Everybody welcome This is Monday August 24th As I speak very slowly so the mayor
can get back to his seat Thank you Welcome And I'll call us to order And if you
please rise and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
Republic for which it stands One nation under God Indivisible with liberty and
justice for all
Thanks so much We have all City Council members in attendance tonight so that's
exciting We'll move on to number four which is approval of our agenda Does
anybody have any changes or additions or I would look for a motion to approve
So moved approve
Can you give that to Ron Is that a second Second Is that okay
Any last comments or questions
All those in favor of tonight's agenda please say aye
Aye
Any opposed Agenda passes Move on to five which is our proclamations and
recognitions And we do have a special night tonight So I'll hand it over to our
fire department and Chief Warner and others
Good evening Well this past year
Oh my gosh
Good evening Council president council mayor administrator staff family and
fellow firefighters Tonight we're introducing to you Assistant Chief Fire
Assistant Fire Chief Grady Nelson He's assigned to the task of emergency
management for the city and professional standards within the fire department He
has successfully passed his probation and is a valued member of the team Grady grew
up in Red wing and is a fourth generation Red wing resident Grady holds a Bachelor
of Science in Political science from the University of Wisconsin River falls a
Master of Public administration from Hamline University and an associate of
Applied Science and Paramedic Fire Science as well and recently attained an Associate
in Applied Science and Emergency Management from the Hennepin Technical
Community Or I'm sorry College Grady has been with the Red Wing Fire Department
since 2019 and before that he actually served in the capacity and administration
at city since 2015 He also worked for the Savage Fire Department and a Maplewood
Fire Department as a firefighter paramedic When I asked Grady what he wanted why he
wanted to be in the fire service he stated red wing fires a paid on call in 2019 and
just fell in love with the work The significance of the work and the direct
service provided by the fire and EMS is incredibly fulfilling Additionally Grady's
grandfather was also a volunteer firefighter with the Red Wing Fire
Department Grady is supported by his family his wife Therese or children
Charlie Megan Teddy and Grady's wife will pin his badge on tonight
Congratulations Congratulations
Congratulations
Thank you And now on to our next
No speech
Next I want to introduce Brad Parlier Brad has recently successfully passed probation
which including passing this paramedic certification Brad is assigned to be chief
with the fire department Brad grew up in Wanamingo Brad was homeschooled by his
parents all the way through high school He earned a Bachelors of Science and Health
and Human Services or sorry Health and Human Sciences from the University of
Minnesota Rochester Brad didn't have any prior experience before joining Red wing
This is something he takes pride in as he learned everything about the fire and EMS
service from his co-workers here at Red wing From day one he witnessed a level of
care and excellence and pride in his job When I asked Brad why he wanted to join
the fire service he said he wanted to be part of something greater than himself He
mentioned that he goes through fire No pun intended Together as a team responding to
calls for service with the people of Red wing followed by his peers next to him
Brett is supported tonight by his wife Connie and their three children Noah Luke
and Stella His parents and co-workers at Red Wing Fire His wife is going to pin his
badge on tonight
Congratulations
Thank you
Good job
Thank you Counsel
Thank you so much
We'll move on to number six which is our Red Wing Legacy Choir presentation So I'll
wait for them to file out and a few ladies And maybe if there's gentlemen also please
come up
Good evening My name is Liz McGill I am the executive director of the Red Wing
Area Seniors or pier 55 We are here tonight to introduce our Red Wing Legacy
Choir Chorus We have a couple people passing out some information to the
audience and I think you guys all got them Um we are a division of giving voice
giving voice started as a grassroots project here in Minnesota about 14 years
ago by a group of women and one man who had family members who were diagnosed with
Alzheimer's but they discovered they still loved to sing and they were very
interactive and were really enjoyed singing And so they started the first
giving voice choir that has now grown to We are now an international program that
was based out of here in Minnesota last fall the Mayo Health um Rural Health
Initiative put out funding for four new rural programs And so I heard of that
funding and I thought that sounds very fun And I was trying to grow programs at the
Red wing area seniors being I was very new there And so I applied for the funding and
found out a couple of months later that we were one of four choirs chosen to expand
in rural Minnesota It was like us and there's one up north and a couple others
So we were very excited to get that funding to kick off our first season So
what it is is we have three different sessions in a year We have a spring a
summer and a fall And there are 10 to 12 week sessions And we choose a different
theme kind of every year every session for our choir We try to find songs that are
I'll show tune based very popular songs songs that people with dementia are going
to be able to recall maybe from their childhood or just sing with the family
those type of things I want to note too that we are not just a dementia friendly
choir Anyone who loves to sing can join us We have some folks that have traumatic
brain injuries We have folks who simply just want to sing We have folks like
myself who were asked when the choir started by our musical director juicing
alto soprano and I said I don't know and I don't think we've ever discovered yet What
I do I just show up and sing and bring the snacks which is very important So we are a
very low barrier Um choir we have there's our our quote is there's no wrong in the
room And we just we just want people to show up and enjoy our choir
So this Wednesday we are kicking off our first mini concert I call it a mini
concert because typically when we would have our concerts we'd have about ten
songs ready to go Like I said we just started this summer so we're going to have
four songs ready to go And as we were moving through our our songs and
everything I thought how fun would it be if we could sing before the Red Wing Arts
concert in the park Like what a fun audience that would be So I called up the
very nice ladies at Red Wing Arts and I said hey I have this idea And they said
sure And it happened to be the local hooligans And I'm like very cool And so I
was very excited and then found out that they are the local hooligans heard about
us and our mission and they said don't sing before us We'll take a longer
intermission and sing during our performance So we are so thrilled that the
Red wing arts and the local hooligans embraced us that way So we'll be there
Wednesday night We'll be singing approximately 7454 of our songs and we
really hope all of you can make it Um I want to introduce like I said earlier my
role is very administrative I write the grants I will be writing more grants now
because our first grant cycle is done Um I do the organizing of it the marketing of
it that type of thing Buy the snacks That is actually part of the choir Every
rehearsal is snack time at the end And um but Stephanie Nolton is our musical
director She's absolutely amazing and she is so organized It's really nice for me to
stay organized with her And then um Candace Bean is our pianist She is not
here this evening but she is the one who keeps us all in tune And then we have a
few members of our chorus with us tonight too So they are the true magic of it I
just try and keep it organized and like I say write the grants So we really hope you
guys can make it Wednesday night at the park Bring your chairs and some of it will
be a sing along We will let you know But I know you all know the song so I'm gonna
turn it over to Stephanie now Thank you
Hello and thank you so much for allowing us to speak to you about the Red Wing
Legacy chorus It's been such a pleasure to work with the men and women who have
joined us to start our adventure this summer On the music and rehearsal side of
things As Liz said our motto is there is no wrong in this room We're here to bring
joy just through the fun of music and singing and through my experience here in
Red wing as well as with another dementia friendly choir I have had experience with
in the Rochester area I have found that this model really gives people living with
memory loss a beautiful dignity and purpose in this season of life We're
currently working on songs like Ben E King's Stand By Me and Louis Armstrong's
What A Wonderful World both of which do trigger existing memories for our singers
How amazing it is that music is so closely connected to brain health and can improve
the quality of life of so many people right here in Red wing I'd like to leave
you with a song that sums up our motto This was written by one of the founding
dementia friendly choir directors David Moore And it goes like this
There's no wrong in this room There's no wrong in this room There's no wrong in
this room Just music joy and cookies
In the words of one of our singers I've always enjoyed singing Here's a new
opportunity to meet new friends and share our music with you We hope you'll join us
and sing along on Wednesday evening at the park Thank you for your time
Thank you so much
Thank you If I could just add one last thing We are always encouraging new
members If you know somebody who is diagnosed with dementia if you know
somebody who's a family member or caregiver of dementia if you know somebody
who just loves to sing if you want to just join us 10 to 1130 Wednesdays at Red Wing
Area Seniors or pier 55 we will be starting our fall session in the end of
September Thank you
Thank you
All right We are now at the public comment section number seven on our agenda tonight
Each person is allowed one time of up to three minutes to speak on agenda items and
one time of up to three minutes to speak on non agenda topics We have started a new
process using comment cards and I will start by calling the card numbers of those
who wish to speak on non-agenda items and then we'll move on to agenda items If you
want to speak would have not filled out a comment card yet You can pick one up on
the lobby or actually they'll be up here by the box and then you will put it in the
box So sorry for that Again you'll just come up and I'll call you and you'll come
up and grab a card fill it out and put it in the box when you come up We'll work on
that Michelle
Um when you come up to the podium please drop your card in the box again and then
state your name and what city you live in If you can share what ward or street name
neighborhood you live in Red wing we'd appreciate it Remember that personal
attacks and comments related to political campaigns are not permitted and may be
ruled out of order The Council welcomes all perspectives and appreciates your time
and attending tonight So it looks like I have three for non agenda items Um signed
up right now
So we'll have some more So how about the first number one If you want to come up
please and introduce yourself again
Good evening My name is Stephanie Rogers and I am the executive and artistic
director of the Anderson Center at Tower View here in Red wing I live in Ward one
precinct two I am here today on behalf of the Anderson Center's Public Artist
Residency program and our collaborators the Public Artist Residency Program
launched in 2021 It builds on the Anderson Center's long standing Artist in Residence
program providing additional financial and administrative support to enable an artist
to co-create a significant public artwork with Red wing community members Past
public art residents include muralist Camila Leyva who worked with Hispanic
Outreach and other community groups on the Plant Wisdom mural across from Liberty's
and statue Jones who stand in the shadows etched the shadows of historic black
residents of Red wing into our sidewalks Anderson Center's 2025 and 2026 Public
Artist residency is Doctor Margaret Pierce a map maker and Citizen Potawatomi tribal
member I'm here today in my role as the project manager for the Red wing
installation of her national project Mississippi Dialogues Pierce is the lead
artist Prairie Island Indian Community Tribal Historic Preservation Office and
Ho-Chunk Nation tribal Historic Preservation Office are important
collaborators Our proposal for a public art installation in Red Wings Colville
Park also includes the artistry of Red Lake Nation woodcarver Ben Spears
There's information in your status report today about the packet or about the
project which is being financed entirely through Non-city funds Um many of them
private sources and prestigious national grants including a 2025 MacArthur
fellowship for Pierce a 2026 Creative Capital Award and a Blandin Foundation
grant to Prairie Island Indian Community also provided significant funding for the
local portion of this project As you review the materials we have provided
you'll note that there's a budget for maintenance funds to be transferred to the
city along with the gift of the artwork Our intention is to formally bring this to
the next council meeting on September 14th for your consideration and approval Both
myself and Margaret Pierce who will speak during the virtual comment period wanted
to join you today to call your attention to the upcoming project and proposal which
has been in discussion with relevant commissions and staff members for several
years In the meantime if you have any questions about this project please don't
