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Hi, everyone. I guess we'll get started. Hopefully people can hear me. My name is Bud Dunham on the town manager in town. And I just thought I would go through and briefly introduce the process that we're following for the rest of the day. And then we'll invite TRT up and then we'll go around the table and do introductions, but just as a quick background and overview of what's going on. As most people know, the Board of Selectman issued a request for proposals for 56 acres of town commercial land.

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land, off Quaker Meeting House Road, in the so-called Sandwich Village Center, that's also referred to as the Golden Triangle.

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And so the way RFP processes work that municipalities across the state have to follow, we have to issue a public request for proposals.

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We have to identify in the RFP how any response we receive will be evaluated, if they are deemed responsive.

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and then ultimately the evaluation team reports back to the Board of

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Sleckman and so what you see before you is our evaluation team and a little bit

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later we'll go through and introduce everyone. It's important to note that the

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process we're following is spelled out in the RFP on pages 13 to 17 and the

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team is appointed by me and so it's a little bit different in the sense it's not

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not technically a public board or committee.

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So we didn't have to do it in public, but the board asked us to do these interviews in public to try to get information from the two proposers,

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Sockless Realty Trust and Clark Consulting LLC.

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So you'll probably hear us refer to them abbreviate in either TRT or Clark throughout the day.

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So, there's actually nine evaluation criteria that are spelled out in the request for proposals that after the interviews are done and after we do some more work, we'll have to rate each of the proposals on the nine different criteria.

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And then we'll provide that input back to the selectman.

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The selectmen have scheduled a meeting for this Thursday at 4 o'clock in town hall and that's one of the regular public meetings.

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We're not sure like how far we'll get today or what we'll be able to give them until after we go through our due diligence.

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But the board does have a meeting scheduled for Thursday at 4 this week.

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And then ultimately the selectman will make a final determination on any award of the RFP.

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And again, the board did ask us to conduct these in public, which is why we're doing it.

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Kathy's actually going to take some really brief minutes, just so we can fulfill that obligation.

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But just to give you another, again, this will be very brief, just a background on how we got to today.

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The RFP responses were due back on June 16th.

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After reviewing them, there was some additional information that the town wanted to receive to try to help clarify those.

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So, we requested some additional information from the two proposals on July 11th and those

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were due back on July 21st.

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Both proposals responded.

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The staff and the selectman looked at those and there were some additional questions as

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well.

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So, in August 1st, we sent another letter to the both Clark and the TRT and asked them just

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to focus when we got together on some of the additional questions, again, that we sent

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out on August 1st.

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So that's sort of how we got to today, maybe what I'll do first is we'll just go around the table and introduce ourselves on who's on the evaluation team

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And then we'll call TRT up and then then we can get started. So again, I'm but done. I'm on the town manager in Sandwich

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I'm John George EO from town council's office. I gave it Mason director of public health for the town of Sandwich

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Sam Jensen with the town of sandwich engineer department

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Paul Tilton, Director of Public Works.

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Patrick Ellis, Board of Selectment.

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Hey, Joey, SEIC.

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Susan James, Head

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Childs Director of Assessing.

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Michael DeWire, Finance Committee,

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and Doug Label, Assistant Town Manager.

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It's a little bit weird, because usually when we meet

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with Tom and his crew, it's usually pretty informal.

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And so we're going to try to keep it as informal as possible.

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I know there's tables and people and microphones.

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But in our goal, it's just to have that equal exchange

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of information like we do every time we've gotten

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together and the same is true with Clark so I just invite Tom and his crew up and then maybe we can just do some quick

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introductions there and then get going.

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With me, Thomas Cyclose.

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Anthony Cyclose, we also have a representative John Daly from Scout Development.

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With us today as well as Scott Hoseley from Borsley Whitman who has been with us through a year or more of this process.

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I just want to start off by really thanking you guys for putting in the time and submitting

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an RFP.

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I know a lot of work goes into it and then we've had the follow-up questions, a lot of

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work goes into that and there's probably only a handful of us who know how much time

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the three of you and a lot of us have spent over the last year either at Cape Cod Commission

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meetings and everything else and it really is a herculean task that you guys have undertaken

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in over the past year so we just want to thank you again for responding to the RFP and continuing

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to follow up. What we thought we'd ask each group to do is maybe just give a brief general

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overview of the proposal. Obviously we've read everything probably two, three times but brief overview

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of the proposal and then maybe once that's done we could focus on those questions from the August

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first letter.

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Roughly over the last year we have produced not only a response to

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this RFP but also the initial RFP that would have selected in the head

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commission. Thousands of pages of documentation, pages of documentation and

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included financial information, design information, engineering information, we

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have assisted the town in paying for consultants through that process. The bid that

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was submitted, the proposal that we submitted was to apply 16 acres of the town's land,

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our 16.75, whatever that breakdown is, and on that 16.75 acres, we're proposing 300,000

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square feet of either retail, office, or hotel type views. Just to give the board some

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Some indication, roughly the three plazas, Canterbury Heritage and Trade Winds, which

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Tom owns and has developed over the years, consists roughly of 167,000 feet of space.

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What we're proposing at 300,000 is less than twice what Tom currently owns and has developed.

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And the 300,000 square feet is roughly one-third of the proposal that was put on the table when

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and Tom proposed to develop the entire 56 acres of town on land.

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So we're roughly dealing with one third of that proposal

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in terms of square footage in terms of cost

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and things of that nature.

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So I really, we really don't have much to add to that.

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That's great.

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We'll be going through the listed questions in the issues

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in the August 1st letter.

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and I think the first related to contingencies going forward.

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Well, we had put I think two or three contingencies in the document in our supplemental response to you that you requested a few weeks back.

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We told you that we were willing to waive those contingencies, but that we would talk about some of those issues in the context of a purchase and sale agreement.

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Obviously, the contingency relative to limitations of use on the land, we understand that there are certain zoning limitations that the town cannot limit what another developer may want to do on the property if it's owned by another developer, because technically the board of appeals would have to allow use that is permitted under the town's zoning bylaws, whether by special permit, whether by

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right.

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The question that we had relative to the Cape Clark Commission development agreement

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when we met over the last year I think everybody came to the consensus of conclusion that

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a development agreement was the most appropriate course of action to fall. The original town

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document that was submitted talked about an RFP not an RFP but a land development agreement.

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to be entered into between the town and the developer as well as the development agreement

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to be entered in between the town, the developer, and the Cape Guard Commission.

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We're certainly not adverse.

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I know that that language changed and the subsequent RFP that was sent out.

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But we still believe that any land development agreement that would be entered into between

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the town and the developer would have to be consistent with the Cape Guard Commission's

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development agreement.

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After all, the town is intended to be a party to that three-way development agreement with

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the Cape Clive Commission and it would seem to make little sense if the town is in agreement

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with a three-way development agreement to propose a land development agreement that is inconsistent

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with the Cape Clive Commission's development three-party development agreement.

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So while we're not adverse to entering into a land development agreement with the town,

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believe that that land development agreement has to be consistent with the land development

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agreement, or the development three-party development agreement, with the K-QI commission

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presuming the town desires to participate in that three-way development agreement and

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I think that the consensus is that the town would want to be a body to that three-way development

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agreement with the K-QI commission.

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I'm not sure there was another issue which may no longer be an issue, but there was also

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a concern relative to the fact that there may be a need for easements over town roads.

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And there were some language in the easements, although we never got to that point when we

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We had our last meeting with the Board of Selection relative to how those easements would

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be fashioned, but there were at least two issues with those easements.

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One, we have by the town seeks to dictate the manner which hookups to any treatment plant

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although we're not convinced at this juncture that on the 16 acres that a treatment plant

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would be something that we would necessarily have to do.

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But if they were a treatment plant in the works, then we would want to see those easements

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in place.

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We would want to be able to make sure that it's viable and then not to make sure that

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it's viable.

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We have to know what we're able to secure for our payment from anybody who might want to

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tie into that particular plant under some of the contingencies that were proposed in the

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the easement document, the town was seeking to determine what those fees would be.

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I don't think that's a reasonable request.

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And then there was some other language that talked about the town, should the town ever

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require those easements to be moved for any reason, that the owners would be on whoever put

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in the pipes and things of that nature to be at a cost of that.

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And we think that's also an unreasonable request.

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And that may be it, if there's anything else in that item bud that you think I've missed.

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I think other item that was specified in the initial proposal, but then we clarified

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how to do with securing financing at standard rates and everyone agreed that I can be handled

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through the purchase and sale agreement and didn't have to be a contingency on the actual

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proposal.

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Well, of course, the cost of the land of 16 acres is substantially less than the cost

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that was originally proposed when the 56 acres was bid on.

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So I think the ability to finance that is, and the ability in fact to finance the $4 million

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was less than it was.

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Right.

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I think the next issue that was in the August 1st letter dealt with a detailed project budget,

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And it's, I know in your submissions, you had proposals on like three different phases

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of development and you specified what types of uses and the square footages for those

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uses.

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And then I think there were some general estimates on things like infrastructure cost and other

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parts of the budget.

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So I guess the question dealt more with a development budget, an accurate cost estimates on the different

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phases in more detail.

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Well, I guess, at this point, we're dealing with 16.75 acres of land, we're dealing with one particular phase.

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We are not discussing redevelopment of the three plazas.

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We are not discussing development of the remaining 40 somewhat acres of town on land.

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And as such, there might be, obviously, there would be phases within that 16.75 acres.

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And that would be determined by the interest of anyone to occupy that space.

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So for example, the way it would be approached is that we would solicit interest from parties

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whether they be retail, whether they be office, etc.

