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All right. I'm going to call to order the council work session for Tuesday, September 8th. Moving on to

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having two topics of discussion, starting out with you know, the county sheriff's office,

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drone assistant response, and automated license plate reader, pilot, project, chief expert.

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Tonight we have a special guest with us. Everyone knows, shared, bread wise. Happy to have

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I'm here to do this presentation for all of you

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and so we can have a good discussion

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and talk about it that way.

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Also, before I turn it over to him,

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I just wanted to acknowledge that

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Sheriff Wise has been a mentor to me,

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new in my role as chief

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and when I call his cell phone the answers

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he has helped me through a lot of things

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that I haven't experienced before,

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so I'm really grateful for that

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and really the whole group of

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Anoka County chiefs treated me that way when I was new

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to do it, you know, at least I've heard of it.

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So, informer, please shape with the interhabits.

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Yeah, I did.

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Disappointed county.

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Yeah, 27 and a half years there, including 11

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and simply shape with the interhabits.

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Awesome.

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So I'll do it.

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Work sessions with us.

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I have another team.

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Obviously, we did some introductions, and it's nice

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to get a chance to talk about you.

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I'll try to keep this relatively tight.

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I don't know what your habit is, but I'm assuming

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in a work session like this to be a little bit

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conversational.

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as it relates to this. But I thought I'd give you sort of an overview of the topic really and

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have more of a philosophical conversation because I think in many ways people get the technology

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while simultaneously it gets mischaracterized for sure in other places. But if you don't mind,

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I don't want to talk about a couple things that we all wrestle with. But especially as elected

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that officials is putting all of this technology

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into context when it comes to people's opinions.

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We've all talked about keyboard warriors and so on,

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is that obviously I'm not immune to that myself,

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I get a fair amount of it.

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But I've changed, I shouldn't say a giant,

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I've learned some things along the way.

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And in that, so I left Cooner Rapids in 2022

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and when we did social media posting

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when I worked for the city of Cooner Rapids,

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If you put something on social media, you expect it to have a positive response, just a

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universally positive response.

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We're law enforcement, we're for the public, we're against some of the people having good

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things to say.

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Flash forward to 2026 and the world has turned upside down.

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And I had a bit of an epiphany as I was following some political races, not least the which the

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Senate race, and I specifically mentioned Michelle's play in Peggy Planning and mostly because

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because they have pretty big social media presences as you might imagine on Facebook.

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Almost all of the comments are negative for both of them.

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That's just rather than me supporting my team, I, in turn, I'll make it my mission to talk

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or smack, if you will, or whoever has a view that's different than mine.

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And the only reason I bring that up is that it was a eureka moment, you know, do your own

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research on this stuff and, you know, again, I don't know what you all personally

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experience, but I struggle with trying to put into context people saying

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things about this technology or law enforcement technology and what to do

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about it in terms of decision making because it affects a lot of people. We're

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380,000 people here in the Noca County and at least we all have responsibility to

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represent the people that we serve. So that said it's a tricky conversation and I

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I talk about this broad topic, public safety use technology, and actually I'm glad you're

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talking about data centers because it's an interesting conundrum from cities or for cities.

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In that you hear a lot of the negative, whatever is in the media is generally negative about

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data centers.

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Meanwhile, you know intuitively if every community says no to data centers, they're going

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to be in China.

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And we're going to have a whole different data privacy conversation of every data center

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is in China or some other country and that it just travels at the speed of light there and back.

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We got important issues to discuss, so in all of that makes it super hard for you all, for me,

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as it relates to this kind of technology, but I thought it would be helpful to talk a little bit about how we got here

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and one thing that I say a lot, so I started in law enforcement in 1995.

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And when I started in Koon Rapids at that time, a squad car had a radio and a shotgun and an ink pen, and that was it.

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And if I had a time machine, I could go back to 1933 when the first radios, two radios, got into squad cars.

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I could transport that person to 1995, except for a few laws that could immediately go to work and serve the citizens pretty well.

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Conversely, if I took me from 1995 and transported me into 2026, I couldn't start the car.

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All along the way is technology has changed, and you as elected officials, you have a

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police chief here that I highly regarded, known Chief Wemble here for a long time.

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I think you're lucky to have them.

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I know I said that before.

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But somewhere you have to pick a point, right, between no technology and every imaginable

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technology and you've got to find a spot that slips in right there and you're not going

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to please everybody for sure in that this technology for sure kind of slips into that space.

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Especially it's interesting in that ALPR's first came on the scene in 2009 license plate

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readers in 2009 where it was strictly a hot file item and we'll talk about what a hot file

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item means it wasn't really an investigative tool and then drones which will be part of this

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conversation to first started being used in 2015. So 17 and 11 years, I respect a

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week for those two items. And yet here we are now rustling with, you know, like

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data privacy and how much of me is public. You know, meanwhile, you all have

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conversations with a lot of people about cell phones, you know, the how much

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access to information has about you. And I hear it all the time, somebody will say to

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But yeah, I consented to that up to my cell phone.

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I chose to own it, knowing full of what it does, which in part is true in that Apple commits

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to not selling your data, but none of those apps do.

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And you know from your own shopping or whatever it is that you do on your cell phone that you'll

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be doing one thing on your home computer and then something pops up in your social media

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that is totally related and completely out of left field and you're like, man, somebody's

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watching me.

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But you can't figure it out, nor are you ever going to figure it out.

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Meanwhile, and it's kind of related to all of this, is that you have Supreme Court wrestling

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with privacy as it relates to all of this, and there was a Supreme Court decision that

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also pops up in this conversation as it relates to AOPRs about how much tracking can law enforcement

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do of a cell phone.

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And the Supreme Court puts some barriers around that in that it required the use of a search

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aren't to be able to to find particulars on an individual. That same mindset actually applies

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to ALPRs and again we'll kind of circle back to that topic too but the of courts that are

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wrestling with some of this stuff too you know and when I'm in public on a road how much privacy

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might entitle to what is an ALPR do and so on it's all very tricky. Meanwhile in the context of

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people voluntarily giving up their privacy they're sort of these government personal data

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points that cross which you all notice we go to the airport now. Yeah they take

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your ID and they have you look at a machine right you have no idea what that

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machine does I don't as I know is when I look in the machine person gives me a

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thumbs up without ever handing them a boarding pass anymore remember you step to

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show a passport don't have to do that anymore and you walk you walk through it and

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oh thank god if that went faster than I expected and you have people voluntarily

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giving a personal data for convenience or personal data for a free french fry or a small coffee

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that comes around a little more regularly than my otherwise gift. So how do we wrestle with all of that?

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Is that, meanwhile, another thing that comes up too is ring cameras.

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I think you're like these comparisons of a ring. I'm out of curiosity. I'm going to do you have a ring or something similar on your house.

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I do. Not giving up that personal battle. Yeah.

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Well, it's interesting. Again, it falls in the category of in a here for people to is that yeah, I volunteer to have that

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I read camera and I do it to protect myself from stuff being stolen or my family or whatever it is.

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But meanwhile nobody asked for the consent of their neighbors to record them as they drive by your house or they walk by your house.

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In fact, the way my house is oriented, I'm kind of on a corner.

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My ring camera looks at probably the front doors of three, several houses all in a row.

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I can see you would come out, I can't see them, I actually go into the door.

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But I'm not asking for their consent, this time it works out for you.

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So, I wanted to show you this company, it's called Imaginario.

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So, imagine an area is a software company that takes any visual data and can interpret

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the data that it sees in your video.

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It's marketed as you can take, like let's say you have VHS tapes, I'm guessing all of

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you do of your childhood or whatever, the VHS tapes, if you convert them to digital and

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uploaded them to a imaginary of this software company will as according to their marketing

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automatically index every scene, face, action, object, and spoken word find any moment

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is what it said.

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So this is what the public has access to.

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Its intent is if you have 50 hours with a VHS tapes or DVD, you can find every time birthday

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party was on their use birthday party and a pub's birthday or grandma speaking any

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dev grandma speaking things that are precious to you.

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Which all again makes it very interesting in that we have people that are saying gosh

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I just don't want law enforcement to have access to this private data while simultaneously

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public has access to the private they can take their ring camera footage put it into a software

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system it can do all the sort of data mining. For whatever purpose that's completely unregulated

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which we will get to here in a minute. So for our safe county project it's drone assistive

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response and license plate reader expansion and I'm going to talk about drones but super briefly

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I'm guessing none of you have heard any critical word of a drone if you did has probably been

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been in pass and crap where you know somebody will say I don't want to drone

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certainly in my house well that's not how they're designed to work and

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I don't actually I guess I reordered my slides but that that's not how the drones

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themselves work that the drones that we're talking about are the exact same drones

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that we've had since 2015 they might do little upgrades than a technology

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but where drones today are launched from a trunk

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instead a drone will be launched at the time of college dispatch and actually your

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fire from this spring is the incident that I use more often than not to talk

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about how important a drone assistive response it is in that you had a

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opposite of garage fire that spread to a wet land that then threatened the whole

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entire neighborhood that your fire chief would have loved or your police

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friend would have loved to have that kind of intel a scene size up which is their

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term that a drone would have offered before they every been arrived at the scene.

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So, truthfully, drones, primarily the benefit for drone is going to be mostly on the

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fire side of things, but on the loss of things when we need a drone, we really do need a drone

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for sure. But I also need to keep in mind for this profession. For our profession, as we

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talk about this stuff, it is that by necessity, the law enforcement has always needed access

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us to private data, intensely personal data.

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We all make sure, in fact, we have two cops here,

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so that it's an axon camera right here,

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two that are wearing an axon cameras.

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They go into homes to see whatever incident happens

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within a home, and they wear the cameras

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because they're expected to wear the cameras.

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And in fact, the public demanded that they wear a camera.

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I mean, that was the genesis of them.

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But here you have the juxtaposition now in 2026 where people worry about the privacy

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and like, wait a minute, you know, what do I trust my law enforcement to know?

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And I'm sure you're sensing, I'm not meaning for this to be some sort of set up to either

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unreasonably defend license plate readers, but it feels important to me just to put that

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kind of data into context of what you're asking your law enforcement to do.

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because universally with every law enforcement leader that I know of, they'll say they'll tell you that it's a valuable tool.

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In fact, somebody who works in law enforcement saying that the invasion of privacy is too great for the benefit.

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There are a random couple of law enforcement people that say that, but invariably they're like patrol officers or former patrol officer who I watched.

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Tucker Carlson did a show on ALPRs and they had some kid that was bad

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male like I've shocked at how much data an ALPR collected and it's outrageous

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invasion of privacy and it was a 27-year-old former patrol officer that worked

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somewhere in Rhode Island and in my head I'm like man that's the best you

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couldn't find a police chief anywhere in the truth of the matter so you can have a

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hard time finding any law enforcement leader when they talk about waiting the

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value of the tool being used and in what it's capable of doing as opposed to the privacy,

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because truthfully when I'll show you what an AOPR actually gathers in terms of data

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is really benign data that, well, you'll just see for yourself.

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So, point being is that we need access to private data, and we've always respected private data, and there's, yes, there will be road cops, there will always be road cops.

