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August 25th, 2026.

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>> Recording in progress.

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>> All right. Welcome to the Pro Misipal

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Council work meeting August 25th, 2026

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at 1:00 p.m. We'll do a roll call of the

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elected officials.

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>> Rachel Whipple,

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>> Becky Bogden,

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>> Jeff Wlock,

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>> Katrice Mccay,

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>> Christensen, Gary Garrett,

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>> and we have Travis Hoben on Zoom. Is he

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there yet, Kevin?

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>> Okay, he'll be joining us later. is

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proposed that we approve.

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Although this is a public meeting, only

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the presenters and those invited by the

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council may speak or ask questions

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unless otherwise abided by the chair.

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Please wait to speak until called on by

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the council chair. When speaking, please

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be sure to use a microphone so the

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record is clear and those attending

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virtually can hear you. Please also be

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sure to limit side conversations as they

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interfere with the audio recording. If

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you need to have a side conversation,

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please step out of the work meeting

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room. And we'd like to recognize that

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Mayor Marcia Judkins has joined us. It

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is proposed that we approve the

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following minutes. August 11th, 2026

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work meeting. Are there any objections

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or requested changes?

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>> Did we get that change?

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>> We got those changes.

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>> I'm good. Okay. All right. Seeing no

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objection, I'll declare the minutes

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approved by unanimous consent. Our first

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item of business is an ordinance

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regarding outdoor lighting standards as

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presented by Britain Johnson, our

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council intern.

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Okay,

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» we'd like to announce that Travis Hobin

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is on Zoom.

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>> Okay, perfect. Uh, good afternoon,

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council. This is a little bit more of a

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crowd than the last time I presented a

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couple weeks ago. So, it's good to see

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everyone in person. Um, yeah, I'm just

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here to talk about um some updates to

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our outdoor lighting code um based off

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of our discussion a couple weeks ago. So

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to start, I just wanted to do a brief

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recap for those who weren't here of our

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last meeting discussion. These are the

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three main proposed changes to our

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outdoor lighting code. The first would

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require all new and um replaced outdoor

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lights to meet a color correlated color

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temperature standard um which would be

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3,000 Kelvin or less except for a few

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exceptions. One of those being sports

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facilities that allow 5,700 Kelvin on

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the playing surface. Uh secondly is

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requiring full shielding for all new

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outdoor lighting. Um rather than cut off

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lighting as it was written in our our

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current code. Uh and that implies that

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the light is fully recessed in the

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fixture that all the lights directed

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downward and that none of it escapes

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above the 90 degrees 90 degree plane

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like that. Um, and then lastly is

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updating our language for off- premises

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electronic display science to better

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mirror our on premises electronic

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display science code in title six of

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proip code. Any questions on that

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actually before I unlock them? Okay,

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cool. Um the reason that your

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presentation is slightly different than

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what you saw in your packet is because

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in the first iteration of the proposed

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change for um the electronic signs, um

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nighttime hours were defined as from

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dawn until dusk, which doesn't really

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make sense because dawn is sunrise and

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dusk is sunset. That would be during the

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daytime. So to clarify that we updated

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the language to match better what title

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six says. Um

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>> so that's one slight change that we

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made.

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>> Um

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>> I don't know.

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>> What did you

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» Okay. Um so

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regarding the discussion from last week

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meeting, it felt like the council at

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large wanted some more clarification on

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residential outdoor lights. what will

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happen to existing lights and when they

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would necessitate

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um

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compliance with the new standards for

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color temperature and shielding. And so

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in the exemption section, we've written

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this. It says any existing outdoor

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lighting fixture attached to a structure

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on a residential property as of today um

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would be exempt. meaning that if you

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replace like the light bulb or like a

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component level piece of your fixture,

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you wouldn't have to change it to meet

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the new standards. So, let's say you had

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like a 5,000 Kelvin light that was super

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bright white and it and it burnt out. If

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you can replace it, just the bulb, you

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could replace it with a 5,000 Kelvin

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light the way that this is written.

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However, if the entire fixture needs to

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be complaced like it says in the second

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sentence, um then the exemp exemption

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does not apply. So the entire fixture

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needs to be replaced then it would need

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to meet our our standards with the color

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temperature and shielding. Gotcha.

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>> Okay. And I'm open to discussion on

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that. But that was what I came up with.

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>> Um councelor Bogden had a question about

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lower color temperature lights um and

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the cost difference between higher color

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temperature ones um and wanted some

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information. So um to explain kind of

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how LEDs are manufactured, they start

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with this semiconductor chip and that's

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like the main cost um in producing an

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LED. Then after that a phosphor coating

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is put on top of the light emmitting

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diode and that's called color tuning is the kind of recipe of or the blend of

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phosphor that they put on the the chip

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will determine how warm or how cool the

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light comes out. And so, um, it requires

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a tiny bit more phosphor to have a

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warmer color temperature light, but it's

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fractions of a cent per unit. So, you

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don't see any difference in costs both

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at the retail and the wholesale level.

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Uh, and the last thing I wanted to

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address that I probably should have last

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time, I'm sorry, just to Yeah, go ahead.

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Sure. If you'd go back one, and that

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also would mean that there's no

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significant difference in terms of the

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actual electricity used.

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>> Correct. Um there's no difference in

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electricity used between a lower color

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temperature and a higher color

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temperature. Um the output output and

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color temperature are not equivalent.

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>> So you could have a really really high

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output warm light or a really really low

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output

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cool light or blue light. Does that

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answer your question?

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>> Okay. So um with that in mind um last

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thing I wanted to talk about was public

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education. During my research, as I

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talked to other cities, this was a big

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point of emphasis in that if some of

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these proposed changes uh move forward

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that the public has some kind of

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resource to answer questions that are

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frequently asked and um some

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misconceptions with lighting. I think

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one thing that this uh example does

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really well, this is from Weber County,

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um is the visual examples of what would

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be compliant and what would not be

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compliant with the full shielding on the

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bottom right. Um, I think something like

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that could be beneficial. And in talking

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with uh Patricio, our director of power,

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he said that we he'd be happy to

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collaborate on creating something like

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this um to help our residents. So, with

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that, um, we can amend anything in this

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these proposed changes. Um, continue

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this to a future work meeting or, um,

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let this go to our our night meeting

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item later today. That's all I have.

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>> We do number two. Does that mean

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tonight's meeting is cancelled?

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[laughter]

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>> We still have a recognition.

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>> It's

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» okay. I have a couple questions.

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>> Okay, sure.

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>> Number one, what about like memorials or

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flag lighting where they're lighting up

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the flag?

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>> So, um if you could pull up the

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ordinance, Kevin.

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>> Um there is a a cutout for that.

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>> Okay, great. Um,

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>> my other question is I've had we got

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we've heard a lot from citizens and

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mostly they're excited for this. Like

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they think it's long overdue and they

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really hate a lot of the bright jelly

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type things. So I've had a couple

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citizens though also email that have the

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jelly lights and love them and are very

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concerned about the safety of them. So

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um and I asked them if their jelly

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lights cuz there seems to be a huge

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difference in the brightness

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>> Yeah. There's a wide variety.

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>> There's a wide variety, but specifically

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the jelly light people I talked to said

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there is no ability to change the

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brightness. Do you think that's an

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install feature? Like when they buy it,

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are they picking their brightness or is

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one brand just one thing and another

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brand's another thing? You know what I

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mean?

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>> Um, that's something I could look into

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between now and the night meeting if

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you'd like and and get some more

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clarification on that.

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>> Like, you know, you know the jelly

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lights. It's like it's like year round

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holiday lighting that people put around

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their house.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Some of them are like very dim and not

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very noticeable. Some of them are like

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>> they look like C9 bulbs, but they can

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control the colors. They can control I

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don't know.

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>> Yeah. Like some flash and they're like

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flashing on

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>> the permanent light.

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>> Yeah, the permanent light. Yeah. Um I

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thought I had one more question.

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I think that's it. Becky,

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I have a lot of concern about it. Um,

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Halloween is getting to be a bigger and

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bigger bigger holiday. And our house has

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a lot of Halloween lights.

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>> Becky has the best Halloween house in

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the city.

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>> That's true.

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>> And I haven't had any issues with the

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neighbors. We do shut ours off at 10:00,

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10:30. We are considerate. The neighbor

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across the street, he absolutely loves

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it. Sends his grandkids over.

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Becky, we need to work out parking. You

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your vehicle used to go in my driveway

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or over here or something because we

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have lots of people coming, you know,

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and he's out there on the he's out there

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on the porch handing out Halloween candy

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and and ours goes for a month and you

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can't tell me that we're the only ones

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that have that. So, I do have a concern.

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>> I'm the only one in the the city that

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has. It's not true. We do have some on

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the west side that have some pretty big

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00:09:57,680 --> 00:09:59,200
Halloween

275
00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,120
go through and you got your spook alley.

276
00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,720
There's there's quite a few. Um, and

277
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,519
it's getting to be a bigger and bigger holiday. So, I do take issue with

278
00:10:09,519 --> 00:10:12,080
and even with the jelly lighting, every

279
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,000
holiday is a holiday. Every holiday has

280
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,480
lights. You can even go to even the

281
00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,480
Walmart and you can pick up inflatables

282
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,519
and things for the different holidays.

283
00:10:21,519 --> 00:10:24,800
So, to me, it would be more of a if you

284
00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,240
have the bright lights and if you have

285
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,399
the

286
00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:30,880
Christmas vacation lighthouse and maybe

287
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,760
you need to turn it off at like 10

288
00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,240
10:30, you know, have a cut off date.

289
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:37,040
>> That's interesting.

290
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,600
>> Um, have it open because, you know,

291
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:40,640
there's some people that leave them on

292
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:41,440
all night long.

293
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:42,880
>> Yeah.

294
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,240
>> You know, if you're going to go big and

295
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,160
bold and go home, then maybe you need to

296
00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,000
shut it off. But

297
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,440
>> at 10:30 at night, which is what we do.

298
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,040
In the research I've conducted, most of

299
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,360
the cities that have a curfew for lights

300
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:56,959
like that is 10 pm.

301
00:10:56,959 --> 00:10:57,680
>> So I've seen

302
00:10:57,680 --> 00:10:59,040
>> like our sound ordinance that would make

303
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,160
it easy. So

304
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:00,720
>> yeah,

305
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,160
>> and um

306
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,000
>> I I do have concern for those people

307
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,920
that have jelly lights because it is fun

308
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,519
to drive through Fourth of July and you

309
00:11:07,519 --> 00:11:09,519
see the red, white, and blue flashing.

310
00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:12,160
It is fun to see whatever colors that

311
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,399
they have going on. The other thing I

312
00:11:14,399 --> 00:11:15,920
have concern about is the flood lights

313
00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,320
for the backyard. Um I have those.

314
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,200
Travis Amenity had those. So I you can't

315
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:22,480
tell us we're the only ones that light

316
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:23,279
up the backyard.

317
00:11:23,279 --> 00:11:25,120
>> Those would be loud still. And because

318
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,519
he mentioned even once it burns out, you

319
00:11:27,519 --> 00:11:29,519
could replace the light bulb.

320
00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:32,160
>> Even so, I would like to replace that as

321
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,760
it dies. I mean, my house is gone on 50

322
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:36,880
years old.

323
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,320
>> Just because, you know, kids play in the

324
00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,240
backyard. But again, I think it needs to

325
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,640
have a cut off time because, you know,

326
00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,680
kids do have they play in the backyard

327
00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:48,320
at night. They just do. You do things in

328
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:49,360
the backyard at night.

329
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,040
>> That's true. You have swim parties in

330
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:52,720
the backyard at night, trampoline

331
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,279
parties in the summer at night. There's

332
00:11:55,279 --> 00:11:56,800
a reason why people have that flood

333
00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,399
lighting that illuminates their

334
00:11:58,399 --> 00:12:00,079
backyard.

335
00:12:00,079 --> 00:12:02,959
And we are to the point now where when

336
00:12:02,959 --> 00:12:05,200
we first moved in, we were just like

337
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:06,720
struck with all the light that comes

338
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,639
from the street light, but I've gotten

339
00:12:08,639 --> 00:12:10,720
those blackout curtains. So, there are

340
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,320
things that do dim it within the house.

341
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,480
So, those are just my concerns and I

342
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:17,600
would like to see some of that changed

343
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,600
and accommodated for.

344
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,800
So, at the very least, Becky, should um

345
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,959
it be ch the exception be changed to

346
00:12:24,959 --> 00:12:27,440
October instead of November to January

347
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,920
if it were changed to October to

348
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:30,480
January?

349
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,320
>> I would be immenable for that. Usually

350
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,040
our our stuff goes up October 1st

351
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,800
>> and it's a big deal. October 1st to the

352
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,320
end of October and then it comes down

353
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,000
and then we have a big Christmas

354
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,639
display. Yeah.

355
00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:46,399
And again, I do the same thing. You

356
00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:48,959
know, we turn it off at like 10 10:30

357
00:12:48,959 --> 00:12:51,200
because we are

358
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,959
>> we are the chubby chase house.

359
00:12:52,959 --> 00:12:54,880
>> Well, I think I think [laughter] I think

360
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,040
you make a really good point that would

361
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,200
take care of the jelly light issue too

362
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,120
that I mean one thing if you have just

363
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,040
cuz one woman emailed saying she has

364
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:04,480
them as like safety because her house

365
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,320
didn't have any lights on it. So, she

366
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,320
has them as security lights. You know,

367
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,160
one in every fourth one is on. It's not

368
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,880
that bright or something. But but the

369
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,639
ones that are zipping around the colors

370
00:13:14,639 --> 00:13:17,120
all you know really bright would be but

371
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:18,800
I think I think a turnoff time would be

372
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,160
good and that's something you can easily

373
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:21,600
do on their permanent lighting right

374
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,760
because it's all by it's all controlled

375
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:25,360
by like an app I think.

376
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:26,639
>> Yeah they're scheduled is my

377
00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:27,200
understanding.

378
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:28,934
>> Yeah.

379
00:13:28,934 --> 00:13:30,240
[clears throat]

380
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,880
>> Okay. Um I did want to speak to Becky's

381
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,720
concern about flood lights. Um, there

382
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,720
are flood lights that are fully shielded

383
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,800
but still kind of point downward where

384
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,399
you can still see all of your yard. So,

385
00:13:42,399 --> 00:13:44,160
um, I can show you some specs for those

386
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:45,120
if you'd like.

387
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,720
>> Maybe I have them. I don't know. I don't

388
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:47,120
know.

389
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,200
>> But they do exist. So, there are flood

390
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,639
lights kind of like with the intent of

391
00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:54,399
illuminating a backyard that exists that

392
00:13:54,399 --> 00:13:56,959
would meet these changes.

393
00:13:56,959 --> 00:13:58,240
>> Flood lights is an interesting one

394
00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:59,760
because it I totally [clears throat]

395
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,839
agree with almost everything you said.

396
00:14:01,839 --> 00:14:03,120
It does go both ways though because

397
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:04,560
there are examples of flood lights that

398
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,720
are extraordinarily bright and like go

399
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,480
into people's windows and are quite

400
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,000
obnoxious when people are trying to

401
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,639
sleep. So

402
00:14:12,639 --> 00:14:14,320
shielding to me seems like a reasonable

403
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:15,760
compromise and then everyone would be

404
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,320
grandfathered. But I there's trade-offs

405
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,000
for sure. I don't that's this is of the

406
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,440
whole things in this ordinance. This is

407
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,360
probably one of the things I care less

408
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,399
about. So I'm super open to compromise

409
00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:28,000
or cutting something else for most

410
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,920
people.

411
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:31,760
There's an exemption for sports lights,

412
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:32,560
right?

413
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:33,279
>> Yep.

414
00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:35,199
>> And churches and

415
00:14:35,199 --> 00:14:38,560
>> churches, temples like buildings,

416
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:39,040
churches.

417
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:40,800
>> Did you scroll down to the exemption?

418
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,720
>> While you're up there, Patricio,

419
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,600
>> I've had a couple emails about our city,

420
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,120
but our city lights, but currently our

421
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,680
city lights are dark sky like correct

422
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,040
ones have been put in the last couple

423
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:53,920
years.

424
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,240
>> That's correct. So the item that we're

425
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:57,920
using at the moment is in compliance to

426
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,720
the dark sky which is the 3000k.

427
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,600
However, the the one that we inherited

428
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,959
or that they haven't gone bad still

429
00:15:06,959 --> 00:15:10,320
>> okay they're I mean they're yellow so

430
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,519
people still kind of like those

431
00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:15,040
>> but they are brighter.

432
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,279
>> They they just don't have the focal the

433
00:15:17,279 --> 00:15:20,959
focal point going down.

434
00:15:20,959 --> 00:15:23,279
>> And what about those new ones we have?

435
00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:26,079
Did you say they're changeable? Like

436
00:15:26,079 --> 00:15:27,760
they're recommended?

437
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,399
>> Yes. Um they are changeable. However, we

438
00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:32,880
do not change them because they already

439
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,680
in compliance with the dark sky and we

440
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,839
don't want to change it because there is

441
00:15:37,839 --> 00:15:39,839
also a different standard. There is the

442
00:15:39,839 --> 00:15:41,680
dark sky standards and there is also the

443
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,360
safety standard and we want to make sure

444
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,440
we find the balance between the two. The

445
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,120
moment that we reduce the amount of

446
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,759
watts, then we might create patterns

447
00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:51,759
where there is direct spots and then

448
00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:56,079
it's not safe. Okay, awesome. Thank you.

449
00:15:56,079 --> 00:15:58,160
>> I have another question for Patricia.

450
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,959
Patriceio, what is the current um

451
00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:04,160
lifespan of the um the older lights? In

452
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,160
other words, in how many years would we

453
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,399
expect that all the street lights would

454
00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:11,120
be changed out to the new

455
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,839
um dark sky complaint fixtures?

456
00:16:13,839 --> 00:16:15,120
>> We don't really know.

457
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,519
>> Okay.

458
00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:19,360
>> Yeah, it's hard to tell.

459
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,680
>> Okay.

460
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:22,079
Just

461
00:16:22,079 --> 00:16:24,079
>> I think that's and that was one of the

462
00:16:24,079 --> 00:16:27,519
as as as we did the research

463
00:16:27,519 --> 00:16:30,959
we are about 40%

464
00:16:30,959 --> 00:16:33,120
with the new lights we are in which are

465
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,440
in compliance you know with the new

466
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,160
standard um

467
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,639
but as they get done and this has been a

468
00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:42,800
period probably 10 years that we have

469
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,040
been doing this so we could guess but it

470
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,120
would be all like guess work it wouldn't

471
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:48,240
be

472
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,480
>> kind of like our pipes.

473
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,296
Yeah,

474
00:16:53,296 --> 00:16:55,430
[laughter]

475
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,040
» I would guess in the next hundred years

476
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,191
you're going to be good.

477
00:16:59,191 --> 00:17:01,269
[laughter]

478
00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:04,079
» Oh, go ahead, Travis.

479
00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:06,319
>> I just wanted some clarity. So, if I'm

480
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:08,319
understanding this correctly, then

481
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:10,799
somebody that were to put in jelly

482
00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:13,919
lights after we enact this would then

483
00:17:13,919 --> 00:17:16,880
not be able to have red, white, and blue

484
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:18,959
on Fourth of July. I I guess I just want

485
00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:21,280
to really understand the implications

486
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,240
for something like jelly lights.

487
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,319
Another thing I wanted to bring up is

488
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:28,720
there are holidays like Ramadan that

489
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,640
don't fall between November and January.

490
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,559
I think we might be creating potentially

491
00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:36,640
something problematic for ourselves if

492
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,799
we only accommodate the holidays that

493
00:17:38,799 --> 00:17:41,679
fall between November and January. So

494
00:17:41,679 --> 00:17:43,200
just some thoughts there. But but yeah,

495
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,600
clarity on the on the jelly lights would

496
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,559
be useful for me. Thanks.

497
00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:50,400
>> Um, based on how I interpret the code

498
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,280
and Brian can maybe speak to this. Um,

499
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,280
that this is what's currently in our

500
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,440
this is anything in black is no proposed

501
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:58,720
change. That's what's currently in our

502
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,440
code and jelly lights would not be

503
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,520
allowed to be illuminated during but if

504
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:04,799
they weren't during those months as far

505
00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:06,240
as I understand.

506
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,280
>> Okay.

507
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,200
>> So, I'm happy to propose a change

508
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,360
>> have one of you make a motion to do so.

509
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:16,080
The alternative approach would be what

510
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:17,919
councelor Bogdan suggestion of just

511
00:18:17,919 --> 00:18:20,720
having a sort of a bright light curfew

512
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,240
of sorts. That would be another

513
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,480
potential.

514
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,160
>> Yeah, I can definitely get behind that

515
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:31,360
for any time of year, frankly. Um, so I could be supportive of that. I guess I

516
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,360
just I like when I see, you know,

517
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:34,880
they're they're green for a Provo High

518
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,600
game or they're blue for a BYU game or,

519
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,400
you know, holiday Fourth of July. I I

520
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:41,840
don't have an issue with that

521
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,240
personally. I guess maybe if the others

522
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,840
do, I can I can appreciate that. But I I

523
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,440
personally would want people to be able

524
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:50,640
to have jelly lights throughout the

525
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:55,120
year. Um but maybe there is some sort of

526
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:56,320
I don't know if it's a brightness

527
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:57,919
standard or I I definitely can get

528
00:18:57,919 --> 00:18:59,600
behind the timing standard of it.

529
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:00,799
Thanks.

530
00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:02,640
>> Isn't there Aren't they also under the

531
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,280
eaves where they aren't like they're not

532
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:06,720
shooting up any

533
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,880
>> right? Was that considered shielded?

534
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,320
>> Um okay.

535
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,640
>> Yes. in the fixture, but it's just based

536
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,480
on where it's installed.

537
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:15,120
>> Yeah,

538
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:16,559
>> I I believe that that would be

539
00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:17,760
considered.

540
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,360
>> Okay, that makes sense then. Yeah,

541
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:21,280
you're right. Thanks, Katrice. That

542
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:22,559
makes sense.

543
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:24,640
>> I think the more I like the 10:00

544
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,160
though, a lot.

545
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,760
>> Yeah, the only thing that might not be

546
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,360
in compliance if jelly lights are around

547
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:30,799
year round is the color temperature at

548
00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:32,240
that point. If it's a bright green light

549
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:33,760
for St. Patrick's Day or something like

550
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,160
that. Um, but the shielding would would

551
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,880
be adequate with if it's within. If we

552
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:40,799
do the time, then that would help with

553
00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:41,440
all those

554
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:47,990
>> decorations, too.

555
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,000
» And you're suggesting then 10:00 10 p.m.

556
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,200
>> It just seems like that what we do with

557
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:54,799
the sound, it seems like it'd be good to

558
00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:55,840
keep them aligned.

559
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,360
>> Yeah. So maybe um exemption number one

560
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:03,520
could read holiday lighting period

561
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,080
and then with another sentence all

562
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,720
holiday lighting must be turned off at

563
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,320
10 p.m. Something like that

564
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,559
>> that doesn't follow that

565
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:14,320
>> outside of the Christmas schedule.

566
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,360
>> Well, outside of the dark sky.

567
00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:20,160
>> Yes. anything outside of dark sky comp

568
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,120
because like you said if you had

569
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:27,440
>> the warm brown orange yellow tone for

570
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:28,720
fall

571
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,640
>> if that's compliant that could be on all

572
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,400
night long but if it's not if it's not

573
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,039
if it's the blue tones the blues and the

574
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:39,679
greens does that get too complicated

575
00:20:39,679 --> 00:20:42,240
>> yeah

576
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,919
this is my personal opinion but I'd

577
00:20:43,919 --> 00:20:46,000
recommend if if that is the route that

578
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,520
you want to go that we allow holiday ing

579
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,200
during any month of the year just to

580
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,159
keep it simple.

581
00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:51,760
>> Yeah,

582
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,280
>> that's just my opinion as the intern

583
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,280
were thinking year round but have that

584
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:58,640
10:00 mortorium.

585
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,600
>> Okay. Um would anyone like to make a

586
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,559
motion to do that?

587
00:21:04,559 --> 00:21:05,840
>> It didn't look like he was making a

588
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,440
motion.

589
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,840
So, I'll make a motion that exemption

590
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,600
number one read uh holiday lighting uh

591
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,400
during any month of the year

592
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,510
and that [clears throat]

593
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:20,720
with with the time

594
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:21,600
>> 10:00

595
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,600
>> and with the and and then another

596
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,159
sentence all holiday item should be

597
00:21:26,159 --> 00:21:28,000
turned off by 10 p.m.

598
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:28,559
>> Okay.

599
00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:31,200
>> And that this continue on our agenda for

600
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:32,000
tonight.

601
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:32,320
>> Okay.

602
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:33,679
>> With that edit.

603
00:21:33,679 --> 00:21:35,919
>> Perfect.

604
00:21:35,919 --> 00:21:37,360
>> Yeah. All right. Let's second that.

605
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:39,520
>> Okay, we have a second with Craig. Any

606
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,760
discussion on the motion?

607
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,520
>> I'm curious if that resolves your

608
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,159
concerns, Becky.

609
00:21:46,159 --> 00:21:47,760
>> Like I said, my lights are usually up at

610
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,760
10 anyway.

611
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,240
I 10 10:30 if I'm

612
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,679
respectful.

613
00:21:55,679 --> 00:21:56,559
>> Yeah. What were you going to say,

614
00:21:56,559 --> 00:21:57,280
Rachel?

615
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,440
>> Yeah. So, it's it's interesting because

616
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,200
a lot of the holiday lighting may not be

617
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,240
in a violation of clear skies thing

618
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,000
anyway, but if people are doing flood

619
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,240
lights on features in their yard or

620
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,520
something like that, that would be. So,

621
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,039
it would make sense to put those on a

622
00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:14,320
timer. Um,

623
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:15,840
another thing that we're we're not

624
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,440
necessarily addressing, but I think is

625
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,919
kind of fun is the stadium has

626
00:22:21,919 --> 00:22:25,919
extraordinarily bright lights. And I

627
00:22:25,919 --> 00:22:28,080
regularly hike the Y at 5:30 in the

628
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,000
morning. Most of the year it's dark at

629
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,840
that point in time. And there have been

630
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,360
times when I'm hiking and suddenly

631
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:35,440
there's a brightness because they have

632
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,200
turned on the stadium lights.

633
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:37,760
>> Why?

634
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,520
>> I don't know why. They're like, I don't

635
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,440
know, maybe a practice or something, but

636
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,280
that light from the stadium like hits us

637
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,720
up there. And so there is really good

638
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,760
reason for these dark sky ordinances,

639
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,000
right? Like if we can direct that light

640
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:54,799
down.

641
00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:56,825
>> Oh, yeah. They're exempt. But it

642
00:22:56,825 --> 00:22:57,440
[laughter]

643
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,640
in general it it makes sense because we

644
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,679
have so much light pollution ambient

645
00:23:03,679 --> 00:23:06,240
light from the lights in our city that I

646
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,120
never need a headlight when I hike the Y

647
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:10,799
in full dark.

648
00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:12,960
>> There's just that much light.

649
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,039
>> And so if we can gradually cut that

650
00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:16,960
down, I think it would be really useful.

651
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:18,960
So I'm I'm really happy that we're we're

652
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,039
addressing this. Um I have one more

653
00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:24,159
question. What about you know security

654
00:23:24,159 --> 00:23:25,840
lights that are crazy bright? like if

655
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,760
motion detector type lights, what does

656
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:28,720
that fall in?

657
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,640
>> Um, I believe that is also mentioned in

658
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,720
the code. If you scroll down a bit,

659
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,630
Kevin,

660
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:39,200
» um,

661
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,240
>> and security lights shielded and still

662
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,159
brightly shine on the areas.

663
00:23:44,159 --> 00:23:46,640
>> Yeah. So, this is the section on

664
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,600
security lighting um

665
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,840
that has it's it's not in the exemption

666
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,760
section, but it kind of exempts itself

667
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,120
from some of the other standards.

668
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:56,400
>> We didn't even change any of that. Just

669
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,760
took some stuff out.

670
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:58,799
>> Yes.

671
00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:00,640
>> Because the the point isn't that you're

672
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,720
dimming that light that's in the area

673
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,120
that needs to be seen or filmed. It's

674
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:07,760
that you're stopping light from escaping

675
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,720
upwards.

676
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:09,039
>> Yeah.

677
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:11,679
>> And and outwards. So, having that more

678
00:24:11,679 --> 00:24:16,960
directed light is really useful. It's a more efficient use of your light.

679
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,600
>> Okay. Anyone anything else?

680
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:20,640
>> Right. Thanks, Britain.

681
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,440
>> Okay. Awesome. Thank you.

682
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:24,480
>> Oh, we need to vote on the

683
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,440
>> Oh, yeah. Sorry.

684
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,960
>> All right. Councelor Whipple,

685
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,400
>> yes. Councelor Bogdan,

686
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,000
>> yes. Councelor Whitlock,

687
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:30,400
>> yes.

688
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,240
>> Councelor McKay, yes. Councelor

689
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:32,960
Christensen,

690
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:33,200
>> yes.

691
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,320
>> And councelor Garrett,

692
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:34,640
>> yes.

693
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,240
>> And councelor Hoben,

694
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,520
>> yes.

695
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,400
>> All right. So, that passes 70.

696
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:41,919
All right. Next, we have a discussion

697
00:24:41,919 --> 00:24:43,840
regarding a request from Taylor Terrace

698
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,360
Homeowners Association for city

699
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,679
acceptance, infrastructure upgrades, and

700
00:24:47,679 --> 00:24:49,279
financial assistance for its private

701
00:24:49,279 --> 00:24:51,200
water system. This will be presented by

702
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,120
Lane Pierce, our water resources

703
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:56,240
engineer, and Mark Doyle from Taylor

704
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,750
Terrace HOA.

705
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,520
» We have Lane Pierce first.

706
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,640
>> Lane, thank you. Um, so I just have a

707
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,720
quick

708
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,159
slideshow that I'll go through. The

709
00:25:08,159 --> 00:25:09,679
council last time I was here two weeks

710
00:25:09,679 --> 00:25:12,799
ago asked a couple questions. So, the

711
00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:14,480
two questions, the slides that I'll go

712
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,120
through kind of answer the questions.

713
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:20,960
There we go. Um, this is the city code

714
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,279
we kind of went over last time. Let's

715
00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:27,279
see. Is this the is this the

716
00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:28,559
slide show I sent to you?

717
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:30,159
>> This is the slides that were submitted

718
00:25:30,159 --> 00:25:31,200
on topics.

719
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,320
>> Okay. Then I submitted the wrong ones to

720
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,559
be honest with you because what what we

721
00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:39,039
had was a bunch of examples because the

722
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:41,360
city asked two questions. They asked for

723
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,480
examples of other places that we did

724
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:44,880
this.

725
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,039
>> We did see that. Keep going through

726
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:50,159
Kevin. See if it's further down.

727
00:25:50,159 --> 00:25:51,760
>> Yeah, it's at the end.

728
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,080
>> I think this is last.

729
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,440
>> Yeah, this is last time.

730
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:56,880
>> All right. See, go back to on base and

731
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:57,760
find it Kevin.

732
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,279
>> Good. Thank you, council. So, it's there

733
00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:00,720
somewhere. You saw it.

734
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,679
>> We have seen it. Yeah, it's the request

735
00:26:03,679 --> 00:26:05,360
part two PDF.

736
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:09,200
>> Yeah.

737
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,640
>> But how? There were a bunch of them.

738
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:11,679
>> Yeah, there were a bunch of

739
00:26:11,679 --> 00:26:12,640
>> all of them or

740
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,240
>> No, there there I would say there's

741
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,919
dozens. There's probably We didn't

742
00:26:15,919 --> 00:26:18,000
count, but there's probably 30 40ish of

743
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,880
unique privately owned streets. And I I

744
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,080
have like five or six. And I'll go

745
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,600
through them quick. I'm not going to be

746
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,960
labor, but it'll just kind of give you a

747
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,320
flavor of what's out there of these

748
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,480
privately owned kind of Taylor Terrace

749
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,919
type slides.

750
00:26:31,919 --> 00:26:36,149
But that there are a bunch

751
00:26:36,159 --> 00:26:38,960
» is the one.

752
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,760
>> But maybe they're the largest included.

753
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,120
Maybe those are the largest.

754
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:45,120
>> Um some of one of them I'd say the

755
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:47,360
colony one's one of the larger ones. If

756
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:49,039
you saw that one just off nights where a

757
00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:50,559
bunch of BYU students live, you saw that

758
00:26:50,559 --> 00:26:52,640
in your packet. And then there's two of

759
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,480
them in there. Um the Grand Terrace one.

760
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,880
Yeah, this is the slideshow.

761
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,880
They they they keep coming to our

762
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,080
office. They want us to take over their system, too.

763
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:05,760
>> Okay. Thank you. So, here's the two

764
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,440
questions we kind of you asked, "What

765
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,679
did Provo City do for Quell Valley?" And

766
00:27:09,679 --> 00:27:11,279
then other examples of the private

767
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:13,760
lines. So, what we did for Quell Valley,

768
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,840
just a quick history, remember the

769
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,760
temple, [clears throat] the church

770
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,360
wanted to get rid of the street. They

771
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:23,279
paid us $150,000, $175,000 for it. We

772
00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:25,200
needed to buy property here to kind of

773
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,480
shore up our station and our make it

774
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,159
good square property lines. So we bought

775
00:27:30,159 --> 00:27:31,600
property back from the church for

776
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,240
$120,000 and then we had the excess of

777
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,000
$50,000 and we applied that to Quelley.

778
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,600
So we did give Quel Valley $50,000 but

779
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,919
part of that is we kind of had cash on

780
00:27:43,919 --> 00:27:45,760
hand you could say you know what I mean

781
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,360
instead of taking it out of the budget

782
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:49,760
but that's what we did for Quill Valley.

783
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,440
>> There's the resolution. Didn't the Quail

784
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,520
Valley One also give us access to some

785
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,600
fire hydrants that were private?

786
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,840
>> Yeah, we did take over their their

787
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,520
hydrants also. So, we took over they had

788
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,039
to do a bunch of upgrades, right?

789
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:07,200
>> Was considered a huge asset as far as

790
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,360
fire prevention and firefighting if

791
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:10,640
something happened in the foothill.

792
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,279
>> Yeah, you could say that we did take

793
00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:14,799
over their whole system. The fire

794
00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:16,880
heights were part of it.

795
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,480
Um

796
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,720
so then here's the examples of other um

797
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,919
privately owned utilities in in streets.

798
00:28:25,919 --> 00:28:27,360
So this is this temple right here, the

799
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:29,200
Rock Canyon Temple. This is just called

800
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,880
Cambridge Core. I highlight them all

801
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,559
yellow kind of work private what's not

802
00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:34,720
private. That's just an example. Three

803
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,799
fountains. These guys have come in also.

804
00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:38,480
They want us to take over their system.

805
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,840
This is this is uh University Canyon

806
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,480
Road and that's you know the yellow is

807
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,960
kind of where the water lines are. This

808
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,240
is Grand View Manor. Like I said,

809
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,159
they've come in to talk to us and want

810
00:28:50,159 --> 00:28:51,279
us to take over their system because

811
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:53,120
they have leaks and problems and such.

812
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,200
You know what I mean? Same same ideas.

813
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,840
This is the colony 9 east is right over

814
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,480
here. U students, you know, they have

815
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,200
leaks and just different examples. This

816
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,679
is one. This is the old Provo old Provo

817
00:29:05,679 --> 00:29:08,559
High School um track. just a couple

818
00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:10,000
businesses are on it and then the

819
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,840
departments are on this private line.

820
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,120
>> That's interesting. Why is that one

821
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,880
private? Like that's a weird mix.

822
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,039
>> Yeah, I I would say because a lot of

823
00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:18,799
these are private streets like that. You

824
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:20,399
know, these aren't citymained streets.

825
00:29:20,399 --> 00:29:22,640
So, a lot of times the private lines

826
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:23,840
follow the private streets.

827
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,440
>> So, is that whole thing owned by one

828
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:26,480
person then?

829
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,039
>> I don't know. This is and correct me if

830
00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:30,399
I'm wrong Gordon and Ryan, but this is

831
00:29:30,399 --> 00:29:32,399
owned by like businesses and then this

832
00:29:32,399 --> 00:29:34,000
is owned by like apartment complex. If

833
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,000
we turned on parcels, it is not one big

834
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,159
>> Oh, okay. There's not one big

835
00:29:38,159 --> 00:29:40,720
>> that's owner.

836
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,640
>> This is one I found just over by by

837
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,080
Center Street. This is a Center Street

838
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,919
exit,

839
00:29:45,919 --> 00:29:47,679
you know. And this this one's tricky. It

840
00:29:47,679 --> 00:29:49,520
goes across it looks like under the pool

841
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,880
and across the yards and stuff.

842
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,799
And then this one's behind Lake View

843
00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:57,760
Elementary. So part of it is to show

844
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,000
that, you know, maybe maybe we're not

845
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,120
setting a precedent today because

846
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:02,640
they're so unique. Each one seems to be

847
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,520
a little bit unique and a little bit

848
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,840
you know different than the the other

849
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,840
one. So those are just a few examples

850
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,360
and like you said I probably we probably

851
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,200
have 30 40 I didn't count how many we

852
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,760
have out there. This is what we proposed

853
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,480
right talking to the HOA marks here from

854
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,039
the HOA the HOA president. We think the

855
00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:22,799
best idea is to follow our standard get

856
00:30:22,799 --> 00:30:25,919
the water meters in the park strip and

857
00:30:25,919 --> 00:30:27,840
then and then they can take their

858
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,080
laterals to their homes in the city. We

859
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,440
we've been talking I've talked to Gordon

860
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,159
and Mark and the city's okay if you the

861
00:30:34,159 --> 00:30:36,399
council decides that we should perform

862
00:30:36,399 --> 00:30:41,600
the work from in our rideway from the

863
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,200
meter from the meter to the cans and

864
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,880
then the HOA would

865
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,440
take the cost of the can to the house

866
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,919
and we did I didn't get it in time cuz

867
00:30:55,919 --> 00:30:58,159
we had to do a quick turnaround. I did

868
00:30:58,159 --> 00:30:59,520
get a cost estimate and the cost

869
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,320
estimate was roughly for the city and we would do it with our team, our

870
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,320
crews. We wouldn't pay to do it right.

871
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:07,600
The cost estimate though from the

872
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,080
contractor was like 60,000 for us and

873
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,840
their portion was like 74 75ish,000.

874
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,679
So if you're looking at kind of

875
00:31:15,679 --> 00:31:17,919
percentage wise, what is that 6040 or

876
00:31:17,919 --> 00:31:21,360
something? 40 for us, 60 for them.

877
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,440
>> So would you be doing their work and

878
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:24,880
they pay you back or would they be

879
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,559
contract? That would all be them. Yeah,

880
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:28,000
they would contract themselves to do

881
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,840
this. Our city crews would come out.

882
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,760
They know how to set cans and they would

883
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,360
do all the labor. We'd have to buy

884
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,720
parts, but we would do all the labor

885
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,399
ourselves. Our city crews would do all

886
00:31:36,399 --> 00:31:38,080
the labor ourselves.

887
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:39,600
>> And are those things that you would do

888
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:47,120
are they used by anyone else? Are they are they used as the city or

889
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,720
through other

890
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,799
>> Yeah, like everyone uses them if that

891
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:52,399
like we all have cans and meters. Is

892
00:31:52,399 --> 00:31:54,000
that what you're asking, Patrice? All

893
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,840
they're parts that we do have, but we

894
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,600
still order a lot of them because we

895
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,919
have every house should have a other

896
00:31:59,919 --> 00:32:01,519
department have a can and a meter in

897
00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:03,120
your front yard and so that's the kind

898
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:03,600
is that

899
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,279
>> I'm sorry. No, I guess my question is is

900
00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:07,360
that totally private infrastructure like

901
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,519
no one else uses it but them or is it

902
00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:11,440
used in our whole system? Is it part of

903
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,240
a bigger system?

904
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,240
>> It we own to the can. So we would own

905
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:15,760
the infrastructure we're doing. So

906
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,679
>> every meter and so every meter in the

907
00:32:17,679 --> 00:32:20,000
city we own and the can. Yeah.

908
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:20,880
>> So it's public.

909
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,880
>> Can you guys have heard that?

910
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,600
>> Can that round thing if you open your

911
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,279
lid there's like it looks it's just an

912
00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:29,120
empty and your meter's in there. Looks

913
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,080
like a [clears throat] pipe stuck in the

914
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,519
ground. A pit. It's like a pit where you

915
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:32,880
can work on things. There's not dirt.

916
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,320
>> Has a metal.

917
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,519
>> Yeah.

918
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:38,480
>> Okay. So we would do

919
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:39,840
these red circles.

920
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,440
>> Yeah. We do to the red circles including

921
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,519
the red circles. And we would put in the

922
00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:44,159
meters.

923
00:32:44,159 --> 00:32:44,480
>> Yes.

924
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,320
>> Which is great because then they're

925
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,320
done, right? And then they would they

926
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,320
would have be responsible here.

927
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,200
>> Yep. To the house

928
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:51,919
>> to all the

929
00:32:51,919 --> 00:32:53,840
>> So they'd have to fix the sidewalk,

930
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:54,799
right? Because they're going to tear up

931
00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:59,440
the sidewalk. They'd have to fix all the asphalt and, you know, they have to

932
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:00,799
connect to the houses, dig up the yard

933
00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:02,080
if they have to, wherever it connects,

934
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,760
they would have to do all that.

935
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,159
>> From the city's perspective,

936
00:33:08,159 --> 00:33:09,760
does this help you guys? Is this a

937
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,360
benefit to have them set up

938
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:12,720
traditionally as we do them?

939
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,240
>> Yeah, it is a benefit to have everything

940
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,240
traditional. It's cuz if it break if it

941
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,720
happens again, just like in your own

942
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,640
personal house, if it breaks here, we

943
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,399
guarantee it's them. They have to fix

944
00:33:22,399 --> 00:33:25,200
it. No, our code says we own to the can,

945
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,240
right? So, it's it's a benefit, Gordon.

946
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,000
>> And the other part of that is if there's

947
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,600
a leak, we're charging them for the

948
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,200
water of that plate because right now we

949
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,000
have water going into the system that no

950
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,039
one's paying for.

951
00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:39,600
>> Yeah. because their meters are up here

952
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,600
and the leaks here, right? Are here then

953
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,600
>> were we able to get us any estimate on

954
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,519
what how much water that is like even

955
00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:49,039
order magnitude ballpark?

956
00:33:49,039 --> 00:33:50,159
>> We haven't looked at that.

957
00:33:50,159 --> 00:33:52,000
>> Yeah, I haven't looked at it to be

958
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,039
honest with you.

959
00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:55,360
>> Is it like substantial or minuscule?

960
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,159
That's just kind of

961
00:33:58,159 --> 00:33:59,600
>> Is it like someone's leaving their hose

962
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:00,880
on all day or

963
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,360
>> It's We

964
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,120
flashes on the toilet. We don't want to

965
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,039
lose any water through leaks and we have

966
00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:10,320
a ton of leaks all over the city, but in

967
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,480
the scope of how much water we produce,

968
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,280
how much we sell, it's not a lot, but

969
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,760
the issue is not that just we have

970
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,359
leaks. It's probably going to create

971
00:34:19,359 --> 00:34:21,119
some damage and some problems. We just

972
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:24,480
don't like water not going where we want

973
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,320
it to go. So, there's a lot of issues

974
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,159
with the water. Is it time

975
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:32,399
these guys dealing hundreds of millions

976
00:34:32,399 --> 00:34:34,560
of gallons? So, no.

977
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,159
Not when you compare it to that.

978
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,480
>> It's awkward for punishment.

979
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,399
>> Yeah, that that's all I have. I can stay

980
00:34:42,399 --> 00:34:43,599
up here and answer questions, but that's

981
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:44,320
all I have.

982
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:45,599
>> Okay, we have a question from Gary

983
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:46,800
Garrett.

984
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,119
>> Yes. Link, you said that um so far two

985
00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:53,599
other developments, Grand View Manor and

986
00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:55,119
Three Fountains, have approached you

987
00:34:55,119 --> 00:34:57,119
about possibly taking over their water

988
00:34:57,119 --> 00:34:57,440
system.

989
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,800
>> They have approached us. They they

990
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,480
approached not me, but my colleague

991
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,240
Shane, but yeah. So based on what you've

992
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:05,520
proposed for this terrace, would that be

993
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,520
a sustainable approach for these other

994
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:08,960
developments?

995
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:09,280
>> Well,

996
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,119
>> in terms of cost and budgeting,

997
00:35:11,119 --> 00:35:14,079
>> and Ryan's here, he he knows maybe

998
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:15,599
better, but I'll I'll speak. Ryan,

999
00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:19,200
correct me if I'm wrong, but what

1000
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,560
we don't know, we haven't discussed

1001
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,160
taking it over too much, but what would

1002
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,320
probably happen is we might end up

1003
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,760
taking this main line for Grand View

1004
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,520
Terrace. I I don't know, Ryan. What's

1005
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:30,400
your

1006
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,839
>> In in this case, the main roadway

1007
00:35:33,839 --> 00:35:36,240
through this area is platted as a public

1008
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:36,800
street.

1009
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:37,200
>> Okay.

1010
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,440
>> So, most likely we'll take over the

1011
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,119
water line and the sewer line in the

1012
00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:43,599
public street as a public utility.

1013
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:44,000
>> Okay.

1014
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,599
>> And then they would be responsible for

1015
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:48,000
everything behind the meters like we we

1016
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,960
typically do in in all cases.

1017
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,880
>> And on three fountains, I don't know.

1018
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,119
Same idea kind of R. I don't know what

1019
00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:57,520
we do. I don't think we thought about it

1020
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,200
much or

1021
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:00,640
>> Yeah, we haven't looked into this one

1022
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,720
quite as much as we had view.

1023
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:04,640
>> It's a good question. But

1024
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:05,920
>> and [clears throat] then Lane, did I

1025
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,839
also read that um

1026
00:36:09,839 --> 00:36:12,560
with the current code, these kinds of

1027
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,640
private water systems are no longer

1028
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,839
allowed in developments or are these

1029
00:36:17,839 --> 00:36:19,359
perpetuating?

1030
00:36:19,359 --> 00:36:22,560
>> We don't allow. We do. Sometimes they

1031
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,000
propose something like this and we have

1032
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,800
to get an agreement a what is it called?

1033
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,119
Utility agreement private utility

1034
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:30,320
agreement

1035
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,240
>> and then we use that going forward and

1036
00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:36,480
say hey here's our agreement you agreed

1037
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,160
to this that if it breaks or something

1038
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,160
we're not helping you here. So we don't like it but when it comes push

1039
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,079
comes to and helps someone out to

1040
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:45,599
develop we get a private utility

1041
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:47,520
agreement.

1042
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,040
>> Is Buckley Draw proposed to be private?

1043
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:52,640
I don't think so. No,

1044
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,960
>> I don't believe so. So, I I think I

1045
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,760
think the other thing you see is and I

1046
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,200
could be wrong, but I haven't seen any

1047
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,079
of these come through that are private

1048
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:04,640
except they're one property owner. So,

1049
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,079
in other words, we see it for multif

1050
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:08,640
family where it's only one owner.

1051
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:09,280
>> Sure.

1052
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,920
>> Like apartments. I I haven't really seen

1053
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,760
it in the town homes or any of the

1054
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:14,800
others. Yeah.

1055
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,240
>> So, I haven't seen [clears throat]

1056
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:17,920
>> more like a flag lot. A home.

1057
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:18,480
>> Yeah. Flag lot.

1058
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,320
>> Yeah. not have lots yet and they have a

1059
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,520
pretty good system. So, so the kind of

1060
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,599
things you're seeing here are not

1061
00:37:25,599 --> 00:37:27,680
getting approved and no one's doing this

1062
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,119
kind of stuff.

1063
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:31,520
>> So, we are not perpetuating this

1064
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,359
problem. I haven't seen anything that

1065
00:37:35,359 --> 00:37:37,440
council

1066
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,680
>> back on the ground view one the others

1067
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,680
if we take it over they're going to have

1068
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,640
to be responsible for getting everything

1069
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,720
up to code before we take it over.

1070
00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:47,359
Correct. Yeah,

1071
00:37:47,359 --> 00:37:49,440
>> that's what we propose, right? Just like

1072
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,040
Quill Valley. I'm looking at Gordon and

1073
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,280
Ryan, but I believe that's what we would

1074
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,920
>> propose. Correct, Ryan and Gordon.

1075
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,680
>> That's what we would that's what we'd

1076
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,880
like to see. Um I I don't know that

1077
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,440
we're going to dig up every water man um

1078
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,480
and and verify. We may do spot checks.

1079
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:07,839
We would check the meters, fire

1080
00:38:07,839 --> 00:38:09,839
hydrants, things like that before we

1081
00:38:09,839 --> 00:38:11,520
take them home. But we're not going to

1082
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,320
dig up all the buried infrastructure.

1083
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:15,680
>> But that's good precedent we'd like to

1084
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,200
set, right? to take if we take something

1085
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,119
over needs to be to our standard.

1086
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:20,480
>> Well, I thought that was what was in

1087
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,400
code, but I was just concerned that the

1088
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,400
city I mean we have enough of our own

1089
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,040
pipe that we have to replace that we

1090
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,599
own. We all know that we we're

1091
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:30,960
responsible for that. They're

1092
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,720
responsible for theirs. So, if we take

1093
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:34,880
theirs over, they need to make sure that

1094
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,880
it's up to par before we take it over.

1095
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:37,200
Right.

1096
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,079
>> That's correct.

1097
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:39,599
>> Because we're not taking over any pipe

1098
00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:41,359
with this one we're looking at. Correct.

1099
00:38:41,359 --> 00:38:43,920
>> No, we're not. Yeah. We're actually

1100
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,720
eliminating a problem pipe in the system

1101
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:48,720
by by doing what we're recommending,

1102
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:52,160
putting the meters out on the

1103
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,640
>> All right. Do we want to do a motion to

1104
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,722
move it? Go ahead, Jeff. Um my

1105
00:38:57,722 --> 00:38:58,320
[clears throat]

1106
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,400
I guess my one question one of my

1107
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,040
upshots from the meeting last time was

1108
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,520
there's 20 to 30

1109
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:10,000
similarly situated um situations

1110
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,000
30 to 40 and um

1111
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,520
we've we've seen a couple here which I

1112
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,280
think is helpful. One of the things that

1113
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,599
I felt like was one of the primary

1114
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:21,520
things that we were interested in was

1115
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,119
like what are the guiding principles or

1116
00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:26,480
a framework for how to handle these and

1117
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,000
I'm kind of missing that still a little

1118
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,440
bit like it seems like what I'm hearing

1119
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,240
is sort of one-off basis or maybe there

1120
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:33,599
is a guiding principle of like we'll

1121
00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:36,640
just take it to do the minimum we can to

1122
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,880
take to connect it to the mainway just

1123
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,480
like that that sort of articulation I

1124
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,079
think would be helpful so that we're

1125
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:43,680
seeing this as like a broader policy

1126
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,440
discussion rather than like a one-off

1127
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:46,560
you know we have to deal with this

1128
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,400
situation. And then I just want to flag

1129
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,400
that like, you know, if there's 30 to 40

1130
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,440
and $100,000 each, you know, we're

1131
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,560
talking3 to4 million of kind of like

1132
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,400
liability on precedents we're setting

1133
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,920
and so just want to make sure we're

1134
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:01,839
comfortable with that.

1135
00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:02,560
>> Okay.

1136
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:03,920
>> So, I don't know. Is there is there any

1137
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,440
kind of like could you articulate like a

1138
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:06,160
guy?

1139
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,079
>> I can take I can take a shot. I would

1140
00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:11,280
say like like council person um Bogdan

1141
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,079
said that you know if it's something

1142
00:40:14,079 --> 00:40:15,440
like this that they bring it up to our

1143
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,280
standard like we did with Quail Valley

1144
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,359
type thing and then um

1145
00:40:21,359 --> 00:40:23,200
try to do the work that the work that

1146
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,520
we're doing keep it within our rideways

1147
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,720
and stuff. I do think there'll still be

1148
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:31,440
>> unique situations along the way also I

1149
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,599
think it'll be difficult to set

1150
00:40:33,599 --> 00:40:35,520
>> parameters for everything but that's

1151
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:36,800
what I'd say the initial parameters

1152
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,640
would be. And I don't if Gordon or Ryan

1153
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,520
want to weigh in on anything. Mark the

1154
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,040
HOA president wants to say something. Is

1155
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,400
that okay? I'm not in charge.

1156
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,800
>> I think isn't the ordinance like from

1157
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,720
the past couple years that Quail Valley

1158
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:53,200
operated under, isn't that the framework

1159
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,680
how these things are considered and and

1160
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:56,800
addressed?

1161
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,240
>> Yeah. Which is bring them up to

1162
00:40:58,240 --> 00:40:59,359
standard, right?

1163
00:40:59,359 --> 00:41:03,349
>> Yeah. So

1164
00:41:03,359 --> 00:41:05,040
» I don't know I don't know if that

1165
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,040
answers all I would have

1166
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,280
>> I mean I think the the caveat there is

1167
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,040
it's bring them up to standard unless

1168
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,880
you ask the c council to appropriate

1169
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,119
money which this

1170
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:17,280
>> which is what's happening here and

1171
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,040
you're trying to say what is going to

1172
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,160
what are the principles that are going

1173
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,760
to guide the principal in answering that

1174
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:22,800
question every time.

1175
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,319
>> That's exactly what I and I felt like we

1176
00:41:24,319 --> 00:41:25,280
asked for last time.

1177
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:26,400
>> Yeah.