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And once we had a determination that the building could be constructed, that would suit those

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needs that building would be constructed, and I guess we would consider that phase one.

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If we had a tremendous amount of interest that would lend itself to constructing more

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than one building, then more than one building would be constructed in phase one.

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but until you know that you have occupants for the space.

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There's certainly no developer in their right mind is going to go out and build space unless

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they know that it's going to be occupied and no lender is going to finance the development

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of that space until such time as the lender has knowledge of leases and things of that

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nature. So, to be able to provide you with a detailed budget, I would say, is not doable.

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At this time, I believe we did provide you with detailed information from Tom's principal

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lender, TDBAC, also from Scout Development, who we had met with a button dug on more

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than one occasion to go through how a project of this nature gets developed and gets financed.

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And it would make no sense for us to give you specifics because the development can change.

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You know, we could propose an office building with 15,000 square feet and find out that there isn't a demand for an office building with 15,000 square feet, but we could have a demand for retail use in which event the nature of the building changes, the construction costs of the building changes and things of that nature.

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So, to give you numbers that this juncture would be meaningless, quite frankly, and to give

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numbers that then somebody would try to hold the stew down the line, makes no sense.

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And again, for now, I was just going to work down the list of questions, and then I'd

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open it up to the group if there were either follow-ups or other questions.

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The third issue that we identified in the letter was a detailed development plan, meaning

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a more explicit description of the proposed three-phase development plan.

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And I think you just touched on some of that,

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just basically that it would depend on

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that internal demand and users for filling those space

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obligations.

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And it's no longer, I think, when you refer to a three phase

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development plan, I think you were initially

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talking about redevelopment of the three plazas.

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You were talking about the 50 acres,

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or you were talking about the 16 acres.

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So at this juncture, all we're talking about is the 16.75 acres

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and obviously that would be what we would develop.

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There is no phasing or proposal that we would develop,

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redeveloped the plazas, the other vacant land,

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the 24 acres of vacant land.

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That's there if we are successful in the award

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of the 16.75 acres, that is where we will concentrate

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on development efforts initially.

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So it's essentially a one phase development

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with phases within that one phase.

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So the focus would be on the town land first before we

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build up the other.

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There's one follow-up question on that.

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I think in the initial submission, it estimated that

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that land would be looked at in approximately 10 years.

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But is it fair to say that it all depends on the demand for the use?

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And so if you found something sooner, like you were just saying,

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you're not trying to tie it to the other work.

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And so it would sort of be a standalone thing.

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And that's correct.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Kevin, hi.

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to conduct a financial benefits analysis as part of this evaluation process.

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And your proposal indicated a development in, I believe it said, the 10 to 12 year range.

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Is that a fair assumption for us to make for the townland?

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And the reason why I asked that is the real estate tax impact of

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This project is going to be critical to the town, especially given the fact that the purchase price on both proposals is quite low compared to the assess value.

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And so for us to conduct the financial benefits analysis, we need to have a reasonable expectation as to when that 16 acres will be put on the tax rolls.

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And then we can do some kind of a net present value analysis.

216
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So that was the focus, I think, of this particular question.

217
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What is a reasonable assumption for the town to make in terms of, and I understand

218
00:19:31,450 --> 00:19:36,330
we're going to be conservative here, but we need to know, are we talking about 10 to 12

219
00:19:36,330 --> 00:19:38,490
years as was stated in your proposal?

220
00:19:40,530 --> 00:19:46,850
Well, it's difficult to give a definitive concrete answer to that question because

221
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as you don't know what the interest in the land will be.

222
00:19:52,550 --> 00:19:54,290
The uses of the land will be.

223
00:19:55,210 --> 00:19:57,710
Originally we did propose a development

224
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over that period of time.

225
00:19:59,190 --> 00:20:00,790
I believe we have given you the numbers

226
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in terms of the tax revenues that would be generated

227
00:20:03,690 --> 00:20:05,890
by retail uses, so many square feet of revenues,

228
00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:08,430
so many square feet of office use.

229
00:20:08,830 --> 00:20:11,850
But again, we don't know what that mix is going to be.

230
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Right now, we'd love for it to be developed over a period of two or three years.

231
00:20:20,790 --> 00:20:27,510
But until you know what the market will dictate, you don't know how long it will take

232
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to develop the possible win.

233
00:20:31,490 --> 00:20:37,210
That possible win is that they have fell over as long as I have been in this town.

234
00:20:37,210 --> 00:20:42,770
And it's not generating a heck of a lot of tax revenue at this juncture.

235
00:20:43,050 --> 00:20:48,410
If a private developer acquires that land, obviously that private development will be paying

236
00:20:48,410 --> 00:20:51,150
real estate taxes on that property.

237
00:20:51,690 --> 00:20:57,710
And quite honestly, even though that's not pot, necessarily of this proposal, until there

238
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is a sewer solution to the much larger tract of land, that land doesn't have any value quite

239
00:21:06,430 --> 00:21:11,990
frankly at all, and I think that that may be one of the reasons why you saw the prices

240
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:16,270
that you saw in terms of the responses to the IRFP.

241
00:21:18,010 --> 00:21:25,430
So I guess the question for this evaluation committee remains that is what is the assumption

242
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:28,830
that we have to make given that the information that we just heard.

243
00:21:31,570 --> 00:21:41,930
And without, you know, we have to look at the four corners of what was submitted as part of this procurement process.

244
00:21:42,150 --> 00:21:45,770
We can't rely on information that may have been previously developed.

245
00:21:46,090 --> 00:21:55,070
We're now talking about 16.75 acres of the assessor that's going to need to know,

246
00:21:55,070 --> 00:21:59,530
So make certain assumptions about what the value of this to come is going to be,

247
00:21:59,710 --> 00:22:01,390
and when it's going to come on the tax rolls.

248
00:22:01,730 --> 00:22:07,910
And I guess my point is, based upon what you've submitted so far during this process,

249
00:22:10,540 --> 00:22:14,100
that you want to address this in terms of what you're thinking.

250
00:22:14,460 --> 00:22:20,880
Well, at this time, obviously, the first thing to go on the roll would be the land itself.

251
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:31,960
of not just the sale, which the sale, as it is, would be half the review in the process

252
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:38,520
by which it was awarded by that meaning that it would not necessarily match up with

253
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,760
arm's length, sales prices that have transacted in that area in the last few years, even with

254
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,360
the liabilities of the sewing and stuff in place, we definitely have basic rates that are

255
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:48,580
higher.

256
00:22:48,580 --> 00:22:56,880
So, the land would be valued and go on the tax will in conjunction with the next assessment date as big of commercial land.

257
00:22:58,420 --> 00:23:06,800
And we could do our analysis based off of that. Certainly, any possible, we could construct any type of scenarios on cost scheduling

258
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:13,700
to be great that as Kevin indicated, to build out to the three years, that feasibility remains the same.

259
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:22,080
But as we get further away from the present, of course, it will be more as it is to make

260
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,200
a good assumption.

261
00:23:23,540 --> 00:23:30,980
We can make solid assumptions, but there are going to be caveats in place for our typical

262
00:23:30,980 --> 00:23:36,740
living girls and other projects that new growth, other things of that nature.

263
00:23:36,740 --> 00:23:42,460
But right now, it's a STEM process, the land would come on for us, obviously.

264
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:50,860
And then, as each permit is issued in that year, we could do scenarios that start the

265
00:23:50,860 --> 00:23:55,640
construction in five years at a certain percentage, I mean, certainly any more information

266
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:56,320
would be helpful.

267
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:04,480
I certainly understand the drafts involved, but right now, it's kind of from the assessing

268
00:24:20,030 --> 00:24:39,480
I'm looking forward to seeing what the future is going to bring, you know, their tax pay is over here, but what is the vision, for instance, if you purchase the property, what is the vision for first building to be done as it all tell?

269
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:44,560
All going to be for coming in for us, retail stores, or office building, etc.

270
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:53,560
I think that we have had an expression of interest, although not signed letters of intent

271
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,880
because people don't sign letters of intent until you have permits in place, and is some

272
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:03,580
realistic idea that there's going to be a shovel on the ground within some specific period

273
00:25:03,580 --> 00:25:03,960
of time.

274
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:14,220
We have had expressions of interest for about 100,000 square feet of space and whether that's

275
00:25:14,220 --> 00:25:26,020
a retail space from pharmacy concern, whether it's entertainment, concern, medical, we've

276
00:25:26,020 --> 00:25:32,600
been contacted by medical providers who have an interest, you know, for as much as 50,000

277
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,220
square feet of space for a medical provider.

278
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,800
So we have expressions of interest that would lend itself

279
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,780
to the development of $100,000, maybe $150,000,

280
00:25:43,980 --> 00:25:46,240
square feet of that 300.

281
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,420
So you would be, should those expressions of interest

282
00:25:51,860 --> 00:25:55,500
come to fruition and result in a letter of intent

283
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:59,720
in a commitment to occupy the space,

284
00:25:59,940 --> 00:26:01,800
then you would roughly be developing

285
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:09,040
having half of what you're projected square footages within as quickly as you could with the buildings up.

286
00:26:09,780 --> 00:26:14,320
Well, I'm familiar with the hotel chain that you're looking to bring you to school.

287
00:26:15,820 --> 00:26:16,260
How

288
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:27,230
much acreage would they need to put a hotel and how many rooms would they be doing hypothetically?

289
00:26:27,710 --> 00:26:32,270
I think you're talking somewhere and John may correct me if I'm wrong,

290
00:26:32,270 --> 00:26:36,870
but we're talking maybe 120 to 150 rooms in an old town.