hesitate to reach out to me about Mississippi Dialogues All of my contact
information is on the Anderson Center website Thank you
Thank you so much
All right Do we have our second speaker tonight
Hi Danny Howdy Neal Street Um this is probably too little too late but I just
want to make a comment on what went on here earlier with uh money allotted for
the different organizations and such Uh I got some ancient history that I could lay
on you Um years ago there was another car club in town called the Bearing Burners I
don't know if anybody remembers that or not The what The bearing burners Thank you
Um of which I happen to be the president Um we decided to have a car show in
conjunction with uh River City days So we talked to chamber got everything arranged
They gave us Bay Point Park So we fenced it off so that we could charge admission
to the cars and to the spectators Um we bought the awards We hired music a DJ for
music We hired a bus to haul people from Bay point to downtown or out to the mall
out in Burnside
um
and had a very successful show And after the show we gave the chamber back money
and we had enough money to do our next year's show And we did this show for quite
a quite a few years as the Baring Brothers Now it's done by I think the Corvette Club
or something So
I just wanted to let you know that we did this all without money from you guys or
the chamber or anybody We did it on our own nickel
Um we also used to hold dances
uh in the wintertime for the uh what was it called
It escapes me the winter celebration that you all used to have Rivers shiver River
days We had dances raise money there too So these things these organizations can do
things
quite easily I think if they've got good membership they can do it without money
from you all Thank you
Thank you
We have our third public comment for non agenda items
Hello my name is Alex Colley and I'm from Central Park Street near in Red wing Uh I
just want to uh take a moment of your time to air my grievances regarding al P s more
commonly known as flock cameras Uh quite frankly I am just very unhappy as not uh
strong enough word to bring up how I feel about them
They are constantly tracking just normal citizens They have a remarkably high
failure rate for false positives Records can be accessed without a warrant They can
They create their own security issue And in addition to that uh
There are multiple cases across the nation of people being stalked because of these
cameras Uh they are being used as a tool for the stalker So I just want to uh bring
up my uh my issues and concerns Thank you very much for your time
Thank you
All right
I think we have a couple more people that have signed up So do we have a fourth or
fifth that grabbed cards if you want to walk up
If you want to just come up for non agenda items that's fine So
You can just put the microphone down so we can hear you Okay Introduce yourself and
where you live
Here's my card
Do I have to like say my address or just word for it
Perfect
I'm a word for it So first things first I hope everyone had a wonderful summer Um I
hope you all had a nice year
Um to tell you I'm doing great My mom got a surgery She's doing well
Here's what I want to say
Um you were kind amazing articulate smart funny pretty handsome And no matter what
you matter
I hope you're starting to love yourself like I am doing And you're trying to be
the best you can I'm also trying to myself
Um
And also remember you are important Thank you
Thank you
Do we have another non agenda item
You can come up Do we have a fifth Number five Or you can come up and then we'll go
to number six And then I'll let people raise up their hand if you haven't grabbed
the card yet
So just put it up a little bit
All right Uh blank Ward four First I would like to bring up the moment of silence
again I previously asked for one That request was denied and afterwards a rule
was put in place that doesn't allow moments of silence anymore
I'm not bringing this up just to argue about what happened before I'm bringing it
up because when residents make simple requests like that and then responses the
responses to create a rule restricting them I think that it can make people feel
like there's no point in speaking up I'd ask the council to think about whether the
rule is actually necessary or whether there's a way to allow moments of silence
again without disrupting meetings The only other thing I want to talk about is
something I've noticed as a younger person in this community Most people my age don't
even know about city council meetings or that they happen A lot of them probably
don't know that they can come here and speak We're not really taught or taught
how to participate in local government Unless you have a reason to pay attention
to it you might never know what what's happening there Here Um
that means the same small group of people tends to show up Well a huge part of the
community has no clue about the decisions being made that can affect them I think
this city could do more to change that It could be as simple as reaching out to
schools using social media in ways that actually reach younger people or working
with youth youth organizations to explain what city Council does and how people can
get involved If you want more people involved in local government especially
younger people they first have to know what they're invited to be part of And I
think we could do a much better job of making sure they know that Thank you
Thank you
Card number six out there
or people would like to Again anyone wanting public comment on a non agenda
item Okay
Amber Planck Ward four Many people believe that Jesus is coming back So what if Jesus
already came back Only this time his name was pronounced Jesus There's a chance he'd
be sitting in an immigration detention center right now because he wasn't sent
back with papers You ever thought about that Somewhere along the way along the way
we started calling things political I've heard people say I don't do politics and
sometimes I understand that politics can be exhausting Democrats versus Republicans
taxes budgets elections policy those things are all political But you know what
isn't political Caring about people believing a woman has bodily autonomy or
that people shouldn't be called slurs believing that somebody in a wheelchair
should be able to access a public space or that a family shouldn't go hungry that an
immigrant should be treated like a human being or that LGBTQ people deserve dignity
or that someone experiencing homelessness still deserves compassion Those are not
political beliefs That's called humanity And frankly some got way too comfortable
using the word political as an excuse not to get involved with when something
doesn't directly affect us You ain't got to agree with somebody's lifestyle You
don't have to vote like them or share their religion their beliefs their
background You don't even have to like them But at the very least you should
still care when they're basic when their basic humanity is being violated that's
like a bare minimum There are absolutely political questions about how government
should solve problems We can disagree on those That's democracy But whether another
human being deserves dignity doesn't depend on which box you check in a ballot
Now that brings me to something else that should cross political lines the flocks
and the ALP I understand the argument for them If a child is kidnapped or somebody
commits a violent crime we want police to have the tools to help find them But also
that also requires us to ask what happens when the tool is used wrong or when
somebody abuses it In Wisconsin a woman was stopped twice because her vehicle was
flagged with a homicide alert during the second stop Officers drew guns on her
Texas used 83,000 cameras to find one woman accused of having an abortion
nationwide Dozens of law enforcement officials have been accused of abusing the
system including officers using them to track exes and people in their personal
lives And I've seen reports that show that they've been pointed at pools parks and
splash pads That should concern everybody Privacy is not Democrat or Republican
Civil liberties are not left wing nor right wing And asking questions about
surveillance doesn't mean you're anti-police It just means that you pay
attention Red wing is our home and many residents simply don't believe the level
of crime in our community warrants this level of surveillance and Red wing alone
isn't questioning it Communities across the country have ended their use of flock
cameras and alpr over concerns of misuse and data sharing I'm not saying these
cameras have never helped solve a crime I'm asking whether that benefit is worth
the privacy we're giving up in return Just because we can track people doesn't mean
that we should They call them flock cameras people because they think that
we're sheep They think that we're sheep Sheep Thank you Until next time
Thank you
All right Do we have someone with number seven card
Do we have Is that it Okay All right Is there anybody else in the chamber that
would like to provide public comment on a non agenda item Anyone in the chamber I
saw the man in the black and back there first If you want to come up
And please introduce yourself and what neighborhood you live in
My name is Ron Teasdale Some of you out there know me Majority of you don't But as
I look around this room I've been a member of this community longer than anybody in
this room So I've seen a lot of ups and I've seen a lot of downs Right now we have
both ups and we have a lot of downs And it's not just the city not just the city
but our school district has the same has a problem Also
having been in business for as many years as I was I saw people desiring to move to
this community because of the community and because of the education system for
their children They no longer do that So many children from Red wing are gone to
other school districts which is a shame and it's not your problem but I would say
you and the school district together have to work together and figure out a plan to
improve
what what's being taught and handled in that school district And as far as as far
as the city council
you have problems too You've got many problems and a lot of them throughout the
community
It's a well known fact that you have a money problem not just income but but what
you're spending on and how you're spending it and the justifications of what you're
buying
It's not there
And I'm I'm talking about this as somebody that's been in the business for a long
time and knows a lot more about this than what you might think and you have a
problem
and it needs to be looked at And if any of you want to talk to me I'd be happy to
talk to you and have a nice conversation because it it needs to be directed
and I won't take any more of your time But like I said we have a problem And I hate
to see it because it's been my community for a long time Thank you
Thank you
Is there anyone else in the chamber that would like to provide public comment on a
non agenda item
Come on up
Uh my
Name is Mueller and I live on West Avenue Um
I didn't come to comment on this but I would like to express my agreement with
the two people who've spoken and expressed concerns about the spy cameras
Um this is something I've given a bit of thought to and many people have and it's
generated a lot of discussion Um and there are obviously two sides to it but what
strikes me as being very red wing so to speak about the issue is that it doesn't
appear that residents have been asked whether they think this is a good idea or
not whether they want cameras
In the vicinity of their homes or not
Um and as usual I feel that the residents should be consulted about decisions of
this nature And if I'm mistaken if they have been I'd be happy to know that but
I'm not aware of it
Um item number two I have a document to provide to you as an exhibit
It's entitled The Health Effects of Waste Incinerators and it's from the British
Society for Ecological Medicine It's not too long about 70 pages but there are 329
citations Um and this is not the most recent uh report of this nature There are
lots of them that I like to
offer it to you with the request that you read it Particularly since you seem so
determined to take actions that would increase the amount of garbage being
burned in Red wing garbage from Minneapolis garbage from Saint Paul and so
on and so forth Um can I give this to the attorney or
Sure That's fine
Okay
I only brought one printed copy but it's something easily found online
Can can can
We make a copy of it and distribute it Thank you I mean like as in in a packet
It's
it's readily available online Thank you There are several succeeding versions of
it but it's one of the most comprehensive reports that I have seen focused on the
health effects of this which I certainly have had no success over the last 18 or 20
years And um convincing city councils or city staff that this is something that
they ought to be interested in
Um okay I'm I'm done Thank you
Thank you
If you're
in the chambers I would like to provide public comment on a non agenda item
one last time Anyone in the chambers
Then I will move online I think we have one person virtual on a non agenda item If
you'd like to unmute yourself and introduce yourself that would be great
Good evening councilors I'm Margaret Pierce I'm a resident of Rockland Maine
and a citizen Potawatomi tribal member And as Stephanie mentioned I'm the lead artist
on the project called Mississippi Dialogues that is described in your packet
and will be in the status updates at the end of this meeting So Mississippi
Dialogues is a public art project elevating indigenous knowledge and
experience of the Mississippi River through 14 map panels in public parks
along the river from the Gulf to the headwaters And we would like to install
the Premier the first panel installation portraying the stretch of the river
between Hastings and La Crosse in Red Wing at Colville Park on October 1st It's been
my privilege to collaborate on this artwork with Prairie Island and Ho-Chunk
