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Good evening. Um, thank you for coming to the 
um, June 22nd um, oversight committee hearing  

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um, at 6 o'clock. I'm going to read the open 
meeting law. Um, pursuant to the open meeting law,  

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any person may make an audio or video recording 
of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting  

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through any medium. Attendees are therefore 
advised that such recordings or transmissions  

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are being made whether perceived or unpersceived 
by those present and are deemed acknowledgeable  

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and permissible. We'll take the role. Councelor 
Ash. Council Deon present. Council Hubley.  

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Council Mahoney. Present. Council McKe present. 
Council Riley present. Council Ryan. Council  

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Yuan. Chairman Jacobs. Present. Members. You have 
a quum. Very good. Uh tonight at tonight's meeting  

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um we're going to be addressing um 2026 uh-056 
resolve on the Council of Aging uh department  

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head theft and federal charges uh 2026-100. Order 
uh Quinsey Housing Authority Board appointment  

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process review in 2026 101 resolve of the Quinsey 
Housing Authority Board tenant representation. So  

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at this time I'm going to uh turn it over 
to uh Mr. Walker uh to say a few words.  

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Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good evening, 
councilors. Uh thank you for the opportunity for  

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the administration to outline its response to the 
theft and sub subsequent criminal investigation  

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uh from the department head of the elder former 
department head of the elder services department  

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responsive to this body's resolution earlier this 
year. We have a number of team members who have  

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been working on this matter for some time with 
us tonight to provide a brief overview of the  

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timeline of events, the city's response and remedi 
remedial actions that were taken. You will hear  

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from the police chief Kennedy to talk about the 
investigation itself, municipal finance director  

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Paul Delbaba to go over the review processes and 
treasure collector Marley Smith to review cash  

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handling policies and changes that were made. 
Uh we also have with us solicitor Jim Timonss  

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and to answer any legal questions and purchasing 
agent Kathleen Logan relative to any procurement  

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questions. Um the mayor uh and his team took this 
matter extremely seriously, responded immediately  

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and conducted a robust, responsible review. 
I want to stress that ultimately at its core,  

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this is a case of an individual perpetrating 
a fraud on the city and its people.  

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It was about this individual manipulating 
the system and manipulating the people and  

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manipulating people to achieve that fraud, not 
a systemic breakdown in the system itself. That  

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however does not mean there are not things we 
cannot do better. And this unfortunate matter  

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was used to improve those sets of processes. 
Before I hand it over to the police chief,  

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I would just start the timeline myself 
um that this matter came to the mayor's  

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attention April 2024 upon the reports uh hearing 
some troubling information from a staff member at  

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the council on aging department. I met with 
that council on aging department employee  

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uh once. we established um that she that the 
employee would be uh protected that there was  

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nothing to worry about and that we needed to 
understand the information. Um subsequent to  

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that on a second meeting on I believe it was 
April 18th all of the full documentation was  

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provided by this employee. Uh upon receiving that 
information I immediately spoke to Mayor Ko. Mayor  

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Ko this was now after hours. My memory serves 
me right. It was probably 8:00 or 9 8 or 9 in  

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the evening. Mayor Ko immediately directed me to 
contact the police chief and the city solicitor  

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uh to evaluate the next steps. Uh with that, 
I'll leave the timeline to Chief Kennedy.

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Good evening, counselors. Uh as Mr. Walker stated, 
um on the evening of April 18th, 2024, I did  

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receive a call from Mr. Walker uh informing me 
that um my presence was requested in the mayor's  

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office with uh several other um members of um the 
mayor's team. Um I didn't really understand what  

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was happening at the time, but um I was informed 
that there were some allegations of potential um  

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financial malfeasants that came to light earlier 
that day and uh he wanted to talk to me about it.  

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Uh so we went in, we met, I believe uh Mr. Walker, 
Mayor Ko, Solicitor Timonss, and possibly Helen  

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Murphy. I'm not 100% sure on that, but definitely 
uh Mr. Walker, Mayor Ko, and Solicitor Timonss. Um  

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uh upon hearing the allegations, I immediately 
spoke with our detective Lieutenant um who's in  

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charge of uh Bureau of Criminal Investigations 
and one of our detectives who uh specializes in  

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financial crimes. that night uh on the night of 
the 18th. The plan was also put into place that  

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Mr. Timonss uh drafted um in order that we were 
going to serve to Mr. Clasby the next morning  

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when he arrived for work. Uh so on the morning 
of the 19th um around 8:00 a.m. We had detectives  

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sitting outside of the Kennedy Center. Um when 
uh Mr. Clasby arrived for work, uh we went in,  

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I met him in his office, I served him with the 
letter that he was being uh put out on leave.  

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uh pending the results of of our investigation. 
That was uh the morning of April 19th. Um and then  

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uh our detectives really started working the case 
and over the course of the next couple weeks they  

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gathered evidence um and uh we ended up um uh the 
um FBI and the US attorney's office reached out  

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and asked if we would um work the case with them 
as it may have some uh federal implications. We  

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met with uh our federal partners on May 14th 
and we agreed at that point to work with them  

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um as there were some um uh you know potential 
mail fraud, wire fraud and uh inter interstate  

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transportation of stolen property that we had 
already uh uncovered. Um so at that point really  

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we started working it with our federal partners. 
Um, we gathered enough evidence that on May 17th,  

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the mayor did um serve Mr. Clasby, a letter 
removing him from his uh position. And um on  

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uh January 8th, 2025, uh as I said, uh 
Mr. Clasby was formally indicted by the US  

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Attorney's Office for embezzlement, mail fraud, 
wire fraud, and inter interstate transportation  

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of stolen property. So that's really um the rough 
timeline of what happened. Uh the Quincsey Police  

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Detective Division was actively working with 
our federal partners during the entire uh length  

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of the investigation. Um and um I think they 
they left no stone unturned. So uh with that,  

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that's basically just a brief. I'd like to 
turn it over to Mr. Deaba from municipal  

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finance and then I believe afterwards we 
could answer any questions you might have.

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Good evening, councils. Um, I'm going 
to talk about the approval process on  

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um how departments enter in requisitions into our 
system, how they get approved, and how it flows  

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through the system. Um, it it's not different now 
than it was back then. Um, but this is this is how  

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the requisition process works. Um, first of all, 
a requisition is not a purchase order. doesn't  

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give any approval to spend money right away. It's 
just a requisition for an amount and for a vendor.  

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Um it is the however it is the beginning of the 
process of creating a purchase order and it will  

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incumber funds uh within specific organ objects 
uh within a fund or a department to be used for  

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specific purposes as um as stated. So the process 
begins by a clerk will first enter the requisition  

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into Munis. That requisition that request is then 
approved by the department head at the department  

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head level. Once approved at the department 
level by the department head, it is submitted  

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to municipal finance for our review where we see 
it. Uh we'll see the vendor, the amount, uh the  

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accounts. we verify that there's funds there 
uh to create that requisition and that's when  

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it gets our approval specifically my approval. 
So upon that that approval the once I approve  

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it mun right along the system to the purchasing 
department and they'll have the final review of  

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the vendor the procurement the dollar amounts with 
the 30b law and so forth. Um once that's approved,  

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purchasing will create a purchase order and 
they'll send one copy of that purchase order  

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to the vendor and one purchase one copy of that 
will go to the department that requested that so  

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they know that that money has now been encumbered 
for that expense with that vendor. Now to pay an  

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invoice against a purchase order, a clerk will 
enter the invoice information and purchase number  

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into munis. The clerk then sends that original 
invoice to municipal finance. Municipal finance  

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will retain that with a copy um of the check, the 
purchase order for auditing purposes and invoice  

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verification. uh for invoice verification includes 
uh reviewing the amount of the expenditure and  

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matching that with the check uh and the invoice 
uh it's you it includes reviewing vendor remitt  

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remittance addresses vendor names etc. So 
once that's all confirmed um it once again  

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the department head after this process then 
needs to go in and approve that expenditure.  

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So at different levels multiple people are looking 
as at this as it flows through the system. Um so  

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once the department head approves the payment of 
the invoice MUN in Munice, it'll be cluded on the  

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city warrant and then paid out. Um so that that 
really concludes the approval process, the review  

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of each requisition that gets put into the system. 
Um with that I'll turn it over to Treasurer Smith.

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Thank you. Hi counselors. Thank you for having 
me. Um, so maybe I'll pick it back up on the  

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timeline. Um, so on April 19th, I was made aware 
of an allegation of financial misconduct at the  

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senior center. Over that weekend, I worked with 
chief of staff and the CFO at the time to execute  

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a response plan. I secured a city laptop and 
worked with someone on my staff to physically  

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be at the senior center for the duration of the 
investigation. I worked with local and federal  

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investigators to supply documentation as well 
as worked with our forensic auditor auditor to  

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try and determine the scale and scope of the 
issue. I was physically on site for the first  

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week and then someone from my team was there for 
approximately 5 weeks while Quinsey police did  

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their investigation. Throughout the evidence that 
was collected and almost 100 100 turnover sheets  

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that were scanned and sent in to investigators, 
we determined that checks were being turned over  

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to the treasurer's office, but cash was not. The 
Division of Local Services created a financial  

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policy manual for the town of Sterling that I 
found in some of my research and they outlined  

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the best practices for senior center operations. 
The senior center in Quinsey was following all  

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of those best practices to a tea. This was 
not a breakdown in policies and procedures.  

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This was pure theft by a bad actor. But 
I think what this did do was highlight  

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where we can be better. And as such, my office 
created the city's revenue turnover policies,  

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which we posted to our website in October 
of 2024. And I believe Mr. Walker sent those  

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um around to this body, but they're also posted 
on our city website. Some key highlights included  

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adding a cash inoff threshold of $500, at least 
weekly deposits, and the creation of departmental  

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policies that sit underneath the citywide 
policy, which are required to be on file  

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with my office. We also implemented the creation 
of an annual on-site audit in which myself and  

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two members of my staff physically go to visit 
each department that accepts any form of revenue.  

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We have a checklist of items um that I believe 
you guys all received as well um that my staff  

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and myself will go through and we take this as an 
opportunity to physically see the department space  

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where cash and checks are stored and to speak to 
the staff that's working um with any payments. So  

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we're now on the second year of annual onsites. 
And again um the schedule was sent around. So  

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everybody should have a schedule of the dates that 
we um have seen everybody for the first round. and  

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now we're on our second round. Um, and I'd say 
overall they're going really well. So, I think  

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the silver lining of all this is we've really 
taken this as an opportunity to help departments  

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streamline some of their revenue capabilities. 
So, I keep using the school department as a good  

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case study, but we've been working with their 
business manager. We installed a local mobile  

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deposit check scanner and a cash counting machine. 
So, instead of that individual counting out 3,000  

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$1 bills for maybe like a school field trip, she 
can simply put them through the cash machine. So,  

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it's just one example, but it's really been 
and and I'm not this is it's it's genuinely  

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been really nice to go see every department, 
see the great work that they're doing um and  

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where we can be helpful. We're the we're in the 
weeds on on cash and finances every day. And so,  

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we've really taken this as an opportunity to help 
other departments um and and kind of figure out  

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streamlining. So, with that, I'm happy to 
answer any questions. I know the cash piece  

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was the big the big headline piece, so I'm happy 
to answer any questions that you guys might have.

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All right. See you.

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Uh, thank you so much, Miss Smith. Um, I just 
want to, um, open this up for questions from  

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any of my colleagues on the council if they have 
any questions for Miss Molly Smith in regards to  

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this. Uh, Councelor Riley, Loans. Thank you. Um, 
you folks did answer some of the questions I have  

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here, so I'm going to jump around a little bit and 
I don't know who can answer best, but so does the  

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city have a written fraud policy in place, not 
just a cash management policy, but a a fraud a  

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more comprehensive fraud policy? So, I think a lot 
of what we do is governed by mass general law. And  

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so, Mass General law governs invoicing, right? 
And I'm going to speak for my colleagues here.  

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Mass General law is going to govern procurement. 
It's going to govern invoicing. So a lot of that  

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is already captured by mass general law. So is 
there is no fra written fraud policy? I mean I I  

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think of fraud as being a little bit more broader. 
Um you know fraud can be time theft, lararseny,  

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credit card and purchasing abuse and then external 
crimes like fishing, cyber theft. We certainly saw  

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that with the with the uh pension system. So does 
anyone else want to say whether or not there is  

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a written fraud policy in place? through you, m 
Mr. Chairman, I would I would just reiterate what  

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uh Treasurer Smith said that, you know, some 
things are so self-evident that they don't  

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require policy manuals, um it's standard practice, 
that you don't commit fraud, um that you don't uh  

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misspend city money, that you don't steal. Um, so 
to the extent that there that there would be a a  

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there would just wouldn't be a written policy, 
there's not a a written policy, and I don't mean  

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this on flip council. I appreciate the question, 
but you know, there's no written policy against,  

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uh, theft, um, blanket theft. Um, it's just 
part of the nature of doing business in a  

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in a prudent and efficient and and legal way. Um, 
and just reiterate what Treasurer Smith said that  

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uh all of our actions are governed by mass general 
laws. All of our procedures are governed by mass  

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general laws and we're also audited uh every 
single year uh to find uh to look at operations  

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and how we op and what mechanisms are in place 
and what needs to potentially change. So no,  

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there is no formal written fraud policy because 
fraud is fraud. Well, the Office of Inspector  

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General recommends that municipalities have a 
more written formal policy. So, I guess the answer  

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simple answer to that question is no. Um, relative 
to the treasurer's policy, there was reference to  

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the Munice accounts um being the responsibility 
to the department heads to ensure that they're  

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actually recorded into the correct general ledger 
account. Um, but doesn't this create vulnerability  

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if the department head is the one responsible 
for it? In this particular case, would not have  

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we would not have found that. Yeah, it seems a 
lot of the policy falls uh in the in the purview  

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and responsibility of the department head which in 
in this particular example would not have provided  

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the kind of assurance that that there was checks 
and balances there. Yeah, I think my intention on  

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on putting that in the policy, someone should be 
checking us as well. So, so someone should also be  

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checking the checker and and so if the department 
head is turning over money to me, I need to I'm  

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saying I'm putting it into your munis account and 
I want to make sure that people are also verifying  

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what I'm doing and my team is doing. So, so this 
should be mutually um people should be mutually  

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checking each other's work. So, I think in all of 
these things, what we realized is it it behooves  

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everybody to to be double-checking and making 
sure the money is being posted into the correct  

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MUN account that our bank reconciliations are 
being reflected on what's in the mun account. So,  

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that was my intention on putting that in the 
policy. Thank you. Thank you for that. Um,  

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have you had any unannounced site reviews or 
they all been announced? Um, so they've all been  

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announced. I think the first year I think people 
Nobody likes to these have been very um awkward  

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is not the right word because people I'm walking 
into these department onsites and and I've been  

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really impressed with the reconciliations with the 
financial management that all these departments  

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are doing. I think the first year people are on 
edge. I think nobody wants um no one wants to have  

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me walking into their office saying are you doing 
anything wrong and so people have been really open  

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to showing what they're working on. Um, so the 
first year I thought it would be a little unfair  

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to do an unannounced visit. We have been I mean 
every turnover sheet that comes into my department  

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is being scrutinized pretty extensively. My team 
any turnover sheet that's incorrect is going back  

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to the department with an email to myself and 
the department head. So my intention is that  

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um that over time there's maybe no errors that are 
coming through. Um but no. Okay. I I understand.  

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And it seems like you've got a second round coming 
through so you might We've already started one.  

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Um, so has the city implemented a confidential 
speak up or whistleblower policy and reporting  

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mechanisms? It was reported that that would be 
something that would be coming through you uh,  

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Mr. Chairman. Not at this point not a formal 
policy. Um, I I' hearken back a little bit  

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to my initial answer. I think that's certainly a 
possibility. Um, and we've taken a look at it. Um  

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but emphasizing that first point he made relative 
to the first policy is that uh whistleblowers are  

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always protected. They're protected under state 
law. They're protected under federal law. Um  

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they're protected by their their position within 
uh collective bargaining unit for the most part.  

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Um and part of our process was to emphasize to 
talk to the department heads and um get more of a  

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sense of what they felt would would be appropriate 
and where they're um whether or not that that  

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would be an additional step that was necessary 
or it's one of those things that um may be uh  

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more assumed and part of the normal day-to-day 
operation of doing business. Um I would say it's  

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something that's still on the table. Uh but based 
on the the case just closed uh at the end of last  

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week, I know we'll be taking another look at it. 
Okay. Thank you. Um the Go ahead. I I can take  

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a break if you want. Is that okay? Um the report 
identified 262 transactions totaling $329,148,000

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versus the 36,000 that Mr. Clasby plead guilty 
to um including work for a non-existent business.  

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Celtic safety consultants, cleaning companies 
who perform work on non- city buildings,  

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excessive vehicle repair and towing from 
Schlagger's towing, sometimes multiple charges  

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per day. Have these vendors been barred from doing 
business in the city or what other steps have been  

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taken to verify businesses and charges going 
forward? I'm not sure. So, I'm happy to answer  

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it. I um Paul fortunately or unfortunately was 
not here for most of it. I don't believe any of  

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them have been barred. A lot of them didn't know 
they were doing fraudulent business. that business  

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for sure is fake. So, and that I believe is what 
um they got him on for the the federal charges.  

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Um I believe that's the um transportation what's 
the the transportation charge um crossing federal  

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lines. But all the other vendors, my understanding 
through the investigation um was that they were  

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largely unaware that they were also being duped. 
Well, how how could they be unaware that they  

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weren't cleaning a municipal building? Oh, I can't 
speak to the cleaning one, but if I mean, I think  

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the senior center has many vehicles. Um, and so 
I don't know if they were aware which vehicle  

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they were towing. Okay, thank you. Um, if not for 
the brave actions of one or more whistleblowers,  

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this fraud would likely have continued. Um, again, 
I've already asked once, but I I think it would  

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behoove of us to have more uh robust policies for 
reporting suspected fraud, waste, and abuse and to  

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review those policies regularly. Um, does the city 
implement any mand mandatory fraud training? So,  

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again, I'll take this one just on behalf of the 
group. Um, so the state does require that we take  

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mandatory training, state ethics training. 
Ethics training isn't fraud training though.  

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fraud training would be through OIG. I don't 
believe the OIG requires that we take mandatory  

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training. I guess the question is why wouldn't we 
encourage it just because it's not mandatory. Um  

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the other question I'm and I'll leave this is my 
last one. I know Mr. Delibara, you've mentioned  

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to me about the functionality in Munis to be able 
to attach invoices and track everything, you know,  

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straight through the system electronically. It 
does seem like there is an awful lot of paper  

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in this city. Uh, and currently only Quinsey 
Fire Department does that. Is that correct?

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Yes, that's correct. Where the entire process, the 
purchase order uh the and the invoice are attached  

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with the uh copy of the check. Um the fire 
department's doing that. We've discussed rolling  

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it out citywide. Uh it makes things just more 
efficient. Everything's right at your fingertips.  

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You want some information, you can pull it right 
up. It helps us with our independent auditors when  

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they come uh and want to look at an invoice. Uh so 
it is something that's on the radar. So we had run  

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into that recently with the community preservation 
um correct check that I wanted. So what would it  

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take to implement that? would seem to me that 
that would be an important um initiative to  

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to implement sooner rather than later. At least 
start to roll some of these departments in that  

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that are capable of of handling that. The paper 
is, you know, not an ideal situation. Well, paper  

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can be altered and lost, right? An electronic 
record is an electronic record that's preserved  

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as is forever. The auditors prefer to have 
electronic record versus paper. And um you know,  

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I would too. I wasn't here when my predecessors 
started, you know, kicking the tires on a plan  

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like this. But from what I understand, it would 
be no more than, you know, having some scanners,  

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having some training, maybe some cost to 
implement uh this program with um a third party  

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consultant who's done it before in other municip 
municipalities. So, I think there would be some  

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cost um involved in it, but I don't think it would 
be a tremendous cost. Well, well, we we'll maybe  

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have you revisit that at a future date. It seems 
like it would be important, and I I know you're  

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on board with trying to make that happen. So, 
thank you, Mr. Delibra. You're welcome. Thank you.

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00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:08,400
Um, Council McKe, you so um I'd like to understand 
a little bit more about the revenues that come  

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into the city. So, I know there's various sources. 
Most of it, our money we make through taxes, but  

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um there are some fees. Um I guess I'm 
surprised that no one noticed a gradual  

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decline of revenues coming in from the senior 
center to the point where it went to zero  

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um and seemed to stay at zero for for a few years. 
Um what what kind of oversight exists there and  

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00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:42,320
how can we improve that? So just as a point of 
clarity, the revenue was not zero. So revenue  

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was still coming to us. So if you were at the 
senior center and you submitted a check to them,  

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a personal check, that was still coming to us. Um 
I think CO had a lot to do with it. So after CO,  

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um I don't think it was clear what the new flows 
were and what the new world looked like at the  

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senior center. So I think that was really um a big 
factor. Okay. Um but this was happening be before  

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00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:18,240
co too right? So presumably the amount of cash was 
going down uh relative to things over time even  

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before co so I started here in 2022 in this role 
um but it's hard to man so I wouldn't necessarily  

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be aware of our less seniors taking yoga um so 
I think if if revenue is coming in and I think  

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that's where these on-site visits are great 
for us to kind of wrap our heads around what's  

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happening in each department. So if if the senior 
center made a policy saying all classes are free,  

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we're not going to charge anymore. Um I wouldn't 
necessarily be aware of that. So that could  

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explain the revenue. I equate this a lot. Um 
so Treasury is a is a bank. And so how I would  

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00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:08,720
explain this to the lay person is if you got laid 
off, Bank of America would not call you and say,  

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00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:13,120
"Is everything okay? I noticed you're not getting 
direct deposit anymore. So, it's the same thing  

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00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:17,520
here. So, Treasury would not necessarily call 
and say, "Oh, I've noticed that you've had a  

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decrease in revenue. What's going on?" I think 
through CO um through changes in programming,  

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revenue can change a lot. I'd also highlight 
this is a really immaterial amount of money  

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to the broader city organization. And so, I think 
over time it's just enough to fly under the radar.  

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I think it would be helpful if we thought um about 
how to track that over time. I'm sure we have data  

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um you know, historic data going back. Um before I 
took office, I took an I think I probably learned  

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about this from councelor Riley. I took a fraud 
class through the inspector general's office,  

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00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:05,520
like a Zoom class. Um, I wish I'd looked at 
my notes before tonight, but I remember them  

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00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,880
saying that there were certain things that 
over time you could implement um gradually  

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to try to reduce reduce all these opportunities 
for fraud. So, one thing seems like um you know,  

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just having a sense of what money is coming into 
the city and then if you see a blip in that,  

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00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:31,120
it seems like it would be smart to to for someone 
to be monitoring that and then looking into it.  

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00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:36,480
Maybe it's explainable and maybe it's not, but we 
could catch these kinds of things at an earlier  

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00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:47,440
point. Um the other question that I have is about 
um purchase orders. So, um I guess there's no no  

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00:29:47,440 --> 00:30:00,080
one who's like kind of overseeing whether purchase 
order is needed or used. Um I can answer that.  

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Um a purchase order is always going to be needed 
because that's how we pay in the city. So we pay  

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through munis which generates a purchase order. 
So a purchase order is always going to be needed.  

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00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:18,000
I guess I mean like the service that it's there 
for. So some of these were totally fraudulent  

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00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:24,160
um madeup services. If I could um and it seems 
like a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking  

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00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:30,640
here and somewhat of victim shaming as well. We 
were all you know just a surprise that this went  

287
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:40,080
on as all of you. Um to say that that Celtic uh 
safety consultants council Riley that was clearly  

288
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:46,880
fraudulent. Um, at the time that this was going 
on, we had a W9 from him and my coworker actually  

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00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:52,720
checked the Secretary of State's office in New 
York and he was registered as a company. Okay. So,  

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00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:58,000
we did do our due diligence as we always do. 
Nothing was done differently here. And again,  

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00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:04,640
just because someone manipulates a system and 
breaks the law, that doesn't mean we're all  

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00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:10,720
implicated and in on it. No, I didn't mean to 
imply you're in on it. I'm just thinking about  

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00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:19,360
the I know some other councils have just the the 
systems in place. Um it seems like um maybe having  

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00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:26,560
Do you have a question? Council president. All 
right, Miss Logan. Yes, Miss McHugh is speaking  

295
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,440
and council the council president's making faces 
and I didn't know she had a question. Miss Logan,  

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00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:38,800
please stop. Thank you. No, don't don't tell 
me to stop counselor please. Respectfully.  

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00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:54,240
Excuse me. No, I'm good. I'm good. Go ahead. 
Um Okay, maybe I'll just um I'll move on. Um

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00:31:54,240 --> 00:32:05,440
yeah. Um I guess I have a question about the some 
of what I've read in um this isn't this isn't for  

299
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:12,720
you. I'm not sure who this is for, but um some 
of what I've read has concerned me about the the  

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00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:23,680
sense that um what was reported that the employees 
didn't like knew that he was sort of untouchable  

301
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:33,040
um because of his connection to the mayor. 
And so I know that um we say we don't have  

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00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:40,240
a whistleblower policy. Um, but it concern it 
concerns me that we don't have a W whistleblower  

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00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:46,000
policy when it seems like this is this is an 
actual issue where people were concerned about  

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00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:51,520
that. And I and speaking just personally from 
my my experience in six months in the council  

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00:32:51,520 --> 00:33:03,120
asking questions of this administration has not 
been wellreceived. though I can imagine that

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Catherine.

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00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,440
Okay. All right.

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00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:24,800
We're going to go into recess. Thank you.

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00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:10,000
All right. Sorry about that. Uh, we're back 
from our recess. Um, thank you, Mr. Walker,  

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00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:16,080
for handling that. I want to continue the answer 
of that question. Thank you. Sure. Through you,  

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00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:21,760
Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the question, 
counselor, and it the perception uh has  

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00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:28,160
been uh very troubling to the administration 
as well. Uh I think uh over the course of the  

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00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:34,160
last several weeks, in the course of the last 
several months, this body has seen uh the way  

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00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:43,280
our departments operate in uh a general sense, in 
a larger sense, how well they work uh with with  

315
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:50,640
you folks, how the well they work in their jobs in 
particular. Uh it was troubling to hear that there  

316
00:34:50,640 --> 00:35:02,000
would be some perception that somehow a employee 
was being told that someone was untouchable. Um,  

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00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:09,760
we have uh the mayor has a record in this city uh 
that goes back close to 20 years now uh under no  

318
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:20,080
circumstances uh has his integrity uh his honesty 
um in anything like that sort of thing um come to  

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00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:26,720
light. And I would I would sort of point out that 
ultimately this person did come forward uh and it  

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00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:35,440
is the reason why this um theft was stopped and 
identified. So ultimately the system the system  

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00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:43,040
worked. Uh this person was not uh intimidated to 
come forward. Uh this person was not afraid to go  

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00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:48,400
to the appropriate folks and explain to them what 
they thought was going on. And this person was  

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00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:54,480
confident uh that they had the ear ultimately of 
the mayor and of myself uh that all of this would  

324
00:35:54,480 --> 00:36:00,800
end up going in the right direction. And that's 
that's what happened. As unfortunate as it is,  

325
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:09,200
the system ultimately worked. Now taking the 
point on a clear defined whistleblower policy,  

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00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:14,000
again I said that, you know, whistleblowers 
are protected. We feel they are protected. We  

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00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,760
are comfortable with our department heads. We've 
had these discussions with our department heads.  

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00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,880
Under no circumstances should any employee 
feel like they can't approach their boss,  

329
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:28,320
they can't approach their boss's boss about 
something inappropriate that they've seen. That  

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00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:35,520
is not the way we've operated. Um, and I certainly 
appreciate the question, but I I I I think in  

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00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:43,360
the end uh the system uh worked the way it it 
needed to work uh and the right thing was done.

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00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:56,320
I believe there was a a report um stating that the 
the issue stretched back to at least 2014 when the  

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00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:06,000
um Mr. Clasby requested money to pay I believe a 
car payment. And so um it sounds like people were  

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00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:14,160
maybe nervous to come forward for um 10 years at 
least. Um, and maybe it just got so bad that it it  

335
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:22,640
became like, you know, they just felt important to 
to bring forward. But, um, it does seem like it's  

336
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:30,080
it's an issue whether or not it's um, you know, 
for good reason. It it seems to be a perception.  

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00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:40,640
Um, I guess I have a question about the um the 
FBI and the um US attorney's office um for Chief  

338
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:49,520
Kennedy. You mentioned that they um joined 
the effort they reached out to the city. Um  

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00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:57,280
I'm not I'm not sure at what point after the 
April 19th meeting. Um maybe in May. I'm not  

340
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:03,120
sure what whether I wrote that down right, 
but um how did they find out about it? So,  

341
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:08,880
it wasn't that the city reached out to them. 
How did they get alerted to this? Yeah. So,  

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00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:14,640
uh we do have a detective who's assigned to 
an FBI uh task force. Um, so I believe it  

343
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,840
was right after I I can't give you the the exact 
date, but right after it hit the the media, um,  

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00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:25,600
this U task force officer, detective reached out 
and said, "Hey, the the FBI is asking uh, if you  

345
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,440
would like any assistance with this." And I said, 
"You know what? We're we're still in the very  

346
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:35,520
early stages of of gathering facts. Uh, I have 
the utmost confidence in in the two detectives,  

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00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:40,080
uh, one detective and one detective supervisor 
who were working and gathering, uh, facts. So,  

348
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,640
at that point, I said, "I think we have everything 
uh under control." Uh, as they gathered more  

349
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,280
information, the uh task force detective reached 
out again and said, "Hey, that they're really  

350
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:55,200
interested in this." And so, we set that meeting. 
Um, so we set the meeting for May 14th, which was  

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00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,200
just a couple of weeks after we really launched 
the investigation. And it was during that meeting,  

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00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:04,000
we pretty much gave them everything we had. Um, 
they looked at it and they said, "Yeah, we'd like  

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00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,720
to we see some federal charges here and we'd like 
to work with you on this." So, we uh we welcome  

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00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:14,400
the assistance. Okay. So, it was after they saw it 
in the the news. Um I believe I'm I'm speculating,  

355
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:20,640
but I'm assuming that's what it was. Yeah. That 
they saw it in the news and reached out. Um Okay.  

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00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:26,560
And then, um this is a question for the treasurer. 
So, you had mentioned that you would actually like  

357
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:35,760
to be checked as well. So, who does that now? So, 
and that's what um councelor Riley's question. So  

358
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:41,600
when I'm alluding in the policies, so and maybe 
I'll walk through an example because that is how  

359
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:47,840
I think, but if a department comes in with a 
thousand deposit putting it towards a specific  

360
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,800
mun code and in my team, so how it works, 
and maybe we should have started with this,  

361
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,280
but how it would work is in the treasury 
window, they would come with either a cash or  

362
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,880
check breakdown. The turnover sheet is is the face 
sheet. So that's indicating here's the munus code,  

363
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:08,400
here's the department, um here's where we'd like 
it to go, and here's a breakdown of either cash or  

364
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:13,520
check what's in what's included in the turnover. 
We will stamp that. So we have a time and date  

365
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:18,960
stamp similar to what the clerk uses. So we will 
stamp that at the time of receipt. We will give  

366
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:25,360
the department a copy back. Um and then we will 
take a copy and we will input that into our daily  

367
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:32,480
batch. So all deposits um we make daily deposits 
to the bank. So all of that money is going out of  

368
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:39,120
our office daily. So essentially what I'm looking 
for from departments is to make sure that if they  

369
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:45,680
gave me $1,000 and I we're putting it to munice 
code 1 2 3 4 5 that it's getting to where they  

370
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:52,000
expect it to be. And so if you brought $1,000 
for the senior center and one of my clerks fat  

371
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:57,120
fingered it and put it into inspectional services, 
I want to make sure that someone has said, "Oh,  

372
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:02,640
wait a second. I think I'm not seeing my thousand 
deposit as I expected." And we can do a little  

373
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:08,400
bit of research on that and see did it go into the 
wrong munus code? Did it um that's really the only  

374
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:28,880
possibility, but yes, so it it is important 
that someone is also checking us. Okay. Um,

375
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:39,840
okay, maybe that's all my questions for right now.