1178
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:27,920
>> Um

1179
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,319
yeah because I again I know you're new

1180
00:41:30,319 --> 00:41:31,520
to the situation. I don't want to be

1181
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:32,800
really tough here, but I'm just thinking

1182
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,200
like,

1183
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,359
so I I'm part of an HOA board and you

1184
00:41:37,359 --> 00:41:38,880
know, we collect our fees and we have a

1185
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,839
reserve fund and you know, I think we

1186
00:41:41,839 --> 00:41:43,839
have a pretty good HOA board and like I

1187
00:41:43,839 --> 00:41:45,839
think we are very cognizant of the

1188
00:41:45,839 --> 00:41:47,839
various liabilities we take on. But the

1189
00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:49,280
second order effect here is it's like,

1190
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:50,720
hey, you know, you underfund your

1191
00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:52,079
situation for a long time and then you

1192
00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:55,040
come to a city for an appropriation. I'm

1193
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:55,920
not saying that's what you're doing. I

1194
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:56,240
know you're

1195
00:41:56,240 --> 00:41:58,240
>> Well, it's not actually. Yeah.

1196
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:00,000
>> Yeah.

1197
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,280
We're we're not Yeah, we're not doing

1198
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,119
what you just described. [snorts]

1199
00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:04,800
>> Okay.

1200
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,520
>> So So I do I do think you bring up some

1201
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,920
good points because there's 30 or 40 of

1202
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,599
these or maybe even more. Um they're all

1203
00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:16,079
hitting an age

1204
00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:17,599
where we're starting to see that they

1205
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:21,200
want to be taken over. Um and I think

1206
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:22,800
some of them are shocked to find out

1207
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,240
that they own these systems. And so I'm

1208
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,240
not saying good or bad or justifying or

1209
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:31,520
not justifying, but I do think the

1210
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,839
council put that ordinance into place

1211
00:42:33,839 --> 00:42:36,079
about four years ago.

1212
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:38,480
We're trying to think about how that

1213
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,400
applies, not just for the city taking

1214
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,359
them in, but also what the potential

1215
00:42:45,359 --> 00:42:47,839
cost would be in doing this. And and

1216
00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:49,680
it's it's all over the place because

1217
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:54,720
we've seen some of these. We have a a a

1218
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:57,280
mobile home park that is complete

1219
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,480
disaster and it would be more than a

1220
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,400
million dollars to fix just that place

1221
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,599
and it's continue leaking and we have

1222
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:07,760
others that are just

1223
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,960
that we can continue the path we're

1224
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,040
doing or we can look for a solution. The

1225
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:14,800
path may be the right what we're doing

1226
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,960
maybe the right thing

1227
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,040
um if it goes to the meter first then

1228
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,680
we're probably okay. But those are some

1229
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,400
of the things that we're I'm not saying

1230
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:25,599
good or bad. It's

1231
00:43:25,599 --> 00:43:26,480
>> not here.

1232
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,040
>> So So these are so unique and each one

1233
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,079
of these are so different that we we try

1234
00:43:32,079 --> 00:43:34,400
to look at a policy. Oh man, we don't

1235
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:35,680
want to do that yet. And so we're just

1236
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,280
waiting to see who comes in next and

1237
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,319
we'll try to stay reasonable and not

1238
00:43:40,319 --> 00:43:42,000
break their bank as we deal with these

1239
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,920
bits. People are going to start

1240
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,280
demanding to do something. I don't know

1241
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,000
what the right call is yet. We did this

1242
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,400
would be number two. I suspect you'll

1243
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,079
see these

1244
00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:53,359
every other year popping in

1245
00:43:53,359 --> 00:43:54,400
>> because because you're in and you're

1246
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,640
feeling there's like a cohort of time

1247
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,079
where this was a really common way of

1248
00:43:58,079 --> 00:43:58,720
doing things.

1249
00:43:58,720 --> 00:43:59,040
>> Yeah.

1250
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,119
>> And that cohort is aging to the place

1251
00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:02,319
where this is going to be a common

1252
00:44:02,319 --> 00:44:03,440
problem.

1253
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,040
>> Yeah.

1254
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,599
>> So you guys will be able to make some

1255
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:09,440
really

1256
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,200
important decisions that will be very

1257
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,030
clever.

1258
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,359
» Um I just wanted to clarify. We're just

1259
00:44:17,359 --> 00:44:19,359
and this came up last time too. We're

1260
00:44:19,359 --> 00:44:22,079
not suggesting a city should cover a

1261
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:25,359
penny of the normal cost that any of us

1262
00:44:25,359 --> 00:44:26,560
you I think you're on the phone last

1263
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,880
time mentioned your sewer line like each

1264
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,599
of us. Yeah. No fun. But um we're just

1265
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:36,160
we're saying we the homeowners should

1266
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,000
bear the cost like any of us would of a

1267
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,240
water line from your house to the city

1268
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:43,200
meter. But because of legacy

1269
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,280
infrastructure problems from 50 years

1270
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,839
ago that none of us were agreeing to

1271
00:44:47,839 --> 00:44:51,920
>> the city well I can't say wants to the

1272
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,640
city could take the portion of bringing

1273
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,040
the meters up to code.

1274
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,640
So I just want to make sure that that's

1275
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,040
clear. We're not asking the city to

1276
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:02,880
cover any costs that any of us normally

1277
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,720
have to run a repair water line out to

1278
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:06,319
the street. So

1279
00:45:06,319 --> 00:45:09,750
>> thank you.

1280
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,880
» Okay. Any other discussion? Councelor

1281
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:13,520
Whipple.

1282
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,520
>> Yeah. So, it sounds like for some of

1283
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,720
these, if the plan would be to take over

1284
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:20,720
those private utilities as a public one,

1285
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:22,560
it looks like it's going along a roadway

1286
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,640
and everything, we're not crossing

1287
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,000
through a big HOA common area as we are

1288
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,040
in this particular instance. So, just

1289
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:32,640
the geography of these different

1290
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,400
projects means they're situated

1291
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,480
differently. Um, so I think some sort of

1292
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,280
a a policy would need to take that into

1293
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,240
account. Like how easy is it to shift it

1294
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:46,800
over to be a public system? How much of

1295
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,960
this um pipe needs to go through what

1296
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,839
would still be HOA or common space? Is

1297
00:45:53,839 --> 00:45:57,280
that help define the the difference here

1298
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,440
a little more?

1299
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,400
I still don't know what the answer is.

1300
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,079
>> Are private, so it's still all private.

1301
00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:04,400
>> Yeah.

1302
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,560
I I I mean I how I'm seeing the

1303
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,880
decision before us today, again, people

1304
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,560
could see it differently, is not

1305
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,800
>> should we spend $100,000 in this

1306
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,079
particular place. It's should we commit

1307
00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:16,560
to doing $3 million of infrastructure

1308
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,440
work for the city for everyone?

1309
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:20,640
>> And because I think that's really

1310
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:21,680
because I don't think we could then we

1311
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,119
could say yes to one and say no to the

1312
00:46:23,119 --> 00:46:24,319
next

1313
00:46:24,319 --> 00:46:26,400
>> and and is that benefit for the city? Is

1314
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,920
that I think that's the decision.

1315
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,280
>> Yeah. And they I think they are each

1316
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:31,839
individual.

1317
00:46:31,839 --> 00:46:33,839
>> Yeah. And they've suggested that the

1318
00:46:33,839 --> 00:46:35,599
only reason people would ask us to take

1319
00:46:35,599 --> 00:46:37,839
it over is because they are experiencing

1320
00:46:37,839 --> 00:46:39,119
some sort of failure.

1321
00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:40,640
>> Yeah. And then I think there's

1322
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,319
externalities to that failure. I wish we

1323
00:46:42,319 --> 00:46:43,520
could quantify those a little better,

1324
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,920
but there clearly are consequences and

1325
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:46,640
risks

1326
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:46,880
>> Yeah.

1327
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,359
>> of leaking water underground.

1328
00:46:49,359 --> 00:46:50,880
>> Yeah.

1329
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,560
And do we want to help pay to address

1330
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,280
the failures of their system? And in

1331
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:58,960
this one, we've got kind of cost sharing

1332
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,920
thing. That does make sense more or less

1333
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,280
in this case. But is that the that what

1334
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,680
we want to always have to do?

1335
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,880
>> Yeah. Well, a sinkhole. I mean, if that

1336
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:12,640
say it's a sinkhole, we definitely don't

1337
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:13,440
want that.

1338
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,119
>> Exactly. If that's what I was trying to

1339
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:16,640
get at because like it's a very obvious

1340
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,960
decision if there's, you know, that kind

1341
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:19,760
of risk,

1342
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,839
>> right? And the sinkhole occurring on the

1343
00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:23,359
HOA property is different than a

1344
00:47:23,359 --> 00:47:25,520
sinkhole occurring on the safe street.

1345
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,480
>> Yeah. Yeah. And if we take over a

1346
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,440
ill-maintained system and we have

1347
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:32,960
ownership of it and then all of a sudden

1348
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,400
there's a sinkhole because it's been

1349
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,720
leaking for years.

1350
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:38,560
>> I don't want that liability. I think

1351
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,119
that liability needs to be where Yeah.

1352
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:42,079
within HOA.

1353
00:47:42,079 --> 00:47:44,160
>> Well, and water moves too. So even if

1354
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,240
the leak is within the private property,

1355
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:47,920
that doesn't necessarily mean that's

1356
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,400
where the damage is going to occur,

1357
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,599
which is the fun part of it.

1358
00:47:53,599 --> 00:47:55,520
All

1359
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:56,800
right. Is this going to come up for a

1360
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,430
vote?

1361
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:01,920
» Why?

1362
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,680
>> Well, I think only if the council makes

1363
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,599
a motion to move it forward.

1364
00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:09,040
>> Move it forward to a council meeting.

1365
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:10,079
This would have to come to a council

1366
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:11,680
meeting or it can be resolved here.

1367
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,359
>> So, so let me ask you if we're using our

1368
00:48:13,359 --> 00:48:19,030
forces and it's not allocating funds.

1369
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,000
» Oh, how exactly.

1370
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,920
>> I mean, I'm talking to to Brian right

1371
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,040
now.

1372
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,839
I'm having a sidebar. [laughter]

1373
00:48:25,839 --> 00:48:27,200
Not that I don't want to come back next

1374
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:28,720
week, next time it should come, but I'm

1375
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:31,040
just seeing

1376
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,920
what if this is staff or if this is

1377
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,680
generally speaking, the way the code is

1378
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,680
written is that the if money needs to be

1379
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,839
appropriated in order for the

1380
00:48:45,839 --> 00:48:49,119
property to be brought up to

1381
00:48:49,119 --> 00:48:52,160
uh to code, then they have to come to

1382
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:53,440
council for the appropriation. If

1383
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,160
there's no appropriation needed,

1384
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,720
then it probably is not at that point a

1385
00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:02,230
count's decision.

1386
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:04,960
» So, so right now, you know, we we got

1387
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:06,559
the price, so you kind of get a relative

1388
00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:09,440
idea of what

1389
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:10,160
manpower, [clears throat]

1390
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,240
labor, and funding could be tribute to

1391
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:16,000
it. Um, but we could do this with our

1392
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,760
own We're right now intending to do this

1393
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,280
with our own forces. So, I'm not I'm

1394
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:22,960
just suggesting maybe we push something

1395
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,640
off your agenda in two weeks, but I'm

1396
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,480
not that that was Brian's suggestion.

1397
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,079
Follow the city attorneys.

1398
00:49:30,079 --> 00:49:32,480
>> I would second that. Would you third it?

1399
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:33,200
>> Okay.

1400
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:34,640
>> I mean, I to me there's a difference

1401
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,359
between, you know, uh using existing

1402
00:49:37,359 --> 00:49:39,359
capacity that are existing full-time

1403
00:49:39,359 --> 00:49:41,359
costs versus an additional appropriation

1404
00:49:41,359 --> 00:49:43,359
through contractor. But I don't want

1405
00:49:43,359 --> 00:49:45,839
this be done that you're not aware of it

1406
00:49:45,839 --> 00:49:47,520
because like this is going to come back

1407
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,359
multiple times and we won't always have

1408
00:49:49,359 --> 00:49:51,040
the option to use our own forces because

1409
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,520
the projects will be large.

1410
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,520
>> And so

1411
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,760
uh we you know from our standpoint we

1412
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,040
want to have the well-run seed that

1413
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:00,400
doesn't have a lot of leaks whether it's

1414
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,520
private side or public side or anything

1415
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,520
that's we take it all pretty personally.

1416
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,920
So anyway that's so we we probably don't

1417
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:09,839
need to come back. We'll probably move

1418
00:50:09,839 --> 00:50:12,160
forward if everybody's kind of nodding

1419
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:13,280
that way. I don't know if it needs to be

1420
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,440
a vote. I'll let

1421
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,599
>> Ryan, do we have some kind of a thing

1422
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:20,000
that releases releases us of any

1423
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,720
liability for any damage that was done

1424
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:27,359
like if there's a sinkhole that comes up

1425
00:50:27,359 --> 00:50:28,319
before we took it over?

1426
00:50:28,319 --> 00:50:29,839
>> Well, I mean, we did that last time with

1427
00:50:29,839 --> 00:50:31,440
Quail Valley and I would say that we do

1428
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,720
need to do it again. Now, that part of

1429
00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:38,160
in addition to the administrative review

1430
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,480
by public works and development services

1431
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,200
and everybody else of what it takes,

1432
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:44,880
there is an agreement that needs to be

1433
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,040
signed in order to actually take

1434
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,760
ownership of the private property. And

1435
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,480
that agreement is going to include

1436
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,119
identification and whole harmless

1437
00:50:55,119 --> 00:50:55,599
provisions.

1438
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:57,280
>> But we're not technically taking over

1439
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,240
anything, right? Not anymore. Yeah.

1440
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:02,160
>> Uh,

1441
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,160
>> we're just we're doing it standard of

1442
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:05,359
what we do in everything now. They're

1443
00:51:05,359 --> 00:51:06,800
keeping it all.

1444
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,680
>> Yeah, that's true. So, but I think that

1445
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,559
I think there is still an issue of that

1446
00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:14,319
Gordon and I probably need to talk about

1447
00:51:14,319 --> 00:51:19,599
afterwards online. If we are doing work

1448
00:51:19,599 --> 00:51:22,400
in exchange for something, uh, if we're

1449
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:23,920
doing work that we wouldn't just

1450
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,640
normally schedule and do, I think we

1451
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,040
need to think through

1452
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,800
um, how do we document that?

1453
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,319
So, I don't think that's terribly

1454
00:51:34,319 --> 00:51:35,920
complicated. I think it's basically

1455
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:37,760
>> and it wouldn't involve the spine.

1456
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,400
>> No, no.

1457
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,319
I mean, but I think it's a good question

1458
00:51:42,319 --> 00:51:43,760
to raise here because I think really

1459
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,680
what it amounts to is Gordon, you and I

1460
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,680
need to talk before you send out the

1461
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:48,640
we'll sit down and talk

1462
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,960
>> the trench diggers. I guess um my

1463
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,920
question for you, Brian, is like totally

1464
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:57,839
if this is 100% administrative side,

1465
00:51:57,839 --> 00:51:59,760
doesn't require an appropriation, that's

1466
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,680
how our system of government works. I

1467
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:06,960
don't think we need to do anything. But is it helpful in case there is some

1468
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:08,640
costs above and beyond that line like

1469
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,680
for us to have an item and vote on it?

1470
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,559
>> Well, I mean I think that as I view it,

1471
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:17,040
I think that is up to public works in

1472
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:18,720
the sense that if [snorts] they're going

1473
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:21,040
to ask you for money, that money is

1474
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:22,800
going to come from outside of the budget

1475
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:27,839
because they're not supposed to be under the way that chapter is written

1476
00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:31,440
right now. They're not supposed to be um

1477
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,200
>> more than 50,000.

1478
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,280
>> Well, again, the complication here is

1479
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:36,880
they're not actually taking ownership of

1480
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:38,400
something. They're not supposed to be

1481
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,960
spending money out of their budget in

1482
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,520
order to take ownership of something

1483
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,280
without coming and asking you for that

1484
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,040
money and you voting on an

1485
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,920
appropriation. So, I would say it sounds

1486
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:51,280
like they have a plan where they don't

1487
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:52,960
need to do that. If at any point that

1488
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,160
changes, they need to schedule a hearing

1489
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,000
in an evening meeting for the

1490
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,680
appropriation of whatever money they

1491
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:00,640
want.

1492
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:01,839
>> Does that answer your question?

1493
00:53:01,839 --> 00:53:02,480
>> Yeah, it does.

1494
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:03,920
>> I would want to see the new term.

1495
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,119
>> And can't they ask Can't they not

1496
00:53:07,119 --> 00:53:09,440
shuffle around more than 50,000 or

1497
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,200
something without

1498
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,000
>> there? Well, yeah, there's a $50,000

1499
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,160
limit in the budget

1500
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:20,079
uh resolution about how they do uh CIP

1501
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:21,920
things. I don't remember now exactly

1502
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,599
what it says, but that but that is in

1503
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:26,880
the budget ordinance about how they make

1504
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,079
changes to the CIP plan. Uh which again

1505
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:31,200
that'd have to come to you if they were

1506
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:32,960
going to make changes to the CIP plan.

1507
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:33,920
>> All right. So you guys will just take

1508
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,480
this offline and we'll

1509
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:38,079
>> but this has still been useful for us to

1510
00:53:38,079 --> 00:53:40,000
have a heads up about an issue that's in

1511
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,200
our city. So not wasted time at all.

1512
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,440
>> Yeah. And you know, and if the council

1513
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,599
has any concerns about I guess to lay

1514
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:49,680
out your the future, if you have

1515
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,040
concerns about how this one's being

1516
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,119
handled, we could always change the

1517
00:53:53,119 --> 00:53:56,240
ordinance that governs the process.

1518
00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:59,440
>> Okay. Well, thank you.

1519
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,480
>> Thanks, Lane.

1520
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,480
>> All righty. Number three, a discussion

1521
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:05,839
regarding the best for amphitheater

1522
00:54:05,839 --> 00:54:07,760
project development agreement. This

1523
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:13,200
presented to us by Tanner Siguchi. Is it you, Brian, do both? Okay, we're

1524
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,520
gonna hear from Brian Jones attorney.

1525
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,359
>> Tanner told me he was ready to step in

1526
00:54:17,359 --> 00:54:19,317
if I needed to run to the restroom, but

1527
00:54:19,317 --> 00:54:19,680
[laughter]

1528
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,920
>> in your 90 minutes,

1529
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:26,069
>> but I figured I would.

1530
00:54:26,079 --> 00:54:27,839
» All right. Do you have the slideshow

1531
00:54:27,839 --> 00:54:35,270
that I sent to Kevin?

1532
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,680
» Okay. So, I sent Kevin a slideshow a few

1533
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:39,359
minutes ago. It's mostly just the

1534
00:54:39,359 --> 00:54:41,440
agreement split into slides which makes

1535
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,200
it easier to read than trying to read

1536
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,559
the PDF of the agreement. Uh so we'll

1537
00:54:46,559 --> 00:54:49,440
bring that up. So uh

1538
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,480
>> everybody buckled up

1539
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,640
ready for 90 minutes of development

1540
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,440
agreement. Hopefully I'm hoping it'll be

1541
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:58,480
faster than that but it's going to

1542
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:03,280
depend more on your questions and policy

1543
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,920
decisions than it is on presentation

1544
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,640
itself. presentation is fairly easy.

1545
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,160
Let's see. Let me make sure I know how

1546
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:14,160
to Okay, so the intent here, let me let

1547
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:15,599
me give a couple introductory remarks

1548
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:19,359
before we go forward. And uh we've split

1549
00:55:19,359 --> 00:55:21,599
the development agreement and the real

1550
00:55:21,599 --> 00:55:23,119
estate purchase agreement, which I'll

1551
00:55:23,119 --> 00:55:25,920
often refer to as the Repsy addendum

1552
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,960
into two separate uh two separate agenda

1553
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:30,079
items. We're going to go through the

1554
00:55:30,079 --> 00:55:31,200
development agreement first, then I

1555
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:32,880
think there's a break before we go over

1556
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,200
the Repzy addendum.

1557
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,280
There are

1558
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,400
the intent here is that this is a

1559
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,079
presentation of of the latest draft and

1560
00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:45,040
there have been various drafts

1561
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:46,640
circulating. One of them was seen at the

1562
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:48,319
planning commission meeting and the

1563
00:55:48,319 --> 00:55:50,640
intent here is to present to you in

1564
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,119
detail the current draft of what's been

1565
00:55:53,119 --> 00:55:56,160
proposed for you to approve in the case

1566
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,040
of the development agreement in uh in

1567
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,839
line with the reszone. Right? the res

1568
00:56:01,839 --> 00:56:03,119
there's been an application for a

1569
00:56:03,119 --> 00:56:07,440
reszone. That application uh proposes

1570
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,520
the development agreement and you're

1571
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,559
being asked to propo to follow our

1572
00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:15,040
normal process of approving the reszone

1573
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,440
contingent upon execution of the

1574
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,119
development agreement. It's just that

1575
00:56:19,119 --> 00:56:20,799
this development agreement is much more

1576
00:56:20,799 --> 00:56:22,720
detailed and in-depth than you're used

1577
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:24,000
to seeing. So, we're going to go through

1578
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:25,599
it and make sure that you understand

1579
00:56:25,599 --> 00:56:27,920
everything about it and that anything

1580
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:29,359
you want changed that we get changed

1581
00:56:29,359 --> 00:56:31,839
before your voting. So that's really the

1582
00:56:31,839 --> 00:56:34,960
intent. Now having said that,

1583
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:36,880
what my hope is that as we go through

1584
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:38,640
this and we're going to go through kind

1585
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,799
of slide by slide, section by section,

1586
00:56:40,799 --> 00:56:42,640
my hope is that as you want things

1587
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,280
changed that you make motions about the

1588
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,040
things that you want changed because

1589
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:48,720
it's going to be very difficult to try

1590
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:52,319
to take seven persons individual

1591
00:56:52,319 --> 00:56:54,400
feedback and turn that into a into a

1592
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,559
draft. So, if there's something in any

1593
00:56:56,559 --> 00:56:58,640
one of these sections that you think is

1594
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,640
not the way that you would want it, then

1595
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,079
what I'm counting on is that you are

1596
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:03,359
going to make a motion and we're going

1597
00:57:03,359 --> 00:57:04,960
to find out if the majority of the

1598
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,480
council wants it changed the same way

1599
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,000
that you do. Any questions about that we

1600
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,119
get started? Okay, let's dig in. So, uh

1601
00:57:13,119 --> 00:57:14,400
I'm going to start the development

1602
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:15,760
agreement. I'm not going to go through

1603
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:17,920
every single paragraph. I will later

1604
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,640
with the repsy. But the first two pages

1605
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,240
of the development agreement are just

1606
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,040
some recital about the which property

1607
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,280
we're talking about. Um, and it's all

1608
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,559
standard boiler state plate stuff. The

1609
00:57:30,559 --> 00:57:32,000
substantive part of the agreement that

1610
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,480
starts on page two. [snorts] Paragraph

1611
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,359
one just references the recital above.

1612
00:57:37,359 --> 00:57:39,359
Paragraph two talks about the zoning.

1613
00:57:39,359 --> 00:57:40,960
Paragraph three is the first one where

1614
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,440
there's been some questions. Okay, so

1615
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:45,440
paragraph 3 is the governing standards.

1616
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:46,960
And there's two things I want to point

1617
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,760
out about this. Most of this falls right

1618
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:51,359
in line with our standard template.

1619
00:57:51,359 --> 00:57:53,119
There's two different well actually

1620
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:55,599
there's only one difference. One of the

1621
00:57:55,599 --> 00:57:58,079
things that we've that has come up in

1622
00:57:58,079 --> 00:58:00,160
some of the previous discussions is this

1623
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,640
phrase here. All developer submitts must

1624
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,200
comply generally with the concept plan.

1625
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,040
There's been some critique publicly of

1626
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,440
the of the word generally. I will say

1627
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,799
this is what our template says. Uh,

1628
00:58:12,799 --> 00:58:14,319
personally I'm not terribly concerned

1629
00:58:14,319 --> 00:58:15,760
about it because what the sentence says

1630
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:19,680
is submitts must generally comply. Every

1631
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,200
submitt is still going to get reviewed

1632
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,200
by our entire process for compliance

1633
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:24,400
with the development agreement and

1634
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,160
compliance with our code and they won't

1635
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,880
be approved unless they they comply. So

1636
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,880
this is uh this is the standard sentence

1637
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,359
out of our our template about the fact

1638
00:58:33,359 --> 00:58:34,799
that they need to follow the concept

1639
00:58:34,799 --> 00:58:36,480
plan when they're submitting

1640
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:37,920
applications.

1641
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,400
K, on that note, the concept plan, you

1642
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,040
mentioned in the email that

1643
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:44,640
since the planning commission denied it,

1644
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:46,319
there is no concept plan.

1645
00:58:46,319 --> 00:58:48,720
>> Well, I mentioned that there isn't one

1646
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:50,400
that goes back to the planning

1647
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,880
commission. So, the concept plan, and I

1648
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,240
was going to get to this in a in another

1649
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:55,599
slide, but it's a good point to make

1650
00:58:55,599 --> 00:58:58,319
right now. The concept plan will be an

1651
00:58:58,319 --> 00:59:00,160
exhibit to the development agreement.

1652
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,079
It's currently listed as exhibit B to

1653
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:04,319
the development agreement. As some of

1654
00:59:04,319 --> 00:59:05,599
you have pointed out and as some of the

1655
00:59:05,599 --> 00:59:06,960
public have pointed out, the current

1656
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,680
draft does not have the current concept

1657
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:11,680
plan in it. I spoke with Brian about

1658
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:14,559
this this morning and Vesper is

1659
00:59:14,559 --> 00:59:15,839
essentially waiting to get all the

1660
00:59:15,839 --> 00:59:18,079
feedback that they get from this meeting

1661
00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:21,280
to incorporate into a new site plan that

1662
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,599
will be the exhibit B that will be that

1663
00:59:23,599 --> 00:59:25,440
will be in the development agreement

1664
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:26,880
that comes to you when it's time to

1665
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:27,280
vote.

1666
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:28,559
>> So, a planning commission will be

1667
00:59:28,559 --> 00:59:30,000
approving it, but we would be approving

1668
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:31,920
it in our vote of a zone change.

1669
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:33,599
>> Correct. And then the next thing that

1670
00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:35,760
would go back to planning commission

1671
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,359
assuming that everything proceeds as

1672
00:59:37,359 --> 00:59:41,599
normal is the project plan would go to planning commission as they

1673
00:59:41,599 --> 00:59:44,640
were looking for permits and for the the

1674
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:46,240
project to proceed forward.

1675
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,559
>> Okay. So even after whatever we do, a

1676
00:59:48,559 --> 00:59:50,000
project plan still goes with planning

1677
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,599
commission and they can make changes and

1678
00:59:53,599 --> 00:59:54,880
what could

1679
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,799
>> but the but the project the project plan

1680
00:59:56,799 --> 00:59:58,480
is just reviewed in accordance with code

1681
00:59:58,480 --> 00:59:59,520
and now the development

1682
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:00,240
>> it's just a

1683
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:02,079
>> so planning commission's review would be

1684
01:00:02,079 --> 01:00:04,319
does this project plan comply with the

1685
01:00:04,319 --> 01:00:05,760
code and does it comply with the

1686
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:06,480
development agreement.

1687
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:06,880
>> Okay.

1688
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:08,559
>> Exactly.

1689
01:00:08,559 --> 01:00:10,480
>> Um the other

1690
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:13,040
>> Okay, Beck I'm sorry.

1691
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,079
So, the one thing that I know some of

1692
01:00:16,079 --> 01:00:17,599
the people that I've talked to, they're

1693
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:20,480
really concerned about the

1694
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,720
parking garage, making sure that it

1695
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:24,720
blends in and that it's set back the way

1696
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:26,319
that it is in the current concept plan.

1697
01:00:26,319 --> 01:00:28,640
They don't want it like out right by the

1698
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:30,240
road.

1699
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,280
How much leeway does Bill have um where

1700
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:35,280
that's actually located? Can they stick

1701
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,079
it if it's all if the concept plans

1702
01:00:38,079 --> 01:00:39,920
everything's approved and then it comes

1703
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:41,359
that there's a fault line right through

1704
01:00:41,359 --> 01:00:43,280
that parking garage area. Could they

1705
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:44,880
move it next to the road or is there

1706
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:48,240
like 20% around where it goes or

1707
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,880
>> Great question. So the concept plan

1708
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:52,079
that's going to be approved in the

1709
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:53,520
development agreement is going to have a

1710
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:55,040
site plan that's going to show where the

1711
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:57,520
buildings go. That's going to be binding

1712
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,839
except as modified by this paragraph.

1713
01:00:59,839 --> 01:01:04,640
So, this says non-material variations.

1714
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:08,000
Uh, it's actually this is it's skipping

1715
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,960
a sentence. Sorry. Um, there's a

1716
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:12,559
sentence before this that says that's

1717
01:01:12,559 --> 01:01:13,680
not shown on your slide that says

1718
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:15,760
non-material variations to the concept

1719
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,240
plan may be approved by the city's

1720
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:19,599
development services director without

1721
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:20,799
city councilor planning commission

1722
01:01:20,799 --> 01:01:23,359
approval. So, so that's why this

1723
01:01:23,359 --> 01:01:25,040
definition of non-material is so

1724
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:26,480
important because that's what that's the

1725
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,640
discretion that Bill has to deviate from

1726
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:29,520
the exhibit.

1727
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:30,720
>> What is non-material?

1728
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:31,920
>> And that's what's defined right here.

1729
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:33,920
Non-material variations include

1730
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:35,839
alterations to building footprint

1731
01:01:35,839 --> 01:01:38,880
locations and pedestrian walkways,

1732
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:40,559
adjustments to accommodate engineering

1733
01:01:40,559 --> 01:01:43,280
specific specifications, locations of

1734
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,920
open space and parking, updated

1735
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:47,520
architectural designs and features of

1736
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:49,440
similar quality and other such

1737
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:51,040
modifications. so long as such

1738
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:52,720
variations do not material change

1739
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:55,359
permitted uses or the overall design and

1740
01:01:55,359 --> 01:01:56,799
development standards of the project.

1741
01:01:56,799 --> 01:01:58,319
Now, I'm going to before I answer your

1742
01:01:58,319 --> 01:01:59,359
question more, I'm going to go to the

1743
01:01:59,359 --> 01:02:00,079
next slide.

1744
01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:00,400
>> Okay?

1745
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:04,640
>> Um because this this is what I just read

1746
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:07,520
to you. This is actually what's in our

1747
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,000
template. Okay? So, this is what this is

1748
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,480
where we usually start from. This is

1749
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,640
what the developer has pro has has

1750
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:16,960
proposed which is more expansive than

1751
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:18,960
our normal, right? Because under our

1752
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:23,520
normal template um the only but the

1753
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:25,760
developer can or sorry the development

1754
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,640
services director can has discretion

1755
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:30,960
over exact building locations and exact

1756
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,040
locations of open space and parking. Now

1757
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:34,799
those are exactly the ones that you were

1758
01:02:34,799 --> 01:02:36,160
just talking about. So that was still

1759
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,599
included in our um in our overall

1760
01:02:39,599 --> 01:02:43,280
template, right? Um but they can't

1761
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,280
choose they can't change density, use

1762
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,799
and intensity. So again, we can narrow

1763
01:02:48,799 --> 01:02:51,839
that down uh as much as we need to as

1764
01:02:51,839 --> 01:02:54,720
and as much as is feasible. I think at

1765
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:56,799
some at some point, whether it's now or

1766
01:02:56,799 --> 01:02:59,280
later during the Q&A, we'll probably

1767
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,680
hear from the developer about how

1768
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:04,400
concrete the plan can be at this moment.

1769
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,880
But if what you're specifically worried

1770
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,280
about is the parking garage, one option

1771
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:13,040
is also to um have a a specific

1772
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:14,960
provision about the location of the

1773
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:16,799
parking garage. even if other things are

1774
01:03:16,799 --> 01:03:22,069
still modifiable. That makes sense.

1775
01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:23,520
» Council,

1776
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,400
>> yeah, because I I understand that a full

1777
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,640
geotechnical study has not been done and

1778
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,319
things may need to be shifted within the

1779
01:03:30,319 --> 01:03:32,640
site to accommodate that, but I like

1780
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,119
that in our template,

1781
01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:38,960
Bill has the authority to approve that.

1782
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,079
And in the current thing, it doesn't

1783
01:03:42,079 --> 01:03:44,720
look like Bill's approval is necessary.

1784
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,119
Well, I'm sorry.

1785
01:03:47,119 --> 01:03:48,640
>> It's in the sentence that I read that

1786
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,319
isn't on the slide. It's still it's

1787
01:03:50,319 --> 01:03:53,440
still Bill's decision to make any dev to

1788
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:55,760
approve any deviations from any

1789
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:57,839
non-material variations from the

1790
01:03:57,839 --> 01:03:58,559
concept.

1791
01:03:58,559 --> 01:04:00,640
>> It says it may be approved by the city's

1792
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,480
development services director,

1793
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:02,960
>> right?

1794
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:04,720
>> Which gets to another one of our little

1795
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:06,640
>> meaning we've got meaning that if he

1796
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:07,599
doesn't approve it, it's

1797
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:08,960
>> he does not prove to approve it

1798
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:10,160
>> and he's not required.

1799
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:13,440
>> Okay. when it says since we've taken out

1800
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:15,839
no they can't change the maximum density

1801
01:04:15,839 --> 01:04:16,960
but we already have that another

1802
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:18,720
provision that the maximum densities

1803
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,119
right right so why why was that

1804
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:24,789
important to remove

1805
01:04:24,799 --> 01:04:27,760
» that I don't know I that uh we'd have to

1806
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:29,280
ask

1807
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:31,680
the developer

1808
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:32,799
>> I'm assuming that they don't

1809
01:04:32,799 --> 01:04:34,319
>> let me be clear what is that maximum

1810
01:04:34,319 --> 01:04:35,280
density

1811
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:39,680
>> well again the reason why this is in the development agreement in the

1812
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:44,480
first place the reason why that's in our template is because 95% of the

1813
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,400
times that we're doing one of these,

1814
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,240
it's we're talking about a residential

1815
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,760
project where the zone allows 50 units

1816
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:53,359
per acre and we don't want it to be more

1817
01:04:53,359 --> 01:04:56,880
than 25. And so this that phrase is in

1818
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,680
here to say if the development agreement

1819
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:01,440
says you can't do more than 25 units per

1820
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:03,440
acre, the development services director

1821
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:05,440
cannot change that. That's what it's in

1822
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:06,400
there for.

1823
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,720
>> So given this project, what would we

1824
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,760
consider maximum density? Uh I don't

1825
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:13,280
know that there really is a maximum

1826
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:14,640
density in this project because there's

1827
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:21,839
no residential units and every spec the parking the hotel uh and the

1828
01:05:21,839 --> 01:05:24,240
amphitheater all have individual caps on

1829
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:26,400
their size and the commercial space has

1830
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:28,079
its own individual cap as well.

1831
01:05:28,079 --> 01:05:29,920
>> So let's take the amphitheater. So the

1832
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:31,839
maximum density according to this is

1833
01:05:31,839 --> 01:05:34,000
20,000 seats. Correct.

1834
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,160
>> Does that does that mean 20,000

1835
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:40,000
attendees or 20,000 seats?

1836
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,920
That's a great question and I don't

1837
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:43,440
>> you could have open up

1838
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:44,720
>> I asked that last time

1839
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:46,799
>> several thousand oh you know people with

1840
01:05:46,799 --> 01:05:48,000
grass seeding or whatever.

1841
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:49,920
>> Okay so to that which is in one of the

1842
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:51,039
later slides that's been one of the

1843
01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:52,640
questions that's asked and it was in the

1844
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:54,400
m materials

1845
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:56,160
>> uh Malia and Tanner prepared questions

1846
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,119
that were sent to to Vesper they sent

1847
01:05:59,119 --> 01:06:00,960
back answers one of the answers to that

1848
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,280
was that they will not allow seed in on

1849
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:04,640
the grass area and that they're fine to

1850
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:06,000
put that in the development agreement

1851
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:07,200
although it's not there yet. The maximum

1852
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,119
density for that would be 20,000

1853
01:06:09,119 --> 01:06:10,000
individuals.

1854
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:10,480
>> Correct?

1855
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:13,510
>> Okay.

1856
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:15,039
Any other questions about this

1857
01:06:15,039 --> 01:06:18,559
particular paragraph?

1858
01:06:18,559 --> 01:06:20,400
And you see why I scheduled 90 minutes

1859
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:22,240
and see.

1860
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:26,880
Okay. So, this is uh so section four is

1861
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,359
about the permitted uses. Uh there's

1862
01:06:29,359 --> 01:06:31,200
been a lot of discussion about this, but

1863
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:35,839
this uh goes through and it says uh that

1864
01:06:35,839 --> 01:06:37,280
uh pursuant to the agreement, they can

1865
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,839
do the indoor outdoor amphitheater venue

1866
01:06:39,839 --> 01:06:41,920
on a year- round basis. That

1867
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:44,240
notwithstanding whatever else the SC3

1868
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:46,000
zone says, they can only do the

1869
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,720
following things. the venue, public

1870
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,480
assemblies,

1871
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:54,079
uh, plaza activities, the hotel of up to

1872
01:06:54,079 --> 01:06:56,799
75 rooms, ancillary, commercial and

1873
01:06:56,799 --> 01:06:58,480
retail uses, which I'll talk about in

1874
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:00,640
just a second, underground parking,

1875
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:02,319
temporary staging. So, the these are the

1876
01:07:02,319 --> 01:07:05,520
only uses permitted on the property,

1877
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:07,280
uh, with, and you probably have

1878
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:08,880
questions, but I'll skip ahead. I'll go

1879
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:10,400
ahead to this before we take the

1880
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:12,799
questions, which is this definition of

1881
01:07:12,799 --> 01:07:16,559
an slowly used. So let me back up uh

1882
01:07:16,559 --> 01:07:19,760
back back here where it says ancillary

1883
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:21,680
commercial and retail uses compatible

1884
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,079
with the amphitheater use that's

1885
01:07:24,079 --> 01:07:26,079
modified by this which means it has to

1886
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:28,319
be incidental subordinate integrated

1887
01:07:28,319 --> 01:07:32,079
with the the the amphitheater the hotel

1888
01:07:32,079 --> 01:07:34,559
guest service food and beverage etc.

1889
01:07:34,559 --> 01:07:36,640
Only permitted if the if the

1890
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:38,480
amphitheater has been completed and is

1891
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,359
active use so they can't build the other

1892
01:07:41,359 --> 01:07:41,680
stuff.

1893
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:43,280
>> Okay so that was one of my questions. So

1894
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:45,680
they the amphitheater has to be built

1895
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:48,720
and usable before they can use the hotel

1896
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:50,880
or the commercial space.

1897
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:52,559
>> Um

1898
01:07:52,559 --> 01:07:59,200
the commercial space, yes. I don't think as currently written that

1899
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:03,440
this prevents the hotel from being used.

1900
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:05,680
Um

1901
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:07,760
because so ancillary uses may be

1902
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:09,119
constructed concurrently with the

1903
01:08:09,119 --> 01:08:11,359
construction of the venue and the hotel,

1904
01:08:11,359 --> 01:08:13,599
but the uses are only permitted if the

1905
01:08:13,599 --> 01:08:15,839
venue is completed and in use, but but

1906
01:08:15,839 --> 01:08:17,520
the hotel is not one of the ancillary

1907
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,159
uses. So the hotel could operate first

1908
01:08:20,159 --> 01:08:22,880
as currently written.

1909
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:26,640
Other questions about that?

1910
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:28,960
Um, and then just, you know, some some

1911
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,679
legal speak to say even that we have to

1912
01:08:31,679 --> 01:08:33,440
record those uses on the property and

1913
01:08:33,440 --> 01:08:35,679
that those are the only uses permitted

1914
01:08:35,679 --> 01:08:37,679
in perpetuity.

1915
01:08:37,679 --> 01:08:39,199
>> Okay. Councelor B,

1916
01:08:39,199 --> 01:08:42,560
>> is this someone that caps the commercial

1917
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:44,640
that it can only be like 100?

1918
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:47,202
>> No, that is

1919
01:08:47,202 --> 01:08:47,839
[clears throat]

1920
01:08:47,839 --> 01:08:50,000
okay. So, that's a little bit later.

1921
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:51,679
>> Okay, then I'll wait for my question

1922
01:08:51,679 --> 01:08:53,120
later. As long as we're getting to it. I

1923
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:55,040
had put this in to councelor

1924
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,040
Christensen's uh question a few minutes

1925
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,920
ago. This was something that Vesper had

1926
01:08:59,920 --> 01:09:00,880
put in the materials that were

1927
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,120
distributed earlier, which was both that

1928
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:04,480
they're willing to add to the

1929
01:09:04,480 --> 01:09:05,920
development agreement the ban on the

1930
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:09,440
grass seating and uh and also to

1931
01:09:09,440 --> 01:09:12,159
specifically specify that a tram is not

1932
01:09:12,159 --> 01:09:14,319
a permitted use. It my view it wouldn't

1933
01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:16,000
be anyway because it's not in the list

1934
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,000
but they but because there were concerns

1935
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:19,600
raised about it they said we're fine to

1936
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:23,040
put in explicitly that it's prohibited

1937
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:23,359
but

1938
01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:24,319
>> could I just mention

1939
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:25,120
>> yeah Brian

1940
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:26,560
>> can you stand up to the microphone

1941
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:27,040
though and

1942
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:32,719
>> yeah Brian Bis um with Development um I don't I think um you've kind of

1943
01:09:32,719 --> 01:09:34,239
mentioned a few different ideas the idea

1944
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:36,400
is that 20,000 can't be exceeded and

1945
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:37,679
that's the commitment that we're making

1946
01:09:37,679 --> 01:09:39,839
here um it's not that we can't seat

1947
01:09:39,839 --> 01:09:41,920
people on the grass so as long as we're

1948
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:43,440
below the

1949
01:09:43,440 --> 01:09:45,120
Yeah, exactly.

1950
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:47,279
>> Yeah, it's it's the 20 is the cap and so

1951
01:09:47,279 --> 01:09:48,640
we could still see people on the grass

1952
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,319
if we chose to do that. We haven't made

1953
01:09:50,319 --> 01:09:52,640
that decision yet, but the 20,000 is the

1954
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:55,440
>> Okay, fair enough.

1955
01:09:55,440 --> 01:09:58,880
All right, so then getting on to Well,

1956
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:00,000
let's see. We're still not quite to

1957
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,520
Buckley's question yet, but we'll get

1958
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:05,360
there. Uh

1959
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:08,080
>> so, oh, I guess my slide skipped over my

1960
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:09,679
slides skip over section five. Section

1961
01:10:09,679 --> 01:10:12,239
five is the height standards. So, as you

1962
01:10:12,239 --> 01:10:14,719
may recall, uh, structures can't exceed

1963
01:10:14,719 --> 01:10:16,640
three stories or 50 feet, even though

1964
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:20,159
the SC3 zone allows higher, except for,

1965
01:10:20,159 --> 01:10:22,480
uh, the specific theatrical rigging fly

1966
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:25,840
loft, which can be up to 125. So, okay.

1967
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,239
So, now we're up to I think Becky's

1968
01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:30,560
question, which is these are the caps.

1969
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:32,880
So, 20,000 seats. So, we'll clarify this

1970
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:34,560
that that means 20,000 people, not

1971
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:38,320
20,000 seats plus other area. Uh, 75

1972
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,360
rooms for the hotel. And then there's

1973
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:44,320
this cap of 150,000 square ft on

1974
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:46,320
aggregate square footage of commercial

1975
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:50,159
uses that is listed here as total gross

1976
01:10:50,159 --> 01:10:52,800
flurry of merchandise, restaurant, food

1977
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:55,280
and beverage, guest service, event

1978
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:57,360
support, administrative operations,

1979
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:00,400
other project serving building areas. Um

1980
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:02,080
so so that's what's included at the

1981
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:04,000
moment. Doesn't include the amphitheater

1982
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,000
or the hotel

1983
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,000
um

1984
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:10,239
>> or or the parking. Okay.

1985
01:11:10,239 --> 01:11:12,800
>> So that 50,000 square feet is not the

1986
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,679
hotel and that is not the amphitheater

1987
01:11:15,679 --> 01:11:17,040
and that is not parking.

1988
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:17,840
>> Correct.

1989
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:21,280
>> So it was brought up that Riverwoods is

1990
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:24,560
what 180,000 square ft.

1991
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:28,080
So this is a mall

1992
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:31,760
with a hotel and a concert venue. Why

1993
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:35,840
would you need 150,000 square feet?

1994
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,239
Why would you need a little less than a

1995
01:11:38,239 --> 01:11:39,360
riverwoods there?

1996
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:40,640
>> Like yeah, I would like to really

1997
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,280
specify that it is going to be the only

1998
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:45,360
retail could be well besides the food

1999
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:47,360
retail that's old thing. [clears throat]

2000
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:49,040
But

2001
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:50,880
the merchandise for the artists

2002
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:52,560
performing and then sundaries, right?

2003
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:56,560
Like band-aids or whatever for like a

2004
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:57,920
convenient thing for like because people

2005
01:11:57,920 --> 01:11:59,120
are going to be kept their biking and

2006
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:00,719
hiking and doing their stuff at like a

2007
01:12:00,719 --> 01:12:02,000
that'd be great. But

2008
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:03,760
>> it does like it people are worried it's

2009
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:04,719
going to be a mall. I keep saying a

2010
01:12:04,719 --> 01:12:06,080
mall. It's not going to be I don't think

2011
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:08,000
anyone intends it to be a mall, but I

2012
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:09,600
think we need to make that clearer.

2013
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,000
>> And uh I had a conversation with Brian a

2014
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:14,800
couple times about this over the LA over

2015
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:19,600
the since Thursday. And essentially I

2016
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:21,440
think that I think as I understand it

2017
01:12:21,440 --> 01:12:22,880
and I'll let them speak for themselves

2018
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:25,199
here in a second but I think the thought

2019
01:12:25,199 --> 01:12:29,120
process was because if you look at this

2020
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:30,800
even though the even though it says

2021
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,199
commercial uses

2022
01:12:33,199 --> 01:12:35,600
including retail and operations and then

2023
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:38,080
they list essentially everything that's

2024
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:42,719
not the hotel the the venue and the uh

2025
01:12:42,719 --> 01:12:44,800
and the parking. So I don't, as I

2026
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:46,719
understand it, the idea was not to say

2027
01:12:46,719 --> 01:12:49,120
we can build 150,000 ft of commercial.

2028
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:51,040
It was to say we can build 150,000

2029
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:53,679
square feet of everything else and then

2030
01:12:53,679 --> 01:12:56,000
their concept plan shows what those

2031
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:58,000
things are. But there have been a lot of

2032
01:12:58,000 --> 01:12:59,760
concerns expressed about that and I

2033
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:01,520
think that's something. So I don't know

2034
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:02,960
if this would be a good time to invite

2035
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:04,640
them to address that.

2036
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:05,920
>> Okay. Council Whipple.

2037
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,640
>> Yeah. I partly on the retail facing

2038
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:10,320
side, you're going to want that spread

2039
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:11,679
out because if you have a lot of people

2040
01:13:11,679 --> 01:13:13,280
there, they can't all go to one little

2041
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:16,080
bodega size thing. So, I think that's

2042
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:19,280
one portion of it. Um, and on sales, I

2043
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:20,800
want to be able to like buy a Vesper

2044
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:22,159
t-shirt or something just like you could

2045
01:13:22,159 --> 01:13:23,679
at Sundance, right? That would be part

2046
01:13:23,679 --> 01:13:25,360
of their centuries, I would expect, is

2047
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:27,040
their own brand thing as well as the

2048
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:30,719
artist thinks. But what I'm wondering is

2049
01:13:30,719 --> 01:13:33,520
this operations, would this include like

2050
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:35,040
the area where you've got like the

2051
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:37,840
loading base where you've got the

2052
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:39,840
performers and their big trailers coming

2053
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,000
in to unload their equipment and

2054
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:43,679
everything up like that seems like that

2055
01:13:43,679 --> 01:13:45,679
would be operations and I think that

2056
01:13:45,679 --> 01:13:48,480
would take up a lot of space. So I don't

2057
01:13:48,480 --> 01:13:50,400
expect that all of this aggregate square

2058
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:53,280
footage ends up being consumerf facing

2059
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:56,400
or client facing. probably some portion

2060
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:58,000
of it is back in and they may be able to

2061
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,800
tell her what that percentage would be.

2062
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:02,080
>> And one of the and one of the

2063
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:03,679
conversations that I had with them over

2064
01:14:03,679 --> 01:14:05,280
the weekend is that because I know

2065
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:06,400
there's been a lot of concern about this

2066
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:09,360
is maybe this definition is so broad it

2067
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:11,120
needs to be split up into two categories

2068
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:11,520
itself.

2069
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:13,760
>> It absolutely does. I mean that tells me

2070
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:16,719
nothing. Uh people's concern is mall up

2071
01:14:16,719 --> 01:14:17,360
there

2072
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:18,400
>> and they have every right to be

2073
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:20,960
concerned. So if it really is part of

2074
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:22,000
what we talked about at the very

2075
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:25,040
beginning was some merch that's a Costco

2076
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:27,840
of merch. Um that doesn't make sense. So

2077
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:29,679
if that's not what's meant, we got to

2078
01:14:29,679 --> 01:14:31,920
specifically call out x number of feet

2079
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:36,159
maximum in retail square footage. That would be helpful for me. Okay.

2080
01:14:36,159 --> 01:14:37,360
>> Council Whitlock.

2081
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:38,960
>> Yeah. Just a related question. I think

2082
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:40,480
the language in a previous slide that

2083
01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:41,920
you you said we'll talk about this in a

2084
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:45,040
minute was it was like associated.

2085
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:48,960
Well, the ancillary uses and so yes, you're right

2086
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:50,239
that

2087
01:14:50,239 --> 01:14:53,199
>> um again if we go because the the two

2088
01:14:53,199 --> 01:14:55,199
work in conjunction. So the square

2089
01:14:55,199 --> 01:14:57,199
footage limitation is not the only

2090
01:14:57,199 --> 01:14:59,440
limitation. They also have to abide by

2091
01:14:59,440 --> 01:15:02,400
the permitted uses and under that any

2092
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:06,480
retail that did not meet this definition

2093
01:15:06,480 --> 01:15:08,159
would not be permitted no matter what

2094
01:15:08,159 --> 01:15:10,800
the size was. if they couldn't they

2095
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:12,880
couldn't build 10 square ft of retail

2096
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:15,120
that doesn't meet this definition let

2097
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,760
alone 150,000 square ft

2098
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:19,040
>> which is not to say that it may not

2099
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:21,040
still be useful to be more to be more

2100
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:23,600
granular about the that square footage

2101
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:27,120
>> could you give me um lawyer to layman

2102
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:30,000
translation of that of the c that c

2103
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:31,760
>> term of what that that what that defines

2104
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:34,000
>> of the ancillary uses

2105
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:35,840
>> so

2106
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,640
um the yeah good question because a lot

2107
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:41,360
of these are use are uses that we uh do

2108
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:44,640
use all the time. So essentially if I

2109
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:49,040
think probably the lay layman's way of defining incidental subordinate

2110
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:53,840
integrated with is any retail that if

2111
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:58,159
the venue wasn't there

2112
01:15:58,159 --> 01:16:01,600
wouldn't be there is not permitted. Does

2113
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:02,960
that does that kind of make does that

2114
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:05,199
kind of make sense? Like if you if

2115
01:16:05,199 --> 01:16:08,000
you're not building the retail

2116
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:10,640
because you built the amphitheater, it

2117
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:11,840
would not be permitted.

2118
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:13,679
>> Could I give you a couple cases and you

2119
01:16:13,679 --> 01:16:14,560
can interpret it for me?

2120
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:15,040
>> Yeah.

2121
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,440
>> So, a restaurant at the hotel.

2122
01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:21,440
>> Well, that's not even that's already explicitly um

2123
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:23,120
>> permitted in a different cause. Okay.

2124
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:23,600
>> Yeah.

2125
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:26,880
>> What about a uh a bunch of restaurants

2126
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:28,800
that are not explicitly associated with

2127
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:29,600
hotel?

2128
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,159
>> Uh this explicitly allows restaurants.

2129
01:16:32,159 --> 01:16:34,400
So at the moment there's no

2130
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:35,840
>> but those don't have to be explicitly

2131
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:37,199
connected to the hotel and how it's

2132
01:16:37,199 --> 01:16:37,760
written.

2133
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:38,400
>> No.

2134
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:41,040
>> So you could for example have a

2135
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:43,520
riverwoods of restaurants and bars up

2136
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:45,199
there. Is that permitted according to

2137
01:16:45,199 --> 01:16:45,520
this?

2138
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,320
>> You theoretically could have up to

2139
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:50,159
150,000 square feet of restaurants and

2140
01:16:50,159 --> 01:16:50,719
bars.

2141
01:16:50,719 --> 01:16:52,080
>> Okay. I just want to make sure I'm

2142
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:53,679
understanding this correct.

2143
01:16:53,679 --> 01:16:55,199
>> Thank you.

2144
01:16:55,199 --> 01:16:57,520
>> So councelor Whipple.

2145
01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,199
>> Yeah. So I'm wondering like guest

2146
01:16:59,199 --> 01:17:00,400
service would that also include

2147
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:02,320
restrooms? like how many square feet of

2148
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:03,600
restrooms are you going to have to

2149
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,320
provide if you're going to host 20,000

2150
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:07,199
people?

2151
01:17:07,199 --> 01:17:09,280
>> That's right. And that is one of the

2152
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:10,640
when Brian and I have talked about this

2153
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:12,000
before, the restrooms are included in

2154
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:14,320
the 150,000 square feet. But again, that

2155
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:16,960
kind of goes to the at least in my view,

2156
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:19,679
the idea of that category being so broad

2157
01:17:19,679 --> 01:17:20,800
that it would be better if it was at

2158
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:22,480
least two categories instead of just

2159
01:17:22,480 --> 01:17:22,880
one.

