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I want to recognize that it is 4 p.m. when we generally start, however, because we are in hybrid meeting, we are addressing a couple of technical issues, so please stand by.

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We're tuning in. This is the Redlands Planning Commission of January 24. However, we are sorting out a couple of technical issues, please stand by.

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Good afternoon and welcome to the January 24th meeting of the Redlands Planning Commission.

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We have a form of President and as mentioned earlier we are keeping in the practice of the past few years of having a meeting that is both in person and hybrid as result.

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In the event that we have in your interruption of the connection with the Zoom portion of the meeting,

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we will pause to allow that connection to be re-established so I appreciate your patience with doing that this evening.

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If you are on the social media link, please use the raised hand feature to make a comment at the appropriate time and we will call on you.

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and if you are on telephone, you start 9-2 to comment.

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To start with, so we have no consent calendar items.

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I want to ask all commissioners, has anyone had ex-partate or outside communication with

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any party to the any of the applicants to tonight's meeting?

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Seeing none.

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And we want to open with the opportunity for anyone to speak on an item not on this evening's agenda for public comment.

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Is anyone here to make public comment on an item not on the agenda?

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Yes, please.

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Are you Albert Kelly?

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Please come forward.

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Please give us your name and for the record.

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Yeah, Albert Kelly.

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Good afternoon commissioners.

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I want to talk about key term QUITAM. It is a legal concept. It is a legal written when a private citizen

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who assists a prosecution can receive all or part of the damages or financial penalties

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recorded or levied by a government entity as a result of a prosecution. In this case,

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this goes back to 2009. This is a Pharaoh's war to park in the individual with Giovanna Arianna.

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At that time, during 2008, in 2009, when they were having the raves there, I went to

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the City Commission, I went to Planning Commission, I went to City Council, I met with

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the Corrupt DA, and they were all corrupt, I guess.

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I also met the City Manager, they were all corrupt too, I guess.

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Nobody would do anything.

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I met with the police, nothing was done there.

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Finally, I believe he was captain Fitzmores, I met with him several times.

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He told me that nothing would happen.

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I ended up bringing several students to a meeting with F. Dad. One was seven. One was 12 years old.

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They had been kidnapped at a fair rose, short-up a week later with the 65-in-year-old individual

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and a parking lot in Bany. At that time, finally, the city council said that they would do something.

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The only reason they did something was that I introduced the Drug Interdiction Act.

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And under the Drug Introduction Act, they could find these people a million dollars a day.

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So I have met with the City Attorney Day in several times.

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I haven't yet to receive any information on it, but if I do my calculations, this goes back to 2009.

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At the cost of $1 million a day in penalties, there is levied 3,650 million dollars.

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I'm only going to claim 10% of that, and that would come out to be $365 million.

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The city of Redley of Redlands owes me.

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I'm very serious about this.

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I'd like to take $5 million of that and give it to buy the Mr. at a project so we can all

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go home.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you.

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The first item on our agenda today is the continuation of a public hearing held two weeks

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to go regarding the Mr. at a Canyon Partners.

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This is to continue in extension of time

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for the tentative track map number 18845

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and conditional use permit number 1036,

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a request for a third one-year extension of time

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for this 1.1 acres parcel that will feature 24 single family,

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residential lots in a planned residential development

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according to the proposal.

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So, with that, I want to, this is a public hearing.

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We will open that at this time and staff presentation by Catherine.

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Catherine, please.

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Thank you, Chairman.

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And members of the Commission.

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Do we need to pause for a moment?

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I'm just going to apologize for causing for technical connection.

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This item was continued for two weeks ago.

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To allow staff more time to look into the public comments.

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we have received many public comments since this agenda was published the first time.

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As mentioned, the applicant is requesting planning commission approval for the third time

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extension to the expiration date of tentative track map 1-845 and conditional use permit 1036.

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Yeah, we're looking at the area photograph of the photo site of the project site,

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The size located south of Highland, high view, dry, and east of southland.

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It is a, you can follow the cursor, the screen here,

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here's a location of O-mark, O-Gmang Park in relation to the project site.

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The project is zone A1, it allows for, it's zone for agricultural uses,

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and it allows low density residential development.

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Now,

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we're looking at the approved tentative trap map, as you can see, of the overall

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project site, the development is going to happen on the eastern half, in there's 24 homes,

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proposed there, and the eastern portion of the project site is going to be left the way

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it is, and the development is going to

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saturate on the Western part of the project site.

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This map was originally approved on May 26 of 2015.

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And the project includes 120 acres.

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The map, I'll go through the project timeline

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and explain the

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multiple time extensions

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that this project has had.

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The first time that this project site was presented for development was in April 20.

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In 2005, the city council approved what was known as the Coventon Track of that time. It was a much larger

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development, including 188 acres, to be subdivided into 85 residential lots and five common

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lots for open space purposes. An EIR was prepared and certified for the Coventon Track. Back in 2005,

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And it was certified on April 19, 2005.

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After the project was approved,

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Rettland's Residential Rule Living File

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also against the city,

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Challenging the Secure Determination.

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Subsequently, major R was placed on the ballot

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to ask the voters if zone change from A1 to RR zoning

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should be approved as part of the proposals

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of the COVID-19 tract, the result of the vote was that the zone change should not have been

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approved and the zoning of the poverty should remain A1.

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The parties, so this case went to

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the court and there was a settlement that was entered into, there was a stipulated judgment

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and that was filed with the superior court in 2005.

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The stipulate adjustment did a following.

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One, the EIR for the project is legally adequate

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and is certification is valid under CEQA at that time.

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Two, a determined that the project entitlements

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with deemed legally permissible and three,

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The party is agreed that a plan residential development with 36 lots of fewer would be permitted with no EIR.

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Then in 2014, the CDL Redland purchased 60 acres of the project site that would be the southstim portion of the project site,

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as well as the development rights to 12 lots from the developer to preserve us open space.

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Therefore, amended stipulated judgment was entered into bi-departies.

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The amended stipulated judgment stated that a planned residential development with 24

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lots of fewer will be allowed with no EIR and I emphasize again that the city was part

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of the stipulated judgment and the amended stipulated judgment, as well as the resident

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who are living in the Australia family. Those are the three parties in the stipulated judgment

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and amend the stipulated judgment.

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And on May 26 of 2015, the Planning Commission approved

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tentative track 1-845 for the subdivision of 24 residential lots on the now approximate 120 acres

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of the project site. This project is known as the mistrata Canyon track, and that is the

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solidified ERR for the Coventon tract as per the stipulated judgment.

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Subsequently, staff determined that the map was automatically extended by AB 116 for two years

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to May 26 of 2019.

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Then in April, on April 9 of 2019, the Planning Commission approved the first time extension

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for the map to extend it by another year, then on April 14 of 2020, the Plenty Commission

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approved a second time extension to approve the map by another year to May of the following

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year. Then AB 1561 extended a map by 18 months to November 26 of 2022.

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Then the applicant

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submitted the time extension request on October 27 of last year before the deadline for the

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expiration and the subdivision map stated that the life of the map is automatically extended

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by 60 days or until January 25, 2023.

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In terms of environmental review, which is one of the

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2025, again in 2025, the SMAP was approved with the Certify EIR for the Coventain

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Track which was done in 2025 and that was produced a stipulated judgment which

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specified that the 2025 EIR was sufficient for secret purposes.

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We have received a lot of questions asking the 2025 EIR was done a while, it was done a

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One time ago, is still sufficient and legal to use that document in consideration of tonight's proposal to extend the approved map.

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And in that regard, we would look at SQL Guidelines for Guidance.

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CQA, guideline session 15162, A, stated that in order to require a subsequent EIR additional

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environmental review, one or more of the following conditions that are shown on the screen now

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and also including the staff report must be met with substantial evidence.

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So let me go over the criteria. The first criteria is no substantial change

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changes up proposed in a project. In this case, the applicant is not proposing any change to the project.

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And number two, substantial changes occur in the environment with respect to the circumstances under which the project is undertaken.

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We have received a lot of comments, but none of the comments contains substantial evidence and I'll go over what that how that is defined later.

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3, new information of substantial importance which was not known or could not have been known

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with the exercise of reasonable diligence at the time of the previous ERR or certified.

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And then under that, the project will have one or more significant effect, not discussed in the previous

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ERR, not discussed and be significant effect previously examined will be substantially more severe

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and shown in the previous EIR.

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And all these need to have substantial evidence

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to challenge that prior EIR.

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And the final two conditions had to do a mitigation majors.

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See, mitigation majors previously found not to be feasible

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would, in fact, be feasible and would substantially reduce one or

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more significant effects over the project.

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But the project proponents declined to adopt

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the mitigation majors. That does not exist in this case. The project applicant has accepted

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all the mitigation majors and continues to agree to all the mitigation majors.

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The mitigation majors or alternatives which are considerably different from those analyzed

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in the previous EIR was the substantial reduced one or more significant effects on the environment

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but the project proponent declined to adopt the mitigation majors or alternatives. This is

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also not the case, so with that, we have determined that there's no substantial evidence in them.

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I mean, on the screen now, I'm showing how SQL-defined substantial evidence, substantial evidence as used in these guidelines means enough relevant information,

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and reasonable interferences from this information, that a fair argument can be made to support a conclusion,

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even though other conclusions might also be reached.

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Whether a fair argument can be made, that a project may have a significant effect,

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only environment, is to be determined by examining the whole record before the lead agency.

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argument, specification, and substantiated opinion on narrative evidence, which is clearly

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unown as or inaccurate, or evidence of social or economic impacts, which do not contribute

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to or not caused by physical impacts, only environment does not constitute substantial evidence.

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and further substantial evidence shall include facts, reasonable assumptions, pretty,

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predicated upon facts and expert opinions supported by facts.

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We have received a lot of comments that touch about multiple issues that are of great concern

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to the state and to the city certainly, but they do not meet the differentational, substantial

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evidence as defined by C4.

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I wanted to talk about public comments.

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We have received over 60 written comments in email,

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and I have received phone calls from surrounding neighbors

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as well.

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The issues that have been raised can be categorized

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into five topics, lots of open space.

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That's a lot of people used, the family was area because they used it for recreation, biological resources, there's wildlife, living there, and when the EIR was conducted, there was, we were, the city was already aware of that.

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fire protection issues, drainage and erosion, as well as tribal and cultural resources.

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In terms of loss of open space,

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this project is consistent with the CDC's general plan

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and land use zoning destination, as well as the stability judgment.

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In terms of biological resources, the EIR stated that live-old Kenyan has been identified

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as a wildlife corridor.

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However, yeah, I also stated that the project site is located north of

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LIVO Canyon, separated by hills and does not function as a wildlife linkage to that area.

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In regards to fire protection, we've been working with the fire department, and the

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fire department stated that the original conditions of Houveau, which is attachment F2, to

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for address fire department requirements, and we'll ensure the applicable code requirements

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are met when the project will be required to submit a fire response plan, and that's when the

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fire department will continue to work with the applicant to address fire protection issues.

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We also have received a lot of comments on drainage and erosion because issues have been observed

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at the nearby Oakmont Park, the city is aware of that, and is working with a consultant

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to address the drainage and erosion issues at the park, which is not part of this project

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site. And in terms of how the project site and how the applicant will address drainage

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and erosion issues, we have Mr. Pat Meier here. He would like to address this. So at this

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time I would like to turn over the slide to Mr. Mayer.

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Actually, I was going to call in your next slide.

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Before we give no any questions of staff before we switch to the applicant.

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Missionarily.

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I have a couple of slides.

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If you're you're not complete.

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I'm not completed.

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And we wait.

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In terms of tribal and cultural resources,

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we have her from three tribes since the agenda was published two weeks ago.

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Tribal consultation was not required at the time of the ERL preparation.

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However, it was done.

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We received a letter from NAHC stating,

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you'll listen to individuals that the CDC contact

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and the CDC at that time.

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They follow up with contacting the tribes.

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It's documented in the final DIR EIR response to comments section.

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And at that time, we didn't receive much comment on the tribes.

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There's a potential geoclif on this project site.

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And at the time of the EIR preparation, an archeological study was performed.

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And it concluded that the geoclif were mechanical markings for forming preparation.

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And that study was part of the EIR,

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which was certified in the core, applying that it was sufficient for C quad purposes, and that became

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the stability judgment that all three parties agree on.

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Medigation measures have been incorporated for inadvertent discovery during construction.

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So, a cultural resource was evaluated in a total of five years,

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and there's mitigation measures included in there already for inadvertent discovery of human remains.

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And the EIR concluded less than significant impact on cultural resources after the mitigation.

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So staff's recommendation is that the Planning Commission adopters...

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Resolution number 1611, and approve the one-year extension to extend the expiration date of the project to November 26, 2023, subject to original conditions of approval.

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Staff has prepared motion language on the screen, you'll be in need it, and I'll be happy to answer questions.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

235
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Thank you, Ms. Lynn.

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00:30:29,780 --> 00:30:34,060
So, I just wanted to clarify we had some questions from the last session regarding

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the geoglyph, whether it could be confirmed that the development had actually taken place

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over that, although it sounds like that the validity of that geoglyph is in question based

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on this finding.

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But so, that's the one question I have is just does this site actually result in the removal

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of this supposed geoglyph.

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The other question I have is,

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partially answered you said that it was not required,

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the tribal consultation had happened,

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was the tribal consultation that happened,

246
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would that be in conformance with the required tribal

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cultural resources, consultation through AB 52,

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pass in July of 2015?

249
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Or was it simply informal consultation?

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It was written letters sent by the city's consultant to the tribes and to I was not part of the city's stab at that time.

251
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But the written duck contains were included in the final EIR and we did not receive responses from the tribe.

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I'll rephrase my question, is would that be in conformance with a similar project today,

253
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or would there be other rigor required around tribal cultural resource evaluation?

254
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We have different requirements today.

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In terms of tribal consultation, it's often referred to as AB 52 for projects or SB 18,

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for general plethora amendments and specific line amendments, back in 2003 and 2004, when

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this particular EIR was being prepared, those requirements were not in place at the time.

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SB 18 went into effect and I believe March of 2005, and this particular EIR was prepared

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and circulated prior to that requirement, and the finally EIR was adopted in early 2005.

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So the short answer is,

261
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no, today's tribal consultation requirements are different than they were in 2004 and 2005.

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Thank you.

263
00:32:49,530 --> 00:32:56,330
And then my follow up to that would be, well, I'll come back.

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That's it for now.

265
00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:58,210
Thank you.

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00:33:00,170 --> 00:33:00,750
Commissioner Shaw.

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00:33:01,910 --> 00:33:04,470
So a question based on what I saw on the slides there.

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We talked about the fact that it wasn't required in 2005, and this is specific to tribal.

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But the comments there said that the EIR concluded that there was less than significant impact relative to the tribal and cultural peace.

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And we'll have confused how that works out if it wasn't required and it wasn't actually part of that,

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then how are we saying that there was less than significant impact.

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So, as part of the EIR Circulation process, back in 2004,

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the document was circulated through

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the State Clearinghouse, which is standard procedure, still is standard procedure.

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And at that time, the Native American Heritage Commission was notified as part of that standard

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circulation process at that time.

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The response from the Native American Heritage Commission to the city was to contact certain

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individuals on a list provided by the Native American Heritage Commission, I believe it's

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sort of a five, and the consultant at that time, the consultant at the IAR, reached out

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to those individuals for information or consultation at that time, and my understanding is that

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no significant information nor response was provided from the tribes to the city at that time.

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And that's the documentation that we have in the final IAR.

283
00:34:22,460 --> 00:34:28,560
Okay, and so that's the most current information is that's 2005 essentially.

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We don't have anything since that point in the last 18 years where we've done anything related

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to tribal and cultural.

286
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:43,540
Well, we did receive three comments on January 10th from tribal representatives from

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So, Boba Band, of Luis Nguyenian's Seminole Band of Mission Nians and the Morongo Band of Mission Nians.

288
00:34:52,520 --> 00:35:03,220
So, we received three comments and staff followed up the very next day with those three tribal representatives and through various email correspondence.

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We've heard general concerns, but we've not been provided any specific information, or evidence of any specific tribal cultural resources on or near this project site.

290
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,640
The concerns that have been expressed have been very general and non-specific.

291
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:43,180
Okay, my concern is just that we've, you know, obviously, that they've raised that, and if we haven't done anything in 18 years on it, it seems like that is certainly an avenue that we should, in some manner, explore before we, before we sign that office, not, you know, it's not significant.

292
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It's basically, that is an 18-year-old statement there, and it was not significant.

293
00:35:53,660 --> 00:35:57,920
I specifically followed up with the three representatives in the past few days.

294
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It's recently as a afternoon, and we've still not been provided any specific information

295
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,920
or evidence regarding tribal cultural resources on the project site.

296
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,180
Commissioner, that is a very critical point that Mr. Floyd makes.

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00:36:12,180 --> 00:36:18,460
We need to show substantial evidence and the tribes haven't given that to us, but that needs

298
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to factor into your consideration on that particular issue.

299
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And would that only come from the tribes or would there be something else from an EIR standpoint

300
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,960
that we would be asking other people other than those three representatives that the tribes

301
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to weigh in on that tribal and cultural peace?

302
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,600
They are the main source for that information.

303
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:41,380
They are the experts in that area, so we rely on them to provide that information to us.

304
00:36:41,380 --> 00:36:44,440
we've asked them for it, they have not provided it.

305
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,540
They've been making general comments,

306
00:36:47,140 --> 00:36:49,740
generalities, some information, but nothing

307
00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:53,060
that rises to the level of substantial evidence

308
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,740
that you could consider to make your decision here

309
00:36:57,740 --> 00:37:00,020
on the CEQA analysis here.

310
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:04,960
Commissioner Ancily?

311
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,960
As a follow-up, I guess, to be well, Commissioner Shaz,

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saying, would not be the introduction of AB 52 in July, it's 2015 not supposed to create

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00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:21,940
a significant, or be significant evidence of a change in, if not environment environmental

314
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review, in that, given what we were just hearing, they have not provided this.

315
00:37:26,540 --> 00:37:30,560
I think that this project was posted a week before January 10.

316
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,520
My assumption would be that they'd have far more than three weeks to respond if it was

317
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,780
going through a full EIR with the current requirements for tribal cultural resources.

318
00:37:40,540 --> 00:37:44,480
So I'm not really surprised that we haven't received anything in last couple of weeks.

319
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,540
It seems far from a formal process of simply just asking for information.

320
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,580
If this were going through a formal EIR, I guess my question is, what's the timeline we

321
00:37:54,580 --> 00:37:57,100
would give them to respond and what that kind of process look like?

322
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,060
Under today's standards, we would provide them letters and give them 90 days to respond.

323
00:38:06,260 --> 00:38:07,240
Thank you.

324
00:38:10,660 --> 00:38:11,220
What's your role?

325
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,340
I'm just a follow-up again on the Tribal Corporal Resources.

326
00:38:15,060 --> 00:38:21,460
When I did my EV52 training, we learned that there are elements of the Tribal Cultures

327
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that can't be shared with folks outside of the tribes.

328
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Are we receiving any information from the tribes that the information that they're giving

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us general information?

330
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Is that because of their own cultural practices or is there no indication that any of this?

331
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I'm just wondering if this is something that's been kept from the city because of their

332
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cultural reasons or if they're truly saying these are general concerns with no further information

333
00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:45,920
to us.

334
00:38:48,690 --> 00:38:53,650
So in terms of specific information in data for actual tribal cultural resources, whether

335
00:38:53,650 --> 00:38:59,550
it's location or description or use of tribal cultural resources, that particular data is

336
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held confidential between tribal government and the elite agency, the city, in this case,

337
00:39:05,290 --> 00:39:09,470
and the developer is also entitled to see that information.

338
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:12,590
We need to document it.

339
00:39:12,890 --> 00:39:17,990
It would be kept in a separate confidential appendix that is not circulated with other public documents.

340
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However, we would provide a general description to inform the public and inform the commission as to the basis of the recommendation or the basis of the decision.

341
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We have to provide a general description.

342
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But we don't need to provide the actual confidential information itself, whether that's

343
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burial data or a village site or other sensitive tribal culture resources.

344
00:39:44,990 --> 00:39:49,610
The state law has a specific provision for the sharing of confidential information between

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the tribal government and the lead agency.

346
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So that mechanisms already in place that can be provided if they wish to do so.