291
00:26:41,530 --> 00:26:42,790
Did you say 150?

292
00:26:43,050 --> 00:26:44,250
120 to 150.

293
00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:47,430
Five acres of land.

294
00:26:47,870 --> 00:26:48,310
Five acres.

295
00:26:55,410 --> 00:26:58,410
The next question we had relates to regional permitting,

296
00:26:58,430 --> 00:27:00,030
and I should probably explain this one a little.

297
00:27:00,250 --> 00:27:03,430
I know through our efforts over the last year

298
00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:05,590
with the Cape Cod Commission looking at the development

299
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:09,790
agreement process on the last time we issued an RFP,

300
00:27:11,770 --> 00:27:13,050
I think it's fair to say

301
00:27:13,050 --> 00:27:18,430
on both of our behalf that sometimes some of the theories change about what's the fastest

302
00:27:18,430 --> 00:27:22,470
way to get permits through the commission and lack of a better word of the different

303
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:23,510
ways to skin a cat.

304
00:27:23,870 --> 00:27:29,710
So one of the things that we've been hearing from the commission more recently is a belief

305
00:27:29,710 --> 00:27:33,030
that they might be able to do a growth incentive zone process faster.

306
00:27:33,650 --> 00:27:38,670
So really all this question related to, I know in your RFP, you specified a development agreement,

307
00:27:39,670 --> 00:27:43,990
would you be open to either the other two kinds of permitting through the commission

308
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:48,630
which would either be a growth incentive zone or a normal development of regional impact

309
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:49,870
or DRI process?

310
00:27:50,670 --> 00:27:54,810
Well, there really is a much difference between the development agreement and the normal

311
00:27:54,810 --> 00:27:58,790
DRI process, all of the information that you would have to submit for a development agreement

312
00:27:58,790 --> 00:28:01,770
you would also be submitting for the DRI process.

313
00:28:01,770 --> 00:28:08,310
us. The GIZ process is something that we haven't really spent a lot of time delving

314
00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:15,290
into because if you recall, the project went in its initial conception when we were

315
00:28:15,290 --> 00:28:24,250
talking the 56 acres of land. The GIZ process did not lend itself to a project that had

316
00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:29,910
a meeple submitter. And as you know, when the 56 acres of land was being proposed with

317
00:28:29,910 --> 00:28:37,370
the sewer treatment plant and things of that nature, the amoeba filing was submitted.

318
00:28:37,650 --> 00:28:43,310
So that project at that time would not qualify for the GIC process.

319
00:28:43,470 --> 00:28:48,890
By definition, of the regulations that the Cape Guard Commission has in place, or the Cape

320
00:28:48,890 --> 00:28:55,870
Guard Commission to change those regulations, I suppose, then you could have a project of

321
00:28:55,870 --> 00:28:58,430
that size that would lend itself to the GIZ process.

322
00:28:59,210 --> 00:29:02,650
To be frank, I don't know whether or not the 16 Acres

323
00:29:02,650 --> 00:29:06,570
proposal would be something that would require a MEPA

324
00:29:06,570 --> 00:29:06,970
filing.

325
00:29:07,310 --> 00:29:10,370
There are various things that trigger MEPA filings,

326
00:29:10,510 --> 00:29:14,170
including traffic, sewage, wastewater, flows.

327
00:29:15,890 --> 00:29:17,630
From an acreage perspective, it may not.

328
00:29:17,930 --> 00:29:21,090
It may be a larger acreage that triggers it.

329
00:29:21,090 --> 00:29:31,450
But we're certainly amenable to discuss that option, no question, if it's a viable alternative.

330
00:29:32,510 --> 00:29:36,570
My recollection was, however, when we talked about this the last time, and notwithstanding

331
00:29:36,570 --> 00:29:44,610
the fact that the MEPA had disqualified us from the GIZ process, I think we were told at

332
00:29:44,610 --> 00:29:47,130
that time that the development agreement would be a much quicker process.

333
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:50,170
So I don't know what's changed since that time.

334
00:29:50,170 --> 00:29:56,170
but certainly we're amenable to falling whenever process will lead to the more

335
00:29:56,170 --> 00:29:57,770
expeditious development of the process.

336
00:29:58,930 --> 00:29:59,910
Just to back up what.

337
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:29,960
Kevin said, for everyone's benefit, when we went through the process, last time we were considering both the GIs or development agreement. And the commission did confirm after. Kevin brought it up at a couple of meetings that if a Meep of filings required, you couldn't do a GIs. And so, I think some of the things the commission have talked to us is because you could you do a phased in GIZ where possibly you wouldn't trip Meep of thresholds. But again, like you said, as long as open and amenable, you know, if it could work and we understand why.

338
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:35,220
If it can't with that extra filing, it would create a lot more hurdles and actually extend the time, not reduce it.

339
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:42,560
So, I think just the last question relates to project financing.

340
00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:49,440
And I should stress that we really appreciate the fact that when the first letters were sent out,

341
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:56,280
I think on mid July, we got together so you could help explain Whisk out on how some of the financing works.

342
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,740
I know your submission on August, July 21st.

343
00:30:59,740 --> 00:31:05,380
I went into a lot more detail about how financing typically works for these type projects.

344
00:31:05,580 --> 00:31:13,440
And I think it's fair to say that both TRT and Clark's proposals, I think are sort of stating

345
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,140
the same things that you can get certain letters from different lending institutions saying,

346
00:31:18,420 --> 00:31:21,180
you know, you've been a good customer in the past, we'll consider it in the future.

347
00:31:21,460 --> 00:31:27,320
Or, you know, once you get certain permits, you know, it's more likely than you could get

348
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,000
a stronger letter of commitment on financing.

349
00:31:31,060 --> 00:31:36,720
So we understand that, and I do think like what Scout submitted went into a lot more detail

350
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,500
than the initial submission, so that was good to get that further understanding.

351
00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:45,980
So maybe if we could just go through and just talk a little bit about the financing just

352
00:31:45,980 --> 00:31:53,000
on how you see it happening, and different ways about how things might be tied to permits

353
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,340
or other things.

354
00:31:54,340 --> 00:32:03,220
Well, I think we sort of laid it out and sculpted us in laying out just how these things

355
00:32:03,220 --> 00:32:16,580
work. But as I suggested earlier on, and I think Lisa from TD is here as well, the way

356
00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:21,340
these things typically work, and then you could even take a complex like Cana Berry Plaza

357
00:32:21,340 --> 00:32:29,300
are heritage is that you go in, you borrow enough money to build the building that you can

358
00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:36,440
demonstrate to the lender that will be occupied and then once that building is occupied and you have a

359
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:43,240
cash flow stream, you can demonstrate to the lender if you have other prospective lesses in place and you can leverage

360
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:49,240
that existing building because that building and its tenants in place has added significant value to the land,

361
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,980
you leverage that building and then you move on to the next building.

362
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:57,520
So, it's not a scenario where you would go out and you would build six buildings on a piece

363
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,720
of property, seven or eight or ten or twelve million dollars, and hope that people will come.

364
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:04,560
You know, it's not like the field of dreams.

365
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,300
So, if you build that they will come, well that isn't necessarily so.

366
00:33:09,820 --> 00:33:13,400
So, and no lender in the right line is going to loan you twelve million dollars and hope

367
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:19,000
that you're going to be able to fill up a building, you know, six buildings down the road.

368
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:26,720
So, we envision it as Tom has envisioned it throughout the period of time that he has developed the three plazas that he has owned.

369
00:33:27,060 --> 00:33:32,060
He has gone in, he has borrowed a sufficient amount of money to construct a building where he had tenants in place.

370
00:33:32,420 --> 00:33:35,460
He doesn't build buildings unless he knows he has people that are going to occupy them.

371
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:42,440
And then you use the value and leverage that you have and the increased value in the land to move on to the next building.

372
00:33:46,020 --> 00:33:52,120
So that's essentially how we envision it working, I think that's consistent with the information

373
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,440
that you've got from TD back.

374
00:33:53,780 --> 00:33:56,380
I think it's also consistent with the information you've got from SCO.

375
00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:05,980
Kevin, I know that the proposal that was submitted was only for the 16 acres,

376
00:34:05,980 --> 00:34:11,360
but it's been pretty clear that TRT intends to redevelop the three classes

377
00:34:21,140 --> 00:34:27,760
The RFP relates to the 16.75 acres. Currently, that's the only thing that we're talking about

378
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:34,800
developing the 16.75 acres in response to the RFP that the town submitted. We told you

379
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:40,780
that we would develop that 16.75 acres before we undertook to consider redevelopment of the

380
00:34:40,780 --> 00:34:46,500
plasas are the construction on the 24-8 is a vacant land that the town has and you know

381
00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:52,720
quite frankly maybe the plasas never get redeveloped, maybe the 24 acres of land becomes an area

382
00:34:52,720 --> 00:35:02,940
for a private tidal vibe system, maybe it becomes a tree farm, who knows, but what we've

383
00:35:02,940 --> 00:35:07,920
submitted in our proposal is based upon the 16.75 acres and there's no point in talking

384
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,400
about redeveloping the three plasas are developing the 24 acres.

385
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,360
You're interested in, you are 16.75 acres and that's what we're going to do.

386
00:35:16,460 --> 00:35:18,980
So what is that project like?

387
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:21,560
Is it in here?

388
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,520
60 million dollars.

389
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:48,100
8.5 of the RFP response?

390
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,040
The answer to the 16.758

391
00:35:57,750 --> 00:36:01,790
data June 16th, 2008.

392
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:48,260
Can you just show us where that I think that this has, this item has the entry, the square

393
00:36:48,260 --> 00:36:59,360
the units and then the monotony tax value looks like the total value is 61.618875.

