1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,319 Good morning. It's August 11th, 2 00:00:04,319 --> 00:00:07,600 2026 at 11:30 a.m. and we'll begin our 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,990 council work session. 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,830 » Oh, excuse me. 5 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,920 » So, we'll first we'll start with a roll 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,080 call. Councelor Whitlock. 7 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:23,519 >> Councelor Whitlock. 8 00:00:23,519 --> 00:00:24,560 >> Gary Garrett, 9 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,160 >> Becky Bogdan, 10 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:32,549 >> and online 11 00:00:32,559 --> 00:00:34,880 Katrice, can you confirm that you're 12 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:47,510 with us? 13 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,079 » What time did Rachel say she would join? 14 00:00:52,079 --> 00:00:53,600 >> Rachel, 15 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,039 >> she said she was going to She told me 16 00:00:55,039 --> 00:00:57,039 yesterday she was going to join. 17 00:00:57,039 --> 00:00:58,559 She said she was Travis. She 18 00:00:58,559 --> 00:00:59,440 >> Yeah. 19 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:00,399 >> Did you see that, too? 20 00:01:00,399 --> 00:01:02,719 >> I did. Is Chavis 21 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:05,519 >> Can you text her and see? 22 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:08,479 Yeah, I texted her last night 23 00:01:08,479 --> 00:01:13,590 and I asked her. Um, [clears throat] 24 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,789 what time should she come on? 25 00:01:18,799 --> 00:01:22,320 » I'll text Krice and see 26 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:29,670 where she is. Okay. 27 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:31,119 and then Craig who is 28 00:01:31,119 --> 00:01:32,560 >> sorry I'm here. 29 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,119 >> Okay, thanks Katrice and then find out 30 00:01:35,119 --> 00:01:37,600 from Rachel 31 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,680 maybe while you're at it just shoot um 32 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,520 Craig a call and let him know not a call 33 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:44,640 >> let him know that we're starting 34 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,000 >> Craig is not going to be on right now. 35 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,159 He's not going to be on till later. 36 00:01:48,159 --> 00:01:50,560 >> Do you know about what time? 37 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,320 >> Around twoish. 38 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,720 >> Okay. All right. Thanks, Katrice. All 39 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:55,439 right. 40 00:01:55,439 --> 00:01:58,000 >> Yeah, he's going to be on around 41 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:58,640 >> Yeah. two 42 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,119 >> like one o'clock. 43 00:02:01,119 --> 00:02:02,560 >> Okay. One one o'clock. 44 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,640 >> One. 45 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,280 >> Okay. 46 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,080 Um [clears throat] 47 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,360 the first agenda item is to approve 48 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,680 uh previous meeting minutes. They're 49 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,319 listed on our agenda. July 8th council 50 00:02:18,319 --> 00:02:22,160 meeting. July June 9th council meeting. 51 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,560 June 17th, I'm sorry, let me start over. 52 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,400 J July 8th, 2025 council meeting. June 53 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,599 9th, 2026 council meeting. June 17th, 54 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:36,080 2026 council meeting. June 14th, 26 work 55 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,360 meeting. July 14th, 26 council meeting. 56 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,040 July 22nd, 26 work meeting. Are there 57 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,080 any objections or [clears throat] 58 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:47,920 requested changes for these meeting 59 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:52,470 minutes? 60 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,239 All right, 61 00:02:54,239 --> 00:02:57,120 then we'll um 62 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:58,640 declare the minutes approved by 63 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:02,309 unanimous consent. 64 00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:06,080 So our first business item is regarding 65 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,239 a request from Taylor Terrace, the 66 00:03:08,239 --> 00:03:10,480 Taylor Terrace Homeowners Association 67 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,480 for city acceptance, infrastructure 68 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,879 upgrades, and financial assistance for 69 00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:17,519 its private water system. This will be 70 00:03:17,519 --> 00:03:21,040 presented by Lane Pierce, our water 71 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,040 resources engineer. And 72 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:26,720 hi, 73 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,360 I'm Lane. Um, I work for Gordon for 74 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,720 public works. Taylor Terrace is a small 75 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,440 HOA up by the the Rock Canyon Temple 76 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,040 just uh east of it. Um, and I guess I 77 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,879 can click through these. I'll be very 78 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:42,879 brief because we have the Shades HOA 79 00:03:42,879 --> 00:03:44,959 here. They would like to be they had a 80 00:03:44,959 --> 00:03:49,519 water break in their private main that enters their small culde-sac and 81 00:03:49,519 --> 00:03:51,519 they would like to become part of the 82 00:03:51,519 --> 00:03:53,920 city infrastructure. This is the the 83 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,959 code that we have in Provo that allows a 84 00:03:56,959 --> 00:03:58,799 private entity to come and be part of 85 00:03:58,799 --> 00:04:01,439 the public infrastructure. 86 00:04:01,439 --> 00:04:05,280 Um they went got a contractor to fix the 87 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:06,959 in order to become a part of the public 88 00:04:06,959 --> 00:04:08,879 infrastructure they have to meet our 89 00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:11,200 code meet our standards our water 90 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:12,959 standards. in order to meet our water 91 00:04:12,959 --> 00:04:15,040 standards. They went out, got a 92 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:16,720 professional bid on what it would cost. 93 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,880 This is approximately what it would cost 94 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,479 become um part of our system if you guys 95 00:04:22,479 --> 00:04:24,720 approve it and 96 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,400 up to our standards, our 97 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,919 pipe standards. I thought I had one 98 00:04:29,919 --> 00:04:31,600 more. 99 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,919 I have one more. Yeah, there we go. And 100 00:04:33,919 --> 00:04:35,440 this is kind of a drawing of how we 101 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,199 would do it. This is their like I said, 102 00:04:37,199 --> 00:04:38,560 it's kind of a little culde-sac or 103 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,240 whatever you want to call little 104 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,960 community. And this is this is the line 105 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:44,800 that had a break in it. And what we 106 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,360 would do the new fix would be to install 107 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,280 the meters here and then the lateral 108 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:53,600 would go to each uh each home. And Mark 109 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,440 Doyle from the HO is here to talk a 110 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:56,560 little bit more and give them a little 111 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,400 more in-depth about the situation up 112 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,160 there. 113 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,270 >> Thanks. 114 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:05,680 » Thank you. Excuse me. I'm nursing uh 115 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,800 ankle surgery recovery, so I'm a little 116 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,919 slow getting up here. Um, thanks for the 117 00:05:11,919 --> 00:05:16,320 time. My name is Mark Doyle. I've um we 118 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,160 rotate responsibilities in our small 119 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,600 HOA, so I've been serving as the 120 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,039 president for the past couple years, 121 00:05:23,039 --> 00:05:26,800 which um we lived in Provo for 20 years. 122 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,280 Uh raised our five kids here. My office 123 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:31,759 is just on center street here, so we're 124 00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:34,800 big fans. Um, we have 22 homes in the 125 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,759 HOA. Uh, this affects seven of them. 126 00:05:37,759 --> 00:05:40,000 Somehow when it was developed in the 127 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,199 '7s, um, we nor the city are quite clear 128 00:05:43,199 --> 00:05:44,400 on what happened, but there's 129 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,400 essentially an 8 in man, like a city man 130 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:49,840 that goes about halfway into this 131 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:52,160 culde-sac and from there the individual 132 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:53,600 water lines like each of us would have 133 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,400 on our house um, come off that. that was 134 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,360 not really known to the next set of and 135 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,600 by the way I don't live in uh in one of 136 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,360 these seven ours is elsewhere um that 137 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,840 was not known until infrastructure 138 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:09,759 started to fail which is that the 139 00:06:09,759 --> 00:06:13,600 individual line but also the assessment 140 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,440 is that the 8 in main also has is like 141 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,800 ready to fail at any given time which I 142 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,880 think Gordon Lane is that's like the 143 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:24,639 size that's the standard size that runs 144 00:06:24,639 --> 00:06:26,454 throughout the city right So, that's 145 00:06:26,454 --> 00:06:31,440 [snorts] a a big concern. And we have um 146 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,440 of the 22 147 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,720 owners, about a third of those are fixed 148 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,000 income um widows, just to give you like 149 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,120 a profile. I don't know if that's 150 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,520 interesting or not. And we've got school 151 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,240 teachers and a county deputy sheriff. 152 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:47,600 So, there's just a wide mix of 153 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,080 individuals there. We've um feel like 154 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:51,759 we're a pretty healthy HOA and we've 155 00:06:51,759 --> 00:06:54,639 done you know we try to do a good job in 156 00:06:54,639 --> 00:06:56,800 maintaining things that look well for 157 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,000 the city from a you know exterior and 158 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,319 grounds and everything but this uh this 159 00:07:02,319 --> 00:07:04,000 part has caught us off guard and there 160 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:05,759 have been a lot of questions of how this 161 00:07:05,759 --> 00:07:08,000 kind of would have gotten approved in 162 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,520 the first place. I think there's some 163 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:10,800 broader concerns from what we understand 164 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,960 as well. the meters actually are right 165 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,280 up at the houses and instead of on the 166 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,680 street and I think a concern with that 167 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,440 is like statewide and even for city 168 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,960 zoning having culinary water on the city 169 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,720 side of the meter but on private like 170 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,880 under private ownership is is an issue 171 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,479 as well. I don't I don't um say that I 172 00:07:32,479 --> 00:07:34,000 understand the intricacies of that but 173 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,759 that's a concern as well. So, we're 174 00:07:35,759 --> 00:07:38,960 looking to turn the uh ownership of the 175 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,039 line over to the city. And in this case, 176 00:07:43,039 --> 00:07:44,160 there could have been an option where we 177 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:45,599 just replace this huge line running into 178 00:07:45,599 --> 00:07:47,520 the culac, but that doesn't make as much 179 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:48,880 sense. And Lane and Gordon have been 180 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,759 great to to propose, you know, solutions 181 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:54,400 if this were to happen to just have 182 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,160 water lines go out to the city main like 183 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,680 it is in the rest of the city and even 184 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,120 in the rest of our development. So 185 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,879 that's the um that's the request that 186 00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:06,319 we're m making both from a culinary 187 00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:08,720 water standard standpoint and a safety 188 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,039 standpoint and honestly just to bring 189 00:08:11,039 --> 00:08:12,720 that part of the development back in 190 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,080 line with with city code. Um including 191 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,800 the the new the newer one that Lane 192 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,039 referenced at the beginning. So those 193 00:08:21,039 --> 00:08:22,800 are I guess a couple of my talking 194 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,280 points. I've never done this before. So 195 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,400 >> great. So happy to field questions and 196 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:28,960 all the 197 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,759 >> So Mark, just to clarify then only these 198 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:35,200 seven homes were connected to the uh to 199 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,519 had their the private water system. The 200 00:08:37,519 --> 00:08:39,919 other homes west of these and the ones 201 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:42,000 up around the corner are already part of 202 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,440 the city's water system. 203 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:44,800 >> Meaning they already have like the 204 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,560 individual line that would go from this 205 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:49,200 house to the meter to the street just 206 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,839 probably like wherever you live. 207 00:08:51,839 --> 00:08:53,279 >> So it's just this little culdeac. It's 208 00:08:53,279 --> 00:08:54,880 just this little culde-sac and we have 209 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:56,000 actually, you know, as you know, there's 210 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,920 another little culde-sac up there. Mhm. 211 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,080 >> Um I think I think this was the first 212 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,001 one that was developed and maybe 213 00:09:03,001 --> 00:09:05,839 [clears throat] I don't know like it was so long ago and we don't have 214 00:09:05,839 --> 00:09:07,760 records of why they decided to do that 215 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:08,399 or 216 00:09:08,399 --> 00:09:10,240 >> so there are what 20 homes 217 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,320 >> 22 okay 218 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,080 >> and the sorry the one other quick thing 219 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,000 the port the financial portion so on 220 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,399 average any of us including me if we 221 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:19,920 were going to replace or fix the water 222 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:24,399 line that's going to be a 7 to $9,000 223 00:09:24,399 --> 00:09:28,399 replacement and so we are as an HOA 224 00:09:28,399 --> 00:09:31,839 we're saying yeah for sure each owner is 225 00:09:31,839 --> 00:09:35,040 respons like is naturally responsible 226 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,160 for that as anyone would be um and 227 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,800 actually the the figures lane uh I think 228 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,959 we're looking for 229 00:09:42,959 --> 00:09:47,920 um up to $100,000 because actually the HOA or the owner's portion of that 230 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,000 would be a little more than the figures 231 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,080 I know the specifics are important to to 232 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:53,760 this group so we'll probably tighten 233 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,120 those up a little bit but it'll be less 234 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,959 actually than was on this Could you go 235 00:09:56,959 --> 00:09:59,120 back to that slide? Um, Kevin, the 236 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,000 financial slide. So, you're saying the 237 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,240 city portion requested would not exceed 238 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:05,279 100,000. 239 00:10:05,279 --> 00:10:06,800 >> Yeah, that's right. Because 240 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,839 >> the HO Yeah. Mhm. 241 00:10:09,839 --> 00:10:10,399 >> Okay. 242 00:10:10,399 --> 00:10:15,120 >> Seven homes about seven or eight. So, we would split that so we know exactly 243 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,600 what it is. But, yeah. 244 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,040 >> So, our code states that you need to 245 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,880 have these 246 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,040 lines up to code before the city will 247 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:26,640 take them over. 248 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,640 Why are you asking the city to do 249 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,760 something outside of code? 250 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,240 >> Um, 251 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,440 Brian, 252 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,440 >> um, so those of you who are here in 2022 253 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:40,880 might remember when we passed this 254 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,399 section of the code. Prior to this 255 00:10:42,399 --> 00:10:44,480 section being passed in 2022, we didn't 256 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,000 even have a methodology for taking over 257 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,360 public ownership of private 258 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,040 infrastructure. [clears throat] But we 259 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,240 would frequently get um requests and as 260 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,360 you might remember from that 261 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,040 conversation, one of the concerns when 262 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,760 we passed the section of code is that we 263 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,640 didn't want to the city did not want to 264 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,760 kind of make it easier for developers to 265 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,399 reduce their own cost by doing private 266 00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:09,839 infrastructure that wasn't to city 267 00:11:09,839 --> 00:11:11,920 standards, but then forced it off on the 268 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,200 city later. Right? And so which I'm not 269 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,399 suggesting that that's the case because 270 00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:18,640 this is as he's described this is 271 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,200 different than maybe when we usually see 272 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,120 this but but that was the concern. And 273 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,839 so the way the code this section of the 274 00:11:25,839 --> 00:11:29,360 code is written is it says if you want 275 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:30,800 if you have private infrastructure you 276 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,120 want to dedicate to the public and you 277 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,120 come in city is going to decide what 278 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,560 needs to be done to it. We're going to 279 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:38,720 tell you what needs to be done to it. If 280 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,200 you then decide it to do it entirely by 281 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,120 yourself, it is purely an administrative 282 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,720 process. Those kinds of questions would 283 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,720 never even come to the council. The 284 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:47,920 administration would just work. But 285 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,560 there is a provision in in this section 286 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:54,000 that says you can instead of paying for 287 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:55,680 yourself, you can come to the council 288 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:57,279 and ask the council for an 289 00:11:57,279 --> 00:12:00,079 appropriation. So, so he's following the 290 00:12:00,079 --> 00:12:02,480 process that is in that is laid out in 291 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,640 the statute. That just makes it the 292 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,720 council's decision now, right? So, your 293 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,040 choices are pay for it yourself or ask 294 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:10,639 for the council to appropriate the 295 00:12:10,639 --> 00:12:11,360 money. 296 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,200 >> Kevin, can you go back one more slide? 297 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,560 >> So, you're asking for the council to 298 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:16,000 appropriate the money, but why won't you 299 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,040 pay for it yourselves? 300 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:18,079 >> I think we're asking the council to 301 00:12:18,079 --> 00:12:20,880 appropriate money for the portion that 302 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,680 um 50 years ago 303 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:27,440 either. The city shouldn't have approved 304 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,519 the the design of this. They essentially 305 00:12:29,519 --> 00:12:32,720 put a city water man into private 306 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,079 property to connect these individual 307 00:12:34,079 --> 00:12:35,839 lines on. None of us here have any idea 308 00:12:35,839 --> 00:12:37,600 why that happened. There's no record for 309 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:38,399 why that happened 310 00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:40,800 >> because it would have been in 1975. 311 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,720 >> Yeah, 75. I think that was when it was 312 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,399 started. Right around the mid70s. 313 00:12:44,399 --> 00:12:48,079 >> And so we're saying um we're surprised. 314 00:12:48,079 --> 00:12:50,480 Maybe shouldn't have been. You're 315 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,480 surprised. It's real money. Like no 316 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,240 one's debating that the $100,000 is a 317 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,320 ton of money could go to a lot of really 318 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,519 important worthy causes in the city. But 319 00:12:59,519 --> 00:13:01,040 we're saying, can we make this a shared 320 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,279 cost? Can the homeowners individually 321 00:13:03,279 --> 00:13:05,200 take on the portion of the cost that any 322 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,920 of us in the city would be on the hook 323 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,800 for to repair? But would the city in as 324 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,760 part of this process um essentially 325 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,160 repair or replace or change the layout 326 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,720 of what essentially is like city level 327 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,040 infrastructure that happens to be midway 328 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:26,320 through the culde-sac but appreciate the question. Yeah, that's 329 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,160 how I that's how I position it. 330 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,560 >> Councelor Whitlock. So Mark, I'm 331 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:34,079 wondering has the HOA 332 00:13:34,079 --> 00:13:36,079 uh what have they carried in reserves 333 00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:38,399 for water infrastructure and what have 334 00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:40,240 they like what have you done in the past 335 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,040 to deal with this? 336 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,279 >> Well, we've not other than sprinkler 337 00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:46,800 system which is a common property which 338 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,040 we carry reserves for. Um we've not 339 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,959 known that there was this issue of a 340 00:13:52,959 --> 00:13:55,120 joint city level line coming into the 341 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,120 culde-sac. The assumption was until we 342 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,279 there was a break we had to excavate 343 00:13:59,279 --> 00:14:04,079 that lines ran out to the city main. So, we've had reserves for a lot of 344 00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:06,480 things. We reserved and repaved the 345 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,480 entire asphalt. We've painted, you know, 346 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,240 we've kept things up and this was not 347 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,240 something that we've kept reserves for 348 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,399 in the past. So, unfortunately is 349 00:14:16,399 --> 00:14:18,480 >> Yeah. 350 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:19,680 >> Sorry. I was going to just ask a 351 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,760 followup is like if if the council 352 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,839 funded a smaller share saying like say 353 00:14:23,839 --> 00:14:26,000 like the main and the tap to the city 354 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,320 standard uh could the HO finance 355 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:29,839 remainder like is there a number less 356 00:14:29,839 --> 00:14:31,680 than 116 like where did you come up with 357 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,519 the 116? 358 00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:38,639 the the number that we came to was 359 00:14:38,639 --> 00:14:41,440 for in a in a normal like if again if 360 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,360 any of us like you Jeff or if I have to 361 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,000 replace our water line to the city 362 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,560 unless it's something really strange 363 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,680 that's going to cost 7 to$10,000 364 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,519 and so we had the contractor um who I 365 00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:57,600 think does a number of city projects 366 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,720 already kind of gave us a split of this 367 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:01,920 would be this is kind of how I 368 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:03,519 distribute the individual portion of the 369 00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:06,079 cost of this. Um, and that's the 370 00:15:06,079 --> 00:15:08,480 actually probably be more like $50,000. 371 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,519 And this would be if we have to replace 372 00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:15,279 the this 8 in city level main to the 373 00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:16,800 street that's going to [snorts] be about 374 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,519 $9 to $100,000. So that's really how we 375 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:23,360 came up with that number. Um, sure. And 376 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,079 totally you could if the city was like 377 00:15:26,079 --> 00:15:28,880 let's just say above zero. If you're 378 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,720 like, we would cover this amount, then 379 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,360 the HOA, we would have like to figure 380 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,000 out how to put an assessment to the 22 381 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,160 owners, which totally understood. That's 382 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:47,199 something that HOAs do. So that's a mechanism, but I but just the [clears throat] nature of the like 383 00:15:47,199 --> 00:15:49,759 the bizarre nature of how this got 384 00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:53,279 installed and approved 50 years ago, 385 00:15:53,279 --> 00:15:55,279 we like to think that there's like a 386 00:15:55,279 --> 00:15:57,279 shared opportunity for the city and the 387 00:15:57,279 --> 00:15:59,680 HOA to say there are kind of portions of 388 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,920 this that each of us could tackle and 389 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,600 could we figure out how to do that? So 390 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,399 >> Krice, I have a question. So Gordon, 391 00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:11,519 this you're up. This is a water line 392 00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:14,320 that is going to a culde-sac. Correct. 393 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:15,759 >> Right. You you want to go back to the 394 00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:16,720 map for the drawing. 395 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:18,959 >> So is this even a city asset because a 396 00:16:18,959 --> 00:16:20,639 lot of times you're I mean that's all 397 00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:22,000 private, right? 398 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:28,000 >> So the blue is the existing system and that system's private as it goes 399 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,320 through the culde-sac. So the way that 400 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,519 line is set up is you can see those 401 00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:36,480 laterals going to each of the homes and 402 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,440 at the very end there's a circle almost 403 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,920 where that's where the leak and they 404 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:43,759 can't really repair it because the pipe 405 00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:46,880 is so badly decayed that everybody else 406 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,279 will be out of power. So it's out of 407 00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:51,331 water power just walked in. So 408 00:16:51,331 --> 00:16:53,920 [laughter] that just threw me off. 409 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,000 >> Such impressive. 410 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,800 You're okay. That's our new direct. So, the whole line needs to be replaced. 411 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,759 So, the valve for the city is at by the 412 00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:06,079 driveway in the park strip. So, if we 413 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:08,480 turn off the valve, everybody's out of 414 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,079 water, all seven homes. So, we've 415 00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:11,919 allowed the water to keep going and the 416 00:17:11,919 --> 00:17:16,319 leak has continued. And so, 417 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:17,760 did I answer any of your question or 418 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,039 just made a math answer? 419 00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:20,880 >> I think you kind of made up your own 420 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:25,199 answer, but okay. So 421 00:17:25,199 --> 00:17:27,520 this is the section that needs to be 422 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:28,720 prepared. 423 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:29,760 >> Correct. 424 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,480 >> This this is a city street. This is a 425 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:33,360 private street. 426 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:34,640 >> Yes. 427 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,039 >> So this would be a city asset then 428 00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:39,520 because this is not a city street, 429 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,520 right? This is not going to anywhere 430 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:42,480 else but 431 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,840 >> just to those. So, so, so if we replace 432 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,760 that pipe, we could own that pipe, but 433 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,679 we'd have to have the HOA provide an 434 00:17:49,679 --> 00:17:51,600 easement for us so that we could go in 435 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,400 there and maintain it. So, that that was 436 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,240 what the initial bid was for was to 437 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,679 replace that pipe. Since talking to the 438 00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:02,640 HOA, we think there may be a less 439 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,360 expensive than just replacing that pipe 440 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:07,679 and coming off of it. The less expensive 441 00:18:07,679 --> 00:18:11,760 route would be to put individual meters 442 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,760 on in the park strip. You can see we 443 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,160 have seven meters laid out and then run 444 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,679 individual uh labels to each home. So 445 00:18:19,679 --> 00:18:21,840 that may be less costly than the numbers 446 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,080 we're showing you, but we have not had 447 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,640 that a bid for that yet. 448 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,559 >> But but all in all, like my house, I 449 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:32,799 have to service from wherever it comes 450 00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:33,840 in at the street. 451 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,559 >> Yeah. to my home, right? 452 00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:37,120 >> Yeah. 453 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:41,039 >> So, to me, when I'm looking at this, 454 00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:42,799 their city thing is right there at the 455 00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:44,640 edge of the street like mine would be 456 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,880 and then you're going across maybe a big 457 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,000 long driveway or a big long community 458 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,480 shared space that's not city space to 459 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,240 get your water infrastructure into your 460 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,000 house. I to me that is a private not a 461 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,360 public asset. 462 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:03,200 >> Right. So, that's correct. That's 463 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,039 totally true. It's like a private asset 464 00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:07,280 right now. I mean, the city 465 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,200 >> one one of the I don't know if this is a 466 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:10,640 challenge, Gordon Lee, you have to keep 467 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,960 me honest about this, but one of the 468 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,640 challenges right now, again, however, 469 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,799 the city approved it. The meters at the 470 00:19:16,799 --> 00:19:18,559 house. So, you've got this conflict or 471 00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:20,640 you've got culinary water that 472 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,039 technically is a city and a state 473 00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:25,760 responsibility that is on private 474 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,280 property up to the house. Whereas the 475 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,919 meters really how they should be like 476 00:19:29,919 --> 00:19:32,400 with your where you live and I live the 477 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:33,919 meter should be out of the street. So 478 00:19:33,919 --> 00:19:36,000 that this side of the meter culinary 479 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,840 water is the homeowner's responsibility. 480 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,000 This side's the city. Right now we've 481 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,039 got city responsibility for culinary 482 00:19:43,039 --> 00:19:45,360 water. 483 00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:47,440 >> So So let me try to explain what I think 484 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,880 he's saying. I'm gonna walk through the 485 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:49,200 map. 486 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,480 >> Take this with you because I have two 487 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:51,600 customers only. 488 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,520 >> Yeah. 489 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,919 >> Thank you. So if you can see this map 490 00:19:57,919 --> 00:19:59,679 today, this would not be legal to 491 00:19:59,679 --> 00:20:02,160 approve. The reason being is you now 492 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,559 have a water system that services 493 00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:07,120 multiple entities. So technically they'd 494 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:08,960 have to set up a water company that went 495 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,880 out and tested this water that did all 496 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,559 the state requirements, do all those 497 00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:16,400 things. And you you recall with u valley 498 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,160 the same kind of thing. And we have this 499 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,799 action in a lot of places in the city. 500 00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:23,600 So, this was legal back in the day, but 501 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,960 it's not something that the state the 502 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,440 state frowns on this kind of thing. It's 503 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:30,960 not 504 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,919 something we could legally approve. So, 505 00:20:33,919 --> 00:20:35,679 this is where every one of the physical 506 00:20:35,679 --> 00:20:40,320 meters are on this private line here. 507 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:41,919 That answer, 508 00:20:41,919 --> 00:20:43,679 >> but the city shut off is out at the 509 00:20:43,679 --> 00:20:44,240 street, right? 510 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,080 >> This is where we have a bow to shut off 511 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:46,960 to their system. 512 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,559 >> Not the meters though. The meters are by 513 00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:50,320 the houses, 514 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,720 >> but they're still in a private property. 515 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,720 >> Yeah. All all private private 516 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,000 infrastructure, private gold sack or 517 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,120 that is this is how that was determined 518 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:02,320 back in the [clears throat] day. 519 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,400 >> But Quell Valley was the same. Did we 520 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,320 pay for Qual or did Quail Valley pay for 521 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:07,039 themselves? 522 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:10,559 >> Um, they paid for themselves. I don't 523 00:21:10,559 --> 00:21:12,400 believe we appropriated any money to 524 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:13,360 them. 525 00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:17,760 >> I thought I thought we did unless we I 526 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,520 know that Bill was because they had I 527 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:20,720 mean that was a lot of infrastructure 528 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,000 and they had a lot of 529 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,919 >> there was something we did there. I I 530 00:21:23,919 --> 00:21:25,200 would have to 531 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,720 >> I think we either appropriated some 532 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,240 money or there were certain requirements 533 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,120 that we ended up not making them do but 534 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:32,984 I don't think we paid our crews 535 00:21:32,984 --> 00:21:34,000 [clears throat] might have done some 536 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:34,240 work. 537 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,000 >> I think we did some I think we did in 538 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,679 kind 539 00:21:37,679 --> 00:21:39,039 replacing all the meters. 540 00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:40,159 >> Yeah. 541 00:21:40,159 --> 00:21:41,679 >> Some stuff like that. So there were some 542 00:21:41,679 --> 00:21:44,400 things we did do that help facilitate, 543 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:45,679 but that I think was 544 00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:47,919 >> and they have like 150 homes, something 545 00:21:47,919 --> 00:21:48,240 like that. 546 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,919 >> It was a lot more homes, so it was a lot 547 00:21:49,919 --> 00:21:55,200 bigger sub development. So anyway, this 548 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,080 So what they're looking for is this 549 00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,760 looks like the design that we end up 550 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,480 doing something similar to this so that 551 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,400 this would reflect what's in all the 552 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,799 other 553 00:22:06,799 --> 00:22:08,000 um [clears throat] parts of this 554 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,679 development and what's standard for the 555 00:22:09,679 --> 00:22:13,200 city. It's just difficult for property 556 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,440 owners to have 557 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,600 um main [clears throat] lines in their 558 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:18,960 development that they're maintained. 559 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,480 That's not something we would do today. 560 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,799 Thank you, Gordon. We have a couple of 561 00:22:24,799 --> 00:22:27,440 comments online. Um before we get to 562 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,200 those, let me acknowledge that Rachel 563 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,760 Whipple has joined us online as well and 564 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,000 Travis Hoben in person and we welcome 565 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,280 the mayor also. Uh so, Katrice, let's go 566 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,950 to you first and then Rachel. 567 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,200 My hand wasn't up. 568 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,789 >> Okay, Rachel. 569 00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:50,559 » All right. Thank you. And I apologize 570 00:22:50,559 --> 00:22:54,960 for joining late. Um, so I was really 571 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,640 surprised to see this in the packet. Um, 572 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,440 in part because I just replaced my sewer 573 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,960 line and it cost me personally $50,000. 574 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,200 So, I was 575 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,240 first off wondering if I was overcharged 576 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,400 because this seems like a lot less, 577 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,320 although we had to go full out into the 578 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,000 street to do it. But I I really don't 579 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,840 understand 580 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,240 why the city would pay to upgrade or to 581 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,159 fix 582 00:23:26,159 --> 00:23:29,120 this asset that is commonly owned in the 583 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,720 HOA. That's private property. And I 584 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,080 understand that this isn't something 585 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,600 that we would approve. Now, you know, 586 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,799 this was a a problem that was created 587 00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:43,840 under standards at a particular time. 588 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,000 But the fact remains that that line 589 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,520 going through the common property is is 590 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,600 the HOA's responsibility, not the 591 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,029 city's. 592 00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:56,559 » Thank you, Rachel. 593 00:23:56,559 --> 00:23:58,320 >> Is that something up like up for 594 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,559 discussion or or is that for you to kind 595 00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:02,159 of talk amongst yourselves? We we'll 596 00:24:02,159 --> 00:24:03,600 come back to you. Travis has a question, 597 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,200 too. Thank you, Mark. 598 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,520 >> Thanks. And thanks for all the info. Um, 599 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,480 sensitive to the tough situation you 600 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,200 guys are in. I guess Becky is is kind of 601 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,120 what you're saying like, well, why 602 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:17,200 doesn't the city just why don't we just 603 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,440 pay for, you know, up to the sidewalk 604 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,679 basically and then from there on out 605 00:24:21,679 --> 00:24:23,360 that's not our responsibility to pay 606 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:25,120 for. Is that kind of what you're because 607 00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:26,640 that's what everybody else is expected 608 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,480 to do. Is that what you're saying? 609 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,000 >> Well, 610 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,039 yeah. It seems like and even so this is 611 00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:34,960 all private property. It's not in a 612 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,440 public street and so normally you pay 613 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,080 >> like Rachel just said but he pays from 614 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,320 her house to the road basically. 615 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,320 >> I'm pretty sure because mine's newer I 616 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:47,840 have to pay to the meter but the sewer 617 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,120 I'd have to pay for all the way up the 618 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:51,760 street. So if my sewer were to die I'd 619 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,520 have to dig up my yard plus all the way 620 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:54,960 into the street till it hits in the 621 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,240 middle. Is it are they in the middle of 622 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,159 the street? They're about 623 00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:00,640 >> So So is the idea I'm just trying to 624 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:01,919 understand your perspective. What you 625 00:25:01,919 --> 00:25:03,520 would kind of be looking for is like, 626 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:04,799 "All right, well, we'll we'll pay to 627 00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:06,880 have the meters up at the road, but that 628 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,799 line needs to be paid for by the 629 00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:10,240 residents. Is that essentially where 630 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:10,880 you're at?" 631 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,960 >> Well, even even so, yeah, wherever that 632 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,880 meter's at, which we want them to be in 633 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,799 the public right away, is why they're 634 00:25:16,799 --> 00:25:18,240 having them up there instead of in 635 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,919 private space. it when that meter dies, 636 00:25:21,919 --> 00:25:23,760 when that line dies again, it's going to 637 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,679 be responsibility for each one of those 638 00:25:25,679 --> 00:25:27,679 homeowners to pay all the way to the 639 00:25:27,679 --> 00:25:29,039 street. 640 00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:31,279 >> And your perspective, by the way, I 641 00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:32,159 missed your name at the beginning. 642 00:25:32,159 --> 00:25:33,200 >> Oh, sorry, Mark. Do 643 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,960 >> Mark. Okay. Thanks, Mark. Your 644 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,080 perspective is, well, this is kind of a 645 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,320 problem that the city created 50 years 646 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:46,159 ago when they approved this. Um, and so 647 00:25:46,159 --> 00:25:48,159 you guys kind of need to pay more to 648 00:25:48,159 --> 00:25:50,000 help fix it. I I know you're not saying 649 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,360 that. I'm putting words in your mouth. 650 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:52,720 You're being much more tactful than 651 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:53,520 nice, 652 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,120 >> but but kind of that perspective of 653 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:56,720 like, well, this needs to be a shared 654 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,720 cost to fix this issue. 655 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,559 >> I guess where I'm struggling is I'm kind 656 00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:02,720 of I'm kind of getting where the council 657 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,600 members are coming from that like, yeah, 658 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,760 but you guys would have to pay to fix 659 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,080 this regardless. If if the water if the 660 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,919 water meters were up at the road right 661 00:26:11,919 --> 00:26:13,520 now 662 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,679 and you guys needed to fix this issue, 663 00:26:15,679 --> 00:26:17,760 you guys would be paying. So, totally. 664 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,600 the fact that it was built this way 665 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,360 shouldn't really matter. That's so I'm 666 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:22,880 kind of I'm kind of understanding where 667 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,320 the council members are coming from. 668 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,279 >> No, I mean, listen, the I'll say it's 669 00:26:27,279 --> 00:26:29,520 the minority view in my head, but like I 670 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,039 think the questions are like they're 671 00:26:31,039 --> 00:26:34,320 really good questions and um but yes, 672 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,480 our our take and also Rachel on the 673 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,559 phone, first of all, I can't compare 674 00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:42,000 sewer to water and um that's a huge 675 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,240 bill. So, I'm sorry for that. Water I 676 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:45,919 think generally is cheaper, but we're 677 00:26:45,919 --> 00:26:48,240 not actually we are saying homeowners 678 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,799 should pay their portion of running an 679 00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:52,880 individual line just like any of us 680 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,279 would. Um we have this weird situation 681 00:26:55,279 --> 00:26:57,440 where meters that should have been on 682 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:58,960 the street 683 00:26:58,960 --> 00:26:59,760 >> aren't okay. 684 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:00,880 >> We have this weird situation. We've got 685 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:01,440 an 8 in. 686 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,120 >> You're saying the sorry the portion 687 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:04,880 you're proposing that you guys pay is 688 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:05,760 that part? 689 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,039 >> Yes. The part that any of us would pay 690 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:08,880 if we had to replace the water line. 691 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,799 >> Does that change your perspective at 692 00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:11,919 all? Because 693 00:27:11,919 --> 00:27:13,360 >> because if they were installed in 694 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:15,840 today's standards, they still have to. 695 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:16,799 >> He's saying, 696 00:27:16,799 --> 00:27:19,520 >> "Will you take the mic?" Thank you. 697 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,360 >> How do you turn it on? [clears throat] 698 00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:22,000 >> It should be on. 699 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:22,799 >> It's already on. 700 00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:25,679 Can you hear me? 701 00:27:25,679 --> 00:27:27,120 >> Flip that button up. 702 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:28,799 >> Hello. 703 00:27:28,799 --> 00:27:31,279 There we go. Okay. So, he's 704 00:27:31,279 --> 00:27:32,880 saying 705 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,120 that they've installed these meters here 706 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,440 in the 50s or 70s or whenever it was. 707 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:38,720 >> The meters aren't Sorry, the meters 708 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:39,840 aren't even there. They're actually at 709 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,559 the house. Those are like the offshoots 710 00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:44,400 from the main about 711 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,000 >> Gordon's saying the new leaders are 712 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:46,799 going to be here. 713 00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:48,159 >> Yeah. 714 00:27:48,159 --> 00:27:49,279 >> And the new leaders are going to be 715 00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:51,200 here. So even if this was in today's 716 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,520 standards, these guys would still be on 717 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,279 the hook 718 00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:56,320 for all this, 719 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:57,840 >> right? But if I'm understanding Mark 720 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,440 correctly, he's saying we are willing to 721 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,200 pay the portion from here to here. 722 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,360 >> He's willing to pay the portion from 723 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:05,600 like here to here, right? 724 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,679 We're willing to pay the the the portion 725 00:28:09,679 --> 00:28:11,600 the the numbers that you saw there was 726 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,600 when we were going to run oh sorry 727 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,240 >> they're going to run a new 8 inch main 728 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:22,640 to the middle again and do offshoots the amount of 729 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,240 and so we're saying whether it's doing 730 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,080 that or running individual lines there's 731 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,120 an upfront cost that that we're asking 732 00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:31,520 the city to share part of that to kind 733 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,840 of correct or bring to code or bring to 734 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,559 what are culinary ary code that the city 735 00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:38,080 can share and the homeowners do the 736 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,960 rest. And then to your point, you know, 737 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,120 in 30 years when a water individual 738 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,480 water line needs to be replaced, then 739 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,159 the homeowner does that. The city's no 740 00:28:48,159 --> 00:28:50,320 longer like there there's no confusion. 741 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,200 There's no weird setup. There's Yeah. 742 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,399 And I just want I'm not to your point, I 743 00:28:56,399 --> 00:28:57,840 don't know what happened 50 years ago. 744 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,640 Like we're not assigning blame 745 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,960 responsibility city. I have no idea. But 746 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:12,880 it was weird and messy and now there's other problems besides just the location. And I think um you 747 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,960 know from a technicality standpoint, 748 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,360 sure it's there's it's on private 749 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,360 property 750 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,399 as a city, do we do we do all sorts of 751 00:29:22,399 --> 00:29:24,320 projects and improvements that sometimes 752 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,399 benefit fewer people than others? I 753 00:29:26,399 --> 00:29:28,000 think we probably do. Do we want all the 754 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,919 projects to benefit the whole city? 755 00:29:29,919 --> 00:29:32,880 Yeah. the more we can do that, we we 756 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,960 love that. Um, but yeah, but I think I 757 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,399 think there's opportunity sometimes to 758 00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:41,279 say this is a bad design. It's actually 759 00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:44,080 like there's kind of this weird legal 760 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,880 issue with like where culinary water is 761 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,880 and there's an opportunity to to share 762 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,120 the share the fix. So 763 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,679 >> So sorry Gary, if I was fine, we'll go 764 00:29:53,679 --> 00:29:57,440 to Ch. Last one. Um, I guess in my mind, 765 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,080 is there a way for these residents to 766 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,480 just pay for from their house to the 767 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,320 road and then the city's paying for 768 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,240 everything at the road? I mean, to me, 769 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:09,840 that would seem like that's what a 770 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,000 typical resident if water line breaks 771 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,240 between the road and their house, 772 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,559 they're paying that portion. So, in 773 00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:18,960 fairness to these residents, and I I 774 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:19,919 think what we're worried about is 775 00:30:19,919 --> 00:30:21,520 precedent here. We're not we're not 776 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,000 saying we're we're not being sensitive 777 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,760 to this specific plight of the the 778 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,279 plight of these specific residents, but 779 00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:28,960 it's precedent, right? So, if we do it 780 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,720 here, then do we get 10 more calls? 