2160
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:24,960
>> Yeah. Because it looks like we've got,

2161
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:26,719
you know, back-end operations included

2162
01:17:26,719 --> 01:17:29,840
in this. We've got absolutely necessary

2163
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,880
guest services that have to be there

2164
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,280
>> for this facility to work

2165
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:38,080
>> and then you will have retail and these

2166
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:39,760
more commercial things

2167
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:42,400
>> that are going to fit in after you've

2168
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:44,080
hit those mandatory things for the

2169
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:46,960
project. But we don't know what those

2170
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:49,920
percentages are.

2171
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:50,719
>> Actually, they do.

2172
01:17:50,719 --> 01:17:53,360
>> They do. Well, I mean,

2173
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:55,040
>> it looks like on the slide they do. we

2174
01:17:55,040 --> 01:17:57,760
are are people who are emailing us and

2175
01:17:57,760 --> 01:17:59,600
so that's why we need to talk about this

2176
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:02,880
and have it clearly out and open.

2177
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:04,400
>> Uh would it be appropriate to have Brian

2178
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:05,760
address this slide now that he just put

2179
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:06,000
up?

2180
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:07,120
>> Yeah, that'd be great.

2181
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:08,000
>> Go ahead, Brian.

2182
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:11,280
>> Okay. Um so, thank you for uh these good

2183
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:12,400
questions. These are really important

2184
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:13,600
questions that we want to make sure

2185
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:15,679
being as explicitly clear as we possibly

2186
01:18:15,679 --> 01:18:18,640
can be. Um and it's exactly what Brian

2187
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:20,480
said. So, there are caps on everything

2188
01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:23,040
in this project. So the amphitheater has

2189
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:25,520
a cap, the restroom, uh or sorry, the

2190
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:27,040
restaurant has a cap. And so we've kind

2191
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:28,239
of looked at the restaurant cap as

2192
01:18:28,239 --> 01:18:29,440
anything that's associated with the

2193
01:18:29,440 --> 01:18:32,159
restaurant is included in that cap. Um

2194
01:18:32,159 --> 01:18:33,760
so we've got the amphitheater, we've got

2195
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:34,880
the restaurant, and then we've got

2196
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:37,360
separately a parking cap. So you can see

2197
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:39,280
those three caps up at the top. And then

2198
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:40,080
we said, okay,

2199
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:41,760
>> what do you mean? Hotel cap.

2200
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:43,679
>> Yeah, hotel. The rooms, the number of

2201
01:18:43,679 --> 01:18:46,159
rooms, Krice, that's exactly right. So

2202
01:18:46,159 --> 01:18:48,320
>> I'm sorry, I meant hotel. Yeah, the

2203
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:49,520
restaurant would be included in the

2204
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:51,440
additional square footage. and we heard

2205
01:18:51,440 --> 01:18:53,199
loud and clicker. It's like we are very

2206
01:18:53,199 --> 01:18:55,280
concerned about this turning into a

2207
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:57,360
mall. So we specifically said in the

2208
01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:59,920
uses a mall is not a permitted use. So

2209
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:02,239
that's one way that we said no that's

2210
01:19:02,239 --> 01:19:03,600
not our intent and we're willing to put

2211
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:05,360
that commitment in writing. And then the

2212
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:06,640
second way we felt like this was kind of

2213
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:09,199
a belt and sus suspenders approach. It

2214
01:19:09,199 --> 01:19:10,960
wasn't Greg that we have the approval to

2215
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:13,360
go do a Costco. It's the idea that we

2216
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:15,360
wanted to provide some context to say we

2217
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:16,800
can't just go do whatever we want up

2218
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:18,239
there. In addition to not being able to

2219
01:19:18,239 --> 01:19:20,719
do them all explicitly, we wanted to

2220
01:19:20,719 --> 01:19:23,120
give some context to say, hey, we right

2221
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,440
now are planning on an additional 111

2222
01:19:25,440 --> 01:19:28,080
square ft of retail space. Admittedly,

2223
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:29,360
there's a lot of things that we have yet

2224
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:31,440
to do in terms of design and the back

2225
01:19:31,440 --> 01:19:32,800
house. And there's always things that

2226
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:35,520
are changing. If you look at recently at

2227
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:37,360
amphitheaters, one of the big changes

2228
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:38,960
that's happened recently in the last 5

2229
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:40,239
years, and you know amphitheaters, and

2230
01:19:40,239 --> 01:19:42,320
you've probably seen this, is the VIP

2231
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:44,800
use of a of an amphitheater is

2232
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:46,320
significantly higher than an older

2233
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:48,239
amphitheater. So, we kind of said, "Hey,

2234
01:19:48,239 --> 01:19:49,280
look, we're going to be building this

2235
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:50,800
thing in the next 3 years. We want to

2236
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:52,239
give ourselves some level. We don't want

2237
01:19:52,239 --> 01:19:53,360
to have to come back to the city to have

2238
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:55,280
this conversation again." And so, here

2239
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:57,600
we think 150 is a reasonable amount of

2240
01:19:57,600 --> 01:19:59,600
space. And here are the uses that

2241
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:01,760
they're currently anticipating to get us

2242
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:04,320
to that 111 footage. So we've got food

2243
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:06,239
and beverage of 21,000 that would

2244
01:20:06,239 --> 01:20:07,920
include a restaurant. We've got a

2245
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:09,920
merchandise subto subtotal which again

2246
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,000
like was saying this is not this is not

2247
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:14,080
a major component of the project but we

2248
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:15,600
didn't have we kind of bucketed

2249
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:17,120
everything else at this 150 because we

2250
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:18,480
didn't have any other way of kind of

2251
01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:20,400
breaking it down. So we said okay

2252
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:22,159
merchandise we've got performer spaces

2253
01:20:22,159 --> 01:20:23,920
subtotal. This is a number that we could

2254
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:25,760
see flexing pretty dramatically.

2255
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:27,679
Operations and support subtotal. I mean,

2256
01:20:27,679 --> 01:20:28,715
that's the size of a pretty big

2257
01:20:28,715 --> 01:20:30,080
[clears throat] retail store, but that's

2258
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:31,280
just our maintenance. We've got to have

2259
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:32,960
a place to store, you know, our snow

2260
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:34,400
scraping equipment and our, you know,

2261
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:35,600
landscaping and some of those things.

2262
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:37,840
So, restroom, subtotal, circulation

2263
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:40,159
support, subtotal, uh, MEP, that's

2264
01:20:40,159 --> 01:20:42,400
mechanical engineering, uh, mechanical,

2265
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:44,320
electrical, and plumbing infrastructure.

2266
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:46,640
So, like anything that we had, we just

2267
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:48,320
jumped it in there. Now, if we didn't do

2268
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:50,080
this well enough, we're happy to take

2269
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:52,080
your feedback, but this was our way to

2270
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:54,239
say this is a belt. the belt being we

2271
01:20:54,239 --> 01:20:56,000
can't do them all and the suspenders

2272
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:57,920
being here's a breakdown of what the

2273
01:20:57,920 --> 01:20:59,679
square footage was. So we felt like we

2274
01:20:59,679 --> 01:21:01,760
were being very explicit and the

2275
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:03,520
additional language that provided in

2276
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:06,159
ancillary commercial we felt like really

2277
01:21:06,159 --> 01:21:07,920
clarified that it has to be directly

2278
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:09,760
connected. It couldn't be a best buy

2279
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:11,280
that we decided to put up there that's

2280
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:12,880
not directly connected to anything we're

2281
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,440
doing at Vesper. So again, if there's a

2282
01:21:15,440 --> 01:21:17,520
better way to do that for the council,

2283
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:19,280
we are very much open your suggestions,

2284
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:20,960
but we felt like this was over and

2285
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:22,239
above.

2286
01:21:22,239 --> 01:21:22,480
>> Great.

2287
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:23,920
>> So, so what I've proposed a couple

2288
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:25,840
times, and I don't know, and maybe this

2289
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:27,280
isn't even enough granularity for the

2290
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:28,640
council, but having seen this slide

2291
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:32,080
before, if it were if it were me, I

2292
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:35,600
would divide the 150,000 into this group

2293
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:36,640
and this group.

2294
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:37,280
>> Yes.

2295
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:40,159
>> And uh and and maybe these numbers all

2296
01:21:40,159 --> 01:21:42,480
go up to total 150 instead. So they've

2297
01:21:42,480 --> 01:21:44,400
got some So they've got some wiggle

2298
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:45,679
room. I don't think we necessarily need

2299
01:21:45,679 --> 01:21:47,679
to not pin them down to wiggle room, but

2300
01:21:47,679 --> 01:21:49,280
I would I would divide these two into

2301
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:50,719
their own category and this into a

2302
01:21:50,719 --> 01:21:52,800
separate category. And I think that

2303
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:54,400
would address most of the issues that

2304
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:55,360
I've heard so far.

2305
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:56,320
>> Yeah, I agree.

2306
01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:57,440
>> That's great.

2307
01:21:57,440 --> 01:22:00,560
>> And like is this something so you'd put

2308
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:01,840
this in the agreement? It's not part of

2309
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:03,040
the concept plan. It would be part of

2310
01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:03,920
the agreement,

2311
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:04,400
>> right?

2312
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:05,040
>> Okay.

2313
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:06,480
>> Should we make a motion on that or

2314
01:22:06,480 --> 01:22:07,199
>> I would love one.

2315
01:22:07,199 --> 01:22:08,480
>> Okay. [laughter]

2316
01:22:08,480 --> 01:22:09,600
>> Trying to follow your feedback.

2317
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:11,520
>> We're gonna make a motion. O'Brien just

2318
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:13,760
said to

2319
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:16,159
put together into two categories the

2320
01:22:16,159 --> 01:22:19,040
ancillary commercial in categories of

2321
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:21,520
food and beverage and merchandise as

2322
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:23,040
well. And then the other category will

2323
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:24,880
be the performer spaces, operations,

2324
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:29,360
restrooms, circulation and um MEP

2325
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:32,239
infrastructure.

2326
01:22:32,239 --> 01:22:33,520
>> I'll second that.

2327
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:36,159
>> Right. Second by Jeff. Any discussion on

2328
01:22:36,159 --> 01:22:37,760
that piece of it?

2329
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:40,560
>> Um yeah, I just want to be clear. So the

2330
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:42,639
numbers that they've put in I think

2331
01:22:42,639 --> 01:22:45,520
represent the floor. And so they've

2332
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:46,960
defined a floor for each of those

2333
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:48,960
categories. Right now they haven't

2334
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:52,239
defined what the ceiling is because the

2335
01:22:52,239 --> 01:22:54,560
general overall ceiling is 150.

2336
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:56,320
>> Oh, I see. So it's one,

2337
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:56,719
>> right?

2338
01:22:56,719 --> 01:22:58,800
>> Well, I think they can do it up to 150

2339
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:00,400
in those two categories.

2340
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:01,440
>> Yes.

2341
01:23:01,440 --> 01:23:04,480
>> Well, actually, no. Uh that's that's

2342
01:23:04,480 --> 01:23:05,920
what we just got done talking about. If

2343
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:07,040
they said, "Well, we actually don't need

2344
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:08,000
that space. You just need

2345
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:14,000
>> well not 15 not 1550 each but the two combined to go up to 150

2346
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:14,480
>> some

2347
01:23:14,480 --> 01:23:17,840
>> with with specific cap

2348
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:19,600
>> again speaking just for myself I'm

2349
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:21,600
anticipating that this number is not

2350
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:23,600
going to be 27 it's probably going to be

2351
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,719
32 or I think all these numbers will go

2352
01:23:26,719 --> 01:23:30,239
up somewhat proportionally to reach 150

2353
01:23:30,239 --> 01:23:32,719
but there will be a number for these two

2354
01:23:32,719 --> 01:23:35,120
and a number for these four is what I'm

2355
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:35,520
>> yes

2356
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,000
>> contemplating. Yes.

2357
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:40,480
>> Right. Because that way we wouldn't be

2358
01:23:40,480 --> 01:23:43,040
adding just another

2359
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:46,239
um 39,000 to food and beverage to get up

2360
01:23:46,239 --> 01:23:47,120
to the 15.

2361
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:49,600
>> Right. Right. Right.

2362
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:50,800
>> All right. Should we take a vote on that

2363
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:52,320
then?

2364
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:53,760
Okay. Councelor Bogdan.

2365
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:54,239
>> Yes.

2366
01:23:54,239 --> 01:23:55,760
>> Councelor Whitlock.

2367
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:56,159
>> Yes.

2368
01:23:56,159 --> 01:23:57,840
>> Councelor McKay. Yes. Councelor

2369
01:23:57,840 --> 01:23:58,560
Christensen.

2370
01:23:58,560 --> 01:23:59,040
>> Yes.

2371
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:00,639
>> Councelor

2372
01:24:00,639 --> 01:24:01,280
Barrett.

2373
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:02,320
>> Yes.

2374
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:04,719
>> I almost called on you. Councelor

2375
01:24:04,719 --> 01:24:06,719
Whipple. Yes. And do we have Travis

2376
01:24:06,719 --> 01:24:07,760
still?

2377
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:08,480
>> Yes.

2378
01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:10,719
>> Hold.

2379
01:24:10,719 --> 01:24:12,639
>> Was there anything? So that passed 70.

2380
01:24:12,639 --> 01:24:13,840
Was there anything else we decided

2381
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:15,840
before taking a vote that that you were

2382
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:18,080
concerned about? I swear one more thing.

2383
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:22,080
Well, that was uh well, I guess the one

2384
01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:24,719
that comes to mind is I am anticipating,

2385
01:24:24,719 --> 01:24:25,920
even though you didn't make a motion on

2386
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:28,800
it, I am anticipating that we will

2387
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:30,400
incorporate what they have already

2388
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:33,040
offered about the 20,000

2389
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:35,120
uh seat limit and about the no tram

2390
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:36,239
thing. Since those were already

2391
01:24:36,239 --> 01:24:38,719
proposals by them,

2392
01:24:38,719 --> 01:24:39,920
>> I'm just assuming that we're going to

2393
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:41,280
incorporate those even though you didn't

2394
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:41,760
vote on it.

2395
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:42,239
>> Yes.

2396
01:24:42,239 --> 01:24:43,520
>> Those are the only things that I've

2397
01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:45,760
heard so far that the council

2398
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:48,159
affirmatively wants changed. Well, there

2399
01:24:48,159 --> 01:24:49,760
was not the moving to the parking that

2400
01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:51,520
the parking.

2401
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:52,800
>> Well, okay. Now, that's a good question

2402
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:54,719
because there wasn't a motion on that.

2403
01:24:54,719 --> 01:24:56,800
So, uh there were some opinions

2404
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:58,480
expressed. But if Oh, we got to go back

2405
01:24:58,480 --> 01:24:59,520
to my Yeah. Can you go back?

2406
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:01,440
>> That is one of the big sellers on the

2407
01:25:01,440 --> 01:25:05,760
parking is that hidden rock natural.

2408
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:09,040
Yeah. Invisible parking. Yeah.

2409
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:11,600
>> So, there wasn't a motion to change any

2410
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:15,040
of this. Now, let me actually go forward

2411
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:18,159
a little bit. I'm going to skip

2412
01:25:18,159 --> 01:25:20,960
Let's see.

2413
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:22,639
>> Would it be more appropriate to say that

2414
01:25:22,639 --> 01:25:25,120
there's no buildings or structures

2415
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:27,280
within because that still leaves a

2416
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:31,360
parking lot, but veget it's got to be

2417
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:33,600
screened by heavy vegetation and there's

2418
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:36,000
nothing within like I don't know 40 ft

2419
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,320
of the road or something like that.

2420
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:41,040
>> Those are all possibilities. Uh you

2421
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:42,800
know, Bill would have to Bill could

2422
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:44,320
discuss already what's already in the

2423
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:45,760
code that would apply to that. The other

2424
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:47,760
thing that occurs to me is maybe instead

2425
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:50,880
of changing paragraph three and somebody

2426
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:51,920
remind me after I get done with this

2427
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:53,520
that we skipped seven and I got to go

2428
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:56,080
back to seven. But um there's this

2429
01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:57,840
paragraph in it already which is about

2430
01:25:57,840 --> 01:25:59,760
designing materials and based on

2431
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:01,280
councelor Bogdan's comments about what

2432
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:04,000
her concern is. One possibility might be

2433
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:07,199
to add more language to this paragraph

2434
01:26:07,199 --> 01:26:10,560
about the parking garage about and where

2435
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:13,040
it specifies something about I don't

2436
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:15,440
know I'll rely on Bill and probably the

2437
01:26:15,440 --> 01:26:16,800
developers to think about how to

2438
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,040
actually say it but that the parking

2439
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:22,080
structure has to be enclosed and and

2440
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:22,960
meet design standards.

2441
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:24,480
>> Yes. Because that I would consider

2442
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:25,199
material.

2443
01:26:25,199 --> 01:26:25,520
>> Yeah.

2444
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:27,440
>> That that issue I think would be

2445
01:26:27,440 --> 01:26:28,880
material to most of us.

2446
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:29,840
>> Yes, I agree.

2447
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:31,280
>> Okay. So we good with that or do you

2448
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:33,600
need a motion? Uh I I actually had just

2449
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:34,159
a quick question.

2450
01:26:34,159 --> 01:26:35,120
>> Jeff has a question.

2451
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:37,040
>> I'm not opposed to it, but I just to

2452
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:38,639
help me understand a little better is

2453
01:26:38,639 --> 01:26:41,679
like so the

2454
01:26:41,679 --> 01:26:44,159
>> the agreement caps the parking. Does it

2455
01:26:44,159 --> 01:26:45,600
have a minimum amount of It has a

2456
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:46,960
minimum two. Correct.

2457
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:49,199
>> There's no minimum, but there is a

2458
01:26:49,199 --> 01:26:51,040
minimum required by city code.

2459
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:54,800
>> Code one out of four. So it's

2460
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:55,840
>> Say that again.

2461
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:57,600
>> Anyway, sorry. Keep going.

2462
01:26:57,600 --> 01:26:58,960
>> Yeah. Yeah. There's a minimum that's

2463
01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:00,639
going to be required by city code. We

2464
01:27:00,639 --> 01:27:02,239
don't know what that number is yet

2465
01:27:02,239 --> 01:27:05,040
because we don't have a final plan to

2466
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:07,440
base that number off of. My recollection

2467
01:27:07,440 --> 01:27:09,040
is that Aaron said last time it was

2468
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:11,040
around 5,500.

2469
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:11,360
>> Yes,

2470
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:12,320
>> more or less.

2471
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:13,520
>> But we don't know for certain.

2472
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:14,880
>> That was my understanding. So there's an

2473
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:16,960
effective minimum. So my question is on

2474
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:18,880
this motion is like when you look at the

2475
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:21,040
cap of the 15 acres, the effective

2476
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,990
minimum parking, the site layout, like

2477
01:27:23,990 --> 01:27:25,199
[snorts] is there really any other place

2478
01:27:25,199 --> 01:27:29,679
they could actually put the page? Like I don't know. I'm just wondering like

2479
01:27:29,679 --> 01:27:30,880
>> Bill could probably speak to that better

2480
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:31,280
than I can.

2481
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:32,159
>> I mean, they're going to have to put a

2482
01:27:32,159 --> 01:27:33,840
garage somewhere or else they can't meet

2483
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,880
the Rubik's cube of

2484
01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:39,679
>> Yeah. If technical says they can't build

2485
01:27:39,679 --> 01:27:41,440
the garage, then the project is

2486
01:27:41,440 --> 01:27:43,199
>> that's the depth of the project really

2487
01:27:43,199 --> 01:27:44,320
because there's no way to meet

2488
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:45,360
>> because you can build a parking

2489
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:47,920
structure on a fall.

2490
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:49,840
>> The parking structure is not an occupied

2491
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:51,600
building.

2492
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:52,719
>> It's more expensive. You're going to

2493
01:27:52,719 --> 01:27:54,239
build on top of a fault, but you can do

2494
01:27:54,239 --> 01:27:54,639
that.

2495
01:27:54,639 --> 01:27:56,480
>> Yeah. Oh man, the insurance for that if

2496
01:27:56,480 --> 01:27:58,159
all of those things collapsed on those

2497
01:27:58,159 --> 01:27:59,280
cars.

2498
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:01,440
>> The representation that's been made is

2499
01:28:01,440 --> 01:28:02,960
that the attractiveness about putting

2500
01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:04,159
the parking structure where they

2501
01:28:04,159 --> 01:28:06,639
proposed is that material they'll take

2502
01:28:06,639 --> 01:28:08,800
out of there is helpful to build the

2503
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:10,960
rest of the development. But if you're

2504
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:12,880
worried about that issue to me, put a

2505
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:14,639
setback on the parking structure. It

2506
01:28:14,639 --> 01:28:16,560
can't be within 100 ft of the road.

2507
01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:18,480
That's what you're worried about right

2508
01:28:18,480 --> 01:28:19,600
now.

2509
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:22,880
>> We do not want or 150 foot set back on

2510
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:23,760
parking structure.

2511
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:26,400
>> Yeah. And in the current plan, how far

2512
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:30,000
would that structure be from the road?

2513
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:31,360
Because what we'd be doing is

2514
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:32,880
constraining how much closer it could

2515
01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:34,960
get if it's necessary to shift it.

2516
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:36,400
Right. Because I don't think it's

2517
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:38,000
planned to be closer to the road than

2518
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:39,120
that.

2519
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:40,719
>> Yeah. If it's right there.

2520
01:28:40,719 --> 01:28:44,159
>> Well, conceptually, no. Reality.

2521
01:28:44,159 --> 01:28:48,390
>> Right. No.

2522
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:50,000
And I don't know that I guess I would

2523
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:51,840
say this in the interest of because I

2524
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:52,880
know there's a lot of details and we're

2525
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:53,840
going to have to work some stuff out,

2526
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:57,120
but I don't know that we necessarily

2527
01:28:57,120 --> 01:29:00,480
have to determine every number in this

2528
01:29:00,480 --> 01:29:02,960
meeting. But

2529
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:04,480
>> but for example, with this one, if

2530
01:29:04,480 --> 01:29:07,600
somebody were to be make a motion saying

2531
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,040
in consultation with development

2532
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:10,480
services, we want there to be in the

2533
01:29:10,480 --> 01:29:12,000
development agreement a setback on the

2534
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:13,920
parking structure from the road, then

2535
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:15,280
that gives us the direction we know. We

2536
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:17,760
need to go work that out.

2537
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:19,679
Okay. So, Bill, what about the

2538
01:29:19,679 --> 01:29:21,920
screening? What about the plants on the

2539
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:25,520
road? What what's their code say there?

2540
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:27,920
>> The SC3 doesn't have a lot in terms of

2541
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:30,719
screening. Um because the site generally

2542
01:29:30,719 --> 01:29:32,000
will sit at the bottom of the road,

2543
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:33,840
right? It's just that change in

2544
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:35,360
elevation and landscaping that will take

2545
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:37,679
place between the road and the first

2546
01:29:37,679 --> 01:29:40,560
parking. That's going to provide pretty

2547
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:42,000
good screening anyway. There is a

2548
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:42,560
section on that

2549
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:44,159
>> that

2550
01:29:44,159 --> 01:29:46,080
is pictures they the pictures they've

2551
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:48,719
put forth the screen look amazing is

2552
01:29:48,719 --> 01:29:50,159
that part of the concept plan like

2553
01:29:50,159 --> 01:29:51,760
that's something that can be

2554
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:53,520
>> parted on. So okay.

2555
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:54,159
>> Yeah.

2556
01:29:54,159 --> 01:29:55,600
>> And that has to be maintained

2557
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:57,280
>> together with the concept and and this

2558
01:29:57,280 --> 01:29:59,679
paragraph also again uh talks about both

2559
01:29:59,679 --> 01:30:00,960
screen and it also talks about

2560
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,040
integration of the site. I mean again

2561
01:30:03,040 --> 01:30:04,719
not opposed to any clarity that the

2562
01:30:04,719 --> 01:30:06,800
council wants but frankly between this

2563
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:09,120
paragraph and the concept plan I don't

2564
01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:11,360
think that bill could put the parking

2565
01:30:11,360 --> 01:30:12,800
structure on the other side of the

2566
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:14,159
property because it's got to be

2567
01:30:14,159 --> 01:30:16,320
integrated into the uh into the

2568
01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:18,080
topography.

2569
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:20,159
I have one other followup question

2570
01:30:20,159 --> 01:30:24,000
related to this line of discussion. So

2571
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:25,600
the and it could be related to what we

2572
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:29,840
were just talking about, but like the documentation permits the

2573
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:31,280
underground parking lot, but I didn't

2574
01:30:31,280 --> 01:30:33,360
see anywhere like explicitly requires

2575
01:30:33,360 --> 01:30:35,679
it. Is that because it's implied by the

2576
01:30:35,679 --> 01:30:44,639
>> it's implied by the it's implied by the this combined with the minimum

2577
01:30:44,639 --> 01:30:46,480
limit. That's kind of what I was saying

2578
01:30:46,480 --> 01:30:48,159
before is like there but couldn't they

2579
01:30:48,159 --> 01:30:49,760
do above ground? Like why why would that

2580
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:50,000
be?

2581
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:52,239
>> But then we've got the height limit cap.

2582
01:30:52,239 --> 01:30:55,280
>> So is that where the operative

2583
01:30:55,280 --> 01:30:56,719
>> that's a good question, Bill. If they if

2584
01:30:56,719 --> 01:30:58,960
they I mean if they built

2585
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:00,880
>> 15 acres of

2586
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:01,600
>> above ground

2587
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:03,199
>> threetory

2588
01:31:03,199 --> 01:31:03,760
parking

2589
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:04,880
>> they might hit the

2590
01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:06,960
>> How many parking spaces could they get?

2591
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:09,520
I I don't know the answer to that.

2592
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:11,600
>> Sorry. I just I was just that's just my

2593
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:12,560
question around this whole

2594
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:14,880
>> Well, again, I mean, if if you want if

2595
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:16,400
that if that's what you want in there.

2596
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:19,040
Again, this is your agreement. I'm happy

2597
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:22,639
to put anything in here you want.

2598
01:31:22,639 --> 01:31:25,040
>> Well, I I again, I think this is

2599
01:31:25,040 --> 01:31:26,560
material because part of what we're

2600
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:28,800
trying to do is preserve the aesthetics.

2601
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:29,120
Yeah.

2602
01:31:29,120 --> 01:31:30,800
>> And everyone agrees on aesthetics until

2603
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:32,639
the invoice comes through.

2604
01:31:32,639 --> 01:31:35,679
>> So, that's the rub. Um, I would feel

2605
01:31:35,679 --> 01:31:37,920
much more comfortable if we were very

2606
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:39,600
clear about sub because everything we've

2607
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:41,600
heard so far is subterranean parking.

2608
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:43,440
So, I'm anticipating, in fact, until we

2609
01:31:43,440 --> 01:31:44,480
actually got to this, I had even

2610
01:31:44,480 --> 01:31:46,000
realized, oh my goodness, this could

2611
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:48,880
actually end up, you know, as tall as it

2612
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:50,880
can get in a place where you don't want

2613
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:54,800
to look at it because that's more so

2614
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:56,400
we're trying to balance it. I would feel

2615
01:31:56,400 --> 01:31:58,719
more comfortable if we actually

2616
01:31:58,719 --> 01:32:01,760
specified subtraining parking.

2617
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:03,040
>> You want to make a motion? Yeah, I'll

2618
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:04,159
make a motion that

2619
01:32:04,159 --> 01:32:05,840
>> Yeah, here's here's the challenge. I I

2620
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:07,360
don't know specifically what was the

2621
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:08,320
motions made. I think

2622
01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:11,199
>> I I specifically don't know I I don't

2623
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:12,960
know the specifics other than Yeah,

2624
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:14,400
let's do subterranean. All right. Well,

2625
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:16,480
you got two. They're way down.

2626
01:32:16,480 --> 01:32:18,080
>> It's not all subterranean. It goes up.

2627
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:19,840
>> Well, I know, but I

2628
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:20,239
>> Yeah,

2629
01:32:20,239 --> 01:32:21,360
>> I don't even know how to make a motion

2630
01:32:21,360 --> 01:32:21,679
here.

2631
01:32:21,679 --> 01:32:23,360
>> Right. Well, and let's think through it

2632
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:25,360
because the proposal is to have the 15

2633
01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:27,199
acres of surface parking

2634
01:32:27,199 --> 01:32:29,760
>> and a subterranean essentially garage.

2635
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:31,679
that may come up a little bit, but it's

2636
01:32:31,679 --> 01:32:34,400
tucked in somehow. But they've also got

2637
01:32:34,400 --> 01:32:37,600
in the proposal that if that ends up not

2638
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:39,520
being enough parking and they need to

2639
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:41,360
build up that they would take one of the

2640
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:43,120
surface lots and put a second layer

2641
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:46,719
above it. And so are you opposed to like

2642
01:32:46,719 --> 01:32:48,639
a double-decker parking area?

2643
01:32:48,639 --> 01:32:51,440
>> Yeah, I' I'd prefer not to have that. I

2644
01:32:51,440 --> 01:32:52,800
would prefer to put as much in the

2645
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:54,320
ground as we can to preserve the

2646
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:56,480
aesthetics of the entrance of the plane.

2647
01:32:56,480 --> 01:32:59,120
So those aesthetics are important to me

2648
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:00,400
>> because that sounded like they were

2649
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:02,159
going to do sort of like a split level

2650
01:33:02,159 --> 01:33:04,000
situation where they'd go down four feet

2651
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:05,840
and so it would be up a little bit. I

2652
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:08,480
think that could be screened in a way

2653
01:33:08,480 --> 01:33:11,040
and incorporated but I don't know. And

2654
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:14,800
the real question is if you're okay with

2655
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:17,840
that kind of of expansion, would you

2656
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:19,600
want to limit that and say well you

2657
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:22,000
absolutely can't do two layers. I guess

2658
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:25,040
representations to this point are that

2659
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:27,360
we're going to have but a lot of this

2660
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:28,400
subterranean.

2661
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:29,280
>> Mhm.

2662
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:32,800
>> Um it's one thing if a good chunk of it

2663
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:35,280
is subterranean and then whatever kind

2664
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:37,360
of you don't need 8,000, you actually

2665
01:33:37,360 --> 01:33:40,239
need 10. Okay. That's different than

2666
01:33:40,239 --> 01:33:41,840
let's put in minimal subterranean which

2667
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:43,120
is also more expensive,

2668
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:43,679
>> right?

2669
01:33:43,679 --> 01:33:45,440
>> And then we start putting in double

2670
01:33:45,440 --> 01:33:49,840
deckers everywhere there's parking. That to me is a that's a different

2671
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:52,000
>> the real idea is that you couldn't do

2672
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:54,239
double-decker on the surface parking if

2673
01:33:54,239 --> 01:33:56,239
you haven't already built the

2674
01:33:56,239 --> 01:33:57,679
subterranean.

2675
01:33:57,679 --> 01:33:59,520
>> Yes. And I don't know how to articulate

2676
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:02,239
the sub subterranean. [laughter]

2677
01:34:02,239 --> 01:34:04,480
>> Yeah. Well, I I think at this point I

2678
01:34:04,480 --> 01:34:06,560
thought sorry I thought you had a motion

2679
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:08,080
already in mind. I think at this point

2680
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:09,440
it's probably actually useful to hear

2681
01:34:09,440 --> 01:34:11,280
from the developer and they've heard

2682
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:12,880
your concerns. Now, I think it'd be

2683
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:14,480
useful for them to stand up and say,

2684
01:34:14,480 --> 01:34:16,159
"Here's what we think we can commit to

2685
01:34:16,159 --> 01:34:18,080
that would address the concerns we've

2686
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:19,679
heard." The one thing I will say before

2687
01:34:19,679 --> 01:34:22,000
Brian stands up is that at one point we

2688
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:24,560
had actually talked about having a

2689
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:26,719
percentage of subterranean and a

2690
01:34:26,719 --> 01:34:31,199
percentage of um of surface. We went

2691
01:34:31,199 --> 01:34:34,080
with this pretty much for I like the 15

2692
01:34:34,080 --> 01:34:37,760
acres of of surface was intended to to

2693
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:39,760
mean the same thing. We just didn't put

2694
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:41,199
them both in. So, we could always go

2695
01:34:41,199 --> 01:34:43,040
back to that model, but Brian,

2696
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:45,520
>> yeah, is there can um can we just back

2697
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:47,679
up maybe a couple steps? I think these

2698
01:34:47,679 --> 01:34:49,520
are all really important questions to

2699
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:51,760
consider. I think there's been quite a

2700
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:53,920
bit of like movement in the project from

2701
01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:57,040
the original 10,000 cap to the 8,000.

2702
01:34:57,040 --> 01:34:58,480
And then I think the biggest change

2703
01:34:58,480 --> 01:35:00,159
that's happened in the last probably 3

2704
01:35:00,159 --> 01:35:02,159
weeks has been this idea, well, not 3

2705
01:35:02,159 --> 01:35:03,199
weeks, probably been a month and a half

2706
01:35:03,199 --> 01:35:05,520
now, but just the off-site parking. So

2707
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:07,040
that's not really a concept that we

2708
01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:09,360
really even considered in the in the

2709
01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:11,360
language of the development agreement.

2710
01:35:11,360 --> 01:35:13,520
So I think if if there was a way for us

2711
01:35:13,520 --> 01:35:15,199
to conceptually take a step back and say

2712
01:35:15,199 --> 01:35:16,719
what is our commitment and what what do

2713
01:35:16,719 --> 01:35:18,320
we both expect? What does the city

2714
01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:19,840
expect and what we what are we

2715
01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:21,520
committing to? I think the first thing

2716
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:22,880
is number one is that it will be

2717
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:24,239
screened from the road. So that's an

2718
01:35:24,239 --> 01:35:26,080
incredibly important commitment. I think

2719
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:27,199
that's already contained in the

2720
01:35:27,199 --> 01:35:28,239
development agreement.

2721
01:35:28,239 --> 01:35:30,639
>> So that's number one. Number two, um, as

2722
01:35:30,639 --> 01:35:34,400
we've talked about offsite, um, I do

2723
01:35:34,400 --> 01:35:36,400
feel like there's our hope would be that

2724
01:35:36,400 --> 01:35:37,760
we could add language in here that would

2725
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:40,000
allow us to go below the the this the

2726
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:42,320
55. We actually with Aaron I we

2727
01:35:42,320 --> 01:35:45,360
calculated 5180 was the based on the

2728
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:46,719
square footage of the numbers that we

2729
01:35:46,719 --> 01:35:47,679
were just talking about because that's

2730
01:35:47,679 --> 01:35:49,360
what drives the parking. We actually

2731
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:51,280
talked about 5180 being the minimum

2732
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:53,360
requirement. We would love the ability

2733
01:35:53,360 --> 01:35:55,600
if we can find several thousand off-site

2734
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:57,600
stalls to be able to reduce that below

2735
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:00,080
the 5180 on-site. So, that's an

2736
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:01,440
important component that we would we

2737
01:36:01,440 --> 01:36:03,520
would request the council to consider as

2738
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:05,520
part of this conversation.

2739
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:08,000
Um, and then thirdly, I think uh it's

2740
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:09,920
this second this double-decker idea that

2741
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:11,840
we've been talking about. Um, let me

2742
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:13,040
make sure I'm really really clear on

2743
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:14,159
that because I want to make sure I'm

2744
01:36:14,159 --> 01:36:15,760
understanding what your concerns are.

2745
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:17,280
The idea would be that that would

2746
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:19,280
effectively look like a surface parking

2747
01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:21,120
lot. So we would have surface parking

2748
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:22,800
that would be at grade and then if we

2749
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:24,400
were to put something like a double

2750
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:26,320
decker if if for example after the after

2751
01:36:26,320 --> 01:36:28,480
the project or after the after vesper is

2752
01:36:28,480 --> 01:36:30,400
built we recognize we need another 500

2753
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:32,639
stalls we would come in and lower that

2754
01:36:32,639 --> 01:36:35,280
parking stall probably 3 to 4 feet and

2755
01:36:35,280 --> 01:36:36,719
then build something on top of that. So

2756
01:36:36,719 --> 01:36:38,560
the effective height above ground would

2757
01:36:38,560 --> 01:36:41,280
be 3 to 4 feet. So my hope would be that

2758
01:36:41,280 --> 01:36:42,880
we could kind of lock in the

2759
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:45,679
expectations on that to to Greg's point.

2760
01:36:45,679 --> 01:36:48,400
Like I I I wanted we need the ability to

2761
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:50,320
expand that parking. That's very very

2762
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:52,400
important for us. And so if there were

2763
01:36:52,400 --> 01:36:54,320
some design criteria that would allow us

2764
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:56,400
then as long as we met that criteria to

2765
01:36:56,400 --> 01:36:58,159
build that additional parking that would

2766
01:36:58,159 --> 01:36:59,600
be our preference is to include that

2767
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:01,440
language in there. So there would be a

2768
01:37:01,440 --> 01:37:03,199
way to say you know it cannot exceed you

2769
01:37:03,199 --> 01:37:05,520
know let's just say 5t above grade or

2770
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:07,119
above the existing surface parking lot.

2771
01:37:07,119 --> 01:37:09,040
how it require us to go down in order to

2772
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:10,239
get the height needed to build that

2773
01:37:10,239 --> 01:37:12,320
second story of parking. So, I would

2774
01:37:12,320 --> 01:37:13,840
love to make sure that's part of this

2775
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:15,840
component. So, that's a long-winded

2776
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:16,880
answer. I don't know that it

2777
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:18,080
specifically addresses.

2778
01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:19,600
>> Well, can you that's helpful. Can you

2779
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:21,920
speak to the uh parking garage and

2780
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:22,800
subterranean?

2781
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:26,159
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um every stall that we

2782
01:37:26,159 --> 01:37:27,679
can get out of that parking structure

2783
01:37:27,679 --> 01:37:29,440
and put somewhere else is going to save

2784
01:37:29,440 --> 01:37:31,520
us a tremendous amount of money. So,

2785
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:33,199
your concerns are warranted. They're

2786
01:37:33,199 --> 01:37:36,400
valid. um in order to get in order to

2787
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:38,159
get the the parking that we need, we

2788
01:37:38,159 --> 01:37:39,600
have to do a subterranean and we are

2789
01:37:39,600 --> 01:37:41,199
motivated to do that because we need the

2790
01:37:41,199 --> 01:37:42,239
material that's coming out of that

2791
01:37:42,239 --> 01:37:43,840
mountain. Whoever said that, I think it

2792
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:45,760
was Bill or maybe even Brian, but we

2793
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:47,520
need that material in a desperate way to

2794
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:49,760
build that to make it work. So, we are

2795
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:52,000
very motivated to put it in that spot

2796
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:54,159
and pull that material out. So, we are

2797
01:37:54,159 --> 01:37:55,600
committed, we will absolutely commit to

2798
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:57,119
doing subterranean parking in that

2799
01:37:57,119 --> 01:37:59,440
location. How much and to what height?

2800
01:37:59,440 --> 01:38:02,239
We can't exceed the 70 uh the 50 I think

2801
01:38:02,239 --> 01:38:05,360
it's 50 50. Yeah, three stories or 50

2802
01:38:05,360 --> 01:38:07,520
ft. Um, so yeah, that's exactly right,

2803
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:09,360
Jeff. So, we're we're we're able to

2804
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:11,440
commit to that. Um, and if we need to go

2805
01:38:11,440 --> 01:38:13,040
down further, it would be above three

2806
01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:14,159
stories, but it would be down on the

2807
01:38:14,159 --> 01:38:15,199
ground. And so, that would not be

2808
01:38:15,199 --> 01:38:18,239
effective height in terms of um, so yes,

2809
01:38:18,239 --> 01:38:19,679
we are willing to make that commitment.

2810
01:38:19,679 --> 01:38:20,960
We're ready to make that commitment to a

2811
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:23,360
subterranean. The distance from the road

2812
01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:25,679
becomes a little bit more problematic.

2813
01:38:25,679 --> 01:38:27,679
Um, we can't get super close to the

2814
01:38:27,679 --> 01:38:29,119
road, but I don't know exactly what that

2815
01:38:29,119 --> 01:38:30,960
spacing would be. But if we could maybe

2816
01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:32,880
leave a blank in there for the offsite,

2817
01:38:32,880 --> 01:38:34,719
the offset from the road to address

2818
01:38:34,719 --> 01:38:36,880
Becky's concern, I think that's valid. I

2819
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:38,639
think we'd be willing to talk about both

2820
01:38:38,639 --> 01:38:40,800
a a subterranean like like Greg has

2821
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:42,480
talked about and then an offset from the

2822
01:38:42,480 --> 01:38:44,400
road that Becky just talked about. And I

2823
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:45,920
think 100 feet would be something that

2824
01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:48,560
we could commit to right now. Um, but uh

2825
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:50,000
but we may need to go back and kind of

2826
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:51,920
adjust those numbers down the road.

2827
01:38:51,920 --> 01:38:53,040
>> So that's a lot. So

2828
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:53,600
>> two questions.

2829
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:55,280
>> Yeah, please. with your subterranean.

2830
01:38:55,280 --> 01:38:57,360
Um, so that's at rock face,

2831
01:38:57,360 --> 01:38:58,960
>> right?

2832
01:38:58,960 --> 01:39:02,480
>> Is that rock face not over three stories

2833
01:39:02,480 --> 01:39:03,440
high?

2834
01:39:03,440 --> 01:39:05,040
>> Well, so the way that they measure the

2835
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:08,320
street, so that height that 50 ft is

2836
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:09,679
measured from the foundation of the

2837
01:39:09,679 --> 01:39:10,639
building.

2838
01:39:10,639 --> 01:39:12,053
>> So we could mess with the land.

2839
01:39:12,053 --> 01:39:12,320
[clears throat]

2840
01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:13,360
>> Exactly.

2841
01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:15,040
>> Yeah. So we could effectively go down

2842
01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:17,360
and that wouldn't impact where the 50 ft

2843
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:20,320
starts, but our 50 ft design and you

2844
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:21,760
correct me if I'm wrong, but it's from

2845
01:39:21,760 --> 01:39:23,040
where the foundation touches the

2846
01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:25,199
building. That's where our 50 height 50

2847
01:39:25,199 --> 01:39:26,719
foot height requirements starts.

2848
01:39:26,719 --> 01:39:28,239
>> We don't want you to waste like 20 feet

2849
01:39:28,239 --> 01:39:28,880
at the top.

2850
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:30,719
>> Exactly. Exactly. No, we want to put the

2851
01:39:30,719 --> 01:39:32,639
parking structure in that same spot

2852
01:39:32,639 --> 01:39:34,080
>> so it doesn't go over 50 ft.

2853
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:37,280
>> It will not go over 50. Yeah. Yeah. So

2854
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:38,960
hopefully that's helpful as we talk

2855
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:40,480
about. But and the motion I think that

2856
01:39:40,480 --> 01:39:42,960
we would be um you know readily willing

2857
01:39:42,960 --> 01:39:44,800
to commit to would be yes subterranean.

2858
01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:47,520
Absolutely. Um we would like to have the

2859
01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:48,800
language in there to be able to do the

2860
01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:50,239
surface parking as long as we don't

2861
01:39:50,239 --> 01:39:52,080
exceed some height. I think 5t is

2862
01:39:52,080 --> 01:39:53,360
reasonable. It doesn't make it look like

2863
01:39:53,360 --> 01:39:55,199
it's a second story or first story of

2864
01:39:55,199 --> 01:39:56,719
parking. And then we would have the

2865
01:39:56,719 --> 01:39:58,560
ability to go below the minimum required

2866
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:00,400
parking. Again, these aren't all things

2867
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:02,239
that we need a motion on today. We would

2868
01:40:02,239 --> 01:40:03,600
propose this. I don't want anybody here

2869
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:05,679
to be uh surprised by anything we submit

2870
01:40:05,679 --> 01:40:07,280
in our next round, but that would be

2871
01:40:07,280 --> 01:40:08,560
something that we would really want to

2872
01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:10,639
include in there is to say that we could

2873
01:40:10,639 --> 01:40:12,159
do that second parking

2874
01:40:12,159 --> 01:40:13,760
>> parking

2875
01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:14,560
contract.

2876
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:17,554
>> Yes. Yes, that's right. Yeah, exactly.

2877
01:40:17,554 --> 01:40:20,950
[clears throat]

2878
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:22,080
» Okay. Okay. So, that's that's a good

2879
01:40:22,080 --> 01:40:24,080
point. So, um Spencer brings up the

2880
01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:25,360
point, is there any way to pull the

2881
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:26,320
sideline again, Kevin?

2882
01:40:26,320 --> 01:40:27,679
>> But I don't think it matters if it's a

2883
01:40:27,679 --> 01:40:28,320
mountain.

2884
01:40:28,320 --> 01:40:28,639
>> Yes.

2885
01:40:28,639 --> 01:40:30,080
>> You don't care about that big setback.

2886
01:40:30,080 --> 01:40:31,360
>> I I think there's a there's a bridge

2887
01:40:31,360 --> 01:40:32,960
where you need a gap and I think um

2888
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:36,000
Spencer's raised it well. Um the parking

2889
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:39,360
structure location can I go up to the

2890
01:40:39,360 --> 01:40:41,840
map up there? The parking structure

2891
01:40:41,840 --> 01:40:45,280
location may um be closer than 100 ft.

2892
01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:46,639
Like for example, this setback right

2893
01:40:46,639 --> 01:40:46,880
here,

2894
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:48,080
>> but that's where the rock is.

2895
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:50,080
>> This setback right here. Whoa. This

2896
01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:51,360
setback right here. Does it kill you

2897
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:53,280
every time? All right. That so that set

2898
01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:55,199
back right there maybe closer than 100

2899
01:40:55,199 --> 01:40:57,520
ft or Brian even on the corner down

2900
01:40:57,520 --> 01:40:59,040
below. That's what I'm talking you're

2901
01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:00,960
talking about right here. So this this

2902
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:03,679
would be to to me it's got to be

2903
01:41:03,679 --> 01:41:05,440
something. I'm not sure where that 100

2904
01:41:05,440 --> 01:41:06,880
feet starts. But yes,

2905
01:41:06,880 --> 01:41:08,400
>> but you have the natural screen there.

2906
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:09,360
Like we don't care about that.

2907
01:41:09,360 --> 01:41:11,040
>> We haven't that that to me is that's the

2908
01:41:11,040 --> 01:41:12,639
point Krice that I was trying to make.

2909
01:41:12,639 --> 01:41:13,920
>> We're talking about if you couldn't put

2910
01:41:13,920 --> 01:41:16,400
it there like then it's the wor any

2911
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:18,320
exposed. Correct. Yeah. So like this

2912
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:19,760
stuff over here. Yes. This is going to

2913
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:22,000
be exposed. It's going to be visible.

2914
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:23,360
And that's the piece that we would say

2915
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:24,719
yes, we're going to meet that 100 foot

2916
01:41:24,719 --> 01:41:26,320
requirement. But if there's some part of

2917
01:41:26,320 --> 01:41:27,760
this parking structure that's within 100

2918
01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:30,400
foot setback that's not visible, then I

2919
01:41:30,400 --> 01:41:32,480
think we should be able to again my

2920
01:41:32,480 --> 01:41:33,760
request would be that we we're able to

2921
01:41:33,760 --> 01:41:35,280
encroach in that 100t.

2922
01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:36,400
>> Be careful with your terms because you

2923
01:41:36,400 --> 01:41:38,400
keep saying subterranean, but part of

2924
01:41:38,400 --> 01:41:40,000
that structure you'll be able to see all

2925
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:40,880
three.

2926
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:41,600
>> Yes. Yeah.

2927
01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:43,280
>> Right. Okay. Just want to make sure.

2928
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:44,719
>> Well, you weren't reading the whole

2929
01:41:44,719 --> 01:41:45,199
thing.

2930
01:41:45,199 --> 01:41:47,040
>> That's why it's it's difficult to see

2931
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:49,760
from this angle. um much more helpful to

2932
01:41:49,760 --> 01:41:51,600
actually see from the the great

2933
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:52,320
elevation.

2934
01:41:52,320 --> 01:41:54,080
>> Yeah. Can we pull that one?

2935
01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:56,080
>> Because I I can't remember exactly where

2936
01:41:56,080 --> 01:41:57,600
the hillside is and

2937
01:41:57,600 --> 01:41:59,679
>> yes how that is that what you're

2938
01:41:59,679 --> 01:42:00,159
referring to.

2939
01:42:00,159 --> 01:42:01,760
>> So there's an elevation.

2940
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:05,119
>> If you see the landscape one

2941
01:42:05,119 --> 01:42:06,719
should be it should be in that exhibit.

2942
01:42:06,719 --> 01:42:08,000
>> Those were the two that were

2943
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:10,800
>> I think it uh it's it may not be in this

2944
01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:12,239
one. It's in the other one though for

2945
01:42:12,239 --> 01:42:14,480
sure.

2946
01:42:14,480 --> 01:42:15,679
>> Yeah. Yeah, the answer one that we just

2947
01:42:15,679 --> 01:42:23,430
submitted this last week.

2948
01:42:23,440 --> 01:42:25,199
» While he's looking for that, let me make

2949
01:42:25,199 --> 01:42:27,040
two comments. Uh, sorry, BL, you could

2950
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:30,400
you were okay there. I was going to uh

2951
01:42:30,400 --> 01:42:32,400
the idea we've talked before about this

2952
01:42:32,400 --> 01:42:35,920
idea of reducing the the minimum

2953
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:37,840
required below the code if there's

2954
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:40,880
sufficient offsite. The one legal

2955
01:42:40,880 --> 01:42:43,040
problem with that is that the

2956
01:42:43,040 --> 01:42:45,119
development agreement can't exempt you

2957
01:42:45,119 --> 01:42:48,400
from code unless the exemption has been

2958
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:50,320
before the planning commission. So I

2959
01:42:50,320 --> 01:42:52,159
think that I think I at least and I

2960
01:42:52,159 --> 01:42:53,920
expect the council is very open to that

2961
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:56,080
idea. It will probably that particular

2962
01:42:56,080 --> 01:42:58,320
idea will probably require an amendment

2963
01:42:58,320 --> 01:42:59,920
to the development agreement in the

2964
01:42:59,920 --> 01:43:03,360
future just to address that issue or a

2965
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:06,320
change to city code where we put

2966
01:43:06,320 --> 01:43:09,679
something like the TDM or a TDM overlay

2967
01:43:09,679 --> 01:43:11,840
back in and give them an exemption

2968
01:43:11,840 --> 01:43:13,280
through a code amendment. So, that's

2969
01:43:13,280 --> 01:43:15,280
probably going to have something that

2970
01:43:15,280 --> 01:43:16,400
won't

2971
01:43:16,400 --> 01:43:18,800
>> be able to be in here in two weeks.

2972
01:43:18,800 --> 01:43:20,480
>> That makes sense. Uh, and then the other

2973
01:43:20,480 --> 01:43:22,400
question is that I have for you while

2974
01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:23,920
you're while you're talking based on

2975
01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:27,520
what I heard counselor um Christensen

2976
01:43:27,520 --> 01:43:29,600
saying is

2977
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:32,159
you talked about uh being willing to

2978
01:43:32,159 --> 01:43:34,400
commit to subterranean but it being very

2979
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:36,719
important to uh have the ability to

2980
01:43:36,719 --> 01:43:39,280
build that upper deck. I think what what

2981
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:41,520
I kind of hear counselor Christensen

2982
01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:45,040
saying is that ability to build the

2983
01:43:45,040 --> 01:43:47,040
upper deck might need to be contingent

2984
01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:48,400
not just on the height and the

2985
01:43:48,400 --> 01:43:49,440
screening,

2986
01:43:49,440 --> 01:43:52,080
>> but on the fact that the subterranean

2987
01:43:52,080 --> 01:43:56,239
meets some kind of certain limit. Like I think what I hear you saying is you

2988
01:43:56,239 --> 01:43:58,719
don't want them to build a one-story

2989
01:43:58,719 --> 01:44:01,840
subterranean parking garage, put a whole

2990
01:44:01,840 --> 01:44:04,320
bunch of spaces offsite, and then build

2991
01:44:04,320 --> 01:44:07,119
15 acres of double-decker surface

2992
01:44:07,119 --> 01:44:08,000
parking. Yeah,

2993
01:44:08,000 --> 01:44:08,719
>> correct.

2994
01:44:08,719 --> 01:44:10,400
>> So, for something for you to think about

2995
01:44:10,400 --> 01:44:11,600
as we talk through that,

2996
01:44:11,600 --> 01:44:13,119
>> I'd have to chew on that one for a

2997
01:44:13,119 --> 01:44:13,360
minute.

2998
01:44:13,360 --> 01:44:15,600
>> And again, I'm not I'm not expecting you

2999
01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:18,080
to know the answer here. I want to put

3000
01:44:18,080 --> 01:44:19,679
in your mind that I think that's what's

3001
01:44:19,679 --> 01:44:21,360
what something a concept that's probably

3002
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:22,719
going to be in the motion when we get to

3003
01:44:22,719 --> 01:44:22,960
it.

3004
01:44:22,960 --> 01:44:24,320
>> Okay, Jeff has a question.

3005
01:44:24,320 --> 01:44:26,159
>> Uh more just a comment. Just did like

3006
01:44:26,159 --> 01:44:27,920
quick back the envelope math and you

3007
01:44:27,920 --> 01:44:30,400
could probably fit four to 5,000 parking

3008
01:44:30,400 --> 01:44:33,360
spots on 50 acres at three stories. So I

3009
01:44:33,360 --> 01:44:35,760
think that's like I again I'm not I well

3010
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:37,040
I the representation

3011
01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:38,400
>> we talked about doing double decker so

3012
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:40,639
maybe that's another limit that we the

3013
01:44:40,639 --> 01:44:42,239
overall limit is three stories but the

3014
01:44:42,239 --> 01:44:44,159
parking can't be three the surface

3015
01:44:44,159 --> 01:44:44,639
parking

3016
01:44:44,639 --> 01:44:45,760
>> yeah it's again I don't think we're

3017
01:44:45,760 --> 01:44:47,119
actually asking or talking about

3018
01:44:47,119 --> 01:44:48,239
anything other than what's being

3019
01:44:48,239 --> 01:44:49,600
represented it's just the challenge of

3020
01:44:49,600 --> 01:44:51,199
like hey this is more expensive than we

3021
01:44:51,199 --> 01:44:52,080
think

3022
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:54,800
>> we have these other abilities to put 15

3023
01:44:54,800 --> 01:44:56,320
acres of triple deckers and we meet our

3024
01:44:56,320 --> 01:44:58,480
minimum parking requirement and I think

3025
01:44:58,480 --> 01:45:01,600
that would be not ideal outcome based on

3026
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:03,199
what's being presented

3027
01:45:03,199 --> 01:45:05,360
Well, and wasn't the idea that the

3028
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:06,960
double-decker parking would only be for

3029
01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:08,480
one of the lots, not for the one that's

3030
01:45:08,480 --> 01:45:09,119
up the hill?

