[0:00] Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to
[0:03] council meeting number 21 for Tuesday,
[0:07] July 21, 2026.
[0:10] And I'll note that this is a a special
[0:13] open meeting of council with only one
[0:17] item on the agenda. We have some uh
[0:20] routine business to deal with uh in
[0:23] terms of um approval of the agenda, etc.
[0:26] Uh, I will mention that we've got uh
[0:29] councelor Elliot on on Zoom. Do we? Are
[0:33] you there, Councelor Ell?
[0:34] >> Yes, sir.
[0:35] » Yes, sir.
[0:35] >> Good.
[0:36] » Good.
[0:36] >> Yes, sir.
[0:37] » Yes, sir.
[0:37] >> Love it when the technology is working.
[0:39] » Love it when the technology is working.
[0:39] Thank you. Okay. So, now um I'm looking
[0:42] for a motion to um approve the agenda.
[0:46] And we also have some late items that
[0:49] have been and these are basically um
[0:51] letters that um have been submitted uh
[0:55] relative to the uh support for the
[0:57] temporary uh warming shelter at 395
[1:01] Elliott Street. So if we could get a
[1:03] motion on the floor to approve the
[1:05] agenda. Councelor McKelie, Councelor
[1:07] Rudenberg.
[1:09] Uh councelor Run, you have a question?
[1:11] >> Yes. Prior to voting on the agenda, I I
[1:13] » Yes. Prior to voting on the agenda, I I
[1:13] really would like to move uh J4
[1:17] before us making a decision.
[1:20] >> Uh
[1:26] we we are doing that.
[1:27] >> You're you're referring to gallery
[1:29] » You're you're referring to gallery
[1:29] questions. Yeah, that will happen before
[1:32] the uh it'll probably happen after the
[1:35] resolution has been placed on the table.
[1:37] I will call for that. Okay. Anyone else?
[1:42] Are we all in favor then of approving
[1:44] the agenda as discussed?
[1:47] Okay. I do have a I do have an opening
[1:49] statement that uh that I'd like to read.
[1:52] Uh before council proceeds with this
[1:54] item, I would like to acknowledge that
[1:57] this matter has generated significant
[1:59] public interest and differing viewpoints
[2:01] from within our community. We recognize
[2:05] that many residents care deeply about
[2:07] the outcome and may hold strong opinions
[2:10] on the subject. It is important to
[2:13] clarify that council's discussion is not
[2:16] a public hearing. Council's role this
[2:19] evening is to receive information, ask
[2:22] questions, deliberate, and make
[2:24] decisions as authorized under applicable
[2:28] legislation and council procedures.
[2:32] A number of submissions have been made
[2:35] and council has had the opportunity to
[2:37] review these submissions including the
[2:39] late submissions. The meeting before us
[2:42] is not structured as a public hearing
[2:44] and does not provide an opportunity for
[2:47] debate. Although there will be
[2:49] opportunity uh for questions from the
[2:52] gallery as is normally provided on our
[2:56] regular council meeting agendas.
[2:59] I ask that everyone present please
[3:01] conduct themselves respectfully. Council
[3:04] is committed to considering the
[3:06] information before us thoughtfully and
[3:09] professionally and we expect the same
[3:11] respect to be shown to council staff
[3:14] delegates and members of the public
[3:17] regardless of differing perspectives.
[3:20] Thank you for your cooperation. We will
[3:22] now proceed with the item on the agenda.
[3:29] So, I would now call on the Cornell
[3:31] Shelter and Support Society, Tammy
[3:34] Jansen, Executive Director, to to make a
[3:37] presentation.
[3:53] Hello everybody. Can I control this to
[3:56] move the slides? Just hit the over
[3:58] arrow.
[4:05] There we go. Hello everybody. Um, for
[4:08] those of you that don't know me, I'm
[4:10] Tammy Jansen, executive director for
[4:12] Cornell Shelter and Sports Society.
[4:15] Thank you for having us here tonight to
[4:17] review um and answer questions about the
[4:20] temporary winter shelter.
[4:24] So, as you can see from the first slide,
[4:26] we operated a temporary winter shelter
[4:29] from January 27th to April 27th of this
[4:33] year.
[4:36] And where is the
[4:40] go this way?
[4:43] Um, the services we provided were safe
[4:45] overnight shelter from 7:00 p.m. to 9:00
[4:48] a.m. We did open for staff to prepare at
[4:52] 6:00 p.m. Um, and allowed
[4:55] clients to come in at 700 p.m.
[4:58] Hot dinner was served nightly at 7:00
[5:01] p.m. a light breakfast each morning,
[5:03] harm reduction supplies and support,
[5:06] overdose prevention services, on-site
[5:09] support workers for case planning,
[5:11] laundry mat vouchers. As there was no
[5:13] laundry on site, we were able to partner
[5:17] with a local um laundry mat and provide
[5:21] folks with vouchers, so they had a way
[5:23] to launder.
[5:26] We had shower access at Season's house
[5:28] as there was no shower at this site
[5:31] either, but we have shower access for
[5:34] folks at Season's House if needed. We
[5:37] had clothing supplies, regular wellness
[5:40] checks, and referrals to community
[5:42] resources. So, our homelessness
[5:44] prevention program that helps house
[5:47] people out in community and market
[5:48] rentals. Um and MSDPR, Ministry of
[5:53] Social Development and Poverty
[5:54] Reduction, their outreach worker is able
[5:57] to meet with us at that site as well and
[6:00] refer people for wound care with
[6:02] Northern Health.
[6:07] Our staffing qualifications to start, we
[6:11] need our food safe, whimsis, first aid
[6:13] level one, and a BC criminal record
[6:16] check with a vulnerable sector. That is
[6:17] something that everybody needs to have
[6:23] and then we go through a lot of
[6:25] onboarding training for our staff. Um so
[6:28] required before working independently
[6:31] they complete an introduction to
[6:33] homeless sector through homelessness
[6:35] services association of BC provides that
[6:38] training.
[6:39] reducing barriers to shelter access,
[6:41] Nlloxxone administration, mental health
[6:44] first aid, domestic violence safety
[6:46] planning, trauma informed practice, harm
[6:48] reduction, professional boundaries, and
[6:51] crisis deescalation.
[6:54] ongoing professional development that we
[6:56] offer to our staff is um LGBTQ2S
[7:01] plus awareness, documentation and report
[7:04] writing, case planning, indigenous
[7:07] cultural safety, program specific
[7:09] training, and lived experience-led
[7:11] training through our community action
[7:13] team peers.
[7:18] Over that 3-month period, we had a total
[7:21] of 726
[7:23] shelter stays. That's averaging eight
[7:25] people per night. The maximum capacity
[7:28] of that site is 16. So, we had an
[7:31] average of eight people per night. 483
[7:35] male, 243 female. Out of that 726
[7:39] shelter stays, there was 80 unique
[7:42] individuals that made up that 700 those
[7:45] 726 stays. 48 male, 32 female,
[7:50] and those of who shared indigenous
[7:53] identity, 34 first nations, eight matei,
[7:56] and 29 non-indigenous.
[8:01] Here we have some quotes um from folks
[8:04] that have stayed, so saying that they've
[8:07] never slept so peaceful in my life. Um
[8:10] thank staff for opening the shelter. I
[8:12] finally feel safe at night and sleep
[8:14] good. Um, it's nice to be safe. An RCMP
[8:19] member said, "It is so nice to have
[8:21] somewhere to bring people when there is
[8:23] no room at the shelter,
[8:26] meaning season's house, because in the
[8:28] winter it is full at 25 beds." Um, and
[8:34] somebody's saying that they're glad they
[8:35] have people have a place to go out of
[8:37] the elements.
[8:42] So we've always had we always have a
[8:45] minimum of two staff on site at all
[8:47] times upwards of four to five depending
[8:50] on if a cook is there, if the manager
[8:52] happens to be there, janitor happens to
[8:54] be there. So but always a minimum of two
[8:57] people. Um Vivian Ham managed the site
[9:02] and was able to oversee and respond if
[9:05] needed.
[9:06] Uh all staff again are certified in
[9:08] first aid women's food safe nlloxxone
[9:11] and deescalation
[9:12] and our society does have a 24/7 on call
[9:16] supervisor on call
[9:22] um some of the challenges and lessons
[9:24] that we learned. So we were closed for
[9:27] one week following a violent incident.
[9:30] that incident saw a woman fleeing
[9:33] violence and fled into that space. She
[9:37] was not a guest at that shelter. She was
[9:40] not staying there. She fled there for
[9:43] stay safety. The person following her is
[9:47] the one who caused the damages and we
[9:50] had to close for a week.
[9:53] We did provide on-site security patrols
[9:56] um as somebody was stationed there from
[9:58] 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. every day. Um
[10:02] and they only reported one serious
[10:03] incident where they had to call RCMP for
[10:06] support.
[10:08] There is a lack of on-site showers
[10:11] creates barriers for those not
[10:13] comfortable accessing season's house.
[10:15] And there is no daytime space for guests
[10:17] once the shelter closed each morning.
[10:19] So, when we closed and they had to be
[10:22] out by 9:00 a.m., there was no other
[10:24] space for them to go to in community.
[10:31] Some of the community benefits,
[10:33] nighttime street presence drops as
[10:36] guests have a safe destination,
[10:39] hospital trips for frostbite,
[10:41] hypothermia, and weather related
[10:42] injuries will decline. Emergency
[10:45] services face lighter demand overall
[10:48] when people have somewhere to go. A
[10:50] staff supportive setting takes the place
[10:52] of encampments and outdoor exposure.
[10:56] Storefronts and bank vestibules see
[10:58] fewer people sheltering for warmth.
[11:01] Signals that the city stands by its most
[11:03] vulnerable residents. Community anxiety
[11:06] eases when extreme weather hits. and
[11:09] city public areas stay cleaner with
[11:11] reduced to human waste and
[11:13] paraphernalia.
[11:18] We would like to recommend to council
[11:20] that we continue this program or expand
[11:23] season's house shelter. We would like to
[11:26] do as we are today, begin planning
[11:28] earlier in the year, add on-site
[11:31] showers, storage, and outreach services
[11:33] for people, and invest in community
[11:36] education and engagement.
[11:38] And I welcome any of your questions.
[11:42] >> Okay. Uh, thank you for that. Well done.
[11:44] » Okay. Uh, thank you for that. Well done.
[11:44] And so, the floor is now open to
[11:47] questions and comments from council. So,
[11:49] I'll open it up.
[11:53] Nobody yet.
[11:55] >> Oh, councelor Runge,
[11:57] » Oh, councelor Runge,
[11:57] >> you guys. I don't always want to be
[11:59] » you guys. I don't always want to be
[11:59] first. Uh, thanks for the report. Uh,
[12:03] with regards, uh, and I think you know
[12:05] this question might come to you. It's
[12:06] with regards to continue the program or
[12:08] expand the program. What do you see as
[12:11] expanding the program?
[12:14] » And is there room I guess? So I I guess
[12:18] on that expand as in we if season's
[12:22] house is going to stay at 25 beds and
[12:24] there's no expansion like we need we
[12:26] need either a um a better dedicated
[12:30] facility with more space for people. So
[12:35] that's what I mean by expand. Um and and
[12:38] also if it the two funding modules don't
[12:44] speak to one another and I don't know
[12:46] how to um
[12:51] temporary winter shelter is only for
[12:53] night. We need somewhere for people to
[12:55] go during the day. So
[12:58] ex expand that way.
[13:04] » Okay. Anyone? Councelor Rudenberg.
[13:07] >> Thank you. Good evening. Um, so one of
[13:10] » Thank you. Good evening. Um, so one of
[13:10] your last comments here is invest in
[13:12] community education and engagement. What
[13:14] does that look like to you? I know what
[13:17] it looks like to me, but what does it
[13:18] look like to you?
[13:23] I I can say that Cornell Shelter and
[13:25] Support Society is currently investing
[13:28] in updating our website, updating modes
[13:32] of um like how do you contact us, how do
[13:36] things get brought to the table for the
[13:38] good neighbor meetings, all of those
[13:39] pieces. Um and community education. I
[13:43] think we need to be able to have these
[13:45] discussions so that all voices can be
[13:49] heard and we we're not going to address
[13:53] anything if it's this pocket over here
[13:56] and this pocket over here. We need to
[13:57] work as a community to address what's
[14:00] happening in our community.
[14:03] Um, and I I feel like if more stats were
[14:07] out there, more opportunities were out
[14:10] there for people to educate themselves
[14:12] on the reasons for homelessness. Um, how
[14:16] much housing is actually in Quinnel? Uh,
[14:19] what's the difference between supportive
[14:21] housing and emergency shelter? Those
[14:24] kind of things need community needs
[14:27] education on that. There are a lot of
[14:30] people that think that supportive
[14:31] housing you're still homeless. That's
[14:33] not the case. Um and that means that we
[14:36] need to do better at educating and and
[14:38] and engaging with community so that we
[14:41] have a proper understanding.
[14:44] So it that's a a great start, but how do
[14:48] you how do you how do you talk to
[14:51] community members who say, "But I still
[14:53] wake up with stuff in my front door or
[14:56] they put a fire at my front entrance of
[15:00] my store. How do you work with that part
[15:03] of the community who are just done, who
[15:06] don't want to hear the stats, who don't
[15:08] want to think that we need to build
[15:10] something more. So, how do you work with
[15:12] community like who have that experience,
[15:15] their own life experience with what's
[15:17] going on in their especially around some
[15:19] of our business community?
[15:23] So, first of all, I'm not about people
[15:25] who commit crimes should get away with
[15:27] crimes. That's not what I am saying
[15:29] here. Um,
[15:32] we do host a good neighbor meeting once
[15:35] a month and there are several people who
[15:37] are invited to those meetings. Cornell
[15:40] uh downtown business association, the
[15:42] West Cornell business association, other
[15:44] service providers, RCMP, bylaw, city,
[15:48] those folks are at the table. So we try
[15:50] to have those discussions at that table
[15:52] and help address what people are seeing
[15:55] in community. If it if it's not making
[15:58] it to that table, then I don't know how
[16:00] to or I don't know about it to address
[16:02] it. So So there's that, which is why
[16:05] we're working on updating our website so
[16:08] that people have a clearer path on if
[16:10] this is happening, who do you call? Is
[16:12] it bylaw? Is it RCMP? Is it our society?
[16:16] I I need it to be known that we don't
[16:18] own this population of people. I have no
[16:22] capacity
[16:24] or power to monitor someone when they
[16:28] leave season's house and commit or do
[16:31] something at the bakery. I a lot of has
[16:36] happened between now and then. However,
[16:38] if I know it's somebody in crisis, I can
[16:40] reach out to Northern Health. I can
[16:42] reach out to bylaw. I can reach out to
[16:44] Northern Health to say this person needs
[16:47] more supports. Um, we sit on several
[16:50] tables with the city, the housing
[16:52] solutions table. Um, oh, now it's it's
[16:57] the situation table that they meet
[17:00] several times and and they try to
[17:03] identify who's having issues, what's
[17:06] happening in community, and how we can
[17:08] work together as service providers to
[17:10] support these people. Um, I do
[17:13] understand that businesses are
[17:16] suffering. Um, I do understand that
[17:19] people are waking up with somebody on
[17:21] their front lawn or poop or something
[17:24] and that's not what I want. Um, I am
[17:27] born and raised in Cornell. I want a
[17:29] healthy community. We all want the same
[17:31] thing.