394
00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:01,700
But I'm talking about the absolute amount of budget.

395
00:37:03,620 --> 00:37:10,320
It's impossible to give you a number on the actual development budget because we don't know

396
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:16,920
until the lack of response and we know where we're going to fill what that development budget will be.

397
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:27,860
If you need a 10,000 square foot pharmacy, let's say, for example, you'd know what that would cost because those folks have those numbers down to the science.

398
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:36,260
But we don't know whether or not we're going to be building retail space, office space, its market-driven, and that will dictate the numbers.

399
00:37:36,260 --> 00:37:43,180
It seems to me, though, the last time that we went through this, you know, you provided this information on

400
00:37:43,180 --> 00:37:50,180
waste order, infrastructure, carbonating, including mitigation payments, et cetera,

401
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:56,660
as of the others, to come up with, you know, an estimate of what the project was going to cost,

402
00:37:56,900 --> 00:37:59,020
and that was a cost of both 56 acres.

403
00:37:59,020 --> 00:38:06,040
But we're looking for now is a budget for the development of 16 acres.

404
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:06,960
That's over the answer.

405
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:13,520
Well, you can roughly tell you that your typical construction cost is somewhere in the same $200

406
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:14,460
per square foot.

407
00:38:17,580 --> 00:38:23,840
And if it exceeds $250 per square foot project, no longer becomes a viable entity.

408
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:38,900
We don't necessarily have a true sewer treatment component at this point in time, not do we necessarily have three miles or two miles of growth that was proposed when the original 56 acres of land was on the table.

409
00:38:39,860 --> 00:38:50,140
So those numbers have no relevance really to this proposal. This proposal is basically, there will obviously be some parking lots that would have to be paved in things of that nature.

410
00:38:50,140 --> 00:38:55,440
In that information, Patrick will probably be more familiar with those numbers than any of us.

411
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:06,160
But essentially, we fail that the construction costs relative to the development is roughly between $250 per square.

412
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,980
I have a question about the square footage also in the age 12.

413
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:18,360
If you're unclear what the market demand is going to be, how did you formulate those square footage for

414
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,480
percent numbers for town, put a town land element of $50,000

415
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,660
for office, $70,000 for retail, $30,000 for residential.

416
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,540
You're telling us you're not clear what the

417
00:39:28,540 --> 00:39:29,840
marvelous demands will be?

418
00:39:30,580 --> 00:39:32,640
How many do you come to those numbers?

419
00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:36,760
As I understand that these were what we were hoping

420
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,320
on proposing would be bills based upon the inquiries

421
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,620
that we've had, but again, it's all speculation.

422
00:39:43,260 --> 00:39:46,520
You don't know what you're going to build until people

423
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,780
indicate that they want to walk in private space.

424
00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:51,980
Some of us people are waiting for years.

425
00:39:52,540 --> 00:39:55,520
I mean, Thomas had the tenants in existing and existing

426
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,240
clauses that have been looking for room to expand.

427
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,640
And they can't expand because there's no room to

428
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,000
expand, and he can't give them anymore space in his existing

429
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:06,380
clauses.

430
00:40:06,700 --> 00:40:10,580
So there was some discussion relative to how much space some of his

431
00:40:10,580 --> 00:40:13,840
existing tenants would need in terms of relocating to another

432
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:22,040
But these would merely, you know, certain assumptions and projections that we hope because

433
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,780
originally we were talking about multi-story buildings where you would have retail on

434
00:40:26,780 --> 00:40:31,460
the first floor as they were designed in that fashion with retail on the first, maybe

435
00:40:31,460 --> 00:40:35,800
office on the second, maybe residential on the third, and things of that nature.

436
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:43,840
So these were, and this was sort of, you know, the best case scenario, I guess, if you will.

437
00:40:45,180 --> 00:40:51,840
In terms of development, and Ed probably looks at some of these same things when he has to assess a piece of property.

438
00:40:52,180 --> 00:40:58,280
Highest and best use. Well, there's certainly highest and best use based upon what we would like to be able to build.

439
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:04,320
But again, none of us have a crystal ball, so it's impossible for us to determine precisely, you know,

440
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:10,500
How much space they'll be, how much retail space they'll be, and how much parking will be needed.

441
00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:15,440
How much roadway will be needed, it really depends on what has to be built.

442
00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:20,940
What you have a tenant requesting to be built to occupy that space.

443
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:31,990
I have a question, I might have to step back.

444
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:36,310
this committee and certainly the town and the board of select committee here to shake

445
00:41:36,310 --> 00:41:42,810
part of the future of sandwiched through leveraging your real estate and I'm

446
00:41:42,810 --> 00:41:47,810
understanding that in a quote until you know the market you cannot really put

447
00:41:47,810 --> 00:41:54,510
together a pro forma however upon sale whether or not it's a three-party DA or

448
00:41:54,510 --> 00:42:00,420
a two-party DA does a marketing plan just exist as it just come up because it's

449
00:42:00,420 --> 00:42:08,140
unusual for me to understand that a competent developer would enter into even

450
00:42:08,140 --> 00:42:13,280
this conversation with having some marketing plan, not architectural drawings,

451
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:20,100
not even a perfect picture of infrastructure, but it's almost like you're

452
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:26,880
asking on faith we can build this out but your hope is on an assumption it could

453
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,320
to take two to three years, a 200 bucks a square foot,

454
00:42:29,500 --> 00:42:30,960
200,000 square foot, excuse me,

455
00:42:31,340 --> 00:42:33,920
wish it was $200 a square foot, or 10 years.

456
00:42:34,500 --> 00:42:37,100
So I'm trying to reconcile with myself,

457
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,860
prior to your prior comments and if you can help me

458
00:42:40,860 --> 00:42:41,900
with that, I appreciate it.

459
00:42:43,060 --> 00:42:47,720
Again, I think my comments are accurate for anybody

460
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:51,400
that's been involved and I have to defer to Tom

461
00:42:52,060 --> 00:42:54,360
and Anthony and the development consultants

462
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:55,620
that they have.

463
00:42:55,620 --> 00:43:03,000
We have paid for market studies, which the town has taken advantage of, and there are

464
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:08,900
certain things that have been indicated would be what likely could go there.

465
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:17,980
And we suspect that after the land is developed, that we may do some additional market studies.

466
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:24,260
But we do have folks that have been waiting for as much as seven or eight years in existing

467
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:31,540
in, who have been looking for a place to go that have communicated with us, that they

468
00:43:31,540 --> 00:43:41,220
would have an interest in going into a new retail development, or office development, if

469
00:43:41,220 --> 00:43:45,760
you were talking about medical offices or something of that nature, we've also had inquiries

470
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:55,060
from assisted living developers who have an interest in, you know, maybe constructing

471
00:43:55,060 --> 00:44:00,860
an assisted living complex. But again, we don't have a crystal ball, so it's difficult

472
00:44:00,860 --> 00:44:06,140
to give you a specific number. You know, we could come in here and we could say, sure,

473
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:12,180
you know, we're going to build, you know, a hundred thousand square feet of office space

474
00:44:12,180 --> 00:44:18,260
that we find out that there's already 20,000 square feet of empty office space in the town.

475
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:22,460
So what's the point of building 50,000 more square feet if you've got 20 in the town

476
00:44:22,460 --> 00:44:23,460
that are already vacant?

477
00:44:23,980 --> 00:44:26,320
So it really is market driven.

478
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:37,500
I mean, like it or not, it really is a function of the market and take a development such as

479
00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:39,020
Ashby Commons, for example.

480
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,440
Okay, I mean I moved to sandwich in 1977.

481
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,800
Ashby Commons was a couple of buildings,

482
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:46,500
I think, Bobby Burns in a piece of place.

483
00:44:46,980 --> 00:44:50,280
Well, Ashby Commons is now going to one of its largest phases

484
00:44:50,580 --> 00:44:52,260
of residential development.

485
00:44:52,580 --> 00:44:55,600
Okay, and that's 30 some odd years late.

486
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:56,560
And why?

487
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,260
Because it's market-driven.

488
00:44:58,720 --> 00:44:59,720
They have developed.

489
00:45:00,740 --> 00:45:07,540
Office, and now some residential, additional residential, as they've had apartments before, that they have

490
00:45:07,540 --> 00:45:12,960
developed it over a period of 30 years, because the market didn't call for buildings to be built

491
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:18,820
when there was no demand. So now there's a demand for that type of housing on the Cape, and they're

492
00:45:18,820 --> 00:45:24,300
developing. So here you have a development that's, I think, that's been pretty successful, and it has

493
00:45:24,300 --> 00:45:30,760
developed over the 30-year period of time and, you know, again, it driven by

494
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,640
Martin. Just a follow-up question, I certainly wasn't implying that any

495
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:41,220
developer or anyone would build on spec. Just another question, I'm

496
00:45:41,220 --> 00:45:46,460
prevention market focus and I guess I have a question, some of your materials on

497
00:45:46,460 --> 00:45:53,760
scout hotels, there was some narrative that the target,

498
00:45:54,300 --> 00:46:00,760
ten target customer would be young professionals.

499
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,300
So I'm going to say 24 to 35, and then seniors,

500
00:46:05,860 --> 00:46:08,980
and that won't put a large impact on schools.

501
00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:14,520
But on the segment or the cohort for the young professionals,

502
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,300
and I'm not sure a 24 to 35 is right.

503
00:46:18,380 --> 00:46:19,220
Where are the jobs?

504
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:22,620
Have we done a study on they can live and pay rent,

505
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,800
or maybe there's a fee ownership that needs to work out?

