And I see someone's hand. I don't know who it is.
I've got two more emails on the way here.
» Mhm.
» [clears throat]
» Yeah, I I can do that.
» You move over here if you want. >> Do you want me to?
» So you're not so far away.
» Oh, wait. He's not here, either.
» Yeah. You know what?
» supposed to be here. >> She'll be here. [clears throat]
I did yeah. What time? Cuz I Scott and Mary's
He's dangerous. Okay, thanks Al.
Some days I'm home at that time. Usually once or twice a week.
» You're usually early. >> I work a late shift once a week and a
half. Friday Friday's are my day off.
» It's fine. What's your feeling that every week?
» Yeah, we get uh >> Yeah, you know I was thinking that this
would like squat down and I could never
» You got a gal with three poodles golden doodles that go
on the street sometimes. >> She got golden doodles.
» I >> If you don't own this psychic reading
psychic guy I think it's
It's first south and first worst I think or worst center
street. Two golden retrievers. He never put them
on a leash and he they just stay with them and they he they wouldn't go
running across to our dogs. They're in my in one of the three homes.
And we >> Okay.
» dogs and you know
They're always puppies too. >> Okay.
Um a little after 6:00. Apologize for being just a moment late. Uh I'm
Kathleen Alder. I'm the mayor of Providence and welcome
to the Wednesday, June 17th 2026 meeting.
Um We appreciate all of you being here. We
always like participation. Um
so we'll go ahead and get started
with a roll call. We have Scott Campbell.
Janelle Seeley. >> I'm
I'm Finch.
David Coons, and Brent Speth is on Zoom.
Carrie Kirk is excused tonight. She's in Africa.
So, I said, "Are you sure you're going to be
safe there?" And she said, "I think so." So,
let's hope that there she's not in a place where they're having
um Ebola. So, um
I've asked David Coons if he would lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. So, if
you would stand.
» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.
» Okay, we do have a quorum because we've got Brent on the
um
on Zoom. So, I've asked Scott Campbell if he would
give us a prayer tonight unless there's someone in the audience that would like
to give a a thought or a prayer. Okay?
Got it. Thank you.
» Our heavenly Father, we are grateful for the many blessings that thou has given
us. We're grateful to live where we do, where we have relative peace.
We're grateful for our good neighbors and for the
good that they desire to do, and the good works that they do.
We're grateful for the opportunity to discuss the needs of our our city, our
wonderful city. We pray that thou wouldst guide us that we make good
decisions. And we pray for these things in the name
of Jesus Christ. Amen. >> Amen.
Thank you. Um let's go to council reports. We've
got a 13-item agenda tonight. So, we want to move ahead and and go
quickly. So,
David, you want to start? >> Sure.
Um let's see. During the last month, I've
been able to uh help clean up the cemetery with the
staff and that was from Memorial Day. This was a different project than the
one I always talk about, but >> [laughter]
» um cleaning up the flowers and things that were
dying and needed to be removed and that's always good to
work with them and and see how hard everybody works and and just another
opportunity to volunteer and and to serve.
Um I was able to go to a meeting through the ULCT in North Logan. It was just a
couple of hours. They talked about um legislation versus policy and and
some other things about a good discussion and good training to be at.
Um the mosquito fogging is in full swing. It just started at the beginning
of the month. So, we had some questions about that come up
earlier that people are being bothered by them and hopefully that they'll that
will literally die down now, I hope, a little bit. Um
as far as the Just Serve project, we still have ongoing projects and and suc-
success with people signing up wanting to serve.
Canyon cleanups and the cemetery project I brought up before and others. Um
Scott, I'll let you report on if if that's
in your notes, I guess, but there's some other things coming up with in
conjunction with America 250 and um I'll leave it at that.
» Thank you.
Gina? >> Um I worked with staff a little bit to
refine um and fine-tune our Safe Routes to School plans as we're transitioning
um different school boundaries and walking paths for Providence Elementary
and what will soon be Spring Creek Elementary. Um
I am chairing the fun run for Sauerkraut Days.
So, I've been working on that. Um on the note of Sauerkraut Days, they are
looking for volunteers to cut cabbage on the 27th of June.
Um they have a big commercial kitchen out at Bridgerland. Um
BATC, it's like on the corner of 10th West and 1400 North. So,
if you are interested and willing to participate in a long-standing
tradition, we'll take all the manpower we can. I think
that they say I think last year they did 300 lb of cabbage. So,
it's a lot of a lot of slicing. Um anybody interested?
Scott Dun. Um
» It was fun. I had a good time. I met I got to interact with some neighbors.
And uh I thought it was a great time. >> Yeah, I think I think Brent Speth's
going to be there. >> Yeah, I'll be there.
» [laughter] >> Um I attended um LPC, which is the leg-
legislative policy committee for the interim session for the state
legislature. Um that's pretty much what I've been
doing and responding to lots of emails.
So. Okay, thank you. >> Um since we do have 13 items, I will be
a little briefer than I originally planned. Uh Cache Trails, uh I um had a
meeting on the 9th, went over There's nothing no huge issues. There's a few
challenges that they're going through. Just I just want to report on a couple
things that uh going over the Malibu project they've been working on. They
actually have an end date on it now finally for So, uh November 4th. They're
making really good prog- progress. There's a Hyrum Reservoir project.
They've run into a couple little snags with a couple uh property owners. And
so, they're focusing at a different part of the the trail there on the east side
of uh the reservoir.
Um and they're getting ready to start that. Uh, let's see. Um,
Bear Creek Lodge Trail is moving along. There's just a lot of down trees, so
it's probably going to take most of the summer to clear that out and complete
the project or complete the construction.
Uh, America 250, I'll talk about that for just a moment. We are looking to do
some stuff, uh, some service hours, and so we're looking for some
potential service projects. And so I've spoken with David about some options
there, and uh, I'll have a conversation with the mayor and see if we can
solidify some of that. And uh, what the kind of the idea is 200, since we're
celebrating America 250, we want to see if Province will put in 250 volunteer
service hours between before the city celebration and
report them. And let us know a little bit what we can do, and then we can
celebrate what they've accomplished with at at least 250 service hours.
And uh, Healthy Utah Community Designation, I
let us not sign up for that last time, and they had a deadline in uh,
March, I think it was. And I let us not sign up for that
because I was trying to figure out what's in it for us. What's in it for
Province? Well, as I've looked into it during that time, hey, give me a break.
I was new, right? So, I looked at it, and I think it's actually worthwhile
project. It's a good thing to be designated a healthy city and get
involved in the community in helping people become more healthy, and there's
a lot of options for that. So, I'm just putting it out there.
Um, I know we have a very active community when there's a hot topic, but
uh, if you want to help Province become more
healthy and be on a committee, the commitment would be meet at least once
quarterly, um, help with some certain little
projects, and um, we need a committee of at least four
people. I would like at least four besides me on that committee. So, if
anyone in the audience in the or online would
like to participate in something like that, please reach out to me and let's
chat. And that's it. Thanks. >> Okay, his number's on the website.
Um so, and is your email I is your number on there? Just your email?
» thought my email's on there. If not, people are calling me, so
someone's got my phone number >> [laughter]
» and I'm good with that. I don't have a problem with you calling me.
» Been published. Okay.
Um just a a quick little update. I've been
working, you know,
down on the highway, um in front of Discount Tire
and the the medical clinic that's there. We're missing some sidewalk.
And I watch people in the wintertime trying to navigate getting walking along
there and there's snow and ice and cars rushing
by. And so, I have worked with both of the
the uh landowners right there
and we've got letters that say, "Yes, we would like to have a sidewalk." So,
we'll let you not know. We'll work with them and get a grant
and be able to put that sidewalk in so that people are not walking out on the
on the street. Um seems like we see more and more
people that are that are walking as we're talking about
uh how expensive gas and transportation is.
Um today I had an opportunity to speak with
the Kiwanis Club about Providence. Just telling them a little bit about our
history and our background. And I
had them watch the video and and I'm going to ask if any of you've seen it.
It's about the canyon and the limestone quarry that's
up there. Has anybody watched that? >> I have.
» Okay. It's fascinating.
Um it's under historic commission and it's it's about sauerkraut.
Um they talk about
the the um sugar beets and how they were
used to make sugar and how we used limestone
to do that. Uh it was quarried out of there with horses and then it was
then and it we had trucks. Anyway, it's fascinating.
And it was interesting to talk to this group and and show them what Providence
added to this valley and to the community.
Um my job is always to be out in the public and going to meetings and and
making sure that people know who we are and
um it's nice for me to be able to call um our representatives in the
in the United States Senate and Congress and uh to call our local
leaders and have them take the call and know who we are and know what we do. So,
um I do a lot of that.
Don't need to bring all of that up today um because we want to move ahead. So,
Brent, what have you got a report for us? Can you do
that? He's He's on his way to Salt Lake, so.
» I Yes. I
attended the emergency management meeting and uh
with uh this county and uh
I uh there's not much to report on that. They went through a lot of things, but
it's just kind of ongoing stuff. And uh
I also have just been inundated with work about the uh
the ring of that's been a big deal.
Anyway, that's about what all I can report right now.
» Okay. Thank you.
We'll go ahead and close that item
and go to item number one, approval of minutes. Providence City Council
consider and approve for approval the minutes of May 20th, 2026.
