1
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:26,479
Good afternoon and welcome. I'll call

2
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,799
this meeting to order. Uh, I'd like to

3
00:01:26,479 --> 00:01:30,159
welcome the public, my fellow council

4
00:01:28,799 --> 00:01:31,680
members, the media, and anyone who is

5
00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:33,600
joining us in person electronically for

6
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,520
this committee, the whole meeting today.

7
00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,079
I'm councelor Phil Prrenen from W 2, and

8
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,600
I will be today's chair. Today's agenda

9
00:01:38,079 --> 00:01:42,079
lists all the items before committee for

10
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:45,360
consideration. The recommended motions

11
00:01:42,079 --> 00:01:47,119
on today's agenda are shown in boldface.

12
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,880
It is important to note that any motion

13
00:01:47,119 --> 00:01:50,479
made at this meeting is not final until

14
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:53,200
the council meeting of September 8th,

15
00:01:50,479 --> 00:01:55,280
2026, at which time the council may

16
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,720
approve, amend, defer, or otherwise

17
00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,399
change the motion made by this

18
00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,479
committee.

19
00:01:58,399 --> 00:02:01,759
The agenda has been published on our

20
00:02:00,479 --> 00:02:03,680
website and this meeting is being

21
00:02:01,759 --> 00:02:05,119
livereamed and any participation in the

22
00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,040
meeting proceedings will become part of

23
00:02:05,119 --> 00:02:08,399
the public record.

24
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,920
The recording from the meeting will be

25
00:02:08,399 --> 00:02:11,599
live streamed on county's website and

26
00:02:09,920 --> 00:02:12,959
can be viewed by selecting live stream

27
00:02:11,599 --> 00:02:16,720
meetings on the bottom right of the

28
00:02:12,959 --> 00:02:18,720
county's homepage at the county.ca.

29
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,040
Under agenda item six, I will be asking

30
00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:23,200
for comments from the audience on any

31
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,480
item listed on the agenda. Today we have

32
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,640
one registered comment from the

33
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:30,080
audience. If anyone present would like

34
00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:32,959
to speak at this section of the agenda,

35
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:35,120
you are welcome to do so for 3 minutes.

36
00:02:32,959 --> 00:02:36,319
A reminder that if you participate, your

37
00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,840
name will be included in the committee

38
00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:39,760
minutes and form part of the public

39
00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:42,480
record and posted on the county's

40
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,239
website. In the event of a fire, please

41
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,400
use the two applicable fire exits in

42
00:02:44,239 --> 00:02:49,440
Shire Hall or wherever you're tuning in

43
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:51,280
from. For those in SH Hall council

44
00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,360
chambers, please mute and limit use of

45
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,280
your cell phones.

46
00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,840
Now, could I get a motion to confirm the

47
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,920
agenda, please?

48
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,400
» Councelor Inglesfer, second by Councelor

49
00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:01,200
Roberts.

50
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,560
» Uh, thank you. Thank you. It's an

51
00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,760
English store for Robert's motion that

52
00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,159
the agenda for the committee of the

53
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,120
whole meeting of August 27th, 2026 be

54
00:03:06,159 --> 00:03:10,239
confirmed.

55
00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:12,159
» All in favor and that carries.

56
00:03:10,239 --> 00:03:14,800
Disclosure pecuniary interest in the

57
00:03:12,159 --> 00:03:17,680
general nature thereof.

58
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,840
Seeing none, thank you. Uh moving along

59
00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:22,239
to presentations. So today we have Staff

60
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,760
Sergeant Jeffrey McKennon, detachment

61
00:03:22,239 --> 00:03:25,599
commander and the honorable S. Casey

62
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,000
Hill, chair of the OP Detachment Board,

63
00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:30,000
to address council to present the Prince

64
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,319
Edward County OP Detachments Board's

65
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,959
annual report to council. Welcome,

66
00:03:32,319 --> 00:03:37,200
gentlemen. Uh,

67
00:03:34,959 --> 00:03:39,280
you have 20 minutes

68
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:42,280
and we'll when you start whenever you're

69
00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,280
ready.

70
00:05:05,759 --> 00:05:11,840
an April 2025 discussion paper, the

71
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:15,360
board set objectives and priorities

72
00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:18,720
under section 68 of the statute

73
00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:22,560
uh specifically uh intimate partner

74
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:27,120
violence or IPV, impaired operation of

75
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:30,240
vehicles and uh vessels and the

76
00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:33,840
interdiction of prohibited drugs

77
00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:36,800
and we look toward evidence-based

78
00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:38,720
interdiction strategies. Who, when,

79
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,639
where, and why were these offenses being

80
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,960
committed? And how most effectively

81
00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:44,960
could these crimes be prevented or

82
00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:48,479
discovered and dealt with before the

83
00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:51,039
courts? On the subject of inter uh

84
00:05:48,479 --> 00:05:54,000
intimate partner violence, an ongoing

85
00:05:51,039 --> 00:05:56,160
societal epidemic, the board reviewed an

86
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,759
intimate partner violence investigative

87
00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:02,800
report prepared by the detachment and OP

88
00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:04,720
analysts. This led to consultation with

89
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,919
the detachment commander on a number of

90
00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:11,199
issues, including in 2025,

91
00:06:07,919 --> 00:06:14,160
the role of NSF or non-fatal

92
00:06:11,199 --> 00:06:17,120
strangulation in domestic abuse

93
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:19,360
instances as a predictor of future

94
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,600
domestic violence.

95
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,680
On the subject of impaired operation,

96
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,639
the Supreme Court of Canada has recently

97
00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:29,360
said, quote, "Each year in Canada, drunk

98
00:06:26,639 --> 00:06:32,080
drivers cause great suffering and take

99
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,759
away lives. Impaired driving offenses

100
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:37,840
unfortunately remain among the most

101
00:06:33,759 --> 00:06:39,919
prevalent offenses in this country.

102
00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:42,000
Death, injury, and damage to property

103
00:06:39,919 --> 00:06:45,280
caused by motor vehicle drivers impaired

104
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,880
by alcohol are truly preventable

105
00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:49,680
occurrences.

106
00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:52,000
In 2025, with the board's specific

107
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:55,759
encouragement and the support of the

108
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:58,479
detachment commander, mandatory alcohol

109
00:06:55,759 --> 00:07:00,560
screening or MAS

110
00:06:58,479 --> 00:07:03,440
became a mainstay road safety

111
00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:08,160
enforcement initiative to remove from

112
00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:10,240
our roads in and out of county motorists

113
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:14,479
floating impaired driving laws and

114
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:16,880
selfishly endangering public safety. MAS

115
00:07:14,479 --> 00:07:20,240
had previously been an underutilized

116
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:22,880
enforcement tool in the county. The MAS

117
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:25,840
strategy has proven successful around

118
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:28,080
the world in deterring and identifying

119
00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:30,000
impaired drivers.

120
00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,919
The board's priorities, as discussed

121
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:35,199
here, did not, of course, detract from

122
00:07:31,919 --> 00:07:37,680
the detachment commitment to other

123
00:07:35,199 --> 00:07:40,800
crimes being solved. Property offenses,

124
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:43,599
fraud, and highway traffic act offenses

125
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:47,039
threatening public safety.

126
00:07:43,599 --> 00:07:50,240
The uh board during 2025 regularly

127
00:07:47,039 --> 00:07:53,120
reviewed detachment reports on uh

128
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:55,280
enforcement matters.

129
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,680
Prince Ed County remains a safe

130
00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,599
jurisdiction and you will see that I

131
00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:03,199
think from the statistics filed by the

132
00:07:59,599 --> 00:08:05,599
detachment commander in your materials.

133
00:08:03,199 --> 00:08:07,759
I will not go over the bullet points on

134
00:08:05,599 --> 00:08:09,599
slides nine and 10. You have them there

135
00:08:07,759 --> 00:08:12,879
showing some of the activities of the

136
00:08:09,599 --> 00:08:16,080
board. But I will uh turn to one matter.

137
00:08:12,879 --> 00:08:19,280
You may not all have met the detachment

138
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:22,800
commander. Um John Hatch, as you know,

139
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:26,240
retired in 2025, a popular and effective

140
00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:30,560
detachment commander under section 68 of

141
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:32,800
the uh act. The board was a participant

142
00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:35,680
in hiring a new permanent detachment

143
00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:37,680
commander. Staff Sergeant Jeff McKinnon

144
00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:41,120
was an experienced detachment commander

145
00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:43,200
elsewhere in the east region and he also

146
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:46,000
had served as a constable at one point

147
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:49,519
in Prince Edward County before receiving

148
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:52,880
promotions and policing outside the uh

149
00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:54,720
the county. He has worked effortless

150
00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,399
effortlessly and cooperatively with the

151
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,720
board and we're fortunate to have him

152
00:08:56,399 --> 00:09:01,360
here as the permanent detachment

153
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,680
commander. I would ask Jeff to present

154
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,360
the second part of our 2025 annual

155
00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:07,279
report after which I'm available to

156
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:10,279
respond to questions as is he. Thank

157
00:09:07,279 --> 00:09:10,279
you.

158
00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,720
» Your worship esteemed counsel. Um good

159
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,160
afternoon everyone. It's my pleasure to

160
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:22,000
present the Prince Edward County

161
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:23,680
Detachment's 2025 annual report. The

162
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,160
report provides an overview of our crime

163
00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,839
trends, traffic initiatives, community

164
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,440
well-being efforts, and many

165
00:09:27,839 --> 00:09:31,839
accomplishments achieved by our members

166
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:34,160
over the past year. It also serves as a

167
00:09:31,839 --> 00:09:37,839
final report on the progress made under

168
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:40,399
the 2023 to 2025 Prince Edward County

169
00:09:37,839 --> 00:09:41,760
Detachment Action Plan. Before

170
00:09:40,399 --> 00:09:43,760
discussing our results, I'd like to

171
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,000
recognize the dedicated members of the

172
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,760
Prince Edward County Detachment. Every

173
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,760
day they demonstrate professionalism,

174
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,600
integrity, compassion, and commitment

175
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,080
while serving the residents and visitors

176
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,760
of this community. I'm extremely proud

177
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,839
of their efforts and the positive impact

178
00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,399
they continue to have throughout Prince

179
00:09:57,839 --> 00:10:02,000
Edward County. While the detailed

180
00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:04,320
statistics are contained within the

181
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,680
report, several key results stand out.

182
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:09,200
In 2025, violent crime decreased, victim

183
00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:11,279
assistance referral acceptance

184
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:14,160
increased, and our traffic enforcement

185
00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:16,000
efforts expanded significantly. Our

186
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,839
members conducted more enforcement aimed

187
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,760
at impaired driving, distracted driving,

188
00:10:17,839 --> 00:10:20,959
and seat belt compliance while

189
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,519
continuing to support community

190
00:10:20,959 --> 00:10:25,839
well-being through anti-fraud education,

191
00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:28,480
mental health partnerships, and

192
00:10:25,839 --> 00:10:29,680
extensive community engagement. We also

193
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,760
invested in our people through

194
00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:33,279
specialized training opportunities,

195
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,000
helping ensure Prince Edward County

196
00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:37,279
detachment remains well positioned to

197
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,800
meet the evolving needs of our

198
00:10:37,279 --> 00:10:42,959
communities throughout 2025. remain we

199
00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,959
remained committed to strengthening

200
00:10:42,959 --> 00:10:47,440
relationships within or with community

201
00:10:44,959 --> 00:10:49,839
organizations, municipal leaders, social

202
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,440
service agencies, and residents. These

203
00:10:49,839 --> 00:10:53,680
partnerships are critical to effective

204
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,279
policing and play an important role in

205
00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:57,360
promoting safer and healthier

206
00:10:55,279 --> 00:10:59,279
communities. One example of this

207
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,839
collaborative approach was our work with

208
00:10:59,279 --> 00:11:03,600
local financial institutions to deliver

209
00:11:01,839 --> 00:11:06,079
anti-fraud presentations throughout the

210
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:08,079
year. These sessions provided valuable

211
00:11:06,079 --> 00:11:09,839
information to residents and helped

212
00:11:08,079 --> 00:11:12,000
increase awareness of fraud trends

213
00:11:09,839 --> 00:11:13,200
affecting our communities. The positive

214
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,320
response of these initiatives

215
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,560
demonstrated the importance of

216
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:19,519
education, prevention, and reducing

217
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:20,880
victimization and building public trust.

218
00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:22,240
We also continued our active

219
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,079
participation in the Prince Edward

220
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,160
County Community Safety and Well-being

221
00:11:24,079 --> 00:11:28,000
Committee. By working collaboratively

222
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,240
with our partners, we were able to

223
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,680
identify emerging concerns, address

224
00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,040
community priorities, and develop

225
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:35,440
solutions that improve safety and

226
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,040
well-being for everyone.

227
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,040
The detachment experienced a reduction

228
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,640
in violent crime while also seeing an

229
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,200
increase in the acceptance of victim

230
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:45,279
referral assistance or victim assistance

231
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,720
referrals. These outcomes speak to our

232
00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:48,720
commitment to providing compassionate

233
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,560
victim- centered service and ensuring

234
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,959
those impacted by crime receive the

235
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:54,640
support they need. Our victim services

236
00:11:52,959 --> 00:11:56,800
partners continue to play a critical

237
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:59,040
role in helping individuals and families

238
00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,320
navigate difficult situations and I

239
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,720
would like to acknowledge and thank them

240
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,160
for their ongoing contributions. While

241
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,079
we did see an increase in intimate

242
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,959
partner violence occurrences during

243
00:12:06,079 --> 00:12:11,200
2025, our response remained focused,

244
00:12:08,959 --> 00:12:12,720
professional, and victim- centered.

245
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,560
Through the efforts of our detachment

246
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,079
abuse issues investigator and our

247
00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:17,920
continued partnership with alternatives

248
00:12:16,079 --> 00:12:20,000
for women along with other social

249
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,360
service partners, we remain committed to

250
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,720
supporting victims, increasing

251
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,800
awareness, and holding offenders

252
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,560
accountable. Intimate partner violence

253
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,480
continues to be a significant community

254
00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:30,959
issue, and we remain dedicated to

255
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,480
addressing it through education,

256
00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:33,760
prevention, enforcement, and

257
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,560
collaboration with our community

258
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,560
partners. Traffic safety also remained a

259
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:40,399
key priority throughout the year.

260
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:41,839
members conducted increased enforcement

261
00:12:40,399 --> 00:12:43,920
targeting seat belt compliance,

262
00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:46,240
distracted driving, impaired driving,

263
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,560
and other dangerous driving behaviors. A

264
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:51,200
continued focus on mandatory alcohol

265
00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:52,639
screening contributed to identifying and

266
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,200
removing impaired drivers from our

267
00:12:52,639 --> 00:12:57,440
roadway, helping reduce risks to all who

268
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,120
travel within Prince Edward County.

269
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,639
Despite these efforts, we observed an

270
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,120
increase in the severity of motor

271
00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:05,519
vehicle collisions. This highlights the

272
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,519
ongoing need for education, enforcement,

273
00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:09,120
personal responsibility, and continued

274
00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:11,519
collaboration to improve road safety

275
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,200
throughout our community. The detachment

276
00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:15,839
also remains strong a strong supporter

277
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,680
of the impact program. This partnership

278
00:13:15,839 --> 00:13:19,680
has strengthened our ability to respond

279
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:22,160
effectively to mental health related

280
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:23,920
calls for service by combining police

281
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,920
resources with specialized mental health

282
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,839
expertise. Together, we are helping

283
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,760
ensure individuals in crisis receive the

284
00:13:27,839 --> 00:13:32,399
appropriate support while maintaining

285
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:34,320
community safety. Community engagement

286
00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:37,279
remains at the heart of everything we

287
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:39,040
do. In 2025, our members increased their

288
00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:41,440
participation in community events,

289
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,440
public outreach activities, creating

290
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,040
opportunities to build trust, strengthen

291
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,839
relationships, and engage directly with

292
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:49,360
the residents. Investing in our me in

293
00:13:47,839 --> 00:13:51,200
our members also remained a priority

294
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,959
throughout the year. Professional

295
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,279
development opportunities, specialized

296
00:13:52,959 --> 00:13:56,880
training, and temporary assignments

297
00:13:55,279 --> 00:13:58,560
helped ensure our members continue to

298
00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,800
grow and develop the skills required to

299
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:03,120
meet the evolving demands of policing.

300
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,120
During 2025, one member had the

301
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,639
opportunity to work with the human

302
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,160
trafficking unit, while two members

303
00:14:06,639 --> 00:14:10,000
participated in temporary assignments

304
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,600
with the community street crime unit.

305
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,760
These experience bring valuable

306
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,120
expertise back to our detachment and

307
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,720
strengthen our ability to address

308
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,399
complex investigations within our

309
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,040
communities.

310
00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:23,279
We will 2026 will be an important year

311
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:26,240
for the Prince County detachment. We

312
00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:28,320
will be introducing the 2026 to 2029

313
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,600
detachment action plan. That's the first

314
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,600
action plan developed under the comm

315
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:34,240
community the new community safety and

316
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,839
policing act. We have worked closely

317
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,600
with the Prince Edward County Detachment

318
00:14:35,839 --> 00:14:39,199
Board, community stakeholders and

319
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,120
residents to ensure the priorities

320
00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:42,720
identified in the plan reflect the needs

321
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,680
and the e and the expectations of the

322
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:47,440
communities we serve. In conclusion, as

323
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,440
policing continues to evolve and new

324
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,040
challenges emerge, one thing remains

325
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,519
constant, the dedication of members of

326
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,040
the Prince County Detachment. We remain

327
00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:56,720
committed to serving our communities,

328
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,800
protecting our citizens, upholding the

329
00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,160
law, and preserving public safety

330
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,920
through strong partnerships,

331
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,760
professional service, and continued

332
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,199
focus on community and well-being. We

333
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,880
will work together to build a safer,

334
00:15:05,199 --> 00:15:08,959
stronger, more resilient Prince Ever

335
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,320
County. Thank you for your continued

336
00:15:08,959 --> 00:15:13,279
support. Thank you for the opportunity

337
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:16,880
to present the 2025 Prince Edward County

338
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:18,880
Detachment Annual Board Report.

339
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,199
» Thank you, gentlemen. Very much. Very

340
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,120
well done. Very good report. I will turn

341
00:15:21,199 --> 00:15:25,600
it over to the committee to see if they

342
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,279
have any questions. So, and looking like

343
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,519
questions. So, you both might better get

344
00:15:27,279 --> 00:15:31,360
up to the microphone and then uh we'll

345
00:15:29,519 --> 00:15:33,440
start over here with councelor Brainy.

346
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:36,240
Thank you, Chair Prince. And I thank

347
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,600
you, Jeff. Um I just wanted people

348
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,320
around the table to have an

349
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,240
understanding of how fortunate we are

350
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,839
here with this attachment, Prince

351
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,160
County, to have someone of your caliber

352
00:15:43,839 --> 00:15:47,680
and also uh what Casey brings to the

353
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,480
table. when you think about the

354
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:52,320
transferable uh experiences both of you

355
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:55,199
bring to this detachment, we're in great

356
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:57,279
hands. And I I've certainly seen the uh

357
00:15:55,199 --> 00:16:00,560
the positive effects that uh that that

358
00:15:57,279 --> 00:16:02,160
that the board, the detachment uh it's

359
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,759
probably one of the most professional

360
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,240
ones I've ever served on. The

361
00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:07,920
collegiality is uh is through the roof.

362
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,399
I think Council Roberts and I would

363
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,160
agree. It's a it's a it's an honor, a

364
00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:14,639
privilege to serve on it, and I I thank

365
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:16,959
both of you for all the work you do.

366
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:19,440
» Thank you, Councelor Bry. Councelor

367
00:16:16,959 --> 00:16:21,279
Roberts.

368
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,519
» Uh, Mr. Chair, I don't so much have a

369
00:16:21,279 --> 00:16:26,480
question. Well, like councelor Brainy, I

370
00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:29,040
have a just a an appreciation, I guess

371
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:31,600
you could say. Um, I just want to

372
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,959
express my appreciation for what I have

373
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,560
witnessed is the incredible

374
00:16:32,959 --> 00:16:37,360
collaboration

375
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:40,000
between our detachment commander and our

376
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,519
board chair. It's impressive. I've been

377
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,040
around a lot of private sector

378
00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:44,959
situations,

379
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,480
public sector situations, but the way

380
00:16:44,959 --> 00:16:49,120
you two collaborate, you don't always

381
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,560
agree, but you collaborate and you work

382
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,680
through problems and it's deeply

383
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:58,000
appreciated, believe me.

384
00:16:53,680 --> 00:17:00,079
Also, um I just want to say that when I

385
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,360
stop our patrol officers and say hello

386
00:17:00,079 --> 00:17:04,000
in front of the regent, you know, where

387
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,919
there's a parking space or uh you know,

388
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,720
have encounters with patrol officers or

389
00:17:05,919 --> 00:17:12,000
whatever, go on a ride along.

390
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:15,520
I have to say, I mean, I've had military

391
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:18,959
exposure. I have to say that our

392
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:21,120
police officers are terrific, cordial,

393
00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:23,360
professional, often a bit funny, which

394
00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:25,280
is always a relief. Uh, but they're

395
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:26,880
great.

396
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,480
It's a gold standard, I think, for the

397
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,480
province of Ontario. So, I thank you for

398
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:33,039
that.

399
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,562
For folks that are interested in police

400
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:37,039
services, I don't know how many

401
00:17:34,562 --> 00:17:39,200
[clears throat] people are, but um I

402
00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:41,360
attend the Ontario Association of Police

403
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,679
Service Board meetings all across

404
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:45,440
Eastern Ontario.

405
00:17:43,679 --> 00:17:47,520
And I think they have some kind of

406
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,360
archive of the meetings and the papers

407
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,880
that are uh tabled there and the

408
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:53,039
discussions.

409
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:56,400
And if the public is interested, look

410
00:17:53,039 --> 00:17:58,640
that outfit up because it is really, you

411
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,039
mentioned intimate partner violence, uh,

412
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,559
human trafficking, Casey, we've we've

413
00:18:01,039 --> 00:18:05,120
heard a lot of good presentations,

414
00:18:02,559 --> 00:18:07,840
including from the oversight body in

415
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:09,360
Queens Park at at those meetings. So,

416
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,880
it's it's worth looking up if you're

417
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:14,919
interested in police services and our

418
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,919
own community safety.

419
00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:20,559
The last thing I'll say,

420
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:23,760
Commander, is please convey to your

421
00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:26,160
detachment and your officers a huge

422
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,720
thank you for your service and be safe

423
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,880
out there.

424
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:34,200
» Thank you, Councelor Roberts. Uh,

425
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,200
Councelor Panel,

426
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:41,200
» Thank you for your presentation. And I

427
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:43,760
kind of want to reiterate what a lot of

428
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:46,720
people have said. I got to be honest.

429
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:50,960
When uh

430
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:55,360
Mr. Hatch left the department, I for one

431
00:18:50,960 --> 00:19:01,520
had serious concerns. Could anybody ever

432
00:18:55,360 --> 00:19:04,960
take his place? I'm happy to say so far

433
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:08,640
I think you've filled the shoes and I

434
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:12,080
see even newer ideas coming forth and I

435
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,840
think that says a lot for the detach

436
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:18,080
detachment

437
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:21,679
and the board. So thank you very much.

438
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:24,480
The only quick question I'd like to ask,

439
00:19:21,679 --> 00:19:26,960
I happened to be

440
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,840
at a local bar

441
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,600
recently,

442
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:34,960
» Okay?

443
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:39,280
» And uh I saw somebody taken away from it

444
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:41,039
on a mobility scooter.

445
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,200
I'm just wondering, have you ever had

446
00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:46,799
the opportunity?

447
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:50,160
Can they be charged if they're impaired

448
00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:52,799
driving down the center of the street

449
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,559
» On a mobility scooter?

450
00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:54,960
» Yeah. If it's motorized. Yes.

451
00:19:54,559 --> 00:19:56,480
» Yeah.

452
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,200
» Same with a lawn mower, like a riding

453
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,000
mower. Oh,

454
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,080
» Okay.

455
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,240
» Long as it's motorized. Yes.

456
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,320
» Thanks. So, for those following along,

457
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:07,039
Councelor Panel has a mobility scooter

458
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:10,000
for sale. He's looking He's looking for

459
00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:12,080
a bicycle.

460
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,840
» Opened up. [laughter]

461
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,559
microphone. Councelor Panel. Uh,

462
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:20,240
councelor McNotton.

463
00:20:16,559 --> 00:20:22,480
» Thank you. Um, and uh, I I'll join the

464
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,559
choir and say thank you for the service

465
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:27,520
that the necessary service that you

466
00:20:24,559 --> 00:20:30,880
provide. I am interested in um, a couple

467
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:33,840
of things. One of which is Oh, and thank

468
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,600
you for the in the uh continuation of

469
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,159
that community presence, which I think

470
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,720
is extremely valuable when we see police

471
00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:42,880
at local events where they can interact

472
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,360
with children and they can interact in a

473
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,360
really positive way to build trust. Uh I

474
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:50,159
think that's uh it's wonderful to see

475
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:53,440
that continuing. um community policing.

476
00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:55,520
I think that that presence is uh

477
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:58,400
gratefully received certainly by me and

478
00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:01,600
I think by many of us and uh I think it

479
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:05,039
goes uh it builds a a stronger

480
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:07,200
relationship. So thanks. Um I did want

481
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:12,080
to ask about so it looked like from your

482
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:14,400
report that the um as um violent crime

483
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:17,039
rates falling with the exception of

484
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:19,919
domestic violence and that was very uh

485
00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:21,840
interesting to hear about the uh the

486
00:21:19,919 --> 00:21:24,240
program regarding

487
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:28,720
um the [clears throat] program that you

488
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:31,600
mentioned regarding uh the um indicators

489
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:35,200
for future domestic violence uh

490
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:37,919
worsening. Um I was it took me back to

491
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:41,280
John Hatch's first report in this room

492
00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:42,720
eight years ago almost not quite uh

493
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,679
seven and a half or we're going to split

494
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:50,159
hairs in which um it it was hot on the

495
00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:51,919
heels of a report about um sexual

496
00:21:50,159 --> 00:21:55,919
assaults being dismissed before they

497
00:21:51,919 --> 00:21:58,080
went to investigation across Canada. And

498
00:21:55,919 --> 00:21:59,840
uh we talked at that time about that and

499
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:02,559
he said, "Yeah, I think there are cases

500
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,880
that uh across or across Ontario that

501
00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:06,720
have to be reopened and potentially we

502
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,799
have to review our standards." I I don't

503
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:12,320
remember the answer specifically, but

504
00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:14,720
you did mention um but you did mention

505
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,640
the redu you did mention a reduction in

506
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:20,720
sex assaults and I just wanted to

507
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:23,520
understand if that was the reporting

508
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:26,559
uh across the board or just the

509
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:30,400
reporting that resulted in the cases

510
00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:33,679
being processed and whether there's like

511
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,760
what what bar was being met, whether it

512
00:22:33,679 --> 00:22:37,280
was reporting at

513
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,960
every single report, every single

514
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,640
complaint that came in or complaints

515
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,159
that we're moving forward.

516
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,320
» I think it's a combination of both. It

517
00:22:42,159 --> 00:22:45,919
could be reporting. There's always that

518
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,080
when it comes to sexual assaults, there

519
00:22:45,919 --> 00:22:49,840
could be a the disparity between

520
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,919
reports. I mean, what we have dealt

521
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,840
with, there's been fewer coming in,

522
00:22:51,919 --> 00:22:56,960
» Fewer so fewer complaints.

523
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:59,039
» Yes. But that caveat is that could be

524
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:03,799
lack of reporting. people still scared

525
00:22:59,039 --> 00:23:03,799
to come forward and that's why the

526
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,880
partners you don't

527
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,919
makes the proof

528
00:23:13,919 --> 00:23:15,679
» Approachable.

529
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,120
» Yes.

530
00:23:15,679 --> 00:23:20,159
» D. So it's fewer initial complaints

531
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:21,039
right from the getgo.

532
00:23:20,159 --> 00:23:22,960
» Yes.

533
00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:25,360
» It could be a good indicator. It could

534
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,960
be what you've said is perhaps

535
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:29,520
discomfort with the entire

536
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,640
» Yeah. Yeah. I Well, I hope it's the

537
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,880
former.

538
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:35,039
» Thank you for answering that question,

539
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,799
» Councelor Go.

540
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:38,720
» Thank you. Can you guys hear me? Okay,

541
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:41,679
» We can hear you loud and clear.

542
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,960
» All right, fantastic. Um, thank you for

543
00:23:41,679 --> 00:23:45,280
this report. It's pretty good.

544
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:48,559
Excellent. Love it. Uh, what evidence

545
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:50,320
does the OPP have regarding um human

546
00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:53,360
trafficking and its connection to

547
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,679
organized crime here in the county? and

548
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:57,679
um what preventive measures are

549
00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:59,760
currently in place?

550
00:23:57,679 --> 00:24:00,880
» Well, each region has a human

551
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,159
trafficking team.

552
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,520
» Can I just get you just to speak into

553
00:24:02,159 --> 00:24:04,240
the mic just a little bit better?

554
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,320
Thanks.

555
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,520
» So, there's not much data from the

556
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,280
county when it comes to human

557
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,880
trafficking, although we can't be naive

558
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,960
to think that it's not happening, but we

559
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,120
do have a human trafficking unit and

560
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:18,159
they're out of Kingston. That's our East

561
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:19,679
Region unit. Um, I could go to them and

562
00:24:18,159 --> 00:24:20,799
see what we're getting in the county,

563
00:24:19,679 --> 00:24:22,799
but nothing's been brought to my

564
00:24:20,799 --> 00:24:24,799
attention regarding those numbers. And

565
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:26,799
it is a very,

566
00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:28,640
I guess, secretive crime when it is

567
00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:31,200
happening. It's hard to identify and you

568
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,960
have to have some specialized training

569
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,159
to be able to deal with those types of

570
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,799
occurrence and that's why we have the

571
00:24:34,159 --> 00:24:38,559
unit. But nothing off the top of my head

572
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:40,880
right now is an issue right now in

573
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:42,400
Prince Edward County.

574
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,320
» Can I just get a quick followup?

575
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:48,480
» Yeah, go ahead.

576
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:51,120
Um, but there is a presence of

577
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,880
biker gangs here in the county.

578
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:54,880
» Yes, there is. There

579
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,520
» Is. And you guys are aware of it. And

580
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,760
» Yes, and we we do have a a biker

581
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,520
enforcement unit and we have an officer

582
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,840
that's assigned to this air like this

583
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,600
area of the province and they that is

584
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,559
monitored routinely

585
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,480
» And any intelligence is covered off by

586
00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:12,240
that unit.

587
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,000
» Okay. Thank you so much,

588
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,400
» Councelor Maynard.

589
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:20,480
» Um, thank you. Thank you for the uh for

590
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:22,720
the presentation that um and just to um

591
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,960
kind of expand on on some of the things

592
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,200
that we uh spoke about after the last

593
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,039
police services board meeting that I

594
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,720
attended. I often watch them, but I

595
00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:35,039
haven't had really a chance to attend.

596
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:37,039
But the um the you will be happy to know

597
00:25:35,039 --> 00:25:39,039
because you know that when we talk about

598
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:40,880
a community presence right that um it's

599
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:42,799
it's this is a big geography and we've

600
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,360
got a large population that you know

601
00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:48,559
sometimes you know I will say feels a

602
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:51,679
little underserved but I did drive uh

603
00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:54,640
yesterday from Rossmore to the bottom of

604
00:25:51,679 --> 00:25:56,799
the underdog hill at 60 kilometers an

605
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,120
hour behind a line of traffic. So, you

606
00:25:56,799 --> 00:25:59,360
know, but um [laughter]

607
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:00,559
um

608
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,799
» And no scooters

609
00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:05,600
» And no [clears throat] and no scooters.

610
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:07,600
» Um so that's, you know, it's good, but

611
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,200
we, you know, I think we need um a

612
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,880
little more, you know, a little more

613
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:15,840
attention. Um the impaired driving, I

614
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:21,279
think I mentioned this maybe too, but um

615
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:24,799
we kind of uh bear the fruits of the

616
00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:29,120
um alcohol uh based tourism sector that

617
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:31,279
we have. And as I said then uh

618
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:34,559
what are the measures and how do we um

619
00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:36,880
how do we go about ensuring because it

620
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:39,120
is the law that you are not to overserve

621
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:42,080
someone and that you are they are

622
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:43,520
actually responsible as well. So, how do

623
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,880
we, you know, is there and I know,

624
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,720
right, if they're going from place to

625
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,760
place or if they're at a large venue

626
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:52,240
that has multiple um multiple

627
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,480
bartenders, but that's their

628
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,960
responsibility, right? And I, you know,

629
00:26:54,480 --> 00:27:00,400
so I just um

630
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:02,320
I mean, it's just ripe for the for that

631
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:06,960
to happen in the environment that we

632
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:09,279
have. So, I'd like to see that. uh you

633
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:13,039
know because we know impaired driving is

634
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:16,320
is a a big problem but I think there's

635
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:18,640
issues other than just um you well I

636
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,320
guess the person is always responsible

637
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,720
but there's others that are responsible

638
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,559
and legally responsible to make sure

639
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,480
that they are not overserving and that

640
00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:28,559
the person either is not impaired when

641
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,600
they come in and certainly are not

642
00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:33,520
impaired when when they leave. So if I

643
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,520
you know maybe over the next year we can

644
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,760
you know we can see some some movement

645
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,039
uh some movement on that. And the other

646
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,640
thing about the collaboration in the

647
00:27:39,039 --> 00:27:42,880
north and I spoke about that too is we

648
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,880
do with our other um emergency services

649
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,000
and our health units and stuff the

650
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:50,240
collaboration with our um with our uh

651
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,400
detachments either Quinny West. I know

652
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,399
it's a little harder with a with a um

653
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,440
with a with Balo, right? Because there's

654
00:27:54,399 --> 00:28:00,559
is a city force, but to uh to to make

655
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:03,760
better use of that um of that friendly

656
00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:05,440
line that we that we share in uh in

657
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,600
policing because you just can't be

658
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:11,520
everywhere, right? I mean you cannot be

659
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:13,279
everywhere and it's a huge geography

660
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,039
» And those same impaired driving you know

661
00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:16,799
if I could if you talk about the other

662
00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:19,039
Belleville police service and Quinny

663
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:20,799
West we do do joint force projects with

664
00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:22,640
them but they are seeing the same

665
00:28:20,799 --> 00:28:26,240
increase as impaired driving as as we

666
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:28,880
are it seems across jurisdictions that

667
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,799
those numbers are on the rise and is

668
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,559
trying to figure out why

669
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,240
» But even like even for some you know

670
00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:36,480
speeding enforcement or something right

671
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,720
I mean because we do right with EMS,

672
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:41,120
right? Like we pay into a fund that, you

673
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,760
know, is run by Hastings, Hastings

674
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:46,720
County. Somehow I would like to see more

675
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:49,679
collaboration with our um with our

676
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:52,880
partners, you know, in Brighton and and

677
00:28:49,679 --> 00:28:55,039
Quinny West and Bavville.

678
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:58,880
I I know we have one with the with the u

679
00:28:55,039 --> 00:29:01,760
with the Tindga Mohawk Reserve. So, um

680
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,120
something similar.

681
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,840
Thank you,

682
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,760
» Mayor Ferguson. Thank you very much, Mr.

683
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:12,799
Chair. Thank you very much for the um

684
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:14,960
the clear, concise presentation. And um

685
00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:19,039
I just want to say we've had a we as

686
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:21,840
council um have had a terrific

687
00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:25,679
relationship with the OP and as we're on

688
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:28,559
the cusp of uh an election after which

689
00:29:25,679 --> 00:29:30,559
there are likely to be a number of new

690
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:34,159
faces around the uh around the

691
00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:37,520
horseshoe. please um please come and

692
00:29:34,159 --> 00:29:39,919
introduce yourself as um you know so

693
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,640
that relationship can continue because

694
00:29:39,919 --> 00:29:44,960
it it's really been terrific to remove

695
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,600
some of the mystery and understand fully

696
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:51,279
what the OP does for the municipality

697
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:53,520
particularly given the um you know the

698
00:29:51,279 --> 00:29:55,279
budget consideration but well done

699
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,360
today. Thank you very much for for

700
00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:59,840
attending.

701
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:02,240
Uh, Councelor Roberts,

702
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,159
» I saw Casey leaning into the microphone,

703
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,960
so maybe he's going to address what I

704
00:30:04,159 --> 00:30:06,559
was going to say.

705
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,919
» Believe of the chair. Could I add a

706
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:10,559
couple of points?

707
00:30:07,919 --> 00:30:13,600
» Go ahead. on the issue of impaired

708
00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:16,559
driving and the county having perhaps up

709
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,480
to a million tourists um come to this

710
00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:21,600
wonderful jurisdiction on an annual

711
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,520
basis. One might think that the majority

712
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,159
of those apprehended for impaired

713
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:30,960
operation of motor vehicles are from

714
00:30:26,159 --> 00:30:33,200
away tourists they're not. And that was

715
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:36,720
uh shown that it's locals throughout

716
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:39,279
2025. I can tell you that trend has

717
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,520
continued in 2026.

718
00:30:39,279 --> 00:30:44,080
So it would be a misapprehension to

719
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:47,039
think that it's others from out there

720
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,559
who are visiting who are the primary

721
00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:50,320
problem when it comes to impaired

722
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:52,720
operation.

723
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,399
on the issue of uh intimate partner

724
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,880
violence

725
00:30:54,399 --> 00:30:59,760
jumping out of 2025

726
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,600
just to tell you about 2026.

727
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,159
The detachment again has been looking

728
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,760
hard at the uh intimate partner violence

729
00:31:04,159 --> 00:31:08,000
statistics.

730
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,919
This is criminal law enforcement along

731
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:13,600
with community partners. The Supreme

732
00:31:09,919 --> 00:31:16,240
Court of Canada this year has uh for the

733
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:19,440
first time ever allowed civil actions

734
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:21,679
for something called coercive control

735
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,960
with in an intimate partner

736
00:31:21,679 --> 00:31:27,279
relationship. So now the civil courts as

737
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:31,440
well will be turning their eyes toward

738
00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:34,320
this problem. And lastly um within the

739
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,320
last month the federal parliament has

740
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:41,360
added to the criminal code section

741
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:45,919
264.01 01, a new crime called coercive

742
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:48,799
control within an intimate partner um

743
00:31:45,919 --> 00:31:51,360
relationship and it covers more than

744
00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:54,320
just physical. It need not be physical

745
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:56,240
abuse. It can be manipulation,

746
00:31:54,320 --> 00:32:01,440
isolation,

747
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:03,679
um threats. Um so again um Jeff's

748
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:06,640
officers will be trained over the next

749
00:32:03,679 --> 00:32:08,880
uh few months on this and this

750
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,440
particular provision is to come into

751
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:15,039
force no later than 2028.

752
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:17,919
So it like Ireland, England, Scotland

753
00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:19,760
and a number of the Australian states is

754
00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:22,960
going to continue to drill down on

755
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:25,039
intimate partner violence. Thank you.

756
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,760
» Thank you very much Coun. Yep. Go ahead,

757
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:27,919
Councelor Roberts.

758
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,120
» Thank you very much. Thank you, Casey.

759
00:32:27,919 --> 00:32:30,960
That's kind of what I was going to get

760
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,880
at. And it's important for people to

761
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,720
know that it's not tourists, although

762
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,760
there are spikes at Sandbanks and there

763
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:40,000
are situations, but overall it's county

764
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:43,679
folks. And the fastest growing

765
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:46,320
demographic when it comes to impairment

766
00:32:43,679 --> 00:32:49,679
either with any substance, drugs or

767
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:52,080
alcohol, is our county youth, our young

768
00:32:49,679 --> 00:32:54,880
people. And that's where a lot of

769
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,799
education needs to happen. The other

770
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,240
thing

771
00:32:56,799 --> 00:33:00,960
uh but I'll just I'll just leave it at

772
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,799
that. There are many other things but uh

773
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,159
but that's an important thing to keep in

774
00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:05,679
mind as we go forward both with the

775
00:33:04,159 --> 00:33:07,120
police services board and with this

776
00:33:05,679 --> 00:33:08,320
council. So thank you.

777
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,159
» Thank you councelor Roberts. Councelor

778
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,240
St. Gene.

779
00:33:10,159 --> 00:33:16,320
» Thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you for the

780
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:18,799
presentation. It's always uh extremely

781
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,559
interesting and informative uh

782
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:22,159
particularly on the statistic side

783
00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:24,799
because I know that's how you have uh

784
00:33:22,159 --> 00:33:26,240
you use those statistics to manage uh

785
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:27,360
what your next steps are, what you're

786
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,039
going to do in the community, how you're

787
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,120
going to how you're going to deal with a

788
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:33,200
lot of things. So that brings me to the

789
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:36,080
question and most of these numbers are

790
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:39,919
fantastic. There's a few little few that

791
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:42,960
that are up. Uh but uh now that we're

792
00:33:39,919 --> 00:33:44,799
eight months into uh 2026, I'm sure

793
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,320
you're starting to see some trends that

794
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:52,080
are that are maybe concerning. Um, so I

795
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:54,080
guess I'm wondering based on 2025's

796
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,000
occurrences and what you're seeing now

797
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:59,840
in 2026,

798
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:03,200
how is that going to to u help you to

799
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,880
focus your next efforts for the

800
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:08,200
remainder of 26 and then maybe moving

801
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,200
into 27.

802
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,760
What we worked on with the board with

803
00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:13,679
the partner violence, those statistics

804
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,040
that you have, that's number one is

805
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:16,960
focusing on that investigative

806
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,440
excellence when it comes to driving.

807
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,760
It's continuing to drill the mandatory

808
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:24,159
alcohol screening with our officers. You

809
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,320
know, was a tough update to start, but

810
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:28,879
now, you know, we have two ride programs

811
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,000
every shift per day, one in Sandbanks in

812
00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:31,760
the summer and then one somewhere else

813
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,919
in the county. the the fruits of that

814
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,560
labor. But we're continuously looking at

815
00:34:33,919 --> 00:34:37,599
data, whether it's if I get a a road

816
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,679
that I get a bunch of speeding

817
00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:41,599
complaints, I'd rather put up some data

818
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:43,919
gathering devices, gather that data, and

819
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:45,599
then I can focus where the enforcement

820
00:34:43,919 --> 00:34:47,599
goes and what times the enforcement's

821
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:49,280
done at. So, it's just an involving

822
00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:52,000
process. I'm constantly looking at that

823
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:55,200
data, and I we've got very good, the OP

824
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,960
has at real time data, getting that data

825
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,320
to me quicker as a detachment commander.

