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1:00

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p.m.

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>> a.m.

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» [laughter]

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>> Not a typo.

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>> Thankfully, we don't meet at 1:00 a.m.

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>> It has to be in China.

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>> It's the other one.

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>> Um today we have with us Gary Garrett,

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Council Becky Baldwin, Katrice Mackay,

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Craig Christiansen, and Jeff Whitlock.

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And we have Travis Hoban online.

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» Yes, he's on.

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>> All right, great. And we have Mayor

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Michelle Kaufusi.

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Although this is a public meeting, only

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the presenters and those invited by the

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council may speak or ask questions

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unless otherwise invited by the chair.

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Please wait to speak until called on by

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the council chair. When speaking, please

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be sure to use the microphone so that

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the record is clear

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and those attending virtually can hear

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you. Please also be sure to limit side

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conversations as they interfere with the

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audio recording. If you need to have a

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side conversation, please step out of

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the work meeting room.

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It is proposed that we approve the

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following minutes, June 8th, 2020 work

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meeting.

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Are there any objections or requested

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changes?

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All right, seeing no objection, I

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declare the minutes approved by

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unanimous consent.

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All right.

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First we're going to look at is a

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resolution approving urban deer

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an urban deer control plan.

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And we'll have 30 minutes and we're it's

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to be presented by Nicholas

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Wollstein, assistant city attorney,

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and Greg Hoak, a BYU managing director

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of building operations and grounds. I'm

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actually very excited to hear about

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this.

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You're welcome to come up.

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» I just come.

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It's not going to be

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and this is the mic guy I'm assuming.

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>> It is.

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>> So we guess.

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Yeah, we don't we don't have any slides

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so I'm a

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this one

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I was told more or less that um, well,

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people read the materials. They don't

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want too much for preliminary

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presentation. So, there's a few things

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though I want to want to cover that will

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lead to um, uh

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First, one thing that isn't in your

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materials though I think in at least the

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resolution it refers to it is that if we

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were to go forward with this there would

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need to be a contract between BYU and

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um, uh Provo. That would primarily be

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basically they agree to act as described

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in this deer plan since really as you

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know as it's written they do basically

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everything as far as the daily

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operations. If

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they also have to follow that what they

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call the core, you know, the certificate

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of registration. There are certain

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limitations on how you approach the

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program. Because of that they agree to

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that and we would agree, you know, to we

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oversee it. We have to be the liaison. I

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mean, it's

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we're approaching this in an unusual

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way. It's still our program. It's still

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the Provo program, but at this moment if

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it were approved it would be, you know,

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most of the daily operations again we

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run by BYU. One other thing that would

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be included in that is uh

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a sort of broad indemnification clause

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saying that the actions taken by the um,

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uh

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BYU employees in creating this, you

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know, in running this plan, uh they'll

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indemnify BYU or Provo I should say

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against, you know, incidents damages

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that arise from that because um, uh

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I mean that's just

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sort of our our compensation to a degree

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and of course there are risks involved

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in this. So, if BYU is the one testing

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this program which they are, seems

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sensible to have them be the ones you

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know sort of taking on the risk there.

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One other thing in the current um, uh

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version of the program, it says the deer

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could be euthanized with 2020 with 22

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uh firearms. Having reviewed that,

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discussed that with, you know, police

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officials both here and at BYU, that is

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not what we we to go forward with. The

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current intention if we can continue

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with this plan we'd really use a captive

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bolt pistols to euthanize the um uh

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deer. So, it wouldn't fundamentally

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change that. They'd still be trapped,

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still be euthanized, but there would not

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be a firearm used in um uh

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at this which of course would

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reduce the danger and we'd hope reduce,

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you know, potential public disturbances

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as well. Anyway, I'm uh

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And really, that's about all I had. We

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do have a Greg Cook here. He's sort of

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be running it on there and we do have an

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attorney from BYU uh Aaron Worthen. If

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we have any questions for him, he could

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run up too. But uh I guess I'll just

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open the floor any anything anyone wants

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to discuss about this and um uh

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>> Any questions? Counselor Gary Garrett.

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>> When this um was first presented to us

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several months ago, possibly a year or

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two,

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there was talk of a range of 50 to 60

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deer

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in the campus area. Is that still the

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case or does that say?

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>> Uh yeah, that's the estimate that

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there's about 60.

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>> I guess that there's more than 60, but

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probably on the lower end 60.

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>> Mhm.

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>> Yeah, okay.

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» Have you

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Can I add on to that or do I have

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>> Yeah, I'm just Sheriff they're if

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they're okay.

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>> And once again, the idea is not to

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eliminate all the deer on campus, it's

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just to get that down to like a

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manageable amount and we're good from

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point

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on that. Hopefully we can call 20 per

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year till we get down to

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keeping 20 on campus.

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>> Counselor Becky Bogden.

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>> I saw

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you're looking at safety. So, when would

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you do this? Would you do it like during

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the summer or

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>> Yeah, good question. We have We have We

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would We're hoping to do this just in

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the month of August while most of our

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students are off campus and there's not

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as much going on on campus.

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» We'd hate for there to be a human and a

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deer that gets hit or something, right?

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>> I I didn't hear that. Sorry.

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>> We'd We'd hate for it to be a human, not

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a deer that gets hit cuz

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the way your campus is still pretty much

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within the inner parts of our city.

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>> Correct.

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>> And this is just on your property,

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right?

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>> Yep, just on campus.

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» Councilwoman Buck.

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>> So, uh just

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walking through the basics, just layman,

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make sure I understand. Basically,

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you're going to catch the deer with

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traps,

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take them

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>> What kind of traps?

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>> Uh it's a it's a walk-in trap.

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>> Walk-in trap?

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>> Like a whole like the whole body goes

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into a trap?

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>> It's almost like a netted

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pen about this tall, that wide. We bait

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it with apples and they go in, close it.

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>> And then you're going to then move it

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somewhere and shoot it. Where is it

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going to be moved to?

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>> So, we would we would euthanize the deer

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right there on spot and then the people

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that were donating the venison the meat

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to, they would show up at that time and

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>> So, it's going to be all pre-coordinated

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the the donation of the meat is

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pre-coordinated.

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>> Correct. Yeah, once we know that we have

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it in the trap, we're going to start

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calling people that are on that list and

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say, "Hey, can you be here within an

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hour?" and and have that all happen

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about the same time.

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>> As

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sorry.

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>> You can go.

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>> As part of the program, you are required

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to use the you know, the carcasses and

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the meat as much as we can. So, we do

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have a list of 20 donors who will they

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can get it and take it and they'll

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ensure that they'll have put the you

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know, the

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to good use instead of it just being

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wasted. That said, as you may have seen

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the antlers they're all taken by the um

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they're taken by the wildlife division.

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So, it's not some sort of I don't know,

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secret antler collecting method or

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anything like that. It's Yeah.

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>> And then I assume

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>> [clears throat]

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>> there's going to be like you have some

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protocols in place for safety as far as

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discharging the firearm.

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>> Yeah, so and

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so things have changed. We're going to

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use a bolt gun as well. So, there will

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be no discharging of a firearm.

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>> What is that? What's a bolt gun?

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>> It's a gun with a bolt comes out. It's

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shoots really fast. Stops it. It's

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pneumatic. So, the bolt shoots out about

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2 and 1/2 in and then immediately goes

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back in. So, nothing is shot or

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>> As I understand it, it's pretty much the

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standard livestock, you know, uh uh

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>> slaughtering method.

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>> And then um

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one last uh two two final questions on

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my end.

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What's the underlying motivation? Can

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you speak that a bit more?

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>> Is that safety for the students?

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>> yeah. There's There's deer all all over

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campus. If you guys have the opportunity

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to drive through there and we don't want

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somebody to get hurt, whether it's uh

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driving and hitting them or if they're

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on their Segways or

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uh etc. Uh another one of the problems

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that we're starting to have is that

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there's a lot of inbreeding that's going

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on. And so, these 60 deer that we

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believe are staying on campus, they're

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just they're just inbreeding and I don't

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know if I

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pass this around, but here's here's a

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picture of one of the deer. You can see

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that there's

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it's deformed. I don't know what's going

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on with their eyes, but this is kind of

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a severe case. A lot of them have antler

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issues as well. Should I pass this?

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>> Um

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I mean, welcome to the

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>> Yeah, okay. Thank you.

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Um so so, safety um

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and uh and then you damage on campus as

275
00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:50,480
well.

276
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,280
>> Do uh

277
00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,400
the goal's to reduce the herd to 20.

278
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:54,720
>> Correct.

279
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,560
>> Basically 20. Why why down to 20 instead

280
00:08:56,560 --> 00:08:57,520
of all the way? What's the thought

281
00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:58,040
process there?

282
00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,360
>> Uh I don't I don't think

283
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:01,520
First, I don't think we'll ever get it

284
00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,400
all the way down just our proximity to the mountains.

285
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,720
Um and then we feel that

286
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,520
without eradicating them completely. Um

287
00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:12,680
we know that there's people that enjoy

288
00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:14,280
having them. They're on campus. Students

289
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:15,720
walking by and seeing them and they're

290
00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:17,880
cute. Um

291
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,760
we just thought it'd be more manageable

292
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,080
at that number.

293
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,480
>> And then last final question, the

294
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,440
indemnification

295
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,160
I don't think I saw that drafted in the

296
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:28,600
packet. Will that be drafted before the

297
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,760
final meeting for us to review?

298
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,040
>> Yeah, it will be.

299
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,240
>> Okay. And Brian, you feel

300
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,400
comfortable with that?

301
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:37,040
>> Well, I

302
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:37,760
>> in concept.

303
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:38,960
>> I was going to say in concept. We need

304
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,840
to see the draft, but I I think as long

305
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:41,920
as the

306
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,120
There's pretty standard language for

307
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,440
that usually. So, as long as it meets

308
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:46,680
the standards, I think we'll be That'll

309
00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:47,440
be fine.

310
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,070
>> Yeah, thank you.

311
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,080
» So, along those lines, if you're not

312
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,240
eradicating to zero potentially every 5

313
00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,680
years, is there a need to undertake a

314
00:09:58,680 --> 00:09:59,920
program again? Is that

315
00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:01,640
>> Well, we're Yeah, we're I think we're

316
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,840
hoping

317
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,800
Yeah, we feel that it's getting close to 20. We'd probably pull off four a

318
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,160
year, but I think it'll take a few years

319
00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,520
to to get down to that number.

320
00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,280
Yeah, especially with us just doing this

321
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:15,920
for 1 month. You know, if we were doing

322
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,200
it all fall, we could get more. But,

323
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:19,080
yeah.

324
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:20,440
>> And to ex- get a little more, it is

325
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,360
currently set that it runs through If

326
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,200
you approve it, it runs through 2029.

327
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,640
So, like I said, you can they can they

328
00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,480
can adjust. They can They do it for a

329
00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:28,920
year. They see what things look like,

330
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,400
see how it looks like, and then I think

331
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,320
it says they could take up to 20 each

332
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,680
year, but that doesn't That's sort of

333
00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:36,040
the max. It doesn't mean that they're

334
00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,680
going to do that. It's just um

335
00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:40,960
That That said, these I mean, these

336
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:42,560
programs aren't set in stone. If it

337
00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:44,800
turns out that it uh

338
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:45,520
you know,

339
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,200
we dis- discuss it and think there's

340
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:48,520
ways to potentially modify to make it

341
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,360
better, we can revisit in the future,

342
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,680
but this is how it'd be set. All right.

343
00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:54,680
Obviously, we haven't set it now, so but

344
00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:56,080
my point being that if we provide a

345
00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,400
program and if we set it, that's, you

346
00:10:58,400 --> 00:10:59,280
know, there's still room for

347
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,120
modification in the future if we uh we

348
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,440
can look into it and think it's needed.

349
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,560
>> All right. Any other questions?

350
00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:09,160
All right. Well, thank you so much.

351
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,590
>> Thank you.

352
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:13,760
» All right. Next, we have an ordinance

353
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,880
amending the general plan to add the

354
00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:17,760
storm drain master plan. And this will

355
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,120
be presented by Hanal Sausal, our city

356
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:21,880
planner, and Carlos Garcia, our storm

357
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,560
water engineer.

358
00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:31,230
>> Or Shane Winters.

359
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,000
» So, my consultant We had a consultant

360
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,520
that was actually going to present and

361
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,960
then Carlos or they're on the way here.

362
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,280
You guys are done about a half hour

363
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,160
early so or ahead of schedule.

364
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,280
So, they are on their way.

365
00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:45,720
Um

366
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:46,600
So, this

367
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,680
>> you, Shane.

368
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:49,040
>> I will go ahead and I'll start.

369
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:49,440
>> Yeah.

370
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:50,680
>> You want to go?

371
00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:52,000
Um

372
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,280
So, the storm water master plan

373
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,200
um

374
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,320
Again, this is not my my presentation so

375
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,760
may fumble through a little bit. Yes.

376
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,400
Um

377
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,480
Every so often we we update our master

378
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,720
plan every five or typically five to 10

379
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,680
years on our storm water. Um and we

380
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:12,480
identify

381
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,040
some issues or system capacity um

382
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,520
problems throughout the system. We also

383
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,240
identify and pull out capital projects

384
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,640
or projects that were um as part of the

385
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,200
impact fee that we've completed and then

386
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,000
we update those um

387
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,880
uh again on that five to year 10 year

388
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:36,480
plan. In that modeling, we look at um

389
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:37,800
We look out on the horizon about 10

390
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,360
years on storm water.

391
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,640
Um we do a complete study taking city um

392
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,680
information, um the consultant's

393
00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:46,000
background,

394
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,240
and then we also look at um

395
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:49,800
new policies

396
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,760
that are implemented within storm water.

397
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,600
Often times we get um

398
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,480
new regulations from the state and

399
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,080
federal regulations that require us to

400
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,360
update our storm water policy. Our water

401
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,360
quality is a big um concern within storm

402
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,360
water. And then of course, um one of the

403
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,080
big ones is our impact fees. Um those

404
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,920
from the development side help pay or

405
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,680
fund for those future um development and

406
00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:16,720
their impact that they cause to our

407
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:17,839
system.

408
00:13:17,839 --> 00:13:20,000
Um and that's a big one that we looked

409
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,520
at this year in changing how

410
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,360
um we apply impact fees um

411
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,520
and how that works.

412
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,080
Um so a storm water

413
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,400
how how we deal with storm water is

414
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,720
there's two competing different ways

415
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,400
that we look at One is we can convey all

416
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:39,640
the water

417
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,120
and if we just say we're going to convey

418
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:42,760
it all, we're going to move all that

419
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,400
water, the pipes can get really big. Um

420
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:47,880
bigger than probably we could even

421
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,280
construct.

422
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,560
So the second component of that or

423
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,120
second idea is to reduce those pipe

424
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,120
sizes and that is by taking detaining

425
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,400
water. Um we detain water within in

426
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,800
various different types of systems. A

427
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,400
lot of those you see open basins. Um and

428
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,200
what we try to do is we take off this

429
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,960
really peak high flow. We store this

430
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,040
area that's under or above that curve.

431
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,800
We store that area and then we release

432
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,080
it back slowly back into the system so

433
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,840
that our pipes don't get extremely

434
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:20,440
large.

435
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:21,320
Um

436
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:22,840
and that's how to how we we manage our

437
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,440
storm water systems.

438
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,000
Um one of the other key components that

439
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,680
federally mandated now is water quality.

440
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,960
Often times that can get overlooked, but

441
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,520
that has over the last 10 years become a

442
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,320
high priority. Keeping our rivers, our

443
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,640
lakes clean um

444
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,040
through those and so these detention

445
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,920
systems often help with that water

446
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,680
quality. We actually we require it um as

447
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:51,760
part of

448
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,480
our policies.

449
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:54,240
Um

450
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:55,520
>> And how does it make it

451
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:56,400
>> What's that?

452
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,839
>> How do you make the

453
00:14:57,839 --> 00:14:59,920
water cleaner by detaining it?

454
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:00,960
>> So

455
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,960
we do that by what happens is is when a

456
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,360
storm first comes or storms come,

457
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,720
there's that first part of the storm

458
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,800
where we get really the oils, the sands,

459
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,440
the all that stuff that's really yes.

460
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,960
So by federal requirements ask at have

461
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,480
us or are required to actually keep that

462
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:21,880
on site.

463
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,560
They're they are to retain what we call

464
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,480
the 85th percentile. So, there's a

465
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,640
certain amount of water based on that

466
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,600
area that they need to retain on site,

467
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,120
keep that stuff on site. Like they can

468
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,080
include that within their storm drain

469
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,680
basins, they can include that within

470
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,080
like landscaping, um they include that

471
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,160
within swales, that first part of the

472
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,000
storm um retained on site that way then

473
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,000
it can be cleaned on the site. And that

474
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,280
does not get into the storm system or

475
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,800
into our lakes and rivers. And that's

476
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:50,720
how we deal with the water.

477
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,360
>> you saying that it settles at the bottom

478
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:53,760
of

479
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:54,080
>> Yeah.

480
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:54,440
>> know.

481
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:55,880
>> So, sometimes they'll put underground

482
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,360
chamber like we have underground

483
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,640
chambers that they'll store masses

484
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,080
amount of water. One of the chambers

485
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,120
will just be strictly for retention. It

486
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,360
actually It's It's built such that that

487
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,400
will fill up, it'll let that all that

488
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,120
those really water quality issues kind

489
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,720
of settle into that chamber, and then it

490
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,360
kind of spills over or it's contained in

491
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,320
that comes out, and then anything after

492
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,200
that comes out much much cleaner.

493
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:19,600
>> Oh.

494
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,680
>> That's one process. We have hydrodynamic

495
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,240
separators where these big huge manholes

496
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,800
actually work through through kind of a

497
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,760
big whirlpool and separate a lot of

498
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,280
oils, and then it'll cuz oils like to

499
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,440
raise, sit on top. They'll actually let

500
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,839
then under underneath it'll let water

501
00:16:37,839 --> 00:16:40,200
underneath through a a hole, and that

502
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,240
way then it clean we we can clean it s-

503
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,200
on the bottom but kind of middle. That

504
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,560
way we keep the oils on top, the sands

505
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,760
and the grease down on the bottom. And that's another way. So, there's

506
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,520
various different methods. Other areas

507
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,080
like curbs, we do curb cuts,

508
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:55,640
um

509
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,520
and you'll put them in swales. So, that

510
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,760
first part will actually will drain

511
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,600
through large long swales, and then

512
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,560
it'll come out at the other end.

513
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,600
Um and it'll let all that oil and and

514
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,720
sand and and those things settle into

515
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,240
that park strip before it comes out on

516
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,959
the other end clean, and then gets into

517
00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:12,040
our storm water system.

518
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:13,360
>> So, we have these magic whirlers

519
00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:13,920
underneath our streets?

520
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,079
>> Yeah, they're kind of hydrodynamic

521
00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:16,600
separators, yeah.

522
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:18,360
We have a big one on University Parkway.

523
00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:20,680
It's a It's part of a It was part of the

524
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,640
U dot that we and all to save on space,

525
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,240
well, we use those. They're expensive,

526
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,280
but they save space. So, we have all

527
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,440
these different methods that that we and

528
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,280
the developers and those that are

529
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:35,280
um

530
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,320
meeting those federal requirements um

531
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,320
have variety of options to use for that

532
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:40,840
water quality.

533
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,560
And and it's it's And then that way we

534
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,200
can clean those systems out and not have

535
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,600
issues in a in a water quality.

536
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,600
Um it it is one of the bigger issues

537
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,160
that we deal with within stormwater.

538
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,040
>> Chris, and you're referring to like streets.

539
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:57,400
>> Yeah.

540
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:58,320
>> Correct?

541
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,760
>> Street any any drainage.

542
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,080
So, any drainage off any property within

543
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:04,200
the city.

544
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,040
That's what we're talking about.

545
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,160
Now,

546
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:08,800
in

547
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,080
our residential, we don't require

548
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,640
detention. So, most of all residential

549
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,680
because it's impervious, meaning

550
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,200
um it just kind of infiltrates.

551
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,760
Um those areas we don't require.

552
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,760
Commercial, we do require detention. So,

553
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,920
residential single family, we do require

554
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,680
we don't require, but with mostly a

555
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,080
streets. Commercial, we do require the

556
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,400
detentions. But even in our streets,

557
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:33,920
even in the streets and everything that

558
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,640
we deal with within the city requires

559
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,240
those water quality features. So, when

560
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,560
we design our own systems, the streets,

561
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,520
they are required to have these water

562
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,680
quality some kind of water quality

563
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,600
system as part of that.

564
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,600
So, that's all water quality. All

565
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:48,720
water's treated.

566
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,360
>> So, go on.

567
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:52,800
So, you say, you know, how it's set up

568
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,040
leaves, you know, sand or the oil. So,

569
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:56,560
do we go through and clean that stuff up

570
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,200
afterwards? So, there's a whole process?

571
00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:58,720
>> Yep.

572
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,200
>> Is it like always

573
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:01,520
is it just systematic? Like we do this

574
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,200
once a month? Or is it like, oh, we had

575
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,400
a big storm where there's extra stuff?

576
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:05,400
Like what's the system?

577
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,120
>> It's systematic. So, there's federal

578
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:08,760
requirements

579
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,400
um that we as part of our It's called

580
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,240
the MS4. It's our permit. We are

581
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,120
actually permitted through the state on

582
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,240
our water quality and our storm water

583
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,480
which is then overseen by the federal

584
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,080
government. Um we are required by our

585
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,400
permit every 5 years to go through our

586
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,720
entire system and clean it. So that

587
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:26,880
means

588
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,960
20% yeah 20% of the year we go through

589
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,120
and we clean our our catch basins and

590
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:33,680
detention basins all that stuff.

591
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,320
Constantly we're out there. It's a year

592
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:37,160
round process.

593
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,040
>> I want to go on a cleanup trip.

594
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,280
>> You can come with us. We have a huge vac

595
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,560
truck. So yeah, you're more than

596
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,040
welcome. We love to our guys would love

597
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:45,680
to do that.

598
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,760
>> It's one of the vacuum trucks, isn't it?

599
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:48,720
Is it one of those vacuum trucks?

600
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,120
>> It's a big vacuum truck.

601
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:51,080
>> That goes down the manhole.

602
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:52,960
>> Goes down we'll put them down manholes.

603
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:53,920
Yeah.

604
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,000
We do TVing of of our pipes.

605
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:56,760
>> Go down the manhole.

606
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:57,560
>> Yeah.

607
00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:58,960
>> She wants to go down the manhole. I

608
00:19:58,960 --> 00:19:59,880
don't want to go down the manhole.

609
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:01,160
>> We have some pipes you could actually

610
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,960
walk down. So

611
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:04,400
Um they get very big.

612
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:05,600
>> Also with lights.

613
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:06,680
>> Um

614
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,240
this seems like one of the headline

615
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,920
policy changes here is the shift in how

616
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,520
we assess fees from just gross acre

617
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,640
charge to per ERU.

618
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:19,320
>> Yeah.

619
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:20,160
>> Um

620
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:21,280
>> I'll we'll get to that.

621
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:21,760
>> You'll get to that.

622
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,280
>> Now that our consultant is here I I want

623
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,160
to have a talk cuz we we did spend a lot

624
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,000
of time with that. That was an important

625
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,680
feature for us

626
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,280
that and and working with the

627
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,320
administration we felt that we needed to

628
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,240
change how we did it. We did it

629
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,200
typically on a just everybody pays on a

630
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:38,680
gross acre. So now we want to make it

631
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,120
more specific to to what your impact

632
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:43,600
was. How much impervious or sorry

633
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,520
pervious area hard surface you're

634
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,720
bringing in and so proportionately apply

635
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,200
that impact fee to that impact.

636
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,040
So I'll go over that they're here now.

637
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,360
I'll go ahead and turn the time over to

638
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:55,640
Carlos

639
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,800
and our consultant here to kind of walk

640
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:10,630
through the rest of this.

641
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,520
» Okay.

642
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,910
Maybe.

643
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,320
First slide my friend.

644
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:17,840
>> Yeah.

645
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,200
>> Okay, great.

646
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,280
Um

647
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,360
As mentioned, my name's Carlos Garcia,

648
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:24,320
engineer with uh public works storm

649
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,240
drain. And we'll just be covering an

650
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,560
update to the city storm drain master

651
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,560
plan. With that, we're just going to go

652
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:31,960
over some key findings, some

653
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,640
differences, uh

654
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,000
some recommended capital improvement

655
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,240
projects, and as you mentioned, the uh

656
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,680
proposed impact fee changes. With me

657
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,560
here is uh Kason Shultz with Hansen

658
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,800
Allen and Luce. He's been our consultant

659
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:45,560
uh

660
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,840
and been behind the technical analysis

661
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,320
on this update.

662
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,080
With that, um we'll just go walk through

663
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,560
the presentation. I understand you guys

664
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,200
might have the slides, so feel free to

665
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:56,600
stop us whenever. You might already be

666
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,360
familiar with it. Um feel free to stop

667
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:00,720
us with that. Um I'll just turn it over

668
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:01,640
to Kason.

669
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,120
>> Thank you. So, it looks like you might

670
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:04,360
have been a little bit through. Thank

671
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:05,640
you, Shane.

672
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,160
Um when we do this master planning, um

673
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,080
some of the key things that we're

674
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,440
looking for is just looking at the

675
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,480
system as a whole. A lot of times when

676
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,160
developments come in,

677
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:16,120
it's like they want to look in this

678
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:17,880
little box, but we have to look at the

679
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:18,920
system as a whole because we're

680
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,120
receiving water from upstream sometimes,

681
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:23,120
and so we have to take all of that

682
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:24,760
into account. And so, we want to size

683
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,800
these facilities based on

684
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,680
the best engineering practices that we

685
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,840
have. And so, we use modeling to do

686
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,960
that. We use um

687
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,160
technical data that's available online

688
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,320
through different sources like NOAA,

689
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,040
um soil surveys from the NRCS, and

690
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,720
things like that to base um the analysis

691
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,040
off of those things. And we try to plan

692
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,040
for cost-effective solutions. I I heard

693
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,120
when as I walked in, Shane was

694
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:49,600
describing there's many different ways

695
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,840
to manage storm water. And so, we try to

696
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,920
use all the tools in the tool belt to

697
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,840
get a cost-effective solution to manage

698
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,640
the storm water. There are federal

699
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,200
requirements, there's lots of different

700
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,040
ways that we can do that, but we do have

701
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,120
some things that we have to do

702
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:05,600
to be in compliance. We have our

703
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,000
engineering design standards that we

704
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,320
use, and then we also have projects that

705
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,400
have higher priority than others.

706
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,160
And then we'll have our impact fees that

707
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,400
help us to fund future growth. The the

708
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,080
infrastructure that's required to fund

709
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,000
future growth.

710
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,080
And so, here's and so like you're

711
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,080
talking a little bit about detention, so

712
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,680
I don't want to belabor this point, but

713
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,000
you have a couple different choices in

714
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,720
terms of are we going to When I say

715
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:37,080
convey, that's just think about a ditch, a pipe, something that water

716
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,880
flows through.

717
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,400
Um and then we have detention, which are

718
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,280
these kind of large areas where we

719
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,800
temporarily store water until there's

720
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,880
enough capacity in those conveyances

721
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,400
downstream to pass the water through.

722
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:51,800
And so, those are some effective ways

723
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,800
that we can kind of reduce pipe sizes

724
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,920
when used detention. So, if you don't

725
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,320
use detention throughout the whole city,

726
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,680
you would end up with huge pipes.

727
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,120
Maybe pipes that are too big to put in

728
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:03,440
the ground, and then you could you're

729
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:04,880
talking about a channel or a river or

730
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,360
something like that to handle it. And

731
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:08,760
so, we use these techniques to kind of

732
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,320
knock that peak flow rate down, and

733
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,200
that's what this figure

734
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,920
I guess you can't see it on the screen,

735
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,840
but that's what this does. This is

736
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,160
without detention, you get this big

737
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:18,920
this spike.

738
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,200
>> Yeah, Shane went over all this for us.

739
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:21,680
>> Okay.

740
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:22,920
>> We're on top of that.

741
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:23,880
>> Okay.

742
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,320
So, here's some of the key differences.

743
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,120
We We went We had some stuff to work

744
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:29,880
with to begin with. You had a prior

745
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,400
master plan.

746
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,800
We We increased the resolution of our

747
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,360
drainage basins. That just means we cut

748
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:37,520
them up into smaller pieces. I'll kind

749
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,000
of explain why later. We have um we

750
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,120
defined some directly connected

751
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:45,280
impervious versus unconnected impervious

752
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,160
areas, and so that's that's the

753
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,320
difference between like a driveway that

754
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,480
goes directly into a street right into a

755
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,520
drainage catch basin versus say a patio

756
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,160
in your backyard that drains off into

757
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,000
the grass. Those are two different

758
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,480
things when we're modeling that kind of

759
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,560
thing.

760
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,720
We did a city-specific analysis to

761
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,720
define impervious surface throughout the

762
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,240
entire city.

763
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,440
And then we had a few different projects

764
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,520
that we did that were a little different

765
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,200
than last time to manage the storm

766
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,040
water.

767
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,440
So, when I'm talking about resolution,

768
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,280
this is this is just a depiction of what

769
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,200
I'm trying to say is like

770
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,920
the the picture on the left, you can

771
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,080
tell that it's like a lake and a canoe

772
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,760
and a mountain in the background, but

773
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,800
it's a little fuzzy, right? There's bigger pixels.

774
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,880
And then when we get more and more small pixels, we can get better

775
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,760
resolution. And it's much the same with

776
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,600
our drainage basins.

777
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,120
There's a drainage basin that could um

778
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,520
define what the Provo River drains,

779
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,560
right? And then there's a basin that

780
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,920
could define what this parking lot

781
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,480
drains. And so, you have to create a a

782
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:49,960
balance of that when you're doing a

783
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,520
citywide master plan to kind of come up

784
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,680
with that, how much resolution do we

785
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,560
want? Right? Cuz there can be overkill.

786
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,240
There can be too low resolution, so we

787
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,680
want to try to uh meet

788
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,030
a good kind of um

789
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,640
We usually like to have about 10 to 30

790
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:08,800
acres.

791
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,760
That gives us what we found over the

792
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,520
years, that's kind of a good sweet spot

793
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,320
to be in.

794
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,560
And so, here's just an example.

795
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,040
Uh the red outline was a sub-basin, a

796
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,760
drainage basin from the prior master

797
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,400
plan, and then we split it up into 1 2 3

798
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,000
4 5 6 7 different basins. And basically,

799
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,480
what that allows for how for this to do

800
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,720
is if all the water's coming down and

801
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,000
it's coming down to this point right

802
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,160
here,

803
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,240
um

804
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,080
and if I just had this one sub-basin, I

805
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,840
would have one output from the model. I

806
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:39,920
would have one of those spiky

807
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,440
hydrographs that you saw, one peak flow

808
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,120
rate, one volume.

809
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:46,440
And so, if I have a bunch of pipes that

810
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:47,800
are draining this and it's all coming

811
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,680
down into here,

812
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,320
I don't know what the flow rate is right

813
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:52,640
there.

814
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,040
And so, that's the reason why you would

815
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,800
split it up is that I can go, "Okay,

816
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,880
well, I want to analyze this system a

817
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,360
little bit, too, as opposed to just

818
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:01,040
worrying about only the trunk line

819
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,960
that's kind of down here at the bottom."

820
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,360
And so we just refined it a little bit.

821
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:05,880
And that's common in storm water master

822
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:06,800
planning.

823
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,440
We take our first cut, maybe it's a

824
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,040
little bit rough, and then as we go, we

825
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,520
can kind of refine it down and and come

826
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,200
up with more and more refined answers

827
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,520
and solutions and we can look at more

828
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,920
stuff in more detail as we go.

829
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,080
Okay, this is a graphic that is

830
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,440
trying to explain what I was um talking

831
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,200
about earlier. There's directly

832
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,880
connected impervious area and there's

833
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,360
unconnected impervious area. And so,

834
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:33,040
from this graphic, you can kind of see I

835
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,000
have this driveway and it slopes down to

836
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,320
the street and there's catch basin. If

837
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,440
there is If there is nothing in between

838
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,640
that, we call that directly connected.

839
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,120
There's a straight path. That water

840
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:44,480
falls into the driveway and goes right

841
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,480
into the catch basin, right into the

842
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,760
storm drain pipe, right?

843
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,600
But there's also unconnected. This roof

844
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,960
right here in this graphic drains down

845
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,560
to this downspout and then it goes into

846
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,080
the grass.

847
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,560
And so the response of that in in from a

848
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,320
hydrology perspective is different.

849
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:03,800
That's that hydrograph that we showed

850
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,560
earlier, that that that one that's got a

851
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,600
big peak on it.

852
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:08,920
That that would be mostly from your

853
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,280
directly connected. It's going to come

854
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,080
really fast. It's going to come fast and

855
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,760
hard. But if it has to go over a big

856
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,160
pervious surface like this, some of that

857
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,560
water's going to seep down into the

858
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,240
ground. We're not going to get it all,

859
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,240
right?

860
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,480
And so,

861
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,040
distinguishing between the two of those

862
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,720
is really important in storm water

863
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,800
master planning because if we assume

864
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,080
it's all going to just run off like

865
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,320
this, we're probably going to size our

866
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:30,920
pipes too big.

867
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,240
And and vice versa. If there's

868
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,880
more of this than there actually is,

869
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,600
then maybe we're going to undersize

870
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,400
stuff. So we have to we have to kind of

871
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:39,840
distinguish that and and get that

872
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,560
balance going.

873
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:43,920
And so, one of the things that's really

874
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,520
cool that's that's

875
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,240
um um, coming with the technology that

876
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,920
we have and the computing power that

877
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,080
we've got and the, um,

878
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,040
AI and machine learning, all these kinds

879
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,720
of things, is the ability for the

880
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,560
computer to process that for us.

881
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,560
And so, we did this impervious surface

882
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,680
delineation using those concepts where,

883
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,960
essentially, you train the computer

884
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,880
to be able to correctly identify

885
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,400
the street or a roof or a sidewalk.

886
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,560
And so, you give it you give it 30, 40,

887
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,560
50 examples where you just go into the

888
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,400
map and you draw a little box around it

889
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,200
and you say, "This is a pavement.

890
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,320
This is a driveway. This is a green This

891
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,600
is a brown roof. This is a white roof."

892
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,560
So, you go through and you train it

893
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,480
for certain areas of the city and then

894
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,720
you and then you say, "Take all this

895
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,840
information and now go out and go do the

896
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,200
whole city.

897
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:41,880
Go and do what I've just told you

898
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,640
everywhere. Go and identify all the

899
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:44,960
pavement,

900
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,040
all the street, you know, all the

901
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,360
driveways, all the white roofs, brown

902
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,160
roofs and everything." And then it can

903
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,960
come back and create this sort of data

904
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,280
that can be used for lots of different

905
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:57,880
things, um,

906
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,640
and specifically for stormwater master

907
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,560
planning it's really useful because the

908
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,400
amount of runoff we get is it's not 100%

909
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,880
just the pavement that creates all the

910
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,920
runoff, but it's a lot of it. And so,

911
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,400
this is really important for stormwater

912
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,720
master planning and doing it this way

913
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,000
allows you to have a city-specific

914
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,840
Cuz there's lots of, you know, back in

915
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,360
the '60s, '70s, '80s, they created these

916
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,720
really nice tables that had kind of some

917
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,880
typicals for this. Like, the residential

918
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,840
neighborhood is 25% impervious or

919
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,480
commercial is

920
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,360
85% and they were basing that off of

921
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,120
just typicals where someone went into a

922
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:37,760
map and actually hand-digitized this

923
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:38,760
stuff.

924
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,000
They said, "These are These are around

925
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,520
what it is usually."

926
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,040
But, this allows you to have a city

927
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:45,560
specific

928
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,200
impervious delineation and it helps us

929
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,640
to again refine what we've already done

930
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,880
in the past.

931
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,200
And then I don't know, is there a way

932
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:53,880
for me to

933
00:30:53,880 --> 00:31:01,190
>> I attached the maps PDFs to this.

934
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,160
» I don't think

935
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:11,990
No, that was uploaded as an item.

936
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,080
» So we we took all this information and

937
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,720
we we created a model where and the

938
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,480
parts of that model are the hydrology

939
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,320
side and then there's also the hydraulic

940
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,960
side. So the hydrology is what creates

941
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,320
those hydrographs or tells you what the

942
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,760
runoff is from these drainage basins

943
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,480
that we looked at before. And then

944
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,720
they'll flow into the pipes and then

945
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,080
inside the pipes we do our hydraulic

946
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,120
calculations. So

947
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:37,440
how much water can flow through that

948
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:38,480
pipe?

949
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,240
And the slope, the material of the pipe,

950
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,200
all that stuff matters and it goes into

951
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,520
the model

952
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,520
and then we're able to estimate whether

953
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,120
the pipe handle all the water that is

954
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,720
anticipated to go through it, right? And

955
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,840
if it can't, in the model it shows the

956
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,000
water coming up out of the manhole.

957
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,040
Says, "Oh, I'm flooding here." You would

958
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,320
expect to see a puddle in the road right

959
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,280
here because the pipe is not big enough

960
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,760
for how much drainage is coming to it.

961
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,240
And so that's that was the intent of

962
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,560
these PDF maps and I apologize.

963
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,800
>> These maps

964
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:15,880
>> Yep.

965
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,400
Yeah.

966
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:18,320
I believe so.

967
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,080
>> It was a link

968
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,720
in the materials.

969
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:22,960
>> Yeah, if you can just show that the

970
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,070
first page.

971
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,840
Okay, this isn't exactly but that's

972
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,080
okay.

973
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,760
So this this is kind of a schematic of

974
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,680
the whole city. You can see

975
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,560
what we have is a bunch of pipes. We

976
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,000
have detention ponds, that's what these

977
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,040
hatched areas are throughout the city.

978
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:42,760
And basically we have a model that shows

979
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,400
like and these are these catch basins.

980
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,520
You can see these light blue lines.

981
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,080
And and basically we feed that into

982
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,640
these models and it tells us, okay,

983
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,320
where where are we flooding?

984
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,120
How bad are we flooding? That helps us

985
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,760
to prioritize.

986
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,360
Not only do we do that, but we also meet

987
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,760
with Shane and Carlos,

988
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,320
others, Scott. And we go through and we

989
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:07,920
say, "The model says that there's

990
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,240
flooding right here. Have you seen

991
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,120
flooding right here?"

992
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,840
And they'll say, "Yeah, we see flooding

993
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,200
right there." We say, "Great. The model

994
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:17,440
and

995
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,320
the evidence from the city says there is

996
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:20,960
a problem here.

997
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:22,280
So, let's put that on our capital

998
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,720
improvement plan."

999
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,440
There's other times where you do the

1000
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,840
best you can with all this data,

1001
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,080
but we have to recognize that there's

1002
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,680
uncertainty in these calculations

1003
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,240
and the data that's behind it. You can

1004
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:34,520
say, "Okay,

1005
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:35,640
do you see flooding here?" And they

1006
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,440
might say, "No, haven't seen flooding

1007
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,440
there." So, then what we like to do is

1008
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,160
we put that on a watch list. We say,

1009
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:42,120
"Hey,

1010
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,520
we want your crews to kind of watch this

1011
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,520
area in big storms and see if they see

1012
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,920
flooding. Maybe they just hadn't noticed

1013
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,560
it before,

1014
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:50,800
but

1015
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,120
we don't want you to spend good money

1016
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:54,320
trying to fix something that's not

1017
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,920
actually a problem,

1018
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,000
right?

1019
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,080
And so, that that's that's the intent of

1020
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,160
this. And these maps kind of show like

1021
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,080
these are flow rates and capacities and

1022
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,120
stuff like that based on our hydraulic

1023
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,560
calculating uh not hydraulic analysis.

