[0:29] We're gonna Whoa, that is really loud.
[0:31] I'm sorry. We're going to get ready here
[0:33] in just a minute. If everybody can uh if
[0:36] you want to drink the restroom, we'll
[0:38] get rolling here in just a couple
[0:40] minutes.
[1:17] Okay. Can everybody hear me? Okay, it's
[1:19] good. Um, so I'm going to quickly
[1:22] introduce myself, uh, do some
[1:24] housekeeping information, and then I'm
[1:26] going to hand it off to Commissioner
[1:27] Rossman. Uh, my name is Will Hunt. I'm
[1:30] the director of planning, GIS, and
[1:32] community development. Um, I welcome
[1:34] everybody here this meeting. We're
[1:36] really anxious to hear the information
[1:37] that we're going to have tonight. Um,
[1:40] the planning commission has been having
[1:41] this as a regular topic here uh on the
[1:44] planning commission agendas since
[1:46] earlier this winter and uh, you know, we
[1:50] were able to get this organized and uh,
[1:52] Commissioner Rossman will go into a
[1:53] little bit deeper background of what's
[1:55] been going on. So, we really appreciate
[1:57] everybody coming out. Hopefully, it
[1:59] seems like there's a lot of food, so
[2:01] make sure we grab some food. Um, just
[2:04] for some housekeeping, the way that you
[2:05] came in is the way that you come out.
[2:08] Um, and so the only exit would be there.
[2:10] There is this exit that that is locked
[2:13] to go out this way. Um, and back out the
[2:16] same village you came in. There's
[2:18] restrooms downstairs and upstairs. So,
[2:21] if you go down the steps to the right
[2:23] about halfway down the hall, there
[2:24] should be restrooms and similar on the
[2:26] second floor upstairs. Um, if you do
[2:29] have any questions, you can grab any of
[2:31] us uh and help you get to those
[2:33] locations. But, um, again, I'm going to
[2:35] introduce Commissioner Rossman. He's
[2:37] going to do some opening remarks and
[2:39] then we'll get this presentation
[2:40] rolling. So, thank you.
[2:44] » Thank you. Welcome. I just I guess first
[2:46] I'll start on how we got here. uh a
[2:48] couple year year and a half ago uh I was
[2:51] a little concerned about solar energy,
[2:54] wind energy
[2:56] and the destruction that's done to our
[2:59] land and our forest and I got in contact
[3:03] with Commissioner Mcclinko.
[3:07] I got in contact
[3:09] with Commissioner Mcclinko from Bradford
[3:12] County who happens to be the chair or
[3:15] the president of the America's Rural
[3:18] Energy Coalition. It's not a lobbying
[3:21] group. It's a group that was put
[3:22] together to protect land owners from the
[3:26] gas leases, I believe. So, with that,
[3:28] I'm going to introduce Doug so he can
[3:30] tell you more about the ARC and we'll
[3:33] get moving on here.
[3:37] Thanks Bob and thank you uh Potter
[3:41] County for hosting this tonight. It's
[3:42] pretty important but ARC is actually an
[3:44] education organization. We're in 11
[3:47] different states across the the United
[3:49] States from California all the way to
[3:52] Ohio. We have people, you know, from DC
[3:55] that are in it, Louisiana, Texas. Um so
[3:59] what we do is we educate and we support
[4:02] all energy. you know, I'm basically
[4:04] everything below. You know, I'm not a
[4:06] big fan of solar or windmills. However,
[4:09] I'm a private property rights guy. So, I
[4:11] would completely defend somebody's um
[4:15] desire to put anything on their
[4:16] property. So, um but you know, it's it's
[4:20] interesting, too, if I could just take a
[4:21] minute. Um you mentioned solar and wind.
[4:25] You know, I just went to one of the best
[4:26] conferences I've ever gone to. And
[4:28] there's going to be a fellow come here,
[4:30] uh, Justin Mason here shortly, and we as
[4:34] commissioners in Pennsylvania taxing is
[4:37] I'm not a tax guy either. However, um,
[4:40] our our windmill in in solar, what we
[4:44] what we're allowed to tax here in in
[4:46] Pennsylvania is peanuts to other part
[4:48] other states. It was the the uh
[4:50] conference I went to had 30
[4:52] commissioners from uh I can't remember
[4:54] how many states, but but in Bradford
[4:57] County, a windmill is 400 bucks a year.
[5:01] That's what that's what you can tax. But
[5:03] today, we're here to talk about nuclear.
[5:05] And this to me is pretty exciting. I
[5:07] think that you guys are going to be
[5:08] talking about a little bit about storage
[5:10] and other things. I think knowing you
[5:12] guys, you'll be able to answer all our
[5:13] questions on nuclear or most of them.
[5:16] And what's really cool about today is
[5:18] the data center conversation, you know,
[5:21] with the I think they're co-generation
[5:23] plants, the smaller nuclear pods that
[5:25] they're I don't know if there'll be a
[5:27] lot of discussion there, but nuclear is
[5:29] going to come to the front of come to
[5:31] the forefront of energy, you know, next
[5:34] to a gas well. Give me a good
[5:35] oldfashioned nuclear cooling tower and
[5:37] I'm good. So, um, with that, uh, Bob,
[5:40] who would, uh, who we got up next? We
[5:43] got a Andrew. Okay,
[5:47] we like to thank you guys for coming,
[5:49] too. I mean, this is uh I've been
[5:51] looking forward to this. It's going to
[5:52] be pretty interesting. So, here you go.
[5:56] » Thank you, Doug.
[5:58] I am very wow, I don't need to use my
[6:02] teacher voice. I am very happy to be
[6:05] here. My name is there on the screen,
[6:08] Marilyn Dunzik Galer. I'm actually a
[6:10] professor of nuclear engineering at
[6:12] Idaho State University where I also run
[6:16] our little reactor facility. But the
[6:18] reason I really wanted to be here
[6:20] tonight is because I grew up in
[6:23] Pennsylvania in Dolphin County. I have
[6:26] family in Elisburg, not that far away.
[6:30] Pennsylvania is is in my roots and
[6:32] nuclear is in my heart. So the
[6:35] combination was bound to happen. So, I
[6:39] just want to give you an overview of who
[6:42] ANS is because I'm here as a member of
[6:46] the American Nuclear Society.
[6:49] I don't do this on a professional basis.
[6:52] I'm just passionate about nuclear. And
[6:54] like many professions, uh, the American
[6:58] Nuclear Society is my professional
[7:01] organization.
[7:03] Button down. Got it. Okay. Uh, how do I
[7:09] do this part?
[7:11] A little bit about the American Nuclear
[7:13] Society.
[8:19] You don't need to be a nuclear nuclear
[8:22] professional to join ANS. But that's a
[8:26] little bit about who we are and what we
[8:27] do.
[8:29] Like I said, many professions have a
[8:31] professional society. But ANS is the
[8:35] dominant the leading organization for
[8:38] nuclear science and technology.
[8:41] Many of you will have heard of the Adams
[8:43] for Peace speech that President
[8:45] Roosevelt gave to the United Nations in
[8:48] the 50s. The ANS was created to help
[8:52] foster that idea of using this newfound
[8:56] nuclear information to benefit people.
[9:02] So, we do again what many associations
[9:04] do. Um, we have publications that
[9:08] highlight the work that's going on in
[9:10] the industry, develop standards for the
[9:12] industry. We have meetings and
[9:14] conferences that allow us as
[9:17] professionals to stay up to date with
[9:20] what's happening in the industry, but
[9:21] also present our own work.
[9:25] We try to support the upand cominging
[9:28] nuclear professionals with scholarships
[9:31] to students at both the high school and
[9:34] college level and we try to do a lot of
[9:38] public engagement and that is part of
[9:41] why we are here today
[9:44] about 12,000 members not only in the US
[9:48] uh we have many international members
[9:50] even though the name of our society is
[9:52] the American nuclear society.
[9:55] We have also organizational members. So
[9:58] an entire organization will become a
[10:01] member and default the employees of that
[10:03] organization would be a member. We hold
[10:06] conferences. We um have organized
[10:10] ourselves in professional divisions
[10:14] because if you say nuclear there are a
[10:17] lot of subd disciplines. For example,
[10:19] one division might focus on operating
[10:22] nuclear power plants. Another division
[10:25] might better go on uh the use of medical
[10:29] isotopes. A whole different animal. So,
[10:32] we have those divisions.
[10:35] All right. What I want to do tonight is
[10:38] to answer a few questions that I pose
[10:41] and then hopefully answer all those that
[10:43] you'd like to pose. The first is why
[10:46] would you even consider nuclear
[10:48] engineering?
[10:50] Well, one motivation that many
[10:53] proponents of nuclear have is that they
[10:57] want a reliable method of producing
[11:00] electricity that doesn't emit carbon
[11:02] dioxide. And nuclear checks that box.
[11:06] You can see the statistics for yourself.
[11:09] If you look at the entire life cycle,
[11:13] not just while the power plant is
[11:15] operating, but from cradle to grave,
[11:19] well, nuclear is pretty good. It's
[11:22] actually even better than hydro power or
[11:26] solar
[11:27] PV photo voltaic. You don't typically
[11:31] hear about that because people just talk
[11:33] about what's happening while it's
[11:35] operating. Not all that was required to
[11:38] mine the mineral you need and process it
[11:40] and and transport and then what you have
[11:44] to do after you dismantle the plant.
[11:48] So you can see on the right of the slide
[11:51] what we have in the US in terms of
[11:55] distribution of where our electricity
[11:57] comes from.
[11:58] We are at about 18% nuclear. Not
[12:02] surprising to you, I'm sure, is that the
[12:04] majority is fossil fuel, natural gas,
[12:07] and coal. And then about 24% renewables.
[12:15] Oops, I forgot.
[12:19] Another reason to consider nuclear is
[12:21] the increasing demand for electricity.
[12:24] I'm sure you've all been hearing about
[12:26] data centers and how they are energy
[12:30] sponges and if you send all the
[12:33] electricity to them, what about you at
[12:35] home? Where does that power come from?
[12:38] And many of the AI companies are looking
[12:41] for ways to support the energy
[12:45] infrastructure to the extent that for
[12:48] example uh AWS Talon has proposed and
[12:54] promised essentially an $18 billion
[12:57] power purchase agreement for Susuana
[13:00] nuclear power plant here in
[13:02] Pennsylvania. That's big dollars.
[13:05] Microsoft has a 20-year power purchase
[13:08] agreement to open the unit of free mile
[13:11] island that operated until that that
[13:14] many years ago. They are renaming it
[13:17] crane clean energy center.
[13:21] Then things like
[13:23] directives from the government,
[13:25] governmental New York said, "Okay, our
[13:29] authority develop five gigawatts of new
[13:32] nuclear
[13:34] upstate in New York." If you're not real
[13:37] comfortable with these megawatt numbers,
[13:40] don't worry. I'll give you some
[13:41] comparisons in a minute to get a feel
[13:43] for how big or little that is.
[13:46] And also uh since President Trump
[13:50] started in his second term, he put out
[13:53] executive orders specific to nuclear
[13:56] trying to uh move the industry along,
[14:00] get uh new nuclear plants filled, maybe
[14:04] advanced designs,
[14:06] but he wants 10 large new reactors under
[14:09] construction by 2030.
[14:12] So, lots of movement in the nuclear
[14:14] energy sector. Another reason why you
[14:17] might consider nuclear is jobs
[14:21] for a typical thousand megawatt plant.
[14:25] And again, hold on. I'll give you some
[14:27] context for those numbers in a bit.
[14:29] You're talking 715 well-paying jobs,
[14:33] average salary shown there of about
[14:36] 100,000.
[14:38] And not just the people who work at the
[14:40] plant, but the supporting industry, you
[14:43] know, the places that manufacture the
[14:46] components or manufacture the fuel, all
[14:49] of that infrastructure, they are good
[14:51] paying jobs. And ironically, for a
[14:55] technical field, 34% female workforce.
[15:00] I went to graduate school in nuclear
[15:02] engineering and I am very used to being
[15:06] the only female in the group to the
[15:09] point where when I'm in a big room with
[15:11] a lot of women I feel a little nervous.
[15:13] So that really is an unusual statistic.
[15:19] There's some more example of salaries
[15:21] across different
[15:24] supporting roles for a nuclear power
[15:26] plant. very healthy.
[15:30] So that's the why you might consider.
[15:33] Let's look at the nuclear industry. Now
[15:36] in the US there are 94 reactors you see
[15:40] in the left and they are at 53 plants.
[15:45] So one plant might have more than one
[15:47] reactor at the site.
[15:51] There will be number 95. I keep trying
[15:54] to use the pointer but it doesn't show
[15:56] up here. Number 95 will be in Michigan
[16:01] Palisades plant which is shut down. It's
[16:04] going to be restarted. Three mile island
[16:07] unit one I just mentioned will be 96 in
[16:11] Dwayne Arnold in Iowa. These are all
[16:13] plans that operated for decades. They
[16:15] were my apologies. They were shut down
[16:18] but are going to be reopened because of
[16:21] the value of of this infrastructure and
[16:24] the fact that we can get this energy uh
[16:28] reliably
[16:31] and not release CO2.
[16:34] On the right I find this plot sort of
[16:37] interesting. The different colors
[16:39] indicate where the majority of
[16:42] electricity comes from. So, I mentioned
[16:44] I was from Idaho and while home is still
[16:48] Pennsylvania to me, my kids were raised
[16:51] there. So, that's home now. But in that
[16:54] northeast area, sort of turquoise color,
[16:57] we are very lucky to have hydro power
[17:00] and so our power bill is pretty low. The
[17:02] other colors correspond to gas, that
[17:06] dark blue, coal in that sort of dark
[17:09] purple color. Wind in couple of the
[17:12] plain states, nuclear are those orange
[17:15] states.
