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That would be great.

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» All right. We'd like to welcome everyone

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to the Pro Municipal Council Provo RDA

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governing board work meeting. It is May

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26, 2026 at 1:00 p.m. Um, we'll do a

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roll call of elected officials.

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Jeff Lock, Travis Oven,

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>> Becky Bogden, Patrice McKay,

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>> Craig Christensen, Gary Garrett,

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>> Rachel Whipple. Although this is a

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public meeting, only the presenters

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invited by the council may speak or ask

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questions, unless otherwise invited by

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the chair. Please wait to speak until

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called on by the council chair. When

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speaking, please be sure to use a

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microphone so that the record is clear

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and those attending virtually can hear

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you. Please also be sure to limit side

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conversations as they interfere with the

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audio recording. If you need to have a

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side conversation, please step out of

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the work meeting room. Is proposed that

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we approve the following minutes. April

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22nd, 2025 council meeting. June 17th,

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2025 council meeting. March 10th, 2026

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council meeting. May 5th, 2026 council

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meeting. May 12th, 2006 council meeting.

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And the May 12th, 2026 work meeting.

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Are there any objections or requested

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changes?

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See no objectual decodments approved by

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unanimous consent.

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All right.

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Go ahead.

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>> Have we been able to go through and make

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sure that we've got everything updated

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now on those minutes because it was kind

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of surprising to have a couple from last

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year.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Kevin.

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>> Uh so

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question I can ask Heidi, she's out of

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town now. Did hire a what's it called? a

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transcriptist

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to help to support her on getting a lot

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of these minutes, especially the large

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budget minutes from last year. I was

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seeing an influx of of nine meeting

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minutes.

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>> Okay. But we've got a transcriptionist.

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Uh but do we anticipate a few more

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coming along?

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>> Uh I suspect so. I think there's a

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couple she had maybe I think seven

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minutes from last year. She was a few

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and she through through four of them.

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>> Okay, great. Thank you.

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Jesse, you just want to give us an

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update on that? An email.

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All right. Our first ever business is a

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presentation on the voluntary stretch

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energy codes by Utah Clean Energy. And

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this was presented by Kevin Emerson, the

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director of building efficiency and

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decarbonization.

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Allison Burggoni, our clean energy

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associate.

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Thank you, council chair and council

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members.

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Um, thank you for the opportunity to

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talk with you today about this. Let's

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see. Am I in control for Okay. Oh, I

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pressed the wrong button.

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Um, yeah. So, my name is Kevin Emerson

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and um, uh, Allison and I are here, as

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you already said, to give you an update.

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Um, real quick, just for context, Utah

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Energy is a 25-year-old nonprofit,

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nonpartisan organization, and we are

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here to follow up with you um on a

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presentation that I gave to council in

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2023 when the council expressed interest

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in voluntary approaches to encourage

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construction of energy efficient and low

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emission buildings that help reduce

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utility costs and support housing

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affordability and also support local uh

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clean air bills.

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In 2025, uh, uh, we were awarded a

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three-year cooperative agreement, um,

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from the US Department of Energy, um, to

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work with Provo and three other

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jurisdictions in the Inter Mountain

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region. And so, since that time, we've

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been working with Provo city staff and,

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uh, local stakeholders to conceptualize

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this program. So, today, we want to give

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you kind of a refresher about this

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initiative. um a little bit of an update

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where we're at in terms of what we heard

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from local stakeholders and um staff

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about what incentives might be good and

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what construction standards might be

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appropriate. Um and then we have a

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request we want to make of you at the

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very end which we'll get to.

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So, as Kevin mentioned, this program is

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really geared towards empowering local

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governments to uh implement, excuse

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[clears throat] me, voluntary and

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incentive based programs that will make

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it possible for developers to construct

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emissions free homes that will keep

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Provo communities healthy and

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comfortable and safe for decades to

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come. As Megan also mentioned, for the

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last 16 months, Utah Clean Energy has

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been coordinating with Provo city staff

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on this effort. We've also been working

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with a number of other jurisdictions

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includ including Boise, Jackson, and

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Salt Lake City. We've had numerous

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conversations with Provo city staff

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including um planning, building

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services, economic development, and RDA

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to identify some priorities for a

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voluntary stretch code program as well

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as some possibilities that could be

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explored. Um we've also had numerous

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conversations with industry stakeholders

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to learn about what incentives would be

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most impactful for those folks. and

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we've spoken with community members who

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have emphasized affordability and the

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desire to seek pathways for existing and

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multifamily housing. We also have a

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robust technical team supporting this

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project. So in addition to Utah Clean

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Energy who is leading the project, we

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are also working with the Southwest

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Energy Efficiency Project, the New

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Buildings Institute and the

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International Code Council. And these

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folks are helping us uh provide

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technical support, trainings, and

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develop a program that will be

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responsive to feedback from industry and

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community stakeholders.

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>> Oh, you have the up. Thank you. Sorry.

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Um, so I wanted to talk a little bit

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about what this will mean for community

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members in Provo. And the short story is

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that it means housing that is not only

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more affordable but more affordable to

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stay in year after year and month after

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month through more affordable energy

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bills. So this chart over here, I'll

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just go over this briefly. This tells

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the story of a showcase home built in

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2024 by Garbette Homes. This was

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constructed in partnership with Utah

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Energy. Um it is all electric and meets

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the latest Energy Star standards. And

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this shows um the time that it took for

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the homeowners to see a positive return

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on their investment, which as you can

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see happened in only 1.4 years. Um so

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this is really demonstrating that low

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and zero emission homes can contribute

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to long-term housing affordability by

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reducing utility costs and the cost of

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living over the course of the lifetime

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of a home. And I also wanted to note

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that this home was not constructed in

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coordination with a voluntary stretch

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code program. So with voluntary

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incentives, we might be able to reduce

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um this upfront cost even more.

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So it's just really important to

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consider that the homes that we are

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building today will be in existence for

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decades to come. And this is a really

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crucial opportunity to futureproof homes

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and make sure we're building homes that

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can continue to serve Provo communities

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for for decades. I'll hand it back to

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Kevin.

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>> Thanks, Alison. So when um when it comes

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to in incentivizing above code

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construction, one of the most important

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considerations is where do we set the

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bar for a a building that's meeting a

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new standard to be eligible for

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incentives? What should that standard be

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and what should the bar be? So we've um

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based on feedback from local

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stakeholders um and including folks in

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um like planning and building services

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and such um they've said that they want

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to see flexibility and options. So we've

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done this uh as we've conceptualized

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this we've taken this into account in a

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couple ways. The first is that we're

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thinking about two tiers, a zero

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emission building tier and a low

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emission building tier. These are fairly

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similar, but um but I'll just describe

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how they're different real quick. Um a

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building that is a zero emissions

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building is really a building that's

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energy efficient. It uses the latest uh

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energy efficient electric equipment, so

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it doesn't have any on-site combustion,

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much like the city hall here. Um and the

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building also would be powered with

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clean energy, and that could be from a

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variety of sources. It could be from a

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program through Probo Power. It could be

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from rooftop solar or a combination of those. Um, a low emission building is

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very similar except that there may be

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some on-site gas used for heating or

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space heating or cooking. It might have

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dual fuel heat pumps, for example, for

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those of you who have heard about those.

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Um, and it might be partly powered with

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clean energy or it might be solar ready,

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for example. So, solar could be

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installed in the future if that's what

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the building owner decided to do. Those

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are the two tiers we're conceptualizing.

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And within Oh, go ahead.

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um powered 100% by honor off-site clean

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energy. Now, I know with this building,

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it's considered zero emissions, isn't

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it, Scott?

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>> But [clears throat] technically, Pro

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Energy isn't 100% clean energy. I mean,

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we do an amazing job and our our mix is

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really good.

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>> But so, how do you justify that?

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>> So, it all depends on what programs the

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utility has has to offer to help u make

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those the like the remaining care hours.

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just pretending that all their energy

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comes from one specific place like our

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off-site solar panel, right?

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>> That would be a good example if if the

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building energy use was participating in

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a utility program and is called the SH

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solar program that the energy generated

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through that program is associated with

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the energy consumed by the building. And

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so that that's an industry accepted

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practice for achieving

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>> even though actually it is not and there

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is nothing that is 100% weight.

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>> Well we [clears throat] we did use our a

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lotment for solar and towards the

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powering of this building. So this

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building is part of the aotment for

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solar base. So we we're not part of the

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mix. We we chose that

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>> at night we still use energy and it's

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not coming from solar. You know what I

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mean? Like if we're being technical.

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>> Absolutely. Generally over the course of

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the year is is what is what we look at

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to define it. Does it meet this

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definition? And you're right. Sometimes

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it'll be more, especially at night,

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it'll be more reliant on the standard

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electric grid, which every year is

275
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,880
getting cleaner, but Yeah. is not.

276
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,399
>> Yeah. We do a great job, but I just want

277
00:10:12,399 --> 00:10:14,160
to be clear that it's not

278
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:14,720
>> Okay.

279
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:15,279
>> Yeah. Yeah.

280
00:10:15,279 --> 00:10:16,640
>> And we'd like to recognize that Mayor

281
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,949
Marcia Jenkins has joined us.

282
00:10:20,959 --> 00:10:24,079
» Nice to see you, Mayor. Uh so so those

283
00:10:24,079 --> 00:10:25,839
are the two tiers we're talking about.

284
00:10:25,839 --> 00:10:27,920
But then within these two tiers based on

285
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,200
feedback that we've received and

286
00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:30,880
research about these kind of programs uh

287
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:38,880
from around the country, we're also um

288
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:40,720
conceptualizing a couple of pathways

289
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,959
that again give options for a developer

290
00:10:42,959 --> 00:10:46,480
or builder or a contractor. um one is

291
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,519
using the the most current um building

292
00:10:49,519 --> 00:10:51,440
energy code that's on the books today

293
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,600
plus utilizing a few what they call

294
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,000
appendices that are part of the code and

295
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,160
they're voluntary. It's just a a kind of

296
00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,680
a package of information kind of a

297
00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:01,519
recipe if you will about how to make the

298
00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:02,959
building from design through

299
00:11:02,959 --> 00:11:04,399
construction meet one of these two

300
00:11:04,399 --> 00:11:05,920
standards. So one is using the most

301
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,399
recent energy code which is the 2024

302
00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:10,320
IECC or international energy

303
00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,959
conservation code. Um, the other option

304
00:11:12,959 --> 00:11:16,079
is similar, but it's a little bit more

305
00:11:16,079 --> 00:11:19,120
flexible of what the baseline energy

306
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,760
code is. And instead of using four of

307
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,360
the

308
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,000
u the appendices that are part of the

309
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,880
2024 energy code, it's just using two

310
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,120
from um from the building code. So, it's

311
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:36,800
a little bit simpler. Um, and it we're keep in mind that we're putting

312
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,200
these ideas together in cooperation with

313
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:40,560
all of the four participating

314
00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:42,959
jurisdictions and trying to kind of find

315
00:11:42,959 --> 00:11:45,680
a model, a uniform model that could work

316
00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:47,839
for all jurisdictions as a model and

317
00:11:47,839 --> 00:11:49,920
then be customized. For example, here in

318
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,160
Provo City. Uh, but this would be one of

319
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,160
the other options. Um the last pathway

320
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,320
uh within the

321
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,320
either the lower emission tier or the

322
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,680
zero mission tier is simply referencing

323
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,079
existing industry recognized

324
00:12:06,079 --> 00:12:08,720
certification programs. Um the pro like

325
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,480
the benefit of this would be is there's

326
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,240
a lot of options for developers and

327
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:13,839
builders and architects to use that

328
00:12:13,839 --> 00:12:15,360
could meet a low emission standard or a

329
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,120
zero emission standard and there's

330
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,680
another entity doing the oversight to

331
00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:21,120
determine if the building meets that

332
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,959
standard or not. So it could streamline

333
00:12:22,959 --> 00:12:24,720
how the city implements this kind of a

334
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,800
program in the future. We also are

335
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,560
strongly recommending that of the

336
00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:30,639
certifications that are considered, we

337
00:12:30,639 --> 00:12:33,120
include those that have either zero or a

338
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,959
very low certification fee. Some

339
00:12:34,959 --> 00:12:36,320
certification fees that you probably are

340
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,639
aware of for for green buildings can be

341
00:12:38,639 --> 00:12:40,240
expensive, but there are some programs

342
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:41,920
that have very low or zero certification

343
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:42,959
fees, which we think are really

344
00:12:42,959 --> 00:12:44,720
important to include. The last thing

345
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,880
I'll mention here, uh, just building off

346
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,800
of, uh, the governor's recent, uh,

347
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,880
drought declaration that we think it

348
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:52,800
would be wise to incorporate water

349
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,800
conservation at the same time as this is

350
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,839
being, uh, explored. That could be just

351
00:12:57,839 --> 00:13:01,279
simply by noting water fixtures should

352
00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:04,800
be water sense certified or local scapes

353
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,120
should be used for landscaping. Um, or

354
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,959
we utilize coordinate with the Utah

355
00:13:08,959 --> 00:13:10,160
water savers program that offers

356
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,120
rebates. So that's the kind of high

357
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:14,720
level overview that I wanted to share

358
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,680
about um about the kind of codes and

359
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:19,600
standards and um Allison's going to take

360
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:20,560
it from there.

361
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,480
>> You guys have heard us speak a lot about

362
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,320
incentives and we wanted to tell you a

363
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,839
little bit about we what we've heard

364
00:13:25,839 --> 00:13:28,639
from Provo stakeholders. So as you can

365
00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:30,480
see here we have a list of five

366
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,560
different incentive types. This is a

367
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:34,720
list that was um established in

368
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,120
partnership between us and our our

369
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,760
colleagues at New Buildings Institute.

370
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,760
Um, so I'll just kind of go down the

371
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,440
list and talk you guys through what

372
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,760
we've heard from stakeholders in Provo.

373
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,399
So the the first thing we have listed is

374
00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:50,800
rebates and green financing. Um, there

375
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,880
has been some interest in exploring

376
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,560
possibly some new incentives through

377
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:56,800
Provo Power. Um, and we have an upcoming

378
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,720
conversation scheduled with Patricio,

379
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,320
the new director of Provo Power coming

380
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,360
up next month. Um, we also, as Kevin

381
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,000
mentioned, would like to um, keep keep

382
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,639
water wise practices in mind here. Um,

383
00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:10,079
so one thing that we're taking into

384
00:14:10,079 --> 00:14:12,320
consideration is leveraging rebates for

385
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,320
lawn conversion and water efficient

386
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,959
irrigation programs through local scapes

387
00:14:16,959 --> 00:14:19,839
and um, the central Utah Valley Water

388
00:14:19,839 --> 00:14:22,399
Conservancy District. The next thing we

389
00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:24,079
have on our list here is technical

390
00:14:24,079 --> 00:14:26,240
assistance. Our project does have some

391
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,079
funding in our next budget period to

392
00:14:28,079 --> 00:14:30,399
support things like trainings for local

393
00:14:30,399 --> 00:14:32,320
government staff and contractors as well

394
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,480
as a consultant for third party plan

395
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,480
review. Um and we have heard from

396
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,279
building services that um training and

397
00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:41,600
materials such as checklists and

398
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,040
reference documents that they can

399
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,199
continue to reference um would be

400
00:14:45,199 --> 00:14:47,600
valuable. Another thing that our team

401
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,399
identified are streamlined permits. Um

402
00:14:50,399 --> 00:14:52,480
building services has indicated interest

403
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,360
in this approach due to some upcoming

404
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,839
updates to their workflow process that

405
00:14:57,839 --> 00:15:00,480
might simplify a permit review. And

406
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:01,680
we've also talked to a number of

407
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:03,680
industry stakeholders that have

408
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,320
expressed interest in this option. The

409
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,000
next thing on our list is zoning

410
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,079
variances. And it sounds like this is

411
00:15:10,079 --> 00:15:12,320
something that's relatively uncommon in

412
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,040
Provo. Um but we did hear interest in

413
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,720
offering some things like density

414
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,680
bonuses to zero emission multifamily

415
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,440
housing as kind of a big ticket

416
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,000
incentive for um projects that meet the

417
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,639
highest tier. And then the last thing on

418
00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:29,360
our list is promotion and awards. Um, it

419
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:30,880
sounds like there's some interest in

420
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,519
promoting builders who would participate

421
00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:35,440
in this incentive program through things

422
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,560
like newsletters and social media. Um,

423
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,320
that might not be the main factor in

424
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,240
convincing builders to participate in

425
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,320
the program, but we have heard that it

426
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,639
would be a nice added bonus. Um, and

427
00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:48,480
could be done with probably little to no

428
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,040
budget. So, we are still in the process

429
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:52,720
of collecting feedback about these

430
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,880
incentives. None of this is finalized.

431
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,800
Um, but we're also talking with city

432
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,720
departments about how top priority

433
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,959
incentives should be finalized. Um,

434
00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:02,720
Hannah Sals has been kind enough to have

435
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,399
many conversations with me and our

436
00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:05,920
project team, and I think she might be

437
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,000
online.

438
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,670
Um,

439
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,790
oh, where did our last slide go?

440
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,160
Sorry. Apparently, I don't know how to

441
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,910
use technology.

442
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,759
Or perhaps our Oh, there's our last

443
00:16:23,759 --> 00:16:27,279
slide. It was hiding. Sorry. Um, so in

444
00:16:27,279 --> 00:16:28,880
conclusion, we'd like to express our

445
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,040
thanks to council and all of the Provo

446
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,800
City staff who have participated in our

447
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,040
project so far, including building

448
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,880
services, planning, economic

449
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,839
development, the RDA, um, the mayor's

450
00:16:39,839 --> 00:16:41,600
office, and the mayor's sustainability

451
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,759
committee, as well as the citizen

452
00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:45,920
sustainability committee. Lots of folks,

453
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,360
lots of committees. Um so what we are

454
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,160
asking for today is um written support

455
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,800
for the continuation of our project. We

456
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,240
want to be very clear that we are not

457
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,199
asking um council to vote on a voluntary

458
00:16:59,199 --> 00:17:01,600
incentive program. But what we are

459
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,000
looking for is uh a demonstration of

460
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,640
continued interest and support from all

461
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,559
of our participating jurisdictions to

462
00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:10,959
allow us to continue our partnership.

463
00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:13,600
Um, this request is being made of all

464
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,039
local governments that we're working

465
00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:20,079
with. And at this point, I think we're happy to take questions um and

466
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:23,120
discuss any next steps.

467
00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:24,880
And just to add that on the last point

468
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,640
about the request, that is something

469
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,360
that we built into our our whole project

470
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:31,360
workflow is that in the middle of the

471
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:32,720
period before we advance to the next

472
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,240
phase that we would check in with all

473
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,760
the local governments, all of our

474
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,640
partners and um and request that that

475
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,039
documentation to show let's move forward

476
00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:42,640
so that in the future there could be

477
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,160
actual formal consideration of a program

478
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,280
like this.

479
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,510
>> Are there any questions?

480
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,720
Um so this letter is for the department

481
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,799
of energy. It would be it would be

482
00:17:56,799 --> 00:17:58,240
shared with the US department of energy

483
00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:59,679
the project team at the US department of

484
00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:00,400
energy.

485
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,640
>> And [clears throat] which of the other

486
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,000
sort of design what do you call them

487
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,960
like pilot cities or design partners? Is

488
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,480
that

489
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,600
who else is support this or

490
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,760
>> they're all planning to submit

491
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,840
statements saying we want to continue

492
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,760
>> in your uh in your cost projections and

493
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,520
payback period projections. Was that

494
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,760
using provo specific rates or more just

495
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,000
regional assumptions?

496
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,520
>> That model was actually using um Rocky

497
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,120
Mountain power rates because it was it

498
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:34,960
was constructed in rockcom power service

499
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,559
area. So yeah, but we'd be happy to put

500
00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:41,200
that together and update that if you're

501
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:42,559
interested.

502
00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:44,240
>> No, I just uh the that context is

503
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,440
helpful. So it's probably um makes

504
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,640
sense. And then so for these for these

505
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,520
uh incentives you're exploring, I'm

506
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,600
curious, this might be a dumb question,

507
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,960
but is there is it

508
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,039
is there so I know for example there's

509
00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:02,960
like lead certified housing and there's

510
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,400
these other types of certification. Is

511
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,720
there value in this program without

512
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,640
incentives or are this incentives the

513
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,760
crux of the program?

514
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,520
>> I think based on the feedback that we're

515
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,240
hearing is that it's helpful to have

516
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,039
incentives of a variety of types to

517
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:20,559
really encourage builders who haven't

518
00:19:20,559 --> 00:19:22,400
done this before to try building

519
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,640
slightly new. Some builders have done

520
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,440
lead or energy star or or passive house

521
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,280
homes, but those who haven't, we want to

522
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,679
make sure that they, you know, we remove

523
00:19:31,679 --> 00:19:33,919
barriers for them. So incentives are

524
00:19:33,919 --> 00:19:35,440
from our perspective an important part

525
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,280
of the the package. Now there's a lot of

526
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:38,400
different types of incentives. They

527
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,320
don't have to be financial just like the

528
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,559
technical support for example has been

529
00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:44,480
brought up a number of times as being a

530
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,679
really valuable incentive for

531
00:19:45,679 --> 00:19:48,080
contractors who haven't um you know

532
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,240
taken this step into designing and

533
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,400
constructing buildings like this.

534
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,480
>> That that's that uh my next question

535
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,160
dubtales off that nice. Next is

536
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,200
what would you say is the value of um

537
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,679
local governments coordinating to do

538
00:20:03,679 --> 00:20:05,200
something like this versus just kind of

539
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,760
waiting for the market to figure it out?

540
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,120
>> Well um this whole idea came about

541
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:13,520
because there are some um local

542
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,720
governments who have uh community goals

543
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,200
to support energy efficiency for example

544
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,160
but the state um and this is fairly

545
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,360
common. It's a little bit different

546
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:26,000
among the different jurisdictions, but here in Utah, as you are probably

547
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,880
aware, the state of Utah sets the

548
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,039
required building codes, right? Local

549
00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:34,640
governments can't require um builders to

550
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:35,919
meet a standard that's different than

551
00:20:35,919 --> 00:20:37,840
what the state sets. So the idea behind

552
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,360
this is that if there are community

553
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,520
goals that would be served by more

554
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,240
efficient homes and buildings um you

555
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,559
know reduce emissions. This is a tool

556
00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:48,799
for local governments to help meet local

557
00:20:48,799 --> 00:20:51,840
community goals that complements just

558
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,919
the normal statewide building uh

559
00:20:53,919 --> 00:20:55,679
building building code requirements. But

560
00:20:55,679 --> 00:20:57,360
this would just be incentive based

561
00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:59,440
voluntary to really encourage the market

562
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,600
to to try something new. Um

563
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,200
just to finish on that a little bit. Do

564
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:06,720
you want to add something? Yeah, I would

565
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,360
also add that um as we are all aware,

566
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:11,120
Utah is going through a significant

567
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:13,120
housing boom. Um lots of new

568
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:15,280
construction is going up and we know

569
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,000
that it is a goal for Provo to increase

570
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,840
housing affordability as well as improve

571
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,840
air quality and a program like this

572
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,600
would accelerate the adoption of low and

573
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,440
zero emission building practices and

574
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,280
help reach both of those goals sooner

575
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,039
than just allowing the market to take

576
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:30,320
its course.

577
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,679
>> Makes sense. Um

578
00:21:33,679 --> 00:21:35,520
one more one more question. So when you

579
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,400
think about air quality, um obviously

580
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,799
there's different metrics you look at. I

581
00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:42,799
think particulate matter is probably the

582
00:21:42,799 --> 00:21:44,960
main one that people are concerned with.

583
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,320
If you were to say of a um and I know

584
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:49,760
Utah's odd because we have different

585
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,520
sort of

586
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,400
geographic issues with our inversion,

587
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,559
but what would you say? What percent of

588
00:21:56,559 --> 00:21:59,360
particulate matter in on a typical day

589
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,080
or in inversion or outside inversion are

590
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,919
contributed by homes and building

591
00:22:03,919 --> 00:22:07,520
structures versus automobiles? Well,

592
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,039
automobiles h are much a much larger

593
00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:15,600
source of local criteria pollutes. Um, I

594
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,000
think this is not to say that those

595
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,720
shouldn't be done as well. Um, this is

596
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,640
just a program focused on what will

597
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:23,760
buildings stay in place. So, we're

598
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,240
probably looking at 10 to 15%

599
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,559
>> from homes and buildings and it's really

600
00:22:28,559 --> 00:22:31,120
knock emissions from from gas combustion

601
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:34,159
is the biggest way building energy use

602
00:22:34,159 --> 00:22:35,600
contributes to those red air quality

603
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,880
days uh because that leads to PM2.5.

604
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,360
Okay. Um so it's you know we we we

605
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:42,640
support and are involved in other

606
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,280
initiatives that support transportation

607
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,600
emission reductions as well but this is

608
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:48,799
just focused on building

609
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:50,720
>> and also through providing greater

610
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,120
incentives for zero emissions buildings

611
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:54,640
which would have no on-site gas

612
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,240
combustion. This program would not

613
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,559
request those NOx emissions.

614
00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:02,950
>> Thank you.

615
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,280
» All right, Council Whipple. I think

616
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,280
what's most interesting to me about this

617
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,679
idea is sometimes we're hesitant to do

618
00:23:09,679 --> 00:23:11,280
incentives for developers because we're

619
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,880
worried that that won't necessarily be

620
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,400
passed on to the people who are buying

621
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,799
the house. But with the return on

622
00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:18,480
investment, like the the chart that

623
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,039
showed, you would have additional cost

624
00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:23,280
with your mortgage every year from

625
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:24,960
paying for those additional upgrades,

626
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,679
but in a year and a half, the person

627
00:23:27,679 --> 00:23:29,200
who's bought the home is in the net

628
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,320
positive. And so by incentivizing

629
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,720
something like this, we're sure that it

630
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,799
actually is going to benefit the people

631
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:38,799
who are living in the homes, which is

632
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:40,559
something that we've been worried about

633
00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:43,919
with a lot of our things. Um, I also

634
00:23:43,919 --> 00:23:45,919
really like that we have this group

635
00:23:45,919 --> 00:23:47,840
that's been doing this project with the

636
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,960
grant. Um because having just gone

637
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,760
through the whole RFP thing for our own

638
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,080
studies, it's really nice to be able to

639
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,760
have this expertise that we didn't have

640
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,559
to to find the grant money ourselves or do the funding. I really appreciate

641
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:06,080
this work.

642
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,039
>> Thank you.

643
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:12,880
>> Um counselor appreciation. So, uh, what

644
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,039
are the [clears throat] what are the

645
00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:18,799
costs associated with moving forward?

646
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:20,880
Um,

647
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,919
because I it's hard to say yes, go. I

648
00:24:23,919 --> 00:24:24,880
love the idea. It's kind of like

649
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,880
patriotism like yes. Uh, but like what

650
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,679
does that mean? What does what what kind

651
00:24:31,679 --> 00:24:34,799
of cost is involved for the city to take

652
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:36,080
next steps? Because you're talking to

653
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,600
meeting all these departments. I see

654
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,080
meetings. I see cash registers. I so I

655
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,000
think in terms of like just fiscal

656
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,679
responsibility

657
00:24:43,679 --> 00:24:45,440
>> um help can you unpack that a little

658
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:45,760
bit?

659
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,120
>> That's a good question. I don't think we

660
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:48,640
fully know the answer to that yet

661
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,120
because we haven't gotten direct

662
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:54,640
feedback on say the top three incentives

663
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,679
that incentive strategies that that all

664
00:24:57,679 --> 00:24:59,520
the different stakeholders think are the

665
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,600
right fit for Provo. Um so there may be

666
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,640
some costs associated with um well there

667
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,640
definitely will be moving into the next

668
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,200
phase just staff time

669
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,840
>> to help us you know develop something in

670
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,279
cooperation with all the stakeholders

671
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:18,960
providing feedback. Um I will say we uh

672
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,559
in the second phase of this project we

673
00:25:20,559 --> 00:25:22,799
also have seed funding from the

674
00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:24,159
department of energy cooperative

675
00:25:24,159 --> 00:25:27,039
agreement that we can make available to

676
00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:30,080
pilot um a streamline peritting process

677
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,000
if that would be would be needed or the

678
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,679
technical assistance um and what that

679
00:25:35,679 --> 00:25:37,520
looks like longterm in terms of

680
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,039
potential costs for the city. We don't

681
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:41,200
know yet. But we wouldn't,

682
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,200
>> you know, come asking, we wouldn't come

683
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,279
back to you to have that conversation

684
00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:46,799
until that was all very well fleshed

685
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:49,600
out. And providing um a statement of

686
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,600
support at this point or or you know, a

687
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:52,960
statement that shows continued

688
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,720
participation um interest doesn't bind

689
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,039
you to anything um that we wouldn't come

690
00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:00,240
and talk to you about first and get

691
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,840
feedback on and really make sure looked

692
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,279
for for the city.

693
00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:04,400
>> Yeah.

694
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:05,520
>> Maybe that's helpful. I know it's kind

695
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,919
of funny. So um so after you did

696
00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:10,400
whatever work um you would then come

697
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,080
back and make a recommendation the

698
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,320
council in terms of

699
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,480
um terms of next steps.

700
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,200
>> Mhm. Okay.

701
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,799
>> Yeah. And I think that would probably

702
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:20,400
look like maybe there's something

703
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:21,919
different that the building service is

704
00:26:21,919 --> 00:26:23,760
doing or maybe there's a new inclusion

705
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,640
in uh a zoning variance that planning is

706
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,159
considering or there may be something in

707
00:26:28,159 --> 00:26:30,559
coordination with RDA as well. Yeah.

708
00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:33,360
>> Um and so I I would imagine that it it

709
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:36,880
may be uh in in tand with those uh

710
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,559
departments uh and and something that's

711
00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:42,559
you know very well detailed.

712
00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:43,360
>> Yeah.

713
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:44,880
>> Thank you.

714
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,080
>> I have a couple questions. Um

715
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,120
I look at this chart and I I look at

716
00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:52,480
something that doesn't really need to be

717
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,159
incentivized. It should be incentivized

718
00:26:54,159 --> 00:26:55,760
on its own as far as the savings if

719
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,919
that's a priority for the homeowner. So,

720
00:26:57,919 --> 00:26:59,520
I think a year and a half is a fine

721
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:00,799
repayment and

722
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:01,919
>> I don't see that that needs been

723
00:27:01,919 --> 00:27:05,200
incentivized terribly. Um, now we just

724
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,080
we built a um a building for the Pro

725
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,559
Housing Authority and we did a a lead

726
00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:12,559
house, a lead apartment building and got

727
00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:14,799
all those incentives. There's federal

728
00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:19,520
incentives. So, why would we piggyback

729
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,679
city incentives when there's already

730
00:27:21,679 --> 00:27:23,039
federal incentives that can deal with

731
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:24,960
that and then it's not coming out of our

732
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,120
budget or our staff's time and that kind

733
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:28,960
of thing?

734
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,760
>> Well, that's a great question. I think

735
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,880
part of my perspective there and um if

736
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,760
that's at least you as well um

737
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,279
most of the incentives that I'm familiar

738
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:41,200
with are limited to affordable housing

739
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,200
which obviously is an important part of

740
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,600
this conversation. Um but affordable

741
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,360
housing from say this the low in housing

742
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,000
tax credits and things they those are

743
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,440
there and those are really valuable. Um

744
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,360
just as an aside what we're proposing

745
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:58,080
here would would align with uh the

746
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,679
energy efficiency incentives that are

747
00:27:59,679 --> 00:28:01,039
actually part of the low-inccome housing

748
00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:04,399
tax credits. Um and while this we would

749
00:28:04,399 --> 00:28:07,760
want uh you know we want this to this

750
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,480
program to apply to affordable housing.

751
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,320
Uh it wouldn't be limited to that. And

752
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,360
when it comes to market rate h uh

753
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:18,480
housing and incentives to incorporate uh

754
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:19,520
you know more energy efficient

755
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:20,720
construction practices and things like

756
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,320
that we're talking about there are

757
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,360
really no federal uh federal or state

758
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:27,120
incentives

759
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:29,120
except probably the biggest area are

760
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:31,039
where utilities are offering incentives

761
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:33,039
to use efficient equipment and make

762
00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:34,960
buildings more energy efficient. So

763
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,880
there is a a gap and and a need um in

764
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,840
like kind of market level construction.

765
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:42,240
>> Okay.

766
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,720
>> The other thing I'll add is you

767
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,799
referenced that this is an incentive in

768
00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:49,600
and of itself. It is, but there's not

769
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,159
always a ton of market awareness among

770
00:28:52,159 --> 00:28:53,760
home buyers about this kind of

771
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,440
construction. And the reason why there's

772
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,360
not a lot of awareness is because a lot

773
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,880
of builders are a bit set in their ways

774
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,880
and this type of construction is not

775
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,880
something that they're always eager to

776
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,600
take on. So by offering incentives, we

777
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,760
can make it more possible for home

778
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,240
builders to construct this kind of home

779
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,000
and that increases market awareness. So

780
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,080
it's kind of a positive feedback loop.

781
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:21,279
>> Okay. Um you mentioned the R RDA. Um you

782
00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:22,480
said you've been talking to them and

783
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,320
working on some stuff. We're actually

784
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,760
the RDA board and I haven't heard about

785
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,360
this at all. So I'm just curious about

786
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:27,840
that.

787
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,120
>> Yeah, we just had a couple of

788
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:34,159
conversations with um with the director.

789
00:29:34,159 --> 00:29:37,679
Okay. Um, so it's just very early stage

790
00:29:37,679 --> 00:29:40,240
like what's happening at the RDA like in

791
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:41,919
the RDA space and what does the RDA do

792
00:29:41,919 --> 00:29:42,880
and could there be something

793
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,760
complimentary about this idea to support

794
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,360
um more efficient construction and

795
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,279
reduce emissions from RDA practices as

796
00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:50,720
well over and above what might be

797
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,559
already being done or maybe there's

798
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:54,320
already things being completed this

799
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,799
should align with. So yeah, we just had

800
00:29:56,799 --> 00:29:58,240
very early stage conversations.

801
00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:58,559
>> Okay.

802
00:29:58,559 --> 00:30:00,080
>> But would you plan to continue that

803
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,399
collaboration? Sorry, I didn't mean to.

804
00:30:02,399 --> 00:30:03,600
>> I don't know how the rest of the board

805
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:04,799
feels. I know that that's something that

806
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:06,720
I would not support. I want to keep that

807
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,520
money for bigger projects and towards

808
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,799
the city as a whole, not incentives for

809
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:15,600
certain people to build certain things

810
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,640
for this type [laughter] of thing. But

811
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,399
>> we're just if I could uh respond to

812
00:30:22,399 --> 00:30:24,880
that, we're not suggesting using any RDA

813
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,399
funds for these kinds of incentives.

814
00:30:26,399 --> 00:30:27,039
>> Okay.

815
00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:28,320
>> So, what were you suggesting? We're

816
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,559
suggesting alignment when there is an

817
00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:33,600
RDA project that offers certain tax, you

818
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,880
know, tax benefits to a development that

819
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,840
uh a more efficient building uh be built

820
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,279
to be eligible for those um taxation.

821
00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:44,880
>> Okay.

822
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,440
>> Yes. It's like

823
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,760
>> another lever point when they're asking

824
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,720
us for money.

825
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,039
>> Gotcha. Okay. Um any other questions?

826
00:30:55,039 --> 00:30:57,200
Just a question of clarification. The

827
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,799
proposed um letter indicates uh

828
00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:03,679
willingness to commit to continued

829
00:31:03,679 --> 00:31:05,919
participation in the three-year

830
00:31:05,919 --> 00:31:09,520
agreement. So are is this starting a new

831
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,440
three-year? Are we at the end of a

832
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:12,960
three-year period or are we in the

833
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:13,840
middle of the three-year?

834
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,039
>> We're in the middle of a three-year

835
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:17,039
period. This June, the end of this June

836
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:19,360
is the the end of the first 18 months.

837
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,640
Okay. And then July through December

838
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,080
2027 is is the second project.