[17:34] >> I really appreciate that. But you can
[17:36] » I really appreciate that. But you can
[17:36] understand the um it's it's that bigger
[17:40] picture because we know there is a
[17:42] crisis when it comes to mental health.
[17:44] We know there's a crisis when it comes
[17:45] to addictions. Um that the whole
[17:48] housing, you know, attainable housing
[17:50] for everyone in the community. So,
[17:54] um they tie it all together when they
[17:56] see that person doing whatever. And
[18:00] unfortunately, it lands in your lap. and
[18:01] and you're right, you would not allow,
[18:05] you know, somebody to break the law.
[18:07] There's also the whole court system that
[18:08] we know that is not necessarily working
[18:10] for us. So,
[18:13] it's it's about you're not just talking
[18:15] about your shelter here. When you talk
[18:17] to the community, it's that bigger
[18:20] picture. And I know the you know, you
[18:23] have your meetings during the day. There
[18:25] are people who cannot make it during the
[18:27] day who would love to be there. You know
[18:29] what? you know, we need to look at
[18:31] opportunities for people to actually
[18:33] start to understand that, you know,
[18:35] having those evening meetings or, you
[18:37] know, maybe it's a pre-break meeting,
[18:40] but something that gets other members of
[18:41] the community that cannot make a 2:00
[18:44] meeting in the afternoon because they
[18:45] are busy busy trying to run their
[18:47] businesses. Um,
[18:50] it's, you know, there I have a couple
[18:52] other pieces here, you know, and you
[18:54] talk about expanding seasons house that
[18:56] opens up another whole piece, right?
[18:58] It's kind of like, so where do you think
[19:00] you're going to put it? And that and
[19:02] again, I mean, one of the questions I've
[19:05] asked people about this and they said,
[19:08] we need this in Quinnell. We understand
[19:10] that people deserve a safe, warm place
[19:13] to be able to put their head at night.
[19:15] And then the the next question is, so
[19:17] where do you think we should put it? And
[19:19] their hands go up in the air. Go, well,
[19:21] no, no, as long as it's not in my
[19:22] backyard. And we know that that that
[19:24] exists out there. They know we need it,
[19:26] but where do you put it? Um,
[19:31] I think I've said enough for now. Thank
[19:32] you.
[19:34] >> Can I speak?
[19:37] » Can I speak?
[19:37] >> I I I hear what you're saying,
[19:39] » I I I hear what you're saying,
[19:39] Laurianne, and I just I I
[19:45] to put
[19:46] all of that on a nonprofit
[19:50] to organize.
[19:52] I think, like I said earlier, I could I
[19:55] could put it to council as well. What
[19:58] community engagement are you doing to
[20:00] help solve these issues that we're
[20:01] seeing in our community? What meetings
[20:04] are you having to allow community to
[20:06] come forward? Um,
[20:11] I I I would like council to think about
[20:14] that as well.
[20:18] >> Okay. Thank you for that. Before I go to
[20:20] » Okay. Thank you for that. Before I go to
[20:20] uh Councelor McKelie, I do have a
[20:22] question for you. I've always been
[20:24] confounded with acronyms and
[20:27] particularly given my military
[20:29] background and so I've got to ask you,
[20:32] what is MSDPR?
[20:37] » Ministry of Social Development and
[20:38] Poverty Reduction.
[20:40] >> I should have known that. Thank you,
[20:43] » I should have known that. Thank you,
[20:43] Councelor McCelie.
[20:46] >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And thank you
[20:47] » Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And thank you
[20:47] Tammy for the report. I'm going to hold
[20:50] off on my comments until we hear from BC
[20:53] Housing. And are we voting after we hear
[20:56] from BC Housing?
[20:57] >> Yes.
[20:58] » Yes.
[20:58] >> Wonderful. Thank you again,
[21:00] » Wonderful. Thank you again,
[21:00] >> Councelor Boule.
[21:03] » Councelor Boule.
[21:03] >> Uh thanks for the report, Fam. Thank you
[21:05] » Uh thanks for the report, Fam. Thank you
[21:06] very much. Uh very informative to echo
[21:09] some of Councelor Rutenberg's points.
[21:11] You know, we have to find a solution
[21:13] here that works for all of us and the
[21:16] community. And I have written down in my
[21:18] notes communication. I think we need to
[21:20] devise something that we are together on
[21:22] the same page because that seems to be
[21:24] where sometimes the problems um do
[21:27] occur. Pieces are part of the
[21:29] responsibility of a municipality. Other
[21:31] pieces are part of you as a nonprofit
[21:33] organization. So sometime we have to
[21:35] balance those those pieces. I had a
[21:38] couple of questions on your report. You
[21:40] had 80 unusual people. What's unusual
[21:44] people? Are they just random people that
[21:46] attended your uh or attended the shelter
[21:49] when it was open or I just never used
[21:51] that before. I'm like unusual.
[21:53] Unless I'm reading it wrong on that.
[21:54] >> It said 80 unique.
[21:56] » It said 80 unique.
[21:56] >> Unique. Okay.
[21:57] » Unique. Okay.
[21:58] >> What's unique people?
[21:59] » What's unique people?
[21:59] >> Unique. One person unique to themselves.
[22:02] » Unique. One person unique to themselves.
[22:02] >> Oh, okay. Okay. Perfect. Just for
[22:04] » Oh, okay. Okay. Perfect. Just for
[22:04] clarity. And my other question, sorry,
[22:06] and maybe I I misread that, but my other
[22:08] question for you too is you have in your
[22:10] report too that um when you close down
[22:12] the temporary shelter and there's no
[22:15] place for them to go after they're
[22:17] outside the shelter, you don't you don't
[22:19] keep any stats on where do they go? Like
[22:21] they're just out of the shelter and they
[22:22] could just walk down the street or they
[22:24] could go to a different service
[22:25] provider. Is there any stats that we
[22:28] could say, hey, send them to another
[22:30] organization? And again, that's coming
[22:31] back to my communication piece and how
[22:33] we do this as a community, right? So,
[22:37] >> so that would go with the cold weather
[22:39] » so that would go with the cold weather
[22:39] planning that we worked on with the
[22:41] municipality
[22:43] um to identify a warming station space
[22:47] available in community. Um
[22:51] so I we don't know where I mean there
[22:55] can they drop in at the friendship
[22:57] center, can they go to the library? Can
[22:59] they There's There's
[23:01] We've tried to say you could go to West
[23:04] Fraser Center to stay warm, but that's
[23:06] not an an ideal situation either, right?
[23:09] Like, but the right now my hands are
[23:12] tied except for it's 9:00 a.m. You got
[23:15] to go. Sorry about your luck. See you at
[23:17] 700 p.m. tonight.
[23:22] » Okay. No one Oh, councelor Rudenberg,
[23:24] sorry.
[23:24] >> Go ahead.
[23:25] » Go ahead.
[23:25] >> Sorry. Um you did uh make comment here
[23:28] » Sorry. Um you did uh make comment here
[23:28] about uh referrals to community
[23:30] services, right? Do you know how many of
[23:33] your uh clients access those services or
[23:39] that maybe were successful?
[23:41] >> I I would have to look more into that.
[23:44] » I I would have to look more into that.
[23:44] But our we have an ongoing relationship
[23:47] with MSDPR's Ministry of Social
[23:50] Development Community Integration
[23:52] Specialist. Um, she's at our sites quite
[23:55] often. So, I mean, like I I don't I
[24:00] >> I guess this success would look like
[24:02] » I guess this success would look like
[24:02] they don't return to the to the shelter.
[24:05] >> Oh, yes. Yes. Um, but then we're on to a
[24:09] » Oh, yes. Yes. Um, but then we're on to a
[24:10] whole other housing crisis and
[24:12] affordable housing.
[24:16] » Okay. Thank you. Oh, Councelor Vic, go
[24:18] ahead.
[24:20] >> Thank you. Hey, Tammy. So, I'm going I'm
[24:23] » Thank you. Hey, Tammy. So, I'm going I'm
[24:23] going to push you a little bit on
[24:24] something and this is just hopefully
[24:27] there there could be some dialogue on
[24:30] something you spoke about you when a
[24:33] resident or someone using your services
[24:35] at season's house or at at uh uh at the
[24:39] other facility when they leave your
[24:41] doorstep they
[24:44] really your responsibility
[24:46] that ends. You can't be responsible for
[24:48] the behaviors of every citizen who walks
[24:52] along the sideway. So, I'm going to push
[24:54] you a little bit on that. If you know
[24:56] you have some clients that are um
[24:59] troubled or have a predisposition to
[25:03] perhaps cause a problem, can you not
[25:06] develop policies where you work with
[25:08] these individuals when you know they're
[25:10] coming outside your premise? So there so
[25:13] it it avoids the the languishing on the
[25:16] sidewalks or trespassing on other
[25:19] businesses property. Can you not can we
[25:22] not meet you halfway there where you
[25:24] engage with your clients and express you
[25:28] know the rules of the road so to speak
[25:30] when you leave your premise and what the
[25:32] expectations of society are when they
[25:34] leave. Is that possible? Is there some
[25:37] kind of compromise there?
[25:42] We do have those conversations. We try
[25:45] to have those conversations. We contact
[25:48] Northern Health Mental Health. We
[25:50] contact bylaw. We contact RCMP. When we
[25:54] know that there's somebody in our commu
[25:56] community who is not doing well, we try
[25:59] to get them the support and services
[26:02] that they need. Um, we do have those
[26:05] discussions about wanting to be good
[26:07] neighbors, about cleaning up after
[26:09] ourselves. We We do try to have those
[26:12] conversations. I I really assure you we
[26:15] do have those conversations.
[26:18] >> I appreciate that and I'm sure
[26:21] » I appreciate that and I'm sure
[26:21] people listening to you right now
[26:22] appreciate you saying that. But you
[26:24] understand this is where a lot of
[26:25] friction comes with operating a homeless
[26:28] shelter in our community. It's it's not
[26:30] often what happens within your doors
[26:32] that concerns community members at
[26:35] large. It happens when those
[26:37] individuals, and it's probably a select
[26:40] few, but when those individuals come out
[26:42] of your premise and cause havoc or uh uh
[26:47] issues, you know. So, I hope yeah, maybe
[26:51] this is a this is a dialogue beyond this
[26:54] decision tonight, but we definitely
[26:57] would look forward to talking with you
[26:59] more on how we can help with that
[27:02] behavior. For sure.
[27:05] >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Vic. Anyone
[27:07] » Okay. Thank you, Councelor Vic. Anyone
[27:07] else?
[27:10] Okay. Uh before I go to the next um
[27:13] delegation which is BC housing and this
[27:16] is for the benefit of those in the
[27:19] public gallery. Uh at the end of every
[27:23] council meeting um we have a a question
[27:26] period from from the gallery and it and
[27:29] it is for excuse me questions and not
[27:32] editorializing and not commenting. It is
[27:35] for questions. I'm going to read that to
[27:38] you because that opportunity,
[27:42] excuse me, to ask questions will come up
[27:45] before the decision is made. Usually at
[27:48] council meet, not usually um at council
[27:52] meetings, the opportunity for gallery
[27:54] questions comes at the end of the
[27:56] meeting after all of the business has
[27:59] been completed. In this case, I'm going
[28:03] to ask for council or pardon me for
[28:05] gallery questions before the decision is
[28:09] made. So that if there's anything in
[28:12] your line of questioning that might help
[28:15] council uh to make their decision, then
[28:18] um you're going to help us with that. So
[28:21] I'm going to read gallery questions. All
[28:23] gallery questions are to be addressed to
[28:26] the chair of the council meeting, that's
[28:28] myself, and must be an explicit question
[28:32] about a specific business item that is
[28:34] on the council agenda. The gallery
[28:37] member must have heard the entire
[28:39] council dialogue of that particular
[28:41] council agenda item that the question is
[28:45] being asked of. and gallery question
[28:48] period is not an opportunity to bait to
[28:51] debate with council or raise issues or
[28:54] concerns with council that does not
[28:57] explicitly form part of the business
[28:59] item contained in the council agenda. So
[29:03] in other words, I'm going to be watching
[29:05] very closely that uh that we stay
[29:08] focused and don't wander off into the
[29:10] weeds. Okay. So with that, I would like
[29:13] to now call um operations uh manager for
[29:19] planning for pardon me a nonprofit
[29:22] portfolio manager north for Ministry of
[29:25] BC Housing uh David Sheets.
[29:30] The floor is yours.
[29:53] Good evening, council. Thank you very
[29:54] much for having me and I look forward to
[29:56] this conversation with you tonight and
[29:58] ongoing.
[30:00] My name is David Shia. I'm the nonprofit
[30:02] portfolio manager for BC Housing. Uh my
[30:06] office is based in Prince George.
[30:11] I want to acknowledge that we're
[30:13] speaking with you and working with you
[30:15] from the traditional unseated
[30:17] territories of the Estella Lako Da
[30:19] Luscus D and the Nazco First Nations.
[30:25] We tried to put our presentation
[30:27] together in three parts thinking about
[30:29] the questions that we had last month um
[30:31] and trying to be thorough in the in um
[30:34] in the discussion with you. So we we
[30:36] we're going to talk a bit about BC
[30:38] Housing's mandate and our role. We're
[30:41] going to talk about the current state of
[30:42] shelters services in Quinnel and we're
[30:45] going to talk about the future state or
[30:47] the future opportunities for shelter
[30:49] services in Quinnell.
[30:52] BC Housing develops and manages and
[30:54] administers a range of social housing
[30:56] programs across the province.
[30:59] We work with people at all levels,
[31:02] people at risk, be they homeless and
[31:04] unhoused or be they elderly. And we work
[31:07] with individuals and families to provide
[31:09] affordable housing specifically for
[31:11] people that can't afford the trai
[31:13] traditional market housing. And we try
[31:15] to work within the context of the
[31:17] community that we are in. Equally, we
[31:20] provide housing services and support
[31:22] services for women fleeing abuse and in
[31:24] transition.
[31:27] I showed this slide to you before. This
[31:30] is our sort of spectrum of of what we
[31:32] do. So the the on the far left side is
[31:35] with lowincome unhoused people. It
[31:37] provides shelters, provides supportive
[31:39] housing and in some respects you can see
[31:42] that side for people elderly people in
[31:45] assisted living. in the center. It's for
[31:48] people who are able to maintain a
[31:50] tendency, people that are liable to be
[31:53] low income but still well enough to live
[31:55] independently without supports. And as
[31:58] you move further to the right of the of
[31:59] the spectrum, it's for people who are
[32:02] regular working families who work
[32:04] low-income jobs in your community. And
[32:07] in some cases, we able to provide
[32:08] housing to help um families to get into
[32:11] home ownership.