[17:19] Let's focus in just a little bit more
[17:22] because it's kind of hard to see where
[17:23] you might fit in. Uh, you're
[17:26] Pennsylvania is in the dominant gas
[17:29] mode, but you might be surprised to know
[17:32] that while you're dominated by gas,
[17:35] you're still 35% nuclear. Did you know
[17:38] that? Kind of surprising. This is for
[17:41] the PJM interconnection.
[17:44] And of course, after nuclear, there's
[17:47] the gas.
[17:52] In neighboring New York, 41% electricity
[17:56] is nuclear in upstate New York. That's
[18:00] uh from ISO instead of PJM.
[18:05] Now, these plants I'm talking about, the
[18:07] 94 and soon to be uh 97, they go into
[18:12] the large category. They're all about a
[18:14] thousand megawatts electric. All right.
[18:16] Now, here's my way of giving you a feel
[18:19] for how big that is. a thousand megawatt
[18:23] electric plant could
[18:26] support
[18:28] the power needs for a rather large city.
[18:32] We're talking um 700,000 homes, for
[18:37] example, plus the associated businesses.
[18:41] That's a lot of energy.
[18:44] What's happening as we move forward is
[18:46] we'll still have some large plants. They
[18:48] have a a role and they are the backbone
[18:51] of our current industry. But we're
[18:53] seeing a lot of development with smaller
[18:56] reactors.
[18:57] From the right, a small reactor is
[19:00] considered about a few hundred megawws
[19:04] electric. So about a third. Then there's
[19:07] mini about tens of megawws. And then
[19:11] micro, which is just a few microw. So
[19:15] these have potential to do things
[19:18] differently than the big plants because
[19:22] they're more flexible. They're smaller
[19:25] and they can be used for things other
[19:27] than making electricity. So right now
[19:30] our large plants, they make electricity
[19:33] period. But the idea is that some of the
[19:36] advanced designs are going to be
[19:38] flexible enough to do things like make
[19:41] hydrogen if we ended up using hydrogen
[19:44] fuel cells for transportation or maybe
[19:47] used for process heat. An example there
[19:50] is Dowo Chemical. You probably all heard
[19:54] of Dowo Chemical. They have a plant in
[19:57] southern Texas where they process uh
[20:00] petroleum and and make the chemicals
[20:03] that they do right now. They burn fossil
[20:06] fuel to make the heat that they need to
[20:09] do the process. They would like to not
[20:11] burn that fossil fuel. And so they've
[20:14] contracted with a company called X
[20:16] Energy to build a small reactor for
[20:20] them. So they have that electricity
[20:25] Obviously, we talked about electricity
[20:28] use, but the process heat is something
[20:32] you don't hear about, but it's a big
[20:33] deal. Uh, making concrete, steel,
[20:37] even desalinating water, uh, are uses
[20:41] for nuclear that you don't hear much in
[20:44] the news, but are, uh, big energy needs.
[20:53] How many have heard the term small
[20:55] modular reactor? Anybody? Handful of
[20:58] you. Okay. So,
[21:01] the reason I asked because I said yes,
[21:03] small is a few hundred watts, but you'll
[21:06] often hear hear that middle word modular
[21:10] and it is significant in a lot of ways.
[21:13] For example, these reactors are being
[21:16] designed and demoed right now and in the
[21:20] near future. When they're ready for
[21:23] production at a high level, they're
[21:25] going to be factory built, partly free
[21:27] prefabricated.
[21:29] And that may sound like, eh, so what?
[21:33] Well, the thing is that all of the
[21:35] existing power plants in the US were
[21:38] built onsite and a lot of unique
[21:41] components and made it really expensive.
[21:44] So, the idea is let's get out of that
[21:46] bad loop. Uh, let's make multiple units
[21:49] that are all the same and they all fit
[21:51] together and they all use the same parts
[21:54] because when you go from one plant to
[21:56] another in the US, there are differences
[21:58] among every single plant.
[22:01] So, a little bit simple simpler in
[22:03] design than our current plants and
[22:06] enhanced passive safety features. What
[22:10] that means is instead of needing a pump
[22:14] to, for example, push cooling water into
[22:18] a reactor if there's an emergency, why
[22:21] not take the emergency water tank and
[22:25] put it at a higher elevation than the
[22:28] reactor? So if you need it, it'll just
[22:31] flow in by gravity feed. You don't have
[22:33] to pump it. So there a lot more passive
[22:36] features in these designs.
[22:38] More flexibility for financing,
[22:42] sighting, sizing, and what they actually
[22:44] will be used for. And again, hopefully
[22:47] reduced construction cost based on the
[22:50] factory construction.
[22:53] Flexibility and scalability refers to
[22:57] where it goes, how you use it. If you're
[23:00] considering a remote community or a
[23:04] country that doesn't have the big
[23:06] infrastructure you need for electricity
[23:08] transmission, you can't really flood
[23:11] that area with a thousand megawws.
[23:13] Electric ladies couldn't accommodate
[23:16] that. But maybe they could accommodate a
[23:18] few tens or a few hundreds megawatts. So
[23:21] there are ways that small reactors can
[23:24] meet needs the big reactors really
[23:26] can't.
[23:28] The military, for example, the army in
[23:31] particular is working to develop a micro
[23:35] reactor, just a few megawws
[23:38] for remote deployment. Well, things like
[23:43] military bases in Alaska, for example,
[23:46] where now they basically burn diesel.
[23:49] They have huge generators. They burn
[23:51] diesel fuel. Um when they uh we send
[23:54] troops overseas, especially when we were
[23:56] in the Middle East, they took along
[24:00] their diesel generators and the huge
[24:02] tanks of diesel fuel really inefficient
[24:05] and and vulnerable. So they're looking
[24:07] for can we get a little reactor that is
[24:09] mobile and we can take it with us.
[24:13] And then as a community would grow,
[24:16] let's say a small village type area, as
[24:19] their demand increases, you just add
[24:22] another unit. That's the modular aspect.
[24:25] You deploy one and when you need it, you
[24:28] deploy a second one and they all use the
[24:30] same infrastructure and have the same
[24:31] design manufacturer.
[24:35] Much more efficiency is potentially
[24:37] available with these designs in one
[24:40] sense. um efficiency because they can
[24:44] produce uh gas at a higher temperature
[24:47] than our current reactors. And if you
[24:49] ever study ther thermodynamics,
[24:52] basically the higher the temperature you
[24:54] can get to, the more use you can get out
[24:56] of that heat. And also these new designs
[25:00] are being
[25:02] made such that they can easily couple
[25:05] with wind and solar that you know
[25:09] fluctuate in their availability. Our
[25:11] current plants they're best operated
[25:14] full power non-stop for two years. I'm
[25:18] not kidding. Two years. But that doesn't
[25:21] allow for the fluctuation of wind and
[25:23] solar. And so the newer designs are
[25:25] going to be able to accommodate that a
[25:27] little bit better.
[25:30] Very interestingly, um, one of the
[25:33] efforts in deploying new reactors in
[25:36] order to take advantage of that
[25:38] infrastructure to transmit energy,
[25:41] they're using sites that were formerly
[25:43] coal plants. And the first one will be
[25:46] in Keer, Wyoming, which is neighboring
[25:50] to Idaho. I've actually driven through
[25:52] Chem a couple times. They're going to be
[25:54] building a plant there. The DOE put out
[25:58] a guide. If you can see that the map,
[26:00] the numbers in the map, that's the
[26:02] number of sites that DOE says, "Yeah,
[26:05] you could put a nuclear here and
[26:07] infrastructure is good.
[26:10] Now what is happening in the reactor now
[26:14] that you have a a view of the landscape
[26:16] of
[26:18] the different types of reactors and how
[26:20] they might be used
[26:22] instead of burning fossil fuel in which
[26:25] bas basically you're you're taking a
[26:28] carbon atom and reacting it with oxygen
[26:30] and that releases heat. Well, we're not
[26:33] burning anything. We're not reacting
[26:36] anything with oxygen. What we're doing
[26:38] is creating a system in which uranium
[26:41] 235 will absorb a neutron. Uranium 235
[26:46] loves neutrons. It's a neutron sponge.
[26:49] In natural uranium, there's uranium 235.
[26:53] Uranium 238. Those flavors. Those
[26:56] numbers 235 and 238. That's the number
[27:00] of particles they have in the nucleus.
[27:02] So they're very similar. They're only
[27:04] different by three particles, three
[27:06] neutrons. But that difference
[27:10] is huge in terms of how that atom will
[27:13] behave in a nuclear reactor.
[27:16] So when it absorbs a neutron, it just
[27:19] basically splits apart. We call that
[27:21] fision. When that splitting occurs, a
[27:24] huge amount of heat energy is released.
[27:28] And by huge I mean 200 million times
[27:32] more than oxidizing a carbon atom. 200
[27:37] million times more than you get from
[27:41] fossil fuel.
[27:45] This is actually some nuclear fuel with
[27:48] uranium going into one of the two newest
[27:51] nuclear power plants we have in the US.
[27:54] Bogo 3 and Vogel 4. It's hard to get uh
[27:57] scale here, but this is a fuel assembly
[28:01] going into the reactor vessel. Let me
[28:04] elaborate on that. So, the fuel
[28:09] or nuclear power plants is the size of
[28:13] this little pellet you see on this card
[28:15] here. And there are some more cards
[28:16] there if you want to take them home for
[28:18] show and tell. These are stacked up into
[28:22] really long tubes as shown here. And
[28:25] then the tubes are arranged in
[28:29] um a square type of array. We call them
[28:31] fuel assemblies. These are about 12 to
[28:35] 14 ft tall. And that's because the
[28:38] reactor vessels are really tall as well.
[28:43] I mentioned the 200 million times more.
[28:46] Here are some examples of what I mean.
[28:49] So when I'm teaching at the university,
[28:51] especially my freshman class, freshmen
[28:53] are so much fun.
[28:55] I say, "Okay, if you had this weird
[28:58] habit, I'm sure you have no weird
[28:59] habits, but if you did and it was you
[29:03] like to hang out outside of power
[29:04] plants, I mean, that is a little weird,
[29:06] right? If they hung out outside of a
[29:08] coal power plant, they would have a
[29:11] nonstop
[29:13] train loads of coal coming through 247
[29:18] because the power density so low
[29:22] compared to nuclear. That little pellet
[29:24] on that card
[29:27] would generate as much energy as 1780
[29:32] pounds of coal. That's multiple loads of
[29:36] uh train cars or 150 gallons of oil, 17
[29:42] million BTUs of natural gas. Now, don't
[29:45] think I'm anti fossil. I'm not. I love
[29:48] fossil fuels. They got us to where we
[29:50] are with our standard of living. They
[29:52] helped us build this country and there
[29:55] are great applications for fossil. But I
[29:58] sort of think of it like well think back
[30:01] before the industrial revolution where
[30:04] we burned wood or cow dung or pete
[30:07] whatever it was. The air was dirty. The
[30:10] water was dirty. Standard of living was
[30:12] not good. People died at 35. Right? When
[30:15] we discovered fossil fuels it changed
[30:18] everything. Quality of life improved. um
[30:22] the age of uh expected age dying
[30:26] improved. So my thinking is okay, the
[30:29] next logical step is to even more energy
[30:32] dense nuclear. We'll go there. We'll get
[30:35] there. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but
[30:38] it's inevitable because humans are even
[30:41] though we do stupid stuff once in a
[30:43] while, overall our species is pretty
[30:45] clever. We figure things out.
[30:50] So this little mic this little cartoon
[30:54] is showing you how a typical power plant
[30:57] works. In the US about twothirds of our
[31:00] power plants are of this design where
[31:03] the fuel is inside
[31:06] those long rods I told you about.
[31:09] Diffusion reaction is taking place.
[31:12] Heat's being produced. Water flows by
[31:15] that fuel to take the heat away. And in
[31:18] this case, the heat is transferred for
[31:21] to a secondary water system where this
[31:24] water is allowed to boil. You when it
[31:27] boils, the steam goes to spin the
[31:29] turbine that spins the generator that
[31:31] makes electricity. And if you watch see
[31:33] how it lights up the city is, isn't that
[31:36] like I said, we're clever.
[31:39] The reason the water doesn't boil in
[31:41] this first loop is because it's
[31:43] pressurized. You ever uh use a pressure
[31:46] cooker? you know, you clamp that lid on
[31:48] top, that inhibits the water from
[31:51] boiling where it usually would. It gets
[31:53] hotter and hotter. Same idea here. We're
[31:56] pressurizing the water, so it is not
[31:58] allowed to boil, but then the secondary
[32:00] loop is allowed to boil. Now, you could
[32:02] replace this reactor with a coal burner
[32:06] or a
[32:08] natural gas burner. The idea is to make
[32:10] heat, to make steam, to spin the
[32:12] turbine.
[32:15] By the way, because we pressurize this
[32:19] water, the design is very creatively
[32:22] called a pressurized water reactor. Huh?
[32:25] Isn't that brilliant?
[32:28] Okay. So, the fuel goes into the reactor
[32:32] when it's finished giving the energy it
[32:35] can in about four to six years. Four to
[32:38] six years fuel spends in there. It comes
[32:41] out first. It's stored in a pool of
[32:43] water. So, this is a fuel assembly right
[32:46] here.
[32:47] It's in water because there's still heat
[32:51] coming out of that fuel for a while. So,
[32:52] the water serves to keep it cool. And
[32:56] after it cools for a while, it can be
[32:58] stored outside of water and just having
[33:02] natural convective cooling. What I mean
[33:05] by that is okay inside these
[33:10] containers there are doublewalled
[33:12] containers the fuel's inside and there's
[33:14] space
[33:17] between the two containers and if you
[33:20] look here
[33:22] this dark area that's a vent. So what
[33:25] happens is the air between the two
[33:27] canisters gets heated up. It moves you
[33:30] know hot air rises. So the air rises out
[33:33] comes out the top vent and as that
[33:35] happen cool air is sucked in just
[33:37] natural flow and it's sufficient. Uh
[33:40] most power plants have that at this
[33:42] point because the pools I mentioned were
[33:45] never meant to hold 40 or 50 or 60 years
[33:48] of fuel. The federal government was
[33:51] supposed to have taken ownership of the
[33:53] fuel in 1998.