781 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,240 Somebody says, "Well, hey, we got the 782 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,080 same problem. Come and fix ours now." 783 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,399 So, I think in fairness, wouldn't it be 784 00:30:36,399 --> 00:30:37,840 like, "Okay, well, you guys take care of 785 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,279 from here to the road like you would 786 00:30:39,279 --> 00:30:40,720 normally take care of." 787 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,520 >> And then of your new line of fixing that 788 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,799 line or putting in the line, and then 789 00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:46,320 the city takes care of everything else. 790 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,000 In my mind, that kind of seems fair. I 791 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,120 don't know what that ends up being from 792 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,679 a cost standpoint or whatever, but to me 793 00:30:51,679 --> 00:30:53,279 that seems like something I could get 794 00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:55,520 behind. Anyways, sorry. Thanks for your 795 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:56,080 patience, Jeff. 796 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,840 >> Yeah, no worries. I actually my 797 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,279 question, one of my questions dubtales 798 00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:01,200 nicely on that point of precedence. I'm 799 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,720 curious, this is a question from public 800 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,399 works. Do we have a sense of how many 801 00:31:04,399 --> 00:31:07,120 other communities or developments are 802 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,440 similarly situated within Provo? 803 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,840 >> Probably not until it breaks. 804 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,320 >> Yeah, maybe. Um, we have 805 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,159 probably the ones that I'm aware 806 00:31:20,159 --> 00:31:22,320 probably 20 to 30 more. There's maybe 807 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,960 even more than that. And um [clears throat] 808 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:27,840 >> so yeah, 809 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,559 >> we we developed quickly in the 50s and 810 00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:32,559 so there was a lot of developments and a 811 00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:35,360 lot of interesting ways doing things. So 812 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,840 ones that are like this is probably the 813 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,919 only one like I [clears throat] did not 814 00:31:39,919 --> 00:31:41,840 say that I I have not seen any that have 815 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:43,840 been this 816 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,600 kind of design. This is very unique 817 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,519 but there are similar situations that 818 00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:53,120 will will pop up. 819 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,159 >> Yes. 820 00:31:54,159 --> 00:31:56,960 >> Okay. I suspect they 821 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,559 >> uh sorry I have another question for 822 00:31:58,559 --> 00:31:59,840 public works and probably you're the 823 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:05,669 best one is so I'm curious 824 00:32:05,679 --> 00:32:08,399 what are the benefits that the city 825 00:32:08,399 --> 00:32:10,159 would get from doing this beyond kind of 826 00:32:10,159 --> 00:32:12,240 correcting this odd 827 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,320 >> historical analys on a go forward basis 828 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:15,840 what tangible or practical benefits 829 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:16,559 would those be 830 00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:19,679 >> so so right now we're leaking water in 831 00:32:19,679 --> 00:32:21,919 that and the city's paying to do that 832 00:32:21,919 --> 00:32:23,200 water that's not going through any 833 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,760 beater it's just leaking because if we 834 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,559 shut them off, all the residents are out 835 00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:29,760 of water, including the one that's 836 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,480 leaking. Uh, so there's not really a 837 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,960 good way to manage that. We can't meter 838 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,559 how much is leaking, but we know it's 839 00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:39,200 leaking every day, all the time. So, we 840 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,279 would be saving money there. Um, 841 00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:46,880 you know, so, that there would be an actual 842 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:48,480 monetary benefit to getting this done 843 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:49,200 for us. 844 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,519 >> Is there risk? Sorry. Is there Well, go 845 00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:52,559 ahead. That's exactly what I was going 846 00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:54,000 to ask is like is there risk mitigation 847 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,519 for the city? 848 00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:57,519 >> Meaning are we creating a giant sinkhole 849 00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:00,000 between a development that by letting it 850 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,519 leak 100 gallons a day type 851 00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:04,320 >> thing that I we've been monitoring it 852 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:05,919 doesn't appear that that's happening. It 853 00:33:05,919 --> 00:33:07,919 appears to be following the water lines 854 00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:09,679 and sewer lines and just sink in the 855 00:33:09,679 --> 00:33:11,679 ground water. We're not having any as 856 00:33:11,679 --> 00:33:14,159 any challenges. Doesn't say that there 857 00:33:14,159 --> 00:33:18,559 could be something but um today it 858 00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:20,159 doesn't appear that we have that kind of 859 00:33:20,159 --> 00:33:22,960 a problem. 860 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,559 Thank you. 861 00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:28,000 >> Rachel, do you have another comment? 862 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,600 >> Um, yes. Yeah. I 863 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,000 >> I just want to thank them for coming so 864 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,320 that we could be aware of this problem 865 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,120 that it's not only right here. Um, I 866 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,559 think it was 10 years ago that we had to 867 00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:42,799 replace our water mane and we had to 868 00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:45,039 forego any travel for 2 years based on 869 00:33:45,039 --> 00:33:50,480 that. Um, I still I don't know that we 870 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,880 should say that the city is at fault 871 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,440 necessarily for approving this 50 years 872 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,760 ago. I mean, if this was approved, it's 873 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:03,600 because it was asked for. And so, the culpability 874 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,240 spreads around to everyone. Um, it does 875 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,960 matter that however we got here, this is 876 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,440 where we are and it needs to be solved. 877 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,000 Um, 878 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,720 and while I appreciate that the city is 879 00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:20,639 losing water in an unquantified amount, 880 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:22,240 um, 881 00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:25,200 it's losing that water because of a 882 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:32,000 poorly maintained private asset. And I'm still 883 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,639 not inclined to use the city monies to 884 00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,839 fix a private asset. 885 00:34:37,839 --> 00:34:38,879 Thanks. 886 00:34:38,879 --> 00:34:41,359 >> Thank you, Rachel. [snorts] 887 00:34:41,359 --> 00:34:42,480 When [clears throat] will we vote on 888 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,240 this? When will this 889 00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:46,000 >> We're just seeking a motion today if we 890 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,119 want to continue. 891 00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:48,320 >> Okay. 892 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,240 >> If we want to carry it to a council 893 00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:50,639 meeting, 894 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:51,919 >> right? Yeah. This one isn't one that 895 00:34:51,919 --> 00:34:54,560 you're obligated to see. 896 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:55,760 >> Move to count 897 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,920 >> forward. So, you can 898 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,079 >> you can let it you can let it die. You 899 00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:02,720 can make the motion to 900 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:04,320 >> affirmatively let it die or make a 901 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,079 motion to take it to council. What would 902 00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:09,520 be helpful for me to know, Lane, is um 903 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,760 to what extent we did help with the 904 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,520 Quill Valley situation. A little more 905 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,640 detail related to how we helped those 906 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,359 homeowners, what expenses, and I know 907 00:35:19,359 --> 00:35:21,520 they're completely different situations, 908 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,240 but if we can find some commonality here 909 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:26,800 and understand, I I would be open to 910 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,560 doing for this community what we did in 911 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,720 Quell Valley, but I wouldn't want to do 912 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:32,720 something here where Qual would come and 913 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:34,000 say, "Well, you wouldn't do that for 914 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,079 us." I would be interested to know a 915 00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:38,000 little more about what we did a couple 916 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,800 of years ago. I can get that in. 917 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,480 >> I would also be interested to understand 918 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,079 a little bit more about these 20 or so 919 00:35:44,079 --> 00:35:46,480 other cases and see if we can have a 920 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,640 proposal on a general framework like 921 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,119 perhaps what councelor Hobin said about 922 00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:52,960 going to the private property line and 923 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,560 we'll cover that as a general framework, 924 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,079 but anything on the property we leave to 925 00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:57,200 the owners. Something like that I think 926 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,079 would be helpful because I do agree that 927 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:01,599 this is precedent setting and we want to 928 00:36:01,599 --> 00:36:03,280 be fair to all of these similarly 929 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,839 situated properties. 930 00:36:05,839 --> 00:36:09,040 >> So is there a motion then to um 931 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,000 councelor Hoben? 932 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:16,880 >> Well I I do we need a motion? I mean you stated what you wanted. 933 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,440 Um, yeah. I mean, my recommendation 934 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,599 would be I guess I'll make a motion and 935 00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:24,160 we can figure it out, but that we come 936 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,880 up with a framework like Jeff's saying, 937 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,839 and I guess in my mind, I don't know if 938 00:36:29,839 --> 00:36:32,640 I jump jump to this, but the framework 939 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,240 would be that the residents pay to the 940 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:35,680 road and then the city pays for the 941 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,119 portion at the road, you know, then 942 00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:39,760 putting in those new meters um and 943 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:40,960 whatever else they need to do at the 944 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,280 road. But I don't know what that costs 945 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:44,800 look like. you know, I don't know how 946 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,000 that splits the costs. I but um that's a 947 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,680 framework I would like to look at. So, I 948 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:50,800 guess the motion would be for us to 949 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,400 explore that framework, understand what 950 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:53,760 those costs would be to residents, what 951 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,079 the costs be to the city, and then in 952 00:36:56,079 --> 00:36:58,320 addition, how many other situations 953 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,880 around the city might be impacted in a 954 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,520 similar way so that we can know what the 955 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,839 implications are here and then I guess 956 00:37:05,839 --> 00:37:08,240 we can wrap in the request to understand 957 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,240 what we did at Quill. So, I guess we're 958 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:11,440 just making a motion to come back with 959 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:12,960 more information that then we can use to 960 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:14,720 make a better decision regarding a 961 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:15,839 potential framework. 962 00:37:15,839 --> 00:37:17,200 >> Okay, sounds good. Is there 963 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,400 >> as clear as mud? 964 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:19,680 >> I'll I'll second that motion. 965 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,040 >> Okay, and a second by councelor 966 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,320 Whitlock. 967 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,320 >> Um, so I'll call for a vote. Councelor 968 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:25,839 Hoben, 969 00:37:25,839 --> 00:37:26,240 >> yes. 970 00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:27,200 >> Councelor Whitlock, 971 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:27,520 >> yes. 972 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,040 >> Councelor Garrett, yes. Councelor 973 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:29,760 Bogden, 974 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:30,720 >> no. 975 00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:33,440 >> Councelor Whipple, 976 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:34,480 >> yes. 977 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,640 >> And councelor McKay, 978 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,760 >> yes. So that motion passes by a vote of 979 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,920 five to one. 980 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:42,320 >> Sorry. 981 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,880 >> Um and Garrett, I would just like to to 982 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,400 add though that this identified problem 983 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,839 does need to be taken care of 984 00:37:51,839 --> 00:37:54,800 soon. And I I would like to also know 985 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,680 from public works what their normal 986 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,680 procedure would be when they've 987 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,839 identified some sort of a leak on 988 00:38:01,839 --> 00:38:04,320 private property, how they approach that 989 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,119 owner and get them to rectify the 990 00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:09,760 problem. Um 991 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,079 so in with that information gathering 992 00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:14,079 for the similarly situated, I also want 993 00:38:14,079 --> 00:38:16,880 to know about similar leak problems and 994 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,480 how long we leave these things 995 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,480 outstanding and what kind of action the 996 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,800 city would normally take. 997 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,720 Okay. Thank you, Councelor Whipple. 998 00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:28,560 That's been noted and and so um to that 999 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,040 end, if it could come back in two weeks, 1000 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,640 that probably would be helpful. 1001 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,400 >> Okay. All right. 1002 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:37,440 >> Thank you. 1003 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,119 >> And thank you, Mark, for being here 1004 00:38:39,119 --> 00:38:42,079 today. Thank you. 1005 00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:43,680 >> Next, we have a discussion regarding 1006 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,240 outdoor lighting standards. This will be 1007 00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:48,079 presented by our intern, Britain 1008 00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:58,150 Johnson. 1009 00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,760 Okay, thank you, council. We're a little 1010 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,119 behind schedule, so I'll try to be 1011 00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:04,240 brief. Um, but there was a request that 1012 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,599 came in uh hoping to examine our outdoor 1013 00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:09,839 lighting code um to see how we could 1014 00:39:09,839 --> 00:39:11,760 mitigate light pollution while 1015 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,640 prioritizing road and uh pedestrian 1016 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,000 safety on our roadways. Um and so I did 1017 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,000 some research on that and would like to 1018 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,480 share a little bit. Um these are some of 1019 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,000 the guiding tenets that I used in my 1020 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,000 research. These are five principles for 1021 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,760 responsible outdoor lighting. These are 1022 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,400 published by Dark Sky International and 1023 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,359 the illuminating engineering society. 1024 00:39:33,359 --> 00:39:35,280 And to condense this even further, it's 1025 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,520 just using light only where it's needed 1026 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,599 and how it's needed and using the 1027 00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:42,079 correct light to do so. So, if we could 1028 00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:44,560 um go to exhibit A, please, on the 1029 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,160 ordinance. 1030 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:47,839 Um I'm just going to go over a couple of 1031 00:39:47,839 --> 00:39:50,880 the proposed changes. Um we'll start 1032 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,839 with correlated color temperature, 1033 00:39:53,839 --> 00:39:59,520 which is in section 03 1034 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,040 under general revisions. So, um color 1035 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,880 temperature is uh how warm or how cool a 1036 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,200 light looks to your eyes visually. The 1037 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:10,800 warmer it is, the lower on the color 1038 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:12,640 temperature scale. The bluer it is, the 1039 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:17,040 higher. And so 3,00 Kelvin is kind of 1040 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,880 the upper limit of the dark sky 1041 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,800 standard. And so anything um at 3,00 1042 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,240 Kelvin or below for outdoor lighting 1043 00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:26,320 would be considered dark sky compliant. 1044 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,440 There is a trade-off with um introducing 1045 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,760 a captive color temperature, and it's 1046 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,200 that the warmer you go, the harder it is 1047 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,440 to render color both in our eyes and on 1048 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,079 cameras. So, for security footage and 1049 00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:42,560 things like that, having a necessary 1050 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,839 like 3,000 is plenty, but having um a 1051 00:40:45,839 --> 00:40:48,480 certain level of bless I guess to the 1052 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,880 light is important. Um the opposite end 1053 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,760 of that is that if it's super blue, it 1054 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,119 leads to some of the problems with 1055 00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:57,599 atmospheric light pollution 1056 00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:00,240 um and affects sarcadian rhythms for 1057 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:02,319 humans and wildlife among a bunch of 1058 00:41:02,319 --> 00:41:03,920 other things. So, that would be that's 1059 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,760 what's currently in code. Um, if you 1060 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,200 could go back to the slides. 1061 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:18,069 Thank you, Kevin. 1062 00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:20,880 All right, there we go. This is a scale 1063 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,960 to kind of give you a visual of what the 1064 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,720 different color temperatures look like. 1065 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:27,520 What's currently written is the second 1066 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,920 um of the three options. 2700K is u 1067 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,240 sufficient for most uses. However, our 1068 00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:35,520 current street lights that have been 1069 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:36,640 being installed for the last couple 1070 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,760 years or so, um, according to the energy 1071 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,240 department, um, are 3,000 Kelvin, so 1072 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,480 they'd have to get new specs for all of 1073 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,560 their new lights if we did end up doing 1074 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,800 something a little bit more aggressive. 1075 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,400 Um, and this is the more conservative 1076 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,440 option, or we could do a hybrid of those 1077 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:54,880 two things, which we'll open to 1078 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,880 discussion. Um, back to the exhibit. 1079 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,560 Sorry, we'll be jumping back and forth 1080 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,200 in just a second. Um, 1081 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,440 the next big change to the outdoor 1082 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,400 lighting is requiring full shielding, 1083 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,880 which our current code requires cut off 1084 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,359 lighting. And if you could go up to 02. 1085 00:42:13,359 --> 00:42:15,760 Oh, actually it's right here. Excuse me. 1086 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,240 Um, the definition for fully shielding 1087 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:21,119 is that the light has to be recessed 1088 00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:24,480 into the fixture, which some of the kind 1089 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,000 of cobrahead street lights that we've 1090 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,119 seen throughout the city that are a 1091 00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:31,119 little bit older are jut out. Um, and 1092 00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:32,720 additionally, none of the light can go 1093 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:34,800 above the horizontal plane, meaning none 1094 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,359 of it can go up. Um, it all needs to be 1095 00:42:37,359 --> 00:42:40,079 directed downward. Okay? And that, um, 1096 00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:41,760 applies to anywhere in the code where it 1097 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,160 says cut off or shielded. It's now going 1098 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,319 to say fully shielded and full cutff. 1099 00:42:46,319 --> 00:42:51,040 Okay? Um, and then the last um, oh, just 1100 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,119 a couple of other small changes to the 1101 00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:54,480 code. If you could scroll down a little 1102 00:42:54,480 --> 00:43:01,990 bit to 05, I believe. 1103 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,000 So, previously there was a a um a cutout 1104 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,040 for um lighting that met a certain 1105 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,000 historical or architectural style to 1106 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,000 look like it was older. Um it didn't 1107 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,920 have to be shielded. there are lights 1108 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:17,599 that are fully shielded and would meet 1109 00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:19,839 the color temperature requirements that 1110 00:43:19,839 --> 00:43:21,680 do still have that historical 1111 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,680 architectural style. So, we just kind of 1112 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,160 cut out that loophole. Um, and then 1113 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,200 lastly, um, are some exceptions to this 1114 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,560 code. So, uh, Christmas lights, those 1115 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,040 aren't going to be touched. Um, 1116 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,280 construction or emergency lighting, 1117 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,880 airport, 1118 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,200 um, sports lighting, and a few others. 1119 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,359 Um, with sports lighting, um, the limit 1120 00:43:43,359 --> 00:43:44,720 for color temperature is going to be 1121 00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:46,240 5,700, 1122 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:48,560 uh, Kelvin as proposed. That's the upper 1123 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,440 limit for dark sky compliance. It allows 1124 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,520 cameras to render color really really 1125 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,400 well when they're on TV and so the 1126 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,960 players can see the fall. Um, last 1127 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,040 thing, I already said last thing, but 1128 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,359 the last last thing, um, if you keep 1129 00:44:03,359 --> 00:44:05,839 scrolling down is about electronic 1130 00:44:05,839 --> 00:44:09,760 display signs. So um in chapter six of 1131 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,560 our code, it talks about on premises 1132 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,119 electronic display signs and measures it 1133 00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:17,119 in nits, which is a way to measure the 1134 00:44:17,119 --> 00:44:21,040 surface brightness of the um the sign. 1135 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,040 We're just updating our code. If you can 1136 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:32,470 keep scrolling, sorry, it's exhibit B. 1137 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,640 There we are. Perfect. Thank you. So all 1138 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,200 we're doing is we're um using that same 1139 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,839 standard that which is 300 nits as the 1140 00:44:39,839 --> 00:44:42,319 maximum at nighttime and 5,000 nits 1141 00:44:42,319 --> 00:44:44,640 during the daylight um for electronic 1142 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,400 display signs that are off premises 1143 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,359 meaning not on the property. Okay. Um 1144 00:44:49,359 --> 00:44:50,720 and then if you could go back to the 1145 00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:52,240 slides I just have one quick picture to 1146 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:56,240 show and then we'll open for discussion. 1147 00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:59,520 Okay, perfect. Thank you. That's a 1148 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,480 example of full shielding versus just 1149 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,640 shielded fixtures. 1150 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,680 Um, can we discuss that? 1151 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,680 Yes. And we're already making some of 1152 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,200 these changes. So, the dark sky 1153 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,280 compliant lighting for street lights has 1154 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:14,480 already been happening for the last 1155 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,319 couple of years. So, nothing's going to 1156 00:45:16,319 --> 00:45:18,079 change on that front the way it's 1157 00:45:18,079 --> 00:45:19,599 currently proposed. Then I went over 1158 00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:22,480 some of those exceptions. Um, this 1159 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,880 picture I think gives a some what the 1160 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,400 practical impact might be of some of 1161 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,200 these changes. This is Moab, Utah's main 1162 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,200 street. This was before their dark sky 1163 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,680 policy and after. So you can see the 1164 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,599 road is actually not super illuminated, 1165 00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:38,480 but the sky is. Whereas when the light 1166 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,119 is directed downward, the sky is much 1167 00:45:41,119 --> 00:45:42,880 darker. However, the streets actually 1168 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:44,960 appear much more well lit and safer. 1169 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,680 >> That same time of day, same day of the 1170 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:48,400 year, whatever. 1171 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,400 >> Yep. You can see this building here and 1172 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,160 that building. It's just, I guess, moved 1173 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,520 a few feet, but yeah, same same time of 1174 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,839 night, everything. Um, and this color 1175 00:45:57,839 --> 00:46:00,079 temperature is 2700K, 1176 00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:02,400 just for reference. So, ours is even a 1177 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,160 little bit more white than that if 1178 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:05,599 you're concerned about it feeling too 1179 00:46:05,599 --> 00:46:08,960 orange. Um, this is like the old Cobra 1180 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,040 head street light. It's the sodium bulb. 1181 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,280 And then this is the more 1182 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,520 >> this is the what our uh new street 1183 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:16,880 lights look like now. 1184 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,640 >> Yeah, I've seen those showing up in my 1185 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,160 neighborhood. 1186 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:20,480 >> Good. 1187 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,000 >> I hope that you've impro you've enjoyed 1188 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,280 the improvements. Um but these are the 1189 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,160 next steps. We can uh move this to a 1190 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,480 night meeting as currently proposed. We 1191 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,720 can amend the proposal or continue this 1192 00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:34,640 to a future work. So that's all I have 1193 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:35,200 to say. 1194 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,119 >> You know, this issue was brought forward 1195 00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:39,520 by three council members, councilors 1196 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,680 Whitlock, McKay, and Christensen. I'd be 1197 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,359 interested in hearing from councelor 1198 00:46:43,359 --> 00:46:47,119 Whitlock or councelor McKay if this does 1199 00:46:47,119 --> 00:46:49,440 what you had hoped it would do. What are 1200 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,480 some of your thoughts? 1201 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,480 >> Yeah, I So I can just speak for myself. 1202 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,640 I uh 1203 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,400 one of the things I I think is amazing 1204 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:57,839 about Provo is we're close to the 1205 00:46:57,839 --> 00:46:59,760 mountains. We have some of these amazing 1206 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,680 natural resources and I think adding the 1207 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,920 stars to that is going to be amazing. It 1208 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:05,440 also when during the campaign I heard a 1209 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,200 lot from residents kind of complaining 1210 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:08,400 about light at night and making it 1211 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:09,839 difficult to sleep and going to sleep 1212 00:47:09,839 --> 00:47:12,319 and so it has practical benefits. But I 1213 00:47:12,319 --> 00:47:14,880 didn't want to look at something too 1214 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,040 aggressive and and wanted something that 1215 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,200 was sort of reasonable, moderate, not 1216 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,119 add costs to businesses or the city, but 1217 00:47:21,119 --> 00:47:22,560 over the next 10 to 20 years, you'd see 1218 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,240 a substantial improvement. And I think 1219 00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:26,560 this does a pretty good job with that. 1220 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,560 One thing, if it's okay that I add, all 1221 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,560 of this is not retroactive either. This 1222 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,240 doesn't apply to any existing lighting. 1223 00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:33,680 This is only going to be going forward. 1224 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,680 So, new construction, 1225 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:37,599 >> remodels, replacements of old lighting, 1226 00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:39,520 that's what it will apply to. Councelor 1227 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,280 McCay, do you have anything to add to 1228 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,920 what councelor Whitlock said? 1229 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,680 >> No, that was good. 1230 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,200 >> Okay. Councelor Bogdan, 1231 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,200 >> I have a couple of things. So, does this 1232 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,000 apply to like my outdoor lights on my 1233 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:52,480 house? 1234 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,119 >> Yes. As currently proposed. 1235 00:47:55,119 --> 00:47:56,400 >> It's currently 1236 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,960 >> for if you once it needs to be replaced. 1237 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,280 Yes. Once the Go ahead. 1238 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,599 >> No, she's talking about like Christmas 1239 00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:04,720 lights, right? 1240 00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:06,560 >> No. No. Your porch. talking about my 1241 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,160 porch lights on my front and my 1242 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,480 >> back lights. 1243 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:11,680 >> Only if you replace them. 1244 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,359 Correct. I'm 1245 00:48:13,359 --> 00:48:14,560 sorry. Thank you. 1246 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,200 >> Where do you even find my light maps? 1247 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,720 >> Um, we can I have several resources that 1248 00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:24,160 maybe we could post on uh the city 1249 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,559 website or somewhere with with approved 1250 00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:28,160 lighting standards. I've seen several 1251 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:29,599 other cities kind of provide an 1252 00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:30,079 approval. 1253 00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:31,440 >> You know, a lot of times like I've 1254 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,520 bought mine at Costco where they're only 1255 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,760 $30 a light. you start making these $100 1256 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,368 a light or $200 a light 1257 00:48:39,368 --> 00:48:41,040 [laughter] 1258 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,640 >> that's a stinking concern though, right? 1259 00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:45,440 >> Yeah. 1260 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,359 >> Then it starts adding all this light and 1261 00:48:47,359 --> 00:48:48,960 one of the reasons why we have our power 1262 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,839 program that I keep on hearing over and over again is because people 1263 00:48:51,839 --> 00:48:54,240 did want street lights. 1264 00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:56,720 >> Um 1265 00:48:56,720 --> 00:48:58,880 my other question would be how many of 1266 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,240 these do we have in stock? 1267 00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:09,109 >> It was the opposite. 1268 00:49:09,119 --> 00:49:10,400 How many of these do we have in stock? 1269 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,280 Like if we put this in code today, are 1270 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,599 you going to be stuck with 200 street 1271 00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:17,599 lights that you can't use tomorrow? 1272 00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:20,000 >> No, we have made changes for a long time 1273 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,359 ago. So everything inventory is new and 1274 00:49:23,359 --> 00:49:24,960 in compliance. So we have been doing 1275 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,760 that sky for a few years now in terms of 1276 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,319 the street lights. But he said that the 1277 00:49:30,319 --> 00:49:32,400 ones that we're installing now are 3,000 1278 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,480 and they need to be 2700. 1279 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,480 >> No, we are proposing the 3,000 or less. 1280 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,800 >> Oh, you are proposing. So 3,000 will 1281 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,400 >> 3,000 is what's currently in the 1282 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,960 proposed code. That 2700 is a more 1283 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,119 aggressive option that it's open to you 1284 00:49:47,119 --> 00:49:48,720 if you would like to choose that. I just 1285 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:50,079 wanted to make known. 1286 00:49:50,079 --> 00:49:52,000 >> 2700 is what was in the photo, not 1287 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:53,520 what's in the proposal. 1288 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:54,160 >> Oh, okay. 1289 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,004 >> Yeah. Sorry for the confusion. 1290 00:49:56,004 --> 00:49:56,160 [laughter] 1291 00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:57,760 >> Okay. because I don't want to be stuck 1292 00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,640 with 200 lights that now we have nowhere 1293 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,200 to go. I would much rather use up the 1294 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,200 inventory and be, you know, that way as 1295 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:08,000 well. 1296 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:08,400 >> Okay. 1297 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,079 >> And councelor Boggin's first question 1298 00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:11,920 is, are these more costly? 1299 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,680 >> Yeah, great question. They're not. So, 1300 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,800 the way that LEDs, at least modern LEDs 1301 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,720 work, is that the way to change the 1302 00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:20,880 color temperature is to put a different 1303 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,839 level of phosphorus on the light that 1304 00:50:23,839 --> 00:50:25,280 changes the wavelengths that actually 1305 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:26,800 come out of it. So there's no 1306 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,400 significant cost difference between a 1307 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,319 warmer color temperature light and a 1308 00:50:30,319 --> 00:50:31,599 cooler one. 1309 00:50:31,599 --> 00:50:33,359 >> Can we get that in our packet for when 1310 00:50:33,359 --> 00:50:34,880 it when it 1311 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,880 >> per Yeah, absolutely. I'll write that 1312 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,880 down. 1313 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,480 >> Councelor Hogan, did you have other 1314 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:41,119 questions? 1315 00:50:41,119 --> 00:50:42,720 >> Well, I guess I just wanted some clarity 1316 00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:44,880 on [clears throat] what councelor Bton 1317 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,079 was asking. So like in my house, we can 1318 00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:51,119 use my house for example, I have porch 1319 00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:52,800 lights, but [clears throat] there's an 1320 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,720 overhang. They're under an overhang. So, 1321 00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:57,599 >> they're not they're not going up. Um, 1322 00:50:57,599 --> 00:50:59,040 there are some that are under like the 1323 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:00,240 eaves of the house. 1324 00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:00,960 >> Mhm. 1325 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,680 >> I assume those would not be an issue, 1326 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:04,079 right? 1327 00:51:04,079 --> 00:51:05,520 >> As long as the lights are directed 1328 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,480 downwards and recessed, then Yeah. 1329 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,160 >> But then I have one like right outside 1330 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,000 my door 1331 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,260 that lights up the area. There's, 1332 00:51:15,260 --> 00:51:16,800 [clears throat] you know, there's an E. 1333 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,160 But I guess to me, I don't want to put 1334 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,559 something out there that leads to a 1335 00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:24,960 bunch of a lack of clarity for residents 1336 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:25,599 and 1337 00:51:25,599 --> 00:51:26,720 >> Okay, I think it's 1338 00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:30,000 >> so like, okay, so so picture my backyard 1339 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,359 door or even my side door. I've got one 1340 00:51:33,359 --> 00:51:36,079 that comes off the house. I wish I could 1341 00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:39,680 draw this, but basically it's like at at 1342 00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,440 door level, like it's at like height 1343 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,839 level. It's right here by the door, and 1344 00:51:43,839 --> 00:51:45,440 it shines out this way. right now. 1345 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,760 There's there's eaves of the house, but 1346 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,480 that's further up. So, does that have to 1347 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,000 be pointed down or and then I also have 1348 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,400 a few flood lights in my backyard that 1349 00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,319 we [clears throat] flip on like if the 1350 00:51:58,319 --> 00:52:00,240 kids are playing in the backyard and 1351 00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:02,000 those are higher up and those are a 1352 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:02,960 little bit 1353 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,280 >> more like kind of light the whole 1354 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:06,400 backyard 1355 00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:07,760 >> and they're a brighter light, they're a 1356 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:08,720 whiter light. 1357 00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:11,359 >> Anyways, I guess maybe the point I'm 1358 00:52:11,359 --> 00:52:13,119 making is that we have to we have to 1359 00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:16,960 clarify this. I think if if I'm not 1360 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:18,640 going to replace that light now because 1361 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:19,920 now I'm probably going to have to find 1362 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:20,880 something. 1363 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,520 >> But I never was planning to replace any 1364 00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:24,160 ball. But 1365 00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,319 >> one thing I guess I just want clarity 1366 00:52:26,319 --> 00:52:28,960 around that for resident clarify. But as 1367 00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,880 I read all the documentation, it was 1368 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,200 referring to like offremise 1369 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,280 lining. I don't clean any like people 1370 00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:37,760 properly. 1371 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,920 >> Yeah, that was the guidance we gave of 1372 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,400 to try to minimize any requirements on 1373 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:43,599 the individual home. So, 1374 00:52:43,599 --> 00:52:47,510 >> so it's off premise. 1375 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:48,880 » That's my understanding. I was a bit 1376 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,480 surprised by 1377 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:50,960 >> that. 1378 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:52,240 >> I can make sure that that's super 1379 00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:53,680 specific. So, if I'm understanding 1380 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,040 correctly, 1381 00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,839 >> we we don't want any kind of any of 1382 00:52:57,839 --> 00:52:59,359 these kind of requirements to apply to 1383 00:52:59,359 --> 00:53:02,160 single family homes or any kind of on 1384 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:03,040 premises. 1385 00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,319 >> What are you providing? We're good. 1386 00:53:04,319 --> 00:53:05,040 >> Yeah. 1387 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,720 >> So, what does premises mean? My 1388 00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:07,440 property? 1389 00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:08,800 >> Yes, that's my understanding. 1390 00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,079 >> Anything on your own property? 1391 00:53:10,079 --> 00:53:11,680 >> You can do whatever. Then what would be 1392 00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,079 an off property off-remise sign? Would 1393 00:53:14,079 --> 00:53:17,359 like the mall huge sign be underneath 1394 00:53:17,359 --> 00:53:17,839 something? 1395 00:53:17,839 --> 00:53:19,119 >> That falls under a different criteria. 1396 00:53:19,119 --> 00:53:22,079 >> Yeah. Say well signs and lights are two 1397 00:53:22,079 --> 00:53:23,920 different things, but and so we're kind 1398 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,640 of conflating the the terms, but we 1399 00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,559 refer to signs as being either on 1400 00:53:28,559 --> 00:53:30,880 premises or off- premises. Off- premises 1401 00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:32,720 is the legal term for a billboard. It 1402 00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:34,480 means they're advertising something they 1403 00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,160 don't sell on the property where the 1404 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:36,800 sign is. 1405 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,839 >> Okay? An onremise sign is a sign in 1406 00:53:39,839 --> 00:53:41,520 front of your business that advertises 1407 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,559 your business, right? So, so that's the 1408 00:53:44,559 --> 00:53:47,280 sign piece of this. Then, and then we're 1409 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:48,800 and the second issue is just whether 1410 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,920 we're talking about lights. I I'd have 1411 00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,480 to look because I don't I don't think 1412 00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,480 off premise is the right phrase to use 1413 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:57,839 when we're talking about lights because 1414 00:53:57,839 --> 00:53:59,920 parking lots are part of the premise and 1415 00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:02,480 we do want to address parking lot. So I 1416 00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,960 think we're more talking about maybe 1417 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,200 lights that are on structure residential 1418 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,920 structures versus off the structure. 1419 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:11,760 >> So we just need clarity on that. But we 1420 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:13,359 we'll we'll we'll look through make 1421 00:54:13,359 --> 00:54:13,599 sure. 1422 00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:16,000 >> Yeah. The intent was not to put burden 1423 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,240 or requirements on sink on homes. 1424 00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:19,680 >> Yeah. And then the other thing I was 1425 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,680 going to make which I think Travis hit 1426 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,200 on when he was talking through it is 1427 00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,280 that there's a difference between 1428 00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,760 replacing the light and replacing the 1429 00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,400 fixture. If you replace the bulb, you'd 1430 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:31,920 have to come into compliance with the 1431 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,480 color issue, but you wouldn't have to 1432 00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,760 also fix the fixture definitely the 1433 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:38,240 intent. 1434 00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:40,079 >> And so fixtures 1435 00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:45,520 >> and existing fixtures are all in all in compliance. So it' only be for new 1436 00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,119 fixtures be. But we'll 1437 00:54:47,119 --> 00:54:49,200 >> but 1438 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:50,800 that's not even for residential. 1439 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:50,960 >> Yeah. 1440 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:52,720 >> Well, yeah, because I was going to say 1441 00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:54,319 nobody's going to read this code. 1442 00:54:54,319 --> 00:54:55,599 Nobody's going to understand this. 1443 00:54:55,599 --> 00:54:58,000 Nobody's going to do this. 1444 00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,319 It it it just seems too complex to start 1445 00:55:00,319 --> 00:55:00,480 getting 1446 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:01,359 >> well. Well, and that's why I said 1447 00:55:01,359 --> 00:55:03,200 because it's only for new construction, 1448 00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,040 the developers are going to read it and and and planning is going to review 1449 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:08,720 it when they review the plan. So, 1450 00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:10,000 >> the only time it's going to come up is 1451 00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,680 when somebody's submitting a proposal 1452 00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:13,760 for a new development or for a permit 1453 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,670 for a remodel, 1454 00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:18,480 » we'll clarify that. 1455 00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,119 >> Yeah, let's let's clarify that because 1456 00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:23,440 >> if one of my residents or even if I got 1457 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,359 a zoning violation for the color of my 1458 00:55:25,359 --> 00:55:27,438 light, I'd be really pissed. 1459 00:55:27,438 --> 00:55:28,000 >> [laughter] 1460 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:29,680 >> I agree. I agree with you. And that was 1461 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,559 not at all. It's mostly as the city 1462 00:55:32,559 --> 00:55:34,800 redevelops and we get new development, 1463 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:36,480 then we bring it more and more into its 1464 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,800 compliance. So, like I said, it's a 1465 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:40,400 long-term investment for I think a 1466 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,720 beautiful outcome in 10 to 20 years. 1467 00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:44,640 >> So, I'll look for a motion to either 1468 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,720 continue clarifying and bring it back to 1469 00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:49,920 a future work meeting or if that cl or 1470 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,520 if you want to have it clarified and 1471 00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,440 bring it to a council meeting, we can do 1472 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,270 it that way, too. 1473 00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,520 I Okay, I'll make a motion that it comes 1474 00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,160 back to here to a work meeting because I 1475 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:03,200 would like to look at it and make 1476 00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:04,960 refinements before it went to a council 1477 00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,400 meeting. So, I make a motion that this 1478 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,040 ordinance comes back to council. What do 1479 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,520 we want to say in a month? Is that going 1480 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:14,960 to be 1481 00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:16,480 >> honestly in two weeks? I think we can 1482 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:16,720 all 1483 00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:18,720 >> two weeks would be good. Okay, bring it 1484 00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:20,400 back in two weeks. 1485 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:21,359 >> Is there a second? 1486 00:56:21,359 --> 00:56:23,440 >> I'll second that motion. Okay. Sounds a 1487 00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,359 second by councelor Whitlock. With the 1488 00:56:25,359 --> 00:56:27,520 motion by councelor Bogdan. I'll call 1489 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,599 for a vote. Councelor Whitlock. 1490 00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:30,000 >> Yes. 1491 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:31,680 >> Councelor Garrett. Yes. Councelor 1492 00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:32,319 Bogden. 1493 00:56:32,319 --> 00:56:32,640 >> Yes. 1494 00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,480 >> Councelor Hoben. 1495 00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,640 >> Yes. With the caveat that t technically 1496 00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,319 we are supposed to have discussion on 1497 00:56:38,319 --> 00:56:39,760 the motion, but 1498 00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:40,480 >> thank you. 1499 00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:41,920 >> I don't think there is one for this, but 1500 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:42,640 I'm just saying. 1501 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:44,559 >> Thank you for reminding me. 1502 00:56:44,559 --> 00:56:46,000 >> Councelor Whipple. 1503 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,440 >> Yeah, if there had been discussion, I 1504 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:48,799 would have said that. I'm completely in 1505 00:56:48,799 --> 00:56:50,319 support of this and really glad to see 1506 00:56:50,319 --> 00:56:52,640 it coming. Um, I don't actually see the 1507 00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,640 need for a delay, but I will go with the 1508 00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:56,720 group on that. So, I'll vote yes. 1509 00:56:56,720 --> 00:56:59,280 >> And councelor McKay? 1510 00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:00,480 >> Yes. 1511 00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,040 >> Okay. So, that motion passes 6. I 1512 00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:04,640 apologize for skipping over the 1513 00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,559 discussion. 1514 00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:08,964 All right. Thank you, Breton. 1515 00:57:08,964 --> 00:57:10,079 [clears throat] 1516 00:57:10,079 --> 00:57:12,319 Next, we have a resolution adopting an 1517 00:57:12,319 --> 00:57:15,040 American Americans with Disabilities Act 1518 00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,280 transition plan. This will be presented 1519 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,760 by one one of our engineers, David 1520 00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:25,910 Mickelson. David, welcome. 1521 00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:27,359 Thank you, council. Appreciate being 1522 00:57:27,359 --> 00:57:29,599 here. Um, today I'm just presenting on 1523 00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:32,160 the transition plan. So, I'm going to 1524 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:33,760 kind of go over some background of how 1525 00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,079 we got here, why we need this, and then 1526 00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:38,640 kind of our steps forward from this. So, 1527 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:42,160 um, a little background, ADA, um, the 1528 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,640 American Americans with Disabilities Act 1529 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,480 from 1990, 1530 00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,359 um, requires all public entities to have 1531 00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:51,599 a transition plan. Essentially, a plan 1532 00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:53,920 that shows what's wrong in the city and 1533 00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,400 how we're going to move into compliance. 