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Good evening. Red Bank's zoning board of

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adjustment will come to order this third

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day of September 2026. The time is 6:30.

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Roll call, please.

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>> And Tori

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>> here.

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>> Raymond Mass

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>> here.

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>> Greg Fitzgerald

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>> here.

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>> John Gilde

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>> here.

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>> Anna Cruz

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absent. Vincent Light

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>> here.

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>> Paul Kagno

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>> here. Eugene Harowitz

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>> here.

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>> Chris Havens

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>> here.

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>> Darothy Cerulo

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>> here.

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>> Can in accordance with New Jersey law

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meeting notice has been published in the

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icebury park press and the Two River

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Times and is available on the municipal

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website and the New Jersey Secretary of

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State's website. It is also posted on

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the municipal bulletin board. This

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meeting complies with the open public

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meetings act and will be tape recorded.

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If the applicant chooses to use the

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court reporter to transcribe the

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recordings, the board requires a copy of

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the transcript. A break will occur

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around 8:00 p.m. in the conference room

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on the first floor. Public is welcome to

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attend, but discussion with board

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members will not be allowed. No new case

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will be heard after 9:00 p.m. and the

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cuto off time is 9:30 p.m. Any

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applicants not heard this will be

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rescheduled for next meeting. Uh, pledge

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of

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>> allegiance.

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Okay, we have a few administrative

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matters. Uh, we have a meeting minutes

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from August 20th. Somebody like to make

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a motion to approve? I'll move those

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minutes.

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>> I'll second.

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>> I think it just I don't think you need

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to do roll just

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>> No. All in favor?

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>> I

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>> Any oppose?

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>> No.

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>> Okay. We have a couple resolutions. We

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have a resolution of approval for 44

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Haden Park.

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>> Uh Mr. Chairman, that was a uh basically

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demolition of an existing shed/workshop

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and construction of a new shed in the

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same spot. It was a rather

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straightforward application and the

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conditions of note are the applicant

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obtains any necessary demolition

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permits, no utility service for the new

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shed except electricity and uh

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compliance with Shauna's review

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memorandum. So, I apologize I got that

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late, but if that's acceptable, we can

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adopt that as presented.

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>> Okay. I have a motion to approve that

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resolution.

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>> I'll make a motion. Second. I'll second.

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There you go.

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» An Tory.

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>> Yes.

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>> Raymond Mass.

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>> Yes.

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>> Greg Fitzgerald.

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>> John Gilde.

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>> Yes.

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>> Anna Cruz.

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>> Paul Kagno.

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>> Yes.

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>> Eugene Harowitz.

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>> Yes.

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>> Okay.

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We have one more resolution of approval

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for 44 Irving Place. Mr. Mr. Chairman,

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that was an application that which was

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approved effectuating a number of

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improvements to a lot containing a

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single family home with a detached

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garage and that was on Irving Place and

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uh the conditions of note were the

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garage is not going because remember it

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was going to be a larger garage uh so it

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would be technically a principal

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structure but uh the expanded garage is

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not going to be a principal use and it's

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only going to be used for storage and

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parking purposes. Uh the garage is not

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to be used for office space. No, uh

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utility services except electricity and

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the stairs in the garage uh definitely

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pull down staircase. It's going to

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comply with the height. The bill code

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doors are going to be removed and no

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windows on the garage facing the rear

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property line and um I think that was

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the the gist of it in compliance with

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Shauna's review memorandum. And there

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was also um I believe a a placement of trees uh and the tree replacements

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have to be reviewed and approved by

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Shauna in terms of the details of sizing

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and it has to be from the burrow's

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approved natural species list. If that's

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acceptable, we can present that subject

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to legal and engineering review if

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that's acceptable.

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>> Okay. Thank you for that short

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resolution, Mr. Kennedy. Anybody like to

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make approve?

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>> I'll make motion.

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>> I'll second.

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>> Any

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>> yes.

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>> Raymond Mass.

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>> Yes.

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>> Greg Fitzgerald.

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>> Yes.

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>> John Gilde.

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>> Yes.

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>> Vincent Light.

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>> Yes.

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>> Paul Kagno.

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>> Yes.

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>> Eugene Harowitz.

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>> Yes.

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>> And Chris Havens.

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Thank you.

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>> Okay. New business. We have 56 Newman

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Springs Road.

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>> Okay, this is Jennifer Crimco and uh

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good evening and welcome back. And as um

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we're getting ready, I just wanted to do

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a couple real quick things. First up, is

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there anyone here who had any questions

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or comments regarding the sufficiency of

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the notice they uh received? And uh just

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for the record, the applicant did notice

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uh the individual and owners in Redbank

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and in Shrewsbury. So we thank you. All

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right. No comments or concerns regarding

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the notice. So the board secretary and I

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reviewed the notice and found everything

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to be in order. So it would be my humble

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opinion that we have jurisdiction to

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proceed tonight. So for the record, I

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just want to put uh some pretty unique

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aspects of this um file into the record.

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Now, why do we want to do that? We want

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to do it because one, we want to make a

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complete record. Two, we want to make

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sure everyone on the board and in the

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public um is all on the same page. And

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we want to make sure everyone has a

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basic understanding of where we started,

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where we went, and where we're going.

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And that's important because this

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application, Jennifer, I think started

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three maybe four years ago. And uh

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different different types of uh

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different board members. So, I just want

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to make sure that we're all on uh

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record. So we begin. So previously this

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applicant submitted a development

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application to the Burough of Redbank to

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demolish the existing billboard sign at

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187 Riverside Avenue and uh it's right

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uh basically um next to the uh the

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Beerino restaurant and we had a lot of

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um hearings on that. there was a lot of

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public comments and it was a very

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nuanced and uh complicated burough

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ordinance that was in uh in effect at

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the time. So we had a lot of hearings

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and I said a lot of public comments and

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I think we also had three different

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variations of the billboard proposal. So

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ultimately at the end of the

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presentation, the board voted to deny

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that application and a memorializing

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resolution was adopted and the

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applicants filed a prerogative lawsuit

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seeking to reverse or overturn the board

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decision. So, as is standard and as I

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was authorized, I filed an answer to

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that complaint and the matter is

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presently be pending before the uh

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superior court and I guess we're sort of

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on a timeout uh pending this uh

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potential uh settlement and and hearing.

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So when in the course of a typical

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prerogative writ litigation case

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whenever we talk about a potential

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settlement we reference the term

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whispering woods hearing and that name

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and that phrase whispering woods will be

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used a lot tonight and I would like to

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just take two minutes just to explain

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and most of us up here know it because

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we've been having talk talks about it

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but I just want to explain uh Whispering

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Woods was a name of a case a local case

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and in that case. Um there were

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objectors to an application and at the

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end of the planning board or zoning

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board presentation, uh the application

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was denied and the objectors clapped and

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they were happy and and uh they thought

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that was the end of it and the um the

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party who got denied ultimately

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appealed, instituted litigation and the

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case was ultimately settled whereby the

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planning board or the zoning board

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authorized the construction of something

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slightly different than what was

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initially uh proposed. And construction

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started and the objectors, you can

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imagine, went a little uh uh were very

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confused and they said, "Wait a minute."

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They were concerned because they said,

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"We were here when this application was

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denied and uh how is this applicant now

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building and what gives and how did that

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happen and is that right?" So there was

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litigation again and the outcome of that

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whispering woods case is that if a

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planning board or zoning board are going

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to settle a litigation case involving a

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potential approval uh of an of a new

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application, there has to be notice to

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everyone and it has to be done in a

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public hearing uh with notice and

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testimony and and has to be transparent.

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And at its simplest and most basic

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level, I think we can all sort of

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understand that that makes sense. That

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everything has to be done transparently

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and in the open so everyone can see and

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question and comment and voice opinion.

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So when we hear or use that phrase

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whispering woods hearing, that's just a

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reference to the fact that it's a

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potential settlement of a prerogative

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writ litigation case and it needs to be

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publicly reviewed, publicly vetted,

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publicly discussed, publicly debated

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with all that um uh you know in in the

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view of the public. So tonight's hearing

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is in many ways a very typical

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whispering woods hearing uh because it's

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including the same applicant and it's

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includes the um billboard proposal and

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there's public notice uh and we're going

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to have a public hearing but there are

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also many other factors present which

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make this unlike many other typical

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prerogative wood uh prerogative writ

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whispering wood uh hearing cases and

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Some of those unique factors that are

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present tonight are uh involve the

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following. One, we're talking about a

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totally different a totally different

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property. The first application that was

280
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:48,640
denied that was the subject of the

281
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:49,760
litigation was dealing with the

282
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,480
billboard at 187 Riverside Avenue.

283
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,160
Tonight, we're dealing with a potential

284
00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,480
billboard on Newman Springs Road. Uh

285
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,800
Sean, it's different zones. Uh I forget

286
00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,320
what zone H and now it's the HBD zone.

287
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,000
It's a different property owner. It's

288
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,880
totally different surrounding uses and on top of that, Shauna, we have a

289
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,720
different a different ordinance in

290
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,200
effect. Um at last time when we uh came

291
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,839
for what I'm going to say round one, um

292
00:11:17,839 --> 00:11:20,640
there was understandably some questions

293
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,600
and concerns about the nuances of the

294
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,000
ordinance. So, um that ordinance has

295
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,120
been revised and uh readopted and

296
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,760
clarified. And there was also uh

297
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,480
Jennifer I think in round one there was

298
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,000
a question that whether you needed site

299
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,440
plan approval whether you needed use

300
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:38,640
variance approval whether you need a

301
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,320
bulk variance approval and I think we

302
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,600
had 12 interpretations uh on on on the

303
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,240
docket. So now all that is eliminated.

304
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,560
We know that use variance approval is

305
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:52,880
needed and um interestingly the

306
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,120
underlying testimony from the three or

307
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,600
four hearings that we had uh on the in

308
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,600
round one are not necessarily relevant

309
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,240
uh to this site or the nature of the

310
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,959
surrounding uses. Um and that's why

311
00:12:06,959 --> 00:12:10,000
after a lot of debate the what we agreed

312
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,079
was that you everyone was more than

313
00:12:12,079 --> 00:12:13,920
welcome to listen to those tapes but you

314
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,680
did not have to and also

315
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,399
we all agreed that this uh would be

316
00:12:20,399 --> 00:12:23,120
technically a new application. So Mr.

317
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,680
Chair I have um sort of coined a new

318
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:29,920
legal phrase uh instead of I'm I'm

319
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,600
calling it a whispering woods type of

320
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,279
hearing. So, I don't know if it's going

321
00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:35,519
to uh get any traction, but that that's

322
00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:38,399
sort of my uh middle ground there. So,

323
00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:40,560
now we return back to our procedural

324
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,560
history. So, as part of the litigation

325
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,639
process, uh the board's representatives

326
00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:46,079
and the applicants representative

327
00:12:46,079 --> 00:12:49,040
discussed some potential settlement

328
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,079
options. Um again of course in the

329
00:12:52,079 --> 00:12:54,560
context of the Whispering Woods case law

330
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:58,959
and the settlement concept um generally

331
00:12:58,959 --> 00:13:01,839
involved uh the following and it

332
00:13:01,839 --> 00:13:04,320
involved uh and we'll go into much more

333
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,720
detail of this later on but it involved

334
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,320
um the removal of the billboard at 187

335
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,680
uh Riverside Avenue. It uh involved the

336
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:15,839
permanent removal and abandonment or of

337
00:13:15,839 --> 00:13:18,880
seven or eight other uh static

338
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,240
billboards uh in the Redbank area. It

339
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,160
involved um use uh the bureau's use of

340
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,959
the billboard uh at no charge for

341
00:13:28,959 --> 00:13:31,839
certain designated uh time and then also

342
00:13:31,839 --> 00:13:36,399
in the use of a um for emergencies. And

343
00:13:36,399 --> 00:13:39,120
there was also uh a moratorum on

344
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:40,800
converting other billboards and we'll go

345
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:45,519
into that in a little bit. But we had a pretty extensive uh settlement

346
00:13:45,519 --> 00:13:48,720
agreement. And for what I would like to

347
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,200
do, I'm going to mark as B1 is the

348
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,440
resolution of this board conditionally

349
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,240
authorizing the uh the settlement

350
00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,320
agreement. And then I'm going to mark as

351
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,000
two B2 the actual settlement agreement.

352
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:07,199
But um uh again, it's sort of uh the

353
00:14:07,199 --> 00:14:10,000
settlement agreement very clearly. Uh

354
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,920
well, tonight's hearing will be um you

355
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,760
know, all like all other applications.

356
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,360
The applicant's going to have the burden

357
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:18,320
of proof. They're going to need to

358
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,240
satisfy the legal standards and they're

359
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:21,839
going to have to address your answers

360
00:14:21,839 --> 00:14:24,320
and questions and comments and it may be

361
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,000
approved. It may be denied. It may be

362
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:30,160
approved with conditions. Um but uh also

363
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,079
in many respects because of the afores

364
00:14:32,079 --> 00:14:34,000
whispering woods this application is

365
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,680
very different from our other typical

366
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,000
hearings. But I think before I forget

367
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,199
and given the um extremely nuanced

368
00:14:41,199 --> 00:14:43,120
procedural history, there's a lot of

369
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,680
stuff that has happened already in this

370
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,160
uh how we got here and I just want to

371
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,519
make uh very clear that though there is

372
00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:53,760
a conditional settlement agreement in

373
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,240
effect. One of the big conditions is

374
00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,639
conditioned on the fact that the um

375
00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:02,720
board approves the application at a

376
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,000
whispering woods hearing and there is no

377
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,120
obligation uh to to do that. It based

378
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:10,720
going to be based upon the testimony and

379
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,360
evidence presented. Now real quickly uh

380
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,600
before we start I want to uh give a

381
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,199
couple of shoutouts to a bunch of

382
00:15:17,199 --> 00:15:19,279
people. We've been before the court and

383
00:15:19,279 --> 00:15:22,240
the court has been very helpful in

384
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,199
managing and facilitating potential

385
00:15:25,199 --> 00:15:27,519
settlement without in my opinion without

386
00:15:27,519 --> 00:15:30,959
crossing uh that line. And I want to um

387
00:15:30,959 --> 00:15:34,240
I want to thank um we've got Ed Purcell

388
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,320
who was the applicants litigation

389
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,240
attorney and Jennifer Crimco who's their

390
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,160
zoning attorney and and the outfront

391
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,880
representatives. Um, obviously we've had

392
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,079
a lot of uh positions where we have

393
00:15:46,079 --> 00:15:49,120
legally been 100% diametrically opposed

394
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:50,800
to each other, but between Ed and

395
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,480
Jennifer and myself, we've been very

396
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,600
collegial and very respectful and uh on

397
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,639
many points, we just agreed to disagree.

398
00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:00,560
And uh at the risk of getting personal,

399
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:01,839
I think we probably need a little bit

400
00:16:01,839 --> 00:16:03,440
more of that in the world. I want to

401
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,639
thank our friends at at TNM. um they

402
00:16:06,639 --> 00:16:08,959
reviewed things uh in an expeditious

403
00:16:08,959 --> 00:16:12,399
fashion but um most importantly without

404
00:16:12,399 --> 00:16:14,639
sacrificing any thoroughess or

405
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:17,279
completeness. Mr. Chairman, I absolutely

406
00:16:17,279 --> 00:16:19,920
want to thank my friend Shauna. She's

407
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,279
been wonderful for this thing for three

408
00:16:21,279 --> 00:16:23,040
or four years. She's dealt with the the

409
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,040
initial ordinance and the handling of

410
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,320
the the new ordinance and she uh I don't

411
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:29,920
see it myself, but apparently I'm

412
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,759
annoying and I I' I've must have spoken

413
00:16:31,759 --> 00:16:34,480
to her, you know, sometimes 15 times a

414
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,800
day. And I um if I was texting

415
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:40,560
uh how great she is, I would end the

416
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,160
text with a whole bunch of happy face

417
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,240
emojis and thumbs up emojis because

418
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,959
Shauna is is is the real deal. And I

419
00:16:46,959 --> 00:16:48,160
also, Mr. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank

420
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:49,839
you and the board members because this

421
00:16:49,839 --> 00:16:51,279
has not been easy and it's been

422
00:16:51,279 --> 00:16:53,279
complicated and it's been long and it's

423
00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:55,360
been different boards uh different

424
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,000
mixtures of boards over the years and uh

425
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,000
you have all and I'm serious about this.

426
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,440
You you've been very patient. You've

427
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,920
been very thorough. You've been very uh

428
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,720
committed and you're all volunteers and

429
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,160
I think you're for the record I think

430
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,600
you're wonderful ambassadors to this

431
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,919
town and I think the board is is is

432
00:17:11,919 --> 00:17:15,039
great uh to have you. Uh so anyway,

433
00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:20,480
against this um we're now here and um we

434
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,240
should just do a couple of normal

435
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,720
things. So before I'm going to uh shoot

436
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,720
it over to

437
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,200
uh Jennifer Crimco and she's going to

438
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:30,880
enter her appearance and we'll also do a

439
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,240
little bit of conflict check as to who

440
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:33,919
the principles of the owner are and and

441
00:17:33,919 --> 00:17:35,919
the applicant. But we're going to do a

442
00:17:35,919 --> 00:17:37,440
couple of things. So, first up, we're

443
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,480
going to swear in uh Shauna uh Ebanks,

444
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:41,840
who's a planner and our director of

445
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,679
community um I'm sorry, a director of e

446
00:17:45,679 --> 00:17:48,320
community development. And um we're

447
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,240
going to swear in Carolyn Ryder from

448
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,720
TNM, who's the burrow planner, and we're

449
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,400
also going to see swear in Jackie Dur uh

450
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,880
our board engineer from TNM Associates.

451
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,799
So, uh, ladies, if you wouldn't mind

452
00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:03,200
raising your right hands, do you swear

453
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:04,799
that the information and testimony

454
00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:07,120
you're about to provide to the extent

455
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:09,679
you provide any will be the truth, the

456
00:18:09,679 --> 00:18:10,880
whole truth, and nothing but the truth,

457
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,440
so help you God. Okay. And before we um

458
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,000
mark uh the items into evidence, just a

459
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,799
couple little caveats. And ultimately,

460
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:22,720
uh Jennifer Crimco here is going to be

461
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,320
able to say, "Hey, I agree with

462
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,240
everything you said, or I agree with

463
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,760
half of it. uh you need to add 08 and I

464
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,760
want you to take out 12, but we can uh

465
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,080
do all that. But a couple of caveats. So

466
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,080
the initial vote was taken um I think in

467
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,400
2024. I'm not sure. Um but uh everyone

468
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,200
here tonight is eligible to participate.

469
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,120
So if you weren't on the board back

470
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,679
then, that's okay. If you voted no back

471
00:18:49,679 --> 00:18:52,080
then, that's okay. If you didn't even

472
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,679
live in Redbank at the time, that's

473
00:18:53,679 --> 00:18:58,640
okay. Um, so it's uh everyone um and

474
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,280
it's okay if you voted, you know, you

475
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:02,799
entertained the settlement agreement or

476
00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:03,840
you didn't want to entertain the

477
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,360
settlement agreement. This is a brand

478
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:07,280
new start, new application. And

479
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,120
Charlene, for the record, even though I

480
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:11,360
said everyone can participate, this is a

481
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:14,559
use variance application. So only seven

482
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:18,000
members will ultimately vote. And

483
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,240
remember uh in order for a use variance

484
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,960
application to be approved, we need uh

485
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,200
the applicant needs five affirmative yes

486
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,520
votes. So uh to mark into the record uh

487
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:31,840
we're going to mark as A1 is the

488
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,600
application package. A2 is the minor

489
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,200
site plan prepared by dynamic

490
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,360
engineering and that's one sheet dated

491
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:42,160
July 8th 2026.

492
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,960
A3 is the survey dynamic survey one

493
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,320
sheet dated April 23rd 2026.

494
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,880
A4 is the application submission letter

495
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,760
prepared by Jennifer Crimco and it was

496
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,640
July 16th, 2026.

497
00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,320
A5 is the intent to proceed. And I'm

498
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,320
going to mark the TNM Associates review

499
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,720
letter dated August 14th, 2026 as B3.

500
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,400
And a couple of real other real quick

501
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:13,520
things. Um A6 will be the outfront uh

502
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,640
protocol A and B and that uh Jennifer

503
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:23,039
Krimco and her team will explain that sort of explains some of the uh the

504
00:20:23,039 --> 00:20:25,760
no charge uh protocol that the at which

505
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,360
the bureau can use the uh billboard if

506
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,159
the application is approved. A7 are the

507
00:20:32,159 --> 00:20:34,080
sign details

508
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:40,400
and A8 is a sign detail sketch exhibit

509
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,840
and we have A9 is an aerial exhibit and

510
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,559
A10 is the lighting plans and view angle

511
00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:50,159
exhibit. A1 is a billboard removal

512
00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:53,600
exhibit. A12 is a disclosure.

513
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,320
A13 we're going to mark as protocol A.

514
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,200
A14 we're going to mark as protocol B.

515
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,400
And then A15 is a communication from uh

516
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,799
Dynamic and that's dated August 24th,

517
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:07,520
2026. And last but not least, I just

518
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:08,960
want to say one quick thing before I

519
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,080
forgot. Um part of our settlement

520
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,600
agreement did not require

521
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:20,480
uh the applicant to use um the uh

522
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,679
Jennifer the what is view technology?

523
00:21:23,679 --> 00:21:26,240
Narrow view technology. and Jennifer uh

524
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,720
Krimpco sent me an email the other day

525
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:29,919
saying, "Hey, even though it's not

526
00:21:29,919 --> 00:21:32,000
required, we are going to provide that."

527
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,919
So, we thank you and you can testify

528
00:21:33,919 --> 00:21:36,000
into that later on. So, against that

529
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,159
very long introduction, I thank the

530
00:21:38,159 --> 00:21:39,520
board members. I thank members of the

531
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,120
public. And I turn it over to Jennifer

532
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:42,000
Crimco.

533
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,440
>> Good evening, members of the board. It's

534
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,039
nice to see everyone and it's nice to

535
00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:47,120
see some of the new faces. Jennifer

536
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:49,520
Crimco, on behalf of the applicant, I

537
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,080
would say I agree with 98% of what Kevin

538
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,320
did. I have some questions before I can

539
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,080
agree to a hundred. So before I go into

540
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,080
it, if the it's okay with Mr. Chair,

541
00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,520
I'll just go through some of these

542
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:00,400
things.

543
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,679
>> So

544
00:22:01,679 --> 00:22:03,679
>> Jennifer, please speak enough

545
00:22:03,679 --> 00:22:04,960
>> on the way down. I will.

546
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,240
>> Sorry. Um, so a couple things. First,

547
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,720
the site plan was

548
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,679
not one page. It's a four page and it's

549
00:22:15,679 --> 00:22:20,559
actually revised through 82426.

550
00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:22,960
And those are the ones that were

551
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:24,799
submitted to the board on 824.

552
00:22:24,799 --> 00:22:28,080
>> So let's mark that as A16 just to be

553
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:28,960
clear.

554
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,039
>> Okay. So the first one was the original

555
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:33,280
and then this is the right and and just

556
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,679
so the board is aware this was done as a

557
00:22:35,679 --> 00:22:37,520
result of the comments from the planner

558
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,280
and the engineer. We added some more

559
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,919
details to the plan. So A16 is the site

560
00:22:41,919 --> 00:22:46,320
plan revised through 82426.

561
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,960
Okay. And when you talk about the sign

562
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,559
detail

563
00:22:50,559 --> 00:22:54,559
and the sign detail sketch exhibit,

564
00:22:54,559 --> 00:22:57,440
I just want to make sure, sorry, Mr.

565
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,990
Chair,

566
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,600
the the aerial exhibit is

567
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,919
self-explanatory. The lighting view and

568
00:23:05,919 --> 00:23:08,480
sign view angle is self-explanatory.

569
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,960
Billboard removal is self-explanatory.

570
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,559
May I just see what you're referencing

571
00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:15,440
as the as A7 and A8? You know, and Sean,

572
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,280
I was reviewing from your um um

573
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,600
computer. Okay.

574
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,000
>> We don't have a sign detail. What we do

575
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,840
have is a sign detail comparison

576
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,159
exhibit. And I think that that was

577
00:23:28,159 --> 00:23:31,360
probably what those were intended to be.

578
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:34,720
>> So, and let's just mark that A17 sign

579
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,880
detail comparison exhibit.

580
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,440
>> Right. But I don't know what A seven and

581
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,000
eight are.

582
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,720
So, originally I had sent you one that

583
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,760
had them in the vertical and then Dan

584
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,200
submitted one that has them in the

585
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,240
horizontal to hand out. So, I think

586
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:53,679
Kevin, if it's okay with you, they

587
00:23:53,679 --> 00:23:56,400
should probably be A7 and 8 instead of a

588
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,919
new exhibit.

589
00:23:57,919 --> 00:24:00,240
>> Um, okay.

590
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,080
>> So, A A7 can be the sign detail vertical

591
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,799
and A8 can be the horizontal. And it is

592
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:08,400
the same exhibit. It's just how it's

593
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,120
presented.

594
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:13,360
>> Got it.

595
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:15,520
>> Okay. And then

596
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:16,880
the only other thing, and it's not a

597
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,480
disagreement. I tend to agree with you

598
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,320
that this is not a typical Whispering

599
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,240
Woods, but I'm not comfortable calling

600
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,159
it a Whispering Woods type because I

601
00:24:24,159 --> 00:24:25,760
believe this is a Whispering Woods case.

602
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,120
I think we're following the letter of

603
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:29,440
the law 100%. So, I would like to

604
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,200
characterize this as a Whispering Woods

605
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,279
hearing. Although not a traditional one,

606
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:35,600
it still falls within what a Whispering

607
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,200
Woods hearing would be. So, you're not

608
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,559
going to accept my coined phrase of

609
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:40,880
whispering woods type, but we're okay.

610
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,559
>> Not for this one. The rest. So,

611
00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:46,480
as always, and I think I said this at

612
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:47,919
all the prior hearings I've been here,

613
00:24:47,919 --> 00:24:49,440
and every hearing I've ever been to

614
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,440
where Kevin is the board attorney, you

615
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,919
stole a lot of my thunder. Um, I know

616
00:24:53,919 --> 00:24:55,600
that in an abundance of caution, you

617
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,400
like to be sure to uh put everything on

618
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,320
the record, and I appreciate that, and I

619
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,279
thank you for that. And I echo Kevin and

620
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:05,279
thanking him and the board members and

621
00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:07,679
Shauna for working so hard to get us

622
00:25:07,679 --> 00:25:10,000
where we are today.

623
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,520
Um

624
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,200
I have two additional exhibits that were

625
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,679
submitted in advance.

626
00:25:17,679 --> 00:25:20,559
So A7 and I have handouts of everything

627
00:25:20,559 --> 00:25:24,000
for the board. I see that everyone on

628
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,000
this side is with me plus one on that

629
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,840
side is with me. So there's only a

630
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,000
couple members of public. I did print

631
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,400
enough to to have them. So, my first

632
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,480
question is for all of the exhibits that

633
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,799
um Kevin just went through, do you

634
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:38,159
already have your copies or would you

635
00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:43,510
like me to hand out additional copies?

636
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,679
» I think we have an older version of the

637
00:25:45,679 --> 00:25:46,799
site plan, right?

638
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:48,640
>> No, no, no. Not the not the big one. I'm

639
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,240
sorry, Mr. Gild Day. I'm just talking

640
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:51,919
about these types of exhibits that we

641
00:25:51,919 --> 00:25:53,600
went through. So,

642
00:25:53,600 --> 00:26:05,590
>> yeah, please. Yeah.

643
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,279
Then the remainder we can put on the

644
00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:09,760
table any member of the public.

645
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,679
>> And then Jennifer, just so I know, this

646
00:26:11,679 --> 00:26:15,120
first one here, what number is that?

647
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:16,559
>> Which one's the first one?

648
00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:18,480
>> Um,

649
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,039
>> that is a eight.

650
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:22,400
>> Eight. Got it.

651
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,360
>> The second one is the aerial. So that is

652
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:29,750
a nine.

653
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,760
Thank you.

654
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,000
>> The third one is the light and view

655
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,149
angle. That's a 10.

656
00:26:38,159 --> 00:26:46,070
» Got it.

657
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,400
» The next one is the billboard removal

658
00:26:48,400 --> 00:27:00,149
exhibit.

659
00:27:00,159 --> 00:27:01,520
And tell me when you're ready, Kevin,

660
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:01,840
because

661
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:02,400
>> I'm ready.

662
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:03,120
>> Okay.

663
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:04,880
>> A17

664
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,200
is a public benefit package,

665
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,600
and you're going to hear testimony uh

666
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,360
from the representative from outfront

667
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:15,679
with regard to the types of public

668
00:27:15,679 --> 00:27:18,400
messaging that we uh provide.

669
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,679
>> You know what, Jen? Just hold on. What

670
00:27:19,679 --> 00:27:23,039
number is this one?

671
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:24,559
That one is A1.

672
00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:29,760
>> A1. And then one last one. This is

673
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,400
>> that is the lighting view angle exhibit.

674
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,080
>> And that's a

675
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,200
>> I need to look real quick. That's A10.

676
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,400
>> Got it. All right. And then A17 is a

677
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,080
public benefit

678
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,279
>> photo pack.

679
00:27:43,279 --> 00:28:07,590
>> Photo package.

680
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:08,880
again. If there's any member of the

681
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,880
public that wants to see these, they're

682
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,190
available.

683
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,200
Uh

684
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:23,590
and then A18

685
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,039
is uh the renderings

686
00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:28,720
of

687
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,279
the billboard, the proposed billboard

688
00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:33,760
and the relocated commercial sign as to

689
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,720
what it will appear from various sites.

690
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,679
I'm sorry, from various distances public

691
00:28:39,679 --> 00:29:05,830
and west.

692
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,840
I'm just going to I'll I'll call up

693
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,720
Andrew and have him get situated, but

694
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:42,549
we'll wait until everything Yes.

695
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:43,840
Now an acceptable time to ask a

696
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,440
clarifying question on the whispering

697
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,000
woods aspect of the hearing. Okay.

698
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,720
>> Um does the whispering woods uh hearing

699
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,720
meaning this this application is

700
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,480
distinct from the old one, right? But um

701
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,480
does the does that mean that the

702
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,520
settlement can have bearing on tonight's

703
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:04,399
>> Absolutely.

704
00:30:04,399 --> 00:30:06,799
>> Okay. So you intend to include um the

705
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:08,799
terms of the settlement as special

706
00:30:08,799 --> 00:30:11,360
reasons or positive criteria in the

707
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,440
>> I I I love your use of the planning

708
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,159
vernacular. The that those aren't going

709
00:30:18,159 --> 00:30:20,559
to be the special reasons necessarily.

710
00:30:20,559 --> 00:30:22,399
So a couple of things if I may, Kevin,

711
00:30:22,399 --> 00:30:25,120
to just supplement what you so aptly uh

712
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,360
stated. So, Whispering Woods hearing,

713
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,200
yes, we have to present the revised

714
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,960
plans. We have to put our proofs on as

715
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,120
it relates to the revised plans, but

716
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,559
essentially a Whispering Woods hearing

717
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:36,080
is not only the approval of the

718
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,159
application should you so approve it. It

719
00:30:38,159 --> 00:30:40,240
is the acceptance of the terms of the

720
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,159
settlement. So, what does that mean?

721
00:30:42,159 --> 00:30:43,919
Everything we agreed to in that

722
00:30:43,919 --> 00:30:46,480
settlement that we signed, if the board

723
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,440
approves that tonight, then those all

724
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,080
apply as conditions. So everything

725
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,000
within that settlement would apply to

726
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,760
any approval that was granted tonight.

727
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,760
We're not here to relitigate those.

728
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,080
We've already agreed to it, both the

729
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,320
board as well as the applicant. As Kevin

730
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:03,520
had said, that doesn't mean that there

731
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:04,960
can't be other reasonable conditions

732
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,399
imposed, which we'll go through. Um, it

733
00:31:08,399 --> 00:31:10,080
is not the conditions themselves that

734
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,159
are the public benefit or the special

735
00:31:12,159 --> 00:31:15,279
reasons, but what we're promising to do

736
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:18,000
as part of those conditions add to the

737
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,000
special reasons. And I think Mr. Gild

738
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,200
day. I think that that gives me the

739
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,399
opportunity to tell you who's going to

740
00:31:22,399 --> 00:31:24,159
be here tonight and who's going to

741
00:31:24,159 --> 00:31:26,080
testify and who's going to testify to

742
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,799
what. So, I have Andrew Arvey here as a

743
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:31,600
representative of Outfront. I'm going to

744
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,440
go through the process of swearing him

745
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,039
in, having him tell you all about

746
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:38,159
himself. uh he will be giving some of

747
00:31:38,159 --> 00:31:40,960
the background as it relates to uh who

748
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,159
outfront is what the what we are

749
00:31:44,159 --> 00:31:46,159
required to put on the record uh as

750
00:31:46,159 --> 00:31:47,519
outfront as to what we have the

751
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:49,279
authority to stipulate to in the

752
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:51,600
settlement as well as answer some

753
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,799
questions. The technical aspects of this

754
00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:57,440
will be handled by Dan Dockerty who is a

755
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,840
uh principal engineer at Dynamic

756
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,720
Engineering. He will go through all of

757
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,279
the zoning criteria, what's existing,

758
00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:07,279
what we're proposing. He'll go through a

759
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:10,320
lot of the exhibits. Um, and he will

760
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,240
offer a lot of the detailed information

761
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,279
with regard to lighting, luminance,

762
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:19,039
impacts on, uh, the neighborhood and

763
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:22,080
residential and things like that. Then I

764
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,240
also have Christine Capone here. She's a

765
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,640
professional planner. Uh, she will offer

766
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,559
all of the planning testimony in support

767
00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:30,240
of the application. So she will go

768
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,159
through the proofs that we need to as it

769
00:32:32,159 --> 00:32:35,039
relates to particular suitability, the

770
00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:37,360
purposes of land use which is all part

771
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,760
of the positive and then the negative no

772
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,519
substantial detriment to the public good

773
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:43,679
or to the master plan or the zone plan

774
00:32:43,679 --> 00:32:46,000
and then the Medici reconciliation. So

775
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,519
she'll go through all of that. So each

776
00:32:49,519 --> 00:32:52,559
witness has a distinct part that's all

777
00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:54,720
kind of related. So did that answer that

778
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,720
for you? Yeah, I understand that the

779
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,320
procedure, but um I think I also need to

780
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,039
hear from our council too that we that's

781
00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:02,320
how that's also your understanding of

782
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:02,720
the

783
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,960
>> work 100% that uh if let's just assume

784
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,440
for purpose of this discussion that the

785
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,320
application is approved um the

786
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,159
conditions of approval would include

787
00:33:14,159 --> 00:33:15,600
compliance with the settlement agreement

788
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,720
and we will more clearly specify every

789
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,080
single condition. Uh, yes. So, that 100%

790
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,840
is true.

791
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,480
And then Jennifer, just um and I I I

792
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,320
forget. I have so many papers here. Do

793
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,240
you recall offh hand the name of the

794
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,960
owner of the property?

795
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,120
Um, I just want to do a quick internal

796
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,640
conflict check. Shauna, do you remember?

797
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,120
>> No, no, no. The legal

798
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,679
>> Yeah, I think it's Food Properties LLC.

799
00:33:43,679 --> 00:33:46,720
>> Okay. And then, and then the um outfront

800
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,120
media. So, hearing those names. any

801
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,120
questions or comments or concerns about

802
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:52,799
conflicts or potential conflicts?

803
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:54,000
>> And I can just tell you some of the

804
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,159
representatives for the owner um are

805
00:33:56,159 --> 00:34:00,080
Scadudo and Aelina and Outfront is a

806
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,159
publicly traded company. So there are no

807
00:34:02,159 --> 00:34:04,159
owners of 10% or more. That would create

808
00:34:04,159 --> 00:34:04,960
a conflict.

809
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:05,519
>> Thank you.

810
00:34:05,519 --> 00:34:07,279
>> So unless you own a lot of stock in

811
00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:09,839
Outfront, uh I would say that you would

812
00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:11,839
not be conflicted out.

813
00:34:11,839 --> 00:34:13,599
>> Got it. So you want to swear in Andrew?

814
00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:14,399
>> I would. Thank you.

815
00:34:14,399 --> 00:34:16,079
>> Andrew, if you could just state your

816
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:17,679
first and last name, please.

817
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:20,320
>> Sure. That's Andrew Arve. That's spelled

818
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,679
A R. V as in Victor. A Y.

819
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,000
>> A R V A Y.

820
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:26,720
>> Yes, that's correct.

821
00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:28,240
>> Okay. And your address?

822
00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:31,359
>> 185 US Highway 46, Fairfield, New

823
00:34:31,359 --> 00:34:31,919
Jersey.

824
00:34:31,919 --> 00:34:32,960
>> All right. Do you swear that the

825
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,320
information and testimony you're about

826
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:35,599
to provide will be the truth to the best

827
00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:37,040
of your knowledge to help you God?

828
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:37,440
>> Yes.

829
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,480
>> And just for the record, you're

830
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,720
testifying tonight in your capacity as

831
00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:42,560
>> real estate representative for Alfront

832
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,000
Media.

833
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,240
>> Okay. Okay. And just uh bring that mic

834
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:50,079
really close to you so that we hear.

835
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:51,359
>> You're more comfortable with that then

836
00:34:51,359 --> 00:34:52,720
feel free.

837
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:54,240
>> Uh real estate representative for

838
00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:56,000
Alfront Media. That better everybody?

839
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:56,560
>> Yep. Okay.

840
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:57,839
>> Keep it close to your mouth if you don't

841
00:34:57,839 --> 00:35:00,320
mind. So Andrew just take a moment to

842
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,240
give uh the board the benefit of your

843
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:03,760
experience

844
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,800
uh with regard to real estate and what

845
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,320
you do for out front as well as with

846
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,200
outfront.

847
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,520
>> Sure. So, I've uh been involved in your

848
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,440
mouth. Sorry. I have 17 years of

849
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,040
experience in real estate sales,

850
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,280
leasing, and development. I've been with

851
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,200
Outfront Media for over a year and a

852
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,880
half now as a real estate representative

853
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,280
for New Jersey. My roles in my current

854
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,520
position are I work directly with the

855
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,000
senior real estate manager of New Jersey

856
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,320
in the modernization of the existing

857
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,400
billboards and identifying and

858
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,640
developing new sites as well as all

859
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,280
aspects of portfolio management

860
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,040
including leasing and permitting.

861
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:40,800
>> Okay. And you're authorized to speak on

862
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,560
behalf of the company and you're

863
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,359
authorized to agree to conditions or

864
00:35:45,359 --> 00:35:46,720
make commitments on behalf of the

865
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:47,520
company tonight.

866
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:48,079
>> Yes.

867
00:35:48,079 --> 00:35:51,119
>> Okay. Great. So for those board members

868
00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:52,560
that were not here at the last meeting

869
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,720
and were not uh didn't have the

870
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:56,640
opportunity to read the many many

871
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,640
transcripts, if you could just take a

872
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,720
few minutes to talk about who Outfront

873
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:02,079
is and what they do.

874
00:36:02,079 --> 00:36:04,160
>> Sure. So Outfront is a national Alfront

875
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,480
Media is a nationally outdoor

876
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,560
advertising company. We are publicly

877
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,400
traded on the New York Stock Exchange

878
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,440
under the symbol OU.

879
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,079
In New Jersey, we operate over 3,500

880
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:20,960
billboards, 117 of which are digital,

881
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,480
and we've been operating digital

882
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,599
billboards in New Jersey since 2009.

883
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:27,520
>> Okay. And out and and I'm going to use

884
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,640
outfront as a shortened version rather

885
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,640
than saying outfront media LLC every

886
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,320
time. I'm sure the board can appreciate

887
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,000
that. Um, so outfront has a signed lease

888
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,079
with the property owner for this

889
00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:41,200
proposed billboard.

890
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,160
>> Yes, that is correct.

891
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,560
>> Okay. And the lease is for how long?

892
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,800
>> The lease is 15 years with a 5-year

893
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,240
outfront option.

894
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:52,000
>> Okay, great. And outfront would maintain

895
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,240
and operate the sign. Is that correct?

896
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:55,440
>> Yes, that is correct.

897
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,800
>> If it were to be approved.

898
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,119
Okay. Um

899
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:03,119
why when when we went through the

900
00:37:03,119 --> 00:37:05,280
settlement process

901
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,680
um and we were discussing potential

902
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,800
alternative sites within Redbank that

903
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,800
would uh be suited for this billboard.

904
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,200
What made you pick this location?

905
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,440
>> So the reason we selected this location

906
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,839
was the lot suitability. It's a good

907
00:37:21,839 --> 00:37:23,520
location in terms of depth.

908
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,119
>> I see that some board members are not

909
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:26,880
hearing you. So I need you to hold it

910
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:27,440
closer.

911
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:28,880
>> Okay. Can you use that better everybody?

912
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,880
Sorry about that. Uh the reason we

913
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,119
selected this site was its good location

914
00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:35,680
in terms of depth and size of the lot,

915
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,760
ease of access for the construction and

916
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,000
the maintenance of the sign as well as

917
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,119
that it can be constructed to meet all

918
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:45,839
the NJ DOT regulations and zoning

919
00:37:45,839 --> 00:37:48,560
requirements. It does not interfere with

920
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,640
any existing use on the property as well

921
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,400
as the ingress or the egress of the

922
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,720
property. Newman Springs Road is a main

923
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:56,800
thoroughfare in nature commercial

924
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,280
highway and it was a stipulation of the

925
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,200
settlement to find a location on Newman

926
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,000
Springs Road.

927
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,400
>> Okay. And just from your perspective, it

928
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,280
being in their business district along a

929
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,960
very heavily trafficked road is

930
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,960
appropriate location for the billboard.

931
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,560
>> Correct. It's suitable exactly for the

932
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:13,520
traveling public.

933
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,599
>> Okay. And I'm going to have Dan go

934
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:17,440
through what we're actually proposing by

935
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,200
way of billboard because he has all of

936
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,280
the exhibits. And you'd indicated that

937
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,359
we meet uh state DOT requirements. So

938
00:38:25,359 --> 00:38:27,520
that involves everything related to what

939
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,400
the DOT regulates with regard to safety,

940
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,160
the messaging, how often uh the message

941
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,280
when the how long the messages have to

942
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,119
stay on before they can change, the

943
00:38:39,119 --> 00:38:40,880
immediate changing of the message. Is

944
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:41,440
that correct?

945
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:42,480
>> Yes, that is correct.

946
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,400
>> Okay. And those in your understanding

947
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,480
all of those are put in place by the DOT

948
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,040
and the statute to ensure safety for the

949
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:49,920
motoring public.

950
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,680
>> Correct. Safety, visibility, and

951
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:52,320
traffic.

952
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,640
>> Okay. And all of these requirements are

953
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,760
what is applied to any billboard, any

954
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,680
digital billboard throughout the state.

955
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,270
>> Correct.

956
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,720
» Okay. Um, as it relates to digital

957
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:08,079
billboarding, why don't you take a

958
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:11,119
moment to explain to the board what the

959
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:13,119
requirements are with distances to other

960
00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:13,920
billboards.

961
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,680
>> So, for a digital billboard in the state

962
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,480
of New Jersey per the NJ DOT outdoor

963
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,520
advertising regulations, it needs to be

964
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,760
3,000 ft linear feet from another

965
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,440
digital billboard. So, there cannot be

966
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,920
another digital billboard within 3,000

967
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,520
ft of an existing one.

968
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,440
>> Okay. Or proposed. So, should this be

969
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:32,160
approved?

970
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:32,720
>> Correct.

971
00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:36,240
>> Okay. So whether whether outfront owns

972
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:38,640
it or not that's just the regulation

973
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:39,440
>> correct from that.

974
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,160
>> Can I just ask does that mean also I

975
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,880
forget. So it doesn't mean across the

976
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,560
street it just means linear.

977
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:47,839
>> Yes that is correct.

978
00:39:47,839 --> 00:39:49,280
>> So you could have one across the street

979
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,520
but you just would that would be okay.

980
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,079
>> We can't but we can't based on the

981
00:39:54,079 --> 00:39:55,040
settlement agreement.

982
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,760
>> Right. But but the thousand applies to

983
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:58,560
on the same side.

984
00:39:58,560 --> 00:39:59,520
>> 3,000 applies. Yes.

985
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:00,640
>> I'm sorry. Got it.

986
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,000
>> Correct.

987
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,480
>> Okay. So the permit was previously

988
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,359
issued and it was uh renewed on March

989
00:40:07,359 --> 00:40:11,760
2026 and obvious we they didn't send out

990
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,520
the updated permit list yet. So we don't

991
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,119
have a physical copy of it but we have

992
00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:16,160
confirmed its renewal.

993
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,160
>> Correct. The permit has been renewed and

994
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,079
paid for annually. This is done usually

995
00:40:20,079 --> 00:40:22,160
around March and that permit is good for

996
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,560
one year. We renew these every year and

997
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,400
we are just awaiting the updated permit

998
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,640
list from the NJ DOT but it is current

999
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:29,760
and it is active.

1000
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,440
>> Okay. So should the board approve this

1001
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,040
and obviously before any construction

1002
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,480
we'd have to provide a copy of that

1003
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:35,200
permit.

1004
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:36,400
>> Absolutely.

1005
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,710
>> Okay.

1006
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:44,400
So, as it relates to the operations of

1007
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,240
the um digital sign,

1008
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:51,040
obviously what are some of the benefits

1009
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,520
to have a digital sign as opposed to a

1010
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,760
static billboard, which and when we use

1011
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,359
the term static, I know the board

1012
00:40:57,359 --> 00:40:58,800
members who are with me for the last

1013
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,800
four hearings know exactly what I mean.

1014
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,040
For any of the new board members, static

1015
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,079
means uh one that is uh in place.

1016
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:08,319
>> Correct. A static is a vinyl, printed

1017
00:41:08,319 --> 00:41:10,319
vinyl that is stretched over the

1018
00:41:10,319 --> 00:41:12,560
structure itself and has to be changed

1019
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,480
every time the ad needs to be changed.

1020
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,960
>> Okay. And what's the benefit of having a

1021
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,560
digital LED sign?