1024
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,639
And so, I think

1025
00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:14,520
>> We can go back to the PowerPoint slide.

1026
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:15,240
Thank you so

1027
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:16,000
>> Can I ask you a quick question?

1028
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:16,840
>> Yeah, of course.

1029
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,480
>> As you went through that, did you have

1030
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,520
any Were you able to point out areas of

1031
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,440
concern where you thought, "Oh my

1032
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,280
goodness, we're really short here and

1033
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:24,800
there and

1034
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,720
>> Yes. Yes. And so the model will kind of with the

1035
00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:31,360
model we you of

1036
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,080
identify how bad is our flooding

1037
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:35,840
per the model. And then we'd like to

1038
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,120
confirm that with Shane and his staff to

1039
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,440
say, "Yes, this definitely is an area of

1040
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,120
concern. Work through some of those."

1041
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,760
>> I think when we started doing that

1042
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,360
higher resolution, yeah, we started to

1043
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,080
see things that both of you noticed and

1044
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,440
things that we didn't notice. It started

1045
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,679
from our old plan that this would

1046
00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:58,760
started to seem to have more line up

1047
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,000
with really what was going on. So, it it

1048
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,280
did change our plan a little

1049
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,480
>> It's great.

1050
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,910
>> Okay.

1051
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,760
» Uh it's not letting me advance here.

1052
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,480
>> Yeah, try to pull them out.

1053
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,120
If you're lucky, we can pull it up right

1054
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,960
now to show it does have kind of the

1055
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,600
areas of the city that, "Hey, this is

1056
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,800
where you watch out for."

1057
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,120
>> No, I I don't want to slow you down. Go

1058
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,360
ahead and do your presentation. I was

1059
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,240
just I was just assuming that'd be the

1060
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:26,680
case. It's good to hear.

1061
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,070
>> Yeah.

1062
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,920
» Did we get the plan up? There you go.

1063
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,960
>> Okay, perfect. So, here's kind of just a

1064
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,560
summary of what we found as we went

1065
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,280
through. So, we went through, we tried

1066
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,080
to again align our projects that we're

1067
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,440
going to recommend with known problems

1068
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:44,800
and issues.

1069
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,720
And that total price tag came out to

1070
00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:51,200
76.8 million, okay? So, don't fall out

1071
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:52,800
of your chair. You don't have to do all

1072
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,640
of those projects right now. Got to

1073
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,080
prioritize those and kind of you eat the

1074
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,360
elephant one bite at a time, right?

1075
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:00,840
So, that that was the summary of those

1076
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,320
findings. And then 25.8 of that was

1077
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,360
impact eligible. I mean, a lot of those

1078
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,680
are future projects that

1079
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,000
there's nothing there right now. And so,

1080
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,280
25.8 million is what we um estimated for

1081
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,680
impact the eligibility.

1082
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,240
Um we again, we used detention to reduce

1083
00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:21,320
the flows when feasible,

1084
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,360
but sometimes you're in a tight urban

1085
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,000
corridor and detention's not feasible.

1086
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,760
And so, sometimes you just have to the

1087
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,200
pipe or run a parallel pipe so that you

1088
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,400
can get all that water through there

1089
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,000
without flooding.

1090
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,240
Um

1091
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:36,280
Okay.

1092
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,920
Any Any questions on that modeling and

1093
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,200
>> Right here.

1094
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:41,160
>> Perfect.

1095
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,600
Um I'm going to talk just a little bit

1096
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,680
about impact fees. So, impact fees, just

1097
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,760
to simply define it, it's a one-time fee

1098
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,520
that's charged for new development to

1099
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,480
that's that's necessary to service that

1100
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,080
future growth.

1101
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,680
You can't You can't include maintenance,

1102
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,560
O&M, operations and maintenance in that.

1103
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,920
It's just to put that infrastructure in

1104
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,840
the ground that the develop the future

1105
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,880
development is going to require. Okay?

1106
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,320
Um and so, from a legal and planning

1107
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,560
framework, these master plans that we

1108
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,800
do, they're important because they give

1109
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,480
a baseline for the sizings that we

1110
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,040
provide. If someone comes to me and

1111
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,080
says, "There's no way I need a 36 right

1112
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,840
there." Say, "Well, our We did a master

1113
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,120
plan and the calculations that were done

1114
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,400
yielded 36-in drain pipe. And we can

1115
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,400
take a closer look, but that's what it was. This was the

1116
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,200
technical basis for that, right? That's

1117
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,360
really important. You don't want to have

1118
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,000
someone question me

1119
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,240
and they just say, "Well,

1120
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:40,840
you know, uh

1121
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,600
Scott and you know, the storm drain

1122
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,240
department says he thinks a 36-in is

1123
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:46,240
great." That's That's not good

1124
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:48,520
reasoning. Even though Scott's smart,

1125
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,680
he's a great guy, he probably does He

1126
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,800
probably could estimate it pretty well,

1127
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,200
but it doesn't have that technical basis

1128
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,000
right?

1129
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,200
So, you do that so you can have that

1130
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,560
um

1131
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,790
for these impact fees.

1132
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,120
Now Now I want to talk to you a little

1133
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:05,680
bit about a couple of different approach

1134
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,680
here. Um I want to talk to you about two

1135
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,080
different approaches that I've seen for

1136
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,160
stormwater impact fee assessments, okay?

1137
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,640
One of them is to use a gross acreage

1138
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,760
approach, and that is currently what

1139
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,320
Provo City does.

1140
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,800
Meaning, if an acre if a 5-acre

1141
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,880
development comes in,

1142
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,480
doesn't matter how much impervious area,

1143
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,000
it doesn't matter what they're doing,

1144
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,360
they will be assessed a certain impact

1145
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,080
fee.

1146
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,920
Um and then there are other cities that

1147
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,120
I've done work for that use a stormwater

1148
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,480
ERU.

1149
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,040
An ERU is something that you've probably

1150
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,680
heard of being on a city council, but

1151
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,840
I'll explain it. It's It's a way for you

1152
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,520
to take one It's It's a way for you to

1153
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,000
basically say, "What is an equivalent to

1154
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,760
a residential connection, whether it's

1155
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,880
commercial, industrial? How can I make

1156
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,640
these things equivalent to each other?"

1157
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,680
Stands for equivalent residential unit.

1158
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,920
And so on a stormwater side, a lot of

1159
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,440
cities will use this for assessing their

1160
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,560
impact fees. And so I kind of just came

1161
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,800
up with this simple graphic to to

1162
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,520
illustrate the point of the difference

1163
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,120
between the two. If you have developer

1164
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:14,640
A, let's say they're going to be a

1165
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,400
low-impact use, they've got 5 acres,

1166
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:18,640
they're going to have a small parking

1167
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,280
lot, maybe it's like uh strawberry stand

1168
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,120
or something like that, right? Small

1169
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:25,640
parking lot, they're going to use most

1170
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,400
of the land to grow crops.

1171
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,640
And they come into the city and they

1172
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:31,800
say, "Okay, we're going to do this." And

1173
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,520
the city says, "Okay, I'm doing gross

1174
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,400
acreage,

1175
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,520
$40,000 for your impact fee, okay?"

1176
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,240
Now the other one, if it's a high use,

1177
00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:45,840
big commercial um development, 5 acres,

1178
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,280
they're 90% of it's paved, you can

1179
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,640
imagine how much more runoff

1180
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,080
um developer B is going to generate

1181
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,080
close to developer A.

1182
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,320
And so if you use the storm in the in

1183
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,080
the gross acreage approach, they pay the

1184
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,280
exact same.

1185
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,480
In this other approach, stormwater ERU,

1186
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,440
you basically take that You remember

1187
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,400
that uh impervious surface delineation I

1188
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,640
was talking about throughout the city.

1189
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,760
We took that and we took a bunch of

1190
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,160
residential

1191
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:15,240
uh

1192
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:16,760
lots.

1193
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,120
And we we basically

1194
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,960
said, "What is the average residential

1195
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,040
um impervious area there based on that

1196
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,840
data?" So, we had that data and we came

1197
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:29,400
it was like I can't remember the exact

1198
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,760
number. It's like 3,200 sq ft

1199
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,400
was was the number

1200
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:36,960
or around there.

1201
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,400
And so, basically, when I did the idea

1202
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,360
behind this stormwater ERU is that you

1203
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,360
take how much impervious surface they

1204
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:44,760
have,

1205
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,920
let's say it's three times that just for

1206
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:51,120
easy math, three times the 3,200.

1207
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,120
Well, then they would be three ERUs and

1208
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,760
they would pay that much.

1209
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:57,920
Um

1210
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,280
and so, you you can you can use that

1211
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,800
data as they're coming in cuz a lot of

1212
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,880
these when these developments come in,

1213
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,080
residential ones will fall under certain

1214
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,400
lot sizes and they would basically be

1215
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,400
the average of those lot sizes. But, if

1216
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,320
it's a commercial, on their plans, it's

1217
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,280
going to show how much impervious or

1218
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,840
hardscape on the plans. So, they can be

1219
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:19,240
assessed at that time based on that

1220
00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:20,360
value.

1221
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,960
So, assessing on the gross acreage is

1222
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,720
way easier, right?

1223
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:27,520
It just is what it is. But, there is

1224
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,280
this maybe perceived unfairness

1225
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,840
from a stormwater perspective of having

1226
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,320
a gross acreage approach because of Now,

1227
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,760
these are showing two extremes, right?

1228
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:39,880
But,

1229
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,720
certainly, um developer B their their

1230
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:46,440
proposed development would generate more

1231
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,320
than what A does. And so, the idea

1232
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:49,720
behind

1233
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:53,480
the ERU is that it kind of uh

1234
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,910
levels that playing field a little.

1235
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,560
Any questions on that? Yeah.

1236
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,040
>> Have we looked at this as far as our

1237
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,760
system? Have we looked at this as far as

1238
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,160
how's this going to change revenue? And

1239
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,520
So, because if

1240
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,240
for example, our citizens can serve

1241
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:11,520
water, which is awesome, but it's

1242
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,320
greatly affected our water revenue. So,

1243
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:14,640
we have to raise prices because they're

1244
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:15,640
conserving water.

1245
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:16,040
>> Yeah.

1246
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,440
>> I mean, it How does this

1247
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,960
>> Yeah, it's like the laws of unintended

1248
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,680
consequences, right?

1249
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,160
That that definitely has happened. And

1250
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,760
with this,

1251
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,760
um the intent is that you would raise

1252
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,800
the exact same amount of money.

1253
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,880
However, with the um with the gross

1254
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:36,760
acreage approach,

1255
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,200
um

1256
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:39,920
there's probably

1257
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,080
I would say there's probably less um

1258
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,880
assumptions that go into it, if that

1259
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,600
makes sense. The other side, there's a

1260
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,240
little bit more on the assumption side

1261
00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:51,480
of what do we think is going to come in.

1262
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,960
But, that being said, it it it it is it

1263
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,560
is more fair across the board.

1264
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:57,320
>> Totally.

1265
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,640
>> Um and you were best at those things.

1266
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,920
>> So, I think it's a it's fairness, I

1267
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,080
think. Yes, I think it puts the that

1268
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,200
impact or the onus more on those that

1269
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:09,400
are bringing in more.

1270
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:09,960
>> Which is great.

1271
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:10,520
>> pervious.

1272
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:11,280
>> Yeah.

1273
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,480
>> One of the If you If you want to call it

1274
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,080
a negative, when you do gross acreage,

1275
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,080
you bring you get a pretty consistent

1276
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,880
impact fee

1277
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,920
every year, right? Just because there's

1278
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,840
so much development comes in, it doesn't

1279
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,440
matter what it is, it comes in that.

1280
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,360
We can ebb and flow quite a bit if we're going cuz this is again to

1281
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:31,520
really put it more heavily on

1282
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,280
commercial, right? Commercial going

1283
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,040
because they create much more pervious.

1284
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,000
So, if commercial is, you know, not

1285
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,920
doing much or not developing much, and

1286
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,560
it's more residential, then yeah, we

1287
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,600
could bring in less impact in dollars.

1288
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,880
Earlier, that would then sort of be

1289
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,960
normal, right? We'll get the same amount

1290
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:50,680
of dollars,

1291
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:51,560
>> It's going to be the same thing here.

1292
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,400
>> it's going to ebb and flow pretty

1293
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:54,880
substantial.

1294
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:55,600
Um

1295
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,240
Whereas, this other one we do, and we've

1296
00:43:57,240 --> 00:43:59,440
noticed it pretty consistent every year,

1297
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:00,800
we get kind of the same amount of money.

1298
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,080
>> So, the ebb and flow would be hard on

1299
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:02,960
your budget?

1300
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,920
>> It could be, especially if you have like

1301
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,360
projects. It could It's just planning's

1302
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,120
going to have to be a little bit

1303
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:09,840
>> More for it.

1304
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,440
>> more right for the bigger projects to

1305
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,440
make those kind of layout.

1306
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,440
>> Councilor Whitlock.

1307
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,360
>> I used to How much more into this you

1308
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:20,480
know you think we're going to get into?

1309
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,440
That is not a specific question but

1310
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:23,600
>> Um

1311
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,480
Not No, I was just going to show the

1312
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,560
calculation of that. So, if you have a

1313
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:27,840
specific

1314
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,560
>> Well, that's actually related to this.

1315
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:30,480
Maybe we can look at that balance.

1316
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,480
>> We have about 5 more minutes.

1317
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,320
>> Um the one other thing I'll say is that

1318
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:36,760
the city actually is planning on

1319
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,960
updating impact fees every year on an

1320
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,400
annual basis, which actually is super

1321
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,200
helpful because

1322
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,880
then you're not [clears throat]

1323
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,160
you're not making a big adjustment

1324
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,800
in 5 to 8 years when that's good.

1325
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,280
Typically cities have kind of done that

1326
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,120
and it and it creates a shock wave in

1327
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,400
the whole community of like, "Oh, we

1328
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:56,680
hadn't planned on that big of an

1329
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,360
increase when we were doing our

1330
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,240
developments." And so, if they can be

1331
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:02,600
just small little pieces at a time every

1332
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,400
year, you're going to be much more

1333
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,270
likely to collect the right amount.

1334
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,080
So, this is just kind of just

1335
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,000
boiling it down into the simplest terms

1336
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,320
as as we can here. Here Here was our

1337
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:21,120
total, 28 and a half 28 25.8 million.

1338
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,520
Um we can associate some of the planning

1339
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,360
from the master plan into the impact fee

1340
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,480
as well. You can collect for that.

1341
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:29,680
And then

1342
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,160
we estimated based on our data that we

1343
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,880
have 17,580

1344
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,880
storm water ERUs remaining to meet the

1345
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,320
balance. So, that's taking all the

1346
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:40,720
remaining areas of Provo that are

1347
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:43,120
expected to be developed. That's lining

1348
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,160
them up with the

1349
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,760
future planning and zoning data.

1350
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,360
And then that's estimating how much

1351
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,040
impervious area we think we're going to

1352
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,400
get

1353
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,160
and taking that average number and

1354
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:55,880
estimating how much more we think we

1355
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,360
have.

1356
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,880
And so, basically

1357
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:01,360
you you add all that together and you

1358
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,520
get this number here divided by the

1359
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,880
total number of remaining ERUs and then

1360
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,280
that's how much you collect per ERU.

1361
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:11,840
So again, if a commercial comes in and

1362
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,400
they're 10 ERUs, they're going to pay 10

1363
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:18,390
times they're going to pay $14,000.

1364
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:19,520
» So these are these are some of my

1365
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,440
questions. One one thing is that like I

1366
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,520
couldn't tell from this slide if this

1367
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:26,960
is actually

1368
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,520
because you you're basically determining

1369
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,400
the the ERU fee based on the amount of

1370
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,400
remaining

1371
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,520
ERUs to be developed and not normalizing

1372
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,920
to like current housing costs. I'm it's

1373
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:39,440
hard to tell if this is like an actual

1374
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,240
fee increase or not for like an average

1375
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:44,040
you know, single-family home being

1376
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,280
constructed. Is that that?

1377
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,600
>> So if you kind of you and I agree with

1378
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,120
you, it's it's a little bit hard to

1379
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,160
tell. Right now, I think I have one more

1380
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:54,880
slide that shows what we're

1381
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,520
The current fee is $8,000 or $8,200

1382
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,760
per gross acre and this one is the

1383
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,720
almost 1,500.

1384
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:07,640
So if you assume

1385
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,280
>> eighth-acre lots.

1386
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,760
>> Yeah.

1387
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:12,960
Then it then it is going to be slightly

1388
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:14,760
>> a slight fee increase then probably?

1389
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,560
>> slightly higher if you go eighth acre.

1390
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:18,960
And so it's kind of hard because there

1391
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,720
is a spectrum of possibilities, right?

1392
00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:22,840
So

1393
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,240
um

1394
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:27,560
but it it does kind of all make it go

1395
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,960
back to the singular unit

1396
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,160
that kind of

1397
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:32,960
in in theory

1398
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,080
levels the playing field for everybody.

1399
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:42,760
>> The other question I have is um so the four this four 1,477 fee assumes

1400
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,560
17,580

1401
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:45,920
more

1402
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,880
units? Yes. What's that number based on?

1403
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,920
>> So that's based on if I take all the

1404
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,160
remaining areas to be developed

1405
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,720
and I overlay my planning and zoning on

1406
00:47:57,720 --> 00:47:59,920
top of that with the typicals that I

1407
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:02,880
have seen in the city already.

1408
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,520
It it it it basically takes that data

1409
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,160
and coalesces that together. So, this is the estimate that I'm going to

1410
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:09,600
give you guys.

1411
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,600
>> So, what happens if development's 30%

1412
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,360
less than expected or 30% more based on

1413
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,000
exogenous variable or that like things

1414
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,920
outside of those things you looked at?

1415
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:19,880
>> So, so it's based off the general plan

1416
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:20,760
you adopted.

1417
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:21,040
>> Yeah.

1418
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,080
>> And if you stick with it, we make it. If

1419
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:24,400
you change it, then we should change

1420
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,040
this. So,

1421
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:27,600
that's what it's based off the general

1422
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,640
>> So, couple of that but isn't it time

1423
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,320
sensitive to some degree, too?

1424
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:32,920
>> No, because if you stick with the

1425
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,680
general plan for eternity, our plan will

1426
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,400
work out great. If you decide to change

1427
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,720
it in 5 years, we'll update our plan to

1428
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:41,520
match that.

1429
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:42,200
>> Okay.

1430
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,120
>> So, I'll update impact fees every year

1431
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:46,200
also that satisfies me.

1432
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:47,640
>> And that's what I was going to say. With

1433
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,160
it with us doing it every year now, this

1434
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,920
will catch those those changes as they

1435
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:53,720
happen.

1436
00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:56,680
>> So, if there's changes on

1437
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,280
>> We'll be able to update that 17 to

1438
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,480
whatever it needs to be

1439
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:01,000
at the time.

1440
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,320
>> So, you're a consultant that does this

1441
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,160
at other cities, correct? So, what last

1442
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,560
question I have is like as have you made

1443
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,440
done Have you worked with other cities

1444
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,640
to transition from kind of a gross acre

1445
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,480
approach to this um

1446
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,360
ERU approach?

1447
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,920
>> Um I have I don't know that I've done a

1448
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:23,240
specific gross to ERU. This um

1449
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:25,120
the staff asked me what I think

1450
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:26,680
percentage wise. I do a lot of these

1451
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:27,440
throughout

1452
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:28,600
>> Yeah.

1453
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,520
>> what percentage of ERU versus gross

1454
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:36,200
acreage. And my my gut is 70% ERU, 30%

1455
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:37,640
gross acreage.

1456
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,680
>> The reason why I asked is um I'm curious

1457
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,120
maybe either from your own experience or

1458
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:44,520
you research you've done like does this

1459
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,000
create any incentive changes? Like do

1460
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,280
you see

1461
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,160
actually like or is it not a big enough

1462
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,960
change in cost to really change behavior and

1463
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:54,880
margins.

1464
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,320
>> I don't know that I've like seen

1465
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,960
a paper that's said anything about that.

1466
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,800
My gut would tell me it does.

1467
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,280
So, one example is

1468
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,440
with the bench farms, they're doing 100%

1469
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,520
retention. So, they're under this plan

1470
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,960
they would pay zero

1471
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,640
impact fees because it was zero

1472
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:16,600
incentive from the city.

1473
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,280
>> So, it incentivizes retention.

1474
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,080
>> So, people will

1475
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:21,680
have an opportunity to reduce that

1476
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,720
number by reducing

1477
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:27,320
their So, now they have a

1478
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:28,520
Before there was no incentive, it

1479
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:29,800
wouldn't change what you got because you

1480
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:30,280
paid for it.

1481
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:31,680
>> So, this allows them not that they're

1482
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:33,480
going to, not that we probably would see

1483
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,400
a lot of it, but now they have the

1484
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,600
opportunity to be creative.

1485
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,040
>> All else being equal, does the city

1486
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,200
prefer retention?

1487
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,160
>> Um yes and no. I I'd say retention is

1488
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,440
generally always bad.

1489
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,710
>> [laughter]

1490
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:50,960
» You you want some release, but the more

1491
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,280
they hold, the more they get in. The

1492
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,480
problem with retention

1493
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,080
is it gets a swampy, you get cattails,

1494
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,440
you get things you don't like. So,

1495
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,080
all this is not going to be that big of

1496
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:03,480
a deal.

1497
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,720
>> Does it help the aquifer to right?

1498
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:07,080
>> Yeah, so

1499
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:11,640
federal and state requirements, they try to get it more back to what the

1500
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,560
natural state was.

1501
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,600
Um so, yes, some retention we want,

1502
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,240
right? That helps infiltrate, it keeps

1503
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:21,440
the moisture typically where it needs to

1504
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,480
be, but not all of it because a lot of

1505
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,520
that stuff typically would flow to

1506
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,400
rivers, lakes, etc. We do want a lot of

1507
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,720
that. There was recent legislation on

1508
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:33,040
trying to change the amount of

1509
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:33,960
retention, right?

1510
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,160
>> to the to the almost unlimited because

1511
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,920
we do want that stuff to flow

1512
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:40,000
to through the rivers, through the

1513
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,480
lakes, through the through the various

1514
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,040
lakes to help feed them. So,

1515
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:48,430
it it absolutely works.

1516
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,920
» You're saying this ERU thing is

1517
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,480
the consultant's recommendation.

1518
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:54,960
Right?

1519
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,960
>> Well,

1520
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:58,760
I'm going to say I'd vote he came in

1521
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,800
initially with a plan to keep it the

1522
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,280
same way.

1523
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,040
We have pushed him

1524
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,400
I have pushed him to do the ERU thing.

1525
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,480
>> You have pushed him. What about Shane?

1526
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:09,320
>> Oh,

1527
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,920
from my standpoint, we were looking at

1528
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,880
it it it

1529
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,320
it's about what we had to bring in. We

1530
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:17,400
have

1531
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:18,280
um

1532
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,720
from our last master plan, we had

1533
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:22,440
basically

1534
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:23,560
um

1535
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,640
finished all the impact fee eligible

1536
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,720
projects on our plan. That was one of

1537
00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:30,200
the drivers that we needed to get this

1538
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,640
up big plan updated because we had

1539
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,080
finished all [snorts] projects that were

1540
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:36,960
impact fee eligible.

1541
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:38,320
That's not to say we still had a lot of

1542
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:39,840
capital projects that we were needing to

1543
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,640
do, but they were not impact fee

1544
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:42,960
eligible.

1545
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,000
>> Um this often times can be a big part of

1546
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,320
our storm water budget to help pay for

1547
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,600
that infrastructure. Not all of it, but

1548
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,960
a a substantial portion of it. Um so

1549
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:55,720
initially as far as storm water meter

1550
00:52:55,720 --> 00:52:57,400
was concerned for me,

1551
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,160
as as our our capital project budgets,

1552
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,720
if we get too much of this, then it

1553
00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:04,760
becomes hard for us to kind of we have

1554
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,320
to delay projects or how we build those.

1555
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,280
Because you can't just put

1556
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,720
a 36-in pipe in, right, and that

1557
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:14,760
developer's responsible for. He's only

1558
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:16,600
partly responsible for a small portion

1559
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:21,080
of that. So that means timing wise that impact fee plus our budget is

1560
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,640
sometimes can be a little bit hurting.

1561
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,800
But I do agree that this is more fair. I

1562
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,200
think this does put the onus on those

1563
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,520
that are creating more pervious area

1564
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,840
that are creating the impact fee, which

1565
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,840
in my opinion now is I think it is the

1566
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:38,160
right thing to do.

1567
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,280
Um it it does it's going to be a

1568
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,880
challenge just a little bit how we plan

1569
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:44,360
projects, but that's something we can

1570
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:45,080
manage.

1571
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:46,960
>> But this is just

1572
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:48,600
These are just impact the projects that

1573
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,000
it's going to impact, right? It's not

1574
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,160
going to impact

1575
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:53,720
normal wear and tear on the system that

1576
00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:54,680
we're having to upgrade over there.

1577
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:56,680
>> Yeah, that's maintenance. So,

1578
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,120
maintenance is part of that's the fees

1579
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,920
that generate the storm water fees.

1580
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:02,480
>> This is just increase in development.

1581
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,120
>> This is yes, capital facility projects.

1582
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:07,520
These are new

1583
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,000
>> So, it doesn't matter if it ebbs and

1584
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,440
flows because

1585
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,320
>> It does in a sense because we still have

1586
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,240
a lot of the west side, like Ivory Homes

1587
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:17,080
and

1588
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,120
um those areas that are undeveloped or

1589
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,920
we have for instance that northeast area

1590
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,040
that got annexed in there. We have

1591
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,080
undersized pipes. And then it was

1592
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:29,680
because it wasn't annexed or part of the

1593
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:31,520
general plan, it was agricultural, now

1594
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,920
it was now residential. Now those pipes

1595
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,720
are too small. That through this process

1596
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:38,600
we realized we need to upsize those

1597
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:39,280
pipes.

1598
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:40,680
>> going to be getting less because it is

1599
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,240
residential versus commercial.

1600
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:44,920
>> Some of it, yes. Yeah, it will change

1601
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,760
that a bit to to do that, yeah.

1602
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:49,320
But other projects where a big

1603
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,280
commercial comes in,

1604
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:52,560
typically because of a bigger

1605
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,360
commercial, they're going to create a

1606
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,720
bigger impact. Um they pay that bigger

1607
00:54:56,720 --> 00:54:58,160
fee, which means that we have the

1608
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,320
ability to upsize pipes down and they're

1609
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,040
typically downstream that are too small

1610
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:04,320
that they'll they'll pay for.

1611
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:05,880
>> But at the end of the day, you're okay

1612
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,160
with this and you guys are the ones that

1613
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,560
pushed it pushed him to look at it.

1614
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,880
>> Yeah, absolutely. And we looked at it in

1615
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,240
a lot of detail. We were asked to do

1616
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:16,560
that, not take one side of it, but look

1617
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,640
at it from all pros and cons, and we

1618
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:19,640
felt

1619
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,200
as far as everything kind of laying out,

1620
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,440
this is a much better solution.

1621
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,280
>> Thank you. Okay, we're about 10 minutes

1622
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,800
over. Is there

1623
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,760
any other pressing questions? Okay,

1624
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,870
thank you so much.

1625
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:35,800
All All next we have an ordinance

1626
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:37,160
amending the general plan to update the

1627
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,680
wastewater collection master plan.

1628
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,200
And this will be presented by Hannah

1629
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:47,950
Salzol and Lane Pierce.

1630
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:52,030
» Okay.

1631
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,080
» Hello. Uh Lane and other public works

1632
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:55,680
staff members are here to answer any

1633
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,640
questions you might have, but the more

1634
00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:59,120
person leading the presentation will be

1635
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,320
Keith Larson, one of the consultants.

1636
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,320
>> Great.

1637
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,800
We do have a presentation, right?

1638
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:08,520
>> This is what This one was submitted to

1639
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:09,200
us.

1640
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:10,720
>> Perfect.

1641
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:12,240
Okay, and the first thing is it says

1642
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:13,600
Andrew

1643
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,000
on there. Yeah.

1644
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:16,720
Sorry.

1645
00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:18,480
Oh, I got it.

1646
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:19,960
>> Good work.

1647
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:21,640
>> First thing it says Andrew, he gave the

1648
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,320
presentation at

1649
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,640
uh planning commission, but um

1650
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,840
you get me again. Sorry about that.

1651
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,040
Okay, so um

1652
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,480
I guess before we start in really quick

1653
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:35,680
just for perspective,

1654
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:37,920
what we're talking to that to about

1655
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,240
today is the storm water master plan,

1656
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:43,080
which is essentially the document that

1657
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:47,080
is used to plan the facilities and needs

1658
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,600
of the of the sewer system.

1659
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,200
This does not include impact fees. I saw

1660
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:54,560
you were talking about that on storm

1661
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,800
water. This is not including impact

1662
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,200
fees. Uh those have been prepared, but

1663
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:00,920
are in the process of being reviewed and

1664
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:02,440
will be back

1665
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,920
in a few months uh to talk about those.

1666
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,720
And nor does it include rates,

1667
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:10,520
uh which we're working on as well. Jimmy

1668
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,200
will be back uh in the fall sometime. I

1669
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:14,960
got that right? So, we're just talking

1670
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,520
master plan today. Okay, so if you had a

1671
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:19,760
chance to look at the packet, uh things

1672
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,480
are pretty good news right now. Here's

1673
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,200
your existing sewer system. Uh we are

1674
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,280
looking for problems that are either 65%

1675
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,720
or above uh in terms of how full your

1676
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,000
pipe is, that would be the yellow and

1677
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,640
the red pipes.

1678
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:40,120
Um, we do have this one major pipe out

1679
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:41,720
west that is

1680
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,560
has just right at the edge of capacity.

1681
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:47,440
Um, the rest looks pretty good. There's

1682
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:48,760
a couple little

1683
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,320
uh,

1684
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,320
scattered issues, but the existing

1685
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,600
system looks really good.

1686
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,120
Um, future model results with

1687
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,200
development, you can see that there

1688
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,280
starts to be some more problems.

1689
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,480
Obviously, this gets

1690
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:06,640
worse.

1691
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,600
Um, and then we also have as development

1692
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:11,720
occurs throughout the city, there are

1693
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,200
additional areas that need to be

1694
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:14,760
addressed.

1695
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,200
Um, really comparatively to what I've

1696
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,440
seen in other areas, this is in pretty

1697
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,360
good shape, but there are a few issues

1698
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:22,960
to address.

1699
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,160
Um, the other component that we looked

1700
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,720
at, and we're going really fast on this,

1701
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:29,480
um, we'll just answer questions as

1702
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,080
needed, but um, the other component that

1703
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,320
we looked at was the age of your system.

1704
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,480
And this is where there are,

1705
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:38,920
uh, just like on your water system,

1706
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:40,520
there's some challenges with aging

1707
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:42,160
infrastructure.

1708
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,920
Um, about 20% of your system was built

1709
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,280
prior to the 1950s.

1710
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,840
Uh, sewer pipelines typically last

1711
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:55,040
uh, 70 to 90 years,

1712
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:55,720
um,

1713
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:57,840
but, uh, sometimes they don't last quite

1714
00:58:57,840 --> 00:58:59,440
that long. Sometimes they last a little

1715
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,560
bit longer, uh, but there is a big chunk

1716
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:04,160
uh, that's coming up towards the end of

1717
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:05,480
its life.

1718
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,040
Uh, we actually did a quick analysis on

1719
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,440
when we would expected those to need

1720
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,320
replacement. This takes into account the

1721
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:17,320
age of the pipeline, its material, and,

1722
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:18,240
um,

1723
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,240
where it's located in the system. Some

1724
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,800
areas are a little more prone to

1725
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,800
degradation than others.

1726
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,640
Um, and so what you can see is that the

1727
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,360
amount of annual rehabilitation

1728
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,960
replacement needs are spread out over

1729
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,760
the next 100 years here.

1730
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,120
Uh, but there is a big group about $15

1731
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:40,520
million a year

1732
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,440
of infrastructure that has reached the

1733
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,960
end of its expected life. And so there's

1734
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,000
some need for investment on

1735
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,760
rehabilitation and replacement.

1736
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,200
So what we do is we take those together

1737
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:56,440
and we put

1738
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:57,080
>> Quick question.

1739
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:57,400
>> Yeah.

1740
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,680
>> So what happens in 2040?

1741
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,560
>> Uh, oh, that's a great question.

1742
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:02,720
>> That's a big year for storm

1743
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,280
>> Yeah, that's a great question. So, uh,

1744
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,000
some of the earlier records were not

1745
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:09,720
very complete. They didn't tell us

1746
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,320
exactly what the year,

1747
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:15,040
uh, was the installation occurred. And

1748
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:17,040
so when we didn't know that and we knew

1749
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:19,960
the decade, we would just group it to,

1750
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,160
uh, the the year. So you can see it's

1751
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,400
actually 2040 and there's another one in

1752
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,600
2060 where there's a spike.

1753
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,320
If I had to do this over again, I would

1754
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,040
have just spread that out over the 10

1755
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:31,320
years.

1756
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:31,440
Uh,

1757
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:32,320
>> It'll be better.

1758
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:34,120
>> And and we may do that in the final

1759
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,520
presentation, but, uh, that was what the

1760
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:37,600
data,

1761
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,480
uh, initially showed.

1762
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:41,320
So, uh, great question. Thank you.

1763
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:44,560
>> That chart is purely based off the

1764
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:46,960
lifetime pipe assumption.

1765
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,240
>> Uh, so

1766
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:50,240
um,

1767
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,040
y- yeah, it's a little more complicated

1768
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:57,640
than that, but primarily from the the the

1769
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,760
age of the pipe, you're correct. Um,

1770
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:02,640
however, we did do a statistical

1771
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,160
analysis and applied that on top of the

1772
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,640
age because we know a certain percentage

1773
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:09,960
of pipes will fail early, a certain

1774
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,480
percentage of pipes will last a lot

1775
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:13,200
longer.

1776
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:14,960
>> distribution that you're applying.

1777
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:16,480
>> That's correct.

1778
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,000
But what we don't have is we have some,

1779
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,080
uh, condition data in the system, but we

1780
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,760
don't have it for the entire system.

1781
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,640
That's something that the city continues

1782
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,360
to collect.

1783
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,800
>> All right. Any questions?

1784
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:34,720
>> Uh I think there's just one last slide

1785
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,240
here, which Oh, well, I guess two. This

1786
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,040
is where

1787
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:42,360
future projects are

1788
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:46,360
um specific to capacity, and this is a

1789
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,240
recommended capital facilities plan that

1790
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,840
identifies by year

1791
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,200
uh when projects would come out online,

1792
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:57,160
and then also identifies some uh a

1793
01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:59,600
recommended system replacement uh

1794
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:00,880
budget.

1795
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:02,960
Um

1796
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,480
I think that's uh uh uh uh

1797
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,000
That was super rapid-fire, but that is

1798
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:12,400
the conclusions of the master plan.

1799
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:13,840
>> Councilor Gary Garrett.

1800
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,920
>> So, with the water rate increase that

1801
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:17,720
was recently approved for this fiscal

1802
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,760
year, does that put us in line for uh

1803
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,240
um adequate funding for some of these

1804
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:24,120
projects?

1805
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,200
>> So, uh that was on the water side.

1806
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:30,040
Um this is on the wastewater side.

1807
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,320
And I don't know, did Did you approve a

1808
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:35,200
wastewater increase?

1809
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,550
Not yet.

1810
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:40,320
So, no.

1811
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,440
>> There's no wastewater

1812
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:43,160
>> Yeah.

1813
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:44,560
>> There's no wastewater recommendation

1814
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:46,000
increases this budget.

1815
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:47,960
>> Yeah.

1816
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,000
And And your follow-up question probably

1817
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,120
is

1818
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:53,600
what does this translate to in terms of

1819
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:55,280
rate increases, and the answer is I

1820
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,440
don't know that yet. Uh that's what

1821
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,520
we'll be coming back with on Jimmy with

1822
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,600
Jimmy in the fall.

1823
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:04,520
Uh this does represent an increase from

1824
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,240
historic funding,

1825
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,960
uh but we haven't quite figured those

1826
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,990
numbers out yet.

1827
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:14,480
» Councilor Wetzel.

1828
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,790
>> Um

1829
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,720
Maybe I misread this, but we have the

1830
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:25,360
EVA biosolids agreement that ends

1831
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,360
this year. I'm I didn't I just was

1832
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:29,240
wondering if there was any

1833
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,000
uh

1834
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:31,080
if that'll be like automatically

1835
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:32,120
continued or is that something we're

1836
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:32,600
going to have to cover?

1837
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,160
>> That's part of the next presentation.

1838
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:42,470
>> Oh, it is.

1839
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,480
» Any more questions?

1840
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:45,680
>> No.

1841
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:47,400
Just a plea. Make sure you get that

1842
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,200
trunk line figured out before it backs

1843
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,280
my sewer up, please.

1844
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:57,110
Don't let it back my sewer up.

1845
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:58,440
Okay.

1846
01:03:58,440 --> 01:03:59,160
Thank you.

1847
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:00,440
>> There you go. Okay.

1848
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,790
>> Thank you, Zena.

1849
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:05,280
» Next we have a resolution attesting to

1850
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,080
the review of the municipal wastewater

1851
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:09,920
planning program survey for calendar

1852
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:11,960
year 2025 in accordance with the Utah

1853
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,560
pollutant discharge elimination system.

1854
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,960
And this will be presented

1855
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,360
by Dave Torgerson.

1856
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:21,600
Haven't seen you for a while, Dave.

1857
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:25,590
>> I know, it has been a while.

1858
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,440
See if I can figure this out.

1859
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:29,600
Um

1860
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,160
So, this is this is a um

1861
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:34,960
a survey that we have to complete every

1862
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,160
year um when we

1863
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,680
applied for funding from the state um

1864
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:41,360
environmental quality, this is one of

1865
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:42,840
the requirements

1866
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,520
that we complete a a self-assessment of

1867
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:47,840
our system every year and it goes

1868
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:50,200
through um several categories. It goes

1869
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:51,240
through

1870
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,880
um financial um

1871
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:55,560
the health of our financial system on

1872
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:57,800
the wastewater side. It goes through

1873
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,800
uh the our collection system. So, some

1874
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,760
of what Keith just talked about in the

1875
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,320
um the age and condition of our pipes um

1876
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:09,960
to our staff um how many

1877
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,240
uh overflows we have, etc.

1878
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,280
Um, normally this the survey is um, due

1879
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,000
by April 15th.

1880
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:19,840
Um, this year we were a little bit late

1881
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:21,600
in submitting it.

1882
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,320
Uh, because the the survey was emailed

1883
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:26,960
out to

1884
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:33,040
Gary Calder who retired. And so we never got it until after

1885
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:36,160
um, the deadline. So we worked with um,

1886
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:37,640
environmental quality and extended the

1887
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:38,880
deadline.

1888
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:40,960
Um, and submitted it.

1889
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:42,600
>> Are Gary's emails now going to someone

1890
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:42,880
else?

1891
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:44,200
>> Yes, it is.

1892
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:44,560
>> Okay.

1893
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:49,230
>> Yep. It's going to me now. So

1894
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:51,640
Um, so like I said that it goes over

1895
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:54,480
several um, several topics. Um, the

1896
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,760
first one is uh, financial

1897
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:58,440
self-evaluation.

1898
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,160
And all of these bullet points are

1899
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,640
sections uh, in the survey that uh,

1900
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:05,720
that are answered and uh, in the packet

1901
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:10,320
I believe you got the entire survey. Um, it's and the

1902
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,120
answers. Um, it's it's in coordination

1903
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:16,160
with several other other departments. So

1904
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:18,400
Jimmy um, helped work on on the

1905
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:20,200
financial part of it.