826
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,359
I'm not wait I'm not waiting. It's data

827
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:04,240
from last month. It's genally

828
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:07,839
across a myriad of

829
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:10,400
offenses, issues, sexual assault. It

830
00:35:07,839 --> 00:35:12,400
could be

831
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,480
traffic related incidents.

832
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:17,200
» Yeah. Just follow up.

833
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:20,079
» Um, one one of the ones that that did

834
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:22,240
jump out at me was um under violent

835
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:25,200
crimes, assaults, firearm related

836
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:27,760
offenses seems to be holding fairly

837
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,280
steady. and and and I guess I get a

838
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,800
little concerned when I see over a

839
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,640
hundred

840
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:37,599
uh occasions where where that you know

841
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,599
where that to me that's an issue

842
00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:43,359
because it seems to be fairly steady

843
00:35:39,599 --> 00:35:45,680
over time. Is is there any way we can or

844
00:35:43,359 --> 00:35:49,520
you I guess and the police services

845
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:50,960
board uh uh is there any way to to focus

846
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,119
more attention on that to try to get

847
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:56,000
those numbers down because firearms

848
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:58,079
issues as we know are you know they're

849
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,599
not good that's that's not a good

850
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:00,960
statistic to have in any community

851
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:02,160
» And it's not and a lot of I [snorts]

852
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,760
mean a lot of them what we have are

853
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,920
actually threats not actually whip a

854
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,240
firearm but maybe I have a firearm and

855
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,640
that type of threatening behavior so it

856
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:12,400
is actually education wise and really

857
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,320
knowing the enforcement side of things,

858
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,720
really pushing for proper case

859
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,320
management, crown attorneys, and getting

860
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:21,040
those cases before court to get some

861
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,960
decent decisions.

862
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,440
That's yes, there is some concentration

863
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,280
we can put on them.

864
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,079
» Okay, great. Thank you. Keep up the

865
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,560
great work.

866
00:36:28,079 --> 00:36:31,760
» And on the imperative driving issue,

867
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,680
there's been some preliminary

868
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:38,320
discussions about a MAD Canada chapter

869
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,640
here in the county, which doesn't exist.

870
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,599
if in fact that comes to fruition, that

871
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:46,720
will certainly raise the education

872
00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:48,960
um around this particular crime.

873
00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:51,119
» Thank you. Uh councelor McNottton, you

874
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,960
had another question.

875
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:55,839
» Thank you. Yes. I I just wanted to go

876
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:59,359
back to something you said, Casey, about

877
00:36:55,839 --> 00:37:01,440
um whether uh you you were referring to

878
00:36:59,359 --> 00:37:05,599
the new legislation.

879
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:07,520
» Yes. And I I wasn't sure what you meant

880
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:09,520
uh or what you were talking about when

881
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,920
you uh spoke of something remaining in

882
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,839
force until 2028. That wasn't the the

883
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,000
changes to the criminal code itself, was

884
00:37:13,839 --> 00:37:16,400
it? That was it was

885
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,040
» Um

886
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:21,040
» It was

887
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:24,160
» The statute was proclaimed on June 15th

888
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:27,119
and there's a 2-year window for police

889
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,079
forces across the country to be educated

890
00:37:27,119 --> 00:37:30,079
uh in terms

891
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:34,320
» For the education

892
00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:36,800
» Training as to how to enforce this

893
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:39,760
particular crime. it'll raise the

894
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:43,200
interviewing uh standards quite a bit

895
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:46,960
because we're now talking about uh to a

896
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:49,839
complainant and I'll use the gender her

897
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:52,640
um because that's predominantly the case

898
00:37:49,839 --> 00:37:55,520
about um

899
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:58,800
pets being killed isolation from

900
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,480
neighbors and family destruction of her

901
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,560
cell phone

902
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,440
» Financial routine checks of the cell

903
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,040
phone

904
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,599
» Just dueling out a little bit of money

905
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:10,400
at the time things she can and cannot

906
00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:12,960
buy. These are things that we've never

907
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:15,200
policed criminally, but we understand in

908
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:19,440
an intimate partner violence are all

909
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,960
about control and this kind of control

910
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,839
usually

911
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,079
the longer it goes ends up in violence

912
00:38:23,839 --> 00:38:28,400
including sexual violence.

913
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:30,560
» So, thank you. That's a relief. I just

914
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,720
didn't tie it into the training

915
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:37,440
programs. I thought you meant that there

916
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:40,480
was like a criminal code timeout

917
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,320
which didn't sit with Thank you for

918
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,640
clarifying. I'm very relieved to hear

919
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,320
that.

920
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:48,560
» No, it's in force. It's been proclaimed

921
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,960
but won't be in force until the police

922
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,280
forces across the country are trained

923
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:55,359
the way they are in the United Kingdom

924
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:58,000
and a number of the Australian states as

925
00:38:55,359 --> 00:39:00,800
to how to really wrestle this crime of

926
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,800
coercive control to the ground. No, very

927
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:07,520
difficult. Thank you for explaining that

928
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:10,240
and it I think that's a great uh

929
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:12,240
» An a huge advance. Thank you,

930
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:14,800
» Councelor Maynard.

931
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:16,720
» Um thank you. I just guess I wanted to

932
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,560
clarify when I said tourist economy, I

933
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:21,119
was really just talking more about the

934
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:24,079
the entertainment economy which is uh

935
00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:26,720
you know enjoyed by by both uh by both

936
00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:30,079
tourists and certainly by by by locals,

937
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:31,520
right? that I think does um you know you

938
00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:34,320
can just see like you know in our local

939
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:36,640
like what's popped up as a business it

940
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,359
typically now has something to do with

941
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:42,960
with alcohol. So the other thing I did

942
00:39:39,359 --> 00:39:45,920
want to touch on briefly was the um the

943
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:48,480
OP billing projections for this year so

944
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,560
that we can uh so that we air on the

945
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,480
side of caution and not get into the

946
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,400
situation that we were in last year at

947
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,359
the last minute.

948
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,240
Uh

949
00:39:55,359 --> 00:39:59,119
» I was particularly upset about this

950
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:02,640
because under [clears throat] the

951
00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:07,040
statute the board is to send along uh

952
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:10,720
estimates which we want to be reliable

953
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:14,079
and which can be relied upon by council.

954
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:16,880
And last year, the as you know, the

955
00:40:14,079 --> 00:40:20,000
Friday that you completed your budget

956
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:23,119
discussions, late that day, uh,

957
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:28,400
municipal policing services from OP

958
00:40:23,119 --> 00:40:31,440
Aurelia GHQ sent along a number. Um I

959
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:33,920
specifically was it in May asked the

960
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,440
inspector in charge of municipal

961
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:38,720
policing

962
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:42,079
uh about this timing issue and basically

963
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:45,599
said it's just not good enough.

964
00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:48,800
We were informed that last year, for

965
00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:50,480
various reasons, was an anomaly and that

966
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:55,119
the board can expect to hear from

967
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:58,160
Aurelia late this month or early October

968
00:40:55,119 --> 00:41:01,040
with certain meaningful numbers. So, not

969
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:03,040
the delay into December on top of your

970
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:06,640
budget discussions.

971
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:08,960
and Inspector uh Kenneth Key uh also

972
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:12,960
said that there would be, and this is

973
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:15,920
his words, less sticker shock this year.

974
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:18,480
That remains to be seen. The current

975
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:21,839
collective uh bargaining agreement or

976
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:23,680
CBA with civilian staff and uniform

977
00:41:21,839 --> 00:41:27,839
staff

978
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:30,319
ends December 31st this year. So

979
00:41:27,839 --> 00:41:35,040
bargaining uh will be going on in the

980
00:41:30,319 --> 00:41:38,000
fall. And so real numbers in terms of

981
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,760
what the next contract looks like I

982
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,800
doubt will be available by the time of

983
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:45,119
the budget discussions of council. Um

984
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:48,240
but certainly we'll get the best number

985
00:41:45,119 --> 00:41:51,359
we can this year in a timely way out of

986
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:53,040
Aurelia and uh hopefully that'll be of

987
00:41:51,359 --> 00:41:55,599
more assistance to council certainly

988
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:58,079
than what happened last year. And indeed

989
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:59,520
our next board meeting will be uh of the

990
00:41:58,079 --> 00:42:02,560
meeting of the board will be addressing

991
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:05,599
this issue before we send the 2027

992
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,319
estimates on to you

993
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:09,359
» Briefly.

994
00:42:06,319 --> 00:42:12,079
» Yes. Um so but but we do know that what

995
00:42:09,359 --> 00:42:13,839
they um you know what they predicted or

996
00:42:12,079 --> 00:42:16,079
what they guessed it would be you know

997
00:42:13,839 --> 00:42:18,640
what was out there at that 5% is exactly

998
00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:21,440
where it came in. So I would rather have

999
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:24,000
them um estimate high than have us you

1000
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:26,240
know and then you know or not estimate

1001
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:29,599
but say okay like you know be prepared

1002
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:31,760
for this because it's um it's way more

1003
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:34,240
palatable to say oh it's not going to

1004
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,160
cost us that much than than to have that

1005
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:38,319
uh it was difficult on staff it was

1006
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:41,280
difficult on council and it was

1007
00:42:38,319 --> 00:42:43,760
difficult on you know just uh it was it

1008
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,839
was really awkward. So I think whatever

1009
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:50,000
we do if I think that we should heir on

1010
00:42:45,839 --> 00:42:52,079
the side of caution and um be as uh

1011
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,079
mindful that especially when we know

1012
00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:54,720
that there's labor negotiations taking

1013
00:42:54,079 --> 00:42:57,040
place

1014
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:59,440
» And the board very much appreciates that

1015
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:03,440
councelor Maynard and I think with the

1016
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:05,520
blowback that happened um over the 2026

1017
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,200
estimates and the delay in Aurelia

1018
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:10,079
getting meaningful information out to

1019
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:13,760
various boards that they are likely to

1020
00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:14,960
heir on higher numbers they give us, but

1021
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,839
we shall see.

1022
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,599
» Thank you.

1023
00:43:15,839 --> 00:43:18,800
» Okay, I got councelor McNutton. She said

1024
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:20,240
she's going to be briefly. Then I got

1025
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,760
councelor Roberts and final word will be

1026
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:22,400
Mayor Ferguson and then we're going to

1027
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,280
move on.

1028
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,839
» Council McDton.

1029
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,920
» So we were recently in Ottawa for the

1030
00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:29,520
association of municipal uh of

1031
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,040
municipalities of Ontario and we did

1032
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:34,800
meet with the solicitor general who

1033
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:37,920
echoed October as a date uh or whose

1034
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:40,960
staff uh said we're aiming for early

1035
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,960
October as well. So coming straight from

1036
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:47,520
the horse's mouth, I'm very hopeful that

1037
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:50,079
that remains true. Um,

1038
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,760
and the solicitor general in that rather

1039
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:55,839
extraordinary meeting for a number of

1040
00:43:51,760 --> 00:44:00,079
reasons uh did say plan for 11%.

1041
00:43:55,839 --> 00:44:02,720
So, I I I mean, I think there were a few

1042
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:05,359
uh head jaws in the room that were a

1043
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:07,200
little bit dropped, but um I I thought

1044
00:44:05,359 --> 00:44:09,920
that that was helpful information to at

1045
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:12,319
least have for planning purposes uh

1046
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,720
while I uh so I just wanted to share

1047
00:44:12,319 --> 00:44:16,800
that because we haven't had a chance to

1048
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:18,720
we haven't reported to our colleagues

1049
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,720
yet. So, I wanted to share that with you

1050
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:21,920
all while we're talking about it.

1051
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:24,720
Anyway,

1052
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:28,960
» Thank That seems an overly high estimate

1053
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:31,680
to me given what I would predict the

1054
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:33,119
bargaining unit settlement will be for

1055
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,520
2027.

1056
00:44:33,119 --> 00:44:35,520
» But

1057
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:38,640
» Yes, considering cost of living,

1058
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:42,319
considering Yeah, I I thought so, too.

1059
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,520
» I mean, it was Yeah. So, I'm very I'm

1060
00:44:42,319 --> 00:44:45,920
hopeful that

1061
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,920
» You're absolutely right. [laughter]

1062
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,200
» So, fingers crossed. It was an

1063
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,599
interesting meeting for a lot of

1064
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,960
reasons.

1065
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:55,520
» Thank you. Um but yeah uh

1066
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:58,480
» Counc

1067
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:01,839
» Very brief um just to remind folks that

1068
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:04,240
I moved in this council passed a motion

1069
00:45:01,839 --> 00:45:06,960
that was circulated to all 444

1070
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:10,319
municipalities including uh some people

1071
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:14,160
with big offices in Toronto Queens Park

1072
00:45:10,319 --> 00:45:16,800
and we have received dozens

1073
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,760
of motions of support from Ontario

1074
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:21,280
municipalities for amending that billing

1075
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,720
procedure and dealing with it in a way

1076
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,319
where there's no more sticker shock. So,

1077
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,520
just to let people know, we've making

1078
00:45:24,319 --> 00:45:26,960
progress.

1079
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,640
» Mayor Ferguson, final word.

1080
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,319
» Thank you. Just to follow up on

1081
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,160
Councelor McNutton's comment about the

1082
00:45:30,319 --> 00:45:35,280
meeting with the solicitor general last

1083
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:40,160
week. Um that follows correspondence

1084
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:44,480
from the solicitor general stating that

1085
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:47,200
any increase would be capped at 11%.

1086
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:49,440
Um, and I think that's what we're going

1087
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,839
to have to use, you know, for budgeting

1088
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:54,720
processes. If it comes in lower than

1089
00:45:51,839 --> 00:45:57,040
that, it's a gift. But he was quite

1090
00:45:54,720 --> 00:46:00,319
adamant at the meeting that uh they're

1091
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:02,240
going to cap it at 11 and

1092
00:46:00,319 --> 00:46:04,640
to avoid that sticker shock. But that's

1093
00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:06,720
still sticker shock.

1094
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,560
» Yeah.

1095
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:12,400
» All right. Thank you guys very very much

1096
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:14,400
for your time today. Um, very excellent

1097
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,800
presentation. Lots of good questions and

1098
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:20,480
comments. I will look to somebody to

1099
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:22,640
move the motion on to receive the

1100
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:26,880
presentation. Councelor Roberts,

1101
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:28,800
seconded by uh Mayor Ferguson.

1102
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,560
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. That the joint

1103
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,400
presentation by Staff Sergeant Jeffrey

1104
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,800
McKinnon, Detachment Commander, and the

1105
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,800
Honorable S. Casec Hill, chair of the OP

1106
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,880
Detachment Board, regarding the Prince

1107
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:41,119
Edward County OP Detachment Board's

1108
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,480
annual report to council be received.

1109
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:46,240
» Thank you, Councelor Roberts. All in

1110
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:48,800
favor? And that carries. [gasps] Okay,

1111
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:50,400
moving along. We have no deputation. No

1112
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,160
deputations

1113
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:55,520
and but we have one registered comment

1114
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:57,760
from the audience. Uh Cheryl Anderson.

1115
00:46:55,520 --> 00:47:02,200
Welcome, Cheryl.

1116
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:02,200
Uh Cheryl speaking on 7.2.

1117
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,720
So Cheryl, you know the drill. Three

1118
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,680
minutes and you can start when you're

1119
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:10,720
ready.

1120
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:12,880
» I think I'm I'm on. Okay. Good

1121
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:15,760
afternoon. I'm Cheryl Anderson from the

1122
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:18,560
Southshore Joint Initiative. I'm here

1123
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,480
today to support the report of the

1124
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:23,280
Community Services Programs and

1125
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:27,359
Initiatives Department dated August

1126
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:30,160
27th, 2026 regarding exploration of

1127
00:47:27,359 --> 00:47:32,079
municipal support options for a dark sky

1128
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:34,400
preserve.

1129
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:37,599
Southshore Joint Initiative and the

1130
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:39,920
Royal Astronomy Society of Canada are

1131
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:42,240
working to promote a dark sky preserve

1132
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:46,400
for the Southshore of Prince Edward

1133
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:49,440
County as part of our work to conserve

1134
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:52,319
and preserve its biodiversity.

1135
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:54,960
I've read the report and congratulate

1136
00:47:52,319 --> 00:47:57,440
Katon Zachariah on the thoroughess of

1137
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,760
its preparation. Key to the

1138
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:02,640
recommendations of the report is the

1139
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:05,599
assertion that the municipality will not

1140
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:08,960
immediately have to make any big

1141
00:48:05,599 --> 00:48:11,599
changes. The process to establish a dark

1142
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:14,480
sky preserve on the southshore will be

1143
00:48:11,599 --> 00:48:17,760
achieved through community education and

1144
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:20,720
development of a dark sky policy and may

1145
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:22,800
take several years.

1146
00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:25,280
on the attractiveness of dark sky

1147
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:28,480
activities to visitors. It is

1148
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:33,599
interesting to note that on August 13th,

1149
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:36,559
approximately 160 campers attended the

1150
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:39,839
Rasque PERS meteor shower viewing event

1151
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:42,559
at Sand Banks Provincial Park. Other RAS

1152
00:48:39,839 --> 00:48:45,359
events at the county libraries and at

1153
00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:47,040
Mariners Park have also been very well

1154
00:48:45,359 --> 00:48:48,960
attended.

1155
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:51,200
With council's acceptance of the report

1156
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:53,599
today and verification at council

1157
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:55,440
meeting on September 8th, Southshore

1158
00:48:53,599 --> 00:48:57,920
Joint Initiative looks forward to

1159
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:00,400
signing a memorandum of understanding

1160
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:03,839
regarding the use of Mariners Park for

1161
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:06,160
dark sky viewing events. Thank you.

1162
00:49:03,839 --> 00:49:10,400
» Thank you, Cheryl.

1163
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:11,680
Uh, any questions from committee?

1164
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,680
» Council McNutton.

1165
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,599
» No question. Just a comment for all

1166
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,599
those trying to watch the meteor shower

1167
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:19,920
this year. I'm so sorry for the weather.

1168
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:22,640
It was a [laughter] little bit overcast.

1169
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:25,359
We tried to

1170
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:27,280
» Okay. Uh, thank you.

1171
00:49:25,359 --> 00:49:27,839
» Is there anybody else in the Do you have

1172
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:28,480
a question?

1173
00:49:27,839 --> 00:49:29,440
» Yeah. Sorry.

1174
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,680
» Oh, sorry, Cheryl.

1175
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:33,680
» Just because in in the report it talks

1176
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,760
about budget considerations. So, you're

1177
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:38,240
just saying there won't be much upfront,

1178
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,119
but we'll have to Yeah. So, will there

1179
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:42,160
be um

1180
00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:45,599
» I think in the report it says that the

1181
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:47,839
budget would be to put a switch on the

1182
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:49,680
lighthouse at Mariners's Park so that

1183
00:49:47,839 --> 00:49:52,079
the light could be turned off on

1184
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,720
occasions when there's an event there.

1185
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:55,520
» Perfect.

1186
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:57,920
» Which is I don't know how much switch.

1187
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:00,800
» So, other than Yeah. Just some sign a

1188
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,839
bit of signage and some uh public

1189
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,559
awareness.

1190
00:50:01,839 --> 00:50:04,559
» That's right.

1191
00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:07,200
» Okay. Thank you.

1192
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:08,720
» Thank you. Okay. Is there anybody else

1193
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:11,280
in the audience who would like to make a

1194
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:13,200
comment on today's agenda?

1195
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:16,000
Not seeing any, I will look for somebody

1196
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:18,720
to accept the

1197
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:22,000
comment. Council McNutton, seconded by

1198
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:24,079
Councelor St. Gene.

1199
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,960
» Motion to accept the comments from the

1200
00:50:24,079 --> 00:50:27,599
audience.

1201
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:30,000
» Thank you. All in favor? And that

1202
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:31,760
carries.

1203
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,680
All right. Moving on to items for

1204
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,400
consideration. So, we have a report from

1205
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:38,559
the finance and IT department.

1206
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,720
Welcome Erin. It's my understanding you

1207
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:42,720
have a presentation you would like to

1208
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:44,079
walk us through. So when you are ready

1209
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:45,200
you're

1210
00:50:44,079 --> 00:50:46,559
» You have a question.

1211
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:49,520
» Sorry.

1212
00:50:46,559 --> 00:50:53,119
» Just

1213
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:55,040
» Welcome Sean Michael.

1214
00:50:53,119 --> 00:51:00,839
» Uh so Aaron I'll turn the floor over to

1215
00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:00,839
you and you can uh you can proceed.

1216
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,319
And while we're starting, I'll actually

1217
00:51:07,119 --> 00:51:11,359
maybe get somebody to put it on the

1218
00:51:08,319 --> 00:51:13,359
floor. So, councelor Hirs seconded by

1219
00:51:11,359 --> 00:51:15,760
councelor panel.

1220
00:51:13,359 --> 00:51:20,000
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. Hers panel. Motion

1221
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:22,559
that report FIN um 282026 regarding

1222
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:25,040
water wastewater financial strategy

1223
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:27,599
report be received that council endorse

1224
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:30,160
scenario 2B and its associated water and

1225
00:51:27,599 --> 00:51:32,000
wastewater financial strategy as the

1226
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:34,079
basis for long-term financial planning

1227
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,920
and public engagement [clears throat]

1228
00:51:34,079 --> 00:51:38,480
that staff be directed to incorporate

1229
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:40,559
the financial strategy into the upcoming

1230
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,800
water and wastewater rate study and

1231
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:44,480
development charge background study.

1232
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,800
that staff be directed to work with

1233
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:49,280
developers in Pectin and Wellington to

1234
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,960
identify and negotiate opportunities for

1235
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,200
development charge and/or connection

1236
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,280
charge, prepayment or front-end

1237
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,040
financing arrangements with the

1238
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,119
objective of reducing growth related

1239
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,960
municipal borrowing and the county's

1240
00:51:59,119 --> 00:52:03,119
exposure to the timing of future

1241
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:05,040
development revenues with any agreements

1242
00:52:03,119 --> 00:52:07,760
requiring council approval brought

1243
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:09,520
forward for consideration.

1244
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,280
and that staff continue to pursue

1245
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,280
available provincial and federal grant

1246
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,520
funding opportunities to reduce

1247
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:18,240
municipal financing requirements and

1248
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:20,800
impacts on existing water and wastewater

1249
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:24,079
rateayers. that the county's existing

1250
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,599
15% internal debt servicing limit remain

1251
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:27,520
unchanged with future borrowing

1252
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:29,359
requirements to be considered as

1253
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,280
individual projects and financing

1254
00:52:29,359 --> 00:52:33,520
arrangements are brought forward to

1255
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:36,000
council and that staff be directed to

1256
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:38,160
engage Infrastructure Ontario and other

1257
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:40,960
potential lenders as appropriate to

1258
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:42,480
confirm financing capacity terms and

1259
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,480
financing options for the water

1260
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,240
wastewater capital program with

1261
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,960
individual borrowing approvals to be

1262
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:50,800
brought forward to council as required.

1263
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,720
Thank you, Councelor Hirs. Erin, the

1264
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,640
floor is yours.

1265
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:57,440
» Uh, good afternoon and through the chair

1266
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:59,520
to members of the committee. Um, uh, I

1267
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:02,319
guess first off, I just like to briefly

1268
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:04,720
thank staff. It may say financial

1269
00:53:02,319 --> 00:53:07,359
strategy. Uh, and it may appear as

1270
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:10,319
though finance, uh, had the sole role in

1271
00:53:07,359 --> 00:53:13,359
this, but that is exactly opposite. Um,

1272
00:53:10,319 --> 00:53:15,280
director Alansstra, director Kaza, uh,

1273
00:53:13,359 --> 00:53:17,599
finance staff, we had a number of

1274
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:20,079
meetings. Um, and the amount of

1275
00:53:17,599 --> 00:53:22,640
information we pulled together and sent

1276
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:25,440
through to Watson within a a month and a

1277
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:28,079
half uh long period is is absolutely

1278
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,559
incredible. So, it's a big thanks to uh

1279
00:53:28,079 --> 00:53:32,800
to all of all the staff who who took

1280
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:36,319
part in supplying information for this.

1281
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:38,480
Um, Sean Michael uh Stevens from Watson

1282
00:53:36,319 --> 00:53:41,359
is available for any questions. Um how

1283
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:43,119
we've structured uh this is the material

1284
00:53:41,359 --> 00:53:47,599
similar to how uh development services

1285
00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:50,160
did under 41 2026 and that um they did a

1286
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:53,520
PowerPoint presentation um that would

1287
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:56,319
provide sort of a a higher level um view

1288
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:59,119
of the of the problems. Uh then we have

1289
00:53:56,319 --> 00:54:01,359
the report um which is a little bit

1290
00:53:59,119 --> 00:54:04,400
deeper and then we have Shawn Michaels

1291
00:54:01,359 --> 00:54:06,800
attachment which is about 40 pages uh of

1292
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:09,040
the math behind a financial strategy.

1293
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:11,119
So, there's sort of three layers there.

1294
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:13,680
Um, and he's available for any questions

1295
00:54:11,119 --> 00:54:15,119
and and please feel free to uh ask any

1296
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,440
questions as we move along in the

1297
00:54:15,119 --> 00:54:20,440
presentation.

1298
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,440
So,

1299
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:26,480
so why are we here? Um,

1300
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,720
I guess this could pro maybe take a

1301
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:32,079
while, but but I'll maybe uh be really

1302
00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:34,720
really brief. Um uh a number of years

1303
00:54:32,079 --> 00:54:37,119
ago uh staff determined that there were

1304
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:39,119
three fundamental problems. Uh first

1305
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:42,160
problem is capacity that we were running

1306
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:44,319
out of. Aging infrastructure is another

1307
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:46,720
problem. Uh and then the pictton water

1308
00:54:44,319 --> 00:54:49,680
supply and intake issues was another

1309
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:52,680
problem. So staff uh stole Wi-Fi at

1310
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,680
home.

1311
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:01,040
» So staff uh ventured to uh determine a

1312
00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:04,079
financial strategy a water wastewater

1313
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:06,000
financial strategy to um to sort of

1314
00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:08,640
solve come up with a solution for this

1315
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:12,559
problem. They used 2.4% as a growth

1316
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:14,319
factor. Um fast forward to mid 2025 and

1317
00:55:12,559 --> 00:55:15,839
there was some change over in staff and

1318
00:55:14,319 --> 00:55:18,559
we started to look at some of the inputs

1319
00:55:15,839 --> 00:55:20,640
into the water wastewater strategy. Um

1320
00:55:18,559 --> 00:55:26,319
in the end development services brought

1321
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:29,440
forward uh DS9 2026 January 20

1322
00:55:26,319 --> 00:55:31,040
uh January 25th or 2026. Um and what

1323
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:34,240
they did is they asked council for

1324
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:38,160
approval to uh investigate the uh

1325
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:39,920
implications of a 1% growth factor.

1326
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,520
staff went out, addressed these

1327
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:45,200
implications, brought forward another

1328
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:48,559
report with DS uh 412026. Uh it was in

1329
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:51,760
June. Um and then we uh received council

1330
00:55:48,559 --> 00:55:53,680
approval for a 1% growth factor. Uh and

1331
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:56,400
then to move forward with uh water

1332
00:55:53,680 --> 00:56:00,000
wastewater financial strategy to tie

1333
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:03,280
into that. Um so in the end development

1334
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:06,480
services brought forward uh um scenario

1335
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:08,400
2B um which council determined and staff

1336
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:11,440
determined as the preferred water

1337
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:14,160
wastewater strategy to solve these three

1338
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:15,839
fundamental problems. Um that was a

1339
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,559
recommendation from the engineers as

1340
00:56:15,839 --> 00:56:21,839
well as the external engineers. Uh and

1341
00:56:18,559 --> 00:56:25,119
then we based the financial strategy on

1342
00:56:21,839 --> 00:56:26,960
scenario 2B.

1343
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:29,760
Uh the financial strategy includes

1344
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:32,160
funding, rates, growth charges, debt,

1345
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,240
risk as well as next steps moving

1346
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:37,520
forward. Uh and again, it just mentions

1347
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:39,839
that council did previously uh um select

1348
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:42,720
a preferred servicing strategy, which is

1349
00:56:39,839 --> 00:56:45,720
what the what uh the um reports based

1350
00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:45,720
on.

1351
00:56:51,839 --> 00:56:57,040
So uh next slide is what scenario 2B uh

1352
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,720
means and and uh I'm going to ask

1353
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:01,440
director Lancra to come up and sort of

1354
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:04,160
give sort of a a highlevel uh detailing

1355
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:08,520
of what scenario 2B consists of just to

1356
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:08,520
refresh everybody's uh memory.

1357
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:14,079
» Thank you Director Mcnickl. Uh so

1358
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:16,319
through the chair to the committee. Uh

1359
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:18,880
so as shown on this slide, uh scenario

1360
00:57:16,319 --> 00:57:21,200
2B is based off of the 1% annual growth

1361
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:23,680
assumption uh previously endorsed by

1362
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:26,240
council which represents a projection of

1363
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:29,119
approximately the 150 residential units

1364
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:30,400
per year. So under this approach uh the

1365
00:57:29,119 --> 00:57:32,880
county would proceed with a regional

1366
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:35,200
water treatment plant in Wellington to

1367
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,480
ultimately supply both Wellington and

1368
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:40,000
Pikton and Bloomfield with the

1369
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:42,240
infrastructure cons infrastructure uh

1370
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:45,040
constructed and expanded in phases as

1371
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:46,400
growth occurs. Uh so the existing Pikton

1372
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:48,960
water treatment plant would remain in

1373
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,640
service only until the regional plant or

1374
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,480
regional system is commissioned with

1375
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:54,720
investment limited primarily to

1376
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:56,799
essential life cycle and reliability

1377
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,720
work. wastewater treatment would remain

1378
00:57:56,799 --> 00:58:00,559
separate in picked in Wellington with

1379
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:02,960
improvements and expansions phased to

1380
00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:04,400
support projected growth.

1381
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,559
So I want to emphasize the

1382
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:08,960
recommendation for scenario 2B is not

1383
00:58:06,559 --> 00:58:10,960
based solely on the financial analysis.

1384
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:12,480
Uh the financial results support the

1385
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,960
recommendation but there are also

1386
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:16,720
important infrastructure operational

1387
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:18,559
asset management and risk considerations

1388
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,480
that led staff to this preferred

1389
00:58:18,559 --> 00:58:22,559
approach. Uh so this aligns

1390
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,839
appropriately when understanding that

1391
00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:25,839
while being a corporation the

1392
00:58:23,839 --> 00:58:27,760
municipality is bound by multiple

1393
00:58:25,839 --> 00:58:29,920
sources of legislation and risk

1394
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:32,400
management for constituents that require

1395
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:34,799
assessment beyond just the financials.

1396
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:36,960
Uh so importantly the 1% still

1397
00:58:34,799 --> 00:58:39,200
represents significant growth. So that's

1398
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:42,640
approximately 9,300 additional residents

1399
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:44,559
over the next 25 years. uh this this

1400
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:46,400
plan uh or this allows us to plan

1401
00:58:44,559 --> 00:58:48,640
infrastructure differently. Rather than

1402
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,160
constructing very large facilities today

1403
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,400
based on growth that may or may not

1404
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,240
materialize, scenario 2B allows

1405
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:56,960
infrastructure to be phased and expanded

1406
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:58,799
as growth occurs.

1407
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,160
So for example, the regional water

1408
00:58:58,799 --> 00:59:02,079
treatment plant can initially be

1409
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,240
constructed at a smaller capacity with

1410
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:05,839
treatment trains added over time.

1411
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,280
Similarly, the Wellington wastewater

1412
00:59:05,839 --> 00:59:08,880
treatment plan can be designed so that

1413
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,400
components are brought online as

1414
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,160
additional capacity is actually

1415
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:14,000
required. That approach gives the

1416
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:16,559
municipality flexibility if growth

1417
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:18,480
occurs either faster or slower uh than

1418
00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:20,319
projected and reduces the risk of

1419
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:23,520
operating oversized infrastructure for

1420
00:59:20,319 --> 00:59:25,839
decades. Uh second scenario 2B reflects

1421
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,839
that we now know about the condition of

1422
00:59:25,839 --> 00:59:30,319
our existing assets, particular the

1423
00:59:27,839 --> 00:59:31,920
Pikton water treatment plant. Uh when

1424
00:59:30,319 --> 00:59:34,000
council directed staff to investigate

1425
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:36,000
the 1% scenario, there was some thought

1426
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,839
that the existing Pictton plant might be

1427
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:40,160
rehabilitated and operated for another

1428
00:59:37,839 --> 00:59:41,440
15 to 20 years. Uh if that had been

1429
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,960
possible, there would have been stronger

1430
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:45,359
argument for delaying the regional

1431
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:47,359
system. Uh that condition assessment did

1432
00:59:45,359 --> 00:59:50,160
not support that assumption. Uh so the

1433
00:59:47,359 --> 00:59:52,160
Pikton plant dates back to 1928 has

1434
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:54,240
significant structural process and

1435
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,799
electrical deficiencies and further

1436
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,960
investigation which could prove costly

1437
00:59:56,799 --> 01:00:00,960
uh is still required to fully understand

1438
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,319
the condition of some of its components.

1439
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,839
The assessment indicates that

1440
01:00:02,319 --> 01:00:06,400
approximately 10 years is a more

1441
01:00:03,839 --> 01:00:07,839
realistic planning horizon. So other

1442
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,359
scenarios considered would therefore

1443
01:00:07,839 --> 01:00:11,200
require the county to make significant

1444
01:00:09,359 --> 01:00:13,839
interimm investments in Pikton to keep

1445
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:15,920
that facility operating. Scenario 2B

1446
01:00:13,839 --> 01:00:17,599
avoids making substantial investments in

1447
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:19,680
an asset that we already know is

1448
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:21,599
approaching the end of its useful life.

1449
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,760
Uh instead, we would undertake only the

1450
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:25,839
life cycle work necessary to safely and

1451
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:28,480
reliably operate it until the regional

1452
01:00:25,839 --> 01:00:30,240
plant is commissioned. Uh further,

1453
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,160
there's also the significant operational

1454
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,880
advantages to regionalizing water

1455
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:36,400
treatment. Uh scenario 2B ultimately

1456
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:38,160
reduces the number of water treatment

1457
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:40,319
plants the municipality is responsible

1458
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,839
for operating, maintaining, staffing,

1459
01:00:40,319 --> 01:00:44,240
rehabilitating, and eventually

1460
01:00:41,839 --> 01:00:46,400
replacing. Maintaining separate plants

1461
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,960
means maintaining separate treatment

1462
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:51,119
processes, buildings, electrical and

1463
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,880
mechanical systems, regulatory

1464
01:00:51,119 --> 01:00:55,599
requirements, and life cycle replacement

1465
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:57,520
programs. Over the life of these assets,

1466
01:00:55,599 --> 01:00:59,359
consolidation provides operational

1467
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:02,400
efficiencies and reduces the county's

1468
01:00:59,359 --> 01:01:04,319
long-term asset management burden.

1469
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,079
uh and previously discussed this is also

1470
01:01:04,319 --> 01:01:08,079
a significant source water protection

1471
01:01:06,079 --> 01:01:09,680
benefit. So the Pikton Bay bay intake is

1472
01:01:08,079 --> 01:01:11,839
one of the most vulnerable drinking

1473
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:14,480
water sources in the Quinty source

1474
01:01:11,839 --> 01:01:16,160
protection region. Uh the Pikton system

1475
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:17,920
has identified significant drinking

1476
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:20,480
water threats and requires ongoing

1477
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:22,799
monitoring and contingency planning.

1478
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,720
Additionally, recent source training on

1479
01:01:22,799 --> 01:01:26,960
source water protection plan updates

1480
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:29,440
recognize Pikton as a location requiring

1481
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,720
additional applicable plan policies to

1482
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:33,280
further protect the drinking water

1483
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,799
source. Uh as these policies have yet to

1484
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,799
be implemented, it's difficult to

1485
01:01:34,799 --> 01:01:38,480
quantify and qualify what the impact on

1486
01:01:36,799 --> 01:01:42,079
the municipality and any new development

1487
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:43,599
in Pikton would be. Uh by comparison, no

1488
01:01:42,079 --> 01:01:44,720
drink significant drinking water threats

1489
01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:46,400
have been identified within the

1490
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,400
Wellington intake protection zones.

1491
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:50,960
Moving Pikton onto the regional water

1492
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:53,200
system therefore does uh more than

1493
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:55,119
replace an aging plant. It allows the

1494
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,799
municipality to ultimately eliminate any

1495
01:01:55,119 --> 01:01:58,640
ongoing source water risk and the

1496
01:01:56,799 --> 01:02:00,720
regulatory and operational challenge

1497
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:03,599
challenges associated with mitigating

1498
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:05,200
and managing that risk. Uh scenario 2B

1499
01:02:03,599 --> 01:02:07,200
builds on work the municipality has

1500
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,880
already completed. The regional water

1501
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,799
solution remains consistent with the

1502
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,480
preferred servicing approach identified

1503
01:02:10,799 --> 01:02:14,640
through previous master plans and

1504
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:16,720
environmental assessments. It allows the

1505
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,960
current design work to continue, retains

1506
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:21,200
the opportunity to use the provincial

1507
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:23,200
funding already secured and creates a

1508
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:25,200
regional system that can potentially

1509
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:26,880
provide servicing flexibility to other

1510
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,480
municipal drinking water systems in the

1511
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,480
future.

1512
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:33,119
So, while scenario 2B does require a

1513
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:35,200
greater upfront investment on uh staff

1514
01:02:33,119 --> 01:02:37,200
are looking beyond the initial capital

1515
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,640
cost, we're providing some additional

1516
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,880
comparisons further in the pres

1517
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,720
presentation for your consideration as

1518
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:44,160
well.

1519
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:46,559
As

1520
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:48,400
So from an infrastructure management

1521
01:02:46,559 --> 01:02:50,000
perspective, scenario 2B means investing

1522
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,160
in the long-term asset rather than

1523
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,960
making significant interimm investments

1524
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:56,880
in an aging asset. Uh we ultimately

1525
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:58,640
intend to retire and focus on

1526
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:00,799
construction of one water treatment

1527
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:02,480
plant instead of two plants. Uh it

1528
01:03:00,799 --> 01:03:04,079
reduces the operational and source water

1529
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,400
risk, reduces the number of treatment

1530
01:03:04,079 --> 01:03:07,920
facilities uh that we must maintain over

1531
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:12,119
the long term and allows infrastructure

1532
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:12,119
to be phased with actual growth.

1533
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:18,280
Thank you, Crystal.

1534
01:03:21,839 --> 01:03:27,760
» Thank you, Crystal. [laughter]

1535
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:31,039
The um so what is council being asked to

1536
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:33,280
decide? Um and this is arguably one of

1537
01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:36,559
the most important of the the the slide

1538
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:38,960
deck. Um so endorse a framework and next

1539
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:41,680
steps not authorize the entire program.

1540
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:44,400
today. I would maybe change the word

1541
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:46,000
framework to roadmap because basically

1542
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:48,400
it's uh telling us where we're going to

1543
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,920
go, what risks are going to be involved

1544
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:51,920
and then how are we going to manage

1545
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,680
them. Um, so there are seven

1546
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:56,400
recommendations that we're putting forth

1547
01:03:53,680 --> 01:04:00,240
to council. Um, and so council is being

1548
01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:02,799
asked to endorse scenario 2B. Um, uh, as

1549
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:05,520
for the reasons Crystal explained, um,

1550
01:04:02,799 --> 01:04:08,160
keep the 15% internal internal debt

1551
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:11,200
servicing limit, which is in our policy.

1552
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:13,440
Um, that guard rail will continue. Uh,

1553
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:14,880
allow us to advance the water wastewater

1554
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,559
rate study, development charge

1555
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,799
background study as well as the asset

1556
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:21,599
management plan. Uh currently some of

1557
01:04:18,799 --> 01:04:23,680
those different uh projects are on hold

1558
01:04:21,599 --> 01:04:25,520
um just until next year and this year

1559
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:28,720
we're actually just sort of on hold for

1560
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:30,319
the modeling. Um and then these a lot of

1561
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:33,440
these

1562
01:04:30,319 --> 01:04:35,920
different studies and and reports and

1563
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:38,240
plans end up feeding into the budget end

1564
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:41,440
up feeding into the master plan. So um

1565
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:43,280
so this is sort of a key input to not

1566
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:45,839
just those uh different studies and

1567
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:48,559
plans but also many many others. Uh

1568
01:04:45,839 --> 01:04:50,799
we're also asking um council uh the

1569
01:04:48,559 --> 01:04:52,960
ability to pursue uh developer financing

1570
01:04:50,799 --> 01:04:55,520
and grants which there's a couple slides

1571
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:57,760
about that later on in the presentation

1572
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:59,839
uh as well as confirm financing capacity

1573
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:02,240
with IO and other lenders like Canada

1574
01:04:59,839 --> 01:05:05,359
Infrastructure Bank uh RBC and some of

1575
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:07,039
the other banks. Um there could be uh

1576
01:05:05,359 --> 01:05:10,240
definite savings there whether or not

1577
01:05:07,039 --> 01:05:12,240
that is in terms of rates in terms of

1578
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:14,799
length of deenture repayment

1579
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:17,599
flexibility. Um, so that's sort of a a

1580
01:05:14,799 --> 01:05:20,880
key metric as well. Um, what council is

1581
01:05:17,599 --> 01:05:24,000
not approving today is the $255 million

1582
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:26,319
of borrowing. Um, every capital project

1583
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:30,079
in the program or any capital project

1584
01:05:26,319 --> 01:05:32,240
within the program. Uh, final $47,900

1585
01:05:30,079 --> 01:05:33,920
growth related charge. That was just an

1586
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,680
estimate. We are not done the

1587
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,920
development charge background study.

1588
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:40,720
This is just an estimate. Uh we're not

1589
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:44,240
approving the 5.5 annual water rate

1590
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:47,599
increase uh or the 2.1% wastewater

1591
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:49,200
increase. Um that will be completed uh

1592
01:05:47,599 --> 01:05:52,319
when we complete the water wastewater

1593
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:54,240
rate study. Um uh we're not asking

1594
01:05:52,319 --> 01:05:56,000
council to approve any of the uh

1595
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:58,880
agreements or prepayment agreements. We

1596
01:05:56,000 --> 01:06:00,799
have $13.9 million uh that we received

1597
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:03,200
from Caitlyn in terms of a prepayment

1598
01:06:00,799 --> 01:06:06,000
agreement. Um that is the only agreement

1599
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:08,079
in place at this stage.

1600
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:09,920
Again, all future capital projects,

1601
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:12,160
rates, charges, developer agreements,

1602
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:14,480
and borrowing will return to council

1603
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:18,200
through the proper approval process for

1604
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:18,200
each particular item.