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That's just my attention is two things. One, what do agencies do when cops do go rogue? And I don't know if any road cop in Minnesota, that keeps their job. And especially as it relates to abuse in this ALPR system, if there's become something that gets abused by somebody. I'll bet a paycheck. It's going to be over some sort of love gone bad. That would be the same. In fact, if you read any of them nationwide, almost always. It's an X of some variety.

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that they quote unquote stock, which we'll talk about some, too.

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But you find about it in these agencies provide that information, they take affirmative steps

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to deal with it in terms of either terminating somebody and or convicting them of crimes,

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which for sure would be the thing that would happen in Minnesota, too.

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We don't, except for this one particular tool, ALPR, though,

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So we don't talk about throwing the tool in the garbage because it's abused, right?

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And it's, you know, a handgun gets abused somewhere.

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Nobody says, oh, cops can't have handguns anymore, or, you know, it was, uh, driver's license

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data years ago was abused by some cops, and it just was dealt with for forcefully, and then

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that has gone away.

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And, and truthfully, the driver's license data, DBS, as they call it, that problem went away

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because of audits.

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it's routine audits, much the same way that DLPRs have a built-in hot and that's a part of it.

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I want you to know about the controlling statutes. There's a Minnesota statute related to

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license plate readers and there's a statute related to my management or drones. If you do any research

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on your own those would be the two places that I would recommend. You do research because Minnesota

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sort of wrote some really tight laws in that for both of those things, Minnesota says,

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here's what you can use these devices for and nothing else.

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They didn't write it in a way that sort of was going to be one thing at a time where something

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went rogue or bad or wrong and then suddenly the law needs to get amended.

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We got to eliminate that use of it or that abuse of it.

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It was written in that only certain things are allowed to be done with use of the license plate readers and with the drones.

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And it answers a lot of questions for the public when they have them.

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And you can't, if I get, if I bristle at any time, it's somebody saying, you know, that's just a law, as if implying that somehow me or anybody that's in a law enforcement position

220
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with just disregard the law because I felt it was just my personal opinion was

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too important so I was going to ignore it a lot. That's not how it works. That's not how it's

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ever worked whether it's related to supports or the footage that's on these cameras that go into

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people's homes. I mean theoretically somewhere down the road all the images that are caught on an

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axon body camera could be downloaded into that imaginary software and say, you'll find

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00:18:13,740 --> 00:18:19,720
me a legal pill spoon and then suddenly you know what we would call a plain view search

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like a bio in your house and I see some contraband. I can see that under plain view doctrine.

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But the law doesn't cover for instance what if the body camera you know just does a sweep

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your house where the cop was lawfully at and then goes back to the office and then downloads it

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and find me anything illegal seen in this image and again it's if that were the case and I'm sure

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a software could eventually get to that space that would be capable of doing it is the answer then

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to get rid of body cameras which has whole other consequences or is the answer to say we need better

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regulations that are tied around that.

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And I hope, and I would say to you all, is that I'm a

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citizen, I ask you a tough question, this is that.

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We're not, we're kidding ourselves if we're thinking

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that technology isn't going to keep moving forward.

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Like I told you before, I was, I was a radio, a two-way

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radio, a shotgun, and pencil and paper 31 years ago.

239
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It would be ridiculous to think that 31 years from now

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the technology we're talking about today will be quaint and anticipated by comparison.

241
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So this wrestling match for any elected official is just going to be ongoing for the foreseeable

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future.

243
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:41,160
But let's just talk about drones just for a quick thing so that you can have this too.

244
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Just the way that drone response works is exactly like you would hope it would work.

245
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Dispatch receives a 911 call.

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If it's authorized in a Minnesota statute, and there's 11 specific reasons that it launches authorized again, it isn't the case that you can just launch and then guess later, you can only launch under these 11 circumstances, and if you launch outside of those 11 circumstances, you're violating the law.

247
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So once the launch is authorized, the drone takes off.

248
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It flies directly towards going using GPS coordinates,

249
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because it's the difference of this drone's sister response

250
00:20:22,940 --> 00:20:28,700
and a trunk-launched response is that the drone doesn't need

251
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a pilot to keep an eyesight on the drone itself.

252
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The drone can operate with some autonomy,

253
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which can, I don't see a lot of people,

254
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Everybody can a large feeling, oh my God,

255
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or Joan can do whatever it is on its own,

256
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but it's a good thing.

257
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Joan takes off, flies to where it's going,

258
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and looks down and provides a scene assessment

259
00:20:49,380 --> 00:20:51,160
of a 911 call or the circumstance

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that's authorized under law.

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And it's the benefit to, on the fireside of things

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is straight up obvious.

263
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You all know that over responding

264
00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:03,680
to fire incidents is a occupational hazard

265
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for firefighters because they're afraid of under responding.

266
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So, too many assets get really expensive for cities, there's zero doubt in my mind that

267
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a city can turn that into a math problem and say how much did this drone actually save

268
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us in staff time, especially if you have pay-and-a-call volunteers that are being called in for certain

269
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kinds of incidents.

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You know where you had that wetland fire, you would have want every resource possible very

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immediately, but the converse is true too when somebody calls and say, oh, there's smoke

272
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at my neighbor's house and then you know ten firefighters showed with three trucks and find out

273
00:21:39,100 --> 00:21:43,480
that it's a campfire that had some green leaves on it and those sorts of things wouldn't happen

274
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anymore. So I think I think it speaks for itself in many ways for the on the law enforcement side

275
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of things it's these you know the tactical advantage of it is second to the line for some really bad

276
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what could be really bad incidents it's I guess it's always worthwhile to tell one story. So why

277
00:22:00,660 --> 00:22:04,980
It was line of lakes earlier this summer before the school year got out.

278
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There was a domestic, a domestic that was called out, and then when the officers got there,

279
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or just before the officers got there, there was a gunshot that was heard from within the

280
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house, that was on part of the 911 call.

281
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,860
When the first officers got there, when they did a sort of survey around the building,

282
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I saw a back window was open to this house and as far as I knew the person who had shot

283
00:22:32,180 --> 00:22:36,360
and hopped up the window and took off on his broad daylight during his life or something

284
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:36,800
like that.

285
00:22:37,220 --> 00:22:41,220
And there were two small schools or two schools of young people, I guess, that were nearby

286
00:22:41,220 --> 00:22:48,020
both of those schools who were notified of the incident and placed on a lot down, invariably

287
00:22:48,020 --> 00:22:51,980
scaring the crap out of the staff and who were probably working very hard and trying not

288
00:22:51,980 --> 00:22:54,300
to scare the children that were in these schools.

289
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,180
Meanwhile, they later found out that it was, yes,

290
00:22:58,340 --> 00:23:00,820
there wasn't a mistake, but the person ultimately died

291
00:23:00,820 --> 00:23:02,600
by suicide and had hanged on suicide.

292
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And that had drawn been over ahead.

293
00:23:05,180 --> 00:23:06,880
The John would have seen nobody ran out of window

294
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and that whole thing could have been prevented.

295
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,260
Again, it's just an example, yes, that I like to use.

296
00:23:12,380 --> 00:23:13,960
But here's the money one.

297
00:23:14,220 --> 00:23:18,380
Here's the ALPRs, though, the thing that has people.

298
00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:21,020
So concern.

299
00:23:21,020 --> 00:23:23,100
So what data is actually captured?

300
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,000
These are a flat camera.

301
00:23:27,540 --> 00:23:28,280
I don't know how many of you have here.

302
00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:29,500
You have eight.

303
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,080
They have eight in Ramsey.

304
00:23:32,340 --> 00:23:33,320
They're mounted on poles.

305
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:34,800
They look at the road.

306
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:36,620
And they take a snapshot.

307
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,320
And that's exactly what you see in those photos is exactly

308
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,620
what happens other than the orange thing covering up the license plate.

309
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:44,880
It would be the full plate.

310
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So it gives the date, time, the wear.

311
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:57,400
and then it's an image of the car, and that's the sum, totally love it. The photo is under the way,

312
00:23:57,660 --> 00:24:03,360
I think most of them guessing Ramsey hasn't set this way. It's the photo is automatically deleted after 30 days.

313
00:24:04,140 --> 00:24:08,040
It's just to which to seven, all right. So, because Fox-A-D,

314
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,360
Fox-A-D's recommendation or default setting now is seven days.

315
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,860
And actually, why am I not keeping mine there?

316
00:24:17,220 --> 00:24:21,000
I don't know if it eats major companies that do sell AOPRs.

317
00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:25,480
Flock has become sort of the Linux of the AOPR universe.

318
00:24:25,940 --> 00:24:29,660
Because it makes for pretty cool bumper sticker, D-Flock, and all that stuff.

319
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,940
I bet it might say Flock would have picked a tougher name.

320
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,400
It's hard to come up with a cool one.

321
00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:35,240
That bad mouse, Axon.

322
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:39,120
But Axon has AOPRs also.

323
00:24:39,340 --> 00:24:42,000
But you never hear Axon's name getting mentioned.

324
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,020
or the one called Blue Line, another one called Leonardo,

325
00:24:46,620 --> 00:24:48,580
you've never even heard of these companies before.

326
00:24:49,340 --> 00:24:53,280
But it's the exact same tool that does the exact same thing.

327
00:24:53,460 --> 00:24:56,540
So it takes a photo of cars going by,

328
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,500
and that is the data that it's capturing.

329
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All right, cop files.

330
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So this falls in the category of an opinion.

331
00:25:07,580 --> 00:25:13,420
And in my opinion, the ability to compare that image

332
00:25:13,420 --> 00:25:17,880
to a hotfile is 90% of what's good about a license plate

333
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,100
reader camera.

334
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,120
And what is a hotfile?

335
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,380
Hotfile is stolen cars, cars that

336
00:25:27,380 --> 00:25:30,320
are wanted that are involved in crimes, cars that

337
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,620
are involved in missing persons, kidnappings, runaways.

338
00:25:34,820 --> 00:25:38,860
any time police are looking for a vehicle, so a police officer takes a police

339
00:25:38,860 --> 00:25:43,420
support and he goes, my gosh, I really need to find that vehicle because of one

340
00:25:43,420 --> 00:25:48,720
of these factors. Officers make a police support, they create what's a hot

341
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:54,300
file and that hot file gets uploaded into the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal

342
00:25:54,300 --> 00:26:00,840
Ampereensions database. They operate the driver and vehicle services database, so

343
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:08,240
like in the in the old days where a police officer would run a license plate

344
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,420
so would pull them behind your car and see your plate and they would type in

345
00:26:12,420 --> 00:26:16,820
your plate and enter it would compare it to the hot file and boom if something

346
00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:22,480
showed up on a hot file that's a car that we're looking for and then you know

347
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,160
the officers are expected to do verification and they have the right car in that

348
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,140
they'll initiate a traffic software radio the partners or whatever they'll

349
00:26:30,140 --> 00:26:35,640
somehow figure out how to get that car stopped. But it was used in a crime or

350
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:41,100
used in a significant incident. And finding those cars is a lot like finding a

351
00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:44,840
needle in a haystack. When I first started in law enforcement in 1995, we still

352
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,400
had hot files, but a hot file was typed on the sheet of paper. It was given to us

353
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,840
that roll call and the only cars that were on the hot file were the ones that

354
00:26:52,840 --> 00:27:00,400
that was stolen in your jurisdiction, or it was involved in a crime, it was just your

355
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,000
own jurisdiction as all you have.