1022
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,520
>> So a digital LED sign, it's easier for

1023
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,359
the workers of Outfront to change.

1024
00:41:23,359 --> 00:41:25,280
There's less maintenance. There's less

1025
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,359
going to the actual site to change the

1026
00:41:27,359 --> 00:41:28,240
advertising copy.

1027
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:29,599
>> So when you say it's easier, let's go

1028
00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:32,000
into a little more detail on this. So

1029
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,520
other than maintenance, which is only

1030
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,839
four times a year, correct? The messages

1031
00:41:35,839 --> 00:41:39,520
are all done by computer offsite. So in

1032
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,680
order to change the billboard message,

1033
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,119
we don't need to bring in trucks and

1034
00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:45,760
ladders and and and work people who

1035
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,480
might be in the way of operations of the

1036
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,440
roadway and or the site, but it actually

1037
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,680
can all be done remotely.

1038
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,760
>> It's all done remotely via a secure

1039
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,680
internet connection to the billboard.

1040
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,440
>> Okay. And I had alluded to the fact that

1041
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,680
the DOT doesn't allow um moving images

1042
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,920
or images that wave in and out. So how

1043
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:08,640
does that work?

1044
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,800
>> Correct. So there's no motion, animation

1045
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,599
or video allowed by the NJT DOT

1046
00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:16,160
regulations. The images, the

1047
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:17,760
advertisements are changed

1048
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,280
instantaneously

1049
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:20,800
from one to the other. There's no

1050
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,640
waving. It's not like a screen saver.

1051
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,599
There's no in between. It just goes one

1052
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:27,520
to the next instantaneous. And that's

1053
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:32,079
been determined by the DOT to be the the safety mechanism with regard to

1054
00:42:32,079 --> 00:42:32,960
digital billboards.

1055
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,480
>> Correct. And we would not be able to

1056
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,560
operate any billboards if we used any

1057
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,400
motion, animation, or video.

1058
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,599
>> Okay. Now, and I say this more for the

1059
00:42:41,599 --> 00:42:43,760
board's benefit than for your benefit.

1060
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,319
So, I I'd ask that questions with regard

1061
00:42:46,319 --> 00:42:47,599
to what we're going to talk about next

1062
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:50,400
be deferred in any technical nature to

1063
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:51,839
Dan because we're not going to go into

1064
00:42:51,839 --> 00:42:53,760
the technical nature. I just want to

1065
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,800
give it offer to you from out front and

1066
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,880
how they operate what these things are.

1067
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,280
So, um, some of the things that Dan is

1068
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,200
going to talk about is the brightness of

1069
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,960
the billboard in in foot candles on the

1070
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,560
ground as well as luminance or knits at

1071
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,359
the billboard, how bright it is. So, in

1072
00:43:13,359 --> 00:43:16,079
the first instance, the brightness of

1073
00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:18,720
this billboard in either way is not

1074
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:20,240
constant throughout the day. Is that

1075
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:20,720
correct?

1076
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:22,480
>> That's correct. It's variable. There is

1077
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,119
a photo sensor, a photo cell on the top

1078
00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:26,720
of the billboard and in the screens that

1079
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:29,040
adjusts to the ambient light. So, for

1080
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,040
instance, at night time it dims down.

1081
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:32,480
You don't want it too bright. It sounds

1082
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,400
counterintuitive, but you don't want it

1083
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:35,520
too bright because you want to be able

1084
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,520
to read the message and not get blinded.

1085
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,680
During the day, it goes to max capacity

1086
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:40,960
because it has to compete with the

1087
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,560
ambient light of the sun.

1088
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,200
>> Okay. And and then throughout throughout

1089
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:46,640
the day, if it's raining, if it's

1090
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,240
cloudy, if the sun comes out, if it's

1091
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:50,319
dusk, it adjusts as we go.

1092
00:43:50,319 --> 00:43:51,599
>> Correct. that adjust to the weather

1093
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:52,960
conditions and the ambient light.

1094
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,160
>> And it's not just that we don't want it

1095
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:55,839
to be blinding. We want to try and

1096
00:43:55,839 --> 00:43:58,800
achieve as little impact as possible and

1097
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,599
really just focus on the um traveling

1098
00:44:01,599 --> 00:44:02,160
public.

1099
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:03,440
>> Exactly. That is correct.

1100
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,960
>> Okay. And uh one of the things that was

1101
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,960
stipulated to in the settlement

1102
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,040
agreement that I want to offer through

1103
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,079
uh Andrew now is that uh the billboard

1104
00:44:14,079 --> 00:44:16,560
will be turned off daily from midnight

1105
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,160
to 5:00 a.m. Is that correct?

1106
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,680
>> Correct. midnight to 5:00 a.m. the

1107
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,440
billboard will be turned off.

1108
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,720
>> Okay. And this will be important as we

1109
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:26,400
go through and talk about dark sky

1110
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,839
compliance through uh DAN, but the sign

1111
00:44:29,839 --> 00:44:33,280
is monitored 24/7 by a camera uh

1112
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,200
installed on both sides of the faces of

1113
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,720
the screen. So if anything should go

1114
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:41,040
wrong, it can be addressed.

1115
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:42,560
>> Correct. It could be remotely turned

1116
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,319
off. If there's any issue with it, if

1117
00:44:44,319 --> 00:44:45,920
there's a tampering, it goes off

1118
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,319
immediately. There's a critical failafe

1119
00:44:48,319 --> 00:44:50,000
function that has to be put on it per

1120
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,000
the DOT where if there's any

1121
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,160
interference, anyone tries to come up to

1122
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,160
the billboard and mess with it, it'll

1123
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:57,599
automatically turn off and the screen

1124
00:44:57,599 --> 00:44:58,560
will go black.

1125
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,119
>> Okay. And

1126
00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:03,599
what are some of the benefits of

1127
00:45:03,599 --> 00:45:04,640
digital?

1128
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,480
>> So, some of the benefits of digital are

1129
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,040
the flexibility for timely and relevant

1130
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,200
messaging based on the time of the day,

1131
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:12,800
the weather conditions, and any other

1132
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,200
factors in the surrounding areas. For

1133
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,760
outfront, it's the ability to change the

1134
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,920
sign remotely via the secure internet

1135
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,680
connection instead of having to go visit

1136
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,920
that site all the time to change out the

1137
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:24,880
advertisement.

1138
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,760
>> So, for example, if a local restaurant

1139
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,000
wanted to advertise and they wanted to

1140
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,920
change their daily specials from lunch

1141
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,319
and dinner on a daily basis, that could

1142
00:45:34,319 --> 00:45:35,119
easily be done.

1143
00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:36,560
>> Correct. That's a great example. For

1144
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,960
example, a restaurant can put out a

1145
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,640
breakfast advertisement in the morning,

1146
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,240
a lunch advertisement in the afternoon,

1147
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:44,240
and a dinner special at night. And this

1148
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:47,040
is all done remotely. Whereas a static,

1149
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:48,640
you would not be able to do this. It

1150
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,480
would have to be changed at the exact

1151
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:50,880
site.

1152
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,440
>> Or a car wash could say, "We're closed

1153
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,240
due to the weather."

1154
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:56,160
>> Exactly. Connect to the thunderstorms or

1155
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:56,960
something. Correct.

1156
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,079
>> Okay. And we're going to get into

1157
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:00,240
greater detail what you're offering by

1158
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:02,400
way of emergency as well as

1159
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,960
non-emergency public. But there is a

1160
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,319
public benefit uh because you allow

1161
00:46:08,319 --> 00:46:10,240
emergency and public service advertising

1162
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:11,119
at no cost.

1163
00:46:11,119 --> 00:46:13,200
>> Yes, that is correct.

1164
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,640
Okay. And the engineer will talk about

1165
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,319
it in a little more detail, but

1166
00:46:20,319 --> 00:46:22,079
aside from the narrow view, which we'll

1167
00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:24,480
talk about in a moment, um the photo

1168
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,480
cells or the the cells from the light

1169
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,800
are directed downward and shielded. So,

1170
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,800
it's not as if they're shining up or out

1171
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,240
to the sides. Is that correct?

1172
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:36,240
>> Yes, that's correct. There are louvers

1173
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:37,680
on the panels themselves, which our

1174
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,839
engineer Dan will attest to and testify

1175
00:46:39,839 --> 00:46:41,839
to, that block the light from going up.

1176
00:46:41,839 --> 00:46:43,760
It's directed to the roadway.

1177
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,280
>> And that was the word I was looking for.

1178
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:46,800
Lofer. That wasn't that

1179
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,720
>> I got one. I've got a question. Is there

1180
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:50,640
any data collection?

1181
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,079
>> We we we're going to go there.

1182
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:53,040
>> You're going to go there.

1183
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,920
>> So, Ke Kevin was kind enough to share

1184
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,920
some potential concerns and we're going

1185
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,280
to talk all about it. The short answer

1186
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:00,560
is no,

1187
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,480
>> but I want to put it in in a little more

1188
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:03,920
detail than that because I think it's an

1189
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:04,800
important issue.

1190
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,960
>> Okay. So um

1191
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,440
>> could I ask about the um conditions on

1192
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,000
which you can change the sign?

1193
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:14,319
>> Sure.

1194
00:47:14,319 --> 00:47:15,920
>> Yeah. So you had listed some you said

1195
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,440
time of day about the restaurant

1196
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,599
specials the weather. Um what about

1197
00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:22,319
audience if are you able to change it

1198
00:47:22,319 --> 00:47:24,319
based on nearby audience or passing

1199
00:47:24,319 --> 00:47:25,359
vehicles?

1200
00:47:25,359 --> 00:47:27,119
>> So that's all going to be part of what

1201
00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:28,480
we're going to talk about the tracking

1202
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,800
and whether or not that gathered data is

1203
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,560
going to be gathered best. So, if you if

1204
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,319
you bear with me to finish going through

1205
00:47:34,319 --> 00:47:35,920
his affirmative, I promise we're going

1206
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,440
to address all of that.

1207
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,240
But this witness, of course. Yeah. No,

1208
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:43,920
not the next one. This one for sure

1209
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,599
because he's out front. He's the one who

1210
00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:46,960
knows exactly what they do and what they

1211
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,359
don't do. So, we're going to go through

1212
00:47:49,359 --> 00:47:53,920
that. Um, let's talk about protocol A,

1213
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,240
protocol B. What did we what are we

1214
00:47:56,240 --> 00:48:00,160
offering to donate to the town as part

1215
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,480
of any approval here that we couldn't do

1216
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,079
with a static billboard?

1217
00:48:04,079 --> 00:48:06,319
>> So, protocol A is more for the emergency

1218
00:48:06,319 --> 00:48:08,560
messaging. These are emergencies, not

1219
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,319
really traffic issues. This is something

1220
00:48:10,319 --> 00:48:12,480
that can come from the local, federal,

1221
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,920
or state level. Um, protocol B is more

1222
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,920
for the town itself. And for the town,

1223
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,280
we are promising one full spot on the

1224
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,680
digital billboard, which is every 8

1225
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,280
seconds

1226
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:26,720
every 64 second minute.

1227
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:30,160
>> So an 8-second spot every 64 seconds,

1228
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,400
which equates to 12 1.5%

1229
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:33,920
>> 12% or

1230
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,400
>> I'm sorry, 8 second spot every

1231
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:36,960
>> 64

1232
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,240
>> every 64 seconds.

1233
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:40,240
>> Seconds, which equals equates to

1234
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:41,280
>> 12%

1235
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:42,319
>> right in the settlement

1236
00:48:42,319 --> 00:48:45,520
>> and 180 minutes per 24 hours. Well, not

1237
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,680
for 24 hours for the number of hours

1238
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,839
that we that we're open. Correct. That

1239
00:48:49,839 --> 00:48:52,880
we're on because we're not on 24 hours.

1240
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,119
>> Um, however, for the emergency

1241
00:48:55,119 --> 00:48:58,000
perspective, you could,

1242
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,160
God forbid, there was a mass emergency,

1243
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:01,920
the burrow needed to get information out

1244
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,839
at 3:00 in the morning, you could have

1245
00:49:03,839 --> 00:49:05,119
it turned on at that hour.

1246
00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:05,760
>> Yes. Correct.

1247
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:10,240
>> Okay. Um, and

1248
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:12,079
>> and Jennifer, the other emergency, I'm

1249
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:13,760
assuming I know last time we talked

1250
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,240
about silver alerts, Amber Alerts, those

1251
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:17,359
are the types of things,

1252
00:49:17,359 --> 00:49:19,200
>> correct? Yes, that's what a protocol A

1253
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,040
is for. Yes. So, homeland security

1254
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,680
issues, FBI alerts, missing persons,

1255
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,079
Amber alerts, silver alerts,

1256
00:49:26,079 --> 00:49:29,040
>> and um yes,

1257
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,760
>> in in the case of like, you know, some

1258
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,200
awful god-awful emergency, can

1259
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,720
that supersede the 1/8 of the time? So,

1260
00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:39,280
something

1261
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:40,720
>> it's in addition to.

1262
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:41,119
>> Okay.

1263
00:49:41,119 --> 00:49:43,280
>> The emergency is in addition to

1264
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,160
>> there's another

1265
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:44,800
>> Yeah. So,

1266
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,800
>> 911. No. So the 1/8 or the one the 12

1267
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,559
and.5%

1268
00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:54,880
is solely automatic every cycle within a

1269
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,440
24-hour period. The emergency is on top

1270
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,760
of that and it would supersede and

1271
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,359
replace any advertising.

1272
00:50:01,359 --> 00:50:03,760
>> Correct. It would

1273
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,040
>> Okay. Um

1274
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:06,800
>> I have one I have sorry right here. I

1275
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,800
have one more question about that on the

1276
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:14,160
um the decision-making authority for um

1277
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,520
the content the 12.5% as well as the

1278
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,599
emergency is that exclusively Redbank

1279
00:50:19,599 --> 00:50:22,240
Burrow or would that ever be county of

1280
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:24,480
Mammoth State of New Jersey etc.

1281
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,680
>> The 12% is Redbank Burrow and only

1282
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,119
Redbank Burrow. You're having ClamFest,

1283
00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:32,240
>> that's what goes there. You're doing

1284
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:33,760
something on the riverfront, that's what

1285
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,359
goes there. you're having a townwide

1286
00:50:37,359 --> 00:50:39,680
celebration. That's what goes there. As

1287
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,720
it relates to the emergency, I believe

1288
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:46,079
any of the emergency personnel such as

1289
00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:48,000
state police, the county sheriff's

1290
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,680
office,

1291
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:54,160
>> any any municipal or governing body or

1292
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,839
OEM, it would have to be some official.

1293
00:50:57,839 --> 00:50:59,440
Exactly. And in those cases, that would

1294
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,200
go they would go directly to outfront.

1295
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:02,559
They wouldn't necessarily need to go

1296
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:04,480
through Red Bank to then contact

1297
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,319
>> I think they would. So, it's my

1298
00:51:06,319 --> 00:51:07,599
understanding, correct me if I'm wrong,

1299
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:09,520
that there would be a police contact or

1300
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:11,440
a burrow contact with regard to

1301
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,760
emergency messaging and if you don't

1302
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,880
have a a personal contact with the state

1303
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,640
police or the like, they would go

1304
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,319
through the Redbank Police Department.

1305
00:51:20,319 --> 00:51:21,760
>> Correct. There would be a code assigned

1306
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:23,760
to the designate, usually it is the

1307
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,839
chief of police. They call the 247

1308
00:51:25,839 --> 00:51:28,240
hotline. They provide that code. They

1309
00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:30,079
tell us what the emergency is. We get

1310
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:32,079
that message up immediately and it

1311
00:51:32,079 --> 00:51:34,160
supersedes all the advertising and it

1312
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:35,839
runs for one hour.

1313
00:51:35,839 --> 00:51:36,240
>> Great.

1314
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:37,839
>> And if they call back in the next hour

1315
00:51:37,839 --> 00:51:39,520
and it's still an emergency, then it

1316
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:40,720
runs for another hour.

1317
00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:42,400
>> Great. Thank you.

1318
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:43,680
>> Uh, now let's talk about the

1319
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:45,839
non-emergency. So, I think we gave a

1320
00:51:45,839 --> 00:51:48,319
little bit of it away already, but what

1321
00:51:48,319 --> 00:51:49,920
kinds of messages are for the

1322
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,440
non-emergency and how do those get used?

1323
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,400
So similar to the protocol A there will

1324
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,079
be a town designate could be someone

1325
00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:00,960
from the recck department it could be um

1326
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,800
the business administrator we would

1327
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,800
provide again 12 and a half% of the

1328
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,160
billboard for these town it could be

1329
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:09,839
events for the town it could be the

1330
00:52:09,839 --> 00:52:11,839
fourth of July celebration it could be

1331
00:52:11,839 --> 00:52:13,359
October Fest that's coming up

1332
00:52:13,359 --> 00:52:15,040
>> could just be welcome to Redbank

1333
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:16,960
>> exactly anything for a public message

1334
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,520
that's not an emergency uh you reach out

1335
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,079
to us via the hotline and an email uh

1336
00:52:22,079 --> 00:52:23,760
you let us know what you'd like to put

1337
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,200
up. If you prefer to use your own image,

1338
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,280
we'll put that up. If you need us to

1339
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,119
design an image for you, we will work

1340
00:52:31,119 --> 00:52:33,200
with you free of charge to design that

1341
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,000
image and that message will go up on the

1342
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:36,640
billboard.

1343
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,480
>> So essentially, there'd be a municipal

1344
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,480
design who'll be the main contact and

1345
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,000
then anyone in the town that wants to

1346
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,079
have a public message put up who do

1347
00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:46,559
that. Now, in addition to the town, you

1348
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:51,280
also often you also offer non-forprofit

1349
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,200
advertising at no cost as well.

1350
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:54,000
>> That is correct.

1351
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,240
>> Okay. And let me move into what was

1352
00:52:56,240 --> 00:52:58,640
moved in as A17.

1353
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,640
>> And just one point though, the for the

1354
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,040
protocol B, the ads from the town or the

1355
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,200
images, messages uh need to be

1356
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,119
politically neutral and they cannot be

1357
00:53:07,119 --> 00:53:10,400
monetized in any way or bartered.

1358
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:12,559
So, we had handed out the public benefit

1359
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:14,319
and I'd asked the board to just take a

1360
00:53:14,319 --> 00:53:17,440
quick look at what we moved in as A17

1361
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,040
and I'm just going to walk you through

1362
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,720
it if you don't mind. So, the first is

1363
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:23,440
the emergency messaging and that gives a

1364
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,760
sample of the type of messages. So, the

1365
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:27,680
first one is an FBI announcement.

1366
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,280
>> Correct.

1367
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,319
>> The second one is an Amber Alert

1368
00:53:32,319 --> 00:53:33,680
and then they're public service

1369
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:35,760
announcements where for example that's a

1370
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,400
nonforprofit, the Valerie fund. So, you

1371
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:39,920
donate that. Correct. That's all

1372
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,760
donated. Correct. As well as Makea-Wish

1373
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,520
for New Jersey.

1374
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,079
>> The next page we have um Community Food

1375
00:53:46,079 --> 00:53:49,280
Bank of New Jersey and the Boys and

1376
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:50,880
Girls Club of New Jersey as well. These

1377
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,880
are all partners with Alfront. Uh that

1378
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,119
time is donated to. This is another one,

1379
00:53:55,119 --> 00:53:59,040
the New Jersey Move Over Slow Down Law.

1380
00:53:59,040 --> 00:53:59,760
And

1381
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,480
>> and then on page starting on page 12,

1382
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,960
you show the types of um the types of of

1383
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:08,800
billboard ads that a municipality might

1384
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:09,119
post.

1385
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:11,200
>> Correct. So this is relating to protocol

1386
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:12,880
B that we just spoke about messages for

1387
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:14,720
the townships and burrows themselves. So

1388
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:17,119
for this one, this is Stafford using it

1389
00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:19,200
uh for their help its people. Uh the

1390
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,760
next page is Dville. Uh they're a big

1391
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:23,440
user of the billboard. They like to

1392
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,040
promote their downtown and the

1393
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,359
revitalization of it. So, for example,

1394
00:54:27,359 --> 00:54:31,359
River Center could do a similar type um

1395
00:54:31,359 --> 00:54:33,599
advertising package through the burrow

1396
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:35,680
to publicize any events that might be

1397
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:37,040
happening down at the riverfront.

1398
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,520
>> Absolutely.

1399
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:40,160
>> Okay.

1400
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,319
>> And the last one is another one that the

1401
00:54:42,319 --> 00:54:44,319
township of ocean uses for their pool

1402
00:54:44,319 --> 00:54:46,480
and tennis club uh looking to sign up

1403
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,000
today. So, this is just some of the

1404
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,920
messaging that we do for local townships

1405
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,680
around the areas and throughout New

1406
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,920
Jersey. And as we said, we're offering

1407
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,319
Redbank, Burough Red Bank, uh, a full

1408
00:54:56,319 --> 00:54:58,079
dedicated spot on the billboard for

1409
00:54:58,079 --> 00:54:58,480
these.

1410
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,640
>> Okay. I I want to take a minute and I

1411
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,400
apologize, Mr. Gil. I'm going to do the

1412
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,079
other portion about the tracking last

1413
00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:05,359
because I feel like there's going to be

1414
00:55:05,359 --> 00:55:06,960
the most amount of questions for that.

1415
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:10,000
So, um, I just want to go through some

1416
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,960
of the, um, conditions that we had

1417
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:14,960
promised Kevin we would stipulate to on

1418
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,680
the record. So,

1419
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:19,200
one of the things we didn't talk about

1420
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,760
yet and that is on the exhibit marked in

1421
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,520
as A1,

1422
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:29,440
in addition to uh removing the billboard

1423
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,520
at 187 Riverside and forever giving up

1424
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,520
any rights to a billboard in that

1425
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,280
location. We have also agreed to uh get

1426
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,319
rid of eight other billboard faces and

1427
00:55:42,319 --> 00:55:44,079
not in the Redbank area. Kevin, I didn't

1428
00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:45,599
correct you then, but I'll say it now.

1429
00:55:45,599 --> 00:55:46,960
It's not in the Redbank area. It's in

1430
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,079
Redbank. Not in Shrewsbury, not in Titan

1431
00:55:50,079 --> 00:55:51,920
Falls, not in Middletown, right in

1432
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,720
Redbank. So, there's eight different

1433
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:56,000
billboards that are going to be removed,

1434
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,000
which Dan will go into.

1435
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:59,440
>> But I want to make sure. So, I'm going

1436
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:00,880
to ask you some questions, and I just

1437
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:01,920
like you to answer them.

1438
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:02,480
>> Sure.

1439
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,400
>> Does Outfront have the full and

1440
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,240
unfettered lease rights and legal

1441
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:08,319
authority to remove these billboards and

1442
00:56:08,319 --> 00:56:10,079
their support structures and abandon

1443
00:56:10,079 --> 00:56:10,880
their use?

1444
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:12,480
>> Yes.

1445
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,559
Does outfront need affirmative approval

1446
00:56:14,559 --> 00:56:16,000
from the landlords to remove these

1447
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:16,799
billboards?

1448
00:56:16,799 --> 00:56:17,359
>> No.

1449
00:56:17,359 --> 00:56:18,799
>> Because you actually own the billboard

1450
00:56:18,799 --> 00:56:19,920
structure. Is that correct?

1451
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:20,559
>> Correct.

1452
00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:22,960
>> Okay. And do you have lease rights to

1453
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,040
these billboards and they cannot and

1454
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:26,480
will not be assigned to any other

1455
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,319
individual or entity. They will be

1456
00:56:28,319 --> 00:56:29,359
extinguished.

1457
00:56:29,359 --> 00:56:30,960
>> Yes, that is correct.

1458
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,079
>> Okay. And for a period of 7 years from

1459
00:56:34,079 --> 00:56:36,400
the trigger date in the um in the

1460
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:37,680
settlement which I'll go into in a

1461
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,040
moment uh outfront agrees that for 7

1462
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,119
years there will be a moratorum on

1463
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:45,520
conversion of any static billboards to

1464
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:46,400
digital.

1465
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:46,960
>> Correct.

1466
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,440
>> Okay. So recognizing that if they ever

1467
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,640
wanted to convert a static to digital,

1468
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:53,760
they'd have to come back to the board

1469
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,280
for the use variance and go through the

1470
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:57,200
process, but they're committing they

1471
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:58,880
won't even consider filing an

1472
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:00,880
application for a minimum of seven

1473
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,200
years.

1474
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:04,960
>> Um

1475
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,400
>> I have a question about that one.

1476
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:06,799
>> Yeah.

1477
00:57:06,799 --> 00:57:09,440
>> Um we have an ordinance that says

1478
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,040
existing billboards may not be converted

1479
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:12,640
to a different type of billboard or

1480
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,839
sign. And so that that behavior that

1481
00:57:15,839 --> 00:57:18,160
converting is already prohibited by a

1482
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,400
correct we have. And so could you speak

1483
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,319
to what if if it's already prohibited

1484
00:57:22,319 --> 00:57:23,440
then what is the benefit of the

1485
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:24,000
seven-year

1486
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:25,520
>> the benefit of is it because any

1487
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,280
applicant can file a use variance

1488
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,599
application to seek approval for a

1489
00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:32,400
prohibited use. So what we're offering

1490
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,559
and what was asked by Kevin was that we

1491
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:37,599
commit that we will not seek to do that

1492
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:39,760
via application to the zoning board for

1493
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,839
use variance.

1494
00:57:41,839 --> 00:57:46,230
>> Okay.

1495
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:47,839
I have a quick question on that as well.

1496
00:57:47,839 --> 00:57:52,960
Um that pertains to all uh all land

1497
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:54,799
within Redbank and there's no exclusion

1498
00:57:54,799 --> 00:57:57,599
for say like land owned by NJ Transit or

1499
00:57:57,599 --> 00:57:59,359
this is a county road so it's not

1500
00:57:59,359 --> 00:58:00,400
technically Red Bank.

1501
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:02,160
>> That's any billboard we have. We will

1502
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,319
not and cannot make an application to

1503
00:58:04,319 --> 00:58:06,079
convert it to digital.

1504
00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:06,319
>> Got it.

1505
00:58:06,319 --> 00:58:07,680
>> And how many billboards are currently

1506
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,839
does Alfront have in Redbank?

1507
00:58:09,839 --> 00:58:12,559
Approximately before we remove him about

1508
00:58:12,559 --> 00:58:16,160
20 or 21 I think from the list correct

1509
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:17,839
>> about 20 or 21

1510
00:58:17,839 --> 00:58:18,960
>> but that's faces

1511
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:26,870
>> faces correct

1512
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,520
no it's I said eight plus Riverside

1513
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,079
which makes it nine

1514
00:58:32,079 --> 00:58:33,839
I was distinguishing between them

1515
00:58:33,839 --> 00:58:37,040
because and again it the the seven-year

1516
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:38,640
moratorum just so the board understands

1517
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,359
that came out request of the board with

1518
00:58:41,359 --> 00:58:42,559
regard to that that was part of the

1519
00:58:42,559 --> 00:58:44,319
negotiated settlement as I understand

1520
00:58:44,319 --> 00:58:47,760
it. Um

1521
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,200
so

1522
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,520
>> of those nine faces that would be

1523
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,240
removed, how many um do you already have

1524
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:56,799
a permit for the conversion to digital?

1525
00:58:56,799 --> 00:58:58,640
We know the the Riverside one, right?

1526
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,240
Which which other ones?

1527
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,720
>> Uh I believe we have permits on two of

1528
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,520
those. Uh the Oakland Street and the

1529
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,359
Riverside Avenue one.

1530
00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:12,000
Okay. So, now let's talk about tracking

1531
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,960
using gathered information. So, Kevin

1532
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:16,640
was kind enough to share some questions

1533
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,000
for me. So, I'm going to go through them

1534
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:18,799
with you.

1535
00:59:18,799 --> 00:59:19,200
>> Okay.

1536
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:22,559
>> Um, so will our digital billboard have

1537
00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:25,040
any type of device installed for data

1538
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:25,920
collection?

1539
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:27,839
>> No. The billboard is just the structure

1540
00:59:27,839 --> 00:59:30,000
itself. There is no type of hardware,

1541
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:31,839
sensor, device, anything on the

1542
00:59:31,839 --> 00:59:32,559
billboard.

1543
00:59:32,559 --> 00:59:34,640
>> So, no sensor, no beacon, no receiver,

1544
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,319
no data collection or hardware of any

1545
00:59:36,319 --> 00:59:38,160
kind. Absolutely not.

1546
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,240
>> Will there be anything on the billboard

1547
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,640
that will be able to detect, receive, or

1548
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,359
record anything from a passing phone,

1549
00:59:45,359 --> 00:59:46,799
vehicle, or person?

1550
00:59:46,799 --> 00:59:48,880
>> Absolutely not. Hold on. Just say it

1551
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:52,880
again. uh detect, receive, record

1552
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:54,160
uh information

1553
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,119
>> mobile device or personal data from any

1554
00:59:57,119 --> 01:00:00,000
passer by or and and I think you'd

1555
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,640
indicated we we have about 3,500

1556
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,839
billboards throughout and of them 117

1557
01:00:05,839 --> 01:00:08,480
static and digital. Do any of your

1558
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,240
billboards have this technology?

1559
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:11,839
>> No.

1560
01:00:11,839 --> 01:00:13,680
>> And as you said, the structure is

1561
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,160
display only, no different than a sign

1562
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:17,599
anywhere else in the burrow.

1563
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:19,040
>> Absolutely. That is correct.

1564
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,599
>> Okay. So,

1565
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:23,680
can you tell me about Smart Scout and

1566
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,119
whether or not we'll be enrolled in

1567
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:25,760
that?

1568
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,000
>> So, from my understanding, Smart Scout

1569
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,480
is a data management platform for our

1570
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:32,799
out ofome assets, our billboards that is

1571
01:00:32,799 --> 01:00:35,440
currently being phased out.

1572
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,400
Correct. Smart Scout is an outfront data

1573
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:40,640
management platform system for our out

1574
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:43,359
ofome assets, which are our billboards,

1575
01:00:43,359 --> 01:00:46,079
and it's currently being phased out. on

1576
01:00:46,079 --> 01:00:48,960
Smart Media was a brand designation that

1577
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,200
was Alfront's network of displays,

1578
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:52,160
digital displays.

1579
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,079
>> So, this wasn't collecting information.

1580
01:00:54,079 --> 01:00:56,000
This was

1581
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,160
>> it was just

1582
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,720
types of sales tools that our company

1583
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,720
uses. It's platforms. There's nothing

1584
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:04,079
from the billboard that's collecting

1585
01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:04,799
information.

1586
01:01:04,799 --> 01:01:06,559
>> Nothing to enroll in or anything like

1587
01:01:06,559 --> 01:01:06,960
that.

1588
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:08,400
>> Correct. There's nothing.

1589
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:09,760
>> So, now I want to talk to you think

1590
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:11,760
about what's at the heart of Mr. Gil's

1591
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,160
question. Um, are you familiar with the

1592
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:18,950
term geo fencing?

1593
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:20,000
» Yes, I am familiar.

1594
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,200
>> Okay. And in simplest terms, are there

1595
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,079
thirdparty analytic services that

1596
01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:28,319
collect the type of information that Mr.

1597
01:01:28,319 --> 01:01:30,960
Mass and and Mr. uh Gild Day were asking

1598
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:31,920
us about?

1599
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:32,480
>> Yes.

1600
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,319
>> Okay. We're not a part of that in any

1601
01:01:34,319 --> 01:01:36,559
way, shape, or form. That's all being

1602
01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:37,839
collected today.

1603
01:01:37,839 --> 01:01:38,799
>> That is correct.

1604
01:01:38,799 --> 01:01:40,720
>> Okay. And some of the ways that that is

1605
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:42,079
used, and I'm going to give you some

1606
01:01:42,079 --> 01:01:46,559
examples. If I have a um Starbucks

1607
01:01:46,559 --> 01:01:52,319
account and I am near a Starbucks,

1608
01:01:52,319 --> 01:01:54,240
if Starbucks is enrolled with any of

1609
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,760
these third party uh platforms, they

1610
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,760
might know that my cell phone is near a

1611
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,160
Starbucks and Neptune and might give me

1612
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,559
a targeted ad to say, "Hey, come here's

1613
01:02:04,559 --> 01:02:05,680
20% off."

1614
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,640
>> Yes, that is correct. If there is a

1615
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,960
bakery in Redbank, just a regular old

1616
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,240
building, and the bakery sees that I'm a

1617
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:16,079
regular customer there, based on the

1618
01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:18,559
fact that I join their Facebook page,

1619
01:02:18,559 --> 01:02:20,640
and they know that I'm in the area

1620
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:22,480
because my cell phone is there and this

1621
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,280
third party tracks these things, they

1622
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,280
could use that information to send me a

1623
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:28,799
text and say, "Hey, come in and we're

1624
01:02:28,799 --> 01:02:29,760
having a special."

1625
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,280
>> Yes, that is correct. And that is

1626
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:32,960
something that businesses are doing

1627
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,839
throughout the United States

1628
01:02:35,839 --> 01:02:38,079
through third-party providers,

1629
01:02:38,079 --> 01:02:38,960
>> correct?

1630
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:40,720
>> And

1631
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,599
for example, you uh order something on

1632
01:02:43,599 --> 01:02:48,079
Amazon and you get a text that says your

1633
01:02:48,079 --> 01:02:51,280
Amazon delivery is three stops away. Is

1634
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,000
that because they track every single

1635
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,920
driver because they potentially set up a

1636
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:57,760
geoence to know where it is in relation

1637
01:02:57,760 --> 01:02:59,680
to my delivery? I'd say they probably

1638
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:00,880
set up a geoence,

1639
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,160
>> right? So

1640
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,240
there is there are different analytic

1641
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,160
services that any business or any

1642
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:10,319
individual can subscribe to and then use

1643
01:03:10,319 --> 01:03:12,079
that for targeting advertising.

1644
01:03:12,079 --> 01:03:12,720
>> Correct.

1645
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,760
>> And certainly because any other business

1646
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:17,760
does in the competitive commercial

1647
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,720
world, you would participate in that as

1648
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,280
well in order to have targeted

1649
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:24,079
advertising.

1650
01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:24,720
>> Correct.

1651
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,760
>> Okay. So to how would you do that? I I

1652
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:29,200
have some questions. I mean

1653
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:31,039
>> I have some questions. Go ahead. So I

1654
01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:32,559
think the first thing is you said smart

1655
01:03:32,559 --> 01:03:34,000
scout is being phased out.

1656
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:34,559
>> Yes, that's

1657
01:03:34,559 --> 01:03:36,720
>> okay. So it would be fair for us to

1658
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:38,240
apply a condition that says that you

1659
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,960
would not use any like there would be

1660
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:41,839
>> yes

1661
01:03:41,839 --> 01:03:43,760
>> future in the future we would not allow

1662
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,880
for any type of data collection from any

1663
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,680
type of hardware or sensor or video with

1664
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:50,559
on the billboard. That would be

1665
01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:51,280
something you

1666
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,359
>> happy to accept that um I want to

1667
01:03:53,359 --> 01:03:54,559
understand what you're talking about

1668
01:03:54,559 --> 01:03:57,280
regarding geo fencing. So you said

1669
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:59,119
third-party platforms. Are you talking

1670
01:03:59,119 --> 01:04:01,440
about thirdparty data? I don't or are

1671
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,000
you talking about platforms that um

1672
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,160
external companies have and hosts in the

1673
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:08,559
cloud that you subscribe to? Like I'd

1674
01:04:08,559 --> 01:04:09,680
love to understand the disc.

1675
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,079
>> Sure. So there's a company called Placer

1676
01:04:12,079 --> 01:04:14,480
AI. Uh they're an analytic service that

1677
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:16,880
relies on aggregated and consented

1678
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:19,119
mobile location data. So from my

1679
01:04:19,119 --> 01:04:21,200
understanding, if you have a weather app

1680
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:23,760
on your phone with a GPS, you've

1681
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,000
consented to your location. Now all this

1682
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,160
is anonymous and this is just my

1683
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:29,280
understanding. I'm not

1684
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:31,839
>> because we don't do this. We just are

1685
01:04:31,839 --> 01:04:33,760
able to gather information from these

1686
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:34,160
companies.

1687
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:35,599
>> I understand. But you said that geo

1688
01:04:35,599 --> 01:04:36,880
fencing you understand is like a

1689
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:38,319
standard business practice and outfront

1690
01:04:38,319 --> 01:04:40,319
would engage in geofencing. I'm really

1691
01:04:40,319 --> 01:04:42,000
interested in how you can apply a

1692
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,079
geoence if you're not collecting network

1693
01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:46,559
data on where an asset is. And by asset

1694
01:04:46,559 --> 01:04:48,079
I mean your mobile device. So the way

1695
01:04:48,079 --> 01:04:53,920
geo fencing works is you have there's network data that's on an ass on

1696
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,559
a device on hardware and if you're going

1697
01:04:56,559 --> 01:04:59,280
to apply a geoence you need to be able

1698
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:01,599
to know what data is passing through the

1699
01:05:01,599 --> 01:05:06,160
perimeter of the geoence. So I guess I'm just curious about how you would

1700
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:09,039
have geo fencing but not um be

1701
01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:10,400
collecting data like what would be the

1702
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,240
purpose of geoencing?

1703
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:13,760
>> And this is just my understanding

1704
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:15,680
because we don't we don't do it. So it's

1705
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:17,920
my understanding that for example with

1706
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,400
the AI analytics y

1707
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,559
>> you would say

1708
01:05:22,559 --> 01:05:26,799
we'd be interested in you know if if

1709
01:05:26,799 --> 01:05:28,880
someone who

1710
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,839
likes coffee is within a mile of our

1711
01:05:31,839 --> 01:05:35,520
billboard and so they would

1712
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,760
tell us when someone who likes coffee is

1713
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:38,799
within a mile of our billboard.

1714
01:05:38,799 --> 01:05:39,839
>> But you all don't engage in that

1715
01:05:39,839 --> 01:05:41,359
practice. Absolutely. And you'd be very

1716
01:05:41,359 --> 01:05:42,640
comfortable putting in a condition that

1717
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:44,000
says but you would not ever use any

1718
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:45,680
first party or third party data to

1719
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:46,799
personalize advertising.

1720
01:05:46,799 --> 01:05:49,359
>> No, no, no. The what I had indicated was

1721
01:05:49,359 --> 01:05:52,160
just like any other business has the

1722
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,640
ability to use third party data to

1723
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:57,760
target advertising.

1724
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:01,839
>> But how I I guess I'm confused about h

1725
01:06:01,839 --> 01:06:04,480
how could you personalize it if you're

1726
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:07,440
not collecting data on who's in your

1727
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,839
geoence? So you have third party data on

1728
01:06:09,839 --> 01:06:12,640
me. I like Starbucks. So I'm driving by

1729
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,280
and you you flash up a Starbucks ad. How

1730
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,839
do you know to put a Starbucks ad up if

1731
01:06:17,839 --> 01:06:19,119
you're not collecting data on the fact

1732
01:06:19,119 --> 01:06:20,160
that I'm within the geo?

1733
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,079
>> So it's not you personally. So I think

1734
01:06:22,079 --> 01:06:24,240
what what the issue is is let's say for

1735
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,160
example

1736
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,680
we ask place or AI

1737
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:31,760
how many people drive by that like

1738
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:35,839
coffee and they say none.

1739
01:06:35,839 --> 01:06:38,079
>> Okay. So, Outfront Media does use third

1740
01:06:38,079 --> 01:06:39,839
party data to personalize.

1741
01:06:39,839 --> 01:06:42,000
>> Correct. Which is what I indicated from

1742
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:44,079
the beginning, just like every other

1743
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:46,559
business in modern times does.

1744
01:06:46,559 --> 01:06:46,960
>> Yeah.

1745
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:50,319
>> So, just like Starbucks, when they know

1746
01:06:50,319 --> 01:06:52,799
that I'm within a mile of a Starbucks,

1747
01:06:52,799 --> 01:06:54,640
lo and behold, I'll get a popup ad on

1748
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:56,400
Facebook. But it's not just like that,

1749
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:57,839
though, because Starbucks

1750
01:06:57,839 --> 01:06:58,559
>> to me,

1751
01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:00,400
>> right? But Starbucks, the way Starbucks

1752
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:01,839
does that is they're reacting to the

1753
01:07:01,839 --> 01:07:04,720
fact that they know that you personally

1754
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:07,839
are within. So they're using first party

1755
01:07:07,839 --> 01:07:10,880
data which is distinct from third party

1756
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:12,880
data. So it's not So that Starbucks

1757
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:14,160
example is not a good example.

1758
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:15,039
>> Well then I apologize.

1759
01:07:15,039 --> 01:07:16,000
>> Oh no it's okay. I just want to make

1760
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:16,960
sure I understand.

1761
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:19,440
>> I have limited knowledge on this. Y

1762
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:21,520
>> and this issue was only shared with us

1763
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,079
this question three days ago. So we did

1764
01:07:24,079 --> 01:07:25,599
as much as we could to get you the

1765
01:07:25,599 --> 01:07:28,319
answer. But no we're not using first.

1766
01:07:28,319 --> 01:07:29,839
We're not sending things to your phone.

1767
01:07:29,839 --> 01:07:33,039
>> You're not collecting data. Yeah. No

1768
01:07:33,039 --> 01:07:34,640
we're not sending to your phone. None of

1769
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:35,520
that.

1770
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:35,920
>> Okay.

1771
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:37,839
>> If we find from this third party data

1772
01:07:37,839 --> 01:07:42,079
that a lot of a a lot of uh

1773
01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:44,880
>> soccer moms drive by our

1774
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:46,880
>> promote the soccer to do a soccer thing.

1775
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:47,440
>> Yeah. Sure.

1776
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:49,760
>> No first party, nothing targeted to an

1777
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:51,599
individual. Okay. It's more gathering

1778
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:53,920
the data. So, for example, if an

1779
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,319
advertiser for a pizza place comes in,

1780
01:07:56,319 --> 01:07:58,319
we can say, "Yeah, we have people that

1781
01:07:58,319 --> 01:07:59,920
like to go out to eat a lot."

1782
01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:02,000
>> You know, that kind of thing. Nothing

1783
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,640
individual, nothing first party targeted

1784
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:08,079
that we can commit to 150%. We don't do

1785
01:08:08,079 --> 01:08:09,920
it now. We have no intention of ever

1786
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:11,520
doing it because we don't have the

1787
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:13,119
ability to collect that information.

1788
01:08:13,119 --> 01:08:13,520
>> Okay.

1789
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:15,280
>> Correct. It's just a display. It's just

1790
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,279
a structure. There's no hardware or

1791
01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:19,040
devices on it whatsoever.

1792
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:20,799
>> And perhaps when this hearing is over,

1793
01:08:20,799 --> 01:08:22,239
personally, you can

1794
01:08:22,239 --> 01:08:23,759
>> share some of your insight a little more

1795
01:08:23,759 --> 01:08:25,600
with me because I don't understand it to

1796
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:27,359
the level that you do. So, thank you.

1797
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:29,920
Yeah, one one maybe educational just

1798
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:31,679
point for the group on Placer AI. Just

1799
01:08:31,679 --> 01:08:33,920
reading from a website, Placer AI is a

1800
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:35,600
cutting edge online service that uses

1801
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,080
anonymously sourced mobile location data

1802
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:39,839
to calculate the number of active cell

1803
01:08:39,839 --> 01:08:41,520
phones in any locality during a

1804
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:43,520
specified time. That is from the

1805
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:46,000
Riverenter announcement announcing that

1806
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,239
River Center is using Placer AI to track

1807
01:08:48,239 --> 01:08:52,000
footfall in Redbank. So Placer AI is

1808
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,480
being used already by the burrow just to

1809
01:08:54,480 --> 01:08:56,239
make sure everybody understands. No. And

1810
01:08:56,239 --> 01:08:57,600
I appreciate that.

1811
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:58,799
>> Yeah. I think one of the

1812
01:08:58,799 --> 01:09:00,880
>> And just Mr. Haritz, just you you took

1813
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,120
that. Oh, Mr. Fitzger, you're right.

1814
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,080
Well, I know he's not Anna. That I know.

1815
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,520
>> Um, Mr. Fitzgerald, I apologize. You

1816
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:11,120
took that from which website? Just so

1817
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:17,749
the record's clear.

1818
01:09:17,759 --> 01:09:20,159
Okay. And Redbank River Center is part

1819
01:09:20,159 --> 01:09:22,719
of of Redbank. So, the burrow the burrow

1820
01:09:22,719 --> 01:09:23,920
is geo fencing.

1821
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:24,400
>> Yes.

1822
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:27,600
>> Okay. Thank you. I wish I had known that

1823
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:29,120
before coming in. I could have made this

1824
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,159
a lot easier on all of us.

1825
01:09:32,159 --> 01:09:35,920
>> So I understand that um the we are doing

1826
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,159
targeted uh advertisement placement. It

1827
01:09:38,159 --> 01:09:40,000
just happens via the third party and and

1828
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:41,359
it's anonymized. Right.

1829
01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:41,839
>> Correct.

1830
01:09:41,839 --> 01:09:45,440
>> But one of my uh concerns with the use

1831
01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:47,520
of this site versus some of the other

1832
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,560
examples that were given is when I have

1833
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,719
um and to your point, every business is

1834
01:09:52,719 --> 01:09:54,080
doing this, right? like I work for

1835
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:57,920
business, they're doing it and um it

1836
01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:59,360
when you receive usually when you

1837
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:01,040
receive an ad say on your personal

1838
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:02,880
device, the experience is personal,

1839
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:04,480
right? Like I'm looking at my device, I

1840
01:10:04,480 --> 01:10:06,320
get a targeted ad. We've all had the

1841
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:07,600
experience of getting a targeted ad

1842
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,199
that's like really kind of feels creepy

1843
01:10:09,199 --> 01:10:10,640
because it's so well targeted. It works

1844
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:12,239
very well, right?