1534 00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,960 Um, this is not just physical 1535 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:00,799 facilities, which I think often we think 1536 00:58:00,799 --> 00:58:03,119 of when we talk about um, ADA 1537 00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:05,839 facilities. Um but this can extend to 1538 00:58:05,839 --> 00:58:08,880 communications, public meetings, um 1539 00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,359 trails, restrooms. There's a lot of 1540 00:58:11,359 --> 00:58:15,040 things that are incorporated in ADA. So 1541 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,359 really the questions um that this kind 1542 00:58:17,359 --> 00:58:19,359 of answers is not that is this building 1543 00:58:19,359 --> 00:58:21,839 ADA compliant, but you know, can someone 1544 00:58:21,839 --> 00:58:24,319 with a disability meaningfully access 1545 00:58:24,319 --> 00:58:27,040 all of our services, our programs, you 1546 00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,839 know, in a in a reasonable way? Um the 1547 00:58:29,839 --> 00:58:31,440 plan details kind of some of this 1548 00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,359 background information and talks about 1549 00:58:33,359 --> 00:58:36,240 our responsibility as as the city. I'm 1550 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,160 going to just kind of briefly go over 1551 00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:41,520 those. Um but our responsibility as 1552 00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,480 provo city is to provide equal access, 1553 00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,960 prevent discrimination, 1554 00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,280 um make reasonable accommodations, 1555 00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,599 provide effective communication, 1556 00:58:51,599 --> 00:58:54,000 uh have a system for ADA compliance 1557 00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,559 which includes ADA coordinators and a 1558 00:58:56,559 --> 00:58:59,520 grievance protocol and then to develop a 1559 00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,319 transition plan. So the plan that I have 1560 00:59:02,319 --> 00:59:06,880 put together here and presenting um it 1561 00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,000 is we we'll adopt it that's the motion 1562 00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,400 is to to put this into place and accept 1563 00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,960 it as the official plan. It is a work in 1564 00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,040 a progress and so there is more that's 1565 00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,440 needed here and I'll I'll discuss that. 1566 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,680 But so so what is this plan? This plan 1567 00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:23,920 is basically our road map. Um because 1568 00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:25,839 the city can't reasonably address all of 1569 00:59:25,839 --> 00:59:27,920 our barriers that we have for ADA all at 1570 00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,480 once. um this is basically a roadmap 1571 00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,240 that says, "Hey, we're aware of these 1572 00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:33,839 issues and this is how we're going to 1573 00:59:33,839 --> 00:59:38,079 grow into compliance." Um and so it it 1574 00:59:38,079 --> 00:59:39,440 not only details that, but kind of 1575 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,599 creates a mindset of, you know, how can 1576 00:59:41,599 --> 00:59:43,440 we make this a better experience for 1577 00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:45,280 those with disabilities here in the 1578 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,430 city. 1579 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:52,640 Um so there's two parts of this plan. 1580 00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,400 I'm going super quick, so I hope there's 1581 00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:55,760 questions. I may not need the full time. 1582 00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,319 I apologize. Um there's two parts of 1583 00:59:58,319 --> 00:59:59,760 this this plan that are kind of the 1584 00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,440 major components. The self-evaluation 1585 01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,760 and then the transition plan itself. The 1586 01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,079 self-evaluation is an assist is an 1587 01:00:06,079 --> 01:00:07,839 assessment of the city's existing 1588 01:00:07,839 --> 01:00:10,000 programs, services, activities, 1589 01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,319 facilities and practices and it's done 1590 01:00:12,319 --> 01:00:14,240 to identify those potential barriers or 1591 01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:17,280 existing barriers that we have in the 1592 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,960 city across all those things. Um so it 1593 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:22,960 really provides the information that 1594 01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:26,000 helps fuel the plan. So some of the 1595 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,240 things so right now the plan the plan 1596 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,640 that's proposed includes assessments 1597 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:32,559 that have been done through parks and 1598 01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:35,520 wreck as well as public works um while 1599 01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:37,280 the other city program services will 1600 01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,280 continue to be evaluated and we are 1601 01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:40,960 actively working with those other 1602 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:42,559 departments to be able to help move 1603 01:00:42,559 --> 01:00:45,200 through that process. Um but right now 1604 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:46,720 just parks and wreck and public works 1605 01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:48,559 are included in this plan. The great 1606 01:00:48,559 --> 01:00:50,160 thing is that this is a living document 1607 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,400 and so as we get those additional 1608 01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,319 assessments and identify those needs, 1609 01:00:54,319 --> 01:00:57,760 they can be added very simply. Um so 1610 01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,520 with public works and parks, things that 1611 01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,079 have been assessed are like site access, 1612 01:01:02,079 --> 01:01:05,200 sidewalks, curb ramps, um parking lots, 1613 01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,119 how to access from parking lots to 1614 01:01:07,119 --> 01:01:10,480 facilities, building access, uh 1615 01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:12,640 restrooms, and those amenities within 1616 01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,640 the restrooms, and then recreational 1617 01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:16,559 amenities like playgrounds, picnic 1618 01:01:16,559 --> 01:01:19,680 areas, things like that. Um and so those 1619 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,839 evaluations that I have contained here 1620 01:01:21,839 --> 01:01:23,839 in this plan help fuel what we're going 1621 01:01:23,839 --> 01:01:26,000 to do about it. Um, and obviously that 1622 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,000 plan again will change and it'll evolve 1623 01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,640 as we add additional information. Uh, 1624 01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:32,400 the transition plan then takes this 1625 01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,000 information and says here's how we're 1626 01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,400 going to implement it. Um, and there's a 1627 01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,799 number of ways that they're that can be 1628 01:01:38,799 --> 01:01:40,480 implemented and changed and it kind of 1629 01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,559 depends on the department and and what 1630 01:01:42,559 --> 01:01:44,799 needs to be changed. Um, but I kind of 1631 01:01:44,799 --> 01:01:46,559 broke it down where it's like some are 1632 01:01:46,559 --> 01:01:48,240 done through maintenance and operational 1633 01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:49,680 costs, right? Things that can be done 1634 01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,559 very quickly and very uh relatively for 1635 01:01:52,559 --> 01:01:55,760 low cost. Others are programmatic where 1636 01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,680 programs or services that we offer may 1637 01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,720 need to be adjusted or changed or um 1638 01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:03,200 just other alternatives or accessibility 1639 01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:04,720 options need to be provided for those 1640 01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:06,640 things. And then there's the large ones 1641 01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,720 which are going to incr include capital 1642 01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:12,000 improvements may involve design um you 1643 01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:13,680 know future budgeting and may take a 1644 01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:21,109 longer time to implement those things. 1645 01:02:21,119 --> 01:02:22,960 So, as far as the plan that we have 1646 01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,440 here, parks and wreck, um I've included 1647 01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,520 their kind of documentation, they have 1648 01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:29,119 about a thousand items that were 1649 01:02:29,119 --> 01:02:30,480 identified in their parks, and that's 1650 01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,200 kind of appendex E, I believe. Um that 1651 01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:35,119 added about 60 pages to the document. 1652 01:02:35,119 --> 01:02:36,799 So, I chose not to add all of public 1653 01:02:36,799 --> 01:02:40,000 works. We have about 15,000 identified 1654 01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:41,680 issues, which would make this document 1655 01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,559 very long. Um but those those items in 1656 01:02:44,559 --> 01:02:47,520 that document um is maintained and we 1657 01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,079 assess that. Um but our transition plan 1658 01:02:50,079 --> 01:02:53,359 both for parks and wreck and and um 1659 01:02:53,359 --> 01:02:55,839 public works involve those kind of three 1660 01:02:55,839 --> 01:02:57,680 things working through with maintenance 1661 01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:59,760 capital projects and those are detailed 1662 01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,240 in the parks plan here and public works 1663 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,880 will continue to update our plan um as 1664 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:06,640 we move forward. What I have included 1665 01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,680 for public works is kind of a a 10-year 1666 01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:11,440 plan of what we have allocated for 1667 01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:13,680 budget and what we intend to fix with 1668 01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:15,839 that um each year. 1669 01:03:15,839 --> 01:03:18,559 >> And that's the table one. Correct. Okay. 1670 01:03:18,559 --> 01:03:20,160 And you have that Kevin, could you put 1671 01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:23,119 that on the screen? Table one. 1672 01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:27,510 >> No, 1673 01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:31,039 it's going to be page 1674 01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:32,079 12. 1675 01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:34,799 >> Thank you so much. 1676 01:03:34,799 --> 01:03:36,319 Okay, keep going, David. Sorry. 1677 01:03:36,319 --> 01:03:37,599 >> No. 1678 01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:40,880 >> Um, though we we feel like this is this 1679 01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:42,559 is and we feel that this is an important 1680 01:03:42,559 --> 01:03:44,799 plan to have in place both for legality 1681 01:03:44,799 --> 01:03:46,880 reasons, but also because we want to 1682 01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:48,799 make sure that our city is accessible to 1683 01:03:48,799 --> 01:03:50,640 everyone, right? We have a great city. 1684 01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:52,400 We have a lot of wonderful services and 1685 01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,079 facilities and we want to make sure that 1686 01:03:54,079 --> 01:03:55,920 everyone can participate uh equally 1687 01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,000 there. So going forward the most 1688 01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,400 important thing is that um once this is 1689 01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,480 in place this is a living document we 1690 01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,200 will revisit this every few years to 1691 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,400 update um it is intended that this is 1692 01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:10,319 also including sections where it's like 1693 01:04:10,319 --> 01:04:12,240 hey here are the improvements we've done 1694 01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:14,400 to highlight you know the the gains and 1695 01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:16,400 the improvements that we've done. So 1696 01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,280 over the years we'll add and our intent 1697 01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:20,799 is over the next couple of months to 1698 01:04:20,799 --> 01:04:22,559 include the rest of the city as 1699 01:04:22,559 --> 01:04:24,400 evaluations are are performed and 1700 01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,039 finished um to kind of beef up this 1701 01:04:27,039 --> 01:04:29,599 document to include the whole city. Our 1702 01:04:29,599 --> 01:04:31,359 you know all of our programs and and 1703 01:04:31,359 --> 01:04:32,880 different departments that may have 1704 01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,520 barriers that are identified. Um if we 1705 01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,440 find things that aren't an issue, we'll 1706 01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:39,920 note that. Um, but this document will 1707 01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:41,680 live and breathe as we continue through 1708 01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:43,280 the city as our capital improvements and 1709 01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:46,400 maintenance upgrade our ADA compliance. 1710 01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,039 So, the goal is to meet compliance and 1711 01:04:49,039 --> 01:04:51,359 have everything fixed. Um, but I'm just 1712 01:04:51,359 --> 01:04:52,880 going to tell you with with public works 1713 01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:54,559 and our sidewalks, we'll never be there 1714 01:04:54,559 --> 01:04:56,559 because we may fix a thousand things and 1715 01:04:56,559 --> 01:04:58,559 a thousand will pop up again. So, this 1716 01:04:58,559 --> 01:05:00,240 will be something that we we work on 1717 01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:04,400 forever as a city to to slowly grow into 1718 01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,280 compliance. Um 1719 01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,839 so I think that um yeah and we recognize 1720 01:05:11,839 --> 01:05:13,119 that not every improvement can be 1721 01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:14,640 completed immediately. Not every 1722 01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,559 deficiency requires the same solution. 1723 01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:18,480 So ultimately this is more about 1724 01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:19,920 compliance. It is about ensuring that 1725 01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,079 residents and visitors with disabilities 1726 01:05:22,079 --> 01:05:23,520 have meaningful access to the city 1727 01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:24,960 program services, facilities and 1728 01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,359 recreational opportunities. And that is 1729 01:05:27,359 --> 01:05:29,520 all that I have for Thank you, David. 1730 01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:30,960 Councelor Bogdom, 1731 01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:32,799 >> I have a few questions. This one I know 1732 01:05:32,799 --> 01:05:35,839 you can answer. I'm hoping. Anyway, um 1733 01:05:35,839 --> 01:05:39,680 the one that I've heard is a big one is 1734 01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:41,599 Freedom Boulevard where it curves into 1735 01:05:41,599 --> 01:05:43,200 University Parkway. 1736 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:44,000 >> Okay. 1737 01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:48,400 >> That corner that's on the souththeast. 1738 01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,160 There's absolutely nothing there. And 1739 01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:53,440 that's going from a collector or is that 1740 01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:55,839 Oh, that's a big road. 1741 01:05:55,839 --> 01:05:57,359 >> Is that right by Denny's? 1742 01:05:57,359 --> 01:05:58,720 >> Right. Yeah, just north of Denny's. 1743 01:05:58,720 --> 01:05:59,440 Right. 1744 01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,760 >> Right there. There's no It's just grass. 1745 01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:03,200 And so I think that was one thing that 1746 01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,079 was brought up that were from some of 1747 01:06:06,079 --> 01:06:08,400 our wheelchairs that like to travel 1748 01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:10,319 around that that's a really busy 1749 01:06:10,319 --> 01:06:12,880 intersection and there's no sidewalk 1750 01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,559 >> to keep them safe right there. 1751 01:06:14,559 --> 01:06:16,640 >> What is our long-term plan for that? 1752 01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:20,079 >> That's a great uh question. So kind of 1753 01:06:20,079 --> 01:06:21,680 into the details here with that, but 1754 01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:24,559 we've identified about 200 miles of 1755 01:06:24,559 --> 01:06:26,960 missing sidewalk within the city. And so 1756 01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:30,000 as needs come up, if those are are along 1757 01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:33,119 routes that are used by um individuals 1758 01:06:33,119 --> 01:06:34,880 with accessibility needs, those 1759 01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:36,960 obviously will bump up priority, but 1760 01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:39,039 those are always great to have feedback 1761 01:06:39,039 --> 01:06:41,200 and and give us. We've identified those 1762 01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:42,559 locations and where we have missing 1763 01:06:42,559 --> 01:06:45,200 sidewalk, but now it's just um 1764 01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:46,799 allocating those funds and and 1765 01:06:46,799 --> 01:06:48,400 programming that into our sidewalk 1766 01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:51,680 installation plan um to get those in. 1767 01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,880 >> So is that not in our 10-year CIP? Um, 1768 01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:56,880 in this plan, I don't include the CIP. 1769 01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:58,319 It's more of the maintenance stuff that 1770 01:06:58,319 --> 01:07:01,520 I've included here. Um, CIP is kind of a 1771 01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:03,680 year-to-year basis as we determine what 1772 01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:05,680 those needs are and where we're 1773 01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:07,440 installing new sidewalks. It also 1774 01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:10,240 depends on allocated funds. With the 1775 01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:11,920 500,000 that we have each year for 1776 01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:13,200 maintenance, that's what I've included 1777 01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:14,480 in this plan because that's something 1778 01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,440 that we've had um as a reliable source. 1779 01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:21,599 And so that's what I focused our kind of 1780 01:07:21,599 --> 01:07:24,000 transition piece that's included in this 1781 01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:24,880 on. 1782 01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:26,480 >> But we're also looking at chip hazards. 1783 01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:27,839 So even Yeah. 1784 01:07:27,839 --> 01:07:29,039 >> And that's included in the maintenance 1785 01:07:29,039 --> 01:07:30,559 here as well. Yeah. 1786 01:07:30,559 --> 01:07:32,880 >> Um and then a couple questions. I'm 1787 01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:36,240 unclear on where these parks are. It has 1788 01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,799 neighborhood. What is neighborhood? 1789 01:07:38,799 --> 01:07:40,240 >> Great question. 1790 01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:42,079 >> That's kind of what I was hoping parks 1791 01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:43,440 would be here for. First neighborhood 1792 01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,359 park is like 1793 01:07:45,359 --> 01:07:48,319 >> a very grand revenge park where I used 1794 01:07:48,319 --> 01:07:49,280 to live off 1795 01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:50,559 >> off of 300 South. 1796 01:07:50,559 --> 01:07:52,799 >> 300 South over 1797 01:07:52,799 --> 01:07:55,680 >> it's just like a corner. 1798 01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:58,319 >> So it's a real place and 300. It's just 1799 01:07:58,319 --> 01:08:00,880 like a corner lot with the mountains 1800 01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:02,640 next to that. 1801 01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:04,720 >> It's like if you go if you go if you go 1802 01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:06,480 >> and there's just a picnic table. 1803 01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:07,599 >> Yeah. If you go out if you go 1804 01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:09,599 >> on State Street in 900 East. 1805 01:08:09,599 --> 01:08:12,720 >> Yeah. 2100 also road 1806 01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:15,200 >> and what is roadside park 1807 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:17,759 >> and these may be may be something we 1808 01:08:17,759 --> 01:08:19,199 need to update or include a map or 1809 01:08:19,199 --> 01:08:21,279 something but that's it may be no 1810 01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:23,279 include that parks uses internally or 1811 01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:24,080 something 1812 01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:26,400 >> there's still a lot of parks that I 1813 01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:30,319 >> as you mentioned I know 1814 01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:32,319 >> while you're checking Becky let's um go 1815 01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:35,279 with a couple of comments online Krice 1816 01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:36,640 would you like to go first and then 1817 01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:38,480 Rachel 1818 01:08:38,480 --> 01:08:40,880 >> yeah I just had a question for Brian Um, 1819 01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:42,880 I'm glad we're doing this. It's It is 1820 01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:44,560 overwhelming and I'm just wondering 1821 01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,799 legally thinking about the financial 1822 01:08:48,799 --> 01:08:51,759 aspect. So, financially legally what is 1823 01:08:51,759 --> 01:08:53,600 required 1824 01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:56,799 so we can know financially if this is 1825 01:08:56,799 --> 01:08:59,520 going to doom us or not. 1826 01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,000 >> Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Secondly, I'm also 1827 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,000 wondering legally 1828 01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,159 like 1829 01:09:06,159 --> 01:09:07,679 for example, does this mean we couldn't 1830 01:09:07,679 --> 01:09:10,000 teach a skateboarding class at the rec 1831 01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:12,000 center because everyone couldn't do a 1832 01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:13,759 skateboarding class? Like I'm just 1833 01:09:13,759 --> 01:09:15,920 wondering legally does this limit us 1834 01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,880 that nothing can be done that everyone 1835 01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:20,880 couldn't participate in. So I'm 1836 01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:22,239 wondering about both those things. 1837 01:09:22,239 --> 01:09:24,640 >> Yeah. So I'll answer the second one 1838 01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,880 first which no I mean two things. One is 1839 01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:32,159 this plan doesn't limit us in any ways 1840 01:09:32,159 --> 01:09:34,560 that the law doesn't already limit us. I 1841 01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:36,480 mean the the federal ADA law is already 1842 01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:38,799 in place already binds us. This is 1843 01:09:38,799 --> 01:09:40,880 actually a plan for how to come into 1844 01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,400 compliance. And so 1845 01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:47,040 uh so it's not imposing restrictions on 1846 01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:49,199 us that don't already exist anyway. It's 1847 01:09:49,199 --> 01:09:51,199 a presentation of how we're going to 1848 01:09:51,199 --> 01:09:54,000 handle those restrictions. Secondly, 1849 01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:58,000 with regard to your uh question about um 1850 01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:02,480 uh the the programming, no, we're not 1851 01:10:02,480 --> 01:10:06,400 required necessarily to um inherently 1852 01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:08,560 automatically. We don't have to make a 1853 01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:10,960 an upfront decision that we can't do 1854 01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:12,560 programs because somebody might not be 1855 01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:17,840 able to participate. What in it's the reverse though is that if we are 1856 01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:20,560 offering a program and somebody wants to 1857 01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:22,159 be able to participate who can't 1858 01:10:22,159 --> 01:10:24,000 participate in the form we are offering 1859 01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,239 it then there's a process by which they 1860 01:10:26,239 --> 01:10:28,880 can request accommodations and we have 1861 01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,440 to consider those but they have but and 1862 01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:32,800 then there's all kinds of legal 1863 01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:34,159 requirements about whether they're 1864 01:10:34,159 --> 01:10:40,320 reasonable and that can involve cost and specificity and and who who the 1865 01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,000 person is and stuff. There's a long 1866 01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,560 process that we would go through to 1867 01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:46,000 determine whether we had to make a 1868 01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,960 change or not. But it's not just that we 1869 01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:50,480 have to make a change no matter what. 1870 01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:51,760 It's just that people can ask for it. 1871 01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:54,080 Then we have to consider how to do it. 1872 01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:59,600 Um with regard to the monetary uh um 1873 01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:02,159 implications, again, there's nothing 1874 01:11:02,159 --> 01:11:04,320 about this plan that's not addressing 1875 01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:05,360 something that we're not already 1876 01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:07,520 required to do. So, at some point the 1877 01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:08,719 money is going to be spent, but there's 1878 01:11:08,719 --> 01:11:11,920 also nothing about the law that says you 1879 01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,960 have to do it all tomorrow. So, so this 1880 01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,280 is ex uh exactly when you're going to do 1881 01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:22,080 it. The the real um I guess the the the 1882 01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:24,159 real basic answer to your question is 1883 01:11:24,159 --> 01:11:26,719 what the law really requires is that we 1884 01:11:26,719 --> 01:11:29,600 have the plan. We're actually subject to 1885 01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:31,600 significant 1886 01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:34,000 fines for not having the plan. So, if 1887 01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:35,360 you're worried about money, the worst 1888 01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:37,440 thing is not having the plan. 1889 01:11:37,440 --> 01:11:38,239 >> Oh, [laughter] 1890 01:11:38,239 --> 01:11:40,320 that's great. Thanks for that. That 1891 01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:43,120 explains everything for me. 1892 01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:46,159 >> Councelor Whipple. 1893 01:11:46,159 --> 01:11:49,440 >> Yes. I was so happy to see this. Um, one 1894 01:11:49,440 --> 01:11:51,679 of my neighbors that I care for very 1895 01:11:51,679 --> 01:11:55,360 much is in a wheelchair and we have old 1896 01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:59,360 sidewalks that have uplift and gaps and 1897 01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:02,080 holes and this really affects her 1898 01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:03,679 ability to move through our 1899 01:12:03,679 --> 01:12:07,840 neighborhood. Um, and I became acutely 1900 01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:09,520 aware of that when I was campaigning the 1901 01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:10,880 first time on one of those stupid little 1902 01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:18,640 knee scooters. and you feel every variation in the sidewalk and it 1903 01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,920 can be a real problem. I know that we 1904 01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:23,920 did this survey a couple of years ago 1905 01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,480 just because I think until that point we 1906 01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:28,960 didn't have a good handle on how many 1907 01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:30,719 miles of sidewalks we had, what 1908 01:12:30,719 --> 01:12:33,600 condition they were in. And my 1909 01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,159 understanding was when that initial 1910 01:12:36,159 --> 01:12:38,560 report which is is used in this was 1911 01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:42,000 given to us um it became 1912 01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:45,199 like just depressingly clear that the 1913 01:12:45,199 --> 01:12:49,280 $500,000 a year for this modification 1914 01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:51,600 repair and trip hazard was going to be 1915 01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:55,360 really inadequate to addressing the 1916 01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,400 existing problems especially when that 1917 01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,800 wasn't actually taking into account the 1918 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:02,560 new sidewalks that need to be built. 1919 01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,480 like counselor Bogdton brought up, you 1920 01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:07,600 know, the missing one by what Boxfield 1921 01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:10,640 and and everything else. So, I'm really 1922 01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:13,440 happy to see that we have a clear plan 1923 01:13:13,440 --> 01:13:16,800 and accountability to address these 1924 01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,920 issues. I think this will will do a lot 1925 01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:24,000 to help make our community better. And 1926 01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,040 I'm also I mean even though I want it 1927 01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:29,040 done really like sooner rather than 1928 01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:31,120 later, I'm really grateful that there's 1929 01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:34,239 not a deadline so that we can chip away 1930 01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:37,120 at it in a fiscally responsible way 1931 01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:39,760 instead of, you know, having to mortgage 1932 01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:41,360 the house in order to get this little 1933 01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:45,280 improvement done. Thank you. 1934 01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,120 >> Thank you, councelor Whipple. Councelor 1935 01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:48,640 Bogman, did you find your other 1936 01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:50,320 reference? Did you have other questions 1937 01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:56,159 on other parks? I got a text from a resident and she was asking about 1938 01:13:56,159 --> 01:13:58,719 the Fox thing as well and I told her 1939 01:13:58,719 --> 01:14:00,719 that was a conversation we have with the 1940 01:14:00,719 --> 01:14:02,239 school board that was their 1941 01:14:02,239 --> 01:14:03,600 responsibility to put in and they 1942 01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:05,360 lowered on that portion. 1943 01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:07,040 >> So yeah, I I got that. 1944 01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:08,480 >> Okay, great. Thank you, Councelor 1945 01:14:08,480 --> 01:14:10,719 Whitlock. 1946 01:14:10,719 --> 01:14:13,280 >> So another question for you which I 1947 01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:14,800 think you've fairly answered but I just 1948 01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:17,520 want to poke on it a little bit. So 1949 01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:21,280 based on my math, our the identified 1950 01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:22,480 backlog and the rate at which we're 1951 01:14:22,480 --> 01:14:24,800 improving is 33 years or some arrest 1952 01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:27,840 which is pretty large. Is putting that 1953 01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:30,480 in writing is that not exposing us to 1954 01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:32,880 legal risk as having an unreasonable 1955 01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:37,040 plan if there is some sort of issue. 1956 01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:38,800 >> Um 1957 01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:40,719 less risk than not putting them in 1958 01:14:40,719 --> 01:14:41,920 writing. 1959 01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:44,000 >> Um be again because what they really 1960 01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:45,600 look at is whether you have a plan or 1961 01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:48,800 not. Now, could DOJ come in and do a 1962 01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:51,679 review and say your plan's unreasonable? 1963 01:14:51,679 --> 01:14:54,320 Sure. But that would be a collaborative 1964 01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:55,600 process. Okay. 1965 01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:57,679 >> Whereby we would end where we would work 1966 01:14:57,679 --> 01:14:59,920 together to fix the plan rather than 1967 01:14:59,920 --> 01:15:01,520 just getting in trouble for not having 1968 01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:02,320 one, 1969 01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:03,920 >> which is more black and white. Does that 1970 01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:04,159 make sense? 1971 01:15:04,159 --> 01:15:05,120 >> Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you for 1972 01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:06,719 clarifying. I have a couple more 1973 01:15:06,719 --> 01:15:10,719 questions. Um, so 1974 01:15:10,719 --> 01:15:13,360 actually a comment just there's a 1975 01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:15,040 discrepancy on the email address in the 1976 01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:17,199 packet. We misspelled accessibility. 1977 01:15:17,199 --> 01:15:20,320 It's spelled with an A, not an I. Just 1978 01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:21,920 as a something to clean up before we 1979 01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:24,000 finalize and send the plan. Also had a 1980 01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:26,480 question about seemingly a couple number 1981 01:15:26,480 --> 01:15:30,000 discrepancies that I noticed. Um on page 1982 01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:33,920 11 of the plan 85 packet 1983 01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:37,520 it says there are um 1984 01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:39,360 uh 1985 01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,600 321 1986 01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:44,400 so sorry 3,121 meet current ADA 1987 01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:45,920 accessibility standards and then just 1988 01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:50,080 under cuss cost summary it says 3,393 1989 01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:51,679 met ADA accessibility requirements. So, 1990 01:15:51,679 --> 01:15:53,679 I didn't really understand why there was 1991 01:15:53,679 --> 01:15:55,040 that discrepancy. And then there's a 1992 01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:56,480 similar discrepancy with the total 1993 01:15:56,480 --> 01:15:59,520 number of ramps. 1994 01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:02,400 >> I see that 1995 01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,080 um it may just have been updated at 1996 01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:06,320 different times um as we've gone through 1997 01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:08,400 and identified additional locations. We 1998 01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:10,080 may not have just carried those numbers 1999 01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:10,640 through. 2000 01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:12,239 >> Okay. Well, I'd encourage us to be 2001 01:16:12,239 --> 01:16:14,480 consistent before we finalize this. And 2002 01:16:14,480 --> 01:16:16,000 then the other thing that I was going to 2003 01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:17,920 point out is it says there's no fiscal 2004 01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:19,760 impact but yet it commits us to a 2005 01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:21,760 certain uh spending requirement all 2006 01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:23,840 this. So I'm I'm wondering why it says 2007 01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:25,440 that. Is it because essentially we've 2008 01:16:25,440 --> 01:16:26,960 already appropriated these monies in 2009 01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:28,640 other areas and so there's no net 2010 01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:30,159 marginal incremental. Could you just 2011 01:16:30,159 --> 01:16:32,640 explain that a little bit? Um, right. I 2012 01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:35,120 because at least for public works, what 2013 01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:36,480 I'm showing here with domain and 2014 01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:39,120 schedule, um, because those have already 2015 01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:40,480 been appropriated, they're not 2016 01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:42,239 increasing any funds. Like this plan's 2017 01:16:42,239 --> 01:16:45,440 not, um, requesting funds for at least 2018 01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:47,120 public works or anything like that, 2019 01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:48,800 right? We're just saying, hey, with the 2020 01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:50,560 funds that have been allocated for this 2021 01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:54,239 area of um, ADA compliance, 2022 01:16:54,239 --> 01:16:56,320 this is what we're planning on doing. So 2023 01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:58,159 there isn't any impact necessarily 2024 01:16:58,159 --> 01:17:00,239 additionally than what RER is 2025 01:17:00,239 --> 01:17:01,120 established. 2026 01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:05,520 >> Okay, that makes sense. Thank you. 2027 01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:06,560 >> Okay. [clears throat] 2028 01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:08,800 I I had the same reaction that Katrice 2029 01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:11,280 did. I felt very overwhelmed at first at 2030 01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:14,480 the enormity of cost and the number of 2031 01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:18,239 projects. Um but also where ADA was 2032 01:17:18,239 --> 01:17:21,280 enacted in 1990 and then amended in 2033 01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:22,880 2009. 2034 01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:25,600 Um I was confused about but I think 2035 01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,239 Brian has clarified 2036 01:17:28,239 --> 01:17:32,320 the direction is that we have a plan not 2037 01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:34,480 that they be completed within it just 2038 01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:36,320 has to be a reasonable plan. So we've 2039 01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:39,520 had a plan right this isn't a new plan. 2040 01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:41,760 This is formalizing this is this is 2041 01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:44,640 taking a formal step to we we've you 2042 01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:46,640 know public works and parks both have 2043 01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:48,480 been working not only on these plans but 2044 01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:50,400 actually working off of them for quite 2045 01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:54,560 some time. We're formalizing that this 2046 01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:57,040 is the citywide plan and then we're 2047 01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:00,400 gonna actually update it. So, this isn't 2048 01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:02,159 the intended to be the end of the 2049 01:18:02,159 --> 01:18:03,679 process. This is a 2050 01:18:03,679 --> 01:18:06,080 >> we're we're setting what the base level 2051 01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:07,840 is so that we can work on those. 2052 01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,080 >> We'll see. Great. Thank you, Brian. Any 2053 01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:12,400 other questions? 2054 01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:15,199 So, Gary, I do know this is true because 2055 01:18:15,199 --> 01:18:17,840 when we raised money 2056 01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,960 for um the neighborhood program project 2057 01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:24,000 that I did for the Lakewood Park, I had 2058 01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:25,840 them move our playground equipment 2059 01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:27,600 because it was underneath the high 2060 01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:28,960 voltage power lines that was making the 2061 01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:31,120 kids get kids skin vibrate. It was just 2062 01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:31,920 awful. 2063 01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,000 >> And when we did that, part of the 2064 01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:37,760 expense had to be must have to be we had 2065 01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:40,159 to have ADA access to the play. 2066 01:18:40,159 --> 01:18:42,159 >> Interesting. So, and this was back in 2067 01:18:42,159 --> 01:18:45,679 like 17. So, parks has been working on 2068 01:18:45,679 --> 01:18:47,600 this. I do know that they've been 2069 01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:49,040 working on it because when they redid 2070 01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:50,719 Fifth West, when they put it through all 2071 01:18:50,719 --> 01:18:52,719 the way to the Parkway, there was a 2072 01:18:52,719 --> 01:18:54,719 bunch of ADA ramps added at that point 2073 01:18:54,719 --> 01:18:55,840 in time. 2074 01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:56,480 >> Okay. 2075 01:18:56,480 --> 01:18:58,480 >> And then a bunch of residents saw that 2076 01:18:58,480 --> 01:19:00,080 and got together and said, "Okay, how 2077 01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:01,920 much will it cost us for sidewalk?" And 2078 01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:03,360 the city paired with them to put 2079 01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:04,880 sidewalk in front of their homes. So, 2080 01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:06,960 this has been worked on at least for the 2081 01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:08,159 last 2082 01:19:08,159 --> 01:19:08,960 >> 94. 2083 01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:10,560 >> Yes, Mayor Jkins. Thank you, Becky. 2084 01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:12,960 >> Yes. And but every department has to 2085 01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:14,320 have 2086 01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:14,800 >> Oh, 2087 01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:18,000 >> so it's not just parks, public works, 2088 01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:21,040 but every department needs to contribute 2089 01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:24,080 to this plan. So maybe they have plans, 2090 01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:25,440 maybe they don't. 2091 01:19:25,440 --> 01:19:29,750 >> Yeah. Okay. 2092 01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:32,000 » But we definitely have a lot of work to 2093 01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:35,120 do to actually [clears throat] 2094 01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:37,360 >> Okay. Thank you, Mayor, and thank you 2095 01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:38,880 again, David, for your presentation. 2096 01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:41,600 This is on our agenda for tonight. Okay. 2097 01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:44,960 >> So, thank you. All right. Next, we have 2098 01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:50,630 a um if I assume Cody's nearby. 2099 01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:52,960 If not, we'll take a break. 2100 01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:53,760 >> He's right here. 2101 01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:55,440 >> Okay. Next, we have a resolution 2102 01:19:55,440 --> 01:20:00,550 approving the appropriation of $14,1711 2103 01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:03,280 in the general fund for a contractual 2104 01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:05,600 sales tax increment post performance 2105 01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:07,679 payment to today's market. presented by 2106 01:20:07,679 --> 01:20:09,920 economic development division director 2107 01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:11,760 Cody Hill. Welcome Cody. 2108 01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:14,320 >> Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you 2109 01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:16,400 all for your time. 2110 01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:21,199 >> Yeah. So, we have a um a budget request 2111 01:20:21,199 --> 01:20:24,400 for an appropriation for this sales tax 2112 01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:27,840 increment payment. Um, this was back in 2113 01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,800 2019 that the city made this entered 2114 01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:32,080 into this agreement with Days Market 2115 01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:35,040 whereby they would make improvements to 2116 01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:37,840 their store location on Canyon and in 2117 01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:39,840 exchange the city would remit a certain 2118 01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:43,040 amount of um sales tax increment to 2119 01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:46,560 them. Based on our calculations, the 2120 01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:48,480 amount that they are going that are that 2121 01:20:48,480 --> 01:20:51,280 they are able to receive this year is 2122 01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:54,950 $14,1711. 2123 01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:59,040 And in looking at their total, what they 2124 01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:01,600 have acred, it looks like that they will 2125 01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:05,199 meet their $100,000 cap next year um 2126 01:21:05,199 --> 01:21:07,760 after receiving 8,000. And so that would 2127 01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:09,760 be two and a half years early that they 2128 01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:12,080 will have hit their cap. And once they 2129 01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:14,239 do hit their cap, then the agreement 2130 01:21:14,239 --> 01:21:15,920 will have expired. 2131 01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:19,280 >> And when adjusting for inflation, um, so 2132 01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:21,520 the cap amount on this, I'm not sure if 2133 01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:22,880 I have that here. Yeah. So the cap 2134 01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:26,800 amount on this is, um, or sorry, the 2135 01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:29,120 base amount is $39,800. 2136 01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:31,120 When adjusting for inflation, it's about 2137 01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:33,520 51,000. And so the difference between 2138 01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:37,120 the 107,000 which is the total generated 2139 01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:39,920 by today's market uh the last 12 months 2140 01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:42,320 and that adjusted for inflation base 2141 01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:45,600 amount it's an increase of 111%. 2142 01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:52,560 So um very considerable increase in the sales tax revenue that day market is 2143 01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:54,719 generating um after having made those 2144 01:21:54,719 --> 01:21:56,480 improvements. 2145 01:21:56,480 --> 01:21:59,679 And this just kind of shows the shows 2146 01:21:59,679 --> 01:22:03,679 the um historic amounts of of sales tax 2147 01:22:03,679 --> 01:22:04,719 revenues that we've received from 2148 01:22:04,719 --> 01:22:07,280 today's market since um this agreement 2149 01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:11,600 began in 2019 to 2020 that that year and 2150 01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:14,480 you definitely see the weird COVID 2151 01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:16,560 happening 2020 when there's a lot less 2152 01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:18,639 revenue 2021 when there's stimulus money 2153 01:22:18,639 --> 01:22:21,199 and everyone got a lot more. Um, but it 2154 01:22:21,199 --> 01:22:23,840 really is tracking at about um 106 2155 01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:27,840 107,000 is is where it's stabilizing. 2156 01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:29,120 And so 2157 01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:31,840 >> questions for Cody. 2158 01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,800 this is one of like four 2159 01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:36,639 arrangements like this that we have in 2160 01:22:36,639 --> 01:22:38,320 the city, right? I guess they come up at 2161 01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:39,679 different times of the year. 2162 01:22:39,679 --> 01:22:40,080 >> Yes. 2163 01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:40,480 >> Okay. 2164 01:22:40,480 --> 01:22:43,120 >> Yeah. So, there are four. This one has 2165 01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:44,960 three years left, but like I said, I 2166 01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,440 anticipate that they will get that um 2167 01:22:47,440 --> 01:22:49,679 $8,000 payment next year and then it 2168 01:22:49,679 --> 01:22:51,280 will sunset and then we'll have three 2169 01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:55,920 left. And then there's also the um two 2170 01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:58,239 other agreements that end in about three 2171 01:22:58,239 --> 01:23:00,639 and then four years. And then Riverwoods 2172 01:23:00,639 --> 01:23:02,159 is the other one and that ends in eight 2173 01:23:02,159 --> 01:23:02,560 years. 2174 01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:02,880 >> Okay. 2175 01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:04,400 >> So, that one will be a long uh a little 2176 01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:06,239 bit longer and they're not looking close 2177 01:23:06,239 --> 01:23:08,320 to hitting their cap amount. So, 2178 01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:10,159 >> and am I remembering that this is that 2179 01:23:10,159 --> 01:23:12,560 tool that has expired that we can no 2180 01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:14,159 longer 2181 01:23:14,159 --> 01:23:15,120 enter into, 2182 01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:15,520 >> right? 2183 01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:15,840 >> Okay. 2184 01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:17,040 >> Yeah. As a city. 2185 01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:17,360 >> Okay. 2186 01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:18,239 >> Correct. 2187 01:23:18,239 --> 01:23:20,080 >> Other questions? 2188 01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:21,120 >> I just have a comment. I think 2189 01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:22,000 >> councelor Ba 2190 01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:24,400 >> I think this shows the love of the 2191 01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,080 northeast side for days market because 2192 01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:27,360 that's amazing. 2193 01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:30,239 >> Yeah. Yeah. 2194 01:23:30,239 --> 01:23:31,679 Councelor Hoben, 2195 01:23:31,679 --> 01:23:35,990 >> it is the best ever. 2196 01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:38,560 See the love of the things, 2197 01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:41,199 >> says the person who lives a mile away. 2198 01:23:41,199 --> 01:23:42,320 Um, 2199 01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:44,480 >> can you help me understand what how do 2200 01:23:44,480 --> 01:23:46,960 we factor in inflation into these 2201 01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,040 calculations? Do we do adjustments for 2202 01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:50,000 inflation 2203 01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:51,600 >> or were you just mentioning that as a 2204 01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:52,080 side note? 2205 01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:54,080 >> It's not part of the agreement. I I I 2206 01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:55,600 provide that as contextual information 2207 01:23:55,600 --> 01:24:00,800 so that you can see how um successful or unsuccessful a business is doing when 2208 01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:02,159 accounting for inflation. 2209 01:24:02,159 --> 01:24:03,760 >> Yeah. 2210 01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:04,719 >> Okay. Thank you. 2211 01:24:04,719 --> 01:24:07,040 >> Yes. Thank you, Cody. This will also be 2212 01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:09,440 on our agenda for tonight. Thank you. 2213 01:24:09,440 --> 01:24:10,560 >> Thank you. 2214 01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:14,080 >> All right. We'll now take a break and 2215 01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:17,440 we'll reconvene at uh in 13 minutes at 2216 01:24:17,440 --> 01:24:21,030 110. 2217 01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:27,510 » Precisely. 2218 01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:30,320 » Recording stopped. Recording in 2219 01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:32,639 progress. 2220 01:24:32,639 --> 01:24:35,653 >> Thank you, Kevin. Okay, we'll we'll 2221 01:24:35,653 --> 01:24:37,199 [clears throat] begin again our work 2222 01:24:37,199 --> 01:24:40,400 session. Our next item number five is an 2223 01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,000 ordinance amending the zone map 2224 01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:44,159 classification of real property 2225 01:24:44,159 --> 01:24:47,040 generally located at 1804 North Geneva 2226 01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:49,679 Road from one family residential zone to 2227 01:24:49,679 --> 01:24:54,080 the SDA or specific development plan in 2228 01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:57,440 the Lake View Fields area zone in the 2229 01:24:57,440 --> 01:24:59,360 Lake View North neighborhood. Presented 2230 01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:01,600 by city planner Dustin Wright. 2231 01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:03,360 >> Welcome Dustin. Yeah, thank you very 2232 01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:06,159 much. So, take a look here. This is the 2233 01:25:06,159 --> 01:25:08,800 property that the applicant is uh asking 2234 01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:11,679 to be reszoned. It's just off a Geneva 2235 01:25:11,679 --> 01:25:13,840 Road there. It's about a 10 acre parcel 2236 01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:17,440 of land. And 2237 01:25:17,440 --> 01:25:19,520 here's the proposal they're looking to 2238 01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:21,600 do. Highlighted here in red is their 2239 01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:24,719 property. Um so, it's a single family 2240 01:25:24,719 --> 01:25:30,639 residential proposal there. about 33 34 2241 01:25:30,639 --> 01:25:34,400 um lots. And as you can see the there's 2242 01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:37,679 a property in between that'll be coming 2243 01:25:37,679 --> 01:25:40,560 uh before you in the near future as well 2244 01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:45,040 for the same uh reszone. And then um 2245 01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:46,800 just on the north there that uh 2246 01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:49,840 subdivision that's been in um all this 2247 01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:54,639 is is part of the um 2248 01:25:54,639 --> 01:25:57,280 so I don't know what happened there. 2249 01:25:57,280 --> 01:25:59,199 right there. So, you can see over there 2250 01:25:59,199 --> 01:26:00,880 on the right hand side, that's our 2251 01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:03,280 general plan map. There's an appendix uh 2252 01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:06,239 for the Lake View Fields 2253 01:26:06,239 --> 01:26:10,239 um area um plan. So, so this will kind 2254 01:26:10,239 --> 01:26:12,239 of it follows a little bit of a 2255 01:26:12,239 --> 01:26:13,840 different uh street layout, but it's 2256 01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:15,840 still that same single family 2257 01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:19,840 residential lots. And so, um this is 2258 01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:24,560 what they're looking to um amend to and planning commission's forward. 2259 01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:26,880 positive recommendation to you. Are 2260 01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:29,520 there any questions for me on this one? 2261 01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:32,239 >> So, Dustin, the um I know the planning 2262 01:26:32,239 --> 01:26:34,480 commission 2263 01:26:34,480 --> 01:26:37,760 had recommended approval 2264 01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:39,840 um with the condition that some could 2265 01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:41,440 you go back to the previous drawing that 2266 01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:43,920 some path in be included or what what 2267 01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:47,040 was that? Yeah, I think um so if you can 2268 01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:48,560 see 2269 01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:50,239 here, there's a 2270 01:26:50,239 --> 01:26:54,719 >> there was going to be a stub road to the maze property below. 2271 01:26:54,719 --> 01:26:55,280 >> Uhu. 2272 01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:59,280 >> Um the the maze don't want that stub 2273 01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:03,440 there. So um they're looking to to get 2274 01:27:03,440 --> 01:27:05,040 rid of that stub. I think the planning 2275 01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:07,840 commission was uh describing having a a 2276 01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:09,280 pedestrian 2277 01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:10,480 >> connection. I don't think 2278 01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:13,440 >> pedestrian instead of a road. 2279 01:27:13,440 --> 01:27:15,199 >> Yeah. And I don't think it was going to 2280 01:27:15,199 --> 01:27:17,920 be here. I think originally there was 2281 01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:19,679 another step road coming to the church 2282 01:27:19,679 --> 01:27:20,639 property there. 2283 01:27:20,639 --> 01:27:21,199 >> Okay. 2284 01:27:21,199 --> 01:27:23,120 >> Um so if a church were to go in there, 2285 01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:25,040 then then maybe that would make sense to 2286 01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:26,960 have a pedestrian connection. 2287 01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:27,280 >> Okay. 2288 01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:28,080 >> To that. So 2289 01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:29,840 >> church took it out. 2290 01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:31,280 >> Councelor Bogden, 2291 01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:32,960 >> the church is out. They took it out, 2292 01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:34,320 right? And I don't think Ben would 2293 01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:37,199 appreciate a I know Ben. I don't think 2294 01:27:37,199 --> 01:27:38,639 he'd appreciate a walkway if he doesn't 2295 01:27:38,639 --> 01:27:41,120 want a stubbed road. Now, I haven't 2296 01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:42,960 asked him for sure, but I don't think 2297 01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:44,960 he'd appreciate people on his property. 2298 01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:47,120 So, he owns the property just right up 2299 01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:48,880 against this, and his brother owns the 2300 01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:54,320 one just right below it. Right. So, who did the 2301 01:27:54,320 --> 01:27:55,840 um drawing, the rendering? That's 2302 01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:57,520 probably one before that has Ben's 2303 01:27:57,520 --> 01:27:59,280 property and his brother's property in 2304 01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:00,880 that. 2305 01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:04,800 Is that just what it could be? 2306 01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:07,280 >> Yeah, that one. Who did that one? So 2307 01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:08,880 that's part of the appendix in the 2308 01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:11,199 general plans that was done when that uh 2309 01:28:11,199 --> 01:28:17,840 was created the SDP4 zone. Um 2310 01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:20,400 >> do the owners know that this was done on 2311 01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:23,040 top of their property? 