1 00:00:04,370 --> 00:00:34,030 Good evening. I'd like to call to order tonight's Powell Operations Committee meeting for September 15th. Elaine, could you call the roll? Leave Carlson here. Our list Crawford is absent. Just a sunny here. Thank you, Harvey. Okay. The first item on our agenda is approval of last meeting's minutes. They were all included in your packet. Can we get a consensus? 2 00:00:34,030 --> 00:00:35,490 to approve those minutes. 3 00:00:36,050 --> 00:00:36,730 So moved. 4 00:00:37,350 --> 00:00:37,750 All in favor? 5 00:00:38,150 --> 00:00:38,530 Yes, sir. 6 00:00:38,750 --> 00:00:39,210 All right, great. 7 00:00:39,950 --> 00:00:41,250 Minutes are approved. 8 00:00:41,510 --> 00:00:44,910 Tonight's business, item A is massage, 9 00:00:45,310 --> 00:00:49,210 parlor regulations for exploration and review. 10 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:53,560 Take it away, Andy. 11 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,000 So since we talked about it last step is undertaken, 12 00:00:59,260 --> 00:01:01,400 an exercise that kind of look at historical record, 13 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,340 and I can't remember what we talked about previously, 14 00:01:04,340 --> 00:01:12,520 But there was discussion, I think, far as 2015 that came to fruition with a mock-up ordinance, 15 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,040 which is included in the back of 2019. 16 00:01:15,450 --> 00:01:21,100 There were several meetings of public discussion, not well attended, counsel at the time, directed 17 00:01:21,100 --> 00:01:27,620 staff conducted public hearing, which was set and conducted. 18 00:01:27,620 --> 00:01:31,080 that we heard on the record mainly from businesses 19 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,760 that were concerned over the duplication 20 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,040 of a licensing program in place with the state 21 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,560 and the potential for redundant costs. 22 00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:43,140 And then we went to the fall of 2019. 23 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,420 There was a row of staff turnover positions 24 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,620 that I wanted up to found and the whole world shut down 25 00:01:50,620 --> 00:01:52,300 and we moved on to other things. 26 00:01:52,300 --> 00:01:54,440 This was talked about again in 2022, 27 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,380 do, but it's tied on the vine. 28 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:01,100 So the conversation we had earlier, 29 00:02:01,300 --> 00:02:03,220 with some experts in the field earlier this year, 30 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,220 and some of the activities of concern noted throughout the 31 00:02:06,220 --> 00:02:07,740 country, but Central High as well, 32 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,800 we've now undertaken more of a comprehensive review. 33 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,720 There are several items for you to review of examples 34 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:15,600 in other communities. 35 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,100 Chief has worked very well, and as a presentation, 36 00:02:20,100 --> 00:02:21,780 we'd like to present to you tonight, 37 00:02:21,780 --> 00:02:25,980 which kind of gives you a myriad of options that are in place in other communities. 38 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,400 We've kind of settled in in a hybrid recommendation for you. 39 00:02:30,580 --> 00:02:35,560 We wanted to present that tonight from feedback and see how you feel about the options that we've kind of settled on. 40 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:42,860 If that's comfortable with modification without, we can then begin to work with legal and 41 00:02:42,860 --> 00:02:45,180 legislator to bring this before council for adoption. 42 00:02:45,860 --> 00:02:51,240 With that, I would appreciate the opportunity to allow the chief to provide the committee with his presentation. 43 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,160 And then we can answer questions along the way. 44 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,220 Please feel free to stop at the same time. 45 00:02:55,740 --> 00:02:55,840 Chief. 46 00:02:56,900 --> 00:02:59,960 Good evening, Chairman Carlson and members of the Operations Committee. 47 00:03:00,580 --> 00:03:03,620 Tonight's discussion is really a continuation from our July, 48 00:03:03,900 --> 00:03:06,700 meaning where we had some individuals, 49 00:03:07,060 --> 00:03:08,780 Aaron Dennis from Ohio, organ and crime, 50 00:03:09,420 --> 00:03:11,440 the Central Human Trafficking Task Force, 51 00:03:11,740 --> 00:03:13,520 and Detective Sergeant Ryan Pence, 52 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,500 who was the lead investigator on the two incidents 53 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:19,860 that we had here in the city of Powell earlier this year, 54 00:03:19,860 --> 00:03:21,460 here, and then also back in 2015. 55 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:34,220 How criminal investigations involving the human trafficking, and we're going to look at some potential legislation tonight, and for dealing with these illicit massage businesses. 56 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:42,420 Again, the discussion tonight is intended to determine the direction that we should take regarding possible massage ordinance. 57 00:03:43,060 --> 00:03:48,040 The goal is not to target any legitimate massage therapists or businesses. 58 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:55,240 The purpose of the review is to go over some of the Ohio communities to decide what tools 59 00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:02,040 and options Powell may use to protect public safety, have legitimate businesses, and 60 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:03,400 the safety of our community. 61 00:04:07,100 --> 00:04:11,400 Most besides businesses that I said in the City of Powell operate lawfully in our legitimate 62 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:12,100 services. 