Tippo We first started working on it back in 2019 and then we really got going this
past couple of years after securing the needed funding Some of you already know
about this project from our presentations over the past couple of years including
presentations to the Arts and Culture and Heritage commissions and an evening event
centering Fairy Island elders at the barn at Tower View last year called our
relative haha Wakpa and a Saturday picnic this past June in Colville Park
The installation is two oak structures that look like oversized park signage
standing side by side and the structures hold two map panels each 7.5ft wide by
five feet tall Described describing the river through indigenous voices and
memories through direct quotations from extensive interviews with
Dakota and Ho-Chunk knowledge holders And on the other side of the panels are two
wood artworks by Red Lake Nation artists Ben Spears who also built the structures
So we've been working with Michelle Lacy Pat Ramaker and Steve Cohen to select a
site in the park that would be appropriate for such a work and that doesn't interfere
with existing park usage Last week we made our third presentation in two years to the
Arts and Culture Commission and they voted to recommend approval So as Stephanie
mentioned please reach out with any questions you might have prior to your
formal consideration at the September 14th meeting Meegwetch Thank you
Thank you so much
All right Anybody else last time virtually that would like to provide public comment
on a non agenda item
Please unmute yourself if you'd like to comment on a non agenda item
All right I'm not seeing anybody else So we will move on
There is one
There's a hand up Jean
Oh there we go
Do you want to unmute yourself and introduce yourself please
Deployed
at all
times
for the upstate
Beth I think it's you since I can see your name but you can
I know it's kind of hard to hear you Can you hear
Me Yep You can go ahead
Um I have concerns Um I kind of piggyback off of to Ronnie a little bit here Just
just thinking about things Um in the past when I was um on different committees um
and I'm not speaking of of being on a city committee other committees or other
festival committees Um the funding that was channeled um to help the festivals we
had to actually report back what we did with that funding We also had to have
somebody as a city representative
on the meetings with us As far as the groups we had to keep track of all
receipts and report all receipts We had to do monthly reports back to actually at
that time it was Mark Marshall um
regarding monthly Um but I'm very concerned about money um of how it's being
handled out and the non reports the non receipts Um last fall one of your staff
members actually mentioned that on the funding that was given out that the people
underneath their breath um that person which they were speaking um mentioned that
they didn't have to show receipts Um it's concerning to me regarding the money or
all the money that's that's out there to be had or being given out Um I really
strongly feel that the city council really needs to kind of sit down and put some
policies and procedures in place if they're going to be giving money or big
money Um even if it's 5000 or 2000 or 1000 or whatever Um I think it's very important
that people come back and report you know what They spent the money on what they did
with the money Um I think Ronnie's right I mean we have been really dishing out a lot
of money here Different committees have given money here money there Somebody else
goes some different committee gets money to again Um I think we need to really be
watching all that I think it's very important Um because if you go back and
look at the reports there's been a lot of money that's been given out Um but a lot
of people haven't come back to report what the money was used for
Thank you
All right The last time is there anybody virtually that would like to provide
public comment
All right I think we're going to move on then And we're going to move on to agenda
items And I don't believe we have any cards that were taken for agenda items So
I will start in our chamber Is there anybody tonight that would like to provide
public comment on an agenda item tonight
One last time Is there anyone that would like to provide public comment on an
agenda item
All right Seeing none we'll move on virtually Is there anybody virtually that
would like to provide public comment on a agenda item Please unmute yourself
Anyone virtually that would like to provide public comment on an agenda item
tonight please unmute yourself and introduce yourself
And again I'm seeing nobody else do that So I'm going to close public comment and
move on
Then we're on to number eight which is our consent agenda section And these are items
on the agenda that don't often require require council discussion These items are
routine business non-controversial or have been discussed publicly in the past These
items can be approved by the council all at once unless the Council member
acknowledges that they would like to comment on or discuss any of the items at
tonight's meeting Are there any items that council member would like to pull from the
consent agenda tonight
All right Is there a motion to approve
So moved Second
All right The motion is by Don and a second by Beth
Any last discussion or questions
All right Now we don't have a rock Are we going to do a roll call for these for
consent agenda
Um is that usually
We would do that So would you be prepared to do that
I'm not prepared Um is Melissa on line Melissa is on line
Oh sorry
There we are
There we go Hey Melissa Wonderful to see you So again no last discussion So roll
call vote please
Snyder Hi
there Hi
Cleaver I
I
Lambert
I
Goggin
I
Norton I seven eyes zero nays Motion carries
Thanks Melissa We've now approved all the consent agenda items We'll now move on to
our general business section and the council will address each of these items
separately All input from community members occurred during the public comment
period at the beginning of the meeting so we won't be taking any more comments at
this time
And our first item is nine A which is considering a motion to introduce
ordinance number 241 a rezoning option
All right Thank you Madam Mayor Members of the council I'd like to do a quick
introduction This item This is a recommendation coming from the Planning
Commission to rezone a piece of property within the community The property is
located at 1808 Shakya Street and the rezoning would be from agricultural
residential to single family residential or R1 And just to get us oriented I'll
make sure we understand where this is because this is an area of the city that
we don't deal with a whole lot when it comes to zoning This is an extreme
northwestern portion of the city It's really hard to even show it and show other
um kind of features in Red wing So what you're seeing is a pretty blown out map
here But just to get us oriented real quick downtown Red wing is right here
Highway 60 runs east and west Uh highway 19 heads north here uh by Prairie Island
Then the site that we're talking about is located roughly right in here So the
nuclear power plant right here Uh the casinos up here And so this is a piece of
property that is located again up on Prairie Island Uh so like I said this is
an area that is unusual because of the mix of properties that are owned under trust
with the Prairie Island community and parcels that are also still part of the
city of Red wing Uh so the next maps do show those a little more clearly This is a
blow up the property again this is one 808 Shockey Street That's the area shown in
red Um this is the parcel that's under consideration tonight It's just under one
acre in size The site is currently zoned R residential which means it
only really applies to sites that are rural and that don't have access to public
services In this case this particular site and others around it are provided with
sewer and water service from the Prairie Island community And then the street
Typekit Street itself is not a public street but it is a street that's
maintained and owned by the tribal Council So in the past as we've had these these
matters come forward we have generally interpreted our code to reflect that
because the site does tie into a community system or a community run system that it
would meet the requirements for the R-1 zoning That hasn't always been the case
out here So a lot of this zoning goes back to and predates the Prairie Island system
being installed So with that in place the Planning Commission has been making
recommendations to support Rezonings in situations like this In this particular
situation the property owner is asking for the rezoning to allow for the removal of
the home and to allow new home to move onto this property Without that zoning in
place it would be difficult to build something new and comply with the area
requirements setbacks and all those other much greater standards in the AR district
And again this will allow for basically resetting of a home on the property
consistent with the development patterns that you see in the surrounding
neighborhood The rezoning would allow for a potential resubdivision of the property
or further dividing the property The applicant has not indicated a desire to do
so at this point in time but that has happened in some of these parcels as well
that have been rezoned The last map I wanted to show was just the general zoning
of this area The areas that's shown in the purple kind of cross-hatched color are
parcels that are part of the Prairie Island community The parcels that you see
that are the more yellow and tan color greenish color Those parcels are within
the city of Red wing limits So that includes properties that are zoned AR
which is the lighter green color and then R1 which is the tannish color the purple
ish color there is all uh Um owned by Prairie Island And most of those are
parcels that are split between industrial zoning and some other zoning
classifications So again just to point out this particular parcel in particular we
don't show it highlighted here but it's this parcel right here You can see it's
surrounded by the cursor So as noted in the staff report there have been two
previous rezonings of similar nature to go from R to R1 Those are the parcels to see
here that that are shown that way on the map Uh the other unique thing here is that
these parcels are essentially surrounded by Prairie Island and by tribal lands Uh
again this is a little unusual in terms of how this was um
how this how this what the history of the area is and why the parcels are set up the
way they are Um but again this is I think really allowing the property owner to uh
further re further use the property in a way that's consistent with the character
of the neighborhood So with that the Planning Commission did review the request
On August 18th the Planning Commission unanimously recommending approval of the
Proposal with the findings that are documented in the report I would note
because this is a rezoning it does require a five vote majority of the council to
move this forward And for tonight's we are asking for a first reading of the
ordinance and we'll bring back a second reading if it goes forward with that If
there are any questions I'm happy to answer Any questions from the Council
Any questions for Kyle
I'll look for a motion to approve
I'll make the motion to introduce ordinance number two 414 Series rezoning
1808 Shaker Street from R to R one
I'll second that
Discussion or questions
All right Again the motion is to introduce ordinance number 2414 Series rezoning 1808
Check Street from R to R one All those in favor please say aye
Aye
Any opposed Motion passes seven zero
Didn't it
Did that need a roll call vote because it has to be a super
I think it's an introduction So I was assuming we didn't need that
Okay
Thank you I'm sorry
That's okay
All right Nine B is considering a motion to amend the assessments policy interest
rate methodology
So is this Chris
Actually I think Tony's going to take the bulk of it But as far as an introduction
this is a follow up conversation from last year As you recall we had an assessment um
uh during the assessment uh approval policy There was a concern or a question
about um actually raised by council member Lambert about potentially adjusting the
rate for that particular assessment and the determination at that time the council
was uh um
open to possibly considering it but not on the fly not at that time and requested
that it be added to a future agenda We also talked about it at our annual
workshop which I mentioned earlier this evening at our workshop Um and so this has
been added not as a special request item but as sort of a cleanup and an option for
for your consideration prior to our assessment process which is actually
coming forward probably in the next two meetings here for our 2026 street
reconstruction or not the street reconstruction project actually the alley
construction project Um so in light of that um Marshall put the staff report
together but Tony was going to cover a few of the things from a financial perspective
All right
Thank you
Yeah Thank you Well as you all know um periodically when we do some of these
larger projects uh one of the financing sources is through special assessments And
um we have a couple of those projects coming up this fall yet Um so when we do
levy those assessments we have a policy and we have our ordinance that we follow
which establishes the interest rate for those projects Um so
we've compiled information from other cities across the state of Minnesota on
what their policy does We included that as an attachment And if you have any
questions on that you can let us know But
um
our policy falls in line with what
most other cities do Um there's a little variance across across the board Um but
what we're doing is trying to establish a
a guided policy over time that we can follow Um and what we're doing is So the
reason that we do this is because
