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Okay. Good morning. It's Wednesday, January 22nd, and I will call a regular board of county commissioners meeting to order. Chris, will you do roll call please? Commissioner Holes. Here. Commissioner Chokot. Here. Commissioner Burrows. I'm here.

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Jeff, will you do this today? I would like to leave this to the flag of the United States of America and to the public for which it stands one nation under

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with liberty and justice for all.

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Thank you, Jeff.

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Public comment for those participating by a grant.

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You may call 406-375-6513 in order to provide your public comment.

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And the first item on our agenda is the review and

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a possible approval of the HRC home program for the fourth quarter report.

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report. Mr. Chairman, move to approve the quarterly report for the HRC home program as

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presented. Second. It has been moved and seconded to approve the HRC home report as presented.

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Is there any public comment on that motion? Is there any further discussion? Call for

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the question, Greg. Right. Jeff. Aye. And I vote aye as well. And the next item on our

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agenda is a public hearing to request the increase of recording feeds for the airport

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lease for that start and that start for 10 o'clock and so we'll pause until then.

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We will just reconvene right now to have a discussion and possible decision regarding the

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increase for the Ravelli County airport leases.

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for the record, subject

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matter pardon me.

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The legal ad was placed in the newspaper record in

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print in January 8th of 25th and January 15th of 25th.

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Mr. Chairman, move to approve resolution 4691,

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increasing the recording fees at the airport for

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report leases from $110 to $120 per lease.

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Second.

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Thank you, it's been moved and seconded to approve resolution 4691.

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It's a recording fee increase for re-bally county airport leases from $110 to $120.

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Is there any public comment on that motion?

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Is there any further discussion?

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Call for the question, Jeff.

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Aye.

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And Greg.

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Aye.

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and I vote aye as well. Thank you.

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So now we can pause till 10 30. Okay.

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Okay. Good morning

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all. We will reconvene with public hearing on Septage Treatment and Composting

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preliminary engineering report for the Morrison and Knight Marley. Welcome. We are

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also on Zoom right now. So we've got people online. Just doing my check. We've got

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some online, like John, can you hear us? Palacio or

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Lynn?

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Those folks online, can you hear us?

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I think it's because we're not weak.

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I can hear you, Brian. Oh, there's Mike. Okay, I turn

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the volume up. All right, I think I can hear you. All right. Good. All right, very good.

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Can you guys hear me? Okay, Cooper. Yes, we can. Thank you, Cooper.

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awesome.

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Welcome.

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Just a quick

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thing if you haven't the red. That's

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on the red zone. Please do sign in if

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you haven't signed in and then if we

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can just capture those that are

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online as well for attendance. I'll

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be appreciated. You can assure my

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screen.

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So we're here today for the

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Rivalda County Septus Treatment and

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Compost Facility Plumar Engineers

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Report. This is public meeting number

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one. And I'm sharing my screen now so hopefully everybody can see that. If you need to kind of

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scoot your own, most of the stuff we're going to do is going to be based around this. It's a

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public link so it can be shared out. I can grab everybody's sign-in stuff and distribute this to you

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as well or give you a PDF of the printout. The PDF of the printout, just the program we're using,

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it's a little bit fragment to be honest with it. The images and reference stuff isn't quite as good.

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as re's online version. So if you're able to navigate the web link and use that it's probably a

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little bit better data source.

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So, um, introduction quick. I'm Aaron McCollock with Morse Merle. I'm

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the project manager for this project. Cooper Lynn is also joining online. He's been helping

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doing a lot of the narrative writing, population analysis and then we'll continue on doing a lot of the

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work for the alternative analysis in support of Ben Watson and then Rico Lashley that will

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really step into the next phases.

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So, I'm going to go through real quick background, how we got here.

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The county was awarded some planning grant funds to look at, septage holistically in

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the county, historically there's been issues noted really over the last decade but I think

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reality is this has been in people's minds from for more than that the current

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situation for Valley County is the majority of septage from septic tank

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pumping is land applied in a couple of spots and it's led to some new

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senses some health concerns the other outlets been Mozilla County that was

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restricted recently due to some maintenance projects and long-term they've

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expressed interest to really restrict that moving forward.

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So public hearing number one, there are going to be three public hearings total for this

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project.

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Public hearing number one is really to discuss the planning process and then the background

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data and establish the community's concepts and needs for a project.

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Public meeting number two would be exploring alternatives for treatment and public meeting

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number three is taking input from the public along with those alternatives, providing

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a ranking system and selecting a recommended path move for it in a project.

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So just kind of a quick recap of what the preliminary engineering process is.

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It assesses current situation.

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So we're looking at the planning area, which is the county, we'll get into that a little

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bit more.

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The current and existing facilities and systems that are used by county residents, performance

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of existing systems, and the capacity of those systems moving ahead.

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We also assess the future situation, so we do population projections, look at how many

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septic systems could be reliant on septic pumping in Rivali County in the future, establish

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a planning period, and then as I noted, we look at development of alternatives and evaluation

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models of alternatives.

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That's the next step after this meeting.

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We'll be doing that for the next couple of months, and then development implementation plan,

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which is really March and April of this year.

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The PER preliminary engineering process is useful for a couple of different things.

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One is established as a holistic look at what the issues are, provides public opportunity

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to comment on those items that are perceived as issues or bring up other issues that may

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be present, reviews action items, no action items, for improvement alternatives.

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It also establishes an implementation strategy.

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It develops operation of maintenance criteria that can be used moving forward with any projects

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that come out of this, and it's also useful for state federal funding applications for

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grants and low interest loans.

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As we go through the remainder of this, if anybody has questions, feel free to just step forward

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and ask as we're going, if not, we'll definitely ask questions at the end and can scroll back.

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So if something catches your mind you want to talk about it as we're going through feel free to interrupt and interject and we'll try to address it as we're going. If not, we'll address anything at the end.

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If anybody does want to ask a question, please come to the microphone at the podium and we'll recognize you and we can go forward. Thank you.

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Thank you.

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So real quick, I'll start off here and then Logan or excuse me Cooper's going to kind of take over here in a second, but the first thing that we want to establish is planning area.

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currently planning area would encompass all of our Valley County minus the municipal or publicly served

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sewer areas. So we've got Darby Hamilton, Corvallis, Victor and Steven'sville. I'll have public

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wastewater treatment systems with discharge permits. The remainder of the county is rural and is served

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by their community or individual septic systems.

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So currently there's approximately 13,328 septic systems

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known.

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More recent trends are about 3,000 these have been added

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since 2000.

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Those are the systems with probably better records.

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Population of Revali County is dispersed between,

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like I said, county and then municipal slash public served.

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It approximately a 4-to-1 ratio of the current population in the county.

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The largest municipal system is Hamilton with about 5,400 people, and then, well, real quick,

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I guess just, as a county as a whole, just social economics right now, once we get into

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more refined areas where improvements may be warranted, we will revise the social economics

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much more of neighborhoods, but as a county, 28% of the county is considered low to moderate

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income with a per capita income of approximately 38,500. So Cooper, if you want to kind of take

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over now and talk about the two different ways we looked at population and the overall trends.

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Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Aaron. Can you guys still hear me? Okay.

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Yes. We can. Awesome. Yeah. Feel free to, like Aaron mentioned before, feel free to hop in,

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and ask any questions, and we'll do our best to respond.

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So yeah, here on the left,

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we can see the population in Ravalli County,

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shooting all the way back to the late 1960s,

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and some notable periods are the clear accelerated growth

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rates that we see in both the 1990s

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and the gate, again later on in the latter half of the 2010s.

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But looking at the current state of the county,

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we see a population of just under 50,000 people,

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And we estimated that about 20% of that number to be living within the major municipal

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sewer districts that Aaron just mentioned before, like Stevensville, Hamilton, Darby,

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all those places.

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Yeah, so furthermore, when looking at future projections, we're going to be looking at

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like a larger scale on the scale of like decades moving forward and also on a smaller scale

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that will discuss a little bit.

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But yeah, we've decided on a few options for population growth with low average and rapid

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growth variations all being viable.

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We can see that there on the right, that 0.92% for the low growth, the 1.9% for the average,

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and the 3.6% for the rapid growth, in which much slide down for me there, Aaron.

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Yeah, so I mentioned before that we'll look at a kind of a more narrow scale.

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So, when we narrow down to the last 15 years or so, starting around 2010, we get a better

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look at the more recent trends in population growth in Ravalli County.

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During this time, we've seen quite a variety in average yearly growth from as low as 0.1%

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there in 2014.

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You can see on the chart on the left, climbing to just under 2% at the crest of the decade

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at 2020.

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Similar to before, we have delineated a couple growth projections using low average and

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rapid growth possibilities as shown here on the right of that 0.1%, 95% and that rapid

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growth of 1.72%. But overall growth in the most recent decade is historically been a

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bit low compared to what we've seen as we shoot back to the 1960s up to the end of the

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millennia at around 2000. There could be a number of possibilities for this but a notable

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stagnation of growth following the 2008 recession corresponding housing bubble likely contributed to that being low around that period pretty heavily compared to other things.

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But when we look past that anomaly the latter half of the decade from, you know, 2014, 2015 to 2020 seems to be a bit more in line with historical averages.

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as we look at future projections, we can take what we've learned and start projecting out.

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As mentioned before, the 2010s pretty closely reflect that recurring pattern that we see

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in the past of booming economic growth followed by corresponding housing slump.

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So we have decided that we need to look at a longer time scale to more accurately predict

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long-term growth. Other variables such as legislative actions, notably relating to water rights,

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likely have a significant impact on rural growth in particular as they seem to affect them

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more than folks within the municipal sewer districts. And this will tend to drive population growth

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and sewer communities.

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As opposed to those outside, the pre-described boundaries. And you can see on the chart here, we have some rapid average and slow growth projections pushed out for the next 20 years or so. Just to add there, what is standard used in engineering planning documents is a 20 year planning period. Provides realistic growth, you can kind of put brackets around economic trends, industrial trends or growth trends

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that are realistic. Going out beyond that 20-year period, you get into quite a bit of uncertainty,

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so really what we're proposing to use is just a 20-year planning period for this project as well.

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We'll look at potential and scalability of any solutions beyond that, but really the immediate

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improvements that could come out of this are looking at deficiencies in the existing systems are

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are going to be bracketed within that current situation

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to the 20 years out.

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So we went through just kind of bracketed every five years

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to show what it looks like and what we're proposing

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is using the average of that 50 year period, which

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is the 1.91%.

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And you can see where we're going from the 48,300 currently

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to just shy of 72,000 by the year 2045.

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It's pretty important to kind of come to consensus on this, that this makes sense to

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the community.

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It's not a rigid, this is what's going to happen, but we really, really do want to make

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sure that we're providing realistic solutions.

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And this,

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it evens out the housing boom that Western Montana has seen for the last 50 years,

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is what we're going with.

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It's not going to catch the rapid growth that we might have seen in the last two years,

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but it's going to take into account, you know, the recessions that might come, periods of 4% growth when we're followed by periods of half percent or last growth for two to three years.

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I think questions on that are...

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I'm Roger DeHon.

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Was there any attempt to separate the growth between sewered areas and unsurred areas?

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It seems like just, you know, from my personal observation, it seems like there's been many more subdivisions lately that have been trying to get into the towns rather than out in the county.

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It is something we have not dove into that great detail yet. It is something we chatted about.

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And I think it's worse. It warrants a spot check to make sure that is consistent on some other communities.

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I think we've seen similar for sewer communities in the past that one and a half to two percent

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growth in Raleigh County hasn't been drastically different.

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The things that are really out there that are hard to predict that will impact the future

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is over the last couple of legislative cycles, there has been a constant pressure on getting

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a better handle under the exempt water rights and the water rights as a whole for rural communities.

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and what that could do for either a lot of size restrictions, what are its

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process, or just pushing more affordable development to municipal boundaries.

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It's hard to get our hands around honestly, not knowing what the legislature

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really going to do, there's some draft legislatures out there that we've talked

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about and reviewed, but we chose not to, I guess, skew history with those

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future pending pending things at this time. There was warrants in the noting.

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What is clear is what is clear is we're going to see a shift from rural development more

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towards those municipalities because that I mean it it's a fact that you are deep that exempt

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water right you decrease your ability to do large scale subdivisions in the county so you're not

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going to see an 80 or 100 lot subdivision the way it stands now. So I think that number

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is fine. You probably will see maybe not historically, but I think you will see that growth

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rate in the county decrease a little bit and the municipalities increase. So I think

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00:19:23,290 --> 00:19:29,440
1.9 using averages. I think it's a conservative estimate. If anything, I think it gives us a

222
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,460
a little bit of, it may even be a little bit high using that average growth, I think, but.

223
00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:40,660
Well, the other thing that's hard to predict is that legislative slash sessions over the next 20 years,

224
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,180
every two years we're going to be facing that.

225
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,720
Not even the legislature is ultimately a judge.

226
00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:50,860
If it's kind of decided, there you go, too, not necessarily a legislature can do what they want,

227
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,100
but it's the judges that are overturned and making these decisions that are affecting us.

228
00:19:55,940 --> 00:20:00,100
Yes, yeah, Jim Rommel, I just want to go back.

229
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:06,700
Florence doesn't have a, well that's one of the largest communities in the county,

230
00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:08,080
isn't it?

231
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:13,620
Isn't it bigger than Corvallis, so they don't, they don't, they don't have a

232
00:20:13,620 --> 00:20:14,080
source system.

233
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:15,420
They voted against it.

234
00:20:15,660 --> 00:20:16,300
Yeah, they voted against it.

235
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,300
What's the data source for these population numbers and the trends?

236
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,560
Is that, are we in census data?

237
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:24,920
Yeah.

238
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:33,420
Yeah, so it's, no, it's census data from, sorry, I've got it noted, I've got to put note

239
00:20:33,420 --> 00:20:40,240
it in the chapter. It's through the funding agencies recommend using a link through the

240
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:45,860
Department of Commerce. So it's, it's US housing data, census data. It's not septic. On this

241
00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:51,180
next slide, there's a kind of a gut check. And I think that's something we need to explore

242
00:20:51,180 --> 00:20:53,440
or a little bit more John on the number of septic permits

243
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,480
historically and where that fits in.

244
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,420
But yeah, it's not under housing permits

245
00:20:58,420 --> 00:21:00,000
or septic permits in our valley county.

246
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:01,040
It's based on population.

247
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,640
I mean, at least anecdotally,

248
00:21:04,740 --> 00:21:08,520
I think we are exceed what the census data has out there.

249
00:21:12,930 --> 00:21:15,450
You know, the cost of proving that up is really

250
00:21:27,130 --> 00:21:27,450
with that.

251
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:31,930
I think that the census occurred during COVID

252
00:21:31,930 --> 00:21:36,250
and they didn't do canvassing as they normally do.

253
00:21:36,250 --> 00:21:37,350
and so we're

254
00:21:39,980 --> 00:21:42,120
relatively sure that our numbers are low.

255
00:21:44,260 --> 00:21:48,120
And then, you know, when we looked at incrementally,

256
00:21:48,460 --> 00:21:50,420
every two years there's the data sets

257
00:21:50,420 --> 00:21:52,580
and that was cut off in 2020.

258
00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:56,360
So it missed the COVID spike at the end of this

259
00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:59,180
where I think the county had over 500 septic permits

260
00:21:59,180 --> 00:22:01,600
in one year that far exceeded

261
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:02,820
I think what the average has been.