2312 01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:25,440 >> Yes, that was done years ago when the 2313 01:28:25,440 --> 01:28:27,040 general plan appendix was put in there 2314 01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:29,280 and it was just trying to more convey 2315 01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:31,840 housing densities and lot types rather 2316 01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:34,639 than actual road configuration. 2317 01:28:34,639 --> 01:28:35,920 So [snorts] we think it's very 2318 01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:38,000 consistent with that because the lot 2319 01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:41,040 sizes are what we were looking for. In 2320 01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:42,800 fact, this is better than what we've 2321 01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:44,239 been getting in recent subdivisions. 2322 01:28:44,239 --> 01:28:46,719 These are 8 to 10,000 square foot lots. 2323 01:28:46,719 --> 01:28:48,960 You know how many 6,000 square foot lots 2324 01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:51,840 we've been getting lately. So that feels 2325 01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:53,520 good that they're following the intent 2326 01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:57,679 of that map and the plan. So, the SD4 2327 01:28:57,679 --> 01:29:00,960 zone is these 8,500 foot lots because I 2328 01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:02,960 know when I did discuss it with the 2329 01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:05,360 neighbors, they weren't happy, but they 2330 01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:08,000 were okay that because they they say 2331 01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:10,159 they've always told me for the last 10 2332 01:29:10,159 --> 01:29:12,400 years that they have an understanding 2333 01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:16,239 that they should have like the R120 cat. 2334 01:29:16,239 --> 01:29:21,760 And so this was acceptable to themish 2335 01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:23,440 as long as it doesn't go below that 2336 01:29:23,440 --> 01:29:24,960 8,500T 2337 01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:28,320 lot. It so that's in stone. It wouldn't 2338 01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:31,760 go to 6,000 or 7,000 foot less. 2339 01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:34,000 >> Yeah, that's that's the minimum in that 2340 01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:36,400 uh SDP4 zone that they're requesting. So 2341 01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:37,840 if they wanted to go below that, they'd 2342 01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:40,400 have to come back and reszone it to R16. 2343 01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:41,840 >> And the church has been gone for years. 2344 01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:43,040 There's no church there on the corner. 2345 01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:44,239 The church owns the property, but 2346 01:29:44,239 --> 01:29:47,760 there's no church on the corner. Um, so 2347 01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:49,199 >> they still own the property. 2348 01:29:49,199 --> 01:29:51,679 >> I if it has church and I believe they 2349 01:29:51,679 --> 01:29:54,080 do. We can look at Do we can we do a 2350 01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:57,920 quick partial look up? 2351 01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:00,159 >> Is going to do a quick partial just 2352 01:30:00,159 --> 01:30:03,189 saying 2353 01:30:03,199 --> 01:30:05,120 » if there should be a church there in the 2354 01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:07,840 future, a walk away would make sense. 2355 01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:08,880 >> I don't know that there will because 2356 01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:12,480 they took one out, right? Um, so I'm 2357 01:30:12,480 --> 01:30:14,239 okay with not having a stubbed off road 2358 01:30:14,239 --> 01:30:16,960 and I'm okay with not having a walkway. 2359 01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:19,440 I I think if Ben is okay not having a 2360 01:30:19,440 --> 01:30:21,679 stepped off road, he's okay not having I 2361 01:30:21,679 --> 01:30:22,880 wouldn't want people on my property 2362 01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:24,320 trespassing because there's a walkway, 2363 01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:29,120 which is going to enhance, right? 2364 01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:31,600 >> Thank you, councelor Bogden. Um, other 2365 01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:34,159 questions for Dustin. And I'll mention 2366 01:30:34,159 --> 01:30:35,760 that we've been joined online by 2367 01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:38,320 councelor Craig Christensen as well. 2368 01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:43,910 Other questions for Dustin? 2369 01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:45,520 Okay. Thank you, Dustin. We'll see you 2370 01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:47,199 tonight. This is on our agenda for 2371 01:30:47,199 --> 01:30:48,239 tonight. 2372 01:30:48,239 --> 01:30:51,910 >> Thank you. 2373 01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:54,400 Next, we have an ordinance amending the 2374 01:30:54,400 --> 01:30:56,800 zone map classification of real property 2375 01:30:56,800 --> 01:31:01,280 generally located at 313 East 200 North 2376 01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:03,760 from residential conservation, the RC 2377 01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:06,960 zone to a highdensity residential zone 2378 01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:08,480 in the walking neighborhood. Also 2379 01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:14,070 presented by Dustin. 2380 01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:16,000 So, yeah, here's this property. It's a 2381 01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:17,520 halfacre, 2382 01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:20,159 two parcels. The applicant is looking to 2383 01:31:20,159 --> 01:31:22,639 demolish those uh home, single family 2384 01:31:22,639 --> 01:31:26,400 home and a triplex and build a a 12unit 2385 01:31:26,400 --> 01:31:28,800 town home project here in the Wala 2386 01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:30,960 neighborhood. 2387 01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:32,639 Uh so it's currently zoned in the 2388 01:31:32,639 --> 01:31:36,080 residential conservation or RC zone. Uh 2389 01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:38,000 so that zone doesn't allow new lots or 2390 01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:40,719 parcels to be created. Uh so that's why 2391 01:31:40,719 --> 01:31:43,040 they're going through a reszone uh 2392 01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:46,639 process to um ask for the highdensity 2393 01:31:46,639 --> 01:31:51,760 residential zone, the HDR zone. Um 2394 01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:53,760 and here's their density. They're 2395 01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:57,520 proposing 27 units, and that zone allows 2396 01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:00,239 up to 50 units per acre. 2397 01:32:00,239 --> 01:32:02,960 Um, so years ago, part of our general 2398 01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:05,679 plan, um, we have a a neighborhood 2399 01:32:05,679 --> 01:32:08,560 specific plan for the Walke neighborhood 2400 01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:12,080 and the future land use map here is is 2401 01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:14,239 part of that plan. I'll just kind of 2402 01:32:14,239 --> 01:32:16,800 orient you here. So, here's the the 2403 01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:18,639 property that the applicants requesting 2404 01:32:18,639 --> 01:32:20,320 the reszone on. It's [clears throat] 2405 01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:23,040 down in that yellow area in the plan in 2406 01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:27,040 the WE plan. So that area is designated 2407 01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:30,800 as something that would remain as um 2408 01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:32,880 residential conservation. So they're 2409 01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:34,560 trying to preserve the single family 2410 01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:37,679 homes uh in that historic Pioneer 2411 01:32:37,679 --> 01:32:40,320 neighborhood there. And then the plan 2412 01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:43,679 was to put higher density 2413 01:32:43,679 --> 01:32:46,400 um near the the northern portion of the 2414 01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:48,719 neighborhood close to to Brigham Young 2415 01:32:48,719 --> 01:32:50,480 University's campus so that it's more of 2416 01:32:50,480 --> 01:32:54,719 a walkable uh student oriented um 2417 01:32:54,719 --> 01:32:57,920 location there. So, so that's why that 2418 01:32:57,920 --> 01:33:00,159 uh plan was kind of developed that way 2419 01:33:00,159 --> 01:33:02,480 to take development pressure off of the 2420 01:33:02,480 --> 01:33:04,080 rest of the neighborhood where where 2421 01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:06,239 these single family homes were getting a 2422 01:33:06,239 --> 01:33:08,960 lot of pressure to be um become student 2423 01:33:08,960 --> 01:33:11,679 housing and and uh lose that character 2424 01:33:11,679 --> 01:33:13,920 that's there. of the neighborhood, you 2425 01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:15,520 know, worked with staff and stakeholders 2426 01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:19,040 to create this plan to to help protect 2427 01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:21,600 um the neighborhood from that and to to 2428 01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:24,239 still allow for highdensity uh housing 2429 01:33:24,239 --> 01:33:26,239 to come into this to the neighborhood, 2430 01:33:26,239 --> 01:33:28,239 but to put it in the location that makes 2431 01:33:28,239 --> 01:33:30,480 the most sense there. So, it's kind of 2432 01:33:30,480 --> 01:33:34,159 an overview on 2433 01:33:34,159 --> 01:33:37,440 that. And then here is kind of a concept 2434 01:33:37,440 --> 01:33:39,120 of what they're proposing for those town 2435 01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:43,360 homes. to be 12 12 units. Uh 2436 01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:47,669 there and 2437 01:33:47,679 --> 01:33:50,400 some elevations here as well just shown 2438 01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:52,639 um 2439 01:33:52,639 --> 01:33:56,480 shown that. But anyway, 2440 01:33:56,480 --> 01:33:59,600 there they are. So, three stories, 2441 01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:04,320 parking on the main level, and then the living space above. So, any 2442 01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:09,910 questions on this one? 2443 01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:13,280 Yeah. No, sir. 2444 01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:17,360 >> Uh, yeah. I'm I'm curious. 2445 01:34:17,360 --> 01:34:18,719 I apologize if I if this was in the 2446 01:34:18,719 --> 01:34:20,400 packet, I missed it, but this home is 2447 01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:23,840 How old is this home again? It's like 2448 01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:25,679 It's quite old. Is it not correct? 2449 01:34:25,679 --> 01:34:26,719 >> 1906 or something. 2450 01:34:26,719 --> 01:34:31,920 >> 1906. Is there not like a historic uh 2451 01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:35,040 >> Yeah. designation in that area? Um, so 2452 01:34:35,040 --> 01:34:37,679 it is in the uh East Central Historic 2453 01:34:37,679 --> 01:34:39,600 District. Um, but that's a 2454 01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:41,120 >> but individual homeowners have to apply 2455 01:34:41,120 --> 01:34:42,800 to be part of it. 2456 01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:44,719 >> Um, so there so the the whole 2457 01:34:44,719 --> 01:34:47,520 neighborhood is part of the district. 2458 01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:49,920 Um, but it's an honorary district. It's 2459 01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:52,080 not protected by our landmarks chapter. 2460 01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:53,679 So they'd have to be on our landmarks 2461 01:34:53,679 --> 01:34:54,880 register. Got it. 2462 01:34:54,880 --> 01:34:56,960 >> The proy landmarks register for it to be 2463 01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:00,080 protected. So, um, while it's in a 2464 01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:02,320 historic district, it's not, uh, 2465 01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:04,480 protected from, 2466 01:35:04,480 --> 01:35:06,719 um, 2467 01:35:06,719 --> 01:35:07,440 being 2468 01:35:07,440 --> 01:35:08,239 >> redeveloped. 2469 01:35:08,239 --> 01:35:09,760 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you 2470 01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:11,040 for helping me understand that. 2471 01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:12,080 >> Hey, Gary. 2472 01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:14,159 >> Yes. Go ahead, Councelor Christensen. 2473 01:35:14,159 --> 01:35:16,320 >> So, just a quick question. Uh, Dustin, 2474 01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:18,239 how long ago was this plan put into 2475 01:35:18,239 --> 01:35:20,239 place? 2476 01:35:20,239 --> 01:35:21,840 >> Uh, the neighborhood plan, 2477 01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:24,639 >> the neighborhood plan was probably 2478 01:35:24,639 --> 01:35:27,199 2014. 2479 01:35:27,199 --> 01:35:30,320 I think 2000 right after 2480 01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:32,080 >> South Campus area master plan. 2481 01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:33,920 >> Yeah. The the Walke neighborhood plan 2482 01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:36,000 was uh 2014. 2483 01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:36,480 >> Okay. 2484 01:35:36,480 --> 01:35:38,560 >> Right in there. So 2485 01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:40,239 >> we got 2486 01:35:40,239 --> 01:35:46,950 >> Okay. Thank you. 2487 01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:58,310 » Councelor McCay. 2488 01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:00,400 Katrice, are you there? 2489 01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:02,639 >> So, my question is, they've only 2490 01:36:02,639 --> 01:36:07,600 profered one year of owner occupancy. 2491 01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:09,840 >> Um, they profered a year at planning 2492 01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:11,760 commission. I think she mentioned she'd 2493 01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:13,760 be comfortable with bumping that to two 2494 01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:17,280 years um as a deed restriction for for 2495 01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:20,560 those 12 units to be owner occupied. 2496 01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:21,760 Um, 2497 01:36:21,760 --> 01:36:24,960 >> okay. Without it being perpetually owner 2498 01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:27,280 occupied and always ownership with no 2499 01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:30,960 rentals long term forever, I'm not open 2500 01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:35,199 to it because the whole problem is that 2501 01:36:35,199 --> 01:36:38,239 the investors I mean investors are just 2502 01:36:38,239 --> 01:36:39,840 upping all the prices and the only way 2503 01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:42,960 for it to stay more accessible is to be 2504 01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:44,480 owner occupied where the prices aren't 2505 01:36:44,480 --> 01:36:46,719 inflated by investors. 2506 01:36:46,719 --> 01:36:48,880 And um and if we're going to go against 2507 01:36:48,880 --> 01:36:52,320 the neighborhood plan, which was 2508 01:36:52,320 --> 01:36:54,719 put in very seriously with a lot of time 2509 01:36:54,719 --> 01:36:56,239 and consideration, and people are very 2510 01:36:56,239 --> 01:36:57,920 invested in it, I'm not willing to 2511 01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:00,960 change anything without making it better 2512 01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:03,520 all around, which I believe only owner 2513 01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:05,119 occupancy 2514 01:37:05,119 --> 01:37:11,590 in perpetuity achieve that. 2515 01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:13,600 So Justin, that was the extent to which 2516 01:37:13,600 --> 01:37:15,280 they were willing to offer go from one 2517 01:37:15,280 --> 01:37:16,960 year to two years. There was no talk 2518 01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:20,080 about perpetuity for owner occupancy. 2519 01:37:20,080 --> 01:37:22,239 >> Um, not that I recall. I think she 2520 01:37:22,239 --> 01:37:23,600 mentioned that, but that could be 2521 01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:25,119 something you could discuss with her. 2522 01:37:25,119 --> 01:37:28,080 Okay. Tonight, um, the other thing to 2523 01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:29,920 mention is they did talk about a 2524 01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:33,600 development agreement to cap the uh, 2525 01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:37,199 density um because the HDR zone that 2526 01:37:37,199 --> 01:37:38,880 they're requesting allows up to 50 and 2527 01:37:38,880 --> 01:37:40,080 they were 2528 01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:42,800 >> um, at 27, I think. So 2529 01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:44,639 >> that and the building height, they're 2530 01:37:44,639 --> 01:37:46,080 willing to put those into a development 2531 01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:47,119 agreement as well. 2532 01:37:47,119 --> 01:37:49,119 >> So what's medium density? 2533 01:37:49,119 --> 01:37:52,400 >> Uh 30 units. Yeah. And the reason that 2534 01:37:52,400 --> 01:37:55,360 they're asking for HDR as opposed to MDR 2535 01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:58,639 or medium density residential um was 2536 01:37:58,639 --> 01:38:01,199 mostly for the setbacks so that they can 2537 01:38:01,199 --> 01:38:03,440 get this project to fit on that side. 2538 01:38:03,440 --> 01:38:06,719 >> I see. Okay. Councelor Whitlock. 2539 01:38:06,719 --> 01:38:11,760 So uh in this packet um it says that 2540 01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:13,199 engineering review comment for this 2541 01:38:13,199 --> 01:38:14,960 development reads our existing utilities 2542 01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:18,560 cannot handle proposed HTR development. 2543 01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:23,040 My question is is this yeah it's it's is 2544 01:38:23,040 --> 01:38:25,119 it unusual for us to be asked to grant a 2545 01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:27,760 zone change before we know whether the 2546 01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:29,440 site can be served and how or am I 2547 01:38:29,440 --> 01:38:31,440 misunderstanding the packet? 2548 01:38:31,440 --> 01:38:34,159 >> Yeah. So when when we create these u 2549 01:38:34,159 --> 01:38:37,280 general plans, the um public works is 2550 01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:39,520 looking at those as far as um making 2551 01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:41,600 sure they have capacity to to meet the 2552 01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:44,639 needs of that plan. Um and so where this 2553 01:38:44,639 --> 01:38:46,320 plan doesn't show higher density going 2554 01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:50,960 in that area, they haven't planned and prepared for that. So I think that's 2555 01:38:50,960 --> 01:38:52,800 where that comment's coming. So it's not 2556 01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:54,719 saying that this particular project will 2557 01:38:54,719 --> 01:38:56,719 create problems. It's saying that if 2558 01:38:56,719 --> 01:38:58,159 this project creates a precedence for 2559 01:38:58,159 --> 01:38:59,520 higher density, we will need to then 2560 01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:02,239 plan for additionals infrastructure. 2561 01:39:02,239 --> 01:39:04,960 >> Um, not 100% sure if that's accurate or 2562 01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:07,280 if it's saying that they will have to do 2563 01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:09,600 some upgrading on the site to to make 2564 01:39:09,600 --> 01:39:12,560 that work. 2565 01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:13,840 >> Mayor, 2566 01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:15,760 >> thank you. I don't mean to speak for 2567 01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:17,440 public works, but I've been in some 2568 01:39:17,440 --> 01:39:18,800 meetings that where they've talked about 2569 01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:19,840 different things like this. So, correct 2570 01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:22,320 me if I'm wrong, but um sometimes is 2571 01:39:22,320 --> 01:39:24,800 they have a certain number of sewer 2572 01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:29,920 lines that they are able to approve in a year or something like that and 2573 01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:32,239 they're all approved out. And so then 2574 01:39:32,239 --> 01:39:33,520 when a development comes in and they 2575 01:39:33,520 --> 01:39:35,520 say, "I need this many x amount." 2576 01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:36,719 They're like, "Well, we already have all 2577 01:39:36,719 --> 01:39:39,600 those like we don't have that capacity 2578 01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:42,560 yet." And and so that can be part of it. 2579 01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:44,239 could get public works here so that they 2580 01:39:44,239 --> 01:39:45,679 can answer these questions if you want 2581 01:39:45,679 --> 01:39:47,199 to because I don't want to just kind of 2582 01:39:47,199 --> 01:39:49,920 guess what it might be unless you have a 2583 01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:50,400 better 2584 01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:52,159 >> I agree with Jeff. Yes, that needs to be 2585 01:39:52,159 --> 01:39:53,760 addressed before we can make a decision. 2586 01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:53,840 Do 2587 01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:54,800 >> you want me to get 2588 01:39:54,800 --> 01:39:56,719 >> No, I think that's uh that's a good 2589 01:39:56,719 --> 01:39:59,040 point. Um it's like I said, yeah, 2590 01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:00,719 they're looking at that that general 2591 01:40:00,719 --> 01:40:02,800 plan and and what they're anticipating 2592 01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:06,480 as what they can cover. Um would they be 2593 01:40:06,480 --> 01:40:08,960 able to cover this? I guess I shouldn't 2594 01:40:08,960 --> 01:40:12,159 speak for him, but um so if we can get 2595 01:40:12,159 --> 01:40:13,920 them to to maybe answer that tonight. 2596 01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:16,080 >> I I have another question. So the 2597 01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:18,480 applicant said that the HDR is needed 2598 01:40:18,480 --> 01:40:20,320 for its setbacks, not necessarily 2599 01:40:20,320 --> 01:40:21,760 density. But it's interesting because 2600 01:40:21,760 --> 01:40:24,000 I've talked to a few residents in this 2601 01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:25,920 area who actually said, I feel like if 2602 01:40:25,920 --> 01:40:27,920 we didn't have these setbacks, then we 2603 01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:30,800 could actually fit in detached smaller 2604 01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:32,159 single family homes like a cottage 2605 01:40:32,159 --> 01:40:33,280 neighborhood or something, which I think 2606 01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:34,880 the neighborhood would be much more 2607 01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:37,119 amendable to. I'm just curious from a 2608 01:40:37,119 --> 01:40:38,560 planning perspective, is the setback 2609 01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:40,159 serving us here? Is it actually harming 2610 01:40:40,159 --> 01:40:43,440 us and giving us a work or worse product 2611 01:40:43,440 --> 01:40:46,159 >> in the HDR zone? 2612 01:40:46,159 --> 01:40:47,520 >> In this area, walking area. 2613 01:40:47,520 --> 01:40:49,280 >> Yeah, probably the walking area. 2614 01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:49,840 >> Um, 2615 01:40:49,840 --> 01:40:51,920 >> in this particular case, because my 2616 01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:53,440 understanding is the reason why 2617 01:40:53,440 --> 01:40:55,119 according to the applicant was saying we 2618 01:40:55,119 --> 01:40:56,560 have to do it like this because the 2619 01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:59,920 setbacks forces us to go more dense. 2620 01:40:59,920 --> 01:41:02,159 >> So the the medium density residential 2621 01:41:02,159 --> 01:41:04,480 setback is 20 ft. So they would have to 2622 01:41:04,480 --> 01:41:06,480 push the building back 20 feet, which 2623 01:41:06,480 --> 01:41:08,719 would then limit how much they'd be able 2624 01:41:08,719 --> 01:41:10,960 to develop on the site and and meet the 2625 01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:13,679 parking requirements. The HDR zone 2626 01:41:13,679 --> 01:41:16,080 allows it to to I think be a 10-ft 2627 01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:18,480 setback. So that gives them that 2628 01:41:18,480 --> 01:41:20,960 flexibility to to be able to fit more on 2629 01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:22,000 the site. 2630 01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:25,920 >> Yeah. My point is if we had a like a 2631 01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:28,000 option to have less setbacks, then you 2632 01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:30,159 could have a viable MBR project here, 2633 01:41:30,159 --> 01:41:31,360 which is what the neighborhood would 2634 01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:32,880 want more. for that not a reasonable 2635 01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:34,159 thing to conclude. 2636 01:41:34,159 --> 01:41:35,760 >> Um I don't know that the neighborhood 2637 01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:37,440 would want that more. We've heard quite 2638 01:41:37,440 --> 01:41:38,000 a bit that 2639 01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:39,280 >> Well, ignore the neighborhood part. 2640 01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:40,719 That's a judgment based on the council. 2641 01:41:40,719 --> 01:41:44,960 I'm just saying like do you think that like from your understanding the 2642 01:41:44,960 --> 01:41:46,480 applicant if they had had smaller 2643 01:41:46,480 --> 01:41:47,760 setbacks that they would have looked at 2644 01:41:47,760 --> 01:41:50,239 another concept potentially 2645 01:41:50,239 --> 01:41:52,159 >> um 2646 01:41:52,159 --> 01:41:54,719 like if the if the medium density zone 2647 01:41:54,719 --> 01:41:56,880 >> say MDR had 10 foot setbacks or 5 foot 2648 01:41:56,880 --> 01:41:58,400 or there was some way there was some way 2649 01:41:58,400 --> 01:41:59,679 like if you meet certain requirements 2650 01:41:59,679 --> 01:42:00,719 there could be an exemption to the 2651 01:42:00,719 --> 01:42:01,920 setback. Yeah. Then they would have 2652 01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:03,520 asked for the medium density at that 2653 01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:05,360 point. It'd still be the same project. 2654 01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:07,440 It just be a different ask. 2655 01:42:07,440 --> 01:42:07,840 >> Okay. 2656 01:42:07,840 --> 01:42:09,280 >> But we'd still end up with that same 2657 01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:12,080 thing. So that's why the um ask is for 2658 01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:14,639 the the high density, but the deed 2659 01:42:14,639 --> 01:42:17,119 restriction would limit the density and 2660 01:42:17,119 --> 01:42:19,679 the height just because the HDR could 2661 01:42:19,679 --> 01:42:20,880 >> because they could actually go a lot 2662 01:42:20,880 --> 01:42:23,040 more dense than this with this zone. 2663 01:42:23,040 --> 01:42:25,119 >> Yeah. If it were reszoned HDR and didn't 2664 01:42:25,119 --> 01:42:26,719 have that, then they could come in with 2665 01:42:26,719 --> 01:42:29,679 a new project plan showing something 2666 01:42:29,679 --> 01:42:31,360 completely different than this concept 2667 01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:32,080 plan. 2668 01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:34,000 >> Thank you. 2669 01:42:34,000 --> 01:42:36,159 Councelor Whitlock. Councelor 2670 01:42:36,159 --> 01:42:38,239 Rachel. 2671 01:42:38,239 --> 01:42:40,639 >> Yes. Um, this is an interesting one 2672 01:42:40,639 --> 01:42:42,880 because this is my area. I've watched 2673 01:42:42,880 --> 01:42:44,880 this project change multiple times over 2674 01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:47,679 the years and it's given me a lot of 2675 01:42:47,679 --> 01:42:49,199 thought about the residential 2676 01:42:49,199 --> 01:42:51,360 conservation zone. 2677 01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:54,800 This zone was put in place what like 25 2678 01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:59,199 26 years ago because of the degregation 2679 01:42:59,199 --> 01:43:01,760 to these historic pioneer neighborhoods 2680 01:43:01,760 --> 01:43:04,560 and it froze everything in place. So we 2681 01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:06,880 have apartments next to duplexes next to 2682 01:43:06,880 --> 01:43:10,159 single family homes. Um, but it leads to 2683 01:43:10,159 --> 01:43:12,880 a lot of confusion for people who are in 2684 01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:15,040 the area because looking at a house, you 2685 01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:17,600 don't know if that house is a duplex or 2686 01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:20,400 a triplex or a single family residence 2687 01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:23,199 and looking up the zoning for it doesn't 2688 01:43:23,199 --> 01:43:25,520 tell you either. It's whatever the use 2689 01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:28,480 was or whatever the use had been legally 2690 01:43:28,480 --> 01:43:31,520 established was at the time that the RC 2691 01:43:31,520 --> 01:43:34,639 zone kind of froze everything in amber. 2692 01:43:34,639 --> 01:43:36,480 But one of the problems we have with the 2693 01:43:36,480 --> 01:43:40,480 RC zone is other than the confusion is 2694 01:43:40,480 --> 01:43:43,920 it doesn't allow for 2695 01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:48,080 new growth or change or creativity. 2696 01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:50,960 People are forced to keep that same 2697 01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:52,960 density for whatever they had. So there 2698 01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:54,960 was one house I think it was like a 2699 01:43:54,960 --> 01:43:58,880 forplex on 200 East terrible derelict 2700 01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:02,000 thing. And somehow the people who bought 2701 01:44:02,000 --> 01:44:03,920 it actually got money to tear it down 2702 01:44:03,920 --> 01:44:07,199 and build in place the exact same number 2703 01:44:07,199 --> 01:44:11,280 of units. But most of the old structures 2704 01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:13,920 that we have in this area, 2705 01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:16,400 the economics don't work to build it 2706 01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:19,199 back with the same density. And so the 2707 01:44:19,199 --> 01:44:24,800 RC zone has increased the dilapidation 2708 01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:27,679 and the lowering quality of the housing 2709 01:44:27,679 --> 01:44:32,080 stock in most of this area. 2710 01:44:32,080 --> 01:44:33,679 Um, 2711 01:44:33,679 --> 01:44:36,320 I think we as a council need to be 2712 01:44:36,320 --> 01:44:40,159 looking at this carefully, how we can 2713 01:44:40,159 --> 01:44:42,400 preserve the character of the 2714 01:44:42,400 --> 01:44:46,080 neighborhood, but allow for 2715 01:44:46,080 --> 01:44:48,960 the use of it to meet the demands of the 2716 01:44:48,960 --> 01:44:51,600 people who are there now, not just the 2717 01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:55,199 people who were there 20 years ago. Um, 2718 01:44:55,199 --> 01:44:59,679 so this project meets some of the needs 2719 01:44:59,679 --> 01:45:03,119 of our constituents. It meets the needs 2720 01:45:03,119 --> 01:45:05,679 for more people to be able to buy a 2721 01:45:05,679 --> 01:45:10,639 home, to invest in a great part of Provo 2722 01:45:10,639 --> 01:45:12,880 where you can bike and walk everywhere. 2723 01:45:12,880 --> 01:45:15,440 You're close to parks and stores. Like, 2724 01:45:15,440 --> 01:45:18,639 this is a really great area. The single 2725 01:45:18,639 --> 01:45:20,560 family homes or the duplexes that are 2726 01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:23,600 being sold in this area are between 400 2727 01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:27,199 and I don't know like 700 $800,000 and 2728 01:45:27,199 --> 01:45:29,920 they need substantial work. This kind of 2729 01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:33,440 project is the only way that 2730 01:45:33,440 --> 01:45:36,080 new buyers entering the market are going 2731 01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:38,239 to be able to buy a home that they don't 2732 01:45:38,239 --> 01:45:40,800 then have to put in another $100,000 of 2733 01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:43,760 repair work. And I appreciate an old 2734 01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:47,840 home. I bought an old home and 2735 01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:50,880 we spend a lot and it seems like we're 2736 01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:53,119 always behind on the projects that we 2737 01:45:53,119 --> 01:45:55,840 need to maintain it because it is old. 2738 01:45:55,840 --> 01:45:58,159 Not everybody is going to make the 2739 01:45:58,159 --> 01:46:00,320 stupid financial decision that we made 2740 01:46:00,320 --> 01:46:04,400 to get an old home. So, 2741 01:46:04,400 --> 01:46:08,400 I like aspects of this project. I like 2742 01:46:08,400 --> 01:46:11,199 that it could increase homeownership in 2743 01:46:11,199 --> 01:46:13,440 this neighborhood, which would be more 2744 01:46:13,440 --> 01:46:17,119 stabilizing for the neighborhood. Um, I 2745 01:46:17,119 --> 01:46:20,320 think that's a lot of the benefit that 2746 01:46:20,320 --> 01:46:22,239 was intended 2747 01:46:22,239 --> 01:46:25,040 with the neighborhood plan, but it does 2748 01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:28,080 it in a way by changing the existing 2749 01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:29,840 structures, which of course goes against 2750 01:46:29,840 --> 01:46:32,080 the neighborhood plan. And so we need to 2751 01:46:32,080 --> 01:46:36,400 be looking at the competing values 2752 01:46:36,400 --> 01:46:38,320 that are there in the plan and they're 2753 01:46:38,320 --> 01:46:41,199 in our general plan for the city which 2754 01:46:41,199 --> 01:46:43,360 is newer than the neighborhood plan and 2755 01:46:43,360 --> 01:46:46,800 in that case supersedes it and think how 2756 01:46:46,800 --> 01:46:49,520 we can best accomplish those things and 2757 01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:55,280 balance these goals. Um the one year um 2758 01:46:55,280 --> 01:46:58,159 prohibition on renting I think is good. 2759 01:46:58,159 --> 01:47:00,960 Two years I think would be better. I 2760 01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:03,600 don't know about perpetual because those 2761 01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:06,880 are again then restrictions on that 2762 01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:09,280 individual owner's property right like 2763 01:47:09,280 --> 01:47:10,960 if there were a restriction on all 2764 01:47:10,960 --> 01:47:15,199 renting would that include for a family 2765 01:47:15,199 --> 01:47:18,080 um going off to do a service mission or 2766 01:47:18,080 --> 01:47:20,320 a sbatical or something where they're 2767 01:47:20,320 --> 01:47:22,880 gone but they're coming back. So that 2768 01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:24,639 would be a thing to think about with 2769 01:47:24,639 --> 01:47:27,520 that perpetual restriction. 2770 01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:30,159 Um, I know there are many people in the 2771 01:47:30,159 --> 01:47:32,480 neighborhood who are opposed to this, 2772 01:47:32,480 --> 01:47:34,320 but I also know that there are many 2773 01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:37,280 people in the neighborhood who really 2774 01:47:37,280 --> 01:47:40,320 want this and projects like this so that 2775 01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:43,119 they can afford to stop renting in the 2776 01:47:43,119 --> 01:47:46,560 neighborhood and buy homes and really 2777 01:47:46,560 --> 01:47:49,040 continue to invest their lives and their 2778 01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:54,629 families in our community. 2779 01:47:54,639 --> 01:47:57,360 » Thank you. Councelor 2780 01:47:57,360 --> 01:48:00,644 Whipple, great comments. Um, 2781 01:48:00,644 --> 01:48:03,350 [clears throat] 2782 01:48:03,360 --> 01:48:05,679 » okay. Um, 2783 01:48:05,679 --> 01:48:07,840 >> okay. Let's have 2784 01:48:07,840 --> 01:48:10,639 >> Okay. So, let's have Gordon answer the 2785 01:48:10,639 --> 01:48:15,669 question relative to 2786 01:48:15,679 --> 01:48:18,159 some of the pipe. So, there's capacity. 2787 01:48:18,159 --> 01:48:20,480 I think we talked to their 2788 01:48:20,480 --> 01:48:22,639 >> a little bit about how much pipe they 2789 01:48:22,639 --> 01:48:24,719 need to do, but it's not in my mind it's 2790 01:48:24,719 --> 01:48:27,280 not significant. 2791 01:48:27,280 --> 01:48:28,400 >> Okay, 2792 01:48:28,400 --> 01:48:31,760 >> they are the developer is the one Gordon 2793 01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:33,199 that's going to upsize the pipes, not 2794 01:48:33,199 --> 01:48:34,560 us. 2795 01:48:34,560 --> 01:48:36,159 >> It's the developer 2796 01:48:36,159 --> 01:48:38,080 >> and then we'll have capacity for sewer 2797 01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:39,679 and water and storm water. 2798 01:48:39,679 --> 01:48:41,840 >> Yes. Yes. 2799 01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:43,360 >> Is it a problem for the rest of the 2800 01:48:43,360 --> 01:48:44,880 neighborhood? 2801 01:48:44,880 --> 01:48:47,520 >> No. No. 2802 01:48:47,520 --> 01:48:50,320 Any questions? 2803 01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:51,040 >> Thanks, Gordon. 2804 01:48:51,040 --> 01:48:53,760 Um, 2805 01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:56,719 >> getting back to your concept of were you 2806 01:48:56,719 --> 01:48:58,480 thinking like an overlay zone for 2807 01:48:58,480 --> 01:49:00,320 something in the walking neighborhood 2808 01:49:00,320 --> 01:49:02,639 that they could have a 20ft step back if 2809 01:49:02,639 --> 01:49:04,239 the neighborhood was more immunable to 2810 01:49:04,239 --> 01:49:06,080 cottage type housing? 2811 01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:08,000 >> Yeah. I I just think when I look at this 2812 01:49:08,000 --> 01:49:09,520 project and from talking to some of the 2813 01:49:09,520 --> 01:49:11,280 neighbors neighbors here, 2814 01:49:11,280 --> 01:49:13,600 >> I I I I I really appreciate a lot of 2815 01:49:13,600 --> 01:49:15,920 what council said, but I think that the 2816 01:49:15,920 --> 01:49:17,440 risk you you look at with a development 2817 01:49:17,440 --> 01:49:19,679 like this, you get investors to buy it, 2818 01:49:19,679 --> 01:49:21,600 you get people who what I've done, which 2819 01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:23,360 is you buy something, you enter in on, 2820 01:49:23,360 --> 01:49:24,719 which is not a bad thing, but I'm just 2821 01:49:24,719 --> 01:49:26,000 saying and then you big buy a bigger 2822 01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:27,440 house and you hold on behind it and then 2823 01:49:27,440 --> 01:49:28,320 you rent it out. 2824 01:49:28,320 --> 01:49:30,560 >> And so I think that's the concern. But 2825 01:49:30,560 --> 01:49:32,800 if they were more cottage neighborhoods, 2826 01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:34,000 single family, detached, they maybe 2827 01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:35,840 could be places where people could could 2828 01:49:35,840 --> 01:49:37,520 live and raise a family. And so again, 2829 01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:38,960 it's like we have a lot of this type of 2830 01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:40,400 structure, like a lot of this type of 2831 01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:43,119 offering in our city. We don't have 2832 01:49:43,119 --> 01:49:44,880 smaller single family detached homes 2833 01:49:44,880 --> 01:49:47,280 that people can afford. And I think I've 2834 01:49:47,280 --> 01:49:48,480 heard the neighbor being more open to 2835 01:49:48,480 --> 01:49:50,800 the ladder than this. That's an 2836 01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:53,440 interesting concept that probably should 2837 01:49:53,440 --> 01:49:54,880 be explored even in the neighborhood 2838 01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:57,760 meetings to see if that's something that neighborhood would do, especially 2839 01:49:57,760 --> 01:50:00,480 where this plan is about 10 years old. 2840 01:50:00,480 --> 01:50:02,480 And we have heard from residents that 2841 01:50:02,480 --> 01:50:04,159 they are moving out because it is 2842 01:50:04,159 --> 01:50:05,679 transitioning to be more and more 2843 01:50:05,679 --> 01:50:09,679 unstable. Um, but I agree with Katrice. 2844 01:50:09,679 --> 01:50:11,199 I wouldn't there's there's a couple of 2845 01:50:11,199 --> 01:50:13,840 things that I find really not okay with 2846 01:50:13,840 --> 01:50:16,560 this and that's home ownership within 2847 01:50:16,560 --> 01:50:20,159 perpetuity because this right here is 2848 01:50:20,159 --> 01:50:22,320 where we're seeing a lot of the rentals 2849 01:50:22,320 --> 01:50:24,480 and that is the reason why we're having 2850 01:50:24,480 --> 01:50:26,480 the neighborhoods pushed back and why 2851 01:50:26,480 --> 01:50:28,960 we're seeing so much of this. The other 2852 01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:31,280 thing I don't like is the MDR zone 2853 01:50:31,280 --> 01:50:34,159 because yes, [clears throat] we can go 2854 01:50:34,159 --> 01:50:35,920 ahead and put that development agreement 2855 01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:37,760 in play, but that expires the day they 2856 01:50:37,760 --> 01:50:39,679 get their certificate of occupancy. So, 2857 01:50:39,679 --> 01:50:41,199 in 10 years from now, they could tear it 2858 01:50:41,199 --> 01:50:42,480 down and build 2859 01:50:42,480 --> 01:50:42,960 >> something 2860 01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:44,480 >> thousands more, and we don't have 2861 01:50:44,480 --> 01:50:47,040 control over that. So, I really I I 2862 01:50:47,040 --> 01:50:49,280 don't like any of I don't like I don't 2863 01:50:49,280 --> 01:50:51,600 like any of it. And I would push back 2864 01:50:51,600 --> 01:50:54,960 and say absolutely not. 2865 01:50:54,960 --> 01:51:05,430 >> Bill Pepperoni has some comments. 2866 01:51:05,440 --> 01:51:11,030 for getting this work. 2867 01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:13,920 Um, the RC zone, I think, accomplished 2868 01:51:13,920 --> 01:51:16,159 some important objectives the city had 2869 01:51:16,159 --> 01:51:19,040 back in 2002, which was to kind of 2870 01:51:19,040 --> 01:51:20,719 freeze things in place and give the city 2871 01:51:20,719 --> 01:51:23,920 a timeout to reevaluate things. A lot of 2872 01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:26,800 the questions that were raised go to 2873 01:51:26,800 --> 01:51:28,800 whether or not it's time to re-evaluate 2874 01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:33,030 those objectives and those goals. 2875 01:51:33,040 --> 01:51:35,520 Um, and that's a valid point. It's now 2876 01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:38,080 24 years past when the RC zone was 2877 01:51:38,080 --> 01:51:38,480 created. 2878 01:51:38,480 --> 01:51:40,560 >> And Bill, can I can I I read a document, 2879 01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:41,679 you can maybe tell me where it says 2880 01:51:41,679 --> 01:51:43,280 this, where when the RC zone was put in 2881 01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:44,400 place, it was actually intended to be 2882 01:51:44,400 --> 01:51:45,920 temporary. It was it basically said 2883 01:51:45,920 --> 01:51:47,760 there was some document I think it's the 2884 01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:49,760 city's plan at the time that said the 2885 01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:52,400 city will re-evaluate and and reszone. 2886 01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:54,159 Is that do you recall that? 2887 01:51:54,159 --> 01:51:54,960 >> I don't. 2888 01:51:54,960 --> 01:51:56,159 >> I'll find it. 2889 01:51:56,159 --> 01:51:57,760 >> Um, 2890 01:51:57,760 --> 01:51:59,679 so I think some important questions have 2891 01:51:59,679 --> 01:52:01,840 been raised in terms of what should we 2892 01:52:01,840 --> 01:52:03,199 reevaluate. 2893 01:52:03,199 --> 01:52:07,119 >> Um, I think though I am respectful of 2894 01:52:07,119 --> 01:52:09,280 the Wii neighborhood who followed the 2895 01:52:09,280 --> 01:52:12,159 Scamp South Kerry campus area master 2896 01:52:12,159 --> 01:52:14,960 plan that basically said north of 500 2897 01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:18,880 North go crazy. That's where density 2898 01:52:18,880 --> 01:52:21,360 belongs, but please help us preserve 2899 01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:23,840 what's south of 500. And those were a 2900 01:52:23,840 --> 01:52:25,520 lot of the comments that came out that 2901 01:52:25,520 --> 01:52:26,960 the planning commission that I'm sure 2902 01:52:26,960 --> 01:52:28,880 you're going to hear again tonight. I 2903 01:52:28,880 --> 01:52:30,400 think it is time for us to take a step 2904 01:52:30,400 --> 01:52:32,080 back and reevaluate some things. The 2905 01:52:32,080 --> 01:52:33,520 neighborhood plan has now been in place 2906 01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:37,280 for over 10 years. Um, but I think doing 2907 01:52:37,280 --> 01:52:39,040 that more strategically rather than spot 2908 01:52:39,040 --> 01:52:42,080 by spot might make more sense. Thank 2909 01:52:42,080 --> 01:52:44,480 you. 2910 01:52:44,480 --> 01:52:45,920 >> Thank you. 2911 01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:49,360 Yes, Councelor Christensen. 2912 01:52:49,360 --> 01:52:52,719 >> Yes, I I would just add um I do not feel 2913 01:52:52,719 --> 01:52:55,840 comfortable moving forward with this um 2914 01:52:55,840 --> 01:52:57,840 without a more holistic approach. I 2915 01:52:57,840 --> 01:53:00,400 really respect the neighborhood's wishes 2916 01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:02,560 and the the plans. I would not want a 2917 01:53:02,560 --> 01:53:04,480 city council coming into my neighborhood 2918 01:53:04,480 --> 01:53:06,239 and changing my plan, even if it's 2919 01:53:06,239 --> 01:53:09,920 newer. I think we owe this neighborhood 2920 01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:12,080 the opportunity to take a much more 2921 01:53:12,080 --> 01:53:16,080 holistic look. So, I I'm not in favor of 2922 01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:18,400 approving this plan. I know it provides 2923 01:53:18,400 --> 01:53:20,400 more housing. That would be good. I 2924 01:53:20,400 --> 01:53:21,679 agree with Becky. I think it's 2925 01:53:21,679 --> 01:53:27,520 problematic when you try and answer the the value of this on the back of 2926 01:53:27,520 --> 01:53:29,840 restricting ownership. I think we're 2927 01:53:29,840 --> 01:53:32,000 missing the bigger picture of I think we 2928 01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:33,520 need a more holistic look at this 2929 01:53:33,520 --> 01:53:35,520 neighborhood. I think Rachel brings up 2930 01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:37,520 some good points. I realize it may be 2931 01:53:37,520 --> 01:53:41,760 outdated, but taking a a spot approach 2932 01:53:41,760 --> 01:53:45,280 to especially high density, I I would I 2933 01:53:45,280 --> 01:53:47,280 don't uh I I I have a hard time 2934 01:53:47,280 --> 01:53:49,119 supporting this given that the 2935 01:53:49,119 --> 01:53:52,239 neighborhood is not behind a plan to 2936 01:53:52,239 --> 01:53:55,599 really address this issue. 2937 01:53:55,599 --> 01:53:57,520 >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Christensen. 2938 01:53:57,520 --> 01:53:59,440 Unless there are any additional 2939 01:53:59,440 --> 01:54:02,400 comments, we'll continue this discussion 2940 01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:04,400 in our council meeting tonight. Thank 2941 01:54:04,400 --> 01:54:06,159 you, Dustin. Thanks. 2942 01:54:06,159 --> 01:54:08,639 >> I would just add really quickly to to 2943 01:54:08,639 --> 01:54:11,840 Becky's point that once the MDR is 2944 01:54:11,840 --> 01:54:15,199 approved, um I think it's very unlikely 2945 01:54:15,199 --> 01:54:17,920 that they would just tear it down 2946 01:54:17,920 --> 01:54:19,360 shortly after that to build something 2947 01:54:19,360 --> 01:54:21,119 with higher density. But even if they 2948 01:54:21,119 --> 01:54:23,679 did, they couldn't build thousands of 2949 01:54:23,679 --> 01:54:26,000 units there, right? I I'm sure that was 2950 01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:27,520 an exaggeration, but I just wanted to 2951 01:54:27,520 --> 01:54:29,040 make sure that the record was clear on 2952 01:54:29,040 --> 01:54:31,280 that. They would be capped at the number 2953 01:54:31,280 --> 01:54:34,480 of units per acre. And if the density is 2954 01:54:34,480 --> 01:54:37,040 what 50 units per acre and it's half an 2955 01:54:37,040 --> 01:54:39,679 acre, then it would be capped at 25 2956 01:54:39,679 --> 01:54:42,800 total units there. So that was all 2957 01:54:42,800 --> 01:54:44,800 >> right, Rachel. But it's it's not a step 2958 01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:47,760 up. A step up would be an MDR or an LDR. 2959 01:54:47,760 --> 01:54:50,000 This is HDR. You're going from 2960 01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:52,800 residential to HDR, 2961 01:54:52,800 --> 01:54:54,880 >> right? I was I was just making it clear 2962 01:54:54,880 --> 01:54:56,800 that it could never be thousands of 2963 01:54:56,800 --> 01:54:59,360 units there. That's all. 2964 01:54:59,360 --> 01:55:01,920 >> Thank you, Rachel. 2965 01:55:01,920 --> 01:55:04,239 We'll move then to item seven, a 2966 01:55:04,239 --> 01:55:06,800 resolution approving an interlocal 2967 01:55:06,800 --> 01:55:08,800 cooperation agreement between Provo City 2968 01:55:08,800 --> 01:55:10,800 and Springville City to share net 2969 01:55:10,800 --> 01:55:13,199 benefits from the Springville Rising 2970 01:55:13,199 --> 01:55:15,280 Development. This will be presented by 2971 01:55:15,280 --> 01:55:17,440 Cody Hill, economic development 2972 01:55:17,440 --> 01:55:22,149 director. 2973 01:55:22,159 --> 01:55:23,360 » Thank you, Council Member Good. Thank 2974 01:55:23,360 --> 01:55:25,679 you, council members. I'm presenting to 2975 01:55:25,679 --> 01:55:28,480 you on a potential interlocal agreement 2976 01:55:28,480 --> 01:55:31,040 between Provo City and Springville City. 2977 01:55:31,040 --> 01:55:32,159 This is in connection with the 2978 01:55:32,159 --> 01:55:34,480 Springville rising development. And 2979 01:55:34,480 --> 01:55:36,639 before I get into it, I just want to say 2980 01:55:36,639 --> 01:55:39,119 I had a legislative committee meeting 2981 01:55:39,119 --> 01:55:41,199 today with Utah cities and towns and we 2982 01:55:41,199 --> 01:55:42,480 talked about economic development 2983 01:55:42,480 --> 01:55:44,400 issues. And a lot of issues we're having 2984 01:55:44,400 --> 01:55:46,159 is with cities competing with each other 2985 01:55:46,159 --> 01:55:49,119 for sales tax dollars. And I I think 2986 01:55:49,119 --> 01:55:51,520 this is something that could be modeled 2987 01:55:51,520 --> 01:55:53,679 in Utah throughout Utah where cities are 2988 01:55:53,679 --> 01:55:55,520 not competing each other and going to 2989 01:55:55,520 --> 01:55:57,760 the lowest. You know, we'll give you the 2990 01:55:57,760 --> 01:55:59,840 most and we'll take the lowest amount to 2991 01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:02,480 get this or that retailer in, but we'll 2992 01:56:02,480 --> 01:56:03,840 cities will collaborate and work 2993 01:56:03,840 --> 01:56:06,960 together and benefit have a shared 2994 01:56:06,960 --> 01:56:08,719 benefit. I think this is a an 2995 01:56:08,719 --> 01:56:10,560 interesting and and good positive 2996 01:56:10,560 --> 01:56:14,400 direction. So, um I understand that 2997 01:56:14,400 --> 01:56:15,520 you're familiar with the Springville 2998 01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:16,960 rising. What they're looking for is a 2999 01:56:16,960 --> 01:56:20,159 reszone of PIC zoning to um some 3000 01:56:20,159 --> 01:56:22,880 residential and some commercial uh to 3001 01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:24,719 enable that development to happen. A 3002 01:56:24,719 --> 01:56:26,159 little bit of background is that Clyde 3003 01:56:26,159 --> 01:56:28,960 Company used to have their headquarters 3004 01:56:28,960 --> 01:56:31,040 and their all of their operations out of 3005 01:56:31,040 --> 01:56:33,679 Springville. They've grown. They've have 3006 01:56:33,679 --> 01:56:36,159 satellites out in other cities, but 3007 01:56:36,159 --> 01:56:37,679 they're looking to consolidate that back 3008 01:56:37,679 --> 01:56:39,280 into Springville, bring their 3009 01:56:39,280 --> 01:56:41,360 headquarters there, and have a big 3010 01:56:41,360 --> 01:56:45,119 development um kind of in line with that 3011 01:56:45,119 --> 01:56:47,040 uh strategic direction that they're 3012 01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:50,239 going. And this is on the very north end 3013 01:56:50,239 --> 01:56:52,960 of Springville, our very south uh 3014 01:56:52,960 --> 01:56:55,360 eastern edge right there, uh is where 3015 01:56:55,360 --> 01:56:59,520 the the development would go. and and so 3016 01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:02,560 because it's on both sides, Springville 3017 01:57:02,560 --> 01:57:04,320 and Provo, and they're looking for us to 3018 01:57:04,320 --> 01:57:08,400 reszone, um about 21 acres that could be 3019 01:57:08,400 --> 01:57:11,440 potentially uh productive in light 3020 01:57:11,440 --> 01:57:13,440 industrial. um they are looking for a 3021 01:57:13,440 --> 01:57:16,560 reason and to I think to help ease the 3022 01:57:16,560 --> 01:57:18,239 potential burden that Provo City might 3023 01:57:18,239 --> 01:57:21,599 face uh to share the net revenues that 3024 01:57:21,599 --> 01:57:23,520 both cities receive from property taxes 3025 01:57:23,520 --> 01:57:27,760 and sales taxes um ac across the borders 3026 01:57:27,760 --> 01:57:30,480 uh with each other. And so yeah, there's 3027 01:57:30,480 --> 01:57:34,320 21.6 acres in Provo City and 8.5 acres 3028 01:57:34,320 --> 01:57:36,560 in Springville City. And you'll see that 3029 01:57:36,560 --> 01:57:38,639 the balance of that development, the 3030 01:57:38,639 --> 01:57:42,719 majority of the commercial is that's 3031 01:57:42,719 --> 01:57:44,320 kind of what their site plan looks like. 3032 01:57:44,320 --> 01:57:46,480 Here's all of the residentials with a 3033 01:57:46,480 --> 01:57:48,960 little bit of retail. And here is um all 3034 01:57:48,960 --> 01:57:51,840 of the the commercial uh elements of 3035 01:57:51,840 --> 01:57:55,040 their uh plan, which you'll get more 3036 01:57:55,040 --> 01:57:57,760 into with the planning aspect of the 3037 01:57:57,760 --> 01:58:01,360 next two items. But um 3038 01:58:01,360 --> 01:58:03,920 the residential components are in Provo. 3039 01:58:03,920 --> 01:58:08,159 So, there's the 167 town homes, 90 condo 3040 01:58:08,159 --> 01:58:10,400 units, uh, that are in Provo with a 3041 01:58:10,400 --> 01:58:11,840 little bit of food and beverage retail, 3042 01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:13,679 about 10,000 square feet, and then that 3043 01:58:13,679 --> 01:58:15,920 majority of the, 3044 01:58:15,920 --> 01:58:19,679 um, the retail and office space is in 3045 01:58:19,679 --> 01:58:22,159 Springville. And so, what we're 3046 01:58:22,159 --> 01:58:23,760 contemplating in this interlocal 3047 01:58:23,760 --> 01:58:26,080 agreement is that the cities will look 3048 01:58:26,080 --> 01:58:29,199 at what the net benefit is to both 3049 01:58:29,199 --> 01:58:30,880 cities. So, we'll look at the sales tax 3050 01:58:30,880 --> 01:58:34,719 that's generated in these uh 21.6 acres, 3051 01:58:34,719 --> 01:58:37,360 and in that 8.5 acres, the sales tax 3052 01:58:37,360 --> 01:58:39,360 that's generated, the property tax 3053 01:58:39,360 --> 01:58:41,679 that's generated, and then we'll look at 3054 01:58:41,679 --> 01:58:43,599 the costs. And then when we're looking 3055 01:58:43,599 --> 01:58:45,520 at the costs, we're just talking about 3056 01:58:45,520 --> 01:58:47,760 the public safety, estimated public 3057 01:58:47,760 --> 01:58:49,280 safety costs, and those numbers were 3058 01:58:49,280 --> 01:58:52,239 pulled from our um business license fee 3059 01:58:52,239 --> 01:58:54,000 study that was just performed last year. 3060 01:58:54,000 --> 01:58:56,159 There are costs embedded into that. So, 3061 01:58:56,159 --> 01:59:00,400 a cost for police, for example, is um 3062 01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:04,400 400 $440 and the cost for fire is 380. 3063 01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:07,440 And so, the assumed additional um burden 3064 01:59:07,440 --> 01:59:09,280 for those. [clears throat] 3065 01:59:09,280 --> 01:59:11,119 And we just looked at public safety 3066 01:59:11,119 --> 01:59:13,520 because that is the majority of of a 3067 01:59:13,520 --> 01:59:16,639 budget item for a city and there's not 3068 01:59:16,639 --> 01:59:18,880 additional revenues associated with a 3069 01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:21,520 fire or a police call. Um whereas 3070 01:59:21,520 --> 01:59:24,400 utilities, water, and electricity, 3071 01:59:24,400 --> 01:59:25,840 you're the more you use, the more you 3072 01:59:25,840 --> 01:59:29,199 pay. And so we're looking at those costs 3073 01:59:29,199 --> 01:59:31,440 um subtracted from the revenues, and 3074 01:59:31,440 --> 01:59:33,840 then whichever city has the higher 3075 01:59:33,840 --> 01:59:36,080 amount of revenue, they would just take 3076 01:59:36,080 --> 01:59:38,480 the difference and and share half of it. 3077 01:59:38,480 --> 01:59:40,800 So both cities end up with the with the 3078 01:59:40,800 --> 01:59:45,040 same benefit from this development. And 3079 01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:46,880 the 3080 01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:49,920 um we Brian and I have emailed 3081 01:59:49,920 --> 01:59:52,000 extensively over the last week about 3082 01:59:52,000 --> 01:59:54,719 this um ironing out some some questions, 3083 01:59:54,719 --> 01:59:57,360 some issues that have come up. Um one of 3084 01:59:57,360 --> 01:59:59,920 them is triggering. When would this uh 3085 01:59:59,920 --> 02:00:02,000 potentially be triggered and it would be 3086 02:00:02,000 --> 02:00:03,440 triggered? And the agreement as it 3087 02:00:03,440 --> 02:00:06,639 stands right now is once 90% of both the 3088 02:00:06,639 --> 02:00:09,840 residential and the commercial uh is 3089 02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:12,080 completed uh that's when the agreement 3090 02:00:12,080 --> 02:00:15,199 would would trigger and begin uh sharing 3091 02:00:15,199 --> 02:00:18,800 revenues and um yeah were there any 3092 02:00:18,800 --> 02:00:20,320 other issues or you wanted to speak to 3093 02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:22,960 Brian? I think that's the only one. You 3094 02:00:22,960 --> 02:00:24,960 know, we So, I guess two issues. I would 3095 02:00:24,960 --> 02:00:27,119 say if you reviewed this over the 3096 02:00:27,119 --> 02:00:29,760 weekend, there was a new one uploaded 3097 02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:32,000 because of the changes that we made. I 3098 02:00:32,000 --> 02:00:33,440 would I don't think any of the changes 3099 02:00:33,440 --> 02:00:35,520 that we made were substantive. It was 3100 02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:39,599 more like clarifying. We put in a a an 3101 02:00:39,599 --> 02:00:42,880 inflationary adjustment table. um we 3102 02:00:42,880 --> 02:00:46,080 clarified the meaning of net income 3103 02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:47,760 versus total revenue and some things 3104 02:00:47,760 --> 02:00:50,400 like so it's all kind of clarification 3105 02:00:50,400 --> 02:00:52,800 stuff the one the one that I had had 3106 02:00:52,800 --> 02:00:54,719 some concerns about that I mentioned to 3107 02:00:54,719 --> 02:00:56,800 Cody was the trigger because they said 3108 02:00:56,800 --> 02:01:00,400 well if the commercial gets 90% built 3109 02:01:00,400 --> 02:01:03,440 and the residential gets 85% built the 3110 02:01:03,440 --> 02:01:05,199 agreement never triggers and we never 3111 02:01:05,199 --> 02:01:06,480 get anything 3112 02:01:06,480 --> 02:01:08,159 >> so that's that's been my biggest concern 3113 02:01:08,159 --> 02:01:11,199 and Cody just forwarded me this uh a 3114 02:01:11,199 --> 02:01:15,199 little bit ago go an email from um from 3115 02:01:15,199 --> 02:01:16,480 Springville. It sounds like they're a 3116 02:01:16,480 --> 02:01:20,080 little bit flexible. So, uh between now 3117 02:01:20,080 --> 02:01:22,159 and tonight, Cody will try to Cody and I 3118 02:01:22,159 --> 02:01:25,280 will try to adjust that a little bit. 3119 02:01:25,280 --> 02:01:26,239 >> Whitlock. Yes. 3120 02:01:26,239 --> 02:01:27,920 >> So, yeah, it's not just that scenario. 3121 02:01:27,920 --> 02:01:29,360 It's a scenario where basically we're 3122 02:01:29,360 --> 02:01:30,800 putting our revenue dependent on their 3123 02:01:30,800 --> 02:01:31,840 leasing market, 3124 02:01:31,840 --> 02:01:33,119 >> but they could build it all, but then 3125 02:01:33,119 --> 02:01:35,199 still not lease the units, right? and 3126 02:01:35,199 --> 02:01:36,960 then we would not get the revenue even 3127 02:01:36,960 --> 02:01:38,480 though our homes were almost certainly 3128 02:01:38,480 --> 02:01:40,639 due to finish our part and take on the 3129 02:01:40,639 --> 02:01:42,800 cost prior to them leasing the 90%. 3130 02:01:42,800 --> 02:01:44,800 >> Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point, too. 3131 02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:46,880 So, I mean, but they seemed Oh, sorry. I 3132 02:01:46,880 --> 02:01:49,520 turned this off. Uh Cody can speak to 3133 02:01:49,520 --> 02:01:50,560 this probably better than I can, but 3134 02:01:50,560 --> 02:01:53,199 they seemed open to us. Wasn't one of 3135 02:01:53,199 --> 02:01:54,400 the proposals even we could just change 3136 02:01:54,400 --> 02:01:55,920 it to as soon as there's a building 3137 02:01:55,920 --> 02:01:57,599 built on each side? They were okay with 3138 02:01:57,599 --> 02:02:00,159 that. So, they seem pretty flexible 3139 02:02:00,159 --> 02:02:01,760 about that. So, that's the one part that 3140 02:02:01,760 --> 02:02:04,480 I would still change before tonight. 3141 02:02:04,480 --> 02:02:05,599 Councelor Bogdan. 3142 02:02:05,599 --> 02:02:08,719 >> So when I read it, it had a sunset date. 3143 02:02:08,719 --> 02:02:11,280 It would expire in like 15 years. That's 3144 02:02:11,280 --> 02:02:12,480 not okay with me. 3145 02:02:12,480 --> 02:02:14,639 >> Okay. That was one of the issues that I 3146 02:02:14,639 --> 02:02:16,400 raised. I asked Cody about it. He asked 3147 02:02:16,400 --> 02:02:17,920 them about it. They said they didn't 3148 02:02:17,920 --> 02:02:19,679 want it to last for longer than that. 3149 02:02:19,679 --> 02:02:21,280 Spring don't convene. So 3150 02:02:21,280 --> 02:02:23,360 >> then they need to then they need to make 3151 02:02:23,360 --> 02:02:25,199 it more fair and they need to put more 3152 02:02:25,199 --> 02:02:27,199 commercial units on our side and more 3153 02:02:27,199 --> 02:02:29,599 housing on their side. If we're going to 3154 02:02:29,599 --> 02:02:30,960 do this sharing, it needs to be in 3155 02:02:30,960 --> 02:02:34,239 perpetuity forever. Not Not that. If if 3156 02:02:34,239 --> 02:02:35,520 so, they need to come back with a new 3157 02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:37,360 plan in my opinion because that's not 3158 02:02:37,360 --> 02:02:39,520 fair on us. The other thing that bothers 3159 02:02:39,520 --> 02:02:41,440 me is the school district and I realize 3160 02:02:41,440 --> 02:02:44,239 that we cannot negotiate for them, but 3161 02:02:44,239 --> 02:02:47,280 we are stuck 3162 02:02:47,280 --> 02:02:50,800 educating all those kids with very 3163 02:02:50,800 --> 02:02:52,800 limited 3164 02:02:52,800 --> 02:02:55,280 property tax values coming our way. 3165 02:02:55,280 --> 02:02:57,679 That's not fair either. So, it would be 3166 02:02:57,679 --> 02:03:01,599 fair in my perspective if the school 3167 02:03:01,599 --> 02:03:04,239 districts collaborated and if we 3168 02:03:04,239 --> 02:03:06,719 collaborated or if they just went ahead 3169 02:03:06,719 --> 02:03:09,840 and just split it 50/50. We get 50% of 3170 02:03:09,840 --> 02:03:12,880 the retail, they get 50% of the the 3171 02:03:12,880 --> 02:03:15,840 homes. 3172 02:03:15,840 --> 02:03:17,655 >> Yeah. And I understand that that is 3173 02:03:17,655 --> 02:03:18,800 [clears throat] that is a concern on 3174 02:03:18,800 --> 02:03:20,239 this the sunset date. They are looking 3175 02:03:20,239 --> 02:03:22,560 for something that's shorter. We can 3176 02:03:22,560 --> 02:03:26,800 absolutely um adopt what you feel is 3177 02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:28,880 best for Provo City and we can take that 3178 02:03:28,880 --> 02:03:31,040 back to them and they can agree or come 3179 02:03:31,040 --> 02:03:32,880 back and try and negotiate. But 3180 02:03:32,880 --> 02:03:35,599 absolutely we want to do what's best. 3181 02:03:35,599 --> 02:03:37,599 >> Is it common to do a sunset on an 3182 02:03:37,599 --> 02:03:40,000 arrangement like this? 3183 02:03:40,000 --> 02:03:44,560 I think in perpetuity going forever is 3184 02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:46,159 probably a little bit ownorous and you 3185 02:03:46,159 --> 02:03:46,960 know you don't know what's going to 3186 02:03:46,960 --> 02:03:50,560 happen there in 50 years and so there 3187 02:03:50,560 --> 02:03:52,159 probably it does probably I think make 3188 02:03:52,159 --> 02:03:53,760 more sense to have a sunset date even if 3189 02:03:53,760 --> 02:03:58,000 it is 50 years versus in perpetuity. So, 3190 02:03:58,000 --> 02:04:00,719 Cody, the um I think one of the 3191 02:04:00,719 --> 02:04:02,239 commissioners I'm sorry, Brian. 