we have an interest rate that should any assessed property for any of these
improvements um
not prepay one of the one of the rules and guidelines established in Minnesota law is
to offer the right to prepay but should they not there's a borrowing cost So the
city when we do a project or if we issue general obligation bonds we have borrowing
cost So this policy is meant to cover those borrowing costs for the city That's
why we have it
Um
We follow several criteria Many of the considerations um it's to cover our
financing costs It's out of fairness to property owners So we're not picking and
choosing We're we're following a set policy and offering the right to prepay to
everybody Um
One of the considerations I think that's important to point out also
is if we don't have a interest rate policy such as this we still have borrowing costs
to cover Those borrowing costs would be subsidized likely from the general fund So
to the broader tax base So having an interest applied to the
owner of the improvement is actually an equitable way
to capture that financing source versus subsidizing those borrowing costs from the
general fund and spreading it across the entire tax base essentially Um so we've
provided the attachments Um what we're looking for is any discussion if there is
some sort of proposed change um what the council can do tonight is discuss um and
then the alternatives would be for the council to either take no action to leave
the policy as is currently or if there's discussion to make a motion to change the
interest rate methodology that would be the other direction we could go
So with that I'll be available to take any questions as they come up
Beth Balthazar
Handout I just have some
questions for understanding So in your um in the brief that you gave us you say
state that um
Red wing has one of the lowest assessed rates in Minnesota for street
reconstruction projects at 50% of the cost So of a total cost So if I'm a homeowner a
homeowner right now where things are being reconstructed how am I assessed How do you
forget the interest for amendment How am I assessed
Sure And I'm glad you pointed that out because that is different than the
interest rate the borrowing Right
I just want to understand because when I look at the thing that big sheet you gave
me it says nothing about that
Sure
That's important to point out but it also is a factor consideration okay that you
all should take into account and I'll maybe lean on Zach or Amy potentially to
weigh in on this because they might know more than I do about comparing to other
cities but
we have a total cost of a project and if you have a property that's being improved
we can we can calculate what that cost is to your property Right And so our policy
is to assess half of that improved cost to your property
Half of my piece
Correct
Correct So if there's 100 hundred homes being affected by this I'm going to pay
100th of it but it's cut by 50%
Correct Yep The city will pay 50% of that assessed improvement And then we assess
the other 50% Now that's just a lower formula or percentage to what some other
communities do for their projects
And that's we we take into account the total cost of the project Correct
That's correct Yep
Okay I have more questions but I'll wait
Mayor
So Tony
We What do other cities charge What do other cities charge We're at 50% What are
other cities that you know of charged Is it 75% or is it
Now you're
Really
Trying to pin me down
Just in general
It does vary It depends on the size of the city and what their policy is I think
there are
It's hard for me to give you a number on what some other cities charge Um but 50%
is on the conservative side
Okay That's all I needed right
I think it's fairly typical to see more like 75% Okay Um because the improvement
is going to go to the property owner
Thank you
Sounds like Marshall might have an answer
Is Marshall on Oh
Oh Hi Marshall
I am I am Great to see everybody So if memory serves me correct on that last
question from the mayor I believe it was Kim Busy and I that read a league
conference in Duluth and they asked and it was a conference session on special
assessments and they asked They pulled the room hundreds of people in the room and
said how many people assessed 75% or more of the costs for reconstruction Most hands
went up 50% or more most hands up 50% or less I think it was Kim and I standing
there solely with our hands up So the anecdotal evidence is street
reconstructions are often at 75% or more of the total cost and that's an estimated
cost that can get into great detail with you but I'll leave it at that
Thank you
So
when I look at our policy around interest it talks about the bond buyers index
And so then
I don't know about stuff like that So I look it up and there's tons of bond buyer
indexes Do we use the municipal bonds or which one do we use And it changes from
what I've read daily So how do we
how do we set on this is the rate This is the current rate
If I may
Sure
Yeah Um so the bond buyers index You're right There's a lot of different bond
buyers index The one we're looking at is for the 20 year muni rate which tends to
be and which tends to give uh citizens a benefit from the get go because it's it's
uh it's a double It's similar to what Red wings credit rating and it's a a a a plus
So it's a good rate and it does It fluctuates every day along with any bond
prices in the market So we would technically we just go look on that day
we're going to declare for the assessments pull the bond buyers index from that day
And it doesn't usually deviate substantially over the 30 30 35 days it
takes to get the assessment to the City Council Any other questions I'd be happy
to answer those
So yeah can I keep going
Somebody else says she's on a roll
Well I'm just trying to understand why do why is our policy state that we're going
to choose Um either we're going to use the bonds Um the interest rate for the bonds
that we receive So like this latest one was it was a pretty low rate I mean we
were surprised that it was a lower rate Um but we raise it to to the nearest quarter
percent I get that And then we add the 2% But then in the then it says Or we use the
buyer bond index again rounded up And then we choose whichever is higher Why do we do
that
That is just the methodology that the City Council picked at one moment in time
That's been on It's been part of our policy for over 25 years And that's why we
brought this for the council consideration because we frankly we'll we're happy to
use whatever methodology you'd like us to use We just need to be able to go to the
market and be able to say okay this is the rate that we're benchmarking on Round up
by quarter add 2% add 1% whatever it may be But it just so happens that the bond
buyer's index is usually better than the bond If you just go out for some general
bond because then you get commercial and everything else involved When you're using
a government benchmark they tend to be lower than what you'd see For example bank
rates like we go to bank rate.com and find the bank rate for that day as I mentioned
earlier But it's likely to be higher than the bond buyer's index because bond
buyer's index is strong municipal governments receive that rating Just again
I mentioned Red wing receives that rating So it's just one methodology out of a
million That just so happened the council decided to utilize and and um as as Tony
mentioned there was some discussion about should we change the methodology And you
can see all the varying methodologies in those three pages of that addendum that
got attached to that exhibit There's no real rhyme or reason to it It's just the
one that was selected 25 plus years ago
Anyone else comments Becky
Well yeah I mean I'm glad that this came up And I think that one of the pieces that
might also be missing from this is
there were this is if I'm recalling correctly there were some times when the
bond rating was more or less favorable to let's say the home owner Um and so that
made a difference to if we were assessing it on June versus on October And
ultimately my question is this have we ever done a study of let's say that our
last I don't know five years or 8 or 10 years worth of projects using this formula
if we have what percent of our street reconstruction projects have we
has this method covered So I know that that's a separate question than have we
been paid Because I know sometimes we
people don't pay their property taxes right And so we haven't gotten that money
in So that's not really what I'm looking for I'm really looking for studying this
methodology are we coming out of that 50% benchmark That's what our goal if I'm
understanding correctly that's what our goal is is 50% of the project cost correct
So there's two questions in there
Yeah
The first I'll answer by saying we have used the same methodology for at least the
last 27 years Um the second part is really something Zach's a better expert on but we
set in the fee schedule We set an assessment rate for reconstruction That
rate approximates 50% of the cost per foot of street reconstruction So we've we're
covering two things here One is the assessment rate That's the I'll just call
it Zach can correct me $55 a foot The linear foot And then on top of that we
have that time value of money financing cost which is an interest rate component
that we're discussing now I don't know if that answers the question or not but
Yes and or yes But um I mean we're the write up talks about that We're trying to
if we don't cover enough then it moves towards the other taxpayers And if we
cover too much it's an unnecessary burden on the resident who's paying that So I
guess what I'm asking for is there must be some way to analyze whether we're hitting
the middle
So by definition if we just stick with that 50 if we just stick with my $50 or
$55 per linear foot example that's approximately 50% of the cost So
theoretically we are assessing 50% of the cost because we know how much it costs per
linear foot So we're covering 55% or 50% of the costs on that $55 And we're also
trying to address these other issues like administrative costs recording costs
financing costs all in this interest rate But again there's no
perfect methodology So we're optimistic that um if there's a discussion or debate
there was three pages of different methodologies to really choose from What
finances we're really concerned about is that we just end up with a standardized
methodology Um the preference on that methodology is totally the council's
Don has a question
Um when we when we do a street project whether it's a resurfacing or a complete
reconstruct is the uh the do we base that 50% off the total cost of a reconstruct
the same as a resurfacing
Um I think this is where Zach would be handy
So I can chime in a couple things So when it comes to resurfacing if you're talking
the historically mill and overlays um we don't assess for that at all So there's
zero cost to homeowners Um we only assess for street reconstructs
that cost So it's one correction We generally actually assess for only 25% not
50% in that ballpark I believe uh seventh Street we were actually under 10% largely
because a lot of that right of way was the highway right of way So we're we're fairly
low A lot of communities are probably in that 50% give or take Um but we
assess you can do a bunch of different ways We assess based on our fee schedule
which sets an amount per linear foot which is actually $56 currently So Marshall was
very close We base that on looking at our past projects and kind of setting a rate
rather than doing every single individual project and setting a special assessment
rate for that individual project Um that method I don't think is super common There
are a lot of communities that move it to an even simpler approach and just assign a
assessment amount per lot period So you're not calculating an assessment amount based
on lot sizes and whatnot But we do that and ours is based on frontage of street
that they have generally And it is comprised of both a street assessment
amount And then if homes have their private utility laterals that need to be
replaced their sewer and water that's also assessed So there are separate charges but
in the end they get put into one assessment amount and that is the
assessment amount that is then charged interest
You're talking from the street to the home
From the street to the right away So we don't do work on private property but we
replace their private lateral from our main line to the right of way line
Gotcha
And that's what we charge for If they don't currently meet code which oftentimes
they don't because it's old parts of town Um and so together with the utility
assessment and our street assessment that ends up being around 25% 20 to 25% of our
total costs that we assess for
And is that a 25% rather than the 50% Is that a policy Who who determined 25%
Yeah So I don't know what the year was on our assessment policy but it's several a
few probably as old as the interest rate policy a couple decades old We have an
assessment policy that outlines all that and there's technically three different
methods we use to look at assessment calculations All that's an assessment
policy Let's say if we update it like last year we did update it in our fee schedule
which we
look at our reconstruct data and adjust it if needed and try to stay in line with
that amount
Thank you
Joe Go ahead
No I knew that you had your hand
Oh go ahead
Okay Thank you Um I appreciate all of this conversation And one of the reasons that I
had um asked about this um the interest rate was because residents had come
forward and they made um there were a few different public comments And one of the
things that that I was asking is what is our actual cost
for doing business on this So I understand we're charging the interest rate because
we're getting charged interest rate and I
passing it on But my question is um because now I'm hearing that this has been
going on for 20 some years but um when I did research last September I understand