347
00:39:58,060 --> 00:40:03,400
So having said that, it's not the absence of confidential information, it's the absence of any

348
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:04,560
of response at all, correct?

349
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,380
I have received your response, but again, it was just in general terms.

350
00:40:11,540 --> 00:40:16,660
I did ask for specific information that could be provided and there's been no specific information

351
00:40:16,660 --> 00:40:19,220
regarding tribal activities, for instance, that's been forthcoming.

352
00:40:20,260 --> 00:40:24,220
And that would be tribal resources that are on this parcel of property in particular.

353
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on the project site, anywhere in the vicinity of the project sites,

354
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,780
I'll just say that the

355
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description that's been provided has been very vague in general that there might be a

356
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,540
concern of potential type of cultural resources just in this general area of the city.

357
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:44,700
Nothing specific to this project site or vicinity.

358
00:40:46,020 --> 00:40:47,060
Thank you.

359
00:40:48,180 --> 00:41:03,560
It's just to clarify, there is a certified EIR, it came for this project, at the time that it was certified and that that EIR was reaffirmed by the stipulated judgment, correct?

360
00:41:03,940 --> 00:41:04,240
Correct.

361
00:41:05,140 --> 00:41:05,500
Thank you.

362
00:41:05,540 --> 00:41:06,460
That was in 2014.

363
00:41:06,900 --> 00:41:08,980
That was the last time it's been reaffirmed.

364
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:12,900
All right.

365
00:41:13,380 --> 00:41:16,640
And with that, vice chair from Shaw.

366
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:28,800
You partially answered this. I just want to be a little bit more specific. Can you share what those general concerns were that weren't specific from the tribal responses?

367
00:41:30,100 --> 00:41:42,620
Yes, from the Marango Bands, there was a general concern about a potential historical village site or potential burial site.

368
00:41:42,620 --> 00:41:52,410
some distance to the east, my understanding was probably in New Kapa, which again there was

369
00:41:52,410 --> 00:41:58,430
there was nothing specific provided in terms of specific location, specific description or

370
00:41:58,430 --> 00:42:04,710
characterization of what the resource might be. That was the extent of the general description

371
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:06,310
of what might be in the area.

372
00:42:10,830 --> 00:42:12,790
You can see no additional commissioner comment.

373
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,180
Thank you, Miss

374
00:42:33,940 --> 00:42:39,400
My name is Pat Meyer. I'm representing the administrative family as I have been for quite

375
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:48,580
a while now. I think like what I thought I do is just kind of briefly touch on the process

376
00:42:48,580 --> 00:42:57,380
here and then spend a little time on the comments that were made. You also have a letter from

377
00:42:57,380 --> 00:43:04,540
Frank Mastretta, hopefully you had a chance to look at that and Frank expresses his opinion

378
00:43:04,540 --> 00:43:09,860
about what the family has gone through over the last 20 years with regard to the property

379
00:43:09,860 --> 00:43:14,180
in particular about trying to be good stewards with regard to the design of the property

380
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,560
and saving open space and wildlife co-orders and so forth.

381
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:33,700
So, as Katherine alluded to, the property started out as a little over 180 acres, and there was an 85-lot project approved there with a certified EIR.

382
00:43:34,460 --> 00:43:47,480
And then it was challenged and a referendum occurred, and the result of that was that a group of citizens out there got together with the most threat of family,

383
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:54,760
because Covington walked away from the whole ordeal and the mistred is worth left with it.

384
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:59,400
And the city of Redlands and entered into negotiations with regard to the property,

385
00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:05,060
which resulted in the stipulated judgment the first one in 2005.

386
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:12,720
And after that time frame, the mistred of family, they're not residential builders,

387
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:20,660
So there was no real desire in their part to try to decide what a bill is going to want to do with these 36 lots.

388
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,680
And so they sat on it for a little while.

389
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:31,100
And then there was negotiations with between the city of Redlands and the Conservancy.

390
00:44:31,100 --> 00:44:39,800
The Redlands Conservancy to acquire about 60 acres which equated to one unit per five acres would be 12 lots.

391
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,500
So, the stipulated judgment said,

392
00:44:42,940 --> 00:44:46,320
Mr. Ed, did you get 36 lots per se when to the A1 zone?

393
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:56,200
And we would like you to put those up into the northwest portion of the project's side and cluster it and leave as much open space as possible.

394
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,980
So, subsequently, the Conservancy and the...

395
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:10,840
We want you to reduce that by 12 lots, and the city has the money to buy 60 acres on the bottom of the property and to the southeast.

396
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:18,720
Mr. Edder, family concurred with that and that acquisition happened and then the project

397
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:24,040
was reduced to 24 loss potentially on the property and those were put up then in the

398
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,960
design in the northwest corner and that's the track map that you see in front of you today.

399
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:37,140
So then went back to court and had that stipulated judgment revised to reflect that no

400
00:45:37,140 --> 00:45:43,920
have 36 of 24, but all the original and title months and everything is certified EIR, the

401
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:51,180
CUP are still valid. And so that's what we've been respecting and relying on for the last

402
00:45:51,180 --> 00:45:57,720
few years while we're doing the final engineering and so forth. So getting specifically to

403
00:45:57,720 --> 00:46:03,320
some of the comments and I'll follow kind of the staff report with regard to the items.

404
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:08,140
The first bullet point was impacts on tribal and cultural resources.

405
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,160
Linda, I hope I don't mess this up for you.

406
00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:23,460
So, as Catherine said, as part of the regional certified EIR,

407
00:46:23,580 --> 00:46:27,760
the Native American Heritage Commission was contacted in December of 2004,

408
00:46:29,620 --> 00:46:34,300
and they sent a letter back, didn't identify any specific resources

409
00:46:34,300 --> 00:46:41,560
sources on the property, but indicated they would like as the contact to people that were

410
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:48,680
involved with the Morango ban and mission Indians. And we have heard concerns about the

411
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:59,020
so-called geoglyph and so the project proponents actually prepared a cultural resource survey

412
00:46:59,020 --> 00:47:04,180
that is part of the city files in 2003,

413
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,960
and the conclusion was that there was no

414
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:18,560
geoglyph there. This was incorporated into the EIR, and this specific study was sent to

415
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:24,060
the two individuals that the Native American Heritage Commission asked us to contact.

416
00:47:27,420 --> 00:47:29,000
So they

417
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:36,260
from them. And the EIR that was certified concluded that there were no significant cultural resources

418
00:47:36,260 --> 00:47:42,820
based on this study and the fact that the Native American Indians did not respond saying yes,

419
00:47:43,180 --> 00:47:50,980
we believe there is one there. So that's why that particular cultural resource thing in our minds

420
00:47:50,980 --> 00:47:58,360
remains not significant and it hasn't changed. Cultural resources don't come and go like biology does.

421
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,480
I mean, if it's there, it's there, and it's not there.

422
00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:08,000
The second bullet point was the impacts to the drainage and erosion.

423
00:48:08,140 --> 00:48:12,120
I don't know, Catherine, did you want me to refer to that slide at all?

424
00:48:12,660 --> 00:48:13,940
You had to slide up.

425
00:48:17,300 --> 00:48:25,100
So there's two distinct drainage areas here that one comes down off of south

426
00:48:25,100 --> 00:48:28,440
and southern London that goes into the Oakmont Park.

427
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:46,540
And that's a pretty significant drainage area because it goes all the way up to sunset and you've all been down those streets, they're very steep, and it includes club drive and several other streets in that area that all drain down right into the Oak Grove.

428
00:48:46,540 --> 00:48:54,880
This particular map is in a different drainage area and only a small portion over near, I think,

429
00:48:55,180 --> 00:48:58,880
at South Lane, extended down in here, goes into that drainage.

430
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:07,120
Everything else drains from this project site into the water quality, the tension basin,

431
00:49:07,900 --> 00:49:11,900
and then we'll go, um, and it'll stay there and percolate.

432
00:49:11,900 --> 00:49:17,840
If any leaves is going to go around the corner, it bypasses the oak grove.

433
00:49:18,460 --> 00:49:25,300
It would enter the live oak creek further south, so it doesn't go into that same drainage area.

434
00:49:26,900 --> 00:49:33,160
In terms of the loss to natural habitat again, we started with 180 acres.

435
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:43,660
We are ending up with about 40 acres on site that were impacting 100 and over 140 acres

436
00:49:43,660 --> 00:49:47,080
where we may in a natural open space dedicated to the city of Redlands.

437
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:57,350
And in terms of the potential impacts on wildfire, as part of the certified EIR, there was

438
00:49:57,350 --> 00:50:03,670
a fire protection management plan done by an outside consultant, incorporated as an appendix

439
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:11,170
into the EIR and certified, and that was reviewed by the fire department at the time, and

440
00:50:11,170 --> 00:50:18,110
as part of the ongoing effort with regard to the development of planned, we will update that

441
00:50:18,110 --> 00:50:20,070
in terms of the current codes.

442
00:50:20,370 --> 00:50:26,790
And it really talks about setbacks from slopes and vegetation, and that sort of thing.

443
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:31,150
So again, that was prepared and was part of the EIR.

444
00:50:32,210 --> 00:50:40,530
So, in my conclusion, I think that we can occur with the staff's opinion that this item

445
00:50:41,570 --> 00:50:46,330
should be the time extension, should be recommended for approval, and we would hope you

446
00:50:46,330 --> 00:50:46,810
would concur.

447
00:50:47,210 --> 00:50:47,690
Thank you.

448
00:50:48,110 --> 00:50:52,110
I'll be happy to answer any questions or if after the testimony you need me to come up, I'll

449
00:50:52,110 --> 00:50:52,690
be happy to.

450
00:50:52,870 --> 00:50:53,810
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

451
00:50:54,070 --> 00:50:57,970
Any questions by the commission of the applicant at this time?

452
00:50:57,970 --> 00:51:00,910
All right, we'll open for public comment.

453
00:51:02,530 --> 00:51:10,430
This is one of the knowledge that, as staff mentioned, we do have a significant number of

454
00:51:10,430 --> 00:51:16,130
written correspondence that the Commission has received and that was all shared with us

455
00:51:16,130 --> 00:51:25,370
in the prior week, and because of the topic that we've been discussing here, I have two

456
00:51:25,370 --> 00:51:32,490
sheets that indicate speakers are prepared to speak to the tribal issues, so I'll first

457
00:51:32,490 --> 00:51:34,850
call upon Ryan Nordness please.

458
00:51:43,020 --> 00:51:43,340
Hello again.

459
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:45,140
Thank you again.

460
00:51:47,100 --> 00:51:52,880
So I do want to address some issues that we've had concerning the existing EIR, some issues

461
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:57,260
with the correspondence that we sent to the city, and the lack of correspondence we've

462
00:51:57,260 --> 00:52:02,020
received from the city regarding our comments that we're deemed too general.

463
00:52:02,660 --> 00:52:03,780
by staff.

464
00:52:05,810 --> 00:52:09,710
I just kind of want to do some quick clarification here. Could the committee clarify

465
00:52:09,710 --> 00:52:14,890
on what specific information they require in the future for issues like this? The term

466
00:52:14,890 --> 00:52:22,930
general is in self to vague. If we are better informed on what the city requires, we can

467
00:52:22,930 --> 00:52:28,530
supply that information. We are going through our literary, GIS, and other resources.

468
00:52:30,980 --> 00:52:31,240
Given the

469
00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:35,880
to see the deadline, could the city address why there was no follow-up when staff from

470
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,440
Simowell, I'm sorry, and the staff from the city deemed a tribal documentation to

471
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,900
general, two general, after viewing the comments sent.

472
00:52:46,110 --> 00:52:51,270
I've never heard back from Mr. Foot's office after our comments were sent.

473
00:52:52,330 --> 00:52:56,450
I also like clarification on Simowell's correspondence which cited the EAR comments,

474
00:52:57,330 --> 00:53:00,910
letters, the existence of nearby resources, two general.

475
00:53:02,210 --> 00:53:10,610
If we could receive that, that would be great, and some kind of correspondence, I realize that the deadline is very, and I think we push this issue too quickly.

476
00:53:11,730 --> 00:53:13,050
And that's my done.

477
00:53:13,490 --> 00:53:14,030
Thank you.

478
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:17,580
And Laura Chatterton,

479
00:53:19,940 --> 00:53:25,180
you can give your name and your agency for the record.

480
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:28,660
Oh, excuse me, sorry.

481
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,140
I had to give my photo of my name as Laura Chatterton.

482
00:53:31,140 --> 00:53:34,920
and the cultural resource specialist for the Marango Band of Mission Indians.

483
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:43,940
I would like to speak to the fact that under AB 52, which is the law that you're saving the confidentiality.

484
00:53:44,180 --> 00:53:47,160
Unfortunately, we're not in AB 52 consultation with the city.

485
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:52,860
There is not really a mechanism for us to share confidential information

486
00:53:52,860 --> 00:53:55,900
without a formal government to government relationship.

487
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,780
The generalities are because of that.

488
00:53:58,780 --> 00:54:01,260
We're trying to tell you that we have concerns.

489
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,520
We want to give you a little bit more information.

490
00:54:05,300 --> 00:54:08,460
But the city needs to initiate formal consultation

491
00:54:08,460 --> 00:54:11,040
with the tribes in order for us to share that information.

492
00:54:13,260 --> 00:54:13,540
That's all.

493
00:54:13,540 --> 00:54:13,960
Thank you.

494
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:15,460
Thank you.

495
00:54:19,210 --> 00:54:21,910
Before we begin, I want to remind all speakers

496
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:27,230
that we limit all public comment to three minutes.

497
00:54:27,830 --> 00:54:30,890
You will receive a bit of a warning when you're getting close

498
00:54:30,890 --> 00:54:37,650
and above and run light at three minutes and ask all speakers to respect that so that we can

499
00:54:37,650 --> 00:54:40,510
get through a substantial speaker's list.

500
00:54:41,590 --> 00:54:42,010
Join us.

501
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:00,940
Thank you.

502
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:07,860
I appreciate the time that you put into these meetings and what you do and how to do for the

503
00:55:07,860 --> 00:55:08,200
city.

504
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:40,060
Here is the photo of the J-cliff taken in the 1930s.

505
00:55:41,340 --> 00:55:46,220
We don't find any evidence of it anymore, even though we've searched hard.

506
00:55:50,800 --> 00:56:00,740
However, from that location which is documented, we see the solstice, the winter and the summer solstice.

507
00:56:01,620 --> 00:56:02,920
From that location.

508
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:05,120
And that is forever.

509
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,700
It's marked by the sun and by our mountains, which don't move.

510
00:56:11,700 --> 00:56:17,400
Please vote against discretion of this site.

511
00:56:18,180 --> 00:56:21,100
It's very emotional to be there on the Salsa Seas.

512
00:56:27,710 --> 00:56:33,470
What are the institutions in redlands defined as character?

513
00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:44,990
The old post office, the library, the Kimberly Crest, the University of Redlands.

514
00:56:46,310 --> 00:56:48,970
They all get old and crumble.

515
00:56:48,970 --> 00:56:49,110
So,

516
00:56:52,260 --> 00:56:57,020
this all of Liberténe is unchanged,

517
00:56:59,340 --> 00:57:05,620
it can regenerate itself and be a place that will

518
00:57:05,620 --> 00:57:10,480
define redlands for the future in all generations.

519
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,500
It will be a modern example of something that defines redlands.

520
00:57:15,740 --> 00:57:19,180
So please vote against this extension.

521
00:57:19,180 --> 00:57:23,080
your children and many generations after them.

522
00:57:23,380 --> 00:57:24,420
Well, thank you.

523
00:57:26,500 --> 00:57:27,100
Thank you.

524
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:33,220
David Matuzak.

525
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:45,120
Any commission members?

526
00:57:45,340 --> 00:57:46,800
My name is David Matuzak.

527
00:57:46,860 --> 00:57:49,580
I am the president of the Friends of Lival Canyon,

528
00:57:50,260 --> 00:57:54,400
and also the coordinator of the Lival Canyon Firewise Community,

529
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,260
which is associated with Firewise USA program.

530
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:00,120
You have my comments.

531
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:06,540
Originally, I gave you 10 reasons not to extend this project.

532
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:16,240
I added one when I found out that there is a septic system in there, so close to a blue line

533
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:17,560
stream that is absurd.

534
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:23,460
So you're going to hear a lot of points and comments by various people.

535
00:58:25,780 --> 00:58:27,520
I don't want to address those at this time.

536
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:29,640
And I want to address the process itself.

537
00:58:31,300 --> 00:58:36,720
The staff report that you heard and the report that you heard from Mr. Myers, in the cowboy

538
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,900
world we call that it's a lot of sheep dip.

539
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:47,060
What I'm trying to tell you is, those reports are done by people who have never set foot

540
00:58:47,060 --> 00:58:48,000
in live-olking.

541
00:58:48,820 --> 00:58:52,140
I have resided in live-olking for well over 30 years.

542
00:58:52,140 --> 00:59:00,480
I horseback ride there for decades to say that that area is not a wildlife quarter is a bald-faced

543
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:01,100
lie.

544
00:59:02,380 --> 00:59:07,140
If any of you want to take a hike out there, I'll show you tracks of animals all over that

545
00:59:07,140 --> 00:59:07,440
area.

546
00:59:10,970 --> 00:59:16,370
The Bixler biotic survey was not included in the original EIR.

547
00:59:16,370 --> 00:59:26,790
it is the only onsite survey of wildlife and fauna and flora in the canyon. It should be consulted

548
00:59:26,790 --> 00:59:28,590
on a new EIR.

549
00:59:31,180 --> 00:59:39,120
This whole thing really boils down to one thing. Developers versus residents

550
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:46,560
and the experts. You've heard from the experts in your comment. You're going to hear from residents.

551
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:56,920
I'd just like very quickly all of the residents that are here tonight that oppose this project to stand upright now.

552
01:00:00,460 --> 01:00:11,460
This is your citizens and your people versus profit for developers. That's what it all boils down to.

553
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:21,180
To sort of conclude, you need a new EIR for this project. You need current tribal input.

554
01:00:21,180 --> 01:00:32,380
There have been recent fines of Native American artifacts in Lival, Kenya as a result of the rains and the flooding and the creeks out of Oakmont Park.

555
01:00:33,180 --> 01:00:42,800
At least one of those artifacts are housed in the Ranch, the Gateway Ranch House Center there that's run by the Rev. Conservancy.

556
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:50,380
I heard a lot of good questions tonight from you.

557
01:00:50,380 --> 01:01:00,400
are this afternoon? This is really profit versus quality of life. Do the right thing. Do the

558
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:05,180
right thing by voting no extension. Thank you.

559
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:12,000
Jim Demickle.

560
01:01:21,980 --> 01:01:23,120
My name is Jim Demickle. I live

561
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:29,840
on the corner of Altavista and Hive. Are any of you familiar with that area? How would you drive

562
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:34,400
to the proposed development tonight, from here. Could you tell me, Commissioner?

563
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,760
There's any one to how many roads there would be into the development?

564
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,740
How many? How many? Name two.

565
01:01:47,870 --> 01:01:51,250
From here to the development. How would you get into the development?

566
01:01:51,450 --> 01:01:54,050
Actually, this is a Q&A. If you've got a statement to make.

567
01:01:54,070 --> 01:01:57,350
Well, my statement is that you don't know what you're voting on, I guess.

568
01:01:57,830 --> 01:02:01,510
By the other statement is you haven't even taken the time to look at the map

569
01:02:01,510 --> 01:02:04,370
to see that there's only one way in and one way out.

570
01:02:04,670 --> 01:02:06,370
And that goes right by my home.

571
01:02:06,890 --> 01:02:08,470
But I've been here for 30 years.

572
01:02:08,950 --> 01:02:11,550
Teaching your boy scouts, feeding your homeless,

573
01:02:11,710 --> 01:02:14,570
attending your church, my wife teaches at Mariposa.

574
01:02:14,750 --> 01:02:16,670
So don't tell me, this isn't a Q&A.

575
01:02:17,190 --> 01:02:18,570
That's exactly what you're here for.

576
01:02:18,650 --> 01:02:20,150
You're here to answer our questions.

577
01:02:20,850 --> 01:02:22,630
And we're here to hear your statement.

578
01:02:22,770 --> 01:02:25,030
Well, my statement is, there's three reasons

579
01:02:25,030 --> 01:02:26,110
you shouldn't approve this.