3192 02:04:02,239 --> 02:04:04,159 >> Well, I need to double check this now 3193 02:04:04,159 --> 02:04:05,760 that you said that, but when when Cody 3194 02:04:05,760 --> 02:04:08,320 said that, it triggers and I think I 3195 02:04:08,320 --> 02:04:09,760 need to look this up, but I think under 3196 02:04:09,760 --> 02:04:11,440 state code, there's actually a 50-year 3197 02:04:11,440 --> 02:04:12,560 limit on interlocal. 3198 02:04:12,560 --> 02:04:13,920 >> Oh, there is. Okay. 3199 02:04:13,920 --> 02:04:15,760 >> Okay. 50 though, not 15. 3200 02:04:15,760 --> 02:04:16,719 >> Right. 50. 3201 02:04:16,719 --> 02:04:18,719 >> Yeah. But that's that's close to 3202 02:04:18,719 --> 02:04:20,239 probably what is a useful life of a 3203 02:04:20,239 --> 02:04:20,719 development. 3204 02:04:20,719 --> 02:04:21,840 >> That's what I was thinking. 3205 02:04:21,840 --> 02:04:24,400 >> Interesting. Mhm. [clears throat] So, I 3206 02:04:24,400 --> 02:04:25,840 think one of the commissioners raised 3207 02:04:25,840 --> 02:04:29,119 this point, Cody, and a few residents as 3208 02:04:29,119 --> 02:04:31,360 well. This is to Becky's comment about 3209 02:04:31,360 --> 02:04:35,920 the school districts and the impact. Um, 3210 02:04:35,920 --> 02:04:38,800 and what jumps out at you is is why 3211 02:04:38,800 --> 02:04:41,679 Springville wouldn't simply look to have 3212 02:04:41,679 --> 02:04:44,560 this property annexed into their city 3213 02:04:44,560 --> 02:04:47,040 and control the entire Springville 3214 02:04:47,040 --> 02:04:51,280 rising development um, which is 20% in 3215 02:04:51,280 --> 02:04:53,599 Provo. 3216 02:04:53,599 --> 02:04:55,280 What discussions have there been about 3217 02:04:55,280 --> 02:04:58,080 that? 3218 02:04:58,080 --> 02:05:01,750 >> Oh, sorry. 3219 02:05:01,760 --> 02:05:03,920 » I'm sorry. Who's talking? It's Katrice. 3220 02:05:03,920 --> 02:05:04,560 Way more. 3221 02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:05,360 >> Go ahead. 3222 02:05:05,360 --> 02:05:10,629 >> Way more than 20% is in Provo. 3223 02:05:10,639 --> 02:05:12,400 » Isn't it 20% and 10%. 3224 02:05:12,400 --> 02:05:14,239 >> I mean, as far as acreage goes, it's 20 3225 02:05:14,239 --> 02:05:17,760 acres versus 9 acres. So, 3226 02:05:17,760 --> 02:05:19,440 >> you see that red line? That red line 3227 02:05:19,440 --> 02:05:20,480 shows you what's in 3228 02:05:20,480 --> 02:05:24,550 >> We should annex it. 3229 02:05:24,560 --> 02:05:26,080 » Yeah. Exactly. 3230 02:05:26,080 --> 02:05:28,159 >> We should be annexing them. 3231 02:05:28,159 --> 02:05:29,360 >> Yeah. 3232 02:05:29,360 --> 02:05:32,586 >> Okay. the Provo Rising development. 3233 02:05:32,586 --> 02:05:32,800 [laughter] 3234 02:05:32,800 --> 02:05:36,950 >> Yeah. 3235 02:05:36,960 --> 02:05:39,199 » So, did it come up in conversations? 3236 02:05:39,199 --> 02:05:40,880 >> I have not had any conversations with 3237 02:05:40,880 --> 02:05:43,119 that. I think is if Gordon were here, he 3238 02:05:43,119 --> 02:05:45,920 could talk about utilities and and where 3239 02:05:45,920 --> 02:05:47,760 utilities are coming from, where they're 3240 02:05:47,760 --> 02:05:48,719 being supplied. 3241 02:05:48,719 --> 02:05:50,480 >> Okay. Thank you, Cody. 3242 02:05:50,480 --> 02:05:52,080 >> I'm sure that would have a big, you 3243 02:05:52,080 --> 02:05:53,520 know, impact on whether it makes sense 3244 02:05:53,520 --> 02:05:55,199 to annex or not is on who would be 3245 02:05:55,199 --> 02:05:56,639 supplying those utilities, where the 3246 02:05:56,639 --> 02:05:58,480 utilities are closest. Councelor 3247 02:05:58,480 --> 02:06:02,709 Whipple. 3248 02:06:02,719 --> 02:06:05,760 » Yeah, I just had questions about the 3249 02:06:05,760 --> 02:06:09,199 property tax calculations. Um, I would 3250 02:06:09,199 --> 02:06:11,360 imagine that the property tax rates are 3251 02:06:11,360 --> 02:06:13,119 slightly different between Provo and 3252 02:06:13,119 --> 02:06:15,679 Springville. And so the amount of 3253 02:06:15,679 --> 02:06:17,599 property tax revenue we would be getting 3254 02:06:17,599 --> 02:06:18,880 is different than they would be getting 3255 02:06:18,880 --> 02:06:22,000 if it were their property. Um, and I was 3256 02:06:22,000 --> 02:06:24,719 just wondering if Cody had looked into 3257 02:06:24,719 --> 02:06:26,800 that when they were were looking at the 3258 02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:29,360 revenue sharing deal. 3259 02:06:29,360 --> 02:06:31,360 >> Yes. Yeah. So, the the property tax 3260 02:06:31,360 --> 02:06:35,119 rates are based on the actual rates for 3261 02:06:35,119 --> 02:06:36,639 the city of Provo and for the city of 3262 02:06:36,639 --> 02:06:39,199 Springville. Um, right now Springville's 3263 02:06:39,199 --> 02:06:45,350 property tax rate is 0.00179. 3264 02:06:45,360 --> 02:06:50,149 Um, whereas Provos is 0.1678. 3265 02:06:50,159 --> 02:06:52,719 And so Provos is um a [clears throat] 3266 02:06:52,719 --> 02:06:55,440 bit higher than than spring bills. 3267 02:06:55,440 --> 02:06:57,199 >> And is that because we have the library 3268 02:06:57,199 --> 02:06:58,880 component? Like do we have more line 3269 02:06:58,880 --> 02:07:01,599 items in our city property tax portion 3270 02:07:01,599 --> 02:07:03,520 than they have? 3271 02:07:03,520 --> 02:07:04,800 >> I believe so. 3272 02:07:04,800 --> 02:07:07,760 >> Okay. 3273 02:07:07,760 --> 02:07:10,239 Cuz I I liked the the idea of fairness 3274 02:07:10,239 --> 02:07:12,480 that we had, right? Like in a low sales 3275 02:07:12,480 --> 02:07:14,480 tax year but high property tax years, 3276 02:07:14,480 --> 02:07:15,599 you know, we're giving them some of the 3277 02:07:15,599 --> 02:07:17,760 property tax and high sales tax years. 3278 02:07:17,760 --> 02:07:20,480 they give us some to equalize it. In 3279 02:07:20,480 --> 02:07:22,639 principle, I think that sounds really 3280 02:07:22,639 --> 02:07:27,040 good. Um, but we are providing services 3281 02:07:27,040 --> 02:07:30,320 like the library in Provo that that we 3282 02:07:30,320 --> 02:07:32,239 definitely need those property taxes 3283 02:07:32,239 --> 02:07:34,800 for. Um, 3284 02:07:34,800 --> 02:07:38,719 I I think it makes sense to increase the 3285 02:07:38,719 --> 02:07:42,239 agreement period, the sunset to pretty 3286 02:07:42,239 --> 02:07:44,800 much closer to the useful length of life 3287 02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:48,480 of the development. Um, I don't know, 50 3288 02:07:48,480 --> 02:07:50,560 years, but certainly 30 years I think I 3289 02:07:50,560 --> 02:07:52,880 would be happier with. Um, I'm sure they 3290 02:07:52,880 --> 02:07:54,800 would not be happier with that. But 3291 02:07:54,800 --> 02:07:58,159 those are are my thoughts. Well, one 3292 02:07:58,159 --> 02:08:01,599 more. I actually think this is a really 3293 02:08:01,599 --> 02:08:03,920 good project. It's unfortunate that it 3294 02:08:03,920 --> 02:08:05,760 straddles two cities so that we have to 3295 02:08:05,760 --> 02:08:07,920 try to figure out something like that. 3296 02:08:07,920 --> 02:08:10,159 But for the southeast area of Provo and 3297 02:08:10,159 --> 02:08:12,639 that entrance to Springville, this is a 3298 02:08:12,639 --> 02:08:16,400 great way to revitalize that whole area. 3299 02:08:16,400 --> 02:08:19,440 And I don't want to kill this project 3300 02:08:19,440 --> 02:08:21,760 because I think that's going to be good 3301 02:08:21,760 --> 02:08:24,560 for that whole South State Street area. 3302 02:08:24,560 --> 02:08:27,360 I'm I'm really happy that a local 3303 02:08:27,360 --> 02:08:29,599 company, Clyde, is looking at doing this 3304 02:08:29,599 --> 02:08:32,560 kind of reinvestment in its community. 3305 02:08:32,560 --> 02:08:35,199 um like this is like 3306 02:08:35,199 --> 02:08:38,000 instead of us doing our redevelopment 3307 02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:40,079 agency and you know figuring out funds 3308 02:08:40,079 --> 02:08:41,920 for it, it's a private company that's 3309 02:08:41,920 --> 02:08:43,840 doing this that's building this really 3310 02:08:43,840 --> 02:08:46,639 useful good project that supports 3311 02:08:46,639 --> 02:08:49,840 commercial and residents. I I'm really 3312 02:08:49,840 --> 02:08:52,000 happy to see it. 3313 02:08:52,000 --> 02:08:54,159 >> Yeah, as I as I stated at the very 3314 02:08:54,159 --> 02:08:55,840 beginning, I think it's great to to work 3315 02:08:55,840 --> 02:09:02,800 cooperatively with your neighbors and have a sharing agreement that's that really shows equality. um in in the 3316 02:09:02,800 --> 02:09:06,079 benefit. Um when I was with Midville 3317 02:09:06,079 --> 02:09:07,280 City as their economic development 3318 02:09:07,280 --> 02:09:10,000 manager, we tried to work with Murray 3319 02:09:10,000 --> 02:09:13,280 City on a station area plan because the 3320 02:09:13,280 --> 02:09:15,360 station was kind of bordered the two 3321 02:09:15,360 --> 02:09:17,119 cities and they said, "No, we're 3322 02:09:17,119 --> 02:09:18,880 actually not interested in that, but 3323 02:09:18,880 --> 02:09:20,159 hopefully they'll get better people up 3324 02:09:20,159 --> 02:09:20,960 there." 3325 02:09:20,960 --> 02:09:22,880 >> Great comments. Thank you, councelor. 3326 02:09:22,880 --> 02:09:26,079 Whitlock. Yeah, just to echo, 3327 02:09:26,079 --> 02:09:26,719 I was in [clears throat] the 3328 02:09:26,719 --> 02:09:27,840 neighborhood meeting where this was 3329 02:09:27,840 --> 02:09:30,000 reviewed last week and I'll say 3330 02:09:30,000 --> 02:09:32,079 generally very positive feelings from 3331 02:09:32,079 --> 02:09:34,320 the neighborhood about this development. 3332 02:09:34,320 --> 02:09:36,560 Uh, you know, there's a number of 3333 02:09:36,560 --> 02:09:38,400 factors in that part of Provo that I 3334 02:09:38,400 --> 02:09:42,000 know the residents care about. Uh, it's a food desert. There's very few 3335 02:09:42,000 --> 02:09:44,400 places to go and grab places to eat or 3336 02:09:44,400 --> 02:09:48,159 to shop. Um, the Spring Creek Elementary 3337 02:09:48,159 --> 02:09:50,800 is sort of un is a it was on the list of 3338 02:09:50,800 --> 02:09:52,079 schools they're looking to close because 3339 02:09:52,079 --> 02:09:54,000 it's well below its cap and so the 3340 02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:55,840 students would be helpful. The concerns 3341 02:09:55,840 --> 02:09:57,280 were primarily around the fairness of 3342 02:09:57,280 --> 02:10:00,000 this agreement. Um, Jennifer Cartridge 3343 02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:01,520 from the school board was there also had 3344 02:10:01,520 --> 02:10:03,040 questions about how property taxes would 3345 02:10:03,040 --> 02:10:04,480 play into account raising similar 3346 02:10:04,480 --> 02:10:06,719 concerns as you. And so I like this 3347 02:10:06,719 --> 02:10:08,000 development. I'd like it to happen, but 3348 02:10:08,000 --> 02:10:10,159 I have a lot of issues with this 3349 02:10:10,159 --> 02:10:11,760 agreement of some of which we've named 3350 02:10:11,760 --> 02:10:13,199 as some of which we could talk for 30 3351 02:10:13,199 --> 02:10:14,800 more minutes about. Like I I don't 3352 02:10:14,800 --> 02:10:16,560 understand why we're only including 3353 02:10:16,560 --> 02:10:18,560 safety as costs when we're taking on 3354 02:10:18,560 --> 02:10:20,079 road plowing, infrastructure 3355 02:10:20,079 --> 02:10:22,560 maintenance, you know, road liabilities. 3356 02:10:22,560 --> 02:10:24,639 Like anyway, there's a lot of details we 3357 02:10:24,639 --> 02:10:25,679 could get into here, but that's my 3358 02:10:25,679 --> 02:10:27,199 general feeling. 3359 02:10:27,199 --> 02:10:29,679 >> Thank you, Councelor Whitlock. 3360 02:10:29,679 --> 02:10:32,560 Any other comments? Councelor Bogden. 3361 02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:34,560 >> So Gordon will be here tonight to answer 3362 02:10:34,560 --> 02:10:36,079 the infrastructure stuff because I know 3363 02:10:36,079 --> 02:10:38,239 that's one that a resident has brought 3364 02:10:38,239 --> 02:10:40,800 up was where is that infrastructure 3365 02:10:40,800 --> 02:10:42,159 coming from? Is it coming from Provo? 3366 02:10:42,159 --> 02:10:44,400 Was it coming from Springville? 3367 02:10:44,400 --> 02:10:47,760 So, I'd like that answered. Um, 3368 02:10:47,760 --> 02:10:50,000 also, gosh, what was there? There was 3369 02:10:50,000 --> 02:10:53,440 another one that they had. Oh, just to 3370 02:10:53,440 --> 02:10:55,760 clarify, we cleaned up a lot of iron and 3371 02:10:55,760 --> 02:10:57,360 we paid a lot of money to clean it up, 3372 02:10:57,360 --> 02:10:59,199 right? 3373 02:10:59,199 --> 02:11:00,560 >> How much money did we pay for this 3374 02:11:00,560 --> 02:11:03,119 parcel to be cleaned up or how much are 3375 02:11:03,119 --> 02:11:05,760 we expecting it to generate to come back 3376 02:11:05,760 --> 02:11:07,599 for that cleanup funding? 3377 02:11:07,599 --> 02:11:09,440 >> I can look into the small area plan 3378 02:11:09,440 --> 02:11:11,119 which governs this area. I'm not sure 3379 02:11:11,119 --> 02:11:13,599 that there's a dollar amount specific to 3380 02:11:13,599 --> 02:11:15,920 parcels. Um, but I can give you some 3381 02:11:15,920 --> 02:11:18,800 details about the remediation efforts in 3382 02:11:18,800 --> 02:11:19,679 that area 3383 02:11:19,679 --> 02:11:21,360 >> because that's also a concern. I don't 3384 02:11:21,360 --> 02:11:23,040 know that Springville paid anything for 3385 02:11:23,040 --> 02:11:24,719 remediation, did they? 3386 02:11:24,719 --> 02:11:26,239 >> I'm not aware of that. 3387 02:11:26,239 --> 02:11:28,159 >> And so, I think that we also need money 3388 02:11:28,159 --> 02:11:30,400 coming back for that. I mean, we're It 3389 02:11:30,400 --> 02:11:31,440 seems like they're getting a lot of 3390 02:11:31,440 --> 02:11:33,760 benefit for 3391 02:11:33,760 --> 02:11:36,159 a lot of benefit and it seems like we've 3392 02:11:36,159 --> 02:11:38,480 done a lot to this area to bring it to 3393 02:11:38,480 --> 02:11:40,320 where it is today. 3394 02:11:40,320 --> 02:11:43,760 Yeah, they also would would note that 3395 02:11:43,760 --> 02:11:46,960 they are also giving up there's a there 3396 02:11:46,960 --> 02:11:49,040 was a used car lot and two restaurants 3397 02:11:49,040 --> 02:11:52,079 on that site and they're removing it and 3398 02:11:52,079 --> 02:11:54,639 to provide this development as well. So 3399 02:11:54,639 --> 02:11:56,480 I think they they would note that we're 3400 02:11:56,480 --> 02:11:58,000 also giving up some revenues that are 3401 02:11:58,000 --> 02:12:00,639 existing now for a future benefit to 3402 02:12:00,639 --> 02:12:02,880 both cities. 3403 02:12:02,880 --> 02:12:04,480 >> Yeah, I don't think the city did much 3404 02:12:04,480 --> 02:12:06,079 remediation at all. I think we passed 3405 02:12:06,079 --> 02:12:08,239 that responsibility on to the people who 3406 02:12:08,239 --> 02:12:09,679 bought properties from us. 3407 02:12:09,679 --> 02:12:10,800 >> Okay. 3408 02:12:10,800 --> 02:12:11,920 >> Is that how it works? 3409 02:12:11,920 --> 02:12:12,800 >> Yeah. Like 3410 02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:14,800 >> Okay. 3411 02:12:14,800 --> 02:12:23,350 >> Man who built hallmation 3412 02:12:23,360 --> 02:12:26,239 stuff. 3413 02:12:26,239 --> 02:12:27,679 >> Okay. [clears throat] 3414 02:12:27,679 --> 02:12:30,719 >> So, we don't necessarily have much skin 3415 02:12:30,719 --> 02:12:33,679 in the game as far. 3416 02:12:33,679 --> 02:12:34,239 >> Thanks, 3417 02:12:34,239 --> 02:12:36,239 >> Cody. Why don't you continue with the 3418 02:12:36,239 --> 02:12:38,560 next two items relative to this one is 3419 02:12:38,560 --> 02:12:41,040 the zone map classification 3420 02:12:41,040 --> 02:12:44,000 amendment and then the general plan map 3421 02:12:44,000 --> 02:12:45,679 designation amendment. Let's just 3422 02:12:45,679 --> 02:12:47,520 continue 3423 02:12:47,520 --> 02:12:49,679 and um 3424 02:12:49,679 --> 02:12:53,599 because they they kind of um oh 3425 02:12:53,599 --> 02:12:56,400 >> oh sorry about that. Okay co Cody thank 3426 02:12:56,400 --> 02:12:57,840 you. Yes, of course. 3427 02:12:57,840 --> 02:12:59,520 >> Quick note, council, 3428 02:12:59,520 --> 02:13:01,280 >> and maybe we want to do this after we 3429 02:13:01,280 --> 02:13:03,760 hear Aaron and Brian jump in, but just 3430 02:13:03,760 --> 02:13:07,040 as um Cody and Brian go back to 3431 02:13:07,040 --> 02:13:09,280 negotiate development agreement, if the 3432 02:13:09,280 --> 02:13:11,119 council does have very specific things 3433 02:13:11,119 --> 02:13:13,679 they would like to see in that, motions 3434 02:13:13,679 --> 02:13:15,920 would be helpful and maybe after hearing 3435 02:13:15,920 --> 02:13:17,840 context from Aaron's items, that might 3436 02:13:17,840 --> 02:13:19,840 be a better place to do that. Let's do 3437 02:13:19,840 --> 02:13:22,239 that. But motions would be helpful as to 3438 02:13:22,239 --> 02:13:22,960 negotiate. 3439 02:13:22,960 --> 02:13:25,119 >> Okay. So, you'll hang out Cody here. 3440 02:13:25,119 --> 02:13:25,599 Okay. 3441 02:13:25,599 --> 02:13:26,560 >> Yes. Okay. Thank you. 3442 02:13:26,560 --> 02:13:27,280 >> I'll be around. 3443 02:13:27,280 --> 02:13:28,239 >> All right. 3444 02:13:28,239 --> 02:13:31,840 >> And so let's turn the time to Aaron 3445 02:13:31,840 --> 02:13:33,440 >> for the next two items. Same 3446 02:13:33,440 --> 02:13:36,560 development, but one regarding the zone 3447 02:13:36,560 --> 02:13:39,920 map classification and the other the 3448 02:13:39,920 --> 02:13:43,599 general plan map designation. 3449 02:13:43,599 --> 02:13:46,480 >> Okay. Um, so 3450 02:13:46,480 --> 02:13:47,599 because these items are going to be on 3451 02:13:47,599 --> 02:13:49,119 your agenda tonight, I won't go into 3452 02:13:49,119 --> 02:13:51,280 like the full presentation. maybe just 3453 02:13:51,280 --> 02:13:53,119 save this time for for questions that I 3454 02:13:53,119 --> 02:13:54,800 could try to answer now or prepare 3455 02:13:54,800 --> 02:13:56,960 answers for for this evening. But 3456 02:13:56,960 --> 02:13:58,239 essentially, it's it's going from an 3457 02:13:58,239 --> 02:13:59,679 industrial zone and general plan 3458 02:13:59,679 --> 02:14:02,800 designation uh to a mixeduse designation 3459 02:14:02,800 --> 02:14:05,599 and a mix between medium density zoning 3460 02:14:05,599 --> 02:14:08,320 and some uh general commercial zoning uh 3461 02:14:08,320 --> 02:14:11,360 to to fill the the kind of the vision of 3462 02:14:11,360 --> 02:14:14,000 a Springville Risings project. Um, but 3463 02:14:14,000 --> 02:14:15,520 if there's any specific questions I can 3464 02:14:15,520 --> 02:14:19,679 try to answer now or or for tonight, 3465 02:14:19,679 --> 02:14:21,199 >> councelor Van. 3466 02:14:21,199 --> 02:14:22,960 >> Okay. So, when I read the development 3467 02:14:22,960 --> 02:14:24,480 agreement, 3468 02:14:24,480 --> 02:14:26,480 >> I guess first question I should ask, do 3469 02:14:26,480 --> 02:14:28,239 you have any idea why they 3470 02:14:28,239 --> 02:14:32,320 procrastinated giving that to us until 3471 02:14:32,320 --> 02:14:34,239 >> um I think I think this council has 3472 02:14:34,239 --> 02:14:35,520 gotten used to having development 3473 02:14:35,520 --> 02:14:38,159 agreements at the time of the packet. In 3474 02:14:38,159 --> 02:14:40,480 the past, that wasn't typical. So, 3475 02:14:40,480 --> 02:14:43,119 typically in the past, councils have 3476 02:14:43,119 --> 02:14:45,199 negotiated that development agreement at 3477 02:14:45,199 --> 02:14:48,079 the time of the reszone hearing. Um, but 3478 02:14:48,079 --> 02:14:49,520 this council has gotten used to having 3479 02:14:49,520 --> 02:14:51,520 those up front. Um, so I don't know if 3480 02:14:51,520 --> 02:14:56,079 it's a a delay on purpose, but just as 3481 02:14:56,079 --> 02:14:58,320 they kind of worked out the details with 3482 02:14:58,320 --> 02:15:00,560 our legal team, uh, a draft was ready 3483 02:15:00,560 --> 02:15:01,679 when it was ready. 3484 02:15:01,679 --> 02:15:04,639 >> So, to me, I still need to be able to 3485 02:15:04,639 --> 02:15:06,400 read it and I still need time to read 3486 02:15:06,400 --> 02:15:09,840 that. And I like those with the packet. 3487 02:15:09,840 --> 02:15:12,000 I think that's what we've we've 3488 02:15:12,000 --> 02:15:13,679 established is if you don't have things 3489 02:15:13,679 --> 02:15:15,040 ready, then it gets continued. 3490 02:15:15,040 --> 02:15:16,800 >> Well, it's not a requirement per se is 3491 02:15:16,800 --> 02:15:18,239 what I'm saying. 3492 02:15:18,239 --> 02:15:21,520 >> But what I'm saying is to me that 3493 02:15:21,520 --> 02:15:24,159 creates a council that doesn't have time 3494 02:15:24,159 --> 02:15:26,079 to review it and it's like a rubber 3495 02:15:26,079 --> 02:15:27,840 stamp council and that's not the council 3496 02:15:27,840 --> 02:15:29,520 that I'm comfortable with. I would 3497 02:15:29,520 --> 02:15:31,280 prefer those documents earlier where we 3498 02:15:31,280 --> 02:15:32,960 can review them and then of course we 3499 02:15:32,960 --> 02:15:35,920 will have those conversations but we we 3500 02:15:35,920 --> 02:15:37,520 will be prepared to have those 3501 02:15:37,520 --> 02:15:39,360 conversations during these meetings. 3502 02:15:39,360 --> 02:15:41,040 >> Yeah, Council Bugin that's a I mean it's 3503 02:15:41,040 --> 02:15:42,719 a very valid concern. It's a little bit 3504 02:15:42,719 --> 02:15:44,000 difficult with development agreements 3505 02:15:44,000 --> 02:15:46,079 because of the way they work. Uh, I 3506 02:15:46,079 --> 02:15:48,159 mean, in some ways, 3507 02:15:48,159 --> 02:15:49,679 we're almost kind of dinging this 3508 02:15:49,679 --> 02:15:52,560 developer for having prepared one 3509 02:15:52,560 --> 02:15:54,400 because most developers don't prepare 3510 02:15:54,400 --> 02:15:57,520 one at all until because the normal 3511 02:15:57,520 --> 02:15:59,520 process for development agreements. And 3512 02:15:59,520 --> 02:16:01,599 again, this is going to be contradicted 3513 02:16:01,599 --> 02:16:03,599 in just a few minutes by Vesper, but 3514 02:16:03,599 --> 02:16:05,280 Vesper, I'm going to actually have some 3515 02:16:05,280 --> 02:16:06,880 introductory comments about Vesper about 3516 02:16:06,880 --> 02:16:08,800 the fact that it's an super unusual 3517 02:16:08,800 --> 02:16:12,800 case. Normally, we don't have any idea 3518 02:16:12,800 --> 02:16:16,239 that a development agreement is even 3519 02:16:16,239 --> 02:16:19,679 necessary until the developer is in 3520 02:16:19,679 --> 02:16:22,000 front of the council and the council 3521 02:16:22,000 --> 02:16:24,400 says, "Here are our concerns that we 3522 02:16:24,400 --> 02:16:26,960 need you to address in order for us to 3523 02:16:26,960 --> 02:16:28,880 feel comfortable with this reszone." And 3524 02:16:28,880 --> 02:16:31,040 then normally in the meeting, the 3525 02:16:31,040 --> 02:16:32,399 developer says, "Well, I'm happy to 3526 02:16:32,399 --> 02:16:34,000 enter into a development agreement that 3527 02:16:34,000 --> 02:16:37,040 says the following things." and you vote 3528 02:16:37,040 --> 02:16:39,519 on a resolution that says we approve 3529 02:16:39,519 --> 02:16:41,519 this reszone and authorize the mayor to 3530 02:16:41,519 --> 02:16:43,760 negotiate a development agreement that 3531 02:16:43,760 --> 02:16:45,359 says what the developer said in the 3532 02:16:45,359 --> 02:16:47,359 meeting. That's that's actually the 3533 02:16:47,359 --> 02:16:50,160 normal process. And usually the the 3534 02:16:50,160 --> 02:16:54,399 council in 90% I'd say 80% of cases the 3535 02:16:54,399 --> 02:16:56,240 uh council never even sees the 3536 02:16:56,240 --> 02:16:59,679 development agreement because it just is 3537 02:16:59,679 --> 02:17:01,679 an executive function taken after the 3538 02:17:01,679 --> 02:17:03,679 meeting to memorialize what they said in 3539 02:17:03,679 --> 02:17:06,319 the meeting. Now, sometimes we get 3540 02:17:06,319 --> 02:17:07,920 developers who are a little bit more 3541 02:17:07,920 --> 02:17:10,080 sophisticated and they they know that 3542 02:17:10,080 --> 02:17:11,519 there's going to be a concern, so they 3543 02:17:11,519 --> 02:17:14,559 try to address the concerns upfront and 3544 02:17:14,559 --> 02:17:18,479 so they give a draft. Um, I I don't want 3545 02:17:18,479 --> 02:17:21,120 to disincentivize them for doing that by 3546 02:17:21,120 --> 02:17:23,200 saying if you do something that 80% of 3547 02:17:23,200 --> 02:17:24,559 the other people aren't doing, you have 3548 02:17:24,559 --> 02:17:26,800 to do it sooner. Does that does that 3549 02:17:26,800 --> 02:17:28,960 make sense? Um, but I don't disagree 3550 02:17:28,960 --> 02:17:30,399 that it was very last minute as far as 3551 02:17:30,399 --> 02:17:32,479 giving you something to look at. And so 3552 02:17:32,479 --> 02:17:34,880 I understand the concern about that, but 3553 02:17:34,880 --> 02:17:36,719 I think it needs to be tempered with. 3554 02:17:36,719 --> 02:17:37,679 Maybe we just need to have more 3555 02:17:37,679 --> 02:17:38,960 discussion about what our development 3556 02:17:38,960 --> 02:17:42,479 agreement process should be. But we have 3557 02:17:42,479 --> 02:17:45,200 not in the past taken the approach that 3558 02:17:45,200 --> 02:17:47,679 every time we learn at the last minute 3559 02:17:47,679 --> 02:17:49,599 that you want one that we continue it 3560 02:17:49,599 --> 02:17:51,200 until you can see it. Does that make 3561 02:17:51,200 --> 02:17:52,719 sense? So most of the time you're never 3562 02:17:52,719 --> 02:17:54,240 even seeing 3563 02:17:54,240 --> 02:17:56,080 >> and sometimes there isn't even one, 3564 02:17:56,080 --> 02:17:58,000 >> right? A lot of times there isn't one 3565 02:17:58,000 --> 02:18:00,160 because we don't know. 3566 02:18:00,160 --> 02:18:01,679 And this will go to comments that I was 3567 02:18:01,679 --> 02:18:02,880 going to make in the in the vest 3568 02:18:02,880 --> 02:18:04,240 meeting. We don't know that the council 3569 02:18:04,240 --> 02:18:05,920 has concerns until they're actually 3570 02:18:05,920 --> 02:18:07,359 standing in front of you and you state 3571 02:18:07,359 --> 02:18:10,080 what your concerns are. So, usually the 3572 02:18:10,080 --> 02:18:11,920 only reason we get one before that is 3573 02:18:11,920 --> 02:18:15,359 because staff has concerns and they say, 3574 02:18:15,359 --> 02:18:17,679 "We're not going to recommend approval 3575 02:18:17,679 --> 02:18:19,599 if you don't do a DA that does the 3576 02:18:19,599 --> 02:18:21,599 following things." Or they try to guess 3577 02:18:21,599 --> 02:18:23,679 like sometimes like with the home 3578 02:18:23,679 --> 02:18:24,960 ownership thing. 3579 02:18:24,960 --> 02:18:27,439 staff has been pretty proactive uh 3580 02:18:27,439 --> 02:18:31,200 sometimes over my objections to say we 3581 02:18:31,200 --> 02:18:32,719 know that this is a big issue from the 3582 02:18:32,719 --> 02:18:34,240 council so you should so you should 3583 02:18:34,240 --> 02:18:36,000 react to it proactively instead of 3584 02:18:36,000 --> 02:18:37,840 waiting until they tell you that it's an 3585 02:18:37,840 --> 02:18:41,599 issue. Um so so sometimes we do get them 3586 02:18:41,599 --> 02:18:43,280 beforehand but it's actually the rarer 3587 02:18:43,280 --> 02:18:45,120 case not the more common case. 3588 02:18:45,120 --> 02:18:46,479 >> Gotcha. 3589 02:18:46,479 --> 02:18:50,080 >> Interesting. But so so my so my my 3590 02:18:50,080 --> 02:18:51,920 personal 3591 02:18:51,920 --> 02:18:53,920 uh feedback on what you just said is 3592 02:18:53,920 --> 02:18:56,399 that instead of asking for them sooner, 3593 02:18:56,399 --> 02:19:01,840 you should be really really really ready to continue things, 3594 02:19:01,840 --> 02:19:04,960 right? because it's going to be hard to 3595 02:19:04,960 --> 02:19:07,359 get them beforehand. But I think instead 3596 02:19:07,359 --> 02:19:09,280 of feeling pressure to vote on things 3597 02:19:09,280 --> 02:19:11,280 that you haven't seen, you should say in 3598 02:19:11,280 --> 02:19:13,280 the in the meeting where you see it for 3599 02:19:13,280 --> 02:19:16,080 the first time, you should say, "Great, 3600 02:19:16,080 --> 02:19:17,840 here are the things that I'm still not 3601 02:19:17,840 --> 02:19:19,679 satisfied with. Until those things are 3602 02:19:19,679 --> 02:19:21,280 satisfied, I don't feel comfortable 3603 02:19:21,280 --> 02:19:22,960 approving this. So, let's continue it 3604 02:19:22,960 --> 02:19:25,040 until you address those things." That I 3605 02:19:25,040 --> 02:19:27,200 think is actually the preferable method, 3606 02:19:27,200 --> 02:19:27,599 >> okay? 3607 02:19:27,599 --> 02:19:30,160 >> Over asking for demanding stuff further 3608 02:19:30,160 --> 02:19:30,880 in advance, 3609 02:19:30,880 --> 02:19:33,840 >> right? Just continue it here. Okay. So, 3610 02:19:33,840 --> 02:19:35,359 I do have a problem with the the 3611 02:19:35,359 --> 02:19:37,120 development agreement. It seems like 3612 02:19:37,120 --> 02:19:39,359 when I read it, you can tell me if I 3613 02:19:39,359 --> 02:19:41,920 read it wrong that they are saying that 3614 02:19:41,920 --> 02:19:43,599 they are guaranteeing homeowner 3615 02:19:43,599 --> 02:19:49,349 occupancy years after. 3616 02:19:49,359 --> 02:19:51,760 » They're they are saying that they will 3617 02:19:51,760 --> 02:19:54,160 have homeowner occupancy for two years 3618 02:19:54,160 --> 02:19:55,600 after they get the certificate of 3619 02:19:55,600 --> 02:19:57,920 occupancy. This isn't in perpetuity. 3620 02:19:57,920 --> 02:20:01,280 This is just the first two years of 3621 02:20:01,280 --> 02:20:02,160 occupancy. 3622 02:20:02,160 --> 02:20:03,280 >> Correct. 3623 02:20:03,280 --> 02:20:06,560 >> Okay. So that that I would I would say 3624 02:20:06,560 --> 02:20:08,160 no. I I would say you need to do it in 3625 02:20:08,160 --> 02:20:08,880 perpetuity. 3626 02:20:08,880 --> 02:20:11,040 >> And that is absolutely great and perfect 3627 02:20:11,040 --> 02:20:12,960 feedback for tonight to the developer 3628 02:20:12,960 --> 02:20:13,760 about why you 3629 02:20:13,760 --> 02:20:15,600 >> are they not watching any of this? 3630 02:20:15,600 --> 02:20:18,720 >> I don't have any idea. 3631 02:20:18,720 --> 02:20:20,399 >> So it's not every time the property 3632 02:20:20,399 --> 02:20:23,040 changes hands 3633 02:20:23,040 --> 02:20:24,720 right now. is the initial two-year 3634 02:20:24,720 --> 02:20:25,359 period in that. 3635 02:20:25,359 --> 02:20:26,319 >> Okay, 3636 02:20:26,319 --> 02:20:28,399 >> that's how I read it. 3637 02:20:28,399 --> 02:20:28,800 >> Okay, 3638 02:20:28,800 --> 02:20:30,080 >> that was I think one of the things that 3639 02:20:30,080 --> 02:20:32,640 I called out to you when I sent you the 3640 02:20:32,640 --> 02:20:35,439 draft by email. 3641 02:20:35,439 --> 02:20:36,720 >> Okay. 3642 02:20:36,720 --> 02:20:38,240 >> Was there just remind me was there 3643 02:20:38,240 --> 02:20:39,359 anything else that you called out by 3644 02:20:39,359 --> 02:20:39,840 email? 3645 02:20:39,840 --> 02:20:41,200 >> The other thing that the other thing 3646 02:20:41,200 --> 02:20:42,640 that I mentioned when I emailed it to 3647 02:20:42,640 --> 02:20:45,280 you is that the I think there's five 3648 02:20:45,280 --> 02:20:47,040 paragraph five substantive par sub 3649 02:20:47,040 --> 02:20:49,359 paragraphs to section four. three 3650 02:20:49,359 --> 02:20:51,680 through five 3651 02:20:51,680 --> 02:20:56,080 don't really say very much. They they're 3652 02:20:56,080 --> 02:20:58,319 essentially versions of we'll try to do 3653 02:20:58,319 --> 02:21:01,040 something to address something and but 3654 02:21:01,040 --> 02:21:04,080 they don't they're not concrete at all. 3655 02:21:04,080 --> 02:21:05,760 And so I called that out as being 3656 02:21:05,760 --> 02:21:06,880 something that I wasn't sure if the 3657 02:21:06,880 --> 02:21:08,399 council would be comfortable with. 3658 02:21:08,399 --> 02:21:09,680 >> Then maybe that's something that we 3659 02:21:09,680 --> 02:21:11,280 should consider continuing after we hear 3660 02:21:11,280 --> 02:21:13,680 the presentations. Continue this until 3661 02:21:13,680 --> 02:21:17,120 they specify what that is. 3662 02:21:17,120 --> 02:21:18,720 >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's that is 3663 02:21:18,720 --> 02:21:21,280 entirely what in my view what tonight's 3664 02:21:21,280 --> 02:21:22,960 meeting 3665 02:21:22,960 --> 02:21:24,880 is about is the opportunity for you to 3666 02:21:24,880 --> 02:21:26,319 tell them your concerns and what you're 3667 02:21:26,319 --> 02:21:28,000 dissatisfied with so that they give a 3668 02:21:28,000 --> 02:21:30,319 chance to to respond to because the 3669 02:21:30,319 --> 02:21:31,920 development agreement is really just 3670 02:21:31,920 --> 02:21:33,520 their prof. That's it's what they're 3671 02:21:33,520 --> 02:21:34,800 saying they're willing to do right now, 3672 02:21:34,800 --> 02:21:36,160 but they haven't gotten any feedback 3673 02:21:36,160 --> 02:21:36,960 from you yet. 3674 02:21:36,960 --> 02:21:38,560 >> So the continuence you would recommend 3675 02:21:38,560 --> 02:21:39,760 in tonight's meeting, 3676 02:21:39,760 --> 02:21:40,399 >> right? If 3677 02:21:40,399 --> 02:21:41,840 >> not now, but in tonight's meeting, 3678 02:21:41,840 --> 02:21:44,000 >> right? My recommendation would be you 3679 02:21:44,000 --> 02:21:45,680 let them show up tonight. You let them 3680 02:21:45,680 --> 02:21:47,760 make their presentation. You tell them 3681 02:21:47,760 --> 02:21:50,640 any deficiencies that you see. They may 3682 02:21:50,640 --> 02:21:52,319 be able to respond to those deficiencies 3683 02:21:52,319 --> 02:21:55,280 on the spot, right? If and then we might 3684 02:21:55,280 --> 02:21:57,439 be able to do a a hybrid version where 3685 02:21:57,439 --> 02:22:00,080 we where we say you're approving a 3686 02:22:00,080 --> 02:22:02,880 development agreement that comport that 3687 02:22:02,880 --> 02:22:05,040 it will be changed to reflect what they 3688 02:22:05,040 --> 02:22:06,960 promise in the meeting. more similar to 3689 02:22:06,960 --> 02:22:08,640 the process that I described earlier, 3690 02:22:08,640 --> 02:22:10,160 >> but I think we only had a chance to 3691 02:22:10,160 --> 02:22:12,319 study the what they profered first. It 3692 02:22:12,319 --> 02:22:14,319 was kind it came so late that I don't 3693 02:22:14,319 --> 02:22:15,760 know that any of us have really had a 3694 02:22:15,760 --> 02:22:17,359 chance to really look at it. 3695 02:22:17,359 --> 02:22:19,040 >> Well, and and and again, I I wouldn't 3696 02:22:19,040 --> 02:22:21,760 expect you to I would expect them in the 3697 02:22:21,760 --> 02:22:24,000 meeting to walk very carefully through 3698 02:22:24,000 --> 02:22:25,680 their profer and explain exactly what 3699 02:22:25,680 --> 02:22:27,680 they're profering and then for then you 3700 02:22:27,680 --> 02:22:31,120 to push back on the the meeting because 3701 02:22:31,120 --> 02:22:33,120 and again this goes back to to the 3702 02:22:33,120 --> 02:22:35,040 Vesper issue, right? Because development 3703 02:22:35,040 --> 02:22:36,720 agreements are negotiated with the 3704 02:22:36,720 --> 02:22:38,720 council, not with the administration. 3705 02:22:38,720 --> 02:22:40,960 Your chance to negotiate it is in the 3706 02:22:40,960 --> 02:22:44,710 meeting. 3707 02:22:44,720 --> 02:22:46,640 » Thanks. 3708 02:22:46,640 --> 02:22:50,160 >> Does it make u better sense necessarily 3709 02:22:50,160 --> 02:22:54,240 to have the these two items presented 3710 02:22:54,240 --> 02:22:58,720 first followed by the um 3711 02:22:58,720 --> 02:23:00,880 interlocal agreement or the way it is 3712 02:23:00,880 --> 02:23:02,160 here? 3713 02:23:02,160 --> 02:23:04,399 Um, well, I was thinking that as when 3714 02:23:04,399 --> 02:23:05,840 Cody came to the stand. I think for the 3715 02:23:05,840 --> 02:23:08,240 public, it makes more sense to do the 3716 02:23:08,240 --> 02:23:10,240 proposal before the entry level. 3717 02:23:10,240 --> 02:23:10,560 >> Okay? 3718 02:23:10,560 --> 02:23:11,920 >> Because then they're seeing what's being 3719 02:23:11,920 --> 02:23:14,960 proposed before we discuss the revenue 3720 02:23:14,960 --> 02:23:15,920 portion of it. 3721 02:23:15,920 --> 02:23:17,280 >> Okay? 3722 02:23:17,280 --> 02:23:19,200 >> And as long as they're noticed on the 3723 02:23:19,200 --> 02:23:20,640 same agenda, it doesn't matter what 3724 02:23:20,640 --> 02:23:22,720 order you. 3725 02:23:22,720 --> 02:23:25,600 >> Okay? I think one note about that is 3726 02:23:25,600 --> 02:23:27,920 from what I've understood about this 3727 02:23:27,920 --> 02:23:30,000 whole development is if the interlocal 3728 02:23:30,000 --> 02:23:32,399 agreement isn't there then the general 3729 02:23:32,399 --> 02:23:34,319 plan zone's probably not true 3730 02:23:34,319 --> 02:23:36,160 >> favorable right true 3731 02:23:36,160 --> 02:23:38,479 >> yeah so you may 3732 02:23:38,479 --> 02:23:40,080 what you may what you may want to do is 3733 02:23:40,080 --> 02:23:42,399 read all three of them into the into the 3734 02:23:42,399 --> 02:23:45,120 agenda have Erin present first about 3735 02:23:45,120 --> 02:23:46,800 what the meeting is then have Cody 3736 02:23:46,800 --> 02:23:48,960 present about what the proposed 3737 02:23:48,960 --> 02:23:51,359 interlocal is but not vote on any of 3738 02:23:51,359 --> 02:23:54,000 them until you've heard all three of 3739 02:23:54,000 --> 02:23:55,439 them and then vote on the interlocal 3740 02:23:55,439 --> 02:23:55,760 first. 3741 02:23:55,760 --> 02:24:02,309 >> Yeah. Okay. 3742 02:24:02,319 --> 02:24:03,439 » Yes. Council Red. 3743 02:24:03,439 --> 02:24:07,920 >> Yeah. I mean it's interesting because 3744 02:24:07,920 --> 02:24:10,080 I'm what I'm hearing is we as a council, 3745 02:24:10,080 --> 02:24:11,280 we like this bill and we'd like to make 3746 02:24:11,280 --> 02:24:12,560 happen, but we have a lot of concerns 3747 02:24:12,560 --> 02:24:15,359 with this agreement. And it's weird to 3748 02:24:15,359 --> 02:24:18,160 kind of take these items tonight 3749 02:24:18,160 --> 02:24:20,160 when that's the crux of the issue and 3750 02:24:20,160 --> 02:24:23,120 we're not in a place where we can make a 3751 02:24:23,120 --> 02:24:24,560 decision because we're negotiating with 3752 02:24:24,560 --> 02:24:27,120 another party. 3753 02:24:27,120 --> 02:24:28,800 I mean, so the alternative is I guess 3754 02:24:28,800 --> 02:24:30,720 again because and I I get that too 3755 02:24:30,720 --> 02:24:31,760 because you're going to have public 3756 02:24:31,760 --> 02:24:33,120 comment about something that you're not 3757 02:24:33,120 --> 02:24:36,640 even So the alternative is if you know 3758 02:24:36,640 --> 02:24:39,840 right now without having the applicant 3759 02:24:39,840 --> 02:24:41,920 here to tell you their answers to your 3760 02:24:41,920 --> 02:24:44,319 questions exactly how you want the 3761 02:24:44,319 --> 02:24:46,800 development agreement changed. You could 3762 02:24:46,800 --> 02:24:50,080 make motions about what you want changed 3763 02:24:50,080 --> 02:24:52,640 about it and then you could continue the 3764 02:24:52,640 --> 02:24:54,960 item and then staff would have direction 3765 02:24:54,960 --> 02:24:57,280 based on your motions. go back to the 3766 02:24:57,280 --> 02:24:59,359 developer and say council doesn't want 3767 02:24:59,359 --> 02:25:00,800 to hear your item until the development 3768 02:25:00,800 --> 02:25:02,640 agreement says the following things. 3769 02:25:02,640 --> 02:25:04,560 >> Well, I think I think more of the 3770 02:25:04,560 --> 02:25:07,520 concern that I was hearing is we have to 3771 02:25:07,520 --> 02:25:09,120 have that interlocal agreement with 3772 02:25:09,120 --> 02:25:12,399 Springville in place first before the 3773 02:25:12,399 --> 02:25:14,880 rest of it makes sense. And right now I 3774 02:25:14,880 --> 02:25:16,080 think there's concerns with that 3775 02:25:16,080 --> 02:25:17,600 interlocal agreement between us and 3776 02:25:17,600 --> 02:25:19,280 Springville. 3777 02:25:19,280 --> 02:25:22,319 Is am I am I following the right path 3778 02:25:22,319 --> 02:25:22,800 here? 3779 02:25:22,800 --> 02:25:25,200 >> I think so. Yeah. And so it doesn't make 3780 02:25:25,200 --> 02:25:27,840 any sense for us to to negotiate a 3781 02:25:27,840 --> 02:25:30,319 development agreement if that makes no 3782 02:25:30,319 --> 02:25:32,800 sense if our interlocal agreement isn't 3783 02:25:32,800 --> 02:25:35,359 going to pass. And it seems like we have 3784 02:25:35,359 --> 02:25:38,479 a a lots of questions and issues with 3785 02:25:38,479 --> 02:25:41,600 that interlocal agreement at this time. 3786 02:25:41,600 --> 02:25:43,280 >> Yeah, if I could 3787 02:25:43,280 --> 02:25:47,439 >> if I could jump in 3788 02:25:47,439 --> 02:25:51,830 >> Oh, go ahead. 3789 02:25:51,840 --> 02:25:55,120 » If I could jump in. I um I didn't get a 3790 02:25:55,120 --> 02:25:57,840 chance to weigh in at the end of the uh 3791 02:25:57,840 --> 02:25:59,760 the Springfield discussion, but I I too 3792 02:25:59,760 --> 02:26:01,840 have major concerns about the interlocal 3793 02:26:01,840 --> 02:26:03,439 agreement and so I think Becky's 3794 02:26:03,439 --> 02:26:04,960 bringing up some very valid points. I 3795 02:26:04,960 --> 02:26:07,200 just wanted to weigh in. 3796 02:26:07,200 --> 02:26:08,560 >> Thank you, Craig. 3797 02:26:08,560 --> 02:26:11,120 >> For my clarification, just so I'm Were 3798 02:26:11,120 --> 02:26:13,680 there issues with the interlocal besides 3799 02:26:13,680 --> 02:26:15,840 the trigger point and the length of it? 3800 02:26:15,840 --> 02:26:18,319 >> I I like I can answer one. 3801 02:26:18,319 --> 02:26:20,800 >> Okay, councelor Woodlock. So, and again, 3802 02:26:20,800 --> 02:26:22,319 maybe I'm misunderstanding, so maybe I 3803 02:26:22,319 --> 02:26:23,680 don't know if Cody left, but the way I 3804 02:26:23,680 --> 02:26:24,960 read the interlocal agreement was 3805 02:26:24,960 --> 02:26:27,280 basically Okay. It's basically like net 3806 02:26:27,280 --> 02:26:30,080 benefit minus costs. Whoever has the net 3807 02:26:30,080 --> 02:26:32,640 benefit then pays 50% of the other 3808 02:26:32,640 --> 02:26:33,840 >> side. That's kind of how it works, 3809 02:26:33,840 --> 02:26:34,080 right? 3810 02:26:34,080 --> 02:26:34,479 >> Yes. 3811 02:26:34,479 --> 02:26:36,240 >> So, my concern is that like my 3812 02:26:36,240 --> 02:26:38,960 understanding is we all know that 3813 02:26:38,960 --> 02:26:41,280 residential housing costs more to a city 3814 02:26:41,280 --> 02:26:42,800 to maintain than businesses, 3815 02:26:42,800 --> 02:26:45,680 >> right? Yet, we exclude all of the costs 3816 02:26:45,680 --> 02:26:47,520 of 3817 02:26:47,520 --> 02:26:49,840 the true I think I calculated 7x 3818 02:26:49,840 --> 02:26:51,359 basically because we're only counting 3819 02:26:51,359 --> 02:26:53,439 safety. We're excluding all the costs of 3820 02:26:53,439 --> 02:26:55,280 supporting those homes. And so, we could 3821 02:26:55,280 --> 02:26:57,439 actually get a bad sales tax here where 3822 02:26:57,439 --> 02:26:58,960 we're actually paying to spring bill. 3823 02:26:58,960 --> 02:27:00,240 And that to me just fundamentally 3824 02:27:00,240 --> 02:27:01,840 doesn't make sense when you look at 3825 02:27:01,840 --> 02:27:03,840 what's actually happening in reality. 3826 02:27:03,840 --> 02:27:05,680 So, that's so I just have like a really 3827 02:27:05,680 --> 02:27:06,960 big concern with the fundamental 3828 02:27:06,960 --> 02:27:09,359 structure of the agreement. I think your 3829 02:27:09,359 --> 02:27:11,120 point is valid, but it's not as extreme 3830 02:27:11,120 --> 02:27:13,200 as you may be thinking because of the 3831 02:27:13,200 --> 02:27:15,359 way this has been proposed. Most of it's 3832 02:27:15,359 --> 02:27:17,280 going to be private maintenance. 3833 02:27:17,280 --> 02:27:18,960 >> These are private roads going through 3834 02:27:18,960 --> 02:27:20,160 >> all in HOA. 3835 02:27:20,160 --> 02:27:22,800 >> Yes. So I I don't I think you have a 3836 02:27:22,800 --> 02:27:24,319 valid point, but it's just not as 3837 02:27:24,319 --> 02:27:25,439 extreme. 3838 02:27:25,439 --> 02:27:26,800 >> Maybe not 7X, 3839 02:27:26,800 --> 02:27:28,640 >> right? Exactly. 3840 02:27:28,640 --> 02:27:28,800 But 3841 02:27:28,800 --> 02:27:29,840 >> I was assuming we were taking on 3842 02:27:29,840 --> 02:27:31,520 maintenance of the streets, the plowing, 3843 02:27:31,520 --> 02:27:32,479 the sidewalks, the 3844 02:27:32,479 --> 02:27:35,040 >> That's not the case. The storm drain. 3845 02:27:35,040 --> 02:27:38,160 What like what do we What are our costs? 3846 02:27:38,160 --> 02:27:40,000 But it I mean I imagine it's more on 3847 02:27:40,000 --> 02:27:40,880 safety, right? 3848 02:27:40,880 --> 02:27:43,200 >> Yes. But it's not going to be snow 3849 02:27:43,200 --> 02:27:45,200 plowing except for the public streets 3850 02:27:45,200 --> 02:27:46,880 and there's only the ones on the 3851 02:27:46,880 --> 02:27:49,040 perimeter. But to Becky's original 3852 02:27:49,040 --> 02:27:51,359 point, I think that if there's not an 3853 02:27:51,359 --> 02:27:53,920 interlocal agreement, we probably don't 3854 02:27:53,920 --> 02:27:56,800 want the zone change. Correct. So that's 3855 02:27:56,800 --> 02:27:58,399 why that's what gives that the higher 3856 02:27:58,399 --> 02:27:58,960 priority. 3857 02:27:58,960 --> 02:28:00,720 >> Well, isn't isn't that what we were kind 3858 02:28:00,720 --> 02:28:02,560 of saying? That's what Erin was saying 3859 02:28:02,560 --> 02:28:04,319 that the zone change, the general plan 3860 02:28:04,319 --> 02:28:05,840 amendment, none of it makes sense unless 3861 02:28:05,840 --> 02:28:08,240 this interlocal agreement goes forward. 3862 02:28:08,240 --> 02:28:12,000 >> So to me, if council has issues with the 3863 02:28:12,000 --> 02:28:13,439 interleal agreement, it probably makes 3864 02:28:13,439 --> 02:28:15,040 sense to just continue the other two 3865 02:28:15,040 --> 02:28:16,560 items 3866 02:28:16,560 --> 02:28:20,319 even now and give everybody a a heads up 3867 02:28:20,319 --> 02:28:23,120 and then we can that gives us a chance 3868 02:28:23,120 --> 02:28:24,880 to look at their development agreement 3869 02:28:24,880 --> 02:28:26,720 just in case and then we can have those 3870 02:28:26,720 --> 02:28:30,240 conversations after we get this passed. 3871 02:28:30,240 --> 02:28:31,600 But to Lilia's point, it's really 3872 02:28:31,600 --> 02:28:33,040 helpful for them tonight to hear what 3873 02:28:33,040 --> 02:28:35,120 your objections are to the inter goal. 3874 02:28:35,120 --> 02:28:35,840 >> Yes. 3875 02:28:35,840 --> 02:28:38,720 >> And spec I would articulate it in 3876 02:28:38,720 --> 02:28:41,120 principle. I would like the true cost of 3877 02:28:41,120 --> 02:28:42,560 service to be represented in the 3878 02:28:42,560 --> 02:28:43,680 interlocal agreement. 3879 02:28:43,680 --> 02:28:46,960 >> Okay. And then I like I I I shouldn't 3880 02:28:46,960 --> 02:28:48,960 say I correct what I said earlier. I 3881 02:28:48,960 --> 02:28:50,800 think at the highest level formula it 3882 02:28:50,800 --> 02:28:53,120 makes sense. Net benefit split 50/50. I 3883 02:28:53,120 --> 02:28:54,080 just don't think we're properly 3884 02:28:54,080 --> 02:28:56,479 accounting for the costs is my point. 3885 02:28:56,479 --> 02:28:57,920 And then I agree with the duration as 3886 02:28:57,920 --> 02:28:59,840 being a major concern too. 3887 02:28:59,840 --> 02:29:01,840 But I think my question would be how 3888 02:29:01,840 --> 02:29:04,399 much of the cost do you want included 3889 02:29:04,399 --> 02:29:06,720 because to represent reality like as 3890 02:29:06,720 --> 02:29:08,240 close to reality as possible so that we 3891 02:29:08,240 --> 02:29:10,479 are truly so that the principle which I 3892 02:29:10,479 --> 02:29:11,760 think we're all agreeing on and maybe 3893 02:29:11,760 --> 02:29:12,640 that's where I would start with the 3894 02:29:12,640 --> 02:29:17,120 negotiation with Springville is we are want this to be fair. We want 3895 02:29:17,120 --> 02:29:18,800 each side to benefit equally relative to 3896 02:29:18,800 --> 02:29:20,479 the cost they're taking on. And that 3897 02:29:20,479 --> 02:29:22,000 would I would try to make the formula 3898 02:29:22,000 --> 02:29:23,439 represent reality as much as possible. 3899 02:29:23,439 --> 02:29:24,560 And I don't think we're there. 3900 02:29:24,560 --> 02:29:26,560 >> So all ongoing maintenance that will be 3901 02:29:26,560 --> 02:29:28,640 city responsibility. That's what you 3902 02:29:28,640 --> 02:29:29,280 have to say 3903 02:29:29,280 --> 02:29:30,800 >> or both. 3904 02:29:30,800 --> 02:29:32,560 >> And you're looking for actuals, not 3905 02:29:32,560 --> 02:29:33,439 estimates. 3906 02:29:33,439 --> 02:29:35,120 >> I mean, modeling is modeling is fine 3907 02:29:35,120 --> 02:29:38,000 just as long as it's also takes it into 3908 02:29:38,000 --> 02:29:38,479 account. 3909 02:29:38,479 --> 02:29:40,720 >> I think the concern on my side is just 3910 02:29:40,720 --> 02:29:42,720 that we can get so granular that the 3911 02:29:42,720 --> 02:29:44,960 cost of actually figuring out what the 3912 02:29:44,960 --> 02:29:47,359 costs are is more than the transfer is 3913 02:29:47,359 --> 02:29:48,080 going to be. 3914 02:29:48,080 --> 02:29:49,439 >> Yeah. And I think that's a totally fair 3915 02:29:49,439 --> 02:29:51,040 point. I just think we know roughly what 3916 02:29:51,040 --> 02:29:52,640 the large categories are and then we 3917 02:29:52,640 --> 02:29:54,080 could add assumptions into those C. I 3918 02:29:54,080 --> 02:29:54,720 mean, that's what we're doing with 3919 02:29:54,720 --> 02:29:56,000 police. You're doing like a cost per 3920 02:29:56,000 --> 02:29:57,520 call assumption. Mhm. 3921 02:29:57,520 --> 02:29:59,760 >> Yeah. I just when I ran some scenarios, 3922 02:29:59,760 --> 02:30:01,920 I could I could just easily see years 3923 02:30:01,920 --> 02:30:03,040 where we're actually paying out to 3924 02:30:03,040 --> 02:30:04,160 Springville and I think that just 3925 02:30:04,160 --> 02:30:08,469 fundamentally doesn't make sense. 3926 02:30:08,479 --> 02:30:10,720 » Yeah. So, 3927 02:30:10,720 --> 02:30:12,479 understanding your concerns is very 3928 02:30:12,479 --> 02:30:15,040 helpful and then also um providing 3929 02:30:15,040 --> 02:30:18,080 proposed solutions to it is helpful for 3930 02:30:18,080 --> 02:30:18,720 me. 3931 02:30:18,720 --> 02:30:20,000 >> Tell me if you think I'm wrong. By the 3932 02:30:20,000 --> 02:30:21,840 way, if you think I'm making inaccurate 3933 02:30:21,840 --> 02:30:23,120 statements, I'd love to hear it. I'm 3934 02:30:23,120 --> 02:30:24,720 just trying to articulate the site as 3935 02:30:24,720 --> 02:30:26,000 clearly as possible. I'm not going to 3936 02:30:26,000 --> 02:30:28,160 say you're wrong. I'm just saying that. 3937 02:30:28,160 --> 02:30:29,680 >> No, but I'm saying if you think like for 3938 02:30:29,680 --> 02:30:31,760 example, if you think that we are not 3939 02:30:31,760 --> 02:30:33,120 going to actually take on more costs in 3940 02:30:33,120 --> 02:30:34,399 reality and that Springfield actually is 3941 02:30:34,399 --> 02:30:35,840 going to take on more costs and 3942 02:30:35,840 --> 02:30:37,840 >> then then I'd like to hear that. But my 3943 02:30:37,840 --> 02:30:41,040 understanding just based on residential, 3944 02:30:41,040 --> 02:30:42,640 home, school district, all the things 3945 02:30:42,640 --> 02:30:45,200 that you have, it tends on that to be 3946 02:30:45,200 --> 02:30:47,520 far more costly than businesses. 3947 02:30:47,520 --> 02:30:49,120 >> Yeah. I I'm again I'm not saying you're 3948 02:30:49,120 --> 02:30:51,760 wrong. My concern is administering the 3949 02:30:51,760 --> 02:30:53,840 agreement and the more complex it is, 3950 02:30:53,840 --> 02:30:54,880 the harder it's going to be to 3951 02:30:54,880 --> 02:30:56,160 administer, the longer it's going to 3952 02:30:56,160 --> 02:30:58,800 take and the [clears throat] the net 3953 02:30:58,800 --> 02:31:01,280 benefit of of that might not outweigh 3954 02:31:01,280 --> 02:31:03,040 the cost and the effort of of getting 3955 02:31:03,040 --> 02:31:04,960 that exact number. So, if we want to 3956 02:31:04,960 --> 02:31:08,399 include um additional costs that are 3957 02:31:08,399 --> 02:31:11,520 larger into this, a couple is I'm 3958 02:31:11,520 --> 02:31:13,439 totally fine with that. We want to get 3959 02:31:13,439 --> 02:31:16,640 granular and not make estimates for what 3960 02:31:16,640 --> 02:31:19,439 the costs are, but really get in and 3961 02:31:19,439 --> 02:31:21,120 have the police and fire sit over their 3962 02:31:21,120 --> 02:31:24,560 data and the aggregate number of calls. 3963 02:31:24,560 --> 02:31:26,160 >> You could even you could even just do a 3964 02:31:26,160 --> 02:31:28,560 per home estimate that more represents 3965 02:31:28,560 --> 02:31:30,560 the true cost to the city on a per 3966 02:31:30,560 --> 02:31:32,319 basis. 3967 02:31:32,319 --> 02:31:33,600 >> The person that's going to probably 3968 02:31:33,600 --> 02:31:35,520 administer I respect that. 3969 02:31:35,520 --> 02:31:36,720 >> But Jeeoff, I think first we need to 3970 02:31:36,720 --> 02:31:37,840 figure out where the utilities are 3971 02:31:37,840 --> 02:31:39,040 coming from. Are they coming from us? 3972 02:31:39,040 --> 02:31:40,319 Are they coming from Springville or are 3973 02:31:40,319 --> 02:31:41,680 they going to be split? Miss Springville 3974 02:31:41,680 --> 02:31:43,280 gonna cover their their portion and 3975 02:31:43,280 --> 02:31:44,479 we're gonna cover ours. 3976 02:31:44,479 --> 02:31:45,120 >> Yes. 3977 02:31:45,120 --> 02:31:47,840 >> Okay. So, Gordon's gonna have to but do 3978 02:31:47,840 --> 02:31:52,399 we have sufficient utilities for 3979 02:31:52,399 --> 02:31:55,040 Iron to go ahead and just fish down here 3980 02:31:55,040 --> 02:31:57,920 or is this going to be like a huge 3981 02:31:57,920 --> 02:32:00,000 undertaking? 3982 02:32:00,000 --> 02:32:01,600 >> That's Gordon. 3983 02:32:01,600 --> 02:32:04,000 >> Okay. Okay. So, we're providing water, 3984 02:32:04,000 --> 02:32:06,800 sewer, garbage, 3985 02:32:06,800 --> 02:32:09,200 um storm water, and electricity all to 3986 02:32:09,200 --> 02:32:13,600 the portion that's for Provo 3987 02:32:13,600 --> 02:32:17,280 >> and main street maintenance or 3988 02:32:17,280 --> 02:32:18,880 the main streets main arteries. Yeah. 3989 02:32:18,880 --> 02:32:20,240 >> Because there's how many how many public 3990 02:32:20,240 --> 02:32:21,120 streets are in this? 3991 02:32:21,120 --> 02:32:29,510 >> Aaron, would you put up the site plan? 3992 02:32:29,520 --> 02:32:32,080 So point to the city streets Aaron the 3993 02:32:32,080 --> 02:32:35,359 wider right so U do controls that then 3994 02:32:35,359 --> 02:32:37,600 our city streets are just uh mountain 3995 02:32:37,600 --> 02:32:41,520 Vista and Sierra Vista 3996 02:32:41,520 --> 02:32:42,640 >> so just those two 3997 02:32:42,640 --> 02:32:44,720 >> roads in between and the accesses to the 3998 02:32:44,720 --> 02:32:46,960 different units and commercial spots are 3999 02:32:46,960 --> 02:32:47,520 all private 4000 02:32:47,520 --> 02:32:49,439 >> even that big one 4001 02:32:49,439 --> 02:32:50,000 >> in the middle 4002 02:32:50,000 --> 02:32:52,080 >> the central one and the east west one 4003 02:32:52,080 --> 02:32:53,520 those would be private 4004 02:32:53,520 --> 02:32:54,800 >> really 4005 02:32:54,800 --> 02:32:58,000 >> it's just the curvy mountain vista and 4006 02:32:58,000 --> 02:32:59,680 then Yeah, correct. 4007 02:32:59,680 --> 02:33:07,910 >> It's basically what we already have. 4008 02:33:07,920 --> 02:33:10,640 » A quick question. So, Becky mentioned 4009 02:33:10,640 --> 02:33:12,319 sewer and electric and everything like 4010 02:33:12,319 --> 02:33:14,160 that, but we weren't including that in 4011 02:33:14,160 --> 02:33:16,960 the calculation because those are 4012 02:33:16,960 --> 02:33:19,120 services for which we already are 4013 02:33:19,120 --> 02:33:21,520 recouping the cost of providing it, 4014 02:33:21,520 --> 02:33:24,160 right? Like we charge the residential 4015 02:33:24,160 --> 02:33:26,240 for their trash cans, for electricity 4016 02:33:26,240 --> 02:33:30,479 and everything like that. Is that right? 4017 02:33:30,479 --> 02:33:32,399 >> That's correct. Plus, we're collecting 4018 02:33:32,399 --> 02:33:34,160 impact fees for those things. I would 4019 02:33:34,160 --> 02:33:35,680 hate to split with Springville our 4020 02:33:35,680 --> 02:33:36,880 impact fees. 4021 02:33:36,880 --> 02:33:39,040 >> So, let's be careful about how we 4022 02:33:39,040 --> 02:33:40,960 >> calculate this. 4023 02:33:40,960 --> 02:33:44,880 >> Yeah. And just to to be clear, the 4024 02:33:44,880 --> 02:33:47,840 existing public roads that we already 4025 02:33:47,840 --> 02:33:50,000 have an obligation to plow aren't 4026 02:33:50,000 --> 02:33:51,600 changing, and the new ones that are 4027 02:33:51,600 --> 02:33:53,200 going to be added will be private roads, 4028 02:33:53,200 --> 02:33:54,960 and we won't have an obligation to plow 4029 02:33:54,960 --> 02:33:55,760 them. 4030 02:33:55,760 --> 02:33:56,640 >> Correct. 4031 02:33:56,640 --> 02:33:58,399 >> Okay. Thanks, 4032 02:33:58,399 --> 02:33:59,520 >> mayor. 4033 02:33:59,520 --> 02:34:01,040 >> I was just going to say in reference to 4034 02:34:01,040 --> 02:34:02,880 the school district, they would like to 4035 02:34:02,880 --> 02:34:04,319 have more students. They are losing 4036 02:34:04,319 --> 02:34:06,479 funding because they don't have 4037 02:34:06,479 --> 02:34:08,000 >> students. This would increase property 4038 02:34:08,000 --> 02:34:10,000 tax. This would 4039 02:34:10,000 --> 02:34:12,000 >> and and it's not going to the reason 4040 02:34:12,000 --> 02:34:13,840 that they sometimes get frustrated if 4041 02:34:13,840 --> 02:34:15,439 we're adding students is if we are 4042 02:34:15,439 --> 02:34:17,840 giving a tiff because then we're taking 4043 02:34:17,840 --> 02:34:19,200 that increment. 4044 02:34:19,200 --> 02:34:21,520 >> This has none of that. This is school 4045 02:34:21,520 --> 02:34:23,120 district is not going to be bothered. 4046 02:34:23,120 --> 02:34:24,720 Well, I can't speak for them, but this 4047 02:34:24,720 --> 02:34:26,000 is not going to take money away from the 4048 02:34:26,000 --> 02:34:26,640 school district. 4049 02:34:26,640 --> 02:34:29,359 >> Well, but aren't property taxes included 4050 02:34:29,359 --> 02:34:32,080 in the net benefit calculation? 4051 02:34:32,080 --> 02:34:32,479 >> Yes. 4052 02:34:32,479 --> 02:34:35,600 >> So, so but it's just our portion of the 4053 02:34:35,600 --> 02:34:36,800 school district will always get their 4054 02:34:36,800 --> 02:34:38,479 portion that and they're they're not in 4055 02:34:38,479 --> 02:34:40,479 the Okay. 4056 02:34:40,479 --> 02:34:42,720 >> And they would get the rate of pupil 4057 02:34:42,720 --> 02:34:44,800 unit in addition. So, I I just I don't 4058 02:34:44,800 --> 02:34:47,040 know that would be I'm not saying we 4059 02:34:47,040 --> 02:34:48,560 shouldn't add that all the costs and 4060 02:34:48,560 --> 02:34:50,080 benefits from that into it. I'm just 4061 02:34:50,080 --> 02:34:52,399 saying that more of a benefit than 4062 02:34:52,399 --> 02:34:53,760 >> I think it is a good point, but what I 4063 02:34:53,760 --> 02:34:55,439 was looking at is you get more property 4064 02:34:55,439 --> 02:34:57,200 tax off of a business than you do off of 4065 02:34:57,200 --> 02:34:58,560 a home, 4066 02:34:58,560 --> 02:35:01,280 >> right? And so Springville is necessar 4067 02:35:01,280 --> 02:35:04,399 they're not educating unless they go out 4068 02:35:04,399 --> 02:35:07,359 of area to Nebo School District. They're 4069 02:35:07,359 --> 02:35:09,040 not educating any kids and they're 4070 02:35:09,040 --> 02:35:11,520 getting all that all those taxes. I 4071 02:35:11,520 --> 02:35:13,600 completely agree. I just I think we have 4072 02:35:13,600 --> 02:35:15,600 to consider what else would go here. 4073 02:35:15,600 --> 02:35:18,720 Also, I I mean 4074 02:35:18,720 --> 02:35:20,880 >> Yeah. It's a delegate. It's a delegate 4075 02:35:20,880 --> 02:35:22,560 balance because we're we're trying to 4076 02:35:22,560 --> 02:35:24,640 negotiate 4077 02:35:24,640 --> 02:35:26,160 the best deal for the city but and not 4078 02:35:26,160 --> 02:35:27,760 kill the deal. So that's the balance, 4079 02:35:27,760 --> 02:35:28,160 right? 4080 02:35:28,160 --> 02:35:30,000 >> And the school district has to negotiate 4081 02:35:30,000 --> 02:35:32,319 their deal with them. But you know if 4082 02:35:32,319 --> 02:35:33,760 we're looking at interlocal agreement 4083 02:35:33,760 --> 02:35:36,880 that was my point is you know maybe 4084 02:35:36,880 --> 02:35:38,640 that's something they need to consider 4085 02:35:38,640 --> 02:35:43,200 is a nebo provo negotiation as well 4086 02:35:43,200 --> 02:35:46,880 because this is going to be a provo 4087 02:35:46,880 --> 02:35:50,080 spring negotiation for our portion 4088 02:35:50,080 --> 02:35:52,479 >> and based on my analysis it's about 33% 4089 02:35:52,479 --> 02:35:54,240 more productive to have this mixed use 4090 02:35:54,240 --> 02:35:57,200 in this area versus the PIC what could 4091 02:35:57,200 --> 02:35:59,359 potentially be developed and that is if 4092 02:35:59,359 --> 02:36:01,760 it was there right now. um the burning 4093 02:36:01,760 --> 02:36:03,200 hand is what to in the bush. We don't 4094 02:36:03,200 --> 02:36:06,240 know what would develop in this area or 4095 02:36:06,240 --> 02:36:07,520 when. So 4096 02:36:07,520 --> 02:36:10,160 >> yeah, I think it's a good point. 4097 02:36:10,160 --> 02:36:12,560 >> So we will have the interlocal agreement 4098 02:36:12,560 --> 02:36:15,840 discussion tonight 4099 02:36:15,840 --> 02:36:19,520 first and and then we'll go from there. 4100 02:36:19,520 --> 02:36:20,240 >> Makes sense? 4101 02:36:20,240 --> 02:36:22,080 >> Okay. 4102 02:36:22,080 --> 02:36:25,520 Any other comments? 4103 02:36:25,520 --> 02:36:26,640 >> Okay. 4104 02:36:26,640 --> 02:36:29,439 >> All right. Thank you, Erin. Sorry, I was 4105 02:36:29,439 --> 02:36:31,680 trying to unmute. Um, I'm planning on 4106 02:36:31,680 --> 02:36:33,680 being there tonight, but if I'm not able 4107 02:36:33,680 --> 02:36:36,319 to speak for some reason, I want to be 4108 02:36:36,319 --> 02:36:38,560 echoing the concerns that Jeff has 4109 02:36:38,560 --> 02:36:40,160 raised. So, just know that you're 4110 02:36:40,160 --> 02:36:43,040 doubling his vote there. 4111 02:36:43,040 --> 02:36:43,760 >> Still just one 4112 02:36:43,760 --> 02:36:47,218 >> bubble. You're at one and a half Tim. 4113 02:36:47,218 --> 02:36:47,280 [clears throat] 4114 02:36:47,280 --> 02:36:50,790 >> Yeah. Is that 4115 02:36:50,800 --> 02:36:54,640 » So, let's see. Um, [clears throat] 4116 02:36:54,640 --> 02:36:56,479 Rachel, it's it's number seven on the 4117 02:36:56,479 --> 02:36:58,319 agenda. You have you have the agenda, 4118 02:36:58,319 --> 02:37:03,830 right? 4119 02:37:03,840 --> 02:37:04,560 » So, just 4120 02:37:04,560 --> 02:37:06,560 >> Yeah, I've got it. I I'll be watching 4121 02:37:06,560 --> 02:37:08,399 it. We'll see how it goes. 4122 02:37:08,399 --> 02:37:10,800 >> On that note, Gary, those were supposed 4123 02:37:10,800 --> 02:37:12,800 to be at the beginning. I just noticed 4124 02:37:12,800 --> 02:37:14,960 that mistake. The Springville needs to 4125 02:37:14,960 --> 02:37:18,479 be the beginning for both Craig and I so 4126 02:37:18,479 --> 02:37:21,040 that we can get off and do 4127 02:37:21,040 --> 02:37:23,439 >> Councelor McKay. They are towards the 4128 02:37:23,439 --> 02:37:28,720 beginning originally. Um item. 4129 02:37:28,720 --> 02:37:32,640 So we have items two, three, four, 4130 02:37:32,640 --> 02:37:34,560 and then five. 4131 02:37:34,560 --> 02:37:36,240 >> The chair notes I'm looking at say it's 4132 02:37:36,240 --> 02:37:38,720 15 and 16. 4133 02:37:38,720 --> 02:37:39,280 >> Oh yeah, 4134 02:37:39,280 --> 02:37:41,200 >> it's item seven right now. 4135 02:37:41,200 --> 02:37:42,800 >> It's seven, eight, and nine right now. 4136 02:37:42,800 --> 02:37:44,000 >> Okay, good. 4137 02:37:44,000 --> 02:37:46,640 >> Yeah, it got bumped up. 4138 02:37:46,640 --> 02:37:49,040 >> That works. Thank you. 4139 02:37:49,040 --> 02:37:53,120 >> Okay, very good. All right, we'll take a 4140 02:37:53,120 --> 02:37:54,800 break. 4141 02:37:54,800 --> 02:38:01,910 and reconvene at 2:30 in 7 minutes. 4142 02:38:01,920 --> 02:38:09,429 » Recording stopped. 4143 02:38:09,439 --> 02:38:12,080 » Recording in progress. 4144 02:38:12,080 --> 02:38:14,960 >> Okay, we'll reconvene our council work 4145 02:38:14,960 --> 02:38:16,800 session. 4146 02:38:16,800 --> 02:38:19,439 Yeah. 4147 02:38:19,439 --> 02:38:31,280 >> Our next item is a discussion regarding 4148 02:38:31,280 --> 02:38:33,520 the Vesper Amphitheater. We'll turn the 4149 02:38:33,520 --> 02:38:37,120 time to Brian Bales. Bailis, 4150 02:38:37,120 --> 02:38:39,040 the Vesper project manager. We welcome 4151 02:38:39,040 --> 02:38:43,990 others. 4152 02:38:44,000 --> 02:38:47,085 » Brian, welcome. 4153 02:38:47,085 --> 02:38:52,070 >> [clears throat] 4154 02:38:52,080 --> 02:38:57,280 » Perfect. Um, I was told, Kevin, are we 4155 02:38:57,280 --> 02:38:59,760 um are we going to have other people 4156 02:38:59,760 --> 02:39:01,760 begin the presentation or am I am I 4157 02:39:01,760 --> 02:39:03,840 going to start? I was told that there 4158 02:39:03,840 --> 02:39:04,960 might be a few other people that would 4159 02:39:04,960 --> 02:39:08,560 be presenting before us. 4160 02:39:08,560 --> 02:39:10,880 Have you 4161 02:39:10,880 --> 02:39:13,600 >> Okay, fantastic. 4162 02:39:13,600 --> 02:39:16,080 there. 4163 02:39:16,080 --> 02:39:21,830 >> And so, 4164 02:39:21,840 --> 02:39:37,830 is there a way to share my screen? 4165 02:39:37,840 --> 02:39:39,280 » Perfect. 4166 02:39:39,280 --> 02:39:41,120 And just so you know, um, Brian and 4167 02:39:41,120 --> 02:39:43,280 members of your team, um, three council 4168 02:39:43,280 --> 02:39:45,600 members are joining us via Zoom today 4169 02:39:45,600 --> 02:39:49,840 who are traveling. Craig Christensen, 4170 02:39:49,840 --> 02:39:51,680 >> Rachel, Whipple, 4171 02:39:51,680 --> 02:39:55,349 >> and Katrice M. 4172 02:39:55,359 --> 02:39:59,030 Everybody's here. 4173 02:39:59,040 --> 02:40:00,960 » Fantastic. Thank you. We appreciate the 4174 02:40:00,960 --> 02:40:05,520 opportunity to to present. Um, 4175 02:40:05,520 --> 02:40:08,319 okay. How do I minimize that guy? There 4176 02:40:08,319 --> 02:40:16,550 we go. Okay, I think we're ready. 4177 02:40:16,560 --> 02:40:21,760 Okay. Yes. And the laser pointer. No. 4178 02:40:21,760 --> 02:40:24,479 How do we Is there a way to show our 4179 02:40:24,479 --> 02:40:27,520 screen on there? 4180 02:40:27,520 --> 02:40:30,080 >> So, we can share the presentation on 4181 02:40:30,080 --> 02:40:32,399 Zoom what it looks like, but this screen 4182 02:40:32,399 --> 02:40:36,080 is connected to this computer. 4183 02:40:36,080 --> 02:40:38,640 That actually complicates Can their can 4184 02:40:38,640 --> 02:40:40,319 their presentation be emailed to you and 4185 02:40:40,319 --> 02:40:41,840 you could pull it up for them and flip 4186 02:40:41,840 --> 02:40:43,040 through for them? 4187 02:40:43,040 --> 02:40:45,680 >> Yes. 4188 02:40:45,680 --> 02:40:47,439 Was it like 200 megs 4189 02:40:47,439 --> 02:40:49,439 >> like at least 4190 02:40:49,439 --> 02:40:51,280 >> do we have ability to use a flash drive 4191 02:40:51,280 --> 02:40:55,990 to trans to trans 4192 02:40:56,000 --> 02:40:58,240 » computer? 4193 02:40:58,240 --> 02:41:00,000 I think we want to see his presentation 4194 02:41:00,000 --> 02:41:02,240 especially it's a big part of 4195 02:41:02,240 --> 02:41:03,680 >> I agree. 4196 02:41:03,680 --> 02:41:05,920 >> Can you zoom in on your 4197 02:41:05,920 --> 02:41:15,270 >> computer? Can you just bring up 4198 02:41:15,280 --> 02:41:17,520 if we share the screen on yours then I 4199 02:41:17,520 --> 02:41:19,200 can open Zoom here 4200 02:41:19,200 --> 02:41:21,920 >> and make this 4201 02:41:21,920 --> 02:41:28,309 >> right now sharing screen so people 4202 02:41:28,319 --> 02:41:30,240 » let me help you set up the screen share 4203 02:41:30,240 --> 02:41:32,720 there and then yeah that's a great idea 4204 02:41:32,720 --> 02:41:34,880 guys 4205 02:41:34,880 --> 02:41:39,830 >> yeah I'm Sorry. 4206 02:41:39,840 --> 02:41:42,160 » No, it's fine. Technical limitations 4207 02:41:42,160 --> 02:41:44,160 should be communicated. 4208 02:41:44,160 --> 02:41:46,240 >> All right. Well, if if it falls on 4209 02:41:46,240 --> 02:41:47,680 somebody, it falls on me, Travis, not 4210 02:41:47,680 --> 02:41:48,800 these guys. They'll be great to 4211 02:41:48,800 --> 02:41:51,520 communicate. Oh, no worries. 4212 02:41:51,520 --> 02:41:54,720 It should be good to on my computer. 4213 02:41:54,720 --> 02:41:56,382 It's saying the same thing like that. 4214 02:41:56,382 --> 02:42:02,550 [clears throat] I'm also sharing. 4215 02:42:02,560 --> 02:42:13,349 Can you see his screen from my computer? 4216 02:42:13,359 --> 02:42:14,960 » Oh, wonderful. 4217 02:42:14,960 --> 02:42:16,080 >> Fantastic. 4218 02:42:16,080 --> 02:42:18,319 >> Solution. 4219 02:42:18,319 --> 02:42:19,040 >> Thank you. 4220 02:42:19,040 --> 02:42:20,240 >> Good job. 4221 02:42:20,240 --> 02:42:22,240 >> All righty. 