1845
01:10:12,239 --> 01:10:15,120
>> Um but it's one thing when it's on my

1846
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:16,800
phone and it's another thing when it's

1847
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:18,800
on a very large site. And that's where I

1848
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:21,040
think the privacy concern comes from

1849
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:23,760
because if you're and I understand the d

1850
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:25,760
the targeting is anonym based on

1851
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,400
anonymized data. If I'm on the turnpike

1852
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:29,920
there's thousands of cars passing by the

1853
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:31,920
digital billboards there. You know

1854
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:34,640
you're one of person in a sea of

1855
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,520
targets. In a very small town when I'm

1856
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:39,679
at this intersection or or when I'm

1857
01:10:39,679 --> 01:10:42,320
driving by the proposed site I may be

1858
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:46,080
one of five one of 20 cars. And then for

1859
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,960
a an advertisement to be targeted to me

1860
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,920
in that scenario, it feels a bit more

1861
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:53,840
invasive. It's like putting my browser

1862
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:55,600
history on a screen.

1863
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,040
>> I I don't think it's going to be

1864
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:58,400
targeted to you. I think it's going to

1865
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,280
be targeted to certain demographics.

1866
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:04,320
Whereas the Facebook ads are if I search

1867
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:07,040
pink sweater, every Facebook ad I get is

1868
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:08,400
going to be about pink sweaters going

1869
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:10,239
forward. As if they heard me. If I say

1870
01:11:10,239 --> 01:11:11,280
something to my friends about a

1871
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:14,159
restaurant, it'll all show up there. I

1872
01:11:14,159 --> 01:11:16,000
think if I understand it because the way

1873
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:17,920
that this programming works, it's not as

1874
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:21,520
if a um it's not as if a advertiser

1875
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,320
calls and says, "Hey, this popped up, so

1876
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:26,640
can you quick run an ad because Mr.

1877
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:29,440
Gild's driving by?" These are these are

1878
01:11:29,440 --> 01:11:30,960
pre-established

1879
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:32,640
advertisements, right? It sends my

1880
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:35,679
profile over, right? Like it's, you

1881
01:11:35,679 --> 01:11:36,640
know, this is a

1882
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:39,360
>> it's not moment. It's it it isn't done

1883
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,080
>> instantaneously. like it won't if you

1884
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:43,760
drive by it it's not going to put up an

1885
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:45,040
ad that it potentially

1886
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:46,800
>> today but we were asking to be grant a

1887
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:48,719
variance that is indefinite and

1888
01:11:48,719 --> 01:11:50,159
technology keeps changing

1889
01:11:50,159 --> 01:11:53,280
>> we are not so again we are not proposing

1890
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:56,480
any tracking technology on this

1891
01:11:56,480 --> 01:11:57,360
billboard

1892
01:11:57,360 --> 01:11:57,920
>> at all

1893
01:11:57,920 --> 01:11:58,719
>> I understand

1894
01:11:58,719 --> 01:12:01,440
>> so whatever these third party

1895
01:12:01,440 --> 01:12:03,600
organizations are going to be regulated

1896
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:05,280
and I spoke at length with Kevin about

1897
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,199
this whatever state and federal laws are

1898
01:12:07,199 --> 01:12:10,320
in place and privacy laws so again we're

1899
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,719
not targeting to individuals. We are not

1900
01:12:12,719 --> 01:12:14,880
going to know on our billboard when

1901
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,360
you're coming by. So, let's put that ad

1902
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:21,760
up. What we will know is is that

1903
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:23,600
this number of people went by, so we

1904
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:25,440
think it's a great idea to advertise

1905
01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:26,400
this.

1906
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,239
>> So, this I I think this is a plausible

1907
01:12:28,239 --> 01:12:30,400
scenario. If

1908
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:33,120
you could receive information that um

1909
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,640
you know enough the audience in the area

1910
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:39,920
at a given time um has this skin

1911
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,239
condition so you should advertise you

1912
01:12:42,239 --> 01:12:43,440
know this medicine to them. That would

1913
01:12:43,440 --> 01:12:47,760
be the algorithm determining that and

1914
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:49,760
the audience is subject to how many

1915
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:52,000
people are in that geoence. And so my

1916
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:55,360
point is in a small town that can be a

1917
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:57,360
concern if it says this audience and

1918
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:00,800
that audience is 10 people has this

1919
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:01,760
characteristic.

1920
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:04,000
>> So I guess the the question that I have

1921
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:08,000
in return is if it's fully anonymous

1922
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,159
and it is not individually or first

1923
01:13:10,159 --> 01:13:12,320
party targeted.

1924
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,400
How is that concerning? Wouldn't you

1925
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,320
want the advertising that you see to be

1926
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:18,800
targeted to what you're interested in or

1927
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:20,000
what you're looking for? I mean, isn't

1928
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,640
that the very purpose of advertising to

1929
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:25,840
reach a certain audience? So,

1930
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:28,880
this is just the way that we achieve it

1931
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:32,640
like any other business. You know,

1932
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:35,040
Kevin, may I quote you from our

1933
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:36,560
conversation or no, you'd prefer me not

1934
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:36,800
to?

1935
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,239
>> You absolutely can. I don't know what I

1936
01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:39,440
said, but yes.

1937
01:13:39,440 --> 01:13:41,199
But he when we discussed this and I

1938
01:13:41,199 --> 01:13:42,640
explained to him what it is, he goes,

1939
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:44,320
"Well, if all businesses are able to use

1940
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:47,199
it, you'd be crazy not to

1941
01:13:47,199 --> 01:13:49,120
as long as you stay within the confines

1942
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:52,239
of the legal parameters for this type of

1943
01:13:52,239 --> 01:13:56,470
use. So,

1944
01:13:56,480 --> 01:13:58,480
we're not asking you to we're asking you

1945
01:13:58,480 --> 01:14:00,320
for a digital billboard. We're not

1946
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:01,760
asking you to allow us to put up

1947
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:04,159
tracking information of any way, shape,

1948
01:14:04,159 --> 01:14:06,400
or form. But certainly I would think

1949
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:08,000
that if you were going to grant this

1950
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:09,760
approval, you couldn't discriminate

1951
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:12,239
against us when every other business in

1952
01:14:12,239 --> 01:14:14,320
town is allowed to do it as well.

1953
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:16,320
>> Well, I think it's it's the use. It's

1954
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,560
the site and the use that feels

1955
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:19,679
different, right? Because if other

1956
01:14:19,679 --> 01:14:21,760
businesses are sending me personalized

1957
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:23,840
experiences on my personal device,

1958
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:25,199
that's different from a public

1959
01:14:25,199 --> 01:14:25,520
experience.

1960
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:27,360
>> We are not sending you personalized.

1961
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:29,199
>> I know that. Yeah. And I would argue

1962
01:14:29,199 --> 01:14:31,679
that a digital billboard is not

1963
01:14:31,679 --> 01:14:33,440
personalized based on the amount of

1964
01:14:33,440 --> 01:14:37,199
traffic that goes back and forth on uh

1965
01:14:37,199 --> 01:14:39,679
Newman Springs Road. So it's not

1966
01:14:39,679 --> 01:14:45,679
personalized. It's not first party and

1967
01:14:45,679 --> 01:14:48,080
>> I am offer kind of just to like deepen

1968
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:49,520
that line of questioning though. So I'm

1969
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:50,880
curious about what kind of categories

1970
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:52,640
you all use for the third party data.

1971
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:54,320
Obviously mobile location data which I

1972
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:56,000
think we've established yeah pretty much

1973
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:57,760
everyone does it. I'm assuming

1974
01:14:57,760 --> 01:14:58,960
demographic segments because we

1975
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,760
mentioned soccer moms. Um device

1976
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:07,440
identifiers, household data, um gender,

1977
01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:11,360
age, income, like what what do we have a

1978
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:13,440
sense for that?

1979
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:16,480
>> I I and I'm also assuming that it is

1980
01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:18,000
specific to the location. It's not like

1981
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:20,159
it's specific to Redbank. So Red Bank's

1982
01:15:20,159 --> 01:15:21,199
going to see something different from

1983
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:22,239
what like

1984
01:15:22,239 --> 01:15:23,679
>> Well, every billboard and every

1985
01:15:23,679 --> 01:15:25,840
municipality is different depending on

1986
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,000
because the at the end of the day,

1987
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:31,120
>> we aren't generating ads and we are not

1988
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,040
um we're not the ones making them and

1989
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:35,120
>> deciding you're just getting the data

1990
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:36,159
and then

1991
01:15:36,159 --> 01:15:38,400
>> No, no, we're not getting the data.

1992
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:39,920
>> I mean, for the third party data that

1993
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:40,560
you all

1994
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:42,560
>> Well, we we gather the data and so when

1995
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,239
people come to us and want to advertise

1996
01:15:44,239 --> 01:15:46,719
with us, we're able to say

1997
01:15:46,719 --> 01:15:49,440
>> we have this many people go by Correct.

1998
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:51,280
Yeah, we're just putting the image up.

1999
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:51,679
We're not

2000
01:15:51,679 --> 01:15:53,280
>> Yeah, we're putting the image up based

2001
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:55,040
on what the advertisers want to put

2002
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:57,840
there. It very well may be that every

2003
01:15:57,840 --> 01:15:59,679
that the advertisers themselves

2004
01:15:59,679 --> 01:16:00,800
subscribe to this.

2005
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:01,440
>> Yeah.

2006
01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:03,840
>> And say, I want to put this ad up at

2007
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,320
5:00 because it's the busiest time. But

2008
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:08,800
again, I don't have specific details as

2009
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:11,040
to this because it's really not related

2010
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:12,800
anything other than business practices.

2011
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,600
It's not specific to the billboard use.

2012
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:17,120
Well, I think that it's really relevant

2013
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:18,560
because there's a lot of established New

2014
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:21,600
Jersey case law around privacy and

2015
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:24,080
consent and some of the characteristics

2016
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:26,480
for data categories are perfectly

2017
01:16:26,480 --> 01:16:29,120
adequate under New Jersey state law. Um,

2018
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:30,719
but there are other categories that are

2019
01:16:30,719 --> 01:16:32,239
not. So, I think that for due diligence

2020
01:16:32,239 --> 01:16:33,520
for the town of Redbank, we want to make

2021
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:34,800
sure that our citizens are protected

2022
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:36,480
around what categories constitute

2023
01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:38,960
private. So what I can commit to is

2024
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:41,280
>> is that we will abide by the state law

2025
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:43,600
and the federal law as it relates to

2026
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:44,719
privacy.

2027
01:16:44,719 --> 01:16:46,800
>> 100% would commit to that

2028
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:48,800
>> and and local if there are local

2029
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:51,520
>> of course if there was anything but 100%

2030
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:52,560
we would commit to it.

2031
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:53,360
>> Okay. Great.

2032
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:55,199
>> And we would have to because again it

2033
01:16:55,199 --> 01:16:56,960
would affect our DOT permitting. It

2034
01:16:56,960 --> 01:16:57,600
didn't.

2035
01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:00,719
>> Yep. Okay.

2036
01:17:00,719 --> 01:17:02,400
So essentially what happens with these

2037
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:05,679
billboards is you have a mix of ads that

2038
01:17:05,679 --> 01:17:07,280
you know there's a lot of auto people on

2039
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:09,679
that street and so probably people doing

2040
01:17:09,679 --> 01:17:12,719
auto ads for the Volvo whatever Nissan

2041
01:17:12,719 --> 01:17:14,880
but also within it you would also might

2042
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:18,239
have customized ads where you'd be

2043
01:17:18,239 --> 01:17:19,920
looking for advertisers that are hitting

2044
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:21,360
certain demographics. So you'd have a

2045
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:24,719
mix of of ads. Some would be specific

2046
01:17:24,719 --> 01:17:26,320
businesses because they're there. Some

2047
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:28,880
would be trying to reach the demographic

2048
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:33,280
that's driving by. So again it's it's not as targeted as it's being

2049
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:36,159
described for example and and without

2050
01:17:36,159 --> 01:17:37,679
admittedly

2051
01:17:37,679 --> 01:17:39,840
>> without understanding the depth in which

2052
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,000
this is done one will commit to it but

2053
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:44,480
it's not instantaneous. So for example

2054
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:47,760
if if an advertiser comes and says I'm

2055
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:49,920
interested in advertising with you then

2056
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:51,840
you could say well here's this data that

2057
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:54,080
was collected by someone else for you to

2058
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:55,360
analyze and decide if you want to

2059
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:59,760
advertise with us or not. So it again

2060
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:01,520
I agree with Mr. Gilde. It'll be

2061
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:03,360
everchanging. The laws will be ever

2062
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:05,360
changing. But what we can commit to is

2063
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:07,920
one we will abide by any of the

2064
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:09,920
regulations as it relates to that and

2065
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,320
privacy. And we will commit that we will

2066
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:15,920
do no such gathering of any information

2067
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:17,280
certainly not on our billboard

2068
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:20,709
structure.

2069
01:18:20,719 --> 01:18:23,840
» To to maybe put it a different way or or

2070
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,000
get a little different perspective on

2071
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:27,520
the information. I think we're hoping to

2072
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:29,360
understand. So for a normal paid

2073
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:31,040
advertiser, so a lot of the billboards

2074
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:32,400
around town right now, like a doctor's

2075
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:34,000
office or a realtor who is here, so

2076
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:37,600
assume a realtor takes out an ad for

2077
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:40,000
12.5% of the time on this digital

2078
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:42,560
billboard. What are some of the data and

2079
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:44,960
insights they will receive about the

2080
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:46,400
performance of their advertising

2081
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:48,719
campaign at the end of that campaign,

2082
01:18:48,719 --> 01:18:50,800
say for a month it runs? Is it number of

2083
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:52,960
impressions? Is it

2084
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:54,480
>> my understanding that it's number of

2085
01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:56,239
impressions? I'm not involved in the

2086
01:18:56,239 --> 01:18:57,920
sales department. Uh I'm just in the

2087
01:18:57,920 --> 01:18:59,520
real estate department. So, but I

2088
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:02,080
believe correct that it's impressions.

2089
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:03,199
That's what they're looking for.

2090
01:19:03,199 --> 01:19:05,600
>> You paid us, you know, whatever $3,000.

2091
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:08,640
It ran for a month and 50,000 people saw

2092
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:12,960
it. We know that 50,000 number because

2093
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:16,159
that's one time we had someone track how

2094
01:19:16,159 --> 01:19:17,920
many cars go by on a daily basis. And we

2095
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:20,560
did that times 30. is that 50,000

2096
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:22,400
generated by Placer AI and these

2097
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:23,920
anonymized

2098
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,000
um data points coming in and out and

2099
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:27,920
that changes in real time. I think maybe

2100
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:30,239
we just want to understand what level of

2101
01:19:30,239 --> 01:19:32,000
data an advertiser might receive and

2102
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,560
therefore could optimize off of and it's

2103
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:36,000
okay if we don't have more detailed

2104
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:37,199
information right now, but I think

2105
01:19:37,199 --> 01:19:38,560
that's just what maybe the group is

2106
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,280
looking to understand more.

2107
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:42,239
>> Okay.

2108
01:19:42,239 --> 01:19:43,760
>> Yeah. I don't I don't like I'm I'm not

2109
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:45,120
involved in the sales and

2110
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:47,360
>> so at minimum number of impressions how

2111
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:49,679
many people saw your ad while it ran

2112
01:19:49,679 --> 01:19:54,149
>> right and again

2113
01:19:54,159 --> 01:19:56,960
we don't want to be handicapped

2114
01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:00,080
as to be not not competitive in any type

2115
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:04,560
of industry. So, uh-oh,

2116
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:07,360
we're not collecting anything. Just like

2117
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:09,760
if I have a website, there's a record of

2118
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:11,440
who came to the website and who didn't

2119
01:20:11,440 --> 01:20:12,880
come to the website, how many viewers

2120
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:16,719
you had. That's essentially what's, as I

2121
01:20:16,719 --> 01:20:18,800
understand it, what's happening here.

2122
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:21,520
Um, but again, we will abide by whatever

2123
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:23,520
the legal requirements are as it relates

2124
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:25,920
to this data and the privacy not only of

2125
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:27,760
the citizens of Redbank for, but for

2126
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:33,120
anybody who's coming by the sign. And it and it's no different than than a

2127
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:35,280
non-static than a than a non-digital

2128
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:38,239
billboard. That could be done. It's

2129
01:20:38,239 --> 01:20:39,760
likely being done even on static

2130
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:41,280
billboards. You get an understanding as

2131
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,120
to who's coming by the billboard. So

2132
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:44,800
then when you want to sell it for the

2133
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:46,880
month, you can say this is the number of

2134
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:48,000
people who pass by.

2135
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:49,920
>> Correct. It's again, it is just a

2136
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:52,320
structure. It's just a screen that's

2137
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:54,080
putting out an image where the canvas

2138
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:57,600
and the advertisers are the painters. I think it is different though because

2139
01:20:57,600 --> 01:20:59,120
you can change it every 8 seconds which

2140
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:02,080
allows you to respond dynamically to the

2141
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:04,159
audience versus making these decisions

2142
01:21:04,159 --> 01:21:05,520
well in advance as you do with the

2143
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:06,960
static billboard.

2144
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:09,360
>> So as Jen said, there's nothing that

2145
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:10,880
we're collecting from the billboard

2146
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:12,880
itself. So we don't know, we can't just

2147
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:14,800
automatically put out a new image

2148
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:16,480
because you drove past it or someone

2149
01:21:16,480 --> 01:21:18,320
else drove past it. These ads are

2150
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:21,199
purchased in advance by the advertisers.

2151
01:21:21,199 --> 01:21:23,199
They're not purchased split seconds

2152
01:21:23,199 --> 01:21:25,360
prior to someone driving by.

2153
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:27,760
But that's a matter of like your policy

2154
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:29,840
and procedures and what the board is

2155
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:31,520
being asked to consider

2156
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:36,000
>> is a large sign that is connected to be

2157
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:38,400
remotely controlled by people or

2158
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,520
algorithms or AI or etc. Right? So I

2159
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:42,960
mean would we have to put in our

2160
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:44,960
conditions that you know that's how you

2161
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:47,920
sell ads from now and forever?

2162
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:50,800
>> I I don't understand. I think the

2163
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:52,480
question is kind of if the third party

2164
01:21:52,480 --> 01:21:54,480
data changes because it's it's

2165
01:21:54,480 --> 01:21:56,159
programmatic, right? And it's

2166
01:21:56,159 --> 01:21:58,080
increasingly AI driven. So you have

2167
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:01,679
information about who's passing by

2168
01:22:01,679 --> 01:22:03,120
if you're and you mentioned there's no

2169
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:04,719
real time. So I'll I'll assume

2170
01:22:04,719 --> 01:22:06,159
>> as far as I understand. Okay.

2171
01:22:06,159 --> 01:22:07,120
>> No, there's no real.

2172
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:09,360
>> Okay. But so if the third party data

2173
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:11,920
changes because it's the holidays and so

2174
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:13,120
all of a sudden a lot of people are in

2175
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:16,639
from out of town and you know does that

2176
01:22:16,639 --> 01:22:18,400
change what the advertising content is

2177
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:19,920
displayed in real time or does it just

2178
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:22,560
inform advanced campaign planning?

2179
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:24,480
>> It it would have to inform advanced c

2180
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:25,679
campaign. Okay.

2181
01:22:25,679 --> 01:22:27,920
>> I mean these advertisers buy them

2182
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:30,080
>> buy it based on exactly right what they

2183
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:31,920
know. And then um one other question

2184
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:33,840
just is the optimization and the third

2185
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:35,760
party data is it used on an individual

2186
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:38,800
level or a household level?

2187
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:40,320
I don't even know that I understand the

2188
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:41,199
difference between.

2189
01:22:41,199 --> 01:22:44,320
>> So if my child is connected to my third

2190
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:46,239
party data as a household because of

2191
01:22:46,239 --> 01:22:48,239
course the data provider knows that I

2192
01:22:48,239 --> 01:22:51,360
have two kids and where we live. Will my

2193
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,480
son see ads? Will that is is that like

2194
01:22:54,480 --> 01:22:57,199
is the data aggregated based on me?

2195
01:22:57,199 --> 01:22:59,040
>> It it's anonymized. There is no

2196
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:01,199
individualization in the in the third

2197
01:23:01,199 --> 01:23:01,920
party data.

2198
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:03,760
>> So it's to it's it's aggregated.

2199
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:04,159
>> Yes.

2200
01:23:04,159 --> 01:23:04,719
>> Absolutely.

2201
01:23:04,719 --> 01:23:06,880
>> Yeah. That was what that that was what I

2202
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:08,719
think we started with verbatim that it

2203
01:23:08,719 --> 01:23:12,000
is an aggregated consent mobile location

2204
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:13,840
data. Got it.

2205
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:16,639
>> So an advertiser would know based on

2206
01:23:16,639 --> 01:23:19,280
publicly available data like right

2207
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:21,040
there's this many children that live in

2208
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:23,600
Redbank. Therefore I might want to place

2209
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,560
an ad for my toy company on this

2210
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:28,159
billboard. That is something someone

2211
01:23:28,159 --> 01:23:30,719
could do. Suppose

2212
01:23:30,719 --> 01:23:32,880
if River Center is using it and the

2213
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:35,520
burrow is using it.

2214
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:37,760
I'm not sure what the distinction is

2215
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:39,840
here. It is being

2216
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:42,639
>> it is it is being used everywhere.

2217
01:23:42,639 --> 01:23:46,159
Everything you do it's so again

2218
01:23:46,159 --> 01:23:48,159
>> we are not collecting anything. It's

2219
01:23:48,159 --> 01:23:50,000
anonymous. It's not individually

2220
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:53,920
targeted. That I can commit to.

2221
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:56,480
I think I can try to clarify that the at

2222
01:23:56,480 --> 01:23:58,000
least I don't know about the other

2223
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:00,000
members of the board, but my concern is

2224
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:02,080
not that you're doing something unique

2225
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:04,480
or that you're collecting data or that

2226
01:24:04,480 --> 01:24:06,480
you even have the names of people,

2227
01:24:06,480 --> 01:24:07,679
right? I know I understand it's all

2228
01:24:07,679 --> 01:24:10,400
anonymized and my concern is really that

2229
01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:13,760
the experience of the targeted ad is

2230
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:16,159
public and on display and responsive to

2231
01:24:16,159 --> 01:24:17,920
the audience and that audience can be

2232
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:21,040
small enough to raise a privacy concern.

2233
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,920
>> Okay. I I we can as as Kevin liked to

2234
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:26,639
say, we can agree to disagree. Um I

2235
01:24:26,639 --> 01:24:29,040
understand your position, but it's no

2236
01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:32,239
different than um if the burrow were to

2237
01:24:32,239 --> 01:24:34,480
put up a little, you know, one of those

2238
01:24:34,480 --> 01:24:36,400
little screens with the scrolling that

2239
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:39,199
goes through it or Count Bassy scrolling

2240
01:24:39,199 --> 01:24:41,360
that goes through it. They also have

2241
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:43,040
availability to use this data. We know

2242
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:44,960
the bureau is already using it. Perhaps

2243
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:46,880
the bureau is sharing it with Count Basy

2244
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:50,880
and those scrolls that go through are I

2245
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:52,480
don't believe it's a privacy issue and I

2246
01:24:52,480 --> 01:24:53,600
certainly don't think it's a privacy

2247
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:55,520
issue that would in any in any way

2248
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:57,600
violate any

2249
01:24:57,600 --> 01:24:58,400
>> federal

2250
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:00,480
>> No, I don't think it's legal. So,

2251
01:25:00,480 --> 01:25:02,960
>> so what we're what we're doing here is

2252
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:04,719
trying to determine what exactly is

2253
01:25:04,719 --> 01:25:06,639
going to happen with the billboard and

2254
01:25:06,639 --> 01:25:08,960
what it's going to be like because this

2255
01:25:08,960 --> 01:25:11,040
is a town where people scrutinize

2256
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:13,040
everything that the government does and

2257
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:15,120
everything on every corner, every little

2258
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:17,120
hole in the wall, every little pothole,

2259
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:20,000
a light is left on. So, we need to

2260
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:21,679
understand and also flesh out in the

2261
01:25:21,679 --> 01:25:23,040
hearing what actually is going to happen

2262
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:24,480
with that billboard and what it's really

2263
01:25:24,480 --> 01:25:26,400
going to be doing that.

2264
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:28,320
>> But, no, but I'm not I'm not asking your

2265
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:29,840
question. I'm making a statement. So,

2266
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:30,960
I'm just saying that what we're trying

2267
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:33,199
to do is why we're asking all these

2268
01:25:33,199 --> 01:25:34,960
questions because very informed people

2269
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:36,960
who understand these things. So, we want

2270
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:38,400
to understand exactly what we're getting

2271
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:39,840
and exactly what's going to happen. And

2272
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:41,520
it's a way of informing the public who

2273
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:44,080
may be watching this. There's reporters

2274
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:46,400
here so people understand what's coming

2275
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:48,480
and that we fleshed out what's coming to

2276
01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:49,840
the town. That's what we're doing.

2277
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:51,520
>> And I appreciate that, Mr. Havens. I can

2278
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:54,560
tell you is my office is across the

2279
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:56,719
highway from a billboard that a digital

2280
01:25:56,719 --> 01:25:59,360
billboard that I go by every single day.

2281
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:01,600
Not once, and it's an outfront

2282
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:04,480
billboard. Not once has there ever been

2283
01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:08,159
an ad that flashed that was in any way

2284
01:26:08,159 --> 01:26:12,880
related to any demographic data of mine.

2285
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:15,520
That I can tell you for sure. And I pass

2286
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:18,639
it every day, twice a day.

2287
01:26:18,639 --> 01:26:19,920
>> Yeah. Yeah, I think if I could also

2288
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:22,560
clarify the the reason I'm asking these

2289
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:24,560
questions is because we have an

2290
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:28,480
ordinance that um pertains to billboards

2291
01:26:28,480 --> 01:26:30,080
and signs and it's I'm going to read it

2292
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:32,560
just so it's clear. It it's actually the

2293
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:36,719
very first um section of our 490-104

2294
01:26:36,719 --> 01:26:40,719
uh ordinance for signs and it says uh a

2295
01:26:40,719 --> 01:26:42,800
sub or subsection a1 to protect the

2296
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:44,320
public health, safety and welfare by

2297
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:45,679
restricting signs which impair the

2298
01:26:45,679 --> 01:26:47,440
public's ability to receive information

2299
01:26:47,440 --> 01:26:49,920
violate privacy or which increase the

2300
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:51,360
probability of accidents by distracting

2301
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:53,199
attention or obstructing vision. And so

2302
01:26:53,199 --> 01:26:54,960
I'm focusing on the violate privacy one

2303
01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:57,120
because this is the ordinance that you

2304
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,120
are here asking for relief from.

2305
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:01,600
>> Correct. and and our position is is that

2306
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:04,480
the anonymity of it is in no way an

2307
01:27:04,480 --> 01:27:09,430
invasion of privacy.

2308
01:27:09,440 --> 01:27:10,480
» Okay.

2309
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:15,040
>> Is is there a time frame in advance that

2310
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:17,440
the messages the messages are pre

2311
01:27:17,440 --> 01:27:19,280
pre-prepare?

2312
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:20,880
>> I think it is. Okay. Is that better?

2313
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:21,920
>> Yeah, you just got cop.

2314
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:25,760
>> Thank you. So is there if the messages

2315
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:27,840
are pre-prepared

2316
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:31,440
and pre-esigned is there a time frame in

2317
01:27:31,440 --> 01:27:36,080
advance of their display that

2318
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:38,960
you know in other words like for example

2319
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:40,800
all ads to appear on the 15th of the

2320
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:42,480
month must be completed by the first of

2321
01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:45,040
the month something like that so that we

2322
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:46,960
know that there's some sort of

2323
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:48,800
information with respect to how far in

2324
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:51,840
advance the schedule of ads of course

2325
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:54,159
minus miss any emergency situations but

2326
01:27:54,159 --> 01:27:57,679
the schedule of advertising is prepared

2327
01:27:57,679 --> 01:27:59,520
and

2328
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:01,840
finalized with an outfront.

2329
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:04,800
So my understanding is that the

2330
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:06,800
advertisers purchase there's a sales

2331
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:08,639
contract from what I understand. So they

2332
01:28:08,639 --> 01:28:12,159
purchase let's say from January 1st to

2333
01:28:12,159 --> 01:28:15,520
March 15th there. To your point it

2334
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:17,199
doesn't I don't know if it needs to be

2335
01:28:17,199 --> 01:28:19,040
at a certain point like you need to get

2336
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:22,239
us the image prior to this date. Once

2337
01:28:22,239 --> 01:28:24,239
they purchase their contract, they then

2338
01:28:24,239 --> 01:28:25,920
provide, I believe, the sales and the

2339
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:28,159
creative team with their image, but it

2340
01:28:28,159 --> 01:28:30,080
doesn't need to be provided by a certain

2341
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:31,040
date to run.

2342
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:32,400
>> We're not creating these images,

2343
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:32,800
correct?

2344
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:34,000
>> No, we're not. I mean, we have a

2345
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:35,760
creative department, but the advertiser

2346
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:37,920
who's buying the sales contract can

2347
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:40,159
either provide us with their image or

2348
01:28:40,159 --> 01:28:40,719
pay us

2349
01:28:40,719 --> 01:28:42,320
>> instruct us to what they would like to

2350
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:43,360
put up there. Correct.

2351
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:45,440
>> So, that's all done in advance. There

2352
01:28:45,440 --> 01:28:46,960
must be some sort of schedule and

2353
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:48,560
deadlines, I'm assuming.

2354
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:50,719
>> I would have to assume so. So that's you

2355
01:28:50,719 --> 01:28:54,080
know it's not as we're hearing these

2356
01:28:54,080 --> 01:28:56,080
very legitimate concerns with respect to

2357
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:58,159
privacy and data collection. I mean

2358
01:28:58,159 --> 01:29:00,560
there is I'm assuming I guess you're not

2359
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:02,800
able to provide the specifics some type

2360
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,199
of process and procedure

2361
01:29:05,199 --> 01:29:06,960
at your company just like at every

2362
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:08,880
company we have you know deadlines for

2363
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:12,320
things to be submitted. For example our

2364
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:14,239
report for the Redbank zoning board has

2365
01:29:14,239 --> 01:29:15,920
to be turned in. We can't just walk into

2366
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:17,679
the meeting with it. has to be turned in

2367
01:29:17,679 --> 01:29:19,440
48 hours in advance or something like

2368
01:29:19,440 --> 01:29:20,960
that. It's all done in advance.

2369
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:23,360
>> Even in an emergency situation, you have

2370
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:25,600
to call. You have to say, "We need to

2371
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:28,880
run this, but it needs to stay. It need

2372
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:30,719
I'm either going to send it to you or

2373
01:29:30,719 --> 01:29:33,280
you're going to create it for me. It's

2374
01:29:33,280 --> 01:29:36,159
not instantaneous.

2375
01:29:36,159 --> 01:29:39,199
>> The potential is there to be next day.

2376
01:29:39,199 --> 01:29:40,560
You could certainly do that. If you have

2377
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:42,639
a contract for six months, you could

2378
01:29:42,639 --> 01:29:44,880
feed in an image and change the image

2379
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:47,120
for Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. You

2380
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:48,800
could do different images. Eventually,

2381
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:50,239
you'll be able to do that if you don't

2382
01:29:50,239 --> 01:29:52,000
do it now where you could just change

2383
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:54,800
the images in 24 hours. I could have a

2384
01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:56,960
new ad in 24. I'm not objecting to it.

2385
01:29:56,960 --> 01:29:58,159
makes sense, but

2386
01:29:58,159 --> 01:30:01,840
>> and I that is my understanding. I believe

2387
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:04,000
so. I'm not 100% sure, but that is my

2388
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:04,639
understanding. In

2389
01:30:04,639 --> 01:30:05,760
>> the future, it could be done very

2390
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:07,760
quickly, but that's still it's just the

2391
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:11,030
way it is.

2392
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:13,679
Um I have a question. Uh the slightly

2393
01:30:13,679 --> 01:30:18,159
unrelated but similar topic. Um the town

2394
01:30:18,159 --> 01:30:21,360
the burough use time you mentioned there

2395
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:22,719
are certain guidelines around like must

2396
01:30:22,719 --> 01:30:24,719
be politically neutral etc. Are there

2397
01:30:24,719 --> 01:30:27,199
guidelines that dictate the other

2398
01:30:27,199 --> 01:30:31,120
advertiser types of ads like protected

2399
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:35,280
categories unprotected cate like what governs other types of ads that

2400
01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:37,760
might show up on this billboard?

2401
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:39,920
So the first amendment as well as we

2402
01:30:39,920 --> 01:30:41,679
have our legal department reviewed.

2403
01:30:41,679 --> 01:30:43,199
There's nothing that's going to be put

2404
01:30:43,199 --> 01:30:46,320
out there that is illegal. Um there's no

2405
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:49,840
nude, you know, um images, lewd images,

2406
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:52,000
uh violence, you know, we're we're a

2407
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:55,360
publicly traded company. Um you know,

2408
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:58,400
>> for the you know, 80 87.5% of time

2409
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:00,080
political ads could be fair game if

2410
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:03,520
they're paid for by, you know, vest an

2411
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:04,480
interest, etc.

2412
01:31:04,480 --> 01:31:06,080
>> Yes. My understanding is yes.

2413
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:08,880
>> And yeah. Okay. It it is across the

2414
01:31:08,880 --> 01:31:10,239
street from a Planned Parenthood I would

2415
01:31:10,239 --> 01:31:11,679
like to just note as well. So I don't

2416
01:31:11,679 --> 01:31:14,000
know if we want to maybe be aware of

2417
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:18,709
that as as well.

2418
01:31:18,719 --> 01:31:19,600
» Okay.

2419
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:21,360
>> Any other questions?

2420
01:31:21,360 --> 01:31:23,440
>> Yeah. Um I wanted to revisit the

2421
01:31:23,440 --> 01:31:25,679
protocol B a bit. That was the one where

2422
01:31:25,679 --> 01:31:28,400
the burrow gets the 12.5%

2423
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:30,800
time as it's used. And so I'm trying to

2424
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:33,360
understand the um value of that benefit.

2425
01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:34,639
And and one of the ways I could

2426
01:31:34,639 --> 01:31:37,920
understand it is if um the bureau were

2427
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:40,480
already spending x amount of dollars on

2428
01:31:40,480 --> 01:31:43,199
outfront ads, it could then use this

2429
01:31:43,199 --> 01:31:46,480
time instead to save um some of its

2430
01:31:46,480 --> 01:31:51,280
budget. And so are you aware is of what the bureau does spend on

2431
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:52,639
outfront ads today?

2432
01:31:52,639 --> 01:31:54,880
>> I I'm not in sales. I can't answer that

2433
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:56,800
question. I'm sorry. But to your point,

2434
01:31:56,800 --> 01:31:58,639
yes, you could absolutely if you are

2435
01:31:58,639 --> 01:32:00,239
spending money now, you could

2436
01:32:00,239 --> 01:32:02,719
potentially stop and use your dedicated

2437
01:32:02,719 --> 01:32:03,120
time,

2438
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:04,719
>> right? I'm trying to quantify how much

2439
01:32:04,719 --> 01:32:06,719
and and so I I don't recall seeing any

2440
01:32:06,719 --> 01:32:08,639
burrow advertisements on on static

2441
01:32:08,639 --> 01:32:10,159
billboards, so I'm just going to assume

2442
01:32:10,159 --> 01:32:12,639
it's zero, but um if you would if you

2443
01:32:12,639 --> 01:32:14,159
know otherwise, please let us know.

2444
01:32:14,159 --> 01:32:15,840
>> Well, but but also, Mr. Goodday, we're

2445
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:17,840
not saying that it's necessarily a

2446
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:19,920
financial benefit to the

2447
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:21,679
>> No, but that's one way to understand it.

2448
01:32:21,679 --> 01:32:23,840
it is, but we think that it is a

2449
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:26,480
public benefit to the burough residents

2450
01:32:26,480 --> 01:32:28,560
that their municipality is able to

2451
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:30,400
communicate with them with important

2452
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:33,520
information in a medium that will be

2453
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:34,719
seen by a lot of people,

2454
01:32:34,719 --> 01:32:36,159
>> which they can do today if they pay

2455
01:32:36,159 --> 01:32:37,440
market rates for it.

2456
01:32:37,440 --> 01:32:39,600
>> Well, they can't do it today on the same

2457
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:40,960
way because there is no digital

2458
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:44,719
billboard in Redbank and the billboards

2459
01:32:44,719 --> 01:32:47,520
are changed once a month as it relates

2460
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:51,280
to um a static billboard. So, for

2461
01:32:51,280 --> 01:32:53,760
example, if the senior center decided

2462
01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:55,040
they were going to have a Valentine's

2463
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:57,440
Day party and they wanted everybody to

2464
01:32:57,440 --> 01:32:59,040
know,

2465
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:00,639
the the bureau could call up and say,

2466
01:33:00,639 --> 01:33:02,320
"Next week, please run this." You can't

2467
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:04,400
do that with a static billboard. So, the

2468
01:33:04,400 --> 01:33:07,360
benefit of a digital billboard is that

2469
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:10,080
you have the ability to provide more

2470
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:12,800
timely burrow type announcements,

2471
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:15,360
whether emergency or non-emergency. It's

2472
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:18,000
not about a financial benefit as much as

2473
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:20,000
it is about a convenience benefit for

2474
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:22,480
the burrow to reach an audience on much

2475
01:33:22,480 --> 01:33:24,080
more timely things than a static

2476
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:25,920
billboard would be able to.

2477
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:28,400
>> Okay. And if I were to ask a different

2478
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:30,480
way to try to understand objectively

2479
01:33:30,480 --> 01:33:34,239
what the value of that is um the what

2480
01:33:34,239 --> 01:33:36,639
would be the market rate for that 12.5%

2481
01:33:36,639 --> 01:33:39,520
or for one of those 8-second slots?

2482
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:40,719
>> I'm not aware.

2483
01:33:40,719 --> 01:33:42,159
>> Okay.

2484
01:33:42,159 --> 01:33:46,880
It seems to me it's a that the u the 12

2485
01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:49,199
and a half% is is going to be of

2486
01:33:49,199 --> 01:33:51,360
tremendous value to the bureau and for

2487
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:53,600
advertising events especially and for

2488
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:55,199
reaching people which is very difficult

2489
01:33:55,199 --> 01:34:00,080
today in this enormously uh environment

2490
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:01,840
and we needed to be doing stuff in

2491
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:05,920
Spanish to reach people here. Um, and I

2492
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:07,920
think it's of tremendous value to the

2493
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:09,520
town to have something like this to do

2494
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:11,280
like I saw the Dville ads and what

2495
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:13,199
they're trying to do and trying to get

2496
01:34:13,199 --> 01:34:15,199
people to shop Red Bank and spend in Red

2497
01:34:15,199 --> 01:34:16,159
Bank.

2498
01:34:16,159 --> 01:34:18,800
>> And just to echo that, Mr. Havens, on on

2499
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:22,639
the former site at 187, the burrow

2500
01:34:22,639 --> 01:34:26,880
actually set up a giant display. I I

2501
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:29,679
don't know that it was um digital but it

2502
01:34:29,679 --> 01:34:32,239
was a lighted display to give messages

2503
01:34:32,239 --> 01:34:35,040
to people at that location. So there is

2504
01:34:35,040 --> 01:34:37,520
a need to disseminate this information.

2505
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:39,360
A lot of municipalities have their own

2506
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:41,520
digital signs with which they do this.

2507
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:42,960
You drive into Belmar, you have welcome

2508
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:44,800
to Belmar and all the announcements are

2509
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:47,440
there. So there is definitely a need in

2510
01:34:47,440 --> 01:34:50,239
addition to the internet obviously uh to

2511
01:34:50,239 --> 01:34:52,639
do this. So again this is a public

2512
01:34:52,639 --> 01:34:54,960
benefit not a financial benefit

2513
01:34:54,960 --> 01:34:58,310
necessarily.

2514
01:34:58,320 --> 01:34:59,840
Okay,

2515
01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:04,080
everybody's okay. We'll kind of move on.

2516
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:05,679
>> I did have another question actually on

2517
01:35:05,679 --> 01:35:07,679
the um is this would be the right time

2518
01:35:07,679 --> 01:35:09,520
to talk about the removals in the

2519
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:10,400
settlement. Yeah.

2520
01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:10,800
>> Yes.

2521
01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:12,880
>> Okay. And so we had asked before about

2522
01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:16,639
which one of those uh had is I'm sorry I

2523
01:35:16,639 --> 01:35:18,480
had asked a question before about which

2524
01:35:18,480 --> 01:35:21,120
of those faces already has a permit to

2525
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:22,639
be removed. Right. And

2526
01:35:22,639 --> 01:35:23,920
>> no no that wasn't the question. I'm

2527
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:25,760
sorry. Not to be. Yes. It was a you

2528
01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:27,520
asked to be turned to digital and the

2529
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:29,760
answer was two and I I want to go you

2530
01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:31,520
rais a a good point for a discussion

2531
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:33,520
that I had had with Kevin so thank you

2532
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:34,560
for raising that

2533
01:35:34,560 --> 01:35:36,719
>> so just so the I I promised I would talk

2534
01:35:36,719 --> 01:35:38,880
about this so I'm going to do it now um

2535
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:41,120
the way that the settlement agreement is

2536
01:35:41,120 --> 01:35:43,760
written there is a trigger date which is

2537
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:47,760
what um governs all of the various

2538
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:50,800
actions that are required

2539
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:55,199
and I want to read it exactly because I

2540
01:35:55,199 --> 01:35:59,600
Don't want to misstate anything. So the

2541
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:01,840
trigger date for which all action is

2542
01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:04,320
required is a multitude of different

2543
01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:08,320
things. One, it would be an approval by

2544
01:36:08,320 --> 01:36:10,480
this board, a memorialization and any

2545
01:36:10,480 --> 01:36:14,800
appeal period. Two, confirmation that

2546
01:36:14,800 --> 01:36:17,040
the uh litigation

2547
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:20,560
was that any any appeal or litigation is

2548
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:22,960
fully concluded and it's gone. And then

2549
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:25,360
three, most importantly, the issuance of

2550
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:28,480
construction permits for the billboard.

2551
01:36:28,480 --> 01:36:31,199
And one of the questions Kevin astutely

2552
01:36:31,199 --> 01:36:34,719
asked me was, well, if you have 90 days

2553
01:36:34,719 --> 01:36:36,480
from then to remove all of the

2554
01:36:36,480 --> 01:36:38,719
billboards, how do we know that you're

2555
01:36:38,719 --> 01:36:41,280
going to actually remove them if you

2556
01:36:41,280 --> 01:36:43,280
have the opportunity to put your digital

2557
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:46,880
billboard up digital billboard up first?

2558
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:48,480
And that's when Kevin and I discussed

2559
01:36:48,480 --> 01:36:50,239
that the board is able to impose

2560
01:36:50,239 --> 01:36:51,679
conditions. and I want to just explain

2561
01:36:51,679 --> 01:36:53,840
the process with the board and then I'll

2562
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:55,600
share what condition we'd be willing to

2563
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:59,119
agree to. So, as I understand it,

2564
01:36:59,119 --> 01:37:02,239
outfront doesn't order the materials

2565
01:37:02,239 --> 01:37:03,840
for any billboard that they're

2566
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:05,920
constructing until the construction

2567
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:07,119
permits have been issued.

2568
01:37:07,119 --> 01:37:08,480
>> Correct. That is correct.

2569
01:37:08,480 --> 01:37:10,719
>> And the types of materials for a

2570
01:37:10,719 --> 01:37:12,639
billboard like this would typically take

2571
01:37:12,639 --> 01:37:15,360
how long to get there? anywhere from 8

2572
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:17,360
to 12 weeks, sometimes a little longer

2573
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:19,440
depending on if it's a unique size or

2574
01:37:19,440 --> 01:37:21,280
configuration, but typically two to

2575
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:22,000
three months.

2576
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:24,880
>> So, if outfront were willing to agree

2577
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:26,560
that they would not be permitted to

2578
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:28,800
commence construction on the billboard

2579
01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:31,280
structure until it was confirmed that

2580
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:34,480
all nine faces have been removed as

2581
01:37:34,480 --> 01:37:37,760
required by the um settlement, that

2582
01:37:37,760 --> 01:37:39,760
would be a condition we would accept.

2583
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:42,239
>> Yes, 100%. So that isn't something that

2584
01:37:42,239 --> 01:37:43,840
was negotiated as part of the

2585
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:46,239
settlement, but in an effort to assure

2586
01:37:46,239 --> 01:37:48,560
the board that we can't put up our new

2587
01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:52,159
billboard should you vote in favor until

2588
01:37:52,159 --> 01:37:55,360
all those nine faces are gone, we're

2589
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:56,880
willing to accept that as a condition.

2590
01:37:56,880 --> 01:37:59,040
And I think that gives the board a level

2591
01:37:59,040 --> 01:38:01,280
the municipality a level of security

2592
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:04,000
that would be a lot more than posting of

2593
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:05,600
bonds or the ability to go to court to

2594
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:06,880
enforce a settlement agreement.

2595
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:08,560
>> Is it just the faces or the faces and

2596
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:09,119
the structure?

2597
01:38:09,119 --> 01:38:10,480
>> Faces and the structure.

2598
01:38:10,480 --> 01:38:11,920
I'm I'm calling it eight faces because

2599
01:38:11,920 --> 01:38:13,600
there are not eight structures,

2600
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:15,280
>> right? Eight faces, four structures.

2601
01:38:15,280 --> 01:38:17,600
>> Eight faces and however many structures

2602
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:20,080
they sit on. And then it's nine when you

2603
01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:21,840
include 187.

2604
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:24,639
>> And just for the record, we um said

2605
01:38:24,639 --> 01:38:27,760
permanent 100% removal and abandonment

2606
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:29,920
of the structures, the the framework, I

2607
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:31,199
mean everything, the kitten

2608
01:38:31,199 --> 01:38:32,560
>> and JD dot permit as well.

2609
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:33,040
>> Yes.

2610
01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:34,639
>> Right. So So again, that's something

2611
01:38:34,639 --> 01:38:36,480
that could be inspected by No, sorry,

2612
01:38:36,480 --> 01:38:38,000
Jackie. That's something that can be

2613
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:40,400
inspected by your burough engineer and

2614
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:42,639
then that could be the trigger for the

2615
01:38:42,639 --> 01:38:44,159
construction department allowing us to

2616
01:38:44,159 --> 01:38:45,199
commence construction.