376
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:46,080
How are you, Molly? I had a nice visit with 
you and we went over a lot of these things. So,  

377
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,600
um I guess one of the questions that I have 
and I have them all over the place. So,  

378
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,160
the treasur you get the cash and and you you've 
only been here since 2022. So, you really can't  

379
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:58,400
talk back to 2014, correct? But and I think when 
you were using the example and I'm not trying to  

380
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,640
say your example wasn't good like a bank when 
you get laid off and you don't have that direct  

381
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,560
deposit going and the bank's definitely not going 
to know us. And I realize we're a city so we're  

382
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,400
pretty big but these are our departments. So 
when you see those turnovers going up or down or  

383
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,480
if they change something that should be something 
that a director should be communicating especially  

384
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,960
when the change of flow of money is changing. 
So if it was we're not going to charge for this  

385
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,120
anymore should be notified to the people who'd 
be collecting that money getting that money like  

386
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,040
we're we we're stopping we're not taking any of 
that. I'm just I'm just pointing that out because  

387
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,760
it's a little different than a big bank noticing 
whether or not I get direct deposit anymore versus  

388
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:37,680
a city whose you know responsibility is for 
the revenues coming into our city as well as  

389
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,280
collecting the taxes. And I'm not saying you did 
anything. I'm just suggesting that that so that  

390
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,200
would be something I think when coun councelor 
McKe was saying there should be kind of something  

391
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,640
we can look at. But you've only been here for two 
years and I wouldn't I don't know what they pre  

392
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,560
like 2014. I'd be curious. I would have gone back 
that far too if I could have. Yeah. And and yes,  

393
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:59,280
I mean the point is well taken. I think it's it's 
so hard. Um if you're charging $3 for an activity,  

394
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:06,000
it's a 500 $500 million a year is flowing through 
my department. So I wouldn't necessarily catch No,  

395
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,240
I know. I think that's the problem though is that 
because cash like that, like it's petty cash might  

396
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:14,080
not seem like a lot, but when you started going in 
there, you started to realize it was like $2,000  

397
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:19,840
a week. So when you see it's $2,000 a week, all 
of a sudden it's not petty cash anymore. Now it's  

398
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:25,520
actually it's it's impactful. And that money can 
easily be taken away. We have other accounts in  

399
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:30,240
the city. So when I talked about the COA and 
this is just one person who did a bad deed,  

400
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:33,760
but we also have revolving accounts in the 
schools. How many how often do those things  

401
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:38,480
get reconciled? We also have um the schools you 
just mentioned. And the other thing is when a  

402
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:43,920
turnover comes in, you collect the turnover from 
the the I say client from your department head,  

403
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,000
whoever's bringing it in, right? The clerk. But 
then that same turnover typically goes down to  

404
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,320
the accountants office so that they know too 
that at least that's how I understand it. The  

405
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,840
turnover comes into the treasures. You you mark 
it down. You say you did what you needed to do and  

406
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,960
then the accountants get it and there should be a 
reconciliation that's happening at the end of the  

407
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:04,080
month so that if it does get deposited into the 
wrong um account you're catching that fairly fast.  

408
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:09,760
Is that correct? So and and or weekly mostly. So 
you're mostly correct. I think the reconciliations  

409
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,880
that my team is doing, so I'm my team is making 
sure that if we've put it into this bank,  

410
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:21,200
so think physical cash versus munis cash, if we 
put it into this bank, that what we're reconciling  

411
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:26,960
is making sure the check didn't bounce, that the 
bricks guy didn't um stop at Starbucks on the way.  

412
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:33,760
So that's what my team is doing. There's there's 
so if someone has coded put the incorrect code on  

413
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:41,520
a turnover that wouldn't get caught throughout 
the whole life cycle um because we've expected  

414
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:46,480
it to go into this incorrect code and it did go 
into this incorrect code. So so for all intents  

415
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,800
and purposes everyone has done everything 
correctly. I think typically what happens  

416
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,720
is well reconciliation typically happens like when 
that department that's looking for the money will  

417
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:58,400
say no I brought this and I need deposit and 
I have my turnover sheets so this is where it  

418
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,560
is. So what I'm saying is whether or not you're 
reconciling everybody should be reconciling. So  

419
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,840
whether it's whether it's the treasurer's office 
or the accountant's office or even potentially me  

420
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:13,360
who brought it in and saying wait I should have I 
should have $10,000 here. I want to get a new van.  

421
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,680
Whatever it is I want to do that. That's what's 
happening there. So this cash that's coming in and  

422
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:22,400
cash is always dangerous. I always say this like 
it's better to pay like well actually that's not  

423
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,880
true because now people steal your credit cards 
so like all sorts of things happen but it is a  

424
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,720
trickier thing because cash is something you want 
to get in and get out as fast as possible because  

425
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:36,240
you don't want to be responsible for the cash at 
the COA at the schools at any place because it can  

426
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:40,160
easily something easily can happen. So obviously 
when it comes into the treasures office it's not  

427
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,240
like you have stacks of $100,000 sitting around 
because you get out to the bank every day and  

428
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:50,400
same thing with with um the COA. So I guess my 
question there is um if there's any way it could  

429
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:57,840
have gone back to 2014 because that's a long time 
2014 to 20 24 10 years and it only seemed to go  

430
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,440
back I think to in the report it only was like the 
last two years that they were reconciling and how  

431
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:07,120
they came up with the number seemed a little like 
there's no real way to be able to tell right so I  

432
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:13,920
guess my question there too would be I have to go 
back to my notes um so the earliest what was the  

433
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:18,880
earliest date that we figured out that there was 
improperly. Was it the 19th when you went to when  

434
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,160
the whistleblower came? Like how did how did they 
just came to you with the whistleblower? Was that  

435
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,320
when we all found out? That was the first time 
that I became aware of it. Correct. Maybe it's  

436
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,640
maybe it's through I'm sorry. I'm guessing it's 
definitely not. So maybe to Mr. Walker. When when  

437
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:36,880
did exactly did this kind of get flagged? I had 
the initial meeting with the employee on the 16th  

438
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:42,320
of April. The subsequent meeting was on the 18th 
of April. What was the 18th of April? Sorry. What  

439
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:48,320
was that? What was the 18th of April? The second 
meeting. So the first meeting was was preliminary  

440
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:57,600
in in nature, general conversation. Um with the 
request that uh this seemed very serious. uh  

441
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:06,400
we needed to see the backup information that the 
employee had. Um that was produced um that at the  

442
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:12,480
subsequent meeting and it was at that subsequent 
meeting that you know basically the the the switch  

443
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:17,680
was flipped that this is that serious that yeah 
we needed to get the police and the and the city's  

444
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:23,600
lawyer involved. So it was identified and this 
is not this is not the reporter that identified  

445
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:30,960
it. It was in the report from the from the the um 
the feds cuz he he pleaded guilty, but it did say  

446
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,920
that people were intimidating and and employees 
were moving money. Did you investigate any of  

447
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:40,800
that either? Because it seems a little strange 
that it's actually documented that people who  

448
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:45,040
worked at the COA knew what was going on and they 
were they were hiding money from this person. So,  

449
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:50,400
this is this might have only got come out to you 
on 419 or 416 2024, but this sounds like it was  

450
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:57,200
going on for a long time. So, I'm just curious 
about that. Again, my knowledge starts at 4:16.  

451
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:04,880
Mhm. Um, and moves on to 418. Um, from there, 
you know, the investigation that took place and,  

452
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:09,760
you know, what was said within the federal filings 
certainly wasn't anything that was ever raised  

453
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:15,120
uh to our office. Okay. Well, it's in the federal 
filing that the employees were hiding cash from  

454
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:21,280
Mr. Glasby. Um, and then the other question 
that I had was, so I understood, you know,  

455
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,920
we have a PO and you have the PO. I understood. 
Thank you very much, Miss Hovind. I I understood  

456
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:30,240
how a PO works. Um, and I didn't have a question 
for you. I was just kind of embarrassed for you.  

457
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:43,600
That's truly what I was feeling. Yeah. Yeah. 
No, I was I was embarrassed for you. Hoben,

458
00:48:43,600 --> 00:49:12,400
I wasn't answering your question. I was 
answering Miss McKe. You said my name. Yes.

459
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:35,680
Recess. You have to open. Okay. So, Catherine got

460
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:39,360
the city of Quinzy. Um, that should not have 
happened. And as for the other spectator, um, you  

461
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:45,120
know, I'm not giving her a pass, but she's not, 
you know, an appointed member of the city. So, um,  

462
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:50,080
I just wanted to apologize. I want to thank the 
Quinsey police for taking care of that, and I want  

463
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:57,440
to thank Chris Walker, um, you know, for trying 
to conference with that individual. um before  

464
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:10,480
you know that just happened. So, thank you Mr. 
Walker. Council Mahoney, you can continue. Oh, so

465
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:17,440
yeah, we're going to wait till 7. Okay. 
What are we doing? We're waiting till 7. So,  

466
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:23,520
um council, you on? Let me 
just hold on one second.

467
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:24,160
Sorry.

468
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:39,440
Thank you chairman. Before I started to ask this 
crispy case, everyone just saw what happened. Is  

469
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:47,200
she here some department head? I strongly 
suggest administration give a discipline of  

470
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:53,280
this kind of behave. Yeah. So, council, we 
can't really talk about that. that's under  

471
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:59,040
the purview of the mayor to to do that. You 
could certainly talk to Mr. Walker, you know,  

472
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:05,760
um outside of this meeting, but we we can't 
really talk about um any disciplinary that  

473
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:12,240
might happen between uh you know, now and 
then. So, um so just be advised on that.  

474
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:21,440
Thank you. Thank you. I just feel someone put 
the shim on this great grand hall. That's it.

475
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:36,160
Okay, my first question is so follow up 
with councelor um McKe's comment this  

476
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:50,080
officious questionable behavior since seems 
start of 2014 is that correct you miss Chris

477
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:58,400
I I am not aware ware of this the anything 
suggesting um and it may have been in court  

478
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:06,880
at at some portion of the the uh the proceedings 
but um I think the investigation that that took  

479
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:11,280
place the police department and the city 
uh was over the course of the last several  

480
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:19,680
years what we had access to. So I'm I'm not 
aware of anything going back as far as 2014.

481
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:27,360
Yes. Thank you. And so Mr. Worker, so you 
mentioned you start to pay attention April  

482
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:39,840
16th. Which year is that? 2020 through uh 
2024 council. Okay. Um and how how long  

483
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:49,040
has this questionable behavior uh last lasted 
according to the court report? I don't know.  

484
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:58,000
Is there any I know the the city 
investigation uh went back a number of years  

485
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:05,280
uh to what we had access to. Um once we 
found out that something was going on,  

486
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:12,960
that's when the switch was pulled and all 
the appropriate parties were then involved.  

487
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:21,360
I don't have the specific dates on the 
investigation on what when uh how far back  

488
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:32,720
it went. Um my knowledge is that it was several 
years. Um and that's as far as I can go with it.

489
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:34,960
I actually not asking you this question.  

490
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:41,680
I just asking from the report 
councelor Maris mentioned 2014

491
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:51,840
So, this is um this is a story 
that ran in the Patriot Ledger  

492
00:54:51,840 --> 00:55:01,360
uh June 17th or updated June 17th and it 
said that the US attorney Christina Barklay,

493
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:12,480
sorry. Um okay. Clausby's known improprieties 
began in 2014. Barkley said when he asked  

494
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:18,560
his assistant director for $260 out of petty 
cash to make a car payment. For the 10 years  

495
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,880
that followed, the various women within the 
department would try to hide cash from him,  

496
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:27,680
moving it around the office from one drawer 
or cabinet to another, Barkley said. And  

497
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:41,600
that's the US attorney. So, it seems to have 
been going on for 10 years at least. Who?

498
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:49,440
Thank you. Uh, council mar provide that 
information. So for 10 years employees  

499
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:58,000
are hiding cash from this jaw to that jaw. For 
10 years that's kind of looks like in the movie  

500
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:07,120
and how many that means not just one employee 
found it. I'm wondering how many employees have  

501
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:17,360
reported this to either FBI or reported to 
the city. How many employees have reported

502
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:33,360
through you? Again, council, no one reported 
anything um to the city uh until April of 2024.

503
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:44,160
And uh so when when did that employee start 
to report to FBI? So that employee reported  

504
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:50,800
to FBI first. No, the employee reported to the 
city first. Okay. The city then informed the  

505
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:55,760
police department. The police department conducted 
a thorough investigation. At some point the police  

506
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:02,320
department was joined by the federal government 
in that investigation. Okay. Thank you for the  

507
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:12,960
clarification. And so as I read I remember the 
employee reported as anonymous. Is that correct?  

508
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:22,400
She didn't uh uh report she didn't tell her name. 
Uh no that's not that's not true. I mean I think  

509
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:28,560
again through you Mr. chairman, I think we 
refrain from using the the employees name,  

510
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,960
but it certainly wasn't anonymous to 
me. Uh certainly wasn't anonymous to  

511
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:38,560
the mayor. It certainly wasn't anonymous 
to the investigative team. Um that person  

512
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:47,520
uh is an employee of the elder services department 
and they saw something wrong and they raised it.

513
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:57,520
Um my next question is since it's already 
last for 10 years multiple employees hiding  

514
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:05,280
cash around why only one employee reported 
to the city? How about other employees? Are  

515
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:16,800
they afraid of something or they just 
uh and I don't know what what to say

516
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:25,520
through you. I think I answered that that question 
earlier about the process and what it takes and  

517
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:33,840
what that this person committed a crime and it 
was through the manipulation of people that he  

518
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:39,440
committed crime. It's why there ended up being a 
federal indictment. It's why there were federal  

519
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:49,760
charges is because this individual used those 
people in a way that was against Massachusetts  

520
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:58,080
state law and against federal law. And ultimately 
that's what took place here. My next question is  

521
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:06,160
uh did the employee just reported a cash being 
stolen or she also found those fake checks or  

522
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:13,920
the checks was not being used on the right 
correct use through you uh council. It was it  

523
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:22,960
was both that the employee was uh aware of issues 
relative to the cash and the employee was also  

524
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:32,400
uh aware of and the issues with procurement. So um 
sorry I'm just going to stop right there because  

525
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:37,280
according to the bell outside it's 7 o'clock. So, 
we're going to take a recess from this oversight  

526
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:41,440
committee hearing and we're going to open the 
rules committee and the ordinance committee and  

527
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:48,560
the general city council meeting and then we're 
going to come back and continue this conversation.

528
00:59:48,560 --> 01:00:02,400
I

529
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:36,880
Okay. All right.

530
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:42,080
Hello everyone. Um I am just officially 
opening up the rules committee meeting  

531
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:51,120
um for June 22nd. Um we will take a recess until 
after we come back from various other opening ups.

532
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:19,360
Good evening everybody. We're going to open 
the June 22nd, 2026 um council meeting. I  

533
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:25,200
don't have my notes. That's okay. Um could you 
call the Could you Yep. Sure. We call the role.  

534
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:33,440
Councelor Ash. Council Deona. Council Hubley. 
Council Jacobs. Council McKe, Council Riley,  

535
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:42,560
Council Ryan, Moment of Council Win, President 
Mahoney, present. Eight minutes. If we could  

536
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:47,120
all stand um for a moment of silence. I'd like 
to recognize tonight for the passing of Quinsey  

537
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:53,360
High School graduate Ka Ka Garcia Costa, a young 
man remembered by his teachers and his classmates  

538
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:58,400
for the character and kindness he had. I ask that 
we all observe a moment of silence in memory of  

539
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:09,360
Ka Kron and support of his grieving family, 
his loved ones, and his friends. Thank you.

540
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:22,640
Can turn to pledge allegiance to the flaggy

541
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:31,760
and justice for all. Y if we could read the open 
meeting please. Pursuant to the open meeting law,  

542
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:36,560
any person may make an audio or video recording 
of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting  

543
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:40,560
through any medium. Attendees are therefore 
advised that such recordings or transmissions  

544
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:45,200
are being made whether perceived or unpersceived 
by those present and are deemed acknowledged and  

545
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:49,680
permissible. Thank you very much. And then we're 
going to we go back to finding. We're going back  

546
01:02:49,680 --> 01:03:10,000
to um oversight. Okay, we're going to we're 
going to reassess and go back to oversight.

547
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:16,160
Back to oversight. Councelor Yuan, 
you want to continue your questioning?

548
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:23,840
Thank you, chairman. Just keep my question. So, 
uh Mr. worker. You said that employee also found  

549
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:33,360
some check is had you Mr. Chairman. Um there 
were no fake checks. Um there were purchase  

550
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:41,920
orders that were originally deemed suspect and 
then purchase orders and payments uh to various  

551
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:48,480
vendors that were eventually deemed criminal. 
But there were no there were no fake checks.

552
01:03:53,120 --> 01:04:01,760
If the checks didn't really pay for the real 
services in the department should not be just  

553
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:10,240
only one person found it that mean and since it's 
last so many years must be multiple employees have  

554
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:20,000
found this problem I'm just wondering why why 
this kind of criminal can last so many years  

555
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:31,200
before it was recovered through you Mr. chairman 
again I would repeat the the answer is that he  

556
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:41,520
manipulated the system he manipulated people uh 
that is why criminal charges were filed my next  

557
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:52,320
question is from the report some other counelors 
also mentioned the one way of his manipulation is  

558
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:58,400
by frequently toted departments and openly 
referenced his close relationship with the  

559
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:04,720
mayor. I'm not pointed to the mayor but I just 
say one way of his manipulation is through this  

560
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:12,320
way which intimidate the staff from reporting 
him and that's why last so long to recover his  

561
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:20,320
criminal. So for this I want to know what's 
the administration's opinion about that?  

562
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:32,480
How to prevent this kind of things happen again? 
Staff being intimidated by some by someone who  

563
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:42,080
who has a close relationship to some powerful 
person. Sure. Through you, Mr. Channon. This  

564
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:49,600
is the dictionary definition of manipulation. 
Doesn't mean it was true. Doesn't mean people  

565
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:56,880
needed to have this concern that those 
employees had. Uh that is what when I say  

566
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:02,240
the word manipulation that is what happened. 
This individual manipulated people into  

567
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:08,400
believing a certain thing which allowed him 
to then perpetrate this fraud on the city.  

568
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:17,120
Uh again, I would go back to the overall history 
of this administration, the our department heads,  

569
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:26,560
the staff that we have. Um and there has never 
been any kind of indication like this. Um other  

570
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:33,920
than in in this particular case that people 
need to feel like they don't that they should  

571
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:37,920
not be raising questions when questions are 
appropriate to to be asked. We've reviewed this  

572
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:44,160
with department heads. We've reviewed this with 
staff. Um the level of comfort that people have  

573
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:49,040
in talking directly to the administration. We have 
a wonderful relationship with just about all of  

574
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:53,840
our collective bargaining units, with all of our 
leaders of our collective bargaining units. Um,  

575
01:06:53,840 --> 01:07:02,240
and I can say personally that there's not a leader 
collective bargaining that isn't that is afraid or  

576
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:10,720
or uh in any way um uncomfortable coming directly 
to the administration with any kind of an issue.  

577
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:19,360
Um, and that has been bar none the the way the 
process has worked over the last 18 to 19 years.  

578
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:28,560
So I would hate for again a person, an individual 
who manipulated the system, who manipulated the  

579
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:36,960
people to be suggested as symbolic of the 
way um this mayor and this community has  

580
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:43,920
operated over the last 19 years because it's 
just it the evidence does not back that up.

581
01:07:46,960 --> 01:08:01,040
My next question is this kind of intimidation is 
not just happened in one case. I can give you my  

582
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:13,360
own experience in 2024 when I when I connected 
signatures to repeal mayor's pay raise. I met  

583
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:23,840
several city employees even they even they 
are willing even they disagree about this  

584
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:34,000
pay raise they want to sign but they afraid to 
sign it and one extreme case is one firefighter  

585
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:42,320
who has signed his name on it but since his 
name is on the top of that signing sheet and  

586
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:51,760
He immediately taught it and asked me to give 
him another signing sheet with several names  

587
01:08:51,760 --> 01:09:01,920
already on it so he can hide his name among 
those names. So what uh what is he afraid of?  

588
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:11,360
I thought in America signing petition is every 
citizen's constitution right should be protected.  

589
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:19,440
Why a firefighter supposed to be a most 
brave man even afraid about signing his  

590
01:09:19,440 --> 01:09:30,000
name on the petition? And if this happened in 
this city and not just only one case, several  

591
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:40,240
employees also including teachers, they want 
to sign but they are not they dare not to sign.

592
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:50,000
Um that's why I thought that this is not just one 
case uh staff been manipulated to be intimidated  

593
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:59,200
to report some very questional behave. I think 
the atmosphere the working atmosphere has some  

594
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:09,280
problems. Also residents have reported for 
years that nepartisan is rampant in this city.  

595
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:19,920
This city has entrenched power and entrenched 
interests that make change very difficult because  

596
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:27,120
no one wants their wasted interests challenged 
or affected. They will push back against  

597
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:36,800
reform-minded new counselors sometimes even to 
the extent of personal attacks. I can illust  

598
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:44,320
illustrate it more. Okay, let me just speak all 
I want to say. My home address and the councelor  

599
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:53,600
McKis home address were posted on that Facebook 
page with the words let her know how we feel  

600
01:10:53,600 --> 01:11:03,280
followed to our addresses. This is openly inviting 
harassment. Yet many employees and officials who  

601
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:10,080
are active on that Facebook page said nothing 
about this. said nothing about this beyond an  

602
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:20,720
acceptable post. Silence is violence. Residents 
are taking note. I encourage I encourage residents  

603
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:29,120
to stay vigilant. Making change is never easy. 
Electing reformed counselors is only the first  

604
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:37,120
step. Real meaningful change can only be achieved 
through constant public engagement and oversight.

605
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:45,200
Thank you to the residents who continue to 
stay involved and pay attention just like  

606
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:53,440
that employee is brave enough to report this 
criminal behave. We don't want another class  

607
01:11:53,440 --> 01:12:06,240
B case to happen. We need to we need to clean 
house and end the culture of nepotism. Thank you.

608
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:16,720
All right. Do any other counselors 
have questions? Councelor McKe. Um,  

609
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:28,880
so I wondered when did um Mr. Clausby 
take the helm of elder services?

610
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:36,080
You would ask me that, council. Uh, it was well 
before I'm being whispered that it was 1999.  

611
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:46,800
Okay. So before Mayor Cook took office. Okay. So 
I guess one other point that concerns me is that  

612
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:56,240
in 2009, Mr. Clausby stepped down from the board 
of a nonprofit that he was on. Um, and according  

613
01:12:56,240 --> 01:13:06,960
to the the ledger, he helped his parents move into 
a unit that had been owned by the nonprofit. Um,  

614
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:17,040
even though another, um, another person was first 
on the waiting list. So, um I guess I'm if he was  

615
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:26,240
there as the head of elder services before that 
and then showed this kind of judgment in 2009,

616
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:34,160
it suggests and he was able to still hold 
that position. Um I don't know if anything,  

617
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:40,400
you know, I it doesn't seem like anything 
happened to him or he lost his position  

618
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:46,480
there. So that was a red flag that I think was 
a missed opportunity. Um through through you,  

619
01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:52,880
Mr. Chairman, I don't know the veracity that that 
my recollection of that issue. Um was that that  

620
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:59,920
was during a year there were a number of things 
um as this body well knows that get thrown out  

621
01:13:59,920 --> 01:14:06,400
in politics and and things are written, things are 
said. Um but the level of veracity that I have no  

622
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:16,480
is approaching now 18 years ago. Um I don't know 
the ver the the veracity in my my my my head is  

623
01:14:16,480 --> 01:14:24,720
that that was largely uh disputed at the time 
and it was he said he said sort of situation.  

624
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:34,800
Okay. Um the other issue that um I just want 
to highlight uh we've brought it up before and  

625
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:42,400
um we're told that it's kind of a nothing burger, 
but it did it did raise concerns for me. Um when  

626
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:53,040
I was looking at the purchase orders for the fire 
gear um in the past, I noticed that um the former  

627
01:14:53,040 --> 01:15:03,040
finance director's signature was on some of those 
from um two of those from months after he had left  

628
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:11,280
his post, which raised questions for me about 
who was overseeing these purchase orders And  

629
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:18,640
um I do I do think that kind of cumulatively we 
we need a better we need to look really carefully  

630
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:27,920
at these systems um because that shouldn't be 
allowed to happen even if it didn't go out to  

631
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:33,840
people. the fact that it was still there raises 
questions about who's overseeing it and if anyone  

632
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:44,480
is overseeing it and if so why is it being allowed 
to continue? Thank you. Is there a question? Was  

633
01:15:44,480 --> 01:15:52,480
there Did you have a question about we just No, 
I'm just I'm I'm concerned about it. That's all.

634
01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:59,760
All right. Thank uh councelor 
Mahoney. I didn't really

635
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:07,920
So I think I was talking to Molly when she first 
came up and I don't mean to go back and forth,  

636
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:14,960
but I I was going into the purchase order 
first. But so just for clarification,  

637
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:18,880
so you can't go back to 2014 or can you 
go back? It's just not your records.  

638
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:26,160
So I can go back to 2014 for MUNS receipts which I 
think councelor Jacobs requested and we provided.  

639
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:33,680
So we can what we can't do is provide the paper 
turnover sheet. So mass um I I can't I don't  

640
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:38,560
have room for 10 years of records in our office. 
So we follow the records retention schedule set  

641
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:44,320
forth by the state. So we only have the last two 
fiscal years in physically in the office. Okay.  

642
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:49,040
And then I don't know who this is for, but I'm 
assuming everybody in the city who has to touch  

643
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:54,320
physical cash is bonded. Is that correct? That 
is incorrect. That's incorrect. Um, so and why  

644
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:59,120
is that? Because if they're transferring money, 
they're supposed to be. I thought So I don't know  

645
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:05,520
the specifics on that. Um, so I'm bonded, right? 
So So my staff um people in my staff are bonded.  

646
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:11,040
I'm bonded. I don't know if um the extent of 
what that looks like for different departments,  

647
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:14,640
but it's certainly something I could look at. 
So maybe that's through to Chris Walker. Um  

648
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:19,920
that is a policy that should happen because 
if you're transporting cash from the COA,  

649
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:24,240
which is in North Quinzy to city hall, 
you're carrying whatever $2,000 a week,  

650
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:28,160
that should be bonded because that car could be 
stolen or something could happen. And you know,  

651
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:31,200
if you're not bonding them, then you're not 
that's another safeguard that we're not doing.  

652
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:35,840
And that's that's something that we should be 
doing and that's good practice. And I'm surprised  

653
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:39,520
we're not. So anybody that would be the schools, 
too. So if the schools are carrying money over,  

654
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:43,520
somebody should be whoever the delivery person 
should be at least bonded. It doesn't take much.  

655
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:47,920
It's an insurance policy. And if you did, if 
it was bonded, you could go back to 2014 and  

656
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:52,800
potentially collect some of that money that goes 
back that far. So if this was identified in 2014,  

657
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:58,720
my next question was, who was the assistant in 
2014? And who is the assistant now in the for the  

658
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:03,760
not? I really would rather not. I just I'm asking 
a question. I need to know that because I don't  

659
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:08,080
know. I don't know. Okay. So you don't know who 
the assistant was? 20 in 2014. I don't know that  

660
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:14,560
we had an assistant. So I know who it was. So it 
was it before it was Marie it was somebody named  

661
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:21,040
Kathy Bose. So, the reason why I'm bringing that 
up is because tonight although we were talking  

662
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:24,880
about things and saying that and I'm changing 
the subject right now, but I'm going to change  

663
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:31,520
it because we're talking we we had a purchasing 
person up here who was directly talking to us  

664
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:35,920
talking down to us cuz she knows that she can say 
what she wants to at that microphone and there's  

665
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:40,240
going to be no this she won't be fired tomorrow. 
But here's the interesting thing going back to  

666
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:45,680
2014. If I just look at the track record of what 
we're talking about, we're looking at in 2014,  

667
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:51,520
I just lost my notes because I had it written 
down someplace. In 2014, what we know is that  

668
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:56,800
um Glazby was the was the COA director. Kathy Bose 
was I think the assistant because I know when I  

669
01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:00,160
would go in there, I was told I'm not invited in 
there because I'm not elected official, but I was  

670
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:06,320
an elected official, so that really bothered her 
that I got to go in. Chief Keenan was the chief  

671
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:13,200
and Mayor Ko is the is the mayor. Eric Mason was 
probably not yet the chief financial officer, but  

672
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:21,680
when this all happened, he was. And most of these 
people, well, Ko, Eric, Glasby, and Mark Kerry,  

673
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:25,920
who was in the recording studio, are all part 
of the Men of Divine Mercy. I find it impossible  

674
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:30,960
to believe that that optic isn't standing out to 
everybody. And I'm bringing that I wasn't planning  

675
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:34,320
on bringing that up tonight, but I'm bringing it 
up tonight just because of the actions of one of  

676
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:40,000
your directors coming up and speaking to us. 
completely unprofessional and yeah, I'm sorry,  

677
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:43,840
but that that needs to be said. So, when we 
talking about this, we're not trying to say  

678
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:47,680
that there's only one bad actor. What I'm trying 
to say is there was something really bad going  

679
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:52,880
on at the COA. The person's not bonded. We know 
that they were moving money around. It was in a  

680
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:58,560
report and we want to say that we've got all the 
safeguards figured out, but we don't bond people.  

681
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:02,400
And you know, the other things that we're not I 
haven't heard anything about reconciliation. We  

682
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:06,560
have revolving accounts at the schools. Are we are 
we are we reconciling those on a monthly basis? Do  

683
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:09,840
we know that there's no money missing from that's 
a lot of money in revolving accounts and it's  

684
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:14,080
not just that it's also in our water and so we 
have revolving accounts don't we do we reconcile  

685
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:20,080
those to the dollar I mean just curious because 
this is a as you said this is a half a billion  

686
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:24,800
dollar business that we're running here so and 
although this might be small money it's money  

687
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:29,040
that came from our seniors and we should all be 
horrified and why wasn't there anybody from the  

688
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:35,120
city representing those seniors at that at that 
judgment that's what I really want nobody from the  

689
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:41,600
city was Okay. So, so just as a couple points of 
clarity, so we absolutely reconcile monthly. Um,  

690
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:48,880
we reconciled to within $10 of fiscal year 2024. 
So, we we 100% reconcile. It's hard to reconcile  

691
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:54,080
something that was stolen. I know. I just I'm 
just pointing it out because not because I'm  

692
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:58,640
there certainly am not upset with you at all. 
What I am upset with is the optics of what we're  

693
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:02,000
what we're all living through. I'm a resident 
of the city, too, and it's embarrassing. So,  

694
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:07,680
then I might just say the second thing. So, I was 
subpoenaed for that. um for Wednesday and the FBI  

695
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:12,880
asked that I didn't that I not come. So So yes, 
there were certainly I was planning on going up  

696
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:18,400
until they asked you not to come. Correct. Yeah. 
It just looks bad again that this this optic of  

697
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:24,400
who was in trouble and that nobody from the city 
went to protect the residents, the pe the seniors  

698
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:29,360
in the city. It looked as though hey, you know 
what? We're just going to quietly step over here.  