262
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,820
So I think if you shifted this 10 year increment

263
00:22:05,820 --> 00:22:08,340
that we looked at that showed the average growth

264
00:22:08,340 --> 00:22:14,560
less than the average oath over the 50-year period, you're probably closer to

265
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,740
average because it's going to take the last couple years of the housing recession

266
00:22:17,740 --> 00:22:22,680
plus than the COVID spike where everybody was moving out of metropolitan areas

267
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,660
to more rural communities, rural settings, I think that's prevalent everywhere in

268
00:22:26,660 --> 00:22:31,580
the West, honestly, saw that. Probably under sampling, it wasn't captured adequately.

269
00:22:32,020 --> 00:22:32,260
But

270
00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:44,100
even with that, you're still hitting that average, which does show that

271
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,500
So the next thing here is just looking at growth forecasts and then here's where we're starting

272
00:22:54,500 --> 00:23:00,700
to look more at what the impacts are to septage, we're taking growth in a population and

273
00:23:01,380 --> 00:23:08,720
figuring out how many septic systems there would be, so like I said, we took the municipal

274
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:14,600
possibly serve population centers out of the 49-ish thousand, and we'll end up with

275
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:21,580
about 37-300 people on septic systems in Ravelli County with the current number

276
00:23:21,580 --> 00:23:28,540
of septic systems of 13-thousand three hundred and so that puts the average per

277
00:23:28,540 --> 00:23:34,080
capita is about 2.8 persons per septic system. Might be a little bit high compared

278
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:39,200
to housing statistics. We didn't filter out the number of commercial systems that are in there,

279
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:45,980
and then the other thing that might skew that a little bit is on community septic systems where

280
00:23:45,980 --> 00:23:51,860
there's multiple housing units attached to one septic permit. If that's being counted as one septic

281
00:23:51,860 --> 00:23:56,920
system, it's going to skew. So there's going to be some community subdivisions that you might have 20 or

282
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:03,260
30 homes on one permit, but as a whole, it kind of gets filtered out. I don't think it's enough to

283
00:24:03,260 --> 00:24:09,200
really dive in and change this number, but the 2.8 person's perceptic system is essentially

284
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:16,760
how we got from 13,000 septic systems currently to at the end of the planning period, just

285
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,800
shy of 20,000 septic systems.

286
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,000
And then as a spot check.

287
00:24:21,180 --> 00:24:27,880
Well, the question on that, though, the 13,328 is the number of permits on file at environmental

288
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:28,300
health?

289
00:24:28,540 --> 00:24:28,820
Yes.

290
00:24:28,820 --> 00:24:39,200
So we have a lot of houses pre-permitting that are out there that the don't how are you taking it that it because I mean that started in

291
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:48,580
1980-ish anything before that's grandfather then doesn't have a septic permits sitting there who knows I mean that could be plus or minus

292
00:24:48,580 --> 00:24:51,480
We have a lot of houses that were built pre-80

293
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:58,240
That I think that number could be significantly short of what we have

294
00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:08,800
I mean, I would say to the tuna, I don't know, I don't know, I don't think double would be it, but I would say to the tuna 25%.

295
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,400
Let me significant.

296
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,540
I'll circle back on that and you know these numbers will definitely be updated.

297
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,280
I'll double check, we got the number from John and I'll double check with him.

298
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:25,960
The other thing that we were talked about doing is this GIS exercise filtering out the municipal boundaries

299
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:32,340
And then pull on the tax data for all the every single dwelling within Rebelli County or every single parcel

300
00:25:32,340 --> 00:25:39,040
It has a taxable dwelling on it as a resident and then pulling that to spot check if the 13,000 or 14,000 is accurate

301
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,940
So 10 Miller has a GIS has a GIS has they'll be able to give you a pinpoint of every

302
00:25:43,940 --> 00:25:46,880
Res I think yeah, I think our GIS guy already extracted

303
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,260
I just don't know if he went through the exercise of pulling that number up but

304
00:25:50,260 --> 00:25:57,980
I would assume septic systems include holding tanks as well.

305
00:25:58,420 --> 00:26:06,980
It should be, as a cesspool or pre-drainfield, the other thing that I think the tax numbers

306
00:26:06,980 --> 00:26:09,460
might give a better representation of community systems.

307
00:26:09,860 --> 00:26:17,540
If the pinned is one septic system, if there's 20 dwellings on that cesspool system,

308
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:20,240
it's

309
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,640
The number of people that are not on a municipal sewer system.

310
00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:26,040
What happens when you back out the average.

311
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,340
So what are you assuming third like 37,000?

312
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,300
What's your typical average per household is a close to 2.2?

313
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,840
2.8 per per septic system right now.

314
00:26:36,940 --> 00:26:39,520
That's in a valid camera, but you said that's high.

315
00:26:39,940 --> 00:26:42,820
Historically, it's usually around 2.25 to 2.5.

316
00:26:43,060 --> 00:26:44,900
It really depends on neighborhoods and communities.

317
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,440
So it's, it's a little high.

318
00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:53,520
it's saying that there's more people per house here.

319
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,140
And see, that probably, if you just use that average

320
00:26:56,140 --> 00:26:57,340
into that, it's going to bring it down.

321
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:57,560
It's going to bring it down.

322
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,060
It's going to bring it down closer to 17,000 septic systems

323
00:27:00,060 --> 00:27:04,160
in Ravalli County, verse 13, 328, which is probably,

324
00:27:04,460 --> 00:27:07,780
like an, I would think, is a closer number to what we probably

325
00:27:07,780 --> 00:27:08,820
realistically have.

326
00:27:09,020 --> 00:27:11,620
It actually is 16, 888.

327
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:17,880
If you use that average, average household number of 2.25.

328
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:29,820
So that that and that that's a pretty significant difference 17,000 versus 13,000 so for sure that's probably that's a number

329
00:27:29,820 --> 00:27:35,920
I don't think the census data in the populations were trying to true up the number of systems is definitely

330
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,320
true enough because that's pretty significant.

331
00:27:39,260 --> 00:27:41,000
It's just a point of detail, sir.

332
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:49,040
You included holding tanks, the septic systems, it shouldn't they be separate in some form

333
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:54,320
because they get pumped at a different frequency than a septic system would normally get pumped.

334
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,260
How that would affect that number, that's why I brought it up.

335
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:08,080
It affects the total amount of septage pumps, so it would be a difference if there's a large

336
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,300
value that could skew it.

337
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,660
potentially I guess our pumpers could tell us that of helmet you know the

338
00:28:17,660 --> 00:28:22,140
some of the holding tanks may may get used on a weekend they may not pump it

339
00:28:22,140 --> 00:28:25,300
very often I don't know the concentration you're

340
00:28:38,620 --> 00:28:40,360
talking about the B.O.D.M.

341
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:45,220
that's yes it's gonna be a different car not accurate if I may yeah this can be a

342
00:28:45,220 --> 00:28:49,200
lot different say if you're a holding tank it a facility that can link us

343
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,520
use once a year and you also get pumped every five or six years that

344
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,400
concentration is gonna be more than the one that gets pumped every two or three

345
00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:01,600
weeks. It's going to be a large difference. The holding tanks less actually, right, because

346
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,180
you've got a little water in there. Yeah, if they're being pumped more frequently, yeah,

347
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:10,380
there's going to be a lot less. The state that number is blended though into the septic tank

348
00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:15,240
numbers isn't on the hoarding, so there's no way to divvy that out. It's really hard. I know

349
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,880
when I've been taking care of right now, they're waiting for the drain to permit. Yeah. So that's,

350
00:29:20,980 --> 00:29:24,840
I don't know how assisted is the holding tank or the system. They're just waiting on permitting for

351
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,820
the drain fuel. So there's that stuff going on too.

352
00:29:31,050 --> 00:29:35,810
I guess the way the the pumpers after report to the state, there's this four classifications,

353
00:29:35,810 --> 00:29:40,310
there's saptage, there's pit vaults, there's grease traps and sums. So I think holding tanks

354
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:45,470
probably get lumped into the saptage volume on reporting basis. So I don't know. Other than

355
00:29:45,470 --> 00:29:48,690
anecdotally, I don't know if there's a really a good way of parsing that out from the

356
00:29:48,690 --> 00:29:52,410
pumpers, it would probably be coming back to the county if there's any permit, the

357
00:29:52,410 --> 00:29:54,150
out a difference between the two to account.

358
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,960
Where this kind of goes in is a gut shack in there.

359
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:29,340
All right, seem fairly reasonable. So taking, sorry, one more thing real quick on those septic systems. And I don't know what, how many vault toilets we have here between all the parks and FWP. Does that septic systems include vault or we break that out separately? It's separate. It is. Yeah. Okay. But you had you do have those numbers. Oh, they're, they're different out separately. Okay. They might not be fully,

360
00:30:29,340 --> 00:30:35,840
in this presentation, because they were pretty minor, but on our full data set has those

361
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:36,440
parsed out.

362
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,680
That's what I did know is whether they were pretty small things.

363
00:30:41,580 --> 00:30:46,340
You know, there's only a couple of pumpers that do a lot of that, but it's pretty incidental

364
00:30:46,340 --> 00:30:48,140
in the grand scheme of the total gallons.

365
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,860
And the vault includes portapodils and pitfalls, yep.

366
00:30:57,220 --> 00:31:02,020
So this number is going to be based on the starting point of the 13-8.

367
00:31:02,020 --> 00:31:03,880
It's going to be changed a little bit.

368
00:31:04,020 --> 00:31:07,520
It sounds like which is going to change as 2.8 persons.

369
00:31:08,020 --> 00:31:09,660
It's going to change the trend a little bit.

370
00:31:12,100 --> 00:31:13,380
The numbers are going to be a little bit different.

371
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:19,440
But as a spot check, we are projecting ahead the total number of septic systems in 2045

372
00:31:20,260 --> 00:31:23,500
by the current background data that we've got and we're using.

373
00:31:23,860 --> 00:31:25,340
It was just side of 20,000.

374
00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:28,160
And if you look at that over a 20-year average,

375
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:35,780
just that's 310 new septic systems per year. Kind of just a quick gut checks. I think I had

376
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,860
and we need to get this number from the health department to be exact for every year but

377
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,640
kind of through highs and lows. 2014 I think was 175

378
00:31:51,610 --> 00:31:55,190
-ish permits. There was one period where they had

379
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:55,350
had

380
00:31:59,100 --> 00:32:04,980
300 and then in 2021, there was 575 new permits issued.

381
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,780
Yes, 131, 309 in 2017 and 2021, there was 575.

382
00:32:13,220 --> 00:32:14,760
So, let's check that out anecdotally.

383
00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:18,700
But it feels, I mean, we're within the realm of, I think,

384
00:32:18,700 --> 00:32:19,420
where we want to be.

385
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,240
It's picking up eyes and lows and that average is around 310.

386
00:32:23,420 --> 00:32:27,560
It might go up to 325 to 350, based on increasing the number

387
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,900
of septic residential units that are on septic systems.

388
00:32:36,530 --> 00:32:39,150
Then kind of going into septic flows,

389
00:32:40,150 --> 00:32:42,970
so septic tank pumpers has a little bit of background information

390
00:32:42,970 --> 00:32:45,990
and then Cooper's going to jump in here in a second too.

391
00:32:46,490 --> 00:32:49,410
So septic flows, septic pumpers are required

392
00:32:49,410 --> 00:32:51,830
to report all pumpings to the state

393
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:54,550
through the Department of Environmental Equality, Solid Waste.

394
00:32:55,170 --> 00:32:58,250
This is done semi-annually, so twice a year,

395
00:32:58,530 --> 00:33:00,050
they provide a report to the state.

396
00:33:00,050 --> 00:33:06,750
We've got that for the license operators within the county and land application sites within the county.

397
00:33:08,270 --> 00:33:14,890
Operators are allowed to either take a septage to waste water treatment plants that will accept it.

398
00:33:15,490 --> 00:33:17,670
Septage processing and composting facilities.

399
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:25,110
There's none in the western Montana that are available, landfill or land application sites.

400
00:33:25,670 --> 00:33:33,070
in Ravalli County land application sites and the Mizzoula wastewater treatment facility are really the only ones that have been used.

401
00:33:33,450 --> 00:33:38,190
So we've got data from the last five years. That's really what this next section is based on.

402
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:49,200
Come on, Cooper, were you going to go through this part or was I going to go through the data here and you were going to jump into the next part?

403
00:33:54,020 --> 00:33:55,260
I can just keep going here.

404
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:02,940
So like I said, it's either taken to the Mizzoula resource recovery facility and then there are four permitted sites within Ravalli County.

405
00:34:02,940 --> 00:34:06,400
only three of those land application sites are actually listed as active.

406
00:34:09,060 --> 00:34:12,280
The Hendrickson property has been inactive since 2022.

407
00:34:13,540 --> 00:34:17,420
Excuse me, 2020, and prior to that, it didn't accept septage waste.

408
00:34:17,420 --> 00:34:19,820
It only was some pump disposal.

409
00:34:20,460 --> 00:34:22,640
And that was in the Florence area as where that was at.

410
00:34:22,940 --> 00:34:28,880
So, this graph represents the different properties that are out there.

411
00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:30,960
zoom in a little bit.

412
00:34:32,980 --> 00:34:34,160
The Schultz property,

413
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:40,080
Vueglie property, and then the Frost property, there was two sites there. One was

414
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:46,200
created inactive recently, but the remainder of the property is still active and

415
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,780
that's in the Hamiltonites area. And then like I said, the Henderson property,

416
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:56,820
Henderson property is listed as inactive. So cumulative, this top line is the, the

417
00:34:56,820 --> 00:34:59,500
some of all land app sites that were used in Ravalli County.

418
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:03,860
You know, so we're 650,000 up to a peak of

419
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:07,620
almost 2.4 million gallons in 2021.

420
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,140
Kind of started to dip a little bit.

421
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,020
And then 2023 and 2024.

422
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,620
I think if you overlay Missoula's

423
00:35:19,130 --> 00:35:20,990
resource recovery facilities restrictions

424
00:35:20,990 --> 00:35:24,290
that explains kind of why that trend jumped back up

425
00:35:24,290 --> 00:35:26,490
to more land app sites being used in Ravalli County.

426
00:35:29,290 --> 00:35:36,430
What happened in 2014 for that to go back down was that Missoula allowing a little bit more to accommodate?

427
00:35:36,830 --> 00:35:41,210
Yeah, their maintenance project got wrapped up and there's just peaks and valleys.

428
00:35:41,290 --> 00:35:43,270
I think the pumpers probably have more context of this.

429
00:35:43,370 --> 00:35:44,170
Some is economic.

430
00:35:44,750 --> 00:35:47,510
You know, when people have money and feel it's appropriate.

431
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:48,290
It's not a rush.

432
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:56,010
I mean, the emergency pumping always happens, but a lot of the other ones I think there's probably some transit that follow with when people have money in the pockets.

433
00:35:56,930 --> 00:36:07,610
Right, I know a big one we've noticed is houses for sale, you know, for inspections

434
00:36:07,610 --> 00:36:09,270
has dropped drastically.

435
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:14,890
That's been one of our biggest so the housing has slowed way down that way.

436
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:22,230
And the Missoula hasn't taken any more, they're still the same numbers they have in

437
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:22,930
across a couple years.

438
00:36:23,250 --> 00:36:23,490
Does

439
00:36:25,950 --> 00:36:33,570
the site at the frost ranch temporarily due to the season, or is it out of service

440
00:36:33,570 --> 00:36:33,830
burnout?

441
00:36:34,830 --> 00:36:40,150
No, so you can see where it drops down after 2021.

442
00:36:40,850 --> 00:36:46,050
That's where part of the site went to inactive, and then the remainder that's there is the current

443
00:36:46,050 --> 00:36:46,790
active site.

444
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:55,530
I have one two quick points I'm trying to make sure everybody is aware of it for information.

445
00:36:56,530 --> 00:37:10,550
Are all of the pumpers that have businesses in the county do they have access to I mean I think I know the answer to this but I want to make sure everybody heads on the same page are all the pumpers do they have access to these to these to these land app sites.