356
00:27:02,980 --> 00:27:09,100
You can imagine that with this network of cameras, wherever it is, it can see any Minnesota

357
00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:13,360
hot file entry, and when the camera does,

358
00:27:15,820 --> 00:27:18,840
the way the data flows is that the camera takes

359
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:26,260
the photo, the license plate is interpreted via the software and it's compared to the

360
00:27:26,260 --> 00:27:31,200
hot list. It doesn't know anything about what the hot list is, but the camera can say

361
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,780
the car on your hot list exists, and then that information then goes to the cops who then

362
00:27:35,780 --> 00:27:40,960
the data pops up on the screen, right? It's the camera itself isn't where the brains are,

363
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:47,900
the camera just takes that photo, it compares it to the data, but it's on the data and it's

364
00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:52,380
the BCA end of things, the data that the cops are used to have in that private data

365
00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:57,480
they're used to working with, that's where that comparison takes place, and those hot

366
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:04,180
files are used in awful lot and are a big deal, and it used to be like when I first started

367
00:28:04,180 --> 00:28:08,920
if your car was stolen, you're not getting it back until it's on smashed up against a tree

368
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,100
or it gets reported as abandoned in a parking lot, whoever owns a parking lot says hey, this

369
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:18,960
cars been here for two months and then you would find the car and then that's how

370
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:26,620
you recovered it. So the speed and turning these things over is incredible and just

371
00:28:26,620 --> 00:28:32,680
the the capacity for it to do that is significant and again it's the human

372
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:38,140
does the work. The hotfile is created by human being, the hotfile was not created

373
00:28:38,140 --> 00:28:47,940
by FLOx safety or FLOx safety camera. The other part is as an investigative tool and there

374
00:28:47,940 --> 00:28:53,240
was just, if you caught in the news, was such a busy news weekend, but there was just a shooting in

375
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:58,940
Columbia Heights for young people involved in a shooting, some 80 rounds including automatic

376
00:28:58,940 --> 00:29:06,420
weapons fire that happened. I'm not necessarily picking on Columbia Heights, but I guess it'll sound

377
00:29:06,420 --> 00:29:08,880
like I am, but they covered all their flat cameras.

378
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,060
There was a thing, we support Columbia Heights

379
00:29:13,060 --> 00:29:14,400
and an investigation like that,

380
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,240
and they can't handle an investigation like that

381
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:16,940
on their own.

382
00:29:17,620 --> 00:29:20,480
But where we're at right now is three people,

383
00:29:20,860 --> 00:29:22,780
one of which had an automatic gun,

384
00:29:23,540 --> 00:29:26,180
hopped into a car with a big description and took off.

385
00:29:26,540 --> 00:29:31,240
If an ALPR had been there, as an investigative tool,

386
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,080
you could know the time that the shooting happened,

387
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,060
and you could know the time the car took off

388
00:29:37,060 --> 00:29:40,120
and then you could look at the ALPR data and see

389
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,400
if there was a car that matches the description,

390
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:43,700
but it wasn't the scene.

391
00:29:44,420 --> 00:29:48,920
And if it was, that ALPR has a good enough camera

392
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,860
to be able to discern the license plate

393
00:29:50,860 --> 00:29:51,980
that was screwed onto it.

394
00:29:52,420 --> 00:29:54,080
Now mind you, the criminals are eating smarter

395
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,120
and they're taking plates off of cars now,

396
00:29:56,260 --> 00:29:58,980
but they're not generally speaking rocket scientists.

397
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:29,460
And we rely on their dumbness and their slaviness to make arrests. But there are many, many stories of successful arrests for kidnappings, for shootings, for murders, for all kinds of things because of that investigative capability of the tool. Now that said, having a camera in the right place, at the right time looking at the right public road requires a little bit of luck. But,

398
00:30:30,060 --> 00:30:32,740
and we'll call it an occupational hazard of my own.

399
00:30:32,980 --> 00:30:36,280
I have such a bias for just if the tool is anywhere,

400
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,060
at least it gives me a shot, it's all in your crime.

401
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,480
And I wind up, I get over-invested in some of this stuff

402
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,760
because of real-world incidents.

403
00:30:46,380 --> 00:30:48,260
The Manny Collins trial coming up this fall,

404
00:30:48,380 --> 00:30:49,580
the kid who was bombing the landfill,

405
00:30:49,820 --> 00:30:51,640
of Worver Landfill, 16-year-old boy,

406
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,440
allegedly murdered by his father,

407
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,080
allegedly murdered by his father,

408
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:10,180
and who was dumped in a garbage dumpster, and it happened to be fortunately placed surveillance

409
00:31:10,180 --> 00:31:17,600
camera is why his mother, many calls mother, wasn't the new patty wetterland.

410
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,860
It was dumb luck of a camera.

411
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,660
For the record, don't throw car batteries in your garbage because they record garbage going

412
00:31:24,660 --> 00:31:25,380
into their trucks.

413
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,440
If you didn't know that already, I'm telling you, throw a tighter new garbage.

414
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:35,740
Don't do it because they can bell-trace all that stuff back and see where that happened,

415
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:40,320
but it was a key piece of evidence, no grant that it wasn't an AOPR.

416
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:46,720
But it was, I mean, you could say that your garbage gives up a lot of private data about

417
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:47,080
you, too.

418
00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:54,820
You discard it and it was your, but you have ordinances that require people to give it to their garbage

419
00:31:54,820 --> 00:32:00,000
an avid, picked up and so on, and that they had a camera that was looking at the right

420
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,000
pilot garbage was why that kid was recovered and why somebody's going to be able to

421
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:10,000
account and why the mother wasn't paddy wetterling for like 30 years praying to God that he just

422
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,860
disappeared and would come home meanwhile he was deceased.

423
00:32:13,460 --> 00:32:18,320
So I just acknowledge that I know that affects me and it's hard for me to have a heavy man

424
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:24,740
approach to some of these privacy issues that pop up, which is different than you all

425
00:32:25,540 --> 00:32:29,200
But it's all part of what I want to talk about here.

426
00:32:29,540 --> 00:32:33,680
So as an investigative tool, it is vitally important.

427
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:40,700
Koon Rapids, about a month ago, had a shooting, much like the one in Columbia Heights, at

428
00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:45,840
a crookedly beach park, where that is in that city, on the north part of the city.

429
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:53,580
And they had a flat camera, actually it was the park's department's flat camera was in

430
00:32:53,580 --> 00:32:57,280
in the park because parks tend to be managed for the other park.

431
00:32:57,420 --> 00:32:59,020
The end of your parks have a full-fled camera.

432
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,640
No, we're getting some PTZ cameras, but just cameras.

433
00:33:04,060 --> 00:33:07,480
And again, it's frustrating for me to hear somebody say,

434
00:33:07,620 --> 00:33:09,900
I don't trust local law enforcement with a camera.

435
00:33:10,340 --> 00:33:12,520
Me, I don't trust you to have a camera.

436
00:33:13,140 --> 00:33:14,820
Meanwhile, something bad happens at a community

437
00:33:14,820 --> 00:33:16,820
about the first thing that people ask for is cameras.

438
00:33:17,820 --> 00:33:20,140
Whether it's your fourth of July or carnival

439
00:33:20,140 --> 00:33:22,640
or you praise, or whatever people on cameras.

440
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,060
In fact, we're almost to the stage now,

441
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,440
where I think there's some question

442
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,420
when people were questioning whether a crime was committed

443
00:33:30,420 --> 00:33:31,840
if it wasn't captured on a camera,

444
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,340
which is, you know, again, it used to be,

445
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,780
when I first started, if I went to court and testified

446
00:33:36,780 --> 00:33:39,080
and somebody's speed, you could judge my word for it

447
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,160
and that was just all it was.

448
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,560
Now, I think if traffic stopped,

449
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,940
where the violation isn't caught on camera,

450
00:33:47,100 --> 00:33:49,380
I think, so I just won't even accept it

451
00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:51,200
it as a crime actually happening.

452
00:33:51,660 --> 00:33:53,700
It's just how much things have changed over time.

453
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,600
All right, so under Minnesota law,

454
00:33:58,100 --> 00:34:00,160
as it's related to license plate readers, again,

455
00:34:00,860 --> 00:34:02,980
the law is very restrictive, right?

456
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,460
And these two are important.

457
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,640
Cannot be used to monitor or track an individual

458
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,260
as a subject of investigation unless there is a surge warrant

459
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:13,940
or an exigent circumstance.

460
00:34:13,940 --> 00:34:15,400
And that really means an emergency.

461
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,440
And again, I hear it all the time, people go,

462
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,220
Oh, exigencer, you can make up anything to be an exigen circumstance.

463
00:34:22,340 --> 00:34:23,320
No, you can't.

464
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:29,840
Exigen circumstance would be like, if any of you are dealing with elderly parents that

465
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:35,240
have Alzheimer's or something, and my dad got in his car and took off because Alzheimer's

466
00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:40,020
is the only one where he is, routine call happened lots.

467
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,420
Law enforcement had no shot at helping that all 20 years ago.

468
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,200
It was, oh, well, your dad turns up somewhere.

469
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:52,700
and these people turned up in either bad places or deceased or whatever.

470
00:34:54,760 --> 00:35:02,760
Those in exigent circumstance would be, so if dad took off in his car, you could then create a hot file in that license plate.

471
00:35:03,260 --> 00:35:06,820
Then at the NAOPR side, that hot file license plate boom.

472
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:13,680
His car was last seen at this time at this location which then provides clues to start tracking somebody down.

473
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,640
So that's what it means. That's what emergency circumstance means.

474
00:35:17,740 --> 00:35:23,700
And then to track an individual, this is that cops can stop me if they want to.

475
00:35:24,740 --> 00:35:27,320
No, you can't. It requires a search warrant.

476
00:35:27,540 --> 00:35:31,480
And it's the exact same criteria that is that for your cell phone.

477
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,380
I can get a search warrant for your cell phone.

478
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,340
If I know that you were involved in a crime,

479
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,580
if I have a probable cause to believe you were involved in a crime,

480
00:35:39,580 --> 00:35:44,400
any one of you. And I know what your cell phone number is. I can get a search warrant written

481
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,860
by a judge that would authorize me to find out where your cell phone pinged off certain

482
00:35:48,860 --> 00:35:55,160
towers, which is far more invasive because your cell phone is always in your pocket. You never

483
00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:01,380
loan your cell phone out to anybody just to take for the day unlike your car. And it's an important

484
00:36:01,380 --> 00:36:06,760
consideration when people talk about privacy is just to remember you're talking about a car and

485
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:15,160
And like in our universe, just because a car was involved in an incident doesn't mean the owner of the car was involved and that's always a big deal.

486
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:24,720
Even the routine incident that pops up is like a traffic collision where the driver took off or off the nut because they're drunk.