506
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:27,420
Where are they going to find jobs?

507
00:46:28,420 --> 00:46:32,100
Has anyone looked at that as part of the smell of the plant?

508
00:46:35,780 --> 00:46:39,840
Well, we've been doing, I guess,

509
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,240
Cape Hought has been doing its best

510
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:44,560
to drive out of its young professionals over the years.

511
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,820
in this sum hope that we might be able to bring some of these young professionals back.

512
00:46:50,940 --> 00:46:56,700
You have professional offices on the Cape, whether they be lawyers, accountants, things

513
00:46:56,700 --> 00:46:57,340
of that nature.

514
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:03,420
My son just moved to the town of Mashby because, quite frankly, you can afford to live

515
00:47:03,420 --> 00:47:08,960
in the town of Sandwich because of the tax rate that burdened that we have here in this town.

516
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,140
And he can live much more cheaply in the town of Mashby.

517
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,620
He didn't move off-cape because he was fortunate enough to have a dad to have a business.

518
00:47:18,300 --> 00:47:21,880
So he was able to move into dad's business, but there are a lot of medical.

519
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:30,260
We have three major hospital type concerns on the Cape, whether it be Cape Got Hospital,

520
00:47:30,420 --> 00:47:32,700
whether it be FAMO Hospital, Spawning Rehab.

521
00:47:33,180 --> 00:47:39,380
There are a number of those types of businesses that can attract young professionals.

522
00:47:39,380 --> 00:47:55,420
So you have a, you have a memo of physicians concerned that has brought, you know, a number of physicians to Cape Cod to provide general, general practitioner care to the residents of the Cape.

523
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:08,680
And I think if I'm not mistaken, we've got, you know, an upper Cape that is talked about developing, you know, certain internet and other type of open.

524
00:48:10,900 --> 00:48:21,320
The connections that we hope will bring the types of businesses to an area such as this that would attract young professionals so that we don't have to drive them forward to the other side of the bridge.

525
00:48:24,370 --> 00:48:25,330
Thank you.

526
00:48:25,690 --> 00:48:30,050
Kevin, I have a question on page 12 of your proposal.

527
00:48:31,410 --> 00:48:36,530
I can't take any pride in authorship because I might have to defer.

528
00:48:36,530 --> 00:48:42,750
The total cost I'm looking at the box at the bottom is $15 million, $15 million,

529
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:47,510
which is the total infrastructure and mitigation fee cost.

530
00:48:48,890 --> 00:48:58,230
8 million is waste water, so can you explain to us how the waste water solution is going to work here?

531
00:48:58,330 --> 00:49:03,230
Is that 8 million just for the 16 acres, or is that the estimate for constructing

532
00:49:03,230 --> 00:49:09,510
the treatment plan, just that I believe was intended to serve the existing

533
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:16,170
facility, the existing developments plus the townland, where does that $8 million

534
00:49:16,170 --> 00:49:17,450
come from?

535
00:49:17,610 --> 00:49:22,410
I believe that that's the cost of what it would cost to develop a sewer treatment

536
00:49:22,410 --> 00:49:26,630
plan when we were talking about developing a sewer treatment plan that would serve

537
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:28,330
us the 56 acres of land.

538
00:49:28,330 --> 00:49:33,910
We're not convinced that we need to build a sewage treatment plant to service the 16 acres of land

539
00:49:33,910 --> 00:49:37,110
And if we did it would be substantially less than

540
00:49:37,110 --> 00:49:41,410
$8 million because we're not we're not talking about a million plus

541
00:49:41,410 --> 00:49:48,270
Squiff feet of space and we don't have all the road that was involved in that original proposal

542
00:49:48,270 --> 00:49:55,990
To construct because that row was servicing the 56 a capacity of land and the traffic mitigation numbers were numbers that came

543
00:49:55,990 --> 00:50:01,170
I think largely from the Cape Coy Commission based upon the traffic, that a million square

544
00:50:01,170 --> 00:50:03,290
feet of space was going to generate.

545
00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:11,650
Unfortunately, a lot of these numbers do relate because we're trying to give a general

546
00:50:11,650 --> 00:50:17,890
picture of the overall, what we hope to be an overall redevelopment of the Golden Triangle,

547
00:50:18,310 --> 00:50:24,390
but a lot of these numbers in terms of those mitigation costs are far and excessive what

548
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:29,490
they would need to be for 16.75 acres because we may not even need a

549
00:50:29,490 --> 00:50:36,210
16.75 acres. So if you go forward and develop the townland first, the 16

550
00:50:36,210 --> 00:50:41,650
acres, what's the wastewater solution? We're still working on that. We

551
00:50:41,650 --> 00:50:46,850
understand that they're up, you know, potentially some title five alternatives

552
00:50:46,850 --> 00:50:50,950
whether it be new technology or whatever that may be available. You know,

553
00:50:50,950 --> 00:51:04,110
depending upon what your flows are going to be, your flows are dictated by your uses and it may be entirely possible to be able to develop what you want to develop on that 16.7.5.

554
00:51:04,250 --> 00:51:07,790
But you're not talking about on-site, are you?

555
00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:11,800
Title 5s are always typically on-site.

556
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:13,360
So that's what you're talking about?

557
00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:18,520
We haven't ferred in that issue of the leak.

558
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,260
Yeah, if I could just follow that, Kevin.

559
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:27,940
Just your page three of the submittal speaks to the construction of the treatment plant

560
00:51:27,940 --> 00:51:29,500
as was previously proposed.

561
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:34,380
That's why I was going to follow up and say, okay, you're saying you don't need it for the 16th.

562
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:39,720
Have conversations been had with DEP relative to that because there's a couple issues that jump up.

563
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:44,700
One, it's in a impaired water shed, so there's issues that are associated with that.

564
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:50,940
As far as permitting and design, and also as far as the issue of common ownership of land

565
00:51:50,940 --> 00:51:55,360
in Title V, and looking at the total flow associated with the total ownership of land.

566
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,120
That's something DEP would be looking at.

567
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:04,060
Well, this 16 acres is a totaling separate and distinct parcel land from any other parcel

568
00:52:04,060 --> 00:52:04,940
land that Tom owns.

569
00:52:04,940 --> 00:52:14,420
Okay. Just that whatever you know process that you proceed but they do dig into that issue.

570
00:52:14,740 --> 00:52:22,460
This is you know this is something that has come up since the we submitted our proposal.

571
00:52:22,620 --> 00:52:26,940
We're obviously working closely with with our team and closely waiting to determine whether

572
00:52:26,940 --> 00:52:32,780
or not you know there are all term ended up solutions to a secret plan because we're not sure

573
00:52:32,780 --> 00:52:40,780
than a 16.75 acre fossil land and what you can develop on 16.75 acres would generate the

574
00:52:40,780 --> 00:52:46,520
necessary flow to make a sewer streamer plant a viable option, not to mention the cost

575
00:52:46,910 --> 00:52:52,520
of having to build a plant, I mean, we originally, the town asked us to design a plant for 500,000

576
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:53,320
gallons of flow.

577
00:52:53,920 --> 00:53:00,440
We went out of our way and designed a plant for 500,000 gallons of flow even though the potential

578
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:04,960
uses that we were talking about on both the town on land and the redeveloped houses of land,

579
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,420
there's only 140,000 gallons of flow as I understand it.

580
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:15,200
So we are looking at that as we're exploring other options.

581
00:53:15,660 --> 00:53:21,600
And we cannot commit to right now constructing on the need to construct a structure.

582
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:24,480
Because you speak to it just a standard title five system.

583
00:53:24,660 --> 00:53:28,840
So based on that 16 acres, you're looking at 7,000 gallons per day limitation

584
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:35,800
with a standard title five system, whereas for the purpose of comparison, that's the

585
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,620
Daniel Webster uses more than 10,000 gallons a day.

586
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:44,080
That's 200 seat restaurant, that's 50 tables at seat four.

587
00:53:44,980 --> 00:53:49,660
So for comparison, consideration, put it in perspective of what you can actually do with

588
00:53:49,660 --> 00:53:51,580
that property, with a standard title five system.

589
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:52,540
It's not a lot.

590
00:53:53,300 --> 00:53:59,300
At Standard Title 5 versus an Experimental Title 5, I suspect that they run new technologies

591
00:53:59,300 --> 00:54:05,560
in Experimental Title 5 systems that remove nitrogen that would maybe accept a greater

592
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:11,140
degree of flow than your Standard Title 5 system relative to issues concerning nitrogen

593
00:54:11,140 --> 00:54:11,900
loathing in that.

594
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,500
So we are looking at alternatives, I think David is.

595
00:54:16,500 --> 00:54:21,540
And that would just, that would require the DEP's approval and consideration.

596
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:22,840
That's exactly right.

597
00:54:25,050 --> 00:54:32,390
So I guess my question, then, Kevin, is with respect to the easement to deliver

598
00:54:32,390 --> 00:54:38,390
wastewater up to the past JAN Sebastian, is that, I understood that that's still

599
00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:39,850
something TRT wants.

600
00:54:40,570 --> 00:54:44,350
If we, if we have to move to a sort of stigma plant, that would be something

601
00:54:44,350 --> 00:54:49,290
that we would potentially, we can't do it without it.

602
00:54:49,470 --> 00:54:50,470
Let me put it to you that way.

603
00:54:51,250 --> 00:54:53,270
The project was looking for a sewage treatment solution.

604
00:54:53,810 --> 00:54:55,550
We were prepared to provide it

605
00:54:55,550 --> 00:54:57,230
in conjunction with the original proposal.