2617
01:38:45,199 --> 01:38:46,560
>> So essentially what you're going to do

2618
01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:48,560
is just get started on all the work that

2619
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:49,440
you have to do.

2620
01:38:49,440 --> 01:38:49,920
>> Correct.

2621
01:38:49,920 --> 01:38:51,040
>> Just get going on all

2622
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:54,080
>> the moment we get the sooner the better.

2623
01:38:54,080 --> 01:38:55,679
>> Should we get there? The moment we get

2624
01:38:55,679 --> 01:38:57,280
the construction permit for the new

2625
01:38:57,280 --> 01:39:00,080
billboard is when we start dismantling

2626
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:02,000
all of the other ones and hopefully

2627
01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:04,480
we're done by the time we get the

2628
01:39:04,480 --> 01:39:06,400
materials for the new one. One thing

2629
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:08,800
though, a caveat that I had uh talked to

2630
01:39:08,800 --> 01:39:10,480
Kevin about, as you know, there are

2631
01:39:10,480 --> 01:39:12,800
other things related to this as you're

2632
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:14,719
going to hear when when Dan gets up

2633
01:39:14,719 --> 01:39:17,119
here, is we're reconstructing the

2634
01:39:17,119 --> 01:39:19,199
island. We're moving the sign that's

2635
01:39:19,199 --> 01:39:21,280
existing there today back from the right

2636
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:25,360
ofway. Uh so what we'd like to do is not

2637
01:39:25,360 --> 01:39:27,280
have it tied to the site work related to

2638
01:39:27,280 --> 01:39:29,119
the relocation of the other sign and

2639
01:39:29,119 --> 01:39:31,440
prep. It's just the actual billboard

2640
01:39:31,440 --> 01:39:33,600
construction cannot commence. So, that

2641
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:35,119
was what we were offering. And I think

2642
01:39:35,119 --> 01:39:37,520
that gives us the opportunity that once

2643
01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:40,159
the materials come in and once uh

2644
01:39:40,159 --> 01:39:41,920
Jackie's confirmed that all the nine

2645
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:44,560
other billboards have been uh adequately

2646
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:46,239
removed and abandoned, that would give

2647
01:39:46,239 --> 01:39:47,840
us the opportunity to have the site

2648
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:49,199
ready to get moving.

2649
01:39:49,199 --> 01:39:51,040
>> So, essentially, it won't be lit up

2650
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:53,760
until the other ones are gone.

2651
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:55,360
>> Won't even be lit up until the other

2652
01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:57,840
ones are gone because we still have to

2653
01:39:57,840 --> 01:39:58,400
build it.

2654
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:00,000
>> But you got to build it. And I was

2655
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:01,760
curious about that. You set back further

2656
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:03,440
than I expected to be. I thought it'd be

2657
01:40:03,440 --> 01:40:05,440
closer to Newman. Um

2658
01:40:05,440 --> 01:40:07,840
>> no. So it it can I

2659
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:11,199
>> Dan testified if you don't mind?

2660
01:40:11,199 --> 01:40:15,440
>> So um the the nine faces and so the ones

2661
01:40:15,440 --> 01:40:18,320
at Oakland that was the other one

2662
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:20,560
besides Riverside that is eligible for

2663
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:24,320
conversion. I I also understand that one is in the train station

2664
01:40:24,320 --> 01:40:27,199
redevelopment area. And so regardless of

2665
01:40:27,199 --> 01:40:28,719
the settlement, it's my understanding

2666
01:40:28,719 --> 01:40:30,639
that one is compelled to be removed. Is

2667
01:40:30,639 --> 01:40:31,600
that right?

2668
01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:33,920
>> It I don't I don't have the answer to

2669
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:35,199
that, but I know that that was a

2670
01:40:35,199 --> 01:40:36,880
discussion, which is why we added an

2671
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:37,679
additional one.

2672
01:40:37,679 --> 01:40:39,840
>> Correct. So I if you if I could jump in

2673
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:42,320
here. So yes, uh to your point, it is uh

2674
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:43,840
being developed and those will have to

2675
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:45,840
come down. So the original hearing, I

2676
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:47,199
believe there were six billboards

2677
01:40:47,199 --> 01:40:49,840
offered up for removal. Uh because of

2678
01:40:49,840 --> 01:40:51,360
what you just mentioned, those are

2679
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:53,040
coming down regardless of what happens

2680
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:53,600
here tonight.

2681
01:40:53,600 --> 01:40:54,159
>> Those two.

2682
01:40:54,159 --> 01:40:56,639
He added another two bringing

2683
01:40:56,639 --> 01:40:58,960
it from six to eight as well as

2684
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:01,520
Riverside which makes it nine total.

2685
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:04,000
>> Okay. And could you tell us about the

2686
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:05,840
you told us the lease terms of the

2687
01:41:05,840 --> 01:41:08,400
proposed billboard is 15 years with five

2688
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:09,679
years. What was the

2689
01:41:09,679 --> 01:41:11,760
>> Yeah, a five-year out outfront option.

2690
01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:14,719
>> Outfront option. Okay. And of for the

2691
01:41:14,719 --> 01:41:16,320
phases that would be coming down, I'm

2692
01:41:16,320 --> 01:41:18,000
most interested in I guess 187

2693
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:20,480
Riverside, 31 Shrewsbury app, and 300

2694
01:41:20,480 --> 01:41:23,679
Maple. what is the remaining lease terms

2695
01:41:23,679 --> 01:41:25,920
on those so that I can compare you know

2696
01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:29,440
there's 15 uh years of billboard faces

2697
01:41:29,440 --> 01:41:31,360
coming up as part of this proposal how

2698
01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:33,360
many years of billboard is coming down

2699
01:41:33,360 --> 01:41:36,320
>> I I don't have that um

2700
01:41:36,320 --> 01:41:38,239
>> but but again just because the lease

2701
01:41:38,239 --> 01:41:40,719
expires doesn't mean that the landlord

2702
01:41:40,719 --> 01:41:42,560
wouldn't renew it

2703
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:44,239
>> because it's lucrative so I don't think

2704
01:41:44,239 --> 01:41:46,320
that even if we had that information I

2705
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:47,679
don't know that that's a fair metric

2706
01:41:47,679 --> 01:41:50,880
because again they could be renewed

2707
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:52,800
which they have been. The billboard at

2708
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:56,080
187 has been continuously renewed

2709
01:41:56,080 --> 01:41:56,800
for

2710
01:41:56,800 --> 01:41:59,840
>> 50s or 60s and each lease term is not

2711
01:41:59,840 --> 01:42:02,639
that long. But regardless,

2712
01:42:02,639 --> 01:42:04,159
we were asked in the settlement to

2713
01:42:04,159 --> 01:42:06,080
provide some very specific information

2714
01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:07,679
which I believe that we did and we'll

2715
01:42:07,679 --> 01:42:09,440
get through all of it. But the lease

2716
01:42:09,440 --> 01:42:11,199
terms of the various billboards that

2717
01:42:11,199 --> 01:42:12,719
we're removing is not information that

2718
01:42:12,719 --> 01:42:14,880
we have available nor that we can

2719
01:42:14,880 --> 01:42:15,760
present.

2720
01:42:15,760 --> 01:42:17,520
>> But but you do know you're you're

2721
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:19,679
managing 3,500 billboards in the state

2722
01:42:19,679 --> 01:42:21,679
of New Jersey. No. in the country. No.

2723
01:42:21,679 --> 01:42:22,480
State of New Jersey.

2724
01:42:22,480 --> 01:42:23,600
>> State of New Jersey. My

2725
01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:25,920
>> How many How often are those

2726
01:42:25,920 --> 01:42:28,000
discontinued?

2727
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:29,440
>> Not that often.

2728
01:42:29,440 --> 01:42:31,199
>> That's what I thought.

2729
01:42:31,199 --> 01:42:32,560
>> No, but I mean it's pretty well

2730
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:33,920
documented that at least the current

2731
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:35,840
property owner of 187 Riverside is

2732
01:42:35,840 --> 01:42:37,760
motivated to not have a billboard there.

2733
01:42:37,760 --> 01:42:39,600
So, we know in some cases

2734
01:42:39,600 --> 01:42:41,360
>> the current owner that purchased it

2735
01:42:41,360 --> 01:42:44,320
after our denial had that feeling

2736
01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:45,199
because

2737
01:42:45,199 --> 01:42:46,560
>> that was part of the objection. So

2738
01:42:46,560 --> 01:42:50,080
again, how one property owner

2739
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:53,840
did it, again, the testimony is is that

2740
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:55,600
typically it's lucrative for the land

2741
01:42:55,600 --> 01:42:59,040
owners. It's a passive use that uh they

2742
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:00,639
derive income from. There'd be no reason

2743
01:43:00,639 --> 01:43:03,040
why they wouldn't allow it to continue,

2744
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:06,080
>> but they might. And and there's some

2745
01:43:06,080 --> 01:43:07,600
information asymmetry here because, you

2746
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:09,360
know, these lease terms, but but we

2747
01:43:09,360 --> 01:43:10,480
don't. And so I'm kind of at a

2748
01:43:10,480 --> 01:43:13,600
disadvantage when weighing 15 new years

2749
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:15,920
of billboard faces versus these other

2750
01:43:15,920 --> 01:43:19,600
ones that could come down in a year. And

2751
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:19,920
I

2752
01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:21,600
>> we don't anticipate that any of those

2753
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:23,119
billboards would be coming down in a

2754
01:43:23,119 --> 01:43:25,040
year except for perhaps the one on the

2755
01:43:25,040 --> 01:43:26,480
transit

2756
01:43:26,480 --> 01:43:31,360
>> 187. Um the lease uh

2757
01:43:31,360 --> 01:43:33,119
>> we had an additional two or three years

2758
01:43:33,119 --> 01:43:36,159
left on that lease. So that lease could

2759
01:43:36,159 --> 01:43:39,520
continue past the wish that that could

2760
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:40,880
continue even though the properties

2761
01:43:40,880 --> 01:43:46,310
changed hands. Yeah. Thank you.

2762
01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:49,280
» Are any of the um did did you apply for

2763
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:52,480
a permit to upgrade with like um to an

2764
01:43:52,480 --> 01:43:55,360
electronic billboard? Uh how many out of

2765
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:56,639
the eight that you're taking down did

2766
01:43:56,639 --> 01:44:00,080
you apply for a permit to upgrade those?

2767
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:02,960
>> Me personally, none of those. Um I but

2768
01:44:02,960 --> 01:44:04,480
they it looks like it says that they are

2769
01:44:04,480 --> 01:44:06,320
eligible for an upgrade for those two

2770
01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:07,280
based on the exhibit.

2771
01:44:07,280 --> 01:44:08,880
>> So two out of the eight.

2772
01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:10,719
>> Correct. Two faces out of the two

2773
01:44:10,719 --> 01:44:13,280
locations out of the four which is a two

2774
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:14,400
of

2775
01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:15,760
>> three faces.

2776
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:18,000
>> So those you got the permits to to

2777
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:19,119
upgrade those and then you would have

2778
01:44:19,119 --> 01:44:21,119
had to come before the zoning board.

2779
01:44:21,119 --> 01:44:23,280
>> Yes, 100%. And some of those permits

2780
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:25,360
could have been approve uh applied for

2781
01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:26,960
to potentially block out other

2782
01:44:26,960 --> 01:44:29,280
competitors from putting up a digital.

2783
01:44:29,280 --> 01:44:31,440
Just because Outfront applies for a

2784
01:44:31,440 --> 01:44:33,760
digital permit doesn't necessarily mean

2785
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:36,320
that we're looking to convert it because

2786
01:44:36,320 --> 01:44:40,159
of the zoning laws from the DOT and the

2787
01:44:40,159 --> 01:44:42,560
spacing there. It's a competitive way to

2788
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:44,320
stop other digital billboards from being

2789
01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:44,880
built.

2790
01:44:44,880 --> 01:44:47,360
>> And you apply for that though with the

2791
01:44:47,360 --> 01:44:48,639
um through the DOT.

2792
01:44:48,639 --> 01:44:49,920
>> Yes, correct. All

2793
01:44:49,920 --> 01:44:52,880
>> did you apply for permits for all for

2794
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:54,320
all four structures that you're giving

2795
01:44:54,320 --> 01:44:56,639
up here or just two of the four? Uh, I

2796
01:44:56,639 --> 01:44:58,320
believe just two of the four.

2797
01:44:58,320 --> 01:45:01,040
>> Were any of the um any applications that

2798
01:45:01,040 --> 01:45:03,199
you put in for a permit denied in

2799
01:45:03,199 --> 01:45:06,159
Redbank to upgrade by the DOT?

2800
01:45:06,159 --> 01:45:07,679
>> No,

2801
01:45:07,679 --> 01:45:08,800
not to my knowledge.

2802
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:11,440
>> And with what frequency it does the DOT

2803
01:45:11,440 --> 01:45:14,320
deny applications to upgrade billboards

2804
01:45:14,320 --> 01:45:15,280
throughout the state?

2805
01:45:15,280 --> 01:45:18,080
>> The only reason for denial would be that

2806
01:45:18,080 --> 01:45:19,920
it doesn't fit their requirements for

2807
01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:24,560
zoning, spacing, and ramp spacing. uh

2808
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:26,800
they're very black and white with what

2809
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:28,159
they're looking for. There's no

2810
01:45:28,159 --> 01:45:30,000
inbetweens. It's either you fit their

2811
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:31,520
requirements or you don't. And that's

2812
01:45:31,520 --> 01:45:33,440
the only reason you would get a denial.

2813
01:45:33,440 --> 01:45:35,840
>> So, is it 90% approval rate by the

2814
01:45:35,840 --> 01:45:37,840
state?

2815
01:45:37,840 --> 01:45:39,760
>> I I I don't have that answer for you,

2816
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:41,360
but it's

2817
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:43,840
>> Well, they routinely approve it as long

2818
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:45,520
as it meets the terms of the law.

2819
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:50,950
>> Exactly. That is correct.

2820
01:45:50,960 --> 01:45:53,280
You know, for me it and I guess you have

2821
01:45:53,280 --> 01:45:55,119
some more testimony coming forward, but

2822
01:45:55,119 --> 01:45:56,639
>> we do have quite a few more witnesses

2823
01:45:56,639 --> 01:45:57,040
coming

2824
01:45:57,040 --> 01:45:58,560
>> that I I won't give a little narrative.

2825
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:01,199
I'll let

2826
01:46:01,199 --> 01:46:02,880
>> Right. I I I certainly want wouldn't

2827
01:46:02,880 --> 01:46:04,320
want it to appear that you prejudged it.

2828
01:46:04,320 --> 01:46:05,840
So, I would ask you to wait until we

2829
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:08,080
finish with all of our witnesses where

2830
01:46:08,080 --> 01:46:10,239
you offer us your opinion.

2831
01:46:10,239 --> 01:46:12,800
>> Okay. Any more questions for this

2832
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:16,639
witness from the board?

2833
01:46:16,639 --> 01:46:19,280
Any questions from the public for this

2834
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:22,239
witness?

2835
01:46:22,239 --> 01:46:25,280
Come on up.

2836
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:26,480
>> Hello. Good evening. If you could just

2837
01:46:26,480 --> 01:46:28,639
state your name and address. Need to get

2838
01:46:28,639 --> 01:46:31,840
a micro. Grab that mic out of it. There

2839
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:39,109
you go.

2840
01:46:39,119 --> 01:46:40,159
Name and address.

2841
01:46:40,159 --> 01:46:42,800
>> Suzani 25 C Street. Do you swear that

2842
01:46:42,800 --> 01:46:44,080
the information and testimony you're

2843
01:46:44,080 --> 01:46:45,280
about to provide to the extent you

2844
01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:46,719
provide any will be the truth to best

2845
01:46:46,719 --> 01:46:48,000
your knowledge to help you God?

2846
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:48,400
>> Yes.

2847
01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:48,880
>> Thank you.

2848
01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:50,159
>> Could I just get the spelling of your

2849
01:46:50,159 --> 01:46:50,800
last name?

2850
01:46:50,800 --> 01:46:54,400
>> Vistor. I S C O M I.

2851
01:46:54,400 --> 01:46:56,320
>> And your address again?

2852
01:46:56,320 --> 01:47:02,629
>> 25 Cedar. CE D A R Street.

2853
01:47:02,639 --> 01:47:04,400
I am not speaking on behalf of the

2854
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:06,400
school board or anything. I'm speaking

2855
01:47:06,400 --> 01:47:08,719
for myself. Um I have a question. You

2856
01:47:08,719 --> 01:47:10,159
mentioned that the town can use this

2857
01:47:10,159 --> 01:47:12,800
forformational purposes. Uh would that

2858
01:47:12,800 --> 01:47:15,199
include or would there be a separate ask

2859
01:47:15,199 --> 01:47:17,760
for like the library and the schools to

2860
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:24,790
have uh small access forformational

2861
01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:26,560
» certainly the town could give some of

2862
01:47:26,560 --> 01:47:27,679
their time. So

2863
01:47:27,679 --> 01:47:29,920
>> correct I mean if it's part of red bank

2864
01:47:29,920 --> 01:47:32,239
>> the library or the board of ed.

2865
01:47:32,239 --> 01:47:34,080
>> So not exclusively to just the town's

2866
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:36,159
activity. It could be if the board of ed

2867
01:47:36,159 --> 01:47:37,199
acts for time or

2868
01:47:37,199 --> 01:47:38,400
>> well they wouldn't the board of ed

2869
01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:40,639
wouldn't ask us for the time they would

2870
01:47:40,639 --> 01:47:42,800
go to the bureau gets 12 and a half% how

2871
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:44,320
the burrow wants to use that 12 and a

2872
01:47:44,320 --> 01:47:46,639
half% is going to be up to the burrow

2873
01:47:46,639 --> 01:47:51,360
>> and we kind of do that now because the middle school has a nice digital

2874
01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:53,760
board and the library does too. So thank

2875
01:47:53,760 --> 01:47:54,719
you.

2876
01:47:54,719 --> 01:47:57,920
>> Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else from

2877
01:47:57,920 --> 01:47:59,679
the public?

2878
01:47:59,679 --> 01:48:02,960
Come on up.

2879
01:48:02,960 --> 01:48:07,990
Name and address question.

2880
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:10,639
» Uh, Victor Roller, 187 Riverside Avenue,

2881
01:48:10,639 --> 01:48:11,600
Red Bank, New Jersey.

2882
01:48:11,600 --> 01:48:13,199
>> Good evening and welcome. Do you swear

2883
01:48:13,199 --> 01:48:14,480
that the information and testimony

2884
01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:15,840
you're about to provide to the extent

2885
01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:17,600
you provide any will be the truth to the

2886
01:48:17,600 --> 01:48:19,679
best of your knowledge to help you God?

2887
01:48:19,679 --> 01:48:20,159
>> Yes.

2888
01:48:20,159 --> 01:48:20,960
>> Thank you.

2889
01:48:20,960 --> 01:48:23,760
>> Uh, question. You talked about the

2890
01:48:23,760 --> 01:48:26,320
public and financial benefit of giving

2891
01:48:26,320 --> 01:48:30,960
the time to Red Bank. Um, I know what

2892
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:35,119
the billboard company pays us uh monthly

2893
01:48:35,119 --> 01:48:37,360
and they pay us a lot of money. I think

2894
01:48:37,360 --> 01:48:41,280
it's a tremendous benefit to the town of

2895
01:48:41,280 --> 01:48:44,239
Redbank financially and publicly. It

2896
01:48:44,239 --> 01:48:46,800
would be so expensive for the town to

2897
01:48:46,800 --> 01:48:49,440
advertise and to have 12 and a half% of

2898
01:48:49,440 --> 01:48:52,000
a billboard with advertising for the

2899
01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:54,159
town I think is a is a unbelievable

2900
01:48:54,159 --> 01:48:57,840
benefit financially and public benefit.

2901
01:48:57,840 --> 01:48:59,520
So

2902
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:01,440
just from my knowledge of what we make

2903
01:49:01,440 --> 01:49:03,119
and how much it would cost the town.

2904
01:49:03,119 --> 01:49:07,669
>> Great. Thank you.

2905
01:49:07,679 --> 01:49:10,239
Anyone else from the public?

2906
01:49:10,239 --> 01:49:15,750
Come on up.

2907
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:16,960
name and address.

2908
01:49:16,960 --> 01:49:19,679
>> Esther Nelson, uh, 39 Parkway Place,

2909
01:49:19,679 --> 01:49:20,800
Redbank, New Jersey.

2910
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:22,320
>> All right. And just speak loudly into

2911
01:49:22,320 --> 01:49:22,880
that mic.

2912
01:49:22,880 --> 01:49:23,600
>> Right into that.

2913
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:24,800
>> Do you swear that the information and

2914
01:49:24,800 --> 01:49:26,159
testimony you're about to provide to the

2915
01:49:26,159 --> 01:49:27,679
extent you providing will be the truth?

2916
01:49:27,679 --> 01:49:29,360
To best your knowledge to help you God.

2917
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:29,679
>> Yes.

2918
01:49:29,679 --> 01:49:30,320
>> Thank you.

2919
01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:32,960
Um, I was just curious if

2920
01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:35,440
Outfront Media has subsidiaries that

2921
01:49:35,440 --> 01:49:38,159
also put up billboards so that like

2922
01:49:38,159 --> 01:49:39,840
there's another one proposed on Newman

2923
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:41,679
Springs Road at the Extend State America

2924
01:49:41,679 --> 01:49:44,400
right now that's going through process.

2925
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:46,960
Um, and if there's relationship with

2926
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:49,199
Outfront Media with other companies that

2927
01:49:49,199 --> 01:49:50,800
are applying, so not under the name

2928
01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:53,119
Outfront Media. So if so, just so I

2929
01:49:53,119 --> 01:49:54,159
understand the question, you want to

2930
01:49:54,159 --> 01:49:55,920
make sure that outfront isn't going to

2931
01:49:55,920 --> 01:49:58,000
use some shell company to put up

2932
01:49:58,000 --> 01:50:00,239
billboards because we're promising that

2933
01:50:00,239 --> 01:50:02,239
we won't.

2934
01:50:02,239 --> 01:50:05,840
>> Uh um I'm asking not not specific just

2935
01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:08,320
are there other companies under under

2936
01:50:08,320 --> 01:50:09,440
outfront that

2937
01:50:09,440 --> 01:50:12,000
>> operate under any other entities?

2938
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:14,560
>> No, we do not.

2939
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:15,920
>> I'm sorry. Can I can I just say one

2940
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:16,960
thing because that's an excellent

2941
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:19,040
question and in the settlement agreement

2942
01:50:19,040 --> 01:50:21,119
it specifically references outfront

2943
01:50:21,119 --> 01:50:23,280
media and its agents representatives

2944
01:50:23,280 --> 01:50:25,600
affiliated and related entities. So

2945
01:50:25,600 --> 01:50:27,760
everything that they're committing to

2946
01:50:27,760 --> 01:50:29,679
it's going to be to their affiliates as

2947
01:50:29,679 --> 01:50:30,239
well.

2948
01:50:30,239 --> 01:50:32,000
>> Okay. Thank you. And and this is not at

2949
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:33,760
all connected to the one that's about a

2950
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:35,840
mile down the road proposed?

2951
01:50:35,840 --> 01:50:37,199
>> Not to my knowledge. No.

2952
01:50:37,199 --> 01:50:39,119
>> And and I'm just curious it's dual

2953
01:50:39,119 --> 01:50:40,400
spacing.

2954
01:50:40,400 --> 01:50:42,080
>> Yes. Two faces back to back.

2955
01:50:42,080 --> 01:50:43,199
>> We didn't get we didn't even get there

2956
01:50:43,199 --> 01:50:43,440
yet.

2957
01:50:43,440 --> 01:50:45,199
>> Oh okay. We we have pictures and

2958
01:50:45,199 --> 01:50:47,040
everything of it. We just don't have not

2959
01:50:47,040 --> 01:50:47,360
yet.

2960
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:48,400
>> All right. Thank you.

2961
01:50:48,400 --> 01:50:51,920
>> Okay. Thank you.

2962
01:50:51,920 --> 01:50:59,189
>> Okay. Last call for public. Come on up.

2963
01:50:59,199 --> 01:51:01,760
Name and address.

2964
01:51:01,760 --> 01:51:04,719
>> Brian Ramirez. Don't place right there.

2965
01:51:04,719 --> 01:51:07,840
>> And Ramirez is R A M

2966
01:51:07,840 --> 01:51:09,199
>> I R E Z.

2967
01:51:09,199 --> 01:51:10,960
>> Okay. And do you swear that the

2968
01:51:10,960 --> 01:51:12,159
information and testimony you're about

2969
01:51:12,159 --> 01:51:13,840
to provide to the extent you provide any

2970
01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:15,280
will be the truth to best your knowledge

2971
01:51:15,280 --> 01:51:16,320
to help you guide?

2972
01:51:16,320 --> 01:51:19,119
>> Yep. Thank you.

2973
01:51:19,119 --> 01:51:21,119
>> Yeah. Yeah. Just what street I just

2974
01:51:21,119 --> 01:51:24,239
>> by please

2975
01:51:24,239 --> 01:51:26,639
>> I'm sorry. Okay. When he turns to talk

2976
01:51:26,639 --> 01:51:28,320
into the mic, he turns away from me so I

2977
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:29,280
can't see him.

2978
01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:30,880
>> Take the mic out of I don't do that

2979
01:51:30,880 --> 01:51:31,360
often.

2980
01:51:31,360 --> 01:51:32,639
>> I got it. Thank you.

2981
01:51:32,639 --> 01:51:34,719
>> Um just want to say two things. So uh

2982
01:51:34,719 --> 01:51:37,520
one I've been in digital marketing for

2983
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:39,760
about I guess 20 years now. uh to date

2984
01:51:39,760 --> 01:51:42,000
myself. Um so I've seen it change for a

2985
01:51:42,000 --> 01:51:44,320
while. Um and everything you guys are

2986
01:51:44,320 --> 01:51:46,000
saying is like I best my knowledge is

2987
01:51:46,000 --> 01:51:48,639
true. Like the tracking is pretty

2988
01:51:48,639 --> 01:51:50,080
elementary compared to what what else is

2989
01:51:50,080 --> 01:51:53,040
out there right now. My concern is just

2990
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:55,360
having seen it change over 20 years, 15

2991
01:51:55,360 --> 01:51:57,760
years is a very long time. And so as you

2992
01:51:57,760 --> 01:52:00,000
guys kind of think about what the New

2993
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:01,520
Jersey standards are right now, the

2994
01:52:01,520 --> 01:52:04,320
stuff they're going to abide by as a

2995
01:52:04,320 --> 01:52:05,679
resident with young kids, all that sort

2996
01:52:05,679 --> 01:52:07,520
of stuff, just knowing how it changes,

2997
01:52:07,520 --> 01:52:10,080
if you can think about head about, you

2998
01:52:10,080 --> 01:52:12,239
know, what the standards are right now

2999
01:52:12,239 --> 01:52:14,880
and should be and how that, you know,

3000
01:52:14,880 --> 01:52:16,800
aligning it with how New Jersey changes

3001
01:52:16,800 --> 01:52:19,520
or whatever else,

3002
01:52:19,520 --> 01:52:21,760
you you don't you don't uh you don't

3003
01:52:21,760 --> 01:52:23,199
control that trajectory necessarily,

3004
01:52:23,199 --> 01:52:24,400
right? But if you think about what's

3005
01:52:24,400 --> 01:52:25,760
best for the town right now and what you

3006
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:27,920
want to be in 15 years, that's how I'd

3007
01:52:27,920 --> 01:52:29,280
encourage you to kind of think about

3008
01:52:29,280 --> 01:52:30,639
putting those parameters in place if

3009
01:52:30,639 --> 01:52:34,320
that's how how it works. Um because and

3010
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:35,599
because the other thing that also uh one

3011
01:52:35,599 --> 01:52:36,960
other thing that wasn't brought up, we

3012
01:52:36,960 --> 01:52:39,520
talked a lot about the out of home

3013
01:52:39,520 --> 01:52:42,320
tracking and everything. Uh but the mo

3014
01:52:42,320 --> 01:52:44,320
the mobile buys you guys actually do not

3015
01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:46,560
talk about as well like you know by

3016
01:52:46,560 --> 01:52:47,840
looking at the pitch deck. I was looking

3017
01:52:47,840 --> 01:52:49,760
at my phone most of this time, right?

3018
01:52:49,760 --> 01:52:52,080
your your sales agents are selling not

3019
01:52:52,080 --> 01:52:54,639
just the the the billboard buys but also

3020
01:52:54,639 --> 01:52:56,480
the mobile personalization that comes

3021
01:52:56,480 --> 01:52:58,320
when you pass it, right? Like trying to

3022
01:52:58,320 --> 01:53:00,400
make sure that if I drive by it that

3023
01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:03,199
then later on I get out of my phone as

3024
01:53:03,199 --> 01:53:05,040
well. And so I'm not sure why that was

3025
01:53:05,040 --> 01:53:06,400
necessarily brought up because I think

3026
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:07,599
it probably addresses a lot of the

3027
01:53:07,599 --> 01:53:08,880
concerns you guys are bringing up about

3028
01:53:08,880 --> 01:53:10,560
the personalization and the tracking,

3029
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:12,880
but best my understanding again based on

3030
01:53:12,880 --> 01:53:15,440
the sale the the public pitch decks that

3031
01:53:15,440 --> 01:53:17,440
the sales teams used to pitch people

3032
01:53:17,440 --> 01:53:19,360
like myself. I'm just wondering why that

3033
01:53:19,360 --> 01:53:20,239
wasn't necessary part of the

3034
01:53:20,239 --> 01:53:21,840
conversation so far.

3035
01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:23,360
>> First of all, the conversation was in

3036
01:53:23,360 --> 01:53:24,719
direct result of questions from the

3037
01:53:24,719 --> 01:53:26,080
board. So, we were answering them.

3038
01:53:26,080 --> 01:53:27,280
Second,

3039
01:53:27,280 --> 01:53:30,080
>> we're not familiar with how that works

3040
01:53:30,080 --> 01:53:31,760
any different than any other company and

3041
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:33,440
whether or not that even occurs today

3042
01:53:33,440 --> 01:53:34,800
with static billboards.

3043
01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:35,119
>> Y

3044
01:53:35,119 --> 01:53:37,199
>> So, again, it it's nothing to do with

3045
01:53:37,199 --> 01:53:40,560
our proposed billboards. So if outfront

3046
01:53:40,560 --> 01:53:43,920
or any other company

3047
01:53:43,920 --> 01:53:48,719
>> uses what you called cell phone buys and sends them that has nothing to do

3048
01:53:48,719 --> 01:53:51,119
with what we're proposing by way of the

3049
01:53:51,119 --> 01:53:52,719
uh use variance for the digital

3050
01:53:52,719 --> 01:53:54,800
billboard. We were asked whether or not

3051
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:57,360
we were doing any tracking.

3052
01:53:57,360 --> 01:54:00,239
>> Right. I mean, I could just just mean

3053
01:54:00,239 --> 01:54:02,239
>> Well, I'm a little bit uncomfortable

3054
01:54:02,239 --> 01:54:04,560
from just a legal perspective to have

3055
01:54:04,560 --> 01:54:06,239
you read from a website without me

3056
01:54:06,239 --> 01:54:07,840
having confirming where it's from, what

3057
01:54:07,840 --> 01:54:08,239
it is.

3058
01:54:08,239 --> 01:54:10,639
>> Uh, we your objections don't for the

3059
01:54:10,639 --> 01:54:11,920
record, but we'll let you read and then

3060
01:54:11,920 --> 01:54:13,119
we'll we'll come back to that.

3061
01:54:13,119 --> 01:54:16,400
>> Uh, out from media media kit. Uh,

3062
01:54:16,400 --> 01:54:18,800
>> what website is that on, Mr. Ramirez?

3063
01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:21,040
>> This is on slideshare.net. So, maybe

3064
01:54:21,040 --> 01:54:22,400
it's a little outdated.

3065
01:54:22,400 --> 01:54:23,679
>> Yeah. I'd prefer if you're going to

3066
01:54:23,679 --> 01:54:25,440
reference anything from outront it be on

3067
01:54:25,440 --> 01:54:26,480
the outfront website.

3068
01:54:26,480 --> 01:54:30,000
>> Yeah. Okay. That's fair. Um,

3069
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:31,679
yeah, it was a few years dated, but I

3070
01:54:31,679 --> 01:54:33,040
guess this the last point I'm going to

3071
01:54:33,040 --> 01:54:35,199
say is that this this pitch deck that I

3072
01:54:35,199 --> 01:54:37,920
saw was I think 20 like the the early

3073
01:54:37,920 --> 01:54:43,119
2020s. Um, and without a home, you know,

3074
01:54:43,119 --> 01:54:44,560
uh, I never actually bought it because

3075
01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:46,320
it was never that they actually never

3076
01:54:46,320 --> 01:54:48,239
had the data that I wanted as a as a

3077
01:54:48,239 --> 01:54:50,159
digital marketer, right? But they are

3078
01:54:50,159 --> 01:54:52,800
competing with the metas and all these

3079
01:54:52,800 --> 01:54:54,639
much more sophisticated platforms out

3080
01:54:54,639 --> 01:54:58,239
there. And so as a public company, you

3081
01:54:58,239 --> 01:54:59,440
guys should be trying to get more and

3082
01:54:59,440 --> 01:55:00,880
more sophisticated to get better and

3083
01:55:00,880 --> 01:55:02,800
better tracking for your advertisers,

3084
01:55:02,800 --> 01:55:03,679
right? Like I don't know why you

3085
01:55:03,679 --> 01:55:05,040
wouldn't be I know you guys aren't doing

3086
01:55:05,040 --> 01:55:05,760
that. Right. Right.

3087
01:55:05,760 --> 01:55:06,960
>> And so that's what I'm more concerned

3088
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:08,960
about as a resident here is just how

3089
01:55:08,960 --> 01:55:10,560
does this evolve? Where does it go from

3090
01:55:10,560 --> 01:55:10,880
there?

3091
01:55:10,880 --> 01:55:12,320
>> Can I just ask Mr. Mir a couple

3092
01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:13,840
questions about what what you had said?

3093
01:55:13,840 --> 01:55:16,480
So when you say for digital marketing,

3094
01:55:16,480 --> 01:55:18,880
so essentially you do targeted marketing

3095
01:55:18,880 --> 01:55:20,719
and

3096
01:55:20,719 --> 01:55:23,679
you you utilize these services to target

3097
01:55:23,679 --> 01:55:24,480
ads

3098
01:55:24,480 --> 01:55:27,119
>> for my uh for my employers. Yes.

3099
01:55:27,119 --> 01:55:29,520
>> Okay. And what kind of business is that?

3100
01:55:29,520 --> 01:55:30,960
>> Uh I'm currently the head of marketing

3101
01:55:30,960 --> 01:55:33,040
for like a health tech company.

3102
01:55:33,040 --> 01:55:35,040
>> Okay. So the health tech company. So

3103
01:55:35,040 --> 01:55:36,560
that was one example that I didn't use,

3104
01:55:36,560 --> 01:55:39,760
but you use the exactly the type of um

3105
01:55:39,760 --> 01:55:41,280
the type of information that we were

3106
01:55:41,280 --> 01:55:42,639
talking about.

3107
01:55:42,639 --> 01:55:44,719
>> Yes. But so that's that's to serve to

3108
01:55:44,719 --> 01:55:45,840
serve the business interest of the

3109
01:55:45,840 --> 01:55:46,800
company I work for.

3110
01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:47,040
>> Yeah.

3111
01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:48,320
>> No, no, no. Understood. Not personally.

3112
01:55:48,320 --> 01:55:50,560
Of course not. So I I guess my question

3113
01:55:50,560 --> 01:55:51,599
is

3114
01:55:51,599 --> 01:55:53,760
>> just like you would be as the technology

3115
01:55:53,760 --> 01:55:55,760
advances 5 years from now, 10 years from

3116
01:55:55,760 --> 01:55:59,520
now, the laws would grow with that as it

3117
01:55:59,520 --> 01:56:02,320
typically does, as the um technology

3118
01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:04,880
gets better, the laws trying to regulate

3119
01:56:04,880 --> 01:56:07,760
it attempt to get even stronger. So the

3120
01:56:07,760 --> 01:56:09,119
same way that your company would be

3121
01:56:09,119 --> 01:56:11,360
bound by whatever the privacy laws are

3122
01:56:11,360 --> 01:56:14,320
for purposes of your business outfront

3123
01:56:14,320 --> 01:56:17,280
would be bound by the very same laws

3124
01:56:17,280 --> 01:56:19,119
on behalf of their advertisers.

3125
01:56:19,119 --> 01:56:22,320
>> I guess from my perspective uh it seems

3126
01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:24,000
like the laws are getting less in the

3127
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:25,360
favor of the consumer the past couple

3128
01:56:25,360 --> 01:56:27,040
years. And so that doesn't seem like a

3129
01:56:27,040 --> 01:56:29,920
train you want to be on right now. I

3130
01:56:29,920 --> 01:56:31,599
understand, but I just I want to point

3131
01:56:31,599 --> 01:56:34,480
out that you're objecting to one

3132
01:56:34,480 --> 01:56:38,000
business using the same exact type of

3133
01:56:38,000 --> 01:56:40,239
information and data

3134
01:56:40,239 --> 01:56:41,840
>> that you're currently using on behalf of

3135
01:56:41,840 --> 01:56:43,440
your employer and you're recognizing is

3136
01:56:43,440 --> 01:56:45,280
used worldwide.

3137
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:47,920
>> I I also use AI for my for my work. I

3138
01:56:47,920 --> 01:56:49,440
don't personally give it access to my

3139
01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:50,960
calendar, any of my personal stuff. I

3140
01:56:50,960 --> 01:56:51,599
don't trust it.

3141
01:56:51,599 --> 01:56:53,199
>> Correct. Which is why we're not asking

3142
01:56:53,199 --> 01:56:54,880
for any personal information. It's all

3143
01:56:54,880 --> 01:56:56,560
going to be anonymous. Uh, well, I'm

3144
01:56:56,560 --> 01:56:58,159
responding to your point about like me

3145
01:56:58,159 --> 01:56:59,840
using it for my work and you guys trying

3146
01:56:59,840 --> 01:57:01,280
to do the same thing. And all I'm trying

3147
01:57:01,280 --> 01:57:03,199
to point out is the difference between a

3148
01:57:03,199 --> 01:57:04,719
publicly traded company that needs to

3149
01:57:04,719 --> 01:57:08,239
make more money as your, you know, uh,

3150
01:57:08,239 --> 01:57:10,639
responsibility versus what the residents

3151
01:57:10,639 --> 01:57:12,400
actually want and care about.

3152
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:15,520
>> I would like to say though that

3153
01:57:15,520 --> 01:57:18,639
you asked you you said it wasn't brought

3154
01:57:18,639 --> 01:57:20,320
up that we were concerned about

3155
01:57:20,320 --> 01:57:22,239
individual ad targeting to mobile

3156
01:57:22,239 --> 01:57:24,480
phones. And I thought we spent about a

3157
01:57:24,480 --> 01:57:25,840
half an hour on that issue.

3158
01:57:25,840 --> 01:57:27,760
>> Oh, sorry. Then I misspoke. I was saying

3159
01:57:27,760 --> 01:57:29,760
the the the conversation from my

3160
01:57:29,760 --> 01:57:31,119
perspective was more about like the out

3161
01:57:31,119 --> 01:57:32,639
the the out of home billboards, right?

3162
01:57:32,639 --> 01:57:34,159
The the messages changing on the

3163
01:57:34,159 --> 01:57:36,239
billboard every 8 seconds, etc. I'm

3164
01:57:36,239 --> 01:57:38,159
talking about the fact that they part of

3165
01:57:38,159 --> 01:57:40,639
the media buys are also selling

3166
01:57:40,639 --> 01:57:42,719
impressions that occur on your personal

3167
01:57:42,719 --> 01:57:46,000
phone when people go by. They

3168
01:57:46,000 --> 01:57:48,400
>> again my understanding is this billboard

3169
01:57:48,400 --> 01:57:49,840
won't have that capacity and they're

3170
01:57:49,840 --> 01:57:52,239
saying it never will.

3171
01:57:52,239 --> 01:57:55,199
Oh, that so uh the the sales team will

3172
01:57:55,199 --> 01:57:57,199
not sell media buys that will be able to

3173
01:57:57,199 --> 01:57:57,920
set.

3174
01:57:57,920 --> 01:58:00,400
>> So again, what we tested to is that our

3175
01:58:00,400 --> 01:58:03,040
billboard will not have the ability to

3176
01:58:03,040 --> 01:58:05,679
track anybody or anything

3177
01:58:05,679 --> 01:58:07,599
>> or collect it.

3178
01:58:07,599 --> 01:58:08,800
>> That is so that's different though

3179
01:58:08,800 --> 01:58:10,400
because you guys then you guys buy the

3180
01:58:10,400 --> 01:58:12,239
data from the third parties that can

3181
01:58:12,239 --> 01:58:13,440
then send the information to the mobile

3182
01:58:13,440 --> 01:58:14,000
phone.

3183
01:58:14,000 --> 01:58:15,920
>> Again,

3184
01:58:15,920 --> 01:58:17,199
no different.

3185
01:58:17,199 --> 01:58:19,520
>> Yes. as it as it relates to any

3186
01:58:19,520 --> 01:58:23,040
advertiser, it it's no different than

3187
01:58:23,040 --> 01:58:24,800
the

3188
01:58:24,800 --> 01:58:26,560
whether we have a billboard or not, we

3189
01:58:26,560 --> 01:58:29,840
could still any company could use that

3190
01:58:29,840 --> 01:58:31,360
technology. That has nothing to do with

3191
01:58:31,360 --> 01:58:32,159
the billboard.

3192
01:58:32,159 --> 01:58:34,239
>> Yeah, I think I just want to clarify the

3193
01:58:34,239 --> 01:58:35,520
>> technology you're talking about is

3194
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:37,840
sending ads based on someone being in a

3195
01:58:37,840 --> 01:58:39,599
certain area in town.

3196
01:58:39,599 --> 01:58:41,520
>> And again, that's something you use for

3197
01:58:41,520 --> 01:58:43,119
your healthcare. That's something

3198
01:58:43,119 --> 01:58:45,199
anybody could use. Just be clear. I

3199
01:58:45,199 --> 01:58:47,280
don't actually use it for unrelated.

3200
01:58:47,280 --> 01:58:48,239
>> Could if I wanted to. Yes.

3201
01:58:48,239 --> 01:58:49,199
>> Right. Unrelated.

3202
01:58:49,199 --> 01:58:50,560
>> I just want to go back to something

3203
01:58:50,560 --> 01:58:52,320
regarding the board of zoning board of

3204
01:58:52,320 --> 01:58:54,719
adjustment is I think we did spend quite

3205
01:58:54,719 --> 01:58:56,480
a bit of time trying to determine that

3206
01:58:56,480 --> 01:58:58,159
this billboard will not be able to

3207
01:58:58,159 --> 01:59:00,639
target individuals

3208
01:59:00,639 --> 01:59:03,520
and and if they're selling targeting to

3209
01:59:03,520 --> 01:59:05,040
phones, it has nothing to do with the

3210
01:59:05,040 --> 01:59:07,840
billboard. I think

3211
01:59:07,840 --> 01:59:09,440
>> that's not what I'm seeing. On outfront

3212
01:59:09,440 --> 01:59:11,280
mobile seems to be the product. And

3213
01:59:11,280 --> 01:59:12,239
>> that's what I was trying to bring up.

3214
01:59:12,239 --> 01:59:13,040
Yes.

3215
01:59:13,040 --> 01:59:14,320
But what does the billboard have to do

3216
01:59:14,320 --> 01:59:14,960
with front

3217
01:59:14,960 --> 01:59:17,360
>> to do with the digital billboard itself?

3218
01:59:17,360 --> 01:59:19,360
It can be so again

3219
01:59:19,360 --> 01:59:21,280
>> they they don't work together.

3220
01:59:21,280 --> 01:59:23,040
>> It it says they do. It says if you get

3221
01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:25,440
an impression on the digital billboard

3222
01:59:25,440 --> 01:59:27,280
out front will help you give the same

3223
01:59:27,280 --> 01:59:29,119
impression on the mobile device later.

3224
01:59:29,119 --> 01:59:31,760
And that's what referred to as mobile.

3225
01:59:31,760 --> 01:59:34,159
>> It's unrelated to the ad that's on the

3226
01:59:34,159 --> 01:59:37,040
billboard.

3227
01:59:37,040 --> 01:59:38,639
>> That's not what I'm reading on

3228
01:59:38,639 --> 01:59:40,400
outfront.com.

3229
01:59:40,400 --> 01:59:42,159
I don't think that technology is powered

3230
01:59:42,159 --> 01:59:43,920
by something inherent in the billboard.

3231
01:59:43,920 --> 01:59:45,199
I think it's like, hey, I could sell you

3232
01:59:45,199 --> 01:59:47,040
the Red Bank special. It's an ad on a

3233
01:59:47,040 --> 01:59:48,480
billboard and I target everyone in

3234
01:59:48,480 --> 01:59:50,159
07701.

3235
01:59:50,159 --> 01:59:52,159
That's your Redbank advertising package.

3236
01:59:52,159 --> 01:59:54,480
>> No, it says it's based on impressions on

3237
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:55,040
the billboard,

3238
01:59:55,040 --> 01:59:58,960
>> right? So, if someone who lives at 07701

3239
01:59:58,960 --> 02:00:01,679
is in that area, no different than if it

3240
02:00:01,679 --> 02:00:04,800
was a school. If the school, anytime you

3241
02:00:04,800 --> 02:00:07,040
come near the school, they could buy

3242
02:00:07,040 --> 02:00:09,119
these ads and have something sent to the

3243
02:00:09,119 --> 02:00:12,239
phone about we're closing early, come

3244
02:00:12,239 --> 02:00:14,000
pick up your kids early. It

3245
02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:17,440
>> it shows on this site, the front site,

3246
02:00:17,440 --> 02:00:19,360
it shows the view cone from the

3247
02:00:19,360 --> 02:00:22,400
billboard targeting a car passing by and

3248
02:00:22,400 --> 02:00:24,320
then that individual's phone later

3249
02:00:24,320 --> 02:00:26,080
getting the same impression. How is that

3250
02:00:26,080 --> 02:00:28,320
not tracking that car?