699
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:34,160
And you and I realized the connections. I'm not by 
any means. I just point them all out to you. Those  

700
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:39,840
are connections in our city. Those are the optics. 
So if if you're working underneath Tom Clasby,  

701
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:44,720
the COA director, and he's saying, you know, you 
better not say anything to me. I'm I'm positive  

702
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:49,440
nobody's saying anything because that's that's the 
that's the reality of something. I mean, if you  

703
01:21:49,440 --> 01:21:52,560
work in a family business, you don't say anything 
bad about the family, the guy that's running the  

704
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:56,800
family business to the brother. That's, you know, 
that's how it's working here. And I'm not pointing  

705
01:21:56,800 --> 01:22:00,960
fingers, but I am suggesting like it's great to 
sit up here and say, you know, I think you did a  

706
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:04,960
great job, Molly. I really do cuz you called 
in on a Friday night. You've got three kids.  

707
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:09,360
You're probably like, "That wasn't my plan for the 
weekend." And you and same thing with you, Chief  

708
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:14,480
Kennedy. You did a great job. Same with you, Paul. 
However, it seems to me that there should have  

709
01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:20,400
been flags much earlier than what you did. And you 
know, I think the only real reason, truthfully,  

710
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:25,360
this is just my opinion. The only real reason why 
this even got any anything he got walked out the  

711
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:30,640
door is because it was the the the federal part 
of it. I'm sorry. That's how it feels through you,  

712
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:35,520
Mr. Chairman. I'm sorry, council. That you can say 
you're sorry. I'm pretty mad already. So that's  

713
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:40,320
I'm sorry. No, that's that's just not that's just 
not true. He was terminated before the federal  

714
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:47,360
government was even involved. Mhm. So in 2009 when 
he did this and that's usually that's the start  

715
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:51,280
of something when somebody No, in 2009 you said 
you said that was a political thing. I don't know  

716
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:58,560
if it was a political thing or not. in 2009 he um 
got his parents into it and then um and relatively  

717
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:05,360
shortly after somebody else's family member got 
into the naval terrace as well. I I really did not  

718
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:11,840
want to go in that direction, but I will say that 
it is incredibly incredibly impossible not to look  

719
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:17,760
at the optics of what we're looking at here and 
to suggest that anything different is happening.  

720
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:26,400
I'm going to go to my end because this 
is probably better for me to you know.

721
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:34,320
So ultimately this resulted in a federal 
criminal prosecution. What assurances can  

722
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:38,880
the administration provide that similar misconduct 
not occurring elsewhere in city government such as  

723
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:43,520
department heads coming up and just calling people 
out? That's that's the fact because she might not  

724
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:50,160
be stealing something, but she's she's certainly 
behaving in a way that's not really professional.  

725
01:23:50,160 --> 01:23:54,160
What independent review has been conducted to 
verify that other departments do not have the  

726
01:23:54,160 --> 01:24:00,800
same vulnerabilities that existed in the elder 
services? What safeguards now exist that would  

727
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:06,560
have detected this scheme much earlier earlier 
because it's been going on from what it sounds  

728
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:10,480
like since 2014. And there were people there with, 
you know, let me tell you, I don't think those  

729
01:24:10,480 --> 01:24:14,480
people were afraid to go and tell the mayor what 
was going on. They might have even been helping in  

730
01:24:14,480 --> 01:24:23,840
a bedding. How quickly would similar misconduct be 
detected today? These are real questions. I mean,  

731
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:28,160
you can tell me you have the safeguards in place, 
but how quickly would these things happen? Yeah.  

732
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:34,320
So, um, so I'm happy to go through the policies 
again. So, I I certainly, this is before my time.  

733
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:41,760
I am not aiding and abetting anybody. I promise. 
Um, I also I think we've put some really strict  

734
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:48,080
policies into place and we're doing the on-site. 
I can't change the past. Um, I actually don't know  

735
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:54,160
if I even met him. So, so I I can't change the 
past. I cannot change what we've done. I can what  

736
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:59,280
I can do is control what's happening moving 
forward. Moving forward, we are doing annual  

737
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:05,360
on-site. We are doing annual reviews. We are 
thoroughly looking at all of these departments.  

738
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:10,160
my team is calling departments saying, "We haven't 
seen you this week. What's going on?" So, that's  

739
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:16,640
something I I can't I can't go back in time, but 
but what I can do and what I can promise and I and  

740
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:25,840
I hope my track record speaks for itself, my team 
really is fantastic. Um, and so, so certainly,  

741
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:31,440
yes, something bad happened. I can put all the 
policies and procedures into place. My policies  

742
01:25:31,440 --> 01:25:35,920
still don't say don't steal. They still don't 
say that because that's the law. They don't.  

743
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:39,840
And the thing is is there's this is this is one 
that actually stuck and somebody got caught. But  

744
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:44,720
this isn't the first time that you've heard of 
somebody's being removed because there and those  

745
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:48,480
are the rumors, Chris, that don't necessarily 
make it out there. But there's lots of those like  

746
01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:52,880
something happened and this person's being removed 
because they were doing stuff during work time and  

747
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:59,760
they had stuff. I a lot of that's happening and I 
I just that those are rumors though. So, but this  

748
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:04,080
one was this was you know this was not a rumor. 
this is the real thing. So, I question, you know,  

749
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:08,240
I'm sure there's other things that are happening 
well within the city because I can tell you that  

750
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:14,320
the um the bravado of who you're connected to does 
matter in the city. And that's not pretend. That's  

751
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:20,160
not a pretend thing. I mean, it just isn't. And 
Molly, I know I know how hard you work. I came  

752
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:24,720
in and met with you. I met your department. I and 
I came in and met with Paul and his department. I  

753
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:28,640
know that you put those safeguards into place 
and I know you put your best effort forward.  

754
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:32,480
I suggest also getting them bonded though because 
that would be able to be something you could have  

755
01:26:32,480 --> 01:26:37,280
cashed in on a little bit because of the loss. Not 
it'll probably be $10,000 but it's something that  

756
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:42,240
everybody that's carrying cash in the city should 
be and and that so then I'd have to come for an  

757
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:47,520
appropriation that it's it's dozens of people that 
doesn't matter. Yeah. So we certainly you can say  

758
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:51,280
it's dozens of people. That's like saying I'm only 
going to get one license to use Adobe like I you  

759
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:54,880
know you got to if you have if you're running 
a half a billion dollar budget then you need to  

760
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:59,360
have multiple people on it. And if you want to 
cheap out on it, then when the person steals,  

761
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:03,520
which happens, I'm not saying you're cheaping 
out, but I mean, if the person steals or gets  

762
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:08,000
robbed or something, then it's shame on us for 
not having that. I understand we're self-insured.  

763
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:13,040
What happens with the money that gets recovered 
from I believe it's Mr. Clasby's pension that  

764
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:15,920
he's going to have to pay back. What happens 
to the money that comes back into this? Does  

765
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:20,240
it go back into the Is this a question for Mr. 
Walker? I'm not sure who it's a question for.  

766
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:24,960
I think that would be miscellaneous non-recurring 
revenue. Sorry, I don't mean to make a joke. It's  

767
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:29,360
getting it's getting tense, but I I think it would 
go into miscellaneous non-recurring revenue. Um,  

768
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:33,680
and it would go back into the city's coffers. 
Mhm. So, it would go into free cash. So,  

769
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:36,640
and the reason why I asked that because where 
do where would it normally have gone to when  

770
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:40,960
it comes into the same place? So, it would go 
into the senior center account. It would go  

771
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:46,240
into the what? The senior center account. So, the 
$136,000 it would come in would normally when it  

772
01:27:46,240 --> 01:27:49,360
came in the right way would go into the senior 
center account. And in this particular case, it  

773
01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:52,480
would go into miscellaneous. Is that what you're 
talking? I'm just speculating. Sorry. I was just  

774
01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:57,120
making I'm just asking. I'm asking. I was just 
making a joke. I don't know where it would go. I  

775
01:27:57,120 --> 01:28:03,280
We could put it into the senior center account. 
Certainly. I wasn't sure. Yeah. I So, it's it's  

776
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:08,000
it's fine. You're lightening the mood. But but 
again, you know, when I'm looking at this and I  

777
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:14,960
I I did I found it a little bit just alarming for 
somebody who had done something so egregious to  

778
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:20,640
the seniors in our city, the people who we talk 
about and and should be most concerned about,  

779
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:28,000
but yet nobody from the city went there. And I 
I sorry councelor that again there were there  

780
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:36,400
were staff city staff from elder services at the 
sentencing on Wednesday. So only his family moved.  

781
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:45,680
Y uh if I may answer that question for you. Um the 
way the uh disposition in the federal court went  

782
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:52,320
um that's a uh reimbursement that's being paid to 
the city. Uh there was no penalty assessed against  

783
01:28:52,320 --> 01:29:01,120
Mr. Clasby, but he was ordered to return the funds 
in the amounts 130 some odd thousand. Um it's a  

784
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:07,120
negotiated amount that goes back into the general 
fund. The only way it could go anywhere else would  

785
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:14,560
be through an appropriation process, but that's 
um I forget the term. I used to know the term,  

786
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:21,600
but there's a term for money that the city 
receives that's unassigned to any particular  

787
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:32,240
um matter or reason, and that money goes into 
the general fund. Thank you. So, I guess the last  

788
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:38,800
question I'd have is um so I've learned a lot. 
What has the administration learned from this  

789
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:45,600
um this organizational cultural reporting, 
oversight, accountability, public confidence,  

790
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:50,400
um lessons that have been implemented throughout 
the city government and how do we make people  

791
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:54,400
realize that it doesn't matter who you know, if 
you do something wrong, you're going to get fired.  

792
01:29:54,400 --> 01:30:02,080
I just curious about that because it is a who you 
know here. So, I through you, Mr. Chairman, again,  

793
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:08,400
I obviously couldn't disagree uh more vehemently 
relative to that. I think the track record speaks  

794
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:16,160
for itself. Uh that there was a person that used 
that manipulated the system to criminal ends. Uh  

795
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:22,960
and that is what happened here. Uh the public 
has shown great faith in the city. Uh the city  

796
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:29,680
is showing great faith in the public. I would 
again look at the bigger picture and everything  

797
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:37,600
that goes on in this community. Um there is 
no reason and there is no real evidence that  

798
01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:43,280
there's any sort of culture that was suggestive 
of what has been raised previously. It doesn't  

799
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:48,960
it doesn't exist. People may think a certain way. 
They may be manipulated into thinking a certain  

800
01:30:48,960 --> 01:31:11,120
way by certain individuals who are perpetrating 
crimes. But it quite simply does not exist.

801
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:18,240
All right. So I sorry I have a few questions 
here. Um Miss Smith, if I could just ask you a few  

802
01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:28,320
questions. Sorry. So today I I had the opportunity 
um after work to go down to Elder Services and  

803
01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:34,160
uh speak with Mrs. Hanley and you know on top of 
giving me a tour of everything that was going on  

804
01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:41,200
at Elder Services um she let me sit in on while 
they were doing like the the fee remittance um  

805
01:31:41,200 --> 01:31:48,000
and she kind of walked me through the steps of how 
it happens down there, right? Um I guess I'm just  

806
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:53,120
curious like what happens. He just walked through 
like what happens when it gets to your office. So  

807
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:59,280
that envelope is sealed, right? It has like the 
you know the cash is in there and it's wrapped up  

808
01:31:59,280 --> 01:32:05,040
in the yellow sheet of paper that she has and it 
has the amount of people who took you know chair  

809
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:10,960
yoga zoom zumba you know and the amount of money. 
So what happens when it gets to your office? So  

810
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:16,960
the format what it will look like will vary by 
department but the procedure is always going to be  

811
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:24,080
the same. So the clerk at the time of receipt will 
verify the cash in front of the other departmental  

812
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:31,440
employee who's doing the drop off the turnover. 
Um so we will if there's cash a cash component. So  

813
01:32:31,440 --> 01:32:36,880
maybe I'll if there's cash in the turnover we will 
run it through our cash recycler that will kick  

814
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:42,080
out any fraudulent bills and we'll double count 
the amount. We'll verify that amount with what's  

815
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:49,840
on the turnover sheet. If those two match we will 
stamp it paid. We will then prepare a deposit slip  

816
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:56,560
um to go to our bank. If the deposit has 
checks, if it's a small amount of checks,  

817
01:32:56,560 --> 01:33:00,000
sometimes departments are dropping off two or 
three checks. We can easily do the math right  

818
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:05,120
there. There are sometimes where a department 
is dropping off dozens of checks. Um and so  

819
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:11,040
we don't have the capacity at that moment in time 
to to count it instantly. So, what we'll do is we  

820
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:17,040
will email that department um back their copy once 
we've verified and and gone through those amounts.  

821
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:23,120
If there's cash, it is always being counted at 
the time of the turnover. Um, as part of our new  

822
01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:31,040
policies, you may not um leave a turnover in 
the window without a clerk receiving it. So,  

823
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:36,080
um so I'll use sorry, chief. I'll use police 
as an example where police are they're they're  

824
01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:41,280
up earlier than my staff is. And so there was a 
moment in time where they were putting it into our  

825
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:48,160
um windows and leaving it. And so we've we've 
stopped that um entirely. So once it comes into  

826
01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:54,400
my department, we've stamped it, we've verified 
the funds and the amounts. We will then batch  

827
01:33:54,400 --> 01:34:00,160
all of the day's receipts together. Um we will 
put that into our cashbook, which is a ledger,  

828
01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:08,240
um an independent ledger from Munis. We will then 
input the receipts into Munis into the respective  

829
01:34:08,240 --> 01:34:13,120
code that was indicated on the turnover sheet. Um 
it will then kind of flow through the rest of the  

830
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:22,720
batching process. Um it will go over to our bank. 
Okay. So do you ever actually do any of that or is  

831
01:34:22,720 --> 01:34:27,760
that just somebody on your staff that does that? 
Oh, we all do it. So, ideally, it's um you're  

832
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:34,880
separating all of those duties. And so, I have a 
front um clerk who will receive the cash, verify  

833
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:42,800
the cash, and stamp it. Ideally, a second person 
is also verifying that second that that amount of  

834
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:49,440
cash. So, we have a second sign off. That person 
will input it into Munis. they will put all of the  

835
01:34:49,440 --> 01:34:55,520
receipts from Munis from that day in and then 
it will then flow into me and I will post the  

836
01:34:55,520 --> 01:35:01,600
entire day onto um into the the system. So let 
me just kind of throw this out as an example and  

837
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:07,840
I'm not saying you're this is you but let's say 
you're related let's say Mr. Clasby brought those  

838
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:14,640
things in and you were related to him, right? 
Do you think it would be okay for you to remit  

839
01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:25,200
those fees? No. No. Because I have it I did some 
research and the former city treasurer Deborah  

840
01:35:25,200 --> 01:35:33,040
Coughlin and Tom Clasby are related through you, 
Mr. Chan. I mean, we're getting we are going down  

841
01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:40,560
paths that are entirely in my mind respectfully 
inappropriate to suggest that the any treasurer  

842
01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:47,280
collector of the city had we're just getting 
down to the levels of insinuation um that I don't  

843
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:53,600
believe respectfully is doing is doing anyone any 
good. Um, if there was a relationship there, it's  

844
01:35:53,600 --> 01:36:01,920
it's third it's it's getting respectfully down a 
path. I'm just asking questions. I'm I'm glad to  

845
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:09,200
know that you would not you would recuse yourself 
as I think any person should. That's all that's on  

846
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:20,320
that's all I'm saying about that. If yes, I would 
not do that. Um, so the the uh person or the um

847
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:30,480
sorry the uh vendor who was out of state uh from 
New York, what what uh service did they provide  

848
01:36:30,480 --> 01:36:35,760
for the city? What service was it said was being 
provided? I think it was a fraud a fraudulent  

849
01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:39,840
service. So no service was provided. Yeah, but 
what what service did they say was being provided?  

850
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:46,880
I believe it was a consulting um consulting for 
what? Yeah. Are you coming? I believe it was a  

851
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:53,680
consulting. Um I'm not sure. You want me to give 
it? Sure. Yeah. Counselor, that was uh part of  

852
01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:59,840
the fraud. Yeah. I know. I'm just asking what was 
the I mean because there was obviously uh a form  

853
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:05,360
filled out was obviously given to Mrs. Logan and 
the purchasing department. So there was obviously  

854
01:37:05,360 --> 01:37:12,240
some um you know service that they said that they 
were providing. I'm just curious what that service  

855
01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:16,320
is. If we don't know that's okay. Maybe you can 
tell me later. I'm just curious to the to the  

856
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:24,880
extent that we're conducting a productive 
oversight hearing um where the legislative  

857
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:31,360
body of government is trying to work with the 
executive branch and help improve things. Um,  

858
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:38,720
I can tell you that there's nowhere really to go 
as far as further inquiry into the company in New  

859
01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:45,120
York because that was clearly a shell. Although, 
as the treasurer explain, uh, the purchasing agent  

860
01:37:45,120 --> 01:37:52,480
explained, it all checked out. That was part of 
the fraud. They had a, uh, federal ID number.  

861
01:37:52,480 --> 01:37:58,800
They were registered in the state of New York, but 
they didn't provide service. And I don't know if  

862
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:07,440
anyone read the sentencing memorandum. I did. I 
still haven't been able to find I checked tonight  

863
01:38:07,440 --> 01:38:15,040
for the first time tonight. I heard about the 
2014 um incident. And the only thing I can find  

864
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:21,920
in the record and the federal court about 2014 
is that when we started that's when the city  

865
01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:28,960
started doing what are those sheets called for 
the cash? Turnover. turnover sheets. Um the way  

866
01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:37,680
it's reported in the federal court is 2014 is when 
the turnover sheets began. Um there's no reference  

867
01:38:37,680 --> 01:38:44,880
to what it is and and I saw the same thing that 
council McKe said she saw. It was only reported  

868
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:52,240
in the Patriot Ledger. Um which I note I recently 
corrected some date errors in. But to the extent  

869
01:38:52,240 --> 01:39:00,000
you want to go down that road, there's no road 
whatsoever to go down with uh former treasurer  

870
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:06,320
Deb Coughlin who is an outstanding individual 
question I had had no record. Excuse me. That's  

871
01:39:06,320 --> 01:39:11,600
not May I finish my answer, please? And then 
the question I'm addressing the chair. The  

872
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:16,400
question I had. Could I get a point of order from 
a council? The question The question I asked This  

873
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:24,560
isn't supposed to happen. No, I'm No, I'm not. 
The question I had was what service because there  

874
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:31,040
was a form filled out was given to the purchasing 
department that said what service this fraudulent  

875
01:39:31,040 --> 01:39:37,760
person was providing. I'm just curious what was 
the service because I'm hoping that someone in  

876
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:41,920
the purchase department looked at this and said, 
"Oh yes, this is the service they're providing.  

877
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:48,560
That seems logical to the services for elder 
service." So what I'm asking is what was the  

878
01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:56,400
service the fraudulent service that that that was 
being provided. All right. Well, I answered that  

879
01:39:56,400 --> 01:40:05,280
and it was part of the fraud. So there was clearly 
no service. um they were listed as a consultant  

880
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:12,560
and the purchasing department cannot look behind 
one contract for the amount of money involved when  

881
01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:18,880
they're running 40,000 transactions a year. So 
that was part of the fraud and I had moved on to  

882
01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:25,600
councelor I'd rather former treasure coughlin 
because to bring her name into this was the  

883
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:31,600
microphone just turned off. Yep. You're all done. 
Thank you. Well, I'm not all done. Okay. for the  

884
01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:38,960
record and I'll let at least the people present 
here that this is how this transparent group of  

885
01:40:38,960 --> 01:40:45,600
individuals who are supposed to be working with 
the executive branch are actually working. You're  

886
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:52,160
making insinuations that are an absolute disgrace 
about a treasurer who served with honor had no  

887
01:40:52,160 --> 01:40:58,800
reason to recuse herself from anything and it's 
a disgrace that her name was brought into it.  

888
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:06,000
We are here to participate in an oversight 
process and this has been a political rally  

889
01:41:06,000 --> 01:41:11,200
similar to what I objected to back in January. 
This is an over it's not an oversight process  

890
01:41:11,200 --> 01:41:19,600
when you come in here and don't answer any 
questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

891
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:23,840
Would anyone else like to Would anyone 
else like to answer that question? Do you  

892
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:33,200
know the answer to that? Chief Kennedy. Chief 
Kennedy. Yes. Yep. Thank you. Sorry. Yep. Um,  

893
01:41:33,200 --> 01:41:36,240
at the beginning, I don't have my notes up 
here yet. They removed, but at the beginning,  

894
01:41:36,240 --> 01:41:42,560
you said that um, a detective was dispatched out, 
I think, on the 18th. I don't have the notes. Who  

895
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:48,320
can you say who that was? Who was the detective 
who initiated this investigation? Yeah. So, well,  

896
01:41:48,320 --> 01:41:52,880
I had two detectives working that night after I 
left the mayor's office. Uh, Detective Lieutenant  

897
01:41:52,880 --> 01:41:59,200
Steo Donghue and, um, Detective uh, Bill Mont. 
uh who does a lot of our financial crimes work  

898
01:41:59,200 --> 01:42:04,400
happened to be working. So uh I gave them the 
heads up that night and uh they immediately  

899
01:42:04,400 --> 01:42:19,360
started working on it. Okay. Thank you. I 
just was I just was curious. That's all. Um

900
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:28,320
all right. Uh any of the coun you 
have a question. I can't see that.

901
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:37,040
Thank you, chairman. This question is for an 
missed worker. So, just follow your comment.  

902
01:42:37,040 --> 01:42:48,080
You keep saying it's just the one bad actors, 
one bad actor manipulate people into thinking  

903
01:42:48,080 --> 01:42:59,840
they they can't report him, intimidated him. But 
I want to ask how about other employees like that  

904
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:06,720
firefighter they are not sign petition even he 
finally signed to hide his name whom manipulated  

905
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:13,280
him and the several teachers want to sign it 
they are not sign it even though teacher always  

906
01:43:13,280 --> 01:43:21,440
teachers always teaches student to uphold your 
constitution right but finally themselves dare  

907
01:43:21,440 --> 01:43:31,600
not to sign the petition what they wanted sign who 
manipulated them and this I just asked these two  

908
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:42,720
questions and I would like to know what kind of 
at atmosphere in this city and what's the answer  

909
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:50,960
the administration can give right uh through you 
Mr. chairman. Um, in response to that question,  

910
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:58,160
first of all, it's very difficult to know, 
um, I'm not questioning your veracity,  

911
01:43:58,160 --> 01:44:04,000
but the truth of the allegations that have been 
conveyed to you. So, you're asking us to respond  

912
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:11,520
to pure speculation. I'm sure you're familiar with 
the fact having worked in the public sector at the  

913
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:19,520
library with folks who are in a union that there 
can be fissurers within a union and there can be  

914
01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:25,280
people who get along with others and people who 
don't and whatnot and there are statements that  

915
01:44:25,280 --> 01:44:33,200
that can be made. So we can't respond to that type 
of question raised by you because it's really in  

916
01:44:33,200 --> 01:44:39,920
the world of allegation human interaction that 
goes on everywhere. So the city is not taking  

917
01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:47,440
any steps to address the world of rumors in the 
workforce. That's that would be overwhelmingly  

918
01:44:47,440 --> 01:44:58,480
difficult to do. Thank you. Uh followup. So in 
2024 we did report this kind of uh situation  

919
01:44:58,480 --> 01:45:06,960
like uh employees want to sign the petition but 
they are not. Instead of alarmed by this kind  

920
01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:16,800
of situations city administration should be feel 
really cautious why employees are afraid of it.  

921
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:25,680
Instead of doing that you are very defensive 
about uh we put forward this question. I think  

922
01:45:25,680 --> 01:45:39,680
to work with to to work with resident to ensure a 
health open environment for not only for employees  

923
01:45:39,680 --> 01:45:50,880
for people work together. We should really take a 
serious consideration of why people will be afraid  

924
01:45:50,880 --> 01:46:02,240
to exercise their constitution rights. I think 
for any any officers, any employee, any resident,  

925
01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:11,680
if you live in America, a democratic country, the 
beacon of democracy, you should take this matter  

926
01:46:11,680 --> 01:46:22,880
seriously and consider how can we improve. I just 
say that. Okay. All right. one of the conflicting,  

927
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:29,200
you know, viewpoints you have to consider. 
You were talking all kinds of constitutional  

928
01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:35,280
um notions and teachers teaching in high school 
and that's all terrific, but it's also the case  

929
01:46:35,280 --> 01:46:42,720
that for the government, for the executive branch 
to get involved in a situation where people have  

930
01:46:42,720 --> 01:46:47,600
conflicting views, and that's really what you're 
talking about, some on one side of a petition,  

931
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:54,160
some on another. we can't be taking steps to 
enforce someone's right to sign a petition  

932
01:46:54,160 --> 01:46:59,520
for fear that we will be impeding the right of 
someone who opposes the position. So that's our  

933
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:06,160
major reason for staying out of things like that. 
And although you know your your general notion is  

934
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:14,320
um is a good one and a fair one. Uh the 
problem is as we've seen plenty this year  

935
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:20,560
um you know the democratic process can get a 
little messy and a little difficult because  

936
01:47:20,560 --> 01:47:31,200
views conflict. So that's why I we wouldn't 
be taking any further steps in that regard.

937
01:47:31,200 --> 01:47:35,200
Um

938
01:47:41,280 --> 01:47:45,600
Thank you. Um, since I brought this forward, I 
would like to ask that you just indulge me with  

939
01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:51,520
a few um, closing remarks. I want to thank Chief 
Kennedy, u, Miss Smith, and Mr. Delabara for being  

940
01:47:51,520 --> 01:47:56,160
here tonight and answering our questions. Um, but 
I do think that there are some areas that could be  

941
01:47:56,160 --> 01:48:02,800
improved. Um, I think comprehensive fraud training 
or I'm sorry, comprehensive fraud policy, not just  

942
01:48:02,800 --> 01:48:08,400
a cash management policy would be beneficial 
encompassing cash and procurement and municipal  

943
01:48:08,400 --> 01:48:13,440
finance. Um, I think that the fraud training that 
myself and and certainly Council McKe have been  

944
01:48:13,440 --> 01:48:18,240
through should be available and and required of 
all department heads and employees. I think a  

945
01:48:18,240 --> 01:48:24,080
third party whistleblower reporting um mechanism 
should be implemented separate from the city.  

946
01:48:24,080 --> 01:48:29,680
And I think a review of procurement and purchasing 
policies and procedures um should definitely be  

947
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:34,560
revisited. Some of the questions that I asked here 
tonight, while I can appreciate um why Miss Smith  

948
01:48:34,560 --> 01:48:38,960
was the one fielding those, u many of them really 
should have been gone to the purchasing and what I  

949
01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:43,360
witnessed here tonight did not give me confidence 
that there have been lessons learned in that area.  

950
01:48:43,360 --> 01:48:49,760
Um, I personally had an incident with a public 
records request a couple of years ago. Um,  

951
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:57,680
that I was asking for basic information and um, 
the response from the purchasing head was uh,  

952
01:48:57,680 --> 01:49:03,840
that she found my tone threatening. She CCed Chief 
Kennedy and um, I never got the information that I  

953
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:09,600
requested and I backed off. I did feel intimidated 
and I did not pursue it and instead I ran for  

954
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:14,400
city council again. Um and finally, I think 
that the Munis implementation for electronic  

955
01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:19,040
invoice payments um should be implemented 
across all departments within a year. And  

956
01:49:19,040 --> 01:49:23,680
I think that that's a reasonable goal. I think 
it would protect against fraud, waste, and abuse  

957
01:49:23,680 --> 01:49:34,720
and help to detect any anomalies in reporting. 
So, thank you very much for being here tonight.