[33:56] Hasn't happened yet. Meanwhile, the
[33:59] plants have to figure out if they're
[34:00] going to keep operating, what to do with
[34:02] the fuel.
[34:04] Here's one example. This is main Yankee
[34:08] nuclear power plant in Maine. There used
[34:11] to be a reactor on this site. There's no
[34:14] reactor anymore. All that's left is used
[34:17] fuel waiting for the federal government
[34:19] to take ownership.
[34:22] Across the country, we have about 90,000
[34:26] metric tons. And that increases every
[34:29] year as new fuel needs to go in, old
[34:32] fuel comes out. I'll give you an idea of
[34:36] how much that is because I always
[34:38] struggle with numbers of trying to
[34:39] envision, well, is that big? Is that
[34:41] small? If you took all 90,000 metric
[34:45] tons of used fuel that we've accumulated
[34:49] from day one of the nuclear industry in
[34:52] the US and you stacked it on a football
[34:55] field, it would only be 12 yards high.
[34:59] And if you compare that to any other
[35:01] type of power production,
[35:03] we're talking not football fields, maybe
[35:06] airplane hangers, maybe many airplane
[35:08] hangers.
[35:10] But again, the federal government
[35:12] obligation to collect the fuel has come
[35:14] and gone. Haven't uh they spent a lot of
[35:17] our tax dollars in the process of
[35:20] supposedly preparing to take ownership,
[35:22] but that hasn't happened either. I
[35:24] worked with a guy who was a real
[35:27] jokester and he used to say, "You know
[35:31] what really burns my butt? Flames this
[35:34] high." And I said, 'Well, what really
[35:37] burns my backside is this situation
[35:40] because our tax dollars are being used
[35:42] and nothing is happening.
[35:47] And remember, you're all practical
[35:50] enough to know that no matter how you
[35:52] produce electricity, there will be
[35:54] waste. It's just simply not possible to
[35:57] do it otherwise
[35:58] in a magic world, maybe. So I want you
[36:03] to look at the numbers not the numbers
[36:05] themselves but to compare them. So if we
[36:09] talk about producing a hundred sorry a
[36:12] thousand megawatts of electricity that
[36:15] were on the same playing field. Wind
[36:19] we're talking 36,000 tons of used
[36:22] blades.
[36:23] And that's making a very generous
[36:25] assumption that all the other components
[36:28] are recycled. They're not, but we're
[36:31] being nice. Coal, 62,000
[36:35] tons of SO2, and that's what goes to
[36:39] make acid rain. I'm sure you've heard of
[36:40] that. And 1,000 tons of fly ash. nuclear
[36:46] 20 not 20,000
[36:48] 20 tons of spent fuel 175 tons of
[36:53] depleted uranium which we'll talk about
[36:55] in a minute of 500 cubic meters of
[36:58] low-level waste solar again we're in the
[37:01] tens of thousands of tons of used panels
[37:04] and one of the things about solar that
[37:07] is a problem is they use metals that are
[37:11] uh heavy metals that are toxic to people
[37:13] and when they get rained on, those
[37:16] metals get into the rainwater, get into
[37:18] the soil, and so they're they're
[37:22] creating a toxic environment.
[37:25] Those numbers in the parenthesis,
[37:27] capacity factors, that's the percent of
[37:30] time that they're actually operating. So
[37:33] nuclear in this country is phenomenal.
[37:36] 93% of the time they are operating
[37:40] compared to wind that's 32, solar, 23.
[37:44] Coal it can operate at a higher than 57
[37:46] but typically they're load following so
[37:49] they vary.
[37:54] I mentioned used fuel what the fuel is.
[37:58] So basically I said oh okay um we have
[38:01] this neat fuel those little pellets goes
[38:04] into the reactor then it goes into a
[38:05] pool. Some of it is going into dry cask
[38:08] interim storage. But in the US, policy
[38:11] is like many countries that that used
[38:14] fuel will go into a deep geological
[38:17] repository.
[38:19] We don't have that um for our fuel at
[38:22] this point.
[38:24] And we refer to all of this as the back
[38:27] end of the fuel cycle. The front end of
[38:30] the fuel cycle is like any mineral. You
[38:32] have to mine it and process it. um and
[38:36] we have to enrich which means naturally
[38:40] U238 comprises
[38:44] over 90%
[38:46] of all actually over 99% of natural
[38:52] uranium less than 1% is 235 but we want
[38:55] the 235 right so we have this really
[38:59] clever process where we convert the
[39:02] natural form of uranium into a gas,
[39:06] uranium hexaflloride.
[39:08] Then we put it into centrifuges.
[39:11] Everybody's been on a margo round as a
[39:13] kid, right? And you spin the margo round
[39:17] and you hang on to the edge and you feel
[39:19] that force pulling you back. Now, if
[39:22] you're the skinny kid, you're going to
[39:24] feel less force pulling you back than
[39:27] the really big kid. He's going to feel a
[39:29] lot more force. Same thing in that
[39:31] centrifuge.
[39:33] The uranium 235 is the skinny kid.
[39:37] Uranium 238 is the big kid. The big
[39:40] kid's going to accumulate around the
[39:42] walls of that centrifuge and they can
[39:46] suck out the 235 from the middle, send
[39:49] it to the next centrifuge and repeat. So
[39:52] eventually we get a higher percentage of
[39:54] U235.
[39:56] That is the front end of the fuel cycle.
[39:59] The actual chemical form of these
[40:01] pellets is uranium dioxide. So we have
[40:04] to convert it a few times in terms of
[40:06] chemical form.
[40:14] I get too excited and carried away.
[40:16] Where is the Here we go. Let's try this.
[40:21] Now I don't know if you caught back here
[40:24] this term recycling.
[40:27] In the US, we just have this kind of U
[40:30] shape. There's nothing in this box in
[40:34] the US. In some countries, they have
[40:36] stuff in that box. France, for example,
[40:39] uh Russia, Japan, to some extent, they
[40:42] will take the fuel and instead of just
[40:44] calling it waste, they will recycle it
[40:47] back into the fuel cycle.
[40:52] And there are some reasons to recycle.
[40:57] Because 96% of what we call used fuel
[41:01] and waste is actually reusable.
[41:05] And when we do that chemical
[41:07] reprocessing, we reduce the volume of
[41:10] waste significantly.
[41:13] 10% in France of their electricity is
[41:16] using this recycled fuel. Why don't we?
[41:20] It's largely policy. Why we don't? And
[41:23] we can go into more detail there, but
[41:26] the reason France does recycle is
[41:29] policy. The reason we don't is largely
[41:32] policy, but also a little bit of
[41:34] economics.
[41:36] And with that, I want there to be plenty
[41:38] of time to have Q&A.
[41:42] And as I'm going back to the university
[41:45] tomorrow to grade final exams,
[41:48] um you can contact Andrew Smith,
[41:50] American Nuclear Society with follow-up
[41:52] questions. Also, my business card is
[41:56] over there on the side table, and I I
[41:58] welcome any followup if you'd like to.
[42:01] What questions have you got?
[42:07] » No, he is.
[42:14] Yeah, not a lobby as he's staff member
[42:16] of American Nuclear Society.
[42:20] » Is that
[42:25] » They just closed on about 1,800 acres
[42:28] for
[42:30] data sets?
[42:31] » Yes.
[42:33] » I didn't realize it was that recently.
[42:35] He's talking about Suspena nuclear power
[42:36] plant has an agreement with Microsoft.
[42:39] So they are planning um to power I just
[42:44] read about this um Andrew it was in the
[42:47] news brief I think this week that
[42:50] there's some agreement between
[42:53] um EJM
[42:55] and
[42:57] Tuscuana and Microsoft because Microsoft
[43:01] wanted to build a reactor and have first
[43:04] first use of the electricity and PJM
[43:06] said nuhuh so they had come up with some
[43:08] agreement I'm not what it is.
[43:12] » Yes.
[43:13] » This is all nice and
[43:20] what what's the vision? What do you what
[43:23] do we expect
[43:25] our future
[43:32] who are the right people that we need to
[43:36] engage? Make sure that we're safe and
[43:40] that we aren't being charged amount for
[43:43] our
[43:45] » All great questions. In terms of the the
[43:48] vision for Potter County, that's out of
[43:51] my jurisdiction. So, I'll rely on one of
[43:54] the commissioners to address that. But
[43:56] in the other uh questions that you had
[43:59] um
[44:01] the
[44:04] company that is planning to build the
[44:06] nuclear power plant will have works with
[44:08] the nuclear regulatory commission that's
[44:10] the regulatory authority to get the
[44:13] appropriately l appropriate licenses to
[44:16] build and operate. Along the line of
[44:19] that process there are many many
[44:21] opportunities for public engagement. So
[44:23] you can learn about what's happening um
[44:26] offer um comment and so on.
[44:31] I have had the uh pleasure of visiting a
[44:34] number of nuclear power plants in the US
[44:37] and without exception what I have found
[44:40] is that the communities in which they
[44:42] are located love their neighbors. They
[44:45] they increase and improve the
[44:47] infrastructure. They provide good paying
[44:49] jobs. the people who work there are
[44:51] generally healthier than the people who
[44:53] work at other industries. Um, so I
[44:58] totally understand your fears. Are you a
[45:00] mom?
[45:02] » Okay. A double mom. I am a mom. When I
[45:06] was pregnant with my children, I still
[45:08] went to work every day. Um, if I thought
[45:12] that my job working with nuclear
[45:14] materials was going to harm my child, I
[45:16] would not have done that. It is really
[45:18] very quite safe.
[45:22] I don't disagree that
[45:26] I think that as we as data centers have
[45:31] moved across the country uh across the
[45:35] country it's it's taken um what we pay
[45:40] for our power it has doubled and tripled
[45:44] and I don't I don't care what kind of
[45:46] kind neighbor that is.
[45:48] » Yeah. if we're paying more that there is
[45:51] no benefit. And and
[45:53] » Yeah, I can't disagree with that. And
[45:55] and that's outside of what I can tell
[45:58] you about nuclear technology. That's one
[46:00] of those things that you would go to a
[46:02] public meeting and say if we don't have
[46:06] to pay more, yes, we want this.
[46:10] » Oh, good.
[46:12] » Please go ahead. Uh the last couple of
[46:14] years in a row, I've noticed maps of
[46:16] Potter County being colored red, meaning
[46:19] that we're in a drought area compared to
[46:21] the rest of the state. Uh could you
[46:22] address the amount of water that is
[46:24] needed for these various types of
[46:25] facilities?
[46:26] » That's great.
[46:27] » Sorry, that's a great
[46:30] um
[46:32] they do take a lot of water. Like like
[46:35] any kind of power plant, the coal and
[46:37] oil plants need water as well for those
[46:40] loops to make the steam. Um, there's no
[46:43] question that water will be used.
[46:46] Nuclear does a pretty good job of
[46:49] reusing water.
[46:52] I cannot give you numbers, but it is a
[46:54] legitimate concern and it would be
[46:56] something addressed during the planning
[46:59] and licensing phases because they would
[47:01] have to say, well, here is where we
[47:03] would get the cooling water. Um, here is
[47:06] what the possible envir environmental
[47:08] impacts might be. But a very good
[47:11] question.
[47:13] Yes.
[47:14] » Yes.
[47:19] » That are being recommended
[47:22] uh for this uh possible facilities.
[47:26] » Commissioner,
[47:27] » The there are none. This is just an
[47:29] educational session that's all because
[47:31] we want to be proactive and not
[47:33] reactive. So So something like this were
[47:35] to come up
[47:40] So to answer your question, do you have
[47:42] anything?
[47:42] » Okay. Well, that's good to know.
[47:43] » Yep.
[47:44] » Thank you.
[47:48] » Well, the joke in the nuclear industry
[47:50] is that 50 years ago it was 50 years
[47:54] away and it's still 50 years away. Now,
[47:57] having said that, a little bit tongue
[47:59] and cheek, um we're getting closer. Um
[48:03] the thing with fusion, well think about
[48:04] fusion is instead of splitting an atom,
[48:07] you're fusing atoms together. This is
[48:10] what happens in the sun in stars. Now
[48:14] put your minds to okay, let's create a
[48:16] star on Earth and contain it. Like get
[48:20] back to me on that. Right? That's the
[48:22] challenge that they've been facing.
[48:24] trying to create the environment and
[48:27] contain it um with the materials and
[48:30] technology we have. But just in the last
[48:33] several years, there was a real
[48:36] significant breakthrough. Up until that
[48:38] point, they actually put more energy
[48:41] into go causing fusion than actually
[48:43] came out, but they actually got to break
[48:46] even where they put in an amount, the
[48:49] same amount came back. But that means we
[48:52] okay we're still decades away from like
[48:56] applying that for power production
[48:58] scientifically. It's exciting. Yeah.
[49:06] And I'll be here uh until the meeting's
[49:09] over. So I'm happy to talk with you
[49:11] oneonone if you like.
[49:19] » Oh, sorry. Um, what is the downside of
[49:23] these modular type units? You're talking
[49:25] about it's cleaner, you know, energy.
[49:29] Um, but bad things do happen. You know,
[49:32] what are the, you know, negatives?
[49:36] I'd say practically speaking,
[49:39] initially, a negative is we don't
[49:41] currently have the infrastructure to
[49:44] manufacture these. That has to be part
[49:46] of what we build up. We know how to
[49:49] build the big ones. Uh we just got two
[49:53] online in in Georgia over the past five
[49:56] years. So developing that infrastructure
[49:58] is I'd say one of the biggest downsides.
[50:01] When we get up to what we say is nth of
[50:04] a kind. Like we've done it for a while
[50:06] then we'll be good. In terms of safety,
[50:09] um they're really much safer. They're
[50:12] going to be expensive because they're
[50:14] new, right? because when you build
[50:17] anything for the first time, it's going
[50:18] to be expensive. Um, but eventually the
[50:20] idea is because they're going to be more
[50:23] or less mass- prodduced, if you will, or
[50:25] or in uh factory produced, the cost will
[50:30] go down with time. So, another con I
[50:32] would say is they're going to be pricey
[50:34] at first. There's and we know that.