63 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:17,320 However, Powell has had, again, those prior investigations of these illicit businesses. 64 00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:23,340 Existing criminal laws may not always provide the best intervention tools for us. 65 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:28,060 A local ordinance would help identify who owns and operates these businesses, 66 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:35,500 verify proper licensure, establish clear operating guidelines, and 67 00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:41,880 address and provide administrative remedies for when problems become more difficult to deal with. 68 00:04:42,780 --> 00:04:52,920 In your packets, you've been given some ordnance from five other communities, and then also the draft legislation that the City of Powell had from 2019. 69 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:59,840 So, yes, was able to provide an ordnance from the City of Cincinnati. 70 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:14,000 Annatty and Westerville. Our clerk was able to get one from the city of Delaware, and then Aaron Dennis, who was here in July, he had recommended Strongesville and 71 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:19,220 Danis ordinances that we should consider, so those are there for you to review as well. 72 00:05:25,820 --> 00:05:32,020 Ohio already regulates massage therapy through the state medical board licensing. The question for 73 00:05:32,020 --> 00:05:36,080 or how is whether the state licensing alone is enough or whether the city should regulate 74 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,060 the business location and the operations further. 75 00:05:39,580 --> 00:05:42,360 Other Ohio communities rely on the higher vice code. 76 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,280 Authorities for municipal regulation and licensing of massage related businesses. 77 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:53,140 The city of Delaware for instance has an ordinance that specifically is for zoning related, gives 78 00:05:53,140 --> 00:05:57,700 them the authority for public health, safety and welfare basis for local action. 79 00:05:57,700 --> 00:05:58,860 Rather 80 00:06:01,740 --> 00:06:04,760 than covering each of the sections of these community ordinances, 81 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:09,140 they really break down into three different general categories. 82 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:13,060 Delaware uses a zoning focused approach. 83 00:06:14,020 --> 00:06:19,100 Westerville and Powell's 2019 draft, they use a registration model. 84 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:24,600 While Picker intense Cincinnati is strong, they'll use more comprehensive licensing models. 85 00:06:25,460 --> 00:06:28,560 The committee does not have to copy one ordinance exactly. 86 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:35,560 Paul can choose a balanced approach to fit our size administrative capacity and our enforcement needs. 87 00:06:47,270 --> 00:06:53,970 So, Paul has already has a useful starting point in the 2019 proposed ordinance. 88 00:06:54,430 --> 00:07:00,030 That draft language required registration certificate, a zoning certificate, certificate 89 00:07:00,030 --> 00:07:07,010 of occupancy, verification of massage treatments that were performed only by licensed or exempt 90 00:07:07,010 --> 00:07:14,150 individuals, such as physicians, chiropractors, podiatrist, nurses, or other health professionals. 91 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:19,570 It also provided for renewal, inspection, prohibited conduct. 92 00:07:20,450 --> 00:07:24,090 There's an appeal process with that as well as penalty provisions. 93 00:07:27,710 --> 00:07:30,210 Other cities add provisions that maybe we're considering. 94 00:07:31,170 --> 00:07:35,890 Pick and TIN requires criminal history information, fingerprints, and photographs as part of 95 00:07:35,890 --> 00:07:37,170 the application process. 96 00:07:37,170 --> 00:07:42,550 Since an addy uses a police review that includes inspection authority, 97 00:07:43,690 --> 00:07:46,590 Strongville even adds additional operating details, 98 00:07:47,340 --> 00:07:49,510 including posting services and fees, 99 00:07:51,010 --> 00:07:54,210 client and they must maintain client and service records, 100 00:07:54,710 --> 00:07:58,410 and restrictions for prohibiting sleeping or residing at the business. 101 00:07:59,190 --> 00:08:02,610 These provisions give the city more administrative tools, 102 00:08:02,610 --> 00:08:06,610 when businesses begin to be suspicious. 103 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:23,960 A future power ordinance may establish registration or licensing or state licensing verification, owner operator disclosure, zoning and occupancy approval, sanitation standards, 104 00:08:25,020 --> 00:08:34,700 Posting credentials, employee and therapist rosters, inspection authority, prohibited conduct, appeal rights and penalties. 105 00:08:35,380 --> 00:08:40,680 The key is to make the ordinance enforceable without overburving legitimate state license professionals. 106 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:51,300 So there are really three policy directions that we would go option one is the zoning and state licensing. 107 00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:54,880 this is the lease burdensome on an 108 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,720 ministry. Option two would be the 109 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,440 registration and then add some 110 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,280 operating standards. This is a 111 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,020 middle ground registration model. 