839
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,520
>> So they're looking for our support for

840
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,600
the remaining 18 months basically of

841
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,679
>> Yeah. And within that time the the goal

842
00:31:31,679 --> 00:31:33,679
will be that we continue collaboration

843
00:31:33,679 --> 00:31:37,519
and really uh finesse a very uh you know

844
00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:40,720
very specific set of ideas that can be

845
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,039
implemented and then

846
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:45,039
>> ask you know the council to consider

847
00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:46,559
formally you know adopting it and

848
00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:47,600
launching a program.

849
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,559
>> Thank you.

850
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:52,880
Cool.

851
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:53,919
>> Councelor Whipple.

852
00:31:53,919 --> 00:31:55,440
>> So you're working with the the four

853
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,960
different cities. So and you've laid out

854
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,760
a range of possible

855
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,399
solutions. Do you anticipate that during

856
00:32:04,399 --> 00:32:06,399
the second half as you work with the

857
00:32:06,399 --> 00:32:09,600
cities that maybe you would zone in on

858
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,600
different solutions for each city out of

859
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,600
that range that's already suggested?

860
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,440
>> Absolutely. And so that would be a more

861
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,360
collaborative thing like okay they may

862
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,880
want to do this over here but this is

863
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,720
what's useful in provo.

864
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:21,200
>> Exactly.

865
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,720
>> Yeah. And a good example of that is

866
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,080
Alison mentioned the streamlining

867
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,720
permitting some of the restrictions that

868
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,480
hasn't come up as a priority but in

869
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:29,440
talking with the building services

870
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:30,640
department here and hearing about some

871
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:31,760
interesting things that they're doing it

872
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,480
that raised to the elevated to the top

873
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,399
priority. Yeah, that's a because we do

874
00:32:36,399 --> 00:32:38,159
have some particular things in Provo

875
00:32:38,159 --> 00:32:41,200
like looking at this maybe for the

876
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,720
multif family housing if we're able to

877
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,640
reduce student housing close to campus.

878
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,440
We've had so many problems with student

879
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,200
energy use and things like that because

880
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,279
of the current structure. So, this might

881
00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:52,960
be something that would be helpful in

882
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,360
that. Okay. I I think I have a better

883
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,600
sense of what we would be doing with you

884
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,679
in the next 18 months. And

885
00:33:01,679 --> 00:33:03,200
>> what's funny about this is it's not

886
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:04,720
you're not asking us for money right

887
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,960
now, but you're asking for money from

888
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:07,919
the federal government, which still

889
00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:10,159
comes from our citizens. Like I still

890
00:33:10,159 --> 00:33:11,600
feel like I'm like have to like think

891
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,919
about is this the best way to spend

892
00:33:13,919 --> 00:33:15,919
taxpayer dollars.

893
00:33:15,919 --> 00:33:17,519
>> Well, this yeah, this cooperative

894
00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:20,080
agreement has already been finalized and

895
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,919
it's already a done kind of a done deal

896
00:33:21,919 --> 00:33:23,120
with all the granties across the

897
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:30,880
country. Um, but yeah, I it was a an initiative that's been, you

898
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,640
know, funded by the US Department of

899
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:33,840
Energy and we really want to make sure

900
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,679
that some of the benefits come to to

901
00:33:35,679 --> 00:33:38,078
federal residents and to Utah.

902
00:33:38,078 --> 00:33:39,600
[clears throat]

903
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,600
>> So, is it fair to think about the ask

904
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,399
today is this is happening with or

905
00:33:44,399 --> 00:33:47,279
without us. If we sign on, we continue

906
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:50,559
to be part of the process. The benefits

907
00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:52,080
of being part of the process are that we

908
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,360
can help influence the direction

909
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,279
outcome, but the cost of being part of

910
00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:57,519
the process is staff time. Is that a

911
00:33:57,519 --> 00:33:59,519
good framing of the decision?

912
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:01,279
>> Uh, yeah, I think that's I think that's

913
00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:05,430
active.

914
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,960
» All right. So, take a vote on like going

915
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:09,839
ahead, I guess.

916
00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:10,800
>> Someone makes a motion.

917
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,599
>> Okay. Yeah.

918
00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:17,750
Is there a motion?

919
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,079
Well, I I would make a motion that we

920
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:22,079
continue forward. I' I'd like to hear

921
00:34:22,079 --> 00:34:26,000
the uh what they come up with and I

922
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,079
think there's very little investment on

923
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:31,679
our part to find out more. So, and the

924
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:33,119
outcomes could be very good for the

925
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:35,919
city. So, I would make a motion that we

926
00:34:35,919 --> 00:34:38,879
continue for and support the letter.

927
00:34:38,879 --> 00:34:41,760
Yeah.

928
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,240
>> I'll second the motion.

929
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:48,480
>> All right. Any discussion of the motion?

930
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:49,040
>> Question.

931
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,359
>> Yeah. Councelor Bton, how does staff

932
00:34:51,359 --> 00:34:53,440
feel about giving their time, Madame

933
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,679
Mayor?

934
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:59,280
>> Um, they

935
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,560
How much time do you think this would

936
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,320
take?

937
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,119
>> Oh gosh. We have not estimated that. Um,

938
00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:08,000
>> in the past it's been between I would

939
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,960
say 3 to eight hours a month. That's

940
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,480
usually what Hannah reports for her cost

941
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:12,960
share.

942
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,320
>> Yeah.

943
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,000
Um,

944
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,079
I can't speak for staff without asking

945
00:35:18,079 --> 00:35:20,960
them first, but um, I think that that is

946
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,160
a reasonable request. If the council is

947
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,320
wants us to do that, we'd be happy to

948
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,160
accommodate that.

949
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:33,109
>> Thank you.

950
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:35,599
» All right, we'll take a vote on the

951
00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:39,510
talk.

952
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,640
I'm good. We can support it. All

953
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,000
right, we'll take a vote on the implied

954
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,079
motion. Councelor Garrett,

955
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:46,640
>> yes.

956
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,160
>> Councelor McKay, yes. Councelor

957
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:48,720
Christensen,

958
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:49,040
>> yes.

959
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:49,920
>> Councelor Whitlock,

960
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:50,240
>> yes.

961
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:51,359
>> Councelor Bogden,

962
00:35:51,359 --> 00:35:51,760
>> yes.

963
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,520
>> Councelor Hoben,

964
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:54,079
>> yes.

965
00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:55,200
>> Councelor Whipple,

966
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,359
>> yes. All right, so we'll move ahead with

967
00:35:57,359 --> 00:35:59,119
that. Thank you.

968
00:35:59,119 --> 00:35:59,839
>> Thank you very much.

969
00:35:59,839 --> 00:36:02,160
>> Thank you. Next, a presentation on

970
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,240
Provo's water system and proposed water

971
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,960
rate increases. And this is presented by

972
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,160
Tanner Taguchi, our council policy

973
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:27,349
analyst. All

974
00:36:27,359 --> 00:36:30,400
right. Morning council. Thank you for

975
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,119
having me today. So my goal is to give a

976
00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:36,160
little overview of the state of Provo's

977
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,160
water distribution system. uh

978
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,079
particularly focusing on the conveyance

979
00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:42,160
infrastructure that is to say the pipes

980
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,800
and also the proposal of a 6% uh water

981
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,839
rate increase for the coming fiscal year

982
00:36:47,839 --> 00:36:51,760
uh with the goal of um the recommend

983
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,119
supporting the recommendation that I

984
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:55,359
continue to work with uh other cities

985
00:36:55,359 --> 00:36:57,119
our neighboring cities and our water

986
00:36:57,119 --> 00:36:58,480
division to get more accurate

987
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,400
information before we decide on water

988
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,480
rate.

989
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,119
So just uh the first bit will be about

990
00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:07,280
what's been happening with grow provo

991
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:08,800
water rates and other cities water rates

992
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,480
historically. Then I'll move to talking

993
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,720
about the system and then options for

994
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:15,119
financing as well. So you'll see in this

995
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:17,200
graph here provo this is the Provo's

996
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,960
water rate increases over time starting

997
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,720
in 2016. You'll notice that uh co 19 did

998
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,280
not affect the acceleration of water

999
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,040
rate increases. it remained at a

1000
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,480
constant increase throughout that period

1001
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,960
whereas that is not the case in uh many

1002
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,599
of the other cities that we've seen uh

1003
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:36,880
as we've talked to them and as I've

1004
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,440
looked at their data

1005
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,520
and that is no different this year. So

1006
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,760
you'll notice this is the Provo City

1007
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,480
Council is is like the other primary

1008
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,960
ones. These cities were selected because

1009
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,119
they have lower water rates currently

1010
00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:52,800
and they pay less for their water than

1011
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,800
we do. So, I decided to focus on what

1012
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,079
they are doing better or what is

1013
00:37:56,079 --> 00:37:57,520
different about them that makes that the

1014
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,079
case. Uh, but they also are considering

1015
00:38:00,079 --> 00:38:02,079
water rates for this uh coming fiscal

1016
00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:05,760
year as well, just so you're aware.

1017
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,680
And just to reiterate, so ours will be a

1018
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,920
6% increase. And this is what that will

1019
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,920
look like in terms of dollar costs.

1020
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,480
So, just taking quick a quick look at

1021
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,560
that and I'll draw particular attention.

1022
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,359
So, the maximum you would pay for tier

1023
00:38:21,359 --> 00:38:24,000
one water would increase by up to

1024
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,000
$21.75.

1025
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,079
>> What's the max for tier 2?

1026
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:29,760
>> So, I didn't put that on there. So, the

1027
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,160
max volume for tier 2 is 100,000

1028
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,160
gallons. So, you would take

1029
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:35,839
>> the rate, you know, that you're paying

1030
00:38:35,839 --> 00:38:37,440
and then you would stretch it out to

1031
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,520
100,000 gallons.

1032
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:44,230
So, the cost between

1033
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:45,680
» depends on your meter size because the

1034
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,960
rest of it's 50,000, right? Correct. So

1035
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,560
I did a few assumptions. Mo the standard

1036
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,320
meter connection is is an inch. There

1037
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,480
are residences that have a 3/4 in or

1038
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,520
less than an inch. But um 1 in is

1039
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,760
typically the standard for a residence

1040
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,480
in Provo. So if you take these

1041
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,480
assumptions into account then you'll see

1042
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,640
at the bottom the lower number is the

1043
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,079
annual increase that you'd be paying uh

1044
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:15,520
for your water per year.

1045
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,839
So, under the current, you would be

1046
00:39:17,839 --> 00:39:21,280
paying $41 more uh in this next fiscal

1047
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,640
year or whenever the rate change goes

1048
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,640
into effect than you would be now,

1049
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,560
assuming you would pay that much. And I

1050
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,400
just also in this second example

1051
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,440
increased that by 7,000 gallons.

1052
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,000
So, if you dipped into the tier 2 range

1053
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,800
a little bit more, for example, in this

1054
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,880
example two compared to example one,

1055
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:44,000
you'd be paying $52 more a year.

1056
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,359
So that is just to kind of frame what

1057
00:39:47,359 --> 00:39:50,160
the impact of the 6% rate increase would

1058
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,640
do to a pro resident using about that

1059
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,480
much water. But you you can calculate

1060
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,480
this out and it's pretty simple to be

1061
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:57,920
able to calculate it using those

1062
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,160
assumptions.

1063
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,520
Before I talk about the water

1064
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,599
infrastructure itself, I just wanted to clarify these two principles. Like

1065
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:07,680
the pipes that we put into the ground

1066
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,720
are in a environment that is not, you

1067
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:12,480
know, pipes do not are not naturally

1068
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,240
occurring in the ground. They will

1069
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:16,560
corrode. They will break. Earthquakes,

1070
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,160
temperature changes will affect them and

1071
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,920
they will require maintenance and

1072
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,320
eventually need to be replaced. The

1073
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,800
second kind of base assumption in the

1074
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,160
calculus that the water division is

1075
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,720
using when they uh propose this rate

1076
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:32,400
increase is the steady and consistent

1077
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,359
march of inflation on the cost of being

1078
00:40:35,359 --> 00:40:38,320
able to maintain and provide water to

1079
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,400
the residents of Provo. So those are the

1080
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,320
two kind of base level assumptions that

1081
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,160
are fueling uh their calculations. in

1082
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,240
this

1083
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:50,800
I wanted to draw particular attention to

1084
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,760
the differences between some of those um

1085
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,240
comparison cities and to Provo itself.

1086
00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:59,200
So this is a map of Spanish Fork using

1087
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,839
uh federal data I believe from the US

1088
00:41:01,839 --> 00:41:03,599
Department of Agriculture that looks at

1089
00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:07,680
the corrosivity of soil. So in Spanish,

1090
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,839
most of the residential portions of the

1091
00:41:09,839 --> 00:41:11,200
city are actually in a moderate

1092
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,000
corrosion zone. Only the parts near the

1093
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,640
river and some other other low-lying

1094
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,160
areas uh have that severe red color in

1095
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,079
it. Uh when compared to Provo and Orum,

1096
00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:26,960
our area is highly corrosive. This does

1097
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,319
have data here.

1098
00:41:28,319 --> 00:41:29,440
>> Okay, that's what that means.

1099
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,520
>> That's registered. So should we move?

1100
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,280
>> What's the green? You know, I didn't

1101
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:34,960
really pay a lot of attention to soil

1102
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:36,720
corrosivity when I decided where to

1103
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:38,880
live. I don't I doubt any of us did, but

1104
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,119
maybe in terms of the the water system,

1105
00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:42,960
they they pay attention to it a lot more

1106
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:49,839
than I did. So, you you'll see that just a comparison here that the soil is

1107
00:41:49,839 --> 00:41:52,400
eating away at the iron pipes perhaps at

1108
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,720
a faster rate, at least compared to a

1109
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:56,400
Spanish fort. Springville is also in a

1110
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,560
similar situation where they're not as

1111
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,440
corrosive as they are as a provore. So

1112
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,599
that's maybe what's affecting it and a

1113
00:42:03,599 --> 00:42:05,119
difference to consider as we look at the

1114
00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:06,560
rates.

1115
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,079
>> So what's the green tanner? Is that

1116
00:42:08,079 --> 00:42:08,640
supposed to be

1117
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,280
>> green would be not as corrosive. Yeah.

1118
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:12,880
>> Not as corrosive. Still corrosive but

1119
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:13,760
not as corrosive.

1120
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,760
>> All soil is going to have some effect as

1121
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,000
I understand from reading reports on it.

1122
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,400
But it's not nearly at the the level or

1123
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,560
the rate that the moderate or the severe

1124
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,480
would have. There are actually very few

1125
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,160
areas in the United States that have

1126
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,599
that green soil.

1127
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:29,119
in North America is going to have

1128
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:30,000
pretty moderate or

1129
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,920
>> So where was that over? That's where we

1130
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:32,960
need to move. Okay,

1131
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,280
>> you can move to eastern Kentucky or

1132
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:36,560
southern West Virginia.

1133
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,440
>> Was on that last inish.

1134
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,689
>> In or

1135
00:42:43,699 --> 00:42:45,359
[laughter]

1136
00:42:45,359 --> 00:42:46,960
this block seems nice.

1137
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:47,680
>> Exactly.

1138
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,200
>> Sorry,

1139
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,440
>> Tanner. Just to clarify, so that map is

1140
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,079
like it's not looking at pipes and

1141
00:42:54,079 --> 00:42:56,000
saying this is actual outcome data. It's

1142
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,560
looking at the soil and saying

1143
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,640
of the soil. That's correct.

1144
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,400
>> And I'll also note when I talked to the

1145
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,079
Springville water superintendent,

1146
00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:06,319
sometimes the even the moderate ones up

1147
00:43:06,319 --> 00:43:08,720
on the bench can be deceptive because

1148
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:11,040
the reading is based on a point in time.

1149
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:12,960
So in the in the soil that's kind of

1150
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,400
constantly getting washed and by by the

1151
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,960
waterhed, it can still take a toll on

1152
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,160
the pipes even if your sample is not um

1153
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:23,440
>> showing up. Tanner, was there a reason

1154
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,680
that the downtown area wasn't

1155
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:26,480
colorcoded?

1156
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,079
>> I do not know why. There's no data

1157
00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:30,079
available on that.

1158
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:31,520
>> It's under concrete.

1159
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,960
>> The US Department of Agriculture web or

1160
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,200
soil survey, I believe, is what it's

1161
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,119
called. And I've worked with our water

1162
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:40,720
division to to kind of gag. Well, it's

1163
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:42,079
probably available. You all have access

1164
00:43:42,079 --> 00:43:44,960
to it, but um they they're the ones who

1165
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,680
turned me on to this um this data

1166
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,640
source.

1167
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,280
So kind of intersecting with the

1168
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:54,880
difficulty perhaps of the soil

1169
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,359
environment that our system lives in is

1170
00:43:57,359 --> 00:43:59,680
the composition of our infrastructure

1171
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,960
historically. So Provo as well as ORM

1172
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,040
when I talked to there as well the pipes

1173
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,359
that supply water to houses the water

1174
00:44:07,359 --> 00:44:09,200
main pipes themselves are made of

1175
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,000
primarily ductal iron. ductal iron. The

1176
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,240
difference between those cast iron that

1177
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:15,920
you would see like in the kitchen, you

1178
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,079
know, but made over a pipe and a ductal

1179
00:44:18,079 --> 00:44:19,680
line is that the ductal iron has a

1180
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,040
little bit more flexibility, but they're

1181
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,640
essentially iron pipes. So, our systems

1182
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,560
are primarily made of that. And you can

1183
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,079
imagine the intersection of corrosive

1184
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:32,640
soil and iron pipes might lead to um

1185
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,720
more issues in terms of corrosive pin

1186
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:36,160
holes that create leaks that need to be

1187
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,760
repaired and will eventually need

1188
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,160
replacement at faster rate. The one

1189
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,640
difference between this group here and

1190
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,880
Springville and Spanish Fork is that

1191
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,200
their systems have been transitioning to

1192
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,200
thick PVC pipe over the past 30 years.

1193
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,280
So in areas of new development, it's

1194
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,680
primarily PVC and they've been gradually

1195
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,440
replacing their iron pipes with PVC as

1196
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,359
replacements

1197
00:45:01,359 --> 00:45:02,800
are required. Yes.

1198
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,040
>> I was wondering is PVC release

1199
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,839
microplastics? Is that thing with PVC? I

1200
00:45:07,839 --> 00:45:14,470
don't know. They they haven't

1201
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,599
by any water resources there. There's no

1202
00:45:17,599 --> 00:45:21,359
data on on that because that we have

1203
00:45:21,359 --> 00:45:24,319
because it hasn't been used as water

1204
00:45:24,319 --> 00:45:27,040
pipe for a long time. They don't have

1205
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:31,200
long data. Microplastics is very recent

1206
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,960
uh concern. Um, but from what we've

1207
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:42,160
seen, we don't have any data showing if the PVC pipe used in water systems

1208
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,560
supports microplastics and drinking

1209
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,880
water.

1210
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,240
>> Thank you.

1211
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:50,560
>> Yeah. So,

1212
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,880
>> yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Well, I just

1213
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,040
wanted to note, so we're still doing

1214
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,680
ductile ductile iron, but

1215
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,400
>> my understanding is that we've changed

1216
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,720
the way we install those pipes in order

1217
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:05,359
to protect them from the corrosive soil.

1218
00:46:05,359 --> 00:46:06,079
>> Correct.

1219
00:46:06,079 --> 00:46:07,599
>> Um,

1220
00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:10,079
which is is that with putting concrete

1221
00:46:10,079 --> 00:46:11,680
or gravel around them or something like

1222
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:12,480
that?

1223
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:13,920
>> I can take a stab at it first and if

1224
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,480
this is sufficient, Ryan can can add his

1225
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,480
expertise. So, there's a kind of like a

1226
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,079
plastic wrapping that can go around.

1227
00:46:20,079 --> 00:46:22,079
That's probably the most common way to

1228
00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:24,640
protect a duct iron pipe from corrosion.

1229
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,400
Uh the big issues with that is there's

1230
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,560
some general debate as to the

1231
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,520
effectiveness of the practice. Also, the

1232
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,040
effectiveness is pretty much whittleled

1233
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,280
down to zero if it's not installed

1234
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,200
properly. And as I've talked with our

1235
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:40,640
water division, there have been some

1236
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,440
cases where pipes previously, you know,

1237
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,440
when they were installed, the wrapping

1238
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,160
was not done properly. And so there's

1239
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,319
really no effect to it.

1240
00:46:50,319 --> 00:46:52,880
>> There's also a coding process as well,

1241
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,960
but it there's similar debate as to the

1242
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,800
effectiveness of it.

1243
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,400
>> Okay.

1244
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,040
>> Um, so there's kind of a dual there's a

1245
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,040
dual consideration with the PVC as well.

1246
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,760
So I called Mountainland uh supply

1247
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,480
company. It's about 50% cheaper as a

1248
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,560
material than the ductal overall in

1249
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,480
addition to the the benefits related to

1250
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,720
corrosion. But as you said, we have a

1251
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:16,640
limited track record on PVC. things

1252
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,720
might come out in the future that might

1253
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:21,599
show as a risk, but that's yet to be

1254
00:47:21,599 --> 00:47:25,990
seen in any way.

1255
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,760
Uh, and so this is a manifestation of

1256
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:29,599
that just in here. As I talked, I got

1257
00:47:29,599 --> 00:47:31,680
data from Spanish Fork more quickly than

1258
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,480
I did for the others, but this is their

1259
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,200
leaks, water main leaks over time

1260
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,520
compared to ours. And you'll see, you

1261
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,680
know, while fairly consistent, ours have

1262
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,920
been elevated compared to theirs. And

1263
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,839
more recently, we've seen this a spike

1264
00:47:45,839 --> 00:47:47,520
where they have remained relatively

1265
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,040
consistent. So this is all to say

1266
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,160
generally speaking that you know our

1267
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,680
system and the environment that we

1268
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,000
operate in may be different than those

1269
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,960
people those cities uh that have lower

1270
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,800
rates than us generally speaking.

1271
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,160
So when uh the consultant report that a

1272
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,000
lot of this rate increase schedule was

1273
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,400
based off of was produced, it's kind of

1274
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,440
operating under the assumption that we

1275
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,160
would like to replace pipes that are at

1276
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,319
risk of failure or approaching the risk

1277
00:48:20,319 --> 00:48:22,800
of failure in an 80year time frame. So

1278
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,319
we would if we replaced a pipe yesterday

1279
00:48:26,319 --> 00:48:28,880
and we went about replacing pipes on our

1280
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,920
schedule, you know, ideally we'd like to

1281
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:33,839
see our entire system be able to be

1282
00:48:33,839 --> 00:48:36,559
replaced within 80 years. So that pipe

1283
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:38,319
that we just installed would be 80 years

1284
00:48:38,319 --> 00:48:40,720
old by the time we come back and circle

1285
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:43,280
around to perhaps look at it again. And

1286
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,079
that's I I think is based a little bit

1287
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:48,880
on the health and lifetime of the pipes

1288
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,680
themselves. duct iron in a corrosive

1289
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,240
environment. Uh you can maybe expect

1290
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:56,960
that level of consistency that that

1291
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,319
length of consistency of performance.

1292
00:49:00,319 --> 00:49:02,079
So we're moving essentially what we're

1293
00:49:02,079 --> 00:49:04,319
doing with trying to to generate our

1294
00:49:04,319 --> 00:49:06,400
financial capacity to replace pipes and

1295
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,640
such and things like that is to move

1296
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,680
this pace up and then decrease the

1297
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,280
amount of times it would take us to

1298
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:18,470
address our system overall.

1299
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,000
Uh this is just an illustration of

1300
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,960
inflation that I got uh that's provided

1301
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,040
from receipts from our water department.

1302
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,240
So just to kind of illustrate in

1303
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:30,480
financial terms, in quantifiable terms

1304
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,280
that this is something that our

1305
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,480
department has to deal with uh as they

1306
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:37,839
consider how they're going to provide

1307
00:49:37,839 --> 00:49:39,839
pipes or water reliably through our

1308
00:49:39,839 --> 00:49:42,400
pipes and storage facilities and tanks

1309
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:47,270
and stuff like that and treat it.

1310
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,640
So moving to um comparison cities and

1311
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,119
how rate increases are seen by other

1312
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:55,119
cities. Generally speaking, there's a

1313
00:49:55,119 --> 00:49:57,839
sample of 16 other cities that we looked

1314
00:49:57,839 --> 00:49:59,680
at with in collaboration with the water

1315
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,680
division.

1316
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,400
Most cities have a somewhat honest

1317
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,200
increase in their water rates rate or

1318
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,079
water rate increases year-over-year.

1319
00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:12,480
So ours is on the higher end. So from

1320
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,440
the time that the the sample starts in

1321
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,720
2015 to 2025, you know, on average, we

1322
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:21,359
increased our rates about 9% per year

1323
00:50:21,359 --> 00:50:22,480
>> and and 10 or

1324
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:23,200
>> correct. Yeah,

1325
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:24,880
>> that's a lot to do with we're an older

1326
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,680
city, right? That our pipes are older

1327
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:28,480
than other cities.

1328
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:29,839
>> Our pipes are older than some other

1329
00:50:29,839 --> 00:50:31,280
cities, too. I don't know if you would

1330
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:32,160
say

1331
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:33,520
>> I think it has to do with that we didn't

1332
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,520
do increases for so long. We delayed,

1333
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:38,079
>> right?

1334
00:50:38,079 --> 00:50:40,559
>> Well, this is just 10 year. We have done

1335
00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:41,680
increases the last 10 years.

1336
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:43,040
>> I know, but I'm saying before that we

1337
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,520
didn't got playing catchup.

1338
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:46,079
>> Yeah.

1339
00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:48,160
So, I don't know. I mean, I'm

1340
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:49,599
working a little bit with Springville

1341
00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:52,640
and ORM to get their pipes age as well.

1342
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,040
They I mean, they also have old pipes. I

1343
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:56,640
don't know. I can't give you an exact,

1344
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,800
you know, this percent and this that,

1345
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,960
you know, is this year versus that. And

1346
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,559
the farther you go back, the less

1347
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:05,680
accurate the records will be, honestly.

1348
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,280
you know, we don't, you know, a lot with

1349
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:08,960
a lot of the individual pipe segments,

1350
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:10,319
we can't point to it and say, well, that

1351
00:51:10,319 --> 00:51:13,280
was 1958 versus 1957 or something like

1352
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,920
that. So, um, yes, we do have an old

1353
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:19,599
system. Other cities also are struggling

1354
00:51:19,599 --> 00:51:23,280
with old systems as well, though.

1355
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,440
Yes. So, rate, this is all to say rate

1356
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,680
increases are typical of other cities. I

1357
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,440
have a spreadsheet that shows kind of

1358
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,480
more detailed data. most cities, you

1359
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,559
know, within a 10-year period raised,

1360
00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:36,240
you know, every other year or every

1361
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:38,319
year. Some, you know, a quarter of them

1362
00:51:38,319 --> 00:51:40,800
raised it almost every year.

1363
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,200
Um, so I interviewed uh three water

1364
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:44,559
directors from those other cities,

1365
00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:48,559
Fringo, Orum, and Spanish Fork. Their

1366
00:51:48,559 --> 00:51:51,440
take on it has been that gradual rate

1367
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:52,720
increases are better than the

1368
00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:56,880
alternative which is waiting until this

1369
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,440
financial situation is on untenable and

1370
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,000
then having to do a massive one. Uh the

1371
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,680
consistency is appreciated over you know

1372
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,559
that is is prioritized in their mind I

1373
00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:10,960
should say. Um, I will note also that

1374
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,400
Spanish Fort actually kind of switched

1375
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,280
their mindset on that more recently

1376
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,000
where they decided to do more consistent

1377
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,880
rate increases as opposed to to waiting.

1378
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,400
In that sample, I saw consistently

1379
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,079
that if cities went a longer time

1380
00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:32,079
without expecting more of their rate

1381
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:33,599
payers,

1382
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:35,760
um, eventually it would catch up. you

1383
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,000
would see a you know 40% increase in a

1384
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,800
year you know 20% increase in a year uh

1385
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,040
it it it's just what I observed from

1386
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,839
looking at the data

1387
00:52:47,839 --> 00:52:49,599
one other consideration to make that

1388
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:51,839
makes our water division different from

1389
00:52:51,839 --> 00:52:54,960
other water divisions as we look at you

1390
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,000
know the decision to raise rates and to

1391
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,480
what extent we raise rates is that we're

1392
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,160
actually kind of expecting more in terms

1393
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,800
of the general fund fund subsidy from

1394
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,480
all enterprise funds overall. Uh this is

1395
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,839
water in particular but yeah so the blue

1396
00:53:13,839 --> 00:53:17,280
line is Provo uh we're taking I think

1397
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,800
this year around a little over 12%

1398
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:22,559
from water whereas the other cities are

1399
00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:24,480
significantly lower. So as we increase

1400
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,599
rates on the top of the bucket, if we

1401
00:53:27,599 --> 00:53:29,200
continue to make the hole at the bottom

1402
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,920
of the bucket bigger, that the the

1403
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:33,920
benefit of the increase to the water

1404
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,480
division to pay for increased costs is

1405
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:38,880
going to be mitigated a little bit by

1406
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,520
that.

1407
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,319
So lastly, talking a little bit about

1408
00:53:44,319 --> 00:53:47,280
how we go about getting the money to pay

1409
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,960
for the increases. There's basically two

1410
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,400
schools of thought as to how we pay for

1411
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,359
water infrastructure costs like the

1412
00:53:57,359 --> 00:54:00,960
using a revenue bond or doing a pay as

1413
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:02,800
you go which is essentially putting

1414
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,240
money aside every year to fund bigger

1415
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:10,790
projects as we move in the future.

1416
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,160
The options that I just said are do not

1417
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:17,200
really affect who pays though and it

1418
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,839
doesn't really affect to a large extent

1419
00:54:19,839 --> 00:54:22,480
how that money is collected because

1420
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,200
water utility revenues are going to

1421
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,040
support both.

1422
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,640
>> However, in one case it's just what

1423
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,079
we're doing with the money,

1424
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:30,800
>> right?

1425
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,640
>> Yeah. So, paying off the loan, it

1426
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:34,480
affects a rate where a rate doesn't

1427
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,720
we're not keeping this rate growing. And

1428
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:37,839
I thought it was interesting. I thought

1429
00:54:37,839 --> 00:54:40,640
about I just thought about this. It it

1430
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,040
makes a difference on the um the money

1431
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:44,880
that we do in a bond could be something

1432
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,680
that doesn't get the hole in the bottom

1433
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,440
from

1434
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,520
the

1435
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:53,280
>> payment back to the transfer to the

1436
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:53,920
>> transfers

1437
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:55,359
>> general fund.

1438
00:54:55,359 --> 00:54:58,720
>> Okay. Um yes. So

1439
00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:01,920
I'll say oh this is just a

1440
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:06,470
representation of what those are.

1441
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,599
Yeah. So, when it comes to the bonding

1442
00:55:09,599 --> 00:55:12,000
versus the

1443
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,319
um pay as you go, bonding is typically

1444
00:55:16,319 --> 00:55:18,640
seen as something that's a financial

1445
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,960
benefit when the project is a has a very

1446
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,440
large price tag. It's going to cost a

1447
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,920
lot of money and the project is meant to

1448
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:29,760
last for a very short amount of time. So

1449
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,920
think about building a new plant,

1450
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:33,839
building a new building, something that

1451
00:55:33,839 --> 00:55:35,920
you know is going to get finished in a

1452
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,800
specific amount of time and it's going

1453
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:40,800
to be a lot. So that would be something

1454
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,480
like you need to replace the engine in

1455
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,119
your car or you know something very

1456
00:55:45,119 --> 00:55:47,359
significant. And the the benefit of that

1457
00:55:47,359 --> 00:55:49,760
is like you say, you lock in a rate that

1458
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,319
you're paying because if you were to pay

1459
00:55:52,319 --> 00:55:55,440
as you go on the big project,

1460
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,520
then inflation will drive the cost up.

1461
00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:59,119
By the time you start to save the money,

1462
00:55:59,119 --> 00:56:00,640
the price has gone up and you're always

1463
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,200
chasing the price tag. So that's when

1464
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:04,880
you might want to borrow money to do

1465
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,079
something like that.

1466
00:56:06,079 --> 00:56:06,880
>> So 10.

1467
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:08,880
>> Yes, correct. Yeah. Sorry. Keep going.

1468
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,480
>> Is that even reasonable

1469
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,720
to replace all the pipes that need

1470
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:17,440
replaced? he's getting at is that's

1471
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,359
>> I mean

1472
00:56:19,359 --> 00:56:21,040
>> like you couldn't get all the pipe and

1473
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,760
tear up the entire city,

1474
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,680
>> but can you do like a major you get the

1475
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,760
major ones and say we need to do 25% is

1476
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:31,680
been urgent and it helps at least get us

1477
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,960
back on schedule like I get like doesn't

1478
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:36,319
imply that we're like off schedule and

1479
00:56:36,319 --> 00:56:37,680
there's all this back stuff that needs

1480
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,160
to be done. Oh, is that true or not? And

1481
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,880
so can you bond up front for the

1482
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:44,559
critical stuff and get us back on

1483
00:56:44,559 --> 00:56:46,880
schedule? so to speak.

1484
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:47,520
>> Hybrid.

1485
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,599
>> Yeah. That regular maintenance does keep

1486
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:52,640
it up.

1487
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,400
>> Part of the concern is a lot of our

1488
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,079
brakes we're seeing are not on our

1489
00:56:56,079 --> 00:56:58,559
oldest pipes. And so we could go through

1490
00:56:58,559 --> 00:57:01,760
and replace all of our 100 to 80 year

1491
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,040
old pipes with with a large bond, but

1492
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:06,720
we're still going to have the ongoing

1493
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:09,200
breaks and replacement needed for some

1494
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,280
of the newer pipes that are failing.

1495
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,799
>> What do you attribute the newer pipes

1496
00:57:12,799 --> 00:57:16,640
failing to? Um both both as as Tanner

1497
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,400
mentioned, a lot of the corrosion we're

1498
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,599
seeing is because of poor insulation. Um

1499
00:57:21,599 --> 00:57:23,839
we we are using a plastic wrapping on

1500
00:57:23,839 --> 00:57:26,799
our our piping, but a lot of the old

1501
00:57:26,799 --> 00:57:29,760
pipes were not wrapped correctly. Uh a

1502
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,280
lot of the joints we're seeing are not

1503
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:34,640
wrapped correctly. And even on new uh

1504
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,200
plastic lines, all of the fittings are

1505
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:41,119
still ductal iron. uh they don't have uh

1506
00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:45,359
plastic fittings for bends and joints.

1507
00:57:45,359 --> 00:57:48,000
Uh so they they are also ductal and have

1508
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,079
to be properly installed or else you

1509
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:51,920
risk corroding.

1510
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,880
>> So has the improper installation issue

1511
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:55,839
been fixed?

1512
00:57:55,839 --> 00:57:58,079
>> It has been fixed. Yes. Both by our

1513
00:57:58,079 --> 00:58:00,799
crews and contractors.

1514
00:58:00,799 --> 00:58:03,359
>> So then what is the answer to how much

1515
00:58:03,359 --> 00:58:05,200
could you do in three years? Let's say

1516
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:06,880
we we could raise as much money as we

1517
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,319
needed to. How much could you actually

1518
00:58:08,319 --> 00:58:11,119
get done?

1519
00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:13,040
>> That's that's a really good question. I

1520
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,319
don't know. I know uh with our crews um

1521
00:58:16,319 --> 00:58:18,160
we can do several culde-sacs. We're

1522
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,200
talking a couple miles pipe. With

1523
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,920
contractors coming in in one year, we

1524
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,880
can probably do 10 to 20 miles of pipe.

1525
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,040
Um, but

1526
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,640
to to take a large bond to to try and

1527
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,920
replace enough pipe uh to get all of the

1528
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,079
old pipe replaced, it would take

1529
00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:40,480
multiple years. We're we're talking over

1530
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,880
400 miles of of pipe nurses.

1531
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:47,200
>> Yeah.

1532
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,839
>> So, is is the I'm sorry. So, currently,

1533
00:58:49,839 --> 00:58:51,280
are we just fixing things as they happen

1534
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,200
then? Is that what we're doing? As we

1535
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,599
have money, we also have projects um

1536
00:58:55,599 --> 00:58:57,760
like this in this current budget. We

1537
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,040
have 930 east uh from the temple all the

1538
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,440
way up to Indian Hills Drive. That's a

1539
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,280
project that we have budgeted for and

1540
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:07,040
designed and and we'll be doing that

1541
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:10,160
project on top of regular maintenance

1542
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:11,520
and and fixes that.