1906
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,200
Um, we answered that. Uh, we also um,

1907
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,480
then go into the collection system.

1908
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:27,520
Um, where we did uh,

1909
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:28,240
um,

1910
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:31,040
you know, lots of uh, each section of

1911
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:35,760
the the collection system where we go over parts of the master plan that

1912
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:37,600
Keith talked about.

1913
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:39,040
Um,

1914
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:42,840
we I work with community development on

1915
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,240
uh, new uh, permits, new building

1916
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:47,080
permits that came in

1917
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:48,520
to the city

1918
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:50,320
um, every year and how that impacts our

1919
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:52,720
system. Um, one of the things I'd like

1920
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,520
to point out is um, one of the things

1921
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,120
we're always proud of is

1922
01:06:57,120 --> 01:07:00,360
um, sanitary sewer sewer overflows.

1923
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:04,040
Um, those are our backups or where they

1924
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:06,040
um, overflow into the

1925
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:08,360
uh, out into the street.

1926
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:09,080
Um

1927
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:10,200
>> I had a question about that, actually.

1928
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:10,760
>> Yes.

1929
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:12,080
>> I love this survey, by the way. It's my

1930
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:12,920
favorite thing every year.

1931
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:13,520
>> Yes.

1932
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,440
>> But, um the the SSO, do we charge like

1933
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:18,720
that this one was I guess a developer

1934
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:20,440
was responsible for one of these. Do

1935
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:22,120
they get charged for these incidents?

1936
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:24,680
>> So, it it typically goes to the claims

1937
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:28,720
like if there's a a sewer overflow,

1938
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:31,120
um it goes through the claims process

1939
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,640
where um you know, we'll have them

1940
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:36,720
contact uh a restoration company as well

1941
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,160
as uh the legal department, fill out a

1942
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:41,360
claim, and it goes through that claims

1943
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:42,160
process.

1944
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:43,840
>> What? For them to get reimbursed?

1945
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:47,040
>> to get reimbursed or determine um how

1946
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:48,760
much of that is

1947
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:49,720
>> So, you're talking about two different

1948
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:51,080
things. So, you're talking about like

1949
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,440
happening to a citizen.

1950
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:55,400
I'm also talking about the person who's

1951
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:57,040
like the the one you said here it was a

1952
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:58,840
contractor that caused the issue. So,

1953
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:01,000
does that contractor pay for the issue

1954
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:03,120
for the citizen and pay for whatever the

1955
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,000
city has to spend to fix this problem?

1956
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:05,520
>> Yes.

1957
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:06,040
>> Okay.

1958
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:09,360
>> Yep. But, again, that goes through uh

1959
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:11,920
the the a claims and legal process.

1960
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:12,400
>> Okay.

1961
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:13,960
>> Yep.

1962
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:17,120
Um so, yeah, I'm I'm proud to to say we

1963
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:18,680
have very few

1964
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:19,319
um

1965
01:08:19,319 --> 01:08:21,279
overflows and backups.

1966
01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:22,920
>> I also noticed on your survey you said

1967
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:24,440
um the average monthly use charge is

1968
01:08:24,440 --> 01:08:26,520
13.51. That seemed high. Is that just

1969
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,480
because of commercials involved in your

1970
01:08:28,480 --> 01:08:30,880
average?

1971
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:32,359
>> So, that number is just calculated by

1972
01:08:32,359 --> 01:08:34,600
the total number total revenue and the

1973
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:35,920
total number of customers. So, it

1974
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:37,920
includes commercial and residential.

1975
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:39,040
>> Every customer in the city.

1976
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:40,520
>> Okay.

1977
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,279
>> Yeah, that seems really high.

1978
01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:43,960
Um

1979
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:45,359
>> Oh.

1980
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:46,520
You have another question?

1981
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:47,279
>> I have a whole list.

1982
01:08:47,279 --> 01:08:48,440
>> Okay.

1983
01:08:48,440 --> 01:08:50,560
>> Um the sinking fund?

1984
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,799
What is that?

1985
01:08:52,799 --> 01:08:54,400
>> Essentially a savings account.

1986
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:54,839
>> Okay.

1987
01:08:54,839 --> 01:08:57,000
>> Um which I you don't

1988
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:57,880
>> We don't do that.

1989
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:59,240
>> Right. Sometimes we'll save up for

1990
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:00,560
projects, but we don't have a separate

1991
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:02,640
fund that we use just to save up money.

1992
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:04,680
>> Okay, because we have a general fund and

1993
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:05,560
we

1994
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:06,720
Okay.

1995
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:08,160
All right.

1996
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:10,920
Um my other question was

1997
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,440
the flushable wipes.

1998
01:09:13,440 --> 01:09:14,920
You got me on flushable wipes when I did

1999
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:15,799
my little tour with you.

2000
01:09:15,799 --> 01:09:16,440
>> Okay.

2001
01:09:16,440 --> 01:09:17,440
>> I felt educated.

2002
01:09:17,440 --> 01:09:17,720
>> Good.

2003
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:19,920
>> Um we should do like a PSA on that.

2004
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:20,640
>> We

2005
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:22,279
>> Like is it Is it still a problem and

2006
01:09:22,279 --> 01:09:25,040
causing, you know, SSOs?

2007
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,560
>> We We don't do it as often as we would

2008
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:29,640
like. We probably should do better.

2009
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,920
Um we often go around and and do um door

2010
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:35,520
hangers where we'll we'll hang it on uh

2011
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:36,680
>> areas where you know it's happening.

2012
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:38,359
>> Mhm. Yep, we do.

2013
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:38,720
>> It's funny.

2014
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,839
>> Um we do that. Um we also uh

2015
01:09:41,839 --> 01:09:43,680
not every year, but often times we'll go

2016
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:45,440
to the elementary schools

2017
01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:47,200
um towards the end of the year and have

2018
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:48,080
a

2019
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:49,960
uh kind of a show and tell with the

2020
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:52,640
elementary kids and take They take stuff

2021
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:53,520
home.

2022
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,600
That's cool. That way.

2023
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,120
So, um yes, uh

2024
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:00,520
back to

2025
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:01,320
um

2026
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:02,880
uh Counselor Whitlock, you asked a

2027
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:04,640
question about

2028
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,880
Um so, part of the evaluation is on our

2029
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:09,840
wastewater plant. Um the wastewater

2030
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,280
plant uh treats

2031
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:14,240
both liquid and solids. We separate it

2032
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:16,480
and treat both of those.

2033
01:10:16,480 --> 01:10:19,440
And for about the past 30 years or so,

2034
01:10:19,440 --> 01:10:22,240
um we have treated our solids to a point

2035
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:23,280
where

2036
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:25,880
um it's able to be used as a fertilizer.

2037
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:28,200
And we have taken it to a farm on the

2038
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:30,440
other side of the lake and used it as a

2039
01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:32,200
fertilizer over there.

2040
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,080
Um about 4 years ago, they approached us

2041
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:36,560
and said, "We want to to terminate our

2042
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:39,080
contract. We're We're done with it."

2043
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:40,680
So, we've been in negotiations with them

2044
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:42,440
for about 4 years.

2045
01:10:42,440 --> 01:10:45,760
Um that contract um expires at the end

2046
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:48,520
of this year. So, 20 The end of December

2047
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:50,000
31st,

2048
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,360
uh that contract expires.

2049
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:55,320
There is an option in there that we can

2050
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:58,120
request to extend that contract. Um so

2051
01:10:58,120 --> 01:10:59,880
we're going to do that.

2052
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:01,880
Um there's no obligation on their part

2053
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,680
to accept that extension. I don't

2054
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:07,480
anticipate that they will accept it. So,

2055
01:11:07,480 --> 01:11:10,000
I'm anticipating that that contract is

2056
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,920
going to end. So, we have been we've been

2057
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:14,600
searching for

2058
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:19,680
um a lot of locations the to try to find

2059
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:22,280
um a new facility, a new place to to

2060
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:24,400
take our our solids.

2061
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:26,840
Um all of the wastewater treatment

2062
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:28,480
plants along the Wasatch Front are in

2063
01:11:28,480 --> 01:11:30,440
the in a similar boat.

2064
01:11:30,440 --> 01:11:34,320
Um most of their contracts are are

2065
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:36,360
terminating not as quickly as ours, but

2066
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:38,320
they're in in uh

2067
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:40,200
um termination of their contracts as

2068
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:42,320
well. Some of the sewer districts that

2069
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:45,280
have a lot more funding than um us as a

2070
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:47,320
city have actually gone and purchased

2071
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:48,520
their own

2072
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:51,640
farms that they can then take their um

2073
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:55,880
biosolids to and land apply them. Um

2074
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:58,240
Timpanogos Special Service District

2075
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:00,840
tried that just a year ago

2076
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:03,600
and the community where they bought the

2077
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:04,680
land

2078
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:07,960
um held a public hearing, public notice,

2079
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:11,480
and denied them. So, they purchased land

2080
01:12:11,480 --> 01:12:14,560
and now they uh denied them use of that

2081
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,040
land to apply biosolids.

2082
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:20,520
So, currently um the closest farm that

2083
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:25,600
we've been able to find is um clear up in Logan.

2084
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,520
Um so, hauling all the way to Logan

2085
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:34,360
um plus they also want a tipping fee to be able to to

2086
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:36,080
um dump there.

2087
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,320
Uh it's just not cost effective. So,

2088
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:41,520
currently our plan right now is to haul

2089
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,080
across the lake to the landfill.

2090
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:45,920
Um we have to pay a tipping fee for

2091
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:48,480
that. Um but we haven't been able to to

2092
01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:51,880
find a another suitable location that

2093
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:55,040
will accept um our biosolids which is

2094
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,880
unfortunate it's

2095
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,200
in my opinion it's

2096
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,040
environmentally friendly option but it's

2097
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:08,320
also a controversial option as well. You

2098
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:12,800
using human waste fertilizer is is

2099
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:14,760
controversial so

2100
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:16,600
anyway hope that answers your question.

2101
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:18,120
>> that's really helpful

2102
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:19,880
is that going to have any substantial

2103
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:21,720
economic impact?

2104
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,280
Or is it simply just a environmental

2105
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:25,200
>> No it

2106
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:27,440
obviously it will have an

2107
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:29,000
financial impact.

2108
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,440
>> Was this farm paying us for the waste?

2109
01:13:32,440 --> 01:13:34,200
>> They were not paying us for the waste it

2110
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,280
was it was mutual

2111
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:39,960
beneficial they received the benefit of

2112
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:41,800
the fertilizer where they wouldn't have

2113
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:45,960
to purchase it. It also gave us a a

2114
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:47,760
means to dispose of it.

2115
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:49,400
>> Are they not farming anymore or

2116
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:50,080
>> They are farming.

2117
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:51,960
>> This just has become not cool to do.

2118
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:52,480
>> Yes.

2119
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:52,960
>> Okay.

2120
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:54,120
>> Yep.

2121
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:56,040
They don't they don't want the publicity

2122
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:57,200
that

2123
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:58,640
comes with it.

2124
01:13:58,640 --> 01:13:59,560
>> Interesting.

2125
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:01,720
>> with cow fertilizer but not human.

2126
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:04,640
>> Yes.

2127
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:05,240
that is

2128
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:06,160
>> Humans are interesting.

2129
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:09,360
>> That is true so

2130
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:11,000
Yeah so just to wrap up I don't want to

2131
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,280
take too much time but

2132
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,840
to wrap up

2133
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:22,040
the point of this is to present this

2134
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,320
to the to the council and get a

2135
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:27,920
resolution for the

2136
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:29,840
municipal wastewater

2137
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:31,160
um

2138
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:32,480
plan.

2139
01:14:32,480 --> 01:14:35,280
Um so any any other questions?

2140
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:37,080
>> I have a couple more questions.

2141
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:39,400
We only inspect every 5 years is that

2142
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:41,600
industry standard or do we lack the

2143
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:43,040
staff to do it?

2144
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:44,400
>> We I

2145
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:45,320
>> we do the cameras?

2146
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:46,880
>> Oh it's

2147
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,120
um we don't like we have

2148
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:52,840
what, 340 miles-ish

2149
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:53,640
of pipe.

2150
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:54,400
>> So, it's just getting through

2151
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:59,480
>> And so, getting through all of it takes roughly about that amount of time.

2152
01:14:59,480 --> 01:15:00,200
>> Okay.

2153
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:02,160
And how are we able to get rid of lifts?

2154
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:04,360
I don't understand. If this topography

2155
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:05,840
doesn't change, so how do you get rid of

2156
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:06,840
lifts?

2157
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:08,360
>> So,

2158
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:09,760
um

2159
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,560
that is a very good question. Uh

2160
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:14,160
the the way we've been able to do it is

2161
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:16,800
on the on the west side,

2162
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:19,200
um we installed a

2163
01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:22,240
what what uh we used to we call the like

2164
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:25,520
the backbone, the west side trunk line.

2165
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:26,480
Um

2166
01:15:26,480 --> 01:15:29,080
>> Oh, so you did all new piping that's

2167
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:29,280
like

2168
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:31,880
>> it just it goes deeper.

2169
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:34,280
So, we installed we actually installed

2170
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:35,960
the southwest lift station down by the

2171
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:37,200
airport.

2172
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:40,640
Really deep, really big, and that allows

2173
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:42,880
us to eliminate

2174
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:46,560
uh three or four up to I think five lift

2175
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:49,440
stations along the line.

2176
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:49,560
Uh so

2177
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:51,480
>> Okay, so you just did one whole new

2178
01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:52,360
Okay.

2179
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:53,640
>> All right, thank you.

2180
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:55,320
Any other questions? Okay, um Counselor

2181
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:56,200
Whitlock.

2182
01:15:56,200 --> 01:15:58,960
>> Uh so, this is kind of dovetailing on

2183
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:00,520
some of Counselor McKay's questions, but

2184
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,040
I just want to make sure I've got my

2185
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:03,880
head around this. So, you know, just

2186
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:05,640
reading the survey

2187
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:08,400
found it a little surprising um

2188
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:10,240
that we said no to some of these things,

2189
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:11,480
but maybe I'm just not understanding.

2190
01:16:11,480 --> 01:16:13,560
Like we said we don't have the staff

2191
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:15,680
sufficient staff to provide proper

2192
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:17,560
operations and maintenance. Like, can

2193
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:18,560
you speak to that?

2194
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:20,800
>> Yeah, um

2195
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:22,520
I think through through the budget

2196
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:23,840
process

2197
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:28,320
um you know, we com- comparable to

2198
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:30,760
uh all a lot of other communities, most

2199
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:34,360
other communities of our size,

2200
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:35,160
um

2201
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:41,600
we we are understaffed. Um you know, the communities that we've compared to

2202
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:43,520
have uh

2203
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:47,000
you know, 12 14 plus employees for their

2204
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:50,320
collection system. So, uh to Councillor

2205
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:52,720
McKay's point, how come it takes us 5

2206
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:55,600
years to to get through and video the

2207
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:59,160
system, we just don't have the manpower

2208
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:00,840
to be able to do it

2209
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:02,640
any quicker than that.

2210
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:03,200
Um

2211
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:06,280
There There other places

2212
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:08,080
um cleaning

2213
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:10,640
uh the lines, doing other other parts of

2214
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:17,600
the project. So, we just don't have the manpower to do it quicker.

2215
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,400
>> As long as you answer no to that

2216
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:21,240
question, I just want to specify the

2217
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:23,320
main part of that that that makes me put

2218
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:25,200
no is it says does the sewer system have

2219
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:26,560
sufficient staff to provide proper

2220
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:28,160
operation and maintenance?

2221
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:29,880
I believe we do.

2222
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:31,600
And it says and repair and replacement.

2223
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:33,680
And that's where we're getting into

2224
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:35,040
not having sufficient staff to do the

2225
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,280
replacement of the whole system.

2226
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:39,600
Um we do I would mention that tonight's

2227
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:41,760
budget does include uh collections

2228
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,560
position, an additional position to help

2229
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:46,720
with with that, [clears throat] but it's not I don't want anyone to think

2230
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:47,920
we're not operating and maintaining the

2231
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:49,680
system. It's more about the replacement

2232
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:51,800
that we're lacking.

2233
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:55,080
>> And I And I think to to that point, you

2234
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:58,200
know, part of the the survey shows that

2235
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,120
um you know, we have very few sanitary

2236
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,880
sewer overflows. That's a an indication

2237
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:06,640
that we are able to get out and and

2238
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:08,320
maintain the system.

2239
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:11,560
Um we're we're doing it very very lean,

2240
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:15,000
um but we are able to to minimize those

2241
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:16,800
issues and problems.

2242
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:18,360
>> So, you're not personally concerned with

2243
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:25,320
any of these no questions or answers, or you? Like that sewer revenues are not

2244
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:27,280
sufficient to cover maintenance costs

2245
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:28,520
and repair.

2246
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:30,880
I'm just Anyway, I just just I'd like to

2247
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:31,880
speed that up cuz like if you just read

2248
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,760
this prima facie, it sounds kind of

2249
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:36,480
uh difficult.

2250
01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:38,160
>> Say that again. To me, it's about the

2251
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:39,000
replacement.

2252
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:39,480
>> Okay.

2253
01:18:39,480 --> 01:18:41,160
>> Replacement corner of that.

2254
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:43,240
We um you know, as part of the master

2255
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:45,240
plan, we are going to be getting out of

2256
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:46,240
these.

2257
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:47,920
And we have our capital facilities plan,

2258
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:50,120
which tells us what we would want to do,

2259
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:51,280
what we want to strike, what we want to

2260
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:52,480
replace.

2261
01:18:52,480 --> 01:18:54,120
Once we know how much we can charge the

2262
01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:55,880
impact fees, whether that gets approved

2263
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:57,960
or not, we'll know what the balance is

2264
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:00,160
that needs to be funded from residents

2265
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:02,120
and from the sewer customers.

2266
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:04,040
And so at that point, we'll

2267
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:05,880
um I think we'll come back to you and

2268
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:08,440
talk about rates and

2269
01:19:08,440 --> 01:19:09,960
um issue on what's the appropriate

2270
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:11,720
replacement cycle, how much do you want

2271
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:13,720
to invest in sewer replacement. Right. I

2272
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:15,560
mean, the last few years, we we've we've

2273
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:17,280
done a lot in sewer

2274
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:19,120
with the new treatment plant.

2275
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:20,960
You know, this west side the station,

2276
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:22,520
all these trunk lines on the west side.

2277
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:27,080
We've done a lot. We have a lot of um

2278
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:29,760
really low interest loans we're paying

2279
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:30,720
off.

2280
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:32,240
We're it's all just needs to be factored

2281
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:34,320
into the how much

2282
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:36,120
are we wanting to to invest in

2283
01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:37,760
replacement with all these other fees

2284
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:39,240
that are going on with where the impact

2285
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:41,200
fees land.

2286
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:42,680
Um but right now, we don't have enough

2287
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:44,480
sufficient revenues to do all of the

2288
01:19:44,480 --> 01:19:45,480
replacement.

2289
01:19:45,480 --> 01:19:49,000
>> Is it Is it reasonable for me to think about

2290
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:51,360
like the process we've been going on for

2291
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:53,040
water pipes over the last several years,

2292
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:54,440
we're going to be on a similar journey

2293
01:19:54,440 --> 01:19:55,320
for sewer?

2294
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:55,960
>> Yes.

2295
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:56,720
>> Okay.

2296
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:58,560
>> So.

2297
01:19:58,560 --> 01:19:59,360
>> Thank you.

2298
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:00,960
>> We're not having any fun pure rates at

2299
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:01,520
the same time.

2300
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,320
>> No, I I understand. I understand. I know.

2301
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:06,440
I was thinking the level of that sort of

2302
01:20:06,440 --> 01:20:07,680
investigation.

2303
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:08,360
>> Perfect.

2304
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:11,030
>> What the what say more?

2305
01:20:11,030 --> 01:20:12,480
>> [laughter]

2306
01:20:12,480 --> 01:20:13,600
>> What say more what

2307
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:16,390
>> That's

2308
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:18,120
» So, I want to follow up on the compost

2309
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:19,560
thing cuz we've had the discussion.

2310
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:21,080
Springfield does. They take the

2311
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:23,400
biosolids and they do compost. So, they

2312
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:24,960
take the green waste and they they

2313
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:27,840
compost. There's an opportunity we can.

2314
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:29,640
Like we talked about it with Dave

2315
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:31,400
because Just to find solutions that

2316
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:34,160
would help that funding, that change

2317
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:35,960
that will happen by taking it out to the

2318
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:38,680
landfill. Landfills are now generating

2319
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:40,640
more biosolids and are continuing

2320
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:43,720
something that we're having discussions

2321
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:46,040
currently with what's going to Spanish

2322
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:48,320
Fork and all the cities now transporting

2323
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:50,680
that out there is starting to become

2324
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:53,360
some issues for the landfills.

2325
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:55,600
So, we have talked about composting

2326
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:56,800
those things that would change

2327
01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:59,440
operations a little bit. We feel that it

2328
01:20:59,440 --> 01:21:01,400
is safe but would require us to do

2329
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:02,840
things a little bit different.

2330
01:21:02,840 --> 01:21:04,960
>> There's a lot of complications that come

2331
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:05,040
with

2332
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:06,760
>> There's a lot of there. Say there's some

2333
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:08,640
pros and there's some cons. Just want

2334
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:10,320
you to be aware of that. First like

2335
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:13,200
Timpanogus, they're they were doing it

2336
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:16,120
but the smell got so bad I-15

2337
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:16,560
They had to

2338
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:18,840
>> The The communities that contribute to

2339
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:21,160
the the wastewater and were benefiting

2340
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:22,720
from the compost actually sued

2341
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:24,160
Timpanogus.

2342
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:25,160
And now they know I'm not

2343
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:26,600
>> I'm not saying it's the right thing or

2344
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:28,680
not. I'm just saying those are things

2345
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:30,200
that we could

2346
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:32,960
>> And it And it We It's something that

2347
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:35,000
we're evaluating.

2348
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:37,520
>> Is the Is the landfill not a sustainable

2349
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:39,640
solution? Is it a gap fill?

2350
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:42,720
>> It is. It's just the cost. I can tell

2351
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:44,200
you right now the discussions with the

2352
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:46,120
landfill because the landfill that we

2353
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:49,320
use is owned by

2354
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:51,000
South Jordan. It's part of their

2355
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:52,556
community. They don't So,

2356
01:21:52,556 --> 01:21:53,840
[clears throat] now they're closing

2357
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:55,680
their system down and we'll be moving

2358
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:58,160
all there. So, the usable land or the

2359
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:01,520
landfills which have to permit that

2360
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:03,160
ability to now

2361
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:07,040
move that into those places. The cost is

2362
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:07,720
going to go up.

2363
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:09,640
>> There's also

2364
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:10,400
um

2365
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:12,360
Right right now

2366
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:14,480
I don't know how many people are aware

2367
01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:19,000
there's PFAS is in the news. PFAS is in

2368
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:22,040
our biosolids. It's in tiny tiny amounts

2369
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:24,160
but it is in our biosolids.

2370
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:25,480
And

2371
01:22:25,480 --> 01:22:29,120
landfills Some of the landfills are, you

2372
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:31,440
know, they're under regulations as well.

2373
01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:33,680
And so, when they accept a known

2374
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:38,160
quantity of of uh pollutant, um,

2375
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:39,720
so, they they may tighten their

2376
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:42,120
regulations as well. So,

2377
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:45,000
it it's it's a little bit unknown at

2378
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:49,360
this point what's what's in the future.

2379
01:22:49,360 --> 01:22:51,720
So, anyway, I didn't mean to take so

2380
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:54,160
much time, but I I am I love to come and

2381
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:55,120
talk about

2382
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:55,600
>> We've missed you.

2383
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:57,320
>> It's It's uh well, thank you.

2384
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:58,680
>> So, it's the most interesting

2385
01:22:58,680 --> 01:23:00,480
conversation I've ever had on council so

2386
01:23:00,480 --> 01:23:02,000
far in my 6 months.

2387
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:03,160
>> Well,

2388
01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:04,000
>> Always interesting.

2389
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:06,480
>> And Council Council McKay can probably

2390
01:23:06,480 --> 01:23:08,440
um second that coming out to the

2391
01:23:08,440 --> 01:23:13,960
wastewater plant, coming on a tour. We welcome you to come. It It is um it's

2392
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:16,440
a lot more exciting than you ever would

2393
01:23:16,440 --> 01:23:18,040
have imagined. So,

2394
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:18,440
>> All right.

2395
01:23:18,440 --> 01:23:19,640
>> Um yes, thank you.

2396
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:20,680
>> Thanks, Dave.

2397
01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:22,600
All right. Um

2398
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:24,440
Yeah, we are a little behind.

2399
01:23:24,440 --> 01:23:25,960
One more then we'll have a break. A

2400
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:28,120
presentation regarding the action plan

2401
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:30,320
for the 2026 Growing Water Smart

2402
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:31,840
Workshop.

2403
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:38,990
And we have Hannah Sassuh.

2404
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:39,440
» Wait.

2405
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:41,680
>> I'll try to keep this brief and still

2406
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:43,480
wrap up by 2:30 with this item if

2407
01:23:43,480 --> 01:23:45,880
possible. For context for the council,

2408
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,000
this is an update on a workshop where

2409
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:50,240
staff and other representatives for the

2410
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:52,000
city, mayor was there, Councilwoman was

2411
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:53,920
there from council, were able to

2412
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:55,520
collaborate and communicate on what our

2413
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:56,760
next steps might be. We're still

2414
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:59,080
figuring out how to do that. Those are

2415
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:00,720
all administrative actions. If they

2416
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:02,640
require legislative action, we'll bring

2417
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:05,080
it to you at that time. But, don't feel

2418
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:08,280
like you need to weigh in and shift to

2419
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:10,280
developing long-term water policy right

2420
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:12,480
now. Um this is just keeping you abreast

2421
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:15,640
of those discussions that are happening.

2422
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:18,880
So, the Growing Water Smart team uh

2423
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:20,840
consists of lots of different partners

2424
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:22,280
in Utah, the Utah League of Cities and

2425
01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:24,920
Towns, but this team also works with

2426
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:28,080
communities across the western region.

2427
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:29,320
They

2428
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:31,040
uh put together information, they put

2429
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:33,600
out resources, their data center water

2430
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:35,440
analysis were very useful in looking at

2431
01:24:35,440 --> 01:24:37,080
our data center code.

2432
01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:38,960
Uh and in addition to all of their

2433
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:41,400
policy and information research and

2434
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:43,880
research, they also host workshops for

2435
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:45,840
communities where they will invite five

2436
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:48,720
to 10 communities with different reps to

2437
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:50,560
have a larger conference where they get

2438
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:52,480
to talk about new developments and

2439
01:24:52,480 --> 01:24:54,680
policies and state updates and what

2440
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:56,960
resort researchers uh up at the U are

2441
01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:58,800
learning more as we're exploring drought

2442
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:00,200
tolerant plants. And then those

2443
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:01,960
communities get facilitated breakout

2444
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:04,520
sessions just within their community and

2445
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:06,440
someone from uh one of these

2446
01:25:06,440 --> 01:25:08,960
organizations In our organization, we

2447
01:25:08,960 --> 01:25:10,720
had a rep or in our team breakout

2448
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:13,680
sessions, we had a representative from

2449
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:15,080
the Growing Water Smart team who's

2450
01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:16,440
worked with Provo for several years,

2451
01:25:16,440 --> 01:25:18,240
done some analytical work for us. She

2452
01:25:18,240 --> 01:25:20,000
knows Provo's water just about as well

2453
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:22,000
as anyone at this point. But she also

2454
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:23,400
could connect us with the better

2455
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:25,280
regional network of information and

2456
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:27,000
resources. We also had someone from the

2457
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:29,040
Central Utah Water Conservancy District.

2458
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:30,800
So as we were talking about our needs

2459
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:32,920
and our priorities, he could connect us

2460
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:34,320
with existing resources we might not

2461
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:35,920
have known about. He can also take those

2462
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:38,320
needs back to the water district and as

2463
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:39,680
we're communicating back and forth going

2464
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:41,280
forward on policy, he knows where we

2465
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:42,680
are, we know where they are. We were all

2466
01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:43,920
able to to work around the table

2467
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:45,680
together. So these are incredible

2468
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,680
communication opportunities.

2469
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:51,000
We participated in a Growing Water Smart

2470
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:53,080
workshop in 2023 as well, the first time

2471
01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:55,960
they were done in Utah and we are still

2472
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:58,000
seeing benefits from those relationships

2473
01:25:58,000 --> 01:25:59,280
and communication networks that were

2474
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:00,840
opened up. Uh

2475
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:04,520
Provo is the first city in Utah to do

2476
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:06,320
the workshop twice and come back. They

2477
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:08,360
brought us in partly as a peer model for

2478
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:09,480
other cities as we're talking and

2479
01:26:09,480 --> 01:26:11,480
showing them what we've done, but also

2480
01:26:11,480 --> 01:26:13,320
partly to help explore what next steps

2481
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:15,560
might look like for communities. So keep

2482
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:16,960
that in mind as we're looking at goals

2483
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:19,200
later that a lot of the early first

2484
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:21,240
steps of developing programs, assessing

2485
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:23,880
data, that was done in 2023. As we were

2486
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:26,000
in this new phase in 2026, we were able

2487
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:28,720
to start taking the next longer-term,

2488
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:30,000
you know, perspective kind of

2489
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:32,950
approaches.

2490
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:34,800
From This is in the packet, so I won't

2491
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:36,000
spend a lot of time, but these are the

2492
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:37,600
list of everyone who This is the list of

2493
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:39,040
everyone who attended from Provo.

2494
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:40,240
Underlined means they were there in the

2495
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:42,000
2023 workshop. You can see a good

2496
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:43,240
portion were.

2497
01:26:43,240 --> 01:26:44,920
Uh there were a few who were unable to

2498
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:47,040
attend, but will be working with this

2499
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:48,560
group moving forward. Just so you can

2500
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:49,920
see, it's very interdepartmental, very

2501
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:51,520
collaborative. We didn't have anyone

2502
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:53,120
from Parks, but we will definitely

2503
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:54,280
continue working with them. They've

2504
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:56,120
always been a good partner in all of our

2505
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:57,080
water

2506
01:26:57,080 --> 01:27:00,430
policies and programs.

2507
01:27:00,440 --> 01:27:01,960
Oh, there's everyone.

2508
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:02,720
>> Yay.

2509
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:05,160
You can see there's a whiteboards

2510
01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:07,120
and sticky notes. It was very intense

2511
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:09,680
collaboration over 2 and 1/2 days.

2512
01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:11,640
All right. So, our goals and strategies,

2513
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:14,520
all of that boiled down to

2514
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:17,280
five long-term goals.

2515
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:18,960
And then with our strategies, these are

2516
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:21,720
kind of paradigm frameworks for how we

2517
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:23,040
were going to approach meeting these

2518
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:26,390
goals.

2519
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:28,120
Oh, and there was one question that

2520
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:30,880
drove these goals and discussions, what

2521
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:33,080
we were trying to resolve and plan for.

2522
01:27:33,080 --> 01:27:34,480
How can we maintain adequate water and

2523
01:27:34,480 --> 01:27:37,080
deliver it as well as Provo continues to

2524
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:39,160
grow?

2525
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:41,680
So, step one in our action plan was

2526
01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:43,200
regional collaboration, including

2527
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:44,520
centralized reuse and graywater,

2528
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:46,440
protecting water rights, water use

2529
01:27:46,440 --> 01:27:49,280
efficiency, continuing to work with our

2530
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:51,560
aquifer councils, and including a state

2531
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:52,920
presence at the legislature. This is

2532
01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:55,640
looking more at securing long-term water

2533
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:57,520
resources,

2534
01:27:57,520 --> 01:27:59,320
making sure You can see the list here. I

2535
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:00,480
won't go into it cuz it's in your packet

2536
01:28:00,480 --> 01:28:02,640
as well. But, multipronged approach to

2537
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:03,960
make sure that we are addressing our

2538
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:06,560
water sources adequately.

2539
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:07,840
And it including graywater where

2540
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:09,000
possible. That's held up a little bit at

2541
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:11,400
the county now, but we're going to try

2542
01:28:11,400 --> 01:28:12,720
to work with the county to incorporate

2543
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:15,280
more of that.

2544
01:28:15,280 --> 01:28:17,640
Uh sustainable funding for our aging

2545
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:19,320
infrastructure looks like ongoing impact

2546
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:21,360
fee assessments as we've talked about um

2547
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,800
and opening up education for candidates

2548
01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:25,000
about water use. So as they're coming

2549
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:26,520
into office or debating about this, they

2550
01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:29,080
can be informed.

2551
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:31,000
Community members are water stewards.

2552
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:33,040
This is looking at uh those water-wise

2553
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:34,800
programs we have, seeing what works,

2554
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:37,040
what's getting the most um engagement,

2555
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:38,440
and what is also most effective,

2556
01:28:38,440 --> 01:28:41,440
refining those. Also exploring different

2557
01:28:41,440 --> 01:28:42,960
opportunities like the uh water-wise

2558
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:45,280
garden opportunity at the water

2559
01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:46,160
treatment plant, the wastewater

2560
01:28:46,160 --> 01:28:48,280
treatment plant. Uh Central Utah Water

2561
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:50,120
Conservancy is also very interested in

2562
01:28:50,120 --> 01:28:51,680
maybe giving us a grant for that so they

2563
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:52,960
can use it and refer people there as

2564
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:54,480
well. So this is where those having

2565
01:28:54,480 --> 01:28:56,480
everyone at the table really really came

2566
01:28:56,480 --> 01:28:58,600
together well.

2567
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:00,040
All right. Thriving community green

2568
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:01,840
space, really straightforward, just

2569
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:03,760
working with the new parks director to

2570
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:06,040
see what we can do with the parks as

2571
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:07,480
thriving green spaces that can also

2572
01:29:07,480 --> 01:29:11,110
educate and conserve water.

2573
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:12,480
All right.

2574
01:29:12,480 --> 01:29:15,120
And the last one, this is number five,

2575
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:16,840
looking at water-wise new development.

2576
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:18,200
So we've looked at sources, we've looked

2577
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:19,840
at our infrastructure for deployment,

2578
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:21,240
we've looked at educating residents on

2579
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:22,640
reducing waste, we've looked at reducing

2580
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:24,840
waste on municipal sites. Now as we're

2581
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:26,800
looking at new developments, how can we

2582
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:29,240
build in those waste reductions from the

2583
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:31,360
beginning? So we're exploring these

2584
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:32,720
options. We want to keep any code

2585
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:35,120
updates pretty minimal and uh

2586
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:37,480
reduce any sort of burden of cost for

2587
01:29:37,480 --> 01:29:39,680
developers and residents. But it could

2588
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:41,360
reduce costs going forward for residents

2589
01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:42,840
as we're looking at increased water

2590
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:47,430
rates as we as this come up. Um

2591
01:29:47,440 --> 01:29:49,160
All right. Our ongoing steps, we are

2592
01:29:49,160 --> 01:29:51,360
continuing to meet after the conference,

2593
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:53,040
we're checking in, we are scheduling our

2594
01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:54,600
next meeting now.

2595
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:56,200
Uh we will continue to collaborate and

2596
01:29:56,200 --> 01:29:57,440
we'll continue to be part of the ongoing

2597
01:29:57,440 --> 01:29:58,440
discussions with our partners,

2598
01:29:58,440 --> 01:30:00,200
especially now that we've reinforced

2599
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:01,600
these ties at this workshop and

2600
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:03,880
networking event.

2601
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:05,760
Any questions?

2602
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:06,600
from you?

2603
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:07,600
>> Any questions? There we go.

2604
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:10,400
>> Um nice work.

2605
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:11,760
>> I was going to ask Elaine a question

2606
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:13,120
just because I told him he put me on the

2607
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:14,200
spot.

2608
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:17,120
Anybody got a good question for Elaine?

2609
01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:19,640
What is Yappify? And Yappify?

2610
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:20,080
>> Oh.

2611
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:20,920
>> What is what?

2612
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:21,760
>> Yappify.

2613
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:24,560
It's I I can answer that

2614
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:28,270
actually. Um

2615
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:30,360
Yappify is an additional software that

2616
01:30:30,360 --> 01:30:32,600
we could integrate with our billing and

2617
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:34,640
metering system so that if someone has

2618
01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:37,680
an abnormally high water bill relative

2619
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:39,280
to others in their neighborhood or

2620
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:41,480
compared to their last month's, it sends

2621
01:30:41,480 --> 01:30:43,480
a message to them directly. Rather than

2622
01:30:43,480 --> 01:30:44,720
them being able to just watch it on the

2623
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:46,760
my usage portal, it proactively notifies

2624
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:48,240
them that there might be something going

2625
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:49,520
on with your system check for leaks.

2626
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:52,520
>> Well, my my feedback on that

2627
01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:56,600
is it doesn't necessarily

2628
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:58,000
when you look at your usage and it

2629
01:30:58,000 --> 01:30:59,520
compares you to other people, we haven't

2630
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:01,000
really gotten a great answer of who it

2631
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:01,960
compared you to.

2632
01:31:01,960 --> 01:31:02,720
>> Mhm.

2633
01:31:02,720 --> 01:31:05,400
>> So, like as long as it can compare you

2634
01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:07,120
to like maybe average a lot so if you're

2635
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:09,480
the same size, that would be more

2636
01:31:09,480 --> 01:31:11,560
beneficial than just whatever

2637
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:13,120
information's out there.

2638
01:31:13,120 --> 01:31:14,920
>> We'll make sure if this is an option we

2639
01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:16,200
choose, it is expensive and it would

2640
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:17,680
take staff time to integrate it with our

2641
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:19,600
existing Cayenta systems, but if that's

2642
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:21,200
an option we choose, then that's that's

2643
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:22,240
definitely something we'll keep in mind.

2644
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:24,240
>> Cuz I can see people needing that and it

2645
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:25,960
just have to be a useful comparison is

2646
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:26,680
my point.

2647
01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:28,080
>> Mhm.

2648
01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:29,800
>> Cuz I don't feel like the way that the

2649
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:32,880
system runs now is a useful comparison.

2650
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:34,880
I'm not even sure who they're comparing

2651
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:35,920
me to,

2652
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,600
but I do know that

2653
01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:41,120
I'm not using the top tier of my water,

2654
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:42,880
which is what it says that I do. You

2655
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:43,640
know what I mean?

2656
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:44,720
>> Yeah.

2657
01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:46,040
I can't speak to the intricacies of that

2658
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:47,840
system, that's run by customer service,

2659
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:50,800
but I know it has identified some leaks, but

2660
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:52,840
probably could be better about providing

2661
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:55,550
context.

2662
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:57,880
Right. Well, thank you so much

2663
01:31:57,880 --> 01:31:59,840
>> One more question. See, I won't you said

2664
01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:03,400
don't think about, you know, the future of this, but I am curious

2665
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:06,880
like when does this process manifest in

2666
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:08,240
some

2667
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:10,040
kind of package of proposed updates that

2668
01:32:10,040 --> 01:32:12,520
you think the council will see?

2669
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:14,120
>> It will certainly come with any sort of

2670
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:16,720
impact fee updates. Largely, these are

2671
01:32:16,720 --> 01:32:18,560
administrative as we're looking at what

2672
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:20,440
pipes to up update, what systems to

2673
01:32:20,440 --> 01:32:22,800
locate, being in conversations with

2674
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:25,320
legislature with the legislature about

2675
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:27,200
our water rights, as we're looking at

2676
01:32:27,200 --> 01:32:29,040
updating residents for programs, those

2677
01:32:29,040 --> 01:32:30,760
are all administrative, those wouldn't

2678
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:32,960
come to council. We can present

2679
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:35,240
information on whatever the council

2680
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:39,800
would like whenever, but this is something that staff has well in

2681
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:40,760
hand.