112 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,060 And then option three would be a 113 00:09:06,060 --> 00:09:08,820 comprehensive local licensing, which 114 00:09:08,820 --> 00:09:10,740 is the most comprehensive licensing 115 00:09:10,740 --> 00:09:12,460 model. So it takes more administrative 116 00:09:12,460 --> 00:09:16,280 work to follow through with that. My 117 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,020 recommendation would be that we follow 118 00:09:18,020 --> 00:09:20,100 option two, which would be the 119 00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:23,960 registration and operating standards but then strengthen it with some of the select provisions 120 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:24,960 from other communities. 121 00:09:28,380 --> 00:09:31,840 The committee's choice should balance again the enforcement value 122 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:38,800 administrative costs, legal review and the burden on legitimate businesses. So you'll see 123 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,860 here in this slide it provides a summary of some different approaches by the identified 124 00:09:43,860 --> 00:09:50,760 communities. Delaware is the lightest model, Westerville and Powell. The Powell draft are 125 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,200 are the moderate registration models. 126 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,120 It represents Cincinnati and Strongville again, 127 00:09:56,260 --> 00:09:58,100 are the more intensive licensing models. 128 00:09:58,820 --> 00:09:59,740 This comparison. 129 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:06,260 Powell has flexibility and does not to choose all or nothing approach so we can make this fit our needs. 130 00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:14,910 Again, the recommended direction is updating the Powell 2019 registration model. 131 00:10:15,510 --> 00:10:19,350 This direction avoids duplicating state professional licensing processes. 132 00:10:19,710 --> 00:10:22,870 So as city manager alluded at the beginning of this discussion, 133 00:10:23,450 --> 00:10:27,490 the state already has a requirement for having a license process. 134 00:10:27,870 --> 00:10:29,030 I think we should follow that. 135 00:10:29,210 --> 00:10:31,410 There would be no reason for us to create our own licensing. 136 00:10:31,410 --> 00:10:33,750 it would be administratively burdensome. 137 00:10:34,210 --> 00:10:36,310 Plus, there would be some questions on how we would manage that. 138 00:10:37,950 --> 00:10:43,130 But it would allow us to create a local accountability for the businesses and the massage therapists. 139 00:10:44,170 --> 00:10:48,970 The city could add owner and operator screening, operating hour limits, 140 00:10:49,410 --> 00:10:53,630 employee roster requirements, sleeping again or residing on premises. 141 00:10:54,410 --> 00:11:00,410 Again, those posted services and fees, and then cleared denial and revocation standards. 142 00:11:05,250 --> 00:11:11,210 If the committee is inclined, we're looking for guidance from four staff on major policy choices. 143 00:11:11,610 --> 00:11:15,450 Again, registration versus licensing, whether background checks should be required. 144 00:11:16,090 --> 00:11:19,290 What hours should apply, whether sleeping on site should be prohibited. 145 00:11:19,770 --> 00:11:23,530 Who administers the ordinance and how inspections should occur? 146 00:11:24,450 --> 00:11:29,150 We also would need to consider non-brick and mortar massage businesses, such as mobile massage, 147 00:11:29,150 --> 00:11:34,550 or in residential massage and how these changes may affect the legitimate massage businesses. 148 00:11:35,470 --> 00:11:41,030 Or if we would want to have the grandfather clause where the existing businesses would be grandfathered, 149 00:11:41,250 --> 00:11:46,390 and then any new businesses or therapists that would come in would fall underneath the new ordinance. 150 00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:56,850 Staff will use this feedback and we'll work with legal to create a draft ordinance that could be brought back to this committee, 151 00:11:56,850 --> 00:11:59,290 or to City Council for further consideration. 152 00:12:07,380 --> 00:12:11,760 So the next step would be for the committee to select a preferred policy direction and 153 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,620 authorize staff and a law director to prepare a revised ordinance. 154 00:12:15,260 --> 00:12:21,960 That draft would return to operations committee or council so that we could meet any recommendation 155 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:22,700 that was made. 156 00:12:23,460 --> 00:12:28,640 And then the final ordinance should be again, the balance public safety and 157 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,320 enforceability, constitutional, and specional requirements, 158 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,680 and fairness to legitimate massage providers. 159 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:38,960 So, thank you again. 160 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,800 I hope that I've provided a good overview 161 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:43,280 of some of our options. 162 00:12:44,140 --> 00:12:46,900 We do have members of staff and our law director present, 163 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,420 so we're open for any feedback or any questions 164 00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:50,200 that you may have. 165 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,060 Thank you, good to scroll back to. 166 00:12:58,420 --> 00:12:58,760 We 167 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:03,000 could learn it there. 168 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,700 I don't know which the right slide is, but yeah, that's great. 169 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,980 Is there a follow-up to the chief's report? 170 00:13:13,540 --> 00:13:21,600 No other than from a legal perspective, I concur with the recommendation, I think based 171 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:29,660 on reviewing some of the minutes in history of this, that was the path that the city had 172 00:13:29,660 --> 00:13:30,280 been on. 173 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:35,640 and there was some discussion among some business owners 174 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,880 and deference to kind of what the state was doing at the time 175 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,960 and then it sort of fell off the radar during COVID 176 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:43,760 and everything else. 177 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,920 But I think the return to building off 178 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,340 of what had been drafted is appropriate, 179 00:13:51,340 --> 00:13:52,740 is appropriate way forward. 