1543
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,599
>> So, what made you pick that project?

1544
00:59:13,599 --> 00:59:16,400
>> Uh it's it's old cast iron pipe. uh

1545
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,040
we've had multiple breaks and and leaks

1546
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,440
on that line and that's basically how

1547
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,960
we've chosen what sections to replace.

1548
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,240
Um areas we've had lots of breaks um

1549
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,200
areas that have old pipe uh cast iron

1550
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:36,309
especially or steel.

1551
00:59:36,319 --> 00:59:39,040
» Yeah. So yeah, I'm not necessarily I'm

1552
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:40,480
just trying to illustrate the difference

1553
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:42,799
between the two. And so if there was a

1554
00:59:42,799 --> 00:59:45,440
series of pipes that was deemed as

1555
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,280
collectively a big project perhaps that

1556
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,440
is something to consider. Uh if it is

1557
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,280
for ongoing and both would be cons would

1558
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,680
be supported by revenue increases over

1559
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:56,000
time. But if the if the need is

1560
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,000
generally seen as a more dispersed

1561
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,400
ongoing project pay as you go has

1562
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,400
certain benefits as well because you're

1563
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,000
not adding the interest cost in addition

1564
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,349
to the principal.

1565
01:00:07,359 --> 01:00:09,200
So the last thing I want to touch on is

1566
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,760
just how this affects or could affect

1567
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,000
residents and just alert the council to

1568
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,559
general trends. So water pipes do have

1569
01:00:16,559 --> 01:00:18,799
the capacity or when they break to

1570
01:00:18,799 --> 01:00:21,520
negatively impact resident life. So this

1571
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,319
is claims that have been filed or sorry

1572
01:00:24,319 --> 01:00:26,880
claims that have been paid out already

1573
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,040
uh to citizens who have filed a claim

1574
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,280
against the city for damages related to

1575
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,480
water. So you'll see an increase.

1576
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,000
Obviously 2025 had kind of that you

1577
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:40,880
might consider catastrophic failure on

1578
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:42,960
center street. Castrophic being like the

1579
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:44,720
techn it's like an overwhelming

1580
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,359
instantaneous failure of of a large part

1581
01:00:47,359 --> 01:00:51,520
of the system. So um

1582
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,559
that also affects that as well but we've

1583
01:00:54,559 --> 01:00:59,440
seen that increase over time.

1584
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:03,200
Uh also when in when looking at you know

1585
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:06,000
this going in and replacing versus

1586
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,400
waiting for kind of a more serious

1587
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,200
failure to present itself. Um there's

1588
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:12,640
there are some pretty reliable sources

1589
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,599
that indicate that some level of

1590
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:17,200
proactivity

1591
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,599
predictive replacement will result in a

1592
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:22,720
net uh cost savings over time.

1593
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:23,760
Satan.

1594
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,160
>> Yes.

1595
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:27,760
>> What did cause the center street

1596
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,640
failure?

1597
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:34,480
>> Uh that was a corrosion break. Um that's

1598
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:38,559
that that pipe was 1990 installation. Um

1599
01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:42,160
so really not that old. Um, and it's

1600
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,400
still when it when it corroded through

1601
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,200
and started spraying, just everything

1602
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,760
set up right to where that came directly

1603
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,079
up through the soil and and you saw the

1604
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:54,000
geyser that was throwing rocks

1605
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:54,720
everywhere.

1606
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,119
>> So, we that's not one we could have

1607
01:01:57,119 --> 01:01:58,559
anticipated. That's probably not one

1608
01:01:58,559 --> 01:02:00,000
that we would have fixed,

1609
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,839
>> right? That and and that kind of goes

1610
01:02:01,839 --> 01:02:04,160
back to the point. We we can, you know,

1611
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:05,839
we can get a lot of money and replace a

1612
01:02:05,839 --> 01:02:08,640
lot of old pipes, but that may not solve

1613
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:09,599
the the issues

1614
01:02:09,599 --> 01:02:10,960
>> because we can't run a camera through

1615
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:12,480
the pipes like we can through the sewer

1616
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:13,760
pipes, right? Because it contaminates

1617
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,480
the water. So, it's just kind of a guess

1618
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,559
of what pipes we would be replacing, but

1619
01:02:18,559 --> 01:02:20,160
that doesn't necessarily mean that our

1620
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:21,680
problem will be solved, right?

1621
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,720
>> Correct. And and when we're out on a

1622
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,280
break or a leak, we are inspecting more

1623
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,520
of the pipeline than just where the

1624
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,400
immediate break is to try and get a a

1625
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,559
classification on the pipe so that we

1626
01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:36,400
know if it is in good shape, if it was

1627
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,520
just one spot. Um if if something was

1628
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,000
damaged uh before it was installed

1629
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,079
during installation that caused that to

1630
01:02:44,079 --> 01:02:46,960
corrode prematurely. Um there there's a

1631
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:48,880
number of things that we look at and try

1632
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:50,720
and determine if that pipe goes on the

1633
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:52,880
list as an immediate replacement or not.

1634
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,240
>> Are we replacing those like when it

1635
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:58,799
ruptures? Are we replacing a big section

1636
01:02:58,799 --> 01:03:00,319
of the pipe or we just patching it and

1637
01:03:00,319 --> 01:03:00,960
moving on?

1638
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:02,720
>> It it really depends on that assessment

1639
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,680
of how bad the shape the pipe is in. Uh

1640
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,440
if there's more corrosion along that

1641
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,599
pipeline that's exposed, then we'll

1642
01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:11,280
replace the larger section of it. And

1643
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:13,119
then we're being proactive is as our

1644
01:03:13,119 --> 01:03:14,559
streets are being tore up, we're

1645
01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:18,000
replacing sewer line, storm line, storm

1646
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:19,520
water drainage, we're replacing the

1647
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:20,720
water line, all of it. Right.

1648
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:21,200
>> Absolutely.

1649
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,520
>> We did that on Third South University,

1650
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:24,640
Fifth West,

1651
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,039
>> all of those. And and right now, our

1652
01:03:27,039 --> 01:03:29,119
engineering group is working on road

1653
01:03:29,119 --> 01:03:31,200
rehab throughout the city. We're getting

1654
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:33,839
in ahead of their road work and

1655
01:03:33,839 --> 01:03:36,400
replacing known issues as we have money

1656
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:38,400
to get in ahead of the road being

1657
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,599
repaired so that the those underground

1658
01:03:41,599 --> 01:03:44,319
uh utilities are already replaced and we

1659
01:03:44,319 --> 01:03:46,000
hope that we don't have to go in after

1660
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,519
the road's been uh replaced.

1661
01:03:48,519 --> 01:03:48,880
[clears throat]

1662
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,359
>> That's if we have money. So, this would

1663
01:03:51,359 --> 01:03:53,280
be a good thing for us to get ahead of

1664
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:54,799
some of that if we wanted for some of

1665
01:03:54,799 --> 01:03:56,000
that.

1666
01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:00,720
>> Do the road rehab. It it could be

1667
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:03,039
>> councelor Christensen.

1668
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:05,200
>> So my question is around just cap just

1669
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:06,720
cash flow analysis between the two

1670
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,359
options. I assume you or have you done

1671
01:04:09,359 --> 01:04:12,799
cash flow analysis bonding versus rates

1672
01:04:12,799 --> 01:04:14,880
taking into account net present value

1673
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,760
and this you know proactive some sort of

1674
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,240
factor for proactive changes versus

1675
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,400
reactive. I remember last year was like

1676
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,039
2 to one was twice as expensive if it's

1677
01:04:25,039 --> 01:04:25,839
reactive or

1678
01:04:25,839 --> 01:04:27,039
>> 1.5.

1679
01:04:27,039 --> 01:04:28,880
>> Yes. Yeah. I think the numbers that I

1680
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,119
got from the division were 160% from

1681
01:04:31,119 --> 01:04:32,720
Bowden Collins. That was their estimate.

1682
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:33,839
And then generally speaking,

1683
01:04:33,839 --> 01:04:35,599
>> so have you done any analysis that way

1684
01:04:35,599 --> 01:04:37,280
to see if there's a big difference

1685
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:39,280
between the two approaches?

1686
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:41,440
>> The answer is no. The reason is because

1687
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,200
I'm waiting to kind of compare between

1688
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,160
the cities but and to see if there's a

1689
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:48,160
difference there when in terms of that.

1690
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,079
But now I'm working with the division to

1691
01:04:50,079 --> 01:04:51,760
get kind of the more detailed project

1692
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:54,079
list and what the exact cost would be.

1693
01:04:54,079 --> 01:04:56,079
So if there's appetite with the council,

1694
01:04:56,079 --> 01:04:58,160
I can do analysis that looks at all of

1695
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:00,000
the cost of the projects, their

1696
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,839
priorities, and then what that would be

1697
01:05:01,839 --> 01:05:03,920
in either scenario. So the answer is no,

1698
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:05,599
I don't. But I can

1699
01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:07,440
>> that makes sense and I certainly would

1700
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,640
be interested um because that would be a

1701
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:12,799
big factor of kind of decision.

1702
01:05:12,799 --> 01:05:14,079
>> Are you done with your presentation,

1703
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:14,640
Canada?

1704
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,480
>> Yeah, this is my only approach is to

1705
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:17,839
have them come back. We have a lot to

1706
01:05:17,839 --> 01:05:18,799
talk about still.

1707
01:05:18,799 --> 01:05:19,280
>> Yep.

1708
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,599
>> Food is here. So, let's grab it. Pizza

1709
01:05:21,599 --> 01:05:23,200
delivered hot. Let's just do this. This

1710
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:25,599
might be cold now, but grab it now and

1711
01:05:25,599 --> 01:05:26,960
then but just bring it back to your

1712
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:28,240
seats and let's keep this discussion

1713
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:29,359
going. So, we have a lot of time for

1714
01:05:29,359 --> 01:05:30,720
this discussion and there's still a lot

1715
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:32,559
and I I know Jeff Whitlock is next once

1716
01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:33,839
we get seated.

1717
01:05:33,839 --> 01:05:38,150
>> Good. Thank you.

1718
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:44,870
» Recording stopped. wrote

1719
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:58,470
the same.

1720
01:05:58,480 --> 01:05:59,359
» I don't even like it. That's why I

1721
01:05:59,359 --> 01:06:03,440
brought it.

1722
01:06:03,450 --> 01:06:11,109
» [clears throat]

1723
01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:29,589
» Hey, come get food, guys.

1724
01:06:29,599 --> 01:06:50,630
They pass session

1725
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:54,309
already

1726
01:06:54,319 --> 01:06:58,470
that deals.

1727
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,280
beef.

1728
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:26,309
Secret.

1729
01:07:26,319 --> 01:07:36,950
» Yeah. Sorry.

1730
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:46,870
» Yes.

1731
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:57,750
» Okay.

1732
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:10,549
Maybe I share button

1733
01:08:10,559 --> 01:08:13,680
very often.

1734
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:23,510
Looking

1735
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:35,749
So

1736
01:08:35,759 --> 01:08:50,950
welcome

1737
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:57,990
you guys.

1738
01:08:58,000 --> 01:08:59,440
When you're ready to start, let me know

1739
01:08:59,440 --> 01:09:00,960
so I can start the recording again.

1740
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:12,149
>> Okay, thank you.

1741
01:09:12,159 --> 01:09:33,590
Sure.

1742
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:52,870
I just

1743
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,440
probably restaurant.

1744
01:09:55,440 --> 01:10:12,550
Don't know for sure.

1745
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:45,990
Plenty of pizza back there, guys.

1746
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,560
All right, we'll start again, Kevin.

1747
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:53,270
Recording in progress.

1748
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:57,520
» All right. So, Tanner, we will just take

1749
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:59,840
questions now. We're starting with

1750
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,159
councelor Whitlock.

1751
01:11:02,159 --> 01:11:04,560
>> Amazing.

1752
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:06,800
So, I think my questions are probably a

1753
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:08,159
little bit more for public works if

1754
01:11:08,159 --> 01:11:10,000
that's okay. And then you can chime in

1755
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:13,030
if

1756
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,840
thought experiment. If we just assumed

1757
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,400
that we could wave wave a magic wand and

1758
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:20,000
all the pipes in the city right now are

1759
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:22,480
brand new,

1760
01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:25,440
do our rates currently cover the

1761
01:11:25,440 --> 01:11:32,310
maintenance of our systems.

1762
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:33,360
» Yes.

1763
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:35,120
>> Okay.

1764
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:36,960
>> So, the rate increase really is to cover

1765
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:40,719
a backlog. Is it 100% for the backlog or

1766
01:11:40,719 --> 01:11:42,719
is it 30% for the backlog? Like what

1767
01:11:42,719 --> 01:11:43,840
percent is going to the backlog? Do you

1768
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:44,640
get what I'm saying?

1769
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,360
>> So, it's it's to cover replacements. And

1770
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:48,640
I think one of the things I wanted to

1771
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:50,159
mention about the the bonding discussion

1772
01:11:50,159 --> 01:11:51,679
is right now the approach that we're

1773
01:11:51,679 --> 01:11:56,000
taking is a we had a 10-year plan to get

1774
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,040
into to get to the 80 80 liter

1775
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:01,840
replacement site. So, we're assume we

1776
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:03,520
have been assuming that we're going to

1777
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:06,719
be behind for those 10 years. And so um

1778
01:12:06,719 --> 01:12:09,520
if we were to bond instead or bond in

1779
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:11,440
addition to catch up and get into the

1780
01:12:11,440 --> 01:12:15,040
80% or the 80year immediately

1781
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:16,880
I think we're talking larger rate

1782
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:19,360
increases because I don't think it's any

1783
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:22,159
or discussion at this point it's

1784
01:12:22,159 --> 01:12:24,640
we bond well if if you're wanting to get

1785
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:27,440
to the 80 years instead of I don't think

1786
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:30,239
we're at a level we can stay at the 80%

1787
01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:33,920
or the 80%. So if we [clears throat]

1788
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:35,600
So when you say get to the 80, you mean

1789
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:36,880
basically there's no pipes in our city

1790
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:38,320
that are over 80 years old. Is that what

1791
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:39,520
you mean when you say get to the 80

1792
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:39,920
years?

1793
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:41,360
>> I'm talking about getting to a level

1794
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:44,320
where we can do 5 was it 5.5 miles per

1795
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:45,440
year.

1796
01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:47,199
>> Got it. But we still have at that point

1797
01:12:47,199 --> 01:12:48,560
we're still going to have pipes that are

1798
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,199
older than 80 years. Correct.

1799
01:12:51,199 --> 01:12:52,320
>> Yes. That's what I'm saying. Right now

1800
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:54,400
we have enough to maintain the system

1801
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:57,920
but to to operate the system

1802
01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:59,840
I guess depends on your definition of

1803
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:02,000
maintain

1804
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:03,280
okay let's let me rephrase my question

1805
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,360
now okay so let's imagine we wave a

1806
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:07,440
magic wand and all all pipes in the city

1807
01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:10,640
are 80 years or less

1808
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:12,880
so are we able to then maintain we're

1809
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:16,719
not still replacing at an 80year rate

1810
01:13:16,719 --> 01:13:17,120
that right

1811
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:22,709
>> under current rates

1812
01:13:22,719 --> 01:13:23,840
Sorry, I didn't miss this the second

1813
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:25,440
part.

1814
01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:26,800
>> But what I'm what I'm saying is right

1815
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:28,880
now, okay, let me back up. What how many

1816
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:31,520
miles per year are we replacing right

1817
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,400
now?

1818
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:34,960
>> Very few.

1819
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:35,920
>> Yeah.

1820
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:40,159
>> So, we're not as basis, right?

1821
01:13:40,159 --> 01:13:41,840
>> So, so basically, we're just doing a

1822
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:43,120
pure firefighting. When something

1823
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:44,960
breaks, we fix it. We're doing almost no

1824
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:47,040
proactive. No, we we are doing a little

1825
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:50,159
like you mentioned n

1826
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:53,120
and we did u imperial this year as well

1827
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:54,960
tropical.

1828
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:57,040
>> So the rate in the proposed rate

1829
01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:00,400
increase schedule is to get us to the

1830
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:02,400
how many five miles per year.

1831
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:02,719
>> Yeah.

1832
01:14:02,719 --> 01:14:04,960
>> To the five miles per year proactive

1833
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,760
replacement rate. And that's just the

1834
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:11,360
goal is not touching any of our backlog

1835
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:13,520
or any of our backlog beyond what we

1836
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,280
would prioritize at that 5 miles per

1837
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:16,960
year rate. Do you get what I'm saying?

1838
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:19,120
Yeah. So as as we get to the 80 level,

1839
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:21,280
we're we're able to do some of the

1840
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:23,679
replacement and some of it is older than

1841
01:14:23,679 --> 01:14:26,640
80 years. Some of it's not. So the the

1842
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,280
80 year is just kind of a philosophical,

1843
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:31,360
you know, this is the this is the level

1844
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:33,600
we should be at to be healthy and

1845
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:35,760
sustain. It's not necessarily

1846
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:37,199
identifying all the pipes that are over

1847
01:14:37,199 --> 01:14:39,440
the 80 and and saying we're going to hit

1848
01:14:39,440 --> 01:14:42,159
all these between now and then or once

1849
01:14:42,159 --> 01:14:43,920
we you know 10 years from now we'll be

1850
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:46,640
able to get all those. It's just a

1851
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:48,800
philosophical approach.

1852
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:50,640
>> I understand I understand that. What I'm

1853
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:52,320
still just trying to get to the the

1854
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:54,560
bottom on is we there's a proposed

1855
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:57,440
rating increase schedule. Does that get

1856
01:14:57,440 --> 01:14:59,760
us to that rate? Is that the is that the

1857
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:01,600
goal effectively? It gets to where we're

1858
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:03,840
raising enough money to replace miles

1859
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:06,400
per year. That is the goal of the Okay,

1860
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:09,040
that's what I wanted to understand.

1861
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:11,920
But does that then like do do we then

1862
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:14,000
have enough clarity to understand our

1863
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:15,120
and this we talked about this on the

1864
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:16,960
phone a little bit like of our risk

1865
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:19,840
profile of the backlog of our pipes to

1866
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,880
understand even at that rate are we

1867
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:27,280
going to be um having a a uh high-risisk

1868
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:30,719
backlog that is not acceptable.

1869
01:15:30,719 --> 01:15:32,480
>> Yeah. So that's I as was mentioned

1870
01:15:32,480 --> 01:15:33,760
that's the difficult part about water

1871
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:34,960
pipe is

1872
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,600
>> we can't inspect it unless we

1873
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,120
>> um uncover it.

1874
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:41,760
>> Um and a lot of times we we don't want

1875
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:45,600
to uncover it because that then yeah

1876
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:49,440
increase the risk. Um a lot of like in

1877
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:51,360
tree we wouldn't have put on our list of

1878
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:53,679
needing to uncover or needing to inspect

1879
01:15:53,679 --> 01:15:55,120
because they have a low risk profile

1880
01:15:55,120 --> 01:16:00,800
based on age alone. Um and so I think

1881
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:02,400
I [clears throat] think the 10-year plan

1882
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:06,080
would allow us to

1883
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:07,840
feel more comfortable where we are, but

1884
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:10,480
it's not going to eliminate

1885
01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:13,199
um us to 80 years. It's it's getting us

1886
01:16:13,199 --> 01:16:14,800
to the point where we can we're at the

1887
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,840
80 replacement value.

1888
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:25,990
>> So um

1889
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:28,400
so yeah, it's just it's difficult to

1890
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:30,000
know the risk. Yeah,

1891
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:31,760
>> we do our best and I think, you know,

1892
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:33,840
we'll have we'll feel a lot more

1893
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,320
comfortable with the the funding

1894
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,480
um in order to

1895
01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:40,880
um address issues as they as they come

1896
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:42,800
up. You know, I think right now we're

1897
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:44,320
kind of we're doing some planning for

1898
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:45,760
replacements, but then also having to

1899
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,400
divert money toward the emergency ones

1900
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:52,560
that are coming up um and rising that we

1901
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:54,400
didn't think about or didn't plan our

1902
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:56,640
prior events. When we spoke last time,

1903
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:59,600
you mentioned how on on our Zoom call,

1904
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:01,600
uh the consultant mentioned that there

1905
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:03,520
are new technologies or new approaches

1906
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:04,800
to get a better understanding of the

1907
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:06,960
risk profile of our backlog.

1908
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:08,159
>> We did. Yeah.

1909
01:17:08,159 --> 01:17:09,520
>> Is that something that we've looked at

1910
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,400
seriously or done any kind of formal

1911
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:13,360
analysis on?

1912
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:16,159
>> Not yet, but we're we will we're

1913
01:17:16,159 --> 01:17:17,440
definitely think that will be we

1914
01:17:17,440 --> 01:17:20,239
hopefully understand the system. We, you

1915
01:17:20,239 --> 01:17:24,080
know, as as we've done to date, we

1916
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:28,239
um a lot of it's just had been reactive.

1917
01:17:28,239 --> 01:17:29,679
But if there are ways to to be more

1918
01:17:29,679 --> 01:17:31,760
proactive, we're interested in that.

1919
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:32,239
>> Sure.

1920
01:17:32,239 --> 01:17:34,800
>> Does that 1.6

1921
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,920
x cost assumption include claims or is

1922
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:41,679
it does it exclude claims?

1923
01:17:41,679 --> 01:17:43,280
>> I don't think it includes claims, but

1924
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:44,239
I'm not sure.

1925
01:17:44,239 --> 01:17:46,239
>> Yeah.

1926
01:17:46,239 --> 01:17:48,239
>> What do you mean by claims? Well, we saw

1927
01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:50,000
on the chart that liability claims have

1928
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:51,920
been going up pretty dramatically.

1929
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:53,840
>> I think it's just digging up the pipe,

1930
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:54,480
fixing it.

1931
01:17:54,480 --> 01:17:57,199
>> That's 1.6 is just

1932
01:17:57,199 --> 01:17:59,040
>> not the claims. So, so claims is costs

1933
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:02,709
on top of that. [clears throat]

1934
01:18:02,719 --> 01:18:04,640
» 2.6.

1935
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:08,719
It's 160% more.

1936
01:18:08,719 --> 01:18:09,679
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Got it.

1937
01:18:09,679 --> 01:18:14,800
>> 2.6. 160% month for that.

1938
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:15,760
>> Yeah.

1939
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:19,360
>> So, do most cities not have like a plan

1940
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:20,880
over 10 years of what they're going to

1941
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:22,960
replace and what they're doing for their

1942
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:25,920
pipe maintenance? It's just

1943
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:29,440
kind of as things happen,

1944
01:18:29,440 --> 01:18:33,120
>> you know, speed. Yeah. So, [laughter] so

1945
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:35,280
>> that seems to be our plan. So, so we

1946
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:39,679
have a plan that lays out the top 20% of

1947
01:18:39,679 --> 01:18:41,760
pipe that we ought to be replacing and

1948
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:44,960
then every 3 to 5 years we look at

1949
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:46,960
overlays we're doing, sewer projects,

1950
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:49,600
other projects and then we

1951
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:51,840
>> put that in. So we are generally out

1952
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,159
about 5 to 6 years of pipes we would

1953
01:18:54,159 --> 01:18:57,120
replace and that then we really lock it

1954
01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:00,560
in next 3 years as the other

1955
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:01,760
improvements [clears throat] as we know

1956
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:04,400
developers are coming things get really

1957
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,719
solid. If you go out too far and you

1958
01:19:06,719 --> 01:19:08,480
have a developer come in replace the

1959
01:19:08,480 --> 01:19:11,440
pipes and you you end up losing some

1960
01:19:11,440 --> 01:19:14,080
opportunity values if you lock out well

1961
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:16,960
beyond that. So there's a threeyear kind

1962
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:20,239
of hard window. Then there's a six-year

1963
01:19:20,239 --> 01:19:23,280
softer and then we have 20 years of any

1964
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:26,239
of these pipes we would put to the top

1965
01:19:26,239 --> 01:19:27,760
of the list if they were possible to get

1966
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:31,120
there. Um and and maybe just to look at

1967
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:34,400
this year's budget. So this 6% increase

1968
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:39,679
represents I think 1 um $1.1 million.

1969
01:19:39,679 --> 01:19:41,520
And so we have a capital project. Last

1970
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:45,120
year we took the full 3% 3.3%

1971
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:49,600
put that in capital replacement. this year's

1972
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:52,640
6% would go with that 3% last year plus

1973
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,120
some additional funds and so we have a

1974
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:58,320
that would only go to new pipe

1975
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:00,719
replacement. So all the operation

1976
01:20:00,719 --> 01:20:03,040
everything else that's going on any

1977
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:05,360
increase you give us over this next 10

1978
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:09,040
years would only be going for this

1979
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:12,480
capital replacement. So the system's

1980
01:20:12,480 --> 01:20:14,320
running. We're going to keep doing the

1981
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:15,520
repairs. We're going to keep doing the

1982
01:20:15,520 --> 01:20:16,719
claims. We're going to keep doing

1983
01:20:16,719 --> 01:20:19,199
everything we're doing, but any increase

1984
01:20:19,199 --> 01:20:21,600
you give us is going to go to the the

1985
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:24,400
pipes that are being replaced. I don't

1986
01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:25,280
know if that helped.

1987
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:26,800
>> That does help. Thank you,

1988
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:28,159
>> Jordan. Can I ask a follow up on that?

1989
01:20:28,159 --> 01:20:30,880
So, what what [clears throat] percentage

1990
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:32,960
of the times when we go replace a pipe

1991
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:35,840
that has not broke, is it purely on a

1992
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:37,600
risk based assessment versus what you

1993
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:40,080
just articulated, which is it's close to

1994
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:42,400
some other project that's happening? So

1995
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:44,640
last year when we did Imperial, there

1996
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:48,080
was a culde-sac that was experiencing a

1997
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:49,840
lot of breaks and it was right in an

1998
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:52,719
area where we have very high slide

1999
01:20:52,719 --> 01:20:54,000
potential. In fact, the ground's

2000
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:56,800
constantly moving. So because we're

2001
01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:59,600
injecting water into the slide area,

2002
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:01,679
that raised to the top of the list and

2003
01:21:01,679 --> 01:21:03,760
we needed to have thumbs and need to do

2004
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:07,360
this and it was a critical piece. And so

2005
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:10,800
we're watching things not just of what

2006
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:14,159
is the consequence of this type breaking

2007
01:21:14,159 --> 01:21:16,480
and how as well as how many times has it

2008
01:21:16,480 --> 01:21:19,199
broken. And so right now in our GIS

2009
01:21:19,199 --> 01:21:20,719
we're keeping track of all that

2010
01:21:20,719 --> 01:21:23,520
information and trying to keep make sure

2011
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:26,560
we stay not too far above the national

2012
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:29,990
average.

2013
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:33,120
» Can I can I just address you?

2014
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:34,719
>> Yeah. Yeah. Also, I'll just uh say in

2015
01:21:34,719 --> 01:21:36,080
addition to what board has said about

2016
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:38,000
us, other cities I've seen have a

2017
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,480
similar apparatus where it's a GIS map

2018
01:21:40,480 --> 01:21:42,080
that extends about 10 years into the

2019
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:43,920
future mapping out projects based on

2020
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:46,719
risk. And that risk isn't a function of

2021
01:21:46,719 --> 01:21:49,120
age alone. It's usually, you know, this

2022
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:51,199
section of pipe has five saddles on it,

2023
01:21:51,199 --> 01:21:52,960
which is basically saddles giant pipe

2024
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:55,520
bandit. So, you you're seeing problems

2025
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:57,600
in a place and they'll try to quantify

2026
01:21:57,600 --> 01:21:59,600
that risk and move it up in priorities

2027
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:04,310
as funds become available.

2028
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:05,600
Okay. So, an interesting thing I

2029
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:08,560
noticed, Gordon, when you said 20%, you

2030
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:11,040
know, you need to fix and that that's

2031
01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:13,679
like your

2032
01:22:13,679 --> 01:22:17,120
Yeah. So, we we we have I don't want to

2033
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:21,600
say 20% of our pipe. We know they're

2034
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,600
probably about that actually. Anyway, we

2035
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:24,800
know [laughter]

2036
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:27,199
of pipe that we are very anxious to fix

2037
01:22:27,199 --> 01:22:29,600
if if all of a sudden we had that magic

2038
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:31,679
bomb. Well, that would be the bond item,

2039
01:22:31,679 --> 01:22:33,360
right? I'm sorry.

2040
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,120
>> thing that could be that 20% that you

2041
01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:36,320
know needs to be fixed

2042
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:39,040
>> and we could go in and

2043
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:41,440
I think that's a and we haven't done any

2044
01:22:41,440 --> 01:22:42,880
analysis but I think that would be a

2045
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:46,639
really big dollar amount and

2046
01:22:46,639 --> 01:22:48,320
it'd be a challenge to get that done

2047
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:49,679
like in a two or three year period

2048
01:22:49,679 --> 01:22:51,280
because you're carrying up a ton of the

2049
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:54,080
city a lot of impact and and we're

2050
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:56,080
trying to keep up with our sewer our

2051
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:58,000
storm water and our road repair and all

2052
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:00,159
of a sudden each of those are falling

2053
01:23:00,159 --> 01:23:02,000
behind and we're not coordinating and so

2054
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:04,400
People are asking why are we jumping

2055
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:05,840
ahead [clears throat] now these guys are

2056
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:11,760
coming and doing this and so I'm not so I'm not saying

2057
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:13,600
I'm a little more supportive of getting

2058
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:15,520
to

2059
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:17,360
less supportive of bond and more

2060
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:21,840
managing this through a um a thoughtful

2061
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:24,800
process management that and I could go

2062
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:26,320
in for a lot of reasons why I feel that

2063
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:28,719
way but um I've seen cities do this I

2064
01:23:28,719 --> 01:23:31,040
know the city did this with the TUF we

2065
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:32,400
would bar [clears throat] year after

2066
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:35,440
every 3 or 4 years and it was just not

2067
01:23:35,440 --> 01:23:38,560
keeping up with the problem. And so I

2068
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:42,639
think we're in a place the last [sighs]

2069
01:23:42,639 --> 01:23:44,560
there was a time when we weren't really

2070
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:46,239
doing rate increases. We weren't doing

2071
01:23:46,239 --> 01:23:48,480
pipe repairs. We went through a really

2072
01:23:48,480 --> 01:23:51,120
big expansion of getting a lot of great

2073
01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:52,880
water projects for new development out

2074
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:55,840
there. All those things led to a point

2075
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:59,679
where we are today. And so right now any

2076
01:23:59,679 --> 01:24:03,120
money we get is focused right into just

2077
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:05,040
replacement. So as we look at anything

2078
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:07,360
that any savings, anything that goes in

2079
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:09,440
goes immediately to our pipe repair.

2080
01:24:09,440 --> 01:24:11,840
That's our philosophy at this point.

2081
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:14,480
>> Okay. Thanks Gordon. Any other

2082
01:24:14,480 --> 01:24:16,080
questions? Travis

2083
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:18,159
>> T. Um

2084
01:24:18,159 --> 01:24:20,639
what was the slide that showed that we

2085
01:24:20,639 --> 01:24:23,120
have a higher amount going to the

2086
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:24,960
general fund than other cities? What was

2087
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:27,280
that saying?

2088
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:29,120
I think that

2089
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:31,280
>> Whoops.

2090
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:32,880
>> Yeah. So, I looked through the budgets

2091
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:34,719
of the other cities that I compared to

2092
01:24:34,719 --> 01:24:38,000
here year-over-year and I just looked at

2093
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:39,679
how much they're doing in transfers out

2094
01:24:39,679 --> 01:24:41,199
from their enterprise funds to the

2095
01:24:41,199 --> 01:24:43,679
general fund specifically and I

2096
01:24:43,679 --> 01:24:45,679
confirmed with, you know, I just asked

2097
01:24:45,679 --> 01:24:47,600
our division as well and our tenant

2098
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:49,280
budget and our historical budgets as

2099
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:51,440
well. So essentially, we're going to

2100
01:24:51,440 --> 01:24:53,360
take revenues that we get from the power

2101
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:56,000
division and the water division and the

2102
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:57,679
wastewater division and we're going to

2103
01:24:57,679 --> 01:24:59,920
shift them over into the general fund to

2104
01:24:59,920 --> 01:25:01,840
make a balanced general fund

2105
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:03,840
>> to use for

2106
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:05,280
administrative functions of the cities

2107
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:07,040
that don't generate revenue on their

2108
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:07,600
own.

2109
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:09,440
>> So we're taking money that's water

2110
01:25:09,440 --> 01:25:11,199
revenue and we're using it for other

2111
01:25:11,199 --> 01:25:13,199
purposes outside of the water.

2112
01:25:13,199 --> 01:25:15,520
>> That's correct. So when we do this

2113
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:18,000
additional 5% increase, a chunk of

2114
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:19,520
that's not even going to go towards

2115
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:20,159
water.

2116
01:25:20,159 --> 01:25:22,800
>> Well, if you kept the rate as it is and

2117
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:24,719
you increase if you kept the amount

2118
01:25:24,719 --> 01:25:27,520
flowing out of the division the same and

2119
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:29,280
then you increase the rate, they would

2120
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:29,760
keep

2121
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:31,440
>> Yeah. I guess I just don't like the idea

2122
01:25:31,440 --> 01:25:32,960
that we've been raising water rates

2123
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:34,480
thinking that it's going towards helping

2124
01:25:34,480 --> 01:25:37,520
us with water, but it's not.

2125
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:39,440
>> That's that [clears throat] just really

2126
01:25:39,440 --> 01:25:40,560
bothers me.

2127
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:42,400
>> Tanner, that that's set by code,

2128
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:43,679
correct?

2129
01:25:43,679 --> 01:25:45,679
Yes, that is. Yes,

2130
01:25:45,679 --> 01:25:46,960
>> the transfer rate is set.

2131
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:49,360
>> Yeah. So, councelor Hovind. Um,

2132
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:50,719
>> yeah, help me feel better about this.

2133
01:25:50,719 --> 01:25:52,239
>> I get what I get what you're saying and

2134
01:25:52,239 --> 01:25:53,840
I don't know if this will make you feel

2135
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:55,360
better, but let [clears throat] me back

2136
01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:58,320
up and talk about the philosophical uh

2137
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:01,760
thing behind general fund transfers. So,

2138
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:02,239
really,

2139
01:26:02,239 --> 01:26:03,920
>> I mean, I like the power. No, I'm just

2140
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:04,239
kidding.

2141
01:26:04,239 --> 01:26:08,400
>> Right. Well, we usually power is what is the one that we look at when we

2142
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:09,840
talk about it because

2143
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:11,920
>> not all cities have power utilities,

2144
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:13,440
right? A lot of cities have private

2145
01:26:13,440 --> 01:26:15,199
utilities. Private utilities are

2146
01:26:15,199 --> 01:26:18,239
shareholder utilities where some of the

2147
01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:20,480
rate that every rateayer pays ends up

2148
01:26:20,480 --> 01:26:21,920
going back into the pocket of the

2149
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:25,760
investors. Right? So the idea nationwide

2150
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:27,600
behind general fund transfers is that

2151
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:31,280
the citizens are the investors. And so

2152
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:33,679
you take a portion of the proceeds of

2153
01:26:33,679 --> 01:26:35,760
the enterprise funds, whether it's

2154
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:37,120
whatever utility it is, all the

2155
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:39,040
utilities that charge rates, you take a

2156
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:40,880
portion of what's being paid by the rate

2157
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:43,679
payers, and you put it back into the

2158
01:26:43,679 --> 01:26:46,320
general fund that benefits all rate

2159
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:49,600
payers. And it's in in essence a way of

2160
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:51,600
actually

2161
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:54,159
it's more important in you know again

2162
01:26:54,159 --> 01:26:55,760
I'm not necessarily advocating for

2163
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:57,520
others to do that better than I but for

2164
01:26:57,520 --> 01:26:59,280
those who have been in these discussions

2165
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:01,520
before it's more important in Provo than

2166
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:03,600
it is in other cities because of the

2167
01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:07,360
makeup of our um rateayer base versus

2168
01:27:07,360 --> 01:27:09,760
our property tax base. So, it's actually

2169
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:13,120
a way to have rate payers who are not

2170
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:15,760
property taxpayers contribute to the

2171
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:17,920
overall benefit of the citizens through

2172
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:18,480
the general fund.