4222 02:42:22,240 --> 02:42:25,280 Okay. Um, we are so excited to be here. 4223 02:42:25,280 --> 02:42:27,200 This has been a long road to get here 4224 02:42:27,200 --> 02:42:29,920 and um there's been a lot of information 4225 02:42:29,920 --> 02:42:31,359 um shared and we're just excited to be 4226 02:42:31,359 --> 02:42:32,399 in front of you having this 4227 02:42:32,399 --> 02:42:35,120 conversation. I think if there were a 4228 02:42:35,120 --> 02:42:36,720 couple of objectives we hope to 4229 02:42:36,720 --> 02:42:38,880 accomplish today, it would be to walk 4230 02:42:38,880 --> 02:42:41,040 away um from this conversation with a 4231 02:42:41,040 --> 02:42:43,040 very clear understanding of what 4232 02:42:43,040 --> 02:42:44,640 additional information is needed for you 4233 02:42:44,640 --> 02:42:46,240 to feel comfortable making this making 4234 02:42:46,240 --> 02:42:48,080 this very very important decision for 4235 02:42:48,080 --> 02:42:50,880 Vasper. Um so we've got a lot of new 4236 02:42:50,880 --> 02:42:52,800 information to share with you. Um, and 4237 02:42:52,800 --> 02:42:56,240 so we'll we'll get right into it. Um, we 4238 02:42:56,240 --> 02:42:57,840 appreciate the countless hours and 4239 02:42:57,840 --> 02:42:59,200 attention and careful consideration 4240 02:42:59,200 --> 02:43:01,040 you've already given the project. You 4241 02:43:01,040 --> 02:43:03,359 guys have read a lot of emails. Uh, 4242 02:43:03,359 --> 02:43:05,200 you've looked at a lot of things to get 4243 02:43:05,200 --> 02:43:07,200 to where we're at. We recognize this is 4244 02:43:07,200 --> 02:43:09,359 a significant and consequential proposal 4245 02:43:09,359 --> 02:43:10,880 and we appreciate the responsibility 4246 02:43:10,880 --> 02:43:13,760 that places on each of you. Vesper is a 4247 02:43:13,760 --> 02:43:16,160 big bold project. It has the potential 4248 02:43:16,160 --> 02:43:18,720 to affect PROBO in meaningful ways. We 4249 02:43:18,720 --> 02:43:20,160 understand that a project of this scale 4250 02:43:20,160 --> 02:43:22,160 deserves careful scrutiny and we also 4251 02:43:22,160 --> 02:43:23,600 believe that that scrutiny has made the 4252 02:43:23,600 --> 02:43:25,840 project better. The project before you 4253 02:43:25,840 --> 02:43:27,200 today is meaningfully different from 4254 02:43:27,200 --> 02:43:29,439 where we started. Community input has 4255 02:43:29,439 --> 02:43:32,160 mattered, city staff input has mattered, 4256 02:43:32,160 --> 02:43:34,080 council feedback, our conversations with 4257 02:43:34,080 --> 02:43:36,240 doorum and other interested parties have 4258 02:43:36,240 --> 02:43:39,439 also resulted in meaningful changes. Um, 4259 02:43:39,439 --> 02:43:41,120 we have made significant adjustments to 4260 02:43:41,120 --> 02:43:43,279 the project itself and strengthened the 4261 02:43:43,279 --> 02:43:45,359 commitments and protections around it. 4262 02:43:45,359 --> 02:43:47,040 We want to show you where those changes 4263 02:43:47,040 --> 02:43:50,399 have led us. Um, we see today um not 4264 02:43:50,399 --> 02:43:52,640 simply as a presentation, but we hope to 4265 02:43:52,640 --> 02:43:54,479 accomplish two things. To show you where 4266 02:43:54,479 --> 02:43:56,319 Vesper stands today and to learn where 4267 02:43:56,319 --> 02:43:58,000 your concerns, questions, or additional 4268 02:43:58,000 --> 02:44:00,160 work still remain. We want to leave 4269 02:44:00,160 --> 02:44:01,920 today with a better understanding of 4270 02:44:01,920 --> 02:44:03,439 what each of you needs in order to 4271 02:44:03,439 --> 02:44:06,319 determine the best path forward. We have 4272 02:44:06,319 --> 02:44:08,080 prepared a structure so we can work 4273 02:44:08,080 --> 02:44:10,240 through the issues in a logical order. 4274 02:44:10,240 --> 02:44:11,760 At the same time, we want this to be 4275 02:44:11,760 --> 02:44:13,760 interactive and flexible. We will pause 4276 02:44:13,760 --> 02:44:15,359 at the end of each major section for 4277 02:44:15,359 --> 02:44:16,960 discussion. And if something needs 4278 02:44:16,960 --> 02:44:19,040 clarification as we go, please jump in. 4279 02:44:19,040 --> 02:44:20,800 If there is an issue that you want to 4280 02:44:20,800 --> 02:44:22,640 spend more time on, we're prepared to do 4281 02:44:22,640 --> 02:44:25,600 that. First, we want to show you where 4282 02:44:25,600 --> 02:44:27,840 Vesper stands today, how it has changed. 4283 02:44:27,840 --> 02:44:29,359 Then we'll walk through the major public 4284 02:44:29,359 --> 02:44:31,200 benefits and the physical transformation 4285 02:44:31,200 --> 02:44:33,279 of the property. We would like to review 4286 02:44:33,279 --> 02:44:35,359 the important economic and fiscal impact 4287 02:44:35,359 --> 02:44:37,680 of Ves Vesper. From there, we want to 4288 02:44:37,680 --> 02:44:39,120 work through the substantive issues, 4289 02:44:39,120 --> 02:44:41,680 traffic, parking, sound, scale, and 4290 02:44:41,680 --> 02:44:44,000 long-term protections. We will then talk 4291 02:44:44,000 --> 02:44:45,359 specifically about the development 4292 02:44:45,359 --> 02:44:46,800 agreement and the distinction between 4293 02:44:46,800 --> 02:44:48,800 what is being committed to now and what 4294 02:44:48,800 --> 02:44:50,399 appropriately remains subject to later 4295 02:44:50,399 --> 02:44:53,279 technical review. After we after we've 4296 02:44:53,279 --> 02:44:54,720 worked through Vesper itself, we want to 4297 02:44:54,720 --> 02:44:56,080 shift separately to the real estate 4298 02:44:56,080 --> 02:44:58,080 purchase agreement. We know each of you 4299 02:44:58,080 --> 02:44:59,279 have strong views about that 4300 02:44:59,279 --> 02:45:01,200 transaction, and we specifically want 4301 02:45:01,200 --> 02:45:03,040 your feedback on it. We want to make 4302 02:45:03,040 --> 02:45:04,399 sure we first understand the project 4303 02:45:04,399 --> 02:45:06,560 itself before we finally get into the 4304 02:45:06,560 --> 02:45:08,399 real estate discussion and let that kind 4305 02:45:08,399 --> 02:45:10,319 of take over the meeting. Finally, we 4306 02:45:10,319 --> 02:45:12,000 want to identify any remaining concerns 4307 02:45:12,000 --> 02:45:14,000 that the work and work that needs to 4308 02:45:14,000 --> 02:45:16,160 happen from here. 4309 02:45:16,160 --> 02:45:18,399 So, the vision for Vesper has come from 4310 02:45:18,399 --> 02:45:20,399 the ownership leadership team. The 4311 02:45:20,399 --> 02:45:21,840 technical information we're presenting 4312 02:45:21,840 --> 02:45:23,680 has been developed with experienced 4313 02:45:23,680 --> 02:45:25,600 local professionals in architecture, 4314 02:45:25,600 --> 02:45:27,520 engineering, legal, finance, and venue 4315 02:45:27,520 --> 02:45:29,600 operations. As we move through the 4316 02:45:29,600 --> 02:45:31,359 specific topics, we will introduce the 4317 02:45:31,359 --> 02:45:33,279 members of the team who have led that 4318 02:45:33,279 --> 02:45:35,359 work and we'll help them uh and we'll 4319 02:45:35,359 --> 02:45:37,040 let them answer the detailed questions 4320 02:45:37,040 --> 02:45:38,880 that you might all have. With that 4321 02:45:38,880 --> 02:45:40,319 framework in mind, I'd like to start by 4322 02:45:40,319 --> 02:45:42,160 showing you where Vesper stands today 4323 02:45:42,160 --> 02:45:43,760 with the project what the project how 4324 02:45:43,760 --> 02:45:45,040 the project has changed through this 4325 02:45:45,040 --> 02:45:46,960 process and what the project before you 4326 02:45:46,960 --> 02:45:50,800 now actually looks like. So these um 4327 02:45:50,800 --> 02:45:52,160 before we get into the individual 4328 02:45:52,160 --> 02:45:53,840 issues, it's important to share where 4329 02:45:53,840 --> 02:45:55,760 the project stands today compared to 4330 02:45:55,760 --> 02:45:58,080 where we started. The project before you 4331 02:45:58,080 --> 02:46:00,000 today is materially different from the 4332 02:46:00,000 --> 02:46:02,399 original concept. The review process has 4333 02:46:02,399 --> 02:46:04,080 resulted in meaningful changes to the 4334 02:46:04,080 --> 02:46:06,319 actual project framework, not just the 4335 02:46:06,319 --> 02:46:08,479 presentation. The original amphitheater 4336 02:46:08,479 --> 02:46:10,880 was 25,000 capacity, which has been 4337 02:46:10,880 --> 02:46:13,920 capped today at 20,000. That is a 20% 4338 02:46:13,920 --> 02:46:16,319 reduction in maximum capacity. We have 4339 02:46:16,319 --> 02:46:18,000 also narrowed the uses that can occur on 4340 02:46:18,000 --> 02:46:20,240 the property. Rather than creating broad 4341 02:46:20,240 --> 02:46:21,920 future development rights, the 4342 02:46:21,920 --> 02:46:23,520 development agreement defines the uses 4343 02:46:23,520 --> 02:46:25,520 that are permitted and ties the property 4344 02:46:25,520 --> 02:46:27,279 to the Vesper project and its supporting 4345 02:46:27,279 --> 02:46:30,319 uses. Parking has also been constrained. 4346 02:46:30,319 --> 02:46:31,920 Instead of allowing surface parking to 4347 02:46:31,920 --> 02:46:33,920 simply grow with demand, surface parking 4348 02:46:33,920 --> 02:46:36,560 is capped at 15 acres that has pushed us 4349 02:46:36,560 --> 02:46:38,560 toward a more thoughtful transportation 4350 02:46:38,560 --> 02:46:40,800 strategy using internal queuing, 4351 02:46:40,800 --> 02:46:43,439 rightsized on-site parking, off-site 4352 02:46:43,439 --> 02:46:45,200 parking, shuttles, ride share, and other 4353 02:46:45,200 --> 02:46:47,600 transportation options. The conservation 4354 02:46:47,600 --> 02:46:49,680 component has become more specific. We 4355 02:46:49,680 --> 02:46:51,760 now have defined obligations around 4356 02:46:51,760 --> 02:46:54,000 undeveloped property, restoration, 4357 02:46:54,000 --> 02:46:56,399 revitation, public trails, and permanent 4358 02:46:56,399 --> 02:46:58,720 conservation. Traffic and parking have 4359 02:46:58,720 --> 02:47:00,080 also been moved from a concept 4360 02:47:00,080 --> 02:47:01,359 discussion to an enforceable 4361 02:47:01,359 --> 02:47:03,600 requirement. Before large-scale 4362 02:47:03,600 --> 02:47:05,840 operations can begin, the project must 4363 02:47:05,840 --> 02:47:07,439 have an approved traffic and parking 4364 02:47:07,439 --> 02:47:09,359 operations plan and obtain the 4365 02:47:09,359 --> 02:47:11,600 applicable city and agency approvals. 4366 02:47:11,600 --> 02:47:13,120 More broadly, many of the exceptions 4367 02:47:13,120 --> 02:47:15,840 that began as project intentions are now 4368 02:47:15,840 --> 02:47:17,760 being incorporated into an enforcable 4369 02:47:17,760 --> 02:47:19,920 development agreement. 4370 02:47:19,920 --> 02:47:21,359 I want to emphasize that these are not 4371 02:47:21,359 --> 02:47:22,640 simply refinements to how we are 4372 02:47:22,640 --> 02:47:24,800 describing Vesper. Rather, these are 4373 02:47:24,800 --> 02:47:26,319 changes to the actual rights, limits, 4374 02:47:26,319 --> 02:47:27,760 and obligations that will govern the 4375 02:47:27,760 --> 02:47:30,960 project. Vesper remains a bold project. 4376 02:47:30,960 --> 02:47:32,800 We have we have tried to make it we have 4377 02:47:32,800 --> 02:47:34,000 not tried to make it small or 4378 02:47:34,000 --> 02:47:35,840 insignificant. What we have tried to do 4379 02:47:35,840 --> 02:47:37,680 is responsibly bound the project while 4380 02:47:37,680 --> 02:47:39,200 preserving the things that make the 4381 02:47:39,200 --> 02:47:42,640 opportunity meaningful. And so um I 4382 02:47:42,640 --> 02:47:44,479 guess before we before we move on to the 4383 02:47:44,479 --> 02:47:45,920 public benefits and the individual 4384 02:47:45,920 --> 02:47:47,520 technical issues and the financial the 4385 02:47:47,520 --> 02:47:50,319 fiscal impacts, are there any changes um 4386 02:47:50,319 --> 02:47:52,479 on this sheet that you would like us to 4387 02:47:52,479 --> 02:47:54,640 clarify or are we are we generally on 4388 02:47:54,640 --> 02:47:59,429 the same page? 4389 02:47:59,439 --> 02:48:01,840 I'm not okay with a lot of things, but I 4390 02:48:01,840 --> 02:48:04,000 mean to ask this is pretty broad, 4391 02:48:04,000 --> 02:48:06,319 especially when we got materials 4392 02:48:06,319 --> 02:48:08,000 yesterday 4393 02:48:08,000 --> 02:48:09,840 night that we haven't had time to look 4394 02:48:09,840 --> 02:48:10,319 at. 4395 02:48:10,319 --> 02:48:11,040 >> Yeah. 4396 02:48:11,040 --> 02:48:12,479 >> Why? Why is that? 4397 02:48:12,479 --> 02:48:13,439 >> Why is what 4398 02:48:13,439 --> 02:48:15,200 >> that we got these materials yesterday 4399 02:48:15,200 --> 02:48:16,880 instead of uh last week? 4400 02:48:16,880 --> 02:48:20,560 >> Um well, because we were finalizing that 4401 02:48:20,560 --> 02:48:22,399 uh financial the fiscal and economic 4402 02:48:22,399 --> 02:48:25,200 impact study. um that information was 4403 02:48:25,200 --> 02:48:27,840 coming in as recently as like yesterday. 4404 02:48:27,840 --> 02:48:29,040 So we were working through those issues 4405 02:48:29,040 --> 02:48:32,479 with Benj Becker to make sure that that information was accurate. 4406 02:48:32,479 --> 02:48:35,359 >> So the date stamp on that for the 24th 4407 02:48:35,359 --> 02:48:36,720 of July is not accurate. 4408 02:48:36,720 --> 02:48:39,680 >> That is not accurate. No. So that was 4409 02:48:39,680 --> 02:48:41,040 the when the original report was 4410 02:48:41,040 --> 02:48:42,479 prepared, but there's been a lot of 4411 02:48:42,479 --> 02:48:44,479 interaction since then that we've had to 4412 02:48:44,479 --> 02:48:46,080 verify and clean up and make sure was 4413 02:48:46,080 --> 02:48:47,040 accurate. 4414 02:48:47,040 --> 02:48:50,479 >> So I'm not I haven't had time to review 4415 02:48:50,479 --> 02:48:51,040 that yet. 4416 02:48:51,040 --> 02:48:53,600 >> Yeah. And I'm not going to tell you that 4417 02:48:53,600 --> 02:48:55,600 everything on here is going to be okay. 4418 02:48:55,600 --> 02:48:57,439 I've got to have time to prep before I 4419 02:48:57,439 --> 02:48:58,160 can 4420 02:48:58,160 --> 02:48:59,520 >> Yeah, we're not asking for you to say 4421 02:48:59,520 --> 02:49:01,120 everything is okay, Becky. Absolutely. 4422 02:49:01,120 --> 02:49:02,319 That's that's that's not what we're 4423 02:49:02,319 --> 02:49:04,080 asking for today. We just wanted to see 4424 02:49:04,080 --> 02:49:06,000 if there were any inconsistencies that 4425 02:49:06,000 --> 02:49:07,680 you saw there that you wanted to have um 4426 02:49:07,680 --> 02:49:09,680 a specific discussion about. In other 4427 02:49:09,680 --> 02:49:12,319 words, councelor Bogden, issues, 4428 02:49:12,319 --> 02:49:14,000 questions that you expect to raise 4429 02:49:14,000 --> 02:49:15,840 today, are are they included in these 4430 02:49:15,840 --> 02:49:18,319 topics or are there other things that 4431 02:49:18,319 --> 02:49:20,560 you anticipate might not be included 4432 02:49:20,560 --> 02:49:22,640 here? 4433 02:49:22,640 --> 02:49:24,160 >> Yes, there are questions that I would 4434 02:49:24,160 --> 02:49:28,309 have with these topics. Yes. 4435 02:49:28,319 --> 02:49:32,560 » How how much of your pre uh 4436 02:49:32,560 --> 02:49:34,720 >> ho how long is your presentation? 4437 02:49:34,720 --> 02:49:35,760 >> Um quite a bit, 4438 02:49:35,760 --> 02:49:37,520 >> I would say. Yeah. I mean, 4439 02:49:37,520 --> 02:49:39,520 >> then I would say let's go ahead and get 4440 02:49:39,520 --> 02:49:41,200 through the presentation and 4441 02:49:41,200 --> 02:49:42,880 >> we can see what it addresses, what it 4442 02:49:42,880 --> 02:49:44,080 doesn't address. That's just my two 4443 02:49:44,080 --> 02:49:45,680 cents. I'm only one of seven council 4444 02:49:45,680 --> 02:49:47,520 members, but I would say let's see what 4445 02:49:47,520 --> 02:49:51,760 you have to say and then I think that'll give Becky an idea of what's not 4446 02:49:51,760 --> 02:49:52,640 covered and 4447 02:49:52,640 --> 02:49:54,960 >> Okay, so let's let's do it then. That's 4448 02:49:54,960 --> 02:49:56,880 great. Um, we start with the fiscal 4449 02:49:56,880 --> 02:49:58,399 impact, Becky. That's the report that 4450 02:49:58,399 --> 02:50:00,479 was submitted yesterday. Um, so at a 4451 02:50:00,479 --> 02:50:02,319 very high level, these are the numbers 4452 02:50:02,319 --> 02:50:04,080 that we are just going to walk through 4453 02:50:04,080 --> 02:50:05,840 really quickly. Um, we've actually had 4454 02:50:05,840 --> 02:50:07,680 some pretty extensive conversations with 4455 02:50:07,680 --> 02:50:10,080 um, Cody Hill on the on the community 4456 02:50:10,080 --> 02:50:12,160 development side. Um, and we've kind of 4457 02:50:12,160 --> 02:50:13,439 coordinated a little bit on those 4458 02:50:13,439 --> 02:50:14,720 numbers to make sure we weren't looking 4459 02:50:14,720 --> 02:50:16,399 at things inaccurately. That was part of 4460 02:50:16,399 --> 02:50:17,600 the coordination that needed to happen, 4461 02:50:17,600 --> 02:50:18,560 Becky, and that was one of the reasons 4462 02:50:18,560 --> 02:50:20,560 why the delay took place. But these are 4463 02:50:20,560 --> 02:50:22,720 the highle assumptions. So, we've got 4464 02:50:22,720 --> 02:50:29,279 $540 million. Um, let's see. At the most basic level, 4465 02:50:29,279 --> 02:50:31,600 Vesper represents more than 540 million 4466 02:50:31,600 --> 02:50:34,319 of initial uh private construction 4467 02:50:34,319 --> 02:50:36,720 investment in Provo. Piper Sandler 4468 02:50:36,720 --> 02:50:38,319 estimates that construction activity 4469 02:50:38,319 --> 02:50:41,279 could generate approximately 864 million 4470 02:50:41,279 --> 02:50:43,840 in total economic impact based on a 4471 02:50:43,840 --> 02:50:46,000 multiplying factor. Um that's very 4472 02:50:46,000 --> 02:50:47,760 consistently applied. That's where you 4473 02:50:47,760 --> 02:50:49,840 get that 864 million. So these are the 4474 02:50:49,840 --> 02:50:52,880 two two numbers. 840 million is based on 4475 02:50:52,880 --> 02:50:56,000 direct construction costs and the 864 4476 02:50:56,000 --> 02:50:57,840 million is based on a multiplying factor 4477 02:50:57,840 --> 02:50:59,359 that that is typically and generally 4478 02:50:59,359 --> 02:51:02,080 accepted as an industry standard um for 4479 02:51:02,080 --> 02:51:03,600 the construction impacts that had that 4480 02:51:03,600 --> 02:51:06,560 they have on the general region. Um the 4481 02:51:06,560 --> 02:51:10,399 fiscal impact to Provo um Piper Sandler 4482 02:51:10,399 --> 02:51:13,120 projects uh the number that I think is 4483 02:51:13,120 --> 02:51:15,279 most relevant to the council is the net 4484 02:51:15,279 --> 02:51:17,680 fiscal impact to Provo. Piper Sandler 4485 02:51:17,680 --> 02:51:19,840 did not simply calculate the taxes the 4486 02:51:19,840 --> 02:51:21,600 project could generate. They also 4487 02:51:21,600 --> 02:51:23,200 modeled additional city expenses 4488 02:51:23,200 --> 02:51:25,200 associated with the project and the new 4489 02:51:25,200 --> 02:51:26,960 population expected to result from the 4490 02:51:26,960 --> 02:51:29,279 employment it creates. After accounting 4491 02:51:29,279 --> 02:51:31,680 for these projected costs, the their 4492 02:51:31,680 --> 02:51:33,600 analysis concludes that Vesper would 4493 02:51:33,600 --> 02:51:35,760 generate an average positive net fiscal 4494 02:51:35,760 --> 02:51:38,800 impact to Provo of approximately 2.3 4495 02:51:38,800 --> 02:51:41,200 million per year. And over a 30-year 4496 02:51:41,200 --> 02:51:43,600 period, 30-year analysis period, that 4497 02:51:43,600 --> 02:51:46,080 equates to approximately 67.2 2 million 4498 02:51:46,080 --> 02:51:49,680 of cumulative net benefit to the city. 4499 02:51:49,680 --> 02:51:52,000 The analysis also assumes that event 4500 02:51:52,000 --> 02:51:54,240 specific police, fire, and emergency 4501 02:51:54,240 --> 02:51:57,040 service costs attributable to Vesper are 4502 02:51:57,040 --> 02:51:58,960 reimbursed by Vesper rather than 4503 02:51:58,960 --> 02:52:00,800 becoming an ongoing burden for on the 4504 02:52:00,800 --> 02:52:03,760 city. As with any 30-year projection, 4505 02:52:03,760 --> 02:52:06,000 these are estimates, not guarantees. The 4506 02:52:06,000 --> 02:52:07,760 analysis relies on the project's current 4507 02:52:07,760 --> 02:52:10,800 land use phasing, employment, and 4508 02:52:10,800 --> 02:52:12,880 financial assumptions, and actual 4509 02:52:12,880 --> 02:52:14,319 results will depend on how the project 4510 02:52:14,319 --> 02:52:16,000 develops and operates. But the 4511 02:52:16,000 --> 02:52:18,160 conclusion of the analysis is clear. 4512 02:52:18,160 --> 02:52:19,760 Under the current project assumptions, 4513 02:52:19,760 --> 02:52:21,680 Piper Sandler expects the economic 4514 02:52:21,680 --> 02:52:23,920 activity and new revenues generated by 4515 02:52:23,920 --> 02:52:26,319 Vesper to substantially exceed the 4516 02:52:26,319 --> 02:52:33,520 incremental costs to Provo. Um, so these analyses kind of looked at both 4517 02:52:33,520 --> 02:52:36,160 the property tax impacts. So that's one 4518 02:52:36,160 --> 02:52:37,520 kind of component that they look at to 4519 02:52:37,520 --> 02:52:39,600 come up with the total $2.3 million and 4520 02:52:39,600 --> 02:52:40,800 then they look at the point of sales 4521 02:52:40,800 --> 02:52:42,880 impacts as well. And so that's where you 4522 02:52:42,880 --> 02:52:45,359 come up with that $2.3 million of 4523 02:52:45,359 --> 02:52:47,439 additional uh net fiscal benefit to 4524 02:52:47,439 --> 02:52:53,439 Provo. So um, what questions h how do we want to break this down? Do we 4525 02:52:53,439 --> 02:52:54,720 want to get into the specifics of this 4526 02:52:54,720 --> 02:52:56,240 or are we good to just keep moving 4527 02:52:56,240 --> 02:52:58,479 forward? 4528 02:52:58,479 --> 02:52:59,920 >> A [clears throat] quick question. Did 4529 02:52:59,920 --> 02:53:03,040 you do the the fiscal impact for ORM as 4530 02:53:03,040 --> 02:53:05,600 well because it's so close? 4531 02:53:05,600 --> 02:53:08,479 >> We did not. No, we did not do the fiscal 4532 02:53:08,479 --> 02:53:10,479 impact to ORM. These would be regional 4533 02:53:10,479 --> 02:53:12,399 impacts. So, I would say it's all 4534 02:53:12,399 --> 02:53:14,800 inclusive in these numbers. Um, so there 4535 02:53:14,800 --> 02:53:16,319 would be a there would be an impact to 4536 02:53:16,319 --> 02:53:18,319 Provo. This was specific to Provo. 4537 02:53:18,319 --> 02:53:20,160 Excuse me. The $2.3 million is specific 4538 02:53:20,160 --> 02:53:22,640 to Provo. and uh and then there would be 4539 02:53:22,640 --> 02:53:24,399 additional impacts to ORM and the in the 4540 02:53:24,399 --> 02:53:26,160 surrounding region. But no, we did not 4541 02:53:26,160 --> 02:53:27,760 look at ORM specifically. These are just 4542 02:53:27,760 --> 02:53:29,279 provo numbers. 4543 02:53:29,279 --> 02:53:30,720 >> But you did have some numbers for the 4544 02:53:30,720 --> 02:53:32,800 county as I recall in there. 4545 02:53:32,800 --> 02:53:35,040 >> Yep. 4546 02:53:35,040 --> 02:53:37,200 >> So, do you have a breakout of this? 4547 02:53:37,200 --> 02:53:40,080 >> Well, that this this is provos in in 4548 02:53:40,080 --> 02:53:42,479 this um study. They had some numbers for 4549 02:53:42,479 --> 02:53:44,560 the county as well where they I think it 4550 02:53:44,560 --> 02:53:46,800 was $6 million regionally that they 4551 02:53:46,800 --> 02:53:48,960 projected. So, of that 6 million, 2 4552 02:53:48,960 --> 02:53:50,800 million is for Provo. The other four 4553 02:53:50,800 --> 02:53:52,560 million would be for other parts of the 4554 02:53:52,560 --> 02:53:53,359 county, right? 4555 02:53:53,359 --> 02:53:55,439 >> If I Don't quote me on that. I might 4556 02:53:55,439 --> 02:53:56,399 have. 4557 02:53:56,399 --> 02:53:59,120 >> Right. But 2.3 is broken down into 4558 02:53:59,120 --> 02:54:00,479 property tax and 4559 02:54:00,479 --> 02:54:02,479 >> Oh, you mean where's that all come from? 4560 02:54:02,479 --> 02:54:03,760 >> Yeah. Where's the breakdown? 4561 02:54:03,760 --> 02:54:05,040 >> I think it's in there. 4562 02:54:05,040 --> 02:54:07,040 >> It's in the report. Yeah. We didn't we 4563 02:54:07,040 --> 02:54:08,240 didn't get into that level of detail, 4564 02:54:08,240 --> 02:54:10,399 but I can pull up the report and we can go through that. 4565 02:54:10,399 --> 02:54:12,319 >> Well, we 4566 02:54:12,319 --> 02:54:13,680 like I said, I haven't had time to go 4567 02:54:13,680 --> 02:54:14,720 through it. I'm sure there's other 4568 02:54:14,720 --> 02:54:17,359 counselors that haven't either. And so 4569 02:54:17,359 --> 02:54:19,279 we probably should, like Travis said, go 4570 02:54:19,279 --> 02:54:21,040 through it and then give us time to 4571 02:54:21,040 --> 02:54:22,319 digest it and go through it because 4572 02:54:22,319 --> 02:54:23,920 there will be more questions once we see 4573 02:54:23,920 --> 02:54:24,880 those breakdowns. 4574 02:54:24,880 --> 02:54:30,230 >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 4575 02:54:30,240 --> 02:54:32,720 Okay. 4576 02:54:32,720 --> 02:54:35,279 Um 4577 02:54:35,279 --> 02:54:40,309 Okay, 4578 02:54:40,319 --> 02:54:43,040 so let's jump into um the next section 4579 02:54:43,040 --> 02:54:45,840 then. 4580 02:54:45,840 --> 02:54:47,520 Um 4581 02:54:47,520 --> 02:54:50,240 so that would be section four. So this 4582 02:54:50,240 --> 02:54:51,600 is the property transformation and 4583 02:54:51,600 --> 02:54:53,920 public benefits section of the of the 4584 02:54:53,920 --> 02:54:56,479 project. So um before we talk about the 4585 02:54:56,479 --> 02:54:57,680 amphitheater, I think it's important 4586 02:54:57,680 --> 02:54:59,760 that we start with the property itself. 4587 02:54:59,760 --> 02:55:02,080 This is not an untouched portion of 4588 02:55:02,080 --> 02:55:04,319 Provo Canyon. It is a longdisturbed 4589 02:55:04,319 --> 02:55:05,680 gravel operation at one of the most 4590 02:55:05,680 --> 02:55:15,750 visible gateways into into the canyon. 4591 02:55:15,760 --> 02:55:17,439 The opportunity is to reclaim and 4592 02:55:17,439 --> 02:55:19,520 improve a disturbed property rather than 4593 02:55:19,520 --> 02:55:21,920 develop a pristine canyon landscape. One 4594 02:55:21,920 --> 02:55:23,359 of the fundamental opportunities with 4595 02:55:23,359 --> 02:55:25,200 Vesper is to take a disturbed property 4596 02:55:25,200 --> 02:55:27,359 in such an iconic and important location 4597 02:55:27,359 --> 02:55:28,960 and create something significantly 4598 02:55:28,960 --> 02:55:31,840 better than what exists today. 4599 02:55:31,840 --> 02:55:34,399 Vesper um so this is the transformation. 4600 02:55:34,399 --> 02:55:36,720 So this is the site today and then this 4601 02:55:36,720 --> 02:55:39,120 is what um the new rendering uh the new 4602 02:55:39,120 --> 02:55:41,600 rendering um that we've got for the site 4603 02:55:41,600 --> 02:55:44,399 which really as you'll notice a lot of 4604 02:55:44,399 --> 02:55:47,359 the structures and and facilities don't 4605 02:55:47,359 --> 02:55:49,439 change that much. The change has been in 4606 02:55:49,439 --> 02:55:50,960 the site plan to really accommodate 4607 02:55:50,960 --> 02:55:53,680 traffic and access to the site. Um those 4608 02:55:53,680 --> 02:55:55,279 are the most important parts as well as 4609 02:55:55,279 --> 02:55:56,640 traffic and some other things. So we'll 4610 02:55:56,640 --> 02:55:58,319 get into the specifics of the site but 4611 02:55:58,319 --> 02:56:00,640 Vesper is not simply placing a venue on 4612 02:56:00,640 --> 02:56:02,479 the site. It creates an opportunity to 4613 02:56:02,479 --> 02:56:04,240 fundamentally improve the character and 4614 02:56:04,240 --> 02:56:06,479 function of the property. The project 4615 02:56:06,479 --> 02:56:08,479 would reclaim large portions of of of 4616 02:56:08,479 --> 02:56:10,479 the disturbed site. It introduces 4617 02:56:10,479 --> 02:56:12,720 restoration and reveation. The 4618 02:56:12,720 --> 02:56:14,399 architecture is intended to respond to 4619 02:56:14,399 --> 02:56:16,319 the canyon setting rather than ignore 4620 02:56:16,319 --> 02:56:18,319 it. The project creates a more 4621 02:56:18,319 --> 02:56:20,000 intentional gateway experience at the 4622 02:56:20,000 --> 02:56:23,279 entrance to Provo Canyon. The project 4623 02:56:23,279 --> 02:56:25,279 public trails, pedestrian connections, 4624 02:56:25,279 --> 02:56:27,439 conservation, and landscape restoration 4625 02:56:27,439 --> 02:56:29,520 are part of a broader site plan. The 4626 02:56:29,520 --> 02:56:31,920 venue itself is only part only one part 4627 02:56:31,920 --> 02:56:34,080 of the transformation. We want the 4628 02:56:34,080 --> 02:56:36,080 council to evaluate the complete site 4629 02:56:36,080 --> 02:56:39,040 outcome, not simply the stage um and 4630 02:56:39,040 --> 02:56:41,359 audience area. The goal is to take a 4631 02:56:41,359 --> 02:56:43,120 heavily altered industrial site and 4632 02:56:43,120 --> 02:56:45,200 convert it into a place that both serves 4633 02:56:45,200 --> 02:56:47,439 public and cultural function. The 4634 02:56:47,439 --> 02:56:48,640 question we have been trying to answer 4635 02:56:48,640 --> 02:56:50,319 is not simply whether an amphitheater 4636 02:56:50,319 --> 02:56:52,319 can fit here. It's whether this property 4637 02:56:52,319 --> 02:56:53,680 can be transformed in a way that 4638 02:56:53,680 --> 02:56:55,520 improves the Canyon Gateway, creates 4639 02:56:55,520 --> 02:56:58,160 meaningful public benefits, and does so 4640 02:56:58,160 --> 02:57:01,120 with long-term protections. 4641 02:57:01,120 --> 02:57:03,359 We think the difference uh between what 4642 02:57:03,359 --> 02:57:05,120 exists today and what can exist here is 4643 02:57:05,120 --> 02:57:06,479 one of the most important parts of the 4644 02:57:06,479 --> 02:57:09,279 Vesper story. 4645 02:57:09,279 --> 02:57:10,800 >> Um yeah, Becky, 4646 02:57:10,800 --> 02:57:13,600 >> go back to that slide. 4647 02:57:13,600 --> 02:57:15,680 Can you go back? Yeah. Okay. So, our 4648 02:57:15,680 --> 02:57:20,550 property there, you can see 4649 02:57:20,560 --> 02:57:22,640 » you can see the road that looks like 4650 02:57:22,640 --> 02:57:25,359 it's a dirt road currently today. What 4651 02:57:25,359 --> 02:57:27,279 What's going on with that? 4652 02:57:27,279 --> 02:57:28,880 >> What's going on with the dirt road 4653 02:57:28,880 --> 02:57:30,640 that's right here? 4654 02:57:30,640 --> 02:57:32,880 >> Yes. And it goes up. What are you doing 4655 02:57:32,880 --> 02:57:35,439 with that? I can't see that portion on 4656 02:57:35,439 --> 02:57:37,279 your drawings. 4657 02:57:37,279 --> 02:57:38,800 >> So, this is what this is what the 4658 02:57:38,800 --> 02:57:40,960 overall site plan, Becky, looks like. 4659 02:57:40,960 --> 02:57:42,560 Um, so we're kind of jumping into that 4660 02:57:42,560 --> 02:57:46,319 this part of the presentation, but let's go ahead and get there. Um, 4661 02:57:46,319 --> 02:57:48,640 there's a flat portion of the property 4662 02:57:48,640 --> 02:57:50,479 that is ideal for additional parking up 4663 02:57:50,479 --> 02:57:52,880 there on that site, Becky. So, that that 4664 02:57:52,880 --> 02:57:55,600 allows us that that's not a gravel road. 4665 02:57:55,600 --> 02:57:57,520 It's a paved road, and it allows us to 4666 02:57:57,520 --> 02:57:59,439 get additional traffic and parking up to 4667 02:57:59,439 --> 02:58:00,399 that site. 4668 02:58:00,399 --> 02:58:01,920 >> So, are we basically doing like a switch 4669 02:58:01,920 --> 02:58:03,520 back and a parking lot and a switch back 4670 02:58:03,520 --> 02:58:04,880 in a parking lot up there? 4671 02:58:04,880 --> 02:58:06,960 >> Uh, no, it wouldn't be a switch back. It 4672 02:58:06,960 --> 02:58:08,399 would be climbing It would be climbing 4673 02:58:08,399 --> 02:58:10,240 from from right here. It would be 4674 02:58:10,240 --> 02:58:12,240 climbing from the parking uh the parking 4675 02:58:12,240 --> 02:58:14,880 field up to that up to that site. 4676 02:58:14,880 --> 02:58:15,680 >> How come we've cut it [clears throat] 4677 02:58:15,680 --> 02:58:17,600 off? How come I can't see like the full 4678 02:58:17,600 --> 02:58:20,000 >> Oh, because because the parking solution 4679 02:58:20,000 --> 02:58:21,439 and event management system, this is a 4680 02:58:21,439 --> 02:58:23,600 big part of this conversation and it 4681 02:58:23,600 --> 02:58:26,319 just is is taken up on that uh to get it 4682 02:58:26,319 --> 02:58:27,120 to fit. 4683 02:58:27,120 --> 02:58:29,680 >> Is there a way that we can get what you 4684 02:58:29,680 --> 02:58:33,840 see going further up that hill? 4685 02:58:33,840 --> 02:58:36,960 like could you get us a more of a a 4686 02:58:36,960 --> 02:58:39,760 better site of what's going on up there? 4687 02:58:39,760 --> 02:58:42,640 >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, is the orange 4688 02:58:42,640 --> 02:58:44,319 that you see there is that that's the 4689 02:58:44,319 --> 02:58:45,520 parking you're talking about or would 4690 02:58:45,520 --> 02:58:46,960 there be additional parking beyond that 4691 02:58:46,960 --> 02:58:47,359 orange? 4692 02:58:47,359 --> 02:58:49,920 >> No. No, that's all the parking. 4693 02:58:49,920 --> 02:58:51,680 >> The orange comprises all of the parking, 4694 02:58:51,680 --> 02:58:53,840 Travis. Yeah, that right now shows 14 4695 02:58:53,840 --> 02:58:56,640 acres of surface parking on the site and 4696 02:58:56,640 --> 02:58:58,399 we're um in the development agreement. 4697 02:58:58,399 --> 02:58:59,920 We've committed to not exceeding 15 4698 02:58:59,920 --> 02:59:01,200 acres. 4699 02:59:01,200 --> 02:59:02,960 That's a there's a current road that 4700 02:59:02,960 --> 02:59:05,520 goes up that on the Provo City side. 4701 02:59:05,520 --> 02:59:06,319 >> Yeah, 4702 02:59:06,319 --> 02:59:07,920 >> there's a there's a current road that 4703 02:59:07,920 --> 02:59:09,200 goes up that side already. 4704 02:59:09,200 --> 02:59:09,760 >> Dirt, right? 4705 02:59:09,760 --> 02:59:10,160 >> Yep. 4706 02:59:10,160 --> 02:59:11,200 >> That's what I was talking about. That's 4707 02:59:11,200 --> 02:59:13,520 a dirt road already. And so what I can't 4708 02:59:13,520 --> 02:59:15,439 see is that an acres worth of parking 4709 02:59:15,439 --> 02:59:18,000 that you have up that dirt road. I can't 4710 02:59:18,000 --> 02:59:20,720 even see how that that looks. That's 4711 02:59:20,720 --> 02:59:22,640 part of why I wanted the elevations. I 4712 02:59:22,640 --> 02:59:24,080 wanted to see what was going on with 4713 02:59:24,080 --> 02:59:24,800 that. 4714 02:59:24,800 --> 02:59:25,200 >> Yeah. 4715 02:59:25,200 --> 02:59:26,160 >> That hillside. 4716 02:59:26,160 --> 02:59:26,960 >> Yeah. Yeah. No, that's 4717 02:59:26,960 --> 02:59:28,640 >> And I can't I can't see that in any of 4718 02:59:28,640 --> 02:59:30,319 the rendering. I I appreciate the 4719 02:59:30,319 --> 02:59:32,399 renderings because I did ask for them. I 4720 02:59:32,399 --> 02:59:33,680 think it was Craig and I that asked for 4721 02:59:33,680 --> 02:59:34,319 them, 4722 02:59:34,319 --> 02:59:36,080 >> but I can't see what's going on in any 4723 02:59:36,080 --> 02:59:38,880 of this. And then if we go back, 4724 02:59:38,880 --> 02:59:40,240 >> some of the stuff that was pointed out 4725 02:59:40,240 --> 02:59:41,680 to me through 4726 02:59:41,680 --> 02:59:44,000 >> my communications with ORM city council. 4727 02:59:44,000 --> 02:59:44,479 >> Uhhuh. 4728 02:59:44,479 --> 02:59:46,960 >> We've got that roundabout there and then 4729 02:59:46,960 --> 02:59:49,920 we've got a flyway. Nope. 4730 02:59:49,920 --> 02:59:51,439 >> The round the other roundabout right 4731 02:59:51,439 --> 02:59:51,760 there. 4732 02:59:51,760 --> 02:59:53,200 >> Yeah. Then we've got a flyway coming 4733 02:59:53,200 --> 02:59:55,680 from their parks and stuff like that. 4734 02:59:55,680 --> 02:59:58,000 One of the concerns they had is Vesper 4735 02:59:58,000 --> 03:00:01,279 people parking at their parking lots and 4736 03:00:01,279 --> 03:00:03,439 walking across that flyway, right? 4737 03:00:03,439 --> 03:00:05,359 >> What What have we got in plan for 4738 03:00:05,359 --> 03:00:07,680 protecting some of those or parks? And 4739 03:00:07,680 --> 03:00:09,439 why why do we have that going over that 4740 03:00:09,439 --> 03:00:10,640 far anyway? 4741 03:00:10,640 --> 03:00:12,160 >> This this fly over. 4742 03:00:12,160 --> 03:00:16,319 >> Yes, it's starts here 4743 03:00:16,319 --> 03:00:19,120 at this roundabout parks and it flies 4744 03:00:19,120 --> 03:00:20,319 over there. Right. 4745 03:00:20,319 --> 03:00:22,080 >> Right. That's just to get access to that 4746 03:00:22,080 --> 03:00:24,319 parking structure there, Becky. in order 4747 03:00:24,319 --> 03:00:27,359 to get so there will not be access 4748 03:00:27,359 --> 03:00:29,359 there. So part of one of one of the UD 4749 03:00:29,359 --> 03:00:31,120 do uh one of the UD do concerns that 4750 03:00:31,120 --> 03:00:33,840 they've had Becky is the left turns. So 4751 03:00:33,840 --> 03:00:35,359 if you're coming if you're coming out of 4752 03:00:35,359 --> 03:00:38,240 Provo and Oram and you're going up 189 4753 03:00:38,240 --> 03:00:40,160 taking a left turn into the Canyon View 4754 03:00:40,160 --> 03:00:42,960 Park um as well as Mount Tanogus Park, 4755 03:00:42,960 --> 03:00:45,279 those are problematic left turns. And so 4756 03:00:45,279 --> 03:00:46,560 one of the things that UD do has 4757 03:00:46,560 --> 03:00:48,640 consistently said all along is they 4758 03:00:48,640 --> 03:00:50,960 would like to if possible get rid of 4759 03:00:50,960 --> 03:00:53,920 those left turns. And so right now the 4760 03:00:53,920 --> 03:00:56,720 left turn to get into Canyon View Park 4761 03:00:56,720 --> 03:00:58,640 goes away the way that it exists right 4762 03:00:58,640 --> 03:01:00,160 now, which it would be located about 4763 03:01:00,160 --> 03:01:01,920 right there. And we've we've met 4764 03:01:01,920 --> 03:01:03,439 extensively with the ORM city council 4765 03:01:03,439 --> 03:01:05,760 and the provo and the mayor uh Karen 4766 03:01:05,760 --> 03:01:07,279 McCandless here the last couple of 4767 03:01:07,279 --> 03:01:08,720 weeks. So we've been able to clarify a 4768 03:01:08,720 --> 03:01:10,240 lot of this information with them, 4769 03:01:10,240 --> 03:01:12,479 Becky. Um but right now if you were 4770 03:01:12,479 --> 03:01:13,600 coming in and you wanted to go over to 4771 03:01:13,600 --> 03:01:16,399 the Canyon View Park, you'd come in uh 4772 03:01:16,399 --> 03:01:18,720 on Vesper. Probably the better exhibit 4773 03:01:18,720 --> 03:01:20,960 is to go to this one. 4774 03:01:20,960 --> 03:01:22,240 Okay. Okay. So, essentially what you're 4775 03:01:22,240 --> 03:01:24,880 doing is you're you're it's a it's an 4776 03:01:24,880 --> 03:01:27,840 ancillary benefit of this is you're 4777 03:01:27,840 --> 03:01:29,920 creating a left-hand turn into the park. 4778 03:01:29,920 --> 03:01:30,720 >> That's right. 4779 03:01:30,720 --> 03:01:34,640 >> This it's not to accommodate the Vesper 4780 03:01:34,640 --> 03:01:35,439 >> um no 4781 03:01:35,439 --> 03:01:36,479 >> concert traffic. 4782 03:01:36,479 --> 03:01:36,960 >> No. 4783 03:01:36,960 --> 03:01:37,279 >> Okay. 4784 03:01:37,279 --> 03:01:39,120 >> No, it's not to accommodate the V vesper 4785 03:01:39,120 --> 03:01:42,640 concert traffic. And ORM ORM ORM has has 4786 03:01:42,640 --> 03:01:44,479 liked the fact that I mean we we've been 4787 03:01:44,479 --> 03:01:45,680 communicating with ORM some of the 4788 03:01:45,680 --> 03:01:47,200 things that they need on their park. One 4789 03:01:47,200 --> 03:01:48,479 of the concerns that they've had, the 4790 03:01:48,479 --> 03:01:50,000 two two major concerns that they've had 4791 03:01:50,000 --> 03:01:52,319 is just policing. So, we've kind of had 4792 03:01:52,319 --> 03:01:53,920 conversations with them about policing 4793 03:01:53,920 --> 03:01:56,080 and and making sure we're patrolling and 4794 03:01:56,080 --> 03:01:57,680 we're offsetting their additional costs 4795 03:01:57,680 --> 03:01:59,520 to this. The other big concern that 4796 03:01:59,520 --> 03:02:00,880 they've had is just what happens to the 4797 03:02:00,880 --> 03:02:03,279 park if they have in the event of a 4798 03:02:03,279 --> 03:02:05,200 concert and they have a they have a 4799 03:02:05,200 --> 03:02:06,800 wedding or something, a reception there, 4800 03:02:06,800 --> 03:02:08,000 what happens? And so we've been 4801 03:02:08,000 --> 03:02:10,000 coordinating with them to say we would 4802 03:02:10,000 --> 03:02:12,160 probably just rent the entire park out 4803 03:02:12,160 --> 03:02:14,319 as one potential solution is that we 4804 03:02:14,319 --> 03:02:15,760 would rent the park out for the nights 4805 03:02:15,760 --> 03:02:17,439 that we have those major concert events 4806 03:02:17,439 --> 03:02:18,640 and then we would just manage all of 4807 03:02:18,640 --> 03:02:20,479 that. We would manage the parking. We 4808 03:02:20,479 --> 03:02:22,000 would manage we would use their facility 4809 03:02:22,000 --> 03:02:24,399 to allow people to arrive. Yeah. So all 4810 03:02:24,399 --> 03:02:25,520 of those things are very much on the 4811 03:02:25,520 --> 03:02:26,880 table. Spencer. 4812 03:02:26,880 --> 03:02:29,279 >> So that's their their parking issue is 4813 03:02:29,279 --> 03:02:30,720 that you would just rent it out and then 4814 03:02:30,720 --> 03:02:32,560 allow your people to park and then cross 4815 03:02:32,560 --> 03:02:32,960 that 4816 03:02:32,960 --> 03:02:33,359 >> correct 4817 03:02:33,359 --> 03:02:35,359 >> flyway. That that flyway is really 4818 03:02:35,359 --> 03:02:36,880 important, Becky. That's another I would 4819 03:02:36,880 --> 03:02:38,319 say of the two most important things 4820 03:02:38,319 --> 03:02:40,560 that UD do has consistently said, it's 4821 03:02:40,560 --> 03:02:42,479 getting rid of those left turns. 4822 03:02:42,479 --> 03:02:44,080 >> Well, number one, it's safety and 4823 03:02:44,080 --> 03:02:45,520 efficiency. Those are the two major 4824 03:02:45,520 --> 03:02:47,600 priorities by far and away. Then, as 4825 03:02:47,600 --> 03:02:49,600 kind of a subtitles or or kind of 4826 03:02:49,600 --> 03:02:51,120 details, additional details to the 4827 03:02:51,120 --> 03:02:53,279 project, it's number one, getting rid of 4828 03:02:53,279 --> 03:02:54,800 those left turns into both of those 4829 03:02:54,800 --> 03:02:56,960 parks. And then number two, it's making 4830 03:02:56,960 --> 03:02:59,120 sure we have a pedestrian crossing to 4831 03:02:59,120 --> 03:03:01,760 get from Provo River Trail and and the 4832 03:03:01,760 --> 03:03:03,520 Bonavville Shoreline Trail and some kind 4833 03:03:03,520 --> 03:03:06,080 of a crossing over 189 safely into the 4834 03:03:06,080 --> 03:03:07,600 site. So those are those are all 4835 03:03:07,600 --> 03:03:08,880 important components to this and that's 4836 03:03:08,880 --> 03:03:10,640 where you see that dashed green line 4837 03:03:10,640 --> 03:03:12,479 right there. Becky, that's an important 4838 03:03:12,479 --> 03:03:14,560 part of this overall project. Spencer 4839 03:03:14,560 --> 03:03:16,800 >> Ryan, just let me reiterate, UD do 4840 03:03:16,800 --> 03:03:19,200 really doesn't want lefts or rights that 4841 03:03:19,200 --> 03:03:22,640 are crossing the road. So they wanted us 4842 03:03:22,640 --> 03:03:26,160 to work with ORM city and even to the 4843 03:03:26,160 --> 03:03:30,479 point that Oram city on their very far I 4844 03:03:30,479 --> 03:03:31,840 don't know if you call that north or 4845 03:03:31,840 --> 03:03:34,640 east of where the pond is just above the 4846 03:03:34,640 --> 03:03:37,600 pond where you enter their park to the 4847 03:03:37,600 --> 03:03:39,520 point that they want us to try to 4848 03:03:39,520 --> 03:03:43,040 connect our on ramp so that there isn't 4849 03:03:43,040 --> 03:03:45,760 a lefthand turn going up to Heber from 4850 03:03:45,760 --> 03:03:49,439 that position. So the really is this is 4851 03:03:49,439 --> 03:03:52,479 kind of a global effort to work with Orm 4852 03:03:52,479 --> 03:03:56,240 City and us to try to help take away all 4853 03:03:56,240 --> 03:03:58,080 of the left and right-hand turns that 4854 03:03:58,080 --> 03:04:02,710 were cross traffic. 4855 03:04:02,720 --> 03:04:05,600 So um Becky, that that overpass is one 4856 03:04:05,600 --> 03:04:07,120 of these public benefits that we're we 4857 03:04:07,120 --> 03:04:08,560 were going to kind of get into the 4858 03:04:08,560 --> 03:04:11,200 details of. Sorry, Commissioner Bogdan. 4859 03:04:11,200 --> 03:04:14,000 Uh Council Member Boggden. Um, so that 4860 03:04:14,000 --> 03:04:15,680 overpass right now we're currently 4861 03:04:15,680 --> 03:04:17,520 planning on it be being three lanes. 4862 03:04:17,520 --> 03:04:19,600 of traffic. One of the 4863 03:04:19,600 --> 03:04:21,760 middle lane would be birectional. So one 4864 03:04:21,760 --> 03:04:24,160 lane would be going, one lane would be 4865 03:04:24,160 --> 03:04:25,359 coming and then the middle lane would be 4866 03:04:25,359 --> 03:04:27,439 birectional based on the traffic flow. 4867 03:04:27,439 --> 03:04:29,040 So on the way in you would have two 4868 03:04:29,040 --> 03:04:30,640 lanes of traffic coming in and then on 4869 03:04:30,640 --> 03:04:31,840 the way out you would have two lanes of 4870 03:04:31,840 --> 03:04:33,760 traffic going out. The third the fourth 4871 03:04:33,760 --> 03:04:35,200 component to that would be the 4872 03:04:35,200 --> 03:04:37,520 pedestrian crossing. So we would have uh 4873 03:04:37,520 --> 03:04:39,439 hikers and bikers that could get back 4874 03:04:39,439 --> 03:04:41,040 and forth across that bridge very very 4875 03:04:41,040 --> 03:04:43,840 easily which again from Vesper getting 4876 03:04:43,840 --> 03:04:45,359 them over to those two parks. There's a 4877 03:04:45,359 --> 03:04:46,640 lot of really cool amenities that are 4878 03:04:46,640 --> 03:04:48,240 over there and likewise we think people 4879 03:04:48,240 --> 03:04:49,680 will be coming from those parks over to 4880 03:04:49,680 --> 03:04:51,439 Vesper. So those connections are all 4881 03:04:51,439 --> 03:04:52,960 very very critically important for what 4882 03:04:52,960 --> 03:04:54,399 we're what we're talking about with the 4883 03:04:54,399 --> 03:04:55,840 site. 4884 03:04:55,840 --> 03:05:00,560 >> Um so uh Becky you you did you did also 4885 03:05:00,560 --> 03:05:03,680 ask about the elevations. um we would 4886 03:05:03,680 --> 03:05:06,399 like to those were in the report. These 4887 03:05:06,399 --> 03:05:08,000 are these are the elevations and it 4888 03:05:08,000 --> 03:05:09,200 doesn't show on the lefth hand side 4889 03:05:09,200 --> 03:05:11,439 there where that where that um where 4890 03:05:11,439 --> 03:05:12,800 that parking lot is that additional 4891 03:05:12,800 --> 03:05:14,319 parking lot would be you know right over 4892 03:05:14,319 --> 03:05:15,920 here or something like that. So we can 4893 03:05:15,920 --> 03:05:17,279 absolutely do a better job of showing 4894 03:05:17,279 --> 03:05:20,720 where that's at. This exhibit does kind 4895 03:05:20,720 --> 03:05:24,000 of show it. Um again this cuts the site 4896 03:05:24,000 --> 03:05:27,200 in in half north to south. And so let's 4897 03:05:27,200 --> 03:05:28,399 spend a few minutes looking at this 4898 03:05:28,399 --> 03:05:29,920 exhibit because it contains a lot of 4899 03:05:29,920 --> 03:05:31,359 information that I feel like is really 4900 03:05:31,359 --> 03:05:33,439 important, but it does show that parking 4901 03:05:33,439 --> 03:05:36,399 lot kind of um uh up the hill there. Um 4902 03:05:36,399 --> 03:05:38,240 and so that's what that would look like. 4903 03:05:38,240 --> 03:05:40,479 Um the reason why this elevation is so 4904 03:05:40,479 --> 03:05:42,479 important because it does kind of show 4905 03:05:42,479 --> 03:05:44,160 the distance. You know, that road is 4906 03:05:44,160 --> 03:05:46,319 loud out there. Um if you go out there 4907 03:05:46,319 --> 03:05:48,319 and you look at the the the decibel 4908 03:05:48,319 --> 03:05:52,000 reading from the road, it's it's hard to have a conversation at the 4909 03:05:52,000 --> 03:05:53,359 Canyon View Park when you're sitting at 4910 03:05:53,359 --> 03:05:55,359 the pavilion across across the way 4911 03:05:55,359 --> 03:05:58,000 there. Um, and so we want we felt like 4912 03:05:58,000 --> 03:05:59,439 that was important to be able to have 4913 03:05:59,439 --> 03:06:01,680 that that elevation separation from the 4914 03:06:01,680 --> 03:06:03,520 road. And so you come up to the parking 4915 03:06:03,520 --> 03:06:04,960 and you've got the surface parking 4916 03:06:04,960 --> 03:06:06,479 there. Then you've got additional 4917 03:06:06,479 --> 03:06:08,640 structures here which would include all 4918 03:06:08,640 --> 03:06:11,439 of the concessions and the merch uh will 4919 03:06:11,439 --> 03:06:13,680 call some of those types of of uses. 4920 03:06:13,680 --> 03:06:15,600 Then you'd have a plaza that would be 4921 03:06:15,600 --> 03:06:17,279 again significantly screened and 4922 03:06:17,279 --> 03:06:19,359 buffered from the road. And then you'd 4923 03:06:19,359 --> 03:06:20,800 have this is where the stage would be 4924 03:06:20,800 --> 03:06:22,479 located and then the stage and the 4925 03:06:22,479 --> 03:06:24,640 amphitheater would be from there. So 4926 03:06:24,640 --> 03:06:27,760 right now we are asking for an exception 4927 03:06:27,760 --> 03:06:31,439 um of the height restriction up of up to 4928 03:06:31,439 --> 03:06:34,800 125 ft for the fly loft and performance 4929 03:06:34,800 --> 03:06:37,760 related uh operations of the project. So 4930 03:06:37,760 --> 03:06:39,760 this elevation again I think really 4931 03:06:39,760 --> 03:06:41,920 clearly shows you know the amphitheater 4932 03:06:41,920 --> 03:06:44,560 itself uh maybe exceeds the 125 foot 4933 03:06:44,560 --> 03:06:46,720 height just a little bit. Um but then it 4934 03:06:46,720 --> 03:06:48,880 really provides a lot of space needed to 4935 03:06:48,880 --> 03:06:50,479 separate us from the road and the other 4936 03:06:50,479 --> 03:06:52,000 ambient noise with the river and some of 4937 03:06:52,000 --> 03:06:53,520 those other things to get up to the 4938 03:06:53,520 --> 03:06:54,880 actual amphitheater itself. So the 4939 03:06:54,880 --> 03:06:56,880 performers aren't being impacted by the 4940 03:06:56,880 --> 03:06:58,479 road and some of those other noises. Uh 4941 03:06:58,479 --> 03:06:59,600 so it's a great experience for the 4942 03:06:59,600 --> 03:07:01,439 guests and the performers. 4943 03:07:01,439 --> 03:07:03,439 >> Brian, why is that an exception? What's 4944 03:07:03,439 --> 03:07:05,520 the current height requirement? The 4945 03:07:05,520 --> 03:07:08,319 current height for SC3 right now is 75 4946 03:07:08,319 --> 03:07:08,800 ft. 4947 03:07:08,800 --> 03:07:09,680 >> Okay. So, 4948 03:07:09,680 --> 03:07:12,160 >> so we we are committing because one of 4949 03:07:12,160 --> 03:07:13,920 the concerns again from the public and 4950 03:07:13,920 --> 03:07:15,120 other folks has been one of the things 4951 03:07:15,120 --> 03:07:16,960 that we are committing to is to restrict 4952 03:07:16,960 --> 03:07:19,520 that further from 75 down to 50. 4953 03:07:19,520 --> 03:07:20,640 >> So, right now in the development 4954 03:07:20,640 --> 03:07:22,720 agreement, our height for all buildings 4955 03:07:22,720 --> 03:07:24,160 with the exception of these these 4956 03:07:24,160 --> 03:07:26,000 structures that we just talked about are 4957 03:07:26,000 --> 03:07:27,040 50 feet. 4958 03:07:27,040 --> 03:07:28,880 >> And that that includes the hotel, that 4959 03:07:28,880 --> 03:07:30,080 includes everything that we've talked 4960 03:07:30,080 --> 03:07:31,760 about the any of the retail, any of 4961 03:07:31,760 --> 03:07:33,600 those any of those types of uh any of 4962 03:07:33,600 --> 03:07:36,560 those types of uses. hotel, retail, um 4963 03:07:36,560 --> 03:07:38,160 maintenance buildings, all of that. 50 4964 03:07:38,160 --> 03:07:40,399 feet will be the height uh limitation 4965 03:07:40,399 --> 03:07:43,520 except for again the fly loft. And then 4966 03:07:43,520 --> 03:07:47,359 this structure is um is uh it's kind of 4967 03:07:47,359 --> 03:07:49,920 like you can take it off, you can expand 4968 03:07:49,920 --> 03:07:52,399 it in the in the summer months and then 4969 03:07:52,399 --> 03:07:53,760 in the winter months you can take that 4970 03:07:53,760 --> 03:07:56,000 off. So it's it's uh that structure 4971 03:07:56,000 --> 03:07:57,520 right there might need to be adjusted 4972 03:07:57,520 --> 03:07:58,960 and be a little bit higher than the 50 4973 03:07:58,960 --> 03:08:01,439 ft requirement. So, we can go up to 125 4974 03:08:01,439 --> 03:08:03,600 ft on that structure as well, just so 4975 03:08:03,600 --> 03:08:05,760 that it's not impacting the guests view 4976 03:08:05,760 --> 03:08:07,439 of the performers as you get into the 4977 03:08:07,439 --> 03:08:09,279 amphitheater. Jeff, 4978 03:08:09,279 --> 03:08:12,160 >> what what is the height from the road 4979 03:08:12,160 --> 03:08:15,200 elevation to that first uh basically the 4980 03:08:15,200 --> 03:08:17,200 level of the parking lot? 4981 03:08:17,200 --> 03:08:19,840 >> I would say it's 30 feet, although I 4982 03:08:19,840 --> 03:08:21,200 don't know that I have that number right 4983 03:08:21,200 --> 03:08:23,840 off the top of my the tip of my tongue. 4984 03:08:23,840 --> 03:08:24,240 >> Okay. 4985 03:08:24,240 --> 03:08:25,680 >> Um but yeah, we could we could get that 4986 03:08:25,680 --> 03:08:26,080 number. 4987 03:08:26,080 --> 03:08:28,000 >> Probably pretty close to 30 feet. 4988 03:08:28,000 --> 03:08:28,880 >> Thank you. Yeah, 4989 03:08:28,880 --> 03:08:30,560 >> Gary. I think it's also helpful that the 4990 03:08:30,560 --> 03:08:33,520 50 feet is limited to three stories. 4991 03:08:33,520 --> 03:08:34,880 That's that's helpful. 4992 03:08:34,880 --> 03:08:37,359 >> Yeah, that's a great point, Bill. 4993 03:08:37,359 --> 03:08:39,920 >> So, where's the bottom trail from here? 4994 03:08:39,920 --> 03:08:40,960 Finish that out right there. 4995 03:08:40,960 --> 03:08:42,880 >> That's a great question, Becky. Let's 4996 03:08:42,880 --> 03:08:45,120 jump to uh let's jump to that. That's 4997 03:08:45,120 --> 03:08:47,840 kind of buried uh deep in the slide here 4998 03:08:47,840 --> 03:08:51,840 in the slide deck. No, it's not. 4999 03:08:51,840 --> 03:08:56,240 Okay. So, in this area, in this general 5000 03:08:56,240 --> 03:08:57,840 area right here is kind of the ridge 5001 03:08:57,840 --> 03:09:00,319 line that comes down from KF Peak. Um, 5002 03:09:00,319 --> 03:09:03,200 and so the Bonavville Shoreline Trail up 5003 03:09:03,200 --> 03:09:04,880 south of the site comes right here and 5004 03:09:04,880 --> 03:09:07,359 then it it ducks over and goes down and 5005 03:09:07,359 --> 03:09:09,520 connects all the way up to to 189. 5006 03:09:09,520 --> 03:09:11,279 >> Can we go back to the other because 5007 03:09:11,279 --> 03:09:13,279 looking at the sky view down that's why 5008 03:09:13,279 --> 03:09:14,800 I wanted elevations, right? 5009 03:09:14,800 --> 03:09:18,319 >> Oh, if we could go back to the elevation 5010 03:09:18,319 --> 03:09:19,840 on the other one that you just had. 5011 03:09:19,840 --> 03:09:21,200 >> It's not on that sheet. It would be on 5012 03:09:21,200 --> 03:09:22,000 the other side of the ridge. You 5013 03:09:22,000 --> 03:09:24,560 couldn't see it from that location. 5014 03:09:24,560 --> 03:09:26,720 >> So, it's not even where you can see it. 5015 03:09:26,720 --> 03:09:28,880 >> Not even visible. No, it's not even 5016 03:09:28,880 --> 03:09:30,000 visible on the 5017 03:09:30,000 --> 03:09:31,600 >> Is there going to be any trail system 5018 03:09:31,600 --> 03:09:32,960 that's going to be on this? 5019 03:09:32,960 --> 03:09:34,720 >> Absolutely. Yeah, we have that in the 5020 03:09:34,720 --> 03:09:35,760 development agreement. We have 5021 03:09:35,760 --> 03:09:37,520 significant amounts of of restoration 5022 03:09:37,520 --> 03:09:39,439 and trails that we're talking about 5023 03:09:39,439 --> 03:09:42,319 doing. So, this this maybe is the heart 5024 03:09:42,319 --> 03:09:43,920 of the conversation and we'll get into 5025 03:09:43,920 --> 03:09:45,920 the specifics of this with the council, 5026 03:09:45,920 --> 03:09:48,560 but um the administration the mayor and 5027 03:09:48,560 --> 03:09:49,920 the administration really kind of beat 5028 03:09:49,920 --> 03:09:52,560 us up in terms of kind of negotiating 5029 03:09:52,560 --> 03:09:54,160 the terms of the purchase and sales 5030 03:09:54,160 --> 03:09:56,720 agreement. And part of that was she 5031 03:09:56,720 --> 03:09:59,200 said, "Look, I'm going to try to get um 5032 03:09:59,200 --> 03:10:01,120 as much as I can from the developer in 5033 03:10:01,120 --> 03:10:03,760 this in this in this process, but then 5034 03:10:03,760 --> 03:10:05,600 really it's a city council." I think she 5035 03:10:05,600 --> 03:10:07,359 heard the the the conversation loud and 5036 03:10:07,359 --> 03:10:08,479 clear. I don't want to speak for you, 5037 03:10:08,479 --> 03:10:10,960 mayor, but it's like um Becky, I think 5038 03:10:10,960 --> 03:10:12,399 it was you that focused on it. Maybe 5039 03:10:12,399 --> 03:10:14,000 Jeff, I I can't remember all the folks, 5040 03:10:14,000 --> 03:10:15,600 but in previous meetings, it's been 5041 03:10:15,600 --> 03:10:16,880 something that it's like, hey, look, the 5042 03:10:16,880 --> 03:10:18,800 council needs to have a vote and a say 5043 03:10:18,800 --> 03:10:20,800 in this purchase agreement and how that 5044 03:10:20,800 --> 03:10:23,840 works. And so, right now, again, our 5045 03:10:23,840 --> 03:10:26,080 proposal is that we would be acquiring 5046 03:10:26,080 --> 03:10:28,399 66 acres from the city in order for all 5047 03:10:28,399 --> 03:10:29,920 of this to work. And as part of that 5048 03:10:29,920 --> 03:10:32,000 commitment, we would be putting anything 5049 03:10:32,000 --> 03:10:34,960 outside of the the footprint of Vesper 5050 03:10:34,960 --> 03:10:36,800 into a conservation easement, a deed 5051 03:10:36,800 --> 03:10:38,479 restricted conservation easement, which 5052 03:10:38,479 --> 03:10:40,560 is like a double layer of protection. So 5053 03:10:40,560 --> 03:10:41,760 that's currently in the development 5054 03:10:41,760 --> 03:10:45,760 agreement right now. And the way that would work is this is probably a 5055 03:10:45,760 --> 03:10:48,240 good exhibit to kind of explain this. We 5056 03:10:48,240 --> 03:10:51,279 would not be um so this is this is the 5057 03:10:51,279 --> 03:10:53,200 city property in blue there. That's the 5058 03:10:53,200 --> 03:10:55,040 property there on the upper side of the 5059 03:10:55,040 --> 03:10:56,880 page. And then this is the property that 5060 03:10:56,880 --> 03:10:58,880 we will be that we will be acquiring. 5061 03:10:58,880 --> 03:11:00,960 The light blue then is the footprint of 5062 03:11:00,960 --> 03:11:03,600 where Vesper sits. And so anything that 5063 03:11:03,600 --> 03:11:05,120 you can see there and then the red 5064 03:11:05,120 --> 03:11:07,439 outline shows the existing disturbance 5065 03:11:07,439 --> 03:11:09,040 that has happened in the area over the 5066 03:11:09,040 --> 03:11:10,479 previous generations or decades or 5067 03:11:10,479 --> 03:11:13,120 whatever. And so all of Vesper fit fits 5068 03:11:13,120 --> 03:11:15,200 within that footprint. And then any of 5069 03:11:15,200 --> 03:11:17,439 this additional property that we will we 5070 03:11:17,439 --> 03:11:19,200 will be purchasing from Provo but not 5071 03:11:19,200 --> 03:11:21,120 developing as part of Vesper, we would 5072 03:11:21,120 --> 03:11:22,880 be putting into a conservation easement. 5073 03:11:22,880 --> 03:11:25,520 And that's that's this exhibit here. So 5074 03:11:25,520 --> 03:11:26,720 our commitment in the development 5075 03:11:26,720 --> 03:11:29,439 agreement is that up to 50% of the 5076 03:11:29,439 --> 03:11:30,800 property that we would be purchasing 5077 03:11:30,800 --> 03:11:34,560 from Provo City. So of that 66 acres we 5078 03:11:34,560 --> 03:11:36,880 would be putting and this is the math 5079 03:11:36,880 --> 03:11:41,269 right here. Um 5080 03:11:41,279 --> 03:11:44,000 sorry I'm getting all jumbled around. Uh 5081 03:11:44,000 --> 03:11:48,469 it's right here. 5082 03:11:48,479 --> 03:11:52,800 Oh my gosh. I'm sorry. Here we go. Okay. 5083 03:11:52,800 --> 03:11:56,000 So of the 66.47 47 acres that we would 5084 03:11:56,000 --> 03:11:59,760 be acquiring from Provo City. 39.99 5085 03:11:59,760 --> 03:12:02,800 acres of it um would be we would 5086 03:12:02,800 --> 03:12:05,760 transfer 39.99 acres in terms of this 5087 03:12:05,760 --> 03:12:07,760 property here which is up Provo Canyon 5088 03:12:07,760 --> 03:12:09,920 up near Vivian Park. We would transfer 5089 03:12:09,920 --> 03:12:12,399 that as as a trade for the property and 5090 03:12:12,399 --> 03:12:13,600 we would put all of that into a 5091 03:12:13,600 --> 03:12:16,000 conservation easement. And then of the 5092 03:12:16,000 --> 03:12:17,840 site that we would be acquiring the 66 5093 03:12:17,840 --> 03:12:19,680 acres, we would we would voluntarily be 5094 03:12:19,680 --> 03:12:22,319 putting 33 acres of that back into a 5095 03:12:22,319 --> 03:12:24,319 conservation easement. So, as you look 5096 03:12:24,319 --> 03:12:27,279 at this 39 acres plus the 33 acres of 5097 03:12:27,279 --> 03:12:29,200 the Vesper site, that gets you to the 5098 03:12:29,200 --> 03:12:32,479 73.22 acres. So, there's a net increase 5099 03:12:32,479 --> 03:12:35,760 in city ownership or active conservation 5100 03:12:35,760 --> 03:12:38,960 of 6.75 acres. So, it's a net increase. 5101 03:12:38,960 --> 03:12:40,560 >> What exactly? Do you have a map that 5102 03:12:40,560 --> 03:12:42,080 shows what exactly would be in a 5103 03:12:42,080 --> 03:12:43,840 conservation easement? 5104 03:12:43,840 --> 03:12:46,880 >> Uh, no. Right now, our commitment is 50% 5105 03:12:46,880 --> 03:12:48,800 of the site that we're acquiring from. 5106 03:12:48,800 --> 03:12:52,319 You don't have the specifics on how much 5107 03:12:52,319 --> 03:12:53,920 you're going to utilize and how much is 5108 03:12:53,920 --> 03:12:55,040 going to go back into it? 5109 03:12:55,040 --> 03:12:56,960 >> Well, it will be it will be a minimum of 5110 03:12:56,960 --> 03:12:59,920 33.23 acres, but the act exact location 5111 03:12:59,920 --> 03:13:01,439 we can't finalize until we've complete 5112 03:13:01,439 --> 03:13:03,200 the design of the project. 5113 03:13:03,200 --> 03:13:06,080 >> Okay. And then who is it that holds the 5114 03:13:06,080 --> 03:13:08,399 conservation easement? And who is it 5115 03:13:08,399 --> 03:13:13,600 that has so is it you with the who how 5116 03:13:13,600 --> 03:13:16,000 does that exactly work? Is it Provo City 5117 03:13:16,000 --> 03:13:17,680 that's going to be the landowner at that 5118 03:13:17,680 --> 03:13:18,800 point? And then we're going to have a 5119 03:13:18,800 --> 03:13:21,120 conservation easement with someone else. 5120 03:13:21,120 --> 03:13:22,800 >> Um I I think all of those things are 5121 03:13:22,800 --> 03:13:25,279 open. Those are all possibilities. Um I 5122 03:13:25,279 --> 03:13:26,720 don't know that we have the specifics 5123 03:13:26,720 --> 03:13:28,880 >> and then you guys pay the however much 5124 03:13:28,880 --> 03:13:30,560 it is the cost to put it in the 5125 03:13:30,560 --> 03:13:31,200 conservation. 5126 03:13:31,200 --> 03:13:32,479 >> Conservation. Correct. 5127 03:13:32,479 --> 03:13:34,479 >> I think I think that needs to be 5128 03:13:34,479 --> 03:13:36,080 >> stated Yeah. 5129 03:13:36,080 --> 03:13:36,640 >> Explicitly. 5130 03:13:36,640 --> 03:13:38,880 >> Yeah. Because it's pretty vague. 5131 03:13:38,880 --> 03:13:40,479 >> We've tried to be as clear as we can. 5132 03:13:40,479 --> 03:13:42,080 These are all good points. So I think 5133 03:13:42,080 --> 03:13:43,600 making sure it's clear who the 5134 03:13:43,600 --> 03:13:45,120 conservation easement is with is an 5135 03:13:45,120 --> 03:13:47,600 important consideration. And then um 5136 03:13:47,600 --> 03:13:49,040 >> who holds the easement and then who 5137 03:13:49,040 --> 03:13:50,080 holds the property, right? 5138 03:13:50,080 --> 03:13:51,439 >> And then who holds the property 5139 03:13:51,439 --> 03:13:54,800 >> and who's going to pay for that? Because 5140 03:13:54,800 --> 03:13:56,399 what was it, Marcia? What how much did 5141 03:13:56,399 --> 03:13:58,399 we pay for this Lake Canyon when was it? 5142 03:13:58,399 --> 03:14:00,720 Well, it wasn't as they raised 10,000. 5143 03:14:00,720 --> 03:14:02,560 >> Was it 10,000? Yeah. 5144 03:14:02,560 --> 03:14:05,359 >> Yeah. I mean, somebody 5145 03:14:05,359 --> 03:14:08,720 can comment on 5146 03:14:08,720 --> 03:14:10,960 >> Yeah. Slate Canyon Conservation Nation 5147 03:14:10,960 --> 03:14:12,720 is unique because it's city- owned 5148 03:14:12,720 --> 03:14:14,239 property and so we're going through a 5149 03:14:14,239 --> 03:14:17,359 city a public benefit process. Whereas 5150 03:14:17,359 --> 03:14:19,040 this, if it was owned by a private 5151 03:14:19,040 --> 03:14:21,200 entity, it enters into a different 5152 03:14:21,200 --> 03:14:23,680 process wherein the land owner would 5153 03:14:23,680 --> 03:14:25,520 have to pay or someone else would have 5154 03:14:25,520 --> 03:14:27,760 to put the cost to put that part of the 5155 03:14:27,760 --> 03:14:29,680 parcel into the easement and pay for 5156 03:14:29,680 --> 03:14:31,840 those development rights. And then the 5157 03:14:31,840 --> 03:14:33,520 easement would have to be held by a 5158 03:14:33,520 --> 03:14:35,680 third party. So, whoever the land owner 5159 03:14:35,680 --> 03:14:38,000 is would have to figure that out, figure 5160 03:14:38,000 --> 03:14:40,319 out the cost of what the land would be, 5161 03:14:40,319 --> 03:14:41,920 appraise it, and then pay for the 5162 03:14:41,920 --> 03:14:45,279 easement. So, I don't know if the city 5163 03:14:45,279 --> 03:14:47,680 would be a partner in that if they're 5164 03:14:47,680 --> 03:14:50,479 the land owner. We wouldn't I don't that 5165 03:14:50,479 --> 03:14:52,239 would all have to be details figured 5166 03:14:52,239 --> 03:14:54,319 out. We wouldn't be the land owner if 5167 03:14:54,319 --> 03:14:55,920 they bought it, but then they would have 5168 03:14:55,920 --> 03:14:58,560 to be the ones responsible to go through 5169 03:14:58,560 --> 03:15:00,080 the whole process of putting it back. 5170 03:15:00,080 --> 03:15:01,760 Then they would set the terms of the 5171 03:15:01,760 --> 03:15:03,600 ement with whoever then was holding the 5172 03:15:03,600 --> 03:15:04,560 ement 5173 03:15:04,560 --> 03:15:05,040 >> well 5174 03:15:05,040 --> 03:15:07,120 >> and agree on the cost of the 5175 03:15:07,120 --> 03:15:08,880 >> well and then it would be is it public 5176 03:15:08,880 --> 03:15:10,640 benefit if you guys put in a 5177 03:15:10,640 --> 03:15:12,720 conservation ement right people couldn't 5178 03:15:12,720 --> 03:15:15,040 necessarily hike on it if that's so I 5179 03:15:15,040 --> 03:15:16,479 think I think those are terms that we 5180 03:15:16,479 --> 03:15:16,800 need 5181 03:15:16,800 --> 03:15:18,479 >> they need to be clarified 5182 03:15:18,479 --> 03:15:20,640 >> yeah our intent Becky is that we want 5183 03:15:20,640 --> 03:15:22,720 Vesper to be a really important trail 5184 03:15:22,720 --> 03:15:24,640 head for everything that the forest 5185 03:15:24,640 --> 03:15:29,359 service is doing south and I guess all the way around the property. So from 5186 03:15:29,359 --> 03:15:31,520 our perspective right now, the gun range 5187 03:15:31,520 --> 03:15:33,840 significantly limits the ability to 5188 03:15:33,840 --> 03:15:35,520 provide hiking and opportunities up in 5189 03:15:35,520 --> 03:15:37,520 there. And so all of these changes would 5190 03:15:37,520 --> 03:15:38,800 be changes that would have to be worked 5191 03:15:38,800 --> 03:15:41,359 together. And and we want to be a trail 5192 03:15:41,359 --> 03:15:43,200 head for people to access all of those 5193 03:15:43,200 --> 03:15:43,760 trails. 5194 03:15:43,760 --> 03:15:45,279 >> But it's a private trail head race. 5195 03:15:45,279 --> 03:15:46,960 >> It's it's it would be it would be a 5196 03:15:46,960 --> 03:15:48,239 private trail head that would have 5197 03:15:48,239 --> 03:15:50,080 conservation easements and deed 5198 03:15:50,080 --> 03:15:51,760 restrictions on them. And we would want 5199 03:15:51,760 --> 03:15:53,359 the public to use them. Absolutely. 5200 03:15:53,359 --> 03:15:55,120 >> Well, that I think that needs to be a 5201 03:15:55,120 --> 03:15:57,359 part of the specifics in the development 5202 03:15:57,359 --> 03:15:59,359 agreement. We feel like it is, but if it 5203 03:15:59,359 --> 03:16:00,080 needs to be clarified, 5204 03:16:00,080 --> 03:16:03,040 >> I think it needs to be clear. 5205 03:16:03,040 --> 03:16:05,439 >> Yeah. 5206 03:16:05,439 --> 03:16:07,200 >> Those are all things that we can add 5207 03:16:07,200 --> 03:16:11,510 clarifications to. 5208 03:16:11,520 --> 03:16:12,960 » Jeff, councelor Whitlock. 5209 03:16:12,960 --> 03:16:14,800 >> Yeah, I just uh had a couple questions 5210 03:16:14,800 --> 03:16:17,439 here. So, yeah, I appreciate seeing this 5211 03:16:17,439 --> 03:16:19,680 overview slide of the economic develop 5212 03:16:19,680 --> 03:16:21,200 economic impact. 5213 03:16:21,200 --> 03:16:23,040 >> Um, I haven't had a chance to go on the 5214 03:16:23,040 --> 03:16:24,399 numbers of the most recent materials you 5215 03:16:24,399 --> 03:16:24,800 send. 5216 03:16:24,800 --> 03:16:27,040 >> Yeah. But I'm wondering, do you know or 5217 03:16:27,040 --> 03:16:28,640 have any idea yet about how many 5218 03:16:28,640 --> 03:16:32,080 household uh carrying incomes this uh 5219 03:16:32,080 --> 03:16:33,840 project would offer? 5220 03:16:33,840 --> 03:16:35,920 >> There was an estimate um there was an 5221 03:16:35,920 --> 03:16:38,000 estimate in there based on a quick 5222 03:16:38,000 --> 03:16:39,760 analysis that they looked at to say of 5223 03:16:39,760 --> 03:16:41,600 those living in Provo, how many of how 5224 03:16:41,600 --> 03:16:43,120 many of those residents work in Provo? 