1605
01:06:21,119 --> 01:06:25,920
So, how much infrastructure is planned?

1606
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:28,240
Um, this is sort of the starting point

1607
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:31,520
uh of Watson's analysis. Uh, so it's

1608
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:33,359
$279 million. Um, that's the cost in

1609
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:37,280
2026.

1610
01:06:33,359 --> 01:06:40,160
Um and what Watson and staff did is they

1611
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:42,000
broke down the projects within the $279

1612
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:44,799
million and they determined what is

1613
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:47,039
benefit to existing benefit to existing

1614
01:06:44,799 --> 01:06:50,319
and what is growth related and what is a

1615
01:06:47,039 --> 01:06:53,200
post period cost. So after doing that

1616
01:06:50,319 --> 01:06:56,480
they came up with 104 or roughly 105

1617
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:58,960
million was benefit to existing uh 103

1618
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:02,079
was growth related uh and then there was

1619
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:05,920
$31 million that were post period past

1620
01:07:02,079 --> 01:07:09,680
201. Um this allocation is important

1621
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:13,280
because it identifies it's the input to

1622
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:15,440
um to the $360 million

1623
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:18,319
um over the 10-year period that's

1624
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:19,680
increased by inflation uh as well as

1625
01:07:18,319 --> 01:07:22,720
some of the life cycle management

1626
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:24,799
activities. So the $104 million would

1627
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:27,520
relate because it's benefit to existing

1628
01:07:24,799 --> 01:07:30,960
to the water wastewater rate study. the

1629
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:33,200
$103 million uh growth related relates

1630
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:35,839
to uh development charges and connection

1631
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:39,599
charges. So that input is important in

1632
01:07:35,839 --> 01:07:42,640
the in the future calculations. Um $279

1633
01:07:39,599 --> 01:07:45,359
million is a just an estimate. Um and it

1634
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:48,680
also includes $39.5 million in grant

1635
01:07:45,359 --> 01:07:48,680
grant funding.

1636
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:55,920
So how is the program funded? Um overall

1637
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:58,079
a project of this size and magnitude

1638
01:07:55,920 --> 01:08:00,880
have a number of different funding

1639
01:07:58,079 --> 01:08:03,119
sources. Um first off is the water

1640
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:05,440
wastewater rates. It's made up of

1641
01:08:03,119 --> 01:08:07,359
operations. It's made up of life cycle

1642
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:10,400
management activities and it's made up

1643
01:08:07,359 --> 01:08:12,880
of uh servicing the debt that doesn't

1644
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:14,400
relate to growth. Um as well as

1645
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:17,359
connection charges and some others. So

1646
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:20,000
that that's what ends up funding the um

1647
01:08:17,359 --> 01:08:21,600
uh benefit to existing portion. Uh the

1648
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:24,239
development charges and connection

1649
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:28,000
charges relates to uh funding the growth

1650
01:08:24,239 --> 01:08:31,600
related portions of the assets. Uh the

1651
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:34,319
reserves um are an allocation of surplus

1652
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:36,799
um and within our finance policy. Any

1653
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:39,120
surplus within water or wastewater goes

1654
01:08:36,799 --> 01:08:40,480
into a reserve that can be utilized at a

1655
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:43,040
later time.

1656
01:08:40,480 --> 01:08:45,120
uh the grants uh predominantly in this

1657
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:47,520
context relate to applicationbased

1658
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:48,960
grants not formuliabased grants although

1659
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:51,359
I don't think it's beyond the realm of

1660
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:53,279
possibility that in the future um there

1661
01:08:51,359 --> 01:08:55,279
could be formula based grants that could

1662
01:08:53,279 --> 01:08:57,040
you be used specifically for core

1663
01:08:55,279 --> 01:08:59,440
infrastructure similar to water

1664
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:01,679
wastewater or an increase in that and I

1665
01:08:59,440 --> 01:09:04,400
think there is a a resolution on this

1666
01:09:01,679 --> 01:09:06,400
agenda related to OCIF that perhaps if

1667
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:10,080
there is an increase we can use some of

1668
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:12,400
those um uh OCIF funds for water

1669
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:14,560
wastewater infrastructure.

1670
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:16,640
The other is developer financing,

1671
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:19,040
pre-made payment and frontending

1672
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:20,880
finance. So, we do have a slide later uh

1673
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:22,799
within the slide deck that uh Sean

1674
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:25,279
Michael will speak to and he's got a

1675
01:09:22,799 --> 01:09:27,040
couple um pictures just to an

1676
01:09:25,279 --> 01:09:28,719
illustration just to walk through so it

1677
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:30,960
helps uh council and the public

1678
01:09:28,719 --> 01:09:32,799
understand what it means. Uh and then

1679
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:35,199
the remainder is funded through through

1680
01:09:32,799 --> 01:09:37,279
debt. So, the infrastructure is built,

1681
01:09:35,199 --> 01:09:40,239
development occurs, growth revenues are

1682
01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:42,480
collected. Um the the central risk

1683
01:09:40,239 --> 01:09:45,359
associated with this is one of timing

1684
01:09:42,480 --> 01:09:46,960
and I think uh uh the newspapers

1685
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:49,759
identified that staff have identified

1686
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:51,520
that it's you build the infrastructure

1687
01:09:49,759 --> 01:09:53,440
um but then you have to collect the

1688
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:55,360
development charges uh and some of the

1689
01:09:53,440 --> 01:09:58,239
funding in order to offset that. So

1690
01:09:55,360 --> 01:10:01,600
there is a risk uh associated with that

1691
01:09:58,239 --> 01:10:03,120
um which is why we are um advocating for

1692
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:07,719
uh front-ending and prepayment

1693
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:07,719
agreements further on in the slide deck.

1694
01:10:10,239 --> 01:10:15,679
So what does this mean for existing

1695
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:18,960
customers? [sighs] Um so under the base

1696
01:10:15,679 --> 01:10:23,199
case um currently right now the average

1697
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:27,120
cost of a water bill is about $1867

1698
01:10:23,199 --> 01:10:30,480
uh per year. Uh and the water is in is

1699
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:32,719
forecast to increase by 5.5% year. The

1700
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:37,280
wastewater is forecast to increase by

1701
01:10:32,719 --> 01:10:39,760
2.1% uh per year which is roughly a 3.8%

1702
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:42,480
if you look at both of those per year.

1703
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:47,120
Uh so it would be a total uh combined

1704
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:48,800
bill moving from 1867 to 2724.

1705
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:50,800
And again these are forecasts we are

1706
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:54,080
done the water wastewater rate study. So

1707
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:56,239
these may change uh slightly. Um, and

1708
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:59,199
it's also important to note, and I think

1709
01:10:56,239 --> 01:11:02,000
uh Crystal mentioned it as well, is that

1710
01:10:59,199 --> 01:11:05,040
these rates um will increase no matter

1711
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:07,679
what scenario that we choose to go with.

1712
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:09,920
So whether or not it's 2C or any

1713
01:11:07,679 --> 01:11:12,320
different scenario will result in a

1714
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:15,320
increase of the rates uh of various

1715
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:15,320
magnitudes.

1716
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:25,520
So what does growth pay for? So this is

1717
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:27,280
a slide um with some of the current

1718
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:28,560
development charges and what the

1719
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:30,480
estimate of where the development

1720
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:32,400
charges are going to go under the base

1721
01:11:30,480 --> 01:11:35,440
case and where the development charges

1722
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:37,520
would be under full fin full front-end

1723
01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:40,320
financing. Uh so the current Wellington

1724
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:43,280
area specific are about $26,000.

1725
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:45,520
Uh the current connection charge um is

1726
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:48,080
about $16,000.

1727
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:51,120
If we go with the base case, it will

1728
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:53,600
increase those to $47,000. So, it's

1729
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:55,440
about 184%

1730
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:58,159
increase on the connection charges and

1731
01:11:55,440 --> 01:11:59,920
it's a 83.9%

1732
01:11:58,159 --> 01:12:03,360
increase on the pure development

1733
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:05,679
charges. Um, if we were to get fullfront

1734
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:08,480
in financing, the overall increase would

1735
01:12:05,679 --> 01:12:11,199
be about uh 30.1%

1736
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:13,440
on the development charge.

1737
01:12:11,199 --> 01:12:16,480
Um, so again, it shows the importance of

1738
01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:18,560
of uh uh getting either prepayment or

1739
01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:20,239
front-end financing.

1740
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:22,320
Uh so what sits behind the preliminary

1741
01:12:20,239 --> 01:12:24,159
charge? There's 103.3 million of

1742
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:27,280
infrastructure um related to growth

1743
01:12:24,159 --> 01:12:29,679
through 2011. Um the base case charge

1744
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:32,560
includes associated financing costs and

1745
01:12:29,679 --> 01:12:34,960
the final methodology and charges uh

1746
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:36,880
will be related to the background uh DC

1747
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:38,719
background study which will be completed

1748
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:41,760
um or is forecast to be completed next

1749
01:12:38,719 --> 01:12:43,920
year. Uh 75 million of the growth

1750
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:46,800
related municipal boring is forecast in

1751
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:48,560
the base case. Um, so full front-end

1752
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:50,239
financing would eliminate the forecast

1753
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:54,040
growth debt and reduce the preliminary

1754
01:12:50,239 --> 01:12:54,040
charge to about 33,800.

1755
01:12:58,239 --> 01:13:03,120
So, how much borrowing is forecast

1756
01:13:01,440 --> 01:13:06,640
um

1757
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:08,800
uh overall um over a 10-year period? Um

1758
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:13,360
uh it's forecast that we're we need to

1759
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:16,080
borrow $255 million. Um, non non-growth

1760
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:19,120
related is 180 million and growth

1761
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:22,320
related is 75 million. And I'm just

1762
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:24,880
going to go back to the $279 million and

1763
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:28,239
sort of reconcile that with the $360

1764
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:31,040
million and then the $255 million. So we

1765
01:13:28,239 --> 01:13:33,520
started at $279 million which was made

1766
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:36,080
up of n number of projects and it was in

1767
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:40,560
2026 values.

1768
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:42,800
That uh $279 million was brought uh

1769
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:45,840
distilled down to a 10-year period and

1770
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:48,159
it was increased by 3.5% inflation

1771
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:52,560
factor as well as certain life cycle

1772
01:13:48,159 --> 01:13:54,560
costs which ended up being 360.8 million

1773
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:58,400
over the 10-year period. So we're moving

1774
01:13:54,560 --> 01:14:02,560
from the 279 to the 360.

1775
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:06,560
of the 360 there isund forecast $105

1776
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:09,199
million worth of funding. So taking the

1777
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:13,280
$105 million from the 360 you end with a

1778
01:14:09,199 --> 01:14:17,280
$255 million to be funded. Of that $75

1779
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:20,640
million growth of that $180 million of

1780
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:22,640
non-growth. Uh so again that 255 is

1781
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:26,159
forecast over multiple years not a

1782
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:29,159
request uh as of day one January 1st

1783
01:14:26,159 --> 01:14:29,159
2027.

1784
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:38,640
So what does the debt mean for uh the

1785
01:14:36,159 --> 01:14:41,280
county? Um the the base case

1786
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:44,880
demonstrates that the scenario 2B can be

1787
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:47,040
financed within the statutory limit. Um

1788
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:49,280
so at the top line there you can see

1789
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:52,640
that the 25% of our own source revenue

1790
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:55,120
is the statutory limit that's set. Um

1791
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:57,920
the 15 which is right in the middle of

1792
01:14:55,120 --> 01:15:00,960
our own source revenues is as per our

1793
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:03,120
policy. Um and this would under the base

1794
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:06,719
case scenario would take us over that

1795
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:11,120
for several years. Peak would be 17.4%

1796
01:15:06,719 --> 01:15:14,800
under the base case. Um 15% as our own

1797
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:16,880
um policy rate and 25% is the provincial

1798
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:19,520
uh statute.

1799
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:21,120
Um debt capacity is corporate. Um so

1800
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:22,960
there are two risks here. one is the

1801
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:25,920
debt and servicing the debt and then the

1802
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:29,840
other risk is debt capacity is over it's

1803
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:31,600
corporatewide. So um there is an asset

1804
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:35,440
management plan that currently doesn't

1805
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:37,760
have um debt included in it and all the

1806
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:39,440
different service areas aren't utilizing

1807
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:42,159
debt in our current asset management

1808
01:15:39,440 --> 01:15:45,760
plan. It's a pay as you go philosophy.

1809
01:15:42,159 --> 01:15:47,440
So it does reduce the amount of debt

1810
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:50,400
that is available for other service

1811
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:52,320
areas moving forward. Um, how this is

1812
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:55,440
mitigated and I'll talk about that later

1813
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:58,400
again is through prepayment or or uh or

1814
01:15:55,440 --> 01:16:00,960
full front-end financing which decreases

1815
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:03,120
the A arirl down to something that's

1816
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:04,960
palatable and can be utilized by the

1817
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:08,760
other service areas and worked into the

1818
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:08,760
asset management plan.

1819
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:17,040
So this is uh can developer financing

1820
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:19,040
change the picture and I'd mentioned it

1821
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:24,000
a few different times and it absolutely

1822
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:26,239
can. Um so Watson modeled two different

1823
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:28,320
scenarios. One was an accelerated

1824
01:16:26,239 --> 01:16:30,800
prepayment and the other was a full

1825
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:33,199
front-end financing portion. So, under

1826
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:36,719
the accelerated prepayment, if we

1827
01:16:33,199 --> 01:16:39,679
receive 60.1 million, um it will reduce

1828
01:16:36,719 --> 01:16:42,239
18.3 million less borrowing um and get

1829
01:16:39,679 --> 01:16:45,040
to us get us to a debt servicing ratio

1830
01:16:42,239 --> 01:16:47,440
of about 15.5%.

1831
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:49,440
If it's fullfront and then financing,

1832
01:16:47,440 --> 01:16:52,159
other words, it's erasing the $75

1833
01:16:49,440 --> 01:16:54,719
million in its entirety, we'd need $89

1834
01:16:52,159 --> 01:16:56,800
million. Um these are growth related

1835
01:16:54,719 --> 01:17:00,640
costs funded before they are incurred

1836
01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:03,280
and after the 13.9 million DC reserves.

1837
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:06,640
Um again the county currently has 13.9

1838
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:08,560
million um prepayment DC's available. Um

1839
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:11,840
and that's through the Caitlyn uh the

1840
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:14,320
two Caitlyn agreements. Um, I would like

1841
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:16,480
to pass it over to uh Shawn Michael from

1842
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:18,640
Watson just to explain this a little bit

1843
01:17:16,480 --> 01:17:20,560
further and he's got a couple

1844
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:24,400
illustrations and he'll walk through

1845
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:27,679
explaining how $61 million equates to

1846
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:30,719
18.3 million less borrowing. Um, how the

1847
01:17:27,679 --> 01:17:32,000
89 million removes the 75 and then

1848
01:17:30,719 --> 01:17:34,960
you'll explain a little bit about the

1849
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:38,400
differences between prepayment related

1850
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:39,920
to uh full front-end financing. So, I'll

1851
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:42,640
pass it over to you Michael and we'll

1852
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:45,640
we'll pull up the uh uh what you said

1853
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,640
earlier.

1854
01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:54,560
» Welcome, Sean. You can go ahead and

1855
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:56,880
carry on whenever you're ready.

1856
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:59,679
» Great. Thank you very much and good

1857
01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:03,040
afternoon everyone. Um as we just jump

1858
01:17:59,679 --> 01:18:05,199
ahead to the following slide, please.

1859
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:08,480
So, I thought I'd I'd do first just

1860
01:18:05,199 --> 01:18:12,000
maybe take a a step back and uh explain

1861
01:18:08,480 --> 01:18:13,440
a little bit about how um how some of

1862
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:16,960
these numbers have been worked together

1863
01:18:13,440 --> 01:18:20,480
in the forecast and planning for the use

1864
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:23,920
of um reserves versus debt as a funding

1865
01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:26,000
source. And so why this is of principal

1866
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:28,000
importance is because of the nature of

1867
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:30,320
the water and wastewater infrastructure.

1868
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:32,239
The timing of the expenditures are

1869
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:34,159
required in advance of when development

1870
01:18:32,239 --> 01:18:36,960
would occur and when development would

1871
01:18:34,159 --> 01:18:39,679
pay connection charges or development

1872
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:41,440
charges. Um and the county would then

1873
01:18:39,679 --> 01:18:43,520
have those revenues available to fund

1874
01:18:41,440 --> 01:18:46,400
those needs. So because expenditures are

1875
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:48,719
occurring in advance, you're going to um

1876
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:49,760
naturally have if if you don't have

1877
01:18:48,719 --> 01:18:51,120
additional [clears throat] front-end

1878
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:53,199
financing assistance from the

1879
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:55,199
development community, you'd have to

1880
01:18:53,199 --> 01:18:56,880
enter into debt financing arrangements

1881
01:18:55,199 --> 01:18:59,120
to fund those works. So that's fairly

1882
01:18:56,880 --> 01:19:02,400
common across um all municipalities when

1883
01:18:59,120 --> 01:19:06,719
it comes to these types of investments.

1884
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:09,280
Um and so the

1885
01:19:06,719 --> 01:19:11,120
when we look at um the use of those

1886
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:13,360
available reserves over the forecast

1887
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:15,679
period um when you look at that annually

1888
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:18,080
those reserve funds um are first

1889
01:19:15,679 --> 01:19:20,320
available to fund your annual debt

1890
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:22,560
financing costs associated with prior

1891
01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:24,320
growth related expenditures. Then if you

1892
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:27,760
have additional um reserve funds

1893
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:29,679
available, those can be used to fund uh

1894
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:33,199
additional capital expenditures that you

1895
01:19:29,679 --> 01:19:34,800
may have uh in any given year. Um that's

1896
01:19:33,199 --> 01:19:37,280
uh that needs to be balanced against

1897
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:39,199
making sure though that um you're going

1898
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:41,920
to have sufficient reserve funds in the

1899
01:19:39,199 --> 01:19:44,320
future to continue to honor those debt

1900
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:46,400
annual debt financing obligations that

1901
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:48,880
you'd have. Um otherwise you're going to

1902
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:50,800
have to look to other county financial

1903
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:53,120
sources such as rate or tax base

1904
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:55,360
supported reserves to meet those annual

1905
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:57,520
obligations which um is we're trying to

1906
01:19:55,360 --> 01:20:00,000
avoid.

1907
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:01,760
Um and so there's obviously that

1908
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,280
knock-on effect of when you issue

1909
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:05,440
additional debt then it adds to your

1910
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:08,400
additional financing costs in future

1911
01:20:05,440 --> 01:20:10,960
years. And so this is illustrated in the

1912
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:13,600
bottom left hand chart. And and so

1913
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:17,760
what's being shown there in the solid

1914
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:20,159
stacked bars is the makeup of the

1915
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:22,239
capital funding sources

1916
01:20:20,159 --> 01:20:24,719
doing debt or transfers from the reserve

1917
01:20:22,239 --> 01:20:27,679
funds in in any given year. And so in

1918
01:20:24,719 --> 01:20:30,560
2026, for example, we can see about $38

1919
01:20:27,679 --> 01:20:32,880
million in cost. In the dark orange

1920
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:34,719
section, that is the share of the cost

1921
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:36,960
that be funded from new debt. And the

1922
01:20:34,719 --> 01:20:39,920
dark blue section is the share that be

1923
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:42,400
funded from transfers from reserves. uh

1924
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:44,400
in the hatched bar to the right that's

1925
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:46,719
what draws would occur from the reserve

1926
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:49,040
fund in that year. So the there would be

1927
01:20:46,719 --> 01:20:51,520
draws from the reserve equal to the

1928
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:54,239
amount um being funded directly from

1929
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:56,480
capital in the dark blue section.

1930
01:20:54,239 --> 01:20:58,640
Then we can see when we look at 2027 is

1931
01:20:56,480 --> 01:20:59,840
now we have in the halfs uh orange

1932
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:01,679
section we have additional debt

1933
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:04,400
financing costs associated with the debt

1934
01:21:01,679 --> 01:21:06,960
that was issued in 2026. So an

1935
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:08,800
additional $1.6 $6 million in annual

1936
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:12,400
costs that would be incurred and then

1937
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:15,360
that continues uh in subsequent years um

1938
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:17,760
such as in um 2028 we have additional $9

1939
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:21,760
million in debt that then adds to those

1940
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:23,760
annual financing costs in 2029.

1941
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:25,440
Uh and so it's this balancing act of

1942
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:28,080
making sure that there are available

1943
01:21:25,440 --> 01:21:29,920
funds to again meet those annual

1944
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:33,840
financing costs. As we can see in the

1945
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:35,600
top chart uh in the years 28 to 32 which

1946
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:37,360
shows the reserve fund balance we see

1947
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:39,600
that the reserve fund be completely

1948
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:42,719
utilized from meeting those uh debt

1949
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:44,800
financing obligations.

1950
01:21:42,719 --> 01:21:46,719
Uh and as a a summary on on the right

1951
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:48,080
hand side and and this will be helpful

1952
01:21:46,719 --> 01:21:51,280
for when comparing to the other

1953
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:53,440
scenarios just showing what the capital

1954
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:55,760
funding services are over the forecast

1955
01:21:53,440 --> 01:21:58,560
period. Under this base scenario about

1956
01:21:55,760 --> 01:22:01,199
2/3 of the cost on the top pie chart

1957
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:03,760
would be funded from debt and about 1/3

1958
01:22:01,199 --> 01:22:06,400
from reserves. And we can see that then

1959
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:09,040
the a the use of those reserves on an

1960
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:11,040
annual basis is a fairly even split

1961
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:13,600
between annual debt financing

1962
01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:17,560
obligations and transfers to reserves

1963
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:17,560
for future capital needs.

1964
01:22:17,679 --> 01:22:24,800
Um we jump ahead a slide then and look

1965
01:22:20,480 --> 01:22:27,600
at the um the scenario two which is

1966
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:29,520
looking at having the the development

1967
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:31,360
charge or connection charge revenues

1968
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:34,159
that received in the 10-year period

1969
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:38,639
accelerated to 2027.

1970
01:22:34,159 --> 01:22:40,880
That allows for more uh additional

1971
01:22:38,639 --> 01:22:43,360
revenue to be available for funding

1972
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:45,840
capital versus having to issue debt. And

1973
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:47,840
so after assuming that the $31 million

1974
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:51,600
for the Wellington trunks would still be

1975
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:54,159
issued in or still be taken on in 2026,

1976
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:56,880
um the the remaining funds that are

1977
01:22:54,159 --> 01:22:59,679
available for combination of financing

1978
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:02,239
that debt and any future debt as well as

1979
01:22:59,679 --> 01:23:04,400
transfers to reserves.

1980
01:23:02,239 --> 01:23:06,800
Um and so when we look at those summary

1981
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:10,400
pie charts on the right hand side again

1982
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:13,840
we can see now that the um the capital

1983
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:16,560
funding sources are an fairly even split

1984
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:19,040
between debt and reserves. So about 50%

1985
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:21,440
of the cost coming from debt versus 2/3

1986
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:24,719
in the prior scenario. And we look at

1987
01:23:21,440 --> 01:23:28,480
the uh the annual draws from the

1988
01:23:24,719 --> 01:23:30,960
reserve. Um we can see that uh the debt

1989
01:23:28,480 --> 01:23:33,679
financing costs represent about $25

1990
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:35,920
million over that forecast period um

1991
01:23:33,679 --> 01:23:37,920
versus about $34 million in the prior

1992
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:39,840
scenario. So by reducing the amount of

1993
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:42,080
debt we have that knock on effect of

1994
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:44,639
less debt financing costs in future

1995
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:47,520
years which helps me um produce

1996
01:23:44,639 --> 01:23:50,159
additional funds available for

1997
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:52,560
uh for funding uh future uh capital

1998
01:23:50,159 --> 01:23:54,400
needs as well. [sighs]

1999
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:55,920
And in the top chart, well, we can see

2000
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:58,960
the reserve fund being fully depleted

2001
01:23:55,920 --> 01:24:02,239
over that forecast period. Uh this

2002
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:03,760
acceleration of funding would only be um

2003
01:24:02,239 --> 01:24:05,840
for the 10-year period. So there would

2004
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:07,920
be additional growth related revenues

2005
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:10,560
thereafter that would be available to

2006
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:14,693
fund future debt financing costs and any

2007
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:15,199
further um growth related expenditures.

2008
01:24:14,693 --> 01:24:18,400
» [gasps]

2009
01:24:15,199 --> 01:24:21,520
» Then lastly on on the next slide

2010
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:25,120
um when we look at the scenario where if

2011
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:28,639
um the entirety of the capital program

2012
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:31,120
was funded um through front-end

2013
01:24:28,639 --> 01:24:34,480
financing assistance from developers

2014
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:37,360
that would require um the way we sort of

2015
01:24:34,480 --> 01:24:39,760
model that illustratively is that there

2016
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:41,920
would be these um developer funding

2017
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:44,080
contributions that would mirror the

2018
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:46,480
amount and timing of the capital

2019
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:49,600
expenditures. And so that would be about

2020
01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:51,920
$98 million over that forecast period,

2021
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:54,000
which translates to about $89 million in

2022
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:56,239
2026 values, which is the the number

2023
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:58,080
referenced in the report.

2024
01:24:56,239 --> 01:25:01,679
Uh and so now we can see in the bottom

2025
01:24:58,080 --> 01:25:04,480
left hand chart the um the transfers

2026
01:25:01,679 --> 01:25:06,159
from reserves um are the same as the

2027
01:25:04,480 --> 01:25:08,960
transfers to capital. So those capital

2028
01:25:06,159 --> 01:25:10,960
needs being fully funded from reserves

2029
01:25:08,960 --> 01:25:12,800
as illustrated on the right hand pie

2030
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:16,000
charts as well where the entirety of the

2031
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:18,000
$112 million in growth related uh needs

2032
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:19,360
would be funded from those reserves

2033
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:22,400
which have been contributed through

2034
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:25,040
those front-end financing arrangements

2035
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:26,480
um which uh mirrors the the money

2036
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:29,360
command of the reserve in the bottom

2037
01:25:26,480 --> 01:25:33,280
right hand chart.

2038
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:35,280
So I I hope that sort of helps um

2039
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:36,800
hopefully sort of proactively address

2040
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:40,400
some of the questions that might have

2041
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:42,320
might have been around um how those

2042
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:44,480
front-end financing scenarios have been

2043
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:46,000
put together for your um for your

2044
01:25:44,480 --> 01:25:47,920
consideration and sort of just

2045
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:50,400
illustratively guide the the future

2046
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:54,040
discussions uh and negotiations with uh

2047
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:54,040
the development community.

2048
01:25:54,639 --> 01:26:01,120
» Perfect. Thank you very much.

2049
01:25:57,280 --> 01:26:03,040
I think uh are you still got more?

2050
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:04,400
Okay. Well, I didn't know if we're

2051
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:05,920
getting into questions yet, so I was

2052
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:07,920
just

2053
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:12,199
I know my brain's going, so I was don't

2054
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:12,199
know how much more, but go ahead.

2055
01:26:29,679 --> 01:26:33,520
uh through the chair. Um so just to

2056
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:35,199
follow up on Shawn Michaels uh a little

2057
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:38,480
presentation there, this is the impact

2058
01:26:35,199 --> 01:26:41,120
of the full front end financing. Um so

2059
01:26:38,480 --> 01:26:43,040
this is the strongest model um that

2060
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:45,600
mitigates uh the county's borrowing

2061
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:49,920
profile. Um so again, the base strategy

2062
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:53,199
is is uh $255 million ends up uh at

2063
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:58,080
17.4% 4% of our uh own source revenues

2064
01:26:53,199 --> 01:27:00,000
and it results in roughly a DC of 47,000

2065
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:03,280
under full front-end financing. That's

2066
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:05,760
the $89 million in today's values. Um

2067
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:09,840
would be only $180 million that we need

2068
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:14,480
to uh borrow. Um we'd go down to under

2069
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:17,360
um uh 15% uh on our ARIRL. Uh and it

2070
01:27:14,480 --> 01:27:20,239
would reduce 33 development charges to

2071
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:22,960
33,000. So the potential benefit of

2072
01:27:20,239 --> 01:27:26,440
prepayment or full front end financing

2073
01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:26,440
is significant.

2074
01:27:27,679 --> 01:27:33,520
So this is uh some sensitivity

2075
01:27:30,159 --> 01:27:35,520
assessment um and um Sean Michael from

2076
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:38,719
Watson can answer some of the detail

2077
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:40,800
questions around this but um we ran a

2078
01:27:38,719 --> 01:27:42,880
number of different scenarios um with

2079
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:45,679
the base case. So we have our base case

2080
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:47,600
um related to debt servicing um but to

2081
01:27:45,679 --> 01:27:49,520
councelor Branderhor's comment about

2082
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:53,600
what happens if we don't get the growth

2083
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:56,239
we also forecast 60% of forecast growth

2084
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:59,840
40% forecast growth we modeled those or

2085
01:27:56,239 --> 01:28:01,280
Sean Michael did um and then we had a

2086
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:03,840
what I thought was a really really good

2087
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:06,560
meeting with Wellington Community Group

2088
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:08,719
um and uh some of their concerns um one

2089
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:11,360
of them being uh cap what happens if

2090
01:28:08,719 --> 01:28:13,679
capital costs increase. So uh we had

2091
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:18,080
Watson model if capital costs increase

2092
01:28:13,679 --> 01:28:20,320
uh by 10% uh as well as 10% or 20%. Uh

2093
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:22,159
and then we also modeled uh the

2094
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:25,159
prepayment as well as the full front-end

2095
01:28:22,159 --> 01:28:25,159
financing.

2096
01:28:27,199 --> 01:28:34,000
So are the alternatives financially

2097
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:36,159
better? um the the the

2098
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:39,040
regardless of whatever uh scenario is

2099
01:28:36,159 --> 01:28:41,760
chosen um there is significant uh

2100
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:46,239
funding pressure um debt pressure uh

2101
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:49,040
rate pressure um so under scenario 2C um

2102
01:28:46,239 --> 01:28:51,760
there is 2.4 4 million more in debt um

2103
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:53,840
than the base case scenario 2B. Uh

2104
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:56,080
there's slightly higher forecast water

2105
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:59,920
rates. Uh the financial difference is

2106
01:28:56,080 --> 01:29:01,920
relatively small small um but it doesn't

2107
01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:04,480
capture the the operation environmental

2108
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:06,080
and uh servicing considerations uh that

2109
01:29:04,480 --> 01:29:09,600
like the qualitative characteristics

2110
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:11,360
that were discussed um uh during 41DS

2111
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:13,920
412026.

2112
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:17,040
And under the no growth scenario um we

2113
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:18,719
also ran this as well. Um uh there's

2114
01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:21,440
some growth infrastructure and borrowing

2115
01:29:18,719 --> 01:29:23,600
avoided. Um no new customers uh are

2116
01:29:21,440 --> 01:29:26,960
added to the shared system. Uh the

2117
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:30,159
combined bill is around 685 or 25%

2118
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:32,239
higher than scenario 2B. Uh and it does

2119
01:29:30,159 --> 01:29:35,280
uh does not reflect the county's adopted

2120
01:29:32,239 --> 01:29:37,520
1% planning assumption uh or the known

2121
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:41,040
uh development pipeline that we're aware

2122
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:42,480
of. Uh and I will ask uh Director Lansre

2123
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:45,120
if she wants to say a few words about

2124
01:29:42,480 --> 01:29:47,520
this slide as well.

2125
01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:49,280
Maybe not. [laughter]

2126
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:50,719
» I didn't see her run, but she's coming

2127
01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:52,400
up slowly. Uh

2128
01:29:50,719 --> 01:29:54,320
» Through the chair. Uh actually, Director

2129
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:56,080
McNickel, I was following through my

2130
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:58,719
notes. He hit on all of the points that

2131
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:59,920
I had to uh add. So, nothing further to

2132
01:29:58,719 --> 01:30:01,280
add from development services.

2133
01:29:59,920 --> 01:30:05,360
» That's why he gave you the opportunity

2134
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:06,560
of saying good job, Aaron. [laughter]

2135
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:07,840
» Well, actually, I thought when you were

2136
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:09,120
reading that in, I actually thought you

2137
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:10,080
were touching on those key points, but

2138
01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:12,327
I'm like, well, maybe there's something

2139
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:12,982
in addition. So, thanks, Crystal.

2140
01:30:12,327 --> 01:30:13,520
[snorts]

2141
01:30:12,982 --> 01:30:15,440
» [clears throat]

2142
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:18,000
» Um okay, next slide is what are the key

2143
01:30:15,440 --> 01:30:19,679
financial risks? Um the uh the overall

2144
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:22,560
strategy doesn't eliminate the financial

2145
01:30:19,679 --> 01:30:24,480
risks uh but it gives us a framework to

2146
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:26,560
see it to manage it and make better

2147
01:30:24,480 --> 01:30:29,600
decisions uh before they become

2148
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:32,000
commitments. Uh so I identified about

2149
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:33,679
six different risks not all the risks

2150
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:36,320
but six different risks within the

2151
01:30:33,679 --> 01:30:38,639
report. Um debt capacity is certainly

2152
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:42,560
one risk and that is over several years

2153
01:30:38,639 --> 01:30:44,560
we go above our policy of 15%. Um so

2154
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:46,320
some of the mitigating factors would be

2155
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:48,960
again getting developer financing

2156
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:50,960
prepayments always looking for grants

2157
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:54,159
because grants has the opportunity to

2158
01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:57,360
reduce um the rates increasing uh as

2159
01:30:54,159 --> 01:31:00,159
well as the the the development side uh

2160
01:30:57,360 --> 01:31:03,120
and as well as the capital timing. Uh

2161
01:31:00,159 --> 01:31:05,360
growth in timing is another um uh risk

2162
01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:07,600
that we discussed earlier. Um so some of

2163
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:09,840
the mitigations are to monitor actual

2164
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:12,159
collections, stage the capital and again

2165
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:15,280
we're back to uh negotiating uh some

2166
01:31:12,159 --> 01:31:17,760
developer funding to to utilize.

2167
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:20,639
Next risk is uh really is reserves and

2168
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:23,120
asset management. Um and that is as I

2169
01:31:20,639 --> 01:31:24,639
spoke earlier about the um not having

2170
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:27,199
debt built in for the other service

2171
01:31:24,639 --> 01:31:30,400
areas in our asset management plan. Um

2172
01:31:27,199 --> 01:31:32,159
so this is to uh incorporate uh some of

2173
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:33,679
these items within the updated asset

2174
01:31:32,159 --> 01:31:36,800
management plan and look at some of the

2175
01:31:33,679 --> 01:31:40,400
life cycle costs associated with it. Um

2176
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:42,960
capital cost is another um risk. Um and

2177
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:45,679
uh we modeled that over a 10 and 20%

2178
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:47,520
increase. Um this is just keeping track

2179
01:31:45,679 --> 01:31:49,920
of that refreshing estimates and

2180
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:52,239
contingencies before major commitments.

2181
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:54,880
Um, we now have a purchasing policy that

2182
01:31:52,239 --> 01:31:57,600
was passed by council um that sort of

2183
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:59,360
mitigates the potential for overages on

2184
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:02,560
some of the uh some of the contracts

2185
01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:05,840
that we have. Uh rate affordability is

2186
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:07,280
is another risk. um this is um to

2187
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:09,199
mitigate that we're going to constantly

2188
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:11,199
look for different grant opportunities

2189
01:32:09,199 --> 01:32:14,159
which will have a potential to reduce

2190
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:16,560
the actual increase um over a number of

2191
01:32:14,159 --> 01:32:18,560
years uh as well as look at the funding

2192
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:21,199
risk and uh and then financing

2193
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:24,480
availability is is another risk and

2194
01:32:21,199 --> 01:32:26,560
that's why um we're seeking council's um

2195
01:32:24,480 --> 01:32:28,159
approval to go out and talk to IO and

2196
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:30,400
the Canada Infrastructure Bank and some

2197
01:32:28,159 --> 01:32:32,880
of the banks because this is a lot of

2198
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:35,120
money and I know the process I'm going

2199
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:38,080
through to get $31 million that council

2200
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:39,840
passed uh uh a few months back. So

2201
01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:41,840
really it's to make sure that we are in

2202
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:43,760
a position where there will be an

2203
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:46,639
institution that will lend to Prince

2204
01:32:43,760 --> 01:32:49,440
Edward County. Uh so that is to have

2205
01:32:46,639 --> 01:32:51,520
those discussions and again um there is

2206
01:32:49,440 --> 01:32:54,000
a there is a way where each each

2207
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:56,000
different institution will have um

2208
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:59,280
different interest rates, different

2209
01:32:56,000 --> 01:33:02,320
programs, different um repayment uh

2210
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:06,760
flexibility. So that could be a key in

2211
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:06,760
some of those negotiations as well.

2212
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:13,360
So what happens after the endorsement um

2213
01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:15,199
uh public engagement um that was

2214
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:18,320
identified earlier by council with the

2215
01:33:15,199 --> 01:33:19,679
scenario 2B uh financial strategy um

2216
01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:22,320
meet with developers and go through

2217
01:33:19,679 --> 01:33:25,679
negotiations regarding prepayment um uh

2218
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:27,360
front-end financing um continue on and

2219
01:33:25,679 --> 01:33:28,880
complete some of the supporting studies

2220
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:31,199
I had mentioned that were sort of on

2221
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:33,600
hold. We're doing modeling right now uh

2222
01:33:31,199 --> 01:33:35,760
with our underground infrastructure and

2223
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:38,400
our uh belowground infrastructure, the

2224
01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:40,320
roads and and water wastewater. Um so

2225
01:33:38,400 --> 01:33:42,080
we'd like to continue on with that. That

2226
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:44,239
will be a key input to the water

2227
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:46,400
wastewater rate study as well as the DC

2228
01:33:44,239 --> 01:33:49,040
background study.

2229
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:50,400
um financing discussions that is again

2230
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:51,920
having discussions with uh

2231
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:55,840
Infrastructure Ontario, some of the

2232
01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:57,760
banks and Canada Infrastructure Bank. Um

2233
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:59,760
uh approval to move forward with our

2234
01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:02,320
asset management plan and update some of

2235
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:05,280
the the costs associated with that. Uh

2236
01:34:02,320 --> 01:34:07,440
and then future approvals which uh this

2237
01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:10,800
ties into budgets, projects, borrowway

2238
01:34:07,440 --> 01:34:12,800
agreements and and so forth. So actual

2239
01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:15,440
project timing, procurement, cash flow,

2240
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:17,920
financing, retirement requirements will

2241
01:34:15,440 --> 01:34:21,480
continue as refined with as the capital

2242
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:21,480
program advances.

2243
01:34:23,040 --> 01:34:27,600
So when would the county actually

2244
01:34:24,719 --> 01:34:30,000
borrow? Uh so financing would follow the

2245
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:31,440
actual project cash flow um after

2246
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:32,880
available funding sources have been

2247
01:34:31,440 --> 01:34:35,920
applied. So there would be project

2248
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:38,560
approval uh construction capital uh cash

2249
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:40,639
flow grants reserves growth construction

2250
01:34:38,560 --> 01:34:43,360
financing as as and then on do a

2251
01:34:40,639 --> 01:34:45,199
long-term debenture uh which is another

2252
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:47,760
reason why we should engage with our

2253
01:34:45,199 --> 01:34:50,400
lenders. Now I think I think it's table

2254
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:52,239
three which identifies uh when the

2255
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:54,480
projects are going to carry on and I

2256
01:34:52,239 --> 01:34:56,960
think the two uh first two big projects

2257
01:34:54,480 --> 01:34:58,239
is the uh the water treatment plant and

2258
01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:00,000
the wastewater treatment plant in

2259
01:34:58,239 --> 01:35:03,760
Wellington and I think if I remember

2260
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:04,960
correctly was 2026 to 2020 2030 and then

2261
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:08,239
there's some more infrastructure

2262
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:10,639
projects that that start in uh 2028. So,

2263
01:35:08,239 --> 01:35:13,760
uh, staff would be coming forward likely

2264
01:35:10,639 --> 01:35:16,400
early, uh, 2027. Uh, through the regular

2265
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:19,120
process to council, uh, to to get a

2266
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:21,040
construction loan for, um, those two

2267
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:23,760
particular projects. Those two projects

2268
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:25,679
we do have grant funding for, uh, and we

2269
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:28,800
would be looking for grant funding, um,

2270
01:35:25,679 --> 01:35:30,480
for the projects after 2028. Uh but

2271
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:32,239
again that would be coming forward

2272
01:35:30,480 --> 01:35:34,639
during in with the regular approval

2273
01:35:32,239 --> 01:35:37,040
process that uh with with the with a new

2274
01:35:34,639 --> 01:35:39,040
council and again individual boring

2275
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:41,600
approvals as I mentioned will still

2276
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:43,840
return to council as required

2277
01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:45,920
uh and then engaging the lenders uh

2278
01:35:43,840 --> 01:35:50,360
right now I think is extremely important

2279
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:50,360
to get uh everything in place.

2280
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:56,800
So this is um financial strategy in one

2281
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:59,199
slide. Um uh this is a significant

2282
01:35:56,800 --> 01:36:02,239
amount of debt, a significant amount of

2283
01:35:59,199 --> 01:36:05,040
capital and um a significant amount of

2284
01:36:02,239 --> 01:36:07,520
increases on our rates. Um are they

2285
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:11,600
manageable? Um I think they are

2286
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:14,080
manageable moving forward. Um

2287
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:17,360
um and it is possible to mitigate some

2288
01:36:14,080 --> 01:36:19,840
of the rates through grants and it is

2289
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:22,159
possible to mitigate um uh some of the

2290
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:24,400
debt uh through pre uh payment

2291
01:36:22,159 --> 01:36:26,719
agreements as well as uh front end

2292
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:30,320
financing

2293
01:36:26,719 --> 01:36:32,159
and overall um it certainly I'm a fiscal

2294
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:34,639
conservative and and certainly this

2295
01:36:32,159 --> 01:36:37,679
amount of debt and the increase in rates

2296
01:36:34,639 --> 01:36:39,920
um makes me uncomfortable but at the

2297
01:36:37,679 --> 01:36:42,400
same time given that this is the the

2298
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:45,520
sort of the best case scenario. I think

2299
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:49,280
it is manageable through applying for

2300
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:52,080
grants. Um utilizing um upfront

2301
01:36:49,280 --> 01:36:55,679
financing and managing the process as we

2302
01:36:52,080 --> 01:36:58,159
move forward. Um so overall sort of

2303
01:36:55,679 --> 01:37:00,560
scary numbers but uh I do think if

2304
01:36:58,159 --> 01:37:03,280
properly managed uh it could it could

2305
01:37:00,560 --> 01:37:05,679
work. Uh so again this is a recommended

2306
01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:08,960
approach uh to endorse the financial

2307
01:37:05,679 --> 01:37:11,360
framework maintain that guardrail of 15%

2308
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:14,560
um carry on with some of our our major

2309
01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:17,199
plans and infrastructure studies um

2310
01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:19,360
pursue developer financing um and then

2311
01:37:17,199 --> 01:37:21,440
bring all of these future projects back

2312
01:37:19,360 --> 01:37:25,760
to council for approval as well as the

2313
01:37:21,440 --> 01:37:28,159
debt approval. Um with that that is all

2314
01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:30,320
18 slides. Thank you.