487
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:32,920
But just because you're the registered owner doesn't mean that you're the one behind the wheel. We have to prove that you're the one behind the wheel, DNA swabs and all kinds of stuff.

488
00:36:33,820 --> 00:36:39,180
Also, I'm trying to do is to say that there is still a warrant of requirement and there

489
00:36:39,180 --> 00:36:42,980
isn't just random checking people out.

490
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:52,120
The other piece of that, under Minnesota law, is that other information other than a

491
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,580
vehicle picture with the plate number, date, time, and location is prohibited.

492
00:36:55,900 --> 00:36:59,260
No other data is allowed to be collected under Minnesota statute.

493
00:36:59,260 --> 00:37:07,080
Now that's not true in other states and sometimes you'll hear people say and like I can use

494
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:15,420
flocking for instances that flocks safety does some traffic management like speed of reading

495
00:37:15,420 --> 00:37:22,480
the word public worst people like average speed data you know when you guys put the tubes out

496
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:28,520
on the roads to out to test out traffic speed and do these speed studies is 35 the right speeds

497
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,100
of women or whatever it is, I'm sure you've been involved in this thing.

498
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:38,200
That FOX safety apparently has a tool that does that, but it's not authorized in Minnesota.

499
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,680
We can't even collect that data.

500
00:37:41,580 --> 00:37:42,720
So it's just important.

501
00:37:43,380 --> 00:37:47,160
So people will say, oh, it's going to check your speed and merely your speed and take

502
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:47,340
it.

503
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,680
You're like, I don't know what happens on other states, but not in Minnesota.

504
00:37:54,020 --> 00:37:54,180
All right.

505
00:37:54,440 --> 00:38:00,220
So AOPRs do gather and store data, however they not do it, or they do it mindlessly.

506
00:38:00,220 --> 00:38:02,000
You know, they just take a photo of the back of the car.

507
00:38:02,140 --> 00:38:02,760
It's no different.

508
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,480
I could stand out there with my cell phone

509
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,140
and just snap the photo of every single car as a cop.

510
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,000
And it's the way I phrase it, it's, um,

511
00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:14,040
they help here, it's our good cameras,

512
00:38:14,180 --> 00:38:16,300
but they aren't magic cameras to hear some people talk.

513
00:38:16,420 --> 00:38:17,740
It's where the camera flies out,

514
00:38:17,740 --> 00:38:20,180
the pole will follow them all the way to their home address,

515
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:23,420
or, you know, to their, to a church service,

516
00:38:23,500 --> 00:38:26,360
or to an abortion clinic, and then to them voting,

517
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,660
and somehow the camera can piece this all together.

518
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,420
But in reality, when the camera's just on a pole,

519
00:38:33,860 --> 00:38:38,760
all of the camera does is see that a car on by you

520
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,540
was at that place at that time.

521
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,340
And even for the people who do this,

522
00:38:44,860 --> 00:38:47,280
I'm stocking my ex-wife and I'm stocking her.

523
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,700
I'm confounded as to how that could possibly

524
00:38:50,700 --> 00:38:54,480
be useful beyond catching that person and why.

525
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:59,840
Did you go to blank? No, I didn't. Why saw you were on the road or something like that.

526
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:06,080
But, like I said, they're good cameras, they're not magic cameras. The data moves only one

527
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:11,780
way, meaning from the camera to law enforcement. So the power is within the software that the

528
00:39:11,780 --> 00:39:19,000
PD has in order to decipher the data. And it doesn't. And again, to me, it makes no sense

529
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:24,000
that you would say the private sector can have all sorts of software to decipher data like

530
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,560
I can imagine, but well, we don't want our law enforcement agency to have the ability

531
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,380
to cite for data.

532
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:36,200
That's an opinion, actually, the way I phrase that this is that, you know, how nice

533
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,420
it must be for somebody to be so confident in you or somebody you love is never going

534
00:39:40,420 --> 00:39:44,580
to be victim of a violent crime to not have that in your concern, because I guarantee you

535
00:39:44,580 --> 00:39:49,620
anybody who's a victim of a violent crime or is a loved one that's a victim of a violent

536
00:39:49,620 --> 00:39:56,240
crime moves heaven and earth. If the world would demand every every avenue would be taken to solve

537
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:02,060
crimes. There's a lot of pressure placed on these guys here to solve crimes for your citizens

538
00:40:02,060 --> 00:40:07,940
and sometimes even most benign crimes but when it's you know like from our perspective but when

539
00:40:07,940 --> 00:40:12,340
you're personally violated it's a big deal to you like even getting egged if your house gets egged

540
00:40:12,340 --> 00:40:15,660
and man you can get really mad about something like that. It stains your pain or whatever and you're like

541
00:40:15,660 --> 00:40:17,980
Oh, it just shatters your sense of safety where you live.

542
00:40:18,820 --> 00:40:20,840
And you'll call the cops, and you'll expect that something

543
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:21,680
is done about it.

544
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,500
And I'm not saying LPRs are appropriate tool

545
00:40:25,980 --> 00:40:27,960
for trying to sort something like that out.

546
00:40:28,300 --> 00:40:30,760
But I think it just highlights the pressure

547
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,900
of that law enforcement has placed on it

548
00:40:33,370 --> 00:40:35,880
to solve crimes in the act on behalf of their citizens.

549
00:40:37,340 --> 00:40:41,240
And I hope that agencies don't want to handcuff

550
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:44,720
their capacity of any police department

551
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:51,260
Based on information that really isn't accurate, doesn't create a clear picture of what these

552
00:40:51,260 --> 00:40:53,080
tools can do or how they work.

553
00:40:53,980 --> 00:40:59,100
So the data only can be searched by law enforcement for a purpose authorized under this statute.

554
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,420
All searches are logged and audited.

555
00:41:03,620 --> 00:41:10,720
Flock safety, the brand, has an automatic audit feature that flags suspicious looking searches

556
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:18,920
And again, it's just, I haven't seen that aspect of it, but it's just, if you're query

557
00:41:19,510 --> 00:41:22,780
looks funny, it'll flag it for it to be checked out.

558
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,680
And the thing that we are good in law enforcement is self-reporting people that go wrong.

559
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:29,580
We're good at it.

560
00:41:29,900 --> 00:41:30,920
We don't keep secrets.

561
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,680
And people who say that we do are wrong.

562
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:42,500
In contrast, you know, we have this powerful cell phone in your pocket and you never once

563
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:48,880
heard of a Verizon employee abusing Verizon's data to track a lover but do any of us honestly

564
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:54,400
believe that no Verizon employee has never used their access to data of the cell phones

565
00:41:54,400 --> 00:42:00,100
within their network to track down somebody that, you know, somebody who broke their heart

566
00:42:00,100 --> 00:42:03,960
or stole their records or whatever they're dating myself, stole their,

567
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,520
that's really the only thing I'm interested in.

568
00:42:07,060 --> 00:42:08,160
Yeah, that's really weird.

569
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:10,800
Yeah, I've got flipped password, that's better.

570
00:42:14,540 --> 00:42:17,680
But of course, you know that that's happening,

571
00:42:17,820 --> 00:42:19,120
you just won't ever hear about it.

572
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,820
And we do that.

573
00:42:22,220 --> 00:42:26,100
And we report that stuff because it matters to us.

574
00:42:26,100 --> 00:42:28,240
You know, we work for the citizens.

575
00:42:28,420 --> 00:42:32,380
Actually, people bring up 1984 to me too all of a sudden.

576
00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:34,740
And so they brought it up to me so much, you know,

577
00:42:34,780 --> 00:42:35,960
the book, or the movie, whatever.

578
00:42:36,180 --> 00:42:38,380
They brought it up to me so much that I bought the book again,

579
00:42:38,580 --> 00:42:41,300
because like, you know, I'm a person of a certain age.

580
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,140
I graduated high school in the 1980s.

581
00:42:43,660 --> 00:42:46,760
And I probably had it as a Simon in 10th grade to read 1984.

582
00:42:47,980 --> 00:42:50,820
But it's not a valid comparison.

583
00:42:52,020 --> 00:42:55,080
The big brother was there to keep the government

584
00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:00,220
and power, we use this ALPR technology law enforcement

585
00:43:00,220 --> 00:43:01,940
that's to serve the citizens, that's it.

586
00:43:02,660 --> 00:43:05,260
And if we do anything beyond serve the citizens

587
00:43:05,260 --> 00:43:06,960
with any of the tools that we have,

588
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,360
we've got a road and any user can be fired

589
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,200
and or incarcerated if the statutes say that.

590
00:43:13,580 --> 00:43:18,060
So what ALPRs do not do, no facial recognition.

591
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,600
It's not to say that facial recognition won't be possible

592
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:23,520
somewhere down the road.

593
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:31,280
I guarantee you it will, actually talk about retina scanning here in a second.

594
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,220
That'll be probably the way area goes.

595
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,220
But there's no facial recognition because Minnesota law says you can't.

596
00:43:37,340 --> 00:43:43,260
For sure, there are people working like crazy to figure out facial recognition.

597
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,620
I know you've heard about other news stories about it being used elsewhere,

598
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,880
New York or whatever, and they talk about how good it is or isn't.

599
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,040
kind of the irony because it comes up regarding immigration enforcement, you know,

600
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:01,220
ice work is that ALPR's being used for ice work again at Paul's in the category.

601
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:06,140
I don't see the value or how it could have been an important tool.

602
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,000
That said, was it used as a search term?

603
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:14,200
Yeah, a few hundred times, apparently, I don't know what the number is up to deportations now

604
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:21,140
in this country, but it's somewhere between half a million and one million and I don't know

605
00:44:21,140 --> 00:44:22,360
who typed in those search terms.

606
00:44:22,660 --> 00:44:24,900
But those search terms are not authorized

607
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:25,360
in Minnesota.

608
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,660
You can't use immigration as a search term.

609
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:28,980
We don't allow that.

610
00:44:31,140 --> 00:44:33,300
And then I set, like I just reiterated a collection

611
00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:35,700
of any data that is not authorized

612
00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:36,480
is prohibited.

613
00:44:36,940 --> 00:44:39,060
ALPR do not have access to databases.

614
00:44:40,140 --> 00:44:43,080
So the database, like I talked, the hot file

615
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,300
can be triggered by what the ALPRC is,

616
00:44:45,380 --> 00:44:47,620
meaning it's information goes to the data,

617
00:44:47,620 --> 00:44:54,040
but it doesn't go back to the camera and again you'll see you'll see videos on

618
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:59,000
YouTube that'll say I hacked a flat camera and then there's like millions of

619
00:44:59,000 --> 00:44:59,920
views for one video

620
00:45:00,180 --> 00:45:29,780
That says, let us show you how we hacked a camera, and it was like three, three, four years ago or whatever. And it would appear to look at it as, yeah, they were able to hack the camera, but it was what the camera saw, which was that still limits, right? It's like, usually your eyes could see that. Or traffic management cameras have access to that. No, that said, we'll use Fox safety, but anyone who's eight, eight, ale PR companies, though,

621
00:45:29,780 --> 00:45:35,880
So clearly they went, oh man, our security needs to be better from our camera to our software

622
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,200
and they upgraded the security.