580
01:02:26,410 --> 01:02:28,270
You raise the speed limit on all to VISTA,

581
01:02:28,410 --> 01:02:30,250
even though I stood here.

582
01:02:30,250 --> 01:02:37,750
a month ago and asked you not to. There's a lady in the hospital tonight because of that, not to, but the traffic, they're the city council.

583
01:02:39,110 --> 01:02:44,830
The street, the impact study was done in 2005, it hasn't been updated since 2005.

584
01:02:45,550 --> 01:02:51,230
There's Amazon trucks, FedEx trucks, bigger pickup trucks, a higher speed limit.

585
01:02:52,490 --> 01:02:55,370
The landscape is nothing like it was in 2005.

586
01:02:55,370 --> 01:03:00,210
the second reason is, the people don't want it.

587
01:03:00,610 --> 01:03:03,670
The people that live in that area that help this community

588
01:03:03,670 --> 01:03:05,190
don't want this development.

589
01:03:05,890 --> 01:03:07,230
We're not against free enterprise.

590
01:03:07,450 --> 01:03:08,690
We have all made our own money.

591
01:03:09,510 --> 01:03:14,010
But we don't see how you can jam development into an area where one street

592
01:03:14,010 --> 01:03:17,570
goes in and one street goes out when you don't have any studies

593
01:03:17,570 --> 01:03:19,350
to support the additional traffic.

594
01:03:19,930 --> 01:03:22,330
When I asked Mr. Meyer a few years ago on the phone,

595
01:03:22,330 --> 01:03:25,830
What the impact of this would be when I read them the environmental impact statement

596
01:03:25,830 --> 01:03:32,270
He said can be Jim you're gonna stake and it's not another four or five trips for house. It's ten fifteen trips more per house

597
01:03:32,270 --> 01:03:36,710
Maybe he can speak to that later and the third thing I want to talk about is the process

598
01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:40,690
I just learned a letter into address these issues. It didn't appear on that slide

599
01:03:40,690 --> 01:03:46,390
So I don't know why you said you you brought up every issue that was addressed by the public because mine wasn't up there

600
01:03:46,810 --> 01:03:52,310
And traffic is a dynamic evolving changing landscape and you guys don't even know how to get into the

601
01:03:52,310 --> 01:03:55,390
project, you don't know how to get out of the project, and you don't even know what the

602
01:03:55,390 --> 01:03:59,910
streets look like or what's going on in those streets. So for those reasons, I encourage

603
01:04:01,510 --> 01:04:07,970
you, and I apologize. I encourage you not to grant this extension and instead look for ways

604
01:04:07,970 --> 01:04:14,950
to preserve what's their cultural, biological, ecological, recreational, the way it is now

605
01:04:14,950 --> 01:04:19,070
and make Mr. Mr. Mastretta hold in a different way. Thank you.

606
01:04:25,330 --> 01:04:27,610
All right, Albert Kelly on this item?

607
01:04:35,100 --> 01:04:40,200
Hello, Albert Kelly. Just saying hello again. Several years ago, I spoke to public hearing about

608
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:45,100
the Mr. Project. At that time, I just gave input to Mr. Mr. Mr. and Project Award in any

609
01:04:45,100 --> 01:04:50,400
Pat Myers. I suggested that the eastern two lots, actually it's four, were fire-indefensible

610
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:55,100
and block-miracorded roof for large mammals using the root 10 more batch interchange. I did

611
01:04:55,100 --> 01:04:59,140
work seven years for the U.S. Forest Service in both this degree and the night-of-while crews

612
01:04:59,140 --> 01:05:03,880
and so I do know fire a little bit. Several adult mule day in Montline have been killed on

613
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:08,220
the Lieutenant-Walbash in the last decade. Calfish, while if you're a pity, Rick Fisher

614
01:05:08,220 --> 01:05:13,400
and I removed them. I also submitted a video showing one adult buck, and for those,

615
01:05:13,460 --> 01:05:16,600
at both Crystal Springs and the Canyon Crossing Sunset heading south.

616
01:05:17,260 --> 01:05:23,080
Sequo only works if municipalities don't lead a potential developer in delays to a building

617
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:25,740
the project or canceling it.

618
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:30,440
The city of Redlands and Constance delays and not doing the requirement supplemental and

619
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:34,640
you attendums works against the developer and state environmental guidelines alike.

620
01:05:35,140 --> 01:05:38,620
This is not for you to miss a Mr. Strutter or to the neighbors in the adjacent proposed

621
01:05:38,620 --> 01:05:39,140
project.

622
01:05:39,700 --> 01:05:44,860
In light of what's going on in local communities and Redlands negligence, the filing problems

623
01:05:44,860 --> 01:05:47,280
need to be addressed because they have been amplified.

624
01:05:47,860 --> 01:05:52,940
The elimination of the Dunlap Bridge with you Kipa's new Clover Leaf, Egress, and lots

625
01:05:52,940 --> 01:05:57,800
emergency routes for Lival Canyon, Oakland road as well as out of highway 10.

626
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:02,640
You type as approval of 3600 homes and warehouses all the way to the Redland City

627
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,220
border and penciled in mitigation numbers.

628
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:12,020
Approval of 3800 homes in Calamacis, Oak Valley using Lival Canyon and Route 10 and Sintim

629
01:06:12,020 --> 01:06:14,180
as penciled in mitigation projects.

630
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:20,940
As far as contact with Native Americans, it's Theresa Coopermberg called me 25 years ago when

631
01:06:20,940 --> 01:06:23,560
the local developer loanland bulldozed it.

632
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:25,060
That's what the scrape marks are.

633
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:26,160
That's from his bulldozer.

634
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:30,220
And the native antiquities act still requires,

635
01:06:30,620 --> 01:06:32,740
is that that project area is saved.

636
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:34,680
Regardless of it's been destroyed or not.

637
01:06:35,020 --> 01:06:38,340
And you have not met that burden of proof.

638
01:06:39,180 --> 01:06:42,780
Any new fire extension for the fire prone wildlife

639
01:06:42,780 --> 01:06:45,120
interface areas has not been followed.

640
01:06:45,540 --> 01:06:46,800
And that's a new state guideline.

641
01:06:47,380 --> 01:06:49,960
In late of some of these points, and especially the backbone

642
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:55,660
of SQL, which is the accumulation of impacts needed to be addressed.

643
01:06:56,420 --> 01:07:01,720
The responsibility of this lack of legal compliance falls and fails, squarely on you guys,

644
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:06,480
the City of Redlands, and the misinformation given in Mr. Mastrada regarding fiscal

645
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,540
timeliness and affordability are proceeding with such a venture.

646
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:10,620
Thank you.

647
01:07:10,620 --> 01:07:11,520
Thank you.

648
01:07:15,450 --> 01:07:16,250
Sharon Durgens.

649
01:07:27,930 --> 01:07:30,190
The chairman and finding commission members.

650
01:07:30,850 --> 01:07:31,910
My name is Sharon Durgens.

651
01:07:31,990 --> 01:07:36,250
My husband, Tom and I live at 317-317-318-view drive.

652
01:07:37,110 --> 01:07:40,190
While we wholeheartedly agree with all the reasons cited

653
01:07:40,190 --> 01:07:42,410
for denying this home development,

654
01:07:42,670 --> 01:07:44,690
there is something else I would like for you to consider.

655
01:07:45,690 --> 01:07:48,430
Each of you could be heroes to our community

656
01:07:48,430 --> 01:07:50,110
by denying this project.

657
01:07:50,890 --> 01:07:53,990
We who are opposed would always hold you up as a group

658
01:07:53,990 --> 01:07:59,070
committed to doing the right thing for redlands, in spite of intense pressure to just

659
01:07:59,070 --> 01:08:04,550
give in to the big development machine, which has no loyalty to the community, only to

660
01:08:04,550 --> 01:08:10,570
profit monetarily from this building project. It has been documented that besides the

661
01:08:10,570 --> 01:08:15,650
obviously important physical health benefits of exercise, there's a mental component too

662
01:08:15,650 --> 01:08:21,790
by being close to nature and the serenity it provides. LIVO Canyon, although small, is a beautiful

663
01:08:21,790 --> 01:08:25,050
respite from the noise and bustle of city streets.

664
01:08:25,910 --> 01:08:29,350
There are so many of us who want to call you our heroes.

665
01:08:29,790 --> 01:08:34,650
If the animals in the canyon could speak, they would beg you to be their advocates too.

666
01:08:35,330 --> 01:08:39,890
If you haven't, please take a walk and open the park and through the canyon and see what

667
01:08:39,890 --> 01:08:45,730
we're talking about and why we are so afraid of losing a part of it to the negative changes

668
01:08:45,730 --> 01:08:47,970
that have been detailed in this meeting.

669
01:08:47,970 --> 01:08:50,430
Please vote no, on the extension.

670
01:08:50,950 --> 01:08:51,630
Thank you.

671
01:08:59,790 --> 01:09:00,310
Thank you, Watson.

672
01:09:00,950 --> 01:09:01,250
Hello.

673
01:09:01,990 --> 01:09:06,250
Thank you, guys, for taking the time to hear our public comments.

674
01:09:06,610 --> 01:09:09,470
So I live in the Opemonna State's development.

675
01:09:10,210 --> 01:09:11,910
I purchased home there right when it was built.

676
01:09:12,170 --> 01:09:13,770
I was there when the ground was broken.

677
01:09:14,490 --> 01:09:18,410
And I basically saw the entire process.

678
01:09:18,910 --> 01:09:21,430
And I'm here to say that for 16 years,

679
01:09:21,750 --> 01:09:24,910
I have been fixing the disaster that is that development.

680
01:09:24,910 --> 01:09:32,970
It was not a success, it was a planning failure, and it was based upon and approved EIR at that time in 2006.

681
01:09:33,950 --> 01:09:41,430
Now, the kinds of things that I saw just to give you some context from someone who is boots on the ground in that area in that development.

682
01:09:42,230 --> 01:09:53,730
There was a rain across the street from my home, and I watched the water erode under the street, and I watched it oak tree actually get sucked into the hole and vanish underground.

683
01:09:53,730 --> 01:09:58,910
The city came and dumped a bunch of rocks in that hole, and it happened again the next year.

684
01:09:59,210 --> 01:10:01,050
Then they dumped more rocks in the hole.

685
01:10:01,330 --> 01:10:06,250
The owner of the property across the street, just on his own, put an culvert all the way in

686
01:10:06,250 --> 01:10:09,390
to divert the water so that it didn't continue to erode.

687
01:10:09,670 --> 01:10:11,950
That was the best thing that could have been done in that area.

688
01:10:12,410 --> 01:10:13,310
He has now moved away.

689
01:10:13,630 --> 01:10:17,270
Trimart Pacific that built the property is now gone out of business.

690
01:10:17,670 --> 01:10:20,870
So there's nobody to talk to as far as accountability with that builder.

691
01:10:21,430 --> 01:10:26,810
But they put hydro seed all over the ground with non-native plants that have taken me 10 years

692
01:10:26,810 --> 01:10:31,090
hand-polling every plant to get rid of them and replace with more native of foliage.

693
01:10:31,690 --> 01:10:37,170
The erosion, the septic tanks and seepage pits that were placed, there are 22 lots.

694
01:10:38,190 --> 01:10:43,570
There were three seepage pits per lot, 30 feet deep, eight feet wide that were placed

695
01:10:43,570 --> 01:10:44,630
on this development.

696
01:10:45,690 --> 01:10:50,070
There was poison put all over the soil to keep weeds from growing during the development

697
01:10:50,070 --> 01:10:55,570
as well, and I have watched unbelievable amounts of erosion and had an, an, an inordinate

698
01:10:55,570 --> 01:11:00,690
amount of expense to try to bring it back to more natural landscape that was water-wise.

699
01:11:01,010 --> 01:11:05,330
Can you imagine the amount of water needed for that development and wasted?

700
01:11:06,050 --> 01:11:11,310
They slapped a sod right on the, uh, clay soil, just slapped it right on top.

701
01:11:11,650 --> 01:11:16,450
My neighbor would water for five hours a day to keep his lawn from dying for three years.

702
01:11:16,450 --> 01:11:22,370
I tore my lawns out the minute I moved in and I put mulch on the ground so that I was not doing that.

703
01:11:22,610 --> 01:11:30,830
But that was not the character that the response of the majority of individuals who were simply just trying to keep their football field size lawns green.

704
01:11:31,410 --> 01:11:35,150
I would hope here that we're not trying to be unreasonable with you.

705
01:11:35,250 --> 01:11:39,710
You are not required by law to actually approve this extended EIR.

706
01:11:39,710 --> 01:11:50,890
There is an attorney letter that you have received from an attorney, let me get the name, so that you can look it up if you haven't seen it in the giant stack of paperwork that you have.

707
01:11:51,110 --> 01:11:53,450
It's from Shoot, Mahaley, and Weinberger.

708
01:11:53,930 --> 01:11:59,890
So please read that if you get a chance they talk about you're not being legally obligated to approve this.

709
01:12:00,410 --> 01:12:03,610
So simply all I'm asking is, do the right thing.

710
01:12:04,050 --> 01:12:05,590
Do the proper EIR of this area.

711
01:12:06,190 --> 01:12:06,630
That's all.

712
01:12:06,670 --> 01:12:07,150
Thank you, guys.

713
01:12:07,150 --> 01:12:08,110
Thank you.

714
01:12:12,130 --> 01:12:12,790
You're all bliny.

715
01:12:25,250 --> 01:12:26,710
Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

716
01:12:27,290 --> 01:12:33,610
I appreciate your public service and doing what you're doing and I'm glad to be here

717
01:12:33,610 --> 01:12:34,110
today.

718
01:12:36,530 --> 01:12:43,310
There's so much that Sven said that I would say yes to, yes, to the cultural concerns,

719
01:12:43,670 --> 01:12:51,470
most of all, that yes to so many other concerns that clearly, legally, morally and every

720
01:12:51,470 --> 01:12:57,970
the other way rise to the level of substantive changes in the environment that affects the project.

721
01:12:58,590 --> 01:13:03,570
And I can say two words to speak to most of that, those two words are climate change.

722
01:13:04,110 --> 01:13:07,250
That was not addressed at all in that 2005 VR.

723
01:13:07,650 --> 01:13:14,690
You could, I did a search in the document just to be sure for greenhouse gases, climate change, nothing.

724
01:13:14,690 --> 01:13:20,930
And if that doesn't say that there, that there's something missing, I don't know what does.

725
01:13:21,630 --> 01:13:24,070
I'd like to refer you to a letter.

726
01:13:24,310 --> 01:13:29,710
Let's see if I can pull this up here, that was written by a biologist.

727
01:13:30,490 --> 01:13:34,010
And it looks like it's not going to pull up on my phone, so I'll summarize for you.

728
01:13:34,550 --> 01:13:42,410
There are a lot of biological endangered species or threatened species, sensitive species,

729
01:13:42,410 --> 01:13:44,650
that occur on or near this tract.

730
01:13:45,590 --> 01:13:47,350
And mountain lions have recently been

731
01:13:47,350 --> 01:13:49,330
that big mythic native in Southern California,

732
01:13:49,630 --> 01:13:50,890
Southern California mountain lions.

733
01:13:51,270 --> 01:13:53,090
That certainly wasn't addressed in the year.

734
01:13:53,230 --> 01:13:54,550
That's definitely a change.

735
01:13:54,990 --> 01:13:57,470
Now it's allowed that insects are also

736
01:13:57,470 --> 01:13:58,750
allowed to be considered.

737
01:13:58,810 --> 01:14:01,670
We have a globally imperiled bumblebee

738
01:14:01,670 --> 01:14:04,390
whose habitat is included in this tract.

739
01:14:04,650 --> 01:14:05,750
We don't know if it's there yet,

740
01:14:06,010 --> 01:14:08,930
because we're working from a 2005 EIR.

741
01:14:08,930 --> 01:14:18,410
And the 2005 EIR depends on biological data that was listed and categorized in 1980 and 1988.

742
01:14:19,090 --> 01:14:23,030
So it's not just 2005, it's 25 years before that.

743
01:14:23,490 --> 01:14:32,590
It's really, really not accurate to say there have been no major, no substantive changes in this time.

744
01:14:32,590 --> 01:14:34,510
It is not accurate.

745
01:14:35,670 --> 01:14:39,770
And as people have referred to you, you have the power here.

746
01:14:39,850 --> 01:14:41,430
You have a discretionary vote.

747
01:14:41,770 --> 01:14:44,910
You are not legally required to vote one way or the other.

748
01:14:45,290 --> 01:14:48,930
And so please consider with an open mind what you've heard

749
01:14:48,930 --> 01:14:51,590
and please consider for the community.

750
01:14:52,270 --> 01:14:54,270
What is the best?

751
01:14:54,450 --> 01:14:55,950
What's the wisest choice?

752
01:14:57,190 --> 01:14:59,590
And from my perspective, for the community,

753
01:14:59,590 --> 01:14:59,970
the wife.

754
01:15:01,440 --> 01:15:22,020
And to work with the land owner, none of us have any animosity toward toward him, toward his family. But to work with that person, for the good of the community, that's what we're asking you, really. That's underlying question of all of it, to work with the tribal people who have time immemorial connection with this place.

755
01:15:22,020 --> 01:15:26,720
No, they have tremendous rights to this place.

756
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:30,300
Thank you, and to work with the landowner and to work with the community.

757
01:15:30,940 --> 01:15:31,360
Thank you.

758
01:15:31,500 --> 01:15:32,120
Thank you.

759
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:37,340
Very richest singer.

760
01:15:39,970 --> 01:15:40,030
All right.

761
01:15:40,070 --> 01:15:41,210
Thank you.

762
01:15:43,190 --> 01:15:44,210
Bruce Bryce Taylor.

763
01:15:54,350 --> 01:15:54,790
Thank you, Commissioner.

764
01:15:55,450 --> 01:15:57,730
You've currently managing a very difficult job.

765
01:15:58,770 --> 01:16:02,110
So my, I live near Oklahoma.

766
01:16:05,770 --> 01:16:27,290
I had no idea this was privately owned. I thought it was part of the nature preserve. I had lived in one other city Los Angeles. I'm not suggesting that we looked to Los Angeles. As an example, for a lot of what we do here, excuse me.

767
01:16:27,290 --> 01:16:31,530
in reference, but, sorry, I really loved this land.

768
01:16:36,070 --> 01:16:40,110
So, when I lived in Los Angeles, there were two areas where I would go to get away.

769
01:16:40,430 --> 01:16:45,230
For my own mental health, it was the Santa Monica wilderness and the Saint-Gorgonia wilderness.

770
01:16:48,430 --> 01:16:51,270
Saint-Gibriel, sorry, thank you, Saint-Gibriel.

771
01:16:52,450 --> 01:16:58,850
So when I found this was privately owned, I looked at the ratios of land that's preserved

772
01:16:58,850 --> 01:17:04,430
for natural recreation in Los Angeles County, just in these two areas, Santa Monica and

773
01:17:04,430 --> 01:17:11,630
San Gorgonio, San Gabriel. That's 30% of the land area of Los Angeles County.

774
01:17:14,900 --> 01:17:15,200
Similar

775
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:21,940
to Los Angeles County, we have two large areas here in Revents, the Santa Matteo Preserve

776
01:17:21,940 --> 01:17:30,340
and the Hernarchi Preserve Oakmont Park. That represents, by my calculations, 2%, so Los

777
01:17:30,340 --> 01:17:39,540
And it was county has 30% and we have 2% such as ASCII to, sorry, I don't know why I'm emotional

778
01:17:39,540 --> 01:17:41,860
about this, sorry, visibly emotional.

779
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:51,640
So I know the staff report said that this is, even if we develop this land, it's inconsistent

780
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:54,320
with our open space plan.

781
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,400
Please let's exceed our open space plan.

782
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:02,320
even looking to our neighbor to the West, Los Angeles,

783
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:07,620
not known for nature conservation, has preserved 30%.

784
01:18:07,620 --> 01:18:13,000
And this is not, and it's not, they struggle with it.

785
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:16,100
I mean, I'd look through these, those two wilderness areas

786
01:18:16,100 --> 01:18:20,280
in Los Angeles County, they fight tooth and nail for every acre,

787
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:23,100
and they've managed to save 30%.

788
01:18:23,100 --> 01:18:25,140
Please, let's do better.