606
00:54:59,010 --> 00:55:02,790
And to this day, for obvious reasons,

607
00:55:03,250 --> 00:55:05,270
we still never could have an easement on a table

608
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:07,910
that worked.

609
00:55:08,310 --> 00:55:09,010
We designed it.

610
00:55:09,290 --> 00:55:11,050
We provided all the engineering.

611
00:55:13,290 --> 00:55:18,990
and for some reason or another, we never saw that he's been really in place.

612
00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:23,510
Well, one of your contingencies was the immediate issuance of the road easement

613
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:26,970
for the Grand Board of Discharge Permit. But it doesn't sound right.

614
00:55:27,550 --> 00:55:30,730
If we don't need it, if we don't need it, we won't need it.

615
00:55:31,710 --> 00:55:32,930
Are you looking at David's answer?

616
00:55:33,470 --> 00:55:37,070
As David says, if we get into the process and we have an idea of what we're going to have

617
00:55:37,070 --> 00:55:42,150
for flows after our discussions with the EEP if there is going to be a need for a

618
00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:45,390
students treatment plan and obviously as part of any negotiation and

619
00:55:45,390 --> 00:55:48,590
purchase and sale agreement, if we feel that what's going to be developed on

620
00:55:48,590 --> 00:55:53,170
the site is not going to be able to be done without a civil treatment plan then

621
00:55:53,170 --> 00:55:58,410
we would include a contingency in the agreement requiring an easement to be in

622
00:55:58,410 --> 00:56:02,750
place. We're not going to go through all the machinations that we went through

623
00:56:02,750 --> 00:56:09,450
last time, we brought it to 99% of the completion, so it shouldn't take a very long time to

624
00:56:09,870 --> 00:56:12,830
affect that if the time seems to be different.

625
00:56:13,230 --> 00:56:16,570
But there's no point in even talking about a certain treatment plan unless the time is

626
00:56:16,570 --> 00:56:17,590
prepared to grant the easements.

627
00:56:18,090 --> 00:56:19,590
So we can't get from point A to point B.

628
00:56:19,830 --> 00:56:25,050
Are you asking us to grant you the easement whether or not you need, whether or not you construct

629
00:56:25,050 --> 00:56:26,170
a way to store the treatment plan?

630
00:56:26,270 --> 00:56:31,070
I'm sure that we can fashion some language and purchase and sell it, that would, if it's

631
00:56:31,070 --> 00:56:34,330
required, the town would be willing to provide that ease.

632
00:56:39,710 --> 00:56:47,250
On that point, the housing authority, in the last proposal, you have a full of 56 acres

633
00:56:47,250 --> 00:56:55,330
of land, granted you an easement to come through Heritage, which is directly now street

634
00:56:55,330 --> 00:57:04,710
you've asked in a budding category, looking on here at the map that you can construct

635
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:11,050
here, you've become in the north of Coutuit Road. The entrance would come off of Coutuit

636
00:57:11,050 --> 00:57:14,070
Road or it would be coming all the way up, quite a meeting house.

637
00:57:14,770 --> 00:57:20,090
Well, I'm not at the developed of 16 acres, you wouldn't have to come all the way to the

638
00:57:20,090 --> 00:57:24,170
sandwich housing authority. You can come. We have access from

639
00:57:24,170 --> 00:57:26,890
Couture Road to, to that 16-acre possible land.

640
00:57:27,270 --> 00:57:30,150
Whereabouts, where, where is the interest on

641
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:33,550
Consulate? Is it like the house station, the bank area,

642
00:57:33,870 --> 00:57:35,070
real estate?

643
00:57:37,770 --> 00:57:38,330
I

644
00:57:41,150 --> 00:57:43,230
believe it's across the triangle, circled.

645
00:57:44,810 --> 00:57:47,630
You know, the residential development is on the opposite

646
00:57:47,630 --> 00:57:48,490
side of the street.

647
00:57:49,990 --> 00:57:56,530
and it was a roadway that planned flaw when the 24 acres of land that Tommy

648
00:57:56,530 --> 00:58:02,990
acquired from Shaw's was acquired as a roadway shown on that plan that would

649
00:58:02,990 --> 00:58:06,370
blend itself to access to that 16 acres.

650
00:58:09,300 --> 00:58:11,880
I guess I'm confused because I'm looking what it receives.

651
00:58:12,340 --> 00:58:19,060
You could do a road on one way to the inside coming down to looks like I can see

652
00:58:19,060 --> 00:58:23,720
all the way down to the junction of Couture and Quaker meeting, I was like,

653
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:29,680
you like to stop a trough, et cetera, but he'll be going back up the Couture Road to where the entrance is.

654
00:58:30,620 --> 00:58:36,060
It would be somewhere definitely south of the Canterbury and live on the road.

655
00:58:36,260 --> 00:58:42,540
I'm going past it every day, and I know the word is, it serves up, got you, okay.

656
00:58:42,540 --> 00:58:43,780
Okay, that's not a priority.

657
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:45,540
There's no no there now.

658
00:58:46,380 --> 00:58:47,260
Yeah, we don't have any questions.

659
00:58:47,620 --> 00:58:48,680
How are you taking care of me?

660
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:53,080
Can I just go back to the contingency, again,

661
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,560
we talked about at the very beginning.

662
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:01,880
And on a question, because your answer to the question

663
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:06,500
about keeping the contingency relative to competing interests,

664
00:59:06,500 --> 00:59:16,140
in that you believe that it's up to the zoning ward to approve whatever they would normally

665
00:59:16,140 --> 00:59:22,460
approve to go into that particular area that still doesn't answer the question.

666
00:59:23,620 --> 00:59:26,700
In other words, the zoning ward can approve whatever it wants.

667
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:35,720
What I want to know is, are you still planning to keep the contingency that the town by the

668
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:44,480
something for it or whoever will not approve a competing project so you are

669
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,680
assuring us that that's gone. We assured you in that letter that we sent to

670
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:52,800
the town that that was one of the contingencies that we were waving right off

671
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:57,920
the bat and would not be part of any discussion. That was very unclear because

672
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:18,220
Time has a zoning by-law, and the zoning by-law allows certain uses of the time can't very well limit those uses if the zoning by-law permits them. So I thought we made that clear, but if I'm not, I apologize. I apologize. When you put it earlier, so thank you for clarifying. Kevin, just follow up to the wastewater.

673
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:29,980
For the background there, and I know you, you know, we've talked about before as far as one that the property resides in his own contribution to public wells and two is

674
01:00:29,980 --> 01:00:34,880
within the watershed of an impaired watershed, both of which DEP will be looking at.

675
01:00:35,500 --> 01:00:40,420
You speak to the fact that you may need, you know, it's possible to have a title five

676
01:00:40,420 --> 01:00:44,960
system based on flows for just the 16 acres and speaking to just the 16 acres.

677
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:46,260
Say that we're looking at that.

678
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:47,160
Looking at that.

679
01:00:47,380 --> 01:00:55,960
And then in terms of the potential of alternatives also, as far as just for information, as DEP

680
01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:00,980
He calculates its flow regardless of what you use for treat going into it.

681
01:01:01,020 --> 01:01:04,760
They look at the total calculated flow and if it's over 10,000 gallons,

682
01:01:04,860 --> 01:01:08,500
if it fires a groundwater discharge permit, regardless if it needs,

683
01:01:08,500 --> 01:01:11,860
if you use some type of alternative system or not,

684
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,440
which then opens up no net nitrogen,

685
01:01:15,500 --> 01:01:19,460
okay, which then speaks to tying others in to reduce that nitrogen.

686
01:01:19,900 --> 01:01:22,260
I'll have to defer to you on that one day if that's your opinion.

687
01:01:22,260 --> 01:01:28,260
Okay, but I guess so we'll confer with that consultant's in terms of what options understood

688
01:01:28,260 --> 01:01:36,400
But I'm just point is as the proposals review just to you know an acknowledgement as far as when you speak to your finance and your cost

689
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:43,860
It's in what you're building and proposing that that's the one that's a acknowledged aware and on the table

690
01:01:47,380 --> 01:01:54,880
Kevin obviously do traffic it in associate impact with traffic are certainly concerned with any development proposal

691
01:01:55,780 --> 01:01:59,980
And we're trying to get a handle of what the potential impacts may be in the evaluation criteria.

692
01:02:00,340 --> 01:02:06,040
It refers to in two and three, not only the infrastructure, but also the impact analysis.

693
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:12,360
And I guess we're trying to figure out, looking at these proposals, what the impacts you expect

694
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:13,300
from traffic are.

695
01:02:13,660 --> 01:02:17,400
I know it's difficult to pinpoint exactly what it may be based upon development.

696
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:23,740
But essentially, what's your commitment to addressing the infrastructure of the roadway system?

697
01:02:23,740 --> 01:02:28,660
based upon a phase buildout, and do you have any expectations of the town of

698
01:02:28,660 --> 01:02:30,840
any for support or assistance in that?

699
01:02:33,130 --> 01:02:34,730
Well we thought that a lot of that was

700
01:02:34,730 --> 01:02:38,410
going to be dictated by the development agreement with the Cape Guard Commission in

701
01:02:38,410 --> 01:02:44,410
terms of what types of infrastructure changes they would require. One of the

702
01:02:44,410 --> 01:02:47,990
things that had been originally proposed was the bypass road that would run

703
01:02:47,990 --> 01:02:52,790
through the middle of a development, partially on town land, partially on Tom

704
01:02:52,790 --> 01:02:57,690
plan for Quake and Meeting House Road all the way through Tom's Heritage Park, Plaza,

705
01:02:57,990 --> 01:02:58,990
out to room 130.