180 00:13:54,080 --> 00:14:00,260 I think with some added operational tools 181 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:06,200 to kind of protect the legitimate business community and protect the community from illegitimate 182 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:12,760 operations. So I have to answer any specific questions but generally concur and agree with 183 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:23,680 the recommendation for and can tailor a city of proposed city ordinance for this as council 184 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,240 or this committee would like? 185 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:42,220 No, I mean I, I, I, reading through some of the documentation I had some of these same questions of 186 00:14:43,220 --> 00:14:51,000 should there be, are we just taking the 2019 verbatim and adding to it or are we just taking it verbatim and moving forward? 187 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:56,080 Like, so I think some, these are some of the very questions that I had, kind of reading through all the material. 188 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,340 You know, I mean, again. 189 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:08,100 And if we're looking for thoughts from the committee on these questions, then I would tend 190 00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:13,620 to agree, I think, like the ones that come to mind are, let's, you know, operating 191 00:15:13,620 --> 00:15:19,660 hours seem like an easy ad. It seems like it's pretty standard with some of the others. 192 00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:27,200 It'll kind of boxes in what you would expect. I think it would probably help enforcement 193 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,660 to know like if I see people moving in and out on odd hours I have like some box 194 00:15:32,660 --> 00:15:38,200 that I can then say well hey what's going on here, felt like there's like the 195 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,400 concept of at least for registration and background review having some 196 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:47,660 degree of like when you're applying felt like that was reasonable to kind of go 197 00:15:47,660 --> 00:15:56,510 from where we are on that chart towards Cincinnati. I think if there's other 198 00:15:57,050 --> 00:16:02,830 questions like the like like local therapist licensure I tend to agree feels 199 00:16:02,830 --> 00:16:07,930 like the state has some of that why not just piggyback on that so some of those 200 00:16:07,930 --> 00:16:11,710 questions that you'd ask those are ones that came to mind for me like it seems 201 00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:16,910 like we could take what we have as a framework and then add some components and 202 00:16:16,910 --> 00:16:23,990 work with Yaz on what that would look like those are my initial thoughts. I think 203 00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:26,490 I think everything Matthew said makes sense to me as well. 204 00:16:26,890 --> 00:16:32,750 Have we heard it all from any of the existing businesses as this conversation has taken place over the last couple of months? 205 00:16:35,470 --> 00:16:42,730 Interesting. Okay, but I mean when you look at option two that seems to build off of what we already have. 206 00:16:43,370 --> 00:16:47,870 And I think adding in hours and when you see lights on at 2 a.m. 207 00:16:48,110 --> 00:16:52,270 That's going to pose some questions to our officers and I think everything else makes sense. 208 00:16:52,270 --> 00:16:55,050 Don't double back on what the state's already doing. 209 00:16:55,930 --> 00:16:56,890 Build off of it. 210 00:16:57,190 --> 00:16:58,690 Thank you. 211 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:08,040 The whole point is to deter these businesses from coming to power. 212 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:14,500 If we can officially do that through this, our job is to deter. 213 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,940 What's existing here, we've got to figure that out. 214 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,540 However, the police want to figure that out. 215 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,380 This is really a deterrent you need for. 216 00:17:22,380 --> 00:17:28,620 And so whatever works that's efficient for staff that it makes it a little bit difficult 217 00:17:28,620 --> 00:17:30,460 to set up shop in our town. 218 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:35,900 Yeah, I tend to agree. 219 00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:44,820 I really don't want to stand in the way of getting this to a legislative vote sometime 220 00:17:44,820 --> 00:17:45,380 this year. 221 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:51,620 I think that's the accomplishment that I'm looking to get across the finish line. 222 00:17:51,620 --> 00:17:53,540 And I 223 00:17:55,970 --> 00:18:00,230 don't know the legal ins and outs of what allows you to go in and inspect these. 224 00:18:00,530 --> 00:18:07,530 And I just want you guys to have the tools in your toolbox that allows you to investigate 225 00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:07,970 something. 226 00:18:08,430 --> 00:18:13,170 And I mean, I trust what you guys are investigating in your intuition, and I just want you to have 227 00:18:13,170 --> 00:18:21,310 the tools in your toolbox that allow you to explore something that allows you to get in 228 00:18:21,310 --> 00:18:28,410 there looking she was going on and you know without being a burden to legitimate businesses. 