So, I will entertain and a
motion. >> I'll make a motion to approve the
minutes from May 20th, 2026. >> Okay, we have a motion.
Second by um David.
Any questions? Any changes? Just a great big thanks to Ty
for such a good job that he does on them.
All in favor? >> I.
» I.
» Did you say I? Brent?
» I. >> Okay. That's okay.
Thank you. Motion passes. Um
close that item and go to item number two.
We're going to be talking about public hearings tonight.
We have a public hearing for our 2026 budget.
Um we'll take comments and questions from
the public regarding the request to adjust the fiscal year. That's our
budget that we're working on now. Um
Brian, what would you like to say about this?
» Yeah, let me kind of do a little introductory.
So, at the end of each year, what we do is we we look at
our revenue and and see where where that revenue is has gone over what we
projected it to be. And then we have a few items that may
have come in that expense would have have trended
higher than we expected.
So, the general fund is our 10 funds or general fund here.
We had an additional through a few different things, state grants. You'll
see the state grant came in. Other various things
had we over ran the revenue by about 608,000.
And then we've had a few little off expenses. So, E911 is population
resident based. So, it's tracked higher.
You know, there's been a few other little things that have tracked higher.
But overall, we we had about
300,000 in expense. So, we transferred the rest of that 388,000
into our um
uh in our capital projects fund. So, at
that point the revenue and expense in the general fund balance again balances
out. So, while we had a few um extra ones
come in, we still had an extra 300,000 388,000 to
transfer our general fund. Um the general the capital projects
fund, we had some extra revenue.
Had a few extra expenses, but at that point at the end of the day, we're
within that $12,000 or just above $12,000 difference there
in revenue. So, on the positive side. Um on the water side, our revenue came
in higher than than our little
expense adjustments by 175,000. So, we're making some adjustments there.
Um the sewer funds, the revenue came in higher.
We had a few extra expenses in a few of these.
But we're still revenue a net income side on that.
Um the 53 the storm
storm fund, did not not a lot goes through the storm water fund, but we did
have a few adjustments. Um the garbage fund
with our revenue we our revenue didn't grow as fast as projected and we had a
few extra expenses. Um depreciation hit in um a little bit more than expected.
And so so we have a little um little bit of a of a
of a loss compared to what the original budget was. Still a profit in that
um and then in the fiber fund our revenue
is higher. We had a few adjustments utility and network operation. Network
operations is based on um on a number of connections. So um we
projected a little conservative. We had more connect than we expected. So
overall that's what we had. So we'll the only fund that we have
uh cost going up more than the revenue going up is is our garbage fund. Um but
still a profitable um
profitable fund. So anyway, that's what I
what I have and then if we have public comment. So
if they have any questions. >> great report.
That's what we like to hear on the budget that we've
got more revenue than we thought we were going to get.
» So. >> Um
I
» [clears throat] >> Sometimes this form is a little
confusing. But do we have anybody that's signed up
to talk about this subject?
Okay. Not hearing any, we will go on to item
number three. Um this is
» You'll need to close that public hearing as official.
» Oh. >> [clears throat]
» Yeah. >> Let me officially close
that public hearing. >> Perfect.
» Thank you. Uh item number three, elective and
statutory officers compensation public hearing.
Providence City Council will take comments and questions from the public
regarding the the elective and statutory officers' compensation as found in
fiscal year 2027 budget. So, Ryan,
yours, too. >> Yep. Yep, I got I got quite a few until
we get to the real real exciting one. So, I got the budget
and all of the all of those ones. Um so, it was, you know, budget um
um document of the tenant part of the
tentative budget. Um so, this is just going over that. Um
we we look at the um
uh salary surveys. We look at the adjustments. Um we base most of our
adjustments on the cost of living adjustment. Um so, we have a few So, a
few changes here. Uh planning commission, um my own here.
Um and the staff side, we're at at a two two
and a half percent cola with a uh two and a half percent merit potential.
Um we show what the salary ranges are. Uh
our last salary adjustment uh our salary range study was in 2024.
Um and uh so, we are due that. We probably
could have done it this year. We'll do it next year. Um but every two to three
years we do that. Um we have the number of years of experience. Um we also put,
you know, in the in the broader scale, we put the uh
number of hours worked and the number of PTO hours returned uh for total donated
amount. Um and uh so, then we have um we watch our
uh pay scale pay ranges compared to our uh
both the cost of living um
at the CPI. Um we also compare that to the
uh rate of of uh salary of uh resident change uh and see how we can we
compete with both um residents as well as national as well as state. So,
anyway, um basically, that's that's where we're
at is uh um the judge, they dictate what that happens. So, we know exactly they
they tell us what that is. Um so, anyway, we're within the salary
ranges. Um and as that salary range moves up, you imagine
um the the pay scales adjust accordingly.
So, anyway, any questions that you have with that one? The public?
No questions? >> Okay.
We will um close that public hearing and go on to item number
four. This is a final budget hearing. Providence City Council will take
comments and questions from public regarding the city's fiscal year 2027
final budget. If you'll remember, we introduced it a month ago.
Gave people an opportunity to peruse it and to give us feedback.
And so, now we're giving a final opportunity to make comment in meeting
if they'd like to. So, Ryan, Ryan?
» Yep. So, that that great summary we've we've uh this matches almost um almost
exactly with just a few technical words. Um
it it matches to what the tentative was. Uh if you remember, on the tentative
proposal or the proposed tentative had the
um the property tax increase. We removed uh
that to truth in taxation um in favor of having just the ballot.
We'll talk about the ballot languages for the library, so that doesn't include
it. Um so, at this point, this would be the final budget to to approve. This
would if if approved as is, it would approve the compensation schedule.
Um and this will be the public hearing for it,
but later when it's approved, that would approve the compensation schedule and
and the no property tax increase as it stands. Um, so at this point, um, just
to go through a little bit of how we come to the budget for those that may be
new, um, the the method of of this is we take the
cap the capital projects um, programs for each of the different uh
funds we have, and uh and we take that to try to
accomplish some of those objectives. And then we also work to have the budget
to be uh a continuation of services that are provided.
Um, so we work to try to provide continuation of service plus achieving
the capital project needs that have been identified in the plans. So, um,
anyway, then we go through, we talk about the history, we talk about our
accomplishments. Uh, we have uh the compensation schedule, the
organizational chart. Um, we have the organizational chart both by um by
employee but also by type of responsibility that's done. Uh, we talk
about the basis of budgeting, our financial policies, um, our revenues, uh
capital improvements each year for for the long range. Uh, our budget does
include a five-year outlook. Um, so we have inside the budget it'll show two
years prior, current year, and three years uh but then we also project out uh
a five-year model. So, this year and four more years, plus then we have a
five to 10-year uh outlook. Um, so you can look through our budget and kind of
project what we're going to do for next not just this year uh this coming year,
but but for the five to 10-year uh outlook. Um, and what projects are
coming up. So, if anybody wants to say, "Hey, when's when's the road in front of
mine?" Or or how far out is this project?
Um the budget really guides a lot of that. And And then we have links inside
the budget to any of those plans of where those numbers are coming from. So,
um we can go in great depth, but at this point um
the the the few things that have changed is kind of a highlighting where sales
tax we changed the property tax cuz there's no property tax.
Um but if you go through, there's just a few small
uh wording differences that have been included. So, nothing substantive. So,
anyway, if anybody has questions or would like to go more in depth than I'm
a nerd that I can go and through it. Um as a as a trained CPA, I'm happy to go
to the nth degree, but I know that it's boring to a lot. And we've got a big
agenda, so I'll I'll go to whatever length you want to go.
» I'm a bottom line kind of girl. >> [laughter]
» I don't I don't need to to know how the carburetor works.
Know that the car will turn on. Um but he does a great job. He
we are extremely lucky to have someone with his
background to be able to do our budgets and keep
them keep them keep on top of them so that we
can end the year and say we didn't overspend anywhere.
So, thank you Ryan for the work that you do.
Um not seeing any comments, we'll close
uh item number four on the final budget public hearing
and go to item number five. This is um
» [snorts] >> Providence City Code 5-4-7
amended public hearing. The public Excuse me, the Providence City Council
will take comments and questions from the public regarding a resident
request to amend PCC 54 5-4-7,
which deals with swimming pool fence regulations.
So, um
Do you Yes. >> She is our attorney.
» Yes, I know who it is. >> [laughter]
» Hi. Just wanted to come out tonight and
speak on the proposal here.
Um I don't necessarily have a problem with
the proposal for the actual change to the uh covers
of swimming pools being secure as long as they follow the regulations, which is
already in. But, it
is a little bit strange to me, and I thought I should raise it to the council
that um there is a request that this be made
retroactive to cancel any current um
prosecution or other sorts of um activities based on this. Now,
I also serve as civil uh code compliance for other
cities, and as a prosecuting attorney, and it's
likely that if this were passed, if there were any open citations or
things that that would be evaluated by the prosecuting authority,
but I do feel that it is a little bit out of line for the legislative side to
preemptively say, "This has not been okay for 5 10 years,
and there are active cases, but we're going to strip those away just because
something is changing now." Especially when proper notices have been given that
people were out of compliance and they were
may have chosen to willfully not comply. Those are the kinds of things
that we don't want to see happening in the city, whether or not
the specifics of the >> [clears throat]
» regulations do change. And that's part of the the duties of the compliance and
I don't even handle that side for Pro- Providence per se. Um
but I do think that it's worth the council knowing that I don't
feel that it's very just
to make that portion of the change if it were to be adopted.