[50:37] Yeah. from the back.
[50:46] » You said that um France and Russia
[50:50] recycles their waste.
[50:52] » Yes.
[50:53] » You you you're very knowledgeable on the
[50:56] subject of nuclear power.
[50:58] » Yes.
[50:59] » In a nutshell, can you tell us how they
[51:01] do that and why we don't do it here?
[51:04] » Okay, great question. So,
[51:11] let me think how to say it without
[51:13] getting too technical.
[51:16] So, basically, the fuel comes out. It's
[51:18] still the ceramic in those long tubes.
[51:21] They cut them open. They dissolve the
[51:24] fuel and acid. And then they chemically
[51:27] separate out uranium and plutonium.
[51:30] And they put the plutonium, mix it with
[51:33] new uranium to make what we call mixed
[51:36] oxide fuel. Instead of uranium oxide,
[51:39] it's mixed uranium plutonium oxide. Then
[51:41] they make new pellets, put it back in
[51:44] for one more loop.
[51:47] That is uh limited recycle because they
[51:50] can only do that one time. And after
[51:52] that, um, the isotopics, the the nuclei,
[51:58] uh, get to the point where they're not
[51:59] going to fision as well anymore.
[52:02] So, oh, that's 45 minutes.
[52:06] Excuse me.
[52:12] It is done in France.
[52:15] Let me back up.
[52:16] The US is the only country that has a
[52:19] sort of private nuclear industry. I say
[52:23] sort of because it is so heavily
[52:24] regulated that
[52:27] um it's practically governmentr run but
[52:30] all other countries it is the government
[52:33] that runs the nuclear industry.
[52:37] It what was that?
[52:41] Well,
[52:43] that's debatable. Um
[52:46] you and I can sit down later and arm
[52:48] wrestle. Anyway, the
[52:52] in France policy is and this was largely
[52:56] um the policy decision as a result of
[52:59] the oil crisis in the 70s.
[53:02] Um they said we do not want to be at um
[53:06] the mercy of these other countries with
[53:09] the resources. We don't have resources.
[53:12] So they said, "We're going nuclear." And
[53:14] government said, "We're going to have
[53:16] this kind of reactor and we're going to
[53:18] reprocess
[53:20] here's tax dollars to make it happen."
[53:23] And that's been that way to this day.
[53:26] Pretty much the same thing with the
[53:27] other countries, Russia, Japan. It's
[53:29] policy decision. In the US, we
[53:35] started in the early days of the
[53:37] industry to reprocess. The thing that I
[53:40] didn't mention here is like I said, I
[53:43] don't want to go so technical that you
[53:45] all fall asleep. That is not the
[53:47] objective.
[53:49] Okay, hold on.
[53:53] I had one of my freshmen this year after
[53:55] the intro to nuclear class I taught them
[53:57] came to me after class and said, "Do you
[54:00] teach other courses, too?"
[54:04] » But but I didn't put them to sleep. I
[54:06] made sure they didn't go to sleep.
[54:09] Okay. So, here's what I didn't elaborate
[54:12] on.
[54:14] If we recycle
[54:17] and we use that 96% of the material I
[54:20] said was reusable,
[54:22] we have to have a different kind of
[54:24] reactor to put that fuel back into. We
[54:26] can't use the type of reactors we have
[54:28] now. So, the idea is we take I'm call
[54:33] them thermal reactors. Bear with me. Um,
[54:36] all of our reactors are thermal
[54:37] reactors.
[54:39] We would need a different style reactor
[54:42] to make full use of all the material you
[54:45] recycle out. We don't have one. Um, and
[54:49] the technology isn't as advanced.
[54:54] So, in early days, we thought we're
[54:57] going to have to go with that advanced
[54:59] reactor design. We call it a fast
[55:00] reactor
[55:02] because we thought uranium resources are
[55:04] limited. So, we're going to have to
[55:06] recycle. We're going to have to put it
[55:08] back into a fast reactor. Well, like so
[55:10] many um minerals
[55:14] and other natural resources, the more
[55:16] you look, the more you find. So, we
[55:19] thought uranium was rare. It's so not
[55:21] rare. I mean, there's some in the dirt
[55:23] in your backyard. I kid you not. So we
[55:26] kept finding more and more and then we
[55:28] realized, oh, we don't really need to
[55:31] recycle.
[55:33] Meanwhile, the first reactors were
[55:35] actually built for the US Navy for subs
[55:39] because we're in the Cold War, right,
[55:42] after World War II. And subs were
[55:44] supposed to be stealth, but they were
[55:46] using diesel fuel.
[55:50] I mean, how stealth is that, right? And
[55:52] so they said, "We need to be stealth."
[55:54] So they designed a nuclear reactor that
[55:56] can stay underwater forever. And then
[55:59] what happened was okay, Admiral Rickover
[56:02] was the person who led that project.
[56:04] Admiral Rickover and his guys, they
[56:06] designed this cool reactor design. Let's
[56:07] take that design, just make it bigger
[56:09] for our nuclear power plants. Yeah,
[56:11] eventually we'll go with faster
[56:12] reactors. But we never did because we
[56:15] kept finding more uranium. Did that kind
[56:17] of answer your question?
[56:22] » Yeah.
[56:28] Yes.
[56:32] » Yes.
[56:34] » And is it the rich that's in the That's
[56:38] in the
[56:38] » In the middle.
[56:40] » Yes.
[56:40] » And suck that out.
[56:41] » Yeah. They suck that out and then they
[56:43] send it to the next centrifuge in the
[56:45] next
[56:46] » Get more and more.
[56:47] » Exactly.
[56:49] Exactly. And how how do you know
[56:53] what is
[56:55] » You know there are calculations you do
[56:57] you take my nuclear fuel cycle course
[56:59] and you learn how to do those.
[57:01] » Okay.
[57:04] » Yeah.
[57:07] » Go ahead Barney.
[57:12] the um power plants that I'm familiar
[57:15] with are on large bodies of water and I
[57:17] just wonder what's the difference in
[57:19] consumption for the new one versus what
[57:21] we have now.
[57:23] » Great question. Some of the designs will
[57:27] use water, some will not. Um, some of
[57:30] them are gas cooled,
[57:34] some are molten salt cooled, and some
[57:38] will use water. It really varies. But
[57:41] you're right, big power plants because
[57:43] of that cycle that I showed you use good
[57:46] bit of water. And so it's not a um,
[57:51] what's the word? coincidence that
[57:53] they're always going to be by a body of
[57:55] water with one exception in Arizona. Um,
[58:00] Palo Varity nuclear power plant is out
[58:03] in the middle of the freaking desert. I
[58:05] kid you not. I mean, it's nowhere, man.
[58:08] I've been there. And they use recycled
[58:12] water from the city of Phoenix. They
[58:14] recycle the sewage water and use it to
[58:17] cool their planet, which I think is it's
[58:20] a wonderful idea.
[58:22] Yeah, go ahead.
[58:26] » The the I'm here because I like to talk
[58:29] about nuclear and
[58:32] » So
[58:34] I'm a member of the American Nuclear
[58:36] Society and it was through the American
[58:40] Nuclear Society and County Commissioners
[58:43] that I'm here.
[58:50] I love nuclear.
[58:52] » That's the motivation.
[58:54] » The motive is to be prepared in case
[58:57] something comes in, especially with
[58:59] these data centers in here. She talks
[59:01] about these micro plants. We want to be
[59:03] prepared for what what's coming. So,
[59:05] this is what this is about.
[59:10] If you were to prioritize
[59:14] American Nuclear Society's objectives
[59:17] and put that in place for the future of
[59:21] a relationship between American Nuclear
[59:23] Society and Potter County,
[59:25] » Does that look like a reactor and energy
[59:28] generation or does that look like
[59:31] storage?
[59:33] » So, the American Nuclear Society doesn't
[59:35] build or operate anything.
[59:39] relationship with a nuclear presence in
[59:42] Potter County look like? Does that look
[59:44] like Potter County is building energy
[59:47] facility?
[1:00:05] » Sorry. Um, Andrew Smith, director of
[1:00:08] communications.
[1:00:09] Tracy. Oh, great. Nice to meet you. Uh,
[1:00:12] so we're we're not industry, we're not
[1:00:15] government, there's no project that
[1:00:17] we're aware of, anything like that. And
[1:00:20] and and
[1:00:22] to to address your question on that uh
[1:00:25] while American Nuclear Society while we
[1:00:28] do provide technical scientific uh you
[1:00:30] know expertise uh for communities for
[1:00:33] state tribal uh federal officials we
[1:00:37] don't really address necessarily like on
[1:00:38] the economic side of thing. the the main
[1:00:42] relationship which my colleague Eucha
[1:00:44] here will be addressing next in his uh
[1:00:47] uh presentation is mostly focused when
[1:00:49] it comes to communities on education and
[1:00:52] workforce development and but but I want
[1:00:56] to get back to so I I want to make sure
[1:00:58] I understand your question about you're
[1:01:00] asking about if there is a project what
[1:01:03] role American nuclear society would play
[1:01:04] when it comes to
[1:01:07] » If we were to eliminate American nuclear
[1:01:09] society from the equation.
[1:01:11] » Okay.
[1:01:11] » What does the future of a nuclear
[1:01:13] project look like in Powder County?
[1:01:16] Energy power generation or nuclear
[1:01:19] interim storage?
[1:01:22] » That would that would be up to a
[1:01:25] community uh the state um that that is
[1:01:29] something that uh community the state
[1:01:32] the market industry would would have to
[1:01:35] sort out.
[1:01:38] Sorry for misunderstanding saying a
[1:01:40] question.
[1:01:46] » Make it green.
[1:01:47] » I did push it.
[1:01:48] » Go green. There you go.
[1:01:50] » Anyway, I can't hear very well, so I
[1:01:52] could have missed a lot,
[1:01:54] » But I'm concerned about the water that
[1:01:56] you use when you release it. I assume if
[1:01:59] you're taking it out of a stream, it's
[1:02:01] going to go back in the stream. So,
[1:02:03] you're going to change the temperature
[1:02:04] of the water. You're going to kill the
[1:02:06] wildlife. that's there or to replace it
[1:02:10] with something else. I assume that's
[1:02:12] what
[1:02:12] » Okay.
[1:02:13] » Okay. So, I'm true on that, right?
[1:02:15] » Yeah. So current power
[1:02:19] plants, nuclear power plants, with one
[1:02:22] exception, like I said in Arizona,
[1:02:24] they're all by bodies of water and they
[1:02:27] um have all been permitted, licensed to
[1:02:32] operate the way they do in some cases uh
[1:02:36] locally increasing temperature of of a
[1:02:39] river or the ocean,
[1:02:41] but uh always permitted
[1:02:45] given the environmental situations which
[1:02:47] are all considered in the application
[1:02:49] for operation. I'll tell you a story
[1:02:51] that I love. I have been to St. Lucy
[1:02:55] nuclear power plant in Florida and it's
[1:02:59] right on the Atlantic coast. It takes
[1:03:03] cooling water from the ocean and it
[1:03:05] sends back in. But all power plants make
[1:03:09] an effort to not put the water directly
[1:03:12] back in because of the temperature
[1:03:14] difference. And so they dug this series
[1:03:17] of canals
[1:03:19] so that by the time the water actually
[1:03:21] goes into the ocean, it's it's
[1:03:23] temperate. But the thing is there are
[1:03:27] sea turtles. You know the really big
[1:03:29] like 300 pound turtles. They love warm
[1:03:32] water. So they find their way into the
[1:03:35] canals and they like hang out in there
[1:03:37] like a turtle day spa. And so every day
[1:03:41] one of the guys who works there who is
[1:03:43] out in a rowboat and takes a turtles
[1:03:46] funk into his rowboat and has to take
[1:03:49] him back out to the ocean. He does this
[1:03:51] every day because they've created a
[1:03:53] turtle day spa.
[1:03:56] I'm not trying to make light of your
[1:03:57] question. They all use water and that is
[1:04:00] part of the planning and how they're
[1:04:03] licensed.
[1:04:04] » I've seen that. I know what you're
[1:04:06] talking about.
[1:04:07] » You've seen it.
[1:04:07] » What I'm concerned about is like we have
[1:04:10] a trout fisheries. You're going to
[1:04:12] destroy that. I just want the people to
[1:04:15] know that.
[1:04:16] » The other question has to do with your
[1:04:19] mining, milling, and conversion. Yes.
[1:04:21] And what waste we have there. What we're
[1:04:25] destroying to get it. We're destroying
[1:04:27] something that's growing on that earth
[1:04:30] and until they get it back and replace
[1:04:33] it with something else, we've lost that.
[1:04:35] We'll never get that back.
[1:04:37] » I just want people to know that. I'm not
[1:04:40] opposed to nuclear energy. I just want
[1:04:43] people to know that there's expenses to
[1:04:45] all this.
[1:04:46] » There is. And that's why I'm saying you
[1:04:48] have to look across the entire life
[1:04:50] cycle of a plant. the mining for um the
[1:04:55] minerals for solar panels is much more
[1:04:59] destructive than the mining for uranium
[1:05:01] because of that energy density thing I
[1:05:03] mentioned. So yes, um there is mining
[1:05:07] involved for uranium, but we need to
[1:05:10] mine much less than you need to dig up
[1:05:13] coal, for example. There's no free
[1:05:16] launch, right? But you can improve
[1:05:18] practices. In the US and around the
[1:05:22] world, um they're doing a lot of what's
[1:05:25] called insitue leeching where they don't
[1:05:27] have to dig at all. They just drill like
[1:05:30] a water well drill and they inject a
[1:05:34] solution that dissolves the uranium and
[1:05:36] they suck it back out and you can't even
[1:05:39] tell on the surface there's a mine
[1:05:41] there. So, like I said, um we are a
[1:05:46] clever species. Even though we do dumb
[1:05:49] things, we're going to figure it out.