229 00:18:29,210 --> 00:18:36,250 And I trust that you guys can thread that needle and legally I don't know how to draft 230 00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:36,850 that site. 231 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:39,580 We can. 232 00:18:39,940 --> 00:18:40,180 I know. 233 00:18:40,380 --> 00:18:40,860 You can. 234 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,140 And I think that's what's important. 235 00:18:44,020 --> 00:18:50,800 I think one thing that we consider the grandfather is that something that I would prefer 236 00:18:55,820 --> 00:19:00,360 I think that was one of the other questions and I thought the same thing as I did felt like 237 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,820 this is carte blanche, like everybody's got to play by the same rules, if everyone's 238 00:19:04,820 --> 00:19:11,480 going to have the same opportunities, and if for some reason that scares you, my next 239 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:18,760 question would be why, why does something like registering and setting hours scare you, 240 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:20,520 So I have a great. 241 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:28,760 And with mobile to the same thing we can kind of look at that and have them do same paperwork or do you think it would need to look much different? 242 00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:35,280 I would think if they were providing the services in the city of Paltwywood want them to follow the same ordinance and rules and guidelines. 243 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,100 Again, the two cases that we add were brick and mortar stores and locations. 244 00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:59,480 We haven't dealt with mobile massage or even in-home massage that's going on, you know, if this committee or even council decided that they wanted to exempt them, we're not seeing those issues in our enforcement. 245 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:16,140 There are not enforcement issues right now. If it became that, we could always return and modify that ordinance and add some restrictions at that time if it became a problem. But it just gives us other tools or options down the road to address something if we didn't need to now. 246 00:20:19,870 --> 00:20:29,070 How much in-home is more on the medical side of things where you tend to have higher licensure versus just a cattle? 247 00:20:29,070 --> 00:20:35,130 So I don't know that because we haven't had a registration process in place for that. 248 00:20:36,090 --> 00:20:41,650 But again, the law, the current state law already identifies exempt individuals. 249 00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:49,050 And those would be the ones your doctors, chiropractors, nurses, things that would already have some sort of licensure to do what they're doing. 250 00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:56,620 So do you want to include that in legislation? 251 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:15,920 So we discussed this a little bit last Thursday at our leadership meeting, and Mr. Tyler had dealt with this issue previously, and he thought that it would be good for us to discuss that or take that into consideration. 252 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:22,620 I'm not even aware if there is mobile massage happening in power, but I think it's something for us to consider. 253 00:21:24,180 --> 00:21:24,760 I 254 00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:37,140 guess when we talk about grandfathering and in theory I'm not opposed to grandfathering. 255 00:21:38,930 --> 00:21:43,940 My wife asked me a tricky question because they're doing hand massage or the manicure nails 256 00:21:43,940 --> 00:21:44,240 plot. 257 00:21:44,420 --> 00:21:45,220 Do they have to register? 258 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:51,460 And I said, I don't know and I just I guess I don't know how far down the rabbit hole 259 00:21:51,460 --> 00:21:52,720 all this code. 260 00:21:57,350 --> 00:22:03,950 I know that's a crazy question, but no, I think it was some of the same questions 261 00:22:03,950 --> 00:22:13,210 that the city was receiving previously. How do you address hand massages at the lawns 262 00:22:13,210 --> 00:22:19,990 and head massages at spot nut spas and mobile massages. 263 00:22:20,530 --> 00:22:25,570 And the reality is I think you can graph this to carve out 264 00:22:25,570 --> 00:22:31,070 in a very tailored manner to say your working order 265 00:22:31,070 --> 00:22:39,410 business that makes 40 of you revenue from massages. 266 00:22:39,650 --> 00:22:41,610 And you define massages as you know. 267 00:22:42,610 --> 00:23:01,210 In a certain manner, then this legislation applies to you, and so I don't have the revenue of every business, but I suspect that you're, you know, salons and spas aren't making, deriving 75% of the revenue from, you know, hemisages or other types of massages. 268 00:23:01,210 --> 00:23:07,790 is although I do know that some salons do have a massage and 269 00:23:07,790 --> 00:23:15,370 juices employed there, so maybe it applies to if you're licensed in the state to do something that applies to you. 270 00:23:16,370 --> 00:23:22,830 There's a number of ways to tailor it, you know, it's more of a policy question of how far we want to go, 271 00:23:22,890 --> 00:23:26,490 especially with the mobile and the in-home. 272 00:23:26,490 --> 00:23:36,170 I think businesses where massages are sort of ancillary and you're not doing anything 273 00:23:36,170 --> 00:23:40,270 that requires a license, that's how you differentiate. 274 00:23:43,730 --> 00:23:53,090 In terms of the retroactivity or the grandfathering in, assuming we go the registration route, that 275 00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:58,350 can be applied retroactively to existing businesses because it is not a kind of substantive 276 00:23:58,350 --> 00:24:01,190 of law, it's a process, it's a registration. 277 00:24:02,370 --> 00:24:06,450 You can also grandfather them in explicitly in the legislation. 278 00:24:06,690 --> 00:24:10,290 I think you would have to if that's what you wanted. 