446
00:37:11,350 --> 00:37:22,490
And secondly and secondly is it possible that Missoula because of they have a failure of some sort or just because politically they decide to cut off.

447
00:37:22,490 --> 00:37:25,390
other than Missoula County to use their facilities.

448
00:37:25,690 --> 00:37:29,030
Could they just all of a sudden, with very short notice,

449
00:37:29,530 --> 00:37:31,770
cut off pumpers from taking loads there,

450
00:37:32,650 --> 00:37:38,110
and that be a very serious monkey wrench in the situation.

451
00:37:38,970 --> 00:37:40,970
So the answer to the question, I guess, in two parts.

452
00:37:41,650 --> 00:37:43,690
These sites are all privately held sites.

453
00:37:44,030 --> 00:37:46,230
It's up to the property owner and the pumpers

454
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:48,230
to either work out an agreement.

455
00:37:48,570 --> 00:37:50,170
There's an environmental assessment that goes through

456
00:37:50,170 --> 00:37:51,370
when the sites are originally permitted.

457
00:37:51,370 --> 00:38:00,890
So they are private, the permission to have the right to them is all held by the property owner and who they authorize to use them.

458
00:38:01,610 --> 00:38:04,170
There's permission slips that the pumpers have to provide to DEQ.

459
00:38:04,450 --> 00:38:05,870
So they are privately held.

460
00:38:06,590 --> 00:38:12,310
Regarding Missoula resource recovery facility, there's some more data coming up on that but yes.

461
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:20,270
So the city of Missoula, it's operated for the benefit of the city of Missoula residents and taxpayers.

462
00:38:21,070 --> 00:38:26,650
There are no obligations that they provide any treatment for residents outside of the city of Missoula.

463
00:38:27,590 --> 00:38:38,790
They are, it's not affirmed, but there is discussions whether they also would restrict access to their treatment facility to Missoula County residents.

464
00:38:38,790 --> 00:38:46,150
because it's not. It's not to the death. Have we reached out? I mean one thing that we may want

465
00:38:46,150 --> 00:38:52,810
to do through this process is reach out to the land app holders because essentially what we're

466
00:38:52,810 --> 00:39:00,970
doing is we're now competing with them. If they're utilizing that for an income, a revenue source that

467
00:39:00,970 --> 00:39:05,570
we're now, you know, we could get in a situation where maybe they're willing to drop their price

468
00:39:05,570 --> 00:39:10,130
some to compete for the pumpers business and so then we've got this government

469
00:39:10,130 --> 00:39:16,790
private competition going on for septage disposal so it seems to me like

470
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:22,110
sooner than later we should reach out to I'm in this especially frost which

471
00:39:22,110 --> 00:39:27,070
looks like they're taking most of it and just say how does this impact you how can

472
00:39:27,070 --> 00:39:31,310
we work together to do this because I see that being a major hurdle through

473
00:39:31,310 --> 00:39:38,750
this whole thing is this almost two million gallon average it's going on

474
00:39:38,750 --> 00:39:44,330
land app sites if we don't get that two million dollars coming into a

475
00:39:44,330 --> 00:39:50,110
disposal system that we've got going on that kind of shoots a hole in this

476
00:39:50,110 --> 00:39:55,590
hole so if we drop the land the land app owners and they say no we we want to

477
00:39:55,590 --> 00:40:00,130
continue this and this is a significant revenue source for our family being able

478
00:40:00,130 --> 00:40:04,290
to keep this property, it's kind of a different dynamic

479
00:40:04,290 --> 00:40:05,750
to this whole discussion then.

480
00:40:05,850 --> 00:40:07,630
Versus that they're like, now we've kind of been wanting

481
00:40:07,630 --> 00:40:09,130
to get out of the business anyway.

482
00:40:09,590 --> 00:40:11,550
And that'd be a great thing for the county.

483
00:40:11,770 --> 00:40:14,450
So I think that would pretty well

484
00:40:14,450 --> 00:40:16,470
been a discussion to have through this process.

485
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:22,110
And would we also find out if they have a capacity

486
00:40:22,110 --> 00:40:25,870
for the accommodate of growth that we're talking about?

487
00:40:28,290 --> 00:40:34,270
I think all those things are a question we should have, but two million gallons go to land

488
00:40:34,270 --> 00:40:39,270
up sites as fundamental to this whole thing work and how that dynamic plays out between

489
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:42,750
the new septage facility and land up sites.

490
00:40:48,670 --> 00:40:49,510
Yeah, totally.

491
00:40:49,650 --> 00:40:50,690
We have not reached out to him yet.

492
00:40:50,830 --> 00:40:54,190
I think that's a meaningful thing to do is what their perspective is.

493
00:40:55,890 --> 00:41:00,330
The paragraph is a bunch of words here, but I think probably the important things to kind of

494
00:41:00,330 --> 00:41:08,530
the key in on is 2022, so kind of, you know, this 1.5 million here,

495
00:41:10,740 --> 00:41:11,620
it appears that

496
00:41:11,620 --> 00:41:19,670
about, it's difficult, the city has parsed out Missoula County and out of County

497
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:26,590
Septage at the receiving station. They didn't separate it from Ravalli County to Lake County

498
00:41:27,350 --> 00:41:32,610
to Sanders County or Superior. So it's kind of hard to parse that out but going

499
00:41:32,610 --> 00:41:37,410
through what the pumpers operate here where they reported their

500
00:41:37,410 --> 00:41:43,230
septage from versus what Mizzula did for the overlapping data that we have. It

501
00:41:43,230 --> 00:41:48,770
appears that about 66% out of county septage that was going to the Mizzula

502
00:41:48,770 --> 00:41:53,470
Treatment Facility was originating from our Valley County. So that comes up to

503
00:41:53,470 --> 00:42:02,970
approximately 1.9 million in 2022 that dropped in 2024 to about 950,000 so about a

504
00:42:02,970 --> 00:42:08,970
million gallons less went from Ravalli County to Missoula in 2024 from what

505
00:42:08,970 --> 00:42:14,990
it had been historically and it totally sounds about right what was about half

506
00:42:14,990 --> 00:42:15,650
of what it was.

507
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,340
So is that the total we estimate then is that sound reasonable that

508
00:42:23,340 --> 00:42:28,900
We're at three and a half million gallons generated and then there's no other

509
00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:33,480
Disposals because I heard at one point we were going to Helena maybe. I don't

510
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,860
know if that's just way minor in the whole scheme of things. There is some

511
00:42:37,860 --> 00:42:44,250
Discharges and there's two pumpers that have taken to Helena and a great

512
00:42:44,250 --> 00:42:49,570
Falls. The great Falls ones is pretty incidental. The Helena one has a little bit

513
00:42:49,570 --> 00:42:58,730
impact it's it's not huge and the issue with that is that pumper also operates in other counties so

514
00:42:59,510 --> 00:43:05,190
there isn't a county of origin in the the state's data sets so it's hard to parse if it came

515
00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:10,750
from a valley county and then went to Helena or if it originated somewhere between and that pumper

516
00:43:10,750 --> 00:43:12,190
just has it on that report.

517
00:43:14,850 --> 00:43:20,490
But it's clear that there's a million or so more gallons than we're

518
00:43:20,490 --> 00:43:23,190
We're showing on the land application sites consistently.

519
00:43:24,070 --> 00:43:26,390
He was up to $2 million, and it's been restricted, yes.

520
00:43:27,110 --> 00:43:27,230
Okay.

521
00:43:30,460 --> 00:43:35,160
Jim Rommel, again, Mr. Rosa, I'm sorry, I got to ask you a question here.

522
00:43:36,580 --> 00:43:49,280
Are you suggesting that if the frost object to getting money from septic trucks driving up

523
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:55,080
their driveway on their back 40 that we stopped this whole project.

524
00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,080
If that's what you heard, I don't think that's what I said.

525
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,260
Okay, I want to clarify that.

526
00:44:02,340 --> 00:44:08,120
What I said was we have two million gallons of septage going to the cross property.

527
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:08,640
Correct.

528
00:44:08,900 --> 00:44:12,560
Unless we create an ordinance or complete prohibition.

529
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:13,080
There you go.

530
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:13,320
There you go.

531
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,960
This is going to work.

532
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:17,860
That's exactly where I want to go.

533
00:44:17,860 --> 00:44:24,900
want you to go. Thank you very much because yeah that's going to have to happen. I mean if we say

534
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:32,060
if we say you know if I'm a septic pumper and I got to pay $10 a gallon at the sewer plant

535
00:44:32,060 --> 00:44:39,660
and $2 a gallon of frost property where am I going? Okay that is that question has got to be

536
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:46,780
solved now or our meeting is worthless. Well I think that's what I said about five minutes ago.

537
00:44:46,780 --> 00:44:51,720
That's exactly the point that I just made is that if we don't figure out the

538
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:56,720
impacts of the land-app sites on this whole process, we may as well end it, because if two

539
00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:59,320
million gallons are still going to the land-app sites,

540
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:28,820
There's no way that this plan is going to pencil out. And so then you get further down the road, which is, do we, do we want to, first, do we want to, and two, do we have the authority to restrict land app sites, or is it a permitted process under state law, whether, whether we object to it or not, they get a land app site. So there's a lot of dynamics to the land app site that need figured out through this process.

541
00:45:28,820 --> 00:45:30,240
Thank you for clarifying that.

542
00:45:30,460 --> 00:45:32,900
And Jeff, the other wrinkle that we got, I consider.

543
00:45:33,140 --> 00:45:34,200
Roger, can you go to the microphone?

544
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:35,360
Sorry, it's picked up, please.

545
00:45:35,740 --> 00:45:36,000
Thank you.

546
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,940
Roger DeHon, the other little wrinkle we got to consider

547
00:45:41,940 --> 00:45:45,000
is that Ravelli County is not the only county around.

548
00:45:45,380 --> 00:45:47,560
If people are already willing to drive to Helena,

549
00:45:48,060 --> 00:45:50,620
there's a lot of empty land between here and Helena.

550
00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:53,220
I think we heard that from a pump or this set of,

551
00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:54,440
we had to have a land upside.

552
00:45:54,740 --> 00:45:56,680
I think, can Missoula County?

553
00:45:57,380 --> 00:45:59,340
So that is another dynamic.

554
00:45:59,340 --> 00:46:04,740
Yeah, Browns has went in with it. I think that there's some more to come on now. Okay. So yeah. Yeah. So it, you know,

555
00:46:05,260 --> 00:46:10,260
Ravalli County can make an ordinance, you know, no land app in Ravalli County. That doesn't stop somebody from

556
00:46:10,260 --> 00:46:12,500
finding a place in adjacent county.

557
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,940
Well, do we want to regulate somebody out of business on a legal business?

558
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:22,180
Thank you, Roger.

559
00:46:26,140 --> 00:46:29,140
So I think I jumped the gun. I think Cooper's going to jump in here and kind of talk about

560
00:46:29,140 --> 00:46:34,260
subject tank maintenance and composition for a quick second, and then we'll get back to

561
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:40,200
really the land requirements and where we currently sit on inventory.

562
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:46,000
Awesome. Thank you, Ryan, and thank you everyone. Yeah, again, feel free to step in as

563
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:52,200
any questions rise. Yeah, so support the department of environmental quality here in Montana,

564
00:46:52,820 --> 00:46:58,420
as well as the EPA on the federal level, both recommend consistent pumping of subject tanks.

565
00:46:59,140 --> 00:47:03,360
And as often as two years, up to a maximum interval of around six years.

566
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:10,060
When modernizing these septic systems, it's important to include several pertinences,

567
00:47:10,300 --> 00:47:16,100
like baffle walls, to direct flow, ensure proper solid grease and liquid separation, as

568
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:20,160
well as encourage settling of solids and slowing down the process of clogging.

569
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:26,560
Additionally, modern tanks often utilize effluent filters to trap small suspended solids

570
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,260
that may not have settled out earlier in the process.

571
00:47:29,580 --> 00:47:32,280
This extends the lifespan of the system

572
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,980
and helps prevent blockages in the drain field,

573
00:47:35,180 --> 00:47:37,340
which may call for expensive repairs

574
00:47:37,340 --> 00:47:38,580
and replacements down the line.

575
00:47:39,700 --> 00:47:42,680
But in terms of sizing, residential subject tanks,

576
00:47:43,060 --> 00:47:46,100
it varies depending on the amount of bedrooms

577
00:47:46,100 --> 00:47:48,960
and the dwellings from two up to seven,

578
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,760
but they size from about a minimum of 1,000 gallons

579
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,500
and upwards of 2,000 gallons

580
00:47:54,500 --> 00:48:00,620
depending on the size of the home, and non-residential tanks are also sized at that minimum 1,000 gallons,

581
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:05,700
but they have an additional requirement of needing a two and a half days of retention time.

582
00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:09,420
You can slide down here.

583
00:48:11,100 --> 00:48:18,180
Yeah, but here on the left, we see an example of one of these modernized septic tanks that I discussed before.

584
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,880
It has a baffle and an effluent filter, as mentioned beforehand.

585
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:29,380
And in regards to a specific composition of the septage in a tank, we see mostly three

586
00:48:29,380 --> 00:48:29,780
components.

587
00:48:30,300 --> 00:48:34,280
The first of is sludge, which accumulates on the bottom of the tank, and accounts for

588
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,380
roughly one-fifth to one-half of total volume of the tank.

589
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:44,480
And above that, we have scum, which typically consists of fat-soil's creases that accumulates

590
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,500
on the top of the rest of the effluent liquids.

591
00:48:46,500 --> 00:48:47,800
It's combined.

592
00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:51,940
These components make the total product of septage, which

593
00:48:51,940 --> 00:48:55,240
is largely considered low volume, high-strength ways

594
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:57,280
due to its high concentrations of beauty,

595
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,200
nutrients, and solids seen as here on the table

596
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:00,660
on the right.

597
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:03,940
We've got about 5,000 milligrams per liter of BOD,

598
00:49:04,860 --> 00:49:09,940
around 250 total phosphorus, about 670 total nitrogen,

599
00:49:10,380 --> 00:49:13,080
other nutrients, and then a total solids concentration

600
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:21,000
of about 28,000. I'm assuming that's supposed to be milligrams per liter there. But yeah, on the

601
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:26,720
separate side, and then on the influence side, see about 230 milligrams per liter of BOD. And then,

602
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:32,780
you know, much slower nutrient values of 6 and 44 milligrams per liter, respectively, in about 400

603
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,100
milligrams per liter of total solids.

604
00:49:36,740 --> 00:49:40,420
So, every wastewater treatment facility is going to have a little bit different

605
00:49:40,420 --> 00:49:45,440
or influence. Influent is raw waste water coming into a treatment plant. So you can just see

606
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:54,580
the disparity between regular composition influence into this data from a Western Montana facility

607
00:49:54,580 --> 00:50:00,740
that has a separate receiving facility. So it is analytical data from the early 2000s.

608
00:50:01,340 --> 00:50:07,480
You can see the difference there. BOD is substantially higher. Most of the permits are written around

609
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:15,380
TSS, or nitrogen removal, and you can see obviously that septic has far more nutrients

610
00:50:15,380 --> 00:50:19,020
via phosphorus and nitrogen than normal plant influence.

611
00:50:20,700 --> 00:50:23,860
Yeah, a lot less diluted during that process.

612
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,880
So this number is based on the population and the septic, so it's going to be a little

613
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:34,920
bit different based on what we just talked about with the total number of septic systems.

614
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:39,600
But right now we're estimating approximately 2.8 million gallons of

615
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:45,820
septage comes in, that's approximately 210 gallons per year, per septic system.

616
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:53,780
So it goes to that average pumping sequence of, you know, every five years,

617
00:50:53,980 --> 00:50:57,300
four, four and a half, five years, maybe six years is kind of enough.