3251
02:00:28,320 --> 02:00:31,679
>> There's nothing on the actual structure.

3252
02:00:31,679 --> 02:00:33,520
There's no device or hardware on the

3253
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:34,080
billboard.

3254
02:00:34,080 --> 02:00:35,599
>> I understand it's it's in it's in the

3255
02:00:35,599 --> 02:00:37,360
phone. I The phone is tracking the

3256
02:00:37,360 --> 02:00:38,960
device. It's selling it to a data

3257
02:00:38,960 --> 02:00:40,159
broker. You're buying it from the data

3258
02:00:40,159 --> 02:00:41,520
broker. So, there's a bit of changing

3259
02:00:41,520 --> 02:00:44,800
hands, but ultimately

3260
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:46,719
I mean, ultimately, it's it's just the

3261
02:00:46,719 --> 02:00:49,040
structure. There's nothing correlating

3262
02:00:49,040 --> 02:00:51,360
the billboard to the phone in data

3263
02:00:51,360 --> 02:00:53,119
collection. If anything, it's the third

3264
02:00:53,119 --> 02:00:55,520
party from my understanding. I I'm not

3265
02:00:55,520 --> 02:00:57,440
involved in the sales or the analytics

3266
02:00:57,440 --> 02:00:59,199
or the advertising. I I'm in the real

3267
02:00:59,199 --> 02:01:01,040
estate department for outfront. Let let

3268
02:01:01,040 --> 02:01:04,000
me let me give you an example.

3269
02:01:04,000 --> 02:01:05,599
>> Vic, may I use you as an example?

3270
02:01:05,599 --> 02:01:05,920
>> Sure.

3271
02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:07,679
>> Thank you.

3272
02:01:07,679 --> 02:01:10,960
If Vic wants to send targeted ads to

3273
02:01:10,960 --> 02:01:13,360
Redbank residents,

3274
02:01:13,360 --> 02:01:16,239
he can do an ad by like what we're

3275
02:01:16,239 --> 02:01:19,199
talking about and it could be anytime

3276
02:01:19,199 --> 02:01:21,280
there's a hit that someone who has a zip

3277
02:01:21,280 --> 02:01:25,520
code of 07701 drives by Beravino,

3278
02:01:25,520 --> 02:01:28,000
they get an ad to their phone about an

3279
02:01:28,000 --> 02:01:31,520
about a pasta sale.

3280
02:01:31,520 --> 02:01:33,360
That's the equivalent of what I believe

3281
02:01:33,360 --> 02:01:35,760
Mr. Ramirez is talking about. It's not

3282
02:01:35,760 --> 02:01:38,639
related to the billboard use. It is a

3283
02:01:38,639 --> 02:01:41,199
technological service that is offered to

3284
02:01:41,199 --> 02:01:44,239
anyone irrespective of it. It just so

3285
02:01:44,239 --> 02:01:47,920
happens that the billboard use is the

3286
02:01:47,920 --> 02:01:49,440
primary use. No different than a

3287
02:01:49,440 --> 02:01:52,639
restaurant or a library or a bakery. So

3288
02:01:52,639 --> 02:01:54,719
again, it's no different than any other

3289
02:01:54,719 --> 02:01:57,040
technology any other business in town is

3290
02:01:57,040 --> 02:01:59,679
utilizing today. So, the only reason I

3291
02:01:59,679 --> 02:02:02,400
brought that up was because I'm glad you

3292
02:02:02,400 --> 02:02:05,280
brought the distinction. It was not

3293
02:02:05,280 --> 02:02:07,119
because I've dealt I' I've nerded out on

3294
02:02:07,119 --> 02:02:08,400
this stuff for a long time. I knew it

3295
02:02:08,400 --> 02:02:09,920
was not exactly what you guys were

3296
02:02:09,920 --> 02:02:11,280
discussing earlier. So, I wanted to

3297
02:02:11,280 --> 02:02:13,440
bring it to everybody's attention.

3298
02:02:13,440 --> 02:02:15,679
As consumers, as somebody who's served

3299
02:02:15,679 --> 02:02:17,760
ads, nobody wants more ads. I'm thinking

3300
02:02:17,760 --> 02:02:19,119
about as a resident, I'm thinking about

3301
02:02:19,119 --> 02:02:20,719
kids, all that sort of targeting. Just

3302
02:02:20,719 --> 02:02:22,880
wanted to bring it up. I think the more

3303
02:02:22,880 --> 02:02:24,800
important issue though is thinking about

3304
02:02:24,800 --> 02:02:27,840
again just because it's how it is today

3305
02:02:27,840 --> 02:02:28,800
doesn't mean that's what it's going to

3306
02:02:28,800 --> 02:02:30,880
be like tomorrow. New Jersey could

3307
02:02:30,880 --> 02:02:33,440
change its rules next year, rebules next

3308
02:02:33,440 --> 02:02:35,920
year and we see how fast technology is

3309
02:02:35,920 --> 02:02:39,199
changing and you know the uh from my

3310
02:02:39,199 --> 02:02:41,040
perspective has been getting worse for

3311
02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:43,040
the consumer. And so just thinking about

3312
02:02:43,040 --> 02:02:45,280
what putting those parameters in place

3313
02:02:45,280 --> 02:02:47,840
now as you think about um as you think

3314
02:02:47,840 --> 02:02:49,040
about this deal whatever you call it.

3315
02:02:49,040 --> 02:02:51,040
And that's exactly what we're doing by

3316
02:02:51,040 --> 02:02:53,679
saying this billboard can't do that.

3317
02:02:53,679 --> 02:02:55,840
>> Yeah. I was going to say what what um do

3318
02:02:55,840 --> 02:02:58,560
you suggest as someone who's uh let's

3319
02:02:58,560 --> 02:03:00,000
call you somewhat of an expert. You've

3320
02:03:00,000 --> 02:03:01,679
been doing this for 20 years. So you're

3321
02:03:01,679 --> 02:03:03,360
talking about what parameters we should

3322
02:03:03,360 --> 02:03:04,960
consider, but what you've heard us

3323
02:03:04,960 --> 02:03:07,599
talking about some of our concerns. I

3324
02:03:07,599 --> 02:03:09,440
think it's quite clear that invasion of

3325
02:03:09,440 --> 02:03:11,440
privacy is not a public benefit to the

3326
02:03:11,440 --> 02:03:13,360
residents of Redbank. We've heard about

3327
02:03:13,360 --> 02:03:14,560
a lot of the benefits that you're

3328
02:03:14,560 --> 02:03:16,800
espousing, but invasion of privacy is

3329
02:03:16,800 --> 02:03:18,159
certainly, I think we'll all agree, is

3330
02:03:18,159 --> 02:03:20,239
not a benefit to anyone in the town

3331
02:03:20,239 --> 02:03:21,679
>> to invade anybody's privacy.

3332
02:03:21,679 --> 02:03:21,920
>> Correct.

3333
02:03:21,920 --> 02:03:23,840
>> Well, I think the point is that a lot of

3334
02:03:23,840 --> 02:03:25,440
the third parties that you're dealing

3335
02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:28,000
with arguably are, right? They're

3336
02:03:28,000 --> 02:03:29,440
tracking your phone.

3337
02:03:29,440 --> 02:03:29,840
>> It's

3338
02:03:29,840 --> 02:03:31,840
>> there's a circular kind of advertising

3339
02:03:31,840 --> 02:03:33,040
going on here. It's not the billboard,

3340
02:03:33,040 --> 02:03:34,480
it's the other it's the other third

3341
02:03:34,480 --> 02:03:35,760
party and everyone's doing it.

3342
02:03:35,760 --> 02:03:38,800
>> Well, it was with it was by consent.

3343
02:03:38,800 --> 02:03:40,080
>> I understand somebody clicked the

3344
02:03:40,080 --> 02:03:42,239
consent when they signed up or whatever.

3345
02:03:42,239 --> 02:03:44,719
But again, this is not specific to the

3346
02:03:44,719 --> 02:03:46,719
billboard use, which is what we're here

3347
02:03:46,719 --> 02:03:49,119
for. You're talking about a much bigger

3348
02:03:49,119 --> 02:03:52,400
issue that's plaguing the world as

3349
02:03:52,400 --> 02:03:55,360
opposed to this particular use at this

3350
02:03:55,360 --> 02:03:56,080
location.

3351
02:03:56,080 --> 02:03:57,360
>> I understand, but I want to finish my

3352
02:03:57,360 --> 02:03:59,440
question to the witness or, you know, to

3353
02:03:59,440 --> 02:04:01,920
the resident. So, you're in the business

3354
02:04:01,920 --> 02:04:04,320
for 20 years. What parameters or what

3355
02:04:04,320 --> 02:04:06,480
else do you want us to consider? What

3356
02:04:06,480 --> 02:04:08,560
I'm listening, what else can we ask or

3357
02:04:08,560 --> 02:04:11,520
what else can we ask of them? They're willing to take down eight

3358
02:04:11,520 --> 02:04:13,119
faces.

3359
02:04:13,119 --> 02:04:14,880
So

3360
02:04:14,880 --> 02:04:17,599
that seems to be

3361
02:04:17,599 --> 02:04:21,920
pretty good. Um right. Um we have one. I

3362
02:04:21,920 --> 02:04:23,280
guess the question I would have for Miss

3363
02:04:23,280 --> 02:04:25,679
Kimco is what makes this one site eight

3364
02:04:25,679 --> 02:04:28,719
times as valuable? Um so we didn't hear

3365
02:04:28,719 --> 02:04:29,119
that yet.

3366
02:04:29,119 --> 02:04:29,840
>> I can answer that.

3367
02:04:29,840 --> 02:04:32,000
>> But before you answer that, do you have

3368
02:04:32,000 --> 02:04:35,040
you're asking us to be uh cognizant of

3369
02:04:35,040 --> 02:04:36,239
certain parameters and things like that?

3370
02:04:36,239 --> 02:04:37,840
Like what specifically else do you think

3371
02:04:37,840 --> 02:04:39,840
we should be asking her? and and and a

3372
02:04:39,840 --> 02:04:43,840
good so uh I will say uh kind of came

3373
02:04:43,840 --> 02:04:46,560
here last minute bit jetlagged uh for

3374
02:04:46,560 --> 02:04:48,880
different so but then I have not give

3375
02:04:48,880 --> 02:04:50,320
much thought to this ahead of time so I

3376
02:04:50,320 --> 02:04:53,280
was kind of spitball but I think based

3377
02:04:53,280 --> 02:04:55,440
on what I know what I've read about out

3378
02:04:55,440 --> 02:04:57,119
front

3379
02:04:57,119 --> 02:04:58,400
I'm not really that concerned about

3380
02:04:58,400 --> 02:05:00,080
their data collection right now it's

3381
02:05:00,080 --> 02:05:02,960
just more

3382
02:05:02,960 --> 02:05:05,199
stipulating that like they they you know

3383
02:05:05,199 --> 02:05:06,880
actually and again based on New Jersey

3384
02:05:06,880 --> 02:05:08,560
right now they can't go to first party

3385
02:05:08,560 --> 02:05:10,800
data collection because they would my

3386
02:05:10,800 --> 02:05:12,080
understanding is have a whole set of

3387
02:05:12,080 --> 02:05:12,880
like regulations, right?

3388
02:05:12,880 --> 02:05:14,159
>> But we're committing even if the law

3389
02:05:14,159 --> 02:05:15,440
changes we're not going to do it.

3390
02:05:15,440 --> 02:05:16,960
>> Okay. And that's so again I don't have

3391
02:05:16,960 --> 02:05:17,760
but and so

3392
02:05:17,760 --> 02:05:18,639
>> that's what we offered

3393
02:05:18,639 --> 02:05:20,320
>> if if if that's the case then yeah it's

3394
02:05:20,320 --> 02:05:22,080
just kind of like doubling down there

3395
02:05:22,080 --> 02:05:25,040
just you know whether it's the um type

3396
02:05:25,040 --> 02:05:26,239
because the other thing also is if

3397
02:05:26,239 --> 02:05:27,760
they're if they are not sending any data

3398
02:05:27,760 --> 02:05:29,360
to the third part to the third parties

3399
02:05:29,360 --> 02:05:33,280
like if it's it's more it's more kind of

3400
02:05:33,280 --> 02:05:35,920
keeping the status quo as it is. Um,

3401
02:05:35,920 --> 02:05:37,119
that's what I more want to encourage you

3402
02:05:37,119 --> 02:05:38,159
guys to like think about. And if you

3403
02:05:38,159 --> 02:05:39,440
guys already have that all in place,

3404
02:05:39,440 --> 02:05:40,800
then great.

3405
02:05:40,800 --> 02:05:42,159
>> I don't think we do. I mean, what we

3406
02:05:42,159 --> 02:05:43,920
heard a lot is we we asked a lot of

3407
02:05:43,920 --> 02:05:45,520
questions about how do the ads get

3408
02:05:45,520 --> 02:05:47,520
placed? You know, how much lead time do

3409
02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:49,599
you need um before an ad is approved

3410
02:05:49,599 --> 02:05:52,239
before it's shown? But that's all based

3411
02:05:52,239 --> 02:05:55,599
on um today's technology and uh the

3412
02:05:55,599 --> 02:05:57,760
policies of the company right now. But

3413
02:05:57,760 --> 02:06:00,400
the use variance is indefinite. And so I

3414
02:06:00,400 --> 02:06:01,760
think your your point about how does

3415
02:06:01,760 --> 02:06:03,360
technology change over time is

3416
02:06:03,360 --> 02:06:05,520
considered in the use when we're

3417
02:06:05,520 --> 02:06:06,480
considering the variance.

3418
02:06:06,480 --> 02:06:09,040
>> Yeah. Are are you guys keeping any I

3419
02:06:09,040 --> 02:06:10,320
know you're not selling are you keeping

3420
02:06:10,320 --> 02:06:12,080
any first party data or any anything

3421
02:06:12,080 --> 02:06:12,960
else?

3422
02:06:12,960 --> 02:06:13,920
>> Not to my knowledge.

3423
02:06:13,920 --> 02:06:15,520
>> No. And again it's anonymous. And to

3424
02:06:15,520 --> 02:06:17,040
address your question, Mr. Hegno, I

3425
02:06:17,040 --> 02:06:20,000
think that you you you made my point is

3426
02:06:20,000 --> 02:06:23,679
that the type of um

3427
02:06:23,679 --> 02:06:26,159
use of data that Mr. Ramirez is talking

3428
02:06:26,159 --> 02:06:28,400
about where it's targeted to your phone.

3429
02:06:28,400 --> 02:06:31,760
We have eight faces now that out front

3430
02:06:31,760 --> 02:06:34,239
has leases for and could gather all the

3431
02:06:34,239 --> 02:06:37,040
same data for from those very eight

3432
02:06:37,040 --> 02:06:39,520
spaces. Nine spaces, I'm sorry, nine

3433
02:06:39,520 --> 02:06:42,320
faces. So we're going from having nine

3434
02:06:42,320 --> 02:06:44,480
places where we can use third party data

3435
02:06:44,480 --> 02:06:46,639
or anyone could where we're giving up

3436
02:06:46,639 --> 02:06:49,360
any use of that property at all and now

3437
02:06:49,360 --> 02:06:51,440
it's all just being on one. So the

3438
02:06:51,440 --> 02:06:53,679
benefit is is the reduction in the

3439
02:06:53,679 --> 02:06:58,239
number and as far as why a digital is

3440
02:06:58,239 --> 02:07:01,280
more uh lucrative. I believe that Andrew

3441
02:07:01,280 --> 02:07:03,119
could testify because it opens up to a

3442
02:07:03,119 --> 02:07:06,239
much wider array of users.

3443
02:07:06,239 --> 02:07:07,520
>> Correct. Well, it also is more

3444
02:07:07,520 --> 02:07:09,440
affordable for the local advertisers.

3445
02:07:09,440 --> 02:07:11,760
Think of it as like a pizza pie, which

3446
02:07:11,760 --> 02:07:13,440
has always been an example used where

3447
02:07:13,440 --> 02:07:16,000
you buy a slice of pizza or instead of

3448
02:07:16,000 --> 02:07:18,079
buying the whole entire pie for a static

3449
02:07:18,079 --> 02:07:20,239
billboard, you have to buy that entire

3450
02:07:20,239 --> 02:07:22,079
billboard for a set period of time.

3451
02:07:22,079 --> 02:07:25,040
>> Cumulative, excuse my pronunciation, let

3452
02:07:25,040 --> 02:07:28,079
me say it better. Cumulatively,

3453
02:07:28,079 --> 02:07:30,880
when you add up all the slices of pie,

3454
02:07:30,880 --> 02:07:32,880
there's potential for you to earn more

3455
02:07:32,880 --> 02:07:34,880
than there would be for one user to use

3456
02:07:34,880 --> 02:07:36,880
one billboard for a month.

3457
02:07:36,880 --> 02:07:39,360
>> Correct? So that's the distinction as to

3458
02:07:39,360 --> 02:07:41,440
why they're more lucrative,

3459
02:07:41,440 --> 02:07:43,679
>> why you're willing to give up the eight

3460
02:07:43,679 --> 02:07:45,199
and for the one.

3461
02:07:45,199 --> 02:07:47,920
>> Yes.

3462
02:07:47,920 --> 02:07:50,639
And and also just as it goes to the the

3463
02:07:50,639 --> 02:07:54,000
particular suitability, this location is

3464
02:07:54,000 --> 02:07:56,880
a better, more appropriate location for

3465
02:07:56,880 --> 02:07:58,560
the type of advertising because it's in

3466
02:07:58,560 --> 02:08:00,480
the center of your business district on

3467
02:08:00,480 --> 02:08:02,560
a very busy road where some of the other

3468
02:08:02,560 --> 02:08:05,040
billboards might not be in areas as

3469
02:08:05,040 --> 02:08:07,199
appropriate as this one. So that's also

3470
02:08:07,199 --> 02:08:10,560
one of the reasons

3471
02:08:10,560 --> 02:08:13,520
>> one one other thought just came up. Um

3472
02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:15,920
do you guys uh if you can't sell all

3473
02:08:15,920 --> 02:08:17,520
your inventory do you know what happens

3474
02:08:17,520 --> 02:08:20,000
to like the remnant inventory is

3475
02:08:20,000 --> 02:08:21,599
>> saying I didn't understand a question.

3476
02:08:21,599 --> 02:08:24,560
>> Um so and I haven't done an out of home

3477
02:08:24,560 --> 02:08:26,639
buy in a long time but like you guys you

3478
02:08:26,639 --> 02:08:28,079
know you have this many impressions to

3479
02:08:28,079 --> 02:08:30,079
sell this many slots a day a month

3480
02:08:30,079 --> 02:08:32,239
however you're selling it. What happens

3481
02:08:32,239 --> 02:08:33,520
if you don't if you don't sell all the

3482
02:08:33,520 --> 02:08:35,599
inventory? Meaning if there's extra

3483
02:08:35,599 --> 02:08:36,560
slots, yeah,

3484
02:08:36,560 --> 02:08:38,400
>> I think they get used more for the

3485
02:08:38,400 --> 02:08:39,679
>> for the public service.

3486
02:08:39,679 --> 02:08:40,560
>> Public service.

3487
02:08:40,560 --> 02:08:42,000
>> Is that is that is that purely where it

3488
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:43,280
goes or could that go like do you guys

3489
02:08:43,280 --> 02:08:45,360
have like like a extended network of

3490
02:08:45,360 --> 02:08:47,840
partners that could then serve ads?

3491
02:08:47,840 --> 02:08:49,679
>> Not to my knowledge. No,

3492
02:08:49,679 --> 02:08:51,280
>> I would speaking to the

3493
02:08:51,280 --> 02:08:53,280
>> Sorry, not not to my knowledge. I would

3494
02:08:53,280 --> 02:08:56,400
just dig in there in case there is

3495
02:08:56,400 --> 02:08:59,280
uh there's a ton of um just examples of

3496
02:08:59,280 --> 02:09:00,800
advertisers

3497
02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:02,880
having their ads appear on and this is

3498
02:09:02,880 --> 02:09:04,239
not out of homes is like on the internet

3499
02:09:04,239 --> 02:09:06,480
and stuff like that being p being thrown

3500
02:09:06,480 --> 02:09:07,840
onto like what they call remnant

3501
02:09:07,840 --> 02:09:09,360
inventory stuff that was not sold and

3502
02:09:09,360 --> 02:09:10,800
being on like you know gambling sites

3503
02:09:10,800 --> 02:09:12,480
and stuff that they didn't want to be on

3504
02:09:12,480 --> 02:09:14,320
and so I don't quite know what the

3505
02:09:14,320 --> 02:09:16,880
equivalent could be here other than kind

3506
02:09:16,880 --> 02:09:18,560
of reselling the space that your sales

3507
02:09:18,560 --> 02:09:21,119
team wasn't able to sell something going

3508
02:09:21,119 --> 02:09:21,360
up

3509
02:09:21,360 --> 02:09:22,800
>> that would be given away that would be

3510
02:09:22,800 --> 02:09:25,679
giving away valuable advertising space

3511
02:09:25,679 --> 02:09:27,280
for free and it would devalue.

3512
02:09:27,280 --> 02:09:29,040
>> It's not giving it away. You guys just

3513
02:09:29,040 --> 02:09:30,400
sell it at a big discount like somebody

3514
02:09:30,400 --> 02:09:32,000
else sells it for you. It's like this.

3515
02:09:32,000 --> 02:09:33,840
And so I don't I I I'm not I don't know

3516
02:09:33,840 --> 02:09:35,360
if you guys do that. If the sales team

3517
02:09:35,360 --> 02:09:37,360
does that, you probably could put

3518
02:09:37,360 --> 02:09:38,960
something in there that Red Bank gets

3519
02:09:38,960 --> 02:09:41,440
whatever unsold inventory on top of the

3520
02:09:41,440 --> 02:09:43,520
12 and a half% if if it happens.

3521
02:09:43,520 --> 02:09:45,280
>> That that doesn't happen that there is

3522
02:09:45,280 --> 02:09:47,440
no discounted ad if it's not sold. It

3523
02:09:47,440 --> 02:09:49,840
either goes to the community service

3524
02:09:49,840 --> 02:09:52,239
>> or they run each ad that they already

3525
02:09:52,239 --> 02:09:54,239
have for a few more seconds.

3526
02:09:54,239 --> 02:09:54,639
>> Okay.

3527
02:09:54,639 --> 02:09:56,400
>> To fill up the instead of eight ads,

3528
02:09:56,400 --> 02:09:57,280
it's six.

3529
02:09:57,280 --> 02:09:57,760
>> Yeah.

3530
02:09:57,760 --> 02:09:59,599
>> Not not more seconds. Sorry, Jen. To

3531
02:09:59,599 --> 02:10:01,040
clarify, it's just instead of running

3532
02:10:01,040 --> 02:10:03,679
the it's 8second ads, but instead of

3533
02:10:03,679 --> 02:10:05,679
eight advertisers, it's just the six

3534
02:10:05,679 --> 02:10:07,199
that you know that have that have been

3535
02:10:07,199 --> 02:10:07,520
sold.

3536
02:10:07,520 --> 02:10:09,440
>> I'm sorry. I meant that they get each ad

3537
02:10:09,440 --> 02:10:13,840
gets longer time, not in that increment.

3538
02:10:13,840 --> 02:10:16,880
>> That's it. Yeah. I mean, um, I can stop

3539
02:10:16,880 --> 02:10:20,480
and talk for a long time.

3540
02:10:20,480 --> 02:10:22,400
>> I have just one question.

3541
02:10:22,400 --> 02:10:23,280
>> Oh, sorry.

3542
02:10:23,280 --> 02:10:25,199
>> One quick question. This proposed

3543
02:10:25,199 --> 02:10:28,159
billboard has two sides, correct?

3544
02:10:28,159 --> 02:10:28,560
>> Correct.

3545
02:10:28,560 --> 02:10:30,960
>> Now, will both sides always show the

3546
02:10:30,960 --> 02:10:33,199
same ad?

3547
02:10:33,199 --> 02:10:35,599
>> Uh, no. There are separate ID numbers on

3548
02:10:35,599 --> 02:10:36,719
the billboards. It would be two

3549
02:10:36,719 --> 02:10:37,360
different.

3550
02:10:37,360 --> 02:10:40,239
>> So, there's 16 impressions then, not

3551
02:10:40,239 --> 02:10:43,440
eight. Correct.

3552
02:10:43,440 --> 02:10:45,119
When you say impressions,

3553
02:10:45,119 --> 02:10:52,079
>> well, so there's um eight second in a cycle,

3554
02:10:52,079 --> 02:10:54,560
>> but if there's two sides,

3555
02:10:54,560 --> 02:10:59,040
>> sign gets one of gets that same number,

3556
02:10:59,040 --> 02:11:01,280
>> right? But the now the ads could be

3557
02:11:01,280 --> 02:11:05,360
different. So there could be 16

3558
02:11:05,360 --> 02:11:09,920
different 8second Yes in one cycle. So

3559
02:11:09,920 --> 02:11:13,520
the ad facing east could be different

3560
02:11:13,520 --> 02:11:15,679
than the ad facing west.

3561
02:11:15,679 --> 02:11:17,760
>> Yes. Unless someone purchased it

3562
02:11:17,760 --> 02:11:19,520
>> for both sides. Correct.

3563
02:11:19,520 --> 02:11:23,599
>> Okay. I just wanted to clarify that.

3564
02:11:23,599 --> 02:11:24,960
>> Um I also just had a point of

3565
02:11:24,960 --> 02:11:26,320
clarification. You mentioned earlier

3566
02:11:26,320 --> 02:11:28,079
that there's nothing on the app that on

3567
02:11:28,079 --> 02:11:29,360
the billboard that would actually allow

3568
02:11:29,360 --> 02:11:32,000
you to collect data. But we had said you

3569
02:11:32,000 --> 02:11:33,520
had said earlier that there are video

3570
02:11:33,520 --> 02:11:35,520
cameras for fail safe. So the hardware

3571
02:11:35,520 --> 02:11:37,440
is there right? You do have real time.

3572
02:11:37,440 --> 02:11:40,320
It's facing the actual signed display

3573
02:11:40,320 --> 02:11:42,560
itself. So this is the billboard. The

3574
02:11:42,560 --> 02:11:45,119
camera is camera is facing the actual

3575
02:11:45,119 --> 02:11:47,280
display. So we can monitor the display.

3576
02:11:47,280 --> 02:11:49,040
It's not facing out to the public. It's

3577
02:11:49,040 --> 02:11:51,119
not looking at cars. It's only looking

3578
02:11:51,119 --> 02:11:53,119
at the display to make sure that it's

3579
02:11:53,119 --> 02:11:55,280
running properly and if there's an

3580
02:11:55,280 --> 02:11:57,679
issue, it goes black and we make sure it

3581
02:11:57,679 --> 02:11:58,480
goes black through.

3582
02:11:58,480 --> 02:12:00,719
>> So the use case that was for tampering.

3583
02:12:00,719 --> 02:12:02,079
So if you could see someone tampering.

3584
02:12:02,079 --> 02:12:04,880
So how does that work if it's facing in

3585
02:12:04,880 --> 02:12:06,800
>> tampering the screen? tampering the

3586
02:12:06,800 --> 02:12:07,119
screen.

3587
02:12:07,119 --> 02:12:09,199
>> Yeah, that's not tampering the not not

3588
02:12:09,199 --> 02:12:11,280
tampering any part of the steel

3589
02:12:11,280 --> 02:12:13,040
structure. Okay, it's with regard to

3590
02:12:13,040 --> 02:12:15,280
it's facing the screen to know one is

3591
02:12:15,280 --> 02:12:17,760
someone tampering with the screen. Two,

3592
02:12:17,760 --> 02:12:19,840
is there a glitch on the screen? So,

3593
02:12:19,840 --> 02:12:20,960
does it go all white?

3594
02:12:20,960 --> 02:12:21,760
>> Okay.

3595
02:12:21,760 --> 02:12:24,639
>> Is it is it doing something that would

3596
02:12:24,639 --> 02:12:26,560
need it to be shut off immediately?

3597
02:12:26,560 --> 02:12:28,960
>> Okay. And that's for monitoring the

3598
02:12:28,960 --> 02:12:29,599
screen.

3599
02:12:29,599 --> 02:12:31,440
>> Right. And so when when you had said you

3600
02:12:31,440 --> 02:12:32,480
would be very comfortable with the

3601
02:12:32,480 --> 02:12:34,159
condition that you won't collect like we

3602
02:12:34,159 --> 02:12:35,760
could write into that that those cameras

3603
02:12:35,760 --> 02:12:38,320
stay facing the screen. Okay.

3604
02:12:38,320 --> 02:12:41,119
>> Um similarly there are sensors on the

3605
02:12:41,119 --> 02:12:42,239
sign

3606
02:12:42,239 --> 02:12:44,000
>> for light right.

3607
02:12:44,000 --> 02:12:45,119
>> Yeah. I just want to be clear that we

3608
02:12:45,119 --> 02:12:46,639
had said there was no hardware but there

3609
02:12:46,639 --> 02:12:48,320
is it's just for different use cases.

3610
02:12:48,320 --> 02:12:50,239
>> No no no. So the and I'm sorry we

3611
02:12:50,239 --> 02:12:52,480
weren't clear. There's no

3612
02:12:52,480 --> 02:12:54,079
>> there's no data collection.

3613
02:12:54,079 --> 02:12:55,360
>> Data collector. Correct.

3614
02:12:55,360 --> 02:12:59,030
>> Fair. That's right. data

3615
02:12:59,040 --> 02:13:00,800
» and there won't be you said correct.

3616
02:13:00,800 --> 02:13:01,920
>> Correct.

3617
02:13:01,920 --> 02:13:03,679
>> If the board approved this then yes

3618
02:13:03,679 --> 02:13:04,880
that's correct.

3619
02:13:04,880 --> 02:13:05,280
>> Okay.

3620
02:13:05,280 --> 02:13:06,560
>> And you're guaranteeing there won't be

3621
02:13:06,560 --> 02:13:09,760
on eight other faces in town.

3622
02:13:09,760 --> 02:13:11,920
>> We'll close the public portion of

3623
02:13:11,920 --> 02:13:14,880
questions for this witness. Let's move

3624
02:13:14,880 --> 02:13:17,040
on to your next one.

3625
02:13:17,040 --> 02:13:19,760
>> Thank you board members.

3626
02:13:19,760 --> 02:13:22,400
>> Ready? Let's go.

3627
02:13:22,400 --> 02:13:23,760
>> I should have drank this a little

3628
02:13:23,760 --> 02:13:26,079
slower. Mr. Mass. Well,

3629
02:13:26,079 --> 02:13:27,440
>> okay.

3630
02:13:27,440 --> 02:13:29,760
>> We only got 45 minutes left, so

3631
02:13:29,760 --> 02:13:32,560
>> keep going. All right.

3632
02:13:32,560 --> 02:13:34,000
>> All right. If you could state your name

3633
02:13:34,000 --> 02:13:39,750
and address.

3634
02:13:39,760 --> 02:13:42,159
» Daniel Dockerty, Dynamic Engineering,

3635
02:13:42,159 --> 02:13:45,119
1904 Main Street, Lake Ko, New Jersey.

3636
02:13:45,119 --> 02:13:47,599
And I didn't spell my last name. Daniel

3637
02:13:47,599 --> 02:13:53,199
Dockerty. D O U G H E R T Y.

3638
02:13:53,199 --> 02:13:54,400
>> Okay. Hey. Do you swear that the

3639
02:13:54,400 --> 02:13:55,760
information and testimony you're about

3640
02:13:55,760 --> 02:13:57,119
to provide will be the truth to the best

3641
02:13:57,119 --> 02:13:58,639
of your knowledge to help you guide God?

3642
02:13:58,639 --> 02:13:59,360
>> Yes, I do.

3643
02:13:59,360 --> 02:14:00,800
>> Okay. And just for the record, you're

3644
02:14:00,800 --> 02:14:02,960
testifying in your capacity as

3645
02:14:02,960 --> 02:14:04,560
>> professional engineer.

3646
02:14:04,560 --> 02:14:06,719
>> And your licenses and certifications and

3647
02:14:06,719 --> 02:14:08,320
qualifications are current, up to date,

3648
02:14:08,320 --> 02:14:09,360
and in good standing.

3649
02:14:09,360 --> 02:14:10,079
>> Yes, they are.

3650
02:14:10,079 --> 02:14:12,320
>> And I believe you testified in round

3651
02:14:12,320 --> 02:14:12,960
one.

3652
02:14:12,960 --> 02:14:14,239
>> I absolutely did.

3653
02:14:14,239 --> 02:14:14,880
>> Okay.

3654
02:14:14,880 --> 02:14:15,520
>> Yeah.

3655
02:14:15,520 --> 02:14:17,040
>> Don't hold that against him, Mr.

3656
02:14:17,040 --> 02:14:17,440
Kennedy.

3657
02:14:17,440 --> 02:14:18,719
>> We have some new.

3658
02:14:18,719 --> 02:14:19,199
>> Okay.

3659
02:14:19,199 --> 02:14:21,679
>> We have some new

3660
02:14:21,679 --> 02:14:23,599
take a moment to Yeah,

3661
02:14:23,599 --> 02:14:25,679
>> Dan, just give the board the benefit of

3662
02:14:25,679 --> 02:14:27,360
your education and how long you've been

3663
02:14:27,360 --> 02:14:29,040
a licensed professional engineer.

3664
02:14:29,040 --> 02:14:30,639
>> Certainly, I'm a graduate of Villanova

3665
02:14:30,639 --> 02:14:32,480
University with a bachelor's in civil

3666
02:14:32,480 --> 02:14:33,920
engineering. I'm a licensed engineer in

3667
02:14:33,920 --> 02:14:37,280
the state of New Jersey since 1999.

3668
02:14:37,280 --> 02:14:39,040
Uh, and I'm a principal partner with

3669
02:14:39,040 --> 02:14:41,360
dynamic engineering consultants since um

3670
02:14:41,360 --> 02:14:43,119
I've been there since 2005.

3671
02:14:43,119 --> 02:14:44,639
>> And you've been accepted as an expert in

3672
02:14:44,639 --> 02:14:46,800
the field of engineering in hundreds of

3673
02:14:46,800 --> 02:14:47,599
hearings throughout

3674
02:14:47,599 --> 02:14:48,960
>> Yeah, I would say over 100 boards

3675
02:14:48,960 --> 02:14:50,400
throughout New Jersey and of course here

3676
02:14:50,400 --> 02:14:51,360
in Redbank.

3677
02:14:51,360 --> 02:14:54,000
>> Great. Thank you. Thank you. So, being

3678
02:14:54,000 --> 02:14:56,159
that we just qualified him as an expert,

3679
02:14:56,159 --> 02:14:58,320
I'm going to turn it over to Dan to have

3680
02:14:58,320 --> 02:15:00,079
him walk through the exhibits that were

3681
02:15:00,079 --> 02:15:01,840
prepared and address some of the

3682
02:15:01,840 --> 02:15:03,440
concerns and then we'll uh go from

3683
02:15:03,440 --> 02:15:05,679
there. So, um I'm going to just

3684
02:15:05,679 --> 02:15:07,599
introduce this exhibit that was already

3685
02:15:07,599 --> 02:15:10,800
uh read in. This is the aerial exhibit

3686
02:15:10,800 --> 02:15:14,320
sheet one of one dated September 1st,

3687
02:15:14,320 --> 02:15:15,840
2026.

3688
02:15:15,840 --> 02:15:18,560
Um, this is just an aerial photo view of

3689
02:15:18,560 --> 02:15:21,280
the location. Very similar to the uh

3690
02:15:21,280 --> 02:15:24,159
aerial map that's in your plan set. For

3691
02:15:24,159 --> 02:15:25,199
now, I'm really only going to be

3692
02:15:25,199 --> 02:15:27,040
referencing stuff that would be um

3693
02:15:27,040 --> 02:15:28,960
similar to that, but it does change a

3694
02:15:28,960 --> 02:15:30,800
little bit. There are some lighting,

3695
02:15:30,800 --> 02:15:32,480
there's some lighting data on there that

3696
02:15:32,480 --> 02:15:34,480
I'll get into later in my testimony. Uh,

3697
02:15:34,480 --> 02:15:35,760
but for now, I'm really just looking at

3698
02:15:35,760 --> 02:15:38,159
the location of the site. Um, I'm sure

3699
02:15:38,159 --> 02:15:40,159
you're all familiar with the site. Uh

3700
02:15:40,159 --> 02:15:43,119
we're located at 56 Newman Springs Road

3701
02:15:43,119 --> 02:15:47,760
uh block 9701 lot 44. It's the existing

3702
02:15:47,760 --> 02:15:50,159
uh Circus Wine and Liquors building. Um

3703
02:15:50,159 --> 02:15:52,880
and we're proposing a new uh two-faced

3704
02:15:52,880 --> 02:15:55,920
um or dual faced billboard uh LED

3705
02:15:55,920 --> 02:15:58,960
billboard. Um the site's located on the

3706
02:15:58,960 --> 02:16:00,800
north side of Newman Springs Road

3707
02:16:00,800 --> 02:16:03,119
adjacent to the boundary and the border

3708
02:16:03,119 --> 02:16:05,360
with Shrewsbury to the south. We're

3709
02:16:05,360 --> 02:16:08,639
about halfway in between uh Route 35

3710
02:16:08,639 --> 02:16:11,199
Broad Street to the east and on our

3711
02:16:11,199 --> 02:16:13,040
west, the next major intersection would

3712
02:16:13,040 --> 02:16:16,000
be the the Conrail uh Railroad crossing.

3713
02:16:16,000 --> 02:16:17,360
That's the the freight railroad that

3714
02:16:17,360 --> 02:16:19,840
goes across Newman Springs Road. Um and

3715
02:16:19,840 --> 02:16:21,280
then beyond that would be Shrewsbury

3716
02:16:21,280 --> 02:16:23,599
Avenue beyond the the our picture here.

3717
02:16:23,599 --> 02:16:26,159
Uh we're located in the HB Highway

3718
02:16:26,159 --> 02:16:28,320
business zone.

3719
02:16:28,320 --> 02:16:32,479
Um behind us um and to the north is uh

3720
02:16:32,479 --> 02:16:35,359
Calpacy Park. Uh we've got uh ball

3721
02:16:35,359 --> 02:16:36,960
fields there both for school and

3722
02:16:36,960 --> 02:16:38,719
probably municipal use. I would expect

3723
02:16:38,719 --> 02:16:40,880
the school fields uh further to the

3724
02:16:40,880 --> 02:16:42,639
north of Count Basy Park or north side

3725
02:16:42,639 --> 02:16:44,960
of Count Basy Park are lit with uh

3726
02:16:44,960 --> 02:16:47,439
stansions as are the basketball courts

3727
02:16:47,439 --> 02:16:50,319
um and the parking lot that's um to our

3728
02:16:50,319 --> 02:16:54,800
north uh west. um that is a residential

3729
02:16:54,800 --> 02:16:58,080
zone, the RD zone, but it it it is of

3730
02:16:58,080 --> 02:17:00,559
note that our site's probably about 800

3731
02:17:00,559 --> 02:17:02,960
ft or so from the nearest residence,

3732
02:17:02,960 --> 02:17:05,439
which would be um to the northwest, just

3733
02:17:05,439 --> 02:17:07,840
um just past the um to to the west of

3734
02:17:07,840 --> 02:17:09,120
the basketball courts. If you can see

3735
02:17:09,120 --> 02:17:11,599
them on your plan

3736
02:17:11,599 --> 02:17:15,200
to our uh south is um as I mentioned

3737
02:17:15,200 --> 02:17:18,160
before, Shrewsbury. This is the B1 B uh

3738
02:17:18,160 --> 02:17:20,160
business district in Shrewsbury. And

3739
02:17:20,160 --> 02:17:21,599
then behind that, there are some

3740
02:17:21,599 --> 02:17:25,519
residential uses um the R3 and R4 zones

3741
02:17:25,519 --> 02:17:28,000
uh in the neighborhoods that are behind

3742
02:17:28,000 --> 02:17:30,719
um that first block of of commercial

3743
02:17:30,719 --> 02:17:33,200
uses on on Newman Springs Road. And also

3744
02:17:33,200 --> 02:17:34,880
there's some commercial uses on Haden

3745
02:17:34,880 --> 02:17:49,349
Avenue uh south of Newman Springs Road.

3746
02:17:49,359 --> 02:17:50,880
So, I I'll get into this exhibit. I

3747
02:17:50,880 --> 02:17:52,160
wanted to pull down the aerial right

3748
02:17:52,160 --> 02:17:54,559
now. Um,

3749
02:17:54,559 --> 02:17:57,040
so for for the location of our site,

3750
02:17:57,040 --> 02:18:00,240
what we're doing on site is we're taking

3751
02:18:00,240 --> 02:18:01,920
the proposed billboard. It's being put

3752
02:18:01,920 --> 02:18:03,599
and this is just on simply on the site

3753
02:18:03,599 --> 02:18:06,319
plan. It's being put within um a

3754
02:18:06,319 --> 02:18:09,120
landscape island that is immediately

3755
02:18:09,120 --> 02:18:12,080
adjacent to the existing circus wine and

3756
02:18:12,080 --> 02:18:14,960
liquors sign. that island that houses

3757
02:18:14,960 --> 02:18:17,200
that sign is is small. We're just

3758
02:18:17,200 --> 02:18:19,120
expanding that concrete island to the

3759
02:18:19,120 --> 02:18:23,519
west probably by 50 to 100% expansion.

3760
02:18:23,519 --> 02:18:26,399
Um that c that curved concrete island

3761
02:18:26,399 --> 02:18:29,519
still fits within the parking scheme and

3762
02:18:29,519 --> 02:18:31,599
all the striping in the parking lot. So

3763
02:18:31,599 --> 02:18:33,359
there's no impacts to the existing

3764
02:18:33,359 --> 02:18:36,080
parking layout or drives or circulation.

3765
02:18:36,080 --> 02:18:37,599
And all we're really doing is providing

3766
02:18:37,599 --> 02:18:39,280
some space to be able to relocate the

3767
02:18:39,280 --> 02:18:41,599
new sign or sorry relocate the existing

3768
02:18:41,599 --> 02:18:43,439
sign and to place the pole for the new

3769
02:18:43,439 --> 02:18:43,840
sign.

3770
02:18:43,840 --> 02:18:45,439
>> And when you say relocate the existing,

3771
02:18:45,439 --> 02:18:46,559
as you're going to get in through

3772
02:18:46,559 --> 02:18:48,559
testimony, we're not just relocating the

3773
02:18:48,559 --> 02:18:50,319
existing, we're actually reducing it in

3774
02:18:50,319 --> 02:18:51,439
height significantly.

3775
02:18:51,439 --> 02:18:52,399
>> That's correct. Okay.

3776
02:18:52,399 --> 02:18:55,040
>> And that brings me to my next exhibit.

3777
02:18:55,040 --> 02:18:58,240
This is sign detail comparison exhibit

3778
02:18:58,240 --> 02:18:59,439
sheet one of one

3779
02:18:59,439 --> 02:19:01,120
>> and this is the horizontal one. So

3780
02:19:01,120 --> 02:19:02,399
that's A8 Kevin.

3781
02:19:02,399 --> 02:19:05,679
>> That's correct. Thank you.

3782
02:19:05,679 --> 02:19:10,080
And this is dated September 1st, 2026.

3783
02:19:10,080 --> 02:19:13,110
Um,

3784
02:19:13,120 --> 02:19:15,120
I'm embarrassed to say that I'm the

3785
02:19:15,120 --> 02:19:17,120
reason we have to have this exhibit.

3786
02:19:17,120 --> 02:19:18,719
When we submitted the plans to the

3787
02:19:18,719 --> 02:19:21,920
board, um, we misrepresented the

3788
02:19:21,920 --> 02:19:24,880
location of the existing circus sign in

3789
02:19:24,880 --> 02:19:26,880
the detail at the bottom left corner of

3790
02:19:26,880 --> 02:19:28,880
the site of of the site plan set.

3791
02:19:28,880 --> 02:19:31,359
>> Explain to the board what each box is.

3792
02:19:31,359 --> 02:19:34,719
So on the left side is the submitted

3793
02:19:34,719 --> 02:19:36,960
version. So that's going to match what

3794
02:19:36,960 --> 02:19:39,760
you have on the plan set in in in your

3795
02:19:39,760 --> 02:19:42,399
um in your packets. And on the right is

3796
02:19:42,399 --> 02:19:44,479
the reason we prepared this exhibit. And

3797
02:19:44,479 --> 02:19:46,800
the reason is you'll see on the left

3798
02:19:46,800 --> 02:19:49,920
hand side the existing circus sign which

3799
02:19:49,920 --> 02:19:52,080
is grayed back in color and higher than

3800
02:19:52,080 --> 02:19:55,680
the proposed one is shown further into

3801
02:19:55,680 --> 02:19:58,640
the site. Okay. And that's actually the

3802
02:19:58,640 --> 02:20:01,760
opposite of reality. The reality is on

3803
02:20:01,760 --> 02:20:04,960
the right hand side of this sheet that

3804
02:20:04,960 --> 02:20:08,240
the circus um wine and liquors or wine

3805
02:20:08,240 --> 02:20:09,840
and beer and spirits sign is actually

3806
02:20:09,840 --> 02:20:11,600
closer to the left which is where Newman

3807
02:20:11,600 --> 02:20:13,680
Springs Road is and where our property

3808
02:20:13,680 --> 02:20:15,439
frontage is measured front yard set back

3809
02:20:15,439 --> 02:20:17,520
from. And part of the reason for this

3810
02:20:17,520 --> 02:20:19,040
exhibit

3811
02:20:19,040 --> 02:20:21,600
now corrected is that I think it was the

3812
02:20:21,600 --> 02:20:24,080
board planner had questioned where is

3813
02:20:24,080 --> 02:20:27,520
the new circus wine sign and where is

3814
02:20:27,520 --> 02:20:30,479
the billboard sign going in relation not

3815
02:20:30,479 --> 02:20:34,000
only in location to the existing circus

3816
02:20:34,000 --> 02:20:36,000
sign but in size and height and and

3817
02:20:36,000 --> 02:20:38,080
everything else. So the intent of this

3818
02:20:38,080 --> 02:20:40,160
exhibit is to show that the taller

3819
02:20:40,160 --> 02:20:42,160
circus sign is actually going away and

3820
02:20:42,160 --> 02:20:43,920
being replaced with that much smaller

3821
02:20:43,920 --> 02:20:44,479
one.