» Thank you.
» My name's Deanne Henninger and I actually submitted the application. So,
I appreciate your support. However, with the retroactive, I talked to an attorney
as well and I looked this up and typically
when you do retroactive, it hurts residents by foreseeing unexpected
expenses, but here it actually helps residents by legalizing existing highly
safe technology. And if you have two neighbors with the exact same cover,
it's just going to be equal. It's not going to be like, "Okay,
when did you put yours in? When did you know?" It's just equal. These covers
have to meet these guidelines. I don't know if you if I need to go over what
the guidelines are if you guys have a copy of the application.
» Probably if you just want to explain what you're asking for and why you're
asking. >> Okay.
» And then um this is a public hearing, so you
you can explain what you're doing and then
» Okay. >> um you're
you're explaining that to the council. >> Okay.
» And then if there's anyone in the audience that wants to make a comment,
they can certainly do that. >> Okay. Thank you.
Um this is my first one, so >> That's okay.
» Okay, so I'm proposing that Providence updates um their zoning codes regarding
residential residential swimming pools, hot tubs, and spas.
My amendment seeks to bring Providence into direct alignment with the state
guidelines for recognizing the ASTM F1346
certified safety covers as a fully compliant alternative to a
perimeter fence and to apply the standard retroactively across the city.
So, I don't know if like I say if you have a copy of that, but there's a
a governing body, the International Swimming Pool and Spa Code section 305.1
that says that if a spa has a lockable safety cover or a pool has a powered
safety cover meeting the ASTM F1346 standards, a perimeter fence shall not
be required. So, the state of Utah has adopted this
code as well as Cache County has adopted it and the majority of the
municipalities in Cache County. Um
and I can go over those um that that code that that the ASTM F1346
um it has certain requirements. It allows 485 lb to be on it without
collapsing. That's enough for two adults and a child.
It requires um no water be shown. Um you can't get access to the water at
all. It also has it so the water can't sit on top of the cover. It seeps
through so there's not standing water. And then the last thing is it has a
lockable um
code, either a key lock or a code that has to be in um
visible to the pool. And that's how you open it and close it. So, that's what
the International Swimming Pool has uh code has recommended, the state of Utah
has adopted it, and Cache County has adopted it.
Okay. So, I don't Is that all I need to
» That's good. All right. Thank you for your explanation.
Any comments on this item? Again, this is a public hearing. We will
we'll talk about this and vote on it tonight. So, we'll take some action
tonight. Um
but this is just the public hearing part of it.
Yeah. That's okay. Go ahead and get it.
So, I'll go ahead and close item number five. That's the end of our public
hearings. We'll go to item number six.
Um item number six is resolution 06-2026
fiscal year 2026 budget adjustment. Providence City Council will view
review, discuss, and may take action on a resolution that adjusts fiscal year
2026 budget. So,
I will take a motion on this item.
» I will try. Okay. I [clears throat] make a motion that
resolution 06-2026 FYE 2026 budget adjustment um
be passed. Is that how we do it? Okay. To
be passed. >> I'll second that. Here we have a motion
and a second. Further discussion?
Brent, you have anything?
» He's muted. >> Okay.
Um Okay, we have a motion and a second. All in favor?
» I. >> I.
» Brent?
» He's trying to greet a groundhog at the airport, so it might be bedtime.
» The plane didn't come in till 7:00. >> Is he still muted?
» So, they're probably walking toward the
» But, you have three. >> Yeah.
» So, we have a quorum. >> Yeah.
» Okay. All right. We'll go ahead and
um No opposed.
Um motion carries. So, we'll close that item, go to item
number seven. Resolution 05-2026
certified tax rate. The City Council will consider for
adoption a resolution establishing the certified tax rate for fiscal year 2027.
I'm going to have Ryan explain this a little bit so that you understand why we
have to do this. >> Yeah.
So, [clears throat] what there is is there is
um a property tax rate. If we If we request
the property tax revenue of the amount of the previous year, then that is the
certified rate. If we increase the amount, then we need to go through truth
and taxation. So, this basically says we're only requesting of the residents
the amount of property tax we received in the prior year. So, that it's no
property tax increase um and that that's where we get the
truth of the uh certified tax rate. So, that that would indi- If we adopt it at
this rate, we have no property tax increase. That's what we're That's what
we're proposing. >> Okay.
So, I'll entertain a motion.
» I'll entertain a motion to adopt the um certified tax rate
for fiscal year 2027. But, I did Well, I'll make a comment
after that. >> Yeah, we'll we'll do it after.
Uh do we have a second? >> I'll second.
» Okay, we have a second. Um
comments, questions?
» Um I think just for the public's benefit, as as your value changes,
your percentage of property tax does not change we adopt the certified tax rate.
So, if the assessor changes the value of
your house, >> you will pay
» percentage of that value doesn't change. The actual number might change, but the
percentage does not. That
may be helpful. >> Correct.
Um >> Am I wrong?
» Y- Yeah, that's that's >> [clears throat]
» So, >> [gasps]
» so it is the to clarify that,
this is is across all all residents considered together. It would be the
same So, if you take the valuation of all houses, of all businesses,
and uh and you know, take take our property
tax, divide by all all value, then you get a rate.
Um if one person's house
goes up faster in value than than the average,
they may see a difference in theirs. So, um so there there might be So, if one
house, an individual So, on a on a macro level,
it that's correct. On a micro level, your house may increase value faster
than your neighbors, and so your tax may go up. Um the rate as as
as the values go up, the rate actually will go down every year. So, so the rate
declines. So, this is this is a less of a rate than last year. So, the rate is
actually lower. >> Okay.
» But the But the amount the the value of property tax is the same. And so, if
your if the value of your house went up, then your rate went down.
To get to the same number. >> Right.
» Does that make sense? >> Yes.
» And everybody understands that, right? >> It's okay.
» It is confusing. Um
» So, are you saying if the dollar value
assessed for my home goes up,
this dollar amount in this here doesn't change, Just my percentage of that
dollar amount changes. >> Yeah, you may pay more than your
neighbor if your house value goes up faster than theirs does.
So, it may change yours on an on an individual basis, it may change yours.
All residents, if we had more businesses coming in faster, that new business new
new uh uh and the value of of our business was growing faster than the
residents, then the residents all would get reduction in taxes.
» It's a dollar amount getting getting all this alteration. Man, I'm glad I don't
do this. >> [laughter]
» Same dollar amount. Wow, that's a nightmare.
» I think my comment ins- uh
added confusion. I might have meant to be clarifying, but
» [laughter] >> I understand.
» it's good question. >> I understand what you're saying.
» That's why we have Ryan do this stuff. >> It leads to clarification. Yeah.
There you go. >> One one step.
» Yeah. >> Okay, so we have a motion
and a second on the table. Further discussion?
All in favor? >> I.
» I. >> I.
» Oh, good job, Brent. Thank you. Um
uh motion carries. So, we'll close that on the certified tax
rate and go to item number eight. Um ordinance
09-2026 fiscal year 2027 final budgets.
Providence City Council will consider for adoption a resolution
uh
approving the fiscal year 2027 final budgets for all funds.
So, I will entertain a motion.
» I'll make a motion that we adopt um ordinance 09-2026
fiscal year 2027 final budgets for fiscal year Yeah, fiscal year 2027.
» Okay. >> I second it.
» So, we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?
Okay. All in favor? >> I.
» I. >> I.
» Thank you. >> Be sure and speak into the microphones.
» Okay. Are you hearing me okay? >> I am hearing you, Mayor. Yes, very good.
» Thank you. >> It's cuz I'm right on top of the mic.
» [laughter] >> Okay.
Um let's go to item number nine. Ordinance
07-2026 parcel 02-095-0031.
It's a rezone. Providence City Council will review,
discuss, and may take action on an ordinance authorizing the rezone
of parcel 02-095-0031
located in the general area of 96 North Main, Providence, Utah.
Approval of the ordinance will rezone the parcel from R112
to mixed use um
Planning Commission held a public hearing on May 13th with continued
discussion on June 10th and motioned that the City Council approve the
rezone. Motion failed two to three. So, that's where we stand.
Um the Planning Commission is a recommending body, not
an approval body. This the um City Council is an approval body.
So, um
this is the time that the council we've heard from lots of people. I bet you
we've had 25 letters. Um do we have anything
I am on the >> I've sent you all as of an hour before
this meeting. >> Okay.
So, we've all read the letters. We've all watched the planning commission
uh commissions and the meetings that have been held. We've
we've watched um and listened to you with your phone calls and the
things that you're concerned about. Um
because we've had two public hearings on this, I think I'm not going to have the
audience stand up. We've read all the letters. We know what how everyone feels
about everything.
And so, unless the council feels differently,
» Unless there's somebody here who hasn't sent something in.
» Yeah. >> Do we have anyone that has not sent
something in or not spoken at previous meetings?
We have two lonely hands. Three. Okay, I will take those three
um comments. So, you need to come up.