2682
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:42,400
>> Do we feel like

2683
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:43,120
um

2684
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:44,680
I get

2685
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:46,560
Do we feel like there's any

2686
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:48,400
um

2687
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:50,400
opportunity for code

2688
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:51,720
updates around water?

2689
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:53,200
>> Code updates will absolutely come.

2690
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:54,160
>> Yeah, so okay, that's kind of what I'm

2691
01:32:54,160 --> 01:32:54,720
wondering, like what would be the

2692
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:55,560
timeline for that? That's kind of what

2693
01:32:55,560 --> 01:32:57,080
I'm getting at, for sure.

2694
01:32:57,080 --> 01:32:59,560
>> Uh in our action plan goal, this was

2695
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:03,680
scoped as um depends [clears throat] on what we're

2696
01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:05,360
looking at.

2697
01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:07,720
We could see some early updates in the

2698
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:10,400
next 3 to 6 months, but if we're looking

2699
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:13,680
at anything longer, like the idea of a a

2700
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:15,280
stretch code for water wise development

2701
01:33:15,280 --> 01:33:16,960
was pitched, I don't know if that's

2702
01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:18,520
something we're going to want to do, but

2703
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:20,280
we're going to explore the feasibility.

2704
01:33:20,280 --> 01:33:20,560
>> Okay.

2705
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:22,600
>> So that might or might not come. But

2706
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:24,040
yeah, for the other short-term updates,

2707
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:25,080
3 to 6 months.

2708
01:33:25,080 --> 01:33:27,160
>> Okay, thank you.

2709
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:27,680
>> Thanks. Thanks.

2710
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:29,360
>> Thank you very much.

2711
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:33,230
>> All right, we'll take a break now

2712
01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:38,870
until 2:40.

2713
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:41,920
» Recording stopped.

2714
01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:44,640
Recording in progress.

2715
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:46,960
>> All right, we are back.

2716
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:47,840
Next we're going to order some new

2717
01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:49,680
property code regarding the requirements

2718
01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:52,160
of an agricultural protection area. This

2719
01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:54,600
will be presented by Jessica Dinny

2720
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:59,670
Danicky.

2721
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:01,720
Thank you. Um yes, so this is an

2722
01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:03,600
ordinance text amendment to amend the

2723
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:05,800
area requirement for agricultural

2724
01:34:05,800 --> 01:34:09,320
protection area from 5 acres to 1.

2725
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:11,520
Um and it also removes the requirement

2726
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:14,920
for the properties to be receiving

2727
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:18,000
the green belt tax.

2728
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:20,160
Uh and apparently it's very suspicious.

2729
01:34:20,160 --> 01:34:32,430
So, never mind.

2730
01:34:32,440 --> 01:34:34,000
» Apparently, AI doesn't want this to go

2731
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:36,120
through.

2732
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:40,470
>> Well, we got to trust AI.

2733
01:34:40,480 --> 01:34:44,150
Okay.

2734
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:44,810
Um

2735
01:34:44,810 --> 01:34:45,240
>> [clears throat]

2736
01:34:45,240 --> 01:34:47,160
>> So, the these are the the changes that

2737
01:34:47,160 --> 01:34:49,200
we're proposing to be made.

2738
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:49,920
Um

2739
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:51,680
Nope, it really does not want me to go

2740
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:53,520
to the next slide.

2741
01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:55,880
Um the next slide, when it is available

2742
01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:58,400
to be seen, is going to show the

2743
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:00,640
requirements that an agricultural

2744
01:35:00,640 --> 01:35:03,520
protection area has to meet to be

2745
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:04,880
approved.

2746
01:35:04,880 --> 01:35:07,120
Um we are, as I said, proposing to

2747
01:35:07,120 --> 01:35:08,800
remove that requirement for green belt

2748
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:10,520
tax. Um

2749
01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:12,240
mostly because green belt does require

2750
01:35:12,240 --> 01:35:14,760
that there's 5 acres of land, where our

2751
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:17,080
agricultural zones allow a lot size of 1

2752
01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:18,360
acre.

2753
01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:22,000
Here's the second slide. Um

2754
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:23,400
So,

2755
01:35:23,400 --> 01:35:24,720
as part of planning commission, there

2756
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:27,240
was a lot of discussion about the 5-acre

2757
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:29,080
requirement or bringing it down to 1

2758
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:31,760
acre, if that was too small.

2759
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:33,120
Um

2760
01:35:33,120 --> 01:35:35,800
and there was confusion over the green

2761
01:35:35,800 --> 01:35:39,280
belt requirement. Um my understanding,

2762
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:40,760
and I had some help from Becky here, she

2763
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:41,960
gave me some wonderful contact

2764
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:44,320
information. There is green belt and

2765
01:35:44,320 --> 01:35:46,320
there's urban farming. Green belt

2766
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:49,320
requires 5 acres, urban farming is

2767
01:35:49,320 --> 01:35:51,440
almost exact same tax benefit, but it

2768
01:35:51,440 --> 01:35:53,680
requires only one acre of land.

2769
01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:54,480
>> Now?

2770
01:35:54,480 --> 01:35:54,840
>> Mhm.

2771
01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:56,560
>> Uh yes, and those are both handled

2772
01:35:56,560 --> 01:35:58,171
through the county. They're 100%

2773
01:35:58,171 --> 01:36:00,920
[clears throat] county applications. Um

2774
01:36:00,920 --> 01:36:02,960
>> And that's why they want us to why we

2775
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:05,200
would change this to benefit that one

2776
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:07,440
acre of county situation to like the

2777
01:36:07,440 --> 01:36:08,880
>> To make it more available to people.

2778
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:09,520
>> Yeah.

2779
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:12,560
>> Are the Didn't the farming agricultural

2780
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:13,960
commission

2781
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:15,280
ask for something like this?

2782
01:36:15,280 --> 01:36:15,840
>> Yes.

2783
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:16,880
>> And the reason why I don't have

2784
01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:18,560
heartburn with it is because the county

2785
01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:20,080
already has things that

2786
01:36:20,080 --> 01:36:21,960
>> Right. So

2787
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:23,600
And from what I understand from one to

2788
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:25,600
five acres that have irrigation.

2789
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:26,840
So

2790
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:30,480
to me it doesn't give me any heartburn.

2791
01:36:30,480 --> 01:36:32,960
>> So we are removing that requirement that

2792
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:35,680
they are receiving the tax benefits. Um

2793
01:36:35,680 --> 01:36:38,800
so they they don't have to

2794
01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:40,440
apply for those and get reviewed for

2795
01:36:40,440 --> 01:36:42,320
those. These are the only criteria that

2796
01:36:42,320 --> 01:36:43,960
they'll have to meet.

2797
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:44,960
Um

2798
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:46,760
this application gets reviewed three

2799
01:36:46,760 --> 01:36:48,720
times, once by planning commission, once

2800
01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:50,800
by the county agricultural advisory

2801
01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:52,840
board, and then US City Council.

2802
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:54,400
>> anybody coming wanting to come in an

2803
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:55,600
agricultural protection area?

2804
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:56,880
>> Correct. Yes.

2805
01:36:56,880 --> 01:36:59,160
And US City Council would make the final

2806
01:36:59,160 --> 01:37:01,240
recommendation.

2807
01:37:01,240 --> 01:37:03,000
Um

2808
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:07,120
and then lastly it's just kidding.

2809
01:37:07,120 --> 01:37:08,120
Um

2810
01:37:08,120 --> 01:37:10,240
there are several benefits of being in

2811
01:37:10,240 --> 01:37:11,960
an agricultural protection area, which

2812
01:37:11,960 --> 01:37:14,040
is why the agricultural committee is is

2813
01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:16,600
excited about having this opportunity.

2814
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:19,000
Um so these are just the benefits that

2815
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:20,880
come when a property owner uh is

2816
01:37:20,880 --> 01:37:22,520
approved to be in an agricultural

2817
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:24,160
protection area.

2818
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:25,040
>> Okay.

2819
01:37:25,040 --> 01:37:26,200
>> Uh is there any questions?

2820
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:27,920
>> Thank you. Any Counselor Whitlock?

2821
01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:29,600
>> I just

2822
01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:31,480
I I can't recall this from the packet if

2823
01:37:31,480 --> 01:37:33,320
it was there. Does

2824
01:37:33,320 --> 01:37:34,200
So

2825
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:34,960
um

2826
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:36,560
each individual property owner applies,

2827
01:37:36,560 --> 01:37:37,840
correct?

2828
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:39,000
>> There can be There can be

2829
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:40,280
>> it be like a group? It can be either

2830
01:37:40,280 --> 01:37:40,680
one.

2831
01:37:40,680 --> 01:37:41,080
>> Yeah.

2832
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:41,520
>> Yes.

2833
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:42,120
>> It can go either way.

2834
01:37:42,120 --> 01:37:44,080
>> So I can either apply with several other

2835
01:37:44,080 --> 01:37:45,480
adjacent Do they have to be adjacent or

2836
01:37:45,480 --> 01:37:47,040
can it be like any all

2837
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:50,240
>> The area requirement is is contiguous.

2838
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:52,080
Um so if we bring our requirement down

2839
01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:54,040
to 1 acre, there would have to be a

2840
01:37:54,040 --> 01:37:56,360
total of 1 acre of land. It could be

2841
01:37:56,360 --> 01:37:59,280
technically half acre and half acre, but

2842
01:37:59,280 --> 01:38:01,640
>> our agricultural zone requires a minimum

2843
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:03,800
lot size of 1 acre. So the likelihood is

2844
01:38:03,800 --> 01:38:06,560
it would be at minimum one property

2845
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:08,640
owner, but it could be 20 acres.

2846
01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:11,160
>> be 20 contiguous acres all together.

2847
01:38:11,160 --> 01:38:12,240
>> four owners, yeah.

2848
01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:15,200
>> Okay. All right, thank you.

2849
01:38:15,200 --> 01:38:17,480
>> Okay, any other questions for Jessica?

2850
01:38:17,480 --> 01:38:19,040
>> I have one more question, sorry.

2851
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:21,160
>> Is there any like Okay, so if the A if

2852
01:38:21,160 --> 01:38:26,750
this APA gets approved, are there any um

2853
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:28,200
is there any

2854
01:38:28,200 --> 01:38:30,040
uh what's the right word? Um

2855
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:31,560
if there is a legitimate nuisance

2856
01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:34,880
concern right adjacent to

2857
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:38,520
uh residential, like is there any uh

2858
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:40,120
thing that the residential can do or

2859
01:38:40,120 --> 01:38:41,240
that's just like fully protected? Is

2860
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:43,040
there any buffer space? Is just I'm just

2861
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:44,360
curious how that works in practice.

2862
01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:47,200
>> In the code, there's not a buffer space.

2863
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:49,720
This is more intending to protect

2864
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:51,760
existing agricultural uses from

2865
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:53,040
encroaching development.

2866
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:53,520
>> Yeah.

2867
01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:55,720
>> So the likelihood of someone

2868
01:38:55,720 --> 01:38:57,520
buying up a bunch of land that's zoned

2869
01:38:57,520 --> 01:38:59,040
residential, getting it rezoned to

2870
01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:00,880
agriculture, and then starting something

2871
01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:02,520
in the middle of a subdivision.

2872
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:03,760
>> I'm kind of asking the other. I'm saying

2873
01:39:03,760 --> 01:39:05,520
like let's say for example, there is an

2874
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:07,640
existing agricultural parcel right next

2875
01:39:07,640 --> 01:39:10,960
to a land that is slated to be developed

2876
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:12,760
as uh residential.

2877
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:14,280
>> Yeah.

2878
01:39:14,280 --> 01:39:18,960
So anything that any like odor, no noise

2879
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:21,000
like it says, odor, noise, dust,

2880
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:22,920
anything that's related to agricultural

2881
01:39:22,920 --> 01:39:23,800
activity,

2882
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:25,280
>> if that is that is protected.

2883
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:26,240
>> That is what you get for moving there.

2884
01:39:26,240 --> 01:39:28,640
>> That's you moved next to a farm, you

2885
01:39:28,640 --> 01:39:30,640
should expect farm-related activities.

2886
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:31,000
>> Woah.

2887
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:33,040
>> Councilor Whitlock, with with the with

2888
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:34,960
the caveat that it's

2889
01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:37,000
normal, reasonable agricultural

2890
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:39,200
practices. We had one several years ago

2891
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:41,720
where we had a farmer who was

2892
01:39:41,720 --> 01:39:43,800
going up to uh

2893
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,480
What was the name of the dairy in Orm?

2894
01:39:46,480 --> 01:39:47,040
>> Yeah.

2895
01:39:47,040 --> 01:39:50,400
>> And he was he was filling uh large like,

2896
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:52,560
you know, large containers full of

2897
01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:54,760
spoiled ice cream

2898
01:39:54,760 --> 01:39:57,200
hauling them down to his farm without a

2899
01:39:57,200 --> 01:40:00,520
lid on the on the trailer, spilling it

2900
01:40:00,520 --> 01:40:02,200
all over the road, dumping it into a

2901
01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:05,160
trough that his cows were drinking out

2902
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:07,120
of while they stood in it. It was

2903
01:40:07,120 --> 01:40:11,960
attracting raccoons, rats, for anyway.

2904
01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:14,440
They in that particular case

2905
01:40:14,440 --> 01:40:17,080
we we could argue we Now, the the

2906
01:40:17,080 --> 01:40:19,720
neighborhood the neighbors would have to

2907
01:40:19,720 --> 01:40:21,440
go hire an attorney, they'd have to find

2908
01:40:21,440 --> 01:40:23,600
an expert, but if you could find a an

2909
01:40:23,600 --> 01:40:25,800
agricultural expert who said that's not

2910
01:40:25,800 --> 01:40:27,720
a standard practice

2911
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:30,520
a nuisance claim could still uh give

2912
01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:31,720
rise to that.

2913
01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:34,200
>> What about these like damage? Like if I

2914
01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:35,720
don't know. This is

2915
01:40:35,720 --> 01:40:37,160
maybe a silly example, but a bull

2916
01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:39,120
charges the fence

2917
01:40:39,120 --> 01:40:41,160
and it breaks the fence.

2918
01:40:41,160 --> 01:40:42,640
>> Um

2919
01:40:42,640 --> 01:40:45,200
well, yeah, again there's an I mean,

2920
01:40:45,200 --> 01:40:47,320
that's different than nuisance, right?

2921
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:47,760
Um

2922
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:48,800
>> That's property damage.

2923
01:40:48,800 --> 01:40:50,080
>> Yeah, so that there you've got a

2924
01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:51,960
different cause of action and then it's

2925
01:40:51,960 --> 01:40:54,040
going to become your standard legal

2926
01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:56,920
theories of was there a duty?

2927
01:40:56,920 --> 01:40:58,520
Did was there was the duty not

2928
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:01,240
reasonably upheld? Did that reasonable

2929
01:41:01,240 --> 01:41:03,440
fail unreasonable failure cause the

2930
01:41:03,440 --> 01:41:05,080
damage, right? So, then you're just in

2931
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:06,320
regular tort law.

2932
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:07,920
>> So, I can tell you

2933
01:41:07,920 --> 01:41:09,680
for fact

2934
01:41:09,680 --> 01:41:12,000
that normally the problem that we have

2935
01:41:12,000 --> 01:41:13,880
is the other way around.

2936
01:41:13,880 --> 01:41:16,280
You have people's dogs that come and

2937
01:41:16,280 --> 01:41:17,320
kill the chickens.

2938
01:41:17,320 --> 01:41:17,960
>> Yeah.

2939
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:20,320
>> Dogs that come and harass the cattle.

2940
01:41:20,320 --> 01:41:22,280
Kids that trespass on property that

2941
01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:24,680
shouldn't be there or even adults. Those

2942
01:41:24,680 --> 01:41:26,200
are more of the problems that my farmers

2943
01:41:26,200 --> 01:41:28,480
have rather than

2944
01:41:28,480 --> 01:41:29,400
the other way around.

2945
01:41:29,400 --> 01:41:30,600
>> Yeah, it makes sense. I grew up in

2946
01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:32,520
Gilbert, Arizona on an acre and a half

2947
01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:33,760
in a farming community and that's

2948
01:41:33,760 --> 01:41:35,360
clearly what we experienced. We'd always

2949
01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:37,880
get annoyed when the town the the homes

2950
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:39,240
would come in and they'd complain and

2951
01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:40,720
try and create all sorts of nuisances

2952
01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:42,080
for the farm. So, I totally totally get

2953
01:41:42,080 --> 01:41:43,040
that. I was just curious about the other

2954
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:45,280
way.

2955
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:46,960
>> So, we have had like the pig farmer

2956
01:41:46,960 --> 01:41:49,120
incident in the That was by my house,

2957
01:41:49,120 --> 01:41:51,240
the cream stuff.

2958
01:41:51,240 --> 01:41:52,920
The smell is awful.

2959
01:41:52,920 --> 01:41:54,560
But, you know, those those things are

2960
01:41:54,560 --> 01:41:57,400
realer. But, but it's more the dog

2961
01:41:57,400 --> 01:41:59,600
killing the chickens and stuff like

2962
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:01,000
>> The cow tipping, do we get to cow

2963
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:02,600
tipping in Provo ever?

2964
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:05,040
>> It's more like the kids go south of the

2965
01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:07,640
parkway and get stuck and then they have

2966
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:08,760
to

2967
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:12,040
beg some farmer and pay him 50 bucks to

2968
01:42:12,040 --> 01:42:15,710
get him out of the bog.

2969
01:42:15,720 --> 01:42:17,400
» All right. Any other questions for

2970
01:42:17,400 --> 01:42:19,240
Jessica?

2971
01:42:19,240 --> 01:42:21,840
Okay, thanks, Jessica.

2972
01:42:21,840 --> 01:42:23,240
All right, next we have an ordinance

2973
01:42:23,240 --> 01:42:24,880
amending Provo City parking standards

2974
01:42:24,880 --> 01:42:27,480
for specific uses and locations.

2975
01:42:27,480 --> 01:42:29,120
This will be presented by Aaron Ardmore,

2976
01:42:29,120 --> 01:42:34,990
our planning manager.

2977
01:42:35,000 --> 01:42:36,000
» Oh.

2978
01:42:36,000 --> 01:42:37,080
>> I'm just going to give some background

2979
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:39,560
and context and then Aaron will

2980
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:41,400
walk you through the actual amendments.

2981
01:42:41,400 --> 01:42:43,000
Um, so as you know, the amendments have

2982
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:44,560
to do with

2983
01:42:44,560 --> 01:42:46,200
the ratio of student housing in

2984
01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:49,200
proximity to uh BYU campus, the ratio of

2985
01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:50,880
parking for

2986
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:53,360
housing in proximity to um mass transit,

2987
01:42:53,360 --> 01:42:54,520
and then

2988
01:42:54,520 --> 01:42:55,880
the ability to count off-site parking

2989
01:42:55,880 --> 01:42:58,320
for residential uses.

2990
01:42:58,320 --> 01:42:59,920
For the student [clears throat] housing

2991
01:42:59,920 --> 01:43:01,800
issue or topic,

2992
01:43:01,800 --> 01:43:04,400
we've all sat through

2993
01:43:04,400 --> 01:43:06,040
many meetings over the years, last two

2994
01:43:06,040 --> 01:43:07,800
years, where our council members have

2995
01:43:07,800 --> 01:43:09,640
expressed a desire

2996
01:43:09,640 --> 01:43:12,880
for redevelopment around BYU campus, for

2997
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:15,840
more BYU housing, student housing, and

2998
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:18,360
higher density student housing.

2999
01:43:18,360 --> 01:43:20,000
Um

3000
01:43:20,000 --> 01:43:21,760
Staff is aware of four projects right

3001
01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:23,720
now that are on the drawing board.

3002
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:25,520
Um

3003
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:26,640
that

3004
01:43:26,640 --> 01:43:28,320
um are waiting to see what happens with

3005
01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:31,640
this amendment. Um

3006
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:36,110
One project would relate to the um

3007
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:38,000
proximity to transit. That's the Bill

3008
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:39,800
Harris block.

3009
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:41,640
Um we'd all like to see that redevelop.

3010
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:43,640
One of those projects is Park Plaza,

3011
01:43:43,640 --> 01:43:45,400
which again we would all like to see

3012
01:43:45,400 --> 01:43:46,800
redevelop.

3013
01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:48,600
Um

3014
01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:50,480
the two biggest factors holding back

3015
01:43:50,480 --> 01:43:53,520
these projects are our parking ratio,

3016
01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:55,520
current parking ratio, and simply the

3017
01:43:55,520 --> 01:43:57,480
high cost of providing what has to be

3018
01:43:57,480 --> 01:43:58,800
structured parking when you're talking

3019
01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:01,480
about higher densities.

3020
01:44:01,480 --> 01:44:03,440
Colwest, which is the company that owns

3021
01:44:03,440 --> 01:44:06,000
the Park Plaza building, they're

3022
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:09,080
partners in ownership of buildings at

3023
01:44:09,080 --> 01:44:11,200
the University of Oregon, the University

3024
01:44:11,200 --> 01:44:14,640
of Michigan, Wisconsin, Clemson, and the

3025
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:16,520
U of U.

3026
01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:18,440
Of all of those universities, the

3027
01:44:18,440 --> 01:44:21,600
highest parking ratio is Clemson at .51.

3028
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:23,280
So, .51

3029
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:26,040
parking spaces per student or bed.

3030
01:44:26,040 --> 01:44:29,870
Utah's .24.

3031
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:32,040
In terms of proximity to the UVU state

3032
01:44:32,040 --> 01:44:34,240
to UVX stations,

3033
01:44:34,240 --> 01:44:36,200
as you know, we've already adopted the

3034
01:44:36,200 --> 01:44:38,320
station area plans.

3035
01:44:38,320 --> 01:44:39,880
And

3036
01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:41,280
um

3037
01:44:41,280 --> 01:44:43,680
best practices in city planning across

3038
01:44:43,680 --> 01:44:45,040
the country

3039
01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:46,880
calls for reduced parking in proximity

3040
01:44:46,880 --> 01:44:48,400
to transit. That's not the exception to

3041
01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:49,760
the rule anymore.

3042
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:52,920
These days that is the rule.

3043
01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:54,600
Uh Salt Lake City has no minimums in

3044
01:44:54,600 --> 01:44:57,080
their transit-oriented areas. They allow

3045
01:44:57,080 --> 01:44:59,160
the developer to decide what that is. In

3046
01:44:59,160 --> 01:45:01,800
Orem, it's a 50% reduction.

3047
01:45:01,800 --> 01:45:03,120
Uh Orem doesn't have transit running

3048
01:45:03,120 --> 01:45:04,280
right through their community like we

3049
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:06,200
do, but where they do have transit, they

3050
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:09,680
allow for the 50% reduction.

3051
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:11,720
Um staff has asked several developers to

3052
01:45:11,720 --> 01:45:14,080
come to tonight's meeting and to address

3053
01:45:14,080 --> 01:45:16,240
what can be done, what they intend to

3054
01:45:16,240 --> 01:45:18,200
do, or what they have done already to

3055
01:45:18,200 --> 01:45:20,560
reduce parking demand on site, and to

3056
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:22,760
guarantee proper management so the city

3057
01:45:22,760 --> 01:45:24,800
doesn't have to deal with impacts of

3058
01:45:24,800 --> 01:45:26,920
spillover parking.

3059
01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:27,880
Um

3060
01:45:27,880 --> 01:45:28,960
we're all anxious to hear what they have

3061
01:45:28,960 --> 01:45:31,160
to say and I think um, hopefully they

3062
01:45:31,160 --> 01:45:33,000
have they have some good ideas that we

3063
01:45:33,000 --> 01:45:38,310
can adopt.

3064
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:41,360
You all are aware of the um,

3065
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:43,520
blank lot, vacant lot across the street

3066
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:46,080
from Park Plaza, right? That's the Brick

3067
01:45:46,080 --> 01:45:48,360
Yard project. That went all the way to

3068
01:45:48,360 --> 01:45:50,120
the point of getting it being ready to

3069
01:45:50,120 --> 01:45:52,160
have a building permit issued.

3070
01:45:52,160 --> 01:45:54,160
So, they spent tens of thousands of

3071
01:45:54,160 --> 01:45:56,680
dollars just on the building plans, much

3072
01:45:56,680 --> 01:45:58,480
less getting through all the stuff

3073
01:45:58,480 --> 01:46:00,720
before you even get to go to plans.

3074
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:02,440
It hasn't been built. That is a project

3075
01:46:02,440 --> 01:46:03,760
where

3076
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:06,000
it provided full parking.

3077
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:07,560
And now the economics don't work once

3078
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:09,600
you actually design the building that

3079
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:12,960
way and try to go get financing on it.

3080
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:14,360
Uh, Dave Cabanell who's built many

3081
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:16,200
projects in Provo

3082
01:46:16,200 --> 01:46:19,480
had the property just east of the old

3083
01:46:19,480 --> 01:46:21,120
women's gym. You were you old women's

3084
01:46:21,120 --> 01:46:24,360
gym. Just west, sorry, thank you.

3085
01:46:24,360 --> 01:46:27,280
Along Fifth 500 North and 100 West.

3086
01:46:27,280 --> 01:46:29,120
Um,

3087
01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:33,240
that was 86 units, apartment units.

3088
01:46:33,240 --> 01:46:34,600
Again, structured parking glued the

3089
01:46:34,600 --> 01:46:36,800
project and so now we're getting 24 town

3090
01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:38,880
homes there. Now, town homes are great.

3091
01:46:38,880 --> 01:46:40,000
I'm glad we're getting town homes.

3092
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:42,120
They're going to be for sale. So, when

3093
01:46:42,120 --> 01:46:44,200
but we lost 60 units. We lost 60

3094
01:46:44,200 --> 01:46:46,240
dwelling units in area that we had

3095
01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:48,720
previously decided we'd really like to

3096
01:46:48,720 --> 01:46:51,320
get more housing, more density.

3097
01:46:51,320 --> 01:46:53,320
So, this is having real impacts on

3098
01:46:53,320 --> 01:46:56,480
projects and at um, people now again,

3099
01:46:56,480 --> 01:46:58,360
it's not just an economic issue, it's a

3100
01:46:58,360 --> 01:47:00,840
manage it's an issue of management.

3101
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:02,040
And those who are going those projects

3102
01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:03,960
need to explain to us how they're going

3103
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:06,800
to manage lower parking ratios. So, I'll

3104
01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:08,920
just now turn over to Aaron and I can

3105
01:47:08,920 --> 01:47:10,000
answer any questions you have about the

3106
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:11,240
ordinance itself and walk you through

3107
01:47:11,240 --> 01:47:11,800
that.

3108
01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:12,440
>> Thanks, Bill.

3109
01:47:12,440 --> 01:47:14,440
>> Bill, do you happen to know um, the

3110
01:47:14,440 --> 01:47:16,160
project

3111
01:47:16,160 --> 01:47:19,960
south of the coal park on the um,

3112
01:47:19,960 --> 01:47:22,120
west side of Main Street

3113
01:47:22,120 --> 01:47:23,920
and it's right on the sidewalk. It's six

3114
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:26,240
stories. They have underground parking.

3115
01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:27,840
What's that address you know?

3116
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:29,640
Do you know that project? It was built

3117
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:30,800
10 years ago.

3118
01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:32,720
>> They don't have enough parking by far. I

3119
01:47:32,720 --> 01:47:35,680
know a couple people who live there.

3120
01:47:35,680 --> 01:47:37,120
I don't know what the ratio is.

3121
01:47:37,120 --> 01:47:38,120
>> I'd have to look it up. I don't

3122
01:47:38,120 --> 01:47:39,880
remember. I used to keep tallies on all

3123
01:47:39,880 --> 01:47:41,760
the projects I received, but I just

3124
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:44,040
haven't looked at that in years. I'm

3125
01:47:44,040 --> 01:47:45,080
sorry.

3126
01:47:45,080 --> 01:47:49,550
I can find that out for you though.

3127
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:50,000
» Let me

3128
01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:51,360
>> political nuance.

3129
01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:53,520
>> Um yeah, that'd be great. So, I guess

3130
01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:55,480
with that, are there any questions that

3131
01:47:55,480 --> 01:47:57,840
you'd like staff to answer now or

3132
01:47:57,840 --> 01:48:02,590
prepare to answer later tonight?

3133
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:04,120
» Um

3134
01:48:04,120 --> 01:48:06,080
>> Go ahead.

3135
01:48:06,080 --> 01:48:08,840
>> Let's speak about the situation where

3136
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:10,440
they can park different places than on

3137
01:48:10,440 --> 01:48:12,000
the premises. Can we go over that

3138
01:48:12,000 --> 01:48:12,680
statute?

3139
01:48:12,680 --> 01:48:14,560
>> Yeah, so currently

3140
01:48:14,560 --> 01:48:15,240
uh

3141
01:48:15,240 --> 01:48:17,320
only commercial uses, industrial and

3142
01:48:17,320 --> 01:48:20,640
commercial uses can use off-site parking

3143
01:48:20,640 --> 01:48:22,560
within distance.

3144
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:25,160
In downtown, it's a larger distance.

3145
01:48:25,160 --> 01:48:28,480
Outside of downtown, it's it's 200 ft.

3146
01:48:28,480 --> 01:48:30,240
The idea [clears throat] here is to open

3147
01:48:30,240 --> 01:48:32,000
that up a little bit more, kind of take

3148
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:34,240
a baby step to allow multi-family to

3149
01:48:34,240 --> 01:48:39,000
come into that. Uh still allow or still

3150
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:40,320
have single-family, duplex,

3151
01:48:40,320 --> 01:48:42,560
multi-family, townhouses

3152
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:44,440
have to park on their actual property

3153
01:48:44,440 --> 01:48:45,800
on-site.

3154
01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:48,360
Um but pulling in multi-family allows us

3155
01:48:48,360 --> 01:48:50,680
to get these apartment projects another

3156
01:48:50,680 --> 01:48:52,520
option. If they're able to find a

3157
01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:55,320
property that's has extra space or it's

3158
01:48:55,320 --> 01:48:57,800
not being used, there's vacant, they can

3159
01:48:57,800 --> 01:49:00,360
improve that parking lot

3160
01:49:00,360 --> 01:49:01,120
um

3161
01:49:01,120 --> 01:49:04,800
to to kind of sub in for space limits

3162
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:06,560
that they have on their site.

3163
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:08,560
Um there's criteria with that. You have

3164
01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:10,440
to do a traffic report on it. You have

3165
01:49:10,440 --> 01:49:12,560
to be responsible financially

3166
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:13,880
and liable for anything that happens on

3167
01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:16,360
the on that adjacent parking lot. You

3168
01:49:16,360 --> 01:49:17,840
have to record

3169
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:19,240
things at the county if you don't own

3170
01:49:19,240 --> 01:49:19,960
both of them.

3171
01:49:19,960 --> 01:49:22,120
>> Okay. Okay, so that's what he So, how do

3172
01:49:22,120 --> 01:49:24,240
you connect the two together that they

3173
01:49:24,240 --> 01:49:25,760
just don't develop the parking lot in a

3174
01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:27,040
year or something?

3175
01:49:27,040 --> 01:49:28,480
>> Right. Right. So,

3176
01:49:28,480 --> 01:49:28,960
>> set up legally.

3177
01:49:28,960 --> 01:49:33,120
>> So, that if if it's the same owner,

3178
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:35,680
it's it's through that that approval

3179
01:49:35,680 --> 01:49:37,320
agreement. And if it's a different

3180
01:49:37,320 --> 01:49:38,880
owner, it's through a lease. It's

3181
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:40,520
recorded at the at the Uintah County

3182
01:49:40,520 --> 01:49:41,720
Recorder's Office.

3183
01:49:41,720 --> 01:49:44,120
>> Okay. So, is that something Brian you've

3184
01:49:44,120 --> 01:49:47,720
worked on to make sure that's tight?

3185
01:49:47,720 --> 01:49:49,720
>> Say that again. The

3186
01:49:49,720 --> 01:49:51,520
>> Just making sure that if it's parking

3187
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:53,800
off-site that

3188
01:49:53,800 --> 01:49:55,560
the off-site parking can't be sold in a

3189
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:58,080
year and developed, that that parking uh

3190
01:49:58,080 --> 01:50:01,320
goes with the housing in perpetuity.

3191
01:50:01,320 --> 01:50:04,760
>> Yeah. Can you scroll up? Yeah, so we're

3192
01:50:04,760 --> 01:50:05,360
Kevin.

3193
01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:08,440
>> Or in 080

3194
01:50:08,440 --> 01:50:11,880
Well, actually the the last page. Keep

3195
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:13,880
>> Keep going.

3196
01:50:13,880 --> 01:50:17,710
>> Okay.

3197
01:50:17,720 --> 01:50:20,640
look a little bit farther.

3198
01:50:20,640 --> 01:50:22,480
So, uh

3199
01:50:22,480 --> 01:50:25,360
in two

3200
01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:27,280
That should be a C instead of a We're

3201
01:50:27,280 --> 01:50:30,480
going to renumber that. Okay, in two C

3202
01:50:30,480 --> 01:50:32,360
uh an applicant for an exception has to

3203
01:50:32,360 --> 01:50:34,280
record their lease with the county

3204
01:50:34,280 --> 01:50:35,800
recorder demonstrating that they have

3205
01:50:35,800 --> 01:50:37,720
lawful use of the lot.

3206
01:50:37,720 --> 01:50:40,840
So, now that doesn't mean that

3207
01:50:40,840 --> 01:50:41,880
>> It's not restrictive.

3208
01:50:41,880 --> 01:50:42,360
>> Yeah.

3209
01:50:42,360 --> 01:50:44,680
>> I mean, they have to do that in order in

3210
01:50:44,680 --> 01:50:46,680
order to apply.

3211
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:49,120
Um that doesn't mean that the situation

3212
01:50:49,120 --> 01:50:52,280
can't change later, but if they if they

3213
01:50:52,280 --> 01:50:54,760
if it changes, then they're not eligible

3214
01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:55,960
for the permit anymore. I mean, they've

3215
01:50:55,960 --> 01:50:57,240
got to get a permit from the Planning

3216
01:50:57,240 --> 01:50:59,240
Commission. So, we'll just revoke that

3217
01:50:59,240 --> 01:51:00,360
permit.

3218
01:51:00,360 --> 01:51:01,160
>> But what if [clears throat] they're the

3219
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:02,640
house is already the multi-units already

3220
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:04,480
built, it's done, and

3221
01:51:04,480 --> 01:51:06,200
2 years later they develop it into

3222
01:51:06,200 --> 01:51:08,720
another apartment complex?

3223
01:51:08,720 --> 01:51:11,440
>> In in my opinion, I'll think about that.

3224
01:51:11,440 --> 01:51:12,480
Um

3225
01:51:12,480 --> 01:51:14,320
that has to go through at least project

3226
01:51:14,320 --> 01:51:16,000
plan, building permits, all of those

3227
01:51:16,000 --> 01:51:18,640
processes with the city, right?

3228
01:51:18,640 --> 01:51:20,920
We know that that is being used for

3229
01:51:20,920 --> 01:51:23,240
parking for this building over here.

3230
01:51:23,240 --> 01:51:24,800
We're going to have to say, well, this

3231
01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:26,880
can't move forward until you help this

3232
01:51:26,880 --> 01:51:30,920
guy find more parking, right? So, you're not going to be able to reduce

3233
01:51:30,920 --> 01:51:33,080
and that's in code 1437 as well. You

3234
01:51:33,080 --> 01:51:36,840
can't reduce your existing parking. Um

3235
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:38,320
haphazardly like that. You have to go

3236
01:51:38,320 --> 01:51:39,720
through the processes.

3237
01:51:39,720 --> 01:51:40,160
>> Okay.

3238
01:51:40,160 --> 01:51:43,640
>> Is there Is there a related risk where

3239
01:51:43,640 --> 01:51:44,840
cuz I assume you

3240
01:51:44,840 --> 01:51:46,800
there'd be some kind of lease agreement

3241
01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:48,640
between the apartment and

3242
01:51:48,640 --> 01:51:50,960
>> Well, they could own it. If they If they

3243
01:51:50,960 --> 01:51:51,880
But if they didn't own it, they could

3244
01:51:51,880 --> 01:51:52,400
>> Yeah, they didn't own

3245
01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:53,880
>> If they don't own it, they have to have

3246
01:51:53,880 --> 01:51:54,480
a lease agreement.

3247
01:51:54,480 --> 01:51:58,320
>> So, like I guess maybe that would be an alternative problem is like if they

3248
01:51:58,320 --> 01:51:59,640
had a lease agreement and they're not

3249
01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:01,440
the owner and then they lease agreement

3250
01:52:01,440 --> 01:52:05,550
gets terminated.

3251
01:52:05,560 --> 01:52:07,000
» Yeah, that's an interesting question. I

3252
01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:10,000
mean, the right now this just says and

3253
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:11,640
this is

3254
01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:12,960
Now, the interesting thing here is this

3255
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:15,760
looks like it's new, but it's actually

3256
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:17,520
just getting moved from elsewhere in the

3257
01:52:17,520 --> 01:52:18,680
code.

3258
01:52:18,680 --> 01:52:20,200
Um

3259
01:52:20,200 --> 01:52:21,560
Is that right or is it

3260
01:52:21,560 --> 01:52:23,480
>> Some of Some of it is Some of it is new,

3261
01:52:23,480 --> 01:52:24,080
some of it is not.

3262
01:52:24,080 --> 01:52:26,280
>> rewrite?

3263
01:52:26,280 --> 01:52:29,360
>> Uh this this specific section is new.

3264
01:52:29,360 --> 01:52:31,440
Like this uh 2C.

3265
01:52:31,440 --> 01:52:33,040
>> Okay, but we had worked on it in the

3266
01:52:33,040 --> 01:52:35,160
rewrite. So, so it was going in

3267
01:52:35,160 --> 01:52:37,160
somewhere in the rewrite anyway.

3268
01:52:37,160 --> 01:52:39,360
So, um

3269
01:52:39,360 --> 01:52:41,480
yeah, it's a good question cuz we're

3270
01:52:41,480 --> 01:52:42,920
suggesting that they have to record a

3271
01:52:42,920 --> 01:52:45,920
lease, but even then, I mean

3272
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:46,760
>> So, what if we just

3273
01:52:46,760 --> 01:52:48,440
>> maximum period for the lease is going to

3274
01:52:48,440 --> 01:52:50,840
be 99 years anyway and probably won't be

3275
01:52:50,840 --> 01:52:52,480
that long. So,

3276
01:52:52,480 --> 01:52:53,840
we're granting them that permanent

3277
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:54,560
exception.

3278
01:52:54,560 --> 01:52:56,400
>> We'll have flying cars or self-driving

3279
01:52:56,400 --> 01:52:58,360
cars in 99 years. This is a 20-year

3280
01:52:58,360 --> 01:53:00,560
problem, 25-year problem.

3281
01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:02,520
>> Could we Could we just make it that they

3282
01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:03,720
had to own it and leases aren't

3283
01:53:03,720 --> 01:53:06,910
acceptable?

3284
01:53:06,920 --> 01:53:08,960
» Well, we would like to use existing

3285
01:53:08,960 --> 01:53:11,480
parking facilities more efficiently.

3286
01:53:11,480 --> 01:53:13,600
There is a parking lot that's vacant a

3287
01:53:13,600 --> 01:53:16,160
lot of the time. We'd like to be able to

3288
01:53:16,160 --> 01:53:19,600
double up and use those if we could.

3289
01:53:19,600 --> 01:53:22,080
>> I I have a real life example of this if

3290
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:22,360
that

3291
01:53:22,360 --> 01:53:30,350
>> I'm sure Travis has a question.

3292
01:53:30,360 --> 01:53:32,400
» Uh, sorry. Can you guys hear me?

3293
01:53:32,400 --> 01:53:33,120
>> Yes.