618
00:50:58,820 --> 00:51:03,640
It might feel a little bit more frequent than most people do it, quite

619
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:08,280
honestly, I know the guidance is three to five years, but I doubt many people

620
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:09,460
follow that trend, honestly.

621
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,760
Where that goes out to, though, population projections

622
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:26,120
is at the end of 20 years, we're up to almost 4.2 million gallons of

623
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,960
septage generated from within Ravalli County per year.

624
00:51:34,620 --> 00:51:35,220
We're going to kind of

625
00:51:35,220 --> 00:51:38,840
switch gears now to talk about the existing facilities that are used for

626
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,540
accepting and treating septage except

627
00:51:43,590 --> 00:51:47,550
there's six licensed septic operators

628
00:51:47,550 --> 00:51:51,530
list to rally county as service areas they're listed here there's your licenses

629
00:51:51,530 --> 00:51:55,370
they're required to do their license in the canylie to report it through the

630
00:51:55,370 --> 00:51:59,710
state we're gonna dive real quick into land application requirements first and

631
00:51:59,710 --> 00:52:05,590
then we'll talk about the waste bar treatment plan as well so land

632
00:52:05,590 --> 00:52:15,370
applications within Montana are governed by Montana DQ, ARM 17-50.809. There is also a

633
00:52:15,370 --> 00:52:22,750
component of that that goes to the, help the governing health board for the county, but the

634
00:52:22,750 --> 00:52:26,450
review the environmental assessment are prepared by the state of Montana.

635
00:52:35,530 --> 00:52:35,570
There are sites that

636
00:52:35,570 --> 00:52:38,210
They need to be 500 feet away from any inhibited buildings.

637
00:52:39,350 --> 00:52:44,450
Pumpings can't be applied within 150 feet of any surface waters or infirm.

638
00:52:45,330 --> 00:52:47,630
Ephemeral or intermittent drainages and wetlands.

639
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:52,930
Pumpings cannot be applied within 100 feet of any roadways that are public.

640
00:52:53,170 --> 00:52:55,650
So that's state federal county or city maintained roadways.

641
00:52:56,690 --> 00:53:00,570
Pumpings cannot be applied within 100 feet of any drinking water supplies.

642
00:53:01,230 --> 00:53:02,070
So mostly wells.

643
00:53:03,370 --> 00:53:08,710
and then they need to be on slopes less than 6%. I think that gets reduced to

644
00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:10,130
3% on frozen ground.

645
00:53:12,290 --> 00:53:14,850
And then seasonal groundwater separation is a 6 foot

646
00:53:14,850 --> 00:53:15,190
minimum.

647
00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:19,770
So site maintenance, there's maintenance requirements that anybody

648
00:53:19,770 --> 00:53:25,490
using land app sites has to follow. Basically any litter that isn't screened out

649
00:53:25,490 --> 00:53:30,550
needs to be picked up within eight, six hours of application. Pumpings have to be

650
00:53:30,550 --> 00:53:37,190
You apply it at agronomical annual application rates, so depending on either the crop or

651
00:53:37,190 --> 00:53:42,810
range land, there's a nitrogen uptake that's used to determine how many gallons of

652
00:53:42,810 --> 00:53:45,050
septage per year are allowed to be put on there.

653
00:53:45,650 --> 00:53:49,890
You can't over apply and start to carry those nutrients in the soil.

654
00:53:50,110 --> 00:53:51,550
You need to show that you're consuming them.

655
00:53:54,580 --> 00:53:58,140
I don't think there's any analytical soil tests that are showing that you're doing that.

656
00:53:58,140 --> 00:54:01,520
It's just you need to show the paper that you're doing that.

657
00:54:02,820 --> 00:54:07,740
Pumpings can't be applied on frozen or snow cover ground that may enter the state water.

658
00:54:07,940 --> 00:54:12,300
There are some provisions to apply on frozen ground if it's less than 3% and there's a

659
00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:14,020
couple other special requirements for that.

660
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:22,300
The other one that's critically that needs to be implemented is any vector attraction, path

661
00:54:22,300 --> 00:54:31,520
So vectors or insects, rodents, things that can carry disease or illness from an animal

662
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,240
to a human or considered vector.

663
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:34,380
So insects,

664
00:54:37,230 --> 00:54:40,810
or like I said, it's in the internet connection, so I think I think so working

665
00:54:40,810 --> 00:54:41,790
on them.

666
00:54:45,530 --> 00:54:46,630
There's multiple ways to do that.

667
00:54:46,730 --> 00:54:51,630
They can be incorporated in the ground within six hours or they can be localized, stabilized

668
00:54:51,630 --> 00:54:54,570
to increase the pH higher than 12 for 30 minutes.

669
00:54:55,370 --> 00:55:01,850
and then there's land used restrictions such as grazing, contact to human health protections, crop.

670
00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:05,170
I mean there's just a gamut of what the ended use is.

671
00:55:05,570 --> 00:55:09,630
That runs from everything from 30 days for public access to up to 38 months.

672
00:55:10,210 --> 00:55:14,290
If there's a crop that would include edible parts for harvest below ground.

673
00:55:14,590 --> 00:55:20,190
So carrots, potatoes, beets, anything that would potentially be an edible crop

674
00:55:20,190 --> 00:55:24,410
is you can't use the land for that for 38 months.

675
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,020
We could back up about one paragraph.

676
00:55:32,700 --> 00:55:39,180
You were talking about testing that was required in these land app places for, I think

677
00:55:39,180 --> 00:55:47,480
it was probably nitrates that had to be done, that have to be done by the user, and in Revali

678
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:54,800
county. I'll use one spot in particular. Jim Rommel, you might be sensitive to this because

679
00:55:54,800 --> 00:56:00,260
it's close to you, I think. And that is the one that's up Hamilton Heights Road. Is that

680
00:56:00,260 --> 00:56:04,500
being, is there statistical data to prove that that's being done there?

681
00:56:05,180 --> 00:56:11,780
So I hope I didn't miss that speak. I was trying to say there is no, to my knowledge, there

682
00:56:11,780 --> 00:56:17,240
is no requirement to sample the soil to check nitrates beginning and to make sure it's

683
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:22,100
being uptaken. There's requirements to do the calculations to show that the vegetation

684
00:56:22,100 --> 00:56:27,100
or the crop that's being used on that property is going to take up those nutrients and

685
00:56:27,100 --> 00:56:31,860
nitrogen. But I don't believe how do we know?

686
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:39,260
So the state, through their assembly and reporting, they check the application rates versus the

687
00:56:39,260 --> 00:56:43,720
agronomical uptaking. But it's just a paper exercised to my understanding.

688
00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:50,520
When we see an area being, you know, just visually see that people can be nervous about,

689
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:53,500
wow, the frequency of use is like extraordinary.

690
00:56:53,880 --> 00:57:02,320
In their minds, is it in fact being used with a higher frequency than maybe, you know,

691
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:08,200
in other words, who keeps a check on and how do we know if the frequency of use by trucks dumping

692
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:14,960
on a certain number of acres is in fact over the top or within the prescribed limit.

693
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:21,440
The way the environmental assessment and the permit is written would be gallons per

694
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:28,160
acre across the site and then there's reporting of gallons that are applied to that site.

695
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:35,720
I am unaware of the state is taking it to, you know, if you've got a hundred acres and

696
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,540
and you're allowed to meet gallons across that site.

697
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,160
If they're just checking that your applications are right

698
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,040
and assuming you're dispersing it across the entire area,

699
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:45,940
or if you're over-applying in one corner,

700
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:46,960
because it's easier to get to.

701
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:52,280
I don't know that anybody is routinely checking that,

702
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:54,060
and although there are two inspections,

703
00:57:54,060 --> 00:57:55,740
I believe, per year, per site,

704
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:57,420
that should be looking at that,

705
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,300
looking at full replication, misuse of the site.

706
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,940
There are revocation processes that

707
00:58:02,940 --> 00:58:11,270
Depremence and licenses can be revoked or reviewed if any of the pumpers have more data on that than I do

708
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:13,290
I think that's my understanding of the process those

709
00:58:20,090 --> 00:58:23,930
There's different ways to do it you the vector reduction has to happen

710
00:58:23,930 --> 00:58:29,850
And that's either raising the pH through adding a line to crease that windy or it ain't incorporating the soil

711
00:58:29,850 --> 00:58:33,390
Okay, there's two different ways so there's two different ways to do it. Yep

712
00:58:40,180 --> 00:58:47,500
So, here's a map that we have that shows the application sites within Ravalli County

713
00:58:47,500 --> 00:58:49,980
and then it also lists the city.

714
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:52,660
So, where's the bitter national forest in there?

715
00:58:54,660 --> 00:58:55,220
Okay.

716
00:58:55,940 --> 00:58:56,960
Jump up your rope, I can't.

717
00:58:57,500 --> 00:58:58,700
We should probably overlay on there.

718
00:59:00,100 --> 00:59:01,040
This map.

719
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:01,780
Sorry.

720
00:59:07,750 --> 00:59:07,930
Sorry.

721
00:59:08,090 --> 00:59:08,610
There may be this map.

722
00:59:08,610 --> 00:59:15,970
so the the planning area map here highlights so a little bit difficult to see

723
00:59:15,970 --> 00:59:18,910
you can kind of make out the yellow orange line that's the county boundary

724
00:59:18,910 --> 00:59:23,970
the gray hatched area or shaded area is all public lands whether it's

725
00:59:23,970 --> 00:59:28,710
state or federal forests and grasslands and then yeah the white areas are

726
00:59:28,710 --> 00:59:34,290
privately held. I think you just go back and open a slow figure I'm

727
00:59:38,580 --> 00:59:38,880
gonna go through

728
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,840
the land upsides first since we've been talking about that more and then we'll

729
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:46,600
jump back to the municipal system. So I'm going to start down here. Shell's property

730
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:55,320
located down by Connor. It's a fairly small area. Most recently there's about 4.5, 4.6 acres.

731
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:59,960
it's been used actively ranges from 300

732
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:06,460
We've got 130,000 gallons per year, 400,000 gallons per year. We've got pretty consistent.

733
01:00:09,780 --> 01:00:12,060
Let me just make sure I'm missing anything on that one.

734
01:00:18,790 --> 01:00:20,670
It's been pretty consistently used.

735
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:42,190
And then the next one currently is really the frost property. This is one of the couple of people mentioned. It's currently approximately 107 acres of historic use. It appears to be reduced to approximately 35 acres.

736
01:00:42,190 --> 01:00:50,310
since 2010, and then 2022, the average is 1.3 million gallons, 2023, 1.5 million gallons.

737
01:00:52,110 --> 01:00:52,850
Like I noted,

738
01:00:56,700 --> 01:01:04,400
this site accepts pit vault waste, pit vault waste, and 2021 appears to have

739
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:11,860
been limited or reduced. Historically, it had accepted up to 125,000 gallons of pit vault

740
01:01:11,860 --> 01:01:20,100
waste and a little bit of grease waste as well. Usually, you know, 70,000 ish was the highest

741
01:01:20,100 --> 01:01:25,540
of grease waste that was applied to this site. It appears to be the only site in Ravalli County

742
01:01:25,540 --> 01:01:33,160
that is accepting grease interceptors and routinely accepting pit vault waste as well.

743
01:01:44,060 --> 01:01:45,380
The utility property,

744
01:01:46,420 --> 01:01:50,560
this is the most recent one that's permitted in the county, so we've got more data on here.

745
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:55,900
environmental assessment went through a couple of processes. Went from over a hundred acres of

746
01:01:55,900 --> 01:02:02,040
permitted down to 72 throughout that process basically. Most recent activity appears that it's

747
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:09,020
approximately using 14 acres of the site's been used. It was used in 2019 and then operation of

748
01:02:09,020 --> 01:02:16,040
it was ceased for a couple of years. It was started to be used again in 2022 and 2023.

749
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:24,400
three. It's been used, you know, the 2019 it was used for about 205,000 gallons, 2023.

750
01:02:25,050 --> 01:02:32,680
It was used for a hundred or excuse me, 411,000 and then 2024, the usage was reduced again

751
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:43,360
to approximately 165,000 gallons of septage. And then, um, large one that isn't in Rivali

752
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:49,760
county but is used for Rurali County waste is the Hanson properties so this

753
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:55,280
isn't located just west of Butler Creek and north of I 90 as you leave in

754
01:02:55,280 --> 01:03:01,120
Missoula out for the why it's a fairly large site on average it's been used

755
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,960
for approximately 1.5 million gallons of septage has been land applied on

756
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:09,240
there annually this is the one that's a little bit difficult and we need to dive

757
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,700
into the numbers a little bit more from the actual pumpers that are using this

758
01:03:12,700 --> 01:03:20,120
facility of the 1.47 that's a blend of a Valley County and Mizzoula County probably some Lake County. It's a little bit of everybody

759
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:24,720
Yeah, I

760
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,960
Hope we've got right now. We don't really have a chain of custody of where the source was for that

761
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:31,120
so

762
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:38,440
Then just kind of jumping through the other option the city, Mizzoula. So their resource recovery facility

763
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:47,080
They have a percentage receiving it's being used by a bit of a bumper actually when this photo was taken so

764
01:03:47,500 --> 01:03:49,660
That's what they have for their facility.

765
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:54,860
The history of it was originally constructed in 1962, went through some major improvements

766
01:03:54,860 --> 01:03:55,760
in 2010.

767
01:03:56,420 --> 01:04:01,720
The headworks and septage receiving facilities, I think we're built in the 2012 range.

768
01:04:02,820 --> 01:04:08,160
In 2023, the city went through some maintenance of their primary digester and through that process.

769
01:04:08,780 --> 01:04:14,480
They had struggled with some balance issues on the digester gases, so they started to restrict

770
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:19,740
septage as a potential culprit and then like we talked about before they are

771
01:04:20,780 --> 01:04:25,860
evaluating they're doing a facility plan update currently and with that they

772
01:04:25,860 --> 01:04:33,660
are starting to evaluate whether septage is more harmful for their system whether

773
01:04:33,660 --> 01:04:37,140
it's being invoiced and billed at appropriate rates for the maintenance and

774
01:04:37,140 --> 01:04:41,700
ONM that it actually causes and acquires and through that process they've

775
01:04:41,700 --> 01:04:47,780
restricted to about a million gallons per year right now, but further restrictions may be coming.

776
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:55,280
And then those are really the five options that are out there currently for active sites,

777
01:04:55,280 --> 01:05:00,120
like I mentioned before, there was one in active site that's listed as permitted still in

778
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:05,000
Revali County, but it was only used for some disposal and it hasn't been used since I think 2020,

779
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,840
20 and that was the Hendricks and Property Locate in the Florence area.

780
01:05:09,980 --> 01:05:14,500
So other public systems that are in Valley County, town of Stevensville,

781
01:05:15,460 --> 01:05:20,220
original system was constructed in the late 1970s, so it was upgraded in 2006.

782
01:05:21,780 --> 01:05:27,380
Service approximately or treats approximately 300,000 gallons or 0.3 million gallons per day.

783
01:05:27,740 --> 01:05:30,900
It discharges to the bitter river,

784
01:05:33,260 --> 01:05:34,600
some mechanical treatment plant.

785
01:05:37,290 --> 01:05:38,710
Steamswell does not currently accept

786
01:05:38,710 --> 01:05:42,050
septage waste from residents outside

787
01:05:42,050 --> 01:05:44,050
of the town of Stevensville, and I don't know

788
01:05:44,050 --> 01:05:45,570
that they have any septet tanks in the

789
01:05:45,570 --> 01:05:47,410
town of Stevensville, but it's not being

790
01:05:47,410 --> 01:05:48,690
used by anybody currently.