that there was a revision in uh completed in 2017 So um that's I'm just curious
about what does the city actually need from a resident with the assessment And
that's my question about the interest And so the question for this body is do we
need that extra rounded up and 2% or do we not need that And um particularly when um
folks were talking about if they could go out and refinance it they would have
and they can't afford to do that So here they're stuck with this interest rate And
one of the things I appreciate is that once it's locked in it's locked in which
is which is a double edged sword right So if the interest rates go way down then
they're still locked into that interest rate But if interest rates go way back go
way up then they are still locked in But that's my my ultimate question is what do
we really need and what are we willing What is this body willing to accept or
charge for that
opportunity for the person to have to pay the assessment
And what do we really need
Can I let Ron ask a question Maybe they'll build on it Is that okay Or did you have
or did you even have your hand up
Yeah I did yeah
Would that add on to it or should we let the staff respond to that one
Let let staff respond and then I'll respond
No I I don't know that that was a question directed at finance specifically or staff
I think that was a good way of framing It is as Zach pointed out we're on the very
conservative end of financing and funding These projects were way less than 50% of
the assessed value of the project So it's a financing source that council needs to
consider what our policy is both on the assessed rate as well as the borrowing
rate so that we can do these projects in a sustainable way without placing
too much burden maybe just on overall
General fund tax residents essentially Yeah
Yep
A comment that you know with our low uh assessment to the actual homeowner you
know we're much lower than the norm Our interest rate policy is pretty much right
at the norm you know for all the examples you showed but in relation to your
question residents saying well they go out and refinance it themselves or they could
afford to do it Well the city has to pay upfront costs as well to administer the
bond So if you're going to go and buy by bonds There's administrative costs
associated with doing that just like closing costs and things like that Just
just the same not the same as a mortgage but similar to a mortgage So that's part
of that additional interest rate piece But I think um you know we are very
conservative on what we're charging the the residents to begin with So they're
paying an interest rate on a much lower principal than they would in other
communities So I think I think we're good where we're at
Mayor And then I will go to Kim
I want to say that I have a building on Old West Main And when you redid Old West
Main what I was charged was very very reasonable I think it was 10 or $11,000
for my 60 foot And I thought it was very For what we got out of that on Old West
Main I think it was very very good
Kim And then I think
I'll just
Echo what Ron said You know I think our interest rates are reasonable
for what we do and with what we assess people on projects is way below the norm
Having been at the conference of the League of Minnesota Cities and being the
last men standing
It's like people kind of were amazed So I think we're in the ballpark and we're fair
to our residents
Becky
Well I'll agree with that I think considering that we're at that 25%
assessment rate I don't have an issue so much with this now that I understand a
little bit more But I will say this I'll contrast a little bit I looked at similar
homes and some of the last few reconstruction projects And while it is a
low rate I've thought about what it would do to you know my income having to pay
some of what I was assessed And that would have been a really hard hit for me And
what I think is a pretty modest home Um so in contrast I thought it was it can hit
hard for families but given that um I think that I think I asked the same
question really that Vicki Joe asked which is
what what are we trying to accomplish What is the cost Are we trying to So I I think
there's an ambiguity ambiguity about what the cost is I think that the cost is the
build and the administrative costs and staff time and all the other things that
we do not just how much concrete we pour Right But like Zach said it's also all the
you know the sewer and water and all of those things Um plus the administrative
costs it might not be the borrowing rate that might be a separate thing or it could
be looped into the cost But I think what we should be thinking about is are is the
goal to cover 25% of the total cost which includes administrative And then are we
accomplishing that or is the goal to do 25% of the total cost plus recoup our
borrowing rate And if that's the goal then when we do it internally when we don't do
a bond we would change the line in there that says if it's an internal I think
there is
There's a specific line Um if no debt was issued the rate of interest shall be the
bond buyer's index rounded up But if it's an internally funded no debt then why are
we recouping that interest if we're not trying to recoup that bond again For now I
think because we're at a 25% assessment um which is I agree which is a low assessment
rate though it would feel pretty heavy for for some residents So I'm not advocating
to change that because I think that that you know everybody tips into the pot
That's the other philosophy is that everybody who uses the streets chips into
that pot which is how we're Why it's paid by the taxpayers why the other 75% is paid
by the taxpayers Um so given that I support what we have right now However I
think that this merits some further study What is our objective and then is the
policy meeting that objective
So I just want to clarify something is I mean Tony we assessed 50% do we not
Well as Zach pointed out um 50% is our policy But in practice based on that fee
schedule we're actually assessing quite a bit less more like 25%
But that depends on the project So I mean you have a you have an alleyway If you're
if you're doing an alleyway or something of that nature I would guess that's being
assessed at 50% right
Yeah They have different rates Um yeah
So it's not 25 across the board I mean it can vary
Yeah
They generally end up being fairly low though Um
yeah Not we don't ever really hit 50% or even close to it
Okay
Well does anybody else have any last thoughts or
Actions
To take No action So I want to make sure we didn't move on before
And if we took no action that means it stays in place Correct Okay
All right We'll move on to nine C then which is the 2027 budget discussion
Tony's on the hot spot today
Yeah we really stacked mine back to back here
Thank you Yep You're ready to go
Um I'm going to get this one going from up here And then I'll probably slide back
over just so I'm it's easier to answer questions from over there but I'll just
give the quick overview here Um so 2027 budget We had a workshop On August 3rd How
do I get this
Bottom right corner
Slide show
Thank you Michelle
So 2027 budget update On August 3rd we had a preliminary workshop at which we had a
3.99% levy
So as you see on the top here we were at a 3.99% levy level Um what we've done is we
have some updates here that we can talk about tonight or have further discussion
on where council wants to be Um and then there's some questions to be answered or
discussed Now this is
this is a fluid process as finance says several times I mean there's updates and
changes We're trying to capture some static data here to give you for a one
moment in time shot Um but what I tried to do here that's a little different from
what we included in the staff report is those above the line items there we have
the preliminary proposed and then we have a couple of items that are above the line
Now one of them is a CIP project itself Um that's one that was brought up at that
August 3rd workshop And we had the discussion and that was a redundant
project that simply has been eliminated from the CIP
Um that second item there the miscellaneous changes
That includes dozens probably even a hundred minor changes to the budget minor
little operating things that departments have either requested to add or we've
continued to fine tune And you know a department has said we don't need a couple
of printers or things so that that miscellaneous changes line that is
capturing all of those operating one time specific things and just netting them all
together rather than listing out a hundred separate changes for you So then those are
those are the changes that essentially have been made already Um we have enough
information to factor those in Then there's those below the item changes And
these are things that
need more discussion need more information We don't have final determination on any
of these but we felt like it's an important time that we at least have some
good enough information on all of them and just need to start the discussion on some
of these projects So um we have a couple CIP items that I think Zach will briefly
touch on tonight just for a little more explanation Um
and then the item there for eliminating extra that's one that's been asked for by
council for over a year now We finally we've worked with IntelliSense The
insurance committee has met in August we were able to take a look at the data and
get a pretty conservative So this is a very conservative number and we feel like
it's going to be important for you to keep that number in mind or that part of the
discussion um based on a number of factors that are going to occur We still have a
workshop in August or not August It is August in October October 5th Um that'll
go into this a little more depth but we've done enough legwork to have a number here
to be able to show you the conservative potential impact This number hopefully is
on the high side As far as if a change needed to be made Um so all of this what
it does is it captures where we were at as of publishing this for you last Thursday
which is essentially if we made all these changes now some of which still need to be
determined we're at roughly a 3.5% levy increase
Um
So then what we've done based on the last discussion and Chris will probably chime
in on this point is based on feedback from the August 3rd workshop
We've added in either a 2% preliminary levy increase to offer council flexibility
or a 1% preliminary levy increase for flexibility or the third option that's not
listed here but would just go right from where we left off on the August 3rd
workshop would be to stay at a 3.99% Preliminary levy I think those options are
all things that we should discuss And if there's any other changes or things that
were included in the packet for attachments if you have any of those
questions I'll be ready to answer
And maybe I'll just clarify again to Tony and Chris and Marshall on there So we're
looking at a preliminary levy vote on September 14th So that's why this is
extremely important
Correct
I'll go back to the
With no more workshops between now and then
Correct I'll go back to the
Calendar really quickly
Yes
The next budget date we have is that September 14th And we need to set
preliminary levies for the city And then of course the port and the HRA Um so this
is kind of our last opportunity for direction on what you want prepared um
prior to that meeting
And we can always go lower on a final levy if we need to
Mhm
Yes That's an important consideration
For me too
So we can't go up
Yes
Thank you And then I'll leave That was my last
So if I could play the transition music Tony can go back to his seat I'm going to
say the important piece here is that that that number the 301 is a really good
number for going back to the the group health plan But the piece that really
needs to come at that October So it will be after our setting the preliminary levy
is what are the potential impacts one year down the road So that is um in some ways
it's because of the diligent work of separating out some of the higher cost
claimants And and um you know having that option that has enabled us to get like
last year we wouldn't have gotten that bid It would have been closer to I think it
was over a million in estimates that we had from IntelliSense to to actually add
the currently 37 exempt employees back to the group plan This year the estimate is
301,000 It's doable but then the renewal for the entire group could be significant
Like we could be looking at the 15 20 25% renewal cost So there's a lot more
information that needs to be in front of you before anyone makes a decision on that
For sure
And maybe to piggyback that's one of the important things of the staff survey that
we talked about a little bit today with DDA So yes because I know some people
don't care for it but there might be some employees out there that really like it
too So I think it'll be really important to figure out what our staff needs and
wants So Right
So then the other thing that I think Tony alluded to is a couple of these CIP items
We really haven't had exclusive updates on them And I don't know how much detail you
can provide on the spot Zach But if on the
at least explaining what the $150,000 Broad Street to the crossing improvements
and what that implies for moving forward with grant projects And then secondly the
what the intended purpose of the
2705 Riverfront Trail expenditures were for
Yeah I can give an update I'll just go in the order there So the first one with the
Broad Street railroad crossing uh that one is for the Broad Street railroad crossing
specifically pedestrian focused uh the roadway and all that is fine Um nothing
specifically there Uh this initially kind of came back up I mean it was talked about
throughout the quiet zone process for the last couple decades when that was in the
works And then as we finalized that process um and I believe I talked briefly
about this a couple times in the past when we've talked about the implementation of
this one