279 00:24:11,210 --> 00:24:18,870 So I think the default is existing businesses would be subject to it unless they were, you 280 00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:21,450 know, expressly grandfathered in. 281 00:24:21,450 --> 00:24:22,070 We 282 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:31,640 have a couple businesses that were probably qualified for that exception. 283 00:24:33,220 --> 00:24:35,360 Yeah, I would assume that there are some. 284 00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:37,300 I don't know. 285 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:39,700 I don't know. 286 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:39,920 I don't know. 287 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,840 I already have anything to add from a historical context. 288 00:24:44,410 --> 00:24:47,930 The only thing that I would add is, yeah, just right. 289 00:24:48,150 --> 00:24:51,910 We got into the discussion of what applies and what doesn't. 290 00:24:51,910 --> 00:24:59,970 And I think where we kind of landed previously was creating that exemption for businesses that already had 291 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:29,980 We have their licensure through the state because why make them do it twice? Because they have to display it anyway. And I think for the most covers most of already existing businesses, you know, your chiropractor, your doctors, they're already operating under a different license. Clearly, if we're in a registry, we would at least need to make an inventory of those 292 00:25:29,980 --> 00:25:31,340 businesses, so we knew. 293 00:25:33,580 --> 00:25:37,180 But I don't know that we ever discussed grandfathering in the past. 294 00:25:37,660 --> 00:25:39,000 Do you recall that, yes? 295 00:25:39,380 --> 00:25:46,400 I don't, although admittedly, I was not around for the 2019 version, but I don't think 296 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,300 that was in the minutes that we saw that was a discussion when we're now. 297 00:25:51,020 --> 00:25:57,260 I think the main concern was already existing licensed businesses. We wanted to make sure 298 00:25:57,260 --> 00:26:03,540 they were exempt from the registration process, just because we didn't want to create 299 00:26:03,540 --> 00:26:12,900 extra something onerous and that was quite honestly in 2019, I actually came to the meetings 300 00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:20,060 before I was on council and the outcry from the chiropractic world in particular was, 301 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,880 we already have to go through all this, so why do we have to submit to yours? 302 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,520 And I will say, I was just taking a quick look at all the samples. 303 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,900 I think each of them, all of the samples, carbide exemptions for 304 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,800 cosmetologists, so that would be, you know, hammer and nail or, you know, 305 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,800 barbers, nurses, chiropractors, physical therapists and physicians. 306 00:26:46,180 --> 00:26:48,740 I think covers almost everything you would have. 307 00:26:49,460 --> 00:26:54,180 I will say the one thing that I do like if we are creating a deterrent is 308 00:26:54,180 --> 00:27:11,800 If we go the middle route is to add background check for the business owner, because that is where we would catch, or they may no longer want to do business here, if they had to submit to a background check. 309 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:12,500 I 310 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:24,400 think that makes sense. 311 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:34,100 It doesn't have to be an excessive fee if I just be a police background check. 312 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,620 Yeah, got prior business. 313 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,920 I think there's more boys you can do it. 314 00:27:40,020 --> 00:27:45,400 I know that we do have the ability to do a criminal history background check right here 315 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,680 in our house with our clerks could do that. 316 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:49,280 Yeah. 317 00:27:49,580 --> 00:27:50,240 I think. 318 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:51,960 I'm not a poster, I don't know. 319 00:27:53,460 --> 00:27:57,800 I think Pickerington, Cincinnati, required fingerprinting and police investigations. 320 00:27:58,020 --> 00:28:07,880 Whereas the other ones sort of rely on the whatever background check they have to do at the state level, if any. 321 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,020 Whatever it was, it 322 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:15,860 was a thought that it would be like fingerprinting and police background check, 323 00:28:15,860 --> 00:28:21,920 is that what the thought was as far as any potential suggestions to enhance this, 324 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:44,140 We would recommend doing that and registration process, yes, as part of that, and then that could be the approval process, and we give them that and I don't know much about the zoning, but I know Logan was willing to kind of discuss some of the zoning related questions that may be a committee has. 325 00:28:44,140 --> 00:28:45,400 So it 326 00:28:48,660 --> 00:28:58,680 seems with this option that wouldn't be ready into like the zoning code, like possible marijuana legislation, right? 327 00:28:59,460 --> 00:29:02,240 This would be more civic. 328 00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:07,190 Yes, this would probably be a standalone ordinance. 329 00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:17,210 I think what we would do, it would probably be changes to the zoning code would come alongside the establishment of the registration program. 330 00:29:17,210 --> 00:29:45,450 So, it's all getting approved by Council under one kind of larger effort, so we could break up the sections of the zoning code to say that these are the areas if we need to add use definitions, if we need to tie into certain sections of the zoning code, which I think the 2019 legislation has some of that in there, you may see if you scroll down into some of the later pages, it has sections from the zoning code that they were proposing those changes. 