[32:18] So the current situation in Quinnal as
[32:20] we understand it based on the point in
[32:22] time count that was last done in 2025
[32:25] there were 131 people identified as
[32:27] living um outside. That was a 3%
[32:30] increase from the previous year or
[32:32] previous count in 2023.
[32:35] And we're proposing or we're discussing
[32:37] a temporary winter shelter um as a way
[32:40] to respond to the needs of some of that
[32:42] population.
[32:45] particularly during the the extreme
[32:48] seasons that we have and winter
[32:50] primarily.
[32:52] As as as we've mentioned, there's 25
[32:54] shelter beds, permanent shelter beds at
[32:57] Carson Street at Season's House. Um, and
[33:00] up on the upper floor, there are 10
[33:02] transitional housing units. Those are
[33:04] essentially permanent housing for people
[33:07] who are able to live independently. Um,
[33:12] and
[33:14] I guess the specific to that building
[33:16] that as you probably know that building
[33:18] is old. It's heavily used and it's in
[33:21] very poor condition. And it's when we
[33:23] talk about that other element around the
[33:26] future conversation around shelters.
[33:28] That's one of the factors is the age and
[33:30] state and location of that property
[33:33] and the capacity.
[33:35] and that property is owned by BC
[33:37] Housing.
[33:41] We took some time since the last meeting
[33:42] to review the the the um the December
[33:46] meeting and the conversation or the
[33:48] points that were raised in that December
[33:50] meeting. And so I'm going to try and
[33:51] speak to some of those in the upcoming
[33:53] slides.
[33:56] So a temporary winter shelter addresses
[33:58] the urgent need for additional shelter
[34:00] units in extreme weather and in
[34:02] particularly in cold weather. A shelter,
[34:04] a temporary shelter provides a safe,
[34:06] warm place to stay during the winter
[34:08] months. Um, it provides critical or
[34:10] life-saving um, spaces for people to be.
[34:14] Um, and in doing that prevents strain on
[34:17] other services, health and hospital and
[34:20] police specifically.
[34:22] In those programs, we provide food, some
[34:25] meals, some some one-on-one supports,
[34:28] some relationship building, some counsel
[34:31] and advice um and referrals. The program
[34:34] is open nightly and in many cases the
[34:37] program is open 24/7
[34:39] and typically they operate between
[34:41] October and April.
[34:46] As Tammy mentioned, there were 80
[34:49] individuals who used the shelter in the
[34:51] period that we operated from February to
[34:53] April this year. Those 80 people used
[34:56] the pillow 7286
[34:59] times
[35:00] and the average was eight guests in the
[35:03] night.
[35:08] The program provides two meals a day. So
[35:10] we provide people a a a dinner meal when
[35:13] they come in in the evening and a
[35:15] breakfast when they leave in the morning
[35:16] before they leave in the morning. We
[35:18] provide harm reduction supports be that
[35:21] um supplies supports, referrals um and
[35:24] assistance or referrals with other um
[35:26] health related issues. We also provide
[35:29] hygiene and and personal care like
[35:31] laundry, um showers, um and and
[35:35] sometimes clothing and other essential
[35:36] service supplies. And also provide those
[35:40] those one-on-one check-ins for wellness
[35:42] supports and and case planning where we
[35:44] can or where people are wanting to take
[35:46] those services.
[35:49] During this year, we experienced some
[35:51] challenges.
[35:52] Um the the largest inc was an incident
[35:55] that Tammy talked about where there was
[35:57] a a violent character arrived at the
[36:00] building unexpectedly caused some damage
[36:03] um caused some threats um involved the
[36:06] police and um and ultimately we closed
[36:09] the property for about a week at that
[36:11] time and from that point forward
[36:14] Northern Health opted to relocate their
[36:16] services.
[36:18] There was another incident as well
[36:20] around a loitering that was relatively
[36:22] easy to um to resolve.
[36:26] And one of the challenges of course is
[36:28] again as Tammy mentioned is you know the
[36:30] the the building has basic facilities,
[36:32] bathrooms and a kitchen. It doesn't have
[36:34] a shower. It doesn't really have laundry
[36:36] services. It would be more ideal if
[36:38] those were available on site
[36:42] and it and and again the program was
[36:45] closed in the mornings and it would
[36:46] probably be more ideal if there was a
[36:48] place for people to stay in the daytime
[36:50] too.
[36:51] We provided security throughout the term
[36:54] of the program. Northern Health had
[36:56] security on while they were in the
[36:58] building. After they left the building,
[37:01] we had the program operating in the
[37:03] nighttime and we had security on in the
[37:05] daytime. And from after when the program
[37:08] concluded, we've had security patrols um
[37:12] two in the daytime and two in the night
[37:13] time since.
[37:18] So the terms of the future planning, I
[37:20] think there's kind of two levels. One,
[37:22] we're we're here to request a um
[37:26] continuation of the temporary use permit
[37:28] so that we can provide these overnight
[37:30] services at this location. Um and
[37:34] secondarily to um to pursue a
[37:38] conversation with you and with the
[37:40] broader community about what shelter
[37:42] services are needed and what would look
[37:44] good in our community or in this
[37:46] community and that would include the
[37:48] kinds of services that should be
[37:49] available and it would include
[37:51] conversations about location and um and
[37:54] whatever partnerships might go along
[37:56] with that. The second or the other
[37:58] element of that is, you know, we we want
[38:00] to be able to support the city as much
[38:03] as we can with respect to your cold
[38:05] weather and warm weather um daytime
[38:08] services as well that are funded through
[38:09] emergency management. Um um or sorry,
[38:14] and I forget their name, EMCR.
[38:19] And then this last slide is just a bit
[38:21] of a diagram about what we think some of
[38:22] that dialogue would look like. um that
[38:26] that and the upper half of that is, you
[38:28] know, if if we're successful with you
[38:30] tonight, then we will begin to um
[38:34] prepare to open that property in
[38:36] October. Um that we'll operate it
[38:38] through to April. Um and that um um and
[38:44] and and then with respect to your
[38:46] programming, your cold weather service
[38:48] programming, we're we're wanting to
[38:50] offer access to that space for when
[38:53] you're using that when you're running
[38:55] your program in in the coldest weather
[38:57] periods. And at the same time, um, we're
[39:00] wanting to, we understand that, uh,
[39:03] later in the agenda, staff are bringing
[39:05] forward a conversation about
[39:07] coordinating a shelter conversation, and
[39:09] we want to be involved in that, and we
[39:10] want to work with you about how, um, you
[39:13] can provide or how we can have services
[39:16] for people in your community.
[39:20] And thank you for having me here.
[39:23] >> Okay. Thank you for that. Going to
[39:25] » Okay. Thank you for that. Going to
[39:25] council for questions, comments.
[39:27] Councelor McKelby,
[39:30] away you go.
[39:31] >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[39:34] » Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[39:34] And thank you, Tammy and David. Um,
[39:38] I put some thoughts down, and you know,
[39:40] they're probably not going to sit very
[39:42] well with some of you. Um,
[39:46] first of all, I'd like to say I have
[39:47] profound admiration and gratitude for a
[39:51] Cornell Shelter and Support Society and
[39:54] the work that you all do.
[39:56] I have toured all the facilities under
[39:59] this umbrella. The Grace in season's
[40:01] house and bridges supportive housing.
[40:03] The work you do is often thankless,
[40:06] extremely difficult and it is endless.
[40:10] I know you are struggling.
[40:14] I have had people contact me personally
[40:16] that work with with uh the folks that
[40:19] you do and they are
[40:22] expressing their concerns with the state
[40:23] of our concern with the state of our
[40:26] community and their personal safety.
[40:28] Citizens are calling me with their
[40:30] apprehensions and anxieties with the
[40:33] condition of our community.
[40:37] I feel like Cornell has stepped up in a
[40:39] big way over the years to support our
[40:41] vulnerable and marginalized community.
[40:43] Sadly, the upshot as in other
[40:45] communities as we are losing this
[40:46] complex battle daily unlike anything
[40:49] we've seen
[40:51] and quite frankly don't want to see an
[40:53] experience.
[40:55] Our community is being overrun with
[40:57] blatant in-your-face drug addiction and
[40:59] crime. I can go on and on with examples,
[41:02] but we can all see with our own eyes
[41:04] what we are dealing with.
[41:07] I don't believe that 39 Elliot 395
[41:10] Elliot Street is an ideal location at
[41:13] this time.
[41:17] Our local resources are completely
[41:19] tapped. Ambulance, firefighters, police
[41:22] funding, volunteers, the burnout.
[41:25] Can we honestly propose another facility
[41:28] when we are in a crisis already?
[41:32] We will attract more of the same issues
[41:34] if we go ahead with this in my opinion.
[41:37] As a council elected to serve the entire
[41:40] community, we have to know when enough
[41:43] is enough. All of our citizens deserve
[41:45] to feel safe, secure, and protected. And
[41:48] they do not. Our businesses are losing
[41:51] the battle every single day.
[41:56] How do people living in the neighborhood
[41:58] feel about another shelter facility so
[42:01] close to where their children attend
[42:02] school?
[42:04] That's a big concern of mine.
[42:08] How safe do they feel? How do the people
[42:10] in the neighborhood feel safe at night?
[42:12] I've seen letters where they're, you
[42:14] know, getting banged on their doors at
[42:17] midnight or even later than that and
[42:19] it's quite terrifying.
[42:22] Anyway, I know from some of the letters
[42:24] I've seen that this is a reality and it
[42:26] must be addressed. After the agonizing
[42:30] consideration,
[42:32] going through all the going through
[42:34] everything, I honestly can't support
[42:37] this temporary use permit. That's that's
[42:39] my feeling. Thank you.
[42:42] >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor McCelie.
[42:44] » Okay. Thank you, Councelor McCelie.
[42:44] Anyone else?
[42:47] Okay. So, Councelor Rudenberg,
[42:52] >> um,
[42:56] so you have on here quite an extensive,
[43:00] uh, community engagement timeline from
[43:03] September through to January on um, I
[43:07] guess it's the second to last slide.
[43:10] Um,
[43:12] what what does that mean? because we've,
[43:15] you know, we've we've got this happening
[43:18] here. Um Tammy has talked about how
[43:21] they're trying to improve their
[43:22] community engagement. So, you have this
[43:25] happening from September through to
[43:28] January basically on not only the cold
[43:31] weather plan, but also future shelter
[43:33] and on the um the TWWS piece. Um,
[43:42] you know, in regards to what my
[43:44] colleague has just said, how again, how
[43:48] can you convince the community that
[43:50] they're going to be safe? I know it's
[43:53] not necessarily people who are all part
[43:56] of the shelter family,
[43:59] but our community does not feel safe.
[44:03] Um, and you know, the cost to our
[44:06] communities, not only our our members
[44:08] feeling unsafe, but I think about um,
[44:11] you know, every time an ambulance has to
[44:13] go out, every time police have to go out
[44:15] to attend to an event, um, fire
[44:18] department, um, what does it cause the
[44:21] school district to clean up
[44:22] paraphernalia that's left in their
[44:24] yards? And I'm specifically talking
[44:26] about the school right next to um, um,
[44:28] Riverview. Um, so we have to absorb
[44:33] those costs as a local government,
[44:35] school district. They're absorbing those
[44:37] costs. How do we how do we sell this to
[44:41] the community so that they understand?
[44:43] Well, so that they know that they can
[44:45] feel safe and work to make sure that
[44:49] some of the issues that we've seen in
[44:50] these letters are not happening.
[44:54] I know it's a big it's a broad question,
[44:56] but it's out there. Like people want to
[44:58] feel safe and they don't right now. When
[45:00] people are banging on the doors at 3:00
[45:02] in the morning or when they see an
[45:04] uptick in drug paraphernalia happening
[45:07] once this uh temporary winter shelter
[45:09] opened, how do you make them how do you
[45:12] help them understand or how do you help
[45:15] this program
[45:17] to make our community feel safe?
[45:20] >> I think there's five levels of
[45:22] » I think there's five levels of
[45:22] government probably that are in this
[45:24] conversation. the city, BC housing, the
[45:27] health authority, the school district,
[45:29] the police come to mind. I think all of
[45:32] us have some responsibility in that. And
[45:35] I I read wrote some of this with the
[45:38] recognition of what I read in your
[45:40] agenda and what I understand your CEO
[45:42] has written about the city leading a
[45:44] conversation around shelter services.
[45:47] I've been hearing from your community in
[45:49] lots of different ways and lots of times
[45:52] about dis dissatisfaction with the
[45:54] shelter program that exists now,
[45:56] including its location. And I can tell
[45:59] by looking at it and I've been on the
[46:01] inside of it as well. And I've been
[46:03] saying to you too that it's overloaded.
[46:05] It's over full and it's not ideal. And
[46:08] we need to put it into a different
[46:09] location. The people that we're talking
[46:11] about live in your community. They're
[46:13] they're here. They've been here. They're
[46:15] going to be here. Whether we have this
[46:17] temporary shelter or not, I've never
[46:19] come to you and said that I think this
[46:21] is the best location. What I've said is
[46:24] that this is a property that we own and
[46:26] that we can use, that we can invest in,
[46:29] and that is currently um compliant with
[46:33] the building code. I've been standing on
[46:36] the street corners with Tammy and Tanya
[46:38] for 3 years, and we have not been able
[46:40] to identify another building that meets
[46:42] that ex that meets those basics. After
[46:45] that, I'm willing to sit with you
[46:48] throughout the conversation that you're
[46:51] going to lead as I understand it and to
[46:54] and to engage that conversation with you
[46:57] to listen to you. On a personal level, I
[47:00] don't know how I would deal with that
[47:01] myself. On a professional level, I've
[47:04] been working in the community social
[47:05] sector for 35 years. I don't know if
[47:08] I've done the right thing because I only
[47:10] see the problem getting worse as do you.