3031
01:45:09,119 --> 01:45:10,400
>> Yeah, that's the other thing. It's only

3032
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:11,440
supposed to be about surface talk,

3033
01:45:11,440 --> 01:45:12,960
correct? Not the up.

3034
01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:14,159
>> Correct. Yeah, the one the one up the

3035
01:45:14,159 --> 01:45:15,520
hill would be a lot harder to to make

3036
01:45:15,520 --> 01:45:20,000
that work. Um, these are all really good things that we need to kind

3037
01:45:20,000 --> 01:45:22,159
of think through. I don't know. I I I

3038
01:45:22,159 --> 01:45:24,800
guess if we can provide uh a motion that

3039
01:45:24,800 --> 01:45:26,400
allows us the flexibility to go back and

3040
01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:27,520
kind of analyze some of these things

3041
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:29,280
because Craig, I hear you loud and clear

3042
01:45:29,280 --> 01:45:31,040
and that makes a lot of sense. So, we

3043
01:45:31,040 --> 01:45:32,560
would love to try to accommodate

3044
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:34,320
something that seems reasonable, um,

3045
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:35,600
while still allowing the flexibility

3046
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:36,960
that we're that we're hoping to maintain

3047
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:38,400
as we move forward and kind of finalize

3048
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:42,239
those off-site stalls. Um, so, uh, I I

3049
01:45:42,239 --> 01:45:44,960
I'm just anxious to see it locked in.

3050
01:45:44,960 --> 01:45:45,360
>> Yeah.

3051
01:45:45,360 --> 01:45:47,119
>> Because what you're asking for is locked

3052
01:45:47,119 --> 01:45:48,000
in zoning.

3053
01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:48,480
>> Yeah.

3054
01:45:48,480 --> 01:45:50,880
>> And so, I think what I'm asking for is

3055
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:54,800
the locked in um, capacity levels. So,

3056
01:45:54,800 --> 01:45:56,880
it's not up for debate. It's not up for

3057
01:45:56,880 --> 01:45:57,199
Yeah.

3058
01:45:57,199 --> 01:45:58,800
>> special assignment. that that's that's

3059
01:45:58,800 --> 01:46:00,400
our clear understanding as we go into

3060
01:46:00,400 --> 01:46:00,719
this.

3061
01:46:00,719 --> 01:46:01,600
>> Makes sense.

3062
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:03,760
>> And I think uh you made an interesting

3063
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:06,080
point of like just trying to be as

3064
01:46:06,080 --> 01:46:07,360
helpful here as possible is like you

3065
01:46:07,360 --> 01:46:09,840
said we may be open to the off-site

3066
01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:11,199
thing. Is that something worth taking a

3067
01:46:11,199 --> 01:46:12,880
motion on so that there's clear guid

3068
01:46:12,880 --> 01:46:14,800
like what's the best way to meet the

3069
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:16,480
needs here of that point?

3070
01:46:16,480 --> 01:46:18,400
>> Um

3071
01:46:18,400 --> 01:46:20,400
I suppose it's helpful probably just for

3072
01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:22,080
the developer to know how the council

3073
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:23,920
feels about it. I don't think because of

3074
01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:28,000
what I explained about the legalities of not being able to exempt them from

3075
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:29,920
the code. I don't think we're making any

3076
01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:32,320
decisions about that. But if you think

3077
01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:34,480
but if the developer wants to know if we

3078
01:46:34,480 --> 01:46:36,560
come back in the future and we want to

3079
01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:39,040
be under the current minimums because we

3080
01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:40,719
have off-site parking, is that something

3081
01:46:40,719 --> 01:46:44,480
you're at this moment in time uh open to

3082
01:46:44,480 --> 01:46:49,360
c then a motion at least gives them an answer to that question. The reason

3083
01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:50,800
why I say that, and maybe I

3084
01:46:50,800 --> 01:46:52,639
misunderstood you, but it sounds to me

3085
01:46:52,639 --> 01:46:54,400
like that's potentially an important

3086
01:46:54,400 --> 01:46:56,000
piece to the puzzle for you. Yes, for

3087
01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:57,920
sure. On the financing side and making

3088
01:46:57,920 --> 01:47:00,239
this all pencil and so I would hate for

3089
01:47:00,239 --> 01:47:01,520
things to move forward under that

3090
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:03,199
assumption and then for it to come back

3091
01:47:03,199 --> 01:47:04,880
later and us not to be supportive of

3092
01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:06,960
that idea generally. It's just because

3093
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:08,320
of the issue with the planning

3094
01:47:08,320 --> 01:47:10,239
commission creating the the sequencing

3095
01:47:10,239 --> 01:47:10,719
problem.

3096
01:47:10,719 --> 01:47:11,360
>> Right.

3097
01:47:11,360 --> 01:47:12,960
>> Yeah. No, that's a great point. I think

3098
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:17,679
>> Yeah, I agree. And so would we want to say that the the city council is

3099
01:47:17,679 --> 01:47:21,040
inclined to approve an agreement for

3100
01:47:21,040 --> 01:47:24,960
them to provide up to say 2,000 off-site

3101
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:27,760
parkings. They would have to to provide

3102
01:47:27,760 --> 01:47:29,600
contracts and things like that to show

3103
01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:32,080
that they actually have that. Like how

3104
01:47:32,080 --> 01:47:32,560
would we

3105
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:34,080
>> if if it was me, I probably wouldn't go

3106
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:36,080
to that level of detail. I think I had

3107
01:47:36,080 --> 01:47:37,520
more in mind something along the lines

3108
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:39,920
of a motion that says the council is

3109
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:41,920
supportive of the idea about in the

3110
01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:43,760
future

3111
01:47:43,760 --> 01:47:46,320
some exemption from the minimum parking

3112
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:48,400
requirements if those minimum parking

3113
01:47:48,400 --> 01:47:49,920
requirements have been offset through

3114
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:51,199
off-site parking.

3115
01:47:51,199 --> 01:47:52,800
>> Oh, I like that.

3116
01:47:52,800 --> 01:47:54,159
>> More general. More general.

3117
01:47:54,159 --> 01:47:55,440
>> And then they get to come back with a

3118
01:47:55,440 --> 01:47:57,440
plan. You're just expressing your

3119
01:47:57,440 --> 01:47:58,719
support for the for

3120
01:47:58,719 --> 01:48:00,000
>> Right. And the plan would have the

3121
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:02,560
details and information about where it

3122
01:48:02,560 --> 01:48:04,080
would be, contracts, shuttles, and

3123
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:05,280
things like that. So that we would

3124
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:06,480
believe that the plan is

3125
01:48:06,480 --> 01:48:08,080
>> right and and that's why I think I want

3126
01:48:08,080 --> 01:48:09,119
to keep it general because they've kept

3127
01:48:09,119 --> 01:48:10,400
saying they're working on all of these

3128
01:48:10,400 --> 01:48:12,239
ideas but they don't have any of them

3129
01:48:12,239 --> 01:48:13,600
nailed down. The ones they do have

3130
01:48:13,600 --> 01:48:15,920
nailed down maybe they can't share. So I

3131
01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:17,679
don't think that we're in a position yet

3132
01:48:17,679 --> 01:48:20,000
for them either to say how many they can

3133
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:22,080
get or etc.

3134
01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:22,560
>> Right.

3135
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:28,239
now we've got 1,000. So we could improve that significantly. So

3136
01:48:28,239 --> 01:48:29,440
>> well let's look at this on the flip

3137
01:48:29,440 --> 01:48:31,920
side. If they don't have enough parking

3138
01:48:31,920 --> 01:48:34,560
on site and they don't secure enough

3139
01:48:34,560 --> 01:48:36,639
parking somewhere else within the city

3140
01:48:36,639 --> 01:48:39,760
or or where would these people park

3141
01:48:39,760 --> 01:48:43,760
along I 89 over at the parks? I mean

3142
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:46,159
where would they park?

3143
01:48:46,159 --> 01:48:47,520
>> Well, they're they're going to be bound

3144
01:48:47,520 --> 01:48:49,600
to meet city minimums unless they come

3145
01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:52,239
back for you and and satisfy you that

3146
01:48:52,239 --> 01:48:54,239
they don't need to. And even even if

3147
01:48:54,239 --> 01:48:56,400
that were the case, Becky, if we brought

3148
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:58,320
an a proposal back to say we would like

3149
01:48:58,320 --> 01:49:00,320
to go below the minimum on site, the

3150
01:49:00,320 --> 01:49:02,960
5100 or 5200 stalls, we'd have to say

3151
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:05,199
we're going to replace those elsewhere.

3152
01:49:05,199 --> 01:49:06,560
So there would still be that minimum

3153
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:09,040
number of parking required to meet pro

3154
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:09,840
city's ordinances.

3155
01:49:09,840 --> 01:49:11,360
>> I think what councelor Bogdan is just

3156
01:49:11,360 --> 01:49:13,440
suggesting is that if people choose not

3157
01:49:13,440 --> 01:49:15,440
to partake of those options because of

3158
01:49:15,440 --> 01:49:18,080
the friction involved, what are people

3159
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:19,840
going to do alternatively? Park on the

3160
01:49:19,840 --> 01:49:21,040
side of the road. I think that's her

3161
01:49:21,040 --> 01:49:23,440
point. Is that right?

3162
01:49:23,440 --> 01:49:24,719
>> Yeah.

3163
01:49:24,719 --> 01:49:26,480
>> And that's on the flip side. And that's

3164
01:49:26,480 --> 01:49:29,280
a legitimate policy question about why

3165
01:49:29,280 --> 01:49:31,360
you might not support the proposal that

3166
01:49:31,360 --> 01:49:33,840
was just thrown out. So, which is now

3167
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:35,600
why it's even more doubly important for

3168
01:49:35,600 --> 01:49:37,119
the motion to find out.

3169
01:49:37,119 --> 01:49:38,159
>> And that's [clears throat] why I want to

3170
01:49:38,159 --> 01:49:40,080
look at both sides is because if they

3171
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:41,920
don't have them, I'm not sure that

3172
01:49:41,920 --> 01:49:44,480
they're going to not sell 20,000

3173
01:49:44,480 --> 01:49:46,480
tickets.

3174
01:49:46,480 --> 01:49:48,239
Are where would they park? Because I

3175
01:49:48,239 --> 01:49:49,679
mean, they obviously can walk. There's

3176
01:49:49,679 --> 01:49:50,800
going to be a trail. there's going to be

3177
01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:54,239
a place to to bike and go across. So, I

3178
01:49:54,239 --> 01:49:55,520
would say the first thing would be

3179
01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:56,880
public parking that would fill up, which

3180
01:49:56,880 --> 01:49:58,880
would be the parks across the street,

3181
01:49:58,880 --> 01:50:00,480
which you mentioned that you probably

3182
01:50:00,480 --> 01:50:01,920
would have to rent those out every time

3183
01:50:01,920 --> 01:50:03,199
to prevent that anyway.

3184
01:50:03,199 --> 01:50:04,560
>> Correct.

3185
01:50:04,560 --> 01:50:06,159
>> Is there parking allowed on both sides

3186
01:50:06,159 --> 01:50:07,199
of 189?

3187
01:50:07,199 --> 01:50:08,080
>> No.

3188
01:50:08,080 --> 01:50:09,600
>> They'll get a ticket if they do that.

3189
01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:11,520
>> So, where would be the next best place?

3190
01:50:11,520 --> 01:50:13,280
Go up a little bit further to another

3191
01:50:13,280 --> 01:50:14,800
park and park and then walk back down

3192
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:17,119
the trail. I mean, are are we going to

3193
01:50:17,119 --> 01:50:19,280
create a problem if we don't have enough

3194
01:50:19,280 --> 01:50:21,280
parking on site that each one of our

3195
01:50:21,280 --> 01:50:23,679
parks going up the canyon is going to be

3196
01:50:23,679 --> 01:50:24,960
inundated with

3197
01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:26,400
>> We have to have enough parking or else

3198
01:50:26,400 --> 01:50:30,390
they can't sell the tickets.

3199
01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:32,800
» I think the next maybe viable option

3200
01:50:32,800 --> 01:50:34,960
would be somebody parking down in Orum

3201
01:50:34,960 --> 01:50:36,960
and walking on the Pearl River Trail up

3202
01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:39,199
to the up to the venue. Um

3203
01:50:39,199 --> 01:50:40,639
>> but still we're taking away public

3204
01:50:40,639 --> 01:50:43,679
spaces for a private event, right?

3205
01:50:43,679 --> 01:50:45,520
>> Yeah. It's like Yeah. But this this is

3206
01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:46,960
my point on why I felt like it would be

3207
01:50:46,960 --> 01:50:49,360
helpful to have the motion just to give

3208
01:50:49,360 --> 01:50:51,679
them clear direction because if that is

3209
01:50:51,679 --> 01:50:53,760
a concern of the council of like that

3210
01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:55,679
people like if that people are not going

3211
01:50:55,679 --> 01:50:57,360
to partake of the off-site options and

3212
01:50:57,360 --> 01:50:59,440
instead just kind of DIY it in ways that

3213
01:50:59,440 --> 01:51:02,560
are unhelpful then that is the crux

3214
01:51:02,560 --> 01:51:04,239
that's the crux of the question. I think

3215
01:51:04,239 --> 01:51:05,840
>> people do that for BYU games all the

3216
01:51:05,840 --> 01:51:07,360
time, right? You see them park in just

3217
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:09,840
weird spots and then walk in it. And so

3218
01:51:09,840 --> 01:51:12,239
I I don't see this being any different.

3219
01:51:12,239 --> 01:51:14,719
>> Well, see the nature everywhere. I do

3220
01:51:14,719 --> 01:51:16,560
like the idea of Mama Choose selling out

3221
01:51:16,560 --> 01:51:17,920
their parking lot and letting people

3222
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:19,520
walk though because like people do that

3223
01:51:19,520 --> 01:51:21,040
for football games, right? Like

3224
01:51:21,040 --> 01:51:22,000
>> $10 to park.

3225
01:51:22,000 --> 01:51:23,119
here. [laughter]

3226
01:51:23,119 --> 01:51:24,480
>> 10 spots aren't going to make much of a

3227
01:51:24,480 --> 01:51:26,480
difference.

3228
01:51:26,480 --> 01:51:27,920
>> I love moment shoes by the way. Shout

3229
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:29,679
out to great local business. Yeah,

3230
01:51:29,679 --> 01:51:32,212
>> they might be more

3231
01:51:32,212 --> 01:51:35,109
[laughter]

3232
01:51:35,119 --> 01:51:36,960
tough balance we're trying to strike

3233
01:51:36,960 --> 01:51:37,920
because it feels like

3234
01:51:37,920 --> 01:51:39,679
>> totally because traffic is Yeah. The

3235
01:51:39,679 --> 01:51:41,199
concern has been we don't want the

3236
01:51:41,199 --> 01:51:43,520
vehicles of the canyon and it's hard to

3237
01:51:43,520 --> 01:51:46,159
ignore it. And so our our our proposed

3238
01:51:46,159 --> 01:51:48,800
solution was that that shuttles are a

3239
01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:50,320
great option. Hollywood Bowl and a lot

3240
01:51:50,320 --> 01:51:51,920
of other places use shuttles, you know,

3241
01:51:51,920 --> 01:51:53,440
extensively in their operations and

3242
01:51:53,440 --> 01:51:54,480
that's something that we would love to

3243
01:51:54,480 --> 01:51:56,239
propose because we think it's a very

3244
01:51:56,239 --> 01:51:58,560
viable alternative. I don't know that we

3245
01:51:58,560 --> 01:52:00,320
can uh I would hope that we don't

3246
01:52:00,320 --> 01:52:02,560
approve or not approve the project based

3247
01:52:02,560 --> 01:52:04,560
on what the DIYers are going to where

3248
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:05,840
they're going to park. We've got to

3249
01:52:05,840 --> 01:52:07,199
figure out some patrolling with Provo

3250
01:52:07,199 --> 01:52:08,400
City. We've got to figure out patrolling

3251
01:52:08,400 --> 01:52:10,000
with Farm City. We've got to figure out

3252
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:11,760
patrolling with Utah County. There's a

3253
01:52:11,760 --> 01:52:15,040
lot of folks that are involved and we've met with some of those folks um to

3254
01:52:15,040 --> 01:52:17,199
start those conversations. So, um we

3255
01:52:17,199 --> 01:52:18,639
can't really do much until the zoning is

3256
01:52:18,639 --> 01:52:20,480
done, but we need to it's a problem that

3257
01:52:20,480 --> 01:52:21,760
we've got to address. We've got to

3258
01:52:21,760 --> 01:52:22,639
figure it out.

3259
01:52:22,639 --> 01:52:25,040
>> And just understand from our from our

3260
01:52:25,040 --> 01:52:25,840
perspective

3261
01:52:25,840 --> 01:52:26,480
>> Yeah.

3262
01:52:26,480 --> 01:52:28,159
>> Um it's not about patrolling and

3263
01:52:28,159 --> 01:52:29,920
ticketing and towing. We deal with that

3264
01:52:29,920 --> 01:52:30,719
all the time. Yeah.

3265
01:52:30,719 --> 01:52:31,920
>> And you're swimming upstream. We don't

3266
01:52:31,920 --> 01:52:33,840
want to swim upstream. There needs to be

3267
01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:34,880
adequate parking.

3268
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:37,679
>> Yeah. So, I would I would not be

3269
01:52:37,679 --> 01:52:39,119
inclined to say, "Well, let's get as

3270
01:52:39,119 --> 01:52:40,719
skinny as we can and hope the other

3271
01:52:40,719 --> 01:52:43,920
things work." Um because the the

3272
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:46,800
creativity is boundless and we're just

3273
01:52:46,800 --> 01:52:48,080
going to swim upstream every time

3274
01:52:48,080 --> 01:52:50,159
there's a big event and let's not do

3275
01:52:50,159 --> 01:52:51,119
that.

3276
01:52:51,119 --> 01:52:52,800
>> Yeah. And I think it can be helpful too

3277
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:54,960
as they're selling their tickets and

3278
01:52:54,960 --> 01:52:56,400
everything to have very clear

3279
01:52:56,400 --> 01:52:59,760
instructions about parking and shuttles.

3280
01:52:59,760 --> 01:53:02,560
>> Look, when it comes to parking, it's a whole different thing.

3281
01:53:02,560 --> 01:53:03,440
>> Yeah.

3282
01:53:03,440 --> 01:53:04,320
>> It's the wild west.

3283
01:53:04,320 --> 01:53:06,239
>> Yeah. But if they say if you want to be

3284
01:53:06,239 --> 01:53:07,679
able to park on site, you're going to

3285
01:53:07,679 --> 01:53:09,440
need to also buy your ticket to park on

3286
01:53:09,440 --> 01:53:12,239
site and otherwise look at doing the

3287
01:53:12,239 --> 01:53:15,440
shuttles or you know there's

3288
01:53:15,440 --> 01:53:17,920
>> Yeah. Okay. So, we made a motion though

3289
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:21,520
that the council will

3290
01:53:21,520 --> 01:53:23,360
um

3291
01:53:23,360 --> 01:53:25,040
consider waiting that minimum parking

3292
01:53:25,040 --> 01:53:28,480
requirement if we are satisfied that

3293
01:53:28,480 --> 01:53:31,760
there is off-site parking.

3294
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:33,840
Did what was your better language for

3295
01:53:33,840 --> 01:53:35,199
mine? [laughter]

3296
01:53:35,199 --> 01:53:38,320
>> Well, it's a good question. Now Jeff's

3297
01:53:38,320 --> 01:53:41,840
uh left. I mean, it depends on it

3298
01:53:41,840 --> 01:53:44,239
depends on how much of an inclination

3299
01:53:44,239 --> 01:53:46,239
you want to show. I mean, one option is

3300
01:53:46,239 --> 01:53:47,760
you can make a motion that just says

3301
01:53:47,760 --> 01:53:49,360
we're willing to consider a future

3302
01:53:49,360 --> 01:53:52,560
request for reducing uh the required

3303
01:53:52,560 --> 01:53:55,040
on-site parking if we're satisfied with

3304
01:53:55,040 --> 01:53:57,679
your off-site parking proposal. That

3305
01:53:57,679 --> 01:53:59,679
doesn't really say very much because

3306
01:53:59,679 --> 01:54:01,360
they can always bring that proposal

3307
01:54:01,360 --> 01:54:04,960
anyway. If you if you wanted if you're

3308
01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:06,560
again if it reflects your policy

3309
01:54:06,560 --> 01:54:09,280
desires, you could say we're excited to

3310
01:54:09,280 --> 01:54:11,199
receive such a proposal. But I I don't

3311
01:54:11,199 --> 01:54:17,910
know if that's really true or not. Um so

3312
01:54:17,920 --> 01:54:20,639
I I'd like to see an adequate parking,

3313
01:54:20,639 --> 01:54:22,159
right? So I don't want to I don't want

3314
01:54:22,159 --> 01:54:23,920
to I wouldn't vote or support anything

3315
01:54:23,920 --> 01:54:25,679
he says. And if you don't want to do it

3316
01:54:25,679 --> 01:54:27,679
and it doesn't work out, obviously if it

3317
01:54:27,679 --> 01:54:29,599
doesn't work, yes, they'll come back,

3318
01:54:29,599 --> 01:54:29,920
>> right?

3319
01:54:29,920 --> 01:54:32,080
>> Um, but I I don't feel a need to make

3320
01:54:32,080 --> 01:54:34,400
that kind of motion. Maybe others do.

3321
01:54:34,400 --> 01:54:35,520
>> I mean, at the end of the day, there

3322
01:54:35,520 --> 01:54:37,840
it's you're not really on this

3323
01:54:37,840 --> 01:54:39,119
particular issue, you're not deciding

3324
01:54:39,119 --> 01:54:41,119
anything right now other than whether

3325
01:54:41,119 --> 01:54:42,719
you're sending them a

3326
01:54:42,719 --> 01:54:44,480
>> a signal to keep working on it or not.

3327
01:54:44,480 --> 01:54:46,960
>> If there's not a total fail, it'll utter

3328
01:54:46,960 --> 01:54:49,840
disaster. cars,

3329
01:54:49,840 --> 01:54:52,880
>> frustration and more traffic and going

3330
01:54:52,880 --> 01:54:57,669
back and forth than other. So,

3331
01:54:57,679 --> 01:55:00,480
» Craig, did you want a motion about

3332
01:55:00,480 --> 01:55:02,159
limiting double-decker parking or

3333
01:55:02,159 --> 01:55:04,239
screening?

3334
01:55:04,239 --> 01:55:05,920
>> Well, I actually think I actually think

3335
01:55:05,920 --> 01:55:06,800
we covered it.

3336
01:55:06,800 --> 01:55:07,280
>> Okay.

3337
01:55:07,280 --> 01:55:10,159
>> Um because again, I don't I don't know

3338
01:55:10,159 --> 01:55:11,920
what to specifically to say. I just

3339
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:13,920
expressed the concern. So, whatever they

3340
01:55:13,920 --> 01:55:17,360
come back with, uh that will be it.

3341
01:55:17,360 --> 01:55:22,320
But it but the but the idea of of uh

3342
01:55:22,320 --> 01:55:25,440
expanding and creating again as you go

3343
01:55:25,440 --> 01:55:27,040
in the canyon I don't want to look over

3344
01:55:27,040 --> 01:55:29,280
and see parking garages and I don't

3345
01:55:29,280 --> 01:55:31,679
think any of us do. So I don't know that

3346
01:55:31,679 --> 01:55:33,280
I need to make a motion. I think we've

3347
01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:34,239
been clear about that.

3348
01:55:34,239 --> 01:55:35,440
>> Well if you make a motion couldn't you

3349
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:36,880
say they come back

3350
01:55:36,880 --> 01:55:37,920
>> concern

3351
01:55:37,920 --> 01:55:38,320
>> okay

3352
01:55:38,320 --> 01:55:39,920
>> that you come back in two weeks with a

3353
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:42,480
proposal that doesn't have parking

3354
01:55:42,480 --> 01:55:44,239
garages everywhere. You could

3355
01:55:44,239 --> 01:55:45,679
>> be helpful. Yeah, I I think it would be

3356
01:55:45,679 --> 01:55:48,159
helpful uh I was going to say I not to

3357
01:55:48,159 --> 01:55:49,840
be pedantic. We can do a straw poll, but

3358
01:55:49,840 --> 01:55:51,199
I think it's helpful if you just make a

3359
01:55:51,199 --> 01:55:53,920
motion saying that you would like the

3360
01:55:53,920 --> 01:55:56,800
next draft to incorporate what has been

3361
01:55:56,800 --> 01:55:58,880
proposed and about addressing your

3362
01:55:58,880 --> 01:56:01,040
parking concerns. I think that

3363
01:56:01,040 --> 01:56:02,320
>> I make a motion to the next draft

3364
01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:04,880
incorporate what we've discussed about

3365
01:56:04,880 --> 01:56:06,880
uh subtraining parking and any kind of

3366
01:56:06,880 --> 01:56:08,159
visible parking

3367
01:56:08,159 --> 01:56:10,800
>> and the double-decker parking.

3368
01:56:10,800 --> 01:56:13,679
>> I would second that, Craig. All right.

3369
01:56:13,679 --> 01:56:18,450
Any discussion on the motion?

3370
01:56:18,450 --> 01:56:21,510
[laughter]

3371
01:56:21,520 --> 01:56:21,920
» Yes.

3372
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:24,159
>> Councelor W. Councelor Christensen?

3373
01:56:24,159 --> 01:56:24,400
>> Yes.

3374
01:56:24,400 --> 01:56:25,199
>> Councelor Garrett?

3375
01:56:25,199 --> 01:56:25,599
>> Yes.

3376
01:56:25,599 --> 01:56:27,360
>> Counselor.

3377
01:56:27,360 --> 01:56:28,159
>> Yes.

3378
01:56:28,159 --> 01:56:29,280
>> Councelor Whipple.

3379
01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:30,800
>> Yes.

3380
01:56:30,800 --> 01:56:32,080
>> Okay. 7.

3381
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:33,760
>> Perfect. Okay. We're twothirds of the

3382
01:56:33,760 --> 01:56:34,800
way through our time and a third of the

3383
01:56:34,800 --> 01:56:37,760
way through my materials. So, we're uh

3384
01:56:37,760 --> 01:56:38,960
Kevin, can you switch back to my

3385
01:56:38,960 --> 01:56:41,920
slideshow? I think most of the rest I

3386
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:44,320
think we've hit some of the worst stuff,

3387
01:56:44,320 --> 01:56:45,199
but we'll see if

3388
01:56:45,199 --> 01:56:46,480
>> Good news is Brian, they are going to

3389
01:56:46,480 --> 01:56:47,840
come back. So, we can just say we're

3390
01:56:47,840 --> 01:56:48,880
going through this much. We'll go

3391
01:56:48,880 --> 01:56:49,920
through the rest of it.

3392
01:56:49,920 --> 01:56:52,080
>> And I do think that we

3393
01:56:52,080 --> 01:56:53,599
underestimated how much time this one

3394
01:56:53,599 --> 01:56:55,280
will take and overestimated how much

3395
01:56:55,280 --> 01:56:56,800
time the next one will take. So, we'll

3396
01:56:56,800 --> 01:56:58,639
but we'll see if I'm right about all of

3397
01:56:58,639 --> 01:57:00,320
that. Okay. So, we've talked about

3398
01:57:00,320 --> 01:57:01,920
vested caps, we've talked about parking.

3399
01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:04,159
So, conservation easement. This this is

3400
01:57:04,159 --> 01:57:06,159
a a hairy one that I want to try to

3401
01:57:06,159 --> 01:57:07,840
simplify down into something that

3402
01:57:07,840 --> 01:57:09,360
doesn't have to be discussed that much

3403
01:57:09,360 --> 01:57:12,960
right now. So, the conservation easement

3404
01:57:12,960 --> 01:57:16,746
paragraph is completely dependent on how

3405
01:57:16,746 --> 01:57:18,639
[snorts] much property the city sells

3406
01:57:18,639 --> 01:57:20,880
them, which has not been decided yet.

3407
01:57:20,880 --> 01:57:23,280
So, this paragraph is going to have to

3408
01:57:23,280 --> 01:57:25,520
change. So, I don't want you to get too

3409
01:57:25,520 --> 01:57:27,360
hung up on what it currently sells

3410
01:57:27,360 --> 01:57:29,280
because what it currently says is a

3411
01:57:29,280 --> 01:57:32,000
placeholder based on one idea for the

3412
01:57:32,000 --> 01:57:33,599
property transaction. that still has to

3413
01:57:33,599 --> 01:57:35,440
be decided. So, what it currently says

3414
01:57:35,440 --> 01:57:38,639
is if we sold them the entire 66 acres

3415
01:57:38,639 --> 01:57:41,520
that they would have to put at least 50%

3416
01:57:41,520 --> 01:57:44,400
of that into a conservation easement.

3417
01:57:44,400 --> 01:57:46,000
Some of the questions that were asked in

3418
01:57:46,000 --> 01:57:48,000
the council materials and that Vesper

3419
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:50,560
responded to uh addresses some of the

3420
01:57:50,560 --> 01:57:52,480
concerns that have already been raised.

3421
01:57:52,480 --> 01:57:55,040
So again, not currently in here, but

3422
01:57:55,040 --> 01:57:56,639
already anticipated based on

3423
01:57:56,639 --> 01:57:58,800
conversations between Brian Bis and I.

3424
01:57:58,800 --> 01:58:01,199
Vesper's fine to specify in the

3425
01:58:01,199 --> 01:58:03,360
development agreement that the holder of

3426
01:58:03,360 --> 01:58:05,520
the conservation easement would be a

3427
01:58:05,520 --> 01:58:08,800
501c3 nonprofit dedicated to open space

3428
01:58:08,800 --> 01:58:10,960
preservation without necessarily picking

3429
01:58:10,960 --> 01:58:13,199
one. Uh that but it won't be a

3430
01:58:13,199 --> 01:58:15,840
commercial entity or or a subsidiary of

3431
01:58:15,840 --> 01:58:17,520
Vesper or anything like that. and

3432
01:58:17,520 --> 01:58:21,280
they're open to the idea of specifying

3433
01:58:21,280 --> 01:58:23,840
more thoroughly in this section of the

3434
01:58:23,840 --> 01:58:25,760
development agreement what the permitted

3435
01:58:25,760 --> 01:58:30,159
and prohibited uh uses of of the land

3436
01:58:30,159 --> 01:58:31,760
subject to the conservation easement

3437
01:58:31,760 --> 01:58:33,840
would be. Right? So those are all things

3438
01:58:33,840 --> 01:58:35,360
that they've already committed to

3439
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:37,760
negotiating further, but whether we even

3440
01:58:37,760 --> 01:58:40,320
need to or not dep contingent upon

3441
01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:41,920
another decision about how much actually

3442
01:58:41,920 --> 01:58:43,920
gets sold because if we only sell them

3443
01:58:43,920 --> 01:58:46,159
33 acres, this whole paragraph just goes

3444
01:58:46,159 --> 01:58:48,239
away. Does that make sense?

3445
01:58:48,239 --> 01:58:49,840
>> Um, so

3446
01:58:49,840 --> 01:58:50,639
>> ask a question.

3447
01:58:50,639 --> 01:58:51,440
>> Yes, please.

3448
01:58:51,440 --> 01:58:53,920
>> Unilateral. The city will then have

3449
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:55,760
unilateral, right? That means we could

3450
01:58:55,760 --> 01:58:57,679
we have absolute right to put in a

3451
01:58:57,679 --> 01:58:58,639
conservation.

3452
01:58:58,639 --> 01:59:00,159
>> Well, not to not to put in a

3453
01:59:00,159 --> 01:59:02,800
conservation ement. So the proposal is

3454
01:59:02,800 --> 01:59:05,840
to uh the application is to reszone the

3455
01:59:05,840 --> 01:59:08,880
entire property SC3.

3456
01:59:08,880 --> 01:59:11,520
This would say once conservation is done

3457
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:13,599
or once construction of the trail system

3458
01:59:13,599 --> 01:59:15,840
is done, the conservation is easement is

3459
01:59:15,840 --> 01:59:18,639
in place, we can reszone the

3460
01:59:18,639 --> 01:59:20,320
conservation easement portion of the

3461
01:59:20,320 --> 01:59:23,199
property. OSPR, they can't object. They

3462
01:59:23,199 --> 01:59:24,960
we don't need an application from them.

3463
01:59:24,960 --> 01:59:26,000
We just reszone it.

3464
01:59:26,000 --> 01:59:26,560
>> Okay.

3465
01:59:26,560 --> 01:59:29,360
>> Why not do that at this time of closing?

3466
01:59:29,360 --> 01:59:29,760
>> Um

3467
01:59:29,760 --> 01:59:32,080
>> why the delay? Well,

3468
01:59:32,080 --> 01:59:34,320
>> I mean the the the flip side, the way I

3469
01:59:34,320 --> 01:59:35,440
think what you're proposing is

3470
01:59:35,440 --> 01:59:37,119
essentially actually change the reszone

3471
01:59:37,119 --> 01:59:40,800
application so that we don't reszone the

3472
01:59:40,800 --> 01:59:43,760
undeveloped part. Bill can correct me if

3473
01:59:43,760 --> 01:59:45,920
I'm wrong, but I think I think it propo

3474
01:59:45,920 --> 01:59:49,520
it it uh poses some problems to the

3475
01:59:49,520 --> 01:59:52,800
trail creation for the property to be in

3476
01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:55,679
the OSPR while the trails are being

3477
01:59:55,679 --> 01:59:58,320
built and the bathrooms are being built,

3478
01:59:58,320 --> 02:00:00,800
etc. That might that right?

3479
02:00:00,800 --> 02:00:02,320
>> How would those How would that be a

3480
02:00:02,320 --> 02:00:05,119
problem?

3481
02:00:05,119 --> 02:00:08,080
>> I'd have to look up. Let me look.

3482
02:00:08,080 --> 02:00:09,840
>> Is Is that accurate though? It creates

3483
02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:13,109
complications.

3484
02:00:13,119 --> 02:00:13,440
» Okay.

3485
02:00:13,440 --> 02:00:15,920
>> We we So, so that's something that's

3486
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:17,280
that that's certainly another option.

3487
02:00:17,280 --> 02:00:19,840
That's something that we can look at. Uh

3488
02:00:19,840 --> 02:00:22,080
to the degree my anticipation and

3489
02:00:22,080 --> 02:00:23,280
Brian's kind of nodding his head, my

3490
02:00:23,280 --> 02:00:25,520
anticipation is that if you only run a

3491
02:00:25,520 --> 02:00:27,599
reszone Well, here's the other here's

3492
02:00:27,599 --> 02:00:29,440
the other part. Normally we reszone

3493
02:00:29,440 --> 02:00:31,360
entire parcels,

3494
02:00:31,360 --> 02:00:33,280
right? And right now it's all one part.

3495
02:00:33,280 --> 02:00:37,679
The the city piece is all one parcel. So

3496
02:00:37,679 --> 02:00:39,599
it would be unusual for us and a little

3497
02:00:39,599 --> 02:00:43,040
bit complicated to reszone through the

3498
02:00:43,040 --> 02:00:44,480
middle of a parcel. It's not that we

3499
02:00:44,480 --> 02:00:45,840
haven't ever done it before and we and

3500
02:00:45,840 --> 02:00:47,119
we theoretically, but

3501
02:00:47,119 --> 02:00:48,880
>> and why not the alternative of just

3502
02:00:48,880 --> 02:00:55,679
selling the land they need? Well, that that is entirely why I said let's not

3503
02:00:55,679 --> 02:00:57,199
worry about the details of this one too

3504
02:00:57,199 --> 02:00:59,119
much until that decision is made. But

3505
02:00:59,119 --> 02:01:01,360
that decision gets made later in the

3506
02:01:01,360 --> 02:01:02,960
other agreement.

3507
02:01:02,960 --> 02:01:04,639
>> Does that make sense? So when we get to

3508
02:01:04,639 --> 02:01:05,360
that when that

3509
02:01:05,360 --> 02:01:06,560
>> Okay. Yeah. The repsy you're talking

3510
02:01:06,560 --> 02:01:06,800
about.

3511
02:01:06,800 --> 02:01:08,239
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When we get to

3512
02:01:08,239 --> 02:01:09,119
the repsy.

3513
02:01:09,119 --> 02:01:09,520
>> All right.

3514
02:01:09,520 --> 02:01:11,360
>> That might make this paragraph

3515
02:01:11,360 --> 02:01:12,320
completely moot.

3516
02:01:12,320 --> 02:01:12,800
>> Okay.

3517
02:01:12,800 --> 02:01:14,400
>> But as far as this is concerned, the b

3518
02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:17,679
the reveation is now and they're doing

3519
02:01:17,679 --> 02:01:19,360
the trail for sale,

3520
02:01:19,360 --> 02:01:21,599
>> right? 50% of conservation phase zero is

3521
02:01:21,599 --> 02:01:22,080
sale.

3522
02:01:22,080 --> 02:01:24,159
>> Yes. If we if we end up selling the

3523
02:01:24,159 --> 02:01:25,520
entire piece,

3524
02:01:25,520 --> 02:01:27,040
>> bathrooms don't.

3525
02:01:27,040 --> 02:01:30,960
>> Yep. Okay. Any any other questions about

3526
02:01:30,960 --> 02:01:35,199
the defensation section? Okay.

3527
02:01:35,199 --> 02:01:37,280
Uh let's see. And actually, I think they

3528
02:01:37,280 --> 02:01:40,880
had a couple slide. I threw in a

3529
02:01:40,880 --> 02:01:42,159
couple slides from what they this is

3530
02:01:42,159 --> 02:01:44,239
what they actually

3531
02:01:44,239 --> 02:01:46,159
put in their answers. No, this one

3532
02:01:46,159 --> 02:01:47,840
pretty much just repeats what the

3533
02:01:47,840 --> 02:01:49,840
concert what the development agreement

3534
02:01:49,840 --> 02:01:53,360
already says, but this is um and so so

3535
02:01:53,360 --> 02:01:56,400
does this actually. Uh so we've Brian

3536
02:01:56,400 --> 02:01:58,239
and I had a conversation after these

3537
02:01:58,239 --> 02:01:59,920
answers were submitted to the council.

3538
02:01:59,920 --> 02:02:01,760
That's when he talked to me about being

3539
02:02:01,760 --> 02:02:04,560
willing to specify that it's a nonprofit

3540
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:08,400
and add some restrictions. Okay,

3541
02:02:08,400 --> 02:02:11,119
this paragraph we actually went over uh

3542
02:02:11,119 --> 02:02:13,840
a little while ago about the uh parking

3543
02:02:13,840 --> 02:02:16,800
garage. So, I won't dig into it in great

3544
02:02:16,800 --> 02:02:18,880
depth unless there's any but I'll leave

3545
02:02:18,880 --> 02:02:20,159
it up for a second for you to tell me if

3546
02:02:20,159 --> 02:02:22,400
there's any concerns about this

3547
02:02:22,400 --> 02:02:24,320
paragraph

3548
02:02:24,320 --> 02:02:26,480
>> and something starts happening that you

3549
02:02:26,480 --> 02:02:29,119
don't think is fits in this body. That's

3550
02:02:29,119 --> 02:02:31,599
Bill's team to notice that and say,

3551
02:02:31,599 --> 02:02:33,280
>> right? And so that's, you know, that's

3552
02:02:33,280 --> 02:02:35,119
the one

3553
02:02:35,119 --> 02:02:37,360
uh

3554
02:02:37,360 --> 02:02:39,119
is this specific enough? That's the

3555
02:02:39,119 --> 02:02:40,639
question for the council is, is this

3556
02:02:40,639 --> 02:02:42,800
specific enough

3557
02:02:42,800 --> 02:02:46,080
combined with the concept plan or do you

3558
02:02:46,080 --> 02:02:48,000
need something more specific than this?

3559
02:02:48,000 --> 02:02:50,320
>> So, how detailed is the concept plan in

3560
02:02:50,320 --> 02:02:52,719
terms of finishes and and building

3561
02:02:52,719 --> 02:02:54,880
materials and things like that? Well,

3562
02:02:54,880 --> 02:02:58,560
not not very uh would be my take on

3563
02:02:58,560 --> 02:03:02,880
that. Bill, uh Mr. Preparoni,

3564
02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:05,520
sorry, Terra's distracting him. He's

3565
02:03:05,520 --> 02:03:07,119
looking at the code. He's looking I'm

3566
02:03:07,119 --> 02:03:08,639
kidding. He's looking at the code for

3567
02:03:08,639 --> 02:03:12,239
us. Uh the concept plan doesn't show a

3568
02:03:12,239 --> 02:03:16,000
lot about finishes and it's more about

3569
02:03:16,000 --> 02:03:16,960
locations.

3570
02:03:16,960 --> 02:03:17,599
>> Right. Right.

3571
02:03:17,599 --> 02:03:19,440
>> Yeah. the residential plans. Again, we

3572
02:03:19,440 --> 02:03:21,199
have elevations

3573
02:03:21,199 --> 02:03:22,560
attached to the development agreement,

3574
02:03:22,560 --> 02:03:24,080
but since this is in a residential

3575
02:03:24,080 --> 02:03:26,320
development, it's not anticipated.

3576
02:03:26,320 --> 02:03:29,199
>> Yeah. So, could we anticipate that? I

3577
02:03:29,199 --> 02:03:31,440
mean, couldn't we include that? Building

3578
02:03:31,440 --> 02:03:36,880
materials, uh, finishes, all that. Uh,

3579
02:03:36,880 --> 02:03:38,080
is there a reason we couldn't include

3580
02:03:38,080 --> 02:03:38,639
that?

3581
02:03:38,639 --> 02:03:40,159
>> No.

3582
02:03:40,159 --> 02:03:41,840
>> Just the more that you included, less

3583
02:03:41,840 --> 02:03:43,679
flexibility they have,

3584
02:03:43,679 --> 02:03:44,080
>> right?

3585
02:03:44,080 --> 02:03:46,239
>> Yeah. Well, the the ch the challenge is

3586
02:03:46,239 --> 02:03:49,199
that to say um high quality Kenya

3587
02:03:49,199 --> 02:03:51,520
integrated destination environment that

3588
02:03:51,520 --> 02:03:52,960
will mean seven different things to

3589
02:03:52,960 --> 02:03:55,599
seven different people. Um I'd love to

3590
02:03:55,599 --> 02:03:59,280
see specifics on what is that? What does

3591
02:03:59,280 --> 02:04:05,520
that look like? Not just in terms of a a rendering, but also and there's three there's three different

3592
02:04:05,520 --> 02:04:08,560
ways of doing that. uh kind of in

3593
02:04:08,560 --> 02:04:10,560
increasing

3594
02:04:10,560 --> 02:04:14,159
restriction on um flexibility, right?

3595
02:04:14,159 --> 02:04:17,360
The one way is to the only thing that we

3596
02:04:17,360 --> 02:04:19,760
add is if there are materials that are

3597
02:04:19,760 --> 02:04:22,800
prohibited, you list those and say

3598
02:04:22,800 --> 02:04:25,280
whatever it is, it can't be this. That's

3599
02:04:25,280 --> 02:04:27,199
the most flexible while still being more

3600
02:04:27,199 --> 02:04:29,199
stricter than this. The next one is to

3601
02:04:29,199 --> 02:04:31,840
say we're not going to say exactly what

3602
02:04:31,840 --> 02:04:34,480
it has to be, but it has to be these

3603
02:04:34,480 --> 02:04:36,400
things, right? You have you give them a

3604
02:04:36,400 --> 02:04:39,440
list of what it it can be but not spec

3605
02:04:39,440 --> 02:04:41,440
and then the le the most restrictive and

3606
02:04:41,440 --> 02:04:44,080
least flexible and probably pretty

3607
02:04:44,080 --> 02:04:45,920
difficult for them at this point is to

3608
02:04:45,920 --> 02:04:47,920
say you got to show us pictures and

3609
02:04:47,920 --> 02:04:49,679
that's what it's going to be right

3610
02:04:49,679 --> 02:04:51,920
>> yeah

3611
02:04:51,920 --> 02:04:54,960
so I don't know if you have thoughts on

3612
02:04:54,960 --> 02:04:59,199
that range or those options but

3613
02:04:59,199 --> 02:05:01,146
>> yeah

3614
02:05:01,146 --> 02:05:01,360
[laughter]

3615
02:05:01,360 --> 02:05:03,040
>> and again this and this is one where it

3616
02:05:03,040 --> 02:05:05,840
would be very useful uh for

3617
02:05:05,840 --> 02:05:07,679
when we when we put together the uh

3618
02:05:07,679 --> 02:05:10,239
rivers and trails guidelines uh great

3619
02:05:10,239 --> 02:05:11,679
detail in terms of this kind of

3620
02:05:11,679 --> 02:05:12,880
material, this kind of wood, this kind

3621
02:05:12,880 --> 02:05:14,239
of that, this kind of that, this kind of

3622
02:05:14,239 --> 02:05:16,880
height and uh you know great detail to

3623
02:05:16,880 --> 02:05:19,280
create that the the right ambiance that

3624
02:05:19,280 --> 02:05:21,840
we were talking about. Uh of course we

3625
02:05:21,840 --> 02:05:24,560
don't want it to be ownorous, but what

3626
02:05:24,560 --> 02:05:28,320
is canyon integrated destination? What

3627
02:05:28,320 --> 02:05:30,800
is that? And so that actually seeing

3628
02:05:30,800 --> 02:05:33,840
that it's it's hard to say, yeah, of

3629
02:05:33,840 --> 02:05:35,520
course we don't want aluminum siding,

3630
02:05:35,520 --> 02:05:36,080
>> right?

3631
02:05:36,080 --> 02:05:39,199
>> Um but beyond that, it seems like some

3632
02:05:39,199 --> 02:05:40,560
detail would be helpful.

3633
02:05:40,560 --> 02:05:41,920
>> Yeah, I was going to say I don't know if

3634
02:05:41,920 --> 02:05:44,560
uh Bill or anybody on his team wants to

3635
02:05:44,560 --> 02:05:46,400
speak to it, but essentially at the end

3636
02:05:46,400 --> 02:05:49,040
of the day, that means what they think

3637
02:05:49,040 --> 02:05:51,679
it means.

3638
02:05:51,679 --> 02:05:53,920
>> Dale, our city

3639
02:05:53,920 --> 02:05:56,719
standards for

3640
02:05:56,719 --> 02:05:58,159
>> Brian wanted to make a comment. Is that

3641
02:05:58,159 --> 02:06:00,960
okay?

3642
02:06:00,960 --> 02:06:02,239
>> This is what we're talking about whether

3643
02:06:02,239 --> 02:06:03,760
this is specific enough.

3644
02:06:03,760 --> 02:06:06,080
>> I guess I'm just thinking because it

3645
02:06:06,080 --> 02:06:07,360
says natural materials and natural

3646
02:06:07,360 --> 02:06:08,880
design elements must be substantially

3647
02:06:08,880 --> 02:06:10,480
incorporated in the finished product,

3648
02:06:10,480 --> 02:06:12,000
including meaningful use materials such

3649
02:06:12,000 --> 02:06:13,679
as wood, stone, glass, and other

3650
02:06:13,679 --> 02:06:15,119
materials of similar quality and

3651
02:06:15,119 --> 02:06:17,840
character. They have to be designed to

3652
02:06:17,840 --> 02:06:19,760
respond to the site's topography, views,

3653
02:06:19,760 --> 02:06:21,679
and mountain setting. I mean, it keeps

3654
02:06:21,679 --> 02:06:24,800
going here. Is there something in this?

3655
02:06:24,800 --> 02:06:26,239
doesn't hold the developer to

3656
02:06:26,239 --> 02:06:27,840
anything then. It seems like it would.

3657
02:06:27,840 --> 02:06:29,679
>> It It does. I mean, it does, but that

3658
02:06:29,679 --> 02:06:31,360
but the question is, is it specific

3659
02:06:31,360 --> 02:06:32,639
enough for the council to

3660
02:06:32,639 --> 02:06:35,440
>> I just don't know if if they've

3661
02:06:35,440 --> 02:06:37,520
Okay. Yeah, look at that. And I think

3662
02:06:37,520 --> 02:06:38,960
this would be where to start, not

3663
02:06:38,960 --> 02:06:41,119
necessarily the

3664
02:06:41,119 --> 02:06:42,800
design plan. I don't I don't know. Yeah.

3665
02:06:42,800 --> 02:06:44,239
If there's going to be changes, would

3666
02:06:44,239 --> 02:06:45,599
this be the place where they would do it

3667
02:06:45,599 --> 02:06:46,400
then? [clears throat]

3668
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:47,760
>> Yes. I think that's exactly what we're

3669
02:06:47,760 --> 02:06:49,920
proposing is the question for the

3670
02:06:49,920 --> 02:06:51,679
council is, do you want this paragraph

3671
02:06:51,679 --> 02:06:54,719
to be more specific than it is?

3672
02:06:54,719 --> 02:06:56,239
Yeah.

3673
02:06:56,239 --> 02:06:58,560
>> Can I may they maybe mention something?

3674
02:06:58,560 --> 02:06:58,960
>> Yeah.

3675
02:06:58,960 --> 02:07:01,440
>> Um Kevin, I don't know if you have

3676
02:07:01,440 --> 02:07:04,239
access to our application, but in the

3677
02:07:04,239 --> 02:07:05,840
original application, it went through

3678
02:07:05,840 --> 02:07:07,440
and kind of identify each one of the

3679
02:07:07,440 --> 02:07:08,639
different uses. So, it talked about

3680
02:07:08,639 --> 02:07:10,719
hotel, it talked about the amphitheater,

3681
02:07:10,719 --> 02:07:12,639
it talked about the materials, and it

3682
02:07:12,639 --> 02:07:14,880
gave specific exhibits of what we were

3683
02:07:14,880 --> 02:07:18,960
talking about. um as as design and

3684
02:07:18,960 --> 02:07:20,480
architecture changes again I don't think

3685
02:07:20,480 --> 02:07:21,760
it's going to change that much in two to

3686
02:07:21,760 --> 02:07:23,360
three years but you just look at how

3687
02:07:23,360 --> 02:07:25,119
architecture changes every 10 years it

3688
02:07:25,119 --> 02:07:26,320
seems like there's kind of a whole new

3689
02:07:26,320 --> 02:07:28,880
wash of of of architectural elements and

3690
02:07:28,880 --> 02:07:30,639
components that are important to people

3691
02:07:30,639 --> 02:07:32,719
um we want to be sensitive to that but I

3692
02:07:32,719 --> 02:07:37,119
think that provides a good baseline and I would maybe if there was a way to

3693
02:07:37,119 --> 02:07:39,520
reference those exhibits we spent quite

3694
02:07:39,520 --> 02:07:41,360
a bit of time on those we would love to

3695
02:07:41,360 --> 02:07:43,040
incorporate those into this plan if that

3696
02:07:43,040 --> 02:07:45,040
gave enough specificity

3697
02:07:45,040 --> 02:07:46,000
>> they

3698
02:07:46,000 --> 02:07:47,520
Yeah, they are. And Kevin, do you do you

3699
02:07:47,520 --> 02:07:49,760
by chance have that? It's our actual

3700
02:07:49,760 --> 02:07:52,960
original application and I haven't

3701
02:07:52,960 --> 02:07:54,880
>> sources. So, let's just make sure that

3702
02:07:54,880 --> 02:07:55,360
next time.

3703
02:07:55,360 --> 02:07:57,599
>> It's it's in the slide. I can pull that

3704
02:07:57,599 --> 02:07:59,520
up in the next round if if we want to

3705
02:07:59,520 --> 02:08:00,560
just look through those pictures.

3706
02:08:00,560 --> 02:08:02,159
>> Are you interested in seeing it or are

3707
02:08:02,159 --> 02:08:03,440
you just interested in the idea that

3708
02:08:03,440 --> 02:08:05,199
they're willing to incorporate it

3709
02:08:05,199 --> 02:08:06,480
>> to see it? I mean, at some point we're

3710
02:08:06,480 --> 02:08:07,199
going to want to see it,

3711
02:08:07,199 --> 02:08:09,199
>> right? You're gonna see it

3712
02:08:09,199 --> 02:08:12,639
if there's a a consensus of Yeah. that,

3713
02:08:12,639 --> 02:08:16,000
>> right? Uh because again everything we talked about sound great

3714
02:08:16,000 --> 02:08:19,840
sound very sass very but again uh this

3715
02:08:19,840 --> 02:08:21,040
doesn't do it for me

3716
02:08:21,040 --> 02:08:22,639
>> right you don't want that to be replaced

3717
02:08:22,639 --> 02:08:24,400
with cardboard covered in stock

3718
02:08:24,400 --> 02:08:28,239
>> that's right and again uh even that

3719
02:08:28,239 --> 02:08:30,239
paragraph right there means a lot of

3720
02:08:30,239 --> 02:08:32,880
different things so if we got pictures

3721
02:08:32,880 --> 02:08:34,320
and we've already gone through that yeah

3722
02:08:34,320 --> 02:08:35,040
that's

3723
02:08:35,040 --> 02:08:36,880
>> right yeah I mean I don't think it means

3724
02:08:36,880 --> 02:08:39,263
that but you're

3725
02:08:39,263 --> 02:08:39,840
[laughter]

3726
02:08:39,840 --> 02:08:41,440
>> but it's open to some interpretation

3727
02:08:41,440 --> 02:08:44,079
okay So I think I'm going to move on

3728
02:08:44,079 --> 02:08:45,599
with the general idea that you're okay

3729
02:08:45,599 --> 02:08:47,199
with the idea of those things being

3730
02:08:47,199 --> 02:08:48,719
incorporated and that those things are

3731
02:08:48,719 --> 02:08:50,079
going to be in the next draft when you

3732
02:08:50,079 --> 02:08:52,800
see the next draft so that you can say

3733
02:08:52,800 --> 02:08:56,400
this is okay sufficient enough. Okay.