2173
01:27:18,480 --> 01:27:19,760
>> And is that why we're higher than

2174
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:21,040
probably other cities because of that

2175
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:21,520
makeup?

2176
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:22,800
>> That would be my guess and what I've

2177
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:24,800
heard before in discussions.

2178
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:26,400
>> Okay.

2179
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:28,560
>> You walked me off the ledge. [laughter]

2180
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:31,840
>> The numbers I've spoken to testify, they

2181
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:33,040
prefer the silver.

2182
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:34,320
>> Yeah, I get what you're saying for that

2183
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:36,080
same reason. Thanks for the context. I

2184
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:38,560
appreciate it.

2185
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:40,880
And so just to like but just the math of

2186
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:42,000
this make sure I'm understanding

2187
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:45,520
correctly Dr. Hovind's point is you take

2188
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:49,199
06 times.12 or whatever.122 or whatever

2189
01:27:49,199 --> 01:27:50,560
that is just above 12%.

2190
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:51,440
>> Yeah sure

2191
01:27:51,440 --> 01:27:53,120
>> and that's so it's like a little it's

2192
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:56,000
like 0.7% of that rate increase goes to

2193
01:27:56,000 --> 01:27:57,600
the general fund. Is that how you think

2194
01:27:57,600 --> 01:27:58,239
about it?

2195
01:27:58,239 --> 01:27:59,280
>> You could think about it that way.

2196
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:01,360
Correct. Yeah. And to Brian's point this

2197
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:03,440
is not without cost but it is higher

2198
01:28:03,440 --> 01:28:06,320
than our than other people. Councelor

2199
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:07,280
Whipple.

2200
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:11,760
>> Yeah. So to just to address the idea of

2201
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:13,280
maybe doing a massive replacement

2202
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:14,880
project all at once, so when we are

2203
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:16,960
digging up

2204
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:19,040
to replace water, are we also checking

2205
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:20,800
sewer and other things as we've got the

2206
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:23,600
roads dug up? Like I'm just wondering if

2207
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:26,400
by doing that we would have cost in

2208
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:28,719
other departments beyond just the

2209
01:28:28,719 --> 01:28:29,920
replacement of the water.

2210
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:31,440
>> I think that's what he said before.

2211
01:28:31,440 --> 01:28:33,600
>> Yeah. I just wanted to be be sure I

2212
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:35,280
fully understood that. So, so that

2213
01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:37,360
that's correct. Over on Freedom, when we

2214
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:42,400
replaced the water line, we replaced the uh storm brain as well. Storm brain

2215
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:44,639
and sewer are easier to determine if

2216
01:28:44,639 --> 01:28:45,679
there's a problem because they can

2217
01:28:45,679 --> 01:28:48,639
literally TDM. So, we are

2218
01:28:48,639 --> 01:28:50,239
keeping track of those much more

2219
01:28:50,239 --> 01:28:53,199
carefully than we can track all very

2220
01:28:53,199 --> 01:28:55,840
carefully. We're able to manage it

2221
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:57,656
better with sewer waters than we

2222
01:28:57,656 --> 01:28:59,600
[clears throat] are with um sewer and

2223
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:01,040
swing.

2224
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:02,880
>> Yeah. Yeah. Because it I don't know. It

2225
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:05,040
just seems to me that if we were to do

2226
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:06,320
bonding or something, it would make more

2227
01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:08,239
sense for something like the water tanks

2228
01:29:08,239 --> 01:29:10,560
or something than it would be the the

2229
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:12,719
pipe replacement. Does that sound about

2230
01:29:12,719 --> 01:29:13,280
right?

2231
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:13,600
>> Yeah.

2232
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:16,960
>> Okay. There's nodding. So,

2233
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:19,440
we we went through the whole water thing

2234
01:29:19,440 --> 01:29:22,880
last year, which was fun for everyone.

2235
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:26,159
Um but my understanding when when we

2236
01:29:26,159 --> 01:29:28,000
voted on that was that we were

2237
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:30,239
acknowledging the schedule of increases

2238
01:29:30,239 --> 01:29:32,960
over the next 8 to 10 years

2239
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:36,639
>> and that what we are doing now is to

2240
01:29:36,639 --> 01:29:38,639
confirm that the rate that we

2241
01:29:38,639 --> 01:29:40,880
anticipated is still warranted and

2242
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:43,280
appropriate that there haven't been big

2243
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:45,280
changes in conditions with our water

2244
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:47,679
system that would say that we need to up

2245
01:29:47,679 --> 01:29:50,560
it dramatically or big changes in the

2246
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:52,400
cost of things like maybe inflation

2247
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:54,400
would have gone down and the price of

2248
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:57,440
pipe dra drastically dropped and then we

2249
01:29:57,440 --> 01:30:00,880
could have done a lower rate. But had

2250
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:05,760
there been any large changes either in

2251
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:07,840
the cost or our knowledge of the system

2252
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:09,840
that would indicate that we need to

2253
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:11,840
deviate from the plan that we approved

2254
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:14,800
last year?

2255
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:18,080
Well, some of us approved it.

2256
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:20,080
Well, it was approved by a vote of the

2257
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:22,320
council. Yeah, but you you'd get none of

2258
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:26,719
us are like but my question remains like

2259
01:30:26,719 --> 01:30:29,440
is that 6% that was anticipated last

2260
01:30:29,440 --> 01:30:30,880
year still appropriate with the

2261
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:33,679
conditions that we have now

2262
01:30:33,679 --> 01:30:34,480
right

2263
01:30:34,480 --> 01:30:36,800
>> yeah none of us like I think it's a

2264
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:38,320
danger like we say we can't ever bound

2265
01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:39,679
another council like there's going to be

2266
01:30:39,679 --> 01:30:40,639
other people

2267
01:30:40,639 --> 01:30:42,400
>> exactly which is why we're asking is

2268
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:44,239
that 6% appropriate now

2269
01:30:44,239 --> 01:30:45,600
>> who are you asking

2270
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:47,600
>> well I believe it would go to them but I

2271
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:48,960
think that's that's the whole point of

2272
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:51,199
whether or not we would choose to adopt

2273
01:30:51,199 --> 01:30:53,840
that rate. Um,

2274
01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:56,159
>> so

2275
01:30:56,159 --> 01:30:59,760
my friends in public works

2276
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:03,360
>> well parks to answer. [laughter]

2277
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:06,719
>> Um, so that that was a large part of the

2278
01:31:06,719 --> 01:31:08,560
discussion. What is going to be the

2279
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:10,639
meaningful

2280
01:31:10,639 --> 01:31:12,560
you looked at the issues that were went

2281
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:15,280
into the calculation of what the rate

2282
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:17,120
should be over the next 10 years to get

2283
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:19,440
into that percentage. It was inflation.

2284
01:31:19,440 --> 01:31:20,560
and it looked at the cost of

2285
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:22,560
construction, materials, all those

2286
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:27,679
items. I don't believe we have gone back

2287
01:31:27,679 --> 01:31:30,639
and and

2288
01:31:30,639 --> 01:31:32,400
verified that those assumptions were

2289
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:34,000
right or wrong. Those are something that

2290
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:36,000
we we could possibly spend a little time

2291
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:39,440
doing that. I don't know did it um

2292
01:31:39,440 --> 01:31:42,000
close up and see what but again one year

2293
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:44,159
doesn't make

2294
01:31:44,159 --> 01:31:45,840
we we we haven't done that I don't

2295
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:47,760
believe unless somebody's looking at you

2296
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:52,159
nodding or I think the numbers we our

2297
01:31:52,159 --> 01:31:53,840
one year olds we have not like

2298
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:56,000
reallocate done that

2299
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:57,840
>> but you haven't seen dramatic changes in

2300
01:31:57,840 --> 01:31:59,760
the cost of your materials in this last

2301
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:00,480
year since

2302
01:32:00,480 --> 01:32:02,239
>> so we've seen some ups and downs

2303
01:32:02,239 --> 01:32:04,880
materials have actually

2304
01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:07,600
gone a lot better gas prices have gotten

2305
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:10,800
a lot worse and so you see things that

2306
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:13,840
are petroleum based products like I not

2307
01:32:13,840 --> 01:32:17,760
other it just so it's we have to do a

2308
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:19,040
little bit of analysis because there's

2309
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:22,080
up and down everything on that

2310
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:23,679
I think some of the construction costs

2311
01:32:23,679 --> 01:32:26,239
have also gone down too so we we saw

2312
01:32:26,239 --> 01:32:28,960
some projects come in bit better last

2313
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:30,800
year than they were the previous year by

2314
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:31,679
a lot so

2315
01:32:31,679 --> 01:32:33,440
>> yeah

2316
01:32:33,440 --> 01:32:34,080
that answer

2317
01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:37,679
>> well and that for me is the information

2318
01:32:37,679 --> 01:32:39,840
that I would need to know to know if

2319
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:41,920
this is the appropriate amount, but it

2320
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:44,000
sounds like you haven't been asked

2321
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:49,669
before now to provide that information.

2322
01:32:49,679 --> 01:32:52,320
» Um, remember

2323
01:32:52,320 --> 01:32:53,520
we haven't done that.

2324
01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:55,199
>> Okay.

2325
01:32:55,199 --> 01:32:56,080
We didn't do that.

2326
01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:57,920
>> Yeah.

2327
01:32:57,920 --> 01:33:02,159
Thank you. I that's I mean I think that

2328
01:33:02,159 --> 01:33:04,080
just narrows it down to a really simple

2329
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:08,310
question that is answerable.

2330
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:10,239
» All right. Any other questions or

2331
01:33:10,239 --> 01:33:12,400
comments or

2332
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:13,520
council Garrett?

2333
01:33:13,520 --> 01:33:17,280
>> Um Tanner, can you go back um

2334
01:33:17,280 --> 01:33:20,400
to the slide that shows the regular rate

2335
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:22,800
increases are normal? Well, this is our

2336
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:28,880
note. Yeah, that that so um

2337
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:31,360
because an earlier slide that it had the

2338
01:33:31,360 --> 01:33:34,560
10year history of Provo and it was more

2339
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:36,880
like 6%.

2340
01:33:36,880 --> 01:33:40,239
You have to go back like 13 slides.

2341
01:33:40,239 --> 01:33:40,880
>> Um

2342
01:33:40,880 --> 01:33:42,320
>> yes,

2343
01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:45,360
>> right there. Right there. So, so I'm

2344
01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:47,520
just wondering if I'm missing something.

2345
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:51,199
>> Well, the rates above after 2026 go up

2346
01:33:51,199 --> 01:33:53,120
more much more. And then you have that

2347
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:56,000
20 and 11.

2348
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:58,159
>> But what's the other side indicating

2349
01:33:58,159 --> 01:33:59,920
that our history has been an average of

2350
01:33:59,920 --> 01:34:01,280
9% per year?

2351
01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:03,040
>> If you take the beginning the amount

2352
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:04,639
that someone paid at the beginning of

2353
01:34:04,639 --> 01:34:06,400
the sample compared to what they pay

2354
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:08,639
now, it's an average yearly

2355
01:34:08,639 --> 01:34:10,960
>> okay increase of 9%. So some were

2356
01:34:10,960 --> 01:34:13,840
higher, some were lower.

2357
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:15,920
things that help

2358
01:34:15,920 --> 01:34:18,320
>> and that 20% right was the increase that

2359
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:19,760
they did because they didn't do any

2360
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:22,480
previous increases for like a decade or

2361
01:34:22,480 --> 01:34:22,960
so.

2362
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:25,520
>> Yeah, it was like a long time.

2363
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:28,719
>> Can that a majority of that uh in 2016

2364
01:34:28,719 --> 01:34:31,520
was uh related to a bond that we

2365
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:31,840
>> oh

2366
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:34,000
>> we did in 2015 for two other tanks known

2367
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:36,400
as Lake Canyon and one

2368
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:37,760
>> Oh, that shouldn't be included in the

2369
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:39,920
rate increase then. Well, if a bond

2370
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:41,679
causes the rate to increase, then it

2371
01:34:41,679 --> 01:34:42,239
should be.

2372
01:34:42,239 --> 01:34:44,800
>> But they're separate things.

2373
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:45,520
>> The rate increase.

2374
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:47,199
>> I know, but it's still a separate like

2375
01:34:47,199 --> 01:34:48,639
it can be a different line if it's

2376
01:34:48,639 --> 01:34:51,440
percentage of the rate increase. Like we

2377
01:34:51,440 --> 01:34:54,239
didn't, you know,

2378
01:34:54,239 --> 01:34:56,080
>> when the bond goes away, it goes away.

2379
01:34:56,080 --> 01:35:00,560
It doesn't stay on the rate till 2026.

2380
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:02,000
>> Well, it does if you increase the rate

2381
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:03,280
in order to cover it.

2382
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:04,000
>> How long does it

2383
01:35:04,000 --> 01:35:05,840
>> That's not how bonds are. Bonds have to

2384
01:35:05,840 --> 01:35:08,239
come down after they're paid.

2385
01:35:08,239 --> 01:35:09,760
But not the rates.

2386
01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:11,360
>> Is it funny or wrong? So it'll be either

2387
01:35:11,360 --> 01:35:15,669
>> the rate is what's

2388
01:35:15,679 --> 01:35:18,560
keep in mind that I guess this is not

2389
01:35:18,560 --> 01:35:20,960
cumulative. This is it went up 20% then

2390
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:22,239
it stayed there and then they went up

2391
01:35:22,239 --> 01:35:23,600
another 11%.

2392
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:25,760
>> And then now that stays there and so

2393
01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:27,840
>> so our bonds in the past have not been

2394
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:29,840
something that came off. They stayed in

2395
01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:32,719
the rate. We used we said we're doing a

2396
01:35:32,719 --> 01:35:35,120
bond and we put the rate up say 20%. And

2397
01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:36,639
we kept up there indefinitely even after

2398
01:35:36,639 --> 01:35:38,159
the bond was paid.

2399
01:35:38,159 --> 01:35:40,960
>> So um the 2015 bond is 20 years. So it's

2400
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:42,000
not paid off yet. So

2401
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:44,080
>> okay. So that would still so when it's

2402
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:46,080
paid off will it come off of our rate

2403
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:49,120
>> in 2035 will it go down 20%. That's what

2404
01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:51,040
I think. depending on what the approach

2405
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:52,639
you want to take with the sustainability

2406
01:35:52,639 --> 01:35:54,159
of the of the

2407
01:35:54,159 --> 01:35:55,840
>> Well, I'm just asking that of an

2408
01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:58,239
accounting question like I thought bonds

2409
01:35:58,239 --> 01:36:00,320
came off period after they were

2410
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:02,480
>> Well, that's like toll roads, right?

2411
01:36:02,480 --> 01:36:04,480
Toll roads pay for themselves and it's

2412
01:36:04,480 --> 01:36:06,080
hard to actually stop that revenue from

2413
01:36:06,080 --> 01:36:07,520
coming in. So, I that seems like that

2414
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:09,199
would be a decision of the council.

2415
01:36:09,199 --> 01:36:11,440
>> Yeah. revenue bonds or the utility

2416
01:36:11,440 --> 01:36:13,120
revenue bonds are I think are different

2417
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:14,880
than the you know general obligation

2418
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:17,120
bonds where it's tied to a specific

2419
01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:19,920
percent of the uh property tax rate that

2420
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:22,159
goes away in this case it would be a

2421
01:36:22,159 --> 01:36:24,080
council decision

2422
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:28,560
>> I have no idea fall off

2423
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:29,679
>> wow

2424
01:36:29,679 --> 01:36:31,360
>> and at that point they'll probably say

2425
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:34,080
I'm not going to raise rates this year

2426
01:36:34,080 --> 01:36:36,480
and just keep it

2427
01:36:36,480 --> 01:36:38,000
>> or they'll bond again for something else

2428
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:39,280
and just keep

2429
01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:40,480
That's usually how then

2430
01:36:40,480 --> 01:36:42,400
>> I'll just forget that it ever happened

2431
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,199
there. That's what will happen.

2432
01:36:45,199 --> 01:36:48,390
>> Yeah.

2433
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:49,760
I'll [laughter] put it in my

2434
01:36:49,760 --> 01:36:52,870
calendar

2435
01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:55,156
and he will admit that that comes up.

2436
01:36:55,156 --> 01:36:55,520
[laughter]

2437
01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:59,679
>> I mean, I might still be on council that

2438
01:36:59,679 --> 01:37:02,362
>> everybody

2439
01:37:02,362 --> 01:37:03,520
[laughter]

2440
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:05,199
tanner. Now, if you could go to the next

2441
01:37:05,199 --> 01:37:07,760
slide. Uh, I mean, part of me wishes

2442
01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:12,239
that it could be 5%, to be more in line

2443
01:37:12,239 --> 01:37:14,480
with what neighboring cities are doing.

2444
01:37:14,480 --> 01:37:16,159
And if you go back, it just so happens

2445
01:37:16,159 --> 01:37:18,639
that minutes that we approved today from

2446
01:37:18,639 --> 01:37:21,840
a year ago included the recommendation

2447
01:37:21,840 --> 01:37:25,119
from the um,

2448
01:37:25,119 --> 01:37:26,880
uh, that who that was outsourced to, and

2449
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:29,520
he recommended 5% per year. That's on

2450
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:35,360
page 17 of our notes. But maybe um some

2451
01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:37,920
feel 5%'s not enough.

2452
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:40,159
>> Yeah. When if the council's a wish that

2453
01:37:40,159 --> 01:37:42,080
I come back, we can I can work with the

2454
01:37:42,080 --> 01:37:45,520
division to to look at the the adequacy

2455
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:47,600
and those changes and just work with

2456
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:48,719
them to make sure that you're in the

2457
01:37:48,719 --> 01:37:50,480
loop on that and also the comparison,

2458
01:37:50,480 --> 01:37:52,480
the financing as well.

2459
01:37:52,480 --> 01:37:54,800
>> Right. And my understanding was that 5%

2460
01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:57,199
got changed to the 6% because we only

2461
01:37:57,199 --> 01:37:59,679
did the increase of 3.3 last year

2462
01:37:59,679 --> 01:38:01,679
instead of the full recommended amount.

2463
01:38:01,679 --> 01:38:04,639
And we had a year where we had 0%

2464
01:38:04,639 --> 01:38:05,440
increase.

2465
01:38:05,440 --> 01:38:07,760
>> But we also did tears which changed.

2466
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:08,400
>> So what?

2467
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:10,960
>> We also did tears.

2468
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:12,880
>> That's true.

2469
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:15,600
>> The recommendation for the increases was

2470
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:17,679
made in conjunction with going to the

2471
01:38:17,679 --> 01:38:19,760
tiers. And it's important to remember

2472
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:22,880
that that had, you know, the 5% 5% 5%

2473
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:26,159
but then 88 77 and then going down to

2474
01:38:26,159 --> 01:38:27,440
four.

2475
01:38:27,440 --> 01:38:29,280
>> And so

2476
01:38:29,280 --> 01:38:34,719
>> evens it out a little. Yeah, trying to not have a super sharp thing, but

2477
01:38:34,719 --> 01:38:38,000
still get that revenue up and and

2478
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:41,119
everything. Um, which is why it's good

2479
01:38:41,119 --> 01:38:43,280
that we're we're checking to see, you

2480
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:45,360
know, how the increase last year was

2481
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:48,239
helpful, if the conditions of the cost

2482
01:38:48,239 --> 01:38:49,920
and everything have changed. We know

2483
01:38:49,920 --> 01:38:51,600
that the condition of the pipe has not

2484
01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:54,800
improved over the time. Um, I also

2485
01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:56,800
thought that was interesting, Gordon,

2486
01:38:56,800 --> 01:38:58,480
that you talked about kind of the

2487
01:38:58,480 --> 01:39:00,480
shifting soils and everything because

2488
01:39:00,480 --> 01:39:02,239
it's not just a matter of the pipe

2489
01:39:02,239 --> 01:39:04,960
itself failing, but the soil around the

2490
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:06,480
pipe failing because we have all of

2491
01:39:06,480 --> 01:39:09,520
these fun faults and liquefaction and

2492
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:11,520
other things that are putting external

2493
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:15,360
pressure on our pipes, which may not

2494
01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:17,840
always be a a factor that some of the

2495
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:19,360
other cities have to contend with

2496
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:21,119
depending on how they're situated in

2497
01:39:21,119 --> 01:39:25,830
their geology. Council

2498
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:26,560
Whitlock.

2499
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:29,360
>> Uh I like the question that councelor

2500
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:30,960
Whipple asked and if I could ask a

2501
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:33,520
follow-up is have we done the analysis

2502
01:39:33,520 --> 01:39:36,639
um from last year to say we raised rates

2503
01:39:36,639 --> 01:39:39,199
3.3% and then this is what we had for

2504
01:39:39,199 --> 01:39:40,719
projected revenues from that increase

2505
01:39:40,719 --> 01:39:42,400
versus what actually transpired based on

2506
01:39:42,400 --> 01:39:43,119
water usage.

2507
01:39:43,119 --> 01:39:46,550
>> Question.

2508
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:49,679
» Yes, we do. And um we have so I track

2509
01:39:49,679 --> 01:39:51,600
that monthly and compare it with what we

2510
01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:54,400
anticipated and you know it was there's

2511
01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:55,920
a lot of factors going into it such as

2512
01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:58,639
weather and um

2513
01:39:58,639 --> 01:40:02,000
the uh again we've only had um what

2514
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:05,520
eight n months. So yeah, as as far as I

2515
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:07,440
can tell, you know, so far for what I've

2516
01:40:07,440 --> 01:40:10,000
anticipated for FY26, we're getting at

2517
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:13,760
least 3.3% depending, but you know, we

2518
01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:16,560
get way more in May and June than we get

2519
01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:18,800
January through.

2520
01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:29,334
>> So what's the numbers at right now?

2521
01:40:29,344 --> 01:40:30,560
[laughter]

2522
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:35,590
>> Ask all the hard questions. Thank you.

2523
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:38,719
Yeah. So for through 10 months we are we

2524
01:40:38,719 --> 01:40:41,199
have 4.9% more revenue than we did the

2525
01:40:41,199 --> 01:40:45,040
previous year's 10 months.

2526
01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:46,560
So we're we're ahead of schedule for

2527
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:48,960
those months. But again the May and June

2528
01:40:48,960 --> 01:40:51,760
are a lot bigger

2529
01:40:51,760 --> 01:40:56,229
impact on

2530
01:40:56,239 --> 01:41:02,149
» Thank you.

2531
01:41:02,159 --> 01:41:04,400
One thing I did hear from council member

2532
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:06,320
Wibbles is probably what we'll do next.

2533
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:08,639
We want to sit down once we have a full

2534
01:41:08,639 --> 01:41:11,199
years really look at that and maybe give

2535
01:41:11,199 --> 01:41:12,880
you a little better representation of

2536
01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:14,639
what that means. Generally, we like the

2537
01:41:14,639 --> 01:41:16,239
whole year before we'll study something

2538
01:41:16,239 --> 01:41:19,119
because it ends up being a little bit

2539
01:41:19,119 --> 01:41:21,040
truncated. And so, we'll we'll take a

2540
01:41:21,040 --> 01:41:23,520
good look at this after this last full

2541
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:24,960
year takes place and be able to come

2542
01:41:24,960 --> 01:41:27,920
back to you. We'll better answer what

2543
01:41:27,920 --> 01:41:29,679
council member Lib's questions were.

2544
01:41:29,679 --> 01:41:31,040
>> Gordon, while I have you there, just

2545
01:41:31,040 --> 01:41:35,440
what do you think about um investing in

2546
01:41:35,440 --> 01:41:39,040
better uh backlog basal

2547
01:41:39,040 --> 01:41:40,719
analysis? Like, do you think those

2548
01:41:40,719 --> 01:41:42,000
technologies are promising? Do you think

2549
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:43,360
it's better to wait because there's more

2550
01:41:43,360 --> 01:41:45,280
stuff in development? Because like the

2551
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:46,320
reason why I asked this is because I

2552
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:48,320
just think it's a very difficult

2553
01:41:48,320 --> 01:41:50,960
analytical problem because you have a

2554
01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:57,360
backlog that you don't really know. You do have 2.2% 2 sorry 200 160% higher

2555
01:41:57,360 --> 01:41:59,440
costs when you run it to break, but

2556
01:41:59,440 --> 01:42:00,880
there's this risk that if you replace

2557
01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:02,480
too early that you replace a pipe that

2558
01:42:02,480 --> 01:42:04,320
could have another had another 20 years

2559
01:42:04,320 --> 01:42:06,880
on it. And so you're trying to balance

2560
01:42:06,880 --> 01:42:08,480
these two competing analytical forces

2561
01:42:08,480 --> 01:42:10,960
with like looking through mud basically.

2562
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:13,520
And I mean literally

2563
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:16,560
>> so we asked are so we internally we've

2564
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:18,639
discussed a number of these different

2565
01:42:18,639 --> 01:42:22,960
models going out and doing some testing.

2566
01:42:22,960 --> 01:42:26,950
They each have

2567
01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:29,360
promises but they also seem to have some

2568
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:30,880
challenges to make them be very

2569
01:42:30,880 --> 01:42:32,486
effective. So right now we

2570
01:42:32,486 --> 01:42:34,159
[clears throat] hope to find one that

2571
01:42:34,159 --> 01:42:36,000
really gives us the answer we're looking

2572
01:42:36,000 --> 01:42:38,639
for. So we haven't actually executed.

2573
01:42:38,639 --> 01:42:40,560
We've just been look exploring several

2574
01:42:40,560 --> 01:42:41,920
of these and talking to different people

2575
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:42,960
to do this. So

2576
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:45,199
>> I think from my perspective I think it'd

2577
01:42:45,199 --> 01:42:47,520
be very help again I don't want you're

2578
01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:48,719
the expert and your teams are the

2579
01:42:48,719 --> 01:42:50,639
experts but just from like a political

2580
01:42:50,639 --> 01:42:52,960
and our role it would be a lot health

2581
01:42:52,960 --> 01:42:54,960
more helpful to be able to communicate

2582
01:42:54,960 --> 01:42:56,480
>> what we're actually looking at rather

2583
01:42:56,480 --> 01:42:58,000
than oh you know we have these pipes

2584
01:42:58,000 --> 01:42:59,280
that are this old and some old pipes are

2585
01:42:59,280 --> 01:43:00,480
fine because they're in less soil and

2586
01:43:00,480 --> 01:43:08,390
maybe it was made with different mater

2587
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:09,840
I think I think that would be very

2588
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:11,679
helpful for us to look at it from macro

2589
01:43:11,679 --> 01:43:12,639
I

2590
01:43:12,639 --> 01:43:14,400
One of the challenge, one of the

2591
01:43:14,400 --> 01:43:16,480
benefits, I don't know what it is. We

2592
01:43:16,480 --> 01:43:18,400
have enough really, really awful pipes

2593
01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:20,239
that we almost don't have to check them

2594
01:43:20,239 --> 01:43:21,840
cuz they break enough that we can know

2595
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:23,760
that. So, [clears throat]

2596
01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:27,910
>> but that's what we want to

2597
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:29,760
» once we get past that log, then we're

2598
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:31,040
really going to have to do some more

2599
01:43:31,040 --> 01:43:32,719
investigation. No, but your point is

2600
01:43:32,719 --> 01:43:34,159
right. We probably ought to do it now.

2601
01:43:34,159 --> 01:43:37,199
So, I'm uh so I'm taking your point

2602
01:43:37,199 --> 01:43:38,639
seriously. We are going to come up and

2603
01:43:38,639 --> 01:43:39,840
we'll come up and talk a little bit more

2604
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:45,830
about how we've done that. Thank you.

2605
01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:48,000
» Anything [clears throat] else, Councelor

2606
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:49,920
Hoben?

2607
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:52,239
>> I just I just imagine it's probably hard

2608
01:43:52,239 --> 01:43:54,880
though because like soils can shift and

2609
01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:57,040
a pipe can look fine, but then something

2610
01:43:57,040 --> 01:43:59,199
can move and it's you know probably I

2611
01:43:59,199 --> 01:44:01,920
don't know. I just imagine it's probably

2612
01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:02,960
difficult.

2613
01:44:02,960 --> 01:44:04,719
>> Even if a pipe isn't cracked today, it

2614
01:44:04,719 --> 01:44:07,840
could crack tomorrow just due to a shift

2615
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:10,800
in something. But obviously no expert on

2616
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:13,920
that. Um I liked the idea of a bond

2617
01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:16,880
because I felt like well let's stop all

2618
01:44:16,880 --> 01:44:18,320
of these just incremental little

2619
01:44:18,320 --> 01:44:20,400
increases and let's let's just take care

2620
01:44:20,400 --> 01:44:22,480
of the problem. But clearly it sounds

2621
01:44:22,480 --> 01:44:25,280
like that's just not the case that you

2622
01:44:25,280 --> 01:44:26,639
can't just you know cuz you can't tear

2623
01:44:26,639 --> 01:44:28,400
up the whole city at once and just you

2624
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:31,679
know and not to mention it just ends up

2625
01:44:31,679 --> 01:44:34,800
it ends up in the rain anyways and then

2626
01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:37,280
>> doesn't drop off unfortunately like

2627
01:44:37,280 --> 01:44:39,520
other bonds. So, it's not like you could

2628
01:44:39,520 --> 01:44:41,920
just plan on it in 20 20 years or 30

2629
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:44,880
years it would drop off. So, I'm now I

2630
01:44:44,880 --> 01:44:46,239
guess I'm just kind of back to where we

2631
01:44:46,239 --> 01:44:47,920
were before. We just have to decide on

2632
01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:49,520
every year, you know, if we want to do

2633
01:44:49,520 --> 01:44:51,600
another increase this year or not and

2634
01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:58,080
>> and how much And it sounds like that's uh kind of what we're stuck with

2635
01:44:58,080 --> 01:45:01,119
given this problem. I mean, it's Yeah.

2636
01:45:01,119 --> 01:45:02,639
Um,

2637
01:45:02,639 --> 01:45:04,480
as you guys know, my main concerns have

2638
01:45:04,480 --> 01:45:06,320
been around just putting most of the

2639
01:45:06,320 --> 01:45:08,560
burden on these tier 2 and tier three

2640
01:45:08,560 --> 01:45:11,679
users that from my perspective don't

2641
01:45:11,679 --> 01:45:14,400
necessarily deserve kind of that uh that

2642
01:45:14,400 --> 01:45:16,800
punishment. But I won't go there today.

2643
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:19,840
Um, I'll just say that I I could support

2644
01:45:19,840 --> 01:45:22,239
if we do need a rate increase this year

2645
01:45:22,239 --> 01:45:24,560
um across the board. I like I like how

2646
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:26,560
it's been proposed by the administration

2647
01:45:26,560 --> 01:45:28,719
that just be across the board. um

2648
01:45:28,719 --> 01:45:31,360
whether it's four or five 6% I think we

2649
01:45:31,360 --> 01:45:33,440
probably need to hammer that out. Sounds

2650
01:45:33,440 --> 01:45:34,960
like maybe some costs have gone down and

2651
01:45:34,960 --> 01:45:36,560
maybe some revenue is up this year so

2652
01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:37,920
that might warrant a smaller increase

2653
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:39,600
this year. Um just trying to be

2654
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:42,159
cognizant of that. So uh just a few

2655
01:45:42,159 --> 01:45:44,880
thoughts on that.

2656
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:47,520
I think the one thing sorry

2657
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:48,719
>> I think the one thing the data clearly

2658
01:45:48,719 --> 01:45:50,080
shows Tanner thank you for putting this

2659
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:51,520
together is that we are in a worse spot

2660
01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:53,360
than other cities.

2661
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:54,960
We have, if you want to go to your slide

2662
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:56,639
where you're comparing. Yeah, we have a

2663
01:45:56,639 --> 01:46:00,870
lot more breaks.

2664
01:46:00,880 --> 01:46:02,159
» Yeah. I mean, I'd like to see more. Are

2665
01:46:02,159 --> 01:46:03,679
you working on getting data from ORM and

2666
01:46:03,679 --> 01:46:04,400
Springville, too?

2667
01:46:04,400 --> 01:46:04,880
>> That's correct.

2668
01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:06,239
>> Yeah. So, I guess I say we're worse than

2669
01:46:06,239 --> 01:46:11,590
Spanish Fork like substantially. If you

2670
01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:13,199
» I mean, yeah. I mean, there's one data

2671
01:46:13,199 --> 01:46:16,000
point out there.

2672
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:17,440
>> I think ORM's a better comp to your

2673
01:46:17,440 --> 01:46:18,400
point though, right? Because of the

2674
01:46:18,400 --> 01:46:18,800
soil.

2675
01:46:18,800 --> 01:46:20,400
>> I imagine there'll be more similar to

2676
01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:23,119
based on my conversation there. How is

2677
01:46:23,119 --> 01:46:25,440
there like a na is there a it might be

2678
01:46:25,440 --> 01:46:27,600
even help it'd be helpful to even step

2679
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:31,040
back more and just understand nationally

2680
01:46:31,040 --> 01:46:35,760
statewide what is what is uh normal I

2681
01:46:35,760 --> 01:46:37,679
mean 50 breaks in a year seems like a

2682
01:46:37,679 --> 01:46:38,480
lot

2683
01:46:38,480 --> 01:46:40,800
>> but without that benchmark

2684
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:42,400
it's hard to conclude that definitively

2685
01:46:42,400 --> 01:46:43,600
>> because you're looking at something you

2686
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:44,880
got to get have something comparable

2687
01:46:44,880 --> 01:46:46,639
with the soil right

2688
01:46:46,639 --> 01:46:49,040
>> and so you can't necessarily comparison

2689
01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:52,390
to

2690
01:46:52,400 --> 01:46:54,000
I think Worm would probably be your

2691
01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:55,920
better bet.

2692
01:46:55,920 --> 01:46:57,760
>> Yeah, I guess do some more research

2693
01:46:57,760 --> 01:47:00,159
because the data is wide. So if there

2694
01:47:00,159 --> 01:47:01,920
is, you know,

2695
01:47:01,920 --> 01:47:03,920
>> yeah, maybe maybe to councelor Bogdan's

2696
01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:06,480
point, maybe if there is a a city that

2697
01:47:06,480 --> 01:47:09,679
has comparable soil because I think it

2698
01:47:09,679 --> 01:47:11,760
ultimately is it's an economic decision

2699
01:47:11,760 --> 01:47:14,560
but also a political decision. what what

2700
01:47:14,560 --> 01:47:16,000
you're willing like like we said it's

2701
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:18,000
philosophical at some level what you're

2702
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:20,960
willing to tolerate as a city and um I

2703
01:47:20,960 --> 01:47:22,639
think just benchmark will be helpful to

2704
01:47:22,639 --> 01:47:25,280
frame this

2705
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:27,119
>> councelor witlock I mean councelor

2706
01:47:27,119 --> 01:47:31,109
whipple

2707
01:47:31,119 --> 01:47:35,040
» yeah I I like the idea that the 3.3 rate

2708
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:38,239
increase may have led to 4.9% revenue

2709
01:47:38,239 --> 01:47:40,239
increase that that would be really

2710
01:47:40,239 --> 01:47:42,000
lovely and I would hope that we would

2711
01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:44,000
pop be trying to get ahead on some of

2712
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:47,360
this. Um I think even if we could

2713
01:47:47,360 --> 01:47:49,679
replace a whole big chunk of it all at

2714
01:47:49,679 --> 01:47:51,360
once, then we would be creating a

2715
01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:53,520
problem for ourselves

2716
01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:55,600
in the future. You know that the school

2717
01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:57,119
found this when they replaced a lot of

2718
01:47:57,119 --> 01:47:58,960
schools in what the 50s and 60s and then

2719
01:47:58,960 --> 01:48:01,040
they all failed at the same time.

2720
01:48:01,040 --> 01:48:03,440
>> Um like we I think it's better to be

2721
01:48:03,440 --> 01:48:05,760
doing the gradual replacement so that we

2722
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:08,880
don't get into another choke point where

2723
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:11,040
a ton of the infrastructure is the same

2724
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:13,440
age and failing all at once.