958
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:39,680
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh Molly, I did have a 
couple questions if you have a if you can indulge  

959
01:49:39,680 --> 01:49:47,120
me. Um did you say that the site visits are one 
time annual or semiannual? So we've started doing  

960
01:49:47,120 --> 01:49:54,400
them annually. It's a it's a significant lift 
for my team. So um there's only three people in  

961
01:49:54,400 --> 01:49:58,640
the treasury staff. So it's it's hard to take 
everybody out of the office. Um but yes, we've  

962
01:49:58,640 --> 01:50:03,040
been doing them annually. And are you all going 
together? Is so it's myself and two of my staff  

963
01:50:03,040 --> 01:50:09,920
members. Correct. Um, do do the do the departments 
receive the annual department revenue site visit  

964
01:50:09,920 --> 01:50:14,160
checklist? Is this internal for your office or 
is this do you send this to the the department  

965
01:50:14,160 --> 01:50:18,960
prior to your visit? So, a little bit of both. 
We do prepare um we we gather some information  

966
01:50:18,960 --> 01:50:24,400
before we've gone. So, um just so that it's a more 
informed discussion. So, we're making sure they're  

967
01:50:24,400 --> 01:50:29,760
sending us their updated policies and procedures 
before we go. Um so that if we have changes, I  

968
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:34,400
don't I don't like to go anything without reading 
it through. Um, so I am a preparer for meetings  

969
01:50:34,400 --> 01:50:39,200
and so we prepare for meetings and so we we look 
at their policies and procedures before we go  

970
01:50:39,200 --> 01:50:50,160
in. Okay. Um, and the with respect to the actual 
reviews, are the reviews public or where where are  

971
01:50:50,160 --> 01:50:57,440
the reviews kept or held? So they're not public 
um in this binder. So So they're not public. We  

972
01:50:57,440 --> 01:51:02,640
certainly could look at um a lot of these things. 
Again, the departments on the whole are doing a  

973
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:07,680
really lovely job. Some of these things are are 
tweaks to um what I was referencing earlier,  

974
01:51:07,680 --> 01:51:13,040
having a second person there when they're counting 
the cash, for example. Um so they're not public,  

975
01:51:13,040 --> 01:51:18,720
but it's certainly something we could explore. 
And and you mentioned this is largely modeled  

976
01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:24,880
after the town of Sterling. Is that right? Um so 
maybe a point of clarification. So DLS department  

977
01:51:24,880 --> 01:51:30,240
um division of local services had gone into 
the town of Sterling I presume for some type of  

978
01:51:30,240 --> 01:51:38,480
um review and they drafted financial policies for 
the town of Sterling. So when I was doing research  

979
01:51:38,480 --> 01:51:45,440
um because my goal was is always like well what is 
everyone else doing? So I was trying to find best  

980
01:51:45,440 --> 01:51:52,400
practices for the senior center and so if DLS was 
kind of blessing those best practices my thought  

981
01:51:52,400 --> 01:52:00,160
was we should do the same and as I was doing the 
reading on that we were already doing it. And then  

982
01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:06,400
um you know this may be a good a good note for for 
you to end on at least with with my questions. Um  

983
01:52:06,400 --> 01:52:12,720
I do have a few other points but I know you have a 
program an app rolling out on July 1st. You know,  

984
01:52:12,720 --> 01:52:18,320
I think what kind of the overarching sentiment 
here is the less cash the better because the the  

985
01:52:18,320 --> 01:52:24,960
less uh room for error or margin of error or room 
for for fraud or a bad actor as as you say. So  

986
01:52:24,960 --> 01:52:31,120
um I know you have Pay Quinzy MA rolling out 
next week if you wanted to touch on that. Yeah,  

987
01:52:31,120 --> 01:52:37,760
thanks for the plug. Um so yes, we are launching a 
new online payment system um with the goal really  

988
01:52:37,760 --> 01:52:47,440
being to give departments the opportunity and the 
um the mechanism for accepting non-cash or check  

989
01:52:47,440 --> 01:52:52,320
payments. So and actually councelor Ryan perfect 
timing. So, councelor Ryan had the same question  

990
01:52:52,320 --> 01:53:01,600
on can we look at maybe eliminating cash and I 
think um my my prior life in the private sector we  

991
01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:05,280
were always striving for efficiency and that cash 
would have been the first thing to go. When you  

992
01:53:05,280 --> 01:53:12,080
look at government, we need to service all types 
of people. We need to offer payment methods that  

993
01:53:12,080 --> 01:53:17,920
um for the unbanked population for people who 
maybe don't want a credit or debit card for  

994
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:24,960
um populations that that don't have bank accounts. 
So, we really need to be able to provide services  

995
01:53:24,960 --> 01:53:31,200
to all sorts of people. So, eliminating the cash 
I I do think changes um the services that we can  

996
01:53:31,200 --> 01:53:37,360
really offer to different types of people. Um 
thank you. And then um I guess I'll just end you  

997
01:53:37,360 --> 01:53:44,080
know I I know a number of my fellow counselors um 
discussed tonight you know whistleblowing and just  

998
01:53:44,080 --> 01:53:48,880
really reiterate that the city is an employer. 
You know the employees of the city many are in  

999
01:53:48,880 --> 01:53:53,280
different unions and certainly there's a human 
resources department. You know they we are the  

1000
01:53:53,280 --> 01:53:58,000
employees of the city are afforded protections. 
Massachusetts has uh you know whistleblower  

1001
01:53:58,000 --> 01:54:02,960
statutes and whatnot. So certainly to the extent 
that that was brought up today, just you know make  

1002
01:54:02,960 --> 01:54:11,920
sure that of course everyone at home to the to 
to that point. Um with respect to the and Molly  

1003
01:54:11,920 --> 01:54:18,400
this isn't really a question for you but just 
something I wanted to note the the um internal  

1004
01:54:18,400 --> 01:54:26,880
audit service uh elder services operations review 
date August 27th, 2025. There is um you know a  

1005
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:33,440
spreadsheet in here with what's labeled um list 
of AP transactions deemed suspect after review  

1006
01:54:33,440 --> 01:54:39,120
of invoices. I just want to make sure that to the 
extent that this is that this list is is public  

1007
01:54:39,120 --> 01:54:44,880
that folks um you know see businesses on here that 
certainly shouldn't be implicated in this. Um and  

1008
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:52,160
I I don't want to see that spiral. Um, I know that 
this investigation was obviously investigated by  

1009
01:54:52,160 --> 01:54:57,280
a number of bureaus, QPD, federally, um, a number 
of different boards. So, to the extent that this  

1010
01:54:57,280 --> 01:55:03,920
list, um, has transactions from two businesses, 
uh, reiterate that, um, as far as I'm concerned  

1011
01:55:03,920 --> 01:55:12,640
sitting here, they shouldn't be implicated 
in um, in this. So, thank you very much.

1012
01:55:18,240 --> 01:55:27,440
Thank you chairman. Um through you. So like most 
of us when I saw the news reports of this fraud  

1013
01:55:27,440 --> 01:55:34,480
and crime I was deeply saddened. I was deeply 
saddened but that by the fact that I mean all  

1014
01:55:34,480 --> 01:55:43,600
fraud and all crime is obviously on its face bad 
but this is skimming instances of skimming dollars  

1015
01:55:43,600 --> 01:55:50,560
from seniors who have a fixed income and for chair 
yoga right I mean just that type of thing it it  

1016
01:55:50,560 --> 01:56:00,080
was just really upsetting um right after getting 
sworn in I reached out to director Hanley and  

1017
01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:05,440
asked if I could come down and and go through all 
their procedures that they've put in place in her  

1018
01:56:05,440 --> 01:56:10,240
tenure. I know she came in sort of after it all 
happened, but I wanted to get an appreciation and  

1019
01:56:10,240 --> 01:56:16,480
understanding and just compare them to that which 
I'd seen in my various business careers. and she  

1020
01:56:16,480 --> 01:56:21,120
took me through all of the different transaction 
handlings, the different recordkeepings,  

1021
01:56:21,120 --> 01:56:27,040
the different reconciliations, um how cash is 
transferred into envelopes reconciliations down  

1022
01:56:27,040 --> 01:56:34,560
to the $2, uh amounts. Um in some instances they, 
you know, the the head count differed from the  

1023
01:56:34,560 --> 01:56:39,120
money count, but it was because the instructor 
checked in and the instructor doesn't pay for  

1024
01:56:39,120 --> 01:56:46,800
the class. So, they're really getting down to the 
the the fine transactional amounts. One question  

1025
01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:53,360
did occur to me, and I know it doesn't change it 
from um being a cash transaction, but Molly, um if  

1026
01:56:53,360 --> 01:57:00,640
you might for a moment, um is there the in order 
to reduce the frequency of cash transactions, is  

1027
01:57:00,640 --> 01:57:05,840
there a way that maybe seniors could put down say 
$50 and then have a credit or some type of thing  

1028
01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:10,480
just to reduce the the the volume of transactions? 
I know it doesn't make it cashless, but I'm just  

1029
01:57:10,480 --> 01:57:15,280
trying to think a little think aloud a little bit 
on that. Yeah, that's certainly something Director  

1030
01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:21,520
Hanley and I had looked at. Um the software I 
believe does provide for that optionality. I'm  

1031
01:57:21,520 --> 01:57:26,320
not sure what the fees that come with that are. 
Um but it's something I know she's been excited  

1032
01:57:26,320 --> 01:57:32,480
about trying to roll out. Um I listened to her 
budget meeting. She said she had four decades of  

1033
01:57:32,480 --> 01:57:39,840
of seniors going there. So, I think that's that's 
a big breath of um different types of of payment  

1034
01:57:39,840 --> 01:57:44,800
methods. So, I'm sure it's something that we can 
roll out in the near future. Yeah, it just might  

1035
01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:50,480
reduce the amount of cash handling. Um but the 
going all going cashless, while it sounds great,  

1036
01:57:50,480 --> 01:57:54,960
it also has its trade-offs because now we're 
paying transaction fees related to that. So,  

1037
01:57:54,960 --> 01:57:59,040
it erodess from the revenue in some way, but in in 
in a lot of ways, it seems like a fair balance to  

1038
01:57:59,040 --> 01:58:06,320
to move as much cashless as possible. Um, also 
I I had Miss Hanley take me through all of her  

1039
01:58:06,320 --> 01:58:12,240
different recordkeeping and where, you know, board 
of trustees minutes were kept and all that kind of  

1040
01:58:12,240 --> 01:58:18,560
thing. And and I was not surprised at all having 
um encountered Miss Hanley over the years uh when  

1041
01:58:18,560 --> 01:58:24,000
she was the recck department. Very thorough, very 
diligent. Um, and so, uh, I was pretty happy to  

1042
01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:30,640
see see that, you know, I I feel good knowing 
that the leadership in place right now, um,  

1043
01:58:30,640 --> 01:58:37,360
going forward and for the past since Miss Hanley's 
taken the helm, um, is riding the ship and doing  

1044
01:58:37,360 --> 01:58:46,240
so with integrity. And I really appreciate that. 
And, uh, that's all I have for now. Thank you.

1045
01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:56,880
Yep. Sorry. Um, so I don't know who to ask us for 
it. So I think it goes back to reconciliation. If  

1046
01:58:56,880 --> 01:59:00,480
I could just ask one last question about that 
to you, Molly. It might be to you to Paul. I'm  

1047
01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:05,760
not sure. Um, so you're using turnover sheets 
and the senior activities. That's how they pay  

1048
01:59:05,760 --> 01:59:10,080
for it. When the theft happened, did the seniors 
still were you still collecting stuff from them  

1049
01:59:10,080 --> 01:59:14,320
or how did those those trips and everything still 
went on, right? You just say the end of your So  

1050
01:59:14,320 --> 01:59:17,760
they were collecting the money for the trips or 
whatever they were doing. So they're coming in,  

1051
01:59:17,760 --> 01:59:22,800
they're giving the $3 for yoga, the $10 to go to 
bingo. I don't know what they were doing, but then  

1052
01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:27,280
some of that money paid for trips too, didn't it? 
So did the trip still happen even though they were  

1053
01:59:27,280 --> 01:59:34,000
being money was being embezzled. So they they did. 
So after what's come out of the investigation is  

1054
01:59:34,000 --> 01:59:40,480
if you paid for the trip with a check, then that 
did make its way down into my department and then  

1055
01:59:40,480 --> 01:59:47,120
into the city's coffers. if you paid for ca for 
that trip with cash. Um, it was not. So, did they  

1056
01:59:47,120 --> 01:59:51,600
have to pay for it again or did the city pay for 
the trip? I mean, how did that get reconciled? I'm  

1057
01:59:51,600 --> 01:59:58,400
only speaking from my thought of spending a couple 
weeks there after that um during the incident. I  

1058
01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:02,960
I believe all the trips and hopefully I'm not 
misspeaking, but I believe all the trips you  

1059
02:00:02,960 --> 02:00:07,760
had to pay with a check. Okay. So the I was just 
asking that because again I'm going to go back  

1060
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:12,160
to the fact that this is the unfortunate part 
of this is that I do think that this could be  

1061
02:00:12,160 --> 02:00:16,240
happening in other departments. Just saying that 
you know there's there's some I feel like there's  

1062
02:00:16,240 --> 02:00:21,680
some really unstable things that were happening 
here tonight. But at the same time what I realize  

1063
02:00:21,680 --> 02:00:27,920
is that the focus, you know, this is a connected 
person no matter how we look. You may not have met  

1064
02:00:27,920 --> 02:00:34,800
him but everybody knew who he was and and he felt 
like he was above reproach. He thought he could  

1065
02:00:34,800 --> 02:00:38,800
do whatever he wanted and he did do whatever he 
wanted and it seems like he did whatever he wanted  

1066
02:00:38,800 --> 02:00:42,960
for a really long time without being checked and 
then maybe when he decided to go just a little  

1067
02:00:42,960 --> 02:00:47,200
bit step further because he needed more money to 
get the money across federal lines. I mean this  

1068
02:00:47,200 --> 02:00:50,320
is the stuff we watch on Netflix not really come 
you know we don't really think it's going to be  

1069
02:00:50,320 --> 02:00:55,520
happening here in Quinsey. Do you do you as you're 
reconciling do you the department heads that come  

1070
02:00:55,520 --> 02:01:00,160
in because you said earlier you know if they call 
us and say do you send the mun reports to them or  

1071
02:01:00,160 --> 02:01:03,920
do they have access some of them don't have access 
to munus reports so I'm not sure if they do to be  

1072
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:07,360
able to reconcile it themselves to be able to be 
able to flag something that might have got mis  

1073
02:01:07,360 --> 02:01:15,440
misdone so all department heads or all departments 
as part of our review um and is written into our  

1074
02:01:15,440 --> 02:01:21,200
new policy is that well new two years is that 
all departments need to be doing a reconciliation  

1075
02:01:22,480 --> 02:01:28,400
um against the turnovers that they've provided 
us. So if you've deposited if you've given the  

1076
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:34,240
treasur's office seven turnovers be looking and 
making sure there's seven deposits in your mun  

1077
02:01:34,240 --> 02:01:37,440
account and those figures are correct. Yeah. 
So the reason why I was bringing that up and  

1078
02:01:37,440 --> 02:01:41,600
I don't I don't think the library has a ton of 
free like petty cash that they deal with over  

1079
02:01:41,600 --> 02:01:45,520
there. I think they do though and I know the 
director basically said I don't know how to  

1080
02:01:45,520 --> 02:01:50,320
use munus and and that's my concern like like 
it's one of those types of things where you  

1081
02:01:50,320 --> 02:01:53,200
know you can put all the safeguards into it 
and say everybody has to do some things but  

1082
02:01:53,200 --> 02:01:57,040
if they don't have the training they don't know 
how to do it and it happens it doesn't happen  

1083
02:01:57,040 --> 02:02:00,080
just because you're not doing it. It can happen 
because everybody gets comfortable and things  

1084
02:02:00,080 --> 02:02:03,360
change and you kind of have to refresh them even 
though you're like I already know how to do that  

1085
02:02:03,360 --> 02:02:07,840
but you know we all take annual tests for like 
ethics and everything else that we have to do.  

1086
02:02:08,800 --> 02:02:14,320
or a designate. So, so if the department head 
So, so I do know that there is someone in the  

1087
02:02:14,320 --> 02:02:19,760
library and and I won't name names, but there is 
absolutely someone in the library that is looking  

1088
02:02:19,760 --> 02:02:25,200
at their mun deposits and verifying them with what 
my team has done. Okay. And I do I want to thank  

1089
02:02:25,200 --> 02:02:30,640
you, Molly, because I know how hard I mean you are 
extremely proud of your staff when I came in and  

1090
02:02:30,640 --> 02:02:34,800
the transition that you've had in that department. 
I'm not saying anything about any that was prior  

1091
02:02:34,800 --> 02:02:38,800
to you. I'm just saying that you you run a really 
tight ship and I love that about you. And I also  

1092
02:02:38,800 --> 02:02:43,920
want to thank Chief Kennedy because you know 
this is this is this was probably not your like  

1093
02:02:43,920 --> 02:02:48,560
the highest part of your day when you come in and 
go, "Oh, it's one of ours." Like that's horrible  

1094
02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:53,040
to have to deal with no matter who it is. And the 
same thing with um Paul, you kind of stepped in.  

1095
02:02:53,040 --> 02:02:58,080
But what I will say that's really disturbing to me 
is every time somebody stands up at the microphone  

1096
02:02:58,080 --> 02:03:01,440
and talks to us like we're dealing with something 
really bad because we're asking questions,  

1097
02:03:01,440 --> 02:03:06,800
it's offensive. That's how I feel. and that 
we're supposed to be working together. I mean,  

1098
02:03:06,800 --> 02:03:11,280
solicitor Timmons came up and basically said we 
should be working together and we are working  

1099
02:03:11,280 --> 02:03:16,080
together. There are uncomfortable things that 
we have to talk about and I'm just saying that  

1100
02:03:16,080 --> 02:03:20,800
because I I have asked for things and I work 
I work well with Mr. Walker, but when we're  

1101
02:03:20,800 --> 02:03:26,080
looking at this in particular, this is this is 
a giant stretch across a lot of departments. We  

1102
02:03:26,080 --> 02:03:30,080
don't have the procurement person here tonight 
to answer questions because she had to leave  

1103
02:03:30,080 --> 02:03:34,080
um because of her behavior and her behavior. I'm 
going to go back to that because her behavior is  

1104
02:03:34,080 --> 02:03:39,040
a reflection on this administration. It's a 
reflection on everything that we're talking  

1105
02:03:39,040 --> 02:03:43,120
about tonight that we're asking questions and we 
can't have that civil dialogue back and forth.  

1106
02:03:43,120 --> 02:03:47,360
She didn't come up to answer questions. She came 
up to attack us. That's what she was doing. She  

1107
02:03:47,360 --> 02:03:51,520
was up here like I don't like the way you look. 
And I don't care about that, but I care about  

1108
02:03:51,520 --> 02:03:54,560
what it looks like to the rest of the people 
at home. And that's our job. We got elected  

1109
02:03:54,560 --> 02:03:59,920
to come in and ask these questions. And I didn't I 
didn't create the Clasby situation. Clasby created  

1110
02:03:59,920 --> 02:04:04,480
the Clasby situation. And you know, I remember 
when you were growing up, you're kind of like,  

1111
02:04:04,480 --> 02:04:07,520
don't hang around that one because you're going 
to get in trouble. It seems like there's a lot  

1112
02:04:07,520 --> 02:04:11,120
of like people who get in trouble in the city of 
Quinsey that are part of the city of Quinsey's  

1113
02:04:11,120 --> 02:04:16,160
administration. Seriously. And that's true. So, 
be careful who you hang out with. But thank you  

1114
02:04:16,160 --> 02:04:23,440
very much. I really do appreciate everybody's 
willingness to come up and answer questions.

1115
02:04:23,440 --> 02:04:29,200
who are blaming you. Did any of the other 
counselors have any questions before I I just  

1116
02:04:29,200 --> 02:04:34,880
I just want to um have I have some closing remarks 
as well? Uh similar on what President Mahoney just  

1117
02:04:34,880 --> 02:04:41,440
said. Um this is the oversight committee. Um 
it's supposed to be somewhat uncomfortable.  

1118
02:04:41,440 --> 02:04:47,520
It's kind of where we go to ask really difficult 
questions. I know that in the past there have been  

1119
02:04:47,520 --> 02:04:52,960
other chairs of the oversight committee where 
they didn't meet. No questions were asked.  

1120
02:04:52,960 --> 02:04:57,760
um at least for the next 16 months that's not 
going to be the case. Um we are going to have  

1121
02:04:57,760 --> 02:05:08,000
regular oversight uh committee hearings and hard 
questions um are going to be asked. Um as for what  

1122
02:05:08,000 --> 02:05:17,600
happened earlier um when Miss Logan had to leave 
um you know I've known Miss Logan for 20 years.  

1123
02:05:17,600 --> 02:05:24,240
Um, she's always been a familiar face to me, a 
friendly face when I go out in in public. Um,  

1124
02:05:24,240 --> 02:05:31,360
I was a little caught off guard by her um, 
behavior here tonight. I I just want everyone at  

1125
02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:38,880
home to know that that's not the Katherine Logan 
that I've come to know over the last 20 years. Um,  

1126
02:05:38,880 --> 02:05:43,520
um, you know, I' I've known her a long time. Her 
I had her mother as my favorite math teacher in  

1127
02:05:43,520 --> 02:05:49,200
school. And you know, I know that she's she has 
done good work for the city and we all have,  

1128
02:05:49,200 --> 02:05:56,000
you know, times that aren't so great. Um, but 
it is my hope that she will reflect on this and,  

1129
02:05:56,000 --> 02:06:03,840
you know, be sending some apologies um to some 
of the counselors um here that were spoken  

1130
02:06:03,840 --> 02:06:10,880
about tonight. Um, on a kind of a separate note 
about Mr. Clasby, um, you know, we talked a lot  

1131
02:06:10,880 --> 02:06:17,440
about him. you know, tonight I just wanna, 
you know, he got caught up in, you know,  

1132
02:06:17,440 --> 02:06:27,120
put himself in a bad situation and he uh he got 
caught up there. Um I did know him. Um you know,  

1133
02:06:27,120 --> 02:06:34,320
just from being around in in local politics for 
years, um I was, you know, like the mayor said on  

1134
02:06:34,320 --> 02:06:43,280
one of his podcasts, when um this event happened, 
he was surprised. Um, I was also surprised. Um,  

1135
02:06:43,280 --> 02:06:48,960
Mr. Clasby was always somebody at an event that 
would come over and ask how I was doing, ask how  

1136
02:06:48,960 --> 02:06:54,800
everybody was doing and my family and and that's 
the person that that I knew um up until, you know,  

1137
02:06:54,800 --> 02:07:02,400
this event uh happened. But sometimes we we take 
a separate path and we go down a dark road and,  

1138
02:07:02,400 --> 02:07:11,040
you know, people can be, you know, disappointed. 
Um, so, um, I just wanted to to say that. Um,  

1139
02:07:11,040 --> 02:07:18,160
but this will close this part of the, um, 
oversight, um, hearing. Uh, we have two more  

1140
02:07:18,160 --> 02:07:26,160
things on here. Uh, 2026100. Um, it's order the 
Quinsey Housing Board uh, appointment process  

1141
02:07:26,160 --> 02:07:39,600
review. So, um, back on I'll wait till Yeah. 
back on um February 23rd. This was initially uh

1142
02:07:39,600 --> 02:07:46,000
it was initially introduced to be on the 
February uh 23rd, 2026 city council meeting,  

1143
02:07:46,000 --> 02:07:50,880
but I I believe that was the one that was 
cancelled for the snow. Uh so it was pushed  

1144
02:07:50,880 --> 02:07:55,280
off until March 2nd. It had to do with 
the appointment of two of the members of  

1145
02:07:55,280 --> 02:08:03,040
the Quinsey Housing Authority Board. One of them 
was uh Timothy Baker. um who's an atlarge member  

1146
02:08:03,040 --> 02:08:08,080
um of the Quincsey Housing Authority Board 
and the other one was a John Del Carly. He is  

1147
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:16,880
um the res tenant representative member. Um so we 
discussed it at the March 2nd, 2026 meeting. Uh  

1148
02:08:16,880 --> 02:08:23,040
the council voted to table those appointments um 
and requested additional information regarding the  

1149
02:08:23,040 --> 02:08:28,640
nominees and the appointment process so that 
members could make fully informed decisions.  

1150
02:08:29,360 --> 02:08:34,080
The council requests included information 
regarding the nominees qualifications and  

1151
02:08:34,080 --> 02:08:40,320
prior service as well as documentation related 
to the tenant representative appointment process  

1152
02:08:40,320 --> 02:08:47,760
under general law chapter 121b section 5. The 
council made these requests not as a criticism to  

1153
02:08:47,760 --> 02:08:53,600
any individual, but as part of the responsibility 
of this council to exercise thoughtful oversight  

1154
02:08:53,600 --> 02:08:58,800
and to ensure that public appointments are being 
made through a transparent process that complies  

1155
02:08:58,800 --> 02:09:05,280
with the applicable state law. Since March 2nd, 
members, I know I have um and I know council  

1156
02:09:05,280 --> 02:09:10,720
yan has uh of the council have continued to seek 
additional information. I recognize that gathering  

1157
02:09:10,720 --> 02:09:16,480
records and coordinating responses, you know, can 
take time, but I am disappointed that none of the  

1158
02:09:16,480 --> 02:09:22,880
requested documentation has been provided here 
tonight. I had hoped that by the time of today's  

1159
02:09:22,880 --> 02:09:28,560
hearing, we would have information necessary to 
fully address the council's questions and bring  

1160
02:09:28,560 --> 02:09:34,160
this matter to a conclusion. I believe that both 
the council and the administration share that same  

1161
02:09:34,160 --> 02:09:40,480
goal to ensure that the public has the confidence 
in the appointment process in the important work  

1162
02:09:40,480 --> 02:09:45,040
that has to be done by the Quinsey Housing 
Authority. Transparency and communication are  

1163
02:09:45,040 --> 02:09:50,960
essential to maintaining that confidence. Today's 
hearing is not intended to assign blame. Again,  

1164
02:09:50,960 --> 02:09:55,520
it's not. rather it's just an opportunity 
to better understand the process that if  

1165
02:09:55,520 --> 02:10:01,840
it was followed to obtain the information we had 
requested um and to work collaboratively towards  

1166
02:10:01,840 --> 02:10:06,960
resolving any outstanding questions. I appreciate 
everyone who's taken the time to participate in  

1167
02:10:06,960 --> 02:10:12,080
this process and I remain hopeful that through 
open dialogue and cooperation we can provide  

1168
02:10:12,080 --> 02:10:17,040
clarity for the council and the residents of 
Quinsey Housing and to the broader Quinsey  

1169
02:10:17,040 --> 02:10:20,960
community. With that, I look forward to any 
discussion that's going to happen here tonight.  

1170
02:10:20,960 --> 02:10:28,800
And I'm going to ask um Mr. Walker to tell us why 
we don't have the information that we requested 3  

1171
02:10:28,800 --> 02:10:35,440
months ago. Um hold on. Sorry. Through you, madam, 
Mr. Mr. Chairman. Um you know, quite simply,  

1172
02:10:35,440 --> 02:10:42,160
I think we talked about it last week. I I think 
uh the communication to the administration uh  

1173
02:10:42,160 --> 02:10:46,800
relative to some initial questions I think that 
was responded to and and there was some slippage  

1174
02:10:46,800 --> 02:10:56,160
there. Uh the council then filed a comprehensive 
order uh requesting documentation or ordering  

1175
02:10:56,160 --> 02:11:04,320
documentation. There were some issues with that. 
Um the administration has not signed that order.  

1176
02:11:04,320 --> 02:11:09,360
uh it has not evaluated that order that we're 
within the time frame of that. Um so based off  

1177
02:11:09,360 --> 02:11:16,320
of the fact that that order was submitted last 
week with a lot more uh information beyond the  

1178
02:11:16,320 --> 02:11:23,440
information that was initially requested um 
we're taking our privilege and determining  

1179
02:11:23,440 --> 02:11:31,200
how best to handle what was actually filed 
in the order and address it in the fall.

1180
02:11:34,240 --> 02:11:42,000
So, I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna say something. 
I'm just put on my my work hat for a second,  

1181
02:11:42,000 --> 02:11:47,360
right? So, it's the end of the school year, 
right? And what do you think I got going on  

1182
02:11:47,360 --> 02:11:53,840
at the end of the school year? Who's coming up 
to me every 5 seconds? I need extra time for  

1183
02:11:53,840 --> 02:11:58,240
this. I need extra time for that. Right? So, and 
I say to them, you know, you can have that time,  

1184
02:11:58,240 --> 02:12:04,720
but I like to put it right back on the students. 
How much time do you need? So, I'm going to ask  

1185
02:12:04,720 --> 02:12:12,880
how much time do you need to get the documents 
that we've requested? There's two things. First,  

1186
02:12:12,880 --> 02:12:18,720
there is what was in the actual order and whether 
or not all of that documentation was properly  

1187
02:12:18,720 --> 02:12:24,960
requested. Uh secondly, the base level information 
that that you have s sought, I think we'll most  

1188
02:12:24,960 --> 02:12:30,960
certainly be ready to go in the fall. Okay. So 
there's there's one piece of information that I I  

1189
02:12:30,960 --> 02:12:38,000
would like immediately and we did talk about this 
um offline earlier is the letters that went out  

1190
02:12:38,000 --> 02:12:45,600
to the tenant agencies. Um because I I you know 
you said you could get that from me tomorrow. I  

1191
02:12:45,600 --> 02:12:51,920
believe so. Okay. So you believe so or it's going 
to happen? This is M Mr. Chan. This is not a court  

1192
02:12:51,920 --> 02:12:56,320
of law. Yeah. Well, no, because I I just want 
because the thing is is according to state law,  

1193
02:12:56,320 --> 02:13:02,560
we have you have to let that sit for 90 days. So, 
what I'm saying is if the letter doesn't exist,  

1194
02:13:02,560 --> 02:13:08,880
we should get that letter out ASAP. So, that way 
at the end of the summer, the 90 days, you know,  

1195
02:13:08,880 --> 02:13:13,840
we get to the end of September, the 90 days 
has has gone by. That's why I'm looking for  

1196
02:13:13,840 --> 02:13:21,040
that letter so we can actually make sure we're 
following the state law. So, do we think we can  

1197
02:13:21,040 --> 02:13:28,400
have that letter tomorrow? We believe so. And 
and if if if the letter was not produced or  

1198
02:13:28,400 --> 02:13:33,680
can't be produced, would the administration be 
amendable to producing a letter and starting the  

1199
02:13:33,680 --> 02:13:42,000
nomination process over for the Look, I again 
the order is not properly before this body as  

1200
02:13:42,000 --> 02:13:47,520
it was submitted last week because it has not been 
signed. Uh whether or not it's a proper order or  

1201
02:13:47,520 --> 02:13:54,240
not is being reviewed. If that's the direction 
we're going, we we'll file what we need to file.  

1202
02:13:54,240 --> 02:13:59,040
We'll be ready to go in the fall. I would just 
say from a practical perspective that the mayor's  

1203
02:13:59,040 --> 02:14:04,400
appointees are already sitting. They've been 
sitting. These are follow-up terms that the  

1204
02:14:04,400 --> 02:14:10,320
mayor's appointees succeed until their successors 
are appointed. If this body does not choose to  

1205
02:14:10,320 --> 02:14:16,400
confirm those appointees, those me bodies those 
members are still members of the body. Correct.  

1206
02:14:16,400 --> 02:14:22,720
But we still need to make sure we're following the 
state law which says that when their term expires,  

1207
02:14:22,720 --> 02:14:30,560
which was on February 2nd, we, you know, we 
90 days before that, we were going to submit a  

1208
02:14:30,560 --> 02:14:37,840
um a letter to the 10 or 11 tenant agencies in 
Quinsey housing, which we're required to do by  

1209
02:14:37,840 --> 02:14:44,640
law. And as far as I know from the tenant agencies 
I've talked to, they did not receive a letter. So  

1210
02:14:44,640 --> 02:14:51,360
that's why I'm trying to confirm if the letter 
exists. Okay. So I'm hoping you I am hoping that  

1211
02:14:51,360 --> 02:14:57,600
we can get that tomorrow. So that way if we don't 
have it, if for some reason it doesn't exist and  

1212
02:14:57,600 --> 02:15:03,440
again, you know, as you said, it's not really a 
huge deal because the members are already sitting,  

1213
02:15:03,440 --> 02:15:11,120
but we can at least get the ball rolling so 
that we can come into compliance with state law.

1214
02:15:14,960 --> 02:15:19,680
see what I can do. Okay. Uh, any other 
counselors have any questions? Council,  

1215
02:15:19,680 --> 02:15:24,080
you want? Hold on one second.

1216
02:15:24,080 --> 02:15:27,520
Go ahead.

1217
02:15:27,520 --> 02:15:36,080
Thank you, chairman. So, I would like let a 
resident know how this confirmation process is.  

1218
02:15:36,080 --> 02:15:47,120
So in March administration just send two orders 
ask city council to confirm two appointees of  

1219
02:15:47,120 --> 02:15:55,200
the housing board member with no CV no no 
information whatever and they just give to  

1220
02:15:55,200 --> 02:16:03,280
city council say confirm it. Confirm what? And 
is this the standard practice of administration  

1221
02:16:03,280 --> 02:16:13,760
to submit a po appointment for city council 
to confirm? I just feel that's very strange.

1222
02:16:13,760 --> 02:16:18,800
Uh I would like to ask Miss worker is that 
the standard practice of the administration  

1223
02:16:18,800 --> 02:16:26,080
just submit to order say confirm these two 
appointees with no information whatever.  