3734
02:08:56,400 --> 02:09:03,189
So we'll move on to

3735
02:09:03,199 --> 02:09:05,679
» okay there we go. So there's a paragraph

3736
02:09:05,679 --> 02:09:08,960
about dark sky and signage. Uh must be

3737
02:09:08,960 --> 02:09:10,560
designed to be dark sky compliant to the

3738
02:09:10,560 --> 02:09:14,159
extent reasonly possible. Uh I I suppose

3739
02:09:14,159 --> 02:09:17,280
I guess I would say in addition to this

3740
02:09:17,280 --> 02:09:19,119
um

3741
02:09:19,119 --> 02:09:21,119
the

3742
02:09:21,119 --> 02:09:22,719
new lighting standards are going to be

3743
02:09:22,719 --> 02:09:25,119
in place and they have to be com and

3744
02:09:25,119 --> 02:09:26,800
they have to be compliant with the code.

3745
02:09:26,800 --> 02:09:29,199
So that what was talked about earlier

3746
02:09:29,199 --> 02:09:32,320
today will already be in place and

3747
02:09:32,320 --> 02:09:34,719
binding as well.

3748
02:09:34,719 --> 02:09:36,480
even if they submitted this application

3749
02:09:36,480 --> 02:09:39,119
before Matt's spot.

3750
02:09:39,119 --> 02:09:42,079
>> Yes, because there's a paragraph uh

3751
02:09:42,079 --> 02:09:44,159
there's a paragraph elsewhere in the

3752
02:09:44,159 --> 02:09:46,239
development agreement in the boilerplate

3753
02:09:46,239 --> 02:09:49,280
that talks about like

3754
02:09:49,280 --> 02:09:52,400
um about the code in place at the time

3755
02:09:52,400 --> 02:09:54,239
the development agreement is approved.

3756
02:09:54,239 --> 02:09:56,159
So, it's not like you can change the

3757
02:09:56,159 --> 02:09:59,360
code forever and ever and ever, but uh

3758
02:09:59,360 --> 02:10:01,119
and we can be more specific about that

3759
02:10:01,119 --> 02:10:02,960
too if if we need to. I guess the

3760
02:10:02,960 --> 02:10:05,280
question is um

3761
02:10:05,280 --> 02:10:06,480
>> please do

3762
02:10:06,480 --> 02:10:09,119
>> okay yeah as well I I suppose the the

3763
02:10:09,119 --> 02:10:10,159
biggest question for moving the

3764
02:10:10,159 --> 02:10:11,840
conversation along is as long as that's

3765
02:10:11,840 --> 02:10:13,199
explicit that those standards are

3766
02:10:13,199 --> 02:10:15,920
binding any other concerns or comments

3767
02:10:15,920 --> 02:10:17,199
about this paragraph

3768
02:10:17,199 --> 02:10:18,320
>> council

3769
02:10:18,320 --> 02:10:21,440
>> um just some dumb questions like would

3770
02:10:21,440 --> 02:10:24,480
this permit a big electronic billboard

3771
02:10:24,480 --> 02:10:26,239
sign or like a sign

3772
02:10:26,239 --> 02:10:27,119
>> well uh

3773
02:10:27,119 --> 02:10:28,480
>> something along the lines of like what

3774
02:10:28,480 --> 02:10:31,760
we see on University Avenue going

3775
02:10:31,760 --> 02:10:34,159
here. Well, I mean that's already not

3776
02:10:34,159 --> 02:10:35,040
permitted,

3777
02:10:35,040 --> 02:10:36,639
>> right?

3778
02:10:36,639 --> 02:10:40,159
>> So, so no, I mean this specifically says

3779
02:10:40,159 --> 02:10:44,159
that they're subject to uh the city sign

3780
02:10:44,159 --> 02:10:44,480
code,

3781
02:10:44,480 --> 02:10:46,880
>> but there are peritted like we do allow

3782
02:10:46,880 --> 02:10:48,560
Yeah, we do allow electronic signage.

3783
02:10:48,560 --> 02:10:49,119
There's just

3784
02:10:49,119 --> 02:10:50,719
>> those code sections do not allow

3785
02:10:50,719 --> 02:10:52,400
electronic signs. That's why those code

3786
02:10:52,400 --> 02:10:52,800
reference.

3787
02:10:52,800 --> 02:10:53,679
>> Okay, great.

3788
02:10:53,679 --> 02:10:55,920
>> Okay, so we have I didn't know we had so

3789
02:10:55,920 --> 02:10:57,360
many out of compliance signs in the

3790
02:10:57,360 --> 02:10:59,920
city.

3791
02:10:59,920 --> 02:11:03,040
So Brian, help me with help me with dark

3792
02:11:03,040 --> 02:11:04,719
sky

3793
02:11:04,719 --> 02:11:06,880
to the extent reasonably possible. When

3794
02:11:06,880 --> 02:11:10,079
is it not reasonable to be compliant

3795
02:11:10,079 --> 02:11:11,119
in this?

3796
02:11:11,119 --> 02:11:14,400
>> Um, great question and the kind of why I

3797
02:11:14,400 --> 02:11:16,159
was trying to punt this with my comment

3798
02:11:16,159 --> 02:11:18,159
about the other code provision being

3799
02:11:18,159 --> 02:11:19,920
applicable. Uh, because if the other

3800
02:11:19,920 --> 02:11:21,360
code provision is applicable,

3801
02:11:21,360 --> 02:11:22,000
>> it will address

3802
02:11:22,000 --> 02:11:23,440
>> then then that addresses it and this

3803
02:11:23,440 --> 02:11:25,280
sentence kind of becomes meaningless.

3804
02:11:25,280 --> 02:11:28,320
Uh, I think that is up to at the end of

3805
02:11:28,320 --> 02:11:30,880
the day, it's up to

3806
02:11:30,880 --> 02:11:34,159
Bill's team in approving an application.

3807
02:11:34,159 --> 02:11:35,520
The application is going to have a

3808
02:11:35,520 --> 02:11:37,840
lighting plan in it. The developer is

3809
02:11:37,840 --> 02:11:40,000
going to have to say, "Here's this one

3810
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:42,400
light that for safety reasons needs to

3811
02:11:42,400 --> 02:11:45,040
be this way." And Bill says, "Oh, that's

3812
02:11:45,040 --> 02:11:48,719
a reasonable deviation." And if not, he

3813
02:11:48,719 --> 02:11:50,239
doesn't approve it.

3814
02:11:50,239 --> 02:11:51,679
>> Bill, do you want to add anything to

3815
02:11:51,679 --> 02:11:54,320
that? Well, and and dark sky compliant

3816
02:11:54,320 --> 02:11:56,079
could be that general idea of dark sky.

3817
02:11:56,079 --> 02:11:58,159
So, we have adopted a particular version

3818
02:11:58,159 --> 02:12:01,760
of that to be our city code. And so

3819
02:12:01,760 --> 02:12:02,719
>> tonight

3820
02:12:02,719 --> 02:12:04,000
>> or we will be

3821
02:12:04,000 --> 02:12:05,840
>> we may

3822
02:12:05,840 --> 02:12:07,520
>> by the time this comes to it we may have

3823
02:12:07,520 --> 02:12:08,800
adopted

3824
02:12:08,800 --> 02:12:10,560
>> and in fact and in fact I think that's

3825
02:12:10,560 --> 02:12:11,840
actually a really the point I just made

3826
02:12:11,840 --> 02:12:13,280
I actually think is a really important

3827
02:12:13,280 --> 02:12:14,960
point for thinking about the process

3828
02:12:14,960 --> 02:12:17,599
because I think a lot of the public

3829
02:12:17,599 --> 02:12:20,079
perception of the development agreement

3830
02:12:20,079 --> 02:12:23,599
has focused around once they screw up

3831
02:12:23,599 --> 02:12:25,280
how do we use the development agreement

3832
02:12:25,280 --> 02:12:28,880
to claw them back but in actuality

3833
02:12:28,880 --> 02:12:31,040
the development agreement is about the

3834
02:12:31,040 --> 02:12:33,360
guidelines that Bill's team will use to

3835
02:12:33,360 --> 02:12:35,599
approve the permitting applications

3836
02:12:35,599 --> 02:12:38,000
before they build. So, if they're not in

3837
02:12:38,000 --> 02:12:39,119
compliance with the development

3838
02:12:39,119 --> 02:12:40,560
agreement, they're not going to get to

3839
02:12:40,560 --> 02:12:42,719
build the screw up. Does that make

3840
02:12:42,719 --> 02:12:45,280
sense?

3841
02:12:45,280 --> 02:12:47,199
>> So, just one more question on the on the

3842
02:12:47,199 --> 02:12:51,040
signage um billboard like an uplit

3843
02:12:51,040 --> 02:12:52,639
billboard. Would that be permitted here?

3844
02:12:52,639 --> 02:12:56,639
>> No. Uh if it said come see the battery

3845
02:12:56,639 --> 02:12:57,119
boys.

3846
02:12:57,119 --> 02:12:57,920
>> No more billboard.

3847
02:12:57,920 --> 02:13:00,079
>> Okay. Well, it would just have to be

3848
02:13:00,079 --> 02:13:03,520
within the knit the knit limit we just

3849
02:13:03,520 --> 02:13:04,560
are looking at.

3850
02:13:04,560 --> 02:13:05,760
>> It would have to be within the knit

3851
02:13:05,760 --> 02:13:07,679
limit. It' have to be within the size

3852
02:13:07,679 --> 02:13:10,159
limitations for that zone and area. It'd

3853
02:13:10,159 --> 02:13:12,000
have to meet all of the lighting

3854
02:13:12,000 --> 02:13:13,599
requirements. I don't know off the top

3855
02:13:13,599 --> 02:13:15,360
of my head what it is. I would say just

3856
02:13:15,360 --> 02:13:16,880
for purpose of this discussion, it

3857
02:13:16,880 --> 02:13:18,800
wouldn't be a billboard because a

3858
02:13:18,800 --> 02:13:21,679
billboard a billboard means advertising

3859
02:13:21,679 --> 02:13:23,440
off premises stuff which wouldn't be

3860
02:13:23,440 --> 02:13:24,639
allowed. That's just flat out

3861
02:13:24,639 --> 02:13:26,719
prohibited. So, it could only be a sign

3862
02:13:26,719 --> 02:13:30,087
that that uh advertises their shows,

3863
02:13:30,087 --> 02:13:31,199
[clears throat] what they're offering on

3864
02:13:31,199 --> 02:13:33,920
site. Bill could speak to better what

3865
02:13:33,920 --> 02:13:36,719
the code allows than I can, but those

3866
02:13:36,719 --> 02:13:38,400
code sections are very restrictive. The

3867
02:13:38,400 --> 02:13:40,320
SC3 zone is very permissive. That's why

3868
02:13:40,320 --> 02:13:44,320
we went in and particularly exempt out

3869
02:13:44,320 --> 02:13:48,719
the provisions of the SC3 zone by those.

3870
02:13:48,719 --> 02:13:49,920
are very restrictive.

3871
02:13:49,920 --> 02:13:51,360
>> Okay.

3872
02:13:51,360 --> 02:13:55,119
>> I may mention a few things. Um, so one

3873
02:13:55,119 --> 02:13:56,480
of the things that will be important for

3874
02:13:56,480 --> 02:13:58,079
us is to be able to advertise who the

3875
02:13:58,079 --> 02:13:59,599
performers are and those will obviously

3876
02:13:59,599 --> 02:14:01,679
change every week. Um, and so the

3877
02:14:01,679 --> 02:14:04,560
electronic signage there's there's um

3878
02:14:04,560 --> 02:14:07,040
there's brightness requirements and

3879
02:14:07,040 --> 02:14:10,159
there are um the frequency of changing

3880
02:14:10,159 --> 02:14:11,520
requirements so you can't change it like

3881
02:14:11,520 --> 02:14:12,880
every 10 seconds because that's going to

3882
02:14:12,880 --> 02:14:14,480
really distract ours coming down the

3883
02:14:14,480 --> 02:14:17,199
canyon. But having an electronic sign

3884
02:14:17,199 --> 02:14:19,040
there to to to let people know what

3885
02:14:19,040 --> 02:14:20,480
performers are coaching is an important

3886
02:14:20,480 --> 02:14:22,639
component to this. So it it it is not

3887
02:14:22,639 --> 02:14:24,719
like uh we're not planning on using it

3888
02:14:24,719 --> 02:14:26,639
to you know advert it's not a billboard

3889
02:14:26,639 --> 02:14:28,639
you know there might be hit the merch is

3890
02:14:28,639 --> 02:14:30,000
you know open or the restaurant's open

3891
02:14:30,000 --> 02:14:31,760
for these hours but it's mainly here the

3892
02:14:31,760 --> 02:14:33,199
performers and we kind of float through

3893
02:14:33,199 --> 02:14:37,280
those I think it's every 30 seconds and some of those requirements are not

3894
02:14:37,280 --> 02:14:39,920
just for city it's also do so those U do

3895
02:14:39,920 --> 02:14:41,199
requirements we've got to also meet

3896
02:14:41,199 --> 02:14:42,800
those requirements as well but we it is

3897
02:14:42,800 --> 02:14:44,079
important that we do have an electronic

3898
02:14:44,079 --> 02:14:44,639
sign up there

3899
02:14:44,639 --> 02:14:46,400
>> but isn't that contrary to what was just

3900
02:14:46,400 --> 02:14:46,639
said

3901
02:14:46,639 --> 02:14:48,960
>> yeah I thought yes that's not allowed

3902
02:14:48,960 --> 02:14:50,719
>> the electronics have to make some

3903
02:14:50,719 --> 02:14:52,480
exception what he wants because I don't

3904
02:14:52,480 --> 02:14:53,920
know and I knew the signage was going to

3905
02:14:53,920 --> 02:14:55,760
be a big deal and now we can

3906
02:14:55,760 --> 02:14:57,040
>> so that's why we

3907
02:14:57,040 --> 02:14:58,239
>> and that's why I just wanted to make

3908
02:14:58,239 --> 02:15:00,159
sure we are all

3909
02:15:00,159 --> 02:15:01,520
about this

3910
02:15:01,520 --> 02:15:03,520
>> let's uh we were pretty explicit about

3911
02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:04,960
making sure we would have the ability to

3912
02:15:04,960 --> 02:15:06,960
do I think it was a 75 foot square foot

3913
02:15:06,960 --> 02:15:09,440
75 square foot electronic sign so Bill

3914
02:15:09,440 --> 02:15:11,199
if that's not accurate we will

3915
02:15:11,199 --> 02:15:12,560
absolutely need to change that because

3916
02:15:12,560 --> 02:15:13,760
that's going to be something that's very

3917
02:15:13,760 --> 02:15:14,239
important

3918
02:15:14,239 --> 02:15:16,719
>> I'm not open to that not in the county

3919
02:15:16,719 --> 02:15:20,950
I'm I'm open I'm not open to

3920
02:15:20,960 --> 02:15:22,960
Are you open to Greg? Electric sign.

3921
02:15:22,960 --> 02:15:24,719
>> No, I have problem that too. Um

3922
02:15:24,719 --> 02:15:31,440
>> well like think about Snowbird and they have wooden signs. They don't have

3923
02:15:31,440 --> 02:15:33,679
a huge big

3924
02:15:33,679 --> 02:15:35,599
>> snow solitude,

3925
02:15:35,599 --> 02:15:37,599
>> right? Um but they also I mean

3926
02:15:37,599 --> 02:15:39,679
performing the performance venue

3927
02:15:39,679 --> 02:15:42,480
perspective. I guess my hope would be

3928
02:15:42,480 --> 02:15:45,119
it's not like we're it's not a it's not

3929
02:15:45,119 --> 02:15:47,599
a casino. Um, it's something that allows

3930
02:15:47,599 --> 02:15:49,440
us to put in, you know, you according to

3931
02:15:49,440 --> 02:15:51,280
UDOT's requirements, we can put in a

3932
02:15:51,280 --> 02:15:52,639
small electronic sign to be able to

3933
02:15:52,639 --> 02:15:54,159
advertise who's coming through there.

3934
02:15:54,159 --> 02:15:56,719
So, it's very low-key and, uh, again, I

3935
02:15:56,719 --> 02:15:58,239
realize this may not be super popular

3936
02:15:58,239 --> 02:16:00,239
with the with the council. U, that's

3937
02:16:00,239 --> 02:16:01,440
something that's really, really

3938
02:16:01,440 --> 02:16:03,440
important to us, uh, to be able to say

3939
02:16:03,440 --> 02:16:05,520
Bruno is coming or, you know, whoever it

3940
02:16:05,520 --> 02:16:06,719
is that's going to be coming. So,

3941
02:16:06,719 --> 02:16:08,639
>> no, the mall has one that's under UD do

3942
02:16:08,639 --> 02:16:13,119
requirements and they it's a problem. I would not be supportive of it in any

3943
02:16:13,119 --> 02:16:15,199
way, shape, or form. If UD do is control

3944
02:16:15,199 --> 02:16:16,159
of it or not,

3945
02:16:16,159 --> 02:16:17,760
>> how is it a problem? What in what ways

3946
02:16:17,760 --> 02:16:19,360
is it a problem? We fix those problems

3947
02:16:19,360 --> 02:16:21,040
on Vesper.

3948
02:16:21,040 --> 02:16:22,800
>> I don't know because it's an enforcement

3949
02:16:22,800 --> 02:16:23,520
problem.

3950
02:16:23,520 --> 02:16:24,159
>> Yeah.

3951
02:16:24,159 --> 02:16:27,199
>> And it's a huge enforcement problem.

3952
02:16:27,199 --> 02:16:29,840
>> The turn it's a huge problem.

3953
02:16:29,840 --> 02:16:31,440
>> Yeah. And we don't we don't we don't

3954
02:16:31,440 --> 02:16:32,559
want to be a problem. Well, obviously

3955
02:16:32,559 --> 02:16:33,760
from a safety perspective, that's

3956
02:16:33,760 --> 02:16:34,880
something that's incredibly important

3957
02:16:34,880 --> 02:16:37,359
for us. But, you know, again, I don't

3958
02:16:37,359 --> 02:16:38,719
know how we let people know who's coming

3959
02:16:38,719 --> 02:16:40,880
to the venue. um having an electronic

3960
02:16:40,880 --> 02:16:43,359
sign even if it's a minimal sign that's

3961
02:16:43,359 --> 02:16:45,519
very you know bland or you know boring

3962
02:16:45,519 --> 02:16:46,880
colors or whatever it's going to take to

3963
02:16:46,880 --> 02:16:48,719
make sure it's not a distraction we have

3964
02:16:48,719 --> 02:16:50,240
to have the ability to put that out

3965
02:16:50,240 --> 02:16:51,439
there so that's something that's really

3966
02:16:51,439 --> 02:16:54,080
important for us

3967
02:16:54,080 --> 02:16:59,190
>> councelor McKay chair mcc

3968
02:16:59,200 --> 02:17:00,719
» I just want to better understand your

3969
02:17:00,719 --> 02:17:03,519
concern is your concern any sign or is

3970
02:17:03,519 --> 02:17:06,559
it because the mall sign is not

3971
02:17:06,559 --> 02:17:08,399
>> you are absolutely right that that is

3972
02:17:08,399 --> 02:17:11,840
not in compl liance with anything. So,

3973
02:17:11,840 --> 02:17:16,479
um, if the sign were in compliance,

3974
02:17:16,479 --> 02:17:19,040
would it still be a problem for you or

3975
02:17:19,040 --> 02:17:20,559
is it that you're worried it will be out

3976
02:17:20,559 --> 02:17:21,760
of compliance? I just want to better

3977
02:17:21,760 --> 02:17:23,925
understand your concern.

3978
02:17:23,925 --> 02:17:26,070
[sighs and gasps]

3979
02:17:26,080 --> 02:17:27,840
» I wouldn't want anything electronic in

3980
02:17:27,840 --> 02:17:30,080
the mouth of the canyon at all. Period.

3981
02:17:30,080 --> 02:17:32,559
And I was addressing his concern of we

3982
02:17:32,559 --> 02:17:35,120
have certain things in play that UD do

3983
02:17:35,120 --> 02:17:37,920
has rules and standards and I'm like no

3984
02:17:37,920 --> 02:17:39,840
they may have those but it's it's an

3985
02:17:39,840 --> 02:17:41,439
enforcement problem.

3986
02:17:41,439 --> 02:17:42,160
>> It has been.

3987
02:17:42,160 --> 02:17:44,719
>> So if it's Right. So what I'm I'm just

3988
02:17:44,719 --> 02:17:46,559
wondering is it the enforcement that's

3989
02:17:46,559 --> 02:17:48,719
the problem or is it just any sign in

3990
02:17:48,719 --> 02:17:49,040
general?

3991
02:17:49,040 --> 02:17:50,479
>> I think any sign in general of the

3992
02:17:50,479 --> 02:17:51,200
county would be

3993
02:17:51,200 --> 02:17:54,399
>> Yeah. I I would weigh in as well. Um you

3994
02:17:54,399 --> 02:17:57,679
UD do is no comfort to me at all.

3995
02:17:57,679 --> 02:18:01,040
uh especially since it's in the canyon.

3996
02:18:01,040 --> 02:18:02,240
Uh that's part of the challenge of

3997
02:18:02,240 --> 02:18:07,519
having this in the canyon. So yeah, any kind of electronic I think is

3998
02:18:07,519 --> 02:18:08,639
problematic. Not necessarily the

3999
02:18:08,639 --> 02:18:11,040
enforcement, but I don't think it meets

4000
02:18:11,040 --> 02:18:12,319
the aesthetic of the cane.

4001
02:18:12,319 --> 02:18:12,559
>> Yeah,

4002
02:18:12,559 --> 02:18:14,240
>> that's the challenge.

4003
02:18:14,240 --> 02:18:16,399
>> Is are there design elements that we

4004
02:18:16,399 --> 02:18:17,840
could try to work through with the

4005
02:18:17,840 --> 02:18:20,080
council to find some solution to that?

4006
02:18:20,080 --> 02:18:23,439
Because again, having somebody with the gas station guy with the sign, you

4007
02:18:23,439 --> 02:18:24,880
know, going putting the letters and

4008
02:18:24,880 --> 02:18:26,800
numbers, that looks very unprofessional.

4009
02:18:26,800 --> 02:18:28,880
Um, but I don't know how else we would

4010
02:18:28,880 --> 02:18:30,479
advertise who's coming to the site other

4011
02:18:30,479 --> 02:18:32,160
than online, which is where most of the

4012
02:18:32,160 --> 02:18:33,679
work's going to be done anyway, but

4013
02:18:33,679 --> 02:18:36,399
something very kind of muted, you know,

4014
02:18:36,399 --> 02:18:38,160
not bright, not not loud, but something

4015
02:18:38,160 --> 02:18:39,599
that allows

4016
02:18:39,599 --> 02:18:41,599
>> Have you se Have you seen the remarkable

4017
02:18:41,599 --> 02:18:44,639
pad that people use and they write on it

4018
02:18:44,639 --> 02:18:45,760
looks like a book

4019
02:18:45,760 --> 02:18:48,160
>> like and people buy it so they can get

4020
02:18:48,160 --> 02:18:49,439
this?

4021
02:18:49,439 --> 02:18:52,639
>> That's an electronic device. So, it's

4022
02:18:52,639 --> 02:18:54,399
something like that where we don't have

4023
02:18:54,399 --> 02:18:57,040
to actually pay somebody to walk out and

4024
02:18:57,040 --> 02:18:58,399
put up letters.

4025
02:18:58,399 --> 02:19:00,559
>> But see, that's that's different. A

4026
02:19:00,559 --> 02:19:02,800
muted black and white and gray that's

4027
02:19:02,800 --> 02:19:05,280
different than a color sonic.

4028
02:19:05,280 --> 02:19:06,800
>> Perfect. So, I think that's where I'm

4029
02:19:06,800 --> 02:19:08,240
trying to get to is

4030
02:19:08,240 --> 02:19:11,200
>> it's it maybe isn't the electronic

4031
02:19:11,200 --> 02:19:13,120
that's the problem as much

4032
02:19:13,120 --> 02:19:14,160
>> the radiant light,

4033
02:19:14,160 --> 02:19:16,719
>> the aesthetic. Yeah. Aesthetics of it.

4034
02:19:16,719 --> 02:19:19,920
So, maybe we can come back. May maybe

4035
02:19:19,920 --> 02:19:21,519
you guys can make a motion that would

4036
02:19:21,519 --> 02:19:23,679
say, you know, this is kind of what we

4037
02:19:23,679 --> 02:19:25,359
want. And then we can come back with

4038
02:19:25,359 --> 02:19:27,200
some ideas of what that sign would look

4039
02:19:27,200 --> 02:19:30,800
like, but we definitely don't want a

4040
02:19:30,800 --> 02:19:33,439
>> a big colorful sign flashing backstreet

4041
02:19:33,439 --> 02:19:35,439
boys and their colorful stuff. We're

4042
02:19:35,439 --> 02:19:37,040
just trying to be able to advertise

4043
02:19:37,040 --> 02:19:38,639
without sending an employee.

4044
02:19:38,639 --> 02:19:40,399
>> Jeff, I'll make that exemption. Well,

4045
02:19:40,399 --> 02:19:42,786
because the biggest thing in our like

4046
02:19:42,786 --> 02:19:43,359
[laughter]

4047
02:19:43,359 --> 02:19:45,280
I think I think there's also just a to

4048
02:19:45,280 --> 02:19:46,800
your I think there's just a question too

4049
02:19:46,800 --> 02:19:49,520
about those code that reference code on

4050
02:19:49,520 --> 02:19:51,680
what our definition of electronic is

4051
02:19:51,680 --> 02:19:54,479
because as of right now it's actually

4052
02:19:54,479 --> 02:19:55,760
not what we're saying in this meeting

4053
02:19:55,760 --> 02:19:57,280
that's operative it's that code that's

4054
02:19:57,280 --> 02:19:58,560
operative

4055
02:19:58,560 --> 02:19:59,760
>> right so what

4056
02:19:59,760 --> 02:20:01,120
>> and that's why I want to pull everyone

4057
02:20:01,120 --> 02:20:03,359
to the code so if Kevin could pull up

4058
02:20:03,359 --> 02:20:05,600
143810

4059
02:20:05,600 --> 02:20:06,080
>> well

4060
02:20:06,080 --> 02:20:07,280
>> subsection 3

4061
02:20:07,280 --> 02:20:09,120
>> can I because we're so short on time I

4062
02:20:09,120 --> 02:20:11,280
have a I have an alternative idea.

4063
02:20:11,280 --> 02:20:11,680
>> Okay.

4064
02:20:11,680 --> 02:20:13,200
>> I think this is the first that most of

4065
02:20:13,200 --> 02:20:17,040
us are hearing explicitly that

4066
02:20:17,040 --> 02:20:19,680
electronic sign is is anticipated.

4067
02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:20,319
>> Yes. Yeah.

4068
02:20:20,319 --> 02:20:22,560
>> So rather I think than delve into what

4069
02:20:22,560 --> 02:20:24,800
the the development agreement currently

4070
02:20:24,800 --> 02:20:26,560
says and what our code currently says.

4071
02:20:26,560 --> 02:20:29,520
It seems to me like the two avenues are

4072
02:20:29,520 --> 02:20:31,840
if the majority of the council is no

4073
02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:34,240
matter what no matter no how no way

4074
02:20:34,240 --> 02:20:36,160
there will be no electronic signs then a

4075
02:20:36,160 --> 02:20:37,439
motion to say that right now and get

4076
02:20:37,439 --> 02:20:39,439
that on the table would be great.

4077
02:20:39,439 --> 02:20:42,000
Alternatively, what I'm hearing is I

4078
02:20:42,000 --> 02:20:43,520
think that in the next version of the

4079
02:20:43,520 --> 02:20:45,600
development agreement, the developer

4080
02:20:45,600 --> 02:20:48,000
needs to make an explicit proposal that

4081
02:20:48,000 --> 02:20:50,080
allows them to do what they want to do

4082
02:20:50,080 --> 02:20:51,600
that they think will satisfy your

4083
02:20:51,600 --> 02:20:53,439
concerns and you'll review that when

4084
02:20:53,439 --> 02:20:55,520
they've submitted it. That that I think

4085
02:20:55,520 --> 02:20:57,760
is probably the better option than

4086
02:20:57,760 --> 02:20:59,439
trying to dig into what the agreement in

4087
02:20:59,439 --> 02:21:00,640
the code says right now.

4088
02:21:00,640 --> 02:21:03,760
>> But if that's the case, enforcement is

4089
02:21:03,760 --> 02:21:05,760
still a problem, right? I mean, we can't

4090
02:21:05,760 --> 02:21:07,280
get anything done with that mall sign.

4091
02:21:07,280 --> 02:21:09,359
We haven't been able to do it for years.

4092
02:21:09,359 --> 02:21:10,399
>> Which mall sign?

4093
02:21:10,399 --> 02:21:12,960
>> The big one on the freeway that turns

4094
02:21:12,960 --> 02:21:14,960
really fast and is too bright. And

4095
02:21:14,960 --> 02:21:16,399
>> you talk about the Provo Mall.

4096
02:21:16,399 --> 02:21:18,800
>> Yeah. Provo Town and Center Mall.

4097
02:21:18,800 --> 02:21:19,680
>> Yeah.

4098
02:21:19,680 --> 02:21:21,280
>> Well, um

4099
02:21:21,280 --> 02:21:23,200
>> Yeah. I don't know that I I think that

4100
02:21:23,200 --> 02:21:24,880
sound I think that sounds reasonable.

4101
02:21:24,880 --> 02:21:25,280
>> Yeah.

4102
02:21:25,280 --> 02:21:26,880
>> Um again,

4103
02:21:26,880 --> 02:21:29,359
>> yeah, you've heard our concerns. No

4104
02:21:29,359 --> 02:21:32,160
electronic. I I not even like colors,

4105
02:21:32,160 --> 02:21:34,960
but if it was muted, if it was in how

4106
02:21:34,960 --> 02:21:37,200
it's presented, that would make a

4107
02:21:37,200 --> 02:21:38,960
difference to me. Again, I would want

4108
02:21:38,960 --> 02:21:41,760
the venue to be successful. I I don't

4109
02:21:41,760 --> 02:21:44,000
want it to even look remotely like the

4110
02:21:44,000 --> 02:21:46,240
mall or like Vegas or anything like

4111
02:21:46,240 --> 02:21:50,560
that. that and we we all say that but it

4112
02:21:50,560 --> 02:21:52,640
has to show up specifically in I think

4113
02:21:52,640 --> 02:21:55,359
we have to be taking specific renderings

4114
02:21:55,359 --> 02:21:56,399
that

4115
02:21:56,399 --> 02:21:57,920
>> and the reason I wanted to bring up the

4116
02:21:57,920 --> 02:22:00,720
code is what it's referred to says

4117
02:22:00,720 --> 02:22:03,359
animated signs are prohibited so no

4118
02:22:03,359 --> 02:22:07,120
animations at all and even for this area

4119
02:22:07,120 --> 02:22:09,359
if they use an electronic display one

4120
02:22:09,359 --> 02:22:12,240
they can't do any short hold time

4121
02:22:12,240 --> 02:22:14,720
electronic displays where this is

4122
02:22:14,720 --> 02:22:16,960
located. Yeah, we've looked at this

4123
02:22:16,960 --> 02:22:18,640
pretty extensively, Rachel, to Rachel's

4124
02:22:18,640 --> 02:22:20,319
point, and that's that's important for

4125
02:22:20,319 --> 02:22:22,319
us. Having the ability to do electronic

4126
02:22:22,319 --> 02:22:24,000
sign is important for us again.

4127
02:22:24,000 --> 02:22:28,880
>> So, like some of the things that we're scared of, Bill has already put in

4128
02:22:28,880 --> 02:22:30,640
by this reference to the code that would

4129
02:22:30,640 --> 02:22:33,760
make it so that would not happen.

4130
02:22:33,760 --> 02:22:35,520
>> Yeah, exactly.

4131
02:22:35,520 --> 02:22:37,120
>> No, we're we're saying we're saying that

4132
02:22:37,120 --> 02:22:38,640
what the ordinance says is what we're

4133
02:22:38,640 --> 02:22:40,000
comfortable with living.

4134
02:22:40,000 --> 02:22:40,319
>> Oh,

4135
02:22:40,319 --> 02:22:41,920
>> that that says that we can do electronic

4136
02:22:41,920 --> 02:22:44,880
signs in the ordinance. That's why we

4137
02:22:44,880 --> 02:22:46,319
>> But what what is short hold though?

4138
02:22:46,319 --> 02:22:47,040
Because

4139
02:22:47,040 --> 02:22:48,880
>> short hole I think is defined by a

4140
02:22:48,880 --> 02:22:49,280
certain amount.

4141
02:22:49,280 --> 02:22:51,280
>> Is it defined? Because what I heard you

4142
02:22:51,280 --> 02:22:52,800
saying you want some ability to to

4143
02:22:52,800 --> 02:22:54,720
rotate through like 30 seconds, a

4144
02:22:54,720 --> 02:22:56,319
minute, 2 minutes.

4145
02:22:56,319 --> 02:22:57,359
>> But but I think what I'm reading there

4146
02:22:57,359 --> 02:22:58,720
is that it could it just has to be what

4147
02:22:58,720 --> 02:23:01,439
it is for a long period of time. But it

4148
02:23:01,439 --> 02:23:03,280
pretty sensibly. If we can just move on,

4149
02:23:03,280 --> 02:23:05,040
I think

4150
02:23:05,040 --> 02:23:06,399
that and that's why I said I think it's

4151
02:23:06,399 --> 02:23:08,399
up to them to say this doesn't work for

4152
02:23:08,399 --> 02:23:09,359
us. Yeah,

4153
02:23:09,359 --> 02:23:11,359
>> we'll figure out what their restrictions

4154
02:23:11,359 --> 02:23:12,640
are and they'll tell us what they can

4155
02:23:12,640 --> 02:23:13,840
and can't live with and then we'll

4156
02:23:13,840 --> 02:23:14,960
decide whether you can or can't live

4157
02:23:14,960 --> 02:23:15,520
with that. But

4158
02:23:15,520 --> 02:23:17,359
>> I I just think it's useful for us to

4159
02:23:17,359 --> 02:23:19,920
know what the restrictions are in this

4160
02:23:19,920 --> 02:23:21,600
current development agreement.

4161
02:23:21,600 --> 02:23:22,080
>> Yeah.

4162
02:23:22,080 --> 02:23:22,720
>> And

4163
02:23:22,720 --> 02:23:26,080
>> but what you read also doesn't seem to

4164
02:23:26,080 --> 02:23:27,520
address some of the concerns expressed

4165
02:23:27,520 --> 02:23:31,600
by the council on colors and and

4166
02:23:31,600 --> 02:23:32,640
color.

4167
02:23:32,640 --> 02:23:35,359
>> Yeah. Can I make one more mention just

4168
02:23:35,359 --> 02:23:37,200
with on the language? Sorry, I'm I'm

4169
02:23:37,200 --> 02:23:39,120
jumping around. Do we want to make a

4170
02:23:39,120 --> 02:23:41,359
motion on that part or or should I jump

4171
02:23:41,359 --> 02:23:42,479
to my next?

4172
02:23:42,479 --> 02:23:44,080
>> I I think we've covered one.

4173
02:23:44,080 --> 02:23:46,640
>> I I think at this point my view of this

4174
02:23:46,640 --> 02:23:48,000
one is we don't need a motion. My view

4175
02:23:48,000 --> 02:23:50,000
is you now know what their concerns are

4176
02:23:50,000 --> 02:23:52,399
and you know what you need. So you

4177
02:23:52,399 --> 02:23:54,399
propose something to fix that meets

4178
02:23:54,399 --> 02:23:54,800
both.

4179
02:23:54,800 --> 02:23:56,720
>> Perfect. My only comment was just on the

4180
02:23:56,720 --> 02:23:58,960
extent reasonably possible on that first

4181
02:23:58,960 --> 02:24:00,319
line, the end of that first line. Brian,

4182
02:24:00,319 --> 02:24:01,680
you were asking about that earlier.

4183
02:24:01,680 --> 02:24:02,080
>> Yeah.

4184
02:24:02,080 --> 02:24:04,319
>> Um again that there's some spotlight

4185
02:24:04,319 --> 02:24:06,640
requirements and performances. there's

4186
02:24:06,640 --> 02:24:08,080
some, you know, some other lighting

4187
02:24:08,080 --> 02:24:09,840
things that don't meet the dark sky

4188
02:24:09,840 --> 02:24:12,000
compliant criteria in order to run a

4189
02:24:12,000 --> 02:24:12,960
successful venue.

4190
02:24:12,960 --> 02:24:15,040
>> But you're talking about the stage

4191
02:24:15,040 --> 02:24:17,520
itself, right? Not the

4192
02:24:17,520 --> 02:24:18,880
>> parking lot or whatever. So, that's

4193
02:24:18,880 --> 02:24:20,479
something that we just that I think that

4194
02:24:20,479 --> 02:24:21,680
would be something else we would want to

4195
02:24:21,680 --> 02:24:22,720
be explicit about.

4196
02:24:22,720 --> 02:24:24,080
>> Okay. And the only reason why I'm saying

4197
02:24:24,080 --> 02:24:26,080
that is to say that language is in there

4198
02:24:26,080 --> 02:24:27,760
for a reason. Yeah. We wouldn't want to

4199
02:24:27,760 --> 02:24:29,600
take it out because there are uh

4200
02:24:29,600 --> 02:24:31,600
extenduating circumstances that would

4201
02:24:31,600 --> 02:24:33,520
make Yeah. for certain under certain

4202
02:24:33,520 --> 02:24:35,680
criteria requirements. And now that

4203
02:24:35,680 --> 02:24:37,760
we've got this new dark skies ordinance

4204
02:24:37,760 --> 02:24:38,800
that was talked about earlier in the

4205
02:24:38,800 --> 02:24:40,720
meeting, I think instead of just saying

4206
02:24:40,720 --> 02:24:42,160
reasonably possible, I think we need to

4207
02:24:42,160 --> 02:24:43,280
specify.

4208
02:24:43,280 --> 02:24:43,760
>> Yes.

4209
02:24:43,760 --> 02:24:46,960
>> Uh the the lights that don't fall into

4210
02:24:46,960 --> 02:24:49,520
that category must be compliant and the

4211
02:24:49,520 --> 02:24:52,080
lights that do fall into that category,

4212
02:24:52,080 --> 02:24:53,120
we're going to tell we're going to say

4213
02:24:53,120 --> 02:24:55,225
what they are.

4214
02:24:55,225 --> 02:24:55,520
[clears throat]

4215
02:24:55,520 --> 02:24:59,760
>> Okay. All right. Um

4216
02:24:59,760 --> 02:25:00,960
>> there you go.

4217
02:25:00,960 --> 02:25:03,920
>> Okay. We talked about this one already

4218
02:25:03,920 --> 02:25:05,200
uh when we were talking about parking

4219
02:25:05,200 --> 02:25:07,359
earlier. Any concerns about this

4220
02:25:07,359 --> 02:25:11,120
particular language? Uh this one I don't

4221
02:25:11,120 --> 02:25:12,800
know that there's again I may have been

4222
02:25:12,800 --> 02:25:16,240
over inclusive about what I uh included.

4223
02:25:16,240 --> 02:25:18,479
I'm not aware of any at this point

4224
02:25:18,479 --> 02:25:21,200
address uh comments and concerns about

4225
02:25:21,200 --> 02:25:23,040
this. This just says they have to

4226
02:25:23,040 --> 02:25:24,319
provide all the utility and

4227
02:25:24,319 --> 02:25:26,560
coordination. They've got to apply

4228
02:25:26,560 --> 02:25:27,920
they've got to comply with all the

4229
02:25:27,920 --> 02:25:32,000
standards for sewer connections etc. Um,

4230
02:25:32,000 --> 02:25:33,600
and that they've got to repair stuff

4231
02:25:33,600 --> 02:25:36,000
that they tear up to put in the

4232
02:25:36,000 --> 02:25:37,439
utilities.

4233
02:25:37,439 --> 02:25:39,439
>> I have a question that involves this

4234
02:25:39,439 --> 02:25:40,080
infrastructure.

4235
02:25:40,080 --> 02:25:40,720
>> Yeah.

4236
02:25:40,720 --> 02:25:42,240
>> The

4237
02:25:42,240 --> 02:25:44,080
>> Does your price that you put in your

4238
02:25:44,080 --> 02:25:46,160
stuff include the infrastructures

4239
02:25:46,160 --> 02:25:48,560
include or is the price you gave just

4240
02:25:48,560 --> 02:25:50,000
what's on your property

4241
02:25:50,000 --> 02:25:51,280
>> or does it include all the road

4242
02:25:51,280 --> 02:25:57,190
infrastructure?

4243
02:25:57,200 --> 02:25:58,160
» Interchange.

4244
02:25:58,160 --> 02:26:01,439
>> No, not that. So, UD do it does include

4245
02:26:01,439 --> 02:26:03,439
the overpass, but it does not include

4246
02:26:03,439 --> 02:26:06,880
improvements uh on 800 North. So, we we

4247
02:26:06,880 --> 02:26:08,399
still aren't sure exactly what UD do is

4248
02:26:08,399 --> 02:26:10,000
going required, not required. We've gone

4249
02:26:10,000 --> 02:26:11,359
everywhere from it's okay the way that

4250
02:26:11,359 --> 02:26:13,120
it is to there's a lot of things that

4251
02:26:13,120 --> 02:26:14,880
need to be done. So, we're trying to

4252
02:26:14,880 --> 02:26:16,240
figure out what those requirements are

4253
02:26:16,240 --> 02:26:17,600
and those weren't included either.

4254
02:26:17,600 --> 02:26:19,520
>> They require it. This includes all your

4255
02:26:19,520 --> 02:26:20,560
public work stuff.

4256
02:26:20,560 --> 02:26:23,200
>> All the public work, all the utilities,

4257
02:26:23,200 --> 02:26:25,680
all the water, all the

4258
02:26:25,680 --> 02:26:28,080
>> correct. Yeah. all the on-site stuff as

4259
02:26:28,080 --> 02:26:30,319
well as the overpass and unique

4260
02:26:30,319 --> 02:26:32,319
utilities.

4261
02:26:32,319 --> 02:26:35,760
>> And are you planning on

4262
02:26:35,760 --> 02:26:38,000
are any of these utilities you're doing

4263
02:26:38,000 --> 02:26:40,319
going to be assets for another

4264
02:26:40,319 --> 02:26:44,560
development found or is it all yours?

4265
02:26:44,560 --> 02:26:47,600
>> Um there would be some share in water

4266
02:26:47,600 --> 02:26:49,280
infrastructure. Water just the nature of

4267
02:26:49,280 --> 02:26:50,720
water and how it works is it's kind of

4268
02:26:50,720 --> 02:26:52,240
built in loops and so there would be

4269
02:26:52,240 --> 02:26:54,000
other benefits that other developments

4270
02:26:54,000 --> 02:26:55,840
would have as well as other parts of the

4271
02:26:55,840 --> 02:26:58,000
city. I I couldn't talk into specifics.

4272
02:26:58,000 --> 02:26:59,760
Gordon Gordon could probably address

4273
02:26:59,760 --> 02:27:01,359
those. But yeah, there there is some

4274
02:27:01,359 --> 02:27:03,040
benefits there that other folks will

4275
02:27:03,040 --> 02:27:05,280
benefit from. Um the sewer might be

4276
02:27:05,280 --> 02:27:06,880
another one where we would build

4277
02:27:06,880 --> 02:27:09,120
capacity in the main line coming up to

4278
02:27:09,120 --> 02:27:10,880
Vesper. Once it peels off to go up to

4279
02:27:10,880 --> 02:27:12,720
Vesper, it would be just for our site,

4280
02:27:12,720 --> 02:27:14,880
but the size and the capacity the

4281
02:27:14,880 --> 02:27:16,720
capacity of the of the pipe would be a

4282
02:27:16,720 --> 02:27:18,800
lot larger. We're dealing with stuff up

4283
02:27:18,800 --> 02:27:22,240
the road uh at some point down the road

4284
02:27:22,240 --> 02:27:24,160
up the can at some point down the road.

4285
02:27:24,160 --> 02:27:25,359
But

4286
02:27:25,359 --> 02:27:27,439
>> was that something they had to end up

4287
02:27:27,439 --> 02:27:29,600
paying for 100% and there's no

4288
02:27:29,600 --> 02:27:31,439
>> so the development that we had the

4289
02:27:31,439 --> 02:27:34,319
annexation filling the tank and they're

4290
02:27:34,319 --> 02:27:36,560
paying part of it that development part

4291
02:27:36,560 --> 02:27:38,640
of it. So there are shared costs.

4292
02:27:38,640 --> 02:27:41,840
There's also the sewer line in Canyon

4293
02:27:41,840 --> 02:27:43,359
Road that we've talked about being

4294
02:27:43,359 --> 02:27:45,520
undersized. They're going to upsize

4295
02:27:45,520 --> 02:27:47,280
that. That'll help everybody up and down

4296
02:27:47,280 --> 02:27:49,280
the street. So there are things that

4297
02:27:49,280 --> 02:27:50,960
they're going to do that to help a whole

4298
02:27:50,960 --> 02:27:53,840
bunch of people across this. Well, and

4299
02:27:53,840 --> 02:27:55,920
didn't the packet say that they had that

4300
02:27:55,920 --> 02:27:58,319
statemandated what is it 15 years that

4301
02:27:58,319 --> 02:28:00,000
if anybody hooks into it, then they have

4302
02:28:00,000 --> 02:28:01,840
to pay a portion of it and that goes

4303
02:28:01,840 --> 02:28:02,240
back.

4304
02:28:02,240 --> 02:28:05,120
>> They have a planer agreeing somebody

4305
02:28:05,120 --> 02:28:06,880
stuff they get some reimbursement and

4306
02:28:06,880 --> 02:28:07,760
that will work

4307
02:28:07,760 --> 02:28:09,520
>> and it ends at 15 years. So, somebody

4308
02:28:09,520 --> 02:28:11,359
builds

4309
02:28:11,359 --> 02:28:13,439
>> so somebody builds an 11year thing.

4310
02:28:13,439 --> 02:28:15,040
>> It's our agreement that we have with

4311
02:28:15,040 --> 02:28:17,280
them and it's a 10year process.

4312
02:28:17,280 --> 02:28:19,280
>> Do we deal with that with impact fees or

4313
02:28:19,280 --> 02:28:22,880
do they put a check to them?

4314
02:28:22,880 --> 02:28:24,960
um they'll be paying some impact fees,

4315
02:28:24,960 --> 02:28:26,240
but they'll be going into some

4316
02:28:26,240 --> 02:28:28,160
improvements, but this is a pioneering

4317
02:28:28,160 --> 02:28:30,000
agreement that if somebody uses this

4318
02:28:30,000 --> 02:28:32,560
line, they pay enough shared cost for

4319
02:28:32,560 --> 02:28:34,720
those other improvements.

4320
02:28:34,720 --> 02:28:38,950
>> Thanks,

4321
02:28:38,960 --> 02:28:41,359
» All right. Uh,

4322
02:28:41,359 --> 02:28:43,120
keep going.

4323
02:28:43,120 --> 02:28:45,359
>> I was just going to say

4324
02:28:45,359 --> 02:28:48,319
I'm now Kevin has the building materials

4325
02:28:48,319 --> 02:28:50,640
that were included in the application in

4326
02:28:50,640 --> 02:28:53,680
the concept

4327
02:28:53,680 --> 02:28:54,800
that

4328
02:28:54,800 --> 02:28:56,000
>> Do you want to see them now or do you

4329
02:28:56,000 --> 02:28:58,240
want to see them as part of the draft?

4330
02:28:58,240 --> 02:28:59,920
>> I think we probably cover enough.

4331
02:28:59,920 --> 02:29:02,319
>> Yeah,

4332
02:29:02,319 --> 02:29:03,120
>> draft.

4333
02:29:03,120 --> 02:29:06,399
>> Okay. All right. So

4334
02:29:06,399 --> 02:29:08,160
we move moved through a couple ones fast

4335
02:29:08,160 --> 02:29:09,439
and now we're going to slow down again

4336
02:29:09,439 --> 02:29:12,240
probably. So here is the paragraph about

4337
02:29:12,240 --> 02:29:14,720
sound mitigation and hours says that

4338
02:29:14,720 --> 02:29:16,160
they must use commercially reasonable

4339
02:29:16,160 --> 02:29:18,080
efforts to incorporate uh sound

4340
02:29:18,080 --> 02:29:19,600
attenuation and noise mitigation

4341
02:29:19,600 --> 02:29:22,880
technologies and that they have to t uh

4342
02:29:22,880 --> 02:29:25,520
terminate their events no later than 11

4343
02:29:25,520 --> 02:29:26,800
p.m. Sunday through Thursday and

4344
02:29:26,800 --> 02:29:28,560
midnight Friday through Saturday.

4345
02:29:28,560 --> 02:29:29,840
There's been lots of discussion about

4346
02:29:29,840 --> 02:29:31,040
this one and

4347
02:29:31,040 --> 02:29:33,040
>> I want to change it to 10 pm Sunday

4348
02:29:33,040 --> 02:29:36,880
through Thursday and 11 days.

4349
02:29:36,880 --> 02:29:38,640
>> I I was going to put this up just while

4350
02:29:38,640 --> 02:29:40,160
we're talking. This was the response

4351
02:29:40,160 --> 02:29:42,560
that they submitted to that question uh

4352
02:29:42,560 --> 02:29:44,720
in the council packet just so you have

4353
02:29:44,720 --> 02:29:47,200
that for your reference while you're

4354
02:29:47,200 --> 02:29:47,680
talking.

4355
02:29:47,680 --> 02:29:48,399
>> Yes.

4356
02:29:48,399 --> 02:29:49,200
>> Extra language.

4357
02:29:49,200 --> 02:29:51,040
>> Yes.

4358
02:29:51,040 --> 02:29:54,790
>> Um

4359
02:29:54,800 --> 02:29:58,080
my concern is commercially reasonable.

4360
02:29:58,080 --> 02:30:00,640
Why why wouldn't we say specific decimal

4361
02:30:00,640 --> 02:30:03,439
levels at the property line at their

4362
02:30:03,439 --> 02:30:05,280
closest residence line or why wouldn't

4363
02:30:05,280 --> 02:30:08,880
we use specific things like that? Well,

4364
02:30:08,880 --> 02:30:10,399
uh I mean to a certain extent we already

4365
02:30:10,399 --> 02:30:13,040
do because we already have a noise

4366
02:30:13,040 --> 02:30:14,800
ordinance that does say what the decibel

4367
02:30:14,800 --> 02:30:18,160
levels are at the property line. Uh the

4368
02:30:18,160 --> 02:30:21,120
question is whether that is subject to a

4369
02:30:21,120 --> 02:30:22,720
future exemption. Right? Right. I mean

4370
02:30:22,720 --> 02:30:24,880
the stadium for example the football

4371
02:30:24,880 --> 02:30:27,760
stadium is exempted from those decibel

4372
02:30:27,760 --> 02:30:31,520
levels. So there absent anything to the

4373
02:30:31,520 --> 02:30:33,439
contrary those decibel levels that are

4374
02:30:33,439 --> 02:30:35,760
already in the code apply

4375
02:30:35,760 --> 02:30:37,359
>> those could be except

4376
02:30:37,359 --> 02:30:39,760
>> but the council could decide to change

4377
02:30:39,760 --> 02:30:42,000
those at any time or the administration

4378
02:30:42,000 --> 02:30:44,000
actually can grant exemp uh special

4379
02:30:44,000 --> 02:30:46,479
event exemptions to those uh dustful

4380
02:30:46,479 --> 02:30:48,960
levels. So great question and I I think

4381
02:30:48,960 --> 02:30:51,200
that I'm going to turn it over to Brian.

4382
02:30:51,200 --> 02:30:54,240
I think the answer I anticipate him

4383
02:30:54,240 --> 02:30:56,240
saying is that they don't know what

4384
02:30:56,240 --> 02:31:00,000
those would be yet. But

4385
02:31:00,000 --> 02:31:03,760
>> um so if you'll Craig maybe by example

4386
02:31:03,760 --> 02:31:05,439
by way of example can you just flip to

4387
02:31:05,439 --> 02:31:08,880
the next slide. So these are all the

4388
02:31:08,880 --> 02:31:11,120
different venues that we looked at and

4389
02:31:11,120 --> 02:31:13,200
this is an example of how each one of

4390
02:31:13,200 --> 02:31:14,960
them looks at these curfews a little

4391
02:31:14,960 --> 02:31:16,479
differently.

4392
02:31:16,479 --> 02:31:17,920
>> And then you take this

4393
02:31:17,920 --> 02:31:19,520
>> I was going to say but you're

4394
02:31:19,520 --> 02:31:20,960
>> No, we're talking about sound. Okay,

4395
02:31:20,960 --> 02:31:22,319
>> I just wanted to use this, I guess, as

4396
02:31:22,319 --> 02:31:24,960
an example to say commercially

4397
02:31:24,960 --> 02:31:26,640
reasonable standard. The language that

4398
02:31:26,640 --> 02:31:28,479
was included in there was there for a

4399
02:31:28,479 --> 02:31:30,160
reason because just as varied as you see

4400
02:31:30,160 --> 02:31:32,880
the operating kind of curfew times are

4401
02:31:32,880 --> 02:31:35,040
for different venues across the country,

4402
02:31:35,040 --> 02:31:36,880
it is infinitely more complicated when

4403
02:31:36,880 --> 02:31:39,760
it gets to sound. Sound um is based on

4404
02:31:39,760 --> 02:31:41,600
the receptors, the distances of those

4405
02:31:41,600 --> 02:31:43,920
receptors, the topography, how you deal

4406
02:31:43,920 --> 02:31:46,000
with the technology. There's an infinite

4407
02:31:46,000 --> 02:31:47,760
number of solutions. We don't know what

4408
02:31:47,760 --> 02:31:50,000
those solutions right now. I would love

4409
02:31:50,000 --> 02:31:51,680
to be able to say we could go take a

4410
02:31:51,680 --> 02:31:54,160
speaker blast at 110 dB and give you

4411
02:31:54,160 --> 02:31:56,560
guys the answer. We can't. It doesn't

4412
02:31:56,560 --> 02:31:58,640
work that way. We have already been

4413
02:31:58,640 --> 02:32:00,880
engaged significantly with um like

4414
02:32:00,880 --> 02:32:03,520
worldrenowned experts on you know on um

4415
02:32:03,520 --> 02:32:06,560
on acoustics and sound uh technology.