3822
02:20:44,479 --> 02:20:46,960
>> That's correct. Okay.

3823
02:20:46,960 --> 02:20:50,399
And both the circus sign, the face of

3824
02:20:50,399 --> 02:20:52,960
the new circus sign and the edge of the

3825
02:20:52,960 --> 02:20:54,960
face of the billboard are going to be

3826
02:20:54,960 --> 02:20:59,040
set back. How far? Uh, in numbers?

3827
02:20:59,040 --> 02:21:00,560
>> I I'll start with the existing. So, the

3828
02:21:00,560 --> 02:21:04,399
existing circus sign is about 11.4t

3829
02:21:04,399 --> 02:21:07,840
from the rightway. That's our setback.

3830
02:21:07,840 --> 02:21:11,920
and we'll be um reconstructing that sign

3831
02:21:11,920 --> 02:21:14,160
further into the site to increase the

3832
02:21:14,160 --> 02:21:16,800
setback to 15 feet

3833
02:21:16,800 --> 02:21:19,040
and the sign will be much lower than it

3834
02:21:19,040 --> 02:21:21,680
is right now. Right now it's 33.4 ft

3835
02:21:21,680 --> 02:21:24,560
tall and we'll be lowering it to 20 ft

3836
02:21:24,560 --> 02:21:24,960
tall.

3837
02:21:24,960 --> 02:21:26,800
>> And I think importantly, Dan, typically

3838
02:21:26,800 --> 02:21:28,399
when this board or the planning board

3839
02:21:28,399 --> 02:21:30,560
sees site plans, you're measuring the

3840
02:21:30,560 --> 02:21:32,560
sign distance to the base of the sign.

3841
02:21:32,560 --> 02:21:34,479
Where's the pole going to be? But these

3842
02:21:34,479 --> 02:21:36,080
numbers are not where the pole is going

3843
02:21:36,080 --> 02:21:37,680
to be. the pole's going to be in much

3844
02:21:37,680 --> 02:21:39,760
further because of the type of the sign

3845
02:21:39,760 --> 02:21:41,840
and and the direction in which it will

3846
02:21:41,840 --> 02:21:43,920
address the street. We're actually

3847
02:21:43,920 --> 02:21:45,760
measuring the setback to the edge of the

3848
02:21:45,760 --> 02:21:47,200
face of the sign.

3849
02:21:47,200 --> 02:21:48,800
>> That's correct. That's correct. It's a

3850
02:21:48,800 --> 02:21:51,359
10x10 sign. It's the same sign face in

3851
02:21:51,359 --> 02:21:52,800
existing conditions that we're going to

3852
02:21:52,800 --> 02:21:54,720
be proposing. So, there's no change in

3853
02:21:54,720 --> 02:21:56,880
the dimensions of the sign or or the

3854
02:21:56,880 --> 02:21:59,439
nature of the size of that panel. Um the

3855
02:21:59,439 --> 02:22:00,960
existing sign you'll see on this

3856
02:22:00,960 --> 02:22:03,200
exhibit, uh again, keep looking at the

3857
02:22:03,200 --> 02:22:06,479
right hand side. um is has four columns

3858
02:22:06,479 --> 02:22:09,520
on it and some cross bracing. Um all of

3859
02:22:09,520 --> 02:22:11,359
that is going to be removed. We're going

3860
02:22:11,359 --> 02:22:13,040
to have a monopol that holds the sign.

3861
02:22:13,040 --> 02:22:14,560
So it'll be more of a traditional and

3862
02:22:14,560 --> 02:22:16,479
less structural kind of look to that

3863
02:22:16,479 --> 02:22:19,760
sign. Um and then as you can see um

3864
02:22:19,760 --> 02:22:22,880
above the sign um we have the proposed

3865
02:22:22,880 --> 02:22:25,840
billboard, the left hand side of the new

3866
02:22:25,840 --> 02:22:28,080
sign and the left hand side of the

3867
02:22:28,080 --> 02:22:30,240
billboard lineup. They both have the

3868
02:22:30,240 --> 02:22:32,640
same setback of 15 ft from the right

3869
02:22:32,640 --> 02:22:35,040
from Newman Springs Road. rightway. The

3870
02:22:35,040 --> 02:22:38,960
proposed sign is um uh 43.5

3871
02:22:38,960 --> 02:22:41,280
ft tall. 436 in

3872
02:22:41,280 --> 02:22:42,960
>> 43.5 ft tall.

3873
02:22:42,960 --> 02:22:45,439
>> That's correct.

3874
02:22:45,439 --> 02:22:48,240
>> And um the dimensions are are appro I'll

3875
02:22:48,240 --> 02:22:49,439
give you approximate dimensions. There's

3876
02:22:49,439 --> 02:22:52,240
very exact numbers on here um that match

3877
02:22:52,240 --> 02:22:55,439
the um outfronts exact numbers, but it's

3878
02:22:55,439 --> 02:23:00,720
about 10 1/2 ft by 36 and 2 1/2 ft. And

3879
02:23:00,720 --> 02:23:02,319
I I'll read that out just for the record

3880
02:23:02,319 --> 02:23:08,640
real quick. So, it's 10 ft 5 and 6364

3881
02:23:08,640 --> 02:23:11,920
in high.

3882
02:23:11,920 --> 02:23:17,600
And the panel is in width 36 ft 2 and

3883
02:23:17,600 --> 02:23:19,680
4164s

3884
02:23:19,680 --> 02:23:24,240
of an inch wide. Um, again, roughly 106

3885
02:23:24,240 --> 02:23:27,040
x 36 is kind of the way uh outfront

3886
02:23:27,040 --> 02:23:31,439
refers to this panel. Um,

3887
02:23:31,439 --> 02:23:34,720
the total panel area is 380 square uh

3888
02:23:34,720 --> 02:23:36,960
square feet. 380.26

3889
02:23:36,960 --> 02:23:38,720
square feet. Um,

3890
02:23:38,720 --> 02:23:40,560
>> I'm sorry. 38

3891
02:23:40,560 --> 02:23:44,479
>> 26 square feet.

3892
02:23:44,479 --> 02:23:51,990
>> That's a total panel area for each side.

3893
02:23:52,000 --> 02:23:54,240
And just I know it's on the site plan

3894
02:23:54,240 --> 02:23:56,960
and not on this exhibit, but the when we

3895
02:23:56,960 --> 02:23:59,520
talk about the the double-sided and in

3896
02:23:59,520 --> 02:24:02,319
reference to Mr. Light's question,

3897
02:24:02,319 --> 02:24:04,640
the signs are at each at an angle. It's

3898
02:24:04,640 --> 02:24:07,280
a V. So, it's not back to back with each

3899
02:24:07,280 --> 02:24:09,920
other. It's it's the spread V, so it's

3900
02:24:09,920 --> 02:24:13,990
not directly perpendicular

3901
02:24:14,000 --> 02:24:15,600
to the road. Correct.

3902
02:24:15,600 --> 02:24:16,960
>> That's correct. That's correct. It's

3903
02:24:16,960 --> 02:24:20,080
angled slightly to face face the roadway

3904
02:24:20,080 --> 02:24:22,479
oncoming and traffic from both east and

3905
02:24:22,479 --> 02:24:26,240
west. Um I just mentioned there's not

3906
02:24:26,240 --> 02:24:27,920
many site improvements here. I just

3907
02:24:27,920 --> 02:24:28,960
wanted to mention we will have

3908
02:24:28,960 --> 02:24:31,120
electrical service to both separate

3909
02:24:31,120 --> 02:24:33,359
electric service to both the new sign

3910
02:24:33,359 --> 02:24:36,319
and the relocated existing sign. Um

3911
02:24:36,319 --> 02:24:39,439
there's space um on that concrete island

3912
02:24:39,439 --> 02:24:41,040
to allow for any kind of transformer

3913
02:24:41,040 --> 02:24:42,319
that might be required. I would doubt

3914
02:24:42,319 --> 02:24:43,359
that there's going to be a specific

3915
02:24:43,359 --> 02:24:45,520
transformer pad mounted that would be

3916
02:24:45,520 --> 02:24:47,040
necessary, but in any event, there's

3917
02:24:47,040 --> 02:24:49,200
room in that landscape island for it.

3918
02:24:49,200 --> 02:24:51,439
Um, and all of the services will be

3919
02:24:51,439 --> 02:24:54,560
below ground.

3920
02:24:54,560 --> 02:24:56,640
>> Do you use a hardwired internet

3921
02:24:56,640 --> 02:24:58,560
connection for the camera and the

3922
02:24:58,560 --> 02:25:00,160
display?

3923
02:25:00,160 --> 02:25:00,880
>> I would have to

3924
02:25:00,880 --> 02:25:01,600
>> That's a great question.

3925
02:25:01,600 --> 02:25:10,230
>> That is a really good question.

3926
02:25:10,240 --> 02:25:12,160
» Yeah, wire. It's what?

3927
02:25:12,160 --> 02:25:17,429
>> Wireless.

3928
02:25:17,439 --> 02:25:19,920
» Your I'm sorry. Is now a good time to

3929
02:25:19,920 --> 02:25:21,200
ask about the Vshape or should I hold

3930
02:25:21,200 --> 02:25:21,520
that?

3931
02:25:21,520 --> 02:25:23,040
>> Um I'll get I'll get there. So you can

3932
02:25:23,040 --> 02:25:23,840
hold off.

3933
02:25:23,840 --> 02:25:26,240
>> So um I just want to talk really quickly

3934
02:25:26,240 --> 02:25:27,600
about the modules. You you probably

3935
02:25:27,600 --> 02:25:33,520
heard a little bit about this um from Mr. Arve. Um the the sign panel is

3936
02:25:33,520 --> 02:25:36,960
made up of uh modules that together make

3937
02:25:36,960 --> 02:25:39,920
up all of the the full sign. Um, and

3938
02:25:39,920 --> 02:25:43,760
each one has numerous LED elements in

3939
02:25:43,760 --> 02:25:45,920
it, light elements, like you know, you

3940
02:25:45,920 --> 02:25:48,479
would see on your oldfashioned TVs. Your

3941
02:25:48,479 --> 02:25:49,920
old fashioned color TVs, if you went

3942
02:25:49,920 --> 02:25:51,200
really close, you could see the little

3943
02:25:51,200 --> 02:25:52,640
elements. So, it's kind of similar to

3944
02:25:52,640 --> 02:25:55,920
that where each one combines. They put

3945
02:25:55,920 --> 02:25:58,880
out different colors, red, uh, uh, red,

3946
02:25:58,880 --> 02:26:01,439
blue, green, uh, to to represent

3947
02:26:01,439 --> 02:26:03,040
combinations that give you that shape,

3948
02:26:03,040 --> 02:26:05,120
just like on a television set back then.

3949
02:26:05,120 --> 02:26:06,720
Um, the modules themselves are

3950
02:26:06,720 --> 02:26:08,640
replaceable. out. Sometimes, you know,

3951
02:26:08,640 --> 02:26:11,280
there might be a a prop one placed

3952
02:26:11,280 --> 02:26:13,840
without the whole screen coming out. Um,

3953
02:26:13,840 --> 02:26:18,160
in the rows of the LEDs, there's louvers

3954
02:26:18,160 --> 02:26:21,680
on the tops of the LED elements. And

3955
02:26:21,680 --> 02:26:23,840
what that does is it reduces the sky

3956
02:26:23,840 --> 02:26:26,399
glow that would come from the LEDs. It's

3957
02:26:26,399 --> 02:26:29,280
like a on a hat for reverse for a visor

3958
02:26:29,280 --> 02:26:32,240
on a hat to keep the rays or the the

3959
02:26:32,240 --> 02:26:34,720
light from going up and and going into

3960
02:26:34,720 --> 02:26:36,960
the sky. That's something that's a dark

3961
02:26:36,960 --> 02:26:39,680
sky you know benefit um that's always in

3962
02:26:39,680 --> 02:26:42,240
there on all these in this in addition

3963
02:26:42,240 --> 02:26:46,240
we have narrow view technology on this

3964
02:26:46,240 --> 02:26:48,399
the

3965
02:26:48,399 --> 02:26:51,280
have kind of like blinders on a horse um

3966
02:26:51,280 --> 02:26:54,479
to keep the conision of light spreading

3967
02:26:54,479 --> 02:26:58,479
from the panel confined um this one is

3968
02:26:58,479 --> 02:27:01,920
um I believe the 25 degree narrow view

3969
02:27:01,920 --> 02:27:04,319
the one we g we showed in previous

3970
02:27:04,319 --> 02:27:06,319
application was a 30°ree. They've now

3971
02:27:06,319 --> 02:27:08,560
developed a 25 degree which we're using.

3972
02:27:08,560 --> 02:27:10,479
Um, and you'll see that in in the next

3973
02:27:10,479 --> 02:27:12,800
exhibit. I'll talk more about that as

3974
02:27:12,800 --> 02:27:19,910
well as the shape.

3975
02:27:19,920 --> 02:27:22,880
So, this exhibit is lighting plan and

3976
02:27:22,880 --> 02:27:25,600
sign view angle exhibit

3977
02:27:25,600 --> 02:27:30,080
>> and that one is A10

3978
02:27:30,080 --> 02:27:33,200
>> sheet one of one dated September 1st,

3979
02:27:33,200 --> 02:27:38,230
2026.

3980
02:27:38,240 --> 02:27:40,399
Now, this this exhibit has been has a

3981
02:27:40,399 --> 02:27:42,000
lot of data on it. You'll see in front

3982
02:27:42,000 --> 02:27:43,359
of you there's a lot of numbers. You can

3983
02:27:43,359 --> 02:27:44,720
ignore the numbers right now in the

3984
02:27:44,720 --> 02:27:47,520
grid. Um,

3985
02:27:47,520 --> 02:27:49,600
basically what this is showing is how

3986
02:27:49,600 --> 02:27:52,160
the light is projected from each of the

3987
02:27:52,160 --> 02:27:54,640
panels. We're oriented the same where

3988
02:27:54,640 --> 02:27:57,280
we've got east to our right and west to

3989
02:27:57,280 --> 02:28:00,800
our left. And you could see that the the

3990
02:28:00,800 --> 02:28:03,200
cone of of of light as it's being thrown

3991
02:28:03,200 --> 02:28:06,000
from the panels is angled slightly and

3992
02:28:06,000 --> 02:28:08,160
that's and that's a result of that

3993
02:28:08,160 --> 02:28:11,280
Vshape. So it's it's a shallow V. It's

3994
02:28:11,280 --> 02:28:12,960
not a you know it's not a deep wide open

3995
02:28:12,960 --> 02:28:15,439
V. It's it's very shallow. Um there's

3996
02:28:15,439 --> 02:28:17,040
only a slight difference. It's very

3997
02:28:17,040 --> 02:28:19,200
typical for what you see on a road where

3998
02:28:19,200 --> 02:28:21,280
there's not a curve where you're trying

3999
02:28:21,280 --> 02:28:24,000
to advertise to a direction that's then

4000
02:28:24,000 --> 02:28:25,600
turning and then another direction and

4001
02:28:25,600 --> 02:28:30,800
then that V flattens out. Yeah, that V is actual the visibility of the

4002
02:28:30,800 --> 02:28:32,399
sign.

4003
02:28:32,399 --> 02:28:34,160
>> No, well, I'm talking about the V of the

4004
02:28:34,160 --> 02:28:36,640
sign itself. Right. Right.

4005
02:28:36,640 --> 02:28:39,359
>> And and and the cones the cones kind of

4006
02:28:39,359 --> 02:28:41,040
are are showing you that the way they're

4007
02:28:41,040 --> 02:28:43,200
not perfectly symmetrical and lined up

4008
02:28:43,200 --> 02:28:44,399
and they're aimed towards the road.

4009
02:28:44,399 --> 02:28:46,000
That's a result of that V. And if you

4010
02:28:46,000 --> 02:28:47,600
look in closely, you can see the actual

4011
02:28:47,600 --> 02:28:49,439
line work of the structure of the V. So,

4012
02:28:49,439 --> 02:28:50,960
I'm not sure if that answered your V

4013
02:28:50,960 --> 02:28:52,399
question. You can hit me with with your

4014
02:28:52,399 --> 02:28:53,840
question now if you

4015
02:28:53,840 --> 02:28:57,040
>> Sure. Yeah. Mine was more uh procedural,

4016
02:28:57,040 --> 02:29:00,080
I guess you'd say, because we have a

4017
02:29:00,080 --> 02:29:03,040
part of our ordinance for signs does not

4018
02:29:03,040 --> 02:29:06,080
allow for um a Vshape, right? Says the

4019
02:29:06,080 --> 02:29:07,840
signs if it has two faces, they have to

4020
02:29:07,840 --> 02:29:10,240
be parallel. And so I just want I guess

4021
02:29:10,240 --> 02:29:11,600
maybe not a question for you, maybe for

4022
02:29:11,600 --> 02:29:14,399
a town engineer. Are are we uh seeking a

4023
02:29:14,399 --> 02:29:17,200
bulk variance for this tonight?

4024
02:29:17,200 --> 02:29:22,389
Okay.

4025
02:29:22,399 --> 02:29:25,760
Um I don't not the they're seeking bulk

4026
02:29:25,760 --> 02:29:29,760
variances but not for the V that you're

4027
02:29:29,760 --> 02:29:30,319
talking about

4028
02:29:30,319 --> 02:29:32,160
>> because those sign ordinances are made

4029
02:29:32,160 --> 02:29:35,120
for the commercial signs that advertise

4030
02:29:35,120 --> 02:29:36,399
for the business. There are no

4031
02:29:36,399 --> 02:29:39,680
regulations that apply to billboards as

4032
02:29:39,680 --> 02:29:43,280
a principal use. So

4033
02:29:43,280 --> 02:29:47,600
again, as it relates to requirements for

4034
02:29:47,600 --> 02:29:49,439
use that isn't permitted under price

4035
02:29:49,439 --> 02:29:52,950
behards

4036
02:29:52,960 --> 02:29:55,680
were not uh intended to regulate it

4037
02:29:55,680 --> 02:29:57,359
because it's not a permitted use. So

4038
02:29:57,359 --> 02:30:01,040
they are subsumed within the uh variance

4039
02:30:01,040 --> 02:30:05,280
the use variance if it was granted.

4040
02:30:05,280 --> 02:30:08,319
If they're subsumed, then do we I why do

4041
02:30:08,319 --> 02:30:10,560
we have any bulk variances on that we're

4042
02:30:10,560 --> 02:30:14,070
considering tonight?

4043
02:30:14,080 --> 02:30:16,479
» Because I believe that the variances

4044
02:30:16,479 --> 02:30:19,760
that we're seeking are relative to at

4045
02:30:19,760 --> 02:30:21,840
least the lighting on is relative to

4046
02:30:21,840 --> 02:30:23,840
general lighting standards, not just

4047
02:30:23,840 --> 02:30:26,640
signage. But again, out of an abundance

4048
02:30:26,640 --> 02:30:28,720
of caution, because I know Kevin, we

4049
02:30:28,720 --> 02:30:30,720
notice for them, but from a legal

4050
02:30:30,720 --> 02:30:32,880
perspective and I think you'd agree that

4051
02:30:32,880 --> 02:30:35,280
technically they are subsumed within the

4052
02:30:35,280 --> 02:30:37,040
variance because the sign regulations

4053
02:30:37,040 --> 02:30:38,880
were never intended to regulate

4054
02:30:38,880 --> 02:30:40,640
billboards since billboards aren't

4055
02:30:40,640 --> 02:30:41,040
permitted.

4056
02:30:41,040 --> 02:30:43,520
>> Yeah. I mean, so let's just say we're

4057
02:30:43,520 --> 02:30:46,960
talking about a veterary.

4058
02:30:46,960 --> 02:30:48,240
So let's just say we were talking about

4059
02:30:48,240 --> 02:30:50,560
a veterary use and our ordinance would

4060
02:30:50,560 --> 02:30:52,399
say if you're going to have a veterary

4061
02:30:52,399 --> 02:30:55,280
use you have to have a setback of X uh

4062
02:30:55,280 --> 02:30:57,760
and and so because the billboards are

4063
02:30:57,760 --> 02:30:59,439
not permitted we don't have the bulk

4064
02:30:59,439 --> 02:31:01,760
regulation so it is I mean it's still a

4065
02:31:01,760 --> 02:31:02,960
high standard because they have to

4066
02:31:02,960 --> 02:31:06,640
satisfy the use variance but they are

4067
02:31:06,640 --> 02:31:09,760
typically subsumed into the whole

4068
02:31:09,760 --> 02:31:11,600
overall application because there are no

4069
02:31:11,600 --> 02:31:13,680
specifically permitted requirements for

4070
02:31:13,680 --> 02:31:15,680
a billboard because billboards are not

4071
02:31:15,680 --> 02:31:17,920
permitted And similarly, the way that

4072
02:31:17,920 --> 02:31:20,240
we're considered a principal use as

4073
02:31:20,240 --> 02:31:21,760
opposed to an accessory use, we were

4074
02:31:21,760 --> 02:31:23,280
held to the standards of principal

4075
02:31:23,280 --> 02:31:25,200
structure. So there's all kinds of

4076
02:31:25,200 --> 02:31:28,880
different mixed regulations. Um, but

4077
02:31:28,880 --> 02:31:31,200
again to quote Kevin, out of an

4078
02:31:31,200 --> 02:31:33,280
abundance of caution, should the board

4079
02:31:33,280 --> 02:31:34,960
want to dot every eye and cross every

4080
02:31:34,960 --> 02:31:38,160
tea should they approve this,

4081
02:31:38,160 --> 02:31:40,000
certainly you could say that you could

4082
02:31:40,000 --> 02:31:41,600
call out and recognize that it doesn't

4083
02:31:41,600 --> 02:31:44,000
conform to that sign requirement even

4084
02:31:44,000 --> 02:31:45,840
though not designed for this type of

4085
02:31:45,840 --> 02:31:49,670
sign.

4086
02:31:49,680 --> 02:31:55,190
» Okay, I think I understand.

4087
02:31:55,200 --> 02:31:57,840
Okay. So, um just referring back to the

4088
02:31:57,840 --> 02:32:01,760
exhibit, um what we've plotted on here

4089
02:32:01,760 --> 02:32:05,439
um are the design light levels in that

4090
02:32:05,439 --> 02:32:07,600
grid. Those are the small numbers that

4091
02:32:07,600 --> 02:32:09,920
appear throughout the sheet. And we've

4092
02:32:09,920 --> 02:32:14,160
provided um isolux um lines which are

4093
02:32:14,160 --> 02:32:15,920
basically like contour lines but for

4094
02:32:15,920 --> 02:32:18,000
lighting levels. So where you would have

4095
02:32:18,000 --> 02:32:19,840
contour lines on a grading plan to

4096
02:32:19,840 --> 02:32:22,800
represent elevations, we have isol lines

4097
02:32:22,800 --> 02:32:25,680
on our plan to represent the light, the

4098
02:32:25,680 --> 02:32:29,040
level of light. Um

4099
02:32:29,040 --> 02:32:31,520
I I forget if this was under Mr. Arve's

4100
02:32:31,520 --> 02:32:35,120
testimony. So the way the sign functions

4101
02:32:35,120 --> 02:32:39,520
is that it senses the ambient uh light

4102
02:32:39,520 --> 02:32:41,120
whether it's the middle of the day or

4103
02:32:41,120 --> 02:32:43,359
the middle of the night. um and it

4104
02:32:43,359 --> 02:32:45,439
adjusts the brightness of the sign

4105
02:32:45,439 --> 02:32:47,920
accordingly. During the day when you

4106
02:32:47,920 --> 02:32:50,560
have very bright conditions, sun's

4107
02:32:50,560 --> 02:32:53,760
shining, um the sign will be at its

4108
02:32:53,760 --> 02:32:56,800
brightest uh to compete with the

4109
02:32:56,800 --> 02:32:59,840
surrounding elements. I like to I

4110
02:32:59,840 --> 02:33:02,080
usually see those signs when I do see

4111
02:33:02,080 --> 02:33:04,080
them during the day. They it's hard

4112
02:33:04,080 --> 02:33:05,359
sometimes it's hard to even tell that

4113
02:33:05,359 --> 02:33:08,160
they're LED because they're appearing

4114
02:33:08,160 --> 02:33:10,080
like a surface because they're

4115
02:33:10,080 --> 02:33:12,560
appropriately lit like a surface would

4116
02:33:12,560 --> 02:33:15,040
be lit by the sunlight. Um and that's

4117
02:33:15,040 --> 02:33:16,880
the way they kind of manage those

4118
02:33:16,880 --> 02:33:20,000
levels. um if the if it's a more cloudy

4119
02:33:20,000 --> 02:33:22,240
day that that's it's going to dim

4120
02:33:22,240 --> 02:33:25,600
appropriately because the the owner out

4121
02:33:25,600 --> 02:33:28,080
front does not want the sign to be too

4122
02:33:28,080 --> 02:33:31,359
bright for the viewer. They want it your

4123
02:33:31,359 --> 02:33:34,000
the the sign to be visible with the way

4124
02:33:34,000 --> 02:33:35,680
your iris would adjust for the

4125
02:33:35,680 --> 02:33:37,760
surrounding light. And then the same as

4126
02:33:37,760 --> 02:33:40,000
your the dashboard in your car, when you

4127
02:33:40,000 --> 02:33:41,600
get on the car in the car during the

4128
02:33:41,600 --> 02:33:43,520
day, you might not even realize it. the

4129
02:33:43,520 --> 02:33:45,920
dashboard's at its brightest and then

4130
02:33:45,920 --> 02:33:48,720
when uh the sun goes down, my car has a

4131
02:33:48,720 --> 02:33:50,240
little sensor on the dashboard. All of a

4132
02:33:50,240 --> 02:33:51,600
sudden, it goes to dim because it

4133
02:33:51,600 --> 02:33:53,760
recognizes it's night and and it's not

4134
02:33:53,760 --> 02:33:55,439
trying to compete and blow your blow

4135
02:33:55,439 --> 02:33:57,359
your eyes out with brightness.

4136
02:33:57,359 --> 02:34:00,399
>> Um could you very similar

4137
02:34:00,399 --> 02:34:02,240
>> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I I don't mean to

4138
02:34:02,240 --> 02:34:03,840
interrupt, but sometimes we move on and

4139
02:34:03,840 --> 02:34:05,840
then I forget my question. So, you were

4140
02:34:05,840 --> 02:34:07,359
just talking about that you said at its

4141
02:34:07,359 --> 02:34:08,720
brightest and so I was asking could you

4142
02:34:08,720 --> 02:34:09,920
quantify that range? What's the

4143
02:34:09,920 --> 02:34:12,240
brightest and what is it um down to? But

4144
02:34:12,240 --> 02:34:14,240
what it what it does I'll I'll have more

4145
02:34:14,240 --> 02:34:15,200
on

4146
02:34:15,200 --> 02:34:17,520
>> that particular in a in a few minutes

4147
02:34:17,520 --> 02:34:19,120
>> few minutes but um

4148
02:34:19,120 --> 02:34:20,479
>> that's we're going to get to the

4149
02:34:20,479 --> 02:34:22,160
luminance and the hits and that's where

4150
02:34:22,160 --> 02:34:24,720
that's more appropriate. So, because

4151
02:34:24,720 --> 02:34:29,920
we're um measuring the ambient light,

4152
02:34:29,920 --> 02:34:32,640
measuring how much light is hitting a

4153
02:34:32,640 --> 02:34:35,520
sensor that's on the sign from the sky,

4154
02:34:35,520 --> 02:34:38,240
from from surrounding lights, if you're

4155
02:34:38,240 --> 02:34:40,560
in a situation where you've got a a low

4156
02:34:40,560 --> 02:34:42,640
sign, other lights might be lighting

4157
02:34:42,640 --> 02:34:44,720
that at night. Um,

4158
02:34:44,720 --> 02:34:47,439
>> does each side of the sign have its own

4159
02:34:47,439 --> 02:34:50,560
ambient sensor?

4160
02:34:50,560 --> 02:34:53,760
Is there mult?

4161
02:34:53,760 --> 02:34:56,000
>> No, there's just one for both sides.

4162
02:34:56,000 --> 02:35:00,240
>> So, if the sun is setting in the west

4163
02:35:00,240 --> 02:35:03,280
and hitting the billboard on the west

4164
02:35:03,280 --> 02:35:09,280
side, it will make the light brighter.

4165
02:35:09,280 --> 02:35:11,760
So, if you're driving west and you're

4166
02:35:11,760 --> 02:35:14,960
seeing the east sign, that's going to be

4167
02:35:14,960 --> 02:35:18,080
>> well, well, it's the sensor faces up, so

4168
02:35:18,080 --> 02:35:20,720
it's it's not going to read like a like

4169
02:35:20,720 --> 02:35:22,720
a spotlight hitting it and then changing

4170
02:35:22,720 --> 02:35:24,479
the brightness on the sign. It's going

4171
02:35:24,479 --> 02:35:28,000
to measure the ambient light coming down

4172
02:35:28,000 --> 02:35:29,760
that you would read on a surface.

4173
02:35:29,760 --> 02:35:32,160
>> Okay. So, as the sun as the sun moves

4174
02:35:32,160 --> 02:35:35,920
east to west and this sign faces east

4175
02:35:35,920 --> 02:35:36,800
and west,

4176
02:35:36,800 --> 02:35:37,760
>> correct?

4177
02:35:37,760 --> 02:35:40,880
um one side is going to be appear darker

4178
02:35:40,880 --> 02:35:41,840
than the other.

4179
02:35:41,840 --> 02:35:44,160
>> Yeah. So, so if you were in a sunset

4180
02:35:44,160 --> 02:35:47,040
scenario, okay, the the levels are going

4181
02:35:47,040 --> 02:35:50,240
to be coming down. All right. Um but

4182
02:35:50,240 --> 02:35:51,920
>> Yeah. Or the sunrise scenario,

4183
02:35:51,920 --> 02:35:54,160
>> right? And and and there might be during

4184
02:35:54,160 --> 02:35:56,399
that, you know, small amount of time,

4185
02:35:56,399 --> 02:35:58,399
there might be although the signs are

4186
02:35:58,399 --> 02:36:01,120
lit the same, the backlighting will be

4187
02:36:01,120 --> 02:36:02,479
different because one side's the east

4188
02:36:02,479 --> 02:36:03,600
and one side's the west and that's

4189
02:36:03,600 --> 02:36:06,319
sunset or sunrise. So we don't control

4190
02:36:06,319 --> 02:36:10,000
how that backlighting occurs or or or

4191
02:36:10,000 --> 02:36:11,600
gauge the sign that way. It's based upon

4192
02:36:11,600 --> 02:36:13,520
the ambient light that's available to a

4193
02:36:13,520 --> 02:36:17,520
sensor. Um so um and and the reason I

4194
02:36:17,520 --> 02:36:19,280
mention that is and and that's why we go

4195
02:36:19,280 --> 02:36:20,800
into foot candles. That's why measure by

4196
02:36:20,800 --> 02:36:23,840
foot candles. So what we do is we put

4197
02:36:23,840 --> 02:36:27,280
the R sign three foot candles higher

4198
02:36:27,280 --> 02:36:29,600
than the ambient light. And that that's

4199
02:36:29,600 --> 02:36:31,520
kind of the sweet spot to be able to

4200
02:36:31,520 --> 02:36:35,120
view the sign. Um, and the reason we use

4201
02:36:35,120 --> 02:36:36,880
foot candles is because that's what we

4202
02:36:36,880 --> 02:36:38,880
measure. So, we're measuring foot

4203
02:36:38,880 --> 02:36:41,760
candles in our sensor and then we adjust

4204
02:36:41,760 --> 02:36:43,920
the brightness of the sign for that foot

4205
02:36:43,920 --> 02:36:46,399
candle level. Um, and I'll have more

4206
02:36:46,399 --> 02:36:48,319
about that later. Um,

4207
02:36:48,319 --> 02:36:49,920
>> but essentially, and I just want to

4208
02:36:49,920 --> 02:36:52,000
clarify, the foot candles that you're

4209
02:36:52,000 --> 02:36:54,560
showing on this plan are going to be

4210
02:36:54,560 --> 02:36:58,080
consistent, meaning our sign is able to

4211
02:36:58,080 --> 02:37:00,479
adjust to ensure that we're never

4212
02:37:00,479 --> 02:37:02,160
exceeding the foot candles that you're

4213
02:37:02,160 --> 02:37:03,200
showing.

4214
02:37:03,200 --> 02:37:05,680
>> Right. Right. This this is and and this

4215
02:37:05,680 --> 02:37:08,080
is a kind of like a capture in time of

4216
02:37:08,080 --> 02:37:10,800
dark. Okay. And these numbers are we're

4217
02:37:10,800 --> 02:37:13,359
capturing the.3

4218
02:37:13,359 --> 02:37:16,160
and and the relative numbers associated

4219
02:37:16,160 --> 02:37:19,040
with that. Um and and for that reason

4220
02:37:19,040 --> 02:37:22,800
like our three isolux line is this one

4221
02:37:22,800 --> 02:37:25,359
out here. It's the it's the kind of the

4222
02:37:25,359 --> 02:37:27,520
middle dashed line. The reason we use

4223
02:37:27,520 --> 02:37:29,680
that line is because it's the three

4224
02:37:29,680 --> 02:37:32,880
over. So that's kind of like it helps

4225
02:37:32,880 --> 02:37:35,920
describe one sign to another, one uh

4226
02:37:35,920 --> 02:37:38,240
parabola display to another another

4227
02:37:38,240 --> 02:37:40,080
display. If you get to the end of the

4228
02:37:40,080 --> 02:37:42,640
parabola, and if you guys knew how hard

4229
02:37:42,640 --> 02:37:44,319
of a time I had saying that over the

4230
02:37:44,319 --> 02:37:45,600
last six months, you've done very well

4231
02:37:45,600 --> 02:37:48,080
>> that I nailed it just now. When you get

4232
02:37:48,080 --> 02:37:50,720
to the end of that, it's zero.

4233
02:37:50,720 --> 02:37:51,359
>> That's correct.

4234
02:37:51,359 --> 02:37:54,560
>> So, if it's not within that parabola or

4235
02:37:54,560 --> 02:37:58,000
triangle on either side, then it is zero

4236
02:37:58,000 --> 02:38:00,319
foot candles coming from

4237
02:38:00,319 --> 02:38:02,240
>> that. That's correct. So, that mean you

4238
02:38:02,240 --> 02:38:02,880
can't see it.

4239
02:38:02,880 --> 02:38:05,840
>> Just to correct one thing, I misspoke.

4240
02:38:05,840 --> 02:38:07,840
It wasn't priced vimei, Kevin. So in

4241
02:38:07,840 --> 02:38:09,920
case you look it up for me, it's the

4242
02:38:09,920 --> 02:38:12,640
Paleo versus North Brunswick.

4243
02:38:12,640 --> 02:38:13,040
>> Thank you.

4244
02:38:13,040 --> 02:38:15,359
>> Price has to do with sight suitability.

4245
02:38:15,359 --> 02:38:18,319
Paleo has to do with subsuming the bulk

4246
02:38:18,319 --> 02:38:20,399
variances in the use. I apologize.

4247
02:38:20,399 --> 02:38:21,439
>> Got it.

4248
02:38:21,439 --> 02:38:23,280
>> So are you saying outside of the

4249
02:38:23,280 --> 02:38:25,200
furthest

4250
02:38:25,200 --> 02:38:28,720
um shape you won't see?

4251
02:38:28,720 --> 02:38:29,680
>> No, you'll see.

4252
02:38:29,680 --> 02:38:31,520
>> Okay. So So I'll have more on that. So

4253
02:38:31,520 --> 02:38:31,920
this is

4254
02:38:31,920 --> 02:38:33,280
>> Wait, let me just lay first and explain

4255
02:38:33,280 --> 02:38:35,200
it. Sure. When we're talking about foot

4256
02:38:35,200 --> 02:38:36,960
candles, we're talking about light

4257
02:38:36,960 --> 02:38:39,200
that's hitting the ground.

4258
02:38:39,200 --> 02:38:42,000
So part of your ordinance requires

4259
02:38:42,000 --> 02:38:44,479
certain foot candles based on lighting.

4260
02:38:44,479 --> 02:38:47,280
So what we're saying is in a vacuum,

4261
02:38:47,280 --> 02:38:50,319
this sign will never at when you get to

4262
02:38:50,319 --> 02:38:53,359
that edge, there'll be no light hitting

4263
02:38:53,359 --> 02:38:55,439
the ground from our sign. That's what we

4264
02:38:55,439 --> 02:38:56,720
mean. We're going to get to the

4265
02:38:56,720 --> 02:38:58,399
visibility and the knits and everything

4266
02:38:58,399 --> 02:39:00,960
else, but again, there's two metrics.

4267
02:39:00,960 --> 02:39:02,800
There's foot candles on the ground and

4268
02:39:02,800 --> 02:39:04,640
intensity of the light coming at the si

4269
02:39:04,640 --> 02:39:06,479
coming out of the sign at the face of

4270
02:39:06,479 --> 02:39:09,760
the sign. Those are the two standards.

4271
02:39:09,760 --> 02:39:11,680
We're only talking about one right now.

4272
02:39:11,680 --> 02:39:14,160
And and the fun part's going to be is

4273
02:39:14,160 --> 02:39:15,439
when we start talking about the

4274
02:39:15,439 --> 02:39:18,080
calculation for how nets convert to foot

4275
02:39:18,080 --> 02:39:20,000
candles. But we'll wait because it's,

4276
02:39:20,000 --> 02:39:20,560
you know,

4277
02:39:20,560 --> 02:39:22,720
>> and and just just a quick clarification,

4278
02:39:22,720 --> 02:39:26,080
it's over ambient. So the light will be

4279
02:39:26,080 --> 02:39:27,920
on. There'll still be light hitting the

4280
02:39:27,920 --> 02:39:29,920
ground, but that some of that's ambient

4281
02:39:29,920 --> 02:39:32,240
light. We're we're not projecting more

4282
02:39:32,240 --> 02:39:34,800
than the ambient light. So So there is a

4283
02:39:34,800 --> 02:39:36,880
project projection of light, but it's

4284
02:39:36,880 --> 02:39:38,399
just not beyond the ambient light.

4285
02:39:38,399 --> 02:39:40,000
>> Which is the same thing as saying in a

4286
02:39:40,000 --> 02:39:41,680
>> No. No. Yeah. If you're in a field

4287
02:39:41,680 --> 02:39:43,760
somewhere, the ambient light is zero. So

4288
02:39:43,760 --> 02:39:45,200
it's really the same thing.

4289
02:39:45,200 --> 02:39:47,920
>> Exactly. So what we did was we took

4290
02:39:47,920 --> 02:39:49,840
>> Wait. I'm sorry.

4291
02:39:49,840 --> 02:39:53,990
>> Yeah.

4292
02:39:54,000 --> 02:39:57,520
One of the bulk variances is

4293
02:39:57,520 --> 02:39:59,760
>> exceeding 1.5 at the property line.

4294
02:39:59,760 --> 02:40:01,840
>> Correct. And you are at

4295
02:40:01,840 --> 02:40:02,960
>> Okay, I'll I'll tell you right now.

4296
02:40:02,960 --> 02:40:03,840
>> Didn't get there yet.

4297
02:40:03,840 --> 02:40:05,439
>> Okay. All right. Because you're talking

4298
02:40:05,439 --> 02:40:09,760
about.3 foot candles over ambient light,

4299
02:40:09,760 --> 02:40:12,399
but you're really

4300
02:40:12,399 --> 02:40:14,640
at 10 seven, you know. So, can you

4301
02:40:14,640 --> 02:40:15,760
>> So, that that's exactly where I was

4302
02:40:15,760 --> 02:40:17,760
going to go next. So, again, we're using

4303
02:40:17,760 --> 02:40:19,439
foot candles. It might be kind of

4304
02:40:19,439 --> 02:40:20,720
familiar when you're talking about your

4305
02:40:20,720 --> 02:40:23,040
regular site plans and their lighting

4306
02:40:23,040 --> 02:40:25,680
designs and you're talking about, you

4307
02:40:25,680 --> 02:40:28,240
know, what's the what it's a question.

4308
02:40:28,240 --> 02:40:30,160
What's the light putting out and is it

4309
02:40:30,160 --> 02:40:32,240
adequately lighting a site? And it's a

4310
02:40:32,240 --> 02:40:34,080
set standard. There's not photo cells.

4311
02:40:34,080 --> 02:40:37,040
It's on or off, right? Um and again, a

4312
02:40:37,040 --> 02:40:39,680
reminder that's measuring the light that

4313
02:40:39,680 --> 02:40:42,399
hits the ground and reflects off and is

4314
02:40:42,399 --> 02:40:44,080
captured by a meter. That's how you

4315
02:40:44,080 --> 02:40:48,560
measure that. Okay. Um, it's not what

4316
02:40:48,560 --> 02:40:49,920
you look at a light. If you go

4317
02:40:49,920 --> 02:40:51,840
underneath any of those le those those

4318
02:40:51,840 --> 02:40:54,080
light fixtures and look straight up,

4319
02:40:54,080 --> 02:40:56,080
that that has nothing to do with the

4320
02:40:56,080 --> 02:40:58,000
brightness that's on the correct.

4321
02:40:58,000 --> 02:41:00,399
>> Um, so

4322
02:41:00,399 --> 02:41:02,960
um, for the ordinance requirement and a

4323
02:41:02,960 --> 02:41:05,120
half at the property line, what we're

4324
02:41:05,120 --> 02:41:08,800
projecting is what happens in the dark

4325
02:41:08,800 --> 02:41:10,800
at the lowest point of the day when

4326
02:41:10,800 --> 02:41:12,560
we're projecting.3

4327
02:41:12,560 --> 02:41:15,760
over ambient. We're showing where we're

4328
02:41:15,760 --> 02:41:19,359
1.5 over ambient.

4329
02:41:19,359 --> 02:41:22,399
So if it was completely dark, we're

4330
02:41:22,399 --> 02:41:24,319
showing you where we would be showing

4331
02:41:24,319 --> 02:41:25,680
1.5.

4332
02:41:25,680 --> 02:41:26,800
>> That makes sense.

4333
02:41:26,800 --> 02:41:29,680
>> Same Jackie as if if I'm trying to give

4334
02:41:29,680 --> 02:41:32,800
you a parking lot light. When you give

4335
02:41:32,800 --> 02:41:35,600
what the foot candles are, it's really

4336
02:41:35,600 --> 02:41:37,200
over ambient because it doesn't take

4337
02:41:37,200 --> 02:41:38,960
into consideration what other lights are

4338
02:41:38,960 --> 02:41:40,960
going to be there. So again,

4339
02:41:40,960 --> 02:41:42,560
>> correct. if there's spillage from

4340
02:41:42,560 --> 02:41:45,439
another site like like what

4341
02:41:45,439 --> 02:41:48,160
>> candles there but we're only giving a

4342
02:41:48,160 --> 02:41:49,680
certain amount to it.

4343
02:41:49,680 --> 02:41:51,680
>> So again I think it the way you're

4344
02:41:51,680 --> 02:41:53,760
describing it was confusing to me and I

4345
02:41:53,760 --> 02:41:56,080
think it's becoming confusing here.

4346
02:41:56,080 --> 02:41:59,520
>> The light sensor reading based on light

4347
02:41:59,520 --> 02:42:02,319
coming from our sign at the property

4348
02:42:02,319 --> 02:42:05,040
line is what? At the highest

4349
02:42:05,040 --> 02:42:06,000
>> at the highest point

4350
02:42:06,000 --> 02:42:07,920
>> at the at the property line

4351
02:42:07,920 --> 02:42:10,800
>> the variance. So it's it's at at its

4352
02:42:10,800 --> 02:42:18,630
highest it's

4353
02:42:18,640 --> 02:42:21,520
yeah 10.6 or 10.7.

4354
02:42:21,520 --> 02:42:23,439
So and that's where I wanted to point

4355
02:42:23,439 --> 02:42:26,000
you to the lines that we added to the

4356
02:42:26,000 --> 02:42:29,439
drawing. We provided a 1.5 line. It's

4357
02:42:29,439 --> 02:42:32,800
the solid line that's um closest the

4358
02:42:32,800 --> 02:42:34,319
solid line that's closest to the sign

4359
02:42:34,319 --> 02:42:36,800
panel. Not the the there's a dash line

4360
02:42:36,800 --> 02:42:40,399
in between the two. So, um, that I'm

4361
02:42:40,399 --> 02:42:43,359
sorry, sorry, it's the dash line closest

4362
02:42:43,359 --> 02:42:46,560
to the panel is the 1.5 line.

4363
02:42:46,560 --> 02:42:49,760
And you can see that area. It come it

4364
02:42:49,760 --> 02:42:51,600
comes out into Newman Springs Road,

4365
02:42:51,600 --> 02:42:53,520
comes back to the sign, goes back out

4366
02:42:53,520 --> 02:42:55,439
into Newman Springs Road, and then it

4367
02:42:55,439 --> 02:42:56,960
goes to our western property neighbor.

4368
02:42:56,960 --> 02:42:58,080
It's the parking lot for the car

4369
02:42:58,080 --> 02:43:00,560
dealership. So, those are the locations

4370
02:43:00,560 --> 02:43:03,520
where we're greater than the 1.5.

4371
02:43:03,520 --> 02:43:05,840
That's part of of the performance

4372
02:43:05,840 --> 02:43:08,479
standards. So, and as it relates to

4373
02:43:08,479 --> 02:43:10,880
exceeding the 1.5, it's not having an

4374
02:43:10,880 --> 02:43:13,680
impact on it's not having a negative

4375
02:43:13,680 --> 02:43:14,800
impact on the neighborhood because it's

4376
02:43:14,800 --> 02:43:17,200
either lighting a roadway

4377
02:43:17,200 --> 02:43:19,439
or it's lighting the parking lot.