So, that's the criteria. If you haven't spoken and you haven't before and if you
haven't sent something to us, >> I have not done any of the following.
» Okay. >> Okay, am I good to
» You're good to go. We need your name. We need your name.
» My name's Owen Geddes. Um and I've been a citizen of the
historic district of Providence for my entire life. Um I want to give a little
bit of background on myself. I want to establish that I'm not repeating
anything that my parents are putting or showing to me. I care deeply about this
community and I am as civically engaged as I possibly can. Um I'll be
representing Utah at Boys Nation this coming July and meeting with our
senators Lee and Curtis. I'm also the student body president at Ridgeline High
School and I will be voting in the coming months. This proposed development
on 96 North Main, no matter how much thought or planning is put into it, is a
detriment to this community. It is merely a copout for the maximum
amount of units that he would like to put on the the the parcel
so he can make as much profit as possible. Um, in uh in the Planning and
Zoning Commission meeting on May 13th, Mr. Robin said himself, "People don't
realize that one of the buildings actually has three two-car garages along
the back of it that takes up the commercial space on the main level."
This shows how the garage space that is that can be used on this building will
take up the commercial space in the building, not allowing it to contribute
the described purpose of developing a a community walkable space and it will
just be used for garages for future tenants of the area.
Um, the economic viability of the area as
has been previously established as not conducive of building of businesses as
businesses in the past have left and our even our own sitting building has left
that street. Um, this direction that this project sets our city on is not one
that young people like myself are interested in.
Personally, I have loved the community that I've lived in and especially the
historic charm that it has built and left an impact on my own life. Um,
by putting in high-density housing on a spot zone in the middle of our
community, it destroys that charm and ultimately detracts from future home
buyers who want to move into the community.
Um, it also does not even address the
affordability issue that I will have to face in my future as I seek for a home
no matter how much the the developer may say that they will be affordable units.
Um growth and construction are a necessary part of any city, but they
need to be put in proper areas for it to contribute to the health of the city.
This development is completely irresponsible and is not put in a
location that will be to the benefit of our community.
» Yeah, one minute. >> Does not address the purposes the
developer says, but contributes to safety concerns such as parking in our
bike lanes, which we have made a big issue in our community in trying to
allow cyclists to have the safest route they can.
Um As established before, it will not
likely even stand as a commercial center because of the garages that will be put
underneath in lieu of the commercial space.
I urge you council to follow the council of the planning and zoning commission as
they've reviewed and looked at this issue greatly. I also urge you guys to
council together as our elected officials. Um there are you have been
voting in by the people of Providence. Um and I urge you to follow each other's
council and not the council of other city employees or the opinions of other
city employees who may push you in one direction. I plead you
with you to see the damage that this development will cause and by denying
this rezone, you will protect our historic Providence. Thank you.
» Thank you.
Okay, who was the other hand? Okay.
So, you've not spoken in another meeting, not sent anything.
» Honestly, this is not planned or rehearsed at all. I
I uh >> We need your name.
» I'm Christopher Brown. I live on on Sears Street in Providence.
Um and I guess
my thoughts are uh
Jody, I know Jody. Jody's actually a really good guy. I don't I don't think
anyone who opposes this knows Jody very well. But, Jody doesn't do things
just to be the most profitable possible. I don't know if you guys are aware of
his developments, what he has done. He is a remarkable developer. He's a
remarkable um builder. He does a good job.
And his communities feel wonderful. Jody has a great vision for what looks
good, what feels good. I know he cares about the community. He cares about his
neighbors. He cares about people in general.
That's That's just who Jody is, for anyone who doesn't know him.
Uh one of the nicest guys, truly you'll ever meet.
Uh I served my mission in Guatemala. Guatemala has something really special
that we don't have here. They call them tiendas.
Uh on just about every street, every block in Guatemala, they have
a house where you they don't have all these zoning ordinances and all these
rules, and they have a house where people can just go and buy whatever they
want. And it is so incredibly convenient uh to go buy a soda or go buy uh
some rice or beans or whatever. And I I don't think Jody's going to sell rice
and beans. He may, who knows. Uh
you know, there's kind of this we kind of get in these opinions where
you know, we just don't want to change things. We don't want to change the
status quo. Um
but you know, I think this would be remarkable for the community, uh for the
schools, for convenience, uh to stay away from the
traffic of I mean, the traffic is getting horrible
over there. And you know, if you want to get a
haircut or buy a soda or something,
yeah. it would be awesome. I I think the Logan Marketplace that's over there
is incredible. I love stopping there and grabbing something every now and then. I
don't think any of us think that it's a huge eyesore
on the community. You know, if you do, I guess everyone's entitled to their
opinion, but I think it's a huge benefit uh for that community. People stop and
use it uh
all the time. And so,
you know, I I hope you guys would consider it. Uh
I think it would be worthwhile. Uh as far as housing is concerned, you
know, when you get a lot of public opinion on housing, you know, if people
like don't build these apartments or don't do this, don't do that, you know,
if you really care about affordable housing, you have to build houses.
Doesn't matter if they're more expensive, doesn't matter if they're
less expensive. If there's more supply, cost of housing goes down.
And if people don't increase the supply, then the cost of housing goes up. That's
just what happens. That's just economics. And part of the problem with
affordability is that we there's too many rules and stipulations
for builders to build, and they just can't build enough housing to get cost
down. You Ir- Irregardless of cost of construction, if there's
lots of supply, cost of housing will go down. That's the
way economics work. So, anyway, that's all the time I need.
» Thank you for your comment. Okay, who was the other hand?
Okay.
» Hello. Uh I'm Justin McMurtie. Um I have not commented as of yet or
sent an email, but I would like to
voice my support for the rezone with one structural condition.
Uh for context, I'm a Cache Valley native. I grew up in Millville.
Um and I moved away to go to school and I ended up in Provo working at tech
companies down there for a decade. Um I lived in Provo for a decade and one
of the main inspirations from the proposal is Provo Center Street.
Um I lived very close to Provo Center Street for a decade.
Uh and I loved the area. It was walkable, it was human scale, and the
shops and the housing close together made the area feel alive.
It wasn't a bunch of people pretending their neighbors don't exist in their
houses. People came out and did things together.
It was cool. Um
that is hard to build and I think it's worth encouraging here.
Uh much of the opposition I've heard points out that it would be better if it
was a block to the south. Um and maybe that's true, but I I don't
think that we should let perfect become the enemy of good. If this is good for
the community, then it should be good whether it's a block away or not.
Um but a the condition here, the structural concern that I have that was
voiced, is a rezone outlasts a specific proposal.
Uh and mixed-use entitlements attached to the land and run to any future owner
and not just Jody. Um
that the vision is excellent, uh but the zoning rezoning alone doesn't
guarantee it gets built. Uh so I ask that a development agreement
is adopted concurrently if it's is if the rezone goes forward
so that the it's structure and structures of the rezone doesn't take
effect until that agreement is recorded. Uh that way it would bind the property
and any future owners or any future developers to the standards that are
agreed upon. Um ideally, it would set specific
binding standards that spell out what's prohibitive prohibited, not just
describe the the vision that we that I like at least.
Um I will add that it's not right next to my property,
but I lived right by something like this in the past, and I would support it if
it was proposed next to my property. Uh, with that in
with that pr- uh,
binding agreement in place, I would strongly support this.
» Thank you. Okay.
Um, Sue, you haven't written in and you have
Okay. >> Well, I don't have it written in, but I
say something. >> Okay.
So, this is the last.
» My name's Janice Rasmussen, and I wasn't planning on talking, but I feel the
need. I would hope that this rezoning is
voted down. I live across the street from where the
developer wants to put it. I have an issue with
everything that is going across the street, and it doesn't matter whether
he's a nice guy or not. A lot of people are nice, but don't want this.
Um, I've lived there for lots of years
across the street as well as my neighbors.
And um, it's just it's a good idea that he
wants to >> Janice, just a minute. Can we have the
» hear everybody.
» Go ahead, >> Janice. I
I'm got distracted. I um,
don't agree with the rezoning. I He's got a nice idea, just not in the place
that he wants to put it. And as far as the email that he sent out where the
places was just going to become dilapidated and everybody was going to
die, that was pathetic. That's worst email I've ever seen.
And I I uh, um,
I would just like to ask him and those people that were here at those two
meetings ago and everyone, would you like this across street from you?
Thank you.
Okay. Um,
with that, now is the time that the council will
discuss and make decisions. We've We've been
immersed in this for 3 weeks. Jody, did you want to say anything before we do
our discussion?
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Excuse me. Excuse me.
This is my meeting. Well, he has, but he's also the
developer. And so,
» He paid the application. >> He paid the application. It's It's his
time. So, let's give that to him. >> I have a full presentation, but it
doesn't necessarily seem appropriate to >> don't need all of that. We've We've
listened to all of this. >> I would love to just address a couple of
of um, the comments that just came in and
I'll I'll keep it brief. Uh,
people have misrepresented the information that I've put out. I have
the plans on my website, so they can see them. Um, I said a portion of one of the
buildings has garages in it. There's still about 1,800 square feet of
commercial space across three storefronts
that are very viable small business locations um,
with over 300 in-house businesses in in Providence. It seems like there's a need
for this type of location. Um,
people have have said that it's not a viable location.