706
01:03:00,250 --> 01:03:05,750
That may not be necessary at this juncture in the context of the discussion, just the

707
01:03:05,750 --> 01:03:09,710
16 acres, because we have access to a road directly.

708
01:03:10,290 --> 01:03:18,550
Originally also, we had hoped to extend the internal roadway that was started along the

709
01:03:18,550 --> 01:03:21,410
to a road which runs parallel to Couture Road.

710
01:03:21,590 --> 01:03:23,590
So then once you had your traffic off Couture Road,

711
01:03:24,090 --> 01:03:28,150
you could get up and down Couture Road from point A to point B

712
01:03:28,150 --> 01:03:30,250
without having to get back on to Couture Road.

713
01:03:30,390 --> 01:03:33,350
That was something that was started many years ago

714
01:03:33,350 --> 01:03:36,330
when I was on the board of appeals and hopefully

715
01:03:36,330 --> 01:03:38,570
and it's consistent with the town's comprehensive plan.

716
01:03:39,270 --> 01:03:43,350
So that's another something that we were committed

717
01:03:43,350 --> 01:03:44,550
to doing at that time.

718
01:03:45,730 --> 01:03:53,130
But again, it will depend largely upon what the KCOT commission is going to require, I suspect,

719
01:03:53,470 --> 01:03:55,650
in terms of traffic mitigation.

720
01:03:56,290 --> 01:04:03,290
Obviously, the amount of traffic that's going to be generated by a 300,000-square-foot development

721
01:04:03,290 --> 01:04:08,870
is far less than the amount of traffic that was being proposed by a million-square-foot development.

722
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:24,630
So, the mitigation expenses and things of that, it should be file less and traffic mitigation not as expansive as it might have been under the 56-acre proposal.

723
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:39,540
Just to be clear, Kevin, that $15 million in infrastructure costs that you estimate.

724
01:04:40,060 --> 01:04:43,620
Do you expect the town to pay for any of that?

725
01:04:44,300 --> 01:04:47,300
No, at this point, thank you.

726
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:54,620
I just have a question.

727
01:04:55,580 --> 01:05:00,740
We've already referred to several times on page 12, the Infrastructure and Mitigation

728
01:05:00,740 --> 01:05:01,440
Fees.

729
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:08,100
And Kevin you mentioned the wastewater plant, if it's just a 16.75 which is on the table

730
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:14,040
it probably is less than 8 million much less, okay so we won't end.

731
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:20,400
And then if I turn on page 14 and the purchase price, and let me put a caveat, no intention

732
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,300
to negotiate purchase price.

733
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,960
I'm just addressing the header on Roman No. 5.

734
01:05:27,020 --> 01:05:30,940
You have a part of your 65,000 per acre,

735
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,600
which you feel is a fair price for undeveloped plans.

736
01:05:35,420 --> 01:05:37,880
You have traffic mitigation, two to four million.

737
01:05:38,060 --> 01:05:40,800
But right now, we don't have really

738
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:44,780
a clear understanding what constraints the K-cut commission

739
01:05:44,780 --> 01:05:46,940
or other regulatory bodies will put on it.

740
01:05:46,940 --> 01:05:50,000
And then the $8 million is in flux right now.

741
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:54,140
I think Paul just mentioned, talked about the $3.80 million.

742
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:58,900
It just struck me, and I just, if you could explain, the $1 million that you've already paid

743
01:05:58,900 --> 01:06:05,980
on development costs, which I know you have outlined in your proposal very well on page 13.

744
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:11,780
You plan to recapture those, or is that an offset to the purchase price?

745
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:16,920
I just didn't know how to read that because the way I feel that, that's the way I feel

746
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,440
That's an opportunity cost, it might go back many years.

747
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:26,040
And I just didn't understand if that, if I should read that as a citizen, and a member

748
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:31,510
of this committee is kind of like an offset, hope I make myself clear.

749
01:06:31,550 --> 01:06:41,050
I'm not quite sure when June, the $65,000 per acre cost, I think, was, I'm not, I just raised

750
01:06:41,050 --> 01:06:41,330
that.

751
01:06:41,730 --> 01:06:42,390
Let's say that's fine.

752
01:06:42,550 --> 01:06:43,210
I think, actually, yeah.

753
01:06:43,990 --> 01:06:50,510
On the second paragraph, TRT additionally believes and maintains that additional consideration

754
01:06:50,510 --> 01:06:55,790
should be given to the 1 million in development costs already incurred by TRT.

755
01:06:56,090 --> 01:07:03,390
And you have outlined that on the page before, as 1 million 92 300 and at least engineering

756
01:07:03,390 --> 01:07:05,130
all the way down to UMass market.

757
01:07:17,900 --> 01:07:25,920
So this is a good will gesture. So it's good will and not an offset to a purchase price.

758
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:27,700
Thank you.

759
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:34,660
If I'm not mistaken and maybe Ed can elaborate, but I even think the $65,000 per acre cost

760
01:07:34,660 --> 01:07:37,560
exceeds what the town assesses, the land fund doesn't know.

761
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:44,480
Right, as we've discussed, when we analyze those large parcels,

762
01:07:45,140 --> 01:07:49,420
we can only value them. This is where assessment and appraisal departs.

763
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,720
We can only assess for the existing road layout and the existing frontage,

764
01:07:53,820 --> 01:07:57,520
so obviously we're missing all the goodies potentially on the inside pricing

765
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:03,080
for buildouts, so you end up with having very minimal base lots

766
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:10,320
and then the rest is back land but once again that is the way that we have to

767
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:15,680
look at it in that case it's as is used as opposed to IS and Bets use and I

768
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:20,080
guess that the the same is true from a developer perspective if a developer is

769
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:24,600
going to bid on a piece of property developer has to take into consideration but

770
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:29,960
those additional development costs are going to be to make the land functional so I

771
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,160
I guess that's one of the reasons why the numbers come in, where they come in.

772
01:08:37,980 --> 01:08:42,560
I don't mean to harp on waste water, but it's a huge issue for the town.

773
01:08:43,660 --> 01:08:44,240
We understand.

774
01:08:46,440 --> 01:08:57,080
And so, reading the RFP, I'm just going to read you a paragraph under evaluation criteria number two.

775
01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:03,100
And, you know, this committee is going to have to evaluate each of these proposals on each of these specific

776
01:09:03,100 --> 01:09:03,780
criteria.

777
01:09:05,340 --> 01:09:11,560
And the wastewater criteria says proposals that fully address the proposed developers

778
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:16,340
wastewater needs without the use of town land will be considered highly advantageous.

779
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:22,080
Proposals that require the use of town land to address wastewater needs will be considered

780
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:27,900
advantageous proposals that do not demonstrate a plan to fully address their

781
01:09:27,900 --> 01:09:32,920
projects waste water needs will be considered not advantageous. So how should we

782
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:38,360
rate your proposal on this very important criteria? That's good question. That's

783
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:44,100
up to you. Okay. I mean I think that we if a waste water treatment solution is

784
01:09:44,100 --> 01:09:54,220
required, then we've demonstrated by virtue of a year and a half worth of engineering costs

785
01:09:54,220 --> 01:10:02,120
and expenses that we have the ability to do it, that we have gone maybe 90% of the way

786
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:08,680
with the D to obtain a ground one of this kind of firm. So if it's needed, it's something

787
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:14,860
that we will pursue, and that's about all I can tell you.

788
01:10:15,500 --> 01:10:17,300
Well, let me ask you a different question, then, Kevin.

789
01:10:17,580 --> 01:10:26,180
When, in this process, would TRT be willing to commit to a particular wastewater solution?

790
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:28,840
I suppose.

791
01:10:29,100 --> 01:10:29,960
It sounds like it can.

792
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:34,200
If it takes seven months to come to a purchase and sale agreement, then chances are that would

793
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:39,100
be enough time to come to a certain determination as to whether or not it's going to be.

794
01:10:39,100 --> 01:10:46,240
If you were talking about a purchase in sale agreement within 30 days, it might be difficult to get to that.

795
01:10:46,700 --> 01:10:56,780
So you're thinking that by the time we sit down to ink a purchase in sale agreement, you will have a specific waste water plan in place.

796
01:10:57,020 --> 01:10:59,400
And by that time, if we would need to do that, that's for us.

797
01:10:59,640 --> 01:10:59,940
Thank you.

798
01:11:03,340 --> 01:11:04,820
This is a question I was going to ask.

799
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:10,560
Both groups, through our discussions that we've had once the letters were sent around seeking more information,

800
01:11:11,180 --> 01:11:22,980
I think both TRT and Clark have made clear that you guys met once or twice just to try to talk a little bit on how projects could either be, you know, complimentary of one another or half things potentially could work.

801
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:37,040
So I just wondered if you had any thoughts about entertaining, trying to work cooperatively on the 56 acres or was it more exclusive of one another but, you know, trying to be supportive of each other's developments because it would benefit each other.

802
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:46,000
We have had discussions with the plaque group, I think that those discussions have been positive.

803
01:11:47,300 --> 01:11:57,120
We do think that both projects can be mutually beneficial to the other and to the town as a whole.

804
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:06,420
And we will, depending upon the outcome of what the time decides to do relative to the

805
01:12:06,420 --> 01:12:15,660
responses to the RFP, we'll continue to have such discussions with those folks if it

806
01:12:15,660 --> 01:12:16,120
makes sense.

807
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:25,840
We have talked all along, and one of the things that Sue had brought up during the course

808
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:33,020
of our last public meeting was anchor tennis, well, one thing that Tom has talked about since

809
01:12:33,020 --> 01:12:36,340
the beginning is that he thought that the development needed some kind of a theme

810
01:12:37,020 --> 01:12:42,900
to attract people to a project of this nature.