[47:12] I don't know how to solve it. What I
[47:15] know is that if we provide these kinds
[47:17] of services, we save something like 50
[47:20] or $60,000 per year in the tax on tax
[47:25] meaning use by the health and police
[47:27] services. That by doing this kind of
[47:29] thing, we're reducing the um emergency
[47:33] response and we're able to at least
[47:35] manage the response for some of those
[47:37] people. I would be happy to run this
[47:39] program 24/7 if I could and I might be
[47:42] able to, but funding is a challenge. We
[47:44] didn't propose to do that last year
[47:46] because the ops was there. That would
[47:48] reduce some of that. I don't know how to
[47:51] speak to people's behaviors when they
[47:53] leave the property. I think, you know,
[47:55] to the conversation that you had with
[47:56] Tammy earlier, we're dealing with human
[47:59] beings that have severe mental health
[48:00] issues. We're dealing with human beings
[48:02] that feel fundamentally isolated from
[48:05] community. They don't feel like they
[48:06] belong and so they don't care. And I I
[48:09] don't know what to do. That's not the
[48:10] way I raised my children. That's not the
[48:12] way my ch my parents raised me. That's
[48:14] not the way you are talking. But that's
[48:16] the human beings that we're dealing
[48:18] with. I don't think any of us have an
[48:20] answer to that. I think what we see is
[48:23] severe addiction and severe mental
[48:26] health problems. And none of us have the
[48:28] resources to do it. All five of our
[48:31] government agencies have a mandate, a
[48:33] circle, and we work our brains out to
[48:36] fill that circle. But we none of us have
[48:39] the resources or even the mandate to
[48:42] look at the diamond between us and how
[48:44] it is that we can meet those needs. I
[48:47] have deep respect for the problems that
[48:48] the school district has. I'm happy to
[48:51] engage in every way that I can, but I
[48:54] don't have that mandate. My mandate is
[48:56] shelter. My mandate is housing. I don't
[48:59] I'm dealing with people with severe
[49:01] mental health problems, severe addiction
[49:03] problems, criminal behaviors all the
[49:05] time. But my mandate is shelter and
[49:09] that's all I can bring to you along with
[49:12] my commitment to engage with you and the
[49:15] rest of your community to provide try
[49:17] and provide a solid service in a proper
[49:20] location. I've cast my brain around this
[49:23] town and I can't think of any
[49:24] neighborhood or any corner that's going
[49:26] to be ideal. I don't know what to say.
[49:30] >> So I I appreciate I can hear the passion
[49:33] » So I I appreciate I can hear the passion
[49:33] in your voice. You've been in the in in
[49:35] social services for x number of years.
[49:38] Um and you talk about your mandate and I
[49:40] think therein lies some of the problem
[49:43] that there is no latitude allowed when
[49:46] you come to a community to be able to do
[49:49] to be able to make it that big
[49:51] encompassing picture to be able to talk
[49:54] to the school district. you should be
[49:56] allowed to do that because the decisions
[49:58] that get made through BC Housing affects
[50:02] those pieces of the community. So,
[50:05] that's not something we're going to
[50:06] solve here right now. I know that, but
[50:08] that it's that siloed mandate piece that
[50:11] drives me bonkers when they say, "Well,
[50:14] no, you know, we can't talk we can't
[50:15] talk with these guys because that's not
[50:17] what we're supposed to be doing." Um,
[50:20] and it's kind of like the whole, you
[50:22] know, where are we going to find the
[50:23] next place for the shelter? Well, you
[50:26] know, well, because this is what we need
[50:28] and we've always done it this way, so
[50:29] we're not going to be able to think
[50:30] outside the box. They don't allow us to
[50:32] think outside of the box because this is
[50:34] just the way we've always done it. And
[50:36] I've heard this when I've talked about
[50:38] opportunities for other um areas where
[50:42] say a shelter with a continuum piece
[50:45] could be built. Like I keep thinking, oh
[50:48] well, we have an old mall that needs to
[50:49] be ripped down. there's an opportunity
[50:51] to provide so many different levels of
[50:53] housing plus anyway, but it's outside
[50:57] the downtown core where all the services
[50:59] are provided.
[51:01] But there's got to be a way of figuring
[51:03] those kinds of pieces out. We've got to
[51:05] break the mold of well, we can't do it
[51:07] because everything is here because what
[51:10] we're seeing happening, especially in
[51:11] the west side of Quinnell, is everything
[51:14] is starting to be built up over on the
[51:15] west side. And that in itself is
[51:17] concerning. um people don't want to
[51:19] invest in housing over there or they
[51:21] have housing and they don't invest to
[51:24] make them better because of issues that
[51:28] happen. So it you're right I don't have
[51:31] the answer for this but it makes it
[51:34] really hard to make um decisions on
[51:37] pieces like this when we know about that
[51:39] bigger picture. I think if I could,
[51:44] you're asking me what I'm going to do
[51:46] and I'm saying what are you going to do
[51:49] and I don't mean to be playing that game
[51:51] with you, but to your point, I think you
[51:54] have the the latitude to be able to lead
[51:56] us in that place and I'm looking to the
[52:00] city for guidance and leadership into
[52:03] that conversation because you do have
[52:05] more breadth and flexibility than I do
[52:08] and you have the ability to bring the
[52:10] rest of us together in that
[52:11] conversation.
[52:15] » Okay,
[52:17] thank you for that and and really uh
[52:19] thank you for the the last three
[52:21] speakers for your for your candandor. It
[52:24] it's it's tough but uh it's good to sort
[52:27] of get that on the table. Uh are there
[52:30] any more councelor Runge?
[52:33] I think just as a general point also
[52:35] there there actually are more than five
[52:36] governments involved here because we
[52:38] somehow have to move this issue because
[52:40] it's not a Cornell issue. It's not a
[52:41] Vancouver issue. It's a Canada possibly
[52:43] North America possibly world issue. We
[52:46] have abilities at our ports with more
[52:49] RCMP presence that the federal
[52:51] government should also be involved. I I
[52:53] you know I appreciate all these things
[52:55] that are happening. For me, it's just
[52:56] from a Cornell perspective, we have
[53:00] different
[53:02] places in the process of being built.
[53:04] Grace in partially built, not done. This
[53:07] temporary shelter, which personally I
[53:09] see in the future not being a temporary
[53:11] shelter, but sliding into just possibly
[53:14] just another shelter. And that makes it
[53:17] difficult, I think, for us to to say,
[53:19] "Hey, this sounds great." It's not and
[53:21] it's not to belittle the seriousness of
[53:23] any of these issues because they're
[53:25] there, but it's about I think going to
[53:28] uh councelor Rudenberg's point about us
[53:30] looking at this
[53:32] possibly a little slower and saying,
[53:34] "Hey, this isn't working right now. Is
[53:37] there another way and coming through it,
[53:39] you know, back at it again?" And it, you
[53:41] know, I guess that's where our
[53:42] discussion here is really difficult with
[53:44] this because for me a TUP puts red flags
[53:48] all over the place, you know, and it's
[53:49] not the people in the shelter
[53:51] necessarily. It could be those kids
[53:52] coming on the bikes delivering things to
[53:54] them. It could be what happens
[53:56] afterwards outside the shelter when we
[53:58] don't have the ability to say, "Hey, you
[54:00] know what? The things that our tourists
[54:02] see, that our citizens see every day. We
[54:05] could see it most likely now if we drove
[54:06] down the street." and and those are the
[54:08] issues that as a council I think we
[54:11] really start to struggle with here.
[54:13] >> I appreciate your struggle and I think
[54:15] » I appreciate your struggle and I think
[54:15] we're going to see them whether you
[54:16] approve it or not and and I can see the
[54:19] vision that you just conveyed as well.
[54:21] It's not what I'm asking for. What I'm
[54:23] asking for is an opportunity to run this
[54:26] program now to respond to the problem
[54:28] that we see now and to work with you
[54:30] over the next three years to come up
[54:33] with the right thing in the right place
[54:35] as best we can here.
[54:38] Yeah, and I appreciate that. Like I
[54:41] share that concern for the vulnerable
[54:42] people, but you know what? Framing us as
[54:45] framing this choice as accepted or
[54:47] people will suffer oversimplifies a
[54:50] complex situation that we really can't
[54:52] answer here today. I just, you know,
[54:54] rather than, you know, being pressured
[54:56] to adopt this today, I'd rather consider
[55:00] that solution, considering the safety
[55:02] for our, you know, for our citizens,
[55:04] considering all of the things that were
[55:06] talked about. And I I believe that
[55:09] ultimately, like right currently, I I
[55:11] believe that rejecting this proposal
[55:12] will push us to look at other options,
[55:16] other options where we collaborate more,
[55:18] we look for a stronger solution. So, I'm
[55:20] committed to working with the community
[55:21] to identify that. But you know what? for
[55:23] myself right now. This won't be my
[55:26] choice.
[55:28] >> Okay. Thank you for that. Anyone else at
[55:30] » Okay. Thank you for that. Anyone else at
[55:30] this point?
[55:32] >> Yes, Mr. Mayor.
[55:33] » Yes, Mr. Mayor.
[55:33] >> Oh, I'm sorry, Councelor Elliot. I
[55:35] » Oh, I'm sorry, Councelor Elliot. I
[55:35] didn't see a hand.
[55:37] >> Go ahead.
[55:38] » Go ahead.
[55:38] >> No, it's all good. Thank you so much.
[55:40] » No, it's all good. Thank you so much.
[55:40] And I want to thank the uh presenters
[55:42] for doing what they've done today. Um
[55:46] it's it's a very very important topic
[55:49] and and it's a difficult situation.
[55:53] I feel that it's
[55:55] very easy to talk about a warming center
[55:58] in the middle of summer and not see the
[56:01] risks to individuals that that are at
[56:04] need.
[56:06] Um
[56:08] I don't feel personally that having a
[56:11] warming warming center during the winter
[56:13] so we have occurrences of minus30
[56:17] um is going to bring people into town. I
[56:19] don't think it's going to make the
[56:20] situation worse. In fact, talking about
[56:23] knocking on doors at 3:00 in the
[56:25] morning, if if individuals are in a
[56:27] warming center and staying warm in the
[56:28] middle of the night, they're probably
[56:29] not going to be pounding on doors to try
[56:31] and get into somewhere warm or to do
[56:35] whatever they're doing.
[56:38] We can we can pause on this for sure,
[56:41] but it's it just doesn't solve the it
[56:44] just doesn't solve the problem for me.
[56:47] I think that we have to make a decision.
[56:50] And unlike another counselor, we can
[56:53] make that decision tonight. Okay? We
[56:55] don't have to pause on this. We can have
[56:57] the strength to move forward and show
[56:59] people that we care and that we're
[57:02] trying to keep them warm and trying to
[57:04] do the best for our constituents, for
[57:07] our people, especially those in need. I
[57:09] understand the challenges that the
[57:12] businesses are going through. I truly
[57:14] do. I see the downtown core myself,
[57:18] but I honestly don't think that offering
[57:21] 16 warm beds at night is going to change
[57:24] that situation
[57:26] and make it worse. I think we're going
[57:29] to show compassion, possibly going to
[57:31] save lives,
[57:34] and that's why I'm ready to move forward
[57:36] for the betterment of the community in
[57:38] in my opinion. Thank you.
[57:41] >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Elliot. I'd
[57:43] » Okay. Thank you, Councelor Elliot. I'd
[57:43] really like to before we get too far
[57:46] down the road of of expressing
[57:49] which way we're going to vote on this at
[57:52] this point. I' I'd really like to hear
[57:55] the count or the staff report and then
[57:58] because really this we have we have two
[58:01] presentations. We have Quinnell Shelter
[58:03] and Support Society whom we've heard
[58:05] from. We've had BC Housing who we've
[58:07] heard from but we heard we haven't heard
[58:09] from staff. So, let's uh pause for a
[58:12] moment and get that staff report uh
[58:14] dealt with and then and then have this
[58:16] discussion. Are we okay with that? Okay,
[58:19] Tanya. Go ahead.
[58:20] >> Thank Thank you, sir.
[58:22] » Thank Thank you, sir.
[58:22] >> I'm sorry. Go ahead, city manager.
[58:25] » I'm sorry. Go ahead, city manager.
[58:25] >> Yeah, Mr. Mayor. Just a moment so we can
[58:27] » Yeah, Mr. Mayor. Just a moment so we can
[58:27] excuse uh Mr. Shia and then change the
[58:30] screen so that Councelor Elliot uh can
[58:32] be seen and seen uh see what's going on
[58:34] in the room and then we'll move through
[58:37] your agenda to item E1.
[58:40] Okay, we are take we're not taking a a
[58:42] refreshment or a hydration break. We're
[58:45] taking a technology break.
[58:52] Okay, there we can see councelor Elliot
[58:55] now. So, are we are we good to move on
[58:58] and to the uh the staff report?
[59:01] Okay, Tanya, the floor is yours.
[59:04] >> Thank you, Mayor. And I think this is
[59:05] » Thank you, Mayor. And I think this is
[59:06] just going to provide a really good
[59:07] summary of the whole issue before you go
[59:09] into um some deliberations on some
[59:11] decisions. Uh again, the purpose of this
[59:13] report is consideration of the
[59:15] continuation of the temporary use permit
[59:17] for temporary winter shelter at 395
[59:19] Elliot. BC Housing, as you know, uh
[59:22] applied for the use of a temporary
[59:23] winter shelter at 395 due to shel due to
[59:26] the current shelter at 146 Carson Avenue
[59:30] being at and over capacity in winter
[59:33] seasons. um requiring staff to turn
[59:35] persons away. The identification of 395
[59:39] Elliott occurred following a year of
[59:41] searching for alternative locations. Um
[59:43] that was the a tense year. Uh as you
[59:45] know, we've been looking at other
[59:47] locations for a number of years. In
[59:49] December of 2025, council authorized the
[59:52] use of emergency shelter at 395 Elliot
[59:54] subject to reconsideration following
[59:56] additional reporting in what you're
[59:57] finding tonight. In June 23rd, um at
[1:00:01] June 23rd, 20 2026, BC Housing and the
[1:00:04] Quinnell Shelter Support Society
[1:00:06] presented to council on the prior year's
[1:00:08] experience.
[1:00:10] Council requested additional community
[1:00:12] notice of this consideration. Notice was
[1:00:14] issued for this meeting um via
[1:00:17] newspaper, website, and direct mail to
[1:00:18] surrounding property owners. Submission
[1:00:21] submissions have been received, and
[1:00:23] there's 30 included uh in this report
[1:00:25] tonight. Uh, six letters were received
[1:00:28] identifying concerns regarding public
[1:00:29] safety and nuisances, and I'll go into
[1:00:32] those more more. They're all attached.
[1:00:35] Um, uh, 20 four letters were issued in
[1:00:39] support of the facility. Four of those
[1:00:41] submissions were from organizations with
[1:00:44] within the community, and I'll go into
[1:00:45] those as well. Uh, as well as some of
[1:00:47] these supports. Um, submissions received
[1:00:49] in December can also find in the be
[1:00:51] found in the package. um that was at the
[1:00:53] original council uh consideration of
[1:00:55] this facility. At the June 23rd meeting,
[1:00:58] city staff also provided a plan for
[1:01:01] shelter renewal in the community um as
[1:01:03] well as the cold weather plan recently
[1:01:05] completed. And I just want to go back
[1:01:07] and definitely state the plan that we're
[1:01:09] referencing um that was part of uh BC
[1:01:12] Housing's uh um uh presentation in terms
[1:01:16] of consultation is a plan we prepared.