791
01:05:49,970 --> 01:05:52,630
City of Hamilton, City's system was

792
01:05:52,630 --> 01:05:55,530
originally constructed in 1984, went

793
01:05:55,530 --> 01:05:57,050
through several modifications and upgrades

794
01:05:57,050 --> 01:06:02,310
from the mid-90s through 2015-16, they're

795
01:06:02,310 --> 01:06:04,650
currently going through a facility update

796
01:06:04,650 --> 01:06:11,810
as well. They treat approximately 750,000 gallons per day. They also discharge to the

797
01:06:11,810 --> 01:06:18,770
Bitterit River, it's a mechanical treatment facility. It utilizes solid management, which

798
01:06:18,770 --> 01:06:24,850
is of interest for a septage treatment and management. It's through a dissolved air

799
01:06:25,470 --> 01:06:33,190
DAF filtration units. They use also an aerobic digester in a composting facility after it

800
01:06:33,190 --> 01:06:39,330
that you want in screw press. The city of Hamilton also does not currently accept

801
01:06:39,330 --> 01:06:44,710
septage waste. Town of Derby is another municipal system. They're a

802
01:06:44,710 --> 01:06:51,210
lagoon system. Construction 1964 with one cell, the two other cells were

803
01:06:51,210 --> 01:06:54,890
constructed in 1980. They are also currently going through an improvement process.

804
01:06:55,610 --> 01:07:00,110
They have several violations with Montana DEQ currently that they're trying to

805
01:07:00,110 --> 01:07:08,030
address their discharge permit is noted there is a and then yeah the town does

806
01:07:08,030 --> 01:07:13,670
not accept septage at this point time either. Victor sewer district originally

807
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:20,170
constructed in the 1970s. Victor prior to the 1970s was a non-seward community

808
01:07:20,170 --> 01:07:23,990
everybody was on individual septic systems in that community through some

809
01:07:23,990 --> 01:07:28,370
funding they built their original facility with a single cell and infiltration

810
01:07:28,370 --> 01:07:30,810
and percolation cells, the discharge to groundwater,

811
01:07:31,710 --> 01:07:33,390
air adhesion and a holding cell,

812
01:07:33,690 --> 01:07:36,850
and a second treatment cell were added in the early 2000s.

813
01:07:37,530 --> 01:07:39,370
The district is planning for current improvements

814
01:07:39,370 --> 01:07:42,810
to enlarge the air adhesion area, relocate the infiltration

815
01:07:42,810 --> 01:07:45,410
and percolation away from the bitter river

816
01:07:45,410 --> 01:07:47,990
to maintain a discharge permit or a day

817
01:07:47,990 --> 01:07:49,290
to get a discharge permit for that.

818
01:07:50,290 --> 01:07:53,510
Then Corvalli's sewer district also was a public system,

819
01:07:54,070 --> 01:07:55,850
constructed again in the 1970s.

820
01:07:55,850 --> 01:08:00,770
It's a groundwater discharge facility, it includes multiple treatment cells and

821
01:08:00,770 --> 01:08:04,210
engineered wetland and then discharge it through infiltration and

822
01:08:04,210 --> 01:08:09,750
percolation cells. It's currently being improved to provide a headwork

823
01:08:09,750 --> 01:08:14,870
screening replacement of the disinfection with air asian or excuse me with UV

824
01:08:14,870 --> 01:08:19,330
disinfection and then the blower and air asian systems are being replaced along

825
01:08:19,330 --> 01:08:24,790
with the main liftation as it being rebuilt. And those are really the sources of

826
01:08:24,790 --> 01:08:30,130
septage treatments and also the municipal systems that accept it, and then the don't that are

827
01:08:30,130 --> 01:08:38,350
invented with in Ravalli County. Two quick points. One is further back when we started talking

828
01:08:38,350 --> 01:08:43,450
about the improvements in Hamilton. Has the EPA either loosened or tightened the numbers

829
01:08:43,450 --> 01:08:51,450
of their requirements on the affluent or the discharge that goes into the river as far as

830
01:08:52,610 --> 01:09:05,210
What's allowable to dump into the river and then would you please explain how wetlands are used in the filtration in I believe I'll be Corvallis, OK.

831
01:09:05,950 --> 01:09:06,430
Thank you.

832
01:09:08,350 --> 01:09:17,450
So within Montana both surface water and groundwater discharges are state permits unless you're on tribal lands and other EPA permit.

833
01:09:17,450 --> 01:09:21,670
So Hamilton, I can't remember their last permit renew cycle.

834
01:09:22,790 --> 01:09:26,490
They do review nutrient limits every permit cycle.

835
01:09:27,070 --> 01:09:30,050
Sometimes they stay out there, sometimes they rush it down,

836
01:09:30,310 --> 01:09:33,710
with watershed impacts and TMDLs,

837
01:09:33,710 --> 01:09:36,070
it will get to the next section.

838
01:09:37,050 --> 01:09:39,510
I think everybody anticipates that discharge limits

839
01:09:39,510 --> 01:09:43,070
to surface water will continue to be reduced,

840
01:09:43,450 --> 01:09:45,290
moving forward through each permit cycle.

841
01:09:45,290 --> 01:09:59,430
There are variance processes that are available for those communities as they work through planning for and implementing improvements, but there are things that aren't doneies on line here. I don't know if you want to speak to that at all kind of where you're at.

842
01:10:05,380 --> 01:10:14,180
The new tree limits are reduced through the permitting process, so the current limits for Hamilton likely will be reduced with future permitting rules.

843
01:10:15,140 --> 01:10:17,300
Looks like dying might be able to have some time.

844
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:26,900
Well, wrap up Hamilton and then we'll jump to Corvallis and Darby.

845
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,420
Our discharge permit was updated.

846
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,460
Our renewal application went in in 2016.

847
01:10:33,980 --> 01:10:36,620
Our actual permit renewal was 2021.

848
01:10:37,700 --> 01:10:43,540
And DQ maintained our same discharge limits as our previous permit.

849
01:10:45,740 --> 01:10:51,860
Our treatment plant, you know, changed our process in the early 2000s.

850
01:10:52,620 --> 01:10:54,900
To do phase nitrification, denitrification.

851
01:10:54,900 --> 01:10:59,800
and so does a fairly good job of removing nitrogen and phosphorus.

852
01:11:00,860 --> 01:11:06,180
So, you know, our current effluent is fairly well

853
01:11:06,180 --> 01:11:09,220
about a tenth of our discharge permit requirements

854
01:11:09,220 --> 01:11:11,380
for nitrogen and phosphorus.

855
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:16,660
But, you know, those are every permit cycle

856
01:11:16,660 --> 01:11:20,380
are kind of up where they go

857
01:11:20,380 --> 01:11:24,640
and we're, you know, about half capacity right now, too.

858
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:25,020
So

859
01:11:33,820 --> 01:11:39,000
real quick Corvallis you mentioned they use engineered wetlands

860
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:44,600
That was installed in 2004. It provides some

861
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:49,980
Neutrification reduction or denyification and then it also is a polishing

862
01:11:52,580 --> 01:11:57,600
Historically performance in cold leather periods and then maintenance

863
01:12:00,190 --> 01:12:07,050
It performs that thing as it intended, but it also kind of has some challenges in cold leather and then increases maintenance

864
01:12:07,150 --> 01:12:10,790
requirements for vegetation, and then there's sludge accumulation within the engineering

865
01:12:10,790 --> 01:12:11,030
level.

866
01:12:11,830 --> 01:12:15,010
Would you define what you called half the passion, which is that?

867
01:12:15,130 --> 01:12:20,230
So every municipality has a part of their permit.

868
01:12:20,550 --> 01:12:27,130
It's ex-galanced per day, and where Daniel was getting to with Hamilton is their current

869
01:12:27,750 --> 01:12:31,550
influence and effluent gallons per day is approximately half of what their permitted

870
01:12:31,550 --> 01:12:32,110
limit is.

871
01:12:32,110 --> 01:12:39,490
So the permit limit handles for private average day and then maximum and then it's also for the town of Hamilton.

872
01:12:39,730 --> 01:12:43,830
The city of Hamilton's growth within their planning period is what those permits are usually written for.

873
01:12:45,030 --> 01:12:50,570
So if that's the case, I mean they have 50% capacity right now or just maybe a little more in Hamilton.

874
01:12:51,110 --> 01:12:54,350
Let's just use it as an example of other places in the valley also.

875
01:12:54,350 --> 01:13:02,490
So that means that high-density housing possibilities for the future are best attached to existing

876
01:13:02,490 --> 01:13:10,310
facilities rather than torturing our outer landscapes with septic systems, yes?

877
01:13:13,450 --> 01:13:14,310
Thank you.

878
01:13:17,210 --> 01:13:18,410
Do you want to deal with that one?

879
01:13:18,750 --> 01:13:19,190
Thank you.

880
01:13:19,330 --> 01:13:19,710
Goodbye, Skip.

881
01:13:21,610 --> 01:13:22,590
And then Darby,

882
01:13:30,380 --> 01:13:32,640
I honestly don't know what time about the current project.

883
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:37,800
But I do know there was challenges, I think with their discharge, may have been a ground

884
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:42,380
war discharge, but it was under direct connection to the Bitter River, and they've struggled

885
01:13:42,380 --> 01:13:47,700
with violations, their improvements are meant to, I think, improve aeration.

886
01:13:48,060 --> 01:13:50,820
They're still staying with a lagoon treatment system.

887
01:13:52,100 --> 01:13:54,180
It's not Darby, sorry, we jumped back to Darby.

888
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:59,380
Sorry, I don't know a ton about their system, other than, like I said, historically, they've

889
01:13:59,380 --> 01:14:04,920
struggled with with effluent quality based on some sludge accumulation that was

890
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:10,300
their lack of aeration through their existing system but believe both of

891
01:14:10,300 --> 01:14:12,520
those are being approved with their current product.

892
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:16,540
I think they're doing their sludge removal like the dredging here and they

893
01:14:16,540 --> 01:14:23,200
did meet to to positive test results which they needed to get that violation but

894
01:14:23,780 --> 01:14:34,740
I'm going to get into your experience because the people in the valley are very concerned about the cleanliness of the Viro River.

895
01:14:35,660 --> 01:14:39,120
It's going to even become more of a problem later on as in mind possible.

896
01:14:44,650 --> 01:14:48,610
Any other questions on existing means of treatment and disposal?

897
01:14:50,430 --> 01:14:52,290
If we don't, I'm just going to jump.

898
01:14:52,290 --> 01:14:59,950
I know we've got about 15 minutes left here on our slot of time so the next step that we're just going

899
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:28,680
What we're going into right now is evaluation of existing facilities and treatment methods that are available and we broke this down to really two different sites or two different options. So we looked at the evaluation of the land app sites from a health safety and security standpoint. Some things that are just out there to be aware of threats to the public control of access, sites need to be fenced, research public access, that fencing needs to be maintained, public needs to be kept off of it.

900
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:36,180
If public is allowed to me under on, there's exposure or risks for pathogens and diseases

901
01:15:36,180 --> 01:15:36,760
and viruses.

902
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:44,060
Screening a solid waste, land applications requires a three-quarter of screening that

903
01:15:44,060 --> 01:15:46,540
screening needs to be taken to a class to landfill.

904
01:15:47,580 --> 01:15:52,900
Anytime you're touching contaminated waste, there's an essential risk for contaminants.

905
01:15:53,020 --> 01:15:57,540
That's really on the pumpers themselves, and it shouldn't be handled in the landfill by

906
01:15:57,540 --> 01:16:03,800
hand but if there is any contamination groundwater and surface water resources, shallow water resources

907
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:09,500
and runoff to state waters are threatened by over application, application on frozen ground

908
01:16:10,900 --> 01:16:18,680
must be basically lime stabilized or alkali stabilized. There's vector attraction and pathogen

909
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:26,480
reduction requirements that need to be maintained if not. There is a threat to endangering the public

910
01:16:26,480 --> 01:16:32,880
whether it's livestock, animals that may be consumed by humans or just humans

911
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:37,440
themselves. So, again, vectors or anything that comes in contact with septage,

912
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:42,720
whether they're insects, rodents that could then pass a virus to humans, and then

913
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:47,420
animal and grazing crop restrictions. So, the 30-day minimum for grazing crop

914
01:16:47,420 --> 01:16:47,880
restrictions.

915
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:55,180
General. As the fire captain for 32 years, the fight came on this

916
01:16:55,180 --> 01:16:59,980
seeing with my fire engine, I would create a hazmat sight right there. Nobody's

917
01:16:59,980 --> 01:17:03,300
getting in or out of there. You got a beautiful clean truck putting this is why

918
01:17:03,300 --> 01:17:10,520
we're here. This is why we're here. We got to fix this. This can't continue. Thank

919
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:10,760
you.

920
01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:24,110
And then the other thing to look at is capacity and aging facilities. So any

921
01:17:24,110 --> 01:17:27,890
application rate like we mentioned is really related to total pounds of nitrogen

922
01:17:27,890 --> 01:17:55,870
put on per acre for uptake of each of your vegetation or crops, there's land, and set back requirements, like we talked about before, kind of list those again, those lead to restrictions on land, and then capacity or capital costs, the large landtracks to purchase, you know, really, ideal sites are greater than 100 acres by the time you apply all the setbacks, you need large landtracks to be efficient and effective.

923
01:17:56,630 --> 01:18:01,950
I'm just looking at an example here range land is probably the lowest property production

924
01:18:01,950 --> 01:18:09,670
source there so that's to get there basically you're using 25 pounds of nitrogen per year

925
01:18:09,670 --> 01:18:16,410
is what EQ lists that equates to 96 hundred gallons per year per acre.

926
01:18:17,170 --> 01:18:23,370
If you look at that of the forecasted there's currently a need for 300 acres to land to

927
01:18:23,370 --> 01:18:28,170
everything in Rivali County in the future there need to be 440 acres and that

928
01:18:28,170 --> 01:18:32,010
doesn't account for any crop rotation taking things out of cycle doing

929
01:18:32,010 --> 01:18:37,670
something else so that that's simply every year per grass using 25 pounds of

930
01:18:37,670 --> 01:18:44,110
nitrogen per year so and then the last section here is really just evaluation of

931
01:18:44,110 --> 01:18:47,350
wastewater treatment facilities and the things we're looking out there health

932
01:18:47,350 --> 01:18:52,730
and sanitation security again screening through head works the only facility that

933
01:18:52,730 --> 01:18:59,070
has a septage-receiving facility is Mizzoula. None of the other facilities would have a safe means

934
01:18:59,070 --> 01:19:04,670
of accepting, septage through a headwarp and separating any of those large screenings.

935
01:19:05,490 --> 01:19:15,150
Control of access. Again, authorization to haulers is a restriction. There's safety security

936
01:19:15,150 --> 01:19:19,390
restrictions that every wastewater treatment plant has to keep the public out. It's another person

937
01:19:19,390 --> 01:19:22,310
coming in and out of that safe area or those restricted areas.

938
01:19:23,230 --> 01:19:30,830
Also the potential upset of sceptage that isn't pre-treated is pretty detrimental to, or

939
01:19:30,830 --> 01:19:37,030
could be detrimental to plant upsets that would lead to permit violations, which is water

940
01:19:37,030 --> 01:19:38,590
quality violations is what those are.

941
01:19:42,260 --> 01:19:44,370
It's not only surface water but also groundwater on that.