Pedestrian improvements are not a specific requirement for quiet zones yet They're
like an ancillary thing Essentially if the railroad thinks it's not good enough they
could require an improvement to be made there But there's not a specific criteria
like there is for the roadway Um and so during our process we they basically did
identify that it's not ideal And if you would look out there you'd probably tell
why there's not enough space The gate arms are in the sidewalks It's not an ideal
crossing for pedestrians And it's a really not great crossing for bicyclists using
the roadway with the turns and access to the trail there Um so it's something just
we leave ourselves a potential risk of losing the quiet zone If for a reason the
railroad were to come back or the Fra in the future and say you know we don't think
this is safe enough So that's just a piece of it But just in general we know that
that's our one and only crossing in the entire downtown corridor It's adjacent to
the Amtrak station The why Potential future uh large residential developments
the Saint James the Riverboats levee park essentially our trailhead to the
Riverfront trail which will tie into the next item So there's a lot of movement
there And from an engineering perspective I believe from a community development
perspective Kyle's been involved in the discussions to um we think it would be a
worthwhile improvement for pedestrians and bicyclists to upgrade that crossing Uh so
that's why that's in there The specific amount is to basically get through a do
the design of the project That would be assuming we go after some grants this fall
which this all kind of implies Um we have a good chance of scoring well on grants
and we have funds this year to do that application process And if we got those
grants typically they're like one and two is out Um depending on the grant So I'd be
looking at a design next year with the implementation in 2028 to utilize grant
funding But grant funding doesn't cover the entire process So you know say next
year's CIP there would be likely another
if it was all city funded probably at least about 350,000 to do the final
construction for the non city match portion So if that's a project that you
want to commit to there's further commitments But unless we want to fund it
all we do need we would need to start and go after the grants and to go after the
grants We need to commit to the project That's what that one's there for Um the
Riverfront trail kind of just alluded to that This this also goes back a few
decades and it has been worked through up to this point with getting it connected to
Bay point getting it connected to Levee Park Just this year finishing up that
connection between Barn Bluff and Covell Park Now the one and only remaining gap is
between Barn Bluff and Levee Park And prior to doing the segment we just
completed that was actually the targeted segment back in the last decade or so And
there's some challenges with that A fair amount of money was spent on a study that
looked at a bunch of aspects regarding the river route and the challenges there and
basically they skipped over that segment tackled the segment that was more doable
immediately So now we're circling back to completing that gap which is why I put it
in there We do also have in my head just thinking towards their other future
projects that it ties into as well Uh the plan that would go along the river has
been identified as going around the wastewater treatment plant on the water
side We're obviously in the midst of talking about that project and just making
sure that if that was the route that that would accommodate it And just talk briefly
with Sean And we think that it it'd probably be fine to accommodate but it's
good to keep in mind that we're not going to cost ourselves more money in the future
by not properly accommodating that or the other reason why I put this in there And
these are just for more feasibility um studies to just get us more on the path to
actually getting something done If we can't go the river route what are our
options In my mind the other option is to go the other way around the bluff It's not
really desired And back in the early 2000 when there was a steering committee and
everything developed that was very specific to a riverfront trail So that's
why that's the preferred option to go on the river But if that were to not be the
desired option potential to go down Fifth Street and connect in through downtown
more or less And if we do that there's likely a chance we'd end up going down
Fifth Street to fourth Street to Potter Street and maybe tying in with say the
Eisenhower Bridge And in 2029 we have plans to reconstruct Potter and Fourth
Street So also wanting to make sure if that was a route that we wanted to pivot
to we don't put in sidewalk and then want to tear that sidewalk out and put in a
trail So just trying to make sure we're forward thinking a bit and covering all
our bases with that feasibility study And that amount would definitely should be
enough to do feasibility study some public engagement to see if public viewpoints
have changed and try to get this to a point where we could make a decision to go
no go after grants or other funding or whatever the next steps would look like
Madam president if I could for sure
Go ahead Marshall
I would just mention there on the list because I placed them on the list because
they do need some more internal dialogue There has also been conversations previous
to the on the rail crossing trying to get that incorporated within the TIF district
and utilizing TIF revenue if there is sufficient TIF revenue to help pay for
that And there's also um we just like a little more time to make sure we don't
have a comprehensive study on that small segment to connect over towards the water
treatment plant So um those are just a couple more considerations More internal
dialogue is necessary on those
Well thank you Question Any other questions or thoughts at this time on the
Cips Maybe we start there
Okay I guess not Is there anything else that we want to cover on that then that we
did on the Cips and
We can go to the next slide
Okay Um
So what we're looking for tonight I guess is any direction on we've tried to
highlight a few of the larger things to keep in mind that still need to be
determined You know if there's a change in group health plan from ICRA or if there's
a few of these CIP projects that need more internal consideration before we're doing
them Um but outside of that I mean there's still our list sort of pending from the
last workshop of potential budget adds to bear in mind Um I don't know the timing of
it but if if or when we have the um
I forget the name of it Mike the
the community risk assessment Thank you for that Um from the fire department Um
there may be a request at some point following that or a consideration to add
some more fire department department personnel um
longevity pay or other you know compensation related adjustments
um funding for community survey in 27 uh we discussed at the workshop funding for
community festivals or special events
Actually I should I should have clarified that this morning that is included in the
budget at or not this community survey sorry
I'm getting confused
Is 15,000
15,000 is included in this These numbers
Yes 15,000 is the amount that is currently in there for
a community survey Now there was some internal discussion on whether or not that
was enough for a um I think it's to do a full comprehensive survey prior to the
strategic We have 15,000 in there for the strategic plan effort
But that's correct
But not the
Not for a
Survey
Community
Survey
Beforehand
So that's that's what this is If we want to do a comprehensive survey before
strategic plan initiative that would be an item that is not currently in there Um we
talked about it earlier this evening at the workshop the funding for community
festivals and events I mean that's a potential ad change I think we got
direction on that
um
dog park That's been another
hot button issue but I don't think we have anything currently in the budget for dog
park so we need more direction or that it's a decision that's going to come after
we're setting a preliminary levy here So it's a it's something to keep in mind
And then on the flip side of that any reductions Um so whether or not we reduce
or eliminate performance pay or other compensation related things deferring
capital projects which you know we've presented a few and if there's any others
we'll continue to have internal discussions on anything in the CIP which
we included as an attachment And I hope you've all had a chance to look through Um
We continue
Every
Day every week to reevaluate those discretionary items and we're factoring
those in Um
We included those reserve amounts for alternative funding strategies Internally
the Capital Project Reserve Fund has a little over 900,000 that if we identify
any of these projects where we can utilize any of those funds we may consider or even
the Green Fund there's some money in the Green Fund And then lastly the policy
change of you know converting all the exempt employees over to the plan And you
know that'll just be a decision that needs both more information coming in October
and then more discussion and consideration on that before we can actually make a
change
But those are important factors to weigh in
I have a question Do you do we have a sheet or a write up on each of those
subjects What the uh reduction would look like
Help me out
The reduction on
If we were to reduce or eliminate performance pay what does that look like
How much are we going to reduce Next one Same the same thing for every one of them
What would that would that would what would it look like
Yeah I can address that So on the first one we haven't done an analysis yet on
we provided one last year And I feel like we could dust that off and it'd be a fair
or close estimate once again Last year in the discussion we reduced it from 5% down
to the four and a half Um 300,000 is jumping to my head right now of what our
annual estimated amount was city wide Okay Um and then as far as those other items I
mean um deferring capital projects or CIP items that's a matter of simply going
through that CIP we provided and seeing if there's any items in there We continue to
have dialogue as staff regularly about different CIP items and where they can
move around or be deferred But we're kind of at a
standstill right now where we feel comfortable with what's in there for both
the five year plan and for 2027 As long as the as far as the work plan goes
Um
Yeah I guess that's all I have to add as far as your questions Is that address
looking for
And Tony maybe again to clarify um you know in past years we've had a lot of
discussion about the ambulance fund and kind of the general you know the balance
reserve transfer taking it from the reserve fund So as of right now with the
numbers again presented we have kind of that ambulance fund large
Addition in there right now That's a no kind of general like fund balance transfer
to help reduce the levy Is that the right way to say it
Um
let me try to address it Maybe a little different way
Okay
Um so we do have two things in there for the ambulance fund We have one which is
the use of the unassigned fund balance That's a one time purposeful transfer
That's to address that pre-existing deficit that is built up over the course
of the last 4 to 5 years So that's one component And then the other component we
do still have that annual transfer
Now I remember the discussion Yeah
Which is a contribution or a subsidy from the general fund to the ambulance fund
That's still at the
um increased amount We've increased or stepped that up over the course of the
last few years to try to prevent that ambulance from fun from going even further
into deficit So we do have both of those pieces in
I remember like about 2 million for both of those
Uh it's actually when you combine both of them it's close to 4 million for a
transfer
Never mind But and I know that's going to be a whole nother discussion but I just
for my mind needed to kind of put that in again
So but only that annual operating amount would be a current year levy or revenue
source right Yep
And that do you know that off the top of your head is it 750
Yes It's still 750,000
Other comments from people Vicki
Joe I've got a few things Um one of the things I'm just thinking about is that
there are going to be additional Medicare and Medicaid cuts after the first of the
year and I anticipate that will impact our ambulance fund again because those
reimbursement rates will go down again So I think we need to be mindful of that as
we are considering because with our aging population and with people not feeling
comfortable or safe going to the doctor regularly I imagine more emergency calls
versus people doing preventive care or ongoing treatment because they can't
afford it And and I'm really mindful of that when we're thinking about this and um
and
transition forward when I was listening to the budget meeting um something that Kim
had said that really is still sitting with me is that we can't I don't remember
exactly how you said it but it was almost like it was glossed over and then somebody
else started talking again But it was something about like making sure that we
have um that the levy when it's when it's set isn't the absolute we have continuing
conversation And I think with all these variables that are in I think it's
incredibly shortsighted to say what we're going to do 3.5 and go down or we're going
to do 3.9 and go down I think it makes way more sense to give ourselves this
opportunity to be aware of what's happening in the bigger world That's going
to definitely impact our ambulance fund and other things that may come in And I'm
also curious about things like I don't know fuel costs because they kind of do
this crazy thing How much is diesel fuel anyway these days How much is that Do you
know how much that is
I don't know what we paid but at the pump it's 537 There you go
Five that I know