2725
01:48:13,440 --> 01:48:15,679
Um,

2726
01:48:15,679 --> 01:48:17,760
yeah, it'll it'll be interesting to see

2727
01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:19,760
how our water usage is this year, both

2728
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:22,560
with the super bad water year that we've

2729
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:26,480
had and the public concern about

2730
01:48:26,480 --> 01:48:28,960
droughts and, you know, voluntary

2731
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:31,520
reduction in water use.

2732
01:48:31,520 --> 01:48:35,679
Like the soil's not saturated, so

2733
01:48:35,679 --> 01:48:38,960
everything's just going to poof away.

2734
01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:41,760
So, I really don't know how our

2735
01:48:41,760 --> 01:48:43,760
residents, our water consumers are going

2736
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:51,270
to to act this year.

2737
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:54,639
» All right. What is our next steps?

2738
01:48:54,639 --> 01:48:56,560
>> Uh, my only recommendation was whether I

2739
01:48:56,560 --> 01:48:57,679
just wanted to see whether you wanted me

2740
01:48:57,679 --> 01:48:59,199
to come back and give you more

2741
01:48:59,199 --> 01:49:01,119
information. So, I'm getting a yes.

2742
01:49:01,119 --> 01:49:03,040
>> I think we're done with the bond. I

2743
01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:07,350
think we want to look into

2744
01:49:07,360 --> 01:49:11,280
the costs and the different figuring out

2745
01:49:11,280 --> 01:49:12,880
what the increase will be.

2746
01:49:12,880 --> 01:49:14,480
>> Sure. So like a justification for that

2747
01:49:14,480 --> 01:49:17,840
the 6% number in detail and then yeah

2748
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:19,520
analysis of maybe the plan moving

2749
01:49:19,520 --> 01:49:20,719
forward in in detail

2750
01:49:20,719 --> 01:49:22,320
>> and then more data as you get it from

2751
01:49:22,320 --> 01:49:23,199
other cities.

2752
01:49:23,199 --> 01:49:25,119
>> Perfect. I think I understand the notes.

2753
01:49:25,119 --> 01:49:25,600
Okay.

2754
01:49:25,600 --> 01:49:26,000
>> Thank you.

2755
01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:28,480
>> Thanks Tanner. I just

2756
01:49:28,480 --> 01:49:29,520
>> counselor

2757
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:30,960
>> I do just want to know that our public

2758
01:49:30,960 --> 01:49:33,520
works team I just think that they

2759
01:49:33,520 --> 01:49:36,080
probably I don't know inde you know

2760
01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:37,760
definitively but it sounds like you guys

2761
01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:39,119
have taken a really good approach of

2762
01:49:39,119 --> 01:49:41,920
like trying to balance the funds with

2763
01:49:41,920 --> 01:49:44,080
the need and so just generally

2764
01:49:44,080 --> 01:49:45,600
appreciate the work you guys do. I think

2765
01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:48,080
you've been very cognizant of taxpayer

2766
01:49:48,080 --> 01:49:49,840
dollars and trying to be wise with them

2767
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:53,199
and do the best you can what you got and

2768
01:49:53,199 --> 01:49:55,280
taking a taking a good good strategy

2769
01:49:55,280 --> 01:49:57,760
around that it sounds like. So thanks.

2770
01:49:57,760 --> 01:50:00,560
>> We have a good team. Thank you.

2771
01:50:00,560 --> 01:50:01,600
>> All right.

2772
01:50:01,600 --> 01:50:03,840
>> Yeah, we're

2773
01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:06,480
>> okay. We are exactly on time for our

2774
01:50:06,480 --> 01:50:07,679
break

2775
01:50:07,679 --> 01:50:09,119
>> for 10 minutes. So

2776
01:50:09,119 --> 01:50:11,280
>> we got a bonus break in there. So

2777
01:50:11,280 --> 01:50:13,520
>> see you at 3 o'clock.

2778
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:18,149
>> Recording stopped.

2779
01:50:18,159 --> 01:50:21,440
» Your point of

2780
01:50:21,440 --> 01:50:28,310
>> We could go around very simple.

2781
01:50:28,320 --> 01:50:36,550
be like a gear replaceation.

2782
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:39,040
you spend a ton of money on something

2783
01:50:39,040 --> 01:50:41,119
that you didn't need and time and

2784
01:50:41,119 --> 01:50:44,629
resources

2785
01:50:44,639 --> 01:50:47,440
like you just kind of have to attack it

2786
01:50:47,440 --> 01:50:51,280
when it happens but then try to

2787
01:50:51,280 --> 01:50:53,360
do others when you're in there you know

2788
01:50:53,360 --> 01:50:54,320
like

2789
01:50:54,320 --> 01:50:56,239
>> hey you want to fix my hernia while

2790
01:50:56,239 --> 01:50:59,360
you're in there you know working on my

2791
01:50:59,360 --> 01:51:04,950
>> there's a lot of domains where you

2792
01:51:04,960 --> 01:51:17,590
go

2793
01:51:17,600 --> 01:51:20,080
Maybe

2794
01:51:20,080 --> 01:51:23,440
I think that macro

2795
01:51:23,440 --> 01:51:26,950
offense.

2796
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:28,960
» Well, I would say that the huge jump

2797
01:51:28,960 --> 01:51:31,119
that we had to 26,

2798
01:51:31,119 --> 01:51:32,639
>> I would say that's that's a good

2799
01:51:32,639 --> 01:51:35,920
>> sign. I agree. I totally agree 100%. I

2800
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:36,239
think

2801
01:51:36,239 --> 01:51:39,440
>> if we had Steve I would say that

2802
01:51:39,440 --> 01:51:41,760
>> if they both have so many songs there's

2803
01:51:41,760 --> 01:51:47,510
right now you're saying well

2804
01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:49,360
» you know from what I've hearing from the

2805
01:51:49,360 --> 01:51:50,480
last few years

2806
01:51:50,480 --> 01:51:58,390
>> here I heard especially

2807
01:51:58,400 --> 01:52:04,070
» I agree

2808
01:52:04,080 --> 01:52:06,880
» but we can't we can't get away from the

2809
01:52:06,880 --> 01:52:09,440
geysers that he got today

2810
01:52:09,440 --> 01:52:10,960
>> and we can't get away from all of that

2811
01:52:10,960 --> 01:52:18,790
liability.

2812
01:52:18,800 --> 01:52:22,000
But we we are to the point where we're

2813
01:52:22,000 --> 01:52:32,470
seeing

2814
01:52:32,480 --> 01:52:34,719
» I guess I guess

2815
01:52:34,719 --> 01:52:36,639
>> if you want to look at us

2816
01:52:36,639 --> 02:01:34,229
>> we got to keep Oh my.

2817
02:01:34,239 --> 02:01:36,320
Okay.

2818
02:01:36,320 --> 02:01:39,990
>> Recording in progress.

2819
02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:42,560
» All right. Next, we have a resolution to

2820
02:01:42,560 --> 02:01:45,599
place a 5.079

2821
02:01:45,599 --> 02:01:47,840
acre parcel of ground located to the

2822
02:01:47,840 --> 02:01:50,320
south of the Epic Sports Park on Lake

2823
02:01:50,320 --> 02:01:52,239
View Parkway in Provo on the surplus

2824
02:01:52,239 --> 02:01:54,800
property list. This is presented to us

2825
02:01:54,800 --> 02:01:56,480
by Cody Hill, the division director for

2826
02:01:56,480 --> 02:01:57,920
economic development.

2827
02:01:57,920 --> 02:01:58,800
>> Hello, Cody.

2828
02:01:58,800 --> 02:02:09,830
>> Hi.

2829
02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:10,719
» Thank you, council.

2830
02:02:10,719 --> 02:02:15,350
>> Just a hold up.

2831
02:02:15,360 --> 02:02:19,119
» I'm presenting like it's 2020.

2832
02:02:19,119 --> 02:02:22,960
>> Bringing back 2020 vibes. So, Okay.

2833
02:02:22,960 --> 02:02:25,254
>> He doesn't want to breathe your air.

2834
02:02:25,254 --> 02:02:26,080
[laughter]

2835
02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:27,920
>> He still is just through that mask.

2836
02:02:27,920 --> 02:02:29,280
Thank you so much, John. I really

2837
02:02:29,280 --> 02:02:31,520
appreciate your time. So, a little bit

2838
02:02:31,520 --> 02:02:34,320
of background on this site. When the

2839
02:02:34,320 --> 02:02:36,320
city had originally acquired all of the

2840
02:02:36,320 --> 02:02:39,840
acreage for the Epic Sports Park. Let me

2841
02:02:39,840 --> 02:02:42,560
see if I can No. Um, it's just north of

2842
02:02:42,560 --> 02:02:46,560
there. And when they initially acquired

2843
02:02:46,560 --> 02:02:50,400
all of that land, they had contemplated

2844
02:02:50,400 --> 02:02:53,760
zoning the bottom 5 acres commercial and

2845
02:02:53,760 --> 02:02:56,719
having that be support for their

2846
02:02:56,719 --> 02:02:58,719
operations at the epic sports park and

2847
02:02:58,719 --> 02:03:00,159
also something that could complement the

2848
02:03:00,159 --> 02:03:02,719
airport. It just made sense. And so this

2849
02:03:02,719 --> 02:03:06,159
is really a long time in in the making.

2850
02:03:06,159 --> 02:03:09,679
And so this 5 acre little little over 5

2851
02:03:09,679 --> 02:03:11,520
acre piece of property, it is already

2852
02:03:11,520 --> 02:03:16,560
zoned um SC2 and the city put out an RFP

2853
02:03:16,560 --> 02:03:20,159
recently on it and uh selected a group

2854
02:03:20,159 --> 02:03:23,440
to to work with to develop that site as

2855
02:03:23,440 --> 02:03:25,840
part of the development process. Um we

2856
02:03:25,840 --> 02:03:28,400
saw fit and necessary to surplus the

2857
02:03:28,400 --> 02:03:34,080
property. And so we um yeah, we

2858
02:03:34,080 --> 02:03:36,159
had an appraisal done on the property

2859
02:03:36,159 --> 02:03:40,800
and it was appraised at $4.36 million

2860
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:43,679
um which was actually a bit higher than

2861
02:03:43,679 --> 02:03:46,080
pumps that I put together. And then also

2862
02:03:46,080 --> 02:03:47,599
the developer that we're working with

2863
02:03:47,599 --> 02:03:50,719
had a broker's opination of value and it

2864
02:03:50,719 --> 02:03:52,239
actually came in above that. So that

2865
02:03:52,239 --> 02:03:55,840
about 4.36 million um is is the amount

2866
02:03:55,840 --> 02:03:57,360
that we got back and was actually higher

2867
02:03:57,360 --> 02:04:00,000
than than we had actually anticipated.

2868
02:04:00,000 --> 02:04:02,560
And so um

2869
02:04:02,560 --> 02:04:04,080
>> so what were what did the other two

2870
02:04:04,080 --> 02:04:06,000
appraisals say?

2871
02:04:06,000 --> 02:04:08,639
>> The the comps that I put together came

2872
02:04:08,639 --> 02:04:11,360
in at 3.7

2873
02:04:11,360 --> 02:04:13,679
and the broker's opinion of value came

2874
02:04:13,679 --> 02:04:18,000
in at the 2.8. And so that 4.3 is quite

2875
02:04:18,000 --> 02:04:19,040
a bit higher than the broker's

2876
02:04:19,040 --> 02:04:22,480
opination. and even my a little bit

2877
02:04:22,480 --> 02:04:25,440
above the comps that I put together the

2878
02:04:25,440 --> 02:04:29,040
comparables. So, um so yeah, we are

2879
02:04:29,040 --> 02:04:30,719
working right now with the development

2880
02:04:30,719 --> 02:04:35,119
group to um term sheet and we'll discuss

2881
02:04:35,119 --> 02:04:37,760
that in the very near future. But if

2882
02:04:37,760 --> 02:04:40,239
there's any questions about this uh

2883
02:04:40,239 --> 02:04:42,960
5acre piece of land, the background,

2884
02:04:42,960 --> 02:04:44,719
what's contemplated for future, happy we

2885
02:04:44,719 --> 02:04:46,880
discuss that.

2886
02:04:46,880 --> 02:04:50,080
Okay. Any questions for Cody? Council

2887
02:04:50,080 --> 02:04:50,960
Bogdan.

2888
02:04:50,960 --> 02:04:52,239
>> So, is there anything that we can give

2889
02:04:52,239 --> 02:04:54,159
the public like what was in the RFP that

2890
02:04:54,159 --> 02:04:57,599
we're asking for down there? Like give

2891
02:04:57,599 --> 02:05:00,159
them a heads up of what's coming.

2892
02:05:00,159 --> 02:05:02,480
>> I think once we have a development

2893
02:05:02,480 --> 02:05:05,760
agreement ironed out with the city, then it is a good time to start reaching

2894
02:05:05,760 --> 02:05:07,199
out to the public and and letting them

2895
02:05:07,199 --> 02:05:09,360
know that this is coming online. But I

2896
02:05:09,360 --> 02:05:11,760
think from the West Provo perspective,

2897
02:05:11,760 --> 02:05:14,239
it'll be pretty exciting to have not

2898
02:05:14,239 --> 02:05:16,800
just, you know, um, accommodations, but

2899
02:05:16,800 --> 02:05:20,000
also retail space, um, and [snorts] a

2900
02:05:20,000 --> 02:05:21,520
gas station and a convenience store

2901
02:05:21,520 --> 02:05:22,000
there.

2902
02:05:22,000 --> 02:05:24,080
>> So, we put out on the RFP that we wanted

2903
02:05:24,080 --> 02:05:27,119
a gas station, a convenience store,

2904
02:05:27,119 --> 02:05:28,960
and retail space. Is that what you said?

2905
02:05:28,960 --> 02:05:30,080
>> Yeah. And a hotel.

2906
02:05:30,080 --> 02:05:30,960
>> And a hotel.

2907
02:05:30,960 --> 02:05:31,440
>> Yes.

2908
02:05:31,440 --> 02:05:32,000
>> So,

2909
02:05:32,000 --> 02:05:34,239
>> and councelor Bugden, the RFP document

2910
02:05:34,239 --> 02:05:36,320
itself is a public document. I mean, you

2911
02:05:36,320 --> 02:05:38,480
can get that and you can distribute that

2912
02:05:38,480 --> 02:05:40,320
if you want to. All it does is say what

2913
02:05:40,320 --> 02:05:41,679
we were asking for, not what we're

2914
02:05:41,679 --> 02:05:44,080
getting. But that document is public.

2915
02:05:44,080 --> 02:05:47,280
>> Okay. Thank you, [clears throat]

2916
02:05:47,280 --> 02:05:49,520
>> Cody. Am I remembering that this 5 acre

2917
02:05:49,520 --> 02:05:52,159
parcel has already been leveled and

2918
02:05:52,159 --> 02:05:53,199
filled?

2919
02:05:53,199 --> 02:05:55,199
>> It's it's very close to shovel ready.

2920
02:05:55,199 --> 02:05:58,159
Yeah, it's very close to shovel ready.

2921
02:05:58,159 --> 02:06:00,480
The the utilities are are there are

2922
02:06:00,480 --> 02:06:02,239
lined up and

2923
02:06:02,239 --> 02:06:03,679
>> Yeah. So, I think a little bit of

2924
02:06:03,679 --> 02:06:05,280
grading and earth work will be required.

2925
02:06:05,280 --> 02:06:11,750
Not very much. And then Yeah.

2926
02:06:11,760 --> 02:06:13,840
» All right. I think that's it.

2927
02:06:13,840 --> 02:06:15,760
>> Thank you.

2928
02:06:15,760 --> 02:06:17,920
>> Thanks, Cody. All right. Next, a

2929
02:06:17,920 --> 02:06:19,760
discussion regarding external accessory

2930
02:06:19,760 --> 02:06:21,119
dwelling units. This will be presented

2931
02:06:21,119 --> 02:06:23,119
by Malia Dailyaly, the council policy

2932
02:06:23,119 --> 02:06:28,950
analyst.

2933
02:06:28,960 --> 02:06:33,669
Okay. Awesome.

2934
02:06:33,679 --> 02:06:35,760
Okay. My presentation is fairly short,

2935
02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:38,560
but if you notice, there's a lot of time

2936
02:06:38,560 --> 02:06:40,800
slated for this item. Our goal is to

2937
02:06:40,800 --> 02:06:44,079
just get any and all amendments we might

2938
02:06:44,079 --> 02:06:47,599
possibly want done today so then we can

2939
02:06:47,599 --> 02:06:49,199
move forward. And we're going to do it,

2940
02:06:49,199 --> 02:06:50,800
guys. We can do it. I promise.

2941
02:06:50,800 --> 02:06:51,840
>> You believe in us?

2942
02:06:51,840 --> 02:06:56,880
>> I do. So, this is coming about one. And

2943
02:06:56,880 --> 02:06:58,000
we were going to talk about this anyway

2944
02:06:58,000 --> 02:07:00,239
because it's statemandated changes we

2945
02:07:00,239 --> 02:07:04,159
have to make to our ADU chapter which is

2946
02:07:04,159 --> 02:07:06,400
14:30. But then also there was a

2947
02:07:06,400 --> 02:07:08,800
majority of council that wanted to

2948
02:07:08,800 --> 02:07:12,480
discuss this pre the implementation date

2949
02:07:12,480 --> 02:07:15,119
of October 1st to just relook at our

2950
02:07:15,119 --> 02:07:17,360
code see if there's any other

2951
02:07:17,360 --> 02:07:20,159
regulations we want to take away or add

2952
02:07:20,159 --> 02:07:22,719
before the October 1st implementation

2953
02:07:22,719 --> 02:07:27,280
date. So this hopefully is the simplest

2954
02:07:27,280 --> 02:07:29,920
way to talk about external IDUs.

2955
02:07:29,920 --> 02:07:33,760
Everything in blue is SB284 changes that

2956
02:07:33,760 --> 02:07:37,840
the state is requiring of us. So

2957
02:07:37,840 --> 02:07:40,400
prohibited and allowed zones. The the

2958
02:07:40,400 --> 02:07:43,199
change about where external ADUs are

2959
02:07:43,199 --> 02:07:46,560
allowed is any parcel in the city that

2960
02:07:46,560 --> 02:07:50,960
is 11,000 ft or greater and permits or

2961
02:07:50,960 --> 02:07:52,880
allows single family dwellings. So, it's

2962
02:07:52,880 --> 02:07:55,119
not necessarily a residential zone,

2963
02:07:55,119 --> 02:07:57,840
which I made the mistake of saying at

2964
02:07:57,840 --> 02:08:00,880
first. It's any parcel in the city that

2965
02:08:00,880 --> 02:08:03,520
allows single family dwellings as a use

2966
02:08:03,520 --> 02:08:07,599
and is 11,000 ft in our city that almost

2967
02:08:07,599 --> 02:08:09,199
completely overlaps with only

2968
02:08:09,199 --> 02:08:11,440
residential zones. There's like one

2969
02:08:11,440 --> 02:08:14,560
zone, I think it's the West Gateway zone

2970
02:08:14,560 --> 02:08:17,440
that allows single family dwellings

2971
02:08:17,440 --> 02:08:19,440
and that's it. That's not primarily

2972
02:08:19,440 --> 02:08:22,639
residential. So,

2973
02:08:22,639 --> 02:08:25,440
And then this is a very simplified

2974
02:08:25,440 --> 02:08:27,280
version of our current regulations on

2975
02:08:27,280 --> 02:08:29,440
external ADUs.

2976
02:08:29,440 --> 02:08:32,079
And then you can see here the regulation

2977
02:08:32,079 --> 02:08:33,840
that we have to change because of the

2978
02:08:33,840 --> 02:08:37,599
state is our parking standard. So right

2979
02:08:37,599 --> 02:08:40,159
now we say you have to have four off-

2980
02:08:40,159 --> 02:08:42,400
streetet parking spots for an external

2981
02:08:42,400 --> 02:08:45,760
AU. The state code is changing that. You

2982
02:08:45,760 --> 02:08:49,040
can require two if the unit is 650

2983
02:08:49,040 --> 02:08:53,040
square ft and only one if it's 650 or

2984
02:08:53,040 --> 02:08:55,760
less. So, we do have to change that. The

2985
02:08:55,760 --> 02:08:58,800
state code is pretty

2986
02:08:58,800 --> 02:09:01,199
quiet on the rest of the regulations

2987
02:09:01,199 --> 02:09:04,000
besides parking and the parcel size. So,

2988
02:09:04,000 --> 02:09:07,520
as far as So, in the packet I gave this

2989
02:09:07,520 --> 02:09:10,639
giant comparisons to other cities and I

2990
02:09:10,639 --> 02:09:12,320
also sent you the accelerating so you

2991
02:09:12,320 --> 02:09:15,520
could actually read it. Um

2992
02:09:15,520 --> 02:09:17,840
those are all of those regulations

2993
02:09:17,840 --> 02:09:20,239
besides the parking and some of the

2994
02:09:20,239 --> 02:09:21,760
permitted zones just because of the

2995
02:09:21,760 --> 02:09:26,480
parcel we can adjust we can change.

2996
02:09:26,480 --> 02:09:30,320
So this is just the map I wanted to show

2997
02:09:30,320 --> 02:09:32,239
really quick.

2998
02:09:32,239 --> 02:09:36,400
Um and this is also online on the city's

2999
02:09:36,400 --> 02:09:39,520
website. The city's website map is a

3000
02:09:39,520 --> 02:09:42,079
little bit different because there's map

3001
02:09:42,079 --> 02:09:43,760
in the

3002
02:09:43,760 --> 02:09:47,520
unfortunately. Um,

3003
02:09:47,520 --> 02:09:49,440
but

3004
02:09:49,440 --> 02:09:50,800
>> I'll get it.

3005
02:09:50,800 --> 02:09:54,480
>> Okay. Anyway, the map on the city's

3006
02:09:54,480 --> 02:09:56,880
website doesn't have the yellow parcels

3007
02:09:56,880 --> 02:10:01,679
within the blue overlay. So,

3008
02:10:01,679 --> 02:10:04,400
all this is showing. So, the blue is

3009
02:10:04,400 --> 02:10:06,800
currently it says overlay. We don't

3010
02:10:06,800 --> 02:10:08,880
technically have

3011
02:10:08,880 --> 02:10:12,560
a nuance. Um the blue is where ADUs as

3012
02:10:12,560 --> 02:10:15,520
we stand to today right now where they

3013
02:10:15,520 --> 02:10:18,800
are allowed by zoning or by area. That

3014
02:10:18,800 --> 02:10:20,079
doesn't mean they can just go have them.

3015
02:10:20,079 --> 02:10:21,199
They still have to go through all the

3016
02:10:21,199 --> 02:10:22,880
regulations and the license. That's

3017
02:10:22,880 --> 02:10:26,320
where it's allowed. The yellow is where

3018
02:10:26,320 --> 02:10:28,320
now if you are within there now you're

3019
02:10:28,320 --> 02:10:30,480
doubly allowed I guess because now you

3020
02:10:30,480 --> 02:10:33,360
also allow under SB284.

3021
02:10:33,360 --> 02:10:35,119
But it also includes a lot of hair in

3022
02:10:35,119 --> 02:10:36,480
the tree streets. A lot in the

3023
02:10:36,480 --> 02:10:39,199
northeast. There's some on the west

3024
02:10:39,199 --> 02:10:41,280
side. Again, a lot of these parcels are

3025
02:10:41,280 --> 02:10:44,480
not necessarily like south of Lake View

3026
02:10:44,480 --> 02:10:47,199
Parkway just because that parcel is

3027
02:10:47,199 --> 02:10:48,960
zoned something that allows single

3028
02:10:48,960 --> 02:10:50,800
family dwelling.

3029
02:10:50,800 --> 02:10:53,280
There might not even be a house on it,

3030
02:10:53,280 --> 02:10:56,159
but the zone does allow it. So, if a

3031
02:10:56,159 --> 02:10:57,679
house ever happened there one day, it

3032
02:10:57,679 --> 02:10:59,920
could, I guess, unless the zone changed

3033
02:10:59,920 --> 02:11:02,239
to a zone that didn't allow single

3034
02:11:02,239 --> 02:11:04,960
family dwellings, then it wouldn't. But

3035
02:11:04,960 --> 02:11:07,040
so that's kind of that map.

3036
02:11:07,040 --> 02:11:07,840
>> I have a question.

3037
02:11:07,840 --> 02:11:08,400
>> Yeah.

3038
02:11:08,400 --> 02:11:10,960
>> So does this just allow for external

3039
02:11:10,960 --> 02:11:12,320
ADUs, not an internal?

3040
02:11:12,320 --> 02:11:14,079
>> Just external. Yep.

3041
02:11:14,079 --> 02:11:16,560
>> So even in those northeast ones where

3042
02:11:16,560 --> 02:11:19,280
it's not currently permissible, they are

3043
02:11:19,280 --> 02:11:21,599
only allowed to do it outside of the

3044
02:11:21,599 --> 02:11:22,400
house.

3045
02:11:22,400 --> 02:11:25,599
>> So external on the northeast a little.

3046
02:11:25,599 --> 02:11:28,159
Perfect. That's great. So you can see

3047
02:11:28,159 --> 02:11:31,599
here like this outline of blue here. So

3048
02:11:31,599 --> 02:11:33,840
those are allow. But then here I feel

3049
02:11:33,840 --> 02:11:36,320
like all reception

3050
02:11:36,320 --> 02:11:38,560
they're allowed external if they go by

3051
02:11:38,560 --> 02:11:40,639
all the regulations but they still would

3052
02:11:40,639 --> 02:11:43,360
not be allowed to enter.

3053
02:11:43,360 --> 02:11:45,920
So anywhere that's not also have a

3054
02:11:45,920 --> 02:11:47,760
little blue

3055
02:11:47,760 --> 02:11:50,079
outline

3056
02:11:50,079 --> 02:11:52,719
it's just external. So there's a couple

3057
02:11:52,719 --> 02:11:55,840
places that allow internal and they'll

3058
02:11:55,840 --> 02:11:58,159
be double covered. I don't know what to

3059
02:11:58,159 --> 02:12:02,719
say, but the map online is a little bit

3060
02:12:02,719 --> 02:12:04,560
more simple because it doesn't have the

3061
02:12:04,560 --> 02:12:07,599
overlay of both.

3062
02:12:07,599 --> 02:12:10,000
But

3063
02:12:10,000 --> 02:12:11,040
thank you.

3064
02:12:11,040 --> 02:12:14,149
>> Yeah.

3065
02:12:14,159 --> 02:12:16,960
Okay, Kevin, if we can go to the next

3066
02:12:16,960 --> 02:12:19,360
slide and go back to the slides. Thank

3067
02:12:19,360 --> 02:12:20,320
you.

3068
02:12:20,320 --> 02:12:22,000
>> I'll keep this just in case.

3069
02:12:22,000 --> 02:12:23,840
>> Perfect.

3070
02:12:23,840 --> 02:12:24,480
>> There you go.

3071
02:12:24,480 --> 02:12:26,239
>> Great.

3072
02:12:26,239 --> 02:12:27,599
So that's just about everywhere in the

3073
02:12:27,599 --> 02:12:28,320
city, right?

3074
02:12:28,320 --> 02:12:33,189
>> Yeah. Oh, Kevin, it's like

3075
02:12:33,199 --> 02:12:36,079
it's not the full thing.

3076
02:12:36,079 --> 02:12:37,760
You just exit out and then go back into

3077
02:12:37,760 --> 02:12:40,480
it. Anyway,

3078
02:12:40,480 --> 02:12:42,719
now it's time for council discussion.

3079
02:12:42,719 --> 02:12:45,599
Thanks, Kevin. So, two options. one, if

3080
02:12:45,599 --> 02:12:47,040
there are amendments that the council

3081
02:12:47,040 --> 02:12:50,079
wants to make and made that comparison

3082
02:12:50,079 --> 02:12:52,960
sheet just to kind of a starting point

3083
02:12:52,960 --> 02:12:54,480
and something else to look at and see

3084
02:12:54,480 --> 02:12:56,000
what other cities are doing and maybe

3085
02:12:56,000 --> 02:12:58,239
you want to tweak something they're

3086
02:12:58,239 --> 02:13:00,639
doing or adopt something they're doing

3087
02:13:00,639 --> 02:13:04,000
or if you have a idea that's not within

3088
02:13:04,000 --> 02:13:06,079
other cities that's fine as well as long

3089
02:13:06,079 --> 02:13:09,520
as Brian says it's legal and then we can

3090
02:13:09,520 --> 02:13:12,560
do those amendments or no amendments and

3091
02:13:12,560 --> 02:13:14,719
then just as part of the zoning I mean,

3092
02:13:14,719 --> 02:13:17,119
you're right, that is coming to council

3093
02:13:17,119 --> 02:13:19,840
late summer, early fall,

3094
02:13:19,840 --> 02:13:22,320
then we'll just update it in 14:30 just

3095
02:13:22,320 --> 02:13:24,079
with the minimum state requirements,

3096
02:13:24,079 --> 02:13:26,800
which are back on that other slide. But

3097
02:13:26,800 --> 02:13:28,800
if there are amendments,

3098
02:13:28,800 --> 02:13:30,320
then we'll decide if we want to go

3099
02:13:30,320 --> 02:13:32,639
option one or option two. Option one

3100
02:13:32,639 --> 02:13:35,760
just being we take those amendments, we

3101
02:13:35,760 --> 02:13:39,119
say noted, we work with legal to write

3102
02:13:39,119 --> 02:13:41,920
those into the new zoning rewrite in

3103
02:13:41,920 --> 02:13:44,880
1430. And then it just comes as part of

3104
02:13:44,880 --> 02:13:46,719
that package of the new zoning code

3105
02:13:46,719 --> 02:13:48,719
rewrite that we are going to adopt al

3106
02:13:48,719 --> 02:13:52,000
together in late summer, early fall. Or

3107
02:13:52,000 --> 02:13:54,800
we can do option two, which is also just

3108
02:13:54,800 --> 02:13:58,000
as easy, which is where we just

3109
02:13:58,000 --> 02:14:00,159
incorporate those into 14:30 starting

3110
02:14:00,159 --> 02:14:03,360
now, which means we could get on June

3111
02:14:03,360 --> 02:14:05,760
10th planning commission and then July

3112
02:14:05,760 --> 02:14:08,239
14th council meeting for passage. So it

3113
02:14:08,239 --> 02:14:11,360
would be a couple months earlier but

3114
02:14:11,360 --> 02:14:13,440
>> and is there a benefit to one versus

3115
02:14:13,440 --> 02:14:14,239
two?

3116
02:14:14,239 --> 02:14:16,320
>> Just the timing of when you want new if

3117
02:14:16,320 --> 02:14:18,000
there are new regulations when you want

3118
02:14:18,000 --> 02:14:20,639
those enacted.

3119
02:14:20,639 --> 02:14:25,520
So it would also Oh go ahead. Well, I I

3120
02:14:25,520 --> 02:14:27,360
was going to chime in from a completely

3121
02:14:27,360 --> 02:14:30,560
selfish perspective after spending an

3122
02:14:30,560 --> 02:14:32,880
entire flight down to Chile and 20 hours

3123
02:14:32,880 --> 02:14:35,840
sitting in my stepmother's kitchen uh

3124
02:14:35,840 --> 02:14:38,079
finishing the zoning rewrite.

3125
02:14:38,079 --> 02:14:40,000
>> I'd love everything that you want to do

3126
02:14:40,000 --> 02:14:42,079
in Title 14 to get pushed off until we

3127
02:14:42,079 --> 02:14:44,560
actually finish the zoning rewrite

3128
02:14:44,560 --> 02:14:47,199
because everything we do before then we

3129
02:14:47,199 --> 02:14:48,960
have to make the change and then

3130
02:14:48,960 --> 02:14:53,440
reinccorporate it into the changes. But having said that, if there's any

3131
02:14:53,440 --> 02:14:54,159
urgency,

3132
02:14:54,159 --> 02:14:55,238
>> is there any responsibility

3133
02:14:55,238 --> 02:14:56,239
[clears throat]

3134
02:14:56,239 --> 02:14:58,239
uh to the city or any exposure to the

3135
02:14:58,239 --> 02:15:00,560
city by not communicating that standard

3136
02:15:00,560 --> 02:15:01,760
earlier?

3137
02:15:01,760 --> 02:15:03,679
>> No. No. As long as we have it in place

3138
02:15:03,679 --> 02:15:08,709
by October, there's no problem.

3139
02:15:08,719 --> 02:15:10,800
» Yes. Well, I think so. I haven't had a

3140
02:15:10,800 --> 02:15:12,239
chance to talk to Aaron since I've been

3141
02:15:12,239 --> 02:15:13,040
back, but I

3142
02:15:13,040 --> 02:15:14,480
>> It's going to planning commission work

3143
02:15:14,480 --> 02:15:16,639
session tomorrow

3144
02:15:16,639 --> 02:15:18,960
and then it will go to the next planning

3145
02:15:18,960 --> 02:15:20,239
commission after that which I think

3146
02:15:20,239 --> 02:15:21,679
>> isn't just part of it going to them is

3147
02:15:21,679 --> 02:15:22,239
the whole thing.

3148
02:15:22,239 --> 02:15:23,280
>> They're doing it they're splitting it

3149
02:15:23,280 --> 02:15:26,560
into two parts. So the part one is going

3150
02:15:26,560 --> 02:15:29,760
and then so that's why I said we don't

3151
02:15:29,760 --> 02:15:32,480
have an exact timeline but it'll be

3152
02:15:32,480 --> 02:15:35,360
before the October 1st deadline.

3153
02:15:35,360 --> 02:15:38,480
So there is no

3154
02:15:38,480 --> 02:15:41,199
there but anyway. So now it's open. We

3155
02:15:41,199 --> 02:15:43,840
have scheduled a lot of time to just try

3156
02:15:43,840 --> 02:15:46,639
and get out any amendments that we might

3157
02:15:46,639 --> 02:15:49,440
want. Now, Councelor Christensen,

3158
02:15:49,440 --> 02:15:52,159
>> so uh your sheet was actually very

3159
02:15:52,159 --> 02:15:54,639
helpful, uh to see what other cities are

3160
02:15:54,639 --> 02:15:56,000
doing. And so I went through and cherry

3161
02:15:56,000 --> 02:15:57,520
pick.

3162
02:15:57,520 --> 02:16:00,880
Um I would love to see us

3163
02:16:00,880 --> 02:16:06,400
keep them to one story in the basement.

3164
02:16:06,400 --> 02:16:08,800
I'd like to see to make sure that we're

3165
02:16:08,800 --> 02:16:10,719
we put in language about not having

3166
02:16:10,719 --> 02:16:12,560
opposing windows. You're not, you know,

3167
02:16:12,560 --> 02:16:14,480
looking into another. That's that's

3168
02:16:14,480 --> 02:16:16,960
possible. The third would be to have a

3169
02:16:16,960 --> 02:16:18,960
specific ratio.

3170
02:16:18,960 --> 02:16:23,040
What um what kind of ratio of 25% of the

3171
02:16:23,040 --> 02:16:27,040
house or 10% or 50% or but some ratio

3172
02:16:27,040 --> 02:16:30,079
where the that dwell that unit cannot be

3173
02:16:30,079 --> 02:16:31,520
more than certain percent.

3174
02:16:31,520 --> 02:16:34,559
>> Yeah. Like some cities

3175
02:16:34,559 --> 02:16:36,880
said you can only have if your lot is

3176
02:16:36,880 --> 02:16:39,040
this big, it can only be this percentage

3177
02:16:39,040 --> 02:16:41,359
of the lot versus some say it can only

3178
02:16:41,359 --> 02:16:43,200
be this percentage of the square foot of

3179
02:16:43,200 --> 02:16:44,319
the primary dwelling.

3180
02:16:44,319 --> 02:16:46,960
>> Yeah, I would be on the lot

3181
02:16:46,960 --> 02:16:49,599
>> of the primary. Okay.

3182
02:16:49,599 --> 02:16:53,200
Can I mention something there?

3183
02:16:53,200 --> 02:16:56,880
>> We do have um we do have code that says

3184
02:16:56,880 --> 02:16:58,719
like what percentage of the lot can be

3185
02:16:58,719 --> 02:17:00,960
taken up with

3186
02:17:00,960 --> 02:17:02,479
um [clears throat] housing already. I I

3187
02:17:02,479 --> 02:17:04,800
don't know if you want to take a look at

3188
02:17:04,800 --> 02:17:06,160
what that is.