942
01:19:44,610 --> 01:19:49,510
And then aging infrastructure, again, most of the facilities here that we talked about

943
01:19:50,490 --> 01:19:56,370
are threatened by any upset to the organic plant capacity and they're designed for reasonable

944
01:19:56,370 --> 01:20:01,210
growth of residential and commercial developments with the strength of waste, you're consuming

945
01:20:01,210 --> 01:20:06,370
that capacity at a much larger rate per gallon than you would with any residential strength

946
01:20:06,370 --> 01:20:13,050
of waste, additional requirements for treatment plant operation staff, there's additional

947
01:20:13,050 --> 01:20:28,730
You know, solves management, managing the receiving station, and then there's also lab facilities additional lab time analytical time to monitor and manage high strength waste and then again access management site access is limited.

948
01:20:29,090 --> 01:20:39,110
Most facilities are in fringe areas with residential areas, so you have to traverse city streets, a lot more turning movements and trucks that come in and out.

949
01:20:39,710 --> 01:20:43,910
and then permit limitations. I think we've kind of alluded to this on several things, but

950
01:20:45,010 --> 01:20:48,250
there are several documents out there and plans that have been put in place.

951
01:20:48,630 --> 01:20:53,750
Existing discharge permits are written around nutrient limits. They're either the Montana

952
01:20:53,750 --> 01:20:57,830
pollution discharge elimination system. Those are surface water discharges. So,

953
01:20:57,930 --> 01:21:03,690
Steven'sville, Hamilton, they operate under those permits. Groundwater pollution control system

954
01:21:03,690 --> 01:21:08,850
permits are what ground water discharging facilities like Corvallis operate under.

955
01:21:10,290 --> 01:21:14,110
And there's always the threat that future permits will be tightened to reduce nutrients

956
01:21:14,850 --> 01:21:19,590
in our waterways that threaten, you know, recreation for humans and aquatics.

957
01:21:19,970 --> 01:21:23,230
So a couple of things that have been put in place there, the bitter root nutrition protection

958
01:21:23,230 --> 01:21:29,530
plan, and then the bitter root, total maximum daily loads, TMDL management plan.

959
01:21:29,530 --> 01:21:36,130
There are 7 water bodies including portions of the river that are listed for impaired based

960
01:21:36,130 --> 01:21:43,470
on nutrient standards and can in next steps that we're going to go through here.

961
01:21:44,510 --> 01:21:46,430
There are some updates to the data that's here.

962
01:21:47,210 --> 01:21:52,230
Draft chapters will be provided to the city or excuse me of the county and then we can

963
01:21:52,230 --> 01:21:54,550
disseminate those to interest parties.

964
01:21:56,050 --> 01:22:01,470
This presentation really focuses on chapters one, two, and three of the PER, which is established

965
01:22:01,470 --> 01:22:02,670
as the need for the project.

966
01:22:03,410 --> 01:22:06,930
So the next step that we will go through is evaluation of alternatives.

967
01:22:07,350 --> 01:22:09,430
So this is no action alternative.

968
01:22:09,730 --> 01:22:14,610
What happens if status quo maintains, what are the impacts of that, what are the costs of

969
01:22:14,610 --> 01:22:17,870
that, what are the threats that could happen.

970
01:22:18,350 --> 01:22:22,610
And then we are going to look at several alternatives for regional treatment facilities.

971
01:22:22,610 --> 01:22:45,270
And then we talked about before of kind of how this will be a little bit of an allocate situation where we might have some liquid stream management for pre-treatment screening, you know, and then discharge of residential strength waste for secondary treatment within existing municipalities that could partner solid waste management is another thing for biosolids, dewatering, composting facilities, you know, PFOS considerations.

972
01:22:45,270 --> 01:22:51,530
So PFAS is one that obviously I should have mentioned up ahead for threats for both land

973
01:22:51,530 --> 01:22:54,530
app and treatment facilities.

974
01:22:55,110 --> 01:23:03,090
There are concerns with PFAS, which is an emerging contaminant, it binds to soils, it gets

975
01:23:03,090 --> 01:23:12,310
uptaken by plants, it has been found to then carry on through even animal consumption, whether

976
01:23:12,310 --> 01:23:17,470
there's dairy products or meat in the upper East Coast area.

977
01:23:17,590 --> 01:23:19,110
There's some restrictions there, so we'll look at that.

978
01:23:19,330 --> 01:23:21,030
And then look at solid waste management.

979
01:23:21,930 --> 01:23:23,970
So two more public meetings that'll take place.

980
01:23:24,850 --> 01:23:27,170
March 3rd and April 8th.

981
01:23:27,190 --> 01:23:29,110
I don't think we've set times in those yet, Chris,

982
01:23:29,290 --> 01:23:32,390
but there are placeholders on the calendars that we'll get.

983
01:23:33,090 --> 01:23:33,950
Schedules out to anybody.

984
01:23:34,910 --> 01:23:38,430
Like I said, important that if anybody that joined today,

985
01:23:38,430 --> 01:23:44,650
please sign up on the sign-in sheet. We haven't talked at a high level but we can

986
01:23:44,650 --> 01:23:49,050
generate kind of a newsletter-based update email that I can generate and

987
01:23:49,050 --> 01:23:53,370
send out before our next public meetings with the agenda and with the next

988
01:23:53,370 --> 01:23:58,050
public presentation so people can dive into that ahead of time. But if you have

989
01:23:58,050 --> 01:24:04,110
any questions my contact information is here. Like I said, if you reach out to

990
01:24:04,110 --> 01:24:10,270
myself, the next couple of meetings will be more involved with our treatment folks, which

991
01:24:10,270 --> 01:24:14,250
will be Ben Watson and Rico Lashley, I'll probably lead most of that, and I'll kind

992
01:24:14,250 --> 01:24:18,990
of be here guiding the meeting and facilitating, but yes, sir.

993
01:24:18,990 --> 01:24:19,390
Thank you, Aaron.

994
01:24:21,980 --> 01:24:26,180
I do have one general question that goes way, it starts way back before we even started

995
01:24:26,180 --> 01:24:27,460
talking about land apps.

996
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:36,620
When you were describing the future probabilities of septic permits needed per year, and I believe

997
01:24:36,620 --> 01:24:39,440
I believe I was hearing something like over 300 a year.

998
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:49,180
Now, to me, my mind goes like this and I see this more than most people because of my

999
01:24:49,180 --> 01:24:57,440
involvement with that and I'm just thinking about the game of monopoly and the monopoly

1000
01:24:57,440 --> 01:25:07,980
a fully board effect of 350 new septic systems in this county per year.

1001
01:25:08,820 --> 01:25:14,800
The density is like, think about if you are flying in and see in the Bitterwood Valley

1002
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:22,820
10 years from now, that's 3,500 new houses as an example or a possibility.

1003
01:25:22,820 --> 01:25:30,960
So, I'm just trying to visualize that 350 new septic a year and to try to wrap my brain

1004
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:31,520
around that.

1005
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:39,180
And so, what I'm coming to is this, is there some cliff notes that you can, from your,

1006
01:25:41,460 --> 01:25:47,700
like for instance, the information that you have that you want to send us and keep us

1007
01:25:47,700 --> 01:25:49,640
updated on this sheet here?

1008
01:25:50,420 --> 01:25:55,260
Is there data that we can maybe get into the newspaper that are cliff notes for the general

1009
01:25:55,260 --> 01:26:01,620
public to learn about, that would interest them and grab their attention, so they would

1010
01:26:01,620 --> 01:26:08,820
care enough about this to be proactive as the future comes so that they don't get side-swaped

1011
01:26:11,580 --> 01:26:13,060
by things happening?

1012
01:26:13,220 --> 01:26:17,500
And you and I have had little conversations about this, it's called being proactive instead

1013
01:26:17,500 --> 01:26:22,460
instead of reactive after dramatic decisions have been made, and it becomes life-changing

1014
01:26:22,460 --> 01:26:28,380
events for people, especially if it comes to subdivision things involving lots of septic

1015
01:26:28,380 --> 01:26:28,800
systems.

1016
01:26:29,540 --> 01:26:35,280
So I'm just trying to throw some general idea out there, could your information somehow

1017
01:26:36,120 --> 01:26:41,760
be extended to the general public, which I call cliff notes, for them to start to be aware

1018
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:49,400
of the upcoming expansion and probabilities that will happen in Rosallee County.

1019
01:26:49,780 --> 01:26:50,060
Thank you.

1020
01:26:50,940 --> 01:27:06,840
I don't want to speak for the commissioners, but I think one of the primary reasons why they wanted this project to be communicated versus via a story map was to be able to provide that information to the greater public without having to read a 300 page report.

1021
01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:16,920
So that was the intent of even today's presentation is really that anybody should be able to kind of read it and pick out the day till there's no except there's more detail in the chapters.

1022
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:28,380
I think the one thing that I think is important to realize is that the problem that this project is trying to grapple with is an existing.

1023
01:27:28,380 --> 01:27:32,540
We're trying to clarify that there isn't an existing issue with

1024
01:27:32,540 --> 01:27:36,860
septage treatment in Ravelli County currently and then looking at

1025
01:27:36,860 --> 01:27:41,040
historically what that projects to within a planning period to see if it

1026
01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:45,480
worsens gets better and obviously we're not a descending population so it's

1027
01:27:45,480 --> 01:27:49,160
likely going to get. It's going to end town where I think it's important to

1028
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:54,760
disrealize is the project focusing on septage treatment. It's separate from land

1029
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:58,140
use planning and sometimes there's a blurring of lines and using for

1030
01:27:58,140 --> 01:28:02,480
different things and that's really political direction but I think it's always

1031
01:28:02,480 --> 01:28:06,720
something to be mindful of utility projects and how they're politics. No, I never.

1032
01:28:29,450 --> 01:28:37,170
Yeah, it's a link right now that anybody anybody can link to. I think I put it

1033
01:28:37,170 --> 01:28:40,330
might have been as non-searchable so if you did a Google search for

1034
01:28:40,330 --> 01:28:44,930
Rivali County Septage P.E.R. I don't think it would find this yet but I could

1035
01:28:44,930 --> 01:28:50,710
change that to searchable to. So anybody can search and find it as well. And then just going through

1036
01:28:50,710 --> 01:28:57,590
the next meetings, I guess, what the hierarchy of our mindset was is that this link in this story map

1037
01:28:57,590 --> 01:29:02,630
will stay consistent throughout. We'll just peel off the headings from public hearing number one,

1038
01:29:03,070 --> 01:29:07,110
and we'll just add public hearing number two in the titles below. So the whole thing will be there,

1039
01:29:07,150 --> 01:29:11,010
the whole environment will just build this story of the project through.

1040
01:29:11,010 --> 01:29:14,850
It's the only way I found out about this meeting, for instance, because I checked the agenda

1041
01:29:14,850 --> 01:29:15,490
all the time.

1042
01:29:16,030 --> 01:29:16,630
Most people don't.

1043
01:29:16,870 --> 01:29:16,910
Yep.

1044
01:29:17,150 --> 01:29:23,890
And so, and then sometimes there or in the legal, the legal's in the paper is another place

1045
01:29:23,890 --> 01:29:24,270
to find.

1046
01:29:24,630 --> 01:29:26,450
So, not everybody's reading the legal.

1047
01:29:26,490 --> 01:29:26,650
No.

1048
01:29:27,070 --> 01:29:27,810
Chris, did you know?

1049
01:29:28,090 --> 01:29:29,630
I was just going to check on that.

1050
01:29:29,890 --> 01:29:34,490
I missed it at the beginning, this public hearing force, that this treatment and composting preliminary

1051
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:40,530
engineering report was posted in the newspaper of record Wednesday, January 8th of 25, and

1052
01:29:40,530 --> 01:29:42,890
on Wednesday, January 15th, 25th.

1053
01:29:42,890 --> 01:29:43,270
Thank you.

1054
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:47,900
And with that, is there any other public comment?

1055
01:29:52,860 --> 01:29:53,740
Roger DeHon again.

1056
01:29:54,180 --> 01:29:56,420
I just want to throw my 10 cents in

1057
01:29:56,420 --> 01:29:59,800
because I've been tracking this issue for decades here.

1058
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:28,820
This county knowing that this day was coming. And it's a tricky business. It's a really tricky business, both from a political aspect and from an engineering aspect. Because, and we have this whole private property thing, and we have people with successful businesses that are currently disposing on the land. And it's, I think, going to be really, really hard to stop that with an ordinance.

1059
01:30:28,820 --> 01:30:34,780
You know, the state sanctions it, if it's done correctly, it's been going on for decades.

1060
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:39,800
There have been incidents of, you know, spillages and that kind of stuff.

1061
01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:44,700
I don't think there's ever been cases of people getting sick from it.

1062
01:30:45,500 --> 01:30:52,040
You know, that'd be really hard to verify, but so, you know, there's a lot of balls that

1063
01:30:52,040 --> 01:30:54,640
were juggling here that we're trying to keep going.

1064
01:30:54,640 --> 01:31:04,960
And so my vision for what it's worth, the ideal situation would be to design a system that's highly flexible.

1065
01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:20,300
I think that as time goes on, the land application is just going to naturally kind of slow down and decrease because of its inconvenience and the problem of starting new ones.

1066
01:31:20,300 --> 01:31:27,400
It would be really great if we could design some sort of a system that the cost per gallon

1067
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:29,740
wasn't hugely different.

1068
01:31:30,220 --> 01:31:34,760
I mean, you know, that's something that's hard to judge, but so if we could kind of, you

1069
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:40,620
know, maybe not be building a Cadillac here, but more like a Chevy or something that, you

1070
01:31:40,620 --> 01:31:46,140
know, might be affordable and entice people to use it because it's going to be available

1071
01:31:46,140 --> 01:31:53,020
all year round and it's going to be easy to get to and then also the the

1072
01:31:53,020 --> 01:31:58,580
flexibility of the the amount it's you know clearly they were guessing at

1073
01:31:58,580 --> 01:32:03,360
the population and all that kind of stuff and so maybe there's a way that we

1074
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:07,740
could design it so that there's like increments that we can start out relatively

1075
01:32:07,740 --> 01:32:14,520
small but it's going to be easy to add to it as time goes on as it becomes more

1076
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:22,740
popular. I don't envy these guys at all because there's a lot, you know, to design a perfect

1077
01:32:22,740 --> 01:32:29,160
system that really works, starting in a county that's never had a history of it. It's a challenge,

1078
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:35,860
and my hat's off to you guys, and I think that if there's anything that we can do as a county to

1079
01:32:35,860 --> 01:32:42,160
help them and give them direction we should, because right now it's just sort of like the scattered

1080
01:32:42,160 --> 01:32:47,280
gun thing like, you know, yeah, there's these hundred different variables that we got to take into

1081
01:32:47,280 --> 01:32:53,920
consideration. And that's hard. So thank you for what you're doing. And yeah, we'll try to keep

1082
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:56,300
it going in the right direction. Thank you, Roger.

1083
01:33:00,820 --> 01:33:04,860
Skip Chisholm. So what Roger's talking about is

1084
01:33:05,860 --> 01:33:15,320
in the word flexible is an SUV that's multiple use instead of a sports car or a limousine.

1085
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:37,660
and so that's your that's your billy wick. But meanwhile if there's going to ever be anything attached to this that's going to require whether there has to be a mill levy attached to it or anything that would be a financial burden on the county as early as possible.

1086
01:33:37,660 --> 01:33:43,120
It's things like it'd be nice for more many people as possible to know it so that they could

1087
01:33:43,620 --> 01:33:49,940
They could absorb and decide in their mind. Yes, I live in this amazing place and and I need to

1088
01:33:49,940 --> 01:33:58,580
be part of it and so that they could get used to that as a possible future thing because a lot of people just be on

1089
01:33:58,580 --> 01:34:07,140
Well, no, I'm against it and anymore. I'm not spending any more money. Meanwhile, it may be advantageous for them to do so for the future of their families

1090
01:34:07,140 --> 01:34:12,620
and what I call the statistical privilege of living in Ravalli County.