So I don't know I'm not really raising my hand to say please don't plow my street in
the winter Um so that fuel cost which is unpredictable at best I think running the
city keeping the city going I think we need to be open minded and say let's start
let's start high and agree that there will be additional things just to give the
assurance that all of these things that are maybes can be effectively worked on
That's my um my ask or recommendation
Beth
I agree with Vicki
I think we said it next week Well the next meeting I won't be at Um but I do agree We
give us
room to work I wouldn't I wouldn't be happy if it were five Whatever is being
suggested but I think we need room to work
And general fine with that to
other people
Ron I'm not in favor of that I mean it's we need to get this down
We need to reduce our spending And that's just where I'm at I can't
I can't go over certainly what what the preliminary was was first proposed by
staff at 3.99 And now we're talking about going even higher
No I can't So any of the additions listed there It's a no for me and several of the
potential budget reductions are a yes for me as well
as for CIP goes Sean We had a report on the athletic field you know the agreement
or whatever Um and we see stuff still in the CIP I know we talked about there's
probably going to be some city costs associated with that Does the CIP reflect
the new agreement with the athletic field the baseball association
Yes The costs in the CIP are outside of the projects that the Baseball Association
is taking on
Any other comments Becky
Well the only comment I agree with setting it high That gives us some room to have
the not high but a reasonable amount that gives a conversation to have between now
and when we actually agree to the to the levy in December The one thing that I feel
really strongly Well actually I'm going to step back with a question Um Chrissy had
mentioned that the renewal rate would be could potentially be high So my
understanding with the insurance is that on occasion 1 or 2 or a few employees can
really sort of have a high claim years And that's what trips the the renewal rate So
I'm I guess I'm I'm confused
that you say that the renewal rate could potentially be really high Is that if
they're bringing us back on on a $300,000
Is there data to support that the renewal rate could potentially be that like
significantly higher or is that just a sort of a guess because you're bringing on
more people Like where where does that risk come from Or is it just an ambiguous
risk
There is data to support that That comes from IntelliSense That's actually the
reason we're having or we're calling for that workshop is to provide some of that
data for you to consider
I guess Yeah Yeah
Madam president
Sir Marshall
Yeah So there's two things going on here So I just want to make sure they're clear
The first is what Tony told you We have reasonable assurance that that number is
uh 300 plus thousand is is a conservative estimate of what it would take to get
everybody on the group health plan 27 with the council administrator is referring to
is what happens in the renewal rate in 28 Once everybody comes back on 27 and you
see the experience of the whole group what happens to the group health plan rates
moving into 28 and beyond Thank you
Yeah And I would just add that that's something that we're further evaluating Um
the insurance committee met in the middle of August here just to get the initial
data And we're working closely with IntelliSense to get a couple different
scenarios But exactly what Councilwoman Naughton is describing We're trying to
evaluate a couple scenarios as far as if
you know almost like a worst case scenario if those high cost claimants go back into
the pool what effect is that going to have on what we need to do with our funding
I know the mayor had his hand up
I used to deal with health insurance for my old company Is this kind of like a
first year We want to get you in at a lower rate and then geez it just happens
to go up you know
Um I won't go too far in depth on this conversation but we talked for a couple
hours about this internally a couple of weeks ago
That was kind of our worry at first too or our suspicion Um we asked a lot of
questions with IntelliSense
shortly I would say no And the reason being is because we're self-insured we are
funding our own insurance Um I think we had the same suspicions that Is this too
good to be true Are we in some way being tricked here into two rosy of a situation
Um there's some other underlying factors but what we still don't have worked out
and what we're going to bring in October is a more
thorough evaluation of our
Census our our people to try to predict whether or not those costs would actually
increase substantially or if we feel like it could be absorbed And again I we've
projected it initially in the 301 000 is hopefully a conservative initial year cost
And then down the road we just we're in the evaluating stages
But and obviously it depends if we have any large claims and we don't know that
Yep We're trying to we're doing predictive analysis on that And IntelliSense is
helping us with that
So thank you
Yep
Any other comments from people
Any other guidance that staff feels like they need
I think we mostly heard that having the flexibility
towards the higher end is where we're comfortable at the moment But I didn't
hear I don't think I wrote down anything for Don or Kim or the mayor
I think what I said at the last meeting was sufficient
Same here
I haven't changed my thought process
Okay
With that I think we have enough direction then
Thank you
Thank you Thank you very much It's a lot of work
Yep All right We'll move on to number ten in our agenda tonight Communication items
and ten A is our Housing and Redevelopment Authority update with Curt
I'll bet you enjoyed staying here all late tonight huh Didn't you put it out the room
Um
thank you for the opportunity to come in front of you and just give you a brief
update about what the HRA has been doing and going to be doing Uh you had a written
report I just want to highlight a couple of things I know we've talked about Jordan
Tower and the big plumbing replacement project that we're doing And it seems like
every time I come I say it's close it's close it's close This time it's actually
really close
We're going to do a pre-construction meeting in the middle of September The
contractor should mobilize to the site by the middle of October and they'll start
ripping and tearing on the ground floor Our main sewer and water lines uh in
November with actual work in residence units starting just after the holidays we
decided to wait till after Christmas and New Year's before we start moving people
around there So that's kind of exciting And then on top of that we had enough
money to do Jordan Tower one We were a little short on our family sites and so we
went back to Minnesota Housing and said would you consider a funding modification
And to our delight uh July their board meeting agreed to that So we now have
enough funding to move forward with the family site project that because of timing
and how very long it takes to get to closing on the financing that will start
probably in 2027 sometime the first quarter maybe uh and finish in 2027 as
well So it's it's been a big project that takes a lot of bandwidth from staff and
we're very close to that So we're excited about that On the voucher side you just
call your attention on the federal vouchers If you've been paying attention
you'll see that that number of utilized vouchers keeps floating downward Right We
used to be 13125 Now we're 119 and that's simply a function of rents increasing and
the federal funding staying static So we can we can't help as many people at a
higher rent than we could before So that's why it's important that the other two
state funded programs are there We use bridges And now to bring it home program
to help try and keep the number of vouchers in our community somewhat steady
So this is a rare case where state funding is helping us moderate the decrease in
federal funding But there's no denying that our waiting list continues to grow
We're now up to 448 people So you know the need is there The resources at the federal
level are staying static at best Luckily the state has come forward but I don't
know how long that will hold either The other thing I would call your attention to
on the on the second page and is kind of exciting is the Jefferson School RFP The
Housing and Redevelopment Authority is considering submitting a proposal along
with Three Rivers Community Action and the HRA commissioners will hear that in a
workshop on September 3rd at 1:00 If any of you would like to attend and be in the
know of what we're proposing there And then the my commissioners will be asked to
either approve submission or reject submission at their regular September 8th
meeting which is just two days before the proposals are due to the port So that's
sort of exciting and I'm happy to answer questions if I can
Any questions Vicki
The date and time and place again uh
For the workshop is September 3rd at 1 p.m. here in council chambers
Okay Thank you
Thank you very much
Thanks so much Have a good night
All right Well we will move on to council comments Tenby Would anybody else like to
share any information
Vicki Joe
I know you have Go ahead I'll be quick
Ladies first
Okay
So I got an interesting call and I guess I might look to the chief for this
particular thing Um there was a woman who decided that the bike trail went all the
way through and came up and over and was at the base of humanity and then was
biking what she thought was a trail which it's not And she was stopped by the police
officer And this officer said oh we do this all the time And so I'm guessing that
that all the time is actually a frequent occurrence So
I mean they probably put an emphasis on it probably more than it actually happens But
there's
quite a few people that drive the wrong way down places they shouldn't The
railroad tracks for instance is one of the places that sometimes people have driven
down We've had a vehicle well a couple vehicles get hit by trains because of it
Mhm So it's not a surprise that somebody drives down a trail Um I wouldn't say all
the time I guess I wouldn't emphasize that but it it occurs
I imagine it does And so um I'm curious
This might be over here now Is there an opportunity for us to maybe do like some
signage trail ends here for now Um and on both sides maybe at Levy on the other side
So people aren't trying to come through thinking hey there's this new trail down
there I'm going to go this way Can we is there How much would that cost And is that
would that would that be helpful That was that was what this person was um inviting
me to bring to this body is to say that it
don't come here private property Stop it Whatever you need to do
Turn around Go back
You know whatever The big hand Stop I don't know if that's an offer that I
wanted to bring that up here because I think it's it's important that people
aren't going where they shouldn't if they don't know that they shouldn't be going
there because this person is an avid biker and was really disappointed And she said
well if I had known I would have turned off and gone down fifth So
Can I can I piggyback on hers I know the mayor had his hand up but um just from
that perspective I would love to see I've been an advocate for more of the sharrows
and the bike ability in our community Maybe there's even some safe routes
funding And so maybe instead of the stop you know don't go here Or maybe in
addition to that is signage that says trail continues this way or or trail
continues on the road And there's more signage that has the Sharrows on the road
because I think the alternative was mapped to sort of zigzag them through town to get
them back onto the rest of the trail by levee until that that piece continues So I
mean I think some signage that would say you know trail continues on the road
Sharrows or more road painting for Bikeability I think drivers need to know
that they're sharing the road with bikers as well So that signage is twofold gets
the bikers in the right spot and helps the drivers not run into them
What she said
Maybe we can get an update on that eventually if that's possible or if it's
already in the plan or if there's money I don't know if somebody wants to respond
Now I know we're putting you on the spot but it's true
Zach's talking to Sean Sean's talking to Zach No
Sean's taking notes
I'm trying to get a better understanding of exactly what we're talking about here
Signage
Know where this incident happened
Oh at the base of
where the trail ends There
The new
Trail The new trail
Okay
Trail bikers are coming from cobble up and over the new trail Okay And then
continuing by what used to be I don't know The name of the place now is Isaac Walton
Yep
Past there and going that way to try to go and continue that
Private road the private road
Wastewater treatment
The gravel road going past treatment plant
Correct Got it And being stopped by police saying hey okay you don't belong here Um
because this is private road So if we could get signage before folks get that
far Uh something saying please turn here Don't go there at the end And also at Levy
So people aren't walking that way either Same sign like please don't go here Turn
around
There's a sign that says Private Road
Does it Oh so whoever's doing that is not reading
I've driven past it When I went fishing down there
Okay
So you're paying attention We didn't We didn't go Admit that publicly Good job
Okay
I'm in the water
Oh my gosh
I think we'll move on to the mayor if that's okay
I don't have anything that's interesting but uh today I saw they're not sentenced
to serve Shawn Correct me again Corrections labor was out trimming at one
of our parks They did an exceptional job I got an opportunity to talk to them and
they all said thanks for the opportunity So they really they really appreciate that
opportunity Now we had a battle of the badges on Saturday and the winner is in a
blue shirt