2315
01:37:28,159 --> 01:37:33,520
» Thank you Director McNichol. Not seeing

2316
01:37:30,320 --> 01:37:36,159
any hand. No, just I'm gonna start over

2317
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:38,159
there and we'll just work around. So,

2318
01:37:36,159 --> 01:37:41,679
Council McNotton, you can start.

2319
01:37:38,159 --> 01:37:45,280
» Thank you for round one. So, uh, thank

2320
01:37:41,679 --> 01:37:47,760
you for this. Thank you all for this. Um

2321
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:50,000
it's a struggle to wrap your head around

2322
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:51,520
the financial implications and I thank

2323
01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:53,440
you for trying to make it as clear as

2324
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:57,382
possible and I'm still sort of

2325
01:37:53,440 --> 01:37:59,520
struggling to uh understand the risks

2326
01:37:57,382 --> 01:38:01,760
[clears throat] and I understand based

2327
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:03,920
on the report the risk scenarios look

2328
01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:05,920
this is the best scenario that we're

2329
01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:09,920
looking at based on the risk to the

2330
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:14,239
rateayers of which I am one um

2331
01:38:09,920 --> 01:38:16,400
and looking at you know my uh uh water

2332
01:38:14,239 --> 01:38:19,199
bill, water waste water bills increasing

2333
01:38:16,400 --> 01:38:23,360
over uh a relatively short period of

2334
01:38:19,199 --> 01:38:24,900
time. Uh that much is concerning. Um I

2335
01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:26,239
understand what you're saying about how

2336
01:38:24,900 --> 01:38:31,840
[clears throat] to mitigate some of that

2337
01:38:26,239 --> 01:38:34,239
impact on uh rateayers. Um and I am

2338
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:36,000
hopeful uh depending on the scenario we

2339
01:38:34,239 --> 01:38:38,000
choose or the direction that we choose

2340
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:39,920
that there will be opportunities to do

2341
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:42,880
that. One thing I want to say right here

2342
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:45,840
at the outset is if we are going to be

2343
01:38:42,880 --> 01:38:51,199
looking at such steep uh such steep

2344
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:54,320
increases to uh for rateayers. Um I I

2345
01:38:51,199 --> 01:38:57,679
don't know how likely grants will be for

2346
01:38:54,320 --> 01:38:59,600
just rate mitigation itself and I very

2347
01:38:57,679 --> 01:39:02,719
much hope that there are possibilities

2348
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:05,520
to to receive more grants. We do have a

2349
01:39:02,719 --> 01:39:08,159
couple in the pocket. Um, but I think

2350
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:10,320
we'll need to be looking at how we and

2351
01:39:08,159 --> 01:39:13,119
and perhaps this needs to be factored

2352
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:16,000
into the rate study when it moves

2353
01:39:13,119 --> 01:39:18,159
forward. Um, I think we are going to be

2354
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:21,280
needing to consider our lower income

2355
01:39:18,159 --> 01:39:23,199
households even more on an even more

2356
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:27,040
concentrated manner than we currently do

2357
01:39:23,199 --> 01:39:29,040
with our um with our relief program

2358
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:33,840
because I do see that there is potential

2359
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:37,040
risk for individual um for individual uh

2360
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:40,400
households to be put at more risk of

2361
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:43,600
disconnection um more risk of uh sinking

2362
01:39:40,400 --> 01:39:45,360
into debt based on a necessary service

2363
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:47,280
that we have to provide and that they

2364
01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:49,520
have to be able to access to ensure that

2365
01:39:47,280 --> 01:39:53,119
their kids are watered or they

2366
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:57,920
themselves or you know uh or or am

2367
01:39:53,119 --> 01:40:00,239
washed and um safe. So I just want to

2368
01:39:57,920 --> 01:40:02,080
just make it just put an asterisk next

2369
01:40:00,239 --> 01:40:04,239
to that as we go forward. I don't want

2370
01:40:02,080 --> 01:40:07,119
to forget people that are going to be

2371
01:40:04,239 --> 01:40:09,280
left uh sinking into deeper risk. we

2372
01:40:07,119 --> 01:40:11,119
already have a lot of people in a rears

2373
01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:12,639
um and we do have people who receive

2374
01:40:11,119 --> 01:40:14,159
disconnection notices every single

2375
01:40:12,639 --> 01:40:16,080
month. So I think we need to consider

2376
01:40:14,159 --> 01:40:19,280
them and I know that your department

2377
01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:24,000
does um I just want to you know have

2378
01:40:19,280 --> 01:40:25,920
that asterisk. Um I also want to um wrap

2379
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:29,199
around my my head around the scenarios

2380
01:40:25,920 --> 01:40:34,239
as presented uh back when we received

2381
01:40:29,199 --> 01:40:38,960
them in June and again uh today which is

2382
01:40:34,239 --> 01:40:42,000
the construction risks of potentially

2383
01:40:38,960 --> 01:40:43,840
and in the light of recent experiences

2384
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:47,280
that we've had in this municipality

2385
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:48,800
where we had cost overruns for um for

2386
01:40:47,280 --> 01:40:51,840
extensions

2387
01:40:48,800 --> 01:40:55,520
uh or uh for the

2388
01:40:51,840 --> 01:40:58,639
the um new infrastructure along the

2389
01:40:55,520 --> 01:41:01,199
trail, the cost overruns and the risks

2390
01:40:58,639 --> 01:41:04,719
that that project uh that we were

2391
01:41:01,199 --> 01:41:07,600
blindsided by I think needs to be needs

2392
01:41:04,719 --> 01:41:09,600
to inform anything we do to move forward

2393
01:41:07,600 --> 01:41:11,280
because uh one of the things that was

2394
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:12,800
cited in the June report and I don't

2395
01:41:11,280 --> 01:41:15,600
remember it from this report is the

2396
01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:20,400
potential for it was the scenarios all

2397
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:24,159
had a risk of construction cost at being

2398
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:28,239
uh the range was like plus 50% or to

2399
01:41:24,159 --> 01:41:33,280
minus 30% or something to that effect.

2400
01:41:28,239 --> 01:41:35,840
That is a very uh large range and it is

2401
01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:40,719
uh that in itself the risk that that

2402
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:43,840
poses uh could serve to create some

2403
01:41:40,719 --> 01:41:48,080
untenable uh impacts on the budget

2404
01:41:43,840 --> 01:41:51,199
itself. Um so I just I wanted to sort of

2405
01:41:48,080 --> 01:41:53,679
think about that h how will that be

2406
01:41:51,199 --> 01:41:55,520
included in the financial strategy going

2407
01:41:53,679 --> 01:41:58,000
forward the the construction risk

2408
01:41:55,520 --> 01:41:59,920
itself? Are there insurance

2409
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:04,159
um are there types of insurance that we

2410
01:41:59,920 --> 01:42:07,520
can um that we can access to ensure the

2411
01:42:04,159 --> 01:42:09,840
construction processes themselves for

2412
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:12,639
unknowns? I don't know. I'm just trying

2413
01:42:09,840 --> 01:42:15,520
to think of how some of those risks get

2414
01:42:12,639 --> 01:42:19,199
uh are mitigated. Um so I'll get to a

2415
01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:22,000
question. I have several um but just

2416
01:42:19,199 --> 01:42:26,159
this one for this round one is this

2417
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:29,199
first one is are there ways to lock in a

2418
01:42:26,159 --> 01:42:32,639
as you're meeting with um with lenders

2419
01:42:29,199 --> 01:42:37,040
are there ways to lock in interest rates

2420
01:42:32,639 --> 01:42:39,760
as I as I think the the interest rate

2421
01:42:37,040 --> 01:42:42,080
fluctuation depending on when you

2422
01:42:39,760 --> 01:42:44,880
convert to debentures becomes a risk

2423
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:47,520
unto itself as well. And I don't want to

2424
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:49,360
find us in a scenario where uh we've

2425
01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:51,520
that we've been in before which is

2426
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:53,760
suddenly you're looking at you have to

2427
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:55,679
move something over into long-term into

2428
01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:57,679
a debenture and you're not prepared to

2429
01:42:55,679 --> 01:42:59,920
and the interest rates are unfavorable.

2430
01:42:57,679 --> 01:43:02,080
So um even if it's only a temporary

2431
01:42:59,920 --> 01:43:04,080
fluctuation, you know, there's sometimes

2432
01:43:02,080 --> 01:43:05,600
not the luxury of time to be able to sit

2433
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:08,639
on it until the rates are more

2434
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:13,760
favorable. So are there opportunities to

2435
01:43:08,639 --> 01:43:16,159
lock in? Um and uh also uh so that is my

2436
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:19,040
main question. This was such a common

2437
01:43:16,159 --> 01:43:21,280
scenario at AMO we that again it comes

2438
01:43:19,040 --> 01:43:24,480
up in this meeting. Um at AMO it was the

2439
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:26,639
talk of the town and I heard from a lot

2440
01:43:24,480 --> 01:43:27,679
of municipalities in the same boat. It's

2441
01:43:26,639 --> 01:43:28,000
it's a lot.

2442
01:43:27,679 --> 01:43:28,880
» Okay.

2443
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:31,280
» Um

2444
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:32,480
» Director McNichol

2445
01:43:31,280 --> 01:43:35,119
in summary. She wants to know if there's

2446
01:43:32,480 --> 01:43:36,560
a way we can lock interest rates in

2447
01:43:35,119 --> 01:43:39,040
» Through the chair. Yes. For a certain

2448
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:41,679
period of time. Absolutely. And um

2449
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:44,239
interest rate risk is real and I didn't

2450
01:43:41,679 --> 01:43:45,520
include it. Um you know Jane Lesley uh

2451
01:43:44,239 --> 01:43:47,199
vice chair of the audit committee and I

2452
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:49,520
had a had a big discussion about this

2453
01:43:47,199 --> 01:43:51,199
the other day at the committee. Um I

2454
01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:54,080
would bring it forward in the interest

2455
01:43:51,199 --> 01:43:56,400
rate risk and how to mitigate it um with

2456
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:58,639
the actual u report related to the

2457
01:43:56,400 --> 01:44:00,400
debenture. Um but certainly each

2458
01:43:58,639 --> 01:44:02,320
different lender whether or not it's IO

2459
01:44:00,400 --> 01:44:03,920
or a bank or Canada infrastructure bank

2460
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:05,600
would hold a rate for a certain period

2461
01:44:03,920 --> 01:44:08,080
of time. I can't give you that that

2462
01:44:05,600 --> 01:44:10,320
amount of time. um but we would hold it

2463
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:13,840
and then in terms of once we get a

2464
01:44:10,320 --> 01:44:16,080
construction loan um that ro that that

2465
01:44:13,840 --> 01:44:18,239
rate would change and fluctuate through

2466
01:44:16,080 --> 01:44:20,800
the length of the project. So um for

2467
01:44:18,239 --> 01:44:24,000
example water wastewater uh plant in

2468
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:26,159
Wellington um if it was a fiveyear long

2469
01:44:24,000 --> 01:44:30,080
plan there would be risk associated with

2470
01:44:26,159 --> 01:44:32,080
that um if interest rates did rise. Um

2471
01:44:30,080 --> 01:44:33,600
so certainly is something that we would

2472
01:44:32,080 --> 01:44:35,440
mitigate moving forward and they would

2473
01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:37,280
hold the rate um for a certain period of

2474
01:44:35,440 --> 01:44:40,159
time and then the rate would fluctuate

2475
01:44:37,280 --> 01:44:43,280
as the project continues on.

2476
01:44:40,159 --> 01:44:44,719
» Thank you. Uh going around councelor

2477
01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:47,360
Sanjene did you have anything this

2478
01:44:44,719 --> 01:44:50,480
round? No. Councelor Bry.

2479
01:44:47,360 --> 01:44:53,920
» Yeah. Thank you, Chair Prinsen. Um,

2480
01:44:50,480 --> 01:44:56,080
I'm not going to ask any questions. I

2481
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:59,040
There's there's nothing that's going to

2482
01:44:56,080 --> 01:45:02,000
compel me to approve this at this point

2483
01:44:59,040 --> 01:45:04,000
in time. Uh, you said it yourself,

2484
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:05,760
Director Man. I rely on your your

2485
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:08,800
honesty and trust with that. And you

2486
01:45:05,760 --> 01:45:11,760
said this makes you very uncomfortable.

2487
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:13,280
It makes me extremely uncomfortable.

2488
01:45:11,760 --> 01:45:15,600
Not due to the fact that look at what

2489
01:45:13,280 --> 01:45:17,040
we're dealing with. not only proincially

2490
01:45:15,600 --> 01:45:19,920
but what we're dealing with in North

2491
01:45:17,040 --> 01:45:23,119
America and globally. This is this is

2492
01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:26,480
not the time for

2493
01:45:23,119 --> 01:45:29,840
us to even endorse or make any any any

2494
01:45:26,480 --> 01:45:31,760
anything close to an investment on this.

2495
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:34,800
We just went through a trunk line in

2496
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:37,920
Wellington to a development to nowhere.

2497
01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:39,760
Um it it

2498
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:41,600
county residents are fatigued. I'm

2499
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:44,639
hearing this all the time. they're tired

2500
01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:47,280
of the kind of spending that uh we're

2501
01:45:44,639 --> 01:45:49,199
going through. We don't have we don't

2502
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:52,800
have the means or capacity to do it. And

2503
01:45:49,199 --> 01:45:55,760
I think we really need to focus on

2504
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:59,040
what's ahead of us, what's going on uh

2505
01:45:55,760 --> 01:46:00,960
around us right now. I think we're in

2506
01:45:59,040 --> 01:46:03,119
I've been predicting this for for quite

2507
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:08,000
a while and it's my predictions are

2508
01:46:03,119 --> 01:46:10,719
coming true. We are in a very perilous

2509
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:13,360
scenario that we need to be very careful

2510
01:46:10,719 --> 01:46:15,920
and cognizant of. If this was my money,

2511
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:18,400
I would not make this uh investment at

2512
01:46:15,920 --> 01:46:22,080
this point in time at all. I also think

2513
01:46:18,400 --> 01:46:24,400
that I don't I'm also trying to be

2514
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:27,360
respectful of a new council. I I do not

2515
01:46:24,400 --> 01:46:29,840
want to hold a new council hostage with

2516
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:31,760
a decision like this until they've had a

2517
01:46:29,840 --> 01:46:33,520
chance to weigh in on it. I think we're

2518
01:46:31,760 --> 01:46:36,159
in that stage now. We're a bit of a de

2519
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:38,480
facto council. I think we've we've heard

2520
01:46:36,159 --> 01:46:40,639
that. I I I don't see that there's any

2521
01:46:38,480 --> 01:46:43,440
rush to do this and I think we can wait.

2522
01:46:40,639 --> 01:46:47,360
I don't uh I will not endorse this just

2523
01:46:43,440 --> 01:46:49,600
due to those scenarios. Um it's uh it

2524
01:46:47,360 --> 01:46:52,000
does not make any sense um to me at all

2525
01:46:49,600 --> 01:46:53,360
to uh to move forward with this.

2526
01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:54,719
» Thank you, Councelor Brainy. Uh

2527
01:46:53,360 --> 01:46:57,520
councelor Hirs.

2528
01:46:54,719 --> 01:47:00,159
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. Unfortunately,

2529
01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:02,000
uncomfortable as it is, as Crystal

2530
01:47:00,159 --> 01:47:04,400
mentioned uh briefly in her

2531
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:07,280
presentation, we do have legal

2532
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:09,920
responsibility to provide services for

2533
01:47:07,280 --> 01:47:11,760
the growth that is that developers are

2534
01:47:09,920 --> 01:47:14,000
coming at us with. So, you have to find

2535
01:47:11,760 --> 01:47:17,199
a way to do it. I think Erin, you've you

2536
01:47:14,000 --> 01:47:20,239
put together a very thorough

2537
01:47:17,199 --> 01:47:22,080
plan, very thorough roadmap. It seems to

2538
01:47:20,239 --> 01:47:26,639
me it's covered every base I can think

2539
01:47:22,080 --> 01:47:28,639
of. uh and both the threats and the and

2540
01:47:26,639 --> 01:47:31,280
the opportunities

2541
01:47:28,639 --> 01:47:33,920
uh the big opportunity being um to get

2542
01:47:31,280 --> 01:47:36,159
front-end payments from uh from the

2543
01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:37,679
developers. In our discussions with them

2544
01:47:36,159 --> 01:47:39,920
over the last few years, all of the

2545
01:47:37,679 --> 01:47:43,600
major developers have indicated a

2546
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:45,040
willingness to to do frontending.

2547
01:47:43,600 --> 01:47:47,760
But I have a question about timing and

2548
01:47:45,040 --> 01:47:50,719
this might be more for for Crystal. At

2549
01:47:47,760 --> 01:47:53,679
what point in a development application

2550
01:47:50,719 --> 01:47:56,400
can we uh start that conversation with

2551
01:47:53,679 --> 01:47:58,960
the developer about about front ending?

2552
01:47:56,400 --> 01:48:01,920
As I recall back in 2021 when we did the

2553
01:47:58,960 --> 01:48:06,400
the uh the Caitlin agreements

2554
01:48:01,920 --> 01:48:09,520
um they had draft plan approval

2555
01:48:06,400 --> 01:48:12,239
and we were wanting to we were at the

2556
01:48:09,520 --> 01:48:14,880
point of issuing uh tenders for the

2557
01:48:12,239 --> 01:48:16,960
pipes and and so on in Wellington. And

2558
01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:18,880
that agreement was based on the number

2559
01:48:16,960 --> 01:48:22,159
of units that they were planning to

2560
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:23,920
build and had a condition that we did

2561
01:48:22,159 --> 01:48:25,920
actually issue tenders for those

2562
01:48:23,920 --> 01:48:28,880
projects. And that was the hold up in

2563
01:48:25,920 --> 01:48:31,199
the in the actual check because we

2564
01:48:28,880 --> 01:48:33,440
hadn't issued those tenders. So at what

2565
01:48:31,199 --> 01:48:35,199
point in the process would we would we

2566
01:48:33,440 --> 01:48:39,280
see the ability to to get those

2567
01:48:35,199 --> 01:48:42,840
agreements from base 31 from from Port

2568
01:48:39,280 --> 01:48:42,840
and so on?

2569
01:48:43,840 --> 01:48:47,920
uh

2570
01:48:45,679 --> 01:48:49,760
they do come from different pieces of

2571
01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:51,520
legislation and potentially Sean Michael

2572
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:54,159
may have some insight into this as well

2573
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:56,880
and he is on the line. Uh but uh from my

2574
01:48:54,159 --> 01:49:00,080
perspective I'm unsure whether we tied

2575
01:48:56,880 --> 01:49:02,560
those together uh to ensure that

2576
01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:05,199
developers continue to move forward uh

2577
01:49:02,560 --> 01:49:07,199
because you often will put pieces of

2578
01:49:05,199 --> 01:49:08,719
that into agreement. So whether we tied

2579
01:49:07,199 --> 01:49:10,159
to the draft plan specifically because

2580
01:49:08,719 --> 01:49:12,480
we wanted to make sure they moved

2581
01:49:10,159 --> 01:49:14,639
together in that order uh or whether we

2582
01:49:12,480 --> 01:49:16,000
did it because we have to uh from my

2583
01:49:14,639 --> 01:49:17,440
perspective I'm not entirely sure

2584
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:19,600
because they do come from two different

2585
01:49:17,440 --> 01:49:22,639
pieces of legislation. Uh whether they

2586
01:49:19,600 --> 01:49:25,280
need to be a certain way through uh the

2587
01:49:22,639 --> 01:49:27,360
line or whether uh council is allowed to

2588
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:29,360
authorize those pre and prepayment

2589
01:49:27,360 --> 01:49:31,679
agreements knowing that development will

2590
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:34,159
be coming down the line. Uh also looks

2591
01:49:31,679 --> 01:49:36,000
like Miss Director McNichol would like

2592
01:49:34,159 --> 01:49:38,320
to speak as well.

2593
01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:39,840
I was just concur going to concur that

2594
01:49:38,320 --> 01:49:40,800
maybe Shawn Michael would have a comment

2595
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:43,920
on that.

2596
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:47,440
» Sean Michael, any comments?

2597
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:49,920
You're on mute. Thanks.

2598
01:49:47,440 --> 01:49:51,199
» Um, yeah, I apologize. I was having a

2599
01:49:49,920 --> 01:49:52,880
little bit of trouble hearing the

2600
01:49:51,199 --> 01:49:54,560
entirety of the question, but if I if

2601
01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:58,880
I'm understanding correctly about some

2602
01:49:54,560 --> 01:50:00,880
of the the timing options around when um

2603
01:49:58,880 --> 01:50:02,400
prepayment or other associated frontend

2604
01:50:00,880 --> 01:50:03,199
financing agreements could be entered

2605
01:50:02,400 --> 01:50:04,159
into.

2606
01:50:03,199 --> 01:50:06,080
» That's That's correct.

2607
01:50:04,159 --> 01:50:09,520
» That's right.

2608
01:50:06,080 --> 01:50:15,199
Yeah. So it it it would re it really um

2609
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:16,400
depends. So the um certainly through um

2610
01:50:15,199 --> 01:50:17,840
subdivision or the development

2611
01:50:16,400 --> 01:50:19,360
agreements of for development

2612
01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:21,440
developments

2613
01:50:19,360 --> 01:50:25,040
that are actively coming through the the

2614
01:50:21,440 --> 01:50:27,920
approvals process is an opportunity. Um

2615
01:50:25,040 --> 01:50:32,560
but in addition to that there are um

2616
01:50:27,920 --> 01:50:35,679
other opportunities with respect to um

2617
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:39,280
situations where um different land

2618
01:50:35,679 --> 01:50:42,159
owners may form a um a larger developer

2619
01:50:39,280 --> 01:50:44,560
group that that have um similar

2620
01:50:42,159 --> 01:50:46,800
interests around making sure this

2621
01:50:44,560 --> 01:50:49,840
infrastructure is in place to facilitate

2622
01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:53,840
their developments. uh and entering into

2623
01:50:49,840 --> 01:50:56,159
other specific um agreements that would

2624
01:50:53,840 --> 01:51:00,639
relate to you know the specific timing

2625
01:50:56,159 --> 01:51:02,719
of when um front-end financing would be

2626
01:51:00,639 --> 01:51:05,520
or prepayments would be contributed and

2627
01:51:02,719 --> 01:51:06,960
the mechanisms for how they would be um

2628
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:09,280
how they would be reconciled and how

2629
01:51:06,960 --> 01:51:11,119
they'd be made whole in terms of the um

2630
01:51:09,280 --> 01:51:12,400
the timing of the development and and

2631
01:51:11,119 --> 01:51:15,119
the interests of of the different

2632
01:51:12,400 --> 01:51:16,480
groups. So, um it could be done again

2633
01:51:15,119 --> 01:51:19,040
individually or it could be done with

2634
01:51:16,480 --> 01:51:21,920
with a larger um consortium if they're

2635
01:51:19,040 --> 01:51:24,080
um if on their end there that that's an

2636
01:51:21,920 --> 01:51:27,239
interest um of them to work together in

2637
01:51:24,080 --> 01:51:27,239
that fashion.

2638
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:29,840
» Thank you. Crystal, did you have a

2639
01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:31,040
comment?

2640
01:51:29,840 --> 01:51:33,199
» Sure. Through the chair, I just wanted

2641
01:51:31,040 --> 01:51:34,800
to to highlight if if the question is

2642
01:51:33,199 --> 01:51:36,800
because you're concerned whether our

2643
01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:39,280
only opportunity is those that are in

2644
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:41,840
the development approval process and are

2645
01:51:39,280 --> 01:51:43,119
available for servicing allocation. I

2646
01:51:41,840 --> 01:51:45,520
don't believe that's the case. I think

2647
01:51:43,119 --> 01:51:47,119
we have more opportunities based off of

2648
01:51:45,520 --> 01:51:49,199
whichever developments are within the

2649
01:51:47,119 --> 01:51:51,040
municipality and are willing to enter

2650
01:51:49,199 --> 01:51:52,960
into those agreements with us.

2651
01:51:51,040 --> 01:51:54,320
» Well, that thank you. And just as a

2652
01:51:52,960 --> 01:51:56,320
followup, that's very encouraging

2653
01:51:54,320 --> 01:51:57,679
because you're right, there are certain

2654
01:51:56,320 --> 01:51:59,440
things that we know, but there's other

2655
01:51:57,679 --> 01:52:02,080
things that we we don't have detail on

2656
01:51:59,440 --> 01:52:04,239
yet. And uh just to Shawn Michael's

2657
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:06,080
point, we do have in fact a developer

2658
01:52:04,239 --> 01:52:08,960
group which is interested in us

2659
01:52:06,080 --> 01:52:10,560
proceeding with the infrastructure and

2660
01:52:08,960 --> 01:52:13,040
again they have all indicated a

2661
01:52:10,560 --> 01:52:15,440
willingness to do this. So uh back to

2662
01:52:13,040 --> 01:52:18,159
Erin I guess and does that mean it's the

2663
01:52:15,440 --> 01:52:21,040
sooner we go at them the better to make

2664
01:52:18,159 --> 01:52:22,560
to to try to reach these agreements so

2665
01:52:21,040 --> 01:52:26,560
that we have some certainty and the

2666
01:52:22,560 --> 01:52:28,400
corollery to that is um are they seems

2667
01:52:26,560 --> 01:52:31,760
to me they're more they are more likely

2668
01:52:28,400 --> 01:52:33,599
they are more likely to be prepared to

2669
01:52:31,760 --> 01:52:35,920
sign on the dotted line for for

2670
01:52:33,599 --> 01:52:39,040
prepayment or or or the full front

2671
01:52:35,920 --> 01:52:41,679
ending if they see that we are actually

2672
01:52:39,040 --> 01:52:44,480
formally proceeding down the line, which

2673
01:52:41,679 --> 01:52:46,639
is what you're asking us to do now, was

2674
01:52:44,480 --> 01:52:50,000
to endorse this road map. So, if they

2675
01:52:46,639 --> 01:52:51,920
see this road map that council approves,

2676
01:52:50,000 --> 01:52:53,920
they're going to be more inclined to

2677
01:52:51,920 --> 01:52:55,520
make those agreements. Does that make

2678
01:52:53,920 --> 01:52:56,960
sense?

2679
01:52:55,520 --> 01:52:58,320
» Uh, through the chair. Absolutely.

2680
01:52:56,960 --> 01:53:00,639
That's right. And that's why we include

2681
01:52:58,320 --> 01:53:02,960
it as a recommendation within the actual

2682
01:53:00,639 --> 01:53:04,080
report so we would act quickly and

2683
01:53:02,960 --> 01:53:07,760
swiftly. Yes.

2684
01:53:04,080 --> 01:53:10,880
» Thank you. Thank you, councelor Maynard.

2685
01:53:07,760 --> 01:53:16,800
» Um, thank you. This is really difficult

2686
01:53:10,880 --> 01:53:20,800
for me because it uh it it brings up um

2687
01:53:16,800 --> 01:53:23,920
some things about water that I I have

2688
01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:26,880
tried over the years to uh to put aside

2689
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:30,560
but I cannot in good conscience support

2690
01:53:26,880 --> 01:53:33,440
something like this when a uh you know

2691
01:53:30,560 --> 01:53:35,840
when and I'll say you know the consequ

2692
01:53:33,440 --> 01:53:38,800
we started in the early 1990s right and

2693
01:53:35,840 --> 01:53:41,199
I think by 94 95 it was it was complete

2694
01:53:38,800 --> 01:53:43,760
and Yes, for the village of Kicon there

2695
01:53:41,199 --> 01:53:45,679
was a substantial grant but there was no

2696
01:53:43,760 --> 01:53:48,159
grant for carrying place, nothing along

2697
01:53:45,679 --> 01:53:51,920
the highway, nothing to oversize the pi

2698
01:53:48,159 --> 01:53:54,080
pipes. We on our own I think we had I

2699
01:53:51,920 --> 01:53:56,639
think it was RV Anderson. We might have

2700
01:53:54,080 --> 01:53:59,840
had uh somebody from the county and a

2701
01:53:56,639 --> 01:54:02,159
few citizen reps and and uh took it to

2702
01:53:59,840 --> 01:54:03,920
the people and we decided we oversized

2703
01:54:02,159 --> 01:54:05,920
that pipe because we knew that the

2704
01:54:03,920 --> 01:54:10,480
growth would happen and we had a good

2705
01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:13,360
supply a good uh supply of um water from

2706
01:54:10,480 --> 01:54:14,960
Quinny West. Um would have been nice if

2707
01:54:13,360 --> 01:54:16,880
that Youngs Cove had have come along

2708
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:18,159
when you know in the in that 10-year

2709
01:54:16,880 --> 01:54:24,719
period but that we thought but it

2710
01:54:18,159 --> 01:54:28,800
didn't. So, we all paid a connection fee

2711
01:54:24,719 --> 01:54:31,520
individually upfront. So, and those that

2712
01:54:28,800 --> 01:54:34,400
um

2713
01:54:31,520 --> 01:54:37,280
five to it was in that $5 to $6,000

2714
01:54:34,400 --> 01:54:40,400
range. And so, some of us could, you

2715
01:54:37,280 --> 01:54:42,159
know, grab the money together. The

2716
01:54:40,400 --> 01:54:44,960
people that didn't, they took out their

2717
01:54:42,159 --> 01:54:47,360
own damn personal loan so that they

2718
01:54:44,960 --> 01:54:49,440
could uh so that they could fund their,

2719
01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:52,400
you know, so it might have taken them 10

2720
01:54:49,440 --> 01:54:54,480
years to do it. We had a good agreement

2721
01:54:52,400 --> 01:54:56,159
with Quinny West. We still do. We

2722
01:54:54,480 --> 01:54:58,080
oversized the pipes. They're, you know,

2723
01:54:56,159 --> 01:55:00,800
they're going to last a good long time.

2724
01:54:58,080 --> 01:55:03,280
And we came to this party with a reserve

2725
01:55:00,800 --> 01:55:05,679
and knowing that we were going to we

2726
01:55:03,280 --> 01:55:07,520
were going to have more development like

2727
01:55:05,679 --> 01:55:09,920
look what's happened and know that

2728
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:11,760
entire area what we've collected that we

2729
01:55:09,920 --> 01:55:14,239
would be self-sufficient

2730
01:55:11,760 --> 01:55:17,119
and now I have to after all these years

2731
01:55:14,239 --> 01:55:19,440
because it's still a sore point go back

2732
01:55:17,119 --> 01:55:22,400
and tell my constituents

2733
01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:27,679
and my water users my neighbors that

2734
01:55:22,400 --> 01:55:30,560
what we did now we are we have to pick

2735
01:55:27,679 --> 01:55:32,960
we have to pick up for what was not done

2736
01:55:30,560 --> 01:55:35,440
in uh in other communities. So, if

2737
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:38,480
developers want to build the houses,

2738
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:39,920
then they're going to have to pay in my

2739
01:55:38,480 --> 01:55:41,520
opinion. Like, it's got to be an

2740
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:44,320
upfront. Why would it be any different

2741
01:55:41,520 --> 01:55:46,159
than what we had to do?

2742
01:55:44,320 --> 01:55:48,000
I mean, ours was a little less

2743
01:55:46,159 --> 01:55:49,840
speculative even than this, right? But

2744
01:55:48,000 --> 01:55:51,840
we weren't sure what was going to happen

2745
01:55:49,840 --> 01:55:54,400
like when we spent a lot of extra money

2746
01:55:51,840 --> 01:55:56,480
to put a different type of pipe and a

2747
01:55:54,400 --> 01:55:58,159
bigger pipe. I don't know, Adam, you

2748
01:55:56,480 --> 01:56:02,320
probably heard those conversations going

2749
01:55:58,159 --> 01:56:03,520
on at that time. And uh it like even

2750
01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:05,199
when we got to the point of

2751
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:08,159
amalgamation,

2752
01:56:05,199 --> 01:56:09,679
we had and it sat there for a long time.

2753
01:56:08,159 --> 01:56:11,280
You know, we had a reserve because we

2754
01:56:09,679 --> 01:56:13,040
knew the water tower would need to be

2755
01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:14,400
painted. I don't know what it was, but I

2756
01:56:13,040 --> 01:56:17,440
mean, it was more than enough to paint

2757
01:56:14,400 --> 01:56:19,360
the water. And you know, Quinny West

2758
01:56:17,440 --> 01:56:20,960
come out and did our service. Not that I

2759
01:56:19,360 --> 01:56:23,840
have anything against our our staff

2760
01:56:20,960 --> 01:56:26,480
doing it, but I mean it was it was

2761
01:56:23,840 --> 01:56:29,199
really a self-sufficient

2762
01:56:26,480 --> 01:56:33,920
system running a long distance. We don't

2763
01:56:29,199 --> 01:56:36,639
have sewer, but uh so my opinion now is

2764
01:56:33,920 --> 01:56:38,960
if if developers or people want to have

2765
01:56:36,639 --> 01:56:43,199
the water, then I think that it should

2766
01:56:38,960 --> 01:56:45,760
we should find a a template like what we

2767
01:56:43,199 --> 01:56:49,520
did in Conse. You want the you want the

2768
01:56:45,760 --> 01:56:52,000
service, show me the money. and they pay

2769
01:56:49,520 --> 01:56:55,679
upfront if it why should we go get the

2770
01:56:52,000 --> 01:56:58,239
loan? They should go get the loan.

2771
01:56:55,679 --> 01:57:00,000
And if and if and if we can't get enough

2772
01:56:58,239 --> 01:57:01,599
and that's what we had if we couldn't

2773
01:57:00,000 --> 01:57:04,239
get enough to buy in then we weren't

2774
01:57:01,599 --> 01:57:06,239
going to have the water. We had to get

2775
01:57:04,239 --> 01:57:09,440
and that was part of it. We had to get

2776
01:57:06,239 --> 01:57:11,760
the buy in from those from other people

2777
01:57:09,440 --> 01:57:14,560
outside of the you know the ones that

2778
01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:18,960
got a little more of the grant to to buy

2779
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:21,599
into that and Gary Rep bought in

2780
01:57:18,960 --> 01:57:25,679
and uh you know that Elizabeth Drive

2781
01:57:21,599 --> 01:57:29,199
they bought in all those areas and uh

2782
01:57:25,679 --> 01:57:30,960
it's it's not fair and I just cannot and

2783
01:57:29,199 --> 01:57:31,920
when I even now when I pull up the

2784
01:57:30,960 --> 01:57:33,360
numbers like you know what they're

2785
01:57:31,920 --> 01:57:37,119
paying for water in Quinny West and

2786
01:57:33,360 --> 01:57:37,520
Valvo like It's not, you know,

2787
01:57:37,119 --> 01:57:39,440
» Okay,

2788
01:57:37,520 --> 01:57:41,280
» It's it's just not fair and I and I

2789
01:57:39,440 --> 01:57:43,440
can't support it and I think we need to

2790
01:57:41,280 --> 01:57:45,920
find a different financing mechanism or

2791
01:57:43,440 --> 01:57:47,440
a different way of allocating or both.

2792
01:57:45,920 --> 01:57:48,719
» Okay. Thank you.

2793
01:57:47,440 --> 01:57:50,000
» I don't think there was a question in

2794
01:57:48,719 --> 01:57:51,760
there that I heard.

2795
01:57:50,000 --> 01:57:54,080
» No, I'm it's fine. I just want to make

2796
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:56,159
sure I get all questions answered.

2797
01:57:54,080 --> 01:57:58,000
» Uh, councelor Engleser, do you have

2798
01:57:56,159 --> 01:58:00,000
» Asked after?

2799
01:57:58,000 --> 01:58:02,960
» Sure. Uh, yeah. One question I'd like to

2800
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:05,280
ask um on the on the nearly 90 million

2801
01:58:02,960 --> 01:58:07,840
in in upfront financing that's

2802
01:58:05,280 --> 01:58:10,159
identified in the report

2803
01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:13,440
realistically is that funding actually

2804
01:58:10,159 --> 01:58:15,840
even achievable um and if so what would

2805
01:58:13,440 --> 01:58:18,080
it take to have that committed be in an

2806
01:58:15,840 --> 01:58:20,639
agreement in an agreement before we even

2807
01:58:18,080 --> 01:58:21,920
proceed with any endorsement because I

2808
01:58:20,639 --> 01:58:23,760
think we need to know whether it's a

2809
01:58:21,920 --> 01:58:26,080
realistic source of funding or just an

2810
01:58:23,760 --> 01:58:29,119
assumption in the financial model before

2811
01:58:26,080 --> 01:58:32,080
we even endorse any plan. So just your

2812
01:58:29,119 --> 01:58:33,599
comment on that maybe

2813
01:58:32,080 --> 01:58:35,920
» Uh through the chair. So I think that is

2814
01:58:33,599 --> 01:58:37,440
the intent is to have council sort of

2815
01:58:35,920 --> 01:58:40,320
give us the go-ahhead to go and talk to

2816
01:58:37,440 --> 01:58:41,840
the developers and I think um I think

2817
01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:44,639
it's hard to say whether or not it is

2818
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:46,400
realistic. Um um but there is a group of

2819
01:58:44,639 --> 01:58:49,440
developers that certainly that is the

2820
01:58:46,400 --> 01:58:52,159
ceiling which is the $89 million um to

2821
01:58:49,440 --> 01:58:55,280
eliminate the $75 million in growth

2822
01:58:52,159 --> 01:58:57,280
related debt in its entirety. So um s

2823
01:58:55,280 --> 01:59:00,000
and certainly we would want to have that

2824
01:58:57,280 --> 01:59:01,920
in place um prior to some of the

2825
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:03,760
construction that would move on. So we

2826
01:59:01,920 --> 01:59:06,320
have three or four months I believe

2827
01:59:03,760 --> 01:59:08,080
before um we would be coming back to

2828
01:59:06,320 --> 01:59:10,560
council and when construction would

2829
01:59:08,080 --> 01:59:13,040
start on the water wastewater uh to

2830
01:59:10,560 --> 01:59:15,760
facilities but the that would probably

2831
01:59:13,040 --> 01:59:17,119
have to be um the staging of that

2832
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:18,560
probably development service can speak

2833
01:59:17,119 --> 01:59:20,400
to but certainly we'll move as quickly

2834
01:59:18,560 --> 01:59:22,960
as possible to try to get this in into

2835
01:59:20,400 --> 01:59:24,320
place before anything occurs so that we

2836
01:59:22,960 --> 01:59:27,119
can see whether or not we can reduce

2837
01:59:24,320 --> 01:59:29,199
financial risk from here to here. So at

2838
01:59:27,119 --> 01:59:31,360
that meeting in June, the last motion, I

2839
01:59:29,199 --> 01:59:32,880
think we already gave direction to go do

2840
01:59:31,360 --> 01:59:34,960
that. So has any of that work happened

2841
01:59:32,880 --> 01:59:37,599
yet? That was in the motion to go talk

2842
01:59:34,960 --> 01:59:40,639
to the development community.

2843
01:59:37,599 --> 01:59:43,440
» I don't believe it has.

2844
01:59:40,639 --> 01:59:45,440
» So through the chair, uh, no, we haven't

2845
01:59:43,440 --> 01:59:48,480
touched base with the developers other

2846
01:59:45,440 --> 01:59:50,800
than our typical conversations that we

2847
01:59:48,480 --> 01:59:52,480
have, which is again trying to make sure

2848
01:59:50,800 --> 01:59:54,159
that they're up to speed in terms of

2849
01:59:52,480 --> 01:59:56,800
what we're doing with this review, what

2850
01:59:54,159 --> 01:59:58,400
we're bringing to council. Uh the main

2851
01:59:56,800 --> 02:00:00,000
purpose of that is we needed to have

2852
01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:01,920
information to be able to make the

2853
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:03,679
conversation make sense with them. And

2854
02:00:01,920 --> 02:00:06,159
uh based on the tight timeline that we

2855
02:00:03,679 --> 02:00:08,560
had of getting this in front of

2856
02:00:06,159 --> 02:00:10,320
committee for August, uh we we didn't

2857
02:00:08,560 --> 02:00:12,639
have that available until within the

2858
02:00:10,320 --> 02:00:14,400
last week or so if I'm being completely

2859
02:00:12,639 --> 02:00:15,920
frank. So we didn't have the ability to

2860
02:00:14,400 --> 02:00:17,920
have those conversations with them,

2861
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:19,280
which is why we've reiterated again in

2862
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:21,679
this uh motion.