[1:05:51] We've already figured a lot of it out,
[1:05:53] but I agree with everything you said.
[1:05:55] Uh, yes. I'm a retired teacher from St.
[1:05:59] Lucy County, Florida, and I live in that
[1:06:01] area, and I've been by that power plant.
[1:06:05] The seagrasses are completely gone. The
[1:06:08] sea trout are completely gone. I would
[1:06:12] go fishing and catch 30, 40 sea trout.
[1:06:16] You're lucky to catch one or two. The
[1:06:18] manitude population has decreased.
[1:06:23] and I live and I used to fish in that
[1:06:26] area by that power plant. And just to
[1:06:30] let you know that uh there's been a real
[1:06:33] change in nature like this gentleman was
[1:06:37] concerned about the fish population and
[1:06:41] it could affect people that eat those
[1:06:44] fish. I don't eat fish down there
[1:06:46] anymore. Uh, I live very close to that
[1:06:50] plant and I wouldn't eat any out of
[1:06:53] there. I just want to let you know.
[1:06:55] » Yeah. Well, I appreciate
[1:06:56] » Your local population. I'm visiting up
[1:06:59] here. I'm fly fishing up here. I just
[1:07:02] got up here uh a few days ago and I'm
[1:07:06] glad that I attended uh this meeting
[1:07:08] today. Thank you.
[1:07:10] » Thanks for your comments. It would be
[1:07:12] interesting to learn why the population
[1:07:15] changed.
[1:07:18] Oh, thank you. Uh, on May the 6th of
[1:07:22] this year, UGI Energy Services and Prime
[1:07:25] Data Centers announced a strategic
[1:07:28] partnership to develop one of
[1:07:30] Pennsylvania's largest AI and hypers
[1:07:33] scale data centers in the northern tier,
[1:07:35] one of the three counties up north. I
[1:07:38] understand that they're planning to use
[1:07:40] natural gas at least initially that then
[1:07:42] later transition to nucle nuclear. I
[1:07:46] wondered if the commissioners could uh
[1:07:47] comment on that.
[1:07:50] » I'll definitely toss that all to the
[1:07:52] commissioners.
[1:07:54] » Uh
[1:07:55] we found out about it the same time you
[1:07:57] did. They didn't reach out to us and as
[1:07:59] far as I know, planning director Hunt
[1:08:02] has not heard anything from either of
[1:08:04] them.
[1:08:09] » Thank you. I don't want to get way out
[1:08:11] ahead of our skis here. The question
[1:08:13] was, you know, how did you guys get
[1:08:15] here? Well, we're going to ask you to
[1:08:17] come to Bradford County. You've been
[1:08:19] down in McMullen County, Texas. Um, our
[1:08:22] organization has no paid. Our director,
[1:08:24] Jeff, you know, Jeff, he does this all
[1:08:27] for the love of energy. We're all below
[1:08:29] gas, coal, you know, nuclear, wind,
[1:08:33] solar, but there is no proposed plants.
[1:08:36] We're here tonight just to get educated,
[1:08:38] you know, because there's so much talk
[1:08:40] in the world, like for example, the
[1:08:42] difference between using nuclear for
[1:08:45] gener electric power generation and
[1:08:47] making a bomb. What's the difference? I
[1:08:49] mean, there's I mean, it needs to be
[1:08:50] cleared up. There's so much talk about
[1:08:52] because we've had two uh developments
[1:08:55] with or AI and data centers to go to
[1:08:59] market now um that they've done all the
[1:09:02] putting the properties together and all
[1:09:03] that in Bradford County. But why does
[1:09:06] data centers come here is because of the
[1:09:08] natural gas because we have a large
[1:09:10] electricity um over there that we can
[1:09:13] put up and a lot of the problems with
[1:09:15] our electric rates going up. And I'm not
[1:09:17] defending the electric companies, but
[1:09:19] it's because they just put up new
[1:09:20] infrastructure for our grid and are
[1:09:22] charging us for it and people
[1:09:24] automatically think it's data centers.
[1:09:27] So, I mean, this is a terrific uh
[1:09:29] education. That's all we're here for
[1:09:31] tonight. Um, I commend Commissioner
[1:09:34] Rossman for having you guys here. We
[1:09:36] want to get you over there. I know that
[1:09:38] Jeff has traveled with you guys. We
[1:09:41] learn stuff everywhere we go. I haven't
[1:09:43] I want to get down to Judge Teal. He's a
[1:09:45] terrific guy and to go to that one. I
[1:09:48] couldn't get there. I think you did one
[1:09:49] over maybe in Alabama, maybe
[1:09:52] » Mississippi. Yeah. So, this is this is
[1:09:55] John just all educational. There's none
[1:09:57] coming to Bradford County. There's
[1:09:59] nothing proposed. And one of the
[1:10:00] questions just to I mean from the
[1:10:02] beginning of looking for a site the
[1:10:03] completion of the plant with the
[1:10:05] permitting and everything how long are
[1:10:07] you how long are you talking?
[1:10:14] » I'd say probably 20 years from just the
[1:10:16] idea to going through the entire design
[1:10:20] and licensing process construction.
[1:10:22] Yeah. It's not going to happen overnight
[1:10:24] to be sure.
[1:10:25] » Yeah. And I just appreciate it. But I
[1:10:27] didn't want us to get out ahead of our
[1:10:28] skis. And you folks leave here tonight
[1:10:30] think power plant coming. There isn't.
[1:10:32] This is education. We're going to have
[1:10:34] Nebrask County. We're going to invite
[1:10:36] commissioners from the other side of the
[1:10:37] state to come. There's so much talk with
[1:10:40] the small reactors to go with data
[1:10:42] centers to bombs to, you know, they're
[1:10:44] going to allow Iran or rich for energy
[1:10:47] or what we all need to learn. And I
[1:10:50] appreciate you guys traveling here
[1:10:51] because I sure learned too. But just
[1:10:53] don't want to get ahead of our out over
[1:10:54] our skis. That's all. and and uh
[1:10:58] yes uh we're going to move on to the
[1:11:01] next phase real quick and thank you so
[1:11:03] much for your comments on that. We've
[1:11:04] been traveling the country for the past
[1:11:06] couple years engaging with communities
[1:11:07] that are dealing with energy uh you know
[1:11:10] opportunities and challenges uh you know
[1:11:13] oh you can't hear me okay weird
[1:11:18] » Yeah so uh we we've been traveling the
[1:11:20] country for the past couple years
[1:11:22] engaging with communities uh including
[1:11:24] those of the America's Rural Energy
[1:11:26] Coalition uh and uh communities are
[1:11:29] dealing with similar challenges and
[1:11:30] opportunities across the country um so
[1:11:33] this is just strictly you know,
[1:11:35] educational uh and and and nothing more.
[1:11:37] We're not government, we're not
[1:11:38] industry, we're not tied to anything. We
[1:11:40] keep our independence from both of them,
[1:11:43] and we often disagree with the nuclear
[1:11:45] industry on things because we represent
[1:11:47] a workforce uh and teachers and so on.
[1:11:51] Uh we're we're going to take uh uh like
[1:11:54] 10-minute break, but during that time
[1:11:56] period, uh feel free uh uh to pick up
[1:11:59] some uh fact sheets that we have over
[1:12:01] here of stuff. Uh bandanas and pellet
[1:12:03] cards. Uh and also we have a video to
[1:12:06] play. It's five minute video. It's uh
[1:12:08] pretty entertaining. Uh we worked with a
[1:12:11] Simpsons uh writer co-producer uh on
[1:12:15] this. Uh and then we'll reconvene uh
[1:12:19] like uh 6 uh 25 to hear from my
[1:12:23] colleague Jenna on K12 educational and
[1:12:27] workforce professional development
[1:12:29] opportunities that ANS has uh you know
[1:12:32] to offer for schools, for your community
[1:12:34] colleges, for individuals. Thank you.
[1:22:42] All right, folks.
[1:22:44] We're going to go ahead and move into
[1:22:46] the next portion of today's event.
[1:22:51] So, grab your last bites, last bathroom
[1:22:54] breaks.
[1:23:00] All right, we're going to go ahead and
[1:23:02] get started here.
[1:23:04] So, my name is Uchenna Azbe. I'm also at
[1:23:08] the American Nuclear Society. I'm the
[1:23:10] senior manager of STEM programs. So, my
[1:23:13] whole job focuses on K12 education and
[1:23:16] partially workforce development. Uh we
[1:23:20] have a suite of K12 programs which I'll
[1:23:22] introduce and talk a little bit about.
[1:23:25] Um, and then after my presentation, we
[1:23:27] actually have a demo of nuclear energy.
[1:23:30] Uh, I've got a radioactive source over
[1:23:32] here, which is very safe. You don't have
[1:23:34] to worry. It's, this is a demo that I do
[1:23:36] with elementary and middle school kids.
[1:23:38] Um, but you'll be able to see radiation
[1:23:41] with your naked eyes. So stay tuned for
[1:23:44] that.
[1:23:46] So before I start, we just want to go
[1:23:48] over the goals of ANS's STEM programs.
[1:23:52] And actually before I even do that, and
[1:23:54] I love the questions that were coming in
[1:23:56] uh after Marylu's presentation, and I'll
[1:23:59] tell you all what I tell students when I
[1:24:01] go and talk to them. I'll present some
[1:24:03] information, but I encourage you to go
[1:24:06] and do your own research. Go look up
[1:24:09] sources about nuclear energy and nuclear
[1:24:11] science. Look at what communities that
[1:24:13] have had nuclear come into their
[1:24:15] community. What have what they've said
[1:24:16] about it. Look up the pros and the cons,
[1:24:19] the major uh reasons why people have uh
[1:24:24] hesitations around nuclear and form your
[1:24:26] own opinions because there's a lot of
[1:24:28] research out there. Make sure you're
[1:24:29] looking at the source, right? We want to
[1:24:31] look at unbiased sources. Again, ANS is
[1:24:34] an unbiased source. We're just here to
[1:24:36] present information, but I encourage you
[1:24:38] all to go and look up some of these
[1:24:39] things yourself. The goals of my
[1:24:42] programming are three-fold. clarifying
[1:24:45] common misconceptions around nuclear.
[1:24:48] Um, if I go and talk to a class of 20
[1:24:50] students, maybe two or three of them get
[1:24:52] super into nuclear and they want to go
[1:24:54] into the nuclear industry, but all 20 of
[1:24:57] those students are eventually going to
[1:24:59] be members of society making decisions
[1:25:02] about themselves and their families
[1:25:04] voting. So, I want everyone to just have
[1:25:06] a fact-based understanding of nuclear
[1:25:08] science, no matter what your
[1:25:10] relationship to it might be.
[1:25:13] Secondly, uh nuclear science is already
[1:25:16] a large part of our science education
[1:25:20] landscape. If you take physics, if you
[1:25:22] take chemistry, you're going to deal
[1:25:24] with a lot of nuclear science. So, we
[1:25:26] want to build and deploy the resources
[1:25:29] that those contexts use. Um, even inside
[1:25:33] of school, I already talked about
[1:25:34] chemistry and physics class, physics
[1:25:36] classes, but there is the Boy Scouts uh
[1:25:39] nuclear science merit badge. There's the
[1:25:40] Girl Scouts getting to know nuclear
[1:25:42] patch and there are all these different
[1:25:44] contexts in and outside of the classroom
[1:25:46] where students are learning about
[1:25:47] nuclear science. So I'll talk about what
[1:25:50] we've built and deployed but our second
[1:25:52] goal is to build and deploy those
[1:25:53] resources for those students that are
[1:25:55] going to go a bit deeper than just a
[1:25:57] short engagement with either myself or a
[1:25:59] nuclear professional. And finally, you
[1:26:02] want to inspire uh students who do get
[1:26:05] really into nuclear science to pursue
[1:26:08] that interest and if they so desire to
[1:26:11] enter the field. Um I you know we didn't
[1:26:14] talk too much about some of the numbers
[1:26:15] but there's a huge workforce gap in
[1:26:18] nuclear. Uh we have a little bit over
[1:26:20] 100,000 nuclear professionals right now
[1:26:23] and we'll need over 350,000 by 2050 to
[1:26:27] meet projected demand. So we have a lot
[1:26:30] of roles in nuclear that need to be
[1:26:31] filled. Additionally, a lot of people
[1:26:33] assume, okay, if I want to work in the
[1:26:35] nuclear industry, I need a bachelor or a
[1:26:38] master's degree or a doctorate uh in
[1:26:41] nuclear engineering. And we love our
[1:26:43] folks who come with degrees. The largest
[1:26:45] gaps in the nuclear industry are
[1:26:47] actually at roles at bachelors and
[1:26:50] below. So trades people, we need a
[1:26:53] massive influx of trades persons to come
[1:26:55] into the nuclear industry. uh reactor
[1:26:58] operators. That's one of the biggest
[1:26:59] gaps and those are individuals that just
[1:27:01] get a reactor operating license. Uh it's
[1:27:04] come one come all right now as far as
[1:27:06] roles in the nuclear industry.
[1:27:09] Before I get specifically into the
[1:27:11] nuclear science education landscape, I
[1:27:13] want just talk about science learning in
[1:27:15] general. I think it's no surprise to
[1:27:17] folks that science became a lower
[1:27:19] priority all across the country when we
[1:27:22] were in that virtual uh remote learning
[1:27:25] time period in 2020 2021. Uh now that
[1:27:28] we're out of that period and students
[1:27:30] are back in school, science has not been
[1:27:32] seen as a high recovery priority. Even
[1:27:34] before that time period, the United
[1:27:37] States the the science outcomes for
[1:27:40] students in the United States were
[1:27:41] pretty dismal when you look across the
[1:27:43] globe. So we have a lot of gaps as far
[1:27:47] as the level of our science education in
[1:27:50] the classroom.