3294
01:53:33,120 --> 01:53:35,360
>> Yeah, I was just echoing what Jeff was

3295
01:53:35,360 --> 01:53:37,960
saying. I guess can we require like a 10

3296
01:53:37,960 --> 01:53:40,520
or a 20 year lease on these? Is maybe

3297
01:53:40,520 --> 01:53:42,120
that's not practical, I don't know, but

3298
01:53:42,120 --> 01:53:44,240
I do have the concern that all of a

3299
01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:46,720
sudden there's a conflict between

3300
01:53:46,720 --> 01:53:48,960
whoever owns the lot and you know, the

3301
01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:50,480
building and all of a sudden the lease

3302
01:53:50,480 --> 01:53:52,440
gets canceled or somebody wants to

3303
01:53:52,440 --> 01:53:54,000
develop their property. I I don't know.

3304
01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:56,080
I can just see these leases getting

3305
01:53:56,080 --> 01:53:57,760
terminated and then all of a sudden

3306
01:53:57,760 --> 01:53:59,040
somebody built a building under the

3307
01:53:59,040 --> 01:54:00,160
assumption that they were going to be

3308
01:54:00,160 --> 01:54:01,600
able to use offsite parking and then

3309
01:54:01,600 --> 01:54:03,960
that offsite parking is gone and now we

3310
01:54:03,960 --> 01:54:05,520
have a problem on our hands. So, I would

3311
01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:07,760
like to mitigate that risk and address

3312
01:54:07,760 --> 01:54:09,880
that somehow in advance

3313
01:54:09,880 --> 01:54:12,000
um, as part of this this approval

3314
01:54:12,000 --> 01:54:13,680
process that we're

3315
01:54:13,680 --> 01:54:14,840
you know, what we're going to address

3316
01:54:14,840 --> 01:54:17,040
tonight. So, I don't know if we pick a

3317
01:54:17,040 --> 01:54:18,720
number of years, 10 years, 20 years,

3318
01:54:18,720 --> 01:54:20,120
something like that.

3319
01:54:20,120 --> 01:54:21,240
Um,

3320
01:54:21,240 --> 01:54:23,720
I prefer we figure out something

3321
01:54:23,720 --> 01:54:25,000
rather than just assume it's going to go

3322
01:54:25,000 --> 01:54:30,590
okay. Kind of plan for the worst.

3323
01:54:30,600 --> 01:54:31,400
» Yeah.

3324
01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:32,240
>> Good reason. [snorts]

3325
01:54:32,240 --> 01:54:36,914
>> Yeah, Brian, what do you think?

3326
01:54:36,924 --> 01:54:38,080
» [laughter]

3327
01:54:38,080 --> 01:54:40,440
>> Uh, I mean it's first time I've thought

3328
01:54:40,440 --> 01:54:42,480
about that question and so I guess the

3329
01:54:42,480 --> 01:54:45,360
What is it What's the objective? Cuz

3330
01:54:45,360 --> 01:54:46,840
are you trying to get the risk to zero?

3331
01:54:46,840 --> 01:54:48,720
Cuz a 10 20 year lease is not getting

3332
01:54:48,720 --> 01:54:50,800
the risk to zero. So, I don't know what

3333
01:54:50,800 --> 01:54:52,160
the objective is.

3334
01:54:52,160 --> 01:54:54,440
>> No, if they own it, it's zero.

3335
01:54:54,440 --> 01:54:55,720
>> The

3336
01:54:55,720 --> 01:54:57,040
you know, I mean the other thing that

3337
01:54:57,040 --> 01:54:59,080
occurs to me is I suppose you could say

3338
01:54:59,080 --> 01:55:00,400
that they must

3339
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:01,720
but I don't know how feasible this is.

3340
01:55:01,720 --> 01:55:03,200
The The thought that's popping in my

3341
01:55:03,200 --> 01:55:06,440
head is they must record a lease and

3342
01:55:06,440 --> 01:55:09,080
they must uh submit a written plan for

3343
01:55:09,080 --> 01:55:10,840
how they will replace it when the lease

3344
01:55:10,840 --> 01:55:12,800
expires or terminates.

3345
01:55:12,800 --> 01:55:14,000
But I don't know how feasible that

3346
01:55:14,000 --> 01:55:15,680
actually is. Cuz I don't know what the

3347
01:55:15,680 --> 01:55:16,920
plan would be.

3348
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:18,760
>> I I mean, for me it wouldn't be to get

3349
01:55:18,760 --> 01:55:20,440
it to zero, but to get it to manageable.

3350
01:55:20,440 --> 01:55:22,240
I think 1 year is not manageable. Like

3351
01:55:22,240 --> 01:55:24,240
if if you build a new park apartment

3352
01:55:24,240 --> 01:55:25,880
complex with the assumption you're going

3353
01:55:25,880 --> 01:55:27,720
to use an empty lot under 1 year of

3354
01:55:27,720 --> 01:55:29,640
grace lease agreement and then it's gone

3355
01:55:29,640 --> 01:55:30,760
in 1 year. You're like, that's not a

3356
01:55:30,760 --> 01:55:32,680
manageable risk. 20 years absolutely is

3357
01:55:32,680 --> 01:55:34,120
manageable because

3358
01:55:34,120 --> 01:55:36,040
problems change, societies change

3359
01:55:36,040 --> 01:55:38,680
drastically in generations.

3360
01:55:38,680 --> 01:55:40,440
>> Well, we can certainly add a time period

3361
01:55:40,440 --> 01:55:42,600
if that's sufficient.

3362
01:55:42,600 --> 01:55:45,600
>> Yeah, I I don't know that we can assume it

3363
01:55:45,600 --> 01:55:47,440
goes away in 20 years.

3364
01:55:47,440 --> 01:55:50,240
We can look back 20 years, same problem

3365
01:55:50,240 --> 01:55:51,400
uh previous to that.

3366
01:55:51,400 --> 01:55:52,160
>> Yeah, I agree.

3367
01:55:52,160 --> 01:55:54,760
>> And and so that's that's not a magical

3368
01:55:54,760 --> 01:55:56,400
we will have

3369
01:55:56,400 --> 01:55:57,840
uh flying cars by then and maybe we'll

3370
01:55:57,840 --> 01:55:59,520
have that at the top.

3371
01:55:59,520 --> 01:56:01,440
Um and if we have self-driving cars,

3372
01:56:01,440 --> 01:56:02,680
that makes a difference. So, all those

3373
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:04,240
things I think make sense. I think we

3374
01:56:04,240 --> 01:56:05,680
would need to

3375
01:56:05,680 --> 01:56:07,480
create this

3376
01:56:07,480 --> 01:56:10,080
to address Travis's issue of No, I think

3377
01:56:10,080 --> 01:56:12,000
we do need to think through

3378
01:56:12,000 --> 01:56:13,800
be- because we're we're taking the we're

3379
01:56:13,800 --> 01:56:16,000
taking the approach of focusing on how

3380
01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:17,880
do we help the developer? I like that

3381
01:56:17,880 --> 01:56:19,200
idea.

3382
01:56:19,200 --> 01:56:22,320
And the flip side of that same coin is what's the impact on the

3383
01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:24,200
neighborhoods?

3384
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:27,280
And I hear a lot more from neighbors

3385
01:56:27,280 --> 01:56:29,680
than I do from developers.

3386
01:56:29,680 --> 01:56:30,880
So, you guys are hearing a lot from

3387
01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:32,800
developers, I get that.

3388
01:56:32,800 --> 01:56:35,080
Um I'm hearing from neighbors who are

3389
01:56:35,080 --> 01:56:37,080
saying it denigrates when there isn't

3390
01:56:37,080 --> 01:56:38,920
sufficient parking, it denigrates

3391
01:56:38,920 --> 01:56:40,480
quality of the neighborhood. Now, this

3392
01:56:40,480 --> 01:56:42,160
is one of those glass half full, glass

3393
01:56:42,160 --> 01:56:43,400
half empty, do you want to look at heads

3394
01:56:43,400 --> 01:56:44,640
or tails?

3395
01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:45,480
So, I don't know that we're going to

3396
01:56:45,480 --> 01:56:46,920
wrestle that to the ground and decide

3397
01:56:46,920 --> 01:56:49,120
and come to a consensus.

3398
01:56:49,120 --> 01:56:51,280
But I I'm very concerned that someone

3399
01:56:51,280 --> 01:56:53,080
will say, "Yes, we got adequate parking

3400
01:56:53,080 --> 01:56:54,960
in this parking lot and it's 5 years,

3401
01:56:54,960 --> 01:56:56,720
pick a number." And then that goes away

3402
01:56:56,720 --> 01:56:59,920
and boom, who is it that then pays the price for

3403
01:56:59,920 --> 01:57:02,160
that? And it's that local neighborhood.

3404
01:57:02,160 --> 01:57:04,600
And so, I think we do need to have a

3405
01:57:04,600 --> 01:57:07,400
solution for that before that becomes

3406
01:57:07,400 --> 01:57:10,640
an option. I I I Ryan, I think we need

3407
01:57:10,640 --> 01:57:13,560
to we need to come up with something I

3408
01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:15,160
Of course, if it was owned, deed

3409
01:57:15,160 --> 01:57:17,600
restricted. Yeah, perfect. But, a lot of

3410
01:57:17,600 --> 01:57:20,640
this is I I like the idea of how do we

3411
01:57:20,640 --> 01:57:22,520
utilize existing parking structures,

3412
01:57:22,520 --> 01:57:24,360
parking lots, and BYU's got all these

3413
01:57:24,360 --> 01:57:26,840
parking lots. And is there some way to I

3414
01:57:26,840 --> 01:57:29,120
like all of that.

3415
01:57:29,120 --> 01:57:32,080
And all that could be temporary, and I

3416
01:57:32,080 --> 01:57:33,960
think we then are just pushing the

3417
01:57:33,960 --> 01:57:36,800
problem onto the neighborhoods, and I

3418
01:57:36,800 --> 01:57:40,310
wouldn't want to see that happen.

3419
01:57:40,320 --> 01:57:43,750
» Yeah.

3420
01:57:43,760 --> 01:57:44,880
» Okay, Councilwoman Lock.

3421
01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:46,440
>> Um is it okay if I change topics to

3422
01:57:46,440 --> 01:57:48,000
these questions?

3423
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:48,280
>> Sure.

3424
01:57:48,280 --> 01:57:50,240
>> I Yeah. So, you asked if what questions

3425
01:57:50,240 --> 01:57:51,880
would maybe we'd like have answered

3426
01:57:51,880 --> 01:57:53,760
either now or tonight.

3427
01:57:53,760 --> 01:57:55,040
One of the questions that I would be

3428
01:57:55,040 --> 01:57:58,440
really curious to know, it's similar to

3429
01:57:58,440 --> 01:58:00,280
uh Councilman Garrett's question, but a

3430
01:58:00,280 --> 01:58:03,080
little bit broader, is like or

3431
01:58:03,080 --> 01:58:05,160
for the area

3432
01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:06,040
in [clears throat] question, let's say

3433
01:58:06,040 --> 01:58:07,920
call it like the stop south of BYU

3434
01:58:07,920 --> 01:58:10,320
campus, do we know what the current

3435
01:58:10,320 --> 01:58:12,880
parking ratio is today? Because a lot of

3436
01:58:12,880 --> 01:58:14,920
the a lot of the

3437
01:58:14,920 --> 01:58:16,920
uh existing development are small homes

3438
01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:18,640
that are being occupied by students that

3439
01:58:18,640 --> 01:58:20,400
were not parked under any kind of

3440
01:58:20,400 --> 01:58:21,920
multi-family ratio. So, I'm just curious

3441
01:58:21,920 --> 01:58:23,440
if we know the exact actually the

3442
01:58:23,440 --> 01:58:25,521
existing ratio is.

3443
01:58:25,521 --> 01:58:25,560
>> [clears throat]

3444
01:58:25,560 --> 01:58:27,840
>> For Joaquin specifically, we do because

3445
01:58:27,840 --> 01:58:28,960
we did that through that neighborhood

3446
01:58:28,960 --> 01:58:29,960
plan.

3447
01:58:29,960 --> 01:58:31,000
Um that's not going to be true

3448
01:58:31,000 --> 01:58:33,120
everywhere, and things have changed over

3449
01:58:33,120 --> 01:58:34,440
the years since that Joaquin plan was

3450
01:58:34,440 --> 01:58:36,560
done. So, we won't know exact from

3451
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:39,240
parcel to parcel. Um new development new

3452
01:58:39,240 --> 01:58:40,960
development is easy. We can average We

3453
01:58:40,960 --> 01:58:43,040
can probably average it out to

3454
01:58:43,040 --> 01:58:44,520
do a number for it. Yeah.

3455
01:58:44,520 --> 01:58:45,640
>> Yeah, cuz like I guess the thing that

3456
01:58:45,640 --> 01:58:47,200
I'm curious about is I'm curious if you

3457
01:58:47,200 --> 01:58:49,000
take the whole area kind of immediately

3458
01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:51,720
south of campus, and you understood

3459
01:58:51,720 --> 01:58:55,160
parking ratio. And then and then a under

3460
01:58:55,160 --> 01:58:56,720
today we kind of have like mixed like

3461
01:58:56,720 --> 01:58:58,800
older older developments that were

3462
01:58:58,800 --> 01:59:00,320
parked under different ratios, newer

3463
01:59:00,320 --> 01:59:01,560
ones that are parked in the more recent

3464
01:59:01,560 --> 01:59:03,160
ones, and then houses that were not

3465
01:59:03,160 --> 01:59:04,800
parked at all for multi-family. Like

3466
01:59:04,800 --> 01:59:06,360
what is that average and does And then

3467
01:59:06,360 --> 01:59:08,200
if you assumed that entire area being

3468
01:59:08,200 --> 01:59:09,240
redeveloped, which is not going to

3469
01:59:09,240 --> 01:59:10,760
happen overnight, but I'm just saying if

3470
01:59:10,760 --> 01:59:12,400
you assumed it getting redeveloped under

3471
01:59:12,400 --> 01:59:14,480
this new ratio, would it actually be

3472
01:59:14,480 --> 01:59:15,880
more or less? That's the question I'm

3473
01:59:15,880 --> 01:59:16,640
getting at.

3474
01:59:16,640 --> 01:59:18,240
>> I can come back with those average

3475
01:59:18,240 --> 01:59:20,200
ratios to you.

3476
01:59:20,200 --> 01:59:21,920
>> And then the a couple other questions I

3477
01:59:21,920 --> 01:59:23,162
have is like

3478
01:59:23,162 --> 01:59:24,000
>> [clears throat]

3479
01:59:24,000 --> 01:59:25,160
>> So

3480
01:59:25,160 --> 01:59:26,640
um

3481
01:59:26,640 --> 01:59:28,600
do we know do we have we done any study

3482
01:59:28,600 --> 01:59:30,920
to suggest how

3483
01:59:30,920 --> 01:59:33,480
much this savings gets passed on to

3484
01:59:33,480 --> 01:59:34,760
renters?

3485
01:59:34,760 --> 01:59:36,720
So for example, uh

3486
01:59:36,720 --> 01:59:40,280
you take an average 100 unit uh with two

3487
01:59:40,280 --> 01:59:42,760
bedrooms each, that translates into some

3488
01:59:42,760 --> 01:59:44,600
direct savings cuz we can just do the

3489
01:59:44,600 --> 01:59:46,640
math based on the assumption per stall

3490
01:59:46,640 --> 01:59:49,000
cost, right? I'm curious like do we know

3491
01:59:49,000 --> 01:59:50,920
like for every dollar saved to in the

3492
01:59:50,920 --> 01:59:52,280
construction it gets passed on to be

3493
01:59:52,280 --> 01:59:54,040
like 5 cents per year in rent? Do we

3494
01:59:54,040 --> 01:59:55,720
have any ratio like that?

3495
01:59:55,720 --> 01:59:57,080
>> I think that's probably going to be

3496
01:59:57,080 --> 01:59:58,480
different from developer to developer,

3497
01:59:58,480 --> 01:59:59,600
but I think that's a great question for

3498
01:59:59,600 --> 02:00:02,240
those that come tonight um to have their

3499
02:00:02,240 --> 02:00:03,480
We can ask that. I think examples

3500
02:00:03,480 --> 02:00:04,880
address it and it it just might be

3501
02:00:04,880 --> 02:00:07,200
different between each one of them.

3502
02:00:07,200 --> 02:00:09,080
>> Great. And then sorry.

3503
02:00:09,080 --> 02:00:10,680
>> I was just curious so who is coming

3504
02:00:10,680 --> 02:00:11,920
tonight?

3505
02:00:11,920 --> 02:00:14,520
>> Um we've talked to Nite and Architecture

3506
02:00:14,520 --> 02:00:17,080
about this. We've talked to Cole West.

3507
02:00:17,080 --> 02:00:18,880
We've talked to

3508
02:00:18,880 --> 02:00:21,000
>> The owners of um

3509
02:00:21,000 --> 02:00:23,040
Campus Plaza.

3510
02:00:23,040 --> 02:00:23,720
And uh

3511
02:00:23,720 --> 02:00:24,560
>> Isn't that Cole West?

3512
02:00:24,560 --> 02:00:25,640
>> Cole West.

3513
02:00:25,640 --> 02:00:26,600
>> Isn't that Cole West?

3514
02:00:26,600 --> 02:00:28,680
>> That's Park Plaza. Campus Plaza is the

3515
02:00:28,680 --> 02:00:30,240
>> Yeah. Okay.

3516
02:00:30,240 --> 02:00:32,560
>> And then um the people that did 400

3517
02:00:32,560 --> 02:00:35,520
Element um

3518
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:36,800
>> Uh Billy Construction.

3519
02:00:36,800 --> 02:00:37,560
>> Billy Construction.

3520
02:00:37,560 --> 02:00:37,840
>> Yeah.

3521
02:00:37,840 --> 02:00:40,560
So we've asked them for some input

3522
02:00:40,560 --> 02:00:42,120
from a lot of these groups and and

3523
02:00:42,120 --> 02:00:43,200
hopefully some of them come tonight to

3524
02:00:43,200 --> 02:00:44,400
address some of this.

3525
02:00:44,400 --> 02:00:45,360
>> Yeah.

3526
02:00:45,360 --> 02:00:47,440
>> Now Mike Mike's you like experience in

3527
02:00:47,440 --> 02:00:49,120
economics and

3528
02:00:49,120 --> 02:00:50,480
I know when we were looking at the road

3529
02:00:50,480 --> 02:00:51,880
width thing,

3530
02:00:51,880 --> 02:00:53,360
you know, the roads, it saves the

3531
02:00:53,360 --> 02:00:55,080
develop a lot of money to do it narrower

3532
02:00:55,080 --> 02:00:56,200
road.

3533
02:00:56,200 --> 02:00:57,560
And so I asked one of the developers who

3534
02:00:57,560 --> 02:00:59,520
did it, "Hey, did you do your Did you

3535
02:00:59,520 --> 02:01:01,080
sell the houses a little cheaper?" Like

3536
02:01:01,080 --> 02:01:03,200
they abs- they said, "Absolutely not.

3537
02:01:03,200 --> 02:01:04,520
We're going to sell the max for whatever

3538
02:01:04,520 --> 02:01:06,160
we can sell the market will do."

3539
02:01:06,160 --> 02:01:07,880
And it'll be the same thing for the rent

3540
02:01:07,880 --> 02:01:11,000
or sale of a home without or with

3541
02:01:11,000 --> 02:01:13,080
parking. And the market may make it a

3542
02:01:13,080 --> 02:01:16,440
little different cuz it doesn't parking.

3543
02:01:16,440 --> 02:01:17,520
And it might not because they'll just

3544
02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:18,800
know they'll park on the street and they

3545
02:01:18,800 --> 02:01:19,920
want new

3546
02:01:19,920 --> 02:01:22,200
We knew We do want South of Campus

3547
02:01:22,200 --> 02:01:23,840
redeveloped. New development would be

3548
02:01:23,840 --> 02:01:27,000
awesome, clean, without black mold,

3549
02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:29,360
modern. It'd be lovely.

3550
02:01:29,360 --> 02:01:30,840
I'm excited that we did apply for that

3551
02:01:30,840 --> 02:01:32,960
opportunity zone for South of Campus and

3552
02:01:32,960 --> 02:01:34,680
I really, really hope that that

3553
02:01:34,680 --> 02:01:37,560
motivates some developers to build South

3554
02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:39,720
of Campus. Um I've talked to a few

3555
02:01:39,720 --> 02:01:41,400
developers and asked them, "Why won't

3556
02:01:41,400 --> 02:01:43,200
Why Why don't people redevelop South of

3557
02:01:43,200 --> 02:01:45,760
Campus?" And it was interesting to me.

3558
02:01:45,760 --> 02:01:47,440
Um a developer told me Two developers

3559
02:01:47,440 --> 02:01:48,920
told me that

3560
02:01:48,920 --> 02:01:51,880
our um rent is too cheap in in BYU. The

3561
02:01:51,880 --> 02:01:53,480
South of Campus rent is too cheap. It's

3562
02:01:53,480 --> 02:01:55,120
not worth redeveloping.

3563
02:01:55,120 --> 02:01:57,000
Because the rent is so cheap, you don't

3564
02:01:57,000 --> 02:01:59,120
get you know you know the payback takes

3565
02:01:59,120 --> 02:02:01,640
too long. They re- They build student

3566
02:02:01,640 --> 02:02:04,640
housing in Tennessee, Montana, Idaho,

3567
02:02:04,640 --> 02:02:06,400
Kentucky. Those are the ones I can

3568
02:02:06,400 --> 02:02:07,480
remember.

3569
02:02:07,480 --> 02:02:08,880
And they're like, "These places are just

3570
02:02:08,880 --> 02:02:10,120
way better to build. Their The rent's

3571
02:02:10,120 --> 02:02:11,680
way more expensive. Provo's too cheap."

3572
02:02:11,680 --> 02:02:13,000
And I thought that was so interesting

3573
02:02:13,000 --> 02:02:14,400
cuz I'd never heard that before and like

3574
02:02:14,400 --> 02:02:15,560
that was an interesting perspective I

3575
02:02:15,560 --> 02:02:16,800
hadn't heard.

3576
02:02:16,800 --> 02:02:18,640
>> I mean to say it's too cheap. Rent here

3577
02:02:18,640 --> 02:02:20,560
is like 400, 500 a month.

3578
02:02:20,560 --> 02:02:21,680
>> They're just saying they didn't give me

3579
02:02:21,680 --> 02:02:22,720
any numbers. They just said the rent's

3580
02:02:22,720 --> 02:02:23,800
too cheap in Provo. It's not worth

3581
02:02:23,800 --> 02:02:25,640
redoing. People are just making money on

3582
02:02:25,640 --> 02:02:28,000
it as it is. It's all paid for. It's

3583
02:02:28,000 --> 02:02:30,000
like It's not worth redoing.

3584
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:31,720
>> so why don't fix it?

3585
02:02:31,720 --> 02:02:33,280
>> Um

3586
02:02:33,280 --> 02:02:34,920
So it's it's just there's a lot going

3587
02:02:34,920 --> 02:02:36,680
on.

3588
02:02:36,680 --> 02:02:39,640
And I

3589
02:02:39,640 --> 02:02:42,880
I've never talked to anyone

3590
02:02:42,880 --> 02:02:44,680
that doesn't acknowledge that there is a

3591
02:02:44,680 --> 02:02:46,520
problem. Now, they may not care about

3592
02:02:46,520 --> 02:02:47,800
the problem.

3593
02:02:47,800 --> 02:02:53,880
And they may want to um

3594
02:02:53,880 --> 02:02:54,800
you know, that they think that problem's

3595
02:02:54,800 --> 02:02:56,240
okay cuz they don't want people to drive

3596
02:02:56,240 --> 02:02:57,920
and they think it's like they do think

3597
02:02:57,920 --> 02:03:00,520
it'll lower housing or so but all we get

3598
02:03:00,520 --> 02:03:01,880
is complaints about parking from

3599
02:03:01,880 --> 02:03:05,240
students, from families that live there,

3600
02:03:05,240 --> 02:03:08,080
from people that

3601
02:03:08,080 --> 02:03:11,920
live in neighboring areas. It's tricky.

3602
02:03:11,920 --> 02:03:19,280
And our And we can make choices to push things in a

3603
02:03:19,280 --> 02:03:21,040
certain direction cuz we want to get rid

3604
02:03:21,040 --> 02:03:23,760
of cars or we want to just increase

3605
02:03:23,760 --> 02:03:26,120
housing as much as we can possible. Like

3606
02:03:26,120 --> 02:03:27,720
we can make those choices.

3607
02:03:27,720 --> 02:03:29,920
But they all have consequences and I

3608
02:03:29,920 --> 02:03:31,600
don't want to live in a city that only

3609
02:03:31,600 --> 02:03:32,760
cares about getting as much density as

3610
02:03:32,760 --> 02:03:34,800
possible or that wants to just get rid

3611
02:03:34,800 --> 02:03:36,080
of cars that are

3612
02:03:36,080 --> 02:03:38,120
no matter the cost. That's not where I

3613
02:03:38,120 --> 02:03:40,040
want to live. I don't think our citizens

3614
02:03:40,040 --> 02:03:42,640
want to live like that.

3615
02:03:42,640 --> 02:03:45,750
But

3616
02:03:45,760 --> 02:03:46,720
Councilwoman Lock.

3617
02:03:46,720 --> 02:03:48,200
>> Um

3618
02:03:48,200 --> 02:03:50,280
Is it okay if I ask you more questions?

3619
02:03:50,280 --> 02:03:51,480
So, one of the thing is I In the

3620
02:03:51,480 --> 02:03:53,200
planning commission, they they asked for

3621
02:03:53,200 --> 02:03:55,920
right if I recall correctly a map of the

3622
02:03:55,920 --> 02:03:58,080
actual parcels that would be

3623
02:03:58,080 --> 02:03:59,680
affected by this. Have we created that

3624
02:03:59,680 --> 02:04:00,080
map?

3625
02:04:00,080 --> 02:04:01,600
>> No, they they recommended that if the

3626
02:04:01,600 --> 02:04:03,120
council does move forward with any of

3627
02:04:03,120 --> 02:04:05,560
this that we should include maps or

3628
02:04:05,560 --> 02:04:07,560
figures within the code.

3629
02:04:07,560 --> 02:04:07,960
>> Okay.

3630
02:04:07,960 --> 02:04:08,480
>> To to include

3631
02:04:08,480 --> 02:04:09,960
>> me that for me having that map would

3632
02:04:09,960 --> 02:04:11,960
help me understand sort of like what

3633
02:04:11,960 --> 02:04:13,680
actually would be influenced by this

3634
02:04:13,680 --> 02:04:15,440
because I think it's hard

3635
02:04:15,440 --> 02:04:16,840
to conceptualize cuz you have the

3636
02:04:16,840 --> 02:04:19,160
half-mile radius and then

3637
02:04:19,160 --> 02:04:20,160
>> quarter mile

3638
02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:22,480
>> Yeah, and then and then if not on-street

3639
02:04:22,480 --> 02:04:23,720
parking. And so anyway, there's a bunch

3640
02:04:23,720 --> 02:04:25,000
of criteria and so it'd be nice just to

3641
02:04:25,000 --> 02:04:26,800
see those plats or like this or the

3642
02:04:26,800 --> 02:04:31,110
plats that actually meet the criteria.

3643
02:04:31,120 --> 02:04:31,960
» Councilwoman Lock.

3644
02:04:31,960 --> 02:04:33,160
>> Keith Christensen.

3645
02:04:33,160 --> 02:04:34,120
>> Yeah, Christensen.

3646
02:04:34,120 --> 02:04:35,400
>> The uh

3647
02:04:35,400 --> 02:04:37,760
the challenge I have with this

3648
02:04:37,760 --> 02:04:38,560
uh

3649
02:04:38,560 --> 02:04:40,360
proposed ordinance

3650
02:04:40,360 --> 02:04:42,600
is the one-size-fits-all.

3651
02:04:42,600 --> 02:04:46,000
Um I I think we do need to think though

3652
02:04:46,000 --> 02:04:47,560
about

3653
02:04:47,560 --> 02:04:50,080
uh projects and areas

3654
02:04:50,080 --> 02:04:53,880
um anchoring this to the transit areas

3655
02:04:53,880 --> 02:04:55,800
throughout the city. Again, I I think

3656
02:04:55,800 --> 02:04:57,640
it's one-size-fits-all.

3657
02:04:57,640 --> 02:05:00,320
So, I I'm not supportive of it at all.

3658
02:05:00,320 --> 02:05:03,640
Um I and I I applaud the intent and I

3659
02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:05,040
think there's probably different ways to

3660
02:05:05,040 --> 02:05:07,960
get to the same the right outcome.

3661
02:05:07,960 --> 02:05:11,000
I think that this one just over-corrects

3662
02:05:11,000 --> 02:05:13,480
to the developers. In fact, that's what

3663
02:05:13,480 --> 02:05:15,480
we hear about is this is what developers

3664
02:05:15,480 --> 02:05:17,120
need.

3665
02:05:17,120 --> 02:05:18,800
And I think more important than the

3666
02:05:18,800 --> 02:05:20,760
developers is the neighbors. So, that's

3667
02:05:20,760 --> 02:05:22,680
my that's my bias. It's the people

3668
02:05:22,680 --> 02:05:24,640
living here. It's people like me who own

3669
02:05:24,640 --> 02:05:25,920
a home

3670
02:05:25,920 --> 02:05:28,360
and want and want places that, you know,

3671
02:05:28,360 --> 02:05:30,680
aren't choked with traffic and and and

3672
02:05:30,680 --> 02:05:32,680
have enough parking. So,

3673
02:05:32,680 --> 02:05:34,520
um I acknowledge I'm taking a very

3674
02:05:34,520 --> 02:05:37,720
specific approach uh to this.

3675
02:05:37,720 --> 02:05:39,520
Um and you could take another approach

3676
02:05:39,520 --> 02:05:40,960
and say, "No, we need more housing no

3677
02:05:40,960 --> 02:05:42,560
matter what."

3678
02:05:42,560 --> 02:05:44,120
I too

3679
02:05:44,120 --> 02:05:45,360
um

3680
02:05:45,360 --> 02:05:48,160
do not want to see Provo

3681
02:05:48,160 --> 02:05:50,120
uh just let's let's if we've got empty

3682
02:05:50,120 --> 02:05:51,960
space, let's fill it up.

3683
02:05:51,960 --> 02:05:54,320
Um you can move to Manhattan for that.

3684
02:05:54,320 --> 02:05:55,920
It's like or you can move to downtown

3685
02:05:55,920 --> 02:05:57,120
Salt Lake City. You can move to or you

3686
02:05:57,120 --> 02:05:59,440
can move to downtown Provo.

3687
02:05:59,440 --> 02:06:00,680
Um

3688
02:06:00,680 --> 02:06:02,960
we we need to preserve these places and

3689
02:06:02,960 --> 02:06:05,520
even around these transit places

3690
02:06:05,520 --> 02:06:06,800
um

3691
02:06:06,800 --> 02:06:08,160
using transit does not mean you don't

3692
02:06:08,160 --> 02:06:09,760
have a car.

3693
02:06:09,760 --> 02:06:11,120
Because our transit is not that good.

3694
02:06:11,120 --> 02:06:13,080
Now, you could say, "Well, we just get

3695
02:06:13,080 --> 02:06:15,200
rid of the cars. You'll have to use

3696
02:06:15,200 --> 02:06:17,720
transit." That is a strategy. It's not

3697
02:06:17,720 --> 02:06:20,080
one I'm willing to support, but there's

3698
02:06:20,080 --> 02:06:22,320
a there's that's an uh

3699
02:06:22,320 --> 02:06:24,680
a viable argument. I'm just not in that

3700
02:06:24,680 --> 02:06:25,840
place.

3701
02:06:25,840 --> 02:06:28,160
I'm in the place for

3702
02:06:28,160 --> 02:06:29,680
um let's make sure that we preserve the

3703
02:06:29,680 --> 02:06:31,480
character of neighborhoods. Parking is a

3704
02:06:31,480 --> 02:06:33,880
big part of that quality of life. And

3705
02:06:33,880 --> 02:06:36,120
so, to me this

3706
02:06:36,120 --> 02:06:39,040
uh is just one-size-fits-all. Am I open

3707
02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:41,520
to a discussion about individual uh

3708
02:06:41,520 --> 02:06:43,480
projects? Let's take the one on 90th.

3709
02:06:43,480 --> 02:06:45,680
And should Do we need to do something?

3710
02:06:45,680 --> 02:06:48,280
Absolutely. Uh because I want to see

3711
02:06:48,280 --> 02:06:49,840
that developed.

3712
02:06:49,840 --> 02:06:52,960
Um this to me goes it it's just it's the

3713
02:06:52,960 --> 02:06:56,990
wrong vehicle to do that.

3714
02:06:57,000 --> 02:07:08,550
» Travis has a comment. Go ahead, Travis.

3715
02:07:08,560 --> 02:07:10,560
» Hey. Can you hear me?

3716
02:07:10,560 --> 02:07:11,520
>> Yep.

3717
02:07:11,520 --> 02:07:13,160
>> All right. Sorry, guys.

3718
02:07:13,160 --> 02:07:14,800
Um yeah, I just wanted to share my

3719
02:07:14,800 --> 02:07:17,160
thoughts generally since

3720
02:07:17,160 --> 02:07:18,840
you know, there's no surprises tonight

3721
02:07:18,840 --> 02:07:21,000
kind of where I'm at. Um

3722
02:07:21,000 --> 02:07:23,360
so, I'm supportive of trying to figure

3723
02:07:23,360 --> 02:07:25,320
out something

3724
02:07:25,320 --> 02:07:27,480
for Park Plaza.

3725
02:07:27,480 --> 02:07:30,880
Um I'm also supportive of using the

3726
02:07:30,880 --> 02:07:32,800
off-site parking. Um I would like a

3727
02:07:32,800 --> 02:07:36,560
long-term lease requirement. Um but I

3728
02:07:36,560 --> 02:07:39,240
think with the rest I prefer to be

3729
02:07:39,240 --> 02:07:42,120
more surgical about things because some

3730
02:07:42,120 --> 02:07:44,200
like there might be a development that

3731
02:07:44,200 --> 02:07:47,000
might make sense at one spot per bedroom

3732
02:07:47,000 --> 02:07:48,520
and another might make sense at half a

3733
02:07:48,520 --> 02:07:51,040
spot per bedroom. Um and so, I'm just

3734
02:07:51,040 --> 02:07:52,760
uncomfortable with just kind of painting

3735
02:07:52,760 --> 02:07:55,720
broad strokes and saying like, "Okay,

3736
02:07:55,720 --> 02:07:58,000
anywhere in these areas it can be you

3737
02:07:58,000 --> 02:07:59,760
know, it's going to be this amount." I

3738
02:07:59,760 --> 02:08:01,360
just feel like we should just look you

3739
02:08:01,360 --> 02:08:02,640
know, if there's four developments,

3740
02:08:02,640 --> 02:08:04,520
let's look at those individually and

3741
02:08:04,520 --> 02:08:06,080
make a recommendation based on the

3742
02:08:06,080 --> 02:08:08,800
specific need of that development. So,

3743
02:08:08,800 --> 02:08:11,680
that would be my preference. Um but I

3744
02:08:11,680 --> 02:08:14,120
also wanted to say that I appreciate the

3745
02:08:14,120 --> 02:08:16,200
time and effort that development

3746
02:08:16,200 --> 02:08:18,160
services have put into coming up with a

3747
02:08:18,160 --> 02:08:19,360
plan.

3748
02:08:19,360 --> 02:08:21,520
Um I think I think there's a lot of good

3749
02:08:21,520 --> 02:08:22,600
points to it. So, I definitely

3750
02:08:22,600 --> 02:08:26,120
appreciate that. Would just like to um

3751
02:08:26,120 --> 02:08:27,560
yeah, be a little more surgical in how

3752
02:08:27,560 --> 02:08:30,240
we approach it.

3753
02:08:30,240 --> 02:08:32,120
>> Councilor Councilor Whitlock.

3754
02:08:32,120 --> 02:08:34,920
>> Councilor Bogden.

3755
02:08:34,920 --> 02:08:36,640
So,

3756
02:08:36,640 --> 02:08:37,360
Bill,

3757
02:08:37,360 --> 02:08:37,880
>> Yes.

3758
02:08:37,880 --> 02:08:39,760
>> Startup,

3759
02:08:39,760 --> 02:08:42,240
that was one that we expected to have

3760
02:08:42,240 --> 02:08:45,040
transit and it ended up filling up with

3761
02:08:45,040 --> 02:08:48,360
BYU kids that had more cars than we

3762
02:08:48,360 --> 02:08:50,040
allotted for.

3763
02:08:50,040 --> 02:08:51,720
Right?

3764
02:08:51,720 --> 02:08:52,640
>> Yes.

3765
02:08:52,640 --> 02:08:56,200
>> Okay, so so that is my concern is is

3766
02:08:56,200 --> 02:09:00,200
it's not just college kids that are

3767
02:09:00,200 --> 02:09:02,360
bringing cars closer to BYU. We're also

3768
02:09:02,360 --> 02:09:04,480
looking at these transit corridors.

3769
02:09:04,480 --> 02:09:06,400
And when we have experimented with that

3770
02:09:06,400 --> 02:09:09,360
in the past, we've ended up really burnt

3771
02:09:09,360 --> 02:09:12,560
because I remember complaints from the

3772
02:09:12,560 --> 02:09:14,600
surrounding neighborhoods where the

3773
02:09:14,600 --> 02:09:16,240
parking was so bad because they filled

3774
02:09:16,240 --> 02:09:18,320
up with married college, so it was two

3775
02:09:18,320 --> 02:09:22,000
cars per unit, not a half of a

3776
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:24,240
parking stall per unit, and people

3777
02:09:24,240 --> 02:09:25,480
couldn't get out to get to medical

3778
02:09:25,480 --> 02:09:27,000
appointments because

3779
02:09:27,000 --> 02:09:29,200
kids were blocking driveways. And a lot

3780
02:09:29,200 --> 02:09:30,880
of times when we get this overcrowding

3781
02:09:30,880 --> 02:09:32,680
of parking,

3782
02:09:32,680 --> 02:09:34,400
the kids don't care. They just park

3783
02:09:34,400 --> 02:09:35,680
where they can park. I mean, we've

3784
02:09:35,680 --> 02:09:37,480
gotten all those emails from students

3785
02:09:37,480 --> 02:09:40,160
and and others that are upset because

3786
02:09:40,160 --> 02:09:41,520
they have to park in a crosswalk and

3787
02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:42,520
they don't understand why they're

3788
02:09:42,520 --> 02:09:44,760
getting a ticket or,

3789
02:09:44,760 --> 02:09:46,400
you know, because there's no parking and

3790
02:09:46,400 --> 02:09:47,720
please help us.

3791
02:09:47,720 --> 02:09:49,720
So, I I

3792
02:09:49,720 --> 02:09:51,600
to be surgical,

3793
02:09:51,600 --> 02:09:53,440
I can understand that and I can

3794
02:09:53,440 --> 02:09:55,160
appreciate that, but I also think we

3795
02:09:55,160 --> 02:09:56,320
need to look at the realities of our

3796
02:09:56,320 --> 02:09:57,840
situation.

3797
02:09:57,840 --> 02:09:59,360
And I don't think just because it's in a

3798
02:09:59,360 --> 02:10:01,120
transit corridor,

3799
02:10:01,120 --> 02:10:04,440
that's a good idea to go ahead and

3800
02:10:04,440 --> 02:10:09,110
not have the parking.

3801
02:10:09,120 --> 02:10:10,800
» Councilor Whitlock.