623
00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:42,900
And again, I would just say to anybody, is that we hear about, we know about data hats.

624
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:50,320
Your city, you train all your employees ruthlessly to not open phishing emails and all this stuff

625
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,820
because you're terrified of some sort of hack that gets into water systems or whatever

626
00:45:54,820 --> 00:45:55,240
it is.

627
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,760
But you don't say we're going to get rid of all software related to our water systems

628
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,040
because it was hacked once.

629
00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:05,760
What you do is you learn from the hack, you toughen up your systems, you train all your

630
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:12,260
employees that are not vulnerable to those classes or vulnerable to have incidents happen and

631
00:46:12,260 --> 00:46:13,560
then they don't happen.

632
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,120
And then just for your record, if you haven't looked already, if you want to see who uses

633
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:24,180
license plate readers, the BCA, maintains a website, you can click on it and see where all

634
00:46:24,180 --> 00:46:30,160
cameras are at. If you want to see specific locations of where cameras are

635
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:35,600
nationwide, dfloc.org. You can see it. You haven't been there. It's worth. It's

636
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:40,640
amazing to go there, I guess, and see what it all means. But like you have eight

637
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,100
cameras, I don't think County Sheriff's Office operates eight cameras, and I just

638
00:46:44,100 --> 00:46:49,740
put it, put this as a slide to show you where they are. They're sort of, they're

639
00:46:49,740 --> 00:46:58,040
random. They do catch things that happen. But again, I put it in, I did this in the context

640
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:03,980
of, like, let's say, and actually the way it phrases, Mary will say, I wanted to, I wanted

641
00:47:03,980 --> 00:47:09,280
to stop. Right. I'm, I'm a staff like he rides so bad, he just got some bones, I'm going to

642
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:17,640
stalk him. And as soon as I type in his vehicle searcher license plate in the ALPR database

643
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:28,080
I'm subject to be fired, I am, and under Minnesota law, it's not a recall election, it's my license, my peace officer license will be taken from me on the next cop.

644
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:44,440
I'm going to be fired, and I'm going to go to jail, and it's possible that I'm so angry, that boy, I'm going to follow through, but even if I did that, and I say to people I'll take, even if I did that, what data am I going to get on you?

645
00:47:45,460 --> 00:47:51,940
that you drove on Bunker Lake Boulevard Westbound last Tuesday at six o'clock in the afternoon.

646
00:47:52,180 --> 00:47:56,860
What does it mean? Again, it's sort of the, I just try to highlight for people just like

647
00:47:56,860 --> 00:48:03,440
it's day to day use. It's an, I apologize for the children's reference, but I kind of refer

648
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,780
to it as, where's Waldo? In that, you know, you're looking for Waldo, the ALP here looks for Waldo,

649
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,660
but in reality, the rest of us are just the background noise. We're the other people that are in the

650
00:48:12,660 --> 00:48:15,800
well, where's Waldo, Cartoon, photo?

651
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,160
And the answer is unless somebody's looking for somebody

652
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,220
in particular, you're not noticed.

653
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,760
And I hope nobody's offended that if you want to be paid

654
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,740
attention to in that regard, but you know what I'm saying.

655
00:48:31,140 --> 00:48:35,260
And even if I were to stock, the audit will catch me.

656
00:48:35,460 --> 00:48:36,620
I'll get fired and I go to jail.

657
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,880
And for all to have, for the sole purpose

658
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,400
of knowing that on this date at this time,

659
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,960
the car owned by Ryan went that certain direction.

660
00:48:47,340 --> 00:48:51,220
And again, it just, again, this feels a lot to me

661
00:48:51,220 --> 00:48:53,120
like the babies he had thrown out with an app

662
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:54,840
letter for these places that he's choosing

663
00:48:55,460 --> 00:48:56,800
to ditch their cameras.

664
00:48:57,820 --> 00:48:59,880
And I'll just highlight if Minnesota has among the

665
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:01,660
strilings of privacy laws in the nation.

666
00:49:02,260 --> 00:49:05,220
Our laws are comparable to California and California.

667
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:07,740
It has, in many ways, embraced the technology.

668
00:49:07,740 --> 00:49:14,960
they're going through some issues too and it was San Francisco the city that two

669
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:22,800
years ago was a laughing stock for their crime where I for many many many anecdotes

670
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,380
if you want to San Francisco's rented a car they have a sign in there that

671
00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:30,520
tells you when you rent a car don't leave any of your personal possessions in

672
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,620
this car it will get stolen where they're having the organized retail vuffs

673
00:49:34,620 --> 00:49:37,060
where smash and grabs and all this stuff.

674
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,920
San Francisco fully embraced flock safety, the brand,

675
00:49:41,660 --> 00:49:44,480
for joining us as a response, and for ALPRs,

676
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,560
animated dramatic difference you can look at yourself.

677
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,960
Where they ran into trouble was, is that somebody

678
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,620
was able to figure out an immigration search

679
00:49:55,450 --> 00:49:58,700
that came up on their audit, and the term immigration popped

680
00:49:58,700 --> 00:50:00,880
up an audit for ALPR data.

681
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,640
And again, some human being made the mistake.

682
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:08,700
It wasn't the machine that made the state, but some human made the state.

683
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:17,560
All right, we're not just finished then here with, again, this privacy debate for people is that, you know, sort of my canary in the coal mine

684
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:24,340
and you've probably gone into CBS pharmacies or pharmacy where, you know, you're in bad neighborhood when the store is locked up.

685
00:50:24,700 --> 00:50:27,480
But the store itself has every shelf that's locked up.

686
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:29,400
And products are behind the lock.

687
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:35,420
thing and you gotta go find an employee to unlock. Unlock a cabinet before you to get an item.

688
00:50:36,380 --> 00:50:42,960
CVS solution to that is their testing is that they're an app so they have

689
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:48,220
automated locks on their stuff within the store in that you would use the

690
00:50:48,220 --> 00:50:52,640
Bluetooth on your phone. You would go on your CVS app, you would put all your

691
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:57,480
private data into the app and then you would use your app to open the cabinet

692
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:02,380
to be able to look at stuff. And again, in the context of privacy, you're like, man,

693
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:07,220
how much privacy are you giving up for the sake of getting? I think that, I don't even know what it is.

694
00:51:07,260 --> 00:51:13,380
Danny Mosch. Danny Mosch in the back. So again, it's stuff that you're voluntarily giving,

695
00:51:13,380 --> 00:51:20,220
they're giving up. And again, it juxtaposed to what an ALPR does. Or, and these are both real photos.

696
00:51:20,220 --> 00:51:40,700
This is California, where beef now has tags on it, anti-thab tags, and it makes me nuts to go to, I'm not picking up on people necessarily, but we don't have to live in places where the stores themselves are fortresses, like, you know, it's unthinkable that 10 years ago that you'd have to find an employee to get you because you needed a drill.

697
00:51:41,260 --> 00:51:47,400
And yet, you know, somehow we're just accepting that that's the way life isn't, it doesn't have to be like that.

698
00:51:47,780 --> 00:51:55,020
And again, Bradweiser opinion, crime rates are dropping in Costa country because it's hard to commit a crime without getting caught.

699
00:51:55,220 --> 00:51:58,200
These days, much harder, you're much more likely to get caught.

700
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:07,640
I would hate to see that every recent place where we deny law enforcement, technology that can make a difference

701
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:14,860
for the sake of some privacy that isn't like, again, in my opinion, real.

702
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:20,480
You know, so my last sentence is, I'll tell you, when I hang up my spurs, what I'm finally

703
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:27,760
done with law and place language in four years or so, four and a half years, I guess, when

704
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,100
I'm choosing a place to live, I'm going to live someplace safe.

705
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:35,160
I swear to you, I'm going to find a lot for whatever town, and it might be my current

706
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:40,520
talent and overwhelming it. But wherever they embrace technology to have this crap,

707
00:52:40,540 --> 00:52:45,620
not be a part of my existence. I'm not living in a community where I go into a pharmacy

708
00:52:45,620 --> 00:52:50,160
and everything is locked up or I go into home depot and I look like a fortress or I got

709
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:57,620
to go past the security guard for everything I do. I want to place that embrace this technology

710
00:52:57,620 --> 00:53:04,060
and I say that to people because I trust the cops. These are good people that have given

711
00:53:04,060 --> 00:53:08,960
even a lot of their personal lives to keep a city secure.

712
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,940
And if they tell me they need a tool, I won't even blank.

713
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,860
I know how the hiring happens, I know how they work,

714
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,480
I know their training, I know the laws that back them up.

715
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,920
And without even hesitating, if the police department

716
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,180
I live in says I need a tool, I'll be, yep, you do.

717
00:53:27,620 --> 00:53:29,320
You say you need a proof of the deal.

718
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,560
All right, that's, I'm sorry if I went long here,

719
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:47,040
but it's important stuff to us questions Michael the cameras are they fixed

720
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:51,980
directionally yes and then the zoom also or there's only one aspect yeah they

721
00:53:51,980 --> 00:53:57,380
don't they just they get a set up and then they're not touching this and so that

722
00:53:57,380 --> 00:54:01,640
That view that you saw a few back, it was a flush cue on the top.

723
00:54:02,100 --> 00:54:05,320
Yeah, I see some, but you know you just changed it yourself.

724
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:07,960
Yeah, yeah.

725
00:54:08,860 --> 00:54:13,480
And that being said, we have PTCs that are going in by block in our parks.

726
00:54:14,220 --> 00:54:20,340
We have three go in the new waterfront splash bed park, and then we have I think six or

727
00:54:20,340 --> 00:54:25,180
eight in the budget for 2020, seven for central Elmcrest in Rivers Bend.

728
00:54:25,180 --> 00:54:27,540
And those are different than these.

729
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,280
They do not do license plate reading.

730
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:34,760
They do Zoom and they do move and they have something called guardian mode where they

731
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:39,440
can, you can set parameters if you wanted to flag the officers after 10 p.m.

732
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:41,420
that there's 20 people in the park who can do that.

733
00:54:44,220 --> 00:54:44,860
Follow up my call.

734
00:54:46,220 --> 00:54:46,360
Good.

735
00:54:46,580 --> 00:54:46,780
Thank you.

736
00:54:47,180 --> 00:54:47,640
Other questions?

737
00:54:49,900 --> 00:54:50,200
Crystal.

738
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:56,540
I recall correctly from your presentation at the local government's meeting, it's a third

739
00:54:56,540 --> 00:55:02,260
party audit? Yes a third party audit is required so that so again we use the

740
00:55:02,260 --> 00:55:08,140
branding block safety has this automated audit rate so like I'm going to use

741
00:55:08,140 --> 00:55:12,080
the wrong term I should have written it down but they have if there's an unusual

742
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:17,300
search or repeated search it'll flag it and again it's just a I mean you can

743
00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:21,820
imagine for for the ownership of block safety it's like oh that's a no-brainer

744
00:55:21,820 --> 00:55:24,940
of a tool it's a good tool so if it's that see something that's an unusual

745
00:55:24,940 --> 00:55:29,560
pattern it'll say you know dear manager you need to take a look at this because

746
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:33,120
this doesn't look right it doesn't need to wait for an audit before you

747
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:37,580
investigate and it's a it's a really good tool but yeah otherwise it's a third

748
00:55:37,580 --> 00:55:40,500
party audit that we're recording out which is the same for our

749
00:55:41,260 --> 00:55:45,720
axon videos. We're going to pair that up with our body cameras we're due for

750
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:50,940
that I'm in the spring so we're going to will be just under our two years that

751
00:55:50,940 --> 00:55:54,340
that actually requires, but we'll be doing the LPR audit

752
00:55:54,340 --> 00:55:56,320
at the same time, the same company, actually.