4416
02:32:06,560 --> 02:32:08,960
And so um our proposal would be that we

4417
02:32:08,960 --> 02:32:11,280
are bound by the ordinance today as it

4418
02:32:11,280 --> 02:32:13,120
reads and then we would come in and make

4419
02:32:13,120 --> 02:32:15,280
a proposal to you to say hey this is

4420
02:32:15,280 --> 02:32:17,120
what we're looking at. This is how other

4421
02:32:17,120 --> 02:32:18,640
places do it. This is what Red Rocks

4422
02:32:18,640 --> 02:32:20,399
does. this is what the Hollywood Bowl

4423
02:32:20,399 --> 02:32:21,840
does. This is what all of these folks

4424
02:32:21,840 --> 02:32:23,359
do. Well, we would only do that once we

4425
02:32:23,359 --> 02:32:24,880
have once we're once we're armed with

4426
02:32:24,880 --> 02:32:26,800
the information necessary to be able to

4427
02:32:26,800 --> 02:32:28,479
have that meaningful conversation

4428
02:32:28,479 --> 02:32:32,640
because we have to nail it. It's really, important for us. We want to be

4429
02:32:32,640 --> 02:32:34,240
good neighbors to everybody around us,

4430
02:32:34,240 --> 02:32:35,680
including Provo City and all of our

4431
02:32:35,680 --> 02:32:37,439
neighbors. So, it's important that we

4432
02:32:37,439 --> 02:32:38,880
get this right and we don't have those

4433
02:32:38,880 --> 02:32:41,040
answers right now. So, a lot of that is

4434
02:32:41,040 --> 02:32:42,160
dependent on things I've already

4435
02:32:42,160 --> 02:32:43,680
mentioned, including the screening as

4436
02:32:43,680 --> 02:32:45,600
sound goes off site, as it migrates off

4437
02:32:45,600 --> 02:32:47,760
site. there's a lot of really important

4438
02:32:47,760 --> 02:32:49,280
topographical challenges or

4439
02:32:49,280 --> 02:32:51,600
opportunities I guess I should say um as

4440
02:32:51,600 --> 02:32:55,840
the sound blitters away from those big subwoofers and it blasts into

4441
02:32:55,840 --> 02:32:58,160
the hillside that sound travels upward

4442
02:32:58,160 --> 02:33:00,319
as opposed to uh our neighboring uh

4443
02:33:00,319 --> 02:33:02,160
property owners and anything that does

4444
02:33:02,160 --> 02:33:03,439
travel to those neighboring property

4445
02:33:03,439 --> 02:33:05,600
owners gets hit by other topographical

4446
02:33:05,600 --> 02:33:07,280
features whether that be mountains or

4447
02:33:07,280 --> 02:33:09,120
you know other things. So there's a lot

4448
02:33:09,120 --> 02:33:11,040
that we do know there's a lot that we

4449
02:33:11,040 --> 02:33:12,640
don't know and we will come to you when

4450
02:33:12,640 --> 02:33:13,920
we're ready to make a proposal about

4451
02:33:13,920 --> 02:33:15,680
what that looks like. There will be a

4452
02:33:15,680 --> 02:33:17,200
tremendous amount of monitoring. All the

4453
02:33:17,200 --> 02:33:18,640
things that if you could flip back now,

4454
02:33:18,640 --> 02:33:20,640
Brian, all of those things that we feel

4455
02:33:20,640 --> 02:33:22,960
like were important for us to commit to,

4456
02:33:22,960 --> 02:33:24,960
we've committed to and they're in here.

4457
02:33:24,960 --> 02:33:27,040
Um I I again, there's part of me that

4458
02:33:27,040 --> 02:33:30,240
wishes we could give more, but we're not ready to do that right now

4459
02:33:30,240 --> 02:33:32,160
until we go pay for the the design. We

4460
02:33:32,160 --> 02:33:33,359
know what the stadium looks like. We

4461
02:33:33,359 --> 02:33:34,800
know what the screening looks like. We

4462
02:33:34,800 --> 02:33:36,080
know what the technology looks like. We

4463
02:33:36,080 --> 02:33:39,280
know what all these things look like.

4464
02:33:39,280 --> 02:33:41,280
So, Council Christians, I guess

4465
02:33:41,280 --> 02:33:43,120
following up on that and just stating it

4466
02:33:43,120 --> 02:33:44,960
as my opinion, I guess I would say I

4467
02:33:44,960 --> 02:33:46,319
think you're right to call this out. I

4468
02:33:46,319 --> 02:33:47,760
think this paragraph is essentially just

4469
02:33:47,760 --> 02:33:50,080
a placeholder, right? It's a placeholder

4470
02:33:50,080 --> 02:33:52,399
to say we're going to be working on

4471
02:33:52,399 --> 02:33:54,000
these things and we're going to do the

4472
02:33:54,000 --> 02:33:56,000
best we can. Now, it's not the only

4473
02:33:56,000 --> 02:33:57,200
thing that applies to them. And that's

4474
02:33:57,200 --> 02:33:58,479
where I come back to the sound

4475
02:33:58,479 --> 02:34:01,120
ordinance. It's a placeholder because

4476
02:34:01,120 --> 02:34:03,040
unless they get exempted from the sound

4477
02:34:03,040 --> 02:34:04,240
ordinance, they're going to have to meet

4478
02:34:04,240 --> 02:34:06,560
it. My guess as a non-total non-expert

4479
02:34:06,560 --> 02:34:09,600
is even if they do this, they probably

4480
02:34:09,600 --> 02:34:12,000
can't meet the sound ordinance. So I

4481
02:34:12,000 --> 02:34:14,000
think so my expectation is they're going

4482
02:34:14,000 --> 02:34:16,479
to come back to you with a proposal for

4483
02:34:16,479 --> 02:34:18,240
how they need to be exempted from the

4484
02:34:18,240 --> 02:34:20,319
sound ordinance with the answers to all

4485
02:34:20,319 --> 02:34:21,680
the questions that you're asking right

4486
02:34:21,680 --> 02:34:23,359
now. Does that make does that make

4487
02:34:23,359 --> 02:34:26,790
sense?

4488
02:34:26,800 --> 02:34:28,800
» No. No. I'm not talking about I'm not

4489
02:34:28,800 --> 02:34:30,720
talking about I see what you're saying.

4490
02:34:30,720 --> 02:34:32,319
for the settle orders, they're not going

4491
02:34:32,319 --> 02:34:33,520
to keep it.

4492
02:34:33,520 --> 02:34:35,520
>> Well, I'm not I'm not but when I'm

4493
02:34:35,520 --> 02:34:37,840
talking about exemp exemptions, I'm not

4494
02:34:37,840 --> 02:34:39,600
talking about administrative exemptions.

4495
02:34:39,600 --> 02:34:41,520
I'm talking about the council changing

4496
02:34:41,520 --> 02:34:43,120
the code

4497
02:34:43,120 --> 02:34:44,640
>> in the way that

4498
02:34:44,640 --> 02:34:45,520
>> to include them,

4499
02:34:45,520 --> 02:34:47,120
>> but they can bypass that

4500
02:34:47,120 --> 02:34:49,600
>> the way that we got an exemption for the

4501
02:34:49,600 --> 02:34:50,399
stadium,

4502
02:34:50,399 --> 02:34:51,920
>> right? But they can just go get an

4503
02:34:51,920 --> 02:34:54,560
administrative exception. They will beat

4504
02:34:54,560 --> 02:34:56,240
us. You know what I mean? Like it's

4505
02:34:56,240 --> 02:34:58,479
>> I'm trying to remember if there's a

4506
02:34:58,479 --> 02:35:01,600
seems to me like there's a limit on uh

4507
02:35:01,600 --> 02:35:03,040
>> like there's businesses right now that

4508
02:35:03,040 --> 02:35:05,520
don't keep us out rules and they get

4509
02:35:05,520 --> 02:35:08,240
exempted.

4510
02:35:08,240 --> 02:35:09,760
>> Well, ex I mean there's two different

4511
02:35:09,760 --> 02:35:11,200
questions there. Are you talking about

4512
02:35:11,200 --> 02:35:12,800
proactive exemptions or are you talking

4513
02:35:12,800 --> 02:35:16,800
about a code enforcement issue? Um

4514
02:35:16,800 --> 02:35:19,280
the proactive exemptions we could

4515
02:35:19,280 --> 02:35:23,120
certainly address, right? Um I I think

4516
02:35:23,120 --> 02:35:25,359
there's a limit on how many times a year

4517
02:35:25,359 --> 02:35:28,800
those can be granted. But if not, one

4518
02:35:28,800 --> 02:35:32,000
possibility is we do modify this so that

4519
02:35:32,000 --> 02:35:34,800
to rule that out. Uh, one of the other

4520
02:35:34,800 --> 02:35:35,920
things Brian and I talked about, and

4521
02:35:35,920 --> 02:35:37,840
again, I'll just throw this out there

4522
02:35:37,840 --> 02:35:39,280
because I don't know how satisfactory it

4523
02:35:39,280 --> 02:35:41,600
is, is to put in a little bit more

4524
02:35:41,600 --> 02:35:44,319
detail about what they intend to do, and

4525
02:35:44,319 --> 02:35:45,600
instead of just saying commercially

4526
02:35:45,600 --> 02:35:49,040
reasonable, say something like are going

4527
02:35:49,040 --> 02:35:51,439
to conduct the following studies, turn

4528
02:35:51,439 --> 02:35:54,080
the reports over to the city for review,

4529
02:35:54,080 --> 02:35:56,479
and follow the recommendations of the

4530
02:35:56,479 --> 02:35:59,200
experts in those studies kind of thing.

4531
02:35:59,200 --> 02:36:00,880
That that would be a way to beef it up

4532
02:36:00,880 --> 02:36:05,990
without coming to a number.

4533
02:36:06,000 --> 02:36:07,680
Uh just following up on councelor

4534
02:36:07,680 --> 02:36:10,800
McCay's question like

4535
02:36:10,800 --> 02:36:12,640
some examples how how are they dealt

4536
02:36:12,640 --> 02:36:16,240
with today? Like for example BYU games

4537
02:36:16,240 --> 02:36:17,840
rooftop concert series like what's the

4538
02:36:17,840 --> 02:36:19,600
difference between like a code I'm not

4539
02:36:19,600 --> 02:36:20,800
super familiar with our sound code at

4540
02:36:20,800 --> 02:36:23,200
the moment but like a code codified

4541
02:36:23,200 --> 02:36:24,479
exemption versus a one-off

4542
02:36:24,479 --> 02:36:25,600
administrative exemption.

4543
02:36:25,600 --> 02:36:28,080
>> So rooftop is one-off exemptions. BYU

4544
02:36:28,080 --> 02:36:30,319
stadium and all sports fields in the

4545
02:36:30,319 --> 02:36:35,439
city are permanent exemptions uh for

4546
02:36:35,439 --> 02:36:38,640
uh not e extra mural regularly scheduled

4547
02:36:38,640 --> 02:36:40,960
athletic activities. So the football

4548
02:36:40,960 --> 02:36:44,399
stadium is exempted by code rooftop is

4549
02:36:44,399 --> 02:36:45,760
administrative.

4550
02:36:45,760 --> 02:36:51,110
>> Okay. Thank you.

4551
02:36:51,120 --> 02:36:53,600
So, we went to a concert and it was

4552
02:36:53,600 --> 02:36:55,200
raining

4553
02:36:55,200 --> 02:36:56,960
and in order to extend it, they got an

4554
02:36:56,960 --> 02:37:00,080
exemption from the city to extend it

4555
02:37:00,080 --> 02:37:02,720
past the curfew hours, right? So, is

4556
02:37:02,720 --> 02:37:06,319
that also an exemption that we offer?

4557
02:37:06,319 --> 02:37:07,920
But, so even if we did put a curfew

4558
02:37:07,920 --> 02:37:09,600
down, they could still extend it past

4559
02:37:09,600 --> 02:37:12,800
there. What What is our parameters in

4560
02:37:12,800 --> 02:37:13,439
that?

4561
02:37:13,439 --> 02:37:15,920
>> Scott,

4562
02:37:15,920 --> 02:37:18,720
>> it really does go by event. It seems

4563
02:37:18,720 --> 02:37:21,120
like the most noise ordinance exceptions

4564
02:37:21,120 --> 02:37:26,000
I get are related to onampus BYU events

4565
02:37:26,000 --> 02:37:31,600
and the sometimes they will go to 11:00

4566
02:37:31,600 --> 02:37:33,280
would be that's probably the latest one

4567
02:37:33,280 --> 02:37:36,319
I've ever seen you know but there there

4568
02:37:36,319 --> 02:37:37,840
is no rule of thumb because it really

4569
02:37:37,840 --> 02:37:41,439
comes in from each different

4570
02:37:41,439 --> 02:37:43,600
event you know a lot of them will happen

4571
02:37:43,600 --> 02:37:45,439
within our code compliant but they have

4572
02:37:45,439 --> 02:37:48,479
some type of amplification even during

4573
02:37:48,479 --> 02:37:50,880
U well you would say like the 5 to n

4574
02:37:50,880 --> 02:37:53,040
hours but they still need to get an

4575
02:37:53,040 --> 02:37:55,680
exemption for that amplica amplification

4576
02:37:55,680 --> 02:37:58,560
or the music that are part of it too.

4577
02:37:58,560 --> 02:38:00,560
Councelor Bogn before you go on one

4578
02:38:00,560 --> 02:38:02,399
clarification though the exemption

4579
02:38:02,399 --> 02:38:05,280
allowed in the code is to exceed the

4580
02:38:05,280 --> 02:38:08,880
sound limitation hours not to engage in

4581
02:38:08,880 --> 02:38:11,200
a use that's prohibited after a certain

4582
02:38:11,200 --> 02:38:11,680
time.

4583
02:38:11,680 --> 02:38:12,000
>> Okay.

4584
02:38:12,000 --> 02:38:14,319
>> So so that would not apply to extending

4585
02:38:14,319 --> 02:38:17,670
the events.

4586
02:38:17,680 --> 02:38:19,680
Wait.

4587
02:38:19,680 --> 02:38:22,720
>> So this this says flat out they can't

4588
02:38:22,720 --> 02:38:25,359
have events after these times. Not you

4589
02:38:25,359 --> 02:38:27,200
can't have loud events after these

4590
02:38:27,200 --> 02:38:29,600
times. If this said you can't have loud

4591
02:38:29,600 --> 02:38:31,840
events after these times that could be

4592
02:38:31,840 --> 02:38:34,080
granted an exception by the code but the

4593
02:38:34,080 --> 02:38:35,840
co the code provision that allows the

4594
02:38:35,840 --> 02:38:39,040
exceptions. It doesn't say

4595
02:38:39,040 --> 02:38:40,960
any I don't have let's say bounce house

4596
02:38:40,960 --> 02:38:43,680
parties were illegal after 10:00 in

4597
02:38:43,680 --> 02:38:45,920
different part of the code. The the code

4598
02:38:45,920 --> 02:38:47,120
provision we're talking about doesn't

4599
02:38:47,120 --> 02:38:48,640
say that the administration can let

4600
02:38:48,640 --> 02:38:50,960
bounce house parties go on later. It

4601
02:38:50,960 --> 02:38:53,120
says it can let the sound levels be

4602
02:38:53,120 --> 02:38:54,960
exceeded later, which is a different

4603
02:38:54,960 --> 02:38:55,359
question.

4604
02:38:55,359 --> 02:38:56,960
>> So, it's still the same thing. It's

4605
02:38:56,960 --> 02:38:59,280
still a sound exemption is what you're

4606
02:38:59,280 --> 02:39:00,960
saying.

4607
02:39:00,960 --> 02:39:04,160
The problem necessarily isn't the sound

4608
02:39:04,160 --> 02:39:07,840
as much as it is the vibration, right?

4609
02:39:07,840 --> 02:39:10,720
>> Yeah. The vibration of everything.

4610
02:39:10,720 --> 02:39:12,319
People can't necessarily hear it

4611
02:39:12,319 --> 02:39:14,319
auditorially, but they can feel it. It's

4612
02:39:14,319 --> 02:39:15,760
what they can feel. It's what their dogs

4613
02:39:15,760 --> 02:39:17,359
feel. It's what their babies feel. It's

4614
02:39:17,359 --> 02:39:20,880
when their their TV screens bouncing off

4615
02:39:20,880 --> 02:39:24,240
the wall and they're freaking out or the

4616
02:39:24,240 --> 02:39:26,080
it's pulsating their windows and they're

4617
02:39:26,080 --> 02:39:28,399
afraid it's going to break. Those those

4618
02:39:28,399 --> 02:39:30,160
are the problems that aren't necessarily

4619
02:39:30,160 --> 02:39:32,800
controlled by our sound ordinances.

4620
02:39:32,800 --> 02:39:35,600
So, to me, it's it's it's a whole gamut.

4621
02:39:35,600 --> 02:39:36,720
It's

4622
02:39:36,720 --> 02:39:38,479
>> the people that are living up the canyon

4623
02:39:38,479 --> 02:39:43,750
or up the canyon and the

4624
02:39:43,760 --> 02:39:45,920
It's the car that you fill next to your

4625
02:39:45,920 --> 02:39:46,960
Gemini.

4626
02:39:46,960 --> 02:39:48,640
>> Yeah.

4627
02:39:48,640 --> 02:39:52,080
>> So, it's DBC is the term that they use

4628
02:39:52,080 --> 02:39:54,560
to measure that. And so, that would be

4629
02:39:54,560 --> 02:39:56,000
one of the requirements that we would

4630
02:39:56,000 --> 02:39:59,040
talk about managing and mitigating in

4631
02:39:59,040 --> 02:40:00,880
those events. So, you have DBC is the

4632
02:40:00,880 --> 02:40:03,120
low base, the really loud vibrating

4633
02:40:03,120 --> 02:40:05,040
frequency. So, those would all be things

4634
02:40:05,040 --> 02:40:06,640
that we would need to propose and

4635
02:40:06,640 --> 02:40:08,560
provide, you know, accurate solution

4636
02:40:08,560 --> 02:40:12,319
score as we move forward. Yeah, but we are concerned about that. Becky, I I

4637
02:40:12,319 --> 02:40:14,000
guess one of the things that we do look

4638
02:40:14,000 --> 02:40:16,560
at at sound in terms of sound is the

4639
02:40:16,560 --> 02:40:18,399
closest resident is about 2/ird of a

4640
02:40:18,399 --> 02:40:20,479
mile from us and that's the folks that

4641
02:40:20,479 --> 02:40:22,880
just are right around the corner. Um

4642
02:40:22,880 --> 02:40:25,439
>> you can feel that from

4643
02:40:25,439 --> 02:40:25,760
>> Yeah,

4644
02:40:25,760 --> 02:40:28,240
>> you can feel it for more than twothirds

4645
02:40:28,240 --> 02:40:30,960
of a mile. That stuff travels. It's not

4646
02:40:30,960 --> 02:40:32,399
necessarily what they can hear, it's

4647
02:40:32,399 --> 02:40:33,600
what they feel,

4648
02:40:33,600 --> 02:40:36,080
>> right? Further than the sound. and

4649
02:40:36,080 --> 02:40:38,240
you've got Sierra Shell and you've got

4650
02:40:38,240 --> 02:40:39,760
um you've got Eustan, you've got a lot

4651
02:40:39,760 --> 02:40:41,920
of places that are that are close. So,

4652
02:40:41,920 --> 02:40:43,840
it's it's a matter of making sure we're

4653
02:40:43,840 --> 02:40:45,520
accurately addressing the sound

4654
02:40:45,520 --> 02:40:47,439
concerns. We have me the ability to

4655
02:40:47,439 --> 02:40:48,960
measure it all of those receptors,

4656
02:40:48,960 --> 02:40:50,880
especially in Orum. We know what that

4657
02:40:50,880 --> 02:40:52,560
sound is. We know what the decibb are so

4658
02:40:52,560 --> 02:40:53,840
that we're making sure we're making sure

4659
02:40:53,840 --> 02:40:55,520
we're in compliance and that we're

4660
02:40:55,520 --> 02:40:57,120
measuring all the different aspects of

4661
02:40:57,120 --> 02:40:59,840
the sound. The DBC, I think it's da is

4662
02:40:59,840 --> 02:41:02,479
the higher frequency sounds. Uh DBA.

4663
02:41:02,479 --> 02:41:06,319
Yeah. And then we've got um

4664
02:41:06,319 --> 02:41:08,160
uh I think those are the two main ones.

4665
02:41:08,160 --> 02:41:09,920
And then the and then the LQ is another

4666
02:41:09,920 --> 02:41:11,359
way that they kind of measure the impact

4667
02:41:11,359 --> 02:41:13,200
of sound on other folks. So those would

4668
02:41:13,200 --> 02:41:14,399
all be things that we would need to

4669
02:41:14,399 --> 02:41:15,760
address, you know, down the down the

4670
02:41:15,760 --> 02:41:17,280
road once we have the design complete.

4671
02:41:17,280 --> 02:41:18,960
>> And where you're on the border of Provo

4672
02:41:18,960 --> 02:41:21,439
and ORM, would you have to get the same

4673
02:41:21,439 --> 02:41:24,319
kind of variance from Orm City that you

4674
02:41:24,319 --> 02:41:26,080
do from Provo? Would you have to do both

4675
02:41:26,080 --> 02:41:28,399
of those extension permits?

4676
02:41:28,399 --> 02:41:31,040
>> Just Provo because you're in Provo. So

4677
02:41:31,040 --> 02:41:34,800
the sounds that go to orum

4678
02:41:34,800 --> 02:41:38,319
would just be okay because even though

4679
02:41:38,319 --> 02:41:40,319
it it doesn't meet their stuff because

4680
02:41:40,319 --> 02:41:41,840
you have an exclusion in provoke.

4681
02:41:41,840 --> 02:41:43,120
>> Yeah, we wouldn't be we wouldn't be

4682
02:41:43,120 --> 02:41:44,479
required to follow their standards, but

4683
02:41:44,479 --> 02:41:47,840
I would guess that we'll we'll Yeah.

4684
02:41:47,840 --> 02:41:51,439
Um, but I I think one of if if there

4685
02:41:51,439 --> 02:41:53,920
were stronger language to include in

4686
02:41:53,920 --> 02:41:56,160
here with regard to the process, you

4687
02:41:56,160 --> 02:41:58,000
know, like like Brian talked about, that

4688
02:41:58,000 --> 02:41:59,920
was something that we did kind of

4689
02:41:59,920 --> 02:42:02,720
explore. Um, and we're happy to do that

4690
02:42:02,720 --> 02:42:04,080
or it's like we're kind of kicking the

4691
02:42:04,080 --> 02:42:06,000
can down the road on the sand because we

4692
02:42:06,000 --> 02:42:07,120
don't have a limb or just because we

4693
02:42:07,120 --> 02:42:08,880
don't have the design. Um, so however

4694
02:42:08,880 --> 02:42:11,040
the council wants to kind of uh address

4695
02:42:11,040 --> 02:42:12,960
that, we're happy to try to accommodate

4696
02:42:12,960 --> 02:42:16,960
if it were more of a process driven um,

4697
02:42:16,960 --> 02:42:18,640
uh, requirement in the development

4698
02:42:18,640 --> 02:42:20,160
agreement or maybe both. Maybe it's

4699
02:42:20,160 --> 02:42:22,399
process driven about who we hire, how we

4700
02:42:22,399 --> 02:42:24,640
engage them, what the results would be,

4701
02:42:24,640 --> 02:42:25,840
how that information would be shared

4702
02:42:25,840 --> 02:42:27,920
with city, how we would be bound to

4703
02:42:27,920 --> 02:42:29,200
those things. We're going to do that

4704
02:42:29,200 --> 02:42:31,040
anyways. Um, we've got to make sure we

4705
02:42:31,040 --> 02:42:32,640
hit the requirements for performers as

4706
02:42:32,640 --> 02:42:33,840
they come and that we can meet their

4707
02:42:33,840 --> 02:42:35,520
requirements as well. So that's an

4708
02:42:35,520 --> 02:42:37,439
important incredibly important component

4709
02:42:37,439 --> 02:42:39,600
for the project. So if that was helpful

4710
02:42:39,600 --> 02:42:41,600
to put the process driven things in here

4711
02:42:41,600 --> 02:42:43,760
as well as we've got to come back about

4712
02:42:43,760 --> 02:42:45,040
the ordinance that would be yeah

4713
02:42:45,040 --> 02:42:48,240
whatever whatever works best for post

4714
02:42:48,240 --> 02:42:49,680
>> I like what you suggested.

4715
02:42:49,680 --> 02:42:50,399
>> Go ahead.

4716
02:42:50,399 --> 02:42:52,319
>> I like what suggested as far as a

4717
02:42:52,319 --> 02:42:53,920
process like it has to be a sound study

4718
02:42:53,920 --> 02:42:56,240
eventually and then how things can be

4719
02:42:56,240 --> 02:42:58,080
mitigated and we be able to know how it

4720
02:42:58,080 --> 02:43:00,399
hits our residents

4721
02:43:00,399 --> 02:43:02,080
and if there needs to be anything done

4722
02:43:02,080 --> 02:43:04,319
or not. Maybe there won't be,

4723
02:43:04,319 --> 02:43:06,319
>> but we need to know. We need to stop

4724
02:43:06,319 --> 02:43:08,960
now.

4725
02:43:08,960 --> 02:43:09,840
Christian,

4726
02:43:09,840 --> 02:43:14,080
>> um I I think the process is helpful. Uh

4727
02:43:14,080 --> 02:43:17,840
it's the results that matter. Um if you

4728
02:43:17,840 --> 02:43:21,600
live next to the stadium, it's loud. And

4729
02:43:21,600 --> 02:43:24,720
what is that? 9 12 times a year, 15, I

4730
02:43:24,720 --> 02:43:26,160
don't know. It's a handful. It's not

4731
02:43:26,160 --> 02:43:27,600
every week. It's not multiple times a

4732
02:43:27,600 --> 02:43:31,200
week. And so the significance of this in

4733
02:43:31,200 --> 02:43:32,960
terms of sound, I love the idea of

4734
02:43:32,960 --> 02:43:35,280
process, but in my mind there there's

4735
02:43:35,280 --> 02:43:37,680
got to be results in terms of measurable

4736
02:43:37,680 --> 02:43:39,920
things. So and let's find out from other

4737
02:43:39,920 --> 02:43:41,600
venues what's reasonable and let's then

4738
02:43:41,600 --> 02:43:44,160
articulate, okay, the decel, the DCA and

4739
02:43:44,160 --> 02:43:46,880
the DBAs, here's what they are, and

4740
02:43:46,880 --> 02:43:49,279
that's what this is going to be. But not

4741
02:43:49,279 --> 02:43:53,760
to have that um I I if I'm a citizen,

4742
02:43:53,760 --> 02:43:56,800
I'm thinking you dropped the ball. Uh,

4743
02:43:56,800 --> 02:43:58,640
the sound the sound is a big deal. The

4744
02:43:58,640 --> 02:43:59,760
light's a big deal. We've already talked

4745
02:43:59,760 --> 02:44:02,399
about the light, but um I I'm not

4746
02:44:02,399 --> 02:44:04,399
comfortable with just process. I'd be

4747
02:44:04,399 --> 02:44:06,640
more comfortable with some results in

4748
02:44:06,640 --> 02:44:08,479
terms of what are the what are the

4749
02:44:08,479 --> 02:44:09,279
parameters?

4750
02:44:09,279 --> 02:44:10,720
>> Well, they can't test what's not built.

4751
02:44:10,720 --> 02:44:12,800
So, can we put it in and then test it

4752
02:44:12,800 --> 02:44:17,680
and then do a decision? Well, we can do research on what do other

4753
02:44:17,680 --> 02:44:21,200
venues that are close to uh you know

4754
02:44:21,200 --> 02:44:23,359
homes that are in general

4755
02:44:23,359 --> 02:44:25,680
uh what what are they what are they

4756
02:44:25,680 --> 02:44:28,399
using and I would hope it's better than

4757
02:44:28,399 --> 02:44:31,920
just uh reasonable best commercially

4758
02:44:31,920 --> 02:44:34,399
reasonable here here's the concern uh we

4759
02:44:34,399 --> 02:44:37,040
want this to be successful so bump it

4760
02:44:37,040 --> 02:44:38,560
make make it happen make it work we've

4761
02:44:38,560 --> 02:44:40,240
got a lot invested as the city the

4762
02:44:40,240 --> 02:44:42,640
developers do and that does not lend it

4763
02:44:42,640 --> 02:44:46,160
to lend itself to being judicious about

4764
02:44:46,160 --> 02:44:48,319
are we overstepping

4765
02:44:48,319 --> 02:44:50,640
what's prudent for our citizens. That's

4766
02:44:50,640 --> 02:44:51,359
my concern.

4767
02:44:51,359 --> 02:44:55,429
>> Mhm.

4768
02:44:55,439 --> 02:44:56,240
» Oh, go ahead.

4769
02:44:56,240 --> 02:44:58,000
>> Uh, sorry. I want to go.

4770
02:44:58,000 --> 02:45:00,080
>> Well, I I just wanted to again this this

4771
02:45:00,080 --> 02:45:01,439
would be one where I think it'd be

4772
02:45:01,439 --> 02:45:06,720
really important for a motion. Uh, and I think the issue is

4773
02:45:06,720 --> 02:45:10,080
um in my mind the issue is are you okay

4774
02:45:10,080 --> 02:45:12,240
with kicking down the can down the road

4775
02:45:12,240 --> 02:45:14,080
knowing that there are already standards

4776
02:45:14,080 --> 02:45:16,880
in place or do the or the or does it

4777
02:45:16,880 --> 02:45:18,479
have to be answered now? I think that's

4778
02:45:18,479 --> 02:45:22,720
the the what I would want guidance on as

4779
02:45:22,720 --> 02:45:24,800
far as working with the developer on

4780
02:45:24,800 --> 02:45:26,880
>> those standards.

4781
02:45:26,880 --> 02:45:28,560
It's like

4782
02:45:28,560 --> 02:45:31,760
65 during the day or I mean it's really

4783
02:45:31,760 --> 02:45:35,200
low. That's why I say I think in my view

4784
02:45:35,200 --> 02:45:37,680
I think you probably

4785
02:45:37,680 --> 02:45:39,359
>> you probably can't meet the current

4786
02:45:39,359 --> 02:45:40,479
requirements. You're probably going to

4787
02:45:40,479 --> 02:45:42,800
have to come back to propose a text

4788
02:45:42,800 --> 02:45:44,720
amendment to the council in the future.

4789
02:45:44,720 --> 02:45:47,439
>> It's 70 for all other areas besides your

4790
02:45:47,439 --> 02:45:49,279
residential during daytime.

4791
02:45:49,279 --> 02:45:52,000
>> Okay. And lower during the evening. It's

4792
02:45:52,000 --> 02:45:53,279
correct 65.

4793
02:45:53,279 --> 02:45:55,840
>> It was after 10 o'

4794
02:45:55,840 --> 02:45:59,040
and specific for entertainment venues.

4795
02:45:59,040 --> 02:46:02,160
It even with exemptions, it can't go

4796
02:46:02,160 --> 02:46:03,680
above 105.

4797
02:46:03,680 --> 02:46:04,800
>> Yeah.

4798
02:46:04,800 --> 02:46:06,800
>> Brian, is this one of your gates? One of

4799
02:46:06,800 --> 02:46:08,000
your 10 gates.

4800
02:46:08,000 --> 02:46:10,160
>> No, this isn't this isn't a g I mean,

4801
02:46:10,160 --> 02:46:12,560
it's not a gate for the transfer of the

4802
02:46:12,560 --> 02:46:16,000
property. It's a gate for reme we didn't

4803
02:46:16,000 --> 02:46:17,359
even we haven't even gotten to this yet

4804
02:46:17,359 --> 02:46:18,880
but remember that we have talked about

4805
02:46:18,880 --> 02:46:20,319
previously that there are provisions

4806
02:46:20,319 --> 02:46:22,800
later that we will hopefully get to

4807
02:46:22,800 --> 02:46:24,640
about the fact that if they don't

4808
02:46:24,640 --> 02:46:26,880
commence or finish construction we can

4809
02:46:26,880 --> 02:46:29,200
unzone the property. So in my and again

4810
02:46:29,200 --> 02:46:30,880
all of this is a package deal. So in my

4811
02:46:30,880 --> 02:46:33,200
mind what this actually does this is

4812
02:46:33,200 --> 02:46:35,120
really and again I acknowledge this to

4813
02:46:35,120 --> 02:46:36,640
begin this is essentially a statement of

4814
02:46:36,640 --> 02:46:40,880
intent. Uh what but in practice the way

4815
02:46:40,880 --> 02:46:42,640
that this would work if you're not

4816
02:46:42,640 --> 02:46:44,880
satisfied with it is in well let me back

4817
02:46:44,880 --> 02:46:47,840
up. Logistically what I see happening is

4818
02:46:47,840 --> 02:46:49,600
they're going to go do their sound study

4819
02:46:49,600 --> 02:46:50,960
after they know that they've got the

4820
02:46:50,960 --> 02:46:53,600
reszone and and it's worth spending the

4821
02:46:53,600 --> 02:46:55,520
money to do the sound study. They're

4822
02:46:55,520 --> 02:46:56,960
going to come back with the sound study

4823
02:46:56,960 --> 02:46:58,800
and they're going to say we think that

4824
02:46:58,800 --> 02:47:02,319
it needs to be 110 and here's why and

4825
02:47:02,319 --> 02:47:04,000
here's what 110 looks like. And I'm

4826
02:47:04,000 --> 02:47:05,120
pulling a number out of the I should

4827
02:47:05,120 --> 02:47:06,800
have said 300 so that people know I'm

4828
02:47:06,800 --> 02:47:08,640
being ridiculous. But they come back and

4829
02:47:08,640 --> 02:47:10,800
they present to you a text amendment to

4830
02:47:10,800 --> 02:47:13,279
the code and you are convinced by it and

4831
02:47:13,279 --> 02:47:15,279
accept it and the project goes forward

4832
02:47:15,279 --> 02:47:17,279
or you are not convinced by it. You

4833
02:47:17,279 --> 02:47:19,279
don't pass it and they don't build

4834
02:47:19,279 --> 02:47:20,880
because they know they can't meet the

4835
02:47:20,880 --> 02:47:22,880
code and then you unzone the property

4836
02:47:22,880 --> 02:47:25,279
and take it back. But I think I think

4837
02:47:25,279 --> 02:47:27,520
the concern that uh councelor McKay is

4838
02:47:27,520 --> 02:47:30,160
saying is that even if even if that were

4839
02:47:30,160 --> 02:47:31,840
the case, the way the code is currently

4840
02:47:31,840 --> 02:47:33,520
written, you can just always make an

4841
02:47:33,520 --> 02:47:35,200
event per event.

4842
02:47:35,200 --> 02:47:35,840
>> Yeah.

4843
02:47:35,840 --> 02:47:37,279
>> And and that's what I and that's what I

4844
02:47:37,279 --> 02:47:39,279
said. I I threw this out a couple times

4845
02:47:39,279 --> 02:47:40,880
without giving a specific. I think what

4846
02:47:40,880 --> 02:47:43,200
we can add to this is say we're not

4847
02:47:43,200 --> 02:47:47,279
eligible for special event exemptions.

4848
02:47:47,279 --> 02:47:49,760
>> Right? If if that's your concern, we can

4849
02:47:49,760 --> 02:47:51,760
cite the code provision that that allows

4850
02:47:51,760 --> 02:47:53,680
those and say that doesn't apply.

4851
02:47:53,680 --> 02:47:54,800
>> So that has to come.

4852
02:47:54,800 --> 02:47:57,439
>> It's either it's either we have a one

4853
02:47:57,439 --> 02:47:59,760
side we have a final rule or we have

4854
02:47:59,760 --> 02:48:00,560
nothing.

4855
02:48:00,560 --> 02:48:01,840
>> I think that's way better.

4856
02:48:01,840 --> 02:48:04,000
>> Yeah.

4857
02:48:04,000 --> 02:48:05,279
>> You going to make that motion and I'll

4858
02:48:05,279 --> 02:48:06,479
second it?

4859
02:48:06,479 --> 02:48:08,160
>> I'll make a motion that we add that they

4860
02:48:08,160 --> 02:48:10,800
can't have the

4861
02:48:10,800 --> 02:48:12,560
administrative exemptions and that they

4862
02:48:12,560 --> 02:48:14,479
have to come back for a full exemption

4863
02:48:14,479 --> 02:48:17,279
that's spelled out and specific. I'll

4864
02:48:17,279 --> 02:48:19,520
second that.

4865
02:48:19,520 --> 02:48:21,920
>> Yeah. And or discussion.

4866
02:48:21,920 --> 02:48:23,920
>> So looking at the exemption part. So

4867
02:48:23,920 --> 02:48:27,670
that's 9.06.050.

4868
02:48:27,680 --> 02:48:30,960
Um I I think if we are going to say no

4869
02:48:30,960 --> 02:48:32,880
exemptions, it would be no exemptions

4870
02:48:32,880 --> 02:48:35,600
unless the council decides to alter this

4871
02:48:35,600 --> 02:48:37,040
code

4872
02:48:37,040 --> 02:48:37,439
>> because

4873
02:48:37,439 --> 02:48:40,160
>> Right. Well, and again, we're really not

4874
02:48:40,160 --> 02:48:41,920
talking about exemptions. We're talking

4875
02:48:41,920 --> 02:48:44,080
about administrative administrative

4876
02:48:44,080 --> 02:48:45,600
event exceptions. Right.

4877
02:48:45,600 --> 02:48:47,439
>> Yeah. because you made the point earlier

4878
02:48:47,439 --> 02:48:49,120
that we may not actually know what the

4879
02:48:49,120 --> 02:48:50,560
impact is until they've built a thing

4880
02:48:50,560 --> 02:48:51,359
there.

4881
02:48:51,359 --> 02:48:53,680
>> You know that the studies because you're

4882
02:48:53,680 --> 02:48:59,040
going to be changing the geometries and everything of it. So we can't know

4883
02:48:59,040 --> 02:49:01,680
for real what it is until it's

4884
02:49:01,680 --> 02:49:02,560
>> real.

4885
02:49:02,560 --> 02:49:03,840
>> Yeah. So I like the idea that they have

4886
02:49:03,840 --> 02:49:05,359
to come they have to do all the testing

4887
02:49:05,359 --> 02:49:06,800
but we have actual things to work with

4888
02:49:06,800 --> 02:49:08,160
and then know and then we make their own

4889
02:49:08,160 --> 02:49:08,720
exception.

4890
02:49:08,720 --> 02:49:10,240
>> Although what they can do, Rachel, is

4891
02:49:10,240 --> 02:49:12,720
they can build to specification.

4892
02:49:12,720 --> 02:49:15,120
So, let's say it's 300 or 3,000 to be

4893
02:49:15,120 --> 02:49:17,840
ridiculous. It can't be more than 3,000.

4894
02:49:17,840 --> 02:49:19,520
All right. Well, you have to build it to

4895
02:49:19,520 --> 02:49:21,120
3,000, right? Or three.

4896
02:49:21,120 --> 02:49:22,399
>> You're dealing with nature. I don't know

4897
02:49:22,399 --> 02:49:23,359
if you could.

4898
02:49:23,359 --> 02:49:24,880
>> And I was going to add to that. I was

4899
02:49:24,880 --> 02:49:27,120
just saying you you can put parameters

4900
02:49:27,120 --> 02:49:29,120
in and then you build it to parameters.

4901
02:49:29,120 --> 02:49:32,080
Um otherwise, it's

4902
02:49:32,080 --> 02:49:33,520
you'll know what's in the bill after you

4903
02:49:33,520 --> 02:49:36,880
read it, after we pass it, you know.

4904
02:49:36,880 --> 02:49:38,800
Yeah. Yeah, you know that that that you

4905
02:49:38,800 --> 02:49:40,560
know, well, let's just let's just wait

4906
02:49:40,560 --> 02:49:42,319
until we pass it and then get on the

4907
02:49:42,319 --> 02:49:44,399
other side. I'm suggesting we could

4908
02:49:44,399 --> 02:49:46,560
actually put in parameters and say it

4909
02:49:46,560 --> 02:49:47,680
has to be in these parameters. Now, I

4910
02:49:47,680 --> 02:49:50,080
suggest those parameters be based on

4911
02:49:50,080 --> 02:49:52,560
what other venues do, what there have to

4912
02:49:52,560 --> 02:49:53,840
be some guideline. I'm not looking to be

4913
02:49:53,840 --> 02:49:56,240
unreasonable. I'm just saying you could

4914
02:49:56,240 --> 02:49:58,080
build it to parameters.

4915
02:49:58,080 --> 02:49:59,520
>> It might be more expensive and

4916
02:49:59,520 --> 02:50:01,200
>> and I don't disagree with that. One of

4917
02:50:01,200 --> 02:50:03,040
the things I was going to suggest uh

4918
02:50:03,040 --> 02:50:04,800
when you when you started with that

4919
02:50:04,800 --> 02:50:06,880
comment was,

4920
02:50:06,880 --> 02:50:09,359
you know, I was said I I think it's

4921
02:50:09,359 --> 02:50:11,279
totally valid to suggest to the

4922
02:50:11,279 --> 02:50:12,880
developer who's going to be making these

4923
02:50:12,880 --> 02:50:14,160
drafts that they go out and look and

4924
02:50:14,160 --> 02:50:16,080
they come back and

4925
02:50:16,080 --> 02:50:18,720
maybe maybe you're not actually when you

4926
02:50:18,720 --> 02:50:20,160
get to the point where you're amending

4927
02:50:20,160 --> 02:50:21,920
the code, you won't be satisfied with

4928
02:50:21,920 --> 02:50:25,600
anything greater than 105, right? But

4929
02:50:25,600 --> 02:50:27,120
maybe they come back right now and say,

4930
02:50:27,120 --> 02:50:30,399
"We've looked around the country and 150

4931
02:50:30,399 --> 02:50:32,080
is the biggest that anybody else is

4932
02:50:32,080 --> 02:50:34,240
doing, so we're going to put 150 in it

4933
02:50:34,240 --> 02:50:37,279
anyway." Knowing that that's not an

4934
02:50:37,279 --> 02:50:40,319
authorization, it's a cap, right? So

4935
02:50:40,319 --> 02:50:42,319
there can be a ceiling in it even if

4936
02:50:42,319 --> 02:50:44,319
there's not an authorization to meet the

4937
02:50:44,319 --> 02:50:47,600
ceiling, but that would require it's up

4938
02:50:47,600 --> 02:50:49,200
to them whether that's really possible.

4939
02:50:49,200 --> 02:50:52,000
I I think one of the challenges in my

4940
02:50:52,000 --> 02:50:55,040
mind as I consider what councelor uh

4941
02:50:55,040 --> 02:50:58,560
Christensen is saying is so our ours our

4942
02:50:58,560 --> 02:51:00,080
sound ordinances are basically at

4943
02:51:00,080 --> 02:51:01,520
property line right

4944
02:51:01,520 --> 02:51:03,359
>> I think the really challenging unknown

4945
02:51:03,359 --> 02:51:06,720
is how the m mountain will carry the

4946
02:51:06,720 --> 02:51:09,359
sound over into the people who live on

4947
02:51:09,359 --> 02:51:10,800
the other side of that like my

4948
02:51:10,800 --> 02:51:12,560
understanding is yeah exactly and it's

4949
02:51:12,560 --> 02:51:13,840
like my understanding with how kind of

4950
02:51:13,840 --> 02:51:15,439
like rock mountains work is they tend to

4951
02:51:15,439 --> 02:51:16,720
vibrate and carry sound quite

4952
02:51:16,720 --> 02:51:18,399
efficiently and that's just the thing

4953
02:51:18,399 --> 02:51:20,160
like Unless we go drive up to the hill

4954
02:51:20,160 --> 02:51:22,080
and put out some massive speakers and

4955
02:51:22,080 --> 02:51:23,760
blast sound. Like we don't really know

4956
02:51:23,760 --> 02:51:25,520
what it'll actually feel like to the

4957
02:51:25,520 --> 02:51:26,960
people who live on the other side. Like

4958
02:51:26,960 --> 02:51:28,720
for example, I talked to a venue owner

4959
02:51:28,720 --> 02:51:30,720
and that was his big personal like if

4960
02:51:30,720 --> 02:51:32,240
I'm thinking about this like the sound

4961
02:51:32,240 --> 02:51:33,840
traveling up and over that mountain

4962
02:51:33,840 --> 02:51:36,000
seems very like efficient to me. And

4963
02:51:36,000 --> 02:51:37,520
again, I know there's like mitigation

4964
02:51:37,520 --> 02:51:39,760
effects, but it's just Yeah. Anyway,

4965
02:51:39,760 --> 02:51:41,279
it's like it's hard. I don't think our I

4966
02:51:41,279 --> 02:51:43,680
don't think our you know at sight or at

4967
02:51:43,680 --> 02:51:45,760
sideline decel reading is actually going

4968
02:51:45,760 --> 02:51:48,080
to in practical terms affect be the

4969
02:51:48,080 --> 02:51:50,960
experience of the people who live there.

4970
02:51:50,960 --> 02:51:52,399
>> You have to experience the different

4971
02:51:52,399 --> 02:51:54,319
neighborhoods and actually check out the

4972
02:51:54,319 --> 02:51:55,760
different neighborhoods as something's

4973
02:51:55,760 --> 02:51:58,880
going on with a test. And again, I think

4974
02:51:58,880 --> 02:52:02,000
that all of those things are things that

4975
02:52:02,000 --> 02:52:03,920
they could be required to answer to when

4976
02:52:03,920 --> 02:52:06,160
you're be when you're considering what

4977
02:52:06,160 --> 02:52:08,880
it really boils down to is I think what

4978
02:52:08,880 --> 02:52:10,560
we need what the developer needs to know

4979
02:52:10,560 --> 02:52:12,479
and what I need to know as far as ne

4980
02:52:12,479 --> 02:52:15,439
negotiating what you want is do do those

4981
02:52:15,439 --> 02:52:17,439
questions have to be answered now?

4982
02:52:17,439 --> 02:52:18,960
>> Yeah. And and that's why this is like

4983
02:52:18,960 --> 02:52:21,439
really challenging is because I their

4984
02:52:21,439 --> 02:52:22,880
position which I totally understand is

4985
02:52:22,880 --> 02:52:24,720
like they're taking on a ton of risk

4986
02:52:24,720 --> 02:52:25,920
even being in this room, you know,

4987
02:52:25,920 --> 02:52:27,120
spending all this time answering all of

4988
02:52:27,120 --> 02:52:28,240
our questions and then we could still

4989
02:52:28,240 --> 02:52:30,160
just say no. And so it's like the more

4990
02:52:30,160 --> 02:52:32,080
we ask them to do now, the more so it's

4991
02:52:32,080 --> 02:52:33,520
like there's a risk asymmetry here that

4992
02:52:33,520 --> 02:52:35,520
seems just really challenging. So

4993
02:52:35,520 --> 02:52:36,960
>> that's what I I don't know what a good

4994
02:52:36,960 --> 02:52:38,399
answer is to that, but that's the

4995
02:52:38,399 --> 02:52:39,439
challenge.

4996
02:52:39,439 --> 02:52:41,200
>> And I don't either. So I defer to you,

4997
02:52:41,200 --> 02:52:41,840
man.

4998
02:52:41,840 --> 02:52:43,760
>> I mean, unless we could go do a do a

4999
02:52:43,760 --> 02:52:45,120
field trip. I don't [laughter] know.

5000
02:52:45,120 --> 02:52:46,479
Well, it makes sense to me that you

5001
02:52:46,479 --> 02:52:48,000
can't know it until you have all the

5002
02:52:48,000 --> 02:52:49,120
infrastructure in place.

5003
02:52:49,120 --> 02:52:50,080
>> It's just really hard to know.

5004
02:52:50,080 --> 02:52:51,600
>> And you need to know where it is over

5005
02:52:51,600 --> 02:52:54,560
the mountain, down the mountain, in the

5006
02:52:54,560 --> 02:52:56,000
little neighborhood. Can't remember the

5007
02:52:56,000 --> 02:52:57,040
name of it.

5008
02:52:57,040 --> 02:52:57,680
>> Springell.

5009
02:52:57,680 --> 02:52:58,080
>> Yeah.

5010
02:52:58,080 --> 02:52:59,680
>> So, like they need to be testing those

5011
02:52:59,680 --> 02:53:03,120
three areas. So, but if if we have it

5012
02:53:03,120 --> 02:53:04,720
lined up like you mentioned that they

5013
02:53:04,720 --> 02:53:07,840
can't have a exemption and it would they

5014
02:53:07,840 --> 02:53:08,960
need to come in to get their own

5015
02:53:08,960 --> 02:53:11,680
exemption arranged with particulars then

5016
02:53:11,680 --> 02:53:14,000
that seems

5017
02:53:14,000 --> 02:53:17,200
like the best step. I don't know.

5018
02:53:17,200 --> 02:53:18,960
>> It just becomes hard because if it's

5019
02:53:18,960 --> 02:53:21,279
already built or whatever it's like, you

5020
02:53:21,279 --> 02:53:22,479
know, it's too big to fail at that

5021
02:53:22,479 --> 02:53:24,240
point. You're not as That's just the

5022
02:53:24,240 --> 02:53:27,120
challenge. Well, and I Yeah, I guess I

5023
02:53:27,120 --> 02:53:29,380
would say if I was the developer,

5024
02:53:29,380 --> 02:53:30,640
[laughter]

5025
02:53:30,640 --> 02:53:33,040
and I'm not, but if I was the developer,

5026
02:53:33,040 --> 02:53:34,640
because of the risk that you just

5027
02:53:34,640 --> 02:53:37,520
identified before I started building, I

5028
02:53:37,520 --> 02:53:39,680
would go do those, but not before two

5029
02:53:39,680 --> 02:53:42,000
weeks from now, I would go do all of

5030
02:53:42,000 --> 02:53:44,000
those studies, I would apply for my

5031
02:53:44,000 --> 02:53:46,399
exemption. I would show you the studies.

5032
02:53:46,399 --> 02:53:50,240
I I would have the number in the code

5033
02:53:50,240 --> 02:53:52,160
before I started building, even if I

5034
02:53:52,160 --> 02:53:54,800
don't have it two weeks from now. Mhm.

5035
02:53:54,800 --> 02:53:56,080
>> Can I Can I check?

5036
02:53:56,080 --> 02:53:56,399
>> Yeah.

5037
02:53:56,399 --> 02:53:58,880
you're exactly right, Council

5038
02:53:58,880 --> 02:54:00,880
Member Whitlock. We would be about eight

5039
02:54:00,880 --> 02:54:02,800
months, I would guess, six to eight

5040
02:54:02,800 --> 02:54:04,640
months away from being able to come and

5041
02:54:04,640 --> 02:54:07,200
make a really compelling uh um

5042
02:54:07,200 --> 02:54:08,880
explanation of what we're asking for and

5043
02:54:08,880 --> 02:54:11,520
why. Um the first step, the first that

5044
02:54:11,520 --> 02:54:13,120
the day after we're done here, we're

5045
02:54:13,120 --> 02:54:14,560
going to go get the geotechnical study

5046
02:54:14,560 --> 02:54:16,640
done. Um and then we would complete, you

5047
02:54:16,640 --> 02:54:17,760
know, kind of the preliminary and

5048
02:54:17,760 --> 02:54:19,600
concept design. So those would be the

5049
02:54:19,600 --> 02:54:20,880
very first steps that we would do that

5050
02:54:20,880 --> 02:54:23,359
we couldn't do anything um acoustically

5051
02:54:23,359 --> 02:54:25,520
until we have that design complete. Um

5052
02:54:25,520 --> 02:54:26,880
and then we would figure out ways to try

5053
02:54:26,880 --> 02:54:28,399
to mitigate those selling impacts and

5054
02:54:28,399 --> 02:54:30,319
then come to you and say this is what we

5055
02:54:30,319 --> 02:54:33,200
were proposing. But um that that risk

5056
02:54:33,200 --> 02:54:34,560
asymmetry I would love to understand

5057
02:54:34,560 --> 02:54:35,920
what you mean by that because I feel

5058
02:54:35,920 --> 02:54:39,279
like maybe we both feel like we're the

5059
02:54:39,279 --> 02:54:40,640
one leading the risk. I know Craig has

5060
02:54:40,640 --> 02:54:43,120
said that a lot. I I feel like you guys

5061
02:54:43,120 --> 02:54:45,120
hold all the cards in that you have a

5062
02:54:45,120 --> 02:54:46,960
standard right now. We don't we won't

5063
02:54:46,960 --> 02:54:49,120
meet the standard. either we will, in

5064
02:54:49,120 --> 02:54:50,800
which case we're good to go, or we

5065
02:54:50,800 --> 02:54:52,080
won't, which I'm telling you right now,

5066
02:54:52,080 --> 02:54:53,760
we won't. So then we would have to come

5067
02:54:53,760 --> 02:54:55,200
back and say, here's here's what this

5068
02:54:55,200 --> 02:54:56,960
would look like, and here's is this a

5069
02:54:56,960 --> 02:54:58,560
reasonable approach. It's not what this

5070
02:54:58,560 --> 02:54:59,920
would look like. It's does this mean

5071
02:54:59,920 --> 02:55:01,920
would this be acceptable to you as as

5072
02:55:01,920 --> 02:55:03,920
city council? So from my perspective, it

5073
02:55:03,920 --> 02:55:06,720
is risk asymmetry. It's all on us, but

5074
02:55:06,720 --> 02:55:08,720
um maybe maybe I'm not seeing some

5075
02:55:08,720 --> 02:55:09,920
>> Yeah, that that's what that's what I'm

5076
02:55:09,920 --> 02:55:11,040
potentially saying. Like we're asking

5077
02:55:11,040 --> 02:55:12,640
for answers now that require a level

5078
02:55:12,640 --> 02:55:14,240
investment that are not reasonable for

5079
02:55:14,240 --> 02:55:15,200
us to ask for.