Um, Looking at Providence Main Street,
there's no available commercial space. Yes, there's vacant space,
but the owner, for whatever reason, does not
have that up for rent. So, we, in our research,
the location is very viable. We've also had
um entrepreneurs from the exact types of
businesses that we're looking for in their community engaging businesses
show interest in in being there. And this is
cafe, florist, um uh
bakery, uh soda, uh ice cream shop.
And we've actually had a couple of others that aren't on the list and
aren't in our top tier of of what we think is the most community
engaging. Um
I understand that the neighbors have have concern
about uh this project.
We've designed this from the beginning to be uh pedestrian scale. And it is is
smaller and further away from the property line
than what current zoning allows. From it's smaller
and further away from our neighbors. It's shorter than what we could build
there with current zoning. We also um
have are taking steps to ensure that it's not an eyesore to neighbors and
that that it doesn't adversely affect the neighbors. So, we want this to be
something that the entire community can enjoy, including the residents on Main
Street. So, um
with that, I I doesn't seem like it would be fair for me to put any other
points out other than addressing the concerns that were brought up today. So,
» Thank you. >> Uh
» unless you guys have any questions for me.
» I think we've I think that we've all been immersed in
this for >> Okay. Thank you very much.
» Thank you.
Okay. Um
You want to talk about it? You want to do a motion?
» I'd rather discussion. >> Yeah. I think discussion.
» Okay. >> Can Brent still hear us?
» Brent, are you still on there? >> I am.
» Okay. >> Yes, I am. I I
Can I speak now? >> Yes, please.
» Okay. Um as I have reviewed and reviewed and thought about
this, uh in 2000
uh master plan, mixed use was not even a consideration.
In 2010, mixed use was indicated on the west side of
Gateway Drive. This what we're doing at this point in
time has extended ramifications up into the residential area, which uh most of
us are familiar with. Now, there is Main Street, but pretty much all the
businesses have left Main Street. Anyway, I think what uh as I've studied
it, Brian Ryan brought a new
document of 2010 under Mayor Ron Lichty to light,
and I think there's some uh things that need to be
severely considered with it, where it goes, what it does.
And my motion, and I'd like to make a motion,
is that we table this until we can first off have a full council.
Because we as a council were elected to vote.
And there's five of us, and the reason there's five of us, so that uh we can
make a decision, a majority of the council people.
So, consequently, I would like to make a motion that we postpone this. The second
thing of it is, we need to also really think about the ramifications.
One of the In that study in 2010, one of the things I looked at was if an
option was selected in there, and I don't know if that option was selected.
There were three options. It could put uh
this uh
mixed use up as far as uh almost to Von's Park.
There's areas that are circled for that. I look at the Renner Connect property, I
look at the Bear property, I look at Marlin House property. I look at uh the
one kitty-corner across the street from me, they're tearing down the old Rath-
Rathaus, and there's a lot there.
There is so much that could be plopped down in this city,
so much extended ramifications. We really need to make sure that we're
making a correct decision, an informed decision, and I don't think
we're to that point right now, and I'd like to postpone it until we can have a
full council vote and uh a full council understanding of our ramifications.
That's my motion. >> Okay, we have a motion.
Do we have a second? >> I'll second.
» Yeah, if he doesn't mind. >> Okay, we have a
motion and a second. Any discussion?
» I just think given the the
community engagement and the strength of that,
from what I've seen, this is the most um
emails I've gotten about a singular subject, and the most phone calls, and
in-person visits uh on my time on the council, and I
think it is only fair that we have the full elected body here
to make that decision. Um
so I would agree with Brent. >> Okay, so you're
We have a motion and we have a second. Any further discussion?
» Um
I mean, I agree that we should probably all be here. I have done some research
on that um 2010 landscape architecture um document.
» hear what the response was.
» Janelle is is making a comment. Sorry.
» Okay, sorry. >> is like tied down to the ground, so it's
fine. I don't don't think so.
I think it's so I ask less questions, you guys.
» [laughter] >> It was purposeful.
It might be might be pur- purposeful. I I think it's good to have the vote of
the entire council. Um I have done some research on the 2010 document that Brent
mentioned, um and and studied the minutes from
2010, which um
I feel like that document was a guide a guidance for establishing our
mixed-use district. Um but
it it wasn't like incorporated into any of our master
plans or any of those things. I I don't know that
it has any impact or like weight on >> Any binding and any binding
» I mean, it has a lot of ideas, but it it doesn't really have any binding power
or direction within it. So, I mean, I feel comfortable stating that, but
um I'm prepared to vote, or I'm I'm fine to
wait. >> Okay.
» Either way. >> So,
my concern is I know that had a lot of residents over the years that I've been
here concerned about changing residential
areas to commercial or mixed use and they have their various reasons for it.
I've listened to talked to people listened to people's comments. I've
talked with people. I have um
on both sides of this of the issue and uh
um I have a tendency to always take the
opposite view of whoever's talking to me.
And I can poke all kinds of holes in everyone with the exception of the
people that all they said was I
I support this or I'm against this. Well, okay, great. I can't poke a hole
in that, but I can poke holes in people's rationale all over the place,
both sides. And some of the the arguments just don't
hold any water or merit for me. And so um
I'd like to wait till we have all all of this here.
I think that'd be really the the wise thing to do. um
I think that you know, me personally, I have agreed with many people. I'd like
to keep the residential residential multi-use on the west side
um because there was space there at the
time. That's just my the way I've I've leaned
and I've heard a lot of really good arguments for this. I've heard a lot of
I think fair arguments against it that I share some of those concerns to be
honest with you. And so I think putting it off until we
have the everyone here and make sure that we're
not just doing something we want. We're doing what's right
uh for Providence. >> Okay.
Call for a vote. All in favor?
» Of his motion? >> Of his motion.
» I >> I
» Nay. Okay.
So, we have three four and and one against, so
the motion passes. So, we will put that off until next month.
Okay, let's go we'll close that item and go to item
number 10. This is [clears throat] ordinance 10-26
PCC um 10
-12-3 and 4 amendments.
Providence City Council will review, discuss, and may take action on an
ordinance regarding proposed code amendments to extend the sunset day for
the incentive to record the deed restriction for an IADU
or an ADU. Um Planning Commission
held a public hearing on June 10th and recommended the City Council approve the
amendments. So, Ryan do you just want to quickly explain this or or Skarda,
whichever one? >> So,
» [clears throat] >> I I can explain a little and then Skarda
can add as he likes. Um
the this we offer a $100 incentive to those that will
provide proof of deed restriction. Um it had a
it had an expiring clause um of May 15th, 2026 and we're extending
that to May 15th, 2028. We had between six and eight, I think, um that utilized
this and we were able to to have them record
um and have that deed restriction. The deed
restriction is is that a um one of the units will be
owner occupied. Um so, anyway, we've had some success
with that. Before we hadn't had a lot of people, maybe they put in an ADU or or
that and didn't record. This this gives us an ability to have that compliance
recorded and gives an incentive to do so.
Sometimes the carrot works better than the stick and this is what we're
proposing is a is a carrot to be able to get compliance rather than
a punishment stick. So, and it's worked. So,
» And we're doing this because the state has asked us.
» The state has asked us to have >> They have [cough and clears throat]
asked us to to try to work for affordable housing and and some of that
comes into the requirements for ADUs and while they haven't specifically asked us
to to put a $100 incentive in, they have asked us
to find ways to to get more housing and and more affordable
and ADUs are
allowed by by state code.
So, we're trying to find the carrot and they've asked us to do carrots and
sticks and so we are well within what the state is
asking us to do, but maybe not directly exactly that this is what they have. We
have some guideline and this is what we're
trying to propose within that. >> So, this helps us get to our
affordable housing commitments. Okay.
» It's a tool. >> It's a tool.
I like tools. >> [laughter]
» Okay. So, we need a
a motion on this. If somebody would make one.
» Can I see the motion number?
» Yes. We need a motion on this to take action.
To approve the ordinance. >> I'll make a motion that we approve
ordinance >> ordinance 10-2026
PCC 10-12 three and four amendments to extend
the sunset on the IADU or ADU um
» reward >> Yeah, reward, sure.
» [laughter] >> Incentive, that's a good word. Let's go
with incentive. Okay. >> So, we have a motion.
» Second. >> And a second.
Further discussion. All in favor.
» Aye. >> Aye.
» Brent.
» Aye. >> Thank you.
Motion passes. Um
We'll close item number 10 and go to item number 11. This is a swimming pool
fence regulation amendment. Provident City Council review, discuss,
and may take action on the ordinance regarding proposed amendments
to PCC 5-4-7 Resident application is requesting a
change to the city code to allow a waiver of the perimeter fence
requirement when a specific pool cover is installed.
So, um
who wants to take this?
» I think the applicant is I think the applicant has a chance.
Maybe she has some more to say. I I don't know that I have anything more
from my side. The staff
I think the staff uh is fine with what has been said, but if she wants to say
more I that's fine with us. >> You don't have to, but if if there's
something else you want to add to it. >> want to make sure the retroactive's
understood why I'm pushing for it cuz it's not just affecting me. There's
dozens of pools. And I think it would just make it more, like I said, equal
just to if you have this certain cover you're good. Just and then move forward.