789
01:18:25,140 --> 01:18:35,880
And if we add this 120 acres, somehow, by some means, this will take us to 3%, by my

790
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:39,440
members with these two sentimentail and her occupiers are.

791
01:18:39,620 --> 01:18:40,180
Thank you.

792
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:46,980
Ryan Roche.

793
01:18:58,530 --> 01:18:59,170
Hello, everyone.

794
01:19:00,350 --> 01:19:06,170
I'd like to say that I'm not opposed to this development per se, but I'd like to highlight

795
01:19:06,170 --> 01:19:07,850
some things for your consideration.

796
01:19:08,470 --> 01:19:10,270
Some of it's been said before.

797
01:19:10,470 --> 01:19:17,150
The previous owner used to run long-horn cattle out there, as largely been replaced by handlebars,

798
01:19:18,030 --> 01:19:23,090
bicycles, kids on bikes, even from the schools and their teams.

799
01:19:23,730 --> 01:19:26,830
And walkers and horses are all out there.

800
01:19:26,970 --> 01:19:29,170
Some people have said to me that's trespassing.

801
01:19:29,730 --> 01:19:32,250
Well, we have a way of rationalizing,

802
01:19:34,430 --> 01:19:36,450
and we have a way of rationalizing, and history

803
01:19:36,450 --> 01:19:40,730
have run in roughshod trespassing to say the least over

804
01:19:40,730 --> 01:19:42,390
native American sensibilities.

805
01:19:43,850 --> 01:19:48,970
The G.O. Glyph has been subsumed by cattle and gofers in time.

806
01:19:49,490 --> 01:19:52,310
But as the best we can do to commemorate it on the side of the

807
01:19:52,310 --> 01:19:55,950
IT and freeway in concrete, which is what we've done so far.

808
01:19:56,970 --> 01:20:01,030
The recreation of value of this land, to the area citizens, is enormous.

809
01:20:01,030 --> 01:20:06,210
the Wildlife corridor, which this development sits a stride,

810
01:20:06,310 --> 01:20:11,730
links to the Jack Dangerment Lands in Yucapa and Redlands in the Mento and Hills.

811
01:20:12,530 --> 01:20:16,150
I could attest to the mountain lion and deer being there.

812
01:20:16,750 --> 01:20:20,710
The mountain lion has killed quite a few of my sheep,

813
01:20:21,730 --> 01:20:22,970
which I no longer run.

814
01:20:23,770 --> 01:20:26,630
We used to do many things that weren't so smart.

815
01:20:27,390 --> 01:20:27,910
We are learning.

816
01:20:27,910 --> 01:20:31,470
perhaps we should stop building houses in the wildland interface.

817
01:20:32,650 --> 01:20:36,570
Luckily, we have averted a wildfire disaster so far.

818
01:20:39,210 --> 01:20:43,170
I would add that the fire department of which I used to be in the fire service has never

819
01:20:43,170 --> 01:20:47,770
met a development that they don't approve of for tax, tax revenue reasons.

820
01:20:49,310 --> 01:20:56,530
The erosion fiasco due to the oak month, adjacent development, has never been remedied

821
01:20:56,530 --> 01:21:04,810
as the previous speaker said, over a dozen oak trees have been lost so far and we continue

822
01:21:04,810 --> 01:21:06,150
to lose them.

823
01:21:06,750 --> 01:21:12,050
Developers do have a habit of absconding on this issue once they've got the thing built.

824
01:21:12,890 --> 01:21:14,910
What we need in this town is affordable housing.

825
01:21:14,990 --> 01:21:24,370
More density downtown in infill, we even need apartment housing, of course, that's in

826
01:21:24,370 --> 01:21:31,170
touchable, the homeless case, what we need, they're growing. Are we really doing the right thing

827
01:21:31,170 --> 01:21:37,690
by building more fluid housing? It just doesn't pencil out. I know. So it doesn't get built.

828
01:21:39,230 --> 01:21:45,930
So I thank you for your consideration and do your job. Thank you very much.

829
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:51,960
Mr. McClamart.

830
01:21:57,810 --> 01:21:59,270
My name is Theresa McClamart.

831
01:21:59,430 --> 01:22:02,490
As he just said, and good afternoon, commissioners.

832
01:22:02,970 --> 01:22:03,530
And chair.

833
01:22:04,430 --> 01:22:05,550
And thank you for your time.

834
01:22:05,830 --> 01:22:09,090
And as other people have said, you have the power here.

835
01:22:09,210 --> 01:22:11,250
You have the power to do so much.

836
01:22:11,730 --> 01:22:18,330
And this room is reflective of a very large segment of

837
01:22:18,330 --> 01:22:21,230
Redlands, not everybody can be here at four o'clock.

838
01:22:21,230 --> 01:22:31,670
But I'll get into my, what I want to say, the biological assessment or feel survey for this area was done around 2001 to 2002.

839
01:22:33,170 --> 01:22:40,270
This report was compiled at a time when many of the plants have no flowers, which were not in bloom.

840
01:22:40,870 --> 01:22:48,990
They are not in bloom making positive identification of plants unreliable in many cases.

841
01:22:48,990 --> 01:22:55,110
This is especially concerning when it applies to sensitive plant material in the area.

842
01:22:57,480 --> 01:23:01,060
It's over 20 years old, that assessment.

843
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:07,060
The environmental impact report is also very old 18 years, I believe.

844
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:15,480
Many things have transpired in this period, such as erosion from the oakmont through the oakmont development.

845
01:23:15,480 --> 01:23:24,580
drought, water shortages, possible establishment, and decline plant populations within this area.

846
01:23:25,420 --> 01:23:30,800
One specific area of concern for me as I'm a horticulturist, retired from the University

847
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:32,240
of California Riverside.

848
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:37,760
One specific area of concern is the Quarcus Agrofolio, or Coastal Live Oak, in the area,

849
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:45,560
as a prior-speaker addressed and Quarcus Beberfolia, which is a scrub oak, which can get quite

850
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:46,920
tall as in the tree.

851
01:23:48,020 --> 01:23:56,320
In examining the proposed track, it appears that the project streets will pass very close and

852
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:58,320
possibly through these populations.

853
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:07,120
There is also a cluster of Quarcus Beberfolia, at the top of the ridge on the proposed

854
01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:16,600
post-development. Quarcus oaks, or oaks do not tolerate changes in natural water exposure,

855
01:24:17,660 --> 01:24:26,420
runoff, pooling, and such. Oaks do not tolerate soil disturbance, grating, or compaction

856
01:24:26,420 --> 01:24:33,640
anywhere near their surface or feeder roots. The water retention basin at the low point

857
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:39,590
development is a location where we have a concentration of

858
01:24:40,950 --> 01:24:44,750
oaks. The plant populations in this area are also essential for

859
01:24:44,750 --> 01:24:51,610
habitat for mammal species reptile, avian, and insect species. Some of

860
01:24:51,610 --> 01:24:55,610
these mammals, such as the mountain line which we've seen quite a bit of, I

861
01:24:55,610 --> 01:25:01,410
think a few people will attach to that, and the fox which isn't mentioned

862
01:25:01,410 --> 01:25:08,750
anywhere are protected, avian species are protected by the state of California, yellow

863
01:25:08,750 --> 01:25:16,590
warbler protected by the Migratory Treaty Act, and least, Bell's Virio are federally protected.

864
01:25:17,170 --> 01:25:21,490
These are just a few of the animals that use this area.

865
01:25:21,850 --> 01:25:22,650
It's their habitat.

866
01:25:23,470 --> 01:25:23,950
Thank you.

867
01:25:29,390 --> 01:25:30,090
Guy Denton?

868
01:25:40,440 --> 01:25:41,520
Hello Chairman, Council.

869
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:42,860
I'm Guy Denton.

870
01:25:43,480 --> 01:25:45,900
I'm new to Redlands, I moved here about two years ago.

871
01:25:45,900 --> 01:25:47,620
I took a job at Patton State Hospital,

872
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:49,200
it's a forensic mental institution.

873
01:25:49,740 --> 01:25:51,840
It deal with basically down the line,

874
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:53,700
impact with drugs, mental health,

875
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:54,820
various other things.

876
01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:57,380
It was during the time of COVID-19.

877
01:25:57,540 --> 01:26:00,920
So I was quarantined, my mental health deteriorated, right?

878
01:26:01,420 --> 01:26:03,440
I thought I was gonna end up in that hospital.

879
01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:06,840
So, you know, my wife, who is my rock,

880
01:26:07,140 --> 01:26:08,960
encourage me to get back in touch with nature.

881
01:26:09,780 --> 01:26:10,960
So I bought a bicycle,

882
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:19,100
Redlins is a cycling community. I found community here. My wife's advice. Yeah, so I

883
01:26:19,100 --> 01:26:25,280
embraced cycling as a coping mechanism. It allowed me an outlet to channel my frustrations and a productive manner

884
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:28,250
So I was taking that out of people and various other things

885
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:33,260
I decided to go to Oakmont because a lot of the writing out here is very very difficult

886
01:26:33,260 --> 01:26:39,500
Oakmont was beginner friendly and it was extremely beautiful and just constantly when I'm there

887
01:26:39,500 --> 01:26:44,740
I'm just seeing people enjoying it, children getting pictures taken, all kinds of various

888
01:26:44,740 --> 01:26:46,500
other stuff along that area.

889
01:26:46,980 --> 01:26:50,080
And I thought the whole corridor was predicted, I didn't know it was going to be a massive

890
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:51,740
development going on.

891
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:56,060
And I'm in a market for a home, so I should be in favor of the land developer.

892
01:26:56,460 --> 01:26:59,760
However, I have fell in love with this land and it's really, really beautiful.

893
01:27:01,480 --> 01:27:05,560
So if the zoning goes forward, more houses, which benefit those with high incomes will be developed

894
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:12,240
that the cost of indigenous lands and open access-based degradation, the coyotes that serenade

895
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:16,760
me during beautiful sunsets will become back your pets alongside the host of non-native

896
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:18,540
wildlife that follows most developments.

897
01:27:19,100 --> 01:27:24,060
In closing, please in our place of views, pun intended, of wealthy home buyers over the habitat

898
01:27:24,060 --> 01:27:27,100
of redlands natives, both residents, flora, and fauna.

899
01:27:27,460 --> 01:27:27,940
Thank you.

900
01:27:35,190 --> 01:27:35,590
Brian, who?

901
01:27:46,710 --> 01:27:50,690
So thank you, Commission, for picking up this issue, I think, what we hear from public

902
01:27:50,690 --> 01:27:56,090
comments is that Live O Canyon means a lot to a lot of people and I think it means a lot to

903
01:27:56,090 --> 01:27:56,490
Redlins.

904
01:27:56,810 --> 01:28:02,130
It's really a jewel of Redlins and when we decide on a major intrusion in the canyon,

905
01:28:02,130 --> 01:28:04,850
I think this just means that we need to do so with a abundant care.

906
01:28:05,950 --> 01:28:07,710
So the decision you have before you is hard.

907
01:28:08,230 --> 01:28:11,350
So what I do when I have hard decisions, I think more information helps.

908
01:28:11,530 --> 01:28:12,770
I think more knowledge helps.

909
01:28:12,830 --> 01:28:17,390
So I'm going to help propose three things about the canyon that I think might help the

910
01:28:17,390 --> 01:28:17,670
commission.

911
01:28:17,670 --> 01:28:23,130
Number one is my personal observations and the observations of the other people in the audience is the

912
01:28:23,130 --> 01:28:30,270
canning is changing. The erosion, you know, I run there and bike there often. This is definitely a

913
01:28:30,270 --> 01:28:35,670
corridor when I hear the staff report saying that, oh, this level of erosion. It's not within the area.

914
01:28:35,950 --> 01:28:40,930
This is all connected. This is a canyon. This is a wildlife. And so I think that part of the staff report,

915
01:28:41,170 --> 01:28:46,990
I feel strong. I disagree with strongly. Number two, what has changed is climate change.

916
01:28:46,990 --> 01:28:48,330
I think the world is changing.

917
01:28:48,910 --> 01:28:50,770
Paradise was five years ago.

918
01:28:50,910 --> 01:28:53,270
That was a town about the same size as our town

919
01:28:53,270 --> 01:28:54,510
and it got wiped off.

920
01:28:54,910 --> 01:28:57,750
So what we think, or what we thought in 2004,

921
01:28:58,330 --> 01:28:59,370
is radically different.

922
01:29:00,170 --> 01:29:03,230
And so I think the third thing is we are very different.

923
01:29:04,110 --> 01:29:07,470
If I did what I did in my job 18 years ago,

924
01:29:07,590 --> 01:29:08,790
I'd be very bad in my job.

925
01:29:09,270 --> 01:29:12,170
So how we interpret and how we plan cities

926
01:29:12,170 --> 01:29:14,450
is very different from 18 years ago.

927
01:29:14,470 --> 01:29:16,770
And I think that's probably the biggest takeaway here

928
01:29:16,770 --> 01:29:26,930
Yes, we can debate if the canyon is different if it's significant or not in the impacts and where it is, but I think we can't debate that we as humans understand the world better

929
01:29:26,930 --> 01:29:38,930
We understand planning better. We understand water mitigation fire mitigation better, and I think that's what we as humans are strengths and why this commission should reject the proposal

930
01:29:39,570 --> 01:29:41,270
Thanks. Thank you.

931
01:29:46,060 --> 01:29:46,920
Do you go Alba?

932
01:29:50,430 --> 01:29:51,010
Do you go Alba?

933
01:29:53,100 --> 01:29:56,760
Okay, he has submitted a written comment. Are you do you go?

934
01:29:58,690 --> 01:29:59,970
Oh, I'm sorry, picked up the...

935
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:13,820
The next development. There are so many where heavens go through that. All right. That concludes slips that I have or comments that I have slips for. Is there anyone else in the audience that did not? Yes, ma

936
01:30:18,490 --> 01:30:30,630
'am. Also, while we have an audience member approaching, if there is anyone listening online that intends to make a comment, please use your hands up feature on this in connection. Please share your name.

937
01:30:30,630 --> 01:30:39,040
Yes, my name is Brenda Spulstra. I am a resident of Redlands. I moved to my parents moved to

938
01:30:39,630 --> 01:30:46,990
Bedford Drive, which is off southernland in 1974, and so I'm very familiar with the canyon.

939
01:30:47,850 --> 01:30:52,850
It's where I played in the early 80s until like the mid-80s, so I just aged myself.

940
01:30:54,850 --> 01:31:00,350
And this Sunday I took a walk to kind of say goodbye to this area because I don't know what's coming.

941
01:31:00,630 --> 01:31:13,850
And I saw a cougar across my path, so I think that in some ways the natural environment is protecting itself, because it's saying we're here, and please don't disturb our home.

942
01:31:14,710 --> 01:31:30,570
But the other aspect is I have a degree in urban and regional planning, so I looked at the regional housing needs assessment for residents, and this report was done by Brian Hub and the planning.

943
01:31:32,070 --> 01:31:41,810
staff and we are currently 402 units surplus for the high-end housing need assessment.

944
01:31:42,770 --> 01:31:46,390
So there is no need for these

945
01:31:48,690 --> 01:31:49,150
houses.

946
01:31:49,970 --> 01:32:00,310
The other thing is the reason why we zone land is so we can differentiate between neighborhoods.

947
01:32:02,310 --> 01:32:08,290
But as planners, you also know that it's the adjacency that is important.

948
01:32:09,470 --> 01:32:13,730
The boundaries that are drawn on paper are not the boundaries in real life.

949
01:32:14,570 --> 01:32:21,470
So as you analyze projects, it's the adjacency that the ordinance doesn't always address.

950
01:32:21,470 --> 01:32:32,670
So this is your burden to analyze the adjacency to this which is a wildlife corridor, which I saw this Sunday,

951
01:32:34,770 --> 01:32:44,530
because like other zones like commercial zones, we can build a liquor store if we want, but we can't build it if it's right next to an elementary school.

952
01:32:45,230 --> 01:32:52,890
So, we can build houses if we want, but we shouldn't build them right next to wildlife corridors.

953
01:32:53,350 --> 01:32:54,250
Thank you.

954
01:33:01,260 --> 01:33:06,460
All right, and I want to assume participants, Wendy Rae, or Wendy Rae?

955
01:33:11,710 --> 01:33:12,970
Yes, Wendy Rae, thank you.

956
01:33:13,990 --> 01:33:16,090
I think I'm a little bit of background.

957
01:33:16,090 --> 01:33:22,270
I am a bad student with an emphasis in landscape and environmental arts

958
01:33:22,270 --> 01:33:24,890
technology and a decent engagement.

959
01:33:25,790 --> 01:33:28,250
I actually intended to say something completely different this

960
01:33:28,250 --> 01:33:31,210
evening, but in the interest of time.

961
01:33:31,830 --> 01:33:35,330
And because of some of the sincere questions that were asked,

962
01:33:35,910 --> 01:33:37,470
I think by the planning commission,

963
01:33:38,490 --> 01:33:42,230
I would like to just kind of address a few points to begin here.

964
01:33:42,230 --> 01:33:48,710
also a reminder that the commission can of course ask any questions I would be willing to answer

965
01:33:49,350 --> 01:33:54,490
because of my background in archaeology. To address the city's comments regarding the

966
01:33:54,490 --> 01:33:59,730
Sequo code, I just want to come back to something in section three. This is really, I think what

967
01:33:59,730 --> 01:34:05,070
you're hearing argued over and over, new information of substantial importance, which was not known

968
01:34:05,070 --> 01:34:11,250
and could not have been known. I mean, this is really what people are arguing here and it's not just

969
01:34:12,130 --> 01:34:15,690
Clearly, Nimbee, I don't even live anywhere near this development.

970
01:34:16,190 --> 01:34:20,550
You have comments from all over the country, the Zerpsi Society, the Center for Biological

971
01:34:20,550 --> 01:34:26,070
Diversity, two different sets of attorneys, giving you strong legal comments that the

972
01:34:26,070 --> 01:34:30,130
things that the city is laying out in terms of the legalities of your procedural votes

973
01:34:30,130 --> 01:34:32,910
are not correct, that the extensions have not been correct.

974
01:34:33,190 --> 01:34:38,090
And so, as prior commenters, I would request, especially that the planning commission take

975
01:34:38,090 --> 01:34:45,570
time to review those documents. I know they're quite thick. I also wanted to address some

976
01:34:45,570 --> 01:34:55,370
of the questions that I think are archologically specific to the areas around the chief glyph.

977
01:34:56,510 --> 01:35:03,560
I want to emphasize that there was a letter that spoke specifically in the 2005 EIR that you

978
01:35:03,560 --> 01:35:09,420
not destroy, that in 30 years of doing this work, Dr. Von Hulf said that he had never seen

979
01:35:09,420 --> 01:35:16,460
a J-Gliff that could not be verified by accurate surveys. And a 15-meter pedestrian survey

980
01:35:16,460 --> 01:35:24,820
is just pathetic. I have spent my summer in the ground at Jefferson's Monochello reassembling

981
01:35:24,820 --> 01:35:32,080
plouson. And the truth is under that plouson. And none of the contemporary methodologies

982
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:34,260
that are appropriate to be utilized here.

983
01:35:34,260 --> 01:35:36,460
I have been utilized, and that would include

984
01:35:36,460 --> 01:35:41,560
light, art, photogrammetry, so much has changed.

985
01:35:42,300 --> 01:35:45,100
You have the voice of the indigenous laying this out for you.

986
01:35:45,240 --> 01:35:49,500
You have archaeologists experts that we frankly didn't listen to.

987
01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:53,800
And I would add that is a category for secret trigger that if something

988
01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:57,320
was insufficiently covered in the EIR, it should be attacked again.

989
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:00,680
And I think you have the indigenous community saying to you,

990
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:07,660
That was not sufficient. That is clear. And you have legal responses backing them. And just

991
01:36:07,660 --> 01:36:14,800
enclosing, I would say, I just want to reiterate that the legality here is that we are all,

992
01:36:14,800 --> 01:36:20,400
I spent a good deal of time going through records, newspaper records, looking at the historical

993
01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:25,020
record as a historical archaeologist. I'd like to tell you that at the end of the day,

994
01:36:25,900 --> 01:36:30,380
when your children and great grandchildren are going back and looking at the things you made the

995
01:36:30,380 --> 01:36:37,460
decision on what you put your signature to. There's not going to be a city standing in front of you

996
01:36:37,460 --> 01:36:43,060
or a city attorney explaining why you did that. It will just be you making that decision. It's

997
01:36:43,060 --> 01:36:49,860
your name. And I just want to implore the commission as an archeological professional. Look at

998
01:36:49,860 --> 01:36:56,900
the content of this EIR and the people. I understand that this is an insufficient process. Thank you

999
01:36:56,900 --> 01:36:59,300
much for your time. Thank you.