5080
02:55:15,200 --> 02:55:18,000
>> Yes. given the risk that you are facing

5081
02:55:18,000 --> 02:55:19,600
for us to say no.

5082
02:55:19,600 --> 02:55:21,680
>> We're thinking the exact same way. We

5083
02:55:21,680 --> 02:55:23,439
would be we would be a significant

5084
02:55:23,439 --> 02:55:24,960
investment to go figure out the answers

5085
02:55:24,960 --> 02:55:28,479
to these questions that we can't make

5086
02:55:28,479 --> 02:55:29,920
uh it's very difficult for us to make

5087
02:55:29,920 --> 02:55:31,359
prior to getting some direction on the

5088
02:55:31,359 --> 02:55:33,439
phone. So

5089
02:55:33,439 --> 02:55:35,120
>> yeah, and I think it's important to note

5090
02:55:35,120 --> 02:55:37,439
that when you're doing enclosed

5091
02:55:37,439 --> 02:55:39,760
concerts, we probably aren't having a

5092
02:55:39,760 --> 02:55:41,920
sound problem at all. It's only when we

5093
02:55:41,920 --> 02:55:44,160
have the really big ones during the

5094
02:55:44,160 --> 02:55:46,240
summer months that are the open air

5095
02:55:46,240 --> 02:55:48,960
types of things. So, the number of

5096
02:55:48,960 --> 02:55:51,359
events that could potentially have an

5097
02:55:51,359 --> 02:55:55,120
adverse sound impact would be fewer than

5098
02:55:55,120 --> 02:55:56,800
the number of football games we've got a

5099
02:55:56,800 --> 02:55:57,439
year.

5100
02:55:57,439 --> 02:55:59,600
>> So, Rachel, it's a great point and that

5101
02:55:59,600 --> 02:56:02,479
I I think that goes to the design. That

5102
02:56:02,479 --> 02:56:04,160
goes to the design and needing to talk

5103
02:56:04,160 --> 02:56:05,920
about the design because, you know, we

5104
02:56:05,920 --> 02:56:08,000
have this retractable roof concept,

5105
02:56:08,000 --> 02:56:10,080
right? And so if if it's enclosed, sound

5106
02:56:10,080 --> 02:56:12,240
is not an issue, right? It's enclosed.

5107
02:56:12,240 --> 02:56:14,319
And if we do if we if we're in a

5108
02:56:14,319 --> 02:56:15,760
situation where we're where it's

5109
02:56:15,760 --> 02:56:17,920
outdoor, we could leave up portions of

5110
02:56:17,920 --> 02:56:20,800
the retractable um walls in order to

5111
02:56:20,800 --> 02:56:22,800
kind of really direct the sound. So

5112
02:56:22,800 --> 02:56:24,640
there's a lot of uh components here that

5113
02:56:24,640 --> 02:56:26,560
we have control over on the design, the

5114
02:56:26,560 --> 02:56:27,920
way that the structure is built, and the

5115
02:56:27,920 --> 02:56:29,600
way that we kind of direct the sound

5116
02:56:29,600 --> 02:56:30,960
that it's going to have a massive impact

5117
02:56:30,960 --> 02:56:32,720
on all these things. And that's what

5118
02:56:32,720 --> 02:56:34,160
we've got to go figure out on our side.

5119
02:56:34,160 --> 02:56:35,520
But we can't do that until we talk about

5120
02:56:35,520 --> 02:56:36,080
the design.

5121
02:56:36,080 --> 02:56:37,520
>> Yeah. Because ideally what we would want

5122
02:56:37,520 --> 02:56:40,080
is you us to or to have you figure out

5123
02:56:40,080 --> 02:56:42,560
how to address all of those impacts so

5124
02:56:42,560 --> 02:56:44,560
you never would need an exemption.

5125
02:56:44,560 --> 02:56:45,680
>> Yes. Yeah.

5126
02:56:45,680 --> 02:56:48,950
>> Yeah.

5127
02:56:48,960 --> 02:56:51,040
» All right. So, let me try to let me try

5128
02:56:51,040 --> 02:56:52,720
to help us move on. What I'm what I'm

5129
02:56:52,720 --> 02:56:54,000
hearing I would even make you make a

5130
02:56:54,000 --> 02:56:56,640
motion. I I I would say if you disagree

5131
02:56:56,640 --> 02:56:59,200
>> there's a motion and second. Yeah.

5132
02:56:59,200 --> 02:57:01,279
>> Oh, yeah. What was and it was just about

5133
02:57:01,279 --> 02:57:03,520
the Oh, it was it was getting rid of the

5134
02:57:03,520 --> 02:57:05,040
administrative exemptions.

5135
02:57:05,040 --> 02:57:07,120
>> Yes. And we have to come back and we'll

5136
02:57:07,120 --> 02:57:09,760
work out studies and all the details and

5137
02:57:09,760 --> 02:57:12,399
test in different neighborhoods.

5138
02:57:12,399 --> 02:57:12,880
>> Great.

5139
02:57:12,880 --> 02:57:15,040
>> Come up with a personalized exemption

5140
02:57:15,040 --> 02:57:16,640
that we can all agree on.

5141
02:57:16,640 --> 02:57:18,640
>> Okay.

5142
02:57:18,640 --> 02:57:21,680
>> Does that fit your concern that they are

5143
02:57:21,680 --> 02:57:24,160
still going to have to build it sound?

5144
02:57:24,160 --> 02:57:25,920
>> I think it's just close to

5145
02:57:25,920 --> 02:57:26,800
>> Okay.

5146
02:57:26,800 --> 02:57:28,880
>> Council Whitlock.

5147
02:57:28,880 --> 02:57:29,680
>> Yes.

5148
02:57:29,680 --> 02:57:31,359
>> Council McKay. Yes. Councelor

5149
02:57:31,359 --> 02:57:32,080
Christensen.

5150
02:57:32,080 --> 02:57:32,399
>> Yes.

5151
02:57:32,399 --> 02:57:33,359
>> Council Garrett.

5152
02:57:33,359 --> 02:57:35,120
>> Yes. Councelor Hman.

5153
02:57:35,120 --> 02:57:36,000
>> Yes.

5154
02:57:36,000 --> 02:57:37,120
>> Council Whipple.

5155
02:57:37,120 --> 02:57:37,520
>> Yep.

5156
02:57:37,520 --> 02:57:38,640
>> Council Bogdan.

5157
02:57:38,640 --> 02:57:39,200
>> Yes.

5158
02:57:39,200 --> 02:57:41,200
>> That's 7.

5159
02:57:41,200 --> 02:57:42,960
>> I like to make another motion to move

5160
02:57:42,960 --> 02:57:45,680
the Sunday through Thursday to 10:00 and

5161
02:57:45,680 --> 02:57:49,359
the Friday and Saturday to 11.

5162
02:57:49,359 --> 02:57:52,880
>> I'll second that as well.

5163
02:57:52,880 --> 02:57:54,080
>> Any discussion on that?

5164
02:57:54,080 --> 02:57:55,840
>> I'm conflicted because my bedtime's like

5165
02:57:55,840 --> 02:57:58,160
9:00. So that would make it easier for

5166
02:57:58,160 --> 02:58:00,800
me to attend an event. That's like the

5167
02:58:00,800 --> 02:58:01,920
hardest thing. That's why I hate going

5168
02:58:01,920 --> 02:58:03,760
to Salt Lake for concerts or anything

5169
02:58:03,760 --> 02:58:05,359
because they get done too late and I'm a

5170
02:58:05,359 --> 02:58:07,760
very tired old person.

5171
02:58:07,760 --> 02:58:09,040
>> It's just Yeah.

5172
02:58:09,040 --> 02:58:10,720
>> Can I ask a question?

5173
02:58:10,720 --> 02:58:13,040
>> I'm just curious how like just speak to

5174
02:58:13,040 --> 02:58:14,479
how important this is for the commercial

5175
02:58:14,479 --> 02:58:16,319
viability of the project.

5176
02:58:16,319 --> 02:58:19,200
>> I I we feel like it's really important.

5177
02:58:19,200 --> 02:58:22,560
So I I guess and I don't mean to be

5178
02:58:22,560 --> 02:58:24,160
disrespectful in any way to what the

5179
02:58:24,160 --> 02:58:26,240
council is asking. The agreement that we

5180
02:58:26,240 --> 02:58:27,840
would propose back for approval will say

5181
02:58:27,840 --> 02:58:29,840
11 and 12. That's how important it is to

5182
02:58:29,840 --> 02:58:31,279
us. you're just saying it's not going to

5183
02:58:31,279 --> 02:58:31,600
work.

5184
02:58:31,600 --> 02:58:32,720
>> Not that we're dismissing. Yeah.

5185
02:58:32,720 --> 02:58:34,720
Dismissive of the concern, but it I mean

5186
02:58:34,720 --> 02:58:36,640
there there's clear examples here that

5187
02:58:36,640 --> 02:58:40,240
we that we've talked about where this is an acceptable standard and

5188
02:58:40,240 --> 02:58:42,319
that's a very important component to us.

5189
02:58:42,319 --> 02:58:44,800
So yeah, I I think again it no

5190
02:58:44,800 --> 02:58:53,520
disrespect men attended but this is this is 11. Would you do 11

5191
02:58:53,520 --> 02:58:57,279
six days a week? Um, it's currently said

5192
02:58:57,279 --> 02:58:59,600
it's 11 five days a week,

5193
02:58:59,600 --> 02:59:01,439
>> right?

5194
02:59:01,439 --> 02:59:03,359
So, well, seven days a week. Would you

5195
02:59:03,359 --> 02:59:05,439
do 11 seven days a week? In other words,

5196
02:59:05,439 --> 02:59:07,760
not midnight.

5197
02:59:07,760 --> 02:59:10,160
>> Okay. Um, I think if there were some

5198
02:59:10,160 --> 02:59:12,560
kind of process to talk about these

5199
02:59:12,560 --> 02:59:15,040
administrative exemptions where we we

5200
02:59:15,040 --> 02:59:16,720
could for the handful of time come in

5201
02:59:16,720 --> 02:59:19,040
and ask for that to go to 12 or maybe

5202
02:59:19,040 --> 02:59:21,359
even later in some instances like a New

5203
02:59:21,359 --> 02:59:22,880
Year's Eve party or something like that.

5204
02:59:22,880 --> 02:59:24,399
there's there's a certain, you know,

5205
02:59:24,399 --> 02:59:26,160
handful of of times where it may make

5206
02:59:26,160 --> 02:59:27,920
some sense, but yeah, if there was a if

5207
02:59:27,920 --> 02:59:29,359
there was a vehicle for us to have that

5208
02:59:29,359 --> 02:59:30,479
conversation and come and talk to the

5209
02:59:30,479 --> 02:59:32,640
city about it, that might be a

5210
02:59:32,640 --> 02:59:34,160
reasonable approach 11:00 with the

5211
02:59:34,160 --> 02:59:34,720
exception.

5212
02:59:34,720 --> 02:59:37,279
>> But one question I have for uh Brian

5213
02:59:37,279 --> 02:59:39,439
here is this is only for outdoor events,

5214
02:59:39,439 --> 02:59:41,840
correct? There is no curfew for indoor

5215
02:59:41,840 --> 02:59:42,240
events,

5216
02:59:42,240 --> 02:59:42,800
>> correct?

5217
02:59:42,800 --> 02:59:44,160
>> Yeah.

5218
02:59:44,160 --> 02:59:46,560
>> Yep.

5219
02:59:46,560 --> 02:59:47,920
>> Maybe the stadium of fire would be a

5220
02:59:47,920 --> 02:59:49,359
better example to your point. That would

5221
02:59:49,359 --> 02:59:52,479
be indoor. I was thinking like I'm not

5222
02:59:52,479 --> 02:59:53,600
sure people are gonna want to be hanging

5223
02:59:53,600 --> 02:59:55,520
out [laughter] on door.

5224
02:59:55,520 --> 02:59:58,160
>> New York City does it, right? For the

5225
02:59:58,160 --> 02:59:59,200
>> It's true.

5226
02:59:59,200 --> 03:00:01,120
>> True. People just get bundled up like

5227
03:00:01,120 --> 03:00:07,349
penguins.

5228
03:00:07,359 --> 03:00:10,399
» We got a motion with a second.

5229
03:00:10,399 --> 03:00:12,640
>> And the motion on the skateboard is the

5230
03:00:12,640 --> 03:00:15,840
power shifted, not the not the potential

5231
03:00:15,840 --> 03:00:19,510
alternatives.

5232
03:00:19,520 --> 03:00:22,960
I would make a substitute motion that we

5233
03:00:22,960 --> 03:00:35,670
cons

5234
03:00:35,680 --> 03:00:37,600
» Gary, can you put in there that how many

5235
03:00:37,600 --> 03:00:39,600
exemptions that they can have to that?

5236
03:00:39,600 --> 03:00:44,870
Maybe five. You said a handful

5237
03:00:44,880 --> 03:00:49,439
» with the opportunity to apply for up to

5238
03:00:49,439 --> 03:00:53,830
five exemptions per year

5239
03:00:53,840 --> 03:00:56,880
» with a I assume a a 12 a.m. cap on the

5240
03:00:56,880 --> 03:00:58,640
exemptions. Like the exemptions aren't

5241
03:00:58,640 --> 03:01:01,120
unlimited, right?

5242
03:01:01,120 --> 03:01:04,560
>> Okay. I second that.

5243
03:01:04,560 --> 03:01:07,359
>> Did

5244
03:01:07,359 --> 03:01:08,960
you did then made a change? Are you okay

5245
03:01:08,960 --> 03:01:12,560
with the change? Okay.

5246
03:01:12,560 --> 03:01:15,680
on discussing the motion. I'm just again

5247
03:01:15,680 --> 03:01:18,720
just curious if that seems

5248
03:01:18,720 --> 03:01:20,000
>> because again like I think the trade-off

5249
03:01:20,000 --> 03:01:23,680
here from our I won't speak for me is

5250
03:01:23,680 --> 03:01:25,840
a massive risk of this whole project is

5251
03:01:25,840 --> 03:01:27,439
you know commercially viable or not and

5252
03:01:27,439 --> 03:01:28,800
then it's like you know obviously and

5253
03:01:28,800 --> 03:01:30,080
then obviously on the other side our

5254
03:01:30,080 --> 03:01:31,840
residents

5255
03:01:31,840 --> 03:01:33,760
quality of life sleep etc. And so

5256
03:01:33,760 --> 03:01:35,520
>> I've been to hundreds if not thousands

5257
03:01:35,520 --> 03:01:37,359
of concerts and I've never had one past

5258
03:01:37,359 --> 03:01:38,000
11.

5259
03:01:38,000 --> 03:01:39,040
>> Yeah.

5260
03:01:39,040 --> 03:01:41,600
>> Ever. Like what are the concerts all

5261
03:01:41,600 --> 03:01:48,309
going past 11 at midnight and stuff?

5262
03:01:48,319 --> 03:01:56,389
Yeah, but still

5263
03:01:56,399 --> 03:01:59,990
» football.

5264
03:02:00,000 --> 03:02:01,760
Yeah, I love [laughter]

5265
03:02:01,760 --> 03:02:04,960
>> I think the stadium of fire was past 11.

5266
03:02:04,960 --> 03:02:16,790
I was like this is going forever.

5267
03:02:16,800 --> 03:02:18,880
Yeah. Um, councelor McKay, yes.

5268
03:02:18,880 --> 03:02:19,760
Councelor Christensen,

5269
03:02:19,760 --> 03:02:20,319
>> yes.

5270
03:02:20,319 --> 03:02:21,279
>> Councelor Gat,

5271
03:02:21,279 --> 03:02:21,840
>> yes.

5272
03:02:21,840 --> 03:02:24,720
>> Council Whipple,

5273
03:02:24,720 --> 03:02:25,680
>> no.

5274
03:02:25,680 --> 03:02:26,960
>> Councelor Bod,

5275
03:02:26,960 --> 03:02:28,080
>> yes.

5276
03:02:28,080 --> 03:02:31,040
>> Councelor Whitlock,

5277
03:02:31,040 --> 03:02:32,560
>> um,

5278
03:02:32,560 --> 03:02:35,830
yes.

5279
03:02:35,840 --> 03:02:40,309
» Let the record report that was a yes.

5280
03:02:40,319 --> 03:02:41,760
Are you still with us?

5281
03:02:41,760 --> 03:02:43,439
>> Yes.

5282
03:02:43,439 --> 03:02:44,560
>> All right. So that

5283
03:02:44,560 --> 03:02:48,550
>> he's still with us.

5284
03:02:48,560 --> 03:03:01,590
» Yes.

5285
03:03:01,600 --> 03:03:04,000
Okay.

5286
03:03:04,000 --> 03:03:06,399
>> All right.

5287
03:03:06,399 --> 03:03:09,840
Hey, traffic. Oh,

5288
03:03:09,840 --> 03:03:12,560
>> Kevin's in a hurry. I'm [laughter]

5289
03:03:12,560 --> 03:03:15,439
>> uh Okay. Uh before commencement of their

5290
03:03:15,439 --> 03:03:16,960
operations, they have to submit and

5291
03:03:16,960 --> 03:03:18,880
obtain city and agency approvals for

5292
03:03:18,880 --> 03:03:21,439
traffic and parking operations. List of

5293
03:03:21,439 --> 03:03:24,080
all the things that has to address.

5294
03:03:24,080 --> 03:03:26,720
um

5295
03:03:26,720 --> 03:03:28,720
they can have different plans according

5296
03:03:28,720 --> 03:03:31,840
to the different levels and UD do

5297
03:03:31,840 --> 03:03:33,279
approval is required for anything that

5298
03:03:33,279 --> 03:03:35,120
UD do approval is required for.

5299
03:03:35,120 --> 03:03:37,520
>> Okay, I had some questions about this.

5300
03:03:37,520 --> 03:03:39,359
So I read through some other development

5301
03:03:39,359 --> 03:03:41,840
agreements of other cities that did big

5302
03:03:41,840 --> 03:03:43,359
amphitheaters

5303
03:03:43,359 --> 03:03:48,550
and a number of them included um

5304
03:03:48,560 --> 03:03:52,399
actual specifics on road like for

5305
03:03:52,399 --> 03:03:54,160
example the overpass and exactly how

5306
03:03:54,160 --> 03:03:57,520
much going to cost and what I'm worried

5307
03:03:57,520 --> 03:03:59,760
there's no cost on any of these things

5308
03:03:59,760 --> 03:04:03,359
but I worry about knowing that having

5309
03:04:03,359 --> 03:04:05,680
full transparency that they can do this

5310
03:04:05,680 --> 03:04:07,680
they're willing to do this Like just on

5311
03:04:07,680 --> 03:04:08,640
some of the basics,

5312
03:04:08,640 --> 03:04:11,040
>> you're you're talking about whether it's

5313
03:04:11,040 --> 03:04:12,640
viable to actually build it or not.

5314
03:04:12,640 --> 03:04:13,359
>> Yeah. Right.

5315
03:04:13,359 --> 03:04:17,439
>> Like um so the ones I was looking at had

5316
03:04:17,439 --> 03:04:20,000
two or three spelled out and they had to

5317
03:04:20,000 --> 03:04:21,600
be what did it say about it? So they

5318
03:04:21,600 --> 03:04:23,120
these infrastructure improvements are

5319
03:04:23,120 --> 03:04:25,279
required before the developer start on

5320
03:04:25,279 --> 03:04:27,120
the project. They actually in the

5321
03:04:27,120 --> 03:04:28,960
development agreement made it that they

5322
03:04:28,960 --> 03:04:30,800
had to do

5323
03:04:30,800 --> 03:04:33,279
the the I guess the pivotal

5324
03:04:33,279 --> 03:04:35,359
infrastructure improvements before the

5325
03:04:35,359 --> 03:04:36,640
developers start construction on the

5326
03:04:36,640 --> 03:04:39,760
amphitheater and um so I was wondering

5327
03:04:39,760 --> 03:04:42,319
about that like the overpass for example

5328
03:04:42,319 --> 03:04:44,640
for the bikes and pedestrians and cars

5329
03:04:44,640 --> 03:04:46,880
with fronted roads that are so those

5330
03:04:46,880 --> 03:04:49,359
would be absolutely necessary fronted

5331
03:04:49,359 --> 03:04:52,640
roads within each way this way

5332
03:04:52,640 --> 03:04:55,120
>> the one along parallel 489 closest to

5333
03:04:55,120 --> 03:04:56,560
189 That's two lanes and then once you

5334
03:04:56,560 --> 03:04:58,000
get up in the cement it's like four

5335
03:04:58,000 --> 03:04:58,720
lanes.

5336
03:04:58,720 --> 03:05:01,120
>> Yeah. I mean that's been huge. And then

5337
03:05:01,120 --> 03:05:03,439
I and I and I still think we need the

5338
03:05:03,439 --> 03:05:05,040
800

5339
03:05:05,040 --> 03:05:08,000
non-stop in order. So like those are

5340
03:05:08,000 --> 03:05:10,240
three pivotal

5341
03:05:10,240 --> 03:05:12,640
infrastructure things

5342
03:05:12,640 --> 03:05:16,399
>> that I think

5343
03:05:16,399 --> 03:05:18,640
I thought was interesting because I read

5344
03:05:18,640 --> 03:05:20,640
that they had the the pivotal

5345
03:05:20,640 --> 03:05:22,800
infrastructure pieces for traffic

5346
03:05:22,800 --> 03:05:26,479
required with prices and you know

5347
03:05:26,479 --> 03:05:29,359
>> yeah I I I think I would have to let the

5348
03:05:29,359 --> 03:05:31,600
developer uh answer that. I guess the

5349
03:05:31,600 --> 03:05:33,840
one thing that occurs to me with regard

5350
03:05:33,840 --> 03:05:36,080
to that is you'll remember that one of

5351
03:05:36,080 --> 03:05:39,439
the gates in the in the real estate

5352
03:05:39,439 --> 03:05:43,840
purchase contract is approval of their

5353
03:05:43,840 --> 03:05:46,240
traffic plan. Now that's approval of the

5354
03:05:46,240 --> 03:05:49,120
plan not not concerned from from UD do

5355
03:05:49,120 --> 03:05:51,840
what meaning though what I mean is that

5356
03:05:51,840 --> 03:05:54,479
we won't be transferring the property to

5357
03:05:54,479 --> 03:05:58,080
them until UD do has approved their uh

5358
03:05:58,080 --> 03:05:59,920
traffic infrastructure plan. Not saying

5359
03:05:59,920 --> 03:06:01,040
that's enough. I'm just saying that's

5360
03:06:01,040 --> 03:06:03,680
out there.

5361
03:06:03,680 --> 03:06:05,760
>> Do they represent things? Do they like I

5362
03:06:05,760 --> 03:06:08,319
don't know what I don't know what degree

5363
03:06:08,319 --> 03:06:10,240
of scrutiny they give.

5364
03:06:10,240 --> 03:06:10,960
>> Mhm.

5365
03:06:10,960 --> 03:06:13,279
>> And I'd love

5366
03:06:13,279 --> 03:06:16,399
I just address the construction. So I

5367
03:06:16,399 --> 03:06:17,279
think

5368
03:06:17,279 --> 03:06:19,359
>> we let developers start moving forward

5369
03:06:19,359 --> 03:06:20,560
and they have to build all the

5370
03:06:20,560 --> 03:06:23,200
infrastructure for the debt liability.

5371
03:06:23,200 --> 03:06:23,840
>> We do.

5372
03:06:23,840 --> 03:06:26,399
>> So up to a certain level phase one has

5373
03:06:26,399 --> 03:06:28,880
to be in. We will exempt sometimes a

5374
03:06:28,880 --> 03:06:30,960
sidewalk may not be in or a few signs,

5375
03:06:30,960 --> 03:06:33,200
but generally they have to have that

5376
03:06:33,200 --> 03:06:35,760
infrastructure for a project like this.

5377
03:06:35,760 --> 03:06:38,240
What I would see happen is that they'd

5378
03:06:38,240 --> 03:06:42,000
be going concurrently because the design

5379
03:06:42,000 --> 03:06:43,920
once they get approval from UDOP to do

5380
03:06:43,920 --> 03:06:45,840
this interchange and do the

5381
03:06:45,840 --> 03:06:47,600
environmental and all the design like

5382
03:06:47,600 --> 03:06:50,240
it's going to take six, eight, nine

5383
03:06:50,240 --> 03:06:52,080
months and then it's going to take

5384
03:06:52,080 --> 03:06:56,240
another year to build it. Um and so that

5385
03:06:56,240 --> 03:06:57,600
same period of time is going to take

5386
03:06:57,600 --> 03:06:59,680
them I'm going to estimate a year to

5387
03:06:59,680 --> 03:07:03,920
design uh the amplicator. So I I see

5388
03:07:03,920 --> 03:07:06,319
both of these kind of incurrent. So you

5389
03:07:06,319 --> 03:07:08,880
don't give somebody occupancy of their

5390
03:07:08,880 --> 03:07:10,640
facility to all their off-site

5391
03:07:10,640 --> 03:07:12,240
infrastructure completely.

5392
03:07:12,240 --> 03:07:13,760
>> So they have to do all the boat stuff

5393
03:07:13,760 --> 03:07:15,359
first.

5394
03:07:15,359 --> 03:07:16,880
>> I would see them under construction

5395
03:07:16,880 --> 03:07:18,000
simultaneously.

5396
03:07:18,000 --> 03:07:19,359
>> But before they occupy

5397
03:07:19,359 --> 03:07:21,279
>> Yeah. So before they have occupy the

5398
03:07:21,279 --> 03:07:22,960
water line has to be built, storm

5399
03:07:22,960 --> 03:07:24,960
drains, the sewer, the road, all those

5400
03:07:24,960 --> 03:07:26,800
things would have to be done. And you

5401
03:07:26,800 --> 03:07:29,359
can put that as something like you don't

5402
03:07:29,359 --> 03:07:31,680
get occupancy till all the off-site

5403
03:07:31,680 --> 03:07:33,760
improvements whatever they are are

5404
03:07:33,760 --> 03:07:35,200
completed.

5405
03:07:35,200 --> 03:07:37,359
>> We normally wouldn't do that anyway, but

5406
03:07:37,359 --> 03:07:39,600
happy happy to

5407
03:07:39,600 --> 03:07:41,920
>> for small scale is I think what you're

5408
03:07:41,920 --> 03:07:44,880
seeing such a big scale that

5409
03:07:44,880 --> 03:07:46,479
it's more noticeable.

5410
03:07:46,479 --> 03:07:48,750
>> You just call the small scale. No, no,

5411
03:07:48,750 --> 03:07:51,040
[laughter] this is big scale. The

5412
03:07:51,040 --> 03:07:53,920
housing small scale.

5413
03:07:53,920 --> 03:07:57,279
>> Could we have you do talk to us?

5414
03:07:57,279 --> 03:07:59,760
>> I think that's entirely up to you.

5415
03:07:59,760 --> 03:08:02,479
Certainly. Certainly could.

5416
03:08:02,479 --> 03:08:05,439
>> Could I could I maybe question?

5417
03:08:05,439 --> 03:08:08,479
>> Yeah, Vern. Vern has been we we've tried

5418
03:08:08,479 --> 03:08:10,080
to include Vern in a lot of those

5419
03:08:10,080 --> 03:08:11,600
meetings. So, I don't know if that would

5420
03:08:11,600 --> 03:08:13,120
be helpful to hear from Vern because

5421
03:08:13,120 --> 03:08:14,479
he's on those conversations. He's

5422
03:08:14,479 --> 03:08:15,520
hearing what they're saying. He's

5423
03:08:15,520 --> 03:08:17,920
receiving their feedback. Um, so again,

5424
03:08:17,920 --> 03:08:19,520
that's maybe one other alternative to

5425
03:08:19,520 --> 03:08:22,080
civic countries.

5426
03:08:22,080 --> 03:08:23,520
Um, and with with regard to the

5427
03:08:23,520 --> 03:08:25,520
infrastructure, I think that I mean our

5428
03:08:25,520 --> 03:08:27,359
concept plan, it doesn't give us the

5429
03:08:27,359 --> 03:08:29,600
right to take away the overpass. That's

5430
03:08:29,600 --> 03:08:31,520
not something that would be so we're

5431
03:08:31,520 --> 03:08:33,359
building that overpass and before we can

5432
03:08:33,359 --> 03:08:35,279
have one concert venue, one anything

5433
03:08:35,279 --> 03:08:37,840
here, we have to have that overpass in.

5434
03:08:37,840 --> 03:08:39,920
So if if there were if that helped I

5435
03:08:39,920 --> 03:08:41,359
guess you know we're not talking about

5436
03:08:41,359 --> 03:08:42,880
dollars and cents at this point Krice

5437
03:08:42,880 --> 03:08:44,880
but if that was helpful I think that

5438
03:08:44,880 --> 03:08:45,920
would be something that we could we

5439
03:08:45,920 --> 03:08:48,560
could absolutely consider adding

5440
03:08:48,560 --> 03:08:55,510
>> helpful you have

5441
03:08:55,520 --> 03:08:58,880
move to the next one. Okay. All right we

5442
03:08:58,880 --> 03:09:01,680
finished paragraph eight.

5443
03:09:01,680 --> 03:09:05,439
Uh okay nine. So, this one I don't know.

5444
03:09:05,439 --> 03:09:07,120
This one I mostly just wanted to address

5445
03:09:07,120 --> 03:09:09,840
a comment that was made at um planning

5446
03:09:09,840 --> 03:09:11,760
commission. I I don't know that there's

5447
03:09:11,760 --> 03:09:15,279
necessarily anything uh that was super

5448
03:09:15,279 --> 03:09:16,560
concerning about this, but there was at

5449
03:09:16,560 --> 03:09:18,000
least one person at planning commission

5450
03:09:18,000 --> 03:09:19,359
in the public comment that made a

5451
03:09:19,359 --> 03:09:21,760
comment about misunderstanding that

5452
03:09:21,760 --> 03:09:23,359
thinking that this meant that the city

5453
03:09:23,359 --> 03:09:24,720
might have to reimburse for

5454
03:09:24,720 --> 03:09:27,279
infrastructure costs. This is purely

5455
03:09:27,279 --> 03:09:29,040
about those pioneering agreements that

5456
03:09:29,040 --> 03:09:30,880
we talked about before. is that they

5457
03:09:30,880 --> 03:09:33,279
have a right to be reimbursed by other

5458
03:09:33,279 --> 03:09:35,040
developers

5459
03:09:35,040 --> 03:09:38,399
uh who might uh benefit from their

5460
03:09:38,399 --> 03:09:40,000
improvements in the future. Doesn't have

5461
03:09:40,000 --> 03:09:42,800
anything to do with city reimbursement.

5462
03:09:42,800 --> 03:09:45,359
Otherwise, any questions about this one.

5463
03:09:45,359 --> 03:09:48,800
Okay. Uh public financing cooperation.

5464
03:09:48,800 --> 03:09:52,640
Uh again, this is uh from a legal

5465
03:09:52,640 --> 03:09:54,479
perspective. I think this paragraph is a

5466
03:09:54,479 --> 03:09:57,120
pure throwaway. It doesn't really from a

5467
03:09:57,120 --> 03:09:58,240
legal perspective about what the

5468
03:09:58,240 --> 03:10:00,479
development agreement me means. It

5469
03:10:00,479 --> 03:10:01,920
doesn't matter whether this paragraph is

5470
03:10:01,920 --> 03:10:04,000
in there or not in there. The result is

5471
03:10:04,000 --> 03:10:06,160
pretty much the same because if we take

5472
03:10:06,160 --> 03:10:08,319
it out entirely, they can still come ask

5473
03:10:08,319 --> 03:10:10,399
you for anything they want. And if we

5474
03:10:10,399 --> 03:10:12,399
leave it in there, it say all it says is

5475
03:10:12,399 --> 03:10:14,640
they can come ask you. It explicitly

5476
03:10:14,640 --> 03:10:16,640
says you don't have to approve anything.

5477
03:10:16,640 --> 03:10:18,479
So from that from that legal

5478
03:10:18,479 --> 03:10:20,160
perspective, I don't really care whether

5479
03:10:20,160 --> 03:10:22,319
it's in there or not or or or what it

5480
03:10:22,319 --> 03:10:23,760
says other than that everything is

5481
03:10:23,760 --> 03:10:25,439
completely discretionary. I know that

5482
03:10:25,439 --> 03:10:27,840
there have been some questions about

5483
03:10:27,840 --> 03:10:30,800
well we want to know what those asks are

5484
03:10:30,800 --> 03:10:32,640
and I think that I think the purpose of

5485
03:10:32,640 --> 03:10:34,160
those questions as I've understood them

5486
03:10:34,160 --> 03:10:37,120
is without knowing what those uh asks

5487
03:10:37,120 --> 03:10:38,800
are we can't know whether we would

5488
03:10:38,800 --> 03:10:40,560
possibly entertain them and if we

5489
03:10:40,560 --> 03:10:42,000
wouldn't possibly entertain them the

5490
03:10:42,000 --> 03:10:44,240
whole project might not be viable. So

5491
03:10:44,240 --> 03:10:46,319
those are perfectly acceptable policy

5492
03:10:46,319 --> 03:10:50,240
questions. I would say um

5493
03:10:50,240 --> 03:10:51,680
because I think that's not really

5494
03:10:51,680 --> 03:10:53,359
related to the development agreement, I

5495
03:10:53,359 --> 03:10:55,600
would push that off to a agenda item

5496
03:10:55,600 --> 03:10:59,200
number six if that's okay. Uh assuming

5497
03:10:59,200 --> 03:11:02,800
we get to agenda item number or five.

5498
03:11:02,800 --> 03:11:04,319
Uh

5499
03:11:04,319 --> 03:11:06,640
but any other than that, any questions

5500
03:11:06,640 --> 03:11:09,279
about the DA language about public

5501
03:11:09,279 --> 03:11:11,359
financing? Yes, councelor Bogdan.

5502
03:11:11,359 --> 03:11:13,680
>> I I would move that we get rid of it.

5503
03:11:13,680 --> 03:11:16,080
pits are so under attack right now and I

5504
03:11:16,080 --> 03:11:17,439
hear the legislature is going to look at

5505
03:11:17,439 --> 03:11:20,720
those and it just it it looks messy and

5506
03:11:20,720 --> 03:11:25,760
I would prefer just to get rid of it and

5507
03:11:25,760 --> 03:11:26,960
leave it out.

5508
03:11:26,960 --> 03:11:28,960
>> Right. I mean, you know, as I commented

5509
03:11:28,960 --> 03:11:30,960
before, doesn't taking it out doesn't

5510
03:11:30,960 --> 03:11:37,110
stop them from asking for it. Um

5511
03:11:37,120 --> 03:11:38,479
» Sure.

5512
03:11:38,479 --> 03:11:41,750
Um,

5513
03:11:41,760 --> 03:11:44,080
» I think from the public's look at this

5514
03:11:44,080 --> 03:11:47,439
and from other people's looking at this,

5515
03:11:47,439 --> 03:11:49,439
it makes them think that these are the

5516
03:11:49,439 --> 03:11:51,840
things that we're going to go after. And

5517
03:11:51,840 --> 03:11:54,800
a pit is not something I personally um

5518
03:11:54,800 --> 03:11:57,279
>> could like don't be closer.

5519
03:11:57,279 --> 03:11:58,880
>> Well, they could probably do a PID just

5520
03:11:58,880 --> 03:12:00,240
for themselves, right? And then they

5521
03:12:00,240 --> 03:12:03,040
still get that rate, the city rate.

5522
03:12:03,040 --> 03:12:04,319
>> PIDs are actually better for

5523
03:12:04,319 --> 03:12:06,080
non-residential. In fact, the city has a

5524
03:12:06,080 --> 03:12:08,880
the city h the council has an

5525
03:12:08,880 --> 03:12:10,960
outstanding policy statement that's

5526
03:12:10,960 --> 03:12:12,399
never been repealed saying that they

5527
03:12:12,399 --> 03:12:13,760
will only consider them for

5528
03:12:13,760 --> 03:12:15,920
non-residential projects. The problem

5529
03:12:15,920 --> 03:12:18,080
with residential projects is it ends up

5530
03:12:18,080 --> 03:12:19,840
being the buyers of the homes later who

5531
03:12:19,840 --> 03:12:21,600
end up paying the assessment. For a

5532
03:12:21,600 --> 03:12:24,160
commercial project, the the people who

5533
03:12:24,160 --> 03:12:26,399
built the project, they knew what the

5534
03:12:26,399 --> 03:12:28,160
bond is and they're the ones that pay it

5535
03:12:28,160 --> 03:12:30,000
back later. It's essentially just a way

5536
03:12:30,000 --> 03:12:31,520
for them to get a more advantageous

5537
03:12:31,520 --> 03:12:34,560
rate. Well, it it sounds good, but it's

5538
03:12:34,560 --> 03:12:37,600
under such scrutiny that I wouldn't go

5539
03:12:37,600 --> 03:12:43,040
for it um just for that fact.

5540
03:12:43,040 --> 03:12:45,520
But yeah, like you said, it really

5541
03:12:45,520 --> 03:12:46,880
doesn't make sense to have it in here

5542
03:12:46,880 --> 03:12:51,120
and I would just prefer to have it out.

5543
03:12:51,120 --> 03:12:52,000
>> There a motion?

5544
03:12:52,000 --> 03:12:55,359
>> That's a That was a motion. Yeah.

5545
03:12:55,359 --> 03:12:57,120
>> Nobody's it. They want it in.

5546
03:12:57,120 --> 03:12:59,120
>> I'll second. You're saying you're saying

5547
03:12:59,120 --> 03:13:01,680
the whole section or just the reference?

5548
03:13:01,680 --> 03:13:03,040
>> No, the whole section. Just take it all

5549
03:13:03,040 --> 03:13:05,600
out because they can still come to us

5550
03:13:05,600 --> 03:13:07,439
like Walmart is doing.

5551
03:13:07,439 --> 03:13:08,720
>> It's just unnecessary.

5552
03:13:08,720 --> 03:13:11,760
>> It's unnecessary. It sends a message

5553
03:13:11,760 --> 03:13:14,479
and it gives to me it would give the

5554
03:13:14,479 --> 03:13:17,439
legislature some time to look at those

5555
03:13:17,439 --> 03:13:19,920
different things like the taxmental

5556
03:13:19,920 --> 03:13:24,479
financing for property and for pits.

5557
03:13:24,479 --> 03:13:26,000
Give some more clarification in that. I

5558
03:13:26,000 --> 03:13:29,040
think I think it's better all the way

5559
03:13:29,040 --> 03:13:32,319
around this.

5560
03:13:32,319 --> 03:13:36,000
>> Great. Any more discussion on that?

5561
03:13:36,000 --> 03:13:39,920
>> It was just simply to say we didn't we wanted to be transparent like

5562
03:13:39,920 --> 03:13:42,000
we didn't we we will be asking for a fit

5563
03:13:42,000 --> 03:13:43,920
in the tiff. So we didn't want that to

5564
03:13:43,920 --> 03:13:48,479
be a surprise when we do. So that's an important consideration. Um

5565
03:13:48,479 --> 03:13:50,319
there's a lot of additional work. It's

5566
03:13:50,319 --> 03:13:51,439
one of those things that's kind of a

5567
03:13:51,439 --> 03:13:54,800
placeholder similar to sound where um

5568
03:13:54,800 --> 03:13:56,720
there will be a lot of financial impacts

5569
03:13:56,720 --> 03:13:58,000
here that we've got to make sure we

5570
03:13:58,000 --> 03:13:59,760
understand clearly and we have numbers

5571
03:13:59,760 --> 03:14:02,080
with you know backup from contractors

5572
03:14:02,080 --> 03:14:03,760
and all of those things on the

5573
03:14:03,760 --> 03:14:06,000
infrastructure. Um and that requires us

5574
03:14:06,000 --> 03:14:08,880
to have further design. So those are important components that we

5575
03:14:08,880 --> 03:14:10,640
didn't want we didn't want anybody to

5576
03:14:10,640 --> 03:14:12,080
say we didn't know about it. We wanted

5577
03:14:12,080 --> 03:14:13,359
to be transparent about that. So that's

5578
03:14:13,359 --> 03:14:15,040
why it's here. Yeah. because there there

5579
03:14:15,040 --> 03:14:17,200
is no definition and to Brian's point it

5580
03:14:17,200 --> 03:14:18,720
could be thrown away but that was

5581
03:14:18,720 --> 03:14:20,160
important for us from a transparency

5582
03:14:20,160 --> 03:14:23,040
perspective.

5583
03:14:23,040 --> 03:14:25,680
>> So I think for that same reason Becky I

5584
03:14:25,680 --> 03:14:28,000
would want to do that so the public can

5585
03:14:28,000 --> 03:14:34,469
see the likelihood they can get to it.

5586
03:14:34,479 --> 03:14:39,040
I still would say no to the PID

5587
03:14:39,040 --> 03:14:42,399
period at this point in time

5588
03:14:42,399 --> 03:14:47,349
and take that completely out.

5589
03:14:47,359 --> 03:14:49,279
So I would just note though that the

5590
03:14:49,279 --> 03:14:52,160
your concerns about the PIT that you've

5591
03:14:52,160 --> 03:14:54,000
gotten from people are based on

5592
03:14:54,000 --> 03:14:56,319
misunderstanding what a PIT is. So, it

5593
03:14:56,319 --> 03:14:59,279
sounds like what we should do is more

5594
03:14:59,279 --> 03:15:00,800
education

5595
03:15:00,800 --> 03:15:02,960
and get more information available to

5596
03:15:02,960 --> 03:15:05,279
our constituents instead of foreclosing

5597
03:15:05,279 --> 03:15:14,000
a really good opportunity. It's so much of a problem that the state

5598
03:15:14,000 --> 03:15:15,840
auditor has come out and said PIDs are a

5599
03:15:15,840 --> 03:15:17,760
problem. It's so much of a problem that

5600
03:15:17,760 --> 03:15:19,760
the state legislators should be looking

5601
03:15:19,760 --> 03:15:22,720
into this this legislative session. So,

5602
03:15:22,720 --> 03:15:25,040
to me,

5603
03:15:25,040 --> 03:15:27,680
so much of a problem that I've had

5604
03:15:27,680 --> 03:15:30,399
>> even neighboring cities reach out to me

5605
03:15:30,399 --> 03:15:32,720
and say a pids are no good for anybody.

5606
03:15:32,720 --> 03:15:36,560
It's it's it's creating such a problem

5607
03:15:36,560 --> 03:15:37,200
here.

5608
03:15:37,200 --> 03:15:39,200
>> Yeah, I I hear that. I I second it so we

5609
03:15:39,200 --> 03:15:41,279
could have the discussion. I I'm

5610
03:15:41,279 --> 03:15:43,040
actually in favor of keeping in for

5611
03:15:43,040 --> 03:15:44,880
Gary's comment. I think it is important

5612
03:15:44,880 --> 03:15:47,359
for people to know uh that this this

5613
03:15:47,359 --> 03:15:48,880
will be coming. They've got that right

5614
03:15:48,880 --> 03:15:51,840
anyway. Um, so I would be in favor of

5615
03:15:51,840 --> 03:15:54,000
keeping it in for that reason and we'll

5616
03:15:54,000 --> 03:15:55,359
have that discussion when it comes to

5617
03:15:55,359 --> 03:15:57,120
us.

5618
03:15:57,120 --> 03:15:59,920
>> The numbers to look at

5619
03:15:59,920 --> 03:16:05,670
deciding without numbers.

5620
03:16:05,680 --> 03:16:07,520
» Yeah, the discussion there was a second.

5621
03:16:07,520 --> 03:16:08,560
So,

5622
03:16:08,560 --> 03:16:11,600
>> okay, we'll vote. Um, council Christian.

5623
03:16:11,600 --> 03:16:12,720
>> Uh, no.

5624
03:16:12,720 --> 03:16:14,000
>> Councelor Gat,

5625
03:16:14,000 --> 03:16:14,479
>> no.

5626
03:16:14,479 --> 03:16:15,840
>> Councelor Hoben,

5627
03:16:15,840 --> 03:16:16,800
>> no.

5628
03:16:16,800 --> 03:16:19,279
>> Councelor Whipple, no. Councelor Bogdan.

5629
03:16:19,279 --> 03:16:19,760
>> Yes.

5630
03:16:19,760 --> 03:16:21,200
>> Councelor Whitlock,

5631
03:16:21,200 --> 03:16:21,840
>> no.

5632
03:16:21,840 --> 03:16:27,349
>> Councelor McCay, yes. No,

5633
03:16:27,359 --> 03:16:32,550
» she doesn't know what she wants.

5634
03:16:32,560 --> 03:16:35,520
» Okay, I got

5635
03:16:35,520 --> 03:16:38,000
few more things. Uh, section 10, grading

5636
03:16:38,000 --> 03:16:41,279
site adaptation. Again, this says that

5637
03:16:41,279 --> 03:16:43,279
they have to comply with the development

5638
03:16:43,279 --> 03:16:45,760
ordinances. They may not disturb slopes

5639
03:16:45,760 --> 03:16:47,760
greater than 30%.

5640
03:16:47,760 --> 03:16:49,279
um that have not been previously

5641
03:16:49,279 --> 03:16:50,880
disturbed without first obtaining

5642
03:16:50,880 --> 03:16:52,160
approval through the normal city

5643
03:16:52,160 --> 03:16:53,760
process. This is this paragraph

5644
03:16:53,760 --> 03:16:55,920
essentially just binds them to uh abide

5645
03:16:55,920 --> 03:16:57,920
by the city's grading ordinances and

5646
03:16:57,920 --> 03:16:59,520
spells it out as specific.

5647
03:16:59,520 --> 03:17:02,560
>> So Brian, help me with the um first

5648
03:17:02,560 --> 03:17:06,399
obtain uh let's see where did it go.

5649
03:17:06,399 --> 03:17:09,200
Having been previously disturbed, what

5650
03:17:09,200 --> 03:17:10,800
does that mean?

5651
03:17:10,800 --> 03:17:13,040
>> Let's see. So that's second to the last

5652
03:17:13,040 --> 03:17:17,200
line. Been previously disturbed. So, uh,

5653
03:17:17,200 --> 03:17:20,560
there's two there's two process. Did

5654
03:17:20,560 --> 03:17:22,720
Bill Hannah maybe Hannah knows the

5655
03:17:22,720 --> 03:17:24,960
answer to this? There's, as I understand

5656
03:17:24,960 --> 03:17:31,520
it, there's first of all, there's a flatout prohibition on

5657
03:17:31,520 --> 03:17:33,600
building on slopes greater than 30%,

5658
03:17:33,600 --> 03:17:36,720
unless uh, engineering has signed off on

5659
03:17:36,720 --> 03:17:40,880
it. There's secondarily also

5660
03:17:40,880 --> 03:17:43,600
a prohibition in the OSPR zone, which

5661
03:17:43,600 --> 03:17:45,040
remember we're changing away from that.

5662
03:17:45,040 --> 03:17:47,200
So this this is essentially designed to

5663
03:17:47,200 --> 03:17:50,560
maintain the OSPR zone protection even

5664
03:17:50,560 --> 03:17:53,040
when uh even during the time that

5665
03:17:53,040 --> 03:17:54,880
they're under construction because in

5666
03:17:54,880 --> 03:17:58,399
the OSPR zone engineering can't grant

5667
03:17:58,399 --> 03:18:02,000
the exemption except for an except for

5668
03:18:02,000 --> 03:18:04,640
an area that's already been previously

5669
03:18:04,640 --> 03:18:07,359
uh disturbed. Does that make sense?

5670
03:18:07,359 --> 03:18:11,760
>> Yeah. So let's say uh uh uh some portion

5671
03:18:11,760 --> 03:18:16,000
of the hill was disturbed 50 years ago.

5672
03:18:16,000 --> 03:18:18,000
It's reveated, but at some point that

5673
03:18:18,000 --> 03:18:19,520
was actually at, but now it's kind of

5674
03:18:19,520 --> 03:18:22,160
back. Um

5675
03:18:22,160 --> 03:18:24,080
>> and do you remember your head what the

5676
03:18:24,080 --> 03:18:24,960
definition

5677
03:18:24,960 --> 03:18:27,920
>> of disturbed is in no SPR? And if you

5678
03:18:27,920 --> 03:18:30,000
do, could you

5679
03:18:30,000 --> 03:18:37,269
tell us your phone?

5680
03:18:37,279 --> 03:18:38,560
I couldn't give you the definition from

5681
03:18:38,560 --> 03:18:40,000
the code off the top of my head. I need

5682
03:18:40,000 --> 03:18:41,279
to look that up. But I could tell you

5683
03:18:41,279 --> 03:18:43,120
how we would interpret that. In that

5684
03:18:43,120 --> 03:18:45,279
case, if it is reeducated, we look at

5685
03:18:45,279 --> 03:18:47,359
disturbed less as a verb. It was

5686
03:18:47,359 --> 03:18:49,520
disturbed at one point and more as an

5687
03:18:49,520 --> 03:18:50,960
adjective. Would it currently be

5688
03:18:50,960 --> 03:18:53,279
described as a disturbed piece of land?

5689
03:18:53,279 --> 03:18:55,359
And if the answer is no, not currently

5690
03:18:55,359 --> 03:18:58,319
disturbed, then we would consider it.

5691
03:18:58,319 --> 03:19:00,080
>> And that's my that's my understanding

5692
03:19:00,080 --> 03:19:02,239
too. And and uh councelor Christian to

5693
03:19:02,239 --> 03:19:04,800
your point if you would like us to make

5694
03:19:04,800 --> 03:19:06,720
sure that the DA says that even if

5695
03:19:06,720 --> 03:19:08,160
that's not what the code says I'm happy

5696
03:19:08,160 --> 03:19:08,720
to do that.

5697
03:19:08,720 --> 03:19:10,000
>> That would be that would be helpful.

5698
03:19:10,000 --> 03:19:10,880
>> Okay.

5699
03:19:10,880 --> 03:19:14,800
>> I mean there's others saying

5700
03:19:14,800 --> 03:19:17,162
>> I now we're I got a majority already.

5701
03:19:17,162 --> 03:19:17,920
[laughter]

5702
03:19:17,920 --> 03:19:19,600
Okay. I saw enough headnods. We'll move

5703
03:19:19,600 --> 03:19:24,357
on on that one. Okay.

5704
03:19:24,367 --> 03:19:25,439
[laughter]

5705
03:19:25,439 --> 03:19:26,960
>> I just got to know what you want and if

5706
03:19:26,960 --> 03:19:29,600
enough of you Okay. So here is the

5707
03:19:29,600 --> 03:19:34,080
default provision. Um I bring this up uh

5708
03:19:34,080 --> 03:19:36,479
principally just because there was some

5709
03:19:36,479 --> 03:19:38,880
public comment about this sentence about

5710
03:19:38,880 --> 03:19:41,200
not being uh extending the 60-day period

5711
03:19:41,200 --> 03:19:42,880
for cure if it cannot reasonably be

5712
03:19:42,880 --> 03:19:45,279
cured within 60-day period. And the only

5713
03:19:45,279 --> 03:19:46,800
thing I can say about that and maybe

5714
03:19:46,800 --> 03:19:48,720
councelor Ripple can back me up on this

5715
03:19:48,720 --> 03:19:51,920
is that that is completely standard. Um

5716
03:19:51,920 --> 03:19:54,319
that that's just how cure provisions are

5717
03:19:54,319 --> 03:19:59,120
normally uh written. I can't say that it

5718
03:19:59,120 --> 03:20:01,200
is

5719
03:20:01,200 --> 03:20:03,279
I I mean there is some flexibility to it

5720
03:20:03,279 --> 03:20:05,840
but that flexibility is on purpose

5721
03:20:05,840 --> 03:20:08,160
because sometimes something that you

5722
03:20:08,160 --> 03:20:10,960
have to cure can't be cured in 60 days.

5723
03:20:10,960 --> 03:20:14,160
So um I'll move on unless somebody tells

5724
03:20:14,160 --> 03:20:17,840
me to stop. uh remedies. Uh this lists

5725
03:20:17,840 --> 03:20:19,200
the remedies and I will say one of again

5726
03:20:19,200 --> 03:20:20,560
one of the public comments that thrown

5727
03:20:20,560 --> 03:20:23,279
out there about this is there there

5728
03:20:23,279 --> 03:20:25,120
there's been I've seen a few comments

5729
03:20:25,120 --> 03:20:27,680
asking us to add monetary damages back

5730
03:20:27,680 --> 03:20:30,239
in instead of explicitly removing them.

5731
03:20:30,239 --> 03:20:32,880
And I can only say that in my experience

5732
03:20:32,880 --> 03:20:35,279
as a city attorney that's a bad idea

5733
03:20:35,279 --> 03:20:37,279
because judges are really willing to

5734
03:20:37,279 --> 03:20:39,840
grant monetary damages to developers and

5735
03:20:39,840 --> 03:20:42,239
really not willing to grant monetary

5736
03:20:42,239 --> 03:20:44,479
damages to municipalities. So, it's

5737
03:20:44,479 --> 03:20:46,960
actually, in my view, a protection to

5738
03:20:46,960 --> 03:20:49,600
the city not to have that in there. And

5739
03:20:49,600 --> 03:20:51,040
if we add it back in, I think we're

5740
03:20:51,040 --> 03:20:52,640
increasing our liability instead of

5741
03:20:52,640 --> 03:20:54,960
reducing it.