I don't That's it. >> Thank you.
» And just to to balance the comment the staff supposed to a retroactive, but
um we're fine with whatever you do on the
other one. The retroactive creates a administrative
paradox. It creates a problem because any citations that have been gone would
then be reversible. Any Any action that has been
We would prefer that to go to the judge to to have the ability to take those
case by case and and settle that as as that goes. So
» Well, it's a precedent. >> Yeah, and and we have varying laws
all the time and we we we administrate administrate that all
the time. So that's not really a an issue for us. So
» Okay. So
um you want to discuss first? You want to
Do you have any comments or >> I have a legal question.
Um with our with our city code we can be
more restrictive but not less restrictive than state code. Did I say
that right or did I reverse the order? >> Yeah.
» Okay. So um
the timeline on which the state adopted their regulations shouldn't have
bearing on something more restrictive. Is that
» That that is correct. >> Okay.
Say that again. The Can you say it again?
The the timeline that the state adopted their regulations
for the ASTM F130 1346 certified safety covers
um if our code is more restrictive than
that
it it's not
uh how do I say that? It doesn't affect the timeline that the
state adopted their code. >> Okay.
Okay.
» Can I comment? >> Comments?
» Let's just maybe comments and questions. So, I I look in terms of the idea of the
fence is to protect outsider kids from wandering in there, right? So, the
purpose of the cover is to do the same thing.
Um Now, if somebody's gate
is left open, I know they're supposed to automatically close, but
people have ways of holding them open. And that gate is left open, there can be
a and there there's no adult supervision and a kid wanders in there and and gets
into the pool who shouldn't and there's a tragedy.
Um there's a uh a liability with that.
Um perhaps there's even fines if uh uh someone sees it open and
they get turned in or whatever you call it.
So, with a the cover
if my 10-year-old kid decides to go out
swimming and knows the combination of the lock, has a key, or knows the code
and opens it up and swims for a while and then comes in the house and goes to
the bathroom, gets a drink, says, "You know what? I'd like a sandwich." and
makes a sandwich and then sits there and eats it. In the meantime, it's uncovered
and some a 4-year-old walks in, sees that a
tempting pool, walks over there, falls in the water, drowns.
Um there's a challenge there. It's tragedy. Um
I don't know what the laws are regarding that, who regulates to make sure that
it's covered when there's no adult supervision if that's what the intent
is. Who uh make sure that nothing
happens because it's now an open pool with no barrier
at all. So, I'm a little concerned about
liability with that, not just for the uh
the pool owner, but for the city allowing it.
Have there been issues? I I would like to know a little bit more about it.
» We have Shariq here. Can ask him.
» It certainly could be a liability issue for the homeowner. Um
although so would the maintenance of their fence
or whatever um protective measure they're taking be
Where it is authorized under state code to be allowed permissible
um and the concept is a pool cover that does meet the
the safety requirements.
I would be hard-pressed to find a way that the city could be liable for
allowing something that's the state allows as a safety measure.
Um but it it's
a worthwhile concept to consider because we can be more restrictive still. Um but
I don't think that it's a liability issue for the city.
» Okay. I was just want to make sure that >> [clears throat]
» The other thought I had was if we um
» [sighs] >> I struggle when
people follow the ordinance or the codes that we have when they build
and then they don't follow a portion of it and put it off, put it off, put it
off, and put it off and then want to change or amend an
ordinance so that they don't have to follow it when that could have been done
or should have been done however many years ago when the pool was put in. I
struggle with that a little bit. Um it seems like it's
um I don't have to. City won't do anything. I won't do I don't have to
worry about that. Until the city says, "Okay, we're tired of waiting."
And then they try to fight it a different way.
So, it's a little bit frustrating for me, and I don't mean offense by that. I
understand it. >> I get that.
Cache County's ordinance is the same as the state of
Utah's. So, I think there's some disconnect there where we rely Don't we
rely on Cache County inspectors for Providence? So, I just think there's a
disconnect and a misunderstanding. It's not like trying to um skirt any
responsibility. It was just this is what Cache County We were told by Cache
County inspectors. And then so, that's that's why I feel
» find out till later after it was your pool was in that Providence City was
going to have an issue with it. Is that what you're saying? Okay.
» I understand. >> And you talk to anyone that installs
these covers and they say the same And I know you can't rely on a you know, a
contractor, but the inspector from it's just a disconnect with Providence
and Cache County. >> Didn't you have to have a building
permit to do that? >> Uh
» To put your pool in? >> It was I think it was under when we did
our house. Honestly, I didn't I would have to check.
» Yes, they do have to have a building permit for the pool. They may have
combined all of the zoning and permitting at the same time. But, they
do have to have a building permit for a pool.
» Okay. Thank you.
» And the building permit would spell out local rules, I imagine, or
» The zoning clearance would specify local rules. So, they would have had to go
through a zoning clearance as well. Which would have identified I'd have uh
would have identified those. >> That's why we went to the unified code
so that >> Right.
» factor doesn't have to know 25 different >> It's also the responsibility of
the the contractor to follow city code.
» We've dealt with issues with this with retaining walls in the past, too.
Closer. I'm going to have to climb up on the desk, you guys.
» Or you can yell. >> I can yell.
» Maybe Brent will stretch his >> Will Brent stretch? That is closer.
I feel like this is >> than yours is.
» Okay.
Does anybody else have any comments or >> Just one more thing that the um
uh I understand the idea of making it retroactive.
If we don't make it retroactive, what does
that do as far as the responsibility of the homeowner?
Um because they've already got it and they don't have a fence. Does Does the
fence go become Installing a fence become retroactive? Is that something
that the homeowner can take up in in before a judge?
What's the course at that point? >> I would think that could be adjudicated
right at before a judge and they could say the rule changed and let's look at
it. >> Yeah, at that point the judge could and
I I would say that, but I believe the judge could if there was a citation,
they could issue it with prejudice and and then we couldn't go back to
the site again. At that point, if it's if
it's released with prejudiced, then we can't we can't do it, right?
That's Is that accurate?
» So, just to walk through through it briefly, a
if something is legalized during the pendency of an action, the action can
still be prosecuted normally outside of making it retroactively le-
legal, uh especially for an administrative
violation, and the judge can decide base or even the prosecuting body
can decide under their discretion whether subject the legal change they
decide that it should be dismissed or
if it they find that it's been more of a willful violation that's gone on for
years and kind of what the council member was alluding to that
it appears that this is just pushing against the city, pushing, push, and
then finally a citation has come up and I, "Okay, I need to fight this somewhere
else cuz I'm going to lose at court because
I've obviously not put up my fence that I've been notified about." Um
that the court can take that into consider- It's more on the judicial
branch of the city um
to be making those decisions even if the law changes
unless the council tries to bind the judiciary's hands by making it
retroactive. >> Thank you.
» So, if those cases are dropped or let go, then
it effectively makes that retroactive at least for the person that's in process
of of being prosecuted or or >> It would make it future prosecution or
future wouldn't wouldn't be there. It wouldn't change if they had had a
previous penalty or previous something done. It would make future prosecution
of it. >> Right. So, it's not
» Right. >> Okay.
» Which that's how pretty much all of our code adoptions work. They you're you're
grandfathered in before the date of adoption.
And even with a building permit, if we are massaging code and adjusting things,
if you've had your building permit issued, that's the code that you're held
to. You don't get to change to what's been adopted in process.
Right? I mean so
» I'm I'm ready to make a motion if you want.
» Okay. Um I was asked Brent. Brent, do you have
anything you want to say?
You have to unmute. >> It's been very hard for me to hear
what's been said. But I I feel that uh the code up to this point was the code.
And uh anybody participating in any event that has the regulations in
Providence that needs to make sure they understand
and follow the code. Uh where we go from this point
I don't uh have any direction other than I don't know what Ryan has said if they
received a citation then it becomes an issue where they have a chance to
resolve it with a judge. And I mean, knowing the code has changed
if the judge would allow a locking cover with a lower putting in a fence at this
point in time that would be the decision that he makes and it's not we're not
blanketly saying well, let's make this retroactive
nobody else uh or nobody in the city had to worry about it after this time.
I think we need to look at it kind of on a
on [clears throat] a basis of uh
that's that's my basis. >> Okay.
So, Janelle's ready to make a motion. >> I'll make a motion that we adopt
ordinance 08-2026 PCC 5-4-7 swimming pool fence
regulations amendments to be in line with state code.
Um uh
omitting the retroactive language in the ordinance
um and letting that be
judicially handled. Okay, so we have
» resolve any ambiguity issues. >> Do we have a motion a second? We have a
motion. >> I will second that with that
uh change. >> Okay.
So we have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Brent? >> No no more discussion.
» Okay. All in favor?
» Aye. >> Aye.
» Okay. Motion carries.
Thank you for going through the process.
Um we'll close that item and go to item number 12.
Moving right along. Um item number 12 is resolution 04-2026
non-binding library ballot question. Providence City Council review, discuss,
and may take action on a resolution requesting a non-binding vote ballot
question on the 2026 election to assess
support of for a property tax increase to fund the city library.
So Ryan?
» I don't want to cover that.