811
01:12:43,340 --> 01:12:52,680
I do think that the other proposal may provide that kind of a theme to bring people to the

812
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:59,920
area where you didn't necessarily have because of the nature of what was on the table, you know,

813
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:03,920
some live restaurant isn't going to come in and just plop their restaurant down on the middle

814
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:10,180
of something when nothing else is around. So those are the nature of the discussions that we've had,

815
01:13:10,460 --> 01:13:16,540
we think, as I say, that both proposals can be mutually beneficial. I have to say, even from my

816
01:13:16,540 --> 01:13:21,280
perspective, like not only did they seem mutually beneficial, but almost mutually dependent in the sense

817
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:28,320
of the things that TRT has today and has developed over time, be it the movie theaters

818
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:34,320
or many of the other things, it would greatly supplement whatever goes in.

819
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:42,920
So I just wanted to go back to traffic for one second with what Paul Tilton asked about

820
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:49,720
earlier in the proposal and at least two different places you mentioned that you're especially

821
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:53,100
concerned about traffic mitigation costs from the Cape Cod Commission.

822
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,800
And on page 12, they talked about how you do request that the town

823
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:00,460
designate the main street as a public way to help with traffic mitigation.

824
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:04,540
And I know when Paul asked earlier about whether you request the town

825
01:14:04,540 --> 01:14:09,140
to assume any costs or mitigate in any way the traffic mitigation,

826
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:11,920
you talked about the development agreement process.

827
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:14,300
But as we know, that's a process with the commission,

828
01:14:14,440 --> 01:14:17,000
and you can request the town to mitigate things.

829
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,720
And I think your answer, and I wrote it down,

830
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:20,120
was not at this point.

831
01:14:20,660 --> 01:14:22,660
So just given the fact that you put in a couple of places

832
01:14:22,660 --> 01:14:24,920
in the RFP that you're especially concerned about the cost

833
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:26,960
and you said not at this point, that implies

834
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:28,880
to me that it might come up later.

835
01:14:29,180 --> 01:14:32,100
So could you just expand again on how you're planning

836
01:14:32,100 --> 01:14:34,260
on handling the traffic mitigation expenses?

837
01:14:34,260 --> 01:14:38,060
Because obviously it directly affects the cost

838
01:14:38,060 --> 01:14:38,820
and the operation.

839
01:14:38,820 --> 01:14:40,260
The traffic mitigate, we would expect

840
01:14:40,260 --> 01:14:42,360
that the traffic that would be generated

841
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:45,460
on the 16.75 areas, that those mitigation expenses

842
01:14:45,460 --> 01:14:47,860
would be substantially less than what

843
01:14:47,860 --> 01:14:53,640
was originally called by the Cape Cod Commission, which I think was upwards of $4 million or $6 million

844
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:59,800
or something like that because you had over a million square feet of whether it be commercial.

845
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:06,100
So we think with that number it's likely to be much smaller because we're only talking about 300,000

846
01:15:06,100 --> 01:15:08,140
square feet of space.

847
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:15,200
The MA have been funding and credits that were available under the

848
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:20,980
K God Commission process, it's a town where to assume responsibility for that main road going

849
01:15:20,980 --> 01:15:27,000
through in terms of owning it. We talked about mechanisms that would be available, whether the association

850
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:33,600
Association that would be created to run the businesses and things like that would pay for the maintenance and costs and things of that nature

851
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:39,700
But the ownership of the road itself would be a benefit to the overall cost of mitigation

852
01:15:40,300 --> 01:15:45,800
Which is one of the reasons why I believe the town stepped up and said they will be willing to consider it a public way

853
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:54,300
But certainly that public way and the cost of maintaining that public way could be shoulder by the folks that develop along that that public way

854
01:15:56,580 --> 01:16:04,400
My is partly a statement, partly a question, just so that everyone's clear on this and particularly

855
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:10,380
people from the press and watching at home, I didn't want to give anybody the impression

856
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:18,640
that after the submission of the RFP that the town came up with any extra questions.

857
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:24,420
So you're all clear, these questions were in the original submittal.

858
01:16:25,340 --> 01:16:29,680
These are questions that should have been answered in the original submittal.

859
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:33,920
So we've given the applicants more time to answer the questions.

860
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:41,440
But I didn't want anyone to be unclear that these questions were on the first exam.

861
01:16:43,060 --> 01:16:44,800
This is the third exam.

862
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:50,640
So we're trying to get the answers to this, and that's why we're struggling so much with

863
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:56,440
some of these things that are really hugely fundamental to a project like this, like

864
01:16:56,440 --> 01:16:58,000
wastewater, like traffic.

865
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:06,120
So this appears to be like one-third phase one, sort of one-third of what the original

866
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:07,080
proposal was.

867
01:17:07,740 --> 01:17:11,940
So I'm confused as to why you couldn't just have compartmentalized those costs.

868
01:17:11,940 --> 01:17:21,360
us. If you knew what the cost was for a million square feet, 300,000 is one third that.

869
01:17:22,660 --> 01:17:27,620
I mean, it would seem to me you were in the position to be able to answer these questions

870
01:17:27,620 --> 01:17:29,180
when they were delivered.

871
01:17:29,740 --> 01:17:34,660
I'm not sure that when the 56-acre proposal was submitted to those questions were necessarily

872
01:17:34,660 --> 01:17:39,800
answered either because of the speculative nature of the development and what how

873
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:44,580
property would be developed in the fact that you're probably talking a

874
01:17:44,580 --> 01:17:50,160
much larger period of time to develop 56 acres than you are to develop 16

875
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:56,940
acres. So while those questions may have been answered, apparently the answers

876
01:17:56,940 --> 01:18:01,120
that were given were not sufficient as far as you were concerned or as far as the

877
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:07,820
board was concerned at the time. But we tried to provide an explanation as to

878
01:18:07,820 --> 01:18:13,920
And why some of the specifics that you seem to be seeking are that the board was seeking

879
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:20,480
just are not practical and tell you have some indication as to what it is you're going

880
01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:20,980
to be building?

881
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:26,760
And I thought you were honest about it and clear about the appetite for more retail space

882
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:30,580
and what that meant and how the market had to change for that.

883
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:36,700
And that's a reality for a lot of people to accept for sandwich, but it's a fact.

884
01:18:39,140 --> 01:18:40,020
Thank you.

885
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:44,800
Anyone thinking of any other questions or?

886
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:55,600
I think it's fair to say both from your perspective and ours, we wish we could be like a private landowner and just stick a for sale sign up, hire someone to do this dirty work for us and figure it out.

887
01:18:55,600 --> 01:19:00,820
I think it not only creates an extra burden on you guys in terms of the formal process

888
01:19:00,820 --> 01:19:05,580
we have to go through, but I can definitely say it's more of a burden on us trying to do

889
01:19:05,580 --> 01:19:09,440
the due diligence and a lot of times people say like why are you going through this like

890
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:13,560
why don't you just sell the land it's better than sitting on it and all I can give you two

891
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:14,160
examples.

892
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:19,960
Plymouth Rock Studios and 38 studios, Plymouth Rock Studios and Plymouth and 38 studios

893
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:34,760
those in Rhode Island, two publicly funded projects and other things where they were municipalities in the state were thrown in to try to support things that they wanted to support for good reason and things didn't materialize.

894
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:38,080
And I'm not equating your project or Clark's project, either one of those.

895
01:19:38,180 --> 01:19:47,180
I'm just trying to say that there's due diligence that we have to go through and it is different than a town because we're going to be neighbors for the next thousands of years, hopefully.

896
01:19:47,180 --> 01:19:51,960
And not, you know, just be changing hands and we really don't care who buys our property.

897
01:19:52,440 --> 01:19:56,560
So, and we know how much time it's taken to go through and how much effort's gone into it.

898
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:57,980
And we really appreciate it.

899
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:02,720
And I know this can even be like out of the ordinary type process we have to go through,

900
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:03,980
but we're just trying to do our homework.

901
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:10,380
I think we understand that the process is a little bit different.

902
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:15,820
If we were dealing with the private developer, the private developer would sell the land.

903
01:20:15,820 --> 01:20:22,020
and we would develop, the private development would not seek to control and to keep its

904
01:20:22,020 --> 01:20:27,420
hand on what occurs and I can understand why the town would have an interest in doing

905
01:20:27,420 --> 01:20:31,440
that because the town has an interest in generating tax revenue and things of that nature.

906
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:37,800
One distinction relative to the two projects that you mentioned is that you have a known commodity.

907
01:20:39,100 --> 01:20:46,960
You have a taxpayer, maybe the second largest taxpayer in the town, who has been a successful

908
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:55,560
landowner and business person in the town who has demonstrated the ability to get things

909
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:57,440
done and be successful at.

910
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:02,260
So it's a little bit different than somebody flew in from California and decided they were

911
01:21:02,260 --> 01:21:09,720
to make this Hollywood East, you know, and, you know, become the gaming chairman of

912
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:15,980
Lora Island and whatever, but at any rate, as I say, there is a distinction there, and

913
01:21:15,980 --> 01:21:21,740
you have somebody who has a genuine interest in doing something that he believes is not

914
01:21:21,740 --> 01:21:27,740
only in the best interest of he and his family, but also he genuinely believes that it's in

915
01:21:27,740 --> 01:21:31,100
the best interest of the country, and that's about all I can say.

916
01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:36,860
But thank you guys for all their time and then

917
01:21:47,390 --> 01:21:49,730
we'll be back at one o'clock thank you