1000
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:10,940
And are there any more online comments? Seeing none. I

1001
01:37:10,940 --> 01:37:17,060
went to give an opportunity for the applicant to respond to public comment. No comment

1002
01:37:17,060 --> 01:37:17,600
from the applicant.

1003
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:26,180
Okay. Is that Joe? Could you please give us your phone name please?

1004
01:37:29,180 --> 01:37:37,120
Yes, my name is Joseph Onterveros. I'm the tribalist sport preservation officer for the

1005
01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:39,640
We have committed specifically related to this project.

1006
01:37:42,080 --> 01:37:45,240
Last hearing we were able to attend, virtually.

1007
01:37:46,500 --> 01:37:51,040
We have requested that the city reach out to us to arrange discussions

1008
01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:57,460
as we had no formal record of any correspondence in accordance

1009
01:37:57,460 --> 01:38:04,480
with SB18 or AB52 for this project, obviously, to older project.

1010
01:38:04,480 --> 01:38:13,760
We did receive a rather informal email from a Brian foot stating to please provide additional information

1011
01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:19,820
any written documents and information for evidence, maps, exhibits, ethnography notes, oral histories, and so forth.

1012
01:38:21,820 --> 01:38:29,700
And we did respond back to Mr. Foot reminding him that information that we maintain would be disclosed to the agency in confidence,

1013
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:32,460
although that opportunity has not been granted.

1014
01:38:32,460 --> 01:38:36,680
There's tons of information, substantial information that the tribe has prepared to share,

1015
01:38:36,680 --> 01:38:38,240
although that information is protected.

1016
01:38:39,780 --> 01:38:45,580
And again, we still have no record of formal correspondence or communication with regard

1017
01:38:45,580 --> 01:38:47,120
to applicable law.

1018
01:38:47,860 --> 01:38:53,580
With that being said, we again request that the city reach out, that discussions are arranged,

1019
01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:58,040
and if necessary, that those formal notifications are circulated, even though they're after

1020
01:38:58,040 --> 01:38:58,500
the fact.

1021
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:03,820
But yeah, with that being said, we look forward to hearing back from the city, thank you.

1022
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:04,640
Thank you.

1023
01:39:11,010 --> 01:39:11,410
All right.

1024
01:39:12,170 --> 01:39:23,950
With that under the format, the public hearing is closed and commissioners discussion on the proposal or items that we've heard.

1025
01:39:26,050 --> 01:39:31,990
Seeing none, I'd like to ask the city attorney if she is able to address the questions of

1026
01:39:31,990 --> 01:39:37,990
legality in the EIR over this much time having passed since it was originally having been

1027
01:39:37,990 --> 01:39:45,790
conducted and how that is taken into a valuation with this much passage of time.

1028
01:39:46,650 --> 01:39:54,490
I think the staff report adequately lays out the standard of which you would evaluate the EIR

1029
01:39:54,490 --> 01:39:56,890
in light of all the time that's passed.

1030
01:39:56,890 --> 01:40:06,230
The criteria is there in your staff report, substantial evidence, and the criteria for evaluating

1031
01:40:06,230 --> 01:40:12,770
whether a new EIR supplemental would be appropriate here, so I refer you back to your staff report.

1032
01:40:12,870 --> 01:40:19,590
That would be the standard to evaluate your EIR to determine whether that criteria has been met.

1033
01:40:20,590 --> 01:40:21,770
Thank you.

1034
01:40:24,590 --> 01:40:26,410
Again, commissioners, commissioners, endlessly.

1035
01:40:27,470 --> 01:40:31,650
We're in discussion now, so I thought I'd just share some thoughts I had

1036
01:40:31,650 --> 01:40:32,870
thought on right down.

1037
01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:39,260
Yeah, I disagree with some of the sentiments in the staff report, I think that was obvious

1038
01:40:39,260 --> 01:40:40,120
with some of my questioning.

1039
01:40:40,280 --> 01:40:44,220
I believe there's significant evidence of substantial changes since the originally I

1040
01:40:44,220 --> 01:40:50,040
are prepared 20 years ago, including the introduction of AB-52, which clearly was

1041
01:40:50,040 --> 01:40:55,760
part of the requirement for an ER at the time, and I believe it should be today.

1042
01:40:56,460 --> 01:41:00,540
I believe a new EIR should be very, for the project site with new standards for tribal

1043
01:41:00,540 --> 01:41:04,700
cultural resources evaluation, as well as a reevaluation of other environmental impacts.

1044
01:41:04,700 --> 01:41:06,420
I will not be voting for an extension.

1045
01:41:13,410 --> 01:41:14,210
Commissioner Wells.

1046
01:41:16,660 --> 01:41:22,500
I just wanted to echo Commissioner Ensley's statement, and unfortunately we have to rely

1047
01:41:22,500 --> 01:41:28,780
staff to give us the best information in, you know, in the documents prepare, but with having

1048
01:41:28,780 --> 01:41:32,720
three tribes present tonight commenting still that they are in disagreement with your findings.

1049
01:41:33,460 --> 01:41:36,020
I also am not prepared to vote yes on a succession.

1050
01:41:41,270 --> 01:41:41,930
Mr. Nusha.

1051
01:41:43,530 --> 01:41:44,070
Which one?

1052
01:41:44,310 --> 01:41:44,770
Commissioner.

1053
01:41:45,170 --> 01:41:45,830
Oh, yes.

1054
01:41:46,650 --> 01:41:47,910
You have a new title now.

1055
01:41:49,410 --> 01:41:54,470
And keeping with those and some of the questions I asked earlier, I just, I'm not comfortable with

1056
01:41:54,470 --> 01:41:58,710
2005 EAR, I know that it mentioned that, you know, through the stipulated agreement that

1057
01:41:58,710 --> 01:42:04,170
it was valid or with nothing being done since 2014 being kind of the latest date relative

1058
01:42:04,170 --> 01:42:08,550
to that stipulation, I think that eight years passing is a significant amount of time.

1059
01:42:09,250 --> 01:42:14,150
As a lot of people mentioned, a lot of things have changed and so I would only be supportive

1060
01:42:14,150 --> 01:42:18,390
if we would go down the path of doing something with the EAR to make it more contemporary

1061
01:42:18,390 --> 01:42:22,470
with current information that we have before I would support it.

1062
01:42:22,470 --> 01:42:23,270
Thank you.

1063
01:42:23,590 --> 01:42:23,890
Commissioner Gonzalez.

1064
01:42:25,070 --> 01:42:25,270
Chair.

1065
01:42:29,530 --> 01:42:36,450
Before we get more people wane in, I just wanted to comment, if the commission is inclined

1066
01:42:37,570 --> 01:42:44,890
to deny this extension request, our process is going to be, we're going to listen to your

1067
01:42:44,890 --> 01:42:51,110
rationale and reasons and we hope you'll be as specific as possible, particularly tying them

1068
01:42:51,110 --> 01:42:55,850
to the criteria that are outlined in the staff report,

1069
01:42:56,450 --> 01:43:00,590
we will then incorporate those into a resolution

1070
01:43:00,590 --> 01:43:04,030
and bring it back at the next meeting for vote

1071
01:43:04,030 --> 01:43:05,010
by the Commission.

1072
01:43:06,250 --> 01:43:12,830
That's our normal process when we go to deny a project

1073
01:43:12,830 --> 01:43:17,370
is to document it and bring it, bring a resolution back.

1074
01:43:17,370 --> 01:43:26,970
And make sure that we have the rationale and we'll be able to articulate it and put it

1075
01:43:26,970 --> 01:43:32,170
in writing and have the commission review it one more time before finalizing the vote

1076
01:43:32,170 --> 01:43:33,170
to deny.

1077
01:43:35,090 --> 01:43:35,730
Is she going to pause?

1078
01:43:37,470 --> 01:43:42,670
When I read the staff report, I thought, okay, it seems like all the eyes were dotted and

1079
01:43:42,670 --> 01:43:50,050
were crossed. But hearing all the public comments, it definitely changed my mind. More specifically,

1080
01:43:50,490 --> 01:43:57,610
the new AB 52, I believe that that should be addressed. And the fact that the EIRs over

1081
01:43:57,610 --> 01:44:03,270
or 18 years old, it probably should be again. I'm hoping that's fairly specific.

1082
01:44:09,510 --> 01:44:16,790
Vice Chair Shaw. Thank you. First, I want to state that I, you know, this is really hard

1083
01:44:16,790 --> 01:44:22,510
and see what doesn't make it easy with terms like enough, relevant, fair, significant,

1084
01:44:22,730 --> 01:44:28,730
clearly reasonable. Those are very difficult terms to measure. They're not very easily measured.

1085
01:44:30,530 --> 01:44:36,550
With that said, I have a specific question for the city attorney in regards to the communications

1086
01:44:36,550 --> 01:44:40,450
from the tribal representatives and the disconnect with their comfortable,

1087
01:44:40,450 --> 01:44:47,330
ability sharing information with us when there is no legal protection from their point of view

1088
01:44:47,330 --> 01:44:52,030
in place. And I would like to know, that's my first question, how you feel about that.

1089
01:44:53,290 --> 01:44:59,730
I think that that is something the planning commission can weigh in light of what was said today.

1090
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:06,820
And way that, and give that it's appropriate weight in making your decision. Again, as we mentioned,

1091
01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:14,100
there was effort by city staff to reach out to them. But the planning condition has to weigh that.

1092
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:23,020
Is that, was that adequate? Could you have received the information to make the sequel analysis and make those determinations?

1093
01:45:23,320 --> 01:45:24,760
That's up to the planning commission.

1094
01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:30,360
Okay, and then my second question is probably for Mr. Descent and what are our options here?

1095
01:45:30,860 --> 01:45:37,300
So do we have to approve or deny there was a 60-day extension that clearly expires tomorrow?

1096
01:45:38,120 --> 01:45:40,380
Do we have the ability to say, hey, we're not ready?

1097
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:46,000
We need more information or does that only come in the form of the denial where the applicant has to start over?

1098
01:45:46,780 --> 01:45:48,540
What can we do here?

1099
01:45:54,200 --> 01:46:18,780
We are, as was indicated, we are on a deadline which is the 60-day extension period actually expires tomorrow, so if it is not approved tonight, we will assume that it will be denied and will bring back at the Nile Resolution to formalize that at the next meeting.

1100
01:46:18,780 --> 01:46:26,380
So we have no ability to say we're not ready yet, we need more information, specifically based

1101
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:34,180
on the tribal representatives feeling like there is more significant data to present.

1102
01:46:39,940 --> 01:46:40,200
Okay.

1103
01:46:40,200 --> 01:46:41,200
We'll have to make a decision.

1104
01:46:42,180 --> 01:46:46,160
And what we'll bring back is just the resolution for denial.

1105
01:46:46,500 --> 01:46:50,280
And then remember in the code, there's a right to appeal.

1106
01:46:50,660 --> 01:46:53,460
That appeal time will run when you adopt that resolution.

1107
01:46:53,460 --> 01:47:02,340
The way the code's written is that the planning mission must make findings and only what you do that is a group is by adopting a resolution

1108
01:47:02,340 --> 01:47:13,100
So essentially the time period between today your decision today and that resolution pretty much stays everything until you adopt that resolution

1109
01:47:13,100 --> 01:47:17,800
Then the appeal time period runs from the date you adopt that resolution

1110
01:47:17,800 --> 01:47:25,820
Okay, so typically where we could possibly continue a matter for more information, because of this extension deadline, we are not able to do that tonight.

1111
01:47:26,300 --> 01:47:36,920
What you're going to do tonight is you're going to put on the record your reasons for denial and direct staff to bring back a resolution of denial.

1112
01:47:37,460 --> 01:47:38,760
That's what you're going to do tonight.

1113
01:47:39,300 --> 01:47:43,640
And then the next available meeting, you will see that resolution of denial.

1114
01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:50,300
Okay. Thank you. That's really unfortunate. I wish we weren't up against this tight time frame. Thank you.

1115
01:47:51,200 --> 01:47:56,880
City Attorney. One of the tribal representatives also mentioned a lack of a government

1116
01:47:56,880 --> 01:48:03,060
government relationship with the city that they felt impaired their ability to be forthcoming

1117
01:48:03,060 --> 01:48:10,040
with the city. Is there any light that your director does that and I can put on give us on that?

1118
01:48:10,040 --> 01:48:12,380
I will defer to the staff on that.

1119
01:48:12,400 --> 01:48:15,160
I don't have an information to comment.

1120
01:48:16,380 --> 01:48:16,840
Don't know.

1121
01:48:17,460 --> 01:48:19,140
It's also the particulars of the correspondence

1122
01:48:19,140 --> 01:48:22,720
between the city staff and the tribe to be able to answer

1123
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:24,440
that question.

1124
01:48:25,500 --> 01:48:25,700
Anything?

1125
01:48:27,180 --> 01:48:27,980
All right.

1126
01:48:28,460 --> 01:48:32,280
Any other comment from commissioners?

1127
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:36,000
This one is a difficult one.

1128
01:48:36,220 --> 01:48:39,760
And it comes down to one of it is certainly

1129
01:48:39,760 --> 01:48:47,780
the passage of time. Certainly comes into play, especially when this development was originally

1130
01:48:47,780 --> 01:48:54,860
assessed and originally approved in terms of the ERR and its certification was a much larger

1131
01:48:54,860 --> 01:49:00,740
development than what we're looking at today. So there has been all kinds of mitigation steps

1132
01:49:00,740 --> 01:49:08,080
that have been dealt with through litigation and the stipulated judgment and re-examination

1133
01:49:08,080 --> 01:49:10,300
by citizen groups,

1134
01:49:12,480 --> 01:49:18,120
the property owner in the city, and then again another long passage of

1135
01:49:18,120 --> 01:49:18,520
time.

1136
01:49:19,020 --> 01:49:27,240
During that passage of time we've come to take a tribal input more to the forefront than

1137
01:49:27,240 --> 01:49:30,080
had been the case 17, 18 years ago.

1138
01:49:31,080 --> 01:49:38,060
We also have the additional concerns over climate change that has become much more apparent

1139
01:49:38,060 --> 01:49:42,000
with both storm events and fire.

1140
01:49:45,140 --> 01:49:47,920
So these are things that weigh on making a decision,

1141
01:49:47,940 --> 01:49:52,120
even with a very carefully crafted much, much smaller development

1142
01:49:52,120 --> 01:49:53,880
that we're looking at today.

1143
01:49:55,620 --> 01:49:59,080
Unfortunately, one of the things we on this panel here,

1144
01:50:00,240 --> 01:50:06,960
time and time again, is we've used this area that is an open space.

1145
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:13,740
We thought it was open space, we've always treated it as an open space, however, it's not.

1146
01:50:14,060 --> 01:50:23,040
It's private property that has been carefully crafted and developed and mitigated over a long

1147
01:50:23,040 --> 01:50:24,440
creative time.

1148
01:50:25,040 --> 01:50:30,960
And we don't have, for example, a nonprofit that wants to buy it from the private property

1149
01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:32,300
owner to donate to the city.

1150
01:50:32,960 --> 01:50:45,800
Which I know is the sentiment, I wish that all of us come from, and I know that we had a proposal in humor that they would like to be able to do that.

1151
01:50:46,860 --> 01:51:01,360
So we have a private property right of the applicant that they have made efforts to be as aware of the property around them,

1152
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:09,100
constraints of the topography, the drainage issues have certainly come up in their consideration.

1153
01:51:12,780 --> 01:51:21,580
And again, and that's not discounting the newer concerns that come into play, like the compassionate,

1154
01:51:22,240 --> 01:51:27,840
but still imprecise input that we've had from the tribal representatives that we know that there is a presence

1155
01:51:27,840 --> 01:51:31,860
in the canyon or in the immediate area, but it doesn't necessarily

1156
01:51:33,380 --> 01:51:37,740
zero in on the particular parcel at play.

1157
01:51:38,920 --> 01:51:42,900
So I get that we like the canyon.

1158
01:51:43,020 --> 01:51:44,900
I get that we don't want it to change.

1159
01:51:45,240 --> 01:51:47,620
I get that it's a beautiful open space.

1160
01:51:47,780 --> 01:51:51,960
I've hiked through the adjacent park area several times.

1161
01:51:52,520 --> 01:51:54,560
And I get that it's beautiful spot.

1162
01:51:55,700 --> 01:52:08,880
But when it comes to the findings, the substantial findings that you could put to paper and defend in a legal standpoint,

1163
01:52:10,180 --> 01:52:19,860
other than the concerns about things that have been looked at in the stipulated judgment and found to be still valid adequate within state law,

1164
01:52:19,860 --> 01:52:28,880
I am troubled that we don't get there to say no, and so I would welcome more observation

1165
01:52:28,880 --> 01:52:30,900
from my fellow commissioners in that regard.

1166
01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:32,700
Commissioner Anzley.

1167
01:52:34,260 --> 01:52:42,620
I do appreciate that sentiment where I come from is precisely how you started it, Chair,

1168
01:52:43,260 --> 01:52:51,100
that are sentiment in this community and in the state and this country has changed quite a bit.

1169
01:52:53,140 --> 01:52:56,700
And, you know, none of us at least, none of us on the commission it would seem.

1170
01:52:57,660 --> 01:53:01,720
We're present to know what the process of that EIR looked like,

1171
01:53:03,180 --> 01:53:05,020
what engagement had happened at that time.

1172
01:53:05,260 --> 01:53:10,320
And we certainly do know, which is what I'm at in my confidence level,

1173
01:53:10,320 --> 01:53:15,020
We do know that the guidelines for an EIR has changed substantially.

1174
01:53:16,360 --> 01:53:24,360
If for no other evaluation other than AB 52 and tribal resources, and knowing that it

1175
01:53:24,360 --> 01:53:30,720
wasn't required but some an attempt was made, but not necessarily what would stand up

1176
01:53:30,720 --> 01:53:38,380
to the standards of today back when the original EIR was made, knowing that that had happened

1177
01:53:38,380 --> 01:53:43,160
is nice, but it doesn't necessarily, it may be legal, it may be okay, but doesn't make it

1178
01:53:43,160 --> 01:53:44,220
right in my mind.

1179
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:50,340
I think that we've heard a lot of evidence today, certainly from the people I think would

1180
01:53:50,340 --> 01:53:55,800
be most interested in weighing in on that particular subject, that they are in disagreement

1181
01:53:55,800 --> 01:53:59,680
with the EIR, which is a more reason for me to think that something has substantially changed,

1182
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:04,260
and maybe it just simply was conveniently overlooked then, but I don't know, so that's

1183
01:54:04,260 --> 01:54:05,140
my confidence level.

1184
01:54:05,140 --> 01:54:24,920
I think that we see a little bit more of that and I do appreciate efforts made by staff but as I alluded to earlier, the standard for which they would be allowed to comment in a standard EIR today as far more than two weeks there would be supposedly some additional protections offered.

1185
01:54:25,900 --> 01:54:32,660
If there was some sort of an agreement, or an official EIR with the AB 52 SB 18 undertaken.

1186
01:54:33,460 --> 01:54:42,100
And because that doesn't exist, there's a lot of concern I have on whether or not we're doing the right thing there.

1187
01:54:42,540 --> 01:54:46,620
I think simply put it, you know, this is an extension of one year extension.

1188
01:54:48,260 --> 01:54:51,040
You know, it's a continued something that was decided on 20 years ago.

1189
01:54:51,480 --> 01:54:57,000
For me, it's, you know, we're not saying no that this project can exist, and I'm simply

1190
01:54:57,000 --> 01:55:02,380
from the point that it may be it's okay to exist, but let's go ahead and make sure.

1191
01:55:02,660 --> 01:55:08,020
Let's look at a new EER, the NIA one year extension under the 20 year old one, and all the stipulated

1192
01:55:08,020 --> 01:55:10,960
judgment that came with it, and say, let's start a fresh.

1193
01:55:11,040 --> 01:55:15,620
Make sure that we're doing the right thing, and we may very well come up with a project that looks

1194
01:55:15,620 --> 01:55:18,640
very similar, not exactly the same, but at least we'll be confident.