1091
01:34:13,420 --> 01:34:13,940
Thanks.

1092
01:34:14,420 --> 01:34:15,260
Thank you, Skip.

1093
01:34:15,460 --> 01:34:17,640
Is there anyone else that needs to, would like to comment?

1094
01:34:19,240 --> 01:34:21,420
And with that, we will close the public hearing.

1095
01:34:21,960 --> 01:34:22,760
Thank you for coming.

1096
01:34:22,900 --> 01:34:23,020
Thank you.

1097
01:34:23,180 --> 01:34:23,680
Thank you.

1098
01:34:23,900 --> 01:34:24,220
I will.

1099
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:24,780
Thank you very much.

1100
01:34:24,780 --> 01:34:25,160
Hello.

1101
01:34:25,540 --> 01:34:27,560
Oh, wait a minute.

1102
01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:29,040
Sorry.

1103
01:34:29,740 --> 01:34:29,940
Sorry.

1104
01:34:29,940 --> 01:34:30,020
Sorry.

1105
01:34:30,220 --> 01:34:34,720
This is Jim O'Lexy with TLC Patriot.

1106
01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:39,840
and I was just talking with one to ask Aaron.

1107
01:34:41,660 --> 01:34:43,720
You guys, I was there at that first meeting

1108
01:34:44,140 --> 01:34:47,540
when this came together, talking about the proposal

1109
01:34:47,540 --> 01:34:51,260
I gave up for Alice Bell in Flathead Valley,

1110
01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:53,620
I had county, I guess.

1111
01:34:54,540 --> 01:34:56,580
Is there an open window, or when is that?

1112
01:34:56,740 --> 01:35:00,280
I see the public caring for developing, evaluating alternatives.

1113
01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:04,640
Is there a time window when we can submit for those alternatives?

1114
01:35:05,620 --> 01:35:07,220
So Jim, you're on our list.

1115
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:10,160
We just haven't got to writing that narrative yet.

1116
01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:12,400
So it'll be an open evaluation.

1117
01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:18,440
This planning process isn't going to go through a solicitation process for specific equipment

1118
01:35:18,440 --> 01:35:18,840
or vendors.

1119
01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:25,240
It's going to list a treatment process that's viable and how it could be implemented in different

1120
01:35:25,240 --> 01:35:25,700
locations.

1121
01:35:25,700 --> 01:35:29,080
and so it wouldn't be sole source to anybody

1122
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:32,780
or select specific manufacturers vendors at this time.

1123
01:35:33,980 --> 01:35:38,780
Yeah, so I'm speaking on behalf of our wastewater plant

1124
01:35:38,780 --> 01:35:41,360
or NEPO that we're actually going to be building

1125
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:42,380
this next year in buildings.

1126
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:48,260
You know, I just like to talk with you more about it.

1127
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:50,760
What that means.

1128
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:56,780
And the other technology that we have to utilize it.

1129
01:35:58,660 --> 01:36:02,860
So I just want to make sure I didn't miss a window first submission of technology

1130
01:36:02,860 --> 01:36:03,920
or alternatives.

1131
01:36:05,540 --> 01:36:06,020
No.

1132
01:36:07,080 --> 01:36:07,760
Thank you, James.

1133
01:36:08,660 --> 01:36:08,800
Yep.

1134
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:09,360
Thank you.

1135
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:18,340
Thank you all for coming.

1136
01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:20,040
Thanks, everyone.

1137
01:36:21,660 --> 01:36:22,040
Thanks, Eric.

1138
01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:22,840
Thank you.

1139
01:36:23,180 --> 01:36:23,880
Thank you.

1140
01:36:23,940 --> 01:36:25,300
Thank you.

1141
01:36:25,300 --> 01:36:26,980
I want to pause until 1.30 circle.

1142
01:36:27,220 --> 01:36:28,520
Pause until 1.30, yes.

1143
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:39,320
OK, OK, we reconvene for a discussion regarding

1144
01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:45,640
a bit of humane association and their proposal to us.

1145
01:36:48,660 --> 01:36:52,460
So these came from August and then you met in December

1146
01:36:52,460 --> 01:36:56,000
and said, continue and schedule when the county attorney

1147
01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:57,020
ensure it could be here.

1148
01:36:57,640 --> 01:36:57,980
Yes.

1149
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:00,480
That's what I got.

1150
01:37:31,860 --> 01:37:37,960
I'm kind of I'm at a place where we kind of need to have a relationship with these guys

1151
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:44,000
for a place to put confiscated animals and whatnot.

1152
01:37:44,700 --> 01:37:52,080
I think part of their proposal was overreaching a little bit when it came to medical patients

1153
01:37:52,080 --> 01:38:01,860
and things like that so I think I think we it's a discussion that we need to have and an item number

1154
01:38:01,860 --> 01:38:05,520
one I mean it raised a flag to me right off the bat where it's we're

1155
01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:11,500
basically responsible

1156
01:38:11,500 --> 01:38:17,480
they're they're taking animals in whether it's law enforcement or revolving county residents and

1157
01:38:17,480 --> 01:38:24,620
not distinguishing that will be will be responsible for those animals that we bring in that yeah we're

1158
01:38:24,620 --> 01:38:29,520
funding, right? That would basically be anybody who drops off an animal. Anything.

1159
01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:34,540
Yeah, we don't

1160
01:38:34,540 --> 01:38:42,280
want to go there. Right. So that first paragraph, I'm sorry, paragraph number one, ended at the

1161
01:38:42,280 --> 01:38:43,540
work forcement.

1162
01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:53,720
Is there any other situations where we have an animal that's brought in by somebody

1163
01:38:53,720 --> 01:39:00,620
other than the law enforcement through vicious dog or otherwise through any of that stuff? I don't know.

1164
01:39:05,620 --> 01:39:05,980
I

1165
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:12,900
don't doubt there's other animals dropped out, but I don't know that. I mean, that's what

1166
01:39:16,420 --> 01:39:17,380
we get at all all the time.

1167
01:39:17,820 --> 01:39:18,760
I mean, I just didn't know.

1168
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:20,260
It's just a straight dog down the cottage.

1169
01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:25,640
And I don't think we want to, I was just wondering through any sort of law enforcement, county attorney issues.

1170
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:32,380
We don't have anybody else bring animals to the from the county's perspective anybody but law enforcement

1171
01:39:53,380 --> 01:39:54,780
Yes, in

1172
01:40:01,630 --> 01:40:02,430
the back of this

1173
01:40:26,260 --> 01:40:34,280
I didn't like number two. I mean, what's this we tried the dog licensing and it was an

1174
01:40:34,280 --> 01:40:38,580
object failure. Now we're saying. Well, that's not what we said to him when we were in the meeting.

1175
01:40:38,920 --> 01:40:51,600
Yeah, there's a recall the meeting they proposed a licensing thing that they would manage and they would

1176
01:40:51,600 --> 01:40:53,180
to use that as a revenue source.

1177
01:40:53,420 --> 01:40:56,520
A voluntary licensing program.

1178
01:40:56,960 --> 01:41:00,480
Right, and who's going to do the licensing here at the county?

1179
01:41:01,140 --> 01:41:02,740
There is no county licensing.

1180
01:41:03,120 --> 01:41:06,400
They read number two, so we would be selling dog licensing.

1181
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:09,200
No, sorry, I don't mean to get it.

1182
01:41:10,020 --> 01:41:13,060
This would not require a sell dog licensing system.

1183
01:41:15,980 --> 01:41:18,740
So a system in county would pay more registration

1184
01:41:18,740 --> 01:41:23,420
There's complaints in selling doggo because the ordinance number 46 has no doubt

1185
01:41:23,420 --> 01:41:23,740
license.

1186
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:24,760
They did.

1187
01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:28,620
I was reading one of their drives.

1188
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:29,600
Yeah, it's a contract.

1189
01:41:30,140 --> 01:41:33,900
So you're agreeing that you'll assist in a program that doesn't have to

1190
01:41:36,980 --> 01:41:37,820
be for

1191
01:41:40,180 --> 01:41:40,700
conversation.

1192
01:41:43,090 --> 01:41:45,790
If you want to sell them to the shelter, I'm looking great with that.

1193
01:41:45,890 --> 01:41:47,230
That's what the proposal was.

1194
01:41:47,290 --> 01:41:51,830
As I recall, that was the proposal was that they would sell them at the shelter.

1195
01:42:05,130 --> 01:42:11,790
You got to give him a minute and it comes eventually but he do got to let it sink in.

1196
01:42:12,590 --> 01:42:16,530
Do you know any of my want to get ready to do it sometimes flying dog objects go that

1197
01:42:18,110 --> 01:42:18,530
way?

1198
01:42:19,330 --> 01:42:21,690
I'll give him some crayons don't get into it.

1199
01:42:24,100 --> 01:42:29,500
I guess at this point, we can always, if or when we get to the registration, we can

1200
01:42:29,500 --> 01:42:34,520
always do either a separate, and maybe it, I don't know, but that's the only thing

1201
01:42:34,520 --> 01:42:40,380
we did is they said, it seemed like initially they were pushing for a registration.

1202
01:42:41,320 --> 01:42:45,860
We said we're not going to do a mandatory, and they said, well, we would be willing to

1203
01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:53,240
assist or bait, not even assist, it sounded like to me they were offering to run the

1204
01:42:53,240 --> 01:42:55,560
the voluntary registration program.

1205
01:42:55,660 --> 01:43:00,780
And we put the term voluntary and after with B.R.

1206
01:43:01,000 --> 01:43:03,620
B.J. will assist the county with voluntary

1207
01:43:03,620 --> 01:43:05,300
normal registration for points.

1208
01:43:08,180 --> 01:43:11,480
I still think it doesn't allow us to go on.

1209
01:43:11,580 --> 01:43:15,020
As I know, are they as systemists?

1210
01:43:15,220 --> 01:43:16,520
Like if not, how do you do it?

1211
01:43:17,180 --> 01:43:18,440
I'm okay to get it out.

1212
01:43:18,780 --> 01:43:19,200
I

1213
01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:24,140
think that's my share.

1214
01:43:29,720 --> 01:43:36,980
If there was a program, it would be about how to run it over there and find that.

1215
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:39,780
What sort of program did you modify the street?

1216
01:43:43,410 --> 01:43:43,790
Would

1217
01:43:48,460 --> 01:43:53,460
they need your authority to implement this voluntary program?

1218
01:43:54,480 --> 01:43:55,620
I mean, you guys?

1219
01:43:55,800 --> 01:43:55,980
Yes.

1220
01:43:55,980 --> 01:43:56,120
Yes.

1221
01:44:02,470 --> 01:44:10,590
Why would they need our voluntary well depends on what you call it if you're going

1222
01:44:10,590 --> 01:44:17,790
to call it a Ravalli County Animal Registration. I would say they probably do need our

1223
01:44:17,790 --> 01:44:23,970
participate if they want to call it a better humane association I guess depends on how

1224
01:44:23,970 --> 01:44:42,530
and how it's pushed. They could help pet owners with the dog tags, vaccination records on the dog, and charge for that fee, and there's a lot of different ways it could go.

1225
01:44:42,530 --> 01:44:42,670
Okay.

1226
01:44:47,990 --> 01:44:49,990
Without it even necessarily being a license.

1227
01:44:57,530 --> 01:44:57,630
Yeah.

1228
01:44:57,850 --> 01:44:58,130
I agree.

1229
01:44:58,570 --> 01:44:58,870
Thank you.

1230
01:45:48,460 --> 01:45:56,460
What we've found was that contribution ended up being $350 a day based on the number of days

1231
01:45:56,460 --> 01:45:59,960
We're spending there. That's why we went to the flat day rate.

1232
01:46:00,420 --> 01:46:09,000
Yeah, and we had to change it from a contribution to a contract because of the tax funding of non-profit organizations.

1233
01:46:09,100 --> 01:46:12,180
So we have to do it under a contract scenario.

1234
01:46:12,460 --> 01:46:18,740
Right. And I think it went from like 20 to 40. I'm not sure if it could do increase in what they want.

1235
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:31,720
Okay, and it could be a flat fee or it could be a data fee, it's all on contract, I'm just suggesting a flat fee would be an annual fee or a semi-annual fee, however.

1236
01:46:32,220 --> 01:46:33,400
X dollars for one year.

1237
01:46:33,840 --> 01:46:34,060
Okay.

1238
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:38,080
And then every dog in the sheriff's office takes their authority pay before.

1239
01:46:39,890 --> 01:46:45,910
And we have the number there as far as having the food taken and the food taken.

1240
01:46:57,370 --> 01:47:07,270
They had some stats, but and I'm not sure with, okay, stray animals brought in impounded

1241
01:47:07,270 --> 01:47:09,690
animal, bro, I don't know what that means.

1242
01:47:10,250 --> 01:47:15,870
it's brought in by law enforcement 35 in 2024 that

1243
01:47:19,490 --> 01:47:22,690
was as as of July of 2024 so

1244
01:47:24,930 --> 01:47:28,210
you could see we ran these numbers back in the day it was close to when I first

1245
01:47:28,210 --> 01:47:34,370
got on when we were making a $40,000 contribution and we looked at and said for

1246
01:47:34,370 --> 01:47:42,670
26 animals brought in and it was something like 87 nights or dog days there

1247
01:47:42,670 --> 01:47:44,590
and why

1248
01:47:52,270 --> 01:47:55,250
did you consider that we could simplify a barrier at three?

1249
01:47:59,230 --> 01:47:59,470
Yes.

1250
01:48:05,260 --> 01:48:09,300
Would that require them to submit a invoice so we have a paper trail?

1251
01:48:11,550 --> 01:48:12,310
I would think so.

1252
01:48:12,690 --> 01:48:18,210
Okay. And is that going to be a flat rate or per day per dog or?

1253
01:48:20,430 --> 01:48:20,990
I

1254
01:48:25,090 --> 01:48:31,350
guess I would like to see us maybe add a couple bucks onto the day rate and get rid of

1255
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:37,960
damage to the facility caused by animals in there.

1256
01:48:37,960 --> 01:48:41,240
and just offer up, I mean the $1.50 per vaccine,

1257
01:48:41,400 --> 01:48:45,000
I can't imagine they're doing a lot of vaccinations for them,

1258
01:48:45,020 --> 01:48:49,800
but it seems like if we could just get to a straight $35 a day,

1259
01:48:50,020 --> 01:48:54,200
$1.50 a vaccine, we can track that, that's a metric we can see,

1260
01:48:55,100 --> 01:48:59,540
and make that the fee schedule and not have anything else in there.

1261
01:49:01,620 --> 01:49:05,140
So, yeah, I think that's a fair way to,

1262
01:49:15,460 --> 01:49:16,740
so there might be an owner of this.

1263
01:49:28,680 --> 01:49:36,420
I was just wondering how many vaccinations they get per animal is it just all wise because a dollar 50 is not that seems

1264
01:49:36,420 --> 01:49:41,620
relatively inexpensive to me to administer a vaccine for a dollar 50

1265
01:49:42,400 --> 01:49:43,440
unless they're doing

1266
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:54,380
27 vaccines, I don't I don't know if it yeah, I just don't know if a vaccine per animal is you typically one or if they're giving them like three

1267
01:49:54,380 --> 01:49:55,860
when they come in or

1268
01:49:55,860 --> 01:50:12,400
But either way that seems relatively inexpensive at about 50, but where you see where it can get concerning is any necessary veterinary care or damage to the facility that we're responsible for.

1269
01:50:34,540 --> 01:50:40,620
What is the they're talking about animals brought in by law enforcement and seized animals

1270
01:50:40,620 --> 01:50:46,100
that's through some sort of court like animal cruelty or their your order and somebody

1271
01:50:46,100 --> 01:50:50,900
They need to use their animal pursuant to coordinates 46, they have identified.