and the second first loser is in a white shirt His team But they played fabulous I
don't know who was operating the scoreboard but he was an idiot
Oh gosh
It was me Oh they asked me Rise up Asked me to run the scoreboard and I'm thinking
okay push a button to run Oh no Oh no One of the I believe on call paid on call
Firefighters came in the eighth inning and straightened it out But I was hoping
That one
Oh
Oh yeah So I asked Neil Hammer who's doing a great job announcing I said Neil can you
help me out here He says many people have left left this booth crying He says I have
no idea
So thank you And on good news I received a letter today I know other staff have that
Mpca has given us preliminary approval on the new wastewater treatment plant plans
So awesome Good
That's all I have But don't ever ask me to do the scoreboard again Unless it's like
at Wrigley Field where you put a thing in there you take one down
Go ahead Go ahead Talk amongst yourselves Yeah I was receiving numerous texts on You
know it's not the ninth inning It's the third inning It's not 21 to 4 Yeah Like I
didn't know But thank you very much to everyone who texted me
All right Well any last comments I would just do a public service announcement
Maybe Becky knows this too but school does start in Red wing Tuesday September 1st So
I've actually had people in the community that didn't realize that So if you have
kids in Red wing right Tuesday September 1st Um school starts early this year
because of Labor Day So and I'll hand it over to Chris for status updates
All right Um the only two that I want to call your attention to tonight Well
actually let me start with I should first look at the dates of upcoming meetings as
we've mentioned a few um additions here So
obviously September 14th is a normal date but we do have a workshop before that
meeting 5 p.m. and that's as requested by the council at the last meeting An update
from the police department primarily or from on the law enforcement Center
primarily about the the proposed new facility So it'll just be a 45 minute to
you know lot less than that hour period Um and whatever data is available at that
time Um then the 28th is the standard meeting workshop before it but we also
have the October 5th workshop that was mentioned in here as an upcoming meeting
That's a newly scheduled um standalone workshop
Um I mean it could delve into budget related topics but it's intended to be
specifically about benefits benefits analysis the survey and and kind of have a
non bookended time to be able to talk about that topic
The other two things that I was going to initially call your attention to um the
public comment at the beginning of the meeting referred to the last item in the
status update and that's the Mississippi dialogues That was initially on the agenda
for tonight but we didn't have staff reports ready And there was some some
questions about exactly where it was Because when we were finalizing the agenda
packet it was before the Arts and Culture Commission meeting last week So we instead
shifted pivoted had the presentations of sorts at public comment to make sure that
you're at least aware that it's coming And then it's intended to be on the on the
agenda on the September 14th meeting I think their concern about getting in front
of you tonight was that it's supposed if if approved it will be installed in
October So they really want to make sure that this doesn't get deferred when it
comes before you at the next meeting And then last but not least I might turn this
I didn't pre discuss anything but we have um an update um a paragraph update We have
a number of links three separate links on our um LPR program which are LPR
technology which is axon Um and then there's a separate attachment that was
prepared with a lot of additional detail of um kind of uh frequently asked
questions I guess you would say And um so we tried to provide the information that
was requested and as as clear away and as quickly as possible But I don't know if
you want to present anything further Nick or answer or if there's any additional
questions but make sure you saw that in the status update
Yeah there's a lot of data privacy concern over license plate reader cameras as you
know I mean we had a couple people come in and talk today and and people should be
concerned about what we do with our data I'm not against that by any means Um
I obviously see the data and what comes through Um so my perspective probably is a
bit different than most people I did have one of our council members take a look at
it um to an extent without seeing the actual data but seeing what it is that we
do Um so I mean if you question as far as what it is I really invite you to actually
take a look at the program There's nothing here to hide Um but I do want to let you
know that the data is held within I mean it's a cloud system It's with axon who
holds all of our data by the way they hold all of our digital evidence data they have
for the last six years we haven't had any issues Um they hold all of our body camera
data They hold all of our in-car camera data um and all of our digital evidence
data which could include photos um videos anything that you could think of that's
digital um is all held on the same base system Uh people talk about the flock
cameras We don't have flock Um that's not not a thing here Uh we went with axon for
a couple reasons One we're actually not even paying a bill this year It's free Um
because we contract with them for a lot of other services So in return for our
service to them and theirs to ours we made an agreement where we would get the first
year for free and then we would pay uh after that also with a substantial
discount We didn't pay for installation nothing Um so we actually got a really
good deal on the program itself But beyond the cost I just really want to address the
data issue right So we hold the data here Nobody else has access to it We don't
share the data with anybody Nobody uh no no other entities have access currently to
our data One thing we are looking at is a possible share with Pierce County Um there
was concern of immigration use by Pierce County if we were to do that So we have an
agreement typed up that if we were to go into an agreement with them that we would
maybe take a look at that They couldn't use that data for immigration Um but
that's the only entity that we're even looking at sharing data and we're not
doing it currently Um they don't even have the cameras installed Even they don't even
have the system to to get into our cameras anyway yet Um so they're just not there
yet either Um but even the company itself if they're going to access our data they
need to go in And the only reason they do that is to fix something in the system Uh
they actually have to ask us to access it and then it gets logged and it gets
audited Um any time that our officer does a search and I showed one of the council
members this um you actually have to enter information and even to do a search Uh and
that includes the reason why you're doing it the date and time you're doing it who's
doing it Um a related ICR call for service um related to why you're doing it Um so
there is a lot of
stuff that you have to enter to even get to a point to even do a search And then
all that is in an auditable program and then we're required by the state to do an
audit So we have a third party come in and actually audit us and look at all our
stuff as far as whether or not we're doing it correctly Um so yeah you see officers
that are on the news getting arrested for misuse of data uh they're getting arrested
because they got found because it tracks them Um so I wish I could tell you that
nobody's ever going to abuse technology I can't make that promise to you So if as a
council you decide that you don't want this program anymore I understand Um and I
can't make the promise that nobody here is going to misuse it I can tell you that we
have a lot of restrictions in place Um and that it is monitored Um and if somebody
does misuse it there's a high likelihood that they're going to get found probably
go to jail um and lose their job Um but I mean I can't sit here and tell the public
that nobody's ever going to misuse something Um there's always potential for
anything So but with that I don't want to keep I mean I could talk about this for
the next two hours probably but I don't want to do that Um but if you have
questions feel free to ask me
Thanks Becky
I have two questions Um first First can you restate what you said about Pierce
County requesting to share the data I just missed that
Yeah So Pierce County has requested to do a data share with us because they're going
to install the same type of camera system through axon as well over there And we can
decide to do a sharing program with them if we choose Um right now we don't share
with anybody And so nobody has access to our data Um if we did a sharing we would
have access to their data then to over the bridge So right now we do have one camera
on the bridge It doesn't pick up everything I don't believe Um and so they
were looking at actually putting the camera on the other side of the bridge to
pick up the other traffic And so it would kind of be a mutual sharing agreement
where we would get both sides of the traffic if we did that Um and then any
other cameras they decided to install within the county as well Um we can if you
want also restrict the fact that they you know only have access maybe to that one
camera Um if you really wanted to where we just would share just the two cameras on
the bridge or none at all It's completely up to the body as far as what you want to
do and how you want that done
Did I mishear you or did you say something about immigration data Or do you mean
across the the Wisconsin Minnesota border
Nope So you did hear me correct
Um there was concern Somebody brought up concern about um Pierce County using the
data for immigration Um and so if we don't have we don't allow that here Um we don't
use the we we don't allow the feds to get our data for immigration purposes We don't
look it up or anything like that We don't have access to any of that Um so there was
concern that if they got the data that it could be used that way So what we do is we
have a type up agreement that if we were to go into an agreement with them to share
camera systems we would ask that they would sign an agreement that they wouldn't
be able to use that technology for that purpose our data
And that brings me to my other question is so what other agencies can access to it
Can so can Goodhue County or can any other federal agencies access that data
None currently I mean certainly somebody could serve me with a bench warrant or
something and make me give up the data But but we currently don't share with anybody
Nobody has access to it except for us There is a possibility let's say
another community calls us and says hey we had a robbery and we're looking for this
vehicle Could you look in your system We would ask them a lot of questions of
course and go through and log all that information of why we're looking at the
data And we could look at it for that purpose and share that one search with
them if we choose to do so Um but currently nobody has access to searcher
data system
And then um do when somebody logs in when somebody from your department logs in for
rightful purposes do you do you specifically or assistant chief Matt link
get an alert that somebody has logged in for a purpose
We don't get an alert but
Right under the system there's an audit log that we can just click on and look at
it at any point to see who accessed it and for what reason And so it will show us
that log And then that log also will get audited And we can't we can't delete it
It's it's you cannot delete it Even if the company goes into our system it gets
logged in that audit as well If if if we have an agreement with somebody it's still
the same thing It gets audited and logged in that in that log as well
So it's always there Um it just you know and I think that one of our captains
usually goes through it every few weeks Um just to kind of check up on it to make
sure we've also sent a new directive out recently that we specifically only allow
the officers to use it or even search the database for higher based crimes Um so
like if you have a driving complaint and they're like hey we want to find this car
It's not allowed to be used for that Um there's a directive that's put out that
says you can't use it for this And they certainly could but then it would be
against the directive And then obviously there would be discipline based upon what
they do Um so right now it's only set for higher based crimes I've actually had it
up this whole time because I was hoping to see a plate so I could actually block it
out and show you kind of without showing you the data what it actually looks like
Um but during this whole process one is actually not even uh gone up there because
it's set so high Um so it's just it's collecting the plates but it's not showing
us any data currently right now
And you answered one of my other questions which is is there a procedure within your
department to to regularly check that And you said that one of the captains is and
I'd like I'd like that in the I think that's a good policy Is that somebody in
there whether it's a captain or captains or you or assistant chief battling is
routinely looking at that record so that you know this pattern seems a little bit
off You can preventatively
Look
Yeah And that's actually an easy policy addition Um because it's really easy just
to go in and look So it doesn't it probably takes you know a few minutes out
of a day um to just go through and just scan it real quick So we could actually
add that directly into our policy or requirement Maybe it gets scanned every
four weeks or every three weeks Um and direct person do it right now Our patrol
captain usually takes a look at it
Thank you
All right Any other questions or comments
All right Seeing none then No else on our agenda I'll call us Adjourned