5225 03:16:43,120 --> 03:16:45,279 >> No, I'm more asking like I imagine it's 5226 03:16:45,279 --> 03:16:46,560 a lot of part-time jobs. I'm talking 5227 03:16:46,560 --> 03:16:48,399 about like full-time salary jobs paying 5228 03:16:48,399 --> 03:16:49,920 a livable wage for Provo. 5229 03:16:49,920 --> 03:16:51,200 >> Correct. And they make an assumption 5230 03:16:51,200 --> 03:16:52,479 there of what that number is. Yeah. 5231 03:16:52,479 --> 03:16:54,000 >> Okay. Okay. Do you know that number off 5232 03:16:54,000 --> 03:16:54,640 the top of your head? 5233 03:16:54,640 --> 03:16:57,680 >> I I want to say it's uh it's like two 5234 03:16:57,680 --> 03:16:59,920 200, but I don't know that for a fact. I 5235 03:16:59,920 --> 03:17:01,920 think it was like 24% of the total 5236 03:17:01,920 --> 03:17:04,640 employee uh employ uh jobs that are 5237 03:17:04,640 --> 03:17:06,640 created of the 900 and whatever that 5238 03:17:06,640 --> 03:17:08,000 number is. Let me just pull it up again 5239 03:17:08,000 --> 03:17:10,640 really quickly. It's I think 957 5240 03:17:10,640 --> 03:17:11,040 jobs. 5241 03:17:11,040 --> 03:17:12,239 >> Yeah, 957 jobs. 5242 03:17:12,239 --> 03:17:14,800 >> Um I think I think about 20 to 24% of 5243 03:17:14,800 --> 03:17:19,120 those are full-time local jobs. And then 5244 03:17:19,120 --> 03:17:22,160 so I you you said that on the rendering 5245 03:17:22,160 --> 03:17:25,439 you showed 14 acres it's on on ground 5246 03:17:25,439 --> 03:17:26,000 parking 5247 03:17:26,000 --> 03:17:26,560 >> correct. 5248 03:17:26,560 --> 03:17:28,399 >> Do you know how many stalls that is? 5249 03:17:28,399 --> 03:17:30,239 >> Yes. 5250 03:17:30,239 --> 03:17:32,720 >> Um 5251 03:17:32,720 --> 03:17:34,560 is there a way for us to just take a 5252 03:17:34,560 --> 03:17:36,399 step back and focus on traffic and 5253 03:17:36,399 --> 03:17:37,600 parking kind of together? 5254 03:17:37,600 --> 03:17:37,920 >> Sure. 5255 03:17:37,920 --> 03:17:39,439 >> I think if we could if we could do that 5256 03:17:39,439 --> 03:17:41,840 and then come back to to your question 5257 03:17:41,840 --> 03:17:43,600 um Commissioner Wlock or Council Member 5258 03:17:43,600 --> 03:17:45,439 Wlock, I think that would be maybe a 5259 03:17:45,439 --> 03:17:47,600 good way to approach it. Um there's a 5260 03:17:47,600 --> 03:17:50,000 lot of questions on traffic and parking. 5261 03:17:50,000 --> 03:17:51,680 Um so I think I think from my 5262 03:17:51,680 --> 03:17:53,359 perspective I' I'd like to be able to do 5263 03:17:53,359 --> 03:17:56,640 that. So if that's okay. Um I think the 5264 03:17:56,640 --> 03:17:58,479 assessment that's really important to 5265 03:17:58,479 --> 03:18:02,319 analyze is just how does the traffic get 5266 03:18:02,319 --> 03:18:06,080 to Vesper? Um shoot. 5267 03:18:06,080 --> 03:18:07,920 Uh I thought it would show up the slide 5268 03:18:07,920 --> 03:18:09,600 that I was on. Let me see if I can get 5269 03:18:09,600 --> 03:18:12,479 that to show up. Okay. So the the 5270 03:18:12,479 --> 03:18:14,560 question becomes um it looks like Rachel 5271 03:18:14,560 --> 03:18:16,880 has has a question. Rachel, if uh if we 5272 03:18:16,880 --> 03:18:18,560 can if we can talk about traffic and 5273 03:18:18,560 --> 03:18:20,960 parking um and then maybe if if that 5274 03:18:20,960 --> 03:18:22,000 addresses your question, would that be 5275 03:18:22,000 --> 03:18:23,200 okay? Or did you want to did you want to 5276 03:18:23,200 --> 03:18:27,349 chime in right now? 5277 03:18:27,359 --> 03:18:29,120 » That's fine. You can go ahead. I'm 5278 03:18:29,120 --> 03:18:30,880 writing down my questions so I won't 5279 03:18:30,880 --> 03:18:31,920 lose them. 5280 03:18:31,920 --> 03:18:33,680 >> Okay, perfect. Great. 5281 03:18:33,680 --> 03:18:37,200 >> Okay. And how much time do we have? When are you guys out of here? What? 5282 03:18:37,200 --> 03:18:40,080 >> So, let's target uh 4 for the 5283 03:18:40,080 --> 03:18:40,960 presentation. 5284 03:18:40,960 --> 03:18:41,439 >> Okay. 5285 03:18:41,439 --> 03:18:42,960 >> But then technically we can go till 5286 03:18:42,960 --> 03:18:43,760 4:30. 5287 03:18:43,760 --> 03:18:46,239 >> Okay. Uh another item was continued. 5288 03:18:46,239 --> 03:18:46,640 Okay. 5289 03:18:46,640 --> 03:18:50,880 >> So more interaction with um you close 5290 03:18:50,880 --> 03:18:51,279 meeting 5291 03:18:51,279 --> 03:18:52,319 >> at 4:30, right? 5292 03:18:52,319 --> 03:18:53,520 >> At 4. 5293 03:18:53,520 --> 03:18:55,760 >> How how long has that been? 5294 03:18:55,760 --> 03:18:58,822 >> Yes, we have. It's 5295 03:18:58,822 --> 03:18:59,040 [snorts] 5296 03:18:59,040 --> 03:19:04,800 >> So I think we can do that from 4:30 to 5:20. 5297 03:19:04,800 --> 03:19:07,760 Maybe. Let's do four. Let's do 420 5298 03:19:07,760 --> 03:19:10,560 >> because we we can eat during the um 5299 03:19:10,560 --> 03:19:13,279 during the close session. 5300 03:19:13,279 --> 03:19:15,359 Okay, thank you. So, we have till 4 5301 03:19:15,359 --> 03:19:17,520 o'clock. So, to present 5302 03:19:17,520 --> 03:19:19,200 >> Okay, we'll we'll get through traffic in 5303 03:19:19,200 --> 03:19:21,920 probably 5 to 10 minutes. Um, the way 5304 03:19:21,920 --> 03:19:24,560 that this works is we've got 10% right 5305 03:19:24,560 --> 03:19:27,279 now. Um, our traffic engineering and and 5306 03:19:27,279 --> 03:19:28,720 the analysis that's been done is we've 5307 03:19:28,720 --> 03:19:29,840 gone and looked at several different 5308 03:19:29,840 --> 03:19:31,760 events to say what is the range of 5309 03:19:31,760 --> 03:19:34,319 traffic that's coming from Provo Orum 5310 03:19:34,319 --> 03:19:36,960 versus coming from Heaper. And right now 5311 03:19:36,960 --> 03:19:38,960 we can show we could justify in the 5312 03:19:38,960 --> 03:19:42,000 traffic analysis as high as 35% coming 5313 03:19:42,000 --> 03:19:44,000 from Heber kind of that side because if 5314 03:19:44,000 --> 03:19:45,680 you could imagine if you're up in Davis 5315 03:19:45,680 --> 03:19:48,319 County um or somewhere near I80 and 5316 03:19:48,319 --> 03:19:49,920 you're like hey I'm looking at traveling 5317 03:19:49,920 --> 03:19:52,880 south to Vesper on a Friday afternoon at 5318 03:19:52,880 --> 03:19:55,920 4:30 5:00 it's going to be very very 5319 03:19:55,920 --> 03:19:57,359 challenging very difficult lots of 5320 03:19:57,359 --> 03:19:59,680 traffic. So it it a lot of that a lot of 5321 03:19:59,680 --> 03:20:01,279 times that traffic can take you up over 5322 03:20:01,279 --> 03:20:03,040 parleys. When I'm coming down from Davis 5323 03:20:03,040 --> 03:20:04,160 County, that's where it takes me a lot 5324 03:20:04,160 --> 03:20:06,800 of times uh to get down into Provo. Um 5325 03:20:06,800 --> 03:20:08,560 so we could we could see this number 5326 03:20:08,560 --> 03:20:10,479 going significantly higher than the 10% 5327 03:20:10,479 --> 03:20:12,239 that's currently being proposed right 5328 03:20:12,239 --> 03:20:13,760 now. But that's the number that we feel 5329 03:20:13,760 --> 03:20:15,359 like is conservative and it would only 5330 03:20:15,359 --> 03:20:18,479 get better um from there. Then 90% the 5331 03:20:18,479 --> 03:20:20,720 other 90% would come then from ORM and 5332 03:20:20,720 --> 03:20:23,040 Provo. And that traffic is likewise 5333 03:20:23,040 --> 03:20:26,399 split with a 45 universe 45% traffic 5334 03:20:26,399 --> 03:20:29,439 coming up university and a 55% coming up 5335 03:20:29,439 --> 03:20:31,600 8th north. So that's kind of the way 5336 03:20:31,600 --> 03:20:33,200 that the traffic arrives at the site 5337 03:20:33,200 --> 03:20:36,640 right now. Um I think it it it needs to 5338 03:20:36,640 --> 03:20:39,680 be talked about um that right now we 5339 03:20:39,680 --> 03:20:44,000 have 3.5 people 3.5 people per vehicle 5340 03:20:44,000 --> 03:20:46,720 showing up at the site. Um and so that's 5341 03:20:46,720 --> 03:20:48,880 the assumption that UD do has agreed to. 5342 03:20:48,880 --> 03:20:50,399 Um, that's the number that we're that 5343 03:20:50,399 --> 03:20:51,760 we're coming that we're coming that 5344 03:20:51,760 --> 03:20:53,520 we're kind of finalizing as the parking 5345 03:20:53,520 --> 03:20:55,600 stalls that are necessary. And that 5346 03:20:55,600 --> 03:20:57,680 number, again, we're kind of in in in 5347 03:20:57,680 --> 03:21:01,520 current um review of those numbers and trying to figure out all these 5348 03:21:01,520 --> 03:21:03,600 specifics right now. Um, but if you take 5349 03:21:03,600 --> 03:21:05,840 the 20,000 and you divide that by the 5350 03:21:05,840 --> 03:21:09,840 3.5, that gets you to 5,700 stalls. So, 5351 03:21:09,840 --> 03:21:11,439 we're we're looking to be somewhere 5352 03:21:11,439 --> 03:21:15,600 between 4,500 stalls right now and 5,700 5353 03:21:15,600 --> 03:21:18,000 stalls. Right now, Provo City's 5354 03:21:18,000 --> 03:21:20,160 ordinances suggest that we would need 5355 03:21:20,160 --> 03:21:22,960 about 5,100 stalls. So, that's kind of 5356 03:21:22,960 --> 03:21:24,479 the number that we're looking at is 5357 03:21:24,479 --> 03:21:26,960 somewhere in that range. And so, as you 5358 03:21:26,960 --> 03:21:29,040 look at that, when you look at any event 5359 03:21:29,040 --> 03:21:31,920 of of this type of magnitude, this data 5360 03:21:31,920 --> 03:21:34,239 comes specifically from USANA. So, this 5361 03:21:34,239 --> 03:21:36,080 data that we're getting in terms of when 5362 03:21:36,080 --> 03:21:37,920 people arrive at an event, this comes 5363 03:21:37,920 --> 03:21:40,319 from USANA. So, right now, we've got 5364 03:21:40,319 --> 03:21:41,840 three hours before the event, you've got 5365 03:21:41,840 --> 03:21:44,720 6% of the population that shows up. um 5366 03:21:44,720 --> 03:21:46,640 two hours before the event you've got an 5367 03:21:46,640 --> 03:21:49,600 additional 12% 25% shows up an hour 5368 03:21:49,600 --> 03:21:52,160 before and then um that that you know 5369 03:21:52,160 --> 03:21:54,080 this is the hour before the event start 5370 03:21:54,080 --> 03:21:57,359 is 38%. And so right now uh and then 5371 03:21:57,359 --> 03:21:58,880 again some additional traffic that comes 5372 03:21:58,880 --> 03:22:01,040 in to the site after after the event 5373 03:22:01,040 --> 03:22:02,800 starts because people are running late 5374 03:22:02,800 --> 03:22:04,080 or they don't want to deal with the 5375 03:22:04,080 --> 03:22:06,960 traffic. Um, so then what we did is we 5376 03:22:06,960 --> 03:22:08,960 analyzed this and said, "Okay, of this 5377 03:22:08,960 --> 03:22:13,760 traffic that's arriving at the site, the the most critical part of it is is a 5378 03:22:13,760 --> 03:22:16,720 maximum capacity event." So all winter 5379 03:22:16,720 --> 03:22:18,560 long, our events are much much smaller. 5380 03:22:18,560 --> 03:22:20,319 A maximum capacity event in the winter 5381 03:22:20,319 --> 03:22:22,319 is 8,000 people. We can't fit any more 5382 03:22:22,319 --> 03:22:24,000 than 8,000. We're not really even 5383 03:22:24,000 --> 03:22:25,600 analyzing that because those traffic 5384 03:22:25,600 --> 03:22:27,600 impacts are going to be negligible. They 5385 03:22:27,600 --> 03:22:29,040 really will not be very significant for 5386 03:22:29,040 --> 03:22:31,840 an 8,000 person event. um as you start 5387 03:22:31,840 --> 03:22:34,720 getting into the 14, you know, 18 20,000 5388 03:22:34,720 --> 03:22:36,479 person events, that's where this number 5389 03:22:36,479 --> 03:22:38,239 starts to come in. And so this is the 5390 03:22:38,239 --> 03:22:41,040 split in terms of the specific traffic. 5391 03:22:41,040 --> 03:22:42,560 We we haven't looked at the specific 5392 03:22:42,560 --> 03:22:43,840 traffic. What we did is we kind of 5393 03:22:43,840 --> 03:22:45,920 equated these numbers to what is the 5394 03:22:45,920 --> 03:22:47,920 impact in terms of time. So if you're 5395 03:22:47,920 --> 03:22:50,479 getting off of 8th North on I-15, what 5396 03:22:50,479 --> 03:22:52,239 is the impact in time to get to the 5397 03:22:52,239 --> 03:22:53,840 mouth of the canyon? And then it's the 5398 03:22:53,840 --> 03:22:55,520 same way as you're getting off of 5399 03:22:55,520 --> 03:22:56,800 another one of the cross streets, 5400 03:22:56,800 --> 03:22:58,640 whether it's Center Street in Orum or 5401 03:22:58,640 --> 03:23:00,399 University Avenue, getting up to 5402 03:23:00,399 --> 03:23:02,080 University Parkway to come up to the 5403 03:23:02,080 --> 03:23:04,880 site. Um those are the delays that we've 5404 03:23:04,880 --> 03:23:06,880 looked at and we're still finalizing 5405 03:23:06,880 --> 03:23:11,760 this as late as last night. This um the the traffic the way that it works 5406 03:23:11,760 --> 03:23:13,040 right now is if you're getting off of 5407 03:23:13,040 --> 03:23:15,200 I-15 to get to the mouth of the canyon, 5408 03:23:15,200 --> 03:23:17,279 that delay right now uh without any 5409 03:23:17,279 --> 03:23:20,640 delays is about 5 to 6 minutes. And then 5410 03:23:20,640 --> 03:23:22,560 if you add the PM peak hour, so you're 5411 03:23:22,560 --> 03:23:24,479 talking about the traffic, that delay 5412 03:23:24,479 --> 03:23:26,000 takes about eight minutes to get to the 5413 03:23:26,000 --> 03:23:28,319 mouth of the canyon. So the impacts that 5414 03:23:28,319 --> 03:23:29,680 we would be talking about putting on 5415 03:23:29,680 --> 03:23:32,000 these roads in the event of a maximum 5416 03:23:32,000 --> 03:23:34,880 capacity event in the PM peak of 1100 5417 03:23:34,880 --> 03:23:37,120 vehicles that equates that 38% equates 5418 03:23:37,120 --> 03:23:39,520 to,00 vehicles on 8th North. That is 5419 03:23:39,520 --> 03:23:41,920 that equates to an 8m minute delay on 5420 03:23:41,920 --> 03:23:44,560 8th North in addition to the PMP the 5421 03:23:44,560 --> 03:23:46,640 normal PMP traffic that would be there. 5422 03:23:46,640 --> 03:23:48,399 So that's the event that's that's the 5423 03:23:48,399 --> 03:23:50,239 impact that we're talking about on these 5424 03:23:50,239 --> 03:23:52,239 roads. And then it's a similar type 5425 03:23:52,239 --> 03:23:53,600 analysis that we've talked about on 5426 03:23:53,600 --> 03:23:55,840 university. So if you take again a 5427 03:23:55,840 --> 03:23:57,920 similar distribution, you take that last 5428 03:23:57,920 --> 03:23:59,840 38% that shows up the hour before the 5429 03:23:59,840 --> 03:24:01,920 event, the traffic on university would 5430 03:24:01,920 --> 03:24:04,720 be about 1,400 vehicles and that delay 5431 03:24:04,720 --> 03:24:06,560 would be an additional about 8 to 10 5432 03:24:06,560 --> 03:24:08,800 minutes of delay on that site. And we're 5433 03:24:08,800 --> 03:24:10,640 still refining the specifics of those 5434 03:24:10,640 --> 03:24:12,880 numbers, but those that's the data. So, 5435 03:24:12,880 --> 03:24:14,399 as you arrive to the site, we're talking 5436 03:24:14,399 --> 03:24:15,920 about an additional 8 to 10 minute 5437 03:24:15,920 --> 03:24:18,080 delay. And then when we're leaving the 5438 03:24:18,080 --> 03:24:21,840 site, it's um it's similar about 18 uh 5439 03:24:21,840 --> 03:24:24,160 sorry, about about uh 8 to 10 minute 5440 03:24:24,160 --> 03:24:26,239 delay as you leave the site. So, where 5441 03:24:26,239 --> 03:24:28,319 that kicks in or where that picks up is 5442 03:24:28,319 --> 03:24:30,720 if you're coming down um from Heber and 5443 03:24:30,720 --> 03:24:33,680 you're on 189 coming into Provo, um as 5444 03:24:33,680 --> 03:24:35,760 soon as you get on Vesper, that that 5445 03:24:35,760 --> 03:24:37,520 traffic would slow down significantly. 5446 03:24:37,520 --> 03:24:39,040 And so, that's that that slow in 5447 03:24:39,040 --> 03:24:41,600 traffic. We're averaging 5 to 10 miles 5448 03:24:41,600 --> 03:24:43,359 per hour and that would equate to about 5449 03:24:43,359 --> 03:24:44,800 a 10-minute delay to get down to the 5450 03:24:44,800 --> 03:24:46,000 mouth of the canyon because then once 5451 03:24:46,000 --> 03:24:47,520 you're at the mouth of the canyon as you 5452 03:24:47,520 --> 03:24:49,520 take a right that traffic widens up to 5453 03:24:49,520 --> 03:24:51,520 three lanes um or on university it 5454 03:24:51,520 --> 03:24:53,600 widens up to two to three lanes uh very 5455 03:24:53,600 --> 03:24:55,439 quickly. So that's those are the delays 5456 03:24:55,439 --> 03:24:57,040 that we're talking about in terms of the 5457 03:24:57,040 --> 03:24:59,680 overall traffic impacts um um for 5458 03:24:59,680 --> 03:25:00,479 Vesper. 5459 03:25:00,479 --> 03:25:02,000 >> Has seen your numbers? 5460 03:25:02,000 --> 03:25:02,560 >> What's that? 5461 03:25:02,560 --> 03:25:04,640 >> Has Vern and UD do seen your numbers? 5462 03:25:04,640 --> 03:25:07,040 >> Um yeah. Well, I think we're in the 5463 03:25:07,040 --> 03:25:08,319 process of reviewing those numbers with 5464 03:25:08,319 --> 03:25:09,840 Vern right now, but I'll I'll let Vern 5465 03:25:09,840 --> 03:25:13,200 speak for himself. 5466 03:25:13,200 --> 03:25:15,920 >> Question about this picture first. 5467 03:25:15,920 --> 03:25:18,080 >> Do you want a picture? 5468 03:25:18,080 --> 03:25:20,640 >> Like it says 43% arrived two to three 5469 03:25:20,640 --> 03:25:22,479 hours prior to the event. Where are you 5470 03:25:22,479 --> 03:25:24,000 getting%? 5471 03:25:24,000 --> 03:25:27,680 >> That that 43% Krice is just you add six 5472 03:25:27,680 --> 03:25:30,800 plus 12 plus 25. So when you add all 5473 03:25:30,800 --> 03:25:32,560 three of those numbers together, that's 5474 03:25:32,560 --> 03:25:35,279 the 43%. And then that last hour before 5475 03:25:35,279 --> 03:25:38,479 the event, you're talking about 30% 38% 5476 03:25:38,479 --> 03:25:40,800 shows up at that at that last event. And 5477 03:25:40,800 --> 03:25:44,880 maybe um if I'm if I'm sorry, Katrice, 5478 03:25:44,880 --> 03:25:46,319 does that answer your question? 5479 03:25:46,319 --> 03:25:48,399 >> Well, it should say arrive one to three 5480 03:25:48,399 --> 03:25:50,000 hours prior to the event, not two to 5481 03:25:50,000 --> 03:25:51,760 three hours prior to the event. 5482 03:25:51,760 --> 03:25:54,080 >> Yeah. Yeah, that's true. So, one to one 5483 03:25:54,080 --> 03:25:56,080 to three hours before the event is 43%. 5484 03:25:56,080 --> 03:25:57,920 That's a great that's a great catch. And 5485 03:25:57,920 --> 03:26:00,800 m maybe Vern, if I if I might, can I 5486 03:26:00,800 --> 03:26:03,120 just talk specifically about So, we've 5487 03:26:03,120 --> 03:26:04,800 kind of talked about 8th North and 5488 03:26:04,800 --> 03:26:06,800 Becky, it's a very valid question. We've 5489 03:26:06,800 --> 03:26:08,239 got to have Vern weigh in. He's he's got 5490 03:26:08,239 --> 03:26:09,600 to be okay with these numbers. So, we'd 5491 03:26:09,600 --> 03:26:11,279 love to get I'd love to get his opinion 5492 03:26:11,279 --> 03:26:13,279 and perspective on this. Maybe before we 5493 03:26:13,279 --> 03:26:14,720 do that, if we could just talk about 5494 03:26:14,720 --> 03:26:17,040 this slide right here. This is another 5495 03:26:17,040 --> 03:26:18,720 really important slide that I think goes 5496 03:26:18,720 --> 03:26:20,720 into the traffic question and really 5497 03:26:20,720 --> 03:26:23,040 addresses uh our attempt was to address 5498 03:26:23,040 --> 03:26:25,120 those concerns. So, if you're looking at 5499 03:26:25,120 --> 03:26:27,040 the site right now, one of the most 5500 03:26:27,040 --> 03:26:28,479 important things as as you're getting 5501 03:26:28,479 --> 03:26:30,000 traffic up to the site is getting them 5502 03:26:30,000 --> 03:26:33,279 safely off of 189. And so, this this has 5503 03:26:33,279 --> 03:26:35,040 been reviewed with UD do, it's not 5504 03:26:35,040 --> 03:26:36,800 approved because until we get our final 5505 03:26:36,800 --> 03:26:38,399 approvals in a year from now, it won't 5506 03:26:38,399 --> 03:26:40,560 be finalized. But, UD do has weighed in 5507 03:26:40,560 --> 03:26:42,640 on this and they've said um they they 5508 03:26:42,640 --> 03:26:44,239 like this uh they like our perspective 5509 03:26:44,239 --> 03:26:46,640 in the direction that we're headed. Um 5510 03:26:46,640 --> 03:26:48,640 so, the way that it works is you come in 5511 03:26:48,640 --> 03:26:51,600 off of 189. Wow, that's really cool. 5512 03:26:51,600 --> 03:26:53,120 Okay. All right. I don't know how to 5513 03:26:53,120 --> 03:26:54,560 undo that, but 5514 03:26:54,560 --> 03:26:55,520 >> Okay. All right. 5515 03:26:55,520 --> 03:26:56,880 >> You're free to use it as much as you 5516 03:26:56,880 --> 03:26:58,479 >> Okay, cool. I'll be careful not to touch 5517 03:26:58,479 --> 03:27:00,640 it. So, you've got two lanes of traffic 5518 03:27:00,640 --> 03:27:02,800 coming in. And this this length right 5519 03:27:02,800 --> 03:27:04,800 here is over 1,000 ft. It's the entire 5520 03:27:04,800 --> 03:27:09,760 frontage of Esper. And that would be pulling off of of 189 to 5521 03:27:09,760 --> 03:27:11,520 have all of that stacking capacity there 5522 03:27:11,520 --> 03:27:13,439 as you arrive to the site. And then we'd 5523 03:27:13,439 --> 03:27:15,600 come in, we would go to the roundabout. 5524 03:27:15,600 --> 03:27:17,120 and then 5525 03:27:17,120 --> 03:27:19,600 this this additional portion right here. 5526 03:27:19,600 --> 03:27:21,520 And if you want to just erase that, that 5527 03:27:21,520 --> 03:27:22,720 would be awesome. But all of that 5528 03:27:22,720 --> 03:27:24,479 portion right there, that would be an 5529 03:27:24,479 --> 03:27:25,920 addition that would widen to additional 5530 03:27:25,920 --> 03:27:28,720 four lanes. And so that allows traffic 5531 03:27:28,720 --> 03:27:30,800 to um from a couple of different 5532 03:27:30,800 --> 03:27:32,160 perspectives to come into the site 5533 03:27:32,160 --> 03:27:33,600 effectively and efficiently. So number 5534 03:27:33,600 --> 03:27:36,399 one is coming off 189 from Po and Oram. 5535 03:27:36,399 --> 03:27:37,920 It would also pick up this traffic as 5536 03:27:37,920 --> 03:27:39,680 you're coming in from Heber. This is the 5537 03:27:39,680 --> 03:27:42,720 off-ramp and you'd come across that that lane of traffic. You'd have two 5538 03:27:42,720 --> 03:27:44,080 lanes of traffic like we talked about 5539 03:27:44,080 --> 03:27:45,840 earlier. And then we would allow that 5540 03:27:45,840 --> 03:27:47,520 traffic to merge here. And then this 5541 03:27:47,520 --> 03:27:49,040 traffic would continue to merge here. 5542 03:27:49,040 --> 03:27:50,800 And that traffic would allow continue to 5543 03:27:50,800 --> 03:27:53,359 allow to to go up to here like like uh 5544 03:27:53,359 --> 03:27:55,600 commissioner or council member um Bogdan 5545 03:27:55,600 --> 03:27:56,960 was asking about. That would allow 5546 03:27:56,960 --> 03:27:58,319 traffic to come up here or parking 5547 03:27:58,319 --> 03:28:00,000 excuse me parking to come up here and 5548 03:28:00,000 --> 03:28:01,520 then parking to come this way and load 5549 03:28:01,520 --> 03:28:04,160 all of these uh surface sites as well. 5550 03:28:04,160 --> 03:28:06,239 This is a really important design. This 5551 03:28:06,239 --> 03:28:08,000 is not a small thing on the parking 5552 03:28:08,000 --> 03:28:09,840 structure. So we've talked about the 5553 03:28:09,840 --> 03:28:11,279 surface parking and then the parking 5554 03:28:11,279 --> 03:28:13,120 structure loading into the parking 5555 03:28:13,120 --> 03:28:15,120 structure. It's a speed ramp. It's 5556 03:28:15,120 --> 03:28:16,720 called a speed ramp. It is like the 5557 03:28:16,720 --> 03:28:20,239 opposite of what Salt Lake City airport 5558 03:28:20,239 --> 03:28:22,960 has. That is the most inefficient design 5559 03:28:22,960 --> 03:28:25,040 ever. And so this speed ramp, you're 5560 03:28:25,040 --> 03:28:26,960 able to come up the side of the parking 5561 03:28:26,960 --> 03:28:28,800 structure and you're able to load into 5562 03:28:28,800 --> 03:28:30,560 each level and it's very, very 5563 03:28:30,560 --> 03:28:31,760 efficient. So you're pulling that 5564 03:28:31,760 --> 03:28:34,239 traffic off of the oncoming stream and 5565 03:28:34,239 --> 03:28:35,520 you're able to get people in and get 5566 03:28:35,520 --> 03:28:37,920 them parked safely and efficiently. So 5567 03:28:37,920 --> 03:28:39,600 that's an important component as we talk 5568 03:28:39,600 --> 03:28:41,680 about parking, getting people off of UD 5569 03:28:41,680 --> 03:28:43,920 do. Um we've obviously we've sorry 5570 03:28:43,920 --> 03:28:46,399 getting people off 189 and U dot roads. 5571 03:28:46,399 --> 03:28:47,760 Um we've talked about getting rid of 5572 03:28:47,760 --> 03:28:49,279 these left turns which again are very 5573 03:28:49,279 --> 03:28:51,680 important to U do um that's that's an 5574 03:28:51,680 --> 03:28:54,000 important consideration that's arriving 5575 03:28:54,000 --> 03:28:56,239 to the site and then departing from the 5576 03:28:56,239 --> 03:28:58,160 site. It's the same thing. So this is a 5577 03:28:58,160 --> 03:29:00,319 very efficient unloading. All of this 5578 03:29:00,319 --> 03:29:03,359 comes to this uh location right here. So 5579 03:29:03,359 --> 03:29:04,880 all of that traffic is going to be 5580 03:29:04,880 --> 03:29:07,760 loading on to 189 in two lanes and that 5581 03:29:07,760 --> 03:29:10,640 becomes the effective governor. Um we uh 5582 03:29:10,640 --> 03:29:12,319 the governor for for getting traffic 5583 03:29:12,319 --> 03:29:14,479 back onto 189. So you can't just slam 5584 03:29:14,479 --> 03:29:16,720 the roads because you can only offload 5585 03:29:16,720 --> 03:29:18,880 at two people per two, you know, two pe 5586 03:29:18,880 --> 03:29:20,720 two people at a time, those two lanes. 5587 03:29:20,720 --> 03:29:21,120 >> Um 5588 03:29:21,120 --> 03:29:23,040 >> Brian, you calculated how many cars can 5589 03:29:23,040 --> 03:29:25,120 be stacked in 1,000 feet, for example. 5590 03:29:25,120 --> 03:29:27,040 >> We did. We did. So all of this, Gary, if 5591 03:29:27,040 --> 03:29:28,560 you look at all the stacking as you add 5592 03:29:28,560 --> 03:29:30,720 up all of this, and again, every bit of 5593 03:29:30,720 --> 03:29:32,319 stacking that we're giving up is giving 5594 03:29:32,319 --> 03:29:34,319 up parking. So, we've that's a big 5595 03:29:34,319 --> 03:29:35,920 concession that we've tried to figure 5596 03:29:35,920 --> 03:29:37,359 out how to balance that because we 5597 03:29:37,359 --> 03:29:38,560 wanted to make sure we can get people 5598 03:29:38,560 --> 03:29:41,120 off of 189 safely. And that number down 5599 03:29:41,120 --> 03:29:43,200 here is 1,00 vehicles. So, as you look 5600 03:29:43,200 --> 03:29:45,520 at the 10,000 vehicles, that allows for 5601 03:29:45,520 --> 03:29:47,920 all this stacking to take place. So 5602 03:29:47,920 --> 03:29:49,920 again, if we're talking about 4,500 5603 03:29:49,920 --> 03:29:52,560 vehicles to 5,500 vehicles of total 5604 03:29:52,560 --> 03:29:55,680 parking on site, that's a 20% amount, 5605 03:29:55,680 --> 03:29:57,520 you know, to 20% of that can be stacked 5606 03:29:57,520 --> 03:30:00,560 on the site, which again is we feel like 5607 03:30:00,560 --> 03:30:02,640 we're very confident. Our Horox 5608 03:30:02,640 --> 03:30:04,399 engineering, our traffic engineer, and 5609 03:30:04,399 --> 03:30:06,160 UD do is feeling good that this this 5610 03:30:06,160 --> 03:30:08,239 does really uh allow traffic to get off 5611 03:30:08,239 --> 03:30:10,319 safely off of 189 and make sure they 5612 03:30:10,319 --> 03:30:11,680 continue to do that. 5613 03:30:11,680 --> 03:30:14,239 >> Heard that at peak hours that that 5614 03:30:14,239 --> 03:30:20,000 traffic backs up the canyon to these parks because there's already a 5615 03:30:20,000 --> 03:30:22,640 congestion problem. How does that work 5616 03:30:22,640 --> 03:30:24,479 with adding all these trying to get back 5617 03:30:24,479 --> 03:30:26,319 on when it's backed up? 5618 03:30:26,319 --> 03:30:28,560 >> So, I I think if I'm understanding your 5619 03:30:28,560 --> 03:30:30,800 question, um, Commission, Council Member 5620 03:30:30,800 --> 03:30:32,960 Bogdan, it's it's just this this portion 5621 03:30:32,960 --> 03:30:36,960 of the of of I or 189 gets backed up. 5622 03:30:36,960 --> 03:30:39,439 >> So, we'll obviously be offloading at, 5623 03:30:39,439 --> 03:30:42,399 you know, 10:30, 11, 11:30 at night. So, 5624 03:30:42,399 --> 03:30:44,399 the the traffic volumes go significantly 5625 03:30:44,399 --> 03:30:45,920 down. we won't be unloading it at the 5626 03:30:45,920 --> 03:30:49,200 pem peak. So that that resolves a a big 5627 03:30:49,200 --> 03:30:54,239 portion of the concern. But um Becky 5628 03:30:54,239 --> 03:30:56,239 ultimately I guess let's just jump to 5629 03:30:56,239 --> 03:31:02,479 this because this is kind of maybe the the icing on the cake or kind of the final talking point and that is what 5630 03:31:02,479 --> 03:31:04,880 are the improvements that are necessary 5631 03:31:04,880 --> 03:31:09,279 in this area and um well I'll just talk 5632 03:31:09,279 --> 03:31:11,840 about them because I'm not seeing my 5633 03:31:11,840 --> 03:31:14,319 slide right here. Dang it. Oh, it's 5634 03:31:14,319 --> 03:31:16,080 right here. 5635 03:31:16,080 --> 03:31:19,680 Okay. So, [snorts] Becky, um, this is 5636 03:31:19,680 --> 03:31:21,680 the improvements that need to be made. 5637 03:31:21,680 --> 03:31:23,680 You do DOT 5638 03:31:23,680 --> 03:31:25,760 will recognize that right now this 5639 03:31:25,760 --> 03:31:27,279 intersection and certain movements of 5640 03:31:27,279 --> 03:31:29,359 this intersection are problematic. So, 5641 03:31:29,359 --> 03:31:30,720 the the movement that you've talked 5642 03:31:30,720 --> 03:31:32,319 about, Becky, is this right-hand turn on 5643 03:31:32,319 --> 03:31:35,200 the 189 or on the 8th North is the most 5644 03:31:35,200 --> 03:31:36,880 problematic movement of the inter 5645 03:31:36,880 --> 03:31:39,200 intersection. and they would uh they 5646 03:31:39,200 --> 03:31:42,000 would admit that that's a problem today 5647 03:31:42,000 --> 03:31:43,760 um at PM Peak and it's only going to 5648 03:31:43,760 --> 03:31:45,439 become a worse problem as Heber 5649 03:31:45,439 --> 03:31:46,640 continues to grow and do what they're 5650 03:31:46,640 --> 03:31:48,160 doing and that you know the commuter 5651 03:31:48,160 --> 03:31:49,920 continues to increase and so 5652 03:31:49,920 --> 03:31:51,760 improvements need to be made there and 5653 03:31:51,760 --> 03:31:53,040 one of the suggest one of the 5654 03:31:53,040 --> 03:31:54,560 suggestions that we're making to UD do 5655 03:31:54,560 --> 03:31:56,080 as part of the overall improvements that 5656 03:31:56,080 --> 03:31:58,160 need to be made is that this become this 5657 03:31:58,160 --> 03:32:00,720 right uh this yellow lane become a 5658 03:32:00,720 --> 03:32:02,960 continuous flow which would really allow 5659 03:32:02,960 --> 03:32:04,960 that whole that whole system to flush 5660 03:32:04,960 --> 03:32:07,120 out and the traffic can get get where it 5661 03:32:07,120 --> 03:32:09,920 needs to go. So, that's right now the 5662 03:32:09,920 --> 03:32:11,600 solution that we're proposing to UD do 5663 03:32:11,600 --> 03:32:14,000 in hopes that that will again it will 5664 03:32:14,000 --> 03:32:16,399 take care of the problem. Um, it's just 5665 03:32:16,399 --> 03:32:18,239 working those details out with UD do to 5666 03:32:18,239 --> 03:32:19,760 make sure we can get that worked out. 5667 03:32:19,760 --> 03:32:21,439 The bridge widening has to be done as 5668 03:32:21,439 --> 03:32:23,279 well and that road has to be widened all 5669 03:32:23,279 --> 03:32:24,880 the way up for those those that traffic 5670 03:32:24,880 --> 03:32:26,560 to continue to merge and and get going. 5671 03:32:26,560 --> 03:32:28,720 >> And UD do recognizes that and is willing 5672 03:32:28,720 --> 03:32:31,040 to I've had some say that that needs to 5673 03:32:31,040 --> 03:32:33,840 happen with or without Vesper, that 5674 03:32:33,840 --> 03:32:34,880 dedicated lane. 5675 03:32:34,880 --> 03:32:42,640 >> Yeah, it needs to happen right now. that that movement is not is not it's not in failure level of service but 5676 03:32:42,640 --> 03:32:45,200 it's it's you know in PMP it it's a 5677 03:32:45,200 --> 03:32:48,560 problem. So um there's one more thing 5678 03:32:48,560 --> 03:32:50,800 before I before I let two more minutes 5679 03:32:50,800 --> 03:32:53,600 on this on this issue right here. Um 5680 03:32:53,600 --> 03:32:55,200 there's a lot of things that we're 5681 03:32:55,200 --> 03:32:56,880 implementing in terms of traffic 5682 03:32:56,880 --> 03:33:00,399 measures that for our maximum capacity 5683 03:33:00,399 --> 03:33:02,479 events we I wanted to mention really 5684 03:33:02,479 --> 03:33:04,960 quickly before we before I I let Vern 5685 03:33:04,960 --> 03:33:07,040 chime in and and share his perspective 5686 03:33:07,040 --> 03:33:11,040 on these numbers. So um the maximum 5687 03:33:11,040 --> 03:33:12,960 capacity events are critically important 5688 03:33:12,960 --> 03:33:14,880 that we manage parking and traffic 5689 03:33:14,880 --> 03:33:17,200 incredibly closely. And so as part of 5690 03:33:17,200 --> 03:33:18,880 that that's what this chart is that you 5691 03:33:18,880 --> 03:33:21,520 see over here. Um that's really really 5692 03:33:21,520 --> 03:33:23,359 important. So, we talk about on-site 5693 03:33:23,359 --> 03:33:25,200 parking, we talk about structured 5694 03:33:25,200 --> 03:33:27,760 parking, we talk about surface parking. 5695 03:33:27,760 --> 03:33:29,439 Now, we talk about off-site parking. We 5696 03:33:29,439 --> 03:33:30,720 haven't talked about off-site parking. 5697 03:33:30,720 --> 03:33:33,200 So, that to from our perspective, that 5698 03:33:33,200 --> 03:33:34,800 really does allow us still to get to 5699 03:33:34,800 --> 03:33:37,439 that, you know, six 7,000 stalls, an 5700 03:33:37,439 --> 03:33:39,359 appropriate number of stalls is that we 5701 03:33:39,359 --> 03:33:40,880 would have three or four locations 5702 03:33:40,880 --> 03:33:43,040 offsite and then we would have a shuttle 5703 03:33:43,040 --> 03:33:47,359 system that would allow um people our guests to come to Vesper in the 5704 03:33:47,359 --> 03:33:49,200 shuttle. And so that really it's it's a 5705 03:33:49,200 --> 03:33:50,560 very common practice for a lot of other 5706 03:33:50,560 --> 03:33:52,479 venues across the country. And so that 5707 03:33:52,479 --> 03:33:54,160 allows us the flexibility to not need 5708 03:33:54,160 --> 03:33:56,319 the traffic or the parking on site, but 5709 03:33:56,319 --> 03:33:58,319 to get go secure those spots and then 5710 03:33:58,319 --> 03:34:00,800 bring and then bring um bring our guests 5711 03:34:00,800 --> 03:34:04,880 to uh to to Vesper. Um that includes the 5712 03:34:04,880 --> 03:34:07,279 shuttle service. So um that shuttle 5713 03:34:07,279 --> 03:34:08,479 service, we're also talking about 5714 03:34:08,479 --> 03:34:09,920 implementing that shuttle service down 5715 03:34:09,920 --> 03:34:12,239 to one of the Front Runner stops. Um, 5716 03:34:12,239 --> 03:34:14,000 we're hoping that we could uh make that 5717 03:34:14,000 --> 03:34:15,920 work on at the Vineyard Station, the the 5718 03:34:15,920 --> 03:34:17,920 station in Orum or even the the one in 5719 03:34:17,920 --> 03:34:20,399 Provo. Likely the one uh at Vineyard 5720 03:34:20,399 --> 03:34:21,680 Station would be probably the most 5721 03:34:21,680 --> 03:34:23,760 convenient for people to get to. Um, but 5722 03:34:23,760 --> 03:34:25,439 that's one of the other um one of the 5723 03:34:25,439 --> 03:34:27,040 other uh shuttle services that we're 5724 03:34:27,040 --> 03:34:30,640 talking about um is is is that um 5725 03:34:30,640 --> 03:34:32,640 carpooling will be a requirement. Um if 5726 03:34:32,640 --> 03:34:34,080 any of you have gone up to the mountains 5727 03:34:34,080 --> 03:34:36,239 skiing, um it's a requirement. If you 5728 03:34:36,239 --> 03:34:37,760 don't have four people in your vehicle, 5729 03:34:37,760 --> 03:34:39,840 you're paying a lot more per per vehicle 5730 03:34:39,840 --> 03:34:41,600 to park there. And so those are all 5731 03:34:41,600 --> 03:34:43,120 incentives that we would be giving for 5732 03:34:43,120 --> 03:34:45,200 people to carpool. We do not want one 5733 03:34:45,200 --> 03:34:46,960 person showing up to the site. And if 5734 03:34:46,960 --> 03:34:48,080 that's going to be your approach, you're 5735 03:34:48,080 --> 03:34:49,600 going to pay heavily in terms of parking 5736 03:34:49,600 --> 03:34:52,560 for that to happen. Um ride share. We've 5737 03:34:52,560 --> 03:34:54,239 got to accommodate all the ride share. 5738 03:34:54,239 --> 03:34:55,680 We've talked about having an off-site 5739 03:34:55,680 --> 03:34:57,520 ride share where they would be dropped 5740 03:34:57,520 --> 03:34:59,439 off at one of our one of our lot one of 5741 03:34:59,439 --> 03:35:01,680 our lots so that we would avoid that 5742 03:35:01,680 --> 03:35:04,319 traffic. Sorry, coming up um 189 and 5743 03:35:04,319 --> 03:35:06,160 getting to the site. Um there's still a 5744 03:35:06,160 --> 03:35:07,359 lot that needs to be done with ride 5745 03:35:07,359 --> 03:35:08,960 share, but right now we can accommodate 5746 03:35:08,960 --> 03:35:10,479 the ride share and the shuttle service 5747 03:35:10,479 --> 03:35:13,120 um as we've got it planned right now. Um 5748 03:35:13,120 --> 03:35:14,800 FrontrRunner regional transit, we talked 5749 03:35:14,800 --> 03:35:16,640 about that. Uh the pedestrian and 5750 03:35:16,640 --> 03:35:18,399 bicycle access is not something that 5751 03:35:18,399 --> 03:35:20,720 we're saying is a massive part of the 5752 03:35:20,720 --> 03:35:22,239 project, although we will have a 5753 03:35:22,239 --> 03:35:24,720 significant amount of bike parking um on 5754 03:35:24,720 --> 03:35:27,359 site because uh I 5755 03:35:27,359 --> 03:35:29,439 >> mean significant amount. What does that 5756 03:35:29,439 --> 03:35:31,920 translate to in numbers? Um, whatever 5757 03:35:31,920 --> 03:35:33,600 people are willing to drive here on a 5758 03:35:33,600 --> 03:35:35,520 bike, we are ecstatic about it and we 5759 03:35:35,520 --> 03:35:36,880 will provide a place for them to park so 5760 03:35:36,880 --> 03:35:38,640 that they get their car off the road. 5761 03:35:38,640 --> 03:35:40,319 So, that's a huge win for us. I think 5762 03:35:40,319 --> 03:35:42,239 it's a win for everybody. All of us from 5763 03:35:42,239 --> 03:35:44,160 a traffic perspective. So, we will 5764 03:35:44,160 --> 03:35:45,840 provide parking, secure parking or 5765 03:35:45,840 --> 03:35:47,200 people won't feel safe leaving their 5766 03:35:47,200 --> 03:35:48,479 bike and it won't work. 5767 03:35:48,479 --> 03:35:51,040 >> That mean there'll be like a bike path 5768 03:35:51,040 --> 03:35:52,399 on the bridge. 5769 03:35:52,399 --> 03:35:53,520 >> 100%. Yeah, Jeff. 5770 03:35:53,520 --> 03:35:54,479 >> On the overpass? 5771 03:35:54,479 --> 03:35:56,319 >> Yes. So, as you come up Pro River, the 5772 03:35:56,319 --> 03:35:57,920 Pro River crossing, there would 5773 03:35:57,920 --> 03:35:59,359 absolutely be that pedestrian and bike 5774 03:35:59,359 --> 03:36:00,640 path. That would be a combined 5775 03:36:00,640 --> 03:36:02,479 pedestrian bike and we can see that 5776 03:36:02,479 --> 03:36:04,000 being used extensively to get people 5777 03:36:04,000 --> 03:36:04,720 there. 5778 03:36:04,720 --> 03:36:06,160 >> Separated from the vehicles. 5779 03:36:06,160 --> 03:36:07,760 Yeah. 5780 03:36:07,760 --> 03:36:09,680 >> And you have bike lockers. Is that what 5781 03:36:09,680 --> 03:36:10,080 I'm hearing? 5782 03:36:10,080 --> 03:36:11,359 >> We will have we will have places for 5783 03:36:11,359 --> 03:36:14,399 people to secure their bikes. Correct. 5784 03:36:14,399 --> 03:36:16,960 >> As somebody who rode her bike to like 5785 03:36:16,960 --> 03:36:18,800 BYU football games just to avoid the 5786 03:36:18,800 --> 03:36:21,840 traffic. I would 100% ride my bike to a 5787 03:36:21,840 --> 03:36:24,560 concert here. 5788 03:36:24,560 --> 03:36:25,760 We think that you might be the 5789 03:36:25,760 --> 03:36:28,880 exception, Rachel, but there's enough 5790 03:36:28,880 --> 03:36:30,720 people that we have to make sure because 5791 03:36:30,720 --> 03:36:33,040 again, it's a benefit to Vesper to get 5792 03:36:33,040 --> 03:36:35,120 people riding their bikes up here. I I 5793 03:36:35,120 --> 03:36:37,040 see that being hard at 11 at night where 5794 03:36:37,040 --> 03:36:39,439 it's dark, but I think people will do 5795 03:36:39,439 --> 03:36:40,800 it. I think people will do it. You got 5796 03:36:40,800 --> 03:36:43,120 the Murdoch Canal um that comes through 5797 03:36:43,120 --> 03:36:45,520 here. That's a great way for, you know, 5798 03:36:45,520 --> 03:36:47,840 everyone south and north to come up here 5799 03:36:47,840 --> 03:36:50,080 um get on Pearl River Trail, ride up the 5800 03:36:50,080 --> 03:36:52,560 canyon, and get safely across. It's we 5801 03:36:52,560 --> 03:36:54,720 feel like it'll be a fantastic amenity. 5802 03:36:54,720 --> 03:36:56,239 Something that will be used for venues 5803 03:36:56,239 --> 03:36:58,000 for for for the the actual events that 5804 03:36:58,000 --> 03:37:00,239 we're having as well as off, you know, 5805 03:37:00,239 --> 03:37:02,160 offvent hours. We want people to come up 5806 03:37:02,160 --> 03:37:03,200 and and ride the bikes. 5807 03:37:03,200 --> 03:37:04,560 >> Rachel, how would you like to secure 5808 03:37:04,560 --> 03:37:07,279 your bike when you were there? 5809 03:37:07,279 --> 03:37:08,960 >> Um, 5810 03:37:08,960 --> 03:37:13,359 a really good bike lock area. So, 5811 03:37:13,359 --> 03:37:15,279 BikeWalk Provo is great about helping 5812 03:37:15,279 --> 03:37:17,600 people install 5813 03:37:17,600 --> 03:37:19,439 secure things that they can lock their 5814 03:37:19,439 --> 03:37:22,640 bikes to. Um, covered parking is nice. 5815 03:37:22,640 --> 03:37:26,399 Bike lockers take up a ton of space. Um, 5816 03:37:26,399 --> 03:37:27,600 I don't know that that would be 5817 03:37:27,600 --> 03:37:29,279 necessary for this because I'm not 5818 03:37:29,279 --> 03:37:31,359 leaving the bike and going for, you 5819 03:37:31,359 --> 03:37:33,040 know, like a two week trip or something. 5820 03:37:33,040 --> 03:37:34,960 It would just be for the time of the 5821 03:37:34,960 --> 03:37:36,560 event. 5822 03:37:36,560 --> 03:37:39,760 And I would just see it just like I feel 5823 03:37:39,760 --> 03:37:42,399 safe leaving my car locked in a parking 5824 03:37:42,399 --> 03:37:46,399 lot. It would be similar to that. 5825 03:37:46,399 --> 03:37:48,720 So now Brian, bring this transportation 5826 03:37:48,720 --> 03:37:50,640 down to actual parking, which was Jeff's 5827 03:37:50,640 --> 03:37:52,720 original question. Let's get to the 5828 03:37:52,720 --> 03:37:54,000 parking itself. 5829 03:37:54,000 --> 03:37:58,000 >> Right. Right now, um Gary, if if UD do 5830 03:37:58,000 --> 03:38:00,399 came to us and said your maximum park, 5831 03:38:00,399 --> 03:38:03,040 your maximum number of vehicles that can 5832 03:38:03,040 --> 03:38:05,439 come over that fly over at 8th North 5833 03:38:05,439 --> 03:38:07,439 is,00 vehicles, that's what we think the 5834 03:38:07,439 --> 03:38:09,600 capacity is of that road right now. We 5835 03:38:09,600 --> 03:38:11,439 would make we would adjust our parking 5836 03:38:11,439 --> 03:38:15,120 numbers on site to make that work. So, 5837 03:38:15,120 --> 03:38:17,279 that's where we're at is that we can be 5838 03:38:17,279 --> 03:38:18,880 flexible. We think this is going to land 5839 03:38:18,880 --> 03:38:21,680 somewhere between 4,000 and probably 5840 03:38:21,680 --> 03:38:23,200 5,500. 5841 03:38:23,200 --> 03:38:24,640 That's kind of the parking range that 5842 03:38:24,640 --> 03:38:26,640 we're talking about right now. We would 5843 03:38:26,640 --> 03:38:28,960 like to stick we would like to stick 5844 03:38:28,960 --> 03:38:30,399 with what the city ordinance says right 5845 03:38:30,399 --> 03:38:33,359 now, which would put us at 5100. Um, but 5846 03:38:33,359 --> 03:38:35,279 that's the parking range that we want to 5847 03:38:35,279 --> 03:38:37,760 be in because any additional stall above 5848 03:38:37,760 --> 03:38:40,239 that is a is a massive added cost to 5849 03:38:40,239 --> 03:38:42,479 Vesper that we don't want to have to 5850 03:38:42,479 --> 03:38:44,239 incur. So, we want to park it 5851 03:38:44,239 --> 03:38:46,239 adequately. We do not want to overpark 5852 03:38:46,239 --> 03:38:48,960 it. And so, yeah, 10,000 was the cap at 5853 03:38:48,960 --> 03:38:52,080 one point. It's now 8,000. And so, yeah, 5854 03:38:52,080 --> 03:38:53,600 I think that's something that we're that 5855 03:38:53,600 --> 03:38:55,120 we're we're wanting to push actively 5856 03:38:55,120 --> 03:38:56,960 push down as aggressively as we can. 5857 03:38:56,960 --> 03:38:57,439 Jeff, 5858 03:38:57,439 --> 03:39:00,640 >> if you take if you take 5,000, let's 5859 03:39:00,640 --> 03:39:03,600 call it what what would be the above 5860 03:39:03,600 --> 03:39:05,200 ground and so above ground parking is 5861 03:39:05,200 --> 03:39:06,560 here and it's up on this hill too. 5862 03:39:06,560 --> 03:39:06,800 Correct. 5863 03:39:06,800 --> 03:39:08,080 >> Correct. Yeah. 5864 03:39:08,080 --> 03:39:08,720 >> SL. 5865 03:39:08,720 --> 03:39:10,800 >> So, this this is that analysis, Jeff. 5866 03:39:10,800 --> 03:39:12,720 So, come full circle. Maybe we'll just 5867 03:39:12,720 --> 03:39:14,640 finish this up before we turn the floor 5868 03:39:14,640 --> 03:39:17,520 over to burn. This this right here is 5869 03:39:17,520 --> 03:39:19,760 the 14 acre total number. But this is 5870 03:39:19,760 --> 03:39:22,319 the this is the single the single stalls 5871 03:39:22,319 --> 03:39:23,840 are right here. Or just clear. 5872 03:39:23,840 --> 03:39:25,359 >> I got you. 5873 03:39:25,359 --> 03:39:27,439 >> So the total the total parking that you 5874 03:39:27,439 --> 03:39:30,560 see there in orange Jeff totals 12,61 5875 03:39:30,560 --> 03:39:34,800 stalls. Um, we feel like if if well, 5876 03:39:34,800 --> 03:39:36,960 let's just leave it at that. 1261 and 5877 03:39:36,960 --> 03:39:38,239 then we've got the parking structure 5878 03:39:38,239 --> 03:39:39,680 that depending on how many stories we 5879 03:39:39,680 --> 03:39:41,439 make that parking structure, that 5880 03:39:41,439 --> 03:39:43,920 parking stall could go from 2500 stalls 5881 03:39:43,920 --> 03:39:47,200 to 3,800 stalls. That's the size of the 5882 03:39:47,200 --> 03:39:48,960 parking structure. Um, that would 5883 03:39:48,960 --> 03:39:50,479 adequately fit or that would 5884 03:39:50,479 --> 03:39:52,000 appropriately fit within this area and 5885 03:39:52,000 --> 03:39:53,279 we could still make the commitments that 5886 03:39:53,279 --> 03:39:56,399 we've made to Provo City. So, um, that's 5887 03:39:56,399 --> 03:39:58,239 those are the numbers. Um, and we're 5888 03:39:58,239 --> 03:40:01,760 hoping we're hoping if if I guess Jeff 5889 03:40:01,760 --> 03:40:03,520 my my sense would be we'd like to do 5890 03:40:03,520 --> 03:40:05,120 around 3,000 stalls in the parking 5891 03:40:05,120 --> 03:40:06,960 structure and then we'd like to do 5892 03:40:06,960 --> 03:40:09,359 another 1,200 stalls um for all of the 5893 03:40:09,359 --> 03:40:11,120 surface parking. So that would give us 5894 03:40:11,120 --> 03:40:13,840 about 3,200 stalls on site. 30 3,300 5895 03:40:13,840 --> 03:40:15,439 stalls and then if there were a 5896 03:40:15,439 --> 03:40:17,600 situation or circumstance that we needed 5897 03:40:17,600 --> 03:40:19,680 to expand the the the parking 5898 03:40:19,680 --> 03:40:21,760 requirements, sorry, that would be 4200 5899 03:40:21,760 --> 03:40:22,080 stalls. 5900 03:40:22,080 --> 03:40:22,880 >> Yeah, 4200 5901 03:40:22,880 --> 03:40:24,560 >> I'm sorry. 4200 stalls. And then if 5902 03:40:24,560 --> 03:40:25,680 there would be a situation where we 5903 03:40:25,680 --> 03:40:27,200 needed to pick up an additional four or 5904 03:40:27,200 --> 03:40:29,600 500 stalls, then we would we would take 5905 03:40:29,600 --> 03:40:31,439 this parking lot and we would dig it 5906 03:40:31,439 --> 03:40:33,279 down 4 feet. We would use all of that 5907 03:40:33,279 --> 03:40:35,120 material to build the the kind of a 5908 03:40:35,120 --> 03:40:37,120 second story, but it would feel very, 5909 03:40:37,120 --> 03:40:38,880 you know, three or four feet above grade 5910 03:40:38,880 --> 03:40:40,319 because the rest would be below grade. 5911 03:40:40,319 --> 03:40:41,920 And we could turn all of this into a 5912 03:40:41,920 --> 03:40:44,239 second story, second story, and a second 5913 03:40:44,239 --> 03:40:46,000 story, which would then allow us to get 5914 03:40:46,000 --> 03:40:48,479 up to that 1950 stalls. So that would 5915 03:40:48,479 --> 03:40:50,560 put us at about five the 5,000 stall 5916 03:40:50,560 --> 03:40:52,160 number if if we had to get there. And 5917 03:40:52,160 --> 03:40:54,080 how many levels is the third? Like if 5918 03:40:54,080 --> 03:40:55,840 you do the 30,000 in this structure 5919 03:40:55,840 --> 03:40:57,439 parking, how many levels is that? 5920 03:40:57,439 --> 03:41:00,479 >> Right now, I think that number is five 5921 03:41:00,479 --> 03:41:02,800 to get to the 3,000. Five to six. 5922 03:41:02,800 --> 03:41:05,439 >> Okay, 5923 03:41:05,439 --> 03:41:07,279 >> Brian, just a quick question. 5924 03:41:07,279 --> 03:41:08,720 >> Yeah. 5925 03:41:08,720 --> 03:41:12,080 >> And let's say that the parking needs to 5926 03:41:12,080 --> 03:41:16,319 be more than five. that your assumptions 5927 03:41:16,319 --> 03:41:18,000 around 5928 03:41:18,000 --> 03:41:20,160 um you know ride sharing, all those 5929 03:41:20,160 --> 03:41:22,880 things just don't pan out the the way 5930 03:41:22,880 --> 03:41:24,000 that you hope. 5931 03:41:24,000 --> 03:41:24,399 >> Yeah. 5932 03:41:24,399 --> 03:41:27,520 >> Um where does the extra parking go? 5933 03:41:27,520 --> 03:41:28,880 >> The extra parking would go in the 5934 03:41:28,880 --> 03:41:32,080 off-site parking, Craig. Um so we would 5935 03:41:32,080 --> 03:41:34,720 identify right now we're actively trying 5936 03:41:34,720 --> 03:41:37,359 to secure 2,000 additional stalls into 5937 03:41:37,359 --> 03:41:38,800 in addition to everything we're doing 5938 03:41:38,800 --> 03:41:41,279 right here. Um and we feel like there's 5939 03:41:41,279 --> 03:41:44,800 adequate space. We we can't maybe share 5940 03:41:44,800 --> 03:41:46,640 the details of that with everybody as 5941 03:41:46,640 --> 03:41:47,760 much as we would like to just because 5942 03:41:47,760 --> 03:41:49,840 they're not finalized right now. Um but 5943 03:41:49,840 --> 03:41:51,200 our hope would be that before we come 5944 03:41:51,200 --> 03:41:53,120 back on the 25th and certainly, you 5945 03:41:53,120 --> 03:41:54,479 know, maybe a few weeks after that, we 5946 03:41:54,479 --> 03:41:56,560 hope to have those 2,000 stalls secured. 5947 03:41:56,560 --> 03:41:58,080 And so Craig, that's where we would pick 5948 03:41:58,080 --> 03:42:01,760 up those additional stalls if necessary. 5949 03:42:01,760 --> 03:42:04,800 >> Thank you. 5950 03:42:04,800 --> 03:42:06,800 >> Okay, with all of that, that's a lot to 5951 03:42:06,800 --> 03:42:08,800 digest. Thank you for letting me just 5952 03:42:08,800 --> 03:42:11,359 get it all off my chest. Um, I guess 5953 03:42:11,359 --> 03:42:12,800 maybe Vern, do you want would you like 5954 03:42:12,800 --> 03:42:13,760 to weigh in and then if there are any 5955 03:42:13,760 --> 03:42:14,800 other questions from the council 5956 03:42:14,800 --> 03:42:16,080 members? 5957 03:42:16,080 --> 03:42:19,910 >> That'd be great. 5958 03:42:19,920 --> 03:42:22,720 » Um, let me start off by saying that uh 5959 03:42:22,720 --> 03:42:24,880 we've had a lot of meetings with their 5960 03:42:24,880 --> 03:42:27,920 team and these virtual meetings have 5961 03:42:27,920 --> 03:42:30,720 been lengthy to say the least. Um, 5962 03:42:30,720 --> 03:42:34,000 they've been a long um discussions and 5963 03:42:34,000 --> 03:42:35,680 there have been some heartto-he heart 5964 03:42:35,680 --> 03:42:37,840 discussions to the point where I've 5965 03:42:37,840 --> 03:42:40,080 gotten animated a couple times. Okay, 5966 03:42:40,080 --> 03:42:43,040 just tightening up. Um, what I really 5967 03:42:43,040 --> 03:42:46,080 like is I like the circulation clip. 5968 03:42:46,080 --> 03:42:48,800 That's that's really well done. What I 5969 03:42:48,800 --> 03:42:50,720 also really like is the half interchange 5970 03:42:50,720 --> 03:42:52,720 that we're getting. We just had another 5971 03:42:52,720 --> 03:42:54,640 crash up there yesterday afternoon 5972 03:42:54,640 --> 03:42:58,160 coming downhill. Um, so I love that 5973 03:42:58,160 --> 03:43:01,200 we're going to see this whole five or 5974 03:43:01,200 --> 03:43:04,160 six accesses combined into one and 5975 03:43:04,160 --> 03:43:06,160 that's only going to promote more safety 5976 03:43:06,160 --> 03:43:08,239 along the corridor. very dangerous 5977 03:43:08,239 --> 03:43:10,479 corridor currently. 5978 03:43:10,479 --> 03:43:11,920 Those are the positives. Another 5979 03:43:11,920 --> 03:43:15,120 positive that I really like is the uh 5980 03:43:15,120 --> 03:43:18,080 parking occupancy index pricing that 5981 03:43:18,080 --> 03:43:19,600 they're going to do. I thought that was 5982 03:43:19,600 --> 03:43:21,600 very creative. Come in here, if you're 5983 03:43:21,600 --> 03:43:23,520 one or two, you're going to get charged 5984 03:43:23,520 --> 03:43:26,000 higher than your three and four or five. 5985 03:43:26,000 --> 03:43:28,880 I really thought that was creative. The 5986 03:43:28,880 --> 03:43:31,439 other thing that I like, positive stuff 5987 03:43:31,439 --> 03:43:34,319 that I like is it's not just one thing 5988 03:43:34,319 --> 03:43:36,160 of just flooding the whole thing with 5989 03:43:36,160 --> 03:43:38,720 parking. We got parking garage. We got 5990 03:43:38,720 --> 03:43:41,600 service parking. We got trails. People 5991 03:43:41,600 --> 03:43:43,279 can actually ride their bikes with 5992 03:43:43,279 --> 03:43:46,560 covered bike parking up there and feel 5993 03:43:46,560 --> 03:43:48,000 that they're going to come out of the 5994 03:43:48,000 --> 03:43:49,920 concert all happy and see their bike 5995 03:43:49,920 --> 03:43:53,520 there. Right. I also like the off street 5996 03:43:53,520 --> 03:43:56,560 or the offside shuttle. I've personally 5997 03:43:56,560 --> 03:43:58,000 been at concerts where I've taken a 5998 03:43:58,000 --> 03:44:00,640 shuttle to the concert. I've done a 5999 03:44:00,640 --> 03:44:02,399 patron of concert where I've gone by 6000 03:44:02,399 --> 03:44:04,880 myself and I've gone with a load of 6001 03:44:04,880 --> 03:44:08,239 eight people in the suburban right. 6002 03:44:08,239 --> 03:44:10,479 So there's a lot of positives. Now where 6003 03:44:10,479 --> 03:44:13,120 we've had disagreement and now we're in 6004 03:44:13,120 --> 03:44:17,600 agreement is the 90% 10% 6005 03:44:17,600 --> 03:44:20,399 um directional distribution directional 6006 03:44:20,399 --> 03:44:24,479 split and we started off with 6535. 6007 03:44:24,479 --> 03:44:27,600 We're now in agreement at the 9010. How 6008 03:44:27,600 --> 03:44:31,199 we came to that just so you're aware the 6009 03:44:31,199 --> 03:44:33,199 population of Salt Lake County, Utah 6010 03:44:33,199 --> 03:44:37,600 County, Summit County, and Wasach County 6011 03:44:37,600 --> 03:44:40,640 total that combined population summit 6012 03:44:40,640 --> 03:44:43,120 and was made up only 4% of the 6013 03:44:43,120 --> 03:44:45,120 population. 6014 03:44:45,120 --> 03:44:48,160 However, with that being said, there are 6015 03:44:48,160 --> 03:44:50,800 a lot of people up in Mil Creek Conway 6016 03:44:50,800 --> 03:44:53,120 area that have direct easy access to 6017 03:44:53,120 --> 03:44:56,080 I80, which is direct easy access to US 6018 03:44:56,080 --> 03:44:58,960 40, which is pretty direct access to US 6019 03:44:58,960 --> 03:45:02,080 189. So, we're very comfortable with the 6020 03:45:02,080 --> 03:45:04,640 9010 split or directional distribution 6021 03:45:04,640 --> 03:45:07,120 that they come up with. 6022 03:45:07,120 --> 03:45:10,319 um their team is working on some 6023 03:45:10,319 --> 03:45:11,920 simplification 6024 03:45:11,920 --> 03:45:15,199 of the planning associated with 6025 03:45:15,199 --> 03:45:17,920 University Avenue, how long it takes to 6026 03:45:17,920 --> 03:45:19,760 get to a certain point from University 6027 03:45:19,760 --> 03:45:24,239 Avenue to the venue or to the to the um 6028 03:45:24,239 --> 03:45:26,960 interchange at Mount Canyon. And then 6029 03:45:26,960 --> 03:45:30,319 also on State Route 52, which is 800 6030 03:45:30,319 --> 03:45:32,319 North, they [clears throat] are working 6031 03:45:32,319 --> 03:45:35,040 on that too. So what our recommendation 6032 03:45:35,040 --> 03:45:37,040 to them has been since we visited with 6033 03:45:37,040 --> 03:45:40,319 them is to put these in minutes and 6034 03:45:40,319 --> 03:45:42,720 seconds. People can relate to minutes 6035 03:45:42,720 --> 03:45:46,000 and seconds. We're always get confused. 6036 03:45:46,000 --> 03:45:47,920 Your perspective of congestion may be 6037 03:45:47,920 --> 03:45:49,600 very different from my perspective of 6038 03:45:49,600 --> 03:45:52,239 congestion. Right? When we talk level 6039 03:45:52,239 --> 03:45:54,720 service D or level service A or level 6040 03:45:54,720 --> 03:45:57,600 service failure, um that's different 6041 03:45:57,600 --> 03:45:59,600 from someone moving from California than 6042 03:45:59,600 --> 03:46:02,160 it is moving from Texas to here. Right? 6043 03:46:02,160 --> 03:46:03,600 So everybody has a little bit different 6044 03:46:03,600 --> 03:46:05,600 perspective but we all have one thing in 6045 03:46:05,600 --> 03:46:07,840 common and that is time in minutes and 6046 03:46:07,840 --> 03:46:11,199 seconds. So we expect that that will 6047 03:46:11,199 --> 03:46:13,760 eventually be shown in the way that will 6048 03:46:13,760 --> 03:46:16,880 be easily understandable not only to us 6049 03:46:16,880 --> 03:46:19,760 but also to the public. Uh, I think 6050 03:46:19,760 --> 03:46:22,640 that's the only thing I will say that uh 6051 03:46:22,640 --> 03:46:24,479 when we talk about occupancy per 6052 03:46:24,479 --> 03:46:26,960 vehicle, I was kind of at the three 6053 03:46:26,960 --> 03:46:30,080 person thing, but they've done industry 6054 03:46:30,080 --> 03:46:32,239 standard surveys and came up with the 6055 03:46:32,239 --> 03:46:34,640 3.5. So, I think there's some 6056 03:46:34,640 --> 03:46:37,359 reasonleness to it. At the end of the 6057 03:46:37,359 --> 03:46:40,720 day, I'm a guest reviewer basically, 6058 03:46:40,720 --> 03:46:45,199 right? uh UD do is the permitting agency 6059 03:46:45,199 --> 03:46:48,319 uh for this uh permit and access permit 6060 03:46:48,319 --> 03:46:50,479 and what needs to be done. 6061 03:46:50,479 --> 03:46:52,560 >> Any questions? 6062 03:46:52,560 --> 03:46:53,680 Contin, 6063 03:46:53,680 --> 03:46:56,479 >> can you explain 6064 03:46:56,479 --> 03:47:01,120 their what that means for them to to you 6065 03:47:01,120 --> 03:47:03,120 for you to pass off? What what's that 6066 03:47:03,120 --> 03:47:06,720 process like? What does that mean? 6067 03:47:06,720 --> 03:47:09,680 um 6068 03:47:09,680 --> 03:47:11,680 they will have to submit an application 6069 03:47:11,680 --> 03:47:14,080 because this is a private access and not 6070 03:47:14,080 --> 03:47:17,199 a public access. So any public roads 6071 03:47:17,199 --> 03:47:21,120 that we have that coming into um state 6072 03:47:21,120 --> 03:47:24,399 routes in Purple City, I have to be the 6073 03:47:24,399 --> 03:47:26,239 applicant for on behalf of Purple City 6074 03:47:26,239 --> 03:47:28,239 because they're public roads. Because 6075 03:47:28,239 --> 03:47:30,080 this is a private access, they have to 6076 03:47:30,080 --> 03:47:32,000 be the applicant. And UD do will go 6077 03:47:32,000 --> 03:47:35,199 through a pretty strict review of this 6078 03:47:35,199 --> 03:47:37,680 intense traffic study. And some of the 6079 03:47:37,680 --> 03:47:40,160 numbers that they'll get into are 6080 03:47:40,160 --> 03:47:41,840 numbers that people just want to see in 6081 03:47:41,840 --> 03:47:43,920 appendices. And some of the numbers 6082 03:47:43,920 --> 03:47:46,239 they'll they'll push back on and some of 6083 03:47:46,239 --> 03:47:47,920 the numbers they'll agree with just like 6084 03:47:47,920 --> 03:47:50,000 I have. But they're the permitted 6085 03:47:50,000 --> 03:47:52,800 agency, not us. 6086 03:47:52,800 --> 03:47:55,840 >> And where is that dedicated right-hand 6087 03:47:55,840 --> 03:47:59,040 turn lane from 6088 03:47:59,040 --> 03:48:03,120 US 189 to 8 North in on the process? Is 6089 03:48:03,120 --> 03:48:05,279 it going to be funded in five years? 6090 03:48:05,279 --> 03:48:06,560 Should they not even have funding for 6091 03:48:06,560 --> 03:48:09,199 it? Do they not care? 6092 03:48:09,199 --> 03:48:11,359 Well, it's a better person to answer 6093 03:48:11,359 --> 03:48:13,520 that, but I would say that it would need 6094 03:48:13,520 --> 03:48:16,080 to be opening day, 6095 03:48:16,080 --> 03:48:17,920 >> right? Is that what you're anticipating? 6096 03:48:17,920 --> 03:48:19,840 >> 100%. And I think Becky, your question 6097 03:48:19,840 --> 03:48:22,080 is where is you do stand in terms of the 6098 03:48:22,080 --> 03:48:23,520 funding for that? Is that 6099 03:48:23,520 --> 03:48:25,520 >> Yes. Yes. Because you know, normally 6100 03:48:25,520 --> 03:48:27,120 that would go what? Through MAG and you 6101 03:48:27,120 --> 03:48:30,880 guys would vote on that and or is that 6102 03:48:30,880 --> 03:48:34,479 UD do state funding to get that done? 6103 03:48:34,479 --> 03:48:36,560 And there's normally like a 6104 03:48:36,560 --> 03:48:39,279 >> Yeah, you don't UD will not put money 6105 03:48:39,279 --> 03:48:41,199 toward this. In fact, it's 6106 03:48:41,199 --> 03:48:43,600 >> at the at the interchange at the mouth 6107 03:48:43,600 --> 03:48:45,439 of the canyon. It's not even our 6108 03:48:45,439 --> 03:48:48,399 regional transportation plan. It will be 6109 03:48:48,399 --> 03:48:50,720 in this new update. I guarantee you 6110 03:48:50,720 --> 03:48:52,560 that. There's been a lot of comments 6111 03:48:52,560 --> 03:48:54,399 about that because we're starting to see 6112 03:48:54,399 --> 03:48:56,800 congestion at the interchange at certain 6113 03:48:56,800 --> 03:49:00,080 PM peak hours. So, UD do is not funding 6114 03:49:00,080 --> 03:49:02,720 this. The private sector will be funding 6115 03:49:02,720 --> 03:49:05,439 it. And what's nice about that is we get 6116 03:49:05,439 --> 03:49:08,479 a 247 improvement 6117 03:49:08,479 --> 03:49:12,560 to a roadway that is going to be used by 6118 03:49:12,560 --> 03:49:15,279 the private sector three or four times a 6119 03:49:15,279 --> 03:49:16,479 week. 6120 03:49:16,479 --> 03:49:18,560 >> So you guys are going to be responsible 6121 03:49:18,560 --> 03:49:20,239 to pay for that dedicated right-hand 6122 03:49:20,239 --> 03:49:21,120 turn. 6123 03:49:21,120 --> 03:49:23,439 >> So we will work with you do as through 6124 03:49:23,439 --> 03:49:25,279 like a public private partnership 6125 03:49:25,279 --> 03:49:28,720 relationship. Um, 6126 03:49:28,720 --> 03:49:31,680 we are we are like Vern talked about, we 6127 03:49:31,680 --> 03:49:33,359 are a small part of those that would use 6128 03:49:33,359 --> 03:49:35,439 it. It it benefits the region and so the 6129 03:49:35,439 --> 03:49:37,840 region UD do would have a have a role to 6130 03:49:37,840 --> 03:49:39,840 play in paying for that improvement. So 6131 03:49:39,840 --> 03:49:41,359 it would be a combined public private 6132 03:49:41,359 --> 03:49:43,359 partnership with us and with UD do they 6133 03:49:43,359 --> 03:49:44,640 don't have that on their map right now 6134 03:49:44,640 --> 03:49:47,920 to Vern's point of of funding. Um, but I 6135 03:49:47,920 --> 03:49:51,439 think with MAG, the 2027 is when they 6136 03:49:51,439 --> 03:49:53,600 adopt the new MAG plan and then that 6137 03:49:53,600 --> 03:49:55,760 those priorities are all situated and 6138 03:49:55,760 --> 03:49:58,239 you know Karen Karen McCandless, Mayor 6139 03:49:58,239 --> 03:49:59,840 Judkins, you know, all the mayors will 6140 03:49:59,840 --> 03:50:01,120 be on there and they'll vote for the 6141 03:50:01,120 --> 03:50:02,479 priorities of those things that then get 6142 03:50:02,479 --> 03:50:04,399 translated to UD do and then they put it 6143 03:50:04,399 --> 03:50:06,399 in their system. But yeah, it's it's got 6144 03:50:06,399 --> 03:50:08,000 to be it's got to be funded and it's got 6145 03:50:08,000 --> 03:50:09,680 to be part of part of the project. 6146 03:50:09,680 --> 03:50:12,160 >> So, where are you with their private 6147 03:50:12,160 --> 03:50:14,319 public partnership with have you 6148 03:50:14,319 --> 03:50:15,840 applied? Have you had a conversation 6149 03:50:15,840 --> 03:50:17,439 with them? And what's going on with 6150 03:50:17,439 --> 03:50:18,080 that? Where are you at? 6151 03:50:18,080 --> 03:50:19,760 >> That's a great question. We have to 6152 03:50:19,760 --> 03:50:22,800 submit the application. Um, we've Sorry. 6153 03:50:22,800 --> 03:50:24,560 We we've got to we've got to formalize 6154 03:50:24,560 --> 03:50:26,560 our application and finalize that to UD 6155 03:50:26,560 --> 03:50:28,640 do in order to have these conversations. 6156 03:50:28,640 --> 03:50:30,239 So, we've had the preapp, we've started 6157 03:50:30,239 --> 03:50:31,600 the process with UD do, we've had 6158 03:50:31,600 --> 03:50:34,000 multiple conversations with them. Um, 6159 03:50:34,000 --> 03:50:36,239 but that's the next step is we've got to 6160 03:50:36,239 --> 03:50:38,960 get the overall project approved. We've 6161 03:50:38,960 --> 03:50:41,680 got to get UD do to to to support the 6162 03:50:41,680 --> 03:50:43,760 analysis that we've done. And then at 6163 03:50:43,760 --> 03:50:45,680 that point, once that's all approved, 6164 03:50:45,680 --> 03:50:47,199 then we go in and have that conversation 6165 03:50:47,199 --> 03:50:49,520 in a much more in-depth way with them in 6166 03:50:49,520 --> 03:50:51,040 terms of the public private partnership. 6167 03:50:51,040 --> 03:50:52,640 But right now, UD do's looking at us 6168 03:50:52,640 --> 03:50:53,680 saying, "Well, you don't you don't have 6169 03:50:53,680 --> 03:50:55,520 a project. Until you get it approved 6170 03:50:55,520 --> 03:50:57,040 through Provo City, there's not much we 6171 03:50:57,040 --> 03:50:58,479 can do." So, we're having the 6172 03:50:58,479 --> 03:50:59,920 conversations on the traffic analysis 6173 03:50:59,920 --> 03:51:01,359 and those improvements that need to be 6174 03:51:01,359 --> 03:51:03,199 made, but right now, they wouldn't talk 6175 03:51:03,199 --> 03:51:04,720 about funding that until this is 6176 03:51:04,720 --> 03:51:06,239 approved and we've moved moved further 6177 03:51:06,239 --> 03:51:10,469 down the path. 6178 03:51:10,479 --> 03:51:14,960 » Okay. Thank you. um Vern. So in we have 6179 03:51:14,960 --> 03:51:19,439 35 minutes. Let's um and I know the team 6180 03:51:19,439 --> 03:51:21,279 started the meeting indicating they hope 6181 03:51:21,279 --> 03:51:24,080 to leave with a list of questions that 6182 03:51:24,080 --> 03:51:26,319 council member have council members have 6183 03:51:26,319 --> 03:51:27,600 that they could answer. 6184 03:51:27,600 --> 03:51:28,000 >> Yeah. 6185 03:51:28,000 --> 03:51:29,600 >> Um I know they're willing to do 6186 03:51:29,600 --> 03:51:31,840 additional meetings uh offline with 6187 03:51:31,840 --> 03:51:34,640 individual council members. Um, I'd like 6188 03:51:34,640 --> 03:51:36,800 to share part of my five minutes with 6189 03:51:36,800 --> 03:51:40,000 Brian Jones. Uh, and he wanted to make 6190 03:51:40,000 --> 03:51:42,560 some clarifying comments relative to 6191 03:51:42,560 --> 03:51:45,840 this body, what roles we play and 6192 03:51:45,840 --> 03:51:48,560 responsibilities we have. 6193 03:51:48,560 --> 03:51:51,359 >> Great. Thanks, Gary. Um, so I have some 6194 03:51:51,359 --> 03:51:54,319 comments I wanted to make and this is my 6195 03:51:54,319 --> 03:51:55,920 comments are mostly actually directed at 6196 03:51:55,920 --> 03:51:57,760 the public. The council already knows 6197 03:51:57,760 --> 03:51:59,439 this. I think the applicant already 6198 03:51:59,439 --> 03:52:01,760 knows this, but you as as you know, 6199 03:52:01,760 --> 03:52:02,880 you've been getting a lot of public 6200 03:52:02,880 --> 03:52:06,160 comment and um there are a few things I 6201 03:52:06,160 --> 03:52:08,319 think that a few items that I think 6202 03:52:08,319 --> 03:52:10,800 would help make that public comment more 6203 03:52:10,800 --> 03:52:13,439 impactful. So, none of this is this is 6204 03:52:13,439 --> 03:52:15,760 not intended to reduce public comment. I 6205 03:52:15,760 --> 03:52:17,199 know that the council loves public 6206 03:52:17,199 --> 03:52:19,199 engagement. This is essentially advice 6207 03:52:19,199 --> 03:52:20,479 on how to make your comments more 6208 03:52:20,479 --> 03:52:22,640 impactful by understanding the process 6209 03:52:22,640 --> 03:52:24,720 better. So, the first thing that I 6210 03:52:24,720 --> 03:52:25,920 wanted to say because of some of the 6211 03:52:25,920 --> 03:52:28,080 comments we've been getting is that 6212 03:52:28,080 --> 03:52:30,399 Provo operates under the council mayor 6213 03:52:30,399 --> 03:52:31,760 form of government, which is actually 6214 03:52:31,760 --> 03:52:33,439 pretty unusual in the state of Utah. 6215 03:52:33,439 --> 03:52:34,640 There's not that many cities that 6216 03:52:34,640 --> 03:52:36,800 operate under this form of government. 6217 03:52:36,800 --> 03:52:38,720 It has strict separation of powers 6218 03:52:38,720 --> 03:52:40,319 between the mayor and the and the 6219 03:52:40,319 --> 03:52:42,239 council like the federal and the state 6220 03:52:42,239 --> 03:52:45,600 system. So, it's actually illegal for 6221 03:52:45,600 --> 03:52:48,479 the council to direct executive branch 6222 03:52:48,479 --> 03:52:50,880 staff in the in the execution of their 6223 03:52:50,880 --> 03:52:52,800 duties. 