[1:01:19] So um and we are sharing and trying to
[1:01:21] partner with the BC housing on doing uh
[1:01:24] and was pro provided at that June 23rd
[1:01:26] meeting. BC Housing's application and
[1:01:29] consideration is for the temporary
[1:01:31] winter shelter operating October through
[1:01:33] May for the next two years. That's the
[1:01:36] nighttime winter shelter. Uh a separate
[1:01:39] initiative to work with BC H housing to
[1:01:41] find the loca a new location for shelter
[1:01:44] services to replace 146 Carson has been
[1:01:48] approved by council. So that that that
[1:01:50] consultation was something we reviewed
[1:01:52] and actually provide a resolution to
[1:01:53] approve. The warming and cooling center
[1:01:56] is funding only available to local
[1:01:59] governments. So when we keep talking
[1:02:01] about the warming centers, that's
[1:02:02] something that we organize and approve
[1:02:06] or not. If council approves
[1:02:11] contracting the service at the Cornell
[1:02:12] Shelter and Support Society to run out
[1:02:14] of 395 Elliot, that would be for the
[1:02:17] daytime hours when there are emergency
[1:02:19] conditions prescribed by the cold
[1:02:21] weather and extreme weather response
[1:02:22] plans. That's something that the
[1:02:24] government and which uh um Tammy uh from
[1:02:28] through the Quinnell Shelter Support
[1:02:29] Society has identified is a very awkward
[1:02:32] system. We that we've continuously
[1:02:34] mentioned to council through the
[1:02:35] government. uh the separation of those
[1:02:37] two things into two different funding
[1:02:39] agencies has created a lot of uh
[1:02:41] difficulties with us in terms of trying
[1:02:44] to organize these types of facilities um
[1:02:46] as well as for uh the Quendel shelter
[1:02:48] support study um in trying to manage the
[1:02:51] population.
[1:02:53] The shelter beds in comparable
[1:02:55] communities are also attached for
[1:02:56] consideration and we've put those in
[1:02:58] just so that you can see the number of
[1:03:00] shelters that are um uh in various
[1:03:03] communities and and the fact that we are
[1:03:05] really not outside of the norm for with
[1:03:08] respect to and that includes with the
[1:03:09] additional 16 um shelter spaces in like
[1:03:13] communities.
[1:03:18] So, I would go to um uh the chair to
[1:03:22] determine should we go into the
[1:03:24] resolution right now or would you like
[1:03:25] more comments?
[1:03:26] >> I think you could uh read the
[1:03:28] » I think you could uh read the
[1:03:28] recommendation and I'll I'll call for a
[1:03:31] mover and second and we'll get it on the
[1:03:32] floor and then we'll have some
[1:03:34] discussion.
[1:03:35] >> Thank you, mayor. The the recommendation
[1:03:37] » Thank you, mayor. The the recommendation
[1:03:37] is that council endorse continuation of
[1:03:39] the temporary w temporary shelter under
[1:03:41] the temporary use permit TUS
[1:03:44] 202506 at 395 Elliot Street and that
[1:03:48] council endorse staff developing an
[1:03:50] agreement to utilize 395 Elliot for a
[1:03:52] warming and cooling center during
[1:03:54] periods of extreme weather as defined in
[1:03:57] the city's cold weather and extreme heat
[1:03:59] plans.
[1:04:01] >> Okay. So, a mover.
[1:04:04] » Okay. So, a mover.
[1:04:04] Are we having
[1:04:06] >> Sorry. Councelor Rudenberg is moving. Do
[1:04:10] » Sorry. Councelor Rudenberg is moving. Do
[1:04:10] we have a second?
[1:04:10] >> Councelor Elliot.
[1:04:11] » Councelor Elliot.
[1:04:11] >> Councelor Elliott is seconding. Okay,
[1:04:14] » Councelor Elliott is seconding. Okay,
[1:04:14] we're on the floor now. I'm opening it
[1:04:16] for council discussion. anybody
[1:04:20] before I I'm
[1:04:22] >> just
[1:04:22] » just
[1:04:22] >> I'm not I hope I don't have to call the
[1:04:24] » I'm not I hope I don't have to call the
[1:04:24] question yet but uh because I've got
[1:04:27] some comments but I'm
[1:04:28] >> but we were going to have
[1:04:30] » but we were going to have
[1:04:30] >> gallery I I want council first
[1:04:33] » gallery I I want council first
[1:04:33] if if you think that we could what's
[1:04:35] your choice council would you like to
[1:04:37] hear from the gallery first and then ask
[1:04:40] your questions I thought that I may be
[1:04:42] doing it the the other way around but
[1:04:45] what's your pleasure councel
[1:04:48] Go ahead, Councelor Elliot or pardon me,
[1:04:50] Council Run.
[1:04:50] >> I prefer public input, please.
[1:04:53] » I prefer public input, please.
[1:04:53] >> First, okay. Are are we okay with uh
[1:04:56] » First, okay. Are are we okay with uh
[1:04:56] inviting um gallery questions at this
[1:04:59] point?
[1:05:00] >> I have a question, Mr. Mayor.
[1:05:02] » I have a question, Mr. Mayor.
[1:05:02] >> Go ahead.
[1:05:04] » Go ahead.
[1:05:04] >> Yeah. I'm curious, as you mentioned
[1:05:05] » Yeah. I'm curious, as you mentioned
[1:05:05] before, this is the first time that this
[1:05:07] has taken place where we have the
[1:05:08] gallery questions ahead of where it's
[1:05:11] scheduled on the agenda. How did we come
[1:05:12] up with that, please? Because I don't
[1:05:14] remember. If I missed it, I do
[1:05:16] apologize, but I don't remember anything
[1:05:17] coming to council.
[1:05:19] >> Well, we we I discussed it with staff uh
[1:05:21] » Well, we we I discussed it with staff uh
[1:05:21] earlier today and we felt it was uh more
[1:05:24] beneficial that council makes their
[1:05:27] decision in light of any questions that
[1:05:31] come from the gallery because if the if
[1:05:34] the decision is made, uh those questions
[1:05:37] from the gallery are really a moot
[1:05:39] point. That's my point. Go ahead,
[1:05:41] councelor Run.
[1:05:42] >> I get it. I get it. If I could just uh
[1:05:45] » I get it. I get it. If I could just uh
[1:05:45] complete my thought here. Um I
[1:05:47] understand 100% how that works. It's
[1:05:49] just it's never been done before. So I
[1:05:51] think we're kind of setting precedent
[1:05:53] here on on how we uh operate our
[1:05:55] meetings from now on. Thank you.
[1:05:58] >> Actually, if I may, Councelor Elliot, we
[1:06:00] » Actually, if I may, Councelor Elliot, we
[1:06:00] actually had a discussion right at the
[1:06:01] beginning when we're setting the agenda
[1:06:03] and I requested that this be put in at
[1:06:05] this time and we changed the agenda
[1:06:06] right in the prior in the beginning part
[1:06:08] of the meeting.
[1:06:11] >> Okay. So thank you for that. Uh now I'm
[1:06:14] » Okay. So thank you for that. Uh now I'm
[1:06:14] ready to entertain questions and it's
[1:06:17] again it's not debate it it's not
[1:06:19] comments it's not this or that it it is
[1:06:22] pure questions.
[1:06:25] >> So u can we go ahead with that and when
[1:06:27] » So u can we go ahead with that and when
[1:06:27] you do come up to the microphone we just
[1:06:30] ask that you uh give us your name for
[1:06:32] the record and proceed with your
[1:06:34] question.
[1:06:36] Do I have any takers?
[1:06:39] Come on up sir.
[1:06:50] John River 221 Enark Road South. I've
[1:06:54] come here this evening to talk about or
[1:06:56] listen about a a warming center, a
[1:07:00] cooling center, but unfortunately we've
[1:07:04] added
[1:07:06] everything else. drug addiction,
[1:07:08] homelessness,
[1:07:10] the whole umbrella and said this
[1:07:13] cooling, this shelter is no good because
[1:07:15] of all these problems.
[1:07:18] We need to concentrate, can we
[1:07:20] concentrate on the the shelter itself
[1:07:23] and not bog oursel down with
[1:07:27] everything else?
[1:07:29] So your question then is can we should
[1:07:32] concentrate on the shelter and not all
[1:07:34] of the other complexities that are
[1:07:36] plaguing us
[1:07:37] >> and say that the shelter is not good
[1:07:40] » and say that the shelter is not good
[1:07:40] because of that
[1:07:42] >> as I said at the outset of the meeting
[1:07:44] » as I said at the outset of the meeting
[1:07:44] that's as the chair and the pilot here
[1:07:47] that that is my goal to try to keep
[1:07:49] everybody on track so that um we are
[1:07:52] really just talking and deciding about
[1:07:55] the shelter.
[1:07:56] >> Okay. So if I can
[1:07:57] » Okay. So if I can
[1:07:57] >> Okay. Thank you.
[1:07:58] » Okay. Thank you.
[1:07:58] >> I can see that happening. I would be
[1:07:59] » I can see that happening. I would be
[1:08:00] greatly appreciated. Thank you.
[1:08:01] >> Thank you. Anyone else from the gallery?
[1:08:05] » Thank you. Anyone else from the gallery?
[1:08:05] Come on up, sir.
[1:08:09] » We just need your name. We don't need
[1:08:11] your rank and serial number. Just your
[1:08:13] name.
[1:08:25] » My name is Tom Sally. Um, I retired from
[1:08:27] working in this exact field that you
[1:08:30] guys are talking about. And I agree with
[1:08:33] the guy over there that this should be
[1:08:36] about getting more services here. And my
[1:08:39] question is, if this is such a big deal
[1:08:43] to each of the counselors and to city
[1:08:45] hall, how come you haven't brought the
[1:08:49] five parties
[1:08:51] together to make a plan regardless of
[1:08:54] what facilities you have?
[1:08:57] >> Thank you.
[1:08:58] » Thank you.
[1:08:58] >> Okay, that that's a very good question.
[1:09:00] » Okay, that that's a very good question.
[1:09:00] >> How come the counselors haven't done
[1:09:02] » How come the counselors haven't done
[1:09:02] this?
[1:09:02] >> Well, no, we have we have done a lot. So
[1:09:05] » Well, no, we have we have done a lot. So
[1:09:05] Tanya, do you want to just bring bring
[1:09:07] everyone up to speed on on you know we
[1:09:09] we have a plan and and this is this is
[1:09:12] all part of it. I mean this this is not
[1:09:14] the first time that we've had this
[1:09:16] discussion.
[1:09:17] >> Thank you. Yes, I would suggest that
[1:09:19] » Thank you. Yes, I would suggest that
[1:09:19] we've been having this discussion about
[1:09:20] as long as I've been working for the
[1:09:22] city. So there's been numerous suggest
[1:09:25] discussions. There's been numerous um um
[1:09:29] applications that have been made. Um
[1:09:31] we've been at this table a number of
[1:09:32] times and I think the uh the concerns
[1:09:35] that have been brought up are absolutely
[1:09:37] valid on all fronts. Um and I think that
[1:09:41] the uh the concern the the discussion
[1:09:43] about uh that there is a growing issue
[1:09:46] that is that is plaguing the broader the
[1:09:50] broader uh society that just our
[1:09:52] community is very valid and it's about
[1:09:55] what do we choose to do in order to
[1:09:57] respond to those those issues to best
[1:09:59] protect our community.
[1:10:02] >> Okay, thank you for that. Uh come on up.
[1:10:05] » Okay, thank you for that. Uh come on up.
[1:10:05] Yes, please. Uh just your name and your
[1:10:07] question, please.
[1:10:07] >> Mr. Mayor, if if I may just interject, I
[1:10:11] » Mr. Mayor, if if I may just interject, I
[1:10:11] just want to add a comment to what Tanya
[1:10:13] is saying and uh the member of the
[1:10:16] gallery is welcome to sit down while I
[1:10:18] add my comment. So certainly to Tanya's
[1:10:21] point uh yeah this has been an ongoing
[1:10:23] conversation but but to answer that
[1:10:25] gallery question so if you go back to
[1:10:27] the June meeting at that point in time
[1:10:29] council did endorse the engagement
[1:10:32] strategy for how we were going to work
[1:10:34] with all of these different entities
[1:10:36] around the community uh but also senior
[1:10:38] levels of government to come up with a
[1:10:40] long-term strategy for a replacement of
[1:10:43] the existing shelter in the community.
[1:10:45] Tonight's question is limited to the
[1:10:48] temporary use permit of 395 Elliott. And
[1:10:51] the reason why for for the community's
[1:10:53] knowledge and the gallery's knowledge,
[1:10:56] the reason why that is separated out is
[1:10:58] that engagement strategy with the
[1:11:00] community for a long-term shelter
[1:11:03] solution is going to take significant
[1:11:04] time. This specific issue was forwarded
[1:11:07] by BC Housing following the temporary
[1:11:09] use permit that was granted at the end
[1:11:10] of December asking for a continued
[1:11:13] operation for the next two years. So
[1:11:16] those two things have been separated
[1:11:17] out. Uh but just for the gallery and the
[1:11:19] community's knowledge, that plan is
[1:11:21] absolutely what staff have been directed
[1:11:24] now to carry out over the next number of
[1:11:27] months into 2027 to come up with that
[1:11:29] long-term strategy which involves the
[1:11:32] engagement of a variety of stakeholders
[1:11:34] from throughout the community.
[1:11:37] Uh thank you for that. And and tonight
[1:11:39] is really all a part of that plan. And I
[1:11:41] believe it was uh June 23, not that long
[1:11:44] ago that that uh the council um set this
[1:11:48] in in gear. Uh is there anything else
[1:11:51] from the gallery before
[1:11:52] >> she's sitting down there?
[1:11:53] » she's sitting down there?
[1:11:53] >> Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. There you are.
[1:11:55] » Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. There you are.
[1:11:55] I I was looking in the gallery for you.
[1:11:57] Go ahead.
[1:11:57] >> Not a worry, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Uh
[1:12:00] » Not a worry, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Uh
[1:12:00] Mr. Mayor and Council, my name is
[1:12:01] Michael Vaughn. Um, my question for you
[1:12:04] is about the resolution and to to pay
[1:12:08] you the respect because I know you are
[1:12:12] very concerned about people freezing to
[1:12:15] death in extreme weather. You wish to
[1:12:18] see lives saved. My question to you in
[1:12:20] relation to this resolution is what
[1:12:22] exactly is the alternative?
[1:12:24] Um, it was unclear to me in looking at
[1:12:27] this permit that there was an
[1:12:28] alternative on the floor that would keep
[1:12:31] people alive in extreme weather during
[1:12:32] the winter. So, that is my question.
[1:12:34] Thank you.
[1:12:36] >> Okay, thank you for that. Uh, does
[1:12:38] » Okay, thank you for that. Uh, does
[1:12:38] anyone uh want to take a a shot at this
[1:12:41] one? It's it's a very u pertinent and
[1:12:44] relevant question. I mean, I I don't
[1:12:47] personally I don't think there is an
[1:12:49] alternative. Um, but I know that
[1:12:53] there's, you know, some concern about
[1:12:55] the location, uh, and and how that melds
[1:13:00] into the the overall plan. Does anyone
[1:13:02] else want to jump in here? Councelor
[1:13:05] Councelor Rudenberg.