753
00:55:57,620 --> 00:56:00,280
Are you comfortable sharing the company does that?

754
00:56:01,300 --> 00:56:04,480
Yes, it's sort of the L care member.

755
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:06,200
I can get it for you.

756
00:56:06,300 --> 00:56:07,960
There are a lot of those companies.

757
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,060
It's a little bit lemma, can you give it?

758
00:56:13,420 --> 00:56:15,740
So there's an audit required over two years,

759
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:20,060
but in between that time, if there's something as unusual,

760
00:56:20,060 --> 00:56:21,440
it would notify you.

761
00:56:27,380 --> 00:56:34,000
So, I know that you mentioned that people are maybe concerned that it is tracking speed.

762
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,700
I do think that there's also people more concerned.

763
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:39,680
And this is more like comment.

764
00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:41,740
I don't know if this is, this is nothing to do with you.

765
00:56:41,860 --> 00:56:43,740
You're not the one that would make this decision.

766
00:56:43,900 --> 00:56:49,320
But I've heard people being concerned about it more being like the infrastructure is there for speeding tickets later.

767
00:56:49,860 --> 00:56:52,160
Or for tracking certain things later on.

768
00:56:52,740 --> 00:56:54,920
which, once again, that wouldn't be you.

769
00:56:55,020 --> 00:56:56,240
That'd be like a legislative move,

770
00:56:56,740 --> 00:56:58,660
but just wanted to make that known

771
00:56:58,660 --> 00:57:00,760
that I've heard that people are concerned about that.

772
00:57:01,140 --> 00:57:02,180
That's no doubt true.

773
00:57:02,540 --> 00:57:04,180
Honestly, I've got, like, said 30 years from now,

774
00:57:04,300 --> 00:57:05,980
what technology will be available to shoot?

775
00:57:07,140 --> 00:57:08,080
I have no idea.

776
00:57:08,860 --> 00:57:09,060
Right.

777
00:57:10,100 --> 00:57:13,400
And it's, again, it's the idea that you can say,

778
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,500
we don't want people with brains to think

779
00:57:16,500 --> 00:57:18,960
of this technology, that's not realistic.

780
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,780
The only thing you can do is regulate how that

781
00:57:21,780 --> 00:57:27,400
how those tools are used, that's the only thing you can do because somebody somewhere

782
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:32,120
is busy but you know like an air tag, Apple air tag is great you know you can't just

783
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,060
put it, you can't just tape an air tag to your spouse's card, follow them around because

784
00:57:36,060 --> 00:57:41,280
their phone will trigger that air tag. Well as soon as that became true, there's some company

785
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:45,440
in China that will sell your air tags that won't alert yourself on that air tag as part

786
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:51,480
of it. If somebody will sell you, if it has value and clearly those, they'll market it for

787
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:56,380
the right reason. Oh, keep track of your suitcase without alerting them. You know, the air

788
00:57:56,380 --> 00:58:00,400
boiler employee that he can, you know, know that you're tracking, you know, your Louis

789
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:07,040
de Breton bag or whatever it is. So the law come off as legitimate, but for sure it can

790
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:12,100
be used for various purposes. We're going to be wrestling with this, get used to this,

791
00:58:12,300 --> 00:58:16,880
I guess, this counsel's on getting used to it. He's in this a lot longer. I'm going to be

792
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:18,160
is going to get used to it, too.

793
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:20,660
Because it'll be exactly this.

794
00:58:20,780 --> 00:58:22,720
This technology can prevent this crime

795
00:58:23,180 --> 00:58:24,920
as the trade-off to great, yes or no.

796
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:26,240
And sometimes the answer might be, yeah,

797
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:27,660
the trade-off is to great.

798
00:58:28,060 --> 00:58:30,280
In this case, I don't think the trade-off is too great,

799
00:58:30,500 --> 00:58:32,460
knowing what I know about ALPRs.

800
00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:36,840
But people freaked out over, ring cameras

801
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:38,360
being able to be a network, right?

802
00:58:38,540 --> 00:58:43,260
Like a neighborhood could agree to network their ring cameras

803
00:58:43,260 --> 00:58:45,600
in case their dog got lost, which is a great idea.

804
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,000
But boy, that, you know, talk about creeping people out.

805
00:58:48,140 --> 00:58:50,680
That was a super cool ad if you remember reading them

806
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:51,360
on that last year.

807
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,340
But it creeped people out, but that capability is there already.

808
00:58:56,540 --> 00:59:00,820
10 years ago, when those ring cameras first became part

809
00:59:00,820 --> 00:59:03,500
of the thing, is that when I was in Food and Rampage,

810
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:05,940
we were trying to get people to sign up to give us access

811
00:59:05,940 --> 00:59:08,040
to the ring cameras, not thinking

812
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,440
that there was a big brother feel to it, buy to it.

813
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,780
You know, he said these ALPRs have been around since 2009.

814
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:20,680
nobody ever nobody blinks over them ever that this all came up as a big deal

815
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:26,880
shocked me. Now I didn't see a comment. It's like what do I mean? We've been using this for 17 years. What's the deal?

816
00:59:31,900 --> 00:59:37,900
I and then like for those photos that they're taking off the cars they only are

817
00:59:37,900 --> 00:59:46,040
or something that someone can see once they've put in information requesting, or if it's

818
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,960
triggering a hot list, I'm sorry, not that they're putting in for it, or they're searching

819
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:53,320
for it potentially, but it's not like there's just a camera or like a TV screen in your

820
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:59,840
guys as PD where they're like scrolling through. You can see it. No, you can't. If in order to look, yeah.

821
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:29,240
I have a reason to look, and that's what the audit is. You can't just look for the heck of it. And there is no capability of looking. So, for instance, our system requires a case summer to be added as part of it, of which case summer. You can't not have a case summer in there, it won't look. So it's, it's just one of the ways to restrict it. But you can't just for fun, these look. You know, that said, you can, you can go right now, look at men dot and look at highway time.

822
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:33,520
maybe you guys do the guarantee of your traffic wherever it is your engineering is

823
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:39,480
monitors your min. cam is pretty regularly but that min. footage you know

824
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:43,160
their cameras are good cameras to not match cameras but what their cameras are

825
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:47,180
capable of doing should we we all get new iPhones be only because the camera gets

826
01:00:47,180 --> 01:00:50,880
better right your iPhone 12 and your iPhone 17 are probably no different

827
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:55,300
except for the camera maybe a little more data storage but you what is an

828
01:00:55,300 --> 01:00:57,640
Can I from camera going to be capable of 20 years from now?

829
01:00:58,400 --> 01:00:59,580
Or my ring camera?

830
01:00:59,980 --> 01:01:02,080
Can my ring camera zoom right into my neighbors?

831
01:01:02,420 --> 01:01:04,400
Can I read the newspaper again?

832
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:05,800
Can I read the book that I was using?

833
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:08,160
Well, you know what I'm saying.

834
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:12,260
I don't, it's like the holy grail of some technologies,

835
01:01:12,260 --> 01:01:13,740
how good can the cameras get?

836
01:01:14,940 --> 01:01:17,000
And they, I'm willing to bet that they'll

837
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,000
be shockingly good in a decade from now.

838
01:01:20,220 --> 01:01:23,320
And they'll be able to imagine aerial software,

839
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:30,960
you could do all kinds of stuff. I don't even know what to say. Like, even now, what's the

840
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,260
one that's going to court? The notification law that's in Minnesota that's in court,

841
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:39,840
now that AI can just make up stuff. And I'm sure most of you read news stories nowadays.

842
01:01:40,540 --> 01:01:45,220
You probably, I don't know what your percentage is, but you 50% believe what you read. That's

843
01:01:45,220 --> 01:01:49,980
where I'm at more or less. If I read something, I immediately go, all right, what does the other

844
01:01:49,980 --> 01:01:54,880
side think about this, and then I try, I fact-of-fact check everything. I don't trust, I literally

845
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:55,900
trust almost nothing.

846
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,980
And then when you see something on a hot list, it's still, like,

847
01:02:03,140 --> 01:02:07,540
that's your connecting was that, like, you guys are still the ones that make the decision whether

848
01:02:07,540 --> 01:02:13,580
or not that's actually what the crime is. I'm so glad you said that because, again, because

849
01:02:13,580 --> 01:02:17,140
it was a big deal made of employment incident where there was a quote, a flock of mistakes.

850
01:02:18,540 --> 01:02:23,540
Again, when Brad Weiss started in 1995, if there's a bank robbery and it was a blue Toyota

851
01:02:23,540 --> 01:02:28,280
was involved, you know, like a teller called Screaming, Blue Toyota left the parking lot

852
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:29,080
with a bank robber.

853
01:02:29,660 --> 01:02:33,720
We in law enforcement stopped every blue car, Toyota or not.

854
01:02:34,220 --> 01:02:39,060
That was anywhere in and around that of which 99.9 for some time it was the wrong car.

855
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:40,820
That was routine.

856
01:02:41,140 --> 01:02:45,740
The technology that we have available now, the number of mistakes that we make is dramatically

857
01:02:45,740 --> 01:02:50,480
less than what it would have been in the good old days, a pre-technology.

858
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:56,000
Shoot if it was a Toyota, that was red, and we'd stop that too, just for the sake.

859
01:02:56,260 --> 01:02:58,860
I was not saying this is again to keep all this stuff in contact.

860
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,920
Is it foolproof? No, but the human beings, we train our cops to think.

861
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:10,280
And we train the cops to believe that the ALPR or the technology isn't foolproof.

862
01:03:10,500 --> 01:03:13,680
You've got eyes and brain we expect you to use it, you know,

863
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:17,160
discern the information that you're seeing and figure out if that actually merits a traffic

864
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:18,800
stopper, or is it a suspect of something?

865
01:03:20,420 --> 01:03:24,860
And if you're wrong, you get sued and stuff, and there's accountability all on the

866
01:03:24,860 --> 01:03:25,220
way to this.

867
01:03:28,500 --> 01:03:36,340
The last thing that I had, and this just seemed context that was in Texas this week, and

868
01:03:36,340 --> 01:03:42,360
I talked with a Dallas sport-worth police officer when I was there about plot cameras.

869
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:49,680
So, any opportunity I can to talk to someone about it, and he mentioned that the governor

870
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:58,100
of Texas had banned them, but that they weren't going to support them financially, but in

871
01:03:58,100 --> 01:04:03,480
Dallas and Fort Worth, the Councils there had decided to fund themselves, because they found

872
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:04,080
them valuable.