1224
02:16:26,080 --> 02:16:35,201
How do we know these two appointees CV 
previous experience qualification and we  

1225
02:16:35,200 --> 02:16:42,240
have to do research and find out find out 
oh this is the current incumbents so if  

1226
02:16:42,240 --> 02:16:49,760
it's incumbent you should have a performance 
record and for I know why you are not a rush  

1227
02:16:49,760 --> 02:16:56,080
because without a confirmation since they are 
incumbent they can still sit at on that seat  

1228
02:16:56,080 --> 02:17:03,519
to keep connecting compensations until you find 
the find a new appointee to confirm you. So  

1229
02:17:03,520 --> 02:17:09,440
they don't care they just sitting there doesn't 
matter you confirm or not confirm. So the whole  

1230
02:17:09,439 --> 02:17:16,319
confirmation process is become a ceremonial for 
at least for the previous city council I guess  

1231
02:17:16,319 --> 02:17:22,559
if they if they do like this just confirm it 
without any information but we don't want this  

1232
02:17:22,560 --> 02:17:29,201
city council don't want to just do ceremonial work 
we want to really if you want to me confirm give  

1233
02:17:29,200 --> 02:17:36,559
me information let's let's check if this one is 
qualified otherwise how how how can we confirm

1234
02:17:39,120 --> 02:17:47,120
I would like to know Mr. 
workers opinion about this

1235
02:17:47,120 --> 02:17:54,080
through you madam chair madam chairman the I'm 
just so used to the finance committee meetings  

1236
02:17:54,080 --> 02:17:59,920
um look there's been a process here the council's 
asked for subsequent information that has not been  

1237
02:17:59,920 --> 02:18:05,600
asked for previously uh initially it was going to 
be scheduling the two appointees in front of the  

1238
02:18:05,600 --> 02:18:13,201
body uh the council was with within their rights 
to ask them questions that changed to different  

1239
02:18:13,200 --> 02:18:19,439
kinds of information culminating in last week 
a couple weeks ago when the council reminded  

1240
02:18:19,439 --> 02:18:24,479
that we hadn't addressed this issue which I took 
ownership of that we have not and then subsequent  

1241
02:18:24,479 --> 02:18:31,439
to that there was an order that was put in place 
which sort of now trumps our response to anything  

1242
02:18:31,439 --> 02:18:35,839
we're going to evaluate that order we may not 
sign that order we may be able to provide the  

1243
02:18:35,840 --> 02:18:43,520
information that the council feels appropriate Um, 
that's essentially where we're at. It's not over  

1244
02:18:43,520 --> 02:18:51,600
complicated. It's not any attempt at anything. 
It's the information requested has moved a little  

1245
02:18:51,600 --> 02:19:03,600
bit. We've certainly um not been in any great 
hustle. Sure. Um, but it's not that complicated.

1246
02:19:06,080 --> 02:19:13,359
So in the first meeting I did ask at least 
the administration have to provide a CV  

1247
02:19:13,359 --> 02:19:22,639
the performance record and any statement of 
conflict interest to the city council the the  

1248
02:19:22,640 --> 02:19:29,680
basic information but how many months passed 
three months passed the administration never  

1249
02:19:29,680 --> 02:19:35,520
get back to me and then I emailed you 
several Several weeks ago, I asked her,  

1250
02:19:35,520 --> 02:19:41,920
so what's the standard administration's 
process to to do this confirmation?  

1251
02:19:41,920 --> 02:19:50,880
Specifically, what kind of information usually 
admin administration provide to the city council  

1252
02:19:50,880 --> 02:20:01,600
about this appointee for confirmation and you 
said oh that's on me and I will see what I can  

1253
02:20:01,600 --> 02:20:10,000
get to to the city council. That's it. till 
now I still didn't get anything again because  

1254
02:20:10,000 --> 02:20:16,479
there's an order that's been passed by this body 
that trumped my last discussion on this prior to  

1255
02:20:16,479 --> 02:20:23,280
the order being filed was we will discuss and 
perhaps we can get that done at the meeting on  

1256
02:20:23,280 --> 02:20:30,240
the 17th but the meeting on the 17th an order 
was filed that order now formalizes a process  

1257
02:20:30,240 --> 02:20:34,559
it formalizes the council's wishes which is 
fine uh in a way that needs to be reviewed  

1258
02:20:34,560 --> 02:20:39,680
by legal to see if it's in proper since it's an 
order whether or not it's properly in front of  

1259
02:20:39,680 --> 02:20:48,960
the body or not and that's the way we're going to 
approach this. My next question is this always the  

1260
02:20:48,960 --> 02:20:55,120
this way when the previous city council confirms 
the appointees. No, usually what will happen is  

1261
02:20:55,120 --> 02:21:02,319
the council will ask uh if the appointees can 
appear before the body and if that's the case,  

1262
02:21:02,319 --> 02:21:08,479
they'll appear before the body, answer a 
couple questions and we generally move on.

1263
02:21:10,880 --> 02:21:16,240
So, uh, thank you and and I and I and I hear 
you on that and I know that that's how this  

1264
02:21:16,240 --> 02:21:22,240
conversation started. Um, was that they were 
going to come before the body and then you had  

1265
02:21:22,240 --> 02:21:30,559
said to me that you didn't think that at least 
one of the parties was capable or or would be  

1266
02:21:30,560 --> 02:21:36,560
comfortable doing that. and and I said to you 
at the time that that I totally understood  

1267
02:21:36,560 --> 02:21:42,800
um I I could understand that um you know I I think 
that person as after going through the meeting  

1268
02:21:42,800 --> 02:21:48,640
minutes does you know very valuable work um on 
that board and um you know I think that's what  

1269
02:21:48,640 --> 02:21:54,560
kind of like precipitated the discussion about us 
you know maybe having like a I know this was just  

1270
02:21:54,560 --> 02:22:00,560
kind of like a back and forth like a resume andor 
a statement of interest. I know those were kind  

1271
02:22:00,560 --> 02:22:07,760
of more um informal and we did go back and forth 
about that a few times, but those things um never  

1272
02:22:07,760 --> 02:22:13,840
materialized. Um you know, there's a whole slew 
of different reasons for that, I'm sure. But, you  

1273
02:22:13,840 --> 02:22:23,120
know, that was the catalyst for the order because 
the you know, again, we're working together here.  

1274
02:22:23,120 --> 02:22:30,559
um the congenial way in which we were working 
together seemed to be kind of breaking down.  

1275
02:22:30,560 --> 02:22:36,800
Um I don't know why because it always seemed very 
much like oh yeah we're going to get that to you.  

1276
02:22:36,800 --> 02:22:41,760
Oh this is going to happen. There was never 
any breakdown about it but then nothing ever  

1277
02:22:41,760 --> 02:22:47,281
um materialized. So, that's one of the reasons 
why I put the order forward. And it really just  

1278
02:22:47,280 --> 02:22:56,000
is those same things that um you know, we kind 
of more informally talked about um you know,  

1279
02:22:56,000 --> 02:23:02,560
offline. Um you know, but again, I I do want 
to get these two members confirmed. I know that  

1280
02:23:02,560 --> 02:23:10,560
they sit on the board um until their successors 
are chosen. Um but you know the the people who I  

1281
02:23:10,560 --> 02:23:20,800
represent um a lot of people who live in housing 
um they have concerns um and they feel like this  

1282
02:23:20,800 --> 02:23:27,920
is just another kind of slap in the face that 
like their concerns aren't heard. um they feel  

1283
02:23:27,920 --> 02:23:34,880
like their concerns aren't heard um at the Quinsey 
Housing Authority board meetings and now they feel  

1284
02:23:34,880 --> 02:23:39,680
like the city council well not the city council 
they feel like the administration is laying them  

1285
02:23:39,680 --> 02:23:47,281
down because it's the administration's um you know 
requirement to follow this state law and it's it's  

1286
02:23:47,280 --> 02:23:57,679
not this is not in an effort to you know chastise 
the administration. This is our um this is our  

1287
02:23:57,680 --> 02:24:05,600
duty, you know, to some of our most vulnerable 
residents. This is their one uh representative  

1288
02:24:05,600 --> 02:24:10,960
on the board and they already feel like the board 
is not doing a great job representing them and now  

1289
02:24:10,960 --> 02:24:17,680
they feel that their one representative, you know, 
is not even being held to task for, you know,  

1290
02:24:17,680 --> 02:24:24,480
their own confirmation. Um, I'm just going to open 
up to anybody else who has a question about this.  

1291
02:24:24,479 --> 02:24:30,959
Uh, councelor Mahoney. Yeah, hold on one second. 
Really have a question, but I do think we have,  

1292
02:24:30,960 --> 02:24:34,560
you know, we have time to come back at the 
beginning of September for this and we could  

1293
02:24:34,560 --> 02:24:38,640
probably just move this. And if you do have 
anything, u, Mr. Walker, that you can share with  

1294
02:24:38,640 --> 02:24:43,120
them, great. But, you know, if we and if it can't 
be in the first of first meeting of September,  

1295
02:24:43,120 --> 02:24:57,120
maybe it can be the second meeting in September. 
But we're not going to solve this tonight. So,

1296
02:24:57,120 --> 02:25:09,280
so the other thing on the agenda tonight is the 
uh resolve that I have um sorry uh 101 um 2026  

1297
02:25:09,280 --> 02:25:16,880
101. Um, it was read into uh at the city council 
meeting uh last week, so I won't read it again.  

1298
02:25:16,880 --> 02:25:25,440
Um, I'm hoping that um the my fellow counselors 
have had time to review this. Basically, just as a  

1299
02:25:25,439 --> 02:25:31,439
summary, there's five members on the board. One is 
appointed by the governor um and that's Josephine  

1300
02:25:31,439 --> 02:25:38,799
Sheay right now. Um two are appointed at large. 
um one another one is appointed at large but needs  

1301
02:25:38,800 --> 02:25:47,280
to be an AFL CIO member and the last one is the 
tenant representative. All this resolution does is  

1302
02:25:47,280 --> 02:25:57,840
ask the mayor when making his appointment to the 
Quinsey Housing Authority Board that he consider  

1303
02:25:57,840 --> 02:26:03,920
um appointing from one of the at two large 
members or at large members or two of them  

1304
02:26:03,920 --> 02:26:12,640
that he consider um appointing another member 
or somebody who lives in housing. Um, you know,  

1305
02:26:12,640 --> 02:26:16,640
I think I had said at the previous meeting 
that, you know, there's kind of like two I  

1306
02:26:16,640 --> 02:26:19,840
don't want to say there's obviously more than two 
camps, but there's two large camps in housing.  

1307
02:26:19,840 --> 02:26:27,040
There's there's elderly um and then there's family 
housing. It does seem like the elderly housing um  

1308
02:26:27,040 --> 02:26:33,040
the tenant representative has been someone um who 
lives in elderly housing and the people who live  

1309
02:26:33,040 --> 02:26:41,600
in family housing feel like their voices aren't 
being heard. Um, so I would entertain a motion to  

1310
02:26:41,600 --> 02:26:57,360
um accept this order 2026 101 um to move it into 
the general city council meeting uh for passage.

1311
02:26:57,359 --> 02:27:06,559
Not not out of not out of committee. There's one 
more. We don't have to. Okay. So, how do we So,  

1312
02:27:06,560 --> 02:27:11,840
it's in the calendar, so we can just pull it out.

1313
02:27:11,840 --> 02:27:15,120
All right, disregard. We don't need to we don't 
need to move. I thought we had to vote on that.  

1314
02:27:15,120 --> 02:27:19,519
But, um, again, I hope that, you know, um, 
in the general counsel meeting, you know,  

1315
02:27:19,520 --> 02:27:25,920
my fellow counselors um that we will pass 
this. Again, it doesn't um require the mayor  

1316
02:27:25,920 --> 02:27:33,040
to do that. It's just us asking him um from this 
request from the folks who live in housing. Does  

1317
02:27:33,040 --> 02:27:41,200
anybody have any questions about that? Councelor 
Riley, hold on one second. So, sorry. So, are we  

1318
02:27:41,200 --> 02:27:46,000
we're going to just take this up under reports of 
committees. Okay. So, I would just like to make a  

1319
02:27:46,000 --> 02:27:50,080
a general sort of statement because I know I've 
said it before that these boards, committees,  

1320
02:27:50,080 --> 02:27:55,519
and commissions um is there are definitely lots of 
people in the city of Quinsey that would love to  

1321
02:27:55,520 --> 02:28:00,400
be participating in a lot of these and it does 
seem like most people are appointed sometimes  

1322
02:28:00,399 --> 02:28:07,359
for decades. Um, I hear there's a book that has 
all the um expiration dates of when people are  

1323
02:28:07,359 --> 02:28:11,200
supposed to be in the case of this one because 
it's federal housing, I would imagine that's why  

1324
02:28:11,200 --> 02:28:17,359
it needs to come to the city council. Um, not all 
appointments come to the city council, but it does  

1325
02:28:17,359 --> 02:28:24,319
seem like and this particular one kind of in a 
funny way. Um, I had attended the Quinsey Housing  

1326
02:28:24,319 --> 02:28:30,240
Authority board meeting as I had done several of 
them and I told them you have two appointees who  

1327
02:28:30,240 --> 02:28:36,719
are whose term is expiring and the question they 
asked me was which two? They didn't know which two  

1328
02:28:36,720 --> 02:28:41,600
were expiring and so I told them and then you know 
a few weeks later this order came. So, I'm going  

1329
02:28:41,600 --> 02:28:46,560
to reiterate that these boards, committees, and 
commissions have been locked up for far too long.  

1330
02:28:46,560 --> 02:28:51,121
Um, if there's expirations of terms, nobody pays 
attention, and it's something that really should  

1331
02:28:51,120 --> 02:28:55,920
be revisited. I think there's one person that 
handles the book and the appointments, and there  

1332
02:28:55,920 --> 02:29:05,520
should be a little bit more um opportunity 
for people to be involved in these boards.

1333
02:29:05,520 --> 02:29:12,241
Anyone else for any comments on this? Um, I 
just also want to say that I did um reach out  

1334
02:29:12,240 --> 02:29:18,000
to the housing authority. You know, they have a 
a very um very usable website. Um, there's also  

1335
02:29:18,000 --> 02:29:24,240
a member on there that's the AFL CIO member, and 
I did ask them um just for kind of transparency  

1336
02:29:24,240 --> 02:29:29,599
purposes to label them as the AFL CIO member. 
They told me they weren't going to do that,  

1337
02:29:29,600 --> 02:29:36,241
but I did um I did ask them to do that. So, I 
think that would be useful for someone who's  

1338
02:29:36,240 --> 02:29:40,160
doing some research like I was doing at the 
time to try and figure out who was who and  

1339
02:29:40,160 --> 02:29:46,160
who was meeting um which qualification. 
But um I just wanted to add that in. So,  

1340
02:29:46,160 --> 02:29:52,960
if I don't have any other questions, I will u 
make I need a motion to adjourn this oversight  

1341
02:29:52,960 --> 02:30:01,359
committee meeting. We have a motion to adjourn 
from councelor Riley. Very good. All right.  

1342
02:30:01,359 --> 02:30:17,759
Let's we're all set here. Thank you so much. 
And we'll move on to we doing rules. rules.

1343
02:31:11,680 --> 02:31:20,400
Okay. So, I would uh before we go into the rules 
committee, um I would like to open the ordinance  

1344
02:31:20,399 --> 02:31:26,799
committee meeting for tonight as well. Um and then 
I will recess the ordinance committee meeting. And  

1345
02:31:26,800 --> 02:31:36,000
now we'll go into rules. Um so for this one um 
this is where we're where councelor Yuen has has  

1346
02:31:36,000 --> 02:31:43,359
put this forward um like the first thing uh when 
we first took office. So this is an ordinance to  

1347
02:31:43,359 --> 02:31:54,719
try to um ensure that we have everything posted on 
the website 48 hours in advance of meetings. So,  

1348
02:31:54,720 --> 02:32:02,400
if there's any additional supplementary material, 
that will go online for everyone in the public to  

1349
02:32:02,399 --> 02:32:10,960
to see. So, um I'm hoping we can kind of keep this 
moving uh tonight pretty fast. So, um because we  

1350
02:32:10,960 --> 02:32:21,280
have a lot to get through. So, councelor Yan, 
do you want to briefly speak to this? Um okay.

1351
02:32:21,280 --> 02:32:24,479
So

1352
02:32:24,479 --> 02:32:28,959
I was going to I was going to read through it so  

1353
02:32:28,960 --> 02:32:44,800
resident can hear. But we read it on 
January. I didn't read the whole it.

1354
02:32:44,800 --> 02:32:51,520
Okay. At least I want to read the title of each 
sections so resident can hear. Then I have a  

1355
02:32:51,520 --> 02:33:03,360
small amendment to uh propose. Okay. So the title 
of this ordinance is uh safeguard transparency,  

1356
02:33:03,359 --> 02:33:12,000
public access to information and the democratic 
participation in city council proceedings.  

1357
02:33:12,000 --> 02:33:27,600
And so section one legislative fundings and the 
democratic purpose. So I should I can read one. So  

1358
02:33:27,600 --> 02:33:34,400
um whereas the city council of the city of Quincy 
affirms that transparent government and informed  

1359
02:33:34,399 --> 02:33:43,439
public participation are fundamental to a healthy 
local democracy. And whereas public confidence in  

1360
02:33:43,439 --> 02:33:50,639
municipal government depends upon depends upon 
the timely and meaningful access to information  

1361
02:33:50,640 --> 02:33:58,480
used by elected officials in deliberation and 
decision making. And whereas Massachusetts  

1362
02:33:58,479 --> 02:34:07,280
General Laws chapter 38 section 20 requires that 
a meeting agenda be posted at least 48 hours prior  

1363
02:34:07,280 --> 02:34:14,080
to an open meeting excluding Saturdays, Sundays, 
and the legal holidays in order to safeguard the  

1364
02:34:14,080 --> 02:34:21,439
public's right to notice and participation. And 
whereas city councilors and members of the public  

1365
02:34:21,439 --> 02:34:29,280
alike must be afforded adequate time to read, 
analyze, and understand the materials related  

1366
02:34:29,280 --> 02:34:36,800
to matters scheduled for consideration by the 
city council. and various supplemental materials  

1367
02:34:36,800 --> 02:34:47,040
including presentation slides, reports, memorandum 
and supporting documents are routinely relied upon  

1368
02:34:47,040 --> 02:34:55,359
during city council meetings and often form the 
basis for policy decisions affecting residents.  

1369
02:34:55,359 --> 02:35:05,519
And whereas the late posting, selective disclosure 
or withholding of such materials in impedes  

1370
02:35:05,520 --> 02:35:14,640
meaningful public engagement, limits informed the 
debate and endmines democratic accountability. And  

1371
02:35:14,640 --> 02:35:22,320
whereas the preparation and the timely posting of 
all necessary materials in advance of city council  

1372
02:35:22,319 --> 02:35:31,920
meetings promotes administrative efficiency, 
ensures professional prep prepar prepar prepared  

1373
02:35:31,920 --> 02:35:40,240
by city department and prevents reliance on lastm 
minute reports or incomplete documentation for  

1374
02:35:40,240 --> 02:35:49,200
matters of significant public public importance. 
And was ensuring that information is is accessible  

1375
02:35:49,200 --> 02:35:56,639
to public at the same time it is provided 
to city councilors strengthens transparency  

1376
02:35:56,640 --> 02:36:04,960
protects democratic norms and promotes trust in 
local government. Now therefore be it ordained  

1377
02:36:04,960 --> 02:36:15,600
by the city council of quincy as follows. So 
definition, agenda, supplemental materials  

1378
02:36:15,600 --> 02:36:22,720
including any document, presentation, 
slider deck, report, memorandum, exhibit,  

1379
02:36:22,720 --> 02:36:30,080
data and other written and electronic material 
prepared for, submitted to, or presented to the  

1380
02:36:30,080 --> 02:36:39,359
city council in connection with an agenda item. 
Emergence. A sudden and enforcing circumstance  

1381
02:36:39,359 --> 02:36:46,240
requiring immediate immediate reaction to protect 
public health, safety or property for which the  

1382
02:36:46,240 --> 02:36:56,160
once public posting of supplementmental 
materials is not practic um practicable.

1383
02:36:56,160 --> 02:37:03,040
Section three timely public posting 
of supplemental materials. This I just  

1384
02:37:03,040 --> 02:37:13,439
quickly say like uh 40 yeah at least publish it 
48 hours before the meeting exclude weekend and  

1385
02:37:13,439 --> 02:37:23,839
holidays and the limitation on late or last minute 
materials. And the section five is a prohibition  

1386
02:37:23,840 --> 02:37:33,200
on first presentation voting to protect a public 
deliberation. To protect informed deliberation and  

1387
02:37:33,200 --> 02:37:40,080
meaningful public engagement, the city council 
shall not take a final action or vote on any  

1388
02:37:40,080 --> 02:37:48,720
proposal, order, ordinance, resolution, contract, 
or other substantive matter at the same meeting at  

1389
02:37:48,720 --> 02:37:56,160
which such matter is first presented to the city 
council. And as an emergence as defined in section  

1390
02:37:56,160 --> 02:38:04,880
two is declare is declared and stated on the 
record later I have a little amendment of this. So  

1391
02:38:04,880 --> 02:38:14,480
section six enforcement and certification section 
seven transparency and compliance reporting. So,  

1392
02:38:14,479 --> 02:38:21,120
city clerk shall submit an a new written 
report to the city council summarized  

1393
02:38:21,120 --> 02:38:27,120
compliance with this chapter including 
the number of city council meetings held,  

1394
02:38:27,120 --> 02:38:34,720
any instance in which emergence exceptions 
were invoked and any known failure to post  

1395
02:38:34,720 --> 02:38:43,920
required a supplemental materials. Such 
report shall be made publicly available.

1396
02:38:43,920 --> 02:38:52,000
So effective date. So basically is this. 
So I have a a little amendment to section  

1397
02:38:52,000 --> 02:38:59,840
five prohibition on first presentation 
voting to protect a public deliberation.  

1398
02:39:00,479 --> 02:39:09,839
So, so over the past six months, I have observed 
several orders being voted on at the same  

1399
02:39:09,840 --> 02:39:17,680
meeting in which they were first presented. 
Examples include councelor Hub's resolution  

1400
02:39:17,680 --> 02:39:26,160
urging passage of Massachusetts House Bill H91 
and the Senate Bill A 2556 to modernize the  

1401
02:39:26,160 --> 02:39:34,800
funding for community media programming. the order 
and the order regarding MSBA accelerated repair  

1402
02:39:34,800 --> 02:39:42,160
program feasibility initiatives and the order 
requesting the administration to provide a two  

1403
02:39:42,160 --> 02:39:49,920
physical year capital bonding plan. So because 
of orders and resolutions do not create a law  

1404
02:39:49,920 --> 02:39:57,840
in the same manner that ordinance do I believe 
it is appropriate to allow some flexibility for  

1405
02:39:57,840 --> 02:40:05,360
routine or straightforward matters. Therefore 
I would like to amend section five so that the  

1406
02:40:05,359 --> 02:40:12,799
prohibition on first presentation voting 
applies only to ordinance and contracts.  

1407
02:40:12,800 --> 02:40:22,880
So specifically I move to strike the words 
proposal order and resolution from the  

1408
02:40:22,880 --> 02:40:32,960
relevant sentence in section five. So that only 
ordinance and contracts and other substantive  

1409
02:40:32,960 --> 02:40:41,600
uh substantive matters and would be prohibited 
from being voted on upon first presentation.

1410
02:40:44,640 --> 02:40:54,640
So um thank you. So uh that's a motion to Yes. 
So mo I um hear a motion to amend section five um  

1411
02:40:54,640 --> 02:41:01,440
striking proposal order and resolution and leaving 
ordinance contract or other substantive matter.  

1412
02:41:01,439 --> 02:41:11,040
Um we don't need a second. Um on the motion. Yes. 
Councelor Hibily. Yes. Thank you Madam Chair. Um,  

1413
02:41:11,040 --> 02:41:17,840
so I I completely agree. Uh, actually, let me 
back up a little bit. So, uh, one of the first  

1414
02:41:17,840 --> 02:41:23,840
conversations I had prior to getting sworn in, I 
want to say maybe it was back in nove, maybe late  

1415
02:41:23,840 --> 02:41:32,240
November, early December, um, reached out to, uh, 
to become president, um, council person Mahoney  

1416
02:41:32,240 --> 02:41:39,200
and brought up that I found that there's a lot 
of materials being provided sort of last minute,  

1417
02:41:39,200 --> 02:41:46,399
right? not not getting things in enough time to 
review it. And the watermark that I used was so  

1418
02:41:46,399 --> 02:41:52,000
with our school committee in the city of Quinsey, 
they receive their package of information on  

1419
02:41:52,000 --> 02:41:58,800
Friday for the following Wednesday meeting, giving 
them the whole weekend and a few days to digest  

1420
02:41:58,800 --> 02:42:05,280
and reach out to professionals, let's say, or 
someone in the administration. And the way things  

1421
02:42:05,280 --> 02:42:10,000
kind of happen on the council is you get something 
on Friday for the Monday meeting and you got to  

1422
02:42:10,000 --> 02:42:14,080
bug people over the weekend to get your answers. 
So I thought that was inefficient and I was hoping  

1423
02:42:14,080 --> 02:42:21,840
we could get a better order. I I completely agree 
with you what we're what the intent of this is the  

1424
02:42:21,840 --> 02:42:32,000
only and I also agree with the I would say 2/3 of 
the amendment that uh is being proposed and so I'm  

1425
02:42:32,000 --> 02:42:37,200
totally fine with resolutions uh council UN did 
a good example of a resolution a lot of times a  

1426
02:42:37,200 --> 02:42:44,559
resolution is simply like back oh there's two good 
examples actually the the QAV thing was simply  

1427
02:42:44,560 --> 02:42:50,000
to author a letter to send to our delegation 
to encourage them to pass something that was  

1428
02:42:50,000 --> 02:42:58,560
before that body uh to modernize the um money that 
the the revenue source for QAV. Another one was  

1429
02:42:58,560 --> 02:43:05,520
very time-sensitive in that there was uh veterans 
benefits that could be impacted and we needed to  

1430
02:43:05,520 --> 02:43:10,081
get our letter in and we uh it didn't it fell off 
the agenda for the previous meeting so we wanted  

1431
02:43:10,080 --> 02:43:13,760
to get it in quickly and it's simply generating 
a letter of support. Right. So those things  

1432
02:43:13,760 --> 02:43:19,520
totally get it. That makes complete sense. Um the 
only thing that gives me pause are things like  

1433
02:43:19,520 --> 02:43:27,760
orders. So I'm complete through you madam chair uh 
council. I'm totally with you with the exception  

1434
02:43:27,760 --> 02:43:33,760
on on proposal and resolution resolution. Sorry. 
Um the only thing I'm not with you on is the order  

1435
02:43:33,760 --> 02:43:41,040
one. And so my question is that um I think so for 
example orders can call for money appropriation.  

1436
02:43:41,040 --> 02:43:45,680
No. Nope. Okay. All right. Um, so I just want 
to think that one through a little bit. I did  

1437
02:43:45,680 --> 02:43:50,720
look at this and thought it was great, but that's 
the only thing that's getting kind of stuck. Um,  

1438
02:43:50,720 --> 02:43:57,280
I'm wondering what types of uh I just hadn't 
had time to think through the types of orders.  

1439
02:43:57,279 --> 02:44:01,200
I thought about the other two, but just hadn't 
had time to think through the other orders. Any  

1440
02:44:01,200 --> 02:44:06,399
I'd like to hear my uh colleagues thoughts on that 
one just to make sure I'm not missing anything.  

1441
02:44:06,399 --> 02:44:16,960
Yeah. Council. Oh, I just answer his question. and 
just answer uh councelor Hub's question. So order  

1442
02:44:16,960 --> 02:44:26,640
I remember that MSBA that accelerated the repair 
that did ask money but it's called order and my  

1443
02:44:26,640 --> 02:44:37,120
that ask administration to provide two fiscal year 
capital bonding plan I also put it also order so  

1444
02:44:37,120 --> 02:44:43,519
um question if anything related money maybe we 
shouldn't vote it on the first time is that is  

1445
02:44:43,520 --> 02:44:47,680
that your suggestion or I I'm trying not not 
just money. Money was the first thing that came  

1446
02:44:47,680 --> 02:44:52,160
to my brain, but I'm just trying to think of, you 
know, we all campaigned on being very thorough,  

1447
02:44:52,160 --> 02:44:55,599
going through the process, taking our time, 
not kind of rushing things through. So,  

1448
02:44:55,600 --> 02:44:59,600
I just that's the only thing that got kind 
of stuck. Um, but I that's why I want to hear  

1449
02:44:59,600 --> 02:45:02,960
from my colleagues, just their opinions on it. 
Does anyone else have something? I was going to  

1450
02:45:02,960 --> 02:45:07,840
say something. I'm raising my hand for myself. 
So, councelor Riley, you're calling yourself.

1451
02:45:10,960 --> 02:45:16,080
So, I I can understand the need to want to um 
get all the information in advance. We've all  

1452
02:45:16,080 --> 02:45:22,000
been saying that coupled with though sometimes the 
need for some flexibility. So, I'm not sure how I  

1453
02:45:22,000 --> 02:45:29,439
feel about the um the order um specific one. Um 
but I understand and this this came up with the  

1454
02:45:29,439 --> 02:45:33,919
um Eastern Nazarine College presentation when we 
had been presented with a slide deck of 30 slides  

1455
02:45:33,920 --> 02:45:39,520
that we had not seen. So, this speaks to the 
need to get this stuff further in advance. Um,  

1456
02:45:39,520 --> 02:45:43,360
and so I want to be supportive of it. I want 
to get the language right and and put forth  

1457
02:45:43,359 --> 02:45:51,120
something that we can all get behind tonight. 
So, um, just to speak on the order question,  

1458
02:45:51,120 --> 02:45:58,880
um, I've noticed that everything that comes before 
us, resolutions, ordinances, anything has an order  

1459
02:45:58,880 --> 02:46:09,200
number. Um so um and as I was look researching 
things um earlier on uh about trying to sort  

1460
02:46:09,200 --> 02:46:16,479
all this stuff out things that are just orders 
I think are kind of directives. So, for example,  

1461
02:46:16,479 --> 02:46:26,719
um the council has the stated right in the in 
the code or in the charter to that if it requests  

1462
02:46:26,720 --> 02:46:33,120
information within um 7 days of the mayor, 
then the the mayor has to come back with that  

1463
02:46:33,120 --> 02:46:39,599
information or through a representative. So, um 
that's what I would consider sort of a directive  

1464
02:46:39,600 --> 02:46:47,520
to say like we would like this information. So, 
um, personally, I would strike order because there  

1465
02:46:47,520 --> 02:46:54,480
might be something that's time-sensitive that 
we would, um, want to be able to, I believe,  

1466
02:46:54,479 --> 02:47:04,639
like with, um, councelor UN's request for the two 
years of, um, capital project um, information. So,  

1467
02:47:04,640 --> 02:47:10,960
given the the deadline that we were under, I think 
that's a useful thing to be able to to say. So,  

1468
02:47:10,960 --> 02:47:20,080
I would I would argue to have order in there while 
also saying of course like whenever possible,  

1469
02:47:20,080 --> 02:47:25,200
we should always give as much notice as possible. 
And I think, you know, when you've when you've  

1470
02:47:25,200 --> 02:47:30,080
brought that up before about some things that 
I've said, let's do this tonight. You know,  

1471
02:47:30,080 --> 02:47:36,960
we're in a hurry. Um I take your point. 
So I think whenever possible, we'll try to  

1472
02:47:36,960 --> 02:47:41,920
um give the maximum amount of of notice and not 
do things in the same night, but there may be  

1473
02:47:41,920 --> 02:47:47,200
times when we need to say like we need this 
information in the next seven days. Yeah. And  

1474
02:47:47,200 --> 02:47:51,840
and and my question doesn't come up from a source 
of knowledge. It comes from a source of being new,  

1475
02:47:51,840 --> 02:47:55,760
right? I just wanted to think it through and to 
see it because that was the only one that I got  

1476
02:47:55,760 --> 02:48:02,560
stuck on when I heard the three that we wanted to 
change. Um, could I propose a what would you call  

1477
02:48:02,560 --> 02:48:08,400
a friendly amendment of just doing the two and 
then revisiting it at a later date if we feel like  

1478
02:48:08,399 --> 02:48:12,559
it's not effective for us? Maybe give us some time 
over the summer to think about it. We could always  

1479
02:48:12,560 --> 02:48:24,880
amend things, right? Just throw it out there. So, 
we just strike a proposal in the resolution. Yeah.