[1:13:08] Um, so I know I've come across as quite
[1:13:10] the negative Nelly tonight. And what I
[1:13:13] want to make clear is this is what I've
[1:13:15] heard from community members that I've
[1:13:17] spoken to. not necessarily my own
[1:13:19] beliefs, but what I've heard, and I
[1:13:21] needed to put that out there so that
[1:13:23] they know that they've been heard by
[1:13:25] people who they represent. Um, I
[1:13:29] understand that we need to protect our
[1:13:31] vulnerable population, especially in
[1:13:33] extreme weather. I get that. Whether
[1:13:35] it's cold or heat, do we have an
[1:13:37] alternative?
[1:13:39] Not right now. Um, if we were to build
[1:13:43] um this amazing shelter in the near
[1:13:46] future that has opportunities to house
[1:13:49] temporary winter um uh uh groups and
[1:13:53] offer cold and warm weather uh shelter.
[1:13:58] That would be a bonus. That that would
[1:14:01] be the best thing that could happen. We
[1:14:04] don't have that right now. Um, I think
[1:14:07] that, you know, and I apologize. I'm
[1:14:10] probably one of the ones that kind of
[1:14:12] went off in every different tangent you
[1:14:14] could think about. So, thank you for
[1:14:16] getting us back on track about this
[1:14:19] particular piece. Um,
[1:14:22] it will be an interesting vote around
[1:14:23] the table. I think that post vote, we
[1:14:27] have to look back at our um
[1:14:30] community uh plan bylaw where it talks
[1:14:34] about working with in partnership with
[1:14:36] other levels of government, community
[1:14:38] organizations, and service providers and
[1:14:42] make these other pieces happen. It's
[1:14:44] about how do we change mandates. It's
[1:14:46] about all of those conversations that we
[1:14:48] need to have in the future to create
[1:14:51] opportunities for proper housing for our
[1:14:54] entire community. The one thing that I
[1:14:57] know that people are concerned about is
[1:14:59] about the whole sliding um Elliot Street
[1:15:02] into a full-time shelter space. And
[1:15:06] that's what people do not want to see.
[1:15:09] They want to see the proper um uh
[1:15:12] communication with the community about
[1:15:14] what another shelter looks like. They
[1:15:17] don't want to see this sliding into
[1:15:19] another full-time shelter. Um but
[1:15:22] offering those services that we need to
[1:15:25] make sure that vulnerable populations
[1:15:27] are safe.
[1:15:29] They agree with that. Um I'll leave it
[1:15:33] at that. Mayor.
[1:15:35] >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Rudenberg.
[1:15:37] » Okay. Thank you, Councelor Rudenberg.
[1:15:37] Councelor Runge
[1:15:40] >> and you know it's it's tough on us to
[1:15:42] » and you know it's it's tough on us to
[1:15:42] say hey this choice is accepted or they
[1:15:44] will suffer. We know there's suffering
[1:15:46] out there but like I said before it
[1:15:49] really oversimplifies this situation and
[1:15:52] it limits what we consider as
[1:15:54] alternatives. So are there alternatives?
[1:15:56] Yes, I think there are alternatives.
[1:15:58] Maybe we could bring a trailer in. Maybe
[1:16:00] uh you know BC Housing can bring a
[1:16:01] trailer in just or maybe they we could
[1:16:03] work a little quicker to uh build Grace
[1:16:05] in so it you know meets its mandate. You
[1:16:08] know there's all these other things that
[1:16:09] are in process that are slowed down cuz
[1:16:11] we don't have money from BC housing.
[1:16:14] this could actually change a little bit
[1:16:16] and we push these things to a better
[1:16:18] solution there and build it up instead
[1:16:21] of just saying, you know what, we're
[1:16:23] going to just open another place, which
[1:16:25] as the counselor previous to me just
[1:16:27] said, we really worry that it's going to
[1:16:30] just slide into another
[1:16:33] shelter. And for the people that say it
[1:16:35] doesn't cause extra hotspots for our for
[1:16:39] our RCMP, our police, our fire
[1:16:41] departments, unfortunately, it does.
[1:16:44] So,
[1:16:46] you know, I to say, you know, that we're
[1:16:50] finding this easy to make this decision,
[1:16:53] you know, I just can't answer that, you
[1:16:55] know, because it's that's not really
[1:16:56] what we're at here.
[1:16:59] >> In this moment of pause, I'm going to
[1:17:01] » In this moment of pause, I'm going to
[1:17:01] come back to you, Joanie, but I got to
[1:17:03] say that uh and I I think I'm sort of
[1:17:05] sharing um the view of this entire
[1:17:08] council. If anything keeps us awake at
[1:17:12] night, it is this.
[1:17:15] Forget about gold pans, forget about
[1:17:17] bridges, forget about interconnectors.
[1:17:19] This this is the sleep robber. Okay, I'm
[1:17:23] going to Joanie Davis next for the
[1:17:26] >> Yes, I pushed the button already.
[1:17:30] » Yes, I pushed the button already.
[1:17:30] >> Hello, my name is Joanie Davis. Um,
[1:17:34] » Hello, my name is Joanie Davis. Um,
[1:17:34] I think what you said, uh, Council Rangi
[1:17:37] just said it perfectly. We all have very
[1:17:40] big hearts. Um, my question is going to
[1:17:43] go back to uh I believe it's Tammy. I I
[1:17:46] have I'm looking for clarity on who are
[1:17:49] those the bodies that are not giving you
[1:17:52] the information. I would like to know
[1:17:54] who they are and what bodies are you
[1:17:56] having issues with? Who are the
[1:17:58] department heads of those bodies? And I
[1:18:00] believe we need to get together
[1:18:04] all levels of government and get
[1:18:06] accountable
[1:18:08] because I believe that if the plane's
[1:18:11] going down, you put your own mask on
[1:18:13] first. We need you to put your mask on
[1:18:15] first so then we can help other people.
[1:18:18] That's my point. And I think there's a
[1:18:21] lot of government bodies out there that
[1:18:24] are not being accountable to what this
[1:18:27] situation is. And I believe as a small
[1:18:30] town, we can lead this mission by
[1:18:34] example in British Columbia if we do it
[1:18:37] together. We all have big hearts. We all
[1:18:39] want to do the right thing, but we have
[1:18:42] to put our masks on first and care for
[1:18:46] what we have now.
[1:18:49] That's what I have to say.
[1:18:51] >> Okay. Thank you, Joanie. And I I really
[1:18:53] » Okay. Thank you, Joanie. And I I really
[1:18:53] do like the mask uh analogy. Um, so is
[1:18:59] where's the representative for the
[1:19:01] shelter society?
[1:19:03] Can we get an answer to that or um any
[1:19:07] kind of a comment? The the co the
[1:19:09] question was really um directed to the
[1:19:12] um the shelter society I believe.
[1:19:16] Correct me if I'm wrong.
[1:19:18] >> Who are these governing bodies? Who are
[1:19:21] » Who are these governing bodies? Who are
[1:19:21] you having
[1:19:24] >> mayor? stuff. I think that was the
[1:19:28] » mayor? stuff. I think that was the
[1:19:28] >> just just in terms of the point, we
[1:19:30] » just just in terms of the point, we
[1:19:30] typically don't have questions going
[1:19:32] back and forth to to the gallery.
[1:19:35] >> Okay. Thank you for that. All right. So,
[1:19:37] » Okay. Thank you for that. All right. So,
[1:19:37] let's move on and see if there's here's
[1:19:40] another one. Come on up. Just your name
[1:19:42] and and your question, please.
[1:19:49] Hello, my name is Lisa Budro and I am
[1:19:53] the board chair of the school district
[1:19:55] 28. Um, with me I have superintendent
[1:19:58] Lounge. I have trustee vice chair Honey
[1:20:01] Affleck, trustee Julianne Runge, Trustee
[1:20:04] David Chapman, and of course at your
[1:20:06] table you have trustee Tony Goule. Um, I
[1:20:09] do have a question. Um, but I will start
[1:20:11] just by saying I do um or school
[1:20:14] district 28 does recognize the
[1:20:15] complexity of this issue and this work.
[1:20:19] Um, we appreciate the work being done by
[1:20:20] those who are trying to help. We have a
[1:20:23] responsibility to ensure that our
[1:20:25] schools remain safe learning and work
[1:20:27] environments for our students and our
[1:20:28] staff. We have continued to experience a
[1:20:31] number of incidents at Riverview
[1:20:33] Elementary School that are directly
[1:20:34] impacting the school community. Every
[1:20:37] incident requires time, resources, and
[1:20:39] attention from our educators and school
[1:20:41] district 28 staff that would otherwise
[1:20:43] be dedicated to supporting the students
[1:20:45] in learning.
[1:20:47] School District 28 supports the initi
[1:20:49] initiative and recognizes its important
[1:20:51] while also emphasizing the need for
[1:20:53] ongoing and increased supports to ensure
[1:20:55] the safety and well-being of our
[1:20:57] students and our staff. Our students and
[1:21:00] staff deserve to learn and work in an
[1:21:02] environment where they feel safe every
[1:21:04] single day. I respectfully ask that
[1:21:07] students and staff remain the guiding
[1:21:09] principle as your decision comes upon
[1:21:11] you tonight and um keeping in mind as a
[1:21:14] guiding principle um as you guys move
[1:21:17] forward in this work.
[1:21:21] » Okay. So,
[1:21:23] I'm I'm I'm at a bit of a loss on how to
[1:21:25] handle that one. Is there any council
[1:21:27] member that wants to jump in on this or
[1:21:29] uh
[1:21:35] » that's okay. We can leave it at that
[1:21:36] too. Just keep kids in mind.
[1:21:39] >> Okay. Well, thank you. Uh duly noted and
[1:21:43] » Okay. Well, thank you. Uh duly noted and
[1:21:43] and good for the good for the school
[1:21:45] district chair and another uh trustee to
[1:21:48] be here. Maybe there Oh, another one
[1:21:51] too. So, holy smokes, we got quorum.
[1:21:55] Okay,
[1:21:57] >> go ahead. Councelor Runge,
[1:22:00] » go ahead. Councelor Runge,
[1:22:00] >> thank you. Thanks for being here.
[1:22:02] » thank you. Thanks for being here.
[1:22:02] Michael, I I do have a question with
[1:22:04] regards to I guess Elliot Street. Did
[1:22:08] were did you have an increase of any
[1:22:11] incidents from the January to March time
[1:22:14] or April time over previous years?
[1:22:17] >> Thank you. I'm actually going to look at
[1:22:20] » Thank you. I'm actually going to look at
[1:22:20] uh Superintendent Lens to see if he can
[1:22:21] better answer that for you.
[1:22:24] Sorry,
[1:22:30] put you in a hot seat.
[1:22:32] >> That's okay.
[1:22:34] » That's okay.
[1:22:34] Good evening everyone. I'm
[1:22:35] Superintendent Dan Louns from School
[1:22:36] District 28. Uh, thank you for the
[1:22:38] question, counselor. Um, anecdotally,
[1:22:41] um, not a not a significant increase,
[1:22:44] um, between, um, December, um, until
[1:22:48] now. um at Riverview. I can tell you um
[1:22:51] that um Riverview Elementary and Helen
[1:22:54] Dixon Center are definitely our two hot
[1:22:57] spot uh school locations um for
[1:22:59] troubling situations. Um we did we in
[1:23:04] the for the previous uh council meeting
[1:23:06] we did, you know, sort of at a high
[1:23:09] level describe some of the concerns. Um
[1:23:11] the concerns haven't reduced by any
[1:23:14] stretch. Um but I don't have specific
[1:23:16] data on the number of incidents. Um the
[1:23:19] incidents have been reported to RCMP to
[1:23:23] bylaw etc. as well as a number of um
[1:23:26] ongoing concerns dealt with at the
[1:23:28] school level. Um whether we're talking
[1:23:30] about cleaning up of paraphernalia
[1:23:33] um weapons, pillows, all sorts of things
[1:23:36] that are that are found early in the
[1:23:37] morning usually by the school principal.
[1:23:40] Um and then there have been a number of
[1:23:42] cases that um you know it have been a
[1:23:44] spectrum of u response um from folks
[1:23:49] entering the school um to being on
[1:23:51] school site um that needed either RCMP
[1:23:54] or bylaw um intervention to to support.
[1:23:58] I'm not sure if that answers your
[1:23:59] question.
[1:24:01] >> Thank you. Hey, in a perfect world, data
[1:24:03] » Thank you. Hey, in a perfect world, data
[1:24:03] is great. Thank you very much.
[1:24:08] >> Okay, thank you for that. Uh, anyone
[1:24:10] » Okay, thank you for that. Uh, anyone
[1:24:10] else want to brave the microphone? Dan,
[1:24:13] no, you're you're okay.
[1:24:19] Uh, one minute. We got one coming up
[1:24:21] behind U.
[1:24:27] Yeah, you're up, Cleo.
[1:24:32] Press the Press the red button.
[1:24:39] There we go.
[1:24:39] >> Thank you.
[1:24:41] » Thank you.
[1:24:41] My name is Cleo.
[1:24:44] I'm a 75year-old woman who has been
[1:24:48] working on our streets for a long time.
[1:24:52] And
[1:24:55] I'm a country girl. I try to think of
[1:24:57] things simply.
[1:25:00] Uh, one of the discussions was
[1:25:04] when people leave the shelter facility,
[1:25:09] why is the shelter being held
[1:25:11] responsible for the behavior?
[1:25:14] Um,
[1:25:16] if you have a a pet that leaves your
[1:25:20] premises and misbehaves,
[1:25:23] if you have a family member who leaves
[1:25:26] your home and misbehaves,
[1:25:30] what can we do about it?
[1:25:33] Do we just Oh, well,
[1:25:37] we we don't even have an SPCA anymore
[1:25:40] from what I can understand when we have
[1:25:42] these problems. So
[1:25:45] these animals, these family members,
[1:25:48] these people in our community who are
[1:25:51] are mentally ill, who are not getting
[1:25:55] medical services they need, if if we
[1:25:59] don't
[1:26:01] provide
[1:26:04] winter shelter in cold weather, well,
[1:26:07] we'll certainly reduce the numbers of
[1:26:09] those people. It's that simple.
[1:26:12] Because
[1:26:14] I don't like to be out there at minus
[1:26:16] 20, minus30
[1:26:18] providing food for people who are
[1:26:21] hungry.
[1:26:23] And I'm certain that
[1:26:25] none of you would.
[1:26:27] I would like to ask
[1:26:30] each one of you, if you're willing, go
[1:26:34] with me one day. go with me
[1:26:39] and and go to the shelter, go to the
[1:26:41] Grayson, go to Season's House, go to
[1:26:44] Bridges and firsthand
[1:26:47] see our community members and the
[1:26:50] struggling and the situation that
[1:26:52] they're in. I understand that there are
[1:26:55] community members that are afraid. I
[1:26:58] hear it all the time. Uh, I'm afraid to
[1:27:01] walk downtown because I'm not safe.