873
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:29,300
I don't think anybody sits in their living room and goes, boy, I hope they get more

874
01:04:29,300 --> 01:04:38,380
LPRs in the law enforcement agency, but, again, when I just think about how much privacy

875
01:04:38,380 --> 01:04:45,560
people give up for, like I said, for a free copy, by comparison, and just knowing how

876
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:51,820
the tool is used, the value of the tool, to me it just makes sense to use the tool.

877
01:04:52,060 --> 01:04:57,660
And, you know, for now we're doing this as a pilot project, I got beat up over, you know,

878
01:04:57,660 --> 01:05:00,160
how dare I do this pilot project thing.

879
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,460
The only reason it got started as a pilot project

880
01:05:03,940 --> 01:05:07,780
or that was signed off by me a year ago,

881
01:05:08,060 --> 01:05:10,160
when we first started having meetings about this,

882
01:05:10,300 --> 01:05:12,720
we all had AOPRs, we all had drones,

883
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:16,340
and it was G.E. we could coordinate, right?

884
01:05:16,580 --> 01:05:18,440
And because we worked well together

885
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:20,240
and that's not like that in every place.

886
01:05:20,660 --> 01:05:21,700
We're lucky in that regard.

887
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:24,220
And it was, oh, we should collaborate.

888
01:05:24,540 --> 01:05:26,460
And again, a year ago, we had never thought

889
01:05:26,460 --> 01:05:30,440
there's any controversy over any of it. I've never even entered my brain to think that there'd be

890
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:39,980
controversy. Then Metro surge happened and then suddenly these two things got linked and then

891
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:45,160
county commissioners because originally the pilot was going to be a two-year pilot project for

892
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:51,500
250,000 and then county commissioners lined up being all over the place. They didn't know what to

893
01:05:51,500 --> 01:05:57,120
think and I am and again it's not it's no disrespect from them and I know you

894
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:59,400
don't have disrespect for them either because they're trying to read the

895
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:03,200
tea leaves are like man where's the where the citizens at with this it's hard to

896
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:07,100
figure out they're yelling you know this group is yelling and then the polar

897
01:06:07,100 --> 01:06:10,920
opposite are yelling maybe both sides are yelling I hit this right I don't know

898
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:16,380
and it's everybody was just like wondering what to do in any and it was like with

899
01:06:16,380 --> 01:06:21,160
the commission's going back and forth with just this pilot project it was me

900
01:06:21,780 --> 01:06:26,920
saying look I'll take Yuri on a bad political spot there's an election coming up

901
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:33,100
in the fall. I went to Fox Safety and I knew I had $175,000 spending limit

902
01:06:33,100 --> 01:06:37,880
under statute and policy of the number of county and it literally looks like to

903
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:42,280
Fox Safety what can we get for $175 and they go you can have you can have a one-year pilot

904
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:46,720
project and I'm like feel one year and that's what was past the election and then

905
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:50,180
and people can get out of that space.

906
01:06:50,500 --> 01:06:53,620
And again, it's not, you know, I ran for office two

907
01:06:53,620 --> 01:06:56,420
and there were topics that came up when I ran in 2022

908
01:06:56,420 --> 01:06:58,760
where people are trying to pigeonhole me

909
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:00,440
and one thing or another, you know,

910
01:07:00,460 --> 01:07:02,100
like asking me about my stance on abortion

911
01:07:02,100 --> 01:07:04,460
or something crazy like that, you know, for my position.

912
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:07,560
And I'm going, wow, is this cost me those or not?

913
01:07:07,780 --> 01:07:09,620
And I understand the calculus all that.

914
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,380
And it was just, it was no more complicated than saying,

915
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:14,480
I'll just cut these people right there

916
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:15,300
and I need to be a part of this.

917
01:07:15,300 --> 01:07:21,240
we just want the pilot to go and in the end, if the pilot project is successful, then the

918
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:27,480
collaboration will be a county-wide collaboration under something we call a safe county initiative

919
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:32,840
which would be, it would be a literal thing. There'd be no county I'd rather live in.

920
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:41,380
Again, we personally, then a safe county county, you'll want that, that embraces DFR and

921
01:07:41,380 --> 01:07:48,080
OPR's and regional assistance organizations, and that's where we land.

922
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:56,660
But there'll be a lot of conversations between now and then and a lot of agreements that

923
01:07:56,660 --> 01:07:59,840
will need to take place and it won't be for everybody to agree.

924
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:07,460
But Columbia Heights takes their flat cameras off line and then they have 80 rounds shot

925
01:08:07,460 --> 01:08:09,820
off in a parking lot. It starts scaring their residents.

926
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:13,800
And then, you know, you're like

927
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:17,540
the officials, you know, to them. You're like the officials and Columbia Heights. What's

928
01:08:17,540 --> 01:08:21,540
your obligation to your citizens? There's a tool that would really help. In the circumstance,

929
01:08:21,660 --> 01:08:26,920
or he just hoped for the best or what, you know, it puts a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure.

930
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:32,540
It's not easy being city council members these days. I know it was a lot easier. 2011 when I first

931
01:08:37,940 --> 01:08:42,460
I think I've known this participant for a minute, so there are at least programs, right?

932
01:08:42,540 --> 01:08:43,460
You don't actually buy the camera?

933
01:08:44,300 --> 01:08:49,520
Yeah, it's the upgrades will always be an option somewhere down the road.

934
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:59,360
But again, it'll be conversational at that take place because it's no individual agency in a share of included.

935
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:04,420
it can, it's just not possible in Minnesota that sheriff could say, I'm going to give this

936
01:09:04,420 --> 01:09:07,540
new technology, I don't care what the rest of you people think, sure that's not how that

937
01:09:07,540 --> 01:09:12,000
would work for sure, city councils. Well, actually, even the nice part, even for the pilot

938
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:19,820
project to come to fruition, if that poll, you know, post-Bradwise, and it all goes sideways

939
01:09:19,820 --> 01:09:22,500
in city rams, it can save me one hour, and you get out.

940
01:09:24,900 --> 01:09:30,080
And then the data itself, obviously it's stored in their cloud servers, wherever those are stored

941
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:31,540
as soon as it's not used in the US.

942
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:35,380
Yeah, it's all the data, all the data belongs to us.

943
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:40,580
And again, I'm not a, you know, I don't understand the technology.

944
01:09:41,020 --> 01:09:47,960
But again, I'll also say it is this way, is that we use, like in today for all of our police supports,

945
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:52,080
our written under central square software, Axon has evidence.com.

946
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,100
I have no idea how any of that works.

947
01:09:54,740 --> 01:09:58,080
We take it on faith that our data doesn't wind up somewhere,

948
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:00,480
that it's not supposed to be you take it on faith

949
01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:03,200
all the time, you're watered, you know,

950
01:10:03,420 --> 01:10:05,520
it's, you rely on the agreements,

951
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,260
because people want me to have some, they want some,

952
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:09,920
because there's smart people out there

953
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,220
that ask questions and they want technical guarantees

954
01:10:12,700 --> 01:10:16,220
that, that, that flocks safety or any company

955
01:10:16,220 --> 01:10:17,740
doesn't have access to your data.

956
01:10:17,980 --> 01:10:21,940
And you're like, I, I don't know how to even convince you

957
01:10:21,940 --> 01:10:25,680
of that at some point you have to just take it on. I don't know how you're not.

958
01:10:32,350 --> 01:10:38,610
Just for the county side, do you have, and you've obviously already shared a lot of really

959
01:10:38,610 --> 01:10:42,430
wonderful perspectives of cases individually that have been solved because of this, but

960
01:10:42,850 --> 01:10:49,310
do you have any statistics on how many more crimes have been solved because of the use of

961
01:10:49,870 --> 01:10:58,230
No, and I'll say something that we're bad about is that we're we've all been trained to talk all right when you rest somebody

962
01:10:59,690 --> 01:11:05,490
And somebody goes to jail is that you type up or a detective ultimately types up a criminal complaint

963
01:11:05,490 --> 01:11:09,490
That's headed through the attorney's office and then submit it to a court

964
01:11:10,110 --> 01:11:14,690
We always try to write that stuff as vague as possible because we aren't the bad guys to know how we do stuff

965
01:11:14,690 --> 01:11:17,970
Right and it's just our habit. It's the way we're trained

966
01:11:17,970 --> 01:11:27,830
So using an ALPR or drones has always been downplayed in how crimes were solved as it's related to criminal complaint.

967
01:11:29,010 --> 01:11:31,790
And we're just going to have to change the way we go about doing that.

968
01:11:32,130 --> 01:11:43,330
So I'm sure Chief Plumble will tell you, you probably never even heard a story about how an ALPR made the difference in a crime in Ramsey until all this came to fruition.

969
01:11:43,330 --> 01:11:45,230
and then I'll send you a hearing about it all the time.

970
01:11:47,270 --> 01:11:49,210
But, you know, that technology, like said,

971
01:11:49,250 --> 01:11:50,690
has been used for a long time.

972
01:11:51,430 --> 01:11:54,510
It started the first ALPRs where you find stolen cars.

973
01:11:54,870 --> 01:11:57,150
They looked like mailboxes that were mounted on a squad car

974
01:11:57,150 --> 01:11:58,670
and it just dried through parking lots ago.

975
01:11:58,850 --> 01:12:00,850
That car is stolen and you're finding stolen cars.

976
01:12:01,850 --> 01:12:05,170
And nobody, it would be us and law enforcement would say,

977
01:12:05,250 --> 01:12:09,710
I'll be required to recover 47 stolen vehicles in 2010.

978
01:12:10,190 --> 01:12:12,330
We never said if it was because there was

979
01:12:12,330 --> 01:12:17,690
a foot of snow on it or because the ALPR got it. So we said we'd better

980
01:12:17,690 --> 01:12:22,650
about that because I know people want to know. But yeah, the amygdolls are piling up and really, really

981
01:12:22,650 --> 01:12:29,310
significant. It's like right county to set up a homicide that was, or it was a potential homicide

982
01:12:29,310 --> 01:12:35,110
that was an ALPR stopped. They actually prevented a homicide because of an ALPR hot list.

983
01:12:35,950 --> 01:12:41,510
I've also probably made that too narrow because the salt is, I mean there's different ways that we

984
01:12:41,510 --> 01:12:45,790
think that a crime is solved. It doesn't always have to be like there's like actual answer

985
01:12:45,790 --> 01:12:50,950
or conviction or it's you know. Yeah anyways. So I'm sure there's a transparency portal

986
01:12:50,950 --> 01:12:55,290
right that you're working on in that of you. I'm sure the public needs to know if the

987
01:12:55,290 --> 01:13:01,750
success stories. Yeah. They need to know. We've got a couple more minutes. I guess I'll

988
01:13:01,750 --> 01:13:05,410
just say you've got a secondology who's been around for a long time. I used to manage

989
01:13:05,410 --> 01:13:09,370
had a mechanical security. We got approached by many companies that use license plate

990
01:13:09,370 --> 01:13:16,390
play readers and tow trucks to look for repo vehicles and you'd be surprised how much data tow trucks pull when they go through

991
01:13:16,930 --> 01:13:24,030
Vehicle parking lots and they drive down the road and the opposite direction of you are swinging through our grocery stores using

992
01:13:24,650 --> 01:13:25,490
the private

993
01:13:25,490 --> 01:13:28,070
Data gathered by private businesses

994
01:13:28,930 --> 01:13:34,410
I could put in my own license plate and I could see what roads I drive down where apart what grocery stores I go to

995
01:13:34,410 --> 01:13:41,490
The whole pattern of life analysis and the requirement for that software is that you have a physical building and you have a security officer's license.