3189
02:17:06,160 --> 02:17:07,040
>> Setback requirements.

3190
02:17:07,040 --> 02:17:08,399
>> Yeah, setback requirement. There's all

3191
02:17:08,399 --> 02:17:10,319
kinds of things like that. So,

3192
02:17:10,319 --> 02:17:12,559
>> yeah, the surface area coverage is

3193
02:17:12,559 --> 02:17:13,920
already limited.

3194
02:17:13,920 --> 02:17:16,639
>> Yeah. So, it's not like and I think that

3195
02:17:16,639 --> 02:17:18,639
also you can't make I think state law

3196
02:17:18,639 --> 02:17:20,319
says you can't make these larger than

3197
02:17:20,319 --> 02:17:22,960
the home that's existing either. So, I

3198
02:17:22,960 --> 02:17:24,000
don't know. It just might be something

3199
02:17:24,000 --> 02:17:25,200
you want to look at.

3200
02:17:25,200 --> 02:17:27,760
>> Yeah. And that's why I was thinking it

3201
02:17:27,760 --> 02:17:30,319
would be helpful if you give specifics

3202
02:17:30,319 --> 02:17:31,599
to that

3203
02:17:31,599 --> 02:17:33,439
>> within 1430.

3204
02:17:33,439 --> 02:17:34,000
>> Yes.

3205
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:34,479
>> Okay.

3206
02:17:34,479 --> 02:17:36,160
>> So,

3207
02:17:36,160 --> 02:17:36,880
council,

3208
02:17:36,880 --> 02:17:39,280
>> selfishly, I think I don't like what you

3209
02:17:39,280 --> 02:17:42,240
just said. selfishly. That's understood

3210
02:17:42,240 --> 02:17:45,679
>> because um for a house like mine that

3211
02:17:45,679 --> 02:17:47,679
doesn't already have a garage, I would

3212
02:17:47,679 --> 02:17:49,040
like to build a garage with a little

3213
02:17:49,040 --> 02:17:51,040
apartment above it. But if you're just

3214
02:17:51,040 --> 02:17:54,000
saying a a singlestory thing, then you

3215
02:17:54,000 --> 02:17:55,840
couldn't do a garage with an apartment

3216
02:17:55,840 --> 02:17:58,800
above it. And I've seen a couple of

3217
02:17:58,800 --> 02:18:01,599
those going in my neighborhood because

3218
02:18:01,599 --> 02:18:03,359
we do have old houses that don't have

3219
02:18:03,359 --> 02:18:05,359
attached garages.

3220
02:18:05,359 --> 02:18:08,000
>> So I I think that you're cutting off

3221
02:18:08,000 --> 02:18:09,599
that possibility. that is actually

3222
02:18:09,599 --> 02:18:11,679
really useful for a lot of our external

3223
02:18:11,679 --> 02:18:15,200
ADUs. And my house is, you know, two

3224
02:18:15,200 --> 02:18:16,880
stories plus an attic, so it's really

3225
02:18:16,880 --> 02:18:19,359
tall. And so I could easily build

3226
02:18:19,359 --> 02:18:21,280
something that is, you know, below the

3227
02:18:21,280 --> 02:18:23,760
height requirement that matches

3228
02:18:23,760 --> 02:18:25,920
architecturally, but it wouldn't have a

3229
02:18:25,920 --> 02:18:27,840
basement, right? And digging out a

3230
02:18:27,840 --> 02:18:29,920
basement is a different kind of expense.

3231
02:18:29,920 --> 02:18:33,040
So I I wanted to push back on that

3232
02:18:33,040 --> 02:18:37,760
suggestion with with these reasons.

3233
02:18:37,760 --> 02:18:40,639
She brings up a good point. Like in

3234
02:18:40,639 --> 02:18:42,160
Southwest Pro, you really can't have a

3235
02:18:42,160 --> 02:18:44,160
basement,

3236
02:18:44,160 --> 02:18:45,439
right? You just have a starting

3237
02:18:45,439 --> 02:18:46,960
elevation and if you have a basement,

3238
02:18:46,960 --> 02:18:48,800
they bring in the filter to make it look

3239
02:18:48,800 --> 02:18:50,399
like a closet basement, but it's not a

3240
02:18:50,399 --> 02:18:53,519
basement. So

3241
02:18:53,519 --> 02:18:56,399
maybe one level and no basement. I I

3242
02:18:56,399 --> 02:18:58,880
just I can see that being an issue.

3243
02:18:58,880 --> 02:19:03,429
Yeah.

3244
02:19:03,439 --> 02:19:07,519
So just on the height discussion,

3245
02:19:07,519 --> 02:19:10,000
>> exactly. Now we allow this. It it can't

3246
02:19:10,000 --> 02:19:11,280
be larger than the house.

3247
02:19:11,280 --> 02:19:12,559
>> It has to be less than the main

3248
02:19:12,559 --> 02:19:12,880
dwelling,

3249
02:19:12,880 --> 02:19:14,559
>> but it could be like one inch less than

3250
02:19:14,559 --> 02:19:15,840
the main dwelling, right?

3251
02:19:15,840 --> 02:19:17,280
>> It just says less than the main

3252
02:19:17,280 --> 02:19:17,840
dwelling.

3253
02:19:17,840 --> 02:19:19,599
>> Okay. Um

3254
02:19:19,599 --> 02:19:21,439
>> as long to the mayor's point, as long as

3255
02:19:21,439 --> 02:19:23,760
it doesn't exceed the the lot coverage.

3256
02:19:23,760 --> 02:19:26,800
>> Yes. because we also have setbacks

3257
02:19:26,800 --> 02:19:27,679
>> that it has to be

3258
02:19:27,679 --> 02:19:30,880
>> a lot to have a look at your house.

3259
02:19:30,880 --> 02:19:32,800
>> Yeah. We've seen a couple and we've

3260
02:19:32,800 --> 02:19:34,479
gotten calls on them and asked to go

3261
02:19:34,479 --> 02:19:36,240
look at them that are very tall and

3262
02:19:36,240 --> 02:19:38,880
skinny in like like three levels and

3263
02:19:38,880 --> 02:19:40,719
like

3264
02:19:40,719 --> 02:19:42,960
so and they're likew they're looking in

3265
02:19:42,960 --> 02:19:44,800
on people's yards and definitely

3266
02:19:44,800 --> 02:19:49,760
changing the privacy or of the area.

3267
02:19:49,760 --> 02:19:51,920
Trying to think. There was a city that

3268
02:19:51,920 --> 02:19:55,920
had depending on

3269
02:19:55,920 --> 02:19:58,399
uh

3270
02:19:58,399 --> 02:20:01,439
oh, it's West Jordan.

3271
02:20:01,439 --> 02:20:03,280
It just has the maximum building height

3272
02:20:03,280 --> 02:20:08,080
is 20 ft or 17 ft high if it's in a

3273
02:20:08,080 --> 02:20:10,479
certain part of the property. Like if

3274
02:20:10,479 --> 02:20:12,319
it's if you're set back, your closest

3275
02:20:12,319 --> 02:20:14,080
setback is from the sidey yard versus

3276
02:20:14,080 --> 02:20:17,840
the rear yard plus one additional foot

3277
02:20:17,840 --> 02:20:20,720
of height. Anyway, they have like a

3278
02:20:20,720 --> 02:20:22,960
bunch of if then statements on the

3279
02:20:22,960 --> 02:20:25,040
height. Well, in that the height thing

3280
02:20:25,040 --> 02:20:27,359
is the issue, right, on like overlooking

3281
02:20:27,359 --> 02:20:30,000
Tiff Falls, but I agree that garages

3282
02:20:30,000 --> 02:20:33,120
that is a very good way to use an ADU.

3283
02:20:33,120 --> 02:20:35,439
But if we incorporate the no windows

3284
02:20:35,439 --> 02:20:38,319
that would those have to be one level

3285
02:20:38,319 --> 02:20:41,439
above the garage and then no windows on

3286
02:20:41,439 --> 02:20:42,720
>> no windows looking

3287
02:20:42,720 --> 02:20:45,120
>> like Murray did no windows looking in

3288
02:20:45,120 --> 02:20:47,439
over yards

3289
02:20:47,439 --> 02:20:48,880
>> or if you're going to be higher then

3290
02:20:48,880 --> 02:20:51,200
you're further back kind of like we're

3291
02:20:51,200 --> 02:20:54,080
thinking about with the

3292
02:20:54,080 --> 02:20:56,880
Brit like the mall redevelopment. We

3293
02:20:56,880 --> 02:20:58,160
didn't want those in heaven's homes

3294
02:20:58,160 --> 02:21:00,720
looking right over or the apartments

3295
02:21:00,720 --> 02:21:02,319
being right on top of the homes next to

3296
02:21:02,319 --> 02:21:03,439
them or Yeah.

3297
02:21:03,439 --> 02:21:07,520
>> Do like fiery living see like regress

3298
02:21:07,520 --> 02:21:09,600
windows without window like bedrooms

3299
02:21:09,600 --> 02:21:10,880
without windows I guess.

3300
02:21:10,880 --> 02:21:12,560
>> Yeah.

3301
02:21:12,560 --> 02:21:14,640
The design I don't know. Seems like it

3302
02:21:14,640 --> 02:21:16,640
could make for a really ugly apartment

3303
02:21:16,640 --> 02:21:18,960
if you don't have windows

3304
02:21:18,960 --> 02:21:20,960
>> or has fire code. I don't think. Well,

3305
02:21:20,960 --> 02:21:23,359
it wouldn't be a little big.

3306
02:21:23,359 --> 02:21:24,800
>> Yeah. you just wouldn't be able to have

3307
02:21:24,800 --> 02:21:25,359
any better.

3308
02:21:25,359 --> 02:21:27,760
>> What is What is Murray's?

3309
02:21:27,760 --> 02:21:30,640
>> Murray's just has

3310
02:21:30,640 --> 02:21:33,760
the different setbacks based based on

3311
02:21:33,760 --> 02:21:35,439
where you're putting it in your yard.

3312
02:21:35,439 --> 02:21:38,000
So, if it's in the corner sideyard,

3313
02:21:38,000 --> 02:21:40,160
which I don't know how that's defined,

3314
02:21:40,160 --> 02:21:43,280
it's 20 ft from both property lines side

3315
02:21:43,280 --> 02:21:45,680
and then it's just sideyard 10 ft, just

3316
02:21:45,680 --> 02:21:49,439
rear yard 10t. And then it has to be

3317
02:21:49,439 --> 02:21:53,920
a one-story structure. If it's

3318
02:21:53,920 --> 02:21:57,600
in the corner in the rear yard, it can

3319
02:21:57,600 --> 02:21:59,680
be a twostory structure if it meets

3320
02:21:59,680 --> 02:22:01,680
single family dwelling setbacks for the

3321
02:22:01,680 --> 02:22:05,439
zone and maintains a minimum separation

3322
02:22:05,439 --> 02:22:07,840
from the primary dwelling and once lines

3323
02:22:07,840 --> 02:22:10,240
in addition to the setback. So they just

3324
02:22:10,240 --> 02:22:11,760
have

3325
02:22:11,760 --> 02:22:13,280
I think de facto. It doesn't say

3326
02:22:13,280 --> 02:22:14,960
anything necessarily on the windows, but

3327
02:22:14,960 --> 02:22:16,399
I think de facto the windows aren't

3328
02:22:16,399 --> 02:22:17,920
going to look over because your setbacks

3329
02:22:17,920 --> 02:22:18,960
equaling like

3330
02:22:18,960 --> 02:22:20,479
>> this instead be the code that there were

3331
02:22:20,479 --> 02:22:22,000
no windows. You could look over. We

3332
02:22:22,000 --> 02:22:23,359
couldn't look over certain.

3333
02:22:23,359 --> 02:22:25,120
>> Okay, I'll double check on that then.

3334
02:22:25,120 --> 02:22:26,640
>> I get the principle of it. I wonder if

3335
02:22:26,640 --> 02:22:29,120
we should as a council decide on the

3336
02:22:29,120 --> 02:22:30,880
things we like and don't like in

3337
02:22:30,880 --> 02:22:33,439
practice and then have have maybe have

3338
02:22:33,439 --> 02:22:35,920
staff back

3339
02:22:35,920 --> 02:22:36,640
there's lots of

3340
02:22:36,640 --> 02:22:38,720
>> so like I don't I mean generally I just

3341
02:22:38,720 --> 02:22:40,160
say I don't like the idea of somebody

3342
02:22:40,160 --> 02:22:42,319
building this massive two or three story

3343
02:22:42,319 --> 02:22:45,280
ADU in their backyard when people have

3344
02:22:45,280 --> 02:22:47,040
purchased homes around them with the

3345
02:22:47,040 --> 02:22:49,120
expectation of like oh I bought this

3346
02:22:49,120 --> 02:22:51,280
home and here's my privacy here's my

3347
02:22:51,280 --> 02:22:53,120
backyard and all of a sudden boom you

3348
02:22:53,120 --> 02:22:54,399
know they lose their shade for their

3349
02:22:54,399 --> 02:22:56,399
garden or they they lose the sunlight

3350
02:22:56,399 --> 02:22:57,760
for their garden or whatever it might

3351
02:22:57,760 --> 02:22:59,439
be, right? It could it can be pretty

3352
02:22:59,439 --> 02:23:02,160
disruptive of somebody's quality of life

3353
02:23:02,160 --> 02:23:05,120
to like have that, you know, all of a

3354
02:23:05,120 --> 02:23:07,280
sudden in their backyard

3355
02:23:07,280 --> 02:23:09,520
and it really could impact things like,

3356
02:23:09,520 --> 02:23:11,200
you know, sunlight for the garden and

3357
02:23:11,200 --> 02:23:14,080
stuff like that. Like, so I think I

3358
02:23:14,080 --> 02:23:16,319
don't like the idea of like having this

3359
02:23:16,319 --> 02:23:19,359
towering ADU in somebody's backyard. I

3360
02:23:19,359 --> 02:23:21,359
also am sensitive to the idea of like

3361
02:23:21,359 --> 02:23:24,399
windows too if it is tall. But that's

3362
02:23:24,399 --> 02:23:26,160
why I'm kind of more like maybe it's

3363
02:23:26,160 --> 02:23:29,120
just basement and one story and then you

3364
02:23:29,120 --> 02:23:32,319
kind of avoid that issue of like being

3365
02:23:32,319 --> 02:23:35,920
towering over somebody's backyard. Um if

3366
02:23:35,920 --> 02:23:41,040
we did allow windows I I I are there

3367
02:23:41,040 --> 02:23:42,640
windows that kind of are more like

3368
02:23:42,640 --> 02:23:44,319
translucent, you know, like I've seen

3369
02:23:44,319 --> 02:23:45,920
those bathroom windows that like have

3370
02:23:45,920 --> 02:23:46,960
>> Yeah, but you're still looking into

3371
02:23:46,960 --> 02:23:48,800
their backyard. Well, but I'm saying

3372
02:23:48,800 --> 02:23:50,800
like you could still allow some light

3373
02:23:50,800 --> 02:23:52,960
into the home

3374
02:23:52,960 --> 02:23:54,000
>> without cubes

3375
02:23:54,000 --> 02:23:56,080
>> those glass cubes that are like blurry.

3376
02:23:56,080 --> 02:23:56,800
You know,

3377
02:23:56,800 --> 02:23:59,120
>> I I have one in my house that I had put

3378
02:23:59,120 --> 02:24:02,240
in that is it's like geometric.

3379
02:24:02,240 --> 02:24:03,359
>> I'm just thinking of like

3380
02:24:03,359 --> 02:24:05,359
>> you can't see in it. You can't see out

3381
02:24:05,359 --> 02:24:07,040
of it, but it lets all the light in.

3382
02:24:07,040 --> 02:24:08,240
>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Something

3383
02:24:08,240 --> 02:24:09,760
there could be maybe be something that

3384
02:24:09,760 --> 02:24:11,280
would allow that. Again, I don't I don't

3385
02:24:11,280 --> 02:24:12,560
think I'm going to come up with ideas,

3386
02:24:12,560 --> 02:24:14,880
but I like the idea of ensuring people

3387
02:24:14,880 --> 02:24:16,399
have privacy and ensuring that there's

3388
02:24:16,399 --> 02:24:17,680
not things like

3389
02:24:17,680 --> 02:24:19,040
>> that's the goal.

3390
02:24:19,040 --> 02:24:20,880
>> Yeah. And

3391
02:24:20,880 --> 02:24:23,280
um I also don't like it the idea of it

3392
02:24:23,280 --> 02:24:26,000
being like as big as the primary growing

3393
02:24:26,000 --> 02:24:28,640
then it's like

3394
02:24:28,640 --> 02:24:30,800
>> do you have a percentage? Cuz currently

3395
02:24:30,800 --> 02:24:35,040
we have footprint and square footage.

3396
02:24:35,040 --> 02:24:36,479
footprint would make sense to me cuz you

3397
02:24:36,479 --> 02:24:38,160
could have a basement and a main level

3398
02:24:38,160 --> 02:24:42,000
and the foot like

3399
02:24:42,000 --> 02:24:43,600
>> I don't I guess I wouldn't care if there

3400
02:24:43,600 --> 02:24:45,280
were a basement and it were 2,000 square

3401
02:24:45,280 --> 02:24:48,000
ft. The primary dwelling were the

3402
02:24:48,000 --> 02:24:51,120
primary footprint was 2,000 ft. The

3403
02:24:51,120 --> 02:24:53,120
>> the footprint would only be 1,000 ft

3404
02:24:53,120 --> 02:24:55,040
then, right? if you had a main level.

3405
02:24:55,040 --> 02:24:57,359
And I I don't know what the number is,

3406
02:24:57,359 --> 02:24:58,160
but I

3407
02:24:58,160 --> 02:25:01,439
>> I guess I just think like

3408
02:25:01,439 --> 02:25:04,720
are we turning it into like moving from

3409
02:25:04,720 --> 02:25:07,600
like one home on the lot to essentially

3410
02:25:07,600 --> 02:25:09,359
like two really big homes on the lot,

3411
02:25:09,359 --> 02:25:10,720
you know? I don't know if I like that

3412
02:25:10,720 --> 02:25:12,319
idea.

3413
02:25:12,319 --> 02:25:12,640
>> Um

3414
02:25:12,640 --> 02:25:14,000
>> it's a really big home in here.

3415
02:25:14,000 --> 02:25:15,280
>> Like

3416
02:25:15,280 --> 02:25:17,520
>> Well, like I have a lot of space, so I

3417
02:25:17,520 --> 02:25:19,840
could build a really big ADU,

3418
02:25:19,840 --> 02:25:22,000
>> right? But you have like a 4,000t house.

3419
02:25:22,000 --> 02:25:24,319
What is a really big

3420
02:25:24,319 --> 02:25:28,160
>> unit to you? Like 1,800,900

3421
02:25:28,160 --> 02:25:28,720
square feet.

3422
02:25:28,720 --> 02:25:30,399
>> So, do you like the idea of like being

3423
02:25:30,399 --> 02:25:32,080
able to build another one the same size?

3424
02:25:32,080 --> 02:25:32,880
Is that what I'm saying?

3425
02:25:32,880 --> 02:25:35,600
>> The same size as my house. No,

3426
02:25:35,600 --> 02:25:37,840
>> that's what I'm saying. If it's 1500,

3427
02:25:37,840 --> 02:25:39,680
you would have a house my size in your

3428
02:25:39,680 --> 02:25:40,880
backyard.

3429
02:25:40,880 --> 02:25:42,880
>> Yeah, but if the lot's big enough and

3430
02:25:42,880 --> 02:25:44,160
the other home is big enough, I guess

3431
02:25:44,160 --> 02:25:46,560
I'm looking at like relative to the size

3432
02:25:46,560 --> 02:25:49,200
of the home. Um,

3433
02:25:49,200 --> 02:25:51,200
I don't know. I don't know what the

3434
02:25:51,200 --> 02:25:52,080
answer is.

3435
02:25:52,080 --> 02:25:53,600
>> I don't know why that bothers me, but

3436
02:25:53,600 --> 02:25:55,359
the idea of like you're kind of like

3437
02:25:55,359 --> 02:25:56,640
splitting your lot and just adding

3438
02:25:56,640 --> 02:25:58,479
another house the same size. It seems

3439
02:25:58,479 --> 02:26:00,479
weird that that's what this enables, you

3440
02:26:00,479 --> 02:26:00,800
know,

3441
02:26:00,800 --> 02:26:04,960
>> right? But is an ADU really another

3442
02:26:04,960 --> 02:26:08,160
8,000 foot house? It could be.

3443
02:26:08,160 --> 02:26:09,896
>> Malia, it might be helpful to know

3444
02:26:09,896 --> 02:26:11,760
[clears throat] what the what code is

3445
02:26:11,760 --> 02:26:15,120
relative to a flag lot. if you you were

3446
02:26:15,120 --> 02:26:17,439
allowed to have a flat lot normally on a

3447
02:26:17,439 --> 02:26:18,960
larger lot.

3448
02:26:18,960 --> 02:26:24,800
>> Um what size lot that would need to be?

3449
02:26:24,800 --> 02:26:28,319
>> I see flag lots everywhere.

3450
02:26:28,319 --> 02:26:29,520
>> Councelor Wlock.

3451
02:26:29,520 --> 02:26:31,840
>> Uh I just have a couple questions um

3452
02:26:31,840 --> 02:26:33,359
just to kind of help me get my bearings

3453
02:26:33,359 --> 02:26:36,960
here. What uh Molina, if you can't

3454
02:26:36,960 --> 02:26:38,240
answer these off top of your head, no

3455
02:26:38,240 --> 02:26:42,000
pressure. How many detached ADUs were

3456
02:26:42,000 --> 02:26:44,240
built in the city in the last year?

3457
02:26:44,240 --> 02:26:47,359
>> I think we had two requests for permits

3458
02:26:47,359 --> 02:26:49,680
in the last 5 years.

3459
02:26:49,680 --> 02:26:50,080
>> Okay,

3460
02:26:50,080 --> 02:26:51,920
>> that I don't know if that means they

3461
02:26:51,920 --> 02:26:55,520
were built that that encapsulates those

3462
02:26:55,520 --> 02:26:57,680
that legally requested for a permit and

3463
02:26:57,680 --> 02:26:59,280
got a license

3464
02:26:59,280 --> 02:27:00,479
>> in the last 5 years.

3465
02:27:00,479 --> 02:27:03,680
>> Yes. So, I don't know if that with ADUs,

3466
02:27:03,680 --> 02:27:05,520
you just don't know. So,

3467
02:27:05,520 --> 02:27:08,720
>> and then what how many marginal lots are

3468
02:27:08,720 --> 02:27:10,240
now

3469
02:27:10,240 --> 02:27:11,760
these are now permitted on with this

3470
02:27:11,760 --> 02:27:12,399
change.

3471
02:27:12,399 --> 02:27:14,000
>> How many more are added in?

3472
02:27:14,000 --> 02:27:14,800
>> Yeah,

3473
02:27:14,800 --> 02:27:18,240
>> I think it's like 3,900.

3474
02:27:18,240 --> 02:27:21,680
>> And what was the previous baseline?

3475
02:27:21,680 --> 02:27:22,560
>> I don't remember.

3476
02:27:22,560 --> 02:27:24,640
>> So, this is like a doubling like

3477
02:27:24,640 --> 02:27:26,960
>> Yeah, easily doubling if not more.

3478
02:27:26,960 --> 02:27:30,710
>> Okay.

3479
02:27:30,720 --> 02:27:34,000
Is there any reason to suspect that the

3480
02:27:34,000 --> 02:27:35,840
lots that are now going to allow them

3481
02:27:35,840 --> 02:27:37,600
are going to systematically have a

3482
02:27:37,600 --> 02:27:39,280
higher rate of people wanting to be old

3483
02:27:39,280 --> 02:27:41,600
adus on them?

3484
02:27:41,600 --> 02:27:45,600
>> I don't I don't know. I would say

3485
02:27:45,600 --> 02:27:47,040
it might be because there was I don't

3486
02:27:47,040 --> 02:27:51,510
know there was one that

3487
02:27:51,520 --> 02:27:53,760
» I do know in speaking with our planning

3488
02:27:53,760 --> 02:27:56,479
division I do know unlike other cities

3489
02:27:56,479 --> 02:27:59,439
if you I didn't put setbacks on this

3490
02:27:59,439 --> 02:28:04,080
comparison not setbacks impact fees we

3491
02:28:04,080 --> 02:28:06,479
do charge impact fees for external ADUs

3492
02:28:06,479 --> 02:28:09,200
in Provo there is a reduced impact fee

3493
02:28:09,200 --> 02:28:12,640
for I think only wastewater

3494
02:28:12,640 --> 02:28:14,240
Everything else is charged at the same

3495
02:28:14,240 --> 02:28:16,000
impact fee that a single family dwelling

3496
02:28:16,000 --> 02:28:18,880
is. So it equals out to about $6,000 in

3497
02:28:18,880 --> 02:28:23,600
impact fees. That's in code. That's like

3498
02:28:23,600 --> 02:28:26,319
what we charge. other cities I didn't

3499
02:28:26,319 --> 02:28:29,040
check their impact fees but I know also

3500
02:28:29,040 --> 02:28:33,040
as far as utilities and metering we also

3501
02:28:33,040 --> 02:28:35,760
in code in 1430 you have to permanently

3502
02:28:35,760 --> 02:28:39,200
connect and you have to be approved for

3503
02:28:39,200 --> 02:28:42,000
all separate utility connections and

3504
02:28:42,000 --> 02:28:45,520
laterals to the external ADO so it has

3505
02:28:45,520 --> 02:28:47,680
to be like its own separate things where

3506
02:28:47,680 --> 02:28:50,960
in all the other cities I checked um

3507
02:28:50,960 --> 02:28:52,560
where they specifically said anything

3508
02:28:52,560 --> 02:28:54,640
about that it was illegal to have your

3509
02:28:54,640 --> 02:28:56,640
own separate connections. You had to

3510
02:28:56,640 --> 02:28:58,720
come off of the primary dwelling. And

3511
02:28:58,720 --> 02:29:00,399
I'm just bringing that up cuz that is a

3512
02:29:00,399 --> 02:29:02,960
big cost difference for people to set up

3513
02:29:02,960 --> 02:29:04,479
their own utility.

3514
02:29:04,479 --> 02:29:06,399
>> So we require these ADUs to have a

3515
02:29:06,399 --> 02:29:08,240
separate hookups for every

3516
02:29:08,240 --> 02:29:10,720
>> So they're treated the same almost the

3517
02:29:10,720 --> 02:29:13,280
same as a single family dwelling unit

3518
02:29:13,280 --> 02:29:15,120
besides the fact that they need to be

3519
02:29:15,120 --> 02:29:18,790
>> so they could sell them.

3520
02:29:18,800 --> 02:29:21,040
They could parcel them off if they

3521
02:29:21,040 --> 02:29:24,880
requested to parcel their lot for like

3522
02:29:24,880 --> 02:29:26,399
three years and then decide, hey, this

3523
02:29:26,399 --> 02:29:28,160
is another sell it

3524
02:29:28,160 --> 02:29:30,160
>> split their which is why I think other

3525
02:29:30,160 --> 02:29:31,600
cities don't have the separate

3526
02:29:31,600 --> 02:29:33,040
connection because then it's always

3527
02:29:33,040 --> 02:29:35,040
connected to the main dwelling. So then

3528
02:29:35,040 --> 02:29:36,880
I think Gary's got a good point that we

3529
02:29:36,880 --> 02:29:39,200
need to look at flag lot requirements

3530
02:29:39,200 --> 02:29:41,120
because if they could eventually be sold

3531
02:29:41,120 --> 02:29:44,240
off five years, 20 years, 50 years from

3532
02:29:44,240 --> 02:29:46,240
now, they probably need to have the

3533
02:29:46,240 --> 02:29:47,920
same.

3534
02:29:47,920 --> 02:29:49,520
>> Well, could they be sold? I mean,

3535
02:29:49,520 --> 02:29:52,000
wouldn't they have to go

3536
02:29:52,000 --> 02:29:57,590
>> to get here?

3537
02:29:57,600 --> 02:29:59,439
» There really aren't any different flag

3538
02:29:59,439 --> 02:30:02,160
requirements than the zone that the flag

3539
02:30:02,160 --> 02:30:04,720
lot is in. All the same zoning

3540
02:30:04,720 --> 02:30:07,280
requirements would apply. In another

3541
02:30:07,280 --> 02:30:10,160
jurisdiction I worked for, the detached

3542
02:30:10,160 --> 02:30:13,200
ADU added separate laterals. A divorce

3543
02:30:13,200 --> 02:30:15,200
occurred and they divided them off and

3544
02:30:15,200 --> 02:30:18,160
sold them as two separate units. no

3545
02:30:18,160 --> 02:30:21,439
>> to split assets. That triggered a zoning

3546
02:30:21,439 --> 02:30:23,439
problem that we spent years fighting

3547
02:30:23,439 --> 02:30:26,800
over because judge gave a divorce decree

3548
02:30:26,800 --> 02:30:29,439
saying this is okay and then city zoning

3549
02:30:29,439 --> 02:30:32,160
saying no this is illegal. So, I've

3550
02:30:32,160 --> 02:30:34,720
always hated that separate lateral

3551
02:30:34,720 --> 02:30:36,800
requirement in our ordinance because it

3552
02:30:36,800 --> 02:30:38,960
teases the ball up for somebody to sell

3553
02:30:38,960 --> 02:30:41,920
it off separately, legally or illegally.

3554
02:30:41,920 --> 02:30:43,840
And many times it happens illegally

3555
02:30:43,840 --> 02:30:45,520
because the recorder's office at the

3556
02:30:45,520 --> 02:30:47,040
county will record whatever deeds you

3557
02:30:47,040 --> 02:30:49,200
bring to them.

3558
02:30:49,200 --> 02:30:51,200
on the Billy height thing. If we're

3559
02:30:51,200 --> 02:30:53,600
trying to

3560
02:30:53,600 --> 02:30:55,040
keep a certain amount of open space and

3561
02:30:55,040 --> 02:30:57,359
green space on the lot and we have a lot

3562
02:30:57,359 --> 02:30:59,120
coverage requirement that R1's not zone

3563
02:30:59,120 --> 02:31:00,960
says you can't cover more than 40% of

3564
02:31:00,960 --> 02:31:03,600
the lot of buildings to be able to build

3565
02:31:03,600 --> 02:31:05,439
over the garage really helps keep that

3566
02:31:05,439 --> 02:31:06,960
green space otherwise you're going to

3567
02:31:06,960 --> 02:31:08,319
have separate parking spaces and a

3568
02:31:08,319 --> 02:31:10,640
separate unit. But I agree with what

3569
02:31:10,640 --> 02:31:13,120
you've also said about

3570
02:31:13,120 --> 02:31:15,120
it feels

3571
02:31:15,120 --> 02:31:17,359
doesn't feel right to have the ADU

3572
02:31:17,359 --> 02:31:20,560
detect height as the house. The height

3573
02:31:20,560 --> 02:31:22,800
of the house in our zone can be 35 ft.

3574
02:31:22,800 --> 02:31:24,479
Perhaps we should say the maximum height

3575
02:31:24,479 --> 02:31:28,160
for the detached unit should be 25 or 20

3576
02:31:28,160 --> 02:31:30,960
something less because that does feel

3577
02:31:30,960 --> 02:31:33,120
overwhelming for the detach to be the

3578
02:31:33,120 --> 02:31:35,840
same height as the main house. So, I

3579
02:31:35,840 --> 02:31:36,960
think there's some things like that that

3580
02:31:36,960 --> 02:31:40,000
we can work with your staff on that

3581
02:31:40,000 --> 02:31:40,720
can [clears throat] kind of address

3582
02:31:40,720 --> 02:31:42,240
these things you're raising.

3583
02:31:42,240 --> 02:31:43,760
>> How about that's very helpful. How about

3584
02:31:43,760 --> 02:31:46,960
the issue of privacy?

3585
02:31:46,960 --> 02:31:48,720
>> Any thoughts on that?

3586
02:31:48,720 --> 02:31:50,960
>> Um, if we help to limit that height, I

3587
02:31:50,960 --> 02:31:54,720
think that starts to address it. Um, why

3588
02:31:54,720 --> 02:31:57,920
I would hesitate on windows and window

3589
02:31:57,920 --> 02:32:00,560
placement is it sure it sure makes the

3590
02:32:00,560 --> 02:32:02,800
ADU more livable

3591
02:32:02,800 --> 02:32:04,880
when it's got the window space on it. It

3592
02:32:04,880 --> 02:32:06,880
brings natural light in. It adds a

3593
02:32:06,880 --> 02:32:09,200
window to a bedroom where now this area

3594
02:32:09,200 --> 02:32:10,399
can be a bedroom because there's a

3595
02:32:10,399 --> 02:32:12,160
window where it couldn't if I can't have

3596
02:32:12,160 --> 02:32:14,080
a window there. So, it can be very

3597
02:32:14,080 --> 02:32:16,880
limiting to to say that. But I'm hoping

3598
02:32:16,880 --> 02:32:18,800
that by limiting the building height, we

3599
02:32:18,800 --> 02:32:21,359
can help to lessen that impact your

3600
02:32:21,359 --> 02:32:22,960
fearing.

3601
02:32:22,960 --> 02:32:25,120
>> I think definitely based on these other

3602
02:32:25,120 --> 02:32:26,560
cities having read through all their

3603
02:32:26,560 --> 02:32:28,960
code, we could come up with something I

3604
02:32:28,960 --> 02:32:32,399
could work with Bill based on if you're

3605
02:32:32,399 --> 02:32:34,399
certain setbacks and certain heights. I

3606
02:32:34,399 --> 02:32:36,720
know. I think it was Sandy. They have

3607
02:32:36,720 --> 02:32:38,479
like

3608
02:32:38,479 --> 02:32:40,640
Let's not do what Sandy does. They like

3609
02:32:40,640 --> 02:32:42,720
pages of charts of how height it can be

3610
02:32:42,720 --> 02:32:44,640
based on setbacks and where it is on the

3611
02:32:44,640 --> 02:32:49,040
yard. But we can do that. But um but

3612
02:32:49,040 --> 02:32:51,359
they have a lot of different kind of if

3613
02:32:51,359 --> 02:32:54,000
it's this close to the sidey yard, it

3614
02:32:54,000 --> 02:32:57,280
can be 17 feet. If it's this close, it

3615
02:32:57,280 --> 02:33:00,319
can be like 15. Like it's just changes

3616
02:33:00,319 --> 02:33:02,080
based on you have to meet minimum

3617
02:33:02,080 --> 02:33:03,520
setbacks. And then if it's right at the

3618
02:33:03,520 --> 02:33:05,680
line, you get more height the further

3619
02:33:05,680 --> 02:33:08,720
away you are from your neighbors.

3620
02:33:08,720 --> 02:33:12,720
>> Well, I would be with you. The simpler

3621
02:33:12,720 --> 02:33:14,240
terms of what we

3622
02:33:14,240 --> 02:33:15,840
>> know. A couple years ago, we talked

3623
02:33:15,840 --> 02:33:19,520
about the require the specific separate

3624
02:33:19,520 --> 02:33:21,600
lateral that public works wanted. It was

3625
02:33:21,600 --> 02:33:22,960
public works, right?

3626
02:33:22,960 --> 02:33:26,560
>> Yes. So, what was their reason then? And

3627
02:33:26,560 --> 02:33:29,520
has it changed?

3628
02:33:29,520 --> 02:33:32,319
>> Yeah, they're not in the room right now.

3629
02:33:32,319 --> 02:33:34,160
The reason that was stated years ago and

3630
02:33:34,160 --> 02:33:36,560
that was under Dave Der and Gary Calder

3631
02:33:36,560 --> 02:33:38,640
was because then there wouldn't be

3632
02:33:38,640 --> 02:33:40,640
fights over if there's a clog in the

3633
02:33:40,640 --> 02:33:43,040
line who's responsible. But that never

3634
02:33:43,040 --> 02:33:44,720
made sense to me because it's owner

3635
02:33:44,720 --> 02:33:46,560
occupied

3636
02:33:46,560 --> 02:33:48,880
is responsible regardless.