2863
02:00:19,280 --> 02:00:23,920
» Okay. I just I don't know how in good

2864
02:00:21,679 --> 02:00:26,800
faith we can put this level of debt and

2865
02:00:23,920 --> 02:00:29,280
rate increases on the residents when so

2866
02:00:26,800 --> 02:00:31,040
much of the strategy depends on future

2867
02:00:29,280 --> 02:00:33,679
growth and funding uh that we don't

2868
02:00:31,040 --> 02:00:35,840
have. Um I think we have a

2869
02:00:33,679 --> 02:00:37,440
responsibility to plan, but we don't

2870
02:00:35,840 --> 02:00:39,199
have to endorse a financial strategy

2871
02:00:37,440 --> 02:00:42,000
that we don't believe is affordable or

2872
02:00:39,199 --> 02:00:43,840
risktested. We're kind of in a lamed up

2873
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:46,719
period right now. So I don't want to

2874
02:00:43,840 --> 02:00:49,599
lock a council into a decision today. I

2875
02:00:46,719 --> 02:00:52,000
think we do some more work um test the

2876
02:00:49,599 --> 02:00:53,119
assumptions but uh it's time for the I

2877
02:00:52,000 --> 02:00:54,880
personally I think it's time for the

2878
02:00:53,119 --> 02:00:56,239
development community to put their money

2879
02:00:54,880 --> 02:00:57,599
where their mouth is. They keep coming

2880
02:00:56,239 --> 02:00:59,679
here and saying that they want to enter

2881
02:00:57,599 --> 02:01:01,520
into something. Uh we haven't seen it

2882
02:00:59,679 --> 02:01:05,840
yet. I think that has to happen before

2883
02:01:01,520 --> 02:01:08,080
we even discuss anything further. So

2884
02:01:05,840 --> 02:01:09,760
» Thank you councelor Engleser. Councelor

2885
02:01:08,080 --> 02:01:12,880
Roberts you're next in line if you have

2886
02:01:09,760 --> 02:01:16,719
something. Yeah, just just a comment. I

2887
02:01:12,880 --> 02:01:19,119
guess I my understanding is that um

2888
02:01:16,719 --> 02:01:21,840
infrastructure Ontario and building the

2889
02:01:19,119 --> 02:01:24,800
building building Ontario fund and uh

2890
02:01:21,840 --> 02:01:29,119
the Canada Infrastructure Bank

2891
02:01:24,800 --> 02:01:31,119
do provide fixedterm interest rate uh

2892
02:01:29,119 --> 02:01:33,199
financial arrangements depending

2893
02:01:31,119 --> 02:01:37,679
something between five and 30 years

2894
02:01:33,199 --> 02:01:39,679
actually uh depending on the uh uh

2895
02:01:37,679 --> 02:01:42,719
useful life of the ass capital asset

2896
02:01:39,679 --> 02:01:46,080
under consideration. So just that's

2897
02:01:42,719 --> 02:01:47,599
there. Um, and obviously that's at a

2898
02:01:46,080 --> 02:01:50,960
lower interest rate than the commercial

2899
02:01:47,599 --> 02:01:53,440
banks. Uh, although I wouldn't mind my

2900
02:01:50,960 --> 02:01:56,560
RBC account interest rate. I could go

2901
02:01:53,440 --> 02:02:00,000
there. Um, and I think that's really

2902
02:01:56,560 --> 02:02:04,239
what you're asking to explore. Uh, Aaron

2903
02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:05,760
and Crystal is what is the feasibility?

2904
02:02:04,239 --> 02:02:08,080
um

2905
02:02:05,760 --> 02:02:10,320
uh

2906
02:02:08,080 --> 02:02:12,880
you know get the facts and then allow

2907
02:02:10,320 --> 02:02:14,560
the facts and the feasibility results to

2908
02:02:12,880 --> 02:02:16,480
determine the decisions that we

2909
02:02:14,560 --> 02:02:19,920
ultimately make. I that's that's the

2910
02:02:16,480 --> 02:02:21,920
sense of what your time here is trying

2911
02:02:19,920 --> 02:02:23,920
to tell us, isn't it? That you want you

2912
02:02:21,920 --> 02:02:26,560
if you know better, you do better. And

2913
02:02:23,920 --> 02:02:28,320
that's what you're trying to get us to.

2914
02:02:26,560 --> 02:02:33,280
And

2915
02:02:28,320 --> 02:02:37,599
I think many folks remember the fiasco

2916
02:02:33,280 --> 02:02:39,679
uh of the Pikton water uh development

2917
02:02:37,599 --> 02:02:43,440
and upgrade

2918
02:02:39,679 --> 02:02:45,520
some time ago where if ever the adage

2919
02:02:43,440 --> 02:02:48,560
time is money

2920
02:02:45,520 --> 02:02:50,960
uh came into play that ended up costing

2921
02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:55,960
a lot more money because of the delay

2922
02:02:50,960 --> 02:02:55,960
involved. So this

2923
02:02:58,000 --> 02:03:02,000
Okay, councelor Nyman, do you have

2924
02:03:00,880 --> 02:03:04,000
something?

2925
02:03:02,000 --> 02:03:05,210
» Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, I'll ask

2926
02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:05,360
questions.

2927
02:03:05,210 --> 02:03:07,040
» [clears throat]

2928
02:03:05,360 --> 02:03:08,880
» I'm going to ask the questions, but I'm

2929
02:03:07,040 --> 02:03:10,560
not supporting this on ways because I

2930
02:03:08,880 --> 02:03:12,239
think

2931
02:03:10,560 --> 02:03:14,239
a while back council said they're

2932
02:03:12,239 --> 02:03:16,880
they're just not comfortable putting

2933
02:03:14,239 --> 02:03:19,599
this kind of money for new plants, new

2934
02:03:16,880 --> 02:03:21,679
infrastructure because we don't believe

2935
02:03:19,599 --> 02:03:23,520
and and the numbers that I'm seeing, I

2936
02:03:21,679 --> 02:03:25,760
still don't believe that we're having

2937
02:03:23,520 --> 02:03:31,679
that kind of growth. It's just not going

2938
02:03:25,760 --> 02:03:33,920
to happen. U and 150 homes a year. So

2939
02:03:31,679 --> 02:03:36,560
the the first question is how many homes

2940
02:03:33,920 --> 02:03:38,960
have we built in the last year and how

2941
02:03:36,560 --> 02:03:40,800
many of those homes were in serviced

2942
02:03:38,960 --> 02:03:42,719
areas?

2943
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:45,679
That's the question we need to know and

2944
02:03:42,719 --> 02:03:47,280
we ask it every time. So today's the day

2945
02:03:45,679 --> 02:03:52,800
to get that answer.

2946
02:03:47,280 --> 02:03:54,400
» Anybody on staff have uh have an answer

2947
02:03:52,800 --> 02:03:56,000
» Uh through the chair? I do not have that

2948
02:03:54,400 --> 02:03:57,760
off the top of my head. However, I can

2949
02:03:56,000 --> 02:03:59,679
get that information and provide it.

2950
02:03:57,760 --> 02:04:02,080
» Thank you.

2951
02:03:59,679 --> 02:04:04,080
So, we need that answer because I'm

2952
02:04:02,080 --> 02:04:07,840
pretty sure there hasn't been too many

2953
02:04:04,080 --> 02:04:11,360
homes built in the service area. So,

2954
02:04:07,840 --> 02:04:15,440
it's nowhere near 150 homes

2955
02:04:11,360 --> 02:04:18,320
and the state of the economy right now

2956
02:04:15,440 --> 02:04:20,719
and the way things are going.

2957
02:04:18,320 --> 02:04:24,239
People were buying houses

2958
02:04:20,719 --> 02:04:27,119
uh through the CO era when they were

2959
02:04:24,239 --> 02:04:29,040
down a bit. Now they're getting that u

2960
02:04:27,119 --> 02:04:32,400
the interest rates are going to be a

2961
02:04:29,040 --> 02:04:36,080
flood of homes coming on the market due

2962
02:04:32,400 --> 02:04:37,520
to people can't afford them. So and then

2963
02:04:36,080 --> 02:04:42,639
we're still saying we're going to have

2964
02:04:37,520 --> 02:04:45,360
150 homes to be built. So I I just don't

2965
02:04:42,639 --> 02:04:46,880
think that we're at that point right

2966
02:04:45,360 --> 02:04:50,480
now.

2967
02:04:46,880 --> 02:04:51,840
But I want to know uh there's a couple

2968
02:04:50,480 --> 02:04:54,400
questions if I if I could.

2969
02:04:51,840 --> 02:04:57,440
» Yeah. I just I just uh Googled and we've

2970
02:04:54,400 --> 02:04:59,440
had 96 permits in uh 2025, but I don't

2971
02:04:57,440 --> 02:05:02,880
know how many were in each area for new

2972
02:04:59,440 --> 02:05:05,360
homes. Uh 75 single detached and 21

2973
02:05:02,880 --> 02:05:07,440
secondary suites, but that's that that's

2974
02:05:05,360 --> 02:05:09,440
according to Google. So, if it's on the

2975
02:05:07,440 --> 02:05:11,440
internet, it's true, I've been told. So,

2976
02:05:09,440 --> 02:05:14,480
carry on with your questions.

2977
02:05:11,440 --> 02:05:16,560
» Okay. Thank you. On page page eight of

2978
02:05:14,480 --> 02:05:21,719
your um

2979
02:05:16,560 --> 02:05:21,719
uh slideshow there,

2980
02:05:22,000 --> 02:05:27,679
Yeah, I think that's the page that where

2981
02:05:24,159 --> 02:05:29,679
you had the DC charges um the full front

2982
02:05:27,679 --> 02:05:31,360
end loading

2983
02:05:29,679 --> 02:05:35,000
connection charges and all that I think

2984
02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:35,000
wasn't it or no?

2985
02:05:39,760 --> 02:05:44,239
» That's correct.

2986
02:05:40,639 --> 02:05:45,920
» Yeah. So, can you just explain and I I

2987
02:05:44,239 --> 02:05:48,080
don't see the numbers up there, but I I

2988
02:05:45,920 --> 02:05:50,320
wrote them down. I might have maybe I

2989
02:05:48,080 --> 02:05:52,239
didn't write them down right, but so

2990
02:05:50,320 --> 02:05:56,239
it's $16,000

2991
02:05:52,239 --> 02:05:58,960
484 for a connection charge to if you're

2992
02:05:56,239 --> 02:05:59,920
building a house in the urban areas,

2993
02:05:58,960 --> 02:06:00,639
right?

2994
02:05:59,920 --> 02:06:03,280
» That's correct.

2995
02:06:00,639 --> 02:06:07,280
» And and that's at this point right now

2996
02:06:03,280 --> 02:06:10,639
» Today. Okay. And is that going to go up

2997
02:06:07,280 --> 02:06:12,800
uh every year

2998
02:06:10,639 --> 02:06:14,800
» Uh through the chair? So the intent is

2999
02:06:12,800 --> 02:06:17,280
to when we go through the DC background

3000
02:06:14,800 --> 02:06:20,639
study is to remove connection charges

3001
02:06:17,280 --> 02:06:21,840
and go to just DC. Um so it'll be a

3002
02:06:20,639 --> 02:06:24,239
development charge. There won't be any

3003
02:06:21,840 --> 02:06:26,080
connection charges moving forward. So uh

3004
02:06:24,239 --> 02:06:28,639
the development charge moving forward

3005
02:06:26,080 --> 02:06:30,320
would be estimated to be 47,000.

3006
02:06:28,639 --> 02:06:32,400
Connection charges wouldn't exist

3007
02:06:30,320 --> 02:06:35,840
anymore. It would just be development

3008
02:06:32,400 --> 02:06:38,480
charges. So it would move from 16,000

3009
02:06:35,840 --> 02:06:41,840
right now and 26,000 [clears throat]

3010
02:06:38,480 --> 02:06:45,040
on the DCs to 47,000 in any of the

3011
02:06:41,840 --> 02:06:47,280
serviced areas. So um

3012
02:06:45,040 --> 02:06:51,040
so the so the 16 and connection charges

3013
02:06:47,280 --> 02:06:54,079
would increase roughly 184% to the

3014
02:06:51,040 --> 02:06:57,840
estimated DC of 47,000.

3015
02:06:54,079 --> 02:06:58,480
» Okay. So it's 47900 is what it is.

3016
02:06:57,840 --> 02:07:01,760
» That's correct.

3017
02:06:58,480 --> 02:07:04,320
» Okay. So then the 33800 DC with full

3018
02:07:01,760 --> 02:07:06,400
front end loading explain can you

3019
02:07:04,320 --> 02:07:08,239
explain that

3020
02:07:06,400 --> 02:07:10,960
» Uh through the chair? So, that's if we

3021
02:07:08,239 --> 02:07:13,520
receive the $89 million in front-end

3022
02:07:10,960 --> 02:07:16,800
financing to completely eliminate the

3023
02:07:13,520 --> 02:07:19,679
$75,000 worth of growth related capital,

3024
02:07:16,800 --> 02:07:23,199
that's what the DC would decrease to

3025
02:07:19,679 --> 02:07:25,599
$33,000. The the DC is made up of uh in

3026
02:07:23,199 --> 02:07:27,360
a large part financing charges and by

3027
02:07:25,599 --> 02:07:29,679
getting the front-end financing in

3028
02:07:27,360 --> 02:07:32,400
place, it would eliminate a large

3029
02:07:29,679 --> 02:07:35,440
portion of the financing. So that is the

3030
02:07:32,400 --> 02:07:38,079
reason why it drops from 47,000 to

3031
02:07:35,440 --> 02:07:40,480
33,000 predominantly.

3032
02:07:38,079 --> 02:07:43,040
» Okay. And then one other question, I

3033
02:07:40,480 --> 02:07:45,840
didn't write it down, but I thought in

3034
02:07:43,040 --> 02:07:47,679
in I don't think it was in that slide,

3035
02:07:45,840 --> 02:07:53,440
but it was in one of your other slides.

3036
02:07:47,679 --> 02:07:57,520
It uh it was 180 million was for um the

3037
02:07:53,440 --> 02:08:00,079
rate based I think and uh 75 for

3038
02:07:57,520 --> 02:08:01,760
capital. Is that is that right or no?

3039
02:08:00,079 --> 02:08:04,880
» That's correct. Okay. [laughter] All

3040
02:08:01,760 --> 02:08:08,320
right. So, I'm just wondering um so any

3041
02:08:04,880 --> 02:08:10,320
new development um so somebody's making

3042
02:08:08,320 --> 02:08:12,239
a subdivision, they pay for the pipes

3043
02:08:10,320 --> 02:08:13,760
and the infrastructure in the ground. Is

3044
02:08:12,239 --> 02:08:16,800
that correct?

3045
02:08:13,760 --> 02:08:20,079
» Yep. Okay. So, then where is what why is

3046
02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:22,079
it costing us 180 million? Where are we

3047
02:08:20,079 --> 02:08:24,159
getting that money and why is it so

3048
02:08:22,079 --> 02:08:26,079
high?

3049
02:08:24,159 --> 02:08:27,599
» Uh I'll maybe try to answer this and

3050
02:08:26,079 --> 02:08:30,079
then I'll pass it over to Shawn Michael.

3051
02:08:27,599 --> 02:08:34,000
So the non non-growth related borrowing

3052
02:08:30,079 --> 02:08:36,560
relates to um

3053
02:08:34,000 --> 02:08:39,679
all of the non-growth related portion of

3054
02:08:36,560 --> 02:08:42,880
the infrastructure. So there was $279

3055
02:08:39,679 --> 02:08:44,800
million and current dollars um that's

3056
02:08:42,880 --> 02:08:47,760
made up of a number of different

3057
02:08:44,800 --> 02:08:50,079
projects. There is a a benefit to

3058
02:08:47,760 --> 02:08:52,560
existing portion and a growth related

3059
02:08:50,079 --> 02:08:55,440
portion. The benefit to existing portion

3060
02:08:52,560 --> 02:08:57,920
is related to uh the capital parts that

3061
02:08:55,440 --> 02:09:01,199
need to go on the rates.

3062
02:08:57,920 --> 02:09:03,440
Those that capital needs to be purchased

3063
02:09:01,199 --> 02:09:06,880
with a construction loan and debt in

3064
02:09:03,440 --> 02:09:10,480
order to service that portion of the

3065
02:09:06,880 --> 02:09:14,159
loan is what gets put on the ratebased.

3066
02:09:10,480 --> 02:09:16,480
So the um so the rates are are increased

3067
02:09:14,159 --> 02:09:19,040
as a result of the benefit to existing

3068
02:09:16,480 --> 02:09:20,880
portions of the capital items that are

3069
02:09:19,040 --> 02:09:23,119
going to be constructed over the next 10

3070
02:09:20,880 --> 02:09:26,360
years, five years in a water wastewater

3071
02:09:23,119 --> 02:09:26,360
rate study.

3072
02:09:28,159 --> 02:09:33,360
» Uh quick followup or clarity.

3073
02:09:30,000 --> 02:09:35,599
» Yeah. So

3074
02:09:33,360 --> 02:09:38,639
I think I'm I think I'm following it but

3075
02:09:35,599 --> 02:09:41,119
I'm not sure. So if we have a

3076
02:09:38,639 --> 02:09:43,280
subdivision here

3077
02:09:41,119 --> 02:09:47,119
and they're paying their portion,

3078
02:09:43,280 --> 02:09:50,239
anything that we upgrade on ours goes,

3079
02:09:47,119 --> 02:09:53,520
we have to cover some of that cost. But

3080
02:09:50,239 --> 02:09:56,000
some of that cost have should go to the

3081
02:09:53,520 --> 02:09:57,920
developer because if it's benefiting

3082
02:09:56,000 --> 02:10:01,679
them, they should be paying some of that

3083
02:09:57,920 --> 02:10:03,280
cost too. So we should not be paying the

3084
02:10:01,679 --> 02:10:06,000
whole thing.

3085
02:10:03,280 --> 02:10:07,520
This is just for our our cost associated

3086
02:10:06,000 --> 02:10:09,679
with it. Just to our portion of the

3087
02:10:07,520 --> 02:10:11,840
capital item, not for we're not paying

3088
02:10:09,679 --> 02:10:15,119
for the developers portion.

3089
02:10:11,840 --> 02:10:17,679
» So if we're upgrade if we have to do an

3090
02:10:15,119 --> 02:10:21,679
upgrade on our system for the benefit of

3091
02:10:17,679 --> 02:10:22,400
them, are they sharing that cost?

3092
02:10:21,679 --> 02:10:24,239
» Go ahead, Crystal.

3093
02:10:22,400 --> 02:10:26,800
» Uh through the chair. So your initial

3094
02:10:24,239 --> 02:10:28,560
question of how come we have growth

3095
02:10:26,800 --> 02:10:30,079
related costs because they're putting

3096
02:10:28,560 --> 02:10:32,239
the infrastructure in the ground on

3097
02:10:30,079 --> 02:10:33,679
their own property. Uh it's because

3098
02:10:32,239 --> 02:10:35,440
based off of whatever they're designing

3099
02:10:33,679 --> 02:10:38,560
on that property, it potentially

3100
02:10:35,440 --> 02:10:40,239
requires us and uh requires upgrades to

3101
02:10:38,560 --> 02:10:42,000
our systems. So it might be in the plant

3102
02:10:40,239 --> 02:10:43,920
itself like you're outlining. They may

3103
02:10:42,000 --> 02:10:44,960
need a new pumping station somewhere.

3104
02:10:43,920 --> 02:10:46,639
They may need all of these

3105
02:10:44,960 --> 02:10:49,199
infrastructure elements that we will

3106
02:10:46,639 --> 02:10:51,360
take over uh and run. They will be

3107
02:10:49,199 --> 02:10:53,199
municipal assets. So that final question

3108
02:10:51,360 --> 02:10:55,040
you just asked that yes, when we have

3109
02:10:53,199 --> 02:10:57,199
elements like that, that's what that

3110
02:10:55,040 --> 02:11:00,000
growth related is. It's their portion of

3111
02:10:57,199 --> 02:11:02,639
upgrading our assets.

3112
02:11:00,000 --> 02:11:02,639
Would you

3113
02:11:02,880 --> 02:11:06,480
Okay. Uh, Mayor Ferguson, do you have

3114
02:11:04,880 --> 02:11:08,560
anything right now?

3115
02:11:06,480 --> 02:11:11,280
» Yeah, a couple of things. Thank you, Mr.

3116
02:11:08,560 --> 02:11:14,239
Chair. Um,

3117
02:11:11,280 --> 02:11:17,599
just looking at the um

3118
02:11:14,239 --> 02:11:19,119
the uh the motion itself.

3119
02:11:17,599 --> 02:11:22,800
Um,

3120
02:11:19,119 --> 02:11:24,560
Aaron, how much money are you asking for

3121
02:11:22,800 --> 02:11:26,800
us today?

3122
02:11:24,560 --> 02:11:29,599
» Nothing. Zero.

3123
02:11:26,800 --> 02:11:35,280
» Okay. I mean, what you're asking us for

3124
02:11:29,599 --> 02:11:40,400
is is basically to explore

3125
02:11:35,280 --> 02:11:42,880
how the plan could be financed,

3126
02:11:40,400 --> 02:11:46,000
were

3127
02:11:42,880 --> 02:11:48,000
negotiations with developers

3128
02:11:46,000 --> 02:11:49,840
um

3129
02:11:48,000 --> 02:11:52,159
successful

3130
02:11:49,840 --> 02:11:56,480
if Infrastructure Ontario or the Canada

3131
02:11:52,159 --> 02:11:58,800
Infrastructure Bank came to play.

3132
02:11:56,480 --> 02:12:02,480
Um,

3133
02:11:58,800 --> 02:12:05,920
and I I that exploration would then lead

3134
02:12:02,480 --> 02:12:08,400
to um further discussion with council

3135
02:12:05,920 --> 02:12:10,800
about what the plan would involve, what

3136
02:12:08,400 --> 02:12:13,920
the costs would involve

3137
02:12:10,800 --> 02:12:16,719
um to inform

3138
02:12:13,920 --> 02:12:18,560
how um

3139
02:12:16,719 --> 02:12:21,280
this

3140
02:12:18,560 --> 02:12:25,360
mammoth undertaking would be financed

3141
02:12:21,280 --> 02:12:28,159
and how would proceed proceed over a

3142
02:12:25,360 --> 02:12:31,440
decade. How how long do you figure what

3143
02:12:28,159 --> 02:12:32,880
the timeline might be for this?

3144
02:12:31,440 --> 02:12:34,400
I mean, this is not going to happen

3145
02:12:32,880 --> 02:12:38,159
overnight.

3146
02:12:34,400 --> 02:12:42,159
So, um but it's going to be a long-term

3147
02:12:38,159 --> 02:12:43,599
project. Um and I'm I'm

3148
02:12:42,159 --> 02:12:47,119
you know, I think what what you're

3149
02:12:43,599 --> 02:12:49,520
asking for is sensible and entirely

3150
02:12:47,119 --> 02:12:53,599
appropriate to do the the research and

3151
02:12:49,520 --> 02:12:56,960
the due diligence to before any plan is

3152
02:12:53,599 --> 02:12:59,360
actually finalized. Um,

3153
02:12:56,960 --> 02:13:01,119
I'm assuming and I want to thank

3154
02:12:59,360 --> 02:13:03,599
everybody that's been involved in

3155
02:13:01,119 --> 02:13:05,920
putting this document together, the

3156
02:13:03,599 --> 02:13:08,560
report and doing all the research and to

3157
02:13:05,920 --> 02:13:11,679
Watson as well.

3158
02:13:08,560 --> 02:13:13,920
Uh, I'm assuming that everybody that you

3159
02:13:11,679 --> 02:13:19,360
in particular

3160
02:13:13,920 --> 02:13:23,440
um believe in this approach.

3161
02:13:19,360 --> 02:13:25,920
I as I know you're conservative.

3162
02:13:23,440 --> 02:13:28,960
Um, but [clears throat] I believe you

3163
02:13:25,920 --> 02:13:30,719
that what you're suggesting here is the

3164
02:13:28,960 --> 02:13:32,960
appropriate thing to do to come up with

3165
02:13:30,719 --> 02:13:35,360
the information that future council will

3166
02:13:32,960 --> 02:13:38,320
be able to make appropriate decisions

3167
02:13:35,360 --> 02:13:44,239
and either go or no go at that time. Am

3168
02:13:38,320 --> 02:13:48,079
I am I right? Okay. Is there

3169
02:13:44,239 --> 02:13:51,280
what are the implications if if that

3170
02:13:48,079 --> 02:13:55,119
does not happen?

3171
02:13:51,280 --> 02:13:58,560
If we get out of here today and and

3172
02:13:55,119 --> 02:14:02,800
we don't have agreement to you know

3173
02:13:58,560 --> 02:14:04,960
basically go and get this information

3174
02:14:02,800 --> 02:14:07,599
» Uh through the chair and I think I I

3175
02:14:04,960 --> 02:14:09,599
think I had mentioned earlier that um

3176
02:14:07,599 --> 02:14:12,159
there are financial pressures no matter

3177
02:14:09,599 --> 02:14:14,719
what scenario we go forward with and

3178
02:14:12,159 --> 02:14:16,960
we're at the stage where um the

3179
02:14:14,719 --> 02:14:19,840
decisions that are made today are key

3180
02:14:16,960 --> 02:14:23,760
inputs um to a lot of different things

3181
02:14:19,840 --> 02:14:26,880
moving forward. It's it's no longer a a

3182
02:14:23,760 --> 02:14:28,880
revenue uh or a revenue neutral

3183
02:14:26,880 --> 02:14:30,719
proposition anymore. This there will be

3184
02:14:28,880 --> 02:14:33,440
costs associated

3185
02:14:30,719 --> 02:14:35,760
um with waiting 6 months, a year, a year

3186
02:14:33,440 --> 02:14:38,000
and a half uh to start getting some of

3187
02:14:35,760 --> 02:14:40,320
these things in place before we make an

3188
02:14:38,000 --> 02:14:43,119
infrastructure decision. Um I think

3189
02:14:40,320 --> 02:14:45,360
engineering has provided the best uh the

3190
02:14:43,119 --> 02:14:47,040
best engineering solution um to this.

3191
02:14:45,360 --> 02:14:50,159
There are costs associated with any

3192
02:14:47,040 --> 02:14:52,159
solution. Um so it was my job to find um

3193
02:14:50,159 --> 02:14:55,679
whether or not we could make this work.

3194
02:14:52,159 --> 02:14:58,400
Uh I think um uh the base case is is

3195
02:14:55,679 --> 02:15:00,880
certainly a tough pill to swallow. Um

3196
02:14:58,400 --> 02:15:03,440
but if we can mitigate some of the other

3197
02:15:00,880 --> 02:15:07,360
risks moving forward, I think uh I think

3198
02:15:03,440 --> 02:15:09,599
this is is uh is is possible to uh uh as

3199
02:15:07,360 --> 02:15:11,440
a solution. So certainly there would be

3200
02:15:09,599 --> 02:15:13,360
a cost associated with I I don't think I

3201
02:15:11,440 --> 02:15:16,480
could quantify that, but there would be

3202
02:15:13,360 --> 02:15:18,480
a cost associated with u us not at least

3203
02:15:16,480 --> 02:15:20,880
moving forward and putting the rest of

3204
02:15:18,480 --> 02:15:23,119
the pieces of the puzzle in place to

3205
02:15:20,880 --> 02:15:25,119
further bring back a report to council

3206
02:15:23,119 --> 02:15:27,199
uh to determine whether or not this is

3207
02:15:25,119 --> 02:15:30,639
going to make sense or not sense.

3208
02:15:27,199 --> 02:15:34,480
» Okay. And then there just follow up that

3209
02:15:30,639 --> 02:15:36,800
any implications of you know problems

3210
02:15:34,480 --> 02:15:40,159
with the the province and securing other

3211
02:15:36,800 --> 02:15:42,639
funding. But you did say a um a mouthful

3212
02:15:40,159 --> 02:15:44,719
a second ago when you said find out if

3213
02:15:42,639 --> 02:15:48,400
this can work

3214
02:15:44,719 --> 02:15:50,400
and I I think it would be entirely

3215
02:15:48,400 --> 02:15:52,960
appropriate to give you that opportunity

3216
02:15:50,400 --> 02:15:57,320
to find out if this can work.

3217
02:15:52,960 --> 02:15:57,320
» Thank you councelor Pal.

3218
02:15:57,440 --> 02:16:06,800
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh to start it out

3219
02:16:01,840 --> 02:16:10,400
with the estimated cost

3220
02:16:06,800 --> 02:16:14,719
on the water going to Picton,

3221
02:16:10,400 --> 02:16:17,679
is that does that have uh a contingency

3222
02:16:14,719 --> 02:16:20,320
fund built into it? because that makes

3223
02:16:17,679 --> 02:16:24,239
all the difference in the world on what

3224
02:16:20,320 --> 02:16:26,960
the price could be because

3225
02:16:24,239 --> 02:16:30,480
unfortunately pretty well everything the

3226
02:16:26,960 --> 02:16:33,120
county has tackled in the past has been

3227
02:16:30,480 --> 02:16:36,000
over budget.

3228
02:16:33,120 --> 02:16:36,800
So who could answer that if a

3229
02:16:36,000 --> 02:16:37,920
contingency

3230
02:16:36,800 --> 02:16:41,599
» Crystal

3231
02:16:37,920 --> 02:16:43,280
» Uh so through the chair uh 2B scenario

3232
02:16:41,599 --> 02:16:46,559
that's before you does include the

3233
02:16:43,280 --> 02:16:49,040
transmission uh for having water

3234
02:16:46,559 --> 02:16:51,120
uh provided with the regional solution.

3235
02:16:49,040 --> 02:16:52,960
Uh I I think an important slide just

3236
02:16:51,120 --> 02:16:57,920
also for the record and anyone listening

3237
02:16:52,960 --> 02:17:00,080
online, page 100 of the uh report or of

3238
02:16:57,920 --> 02:17:02,080
the agenda points to the sensitivity

3239
02:17:00,080 --> 02:17:04,719
analysis table and that includes all of

3240
02:17:02,080 --> 02:17:07,120
the sensitivity analyses that uh

3241
02:17:04,719 --> 02:17:10,160
director McNichol outlined as well as it

3242
02:17:07,120 --> 02:17:12,960
includes the other two alternate

3243
02:17:10,160 --> 02:17:15,280
scenarios because again to be frank

3244
02:17:12,960 --> 02:17:16,479
we're choosing one of the three. we we

3245
02:17:15,280 --> 02:17:18,559
don't really have an option of choosing

3246
02:17:16,479 --> 02:17:20,319
nothing. So even de facto choosing

3247
02:17:18,559 --> 02:17:22,479
nothing is pointing us in one of those

3248
02:17:20,319 --> 02:17:24,719
directions. Uh they all do have costs

3249
02:17:22,479 --> 02:17:28,160
associated with them. Uh the basis

3250
02:17:24,719 --> 02:17:30,880
between scenario 2B uh it includes the

3251
02:17:28,160 --> 02:17:32,719
transmission and uh water being serviced

3252
02:17:30,880 --> 02:17:35,760
from the regional plant in Wellington.

3253
02:17:32,719 --> 02:17:38,319
2C investigates whether we keep separate

3254
02:17:35,760 --> 02:17:40,639
plants, two plants in Pikton and two

3255
02:17:38,319 --> 02:17:42,880
plants in uh Wellington. So that has

3256
02:17:40,639 --> 02:17:44,800
been reviewed albeit with high level

3257
02:17:42,880 --> 02:17:46,719
conservative estimates. uh but it does

3258
02:17:44,800 --> 02:17:48,559
look at the comparison of what the cost

3259
02:17:46,719 --> 02:17:50,639
difference would be between providing it

3260
02:17:48,559 --> 02:17:52,399
through the regional and providing it uh

3261
02:17:50,639 --> 02:17:54,319
separately here in Pikton and it does

3262
02:17:52,399 --> 02:17:56,240
show through that analysis that it is

3263
02:17:54,319 --> 02:17:58,880
slightly more expensive to do the four

3264
02:17:56,240 --> 02:18:01,599
plants versus the three.

3265
02:17:58,880 --> 02:18:05,840
» I appreciate the answer but it's not

3266
02:18:01,599 --> 02:18:10,000
really answering the question I asked on

3267
02:18:05,840 --> 02:18:15,280
the amount we were shown. Does that have

3268
02:18:10,000 --> 02:18:16,880
a contingency fund built in or not? So

3269
02:18:15,280 --> 02:18:19,040
» Through the chair

3270
02:18:16,880 --> 02:18:22,240
» The there is in the sensitivity analysis

3271
02:18:19,040 --> 02:18:24,880
a 10% and a 20% contingency for

3272
02:18:22,240 --> 02:18:27,280
construction if costs would change. Uh

3273
02:18:24,880 --> 02:18:28,880
we would when we do individual projects

3274
02:18:27,280 --> 02:18:30,160
which we're not there yet because we do

3275
02:18:28,880 --> 02:18:31,920
not have any direction from the

3276
02:18:30,160 --> 02:18:34,000
committee at this point in time once we

3277
02:18:31,920 --> 02:18:36,240
get the direction to put the work in.

3278
02:18:34,000 --> 02:18:39,920
There is always a contingency built into

3279
02:18:36,240 --> 02:18:44,880
our projects. So the cost we're seeing

3280
02:18:39,920 --> 02:18:48,160
is actually just a guesstimate.

3281
02:18:44,880 --> 02:18:50,399
If if we're got to wait until we send a

3282
02:18:48,160 --> 02:18:53,599
tender out

3283
02:18:50,399 --> 02:18:54,639
to know exactly where we're going, it's

3284
02:18:53,599 --> 02:18:56,240
a guest on

3285
02:18:54,639 --> 02:18:58,080
» CEO. You're

3286
02:18:56,240 --> 02:19:00,160
» Mr. Chair. No, I would just comment just

3287
02:18:58,080 --> 02:19:01,760
in how these projects come together. Uh

3288
02:19:00,160 --> 02:19:02,880
at this time, we are we're doing a

3289
02:19:01,760 --> 02:19:04,319
planning exercise. I want to remind

3290
02:19:02,880 --> 02:19:06,639
everyone we are doing a long-term

3291
02:19:04,319 --> 02:19:08,559
infrastructure planning exercise. And at

3292
02:19:06,639 --> 02:19:10,719
this time those numbers that are in the

3293
02:19:08,559 --> 02:19:12,319
in the scenarios are high level

3294
02:19:10,719 --> 02:19:14,240
estimates and they're based on the

3295
02:19:12,319 --> 02:19:16,399
consultants's best understanding of like

3296
02:19:14,240 --> 02:19:18,240
projects all around and they do include

3297
02:19:16,399 --> 02:19:20,399
a contingency. Now as we move toward

3298
02:19:18,240 --> 02:19:22,479
detailed design and and further on down

3299
02:19:20,399 --> 02:19:24,000
the the the the pro uh the project

3300
02:19:22,479 --> 02:19:25,519
timeline we would have a much better

3301
02:19:24,000 --> 02:19:27,200
estimate as that design comes together.

3302
02:19:25,519 --> 02:19:28,319
But as of now they are high level I

3303
02:19:27,200 --> 02:19:29,679
would argue fairly conservative

3304
02:19:28,319 --> 02:19:31,280
estimates that it do include

3305
02:19:29,679 --> 02:19:32,240
construction contingencies. Yeah,

3306
02:19:31,280 --> 02:19:36,479
» Thank you. M

3307
02:19:32,240 --> 02:19:38,399
» I got a question for Aaron as well and

3308
02:19:36,479 --> 02:19:41,040
that is

3309
02:19:38,399 --> 02:19:44,080
if we're looking within

3310
02:19:41,040 --> 02:19:46,160
the 15%

3311
02:19:44,080 --> 02:19:47,760
borrowing.

3312
02:19:46,160 --> 02:19:51,840
Okay,

3313
02:19:47,760 --> 02:19:55,520
we we keep saying that good development

3314
02:19:51,840 --> 02:20:00,720
phase for development or that this falls

3315
02:19:55,520 --> 02:20:02,560
on to the water rate people. But reality

3316
02:20:00,720 --> 02:20:05,040
is

3317
02:20:02,560 --> 02:20:08,399
when the municipality

3318
02:20:05,040 --> 02:20:11,680
borrows the money, it's not the

3319
02:20:08,399 --> 02:20:13,200
waterworks that owes the money. It's the

3320
02:20:11,680 --> 02:20:17,200
municipality.

3321
02:20:13,200 --> 02:20:18,720
the So therefore, if we don't have

3322
02:20:17,200 --> 02:20:21,840
everybody

3323
02:20:18,720 --> 02:20:24,960
that we're going to get from developers

3324
02:20:21,840 --> 02:20:28,399
or that the people that are paying the

3325
02:20:24,960 --> 02:20:31,600
bill can't afford it, what do you do?

3326
02:20:28,399 --> 02:20:33,200
Every taxpayer in this county could end

3327
02:20:31,600 --> 02:20:34,960
up

3328
02:20:33,200 --> 02:20:37,439
paying

3329
02:20:34,960 --> 02:20:41,760
for a water system that they'll never

3330
02:20:37,439 --> 02:20:45,200
use. So that's one concern I got. The

3331
02:20:41,760 --> 02:20:48,560
other thing is uh

3332
02:20:45,200 --> 02:20:52,319
when we look at development charges, I

3333
02:20:48,560 --> 02:20:54,800
can't imagine a developer coming in

3334
02:20:52,319 --> 02:20:58,319
wants to build a thousand houses. We'll

3335
02:20:54,800 --> 02:21:01,520
say that he's going to pay upfront for a

3336
02:20:58,319 --> 02:21:05,040
th000 he's going to want to I would

3337
02:21:01,520 --> 02:21:06,960
suspect to pay what he can build in the

3338
02:21:05,040 --> 02:21:11,600
next year.

3339
02:21:06,960 --> 02:21:15,680
uh otherwise it would get so expensive

3340
02:21:11,600 --> 02:21:19,520
they might not even want to do those. So

3341
02:21:15,680 --> 02:21:24,399
is it possible to ask if somebody's

3342
02:21:19,520 --> 02:21:26,560
doing a whole subdivision everything up

3343
02:21:24,399 --> 02:21:30,040
front even though it might take them 10

3344
02:21:26,560 --> 02:21:30,040
years to build

3345
02:21:30,880 --> 02:21:33,680
uh through the through the share? I

3346
02:21:32,240 --> 02:21:35,840
don't think we're asking for uh

3347
02:21:33,680 --> 02:21:38,080
developers to pay for the whole project

3348
02:21:35,840 --> 02:21:42,080
up front. We're we're just um we just

3349
02:21:38,080 --> 02:21:44,640
know we need to um uh collect $89

3350
02:21:42,080 --> 02:21:47,760
million in order to remove the $790

3351
02:21:44,640 --> 02:21:50,319
million. That may relate to one phase of

3352
02:21:47,760 --> 02:21:52,800
a project. It may relate to more phases.

3353
02:21:50,319 --> 02:21:55,920
It may relate to a methodology like

3354
02:21:52,800 --> 02:21:57,840
capacity. Um it just depends. But uh

3355
02:21:55,920 --> 02:21:59,840
certainly yes, I think you're right that

3356
02:21:57,840 --> 02:22:02,399
a developer wouldn't pay for their whole

3357
02:21:59,840 --> 02:22:04,880
development if it was 30 or 50 or 60 or

3358
02:22:02,399 --> 02:22:08,240
70 years out. The reason why I was

3359
02:22:04,880 --> 02:22:10,000
asking that question is simple. If

3360
02:22:08,240 --> 02:22:13,840
you're going to put a water line from

3361
02:22:10,000 --> 02:22:17,600
Wellington to Pikton, it's got to be not

3362
02:22:13,840 --> 02:22:21,200
only the size to do right now, it's got

3363
02:22:17,600 --> 02:22:25,760
to be for the future. And if you have to

3364
02:22:21,200 --> 02:22:27,439
oversize it and with the cost of putting

3365
02:22:25,760 --> 02:22:30,399
it in,

3366
02:22:27,439 --> 02:22:32,319
who's picking up that difference when

3367
02:22:30,399 --> 02:22:35,439
developers are going to be down the

3368
02:22:32,319 --> 02:22:38,720
road? Is that taxpayers?

3369
02:22:35,439 --> 02:22:42,080
Is it water users? Is it developer?

3370
02:22:38,720 --> 02:22:45,120
Somebody's got to pay for it.

3371
02:22:42,080 --> 02:22:46,479
» Erin, do you take one more stab at it?

3372
02:22:45,120 --> 02:22:48,160
» Sure. Through through the through the

3373
02:22:46,479 --> 02:22:49,600
chair. So a portion of that would be

3374
02:22:48,160 --> 02:22:51,920
related to the development charges. So

3375
02:22:49,600 --> 02:22:53,760
if we received uh upfront financing,

3376
02:22:51,920 --> 02:22:56,160
then we'd use development charges to pay

3377
02:22:53,760 --> 02:22:58,560
for that or to pay for the penalties or

3378
02:22:56,160 --> 02:23:00,319
or to pay for the interest in principle.

3379
02:22:58,560 --> 02:23:02,800
Um and if there was a benefit to

3380
02:23:00,319 --> 02:23:04,720
existing uh portion of that transmission

3381
02:23:02,800 --> 02:23:07,920
line, then that would be on the the

3382
02:23:04,720 --> 02:23:09,920
rateayers. So uh there would be no cost

3383
02:23:07,920 --> 02:23:11,120
associated with that on on the taxpayer

3384
02:23:09,920 --> 02:23:13,280
and that would be built into the water

3385
02:23:11,120 --> 02:23:16,640
and wastewater rate study. And then we

3386
02:23:13,280 --> 02:23:19,040
would utilize the the DC um upfront

3387
02:23:16,640 --> 02:23:20,319
financing uh to offset the cost of the

3388
02:23:19,040 --> 02:23:22,479
transmission line.

3389
02:23:20,319 --> 02:23:23,200
» Uh thank you. We're going to keep

3390
02:23:22,479 --> 02:23:25,760
rolling right now.

3391
02:23:23,200 --> 02:23:26,240
» I I was just going to make one quick

3392
02:23:25,760 --> 02:23:29,200
comment.

3393
02:23:26,240 --> 02:23:32,479
» Quick comment. certain

3394
02:23:29,200 --> 02:23:35,800
» When it comes to vote on this. I've got

3395
02:23:32,479 --> 02:23:35,800
no question

3396
02:23:36,960 --> 02:23:41,359
providing it just says to pick up more

3397
02:23:39,680 --> 02:23:43,840
information,

3398
02:23:41,359 --> 02:23:46,160
but I don't want to make any decisions.

3399
02:23:43,840 --> 02:23:48,000
» That's Yeah. When we before we call the

3400
02:23:46,160 --> 02:23:50,479
vote, we will confirm what it's what it

3401
02:23:48,000 --> 02:23:52,160
is. Uh so, Council McDott, you told me

3402
02:23:50,479 --> 02:23:54,479
earlier you had a second round, so I'll

3403
02:23:52,160 --> 02:23:56,800
start over with you again. I mean, I

3404
02:23:54,479 --> 02:23:58,240
might have a third, too, if you're gonna

3405
02:23:56,800 --> 02:24:02,000
» We'll see.