1195
01:55:18,640 --> 01:55:22,140
I'll be confident that we aren't overlooking substantial evidence.

1196
01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:23,900
So I'm on the other end of the spectrum.

1197
01:55:24,100 --> 01:55:27,240
A concern that are we not legally there, it's a deny.

1198
01:55:27,700 --> 01:55:30,120
I actually have a concern that we're not legally there to approve.

1199
01:55:37,270 --> 01:55:37,790
Vice-Chair Shah?

1200
01:55:39,390 --> 01:55:40,150
A couple more questions.

1201
01:55:40,630 --> 01:55:44,850
OK, so what's before us is a map extension on a project.

1202
01:55:44,970 --> 01:55:48,870
If a project, if we approve the map extension and a project

1203
01:55:48,870 --> 01:55:57,050
comes through for approval, do the treble representatives have any authority at that point

1204
01:55:57,050 --> 01:55:58,510
to come back with their concerns?

1205
01:56:04,100 --> 01:56:07,800
The project is approved, so this is an extension of an approval.

1206
01:56:08,060 --> 01:56:14,360
There's no, if the extension is granted, there's no future approval because the project

1207
01:56:14,360 --> 01:56:15,100
is approved.

1208
01:56:15,760 --> 01:56:23,040
So no, there would be no process at that point to involve the tribes.

1209
01:56:23,040 --> 01:56:30,620
Okay. So now I need to understand what the repercussions of either approval or denial of.

1210
01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:37,100
So if we deny this, they have approval rights, which what is that process?

1211
01:56:37,640 --> 01:56:41,900
The applicant can appeal the denial. Correct?

1212
01:56:42,040 --> 01:56:42,980
That's correct, yes.

1213
01:56:43,060 --> 01:56:48,400
So what happens then, where does that go to in what other agencies look at that?

1214
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:52,340
I would go to the City Council for the appeal hearing.

1215
01:56:53,980 --> 01:56:55,900
Okay, and then how long do they have?

1216
01:56:59,320 --> 01:57:05,660
We usually schedule it for the the soonest available meeting that we can prepare a report for.

1217
01:57:07,830 --> 01:57:14,130
Okay, so not necessarily enough time to work out any potential issues that we're looking at today.

1218
01:57:15,010 --> 01:57:16,270
Okay, all right, thank you.

1219
01:57:16,390 --> 01:57:21,030
I'm just trying to weigh the entire process here.

1220
01:57:21,030 --> 01:57:21,950
Thank you.

1221
01:57:22,130 --> 01:57:22,910
Commissioner Smith.

1222
01:57:23,790 --> 01:57:29,070
And this is more of a, I guess, a question for staff in reading over this letter from

1223
01:57:29,890 --> 01:57:31,470
a previous Franklin Shuttle.

1224
01:57:31,950 --> 01:57:35,550
There's a comment on the bottom here that it started out at 180 acres and it's, they've

1225
01:57:35,550 --> 01:57:39,490
literally mitigated this down 80 percent, it's down to 36.

1226
01:57:40,390 --> 01:57:41,270
Is that figure correct?

1227
01:57:49,340 --> 01:57:51,320
Yes, they are, that the 30,

1228
01:57:54,220 --> 01:57:57,300
they're down to 24 lots, is that what you're referring to?

1229
01:57:57,300 --> 01:58:03,440
Well, I guess my question is, is this truly a landowner that is said, I hear the concerns

1230
01:58:03,440 --> 01:58:12,020
of the community and his has relinquished up to 80% of the original project and there's still

1231
01:58:12,020 --> 01:58:13,940
a question that people want more.

1232
01:58:15,160 --> 01:58:20,340
The information in this letter is accurate as far as I can tell, but that answers my question.

1233
01:58:21,820 --> 01:58:22,740
I'm sure no one else.

1234
01:58:23,320 --> 01:58:29,040
Thank you. Yes, I actually was prepared to come here tonight or when we got our packet.

1235
01:58:29,240 --> 01:58:33,460
I was thinking that all of our questions that staff would take those back and we get them

1236
01:58:33,460 --> 01:58:37,300
all resolved and, you know, private property rights would go on and I was assuming it would

1237
01:58:37,300 --> 01:58:43,760
probably get approved but I'm just not feeling confident that the tribes feel confident in this

1238
01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:47,540
project and they've communicated to us tonight that they don't feel that it's an appropriate

1239
01:58:47,540 --> 01:58:51,580
mechanism in place to communicate those significant changes that have occurred.

1240
01:58:51,580 --> 01:58:56,240
So I'm with the commissioner, endlessly, that I think that we need to be listening or closely

1241
01:58:56,240 --> 01:59:01,560
to those concerns and also get that mechanism set up before we can confidently move forward

1242
01:59:01,560 --> 01:59:03,520
in approving an extension on this.

1243
01:59:08,700 --> 01:59:16,700
Just to clarify from points of legality, Director, you've mentioned that this project has been

1244
01:59:16,700 --> 01:59:26,460
approved previously by the standards in place at the time it was approved and with the

1245
01:59:26,460 --> 01:59:35,280
play that has tried to be addressed, I think, someone informally, because it was not part

1246
01:59:35,280 --> 01:59:44,540
of the process at the time, how does that come into play? Does any update required like

1247
01:59:44,540 --> 01:59:48,140
retroactively or anything like that from a legal standpoint,

1248
01:59:50,500 --> 01:59:51,580
on the tribal consultation?

1249
01:59:51,580 --> 01:59:52,560
There

1250
01:59:57,420 --> 01:59:59,460
is no requirement to retroactively.

1251
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:08,180
Review and the IR that's been certified. You just, what you need, your analysis here is really focused

1252
02:00:08,180 --> 02:00:15,280
on whether there's any substantial changes since it's approval based on expert opinion and

1253
02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:23,220
medical evidence, not speculation, not just opinion, it has to be based in some expert

1254
02:00:23,220 --> 02:00:30,280
consultant opinion that's been entered into the record that would move this group to

1255
02:00:31,380 --> 02:00:39,780
take a look at reopen basically, reopen the EIR and re-review those issues in the EIR.

1256
02:00:40,460 --> 02:00:47,780
short of that, there's no substantial evidence and you accept the ER as is.

1257
02:00:49,280 --> 02:00:51,980
That's again, it's laid out in your staff report.

1258
02:00:53,240 --> 02:00:54,760
Thank you for the clarification.

1259
02:00:56,800 --> 02:01:05,120
And to radio, it is the city attorney has said the staff report was quite thorough and we have read it twice in the last.

1260
02:01:05,120 --> 02:01:06,540
Well, since the turn of the year,

1261
02:01:09,140 --> 02:01:11,760
so I'm

1262
02:01:16,620 --> 02:01:17,000
sorry sir,

1263
02:01:26,780 --> 02:01:38,640
Mr. Mayor, since you're dealing with the property could actually come up and speak to the microphone on the, this is dealing with the original proposal acreage on the current acreage at this time.

1264
02:01:38,640 --> 02:01:54,540
Yeah. The numbers are as follows. The original project area was 181.82 acres. The current amount of open space shown on the tentative map is 141.47 acres.

1265
02:01:55,080 --> 02:02:02,460
That represents right at 78% of the original project site is natural open space.

1266
02:02:08,120 --> 02:02:17,980
Again, with the requirements that we are tasked to look at, is the, and as Vice Chair

1267
02:02:17,980 --> 02:02:24,800
Shaw mentioned, some of the terminology can seem purposely vague, which makes it purposely

1268
02:02:24,800 --> 02:02:33,280
difficult as to what constitutes a substantial, or substantial evidence.

1269
02:02:37,120 --> 02:03:04,260
And emotional speculation and things as while we all feel that, you can't quantify it in terms of doesn't meet this standard or doesn't not, that's laid out by which the applicant, the zoning, all of the other, all of the other considerations that the applicant works on with staff over a long period of time to create

1270
02:03:04,260 --> 02:03:11,120
the proposal within the zoning and specific plants and all of the other land use.

1271
02:03:11,260 --> 02:03:17,980
In fact, one of the speakers mentioned, that's why we have the zoning rules that we do for different parts of the city.

1272
02:03:20,620 --> 02:03:30,380
So, absent those standard changes that have been deemed, albeit eight years ago, most recently,

1273
02:03:30,380 --> 02:03:39,920
As being adequately meeting, I think all of a sudden had a chance to weigh in on it, but we

1274
02:03:39,920 --> 02:03:45,320
have not, we need to look at a motion at some point.

1275
02:03:45,520 --> 02:03:45,920
Director.

1276
02:03:46,280 --> 02:03:47,260
Can I?

1277
02:03:48,800 --> 02:03:56,800
So I've been trying to take notes from what people are saying, and at this point, I'm thinking

1278
02:03:56,800 --> 02:04:04,080
in terms of drafting this resolution to bring back, and at this point, the only point I have

1279
02:04:04,080 --> 02:04:11,500
that I've heard from a number of you is that you believe that the tribal consultation

1280
02:04:11,500 --> 02:04:21,740
process was lacking, and that that should be a more robust process that is in place now

1281
02:04:21,740 --> 02:04:24,780
that was not in place at the time,

1282
02:04:27,360 --> 02:04:33,240
that comments like the EIR is old, and I understand

1283
02:04:34,620 --> 02:04:36,100
that's a perception,

1284
02:04:38,460 --> 02:04:43,340
but that's not going to help us address the criteria that we have

1285
02:04:43,340 --> 02:04:47,500
to deal with in the sequence statute.

1286
02:04:47,500 --> 02:04:51,200
So if there's anything, if I'm missing something,

1287
02:04:51,260 --> 02:04:54,580
if there's anything you can add to be a little bit more specific

1288
02:04:54,580 --> 02:04:59,200
so that when we do bring back a resolution to deny,

1289
02:04:59,400 --> 02:05:02,860
it'll be as robust as possible.

1290
02:05:05,820 --> 02:05:06,620
Thank you, Director.

1291
02:05:08,060 --> 02:05:12,540
Once again, at some point, we need to create a commissioner shop, please.

1292
02:05:12,860 --> 02:05:13,420
Just had a question.

1293
02:05:13,920 --> 02:05:18,020
So setting this project aside, how long, I mean,

1294
02:05:18,020 --> 02:05:23,680
IR validity, is that something that, once it's done, we would say 40 years from now, we would

1295
02:05:23,680 --> 02:05:28,900
be able to use the same EIR, is there a time when an EIR, can I have a life span,

1296
02:05:37,520 --> 02:05:37,520
or?

1297
02:05:37,520 --> 02:05:42,300
If you're asking, there's an expiration date on an EIR, not necessarily.

1298
02:05:45,040 --> 02:05:50,220
You might have a situation where you're relying on an EIR for a project, a new project.

1299
02:05:50,220 --> 02:05:57,380
And you find, again, there's substantial changes in some of the information that you relied

1300
02:05:57,380 --> 02:06:04,120
on back then, then you'd be able to supplement or revisit that environmental document.

1301
02:06:04,660 --> 02:06:10,540
But if you're asking, if you've got any IR and a product, and you don't have that situation

1302
02:06:10,540 --> 02:06:13,340
as their expiration date on any IR, no.

1303
02:06:13,340 --> 02:06:34,660
Okay, so if I set aside the substantial piece, because I know that's that seems to be a term if we look at what was on that one slide that had three A and it said that this was not discussed in a previous EIR and or you know we're talking about significant effects and B and then it says that the EIR concluded that there was less than significant impact.

1304
02:06:34,660 --> 02:06:42,120
I'm not sure how you would have substantial or significant impact on something that wasn't addressed or something that wasn't looked at.

1305
02:06:42,420 --> 02:06:52,460
And I think that's my hang up with this EIR is, I mean, 18 years is a long time, as a lot of people commented, things have changed.

1306
02:06:53,260 --> 02:07:01,140
So I understand there's not an expiration date on any EIR, but it comes to me what's reasonable, you know, if things have come up, at what point do you say,

1307
02:07:01,140 --> 02:07:07,500
Even in good faith, we go out and we do any IR to see if any of these things or if these concerns are valid.

1308
02:07:07,520 --> 02:07:12,940
If they're not, and you push forward, then at least we've satisfied, and we've done our good faith piece of saying,

1309
02:07:13,020 --> 02:07:19,440
hey, you know what that is not a concern, but I think it's hard to say whether it's substantial or significant those terms,

1310
02:07:20,600 --> 02:07:27,640
when we can't say that there is not a significant impact when we never evaluated it to see if there was a significant impact.

1311
02:07:32,670 --> 02:07:43,770
And so, director to your point, that's where I would be going with something in our resolution is, you know, we can't call something insignificant if it hasn't been evaluated to determine its significance.

1312
02:07:44,510 --> 02:07:48,330
So, which are the, er, topics you're referring to?

1313
02:07:48,530 --> 02:08:00,230
I think it's more than one. I don't think it's just tribal and cultural. I think there are a couple other things that have probably developed in 18 years and climate change is one that has been spoken to pretty significantly.

1314
02:08:00,830 --> 02:08:04,910
So, you can call that as a piece of the erosion or the piece of the grain edge.

1315
02:08:05,970 --> 02:08:09,770
But I do think that certainly tribal and cultural is going to be a piece of it.

1316
02:08:12,260 --> 02:08:18,400
Commission, you have to make a decision based on what's been presented to you, not based

1317
02:08:18,400 --> 02:08:25,160
on speculation of what you might get if you reopen, or if you do more consultation.

1318
02:08:25,720 --> 02:08:30,440
You have to make your decision based on the evidence that's been presented to you on the record.

1319
02:08:30,440 --> 02:08:31,640
Or not presented?

1320
02:08:32,980 --> 02:08:35,940
What's been presented? Or what's not been presented with lacking?

1321
02:08:42,430 --> 02:08:43,130
Vice-chair Shaw.

1322
02:08:46,780 --> 02:08:52,140
I'm just going to say that, you know, this is a really, really difficult decision.

1323
02:08:52,340 --> 02:08:54,900
And I wish we had more time, but we don't have more time.

1324
02:08:54,900 --> 02:08:59,980
And I wish that we could say, hey, go back and help us answer these questions.

1325
02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:06,280
But as the city attorney said, if we're looking at everything that is in front of us,

1326
02:09:06,280 --> 02:09:12,660
Unfortunately, we're missing some pieces, but I don't think that we have the authority to make a legal decision based on what is missing.

1327
02:09:13,480 --> 02:09:21,760
And everything that the applicant has done, the applicant has done everything that they, that they could in, and their arena.

1328
02:09:22,160 --> 02:09:25,760
I just don't see how we

1329
02:09:27,810 --> 02:09:30,890
hold them responsible for information that we don't have.

1330
02:09:31,150 --> 02:09:34,050
And I'm really, really disappointed that we don't have more time together.

1331
02:09:34,570 --> 02:09:35,970
But we can't change that.

1332
02:09:49,060 --> 02:09:51,600
The public hearing is closed, is

1333
02:09:55,280 --> 02:09:56,540
that you turning?

1334
02:10:00,060 --> 02:10:06,760
Chair and commissioners, if you want to entertain more comments, you have to reopen the public hearing.

1335
02:10:07,560 --> 02:10:10,420
That means when you give one, you give everyone.

1336
02:10:11,440 --> 02:10:16,100
So, please just keep that in mind when you make a decision to reopen the public hearing.

1337
02:10:24,660 --> 02:10:33,980
I'd reiterate that the public hearing has been closed for some time, and typically we do not reopen it.

1338
02:10:35,700 --> 02:10:48,640
And I think as the audience can hear, we have heard the comment, I think we understand the sentiment in the room really well.

1339
02:10:51,560 --> 02:10:56,740
And it's not that not hearing that's not our challenge at this point.

1340
02:10:56,920 --> 02:11:05,000
It's trying to discern how we navigate this within Sequoelle and being able to move forward

1341
02:11:05,000 --> 02:11:06,320
Commissioner Ensley.

1342
02:11:07,700 --> 02:11:11,900
Yeah, I was just going to add more for Director DeSatniks, more details.

1343
02:11:12,740 --> 02:11:18,580
Obviously, I think I've got that go pretty largely or pretty loudly that evaluation driver

1344
02:11:18,580 --> 02:11:25,300
So a culture of resources is an important one that it feels under-supported, and that seems

1345
02:11:25,300 --> 02:11:31,060
based on testimony, which has been presented to be a lacking area.

1346
02:11:31,480 --> 02:11:37,080
So I think that's more than enough, but I would do also echo some other sentiments that

1347
02:11:37,080 --> 02:11:44,120
we've heard, whether it's in the staff report or not, what has been provided to us that

1348
02:11:44,120 --> 02:11:51,860
There is substantial changes in fire risk considerations that 20 years ago may have been

1349
02:11:51,860 --> 02:11:56,080
very, very different than they are today, and that should be reevaluated.

1350
02:11:57,200 --> 02:12:02,340
Traffic concerns are very different, especially when you consider the thousands of additional

1351
02:12:02,340 --> 02:12:06,940
housing projects that are going on to our east, and that that is going to contribute.

1352
02:12:08,040 --> 02:12:11,500
This will help to contribute to worsening of traffic in the area.

1353
02:12:11,500 --> 02:12:18,080
that's a concern. I don't believe what have resulted in the same evaluation 20 years ago.

1354
02:12:19,780 --> 02:12:27,760
I'm keep-killing. Mountain lion sightings. These are protected species.

1355
02:12:31,940 --> 02:12:37,460
What we've also seen to be a lack of evaluation of the specific

1356
02:12:39,000 --> 02:12:43,980
for in the area and whether or not those are endangered or protected,

1357
02:12:44,320 --> 02:12:46,140
close to the levels, being one.

1358
02:12:49,200 --> 02:12:50,000
I hope that's enough.

1359
02:12:54,230 --> 02:12:56,790
Commissioner, should we have a motion of some sort?

1360
02:12:58,390 --> 02:12:59,650
Chair, I'd be happy to make a motion.

1361
02:13:02,090 --> 02:13:06,910
I move that the commission did not grant an extension to this project.

1362
02:13:07,730 --> 02:13:11,290
I could be happy to amend that anyway we need to to document it appropriately.

1363
02:13:11,290 --> 02:13:14,530
to say I had there to direct staff to bring back a resolution.

1364
02:13:14,730 --> 02:13:17,230
And to direct staff to bring a resolution.

1365
02:13:18,230 --> 02:13:19,390
Do I need that to now?

1366
02:13:19,650 --> 02:13:22,110
To now motion by Commissioner Ensley.

1367
02:13:24,250 --> 02:13:32,330
Seconded by Commissioner Shaw, all in favor of the motion is as outlined by Commissioner

1368
02:13:32,330 --> 02:13:33,310
Ensley.

1369
02:13:34,470 --> 02:13:35,130
Any opposed?

1370
02:13:37,000 --> 02:13:37,460
Opposed.

1371
02:13:38,870 --> 02:13:50,650
And again, the opposition comes from the fact that the vote is three-four in favor of commissioners motion.

1372
02:13:59,050 --> 02:13:59,510
Three-four.

1373
02:14:00,010 --> 02:14:03,070
Can we do a roll call?

1374
02:14:03,570 --> 02:14:04,190
Yes, sir.

1375
02:14:04,830 --> 02:14:05,030
Roll call.

1376
02:14:05,470 --> 02:14:06,390
Commissioner Wells?

1377
02:14:08,130 --> 02:14:08,270
Hi.

1378
02:14:08,870 --> 02:14:09,790
I'm Commissioner Anzilisa.

1379
02:14:11,840 --> 02:14:13,020
Commissioner Smith.

1380
02:14:14,260 --> 02:14:16,660
So, I'm opposed, Commissioner Shaw.

1381
02:14:17,220 --> 02:14:17,740
Yes, I'm Councillors.

1382
02:14:19,040 --> 02:14:19,640
Opposed.

1383
02:14:21,320 --> 02:14:21,920
Opposed.

1384
02:14:21,920 --> 02:14:22,040
Opposed.

1385
02:14:22,760 --> 02:14:23,220
Yes.

1386
02:14:30,240 --> 02:14:30,340
Yes.

1387
02:14:30,340 --> 02:14:32,060
So, four, three, the motion carries.

1388
02:14:34,130 --> 02:14:37,010
I'll commissioner, end of these motion carries.