3637
02:33:48,880 --> 02:33:53,910
>> So [laughter]

3638
02:33:53,920 --> 02:33:56,319
yeah,

3639
02:33:56,319 --> 02:33:59,200
>> you mentioned flag lots. So, like

3640
02:33:59,200 --> 02:34:01,200
somebody couldn't a flight lot has to

3641
02:34:01,200 --> 02:34:03,040
have a driveway, but couldn't somebody

3642
02:34:03,040 --> 02:34:05,200
just build a detached ADU and not have a

3643
02:34:05,200 --> 02:34:06,399
driveway? Like, yes,

3644
02:34:06,399 --> 02:34:08,399
>> people walk to to the backyard

3645
02:34:08,399 --> 02:34:11,200
>> as long as you have parking spots.

3646
02:34:11,200 --> 02:34:13,200
>> But, but Bill was saying our ADUs would

3647
02:34:13,200 --> 02:34:17,920
be subject to the flag lot zoning.

3648
02:34:17,920 --> 02:34:19,359
>> All those regulations would apply the

3649
02:34:19,359 --> 02:34:21,359
same to a flag lot as it would to the

3650
02:34:21,359 --> 02:34:24,080
other lots in that zone. There setback

3651
02:34:24,080 --> 02:34:25,120
requirements. There's building

3652
02:34:25,120 --> 02:34:27,200
requirements apply perhaps. Maybe what

3653
02:34:27,200 --> 02:34:29,040
you're thinking is the flat line already

3654
02:34:29,040 --> 02:34:31,200
puts a home behind other homes and this

3655
02:34:31,200 --> 02:34:32,560
would add another home behind other

3656
02:34:32,560 --> 02:34:34,560
homes. Is that what you're thinking?

3657
02:34:34,560 --> 02:34:37,439
>> No. Well, I was just thinking like I

3658
02:34:37,439 --> 02:34:39,840
want people to be able to build an ADU

3659
02:34:39,840 --> 02:34:41,680
without having to have like a driveway

3660
02:34:41,680 --> 02:34:42,960
in case

3661
02:34:42,960 --> 02:34:44,160
>> you need a separate unit.

3662
02:34:44,160 --> 02:34:44,640
>> Yeah.

3663
02:34:44,640 --> 02:34:45,920
>> I don't think they would have to.

3664
02:34:45,920 --> 02:34:50,710
>> Okay.

3665
02:34:50,720 --> 02:34:51,760
» Wet box.

3666
02:34:51,760 --> 02:34:53,120
>> I just have a few other questions here.

3667
02:34:53,120 --> 02:34:56,960
Do do we have a minimum size of adus?

3668
02:34:56,960 --> 02:34:58,160
>> Yes.

3669
02:34:58,160 --> 02:35:01,520
>> At least 200 ft. I mean say we have it

3670
02:35:01,520 --> 02:35:03,200
>> and that would still be that would still

3671
02:35:03,200 --> 02:35:04,319
be applicable. Correct.

3672
02:35:04,319 --> 02:35:04,640
>> Yeah.

3673
02:35:04,640 --> 02:35:06,880
>> Okay. And then

3674
02:35:06,880 --> 02:35:08,319
>> do we and this is maybe a Brian

3675
02:35:08,319 --> 02:35:10,720
question. Do we have

3676
02:35:10,720 --> 02:35:12,720
what is what is within our authority to

3677
02:35:12,720 --> 02:35:15,200
for ownership definition?

3678
02:35:15,200 --> 02:35:17,680
The reason why I ask is because one of

3679
02:35:17,680 --> 02:35:19,920
the things that I think came up at least

3680
02:35:19,920 --> 02:35:21,200
when I've been talking to constituents

3681
02:35:21,200 --> 02:35:23,439
is like this duplex loophole they call

3682
02:35:23,439 --> 02:35:26,319
it where you put someone on the title

3683
02:35:26,319 --> 02:35:28,080
>> and then it becomes effective.

3684
02:35:28,080 --> 02:35:29,920
>> That's when we made a law about this

3685
02:35:29,920 --> 02:35:32,240
talked about scam transactions. Yeah, I

3686
02:35:32,240 --> 02:35:36,080
was going to say we we've that's been

3687
02:35:36,080 --> 02:35:38,560
something that we've worked with over

3688
02:35:38,560 --> 02:35:40,560
and over again through time. I've

3689
02:35:40,560 --> 02:35:42,080
actually made some more tweaks when I

3690
02:35:42,080 --> 02:35:44,399
did the definition section just last

3691
02:35:44,399 --> 02:35:46,319
week [laughter] that I don't know if

3692
02:35:46,319 --> 02:35:50,240
Aaron reviewed yet. Um that's a

3693
02:35:50,240 --> 02:35:51,680
something we constantly struggle with.

3694
02:35:51,680 --> 02:35:55,520
It's although to be to be clear, I guess

3695
02:35:55,520 --> 02:36:00,080
it's not that hard to write the law.

3696
02:36:00,080 --> 02:36:02,720
It's hard to enforce the law because

3697
02:36:02,720 --> 02:36:04,240
then you because you find yourself in

3698
02:36:04,240 --> 02:36:06,640
these situations where you're demanding,

3699
02:36:06,640 --> 02:36:08,800
you know, their tax returns and the and

3700
02:36:08,800 --> 02:36:10,800
the membership the LLC membership

3701
02:36:10,800 --> 02:36:13,920
records and stuff in order to try to to

3702
02:36:13,920 --> 02:36:16,319
try to prevent that. But right now the

3703
02:36:16,319 --> 02:36:22,080
rule is if the that in an ADU situation

3704
02:36:22,080 --> 02:36:25,280
that either the ADU or the main home

3705
02:36:25,280 --> 02:36:27,280
must be owner occupied and owner

3706
02:36:27,280 --> 02:36:32,880
occupied means that the persons on that

3707
02:36:32,880 --> 02:36:35,200
all of the persons on title live in the

3708
02:36:35,200 --> 02:36:38,000
home or if it's held by an LLC that all

3709
02:36:38,000 --> 02:36:39,920
of the members of the LLC live in the

3710
02:36:39,920 --> 02:36:40,319
home.

3711
02:36:40,319 --> 02:36:43,439
>> Okay, makes a lot of sense.

3712
02:36:43,439 --> 02:36:45,280
Any

3713
02:36:45,280 --> 02:36:47,520
other thoughts to give Malia? So

3714
02:36:47,520 --> 02:36:48,880
Whipple?

3715
02:36:48,880 --> 02:36:49,760
>> Yeah.

3716
02:36:49,760 --> 02:36:52,319
>> Um

3717
02:36:52,319 --> 02:36:56,160
I I appreciate the desire to protect the

3718
02:36:56,160 --> 02:36:59,520
private backyards of existing neighbors.

3719
02:36:59,520 --> 02:37:01,120
Again, thinking about the way my

3720
02:37:01,120 --> 02:37:03,040
property is situated, the backyard that

3721
02:37:03,040 --> 02:37:04,880
I look over is a parking lot for a

3722
02:37:04,880 --> 02:37:07,200
duplex,

3723
02:37:07,200 --> 02:37:08,880
as is the one next to it and and

3724
02:37:08,880 --> 02:37:10,479
everything, right? like it wouldn't make

3725
02:37:10,479 --> 02:37:13,439
sense to restrict a view of the

3726
02:37:13,439 --> 02:37:14,960
mountains

3727
02:37:14,960 --> 02:37:17,760
from a garage apartment in my place

3728
02:37:17,760 --> 02:37:19,600
because there's nobody's privacy that

3729
02:37:19,600 --> 02:37:21,520
you would be violating.

3730
02:37:21,520 --> 02:37:24,880
Um, just thinking about how a good

3731
02:37:24,880 --> 02:37:26,560
intention thing could actually end up

3732
02:37:26,560 --> 02:37:28,720
being a very negative thing in some

3733
02:37:28,720 --> 02:37:29,520
circumstances.

3734
02:37:29,520 --> 02:37:31,040
>> Yeah. But how would you allow it for you

3735
02:37:31,040 --> 02:37:32,479
and not everybody else?

3736
02:37:32,479 --> 02:37:33,840
>> Well, I think we actually could do that

3737
02:37:33,840 --> 02:37:35,040
in some of the ways that we do

3738
02:37:35,040 --> 02:37:37,520
transitional buffer areas. It just is

3739
02:37:37,520 --> 02:37:42,560
more complicated to draft. But yeah, it can be instead of the rule being no

3740
02:37:42,560 --> 02:37:44,000
windows that overlook the adjoining

3741
02:37:44,000 --> 02:37:46,080
property, it's no windows that overlook

3742
02:37:46,080 --> 02:37:47,359
the adjoining property if it's

3743
02:37:47,359 --> 02:37:49,280
residential with a house inside so many

3744
02:37:49,280 --> 02:37:50,880
feet, right? You just have to think

3745
02:37:50,880 --> 02:37:51,680
through

3746
02:37:51,680 --> 02:37:52,240
>> Yeah.

3747
02:37:52,240 --> 02:37:53,359
>> how to define it.

3748
02:37:53,359 --> 02:37:55,520
>> So careful thinking on that is is

3749
02:37:55,520 --> 02:37:59,439
useful. Um, what I've heard about this

3750
02:37:59,439 --> 02:38:04,399
is we already have a lot of of hurdles

3751
02:38:04,399 --> 02:38:07,359
to building an external ADU in our city,

3752
02:38:07,359 --> 02:38:09,120
right? It's very very expensive to do

3753
02:38:09,120 --> 02:38:11,120
that with our permitting, with the

3754
02:38:11,120 --> 02:38:13,520
infrastructure that we have to put in.

3755
02:38:13,520 --> 02:38:17,280
Um, and because it is so ownorous to do

3756
02:38:17,280 --> 02:38:19,040
this, we've had almost no people

3757
02:38:19,040 --> 02:38:21,920
applying to do external AD use even

3758
02:38:21,920 --> 02:38:25,600
though it's been allowed for some years.

3759
02:38:25,600 --> 02:38:27,120
And

3760
02:38:27,120 --> 02:38:30,720
I don't know that we need to

3761
02:38:30,720 --> 02:38:33,760
create more barriers to this. I it it

3762
02:38:33,760 --> 02:38:35,120
just doesn't sound like a real problem

3763
02:38:35,120 --> 02:38:37,600
that we have. Why do we need to make it

3764
02:38:37,600 --> 02:38:39,200
even harder if it's already almost

3765
02:38:39,200 --> 02:38:40,800
impossible?

3766
02:38:40,800 --> 02:38:44,960
Um in any case, it seems that

3767
02:38:44,960 --> 02:38:47,120
the thought of erecting more barriers is

3768
02:38:47,120 --> 02:38:49,680
certainly contrary to what the state

3769
02:38:49,680 --> 02:38:53,200
legislature is is doing in imposing this

3770
02:38:53,200 --> 02:38:55,600
on us, right? and and removing this

3771
02:38:55,600 --> 02:38:59,439
little bit of local control. Um,

3772
02:38:59,439 --> 02:39:02,399
so I I don't know how that plays out

3773
02:39:02,399 --> 02:39:05,040
politically in this struggle that we

3774
02:39:05,040 --> 02:39:08,399
have between city and and state control.

3775
02:39:08,399 --> 02:39:12,000
But I am anxious about that.

3776
02:39:12,000 --> 02:39:15,200
The other thing is that

3777
02:39:15,200 --> 02:39:17,120
honestly for a lot of these these

3778
02:39:17,120 --> 02:39:18,720
properties that are newly allowing

3779
02:39:18,720 --> 02:39:22,080
external ADUs, many of those already

3780
02:39:22,080 --> 02:39:24,240
have large existing houses that could

3781
02:39:24,240 --> 02:39:26,800
easily have internal ADUs and they're

3782
02:39:26,800 --> 02:39:28,800
not allowed to have that with this law

3783
02:39:28,800 --> 02:39:31,439
because the law just says external. I

3784
02:39:31,439 --> 02:39:33,359
think it would make sense to say that

3785
02:39:33,359 --> 02:39:34,880
any place that you would have this

3786
02:39:34,880 --> 02:39:36,720
external ADU under state law, you should

3787
02:39:36,720 --> 02:39:38,720
be able to have an internal one because

3788
02:39:38,720 --> 02:39:41,760
then you are not running into those

3789
02:39:41,760 --> 02:39:44,240
overlooking privacy concerns. You're not

3790
02:39:44,240 --> 02:39:46,240
running into the problems with taking up

3791
02:39:46,240 --> 02:39:48,399
more of the lot coverage and everything

3792
02:39:48,399 --> 02:39:50,640
else, right? Like you you've already got

3793
02:39:50,640 --> 02:39:52,399
the structure there. And if we've got

3794
02:39:52,399 --> 02:39:55,600
the necessary parking and everything,

3795
02:39:55,600 --> 02:39:57,120
that seems like the the obvious

3796
02:39:57,120 --> 02:40:00,399
solution. So, I don't understand why we

3797
02:40:00,399 --> 02:40:03,040
aren't looking at changing our code to

3798
02:40:03,040 --> 02:40:05,120
say any of these places where you can

3799
02:40:05,120 --> 02:40:09,439
have the external ADU under SP 284. You

3800
02:40:09,439 --> 02:40:11,520
could also have an internal one so long

3801
02:40:11,520 --> 02:40:13,040
as you're meeting our other city

3802
02:40:13,040 --> 02:40:14,560
requirements.

3803
02:40:14,560 --> 02:40:17,120
Um and we have had some inquiries from

3804
02:40:17,120 --> 02:40:19,359
some of these areas about doing internal

3805
02:40:19,359 --> 02:40:21,359
ADUs

3806
02:40:21,359 --> 02:40:24,399
and but even those are such a small

3807
02:40:24,399 --> 02:40:27,359
portion of the properties that are

3808
02:40:27,359 --> 02:40:29,359
asking for it that I don't think the the

3809
02:40:29,359 --> 02:40:32,319
huge I don't think there's a huge impact

3810
02:40:32,319 --> 02:40:37,760
but that would actually help some people

3811
02:40:37,760 --> 02:40:39,760
and I see my job here on the city

3812
02:40:39,760 --> 02:40:42,560
council is to help the people in my

3813
02:40:42,560 --> 02:40:47,359
city. So why would we not consider

3814
02:40:47,359 --> 02:40:49,280
something that's more expensive and

3815
02:40:49,280 --> 02:40:51,120
actually benefits the residents in that

3816
02:40:51,120 --> 02:40:55,120
way instead of of adding additional

3817
02:40:55,120 --> 02:41:01,110
restrictions

3818
02:41:01,120 --> 02:41:03,439
because I think wouldn't we rather some

3819
02:41:03,439 --> 02:41:05,359
of these places just do the internal one

3820
02:41:05,359 --> 02:41:07,840
then build a whole another structure

3821
02:41:07,840 --> 02:41:09,680
that that has those other negative

3822
02:41:09,680 --> 02:41:13,030
impacts.

3823
02:41:13,040 --> 02:41:14,880
I definitely don't feel that way. I we

3824
02:41:14,880 --> 02:41:16,240
have a shortage of four plusbedroom

3825
02:41:16,240 --> 02:41:17,439
homes and that's my biggest thing

3826
02:41:17,439 --> 02:41:19,200
against internal it is we have we we

3827
02:41:19,200 --> 02:41:21,040
have a limited housing stock and it

3828
02:41:21,040 --> 02:41:22,640
becomes just two smaller homes where we

3829
02:41:22,640 --> 02:41:24,160
lose a bigger [clears throat] home

3830
02:41:24,160 --> 02:41:27,280
>> and we lose families and move up homes

3831
02:41:27,280 --> 02:41:29,280
and

3832
02:41:29,280 --> 02:41:32,560
we lose the higher median income and

3833
02:41:32,560 --> 02:41:34,640
>> but see with the makeup of our city that

3834
02:41:34,640 --> 02:41:36,319
doesn't make sense to me. But with this,

3835
02:41:36,319 --> 02:41:37,920
what you would have is that that large

3836
02:41:37,920 --> 02:41:40,960
house that's also in a large lot. And so

3837
02:41:40,960 --> 02:41:43,200
what they end up doing is losing their

3838
02:41:43,200 --> 02:41:44,560
backyard.

3839
02:41:44,560 --> 02:41:45,520
>> Yeah. I I disagree.

3840
02:41:45,520 --> 02:41:47,280
>> And so then you still have this

3841
02:41:47,280 --> 02:41:49,760
disincentive for this large family. Do

3842
02:41:49,760 --> 02:41:51,359
you see what I mean? Like I I don't see

3843
02:41:51,359 --> 02:41:55,110
it as a

3844
02:41:55,120 --> 02:41:57,439
» we would need to replay

3845
02:41:57,439 --> 02:41:59,680
every ADU discussion we had.

3846
02:41:59,680 --> 02:42:00,800
>> Go back to listen to that.

3847
02:42:00,800 --> 02:42:02,479
>> I I just see I just see that

3848
02:42:02,479 --> 02:42:04,800
differently. Uh you're I think what

3849
02:42:04,800 --> 02:42:09,520
you're saying is rational. Uh I don't

3850
02:42:09,520 --> 02:42:10,880
think it's reasonable.

3851
02:42:10,880 --> 02:42:12,000
>> Wait, what's the difference between

3852
02:42:12,000 --> 02:42:13,760
rational and reasonable?

3853
02:42:13,760 --> 02:42:16,000
>> Rational is yes, you can make a case for

3854
02:42:16,000 --> 02:42:19,040
that. Reasonable means we can see that

3855
02:42:19,040 --> 02:42:20,800
differently in terms of how it affects

3856
02:42:20,800 --> 02:42:23,439
neighborhoods, how it affects housing

3857
02:42:23,439 --> 02:42:24,319
stock,

3858
02:42:24,319 --> 02:42:26,720
>> what I yeah, what I think is best.

3859
02:42:26,720 --> 02:42:28,000
>> It makes sense that we can see that

3860
02:42:28,000 --> 02:42:29,600
differently. That's reasonable to me.

3861
02:42:29,600 --> 02:42:32,800
>> Okay. So, um, we went through this in

3862
02:42:32,800 --> 02:42:34,960
great detail. I haven't been on the

3863
02:42:34,960 --> 02:42:37,920
council a long time, but I PST

3864
02:42:37,920 --> 02:42:39,920
to show that it was it was it was an

3865
02:42:39,920 --> 02:42:42,240
exhaustive discussion. So, having to

3866
02:42:42,240 --> 02:42:44,800
take that offline, but uh I I don't see

3867
02:42:44,800 --> 02:42:46,880
that any different. Now, the stage is

3868
02:42:46,880 --> 02:42:48,782
overreaching. I think again,

3869
02:42:48,782 --> 02:42:49,760
[clears throat] you can see that

3870
02:42:49,760 --> 02:42:56,160
differently. Um, and telling us how to run the city and and we we will

3871
02:42:56,160 --> 02:42:58,240
we'll we'll figure that out. So, I think

3872
02:42:58,240 --> 02:43:01,359
us figuring out some meaningful things

3873
02:43:01,359 --> 02:43:03,520
uh in terms of what those amendments

3874
02:43:03,520 --> 02:43:08,479
should be, I think that makes sense. I'm not of the opinion that we need to

3875
02:43:08,479 --> 02:43:11,600
rewrite and to make the kind of changes

3876
02:43:11,600 --> 02:43:18,950
that you're talking about.

3877
02:43:18,960 --> 02:43:20,080
» Councelor Whit,

3878
02:43:20,080 --> 02:43:23,920
>> I think um one one point of curiosity I

3879
02:43:23,920 --> 02:43:27,280
just have on this on this topic is uh I

3880
02:43:27,280 --> 02:43:30,080
mean the data is pretty strong in my

3881
02:43:30,080 --> 02:43:31,520
opinion that people are not going to do

3882
02:43:31,520 --> 02:43:33,359
this.

3883
02:43:33,359 --> 02:43:35,200
uh is that what we want or do we want to

3884
02:43:35,200 --> 02:43:38,240
try to make it actually more likely that

3885
02:43:38,240 --> 02:43:39,600
people will do this but in a way that we

3886
02:43:39,600 --> 02:43:41,439
want it to happen or is it more just

3887
02:43:41,439 --> 02:43:42,560
like we're kind of just trying to check

3888
02:43:42,560 --> 02:43:44,960
the box with the state and see what

3889
02:43:44,960 --> 02:43:47,279
happens cuz I think there's a reasonable

3890
02:43:47,279 --> 02:43:49,520
debate to be had of the state clearly

3891
02:43:49,520 --> 02:43:51,040
again I actually agree with you they

3892
02:43:51,040 --> 02:43:53,600
overreached but there's clearly a policy

3893
02:43:53,600 --> 02:43:55,279
reason why they're doing this and that's

3894
02:43:55,279 --> 02:43:56,960
because we have a housing affordability

3895
02:43:56,960 --> 02:43:59,439
crisis in the city or sorry in the state

3896
02:43:59,439 --> 02:44:02,479
and the city and um you know I think

3897
02:44:02,479 --> 02:44:03,760
there's I think there's some debate

3898
02:44:03,760 --> 02:44:06,000
about the the impact the ADUs have on

3899
02:44:06,000 --> 02:44:07,760
addressing that, but there's enough

3900
02:44:07,760 --> 02:44:09,040
people in the state legislature who are

3901
02:44:09,040 --> 02:44:10,960
convinced that it helps or at least

3902
02:44:10,960 --> 02:44:12,319
provides options for folks to try to

3903
02:44:12,319 --> 02:44:14,640
afford their homes. And so the question

3904
02:44:14,640 --> 02:44:17,840
in my mind is do we do we sort of take

3905
02:44:17,840 --> 02:44:19,680
the policy intent from the state and try

3906
02:44:19,680 --> 02:44:21,439
to say okay let's let's actually follow

3907
02:44:21,439 --> 02:44:22,800
their policy intent but in a way that

3908
02:44:22,800 --> 02:44:24,640
works for Provo or do we just kind of

3909
02:44:24,640 --> 02:44:27,120
say hey we're going to put up barriers

3910
02:44:27,120 --> 02:44:28,640
because we think you overreached and

3911
02:44:28,640 --> 02:44:30,800
then see how that game plays out over a

3912
02:44:30,800 --> 02:44:32,720
few more legislative sections.

3913
02:44:32,720 --> 02:44:34,560
>> Yeah, I actually think we're doing that.

3914
02:44:34,560 --> 02:44:37,760
I think we're we're taking their

3915
02:44:37,760 --> 02:44:39,600
legislation, which they have every right

3916
02:44:39,600 --> 02:44:41,760
to do, and making sure it works for

3917
02:44:41,760 --> 02:44:45,359
Provo. Um, I don't feel the need to do

3918
02:44:45,359 --> 02:44:46,880
any more than that. I want to make sure

3919
02:44:46,880 --> 02:44:48,960
it doesn't do damage to Protool.

3920
02:44:48,960 --> 02:44:52,640
>> And so that's why he requirements and it

3921
02:44:52,640 --> 02:44:54,720
wasn't Windows. I said Windows, but it's

3922
02:44:54,720 --> 02:44:57,279
just more privacy to make sure privacy.

3923
02:44:57,279 --> 02:44:59,279
>> Yeah. Need for privacy. And we may have

3924
02:44:59,279 --> 02:45:01,200
a lot of this already in in place. So

3925
02:45:01,200 --> 02:45:03,040
maybe not need maybe there isn't much

3926
02:45:03,040 --> 02:45:04,880
that needs to go into it. That would be

3927
02:45:04,880 --> 02:45:06,640
my interest.

3928
02:45:06,640 --> 02:45:09,680
>> And we have staff that has experience

3929
02:45:09,680 --> 02:45:11,120
with this kind of a thing that I think

3930
02:45:11,120 --> 02:45:13,120
we need to put guard rails up for

3931
02:45:13,120 --> 02:45:16,240
because he has a lot of good points and

3932
02:45:16,240 --> 02:45:19,680
divorce can get really messy and this is

3933
02:45:19,680 --> 02:45:22,160
a huge asset that they try to split up

3934
02:45:22,160 --> 02:45:23,600
and I think we need to guard against

3935
02:45:23,600 --> 02:45:24,960
that as well.

3936
02:45:24,960 --> 02:45:26,479
>> I actually really love Bill's

3937
02:45:26,479 --> 02:45:28,560
suggestions. I'm fully supportive of

3938
02:45:28,560 --> 02:45:30,000
them. I think they make a lot of sense.

3939
02:45:30,000 --> 02:45:32,160
But I anyway, yeah, I I actually think

3940
02:45:32,160 --> 02:45:34,080
like I mean we could debate this, but I

3941
02:45:34,080 --> 02:45:35,920
think if you actually remove several

3942
02:45:35,920 --> 02:45:37,200
hookup requirements, you'll probably get

3943
02:45:37,200 --> 02:45:39,600
more ADUs, but you also address the

3944
02:45:39,600 --> 02:45:41,920
issues that Bill is addressing, which I

3945
02:45:41,920 --> 02:45:43,600
think are real, too. So for me, I would

3946
02:45:43,600 --> 02:45:45,760
say like the removing a sec separate

3947
02:45:45,760 --> 02:45:47,359
hookup requirements to me that probably

3948
02:45:47,359 --> 02:45:49,040
increase the supply. More people would

3949
02:45:49,040 --> 02:45:50,800
take this option because I imagine

3950
02:45:50,800 --> 02:45:52,640
that's part of the cost prohibitive

3951
02:45:52,640 --> 02:45:53,760
nature of the equation.

3952
02:45:53,760 --> 02:45:55,760
>> Yeah. if the pipe's big enough to

3953
02:45:55,760 --> 02:45:58,000
support both houses that's coming off of

3954
02:45:58,000 --> 02:45:59,120
the lateral. Right. Yeah.

3955
02:45:59,120 --> 02:46:01,279
>> Because a lot of it

3956
02:46:01,279 --> 02:46:03,200
>> we'd have to get back with public works

3957
02:46:03,200 --> 02:46:05,760
to define if they still now that Dave

3958
02:46:05,760 --> 02:46:08,399
Decker's gone. I think if that's still a

3959
02:46:08,399 --> 02:46:10,800
policy that they hold really strong too

3960
02:46:10,800 --> 02:46:12,640
and if they do why

3961
02:46:12,640 --> 02:46:15,520
>> and if they're not old pipes,

3962
02:46:15,520 --> 02:46:16,960
>> you know, maybe that's the other reason

3963
02:46:16,960 --> 02:46:19,279
is because they need the pipes redone

3964
02:46:19,279 --> 02:46:21,840
and this is a way for them to do that. I

3965
02:46:21,840 --> 02:46:23,600
mean, we all need to we we need to

3966
02:46:23,600 --> 02:46:27,520
respect that reason as well.

3967
02:46:27,520 --> 02:46:28,880
>> Councelor Hoben,

3968
02:46:28,880 --> 02:46:30,560
>> I think we just need to give staff a

3969
02:46:30,560 --> 02:46:32,319
list. So, I mean,

3970
02:46:32,319 --> 02:46:33,200
>> can you get a list?

3971
02:46:33,200 --> 02:46:34,720
>> I've been writing a list. I was going to

3972
02:46:34,720 --> 02:46:37,120
confirm before we

3973
02:46:37,120 --> 02:46:37,760
moved on.

3974
02:46:37,760 --> 02:46:39,600
>> All right. Confirm your list.

3975
02:46:39,600 --> 02:46:42,880
>> Okay. One is the discussion around

3976
02:46:42,880 --> 02:46:44,960
height and window. Mainly the

3977
02:46:44,960 --> 02:46:48,080
overarching is privacy. And by fixing

3978
02:46:48,080 --> 02:46:50,000
privacy issues by looking at setbacks,

3979
02:46:50,000 --> 02:46:51,680
whether that overlooks residential,

3980
02:46:51,680 --> 02:46:55,520
single other homes, we can I've already

3981
02:46:55,520 --> 02:46:57,439
started thinking about other cities that

3982
02:46:57,439 --> 02:47:00,720
have I know I think it's St. George has

3983
02:47:00,720 --> 02:47:02,319
some that I like that we can try and

3984
02:47:02,319 --> 02:47:02,720
pull from.

3985
02:47:02,720 --> 02:47:04,319
>> I think Brian's suggestion was good that

3986
02:47:04,319 --> 02:47:06,160
we can you know something about like

3987
02:47:06,160 --> 02:47:08,319
distance or based on what you're looking

3988
02:47:08,319 --> 02:47:09,680
over and all that.

3989
02:47:09,680 --> 02:47:13,359
>> Okay. Um second is the percentage of the

3990
02:47:13,359 --> 02:47:14,800
parcel coverage. So I know in

3991
02:47:14,800 --> 02:47:17,600
residential zones it's you can't cover

3992
02:47:17,600 --> 02:47:19,600
more than 40% but we can look at that

3993
02:47:19,600 --> 02:47:21,120
cuz I know some of these are not

3994
02:47:21,120 --> 02:47:23,359
necessarily residential zones. So we can

3995
02:47:23,359 --> 02:47:25,279
just make sure that maybe we want to

3996
02:47:25,279 --> 02:47:27,120
keep it 40 across and just say if it's

3997
02:47:27,120 --> 02:47:29,279
an ADU just by the way you can't cover

3998
02:47:29,279 --> 02:47:32,160
more than 40%. We'll look at that. And

3999
02:47:32,160 --> 02:47:36,319
then two is the utilities have to be

4000
02:47:36,319 --> 02:47:38,640
attached to the primary

4001
02:47:38,640 --> 02:47:41,760
instead of separate. Those are the three

4002
02:47:41,760 --> 02:47:45,920
>> I have. Well, I think Rich's point, um,

4003
02:47:45,920 --> 02:47:49,520
I think there are heritage homes, I

4004
02:47:49,520 --> 02:47:51,680
don't know what we call them,

4005
02:47:51,680 --> 02:47:53,680
>> older, you know, lots where it it

4006
02:47:53,680 --> 02:47:55,120
actually is a different dynamic and

4007
02:47:55,120 --> 02:47:56,720
there isn't a place to put another and

4008
02:47:56,720 --> 02:47:58,560
the garage may be the right place to put

4009
02:47:58,560 --> 02:47:59,439
that.

4010
02:47:59,439 --> 02:47:59,840
>> Yeah.

4011
02:47:59,840 --> 02:48:03,120
>> Um, so I I'd love to I'd love to see if

4012
02:48:03,120 --> 02:48:04,160
we could come up with

4013
02:48:04,160 --> 02:48:05,680
>> something creative there.

4014
02:48:05,680 --> 02:48:06,720
>> Yeah.

4015
02:48:06,720 --> 02:48:09,279
>> Well, I will work on something. It'll be

4016
02:48:09,279 --> 02:48:11,600
good. And then

4017
02:48:11,600 --> 02:48:14,960
my next my next question is Vinnie

4018
02:48:14,960 --> 02:48:17,760
wanted

4019
02:48:17,760 --> 02:48:19,840
here's my idea is that we work on these

4020
02:48:19,840 --> 02:48:22,080
things we come back and present them but

4021
02:48:22,080 --> 02:48:24,080
then we'll just write it into the zoning

4022
02:48:24,080 --> 02:48:26,319
rewrite and they'll just come. So we

4023
02:48:26,319 --> 02:48:28,319
would come back to a work meeting

4024
02:48:28,319 --> 02:48:30,319
hopefully the next one and just discuss

4025
02:48:30,319 --> 02:48:32,479
these three things and how we would

4026
02:48:32,479 --> 02:48:34,640
incorporate those and then we'll just

4027
02:48:34,640 --> 02:48:36,240
put it into the zoning rewrite that

4028
02:48:36,240 --> 02:48:38,640
comes early fall late summer. So

4029
02:48:38,640 --> 02:48:40,720
basically that would be option.

4030
02:48:40,720 --> 02:48:42,319
>> Yeah, we would just do it as option one,

4031
02:48:42,319 --> 02:48:45,359
but I would also come back to the June

4032
02:48:45,359 --> 02:48:48,560
9th work meeting to just discuss

4033
02:48:48,560 --> 02:48:49,840
>> need to see the like final

4034
02:48:49,840 --> 02:48:51,920
>> Yeah. before we incorporate it in. Make

4035
02:48:51,920 --> 02:48:53,439
sure that you're okay with that language

4036
02:48:53,439 --> 02:48:54,640
and those amendments.

4037
02:48:54,640 --> 02:48:56,720
>> Don't we have some

4038
02:48:56,720 --> 02:48:59,040
requests to wait until after the zoning

4039
02:48:59,040 --> 02:49:01,120
revites come before council? Just kind

4040
02:49:01,120 --> 02:49:04,080
of delay it until September.

4041
02:49:04,080 --> 02:49:05,520
>> Well, he was Ryan was saying

4042
02:49:05,520 --> 02:49:07,040
incorporated into the rewrite.

4043
02:49:07,040 --> 02:49:08,720
>> Yeah. Incorporate into the

4044
02:49:08,720 --> 02:49:10,160
>> but I want to make sure that you guys

4045
02:49:10,160 --> 02:49:12,160
see the language before it just comes in

4046
02:49:12,160 --> 02:49:13,920
the package of this

4047
02:49:13,920 --> 02:49:16,800
>> hit you back on a plane to

4048
02:49:16,800 --> 02:49:18,240
>> your mother-in-law's kitchen I'm hearing

4049
02:49:18,240 --> 02:49:21,439
is a productive time

4050
02:49:21,439 --> 02:49:23,040
>> does that sound like an okay path

4051
02:49:23,040 --> 02:49:24,560
forward

4052
02:49:24,560 --> 02:49:26,479
>> so the implications are that in the

4053
02:49:26,479 --> 02:49:28,319
meantime somebody could come and request

4054
02:49:28,319 --> 02:49:28,880
a

4055
02:49:28,880 --> 02:49:33,040
>> no because in the meantime SB284 is not

4056
02:49:33,040 --> 02:49:34,800
active so

4057
02:49:34,800 --> 02:49:35,680
>> until October

4058
02:49:35,680 --> 02:49:38,800
>> this is not live. This is just what's

4059
02:49:38,800 --> 02:49:42,640
going to happen when we incorporate it

4060
02:49:42,640 --> 02:49:43,439
in. So

4061
02:49:43,439 --> 02:49:45,920
>> the plan is whatever we do will be in

4062
02:49:45,920 --> 02:49:48,080
effect goes live.

4063
02:49:48,080 --> 02:49:48,479
>> Yes.

4064
02:49:48,479 --> 02:49:50,479
>> I mean Travis, if this is your question,

4065
02:49:50,479 --> 02:49:54,080
uh any place in the blue, somebody could

4066
02:49:54,080 --> 02:49:57,040
build an external right now that doesn't

4067
02:49:57,040 --> 02:49:58,399
match the rules that we're talking

4068
02:49:58,399 --> 02:50:00,319
about. But again, we've had two

4069
02:50:00,319 --> 02:50:03,200
applications in five years in that area.

4070
02:50:03,200 --> 02:50:04,479
>> Okay.

4071
02:50:04,479 --> 02:50:05,120
>> So

4072
02:50:05,120 --> 02:50:08,319
>> thanks. Almost done.

4073
02:50:08,319 --> 02:50:09,040
>> Looks hesitant.

4074
02:50:09,040 --> 02:50:10,319
>> Almost done.

4075
02:50:10,319 --> 02:50:13,200
>> No, we've had two.

4076
02:50:13,200 --> 02:50:14,640
>> Okay,

4077
02:50:14,640 --> 02:50:19,670
>> that's all we have.

4078
02:50:19,680 --> 02:50:23,590
» All right,

4079
02:50:23,600 --> 02:50:27,040
we are doing so well on time.

4080
02:50:27,040 --> 02:50:28,240
>> Take that advice. [clears throat]

4081
02:50:28,240 --> 02:50:31,520
>> No, finish, right? It's like one thing.

4082
02:50:31,520 --> 02:50:33,600
Kind of silly to do a break before

4083
02:50:33,600 --> 02:50:35,680
meals. No, finish it up.

4084
02:50:35,680 --> 02:50:38,319
>> And okay, next. An ordinance amending

4085
02:50:38,319 --> 02:50:40,399
propy code to add a caretaker dwelling

4086
02:50:40,399 --> 02:50:41,920
as a forbidden accessory use in the

4087
02:50:41,920 --> 02:50:43,279
general commercial zone. It's presented

4088
02:50:43,279 --> 02:50:46,960
by Aaron Armore, our planning manager.

4089
02:50:46,960 --> 02:50:49,200
>> Just early.

4090
02:50:49,200 --> 02:50:51,279
>> I guess we do need a break. Oh, we don't

4091
02:50:51,279 --> 02:50:52,399
need break.