3406
02:23:58,240 --> 02:24:03,359
» This is an important topic. Um, so I

3407
02:24:02,000 --> 02:24:04,880
kind of want to touch on a few things

3408
02:24:03,359 --> 02:24:06,640
that I've heard around the table, and I

3409
02:24:04,880 --> 02:24:08,720
and I have to say I agree with a number

3410
02:24:06,640 --> 02:24:11,680
of uh concerns that have been brought

3411
02:24:08,720 --> 02:24:12,960
up. One is the tariff situation, the

3412
02:24:11,680 --> 02:24:14,960
cost of materials, the cost of

3413
02:24:12,960 --> 02:24:18,080
construction that I think Chris alluded

3414
02:24:14,960 --> 02:24:21,120
to. Um, I I have concerns about that

3415
02:24:18,080 --> 02:24:23,359
too. And that ties into what council

3416
02:24:21,120 --> 02:24:26,319
Roberts was talking about with the water

3417
02:24:23,359 --> 02:24:29,920
wastewater or the wastewater plant that

3418
02:24:26,319 --> 02:24:32,720
picked in sort of uh that there was a

3419
02:24:29,920 --> 02:24:35,040
bit of a a time delayed trap based on

3420
02:24:32,720 --> 02:24:38,399
opposition to plans that eventually came

3421
02:24:35,040 --> 02:24:40,479
back around that ended up costing a lot

3422
02:24:38,399 --> 02:24:44,160
more money. But I worry that we're

3423
02:24:40,479 --> 02:24:48,000
already kind of in there right now um

3424
02:24:44,160 --> 02:24:50,720
because of the uh trade situation and

3425
02:24:48,000 --> 02:24:54,640
the cost of materials. Um and I'm very

3426
02:24:50,720 --> 02:24:57,200
concerned about that risk. Um I I do

3427
02:24:54,640 --> 02:25:01,760
understand the risk of doing nothing is

3428
02:24:57,200 --> 02:25:03,840
is perhaps bigger and perhaps puts us in

3429
02:25:01,760 --> 02:25:06,479
a position where we're not fulfilling

3430
02:25:03,840 --> 02:25:08,399
our provincial obligations.

3431
02:25:06,479 --> 02:25:10,640
Um, and that's come up in this

3432
02:25:08,399 --> 02:25:12,319
discussion. Um, but and I also want to

3433
02:25:10,640 --> 02:25:14,080
just correct debentures. Once

3434
02:25:12,319 --> 02:25:15,520
something's debentured out, the the

3435
02:25:14,080 --> 02:25:18,080
interest rate fluctuation risk

3436
02:25:15,520 --> 02:25:21,040
disappears. It's the getting to the

3437
02:25:18,080 --> 02:25:22,880
debenture that's the real risky zone.

3438
02:25:21,040 --> 02:25:24,560
And we don't have a lot of control over

3439
02:25:22,880 --> 02:25:26,479
that. Now, I did try to look at

3440
02:25:24,560 --> 02:25:28,319
projections. I didn't have a lot of time

3441
02:25:26,479 --> 02:25:30,640
and I don't understand them anyway half

3442
02:25:28,319 --> 02:25:33,280
the time. Um, but the projections look

3443
02:25:30,640 --> 02:25:35,760
modest and I'm not sure. I think

3444
02:25:33,280 --> 02:25:40,960
actually interest rates there might be

3445
02:25:35,760 --> 02:25:44,479
some um some uh sort of rate correction

3446
02:25:40,960 --> 02:25:47,600
to look for public investment uh

3447
02:25:44,479 --> 02:25:49,600
nationally in Canada but I don't know

3448
02:25:47,600 --> 02:25:51,280
again that's like trying to predict the

3449
02:25:49,600 --> 02:25:54,080
future. So I just wanted to kind of come

3450
02:25:51,280 --> 02:25:56,880
back to those areas where I hear

3451
02:25:54,080 --> 02:25:58,640
uncertainty and I just wanted to say I I

3452
02:25:56,880 --> 02:26:01,520
share that uncertainty. I'm very

3453
02:25:58,640 --> 02:26:04,640
concerned about those areas. Um and I

3454
02:26:01,520 --> 02:26:08,080
and I worry that our uh capsule in time

3455
02:26:04,640 --> 02:26:11,920
is very difficult right now. Um I I

3456
02:26:08,080 --> 02:26:13,600
understand also the the risks of the no

3457
02:26:11,920 --> 02:26:15,760
growth scenario and the risks of doing

3458
02:26:13,600 --> 02:26:18,880
nothing which might not be permitted at

3459
02:26:15,760 --> 02:26:22,560
all. But I want to understand if like if

3460
02:26:18,880 --> 02:26:24,479
we do start embarking on an actual not

3461
02:26:22,560 --> 02:26:27,520
not talking to developers and getting

3462
02:26:24,479 --> 02:26:29,520
their understanding or uh you know a

3463
02:26:27,520 --> 02:26:32,479
number of these clauses but if we do

3464
02:26:29,520 --> 02:26:34,240
move forward with concrete plans um and

3465
02:26:32,479 --> 02:26:35,680
considering there are many many

3466
02:26:34,240 --> 02:26:39,200
municipalities in the same boat does

3467
02:26:35,680 --> 02:26:41,760
that does that create another sort of

3468
02:26:39,200 --> 02:26:43,600
soft risk of

3469
02:26:41,760 --> 02:26:45,760
letting the province off the hook

3470
02:26:43,600 --> 02:26:48,479
because we have to meet our obligations

3471
02:26:45,760 --> 02:26:50,960
to them which are putting in part

3472
02:26:48,479 --> 02:26:52,960
putting us in this position. So that's

3473
02:26:50,960 --> 02:26:57,439
just sort of a question to leave hanging

3474
02:26:52,960 --> 02:26:59,840
in the air. Um because as we absorb as

3475
02:26:57,439 --> 02:27:02,720
rateayers in particular the financial

3476
02:26:59,840 --> 02:27:04,479
risk of uh require provincial

3477
02:27:02,720 --> 02:27:06,319
requirements

3478
02:27:04,479 --> 02:27:09,200
there's there's some pain points in

3479
02:27:06,319 --> 02:27:13,200
there that I struggle with. Um,

3480
02:27:09,200 --> 02:27:14,560
additionally, and uh I this will be I

3481
02:27:13,200 --> 02:27:18,240
would maybe want to hear your

3482
02:27:14,560 --> 02:27:21,040
perspective on this. I I never want our

3483
02:27:18,240 --> 02:27:23,920
financial plan to

3484
02:27:21,040 --> 02:27:27,280
become dissuasive

3485
02:27:23,920 --> 02:27:29,920
uh for us to continue to advocate for

3486
02:27:27,280 --> 02:27:33,680
and encourage affordable components in

3487
02:27:29,920 --> 02:27:35,359
every development because we um have a

3488
02:27:33,680 --> 02:27:38,720
legislated

3489
02:27:35,359 --> 02:27:41,439
requirement to reduce um to reduce

3490
02:27:38,720 --> 02:27:44,640
development charges for affordable

3491
02:27:41,439 --> 02:27:46,399
uh dwellings coming online. So, I don't

3492
02:27:44,640 --> 02:27:49,680
know how much of that has been factored

3493
02:27:46,399 --> 02:27:53,120
in. Um, and I don't ever want us to be

3494
02:27:49,680 --> 02:27:55,120
in a position where we're actively

3495
02:27:53,120 --> 02:27:57,120
feeling compelled to accept

3496
02:27:55,120 --> 02:27:58,720
developments, even developments that the

3497
02:27:57,120 --> 02:28:04,160
community doesn't necessarily find

3498
02:27:58,720 --> 02:28:06,240
savory or that um are not um strongly

3499
02:28:04,160 --> 02:28:09,520
encouraging and including affordable

3500
02:28:06,240 --> 02:28:12,160
dwellings that would be able to um

3501
02:28:09,520 --> 02:28:14,720
receive those um development charge

3502
02:28:12,160 --> 02:28:17,920
benefits.

3503
02:28:14,720 --> 02:28:19,680
Has that been considered or is it too

3504
02:28:17,920 --> 02:28:20,800
early to con do you have any comments

3505
02:28:19,680 --> 02:28:22,080
on? Yes.

3506
02:28:20,800 --> 02:28:25,760
» Through the chair. There's a lot to

3507
02:28:22,080 --> 02:28:28,960
unpack there. Um that's okay. Um

3508
02:28:25,760 --> 02:28:30,960
» Uh regarding the tariffs, um Sean

3509
02:28:28,960 --> 02:28:32,720
Michael and I from Watson did talk

3510
02:28:30,960 --> 02:28:34,479
yesterday with an just about the

3511
02:28:32,720 --> 02:28:37,040
implications associated with existing

3512
02:28:34,479 --> 02:28:39,200
tariffs and potential tariffs. Um, so

3513
02:28:37,040 --> 02:28:41,760
maybe I could have him potentially

3514
02:28:39,200 --> 02:28:44,560
answer that or comment on that as well

3515
02:28:41,760 --> 02:28:49,359
as the uh the affordable housing um

3516
02:28:44,560 --> 02:28:51,600
piece as well. Um um and then I can

3517
02:28:49,359 --> 02:28:53,200
comment on some of the some of the uh

3518
02:28:51,600 --> 02:28:55,120
items that we have some of the controls

3519
02:28:53,200 --> 02:28:57,359
we have in place so that there are no

3520
02:28:55,120 --> 02:28:59,439
cost uh overruns. I was trying to sort

3521
02:28:57,359 --> 02:29:02,000
of write down what you're saying.

3522
02:28:59,439 --> 02:29:03,600
» I can break it down if if you need at

3523
02:29:02,000 --> 02:29:04,160
any point, but they all kind of go

3524
02:29:03,600 --> 02:29:05,359
together.

3525
02:29:04,160 --> 02:29:08,240
» Yep.

3526
02:29:05,359 --> 02:29:13,080
So Sean, Michael, do you have a comment

3527
02:29:08,240 --> 02:29:13,080
on tariffs or affordable housing?

3528
02:29:14,000 --> 02:29:18,560
» Certainly. So in terms of of tariffs,

3529
02:29:16,160 --> 02:29:20,880
um, from my expertise, that's a little

3530
02:29:18,560 --> 02:29:23,120
bit of an unknown at this point in time.

3531
02:29:20,880 --> 02:29:24,960
I think uh as we have a better

3532
02:29:23,120 --> 02:29:26,880
understanding of the specific industries

3533
02:29:24,960 --> 02:29:30,479
affected by the tariffs, I I think that

3534
02:29:26,880 --> 02:29:31,920
would be a question that um the county's

3535
02:29:30,479 --> 02:29:33,920
engineering consultants would probably

3536
02:29:31,920 --> 02:29:38,640
be better positioned to answer in terms

3537
02:29:33,920 --> 02:29:41,520
of um what industries are um affected by

3538
02:29:38,640 --> 02:29:43,280
that in relation to the the underground

3539
02:29:41,520 --> 02:29:45,920
and facility infrastructure that's

3540
02:29:43,280 --> 02:29:48,479
planned. Um

3541
02:29:45,920 --> 02:29:54,080
» Totally get it. And in terms of the

3542
02:29:48,479 --> 02:29:56,399
affordable housing, um the so there are

3543
02:29:54,080 --> 02:29:58,080
legislated exemptions for affordable

3544
02:29:56,399 --> 02:29:59,760
housing with respect to development

3545
02:29:58,080 --> 02:30:03,439
charges that currently exist if they

3546
02:29:59,760 --> 02:30:05,680
meet the um provinc's threshold for

3547
02:30:03,439 --> 02:30:09,359
rental or ownership affordable housing

3548
02:30:05,680 --> 02:30:12,080
in the um in the province's bulletin for

3549
02:30:09,359 --> 02:30:14,560
those um development charge exemptions

3550
02:30:12,080 --> 02:30:18,319
that they release annually. Um and

3551
02:30:14,560 --> 02:30:20,479
further to that, uh council always has

3552
02:30:18,319 --> 02:30:23,600
the ability through the passing of a

3553
02:30:20,479 --> 02:30:25,600
development charge bylaw to um define

3554
02:30:23,600 --> 02:30:28,640
other exemptions and could have more

3555
02:30:25,600 --> 02:30:31,439
permissive uh exemption thresholds than

3556
02:30:28,640 --> 02:30:33,280
the province is allowing as well. Um I

3557
02:30:31,439 --> 02:30:36,240
would just think it's important to note

3558
02:30:33,280 --> 02:30:38,160
that when you exempt development

3559
02:30:36,240 --> 02:30:40,000
charges, you're making a decision to not

3560
02:30:38,160 --> 02:30:41,359
collect that revenue and you're not to

3561
02:30:40,000 --> 02:30:43,520
pass that on to other forms of

3562
02:30:41,359 --> 02:30:45,760
development. That's a that becomes a

3563
02:30:43,520 --> 02:30:47,439
county funding obligation.

3564
02:30:45,760 --> 02:30:48,720
» Thank you. I'm going to give Crystal the

3565
02:30:47,439 --> 02:30:49,760
opportunity for a second because

3566
02:30:48,720 --> 02:30:52,000
» Sure

3567
02:30:49,760 --> 02:30:54,000
» She might be able to answer your next.

3568
02:30:52,000 --> 02:30:55,680
» Thank you. Uh Mr. Chair, I just wanted

3569
02:30:54,000 --> 02:30:57,920
to touch on your comment which I thought

3570
02:30:55,680 --> 02:31:00,800
was interesting uh and relevant for the

3571
02:30:57,920 --> 02:31:02,399
provincial like how does this impact uh

3572
02:31:00,800 --> 02:31:04,399
proincially if we're approving this and

3573
02:31:02,399 --> 02:31:06,640
moving forward. Uh and it is true

3574
02:31:04,399 --> 02:31:08,240
there's often uh different strategies

3575
02:31:06,640 --> 02:31:09,600
and different ways that the pro province

3576
02:31:08,240 --> 02:31:11,359
decides where they give their granting

3577
02:31:09,600 --> 02:31:13,040
money, things like that. However, what

3578
02:31:11,359 --> 02:31:14,880
we have found is has been the most

3579
02:31:13,040 --> 02:31:16,640
successful for us is when we do have

3580
02:31:14,880 --> 02:31:19,200
these plans and we're able to bring as

3581
02:31:16,640 --> 02:31:21,120
many projects to shovel ready as we can,

3582
02:31:19,200 --> 02:31:23,200
uh, we look the best for granting

3583
02:31:21,120 --> 02:31:24,960
opportunities. So, that does help us

3584
02:31:23,200 --> 02:31:27,520
lower and that granting is what brings

3585
02:31:24,960 --> 02:31:29,600
the entirety or the cost of the project

3586
02:31:27,520 --> 02:31:31,920
down, which then does impact those water

3587
02:31:29,600 --> 02:31:34,160
wastewater rates to make them look more

3588
02:31:31,920 --> 02:31:35,760
affordable. So, that's the best way out

3589
02:31:34,160 --> 02:31:37,600
of those three options that are listed

3590
02:31:35,760 --> 02:31:39,520
there. one of the best ways for us to

3591
02:31:37,600 --> 02:31:41,040
bring it down to make it uh more

3592
02:31:39,520 --> 02:31:43,600
affordable.

3593
02:31:41,040 --> 02:31:45,359
» Thank you. I I just wanted to try to get

3594
02:31:43,600 --> 02:31:47,920
more clarity on the question about

3595
02:31:45,359 --> 02:31:50,240
development charges because that I think

3596
02:31:47,920 --> 02:31:52,800
what um and I appreciate Shawn Michael's

3597
02:31:50,240 --> 02:31:55,200
answer. I think the information uh Shawn

3598
02:31:52,800 --> 02:31:57,760
Michael that you provided was a given um

3599
02:31:55,200 --> 02:32:02,720
that we have a responsibility for

3600
02:31:57,760 --> 02:32:06,240
affordable dwellings to um within the um

3601
02:32:02,720 --> 02:32:09,520
existing framework to provide uh support

3602
02:32:06,240 --> 02:32:12,319
for development charges. What I'm trying

3603
02:32:09,520 --> 02:32:15,840
to understand is if um affordable

3604
02:32:12,319 --> 02:32:18,960
components have been taken into account

3605
02:32:15,840 --> 02:32:20,720
in the financial strategy planning. So

3606
02:32:18,960 --> 02:32:26,000
presuming because I don't want to be in

3607
02:32:20,720 --> 02:32:28,960
a position to be um uh to have councils

3608
02:32:26,000 --> 02:32:32,399
of the future say well we can't afford

3609
02:32:28,960 --> 02:32:35,120
to encourage affordable dwellings

3610
02:32:32,399 --> 02:32:37,359
because we have to offer or you know

3611
02:32:35,120 --> 02:32:41,120
increases in affordable dwellings per

3612
02:32:37,359 --> 02:32:45,439
development or as a policy because we

3613
02:32:41,120 --> 02:32:47,439
have to uh be able to recoup our um

3614
02:32:45,439 --> 02:32:51,920
we've got to be able to maximize our

3615
02:32:47,439 --> 02:32:55,439
development charges. is received. So I I

3616
02:32:51,920 --> 02:32:59,920
worry that we would if it's not factored

3617
02:32:55,439 --> 02:33:04,640
in that it could become um dissuasive in

3618
02:32:59,920 --> 02:33:08,160
the future to to encourage maximizing

3619
02:33:04,640 --> 02:33:10,800
development charges or maximizing

3620
02:33:08,160 --> 02:33:14,319
um

3621
02:33:10,800 --> 02:33:17,200
are affordable um affordable components

3622
02:33:14,319 --> 02:33:18,640
that people are bringing uh potentially

3623
02:33:17,200 --> 02:33:21,280
willing to bring online in this

3624
02:33:18,640 --> 02:33:23,120
community. I don't know if that's

3625
02:33:21,280 --> 02:33:24,720
clearer.

3626
02:33:23,120 --> 02:33:25,760
» Um,

3627
02:33:24,720 --> 02:33:27,359
Mr. CEO,

3628
02:33:25,760 --> 02:33:28,560
» Thank you. Oh, maybe Sean Michael wants

3629
02:33:27,359 --> 02:33:30,319
» Sean Michael, do you want weigh in on

3630
02:33:28,560 --> 02:33:31,439
that for a second?

3631
02:33:30,319 --> 02:33:34,640
» Sure. Yeah, thank you for the

3632
02:33:31,439 --> 02:33:37,280
clarification. So, um,

3633
02:33:34,640 --> 02:33:39,040
so no, the additional financial impacts

3634
02:33:37,280 --> 02:33:40,399
of incentivizing affordable housing has

3635
02:33:39,040 --> 02:33:43,359
not been built into the financial

3636
02:33:40,399 --> 02:33:43,760
strategy at this time.

3637
02:33:43,359 --> 02:33:44,880
» Thank you.

3638
02:33:43,760 --> 02:33:45,439
» I appreciate that.

3639
02:33:44,880 --> 02:33:49,280
» Um,

3640
02:33:45,439 --> 02:33:50,880
» Clarity, councelor St. Jean.

3641
02:33:49,280 --> 02:33:52,880
Thank you, Mr. [clears throat] Chair.

3642
02:33:50,880 --> 02:33:55,439
Uh, I think we're we're all well aware

3643
02:33:52,880 --> 02:33:58,479
that there is no good scenario here. So,

3644
02:33:55,439 --> 02:34:01,280
I'm not even going to dwell on that. Uh

3645
02:33:58,479 --> 02:34:04,560
these are big numbers and we keep

3646
02:34:01,280 --> 02:34:07,280
talking about uh the impact the impact

3647
02:34:04,560 --> 02:34:09,359
or potential impact of growth

3648
02:34:07,280 --> 02:34:12,160
and we all know that zero growth is not

3649
02:34:09,359 --> 02:34:13,920
an option either because our current

3650
02:34:12,160 --> 02:34:16,880
rateayers are going to have to pay

3651
02:34:13,920 --> 02:34:19,920
through the nose to replace equipment

3652
02:34:16,880 --> 02:34:23,200
infrastructure that we have not set

3653
02:34:19,920 --> 02:34:26,560
enough money aside for that we have not

3654
02:34:23,200 --> 02:34:29,040
prepared for. Uh, and when we look at

3655
02:34:26,560 --> 02:34:30,560
those numbers in this financial plan,

3656
02:34:29,040 --> 02:34:33,520
that's all it is. It's not a commitment

3657
02:34:30,560 --> 02:34:35,359
to uh to to spending any money at this

3658
02:34:33,520 --> 02:34:37,520
point, it's about getting the

3659
02:34:35,359 --> 02:34:41,280
information. But there's what, $108

3660
02:34:37,520 --> 02:34:43,520
million that is our share. How the heck

3661
02:34:41,280 --> 02:34:45,200
are we going to pay for that if we don't

3662
02:34:43,520 --> 02:34:48,319
have a plan to try to figure out how

3663
02:34:45,200 --> 02:34:52,560
we're going to play pay for it?

3664
02:34:48,319 --> 02:34:55,280
As the director stated that uh uh zero

3665
02:34:52,560 --> 02:34:58,399
dollars. So now I'm hoping that

3666
02:34:55,280 --> 02:35:00,399
reassures councelor panel. Zero dollars

3667
02:34:58,399 --> 02:35:04,240
are being recommended to be spent, but

3668
02:35:00,399 --> 02:35:08,800
it's identifying the needs and a

3669
02:35:04,240 --> 02:35:11,200
potential way forward. And I0%

3670
02:35:08,800 --> 02:35:13,920
agree developers need to pay money

3671
02:35:11,200 --> 02:35:16,800
upfront. I have never said anything any

3672
02:35:13,920 --> 02:35:20,240
different. They they need to show up

3673
02:35:16,800 --> 02:35:22,720
with a check. how that gets sorted out,

3674
02:35:20,240 --> 02:35:25,520
whether it's, you know, certainly the

3675
02:35:22,720 --> 02:35:26,720
the building permit stage is not

3676
02:35:25,520 --> 02:35:28,240
working. Doesn't work for any

3677
02:35:26,720 --> 02:35:29,680
municipality and it's not going to work

3678
02:35:28,240 --> 02:35:32,319
for us. So, we need to change that

3679
02:35:29,680 --> 02:35:34,720
system. But you, if we don't pass the

3680
02:35:32,319 --> 02:35:36,720
these motions, you're not going to have

3681
02:35:34,720 --> 02:35:38,399
the conversation with the developers.

3682
02:35:36,720 --> 02:35:41,040
We're not going to find out if they are

3683
02:35:38,399 --> 02:35:42,399
willing to step up to the plate. If

3684
02:35:41,040 --> 02:35:44,720
they're not willing to step up to the

3685
02:35:42,399 --> 02:35:46,720
plate, then bye-bye.

3686
02:35:44,720 --> 02:35:50,080
And then we have to figure this all out

3687
02:35:46,720 --> 02:35:51,680
all over again. But right now, what I'm

3688
02:35:50,080 --> 02:35:55,200
seeing, and I'm going to thank all of

3689
02:35:51,680 --> 02:35:58,160
the staff for for bringing all of this

3690
02:35:55,200 --> 02:36:01,200
together, being totally, brutally honest

3691
02:35:58,160 --> 02:36:03,680
with us and the community,

3692
02:36:01,200 --> 02:36:05,439
that we're in a mess and this is a

3693
02:36:03,680 --> 02:36:06,800
possible way out. But if you don't ask

3694
02:36:05,439 --> 02:36:09,840
the questions and you don't follow

3695
02:36:06,800 --> 02:36:13,200
through on what's being suggested, we'll

3696
02:36:09,840 --> 02:36:16,880
never know and we will end up with a

3697
02:36:13,200 --> 02:36:19,600
debacle like the Pictton uh sewage

3698
02:36:16,880 --> 02:36:21,439
treatment plant which ended up costing

3699
02:36:19,600 --> 02:36:24,000
this municipality, if I remember the

3700
02:36:21,439 --> 02:36:27,600
numbers, in excess of $5 million

3701
02:36:24,000 --> 02:36:29,600
additional because we lost grants.

3702
02:36:27,600 --> 02:36:32,000
I don't ever want to see this community

3703
02:36:29,600 --> 02:36:35,120
ever go through that again. though when

3704
02:36:32,000 --> 02:36:36,960
I see these motions I go let's keep

3705
02:36:35,120 --> 02:36:39,920
moving forward let's keep getting more

3706
02:36:36,960 --> 02:36:42,720
information let's do the right thing and

3707
02:36:39,920 --> 02:36:44,960
plan for the future sticking our heads

3708
02:36:42,720 --> 02:36:48,080
in the sand is not an option and saying

3709
02:36:44,960 --> 02:36:49,520
oh no no no I don't like this I we we

3710
02:36:48,080 --> 02:36:52,720
need to get more data we need to get

3711
02:36:49,520 --> 02:36:56,560
more information and and and just move

3712
02:36:52,720 --> 02:37:01,280
forward be open-minded as to what we can

3713
02:36:56,560 --> 02:37:03,439
do possibly so I and There are so many

3714
02:37:01,280 --> 02:37:05,920
other potential issues like the impact

3715
02:37:03,439 --> 02:37:07,680
on affordable housing opportunities. If

3716
02:37:05,920 --> 02:37:09,280
if you don't move forward, we'll get

3717
02:37:07,680 --> 02:37:11,520
none of that. You know, there's so many

3718
02:37:09,280 --> 02:37:13,280
pieces to this puzzle, but we won't know

3719
02:37:11,520 --> 02:37:16,640
the answers. We won't be able to put the

3720
02:37:13,280 --> 02:37:18,800
pieces together until we allow staff to

3721
02:37:16,640 --> 02:37:21,680
continue doing the work that they are

3722
02:37:18,800 --> 02:37:22,640
asking us to allow them to do. So,

3723
02:37:21,680 --> 02:37:24,640
» Councelor H.

3724
02:37:22,640 --> 02:37:27,280
» Thank you.

3725
02:37:24,640 --> 02:37:29,040
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, just to

3726
02:37:27,280 --> 02:37:30,880
confirm with staff and councelor St.

3727
02:37:29,040 --> 02:37:33,520
Gene mentioned it, but I just like this

3728
02:37:30,880 --> 02:37:36,240
to be confirmed for the record. The do

3729
02:37:33,520 --> 02:37:38,319
nothing option, if we don't proceed with

3730
02:37:36,240 --> 02:37:40,960
any of this, the do nothing option

3731
02:37:38,319 --> 02:37:44,000
increases rates to the rateayers even

3732
02:37:40,960 --> 02:37:47,200
more than option 2B. And that's a yes

3733
02:37:44,000 --> 02:37:49,600
from staff. So that's why that's

3734
02:37:47,200 --> 02:37:52,160
absolutely not an option as as councelor

3735
02:37:49,600 --> 02:37:53,840
S. Gene said. Uh second point I want to

3736
02:37:52,160 --> 02:37:55,840
make can make three points.

3737
02:37:53,840 --> 02:37:57,840
Phil,

3738
02:37:55,840 --> 02:38:01,760
um the suggestion that no growth is

3739
02:37:57,840 --> 02:38:04,880
happening is is nonsensical. Uh base 31

3740
02:38:01,760 --> 02:38:08,880
is selling homes starting next month.

3741
02:38:04,880 --> 02:38:12,240
They told us um last week uh about the

3742
02:38:08,880 --> 02:38:14,160
timing for um the Hilltop Village and

3743
02:38:12,240 --> 02:38:17,040
for the apartment building and those are

3744
02:38:14,160 --> 02:38:18,720
hundreds and hundreds of units and uh

3745
02:38:17,040 --> 02:38:21,600
that's not fiction. That's actually

3746
02:38:18,720 --> 02:38:23,120
happening. Port Pikton is building homes

3747
02:38:21,600 --> 02:38:24,720
as we speak in the Cold Creek

3748
02:38:23,120 --> 02:38:27,439
subdivision.

3749
02:38:24,720 --> 02:38:29,200
So growth is happening, folks. Uh

3750
02:38:27,439 --> 02:38:31,280
Caitlyn's waiting for us to finally

3751
02:38:29,200 --> 02:38:35,280
finish getting the pipes ready for them

3752
02:38:31,280 --> 02:38:37,439
so they can start. So looking at past

3753
02:38:35,280 --> 02:38:40,720
records of building permits has nothing

3754
02:38:37,439 --> 02:38:43,840
to do with what uh what growth is

3755
02:38:40,720 --> 02:38:45,760
expected. The third point and again

3756
02:38:43,840 --> 02:38:47,280
councelor St. Gene mentioned this. If we

3757
02:38:45,760 --> 02:38:50,479
don't have a road map, if we don't have

3758
02:38:47,280 --> 02:38:52,240
a plan in place, the developers are not

3759
02:38:50,479 --> 02:38:54,000
going to be interested in any kind of a

3760
02:38:52,240 --> 02:38:58,000
conversation. They need to know that

3761
02:38:54,000 --> 02:39:00,160
we're we have a plan at least to proceed

3762
02:38:58,000 --> 02:39:02,479
with providing the services that they

3763
02:39:00,160 --> 02:39:06,880
require for their expansions for their

3764
02:39:02,479 --> 02:39:09,600
for their projects. So not approving

3765
02:39:06,880 --> 02:39:11,680
this roadmap gives us nothing to talk to

3766
02:39:09,600 --> 02:39:14,160
them about and leaves us with the do

3767
02:39:11,680 --> 02:39:16,720
nothing option which will cost rateayers

3768
02:39:14,160 --> 02:39:19,280
more and none of us want to cost the

3769
02:39:16,720 --> 02:39:20,479
rateayers more so it's why I fully

3770
02:39:19,280 --> 02:39:23,439
support this. Thank you

3771
02:39:20,479 --> 02:39:28,240
» Councelor Mayard.

3772
02:39:23,439 --> 02:39:30,399
» Um thank you. I well we have to consider

3773
02:39:28,240 --> 02:39:32,720
the times we're that that we are in. I

3774
02:39:30,399 --> 02:39:34,560
mean what we started like we didn't when

3775
02:39:32,720 --> 02:39:36,479
we started writing these reports we had

3776
02:39:34,560 --> 02:39:38,880
no idea what was going to be happening

3777
02:39:36,479 --> 02:39:41,439
and there is just so much uncertainty

3778
02:39:38,880 --> 02:39:44,160
right now like who knows right they're

3779
02:39:41,439 --> 02:39:46,640
not like the who knows what might happen

3780
02:39:44,160 --> 02:39:48,319
to the markets people are going to be

3781
02:39:46,640 --> 02:39:49,520
you know without a job so they're not

3782
02:39:48,319 --> 02:39:52,319
going to be buying a house like I mean

3783
02:39:49,520 --> 02:39:54,960
we this could be we could be in some you

3784
02:39:52,319 --> 02:39:58,080
know critically serious times and I was

3785
02:39:54,960 --> 02:40:00,080
never um you know unless you can get a

3786
02:39:58,080 --> 02:40:02,000
lot of money up front unless this is

3787
02:40:00,080 --> 02:40:04,479
pre-inanced from those that are going to

3788
02:40:02,000 --> 02:40:07,120
benefit from it

3789
02:40:04,479 --> 02:40:10,080
except for I will say and and this is

3790
02:40:07,120 --> 02:40:13,040
not to be this is not uh because I mean

3791
02:40:10,080 --> 02:40:14,880
it's done it's done but

3792
02:40:13,040 --> 02:40:16,960
obviously the rates in Pikton were never

3793
02:40:14,880 --> 02:40:19,680
high enough to uh to set some money

3794
02:40:16,960 --> 02:40:22,640
aside for their because I don't know how

3795
02:40:19,680 --> 02:40:25,120
old's that plant 70 80 70 years old

3796
02:40:22,640 --> 02:40:28,080
something like that so you know so there

3797
02:40:25,120 --> 02:40:30,399
has been was there ever a reserve fund

3798
02:40:28,080 --> 02:40:32,800
for for that replacement or was it just

3799
02:40:30,399 --> 02:40:34,960
to fix things up? Because that's what we

3800
02:40:32,800 --> 02:40:37,200
had to do, right? And and we didn't

3801
02:40:34,960 --> 02:40:39,280
those people, they didn't get they

3802
02:40:37,200 --> 02:40:40,640
didn't get their money from the county

3803
02:40:39,280 --> 02:40:42,640
that they weren't the ones that were

3804
02:40:40,640 --> 02:40:44,399
lending them this money or fronting this

3805
02:40:42,640 --> 02:40:46,080
money. They had to go get it from the,

3806
02:40:44,399 --> 02:40:49,920
you know, from a bank or a lender or

3807
02:40:46,080 --> 02:40:52,880
whatever. So I just cannot I I can't I

3808
02:40:49,920 --> 02:40:55,359
can't support this first because I think

3809
02:40:52,880 --> 02:40:56,960
we are in times that are way too

3810
02:40:55,359 --> 02:41:00,880
uncertain

3811
02:40:56,960 --> 02:41:04,479
and I really think that u areas like

3812
02:41:00,880 --> 02:41:08,000
ours will will feel the crunch um likely

3813
02:41:04,479 --> 02:41:10,640
harder and sooner than others just

3814
02:41:08,000 --> 02:41:16,960
because of our u you know of our economy

3815
02:41:10,640 --> 02:41:20,960
and our age and I just and um so

3816
02:41:16,960 --> 02:41:22,640
So, $108 million in Pikton

3817
02:41:20,960 --> 02:41:24,399
and we know that that plant has to be

3818
02:41:22,640 --> 02:41:28,160
replaced. So, if there's no growth,

3819
02:41:24,399 --> 02:41:29,439
where is $108 million coming from?

3820
02:41:28,160 --> 02:41:32,080
» That's a very good question.

3821
02:41:29,439 --> 02:41:34,800
» Okay, let's

3822
02:41:32,080 --> 02:41:37,280
I think we just need to uh I mean, we we

3823
02:41:34,800 --> 02:41:38,960
can pick a way and keep it going, but I

3824
02:41:37,280 --> 02:41:41,200
do not think this is the time to jump

3825
02:41:38,960 --> 02:41:43,680
off of this cliff in these uncertain

3826
02:41:41,200 --> 02:41:47,359
times and put a whole bunch of people at

3827
02:41:43,680 --> 02:41:50,800
risk. I will not support

3828
02:41:47,359 --> 02:41:53,680
my my water users

3829
02:41:50,800 --> 02:41:54,319
having to uh you know

3830
02:41:53,680 --> 02:41:57,680
» Okay

3831
02:41:54,319 --> 02:41:59,120
» I I can't and and you know we haven't

3832
02:41:57,680 --> 02:42:01,600
seen a room full of people from in

3833
02:41:59,120 --> 02:42:04,080
Millionsburg in a long time but this is

3834
02:42:01,600 --> 02:42:06,640
this is not what this is going to do is

3835
02:42:04,080 --> 02:42:12,040
is not fair and it I don't think it's

3836
02:42:06,640 --> 02:42:12,040
logical at this time. Councelor Nyman.

3837
02:42:12,560 --> 02:42:16,720
» That's Councelor Nyman.

3838
02:42:14,160 --> 02:42:18,319
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. So,

3839
02:42:16,720 --> 02:42:19,120
» Sorry, Don. You're next. I forgot about

3840
02:42:18,319 --> 02:42:19,920
you standing there.

3841
02:42:19,120 --> 02:42:21,840
» You want me to wait?

3842
02:42:19,920 --> 02:42:23,040
» No, go ahead. Cuz he you might be a he

3843
02:42:21,840 --> 02:42:24,479
might be able to answer your question,

3844
02:42:23,040 --> 02:42:26,720
too. Let's try and keep it to questions.

3845
02:42:24,479 --> 02:42:29,359
We're kind of getting into stuff. We're

3846
02:42:26,720 --> 02:42:31,520
getting long. We got to uh keep it to

3847
02:42:29,359 --> 02:42:33,200
questions to get clarity before we're

3848
02:42:31,520 --> 02:42:34,720
going to call the vote, okay?

3849
02:42:33,200 --> 02:42:36,960
» Instead of giving our opinions and

3850
02:42:34,720 --> 02:42:39,040
trying to persuade everybody else. So,

3851
02:42:36,960 --> 02:42:39,600
» No. No. Wells. That's what I'm asking.

3852
02:42:39,040 --> 02:42:40,479
Thank you.

3853
02:42:39,600 --> 02:42:41,840
» I guess I could ask.

3854
02:42:40,479 --> 02:42:43,040
» No, Janice.

3855
02:42:41,840 --> 02:42:44,399
» Okay.

3856
02:42:43,040 --> 02:42:48,000
» Councelor Nyman.

3857
02:42:44,399 --> 02:42:49,920
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, uh, people are

3858
02:42:48,000 --> 02:42:52,399
having a hard time paying their water

3859
02:42:49,920 --> 02:42:55,359
wastewater bill now and and so we're

3860
02:42:52,399 --> 02:42:58,800
having it go up another $900.

3861
02:42:55,359 --> 02:43:00,800
You know, their their wages are not

3862
02:42:58,800 --> 02:43:04,080
going to go up because a lot of them are

3863
02:43:00,800 --> 02:43:06,880
working um part-time jobs because we

3864
02:43:04,080 --> 02:43:09,280
don't have full-time jobs here. But what

3865
02:43:06,880 --> 02:43:12,640
what I want to ask I want to go to the

3866
02:43:09,280 --> 02:43:15,600
uh and it's on page 10 of your uh slide

3867
02:43:12,640 --> 02:43:19,200
deck and I believe I think it was page

3868
02:43:15,600 --> 02:43:21,520
10 but it wasif 15% of the county debt

3869
02:43:19,200 --> 02:43:26,240
that's the county debt policy is 15% of

3870
02:43:21,520 --> 02:43:28,880
our own revenues 25% of the provincial

3871
02:43:26,240 --> 02:43:31,600
uh threshold that's statutory. So we we

3872
02:43:28,880 --> 02:43:33,520
hit the 25 they're going to step in

3873
02:43:31,600 --> 02:43:36,160
basically.

3874
02:43:33,520 --> 02:43:37,600
So, and what we're looking at, uh, and I

3875
02:43:36,160 --> 02:43:41,240
don't have it written down, but I think

3876
02:43:37,600 --> 02:43:41,240
I seen 17.7%.

3877
02:43:41,600 --> 02:43:50,560
» 4. Okay. So, my my question is now,

3878
02:43:47,600 --> 02:43:54,640
we've set a policy for 15

3879
02:43:50,560 --> 02:43:57,840
statutory 25. We're two% 2 and a half%

3880
02:43:54,640 --> 02:44:00,560
over our own policy, and that's just for

3881
02:43:57,840 --> 02:44:02,479
this. So

3882
02:44:00,560 --> 02:44:06,319
if we have to go in debt on something

3883
02:44:02,479 --> 02:44:09,680
else for roads or anything else,

3884
02:44:06,319 --> 02:44:11,120
we're not going to do that. Uh so what's

3885
02:44:09,680 --> 02:44:13,439
going to suffer and how are we going to

3886
02:44:11,120 --> 02:44:15,040
cover that? Because that's a

3887
02:44:13,439 --> 02:44:17,040
» That's a that's a pure finance question

3888
02:44:15,040 --> 02:44:17,680
for you, Director McNug. I can see you

3889
02:44:17,040 --> 02:44:19,680
smiling.

3890
02:44:17,680 --> 02:44:22,800
» Yeah, through the chair to councelor

3891
02:44:19,680 --> 02:44:24,399
Nyman. Um absolutely it is over our 15%

3892
02:44:22,800 --> 02:44:26,800
threshold for a number of years and I

3893
02:44:24,399 --> 02:44:29,279
think that in part is a risk and the

3894
02:44:26,800 --> 02:44:31,760
other is that the debt is corporatewide.

3895
02:44:29,279 --> 02:44:34,800
Um so it does have an effect on debt we

3896
02:44:31,760 --> 02:44:37,279
want to take out for roads uh uh

3897
02:44:34,800 --> 02:44:39,120
facilities any of the other debts. So I

3898
02:44:37,279 --> 02:44:41,040
think uh the way to mitigate that risk

3899
02:44:39,120 --> 02:44:44,319
as identified in the report is to get

3900
02:44:41,040 --> 02:44:48,000
upfront financing uh reducing us below

3901
02:44:44,319 --> 02:44:50,640
the 15% threshold and dependent on how

3902
02:44:48,000 --> 02:44:55,359
much we get in frontend financing giving

3903
02:44:50,640 --> 02:44:58,240
us enough leeway uh to um to get debt uh

3904
02:44:55,359 --> 02:45:00,080
for other service areas. And I think one

3905
02:44:58,240 --> 02:45:03,359
other thing uh to mention is as

3906
02:45:00,080 --> 02:45:06,720
development occurs um we get more

3907
02:45:03,359 --> 02:45:10,240
taxation revenue in um on the new homes

3908
02:45:06,720 --> 02:45:11,920
that is uh additional revenue that we

3909
02:45:10,240 --> 02:45:14,399
have for the different service areas

3910
02:45:11,920 --> 02:45:17,200
that we can budget for. So uh to your

3911
02:45:14,399 --> 02:45:20,160
first point about the um the the debt

3912
02:45:17,200 --> 02:45:23,040
ceiling um the intent is to leave it at

3913
02:45:20,160 --> 02:45:25,279
15%. Um we're not requesting council

3914
02:45:23,040 --> 02:45:27,760
increase that threshold above 15%. the

3915
02:45:25,279 --> 02:45:30,479
guard rail still remains. We go

3916
02:45:27,760 --> 02:45:33,840
negotiate with developers, get as much

3917
02:45:30,479 --> 02:45:35,520
as we can um to reduce that to still

3918
02:45:33,840 --> 02:45:37,760
give us the flexibility to go out and

3919
02:45:35,520 --> 02:45:39,359
get debt for other service areas and at

3920
02:45:37,760 --> 02:45:41,279
the same time as development occurs, we

3921
02:45:39,359 --> 02:45:44,160
get additional taxation revenue that can

3922
02:45:41,279 --> 02:45:46,319
be spread to the other service areas.

3923
02:45:44,160 --> 02:45:48,720
» Quick followup for clarity. Yeah.

3924
02:45:46,319 --> 02:45:51,920
» So if we don't get that upfront

3925
02:45:48,720 --> 02:45:54,560
financing and we go to 17 and a half%

3926
02:45:51,920 --> 02:45:57,040
that's what it is, 17.4, before, you

3927
02:45:54,560 --> 02:45:59,600
know, something's going to suffer. So,

3928
02:45:57,040 --> 02:46:01,680
what's suffering? Because that's what I

3929
02:45:59,600 --> 02:46:03,920
want to know. I'm just not prepared to

3930
02:46:01,680 --> 02:46:06,800
go that way.

3931
02:46:03,920 --> 02:46:08,880
» Okay. Do you have a followup

3932
02:46:06,800 --> 02:46:10,399
» Or just go ahead

3933
02:46:08,880 --> 02:46:12,960
» Through the through the chair? And yeah,

3934
02:46:10,399 --> 02:46:14,880
and that's that's I think the reason why

3935
02:46:12,960 --> 02:46:17,760
um we're recommending to council the

3936
02:46:14,880 --> 02:46:20,720
ability to go and u find out how much

3937
02:46:17,760 --> 02:46:22,880
money we can get um look at look at the

3938
02:46:20,720 --> 02:46:24,720
rates associated with the lenders, pull

3939
02:46:22,880 --> 02:46:27,200
together the information to determine

3940
02:46:24,720 --> 02:46:29,120
whether or not this is is possible and

3941
02:46:27,200 --> 02:46:31,040
then bring it back to council and then

3942
02:46:29,120 --> 02:46:33,439
council would would make a decision as

3943
02:46:31,040 --> 02:46:35,120
you council says well maybe you know

3944
02:46:33,439 --> 02:46:36,399
there there isn't enough to for

3945
02:46:35,120 --> 02:46:37,920
different service areas so we don't want

3946
02:46:36,399 --> 02:46:39,520
to go through with this we need more

3947
02:46:37,920 --> 02:46:41,359
upfront financing maybe there will be

3948
02:46:39,520 --> 02:46:42,880
grants at that stage of the game, but

3949
02:46:41,359 --> 02:46:45,439
certainly we would bring back that to

3950
02:46:42,880 --> 02:46:46,800
council and negotiate with the different

3951
02:46:45,439 --> 02:46:48,560
developers to see how much money we

3952
02:46:46,800 --> 02:46:50,319
could we could bring in to decrease that

3953
02:46:48,560 --> 02:46:53,359
to something palatable.