[1:27:52] How do you counteract those trends? You
[1:27:54] have highquality science teachers in the
[1:27:56] classroom, right? If you have high
[1:27:58] quality teachers, we can start to make
[1:27:59] up that gap. Unfortunately, when you
[1:28:02] look at the when you look at the
[1:28:03] subjects where nuclear science is most
[1:28:05] commonly addressed, physics and ma
[1:28:07] physics and chemistry, uh you'll notice
[1:28:09] that we have pretty atrocious teacher
[1:28:12] shortages. So, this is not a great
[1:28:15] graph, right? Nothing's labeled. It's
[1:28:17] kind of hard to to kind of parse what's
[1:28:19] on the screen here, but if you look to
[1:28:21] the right of physics, which is that
[1:28:23] orange dot, those five gray dots are
[1:28:26] special ed. In this graph are teacher
[1:28:28] surpluses and shortages. So, the most
[1:28:31] egregious teacher shortages are in
[1:28:33] special ed, which is a tragedy in and of
[1:28:36] itself and is very alarming. If you
[1:28:38] eliminate special ed, the worst teacher
[1:28:40] shortages are in physics. And then only
[1:28:42] a few ticks above that you have
[1:28:44] chemistry. So whether it's nuclear,
[1:28:46] whether it's any subject within the
[1:28:48] physics or chemistry landscape, we have
[1:28:51] very acute teacher shortages. And I
[1:28:54] didn't give my background, but I was a
[1:28:55] science teacher for many years in the
[1:28:57] classroom. I've worked in science
[1:28:58] education my entire career. Um, and we
[1:29:02] don't have professionals doing that
[1:29:04] work. There there's there's no way
[1:29:05] there's no way to parse that. It's very
[1:29:08] unfortunate for the teachers that are in
[1:29:10] the classroom. What does quality look
[1:29:12] like? On the right here, you have high
[1:29:15] school classes taught by a teacher with
[1:29:16] a degree in the field. Now, does having
[1:29:18] a degree in the field always mean you're
[1:29:20] a high quality teacher? No. But is there
[1:29:23] a correlation between having a degree in
[1:29:25] the field and being able to teach some
[1:29:27] of the more complex topics in that
[1:29:29] field? Probably. Chemistry and physics
[1:29:32] teachers have the lowest percentages of
[1:29:34] a degree in that field. Right around 40%
[1:29:37] for both of those subjects. That's not
[1:29:39] STEM specific. We have almost 70% of
[1:29:42] math teachers have a degree in the
[1:29:44] field. Over 70% of biology teachers have
[1:29:46] a degree in the field. But when you look
[1:29:48] at physics and chemistry, those teachers
[1:29:50] do not have degrees in the field. And
[1:29:52] very often that leads to a um very often
[1:29:57] when you're dealing with more complex
[1:29:59] topics like nuclear and you don't have a
[1:30:01] degree in the field, it's a lot harder
[1:30:03] to teach that effectively to students.
[1:30:05] And finally, on the right here, we have
[1:30:08] the pipeline of individuals completing
[1:30:11] physics teacher prep programs that's
[1:30:14] been falling. Yes, this graph ends in
[1:30:16] 2019, but we can imagine that it doesn't
[1:30:18] just tick up in 2019. It's actually
[1:30:20] continued to fall. We don't have people
[1:30:22] entering the physics teacher profession.
[1:30:26] So even if you don't consider nuclear,
[1:30:28] if you just consider science in general,
[1:30:30] the level of the the quality of science
[1:30:34] education in the United States has
[1:30:36] tragically not been very high and it has
[1:30:38] been falling particularly in recent
[1:30:40] years.
[1:30:42] How does ANS try to counteract that?
[1:30:44] Here are the specific programs that that
[1:30:46] I help facilitate. U we have about five
[1:30:49] and a half. I'll get to the half one on
[1:30:51] the next screen. Um, but the first one
[1:30:53] is a curriculum called Navigating. And
[1:30:56] everything that I'm talking about is
[1:30:57] provided free of charge, by the way. We
[1:30:59] don't charge students. We don't charge
[1:31:00] educators. We don't charge anybody to
[1:31:02] consume these resources. They're all
[1:31:03] available for free on ans.org. We have a
[1:31:07] curriculum on nuclear science called
[1:31:09] Navigating Nuclear. It's standards
[1:31:10] align. And in case you you don't know
[1:31:13] what standards align means, um, there
[1:31:15] are bodies of educational standards that
[1:31:18] districts and states have to follow. and
[1:31:20] our curriculum is aligned to that so
[1:31:22] that a teacher can say, "Oh, okay. I
[1:31:24] have this standard coming up for my
[1:31:26] chemistry students or my physics
[1:31:27] students. I can very easily take a
[1:31:30] lesson from navigating nuclear and
[1:31:31] integrate that into my into my
[1:31:33] curriculum." Um, we built that with the
[1:31:36] Department of Energy, Office of Nuclear
[1:31:38] Energy, and Discovery Education. We have
[1:31:41] an educator training program where we do
[1:31:43] in-person workshops and virtual webinars
[1:31:46] for educators in order to help equip
[1:31:48] them to teach nuclear science
[1:31:50] effectively. Um those in-person
[1:31:53] workshops are often done at nuclear
[1:31:55] sites so that those teachers can tour a
[1:31:57] reactor or tour a a nuclear um research
[1:32:01] facility after our workshop. Uh Mary Lou
[1:32:04] is one of our common workshop
[1:32:06] presenters. So her and I are often
[1:32:08] teaming up for stuff like this. Um and
[1:32:11] you know training educators as we saw on
[1:32:14] those previous slides is is very
[1:32:16] essential. Even if those educators
[1:32:18] already have a good grasp of nuclear the
[1:32:20] more we can bring up the quality of our
[1:32:22] science educators the better. I don't
[1:32:24] think anybody can argue with that. Um,
[1:32:27] Pathways to Nuclear is our career
[1:32:28] exploration program for helping students
[1:32:31] understand the different roles in the
[1:32:32] nuclear industry, career profiles,
[1:32:35] mentoring, resources in order to enter
[1:32:38] the nuclear industry, etc. Nuclear
[1:32:41] ambassadors is where we train nuclear
[1:32:43] professionals to go out into classrooms
[1:32:45] and do educational outreach. Um, our
[1:32:48] nuclear professionals very often
[1:32:50] understand nuclear science, you know,
[1:32:52] very deeply. But, you know, I have
[1:32:54] nuclear professionals who have been
[1:32:56] running a reactor for 30 years and
[1:32:57] leading, you know, big teams of of
[1:33:00] nuclear professionals. You put them in
[1:33:02] front of a class of 28th graders and
[1:33:04] they're trembling in their boots, right?
[1:33:06] So, we have to train them up in in how
[1:33:07] to do that sort of work. Um, and
[1:33:10] finally, the accelerators program. You
[1:33:11] can think of that as sort of like a high
[1:33:13] school nuclear science club. Those are
[1:33:15] for students who uh have said, "I am
[1:33:18] interested in nuclear. I want to learn
[1:33:19] more. I potentially may enter the
[1:33:21] industry once I leave high school." We
[1:33:23] form local chapters of accelerators
[1:33:26] programs so that they can do some of
[1:33:28] that in-person engagement. Um we have
[1:33:30] those spread, all of our resources are
[1:33:32] spread all across the country. We have
[1:33:34] something going on in all 50 states
[1:33:36] related to uh K12 education. Um but
[1:33:39] accelerators programs are not
[1:33:41] everywhere. So we also have a virtual
[1:33:43] national chapter where any high schooler
[1:33:45] in the country can join the accelerators
[1:33:47] program and get monthly enrichment
[1:33:49] around nuclear science.
[1:33:52] And then that half program I was talking
[1:33:53] about is mentor match where we match
[1:33:56] individuals with mentors who are ANS
[1:33:59] members in order to help them navigate
[1:34:02] learning about the nuclear industry or
[1:34:04] entering the nuclear industry. Um, so
[1:34:06] what I'll do from here is I'm going to
[1:34:07] show a couple more deep dives into what
[1:34:09] those resources look like. We'll do
[1:34:11] questions and then I'll uh take everyone
[1:34:14] over to our demo and I'll talk about
[1:34:15] what you're going to be seeing over
[1:34:16] there.
[1:34:18] So, educator training again, in-person
[1:34:20] workshops and virtual webinars. And one
[1:34:22] of the most underrated resources that I
[1:34:25] think we provide is our library of uh
[1:34:29] educator training webinars. So every
[1:34:31] month we have a nuclear professional
[1:34:33] come on and do a talk on some topic
[1:34:35] within nuclear radiation basics, nuclear
[1:34:38] waste, um, uh, SMRs, right, which you
[1:34:41] all learned about a bit earlier, etc.
[1:34:44] And we have all of those recordings
[1:34:45] available on our website. So if you have
[1:34:47] questions about a particular aspect of
[1:34:49] the nuclear industry, you can go online.
[1:34:51] You can most likely find a a talk from a
[1:34:54] nuclear professional, usually a
[1:34:56] university professor of nuclear science
[1:34:59] going into that topic,
[1:35:02] pathways to nuclear. Again, that's our
[1:35:04] career exploration. Um Mary Louu already
[1:35:07] talked about some of the roles in
[1:35:08] nuclear. Uh you know, every time I'm
[1:35:11] talking to students, they instantly ask,
[1:35:12] "How long do I have to go to school and
[1:35:14] what sort of pay will I get?" And again,
[1:35:17] nuclear has one of the highest uh
[1:35:19] salaries for the role and when compared
[1:35:22] to to similar when compared to similar
[1:35:25] roles in adjacent industries. So it's
[1:35:27] very high paying. We already talked
[1:35:29] about the gap in nuclear. We need a lot
[1:35:30] of nuclear professionals and we're
[1:35:32] seeing that rising interest. Um my role
[1:35:35] is working with elementary, middle, and
[1:35:37] high school students. I've been at ANS
[1:35:39] for about three years and I've seen a
[1:35:42] tsunami of students coming to us saying,
[1:35:45] "Hey, I was going to go into computer
[1:35:47] science and I was going to go into space
[1:35:49] related stuff, but I learned about
[1:35:51] nuclear and I learned about you know
[1:35:53] nuclear energy and it seems like the way
[1:35:56] it uh you know is providing carbon-f
[1:35:58] free energy is kind of saving the world
[1:35:59] and the science is interesting and I
[1:36:01] want to learn more about this. I want to
[1:36:02] go into the industry." So we have our
[1:36:04] pathways to nuclear program, career
[1:36:06] profiles, webinars, etc. to teach
[1:36:09] students about nuclear uh and about the
[1:36:11] careers that are in the nuclear
[1:36:12] industry. Um some of those profiles are
[1:36:15] video-based. Some of those you see here.
[1:36:17] Um and then there's radiochemist on here
[1:36:19] and I want to I want to just mention
[1:36:21] we've talked a lot about nuclear energy,
[1:36:23] but there's so many applications of
[1:36:24] nuclear outside of energy generation.
[1:36:27] There are so many biomedical
[1:36:28] applications of nuclear uh X-ray, MRI,
[1:36:31] all that is nuclear science to some
[1:36:33] extent. Uh so many cancer treatments are
[1:36:35] based in nuclear science. So many
[1:36:38] industry applica uh so many industry uh
[1:36:42] um approaches to industry are based in
[1:36:44] nuclear. It's not only energy generation
[1:36:46] and energy production. Um so we try to
[1:36:49] showcase that wide breath of the nuclear
[1:36:52] industry in our career profiles. Um, and
[1:36:55] then on here you'll see our career
[1:36:56] brochure. This is available virtually.
[1:36:58] We also have physical versions that
[1:37:00] we'll send out. And you can see some of
[1:37:02] the different buckets where those roles
[1:37:04] exist. Um, again top left we have energy
[1:37:07] generation. We also have health care, we
[1:37:10] have aerospace, we have national
[1:37:11] security, you have industrial
[1:37:13] applications. There are so many
[1:37:15] different ways that individuals can
[1:37:16] engage with the nuclear industry. Um,
[1:37:18] and again on that profile, how long you
[1:37:20] have to go to school and how much you're
[1:37:22] going to get paid because as a teacher,
[1:37:24] that's what kids want to know. So, we
[1:37:26] try to put that front and center. Um,
[1:37:28] and then on the back side of that
[1:37:29] brochure, we have a bit deeper dives
[1:37:32] into into what those different sectors
[1:37:34] actually do within the nuclear industry.
[1:37:37] Nuclear ambassadors, those are nuclear
[1:37:39] professionals that will come and do
[1:37:41] events like this, science fairs, town
[1:37:44] halls, etc., trying to teach people
[1:37:46] about nuclear science. Um they lead
[1:37:48] hands-on experiments. They address
[1:37:50] assump negative assumptions about
[1:37:52] nuclear. Um and they help inspire K12
[1:37:54] students to pursue careers. One of the
[1:37:57] more popular resources is the ANS cloud
[1:38:00] chamber. Not going to play this video
[1:38:02] because I'm going to talk about that
[1:38:03] afterwards. And then we're going to
[1:38:04] observe an a we're going to observe a a
[1:38:07] nuclear cloud chamber which I have
[1:38:09] cooking over there on the table. So
[1:38:11] we're a few minutes away from that.
[1:38:14] Um and then everything that we give also
[1:38:16] we try to not only I mean the the cloud
[1:38:18] chamber is just fun but we're always
[1:38:20] trying to educate right so uh along with
[1:38:23] the actual cloud chamber which we deploy
[1:38:25] to any educator in the country free of
[1:38:27] charge thank go you know through through
[1:38:29] grant supported funds we're able to
[1:38:31] distribute those to any teacher who
[1:38:33] requests one but we're also going to put
[1:38:35] a lesson there's a powerpoint around
[1:38:37] radiation and nuclear science that goes
[1:38:39] along with that there's a poster
[1:38:41] explaining what you will actually
[1:38:43] observe in a cloud chamber. Alpha decay,
[1:38:45] beta decay, gamma decay, right? The
[1:38:47] different sorts of radioactive decays
[1:38:48] that might show up there. So, we're
[1:38:50] always trying to educate individuals
[1:38:52] along with some of the more fun things
[1:38:54] that we're doing with uh with students
[1:38:56] and teachers. And then the accelerators
[1:38:58] program, I already talked about that. We
[1:38:59] have those local uh basically nuclear
[1:39:02] science clubs at different high schools.