331 00:29:45,450 --> 00:29:51,310 is. And one of the biggest items that we had talked about was probably more so for the 332 00:29:51,310 --> 00:29:57,870 established businesses is ensuring that you have, you are a business that is a permitted 333 00:29:57,870 --> 00:29:59,890 use in the zoning district so 334 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:29,860 If you're in a commercial center that, you know, personal services or whatever it might be falling under, is a permitted use there. And similarly, from the building department side that you do actually have a certificate of occupancy to legally occupy the tenant space. So we can have a couple of those tie-ins as well just to help from an enforcement standpoint. So while police might be able to spearhead the specific operations, we can also add a different zoning, you know, violations and building code violations. 335 00:30:29,860 --> 00:30:30,960 part of that process. 336 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,280 For part to all that? 337 00:30:34,020 --> 00:30:39,800 Yes, so open gov which we had talked about a little bit internally if we went the registration route. 338 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,240 The city has an existing program that's kind of similar which is contractor registration. 339 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:50,840 So we have it where when somebody files with us through that system all of their information is saved 340 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:56,060 and the system will notify you when that renewal period is up and we can customize that however. 341 00:30:56,060 --> 00:31:02,780 So then it's if it's a two-year registration program, it'll let them know X amount of days beforehand 342 00:31:02,780 --> 00:31:07,880 It'll close it out X amount of days after that expiration date, but really at that point 343 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:14,260 It's they just log in but we'll check their information and then they're you know submit their new registration 344 00:31:14,260 --> 00:31:20,340 We review go through that process and we can build in as many steps are as necessary 345 00:31:20,340 --> 00:31:26,040 So if a background check is needed we can have that pain so that the applicant is aware going into 346 00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:39,920 it as well as, you know, city staff has notified that, hey, this person may be reaching out to schedule an appointment to come in or to check off these, additionally, we can add any other sort of requirements with that. 347 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:48,900 So we have a lot of flexibility at the end of the day of what we can do from the, to make it a relatively easy process for somebody to submit and follow. 348 00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:55,100 You're thinking every, like, a bio-annual, right? 349 00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:56,520 Two years is the recommended month. 350 00:31:57,220 --> 00:31:57,340 Yeah. 351 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,940 And just one background check, the first time that they do it, 352 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,940 or would you require every couple of years? 353 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:06,140 Each registration period. 354 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:07,280 A new background check. 355 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:07,640 Yes. 356 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:08,400 Yeah. 357 00:32:14,410 --> 00:32:17,270 I think that's fair, given the nature of the business. 358 00:32:17,610 --> 00:32:20,030 I mean, maybe when you were talking background checks 359 00:32:20,030 --> 00:32:22,990 and fingerprints, I had to do that to coach youth stopper. 360 00:32:23,310 --> 00:32:25,430 So I'm like, what do you think there should be going on? 361 00:32:27,530 --> 00:32:28,190 And 362 00:32:30,270 --> 00:32:34,530 especially if it can be done in-house, I mean, that's a fast process. 363 00:32:35,310 --> 00:32:39,830 I know you've had the question of which city department, I guess I don't really know 364 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:48,590 all the different departments that might fall into this, but was there a thought of who 365 00:32:48,590 --> 00:32:56,910 fit the bill the best, like for administering any compliance and conducting the inspections 366 00:32:56,910 --> 00:32:58,470 and everything like that. 367 00:32:58,690 --> 00:33:00,230 I believe it was one of the open questions. 368 00:33:00,510 --> 00:33:02,570 Registration process with all through the city 369 00:33:02,570 --> 00:33:04,390 and the police department we would work 370 00:33:04,390 --> 00:33:07,070 and can them together to execute 371 00:33:07,070 --> 00:33:10,090 the roles that each department would need to. 372 00:33:11,050 --> 00:33:14,570 So we do that now with some of our brain assemblage permitting, 373 00:33:16,010 --> 00:33:17,610 goes from department to department 374 00:33:17,610 --> 00:33:18,870 for the approval processes. 375 00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:20,830 And we set something up similar to that. 376 00:33:22,370 --> 00:33:26,090 The burden wouldn't fall on any one group 377 00:33:26,090 --> 00:33:27,890 and you would kind of continue to maintain. 378 00:33:28,150 --> 00:33:33,510 I presume like somebody is applying for alcohol license 379 00:33:33,510 --> 00:33:34,410 or something like that. 380 00:33:34,770 --> 00:33:37,470 There's multiple folks that are involved. 381 00:33:38,150 --> 00:33:39,910 Yeah, there would be an initial submission 382 00:33:39,910 --> 00:33:41,630 and then it would just, you know, 383 00:33:41,850 --> 00:33:44,050 to your approach, you would go to each department 384 00:33:44,050 --> 00:33:48,410 for the needed approval or denial 385 00:33:49,070 --> 00:33:51,110 to make sure that their steps were taken care of. 386 00:33:51,610 --> 00:33:51,690 Yep. 387 00:33:52,430 --> 00:33:52,550 Yeah. 388 00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:58,600 Anything else for the good of the body 389 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,180 on this subject. 