1272
01:50:53,540 --> 01:51:00,840
Yes, it is almost always going to be an animal that's been a vicious dog involved in a bite

1273
01:51:01,400 --> 01:51:02,260
on that large.

1274
01:51:02,480 --> 01:51:03,360
They can't be found.

1275
01:51:03,580 --> 01:51:04,940
Those sort of things when they're brought in.

1276
01:51:07,840 --> 01:51:14,260
And we have in here the responsibility of the party to reimburse us, meaning the county.

1277
01:51:15,100 --> 01:51:22,420
So really it's it should just be everywhere. I think we just change it to be your going to county if

1278
01:51:25,100 --> 01:51:26,200
you're good with that.

1279
01:51:28,490 --> 01:51:31,990
I don't really think there's any differences between

1280
01:51:44,810 --> 01:51:50,110
So that would be just us knowing how much I think is what you mean, right?

1281
01:51:50,890 --> 01:51:56,030
That would be just the prosecutor knowing how much that number is.

1282
01:51:56,030 --> 01:52:01,130
So we didn't have to come, the bills don't have to come to our office to do that.

1283
01:52:01,770 --> 01:52:03,990
We do that in any case with restitution.

1284
01:52:05,470 --> 01:52:05,990
And

1285
01:52:10,700 --> 01:52:15,120
those animals would still be brought in by law enforcement if they came in.

1286
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:20,960
So you can almost get rid of everything besides just that top then or not even distinguish

1287
01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:26,680
or differentiate between right and I think that's totally agree.

1288
01:52:27,300 --> 01:52:32,680
Yeah, but we just want to make sure we don't have law enforcement where it's all it's it's it's

1289
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:34,880
for Valley County Sheriff's Office. Yes. Yeah.

1290
01:52:39,140 --> 01:52:40,740
I guess Sheriff do you see any

1291
01:52:40,740 --> 01:52:44,800
difference between where they're saying others animals brought in for

1292
01:52:44,800 --> 01:52:50,060
impounding and there's animals brought in their seas? They're they're all house the

1293
01:52:50,060 --> 01:53:00,060
saying thank you so I think we can why are they it's kind of straight so they they talk about

1294
01:53:00,060 --> 01:53:07,240
animals brought in by law enforcement at this $30 a day then down below and they're talking about

1295
01:53:07,240 --> 01:53:14,500
building the county attorney's office they're saying statements for costs incurred for services

1296
01:53:14,500 --> 01:53:21,700
is food, shelter, you see that there it almost seems like there or

1297
01:53:23,720 --> 01:53:24,400
kind of getting rid

1298
01:53:24,400 --> 01:53:28,380
of that and basically what would you be okay with and what I would advocate for is just

1299
01:53:28,380 --> 01:53:34,660
a straight dollar a day for any dog brought in by sheriff's office whether it's county

1300
01:53:34,660 --> 01:53:40,080
attorney related or otherwise yeah so then number

1301
01:53:48,180 --> 01:53:50,520
six then is what you're talking about

1302
01:53:50,520 --> 01:54:00,540
where they say yeah all the costs including veterinary food etc. Yeah I

1303
01:54:02,980 --> 01:54:03,140
just

1304
01:54:03,140 --> 01:54:06,840
thought it'd be easier if they sent you through you know across directly the

1305
01:54:06,840 --> 01:54:12,900
chargers so it was easier not to get lost between sending over here go to these

1306
01:54:12,900 --> 01:54:19,380
claims process and then ship out over there we can all we would want to know is

1307
01:54:19,380 --> 01:54:24,540
from Janet for example what's the number what I think we should know from

1308
01:54:24,540 --> 01:54:31,260
them is have some sort of tracking though on here's dog number one this many days dog number two

1309
01:54:31,260 --> 01:54:38,900
instead of we had 47 dog days this month I think it should be tracked by perdog that would make

1310
01:54:38,900 --> 01:54:46,160
it easy for you to go back and sending dog number 22 and the number of days that they were in shelter four.

1311
01:54:46,160 --> 01:54:55,580
So they used to do it as they had just a flip board of basic intake forms that had been

1312
01:54:55,580 --> 01:55:00,040
dropped a dog off and that, and that, and that, and we begin to build that form out.

1313
01:55:02,250 --> 01:55:08,710
They should read, I think they should read that system and supply that with the invoice.

1314
01:55:09,850 --> 01:55:13,370
And that way, if you start getting rushed from Steve's book, please, or hand with the police department.

1315
01:55:14,890 --> 01:55:15,290
Right.

1316
01:55:20,010 --> 01:55:27,700
I think that was initially what happened is at one point then early on we started getting

1317
01:55:27,700 --> 01:55:31,780
built for dog days and we're like, well, what is this dog?

1318
01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:35,480
I don't know, we just had 87 dog days in here.

1319
01:55:36,000 --> 01:55:37,580
So I think that's it.

1320
01:55:37,640 --> 01:55:38,260
That is important.

1321
01:55:38,260 --> 01:55:47,380
So we just put in itemized, yeah, I got, I'm in here about itemizing that by, by animal

1322
01:55:47,380 --> 01:55:50,280
and made a note of that.

1323
01:55:53,440 --> 01:56:00,620
So for whatever reason they separated in their proposal here, those dogs that are

1324
01:56:00,620 --> 01:56:02,000
impounded and

1325
01:56:04,720 --> 01:56:08,220
those dogs that are the subject of criminal investigation which I'm inferring

1326
01:56:08,220 --> 01:56:16,540
to mean post dog bite and on the post dog bite ones they've added things like food and

1327
01:56:16,540 --> 01:56:26,330
shelter and damage by aggressive animals that's because we want to shoot everything out.

1328
01:56:52,110 --> 01:57:00,550
So do we want that left separate or is it just we're going to propose into pay the $35 a day.

1329
01:57:00,950 --> 01:57:02,310
I think it needs to be a flat fee.

1330
01:57:03,490 --> 01:57:06,810
For all of it, don't distinguish, don't break it down.

1331
01:57:06,810 --> 01:57:07,590
number

1332
01:57:15,870 --> 01:57:21,810
seven I can rework into the our responsibility to pay but not

1333
01:57:25,080 --> 01:57:25,880
15 days

1334
01:57:25,880 --> 01:57:30,980
that's not realistic in the claims process 30 30 days

1335
01:58:00,170 --> 01:58:07,010
So that's a cost of business and in addition to the flat fee, you're going to pay me for every day or dollar or bail or whatever.

1336
01:58:07,090 --> 01:58:07,530
Yeah, whatever.

1337
01:58:07,830 --> 01:58:08,230
Yeah.

1338
01:58:09,390 --> 01:58:10,350
Um, smart.

1339
01:58:10,510 --> 01:58:11,110
I had it already.

1340
01:58:11,530 --> 01:58:13,530
I bailed the table and that stuff was great.

1341
01:58:13,850 --> 01:58:13,950
Yeah.

1342
01:58:14,310 --> 01:58:15,190
That's the idea.

1343
01:58:17,270 --> 01:58:23,070
Which is why I proposed and I just threw 35 out maybe it's 32 or 30.

1344
01:58:23,430 --> 01:58:26,550
But just add a little bit on that day rate.

1345
01:58:27,730 --> 01:58:32,230
to compensate for these other things, and that way it's just really simple, there is no,

1346
01:58:34,550 --> 01:58:42,230
then there's no discretion as to or subjectivity like well yeah the dog bit the

1347
01:58:42,230 --> 01:58:46,110
wire and bent it but you really need to replace the whole panel for the damage.

1348
01:59:06,610 --> 01:59:17,710
$30 before the employee that was discolored would have been good to have them here to understand

1349
01:59:17,710 --> 01:59:19,030
a few of these things.

1350
01:59:19,450 --> 01:59:24,610
The number 8, I think I know what the concern is with a large scale because we've done

1351
01:59:31,570 --> 01:59:46,820
I'm not sure why the upon surrender is of the animals in their soul discretion they can do whatever. I'm not sure why that's in there because they want it only in the large cases or that it

1352
01:59:48,080 --> 01:59:52,140
I was going to say is that even legal to sign that over and that seems kind of strange

1353
01:59:52,140 --> 01:59:54,100
that we could just say they're now your animals.

1354
01:59:54,900 --> 01:59:59,040
At some point the people are going to lose their right to the animal back.

1355
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:09,620
That's not right away. I think the only, that would be up to the court, right? Generally a court thing, and we had some, I'm thinking at large, we had, I'm

1356
02:00:14,680 --> 02:00:18,230
going to determine who, you know,

1357
02:00:21,340 --> 02:00:39,360
they can only, I guess that's two, because we've done this before, we've, um, 67 casts, wouldn't that just be 30 times 67? Yeah. Yeah, and that's what I'm wondering, do we want to say what?

1358
02:00:39,360 --> 02:00:46,820
well, it's, there's extra funding, we can make this green really simple.

1359
02:00:46,940 --> 02:00:53,560
Every animal we bring is $35 a day, we'll pay it every quarter.

1360
02:00:53,840 --> 02:00:58,080
The only reason that I wonder if the large scale was there because they sit, they talk

1361
02:00:58,080 --> 02:01:03,760
about large scale, our animal in an end with, including youth in Asia, is that a space

1362
02:01:03,760 --> 02:01:09,660
issue that are just the animals are not bad at shape, I don't know why they, and that's

1363
02:01:09,660 --> 02:01:13,200
That's why I wasn't sure if they met this to everybody it's empowered as soon as they're

1364
02:01:13,200 --> 02:01:18,500
surrendered they can do what they want with them or that is a court issue.

1365
02:01:19,620 --> 02:01:26,580
I didn't like, well, we already think we'll require just over the funding, I reckon they

1366
02:01:26,580 --> 02:01:30,420
would be a lot better word, more appropriate, they'd have to demonstrate it was plighting

1367
02:01:30,420 --> 02:01:31,260
lights in the game.

1368
02:01:31,440 --> 02:01:33,660
Take require out and put request in.

1369
02:01:35,040 --> 02:01:39,160
Yeah, there's a thought they could request it and like the horse thing we might say, oh yeah

1370
02:01:39,160 --> 02:01:40,880
We need to pay some rent out of the fair.

1371
02:01:42,660 --> 02:01:43,540
So we'll request.

1372
02:01:44,060 --> 02:01:44,520
We will.

1373
02:01:44,820 --> 02:01:45,240
Yeah.

1374
02:01:46,620 --> 02:01:48,350
And we'll charge them rent for the fairgrounds.

1375
02:01:48,860 --> 02:01:49,280
We need them.

1376
02:01:49,820 --> 02:01:50,820
That's a great idea.

1377
02:01:51,000 --> 02:01:51,100
It's a great idea.

1378
02:01:51,460 --> 02:01:52,420
To be honest, that's fair.

1379
02:01:52,580 --> 02:01:52,980
Yeah.

1380
02:01:53,480 --> 02:01:55,280
If we're bringing 25 out of horses.

1381
02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:56,040
Well, yeah.

1382
02:01:56,480 --> 02:01:56,900
Today.

1383
02:01:57,260 --> 02:01:58,960
It's going to cost a lot more $30 a day.

1384
02:01:59,680 --> 02:02:00,680
And they're not.

1385
02:02:00,800 --> 02:02:02,780
And they don't have the facility to take care of it.

1386
02:02:02,940 --> 02:02:03,080
So.

1387
02:02:05,460 --> 02:02:05,880
Bill.

1388
02:02:06,300 --> 02:02:09,700
Is it your intention to rewrite this and track changes?

1389
02:02:09,700 --> 02:02:18,060
We'll get there. Yeah, no, I'm just saying and then we can invite them so they can see their version of our version. We'll send it to them. Yeah

1390
02:02:21,620 --> 02:02:28,900
At some point we'll schedule a meeting and they come and we'll right. Okay, because Greg's track track and my changes.

1391
02:02:42,080 --> 02:02:42,520
Yeah

1392
02:02:42,520 --> 02:02:42,720
It's

1393
02:02:55,620 --> 02:02:56,820
a puppy male type case.

1394
02:02:56,820 --> 02:03:01,800
We still, I think, have to defer to a court before we're given permission to euthanize

1395
02:03:01,800 --> 02:03:02,520
and such.

1396
02:03:04,410 --> 02:03:08,410
They would truly have to be like in a band and

1397
02:03:14,080 --> 02:03:15,960
who would make the determination that

1398
02:03:15,960 --> 02:03:20,600
you can return to the office to put it in a dollar to get over the annual band and forward.

1399
02:03:22,640 --> 02:03:26,920
I mean, I don't know if there's anything I'd be able to do to that.

1400
02:03:27,300 --> 02:03:28,480
Yeah, I don't think so.

1401
02:03:28,480 --> 02:03:34,920
like too far into the weeds for it is. Like on a large scale incident that they could request

1402
02:03:34,920 --> 02:03:40,080
additional emergency funding for the county and that's really all that probably needs to be done.

1403
02:03:40,280 --> 02:03:45,620
Yeah, we can simplify that down. I mean that's probably the area we're using. So an animal gets

1404
02:03:45,620 --> 02:03:52,280
hauled in and it doesn't claim to be the 15 days that we did whatever then it's considered. I don't

1405
02:03:52,280 --> 02:03:56,760
know what we need to get hauled with that. And it seemed like when we had the agreement with Noah's

1406
02:03:56,760 --> 02:04:01,120
out there for a while. I think we put that in there that we would pay up to

1407
02:04:01,640 --> 02:04:08,000
X amount of days so that way we didn't get this like you know 60-day bill for

1408
02:04:08,000 --> 02:04:13,180
a dog that's been sitting there and I don't know what the

1409
02:04:13,180 --> 02:04:16,280
legalities are on that but if the difference is 10 days.

1410
02:04:18,970 --> 02:04:19,930
So what happened like

1411
02:04:19,930 --> 02:04:25,770
let's see you pick a dog up there's three hundred bucks. If you pick a dog up and we

1412
02:04:25,770 --> 02:04:32,310
take it down there and owners like this dog's been in pain I really don't want it how long before it

1413
02:04:33,090 --> 02:04:40,310
is there some sort of authority that says the dogs abandon that the pound that humane association

1414
02:04:40,310 --> 02:04:45,150
can adopt so you've nice whatever pose

1415
02:04:47,520 --> 02:04:50,720
something to you okay thank

1416
02:04:52,830 --> 02:04:56,590
you thanks Dylan yeah I think

1417
02:04:56,590 --> 02:04:58,550
I think Noah's art, like, have you seen that?

1418
02:04:58,690 --> 02:05:00,390
I mean, that might be something to just be aware of

1419
02:05:00,390 --> 02:05:04,290
where we came, because we, I think it's about 14 days on that.

1420
02:05:08,800 --> 02:05:12,480
We'll see what, where that line of authority lies

1421
02:05:12,480 --> 02:05:16,740
that, or it can't be found, or they're abandoned, or whatever.

1422
02:05:17,800 --> 02:05:19,100
Like you say, it just can't go on forever.

1423
02:05:19,660 --> 02:05:24,380
Then it would revert, like they're suggesting to do as you wish,

1424
02:05:24,560 --> 02:05:29,080
adopt, house, utilize, whatever's appropriate for that animal.

1425
02:06:09,160 --> 02:06:17,020
Yeah, we'll re-write this as a proposal back to him.

1426
02:06:17,020 --> 02:06:23,100
Here's a shoulder draft that's tight it'll be tighter

1427
02:06:32,820 --> 02:06:36,020
Is everybody satisfied with that and

1428
02:06:46,540 --> 02:06:50,460
with that is there any public comment on items not otherwise on our agenda?

1429
02:06:50,680 --> 02:06:52,920
We are adjourned

1430
02:06:53,700 --> 02:06:55,440
Thank you guys for coming over today