[1:27:04] I understand those feelings for them. I
[1:27:07] don't share them when I'm out there.
[1:27:11] I don't feel that way. I think twice in
[1:27:15] the last years that I've been doing
[1:27:17] this, I've felt uncomfortable and unsafe
[1:27:21] and I just simply got in my vehicle and
[1:27:24] locked the door.
[1:27:27] But I cannot in good conscience say we
[1:27:31] don't need a temporary wheel shelter
[1:27:33] because it makes someone else
[1:27:36] uncomfortable. It's going to cause
[1:27:38] deaths. Are you okay with that on your
[1:27:42] heart?
[1:27:44] Please come with me. See them firsthand.
[1:27:50] There's nothing like one-on-one
[1:27:53] education.
[1:27:55] And it's not that I condone their
[1:27:57] behaviors. It's not that I condone
[1:27:59] lawlessness or crimes or violence.
[1:28:04] But the big picture is as a country, as
[1:28:07] a province, we're not providing the
[1:28:10] services that these people need. So what
[1:28:13] are we going to do with them? They're
[1:28:15] everywhere.
[1:28:17] But at least we can keep them from
[1:28:19] freezing to death in the winter. Please,
[1:28:22] let's try to do that.
[1:28:24] We can't solve everything, but this is
[1:28:27] one step in a good direction.
[1:28:32] Thank you for that, Cleo. Uh well said.
[1:28:36] Uh and I agree that um
[1:28:39] if if there was an opportunity I I guess
[1:28:42] a structured opportunity for us to um
[1:28:46] participate in the coldest night or or
[1:28:49] you know visiting the shelters. it. I
[1:28:53] mean, I've been to Season's House. I've
[1:28:55] been to Bridges. Um, and I I do remember
[1:28:58] in in a former life actually sleeping
[1:29:01] out. Um, I think it was in Labour Park,
[1:29:04] but I mean, that was a long time ago.
[1:29:07] Uh, but personally, I I would I would
[1:29:09] welcome that if if that opportunity
[1:29:11] would were to represent itself. Anyone
[1:29:15] else uh from the gallery? Come on up.
[1:29:22] Hi, my name is Grace Curry. Um, I just
[1:29:26] want to echo that that when
[1:29:29] you are talking about community events,
[1:29:32] there's a healing fire that's held every
[1:29:34] single month. Um, people come out from
[1:29:38] everywhere and this is a moment that
[1:29:42] there is that firsthand education.
[1:29:44] people are struggling and I think it's a
[1:29:47] perfect opportunity for a lot of people
[1:29:50] to really see that these are humans and
[1:29:52] when we talk about fear and feeling
[1:29:55] unsafe. Can I'm going to ask that this
[1:29:59] decision holds empathy and takes empathy
[1:30:03] of these individuals lives. I understand
[1:30:06] the business owner's fears. I understand
[1:30:08] those fears. So in the same respect that
[1:30:11] you can understand the business owner's
[1:30:13] fears, can you please take a moment to
[1:30:14] understand what these individuals lives
[1:30:17] have been living there? You want to talk
[1:30:20] about fear, this is the most
[1:30:21] unimaginable
[1:30:23] fear and you're only seeing maybe 1 2%
[1:30:27] of what they're living when you see them
[1:30:29] on the street. That's not their whole
[1:30:31] story. And I ask you in this decision to
[1:30:34] really look at their full story.
[1:30:37] take a neoliberal approach to understand
[1:30:39] the system that they are living in that
[1:30:43] a lot of them didn't choose this.
[1:30:44] They're not choosing to be in pain.
[1:30:46] They're not choosing to suffer. And I
[1:30:48] ask you to come to the healing fire. I
[1:30:50] ask you to come see what is happening
[1:30:53] here firsthand. See the services that we
[1:30:56] have. See the people that are showing up
[1:30:58] every single month and bringing
[1:31:00] everything that they have. Please take a
[1:31:02] moment to understand what these people's
[1:31:04] lives are living and what they're going
[1:31:06] through and have the same empathy that
[1:31:09] you have for your business owners, for
[1:31:11] the people that are literally being
[1:31:14] missing and murdered all along our our
[1:31:16] country every single day. Thank you.
[1:31:21] >> Thank you for that. Um, it wasn't quite
[1:31:24] » Thank you for that. Um, it wasn't quite
[1:31:24] a question, but I did detect a question
[1:31:26] mark at the end. So, thank you. Someone
[1:31:29] else.
[1:31:33] Come on up, Dave.
[1:31:53] Okay, thank you very much.
[1:31:57] Um,
[1:31:59] council,
[1:32:02] I want you to uh
[1:32:04] look at as something that you might have
[1:32:07] overlooked. The first thing I think is
[1:32:11] important is you missed the vote
[1:32:14] on a couple of issues. You missed the
[1:32:16] boat when you didn't include the RCMP to
[1:32:18] be here tonight.
[1:32:20] As most of you are aware,
[1:32:25] I was the guard supervisor down at the
[1:32:27] police station or the jail
[1:32:30] for 31 years.
[1:32:32] That is not
[1:32:34] the jail is not a home for people
[1:32:37] anytime you have a problem. But that's
[1:32:39] what it's become. the number of people
[1:32:42] that come through there just because you
[1:32:44] didn't have a bed for them, you put them
[1:32:45] in a cell and you thought that problem
[1:32:48] went away for the night.
[1:32:51] Well, as a human being and as the person
[1:32:53] that worked there,
[1:32:56] that is improper.
[1:32:58] Everybody needs a place to live and stay
[1:33:01] and a steel bed isn't the answer or the
[1:33:04] drunk tank.
[1:33:06] But what was happening there was anytime
[1:33:08] there was a problem in in season house
[1:33:11] or bridges, you called the RCMP and all
[1:33:14] they did was take them and put them in
[1:33:15] jail.
[1:33:17] Well, in my case, I'm okay because I
[1:33:20] have a bed and I have a house and I had
[1:33:22] employment through the city. But what
[1:33:24] you failed to re resolve was resolve the
[1:33:29] problem.
[1:33:31] I think it's important to know from my
[1:33:34] perspective.
[1:33:37] Everybody needs a place to stay
[1:33:40] in all kinds of weather.
[1:33:43] Jail isn't the answer. And jail is not a
[1:33:45] solution. Jail is not a shelter. But
[1:33:48] it's been used time and time again as
[1:33:52] this problem solver. It is not. The only
[1:33:56] other thing I wish to
[1:33:59] say and that is
[1:34:01] uh probably I'll be a little bit out of
[1:34:04] line here. I think uh council
[1:34:08] was very disrespectful tonight
[1:34:11] in not including
[1:34:15] the school district to give a
[1:34:16] presentation before you came to question
[1:34:18] period.
[1:34:20] We are also we have a major concern as
[1:34:23] you heard.
[1:34:24] I'm not speaking on behalf of the school
[1:34:26] district. I'm going to speak on behalf
[1:34:28] of myself. But as you know, I'm a school
[1:34:29] trustee.
[1:34:31] And I think it's disrespectful
[1:34:34] when you asked them to make a
[1:34:36] presentation
[1:34:38] and you you ignored them on the agenda.
[1:34:42] I'll leave it at that.
[1:34:43] >> Uh thank you, Dave, and I apologize for
[1:34:46] » Uh thank you, Dave, and I apologize for
[1:34:46] that. Uh but really the the the impetus
[1:34:49] for this meeting um you know was or is
[1:34:52] the the location of the of the uh
[1:34:55] temporary shelter and that's why we have
[1:34:58] housing doing the I guess the uh the
[1:35:01] major presentation and and shelter and
[1:35:04] support society um joining in and also
[1:35:08] our staff report. I I suppose we could
[1:35:11] stretch out and you know have the the
[1:35:14] Chamber of Commerce and the business
[1:35:16] associations and and I and we we would
[1:35:20] be here all night and and certainly if
[1:35:22] the if the school district would like to
[1:35:24] come back and you know engage um you're
[1:35:28] you're doing that right now. Um but um
[1:35:32] you you do raise a good point so I
[1:35:35] apologize and I thank you.
[1:35:38] Anyone else from the gallery?
[1:35:44] Okay. So, are we ready to uh move ahead
[1:35:48] with the resolution? I I I have a couple
[1:35:52] I have a actually a question uh for the
[1:35:55] resolution. And the resolution is duly
[1:35:57] moved and seconded, but I'm wondering if
[1:36:00] it's possible. The resolution doesn't
[1:36:03] say that it's a two-year agreement. And
[1:36:06] I I think that the the actual permit
[1:36:09] would say that it's 2 years, but should
[1:36:12] the should the resolution contain a
[1:36:15] reference to the the time period of the
[1:36:19] um of the tenure.
[1:36:24] » The temporary use uh permits only for a
[1:36:26] three-year period. Um it would have to
[1:36:28] be renewed after that. We obviously made
[1:36:30] a different concession when we did the
[1:36:32] first resolution to only allow it for
[1:36:34] one year. uh having uh uh the uh
[1:36:37] questions and and presentations prior to
[1:36:40] make allowing it for additional two
[1:36:42] years. We created that. So it it's up to
[1:36:44] councils. It's council's discretion. You
[1:36:46] don't have to put it in for the two
[1:36:48] years. Um uh you don't have to say that.
[1:36:50] It would just be for the two years
[1:36:52] unless you wanted something else. It'll
[1:36:53] be for the additional for the remaining
[1:36:55] two years unless you make another formal
[1:36:57] request. So just to be clear now the
[1:37:02] resolution is for two years.
[1:37:05] >> The res resolution is for the remaining
[1:37:07] » The res resolution is for the remaining
[1:37:07] two years for the temporary use permit
[1:37:09] guess.
[1:37:09] >> Okay. Uh so h how difficult or or would
[1:37:13] » Okay. Uh so h how difficult or or would
[1:37:13] it would it be uh advisable uh to put a
[1:37:17] clause in there that says that uh as a
[1:37:20] council and I guess more importantly as
[1:37:24] a community uh can we um have a revisit
[1:37:29] of this at the end of year year one uh
[1:37:32] provided things are coasting along
[1:37:36] properly and and you know as best as as
[1:37:39] best as can be expected.
[1:37:43] >> That would be council's discretion.
[1:37:46] » That would be council's discretion.
[1:37:46] >> Okay. Uh would that require an amendment
[1:37:49] » Okay. Uh would that require an amendment
[1:37:49] if I if I was to ask for that council?
[1:37:53] >> Yes. You'll need to have someone move
[1:37:55] » Yes. You'll need to have someone move
[1:37:55] and and duly second an amendment, then
[1:37:57] vote on the amendment. If the amendment
[1:37:59] passes, then you'll have to have a
[1:38:00] second vote on the amended motion.
[1:38:03] >> Yeah. Just we just treat it as as an
[1:38:04] » Yeah. Just we just treat it as as an
[1:38:04] amendment. So, is there anyone that's
[1:38:07] will willing to move that or should I?
[1:38:09] Looks like it's me. And and and so I'm
[1:38:11] I'm moving that uh that we put a a
[1:38:14] clause in there that um that at the end
[1:38:17] of year one we we be given the
[1:38:19] opportunity to to sort of not sort of
[1:38:22] just to review this to to make any
[1:38:24] recommendations for keeping the ship
[1:38:27] going straight ahead. I did that. You
[1:38:29] don't put all of that in the resolution,
[1:38:31] but you catch my drift. I need a
[1:38:33] seconder. Councelor Rudenberg. Okay. So,
[1:38:36] >> just sorry.
[1:38:38] » just sorry.
[1:38:38] >> Go ahead, councelor Ranch.
[1:38:39] » Go ahead, councelor Ranch.
[1:38:39] >> A point of order. If we were to pass it
[1:38:41] » A point of order. If we were to pass it
[1:38:41] as it stands, this discussion although
[1:38:44] important, we could have a me meeting to
[1:38:46] discuss things, but it will make no
[1:38:47] difference. It will bring up these
[1:38:49] feelings again that we have in this
[1:38:51] room, which are, I believe,
[1:38:55] more divisive than they actually are
[1:38:57] building a building a community that
[1:38:58] makes a difference. So I I I would
[1:39:01] actually speak against that uh
[1:39:02] amendment.
[1:39:04] >> Okay. Councelor Goule.
[1:39:06] » Okay. Councelor Goule.
[1:39:06] >> Uh thanks u Mr. Chair. Thank you. Um and
[1:39:09] » Uh thanks u Mr. Chair. Thank you. Um and
[1:39:09] I too would probably speak um against
[1:39:12] that amendment. Um I I've been taking
[1:39:14] notes and and just listening, you know,
[1:39:16] and you know, we need to to focus our
[1:39:19] intention on not a short-term solution,
[1:39:22] but how do we get a long-term solution?
[1:39:23] I think if we're mandating things, we're
[1:39:26] going to be in trouble. We're going to
[1:39:27] be back here. any council is going to be
[1:39:29] back at this table um making the same
[1:39:31] decisions, having the same
[1:39:32] conversations. Uh we've been having I've
[1:39:34] been a counselor for four years, eight
[1:39:36] years. We're still having the
[1:39:37] conversations as director Turner said,
[1:39:40] 20 years. These things have been going
[1:39:41] on forever. We're not We have to find a
[1:39:43] a solution here. You know, we have to
[1:39:45] have um clear timelines. We need secure
[1:39:48] funding. We need public consultation. Um
[1:39:51] temporary shelters, I think, um only
[1:39:53] address the needs in the short term. um
[1:39:57] we're going to be open for a year, we're
[1:39:59] going to be open for another year. Um
[1:40:01] and then what we're where we're going to
[1:40:03] be back back at the same table. I just
[1:40:05] think that we need to look at a longterm
[1:40:07] tragedy here and how we do that. I think
[1:40:09] and how we get there for future councils
[1:40:11] and this council is going to be very
[1:40:13] important as we as we look at the
[1:40:15] discussions. You know, I I just want to
[1:40:17] see that we come with a permanent plan
[1:40:19] that has measurable milestones, defines
[1:40:22] accountability, and we do regular public
[1:40:25] updates. I think that will deter um
[1:40:28] what's happening and be able to find a a
[1:40:30] long-term solution. You know, we're
[1:40:33] we're relying on these temporary
[1:40:34] extensions. We're relying on these
[1:40:36] temporary things. And I just don't think
[1:40:38] it's doing a service for anybody until
[1:40:40] we have a long-term something that we
[1:40:42] can actually put our teeth into and
[1:40:44] actually be able to be proud of as we
[1:40:46] move forward with the community. I think
[1:40:48] it's going to take time. I don't think
[1:40:49] it's going to be an overnight solution.
[1:40:51] It's not going to be a yearly solution.