» I mean we've talked about it the last meeting and
we've come to the resolution. This is what the county needs in order to put
this on the ballot come fall. Um preferably before July 31st, so the
sooner the better. I'll get this into their hands if you guys approve it. If
you like the language, this is what uh we came up with with our city attorney.
Um and and from there.
» Okay. So,
um I'll entertain a motion.
» I'll make a motion. >> Okay.
» Um a motion that we approve item number 12 resolution
04-2026 non-binding library ballot question.
» Okay. We have a motion. Do we have a second?
» Actually, yes. I second that. >> Okay.
We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?
» Um I'm okay to massage the language a little bit myself, but
» You want to suggest some changes to it?
» Yeah, I mean, do you think that it's necessary to add all of the language
about maintenance staffing improvements? Um
Does that make the question cumbersome? Or should we just simplify it and say,
"Shall Providence City fund and operate a city public library by levying a
property tax estimated at about 50 you know, with an
estimated tax of $55 per year, roughly $4.60 per month
for a home with a 5,000 500,000 market value?"
And ask if they're for or against that. >> Can you change for or against? Or does
it have to be yes or no? >> I think the ballot reads for or against,
usually. Doesn't it? >> Yes.
I don't know if that's statute if it has to be that way.
But that's how they that that's the normal nomenclature for
it. >> So, Janelle, your your concern is that
you're we're just putting a lot of extra words in there that it might make people
a little confused about it or >> Yeah, I mean I think that the the more
simple the statement you know, the more direct it is to the
public, but
I'm fine with making that change, but >> Yeah.
» Anybody? >> Yeah, I mean I made the motion
to approve as it is, but I I think also the simpler
the simpler the better is
also fine with me as long as what
do we think legally that we have to have all of that like
you asked? I don't know what the >> Do you think we need to add any context
to the question? That the county's planning to end
funding for the library and for Providence to
have a dedicated library. Do we need I mean
I feel like sometimes we make the assumption that everybody knows why
we're proposing a property tax because we're up we're up to our eyeballs in the
issue sometimes, but maybe adding some context to the
question might be helpful as well. >> So, something like due to the cessation
of funding by the county by Cache County
should Providence City consider imposing a new property tax levy to fund the
operation of
a city public library
which is estimated to cost the owner of a primary residence with fair market
value just to the end there. Would something like that work for you?
What do you think? >> Yeah, I mean I don't think we need to
put in the fair market value language, but
But so do we do we need to
okay the concept and we can massage the but
» I think Mayor Drew had a question if you >> Mayor.
» Um just a suggestion. Uh This raises a Janelle raises a good
point. Um
I know in in the past ballots have had Sorry about that. I'm It's been a while.
Um Ballots have information booklets that
come with the ballot and it's got candi- Sometimes they have candidate statements
and when there's an issue on the ballot, it explains the issue.
I think it leaves a lot out when you just say one sentence and it says,
"Well, the county's dropped funding." Um
I don't know and I don't know if you could put a QR code on the ballot and
say for more information, you know, go to this or link or go to this scan this
QR code. Just so it would explain
you know, the issue the council is dealing with and is asking the voters
for advice on. >> Okay. Thank you for the feedback.
Okay. What does everybody think?
» Do you know if that is a possibility? >> Um I do not know, but they did say
however it does need to be kept simple as if if we do go on to a second page,
it's going to cost quite a bit. So, they want it just to be a a
statement as it's as
we're discussing, but the more we add to it
if there's a possibility for a second page
then they're going to charge us a lot.
» But but just is adding a link a possibility to to go to
where people can see something you know, in more detail and more
spelled out than we can put on the ballot question itself.
» Not that I'm aware of. I mean, we could include it in the question for more
information go to provincetown-ma.gov and we can have a dedicated webpage
um that explains what's going on. >> I thought the city had to be neutral,
but we couldn't really like do that.
» You can't advertise for or against. >> But if we're just providing information
» But if we keep it factual and just >> for or against the tax or the against
it, just >> Yeah.
» the why.
» I think the fact that it if you give the information,
this is what we're asking. Do you want to raise the tax this much or not?
That's really the question.
And the more we put in there, the then the more we have to add more explanation
we have to add on top of that.
So.
» Your motion. >> Um.
So, yes, add context or no?
» What are your thoughts? I I like it better when things are more
explained and spelled out specifically to people
because like you said we've been in this for some months
thinking it over and over and over and and we've had hundreds of comments come
in and surveys and we feel like sure, everybody knows what's going on, but
maybe everyone doesn't know what's going on and maybe we need to to add context
and add add the background story, but I I agree we need to be careful to not
make it sound like we're we're advertising a a specific position.
» Um.
» And then if you want to simplify this language
» Your mic doesn't work very well. >> Are you still thinking you want to
simplify the language as it's written?
» Yeah, I I think it the simpler the better.
And adding a brief statement of context, but I also think some of that might be
established in the I feel like don't they allow one letter for and one
against in the information pamphlet?
Is that true? >> For a referendum or an initiative.
» This will have an information pamphlet. >> I think my non-binding probably doesn't
give us that. >> [clears throat]
» Nine non-binding does not give us then we should probably have context.
And I don't I don't know that we can you really add a link to a ballot?
Is that done?
I've never seen that ever in all of my years of voting.
» Well, I just thought it was an interesting idea cuz then we could
go without the expense.
» But actually people should do their homework before they get to the
to voting.
» They check the box and move on. >> Yeah.
» Without the homework part. >> That's true.
Well, I mean given that because it's a non-binding vote, letters are not
um included in those. Is that correct, Ty? No No letters in a non-binding vote.
» They have no >> Okay.
I do think it would be helpful to give the public context. And if
I don't know, a link just sounds so weird on the ballot.
What do you guys think of that? Do you think that's something we can do or not
do? >> Then how would we do it? Well,
some of that's been in newsletters and things like that already, but do we just
double up in that month before the ballot goes out,
say you're going to be getting a ballot with
asking this question or something similar and
» not want to put us in an intersection that maybe we're trying to lobby for one
or the other. >> Yeah, well, I'm just saying keep it
fact-based and not position-based.
» So, what would you want in there basically?
I'm guessing uh a little history, why how we came to this point.
And then what?
» That's kind of what I thought you know I was alluding to with with
It doesn't say that that the county is ceasing funding. It doesn't say
Is that what you meant by when you kind of started down that path?
» Give context, so.
Is it appropriate to ask the public if they what they think is clear or not
clear? >> [laughter]
» Um we've got to turn this in, too. We've got a deadline to get it in.
» No, I mean just to get I'm on the topic, but
» Shariq. Come on over to this mic here.
» I I'll start with a really quick disclosure on this topic. I actually
serve on the Richmond City Library Board. So, I'm not counseling
any direction. I'm also a city employee. But
uh here. But
where the resolution already includes the whereases for why
the question would be raised if this were to pass.
I think that it would make sense to say
as the county library is closing, comma should
and then go ahead with the question. It adds maybe four words and gives at least
enough context that >> Clarification.
» someone reading it would know why they're voting on a new library,
especially if Providence doesn't have one.
» So, at since as the the county library is closing, and then this.
That gives some context. >> Yeah.
I mean, that makes sense. >> simple.
» It's simple. >> And would you still want to strike the
operation, maintenance, staffing language?
» Well, when you run a business or run anything,
operation, >> Right.
» staffing. >> Well.
» I mean, I guess that's a reflection that it's comprehensive
um funding
that covers all of those portions, whereas
the previous functioning of the county
library, we covered um like maintenance of the building, and
they covered staffing. So, I guess this does delineate that all of the services
will be taken over by the city. There's not like a share, like a cost share
involved in any of that. Well, let's say all services, that's easy to say without
without listing them out.
We could say that. Whereas the county library is closing,
shall should Providence City consider imposing a new property tax levy
to fund all services of a city public library,
which is estimated to cost
the homeowner with a home of this value this much money?
I mean, we could break it down and add add what that would be monthly, if you
think that's helpful, but
people can divide by four. >> divide that.
» [laughter] [clears throat]
» Okay. Do Do we have that then? >> Yeah.
» Okay. >> So, I'll amend my motion.
» motion. >> I'll amend my motion that the language
should say as the county library is closing, should
Providence City consider imposing a new property tax levy to fund all related
library services, which is estimated to cost the owner of
a primary residence with fair market value of $500,000, approximately $55.30
per year.
» Okay, we have a motion. We have a second?
» I'll second that. >> Okay.
» Or do I second? >> I second it.
» Do I second the amendment or
» I can re-second that. I can re-second that. I will second
that. >> Okay, we have a motion.
Did we do this properly?
Okay. We have a motion and a second. Any
further discussion? All in favor?
» I. >> I.
» I. >> Thank you. Motion carried.
» [laughter] >> We're getting a missionary homecoming.
» Can we yell congratulations or something?
» [laughter] >> Welcome home.
Okay. >> He got one and it was pretty exciting.
We're happy to have him back. Okay. I'm going to
I'll go mute. >> Okay, thank you.
Um Let's move to We'll close item 12 and go
to 13. Just Serve City Designation Proclamation. This is just a
proclamation.