3954
02:46:50,319 --> 02:46:53,760
» Thank you, Erin. Don, welcome. Nice to

3955
02:46:53,359 --> 02:46:55,200
have you.

3956
02:46:53,760 --> 02:46:57,920
» Thanks. Yeah, thanks for the [snorts]

3957
02:46:55,200 --> 02:46:59,359
opportunity to speak. I I sat through uh

3958
02:46:57,920 --> 02:47:00,880
hearing all the conversation today. I

3959
02:46:59,359 --> 02:47:02,640
sat through an internal audit yesterday

3960
02:47:00,880 --> 02:47:04,399
for our drinking water quality

3961
02:47:02,640 --> 02:47:06,640
management system and it you know part

3962
02:47:04,399 --> 02:47:09,439
of uh that conversation sitting with the

3963
02:47:06,640 --> 02:47:11,200
auditor was uh kind of quickly going

3964
02:47:09,439 --> 02:47:14,000
over what I'm supposed to share with

3965
02:47:11,200 --> 02:47:15,439
council in terms of risk and and uh

3966
02:47:14,000 --> 02:47:17,120
things that go along with that and

3967
02:47:15,439 --> 02:47:19,200
hearing this conversation and I'm not

3968
02:47:17,120 --> 02:47:21,120
here to sell on a scenario. Uh I have

3969
02:47:19,200 --> 02:47:22,560
the utmost faith in the team that and

3970
02:47:21,120 --> 02:47:25,279
the engineers and everybody outside

3971
02:47:22,560 --> 02:47:26,960
that's narrowed us down to that 2B. But

3972
02:47:25,279 --> 02:47:29,520
I I want to just maybe touch a little

3973
02:47:26,960 --> 02:47:31,040
bit on the do nothing option. Um work

3974
02:47:29,520 --> 02:47:34,080
backwards a little bit just in case

3975
02:47:31,040 --> 02:47:35,600
anyone had any questions. Um we know

3976
02:47:34,080 --> 02:47:37,439
through condition assessment we have a

3977
02:47:35,600 --> 02:47:39,600
picked and water plant that as max 10

3978
02:47:37,439 --> 02:47:42,080
years left. We know we still have some

3979
02:47:39,600 --> 02:47:43,680
capacity left in it. We know there are

3980
02:47:42,080 --> 02:47:46,640
parts of that plant are like 100 years

3981
02:47:43,680 --> 02:47:48,880
old and we don't fully know if how well

3982
02:47:46,640 --> 02:47:50,479
the structure is going to last. We're

3983
02:47:48,880 --> 02:47:53,760
going to put more strain on that same

3984
02:47:50,479 --> 02:47:54,800
plant as we add the remaining growth. I

3985
02:47:53,760 --> 02:47:56,560
don't know how many units you guys

3986
02:47:54,800 --> 02:47:59,439
probably know it's like a thousand units

3987
02:47:56,560 --> 02:48:01,120
left or something. Um that probably

3988
02:47:59,439 --> 02:48:02,479
falls into the developments that we and

3989
02:48:01,120 --> 02:48:05,359
developers that we have left around

3990
02:48:02,479 --> 02:48:07,600
here. We know that historically we've

3991
02:48:05,359 --> 02:48:09,840
had situations where we've had spills in

3992
02:48:07,600 --> 02:48:12,560
our bay. Uh it's a very vulnerable

3993
02:48:09,840 --> 02:48:14,880
intake. Uh even more threats now than we

3994
02:48:12,560 --> 02:48:17,120
had before. Uh somewhere around 300

3995
02:48:14,880 --> 02:48:20,160
threats. It's one of the most threatened

3996
02:48:17,120 --> 02:48:23,600
intakes and source sources of water uh

3997
02:48:20,160 --> 02:48:27,200
for a treatment plant in in Ontario.

3998
02:48:23,600 --> 02:48:28,960
We know these things. So if we have a 10

3999
02:48:27,200 --> 02:48:31,200
a 10-year clock and we have to count

4000
02:48:28,960 --> 02:48:32,800
that backwards just from a standard of

4001
02:48:31,200 --> 02:48:34,160
care perspective, council and anybody

4002
02:48:32,800 --> 02:48:35,760
who's been through the training know

4003
02:48:34,160 --> 02:48:39,200
that we have certain responsibilities

4004
02:48:35,760 --> 02:48:40,640
for planning for these risks. Um I just

4005
02:48:39,200 --> 02:48:43,680
wanted to make sure that you know

4006
02:48:40,640 --> 02:48:45,520
everyone's aware of that. Um at some

4007
02:48:43,680 --> 02:48:48,160
point we have to make a decision. It's

4008
02:48:45,520 --> 02:48:50,640
not going to be an easy decision. Uh I I

4009
02:48:48,160 --> 02:48:52,560
bear a lot of uh uh communication with

4010
02:48:50,640 --> 02:48:55,600
people about rates and rate studies.

4011
02:48:52,560 --> 02:48:57,680
Yes, we have some high rates. Sadly, we

4012
02:48:55,600 --> 02:49:00,479
have just over 5,200 customers that are

4013
02:48:57,680 --> 02:49:03,600
paying for our water systems. Um, yeah,

4014
02:49:00,479 --> 02:49:05,760
there is a chance that growth uh may not

4015
02:49:03,600 --> 02:49:07,760
uh give us the units that we that you

4016
02:49:05,760 --> 02:49:09,279
know, whatever that outcome could be,

4017
02:49:07,760 --> 02:49:11,040
but the more people we have paying on

4018
02:49:09,279 --> 02:49:14,880
the system, the more it's going to share

4019
02:49:11,040 --> 02:49:17,200
out those costs. Um, so I just, you

4020
02:49:14,880 --> 02:49:18,960
know, quickly wanted to highlight that,

4021
02:49:17,200 --> 02:49:20,720
you know, and as you add the remaining

4022
02:49:18,960 --> 02:49:22,880
units to that plant, it's like having an

4023
02:49:20,720 --> 02:49:25,200
old car. You know, more stuff's going to

4024
02:49:22,880 --> 02:49:26,640
go wrong. We have more risks. It was a

4025
02:49:25,200 --> 02:49:28,640
few months ago, we had another spill in

4026
02:49:26,640 --> 02:49:31,279
Delhigh and it almost shut our plant

4027
02:49:28,640 --> 02:49:33,120
down again. You know, these things could

4028
02:49:31,279 --> 02:49:35,040
happen. And through the most recent

4029
02:49:33,120 --> 02:49:36,960
source water protection work, um there's

4030
02:49:35,040 --> 02:49:38,560
something now we know there are other

4031
02:49:36,960 --> 02:49:40,960
contaminants that are making their way

4032
02:49:38,560 --> 02:49:42,319
to to where our intake is and we're

4033
02:49:40,960 --> 02:49:44,319
going to have more stringent sampling

4034
02:49:42,319 --> 02:49:45,600
that goes along with that. Uh we don't

4035
02:49:44,319 --> 02:49:48,800
know exactly what that's going to be yet

4036
02:49:45,600 --> 02:49:50,479
or what that's going to show, but I'm

4037
02:49:48,800 --> 02:49:52,160
sure the province is expecting that

4038
02:49:50,479 --> 02:49:53,600
we're going to have plans and under our

4039
02:49:52,160 --> 02:49:55,680
legislative responsibilities, we're

4040
02:49:53,600 --> 02:49:57,439
going to have to be able to uh deal with

4041
02:49:55,680 --> 02:49:59,680
these things. So, you know, we have a

4042
02:49:57,439 --> 02:50:02,800
clock. I understand if uh you know none

4043
02:49:59,680 --> 02:50:04,960
of the scenarios are great but um you

4044
02:50:02,800 --> 02:50:07,120
know under our responsibilities uh you

4045
02:50:04,960 --> 02:50:09,439
know as owners of the system we we are

4046
02:50:07,120 --> 02:50:11,120
going to have to do something and um I I

4047
02:50:09,439 --> 02:50:12,640
I wouldn't be fulfilling my

4048
02:50:11,120 --> 02:50:15,520
responsibilities if I didn't come and

4049
02:50:12,640 --> 02:50:17,680
share that if if stuff does happen u

4050
02:50:15,520 --> 02:50:18,960
because we're running something old I

4051
02:50:17,680 --> 02:50:21,520
don't think the province can be very

4052
02:50:18,960 --> 02:50:23,760
favorable on us for for not making some

4053
02:50:21,520 --> 02:50:25,439
decisions and my understanding of what's

4054
02:50:23,760 --> 02:50:28,319
being brought forward today is that

4055
02:50:25,439 --> 02:50:30,399
we're not making decisions We're trying

4056
02:50:28,319 --> 02:50:33,520
to figure out how to finance an option

4057
02:50:30,399 --> 02:50:36,080
that seems to be the the best out of the

4058
02:50:33,520 --> 02:50:36,800
options. So, I just I just want an

4059
02:50:36,080 --> 02:50:38,640
option to

4060
02:50:36,800 --> 02:50:40,240
» Thanks. Thanks, Don. Council Engles

4061
02:50:38,640 --> 02:50:41,359
Dorfer.

4062
02:50:40,240 --> 02:50:44,800
» Yeah, [clears throat] two questions. Uh

4063
02:50:41,359 --> 02:50:47,279
the first one, uh the word endorse, this

4064
02:50:44,800 --> 02:50:50,000
is probably to the CEO. What does that

4065
02:50:47,279 --> 02:50:51,439
do to the municipality in terms of a

4066
02:50:50,000 --> 02:50:53,120
legal standpoint? Does it give the

4067
02:50:51,439 --> 02:50:55,359
development community leverage if we end

4068
02:50:53,120 --> 02:50:57,600
up changing course? because as we've

4069
02:50:55,359 --> 02:50:58,960
seen in the past on other files, I think

4070
02:50:57,600 --> 02:51:01,960
wording like that becomes very

4071
02:50:58,960 --> 02:51:01,960
important.

4072
02:51:02,000 --> 02:51:05,359
» CEO,

4073
02:51:02,560 --> 02:51:07,520
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um on off the top

4074
02:51:05,359 --> 02:51:09,439
of my head, I don't think so. Uh I I

4075
02:51:07,520 --> 02:51:11,520
think that uh council endorsing a

4076
02:51:09,439 --> 02:51:12,960
scenario um actually might give the

4077
02:51:11,520 --> 02:51:14,960
development community a bit of level of

4078
02:51:12,960 --> 02:51:17,279
comfort that we council is decisive in

4079
02:51:14,960 --> 02:51:20,479
this matter and that we have a plan, but

4080
02:51:17,279 --> 02:51:22,240
future council can unravel uh even this

4081
02:51:20,479 --> 02:51:24,319
council could unravel any any of these

4082
02:51:22,240 --> 02:51:27,040
decisions that you make. Um, so it's not

4083
02:51:24,319 --> 02:51:28,399
locking you into anything, but we to me

4084
02:51:27,040 --> 02:51:30,399
it signals that council is being

4085
02:51:28,399 --> 02:51:31,040
decisive on a on a path forward. Okay.

4086
02:51:30,399 --> 02:51:32,800
» At this time,

4087
02:51:31,040 --> 02:51:35,359
» My worry is we've tried to unravel other

4088
02:51:32,800 --> 02:51:37,920
things and it hasn't gone so well. Um,

4089
02:51:35,359 --> 02:51:40,080
so there's that. And then the other one,

4090
02:51:37,920 --> 02:51:42,160
do you not already have what you need to

4091
02:51:40,080 --> 02:51:44,160
go forward? We already passed a motion

4092
02:51:42,160 --> 02:51:45,760
in June. It's the exact same wording

4093
02:51:44,160 --> 02:51:47,439
that's in clause 4 to go talk to the

4094
02:51:45,760 --> 02:51:49,600
development community. Now you have the

4095
02:51:47,439 --> 02:51:51,840
numbers you need. Why do we have to pass

4096
02:51:49,600 --> 02:51:55,439
anything today? And that would be a

4097
02:51:51,840 --> 02:51:58,399
question to the CEO too I believe.

4098
02:51:55,439 --> 02:52:00,160
» Sure. Uh as Dr. McNichol has mentioned

4099
02:51:58,399 --> 02:52:01,840
um these the work that's been done

4100
02:52:00,160 --> 02:52:04,080
leading up to today is in are inputs

4101
02:52:01,840 --> 02:52:05,600
into other studies and and some of these

4102
02:52:04,080 --> 02:52:07,920
are I think are pretty important for us

4103
02:52:05,600 --> 02:52:09,760
to get moving on and if this gets you

4104
02:52:07,920 --> 02:52:11,359
know if we are only let's say directed

4105
02:52:09,760 --> 02:52:12,800
to you know pursue th those

4106
02:52:11,359 --> 02:52:14,560
conversations with the detail we have

4107
02:52:12,800 --> 02:52:16,240
today. I recognize that we did ask for

4108
02:52:14,560 --> 02:52:18,160
that. We had preliminary conversations

4109
02:52:16,240 --> 02:52:19,439
as director Lansstra said, but we could,

4110
02:52:18,160 --> 02:52:20,720
you know, if we if we just come out of

4111
02:52:19,439 --> 02:52:22,319
here today with that direction to go to

4112
02:52:20,720 --> 02:52:23,840
the developers and find out whether as

4113
02:52:22,319 --> 02:52:26,560
you say they they've got skin in the

4114
02:52:23,840 --> 02:52:29,439
game, that that's that's okay. Um, but I

4115
02:52:26,560 --> 02:52:30,880
just I fear that uh if this gets um some

4116
02:52:29,439 --> 02:52:32,800
of this gets sort of punted to the

4117
02:52:30,880 --> 02:52:34,399
future that there will be into the

4118
02:52:32,800 --> 02:52:35,840
middle middle of next year before we're

4119
02:52:34,399 --> 02:52:37,200
we have direction to move forward on our

4120
02:52:35,840 --> 02:52:38,720
DC background study, our water

4121
02:52:37,200 --> 02:52:40,560
wastewater rate study, any future

4122
02:52:38,720 --> 02:52:42,800
budgeting that that the department has

4123
02:52:40,560 --> 02:52:44,880
had heads have to do. So, um, not to

4124
02:52:42,800 --> 02:52:46,800
mention, uh, strong risk of losing our

4125
02:52:44,880 --> 02:52:48,319
our funding from the HUD program and

4126
02:52:46,800 --> 02:52:50,800
potentially not being successful in our

4127
02:52:48,319 --> 02:52:52,399
federal, uh, grant application. Um, and

4128
02:52:50,800 --> 02:52:54,000
and and you know, hopefully that answers

4129
02:52:52,399 --> 02:52:56,080
your question, but the I I want to add

4130
02:52:54,000 --> 02:52:57,760
that, uh, at the AMO conference,

4131
02:52:56,080 --> 02:52:59,840
typically the the province will signal

4132
02:52:57,760 --> 02:53:01,600
certain things every year. Last year it

4133
02:52:59,840 --> 02:53:03,359
was development charges, and we've seen

4134
02:53:01,600 --> 02:53:05,145
the push to development charge reduction

4135
02:53:03,359 --> 02:53:06,319
and and, uh, and the undertones there

4136
02:53:05,145 --> 02:53:08,800
[clears throat] are pretty serious in in

4137
02:53:06,319 --> 02:53:10,319
the DC world. Um but this year it seems

4138
02:53:08,800 --> 02:53:12,160
to me and I get bit a bit concerned

4139
02:53:10,319 --> 02:53:13,520
about the province um sort of looking at

4140
02:53:12,160 --> 02:53:15,279
water wastewater utilities throughout

4141
02:53:13,520 --> 02:53:17,279
the organiza uh throughout the province.

4142
02:53:15,279 --> 02:53:18,960
And I'm I have a bit of concern that if

4143
02:53:17,279 --> 02:53:20,720
again council doesn't show decisiveness

4144
02:53:18,960 --> 02:53:22,160
on our longer term plan at least to

4145
02:53:20,720 --> 02:53:24,160
allow us to go ahead with some of these

4146
02:53:22,160 --> 02:53:26,080
these um studies and and other

4147
02:53:24,160 --> 02:53:27,600
activities that the province may take a

4148
02:53:26,080 --> 02:53:28,960
bit of a close eye to us. And I I really

4149
02:53:27,600 --> 02:53:30,399
don't I want want the control to stay

4150
02:53:28,960 --> 02:53:32,399
with Prince Edward County. Want the

4151
02:53:30,399 --> 02:53:34,000
control to stay with uh the council of

4152
02:53:32,399 --> 02:53:37,279
Prince County.

4153
02:53:34,000 --> 02:53:39,200
» Thank you CEO. All right. We're gonna

4154
02:53:37,279 --> 02:53:42,319
one quick one. We're just going to go

4155
02:53:39,200 --> 02:53:45,120
and then we're gonna have a vote before

4156
02:53:42,319 --> 02:53:48,880
we we're not taking a break till we

4157
02:53:45,120 --> 02:53:52,720
vote. So, Council McNutton,

4158
02:53:48,880 --> 02:53:55,520
» Thank you. So, um I

4159
02:53:52,720 --> 02:53:59,920
uh I I just want to clarify. So, we've

4160
02:53:55,520 --> 02:54:04,160
we've heard well there this is not uh a

4161
02:53:59,920 --> 02:54:07,120
um a yes no moment. We're we're moving

4162
02:54:04,160 --> 02:54:10,000
forward. uh and it's going to be hard to

4163
02:54:07,120 --> 02:54:11,920
take an off-ramp. So, that's that's what

4164
02:54:10,000 --> 02:54:15,359
we're hearing. I want to be clear that

4165
02:54:11,920 --> 02:54:17,279
that's the the absolute truth because I

4166
02:54:15,359 --> 02:54:19,279
I feel like when we're embarking on a

4167
02:54:17,279 --> 02:54:21,760
water and I'm inclined to support this

4168
02:54:19,279 --> 02:54:23,920
under this particular strategy and it's

4169
02:54:21,760 --> 02:54:27,760
because of the risks to the victim plant

4170
02:54:23,920 --> 02:54:30,479
that I am supporting it and knowing what

4171
02:54:27,760 --> 02:54:33,120
what the future could look like um with

4172
02:54:30,479 --> 02:54:35,840
a lower risk scenario. And again, we're

4173
02:54:33,120 --> 02:54:39,120
back to something. We're back to every

4174
02:54:35,840 --> 02:54:41,520
scenario includes a a very unpalatable

4175
02:54:39,120 --> 02:54:44,399
amount of risk. And this is our reality

4176
02:54:41,520 --> 02:54:47,279
and this is our job. And we also, as as

4177
02:54:44,399 --> 02:54:49,040
Dom pointed out, we all bear uh under

4178
02:54:47,279 --> 02:54:52,479
the Walkerton rules, we all bear

4179
02:54:49,040 --> 02:54:54,800
personal risk to and we are required to

4180
02:54:52,479 --> 02:54:58,000
provide clean drinking water. So the

4181
02:54:54,800 --> 02:55:03,600
reason I supported the last scenario was

4182
02:54:58,000 --> 02:55:06,800
cuz I I think I felt uh trapped um by uh

4183
02:55:03,600 --> 02:55:10,800
the extraordinary costs of doing

4184
02:55:06,800 --> 02:55:13,600
nothing. So um and also the key concern

4185
02:55:10,800 --> 02:55:15,600
of providing um proper drinking water

4186
02:55:13,600 --> 02:55:17,040
for Pikton which is getting increasingly

4187
02:55:15,600 --> 02:55:21,600
difficult to protect and also

4188
02:55:17,040 --> 02:55:24,560
increasingly more expensive to um to

4189
02:55:21,600 --> 02:55:27,760
maintain uh because the source isn't

4190
02:55:24,560 --> 02:55:30,560
great. Um so that has always been a

4191
02:55:27,760 --> 02:55:33,359
factor. It's a factor for me today. Um I

4192
02:55:30,560 --> 02:55:36,240
just want to leave a couple of things

4193
02:55:33,359 --> 02:55:38,080
that I want to clarify when if we went

4194
02:55:36,240 --> 02:55:40,560
forward with this and if there's a green

4195
02:55:38,080 --> 02:55:43,359
light after that and after that when do

4196
02:55:40,560 --> 02:55:47,439
when we get to the design phase

4197
02:55:43,359 --> 02:55:49,840
um when could we conceive of that

4198
02:55:47,439 --> 02:55:51,439
happening after a water wastewater rate

4199
02:55:49,840 --> 02:55:53,040
study and development charge background

4200
02:55:51,439 --> 02:55:58,160
study because I would have additional

4201
02:55:53,040 --> 02:56:01,359
comments to to to provide preliminary to

4202
02:55:58,160 --> 02:56:04,240
that any design undertaking.

4203
02:56:01,359 --> 02:56:06,880
» Crystal, that might be a design phase

4204
02:56:04,240 --> 02:56:08,880
question. I think it's kind of a total

4205
02:56:06,880 --> 02:56:11,359
shot in the dark.

4206
02:56:08,880 --> 02:56:14,479
» I I wonder if that too, but I think

4207
02:56:11,359 --> 02:56:16,080
» Well, I'm going to say it's not even

4208
02:56:14,479 --> 02:56:18,160
close to that. So, we shouldn't even

4209
02:56:16,080 --> 02:56:20,240
like So, what I'm going to say is follow

4210
02:56:18,160 --> 02:56:21,760
along. If you're back around the

4211
02:56:20,240 --> 02:56:23,040
horseshoe, wonderful. If you're not,

4212
02:56:21,760 --> 02:56:24,479
follow along and we'll take your

4213
02:56:23,040 --> 02:56:25,279
comments because who knows when it's

4214
02:56:24,479 --> 02:56:28,080
going to be.

4215
02:56:25,279 --> 02:56:30,880
» Hopefully, we're all still around. Um,

4216
02:56:28,080 --> 02:56:32,880
so is there any questions for detail

4217
02:56:30,880 --> 02:56:35,760
that like we I just feel we're starting

4218
02:56:32,880 --> 02:56:38,399
to repeat each other and it's just going

4219
02:56:35,760 --> 02:56:41,600
in a in a in a circle and I don't want

4220
02:56:38,399 --> 02:56:46,080
to. So any other questions? Councelor

4221
02:56:41,600 --> 02:56:49,279
Panel has a question for clarity.

4222
02:56:46,080 --> 02:56:52,000
I've got two question. One is when are

4223
02:56:49,279 --> 02:56:55,680
we going to get the information that has

4224
02:56:52,000 --> 02:57:00,000
been asked for by several people,

4225
02:56:55,680 --> 02:57:01,279
rural versus urban for amount of housing

4226
02:57:00,000 --> 02:57:03,120
in a year.

4227
02:57:01,279 --> 02:57:05,200
» She she said they said they were going

4228
02:57:03,120 --> 02:57:08,080
to look into that and let us know. So,

4229
02:57:05,200 --> 02:57:11,359
» Okay, as long as we know, but we've

4230
02:57:08,080 --> 02:57:13,680
asked that in the past, never found out.

4231
02:57:11,359 --> 02:57:15,439
The other thing is,

4232
02:57:13,680 --> 02:57:21,040
and I don't know whether I should be

4233
02:57:15,439 --> 02:57:24,880
asking Sean Michael or or yourself, but

4234
02:57:21,040 --> 02:57:26,960
as Watson's were so wrong on their

4235
02:57:24,880 --> 02:57:30,800
prediction of how the county was

4236
02:57:26,960 --> 02:57:35,439
growing, how can we be positive now that

4237
02:57:30,800 --> 02:57:38,000
everything they're putting before us is

4238
02:57:35,439 --> 02:57:39,520
right? I think it's a fair question.

4239
02:57:38,000 --> 02:57:42,319
» That sounds like a Shawn Michael

4240
02:57:39,520 --> 02:57:42,319
question.

4241
02:57:43,600 --> 02:57:49,680
Um just to clarify with the audio was

4242
02:57:46,720 --> 02:57:50,800
the question about um the prior 2.4%

4243
02:57:49,680 --> 02:57:53,520
growth projections.

4244
02:57:50,800 --> 02:57:56,880
» Yeah. Then in summary his question was

4245
02:57:53,520 --> 02:57:58,880
how can we be confident when

4246
02:57:56,880 --> 02:58:01,520
in his words you were so wrong on your

4247
02:57:58,880 --> 02:58:03,040
first projection.

4248
02:58:01,520 --> 02:58:07,279
How can we be confident in Watson's

4249
02:58:03,040 --> 02:58:12,319
projections now? So um

4250
02:58:07,279 --> 02:58:16,160
this comes back to um unfortunately a um

4251
02:58:12,319 --> 02:58:18,160
that our our prior growth um work was

4252
02:58:16,160 --> 02:58:20,640
not used correctly in the master

4253
02:58:18,160 --> 02:58:22,240
planning work. So our prior growth

4254
02:58:20,640 --> 02:58:24,399
projections were consistent with what

4255
02:58:22,240 --> 02:58:26,960
they are the 1%

4256
02:58:24,399 --> 02:58:29,359
um that had been previously forecast.

4257
02:58:26,960 --> 02:58:32,160
The growth work that looked at a 2.4% 4%

4258
02:58:29,359 --> 02:58:34,479
projection was um

4259
02:58:32,160 --> 02:58:37,840
specifically done at the behest of

4260
02:58:34,479 --> 02:58:39,760
county staff at the time to show what

4261
02:58:37,840 --> 02:58:42,240
the growth rate would be if all of the

4262
02:58:39,760 --> 02:58:45,920
available supply was taken up within

4263
02:58:42,240 --> 02:58:48,960
that time period. And it was um not

4264
02:58:45,920 --> 02:58:51,520
intended to be a demand-driven growth

4265
02:58:48,960 --> 02:58:53,279
projection that was done um within the

4266
02:58:51,520 --> 02:58:56,000
same report and it was the 1%

4267
02:58:53,279 --> 02:58:57,439
projection. So, um, our our growth

4268
02:58:56,000 --> 02:58:58,960
projections are consistent with what

4269
02:58:57,439 --> 02:59:01,840
they have been in the past.

4270
02:58:58,960 --> 02:59:04,640
» Thank you, Sean Michael.

4271
02:59:01,840 --> 02:59:07,920
Okay, so

4272
02:59:04,640 --> 02:59:10,479
» The motion is on the floor.

4273
02:59:07,920 --> 02:59:12,479
» Councelor Hirs has just asked asked for

4274
02:59:10,479 --> 02:59:15,920
a recorded vote. Sorry, Councelor Panel,

4275
02:59:12,479 --> 02:59:18,240
he beat you. Um, so, Madame Clerk, I

4276
02:59:15,920 --> 02:59:21,240
will turn it over to you for a recorded

4277
02:59:18,240 --> 02:59:21,240
vote.

4278
02:59:31,200 --> 02:59:34,000
Councelor Hirs

4279
02:59:32,399 --> 02:59:36,720
» In favor.

4280
02:59:34,000 --> 02:59:37,920
» Councelor McNottton

4281
02:59:36,720 --> 02:59:39,200
» In favor.

4282
02:59:37,920 --> 02:59:40,240
» Councelor Brainy

4283
02:59:39,200 --> 02:59:42,800
» Opposed.

4284
02:59:40,240 --> 02:59:44,800
» Councelor Maynard

4285
02:59:42,800 --> 02:59:48,359
» Opposed.

4286
02:59:44,800 --> 02:59:48,359
Councelor Groso.

4287
02:59:52,640 --> 02:59:58,240
Councelor Groso,

4288
02:59:55,680 --> 02:59:59,840
» You're on mute if you're still there.

4289
02:59:58,240 --> 03:00:01,840
» Okay, we'll come back to him. Councelor

4290
02:59:59,840 --> 03:00:04,720
Nyman.

4291
03:00:01,840 --> 03:00:06,640
» Opposed.

4292
03:00:04,720 --> 03:00:08,319
» Councelor Roberts

4293
03:00:06,640 --> 03:00:09,920
» In favor.

4294
03:00:08,319 --> 03:00:12,880
» Councelor Prinsen

4295
03:00:09,920 --> 03:00:15,200
» Opposed.

4296
03:00:12,880 --> 03:00:18,399
Councelor Staintine

4297
03:00:15,200 --> 03:00:20,160
» In favor.

4298
03:00:18,399 --> 03:00:23,160
» Councelor Panel

4299
03:00:20,160 --> 03:00:23,160
» Oppose.

4300
03:00:23,600 --> 03:00:29,040
» Councelor Brand Councelor Englesorfer

4301
03:00:26,399 --> 03:00:30,479
» Opposed.

4302
03:00:29,040 --> 03:00:32,080
» Mayor Ferguson

4303
03:00:30,479 --> 03:00:33,920
» In favor.

4304
03:00:32,080 --> 03:00:36,080
» Councelor Groso said his screen's fro

4305
03:00:33,920 --> 03:00:37,600
frozen, but he's in favor. He texted me.

4306
03:00:36,080 --> 03:00:40,000
I don't know if that works or not, but

4307
03:00:37,600 --> 03:00:42,800
he said his screen's frozen.

4308
03:00:40,000 --> 03:00:42,800
I'm just

4309
03:00:44,479 --> 03:00:50,279
You can I'm

4310
03:00:46,800 --> 03:00:50,279
» Could he put

4311
03:00:52,800 --> 03:00:56,800
» Um

4312
03:00:53,120 --> 03:00:59,800
» Either way it fails on a die?

4313
03:00:56,800 --> 03:00:59,800
» Yeah.

4314
03:01:00,399 --> 03:01:04,880
» So, he texted you. He said he's in

4315
03:01:03,040 --> 03:01:09,800
favor.

4316
03:01:04,880 --> 03:01:09,800
» My screen is frozen. I'm in favor.

4317
03:01:09,920 --> 03:01:14,080
the new age.

4318
03:01:10,960 --> 03:01:16,479
» If you agree, Mr. Chair, to include his

4319
03:01:14,080 --> 03:01:17,200
» Either way, it loses on a 65 or a 66

4320
03:01:16,479 --> 03:01:19,675
tie. So,

4321
03:01:17,200 --> 03:01:21,694
» It loses on a tie.

4322
03:01:19,675 --> 03:01:21,694
[snorts]

4323
03:01:25,359 --> 03:01:29,120
» Just a Are we counting his vote or we're

4324
03:01:28,319 --> 03:01:29,920
not?

4325
03:01:29,120 --> 03:01:32,319
» It doesn't matter.

4326
03:01:29,920 --> 03:01:35,040
» It doesn't It doesn't matter.

4327
03:01:32,319 --> 03:01:37,200
» I will say no because it's still won't m

4328
03:01:35,040 --> 03:01:38,479
change the outcome of the vote. Uh, at

4329
03:01:37,200 --> 03:01:40,880
this time I'll look for a motion to

4330
03:01:38,479 --> 03:01:43,200
extend.

4331
03:01:40,880 --> 03:01:45,520
McNotton Nyman. Thank you. And now I'm

4332
03:01:43,200 --> 03:01:48,960
calling a 10-minute recess. All in

4333
03:01:45,520 --> 03:01:52,600
favor? 10-minute recess.

4334
03:01:48,960 --> 03:01:52,600
10 minutes tops.

4335
03:10:09,120 --> 03:10:14,840
If I could get council members to come

4336
03:10:10,880 --> 03:10:14,840
back, that would be great. Please

4337
03:10:57,439 --> 03:10:59,439
All

4338
03:11:10,960 --> 03:11:15,200
right, we have quorum again. So, we are

4339
03:11:13,760 --> 03:11:18,800
going to call this meeting back to order

4340
03:11:15,200 --> 03:11:20,560
and start. We are on 7.2.

4341
03:11:18,800 --> 03:11:22,399
Uh, I will ask that somebody puts this

4342
03:11:20,560 --> 03:11:25,920
on the floor and then we will get into

4343
03:11:22,399 --> 03:11:27,200
discussion. Councelor Hirs seconded by

4344
03:11:25,920 --> 03:11:29,279
councelor McDnottton.

4345
03:11:27,200 --> 03:11:32,080
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is I guess

4346
03:11:29,279 --> 03:11:33,279
this is logically my uh my motion.

4347
03:11:32,080 --> 03:11:33,840
Sorry, who was the second?

4348
03:11:33,279 --> 03:11:37,200
» McDottton.

4349
03:11:33,840 --> 03:11:39,040
» McDton. Handton motion that report CSP

4350
03:11:37,200 --> 03:11:40,880
132026

4351
03:11:39,040 --> 03:11:42,800
regarding the exploration of municipal

4352
03:11:40,880 --> 03:11:45,279
support options for a dark sky preserve

4353
03:11:42,800 --> 03:11:46,720
be received. that the mayor provide a

4354
03:11:45,279 --> 03:11:48,880
letter of support for the Southshore

4355
03:11:46,720 --> 03:11:51,279
joint initiative and Royal Astronomical

4356
03:11:48,880 --> 03:11:53,279
Society of Canada in support of their

4357
03:11:51,279 --> 03:11:55,200
efforts to pursue a dark sky preserve

4358
03:11:53,279 --> 03:11:57,760
designation along Prince Edward County

4359
03:11:55,200 --> 03:12:00,319
Southshore. The council directs staff to

4360
03:11:57,760 --> 03:12:01,760
develop a dark sky policy aligned with

4361
03:12:00,319 --> 03:12:04,000
the principles of the Canadian

4362
03:12:01,760 --> 03:12:05,760
guidelines for outdoor lighting for

4363
03:12:04,000 --> 03:12:08,160
consideration by council at a future

4364
03:12:05,760 --> 03:12:09,680
meeting. And the council direct staff to

4365
03:12:08,160 --> 03:12:11,840
work with the Southshore joint

4366
03:12:09,680 --> 03:12:14,000
initiative to establish a memorandum of

4367
03:12:11,840 --> 03:12:16,560
understanding regarding the use of

4368
03:12:14,000 --> 03:12:18,800
Mariners Park Museum lands for astronomy

4369
03:12:16,560 --> 03:12:21,760
related programming, public education,

4370
03:12:18,800 --> 03:12:24,240
and dark sky viewing activities.

4371
03:12:21,760 --> 03:12:26,240
» Thank you, councelor Hirs. Welcome.

4372
03:12:24,240 --> 03:12:27,760
Would you like to give an overview of

4373
03:12:26,240 --> 03:12:29,359
your report?

4374
03:12:27,760 --> 03:12:31,120
» Thank you. And through your chair. My

4375
03:12:29,359 --> 03:12:32,880
name is Katon Zachariah. My pronouns are

4376
03:12:31,120 --> 03:12:34,640
they them. And I'm very happy to be here

4377
03:12:32,880 --> 03:12:36,640
this afternoon to share about the dark

4378
03:12:34,640 --> 03:12:38,479
sky preserve. Uh and this is also my

4379
03:12:36,640 --> 03:12:40,080
first report. So I'm very honored to be

4380
03:12:38,479 --> 03:12:42,800
here.

4381
03:12:40,080 --> 03:12:44,800
» Thank you. Uh this report responds to

4382
03:12:42,800 --> 03:12:47,040
council direction following a deputation

4383
03:12:44,800 --> 03:12:49,359
from the Southshore Joint Initiative and

4384
03:12:47,040 --> 03:12:51,439
the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada

4385
03:12:49,359 --> 03:12:54,000
regarding a dark sky preserve along the

4386
03:12:51,439 --> 03:12:55,760
southshore of Prince Ed County. Staff

4387
03:12:54,000 --> 03:12:58,399
are directed to explore opportunities

4388
03:12:55,760 --> 03:13:00,479
for municipal support and report back.

4389
03:12:58,399 --> 03:13:01,840
The recommendations before council today

4390
03:13:00,479 --> 03:13:03,520
are intended to support this

4391
03:13:01,840 --> 03:13:05,520
community-led initiative through

4392
03:13:03,520 --> 03:13:07,600
partnership, education, and gradual

4393
03:13:05,520 --> 03:13:09,600
improvements to municipal practices

4394
03:13:07,600 --> 03:13:11,760
while minimizing impacts on residents,

4395
03:13:09,600 --> 03:13:13,359
businesses, and municipal operations.

4396
03:13:11,760 --> 03:13:14,800
I'm happy to take any questions that you

4397
03:13:13,359 --> 03:13:16,399
have today.

4398
03:13:14,800 --> 03:13:18,160
» Perfect. Thank you very much for the

4399
03:13:16,399 --> 03:13:20,960
overview. I think we'll go a little

4400
03:13:18,160 --> 03:13:22,479
easier on you than we did on Aaron. So,

4401
03:13:20,960 --> 03:13:25,279
uh, do we have any do we have any

4402
03:13:22,479 --> 03:13:26,960
questions? Councelor

4403
03:13:25,279 --> 03:13:28,720
Hirs. Thank you.

4404
03:13:26,960 --> 03:13:31,359
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. Actually, not a

4405
03:13:28,720 --> 03:13:33,920
question, but just two comments. Great

4406
03:13:31,359 --> 03:13:36,160
report, Kaden. I thought uh it was well

4407
03:13:33,920 --> 03:13:38,080
analyzed and and coming up with options

4408
03:13:36,160 --> 03:13:41,520
that don't cost any money are always

4409
03:13:38,080 --> 03:13:44,720
very favorable things. Um and and just a

4410
03:13:41,520 --> 03:13:46,720
shout out to um uh Steve Burner. Some of

4411
03:13:44,720 --> 03:13:48,880
you may remember that Steve from the

4412
03:13:46,720 --> 03:13:51,200
Royal Astronomical Society presented to

4413
03:13:48,880 --> 03:13:54,319
us a year or so ago, something like

4414
03:13:51,200 --> 03:13:57,040
that. and he worked with Katon on on

4415
03:13:54,319 --> 03:13:59,120
producing this uh this document um

4416
03:13:57,040 --> 03:14:02,000
behind the scenes. So, shout out to

4417
03:13:59,120 --> 03:14:03,200
Steve and um great job. Thank you.

4418
03:14:02,000 --> 03:14:04,239
» Thank you, Councelor Harris, Councelor

4419
03:14:03,200 --> 03:14:06,640
McNutton.

4420
03:14:04,239 --> 03:14:08,000
» Thank you. And also great timing because

4421
03:14:06,640 --> 03:14:09,840
it's nice to have something that's easy

4422
03:14:08,000 --> 03:14:13,840
and wonderful to talk about after our

4423
03:14:09,840 --> 03:14:16,080
last item which was very uh um which is

4424
03:14:13,840 --> 03:14:18,000
a difficult

4425
03:14:16,080 --> 03:14:22,479
uh topic of conversation. So, thanks and

4426
03:14:18,000 --> 03:14:24,560
great report. Any further

4427
03:14:22,479 --> 03:14:28,680
questions, comments? Not seeing any.

4428
03:14:24,560 --> 03:14:28,680
I'll call the vote. All in favor?

4429
03:14:30,560 --> 03:14:35,920
And that carries? I think.

4430
03:14:33,920 --> 03:14:38,920
Can I see hands up, please? All in

4431
03:14:35,920 --> 03:14:38,920
favor?

4432
03:14:40,800 --> 03:14:45,200
» I'm up.

4433
03:14:42,720 --> 03:14:47,840
» So, that carries. And Groso's up. He's

4434
03:14:45,200 --> 03:14:51,800
back up. Thank you.

4435
03:14:47,840 --> 03:14:51,800
» Thank you. Thank you very much.

4436
03:14:55,520 --> 03:15:00,080
» All right, moving along. 7.3 report of

4437
03:14:58,160 --> 03:15:01,840
the housing department. Uh, regarding

4438
03:15:00,080 --> 03:15:04,560
Nicholas Street Homes Limited

4439
03:15:01,840 --> 03:15:06,479
Development WA fee waiver request. Could

4440
03:15:04,560 --> 03:15:08,960
I have somebody put this on the floor?

4441
03:15:06,479 --> 03:15:10,560
Councelor McNutton, seconded by

4442
03:15:08,960 --> 03:15:13,680
Councelor Roberts.

4443
03:15:10,560 --> 03:15:18,319
» Thank you, McNutton's Robert. Um motion

4444
03:15:13,680 --> 03:15:20,319
that council receive report HD uh 062026

4445
03:15:18,319 --> 03:15:22,000
that council direct staff to return with

4446
03:15:20,319 --> 03:15:24,160
a bylaw and development charges act

4447
03:15:22,000 --> 03:15:26,080
development agreement with Nicholas

4448
03:15:24,160 --> 03:15:30,319
Homes Limited to secure a 25-year

4449
03:15:26,080 --> 03:15:32,720
commitment of 31 of the 120 rental units

4450
03:15:30,319 --> 03:15:34,479
in building E for the Nicholas Street

4451
03:15:32,720 --> 03:15:36,319
Homes development and that council

4452
03:15:34,479 --> 03:15:41,120
direct staff to bring forward an

4453
03:15:36,319 --> 03:15:42,720
amendment to bylaw um uh 4019-207

4454
03:15:41,120 --> 03:15:44,479
being a bylaw to impose

4455
03:15:42,720 --> 03:15:46,319
water and sanitary sewer connection

4456
03:15:44,479 --> 03:15:48,720
charges upon the owners and occupants of

4457
03:15:46,319 --> 03:15:50,880
land within the county of Prince Edward

4458
03:15:48,720 --> 03:15:53,840
for all connections to municip

4459
03:15:50,880 --> 03:15:56,479
municipally operated water and sanitary

4460
03:15:53,840 --> 03:15:58,399
sewer works to align with the municipal

4461
03:15:56,479 --> 03:16:01,040
definition of affordable housing.

4462
03:15:58,399 --> 03:16:03,600
» Thank you councelor McNotton.

4463
03:16:01,040 --> 03:16:06,160
Welcome Alice. You can uh would you like

4464
03:16:03,600 --> 03:16:09,600
to give an overview of your report?