3802
02:10:10,800 --> 02:10:13,440
>> Um, so I

3803
02:10:13,440 --> 02:10:16,600
would uh concur very strongly with what

3804
02:10:16,600 --> 02:10:17,320
uh

3805
02:10:17,320 --> 02:10:19,920
Councilor Holben said about um and all

3806
02:10:19,920 --> 02:10:22,320
about Park Plaza. That's it's a very

3807
02:10:22,320 --> 02:10:24,680
blighted property. I went there on

3808
02:10:24,680 --> 02:10:27,720
Saturday just to go check it out and I

3809
02:10:27,720 --> 02:10:29,320
walked around and

3810
02:10:29,320 --> 02:10:30,920
I mean, if there is a place where that

3811
02:10:30,920 --> 02:10:32,160
could potentially this theory could

3812
02:10:32,160 --> 02:10:33,320
potentially work, I think it'd be there

3813
02:10:33,320 --> 02:10:34,600
because it's right across the street

3814
02:10:34,600 --> 02:10:35,920
from BYU. It's right across the street

3815
02:10:35,920 --> 02:10:37,680
from the Creamery. There is no really

3816
02:10:37,680 --> 02:10:40,160
adjacent resident parking that it would

3817
02:10:40,160 --> 02:10:41,280
spill out into because there's no

3818
02:10:41,280 --> 02:10:43,680
parking on 9th. There's no immediate

3819
02:10:43,680 --> 02:10:45,360
street within a block next to a

3820
02:10:45,360 --> 02:10:47,280
neighborhood. Um

3821
02:10:47,280 --> 02:10:48,520
and if the developers are telling us

3822
02:10:48,520 --> 02:10:50,200
like that's the like they can't get this

3823
02:10:50,200 --> 02:10:51,440
project done, but they're willing to do

3824
02:10:51,440 --> 02:10:52,720
it with that. Like to me, I'd much

3825
02:10:52,720 --> 02:10:54,960
rather see a nice student housing go

3826
02:10:54,960 --> 02:10:57,280
there than it continue to be a blighted

3827
02:10:57,280 --> 02:10:59,040
place with, you know, all sorts of

3828
02:10:59,040 --> 02:11:00,640
safety hazards. Also, the gate was open.

3829
02:11:00,640 --> 02:11:02,080
So, I know there's the place is a mess

3830
02:11:02,080 --> 02:11:03,400
and it's something I constantly was

3831
02:11:03,400 --> 02:11:04,720
asked about during the campaign about

3832
02:11:04,720 --> 02:11:07,120
like we can we see this redeveloped. Um

3833
02:11:07,120 --> 02:11:09,240
I do agree with you that potentially the

3834
02:11:09,240 --> 02:11:10,800
impact here is

3835
02:11:10,800 --> 02:11:13,200
too broad and we might want to learn.

3836
02:11:13,200 --> 02:11:14,640
One one thing I'll say though because a

3837
02:11:14,640 --> 02:11:16,600
lot of my area kind of is really close

3838
02:11:16,600 --> 02:11:19,100
to BYU. I and again, I'd like to

3839
02:11:19,100 --> 02:11:20,000
[clears throat] see the numbers if we

3840
02:11:20,000 --> 02:11:21,880
could actually do an analysis, but my my

3841
02:11:21,880 --> 02:11:24,080
kind of understanding is

3842
02:11:24,080 --> 02:11:24,920
uh

3843
02:11:24,920 --> 02:11:27,680
we're actually under-parked in the area

3844
02:11:27,680 --> 02:11:29,600
around BYU as it stands and it kind of

3845
02:11:29,600 --> 02:11:31,360
work like this is that like

3846
02:11:31,360 --> 02:11:34,040
student student population has gone up a

3847
02:11:34,040 --> 02:11:35,800
lot more than we've increased the supply

3848
02:11:35,800 --> 02:11:38,160
of student housing near BYU. Because

3849
02:11:38,160 --> 02:11:40,800
there's not enough supply near BYU,

3850
02:11:40,800 --> 02:11:42,920
students then go live in neighborhoods

3851
02:11:42,920 --> 02:11:45,560
near BYU as much as possible. Those

3852
02:11:45,560 --> 02:11:46,640
neighborhoods are parked as

3853
02:11:46,640 --> 02:11:49,280
single-family residential and not as

3854
02:11:49,280 --> 02:11:51,520
multi-family. And so, they you know, you

3855
02:11:51,520 --> 02:11:54,000
put four students in there and there's

3856
02:11:54,000 --> 02:11:56,280
three to four cars. And so, I think

3857
02:11:56,280 --> 02:11:58,280
we're actually in the area around BYU

3858
02:11:58,280 --> 02:11:59,600
dramatically under-parked and what I'd

3859
02:11:59,600 --> 02:12:01,160
like to understand is if we actually had

3860
02:12:01,160 --> 02:12:03,120
a redevelopment even at a lower parking

3861
02:12:03,120 --> 02:12:04,800
rate closer to BYU, would we actually

3862
02:12:04,800 --> 02:12:07,080
have more student parking for students

3863
02:12:07,080 --> 02:12:08,400
next to campus? Does that make sense,

3864
02:12:08,400 --> 02:12:09,680
that argument?

3865
02:12:09,680 --> 02:12:10,360
So, that's what I would like to

3866
02:12:10,360 --> 02:12:12,360
understand. And if we could that if that

3867
02:12:12,360 --> 02:12:13,880
is true, then we could look at just

3868
02:12:13,880 --> 02:12:15,520
scoping this down to like just a few

3869
02:12:15,520 --> 02:12:17,520
blocks south of BYU.

3870
02:12:17,520 --> 02:12:18,400
Um

3871
02:12:18,400 --> 02:12:19,640
and kind of take some of that pressure

3872
02:12:19,640 --> 02:12:21,080
cuz we all hear it's a constant

3873
02:12:21,080 --> 02:12:23,920
complaint from neighbors that uh

3874
02:12:23,920 --> 02:12:25,080
zoning enforcement and zoning

3875
02:12:25,080 --> 02:12:27,240
enforcement primarily is over parking,

3876
02:12:27,240 --> 02:12:29,600
which is primarily student housing.

3877
02:12:29,600 --> 02:12:31,240
So, that's my that's like my demand

3878
02:12:31,240 --> 02:12:31,560
about it.

3879
02:12:31,560 --> 02:12:34,320
>> Oh, sweet kings. Uh hello Jason. So,

3880
02:12:34,320 --> 02:12:38,320
there are places in Provo where it's not just

3881
02:12:38,320 --> 02:12:39,680
>> No, and I'm not saying it is just near.

3882
02:12:39,680 --> 02:12:41,720
I'm just saying they because there is

3883
02:12:41,720 --> 02:12:43,640
not housing near, they then students

3884
02:12:43,640 --> 02:12:45,480
then live as close as they can find a

3885
02:12:45,480 --> 02:12:51,350
place reasonable that they can afford.

3886
02:12:51,360 --> 02:12:55,120
» I I agree that we need to um

3887
02:12:55,120 --> 02:12:57,480
we need to look at things individually.

3888
02:12:57,480 --> 02:13:00,920
That that works for me. Um I I remember

3889
02:13:00,920 --> 02:13:02,960
it was over a year ago

3890
02:13:02,960 --> 02:13:05,080
that I talked to Bill about this, but

3891
02:13:05,080 --> 02:13:07,200
right now parking reductions go through

3892
02:13:07,200 --> 02:13:09,120
the planning commission. And I do think

3893
02:13:09,120 --> 02:13:10,320
they should come through the council

3894
02:13:10,320 --> 02:13:11,960
surgically.

3895
02:13:11,960 --> 02:13:14,800
Like Park Plaza or other ones that so

3896
02:13:14,800 --> 02:13:16,280
that we do know the bigger picture of

3897
02:13:16,280 --> 02:13:19,520
what's going on and um

3898
02:13:19,520 --> 02:13:21,200
so because it is such an issue. So, do

3899
02:13:21,200 --> 02:13:22,760
we want to accommodate where we can, but

3900
02:13:22,760 --> 02:13:23,960
we have to acknowledge it's a huge

3901
02:13:23,960 --> 02:13:25,320
issue.

3902
02:13:25,320 --> 02:13:27,920
And it makes me think too about like our

3903
02:13:27,920 --> 02:13:29,280
land when you upzone land, it just

3904
02:13:29,280 --> 02:13:30,960
becomes more expensive. And these

3905
02:13:30,960 --> 02:13:32,160
developers are saying things don't

3906
02:13:32,160 --> 02:13:33,200
pencil.

3907
02:13:33,200 --> 02:13:34,440
But then that's also the reality that

3908
02:13:34,440 --> 02:13:38,070
they're paying too much for the land.

3909
02:13:38,080 --> 02:13:40,520
They're paying for a zone it isn't or

3910
02:13:40,520 --> 02:13:42,120
they're paying for

3911
02:13:42,120 --> 02:13:43,240
what can't be done on it. Like if it

3912
02:13:43,240 --> 02:13:44,000
doesn't pencil, they shouldn't have

3913
02:13:44,000 --> 02:13:46,080
bought the land at that price.

3914
02:13:46,080 --> 02:13:48,200
Like the code is in place. They know

3915
02:13:48,200 --> 02:13:50,800
what the code is when they buy the land.

3916
02:13:50,800 --> 02:13:53,960
So, we somebody sent a message that

3917
02:13:53,960 --> 02:13:56,360
people can't ask more for what their

3918
02:13:56,360 --> 02:13:57,640
land that it's worth and for developers

3919
02:13:57,640 --> 02:13:59,040
need to be smarter about what they're

3920
02:13:59,040 --> 02:14:00,480
spending on it.

3921
02:14:00,480 --> 02:14:02,080
Cuz I don't think it's our

3922
02:14:02,080 --> 02:14:04,360
responsibility

3923
02:14:04,360 --> 02:14:07,560
to fix their poor financial decision,

3924
02:14:07,560 --> 02:14:10,080
too. Like there's a there's a situation

3925
02:14:10,080 --> 02:14:11,440
there that is not the citizens'

3926
02:14:11,440 --> 02:14:13,080
responsibility to take the burden of

3927
02:14:13,080 --> 02:14:15,040
their poor financial decision on to

3928
02:14:15,040 --> 02:14:16,320
them.

3929
02:14:16,320 --> 02:14:18,960
>> And at the same time, Patrice, you could

3930
02:14:18,960 --> 02:14:21,440
imagine developers saying

3931
02:14:21,440 --> 02:14:23,200
again, if we strive to have got more

3932
02:14:23,200 --> 02:14:24,680
surgical,

3933
02:14:24,680 --> 02:14:26,040
here's what I'd be willing to do.

3934
02:14:26,040 --> 02:14:26,560
>> Mhm.

3935
02:14:26,560 --> 02:14:28,440
>> And the

3936
02:14:28,440 --> 02:14:31,880
giving them greater distance to have an

3937
02:14:31,880 --> 02:14:35,080
parking. So, 200 ft seems pretty tight.

3938
02:14:35,080 --> 02:14:37,280
Uh if it was two blocks away, if it I

3939
02:14:37,280 --> 02:14:39,080
think we could be creative in terms of

3940
02:14:39,080 --> 02:14:42,240
how we help. So, I I don't think it's not a black You're not saying a

3941
02:14:42,240 --> 02:14:43,040
black and white.

3942
02:14:43,040 --> 02:14:43,720
>> Right.

3943
02:14:43,720 --> 02:14:45,480
>> But I think that speaks to if we had a

3944
02:14:45,480 --> 02:14:47,720
more surgical approach,

3945
02:14:47,720 --> 02:14:50,200
uh I don't feel like this is a surgical

3946
02:14:50,200 --> 02:14:51,640
at all.

3947
02:14:51,640 --> 02:14:55,000
That's my sense. I I I appreciate the

3948
02:14:55,000 --> 02:14:57,280
intent. And I don't think that this is

3949
02:14:57,280 --> 02:15:00,960
the answer, and we must find an answer.

3950
02:15:00,960 --> 02:15:02,960
>> Is that something that So, we tried to

3951
02:15:02,960 --> 02:15:04,200
if you look in

3952
02:15:04,200 --> 02:15:04,960
uh

3953
02:15:04,960 --> 02:15:08,280
370504, we tried to

3954
02:15:08,280 --> 02:15:09,720
put some criteria in there.

3955
02:15:09,720 --> 02:15:11,080
>> Where they can park elsewhere?

3956
02:15:11,080 --> 02:15:12,520
>> Um yeah, there's yeah, there's you know,

3957
02:15:12,520 --> 02:15:13,960
no on-street parking, no single-family

3958
02:15:13,960 --> 02:15:16,040
residential zones adjacent to you.

3959
02:15:16,040 --> 02:15:16,960
The the rent

3960
02:15:16,960 --> 02:15:19,000
>> Oh, you're saying the 50% reduction

3961
02:15:19,000 --> 02:15:19,440
stuff.

3962
02:15:19,440 --> 02:15:20,760
>> Yeah, so

3963
02:15:20,760 --> 02:15:22,520
is is the idea something like that where

3964
02:15:22,520 --> 02:15:24,840
we can have if we have concerns and

3965
02:15:24,840 --> 02:15:26,000
worries

3966
02:15:26,000 --> 02:15:27,840
that we can address those with specific

3967
02:15:27,840 --> 02:15:30,320
criteria to make this work? Are is that

3968
02:15:30,320 --> 02:15:31,880
not going far enough in your guys'

3969
02:15:31,880 --> 02:15:34,080
minds? I'm just trying to get a good

3970
02:15:34,080 --> 02:15:34,920
feel for it.

3971
02:15:34,920 --> 02:15:36,800
>> In my opinion, needs to be looked at

3972
02:15:36,800 --> 02:15:37,600
individually.

3973
02:15:37,600 --> 02:15:39,360
>> Like you're saying the property by by

3974
02:15:39,360 --> 02:15:40,000
either area

3975
02:15:40,000 --> 02:15:43,360
>> it up by by park plaza individually.

3976
02:15:43,360 --> 02:15:44,360
>> Do you know what I'm saying?

3977
02:15:44,360 --> 02:15:45,280
Individually.

3978
02:15:45,280 --> 02:15:49,030
>> Yeah.

3979
02:15:49,040 --> 02:15:52,440
» And I I would share this concern. Again,

3980
02:15:52,440 --> 02:15:54,720
this is such And you might say, "Well,

3981
02:15:54,720 --> 02:15:56,200
who in District 1 is worried about

3982
02:15:56,200 --> 02:15:57,600
parking?"

3983
02:15:57,600 --> 02:15:59,240
I I don't hear from District 1. I hear

3984
02:15:59,240 --> 02:16:01,600
from everyone in the city.

3985
02:16:01,600 --> 02:16:03,880
You know, I So, I'm hearing from the

3986
02:16:03,880 --> 02:16:06,440
people say Canyon are all best friends

3987
02:16:06,440 --> 02:16:08,760
because I heard from them so much. So,

3988
02:16:08,760 --> 02:16:10,960
I'm I'm hearing from everyone.

3989
02:16:10,960 --> 02:16:12,440
Um

3990
02:16:12,440 --> 02:16:16,040
my and I this is such a key issue. I

3991
02:16:16,040 --> 02:16:18,560
don't I wouldn't support the idea of

3992
02:16:18,560 --> 02:16:20,720
this being an administrative issue. I

3993
02:16:20,720 --> 02:16:22,720
think this council should decide this,

3994
02:16:22,720 --> 02:16:24,360
and we should come up with solutions for

3995
02:16:24,360 --> 02:16:27,160
this. Um because

3996
02:16:27,160 --> 02:16:28,160
uh

3997
02:16:28,160 --> 02:16:29,680
I'm that's what I'm accountable for is

3998
02:16:29,680 --> 02:16:31,280
everyone in the city.

3999
02:16:31,280 --> 02:16:33,760
And this is this is one of the top, you

4000
02:16:33,760 --> 02:16:37,870
know, three.

4001
02:16:37,880 --> 02:16:40,599
» Councilor I mean, sorry. Councilor Wood.

4002
02:16:40,599 --> 02:16:41,639
I would like to acknowledge that

4003
02:16:41,639 --> 02:16:42,679
Councilor Wood has joined us.

4004
02:16:42,679 --> 02:16:45,400
>> Yes, thank you. I'm sorry that I was

4005
02:16:45,400 --> 02:16:48,639
detained. Um happy to be here now.

4006
02:16:48,639 --> 02:16:52,040
Um I also apologize for entering this

4007
02:16:52,040 --> 02:16:54,559
conversation partway through.

4008
02:16:54,559 --> 02:16:57,000
Did you guys have a discussion about the

4009
02:16:57,000 --> 02:16:59,280
1/8 mile boundary of the main BYU

4010
02:16:59,280 --> 02:17:01,880
campus? Like how far into the

4011
02:17:01,880 --> 02:17:04,400
neighborhoods that goes? Cuz 1/8 of a

4012
02:17:04,400 --> 02:17:07,120
mile is what, like maybe a block?

4013
02:17:07,120 --> 02:17:09,360
Um I'm just trying to determine because

4014
02:17:09,360 --> 02:17:11,920
it seems like this is already very, very

4015
02:17:11,920 --> 02:17:14,920
limited in the geographic area that

4016
02:17:14,920 --> 02:17:18,639
would be affected based on the way this

4017
02:17:18,639 --> 02:17:23,750
proximity to BYU portion is written.

4018
02:17:23,760 --> 02:17:24,240
Yeah.

4019
02:17:24,240 --> 02:17:25,440
>> We're pulling up a map.

4020
02:17:25,440 --> 02:17:29,760
>> Cuz I think that that might be a helpful

4021
02:17:29,760 --> 02:17:33,719
thing to recognize that this is already

4022
02:17:33,719 --> 02:17:37,400
very, very constrained and that

4023
02:17:37,400 --> 02:17:40,519
we are not looking at

4024
02:17:40,519 --> 02:17:43,360
anything near Slate Canyon with this.

4025
02:17:43,360 --> 02:17:45,679
Did we also have a discussion on the

4026
02:17:45,679 --> 02:17:47,400
previous parking studies that were done

4027
02:17:47,400 --> 02:17:49,679
in Joaquin that found that there is

4028
02:17:49,679 --> 02:17:52,440
enough parking there by looking at

4029
02:17:52,440 --> 02:17:54,920
overnight numbers that there were still

4030
02:17:54,920 --> 02:17:57,080
on-street parking spaces available?

4031
02:17:57,080 --> 02:17:58,400
>> We did talk about that. There was a

4032
02:17:58,400 --> 02:17:59,920
study done. That was a long time ago,

4033
02:17:59,920 --> 02:18:01,040
and things could have changed.

4034
02:18:01,040 --> 02:18:03,559
>> Okay. That's that's good to know. I also

4035
02:18:03,559 --> 02:18:07,160
really like to in this proposal that

4036
02:18:07,160 --> 02:18:10,240
the parking would be rolled in with the

4037
02:18:10,240 --> 02:18:12,480
rent. You know, like it seemed like

4038
02:18:12,480 --> 02:18:14,920
there were some really good things to

4039
02:18:14,920 --> 02:18:16,719
avoid the particular problems that we've

4040
02:18:16,719 --> 02:18:18,840
already seen. Students not wanting to

4041
02:18:18,840 --> 02:18:21,040
pay additional amount for the parking,

4042
02:18:21,040 --> 02:18:22,760
so they're not using those lots. Like

4043
02:18:22,760 --> 02:18:24,840
this solves for that.

4044
02:18:24,840 --> 02:18:26,519
It seems that this solves for the

4045
02:18:26,519 --> 02:18:29,800
current parking issues that we have in

4046
02:18:29,800 --> 02:18:31,880
this area of the city, and certainly the

4047
02:18:31,880 --> 02:18:35,200
area south of campus is in my district.

4048
02:18:35,200 --> 02:18:36,719
And I'm

4049
02:18:36,719 --> 02:18:39,000
on my bike right there every day seeing

4050
02:18:39,000 --> 02:18:41,559
it. I was riding through it today.

4051
02:18:41,559 --> 02:18:43,480
Um

4052
02:18:43,480 --> 02:18:46,519
I also recognize that by making this

4053
02:18:46,519 --> 02:18:48,519
change

4054
02:18:48,519 --> 02:18:50,559
preemptively

4055
02:18:50,559 --> 02:18:56,160
we lose that um

4056
02:18:56,160 --> 02:18:58,519
kind of nitpicky oversight control over

4057
02:18:58,519 --> 02:19:00,639
every little project, but we also make

4058
02:19:00,639 --> 02:19:02,880
it easier to accomplish our goals of

4059
02:19:02,880 --> 02:19:06,360
getting this area redeveloped, which we

4060
02:19:06,360 --> 02:19:08,559
very, very much want.

4061
02:19:08,559 --> 02:19:11,599
Because insisting that we review every

4062
02:19:11,599 --> 02:19:14,240
single project that comes in

4063
02:19:14,240 --> 02:19:17,440
is making it cost a lot more.

4064
02:19:17,440 --> 02:19:19,160
It's creating barriers to the

4065
02:19:19,160 --> 02:19:23,080
redevelopment that we say we want.

4066
02:19:23,080 --> 02:19:24,559
And

4067
02:19:24,559 --> 02:19:27,440
I'm really appreciative that this is a

4068
02:19:27,440 --> 02:19:30,360
proposal that has been developed

4069
02:19:30,360 --> 02:19:33,679
by the staff and administration looking

4070
02:19:33,679 --> 02:19:35,599
at the actual problems that they have

4071
02:19:35,599 --> 02:19:37,800
encountered and is their thoughtful

4072
02:19:37,800 --> 02:19:40,599
solution to it. And I think that it

4073
02:19:40,599 --> 02:19:43,639
behooves us to take the advice of the

4074
02:19:43,639 --> 02:19:46,360
people who are expert in our city on

4075
02:19:46,360 --> 02:19:49,240
these problems and listen to them. And

4076
02:19:49,240 --> 02:19:51,640
then our job is to

4077
02:19:51,640 --> 02:19:54,480
as counselors both to represent and to

4078
02:19:54,480 --> 02:19:57,200
educate our constituencies to help them

4079
02:19:57,200 --> 02:20:00,200
understand why our staff is supporting

4080
02:20:00,200 --> 02:20:02,280
this and why they believe it will make

4081
02:20:02,280 --> 02:20:05,110
things better.

4082
02:20:05,120 --> 02:20:05,680
Do we have our minutes?

4083
02:20:05,680 --> 02:20:07,200
>> Each block is about a quarter mile.

4084
02:20:07,200 --> 02:20:09,360
Each block is about 400 ft.

4085
02:20:09,360 --> 02:20:12,200
So, that that quarter mile is about a

4086
02:20:12,200 --> 02:20:14,000
little over two blocks away from

4087
02:20:14,000 --> 02:20:16,040
>> Two blocks. So, this is still within

4088
02:20:16,040 --> 02:20:19,120
that 500 North line that we've got.

4089
02:20:19,120 --> 02:20:22,240
>> Yeah, go down to almost 600 North about

4090
02:20:22,240 --> 02:20:23,880
>> Not even all the way to 600.

4091
02:20:23,880 --> 02:20:25,040
>> Yeah.

4092
02:20:25,040 --> 02:20:26,680
>> It's It's what I'm thinking in my head.

4093
02:20:26,680 --> 02:20:28,920
Just trying to do the math.

4094
02:20:28,920 --> 02:20:32,390
>> Yeah.

4095
02:20:32,400 --> 02:20:35,040
It says an eighth of a mile in the

4096
02:20:35,040 --> 02:20:36,840
proposed ordinance.

4097
02:20:36,840 --> 02:20:38,440
>> So, an eighth of a mile would be half of

4098
02:20:38,440 --> 02:20:40,120
that. Yeah.

4099
02:20:40,120 --> 02:20:44,510
>> Well, 600.

4100
02:20:44,520 --> 02:20:46,080
» So, that would be

4101
02:20:46,080 --> 02:20:47,560
>> Yeah, it means it's

4102
02:20:47,560 --> 02:20:52,320
very narrow band around the main campus.

4103
02:20:52,320 --> 02:20:55,760
And if if what we're concerned is about

4104
02:20:55,760 --> 02:20:58,480
is neighborhoods other than Joaquin,

4105
02:20:58,480 --> 02:21:01,840
then I suppose we could change it to

4106
02:21:01,840 --> 02:21:05,600
the span for just the south campus area.

4107
02:21:05,600 --> 02:21:08,680
If And how are we defining main campus?

4108
02:21:08,680 --> 02:21:11,480
Like, does does this include the stadium

4109
02:21:11,480 --> 02:21:14,520
or their public facilities where they do

4110
02:21:14,520 --> 02:21:16,920
their sales for surplus or

4111
02:21:16,920 --> 02:21:18,160
>> That's another question that came up in

4112
02:21:18,160 --> 02:21:20,120
planning commission. So, I think a map

4113
02:21:20,120 --> 02:21:21,840
is going to be helpful if any of this

4114
02:21:21,840 --> 02:21:23,240
does pass that we we'd want to

4115
02:21:23,240 --> 02:21:24,240
incorporate a map.

4116
02:21:24,240 --> 02:21:26,440
>> Especially since campus seems to be

4117
02:21:26,440 --> 02:21:29,880
expanding. So, we've got the campus east

4118
02:21:29,880 --> 02:21:32,120
and campus west and everything.

4119
02:21:32,120 --> 02:21:33,800
>> We were thinking of the main parcel. So,

4120
02:21:33,800 --> 02:21:36,240
this this is all one parcel up through

4121
02:21:36,240 --> 02:21:37,240
here.

4122
02:21:37,240 --> 02:21:38,480
That's what we were thinking when we

4123
02:21:38,480 --> 02:21:40,040
wrote it, but that's not clear in the

4124
02:21:40,040 --> 02:21:42,600
code. So, I think we a map would be

4125
02:21:42,600 --> 02:21:43,120
a life saver.

4126
02:21:43,120 --> 02:21:44,440
>> For years we've been anticipating

4127
02:21:44,440 --> 02:21:47,560
redevelopment north of 500 North. This

4128
02:21:47,560 --> 02:21:49,480
amendment doesn't take you down that

4129
02:21:49,480 --> 02:21:49,960
far.

4130
02:21:49,960 --> 02:21:50,360
>> Right.

4131
02:21:50,360 --> 02:21:55,120
>> Yeah, no. This is much more modest than that whole zone that needs to be

4132
02:21:55,120 --> 02:21:56,720
redeveloped.

4133
02:21:56,720 --> 02:21:57,600
>> Is that one block?

4134
02:21:57,600 --> 02:21:58,880
>> Yeah, it's two blocks.

4135
02:21:58,880 --> 02:21:59,720
>> Is there

4136
02:21:59,720 --> 02:22:03,400
>> Uh 8th mile is essentially one block and a quarter mile would be about two

4137
02:22:03,400 --> 02:22:03,880
blocks.

4138
02:22:03,880 --> 02:22:05,520
>> So there's there's two parts, yeah. So

4139
02:22:05,520 --> 02:22:06,160
it's two blocks.

4140
02:22:06,160 --> 02:22:08,480
>> That's almost the baby.

4141
02:22:08,480 --> 02:22:11,720
>> Yeah, so really just that 700 to 800

4142
02:22:11,720 --> 02:22:13,080
block

4143
02:22:13,080 --> 02:22:15,040
that's south of campus.

4144
02:22:15,040 --> 02:22:17,800
I mean, well there's also the other

4145
02:22:17,800 --> 02:22:19,360
>> Oh, Provo High and

4146
02:22:19,360 --> 02:22:21,280
>> Right, and that's why I think it might

4147
02:22:21,280 --> 02:22:24,520
be useful to constrain it, but

4148
02:22:24,520 --> 02:22:28,030
>> There's really nothing.

4149
02:22:28,040 --> 02:22:29,680
» Yeah, cuz you've got the hospital and

4150
02:22:29,680 --> 02:22:31,400
everything, yeah.

4151
02:22:31,400 --> 02:22:33,760
So it may be a moot point over there. I

4152
02:22:33,760 --> 02:22:35,080
guess the other part that we need to

4153
02:22:35,080 --> 02:22:38,800
consider is on 900 East, right?

4154
02:22:38,800 --> 02:22:40,600
And so

4155
02:22:40,600 --> 02:22:42,520
I think it would make more sense to have

4156
02:22:42,520 --> 02:22:45,320
this line at 900 East and not include

4157
02:22:45,320 --> 02:22:46,480
the new

4158
02:22:46,480 --> 02:22:46,800
>> Yeah, the

4159
02:22:46,800 --> 02:22:50,320
>> Wasatch campus area. Like absolutely

4160
02:22:50,320 --> 02:22:53,160
not. We're not going into the tree

4161
02:22:53,160 --> 02:22:54,920
streets or that neighborhood with this

4162
02:22:54,920 --> 02:22:56,040
change.

4163
02:22:56,040 --> 02:22:59,360
>> Aaron, did you say that that that what we

4164
02:22:59,360 --> 02:23:01,200
consider the main campus is just one

4165
02:23:01,200 --> 02:23:02,080
parcel?

4166
02:23:02,080 --> 02:23:03,320
>> Yes.

4167
02:23:03,320 --> 02:23:04,600
>> So we could actually split the

4168
02:23:04,600 --> 02:23:06,200
>> We could we could define parcel number

4169
02:23:06,200 --> 02:23:07,080
in the

4170
02:23:07,080 --> 02:23:07,840
ordinance and say

4171
02:23:07,840 --> 02:23:10,040
>> But then but then the boundary

4172
02:23:10,040 --> 02:23:11,640
if it's expanding to the east, which

4173
02:23:11,640 --> 02:23:13,400
would be a problem, so we want to kind

4174
02:23:13,400 --> 02:23:14,560
of rework that.

4175
02:23:14,560 --> 02:23:15,320
>> If

4176
02:23:15,320 --> 02:23:17,160
>> Because they could combine parcels.

4177
02:23:17,160 --> 02:23:18,120
>> Right, so

4178
02:23:18,120 --> 02:23:19,640
>> the parcel is all the way to 900 East,

4179
02:23:19,640 --> 02:23:21,560
so then you've got that 8th mile and

4180
02:23:21,560 --> 02:23:23,320
quarter mile up there going that way.

4181
02:23:23,320 --> 02:23:23,760
>> Oh.

4182
02:23:23,760 --> 02:23:25,400
>> Into the some of these these

4183
02:23:25,400 --> 02:23:26,640
neighborhoods, too.

4184
02:23:26,640 --> 02:23:28,320
If those were to get rezoned and

4185
02:23:28,320 --> 02:23:30,280
redevelop and all these

4186
02:23:30,280 --> 02:23:33,000
things happen first.

4187
02:23:33,000 --> 02:23:34,400
>> So what I'm looking at is I think this

4188
02:23:34,400 --> 02:23:36,480
would be really, really useful for that

4189
02:23:36,480 --> 02:23:38,880
block south of campus.

4190
02:23:38,880 --> 02:23:41,360
And that's an area where we really want

4191
02:23:41,360 --> 02:23:44,560
to have these more new higher density

4192
02:23:44,560 --> 02:23:46,560
student housing. And this looks like a

4193
02:23:46,560 --> 02:23:49,160
really good way to accomplish it. And

4194
02:23:49,160 --> 02:23:52,670
it's not

4195
02:23:52,680 --> 02:23:54,440
It's It's a good way to see if this

4196
02:23:54,440 --> 02:23:56,800
actually works in that very constrained

4197
02:23:56,800 --> 02:23:59,400
area without

4198
02:23:59,400 --> 02:24:01,080
completely throwing off the balance of

4199
02:24:01,080 --> 02:24:03,840
all of Joaquin or you know, affecting

4200
02:24:03,840 --> 02:24:05,840
the rest of the city.

4201
02:24:05,840 --> 02:24:08,670
Um

4202
02:24:08,680 --> 02:24:11,000
So, that that's why I like it, but I

4203
02:24:11,000 --> 02:24:13,040
also want it to define BYU campus a

4204
02:24:13,040 --> 02:24:29,030
little bit better for this.

4205
02:24:29,040 --> 02:24:30,600
» In case our closet, you will be able to

4206
02:24:30,600 --> 02:24:31,840
see that individual light because it's

4207
02:24:31,840 --> 02:24:32,840
going to have to tell me first to

4208
02:24:32,840 --> 02:24:33,480
change.

4209
02:24:33,480 --> 02:24:34,800
>> Okay.

4210
02:24:34,800 --> 02:24:36,280
>> Yeah.

4211
02:24:36,280 --> 02:24:39,550
I did.

4212
02:24:39,560 --> 02:24:50,470
Because it's an RC.

4213
02:24:50,480 --> 02:24:50,720
So,

4214
02:24:50,720 --> 02:24:52,480
>> Right.

4215
02:24:52,480 --> 02:24:55,120
Any more comments?

4216
02:24:55,120 --> 02:24:58,680
>> So, Rachel, what about that half a block base 1/4

4217
02:24:58,680 --> 02:25:00,440
mile of any

4218
02:25:00,440 --> 02:25:02,160
um transit

4219
02:25:02,160 --> 02:25:04,720
mixed use?

4220
02:25:04,720 --> 02:25:06,960
>> A couple blocks.

4221
02:25:06,960 --> 02:25:09,760
So, that does make it a lot larger.

4222
02:25:09,760 --> 02:25:11,920
I think that's useful, but I would

4223
02:25:11,920 --> 02:25:13,440
rather

4224
02:25:13,440 --> 02:25:16,440
us as a council do something to try this

4225
02:25:16,440 --> 02:25:19,040
out. And so, my compromise would be just

4226
02:25:19,040 --> 02:25:21,840
to do that 8th mile south of campus

4227
02:25:21,840 --> 02:25:24,000
and perhaps strip out

4228
02:25:24,000 --> 02:25:27,120
just at that one area to see if if we

4229
02:25:27,120 --> 02:25:29,120
get any traction with it. I think it

4230
02:25:29,120 --> 02:25:30,880
would be incredibly useful to do this

4231
02:25:30,880 --> 02:25:33,080
along the transit line.

4232
02:25:33,080 --> 02:25:36,720
And I recognize that there's discomfort

4233
02:25:36,720 --> 02:25:38,920
with the council for doing that. I don't

4234
02:25:38,920 --> 02:25:39,880
know if the council would be more

4235
02:25:39,880 --> 02:25:41,840
comfortable changing all of that to an

4236
02:25:41,840 --> 02:25:43,320
eighth of a mile.

4237
02:25:43,320 --> 02:25:45,360
Or the Okay, sounds like at least

4238
02:25:45,360 --> 02:25:50,070
there's one though. Um

4239
02:25:50,080 --> 02:25:51,880
But

4240
02:25:51,880 --> 02:25:55,120
like we we really have gotten stuck

4241
02:25:55,120 --> 02:25:57,080
south of campus.

4242
02:25:57,080 --> 02:25:59,680
Councilor McKain and I have for years

4243
02:25:59,680 --> 02:26:01,760
been saying we want this area

4244
02:26:01,760 --> 02:26:04,200
redeveloped and

4245
02:26:04,200 --> 02:26:08,120
trying to anytime we talk to realtors or

4246
02:26:08,120 --> 02:26:10,000
developers and we say, "Please do this."

4247
02:26:10,000 --> 02:26:13,280
And nobody has taken us up on it.

4248
02:26:13,280 --> 02:26:14,520
>> Having an opportunity zone in our

4249
02:26:14,520 --> 02:26:16,480
future, I hope it does something. Cuz

4250
02:26:16,480 --> 02:26:17,960
the developers I talked to who said they

4251
02:26:17,960 --> 02:26:21,840
wouldn't develop now would develop with

4252
02:26:21,840 --> 02:26:27,080
an opportunity zone. So, I'm hoping that is the trigger we need to move

4253
02:26:27,080 --> 02:26:28,440
things in that direction.

4254
02:26:28,440 --> 02:26:31,280
>> Yeah. We still can't do

4255
02:26:31,280 --> 02:26:32,480
Like I I

4256
02:26:32,480 --> 02:26:33,880
The reason it doesn't work for me to do

4257
02:26:33,880 --> 02:26:35,560
something that hurts people's quality of

4258
02:26:35,560 --> 02:26:37,480
life

4259
02:26:37,480 --> 02:26:39,320
just to try and get something we want to

4260
02:26:39,320 --> 02:26:41,080
that is a good thing. So, that it has to

4261
02:26:41,080 --> 02:26:42,120
be a whole picture. It has to be

4262
02:26:42,120 --> 02:26:44,720
holistically a good thing.

4263
02:26:44,720 --> 02:26:46,320
>> I I don't see how this would hurt the

4264
02:26:46,320 --> 02:26:47,920
quality of life of our students living

4265
02:26:47,920 --> 02:26:49,800
south of campus. Having been a student

4266
02:26:49,800 --> 02:26:52,440
who lived immediately south of campus,

4267
02:26:52,440 --> 02:26:54,600
anything we do to change that housing

4268
02:26:54,600 --> 02:26:56,360
stock will only improve their quality of

4269
02:26:56,360 --> 02:26:57,440
life.

4270
02:26:57,440 --> 02:26:59,200
>> Well, people are still miserable about

4271
02:26:59,200 --> 02:27:00,840
the parking. It's still a huge issue.

4272
02:27:00,840 --> 02:27:02,720
>> I think we've all lived south of campus.

4273
02:27:02,720 --> 02:27:03,880
>> Yes.

4274
02:27:03,880 --> 02:27:05,760
>> It's it's all spillover issues to the

4275
02:27:05,760 --> 02:27:06,882
council.

4276
02:27:06,882 --> 02:27:08,280
>> [laughter]

4277
02:27:08,280 --> 02:27:11,560
>> Well, uh again, we we go over this. I'm

4278
02:27:11,560 --> 02:27:13,480
I I again, I appreciate the creative

4279
02:27:13,480 --> 02:27:15,640
thought that went into it. I I I think

4280
02:27:15,640 --> 02:27:18,440
it's too large, too expensive.

4281
02:27:18,440 --> 02:27:20,960
Am I open to uh something different

4282
02:27:20,960 --> 02:27:23,000
where it might be more targeted?

4283
02:27:23,000 --> 02:27:25,720
Um I also share the concern that may be

4284
02:27:25,720 --> 02:27:26,840
a better way to do it. It may be an

4285
02:27:26,840 --> 02:27:28,240
opportunity zone.

4286
02:27:28,240 --> 02:27:29,840
I'm not sure that changing the parking

4287
02:27:29,840 --> 02:27:32,120
cuz we also have families living there,

4288
02:27:32,120 --> 02:27:33,640
not just students. If we actually

4289
02:27:33,640 --> 02:27:34,560
blocked it out and said, "This is

4290
02:27:34,560 --> 02:27:36,120
students only. You'll only be a student

4291
02:27:36,120 --> 02:27:37,480
living here?

4292
02:27:37,480 --> 02:27:39,640
But, I think that more housing stock

4293
02:27:39,640 --> 02:27:42,640
will exacerbate the parking issue.

4294
02:27:42,640 --> 02:27:44,600
>> Are there any non-student families

4295
02:27:44,600 --> 02:27:46,520
living in that one block south of

4296
02:27:46,520 --> 02:27:47,400
campus?

4297
02:27:47,400 --> 02:27:48,520
>> I think it's on one street.

4298
02:27:48,520 --> 02:27:49,920
>> Your turn over one block?

4299
02:27:49,920 --> 02:27:52,400
>> Yeah, that 1/8 of a mile south of

4300
02:27:52,400 --> 02:27:53,000
campus.

4301
02:27:53,000 --> 02:27:54,400
>> that's what I'm saying.

4302
02:27:54,400 --> 02:27:55,960
Maybe there is a slice that we could

4303
02:27:55,960 --> 02:27:58,360
take a look at. This proposal, I think

4304
02:27:58,360 --> 02:27:59,640
is

4305
02:27:59,640 --> 02:28:04,640
it's it's just far too broad. And so, is

4306
02:28:04,640 --> 02:28:06,960
there something uh

4307
02:28:06,960 --> 02:28:09,040
Could be. Could be.