5742
03:20:54,960 --> 03:20:58,880
Any questions about that? Okay.

5743
03:20:58,880 --> 03:21:01,359
Uh, okay. These are I think these are my

5744
03:21:01,359 --> 03:21:04,399
last two things is is the uh deadlines.

5745
03:21:04,399 --> 03:21:06,000
So, we've got the deadline in here about

5746
03:21:06,000 --> 03:21:07,439
commencing construction that they have

5747
03:21:07,439 --> 03:21:10,560
to do that within 3 years. uh and it's

5748
03:21:10,560 --> 03:21:12,960
defined as pouring the footings and

5749
03:21:12,960 --> 03:21:14,880
foundation for the venue and passing

5750
03:21:14,880 --> 03:21:18,479
inspection. Um I will note one of the

5751
03:21:18,479 --> 03:21:20,479
things that I realized while we were

5752
03:21:20,479 --> 03:21:21,760
while I was preparing this whole thing

5753
03:21:21,760 --> 03:21:24,000
is the definition of this term is

5754
03:21:24,000 --> 03:21:26,000
actually slightly different in the repsy

5755
03:21:26,000 --> 03:21:27,840
addendum but one of the things that I'm

5756
03:21:27,840 --> 03:21:29,040
already planning to take care of is

5757
03:21:29,040 --> 03:21:30,399
making the two align because they're a

5758
03:21:30,399 --> 03:21:33,840
little bit different. Um any questions

5759
03:21:33,840 --> 03:21:36,000
about that concept or language?

5760
03:21:36,000 --> 03:21:36,960
>> Just out of curiosity.

5761
03:21:36,960 --> 03:21:41,359
>> Yes. um brought footings in that.

5762
03:21:41,359 --> 03:21:42,800
>> Bill ran away, didn't he? Bill was the

5763
03:21:42,800 --> 03:21:44,399
one that suggested that. He was the one

5764
03:21:44,399 --> 03:21:47,120
that suggested that having those poured

5765
03:21:47,120 --> 03:21:49,840
and the inspection done was the shest

5766
03:21:49,840 --> 03:21:51,520
sign that things were really going

5767
03:21:51,520 --> 03:21:53,439
forward and that it wasn't just what he

5768
03:21:53,439 --> 03:21:55,680
didn't want it to be is they just graded

5769
03:21:55,680 --> 03:21:57,680
the site and that counted.

5770
03:21:57,680 --> 03:21:59,359
>> Just put up a fence and say, "Hey, we

5771
03:21:59,359 --> 03:22:00,640
started construction because we're

5772
03:22:00,640 --> 03:22:03,279
staging." We didn't want that. We wanted

5773
03:22:03,279 --> 03:22:04,399
meaningful.

5774
03:22:04,399 --> 03:22:06,960
>> So, we wanted something substantial.

5775
03:22:06,960 --> 03:22:07,600
Uh,

5776
03:22:07,600 --> 03:22:08,319
>> I'm sorry.

5777
03:22:08,319 --> 03:22:10,800
>> Yeah.

5778
03:22:10,800 --> 03:22:13,840
>> And the footing the foundation for the

5779
03:22:13,840 --> 03:22:15,840
>> for the for the amphitheater. For the

5780
03:22:15,840 --> 03:22:16,720
amphitheater,

5781
03:22:16,720 --> 03:22:18,399
>> not hotel, not the other things,

5782
03:22:18,399 --> 03:22:19,200
>> right?

5783
03:22:19,200 --> 03:22:20,720
>> So, they've got three years to get the

5784
03:22:20,720 --> 03:22:21,920
amphitheater in

5785
03:22:21,920 --> 03:22:24,000
>> to get the footings and foundations in.

5786
03:22:24,000 --> 03:22:24,800
>> Yeah. Yeah.

5787
03:22:24,800 --> 03:22:26,560
>> But they could get the hotel in

5788
03:22:26,560 --> 03:22:27,760
>> sooner, you know. Right.

5789
03:22:27,760 --> 03:22:30,160
>> Sooner. And and and part of the reason

5790
03:22:30,160 --> 03:22:32,720
for specifying that was to prevent

5791
03:22:32,720 --> 03:22:34,399
building the hotel and never building

5792
03:22:34,399 --> 03:22:35,359
the amphitheater.

5793
03:22:35,359 --> 03:22:36,960
>> Yeah. Yeah, makes sense.

5794
03:22:36,960 --> 03:22:39,040
>> And Brian, that's how you define in good

5795
03:22:39,040 --> 03:22:42,479
faith. Then also um up earlier, it it

5796
03:22:42,479 --> 03:22:45,040
does not [clears throat] result in a

5797
03:22:45,040 --> 03:22:49,760
lapse or forfeite as long as there's as

5798
03:22:49,760 --> 03:22:51,840
long as they've commenced construction.

5799
03:22:51,840 --> 03:22:53,760
>> Well, and it's delay in commencement

5800
03:22:53,760 --> 03:22:56,720
during the three-year period. Th this

5801
03:22:56,720 --> 03:22:59,040
word is really important. So, this

5802
03:22:59,040 --> 03:22:59,439
during

5803
03:22:59,439 --> 03:23:01,439
>> this sentence doesn't ex doesn't

5804
03:23:01,439 --> 03:23:03,680
lengthen the three-year period.

5805
03:23:03,680 --> 03:23:05,840
This sentence is kind of not necessary

5806
03:23:05,840 --> 03:23:10,000
because we're already saying but they actually asked for the sentence and

5807
03:23:10,000 --> 03:23:11,920
it it the purpose of this sentence is

5808
03:23:11,920 --> 03:23:18,640
just to say we can't try to trigger the this clause before the three years

5809
03:23:18,640 --> 03:23:21,920
are up. Um unless it's because they're

5810
03:23:21,920 --> 03:23:24,319
doing absolutely nothing.

5811
03:23:24,319 --> 03:23:27,429
Does that make sense?

5812
03:23:27,439 --> 03:23:28,800
Kevin,

5813
03:23:28,800 --> 03:23:30,160
>> go ahead, Kevin.

5814
03:23:30,160 --> 03:23:32,960
>> Oh, Travis. [clears throat]

5815
03:23:32,960 --> 03:23:35,200
>> Yeah. Hey, Brian. Um, I think earlier in

5816
03:23:35,200 --> 03:23:36,720
the meeting you said that they could

5817
03:23:36,720 --> 03:23:41,040
operate the hotel prior to the

5818
03:23:41,040 --> 03:23:44,640
amphitheater being um being completed.

5819
03:23:44,640 --> 03:23:49,520
>> Yes. And um I well I had expressed my

5820
03:23:49,520 --> 03:23:51,920
concern with that that ultimately we

5821
03:23:51,920 --> 03:23:54,239
could end up with a hotel and a

5822
03:23:54,239 --> 03:23:56,560
restaurant and a parking lot and then

5823
03:23:56,560 --> 03:23:58,800
all of a sudden the economics changes

5824
03:23:58,800 --> 03:24:01,359
and you know oh we can't build the

5825
03:24:01,359 --> 03:24:03,120
amphitheater it's not going to be viable

5826
03:24:03,120 --> 03:24:06,479
or whatever happens covid 20 co 21 you

5827
03:24:06,479 --> 03:24:09,520
know whatever it is and um I don't want

5828
03:24:09,520 --> 03:24:11,840
us to if if we're going through this

5829
03:24:11,840 --> 03:24:14,640
whole exercise for vesper

5830
03:24:14,640 --> 03:24:17,600
And I know they want Vesper, too, but um

5831
03:24:17,600 --> 03:24:20,479
I don't want us to end up with a

5832
03:24:20,479 --> 03:24:23,359
hotel uh and a restaurant at at the foot

5833
03:24:23,359 --> 03:24:25,680
of the canyon and never get the

5834
03:24:25,680 --> 03:24:27,920
amphitheater that we were, you know,

5835
03:24:27,920 --> 03:24:30,000
approving all of this for in the first

5836
03:24:30,000 --> 03:24:32,720
place. Um even if we get a foundation

5837
03:24:32,720 --> 03:24:35,760
and footings. So, I guess it's kind of a

5838
03:24:35,760 --> 03:24:38,479
non-starter for me that I didn't want

5839
03:24:38,479 --> 03:24:41,279
the hotel operating prior to the

5840
03:24:41,279 --> 03:24:44,239
amphitheater being built. Um, so I guess

5841
03:24:44,239 --> 03:24:46,080
I'm a little bit thrown off by that that

5842
03:24:46,080 --> 03:24:48,479
I thought that we had had that pretty

5843
03:24:48,479 --> 03:24:50,080
much covered, but it sounds like we

5844
03:24:50,080 --> 03:24:52,960
don't

5845
03:24:52,960 --> 03:24:54,560
>> I am not remembering anything off the

5846
03:24:54,560 --> 03:24:56,000
top of my head that would prevent that

5847
03:24:56,000 --> 03:24:58,000
from happening. I don't know how

5848
03:24:58,000 --> 03:24:59,680
important that is to the developer and

5849
03:24:59,680 --> 03:25:01,279
whether they're they'd be willing to

5850
03:25:01,279 --> 03:25:03,680
change it. I guess in my mind and but

5851
03:25:03,680 --> 03:25:05,200
you're you know this is something I

5852
03:25:05,200 --> 03:25:07,680
hadn't really thought of is you in my

5853
03:25:07,680 --> 03:25:10,160
mind this provision that we're looking

5854
03:25:10,160 --> 03:25:11,760
at right now kind of addressed that

5855
03:25:11,760 --> 03:25:16,720
because uh if they built the hotel I

5856
03:25:16,720 --> 03:25:18,960
mean I don't know I I wouldn't want to

5857
03:25:18,960 --> 03:25:20,720
build a hotel and a restaurant and then

5858
03:25:20,720 --> 03:25:22,880
pour foundation and footings next to it

5859
03:25:22,880 --> 03:25:24,800
that never get built on. I don't think

5860
03:25:24,800 --> 03:25:26,000
that's going to make your hotel very

5861
03:25:26,000 --> 03:25:28,479
successful. uh but if they don't do that

5862
03:25:28,479 --> 03:25:31,920
within three years then uh this

5863
03:25:31,920 --> 03:25:33,760
provision and the provision to retake

5864
03:25:33,760 --> 03:25:36,960
the property both trigger but I guess I

5865
03:25:36,960 --> 03:25:38,720
guess you are right that they could

5866
03:25:38,720 --> 03:25:41,040
theoretically build the hotel under the

5867
03:25:41,040 --> 03:25:42,560
current terms of the agreement build the

5868
03:25:42,560 --> 03:25:44,800
hotel and the restaurant put them into

5869
03:25:44,800 --> 03:25:47,520
operation pour the footings and then

5870
03:25:47,520 --> 03:25:49,600
wait until the seven-year period and

5871
03:25:49,600 --> 03:25:52,479
they could operate the hotel for 5 to

5872
03:25:52,479 --> 03:25:54,720
seven years without the amphitheater

5873
03:25:54,720 --> 03:25:56,239
being built under the current terms of

5874
03:25:56,239 --> 03:25:57,439
the agreement.

5875
03:25:57,439 --> 03:25:58,880
which is not our intent and we're

5876
03:25:58,880 --> 03:26:00,880
willing to make what Travis has said

5877
03:26:00,880 --> 03:26:01,840
explicit.

5878
03:26:01,840 --> 03:26:02,319
>> Okay.

5879
03:26:02,319 --> 03:26:04,080
>> So, yeah, that's that's not a that's not

5880
03:26:04,080 --> 03:26:05,760
a concern. Yeah. Is that okay with you,

5881
03:26:05,760 --> 03:26:07,853
Jeff? All right. Any It looks like

5882
03:26:07,853 --> 03:26:08,479
[laughter]

5883
03:26:08,479 --> 03:26:09,840
>> Okay. Yeah,

5884
03:26:09,840 --> 03:26:11,760
>> I appreciate that. I I think just

5885
03:26:11,760 --> 03:26:14,239
however we need to solidify all that. I

5886
03:26:14,239 --> 03:26:15,680
know that's not your intent. I just want

5887
03:26:15,680 --> 03:26:17,600
to I I don't think you guys would ever

5888
03:26:17,600 --> 03:26:19,359
do anything unintentional or

5889
03:26:19,359 --> 03:26:21,279
intentionally, but sometimes things

5890
03:26:21,279 --> 03:26:23,680
change, right? And so, whatever can

5891
03:26:23,680 --> 03:26:24,720
protect us.

5892
03:26:24,720 --> 03:26:26,640
>> It's what Brian just said. It's it's

5893
03:26:26,640 --> 03:26:28,720
maybe aesthetically unappealing. The the

5894
03:26:28,720 --> 03:26:30,479
infrastructure to get water to get one

5895
03:26:30,479 --> 03:26:32,880
drop of water at the site is going to be

5896
03:26:32,880 --> 03:26:35,439
very expensive and so uh we couldn't do

5897
03:26:35,439 --> 03:26:36,960
that with just the hotel or the

5898
03:26:36,960 --> 03:26:38,319
restaurant or one component of the

5899
03:26:38,319 --> 03:26:40,399
project. It would be it's a package. So

5900
03:26:40,399 --> 03:26:41,760
yeah, for sure we can we can make that

5901
03:26:41,760 --> 03:26:42,880
more explicit. We'll propose some

5902
03:26:42,880 --> 03:26:45,920
language to do just that.

5903
03:26:45,920 --> 03:26:49,040
>> Okay, that was actually my last item for

5904
03:26:49,040 --> 03:26:53,200
agenda the item number three. So, let me

5905
03:26:53,200 --> 03:26:55,920
uh before you move to item number four,

5906
03:26:55,920 --> 03:26:58,160
I suppose let me propose this and then

5907
03:26:58,160 --> 03:27:00,160
I'll let uh Brian stand up and talk

5908
03:27:00,160 --> 03:27:02,239
about number five. My proposal would be

5909
03:27:02,239 --> 03:27:05,600
that we skip number four. And the reason

5910
03:27:05,600 --> 03:27:08,720
why is because I think most of the

5911
03:27:08,720 --> 03:27:11,439
discussion that we would have about

5912
03:27:11,439 --> 03:27:13,439
number four that's actually which is the

5913
03:27:13,439 --> 03:27:16,160
real estate purchase contract addendum

5914
03:27:16,160 --> 03:27:18,319
that is relevant

5915
03:27:18,319 --> 03:27:22,000
is not might all be moot two weeks from

5916
03:27:22,000 --> 03:27:23,840
now because because we have yet to have

5917
03:27:23,840 --> 03:27:25,760
the developer actually make an actual

5918
03:27:25,760 --> 03:27:30,080
offer as to land purchase price trade

5919
03:27:30,080 --> 03:27:32,319
etc. But I understand that they are

5920
03:27:32,319 --> 03:27:35,760
close to doing that and doing that might

5921
03:27:35,760 --> 03:27:38,479
make the entire gate framework moot. So

5922
03:27:38,479 --> 03:27:39,760
we could spend a lot of time right now

5923
03:27:39,760 --> 03:27:41,040
going through how comfortable you are

5924
03:27:41,040 --> 03:27:42,399
with the gates and have it not even

5925
03:27:42,399 --> 03:27:45,279
matter. Uh so my proposal we would just

5926
03:27:45,279 --> 03:27:47,279
skip it. If for some reason the gates

5927
03:27:47,279 --> 03:27:49,680
are still relevant two weeks from now

5928
03:27:49,680 --> 03:27:53,120
and approval of everything is on the is

5929
03:27:53,120 --> 03:27:54,560
on the evening meeting two weeks from

5930
03:27:54,560 --> 03:27:56,960
now, we could talk about the gates in uh

5931
03:27:56,960 --> 03:27:59,680
in the work meeting on that day to make

5932
03:27:59,680 --> 03:28:01,520
sure that everybody's

5933
03:28:01,520 --> 03:28:03,600
uh I mean we probably need to if if

5934
03:28:03,600 --> 03:28:04,960
we're going to vote if you're going to

5935
03:28:04,960 --> 03:28:06,800
vote on September 8th, we're probably

5936
03:28:06,800 --> 03:28:09,040
going to need work meeting items anyway

5937
03:28:09,040 --> 03:28:11,520
to review all the changes to things. So

5938
03:28:11,520 --> 03:28:13,600
I'm I'm willing to give up my time for

5939
03:28:13,600 --> 03:28:14,880
number four. I think that's actually the

5940
03:28:14,880 --> 03:28:16,960
right thing to do. And I'll let Brian

5941
03:28:16,960 --> 03:28:18,640
speak to whether they need number five

5942
03:28:18,640 --> 03:28:20,560
or whether

5943
03:28:20,560 --> 03:28:23,359
or yeah because it may it may be they've

5944
03:28:23,359 --> 03:28:25,200
probably answer said a lot of the stuff

5945
03:28:25,200 --> 03:28:28,080
they were going to say during our

5946
03:28:28,080 --> 03:28:29,840
discussion for the last two weeks.

5947
03:28:29,840 --> 03:28:33,359
>> We we do have if if helpful again I want

5948
03:28:33,359 --> 03:28:34,800
to maybe provide this as an opportunity

5949
03:28:34,800 --> 03:28:36,160
as opposed to something that we have to

5950
03:28:36,160 --> 03:28:38,880
do but we've got Piper Sandler that is

5951
03:28:38,880 --> 03:28:41,520
online and available to join. Um they

5952
03:28:41,520 --> 03:28:42,880
were going to kind of give a high level

5953
03:28:42,880 --> 03:28:45,279
maybe five seven minutes tops to go over

5954
03:28:45,279 --> 03:28:47,200
a couple just three or four slides to

5955
03:28:47,200 --> 03:28:49,680
kind of give a high level of the shoot I

5956
03:28:49,680 --> 03:28:52,319
didn't want that to close so yeah the

5957
03:28:52,319 --> 03:28:54,000
economic impact the fiscal economic

5958
03:28:54,000 --> 03:28:56,080
impact so that's helpful Krice that's

5959
03:28:56,080 --> 03:29:00,000
that you know Craig council

5960
03:29:00,000 --> 03:29:01,840
>> and you're

5961
03:29:01,840 --> 03:29:02,319
>> yes

5962
03:29:02,319 --> 03:29:10,389
>> right so you'll say okay and together

5963
03:29:10,399 --> 03:29:16,790
tell you who the question is.

5964
03:29:16,800 --> 03:29:21,670
» Q&A or

5965
03:29:21,680 --> 03:29:22,800
let's just go there.

5966
03:29:22,800 --> 03:29:24,000
>> Yeah, I think like so I think the

5967
03:29:24,000 --> 03:29:26,640
question is do we do we still do number

5968
03:29:26,640 --> 03:29:28,720
five and let them present that five

5969
03:29:28,720 --> 03:29:30,080
minutes they just talked about

5970
03:29:30,080 --> 03:29:31,600
>> or we skip number five and go straight

5971
03:29:31,600 --> 03:29:32,640
to close meeting?

5972
03:29:32,640 --> 03:29:34,080
>> Yeah,

5973
03:29:34,080 --> 03:29:39,190
>> five minutes.

5974
03:29:39,200 --> 03:29:45,590
I don't think you can just

5975
03:29:45,600 --> 03:29:48,640
» We can't hear you if you're uh if you're

5976
03:29:48,640 --> 03:29:49,359
talking. Eric,

5977
03:29:49,359 --> 03:29:50,960
>> we couldn't hear us. We were muted. So

5978
03:29:50,960 --> 03:29:52,560
Oh, Eric, here we are.

5979
03:29:52,560 --> 03:29:52,960
>> Hi.

5980
03:29:52,960 --> 03:29:54,080
>> Can you hear us?

5981
03:29:54,080 --> 03:29:55,200
>> Yes, I can.

5982
03:29:55,200 --> 03:29:56,479
>> Okay. Sorry. I just made a quick

5983
03:29:56,479 --> 03:29:58,160
introduction, but we were on mute on our

5984
03:29:58,160 --> 03:29:59,279
end. So, we just made a quick

5985
03:29:59,279 --> 03:30:02,319
introduction to you uh and Benj um

5986
03:30:02,319 --> 03:30:05,520
Becker um they're with uh with Piper

5987
03:30:05,520 --> 03:30:07,920
Sandler, big public finance guy. So, um

5988
03:30:07,920 --> 03:30:09,200
the council members here and we'd love

5989
03:30:09,200 --> 03:30:10,560
to spend just a couple minutes going

5990
03:30:10,560 --> 03:30:13,120
over the the highle uh kind of results

5991
03:30:13,120 --> 03:30:14,880
of the report. So,

5992
03:30:14,880 --> 03:30:16,800
>> yeah, great great to be with you this

5993
03:30:16,800 --> 03:30:18,800
afternoon, council. Um thank you for the

5994
03:30:18,800 --> 03:30:21,600
time. Um, so as Brian mentioned, he

5995
03:30:21,600 --> 03:30:24,000
engaged our team to look at the economic

5996
03:30:24,000 --> 03:30:25,840
and fiscal impacts of the Vesper

5997
03:30:25,840 --> 03:30:28,239
project. And what you're seeing in the

5998
03:30:28,239 --> 03:30:30,479
presentation today is a highle summary

5999
03:30:30,479 --> 03:30:32,640
of a larger report that we've produced

6000
03:30:32,640 --> 03:30:35,279
for the team. So I'm happy to entertain

6001
03:30:35,279 --> 03:30:37,359
any questions that come from this, but

6002
03:30:37,359 --> 03:30:39,120
we'll take about 5 minutes to just walk

6003
03:30:39,120 --> 03:30:40,640
you through some of the highlights. And

6004
03:30:40,640 --> 03:30:42,640
I would consider this a sort of an

6005
03:30:42,640 --> 03:30:46,319
executive summary level. Um and I think

6006
03:30:46,319 --> 03:30:47,760
the first thing we wanted to highlight

6007
03:30:47,760 --> 03:30:50,640
to you is um if the project moves

6008
03:30:50,640 --> 03:30:53,200
forward, the Vesper team is certainly

6009
03:30:53,200 --> 03:30:55,760
has to construct a significant um amount

6010
03:30:55,760 --> 03:30:59,520
of assets. So in terms of looking at the

6011
03:30:59,520 --> 03:31:02,479
direct construction costs, it's it's

6012
03:31:02,479 --> 03:31:05,520
currently programmed at 540 million and

6013
03:31:05,520 --> 03:31:08,640
we conservatively use that as the basis

6014
03:31:08,640 --> 03:31:12,080
for our assessed value projections. So

6015
03:31:12,080 --> 03:31:14,800
in terms of um the remaining projections

6016
03:31:14,800 --> 03:31:16,720
that you'll see affiliated with property

6017
03:31:16,720 --> 03:31:20,080
tax, we just went with the pure, you

6018
03:31:20,080 --> 03:31:22,880
know, hard construction capex of 540

6019
03:31:22,880 --> 03:31:26,239
million as the as an assumed number that

6020
03:31:26,239 --> 03:31:28,800
the county assessor at minimum could

6021
03:31:28,800 --> 03:31:30,960
apply to the to the property once it's

6022
03:31:30,960 --> 03:31:33,040
built out. Although we think that that

6023
03:31:33,040 --> 03:31:36,239
could be um more than that. In addition,

6024
03:31:36,239 --> 03:31:38,880
as the project comes online, we know

6025
03:31:38,880 --> 03:31:40,560
that there's going to be significant

6026
03:31:40,560 --> 03:31:42,800
staffing needs, and that may flex up and

6027
03:31:42,800 --> 03:31:45,200
down as events occur, but um working

6028
03:31:45,200 --> 03:31:47,840
with Brian and the Vesper team, we see

6029
03:31:47,840 --> 03:31:50,640
at least of about a thousand jobs if I'm

6030
03:31:50,640 --> 03:31:53,680
rounding, but 957 jobs programmed at the

6031
03:31:53,680 --> 03:31:56,560
moment. So, those people will, you know,

6032
03:31:56,560 --> 03:32:00,160
s certainly add um demand into the

6033
03:32:00,160 --> 03:32:02,000
economy. There's also going to be some

6034
03:32:02,000 --> 03:32:04,399
costs that come along with that. But

6035
03:32:04,399 --> 03:32:06,560
improving the employment opportunities,

6036
03:32:06,560 --> 03:32:08,640
the employment base with a variety of

6037
03:32:08,640 --> 03:32:12,720
positions um for the project um as well.

6038
03:32:12,720 --> 03:32:15,760
the in addition to the hard cost numbers

6039
03:32:15,760 --> 03:32:18,399
that we talked about of 540 million,

6040
03:32:18,399 --> 03:32:21,120
we've looked into some indirect impacts

6041
03:32:21,120 --> 03:32:23,359
and I I would say that overall the

6042
03:32:23,359 --> 03:32:26,080
analysis that we've provided you now is

6043
03:32:26,080 --> 03:32:28,560
very conservative and it mostly does not

6044
03:32:28,560 --> 03:32:31,120
delve into secondary and tertiary

6045
03:32:31,120 --> 03:32:33,359
economic impacts. This is mostly a

6046
03:32:33,359 --> 03:32:36,560
primary impact analysis, but looking

6047
03:32:36,560 --> 03:32:38,960
through some of the Bureau of Economic

6048
03:32:38,960 --> 03:32:41,439
Analysis multipliers as they pertain to

6049
03:32:41,439 --> 03:32:44,319
construction in our region, we see that

6050
03:32:44,319 --> 03:32:46,640
while the Vesper team might be spending

6051
03:32:46,640 --> 03:32:49,520
540 million in hard costs, that also has

6052
03:32:49,520 --> 03:32:51,520
a cascading benefit through the

6053
03:32:51,520 --> 03:32:53,600
construction industry. Um, as

6054
03:32:53,600 --> 03:32:55,680
contractors come, you know, on site,

6055
03:32:55,680 --> 03:32:57,680
they pay workers, those dollars move out

6056
03:32:57,680 --> 03:33:01,040
into your community. So if we if we just

6057
03:33:01,040 --> 03:33:04,160
want to we want to give you sort of a a

6058
03:33:04,160 --> 03:33:06,560
number that you can you can interpret

6059
03:33:06,560 --> 03:33:09,040
through your annual budgeting process.

6060
03:33:09,040 --> 03:33:11,600
Um I actually used to work in government

6061
03:33:11,600 --> 03:33:13,840
myself and I always wanted to know how

6062
03:33:13,840 --> 03:33:16,319
much does this actually help me or cost

6063
03:33:16,319 --> 03:33:20,000
me per year um in terms of this change.

6064
03:33:20,000 --> 03:33:23,439
So at minimum we see a positive net

6065
03:33:23,439 --> 03:33:27,040
impact for the city of $2.3 million per

6066
03:33:27,040 --> 03:33:29,439
year. Um, we've also given some other

6067
03:33:29,439 --> 03:33:31,200
ways to view that, which would be total

6068
03:33:31,200 --> 03:33:33,840
cash flows over a 30-year period or net

6069
03:33:33,840 --> 03:33:35,439
present value.

6070
03:33:35,439 --> 03:33:38,239
um those are perhaps less important, but

6071
03:33:38,239 --> 03:33:40,560
you could think you could think of the

6072
03:33:40,560 --> 03:33:43,279
fact that after the project is up and

6073
03:33:43,279 --> 03:33:46,319
absorbed and running online, every year

6074
03:33:46,319 --> 03:33:48,720
when you enter your budget process, you

6075
03:33:48,720 --> 03:33:55,840
would have $2.3 million more likely to allocate and program for general city

6076
03:33:55,840 --> 03:33:58,560
services than you would have today. So,

6077
03:33:58,560 --> 03:34:00,640
that's one lens that you could look look

6078
03:34:00,640 --> 03:34:03,680
at it through. Um, moving on to the next

6079
03:34:03,680 --> 03:34:07,439
slide. I think we wanted to and and

6080
03:34:07,439 --> 03:34:10,960
Brian obviously interrupt me or or uh

6081
03:34:10,960 --> 03:34:14,319
add add anything you wish as I go. We

6082
03:34:14,319 --> 03:34:15,359
wanted to

6083
03:34:15,359 --> 03:34:17,200
>> the the only the only thing that maybe

6084
03:34:17,200 --> 03:34:19,600
popped out uh as we were just chatting

6085
03:34:19,600 --> 03:34:22,239
um is that is the this is a conservative

6086
03:34:22,239 --> 03:34:24,000
approach and so those tertiary,

6087
03:34:24,000 --> 03:34:25,760
secondary, and tertiary fiscal impacts

6088
03:34:25,760 --> 03:34:27,840
aren't reflected in the report. And it

6089
03:34:27,840 --> 03:34:29,840
might be good just to maybe mention what

6090
03:34:29,840 --> 03:34:32,319
that would look like. um what what like

6091
03:34:32,319 --> 03:34:33,840
maybe some examples of what those might

6092
03:34:33,840 --> 03:34:34,880
be.

6093
03:34:34,880 --> 03:34:37,520
>> Yeah. So I think if we just if we just

6094
03:34:37,520 --> 03:34:39,840
think geographically actually for a

6095
03:34:39,840 --> 03:34:42,960
moment, we know that a significant

6096
03:34:42,960 --> 03:34:46,000
amount of of the access points to the

6097
03:34:46,000 --> 03:34:48,720
site depend on people traversing from

6098
03:34:48,720 --> 03:34:52,399
I-15 through ORM or up um coming north

6099
03:34:52,399 --> 03:34:55,439
through Provo or even down from Hebrew

6100
03:34:55,439 --> 03:34:58,080
City for example. So as people come

6101
03:34:58,080 --> 03:35:00,160
through those corridors, we expect other

6102
03:35:00,160 --> 03:35:03,600
sales transactions to happen um within

6103
03:35:03,600 --> 03:35:06,399
those geographic areas. So right now the

6104
03:35:06,399 --> 03:35:09,279
analysis is saying what is the impact of

6105
03:35:09,279 --> 03:35:11,920
the vesper site only. It doesn't

6106
03:35:11,920 --> 03:35:14,160
consider those external transactions

6107
03:35:14,160 --> 03:35:16,239
those secondary and tertiary induced

6108
03:35:16,239 --> 03:35:18,399
demand that would happen on a lot of the

6109
03:35:18,399 --> 03:35:21,200
main thoroughares through ORM and Provo.

6110
03:35:21,200 --> 03:35:26,000
So um that is a uh a a more more of an

6111
03:35:26,000 --> 03:35:28,479
estimation procedure w with data that we

6112
03:35:28,479 --> 03:35:30,479
don't have at the moment. We could work

6113
03:35:30,479 --> 03:35:33,359
on it by collaborating with the city and

6114
03:35:33,359 --> 03:35:36,720
with the city of Oram. Um but the things

6115
03:35:36,720 --> 03:35:38,880
that go into that would be looking at

6116
03:35:38,880 --> 03:35:41,359
traffic existing traffic volumes on your

6117
03:35:41,359 --> 03:35:43,600
main on those main thorough thoroughares

6118
03:35:43,600 --> 03:35:46,000
that lead to the site and then your

6119
03:35:46,000 --> 03:35:48,399
existing point of sale economy in those

6120
03:35:48,399 --> 03:35:52,080
geographies. So I know your your finance

6121
03:35:52,080 --> 03:35:53,760
team and your economic development

6122
03:35:53,760 --> 03:35:55,760
director probably have access to this

6123
03:35:55,760 --> 03:35:59,439
data. Um you know working to summarize

6124
03:35:59,439 --> 03:36:01,680
that or or look at what would the

6125
03:36:01,680 --> 03:36:03,439
effects be. We could we could

6126
03:36:03,439 --> 03:36:05,279
collaborate with them on that front as

6127
03:36:05,279 --> 03:36:08,399
well. But as Brian said at the moment

6128
03:36:08,399 --> 03:36:11,680
this analysis just isolates the economic

6129
03:36:11,680 --> 03:36:14,399
and fiscal impacts to the actual site

6130
03:36:14,399 --> 03:36:17,120
itself. So what we're saying here when

6131
03:36:17,120 --> 03:36:20,239
we talk about sales revenues these this

6132
03:36:20,239 --> 03:36:22,479
is just the projected sales and lodging

6133
03:36:22,479 --> 03:36:24,880
revenues from the the proposed Vesper

6134
03:36:24,880 --> 03:36:27,200
site only. I just want that to be clear

6135
03:36:27,200 --> 03:36:28,880
and the same thing is true of course

6136
03:36:28,880 --> 03:36:32,080
with um property tax.

6137
03:36:32,080 --> 03:36:35,200
Um so with that uh preamble or

6138
03:36:35,200 --> 03:36:36,800
clarification

6139
03:36:36,800 --> 03:36:39,279
um we we do have a decomposition of the

6140
03:36:39,279 --> 03:36:42,479
2 on average again this is an average

6141
03:36:42,479 --> 03:36:45,920
number per year. So of course as the

6142
03:36:45,920 --> 03:36:48,319
project is absorbed there's going to be

6143
03:36:48,319 --> 03:36:51,359
increasing revenue as that happens and

6144
03:36:51,359 --> 03:36:54,560
then we have a inflation factor as well.

6145
03:36:54,560 --> 03:36:56,720
But what I wanted to do when with giving

6146
03:36:56,720 --> 03:36:59,279
you an average was just to say at about

6147
03:36:59,279 --> 03:37:02,239
the midpoint of the project life how is

6148
03:37:02,239 --> 03:37:04,960
it going and how much money is that per

6149
03:37:04,960 --> 03:37:08,560
year. So at the 2.45 45 million of new

6150
03:37:08,560 --> 03:37:11,359
revenue. Approximately 1.5 million of

6151
03:37:11,359 --> 03:37:15,120
that is from sales tax and then um

6152
03:37:15,120 --> 03:37:19,040
864,000 is from property tax. There's

6153
03:37:19,040 --> 03:37:21,760
some more nominal transient room tax

6154
03:37:21,760 --> 03:37:24,560
from the lodging on site and then we

6155
03:37:24,560 --> 03:37:26,960
expect there to be some municipal energy

6156
03:37:26,960 --> 03:37:29,439
tax as well. But you'll see from the

6157
03:37:29,439 --> 03:37:31,600
chart above that the material source of

6158
03:37:31,600 --> 03:37:35,040
revenue is the sales transactions and

6159
03:37:35,040 --> 03:37:36,960
all of the activity that's happening

6160
03:37:36,960 --> 03:37:44,880
from the amphitheater itself. Um in our report we talk about expenses and

6161
03:37:44,880 --> 03:37:46,800
we talked about the potential for the

6162
03:37:46,800 --> 03:37:50,399
city to issue licensing fees or event

6163
03:37:50,399 --> 03:37:53,760
fees. Um I I don't want to presume too

6164
03:37:53,760 --> 03:37:56,800
much in how you might undertake th those

6165
03:37:56,800 --> 03:37:59,680
your view of that, but we we did assume

6166
03:37:59,680 --> 03:38:03,120
that um a lot of the event fees would go

6167
03:38:03,120 --> 03:38:07,600
to pay for event related um costs. So

6168
03:38:07,600 --> 03:38:09,600
for example, if you're flexing your

6169
03:38:09,600 --> 03:38:11,680
police force up a little bit on an event

6170
03:38:11,680 --> 03:38:14,160
day, um that's part of the reason why

6171
03:38:14,160 --> 03:38:16,880
you have event fees available to your to

6172
03:38:16,880 --> 03:38:19,920
you to charge. So in for the purposes of

6173
03:38:19,920 --> 03:38:22,319
the analysis, we assume that those

6174
03:38:22,319 --> 03:38:26,160
effects netted themselves out, but you

6175
03:38:26,160 --> 03:38:28,160
will still have additional expense

6176
03:38:28,160 --> 03:38:30,800
increases from the addition of new

6177
03:38:30,800 --> 03:38:33,359
long-term population that we think that

6178
03:38:33,359 --> 03:38:36,160
this facility will will create. A lot of

6179
03:38:36,160 --> 03:38:38,720
that has to do with jobs. So if we go to

6180
03:38:38,720 --> 03:38:40,720
the I believe the next slide addresses

6181
03:38:40,720 --> 03:38:42,640
that.

6182
03:38:42,640 --> 03:38:44,720
So the the staffing needs of the

6183
03:38:44,720 --> 03:38:46,880
facility itself, especially when you're

6184
03:38:46,880 --> 03:38:49,200
running at full capacity

6185
03:38:49,200 --> 03:38:54,399
um is projected at 957 jobs and um Brian

6186
03:38:54,399 --> 03:38:56,479
and the Vesper team have shown you a

6187
03:38:56,479 --> 03:38:58,960
decomposition of how many full-time and

6188
03:38:58,960 --> 03:39:01,040
part-time employees that might mean and

6189
03:39:01,040 --> 03:39:04,239
then seasonal employees. Um, in addition

6190
03:39:04,239 --> 03:39:07,680
to that, we like to look at how many of

6191
03:39:07,680 --> 03:39:10,000
those new jobs are likely can c

6192
03:39:10,000 --> 03:39:12,080
candidates to become long-term Provo

6193
03:39:12,080 --> 03:39:14,720
residents. So, in order to conduct that

6194
03:39:14,720 --> 03:39:17,920
analysis, we actually use the US census.

6195
03:39:17,920 --> 03:39:19,920
And admittedly, this, you know, the US

6196
03:39:19,920 --> 03:39:24,960
census is a survey, of course, but it's among the best sources of data on

6197
03:39:24,960 --> 03:39:27,600
employment trends in your in your city.

6198
03:39:27,600 --> 03:39:29,760
So, we depended on the census for this.

6199
03:39:29,760 --> 03:39:32,640
And what we look at is the number of of

6200
03:39:32,640 --> 03:39:35,359
the number of workers in your community,

6201
03:39:35,359 --> 03:39:38,000
how many work in Provo and live in

6202
03:39:38,000 --> 03:39:40,880
Provo. And so we looked at the existing

6203
03:39:40,880 --> 03:39:43,840
trend there and then we applied it to

6204
03:39:43,840 --> 03:39:45,920
the new jobs that that are to be

6205
03:39:45,920 --> 03:39:48,960
created. So of the 957

6206
03:39:48,960 --> 03:39:52,080
new jobs, we project that about 195 of

6207
03:39:52,080 --> 03:39:55,120
those people would become long-term

6208
03:39:55,120 --> 03:39:58,399
residents. And you'll want to we you'll

6209
03:39:58,399 --> 03:40:00,239
want to maintain your level of service

6210
03:40:00,239 --> 03:40:02,720
for your residents. So we assume that

6211
03:40:02,720 --> 03:40:05,359
okay as you add new population that

6212
03:40:05,359 --> 03:40:08,319
means new expenses for the city as well.

6213
03:40:08,319 --> 03:40:11,200
And we bake that into the analysis. That

6214
03:40:11,200 --> 03:40:14,319
comes out to be anywhere from $200,000

6215
03:40:14,319 --> 03:40:18,000
to $400,000 a year depending on the

6216
03:40:18,000 --> 03:40:21,359
year. But the net impact still comes

6217
03:40:21,359 --> 03:40:25,680
down to approximately the plus 2.3.

6218
03:40:25,680 --> 03:40:28,800
um uh $2.5 million a year depending on

6219
03:40:28,800 --> 03:40:30,640
the year. So I've given average numbers

6220
03:40:30,640 --> 03:40:34,560
there, but um the full report you can

6221
03:40:34,560 --> 03:40:36,880
look at yearbyear.

6222
03:40:36,880 --> 03:40:43,520
So I think our conclusion overall if if I had to close out my five minutes um

6223
03:40:43,520 --> 03:40:46,880
Brian is that the project is a

6224
03:40:46,880 --> 03:40:48,880
significant capital investment. We think

6225
03:40:48,880 --> 03:40:51,840
it's a unique um asset that would

6226
03:40:51,840 --> 03:40:57,520
position Provo City and Utah County to capture a certain market and product

6227
03:40:57,520 --> 03:41:00,560
that it is certainly has great um

6228
03:41:00,560 --> 03:41:03,120
cultural amenities, but this would add a

6229
03:41:03,120 --> 03:41:06,000
different kind of of scale and and

6230
03:41:06,000 --> 03:41:08,080
potentially in a in a very beautiful and

6231
03:41:08,080 --> 03:41:10,640
unique environment. Of course, I'll say

6232
03:41:10,640 --> 03:41:13,359
that this the numbers you're seeing here

6233
03:41:13,359 --> 03:41:16,319
we feel are responsible, reasonable, and

6234
03:41:16,319 --> 03:41:18,640
very conservative. and the likely

6235
03:41:18,640 --> 03:41:21,520
economic impact is going to outpace what

6236
03:41:21,520 --> 03:41:23,520
you're seeing in the report and the

6237
03:41:23,520 --> 03:41:25,520
slides here because we've we've only

6238
03:41:25,520 --> 03:41:27,920
shown the direct impacts. Um, but we

6239
03:41:27,920 --> 03:41:29,840
wanted to be biased on the more

6240
03:41:29,840 --> 03:41:32,239
conservative side. So, we could say to

6241
03:41:32,239 --> 03:41:35,279
you if if the project happens, it's at

6242
03:41:35,279 --> 03:41:38,239
least as beneficial as this, but likely

6243
03:41:38,239 --> 03:41:42,469
to do better than that.

6244
03:41:42,479 --> 03:41:45,760
You just clarify 540 the cost for the

6245
03:41:45,760 --> 03:41:48,000
project includes everything else

6246
03:41:48,000 --> 03:41:51,520
structure just not 800

6247
03:41:51,520 --> 03:41:53,120
>> 800 interchange is excluded from that

6248
03:41:53,120 --> 03:41:54,560
but yeah everything else is included in

6249
03:41:54,560 --> 03:42:00,223
that number council member mccor

6250
03:42:00,233 --> 03:42:01,279
[clears throat]

6251
03:42:01,279 --> 03:42:04,080
not have gone through

6252
03:42:04,080 --> 03:42:07,359
the slides beforehand that property tax

6253
03:42:07,359 --> 03:42:09,840
number is the total property tax that's

6254
03:42:09,840 --> 03:42:12,640
school district that's Proolo City,

6255
03:42:12,640 --> 03:42:15,680
that's Utah County, that's um central

6256
03:42:15,680 --> 03:42:17,680
Utah water, right? It's all together in

6257
03:42:17,680 --> 03:42:20,560
one number. You don't have

6258
03:42:20,560 --> 03:42:24,720
>> No. So I'm I'm just I when I talk about

6259
03:42:24,720 --> 03:42:27,359
the 800,000, I believe I'm only This is

6260
03:42:27,359 --> 03:42:30,399
Provo City. So across the entire

6261
03:42:30,399 --> 03:42:33,120
property taxing complex, the school

6262
03:42:33,120 --> 03:42:36,239
district will have the most revenue, of

6263
03:42:36,239 --> 03:42:38,479
course. Um, but I believe when we're

6264
03:42:38,479 --> 03:42:40,720
looking at that 864, that's just with

6265
03:42:40,720 --> 03:42:43,439
respect to the city and that's an

6266
03:42:43,439 --> 03:42:45,520
average number to be clear.

6267
03:42:45,520 --> 03:42:47,840
>> Can you can you see my screen uh by

6268
03:42:47,840 --> 03:42:49,200
chance, Eric?

6269
03:42:49,200 --> 03:42:50,160
>> Yes.

6270
03:42:50,160 --> 03:42:51,600
>> Okay. So, sorry, I'm just scrolling

6271
03:42:51,600 --> 03:42:53,920
through the report to address council

6272
03:42:53,920 --> 03:42:56,720
member Bogdan's question. And this right

6273
03:42:56,720 --> 03:42:57,760
here,

6274
03:42:57,760 --> 03:42:59,840
>> so there's a Yeah, there's a section

6275
03:42:59,840 --> 03:43:02,239
that's called fiscal impact. And then

6276
03:43:02,239 --> 03:43:04,160
when it says new revenues across

6277
03:43:04,160 --> 03:43:07,200
entities, there's a property tax table

6278
03:43:07,200 --> 03:43:10,560
and I think it's above the sales tax

6279
03:43:10,560 --> 03:43:16,070
table. So if you just go

6280
03:43:16,080 --> 03:43:20,319
right here, this will show you the um

6281
03:43:20,319 --> 03:43:22,960
full taxing uh full property taxing

6282
03:43:22,960 --> 03:43:27,040
authority complex. And the reason why um

6283
03:43:27,040 --> 03:43:31,040
you see in in Provo City 959,

6284
03:43:31,040 --> 03:43:32,640
you know, when we were talking about the

6285
03:43:32,640 --> 03:43:34,560
800,000 number, we're talking about

6286
03:43:34,560 --> 03:43:36,640
average numbers across the life of the

6287
03:43:36,640 --> 03:43:39,520
project. And in the early phase, there's

6288
03:43:39,520 --> 03:43:41,600
no property tax cuz the improvements are

6289
03:43:41,600 --> 03:43:45,520
quite low. So in years 0 through three,

6290
03:43:45,520 --> 03:43:48,479
I think it's like hardly any new

6291
03:43:48,479 --> 03:43:51,359
assessed value is online. But then once

6292
03:43:51,359 --> 03:43:54,000
you get to year one of real revenue,

6293
03:43:54,000 --> 03:43:55,680
that number is actually a little bit

6294
03:43:55,680 --> 03:43:58,560
higher even. Um, most [clears throat] of

6295
03:43:58,560 --> 03:44:02,239
the revenue as as usual is going to the

6296
03:44:02,239 --> 03:44:04,640
school district.

6297
03:44:04,640 --> 03:44:06,000
>> And that's Can you call that number out,

6298
03:44:06,000 --> 03:44:06,960
Brian? Is 4 million.

6299
03:44:06,960 --> 03:44:07,840
>> It's that 4 million.

6300
03:44:07,840 --> 03:44:09,520
>> 4.2 million.

6301
03:44:09,520 --> 03:44:10,399
>> Yeah.

6302
03:44:10,399 --> 03:44:12,560
>> So that's the number that annually,

6303
03:44:12,560 --> 03:44:14,720
again, that's an average number, but

6304
03:44:14,720 --> 03:44:16,080
that's the number that would annually go

6305
03:44:16,080 --> 03:44:20,319
to Provo City School District. So, it's it's subst it is substantial.

6306
03:44:20,319 --> 03:44:21,359
Excuse me.

6307
03:44:21,359 --> 03:44:23,199
>> And when you scroll down one more page,

6308
03:44:23,199 --> 03:44:25,600
if you could [clears throat]

6309
03:44:25,600 --> 03:44:27,920
>> what what is your arts and zoo? We don't

6310
03:44:27,920 --> 03:44:29,920
have a zoo in Utah County. Are you

6311
03:44:29,920 --> 03:44:32,319
thinking that's our wrap tax?

6312
03:44:32,319 --> 03:44:33,760
>> That's just

6313
03:44:33,760 --> 03:44:34,560
>> Yeah. Go ahead.

6314
03:44:34,560 --> 03:44:37,199
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

6315
03:44:37,199 --> 03:44:39,520
>> That was down maybe two pages or

6316
03:44:39,520 --> 03:44:41,920
>> Yeah.

6317
03:44:41,920 --> 03:44:43,600
>> So, the mill her question is what is the

6318
03:44:43,600 --> 03:44:46,239
mill levy for this? No, no. The you're

6319
03:44:46,239 --> 03:44:48,399
saying the Utah County doesn't assess

6320
03:44:48,399 --> 03:44:50,399
the arts and zoo tax. So,

6321
03:44:50,399 --> 03:44:52,960
>> we have the rap tax.

6322
03:44:52,960 --> 03:44:54,239
>> Is that the same thing that you're

6323
03:44:54,239 --> 03:44:54,720
looking at?

6324
03:44:54,720 --> 03:44:56,880
>> It does. It it can be deployed for that

6325
03:44:56,880 --> 03:44:58,239
purpose

6326
03:44:58,239 --> 03:45:00,160
>> in the sales tax.

6327
03:45:00,160 --> 03:45:01,840
>> The sales tax table is a little bit

6328
03:45:01,840 --> 03:45:03,840
lower. Brian,

6329
03:45:03,840 --> 03:45:06,160
>> yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

6330
03:45:06,160 --> 03:45:07,600
>> Maybe. Yeah. Right there.

6331
03:45:07,600 --> 03:45:08,399
>> Yeah.

6332
03:45:08,399 --> 03:45:10,080
>> You see the arts and zoom on the bottom.

6333
03:45:10,080 --> 03:45:11,199
CZ.

6334
03:45:11,199 --> 03:45:13,359
>> Yep.

6335
03:45:13,359 --> 03:45:15,279
What were you thinking with that is my

6336
03:45:15,279 --> 03:45:17,439
question.

6337
03:45:17,439 --> 03:45:20,720
>> I'm just looking at the tax commission

6338
03:45:20,720 --> 03:45:22,800
the elected rates on the tax commission

6339
03:45:22,800 --> 03:45:26,640
site and it's indicated for uh Utah

6340
03:45:26,640 --> 03:45:28,479
County. If it gets deployed for that

6341
03:45:28,479 --> 03:45:31,760
purpose then or if it's not collected

6342
03:45:31,760 --> 03:45:33,600
that may be the case. I'm I'm going off

6343
03:45:33,600 --> 03:45:35,920
of the tax commission's table in this in

6344
03:45:35,920 --> 03:45:37,040
this instance

6345
03:45:37,040 --> 03:45:39,680
>> for Utah for Utah County Eric. Right.

6346
03:45:39,680 --> 03:45:40,319
>> Yeah.

6347
03:45:40,319 --> 03:45:43,279
>> Okay.

6348
03:45:43,279 --> 03:45:45,120
So that's for the county total is not

6349
03:45:45,120 --> 03:45:47,120
necessarily what Provo City would see

6350
03:45:47,120 --> 03:45:49,760
for a wrap tax which is recreation, arts

6351
03:45:49,760 --> 03:45:51,279
and parks.

6352
03:45:51,279 --> 03:45:54,800
>> Correct. So So the Provo City portion uh

6353
03:45:54,800 --> 03:45:57,199
council member Bogdan is that that

6354
03:45:57,199 --> 03:45:59,840
second this number right here. So this

6355
03:45:59,840 --> 03:46:02,399
is the portion that Provo City would

6356
03:46:02,399 --> 03:46:04,960
see. So the sales in use that would be

6357
03:46:04,960 --> 03:46:06,560
generated like Eric said directly on

6358
03:46:06,560 --> 03:46:08,720
site from ticket sales, concessions,

6359
03:46:08,720 --> 03:46:10,880
restaurants, hotels, all of those

6360
03:46:10,880 --> 03:46:12,160
things, that point of sales would be

6361
03:46:12,160 --> 03:46:15,040
$1.47 million that Provo would see. The

6362
03:46:15,040 --> 03:46:17,359
864 would come from the increased of

6363
03:46:17,359 --> 03:46:19,760
assessed value from what it is today uh

6364
03:46:19,760 --> 03:46:22,960
up to that 560 uhish million and then

6365
03:46:22,960 --> 03:46:24,239
there would be some additional transit

6366
03:46:24,239 --> 03:46:26,000
room tax, municipal energy tax that

6367
03:46:26,000 --> 03:46:27,920
would be collected in total which again

6368
03:46:27,920 --> 03:46:30,720
on average totals that 2.45. If you

6369
03:46:30,720 --> 03:46:33,680
subtract out the 223 uh expenses,

6370
03:46:33,680 --> 03:46:36,479
223,000, that gets you to that $2.3

6371
03:46:36,479 --> 03:46:39,600
million total of fiscal benefit to Provo

6372
03:46:39,600 --> 03:46:41,231
City.

6373
03:46:41,231 --> 03:46:41,600
[clears throat]

6374
03:46:41,600 --> 03:46:43,760
>> Thank you.

6375
03:46:43,760 --> 03:46:46,000
>> Okay, if there are no other questions,

6376
03:46:46,000 --> 03:46:48,239
we'll let Eric um we'll let Eric do his

6377
03:46:48,239 --> 03:46:49,920
thing. Eric, thanks so much for for

6378
03:46:49,920 --> 03:46:51,920
being on and and jumping on. Thank you.

6379
03:46:51,920 --> 03:46:53,760
>> Yep. Thanks for having us with you. Good

6380
03:46:53,760 --> 03:46:56,080
night. Good night.

6381
03:46:56,080 --> 03:46:59,439
>> Okay, so we'll move to a close meeting.

6382
03:46:59,439 --> 03:47:02,191
Yes. Yeah. This

6383
03:47:02,191 --> 03:47:04,160
[laughter]

6384
03:47:04,160 --> 03:47:07,279
>> Yes. We have a topic uh scheduled for

6385
03:47:07,279 --> 03:47:08,800
the council for discussion and closed

6386
03:47:08,800 --> 03:47:11,680
meeting that has to do with uh sale of

6387
03:47:11,680 --> 03:47:13,199
property and therefore it's appropriate

6388
03:47:13,199 --> 03:47:14,960
for a closed meeting for a motion at

6389
03:47:14,960 --> 03:47:17,920
this time.

6390
03:47:17,920 --> 03:47:18,560
>> I move

6391
03:47:18,560 --> 03:47:20,080
>> that we close the meeting for the

6392
03:47:20,080 --> 03:47:22,399
reasons Brian stated.

6393
03:47:22,399 --> 03:47:24,160
>> Second.

6394
03:47:24,160 --> 03:47:26,319
>> We'll have a

6395
03:47:26,319 --> 03:47:27,520
councelor.

6396
03:47:27,520 --> 03:47:29,120
>> Yes. Councelor Garrett.

6397
03:47:29,120 --> 03:47:29,600
>> Yes.

6398
03:47:29,600 --> 03:47:36,630
>> Councelor Hoben.

6399
03:47:36,640 --> 03:47:37,680
» Councelor Whipple.

6400
03:47:37,680 --> 03:47:39,600
>> Yes.

6401
03:47:39,600 --> 03:47:40,800
From Hoben.

6402
03:47:40,800 --> 03:47:41,840
>> Thank you. Councelor

6403
03:47:41,840 --> 03:47:42,399
>> Bog.

6404
03:47:42,399 --> 03:47:42,800
>> Yes.

6405
03:47:42,800 --> 03:47:43,920
>> Councel Whit.

6406
03:47:43,920 --> 03:47:44,319
>> Yes.

6407
03:47:44,319 --> 03:47:47,720
>> Councelor M.