6224 03:52:52,800 --> 03:52:55,439 However, the council is the final say on 6225 03:52:55,439 --> 03:52:57,040 land use matters. So, land use 6226 03:52:57,040 --> 03:53:00,000 applications go to the council. Uh, real 6227 03:53:00,000 --> 03:53:01,920 estate transactions are a little bit 6228 03:53:01,920 --> 03:53:04,640 weird because uh according to Supreme 6229 03:53:04,640 --> 03:53:06,640 Court case law, they are an executive 6230 03:53:06,640 --> 03:53:09,760 branch branch function, but they must be 6231 03:53:09,760 --> 03:53:12,399 approved by the council. So, neither the 6232 03:53:12,399 --> 03:53:15,680 council nor the executive branch can 6233 03:53:15,680 --> 03:53:18,720 sell, dedicate, dispose of, including 6234 03:53:18,720 --> 03:53:20,239 putting conservation easements on 6235 03:53:20,239 --> 03:53:22,560 property by themselves. Both branches 6236 03:53:22,560 --> 03:53:24,399 have to be involved in that. 6237 03:53:24,399 --> 03:53:26,239 >> Um, just clarify what you mean by land 6238 03:53:26,239 --> 03:53:28,080 use applications for the public. 6239 03:53:28,080 --> 03:53:29,520 >> Yes. So, I'm talking about reszone the 6240 03:53:29,520 --> 03:53:32,000 reszones and general plan uh map 6241 03:53:32,000 --> 03:53:33,680 amendments. Right. So, those kind of 6242 03:53:33,680 --> 03:53:35,680 applications are the are the council's 6243 03:53:35,680 --> 03:53:38,560 domain. Um, the other thing that I 6244 03:53:38,560 --> 03:53:40,800 wanted to address that I've heard is uh 6245 03:53:40,800 --> 03:53:44,080 every applicant is entitled to a 6246 03:53:44,080 --> 03:53:46,000 complete review of their application. So 6247 03:53:46,000 --> 03:53:47,120 sometimes one of the things that I've 6248 03:53:47,120 --> 03:53:48,960 started to hear more and more recently, 6249 03:53:48,960 --> 03:53:51,199 not just on this project, is comments 6250 03:53:51,199 --> 03:53:53,920 along the lines of, "Shame on you for 6251 03:53:53,920 --> 03:53:56,880 letting this get this far in the process 6252 03:53:56,880 --> 03:53:58,800 to directed at the council." Right? And 6253 03:53:58,800 --> 03:54:01,680 so one of the things I wanted to say is 6254 03:54:01,680 --> 03:54:03,840 in a system built on due process and 6255 03:54:03,840 --> 03:54:05,840 property rights, applicants have the 6256 03:54:05,840 --> 03:54:07,600 right to have their application fully 6257 03:54:07,600 --> 03:54:09,920 vetted and fully heard. it would be just 6258 03:54:09,920 --> 03:54:11,680 as inappropriate for the council to 6259 03:54:11,680 --> 03:54:13,520 terminate someone's application before 6260 03:54:13,520 --> 03:54:15,439 they've gone through the process as it 6261 03:54:15,439 --> 03:54:17,600 would for them to approve it before the 6262 03:54:17,600 --> 03:54:19,920 public got to comment on it. So that's 6263 03:54:19,920 --> 03:54:21,760 just part of the part of the process. 6264 03:54:21,760 --> 03:54:24,160 And the thing I would add on to that is 6265 03:54:24,160 --> 03:54:26,479 the fact that it is on the agenda does 6266 03:54:26,479 --> 03:54:28,800 not mean that there is a predisposal to 6267 03:54:28,800 --> 03:54:30,560 approve it. The fact that it's on the 6268 03:54:30,560 --> 03:54:32,960 agenda means someone has applied and 6269 03:54:32,960 --> 03:54:35,199 we're going through the process. So 6270 03:54:35,199 --> 03:54:37,439 directing comments towards the merits of 6271 03:54:37,439 --> 03:54:40,720 the project instead of assumptions about 6272 03:54:40,720 --> 03:54:42,160 why it's on the agenda in the first 6273 03:54:42,160 --> 03:54:43,920 place, I think is much more useful when 6274 03:54:43,920 --> 03:54:46,160 you're giving public feedback to the 6275 03:54:46,160 --> 03:54:47,920 council. 6276 03:54:47,920 --> 03:54:49,760 Uh development agreements, I wanted to 6277 03:54:49,760 --> 03:54:52,479 talk really briefly about those. Um, 6278 03:54:52,479 --> 03:54:54,560 development agreements happen when 6279 03:54:54,560 --> 03:54:56,239 there's a reason application. And 6280 03:54:56,239 --> 03:54:59,199 because the council is the body that 6281 03:54:59,199 --> 03:55:00,800 approves reszones, they are the body 6282 03:55:00,800 --> 03:55:02,479 that approves development agreements, 6283 03:55:02,479 --> 03:55:05,920 which creates a weird situation because 6284 03:55:05,920 --> 03:55:09,199 the council is the negotiating party, 6285 03:55:09,199 --> 03:55:10,880 but they don't see the development 6286 03:55:10,880 --> 03:55:14,000 agreement until the application comes to 6287 03:55:14,000 --> 03:55:16,080 them in council meeting. So, there have 6288 03:55:16,080 --> 03:55:18,080 been a lot of comments uh about the 6289 03:55:18,080 --> 03:55:20,399 development agreement and why it's not 6290 03:55:20,399 --> 03:55:22,880 farther along than it is. As I mentioned 6291 03:55:22,880 --> 03:55:24,399 in one of the earlier agenda items 6292 03:55:24,399 --> 03:55:26,720 today, the typical process is actually 6293 03:55:26,720 --> 03:55:28,399 that the council doesn't even see 6294 03:55:28,399 --> 03:55:30,720 development agreements until they're 6295 03:55:30,720 --> 03:55:32,800 about ready to vote. And sometimes they 6296 03:55:32,800 --> 03:55:34,399 don't even see the agreement. They just 6297 03:55:34,399 --> 03:55:37,359 vote on the proposal and the agreement 6298 03:55:37,359 --> 03:55:40,399 gets executed later. Sophisticated 6299 03:55:40,399 --> 03:55:42,080 developers like Vesper [clears throat] 6300 03:55:42,080 --> 03:55:43,920 sometimes will propose development 6301 03:55:43,920 --> 03:55:46,160 agreements early, but that creates a 6302 03:55:46,160 --> 03:55:50,160 two-step process where staff is re at up 6303 03:55:50,160 --> 03:55:51,920 to this point has been reviewing the 6304 03:55:51,920 --> 03:55:54,239 development agreement to help the 6305 03:55:54,239 --> 03:55:57,680 developer clarify what their proposal 6306 03:55:57,680 --> 03:56:00,399 is. The fact that we have a draft in 6307 03:56:00,399 --> 03:56:03,920 hand does not mean staff is already 100% 6308 03:56:03,920 --> 03:56:05,680 signed off on it, that the executive 6309 03:56:05,680 --> 03:56:07,199 branch is already ready to recommend 6310 03:56:07,199 --> 03:56:10,800 approval of that. It means that we have 6311 03:56:10,800 --> 03:56:13,520 a clarified proposal of what the 6312 03:56:13,520 --> 03:56:15,680 developer is willing to profer ready for 6313 03:56:15,680 --> 03:56:17,840 the council to review and give feedback 6314 03:56:17,840 --> 03:56:21,760 on and ask for changes to and and say 6315 03:56:21,760 --> 03:56:24,399 which parts they're not satisfied with 6316 03:56:24,399 --> 03:56:26,399 which leads into uh the point that I 6317 03:56:26,399 --> 03:56:28,000 have for the council which is I know 6318 03:56:28,000 --> 03:56:31,600 we're this is probably a vain hope in 6319 03:56:31,600 --> 03:56:33,439 the amount of time that we have left but 6320 03:56:33,439 --> 03:56:35,680 what staff is really hoping for from the 6321 03:56:35,680 --> 03:56:38,640 council is not just comments back to the 6322 03:56:38,640 --> 03:56:40,800 developer about additional information 6323 03:56:40,800 --> 03:56:43,520 that they need. But the things that you 6324 03:56:43,520 --> 03:56:45,600 think are deficient about both of the 6325 03:56:45,600 --> 03:56:48,000 agreements, the things that you as a 6326 03:56:48,000 --> 03:56:50,720 council want to see changed both in 6327 03:56:50,720 --> 03:56:53,680 terms of uh things that are missing or 6328 03:56:53,680 --> 03:56:55,680 things that you want changed. And again, 6329 03:56:55,680 --> 03:56:57,760 because you act as a body, be very 6330 03:56:57,760 --> 03:56:59,439 helpful to the degree possible that 6331 03:56:59,439 --> 03:57:00,880 those things are presented through 6332 03:57:00,880 --> 03:57:02,800 motions so that we know what the body 6333 03:57:02,800 --> 03:57:06,000 wants rather than individual counselors. 6334 03:57:06,000 --> 03:57:08,640 Um, 6335 03:57:08,640 --> 03:57:09,920 and that I think that's everything I 6336 03:57:09,920 --> 03:57:13,120 had. Any questions about any of that? 6337 03:57:13,120 --> 03:57:15,840 >> You just address 6338 03:57:15,840 --> 03:57:18,239 the OSPR question. 6339 03:57:18,239 --> 03:57:20,880 >> Oh, yes. So, one of the That's a great 6340 03:57:20,880 --> 03:57:22,800 question. So, one of the public feedback 6341 03:57:22,800 --> 03:57:24,800 items that we've received so far, was 6342 03:57:24,800 --> 03:57:26,479 there was a comment that was submitted 6343 03:57:26,479 --> 03:57:29,840 that said that the OSPR, which the open 6344 03:57:29,840 --> 03:57:32,479 space and preservation uh zone, which is 6345 03:57:32,479 --> 03:57:34,080 one of the city zones, and it applies to 6346 03:57:34,080 --> 03:57:37,439 this property, that it requires 6347 03:57:37,439 --> 03:57:39,680 legally that if any property is taken 6348 03:57:39,680 --> 03:57:41,840 out of that zone, an equal amount of 6349 03:57:41,840 --> 03:57:43,439 property must be placed back into the 6350 03:57:43,439 --> 03:57:46,080 zone. And the contention was it would be 6351 03:57:46,080 --> 03:57:48,319 illegal for the city to reszone this 6352 03:57:48,319 --> 03:57:50,880 property without reszoning other 6353 03:57:50,880 --> 03:57:52,640 property. 6354 03:57:52,640 --> 03:57:55,199 If you look at the zone, that phrase 6355 03:57:55,199 --> 03:57:57,520 came out of the purposes and objective 6356 03:57:57,520 --> 03:57:59,199 section at the beginning of the chapter 6357 03:57:59,199 --> 03:58:01,920 and it doesn't it doesn't include the 6358 03:58:01,920 --> 03:58:03,600 entire sentence. The sentence starts 6359 03:58:03,600 --> 03:58:07,279 with it is intended that and then it 6360 03:58:07,279 --> 03:58:09,199 continues on and says that about the 6361 03:58:09,199 --> 03:58:13,040 replacement. So that contention is that 6362 03:58:13,040 --> 03:58:14,800 it's an accurate statement about what 6363 03:58:14,800 --> 03:58:17,279 the council through the city code has 6364 03:58:17,279 --> 03:58:20,479 said about policy objectives in the 6365 03:58:20,479 --> 03:58:23,279 past. It is not a legal requirement. So 6366 03:58:23,279 --> 03:58:25,040 it is not illegal to remove property 6367 03:58:25,040 --> 03:58:29,120 from the OSPR without replacing it. 6368 03:58:29,120 --> 03:58:30,720 >> Any other questions about that? 6369 03:58:30,720 --> 03:58:33,600 >> Great. Thank you, Brian. Very helpful. 6370 03:58:33,600 --> 03:58:36,479 Um Travis, can should we start with you? 6371 03:58:36,479 --> 03:58:37,359 >> I'll come back. 6372 03:58:37,359 --> 03:58:40,160 >> Okay, Jeff. Well, actually, can I say 6373 03:58:40,160 --> 03:58:40,640 this? 6374 03:58:40,640 --> 03:58:41,840 >> Uhhuh. 6375 03:58:41,840 --> 03:58:43,279 >> Brian was telling me that there's a few 6376 03:58:43,279 --> 03:58:45,439 things that he would really like to come 6377 03:58:45,439 --> 03:58:48,399 away with from this meeting. And so, I 6378 03:58:48,399 --> 03:58:49,840 guess I just want to be cognizant of 6379 03:58:49,840 --> 03:58:51,760 that because if we don't, then we kind 6380 03:58:51,760 --> 03:58:52,880 of have to have another meeting, 6381 03:58:52,880 --> 03:58:54,880 >> right? Um, which we probably will have 6382 03:58:54,880 --> 03:58:56,239 to have more meetings anyways. But I 6383 03:58:56,239 --> 03:58:57,840 just I guess I just wanted to bring that 6384 03:58:57,840 --> 03:59:00,399 up like I don't necessarily need all of 6385 03:59:00,399 --> 03:59:02,080 my questions addressed today, but if 6386 03:59:02,080 --> 03:59:03,840 Brian and staff are like, "Hey, we 6387 03:59:03,840 --> 03:59:05,359 really need these answered from the 6388 03:59:05,359 --> 03:59:07,680 council." I'd be willing to give my time 6389 03:59:07,680 --> 03:59:10,800 up for that. So, I just wanted to throw 6390 03:59:10,800 --> 03:59:12,160 that out there that if we're short on 6391 03:59:12,160 --> 03:59:13,760 time, there might be things we want to 6392 03:59:13,760 --> 03:59:15,120 say. Brian, what do you need to know 6393 03:59:15,120 --> 03:59:18,080 from us? I So, sorry not to cut Jeff off 6394 03:59:18,080 --> 03:59:20,239 or anybody else can talk whatever say 6395 03:59:20,239 --> 03:59:22,560 whatever they want, but I just wanted to 6396 03:59:22,560 --> 03:59:24,000 >> make sure we're covering what we really 6397 03:59:24,000 --> 03:59:24,880 need to cover today. 6398 03:59:24,880 --> 03:59:26,399 >> I appreciate that, Councilman. The two 6399 03:59:26,399 --> 03:59:27,760 most important from my perspective 6400 03:59:27,760 --> 03:59:29,040 actually have to do with the purchase 6401 03:59:29,040 --> 03:59:30,880 agreement and not with the development 6402 03:59:30,880 --> 03:59:32,960 agreement. And that is there's been a 6403 03:59:32,960 --> 03:59:37,359 lot of discussion about whether this big gate structured framework is 6404 03:59:37,359 --> 03:59:39,600 workable or not. And if you've seen the 6405 03:59:39,600 --> 03:59:41,520 latest draft, one of the things that it 6406 03:59:41,520 --> 03:59:46,160 has changed from previous drafts is it defines which gates are under the 6407 03:59:46,160 --> 03:59:47,600 council's control, which are the ones 6408 03:59:47,600 --> 03:59:50,479 about the property transaction. Well, 6409 03:59:50,479 --> 03:59:52,319 the whole reason we're doing this gate 6410 03:59:52,319 --> 03:59:53,680 structure is because we just haven't 6411 03:59:53,680 --> 03:59:55,439 answered any of those questions yet. But 6412 03:59:55,439 --> 03:59:58,080 if the council as a body could tell us 6413 03:59:58,080 --> 03:59:59,840 today 6414 03:59:59,840 --> 04:00:02,800 how much and again I want to make clear 6415 04:00:02,800 --> 04:00:04,319 that by answering these questions you're 6416 04:00:04,319 --> 04:00:06,080 not preapproving the project or even 6417 04:00:06,080 --> 04:00:08,239 suggesting that you're in favor of it's 6418 04:00:08,239 --> 04:00:10,800 more like what would the answer have to 6419 04:00:10,800 --> 04:00:12,880 be for you to even consider it further 6420 04:00:12,880 --> 04:00:15,680 right and the two questions are what 6421 04:00:15,680 --> 04:00:18,160 property would you be willing to sell 6422 04:00:18,160 --> 04:00:20,319 whether the exact acreage and legal 6423 04:00:20,319 --> 04:00:21,760 description of what you would be willing 6424 04:00:21,760 --> 04:00:23,920 to sell whether it's the entire parcel 6425 04:00:23,920 --> 04:00:25,439 or just the parcel that they're 6426 04:00:25,439 --> 04:00:27,840 developing uh is a really important 6427 04:00:27,840 --> 04:00:29,279 question for that document. The other 6428 04:00:29,279 --> 04:00:32,000 one is they've proposed a land trade and 6429 04:00:32,000 --> 04:00:33,920 they've proposed a specific piece of 6430 04:00:33,920 --> 04:00:36,640 specific parcel for the trade. Is that 6431 04:00:36,640 --> 04:00:39,279 parcel acceptable for you as a trade? If 6432 04:00:39,279 --> 04:00:41,840 you answered those two questions, the 6433 04:00:41,840 --> 04:00:43,520 entire face of the real estate purchase 6434 04:00:43,520 --> 04:00:45,760 agreement could could change between now 6435 04:00:45,760 --> 04:00:48,880 and the next meeting and look more like 6436 04:00:48,880 --> 04:00:50,800 a regular purchase agreement where 6437 04:00:50,800 --> 04:00:53,520 there's just exhibits with the with the 6438 04:00:53,520 --> 04:00:55,279 property descriptions and you're just 6439 04:00:55,279 --> 04:00:57,199 doing a regular land deal instead of 6440 04:00:57,199 --> 04:00:59,279 these gates. 6441 04:00:59,279 --> 04:01:01,040 >> Great. Thank you. 6442 04:01:01,040 --> 04:01:04,000 uh councelor Whitlock 6443 04:01:04,000 --> 04:01:05,600 other things you need from them that 6444 04:01:05,600 --> 04:01:08,000 you'd like them to address more 6445 04:01:08,000 --> 04:01:10,880 information that to get to you or and 6446 04:01:10,880 --> 04:01:14,239 again they can schedule oneoffs as well. 6447 04:01:14,239 --> 04:01:17,680 Yeah, I I [clears throat] think I have a 6448 04:01:17,680 --> 04:01:19,520 lot of questions, but I'm not necess of 6449 04:01:19,520 --> 04:01:21,520 them are actually 6450 04:01:21,520 --> 04:01:25,359 to the city also. Um I'd have to 6451 04:01:25,359 --> 04:01:28,239 organize my thoughts if I if I ones that 6452 04:01:28,239 --> 04:01:29,359 are specifically like outstanding 6453 04:01:29,359 --> 04:01:32,160 questions to the the developer, but I'll 6454 04:01:32,160 --> 04:01:34,399 just list them and people can decide. So 6455 04:01:34,399 --> 04:01:37,299 one of the questions I have is um so 6456 04:01:37,299 --> 04:01:43,680 [clears throat] we have we have in our code a certain requirement of 6457 04:01:43,680 --> 04:01:46,479 number of parking stalls per se. I think 6458 04:01:46,479 --> 04:01:50,160 it's 4 to one. And I'm curious if if 6459 04:01:50,160 --> 04:01:51,840 this if the city staff or if the 6460 04:01:51,840 --> 04:01:54,000 developer knows 6461 04:01:54,000 --> 04:01:56,080 are there any venues close to that size 6462 04:01:56,080 --> 04:01:57,840 that are parked to code like for example 6463 04:01:57,840 --> 04:02:00,080 the Marriott Center actually parked to 6464 04:02:00,080 --> 04:02:02,960 code at that ratio 6465 04:02:02,960 --> 04:02:07,030 is LLA or stadium. 6466 04:02:07,040 --> 04:02:08,319 » That's a question I'd like to understand 6467 04:02:08,319 --> 04:02:09,680 just because I think it helps it would 6468 04:02:09,680 --> 04:02:12,720 help us and the public can see kind of 6469 04:02:12,720 --> 04:02:15,199 the ratios we're talking about. Another 6470 04:02:15,199 --> 04:02:18,399 question I have is um 6471 04:02:18,399 --> 04:02:20,960 >> but but specifically Jeff the 4:1 number 6472 04:02:20,960 --> 04:02:22,800 because it's in the city's provo city's 6473 04:02:22,800 --> 04:02:23,199 code. 6474 04:02:23,199 --> 04:02:25,199 >> Yeah, that would be about 5,000 sold 6475 04:02:25,199 --> 04:02:26,319 you're talking about doing actually 6476 04:02:26,319 --> 04:02:27,199 you're thinking about being a little bit 6477 04:02:27,199 --> 04:02:28,640 less than that but I imagine we give 6478 04:02:28,640 --> 04:02:30,479 them an exemption on that but I'm not 6479 04:02:30,479 --> 04:02:33,199 >> when you when you add the hotel and when 6480 04:02:33,199 --> 04:02:35,760 you add the retail the the calculation I 6481 04:02:35,760 --> 04:02:38,239 think was 5,125 or something like that. 6482 04:02:38,239 --> 04:02:42,399 >> That's right. That's makes sense to me. 6483 04:02:42,399 --> 04:02:45,199 Uh, another thing is that that there's a 6484 04:02:45,199 --> 04:02:50,870 line in the development agreement um 6485 04:02:50,880 --> 04:02:53,600 that says consider and where appropriate 6486 04:02:53,600 --> 04:02:55,279 support and administer ting tax 6487 04:02:55,279 --> 04:02:58,080 increment financing. and and I was just 6488 04:02:58,080 --> 04:02:59,840 I'm very curious about more details on 6489 04:02:59,840 --> 04:03:04,560 that like what I I know it's early to to 6490 04:03:04,560 --> 04:03:06,800 um get all the specifics about that. But 6491 04:03:06,800 --> 04:03:08,080 even if there's like a proposed 6492 04:03:08,080 --> 04:03:09,520 framework or understanding of like what 6493 04:03:09,520 --> 04:03:11,520 the ask will be because I feel like 6494 04:03:11,520 --> 04:03:14,000 within that language, we could move 6495 04:03:14,000 --> 04:03:16,880 forward and find the ask is a 9010 split 6496 04:03:16,880 --> 04:03:19,359 on a $10 million cap or $20 million cap 6497 04:03:19,359 --> 04:03:20,560 because that's ultimately what would 6498 04:03:20,560 --> 04:03:23,040 require to get this pencil on their end 6499 04:03:23,040 --> 04:03:24,800 and that puts us in a bit of an awkward 6500 04:03:24,800 --> 04:03:27,040 position. Now, I think the develop I 6501 04:03:27,040 --> 04:03:28,399 think development will allow us at that 6502 04:03:28,399 --> 04:03:30,319 point to pull back, but is that any 6503 04:03:30,319 --> 04:03:32,960 that's I have questions around that. Um, 6504 04:03:32,960 --> 04:03:34,000 I think that's what I have for now. I'd 6505 04:03:34,000 --> 04:03:34,880 have to look at my notes a little bit 6506 04:03:34,880 --> 04:03:35,120 more. 6507 04:03:35,120 --> 04:03:39,680 >> Okay. Thank you, Jeff. Councelor Bogden, 6508 04:03:39,680 --> 04:03:41,279 >> I think we need to get to Brian's 6509 04:03:41,279 --> 04:03:45,199 questions as well. I think I'm 6510 04:03:45,199 --> 04:03:47,199 I've asked a lot of public questions 6511 04:03:47,199 --> 04:03:49,520 here, but the one thing that I would 6512 04:03:49,520 --> 04:03:52,160 need to know before I could say how much 6513 04:03:52,160 --> 04:03:53,840 land are we willing to sell or willing 6514 04:03:53,840 --> 04:03:57,439 not to sell is what is your thing for 6515 04:03:57,439 --> 04:04:00,160 the conservation ement? Because to me, I 6516 04:04:00,160 --> 04:04:02,319 would say no, I'll only sell you this 6517 04:04:02,319 --> 04:04:03,920 much land and we'll put this in the 6518 04:04:03,920 --> 04:04:05,680 conservation easement. But I need to 6519 04:04:05,680 --> 04:04:08,399 know that before I can make that one 6520 04:04:08,399 --> 04:04:10,080 decision that Brian wants today. 6521 04:04:10,080 --> 04:04:14,479 >> Okay. But I guess are you saying by that you would be willing to sell them 6522 04:04:14,479 --> 04:04:16,720 the entire parcel if the conservation 6523 04:04:16,720 --> 04:04:19,920 easement specifics met your approval? Is 6524 04:04:19,920 --> 04:04:21,199 that fair? 6525 04:04:21,199 --> 04:04:24,389 >> Okay. 6526 04:04:24,399 --> 04:04:25,600 » Follow-up question, council. 6527 04:04:25,600 --> 04:04:27,359 >> Sorry, I've got my I got my my notes 6528 04:04:27,359 --> 04:04:31,199 together now. So the other uh 6529 04:04:31,199 --> 04:04:32,560 the other question I'd like to see this 6530 04:04:32,560 --> 04:04:34,800 is for the developers is or or the 6531 04:04:34,800 --> 04:04:38,080 Vesper project is you gave this 6532 04:04:38,080 --> 04:04:41,680 distribution of of um people coming into 6533 04:04:41,680 --> 04:04:42,880 the venue which I think was very 6534 04:04:42,880 --> 04:04:43,840 helpful. Thank you. That's a great 6535 04:04:43,840 --> 04:04:46,000 analysis. And then you asserted at the 6536 04:04:46,000 --> 04:04:48,080 end it's going to be similar leaving. 6537 04:04:48,080 --> 04:04:50,399 That was contradictory to my experience 6538 04:04:50,399 --> 04:04:52,160 having experienced events is people 6539 04:04:52,160 --> 04:04:53,520 leave a lot faster than they come. like 6540 04:04:53,520 --> 04:04:55,520 you go to BYU game day and you it's a 6541 04:04:55,520 --> 04:04:57,279 slow trickle in and then everyone leaves 6542 04:04:57,279 --> 04:04:58,080 at once. 6543 04:04:58,080 --> 04:04:59,840 >> So I would like to see data backing up 6544 04:04:59,840 --> 04:05:02,000 that assertion because it it ring ring 6545 04:05:02,000 --> 04:05:02,880 untrue to me. 6546 04:05:02,880 --> 04:05:03,439 >> Yeah. 6547 04:05:03,439 --> 04:05:08,479 >> Um another another question I had is um 6548 04:05:08,479 --> 04:05:11,199 what so again this might be hard 6549 04:05:11,199 --> 04:05:12,720 difficult to do but even if it's just 6550 04:05:12,720 --> 04:05:14,080 thoughts or frameworks. So you mentioned 6551 04:05:14,080 --> 04:05:15,680 there's going to need to be some private 6552 04:05:15,680 --> 04:05:18,319 public partnership in funding the 6553 04:05:18,319 --> 04:05:20,640 overpass. Are there any other elements 6554 04:05:20,640 --> 04:05:22,800 of infrastructure investments that will 6555 04:05:22,800 --> 04:05:25,680 require public support? And I understand 6556 04:05:25,680 --> 04:05:26,960 that there will be additional public 6557 04:05:26,960 --> 04:05:30,000 benefits apart from this arena or uh 6558 04:05:30,000 --> 04:05:31,359 amphitheater, but that's something I 6559 04:05:31,359 --> 04:05:32,800 would like to understand better to the 6560 04:05:32,800 --> 04:05:34,640 degree that you can share it. Again, I 6561 04:05:34,640 --> 04:05:37,760 understand it might be limited. Um, and 6562 04:05:37,760 --> 04:05:39,520 then 6563 04:05:39,520 --> 04:05:40,800 this is something you shared a little 6564 04:05:40,800 --> 04:05:42,080 bit and I have a better understanding 6565 04:05:42,080 --> 04:05:45,680 after a recent meeting I have, but um, 6566 04:05:45,680 --> 04:05:47,439 one of the me one of the big concerns I 6567 04:05:47,439 --> 04:05:49,439 think from the planning commission was 6568 04:05:49,439 --> 04:05:51,199 sort of the the rate of utilization. 6569 04:05:51,199 --> 04:05:52,479 It's been said here a couple times 6570 04:05:52,479 --> 04:05:54,160 tonight of it'll be two to three shows a 6571 04:05:54,160 --> 04:05:56,880 week or three to four shows a week. I 6572 04:05:56,880 --> 04:05:58,800 I'd like to understand a little bit 6573 04:05:58,800 --> 04:06:01,199 better. I'm not saying I think from your 6574 04:06:01,199 --> 04:06:02,560 incentives, you're incentivized to do as 6575 04:06:02,560 --> 04:06:03,680 many shows there as possible, 6576 04:06:03,680 --> 04:06:07,359 >> right? But I think um 6577 04:06:07,359 --> 04:06:09,439 is there like is there any a willingness 6578 04:06:09,439 --> 04:06:11,600 or agreement to to sort of put 6579 04:06:11,600 --> 04:06:13,840 parameters on that because I guess I 6580 04:06:13,840 --> 04:06:15,920 think the public the worst outcome from 6581 04:06:15,920 --> 04:06:18,000 the public in this situation is 365 6582 04:06:18,000 --> 04:06:19,520 shows a year and again this is probably 6583 04:06:19,520 --> 04:06:20,800 practically unrealistic because there's 6584 04:06:20,800 --> 04:06:22,560 a market capacity but I'm just 6585 04:06:22,560 --> 04:06:24,399 illustrating an extreme example. Yeah. 6586 04:06:24,399 --> 04:06:27,120 365 shows a year at various times. We 6587 04:06:27,120 --> 04:06:28,479 are getting an assertion from you all 6588 04:06:28,479 --> 04:06:30,399 that this will be a couple shows a week 6589 04:06:30,399 --> 04:06:32,239 and it'll be perfectly land sort of 6590 04:06:32,239 --> 04:06:35,439 where people come in off sites pe pe pe pe pe pe pe pe pe pe pe pe pe peak hours and people leave 6591 04:06:35,439 --> 04:06:37,279 out of peak hours but is that always 6592 04:06:37,279 --> 04:06:39,120 going to p be the case like will a show 6593 04:06:39,120 --> 04:06:41,040 on Saturday start at 2 p.m. example, in 6594 04:06:41,040 --> 04:06:43,520 which case it would land right on the 6595 04:06:43,520 --> 04:06:46,319 problematic area. So, details on that 6596 04:06:46,319 --> 04:06:48,239 would be helpful. 6597 04:06:48,239 --> 04:06:50,080 Last, this is probably more of a public 6598 04:06:50,080 --> 04:06:52,319 works question, but I'm curious about 6599 04:06:52,319 --> 04:06:54,160 storm drain and the river. This is a lot 6600 04:06:54,160 --> 04:06:57,120 of added concrete right next to Pro 6601 04:06:57,120 --> 04:06:59,439 River and that's something that I given 6602 04:06:59,439 --> 04:07:01,760 just the council's emphasis on river 6603 04:07:01,760 --> 04:07:03,199 health and river quality, that's 6604 04:07:03,199 --> 04:07:04,960 something that I have questions about. 6605 04:07:04,960 --> 04:07:07,040 And then Brian to answer your questions, 6606 04:07:07,040 --> 04:07:08,560 I would personally be more comfortable 6607 04:07:08,560 --> 04:07:10,640 with just selling the land they need. 6608 04:07:10,640 --> 04:07:13,120 Um, 6609 04:07:13,120 --> 04:07:15,840 in sort of a roundabout like I the sort 6610 04:07:15,840 --> 04:07:17,680 of sell the land and then give it back 6611 04:07:17,680 --> 04:07:19,520 to you in terms of conservation seems a 6612 04:07:19,520 --> 04:07:21,600 bit convoluted. I think just sell the 6613 04:07:21,600 --> 04:07:23,279 land they need and it seems the 6614 04:07:23,279 --> 04:07:25,520 cleanest. That's my that's my initial 6615 04:07:25,520 --> 04:07:27,520 reaction. And then to the second 6616 04:07:27,520 --> 04:07:29,120 question, I need to look at it more. I 6617 04:07:29,120 --> 04:07:30,239 don't know if I can answer that today. 6618 04:07:30,239 --> 04:07:31,760 Sorry. That's 25. 6619 04:07:31,760 --> 04:07:34,160 >> And can we get the questions, Brian, 6620 04:07:34,160 --> 04:07:36,080 that everybody asks to the entire 6621 04:07:36,080 --> 04:07:38,720 council, not just to each individual 6622 04:07:38,720 --> 04:07:40,800 council member, please? 6623 04:07:40,800 --> 04:07:41,680 >> Yeah, sure. 6624 04:07:41,680 --> 04:07:42,960 >> Something that even because a lot of 6625 04:07:42,960 --> 04:07:44,640 these are public questions as well, 6626 04:07:44,640 --> 04:07:45,040 >> right? 6627 04:07:45,040 --> 04:07:47,120 >> Something that we can share with the 6628 04:07:47,120 --> 04:07:48,239 public as well. 6629 04:07:48,239 --> 04:07:49,840 >> Yeah. So, you're just asking for a list 6630 04:07:49,840 --> 04:07:51,600 of the questions that are being asked. 6631 04:07:51,600 --> 04:07:53,840 >> Well, as you respond to them, let's 6632 04:07:53,840 --> 04:07:55,760 circulate the information. Got Yeah, 6633 04:07:55,760 --> 04:07:57,680 >> because you know his questions are going 6634 04:07:57,680 --> 04:07:59,439 to overlap with mine, but I'm going to 6635 04:07:59,439 --> 04:08:02,160 wait for mine because we have so much 6636 04:08:02,160 --> 04:08:03,520 time and we've got things that we've got 6637 04:08:03,520 --> 04:08:04,560 to get done. 6638 04:08:04,560 --> 04:08:05,359 >> Right. Okay. 6639 04:08:05,359 --> 04:08:07,600 >> Okay. Let's move to our counselors um 6640 04:08:07,600 --> 04:08:10,239 online. Um let's start with councelor 6641 04:08:10,239 --> 04:08:12,800 Katrice Mccay and then councelor Rachel 6642 04:08:12,800 --> 04:08:14,160 Whipple and then councelor Craig 6643 04:08:14,160 --> 04:08:28,710 Christensen. Katrice. 6644 04:08:28,720 --> 04:08:30,080 » Rachel, are you ready? Would you like to 6645 04:08:30,080 --> 04:08:32,560 go ahead while I text Krice? 6646 04:08:32,560 --> 04:08:35,680 >> Um, yes, I can. Go ahead. So, a lot of 6647 04:08:35,680 --> 04:08:37,760 my questions have to do with the 6648 04:08:37,760 --> 04:08:41,279 conservation easement or not. Um, 6649 04:08:41,279 --> 04:08:43,279 thinking about it, I would think that a 6650 04:08:43,279 --> 04:08:45,680 conservation easement on this would be 6651 04:08:45,680 --> 04:08:47,760 pretty expensive because you're selling 6652 04:08:47,760 --> 04:08:49,600 the right to develop and we've already 6653 04:08:49,600 --> 04:08:52,960 proven that this area is a viable quarry 6654 04:08:52,960 --> 04:08:55,840 and everything. So, I'm a little 6655 04:08:55,840 --> 04:08:57,840 concerned about, 6656 04:08:57,840 --> 04:09:00,160 you know, those potentially expensive 6657 04:09:00,160 --> 04:09:03,040 development rights and extraction rights 6658 04:09:03,040 --> 04:09:05,279 making the conservation easement really 6659 04:09:05,279 --> 04:09:10,319 expensive. Um I would also want to have 6660 04:09:10,319 --> 04:09:13,680 some kind of binding commitment about 6661 04:09:13,680 --> 04:09:16,239 the terms of the conservation easement. 6662 04:09:16,239 --> 04:09:19,359 Um you know I would want in that area 6663 04:09:19,359 --> 04:09:21,840 protected to have no commercial, no 6664 04:09:21,840 --> 04:09:25,199 residential and no further extraction 6665 04:09:25,199 --> 04:09:29,199 um activities. I would be happy to have 6666 04:09:29,199 --> 04:09:30,960 trails there. I think it would make 6667 04:09:30,960 --> 04:09:33,920 sense possibly to have restrooms there 6668 04:09:33,920 --> 04:09:37,040 as like trail head support. Um, I would 6669 04:09:37,040 --> 04:09:38,960 even be okay with something like a 6670 04:09:38,960 --> 04:09:40,960 pavilion or something, you know, so you 6671 04:09:40,960 --> 04:09:43,120 can like a little nature school or 6672 04:09:43,120 --> 04:09:46,399 something like that. But I would want 6673 04:09:46,399 --> 04:09:50,640 this area to be very strictly bounded so 6674 04:09:50,640 --> 04:09:54,080 that the concerns of commercial creep 6675 04:09:54,080 --> 04:09:57,120 would be addressed. So like no tram. 6676 04:09:57,120 --> 04:09:58,800 We're definitely not building a tram up 6677 04:09:58,800 --> 04:10:00,239 the mountain from the amphitheater. 6678 04:10:00,239 --> 04:10:05,199 Something like that. If we go with the 6679 04:10:05,199 --> 04:10:07,359 alternate proposal where the city only 6680 04:10:07,359 --> 04:10:09,359 sells the land that will be necessary 6681 04:10:09,359 --> 04:10:15,520 for the development, I understand that can't be fully defined until after 6682 04:10:15,520 --> 04:10:17,600 all of the geotechnical studies and 6683 04:10:17,600 --> 04:10:19,040 other things are done because the 6684 04:10:19,040 --> 04:10:20,960 buildings may need to be adjusted on the 6685 04:10:20,960 --> 04:10:22,880 site. And so there may be a little bit 6686 04:10:22,880 --> 04:10:26,239 of of wiggling on what the exact shape 6687 04:10:26,239 --> 04:10:29,680 of the land to be conveyed would be. Um, 6688 04:10:29,680 --> 04:10:32,640 but if we don't sell all the land, I 6689 04:10:32,640 --> 04:10:34,960 would really like to explore doing some 6690 04:10:34,960 --> 04:10:39,680 sort of a partnership with Vesper to do 6691 04:10:39,680 --> 04:10:41,680 trail improvements on the land that 6692 04:10:41,680 --> 04:10:45,040 remains in Provo City so that we would 6693 04:10:45,040 --> 04:10:48,800 still have that enhanced outdoor space 6694 04:10:48,800 --> 04:10:51,760 access for recreation opportunities for 6695 04:10:51,760 --> 04:10:56,560 our community. So, I basically I'm I'm 6696 04:10:56,560 --> 04:10:58,239 saying I'd want to have trail 6697 04:10:58,239 --> 04:11:02,160 improvements on on an area that we own. 6698 04:11:02,160 --> 04:11:05,269 Um 6699 04:11:05,279 --> 04:11:09,279 I also have questions with that where 6700 04:11:09,279 --> 04:11:12,640 the gun club ends up being if it needs 6701 04:11:12,640 --> 04:11:16,399 to be relocated. I think that the gun 6702 04:11:16,399 --> 04:11:18,479 club use probably is not super 6703 04:11:18,479 --> 04:11:21,520 compatible with an amphitheater use and 6704 04:11:21,520 --> 04:11:23,120 so it probably would need to be 6705 04:11:23,120 --> 04:11:25,279 relocated even if we aren't selling the 6706 04:11:25,279 --> 04:11:28,880 exact land out from under the gun club 6707 04:11:28,880 --> 04:11:30,720 and so I'd like to know a little bit 6708 04:11:30,720 --> 04:11:33,199 more about that. I haven't gotten to go 6709 04:11:33,199 --> 04:11:34,640 shooting there yet, but I understand 6710 04:11:34,640 --> 04:11:37,359 that it's a really popular facility and 6711 04:11:37,359 --> 04:11:39,600 so I want to keep that as an asset for 6712 04:11:39,600 --> 04:11:42,160 our community. But I also recognize that 6713 04:11:42,160 --> 04:11:44,319 if we move it, there will need to be 6714 04:11:44,319 --> 04:11:46,399 some sort of sight mitigation because of 6715 04:11:46,399 --> 04:11:49,040 the lead and shells and other things 6716 04:11:49,040 --> 04:11:52,880 that have frankly contaminated that area 6717 04:11:52,880 --> 04:11:55,760 through its use of the gun club. So I 6718 04:11:55,760 --> 04:12:00,389 want us to be able to look into that 6719 04:12:00,399 --> 04:12:07,760 on the parking everything. I I do repeat 6720 04:12:07,760 --> 04:12:11,359 Jeff's skepticism about the exit times. 6721 04:12:11,359 --> 04:12:13,439 People generally do want to all leave at 6722 04:12:13,439 --> 04:12:15,680 the same time because the thing is done 6723 04:12:15,680 --> 04:12:18,000 unless you're doing I don't know some 6724 04:12:18,000 --> 04:12:20,479 sort of after show things to entice a 6725 04:12:20,479 --> 04:12:23,520 portion of the people to stay longer. Um 6726 04:12:23,520 --> 04:12:25,279 but it's not like people are are 6727 04:12:25,279 --> 04:12:27,760 generally leaving, 6728 04:12:27,760 --> 04:12:29,439 you know, in the fifth inning or 6729 04:12:29,439 --> 04:12:32,319 something. So I'm I'm concerned about 6730 04:12:32,319 --> 04:12:34,880 that. 6731 04:12:34,880 --> 04:12:37,680 And while Vern 6732 04:12:37,680 --> 04:12:40,399 really wanted to push it to the 9010 6733 04:12:40,399 --> 04:12:43,120 split coming from Heber, I've been 6734 04:12:43,120 --> 04:12:45,680 talking to some people who do live in 6735 04:12:45,680 --> 04:12:50,000 the Park City, Heber, Midway, and a lot 6736 04:12:50,000 --> 04:12:51,760 of them are actually quite excited about 6737 04:12:51,760 --> 04:12:55,040 this. They're looking at doing another 6738 04:12:55,040 --> 04:12:57,040 kind of amphitheater venue up there on 6739 04:12:57,040 --> 04:12:58,800 the other side of the canyon to be much 6740 04:12:58,800 --> 04:13:01,439 smaller than this. But even though 6741 04:13:01,439 --> 04:13:03,439 there's a smaller portion of the 6742 04:13:03,439 --> 04:13:05,520 population there, 6743 04:13:05,520 --> 04:13:07,920 um the 6744 04:13:07,920 --> 04:13:12,159 I think there's likely a good portion of 6745 04:13:12,159 --> 04:13:14,239 those residents who would have the 6746 04:13:14,239 --> 04:13:17,439 disposable income to come down and 6747 04:13:17,439 --> 04:13:19,120 attend 6748 04:13:19,120 --> 04:13:22,560 um events at this venue. So, I think it 6749 04:13:22,560 --> 04:13:26,319 may be more than 10%, but I'm I'm happy 6750 04:13:26,319 --> 04:13:28,720 that Vern is acting as our skeptical 6751 04:13:28,720 --> 04:13:33,359 traffic guard and and policing them and 6752 04:13:33,359 --> 04:13:37,520 examining their numbers for us. 6753 04:13:37,520 --> 04:13:41,279 I'm I'm really happy to see how much 6754 04:13:41,279 --> 04:13:43,760 this has changed. I think some changes 6755 04:13:43,760 --> 04:13:47,279 are are still appropriate, but I think 6756 04:13:47,279 --> 04:13:48,800 the biggest concern that I have right 6757 04:13:48,800 --> 04:13:52,399 now is how we end up surrounding the 6758 04:13:52,399 --> 04:13:56,479 project so that there is no creep so 6759 04:13:56,479 --> 04:13:59,680 that it remains fully defined now and in 6760 04:13:59,680 --> 04:14:03,750 perpetuity. 6761 04:14:03,760 --> 04:14:06,000 » Thank you, Rachel. Well, well said, 6762 04:14:06,000 --> 04:14:11,990 Councelor McKay. 6763 04:14:12,000 --> 04:14:16,800 » Hey. Okay. Um, [clears throat] okay. So, 6764 04:14:16,800 --> 04:14:19,680 it talks about the number 20,000. My 6765 04:14:19,680 --> 04:14:22,640 question is, does does this amphitheater 6766 04:14:22,640 --> 04:14:27,269 have grass seating? 6767 04:14:27,279 --> 04:14:28,319 » Um, 6768 04:14:28,319 --> 04:14:29,840 >> like is it going to have seating beyond 6769 04:14:29,840 --> 04:14:32,560 the bench seats? 6770 04:14:32,560 --> 04:14:33,840 Right now we've just we've just 6771 04:14:33,840 --> 04:14:36,560 anticipated it all being uh in seats but 6772 04:14:36,560 --> 04:14:38,880 there will be grass in the area Crice. 6773 04:14:38,880 --> 04:14:40,000 Um 6774 04:14:40,000 --> 04:14:42,080 >> but you will not be selling tickets to 6775 04:14:42,080 --> 04:14:44,159 those grass seats. 6776 04:14:44,159 --> 04:14:45,040 >> No. 6777 04:14:45,040 --> 04:14:47,040 >> Okay. I would like that to be defined in 6778 04:14:47,040 --> 04:14:48,960 the 6779 04:14:48,960 --> 04:14:50,159 development agreement because I think 6780 04:14:50,159 --> 04:14:53,120 that when you be really specific that 6781 04:14:53,120 --> 04:14:55,120 you know we couldn't increase a capacity 6782 04:14:55,120 --> 04:14:57,520 through grass. 6783 04:14:57,520 --> 04:15:00,960 Um, now the trails, I didn't notice in 6784 04:15:00,960 --> 04:15:04,479 the development agreement that there was 6785 04:15:04,479 --> 04:15:05,600 information about the trails. It's 6786 04:15:05,600 --> 04:15:06,800 really important to me that we connect 6787 04:15:06,800 --> 04:15:09,920 all the trails. Um, 6788 04:15:09,920 --> 04:15:11,439 and I know that that was important to 6789 04:15:11,439 --> 04:15:13,520 you guys. So, I just want to make sure 6790 04:15:13,520 --> 04:15:18,159 that that is spelled out and will and 6791 04:15:18,159 --> 04:15:20,080 that the trails will be usable even when 6792 04:15:20,080 --> 04:15:21,760 events are going on. Like when you have 6793 04:15:21,760 --> 04:15:23,920 events at Sundance, per se, you can 6794 04:15:23,920 --> 04:15:27,120 still go up and hike or walk around or 6795 04:15:27,120 --> 04:15:29,439 like you're not infringed upon or like 6796 04:15:29,439 --> 04:15:33,920 limited in going around. 6797 04:15:33,920 --> 04:15:35,520 Um, so that's something I was thinking 6798 04:15:35,520 --> 04:15:39,359 about. Um, there's a big concern about 6799 04:15:39,359 --> 04:15:41,359 the commercial 6800 04:15:41,359 --> 04:15:43,040 and when I've talked to you, you've said 6801 04:15:43,040 --> 04:15:47,040 that it will indeed just be merch of the 6802 04:15:47,040 --> 04:15:49,120 artist while they're in concert. I think 6803 04:15:49,120 --> 04:15:50,640 we need to be much more specific about 6804 04:15:50,640 --> 04:15:53,840 that so that we don't have like the the 6805 04:15:53,840 --> 04:15:55,439 mall that people are terrified is going 6806 04:15:55,439 --> 04:16:00,319 to come up the canyon. Um we don't want 6807 04:16:00,319 --> 04:16:02,000 spots 6808 04:16:02,000 --> 04:16:05,120 to be leased for commercial ventures. 6809 04:16:05,120 --> 04:16:07,040 Now, I'm sure there will be events, you 6810 04:16:07,040 --> 04:16:08,720 know, where you do pop-up tents and 6811 04:16:08,720 --> 04:16:10,640 farmers markets or things like that, and 6812 04:16:10,640 --> 04:16:12,800 that's fine, but I want to make sure 6813 04:16:12,800 --> 04:16:15,680 that there's not commercial spa, that 6814 04:16:15,680 --> 04:16:17,120 we're not building out commercial space 6815 04:16:17,120 --> 04:16:20,560 up there, except for the artist merch to 6816 04:16:20,560 --> 04:16:22,960 be bought. 6817 04:16:22,960 --> 04:16:26,479 Um, now the food places, now the food 6818 04:16:26,479 --> 04:16:28,319 places, are they going to be running 6819 04:16:28,319 --> 04:16:29,520 even when the amphitheater is not going 6820 04:16:29,520 --> 04:16:31,040 on? And I do hope they are. I hope that 6821 04:16:31,040 --> 04:16:33,120 you're having food in restaurants that 6822 04:16:33,120 --> 04:16:34,640 will be available to the bikers and 6823 04:16:34,640 --> 04:16:38,560 hikers and visitors to the canyon. 6824 04:16:38,560 --> 04:16:40,000 Do is there a plan that those are going 6825 04:16:40,000 --> 04:16:41,840 to be open all the time? And I'm sure 6826 04:16:41,840 --> 04:16:43,520 there'll be more during a concert, but 6827 04:16:43,520 --> 04:16:46,239 that there will be still 6828 04:16:46,239 --> 04:16:48,239 food places that are open. 6829 04:16:48,239 --> 04:16:49,680 >> Yeah, we we'd have the we'd have the 6830 04:16:49,680 --> 04:16:51,520 hotel Krice that would obviously need 6831 04:16:51,520 --> 04:16:53,600 some of those services. So, the exact 6832 04:16:53,600 --> 04:16:55,120 number I don't know, but yeah, we will 6833 04:16:55,120 --> 04:16:56,319 have we will have something up there 6834 04:16:56,319 --> 04:16:57,680 that would be full-time for the 6835 04:16:57,680 --> 04:16:59,040 restaurants 6836 04:16:59,040 --> 04:17:00,960 >> that the public can access. 6837 04:17:00,960 --> 04:17:01,920 >> Correct. 6838 04:17:01,920 --> 04:17:04,000 >> Okay. 6839 04:17:04,000 --> 04:17:07,030 Um 6840 04:17:07,040 --> 04:17:09,680 I'm happy with the open space stuff, all 6841 04:17:09,680 --> 04:17:11,359 of that. 6842 04:17:11,359 --> 04:17:15,600 Um when after this after everything's 6843 04:17:15,600 --> 04:17:17,680 completed and we know the exact 6844 04:17:17,680 --> 04:17:20,399 conservation amount, not not amount but 6845 04:17:20,399 --> 04:17:24,399 location of where it is. Um will you 6846 04:17:24,399 --> 04:17:26,640 have to reveate that conservation? I 6847 04:17:26,640 --> 04:17:28,000 didn't notice that in the development 6848 04:17:28,000 --> 04:17:32,950 agreement. 6849 04:17:32,960 --> 04:17:34,560 » I think that's what it says, but we we 6850 04:17:34,560 --> 04:17:35,840 can double check for sure. That's the 6851 04:17:35,840 --> 04:17:37,199 intent is that we would want that 6852 04:17:37,199 --> 04:17:38,880 reveated and looking good as quickly as 6853 04:17:38,880 --> 04:17:41,279 we could get it. Right now you have the 6854 04:17:41,279 --> 04:17:43,439 noise weekends till midnight and 6855 04:17:43,439 --> 04:17:46,880 weekdays till 11. I know I go to Deer 6856 04:17:46,880 --> 04:17:48,560 Valley regularly and their their shut 6857 04:17:48,560 --> 04:17:52,159 off is 10 o'clock and I think that's 6858 04:17:52,159 --> 04:17:53,840 more appropriate. I think 10 on 6859 04:17:53,840 --> 04:17:56,159 weekdays, 11 on weekends. I think that 6860 04:17:56,159 --> 04:17:57,760 it's just not necessary to be 11 and 6861 04:17:57,760 --> 04:18:00,560 midnight. That seems too late. 6862 04:18:00,560 --> 04:18:02,080 Um 6863 04:18:02,080 --> 04:18:03,520 I like that the parking's limited to 6864 04:18:03,520 --> 04:18:05,920 acres. I think that was a smart move. 6865 04:18:05,920 --> 04:18:08,479 Um, 6866 04:18:08,479 --> 04:18:14,560 I am worried about the 3.5 per vehicle. 6867 04:18:14,560 --> 04:18:16,479 I don't know. I'm I'm worried that about 6868 04:18:16,479 --> 04:18:19,199 those 6869 04:18:19,199 --> 04:18:21,040 um projections and I am worried about 6870 04:18:21,040 --> 04:18:22,960 the 6871 04:18:22,960 --> 04:18:24,319 we still don't have enough numbers 6872 04:18:24,319 --> 04:18:27,040 because like absolutely the 800 always 6873 04:18:27,040 --> 04:18:28,880 having an automatic right turn is an 6874 04:18:28,880 --> 04:18:31,520 absolute necessity and all these things 6875 04:18:31,520 --> 04:18:33,279 but supposedly you're paying you're 6876 04:18:33,279 --> 04:18:34,080 going to have to pay for all of them 6877 04:18:34,080 --> 04:18:37,439 which seems infeasible. So, I we need a 6878 04:18:37,439 --> 04:18:40,720 better idea from you do or 6879 04:18:40,720 --> 04:18:42,640 exactly how much these things are going 6880 04:18:42,640 --> 04:18:45,680 to cost and what you guys are going to 6881 04:18:45,680 --> 04:18:47,359 do and what you're going to expect help 6882 04:18:47,359 --> 04:18:49,279 with, whether it's from the county or 6883 04:18:49,279 --> 04:18:51,199 you do 6884 04:18:51,199 --> 04:18:54,000 or um anyone else. 6885 04:18:54,000 --> 04:18:55,439 That just still feels like a big 6886 04:18:55,439 --> 04:18:59,990 unknown. 6887 04:19:00,000 --> 04:19:03,199 And that's all I got. 6888 04:19:03,199 --> 04:19:05,359 >> Thank you, Katrice. Councelor 6889 04:19:05,359 --> 04:19:08,000 Christensen, 6890 04:19:08,000 --> 04:19:10,319 >> I think most of my uh questions have 6891 04:19:10,319 --> 04:19:12,000 been answered. Um I had a chance to 6892 04:19:12,000 --> 04:19:13,680 connect with Brian this past weekend. It 6893 04:19:13,680 --> 04:19:15,840 was very helpful. Brian, um I would just 6894 04:19:15,840 --> 04:19:19,120 weigh in. I'm not sure why we would sell 6895 04:19:19,120 --> 04:19:22,399 land and then have that turned back into 6896 04:19:22,399 --> 04:19:23,840 a conservation easement. I mean, the 6897 04:19:23,840 --> 04:19:26,720 city can do that. Uh I I wouldn't see 6898 04:19:26,720 --> 04:19:28,720 selling any more land than was needed 6899 04:19:28,720 --> 04:19:31,520 for the site. Um, I would like to see, 6900 04:19:31,520 --> 04:19:32,880 as Becky pointed out, I would like to 6901 04:19:32,880 --> 04:19:34,560 see elevations of that parking lot as 6902 04:19:34,560 --> 04:19:38,399 you come north into that canyon. Um, how 6903 04:19:38,399 --> 04:19:40,800 that parking lot lays out uh would make 6904 04:19:40,800 --> 04:19:42,640 a difference. So, seeing seeing 6905 04:19:42,640 --> 04:19:46,479 elevations that would be helpful. Um, I 6906 04:19:46,479 --> 04:19:49,120 also I haven't seen the uh the proformer 6907 04:19:49,120 --> 04:19:50,880 that you put together for the in the 6908 04:19:50,880 --> 04:19:54,000 economic impact. Um, and I think it was 6909 04:19:54,000 --> 04:19:57,359 is it 2.3 million, Brian? Is it is that 6910 04:19:57,359 --> 04:19:57,920 right? 6911 04:19:57,920 --> 04:19:58,960 >> Yes. 6912 04:19:58,960 --> 04:20:01,520 So, um 6913 04:20:01,520 --> 04:20:03,279 I would imagine that that actually 6914 04:20:03,279 --> 04:20:08,880 becomes a bigger number over time as you the venue becomes more mature in 6915 04:20:08,880 --> 04:20:11,199 terms of its booking. Uh part of the 6916 04:20:11,199 --> 04:20:14,319 benefit of this big vision is the 6917 04:20:14,319 --> 04:20:16,399 economic impact. 6918 04:20:16,399 --> 04:20:19,520 Um wouldn't we see you've talked about 6919 04:20:19,520 --> 04:20:21,520 um you know when we talked on Saturday 6920 04:20:21,520 --> 04:20:24,319 you know you've talked about a few you 6921 04:20:24,319 --> 04:20:26,000 know like half a dozen or eight or nine 6922 04:20:26,000 --> 04:20:28,159 I don't remember the exact number you 6923 04:20:28,159 --> 04:20:32,720 know 20,000 uh seat events uh seems like 6924 04:20:32,720 --> 04:20:35,439 it would be in the best economic 6925 04:20:35,439 --> 04:20:38,399 development sense to see that be a much 6926 04:20:38,399 --> 04:20:41,520 bigger number and I think you had said 6927 04:20:41,520 --> 04:20:43,520 that that could actually grow and 6928 04:20:43,520 --> 04:20:45,439 develop over time. So, I'd like to see 6929 04:20:45,439 --> 04:20:49,199 what the projections are because that's 6930 04:20:49,199 --> 04:20:50,960 part of the attraction here is the 6931 04:20:50,960 --> 04:20:54,080 economic development. So, um I'd like to 6932 04:20:54,080 --> 04:20:57,439 see what that what those big, you know, 6933 04:20:57,439 --> 04:21:01,279 20,000 seat uh events look like as that 6934 04:21:01,279 --> 04:21:04,560 grows and matures or as the venue itself 6935 04:21:04,560 --> 04:21:06,640 matures. Does that make sense, Brian? 6936 04:21:06,640 --> 04:21:08,159 >> Yes. 6937 04:21:08,159 --> 04:21:10,000 And that number, Craig, that number is 6938 04:21:10,000 --> 04:21:12,319 in the fiscal impact analysis in terms 6939 04:21:12,319 --> 04:21:15,359 of a growth factor. Um and it assumes it 6940 04:21:15,359 --> 04:21:17,920 assumes the the model the annual model 6941 04:21:17,920 --> 04:21:21,920 assumes kind of um that it's stabilized. 6942 04:21:21,920 --> 04:21:23,359 So it wouldn't be it wouldn't be in the 6943 04:21:23,359 --> 04:21:24,720 first few years. But we can take a look 6944 04:21:24,720 --> 04:21:26,560 a little closer a little more closely at 6945 04:21:26,560 --> 04:21:27,920 that to make sure it addresses that 6946 04:21:27,920 --> 04:21:29,680 question. Craig. 6947 04:21:29,680 --> 04:21:31,279 >> Yeah, that's that's all I had. Thank 6948 04:21:31,279 --> 04:21:31,600 you. 6949 04:21:31,600 --> 04:21:33,840 >> Well, Craig, one thing I want to I want 6950 04:21:33,840 --> 04:21:36,479 to bring up is this is that's 2.3 to our 6951 04:21:36,479 --> 04:21:40,080 bottom line. So that's after it's all 6952 04:21:40,080 --> 04:21:42,000 that's not the gross sales tax revenue. 6953 04:21:42,000 --> 04:21:43,680 is something 6954 04:21:43,680 --> 04:21:46,159 like 500 million or something like that 6955 04:21:46,159 --> 04:21:48,159 but ultimately only a portion of that 6956 04:21:48,159 --> 04:21:50,239 comes back to Provo because 6957 04:21:50,239 --> 04:21:50,720 >> correct 6958 04:21:50,720 --> 04:21:51,760 >> you know the county 6959 04:21:51,760 --> 04:21:53,920 >> correct part anyway I just want to make 6960 04:21:53,920 --> 04:21:55,199 sure that that yeah 6961 04:21:55,199 --> 04:21:56,880 >> yeah if the top line grows the bottom 6962 04:21:56,880 --> 04:21:58,399 line is going to grow as well. I was 6963 04:21:58,399 --> 04:22:02,800 just wondering what does that as the as 6964 04:22:02,800 --> 04:22:05,199 the venue matures in terms of ticketing 6965 04:22:05,199 --> 04:22:08,080 and sales and things like that, what do 6966 04:22:08,080 --> 04:22:11,760 what does a 20,000 event uh frequency 6967 04:22:11,760 --> 04:22:14,000 look like as it matures because that 6968 04:22:14,000 --> 04:22:15,279 would impact that would have a huge 6969 04:22:15,279 --> 04:22:18,080 impact on on that number that eventually 6970 04:22:18,080 --> 04:22:22,000 trickles down to Provo. 6971 04:22:22,000 --> 04:22:25,120 >> Yep. No, that makes sense, Craig. 6972 04:22:25,120 --> 04:22:26,381 >> Thank you, Craig. 6973 04:22:26,381 --> 04:22:27,359 [clears throat and cough] 6974 04:22:27,359 --> 04:22:30,960 As I consider the um emails that come to 6975 04:22:30,960 --> 04:22:33,680 the council members, I I review them. I 6976 04:22:33,680 --> 04:22:36,000 put them into categories. What concerns 6977 04:22:36,000 --> 04:22:38,880 are? They clearly by a large percentage 6978 04:22:38,880 --> 04:22:41,600 fit into two areas. One is the 6979 04:22:41,600 --> 04:22:44,399 conservation preservation um category 6980 04:22:44,399 --> 04:22:49,199 and second is traffic flow congestion 6981 04:22:49,199 --> 04:22:51,920 um how we'll treat the the inflow and 6982 04:22:51,920 --> 04:22:54,880 outflow. It's been helpful today to get 6983 04:22:54,880 --> 04:22:57,600 this additional information and as you 6984 04:22:57,600 --> 04:23:00,080 convey any any more details in those 6985 04:23:00,080 --> 04:23:02,880 areas, that's really the most feedback 6986 04:23:02,880 --> 04:23:06,239 that we're getting from residents is are 6987 04:23:06,239 --> 04:23:08,880 those two issues. 6988 04:23:08,880 --> 04:23:11,760 Um, 6989 04:23:11,760 --> 04:23:13,680 and I think more information I did see 6990 04:23:13,680 --> 04:23:16,159 more information recently 6991 04:23:16,159 --> 04:23:19,920 uh released on uh numbers of events that 6992 04:23:19,920 --> 04:23:22,080 might be I know early on even in the 6993 04:23:22,080 --> 04:23:25,120 planning commission meeting Brian um you 6994 04:23:25,120 --> 04:23:27,040 mentioned we were unsure still as to how 6995 04:23:27,040 --> 04:23:29,040 many events but I've seen specific 6996 04:23:29,040 --> 04:23:30,640 numbers recently and I'm not sure if 6997 04:23:30,640 --> 04:23:33,191 they're accurate um Spencer but 6998 04:23:33,191 --> 04:23:33,920 [clears throat] 6999 04:23:33,920 --> 04:23:35,760 something like 10 large events per year 7000 04:23:35,760 --> 04:23:38,640 and 100 smaller events 7001 04:23:38,640 --> 04:23:39,359 So, I don't [clears throat] know if 7002 04:23:39,359 --> 04:23:41,120 that's accurate, but I know more 7003 04:23:41,120 --> 04:23:42,960 information is trickling now related to 7004 04:23:42,960 --> 04:23:45,120 that to that as well. 7005 04:23:45,120 --> 04:23:47,279 >> I think Gary to address that concern, I 7006 04:23:47,279 --> 04:23:48,720 think it makes sense for us to put 7007 04:23:48,720 --> 04:23:50,479 together just kind of a high level of 7008 04:23:50,479 --> 04:23:51,600 some of the assumptions that we're 7009 04:23:51,600 --> 04:23:52,720 making on that. Yeah, 7010 04:23:52,720 --> 04:23:54,080 >> we worked with Cody on some of those 7011 04:23:54,080 --> 04:23:55,680 assumptions as well and he kind of ran 7012 04:23:55,680 --> 04:23:57,600 some assumptions. But yeah, the bigger 7013 04:23:57,600 --> 04:23:59,920 that number is, the more traffic impact 7014 04:23:59,920 --> 04:24:01,840 it has, but the the bigger the financial 7015 04:24:01,840 --> 04:24:02,800 benefit strength is. 7016 04:24:02,800 --> 04:24:04,720 >> Okay. 7017 04:24:04,720 --> 04:24:08,319 Well, Brian, uh, Tom, Spencer, Shane, 7018 04:24:08,319 --> 04:24:10,479 David, thank you all for coming and 7019 04:24:10,479 --> 04:24:11,840 being part of this meeting. It was very 7020 04:24:11,840 --> 04:24:13,920 helpful to have us all together in a 7021 04:24:13,920 --> 04:24:16,159 public meeting and, uh, be able to 7022 04:24:16,159 --> 04:24:18,239 address some of these issues. So, I know 7023 04:24:18,239 --> 04:24:20,319 you're still willing to meet in smaller 7024 04:24:20,319 --> 04:24:23,279 groups as we as we have questions. That 7025 04:24:23,279 --> 04:24:25,680 invitation stands, but we appreciate 7026 04:24:25,680 --> 04:24:28,159 your time and help here today. 7027 04:24:28,159 --> 04:24:30,000 >> Thank you. Now, do we need to make 7028 04:24:30,000 --> 04:24:32,720 specific motions on anything or 7029 04:24:32,720 --> 04:24:34,239 >> counselors? 7030 04:24:34,239 --> 04:24:36,399 I just texted Brian, but I'll just say 7031 04:24:36,399 --> 04:24:38,479 it out loud. I was going to think uh 7032 04:24:38,479 --> 04:24:40,960 next steps possibly 7033 04:24:40,960 --> 04:24:43,120 gonna pitch this idea and I can workshop 7034 04:24:43,120 --> 04:24:45,760 it is that we'd come back to another 7035 04:24:45,760 --> 04:24:48,479 work meeting where perhaps Tanner who's 7036 04:24:48,479 --> 04:24:50,000 been leading in our office on the 7037 04:24:50,000 --> 04:24:52,000 analysis of all the documents best has 7038 04:24:52,000 --> 04:24:55,439 sent and then Brian and then Bill from 7039 04:24:55,439 --> 04:24:57,600 administration as well or Bill or 7040 04:24:57,600 --> 04:24:59,520 someone else from planning could lead 7041 04:24:59,520 --> 04:25:01,840 the discussion with Besper here as well 7042 04:25:01,840 --> 04:25:04,080 to try and get motions and clarification 7043 04:25:04,080 --> 04:25:05,920 on council 7044 04:25:05,920 --> 04:25:07,840 desires majority majority desires for 7045 04:25:07,840 --> 04:25:09,439 the development agreement and a purchase 7046 04:25:09,439 --> 04:25:12,640 agreement. I think a work meeting where 7047 04:25:12,640 --> 04:25:14,720 we do that after we get followup from 7048 04:25:14,720 --> 04:25:16,479 you on the questions the council just 7049 04:25:16,479 --> 04:25:18,880 had on all that additional information 7050 04:25:18,880 --> 04:25:20,479 that would be a very productive work 7051 04:25:20,479 --> 04:25:22,560 meeting. But I want to see if council if 7052 04:25:22,560 --> 04:25:24,800 you have feedback on that as far as our 7053 04:25:24,800 --> 04:25:26,960 next step in this process if you're okay 7054 04:25:26,960 --> 04:25:27,760 with that. 7055 04:25:27,760 --> 04:25:30,560 >> Yeah, just to piggyback on that. I I I 7056 04:25:30,560 --> 04:25:32,000 would agree. I think I mean what I've 7057 04:25:32,000 --> 04:25:34,159 seen so far is that again I think 7058 04:25:34,159 --> 04:25:35,760 there's still a sense there's a lot of 7059 04:25:35,760 --> 04:25:38,399 unknowns and I always hesitate to try to 7060 04:25:38,399 --> 04:25:40,399 push you for decisions when you still 7061 04:25:40,399 --> 04:25:43,199 have questions. One because it's not 7062 04:25:43,199 --> 04:25:45,503 fair and two because you won't do it. 7063 04:25:45,503 --> 04:25:48,560 [laughter] And so so uh I think that's I 7064 04:25:48,560 --> 04:25:50,159 think that's probably wise. I think one 7065 04:25:50,159 --> 04:25:51,520 of the things that we can probably do 7066 04:25:51,520 --> 04:25:53,520 internally and I'd like to coordinate 7067 04:25:53,520 --> 04:25:55,520 this with Malia and and Tanner but I 7068 04:25:55,520 --> 04:25:58,319 think we can probably try to even before 7069 04:25:58,319 --> 04:26:01,199 such a work session try to send you 7070 04:26:01,199 --> 04:26:04,000 lists of things that we have compiled 7071 04:26:04,000 --> 04:26:06,720 from your comments to say okay I heard 7072 04:26:06,720 --> 04:26:08,479 only heard this from one person but does 7073 04:26:08,479 --> 04:26:11,279 it does everybody agree with it and and 7074 04:26:11,279 --> 04:26:12,720 it and they just didn't say that because 7075 04:26:12,720 --> 04:26:15,120 it was already said or and try to try to 7076 04:26:15,120 --> 04:26:16,640 get some of that stuff kind of worked 7077 04:26:16,640 --> 04:26:18,319 out even before we get to such a late 7078 04:26:18,319 --> 04:26:19,199 session. Okay, 7079 04:26:19,199 --> 04:26:20,399 >> Brian, I had a question for you. 7080 04:26:20,399 --> 04:26:24,159 Something that might be helpful is I I 7081 04:26:24,159 --> 04:26:26,560 really appreciate the flexibility and 7082 04:26:26,560 --> 04:26:27,760 some of the recent changes to the 7083 04:26:27,760 --> 04:26:30,000 difference or sorry the the uh 7084 04:26:30,000 --> 04:26:31,600 development agreement with the different 7085 04:26:31,600 --> 04:26:33,199 gates and I think we talked previously 7086 04:26:33,199 --> 04:26:35,439 that they're discretionary on the 7087 04:26:35,439 --> 04:26:38,080 council. I think it'd be helpful from 7088 04:26:38,080 --> 04:26:39,600 probably you're the right person to give 7089 04:26:39,600 --> 04:26:41,920 us guidance on what are the questions 7090 04:26:41,920 --> 04:26:44,560 and concerns that are appropriate to 7091 04:26:44,560 --> 04:26:48,720 seek um answers to and and and if 7092 04:26:48,720 --> 04:26:50,319 they're determining factors for us at 7093 04:26:50,319 --> 04:26:52,560 the vote for that versus ones which are 7094 04:26:52,560 --> 04:26:54,319 fair and appropriate to hold off until 7095 04:26:54,319 --> 04:26:56,399 after that stage gate. 7096 04:26:56,399 --> 04:26:56,800 >> Okay. 7097 04:26:56,800 --> 04:26:59,760 >> Does that make sense? 7098 04:26:59,760 --> 04:27:01,040 any guidance would be just helpful 7099 04:27:01,040 --> 04:27:02,159 because like there there may be some 7100 04:27:02,159 --> 04:27:04,239 things where because again we want to 7101 04:27:04,239 --> 04:27:05,680 always it's very important to me 7102 04:27:05,680 --> 04:27:08,159 personally that we treat every proposal 7103 04:27:08,159 --> 04:27:11,439 and development uh aspiration with 7104 04:27:11,439 --> 04:27:13,840 fairness and there may be things where 7105 04:27:13,840 --> 04:27:16,239 if we don't get our head around by the 7106 04:27:16,239 --> 04:27:18,319 council it may just be the advice like 7107 04:27:18,319 --> 04:27:19,920 the best practice just to vote one way 7108 04:27:19,920 --> 04:27:21,279 versus saying hey I actually think this 7109 04:27:21,279 --> 04:27:23,199 is reasonable to hold on and if you say 7110 04:27:23,199 --> 04:27:25,120 no later that is fair 7111 04:27:25,120 --> 04:27:27,359 >> right right and that I mean I think 7112 04:27:27,359 --> 04:27:29,279 where I'm what I'm hearing from I 7113 04:27:29,279 --> 04:27:31,040 understand it correctly is a lot of 7114 04:27:31,040 --> 04:27:33,279 where that gate framework came from 7115 04:27:33,279 --> 04:27:36,479 because I think it it became 7116 04:27:36,479 --> 04:27:39,439 obvious apparent even if I'm wrong to me 7117 04:27:39,439 --> 04:27:42,479 very early on that there's a lot of 7118 04:27:42,479 --> 04:27:43,920 information that you're wanting that 7119 04:27:43,920 --> 04:27:45,840 there's just no way to have 7120 04:27:45,840 --> 04:27:47,199 >> yeah and it's not fair to ask the 7121 04:27:47,199 --> 04:27:49,760 developer to provide it as them to take 7122 04:27:49,760 --> 04:27:51,680 on too much risk relative to where we 7123 04:27:51,680 --> 04:27:52,399 are in the process 7124 04:27:52,399 --> 04:27:54,640 >> and so the whole gate framework was was 7125 04:27:54,640 --> 04:27:57,600 originally conceived of the idea of 7126 04:27:57,600 --> 04:28:00,000 we're going to give you time to get that 7127 04:28:00,000 --> 04:28:03,439 information later and back out later. 7128 04:28:03,439 --> 04:28:04,960 And and one of the things that I have 7129 04:28:04,960 --> 04:28:07,359 said in another context is to the credit 7130 04:28:07,359 --> 04:28:10,800 of the developer, I've never seen a 7131 04:28:10,800 --> 04:28:13,279 project or a developer so willing to let 7132 04:28:13,279 --> 04:28:16,640 you have those outs, right? I mean, what 7133 04:28:16,640 --> 04:28:19,120 this this gate framework is unique not 7134 04:28:19,120 --> 04:28:22,479 just because uh it's not something that 7135 04:28:22,479 --> 04:28:24,399 people commonly do, but because it's not 7136 04:28:24,399 --> 04:28:26,000 something that most developers would be 7137 04:28:26,000 --> 04:28:29,199 willing to do. uh because it it defers 7138 04:28:29,199 --> 04:28:31,920 their their security and their shity 7139 04:28:31,920 --> 04:28:35,600 down the road so much. But I think it's 7140 04:28:35,600 --> 04:28:37,199 pro it may be the only way to get you 7141 04:28:37,199 --> 04:28:38,880 the information that you need by the 7142 04:28:38,880 --> 04:28:41,760 time you're in it in the way that you're 7143 04:28:41,760 --> 04:28:44,640 going to be feasibly able to get it if 7144 04:28:44,640 --> 04:28:47,520 that makes sense. So, but I'm happy to 7145 04:28:47,520 --> 04:28:48,720 >> just you have any thoughts on that? 7146 04:28:48,720 --> 04:28:52,080 >> Yeah. Share more about that. 7147 04:28:52,080 --> 04:28:54,239 >> All right, Becky will give you the last 7148 04:28:54,239 --> 04:28:57,120 word. So, we didn't ever talk about the 7149 04:28:57,120 --> 04:28:59,120 swap piece. 7150 04:28:59,120 --> 04:29:02,640 Um, it looks like it is like there's no 7151 04:29:02,640 --> 04:29:04,399 access to it. It looks like it's very 7152 04:29:04,399 --> 04:29:06,880 steep terrain. It looks like there is no 7153 04:29:06,880 --> 04:29:09,199 trails on it. 7154 04:29:09,199 --> 04:29:11,760 What is Yeah, it doesn't look like it's 7155 04:29:11,760 --> 04:29:16,239 a piece of property with value. Um, 7156 04:29:16,239 --> 04:29:17,760 that's what I'm thinking. Can we get 7157 04:29:17,760 --> 04:29:19,600 some staff analysis on that? 7158 04:29:19,600 --> 04:29:21,760 >> Okay. to see if maybe parks and wreck 7159 04:29:21,760 --> 04:29:24,159 can even see if it's even valuable 7160 04:29:24,159 --> 04:29:25,520 because if it's not valuable, what's the 7161 04:29:25,520 --> 04:29:27,520 point in having it? 7162 04:29:27,520 --> 04:29:30,720 >> Okay. Thank you, Becky. All right. Thank 7163 04:29:30,720 --> 04:29:32,880 you again, Brian and team for your help 7164 04:29:32,880 --> 04:29:35,040 here today and we'll adjourn this 7165 04:29:35,040 --> 04:29:35,520 meeting. 7166 04:29:35,520 --> 04:29:36,479 >> Thank you. 7167 04:29:36,479 --> 04:29:38,560 >> Well, 7168 04:29:38,560 --> 04:29:40,640 yes. 7169 04:29:40,640 --> 04:29:42,640 >> So, first of all, I think we need to 7170 04:29:42,640 --> 04:29:45,439 announce that the last item has been 7171 04:29:45,439 --> 04:29:47,920 >> Okay. 7172 04:29:47,920 --> 04:29:50,960 >> Oh, wait. No, we actually need to that 7173 04:29:50,960 --> 04:29:52,800 we actually need to make have a motion 7174 04:29:52,800 --> 04:29:55,439 to continue the last item because it is 7175 04:29:55,439 --> 04:29:57,680 it's listed on your chair notes as being 7176 04:29:57,680 --> 04:30:00,960 both an RDA and a city as an RDA item, 7177 04:30:00,960 --> 04:30:03,840 but it it is both a an RDA and a city 7178 04:30:03,840 --> 04:30:06,399 item. So, we don't need to do the recess 7179 04:30:06,399 --> 04:30:08,319 and reconvening thing. The last item on 7180 04:30:08,319 --> 04:30:10,720 the agenda is about the Walmart deal 7181 04:30:10,720 --> 04:30:11,920 because we don't have some of those 7182 04:30:11,920 --> 04:30:15,600 agreements uh yet for you. I suggest 7183 04:30:15,600 --> 04:30:17,920 that we move to continue it and the 7184 04:30:17,920 --> 04:30:19,680 night 7185 04:30:19,680 --> 04:30:23,760 >> agenda items out until we have those. 7186 04:30:23,760 --> 04:30:25,600 >> Okay. But we don't need to convene RDA 7187 04:30:25,600 --> 04:30:28,080 to do that. Okay. So, I'm looking for a 7188 04:30:28,080 --> 04:30:31,199 motion to continue that item. 7189 04:30:31,199 --> 04:30:32,960 >> Yep. Make a motion that we continue that 7190 04:30:32,960 --> 04:30:34,399 last item 7191 04:30:34,399 --> 04:30:39,359 >> and the related evening meeting items. 7192 04:30:39,359 --> 04:30:39,760 >> Okay, 7193 04:30:39,760 --> 04:30:40,880 >> I'll second that. 7194 04:30:40,880 --> 04:30:43,359 >> A motion by councelor Hoben, second by 7195 04:30:43,359 --> 04:30:47,279 councelor Bogden. Um, 7196 04:30:47,279 --> 04:30:49,600 so we'll take a vote. Councelor Bogden. 7197 04:30:49,600 --> 04:30:50,000 >> Yes. 7198 04:30:50,000 --> 04:30:51,279 >> Councelor Hoben. 7199 04:30:51,279 --> 04:30:52,800 >> You just don't care about discussion, do 7200 04:30:52,800 --> 04:30:53,680 you? 7201 04:30:53,680 --> 04:30:55,680 >> Yes. [laughter] 7202 04:30:55,680 --> 04:30:58,319 >> He's He's rusty. He's 7203 04:30:58,319 --> 04:30:59,439 >> councelor Whitlock. 7204 04:30:59,439 --> 04:30:59,920 >> Yes. 7205 04:30:59,920 --> 04:31:04,159 >> Councelor G. Yes. Councelor Christensen. 7206 04:31:04,159 --> 04:31:04,880 >> Yes. 7207 04:31:04,880 --> 04:31:06,720 >> Councelor McKay. 7208 04:31:06,720 --> 04:31:08,159 >> Yes. 7209 04:31:08,159 --> 04:31:11,279 >> And councelor Rachel Whipple. 7210 04:31:11,279 --> 04:31:12,640 >> Yes. 7211 04:31:12,640 --> 04:31:15,760 >> Okay. Perfect. And then Shar the LA or 7212 04:31:15,760 --> 04:31:20,960 acting chair. Uh the um the last um item 7213 04:31:20,960 --> 04:31:22,560 is there has been a request for a work 7214 04:31:22,560 --> 04:31:24,239 session for a closed meeting. There's 7215 04:31:24,239 --> 04:31:26,319 actually two items to be discussed 7216 04:31:26,319 --> 04:31:27,840 regarding 7217 04:31:27,840 --> 04:31:31,040 reasonably litigation and sale of city 7218 04:31:31,040 --> 04:31:33,439 property. Both of those are appropriate 7219 04:31:33,439 --> 04:31:35,359 for closed meeting 7220 04:31:35,359 --> 04:31:36,720 for a motion to close. 7221 04:31:36,720 --> 04:31:38,479 >> Okay. Is there a motion to close the 7222 04:31:38,479 --> 04:31:38,880 meeting? 7223 04:31:38,880 --> 04:31:40,880 >> I move that we close the meeting and a 7224 04:31:40,880 --> 04:31:44,880 second. Second. All right. Sourcing 7225 04:31:44,880 --> 04:31:45,439 stuff today. 7226 04:31:45,439 --> 04:31:48,000 >> Any discussion? 7227 04:31:48,000 --> 04:31:50,000 >> I think I'll discuss because I wanted to 7228 04:31:50,000 --> 04:31:52,239 stay here longer. 7229 04:31:52,239 --> 04:31:54,239 >> Okay. Uh, councelor Hoben, 7230 04:31:54,239 --> 04:31:54,640 >> yes. 7231 04:31:54,640 --> 04:31:55,600 >> Councelor Whitlock, 7232 04:31:55,600 --> 04:31:55,840 >> yes. 7233 04:31:55,840 --> 04:31:57,520 >> Councelor Garrett, yes. Councelor 7234 04:31:57,520 --> 04:31:58,159 Bogden, 7235 04:31:58,159 --> 04:31:58,640 >> yes. 7236 04:31:58,640 --> 04:32:02,790 >> Councelor McKay, 7237 04:32:02,800 --> 04:32:03,359 » yes. 7238 04:32:03,359 --> 04:32:05,199 >> Councelor Christensen, 7239 04:32:05,199 --> 04:32:05,760 >> yes. 7240 04:32:05,760 --> 04:32:06,960 >> Councelor Whipple, 7241 04:32:06,960 --> 04:32:09,040 >> yes. Just send me the link. 7242 04:32:09,040 --> 04:32:11,439 >> Now, now we'll dismiss for a closed 7243 04:32:11,439 --> 04:32:13,920 meeting.