4308
02:28:09,040 --> 02:28:10,240
Um

4309
02:28:10,240 --> 02:28:12,720
but I I'm not uh in favor of the

4310
02:28:12,720 --> 02:28:13,680
proposal.

4311
02:28:13,680 --> 02:28:14,560
>> So

4312
02:28:14,560 --> 02:28:17,400
but what what would be? What what narrow

4313
02:28:17,400 --> 02:28:20,440
enough thing would you be supportive of?

4314
02:28:20,440 --> 02:28:21,880
>> I would be supportive of actually

4315
02:28:21,880 --> 02:28:24,480
talking to individual developers. I So,

4316
02:28:24,480 --> 02:28:25,760
let's take the ones that you're going to

4317
02:28:25,760 --> 02:28:27,720
build. Let's let's work with them and

4318
02:28:27,720 --> 02:28:28,880
see if we can come up with a template

4319
02:28:28,880 --> 02:28:32,350
that would work.

4320
02:28:32,360 --> 02:28:35,240
>> Purdue development.

4321
02:28:35,240 --> 02:28:36,560
>> Would you be supportive of block Park

4322
02:28:36,560 --> 02:28:38,080
Plaza?

4323
02:28:38,080 --> 02:28:39,000
>> Well, we need to talk about the

4324
02:28:39,000 --> 02:28:39,840
particulars of it, right?

4325
02:28:39,840 --> 02:28:42,000
>> Yeah. I again, I think that that makes

4326
02:28:42,000 --> 02:28:43,320
sense. Here's Here's what I don't want

4327
02:28:43,320 --> 02:28:44,120
to do. I don't want to swing the

4328
02:28:44,120 --> 02:28:45,640
pendulum so far the other side and we

4329
02:28:45,640 --> 02:28:48,200
have the other unintended consequences.

4330
02:28:48,200 --> 02:28:49,800
Because the parking is a big deal. We

4331
02:28:49,800 --> 02:28:52,160
can say, "No, it's not a big

4332
02:28:52,160 --> 02:28:54,040
It's what I hear about the most or one

4333
02:28:54,040 --> 02:28:55,400
of the things.

4334
02:28:55,400 --> 02:28:56,760
Um

4335
02:28:56,760 --> 02:29:03,000
so I I would be much more in favor of a much more focused and modest approach

4336
02:29:03,000 --> 02:29:04,440
so we don't

4337
02:29:04,440 --> 02:29:06,040
uh swing the pendulum over and knock the

4338
02:29:06,040 --> 02:29:07,480
plaster off that wall of sheds and ruin

4339
02:29:07,480 --> 02:29:08,058
it.

4340
02:29:08,058 --> 02:29:08,600
>> [laughter]

4341
02:29:08,600 --> 02:29:10,120
>> Like we have people that promised things

4342
02:29:10,120 --> 02:29:11,640
that didn't work out. We have the Men

4343
02:29:11,640 --> 02:29:13,360
and Night Hall has huge parking issues.

4344
02:29:13,360 --> 02:29:14,880
We have the Village that promised they

4345
02:29:14,880 --> 02:29:16,680
wouldn't rent to people who didn't have

4346
02:29:16,680 --> 02:29:17,880
a car once their spots were gone. They

4347
02:29:17,880 --> 02:29:20,120
didn't do that. Huge issues over there.

4348
02:29:20,120 --> 02:29:23,560
We have the tall one by 90 East.

4349
02:29:23,560 --> 02:29:24,360
I can't remember the name of it.

4350
02:29:24,360 --> 02:29:25,000
>> remember the name either.

4351
02:29:25,000 --> 02:29:26,920
>> Yeah. But, that one has huge issues.

4352
02:29:26,920 --> 02:29:28,040
I've had a number of babysitters who

4353
02:29:28,040 --> 02:29:29,080
lived there. They parked just drove

4354
02:29:29,080 --> 02:29:30,320
around at night for a couple hours

4355
02:29:30,320 --> 02:29:31,960
waiting for a spot to open.

4356
02:29:31,960 --> 02:29:34,360
Like there's these places are quality of

4357
02:29:34,360 --> 02:29:36,160
life issue for people and it's they're

4358
02:29:36,160 --> 02:29:38,320
miserable. The dorms are an issue at

4359
02:29:38,320 --> 02:29:39,960
BYU. They don't take any responsibility

4360
02:29:39,960 --> 02:29:41,360
there.

4361
02:29:41,360 --> 02:29:43,040
They think that that kids with dorms

4362
02:29:43,040 --> 02:29:45,520
wouldn't bring cars, they bring cars.

4363
02:29:45,520 --> 02:29:47,760
So they're parking in the streets.

4364
02:29:47,760 --> 02:29:49,440
>> I have a question. Yeah, how long is it

4365
02:29:49,440 --> 02:29:51,080
going to take for the opportunity zone

4366
02:29:51,080 --> 02:29:53,320
to for us to know whether we're granted

4367
02:29:53,320 --> 02:29:54,280
it or not?

4368
02:29:54,280 --> 02:29:57,720
>> Do you know, Marsha, when we find out?

4369
02:29:57,720 --> 02:29:59,400
The deadline's passed when we had to

4370
02:29:59,400 --> 02:30:02,360
turn in our request. And so the governor

4371
02:30:02,360 --> 02:30:05,240
picks which I think it's

4372
02:30:05,240 --> 02:30:07,800
I heard it's 35-ish

4373
02:30:07,800 --> 02:30:10,000
maybe for the whole state.

4374
02:30:10,000 --> 02:30:13,040
And so we picked a bunch of spots, but

4375
02:30:13,040 --> 02:30:15,760
our first picks were south of campus. I

4376
02:30:15,760 --> 02:30:18,320
think we picked like four or five spots.

4377
02:30:18,320 --> 02:30:20,120
and then the first

4378
02:30:20,120 --> 02:30:21,920
>> prioritize

4379
02:30:21,920 --> 02:30:24,080
>> Okay, so we prioritize south of campus

4380
02:30:24,080 --> 02:30:26,240
and so we're just waiting to see.

4381
02:30:26,240 --> 02:30:27,880
>> But I think that's a great point. We

4382
02:30:27,880 --> 02:30:29,480
probably should see what that does

4383
02:30:29,480 --> 02:30:31,280
first, right?

4384
02:30:31,280 --> 02:30:33,840
Before we get to surgically removing a

4385
02:30:33,840 --> 02:30:35,920
whole block.

4386
02:30:35,920 --> 02:30:37,680
Because that would give us our parking

4387
02:30:37,680 --> 02:30:39,280
and

4388
02:30:39,280 --> 02:30:41,480
the other right now I'm I'm kind of

4389
02:30:41,480 --> 02:30:43,360
jumping ahead before we see what that'll

4390
02:30:43,360 --> 02:30:44,520
actually do.

4391
02:30:44,520 --> 02:30:46,440
>> I just asked for the yield.

4392
02:30:46,440 --> 02:30:47,840
>> He's the project manager and now I just

4393
02:30:47,840 --> 02:30:48,520
asked him.

4394
02:30:48,520 --> 02:30:49,080
>> Oh, okay.

4395
02:30:49,080 --> 02:30:50,960
>> What the deadline is?

4396
02:30:50,960 --> 02:30:52,040
>> Um

4397
02:30:52,040 --> 02:30:53,680
I I hear from citizens and I have like

4398
02:30:53,680 --> 02:30:55,280
my lived experience. Like I lived in San

4399
02:30:55,280 --> 02:30:56,480
Francisco. I had awesome public

4400
02:30:56,480 --> 02:30:58,600
transportation, the BART, the Caltrain.

4401
02:30:58,600 --> 02:31:00,440
Everyone still had a car.

4402
02:31:00,440 --> 02:31:02,000
What was fascinating is rent was not

4403
02:31:02,000 --> 02:31:03,800
cheap, housing was not cheap, they had

4404
02:31:03,800 --> 02:31:05,240
no parking.

4405
02:31:05,240 --> 02:31:07,800
But it was even more expensive because

4406
02:31:07,800 --> 02:31:09,200
they just paid a thousand to two

4407
02:31:09,200 --> 02:31:10,920
thousand a month in parking fines or

4408
02:31:10,920 --> 02:31:13,360
parking paid parking. That's what people

4409
02:31:13,360 --> 02:31:14,960
It was just an expense on top of their

4410
02:31:14,960 --> 02:31:18,960
rent or on top of their mortgage.

4411
02:31:18,960 --> 02:31:20,600
Like these big cities don't have cheaper

4412
02:31:20,600 --> 02:31:22,840
housing than us. These big cities don't

4413
02:31:22,840 --> 02:31:24,480
have

4414
02:31:24,480 --> 02:31:25,960
things aren't cheaper.

4415
02:31:25,960 --> 02:31:27,360
So this idea that we keep building

4416
02:31:27,360 --> 02:31:28,800
denser and denser and with less parking

4417
02:31:28,800 --> 02:31:29,560
it's going to get cheaper. It doesn't

4418
02:31:29,560 --> 02:31:32,350
get cheaper.

4419
02:31:32,360 --> 02:31:34,080
I don't see it. There's not examples of

4420
02:31:34,080 --> 02:31:37,510
it getting cheaper.

4421
02:31:37,520 --> 02:31:40,800
» Uh there are like Austin's gone down,

4422
02:31:40,800 --> 02:31:42,920
Indianapolis has gone down.

4423
02:31:42,920 --> 02:31:44,000
>> And Indianapolis is still going down,

4424
02:31:44,000 --> 02:31:44,200
yeah.

4425
02:31:44,200 --> 02:31:47,480
>> It's in rents. I'm saying that I think

4426
02:31:47,480 --> 02:31:49,640
the issue is I mean

4427
02:31:49,640 --> 02:31:52,240
macro supply and demand

4428
02:31:52,240 --> 02:31:54,640
factors just exist. They're reality. The

4429
02:31:54,640 --> 02:31:56,400
issue is like with some of these cities

4430
02:31:56,400 --> 02:31:58,320
you mentioned that they actually have

4431
02:31:58,320 --> 02:32:00,720
extremely restrictive housing policies

4432
02:32:00,720 --> 02:32:02,480
and demand has gone way faster than

4433
02:32:02,480 --> 02:32:04,480
supply. And that's the situation I think

4434
02:32:04,480 --> 02:32:06,280
we're in now. It's like

4435
02:32:06,280 --> 02:32:08,080
uh UVU dramatically increased their

4436
02:32:08,080 --> 02:32:10,440
housing their student population.

4437
02:32:10,440 --> 02:32:12,240
BYU has a little bit More and more

4438
02:32:12,240 --> 02:32:13,600
students keep coming to live here and we

4439
02:32:13,600 --> 02:32:15,200
just haven't increased our housing stock

4440
02:32:15,200 --> 02:32:17,600
for students relative to that. And that

4441
02:32:17,600 --> 02:32:19,880
to me is the frame that I see when I

4442
02:32:19,880 --> 02:32:22,960
hear people complaining a lot. It's like

4443
02:32:22,960 --> 02:32:23,840
we can do better with zoning

4444
02:32:23,840 --> 02:32:25,000
enforcement, but as long as

4445
02:32:25,000 --> 02:32:26,520
fundamentally we don't have enough

4446
02:32:26,520 --> 02:32:27,720
housing stock for students, we're going

4447
02:32:27,720 --> 02:32:29,520
to continually fighting a losing battle

4448
02:32:29,520 --> 02:32:31,600
because the root cause is off.

4449
02:32:31,600 --> 02:32:32,640
That's

4450
02:32:32,640 --> 02:32:34,080
And so

4451
02:32:34,080 --> 02:32:35,640
I agree. I I agree with everything

4452
02:32:35,640 --> 02:32:37,040
that's been said about, you know, this

4453
02:32:37,040 --> 02:32:39,320
particularly too broad of a brush, but

4454
02:32:39,320 --> 02:32:41,320
um

4455
02:32:41,320 --> 02:32:42,640
And maybe the opportunity zone is the

4456
02:32:42,640 --> 02:32:46,080
trigger, but I I I I feel like

4457
02:32:46,080 --> 02:32:47,680
if we're able to get more student

4458
02:32:47,680 --> 02:32:49,920
housing closer to campus, a lot of the

4459
02:32:49,920 --> 02:32:52,080
parking problems actually will be less.

4460
02:32:52,080 --> 02:32:54,120
Not because people are bringing

4461
02:32:54,120 --> 02:32:55,560
less cars cuz they People are still

4462
02:32:55,560 --> 02:32:56,640
going to bring cars. It's that we're

4463
02:32:56,640 --> 02:32:58,000
actually under-parked. And that's the

4464
02:32:58,000 --> 02:32:59,520
analysis I really would love to see done

4465
02:32:59,520 --> 02:33:01,240
cuz that's the data we need. It's like

4466
02:33:01,240 --> 02:33:04,440
we really look at the area around BYU

4467
02:33:04,440 --> 02:33:06,280
and we say, "Okay, what is our best

4468
02:33:06,280 --> 02:33:07,880
estimate on how much parking is relative

4469
02:33:07,880 --> 02:33:09,720
to students living in this area?" And

4470
02:33:09,720 --> 02:33:10,800
would that actually change if we

4471
02:33:10,800 --> 02:33:12,280
redevelop south of campus with the new

4472
02:33:12,280 --> 02:33:13,320
parking ratio?

4473
02:33:13,320 --> 02:33:15,160
>> So, on that same line of thinking, I I

4474
02:33:15,160 --> 02:33:16,280
agree with you. I don't think we should

4475
02:33:16,280 --> 02:33:17,800
depend on

4476
02:33:17,800 --> 02:33:19,320
these great strains on it to cheaper

4477
02:33:19,320 --> 02:33:21,680
rent for the students. But just bringing

4478
02:33:21,680 --> 02:33:23,960
more product to market

4479
02:33:23,960 --> 02:33:25,520
helps the marketplace, right?

4480
02:33:25,520 --> 02:33:28,830
>> Yeah.

4481
02:33:28,840 --> 02:33:31,200
» Well, I I would be in favor I'm sorry.

4482
02:33:31,200 --> 02:33:31,960
You going to say something?

4483
02:33:31,960 --> 02:33:33,280
>> You go ahead and then go on.

4484
02:33:33,280 --> 02:33:36,840
>> Uh I would I would be in favor of trying

4485
02:33:36,840 --> 02:33:38,720
some creative things. And hopefully the

4486
02:33:38,720 --> 02:33:40,680
opportunity zones do provide something

4487
02:33:40,680 --> 02:33:42,640
like that. I like the idea of saying,

4488
02:33:42,640 --> 02:33:45,080
let's take something very specific

4489
02:33:45,080 --> 02:33:46,160
and let's see if we can get a develop

4490
02:33:46,160 --> 02:33:47,320
work with a developer and let's actually

4491
02:33:47,320 --> 02:33:50,000
try something. Now, the ones we've tried

4492
02:33:50,000 --> 02:33:51,440
in the past

4493
02:33:51,440 --> 02:33:53,240
uh we don't have success stories.

4494
02:33:53,240 --> 02:33:55,320
Uh there's a number of these that you've

4495
02:33:55,320 --> 02:33:59,280
stated where it was said this and that, but again, maybe we could be

4496
02:33:59,280 --> 02:34:00,640
clever enough to figure out a way to put

4497
02:34:00,640 --> 02:34:02,320
guardrails around that.

4498
02:34:02,320 --> 02:34:03,440
Um

4499
02:34:03,440 --> 02:34:04,360
because if we could come up with a

4500
02:34:04,360 --> 02:34:06,680
formula that works, uh again, I I love

4501
02:34:06,680 --> 02:34:09,000
that idea as long as it doesn't have the

4502
02:34:09,000 --> 02:34:11,120
unintended consequences of affecting

4503
02:34:11,120 --> 02:34:12,600
neighborhoods.

4504
02:34:12,600 --> 02:34:13,680
Um

4505
02:34:13,680 --> 02:34:14,760
and I'd love to think we're clever

4506
02:34:14,760 --> 02:34:17,080
enough to do that. Um I don't think this

4507
02:34:17,080 --> 02:34:19,360
does that. Uh so my my vote would be,

4508
02:34:19,360 --> 02:34:21,120
let's repeal this

4509
02:34:21,120 --> 02:34:22,680
and let's let's let's take a different

4510
02:34:22,680 --> 02:34:24,120
approach to it.

4511
02:34:24,120 --> 02:34:26,240
Let's let's actually hope that we get an

4512
02:34:26,240 --> 02:34:28,040
opportunity zone and let's put that

4513
02:34:28,040 --> 02:34:29,720
together and let's let's actually try

4514
02:34:29,720 --> 02:34:32,640
something very creative. I I don't think

4515
02:34:32,640 --> 02:34:34,040
that this is the creative solution that

4516
02:34:34,040 --> 02:34:36,480
we that we need and there could be one.

4517
02:34:36,480 --> 02:34:41,000
>> What do you think about the concept if we have like the

4518
02:34:41,000 --> 02:34:42,440
long-term lease agreement in place or

4519
02:34:42,440 --> 02:34:43,600
some solution for that, what do you

4520
02:34:43,600 --> 02:34:45,160
think about that idea?

4521
02:34:45,160 --> 02:34:46,800
>> Well, I like that I the lease is

4522
02:34:46,800 --> 02:34:49,360
problematic because it's not fee simple.

4523
02:34:49,360 --> 02:34:51,520
It's a it's a leasehold is there for

4524
02:34:51,520 --> 02:34:54,400
some period of time and it goes away

4525
02:34:54,400 --> 02:34:56,640
so we could we could do a lot of things

4526
02:34:56,640 --> 02:34:58,440
and then it creates enforcement issues

4527
02:34:58,440 --> 02:35:00,240
and that may be the best we can do. We

4528
02:35:00,240 --> 02:35:01,600
talked about the

4529
02:35:01,600 --> 02:35:02,560
uh parking lot.

4530
02:35:02,560 --> 02:35:04,760
>> Yeah, the that that one is

4531
02:35:04,760 --> 02:35:05,360
>> Yeah, please.

4532
02:35:05,360 --> 02:35:07,400
>> So, um I appreciate all the discussion

4533
02:35:07,400 --> 02:35:08,560
and I know that you've raised really

4534
02:35:08,560 --> 02:35:11,120
valid concerns. Um

4535
02:35:11,120 --> 02:35:13,400
one of the things that opportunity zones

4536
02:35:13,400 --> 02:35:15,480
might address some of the financing part

4537
02:35:15,480 --> 02:35:17,560
of it, but it doesn't address what it

4538
02:35:17,560 --> 02:35:20,640
looks like in these areas if we insist

4539
02:35:20,640 --> 02:35:22,400
on

4540
02:35:22,400 --> 02:35:24,720
the parking for every bed that we have

4541
02:35:24,720 --> 02:35:26,480
now because that's just a big huge

4542
02:35:26,480 --> 02:35:28,040
parking lot. They'll have to cut back on

4543
02:35:28,040 --> 02:35:29,440
any amenities. They aren't going to have

4544
02:35:29,440 --> 02:35:31,320
as many um rooms [clears throat]

4545
02:35:31,320 --> 02:35:33,520
available. Like it's So, I just think

4546
02:35:33,520 --> 02:35:35,200
that

4547
02:35:35,200 --> 02:35:39,200
it was interesting when there were uh three or four

4548
02:35:39,200 --> 02:35:40,560
developers that when they saw this was

4549
02:35:40,560 --> 02:35:41,920
going to be on the agenda, they

4550
02:35:41,920 --> 02:35:43,280
immediately came and saw me and said,

4551
02:35:43,280 --> 02:35:45,840
"We have had these plans waiting and

4552
02:35:45,840 --> 02:35:48,400
look at this and this is how we want to

4553
02:35:48,400 --> 02:35:49,200
um

4554
02:35:49,200 --> 02:35:51,240
to encourage students to not have cars."

4555
02:35:51,240 --> 02:35:53,200
Because I said, "That's you can't just

4556
02:35:53,200 --> 02:35:54,400
say we're not going to have cars." And

4557
02:35:54,400 --> 02:35:56,400
then not have cars because that hasn't

4558
02:35:56,400 --> 02:35:58,800
worked in the past, but it I mean um

4559
02:35:58,800 --> 02:36:02,000
Campus Plaza was able to to do it and uh

4560
02:36:02,000 --> 02:36:04,840
they have ideas. I just hope that you

4561
02:36:04,840 --> 02:36:07,120
keep your minds open uh to listen to

4562
02:36:07,120 --> 02:36:11,640
what they have to say. Uh the development where

4563
02:36:11,640 --> 02:36:14,640
Park Plaza is, if they have to do the

4564
02:36:14,640 --> 02:36:15,720
parking

4565
02:36:15,720 --> 02:36:17,600
with under code the way it is now, they

4566
02:36:17,600 --> 02:36:19,560
will have like four stories of parking

4567
02:36:19,560 --> 02:36:22,320
and then two small store two stories of

4568
02:36:22,320 --> 02:36:24,560
housing on top of that.

4569
02:36:24,560 --> 02:36:26,440
And is that what we want? Just big

4570
02:36:26,440 --> 02:36:28,320
parking garages everywhere or a lot of

4571
02:36:28,320 --> 02:36:29,920
asphalt everywhere? So, I think that

4572
02:36:29,920 --> 02:36:32,640
there's more at play. I understand

4573
02:36:32,640 --> 02:36:34,400
the concerns of the over parking. I

4574
02:36:34,400 --> 02:36:37,200
think that that Jeff has

4575
02:36:37,200 --> 02:36:38,520
really made a good point that it's

4576
02:36:38,520 --> 02:36:39,760
already

4577
02:36:39,760 --> 02:36:41,040
where where are they going to be

4578
02:36:41,040 --> 02:36:42,880
additional cars on it? Like it's already

4579
02:36:42,880 --> 02:36:44,720
over parked because we

4580
02:36:44,720 --> 02:36:46,720
because there are so many places that

4581
02:36:46,720 --> 02:36:48,840
don't have parking standards at all. And

4582
02:36:48,840 --> 02:36:51,760
so, at least getting additional parking

4583
02:36:51,760 --> 02:36:53,960
spaces in there and they do have some

4584
02:36:53,960 --> 02:36:55,280
creative solutions that I think you

4585
02:36:55,280 --> 02:36:57,640
might find interesting. Um I think that

4586
02:36:57,640 --> 02:36:58,920
an eighth

4587
02:36:58,920 --> 02:37:00,840
of a mile uh

4588
02:37:00,840 --> 02:37:02,760
from campus, I

4589
02:37:02,760 --> 02:37:04,320
if we even

4590
02:37:04,320 --> 02:37:05,560
I think that's a pretty surgical

4591
02:37:05,560 --> 02:37:07,760
targeted approach. I mean, if you think

4592
02:37:07,760 --> 02:37:09,640
it you want it to be less than that, I

4593
02:37:09,640 --> 02:37:10,960
mean, that's just

4594
02:37:10,960 --> 02:37:13,200
a street width and and a block, right?

4595
02:37:13,200 --> 02:37:14,240
Um

4596
02:37:14,240 --> 02:37:17,400
but I will respect whatever you figure

4597
02:37:17,400 --> 02:37:18,800
out. I just am asking you to please

4598
02:37:18,800 --> 02:37:21,120
listen to these developers that come in

4599
02:37:21,120 --> 02:37:22,480
and uh

4600
02:37:22,480 --> 02:37:23,520
hear what they have to say. They were

4601
02:37:23,520 --> 02:37:25,280
pretty excited.

4602
02:37:25,280 --> 02:37:27,240
>> Do you know, Mayor, what uh worked at

4603
02:37:27,240 --> 02:37:29,840
Camp- Campus Plaza

4604
02:37:29,840 --> 02:37:30,080
>> Um

4605
02:37:30,080 --> 02:37:31,360
>> in terms of what they were able to

4606
02:37:31,360 --> 02:37:33,040
restrict the number of

4607
02:37:33,040 --> 02:37:34,720
>> I'm sure that's I don't I don't know.

4608
02:37:34,720 --> 02:37:36,280
There wasn't anything we did.

4609
02:37:36,280 --> 02:37:38,680
>> And their ratio is 0.5.

4610
02:37:38,680 --> 02:37:39,040
>> And

4611
02:37:39,040 --> 02:37:40,160
>> We've never had a complaint on the

4612
02:37:40,160 --> 02:37:41,880
budget cuz they're vigilant about their

4613
02:37:41,880 --> 02:37:42,600
management.

4614
02:37:42,600 --> 02:37:44,000
>> Yeah, it's all the people spending time

4615
02:37:44,000 --> 02:37:45,160
to speak to them.

4616
02:37:45,160 --> 02:37:47,960
>> Do they do they require in the lease to

4617
02:37:47,960 --> 02:37:49,920
say that they're going to not bring a

4618
02:37:49,920 --> 02:37:51,680
car if there's an assigned spot so for

4619
02:37:51,680 --> 02:37:52,520
them?

4620
02:37:52,520 --> 02:37:53,680
>> That's my understanding, but I've asked

4621
02:37:53,680 --> 02:37:55,920
them to address that specifically.

4622
02:37:55,920 --> 02:37:59,350
>> Yes.

4623
02:37:59,360 --> 02:38:00,400
» And I've also asked them, "What do you

4624
02:38:00,400 --> 02:38:01,840
do with the

4625
02:38:01,840 --> 02:38:03,440
tenant if she just doesn't tell the

4626
02:38:03,440 --> 02:38:04,520
truth?"

4627
02:38:04,520 --> 02:38:05,320
>> Yeah.

4628
02:38:05,320 --> 02:38:06,360
>> How do you deal with that?

4629
02:38:06,360 --> 02:38:09,670
>> That's what I'm waiting from them.

4630
02:38:09,680 --> 02:38:11,059
» What do you do?

4631
02:38:11,059 --> 02:38:11,720
>> [clears throat and cough]

4632
02:38:11,720 --> 02:38:12,560
>> That's true.

4633
02:38:12,560 --> 02:38:14,440
>> Bill, do we have much information about

4634
02:38:14,440 --> 02:38:16,600
the Heritage Halls project since that

4635
02:38:16,600 --> 02:38:19,640
was a BYU project that basically has no

4636
02:38:19,640 --> 02:38:22,160
parking for what? 1,000 students that

4637
02:38:22,160 --> 02:38:23,720
live there. I know they park at the

4638
02:38:23,720 --> 02:38:26,160
Marriott Center or the stadium.

4639
02:38:26,160 --> 02:38:28,640
Do you know um

4640
02:38:28,640 --> 02:38:29,960
what um

4641
02:38:29,960 --> 02:38:32,200
what went into that and do their

4642
02:38:32,200 --> 02:38:34,720
students sign a lease or an agreement

4643
02:38:34,720 --> 02:38:37,840
that they won't bring a car?

4644
02:38:37,840 --> 02:38:39,840
>> So you mean the housing on 100 East?

4645
02:38:39,840 --> 02:38:41,560
>> Yes. Uh-huh.

4646
02:38:41,560 --> 02:38:43,120
>> So um

4647
02:38:43,120 --> 02:38:45,960
Yes, they do have their people park at

4648
02:38:45,960 --> 02:38:48,480
those remote lots like you've said. And

4649
02:38:48,480 --> 02:38:50,360
BYU has done a much better job managing

4650
02:38:50,360 --> 02:38:52,400
that and managing expectations the last

4651
02:38:52,400 --> 02:38:55,280
few years because every September I used

4652
02:38:55,280 --> 02:38:57,680
to get phone calls from very angry

4653
02:38:57,680 --> 02:38:59,520
mothers of coeds

4654
02:38:59,520 --> 02:39:01,360
whose daughters didn't feel safe walking

4655
02:39:01,360 --> 02:39:03,960
home from those remote lots in the late

4656
02:39:03,960 --> 02:39:06,560
evening hours or night hours. So BYU has

4657
02:39:06,560 --> 02:39:08,080
addressed that issue because I've gotten

4658
02:39:08,080 --> 02:39:10,200
a complaint on that from a parent in the

4659
02:39:10,200 --> 02:39:12,280
last several years. Exactly what those

4660
02:39:12,280 --> 02:39:15,000
methods are, I I don't know, but BYU has

4661
02:39:15,000 --> 02:39:16,640
been more engaged with us on parking

4662
02:39:16,640 --> 02:39:18,520
issues recently than they ever have

4663
02:39:18,520 --> 02:39:20,560
before. So, I'm sure we can get that

4664
02:39:20,560 --> 02:39:23,910
from them.

4665
02:39:23,920 --> 02:39:25,240
» Hey, does anyone have a

4666
02:39:25,240 --> 02:39:26,240
>> I have one more question.

4667
02:39:26,240 --> 02:39:27,160
>> What's the other

4668
02:39:27,160 --> 02:39:28,560
>> So, I think I think this has already

4669
02:39:28,560 --> 02:39:30,560
been raised, but just to put a point on

4670
02:39:30,560 --> 02:39:35,480
it is I think the two classic examples that you hear

4671
02:39:35,480 --> 02:39:37,560
when about when it's said we granted a

4672
02:39:37,560 --> 02:39:39,560
variance and it was poorly received

4673
02:39:39,560 --> 02:39:41,480
because a lot of extra parking came and

4674
02:39:41,480 --> 02:39:43,880
spilled onto the street is um

4675
02:39:43,880 --> 02:39:46,360
Amanda Knight Building and then

4676
02:39:46,360 --> 02:39:49,760
uh University Village. Yeah.

4677
02:39:49,760 --> 02:39:51,480
>> Startup as well.

4678
02:39:51,480 --> 02:39:52,360
>> Yeah.

4679
02:39:52,360 --> 02:39:53,160
>> The Village?

4680
02:39:53,160 --> 02:39:54,640
>> Yeah, the Village. The Village, yeah.

4681
02:39:54,640 --> 02:39:56,840
And maybe Startup, too. Is it

4682
02:39:56,840 --> 02:39:58,360
possible Like, do we have any way to

4683
02:39:58,360 --> 02:40:00,080
actually know what

4684
02:40:00,080 --> 02:40:03,400
like how many car cars per resident

4685
02:40:03,400 --> 02:40:04,440
Like, do we do you have any way to

4686
02:40:04,440 --> 02:40:06,040
estimate that at all?

4687
02:40:06,040 --> 02:40:07,480
>> No, we we don't.

4688
02:40:07,480 --> 02:40:08,440
>> I mean, we don't have that information.

4689
02:40:08,440 --> 02:40:09,360
We don't know what the information is

4690
02:40:09,360 --> 02:40:10,840
where the information is. We don't We

4691
02:40:10,840 --> 02:40:12,480
don't know what they're managing with

4692
02:40:12,480 --> 02:40:14,240
their with their tenants.

4693
02:40:14,240 --> 02:40:16,200
>> Yeah.

4694
02:40:16,200 --> 02:40:17,520
cuz that'd be I mean, cuz it's

4695
02:40:17,520 --> 02:40:19,120
like the thing the thing that I think a

4696
02:40:19,120 --> 02:40:20,560
lot about this conversation and I don't

4697
02:40:20,560 --> 02:40:22,600
mean in any way to

4698
02:40:22,600 --> 02:40:25,200
uh you know, to dis- discount what is

4699
02:40:25,200 --> 02:40:27,920
what people's experiences are, but um

4700
02:40:27,920 --> 02:40:32,800
a lot of it feels anecdotically anecdotally driven

4701
02:40:32,800 --> 02:40:34,360
um rather than data-driven, and I feel

4702
02:40:34,360 --> 02:40:36,960
like just more data would help because

4703
02:40:36,960 --> 02:40:38,640
the thing is like it it it's it's easy

4704
02:40:38,640 --> 02:40:40,440
to be annoyed about a parking situation

4705
02:40:40,440 --> 02:40:42,000
once and send an email that almost costs

4706
02:40:42,000 --> 02:40:44,440
nothing, and but we what's harder to see

4707
02:40:44,440 --> 02:40:46,960
is the people who, you know, um are

4708
02:40:46,960 --> 02:40:48,080
trying to find a place to live that

4709
02:40:48,080 --> 02:40:49,560
works for their circumstances and can't

4710
02:40:49,560 --> 02:40:50,640
find it because the housing's not

4711
02:40:50,640 --> 02:40:52,640
available, or the people who decide to

4712
02:40:52,640 --> 02:40:54,280
live in Payson because that's the only

4713
02:40:54,280 --> 02:40:55,400
place they can get affordable rent, and

4714
02:40:55,400 --> 02:40:57,080
then they drive in every single day and,

4715
02:40:57,080 --> 02:40:58,480
you know, create traffic for us. And

4716
02:40:58,480 --> 02:41:00,240
like, those things to me are like I

4717
02:41:00,240 --> 02:41:03,240
think there's this big like kind of um

4718
02:41:03,240 --> 02:41:04,840
it's just a very complex interconnected

4719
02:41:04,840 --> 02:41:06,240
problem and so I think

4720
02:41:06,240 --> 02:41:07,800
in general I like us to push us to try

4721
02:41:07,800 --> 02:41:10,320
to get more data to understand some of

4722
02:41:10,320 --> 02:41:12,680
these things about like actual

4723
02:41:12,680 --> 02:41:15,840
car- cars actual parking the cost the

4724
02:41:15,840 --> 02:41:18,600
sort of the passing on of the supply

4725
02:41:18,600 --> 02:41:20,800
demand effects cuz I think what Council

4726
02:41:20,800 --> 02:41:23,120
Mckay said is true is like when you have

4727
02:41:23,120 --> 02:41:25,200
a very like a if you have like an

4728
02:41:25,200 --> 02:41:27,840
undersupplied market you basically can

4729
02:41:27,840 --> 02:41:30,080
just charge whatever the mark- market

4730
02:41:30,080 --> 02:41:31,360
has like if you have way more marginal

4731
02:41:31,360 --> 02:41:33,040
buyers than you have supply like the

4732
02:41:33,040 --> 02:41:34,480
marginal buyers always going to just

4733
02:41:34,480 --> 02:41:36,320
take what the market wants but if you

4734
02:41:36,320 --> 02:41:38,120
have a market closer to equilibrium

4735
02:41:38,120 --> 02:41:39,880
that's when you actually start to see

4736
02:41:39,880 --> 02:41:42,120
declining prices with the marginal

4737
02:41:42,120 --> 02:41:44,600
supply. So I just like

4738
02:41:44,600 --> 02:41:47,160
I I feel like anyway that's my econ 101

4739
02:41:47,160 --> 02:41:49,280
talking but I'd like us to understand

4740
02:41:49,280 --> 02:41:51,960
the the the numbers behind a lot of

4741
02:41:51,960 --> 02:41:53,960
these kind of anecdotes and theories so

4742
02:41:53,960 --> 02:41:55,160
that's a general push but we should have

4743
02:41:55,160 --> 02:41:57,080
a conversation about how we do that.

4744
02:41:57,080 --> 02:41:58,400
>> I'm going to push back a little bit and

4745
02:41:58,400 --> 02:42:00,080
say

4746
02:42:00,080 --> 02:42:02,000
we don't just house UVU kids we also

4747
02:42:02,000 --> 02:42:04,440
house UVU kids and I think we need to be

4748
02:42:04,440 --> 02:42:06,120
very very conscious of that.

4749
02:42:06,120 --> 02:42:07,520
>> Totally I agree with you.

4750
02:42:07,520 --> 02:42:10,120
>> And we cannot be the only city that

4751
02:42:10,120 --> 02:42:11,560
houses them.

4752
02:42:11,560 --> 02:42:13,160
Other cities also have to take on that

4753
02:42:13,160 --> 02:42:14,840
responsibility.

4754
02:42:14,840 --> 02:42:17,200
And we also have to understand a lot of

4755
02:42:17,200 --> 02:42:18,880
those UVU kids

4756
02:42:18,880 --> 02:42:20,720
you know even my kids attend UVU and

4757
02:42:20,720 --> 02:42:22,720
they have a lot of online classes and

4758
02:42:22,720 --> 02:42:24,920
they do do UVX because I'm close enough

4759
02:42:24,920 --> 02:42:26,880
to that.

4760
02:42:26,880 --> 02:42:28,680
But a lot of them just don't and a lot

4761
02:42:28,680 --> 02:42:30,720
of them they don't work along UVX line

4762
02:42:30,720 --> 02:42:32,200
they don't work where the train's going

4763
02:42:32,200 --> 02:42:33,920
to take them.

4764
02:42:33,920 --> 02:42:36,000
Cars are coming and we're going to have

4765
02:42:36,000 --> 02:42:38,120
kids if they don't live in Payson then

4766
02:42:38,120 --> 02:42:39,560
they're going to go to UVU and they're

4767
02:42:39,560 --> 02:42:40,680
still going to have a car and they're

4768
02:42:40,680 --> 02:42:42,120
still going to create a traffic problem

4769
02:42:42,120 --> 02:42:44,160
for us. So I don't I don't think that's

4770
02:42:44,160 --> 02:42:45,040
the

4771
02:42:45,040 --> 02:42:47,680
end all solution is my point.

4772
02:42:47,680 --> 02:42:48,800
>> No.

4773
02:42:48,800 --> 02:42:50,760
My question would be and how bad do you

4774
02:42:50,760 --> 02:42:52,440
want data?

4775
02:42:52,440 --> 02:42:53,640
Because we could talk more about it.

4776
02:42:53,640 --> 02:42:55,840
You're right much of this is anecdotal

4777
02:42:55,840 --> 02:42:58,080
because we have such a little data

4778
02:42:58,080 --> 02:42:59,360
about.

4779
02:42:59,360 --> 02:42:59,480
>> Yeah,

4780
02:42:59,480 --> 02:43:00,720
>> well like for example, we did that we

4781
02:43:00,720 --> 02:43:01,960
said we're going to do the housing stock

4782
02:43:01,960 --> 02:43:03,520
audit. We haven't we should follow up on

4783
02:43:03,520 --> 02:43:04,840
that. Like that's a place where we said

4784
02:43:04,840 --> 02:43:06,000
it was a priority and I think we're kind

4785
02:43:06,000 --> 02:43:07,760
of stuck on that. So we should

4786
02:43:07,760 --> 02:43:10,000
make a note to say to council office

4787
02:43:10,000 --> 02:43:12,160
when we get the new director, Justin,

4788
02:43:12,160 --> 02:43:13,280
that we really would like to start

4789
02:43:13,280 --> 02:43:14,720
seeing that data and then that I think

4790
02:43:14,720 --> 02:43:16,560
that lays a bad baseline.

4791
02:43:16,560 --> 02:43:17,480
Um

4792
02:43:17,480 --> 02:43:18,600
But yeah.

4793
02:43:18,600 --> 02:43:19,960
That's that's one thing that comes to

4794
02:43:19,960 --> 02:43:20,320
mind.

4795
02:43:20,320 --> 02:43:21,960
>> Yeah, so I think we're going to have to

4796
02:43:21,960 --> 02:43:23,360
we're going to invest in the data.

4797
02:43:23,360 --> 02:43:24,000
>> Yeah.

4798
02:43:24,000 --> 02:43:25,840
>> Uh and until then

4799
02:43:25,840 --> 02:43:27,760
we got what we know.

4800
02:43:27,760 --> 02:43:28,720
Yeah.

4801
02:43:28,720 --> 02:43:34,680
So again, I would go ahead and make a motion.

4802
02:43:34,680 --> 02:43:35,920
Um

4803
02:43:35,920 --> 02:43:37,200
I would like to see us come back to

4804
02:43:37,200 --> 02:43:39,360
this. I think this is a discussion worth

4805
02:43:39,360 --> 02:43:40,400
having.

4806
02:43:40,400 --> 02:43:41,920
Uh and if we could bring some data and

4807
02:43:41,920 --> 02:43:43,240
some opportunity zones to it and

4808
02:43:43,240 --> 02:43:44,920
actually talk to some developers, I

4809
02:43:44,920 --> 02:43:46,720
think that could be really helpful.

4810
02:43:46,720 --> 02:43:47,800
Um

4811
02:43:47,800 --> 02:43:50,600
I don't want to move forward with this ordinance.