4378
02:43:19,439 --> 02:43:22,399
>> Parking lot by their own security

4379
02:43:22,399 --> 02:43:24,560
lighting and stuff. Again, the

4380
02:43:24,560 --> 02:43:26,240
dealerships

4381
02:43:26,240 --> 02:43:28,560
that most of it

4382
02:43:28,560 --> 02:43:32,230
now,

4383
02:43:32,240 --> 02:43:34,960
» well, I would say

4384
02:43:34,960 --> 02:43:37,359
I not

4385
02:43:37,359 --> 02:43:39,280
But it would depend on whether there's

4386
02:43:39,280 --> 02:43:46,070
street lighting

4387
02:43:46,080 --> 02:43:48,160
and and Yeah. Well, and I'll add this

4388
02:43:48,160 --> 02:43:54,790
also. Our photo cells are

4389
02:43:54,800 --> 02:43:56,160
lower than those lights.

4390
02:43:56,160 --> 02:44:00,800
>> Our photo cells are at 43 feet high.

4391
02:44:00,800 --> 02:44:03,439
So, they're receiving ambient light at

4392
02:44:03,439 --> 02:44:07,520
43 feet. any light source that's

4393
02:44:07,520 --> 02:44:10,160
downfacing, flood lights, street lights

4394
02:44:10,160 --> 02:44:13,040
that are lower than 483 feet aren't

4395
02:44:13,040 --> 02:44:15,120
being seen by our photo cell. And

4396
02:44:15,120 --> 02:44:17,439
therefore, our lights not being

4397
02:44:17,439 --> 02:44:20,319
increased in in brightness, which makes

4398
02:44:20,319 --> 02:44:23,520
sense because we want the ambient light

4399
02:44:23,520 --> 02:44:26,080
where the sign is to dictate how bright

4400
02:44:26,080 --> 02:44:28,880
the sign is. But the ambient light

4401
02:44:28,880 --> 02:44:31,920
that's on the ground to the ground,

4402
02:44:31,920 --> 02:44:35,200
we're we're using that to dimmer sign,

4403
02:44:35,200 --> 02:44:38,399
but that's not what we're do. That's not

4404
02:44:38,399 --> 02:44:42,160
the result. So, we'll have a dimmer sign

4405
02:44:42,160 --> 02:44:45,920
based upon the ambient light of at night

4406
02:44:45,920 --> 02:44:52,309
and during a day it won't.

4407
02:44:52,319 --> 02:44:54,000
So, it's pretty conservative from that

4408
02:44:54,000 --> 02:44:56,000
nature when you have an elevated sign

4409
02:44:56,000 --> 02:45:02,469
like that.

4410
02:45:02,479 --> 02:45:05,359
Um, so then the next item I wanted to

4411
02:45:05,359 --> 02:45:07,439
point out is the outer limit on this

4412
02:45:07,439 --> 02:45:10,080
exhibit and that's where we go to zero

4413
02:45:10,080 --> 02:45:14,560
on foot candles. So there's no projected

4414
02:45:14,560 --> 02:45:17,040
increase on ambient light at that whole

4415
02:45:17,040 --> 02:45:18,160
perimeter

4416
02:45:18,160 --> 02:45:20,560
>> and that means no projected increase on

4417
02:45:20,560 --> 02:45:21,920
any residential property.

4418
02:45:21,920 --> 02:45:24,240
>> That's correct.

4419
02:45:24,240 --> 02:45:25,840
And that was the second part of that

4420
02:45:25,840 --> 02:45:28,399
design standard was you can't have more

4421
02:45:28,399 --> 02:45:30,640
than 0.1 on any residential property and

4422
02:45:30,640 --> 02:45:33,040
at all residential properties our foot

4423
02:45:33,040 --> 02:45:34,800
candles would be zero.

4424
02:45:34,800 --> 02:45:36,479
>> And so I'll go back to the aerial

4425
02:45:36,479 --> 02:45:38,560
exhibit

4426
02:45:38,560 --> 02:45:41,040
and this is where the important part of

4427
02:45:41,040 --> 02:45:43,920
this exhibit for this discussion occurs.

4428
02:45:43,920 --> 02:45:46,720
That in in yellow that dashed line the

4429
02:45:46,720 --> 02:45:48,800
two cones there that's the same exact

4430
02:45:48,800 --> 02:45:50,560
line that we had on the other plan.

4431
02:45:50,560 --> 02:45:53,200
That's the 00 line. And so you could see

4432
02:45:53,200 --> 02:45:55,760
the distance um to neighboring

4433
02:45:55,760 --> 02:45:59,920
properties. Um I think we're probably

4434
02:45:59,920 --> 02:46:02,160
uh to to the nearest Redbank property is

4435
02:46:02,160 --> 02:46:05,200
over 800 ft. Um I think we're probably

4436
02:46:05,200 --> 02:46:08,160
about 600 feet to the nearest um

4437
02:46:08,160 --> 02:46:11,680
residential property in Shrewsbury.

4438
02:46:11,680 --> 02:46:14,000
Um so you know we we meet all those

4439
02:46:14,000 --> 02:46:30,309
standards. Again we're be below zero.

4440
02:46:30,319 --> 02:46:31,840
Are you done?

4441
02:46:31,840 --> 02:46:32,560
>> No.

4442
02:46:32,560 --> 02:46:33,680
>> Don't.

4443
02:46:33,680 --> 02:46:35,200
>> He's checking his notes to make sure he

4444
02:46:35,200 --> 02:46:36,720
didn't leave anything out relative to

4445
02:46:36,720 --> 02:46:38,240
that section before moving on to the

4446
02:46:38,240 --> 02:46:38,640
next one.

4447
02:46:38,640 --> 02:46:40,960
>> Okay. I just was curious about the

4448
02:46:40,960 --> 02:46:43,200
pause.

4449
02:46:43,200 --> 02:46:50,309
>> Was I Was I correct on that? Yes.

4450
02:46:50,319 --> 02:46:52,960
So there's there's one more for standard

4451
02:46:52,960 --> 02:46:57,120
I was mentioned. Um the first one was

4452
02:46:57,120 --> 02:47:00,240
for glare that was the the 1.5 at the

4453
02:47:00,240 --> 02:47:02,720
property and then the 0.1 and then

4454
02:47:02,720 --> 02:47:04,240
there's a lighting and illumination.

4455
02:47:04,240 --> 02:47:06,720
It's actually in the next section and it

4456
02:47:06,720 --> 02:47:09,359
talks about not exceeding.5 foot candles

4457
02:47:09,359 --> 02:47:11,200
at the property line. Again it's the

4458
02:47:11,200 --> 02:47:15,520
same result. This requires 0.5. Um, I'm

4459
02:47:15,520 --> 02:47:16,960
not sure why it differs diff differs

4460
02:47:16,960 --> 02:47:18,720
from the glare section, but it is in the

4461
02:47:18,720 --> 02:47:20,479
performance standards. So, we wouldn't

4462
02:47:20,479 --> 02:47:22,080
be meeting that either for those same

4463
02:47:22,080 --> 02:47:26,630
reasons.

4464
02:47:26,640 --> 02:47:29,920
» Okay. So, as requested both in um the

4465
02:47:29,920 --> 02:47:32,560
planning and engineering review and also

4466
02:47:32,560 --> 02:47:34,399
um informal questions that were

4467
02:47:34,399 --> 02:47:38,160
mentioned to us was um compliance with

4468
02:47:38,160 --> 02:47:40,240
dark sky

4469
02:47:40,240 --> 02:47:43,680
uh parameters. The um Dark Sky

4470
02:47:43,680 --> 02:47:48,319
Association is a a private organization

4471
02:47:48,319 --> 02:47:50,479
that supports

4472
02:47:50,479 --> 02:47:52,560
what it kind of what it says, dark sky,

4473
02:47:52,560 --> 02:47:54,560
viewing of constellations, limiting of

4474
02:47:54,560 --> 02:47:57,040
light pollution, etc. Um it's not a

4475
02:47:57,040 --> 02:47:58,800
regulatory agency. It's not a

4476
02:47:58,800 --> 02:48:01,120
jurisdictional element. It's an entity

4477
02:48:01,120 --> 02:48:03,200
that sets standards for for multiple

4478
02:48:03,200 --> 02:48:05,680
things. Um and one of the things they do

4479
02:48:05,680 --> 02:48:08,479
discuss is sign is is LED billboards

4480
02:48:08,479 --> 02:48:10,240
specifically.

4481
02:48:10,240 --> 02:48:13,439
Um, and this is where it's it's a little

4482
02:48:13,439 --> 02:48:16,399
confusing. I if I lose you, feel free to

4483
02:48:16,399 --> 02:48:18,960
ask a question because it gets into some

4484
02:48:18,960 --> 02:48:22,160
science. Um, my parents would both be

4485
02:48:22,160 --> 02:48:27,120
proud. Um, so I me I explained before we

4486
02:48:27,120 --> 02:48:29,279
have foot candles because that's easy.

4487
02:48:29,279 --> 02:48:31,359
The light hits a table, the light hits a

4488
02:48:31,359 --> 02:48:33,520
meter, it's a foot candle. And then I

4489
02:48:33,520 --> 02:48:35,359
talked about but when you look up at the

4490
02:48:35,359 --> 02:48:36,800
light element, that's a totally

4491
02:48:36,800 --> 02:48:38,960
different thing, right? It's like it's

4492
02:48:38,960 --> 02:48:41,439
like a spotlight versus the light that

4493
02:48:41,439 --> 02:48:45,120
the spotlight is throwing. Right now,

4494
02:48:45,120 --> 02:48:48,720
the difference in units in that and the

4495
02:48:48,720 --> 02:48:52,399
what we what we call illuminance is the

4496
02:48:52,399 --> 02:48:54,880
foot candles. Then what's called

4497
02:48:54,880 --> 02:48:57,760
luminance is the focus and the

4498
02:48:57,760 --> 02:49:00,160
brightness of the source. And it's

4499
02:49:00,160 --> 02:49:02,000
measured at the source. It's not

4500
02:49:02,000 --> 02:49:04,080
measured at a different distance. It's

4501
02:49:04,080 --> 02:49:06,399
measured at the source. But what you can

4502
02:49:06,399 --> 02:49:12,160
do is control how it spreads. Okay. So

4503
02:49:12,160 --> 02:49:16,000
the um signs like these they and oh

4504
02:49:16,000 --> 02:49:19,120
sorry that unit is called a knit. That's

4505
02:49:19,120 --> 02:49:22,960
the standard unit for this. It's I've

4506
02:49:22,960 --> 02:49:25,120
one candel

4507
02:49:25,120 --> 02:49:27,040
and that's a knit. Whatever whatever a

4508
02:49:27,040 --> 02:49:27,840
knit is.

4509
02:49:27,840 --> 02:49:28,800
>> It's how bright it is.

4510
02:49:28,800 --> 02:49:30,160
when you're

4511
02:49:30,160 --> 02:49:31,840
looking at the light source.

4512
02:49:31,840 --> 02:49:33,359
>> Right at and you're in front of it.

4513
02:49:33,359 --> 02:49:36,080
>> It's measured at the light source.

4514
02:49:36,080 --> 02:49:37,279
Mr.

4515
02:49:37,279 --> 02:49:38,560
>> Nit Nit.

4516
02:49:38,560 --> 02:49:39,680
>> That's interesting because it's not an

4517
02:49:39,680 --> 02:49:41,279
anagram for anything. So, I'm not sure

4518
02:49:41,279 --> 02:49:46,870
where that came from.

4519
02:49:46,880 --> 02:49:47,920
» And they say, "Nick,

4520
02:49:47,920 --> 02:49:50,240
>> flesh wound, I tell you."

4521
02:49:50,240 --> 02:49:54,479
>> Um

4522
02:49:54,479 --> 02:49:57,439
>> so uh

4523
02:49:57,439 --> 02:49:59,760
Dark Sky has some standards for that and

4524
02:49:59,760 --> 02:50:01,680
I'm going to work into that. The first

4525
02:50:01,680 --> 02:50:02,880
thing they do, one of the things they

4526
02:50:02,880 --> 02:50:04,560
set forth is they they have a whole kind

4527
02:50:04,560 --> 02:50:08,710
of rec

4528
02:50:08,720 --> 02:50:11,200
what they call EMC's, electronic message

4529
02:50:11,200 --> 02:50:13,760
centers, and and they it even says

4530
02:50:13,760 --> 02:50:15,359
billboards are included in this. They're

4531
02:50:15,359 --> 02:50:17,840
kind of prepped for having these kind

4532
02:50:17,840 --> 02:50:20,560
they even write sample ordinances for

4533
02:50:20,560 --> 02:50:22,720
towns about if they wanted to adopt them

4534
02:50:22,720 --> 02:50:25,279
and help them with that. Um, but what

4535
02:50:25,279 --> 02:50:28,080
they recognize is that different levels

4536
02:50:28,080 --> 02:50:30,080
of activity

4537
02:50:30,080 --> 02:50:33,040
requirements

4538
02:50:33,040 --> 02:50:36,399
for restricting light. Um, so they rate

4539
02:50:36,399 --> 02:50:40,960
their lighting zones LZ0 through LZ4.

4540
02:50:40,960 --> 02:50:43,600
So LZ4 would be the busiest kind of

4541
02:50:43,600 --> 02:50:46,000
location you might have where you're not

4542
02:50:46,000 --> 02:50:48,080
really concerned with light trespass,

4543
02:50:48,080 --> 02:50:49,520
>> like Time Square.

4544
02:50:49,520 --> 02:50:50,960
>> Well, maybe not that. I think time

4545
02:50:50,960 --> 02:50:52,880
square LZ12 because I went there the

4546
02:50:52,880 --> 02:50:53,920
other day and I thought it was broad

4547
02:50:53,920 --> 02:50:54,800
daylight.

4548
02:50:54,800 --> 02:50:55,760
>> Um

4549
02:50:55,760 --> 02:50:59,120
>> but you know it it it it raised for for

4550
02:50:59,120 --> 02:51:01,840
normal not times square that LZ4 would

4551
02:51:01,840 --> 02:51:05,120
be an urban very high a lot of

4552
02:51:05,120 --> 02:51:08,000
operations and then LZ3210

4553
02:51:08,000 --> 02:51:11,279
LZ0 is basically there's no light um and

4554
02:51:11,279 --> 02:51:12,560
therefore you'd have more restrictions

4555
02:51:12,560 --> 02:51:16,800
on light trespass. Um so I I qualify

4556
02:51:16,800 --> 02:51:18,720
this as an LZ3. I'll read you the

4557
02:51:18,720 --> 02:51:22,319
definition. um moderately high ambient

4558
02:51:22,319 --> 02:51:24,720
lighting areas of human activity where

4559
02:51:24,720 --> 02:51:27,120
the vision of human residents and users

4560
02:51:27,120 --> 02:51:29,439
is adapted to moderately high light

4561
02:51:29,439 --> 02:51:32,240
levels. This is a recommended default

4562
02:51:32,240 --> 02:51:35,200
zone for business districts in large

4563
02:51:35,200 --> 02:51:38,800
cities. Okay. The next level down from

4564
02:51:38,800 --> 02:51:39,279
that

4565
02:51:39,279 --> 02:51:40,560
>> well let's talk about the level that

4566
02:51:40,560 --> 02:51:41,680
we're in. So let's

4567
02:51:41,680 --> 02:51:42,160
>> L3.

4568
02:51:42,160 --> 02:51:43,840
>> Yeah. L3. So

4569
02:51:43,840 --> 02:51:45,840
>> again, and I I respect that you want to

4570
02:51:45,840 --> 02:51:47,920
give some context, but this is not a

4571
02:51:47,920 --> 02:51:50,240
primer on dark sky compliance.

4572
02:51:50,240 --> 02:51:51,359
>> Well, to be clear, it's your opinion

4573
02:51:51,359 --> 02:51:53,279
that it's L3, right? Dark Sky has not

4574
02:51:53,279 --> 02:51:55,840
come in and said Red Bank is high.

4575
02:51:55,840 --> 02:51:57,520
>> A couple things, and again, I'm not sure

4576
02:51:57,520 --> 02:51:58,960
why we're going into this level of

4577
02:51:58,960 --> 02:52:01,439
detail as to an organization that sets

4578
02:52:01,439 --> 02:52:03,120
standards that are not enforceable and

4579
02:52:03,120 --> 02:52:05,439
have not been adopted by the bureau. So

4580
02:52:05,439 --> 02:52:08,479
again, this is just for context, but

4581
02:52:08,479 --> 02:52:12,720
again, it's based on their regula, their

4582
02:52:12,720 --> 02:52:15,439
standards. My expert is characterizing

4583
02:52:15,439 --> 02:52:19,439
it as level three, but again, we're not

4584
02:52:19,439 --> 02:52:22,319
bound to it in that it's not been

4585
02:52:22,319 --> 02:52:24,240
adopted by the burrow. So, so the the

4586
02:52:24,240 --> 02:52:27,439
long short answer about dark sky is is

4587
02:52:27,439 --> 02:52:29,439
there's there's no requirements put upon

4588
02:52:29,439 --> 02:52:31,840
this applicant or any applicant on dark

4589
02:52:31,840 --> 02:52:33,520
sky because it's not adopted by the by

4590
02:52:33,520 --> 02:52:37,359
any master plan to adopt a dark sky

4591
02:52:37,359 --> 02:52:38,880
strategy and we have to consider the

4592
02:52:38,880 --> 02:52:40,240
master plan and a use fair. I

4593
02:52:40,240 --> 02:52:41,840
>> I just want I want we want to be fair

4594
02:52:41,840 --> 02:52:43,359
and address it thoroughly for you

4595
02:52:43,359 --> 02:52:44,800
because the question was asked both in

4596
02:52:44,800 --> 02:52:46,800
the review letter and separately. So, we

4597
02:52:46,800 --> 02:52:47,920
>> on fairness that's what we're here to

4598
02:52:47,920 --> 02:52:49,840
do, right? address well

4599
02:52:49,840 --> 02:52:51,600
>> does the use variance have a negative

4600
02:52:51,600 --> 02:52:53,120
impact on the master plan or the

4601
02:52:53,120 --> 02:52:54,000
ordinances?

4602
02:52:54,000 --> 02:52:55,680
>> Well, no. It's whether or not it has a

4603
02:52:55,680 --> 02:52:57,439
substantially negative impact that

4604
02:52:57,439 --> 02:52:59,439
outweighs all the benefits. It's not in

4605
02:52:59,439 --> 02:53:01,920
a vacuum and any variance has a negative

4606
02:53:01,920 --> 02:53:05,279
impact and it it's not does it have does

4607
02:53:05,279 --> 02:53:07,439
it have a negative impact on one small

4608
02:53:07,439 --> 02:53:08,479
element

4609
02:53:08,479 --> 02:53:11,040
>> of the master plan? Again, let's talk

4610
02:53:11,040 --> 02:53:13,920
about what our knits are, how much light

4611
02:53:13,920 --> 02:53:15,680
we're producing, and what that

4612
02:53:15,680 --> 02:53:18,960
translates to into foot candles at

4613
02:53:18,960 --> 02:53:21,040
different distances.

4614
02:53:21,040 --> 02:53:23,600
>> So, we're going to focus on the the wind

4615
02:53:23,600 --> 02:53:25,680
of the nets, the daytime amount of the

4616
02:53:25,680 --> 02:53:27,120
knits. As I said before, when the sign's

4617
02:53:27,120 --> 02:53:29,120
at its brightest, nobody really cares

4618
02:53:29,120 --> 02:53:33,120
how bright it is because it's kept at a reasonable level with ambient

4619
02:53:33,120 --> 02:53:34,640
light. It's at night time that you're

4620
02:53:34,640 --> 02:53:35,920
concerned how bright that's going to be.

4621
02:53:35,920 --> 02:53:39,920
So, we focus on on on the low end. Um,

4622
02:53:39,920 --> 02:53:43,520
so our signs produce when they're white

4623
02:53:43,520 --> 02:53:45,359
and at their lowest. So, in other words,

4624
02:53:45,359 --> 02:53:46,960
we've got low ambient light like our

4625
02:53:46,960 --> 02:53:48,640
point.

4626
02:53:48,640 --> 02:53:50,720
We got low ambient light levels. We're

4627
02:53:50,720 --> 02:53:54,319
putting out on a white sign, pure white,

4628
02:53:54,319 --> 02:53:57,840
no no copy at all, is 300 nits.

4629
02:53:57,840 --> 02:54:00,000
>> So, let's just let's stop there for a

4630
02:54:00,000 --> 02:54:01,600
second. So that would be as if we're

4631
02:54:01,600 --> 02:54:03,279
using our, you know, our flashlights

4632
02:54:03,279 --> 02:54:04,960
work on our phones where it just goes

4633
02:54:04,960 --> 02:54:07,120
white. It would just be like the

4634
02:54:07,120 --> 02:54:08,800
flashlight on the phone when you when

4635
02:54:08,800 --> 02:54:11,359
you light up your screen and there's no

4636
02:54:11,359 --> 02:54:13,359
scenario that we would do that because

4637
02:54:13,359 --> 02:54:14,880
if it was all white, there'd be no

4638
02:54:14,880 --> 02:54:15,840
message to be read.

4639
02:54:15,840 --> 02:54:19,520
>> Correct. The the that's all white. Now,

4640
02:54:19,520 --> 02:54:22,880
different colors have different

4641
02:54:22,880 --> 02:54:25,359
illuminance or luminance values just on

4642
02:54:25,359 --> 02:54:27,279
the color itself, even with the same

4643
02:54:27,279 --> 02:54:30,399
power. So, white puts us fourth at the

4644
02:54:30,399 --> 02:54:34,720
most at 300 nits. Um, the next one down

4645
02:54:34,720 --> 02:54:38,240
is green. Green's about 60%

4646
02:54:38,240 --> 02:54:40,960
of the total power draw. So, it's about

4647
02:54:40,960 --> 02:54:42,160
180 nits.

4648
02:54:42,160 --> 02:54:43,600
>> So, again, that would be as if it was an

4649
02:54:43,600 --> 02:54:44,960
all green with no message.

4650
02:54:44,960 --> 02:54:47,120
>> That's correct. And and the next one

4651
02:54:47,120 --> 02:54:51,200
down is red. All red, no message. That's

4652
02:54:51,200 --> 02:54:54,960
um about 30%. That's 60 nets. And then

4653
02:54:54,960 --> 02:54:56,960
the next one down, the lowest one is

4654
02:54:56,960 --> 02:55:00,319
blue and that's 10%. So that's 30 nits

4655
02:55:00,319 --> 02:55:01,200
on average.

4656
02:55:01,200 --> 02:55:03,200
>> Yeah, it doesn't make sense to

4657
02:55:03,200 --> 02:55:05,840
>> on average. And this is based upon the

4658
02:55:05,840 --> 02:55:08,640
data that Outfront has monitoring their

4659
02:55:08,640 --> 02:55:10,640
power that they send to the signs. On

4660
02:55:10,640 --> 02:55:17,279
average, they're about 30% or about a third of the total max. So of

4661
02:55:17,279 --> 02:55:20,000
the 300, they're at about a third of

4662
02:55:20,000 --> 02:55:22,240
that. They they average about a hundred.

4663
02:55:22,240 --> 02:55:23,920
And that's due to the different colors

4664
02:55:23,920 --> 02:55:26,240
of the copy being on there at their low

4665
02:55:26,240 --> 02:55:29,269
point.

4666
02:55:29,279 --> 02:55:32,800
» The advertisement with the the the the

4667
02:55:32,800 --> 02:55:36,399
illustration and the text is on average

4668
02:55:36,399 --> 02:55:38,319
100 minutes. That's what you're saying.

4669
02:55:38,319 --> 02:55:38,960
Correct.

4670
02:55:38,960 --> 02:55:42,160
>> And three and 300 is your white like the

4671
02:55:42,160 --> 02:55:44,000
flashlight on your phone.

4672
02:55:44,000 --> 02:55:46,080
>> But typically, so some may be above 100,

4673
02:55:46,080 --> 02:55:48,479
some may be below, but somebody has

4674
02:55:48,479 --> 02:55:50,240
actually looked at this at Outfront.

4675
02:55:50,240 --> 02:55:53,359
You're saying that your your your

4676
02:55:53,359 --> 02:55:55,279
advertisements on average are 100.

4677
02:55:55,279 --> 02:55:56,800
>> Yes. And we're committing to that.

4678
02:55:56,800 --> 02:55:58,720
>> Thank you.

4679
02:55:58,720 --> 02:56:02,399
>> So, we'll go back to Dark Sky.

4680
02:56:02,399 --> 02:56:04,880
with their lighting levels for

4681
02:56:04,880 --> 02:56:06,640
the LZ3.

4682
02:56:06,640 --> 02:56:09,439
Their level recommendation is 80 nits.

4683
02:56:09,439 --> 02:56:11,680
So, we're really very close to that

4684
02:56:11,680 --> 02:56:15,040
ballpark. And that that varies when you

4685
02:56:15,040 --> 02:56:17,520
change groups within Dark Sky to the

4686
02:56:17,520 --> 02:56:19,760
tune of like 100%.

4687
02:56:19,760 --> 02:56:21,760
So, if you go one level down from Dark

4688
02:56:21,760 --> 02:56:23,279
Side, it goes from 80 to 40. If you go

4689
02:56:23,279 --> 02:56:25,920
one level up, it goes from 80 to 160.

4690
02:56:25,920 --> 02:56:29,600
So, it's a pretty it's a pretty um it's

4691
02:56:29,600 --> 02:56:32,160
more of a neighborhood than an exact

4692
02:56:32,160 --> 02:56:35,040
number. And that's the recommendation um

4693
02:56:35,040 --> 02:56:37,359
that that Dark Sky has. And you can see

4694
02:56:37,359 --> 02:56:39,920
we're really in that ballpark already.

4695
02:56:39,920 --> 02:56:44,160
Um and so it kind of makes sense with what Dark Sky is putting out as far

4696
02:56:44,160 --> 02:56:45,439
as what they think is appropriate for

4697
02:56:45,439 --> 02:56:47,760
communication. So, additionally, dark

4698
02:56:47,760 --> 02:56:52,319
sky has different categories for how to

4699
02:56:52,319 --> 02:56:54,640
mitigate any impact irrespective of the

4700
02:56:54,640 --> 02:56:56,640
nit. So, if you can't get down to the 60

4701
02:56:56,640 --> 02:56:59,680
and and realistically,

4702
02:56:59,680 --> 02:57:01,359
I don't know how realistic that is, but

4703
02:57:01,359 --> 02:57:03,279
you can't get down to 60, there's other

4704
02:57:03,279 --> 02:57:05,040
things that they ask you to do by way of

4705
02:57:05,040 --> 02:57:06,240
mitigation. Yeah.

4706
02:57:06,240 --> 02:57:08,560
>> And and and we're doing almost all of

4707
02:57:08,560 --> 02:57:10,560
those. Correct. Then why don't you just

4708
02:57:10,560 --> 02:57:14,720
without reading from dark sky just list

4709
02:57:14,720 --> 02:57:16,080
what those things are.

4710
02:57:16,080 --> 02:57:17,840
>> So these are known as their best

4711
02:57:17,840 --> 02:57:20,720
management practices. It's best to do as

4712
02:57:20,720 --> 02:57:24,000
many of these as you can. One monitoring

4713
02:57:24,000 --> 02:57:25,920
make sure they're monitored 247. If

4714
02:57:25,920 --> 02:57:27,120
there's any issues, if there's any

4715
02:57:27,120 --> 02:57:28,399
malfunctions, it's handled

4716
02:57:28,399 --> 02:57:30,000
>> which is the

4717
02:57:30,000 --> 02:57:32,720
>> Mr. Arvey handled that in his testimony.

4718
02:57:32,720 --> 02:57:35,680
Sensitive area setback. This is relation

4719
02:57:35,680 --> 02:57:39,040
to parks, wildlife refugees.

4720
02:57:39,040 --> 02:57:40,960
etc. where bright lights might impact

4721
02:57:40,960 --> 02:57:43,200
animals or nature centers. We don't have

4722
02:57:43,200 --> 02:57:46,560
any of that in our vicinity. Um the next

4723
02:57:46,560 --> 02:57:50,800
one is um distraction limitation as far

4724
02:57:50,800 --> 02:57:52,800
as how often the changing of copy and

4725
02:57:52,800 --> 02:57:54,960
how the copy is changed. Again, that's

4726
02:57:54,960 --> 02:57:56,399
all set by DOT.

4727
02:57:56,399 --> 02:57:58,000
>> And let me just and let me just point

4728
02:57:58,000 --> 02:58:00,319
out to the board. So these are general

4729
02:58:00,319 --> 02:58:03,359
standards throughout the country. Not

4730
02:58:03,359 --> 02:58:05,760
every state has the same regulations

4731
02:58:05,760 --> 02:58:08,319
that the DOT does. So the DOT enforces

4732
02:58:08,319 --> 02:58:10,479
that in and of itself through its

4733
02:58:10,479 --> 02:58:13,760
regulations. So we meet that not because

4734
02:58:13,760 --> 02:58:15,200
we're trying. We meet that because we

4735
02:58:15,200 --> 02:58:15,680
have to.

4736
02:58:15,680 --> 02:58:17,200
>> Right.

4737
02:58:17,200 --> 02:58:19,760
And the the recommendation is that set a

4738
02:58:19,760 --> 02:58:22,240
minimum, set a maximum, set standards.

4739
02:58:22,240 --> 02:58:23,760
So not only are standards set in New

4740
02:58:23,760 --> 02:58:27,120
Jersey for us, but we follow them. Um

4741
02:58:27,120 --> 02:58:28,720
number four, gradual brightness

4742
02:58:28,720 --> 02:58:30,960
reduction. We're not turning we're not

4743
02:58:30,960 --> 02:58:35,359
suddenly going dimmer from full blast to lower. It's all done through our

4744
02:58:35,359 --> 02:58:38,160
photo cell. The same way nature operates

4745
02:58:38,160 --> 02:58:40,720
gradually gradually on on the

4746
02:58:40,720 --> 02:58:42,160
brightness, the same way our sign will

4747
02:58:42,160 --> 02:58:45,439
be adjusted. Uh size limits. Um this one

4748
02:58:45,439 --> 02:58:47,920
is is kind of like neither here nor

4749
02:58:47,920 --> 02:58:49,920
there. This is really instruction for a

4750
02:58:49,920 --> 02:58:52,479
regulator to set size limits on where

4751
02:58:52,479 --> 02:58:54,000
they think certain sizes would be

4752
02:58:54,000 --> 02:58:55,680
appropriate or inappropriate. So it

4753
02:58:55,680 --> 02:58:58,319
doesn't really apply to us. And um the

4754
02:58:58,319 --> 02:59:00,000
next one is density limits, meaning the

4755
02:59:00,000 --> 02:59:01,920
density of signs and the frequency of

4756
02:59:01,920 --> 02:59:04,000
the electronic signs. And again, as we

4757
02:59:04,000 --> 02:59:06,080
said, that's already handled by DOT.

4758
02:59:06,080 --> 02:59:07,680
There's no there's, you know, we're

4759
02:59:07,680 --> 02:59:09,760
beyond 3,000 ft where no sign could be.

4760
02:59:09,760 --> 02:59:11,359
>> So for every one of those generally

4761
02:59:11,359 --> 02:59:13,920
accepted practices that are within our

4762
02:59:13,920 --> 02:59:15,920
power to comply with, we are complying

4763
02:59:15,920 --> 02:59:16,319
with that.

4764
02:59:16,319 --> 02:59:18,160
>> That's correct.

4765
02:59:18,160 --> 02:59:20,160
Uh, Miss Crimco, we're going to take

4766
02:59:20,160 --> 02:59:21,520
like

4767
02:59:21,520 --> 02:59:21,920
>> Okay,

4768
02:59:21,920 --> 02:59:23,600
>> I'm going to check with the board

4769
02:59:23,600 --> 02:59:27,760
members to to see if we can extend this

4770
02:59:27,760 --> 02:59:30,240
maybe to 10:00, but I want to ask them

4771
02:59:30,240 --> 02:59:32,640
because they're volunteers. They've been

4772
02:59:32,640 --> 02:59:34,240
here sitting here for three and a half

4773
02:59:34,240 --> 02:59:37,200
hours and at some point you lose

4774
02:59:37,200 --> 02:59:39,920
attention to a lot of the details and I

4775
02:59:39,920 --> 02:59:42,560
want to make sure everybody is on board

4776
02:59:42,560 --> 02:59:44,720
with going till 10:00. So, if you give

4777
02:59:44,720 --> 02:59:46,640
us a couple minutes.

4778
02:59:46,640 --> 02:59:48,560
>> Sure. And you you won't be offended if I

4779
02:59:48,560 --> 02:59:50,800
step out of the room for a moment.

4780
02:59:50,800 --> 02:59:58,070
>> You

4781
02:59:58,080 --> 03:00:03,279
wait a minute. We got to do a roll call.

4782
03:00:03,279 --> 03:00:04,240
>> Anor

4783
03:00:04,240 --> 03:00:05,200
>> here.

4784
03:00:05,200 --> 03:00:06,080
>> Raymond Mass

4785
03:00:06,080 --> 03:00:07,200
>> here.

4786
03:00:07,200 --> 03:00:08,479
>> Greg Fitzgerald

4787
03:00:08,479 --> 03:00:09,279
>> here. We

4788
03:00:09,279 --> 03:00:10,240
>> John Gild

4789
03:00:10,240 --> 03:00:10,880
>> here.

4790
03:00:10,880 --> 03:00:11,840
>> Vincent Light

4791
03:00:11,840 --> 03:00:12,399
>> here.

4792
03:00:12,399 --> 03:00:13,600
>> Paul Kagno

4793
03:00:13,600 --> 03:00:14,399
>> here.

4794
03:00:14,399 --> 03:00:15,760
>> Eugene Harowit

4795
03:00:15,760 --> 03:00:17,600
>> here. Chris Havens

4796
03:00:17,600 --> 03:00:18,080
>> here.

4797
03:00:18,080 --> 03:00:20,319
>> Darthy Cerulo

4798
03:00:20,319 --> 03:00:21,439
must have stepped up.

4799
03:00:21,439 --> 03:00:23,920
>> Yeah, she's here.

4800
03:00:23,920 --> 03:00:26,640
>> So, so we we've decided that we're going

4801
03:00:26,640 --> 03:00:29,920
to live finish with this witness and

4802
03:00:29,920 --> 03:00:32,800
then look to carry it to uh the next

4803
03:00:32,800 --> 03:00:33,439
meeting.

4804
03:00:33,439 --> 03:00:34,160
>> Okay. Great.

4805
03:00:34,160 --> 03:00:36,000
>> Because it's just getting getting a

4806
03:00:36,000 --> 03:00:36,640
little crazy.

4807
03:00:36,640 --> 03:00:38,160
>> Understood. So, I'm going to step away

4808
03:00:38,160 --> 03:00:40,560
from the technical for a second. Okay.

4809
03:00:40,560 --> 03:00:43,279
>> I think that that might be Wait, we're

4810
03:00:43,279 --> 03:00:44,479
missing somebody. Shall we?

4811
03:00:44,479 --> 03:00:47,120
>> Yeah, Dorothy.

4812
03:00:47,120 --> 03:00:51,830
back.

4813
03:00:51,840 --> 03:00:53,920
» While we wait, can I ask one quick

4814
03:00:53,920 --> 03:00:58,469
clarifying question?

4815
03:00:58,479 --> 03:01:00,720
» I I would love to. The problem is is if

4816
03:01:00,720 --> 03:01:02,880
she's not here on any part of it.

4817
03:01:02,880 --> 03:01:04,720
>> Yeah, I don't think it I don't think it

4818
03:01:04,720 --> 03:01:06,160
would really matter.

4819
03:01:06,160 --> 03:01:06,880
>> There she is.

4820
03:01:06,880 --> 03:01:09,520
>> Here she come.

4821
03:01:09,520 --> 03:01:11,600
>> Just give it to I'll I'll stay as long

4822
03:01:11,600 --> 03:01:12,960
as you want. I know you guys want to go

4823
03:01:12,960 --> 03:01:13,600
home, but um

4824
03:01:13,600 --> 03:01:14,960
>> I just quick question. Yeah, the

4825
03:01:14,960 --> 03:01:18,560
billboard has two sides and the proposal

4826
03:01:18,560 --> 03:01:22,880
is to give Redbank 12.5% of the signage.

4827
03:01:22,880 --> 03:01:26,319
Is that both sides or one side?

4828
03:01:26,319 --> 03:01:27,040
>> Both sides.

4829
03:01:27,040 --> 03:01:30,479
That's all. Thank you,

4830
03:01:30,479 --> 03:01:34,000
>> Mr. In case you missed that.

4831
03:01:34,000 --> 03:01:36,000
>> And we're not just giving 12 and a half%

4832
03:01:36,000 --> 03:01:38,160
of one of the faces. It's for both of

4833
03:01:38,160 --> 03:01:42,880
the faces. So that's really 25.

4834
03:01:42,880 --> 03:01:45,920
If I could be pedantic, you mean half is

4835
03:01:45,920 --> 03:01:47,680
25.

4836
03:01:47,680 --> 03:01:52,399
I'm just playing. I know. I'm kidding.

4837
03:01:52,399 --> 03:01:54,000
>> Okay. So, finish.

4838
03:01:54,000 --> 03:01:55,760
>> Yeah. So, just very briefly, and again,

4839
03:01:55,760 --> 03:01:57,279
this was one of the I know one of the

4840
03:01:57,279 --> 03:01:59,200
board members had asked for this, and I

4841
03:01:59,200 --> 03:02:00,399
just want to make sure that we

4842
03:02:00,399 --> 03:02:03,279
referenced it in the testimony. So,

4843
03:02:03,279 --> 03:02:04,880
there's an exhibit that we moved in as

4844
03:02:04,880 --> 03:02:07,120
A18. Those of you that were at the last

4845
03:02:07,120 --> 03:02:10,800
meeting uh previously recognized this.

4846
03:02:10,800 --> 03:02:12,479
Dan, I'm going to just ask you some

4847
03:02:12,479 --> 03:02:15,840
questions and to confirm it. So, um,

4848
03:02:15,840 --> 03:02:19,920
outfront typically will hire a crane

4849
03:02:19,920 --> 03:02:21,600
and

4850
03:02:21,600 --> 03:02:25,439
place it at the site and hold a flag

4851
03:02:25,439 --> 03:02:27,680
down that's 10 ft in that's the same

4852
03:02:27,680 --> 03:02:30,000
height as the billboard sign. Correct.

4853
03:02:30,000 --> 03:02:30,640
>> That's correct.

4854
03:02:30,640 --> 03:02:32,720
>> And they will hang it in the exact

4855
03:02:32,720 --> 03:02:35,439
location that the Let me just get my

4856
03:02:35,439 --> 03:02:38,479
side. That's the southern end of where

4857
03:02:38,479 --> 03:02:40,720
those billboards would be. Yes.

4858
03:02:40,720 --> 03:02:44,080
>> So the the the flag is held exactly in

4859
03:02:44,080 --> 03:02:46,160
the location as to where the billboard

4860
03:02:46,160 --> 03:02:49,760
will address Newman Springs Road and

4861
03:02:49,760 --> 03:02:52,160
lots of pictures are taken and they're

4862
03:02:52,160 --> 03:02:54,720
taken from all varying distances up and

4863
03:02:54,720 --> 03:02:56,080
down Newman Springs Road in both

4864
03:02:56,080 --> 03:02:56,960
directions.

4865
03:02:56,960 --> 03:03:02,880
>> Correct. And then using your plan and again fortunately you corrected your

4866
03:03:02,880 --> 03:03:06,720
mistake before we finished these um

4867
03:03:06,720 --> 03:03:09,520
renderings using the existence of the

4868
03:03:09,520 --> 03:03:12,080
current sign.

4869
03:03:12,080 --> 03:03:16,800
The uh out front prepared a rendering

4870
03:03:16,800 --> 03:03:19,439
showing existing conditions and proposed

4871
03:03:19,439 --> 03:03:23,279
conditions of exactly what

4872
03:03:23,279 --> 03:03:25,040
people will see from these varying

4873
03:03:25,040 --> 03:03:27,279
locations. So, I'm asking the board to

4874
03:03:27,279 --> 03:03:30,479
take a look at A18. The first page is an

4875
03:03:30,479 --> 03:03:32,560
existing condition and that's traveling

4876
03:03:32,560 --> 03:03:34,640
east.

4877
03:03:34,640 --> 03:03:36,240
And

4878
03:03:36,240 --> 03:03:37,840
based on the picture and the way the

4879
03:03:37,840 --> 03:03:40,080
printout is, it's it's difficult to see

4880
03:03:40,080 --> 03:03:43,120
the sign on the left. Uh the sign

4881
03:03:43,120 --> 03:03:45,200
there's a white spot in the distance. I

4882
03:03:45,200 --> 03:03:47,279
originally thought that was the sign.

4883
03:03:47,279 --> 03:03:48,960
That's not. That's a reflection off of

4884
03:03:48,960 --> 03:03:51,200
the building. The sign is uh adjacent to

4885
03:03:51,200 --> 03:03:52,000
that. Correct.

4886
03:03:52,000 --> 03:03:54,160
>> That's correct.

4887
03:03:54,160 --> 03:03:58,160
And then when you turn the page,

4888
03:03:58,160 --> 03:04:00,800
uh, it shows from 750 ft what the view

4889
03:04:00,800 --> 03:04:03,760
of the billboard would be, uh, moved in

4890
03:04:03,760 --> 03:04:06,080
a little bit to the left on this camera.

4891
03:04:06,080 --> 03:04:09,120
>> That's correct.

4892
03:04:09,120 --> 03:04:10,880
>> And you can't see it, but it it is

4893
03:04:10,880 --> 03:04:14,720
advertising October Fest. Yeah.

4894
03:04:14,720 --> 03:04:17,600
The next page is 500 ft traveling in the

4895
03:04:17,600 --> 03:04:19,439
same direction. And there you can see

4896
03:04:19,439 --> 03:04:24,800
behind the um utility pole uh high up by

4897
03:04:24,800 --> 03:04:26,399
where the light poles are, you see the

4898
03:04:26,399 --> 03:04:27,920
face of the existing sign.

4899
03:04:27,920 --> 03:04:29,439
>> That's correct.

4900
03:04:29,439 --> 03:04:33,200
>> And then as you turn to the next page,

4901
03:04:33,200 --> 03:04:36,479
you see much smaller to the left of that

4902
03:04:36,479 --> 03:04:39,760
the uh new sign and then the uh

4903
03:04:39,760 --> 03:04:42,160
billboard beyond it.

4904
03:04:42,160 --> 03:04:43,760
>> That's correct.

4905
03:04:43,760 --> 03:04:45,920
And then again it repeats the same thing

4906
03:04:45,920 --> 03:04:51,279
at 250 ft existing

4907
03:04:51,279 --> 03:04:54,160
and 250 ft proposed.

4908
03:04:54,160 --> 03:04:54,720
>> Correct.

4909
03:04:54,720 --> 03:04:57,040
>> And this is what the traveling public

4910
03:04:57,040 --> 03:04:59,840
would see driving eastbound. And then as

4911
03:04:59,840 --> 03:05:03,520
you go turn the page, uh it's the same

4912
03:05:03,520 --> 03:05:07,359
thing 750 down to 250 showing exactly

4913
03:05:07,359 --> 03:05:09,840
what would be seen to scale at the exact

4914
03:05:09,840 --> 03:05:12,399
height and size of what's being

4915
03:05:12,399 --> 03:05:18,479
proposed. And as you see it's 750 the liquor store sign you could see the

4916
03:05:18,479 --> 03:05:23,279
relation and then the 500

4917
03:05:23,279 --> 03:05:25,439
and then you go through and I think 250

4918
03:05:25,439 --> 03:05:27,680
is is the best seen as you could see in

4919
03:05:27,680 --> 03:05:30,319
comparison. That's correct.

4920
03:05:30,319 --> 03:05:32,640
>> So, we were asked to provide that. I

4921
03:05:32,640 --> 03:05:35,040
just wanted to not leave tonight before

4922
03:05:35,040 --> 03:05:36,800
we had the opportunity to explain what

4923
03:05:36,800 --> 03:05:38,160
those were.

4924
03:05:38,160 --> 03:05:40,080
>> Are there any questions for Dan?

4925
03:05:40,080 --> 03:05:43,520
>> Any questions from the board?

4926
03:05:43,520 --> 03:05:44,720
>> Um, I don't know if you're the right

4927
03:05:44,720 --> 03:05:46,240
person, but I'm just curious about

4928
03:05:46,240 --> 03:05:48,800
connectivity. Um,

4929
03:05:48,800 --> 03:05:52,640
is the you're using um cellular or is

4930
03:05:52,640 --> 03:05:55,120
there uh fiber? Like how is the

4931
03:05:55,120 --> 03:05:57,040
>> It was going to be there. that was asked

4932
03:05:57,040 --> 03:05:58,640
and we went over quickly. It's going to

4933
03:05:58,640 --> 03:05:59,920
be hard w you mean the internet

4934
03:05:59,920 --> 03:06:00,880
activity.

4935
03:06:00,880 --> 03:06:01,439
>> Uh yeah.

4936
03:06:01,439 --> 03:06:02,720
>> Yeah. The internet connectivity. I'm

4937
03:06:02,720 --> 03:06:04,319
sorry. It'll be hardwired.

4938
03:06:04,319 --> 03:06:07,200
>> So then like you mean like fiber optic

4939
03:06:07,200 --> 03:06:10,399
cable or whatever internet is available

4940
03:06:10,399 --> 03:06:12,399
at that location.

4941
03:06:12,399 --> 03:06:15,120
>> So I think that if you if it is fiber

4942
03:06:15,120 --> 03:06:16,720
then you would the installation would

4943
03:06:16,720 --> 03:06:18,960
require trenching and possibly boring in

4944
03:06:18,960 --> 03:06:22,319
a public right of way.

4945
03:06:22,319 --> 03:06:24,800
Well, it it'll depend on what service is

4946
03:06:24,800 --> 03:06:27,840
available to that location.

4947
03:06:27,840 --> 03:06:30,399
>> Okay.

4948
03:06:30,399 --> 03:06:32,000
>> So,

4949
03:06:32,000 --> 03:06:32,479
>> yeah.

4950
03:06:32,479 --> 03:06:34,000
>> I'm just wondering if it's

4951
03:06:34,000 --> 03:06:36,319
>> it's actually what was said before. It's

4952
03:06:36,319 --> 03:06:37,520
wireless.