[1:40:53] I think it's going to take time. It's
[1:40:55] going to take a lot of time and
[1:40:56] investment. As I said earlier,
[1:40:58] communication is the key piece. I think
[1:41:00] we're we're biting heads all over the
[1:41:02] place and we're trying to get people at
[1:41:03] the table, but we have all different
[1:41:05] mandates. Everyone has a different
[1:41:06] mandate when they sit at a table and on
[1:41:08] a board of directors. Um I think it's
[1:41:11] time that we just move away from these
[1:41:12] temporary measures and somehow make a
[1:41:15] lasting solution that, you know, our
[1:41:17] vulnerable individuals can um um feel
[1:41:20] safe and our citizens can feel safe at
[1:41:22] the same time. So we have to so we have
[1:41:24] to balance that. So I'm not in favor of
[1:41:26] the one year.
[1:41:27] >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Vic.
[1:41:30] » Okay. Thank you, Councelor Vic.
[1:41:30] >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I'm also of
[1:41:32] » Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I'm also of
[1:41:32] the opinion perhaps we don't need to
[1:41:34] dilute this motion. I think I think we
[1:41:37] have enough information to proceed as
[1:41:38] is. Um to councelor Goule's point, we
[1:41:42] resolved on June 23rd to work towards a
[1:41:45] long-term shelter strategy. We should be
[1:41:48] putting all hands on deck to that end
[1:41:50] and resolving to have a permanent
[1:41:53] solution in our community for long-term
[1:41:55] shelter and having uh temporary
[1:41:58] measures. I think um the the friction
[1:42:02] that we're facing here is does this
[1:42:04] temporary measure could it could it
[1:42:07] cause more harm in that neighborhood in
[1:42:08] this community than it solves? And that
[1:42:12] neighborhood has suffered uh a lot of
[1:42:14] disorder. And the question we're facing
[1:42:17] with is can can it can that community
[1:42:20] can that neighborhood uh take on more?
[1:42:24] And unfortunately, I I don't I I think
[1:42:26] from from the feedback we've been
[1:42:28] receiving, they cannot. There is there's
[1:42:31] a tremendous amount of disorder already.
[1:42:33] And it's just we're at we're at the
[1:42:36] point where it's it's no longer fair to
[1:42:39] that neighborhood. So my view would be
[1:42:42] let's all hands on deck to to form a
[1:42:44] long-term strategy, a long-term shelter
[1:42:47] solution that accommodates a cold
[1:42:49] weather uh cold weather solution.
[1:42:52] >> Uh thank you for that and and and
[1:42:54] » Uh thank you for that and and and
[1:42:54] council. I I I neglected to mention and
[1:42:57] I've got it written right right here in
[1:42:59] capital letters and it says new council
[1:43:01] and that was primarily the reason that
[1:43:05] you know we're making a decision that is
[1:43:07] going to encumber uh the new council for
[1:43:11] a period of well a year and a half and
[1:43:12] and um but I'm I'm willing I'm willing
[1:43:16] to accept that. Uh is there anyone else
[1:43:18] who wants to jump in before I call the
[1:43:20] >> Yes, please.
[1:43:21] » Yes, please.
[1:43:21] >> Go ahead. Councelor Elliott.
[1:43:24] » Go ahead. Councelor Elliott.
[1:43:24] >> Uh, thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Um,
[1:43:27] » Uh, thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Um,
[1:43:27] so as far as long-term, I get it 100%.
[1:43:30] Uh, we've been working on this for
[1:43:31] decades, but there's so much more work
[1:43:34] that has to be done. Um, I'm happy that
[1:43:37] the housing solutions table, which I'm
[1:43:39] chair of, is meeting next week and this
[1:43:42] is uh top of the agenda and and we'll
[1:43:44] continue to to carry this forward.
[1:43:47] But there needs to be a solution for
[1:43:50] this winter coming up in my opinion.
[1:43:54] Okay? Everybody wants long-term. There's
[1:43:56] no doubt about it. But we have to look
[1:43:59] at these individuals in the short term
[1:44:01] as well. We have to be able to keep them
[1:44:04] warm in the winter so that no one dies.
[1:44:07] Okay? This is extremely important to our
[1:44:09] community.
[1:44:11] Everyone deserves to have heat. Everyone
[1:44:14] deserves to have a roof over their head.
[1:44:16] And for us to just say, "Yeah, we need a
[1:44:18] we need a long-term plan." I think
[1:44:19] that's just
[1:44:22] I agree with it. But to just put people
[1:44:25] out on the street when we could be
[1:44:27] keeping them warm is not the right
[1:44:29] answer either.
[1:44:31] We talked about um fear in the community
[1:44:35] of this turning into
[1:44:37] an an alternate shelter in the future.
[1:44:41] Any decision like this has to come to
[1:44:42] council.
[1:44:44] So it's not a given. It's it's nothing
[1:44:46] that has to take place. We're talking
[1:44:48] about a temporary warm shelter and
[1:44:50] cooling for people in need, in desperate
[1:44:53] need, in minus30 weather.
[1:44:56] Come on, people.
[1:44:58] The last thing is, okay, I like you said
[1:45:01] you like the analogy of the mask on.
[1:45:04] Flip that on its head a little bit.
[1:45:07] I've got my heat on.
[1:45:09] I've got a roof over my head. and a lot
[1:45:12] of people don't.
[1:45:15] I think we should be helping the most in
[1:45:17] need in our community and doing the best
[1:45:19] we can and to defer this so that nothing
[1:45:23] takes place next winter.
[1:45:27] I don't think that's the right solution
[1:45:29] at all. Thank you.
[1:45:31] >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Elliot. Uh
[1:45:33] » Okay. Thank you, Councelor Elliot. Uh
[1:45:33] councelor Runge.
[1:45:36] >> Thank you, uh, Councelor Elliott. But
[1:45:38] » Thank you, uh, Councelor Elliott. But
[1:45:38] you know what? In fairness, and it's a
[1:45:41] difficult question, but there are other
[1:45:43] solutions out there. And to just frame
[1:45:45] this as the only solution, I think is
[1:45:48] incorrect.
[1:45:49] If we were to defeat this today, another
[1:45:52] solution could be found. And yes, it
[1:45:55] might be, like I said before, a trailer
[1:45:56] being pulled in somewhere to another
[1:45:58] facility that we already have. We we do
[1:46:01] not have to do this. So, you know, just
[1:46:03] to frame it as we're going to be t
[1:46:06] taking the these uh the roof or the heat
[1:46:10] away from people is actually
[1:46:12] disingenuous cuz that happens every
[1:46:14] single day of the year. And you know
[1:46:16] what? Our community, as much as we would
[1:46:18] love to, actually doesn't have a
[1:46:20] solution for it yet.
[1:46:23] >> Okay. Thank you for if you mind,
[1:46:25] » Okay. Thank you for if you mind,
[1:46:26] >> if you don't mind.
[1:46:26] » if you don't mind.
[1:46:26] >> Yeah, go ahead, please.
[1:46:29] » Yeah, go ahead, please.
[1:46:29] >> Okay. Thank you, councelor Ranch. So,
[1:46:31] » Okay. Thank you, councelor Ranch. So,
[1:46:31] pulling a trailer, a great idea. Where
[1:46:34] would you put it? I'll wait.
[1:46:39] We have a solution now. I think it's on
[1:46:42] us to be courageous and to move forward
[1:46:44] with this.
[1:46:49] » The questions to you, councelor R.
[1:46:50] >> Do you want me to respond to where I
[1:46:52] » Do you want me to respond to where I
[1:46:52] think I would go?
[1:46:54] >> This is not getting us anywhere.
[1:46:55] » This is not getting us anywhere.
[1:46:55] >> It's not going to get us anywhere right
[1:46:56] » It's not going to get us anywhere right
[1:46:56] now. So, I think we should go to the
[1:46:58] vote. Thank you.
[1:46:59] >> Okay. We're going to we're getting close
[1:47:01] » Okay. We're going to we're getting close
[1:47:01] to
[1:47:02] >> Mr. Mayor.
[1:47:03] » Mr. Mayor.
[1:47:03] >> Oh, sorry. Go ahead, city manager.
[1:47:05] » Oh, sorry. Go ahead, city manager.
[1:47:05] >> I just want to clarify. So, the
[1:47:06] » I just want to clarify. So, the
[1:47:06] amendment that's been moved and seconded
[1:47:08] is to is to approve it only for one
[1:47:11] year. Correct.
[1:47:12] >> Negative.
[1:47:14] » Negative.
[1:47:14] >> It was to approve it for two years with
[1:47:16] » It was to approve it for two years with
[1:47:16] a with an opportunity to not pause it,
[1:47:19] but to review it. And I guess I guess in
[1:47:22] in in retrospect, I mean, we re we would
[1:47:25] be reviewing this all the way along, but
[1:47:28] what I was proposing would be that there
[1:47:30] would be an opera a date at which we
[1:47:33] could say something or do something
[1:47:35] rather than, you know, sporadically
[1:47:38] throughout the term of the 2-year lease.
[1:47:40] >> Yeah. Okay. So, so to clarify then, my
[1:47:42] » Yeah. Okay. So, so to clarify then, my
[1:47:42] understanding is the amendment on the
[1:47:44] floor is still to do a 2-year
[1:47:47] approval with a chance for this to come
[1:47:49] back to council at the end of the next
[1:47:51] season for to weigh in on success
[1:47:54] similar to what happened this past year.
[1:47:57] Yes, that that was the gist of the
[1:47:59] resolution and I'm going to call a qu
[1:48:01] I'm going to in a moment call the
[1:48:03] question on the uh on the motion to to
[1:48:06] amend and it's it's abundantly obvious
[1:48:08] how that's going to turn out but but I
[1:48:10] have a after we deal with that I I have
[1:48:13] a couple of other comments to make
[1:48:15] before be before we call the question on
[1:48:18] the main motion. So seeing no more on
[1:48:22] the amendment. Uh so all in favor of the
[1:48:26] amendment.
[1:48:30] All all opposed.
[1:48:32] Unanimously opposed. I know how to read
[1:48:35] a book. So
[1:48:37] >> not unanimously. No. I think that that
[1:48:39] » not unanimously. No. I think that that
[1:48:39] was a a four to two if I have it correct
[1:48:42] because you abstained from voting. Mr.
[1:48:44] Mayor.
[1:48:45] >> Uh no.
[1:48:46] » Uh no.
[1:48:46] >> You voted in favor of the amendment. I I
[1:48:48] » You voted in favor of the amendment. I I
[1:48:48] vote actually I voted against the
[1:48:50] amendment.
[1:48:51] >> Got it. Okay.
[1:48:52] » Got it. Okay.
[1:48:52] >> Okay.
[1:48:54] » Okay.
[1:48:54] >> I vote in favor of the amendment.
[1:48:57] » I vote in favor of the amendment.
[1:48:57] >> So that's a that's a 5 to2 defeat.
[1:49:00] » So that's a that's a 5 to2 defeat.
[1:49:00] >> Okay. We'll we'll put it down down at
[1:49:02] » Okay. We'll we'll put it down down at
[1:49:02] that. Um before I go ahead uh and call
[1:49:06] the question, um I I'd like to put it on
[1:49:11] the floor and I'm not going to make a
[1:49:13] motion here, but I I would prefer to
[1:49:18] defer decision
[1:49:20] until next Tuesday's council meeting.
[1:49:22] That's only 7 days down the road. uh
[1:49:25] that would be at the meeting of July the
[1:49:27] 20th in order to allow the opportunity
[1:49:31] for further public input generated by
[1:49:34] the obvious coverage and awareness
[1:49:37] that's going to emerge from this
[1:49:39] meeting. I I think that there's a a
[1:49:42] gallery here that is fairly united in in
[1:49:47] approving uh the proposal, but I don't
[1:49:51] think that there's a real representation
[1:49:54] uh or at least not such a significant uh
[1:49:57] representation
[1:49:59] from people that are opposed. And uh if
[1:50:03] I can be completely candid uh and this
[1:50:07] is just my personal feeling that there
[1:50:09] seems to be um a sort of a built-in
[1:50:13] network of approval but there isn't a
[1:50:15] reciprocal network of opposition. I'd
[1:50:19] just like to hear any comments on that.
[1:50:21] Councelor Rudenberg.
[1:50:23] >> So as the chair I think um it you should
[1:50:26] » So as the chair I think um it you should
[1:50:26] not be making those kind of assumptions
[1:50:28] as the chair about what their network is
[1:50:31] and isn't. um whether I agree this
[1:50:34] should be postponed to next week. I
[1:50:36] don't see how it's going to change some
[1:50:38] of the the uh comments that have been
[1:50:41] made. Um but I I don't think you should
[1:50:44] be making that assumption that somebody
[1:50:46] didn't get their ducks in a row to come
[1:50:48] here and make their thoughts known. Just
[1:50:51] as as the chair, I don't think that's
[1:50:53] appropriate.
[1:50:53] >> Well, well, I accept that, but um we'll
[1:50:56] » Well, well, I accept that, but um we'll
[1:50:56] see. We'll see see how it shakes out at
[1:50:58] the end of the day. And um this really
[1:51:02] has nothing to do with in fact well I'll
[1:51:04] I'll bring up this other option outside
[1:51:07] of the uh the motion that we're going to
[1:51:09] vote on. Are we are we ready to for me
[1:51:12] to call question on the resolution?
[1:51:16] >> Yes. Okay. Are we all in favor of the
[1:51:20] » Yes. Okay. Are we all in favor of the
[1:51:20] resolution? Hands up.
[1:51:24] I see one two
[1:51:27] >> Oh, I see two. opposed to the
[1:51:30] » Oh, I see two. opposed to the
[1:51:30] resolution.
[1:51:33] Okay, that is that is defeated.
[1:51:36] So, um
[1:51:40] so we have that as a matter of record
[1:51:42] and and finally um I have I have another
[1:51:46] idea here uh that I'd like to pursue and
[1:51:49] I think that this um uh can can come to
[1:51:54] come to being. I'd like to see some kind
[1:51:56] of an online portal and a hard copy drop
[1:52:01] off box for people to leave questions,
[1:52:03] concerns, recommendations, beefs,
[1:52:05] bouquets, etc. Uh that wouldn't wouldn't
[1:52:09] only come to the city, but would would
[1:52:11] come to the city BC housing, school
[1:52:13] board, and shelter support society. In
[1:52:15] other words, all of the the major
[1:52:17] stakeholders that that are involved in
[1:52:19] this. And I'm not I'm not putting that
[1:52:21] out out there as a as a a motion, but
[1:52:24] that's some that's some direction that
[1:52:25] I'd like to see. Tanya, did you you look
[1:52:28] like you had a Okay. a comment or a
[1:52:30] question.
[1:52:32] Okay. Is there anything further for the
[1:52:35] uh for the business of council tonight
[1:52:38] before I call for a motion to adjourn?
[1:52:41] Am I missing anything?
[1:52:43] Okay. Motion to adjurnn then, please.
[1:52:46] Moved by councelor McKelie, seconded by
[1:52:48] councelor Vic. Are we all in favor?
[1:52:51] Opposed? Carried. Thank you everyone.