4812
02:43:50,600 --> 02:43:53,120
So I would make a motion that we repeal

4813
02:43:53,120 --> 02:43:56,680
point is it point 50 and point 60?

4814
02:43:56,680 --> 02:43:59,000
Um did I get that right?

4815
02:43:59,000 --> 02:44:00,800
>> Is it is it 14

4816
02:44:00,800 --> 02:44:04,080
>> 14 14.37.050

4817
02:44:04,080 --> 02:44:06,520
and 14.37.060?

4818
02:44:06,520 --> 02:44:07,520
>> Well, 0

4819
02:44:07,520 --> 02:44:10,160
060 is all of the parking requirements

4820
02:44:10,160 --> 02:44:12,040
for the entire city.

4821
02:44:12,040 --> 02:44:13,080
>> Well, let's not let's not let's not do

4822
02:44:13,080 --> 02:44:14,880
that.

4823
02:44:14,880 --> 02:44:17,000
>> Are you saying you don't want to move

4824
02:44:17,000 --> 02:44:19,280
this forward the changes?

4825
02:44:19,280 --> 02:44:21,120
You're not saying repeal a current code.

4826
02:44:21,120 --> 02:44:22,920
>> Sorry sorry if this is late at night.

4827
02:44:22,920 --> 02:44:26,390
>> Um I hear you. I understand what you're

4828
02:44:26,400 --> 02:44:31,480
» Yeah. What I what I suggest is that we I don't want to move forward with this.

4829
02:44:31,480 --> 02:44:32,760
That's important. I would like to I

4830
02:44:32,760 --> 02:44:34,640
would like to take a fresh look at this

4831
02:44:34,640 --> 02:44:36,760
in terms of a very surgical area. I'd

4832
02:44:36,760 --> 02:44:38,240
like to consider whether opportunity

4833
02:44:38,240 --> 02:44:40,080
zones might be a part of that and do

4834
02:44:40,080 --> 02:44:40,520
that.

4835
02:44:40,520 --> 02:44:41,640
>> Do you want to

4836
02:44:41,640 --> 02:44:43,480
We have developers coming tonight. Well,

4837
02:44:43,480 --> 02:44:44,720
Bill has asked developers. Do you want

4838
02:44:44,720 --> 02:44:45,400
to hear them?

4839
02:44:45,400 --> 02:44:46,080
>> Oh, absolutely.

4840
02:44:46,080 --> 02:44:47,200
>> Okay, then you don't have to say

4841
02:44:47,200 --> 02:44:48,080
anything tonight.

4842
02:44:48,080 --> 02:44:50,960
>> I I think this is a the right discussion

4843
02:44:50,960 --> 02:44:52,200
to be having.

4844
02:44:52,200 --> 02:44:55,160
And right now, again, I've got a lot of

4845
02:44:55,160 --> 02:44:57,720
people in my ear saying this is the kind

4846
02:44:57,720 --> 02:44:59,280
of problems creating. I appreciate that

4847
02:44:59,280 --> 02:45:00,520
you're saying no, that's actually not a

4848
02:45:00,520 --> 02:45:02,480
problem in that in that neighborhood.

4849
02:45:02,480 --> 02:45:04,640
I think it deserves some discussion and

4850
02:45:04,640 --> 02:45:06,520
some creative solutions. I don't think

4851
02:45:06,520 --> 02:45:07,960
this is it,

4852
02:45:07,960 --> 02:45:09,920
but I'll bet we could come up with one.

4853
02:45:09,920 --> 02:45:11,440
I and I love the idea of trying

4854
02:45:11,440 --> 02:45:13,960
something very surgical. Love the idea

4855
02:45:13,960 --> 02:45:16,960
of hearing from the developers. Um I I

4856
02:45:16,960 --> 02:45:19,240
just don't see moving forward with this.

4857
02:45:19,240 --> 02:45:20,080
>> So for tonight

4858
02:45:20,080 --> 02:45:21,720
>> I'm I'm happy to come back with the data

4859
02:45:21,720 --> 02:45:23,800
that we have compiled over the the last

4860
02:45:23,800 --> 02:45:25,880
several years. Hopefully the developers

4861
02:45:25,880 --> 02:45:27,880
come with some data and some anecdotal

4862
02:45:27,880 --> 02:45:30,440
information. Um we can come back with

4863
02:45:30,440 --> 02:45:32,600
that tonight and for the night meeting.

4864
02:45:32,600 --> 02:45:33,160
>> Yeah, we can

4865
02:45:33,160 --> 02:45:34,280
>> I know I've taken a lot of

4866
02:45:34,280 --> 02:45:36,280
>> Yeah, no, we definitely talk. We want to

4867
02:45:36,280 --> 02:45:37,360
talk to the developers.

4868
02:45:37,360 --> 02:45:38,160
>> Absolutely.

4869
02:45:38,160 --> 02:45:40,200
>> another point of doing this surgically

4870
02:45:40,200 --> 02:45:41,800
is that we don't want the reductions

4871
02:45:41,800 --> 02:45:42,720
going to the planning commission

4872
02:45:42,720 --> 02:45:46,440
anymore. So we want to So I would put in

4873
02:45:46,440 --> 02:45:47,600
with

4874
02:45:47,600 --> 02:45:49,400
Craig's just going to do substitute

4875
02:45:49,400 --> 02:45:50,000
motion.

4876
02:45:50,000 --> 02:45:50,720
>> Yeah.

4877
02:45:50,720 --> 02:45:52,280
>> That um

4878
02:45:52,280 --> 02:45:54,680
we repeal the

4879
02:45:54,680 --> 02:45:58,240
Can you go back a thing, please, Kevin?

4880
02:45:58,240 --> 02:45:59,840
>> More.

4881
02:45:59,840 --> 02:46:00,640
Keep going.

4882
02:46:00,640 --> 02:46:03,200
>> We just repeal 1437050

4883
02:46:03,200 --> 02:46:06,480
and that we do not adopt these new the new

4884
02:46:06,480 --> 02:46:08,120
>> Well, I there's there's subsections

4885
02:46:08,120 --> 02:46:11,240
through there. Um so

4886
02:46:11,240 --> 02:46:13,040
not maybe not the whole

4887
02:46:13,040 --> 02:46:13,800
>> When you

4888
02:46:13,800 --> 02:46:16,640
>> Yeah, so we want to delete the reduction

4889
02:46:16,640 --> 02:46:17,440
and the off-street parking.

4890
02:46:17,440 --> 02:46:18,680
>> Yeah, I was going to say

4891
02:46:18,680 --> 02:46:19,920
clarifying just the same thing that

4892
02:46:19,920 --> 02:46:22,680
Aaron's asked him to The motion is not

4893
02:46:22,680 --> 02:46:24,440
just not go forward with the proposed

4894
02:46:24,440 --> 02:46:26,760
changes, but to actually proactively

4895
02:46:26,760 --> 02:46:28,240
repeal

4896
02:46:28,240 --> 02:46:31,360
the reduction program that is in code

4897
02:46:31,360 --> 02:46:33,520
right now. There is no reduction in

4898
02:46:33,520 --> 02:46:35,040
>> we can surgically look at it and do

4899
02:46:35,040 --> 02:46:36,880
special programs for these ones that

4900
02:46:36,880 --> 02:46:38,520
were in question of and that we want to

4901
02:46:38,520 --> 02:46:43,350
get developed.

4902
02:46:43,360 --> 02:46:46,080
Yeah. Heavens.

4903
02:46:46,080 --> 02:46:47,400
I sorry, I'm like pulling up the whole

4904
02:46:47,400 --> 02:46:49,280
code to read it so I can see what it is

4905
02:46:49,280 --> 02:46:52,200
that you're trying to change.

4906
02:46:52,200 --> 02:46:52,840
>> Well, that's only

4907
02:46:52,840 --> 02:46:54,120
>> No, there's dot dot dot.

4908
02:46:54,120 --> 02:46:55,640
>> We've got it just got missing from that.

4909
02:46:55,640 --> 02:46:56,640
That's what they're

4910
02:46:56,640 --> 02:46:57,960
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

4911
02:46:57,960 --> 02:46:59,920
>> The The part of The part of this that

4912
02:46:59,920 --> 02:47:02,760
I'm I think that I think that that makes

4913
02:47:02,760 --> 02:47:04,360
sense. The part of this that I I'd like

4914
02:47:04,360 --> 02:47:05,760
to understand the council's view a

4915
02:47:05,760 --> 02:47:07,560
little bit better on is

4916
02:47:07,560 --> 02:47:09,360
the

4917
02:47:09,360 --> 02:47:12,080
parking in a unused lots item.

4918
02:47:12,080 --> 02:47:13,800
>> I wanted I wanted to discuss that one

4919
02:47:13,800 --> 02:47:16,200
out. I think we need to I I'm I'd love

4920
02:47:16,200 --> 02:47:16,840
to do that.

4921
02:47:16,840 --> 02:47:18,040
>> figure that out. Absolutely.

4922
02:47:18,040 --> 02:47:18,480
>> We want to

4923
02:47:18,480 --> 02:47:20,040
>> But this is going to take some time.

4924
02:47:20,040 --> 02:47:20,480
It's not going to

4925
02:47:20,480 --> 02:47:21,800
>> Yeah, yeah, I I get what you're saying.

4926
02:47:21,800 --> 02:47:22,840
>> Because I think

4927
02:47:22,840 --> 02:47:24,320
>> So we like that idea, but we just not

4928
02:47:24,320 --> 02:47:25,840
fully comfortable with the

4929
02:47:25,840 --> 02:47:26,640
implementation.

4930
02:47:26,640 --> 02:47:27,160
>> Okay.

4931
02:47:27,160 --> 02:47:29,400
>> I I I think it's the leasing thing and

4932
02:47:29,400 --> 02:47:31,560
then not having it permanent thing that

4933
02:47:31,560 --> 02:47:32,680
is

4934
02:47:32,680 --> 02:47:34,400
what I'm gathering. Thanks.

4935
02:47:34,400 --> 02:47:36,160
>> Yeah, it's like a vote right now on the

4936
02:47:36,160 --> 02:47:38,720
owning thing. If they owned the two lots

4937
02:47:38,720 --> 02:47:39,360
Right? And maybe

4938
02:47:39,360 --> 02:47:40,640
>> As long as it was deed restricted.

4939
02:47:40,640 --> 02:47:43,200
>> And maybe 15 years is enough.

4940
02:47:43,200 --> 02:47:44,600
We I I I don't know.

4941
02:47:44,600 --> 02:47:45,920
Um [clears throat]

4942
02:47:45,920 --> 02:47:50,040
So um I think uh we're headed the I

4943
02:47:50,040 --> 02:47:51,840
think we're headed the right direction.

4944
02:47:51,840 --> 02:47:54,280
Um so well, I guess you I guess you had

4945
02:47:54,280 --> 02:47:55,240
the substitute motion.

4946
02:47:55,240 --> 02:47:56,080
>> Only one a second.

4947
02:47:56,080 --> 02:47:58,240
>> And then can I can I just ask a simple

4948
02:47:58,240 --> 02:47:59,280
like an

4949
02:47:59,280 --> 02:48:01,320
So if we do remove this and the sort of

4950
02:48:01,320 --> 02:48:04,480
the current what Brian said happens how

4951
02:48:04,480 --> 02:48:06,240
would for example the Park Plaza

4952
02:48:06,240 --> 02:48:08,040
developer if they want to come in and

4953
02:48:08,040 --> 02:48:10,040
put something before the

4954
02:48:10,040 --> 02:48:12,480
council, how would that process work?

4955
02:48:12,480 --> 02:48:13,960
>> So

4956
02:48:13,960 --> 02:48:15,200
I'm going to say the final word on it.

4957
02:48:15,200 --> 02:48:17,830
>> Um

4958
02:48:17,840 --> 02:48:20,360
Yeah, it it I'm trying to think through

4959
02:48:20,360 --> 02:48:23,320
your your options cuz again, this kind

4960
02:48:23,320 --> 02:48:24,720
of decision we and we've talked about

4961
02:48:24,720 --> 02:48:26,680
this before. This kind of decision

4962
02:48:26,680 --> 02:48:29,800
Well, let me back up. And now that Kevin's got this on the screen,

4963
02:48:29,800 --> 02:48:31,240
I think I want to talk about this first.

4964
02:48:31,240 --> 02:48:32,320
So

4965
02:48:32,320 --> 02:48:36,880
this section governs um

4966
02:48:36,880 --> 02:48:38,960
re- reduction in Austria This this is

4967
02:48:38,960 --> 02:48:41,480
what's already in code already. Nothing

4968
02:48:41,480 --> 02:48:42,960
to do with what's proposed.

4969
02:48:42,960 --> 02:48:43,800
>> Yep.

4970
02:48:43,800 --> 02:48:45,400
>> And it allows the planning commission to

4971
02:48:45,400 --> 02:48:48,040
do parking reductions if there's a

4972
02:48:48,040 --> 02:48:50,800
transportation demand demand management

4973
02:48:50,800 --> 02:48:52,920
program and a parking count study. And

4974
02:48:52,920 --> 02:48:54,760
then there's a bunch of sections

4975
02:48:54,760 --> 02:48:56,960
down below here that talk about what

4976
02:48:56,960 --> 02:48:59,880
needs to be in that study and and what

4977
02:48:59,880 --> 02:49:02,120
the criteria for them

4978
02:49:02,120 --> 02:49:05,240
uh planning commission granting one of

4979
02:49:05,240 --> 02:49:07,160
those reductions are. The The proposal

4980
02:49:07,160 --> 02:49:09,040
that you saw

4981
02:49:09,040 --> 02:49:11,080
doesn't show you any of that. It's the

4982
02:49:11,080 --> 02:49:13,400
proposal to add a new section to that

4983
02:49:13,400 --> 02:49:18,440
creating an automatic reduction near the ITOD, right? So,

4984
02:49:18,440 --> 02:49:21,400
the motion is to do two things. It's to

4985
02:49:21,400 --> 02:49:25,480
not just not vote on the on the TOD,

4986
02:49:25,480 --> 02:49:27,720
it's to delete the entire program that

4987
02:49:27,720 --> 02:49:29,160
exists right now for the planning

4988
02:49:29,160 --> 02:49:30,440
commission.

4989
02:49:30,440 --> 02:49:33,720
So, if you delete it entirely, then

4990
02:49:33,720 --> 02:49:36,440
there is no administrative methods for

4991
02:49:36,440 --> 02:49:38,280
parking reductions at all. There's no

4992
02:49:38,280 --> 02:49:40,520
the administ- the administrative side

4993
02:49:40,520 --> 02:49:42,040
just can't do parking reductions.

4994
02:49:42,040 --> 02:49:43,880
They're just in code and they're flat

4995
02:49:43,880 --> 02:49:45,040
numbers.

4996
02:49:45,040 --> 02:49:47,920
So, the methods for

4997
02:49:47,920 --> 02:49:50,240
someone coming in and proposing to have

4998
02:49:50,240 --> 02:49:52,720
a parking reduction would be

4999
02:49:52,720 --> 02:49:54,840
somebody comes in with an ordinance text

5000
02:49:54,840 --> 02:49:57,800
amendment proposing to somehow change

5001
02:49:57,800 --> 02:49:59,520
the code so that

5002
02:49:59,520 --> 02:50:01,320
but then that ordinance text amendment

5003
02:50:01,320 --> 02:50:03,560
is going to apply to everybody else

5004
02:50:03,560 --> 02:50:05,160
that's likely situated, so it's going to

5005
02:50:05,160 --> 02:50:06,560
be broad brush.

5006
02:50:06,560 --> 02:50:08,560
Uh you could

5007
02:50:08,560 --> 02:50:10,640
do

5008
02:50:10,640 --> 02:50:13,960
parking overlay zones where you create

5009
02:50:13,960 --> 02:50:16,920
certain overlays that have certain

5010
02:50:16,920 --> 02:50:18,720
Uh now this is a long-term solution.

5011
02:50:18,720 --> 02:50:20,600
>> take this concept and make it an overlay

5012
02:50:20,600 --> 02:50:22,120
zone?

5013
02:50:22,120 --> 02:50:24,040
>> Uh

5014
02:50:24,040 --> 02:50:25,880
yes. I mean, that you probably don't

5015
02:50:25,880 --> 02:50:26,880
even

5016
02:50:26,880 --> 02:50:27,880
it

5017
02:50:27,880 --> 02:50:31,200
I would think my personal opinion is

5018
02:50:31,200 --> 02:50:33,760
this concept is probably overblown for

5019
02:50:33,760 --> 02:50:39,160
an overlay zone because this is delegation of authority from the

5020
02:50:39,160 --> 02:50:42,240
council to the administration by giving

5021
02:50:42,240 --> 02:50:45,000
them a whole bunch of criteria, right?

5022
02:50:45,000 --> 02:50:45,800
>> Right.

5023
02:50:45,800 --> 02:50:47,680
>> Application of an overlay zone doesn't

5024
02:50:47,680 --> 02:50:49,600
need that many criteria because it's you

5025
02:50:49,600 --> 02:50:51,280
deciding whether you're going to apply

5026
02:50:51,280 --> 02:50:52,880
it or not, right? So, what you really

5027
02:50:52,880 --> 02:50:55,640
end up doing is you say, "What are the

5028
02:50:55,640 --> 02:50:57,600
parking ratios that we would be willing

5029
02:50:57,600 --> 02:50:59,360
to consider?" And you create a different

5030
02:50:59,360 --> 02:51:01,560
overlay for each

5031
02:51:01,560 --> 02:51:04,080
ratio, and then people come in and ask

5032
02:51:04,080 --> 02:51:05,800
for the overlay that you want. They want

5033
02:51:05,800 --> 02:51:07,160
you to decide whether to do it or not.

5034
02:51:07,160 --> 02:51:08,520
Again, I'm not advocating for that idea.

5035
02:51:08,520 --> 02:51:09,000
I'm trying to

5036
02:51:09,000 --> 02:51:09,840
>> You're just saying that's an option.

5037
02:51:09,840 --> 02:51:12,000
>> I'm trying to brainstorm ideas.

5038
02:51:12,000 --> 02:51:13,600
The other

5039
02:51:13,600 --> 02:51:15,760
option would be through development

5040
02:51:15,760 --> 02:51:18,480
agreements because you can, under state

5041
02:51:18,480 --> 02:51:19,800
code,

5042
02:51:19,800 --> 02:51:22,920
grant exceptions to code to zoning code

5043
02:51:22,920 --> 02:51:25,120
through a development agreement if the

5044
02:51:25,120 --> 02:51:27,000
development agreement is reviewed by the

5045
02:51:27,000 --> 02:51:28,640
planning commission before it comes to

5046
02:51:28,640 --> 02:51:30,240
the council.

5047
02:51:30,240 --> 02:51:32,960
Um we have not historically done that

5048
02:51:32,960 --> 02:51:34,520
very often.

5049
02:51:34,520 --> 02:51:35,960
Uh right. I can only think of once,

5050
02:51:35,960 --> 02:51:37,320
although we've got a couple coming up

5051
02:51:37,320 --> 02:51:38,360
where we're

5052
02:51:38,360 --> 02:51:40,000
>> We've been using them a lot lately, and

5053
02:51:40,000 --> 02:51:43,120
they seem to be legally tighter and

5054
02:51:43,120 --> 02:51:43,440
>> Yeah.

5055
02:51:43,440 --> 02:51:44,240
>> more enforceable.

5056
02:51:44,240 --> 02:51:45,480
>> That's what fixed the park plaza

5057
02:51:45,480 --> 02:51:47,040
situation since that's got to be a zone

5058
02:51:47,040 --> 02:51:48,440
change.

5059
02:51:48,440 --> 02:51:52,440
>> The downside to that particular

5060
02:51:52,440 --> 02:51:56,680
uh methodology is development agreements

5061
02:51:56,680 --> 02:51:57,760
end

5062
02:51:57,760 --> 02:51:59,160
when the

5063
02:51:59,160 --> 02:51:59,720
>> Hold the overlay.

5064
02:51:59,720 --> 02:52:01,160
>> when the certificate of occupancy is

5065
02:52:01,160 --> 02:52:04,120
issued. So, they only govern how the

5066
02:52:04,120 --> 02:52:05,880
property is constructed.

5067
02:52:05,880 --> 02:52:06,920
>> Not how it's

5068
02:52:06,920 --> 02:52:08,480
>> do anything after how it's managed

5069
02:52:08,480 --> 02:52:10,400
afterwards unless we put something into

5070
02:52:10,400 --> 02:52:11,760
the development agreement that somehow

5071
02:52:11,760 --> 02:52:15,600
creates a deed restriction or CCNRs or I

5072
02:52:15,600 --> 02:52:16,520
mean,

5073
02:52:16,520 --> 02:52:18,760
it gets complicated, but there's

5074
02:52:18,760 --> 02:52:21,440
those are the ideas that occur to me

5075
02:52:21,440 --> 02:52:22,160
about how it

5076
02:52:22,160 --> 02:52:24,440
>> So, Brian, and the current code has

5077
02:52:24,440 --> 02:52:27,240
these TDM agreements. Do we know how

5078
02:52:27,240 --> 02:52:29,280
many properties have TDM agreements?

5079
02:52:29,280 --> 02:52:31,120
Because if we strip this whole thing, we

5080
02:52:31,120 --> 02:52:33,040
lose the ability to enforce on

5081
02:52:33,040 --> 02:52:35,680
violations of those.

5082
02:52:35,680 --> 02:52:38,000
>> Yeah, that's an That's actually an

5083
02:52:38,000 --> 02:52:41,120
interesting question.

5084
02:52:41,120 --> 02:52:42,800
I would have to I would have I would

5085
02:52:42,800 --> 02:52:44,400
want to actually take some time and read

5086
02:52:44,400 --> 02:52:46,080
through this again cuz I think that you

5087
02:52:46,080 --> 02:52:49,280
raise a valid concern that

5088
02:52:49,280 --> 02:52:52,680
the idea of deleting it is so that new

5089
02:52:52,680 --> 02:52:54,680
ones can't be entered into, but it might

5090
02:52:54,680 --> 02:52:56,400
have an unintended consequence of

5091
02:52:56,400 --> 02:52:59,360
undermining existing ones.

5092
02:52:59,360 --> 02:53:03,480
>> Cuz this subsection two F says that, you

5093
02:53:03,480 --> 02:53:05,400
know, where one of these agreement

5094
02:53:05,400 --> 02:53:07,720
exists, if the owner fails to abide by

5095
02:53:07,720 --> 02:53:08,640
it,

5096
02:53:08,640 --> 02:53:10,320
then

5097
02:53:10,320 --> 02:53:13,680
it's you you can get them on it, and the

5098
02:53:13,680 --> 02:53:14,760
they no longer get to be part of the

5099
02:53:14,760 --> 02:53:15,880
program, they no longer have the

5100
02:53:15,880 --> 02:53:17,880
reduction, and they have to meet the

5101
02:53:17,880 --> 02:53:19,680
parking requirements that were otherwise

5102
02:53:19,680 --> 02:53:21,760
required at the time their project was

5103
02:53:21,760 --> 02:53:24,320
approved. So, they would have to

5104
02:53:24,320 --> 02:53:26,720
increase their parking, but we lose the

5105
02:53:26,720 --> 02:53:29,480
ability to enforce that if we delete

5106
02:53:29,480 --> 02:53:30,880
this entire section of code.

5107
02:53:30,880 --> 02:53:33,200
>> so how do How if we did this? Uh

5108
02:53:33,200 --> 02:53:35,600
this is We've got a lot more discussion

5109
02:53:35,600 --> 02:53:36,560
on this.

5110
02:53:36,560 --> 02:53:38,400
Here Here's the the thing I think that

5111
02:53:38,400 --> 02:53:39,920
we could all agree on. We want to figure

5112
02:53:39,920 --> 02:53:42,280
something out. Love the idea of maybe

5113
02:53:42,280 --> 02:53:43,840
it's a pro zone approach, and maybe we

5114
02:53:43,840 --> 02:53:46,520
take a we take a a specific section and

5115
02:53:46,520 --> 02:53:48,960
say that's going to be our pro zone, and

5116
02:53:48,960 --> 02:53:50,840
we figure out a way to make that work in

5117
02:53:50,840 --> 02:53:54,080
a way that we don't risk uh it's not

5118
02:53:54,080 --> 02:53:57,120
high risk at all, and it's very focused.

5119
02:53:57,120 --> 02:53:58,800
Um let's work with some developers and

5120
02:53:58,800 --> 02:54:01,920
see if we can get something done.

5121
02:54:01,920 --> 02:54:04,320
And now I'm I'm not sure that

5122
02:54:04,320 --> 02:54:06,920
I'm not sure what the motion is there

5123
02:54:06,920 --> 02:54:07,800
um

5124
02:54:07,800 --> 02:54:09,920
in terms of what we do with the current

5125
02:54:09,920 --> 02:54:11,760
thing that's being proposed here.

5126
02:54:11,760 --> 02:54:13,360
Well, um

5127
02:54:13,360 --> 02:54:15,400
let me before I go on, let me just point

5128
02:54:15,400 --> 02:54:18,160
out that I think Bill had a comment, so

5129
02:54:18,160 --> 02:54:18,800
I don't want to lose that.

5130
02:54:18,800 --> 02:54:20,440
>> Also, Travis says he has a comment.

5131
02:54:20,440 --> 02:54:22,080
>> want to I don't want to lose that before

5132
02:54:22,080 --> 02:54:23,160
we finish.

5133
02:54:23,160 --> 02:54:23,800
Uh

5134
02:54:23,800 --> 02:54:25,480
if

5135
02:54:25,480 --> 02:54:26,640
based on

5136
02:54:26,640 --> 02:54:27,440
I

5137
02:54:27,440 --> 02:54:31,360
My My counsel would be even if you want

5138
02:54:31,360 --> 02:54:33,080
to get rid of the current planning

5139
02:54:33,080 --> 02:54:34,240
commission

5140
02:54:34,240 --> 02:54:35,080
uh

5141
02:54:35,080 --> 02:54:36,800
methodologies,

5142
02:54:36,800 --> 02:54:39,120
I would still not act immediately. Give

5143
02:54:39,120 --> 02:54:40,840
us some time to think about how we

5144
02:54:40,840 --> 02:54:42,680
address the question that Rachel just

5145
02:54:42,680 --> 02:54:43,080
raised.

5146
02:54:43,080 --> 02:54:43,680
>> Yeah.

5147
02:54:43,680 --> 02:54:45,360
>> And so in that instance, I think

5148
02:54:45,360 --> 02:54:48,200
probably the right solution if if if

5149
02:54:48,200 --> 02:54:51,040
your intent is we don't want to do this,

5150
02:54:51,040 --> 02:54:52,840
but we want to do something, I think the

5151
02:54:52,840 --> 02:54:54,120
motion is really simple. It's just a

5152
02:54:54,120 --> 02:54:56,920
motion to table it indefinitely. And

5153
02:54:56,920 --> 02:54:58,640
then you work on other solutions until

5154
02:54:58,640 --> 02:55:00,160
something's ready to come back.

5155
02:55:00,160 --> 02:55:02,440
>> I'm going to table it for tonight

5156
02:55:02,440 --> 02:55:03,480
because we want to hear from the

5157
02:55:03,480 --> 02:55:03,960
developers.

5158
02:55:03,960 --> 02:55:05,800
>> Exactly. So there may be no motion

5159
02:55:05,800 --> 02:55:07,440
necessary at this point in time. I was

5160
02:55:07,440 --> 02:55:08,360
just going to say that. I wouldn't make

5161
02:55:08,360 --> 02:55:09,920
that motion till after the evening

5162
02:55:09,920 --> 02:55:11,280
meeting. Let's take check.

5163
02:55:11,280 --> 02:55:13,360
>> Uh let me also Oh, wait. Let me just say

5164
02:55:13,360 --> 02:55:15,200
that. Substantially the opportunities on

5165
02:55:15,200 --> 02:55:17,080
question, Cody Hill says there's will be

5166
02:55:17,080 --> 02:55:21,760
effective January 1st, 2027.

5167
02:55:21,760 --> 02:55:24,560
>> When do we find out?

5168
02:55:24,560 --> 02:55:25,400
>> That's a good question.

5169
02:55:25,400 --> 02:55:27,360
>> That was before that. That's any of the

5170
02:55:27,360 --> 02:55:28,200
above there.

5171
02:55:28,200 --> 02:55:30,800
>> Let Let me also just interject that part

5172
02:55:30,800 --> 02:55:33,000
of the making sure that it comes to the

5173
02:55:33,000 --> 02:55:35,560
council is we need to learn about what

5174
02:55:35,560 --> 02:55:37,840
works on this. I'm not suggesting that's

5175
02:55:37,840 --> 02:55:40,000
a long-term strategy, but it would be

5176
02:55:40,000 --> 02:55:41,840
really helpful to actually be involved

5177
02:55:41,840 --> 02:55:44,480
in So if we do have that,

5178
02:55:44,480 --> 02:55:46,080
how does it work? How do we enforce it?

5179
02:55:46,080 --> 02:55:48,640
What Yeah.

5180
02:55:48,640 --> 02:55:51,110
Anyway.

5181
02:55:51,120 --> 02:55:52,760
And then we have Travis.

5182
02:55:52,760 --> 02:55:53,600
>> Travis, do you have something else you

5183
02:55:53,600 --> 02:55:56,080
want to say?

5184
02:55:56,080 --> 02:55:58,040
>> No, cuz I'd say I do.

5185
02:55:58,040 --> 02:55:59,320
Sorry.

5186
02:55:59,320 --> 02:56:00,120
>> No.

5187
02:56:00,120 --> 02:56:00,800
>> I don't

5188
02:56:00,800 --> 02:56:02,320
>> Maybe I missed Maybe I missed it

5189
02:56:02,320 --> 02:56:04,440
earlier. Sorry, my bad.

5190
02:56:04,440 --> 02:56:06,000
>> Now, Travis, are you going to be on

5191
02:56:06,000 --> 02:56:07,760
tonight?

5192
02:56:07,760 --> 02:56:08,840
>> Yes.

5193
02:56:08,840 --> 02:56:11,520
>> Okay. Awesome.

5194
02:56:11,520 --> 02:56:13,760
All right. So

5195
02:56:13,760 --> 02:56:14,120
>> Okay.

5196
02:56:14,120 --> 02:56:15,480
>> Given that discussion, do you just want

5197
02:56:15,480 --> 02:56:17,480
to withdraw the motion and just

5198
02:56:17,480 --> 02:56:19,480
>> Yeah, I'll I'll withdraw I'll withdraw

5199
02:56:19,480 --> 02:56:21,200
the motion. Cuz again, I think I think

5200
02:56:21,200 --> 02:56:23,160
there's energy about let's get let's

5201
02:56:23,160 --> 02:56:25,080
find something let's get it done. Let's

5202
02:56:25,080 --> 02:56:26,320
do it in a way that we all feel

5203
02:56:26,320 --> 02:56:27,600
comfortable with the risk involved.

5204
02:56:27,600 --> 02:56:30,470
Yeah.

5205
02:56:30,480 --> 02:56:31,760
» Right.

5206
02:56:31,760 --> 02:56:33,720
Well, we went way over.

5207
02:56:33,720 --> 02:56:39,030
>> Sorry. Sorry. Thank you.

5208
02:56:39,040 --> 02:56:43,470
» Who didn't say one word?

5209
02:56:43,480 --> 02:56:45,560
Okay, an ordinance rezoning property at

5210
02:56:45,560 --> 02:56:48,640
5450 North Canyon Road

5211
02:56:48,640 --> 02:56:52,760
from A15CH and A11CPD

5212
02:56:52,760 --> 02:56:54,120
and

5213
02:56:54,120 --> 02:56:55,640
zones in the North Temple neighborhood.

5214
02:56:55,640 --> 02:56:57,720
And Jessica, we can be Let's just see if

5215
02:56:57,720 --> 02:56:59,560
we've seen this a lot.

5216
02:56:59,560 --> 02:57:03,430
So, any questions for this one, guys?

5217
02:57:03,440 --> 02:57:04,600
All right.

5218
02:57:04,600 --> 02:57:07,000
Thanks, Jessica.

5219
02:57:07,000 --> 02:57:08,720
>> I I should work.

5220
02:57:08,720 --> 02:57:11,240
>> Okay, that's the best one.

5221
02:57:11,240 --> 02:57:13,520
All right, do you guys need a break?

5222
02:57:13,520 --> 02:57:14,040
>> No.

5223
02:57:14,040 --> 02:57:16,480
>> Okay, let's just finish this one item. A

5224
02:57:16,480 --> 02:57:19,120
discussion on picking up Standard,

5225
02:57:19,120 --> 02:57:20,720
you've been very patient. Picking up

5226
02:57:20,720 --> 02:57:22,680
required URS member contributions on

5227
02:57:22,680 --> 02:57:25,360
behalf of Tier 2 public safety officers

5228
02:57:25,360 --> 02:57:28,000
or firefighters.

5229
02:57:28,000 --> 02:57:30,080
Presented by Daniel Softly. And just for

5230
02:57:30,080 --> 02:57:31,800
staff in the future, anytime it's a

5231
02:57:31,800 --> 02:57:34,440
parking discussion, give more than 15

5232
02:57:34,440 --> 02:57:36,040
minutes.

5233
02:57:36,040 --> 02:57:37,628
Always.

5234
02:57:37,628 --> 02:57:39,200
>> [laughter]

5235
02:57:39,200 --> 02:57:40,280
>> Yes.

5236
02:57:40,280 --> 02:57:40,560
Uh

5237
02:57:40,560 --> 02:57:42,040
>> Yeah, we've seen this before, too. Any

5238
02:57:42,040 --> 02:57:43,680
questions on this one? Anything you want

5239
02:57:43,680 --> 02:57:44,480
to tell us?

5240
02:57:44,480 --> 02:57:47,240
>> Yeah, um uh just that the we have the

5241
02:57:47,240 --> 02:57:49,920
last time we did this was in 2024.

5242
02:57:49,920 --> 02:57:53,000
Uh the rates have gone up by 1.25%. The

5243
02:57:53,000 --> 02:57:55,400
mayor has signed the document. Uh it's

5244
02:57:55,400 --> 02:57:58,600
included in the budget. Um and so, what

5245
02:57:58,600 --> 02:58:01,200
uh the state requires is just a

5246
02:58:01,200 --> 02:58:03,720
some sort of formal statement um from

5247
02:58:03,720 --> 02:58:05,000
the governing bodies.

5248
02:58:05,000 --> 02:58:06,440
>> Oh, like a vote?

5249
02:58:06,440 --> 02:58:08,120
>> Yeah, so So, the different This one is

5250
02:58:08,120 --> 02:58:09,600
not actually intended for the evening

5251
02:58:09,600 --> 02:58:11,480
meeting. This is on for you to make a

5252
02:58:11,480 --> 02:58:14,840
motion supporting doing the pickup, and

5253
02:58:14,840 --> 02:58:16,640
then we will give URS the minutes

5254
02:58:16,640 --> 02:58:18,080
showing that the motion passed.

5255
02:58:18,080 --> 02:58:20,400
>> Okay, got it. This is easy. All right.

5256
02:58:20,400 --> 02:58:21,360
Um

5257
02:58:21,360 --> 02:58:22,040
>> All right.

5258
02:58:22,040 --> 02:58:23,480
I would make a motion that we support

5259
02:58:23,480 --> 02:58:23,960
it.

5260
02:58:23,960 --> 02:58:25,360
>> I second that.

5261
02:58:25,360 --> 02:58:26,840
>> All right, great. Any discussion on the

5262
02:58:26,840 --> 02:58:28,640
motion?

5263
02:58:28,640 --> 02:58:29,880
All right, we'll do a vote on the

5264
02:58:29,880 --> 02:58:31,360
motion. Council Garrett.

5265
02:58:31,360 --> 02:58:31,880
>> Yes.

5266
02:58:31,880 --> 02:58:33,760
>> Council Mckay, yes. Council Christensen.

5267
02:58:33,760 --> 02:58:34,120
>> Yes.

5268
02:58:34,120 --> 02:58:35,000
>> Council Whitlock.

5269
02:58:35,000 --> 02:58:35,520
>> Yes.

5270
02:58:35,520 --> 02:58:36,400
>> Council Bogden.

5271
02:58:36,400 --> 02:58:36,800
>> Yes.

5272
02:58:36,800 --> 02:58:38,160
>> Council Koban.

5273
02:58:38,160 --> 02:58:39,040
>> Yes.

5274
02:58:39,040 --> 02:58:40,200
>> And Council Wiffle.

5275
02:58:40,200 --> 02:58:41,640
>> Yes.

5276
02:58:41,640 --> 02:58:44,440
>> I I love So that passed a 7-0. I love

5277
02:58:44,440 --> 02:58:46,720
that the last item was 25 minutes and we

5278
02:58:46,720 --> 02:58:48,360
did it in like 30 seconds.

5279
02:58:48,360 --> 02:58:48,600
>> Yeah.

5280
02:58:48,600 --> 02:58:49,400
>> Okay, thanks Daniel.

5281
02:58:49,400 --> 02:58:51,644
>> Scheduling everything after parliament.

5282
02:58:51,644 --> 02:58:52,720
>> [laughter]

5283
02:58:52,720 --> 02:58:53,720
>> Thank you.

5284
02:58:53,720 --> 02:58:55,440
>> Thanks.

5285
02:58:55,440 --> 02:58:57,480
All right, so we have a closed session,

5286
02:58:57,480 --> 02:58:59,080
Brian.

5287
02:58:59,080 --> 02:59:02,000
>> Yes, there are two items for the special

5288
02:59:02,000 --> 02:59:03,440
closed session.

5289
02:59:03,440 --> 02:59:04,840
One regarding character and competence

5290
02:59:04,840 --> 02:59:07,560
of individuals and another one regarding

5291
02:59:07,560 --> 02:59:09,760
potential sale of property. Both of

5292
02:59:09,760 --> 02:59:11,200
those are approved reasons, so it would

5293
02:59:11,200 --> 02:59:12,520
be appropriate to move to close the

5294
02:59:12,520 --> 02:59:13,600
meeting.

5295
02:59:13,600 --> 02:59:14,840
>> All right, I'll make a motion for closed

5296
02:59:14,840 --> 02:59:15,240
meeting.

5297
02:59:15,240 --> 02:59:16,760
>> I move that we close the meeting.

5298
02:59:16,760 --> 02:59:18,680
>> Thank you. Second from Mayor

5299
02:59:18,680 --> 02:59:20,400
Christensen.

5300
02:59:20,400 --> 02:59:23,520
We will do a vote on the motion. Council

5301
02:59:23,520 --> 02:59:25,480
Mckay, yes. Council Christensen.

5302
02:59:25,480 --> 02:59:25,960
>> Yes.

5303
02:59:25,960 --> 02:59:26,800
>> Council Whitlock.

5304
02:59:26,800 --> 02:59:27,240
>> Yes.

5305
02:59:27,240 --> 02:59:28,000
>> Council Bogden.

5306
02:59:28,000 --> 02:59:28,440
>> Yes.

5307
02:59:28,440 --> 02:59:29,560
>> Council Koban.

5308
02:59:29,560 --> 02:59:30,480
>> Yes.

5309
02:59:30,480 --> 02:59:31,720
>> Council Wiffle.

5310
02:59:31,720 --> 02:59:33,120
>> Yes. And Council Garrett.

5311
02:59:33,120 --> 02:59:33,640
>> Yes.

5312
02:59:33,640 --> 02:59:35,680
>> That's 7-0. We will move to a closed

5313
02:59:35,680 --> 02:59:37,680
motion. We will now recess the Provo

5314
02:59:37,680 --> 02:59:39,120
Municipal Council work meeting and

5315
02:59:39,120 --> 02:59:41,080
reconvene in a pre-function room for the

5316
02:59:41,080 --> 02:59:42,880
closed meeting.

5317
02:59:42,880 --> 02:59:45,360
>> Record