And we need to take some action in order to do it. And David, this is yours. Do
you want to explain? >> This is
» Sure. Um Well, the last couple of years serving
on the council, I've been a part of uh my responsibility is is projects on
the Just Serve website, and we've had a lot of good success with
that and a lot of volunteers, and it's kind of
heartening to see the the number of volunteers that have come out even from
other cities and businesses both in and out of the city that have wanted to do
projects here and and help make our city a better place, and
um we've had youth groups, we've had
just individual people on their own, so all all kinds of uh volunteers. So,
I as I've been in touch with the Just Serve organization and representatives,
they have suggested that we become a Just Serve city and and offered uh
language in a proclamation that the mayor
to do that. Um I think it just goes
in conjunction with uh the service that's already been rendered and and
hopefully adding and expanding to that and making
uh having more projects in the future and and just recognizing
the work that's been done here of through our residents and
and then we'll be able to see that work move forward and and
I think that's about it. That's the the gist of it.
» The National League of Cities is promoting this as well
to have cities have this designation so that people know that we're service
oriented, so >> Yeah, and I hate hate to [clears throat]
admit, but we're not the first in the county that has done this, so there's a
couple of other cities that are already Just Serve cities, and that's okay,
we'll follow right along. >> don't want to be last.
» Yeah, if we're not last, then >> [laughter]
» then we're okay, but >> Okay.
» I've been excited to do those projects, and I I have gone on
city tours with Ryan, and he's been helpful to point out
things that need a little help, and and we put those up as they've come in. So,
that's been very helpful, too. >> Good.
» Okay, so I'll entertain a motion.
» I will make a motion that we um accept the Just Serve City designation
proclamation commitment to volunteerism in Providence City.
» Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second?
» I will second that. >> Okay, we have a motion and a second for
the discussion. All in favor.
» I. >> I.
» I.
>> Okay, thank you. Motion carries.
» [laughter] >> I think it's a party.
Okay, so that completes our agenda
tonight um for items. Uh we don't have any study items, no
other business or plans. Um this is a point where I would allow
public comment for anything that is not does not have to do with the items on
the agenda. So, if there's anyone who would like to
make comment, I would be willing to take that.
We need your name. >> My name is Autumn Matthews. I'm from
Logan, but tonight I'm here as a representative of Cash Water District. I
just want to make you guys aware of two programs. One is through the state and
one is through us. Uh the first is the landscape incentive program. I'm sure
you've heard of it. It's not a new program. However, um it's just a program
that will allow your residents to be eligible for a rebate of $2 per square
foot of lawn that they rip out and install water-efficient landscaping.
This does require you guys to adopt and water-wise ordinances that affects new
builds and will only affect the front yards of any residential homes that you
put in. Um there are some other minimum ordinance requirements. There will be no
lawn in new This is all new development. Park strips, no lawn in areas less than
8 ft in width. That just provides that the turf is functional. Um no more than
50% of front and side yard landscaped areas in new resi- residential
developments may be lawn. That's again, this is only affecting new residential
developments. Um and then in a new commercial and industrial,
institutional, and multi-family development common areas, the lawns
shall not exceed 20% of the total landscaped area outside of active
recreation areas. >> Move this down by your mouth.
» Thank you. >> You have to just practically eat these
mics. >> Yeah.
» Thank you. >> Um but yes, so if it's functional turf,
we do want it to stay if it's being utilized.
Uh however, that's kind of that program. The other program you guys don't have to
adopt any ordinances and it is our spring grass reseeding program. I do
have flyers for everyone. However, I am one short on the landscape. There's only
four of them. Um but it's our spring grass reseeding.
You don't have to reseed uh a bare spot. You don't have to rip out your lawn. It
is a water-wise grass grass initiative um for all Cache County residents. This
provides water-wise grass seed at a discounted price of $3.50 per pound.
Normally, it's 7 lb or $7 per pound, so it's half off.
Uh this grass is supposed to, depending on how our
residents water and that's where our side comes in with education, cut back
on water anywhere from 30 to 50% of a water usage in a residential home or
even a city property. Um it is available to cities as well if you guys are
looking to change out some grass to be more
water-wise, especially in a year like this. However, um we just are asking
that you guys spread awareness of this program as it's a it's a drought year
and we don't see that um not recurring again. So, we're just
trying to save water in the landscape um in Cache County and we appreciate you
guys and all you >> And this is available for people to like
go pick up? >> Yep. Yep, so it's through Anderson Seed
and Garden. Uh you fill out a form. We ask that you do join a water city. It's
optional whether or not you send in your water bills. If you're on secondary, we
don't ask that you do, but if you're willing to help us water savings in the
um we will ask for those. We just have your name, you'll get a coupon code, and
then you'll go to Anderson Seed and Garden and pick up how much you would
like. There's no end limit. We've had people um apply for 13 acres of this
grass seed, which is a lot of grass seed and then we've had
people apply for 50 square feet as well. So, it just kind of depends on what your
needs are. If you're looking to reseed spots in your lawn, um that's also
something that we can do. So. Um but we appreciate all you guys do.
It's a hard job to be on a city council and we appreciate it.
» Make hard decisions. >> Someone I can hand these to.
» Just hand them to >> Thanks, Brian.
» Thanks for sitting through all this to give us that information.
Um we have a question. >> Oh, yes.
Sorry. >> Come on up.
» Um those conditions for the landscape
incentive, are those recently updated? I feel like we've reviewed
» these in the >> They're not. So, what the state's
minimum requirements are the same as they were before, which is why we
understand that this program is not a one-size-fits-all. As some cities are
expanding, some cities aren't. However, I should have mentioned this, too. This
last this past legislative session in February
this year had did pass a bill. It was, I believe, House Bill 46 or 49. I should
know that. But, um that mandates water-wise landscaping. However, it
doesn't have any real teeth, and so, uh, the state has just asked us to push that
program again and say, "Hey, it's here. Use it, um, if you're if it's right for
your city." So. >> You said if you rip out grass, but this
is only for new construction, so they wouldn't even have any grass to rip out.
» Yes. >> So, so that I I guess I should clarify.
So, the residential program that >> [clears throat]
» it allows your residents to apply for, if they have existing grass, they would
rip that out and they'd be able to get a rebate from the state for $2 and $2 a
square foot of grass that they rip out and install waterwise landscaping. Those
are very specific. The state manages all that. They have people who come out and
check that, um, and preview the lawn beforehand,
uh, just to say, "Yes, we do have one." However, the ordinances that you guys
would adopt would be the ones affecting residential, um, new builds, and only
new builds. And so, they they're not eligible for the program. It's just
expanding with water in mind is kind of how the state has put it.
» Thanks for that clarification, Chris. >> Thank you so much.
» other questions? Okay. Sounds good.
» Thank you.
Okay. So,
any other com- public comment? Okay.
We'll close that portion of the meeting and go to staff reports.
» Well, I I have a lot more time for a staff
report than I thought I would, cuz I thought
» [laughter]
» I thought with that many agenda items, we wouldn't possibly have any
» way we would be at this time of the night.
» Um, so I I've planned to keep it fairly brief. Um, I
will report on a couple of things. One, uh, water. Um, Um, we have implemented,
a new metering system throughout the throughout the city
and it's gone fairly well. We have identified numerous leaks, contacted
those that that have them
and and in the last I would say in the last 6 months that we've been doing
this, uh, we've identified uh, numerous uh, locations and numerous
items. I would say we're in the tens of millions of of gallons
uh, of water saved through through leak detection
um, and uh, we have some that have cut their
water usage in half and um,
you know, we we have made a significant progress through through a strategic
process rather than broad restrictions and everybody, we've
taken the approach of taking the top 25 to 50 users,
uh, evaluating their their usage on a weekly basis
um, and to identify uh, where leaks might be occurring and we've contacted
them and many um,
many have been very positive uh, to that they didn't know that they
had a leak and they were able to fix it. We've had a lot of uh, we've had a lot
of good response in in that approach. So, uh, I just report that back that's
uh, success we're having. Um,
we are uh, we we had a successful um,
uh, cemetery clean up and we appreciate the help. Uh, we've had our cemetery
sexton since our last meeting uh, retired and at
30 years of service, uh, we certainly appreciate his service
um, and we are looking to to fill positions and and move things around to
to fill those um, fill that staffing. So, we have a couple
of temporary staffing that we've brought on from Kelly Temp Services that we're
filling that with and then we'll have uh work towards a permanent
uh, filling of of our of our staff vacancies. So,
um anyway, I think we've we've put in
sidewalk on 4th South. We've kind of finished the dirt side of the trail. We
are waiting uh for uh some signage. That's why the
trail hasn't officially opened uh because we're waiting for some signage.
Uh we are working on the pedestrian activated lights. We're working
um on several different fronts to
be able to to improve where we can and and to
continue following uh those plans that you've laid out for us. So, um anything
Ty, you have anything specific? Okay. Um that's that's our brief report
and we'll make it before 8:00. >> We're setting some precedents here.
» Yeah. >> Okay.
Um so, we will end
um staff reports. Um this time
the council needs to go into a closed session. So, we need a motion to go to
end this meeting and go into a closed session.
» The purpose is to discuss the purchasing of property to
» Right. I didn't I didn't say that. >> That's right. I just wanted to call it
out and make sure the public knows. That's fine.
» So, at this time we'll excuse everyone in the room and
going to our closed session as soon as we have a
» We'll make a motion we go into closed session.
» Okay.