996
01:13:42,050 --> 01:13:44,230
So it's been around for a long time.

997
01:13:44,910 --> 01:13:55,630
So I think to have that technology in the handle on enforcement is very reasonable since security officers could run that 10 years ago.

998
01:13:57,070 --> 01:14:03,350
personally very conservative very keep the government out of my life but I

999
01:14:03,350 --> 01:14:07,430
also look at this and I say there's a slippery slope argument and that's a

1000
01:14:07,430 --> 01:14:13,250
valid argument but as as you already stated this listens to the

1001
01:14:13,250 --> 01:14:17,670
conversations I have with my wife before I go to bed this tells the

1002
01:14:17,670 --> 01:14:21,850
governments if they want to if they have the ability to do secret

1003
01:14:21,850 --> 01:14:24,430
It fires a warrants, and I don't get to know about it.

1004
01:14:24,510 --> 01:14:25,570
They're stalking me.

1005
01:14:25,750 --> 01:14:28,510
This will tell them a hundred times more

1006
01:14:28,510 --> 01:14:31,730
than a stationery or even a PTC plot camera will go.

1007
01:14:31,950 --> 01:14:35,790
So, personally, for the council, if you want

1008
01:14:35,790 --> 01:14:38,950
to know where I stand, any citizen that demands

1009
01:14:38,950 --> 01:14:43,530
that we remove ELPRs, I will frequently agree with them

1010
01:14:43,530 --> 01:14:46,150
as soon as we remove every bit of technology

1011
01:14:46,150 --> 01:14:47,950
that does the same thing.

1012
01:14:48,210 --> 01:14:50,390
So, when the person posts on Facebook

1013
01:14:50,390 --> 01:14:55,390
look that the flock cameras need to come down. My first question is, you're okay, carrying

1014
01:14:55,390 --> 01:14:59,610
advice that tracks your location and tells you how fast you're walking that knows what

1015
01:14:59,610 --> 01:14:59,970
room and

1016
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:29,840
House you're sitting at. And yet, when we have a device that law enforcement can use to find missing children or stolen cars, that's where we put up the fight. I think it's low hanging fruit. I think it's lazy by residents. And this is somebody who will say this to both sides and somebody who would say on one hand, I'm very conservative. I think the government can say on a personal matters. But if I'm going to be completely consistent, if I take that stand strong, I'm the biggest hypocrite of all.

1017
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:32,500
because I care to acknowledge my pocket every day.

1018
01:15:32,580 --> 01:15:34,300
That takes away my rights and I agree to it.

1019
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:38,260
You don't have a reasonable right to privacy

1020
01:15:38,260 --> 01:15:40,720
in a public area as well.

1021
01:15:40,980 --> 01:15:42,160
That's why we end the cameras everywhere.

1022
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:48,220
And I mean, as the sheriff said, technology is so crazy.

1023
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:50,920
I mean, if you want to look at open source news,

1024
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:54,080
they found the downpiled in Iran through a heartbeat sensor

1025
01:15:54,700 --> 01:15:55,300
from space.

1026
01:15:56,380 --> 01:16:00,380
you are a router at your house and three to map your entire house and see what we're

1027
01:16:00,380 --> 01:16:06,720
moving into. It's all open source, you can check it out. So for me, I would be a

1028
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:13,380
million posts of block cameras if we started with the things that mattered most

1029
01:16:13,380 --> 01:16:18,160
and then it's slowing me through for me. So I'll understand that the apprehension to

1030
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,380
and I appreciate where it's coming from for many residents.

1031
01:16:21,980 --> 01:16:30,180
I just, I don't know if I can swallow a missing child getting out of the county while

1032
01:16:30,180 --> 01:16:35,420
carrying a self on my pocket and say he ate from freedom and liberty, but I'm contributing

1033
01:16:35,420 --> 01:16:40,200
to surveillance myself, so that's where I'm at.

1034
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:47,400
That's more mistaken than a question, but I think you did a great job of presenting, and I

1035
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:48,660
I think there might be more of these statements

1036
01:16:48,660 --> 01:16:50,920
tonight if there are citizens within the point.

1037
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:53,480
So just wanted to be some perspective for that.

1038
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:55,300
And Chief, these are time for me to have a couple things.

1039
01:16:55,740 --> 01:16:55,860
Yeah.

1040
01:16:56,540 --> 01:16:56,740
OK.

1041
01:16:58,040 --> 01:16:58,760
Just from Brown.

1042
01:16:58,880 --> 01:16:59,400
Just locally.

1043
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:01,020
And he did a great job.

1044
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:05,960
I just want to touch on trust in that it's not mind trust.

1045
01:17:06,100 --> 01:17:09,620
We take your trust very seriously as you can tell

1046
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:13,140
by how we try to be seen as humans, given the community.

1047
01:17:13,140 --> 01:17:23,520
But right now, for our whole careers, when we go to an alarm at someone's home, and we find a door open, we walk through the entire house.

1048
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:25,980
And that was before body cameras.

1049
01:17:26,660 --> 01:17:31,760
And so we really need to trust us and we realize that.

1050
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:38,500
And the second part is, I think we often talk about big cases, and it is fun to talk about big cases.

1051
01:17:38,500 --> 01:17:41,640
because we just had another successful incident with a

1052
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:44,060
burglary suspect coming out of a river in the Ramsey

1053
01:17:44,060 --> 01:17:47,660
and they were able to help us, who knows where they're going,

1054
01:17:47,860 --> 01:17:48,900
but they came off highway 10.

1055
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:52,780
So, they came off the main roads into our city.

1056
01:17:52,980 --> 01:17:55,780
So that's a good win, but I don't think we should overlook

1057
01:17:56,540 --> 01:18:00,640
the single person who has a hit and run happened to them.

1058
01:18:01,460 --> 01:18:03,780
You know, it might not be a cool story to tell,

1059
01:18:03,860 --> 01:18:04,700
but that's still a victim.

1060
01:18:04,700 --> 01:18:13,580
And we have searches where we're able to track that or find that vehicle using health care technology.

1061
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:16,660
And then also I have to have some local information for you guys.

1062
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:19,140
City stuff specific. I'm going to go real quick.

1063
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:27,760
But since January 1st with our license plate readers, the 8 of them, we've searched 1,012 vehicles.

1064
01:18:28,580 --> 01:18:33,220
I might seem like a lot of that goes down to about 28 searches per week.

1065
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:38,940
So, when you have two-to-large shifts, four-rish off-serves,

1066
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:43,140
95 per shift, just to not much reason it.

1067
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:44,380
And a search is not a case.

1068
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,880
For example, we recently had an officer do 13 searches,

1069
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:50,740
trying to find a hit-run suspect vehicle,

1070
01:18:51,100 --> 01:18:52,780
knew the vehicle description, didn't have a plate.

1071
01:18:53,420 --> 01:18:56,080
And when he come back from his day off, he tried to check again,

1072
01:18:56,180 --> 01:18:58,400
just see if he could help this victim and have a meet.

1073
01:18:58,900 --> 01:19:00,160
So, searches aren't cases.

1074
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:03,140
is they're just the number of times it's queried.

1075
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:08,180
And I have a lot more I can go into, but I'll keep it at that

1076
01:19:08,180 --> 01:19:13,100
because you know, anything else until we're

1077
01:19:13,100 --> 01:19:14,760
going to recess for the next two items,

1078
01:19:15,700 --> 01:19:18,780
pretty short, minus the presentation is pretty short.

1079
01:19:19,500 --> 01:19:21,720
Council meeting, so we'll have back here for this.

1080
01:19:22,620 --> 01:19:26,580
There is kind of just more policy guidance.

1081
01:19:26,580 --> 01:19:30,860
Is this something where we're good, supporting, moving forward?

1082
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:32,620
Cameras are going to stay in town.

1083
01:19:33,420 --> 01:19:35,340
We feel as the county starts to implement them.

1084
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:38,520
Is that something where we look to add more or move around?

1085
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:43,300
The ones we have things in that nature, or is this something where we want more discussion

1086
01:19:43,300 --> 01:19:44,040
on it?

1087
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:50,520
Not necessarily encouraging it, but it is an option to do maybe a standalone open house.

1088
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:52,700
More questions and answers with the public.

1089
01:19:52,700 --> 01:19:55,760
but generally what I've heard from colleagues

1090
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:59,860
is it's relatively unproductive, very lengthy,

1091
01:20:00,340 --> 01:20:04,280
but I guess looking for kind of our next step.

1092
01:20:04,540 --> 01:20:05,840
So I think tonight was great for

1093
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:07,280
talk to me for question and answer

1094
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:08,860
and understand the program as a whole.

1095
01:20:12,260 --> 01:20:13,660
I would, oh, Christopher.

1096
01:20:15,300 --> 01:20:18,640
I was just gonna say I think the equation to present it,

1097
01:20:18,700 --> 01:20:20,200
I don't mean we're gonna be back as a case

1098
01:20:23,440 --> 01:20:38,300
I don't think we're in a place yet to get the direction one or the other, but I think the information's good, and we have more information now to bring to the table for a future discussion. Chris, I don't think an open house would be productive.

1099
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:46,160
And I would give chief role in my support that if he supports it, it's important to our city and it's important to me.

1100
01:20:51,660 --> 01:20:57,100
I second would come to my Riley says but I also think it's for transparency state and

1101
01:20:57,100 --> 01:20:59,720
that our citizens are interested in having an open house.

1102
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:04,400
I think it's important that people can come out and share their feelings and ask questions

1103
01:21:04,980 --> 01:21:09,920
and that can be a part of our decision, but I think we all maybe have, I don't think we

1104
01:21:09,920 --> 01:21:14,480
all but from what I'm gathering, maybe have similar feelings to what come to my Riley

1105
01:21:14,480 --> 01:21:18,700
that's just stated, that's supporting the chief level, I'm sure it's nice.

1106
01:21:18,700 --> 01:21:26,080
All right, well, are we going to put a back on a council session of summarizing how we feel and then everybody can take a couple of weeks to think about it.

1107
01:21:29,500 --> 01:21:35,720
Maybe just if there's a few of you that want to, you know, we can play and move forward unless we hear otherwise.

1108
01:21:36,700 --> 01:21:41,080
We'll monitor public input and if we're hearing stuff we can bring it back to.

1109
01:21:41,660 --> 01:21:45,920
I think there's just no change at this time. We'll discuss whether we want change.

1110
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:53,980
All right, with that, we'll go ahead and recess until after the City Council meeting,

1111
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:00,660
the

1112
01:22:00,660 --> 01:22:00,920
Thank you.