4092
02:50:52,399 --> 02:50:57,190
>> There are actually two items.

4093
02:50:57,200 --> 02:51:01,680
» So, are they both presented by

4094
02:51:01,680 --> 02:51:06,790
I need them.

4095
02:51:06,800 --> 02:51:08,800
» Oh yeah.

4096
02:51:08,800 --> 02:51:11,600
>> I want a family compound

4097
02:51:11,600 --> 02:51:16,640
80 raw build like six in my backyard.

4098
02:51:16,640 --> 02:51:16,960
>> Rio

4099
02:51:16,960 --> 02:51:19,688
>> only if they're my direct relatives.

4100
02:51:19,688 --> 02:51:19,760
[clears throat]

4101
02:51:19,760 --> 02:51:25,750
>> My kids are my parents.

4102
02:51:25,760 --> 02:51:29,520
» Again can't anybody.

4103
02:51:29,520 --> 02:51:32,560
>> We're good. This one between

4104
02:51:32,560 --> 02:51:34,479
my sideyard

4105
02:51:34,479 --> 02:51:37,359
worry about

4106
02:51:37,359 --> 02:51:39,680
water that grass

4107
02:51:39,680 --> 02:51:42,800
is mostly house

4108
02:51:42,800 --> 02:51:45,760
like cement right

4109
02:51:45,760 --> 02:51:49,818
there. Yeah.

4110
02:51:49,818 --> 02:51:51,040
[clears throat]

4111
02:51:51,040 --> 02:51:55,349
>> Sorry about that. I was schedu

4112
02:51:55,359 --> 02:51:58,080
» um all right. So,

4113
02:51:58,080 --> 02:52:00,399
air tracker dwellings during partial

4114
02:52:00,399 --> 02:52:02,919
zone. Do you have any questions?

4115
02:52:02,919 --> 02:52:03,279
[laughter]

4116
02:52:03,279 --> 02:52:06,080
>> A lot. Aaron, you're the first one to do

4117
02:52:06,080 --> 02:52:08,640
it right.

4118
02:52:08,640 --> 02:52:10,560
>> Hey, are there any questions?

4119
02:52:10,560 --> 02:52:12,240
>> What inspired this?

4120
02:52:12,240 --> 02:52:12,960
>> Um,

4121
02:52:12,960 --> 02:52:14,319
>> tell good direction.

4122
02:52:14,319 --> 02:52:15,840
>> Tell them about the business that asked

4123
02:52:15,840 --> 02:52:17,200
for it and where it started.

4124
02:52:17,200 --> 02:52:19,680
>> Oh, the request. Okay. Yes. So, River

4125
02:52:19,680 --> 02:52:22,800
Health um out there on

4126
02:52:22,800 --> 02:52:24,000
>> was it Columbia Lane?

4127
02:52:24,000 --> 02:52:25,279
>> It's all the way to Grand View. in Grand

4128
02:52:25,279 --> 02:52:27,279
View on the the corner there

4129
02:52:27,279 --> 02:52:29,120
>> behind the eye service.

4130
02:52:29,120 --> 02:52:31,680
>> It's 1561 North Grand View Lane. Um

4131
02:52:31,680 --> 02:52:34,720
they've had some issues with

4132
02:52:34,720 --> 02:52:38,000
crime, homelessness, um stuff like that

4133
02:52:38,000 --> 02:52:40,080
happening after hours.

4134
02:52:40,080 --> 02:52:42,000
>> Um so they started to talk to staff

4135
02:52:42,000 --> 02:52:44,160
about, you know, what can we do here?

4136
02:52:44,160 --> 02:52:45,359
Can we can we have somebody there

4137
02:52:45,359 --> 02:52:47,439
overnight? No, you can't. It's in a in

4138
02:52:47,439 --> 02:52:51,279
this commercial zone. Uh so they uh came

4139
02:52:51,279 --> 02:52:52,880
back to me with this request saying

4140
02:52:52,880 --> 02:52:55,279
could we have caretaker dwelling as an

4141
02:52:55,279 --> 02:52:57,279
accessory use like it is in PF zone and

4142
02:52:57,279 --> 02:53:00,800
a couple other zones. Um so I told them

4143
02:53:00,800 --> 02:53:02,240
how to apply for that kind of helped

4144
02:53:02,240 --> 02:53:03,920
them point out where the language would

4145
02:53:03,920 --> 02:53:07,439
have to be. Um directed them to to that

4146
02:53:07,439 --> 02:53:09,520
process. Um so that's where it came

4147
02:53:09,520 --> 02:53:11,520
from. I went through planning

4148
02:53:11,520 --> 02:53:13,200
commission. They asked some pretty good

4149
02:53:13,200 --> 02:53:15,040
questions more to do with the actual

4150
02:53:15,040 --> 02:53:18,160
caretaker dwelling standards. That's not

4151
02:53:18,160 --> 02:53:22,319
part of this discussion, but um that's where it's at. That's where it

4152
02:53:22,319 --> 02:53:22,800
came from.

4153
02:53:22,800 --> 02:53:25,120
>> What are our caretaker standards?

4154
02:53:25,120 --> 02:53:29,279
>> Um we can go there. 1434

4155
02:53:29,279 --> 02:53:30,560
>> because I know they were commenting on

4156
02:53:30,560 --> 02:53:31,600
how small.

4157
02:53:31,600 --> 02:53:35,120
>> Yeah. So there's there's one one per

4158
02:53:35,120 --> 02:53:36,000
business

4159
02:53:36,000 --> 02:53:37,439
>> like 200 square feet.

4160
02:53:37,439 --> 02:53:39,760
>> There's size requirements.

4161
02:53:39,760 --> 02:53:41,920
>> Um has to be has to be an employee of

4162
02:53:41,920 --> 02:53:44,560
the business.

4163
02:53:44,560 --> 02:53:47,120
>> Just taking a second to get there.

4164
02:53:47,120 --> 02:53:50,160
Thank you Kevin. I appreciate that. Max

4165
02:53:50,160 --> 02:53:54,469
one

4166
02:53:54,479 --> 02:53:57,200
» they have to be employed so much time

4167
02:53:57,200 --> 02:53:58,399
data thing

4168
02:53:58,399 --> 02:54:00,800
>> but does that employment in

4169
02:54:00,800 --> 02:54:02,319
>> like include like night time because

4170
02:54:02,319 --> 02:54:04,560
then they're all all night time with

4171
02:54:04,560 --> 02:54:06,560
that

4172
02:54:06,560 --> 02:54:07,359
>> security

4173
02:54:07,359 --> 02:54:09,439
>> I have

4174
02:54:09,439 --> 02:54:10,080
>> okay

4175
02:54:10,080 --> 02:54:12,319
>> basically accessory to a functioning

4176
02:54:12,319 --> 02:54:14,720
principal use max one per lot same

4177
02:54:14,720 --> 02:54:16,560
property as principal use occupied by

4178
02:54:16,560 --> 02:54:19,279
one family only one kitchen No

4179
02:54:19,279 --> 02:54:21,359
associated accessory living space, max

4180
02:54:21,359 --> 02:54:23,200
1200 foot architecturally compatible

4181
02:54:23,200 --> 02:54:24,880
green building, not a manufactured

4182
02:54:24,880 --> 02:54:26,800
dwelling, and occupied or rented only by

4183
02:54:26,800 --> 02:54:28,319
an employee or subcontractor of the

4184
02:54:28,319 --> 02:54:30,240
legal entity that owns the principal

4185
02:54:30,240 --> 02:54:31,600
uses.

4186
02:54:31,600 --> 02:54:33,120
>> So that doesn't sound too bad. My

4187
02:54:33,120 --> 02:54:36,960
question would be why a conditional use

4188
02:54:36,960 --> 02:54:39,439
permit? Why not just an overlay

4189
02:54:39,439 --> 02:54:40,319
where they'd have to

4190
02:54:40,319 --> 02:54:43,279
>> It's not a it's an accessory.

4191
02:54:43,279 --> 02:54:45,920
>> It'd be a permitted accessory use to the

4192
02:54:45,920 --> 02:54:47,920
permitted principle of some. So if they

4193
02:54:47,920 --> 02:54:49,120
have that they can automatic

4194
02:54:49,120 --> 02:54:50,000
>> so they have a commercial use

4195
02:54:50,000 --> 02:54:52,560
established then they can do this as

4196
02:54:52,560 --> 02:54:54,640
accessory use

4197
02:54:54,640 --> 02:54:56,399
by right

4198
02:54:56,399 --> 02:54:58,080
with a building permit. [clears throat]

4199
02:54:58,080 --> 02:54:59,359
>> What are the downsides?

4200
02:54:59,359 --> 02:55:03,120
>> Yeah. How is this ab get abused or worst

4201
02:55:03,120 --> 02:55:03,840
case scenario?

4202
02:55:03,840 --> 02:55:05,040
>> Why don't we have this in the books

4203
02:55:05,040 --> 02:55:06,560
already?

4204
02:55:06,560 --> 02:55:09,840
>> Nobody's asked for it. [laughter]

4205
02:55:09,840 --> 02:55:11,359
>> It would be citywide.

4206
02:55:11,359 --> 02:55:13,040
through all the CG

4207
02:55:13,040 --> 02:55:15,680
zones that meet these standards. Um,

4208
02:55:15,680 --> 02:55:17,840
currently it's it's listed in a few

4209
02:55:17,840 --> 02:55:20,479
zones, um, but very rarely used. Uh,

4210
02:55:20,479 --> 02:55:22,640
there's storage facility out by the lake

4211
02:55:22,640 --> 02:55:25,439
on in the PF zone that's used it. Um,

4212
02:55:25,439 --> 02:55:29,429
there's a couple others.

4213
02:55:29,439 --> 02:55:31,120
» I think the fact that this being listed

4214
02:55:31,120 --> 02:55:33,040
or proposed as an accessory use is

4215
02:55:33,040 --> 02:55:35,840
helpful because as an accessory use, it

4216
02:55:35,840 --> 02:55:39,359
has to be a minor part of the land use.

4217
02:55:39,359 --> 02:55:41,359
We we this wouldn't be able to be used

4218
02:55:41,359 --> 02:55:43,600
to allow residential to start to take

4219
02:55:43,600 --> 02:55:46,000
over the commercial building. It's only

4220
02:55:46,000 --> 02:55:48,000
accessory to the commercial building

4221
02:55:48,000 --> 02:55:50,240
subject all these restrictions that Jeff

4222
02:55:50,240 --> 02:55:52,800
referred to.

4223
02:55:52,800 --> 02:55:55,680
>> Um can I ask a question? Give me an idea

4224
02:55:55,680 --> 02:55:57,680
of what 12,200 ft looks like.

4225
02:55:57,680 --> 02:55:59,200
>> It's this room right here.

4226
02:55:59,200 --> 02:56:01,120
Okay.

4227
02:56:01,120 --> 02:56:06,070
>> I mean sorry don't take my

4228
02:56:06,080 --> 02:56:08,640
10 by 12. So there's some by me that's

4229
02:56:08,640 --> 02:56:11,040
just like a one one level, three

4230
02:56:11,040 --> 02:56:13,279
bedrooms, one bath, living room and a

4231
02:56:13,279 --> 02:56:17,520
>> Okay. Um, so I like this. So tell me how

4232
02:56:17,520 --> 02:56:19,680
do we have this already built or Aaron

4233
02:56:19,680 --> 02:56:22,240
or is like I like the idea of someone

4234
02:56:22,240 --> 02:56:24,800
having a mortuary house and they live up

4235
02:56:24,800 --> 02:56:26,479
above it or they have a pet store and

4236
02:56:26,479 --> 02:56:28,319
they live above the pet store like they

4237
02:56:28,319 --> 02:56:29,840
take an old house like can that be done

4238
02:56:29,840 --> 02:56:31,279
right now in our code?

4239
02:56:31,279 --> 02:56:34,080
>> Um, yes. So in certain areas that can be

4240
02:56:34,080 --> 02:56:35,920
done. The CG zone you can't currently do

4241
02:56:35,920 --> 02:56:38,720
that. So this would kind of open up that

4242
02:56:38,720 --> 02:56:41,120
opportunity for more of a a live work

4243
02:56:41,120 --> 02:56:42,000
environment.

4244
02:56:42,000 --> 02:56:43,600
>> So in those other zones, is it limited

4245
02:56:43,600 --> 02:56:44,720
to 1,200?

4246
02:56:44,720 --> 02:56:47,279
>> Uh it's not limited to 1200 specifically

4247
02:56:47,279 --> 02:56:49,439
like it is under our caretaker building

4248
02:56:49,439 --> 02:56:51,520
because it's just a another permitted

4249
02:56:51,520 --> 02:56:52,640
use within the zone.

4250
02:56:52,640 --> 02:56:54,720
>> Okay.

4251
02:56:54,720 --> 02:56:56,399
>> I'm thinking the downtown zones, mixed

4252
02:56:56,399 --> 02:56:58,640
use zones, things like that. As I was

4253
02:56:58,640 --> 02:57:01,840
reviewing the um commission report, uh

4254
02:57:01,840 --> 02:57:05,520
there was reference to um a comment

4255
02:57:05,520 --> 02:57:08,880
Julie Rose made on behalf of com online

4256
02:57:08,880 --> 02:57:11,680
commenters about potential abuse of the

4257
02:57:11,680 --> 02:57:14,000
caretaker dwelling and I couldn't think

4258
02:57:14,000 --> 02:57:16,960
of did anyone speak to that or

4259
02:57:16,960 --> 02:57:18,720
>> no I think I think you're speaking to

4260
02:57:18,720 --> 02:57:20,479
that just as much as any other rental

4261
02:57:20,479 --> 02:57:22,399
property. You know what what if it's

4262
02:57:22,399 --> 02:57:24,080
over occupied? What if they try to put a

4263
02:57:24,080 --> 02:57:26,720
second unit in there? Things like that.

4264
02:57:26,720 --> 02:57:29,439
Okay,

4265
02:57:29,439 --> 02:57:31,920
>> that's what I took from it.

4266
02:57:31,920 --> 02:57:34,560
>> I mean, or does a business

4267
02:57:34,560 --> 02:57:36,560
just supplement their income by renting

4268
02:57:36,560 --> 02:57:38,800
out a apartment above their business

4269
02:57:38,800 --> 02:57:41,439
that it's not really a caretaker?

4270
02:57:41,439 --> 02:57:44,240
>> Okay. Sure.

4271
02:57:44,240 --> 02:57:45,439
>> That becomes mixed use.

4272
02:57:45,439 --> 02:57:47,120
>> But as a caretaker, they have to be an

4273
02:57:47,120 --> 02:57:47,439
employee.

4274
02:57:47,439 --> 02:57:49,040
>> They have to be an employee.

4275
02:57:49,040 --> 02:57:50,240
>> So maybe it's a

4276
02:57:50,240 --> 02:57:51,279
>> thing of use.

4277
02:57:51,279 --> 02:57:53,520
>> Yeah. Maybe they don't follow the rules.

4278
02:57:53,520 --> 02:57:54,960
So if there's a concern or a complaint

4279
02:57:54,960 --> 02:57:56,720
issued to the city, we can go and knock

4280
02:57:56,720 --> 02:57:59,279
and go and ask for those records to

4281
02:57:59,279 --> 02:58:01,279
>> Yeah. So where I live, we we've got a

4282
02:58:01,279 --> 02:58:03,200
couple of these things, right? Both with

4283
02:58:03,200 --> 02:58:05,760
motel and with Burke mortuary. Um and

4284
02:58:05,760 --> 02:58:08,479
I've seen it with storage units. It it

4285
02:58:08,479 --> 02:58:10,080
really makes sense to be able to have

4286
02:58:10,080 --> 02:58:12,560
someone on site. But I like the idea of

4287
02:58:12,560 --> 02:58:15,279
somebody live above their pet store or

4288
02:58:15,279 --> 02:58:17,439
whatever it is. Like that's that's kind

4289
02:58:17,439 --> 02:58:19,040
of a fantastic thing.

4290
02:58:19,040 --> 02:58:20,800
>> That brings up a thought. So when I was

4291
02:58:20,800 --> 02:58:23,439
in college down in Price, they did

4292
02:58:23,439 --> 02:58:25,120
something like that with the hotels, but

4293
02:58:25,120 --> 02:58:27,040
they'd have college kids do that. So

4294
02:58:27,040 --> 02:58:28,800
would that be a permitted use to allow

4295
02:58:28,800 --> 02:58:31,200
three college kids to service?

4296
02:58:31,200 --> 02:58:33,680
>> Well, I think it says a single

4297
02:58:33,680 --> 02:58:36,399
individual or a family. So three single

4298
02:58:36,399 --> 02:58:37,920
college students would

4299
02:58:37,920 --> 02:58:40,640
>> No, they would family definition.

4300
02:58:40,640 --> 02:58:43,120
>> That's true. But for the people who do

4301
02:58:43,120 --> 02:58:45,040
live, I think there there are two

4302
02:58:45,040 --> 02:58:47,120
families associated with Berg mortuary

4303
02:58:47,120 --> 02:58:49,359
and they have ships that they have to be

4304
02:58:49,359 --> 02:58:51,920
that's what they did on all the time and

4305
02:58:51,920 --> 02:58:53,040
so

4306
02:58:53,040 --> 02:58:55,439
>> it's and they're their odd hours.

4307
02:58:55,439 --> 02:58:56,640
>> So you're saying that it wasn't really

4308
02:58:56,640 --> 02:58:57,920
their living that's not their primary

4309
02:58:57,920 --> 02:58:58,479
residence.

4310
02:58:58,479 --> 02:58:58,800
>> Yeah,

4311
02:58:58,800 --> 02:59:00,960
>> it is where they live. So like young

4312
02:59:00,960 --> 02:59:02,160
married couples,

4313
02:59:02,160 --> 02:59:06,240
>> they share their home else. Well, I I

4314
02:59:06,240 --> 02:59:07,760
think there are I don't know if Burke

4315
02:59:07,760 --> 02:59:09,200
has two apartments or I think it just

4316
02:59:09,200 --> 02:59:11,680
has one, but there are two families that

4317
02:59:11,680 --> 02:59:13,359
have to take turns because you have to

4318
02:59:13,359 --> 02:59:14,960
have somebody available to answer the

4319
02:59:14,960 --> 02:59:17,040
phone 24/7.

4320
02:59:17,040 --> 02:59:18,800
>> That was like fire department where you

4321
02:59:18,800 --> 02:59:21,439
have a shift. you take a 24-hour shift,

4322
02:59:21,439 --> 02:59:22,399
someone's takes

4323
02:59:22,399 --> 02:59:24,319
>> Well, I don't know Berg's exact

4324
02:59:24,319 --> 02:59:25,680
employment standards, but somebody's

4325
02:59:25,680 --> 02:59:28,080
always got to be there. And it makes it

4326
02:59:28,080 --> 02:59:30,560
hard for the families who are living in

4327
02:59:30,560 --> 02:59:32,080
those caretaking things to, you know,

4328
02:59:32,080 --> 02:59:33,600
get off on vacation and everything, but

4329
02:59:33,600 --> 02:59:35,600
they usually get supplemented rent or

4330
02:59:35,600 --> 02:59:36,319
lower rent.

4331
02:59:36,319 --> 02:59:36,880
>> Yeah.

4332
02:59:36,880 --> 02:59:39,279
>> Because of that, but that's why it's

4333
02:59:39,279 --> 02:59:41,600
nice to be able to have somebody that

4334
02:59:41,600 --> 02:59:44,319
you can tag team on for it.

4335
02:59:44,319 --> 02:59:46,399
>> Yeah. And I'm sure what they would do is

4336
02:59:46,399 --> 02:59:48,000
just say you're in charge of security at

4337
02:59:48,000 --> 02:59:50,720
night and we will pay you in lie of rent

4338
02:59:50,720 --> 02:59:52,800
or something. These kids, they'd all

4339
02:59:52,800 --> 02:59:54,640
three live in that apartment behind the

4340
02:59:54,640 --> 02:59:56,240
check-in desk and then they'd have

4341
02:59:56,240 --> 02:59:58,399
shifts who had to work what night,

4342
02:59:58,399 --> 03:00:03,110
right? So

4343
03:00:03,120 --> 03:00:07,110
» something like that.

4344
03:00:07,120 --> 03:00:10,240
» Well, I I couldn't see any downside uh

4345
03:00:10,240 --> 03:00:12,640
to this. Uh that's why the question was

4346
03:00:12,640 --> 03:00:17,359
asked. any downside that you see?

4347
03:00:17,359 --> 03:00:23,040
>> Um, not in my opinion. No.

4348
03:00:23,040 --> 03:00:24,880
>> Right. Well, thanks. Any other questions

4349
03:00:24,880 --> 03:00:27,040
for Eric?

4350
03:00:27,040 --> 03:00:27,840
>> Okay. Thanks, Eric.

4351
03:00:27,840 --> 03:00:30,479
>> Okay. Thanks.

4352
03:00:30,479 --> 03:00:31,840
>> If there's no objection, we'll now

4353
03:00:31,840 --> 03:00:34,000
recess the promises council and convene

4354
03:00:34,000 --> 03:00:36,160
the RDA governing board by unanimous

4355
03:00:36,160 --> 03:00:40,230
consent.

4356
03:00:40,240 --> 03:00:41,920
I have a resolution approving the league

4357
03:00:41,920 --> 03:00:43,520
development agency of Provo City to

4358
03:00:43,520 --> 03:00:45,520
adopt a project area budget for the Lake

4359
03:00:45,520 --> 03:00:47,760
View Parkway community reinvestment

4360
03:00:47,760 --> 03:00:49,680
area. This is can be presented by

4361
03:00:49,680 --> 03:00:51,200
Melissa,

4362
03:00:51,200 --> 03:00:55,990
the RDA director.

4363
03:00:56,000 --> 03:00:58,240
» Welcome.

4364
03:00:58,240 --> 03:01:00,000
>> Good afternoon.

4365
03:01:00,000 --> 03:01:04,000
Um so this is is just bringing forward

4366
03:01:04,000 --> 03:01:08,080
um the budget uh reimagined from what

4367
03:01:08,080 --> 03:01:11,200
everybody saw in December and January

4368
03:01:11,200 --> 03:01:14,479
iterations um at council's request. We

4369
03:01:14,479 --> 03:01:18,240
reworked we reworked the budget um

4370
03:01:18,240 --> 03:01:20,720
contemplating the spaces just being

4371
03:01:20,720 --> 03:01:22,800
general retail as opposed to like a

4372
03:01:22,800 --> 03:01:25,279
superstore or something like that. Um,

4373
03:01:25,279 --> 03:01:29,359
so the numbers are based on on that

4374
03:01:29,359 --> 03:01:33,200
square footage being general retail and

4375
03:01:33,200 --> 03:01:37,120
um and on any incentive being a sales

4376
03:01:37,120 --> 03:01:44,000
tax um a percentage of sales tax um

4377
03:01:44,000 --> 03:01:46,000
incentive based and that would be based

4378
03:01:46,000 --> 03:01:49,600
on point of sales um and

4379
03:01:49,600 --> 03:01:54,000
the store specific um and the This

4380
03:01:54,000 --> 03:01:56,800
budget in no way um obligates us to do

4381
03:01:56,800 --> 03:02:02,160
that. Any um any incentive that um that

4382
03:02:02,160 --> 03:02:04,240
would be awarded would come before the

4383
03:02:04,240 --> 03:02:06,880
full RDA board um through first of all

4384
03:02:06,880 --> 03:02:10,479
an interlocal agreement for any um

4385
03:02:10,479 --> 03:02:14,560
participant and then again through um

4386
03:02:14,560 --> 03:02:16,240
the participation agreement with the

4387
03:02:16,240 --> 03:02:22,870
entity. Um, that's was there.

4388
03:02:22,880 --> 03:02:26,790
Um,

4389
03:02:26,800 --> 03:02:30,720
I think I think that's about

4390
03:02:30,720 --> 03:02:33,279
it. Unless you have any questions for me

4391
03:02:33,279 --> 03:02:34,080
about the

4392
03:02:34,080 --> 03:02:35,680
>> Well, let's let's figure that out.

4393
03:02:35,680 --> 03:02:36,000
>> Okay.

4394
03:02:36,000 --> 03:02:38,080
>> Do you have a question?

4395
03:02:38,080 --> 03:02:40,560
>> Okay. So, the first one's the Walmart

4396
03:02:40,560 --> 03:02:42,319
parcel. The second one is the one to the

4397
03:02:42,319 --> 03:02:43,920
south of the Walmart parcel in Lake

4398
03:02:43,920 --> 03:02:46,640
Parkway. And the third one is the epic

4399
03:02:46,640 --> 03:02:49,040
sports part parcel. Right. So is this

4400
03:02:49,040 --> 03:02:51,359
saying that for Walmart we're going to

4401
03:02:51,359 --> 03:02:54,240
say 1.7

4402
03:02:54,240 --> 03:02:58,000
is that 1.7 million? 1.7 million is what

4403
03:02:58,000 --> 03:03:01,680
we will allow for 50% of the sales tax

4404
03:03:01,680 --> 03:03:02,720
reimbursement. No

4405
03:03:02,720 --> 03:03:04,880
>> no that is that's the value of the

4406
03:03:04,880 --> 03:03:07,120
parcel right now undeveloped. Those are

4407
03:03:07,120 --> 03:03:10,479
parcel values. The Epic Sports Park um

4408
03:03:10,479 --> 03:03:12,800
right now has a zero value because it is

4409
03:03:12,800 --> 03:03:15,359
owned by the city. So it has no taxable

4410
03:03:15,359 --> 03:03:17,200
value. Those are the current taxable

4411
03:03:17,200 --> 03:03:21,279
values according to the um the uh county

4412
03:03:21,279 --> 03:03:22,960
land records.

4413
03:03:22,960 --> 03:03:26,720
>> Okay. So why is this a part of that? We

4414
03:03:26,720 --> 03:03:28,399
have to have this for state retirement

4415
03:03:28,399 --> 03:03:29,120
or

4416
03:03:29,120 --> 03:03:30,479
>> Yes.

4417
03:03:30,479 --> 03:03:32,720
>> And then in no way we don't have we can

4418
03:03:32,720 --> 03:03:35,359
say no to any one of these three parcels

4419
03:03:35,359 --> 03:03:37,680
or we can negotiate instead of 50% we

4420
03:03:37,680 --> 03:03:39,359
can say okay we're only going to do 20.

4421
03:03:39,359 --> 03:03:42,160
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. In the past we

4422
03:03:42,160 --> 03:03:44,399
did I did 50% because when we've done

4423
03:03:44,399 --> 03:03:46,319
sales tax incentives in the past it's

4424
03:03:46,319 --> 03:03:49,279
been 50% of the portion that Provo

4425
03:03:49,279 --> 03:03:52,240
receives um from point of sale sales

4426
03:03:52,240 --> 03:03:53,760
tax. So, but it's been the increment,

4427
03:03:53,760 --> 03:03:56,000
right? It hasn't necessarily been,

4428
03:03:56,000 --> 03:04:02,560
>> right? It's in for the sales tax, it is um it is the increment and um in

4429
03:04:02,560 --> 03:04:04,319
this case, because there are no retail

4430
03:04:04,319 --> 03:04:07,600
spaces, anything that is established is

4431
03:04:07,600 --> 03:04:09,200
incremental adds to the incremental

4432
03:04:09,200 --> 03:04:13,190
value.

4433
03:04:13,200 --> 03:04:13,600
» Thank you.

4434
03:04:13,600 --> 03:04:18,150
>> Any other board members?

4435
03:04:18,160 --> 03:04:20,640
» No.

4436
03:04:20,640 --> 03:04:23,600
So, we just got the the appraised value

4437
03:04:23,600 --> 03:04:27,040
for this sports park property.

4438
03:04:27,040 --> 03:04:28,640
>> Are we going to need to update that and

4439
03:04:28,640 --> 03:04:29,840
pop that in there?

4440
03:04:29,840 --> 03:04:33,200
>> Um, it has no that's the taxable value

4441
03:04:33,200 --> 03:04:35,200
>> and the parcel is still owned by the

4442
03:04:35,200 --> 03:04:36,560
city

4443
03:04:36,560 --> 03:04:38,240
>> as of today,

4444
03:04:38,240 --> 03:04:38,800
>> right?

4445
03:04:38,800 --> 03:04:41,120
>> Um, and it doesn't matter. So, it has no

4446
03:04:41,120 --> 03:04:42,960
taxable value right now.

4447
03:04:42,960 --> 03:04:43,279
>> Okay.

4448
03:04:43,279 --> 03:04:44,240
>> Yes.

4449
03:04:44,240 --> 03:04:46,800
>> But when we do sell it, we we don't have

4450
03:04:46,800 --> 03:04:50,080
to update this budget. Um it depends on

4451
03:04:50,080 --> 03:04:52,080
if we're going to offer a different

4452
03:04:52,080 --> 03:04:54,720
incentive. So the the budget currently

4453
03:04:54,720 --> 03:04:57,439
does not anticipate a property tax

4454
03:04:57,439 --> 03:05:00,080
increment. Um if that is considered at

4455
03:05:00,080 --> 03:05:01,600
some point, we would have to amend the

4456
03:05:01,600 --> 03:05:04,319
budget and then the the appraised value

4457
03:05:04,319 --> 03:05:08,560
for that parcel specifically would be um

4458
03:05:08,560 --> 03:05:10,640
would be updated to the appraisal value

4459
03:05:10,640 --> 03:05:12,560
and then incrementally from there.

4460
03:05:12,560 --> 03:05:14,479
>> Okay. So right now we don't need to do

4461
03:05:14,479 --> 03:05:16,399
anything with that information. We got

4462
03:05:16,399 --> 03:05:18,160
perfect.

4463
03:05:18,160 --> 03:05:20,240
Oh yeah.

4464
03:05:20,240 --> 03:05:23,040
>> And in reality any deal we do with

4465
03:05:23,040 --> 03:05:25,200
anyone or any have to a separate meeting

4466
03:05:25,200 --> 03:05:27,520
separate everything this really means

4467
03:05:27,520 --> 03:05:29,760
nothing in the big picture as far as

4468
03:05:29,760 --> 03:05:33,439
what we are required to do

4469
03:05:33,439 --> 03:05:35,840
to someone if we do make a deal with

4470
03:05:35,840 --> 03:05:37,279
them.

4471
03:05:37,279 --> 03:05:39,920
>> Right? So this is so this is kind of the

4472
03:05:39,920 --> 03:05:41,840
first part of the process. A budget has

4473
03:05:41,840 --> 03:05:44,479
to be in place before we can do any

4474
03:05:44,479 --> 03:05:47,279
separate deals um through a

4475
03:05:47,279 --> 03:05:48,240
participation agreement.

4476
03:05:48,240 --> 03:05:49,439
>> So I understand that we have to have the

4477
03:05:49,439 --> 03:05:51,520
budget in place so we can amend it if we

4478
03:05:51,520 --> 03:05:52,399
need to in the future.

4479
03:05:52,399 --> 03:05:53,120
>> Yes.

4480
03:05:53,120 --> 03:05:54,960
>> Yeah.

4481
03:05:54,960 --> 03:05:56,399
>> Put a tool in your toolbox.

4482
03:05:56,399 --> 03:05:58,560
>> Yeah.

4483
03:05:58,560 --> 03:06:02,560
>> All right. So we want to make a motion.

4484
03:06:02,560 --> 03:06:04,880
>> I'll make a motion we we get this

4485
03:06:04,880 --> 03:06:07,040
approved in Well, we do we need to

4486
03:06:07,040 --> 03:06:09,359
>> um Yeah. I don't think so because the

4487
03:06:09,359 --> 03:06:11,920
public hearing on this will be the next

4488
03:06:11,920 --> 03:06:13,920
um council meeting in June, the first

4489
03:06:13,920 --> 03:06:16,000
one in June. Um so that's when the

4490
03:06:16,000 --> 03:06:17,439
public hearing is scheduled and a

4491
03:06:17,439 --> 03:06:19,439
resolution will come before the board

4492
03:06:19,439 --> 03:06:20,080
>> at that time.

4493
03:06:20,080 --> 03:06:21,760
>> So we don't need a motion.

4494
03:06:21,760 --> 03:06:23,760
>> I don't believe so.

4495
03:06:23,760 --> 03:06:24,160
>> Okay.

4496
03:06:24,160 --> 03:06:26,399
>> This is just informationformational

4497
03:06:26,399 --> 03:06:29,439
only. I really want a motion. All right.

4498
03:06:29,439 --> 03:06:30,960
How about

4499
03:06:30,960 --> 03:06:31,840
>> How about

4500
03:06:31,840 --> 03:06:33,600
>> I I give you a motion that we adjourn

4501
03:06:33,600 --> 03:06:36,080
this meeting. Oh, I'll second that.

4502
03:06:36,080 --> 03:06:37,520
>> Hold on.

4503
03:06:37,520 --> 03:06:40,240
Well, no. Everybody get

4504
03:06:40,240 --> 03:06:41,760
excited. Don't get ahead of yourself.

4505
03:06:41,760 --> 03:06:43,040
>> I need to turn the page.

4506
03:06:43,040 --> 03:06:46,240
>> All right. If there are no objections,

4507
03:06:46,240 --> 03:06:47,840
we will now adjourn the RDA governing

4508
03:06:47,840 --> 03:06:50,160
board and reconvene as the Provo

4509
03:06:50,160 --> 03:06:53,359
Municipal Council by unanimous consent.

4510
03:06:53,359 --> 03:06:54,720
>> You take all the fun out of that.

4511
03:06:54,720 --> 03:06:56,160
>> All right. And as the pro municipal

4512
03:06:56,160 --> 03:06:57,840
council will turn over to Brian to

4513
03:06:57,840 --> 03:07:00,080
explain our closed meeting, please.

4514
03:07:00,080 --> 03:07:02,560
>> Very good. Uh we have three topics

4515
03:07:02,560 --> 03:07:04,399
actually to discuss tonight which

4516
03:07:04,399 --> 03:07:06,800
involve um all reasons that are approved

4517
03:07:06,800 --> 03:07:08,479
by the statute, character and competence

4518
03:07:08,479 --> 03:07:10,560
of an individual uh property

4519
03:07:10,560 --> 03:07:14,240
transaction. So uh that are permitted by

4520
03:07:14,240 --> 03:07:15,760
state statute. So it would be

4521
03:07:15,760 --> 03:07:17,359
appropriate to move to close the meeting

4522
03:07:17,359 --> 03:07:18,720
at this time.

4523
03:07:18,720 --> 03:07:20,800
>> Thank you, Brian. Do I have a motion?

4524
03:07:20,800 --> 03:07:22,960
>> I'll motion that we close the meeting.

4525
03:07:22,960 --> 03:07:24,319
>> Great. Do I have a second?

4526
03:07:24,319 --> 03:07:25,359
>> Second.

4527
03:07:25,359 --> 03:07:28,560
>> All right. We will now recess approve it

4528
03:07:28,560 --> 03:07:31,760
to a council work meeting with you to

4529
03:07:31,760 --> 03:07:32,080
vote.

4530
03:07:32,080 --> 03:07:34,479
>> Oh, sorry. Have to vote for that motion.

4531
03:07:34,479 --> 03:07:36,560
Apologize. Councelor Whipple,

4532
03:07:36,560 --> 03:07:38,160
>> yes. Councelor Garrett,

4533
03:07:38,160 --> 03:07:38,800
>> yes.

4534
03:07:38,800 --> 03:07:42,000
>> Council, councelor McKay, yes. Councelor

4535
03:07:42,000 --> 03:07:42,560
Bogdan,

4536
03:07:42,560 --> 03:07:42,880
>> yes.

4537
03:07:42,880 --> 03:07:43,760
>> Council Hoben,

4538
03:07:43,760 --> 03:07:44,080
>> yes.

4539
03:07:44,080 --> 03:07:45,200
>> And council,

4540
03:07:45,200 --> 03:07:45,920
>> yes.

4541
03:07:45,920 --> 03:07:48,479
>> We will now re That's 70. We'll now

4542
03:07:48,479 --> 03:07:50,000
recess the permissible council and

4543
03:07:50,000 --> 03:07:51,520
reconvene in the preunction room for a

4544
03:07:51,520 --> 03:07:56,150
closed meeting.

4545
03:07:56,160 --> 03:07:59,800
Recording stopped.