[1:39:04] Um and we launch those with a series of
[1:39:07] sessions that we plan and then we allow
[1:39:09] the students and the educators to lead
[1:39:11] those themselves. They come to us
[1:39:12] saying, "Hey, I want to visit a nuclear
[1:39:14] power plant," or, "Hey, I would like a
[1:39:15] nuclear professional to speak to my
[1:39:16] class." But we're allowing them to steer
[1:39:19] their own direction and exploration
[1:39:21] around nuclear science with our support.
[1:39:23] Um, we're not out here to change hearts
[1:39:24] and minds. We're not out here to
[1:39:25] convince people to, oh, you should get a
[1:39:27] nuclear power plant or you should go
[1:39:28] into the industry. We're just presenting
[1:39:30] the information and when people want
[1:39:32] more information from a fact-based
[1:39:33] perspective, we try to show up and give
[1:39:35] that. Um and then of course we have our
[1:39:37] national chapter where any high schooler
[1:39:39] in the country can just sign up and
[1:39:40] start getting that monthly enrichment.
[1:39:43] Um and then finally our our curriculum
[1:39:46] which is really kind of the bedrock of
[1:39:48] upon which all of our other programs are
[1:39:51] built. Um very deployed. We've had about
[1:39:54] three million students who've gone
[1:39:56] through that curriculum to date. Uh
[1:39:58] again it's provided free of charge to
[1:40:00] any classroom in the country that wants
[1:40:02] it. Um, and we also ensure that it's
[1:40:04] aligned to the state science standards.
[1:40:07] We're not trying to teach things that
[1:40:09] are already out that are outside of the
[1:40:11] purview of of what that educator wants
[1:40:13] to teach. So when a module comes up that
[1:40:17] requires physics or chemistry uh
[1:40:20] enrichment around nuclear science, we
[1:40:23] try to provide those we try to provide
[1:40:25] those modules and those come from our
[1:40:27] navigating nuclear curriculum. What does
[1:40:29] navigating nuclear actually look like?
[1:40:31] uh we have three parts to it. Um and
[1:40:33] each part is split up by grade band. So
[1:40:35] we have an elementary school grade band,
[1:40:37] a middle school grade band, and then a
[1:40:38] high school grade band. And the three
[1:40:40] actual resources are lesson bundles,
[1:40:43] which are kind of the more um standards
[1:40:46] aligned lesson around a specific nuclear
[1:40:49] topic, whether that be protons,
[1:40:51] neutrons, electrons, whether it's
[1:40:53] exploring energy, um etc. And I'm just
[1:40:57] going through some of the different
[1:40:58] lesson bundles for elementary, middle,
[1:41:00] and high. And here you'll see that we're
[1:41:02] only talking about again energy
[1:41:03] generation but we're talking about
[1:41:05] biomed applications of nuclear right
[1:41:08] there's so many cancer treatments that
[1:41:09] are based in nuclear science we're
[1:41:11] talking about the industrial
[1:41:12] applications in nuclear science trying
[1:41:14] to give a comprehensive overview of of
[1:41:18] the uh of the industry.
[1:41:20] The second thing that we have are
[1:41:22] project starters and those are kind of
[1:41:23] more experiential projectbased
[1:41:26] explorations that students engage in
[1:41:28] after they've learned from that lesson
[1:41:30] bundle. Um, deep space. Uh, anyone
[1:41:34] familiar with Voyager 1 and Voyager 2,
[1:41:36] those probes that were launched? Okay.
[1:41:39] How do you fuel a probe to go 17 billion
[1:41:42] miles from Earth into deep space and fly
[1:41:45] for 40 or 50 years as Voyager 1 and
[1:41:48] Voyager 2 have have been doing? You
[1:41:50] can't do it with solar because once you
[1:41:52] get far away far away enough from the
[1:41:54] sun there is no solar energy at sca at
[1:41:57] at levels enough to power these
[1:41:59] machines. Um can't do it with gas
[1:42:01] because that's going to run out after a
[1:42:02] couple years. Uh you do it with nuclear.
[1:42:05] All of our probes are driven by nuclear
[1:42:07] energy. Additionally our rovers, anyone
[1:42:09] heard about the rovers that landed on
[1:42:11] Mars? Yeah. They incorporate solar
[1:42:14] energy to some extent but they're also
[1:42:16] nuclear driven. Um, nuclear has allowed
[1:42:20] us to explore the frontiers of space as
[1:42:23] well as the frontiers of the ocean.
[1:42:24] Marylu talked about those submarines.
[1:42:26] That submarine with a nuclear reactor
[1:42:28] can stay underwater for nine months at a
[1:42:30] time without breaching. Uh, you put a
[1:42:33] diesel generator on that and I mean all
[1:42:35] your sailors are coughing and hacking up
[1:42:37] after, you know, a couple days, right?
[1:42:40] Uh, so deep sea exploration, aerospace
[1:42:42] exploration, the farthest things we've
[1:42:45] ever created that are out on the fringes
[1:42:48] of the solar system, those Voyager
[1:42:50] probes are driven by nuclear generators.
[1:42:53] Um, so we talk about things beyond just
[1:42:56] power generation, but those project
[1:42:58] starters are ways that students can kind
[1:42:59] of dig deeper and take what they learned
[1:43:01] in those lesson bundles and apply it to
[1:43:03] real world applications. And we really
[1:43:05] want to emphasize the real world piece
[1:43:08] um because we want what we're teaching
[1:43:10] them to be applicable when they actually
[1:43:12] enter society after being students
[1:43:15] whether it's in the nuclear sector or
[1:43:16] not.
[1:43:18] Um more project starters
[1:43:20] radioarmaceuticals
[1:43:21] right there's a whole industry of radio
[1:43:24] pharmaceuticals that are driven by
[1:43:25] nuclear science. Um we talked about
[1:43:27] fusion earlier. I'm hoping it's not
[1:43:30] actually 50 years away because Fusion is
[1:43:31] very exciting, but uh you know, we don't
[1:43:34] have it yet. We're getting there. Um and
[1:43:36] then the final resource that we have, we
[1:43:38] have the lesson bundles, we have the
[1:43:39] project starters, and we also have
[1:43:40] virtual field trips. And that's a really
[1:43:43] good introduction for the industry for
[1:43:46] anyone, whether you're an elementary,
[1:43:47] middle, or high school student, or
[1:43:49] whether you're an adult. Um our
[1:43:50] elementary school one is an exploration
[1:43:52] of nuclear and space. Our middle school
[1:43:54] one is a nuclear power plant, Palo Verde
[1:43:57] Generating Station. And our high school
[1:43:59] one is an exploration of a nuclear
[1:44:00] research facility called Idaho National
[1:44:02] Lab. So these are about 15 20 minute
[1:44:05] long videos that just are deep dives
[1:44:07] into these sort of different aspects of
[1:44:09] the nuclear industry.
[1:44:12] Um so that's on the K12 side. Uh what
[1:44:15] does professional development within the
[1:44:17] nuclear industry look like? Um this is
[1:44:20] not my primary wheelhouse. My colleague
[1:44:22] Dan Goldberg really deals with this, but
[1:44:24] he's not here. So, I'm going to present
[1:44:25] a little bit a little bit of this on his
[1:44:27] behalf. Uh we have a whole suite of
[1:44:30] certificates and courses for training uh
[1:44:34] professionals, people who are not
[1:44:35] students in nuclear science. Some of
[1:44:38] those are for nuclear professionals, but
[1:44:40] I really want to highlight nuclear 101,
[1:44:42] which is really for individuals who
[1:44:44] don't have a background in nuclear and
[1:44:47] who may be interested in entering the
[1:44:49] industry. So you have um people in
[1:44:52] adjacent fields who are interested in in
[1:44:54] getting into nuclear trades people who
[1:44:56] might have been a trades person in
[1:44:57] within electrical or mechanical who who
[1:45:00] now want to engage with the nuclear
[1:45:02] industry most of the time because the
[1:45:04] salaries there are much much higher
[1:45:06] right um so nuclear 101 is a really good
[1:45:08] way to give those individuals uh the
[1:45:10] first kind of foundation in nuclear but
[1:45:14] we also have stuff for individuals who
[1:45:15] are currently in the nuclear industry.
[1:45:17] We have a nuclear licensing and
[1:45:19] regulation course um because licensing
[1:45:21] and regulation is a huge part of nuclear
[1:45:23] uh Marylu talked about the nuclear
[1:45:25] regulatory commission and talked about
[1:45:27] waste right and we're the only industry
[1:45:29] that does this every single gram of
[1:45:32] nuclear waste produced every single gram
[1:45:35] is tracked labeled managed by the
[1:45:38] Nuclear Regulatory Commission. They're
[1:45:40] able to tell where each and every single
[1:45:41] gram of it is. So the licensing and
[1:45:43] regulation around nuclear is extremely
[1:45:45] robust, more robust than any other
[1:45:47] industry and rightly so, right? Uh but
[1:45:51] um the licensing regulatory framework is
[1:45:55] rather complex. So we have a whole
[1:45:57] entire course around that. We also
[1:45:59] talked about the waste, right? Nuclear
[1:46:01] waste is a huge topic sometimes of
[1:46:03] concern from a lot of people and we
[1:46:05] talked a little bit about it today. How
[1:46:06] little waste there is, how manageable it
[1:46:08] is. Um, and again that's something that
[1:46:11] I always encourage people to dig into
[1:46:13] themselves because there are a lot of
[1:46:14] misconceptions around nuclear waste. But
[1:46:16] we also have a course on radioactive
[1:46:18] waste management.
[1:46:20] Um, here are some of the topics that
[1:46:22] nuclear 101 uh digs into history and
[1:46:25] legacy of nuclear, nuclear fundamentals,
[1:46:27] introduction to the nuclear fuel cycle,
[1:46:29] etc. Licensing and regulation. There's
[1:46:32] not only NRC but there's the Department
[1:46:34] of Energy and Environmental Protection
[1:46:36] Agency which are key players in the new
[1:46:38] in the regulatory framework. Um NRC
[1:46:41] licenses safety analysis supports uh a
[1:46:44] whole host of sorry a whole host of
[1:46:46] different things that are relevant to
[1:46:48] the licensing and regulation process
[1:46:49] around nuclear. Um and then that waste
[1:46:52] management it's it's anytime I talk to I
[1:46:55] won't say anytime but very often you
[1:46:56] talk to folks waste is always a question
[1:46:59] right? What about the waste? What about
[1:47:00] the waste? What about the waste? Um, and
[1:47:02] it's one of the most interesting sort of
[1:47:04] aspects of the nuclear uh landscape. The
[1:47:08] way that we approach waste, the how much
[1:47:10] waste there is, how dangerous or not
[1:47:13] dangerous that waste is, and what we do
[1:47:15] with it. Um, it's very very fascinating,
[1:47:18] not only the way that America does it,
[1:47:19] but the way that other countries have
[1:47:20] managed it as well. So, we have a whole
[1:47:22] course on radioactive waste management
[1:47:25] um as well. And then finally, this is
[1:47:28] really for nuclear professionals, but
[1:47:30] I'll, you know, just, you know, give a
[1:47:31] quick overview anyway. The certified
[1:47:33] nuclear professional, uh, that's a
[1:47:35] certification for individuals in the
[1:47:37] industry that showcases their command of
[1:47:42] of nuclear science. Um, so you can see
[1:47:44] some of the eligibility requirements
[1:47:46] there at the top. Um, and then at the
[1:47:48] bottom there's an exam, right? There's a
[1:47:50] course and there's an exam to become a
[1:47:52] certified nuclear professional. And at
[1:47:54] the bottom there you can see kind of
[1:47:55] what the breakdowns of that exam or what
[1:47:58] what the breakdowns of the different
[1:48:00] topics are within that exam.
[1:48:03] Um and then here you can see some of the
[1:48:06] upcoming courses within uh that ANS is
[1:48:09] going to be providing that are coming
[1:48:11] down the pipeline. Right? Business of
[1:48:13] nuclear economics um nuclear safety
[1:48:15] culture risk informed performance-based
[1:48:17] standards. Uh the list goes on. We just
[1:48:20] started providing these courses um not
[1:48:22] too long ago and they've been extremely
[1:48:24] popular. Nuclear 101 has been sold out
[1:48:26] every single time that we've offered it.
[1:48:28] These things are not free, right? The
[1:48:29] K12 stuff is free. These things are not
[1:48:31] free. I'll make that that caveat. Um but
[1:48:34] it's been sold out every time that we've
[1:48:35] offered it. And we've been seeing, you
[1:48:37] know, I've been seeing rising interest
[1:48:38] from the K12 perspective and ANS more
[1:48:40] broadly has been seeing a lot of rising
[1:48:42] interest from professional perspective.
[1:48:44] Um, so there is a lot more engagement
[1:48:46] that's been happening on the nuclear
[1:48:48] front from people who who previously
[1:48:50] were not familiar with the industry.
[1:48:54] Okay, that's the end of my presentation.
[1:48:55] I know I went through kind of quickly,
[1:48:57] but I wanted to make sure I left some
[1:48:58] time for questions as well as some time
[1:49:00] to observe the cloud chamber. So I I'll
[1:49:02] talk about what the cloud chamber is in
[1:49:04] a second, but before I move on and do
[1:49:06] that, let me just see if there are any
[1:49:07] questions in the audience. Yes, sir.
[1:49:43] Can Can you that second question maybe
[1:49:44] we could get him a mic? I didn't catch
[1:49:46] the tail end of that second question you
[1:49:48] were saying about things changing. Could
[1:49:50] you could you repeat that one or Yeah,
[1:49:51] Andrew's gonna get you a mic here.