1480
02:48:27,439 --> 02:48:34,000
So I I hear uh councelor Hibli's suggestion. 
So you mean we leave order, ordinance,  

1481
02:48:34,000 --> 02:48:39,840
contract and other substantive 
matter uh in the language? So  

1482
02:48:39,840 --> 02:48:50,400
those four items shouldn't be voted on on 
the first time it was presented. Correct.

1483
02:48:50,399 --> 02:48:56,559
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I honestly don't know enough 
about the distinction between a proposal and an  

1484
02:48:56,560 --> 02:49:01,520
resolution and order. I So resolutions I'm totally 
fine with because I think we have precedent for  

1485
02:49:01,520 --> 02:49:10,960
that. Um I'd be open to my colleagues opinions on 
this, but that was my only that was the one thing.

1486
02:49:10,960 --> 02:49:18,240
Yeah, I am I'm really sorry. I was 
I was having a side conversation. So  

1487
02:49:18,240 --> 02:49:24,319
um what what what were you just saying 
very quickly? I thought we were I just  

1488
02:49:24,319 --> 02:49:30,960
discuss discuss if we leave the order in the 
language or not. I was saying you wanted Yeah,  

1489
02:49:30,960 --> 02:49:36,319
I think so leaving it in means there we're not 
going to vote them through that night. That's the  

1490
02:49:36,319 --> 02:49:40,799
point I was going for. Whatever whatever wording 
change has that effect and that's what I'd like.  

1491
02:49:42,720 --> 02:49:52,720
So you would like to remove order? No, not from 
her motion from her amendment. Apologies. Okay.  

1492
02:49:52,720 --> 02:50:00,800
You would like to leave order um in this remove 
proposal resolution. I'm okay with proposal or  

1493
02:50:00,800 --> 02:50:07,040
resolution being removed. And and council, 
you are accepting? I think I can accept.  

1494
02:50:07,040 --> 02:50:14,000
Okay. You're accepting this friendly amendment. 
So, we have um a motion to amend section five  

1495
02:50:14,000 --> 02:50:22,160
to delete proposal and resolution from this 
list and leave order, ordinance, contract,  

1496
02:50:22,160 --> 02:50:31,680
or other substantive matter. Um, so we don't 
need a second. Um, anyone else on the motion? Uh,  

1497
02:50:31,680 --> 02:50:36,640
count. Oh, I'm sorry. Councelor Riley first 
and then councelor Jacobs. So, I'm a little  

1498
02:50:36,640 --> 02:50:41,280
bit confused. This is where we're kind of dancing 
around this. I I thought councelor Huby, you said  

1499
02:50:41,279 --> 02:50:46,399
that you thought you would want to be able to pass 
an order in certain circumstances. So, we want  

1500
02:50:46,399 --> 02:50:53,920
to No, the opposite. I No, it says the council 
shall not take final action or vote. So, I think  

1501
02:50:53,920 --> 02:50:58,960
we need to really re make sure we're stating what 
I think leaving order in is so whatever whatever  

1502
02:50:58,960 --> 02:51:04,960
doesn't allow us to take action on an order is 
the language that I want. I I I thought it was  

1503
02:51:04,960 --> 02:51:09,680
just ordinance. I thought we were agreeing that 
we would not take action simply on an ordinance,  

1504
02:51:09,680 --> 02:51:16,000
but that proposals, orders, resolutions, and 
I guess we said ordinance and contract was I  

1505
02:51:16,000 --> 02:51:21,439
don't know when we'd vote on a contract, but I 
thought we were trying to say that we would take  

1506
02:51:21,439 --> 02:51:26,479
action on an order if necessary in the same 
night that it was introduced. It's not ideal,  

1507
02:51:26,479 --> 02:51:32,240
but that we would be able to take action if we if 
we but I'm not sure what the language is. Let me  

1508
02:51:32,240 --> 02:51:36,080
let me try to let me try to clear it up. I'll 
do my best. So, there was an amendment offered  

1509
02:51:36,080 --> 02:51:43,760
to remove proposal, order, and resolution. I made 
a friendly amendment to only remove proposal and  

1510
02:51:43,760 --> 02:51:48,000
resolution and leave order in there because 
they're of the nature of orders. But I could  

1511
02:51:48,000 --> 02:51:52,640
be wrong about that. And I say I'm not speaking 
out of authority. I'm speaking out of being new.  

1512
02:51:53,200 --> 02:52:00,080
Yeah, I think I do think that the orders as we're 
talking about them, like if we really needed to do  

1513
02:52:00,080 --> 02:52:09,200
something like the order for the um the two years 
of data, if we struck this from section five,  

1514
02:52:09,200 --> 02:52:19,040
um we it might limit our ability to um No. 
No. Council Riley's right. Shall not take  

1515
02:52:19,040 --> 02:52:22,960
final action or vote. So, you don't want order 
on there. don't want proposal. You don't want  

1516
02:52:22,960 --> 02:52:29,279
resolution. You just want to keep ordinances 
from not passing in one night and contract and  

1517
02:52:29,279 --> 02:52:33,599
contracts. Everything else will be able to be 
passed in one night cuz it says shall not take  

1518
02:52:33,600 --> 02:52:40,720
final action or vote. Okay. Okay. Yeah. All 
right. All right. I think I followed that.

1519
02:52:42,720 --> 02:52:50,000
I think councelor Huby I think councelor 
Haley's question is more so which of these  

1520
02:52:50,000 --> 02:52:59,040
um five um iterations of documents or or items 
that may be before us which are binding and which  

1521
02:52:59,040 --> 02:53:04,560
which are I think councelor Huby you're 
really asking whether an order is binding  

1522
02:53:04,560 --> 02:53:09,440
if we're voting on an order or whether it's 
whether it's something more along the lines of  

1523
02:53:09,439 --> 02:53:21,839
um a resolution or proposal. I think that 
that would probably solve the confusion.

1524
02:53:21,840 --> 02:53:28,640
But the so the order is usually a request, 
right, of we're ordering documents or something  

1525
02:53:28,640 --> 02:53:32,960
to be given to us in a certain amount of 
time, right? That's the only real order  

1526
02:53:32,960 --> 02:53:37,760
that would be that would be in front of us. 
So with that in mind, I guess councelor Hubi,  

1527
02:53:37,760 --> 02:53:46,560
that may determine which avenue you're going. 
Okay. I think I can accept the amendment that  

1528
02:53:46,560 --> 02:53:54,880
uh council put forward. Okay. As originally 
put forward. Okay. So now we have the original  

1529
02:53:54,880 --> 02:54:09,760
amendment. So we would uh remove proposal order 
and resolution from this list. Uh oh wait oh we  

1530
02:54:09,760 --> 02:54:16,240
because we're saying shall not take final 
action on any no yeah or yeah so take away  

1531
02:54:16,240 --> 02:54:22,559
proposal order resolution leave ordinance 
contract or other substantive matter. Um,  

1532
02:54:22,560 --> 02:54:28,720
so now we're back to the original. Um, anyone 
else on Oh, Councelor Jacobs, did you have  

1533
02:54:28,720 --> 02:54:36,880
something? No, no, she should say May. I'm just 
kidding. That was a call back. Um, okay. Uh,  

1534
02:54:36,880 --> 02:54:45,920
councelor um Ryan to be clear, we are removing we 
are keeping ordinance and contract in section five  

1535
02:54:45,920 --> 02:55:00,800
and removing proposal order and and resolution. 
Okay. Okay. Um, shall we take a roll call vote?

1536
02:55:00,800 --> 02:55:05,040
So, that's me. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay. 
It would only be the committee. It would only  

1537
02:55:05,040 --> 02:55:10,240
be the committee members also. So, councelor 
Ash. Yes. Council Hubley. Yes. Council Riley.  

1538
02:55:10,240 --> 02:55:20,000
Yes. Council Yuan. Yes. Chairman. Yes. 
Okay. So, that passes. Um. All right.  

1539
02:55:20,000 --> 02:55:28,000
So, um is there anything anyone 
else wants to or is there a motion  

1540
02:55:28,000 --> 02:55:37,760
um or any other discussion on this um ordinance? 
Councelor Riley, just a motion to move it out. A  

1541
02:55:37,760 --> 02:55:45,280
motion to um accept as amended and move it out 
of committee with a favorable recommendation.

1542
02:55:45,279 --> 02:55:54,240
We don't we don't need a a motion. I should have 
also raised my hand first. So would you actually  

1543
02:55:54,240 --> 02:56:08,160
um we need to add um where in the city code this 
ordinance would go. So, oh yes, chapter. So,  

1544
02:56:08,160 --> 02:56:14,960
yeah. So, be it ordined be ordained by the city 
council of Quincy that the general ordinance of  

1545
02:56:14,960 --> 02:56:21,120
the city of Quincy be amended by adding a new 
chapter entitled transparency and the public  

1546
02:56:21,120 --> 02:56:31,359
access to city council materials. 
So, just add a new chapter in it.

1547
02:56:31,359 --> 02:56:36,559
It would really it would really fall 
into the city council. Okay. So,  

1548
02:56:36,560 --> 02:56:44,400
so um so the council clerk has suggested putting 
it in the code where the city council is where the  

1549
02:56:44,399 --> 02:56:50,479
city council rules live which I think makes 
sense. So that would be chapter 19 and then  

1550
02:56:50,479 --> 02:57:00,160
um we would be adding a section 9. This would be 
chapter 19 section 9. So, um, Councelor Riley,  

1551
02:57:00,160 --> 02:57:09,920
is that all right to if I make a motion to amend 
this to add, uh, this ordinance to chapter 19,  

1552
02:57:09,920 --> 02:57:19,440
section 9? Okay. And and um any on on the motion, 
councelor Ash? I'm not not on that amendment. So,  

1553
02:57:19,439 --> 02:57:26,080
if you want to vote on that, that's fine. 
Okay. Uh, anyone else on that amendment? Okay.  

1554
02:57:26,080 --> 02:57:33,600
Um shall we take a roll call vote on that motion 
to approve um as amended with council um on  

1555
02:57:33,600 --> 02:57:39,600
putting it into chapter 19 section 9. Councelor 
Ash, yes. Council Hubley, yes. Council Riley,  

1556
02:57:39,600 --> 02:57:49,201
yes. Council, yes. Chair McKe, yes. Okay. So, 
councelor Ash. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think  

1557
02:57:49,200 --> 02:57:56,399
I would suggest and make a friendly amendment 
to change the word substantive to dispositive.  

1558
02:57:56,399 --> 02:58:05,679
Dispositive. Yes. I think that that um so this 
reads um vote on any ordinance, contract or  

1559
02:58:05,680 --> 02:58:10,800
other substantive matter at the same meeting. I 
think just dispositive may be the the better word  

1560
02:58:10,800 --> 02:58:18,080
to accomplish the meaning there. So instead 
of substantive, change that to dispositive.  

1561
02:58:19,040 --> 02:58:26,000
Um, do you do you accept that as a friendly 
amendment, council? I guess first of all,  

1562
02:58:26,000 --> 02:58:30,960
could we have a definition of dispositive? I 
don't I don't actually know what that means.  

1563
02:58:30,960 --> 02:58:38,560
Yes. Dispositive means having the power to decide, 
resolve, or determine the outcome of an issue.  

1564
02:58:38,560 --> 02:58:44,241
Having the having the power to decide, resolve, 
or determine the outcome of an issue. I guess  

1565
02:58:44,240 --> 02:58:49,359
my my fear with substantive is something maybe 
substantive to one of us and not substantive sub  

1566
02:58:49,359 --> 02:58:55,920
substantive to all of us. Okay. So something now 
we're really going getting going going down the  

1567
02:58:55,920 --> 02:59:04,800
the weeds. Um I I I think dispositive accomplishes 
the what is sought with the um the essence of okay  

1568
02:59:04,800 --> 02:59:14,640
this ordinance. We have a motion to amend section 
five to change the word substantive to dispositive  

1569
02:59:14,640 --> 02:59:24,480
in the list of things or other um dispositive 
matter at the same meeting. um on the motion. Oh,  

1570
02:59:24,479 --> 02:59:32,080
council Yuen just to clarify. So council lash so 
if you change it to this positive means will be  

1571
02:59:32,080 --> 02:59:41,040
no no discussion or like will because you said 
substantive maybe someone think it's substantive  

1572
02:59:41,040 --> 02:59:50,240
another one is not but if you change it 
to dispartive means no argument no no dis

1573
02:59:50,240 --> 02:59:56,399
that through you madam chair dispositive would 
be the the adjective so to to discern the type of  

1574
02:59:56,399 --> 03:00:06,879
matter So the a dispositive matter is um a matter 
that um where we have the power to decide in one  

1575
03:00:06,880 --> 03:00:14,560
evening. What would come out of voting on that 
would be something that would um be conclusory.  

1576
03:00:14,560 --> 03:00:21,201
We'll say for that that'd be I'm not not rehearsed 
here on this but um subst my my fear with the term  

1577
03:00:21,200 --> 03:00:27,279
substantive is that we we I could think something 
was substantive and important and another  

1578
03:00:27,279 --> 03:00:34,319
um of my fellow counselors could feel differently. 
Right. Okay. So it's um it's substantive is a bit  

1579
03:00:34,319 --> 03:00:40,559
subjective and dispositive is less subjective 
where it would be like something that would have  

1580
03:00:40,560 --> 03:00:50,400
would be decided by that. Yes. Yes. Okay. So, 
any other discussion on the motion? Okay. Uh,  

1581
03:00:50,399 --> 03:00:55,359
can we take a can we take a roll call vote? 
Sure. Council Ash. Yes. Council Hubley. Yes.  

1582
03:00:55,359 --> 03:01:03,759
Council Riley. Yes. Council Yuan. Yes. Council M. 
Yes. Okay. So, I we might have to um take another  

1583
03:01:03,760 --> 03:01:10,560
motion then to approve this as amended unless 
there's no other further discussion on this.  

1584
03:01:10,560 --> 03:01:16,720
Motion to approve as amended. Okay. Motion 
to approve as amended. Councelor uh Riley,  

1585
03:01:16,720 --> 03:01:22,400
um can you please take a roll call vote again? 
Council Ash, yes. Council Hubley, yes. Council  

1586
03:01:22,399 --> 03:01:31,679
Riley, yes. Council Yuan, yes. Jenna McKe, yes. 
Five passes. Okay, thank you. Um I think that's  

1587
03:01:31,680 --> 03:01:39,600
the only thing that we had in rules committee. 
So um now I will adjourn rules committee.  

1588
03:01:40,479 --> 03:02:05,359
Motion to adjurnn. Okay. And now we will uh 
switch gears to ordinance committee. Um I want to

1589
03:02:05,359 --> 03:02:16,080
Could

1590
03:02:16,080 --> 03:02:22,080
you pass?

1591
03:02:22,080 --> 03:02:29,120
Okay. So,

1592
03:02:29,120 --> 03:02:39,279
so now we are moving into the ordinances um 
for the raises that were passed in 2024. Um  

1593
03:02:39,279 --> 03:02:48,319
I just wanted to give a little update. Um, so 
I had a bunch of different versions of this  

1594
03:02:48,319 --> 03:02:53,359
because I was struggling to understand 
like whether we could repeal something,  

1595
03:02:53,359 --> 03:03:00,399
etc. The the importance of the word repealed to me 
was because I was concerned about pension issues.  

1596
03:03:00,399 --> 03:03:08,799
Um, that that there existed um on the books a 
law that said the salary is a certain amount  

1597
03:03:08,800 --> 03:03:17,040
um and how that would affect the pension. 
So, um, Solicitor Timmons asked the, um,  

1598
03:03:17,040 --> 03:03:25,519
Quincsey Retirement Board, uh, for clarification 
on this point and sent an email, um, uh, where  

1599
03:03:25,520 --> 03:03:34,320
the interim executive director of the Quinsey 
Retirement System, Anthony Sarnakiaro, um, said,  

1600
03:03:34,319 --> 03:03:40,799
"You are correct. The mayor's retirement allowance 
will be calculated based on his three highest  

1601
03:03:40,800 --> 03:03:48,480
years of regular compensation received for which 
he received creditable service and not the amount  

1602
03:03:48,479 --> 03:03:57,599
in the ordinance. So um that's comforting. I then 
asked um C letter Timonss if the mayor would be  

1603
03:03:57,600 --> 03:04:06,800
amendable to additionally um writing a letter to 
say that he would not try to appeal this. Um um I  

1604
03:04:06,800 --> 03:04:18,800
haven't seen my email for a few hours. Solicitor 
Timonss, is there any any update on that?

1605
03:04:30,960 --> 03:04:41,520
Yes. Uh, it's still off. It's back on. Turned it 
on. Um, your your question is whether the mayor's  

1606
03:04:41,520 --> 03:04:47,201
going to write a letter and I have not got an 
answer for that yet. You asked me on Friday.  

1607
03:04:47,200 --> 03:04:54,319
I didn't get to see the mayor on Friday and he 
was not around today. Um I'll suggest to you that  

1608
03:04:54,319 --> 03:05:03,840
I I'm not quite certain. I mean any letter the 
mayor sent you would be um a word that Mr. Walker  

1609
03:05:03,840 --> 03:05:11,760
particularly likes. Nougatory, it's not going to 
mean anything. Um the fact of the matter is the  

1610
03:05:11,760 --> 03:05:18,960
Quinsey Retirement Board supervised by Pier Act, 
they determine what the pension is and it doesn't,  

1611
03:05:18,960 --> 03:05:24,880
you know, there's it doesn't matter what the mayor 
thinks or what a court appeal might be. There's  

1612
03:05:24,880 --> 03:05:33,040
a formula and it's based on whatever money you've 
paid into the system and that money is taken from  

1613
03:05:33,040 --> 03:05:41,359
your actual paycheck. So what was explained in 
that letter to you that's outcome determinative  

1614
03:05:41,359 --> 03:05:47,040
here. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. So 
um and I don't know if you had a further chance  

1615
03:05:47,040 --> 03:05:52,960
to look at these ordinances that I gave you. I 
I think I made all the changes you suggested.  

1616
03:05:52,960 --> 03:06:00,240
Were there any additional issues? No. I I I got 
them this morning there and they're all brief,  

1617
03:06:00,240 --> 03:06:06,639
which that's always a good thing. brevity 
can frequently result in better clarity and  

1618
03:06:06,640 --> 03:06:12,720
um the amendments you made are they're 
they're actually the ones I suggested  

1619
03:06:12,720 --> 03:06:20,241
uh quite some time ago. It was really the word 
repeal that was an issue and I'm delighted we  

1620
03:06:20,240 --> 03:06:29,599
got that resolved. Okay. Yes. Thank you. So, um, 
I had sent my ordinances that I solely wrote and  

1621
03:06:29,600 --> 03:06:37,680
there was no outside counsel involved to solicitor 
Timonss and he was kind enough to um, make some  

1622
03:06:37,680 --> 03:06:45,120
suggestions and I have just sent those around 
here. I'm comfortable not using the word repeal  

1623
03:06:45,120 --> 03:06:51,279
um and instead using the word delete in some cases 
or amend in some cases um because we specify what  

1624
03:06:51,279 --> 03:06:57,120
the salary is and because we have this letter 
from from the Quincy Retirement Board. So,  

1625
03:06:57,120 --> 03:07:07,680
thank you for getting that. Um so, um I move to 
um well, I guess we should do them one by one. Um,  

1626
03:07:07,680 --> 03:07:22,320
I move to um accept uh order 2026 029 as amended 
uh in the documents before you. This is uh setting  

1627
03:07:22,319 --> 03:07:30,559
the mayor's salary um uh to the current salary 
that he's actually receiving and and and not the  

1628
03:07:30,560 --> 03:07:45,121
$285,000. Um so are yes on the motion. Yes. Thank 
thank you Madam Chair. Um this particular item's  

1629
03:07:45,120 --> 03:07:56,240
been going around for the last two years. It's 
been a long 48 months whatever 24 months. Um,  

1630
03:07:56,240 --> 03:08:04,800
you know what? What's weird to me is the mayor 
stated in October 2025 that he was going to come  

1631
03:08:04,800 --> 03:08:15,840
in with the lower amount from 285 to 225,000. Um 
he stated that you know to the newspapers to the  

1632
03:08:15,840 --> 03:08:22,800
public and with the condition that he wouldn't 
proceed with anything until the new term had  

1633
03:08:22,800 --> 03:08:30,160
come in and the and whomever the new counselors 
were going to be would have an opportunity to  

1634
03:08:30,160 --> 03:08:41,599
um speak about the $225,000 adjustment. Um he so 
council order 2026-012 came in on January 20th of  

1635
03:08:41,600 --> 03:08:53,040
2026 with this new council. So it's $60,000 less 
of what is the $285,000 proposal. So he the mayor  

1636
03:08:53,040 --> 03:09:00,479
had already suggested that he wanted to go down 
to his salary the 225. So what confuses me is  

1637
03:09:00,479 --> 03:09:10,000
why don't we just talk about that? Why why why do 
we have to do this? So, um, as we've discussed in  

1638
03:09:10,000 --> 03:09:16,240
previous ordinance committee meetings, we're going 
to, I think, do this in two parts by necessity.  

1639
03:09:16,240 --> 03:09:25,840
Um, because, um, the first part is repealing, 
deleting, amending the ordinances that still exist  

1640
03:09:25,840 --> 03:09:32,640
on the books. So, the the ordinances that still 
exist on the books have these higher salaries.  

1641
03:09:32,640 --> 03:09:39,360
um even if the mayor is not taking them, they just 
still exist. Um so the first step is to sort of  

1642
03:09:39,359 --> 03:09:48,160
clear the paperwork and um undo that. And then 
the second step, which um I would like to still  

1643
03:09:48,160 --> 03:09:58,880
pursue beginning in the in the fall, is to discuss 
the 225, discuss all the other numbers as well.  

1644
03:09:58,880 --> 03:10:06,800
um so and and have like a rigorous discussion 
with data from comparable um positions etc. So  

1645
03:10:06,800 --> 03:10:13,279
just to clarify I should have said that before 
this is just these three orders before you are  

1646
03:10:13,279 --> 03:10:20,639
just trying to sort of clear things away so that 
we can start from scratch and um and that's what  

1647
03:10:20,640 --> 03:10:24,480
we're what we're doing here. That's why it's going 
back to the original salary. So you're going to  

1648
03:10:24,479 --> 03:10:30,000
come in the fall fall of 2026. Yes. September. 
Yes. Okay. So, you're going to come back in  

1649
03:10:30,000 --> 03:10:35,279
September after this break or you know and we'll 
start discussing you start discussing the 225. So,  

1650
03:10:35,279 --> 03:10:41,679
that'll be on the table. Yeah. Okay. That that's 
good clarification because in my thoughts is if  

1651
03:10:41,680 --> 03:10:46,560
you're going to do this, why don't we go right 
into the 225 and start discussing it now. So,  

1652
03:10:46,560 --> 03:10:51,440
you want to collect data. Is that what you 
want to do? Want to collect data? Want to have  

1653
03:10:51,439 --> 03:10:58,799
discussions with everyone. So we um yeah, this 
was one of our top priorities for a lot of us  

1654
03:10:58,800 --> 03:11:06,160
um when we got into office and so um I would 
I would like to get this part of it done  

1655
03:11:06,160 --> 03:11:10,479
uh before the break and then we will come back 
and discuss it. So me and you have a clarification  

1656
03:11:10,479 --> 03:11:15,040
that we're 225 is going to come in in the fall 
in September and we will all be able to speak on  

1657
03:11:15,040 --> 03:11:20,000
that will be part of the discussion. Yes. Okay, 
that's fair enough. I just for you know you're  

1658
03:11:20,000 --> 03:11:24,960
running the ordinance so I don't know what your 
thinking is because was we don't talk outside of  

1659
03:11:24,960 --> 03:11:30,080
this so I don't know when you're coming in with 
these particular items and that's been proposed  

1660
03:11:30,080 --> 03:11:37,040
back in January. So I would have thought that we 
were going to speak about it in in conjunction  

1661
03:11:37,040 --> 03:11:41,600
with this particular item. It kind of goes hand in 
hand to be honest with you. I think I think in the  

1662
03:11:41,600 --> 03:11:48,880
past I've I've talked about separating it out so 
that we could do um um a second one, but I realize  

1663
03:11:48,880 --> 03:11:56,480
that it is quite confusing. I mean honestly this 
this issue of salaries and what we can and cannot  

1664
03:11:56,479 --> 03:12:04,559
do legally has been really naughty and I think um 
actually is is the case for a lot of communities  

1665
03:12:04,560 --> 03:12:10,000
around the state because you have two laws that 
say directly conflicting things about what you're  

1666
03:12:10,000 --> 03:12:18,240
allowed to do. Um and this council can't do 
certain things that affect our salary now. So,  

1667
03:12:18,240 --> 03:12:24,160
we've written some of us have written letters for 
this term, etc. It's just gotten it's been very  

1668
03:12:24,160 --> 03:12:29,840
confusing. So, he he did write a letter, you know, 
deferring it just like the counselor, the original  

1669
03:12:29,840 --> 03:12:34,880
counselors did. Yeah. But we but it's still on 
the books. So, that's what we're doing here. We're  

1670
03:12:34,880 --> 03:12:43,680
just trying to clear the books from the previous 
ordinance that set the salary at $285,000.

1671
03:12:43,680 --> 03:12:47,520
It's still It's still confusing 
me because he's never received it.  

1672
03:12:47,520 --> 03:12:53,041
He's never taken it. I don't think the sometimes 
people in the public to be honest with you still  

1673
03:12:53,040 --> 03:12:57,439
to this day think he took the the salary 
increase. They still don't know that. Yeah.  

1674
03:12:57,439 --> 03:13:04,080
It's cuz it's headlines. It's Mr. uh Bandino's up 
there. He's got like great headlines. Councelor  

1675
03:13:04,080 --> 03:13:09,760
um Mahoney has a comment and you you don't see 
the true facts that you know and I'm just trying  

1676
03:13:09,760 --> 03:13:15,760
to state the true facts. I think councelor 
Mahoney can speak now. Sure. Go right ahead.  

1677
03:13:17,359 --> 03:13:24,080
So the facts are that there was no there was 
a one report and this council said yes to that  

1678
03:13:24,080 --> 03:13:28,160
one report for 285 and the public really was 
upset. There was a signature drive and that's  

1679
03:13:28,160 --> 03:13:32,880
also out there and I think the signatures were 
due back. I'm not sure where that stands but  

1680
03:13:32,880 --> 03:13:38,160
that was to 183. The mayor did put in did put 
his own ordinance in for 225 and he did defer  

1681
03:13:38,160 --> 03:13:42,319
his salary is what he was calling a deferral but 
he couldn't take that salary because the state  

1682
03:13:42,319 --> 03:13:47,040
came back ethics came back and said you couldn't 
take it. ethics also came back and said that the  

1683
03:13:47,040 --> 03:13:49,920
counselors couldn't take it. So, it's not like 
you were doing a big thing. You were just doing  

1684
03:13:49,920 --> 03:13:54,239
what the ethics told you to do. So, where we're 
at right now is you have an ordinance on the  

1685
03:13:54,239 --> 03:13:58,319
table that says the mayor salaries at 285. We're 
going to we're going to I'm not going to try to  

1686
03:13:58,319 --> 03:14:04,000
use the right word. We're going to delete amend 
delete that salary back to the 150. We have the  

1687
03:14:04,000 --> 03:14:08,720
we have the ordinance that the mayor put in for 
225 and we will probably be getting soon enough  

1688
03:14:08,720 --> 03:14:14,560
from the judge what the what our next call will 
be whether that's accepting it or letting it go  

1689
03:14:14,560 --> 03:14:19,600
onto a ballot but my guess is know we will want 
to have that accepted here. So we'll be at 183 to  

1690
03:14:19,600 --> 03:14:24,960
225 and that's phase two of this. This is really 
just bookkeeping to make sure that we're taking  

1691
03:14:24,960 --> 03:14:29,439
care of this where there's no mistakes of how 
we're handling it. There was not the big the big  

1692
03:14:29,439 --> 03:14:34,160
question that we had here was the word repeal. I 
think that's all fixed now. So, this just simply  

1693
03:14:34,160 --> 03:14:39,439
takes takes it back to the same place it was where 
currently Mayor Ko is being paid. I don't think  

1694
03:14:39,439 --> 03:14:45,120
there's anybody that's suggesting that he's not. 
The salary would go up at the next election. And I  

1695
03:14:45,120 --> 03:14:49,200
think the conversations that we have to have here 
in the council have to happen in the next 6 months  

1696
03:14:49,200 --> 03:14:54,000
so that we can come to that conclusion as to what 
the salaries will be for both council and for the  

1697
03:14:54,000 --> 03:14:59,040
mayor. And I think it will be a fair conversation 
that will be driven by data that we'll all have  

1698
03:14:59,040 --> 03:15:06,479
and it may be someplace between 183 and 225. He 
set the cap at 225. It was two it was 285 when  

1699
03:15:06,479 --> 03:15:11,919
he came back and said, you know, I'll take 225. 
That's great, but that's not it's not the the job  

1700
03:15:11,920 --> 03:15:16,480
of this council is to come up with the data that 
actually supports what that salary is going to be.  

1701
03:15:16,479 --> 03:15:20,239
So, I just want to make sure we explain that. the 
will of the people would have been if that ballot  

1702
03:15:20,239 --> 03:15:24,639
question got onto the ballot, it would have been 
last November that would have been done, but that  

1703
03:15:24,640 --> 03:15:29,280
didn't happen. So, that's also kind of tied up in 
court. So, we're just trying to get this passed.  