390 00:34:02,410 --> 00:34:02,990 Yes, sir. 391 00:34:03,550 --> 00:34:05,090 Do you feel like you have direction? 392 00:34:05,730 --> 00:34:13,010 The only thing I want to raise publicly is the status of the zoning code. 393 00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:18,370 No, so if you're not aware, which none of the non-members are, 394 00:34:18,830 --> 00:34:24,430 the city could use a petition for referendum opposing the code itself. 395 00:34:24,430 --> 00:34:30,030 And we have submitted that paperwork to the Board of Elections, which is the required process. 396 00:34:30,490 --> 00:34:37,250 They have a period of time to evaluate the validity of the signatures to determine whether or not it satisfies the required law. 397 00:34:37,830 --> 00:34:40,230 We have not heard back from them yet, but we should this week. 398 00:34:40,670 --> 00:34:46,470 I just wanted to throw that out there, because right now, we're kind of in a gray area in terms of, 399 00:34:46,610 --> 00:34:50,210 do we move forward with the adoption of the code that was proposed through planning commission? 400 00:34:50,210 --> 00:34:52,830 and then all of these changes will be applicable to that 401 00:34:53,730 --> 00:34:57,370 or will have a pushed out and will go and make the adjustments 402 00:34:57,370 --> 00:34:59,850 to the older code. So that's just... 403 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:27,000 I think it's a good thing, because it gives me additional time to think about this. The only other thing to consider is we just have not received much public input on this subject matter. And hopefully through a little discussion, if we can present to you a legislative recommendation. And we can promote through economic development outreach to find out for the business, but also just for the general public. I think it would be impactful for you to hear. 404 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:56,900 here like they did in 2019 from some of the businesses just to make sure and I could have some benefit to your conversation and I think that most pertinent thing for us to do at this point in time would be take any feedback from the committee and allow allow staff to work through the legislative adoption and establishment with you all and come back at the next meeting at that point in time will know much will have clarity in terms of how we're going to proceed forward with the planning and the zoning code. 405 00:35:56,900 --> 00:36:06,200 And I think we will have additional substantive matters that we can incorporate some of these discussion points tonight in an actual piece of legislation. 406 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:09,340 And at that point, hopefully get some additional discussion. 407 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:15,780 We can take input from you all along the way, but I just want to raise that issue for perspective and context. 408 00:36:20,610 --> 00:36:23,390 Okay. Other business for the committee. 409 00:36:23,390 --> 00:36:28,450 I thought I'd just briefly say something about the tree committee. 410 00:36:29,250 --> 00:36:36,130 We're going to have kind of a work at hand and hand with Jeff Tyler at the H.I. 411 00:36:36,350 --> 00:36:46,910 Meaning the purpose of that is to try to come up with a policy for a council for tree trimming and 412 00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:54,490 So we can get our snow plows down some of the roads in Powell without losing our side view mirrors. 413 00:36:55,270 --> 00:37:02,550 Now it sounds simple but we actually shot a video the other day and the plow can't even get within eight ten feet of the curb. 414 00:37:03,350 --> 00:37:11,910 The limbs are coming out so we are assembling a list of the HOAs to find out who's responsible for the maintenance of them. 415 00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:20,270 and to come up with an action plan to get it done sooner than later. 416 00:37:20,810 --> 00:37:22,290 We had a meeting on Monday here. 417 00:37:23,690 --> 00:37:30,150 So I forget the date of the HOA meeting, but I think it's like October 23rd or 2nd. 418 00:37:30,330 --> 00:37:31,070 It's pretty good off that. 419 00:37:31,970 --> 00:37:40,230 So that's kind of our goal to present to them and get a matrix of who's responsible in wet neighborhoods and to get this done. 420 00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:45,870 So, I thought I put that on the record, I don't have the other business, anyone else? 421 00:37:46,070 --> 00:37:52,130 Just to add on to that, I think you had requested, you know, what feedback we've gotten from the associations, 422 00:37:52,370 --> 00:37:56,990 and I can't remember the total number, but we've only heard responses back from seven. 423 00:37:57,390 --> 00:38:02,710 So, if your HOA is interested or you have networks of other people, 424 00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:06,410 we haven't heard from everybody, and would like to get as much response from everybody, 425 00:38:06,410 --> 00:38:10,770 because they kind of create another uniform program throughout the city. 426 00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:13,970 Could you share out like who you did here back from? 427 00:38:14,570 --> 00:38:16,210 Yeah, I don't have them. Yeah, not anybody. 428 00:38:16,570 --> 00:38:18,250 We have a golf village. 429 00:38:20,190 --> 00:38:23,950 Let me write the chase. 430 00:38:25,450 --> 00:38:26,770 I have a long second. 431 00:38:27,490 --> 00:38:29,210 I was going to say, I was going to say, I'm over at Falcon Ridge. 432 00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:31,510 I get right on pages if they hadn't. 433 00:38:32,930 --> 00:38:33,410 The 434 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:38,360 chase, Falcon Ridge. 435 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,820 Goal Village, Granchire, Murphy Park, Rutherford Estates, and Woods of Pell. 436 00:38:46,220 --> 00:38:47,260 We got some work to do. 437 00:38:47,980 --> 00:38:48,880 Anything else? 438 00:38:50,140 --> 00:38:50,740 Very good. 439 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:52,320 Can we enjoy? 440 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:53,480 Enjoy.