[1:49:53] » We were taught that that's we were
[1:49:55] taught that that nuclear aging is um
[1:49:59] infallible and From what I've seen in
[1:50:03] recent years, it's not infallible. So,
[1:50:06] can you address the science of the aging
[1:50:09] through n of the decay and you got my
[1:50:12] first part of that?
[1:50:13] » Okay. Yeah, I think you're talking about
[1:50:14] radiocarbon dating there potentially.
[1:50:16] Yeah, I'm going to let Marylu touch on
[1:50:18] that one. Um, and then I we'll get to
[1:50:20] your first question. Go ahead, Maryl.
[1:50:21] Right behind you.
[1:50:23] » Okay.
[1:50:23] » Thank you. But I think reaching out to
[1:50:25] the a science programs and FFA is an
[1:50:28] area that that fits into
[1:50:31] » Mary, you want to take that too?
[1:50:33] » There are Oh yeah, there are so many
[1:50:35] applications in agriculture that it's
[1:50:37] brilliant. I never even thought of that.
[1:50:39] Thank you for that. So dating um with
[1:50:42] radioisotopes.
[1:50:44] It it like any other technology does
[1:50:47] evolve over time. The detectors that you
[1:50:50] use to detect the radiation being
[1:50:52] released improve the statistics you use
[1:50:55] to analyze data improve. And you know
[1:50:58] you can age things across a variety of
[1:51:04] orders of magnitude. A carbon dating is
[1:51:07] specific to anything that was organic
[1:51:11] because we're carbon based, right? And
[1:51:14] the halflife of carbon 14 something on
[1:51:17] the order of like500 years. Don't quote
[1:51:20] me on that, but close enough. Um, so you
[1:51:25] have to consider that something younger
[1:51:29] than that period of time, you won't get
[1:51:31] very good data, but something four times
[1:51:34] the age of that period of time, you'll
[1:51:37] be better. But things that are even
[1:51:38] older like sediments in deep ocean
[1:51:42] floors, you need a whole different
[1:51:44] isotope to use. So I don't know if that
[1:51:47] answered his question, but
[1:51:51] » It's fascinating stuff.
[1:51:55] » Any other questions?
[1:51:59] » I want to comment. Yes,
[1:52:01] » I had so much air time. Apologize.
[1:52:03] » No, no, no. But I was in a previous life
[1:52:07] a high school science teacher and then I
[1:52:10] went back to grad school and became a
[1:52:12] nuclear engineer.
[1:52:16] I feel
[1:52:19] really strongly about empowering K to2
[1:52:22] teachers and ANS has done a lot of
[1:52:25] homework. I've been part of that
[1:52:27] homework and creating these materials
[1:52:30] for teachers. So, if you know anybody
[1:52:32] who's a teacher um or you have kids who
[1:52:36] are in school, I strongly encourage you
[1:52:39] to share this information with them. I
[1:52:42] get it. I mean, if I were a biology
[1:52:44] teacher, um nuclear science would
[1:52:47] terrify me. I just wouldn't know enough.
[1:52:50] That's okay. Um we've created really uh
[1:52:54] tangible materials with, you know,
[1:52:57] objectives and lesson plans. We share
[1:53:00] the materials. We try to make it as easy
[1:53:02] as possible.
[1:53:04] » Yeah. So, if you do have those educators
[1:53:07] or even if you yourself want to, you
[1:53:09] know, review some of those resources,
[1:53:11] ans.orgnuclear,
[1:53:13] that's where you can find all of those
[1:53:15] programs that I mentioned. Again, all of
[1:53:18] it's available online for free. Go and
[1:53:20] you can you can look it up. And then I
[1:53:22] also encourage you all again, like I
[1:53:23] mentioned at the beginning of of my
[1:53:25] presentation, to go out and do your own
[1:53:27] research. I before I came to ANS even as
[1:53:29] a science teacher I knew so little about
[1:53:32] nuclear and I was kind of if you came up
[1:53:34] to me and asked nuclear energy I'd be
[1:53:35] like I'm not too sure maybe sort of and
[1:53:38] it took me a long time of researching to
[1:53:40] realize that wait this technology is not
[1:53:44] only super cool and a lot of fun but it
[1:53:48] gives us energy independence and
[1:53:50] reliable energy it is not releasing
[1:53:52] carbon into the atmosphere so it is in
[1:53:56] some ways
[1:53:57] the future and it is in some ways saving
[1:53:59] the planet. I mean if you look at the
[1:54:01] effects of fossil fuels and greenhouse
[1:54:04] gases on the planet and then you look at
[1:54:05] what nuclear is doing in that landscape,
[1:54:08] it is very significant. Um but I did
[1:54:10] that just looking up things myself and
[1:54:12] trying to find unbiased sources. So I
[1:54:14] encourage you all to do the same. Um and
[1:54:16] then if anyone wants to reach out to me
[1:54:18] specifically to receive resources, a lot
[1:54:21] of these resources I mentioned are
[1:54:22] virtual but we have so many physical
[1:54:24] resources. We have the cloud chamber. We
[1:54:27] have career brochures. We have uh a host
[1:54:30] of different physical things as well. Um
[1:54:32] shoot me an email or even if you just
[1:54:34] have a question or you just want me to
[1:54:35] come visit your classroom or anything of
[1:54:37] that nature or you want a nuclear
[1:54:38] professional to come out and visit your
[1:54:40] classroom or visit your community, email
[1:54:42] me at ueeibbeans.org
[1:54:44] and I'll be happy to to engage in that
[1:54:46] discussion. Um okay, any questions? If
[1:54:49] not, we're going to do a quick preamble
[1:54:51] for the cloud chamber and then we're
[1:54:52] going to go watch some cloud chamber.
[1:54:54] Okay, someone's excited for some cloud
[1:54:55] chamber stuff. Okay. Um, couple minutes
[1:54:57] real quick to contextualize us all and
[1:54:59] what we're about to see. Um, a cloud
[1:55:02] chamber in the full name is the
[1:55:03] visualizing radiation cloud chamber
[1:55:05] because it allows you to see radiation
[1:55:07] with your naked eye. How does it do
[1:55:09] that? Um, I'm a former teacher, so I'm
[1:55:11] going to start asking the audience some
[1:55:13] questions. Uh, if no one answers, I will
[1:55:15] point to people. So, put your hand up.
[1:55:17] All right. Um, when you see a plane
[1:55:19] flying through the sky very very high
[1:55:21] up, what's trailing behind that plane?
[1:55:24] Anybody?
[1:55:26] A contrail. Okay, very good. Um, if you
[1:55:28] have a cold lake and the sun hits it
[1:55:31] first thing in the morning, what do you
[1:55:32] see rising up off of that lake?
[1:55:35] Steam. Very good. Final person. Go get
[1:55:37] somebody new. Uh, if you have a warm car
[1:55:40] and it's winter time, what do you have
[1:55:42] on the windows of that car?
[1:55:46] Condensation. Very good. All of you get
[1:55:48] A's for today's class. Very good. Um,
[1:55:50] what is the similarity in all three of
[1:55:52] those contexts? Cold lake, warm sun,
[1:55:55] cold car or warm car, cold air on the
[1:55:58] outside. The similarity is
[1:56:01] somebody loud.
[1:56:04] Or you have a warm airplane jet in the
[1:56:07] cold upper reaches of the atmosphere.
[1:56:09] What's the similarity in all three of
[1:56:11] those contexts?
[1:56:13] You have a delta of temperature. Delta
[1:56:16] fancy term for a temperature difference,
[1:56:18] right? You have evaporation when a hot
[1:56:20] sun hits the water. You have
[1:56:22] condensation on the window when it's
[1:56:24] super warm inside the car and it's cold
[1:56:26] on the outside. When you have a
[1:56:28] temperature difference, water tends to
[1:56:30] change state, evaporate, condense,
[1:56:33] something of that nature. Okay, we're
[1:56:35] harnessing that same process in a cloud
[1:56:38] chamber. So, you'll notice if you look
[1:56:40] over here, um, and I'll just mosy on
[1:56:43] over, um, I have a hunk of dry ice
[1:56:47] on a styrofoam platter. And I'll pull
[1:56:50] this out so folks can kind of come on
[1:56:51] both sides and look. Um, that dry ice is
[1:56:55] what we are using to create a
[1:56:57] temperature difference
[1:57:00] inside this chamber. Sitting on top of
[1:57:02] the dry ice, I have a radioactive
[1:57:04] source. Okay, you don't have to worry
[1:57:06] about it because again I do this with
[1:57:08] third graders and fourth graders and it
[1:57:10] is actually a thorium mantle that boy
[1:57:13] scouts used to use to light lanterns
[1:57:15] when camping. So radiation is not
[1:57:17] inherently dangerous. Your bones are
[1:57:20] rather radioactive. Bananas are
[1:57:22] radioactive. Um there's radiation
[1:57:24] zipping all through this room and
[1:57:26] sunlight is a form of radiation, right?
[1:57:28] Uh so the radioactive source is on the
[1:57:30] inside. I have rubbing alcohol that I've
[1:57:34] sprayed on the inside of this cloud
[1:57:35] chamber. That rubbing alcohol is the
[1:57:38] cloud. When that rubbing alcohol
[1:57:40] evaporates, we get a vapor on the inside
[1:57:43] of that chamber. We have cold dry ice on
[1:57:45] the bottom and we have room temperature
[1:57:48] part of the chamber up at the top.
[1:57:50] That's our temperature difference. Now,
[1:57:53] what's happening on the inside? That
[1:57:55] radioactive source is releasing
[1:57:56] radiation at all times. Okay? But
[1:57:58] usually it's invisible because
[1:58:00] radioactive particles are extremely
[1:58:02] tiny. When you create this temperature
[1:58:05] difference and you have this cloud on
[1:58:06] the inside and that radioactive particle
[1:58:08] zips through the cloud, it condenses the
[1:58:12] alcohol vapor behind it and you see a
[1:58:14] trail kind of like um if you imagine,
[1:58:18] you know, if anyone's ever seen a video
[1:58:19] of a bullet being shot underwater, what
[1:58:21] do you have behind that bullet? You have
[1:58:23] a very you have an expanding uh cone of
[1:58:26] air. The same thing is happening in this
[1:58:28] chamber. And that's about it. It's super
[1:58:31] simple. Um, I have gloves and everyone
[1:58:34] sees me put on these gloves and they're
[1:58:36] like, "Oh yeah, radiation is dangerous."
[1:58:38] He put on the gloves to deal with the
[1:58:39] radiation. Uh, no. I can touch this
[1:58:41] radioactive source with my bare hands. I
[1:58:43] would not worry about it. Um, I wouldn't
[1:58:45] want to swallow that radioactive source,
[1:58:47] but beyond that, it's totally fine. The
[1:58:49] gloves are for the dry ice. A lot more
[1:58:51] dangerous than the radiation. Um, so I
[1:58:53] set this up a while ago. So, I want to
[1:58:56] make sure it's still showing trails.
[1:58:57] Yes, it is. Um, come on up and you can
[1:59:00] come and see some radiation.
[1:59:04] All right, line up one at a time. So,
[1:59:05] I'm going to get out so we can kind of
[1:59:07] come on both sides here. Here, I'll
[1:59:09] bring it I'll bring it to the end. Um,
[1:59:12] so the way you're going to want to
[1:59:13] observe it is you're going to want to
[1:59:14] look from the top of this chamber down.
[1:59:17] And on the black, that white thing there
[1:59:19] is the radioactive source. And on the
[1:59:21] black bottom of this chamber, you're
[1:59:23] going to see wisps of smoke. And each
[1:59:25] one of those wisps is a radioactive
[1:59:27] particle being shot off. So take a look.
[1:59:29] And do you see all that down there?
[1:59:34] So that is radiation. Now, one cool
[1:59:36] thing about this is you'll see radiation
[1:59:38] coming off that radioactive source. But
[1:59:40] every now and then you'll see a trail.
[1:59:43] You see it?
[1:59:44] » Yep.
[1:59:44] » Yep.
[1:59:45] » See that down there? All those wispy
[1:59:48] things shooting off.
[1:59:49] » Yeah.
[1:59:49] » Yeah.
[1:59:50] » Now, every now and then we'll see one
[1:59:52] come from a random direction. Why?
[1:59:54] Because radiation is shooting through
[1:59:56] the atmosphere at all times.
[1:59:58] Commissioner, you want to look right
[1:59:59] through the top actually to the bottom.
[2:00:02] You see that? See all that wispy stuff
[2:00:03] being shot around in the black bottom
[2:00:05] there?
[2:00:05] » Oh, yeah.
[2:00:06] » That is radiation. Now, that's always
[2:00:09] happening off of that radioactive
[2:00:11] source. It's only visible because we put
[2:00:13] it here in this chamber.
[2:00:18] » It wouldn't be the first time I've had
[2:00:20] that request. So,
[2:00:22] » Waves. Yeah. Um, illustrate wind.
[2:00:25] » Yep. Exactly. You seeing them?
[2:00:27] » Yeah, that is cool.
[2:00:29] » How about you? You seeing them? They
[2:00:30] give me hard here. I'll scoot over a
[2:00:31] little bit because you really want to
[2:00:32] look at the from the very top straight
[2:00:34] down.
[2:00:36] » Okay.
[2:00:37] » Yeah, that's radiation.
[2:00:43] » Seeing it?
[2:00:44] » You're not. I'll scoot it over for you a
[2:00:46] little bit. So, if you look from the
[2:00:48] straight top down, you want to look at
[2:00:49] the black bottom of this chamber and you
[2:00:51] should see Here
[2:00:53] you go. You see all those wispy things
[2:00:57] that are flying around? That's
[2:00:59] radiation. Yep.
[2:01:02] » There you go.
[2:01:04] All right.
[2:01:05] » I do. I'll get you. I have one in that
[2:01:07] in that bag there.
[2:01:08] » Okay. I'll put them on the desk here for
[2:01:10] sure. Um, did anybody not Oh, here you
[2:01:12] go. Did anybody not get to see the
[2:01:14] trails? Yeah. Use the flashlight
[2:01:16] yourself to kind of get a good angle.
[2:01:18] See the