4465
03:16:06,160 --> 03:16:11,840
» Uh thank you uh through the chair. Um, I

4466
03:16:09,600 --> 03:16:15,040
think the best way to to bring um break

4467
03:16:11,840 --> 03:16:19,439
this down is into uh the three parts of

4468
03:16:15,040 --> 03:16:23,760
the 180 uh 94,000

4469
03:16:19,439 --> 03:16:26,399
uh 890 that was requested in um

4470
03:16:23,760 --> 03:16:32,319
resulting in the the motion to bring

4471
03:16:26,399 --> 03:16:35,520
this back. Um so there are three uh

4472
03:16:32,319 --> 03:16:38,399
incentives essentially that um Nicholas

4473
03:16:35,520 --> 03:16:40,720
Street Homes has asked for. One is for

4474
03:16:38,399 --> 03:16:44,560
uh development charge reduction for

4475
03:16:40,720 --> 03:16:46,880
market uh purpose-built market uh rental

4476
03:16:44,560 --> 03:16:49,359
housing. Uh that's an automatic

4477
03:16:46,880 --> 03:16:53,359
reduction under provincial legislation.

4478
03:16:49,359 --> 03:16:55,680
The second is a uh development charge

4479
03:16:53,359 --> 03:16:57,359
exemption for affordable units also

4480
03:16:55,680 --> 03:16:59,279
under provincial legislation. And the

4481
03:16:57,359 --> 03:17:01,760
third thing that was requested was a

4482
03:16:59,279 --> 03:17:04,560
sitewide water wastewater connection

4483
03:17:01,760 --> 03:17:07,680
charge uh refund under an existing

4484
03:17:04,560 --> 03:17:10,080
bylaw. Uh so just covering the

4485
03:17:07,680 --> 03:17:12,080
development charge first um you'll see

4486
03:17:10,080 --> 03:17:15,680
that uh there's a breakout on the first

4487
03:17:12,080 --> 03:17:19,680
page um in the background of uh the

4488
03:17:15,680 --> 03:17:22,160
amounts requested and coincidentally um

4489
03:17:19,680 --> 03:17:25,680
uh director McNichol and Shawn Michael

4490
03:17:22,160 --> 03:17:28,720
Stevens Watson um

4491
03:17:25,680 --> 03:17:33,200
uh who was here earlier calculated based

4492
03:17:28,720 --> 03:17:35,120
on uh current data uh that those two

4493
03:17:33,200 --> 03:17:36,239
were skewed slightly lower than what was

4494
03:17:35,120 --> 03:17:38,479
requested.

4495
03:17:36,239 --> 03:17:43,840
Um and the connection charge waiver

4496
03:17:38,479 --> 03:17:48,000
itself um requires as the as the bylaw

4497
03:17:43,840 --> 03:17:51,439
stands that it's a 30%

4498
03:17:48,000 --> 03:17:53,520
refund to the developer after occupancy

4499
03:17:51,439 --> 03:17:55,200
for the portion of affordable units

4500
03:17:53,520 --> 03:17:58,720
only. That's the way the the current

4501
03:17:55,200 --> 03:18:01,600
bylaw uh is structured um on how it's

4502
03:17:58,720 --> 03:18:05,359
paid out. How it's eligible is what

4503
03:18:01,600 --> 03:18:08,720
needs to be amended. So essentially the

4504
03:18:05,359 --> 03:18:11,279
the development charge reduction is uh

4505
03:18:08,720 --> 03:18:13,359
automatic. The development charge

4506
03:18:11,279 --> 03:18:16,160
exemption requires an agreement between

4507
03:18:13,359 --> 03:18:19,040
the municipality and the developer for

4508
03:18:16,160 --> 03:18:21,439
25 years. And the connection charge

4509
03:18:19,040 --> 03:18:24,560
bylaw would apply after it was amended

4510
03:18:21,439 --> 03:18:30,000
and after it was determined that those

4511
03:18:24,560 --> 03:18:33,279
um affordable units existed. So um

4512
03:18:30,000 --> 03:18:37,120
all of it um assumes that those units

4513
03:18:33,279 --> 03:18:39,439
will be um developed at the at the rent

4514
03:18:37,120 --> 03:18:44,720
amounts provided in the report um in

4515
03:18:39,439 --> 03:18:48,160
section one. Um so that's

4516
03:18:44,720 --> 03:18:51,439
essentially where it stands.

4517
03:18:48,160 --> 03:18:54,960
» Perfect. Thank you. Uh open the floor to

4518
03:18:51,439 --> 03:19:00,319
committee. Councelor Panel.

4519
03:18:54,960 --> 03:19:02,640
» Yeah. I I'm in favor of legally anything

4520
03:19:00,319 --> 03:19:06,640
we can do

4521
03:19:02,640 --> 03:19:09,200
as far as legislated by the province.

4522
03:19:06,640 --> 03:19:12,399
But when it comes to looking at the

4523
03:19:09,200 --> 03:19:15,520
overall thing and uh connection charges,

4524
03:19:12,399 --> 03:19:20,479
I'm not in favor of that for the simple

4525
03:19:15,520 --> 03:19:24,800
reason as we move ahead with housing,

4526
03:19:20,479 --> 03:19:28,000
we're hopefully going to be

4527
03:19:24,800 --> 03:19:30,479
dealing with other developers

4528
03:19:28,000 --> 03:19:33,600
to get affordable housing. And if we

4529
03:19:30,479 --> 03:19:36,319
start giving away things right now, it's

4530
03:19:33,600 --> 03:19:40,479
only going to get worse. And I I

4531
03:19:36,319 --> 03:19:42,399
honestly think that they should pay the

4532
03:19:40,479 --> 03:19:43,840
regular charge on that.

4533
03:19:42,399 --> 03:19:45,680
» Thank you. Councelor Panel, do you want

4534
03:19:43,840 --> 03:19:47,760
to follow up or

4535
03:19:45,680 --> 03:19:49,760
» Uh through the chair only to say to

4536
03:19:47,760 --> 03:19:52,319
councelor Panel that to to do that you'd

4537
03:19:49,760 --> 03:19:54,160
have to resend the bylaw altogether. Uh

4538
03:19:52,319 --> 03:19:58,479
there the bylaw currently stands that

4539
03:19:54,160 --> 03:20:00,800
that 30% refund u after occupancy is

4540
03:19:58,479 --> 03:20:04,680
provided. So that could be something

4541
03:20:00,800 --> 03:20:04,680
that council could consider.

4542
03:20:05,279 --> 03:20:10,399
on

4543
03:20:07,040 --> 03:20:12,319
» Everything or just on

4544
03:20:10,399 --> 03:20:14,080
the affordable

4545
03:20:12,319 --> 03:20:16,160
» The through the chair the developer has

4546
03:20:14,080 --> 03:20:18,080
requested that it be sitewide uh but the

4547
03:20:16,160 --> 03:20:19,120
bylaw as it stands says it's only for

4548
03:20:18,080 --> 03:20:20,880
affordable units.

4549
03:20:19,120 --> 03:20:22,880
» Yeah, that's what I

4550
03:20:20,880 --> 03:20:25,520
» Councelor Nman.

4551
03:20:22,880 --> 03:20:29,520
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, they want it

4552
03:20:25,520 --> 03:20:32,640
for 25 years, but um if it's an

4553
03:20:29,520 --> 03:20:34,239
affordable housing, uh then it's only

4554
03:20:32,640 --> 03:20:36,000
good for 20 years, then they put the

4555
03:20:34,239 --> 03:20:37,439
rent up. Is that not correct? So, I'm

4556
03:20:36,000 --> 03:20:39,359
just wondering why they want the extra

4557
03:20:37,439 --> 03:20:41,760
five years.

4558
03:20:39,359 --> 03:20:43,920
» The 20 uh through the chair, the the 25

4559
03:20:41,760 --> 03:20:46,720
years is a development charge um

4560
03:20:43,920 --> 03:20:48,479
agreement requirement. um they would be

4561
03:20:46,720 --> 03:20:51,200
able to put the rent up by statutory

4562
03:20:48,479 --> 03:20:53,359
guideline every year regardless

4563
03:20:51,200 --> 03:20:55,200
which is usually around 2% but that's

4564
03:20:53,359 --> 03:20:57,600
outside of the scope of this report.

4565
03:20:55,200 --> 03:20:59,520
» Okay. I just Yep. Okay.

4566
03:20:57,600 --> 03:21:02,880
» Councelor Mayard.

4567
03:20:59,520 --> 03:21:05,840
» Um thank you. This is at least better

4568
03:21:02,880 --> 03:21:08,000
some some better news. So if if um in

4569
03:21:05,840 --> 03:21:09,840
that one paragraph executive summary it

4570
03:21:08,000 --> 03:21:11,680
says that the definition of affordable

4571
03:21:09,840 --> 03:21:15,600
housing in the bylaw is outdated and

4572
03:21:11,680 --> 03:21:18,800
requires review but is that's not like

4573
03:21:15,600 --> 03:21:21,520
in the third bullet point there like

4574
03:21:18,800 --> 03:21:24,399
what are we are are we going to do the

4575
03:21:21,520 --> 03:21:27,279
review after we give them the after we

4576
03:21:24,399 --> 03:21:32,080
pass the like just clarify for me.

4577
03:21:27,279 --> 03:21:34,960
Sorry. the connection charge uh refund

4578
03:21:32,080 --> 03:21:37,600
bylaw as it stands is based on data uh

4579
03:21:34,960 --> 03:21:39,680
that no longer exists. So because we

4580
03:21:37,600 --> 03:21:42,080
have the municipal capital facilities

4581
03:21:39,680 --> 03:21:44,399
bylaw that defines what affordability

4582
03:21:42,080 --> 03:21:48,160
is, we just need to update that portion

4583
03:21:44,399 --> 03:21:49,680
of the bylaw to say that um that so it's

4584
03:21:48,160 --> 03:21:53,800
consistent with the definition of

4585
03:21:49,680 --> 03:21:53,800
affordability that we have.

4586
03:21:55,439 --> 03:21:59,200
change the money.

4587
03:21:57,760 --> 03:22:00,319
» You're the chair. Did I answer the

4588
03:21:59,200 --> 03:22:02,399
question?

4589
03:22:00,319 --> 03:22:05,279
» Yeah. Well, I I guess I'm just trying to

4590
03:22:02,399 --> 03:22:09,080
get it after we just get my head wrapped

4591
03:22:05,279 --> 03:22:09,080
around like what

4592
03:22:09,200 --> 03:22:13,840
So, they're getting what they want and

4593
03:22:11,359 --> 03:22:16,160
then we're going to change the bylaw. Is

4594
03:22:13,840 --> 03:22:17,520
that what we're doing? Sorry.

4595
03:22:16,160 --> 03:22:19,359
» Through through the chair. No, we need

4596
03:22:17,520 --> 03:22:21,439
to to change the bylaw first because

4597
03:22:19,359 --> 03:22:24,160
that definition

4598
03:22:21,439 --> 03:22:27,920
essentially doesn't exist. So the the

4599
03:22:24,160 --> 03:22:30,560
bylaw needs to be changed and then the

4600
03:22:27,920 --> 03:22:32,560
developer if those 31 units um are

4601
03:22:30,560 --> 03:22:35,120
affordable by that definition would get

4602
03:22:32,560 --> 03:22:37,120
the 30% waiver on the connection charge

4603
03:22:35,120 --> 03:22:39,439
after occupancy.

4604
03:22:37,120 --> 03:22:44,920
» So then we're aligning it with a re what

4605
03:22:39,439 --> 03:22:44,920
will be a revised municipal definition.

4606
03:22:45,359 --> 03:22:50,479
» Yes, except that it has to happen first.

4607
03:22:48,640 --> 03:22:52,479
So the byon the by line needs to be

4608
03:22:50,479 --> 03:22:54,880
revised in order for the application to

4609
03:22:52,479 --> 03:22:57,760
be made for the refund. So the the

4610
03:22:54,880 --> 03:22:59,359
refund is after the fact.

4611
03:22:57,760 --> 03:23:02,800
» Yes.

4612
03:22:59,359 --> 03:23:06,239
» Okay. Um I just have one quick question.

4613
03:23:02,800 --> 03:23:09,040
Um we're waving fees, correct? The

4614
03:23:06,239 --> 03:23:11,279
development charges or fees, however you

4615
03:23:09,040 --> 03:23:14,319
and what just for the public, how many

4616
03:23:11,279 --> 03:23:16,080
total dollars is that?

4617
03:23:14,319 --> 03:23:18,239
the uh through the chair, the total

4618
03:23:16,080 --> 03:23:21,840
would be um listed under the budget

4619
03:23:18,239 --> 03:23:23,760
considerations. So 201,000 for uh the 31

4620
03:23:21,840 --> 03:23:26,960
affordable units um exempted under

4621
03:23:23,760 --> 03:23:29,120
agreement and then 136,000 for the 89

4622
03:23:26,960 --> 03:23:32,479
market rent units.

4623
03:23:29,120 --> 03:23:35,200
» Okay. So, so my question is actually

4624
03:23:32,479 --> 03:23:37,760
probably not to you but to the CEO. Are

4625
03:23:35,200 --> 03:23:40,319
we not making financial decisions over

4626
03:23:37,760 --> 03:23:42,319
$50,000 during restricted acts now that

4627
03:23:40,319 --> 03:23:43,920
we shouldn't be doing because we are

4628
03:23:42,319 --> 03:23:46,560
essentially

4629
03:23:43,920 --> 03:23:48,479
taking money from the next council.

4630
03:23:46,560 --> 03:23:50,399
Where's this land out for us? I'm I'm

4631
03:23:48,479 --> 03:23:52,720
worried about I'm worried about making

4632
03:23:50,399 --> 03:23:55,120
decisions. So So just being honest with

4633
03:23:52,720 --> 03:23:57,359
you, I reread your email you sent about

4634
03:23:55,120 --> 03:23:59,200
restricted acts. It says over 50,000

4635
03:23:57,359 --> 03:24:03,200
here. We just talked about well over

4636
03:23:59,200 --> 03:24:04,560
50,000. So no matter I guess how you

4637
03:24:03,200 --> 03:24:05,920
answer when we get to it, I'm going to

4638
03:24:04,560 --> 03:24:07,439
break this apart and not support number

4639
03:24:05,920 --> 03:24:09,120
three because I think we're tying next

4640
03:24:07,439 --> 03:24:12,080
council's hands. So I'd just like to see

4641
03:24:09,120 --> 03:24:14,399
what you're

4642
03:24:12,080 --> 03:24:17,120
Okay, madame clerk,

4643
03:24:14,399 --> 03:24:20,160
» Through the chair, members of committee.

4644
03:24:17,120 --> 03:24:22,239
So I thought about this as well and

4645
03:24:20,160 --> 03:24:24,399
obviously this agenda was unfortunately

4646
03:24:22,239 --> 03:24:27,600
published before we were confirmed to be

4647
03:24:24,399 --> 03:24:30,399
in restricted acts. So lame duck status.

4648
03:24:27,600 --> 03:24:32,560
So the point about the statutory

4649
03:24:30,399 --> 03:24:34,800
development charges discounts that's

4650
03:24:32,560 --> 03:24:37,040
permitted because that is permitted

4651
03:24:34,800 --> 03:24:39,120
under provincial legislation in the

4652
03:24:37,040 --> 03:24:41,279
development charges act. So you can

4653
03:24:39,120 --> 03:24:43,120
proceed with processing that portion of

4654
03:24:41,279 --> 03:24:44,720
this to your point about supporting

4655
03:24:43,120 --> 03:24:47,359
recommendation number two.

4656
03:24:44,720 --> 03:24:50,640
Recommendation number three granting um

4657
03:24:47,359 --> 03:24:54,319
it is just a update to the bylaw. So,

4658
03:24:50,640 --> 03:24:56,160
you're only doing um a policy change to

4659
03:24:54,319 --> 03:24:57,920
update the definition to comply with

4660
03:24:56,160 --> 03:25:00,560
what the definition what the municipal

4661
03:24:57,920 --> 03:25:04,080
definition is of affordable housing. It

4662
03:25:00,560 --> 03:25:07,120
has been made clear to me by um uh the

4663
03:25:04,080 --> 03:25:08,800
supervisor of housing that the um what's

4664
03:25:07,120 --> 03:25:11,200
outlined in the report about granting

4665
03:25:08,800 --> 03:25:13,520
connection charge relief that the

4666
03:25:11,200 --> 03:25:15,920
$88,917

4667
03:25:13,520 --> 03:25:17,840
uh dollars that would be something that

4668
03:25:15,920 --> 03:25:20,080
the new council would make a decision

4669
03:25:17,840 --> 03:25:21,920
on. So right now what you're being asked

4670
03:25:20,080 --> 03:25:24,080
to do is to do the development charges

4671
03:25:21,920 --> 03:25:25,680
portion of this report and then update

4672
03:25:24,080 --> 03:25:27,680
the bylaw to comply with the new

4673
03:25:25,680 --> 03:25:30,000
definition of affordable housing. The

4674
03:25:27,680 --> 03:25:32,960
actual relief of the connection charges

4675
03:25:30,000 --> 03:25:34,960
will come forward to the new council.

4676
03:25:32,960 --> 03:25:37,359
» Perfect. So that's good clarity I think

4677
03:25:34,960 --> 03:25:39,840
for us all.

4678
03:25:37,359 --> 03:25:42,319
» Uh councelor Nyman.

4679
03:25:39,840 --> 03:25:43,840
» Thank you. I I'm just uh thank you Mr.

4680
03:25:42,319 --> 03:25:45,680
Chair, but I'm just want to go back to

4681
03:25:43,840 --> 03:25:47,760
the affordable units. I know it's

4682
03:25:45,680 --> 03:25:52,319
development charges, but the affordable

4683
03:25:47,760 --> 03:25:55,760
units is 20% below market rent. That

4684
03:25:52,319 --> 03:25:59,200
that's what affordable is. So, and I

4685
03:25:55,760 --> 03:26:03,120
think after 20 years, it goes back up to

4686
03:25:59,200 --> 03:26:05,200
market rent. Is that not correct?

4687
03:26:03,120 --> 03:26:06,960
» Through the chair, I don't believe so

4688
03:26:05,200 --> 03:26:09,200
because the statutory increases would

4689
03:26:06,960 --> 03:26:10,399
apply. So, you can't just arbitrarily

4690
03:26:09,200 --> 03:26:12,720
change the units.

4691
03:26:10,399 --> 03:26:15,680
» No, no, no. I I know what I'm saying.

4692
03:26:12,720 --> 03:26:18,479
for 20 years it stays at uh affordable

4693
03:26:15,680 --> 03:26:21,840
housing which is 20% below

4694
03:26:18,479 --> 03:26:23,359
» Right is it 25

4695
03:26:21,840 --> 03:26:27,080
» Is it used to be 20 so I'm just

4696
03:26:23,359 --> 03:26:27,080
wondering when that changed

4697
03:26:27,520 --> 03:26:33,040
» Through the chair I don't believe that

4698
03:26:29,920 --> 03:26:36,720
it does it just commits them to that and

4699
03:26:33,040 --> 03:26:39,439
the the 20 it's using provincial um

4700
03:26:36,720 --> 03:26:42,239
bulletin provincial policy statement uh

4701
03:26:39,439 --> 03:26:44,080
tables so they have to meet that at the

4702
03:26:42,239 --> 03:26:46,560
time that they apply.

4703
03:26:44,080 --> 03:26:49,040
» Yeah, I I know. But what I'm what I'm

4704
03:26:46,560 --> 03:26:51,120
trying to understand is sorry, Mr.

4705
03:26:49,040 --> 03:26:53,120
Chair, but I'm trying to understand

4706
03:26:51,120 --> 03:26:54,960
because what everybody I talked to and

4707
03:26:53,120 --> 03:26:57,520
it was the developers, it's good for 20

4708
03:26:54,960 --> 03:26:58,960
years. They they keep the market or the

4709
03:26:57,520 --> 03:27:01,760
» The affordable housing rate

4710
03:26:58,960 --> 03:27:04,080
» Rate at for 20 years. After the 20

4711
03:27:01,760 --> 03:27:06,239
years, and yes, they get their increase

4712
03:27:04,080 --> 03:27:09,279
or whatever, but after 20 years, they

4713
03:27:06,239 --> 03:27:11,840
can put it back up to market value. So

4714
03:27:09,279 --> 03:27:16,760
what I'm asking is if that is the case

4715
03:27:11,840 --> 03:27:16,760
then why are we agreeing to 25 years

4716
03:27:17,200 --> 03:27:21,760
» Through the chair I I the the

4717
03:27:19,680 --> 03:27:24,319
development charges act requires 25

4718
03:27:21,760 --> 03:27:28,800
years so that's that's what's required

4719
03:27:24,319 --> 03:27:30,080
for the exemption and if that flipping

4720
03:27:28,800 --> 03:27:32,239
it flipping

4721
03:27:30,080 --> 03:27:34,160
» Sorry it doesn't necessarily have to be

4722
03:27:32,239 --> 03:27:36,720
31 specific units but as long as there's

4723
03:27:34,160 --> 03:27:39,840
31 units over the 25 years and that's

4724
03:27:36,720 --> 03:27:42,960
assuming that people move in and out um

4725
03:27:39,840 --> 03:27:46,560
that 31 years what 31 units would remain

4726
03:27:42,960 --> 03:27:49,439
but after that 25 years um it's

4727
03:27:46,560 --> 03:27:52,239
theoretically possible. Yes.

4728
03:27:49,439 --> 03:27:54,720
» Okay. So you you've explained it the DC

4729
03:27:52,239 --> 03:27:57,279
reduction it has to be 25 years

4730
03:27:54,720 --> 03:27:59,120
irregardless if it's 20 years but I'm

4731
03:27:57,279 --> 03:28:01,439
just having a hard time of giving them

4732
03:27:59,120 --> 03:28:03,680
the reduction on the affordable units if

4733
03:28:01,439 --> 03:28:05,200
after 20 years they're able to put it

4734
03:28:03,680 --> 03:28:07,120
back up to market value. That's what

4735
03:28:05,200 --> 03:28:08,560
that's what I'm where I'm going with it.

4736
03:28:07,120 --> 03:28:09,920
Council McNutton.

4737
03:28:08,560 --> 03:28:10,800
» Oh, no. I was just gonna

4738
03:28:09,920 --> 03:28:12,720
» Okay. Just

4739
03:28:10,800 --> 03:28:13,840
» Say similar that there's there's no

4740
03:28:12,720 --> 03:28:16,080
20-year restriction.

4741
03:28:13,840 --> 03:28:19,279
» That's good. Council H, did you have

4742
03:28:16,080 --> 03:28:22,960
another? No. Councilor Mayard,

4743
03:28:19,279 --> 03:28:24,479
» Thank you. So, just for clarity, and I I

4744
03:28:22,960 --> 03:28:26,000
did read through this, but not as

4745
03:28:24,479 --> 03:28:27,760
thoroughly maybe as I should have

4746
03:28:26,000 --> 03:28:32,479
because there was something else taking

4747
03:28:27,760 --> 03:28:35,200
my attentions. Um so that affordable is

4748
03:28:32,479 --> 03:28:37,439
that is that rate of affordability is

4749
03:28:35,200 --> 03:28:40,239
that set as of when we make this

4750
03:28:37,439 --> 03:28:42,720
agreement because we don't know right I

4751
03:28:40,239 --> 03:28:45,359
mean it it it could go up but you know

4752
03:28:42,720 --> 03:28:47,120
in the next 10 years

4753
03:28:45,359 --> 03:28:49,520
I I'm really worried about what's

4754
03:28:47,120 --> 03:28:51,359
happening. So if the if you know if

4755
03:28:49,520 --> 03:28:53,840
landlords you know if all of a sudden

4756
03:28:51,359 --> 03:28:56,560
the average rent or the market rent goes

4757
03:28:53,840 --> 03:28:59,760
down what happens to the affordable? Do

4758
03:28:56,560 --> 03:29:03,359
they slide with it? on a scale or is it

4759
03:28:59,760 --> 03:29:06,160
set when we do this? Like say say

4760
03:29:03,359 --> 03:29:07,920
regular rent is, you know, two grand and

4761
03:29:06,160 --> 03:29:09,920
whatever that works out to for the

4762
03:29:07,920 --> 03:29:14,640
affordable, but if that rent goes down

4763
03:29:09,920 --> 03:29:16,960
to 1,500 or a,000, you know, like we

4764
03:29:14,640 --> 03:29:18,239
don't know what's going to I just uh I

4765
03:29:16,960 --> 03:29:20,399
mean, we wouldn't have known anyways,

4766
03:29:18,239 --> 03:29:24,439
but I just think now in these times we

4767
03:29:20,399 --> 03:29:24,439
have to recognize that

4768
03:29:24,640 --> 03:29:28,160
» We could well be in a worldwide

4769
03:29:26,640 --> 03:29:30,080
recession. you know, it could be we

4770
03:29:28,160 --> 03:29:30,960
could be in a worldwide recession. So,

4771
03:29:30,080 --> 03:29:33,040
how

4772
03:29:30,960 --> 03:29:34,640
» And they won't get, you know, they won't

4773
03:29:33,040 --> 03:29:37,359
get that money for their

4774
03:29:34,640 --> 03:29:39,120
» Through the through the the chair. Um,

4775
03:29:37,359 --> 03:29:41,439
and the rent will be set the the

4776
03:29:39,120 --> 03:29:43,920
affordable units will be set at the the

4777
03:29:41,439 --> 03:29:46,080
rents at the time that they apply in

4778
03:29:43,920 --> 03:29:48,319
order to get the exemption. So, there

4779
03:29:46,080 --> 03:29:50,399
though any rent can go up at statutory

4780
03:29:48,319 --> 03:29:52,080
guideline every year. if they end up

4781
03:29:50,399 --> 03:29:56,000
having to scale down the market rent

4782
03:29:52,080 --> 03:29:58,560
units they may but um I don't know that

4783
03:29:56,000 --> 03:30:00,239
rents have declined in in with economic

4784
03:29:58,560 --> 03:30:02,800
decline I think that's just that's

4785
03:30:00,239 --> 03:30:03,680
supply and demand and free market

4786
03:30:02,800 --> 03:30:06,680
capitalism

4787
03:30:03,680 --> 03:30:06,680
» Y

4788
03:30:07,359 --> 03:30:11,040
um

4789
03:30:08,640 --> 03:30:13,480
» So the any further

4790
03:30:11,040 --> 03:30:15,500
counc

4791
03:30:13,480 --> 03:30:15,500
[clears throat]

4792
03:30:16,160 --> 03:30:19,200
um so I just want to get a little more

4793
03:30:17,680 --> 03:30:21,520
clarity around the connection charges

4794
03:30:19,200 --> 03:30:25,439
introduction because and I thought I had

4795
03:30:21,520 --> 03:30:28,640
it on my my iPad the actual bylaw uh

4796
03:30:25,439 --> 03:30:31,600
which isn't attached here uh but it's

4797
03:30:28,640 --> 03:30:34,319
pretty clear that there's uh a reduction

4798
03:30:31,600 --> 03:30:36,640
that's the bylaw says that that you must

4799
03:30:34,319 --> 03:30:39,040
do it. So how does that and and I'm

4800
03:30:36,640 --> 03:30:42,560
going to your question about the the

4801
03:30:39,040 --> 03:30:45,279
lame duck thing. I'm not sure that that

4802
03:30:42,560 --> 03:30:46,880
applies in this case

4803
03:30:45,279 --> 03:30:48,800
because it's a bylaw that's currently

4804
03:30:46,880 --> 03:30:50,479
existing.

4805
03:30:48,800 --> 03:30:52,319
through the chair. I think yeah, I think

4806
03:30:50,479 --> 03:30:55,120
that's what we clarified is that the the

4807
03:30:52,319 --> 03:30:58,720
connection bylaw requires it. Yeah.

4808
03:30:55,120 --> 03:31:00,960
» But how to determine the eligibility for

4809
03:30:58,720 --> 03:31:03,279
the 30 uh 30%

4810
03:31:00,960 --> 03:31:06,479
» Rebate after occupancy.

4811
03:31:03,279 --> 03:31:08,479
» Um that definition is what's incorrect

4812
03:31:06,479 --> 03:31:10,560
and needs to be amended. It doesn't

4813
03:31:08,479 --> 03:31:12,239
apply to this particular development or

4814
03:31:10,560 --> 03:31:14,479
any future development that wants to

4815
03:31:12,239 --> 03:31:15,439
come forward before the bylaw is is

4816
03:31:14,479 --> 03:31:17,671
amended.

4817
03:31:15,439 --> 03:31:21,239
» Yeah. Okay. I'm good. All right.

4818
03:31:17,671 --> 03:31:21,239
[snorts] Councelor Pal,

4819
03:31:21,600 --> 03:31:29,520
» If that went back to them guaranteed 20

4820
03:31:26,399 --> 03:31:34,359
years, then they would have to pay the

4821
03:31:29,520 --> 03:31:34,359
development charges, would they not?

4822
03:31:34,640 --> 03:31:39,040
» Through the chair, they would, but I

4823
03:31:36,479 --> 03:31:41,680
don't know. And the reason why he asked

4824
03:31:39,040 --> 03:31:44,560
that question, you know, it's kind of

4825
03:31:41,680 --> 03:31:46,239
like looking into a crystal ball, but

4826
03:31:44,560 --> 03:31:49,439
hopefully

4827
03:31:46,239 --> 03:31:52,160
as we move along through the years,

4828
03:31:49,439 --> 03:31:56,080
there's going to be other places that

4829
03:31:52,160 --> 03:31:58,160
come into that. So to give one developer

4830
03:31:56,080 --> 03:32:00,720
that are we going to do that with

4831
03:31:58,160 --> 03:32:04,160
everyone in the future so they don't

4832
03:32:00,720 --> 03:32:10,560
have to pay development fees because as

4833
03:32:04,160 --> 03:32:14,160
you go along and rentals go up in price

4834
03:32:10,560 --> 03:32:18,640
theirs will go up on the affordable when

4835
03:32:14,160 --> 03:32:21,520
they move out somebody else takes I I

4836
03:32:18,640 --> 03:32:24,080
sort of think we should be sticking with

4837
03:32:21,520 --> 03:32:26,399
a 20-year unless let them pay the

4838
03:32:24,080 --> 03:32:30,160
development charge. I think we're given

4839
03:32:26,399 --> 03:32:31,680
a big break as it is. Alice, go ahead

4840
03:32:30,160 --> 03:32:33,200
» Through the chair. The the development

4841
03:32:31,680 --> 03:32:36,720
charges come under provincial

4842
03:32:33,200 --> 03:32:40,000
legislation. So they that's the way it's

4843
03:32:36,720 --> 03:32:42,960
stipulated in the act. Uh and the

4844
03:32:40,000 --> 03:32:44,720
municipality then has to for an

4845
03:32:42,960 --> 03:32:46,880
exemption of development charges for

4846
03:32:44,720 --> 03:32:49,040
affordable units have that 25-year

4847
03:32:46,880 --> 03:32:52,000
agreement. As for reduction for the

4848
03:32:49,040 --> 03:32:55,040
market rent, that's that's uh that's a a

4849
03:32:52,000 --> 03:32:59,040
provincial matter. Um the connection

4850
03:32:55,040 --> 03:33:01,520
charges are unless, as I said, you

4851
03:32:59,040 --> 03:33:05,040
choose to to resend the bylaw together

4852
03:33:01,520 --> 03:33:07,120
is available to any developer with um

4853
03:33:05,040 --> 03:33:11,120
purpose-built affordable rental housing.

4854
03:33:07,120 --> 03:33:13,040
» So whether they sign for 20 or 25, it

4855
03:33:11,120 --> 03:33:14,800
doesn't matter what you're saying.

4856
03:33:13,040 --> 03:33:15,920
» Through the chair, that's correct.

4857
03:33:14,800 --> 03:33:17,200
» Councelor Hirs.

4858
03:33:15,920 --> 03:33:19,359
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to

4859
03:33:17,200 --> 03:33:21,520
quickly say 25 is better. And Mr.

4860
03:33:19,359 --> 03:33:24,000
Hersfield's prepared to guarantee

4861
03:33:21,520 --> 03:33:27,520
affordable rent for 25 years, not 20.

4862
03:33:24,000 --> 03:33:28,800
All the better. And he is. So, okay,

4863
03:33:27,520 --> 03:33:31,760
let's go.

4864
03:33:28,800 --> 03:33:34,760
» I'm going to uh call the vote. All in

4865
03:33:31,760 --> 03:33:34,760
favor?

4866
03:33:36,800 --> 03:33:43,120
» That carries. Thank you.

4867
03:33:39,439 --> 03:33:45,359
Um, Mayor Ferguson

4868
03:33:43,120 --> 03:33:46,560
Dundee, your resolution. I will turn the

4869
03:33:45,359 --> 03:33:47,600
floor over to you.

4870
03:33:46,560 --> 03:33:50,640
» And do you want to turn off councelor

4871
03:33:47,600 --> 03:33:52,000
Panel's mic while you're there?

4872
03:33:50,640 --> 03:33:54,160
» Thank you, [clears throat] Mr. Chair.

4873
03:33:52,000 --> 03:33:55,600
I'll um the dire

4874
03:33:54,160 --> 03:33:56,239
» Councelor McNutton wants to second it

4875
03:33:55,600 --> 03:33:59,120
for you.

4876
03:33:56,239 --> 03:34:02,880
» Okay. Yeah, I was going to get to that

4877
03:33:59,120 --> 03:34:05,600
director. Um McNichol is here um who may

4878
03:34:02,880 --> 03:34:07,520
be able to provide some questions. This

4879
03:34:05,600 --> 03:34:12,160
refers to a letter that's contained on

4880
03:34:07,520 --> 03:34:16,640
page uh 230 of today's agenda

4881
03:34:12,160 --> 03:34:18,239
um seeking support for the uh OSF

4882
03:34:16,640 --> 03:34:21,600
funding.

4883
03:34:18,239 --> 03:34:23,760
I'll read the um read this rather

4884
03:34:21,600 --> 03:34:29,520
lengthy

4885
03:34:23,760 --> 03:34:31,520
rather lengthy document. But um

4886
03:34:29,520 --> 03:34:33,680
uh whereas recent municipal

4887
03:34:31,520 --> 03:34:35,439
infrastructure funding programs by the

4888
03:34:33,680 --> 03:34:38,239
government of Canada and the province of

4889
03:34:35,439 --> 03:34:40,319
Ontario have tended to prioritize growth

4890
03:34:38,239 --> 03:34:41,920
related or housing enabling

4891
03:34:40,319 --> 03:34:46,200
infrastructure projects over

4892
03:34:41,920 --> 03:34:46,200
infrastructure renewal needs.

4893
03:34:46,720 --> 03:34:52,399
Um and whereas the government of Ontario

4894
03:34:49,600 --> 03:34:58,000
has regulated municipal infrastructure

4895
03:34:52,399 --> 03:35:00,399
asset management through Orag 588 uh-17

4896
03:34:58,000 --> 03:35:02,960
asset management planning for municipal

4897
03:35:00,399 --> 03:35:06,560
infrastructure under the infrastructure

4898
03:35:02,960 --> 03:35:08,080
for jobs and prosperity act 2015 and

4899
03:35:06,560 --> 03:35:10,239
whereas

4900
03:35:08,080 --> 03:35:12,080
municipal asset management plans and the

4901
03:35:10,239 --> 03:35:13,680
financial accountability office of

4902
03:35:12,080 --> 03:35:16,239
Ontario have identified that

4903
03:35:13,680 --> 03:35:18,479
municipalities have significant state of

4904
03:35:16,239 --> 03:35:20,880
good repair backlogs and renewal needs

4905
03:35:18,479 --> 03:35:22,880
for infrastructure.

4906
03:35:20,880 --> 03:35:24,880
And whereas the government of Ontario

4907
03:35:22,880 --> 03:35:28,399
doubled the Ontario Community

4908
03:35:24,880 --> 03:35:31,600
Infrastructure Fund, OSF, from 200

4909
03:35:28,399 --> 03:35:34,880
million per year to 400 million per year

4910
03:35:31,600 --> 03:35:37,120
for 2021 to 2026,

4911
03:35:34,880 --> 03:35:39,680
but has not publicly committed to

4912
03:35:37,120 --> 03:35:41,600
maintaining this level of funding beyond

4913
03:35:39,680 --> 03:35:44,319
2026.

4914
03:35:41,600 --> 03:35:46,479
And whereas the OSF has become a vital

4915
03:35:44,319 --> 03:35:48,479
indispensable resource for

4916
03:35:46,479 --> 03:35:50,080
municipalities, assisting them with

4917
03:35:48,479 --> 03:35:52,399
improving their asset management

4918
03:35:50,080 --> 03:35:55,520
programs and meeting community

4919
03:35:52,399 --> 03:35:57,520
preserving infrastructure renewal needs.

4920
03:35:55,520 --> 03:35:59,600
And whereas increased geopolitical

4921
03:35:57,520 --> 03:36:03,120
uncertainty is threatening economic

4922
03:35:59,600 --> 03:36:05,040
prosperity of Canada, Ontario, and every

4923
03:36:03,120 --> 03:36:07,279
municipality.

4924
03:36:05,040 --> 03:36:09,680
And whereas municipal infrastructure is

4925
03:36:07,279 --> 03:36:12,479
a key enabler and preserver of economic

4926
03:36:09,680 --> 03:36:15,520
prosperity. And whereas the Municipal

4927
03:36:12,479 --> 03:36:18,479
Finance Officers Association of Ontario,

4928
03:36:15,520 --> 03:36:20,960
MFOA, has heard from its members and

4929
03:36:18,479 --> 03:36:23,120
their municipalities concerns regarding

4930
03:36:20,960 --> 03:36:25,520
the potential erosion of existing

4931
03:36:23,120 --> 03:36:27,600
municipal infrastructure and thus

4932
03:36:25,520 --> 03:36:30,319
service levels in light of the ongoing

4933
03:36:27,600 --> 03:36:32,960
focus on housing enabling infrastructure

4934
03:36:30,319 --> 03:36:35,279
by grant funding programs.

4935
03:36:32,960 --> 03:36:37,120
Now therefore, be it resolved that the

4936
03:36:35,279 --> 03:36:40,080
Council of the Corporation of the County

4937
03:36:37,120 --> 03:36:42,640
of Prince Edwards supports MFOA's letter

4938
03:36:40,080 --> 03:36:44,640
to the Ministry of Infrastructure

4939
03:36:42,640 --> 03:36:46,960
requesting that the doubling of the

4940
03:36:44,640 --> 03:36:49,520
Ontario Community Infrastructure Fund be

4941
03:36:46,960 --> 03:36:53,200
made permanent in advance of the

4942
03:36:49,520 --> 03:36:55,279
allocations for the 2027 calendar year,

4943
03:36:53,200 --> 03:36:57,920
helping municipalities to continue

4944
03:36:55,279 --> 03:37:00,080
building housing enabling infrastructure

4945
03:36:57,920 --> 03:37:02,080
while preserving the economic value

4946
03:37:00,080 --> 03:37:04,560
provided by existing infrastructure.

4947
03:37:02,080 --> 03:37:06,560
ffstruure and that a copy of this

4948
03:37:04,560 --> 03:37:09,439
resolution be circulated to the

4949
03:37:06,560 --> 03:37:11,840
honorable Doug Ford, Premier of Ontario,

4950
03:37:09,439 --> 03:37:14,399
the Honorable Todd McCarthy, Minister of

4951
03:37:11,840 --> 03:37:16,000
Infrastructure, the Honorable Rob Flack,

4952
03:37:14,399 --> 03:37:19,520
Minister of Municipal Affairs and

4953
03:37:16,000 --> 03:37:22,239
Housing, the Honorable Peter Bethan

4954
03:37:19,520 --> 03:37:25,439
Falvi, Minister of Finance, Bay of

4955
03:37:22,239 --> 03:37:28,880
Quinty MPP, Tyler Alop, the Executive

4956
03:37:25,439 --> 03:37:30,800
Director of MFOA, Donna Herage, the

4957
03:37:28,880 --> 03:37:32,560
Association of Municipalities of

4958
03:37:30,800 --> 03:37:35,359
Ontario, AMO,

4959
03:37:32,560 --> 03:37:39,359
the Rural Ontario Municipal Association,

4960
03:37:35,359 --> 03:37:41,600
Roma, and all municipalities in Ontario.

4961
03:37:39,359 --> 03:37:44,720
And I'd also add the Eastern Ontario

4962
03:37:41,600 --> 03:37:48,560
Wardens Caucus to that list. And

4963
03:37:44,720 --> 03:37:50,319
Director McNichol is um a member of the

4964
03:37:48,560 --> 03:37:52,960
association

4965
03:37:50,319 --> 03:37:57,840
and um thinks this is a prudent move and

4966
03:37:52,960 --> 03:38:02,279
I agree. And B, what was the um

4967
03:37:57,840 --> 03:38:02,279
magnitude of the funding in 2026?

4968
03:38:03,040 --> 03:38:11,000
and provide that.

4969
03:38:06,720 --> 03:38:11,000
» Now I gota turn mine on. Thanks

4970
03:38:11,600 --> 03:38:15,600
» Adelina. Um I I it is significant. I

4971
03:38:14,319 --> 03:38:17,359
can't remember off the top of my head. I

4972
03:38:15,600 --> 03:38:19,760
did ask Ann if she could give me the

4973
03:38:17,359 --> 03:38:22,560
number and um really this supports

4974
03:38:19,760 --> 03:38:24,640
MFOA's advocacy and it lends the intent

4975
03:38:22,560 --> 03:38:26,399
is to lend the county's voice uh behind

4976
03:38:24,640 --> 03:38:28,800
the the resolution and send that

4977
03:38:26,399 --> 03:38:30,720
through. So, um, we definitely need

4978
03:38:28,800 --> 03:38:32,960
more, um, money for our core

4979
03:38:30,720 --> 03:38:36,399
infrastructure, um, and we need stable

4980
03:38:32,960 --> 03:38:38,160
funding. So, I, uh, I support, uh, this

4981
03:38:36,399 --> 03:38:40,800
resolution 100%.

4982
03:38:38,160 --> 03:38:44,080
» Thank you. Any further questions or

4983
03:38:40,800 --> 03:38:46,720
comments? Not seeing any. Motion's on

4984
03:38:44,080 --> 03:38:49,520
the floor. All in favor?

4985
03:38:46,720 --> 03:38:52,880
And that carries. Perfect.

4986
03:38:49,520 --> 03:38:58,600
No closed session. So, motion number

4987
03:38:52,880 --> 03:38:58,600
nine, St. Gan Nimman motion.

4988
03:38:58,720 --> 03:39:02,880
» Thank you, Mr. Chair. St. Gene Nimon

4989
03:39:00,800 --> 03:39:04,880
motion that this meeting now adjourn at

4990
03:39:02,880 --> 03:39:07,040
4:38 p.m.

4991
03:39:04,880 --> 03:39:10,200
» All in favor? And that carries. Thank

4992
03:39:07,040 --> 03:39:10,200
you, everybody.

4993
03:39:20,399 --> 03:39:23,399
» Yeah.

4994
03:39:23,760 --> 03:39:26,640
Um, nature.