4953
03:06:37,520 --> 03:06:38,160
>> Wireless.

4954
03:06:38,160 --> 03:06:41,200
>> It'll be wireless. I apologize.

4955
03:06:41,200 --> 03:06:42,560
>> Originally, it was

4956
03:06:42,560 --> 03:06:50,469
>> okay. So, cellular. Is it 4G LTE or 5G?

4957
03:06:50,479 --> 03:06:52,960
Yeah, it it's a secure uh line. We're

4958
03:06:52,960 --> 03:06:55,840
not I'm not sure the exact um type

4959
03:06:55,840 --> 03:06:57,359
>> secure line like a dedicated network

4960
03:06:57,359 --> 03:06:58,960
slice or

4961
03:06:58,960 --> 03:07:01,840
>> I again that's not my expertise.

4962
03:07:01,840 --> 03:07:03,359
>> Okay.

4963
03:07:03,359 --> 03:07:05,359
Um the reason I'm asking is because the

4964
03:07:05,359 --> 03:07:07,439
infrastructure could determine if you

4965
03:07:07,439 --> 03:07:09,760
need additional application elements. So

4966
03:07:09,760 --> 03:07:12,000
like if you're going to ask for fiber,

4967
03:07:12,000 --> 03:07:13,760
it requires trenching. That might be

4968
03:07:13,760 --> 03:07:15,680
outside of the purview of our approving

4969
03:07:15,680 --> 03:07:18,960
the application. Um, I'm also just kind

4970
03:07:18,960 --> 03:07:21,520
of interested in the up link and the

4971
03:07:21,520 --> 03:07:22,720
down link, but I have a feeling that's

4972
03:07:22,720 --> 03:07:23,840
probably too technical a question.

4973
03:07:23,840 --> 03:07:26,560
>> Yeah, it is. It It's It is. And And just

4974
03:07:26,560 --> 03:07:27,760
to answer the question, whatever

4975
03:07:27,760 --> 03:07:28,960
utilities are required, like any

4976
03:07:28,960 --> 03:07:30,319
application that comes before this

4977
03:07:30,319 --> 03:07:33,520
board, if we're required to uh stub them

4978
03:07:33,520 --> 03:07:35,760
in from the street, we'd be subject to

4979
03:07:35,760 --> 03:07:37,040
whatever the requirements are for

4980
03:07:37,040 --> 03:07:38,479
repaving and patching

4981
03:07:38,479 --> 03:07:39,520
>> permits and all of that.

4982
03:07:39,520 --> 03:07:41,359
>> Oh, of course. Road opening permit. And

4983
03:07:41,359 --> 03:07:43,520
also 520 is a county road, so I think

4984
03:07:43,520 --> 03:07:45,279
we'd need county approval as well.

4985
03:07:45,279 --> 03:07:46,640
>> Okay.

4986
03:07:46,640 --> 03:07:48,479
Thank you.

4987
03:07:48,479 --> 03:07:50,160
>> Okay. Any other questions from the

4988
03:07:50,160 --> 03:07:50,479
board?

4989
03:07:50,479 --> 03:07:53,120
>> Yes. Um during which hours will this uh

4990
03:07:53,120 --> 03:07:55,279
billboard be lit?

4991
03:07:55,279 --> 03:07:57,760
>> Um as per the settlement agreement, it's

4992
03:07:57,760 --> 03:08:00,640
going to be lit um beginning at 5:00

4993
03:08:00,640 --> 03:08:02,960
a.m. and ending at midnight.

4994
03:08:02,960 --> 03:08:05,920
>> Ending at midnight.

4995
03:08:05,920 --> 03:08:09,040
>> Okay. And uh before you testify that

4996
03:08:09,040 --> 03:08:10,880
you're taking all the measures you can

4997
03:08:10,880 --> 03:08:13,520
to um follow Dark Sky guidance, it has a

4998
03:08:13,520 --> 03:08:15,359
bunch of mitigating concerns. One of the

4999
03:08:15,359 --> 03:08:17,200
mitigating concerns I read from them is

5000
03:08:17,200 --> 03:08:20,800
to have it off um entirely uh one hour

5001
03:08:20,800 --> 03:08:23,840
before sunrise and um let's see what

5002
03:08:23,840 --> 03:08:25,760
else they say.

5003
03:08:25,760 --> 03:08:28,319
>> Yeah. until basically dust till till

5004
03:08:28,319 --> 03:08:31,520
dawn. And then the um or or the town

5005
03:08:31,520 --> 03:08:34,080
zone or the burough zone ordinance is I

5006
03:08:34,080 --> 03:08:37,680
believe from 11:00 p.m. to 7 a.m. And so

5007
03:08:37,680 --> 03:08:41,520
would you consider a condition to um

5008
03:08:41,520 --> 03:08:44,960
comply with dark skies one hour before

5009
03:08:44,960 --> 03:08:47,920
sunrise instead of the 12 to 5?

5010
03:08:47,920 --> 03:08:50,240
>> So the the short answer is is that we're

5011
03:08:50,240 --> 03:08:52,240
here as a this is not a fresh hearing

5012
03:08:52,240 --> 03:08:54,399
where we are proposing a new use out of

5013
03:08:54,399 --> 03:08:56,880
the blue. We are here as part of a

5014
03:08:56,880 --> 03:08:58,640
settlement negotiation for the pending

5015
03:08:58,640 --> 03:09:01,680
litigation. This was negotiated at

5016
03:09:01,680 --> 03:09:03,600
length

5017
03:09:03,600 --> 03:09:06,000
with the board through Kevin and this is

5018
03:09:06,000 --> 03:09:07,920
where both parties came to and agreed

5019
03:09:07,920 --> 03:09:10,560
to. And just to correct you if I may, I

5020
03:09:10,560 --> 03:09:12,880
don't believe that the timing that you

5021
03:09:12,880 --> 03:09:14,880
referenced is a mitigating factor, a

5022
03:09:14,880 --> 03:09:16,800
generally accepted principle. I think

5023
03:09:16,800 --> 03:09:17,920
instead that was one of the

5024
03:09:17,920 --> 03:09:19,760
recommendations that again are not real

5025
03:09:19,760 --> 03:09:20,960
regulations. They're just

5026
03:09:20,960 --> 03:09:24,479
recommendations. So, right now the

5027
03:09:24,479 --> 03:09:27,439
application is for as was a

5028
03:09:27,439 --> 03:09:29,120
conditionally agreed to before we came

5029
03:09:29,120 --> 03:09:32,640
here, which is midnight to 5:00 a.m. it

5030
03:09:32,640 --> 03:09:33,760
will be off.

5031
03:09:33,760 --> 03:09:36,560
>> Okay. So, it's it's fair to say that it

5032
03:09:36,560 --> 03:09:39,279
being lit at midnight and at 5:00 a.m.

5033
03:09:39,279 --> 03:09:40,720
>> won't be lit at midnight. It'll be off

5034
03:09:40,720 --> 03:09:41,439
at midnight.

5035
03:09:41,439 --> 03:09:46,399
>> 11:59 we'll call it. Um is would not be

5036
03:09:46,399 --> 03:09:48,000
uh following Dark Sky recommendations.

5037
03:09:48,000 --> 03:09:50,880
Right. Again,

5038
03:09:50,880 --> 03:09:52,800
that one recommendation would not be

5039
03:09:52,800 --> 03:09:53,600
followed.

5040
03:09:53,600 --> 03:09:55,040
>> I wouldn't say generally we're not

5041
03:09:55,040 --> 03:09:57,359
following the recommendations.

5042
03:09:57,359 --> 03:09:57,760
>> Okay.

5043
03:09:57,760 --> 03:10:00,000
>> But again, we never

5044
03:10:00,000 --> 03:10:01,439
I I'll just state it again for the

5045
03:10:01,439 --> 03:10:03,439
record. We never said we were dark sky

5046
03:10:03,439 --> 03:10:06,000
compliant. And we also recognized that

5047
03:10:06,000 --> 03:10:09,200
the bureau has not adopted dark sky as a

5048
03:10:09,200 --> 03:10:11,279
requirement, which is very diff which is

5049
03:10:11,279 --> 03:10:12,800
very different than recommending it in a

5050
03:10:12,800 --> 03:10:14,560
master plan and it never materializing

5051
03:10:14,560 --> 03:10:16,640
into an ordinance. And just for the

5052
03:10:16,640 --> 03:10:21,200
record, I think, and I'm going back

5053
03:10:21,200 --> 03:10:23,040
eight, nine months, so I I might be

5054
03:10:23,040 --> 03:10:26,160
wrong, but I think in round one when we

5055
03:10:26,160 --> 03:10:29,040
were talking about 187, Shauna, there

5056
03:10:29,040 --> 03:10:31,520
was definitely a condition of I think a

5057
03:10:31,520 --> 03:10:34,560
longer time frame when it would be shut

5058
03:10:34,560 --> 03:10:38,960
off. And I think we had attempted in our

5059
03:10:38,960 --> 03:10:41,760
negotiations to have a similar time

5060
03:10:41,760 --> 03:10:46,319
frame on this. And as I recall, um, that

5061
03:10:46,319 --> 03:10:48,479
was not part of the, uh, settlement

5062
03:10:48,479 --> 03:10:51,439
agreement at first. And I think we, as I

5063
03:10:51,439 --> 03:10:55,600
recall, we pushed and countered, and then it came

5064
03:10:55,600 --> 03:10:58,479
up with this

5065
03:10:58,479 --> 03:11:00,479
medium proposal, so to speak. That's my

5066
03:11:00,479 --> 03:11:01,040
recollection.

5067
03:11:01,040 --> 03:11:02,240
>> Right. Originally, as part of the

5068
03:11:02,240 --> 03:11:03,680
proposal, we weren't suggesting to turn

5069
03:11:03,680 --> 03:11:05,760
it off at all because again, it's in

5070
03:11:05,760 --> 03:11:08,240
your business district and it's exactly

5071
03:11:08,240 --> 03:11:10,479
where these types of signs should be if

5072
03:11:10,479 --> 03:11:13,120
they were to be anywhere. Um, and yes,

5073
03:11:13,120 --> 03:11:15,279
it was a concession, a mutual concession

5074
03:11:15,279 --> 03:11:18,479
between the board and uh the applicant

5075
03:11:18,479 --> 03:11:19,680
with the five.

5076
03:11:19,680 --> 03:11:22,160
>> I think there was, again, I don't want

5077
03:11:22,160 --> 03:11:24,479
to I mean, everything's on on the table,

5078
03:11:24,479 --> 03:11:27,600
so to speak, but I think there was a

5079
03:11:27,600 --> 03:11:30,479
bigger concern with the 187 because of

5080
03:11:30,479 --> 03:11:33,120
the residential development at

5081
03:11:33,120 --> 03:11:35,200
>> directly across the street. And again,

5082
03:11:35,200 --> 03:11:36,640
Kevin, as it relates to everything on

5083
03:11:36,640 --> 03:11:38,000
the table, I think we talked about

5084
03:11:38,000 --> 03:11:39,359
certainly there can be additional

5085
03:11:39,359 --> 03:11:41,920
conditions imposed, but the settlement

5086
03:11:41,920 --> 03:11:43,840
can't be disregarded as a negotiated

5087
03:11:43,840 --> 03:11:46,479
conditional settlement either that was

5088
03:11:46,479 --> 03:11:48,319
conditionally agreed upon by all of the

5089
03:11:48,319 --> 03:11:50,479
parties. I I think it would be in bad

5090
03:11:50,479 --> 03:11:52,399
faith to now try and renegotiate those.

5091
03:11:52,399 --> 03:11:54,000
>> I I think it was just a question and I

5092
03:11:54,000 --> 03:11:56,080
think it's a fair question and then

5093
03:11:56,080 --> 03:11:58,319
we'll we'll, you know, can discuss in a

5094
03:11:58,319 --> 03:12:02,150
little bit.

5095
03:12:02,160 --> 03:12:03,760
Okay. Any other questions from the

5096
03:12:03,760 --> 03:12:06,160
board?

5097
03:12:06,160 --> 03:12:08,479
>> Yeah. Um, sorry.

5098
03:12:08,479 --> 03:12:10,319
>> Oh, I thought you had your hand up.

5099
03:12:10,319 --> 03:12:11,920
>> I do. I'll wait. I'll wait till you were

5100
03:12:11,920 --> 03:12:13,439
done. I thought that I didn't I wanted

5101
03:12:13,439 --> 03:12:14,800
to make sure the chairman wasn't closing

5102
03:12:14,800 --> 03:12:16,800
everything down.

5103
03:12:16,800 --> 03:12:18,640
>> I was worried about

5104
03:12:18,640 --> 03:12:20,800
>> So, I understand um we we talked a bit

5105
03:12:20,800 --> 03:12:24,319
about glare um in in your testimony and

5106
03:12:24,319 --> 03:12:27,200
uh we do have an ordinance that

5107
03:12:27,200 --> 03:12:28,800
discusses

5108
03:12:28,800 --> 03:12:30,800
glare in distracted driving. I

5109
03:12:30,800 --> 03:12:33,520
understand this is also um part of New

5110
03:12:33,520 --> 03:12:38,160
Jersey Department of Transit and so you would comply with all of their uh

5111
03:12:38,160 --> 03:12:40,720
regulations. I understand that. But um

5112
03:12:40,720 --> 03:12:46,160
our ordinance also involves the uh

5113
03:12:46,160 --> 03:12:50,399
sorry what let me try to find the

5114
03:12:50,399 --> 03:12:51,920
exact language for you because I don't

5115
03:12:51,920 --> 03:12:58,870
want to mess it up. But

5116
03:12:58,880 --> 03:13:01,040
yes, so it says, "No sign shall be

5117
03:13:01,040 --> 03:13:02,640
maintained at any location where by

5118
03:13:02,640 --> 03:13:04,399
reason of its position, sign, shape,

5119
03:13:04,399 --> 03:13:06,000
content, or color, it may be in the

5120
03:13:06,000 --> 03:13:08,240
opinion of the chief of police obstruct,

5121
03:13:08,240 --> 03:13:10,240
impair, obscure, interfere with the view

5122
03:13:10,240 --> 03:13:11,760
of, or be confused for any traffic

5123
03:13:11,760 --> 03:13:14,399
control, sign, signal, or device, etc."

5124
03:13:14,399 --> 03:13:17,439
All that is to just say, have you um

5125
03:13:17,439 --> 03:13:18,800
gotten the opinion of the chief of

5126
03:13:18,800 --> 03:13:21,760
police on your proposal?

5127
03:13:21,760 --> 03:13:24,479
So I believe that

5128
03:13:24,479 --> 03:13:26,000
the application will be submitted to

5129
03:13:26,000 --> 03:13:27,760
outside agencies. I don't know if it's

5130
03:13:27,760 --> 03:13:29,760
the general practice for the board to

5131
03:13:29,760 --> 03:13:31,359
send it out to outside agencies. That

5132
03:13:31,359 --> 03:13:33,600
issue certainly can be something that

5133
03:13:33,600 --> 03:13:36,000
can be done.

5134
03:13:36,000 --> 03:13:39,040
It was sent to him. So he did not have

5135
03:13:39,040 --> 03:13:40,960
any comment apparently.

5136
03:13:40,960 --> 03:13:44,469
>> Okay.

5137
03:13:44,479 --> 03:13:46,399
» And if I could revisit the Vshape again.

5138
03:13:46,399 --> 03:13:48,800
So the um Vshape was for the two

5139
03:13:48,800 --> 03:13:51,600
billboard faces, but the um the circus

5140
03:13:51,600 --> 03:13:53,439
liquor sign is not a Vshape, right?

5141
03:13:53,439 --> 03:13:55,439
Those are correct. That's parallel. It's

5142
03:13:55,439 --> 03:13:58,720
That's right. back to back.

5143
03:13:58,720 --> 03:14:00,560
>> Okay. Any other questions from the

5144
03:14:00,560 --> 03:14:04,229
board?

5145
03:14:04,239 --> 03:14:05,200
» Oh, okay.

5146
03:14:05,200 --> 03:14:08,239
>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um going back

5147
03:14:08,239 --> 03:14:11,680
to the crane test. So,

5148
03:14:11,680 --> 03:14:13,840
is this sort of how back in the day uh

5149
03:14:13,840 --> 03:14:15,840
there were balloon tests for the cell

5150
03:14:15,840 --> 03:14:18,720
towers? So, the day of the crane test, I

5151
03:14:18,720 --> 03:14:20,880
mean, let me let me backtrack. Is you

5152
03:14:20,880 --> 03:14:22,960
said there's a flag raise. Is it a big

5153
03:14:22,960 --> 03:14:25,279
fat flag? How does it how does it handle

5154
03:14:25,279 --> 03:14:28,960
wind? I mean, how accurate can we

5155
03:14:28,960 --> 03:14:31,520
>> hung from the crane? So, it's kind of

5156
03:14:31,520 --> 03:14:34,560
like a like a chevron sign that you see

5157
03:14:34,560 --> 03:14:36,960
on the on the roadway with with diagonal

5158
03:14:36,960 --> 03:14:39,520
slashes on it. And it's it's about 10

5159
03:14:39,520 --> 03:14:42,319
feet tall and it's probably about two or

5160
03:14:42,319 --> 03:14:44,640
three feet wide. And they hang that from

5161
03:14:44,640 --> 03:14:47,840
the crane and they place it at the edge

5162
03:14:47,840 --> 03:14:50,479
of the sign that you want to want to I

5163
03:14:50,479 --> 03:14:52,720
guess build off of from an exhibit

5164
03:14:52,720 --> 03:14:54,640
standpoint that you want to judge the

5165
03:14:54,640 --> 03:14:56,720
sign by. You don't want to write middle

5166
03:14:56,720 --> 03:14:58,720
because it's hard to tell exactly where

5167
03:14:58,720 --> 03:15:00,000
that middle is depending on your

5168
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:03,439
perspective. So in this case it was hung

5169
03:15:03,439 --> 03:15:07,359
at the southern edge of the sign

5170
03:15:07,359 --> 03:15:09,040
at the at the height at the proposed

5171
03:15:09,040 --> 03:15:13,760
height. Um and that way the renderer can

5172
03:15:13,760 --> 03:15:16,160
take those photos and see where that

5173
03:15:16,160 --> 03:15:19,680
edge of sign is and then superimpose the

5174
03:15:19,680 --> 03:15:21,680
image of the render of the of the sign

5175
03:15:21,680 --> 03:15:25,359
there. and also for the the outfront

5176
03:15:25,359 --> 03:15:28,560
team on the day of that test can also

5177
03:15:28,560 --> 03:15:30,640
drive around and say is this the

5178
03:15:30,640 --> 03:15:33,120
appropriate height for this sign? Um

5179
03:15:33,120 --> 03:15:36,080
does it higher? Does it does it be

5180
03:15:36,080 --> 03:15:38,399
lower? Can it be lower? Um so those are

5181
03:15:38,399 --> 03:15:41,520
the kinds of things to look at.

5182
03:15:41,520 --> 03:15:43,439
>> Were you present on the day of the

5183
03:15:43,439 --> 03:15:44,560
>> He's not on this.

5184
03:15:44,560 --> 03:15:47,279
>> Thiago from his firm was were you?

5185
03:15:47,279 --> 03:15:48,720
>> Yeah, Andrew was present. if you have

5186
03:15:48,720 --> 03:15:50,239
any questions about the conditions at

5187
03:15:50,239 --> 03:15:51,040
the time.

5188
03:15:51,040 --> 03:15:53,040
>> Um,

5189
03:15:53,040 --> 03:15:58,000
okay. Uh, so is I mean who is someone so

5190
03:15:58,000 --> 03:16:00,720
is the testimony from this team that

5191
03:16:00,720 --> 03:16:03,120
this is generally speaking what the sign

5192
03:16:03,120 --> 03:16:05,520
will be you know their location is as

5193
03:16:05,520 --> 03:16:07,439
accurate as accurate as possible.

5194
03:16:07,439 --> 03:16:10,640
>> I've witnessed other tests

5195
03:16:10,640 --> 03:16:13,920
um but I know um Mr. Harvey has been at

5196
03:16:13,920 --> 03:16:17,200
numerous tests and is out front. It's

5197
03:16:17,200 --> 03:16:20,000
something they've routinely done um

5198
03:16:20,000 --> 03:16:23,439
previous to crate

5199
03:16:23,439 --> 03:16:25,200
balloon test as well. I think the crane

5200
03:16:25,200 --> 03:16:27,120
test is a lot more exact. You could put

5201
03:16:27,120 --> 03:16:28,399
a ruler on everything that you're

5202
03:16:28,399 --> 03:16:30,560
measuring and be confident as to where

5203
03:16:30,560 --> 03:16:33,040
it is in two dimensions over the site.

5204
03:16:33,040 --> 03:16:36,000
>> Have you ever after the fact after the

5205
03:16:36,000 --> 03:16:38,479
billboard is installed gone back and

5206
03:16:38,479 --> 03:16:41,120
looked at these uh exhibits and compared

5207
03:16:41,120 --> 03:16:44,319
it to what you see out there? or has

5208
03:16:44,319 --> 03:16:44,880
somebody

5209
03:16:44,880 --> 03:16:46,800
>> I personally have not.

5210
03:16:46,800 --> 03:16:48,560
>> So, it's your testimony that this is

5211
03:16:48,560 --> 03:16:50,399
accurate, but you've and they're very

5212
03:16:50,399 --> 03:16:53,279
accurate, but nobody's looked at it.

5213
03:16:53,279 --> 03:16:56,000
>> Well, no.

5214
03:16:56,000 --> 03:16:58,640
>> Dan Dan said he never looked at said

5215
03:16:58,640 --> 03:17:00,560
nobody's ever looked at it. So,

5216
03:17:00,560 --> 03:17:04,160
>> so I'm not usually tied into um that

5217
03:17:04,160 --> 03:17:06,800
aspect. As an engineer, if we were asked

5218
03:17:06,800 --> 03:17:09,120
to confirm the location of the sign,

5219
03:17:09,120 --> 03:17:11,279
we'd send a survey crew out and they

5220
03:17:11,279 --> 03:17:13,760
would physically survey the sign to make

5221
03:17:13,760 --> 03:17:16,319
sure it matched the height, elevation,

5222
03:17:16,319 --> 03:17:18,160
and two-dimensional location that's on

5223
03:17:18,160 --> 03:17:20,479
the plan or if there was any deviation.

5224
03:17:20,479 --> 03:17:22,000
But I wouldn't go out and just look at

5225
03:17:22,000 --> 03:17:23,920
it and come to a conclusion because

5226
03:17:23,920 --> 03:17:25,920
frankly I myself.

5227
03:17:25,920 --> 03:17:28,720
>> Okay. And then

5228
03:17:28,720 --> 03:17:31,920
the photos are all along Newman Spring

5229
03:17:31,920 --> 03:17:34,160
Road. is that because there was no

5230
03:17:34,160 --> 03:17:39,920
concern about the residents then the the closest residents and what that type

5231
03:17:39,920 --> 03:17:42,239
of visual impact might be. So, so again,

5232
03:17:42,239 --> 03:17:45,120
I wasn't there, but I do know that um

5233
03:17:45,120 --> 03:17:47,520
Thiago, my my associate from from

5234
03:17:47,520 --> 03:17:51,279
Dynamic Thiago Dwart, um he did go and

5235
03:17:51,279 --> 03:17:52,720
take a couple pictures from different

5236
03:17:52,720 --> 03:17:54,399
locations that he couldn't see the crane

5237
03:17:54,399 --> 03:17:56,160
from those locations. So, it's hard to

5238
03:17:56,160 --> 03:17:58,720
even say when you go to that location

5239
03:17:58,720 --> 03:18:01,120
where the sign is when you can't see it

5240
03:18:01,120 --> 03:18:03,040
um or where the crane is, but there was

5241
03:18:03,040 --> 03:18:06,080
some exploratory exploring around. and

5242
03:18:06,080 --> 03:18:08,800
you take a look at the agreement um and

5243
03:18:08,800 --> 03:18:12,239
certainly any sign it it we we weren't

5244
03:18:12,239 --> 03:18:14,720
trying to make it an invisible sign. So

5245
03:18:14,720 --> 03:18:16,720
we're not saying that it will be

5246
03:18:16,720 --> 03:18:19,439
invisible from varying locations. What

5247
03:18:19,439 --> 03:18:20,880
we need to demonstrate is that there

5248
03:18:20,880 --> 03:18:23,840
will be no substantial light impact from

5249
03:18:23,840 --> 03:18:26,239
it to those various locations which is

5250
03:18:26,239 --> 03:18:29,040
done visa v the knits as well as the

5251
03:18:29,040 --> 03:18:30,960
foot candles and the fact that it would

5252
03:18:30,960 --> 03:18:34,720
be zero at those locations. So again,

5253
03:18:34,720 --> 03:18:37,520
the the whether or not you can see the

5254
03:18:37,520 --> 03:18:40,080
sign, they can also see the circus sign

5255
03:18:40,080 --> 03:18:42,080
potentially if they could see our sign,

5256
03:18:42,080 --> 03:18:44,720
the current one. There's no obligation

5257
03:18:44,720 --> 03:18:46,560
to make a sign invisible. There's an

5258
03:18:46,560 --> 03:18:48,319
obligation to make sure that there's no

5259
03:18:48,319 --> 03:18:50,960
substantial impact as it relates to the

5260
03:18:50,960 --> 03:18:52,399
lighting.

5261
03:18:52,399 --> 03:18:53,840
>> And I recognize that and I'm not

5262
03:18:53,840 --> 03:18:55,040
suggesting that the sign would be

5263
03:18:55,040 --> 03:18:57,200
visible. I'm saying first of all I want

5264
03:18:57,200 --> 03:19:04,399
to make sure that the of the accuracy of the exhibit and up until

5265
03:19:04,399 --> 03:19:06,399
tonight we didn't have any information

5266
03:19:06,399 --> 03:19:09,600
on how the exhibit was prepared. That's

5267
03:19:09,600 --> 03:19:10,319
the first part.

5268
03:19:10,319 --> 03:19:12,560
>> The crane test photos with you either no

5269
03:19:12,560 --> 03:19:14,720
one of you. I'm happy to share the crane

5270
03:19:14,720 --> 03:19:16,720
test photos with you.

5271
03:19:16,720 --> 03:19:17,920
>> I I

5272
03:19:17,920 --> 03:19:19,600
>> they're the same photos that you see.

5273
03:19:19,600 --> 03:19:20,720
It's just that the crane

5274
03:19:20,720 --> 03:19:22,399
>> the crane instead of the

5275
03:19:22,399 --> 03:19:25,120
>> digitally removed from the photo.

5276
03:19:25,120 --> 03:19:27,040
I would really like to see that. Happy

5277
03:19:27,040 --> 03:19:29,200
to. That would answer a lot of the

5278
03:19:29,200 --> 03:19:32,399
questions, I think, potentially.

5279
03:19:32,399 --> 03:19:32,560
Do

5280
03:19:32,560 --> 03:19:34,560
>> you have any photos of what the sign

5281
03:19:34,560 --> 03:19:35,840
looked like from the baseball field

5282
03:19:35,840 --> 03:19:38,960
that's about 50 yards from there?

5283
03:19:38,960 --> 03:19:41,520
>> I I do not. I do not. We We have these

5284
03:19:41,520 --> 03:19:43,600
that we ran. I know they went to a

5285
03:19:43,600 --> 03:19:44,960
couple of residential neighborhoods to

5286
03:19:44,960 --> 03:19:47,279
look for for evidence, but again, I was

5287
03:19:47,279 --> 03:19:51,590
not there. So,

5288
03:19:51,600 --> 03:19:53,200
» so,

5289
03:19:53,200 --> 03:19:55,760
and I know you weren't there.

5290
03:19:55,760 --> 03:19:58,640
Will the do the photos that are going to

5291
03:19:58,640 --> 03:20:01,520
be provided, do they show anything from

5292
03:20:01,520 --> 03:20:03,680
the residential neighborhoods that you

5293
03:20:03,680 --> 03:20:06,800
can't see the sign or is are there any

5294
03:20:06,800 --> 03:20:07,920
photos from the residential

5295
03:20:07,920 --> 03:20:10,160
neighborhoods or there was

5296
03:20:10,160 --> 03:20:12,399
>> we talked about this and the the the

5297
03:20:12,399 --> 03:20:14,319
problem with doing that is is that if I

5298
03:20:14,319 --> 03:20:15,760
brought a photo from a residential

5299
03:20:15,760 --> 03:20:17,520
neighborhood

5300
03:20:17,520 --> 03:20:19,040
Then the then the question would be,

5301
03:20:19,040 --> 03:20:20,239
well, what about their second floor

5302
03:20:20,239 --> 03:20:22,080
bedroom? And then the question would be,

5303
03:20:22,080 --> 03:20:23,920
what about the house next door? What

5304
03:20:23,920 --> 03:20:25,840
about the house next door to that? We

5305
03:20:25,840 --> 03:20:27,840
can't go into their homes or onto their

5306
03:20:27,840 --> 03:20:29,760
properties. We can only be at the street

5307
03:20:29,760 --> 03:20:31,200
right ofway, which is going to be a very

5308
03:20:31,200 --> 03:20:33,279
different view from where it would be to

5309
03:20:33,279 --> 03:20:35,520
those homes. What we can tell you is is

5310
03:20:35,520 --> 03:20:37,920
that traveling on the right of way, the

5311
03:20:37,920 --> 03:20:40,160
crane was not visible from any vantage

5312
03:20:40,160 --> 03:20:42,319
point that we were at from those

5313
03:20:42,319 --> 03:20:45,040
residential neighborhoods.

5314
03:20:45,040 --> 03:20:47,920
We can't give you a viewpoint from every

5315
03:20:47,920 --> 03:20:50,800
home in every residential neighborhood.

5316
03:20:50,800 --> 03:20:53,359
It it and I know this to be a fact. You

5317
03:20:53,359 --> 03:20:55,520
weren't at the last meeting I was. When

5318
03:20:55,520 --> 03:20:57,279
we did show photos from various

5319
03:20:57,279 --> 03:20:59,840
homeowners property lines, we got

5320
03:20:59,840 --> 03:21:01,120
challenged. Well, what about the one

5321
03:21:01,120 --> 03:21:02,880
next door? What about the one behind it?

5322
03:21:02,880 --> 03:21:04,720
Well, that's not a fair representation.

5323
03:21:04,720 --> 03:21:07,600
So there is no exhibit I can give you

5324
03:21:07,600 --> 03:21:09,439
that will satisfy you that it will not

5325
03:21:09,439 --> 03:21:11,359
be seen from that there will be no

5326
03:21:11,359 --> 03:21:13,520
residential home that it will be seen

5327
03:21:13,520 --> 03:21:19,279
from. What we can offer is is that

5328
03:21:19,279 --> 03:21:21,439
the light from it will not have

5329
03:21:21,439 --> 03:21:24,080
substantial intrusion in any residential

5330
03:21:24,080 --> 03:21:26,160
home.

5331
03:21:26,160 --> 03:21:27,600
But I do think it's important to

5332
03:21:27,600 --> 03:21:29,439
establish that the light there will not

5333
03:21:29,439 --> 03:21:31,920
be substantial intrusion of light to the

5334
03:21:31,920 --> 03:21:34,560
park where it's probably the busiest

5335
03:21:34,560 --> 03:21:36,080
park in Mammoth County quite frankly.

5336
03:21:36,080 --> 03:21:36,319
Yeah.

5337
03:21:36,319 --> 03:21:38,080
>> So when the sporting events are going on

5338
03:21:38,080 --> 03:21:39,200
>> Yeah. I would I would say

5339
03:21:39,200 --> 03:21:41,279
>> confirm that

5340
03:21:41,279 --> 03:21:45,670
our narrow view technology

5341
03:21:45,680 --> 03:21:49,200
» dimensions in three dimensions in in in

5342
03:21:49,200 --> 03:21:52,800
going sides of the stium where we limit

5343
03:21:52,800 --> 03:21:55,040
that's a hard cap.

5344
03:21:55,040 --> 03:21:57,279
They won't be able to see this sign.

5345
03:21:57,279 --> 03:21:58,880
>> They'll see the structure. They won't be

5346
03:21:58,880 --> 03:21:59,920
able to see the message

5347
03:21:59,920 --> 03:22:03,439
>> only within this cone. I was asking

5348
03:22:03,439 --> 03:22:06,239
>> all the way out here

5349
03:22:06,239 --> 03:22:08,399
be able to see the light that's on the

5350
03:22:08,399 --> 03:22:10,080
pan

5351
03:22:10,080 --> 03:22:23,269
cone is what our where our narrowology.

5352
03:22:23,279 --> 03:22:24,960
And then looking south, kind of very

5353
03:22:24,960 --> 03:22:26,640
similar with the neighbors here to the

5354
03:22:26,640 --> 03:22:29,760
south. Laurel Street is all out of that

5355
03:22:29,760 --> 03:22:32,160
cone. Henry Street is all out of that

5356
03:22:32,160 --> 03:22:35,920
cone. I mean, this line projects down

5357
03:22:35,920 --> 03:22:38,080
>> residential property and head street.

5358
03:22:38,080 --> 03:22:40,720
>> Now you're talking like that are

5359
03:22:40,720 --> 03:22:43,040
>> right. Then you're more railroad.

5360
03:22:43,040 --> 03:22:43,840
>> There's trees.

5361
03:22:43,840 --> 03:22:45,840
>> That would my concern is if you could

5362
03:22:45,840 --> 03:22:47,520
see it from the park. And if you're

5363
03:22:47,520 --> 03:22:49,279
saying the cone is where you can see the

5364
03:22:49,279 --> 03:22:51,279
sign, you can't see it from the park.

5365
03:22:51,279 --> 03:22:52,239
>> All right. Well, you can see the

5366
03:22:52,239 --> 03:22:54,800
structure. You just can't see the map.

5367
03:22:54,800 --> 03:22:56,479
>> And also if you look at the picture of

5368
03:22:56,479 --> 03:22:58,319
500 feet traveling westbound, you look

5369
03:22:58,319 --> 03:22:59,760
at the size of that

5370
03:22:59,760 --> 03:23:01,680
>> 500 feet and you extrapolate around

5371
03:23:01,680 --> 03:23:02,239
that.

5372
03:23:02,239 --> 03:23:02,640
>> Correct.

5373
03:23:02,640 --> 03:23:04,239
>> This thing's going to be about this big.

5374
03:23:04,239 --> 03:23:06,720
>> Correct.

5375
03:23:06,720 --> 03:23:07,840
>> Okay.

5376
03:23:07,840 --> 03:23:09,200
>> Which was the purpose of this?

5377
03:23:09,200 --> 03:23:10,880
>> Any more questions from the board?

5378
03:23:10,880 --> 03:23:14,239
>> Uh yes. So the in the performance

5379
03:23:14,239 --> 03:23:18,319
standards um 10A on on your site design.

5380
03:23:18,319 --> 03:23:19,760
I might have an older copy in front of

5381
03:23:19,760 --> 03:23:25,120
me. I apologize. So, it says that um for

5382
03:23:25,120 --> 03:23:28,000
ordinance 490-54C11,

5383
03:23:28,000 --> 03:23:29,920
uh there shall be no direct or sky

5384
03:23:29,920 --> 03:23:32,720
reflected glare. Um it says it complies

5385
03:23:32,720 --> 03:23:34,960
with the first part of it. Now, the

5386
03:23:34,960 --> 03:23:36,960
second part of it is on intense glare

5387
03:23:36,960 --> 03:23:39,120
and it says it's not applicable. Could

5388
03:23:39,120 --> 03:23:41,120
you speak to why it's not applicable?

5389
03:23:41,120 --> 03:23:43,040
>> Just where are you reading from the plan

5390
03:23:43,040 --> 03:23:44,160
or the

5391
03:23:44,160 --> 03:23:46,479
>> I'm reading from uh

5392
03:23:46,479 --> 03:23:48,160
>> probably your response letter would be

5393
03:23:48,160 --> 03:23:52,880
my guess. No, it would be

5394
03:23:52,880 --> 03:23:54,960
I apologize. I don't have the um it's

5395
03:23:54,960 --> 03:23:56,800
the site plan sheet number three.

5396
03:23:56,800 --> 03:23:59,120
>> Oh, okay. Oh, so so performance

5397
03:23:59,120 --> 03:24:01,040
standards note 10. Sorry, I wasn't

5398
03:24:01,040 --> 03:24:02,399
following as you were. I wasn't

5399
03:24:02,399 --> 03:24:03,359
following it.

5400
03:24:03,359 --> 03:24:05,200
>> It's note 10 and which which one? A or

5401
03:24:05,200 --> 03:24:06,000
B?

5402
03:24:06,000 --> 03:24:13,429
>> A.

5403
03:24:13,439 --> 03:24:15,920
Any operation or activity producing

5404
03:24:15,920 --> 03:24:18,479
intense glare shall be conducted so that

5405
03:24:18,479 --> 03:24:20,560
direct and indirect illumination from

5406
03:24:20,560 --> 03:24:23,600
the source of light shall not cause

5407
03:24:23,600 --> 03:24:26,880
illumination in excess of 0.1 ft candle

5408
03:24:26,880 --> 03:24:29,279
in residential districts. So we probably

5409
03:24:29,279 --> 03:24:34,160
put said NA for that init or no we say complies for that right or no we

5410
03:24:34,160 --> 03:24:35,840
probably put NA for that because it's

5411
03:24:35,840 --> 03:24:38,000
not in a residential district but that

5412
03:24:38,000 --> 03:24:40,080
was part of my testimony anyway that

5413
03:24:40,080 --> 03:24:44,160
>> we comply So

5414
03:24:44,160 --> 03:24:48,960
this is the point 0.0. So just inside of

5415
03:24:48,960 --> 03:24:52,399
this envelope is 0.1

5416
03:24:52,399 --> 03:24:55,040
and there's the the there's not any

5417
03:24:55,040 --> 03:24:56,399
residential district where that's

5418
03:24:56,399 --> 03:24:57,760
distributed to.

5419
03:24:57,760 --> 03:24:58,080
>> Okay.

5420
03:24:58,080 --> 03:25:00,160
>> In either misspelled.

5421
03:25:00,160 --> 03:25:02,640
I apologize that it says NA there.

5422
03:25:02,640 --> 03:25:04,239
Probably misinterpreted that one. Didn't

5423
03:25:04,239 --> 03:25:07,279
we drafted the plans?

5424
03:25:07,279 --> 03:25:09,040
>> Okay,

5425
03:25:09,040 --> 03:25:11,520
last one. Any questions from the board?

5426
03:25:11,520 --> 03:25:14,479
Any questions from the public for this

5427
03:25:14,479 --> 03:25:16,880
witness?

5428
03:25:16,880 --> 03:25:20,080
Okay, we'll close that public portion

5429
03:25:20,080 --> 03:25:24,950
>> and we're done with this guy.

5430
03:25:24,960 --> 03:25:26,560
» Done with him.

5431
03:25:26,560 --> 03:25:28,960
>> Could I would ask that we carry this

5432
03:25:28,960 --> 03:25:30,720
without the need for further notice. I

5433
03:25:30,720 --> 03:25:32,239
do understand that my planner was

5434
03:25:32,239 --> 03:25:34,160
negotiating a date based on her

5435
03:25:34,160 --> 03:25:37,600
availability and that the date may be

5436
03:25:37,600 --> 03:25:40,319
October 1st. So, is that an available

5437
03:25:40,319 --> 03:25:43,830
date?

5438
03:25:43,840 --> 03:25:45,520
Do we do we have anything about in

5439
03:25:45,520 --> 03:25:49,190
September?

5440
03:25:49,200 --> 03:25:50,880
» I I don't Is that the date you were

5441
03:25:50,880 --> 03:25:56,630
asking for, Christine, or no?

5442
03:25:56,640 --> 03:25:58,399
» Okay.

5443
03:25:58,399 --> 03:25:59,680
>> And I know you're thinking about the

5444
03:25:59,680 --> 03:26:02,720
judge wanting this to be handled in an

5445
03:26:02,720 --> 03:26:04,000
expedited manner.

5446
03:26:04,000 --> 03:26:05,520
>> And we don't want to have the situation,

5447
03:26:05,520 --> 03:26:07,520
Mr. Mass, where the judge demands that

5448
03:26:07,520 --> 03:26:09,200
we stay till 2 in the morning and our

5449
03:26:09,200 --> 03:26:11,040
eyes are open. I understand that. But at

5450
03:26:11,040 --> 03:26:12,160
the same time,

5451
03:26:12,160 --> 03:26:12,720
>> I know

5452
03:26:12,720 --> 03:26:15,120
>> after 10:00 and like I said,

5453
03:26:15,120 --> 03:26:16,080
>> and we started at 6,

5454
03:26:16,080 --> 03:26:19,120
>> they're all volunteers and a lot of them

5455
03:26:19,120 --> 03:26:21,760
work work jobs during the day and it's

5456
03:26:21,760 --> 03:26:23,279
been a long day. So,

5457
03:26:23,279 --> 03:26:25,439
>> I'm agreeing with you.

5458
03:26:25,439 --> 03:26:27,680
>> So, October.

5459
03:26:27,680 --> 03:26:29,279
Yeah.

5460
03:26:29,279 --> 03:26:32,239
>> All right. So, uh Jennifer, uh assuming

5461
03:26:32,239 --> 03:26:34,560
that we have a motion, do you consent to

5462
03:26:34,560 --> 03:26:36,000
extend the time frame within which the

5463
03:26:36,000 --> 03:26:38,399
board has to act on this application? of

5464
03:26:38,399 --> 03:26:41,200
course through the meeting following the

5465
03:26:41,200 --> 03:26:42,560
October 1st meeting.

5466
03:26:42,560 --> 03:26:44,479
>> Perfect. So, Mr. Chairman, if it's

5467
03:26:44,479 --> 03:26:46,239
acceptable to the board, we'll have a

5468
03:26:46,239 --> 03:26:49,439
motion to carry this application to

5469
03:26:49,439 --> 03:26:54,160
October 1st, 2026, 6:30 p.m. without the

5470
03:26:54,160 --> 03:26:57,200
need for any further public notice. Um,

5471
03:26:57,200 --> 03:26:58,960
if that we can have a motion of

5472
03:26:58,960 --> 03:27:02,870
>> I will make that motion.

5473
03:27:02,880 --> 03:27:04,160
» And Tori,

5474
03:27:04,160 --> 03:27:04,880
>> yes.

5475
03:27:04,880 --> 03:27:05,760
>> Raymond Mass,

5476
03:27:05,760 --> 03:27:08,000
>> yes. Greg Fitzgerald, yes.

5477
03:27:08,000 --> 03:27:09,040
>> John Gild,

5478
03:27:09,040 --> 03:27:10,080
>> yes.

5479
03:27:10,080 --> 03:27:11,120
>> Vincent Light,

5480
03:27:11,120 --> 03:27:11,520
>> yes.

5481
03:27:11,520 --> 03:27:12,560
>> Paul Kagno,

5482
03:27:12,560 --> 03:27:12,960
>> yes.

5483
03:27:12,960 --> 03:27:14,399
>> Eugene Harowitz,

5484
03:27:14,399 --> 03:27:15,040
>> yes.

5485
03:27:15,040 --> 03:27:16,080
>> Chris Havens,

5486
03:27:16,080 --> 03:27:16,479
>> yes.

5487
03:27:16,479 --> 03:27:18,239
>> Darthy Ceruo.

5488
03:27:18,239 --> 03:27:20,399
>> And Jennifer, just for recordeping

5489
03:27:20,399 --> 03:27:22,399
purposes, I think you know, in the

5490
03:27:22,399 --> 03:27:24,160
absence of extraordinary circumstances,

5491
03:27:24,160 --> 03:27:26,640
you have one witness left.

5492
03:27:26,640 --> 03:27:28,880
>> Yes.

5493
03:27:28,880 --> 03:27:31,120
>> And you're going to send the the photos

5494
03:27:31,120 --> 03:27:32,640
from the crane test also? I

5495
03:27:32,640 --> 03:27:34,720
>> am. Thank you. I'm going to send you the

5496
03:27:34,720 --> 03:27:37,040
naked crane and then I'm going to send

5497
03:27:37,040 --> 03:27:39,200
you the ones with the crane embedded in

5498
03:27:39,200 --> 03:27:41,359
the sign to show that it's perfectly

5499
03:27:41,359 --> 03:27:44,479
lined up in height and southern edge.

5500
03:27:44,479 --> 03:27:46,080
>> I thought it might having the crane in

5501
03:27:46,080 --> 03:27:47,520
it might have been confusing to the

5502
03:27:47,520 --> 03:27:48,800
board, but I'm happy to give it to you

5503
03:27:48,800 --> 03:27:49,439
as backup.

5504
03:27:49,439 --> 03:28:09,750
>> Thank you.

5505
03:28:09,760 --> 03:28:11,439
that we want the applicants to submit

5506
03:28:11,439 --> 03:28:13,520
prior to the hearing. Obviously, the

5507
03:28:13,520 --> 03:28:18,550
crane test pictures.

5508
03:28:18,560 --> 03:28:21,920
If somebody thinks of something, contact

5509
03:28:21,920 --> 03:28:24,399
me. Not reply all. I mean, not copy

5510
03:28:24,399 --> 03:28:25,920
everyone and I I will reach out to Miss

5511
03:28:25,920 --> 03:28:26,800
Primka.

5512
03:28:26,800 --> 03:28:27,279
>> Okay.

5513
03:28:27,279 --> 03:28:29,040
>> To the extent we can do it, we're happy

5514
03:28:29,040 --> 03:28:31,840
to. We we we rocked quite a bit on the

5515
03:28:31,840 --> 03:28:34,080
nets, so we'll try to do better next

5516
03:28:34,080 --> 03:28:34,560
time.

5517
03:28:34,560 --> 03:28:35,520
>> Great. Thank you.

5518
03:28:35,520 --> 03:28:38,000
>> I feel like I need a lice comb for that.

5519
03:28:38,000 --> 03:28:41,279
>> Motion to adjurnn.

5520
03:28:41,279 --> 03:28:46,550
>> Oh,

5521
03:28:46,560 --> 03:28:49,520
» and made the Tory.

5522
03:28:49,520 --> 03:28:52,080
>> Second.

5523
03:28:52,080 --> 03:28:54,239
>> All in favor?

5524
03:28:54,239 --> 03:28:57,239
I