1389
02:14:38,070 --> 02:14:44,930
With that, Director, you were asking for detailed and Commissioner Endsley laid out

1390
02:14:44,930 --> 02:14:47,510
some things that you'd want to take into account.

1391
02:14:48,350 --> 02:14:54,930
The erosion issue that was brought up at the adjacent development, I believe, is the Oakmont.

1392
02:14:56,170 --> 02:14:59,530
I think we need to be taken into account as relevant.

1393
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:16,380
The change in traffic pattern with current commerce. I think it would be relevant as a point of change that needs to be looked at at this point in time in addition to the tribal issues that have run up.

1394
02:15:16,980 --> 02:15:21,700
And the wildlife issues that people have mentioned that may not be accurately reflected.

1395
02:15:25,940 --> 02:15:32,080
All right. Thank you. And thank you for everyone who participated in the discussion this evening.

1396
02:15:42,480 --> 02:15:52,270
The next item, the next item before the commission, is item 5A, excuse me now.

1397
02:15:52,970 --> 02:16:01,970
Item 4B, order please, item 4B is continued from the December 13 meeting.

1398
02:16:02,750 --> 02:16:07,650
This is a request for a recommendation to city council to approve text, ordinance, text, amendment

1399
02:16:07,650 --> 02:16:12,770
Number three, six, five, pertaining to a proposed new warehouse development standards in

1400
02:16:12,770 --> 02:16:16,250
the city of Redlands, and the public hearing for this item is now open.

1401
02:16:18,350 --> 02:16:23,690
And again, if folks could take their conversation outside the chamber, much appreciate it.

1402
02:16:23,710 --> 02:16:24,930
Mr. Foot.

1403
02:16:26,110 --> 02:16:26,630
Thank you, Chair.

1404
02:16:28,370 --> 02:16:37,950
This item is continued from December 13th, I'll proceed through the presentation again for

1405
02:16:37,950 --> 02:16:43,150
your information, a little bit of background and June of 2022, the City Council adopted a

1406
02:16:43,150 --> 02:16:47,650
moratorium on New Warehouse Development Projects exceeding 50,000 square feet in the

1407
02:16:47,650 --> 02:16:51,970
commercial and industrial zones of the city, and then on July 19, the Council extended

1408
02:16:51,970 --> 02:17:00,230
the moratorium that moratorium has since ended. And then on July 27th of 2022, some draft

1409
02:17:00,230 --> 02:17:04,130
development standards were discussed with a planning commission and the commission provided

1410
02:17:04,130 --> 02:17:12,650
comments and suggestions to staff for further revisions, and then a revised ordinance, and

1411
02:17:12,650 --> 02:17:17,790
with draft old misstandors was brought to the commission on December 13th, and further discussion

1412
02:17:17,790 --> 02:17:24,090
and revisions were suggested to staff. So we are back this evening with a final form of the draft

1413
02:17:24,090 --> 02:17:24,890
developed standards.

1414
02:17:27,760 --> 02:17:31,820
In some terminology, often you hear the term high cube, warehouses,

1415
02:17:31,820 --> 02:17:33,600
or logistic distribution centers.

1416
02:17:34,280 --> 02:17:37,180
And those typically have some common characteristics.

1417
02:17:37,540 --> 02:17:41,040
They typically have a floor area of 200,000 square feet or more.

1418
02:17:41,160 --> 02:17:45,320
They often have docked doors on two opposite sides of the building to facilitate sorting

1419
02:17:45,320 --> 02:17:47,760
and incoming and outgoing packaging.

1420
02:17:55,360 --> 02:18:01,000
They often have high interior ceilings, typically from 28 to 36 feet high for, again,

1421
02:18:01,160 --> 02:18:07,300
packet sorting and delivery, and then they also tend to generate high rates of truck

1422
02:18:07,300 --> 02:18:10,020
for large trucks, medium trucks, and small delivery vehicles.

1423
02:18:11,340 --> 02:18:13,240
And so, high-cube warehouses or logistics,

1424
02:18:13,500 --> 02:18:17,220
distribution facilities do not include manufacturing types

1425
02:18:17,220 --> 02:18:20,680
of uses assembly or product finishing or other types of uses.

1426
02:18:24,960 --> 02:18:28,840
The definitions of warehousing and enslaved warehousing

1427
02:18:28,840 --> 02:18:32,820
were discussed previously and they're also provided in the

1428
02:18:32,820 --> 02:18:35,080
Stafford in terms of applicability.

1429
02:18:36,620 --> 02:18:40,180
The draft oil and standards would apply to new warehouses,

1430
02:18:40,180 --> 02:18:45,420
having a gross floor area of 50,000 square feet or more, and after further discussion by the

1431
02:18:45,420 --> 02:18:49,700
commission on December 13th, an additional criteria has been added, and that is any building

1432
02:18:49,700 --> 02:18:56,940
containing six or more truck docks for dock-high loading doors. And basically that reflects a rate

1433
02:18:56,940 --> 02:19:02,160
of one truck dock per 10,000 square feet, no four area, is generally how those facilities operate.

1434
02:19:05,960 --> 02:19:12,400
The applicability would apply to any redevelopment of projects, so we currently have

1435
02:19:12,400 --> 02:19:16,800
provision in the zoning code for non-conforming buildings and uses, and essentially this provision

1436
02:19:17,440 --> 02:19:22,720
mirrors that non-conforming provision, and it uses a threshold of 50% of the reasonable

1437
02:19:22,720 --> 02:19:30,200
replacement value of the structure. So if, for example, industrial building were to be proposed

1438
02:19:30,200 --> 02:19:35,100
to be converted to a warehouse or redeveloped in some manner with substantial reconstruction or

1439
02:19:35,100 --> 02:19:41,340
additions, then if that meets the criteria of 50% of the reasonable replacement value, then

1440
02:19:41,340 --> 02:19:45,560
property would need to also construct the applicable development standards that we're going to

1441
02:19:45,560 --> 02:19:48,720
go through here in just a minute. The same standards that would apply to a new warehouse

1442
02:19:48,720 --> 02:19:49,840
on a vacant site.

1443
02:19:52,900 --> 02:19:56,080
Generally, there are five categories of development standards. Those pertain

1444
02:19:56,080 --> 02:20:00,360
to site location requirements, screening and buffering from adjacent sensitive receptors,

1445
02:20:01,020 --> 02:20:05,560
adjacent uses traffic patterns and signage requirements, sustainable energy, and then

1446
02:20:05,560 --> 02:20:10,720
operation and construction of the facility. So one of the main criteria here is site location

1447
02:20:10,720 --> 02:20:16,700
requirements, so new warehouses, or then 50,000 square feet, would need to be located within

1448
02:20:16,700 --> 02:20:18,800
one mile of a freeway ramp.

1449
02:20:20,540 --> 02:20:25,260
And generally, that includes most of the industrial and commercial properties on the west side

1450
02:20:25,260 --> 02:20:29,960
of the city in the East Valley corridor, commercial industrial zoning, what's referred to

1451
02:20:29,960 --> 02:20:30,760
as the donor whole area.

1452
02:20:30,940 --> 02:20:34,680
That's the unincorporated county area, north of Tannin, west of Tuchan, freeway.

1453
02:20:34,680 --> 02:20:42,560
And then also include several industrial properties M1, M2, CM and IP properties within Redlands.

1454
02:20:44,940 --> 02:20:51,260
And just for clarity, warehouses under 50,000 square feet can still be built, and they can be built more than one mile away from our favorite ramp.

1455
02:20:51,680 --> 02:20:58,900
The restriction is on warehouses, 50,000 square feet, or more must be located within one mile at a freeway ramp.

1456
02:20:59,560 --> 02:21:06,840
This is just a map showing a general one-mile radius, the red, circular lines, and approximately

1457
02:21:06,840 --> 02:21:11,540
a one-mile radius around freeway ramps that's interstate 10 and highway 210.

1458
02:21:17,330 --> 02:21:19,790
The next category is screening and buffering from adjacent uses.

1459
02:21:20,670 --> 02:21:24,310
So, the new development standards would require a 10 foot ice screen wall when abutting

1460
02:21:24,310 --> 02:21:30,190
any sensitive receptors such as residential uses, childcare centers, hospitals, and those types

1461
02:21:30,190 --> 02:21:34,430
of sensitive receptors, in addition trees and landscaping, screening would be required,

1462
02:21:34,990 --> 02:21:38,550
so in other words, above the height of a 10 foot screen wall, trees would provide additional

1463
02:21:38,550 --> 02:21:40,330
screening, above the height of a 10 foot screen wall.

1464
02:21:41,730 --> 02:21:45,870
We would review the site plan to make sure that docs and truck entries are oriented sufficiently

1465
02:21:45,870 --> 02:21:51,510
away from a budding sensitive receptors, and the standards would also require a 35 percent

1466
02:21:51,510 --> 02:21:55,730
shade cover within passenger vehicle parking lot areas.

1467
02:21:56,450 --> 02:21:59,290
This category pertains to traffic patterns and signage requirements.

1468
02:21:59,950 --> 02:22:03,970
So, with a development application, we would require a truck routing plan to be prepared

1469
02:22:03,970 --> 02:22:07,230
and submitted by the applicant, but we would also require a traffic impact assessment

1470
02:22:07,230 --> 02:22:12,790
report to be prepared to evaluate that particular development in terms of the truck routes

1471
02:22:12,790 --> 02:22:17,070
and the capacity of the streets to handle the anticipated trip generation and truck routing

1472
02:22:17,070 --> 02:22:19,570
that we would see on the truck routing plan.

1473
02:22:22,000 --> 02:22:25,900
Generally, we would prohibit any truck routing through any residential under districts

1474
02:22:25,900 --> 02:22:30,200
the trucks would need to follow the designated existing truck routes to the freeway ramps.

1475
02:22:30,680 --> 02:22:33,960
trucks would not be able to stack or queue on public streets, so in other words, the site

1476
02:22:33,960 --> 02:22:39,600
must be designed with sufficient space on-site to allow trucks to maneuver and pull in off

1477
02:22:39,600 --> 02:22:44,760
the street and then wait on-site in the event of any gates that need to be open to allow

1478
02:22:44,760 --> 02:22:48,780
entry into the truck dock areas that trucks deck in a queue and needs to happen on the

1479
02:22:48,780 --> 02:22:50,500
project site and not on public streets.

1480
02:22:52,710 --> 02:23:08,070
In addition, signage may be required to direct truck drivers to the appropriate designated truck route and help them avoid residential areas, and signs could be also required offsite to prevent truck parking or trailer parking on surface streets in residential areas.

1481
02:23:10,360 --> 02:23:21,620
And this is a map from the general plan showing the existing truck routes indicated by the purple lines, and as you can see those are the major corridors, and those lead to the freeway ramps.

1482
02:23:24,870 --> 02:23:31,270
Excategory is a sustainable energy requirements, so there is some further explanation in the draft ordinance as to the

1483
02:23:31,270 --> 02:23:37,970
the formula that is used to determine what amount of photovoltaic or solar panels in the

1484
02:23:37,970 --> 02:23:44,230
electrical generation would need to be provided on site for a particular building that would be handled through the plan check process

1485
02:23:44,230 --> 02:23:50,630
in addition to cool roof materials would be required on any sections of roof without PV solar panels

1486
02:23:51,170 --> 02:23:55,690
And then also the passenger vehicle parking areas would need to have a certain amount of level

1487
02:23:55,690 --> 02:23:58,690
to charging systems installed with the development.

1488
02:23:59,130 --> 02:24:01,130
And then on-site motorized equipment should be zero emission.

1489
02:24:02,070 --> 02:24:06,750
Also, the truck docks themselves, if refrigerated trailers are anticipated, then the truck

1490
02:24:06,750 --> 02:24:11,510
docks need to provide an outlet for the trailer to plug in and use the electrical system as opposed

1491
02:24:11,510 --> 02:24:15,090
to running an engine or idling on-site.

1492
02:24:17,590 --> 02:24:20,750
The last category pertains to operation and construction requirements.

1493
02:24:21,590 --> 02:24:26,010
So in addition to the roof of the building, cool surface treatments would need to be installed

1494
02:24:26,010 --> 02:24:31,630
at dry miles of parking lots, in addition to solar, additional solar, PV panels, it

1495
02:24:31,630 --> 02:24:35,130
be installed on structures like car ports and the parking lot.

1496
02:24:35,910 --> 02:24:39,790
And in addition, or in large electrical room would need to be constructed within the building

1497
02:24:40,810 --> 02:24:45,210
to handle future expansion of the electrical system or anticipated future electrical demand.

1498
02:24:46,590 --> 02:24:50,210
I like exterior light fixtures, what we need to have shielding.

1499
02:24:51,270 --> 02:24:54,730
That's basically to prevent any nuisance effects on adjacent surrounding properties.

1500
02:24:57,010 --> 02:25:01,410
And then, for any sites that are but any sensitive receptors, any outdoor stacking or staging,

1501
02:25:02,030 --> 02:25:05,570
would need to occur below the height of the exterior screen, all which is a 10 foot limit.

1502
02:25:07,650 --> 02:25:16,830
There was a discussion on December 13th as to potential scenarios of converting properties,

1503
02:25:17,070 --> 02:25:23,630
or other potential scenarios where new warehouses might, what's the term.

1504
02:25:24,850 --> 02:25:28,250
Slip by and inadvertently without being subject to the standards.

1505
02:25:29,550 --> 02:25:38,250
So, the most expedient option seems to be to do a code amendment to acquire a conditional use permit for warehouses.

1506
02:25:39,130 --> 02:25:46,250
Where warehouses already are permitted to use specifically commercial manufacturing zone M1M2 and IP zones as are industrial zones.

1507
02:25:49,470 --> 02:25:54,230
Requiring a conditional use permit would allow additional layer overview.

1508
02:25:54,910 --> 02:25:58,230
There are four findings for conditional use permits and those four findings pertain to the land use.

1509
02:25:58,230 --> 02:26:02,610
And that's a difference from a commission review and approval permit.

1510
02:26:03,070 --> 02:26:08,170
So permitted land use is still required commission review and approval, but there's only three findings in commission review and approval.

1511
02:26:08,290 --> 02:26:14,710
And those three findings pertain to site plan approval, not necessarily the land use or the operation of the facility itself.

1512
02:26:15,270 --> 02:26:16,690
And that's compared to a conditional use permit.

1513
02:26:16,910 --> 02:26:21,550
We can actually look at the proposed land use and potentially add conditions of approval.

1514
02:26:21,730 --> 02:26:28,210
You need to that particular proposal or that particular use to address any unique problems or circumstances.

1515
02:26:28,210 --> 02:26:29,910
to be generated by the land use.

1516
02:26:30,210 --> 02:26:35,610
The condition we use permit is the appropriate mechanism to do that, to have the additional

1517
02:26:35,610 --> 02:26:41,350
layer of review of the land use and to potentially attach additional conditions if needed.

1518
02:26:42,210 --> 02:26:43,910
So that is now in the proposed code amendment.

1519
02:26:46,400 --> 02:26:50,360
Overall, the proposed code amendment is consistent with the general plan.

1520
02:26:50,860 --> 02:26:57,820
It's explained in the December 13th, staff report in detail that lists all the policies with which this would be consistent.

1521
02:26:57,820 --> 02:26:59,940
There's a number of policies from chapter 4,

1522
02:27:00,020 --> 02:27:02,280
livable community, chapter 5 connected city,

1523
02:27:02,600 --> 02:27:04,700
chapter 7, healthy community, and chapter 8 sustainability.

1524
02:27:07,270 --> 02:27:09,010
In terms of environmental review, the code of amendment is

1525
02:27:09,010 --> 02:27:10,030
exempt from environmental review.

1526
02:27:10,350 --> 02:27:12,810
There's three sections that we've identified that we could use for

1527
02:27:12,810 --> 02:27:13,190
exemption.

1528
02:27:13,970 --> 02:27:17,950
The general rule exemption is section 1, 5061 B3.

1529
02:27:17,990 --> 02:27:20,930
There's another section for actions by regulatory agencies for the

1530
02:27:20,930 --> 02:27:21,670
protection of the environment.

1531
02:27:21,670 --> 02:27:23,650
That's section 1, 5308.

1532
02:27:24,190 --> 02:27:27,970
And then if we need another section, there's 1, 5378,

1533
02:27:27,970 --> 02:27:33,450
five regarding activities of the city that don't result in any director-indirect physical

1534
02:27:33,450 --> 02:27:37,630
changes in the environment. So we have at least one of those reactions will work for

1535
02:27:37,630 --> 02:27:44,470
exemption from CEQA. And with that, staff is recommending that the commission adopt a

1536
02:27:44,470 --> 02:27:49,650
resolution, number 1607, the test of the staff report, that will make a recommendation to the

1537
02:27:49,650 --> 02:27:55,350
city council to adopt new ordinance implementing new warehouse development standards and the

1538
02:27:55,350 --> 02:27:59,270
related code amendments to the zoning code for a conditional use permit requirement.

1539
02:28:00,210 --> 02:28:02,730
And with that, staff is available to answer any questions.

1540
02:28:03,170 --> 02:28:04,230
Thank you.

1541
02:28:05,150 --> 02:28:08,170
Thank you, Mr. Foot, any questions by commissioners of staff?

1542
02:28:10,990 --> 02:28:11,450
Mr. Shoshan.

1543
02:28:11,850 --> 02:28:14,230
I just want to say thank you for addressing all our concerns.

1544
02:28:14,430 --> 02:28:20,830
You guys did a really good job, and I think it's all the comments that we had all been addressed

1545
02:28:21,290 --> 02:28:22,710
and just want to say thanks.

1546
02:28:24,810 --> 02:28:30,970
I'm very pleased to see that the result of that conversation did get incorporated.

1547
02:28:32,450 --> 02:28:36,030
And one question regarding the additional electrical capacity,

1548
02:28:38,410 --> 02:28:51,710
hearing that, I take that to mean potential changes in operation, but with the states drive to get more electric vehicles, and how that may affect charging vehicles.

1549
02:28:51,710 --> 02:29:05,850
vehicles that serve the warehouse property, does the wording in the ordinance cover that kind of expansion of capacity to be able to generate enough electricity to serve as vehicles at their location.

1550
02:29:11,990 --> 02:29:22,930
Well, that section regarding energy generation was reviewed by our building division. We had help from our building staff and it is consistent with the building code and

1551
02:29:22,930 --> 02:29:29,930
future anticipated, changes to the building code, and it should the energy generation

1552
02:29:29,930 --> 02:29:38,630
should be sufficient to satisfy the needs of most if not all of the energy demand of that

1553
02:29:38,630 --> 02:29:39,370
particular site.

1554
02:29:40,430 --> 02:29:41,370
Thank you.

1555
02:29:43,360 --> 02:29:43,700
Make sure to answer.

1556
02:29:45,260 --> 02:29:51,900
Actually, I was going to echo Vice Chair Shaw's sentiments, I know we've given a lot back

1557
02:29:51,900 --> 02:29:59,680
staff on this particular subject, and as someone who was very particular about what made

1558
02:29:59,680 --> 02:29:59,980
it into the...

1559
02:30:01,560 --> 02:30:15,120
This resolution, I just want to say thank you very much. I think you've really helped to identify what it is we were trying to get at, you know, a concern of, as you said, slipping through the cracks.

1560
02:30:16,120 --> 02:30:21,300
And, yeah, I really love these proposals, so I'm good.

1561
02:30:22,320 --> 02:30:22,880
Are you sure you're good, Zoss?

1562
02:30:23,320 --> 02:30:27,820
I echo, and please, comments, and also it was very thorough.

1563
02:30:30,430 --> 02:30:31,110
Do we have a motion?

1564
02:30:34,300 --> 02:30:35,000
Vice Chair Shaw.

1565
02:30:35,280 --> 02:30:38,560
I moved that the Planning Commission adopted resolution number 16.0.

1566
02:30:39,040 --> 02:30:41,660
Move by Vice Commissioner, or Vice Chair Shaw?

1567
02:30:42,160 --> 02:30:42,420
Second.

1568
02:30:42,800 --> 02:30:44,660
Seconded by Commissioner, Ensley, All in Favor?

1569
02:30:45,120 --> 02:30:45,320
Aye.

1570
02:30:45,800 --> 02:30:46,380
Any opposed?

1571
02:30:47,320 --> 02:30:48,300
Motion carries unanimously.

1572
02:30:49,900 --> 02:30:55,560
And the record show Vice Chair Shaw needs to leave the meeting at this time.