1704
03:15:29,279 --> 03:15:34,559
I believe the goal tonight is to get this past 
this step so that we can come back in September  

1705
03:15:34,560 --> 03:15:40,480
and start doing the due diligence that we said we 
would do to be able to come up to that position of  

1706
03:15:40,479 --> 03:15:45,519
what the salary should be for the mayor. I don't 
think I really don't think anybody here I know  

1707
03:15:45,520 --> 03:15:50,081
I haven't said that the mayor doesn't deserve 
a raise or the person who sits in the mayor's  

1708
03:15:50,080 --> 03:15:54,880
seat. We always keep saying it's not the person, 
it's the it's the position. But in this particular  

1709
03:15:54,880 --> 03:15:58,960
case, I do believe that 285 was for the person, 
not the position. I think that's the difference  

1710
03:15:58,960 --> 03:16:03,200
there and that's what that's what residents felt. 
Now we're taking this conversation back to say  

1711
03:16:03,200 --> 03:16:08,080
this is about the position and now we want to be 
fair about what we're doing and whether that it  

1712
03:16:08,080 --> 03:16:12,559
lands at 183 because some people feel strongly 
that it's 183 and some people feel strongly that  

1713
03:16:12,560 --> 03:16:18,161
it's should be 285 and other people feel it should 
be 225 but the cap is now 225 because the mayor  

1714
03:16:18,160 --> 03:16:22,960
brought it in at 225. So that will be the cap and 
the base will be 183 because there was a petition  

1715
03:16:22,960 --> 03:16:26,560
out there I believe when the jud judge comes back 
to tell us and I think that's where we're at. So,  

1716
03:16:26,560 --> 03:16:30,800
I think I I'm perfectly okay to move on, but I 
just wanted to make sure that I stated that for  

1717
03:16:30,800 --> 03:16:36,000
the record. So, you know, because there's nobody 
that's trying to fool anybody or cause any damage  

1718
03:16:36,000 --> 03:16:47,760
to anybody. Thank you, Councelor Hubley. Okay. 
Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, so I came in prepared  

1719
03:16:47,760 --> 03:16:54,080
to support the contention that um, Solicitor 
Timman said about the repeal thing. I reached  

1720
03:16:54,080 --> 03:16:59,600
out to other people and work in municipals and 
talked to one that's been on for like 17 years or  

1721
03:16:59,600 --> 03:17:05,201
so. Um he was like, "Yeah, if if you do the repeal 
thing, that will kind of wipe everything out." So,  

1722
03:17:05,200 --> 03:17:14,800
I'm very happy to hear that uh tonight we're 
it's I want to commend um Chair McKe with a K  

1723
03:17:14,800 --> 03:17:22,880
um for uh for for collaborating with Mr. 
Timmons and following his guidance. I think  

1724
03:17:22,880 --> 03:17:28,080
that's a good example of working together with 
the administration. So, I appreciate that and  

1725
03:17:28,080 --> 03:17:36,559
um so I'm prepared to support these, but I'd 
like to hear from my colleagues. Councelor Riley.

1726
03:17:36,560 --> 03:17:41,280
Yeah. So, could we just get an update on where 
the ballot signatures sit? I thought that we  

1727
03:17:41,279 --> 03:17:46,160
were supposed to have them certified last week. 
Um which would have been nice to know where that  

1728
03:17:46,160 --> 03:17:58,399
was where is that stand legally? I don't think we 
I certainly don't know. My solicit my intention  

1729
03:17:58,399 --> 03:18:06,399
um just to share it in with the body um because 
I guess if those signatures are Could we just get  

1730
03:18:06,399 --> 03:18:12,319
an update? Okay, thank you. So, Timonss, do you 
have an update that you can provide the council on  

1731
03:18:12,319 --> 03:18:22,479
um where the signature petition the the petition 
signatures stand? Um I do not really I have not  

1732
03:18:22,479 --> 03:18:28,479
been directly handling that case. I'm aware of 
it and I know that there was some talk going on  

1733
03:18:28,479 --> 03:18:37,120
at the end of last week. Um, I saw one of the 
plaintiffs here, um, someone with whom I've  

1734
03:18:37,120 --> 03:18:41,840
spoke on a few occasions. I was going to try 
to catch him to see what his thoughts were,  

1735
03:18:41,840 --> 03:18:48,800
but there was some talk going on. I know that 
the city clerk's office has completed what the  

1736
03:18:48,800 --> 03:18:57,520
court ordered regarding uh the count, but both 
sides, the lawyers on both sides have um have  

1737
03:18:57,520 --> 03:19:04,720
questions that they're sending back to the court 
to get some clarification. So, it's still kind of  

1738
03:19:04,720 --> 03:19:16,560
floating but clo closer to an end point. So, and 
then when um whenever this comes to whenever the  

1739
03:19:16,560 --> 03:19:27,201
various parties um come to a mutually agreed upon 
decision um potentially that that language could  

1740
03:19:27,200 --> 03:19:36,800
come back to this body for um acceptance as is. 
No, it'll it'll be a court order. a court order,  

1741
03:19:36,800 --> 03:19:43,440
but the actions of the body tonight could end up 
mooding that case. That's another question I'm not  

1742
03:19:43,439 --> 03:19:50,080
fully aware of. Um, we'll have to see. Okay. 
Yeah. All right. So, a court order is a court  

1743
03:19:50,080 --> 03:19:57,519
order. Now, it's not going to come back here for 
any reason. Okay. So, I think um I think there's  

1744
03:19:57,520 --> 03:20:06,400
so much uncertainty with what's going on with the 
court that um I I think we can move forward on  

1745
03:20:06,399 --> 03:20:14,879
um deleting, amending, repealing these. Um yes, 
councelor Riley was my question. Oh, I'm sorry.  

1746
03:20:14,880 --> 03:20:21,760
Go ahead. So, Solicitor Timmons, I guess that was 
my follow-up question to you. If we take action  

1747
03:20:21,760 --> 03:20:26,880
on this tonight, is it going to impact that court 
case in any way? To the best of your knowledge,  

1748
03:20:26,880 --> 03:20:31,920
I realize you're not the one overseeing that, but 
well, the essential question I don't want to do.  

1749
03:20:31,920 --> 03:20:36,480
Let me just Sorry, don't mean to interrupt. 
I don't want to further complicate this. So,  

1750
03:20:36,479 --> 03:20:43,040
that's my question is if we take the action and 
we vote this positively tonight, is it going to  

1751
03:20:43,040 --> 03:20:49,680
affect the court case in any way to the best of 
your knowledge? Okay. It's been my position all  

1752
03:20:49,680 --> 03:21:00,160
along and um you know I I don't believe that it 
has ever been not accepted by the council that the  

1753
03:21:00,160 --> 03:21:07,359
law is clear that the council sets the salary for 
the mayor and the city councilors. So the action  

1754
03:21:07,359 --> 03:21:16,080
you're taking now is well within your authority. 
um because of how things played out a year ago,  

1755
03:21:16,080 --> 03:21:23,200
uh there was a group of um folks who filed a 
lawsuit um because they didn't agree with how  

1756
03:21:23,200 --> 03:21:32,399
they had played out. But I think, you know, I'll 
definitely be reporting the outcome of what goes  

1757
03:21:32,399 --> 03:21:38,719
on here at this meeting. And I know the judge has 
been monitoring whether the council was going to  

1758
03:21:38,720 --> 03:21:45,200
take action on these motions because these motions 
address the essential questions. Um, I can't  

1759
03:21:45,200 --> 03:21:52,880
speak for the plaintiffs, but these motions are 
returning the salaries to what they were um at the  

1760
03:21:52,880 --> 03:21:58,880
time when the plaintiffs brought their lawsuit. 
But it may be the case that they have some  

1761
03:21:58,880 --> 03:22:06,880
further discontent and that they'll be continue to 
pursue it. I'm just not certain. But I think that  

1762
03:22:06,880 --> 03:22:13,279
um you know these are autonomous rails and that 
the council is acting within its authority that  

1763
03:22:13,279 --> 03:22:19,679
you could have done this last January or a little 
later. I think if we hadn't if uh the chair and I  

1764
03:22:19,680 --> 03:22:25,201
hadn't got into the little squabble about repeal, 
it probably would have been done because the  

1765
03:22:25,200 --> 03:22:34,880
essential components of it are are being 
addressed. Thank you. Okay. Councelor Ash.  

1766
03:22:34,880 --> 03:22:39,920
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, so I'm just 
looking at the the docket online. It looks like  

1767
03:22:39,920 --> 03:22:48,640
the initial deadline for um the city to look again 
at the um signatures was June 18th at 5:00 p.m.  

1768
03:22:48,640 --> 03:22:54,000
which would have been last Thursday. I believe 
there was a joint motion to extend meaning both  

1769
03:22:54,000 --> 03:23:01,840
parties, the city and um the plaintiffs in each 
uh of both in both cases filed the joint motion  

1770
03:23:01,840 --> 03:23:08,239
to extend that deadline to this Friday at 5, which 
was allowed. So, as far as as far as I can tell,  

1771
03:23:08,239 --> 03:23:14,239
it looks like the the the current deadline um for 
the clerk's office to revisit those signatures is  

1772
03:23:14,239 --> 03:23:24,399
this Friday at 5. Thank you for looking that up. 
All right. Um, so I have a motion um on the table  

1773
03:23:24,399 --> 03:23:36,399
to accept this amendment in front of us uh for 
202629 uh deleting the $285,000 in the ordinance  

1774
03:23:36,399 --> 03:23:46,719
and um inserting the 15943. Anyone else on the 
motion? Councelor Deona. Thank you, M. Thank you,  

1775
03:23:46,720 --> 03:23:52,880
Madam Chair. I appreciate the clarification that 
we were going to revisit this in September. Um,  

1776
03:23:52,880 --> 03:23:57,840
for me, the 225 is already on the table and for 
me, I don't I don't think there's no need for  

1777
03:23:57,840 --> 03:24:03,920
this to be honest with you. To just take it a step 
further, he's already agreed to go to 225. It's on  

1778
03:24:03,920 --> 03:24:13,760
the books. 2026-012 on January 20th. It's on this 
new city council. Um, that'll be my reasoning,  

1779
03:24:13,760 --> 03:24:20,080
by the way. That'll be my reasoning that the 225 
is already proposed and on there. So, no, no,  

1780
03:24:20,080 --> 03:24:28,960
no note taken, please. Um, no, because sometimes 
it's written. I just want to clarify. So, will So,  

1781
03:24:28,960 --> 03:24:34,640
you'll be voting no. I assume you're saying voting 
no on this because the 225 already exists, right?  

1782
03:24:34,640 --> 03:24:40,720
Okay. So, does it for me? It there's no need to do 
this. Is there anyone else on this motion? Okay,  

1783
03:24:40,720 --> 03:24:45,760
let's let's um move. We have two more to 
get through. So, um, could you please count,  

1784
03:24:45,760 --> 03:24:51,440
uh, call the role? Council Ash, yes. Council 
Deon, no. Council Hubley, yes. Council Jacobs,  

1785
03:24:51,439 --> 03:24:59,679
yes. Council Mahoney, yes. Council Riley, yes. 
Council Ryan, yes. Council Yuan, yes. Okay,  

1786
03:24:59,680 --> 03:25:07,760
thank you. It passes. Uh, 8 to1. Um, just 
for those at home, um 8 to1, Council Dabona,  

1787
03:25:07,760 --> 03:25:18,239
uh, the the no vote. Um, okay. 2026 030. Oh, I'm 
sorry. We pass as amended. Yeah. Yes. Thank you.  

1788
03:25:18,239 --> 03:25:24,800
Um, do I need to make another I'm going to put you 
down as the motion and I'll call on it. Okay. So,  

1789
03:25:24,800 --> 03:25:30,239
that was just to accept the amendment to Oh, that 
was Oh, okay. That was to accept the amendment.  

1790
03:25:30,239 --> 03:25:41,279
Now, we have to accept the motion as the order 
as amended. Yes. Okay. So, um, councelor Riley,  

1791
03:25:41,279 --> 03:25:47,359
would you like to make Oh, just a motion. Yeah. 
Okay. So, a motion to accept as amended. Okay.  

1792
03:25:47,359 --> 03:25:52,719
And then, uh, can we do a roll call vote, please? 
Council Ash. Council Deon, no. Council Hubley,  

1793
03:25:52,720 --> 03:26:00,080
yes. Council Jacobs, yes. Council Mahoney, yes. 
Council Riley, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Council  

1794
03:26:00,080 --> 03:26:10,160
Yuan, yes. Shannon McCree, yes. 8 to1. Okay. 8 to1 
passes. Uh, councelor Deon as the no. 2026 030. Um  

1795
03:26:10,160 --> 03:26:21,519
I make a motion to um accept uh this amendment 
that sits before us that puts the council salary  

1796
03:26:21,520 --> 03:26:33,840
from um 44,500 um back to well to 29,800 because 
we cannot change our own salary by ordinance  

1797
03:26:33,840 --> 03:26:44,239
during this term. It'll have to start January 3rd, 
2028 at the start of the next term. On the motion,

1798
03:26:44,239 --> 03:26:47,840
councelor Deona.

1799
03:26:47,840 --> 03:26:53,600
Councelor Deona, on the motion. Thank you. Thank 
you, Madam Chair. Um, I appreciate you amending  

1800
03:26:53,600 --> 03:27:00,161
this and writing it a little bit differently, 
which is uh which is good. Um, let's take a step  

1801
03:27:00,160 --> 03:27:06,639
back here. Let's let's go into this one a little 
bit here. Um you write in here the deferment  

1802
03:27:06,640 --> 03:27:13,760
letter which was not aware of the new city 
councilors um because it was confidential at the  

1803
03:27:13,760 --> 03:27:23,120
time. So all city nine counselors signed it. They 
were deferring their raise back in October of 2024  

1804
03:27:23,120 --> 03:27:31,279
to be pushed to January of 2026. That's if you won 
your if you won the seat. Um and we did that. take  

1805
03:27:31,279 --> 03:27:41,439
it a step further with the deliberations of that 
salary. It was originally salaried at 40 47,500.

1806
03:27:41,439 --> 03:27:47,919
The motion was made by councelor Ash to to 
decrease it 3 $3,000. I seconded it and it  

1807
03:27:47,920 --> 03:27:54,480
became 44,500. So clarification purposes, there 
was a discussion. We knocked it down 3,000. It  

1808
03:27:54,479 --> 03:28:04,879
got to 445. Um, only two people that got it was 
me and Mr. Ash because everybody else had been  

1809
03:28:04,880 --> 03:28:12,800
unseated. So, just, you know, I think and you 
know, it's funny because I was over the summer  

1810
03:28:12,800 --> 03:28:18,880
and he he's sitting in the audience tonight. 
I ran into Mr. Mike Carter at Stop and Shop.  

1811
03:28:18,880 --> 03:28:23,520
I was getting groceries as I was coming out 
the summer. He was getting ballot initiatives,  

1812
03:28:23,520 --> 03:28:31,440
signatures. He directly said to me that I'm okay 
with the the salaries of the counselors. I think  

1813
03:28:31,439 --> 03:28:37,439
you deserve it. He also stated a step further 
that he was okay with the school committee at  

1814
03:28:37,439 --> 03:28:43,120
$20,000. Now, no one ever talks about the school 
committee's increase 3 years ago that went from  

1815
03:28:43,120 --> 03:28:54,319
$9,000 to $20,000, which is more than doubled. No 
one speaks about it. It's unheard of. But he was  

1816
03:28:54,319 --> 03:29:00,000
okay with it. He said those two salaries, school 
committee and city council should be those rates  

1817
03:29:00,000 --> 03:29:09,439
should be that salary. So I said, "Thank you." 
We had a conversation. Oh, sorry. But that was  

1818
03:29:09,439 --> 03:29:16,399
our conversation. I had it that summer. Just for 
clarification purposes. Okay. So, Council Deon, if  

1819
03:29:16,399 --> 03:29:21,279
you wouldn't mind, we we do have to get through. 
Is there Oh, I haven't tal all I haven't talked  

1820
03:29:21,279 --> 03:29:28,080
all night. I let you guys deliberate. And to be 
very honest with you, you know, I have a rule book  

1821
03:29:28,080 --> 03:29:33,840
here. And rule 10 says I have up to 15 minutes 
to speak. I'm going to speak about this matter as  

1822
03:29:33,840 --> 03:29:40,319
long as I can before I need to. I got 15 minutes 
in the book. And it also says rule 11, speaking  

1823
03:29:40,319 --> 03:29:44,559
to Cororum. No member shall interrupt it while 
speaking. I'm not finished. I'm talking about this  

1824
03:29:44,560 --> 03:29:51,121
item that's on the table right now. Okay. I have 
that right. Okay. I apologize. Go ahead. Okay.

1825
03:29:53,200 --> 03:30:00,559
I didn't speed anybody up that went over 15 
minutes on all these other deliberations.

1826
03:30:00,560 --> 03:30:05,280
But for this one, I I I don't feel like we should 
do this. Now, is this another one we're going to  

1827
03:30:05,279 --> 03:30:13,359
revisit in September? All of them. So, all of the 
ones that we're we're dealing with tonight is kind  

1828
03:30:13,359 --> 03:30:22,239
of bookkeeping and then we're going to discuss 
with data um what the salary raises should be  

1829
03:30:22,239 --> 03:30:29,599
because nobody thinks that there shouldn't be a 
salary raise for the council or the mayor. Um,  

1830
03:30:29,600 --> 03:30:39,360
it's just I think the process was not one that was 
clear, transparent, um, and involved public input,  

1831
03:30:39,359 --> 03:30:44,639
but there was nothing that was done that was 
wrong. But we we deliberated about it in the  

1832
03:30:44,640 --> 03:30:53,120
city council, this particular item. This it was 
voted on, but there wasn't um public input. Um,  

1833
03:30:53,120 --> 03:30:58,640
that what didn't exist back then? Well, there 
was a there many requests for public hearing.  

1834
03:30:58,640 --> 03:31:05,520
um on this issue and they were denied. And who who 
was who was the council president? Who was who was  

1835
03:31:05,520 --> 03:31:11,920
the ordinance chair? Who was the over um who was 
the uh finance chair? That's like me telling you  

1836
03:31:11,920 --> 03:31:17,279
or councelor M or President Mahoney or counselor 
Riley, I don't like the way you're doing running  

1837
03:31:17,279 --> 03:31:25,439
these meetings. I want to oppose them. So I think 
what we we have before us um we have before us  

1838
03:31:25,439 --> 03:31:36,960
this uh this ordinance. We have a motion on the 
table. Um we we will get back to the what level  

1839
03:31:36,960 --> 03:31:45,200
they should be in this in the fall, but um I would 
respectfully request that we keep our comments  

1840
03:31:45,200 --> 03:31:52,559
very specific to this ordinance right now. Okay, 
I'm almost done. Thank you. Um, but I'm not going  

1841
03:31:52,560 --> 03:31:58,640
to support this. I mean, you have a situation 
where you're kind of going backwards here.  

1842
03:31:58,640 --> 03:32:06,800
This has already been initiated. Like, doesn't 
This is another one I don't understand. I really  

1843
03:32:06,800 --> 03:32:11,760
don't. But I appreciate you coming back in in 
September and revisiting this. So, you're you're  

1844
03:32:11,760 --> 03:32:20,000
going to come in in September 2026? Yes. Okay. 
Thank you. Sure. Councelor Mahoney. again. Um,  

1845
03:32:20,000 --> 03:32:25,680
this is I think you were in the same election as 
we were null and people were very upset because  

1846
03:32:25,680 --> 03:32:31,201
there was an input on it and I understand that 
counselor Ash had to drop the salary from 47 to  

1847
03:32:31,200 --> 03:32:37,120
44 and it could very well be the salary could be 
44, but it needs to be a real discussion with data  

1848
03:32:37,120 --> 03:32:42,479
driven information. It's as simple as that. And I 
know it can be very threatening um when you have  

1849
03:32:42,479 --> 03:32:46,639
a raise and somebody's talking about dropping it 
back to 29. It's we're not asking you to drop it  

1850
03:32:46,640 --> 03:32:50,161
back to 29. We're just saying that the salary 
should be 29. We can have this conversation.  

1851
03:32:50,160 --> 03:32:55,040
And the goal I think what we really should be 
focusing on is not taking as much time as we  

1852
03:32:55,040 --> 03:32:58,560
need to get this through, but to start really 
deliberating about this in September so we can  

1853
03:32:58,560 --> 03:33:04,000
get to an answer so that we can have it done. But 
to do that, we have to get past this point. So,  

1854
03:33:04,000 --> 03:33:08,880
I will be supporting this and I will be supporting 
the the deliberations as we bring information  

1855
03:33:08,880 --> 03:33:13,760
forward because I think it's an important piece of 
what people were looking for in that last election  

1856
03:33:13,760 --> 03:33:17,920
which is really just how do we come to these how 
do we come to these numbers? How do these things  

1857
03:33:17,920 --> 03:33:22,720
happen? You know, and it's not just the salaries, 
it's a lot of things in the city. How does this  

1858
03:33:22,720 --> 03:33:27,360
happen? How does this happen underneath somebody's 
watch? You know, and that was a big You're right.  

1859
03:33:27,359 --> 03:33:31,839
You know, I appreciate the fact that you are here. 
Well, but I do appreciate the fact that we have to  

1860
03:33:31,840 --> 03:33:37,920
have these conversations and you'll be part of 
them. So, I think it will be a good conversation  

1861
03:33:37,920 --> 03:33:45,200
just just to follow just Okay. Very brief very 
very briefly. You can Yep. Just to follow up on  

1862
03:33:45,200 --> 03:33:49,679
that. I agree 100% that we're going to have this 
conversation in September and we'll have a little  

1863
03:33:49,680 --> 03:33:55,520
more data and I appreciate that. That's not on 
here. It's not on the um the ordinance change  

1864
03:33:55,520 --> 03:34:00,161
here without any deliberations here in September. 
So, I'm coming into this thinking we weren't even  

1865
03:34:00,160 --> 03:34:04,559
going to talk about it. So, we got clarification 
tonight. I'm looking forward to the discussion and  

1866
03:34:04,560 --> 03:34:11,280
uh I I appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. Uh 
Council Jacobs. Uh thank you. Good evening.  

1867
03:34:11,279 --> 03:34:18,800
I just want to um thank you, Councelor McKe, 
for really keeping this on track. Um I will be  

1868
03:34:18,800 --> 03:34:24,160
supporting this tonight. I I do want to um just 
echo some of the things I heard here. You know,  

1869
03:34:24,160 --> 03:34:29,920
um there was an election. This was a big part 
of the election. Obviously, um there was a group  

1870
03:34:29,920 --> 03:34:37,279
that started the petition to lower the salaries 
originally. I was part of that group. Um my front  

1871
03:34:37,279 --> 03:34:43,279
porch was one of the areas where hundreds of 
people came to sign the petition. And you know,  

1872
03:34:43,279 --> 03:34:48,000
the biggest question I got was, you know, people 
the biggest thing I noticed was that people didn't  

1873
03:34:48,000 --> 03:34:52,880
want to sign the city council one. You know, for 
every like one signature someone would sign the  

1874
03:34:52,880 --> 03:34:58,000
city council, like four people signed them. the 
mayor's raised one, right? So there is a sentiment  

1875
03:34:58,000 --> 03:35:04,239
out there which has been you know mentioned here 
by councelor Deona that you know and a member of  

1876
03:35:04,239 --> 03:35:11,599
the audience that you know there is some sentiment 
out there that people are not as you know you know  

1877
03:35:11,600 --> 03:35:18,560
affronted by the the city council one but I 
do believe that in my heart of hearts that the  

1878
03:35:18,560 --> 03:35:24,960
process was flawed. Um, you know, I do want to 
just say to this board, the city council that,  

1879
03:35:24,960 --> 03:35:30,880
you know, it's very possible that, you know, this 
could come back at 44,5, you know, I don't know.  

1880
03:35:30,880 --> 03:35:37,760
Um but you know I I do believe that um there 
should be a public you know comment a period  

1881
03:35:37,760 --> 03:35:43,120
where people can you know address the address 
the city council and and I think that would if  

1882
03:35:43,120 --> 03:35:48,960
if if that had been done and the finance committee 
chair was former world one city councelor. Um I  

1883
03:35:48,960 --> 03:35:54,480
I think things could have stayed just like this 
and we probably might not have had the election  

1884
03:35:54,479 --> 03:36:03,519
that we had back last year. So that's that's all 
I want to say about that. Thank you uh council.  

1885
03:36:03,520 --> 03:36:12,560
Thank you chairwoman. So I would like to say from 
my experience about uh connecting signatures to  

1886
03:36:12,560 --> 03:36:22,000
repeal race and organized protesting protest uh 
I feel people mainly upset about two things. One  

1887
03:36:22,000 --> 03:36:32,640
is the process. So the formal city con council 
just rushed through approved mayor's 79% pay  

1888
03:36:32,640 --> 03:36:44,000
raise and themselves 50% pay raise without giving 
a single public hearing despite the uh widespread

1889
03:36:44,000 --> 03:36:57,200
protesting. So people are upset that and second is 
they do think uh 79% pay raise from 150 to 285 is  

1890
03:36:57,200 --> 03:37:08,239
too huge jump and so the new salary 285 will 
put mayor's salary the top three or top four  

1891
03:37:08,239 --> 03:37:17,279
like mayors in whole nation. So people compare 
the uh mayors in New York City, Chicago, Boston,  

1892
03:37:17,279 --> 03:37:26,719
Houston and they feel like uh mayor of city of 
Quincy compared all those big cities. How come  

1893
03:37:26,720 --> 03:37:36,800
the mayor city of Quincy get paid more? I think I 
I I heard people talking about that they they also  

1894
03:37:36,800 --> 03:37:48,560
um in the beginning is some consulting company 
suggest the number the higher the range the higher  

1895
03:37:48,560 --> 03:38:02,161
end is 385 even 385,000 right 370 370 and the 
lower end is 295 Right. Yeah, I remember that.  

1896
03:38:02,160 --> 03:38:12,160
So mayor even didn't take that suggestion. So 
he suggested 285,000. I just think that number  

1897
03:38:12,160 --> 03:38:21,279
given by that consulting company is totally out 
of touch. So I feel and the reason we want to  

1898
03:38:21,279 --> 03:38:31,519
do this to kind of going back to like have a clean 
slate so we can have a proper process then compare  

1899
03:38:31,520 --> 03:38:40,560
uh other city other towns and do analysis. So with 
the residents involvement with this new council,  

1900
03:38:40,560 --> 03:38:49,121
we can set set up a proper process and to 
get a number for for the race. We we don't we  

1901
03:38:49,120 --> 03:38:58,000
never say like a mayor or council shouldn't 
have any race. So that's just my comment.

1902
03:38:58,000 --> 03:39:05,279
Okay. Councelor Ash. Thank you. Thank you, 
Madam Chair. Um, I do have um just a couple  

1903
03:39:05,279 --> 03:39:11,759
comments and then um a potential amendment, 
but I appreciate um that council Deona. Um  

1904
03:39:11,760 --> 03:39:18,800
I I was I did make the the revision to the 
initial proposal from 47,500 to 44,500. Um  

1905
03:39:18,800 --> 03:39:23,840
that was the quite frankly the the the revision 
that I thought would have support. you know,  

1906
03:39:23,840 --> 03:39:30,720
um I I know that I voiced my concern over 
the process as did councelor Deabona and that  

1907
03:39:30,720 --> 03:39:37,680
um that concern is largely what led itself I would 
like to think anyway to the um the next agenda  

1908
03:39:37,680 --> 03:39:45,440
item which is 031 and the CPI index. Um there 
was really no no path forward to future increases  

1909
03:39:45,439 --> 03:39:51,120
or future revisions. I understand that that uh 
those parameters are not perfect. Uh but that was  

1910
03:39:51,120 --> 03:39:57,599
um quite what what the the will of the body was at 
that time. I look forward to discussing um those  

1911
03:39:57,600 --> 03:40:03,920
you know the the potential increases or revisions 
to that in the future. Obviously, this is um a  

1912
03:40:03,920 --> 03:40:12,960
matter that has garnered um a lot of um engagement 
and certainly people um that have organized and  

1913
03:40:12,960 --> 03:40:19,200
um made their their voices and their opinions 
known and that is hard work in and of itself. So,  

1914
03:40:19,200 --> 03:40:23,359
um whether or not you agree with with the 
mission, certainly commend those people for  

1915
03:40:23,359 --> 03:40:31,200
using the democratic process to do that. Um, but 
that being said, I I do look forward to discussing  

1916
03:40:31,200 --> 03:40:36,880
uh these more in the fall. I think all of my 
fellow counselors are now 6 months in realizing  

1917
03:40:36,880 --> 03:40:45,040
um the the all-encompassing nature and the and the 
the greatness and also the the time um consuming  

1918
03:40:45,040 --> 03:40:51,200
um part of this gig which makes it um so great and 
so rewarding. and part of actually this ordinance  

1919
03:40:51,200 --> 03:40:58,639
is must feel to all of my my freshman colleagues 
part of kind of that reward in a way. So,  

1920
03:40:58,640 --> 03:41:04,080
um I just wouldn't be would be remiss not to 
say that. Um I did um similarly take issue  

1921
03:41:04,080 --> 03:41:12,559
with the the repeal um the the repeal word and 
sentiment. Um I am fine with with this as as  

1922
03:41:12,560 --> 03:41:17,920
um as it stands with the delete or amend um and 
look forward to discussing it more in the fall.  

1923
03:41:17,920 --> 03:41:30,560
Um I will suggest one um friendly amendment 
to this and that would be to strike um to  

1924
03:41:30,560 --> 03:41:39,440
strike the clause that says after the state ethics 
commission raised conflict of interest concerns.

1925
03:41:39,439 --> 03:41:43,519
Why? simply because that that 
isn't in the um the mayoral  

1926
03:41:43,520 --> 03:41:51,520
um revision and I do think it reads 
it, you know, if if we just say it was  

1927
03:41:51,520 --> 03:41:57,201
administratively deferred until January 5th, 
I think it accomplishes that without kind of  

1928
03:41:57,200 --> 03:42:02,319
uh you know, the the negative 
connotation with of that clause.  

1929
03:42:03,840 --> 03:42:11,040
So, just to just to clarify, the reason why I had 
this uh preamble for the for the council one as  

1930
03:42:11,040 --> 03:42:20,080
opposed to the mayor one is because I wanted to 
clarify why this change wasn't taking place until  

1931
03:42:20,080 --> 03:42:27,439
2028 because we'd gotten a lot of um criticism 
for somehow getting into office and then grabbing  

1932
03:42:27,439 --> 03:42:33,759
the money, etc., etc., when we really couldn't 
do anything about it. um through this ordinance  

1933
03:42:33,760 --> 03:42:44,800
process. So that's why I I included the um the 
preamble here. Um, I see your point that it's  

1934
03:42:44,800 --> 03:42:48,960
sort of suggesting maybe that there's something 
different about the council versus the mayor, but  

1935
03:42:48,960 --> 03:42:59,760
given that the whole front is different in this uh 
order, um, I I would tend to leave it because it's  

1936
03:42:59,760 --> 03:43:09,440
accurate and um, it gets a point across that there 
were there were there were reasons why um, the  

1937
03:43:09,439 --> 03:43:18,080
previous council had to defer taking those raises. 
Um, it was it was because of this state conflict  

1938
03:43:18,080 --> 03:43:26,960
of interest law. Um, Councelor Riley. Yes. Am 
I on? Um, I'd like to make a motion to accept  

1939
03:43:26,960 --> 03:43:34,640
councelor Ash's friendly amendment. I don't think 
it adds anything to it and it's fine without it.

1940
03:43:34,640 --> 03:43:41,040
Okay. So, we'll take a we'll take a vote on the 
friendly amendment. Um, yeah, I can just add to  

1941
03:43:41,040 --> 03:43:46,080
that. Yeah, thank thank you, Council Riley. 
But really, you know, the goal I think with  

1942
03:43:46,080 --> 03:43:53,519
the legislation that we're drafting, it should 
be as um subjective as possible. And I think that  

1943
03:43:53,520 --> 03:43:59,360
that this specific clause, so how it would read 
without this clause would simply say, whereas  

1944
03:43:59,359 --> 03:44:06,239
ordinance 2024-056 established the salary of each 
city council at 445 effective January 125 and was  

1945
03:44:06,239 --> 03:44:12,559
administratively deferred until January 5, 2026. I 
don't think it takes um anything away and I think  

1946
03:44:12,560 --> 03:44:18,560
it's certainly accurate. Um so that's why I would 
suggest that amendment. If if we could take a a  

1947
03:44:18,560 --> 03:44:24,320
vote on that, I'd appreciate it. Okay. Actually, 
I noticed that next the next part, the whereas  

1948
03:44:24,319 --> 03:44:30,319
actually mentions the state conflict of interest 
law anyway, so I changed my mind. I'm okay with  

1949
03:44:30,319 --> 03:44:39,759
your removing after the state ethics commission 
raised conflict of interest concerns. Oh, sorry.  

1950
03:44:39,760 --> 03:44:46,320
Okay, Councelor Ryan, through you, Madam Chair, 
um would we want to add that same language to  

1951
03:44:46,319 --> 03:44:55,759
the ma to the um 2026 29 We've already voted on it 
and I think we should just Okay. move move along.  

1952
03:44:55,760 --> 03:45:07,600
Um okay. So um councelor un the same question. 
Okay. So okay so we we have a motion to accept  

1953
03:45:07,600 --> 03:45:16,080
this with the deletion of after the state ethics 
commission raised conflict of interest concerns  

1954
03:45:16,080 --> 03:45:22,800
um at the end of the first whereas paragraph. Um, 
can we please take a roll call vote? Council Ash,  

1955
03:45:22,800 --> 03:45:30,560
Council Deon, Council Hubley, yes. Council 
Jacobs, Council Mahoney, yes. Council Riley, yes.  

1956
03:45:30,560 --> 03:45:38,400
Council Ryan, yes. Council Yuan, yes. Chairman 
McGee, yes. 8 to1. Okay, that was 8 to one. Um,  

1957
03:45:38,399 --> 03:45:47,040
with councelor Jacobs, uh, no. Okay, and now we 
have to pat we have to what? One more um item and  

1958
03:45:47,040 --> 03:45:54,640
not subst not specific to that um ordinance, but 
I just want to um alert clerk Manning just simply  

1959
03:45:54,640 --> 03:46:00,480
on the agenda. I think that the the titles of the 
actual ordinances should be changed because they  

1960
03:46:00,479 --> 03:46:07,199
still read a repeal. I don't think that that's 
sub that matters really for our business tonight,  

1961
03:46:07,199 --> 03:46:12,639
but just um alerting the body to that as well. 
Thank you. You want to say like amended? I think  

1962
03:46:12,640 --> 03:46:17,840
it should say deleted or deleted. Is that 
fine? That's how you've reworked it, right,  

1963
03:46:17,840 --> 03:46:28,239
Council McGee? Yep. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. So 
now I guess we have to vote to accept order 202630  

1964
03:46:28,239 --> 03:46:35,040
as amended on the motion. Councelor Deona. Thank 
you, Madam Chair. Um thank you, Madam Chair. I'm  

1965
03:46:35,040 --> 03:46:39,600
going to support this one. I'm going to tell you 
why. I was going to give the reason why up there.  

1966
03:46:39,600 --> 03:46:44,400
Um, you're going to revisit this in September 
and you we got a commitment here tonight. So,  

1967
03:46:44,399 --> 03:46:49,920
we're going to revisit this. So, I'm okay with 
it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Please take a roll  

1968
03:46:49,920 --> 03:46:56,480
call. Council Ash, yes. Council Dabona, Council 
Huby, yes. Council Jacobs, yes. Council Mahoney,  

1969
03:46:56,479 --> 03:47:03,599
yes. Council Riley, yes. Council Ryan, yes. 
Council Yuan, yes. Juni, yes. Nine members. Okay,  

1970
03:47:03,600 --> 03:47:14,240
moving on to order number 2026 0 31. Um this is 
taking away the annual. So, in addition to the  

1971
03:47:14,239 --> 03:47:24,639
79% and 50% raises, um there were there was a an 
ordinance put into place to um in beginning in the  

1972
03:47:24,640 --> 03:47:30,960
2030s give annual increases to those salaries 
so that we wouldn't have to come back and do  

1973
03:47:30,960 --> 03:47:38,640
all this every single time and it wouldn't be 
such a long time between um raise ordinances.  

1974
03:47:38,640 --> 03:47:47,440
But because there wasn't a whole lot of discussion 
on that one either, um uh I have put forward this  

1975
03:47:47,439 --> 03:47:55,599
uh ordinance to undo that so that we can again 
revisit the whole concept of of incremental raises  

1976
03:47:55,600 --> 03:48:07,840
beginning in September. So um I motion to approve 
the order as amended before you on the motion.

1977
03:48:07,840 --> 03:48:17,120
Okay. Um, oh. Oh, councelor Cuby. Yeah. 
Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, uh,  

1978
03:48:17,120 --> 03:48:22,399
I plan to support this, but I did want to mention 
a few things before I did before we went forward  

1979
03:48:22,399 --> 03:48:31,439
with it. And that is um so my brother-in-law, 
my late brother-in-law, Wayne Nickel, served on  

1980
03:48:31,439 --> 03:48:41,919
the Lemonster City Council for I think it was 25 
years until his passing. Um and oddly enough, he  

1981
03:48:41,920 --> 03:48:47,359
put forward this exact same thing for Lemonster, 
which they've had in place for many, many years.  

1982
03:48:47,359 --> 03:48:54,399
And the feedback I've gotten from council members 
in Lemonster is very positive about it. And they  

1983
03:48:54,399 --> 03:49:00,000
said it kind of takes the politics out of it. It 
prevents us from having to not want to revisit  

1984
03:49:00,000 --> 03:49:04,800
this if you know people feel concerned about the 
election. Just takes it the politics out of it and  

1985
03:49:04,800 --> 03:49:10,720
lets lets it trend towards the proper um rate. And 
now I'm not saying commut consumer price index is  

1986
03:49:10,720 --> 03:49:15,760
the exact right thing although that is what they 
do. Um, but I think if we can if we revisit this,  

1987
03:49:15,760 --> 03:49:20,960
so I'm voting to to get rid of this, but I I 
I feel like it might be on the right track is  

1988
03:49:20,960 --> 03:49:26,080
really what I wanted to add. Um, and there was 
a currently sitting member that I spoke to who  

1989
03:49:26,080 --> 03:49:31,199
had been on for 17 years and and that was the 
feedback that I got. So, I think it's on the  

1990
03:49:31,199 --> 03:49:35,760
right track. Um, but I understand the intention 
that we're going to revisit this in September.  

1991
03:49:35,760 --> 03:49:42,000
Uh part of me says that anytime a elected official 
wants to go for an increase in compensation,  

1992
03:49:42,000 --> 03:49:47,680
they should put that before the people. That's one 
argument that I have. But then the other argument  

1993
03:49:47,680 --> 03:49:52,320
the other argument I have is, you know, maybe we 
just take the politics out of it. So, you know,  

1994
03:49:52,319 --> 03:49:57,359
I I can I can talk myself in and out of it in both 
ways. Uh so I'm looking forward to the vigorous  

1995
03:49:57,359 --> 03:50:05,519
conversation we'll have in the fall. Thank you. 
Um uh councelor Dono. Thank you. Thank you, Madam  

1996
03:50:05,520 --> 03:50:10,081
Chair. So, you really want to just get rid of this 
completely? Is this what you want to do and start  

1997
03:50:10,080 --> 03:50:18,399
all over? Exactly. So, again, I I don't I'm not 
against that. Um I did hear from the public 2%,  

1998
03:50:18,399 --> 03:50:24,799
I did hear 3%, I did hear go with exactly what 
everybody else gets for the salary increase. So,  

1999
03:50:24,800 --> 03:50:32,160
we we'll have this conversation again. Is this 
another one in September? Okay. Yeah. Um but yeah,  

2000
03:50:32,160 --> 03:50:38,399
that was just the feedback I got on just talking 
to several different people from everywhere was  

2001
03:50:38,399 --> 03:50:43,120
the increases and what you do every year. And it's 
always it's always a tough situation. Trust me,  

2002
03:50:43,120 --> 03:50:48,880
I was been up here all these years. We've only 
put it in front of us twice before that happened.  

2003
03:50:48,880 --> 03:50:54,480
It happened my very first year up here and we 
agreed not to take it. It was only like I want  

2004
03:50:54,479 --> 03:51:00,239
to say it was a 3% increase and it wasn't really 
worth it. So, we didn't do it back in 2016 and  

2005
03:51:00,239 --> 03:51:04,160
then it came up again while I was council 
president. Unfortunately, it didn't work  

2006
03:51:04,160 --> 03:51:08,639
and then it happened again in this pastime. It's 
never it's never going to be a good time to talk  

2007
03:51:08,640 --> 03:51:12,161
about this stuff. People are going to say you're 
taking a two or 3%. We'll talk about it more,  

2008
03:51:12,160 --> 03:51:17,359
but you're taking a two or 3% every year. You're 
getting an increase. What about taxes? And you  

2009
03:51:17,359 --> 03:51:25,599
guess what? You'll be part of the process. Tag 
you're in. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Did you accept  

2010
03:51:25,600 --> 03:51:30,800
Did you We have to accept the amendments and then 
we can vote it. I don't think we had Oh, we you  

2011
03:51:30,800 --> 03:51:37,120
replacing, right? Yes. Yes. Just accept that for 
this one. Yeah. Okay. Just to keep it consistent  

2012
03:51:37,120 --> 03:51:45,359
with all of us. Yes. All of them. Okay. Um so 
we should vote first to accept this amendment  

2013
03:51:45,359 --> 03:51:50,479
as it reads and as you have it in front of you. 
Um can you please take a roll call? Council Ash,  

2014
03:51:50,479 --> 03:51:58,479
yes. Council Dona, yes. Council Hugley. We're 
we're voting to accept this amended version.  

2015
03:51:58,479 --> 03:52:06,080
Yeah. Yeah. Uh would do you accept this amended 
version of this? Yes. Okay. Council Jacobs,  

2016
03:52:06,080 --> 03:52:11,199
yes. Council Mahoney. Council Mahoney, do you 
vote? Do you accept this amendment? Yes. Okay.  

2017
03:52:11,199 --> 03:52:19,199
Council Riley, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Council, 
yes. Chairman McKe, yes. Okay. Now uh motion to  

2018
03:52:19,199 --> 03:52:27,279
accept this as amended. Um please uh councelor 
you taking the motion. Okay. Uh she's did you  

2019
03:52:27,279 --> 03:52:34,559
want to make that motion? Okay. So councelor 
makes a motion. Um on the motion. Okay. Let's  

2020
03:52:34,560 --> 03:52:39,280
take a roll call. Councelor Ash. Yes. Council 
Dona. Council Hubley. Yes. Council Jacobs.  

2021
03:52:39,279 --> 03:52:49,120
Yes. Council Mahoney. Yes. Council Riley. Yes. 
Council Ryan. Council. J. Yes. n. Okay. Well,  

2022
03:52:49,120 --> 03:52:58,960
that wasn't excruciating. Thanks everybody. Um, 
so we are going to um that's all we have. So,  

2023
03:52:58,960 --> 03:53:09,279
we're going to we're going to move into the 
regular council meeting and adjourn ordinance.

2024
03:54:06,160 --> 03:54:09,439
I'm going to have you read I'm going to have 
you do it again. If you could just read it  

2025
03:54:09,439 --> 03:54:14,479
into the to the Okay. Yep. Sure. Uh so this 
is a review of the open meeting law complaint  

2026
03:54:14,479 --> 03:54:22,000
regarding meeting on June 15, 2026. It was a late 
item. Late item. So, because this is a late item,  

2027
03:54:22,000 --> 03:54:27,120
we're using um we're using rule 27, which is 
allowing us to have the late item and it would  

2028
03:54:27,120 --> 03:54:30,239
require two-thirds of a vote of the members of the 
city council to be allowed into this meeting. So,  

2029
03:54:30,239 --> 03:54:33,279
do they have to take that vote now? Yes. 
So, if we could take a vote to allow this  

2030
03:54:33,279 --> 03:54:36,719
into the meeting tonight because I we just 
got this I just got this open meeting law  

2031
03:54:36,720 --> 03:54:40,960
violation yesterday and if we were to 
um not have it on the agenda tonight,  

2032
03:54:40,960 --> 03:54:43,760
it would have we would have had to have a special 
meeting. So, we're just having it tonight. So,  

2033
03:54:43,760 --> 03:54:48,560
we're going to take a roll call vote on 
that. Okay. Council Ash, yes. Council Dabona,  

2034
03:54:48,560 --> 03:54:56,640
yes. Council Hubley, yes. Council Jacobs, yes. 
Council McKe, yes. Council Riley, Council Ryan,  

2035
03:54:56,640 --> 03:55:06,320
yes. Council Yuen, yes. President Money, yes. 
Eight. Okay. So, I'm going to move into this. So,  

2036
03:55:06,319 --> 03:55:10,559
this item is an open meeting law complaint filed 
by Miss Leah Del Gloria. It was received by the  

2037
03:55:10,560 --> 03:55:16,161
city council, myself on June 21st, yesterday, 
2026. Under Massachusetts open meeting law  

2038
03:55:16,160 --> 03:55:19,920
and regulations of the attorney general's 
division of open government, the council  

2039
03:55:19,920 --> 03:55:25,040
is required to review the complaint and and 
determine whether any action is appropriate.  

2040
03:55:25,040 --> 03:55:33,600
The complaint alleges that the proposed amendments 
on council orders 2026-030 and 2026-3031 were  

2041
03:55:33,600 --> 03:55:39,760
trans transmitted by councelor Maggie McKe to the 
clerk committees and subsequently distributed to  

2042
03:55:39,760 --> 03:55:45,520
the members of the city council outside of 
a posted public meeting. Before proceeding,  

2043
03:55:45,520 --> 03:55:50,161
I'd like to to clarify the purpose of the review 
for this evening. The council is not here to  

2044
03:55:50,160 --> 03:55:55,439
discuss the merits of the ordinances or proposed 
amendments or the source of the amendments. We are  

2045
03:55:55,439 --> 03:56:00,960
not making findings regarding the intent or the 
content of any individual council member. The sole  

2046
03:56:00,960 --> 03:56:04,960
question before the council tonight is whether 
the facts presented established deliberations  

2047
03:56:04,960 --> 03:56:11,199
among a quorum of city councilors outside the 
properly posted public meeting. The council has  

2048
03:56:11,199 --> 03:56:15,279
reviewed the complaint. You all have the you 
should all have the complaint in your package  

2049
03:56:15,279 --> 03:56:19,359
today. The emails correspondents referenced in 
the complaint in the document distributed to the  

2050
03:56:19,359 --> 03:56:22,960
members of the council. The materials reviewed 
show that a proposed amendment were submitted  

2051
03:56:22,960 --> 03:56:26,239
to the clerk of committees and subsequently 
distributed to the members of the council  

2052
03:56:26,239 --> 03:56:32,160
for inclusion in the meetings materials and 
consideration of future future public meetings.  

2053
03:56:32,800 --> 03:56:35,760
From what I can see, the council has 
found no evidence and I have not found any  

2054
03:56:35,760 --> 03:56:39,520
evidence that the members discussed or proposed 
amendments through email, exchanged opinions,  

2055
03:56:39,520 --> 03:56:44,000
responded in an other debated of merits outside 
the proposal, attempted to reach the consensus or  

2056
03:56:44,000 --> 03:56:48,479
otherwise engaged in deliberation outside the post 
of public meetings. Um, some of us weren't even  

2057
03:56:48,479 --> 03:56:53,359
aware that we got the email. The council further 
notes that the proposed amendments had not yet  

2058
03:56:53,359 --> 03:56:58,880
been discussed by the council and were intended to 
be considered in a future public meeting. Based on  

2059
03:56:58,880 --> 03:57:03,520
the information reviewed, the council finds that 
the communication at it as issued consisted of the  

2060
03:57:03,520 --> 03:57:09,200
distri distribution of documents and there 
is insufficient evidence to establish that  

2061
03:57:09,199 --> 03:57:14,639
deliberation occurred among a quorum of the city 
councils outside of the posted public meeting.  

2062
03:57:14,640 --> 03:57:18,720
The council remains committed to transparency and 
compliance within the open meeting law and will  

2063
03:57:18,720 --> 03:57:24,000
continue to exercise care regarding communication 
and distribution of materials relating to matters  

2064
03:57:24,000 --> 03:57:30,239
that come before the city council. Um before 
opening the discussion, I want to address  

2065
03:57:30,239 --> 03:57:35,840
one procedural matter. The complaint references 
council councelor McKe by name. I consulted with  

2066
03:57:35,840 --> 03:57:41,920
council um city city solicitor Timmons regarding 
whether um whether there were any participation  

2067
03:57:41,920 --> 03:57:46,960
concerns related to this complaint. Um and I was 
advised that council McKe can participate in the  

2068
03:57:46,960 --> 03:57:51,760
discussion and vote on this matter. According all 
members accordingly all members of the council are  

2069
03:57:51,760 --> 03:57:56,560
eligible to participate and discuss this vote. 
So at this time I'd like to open the floor to  

2070
03:57:56,560 --> 03:58:02,960
discussion regarding the complaint of the proposed 
and the proposed written response. Councelor McGee  

2071
03:58:02,960 --> 03:58:08,560
second you um I would like to address the 
latest open meeting law complaint against  

2072
03:58:08,560 --> 03:58:13,760
this council which concerns suggested amendments 
to two ordinances attempting to repeal salary  

2073
03:58:13,760 --> 03:58:20,640
increases passed by the previous city council. 
This complaint raises two separate issues. One  

2074
03:58:20,640 --> 03:58:25,920
is how counselors should communicate outside of 
public meetings. The other is whether individual  

2075
03:58:25,920 --> 03:58:31,440
counselors are allowed to hire a personal attorney 
for legal advice. We addressed the second issue  

2076
03:58:31,439 --> 03:58:35,839
last week establishing that the open meeting 
law does not preclude a single counselor from  

2077
03:58:35,840 --> 03:58:41,600
consulting with a personal attorney, a fact that 
solicitor Timmons acknowledged. So, the claim in  

2078
03:58:41,600 --> 03:58:46,560
this document that my hiring my own attorney 
at my own cost to look over local laws I had  

2079
03:58:46,560 --> 03:58:54,320
drafted carries quote serious OML implications is 
simply false. Let me now speak to the other issue  

2080
03:58:54,319 --> 03:59:00,160
and I'll start by providing some context. At the 
April 6th meeting of the public works committee,  

2081
03:59:00,160 --> 03:59:05,519
one counselor had suggested a number of amendments 
to proposed ordinances on sewer and storm water  

2082
03:59:05,520 --> 03:59:10,560
violations. Another counselor responded that 
it would be helpful for counselors to receive  

2083
03:59:10,560 --> 03:59:16,960
any such suggested changes ahead of time to give 
everyone a better chance to consider them. With  

2084
03:59:16,960 --> 03:59:21,840
that in mind, after making some changes to two 
ordinances I had drafted months earlier to try  

2085
03:59:21,840 --> 03:59:27,199
to repeal politicians pay raises, I asked the 
council clerk to email the suggested amendments  

2086
03:59:27,199 --> 03:59:34,000
to all the other counselors and to also post them 
publicly on the city website. My intention was to  

2087
03:59:34,000 --> 03:59:38,960
get the information out to both the council 
and the public so that everyone could have  

2088
03:59:38,960 --> 03:59:45,279
time to review the minor edits in advance of the 
meeting. In fact, that sort of public information  

2089
03:59:45,279 --> 03:59:52,559
sharing is supported by a dicta or opinion that 
the Supreme Judicial Court published in 2018.  

2090
03:59:52,560 --> 03:59:58,081
The dicta was about a case where the chair of 
the select board in Wayland circulated individual  

2091
03:59:58,080 --> 04:00:03,920
members evaluations of the town administrator with 
board members ahead of a public meeting about the  

2092
04:00:03,920 --> 04:00:09,680
evaluation. They did not share the written 
evaluations with the public until after the  

2093
04:00:09,680 --> 04:00:16,240
meeting. The Supreme Judicial Court wrote, quote, 
"If board members wish to circulate documents  

2094
04:00:16,239 --> 04:00:23,599
containing board member opinions among a quorum 
in advance of an open meeting, as here, prior and  

2095
04:00:23,600 --> 04:00:30,080
relatively contemporaneous public disclosure of 
those documents where permissible is necessary in  

2096
04:00:30,080 --> 04:00:35,920
order to comply with the open meeting law and to 
advance the statute's overall goal of promoting  

2097
04:00:35,920 --> 04:00:42,560
transparency in governmental decision-making." So 
there is a strong argument to be made to support  

2098
04:00:42,560 --> 04:00:47,920
the sharing of suggested amendments ahead of 
a meeting as long as that sharing happens with  

2099
04:00:47,920 --> 04:00:53,680
the public at the same time as with the body 
itself. That is the same kind of argument that  

2100
04:00:53,680 --> 04:00:58,880
allows counselors as some in this body did with 
regard to the request for new firefighter gear,  

2101
04:00:58,880 --> 04:01:04,319
for example, to write letters to the editor or 
social media posts stating how they will vote  

2102
04:01:04,319 --> 04:01:09,439
ahead of a public meeting where that vote 
will take place. If it turns out that the  

2103
04:01:09,439 --> 04:01:13,359
public does not feel comfortable with that 
type of wide information sharing, however,  

2104
04:01:13,359 --> 04:01:18,559
I will refrain from doing it in the future. 
But my intention was to increase transparency,  

2105
04:01:18,560 --> 04:01:24,400
communication, and efficiency in government. 
As an ironic aside, I will close by noting  

2106
04:01:24,399 --> 04:01:29,439
that on May 18th, council never got a chance to 
discuss the amendments I asked the council clerk  

2107
04:01:29,439 --> 04:01:34,319
to share with the public and the other counselors 
ahead of that meeting. And those amendments never  

2108
04:01:34,319 --> 04:01:39,199
will be discussed because the amendments I 
suggested to the raise ordinances tonight  

2109
04:01:39,199 --> 04:01:45,279
came from the city solicitor. So the two amended 
versions suggested on May 18th and referenced in  

2110
04:01:45,279 --> 04:01:57,279
this open meeting law complaint have had and 
will have exactly no impact on council policy.

2111
04:01:57,279 --> 04:01:59,120
Thank you.

2112
04:02:00,720 --> 04:02:05,760
Does anybody else want to speak on the ordinance 
on the on this? Do we have a motion? Um,  

2113
04:02:05,760 --> 04:02:10,000
what I'm looking for is a motion to 
approve that. I can respond back. Um,  

2114
04:02:10,000 --> 04:02:16,000
and we we'll take a vote on that. Councelor Riley.

2115
04:02:16,000 --> 04:02:20,319
Yeah. I'd like to make a motion that we find that 
there's no violation and allow the president to  

2116
04:02:20,319 --> 04:02:25,040
respond to this matter and respond to the um, 
Secretary of State's office. Okay. Do we have a  

2117
04:02:25,040 --> 04:02:31,840
second? Seconded by Councelor Ryan. Did you want 
to speak? Okay. Second. Anybody on the motion?  

2118
04:02:31,840 --> 04:02:38,400
Second. Ready for roll call vote. Councelor Ash. 
Yes. Council Deona. Council Hubley. Yes. Council  

2119
04:02:38,399 --> 04:02:50,080
Jacobs. Council McKe. Yes. Council Riley. Yes. 
Council Ryan. Yes. Council. Yes. N. All right. So,  

2120
04:02:50,080 --> 04:02:59,040
we're moving on to item number two. Okay. Item 
number two. 2020606 ordinance rules safeguarding  

2121
04:02:59,040 --> 04:03:02,960
transparency, public access to information 
and democratic participation in city council  

2122
04:03:02,960 --> 04:03:12,319
proceedings. Councelor McGee. So um we had a 
meeting of rules committee earlier this evening  

2123
04:03:12,319 --> 04:03:18,399
and we passed it um with amendments um with a 
positive recommendation out of committee. All  

2124
04:03:18,399 --> 04:03:24,080
right. So we need a motion to pass. Motion to 
accept it by the full body. Okay. A seconded by  

2125
04:03:24,080 --> 04:03:33,760
council on the motion. Roll call vote. Council 
Ash. Yes. Council Dabona. Council Hubley. Yes.  

2126
04:03:33,760 --> 04:03:40,720
Council Jacobs. Yes. Council McKe. Council Riley. 
Yes. Council Ryan. Yes. Councilw. Yes. President  

2127
04:03:40,720 --> 04:03:49,680
Mooney. Yes. Nes as amended. All right. So once 
again, I'm going to um take into effect rule 27.  

2128
04:03:49,680 --> 04:03:53,520
um taking um the late item that will 
require two-thirds of a vote that was  

2129
04:03:53,520 --> 04:03:57,121
added to the agenda tonight. That was just 
to bring the ordinance amending municipal  

2130
04:03:57,120 --> 04:04:02,640
code for strengthening the auditor auditor um 
powers of the auditor. So before we do that,  

2131
04:04:02,640 --> 04:04:07,920
we have to take a we have to take a vote 
to be able to do those. Do I need Yeah,  

2132
04:04:07,920 --> 04:04:14,640
we're just going to take a roll call vote. Yeah. 
Okay. Councelor Ash, yes. Council Deona, Council  

2133
04:04:14,640 --> 04:04:22,161
Huby, yes. Council Jacobs, yes. Council McKe, yes. 
Council Riley, yes. Council Ryan. Yes. Councilman.  

2134
04:04:22,160 --> 04:04:29,519
Yes. Yes. All right. So, moving on. So, what you 
have in your package tonight, this is a while ago,  

2135
04:04:29,520 --> 04:04:36,081
too. I feel like it was a snowstorm. We were um we 
we were all in agreement with with the language,  

2136
04:04:36,080 --> 04:04:41,519
but we didn't have it in the right right sections 
within the um within the ordinance itself. So,  

2137
04:04:41,520 --> 04:04:47,680
that has been updated and it's been redlined and 
provided to everybody here this evening. And if  

2138
04:04:47,680 --> 04:04:54,080
everybody thinks it looks okay at this point, I'll 
just need a motion. Motion to approve as amended.  

2139
04:04:54,080 --> 04:05:03,120
Motion to approve as amended by councelor Riley. 
Seconded by I did actually That's fine. Thanks.  

2140
04:05:03,120 --> 04:05:11,599
Thank you. Uh, Madam President, with respect to 
um page 3, section 66-16, there's a miscellaneous  

2141
04:05:11,600 --> 04:05:16,480
provision that reads um the city auditor should 
be prohibited from contributing to either by  

2142
04:05:16,479 --> 04:05:20,799
financial or inind contribution participating 
in the campaign of any candidate for Quinsey  

2143
04:05:20,800 --> 04:05:25,680
City Council or mayor or in the campaign of any 
Quinsey city council or mayor of Quinsey for any  

2144
04:05:25,680 --> 04:05:31,280
other political office. I guess my question 
with that provision is is that is is that  

2145
04:05:31,279 --> 04:05:38,639
um does that sentiment is that carried out in 
any other departments or um are we setting a  

2146
04:05:38,640 --> 04:05:42,480
precedent here or and has that provision? 
I didn't change it. That was that was the  

2147
04:05:42,479 --> 04:05:49,439
actual language that was there. Okay, understood. 
Thank you. That was existing. I I did I saw it in  

2148
04:05:49,439 --> 04:05:54,639
um that's all good. All right. Thank you. Sorry. 
I can't answer as far as other departments, but  

2149
04:05:54,640 --> 04:06:01,840
Okay. Is that your only question? Yes. Okay. Do I 
have a second? Second. Second by council Ash. Um,  

2150
04:06:01,840 --> 04:06:08,560
roll call vote. Councelor Ash. Yes. Council Deona. 
Council Hubley. Yes. Council Jacobs. Yes. Council  

2151
04:06:08,560 --> 04:06:15,920
McKay. Yes. Council Riley. Yes. Council Ryan. 
Yes. Council. Yes. President H. Yes. Moving on  

2152
04:06:15,920 --> 04:06:25,680
to item number four. Item number four. 2026 029 
ordinance repeal of may raise ordinance 2024-055.

2153
04:06:26,640 --> 04:06:33,040
So this is council McKe. So um this was uh 
discussed just now in the ordinance committee  

2154
04:06:33,040 --> 04:06:41,199
and we u made amendments and um passed this 
ordinance um as amended out of committee with  

2155
04:06:41,199 --> 04:06:47,040
a positive recommendation. Excellent. So I make 
a motion to approve it as the full body. Okay. Do  

2156
04:06:47,040 --> 04:06:54,640
we have a second? Second by councel here. Do you 
have someone to speak? Yes. So point of order. Um,  

2157
04:06:54,640 --> 04:06:58,640
I believe councelor through you, sorry. Uh, I 
believe council Ash mentioned something about  

2158
04:06:58,640 --> 04:07:02,800
having to adjust the way it reads on the agenda or 
is that did I miss the end of that conversation?  

2159
04:07:02,800 --> 04:07:07,360
Because right now it says repeal and we changed 
it. Does that matter? I just want to make sure  

2160
04:07:07,359 --> 04:07:11,599
before we went forward. That's not part of 
the order, but I'll change for historical.  

2161
04:07:11,600 --> 04:07:17,040
I'll change She'll change it for historical 
housekeeping thing, not Okay. Thank you.

2162
04:07:18,800 --> 04:07:24,000
So, we have a motion by councelor McKe, 
seconded by councelor Hubley. Anybody  

2163
04:07:24,000 --> 04:07:31,600
else? Roll call vote. Council Ash, yes. Council 
Deona, no. Council Hubley, yes. Council Jacobs,  

2164
04:07:31,600 --> 04:07:38,400
yes. Council McKe, yes. Council Riley, yes. 
Council Ryan, yes. Council Yuen, President Money,  

2165
04:07:38,399 --> 04:07:48,319
yes. Moving on to item number five. Item number 
five, 2026 030 ordinance repeal of council Ray's  

2166
04:07:48,319 --> 04:07:55,759
ordinance 2024056. Councelor McKe. So this we 
had a positive recommendation out of committee  

2167
04:07:55,760 --> 04:08:03,920
um as amended and I move to um pass this uh 
that version uh in the full council. Okay. We  

2168
04:08:03,920 --> 04:08:10,960
have a motion to accept seconded by council 
on the motion. Roll call vote. Council Ash.  

2169
04:08:10,960 --> 04:08:16,640
Yes. Councelor Deon. Yes. Council Hubley. Yes. 
Council Jacobs. Yes. Council McKe. Yes. Council  

2170
04:08:16,640 --> 04:08:25,440
Riley. Yes. Council Ryan. Yes. Council. Yes. 
President Mooney. Yes. Nine members. Number six.

2171
04:08:25,439 --> 04:08:32,319
Okay. Item number 6, 2026 031. Ordinance repeal 
annual raises for elected officials. Ordinance  

2172
04:08:32,319 --> 04:08:39,359
CO number was 2024090. Council McKay. Positive 
recommendation as amended out of committee. And  

2173
04:08:39,359 --> 04:08:45,679
I make a motion to approve that version by the 
full council. Okay. Motion by councelor McGee,  

2174
04:08:45,680 --> 04:08:53,120
seconded by councelor Yuen. On the motion, not 
seeing any. Roll call vote. Council Ash, yes.  

2175
04:08:53,120 --> 04:08:58,960
Council Deona, yes. Council Hubley, yes. Council 
Jacobs, yes. Council McKe, yes. Council Riley,  

2176
04:08:58,960 --> 04:09:07,600
yes. Council Ryan, yes. Councilw, yes. President 
Mahoney, yes. So, next is upcoming meetings.  

2177
04:09:07,600 --> 04:09:13,520
Tuesday, September 8th, um at 7:30, we will have 
a council meeting. So, I'm sure you'll all miss  

2178
04:09:13,520 --> 04:09:34,640
us for the summer. Motion to adjourn by Councelor 
Riley. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you.