1573
02:30:56,400 --> 02:31:01,860
Our next item is new business that is item 5A.

1574
02:31:04,380 --> 02:31:10,620
This is a request to approve Tendative Track Map 20320 and conditional use permit 1148 for

1575
02:31:10,620 --> 02:31:14,940
a planned residential development located at the east and west sides of Wombash Avenue,

1576
02:31:14,940 --> 02:31:16,560
northerly of Reservoir Road.

1577
02:31:18,960 --> 02:31:21,800
This is, again, a public hearing.

1578
02:31:22,060 --> 02:31:23,800
I will open the public hearing for this item

1579
02:31:23,800 --> 02:31:26,300
and ask for the staff presentation by Emily Elliott.

1580
02:31:31,390 --> 02:31:31,950
Commissioners,

1581
02:31:37,140 --> 02:31:38,640
all right, the project before us

1582
02:31:38,640 --> 02:31:42,240
this evening is a tentative tract map

1583
02:31:42,240 --> 02:31:44,840
with a conditional use permit and a street vacation.

1584
02:31:45,380 --> 02:31:48,380
The project site is located on both sides

1585
02:31:48,380 --> 02:31:51,700
of Wabash Avenue, very close to the city boundary.

1586
02:31:51,700 --> 02:31:59,320
That's that white dashed line indicating city of redlands from the west and then unincorporated areas of the right.

1587
02:32:03,350 --> 02:32:06,870
Specifically, the project entitlements include the tentative tract map.

1588
02:32:07,050 --> 02:32:14,510
This would subdivide the approximately 65 acres into 67 single family residential lots and 10 littered lots.

1589
02:32:15,550 --> 02:32:19,190
The conditional use permit is for the planned residential development.

1590
02:32:19,190 --> 02:32:36,810
The Pline Residential Development or PRD for short is a mechanism offered to developers to consolidate lots in exchange for open space, and it is a conditionally approved action by the Pline Commission.

1591
02:32:36,810 --> 02:32:52,450
And then finally there's a street vacation, and this is to correct just not discrepancies with variances and widths along reservoir road in order to achieve consistent alignment of reservoir road consistent with the general plan.

1592
02:32:54,650 --> 02:32:58,870
On the screen is the conceptual plan for the project.

1593
02:32:59,930 --> 02:33:18,170
And the project is going to be, or is proposed to be constructed in two phases with the alignment of Wabash Avenue being constructed and completed along with everything on the west side of the site and then phase two would consist of all the dwellings and open space on the right side.

1594
02:33:21,370 --> 02:33:33,770
This project was previously entitled, however, those project entitlements have expired, and so the project applicant has refreshed their environmental review and brought forward new applications.

1595
02:33:34,690 --> 02:33:39,930
Back in 2004, a zone change conditional use permit and tentative map were all approved.

1596
02:33:39,930 --> 02:33:51,090
The zone change is still valid, that zone change altered the site from the agricultural district to the residential state district and the site is currently owned R.E.

1597
02:33:51,910 --> 02:34:00,090
But the tentative map and the CUP did expire at that time the developer was seeking 76 slots and five common lots.

1598
02:34:03,400 --> 02:34:06,600
This is a general plan map of the project vicinity.

1599
02:34:06,600 --> 02:34:11,460
The entirety of the project is within the very low-density residential designation.

1600
02:34:12,460 --> 02:34:15,560
This designation allows for up to three dwelling units per acre.

1601
02:34:16,140 --> 02:34:21,780
The project is proposing just under one dwelling unit per acre, comes out to 0.96.

1602
02:34:25,020 --> 02:34:26,300
This is the zoning map.

1603
02:34:27,300 --> 02:34:32,260
Like I said, the project was previously converted from the agricultural district to the residential

1604
02:34:32,260 --> 02:34:37,420
the state district and this is consistent with the existing developments to the west and across the

1605
02:34:37,420 --> 02:34:38,360
freeway to the south.

1606
02:34:43,040 --> 02:34:46,620
The project does meet all of the development standards and requirements

1607
02:34:46,620 --> 02:34:54,900
of the R-E district, particularly when the planned residential development standards are also applied.

1608
02:34:58,880 --> 02:35:05,400
The next couple slides show the tentative track to map and closer detail. This first cut sheet

1609
02:35:05,400 --> 02:35:11,400
is part of phase one. This is lots one through 13. I know the gray scales kind of hard to see,

1610
02:35:11,540 --> 02:35:13,620
so if there's any questions, just let me know.

1611
02:35:15,810 --> 02:35:18,570
So this will be among the first of the project that

1612
02:35:18,570 --> 02:35:26,830
is developed. And then this is the second half of phase one. Lots 13 through 42. Sorry, 14 through 42.

1613
02:35:28,590 --> 02:35:33,150
Then, finally, phase two, which is on sheet 3,

1614
02:35:33,510 --> 02:35:36,110
site, or a lot 43 through lots, 67.

1615
02:35:40,880 --> 02:35:43,600
This is the project plan in its entirety.

1616
02:35:44,220 --> 02:35:47,180
This is the PRD site plan, so it shows the lots,

1617
02:35:47,560 --> 02:35:51,120
but then also the pads on each lot and where the dwellings

1618
02:35:51,120 --> 02:35:52,320
will be located.

1619
02:35:53,840 --> 02:35:57,520
The project is consistent with the PRD standards,

1620
02:35:58,640 --> 02:36:03,160
and it is also subject to the city's

1621
02:36:03,160 --> 02:36:08,720
side development district because it's on an area that is quite hilly and is consistent with

1622
02:36:08,720 --> 02:36:18,820
those provisions as well. The project is proposing three floor plans across three different

1623
02:36:18,820 --> 02:36:27,020
architectural types. So there's the craftsman and farmhouse and a like mission style or Spanish

1624
02:36:27,020 --> 02:36:34,060
style. That's plan one with just a single story product, plan two. It's a two story product

1625
02:36:35,040 --> 02:36:36,920
as is plan three.

1626
02:36:42,910 --> 02:36:46,950
The project would be nearly fully landscapeed and these types of projects

1627
02:36:46,950 --> 02:36:52,930
the developers responsible for landscaping the front yards, the parkways, basins, and any

1628
02:36:52,930 --> 02:36:54,390
programmed open space.

1629
02:36:57,040 --> 02:37:01,280
The project is also required as part of the PRD ordinance to provide a minimum

1630
02:37:01,280 --> 02:37:11,180
of 20% open space, which is achieved through a couple of programmed park spaces, but also an abundance

1631
02:37:12,620 --> 02:37:15,500
of more passive recreation open space.

1632
02:37:15,780 --> 02:37:18,460
There are some existing trails out on the property.

1633
02:37:19,220 --> 02:37:23,220
And the projects design takes those trails into account and will actually improve some of those

1634
02:37:23,220 --> 02:37:28,040
trails with the DG-based, so residents and members of the community can still access them.

1635
02:37:28,040 --> 02:37:35,600
In total, the project provides 43% open space, which exceeds the 20% minimum requirement.

1636
02:37:39,350 --> 02:37:46,250
The street vacation is intended to correct the street width and alignment of reservoir road.

1637
02:37:47,250 --> 02:37:53,210
Right now that property boundary with reservoir road, kind of varies in width for about 1,300 feet.

1638
02:37:53,210 --> 02:38:02,450
And so what the street vacation will do is make reservoir road consistent with the collector street standard in the city's general plan.

1639
02:38:04,050 --> 02:38:12,210
The planning commission's being asked to adopt a resolution finding that the street vacation is conformance with the city's general plan.

1640
02:38:13,030 --> 02:38:16,250
That street vacation will then proceed onto city council.

1641
02:38:16,250 --> 02:38:25,630
There's a condition of approval on this project that entitlements or permitting cannot continue until the applicant receives that City Council approval on the vacation.

1642
02:38:26,890 --> 02:38:33,850
The general plan classification map, so each color corresponds to what type of street.

1643
02:38:34,450 --> 02:38:42,430
So, in the teal box is the section of reservoir road that is subject to the street vacation and it is a collector street.

1644
02:38:42,690 --> 02:38:53,290
I'll also point out that Babish Avenue has been on the city's general plan as a minor arterial and this project would complete that through construction of Babish Avenue.

1645
02:38:56,720 --> 02:39:09,500
This slide shows the general plan standards for collector streets, again, this applies to reservoir road, and then the project's proposed cross section is on the right.

1646
02:39:11,780 --> 02:39:14,680
The collector street has a 64 foot right of way.

1647
02:39:14,740 --> 02:39:21,600
We tend to talk in terms of half widths, which is 32 feet, and the project is providing that 32 foot half width.

1648
02:39:24,440 --> 02:39:30,060
Compliance with measure U, the project under a Windows Associate Economic Cost Benefit Analysis,

1649
02:39:30,700 --> 02:39:36,660
and during that analysis, it was determined that the project would have a positive cost benefit ratio of 2.22,

1650
02:39:42,190 --> 02:39:47,550
and then for environmental review, a new environmental document was prepared for this project,

1651
02:39:47,750 --> 02:39:53,110
and was analyzed under all of the resource categories identified on the screen,

1652
02:39:53,230 --> 02:39:55,510
which is the most current sequence available.

1653
02:39:56,820 --> 02:40:12,240
No significant impacts were identified for the operation of the project. However, some impacts were identified related to construction. However, all of these impacts can be mitigated with the implementation of measures that have been included in the project's conditions of approval.

1654
02:40:14,800 --> 02:40:18,160
The environmental document was circulated for a 30 day public review.

1655
02:40:18,160 --> 02:40:25,820
And then notice that the intent was posted as required with the city clerk and the state clearing house and on the city's website.

1656
02:40:26,800 --> 02:40:34,000
Six public comments were received, most pertained to a site circulation and the build out of Wavash Avenue

1657
02:40:34,000 --> 02:40:37,300
and one comment letter was received from their quality district.

1658
02:40:38,600 --> 02:40:42,020
The responses to the comments are all documented in the staff report attachments,

1659
02:40:42,760 --> 02:40:47,420
so the projects and environmental consultants in the audience and prepared to answer any specific questions.

1660
02:40:47,420 --> 02:40:55,770
It's the staff's recommendation that the Planning Commission adopt the initial study mitigated

1661
02:40:55,770 --> 02:41:01,130
neck declaration and approve the resolution or adopt the resolution that would approve

1662
02:41:01,130 --> 02:41:07,090
the socioeconomic cost benefits that he conditionally use permit and then adopt the

1663
02:41:07,090 --> 02:41:12,070
resolution for the street vacation which again will proceed to city council for approval.

1664
02:41:13,700 --> 02:41:18,420
A motion for the council or commissions considerations on the screen and I'm happy to answer any

1665
02:41:18,420 --> 02:41:18,840
questions.

1666
02:41:18,840 --> 02:41:21,900
Okay, thank you, Ms. Elant. Any questions of staff?

1667
02:41:25,450 --> 02:41:25,970
Ms. Sherner-Wals?

1668
02:41:27,390 --> 02:41:30,410
Just a quick question on the M&D.

1669
02:41:33,300 --> 02:41:37,740
On page 138, when it addresses schools, it says that the closest schools to the

1670
02:41:37,740 --> 02:41:39,500
product site are Mission Elementary School.

1671
02:41:40,680 --> 02:41:45,820
And I believe that that section, that's a typo, and I'm not sure if that means

1672
02:41:45,820 --> 02:41:49,580
the whole section gets redone or just the update, but missions kind of across towns.

1673
02:41:49,580 --> 02:41:54,140
So I'm thinking it's either Mariposa or Craftin.

1674
02:41:54,740 --> 02:41:57,500
Yeah, just to note on that.

1675
02:41:57,740 --> 02:41:59,840
But it's got Mission Elementary at California Street,

1676
02:41:59,900 --> 02:42:00,900
Redland's Academy at Stewart,

1677
02:42:01,320 --> 02:42:02,400
so totally different part of Tampa.

1678
02:42:07,880 --> 02:42:08,960
Is that indeed a type forward?

1679
02:42:10,180 --> 02:42:10,480
Or a mistake?

1680
02:42:11,120 --> 02:42:11,600
Yeah, it must be.

1681
02:42:12,040 --> 02:42:13,540
OK, I was like a question.

1682
02:42:17,940 --> 02:42:18,900
Commissioner Shaw.

1683
02:42:20,000 --> 02:42:21,040
If you're just a couple of questions,

1684
02:42:22,620 --> 02:42:25,440
I know it mentions that Wavash will be improved.

1685
02:42:26,040 --> 02:42:28,520
It's probably the key concern I see there.

1686
02:42:28,520 --> 02:42:33,680
How would, I mean, I can get making what Rose Wider and whatnot, but my question is,

1687
02:42:33,800 --> 02:42:39,280
is when you get to the top of Wabash, where the dirt basically meets what's low-grade asphalt,

1688
02:42:39,560 --> 02:42:44,240
at this point, there's a significant pitch in the road, they're like, I mean, where you can't see over.

1689
02:42:45,620 --> 02:42:52,600
So, how's that road going to get restructured to change that considering there's existing housing

1690
02:42:52,600 --> 02:42:53,480
and whatnot there?

1691
02:42:54,880 --> 02:42:59,940
Sure, I'll answer to the extent that I have knowledge and then I believe that the traffic

1692
02:42:59,940 --> 02:43:05,960
consultant is joined us via Zoom and so after I take my attendee I will let them give their

1693
02:43:05,960 --> 02:43:10,960
professional opinion but part of the Sequoanalysis or the environmental analysis is to assess

1694
02:43:10,960 --> 02:43:15,840
the project for traffic hazards and the creation of any roads that would present the hazard.

1695
02:43:16,260 --> 02:43:23,900
So I can't address how that rise is being addressed but that it would need to be considered as part of the

1696
02:43:23,900 --> 02:43:31,120
projects in environmental review. Linda, if it's possible to let the consultant address the rest of the question.

1697
02:43:43,050 --> 02:43:43,870
We can let.

1698
02:43:44,010 --> 02:43:45,830
Do you let Dawn respond?

1699
02:43:47,310 --> 02:43:47,750
Dawn Young.

1700
02:43:51,440 --> 02:43:51,960
So the engineer?

1701
02:43:59,350 --> 02:43:59,470
Hello.

1702
02:44:00,170 --> 02:44:00,730
Excuse me, hello.

1703
02:44:00,830 --> 02:44:02,050
This is Dawn Young.

1704
02:44:02,890 --> 02:44:04,250
I'm not using the engineering.

1705
02:44:06,050 --> 02:44:09,510
The realignment of Wadaash if the map can be pulled up.

1706
02:44:09,510 --> 02:44:19,630
occurs, I'm guess, I'm estimating 150 to 200 feet, northerly of the location that the

1707
02:44:19,630 --> 02:44:27,070
commission was describing with the pitch and the road, that section of Wabash is actually

1708
02:44:27,070 --> 02:44:33,740
over the county and we'll call that'll become an old Wabash, the little extension that

1709
02:44:33,740 --> 02:44:40,920
or road, which is a private road, will tie into a long-ashic stealth itself as if you're

1710
02:44:41,840 --> 02:44:48,100
picturing your driving subtly on a long-ash long before you would get to that pitch point,

1711
02:44:49,040 --> 02:44:55,080
while that actually appears to the left or to the right or to the west, and goes the other side

1712
02:44:55,080 --> 02:44:58,580
of the hill and housing that currently exists there.

1713
02:45:00,050 --> 02:45:05,130
And I wrote will be designed to appropriate standards.

1714
02:45:06,950 --> 02:45:11,950
Okay, so if you're proceeding down, if you're proceeding south on wall bash on the paved portion,

1715
02:45:12,450 --> 02:45:16,310
you're saying the road is going to be the right kind of vented of the canyon, which is the right

1716
02:45:16,310 --> 02:45:19,730
behind where those two new houses are being constructed.

1717
02:45:23,490 --> 02:45:31,050
It'd be over in that direction. The easiest way would be if the tentative map is pulled back up.

1718
02:45:31,050 --> 02:45:37,430
now you have that little bit of the to see to picture your mind you can see the alignment of

1719
02:45:37,430 --> 02:45:46,210
the wall bash which is across property the city obtained back in the 1980s for a lining wall

1720
02:45:46,210 --> 02:45:53,390
bash along that the proposed group that the developer will be constructing.

1721
02:45:56,390 --> 02:45:56,970
Okay I guess I'm

1722
02:45:56,970 --> 02:45:59,150
on a tough time understand and where

1723
02:46:01,460 --> 02:46:05,260
it's the top of the map there yeah so it's a very

1724
02:46:05,260 --> 02:46:08,400
top where the road is is that what's current or is that new

1725
02:46:10,440 --> 02:46:12,820
that's going to be the

1726
02:46:12,820 --> 02:46:18,200
obviously the very top of the map was the the probably the best person to answer that because

1727
02:46:18,200 --> 02:46:25,120
they can see that what's in front of you would be the project applicants engineer that's in order

1728
02:46:25,120 --> 02:46:31,510
to project applicants and they can describe it in a point using laser pointer to show you where

1729
02:46:31,510 --> 02:46:37,530
the road go, where the road is and where the road would go. So off to the right, that's the existing,

1730
02:46:37,650 --> 02:46:41,610
and that's kind of what comes down to where the freeway offer emp is. That would be continuing down,

1731
02:46:41,790 --> 02:46:46,350
if a map continued, it would go down to where that's existing. Well, this is all alignment, but this

1732
02:46:46,350 --> 02:46:53,030
is understood. So that's what I'm only. So where Wavash is now going to intersect a reservoir is

1733
02:46:53,030 --> 02:46:56,470
a fair distance west of where it currently intersects.

1734
02:46:59,170 --> 02:47:01,690
No, the lalt describe it again for a

1735
02:47:01,690 --> 02:47:08,050
different perspective. If I'm on reservoir and I get on to Wabash to go north,

1736
02:47:09,470 --> 02:47:17,050
early I go up the dirt road, you know, and it goes to the right around the hill and up

1737
02:47:17,050 --> 02:47:21,990
a fairly steep grade. Instead of going to the right, it'll geared to the left or to the left

1738
02:47:21,990 --> 02:47:27,810
and come around and then pipe back into Wabash up at the top of the hill.

1739
02:47:28,330 --> 02:47:35,290
I see, so where it intersects with Reservoir now does not change, but I

1740
02:47:39,990 --> 02:47:40,690
think that's

1741
02:47:40,690 --> 02:47:45,950
not the question for him. I have one or two more. Okay, up off of Camelot, which is

1742
02:47:45,950 --> 02:47:49,890
be existing kind of behind them with that cul-de-sec is there, connectivity there,

1743
02:47:50,150 --> 02:47:54,730
like trail-wise, or anything you mentioned, trails and whatnot. There's no connectivity to

1744
02:47:54,730 --> 02:47:58,070
the existing residential that's on the far north end.

1745
02:48:00,280 --> 02:48:06,400
See that there is a little trail here, it's hard for me to tell where exactly it goes.

1746
02:48:06,720 --> 02:48:10,800
The bulk of the trail system is to the south and then to the southeast.

1747
02:48:12,320 --> 02:48:20,700
Okay, so that the very top end, kind of a green space up there, is that basically that would be a budding to current property lines that are off of Channelot.

1748
02:48:20,920 --> 02:48:23,600
Right, so these are private property lots.

1749
02:48:24,340 --> 02:48:29,920
So if there are any existing trails here, they wouldn't be continued as part of the Developers project,

1750
02:48:29,920 --> 02:48:31,520
because it would be going on to private property.

1751
02:48:32,200 --> 02:48:34,200
So they're just constructing and finishing trails

1752
02:48:34,200 --> 02:48:36,420
that are wholly within their project area.

1753
02:48:37,920 --> 02:48:39,800
Okay, and then my last question is relative to reservoir

1754
02:48:39,800 --> 02:48:43,340
where you talked about the road that alignment piece,

1755
02:48:44,080 --> 02:48:47,180
or does that eliminate the city citrus there,

1756
02:48:47,500 --> 02:48:50,840
or is that changed to the road on the north side of the road

1757
02:48:50,840 --> 02:48:52,140
where it does not affect the citrus?

1758
02:48:56,000 --> 02:48:58,960
On, or if I can get out of the city engineer,

1759
02:48:59,520 --> 02:49:00,360
respond to that one.

1760
02:49:03,400 --> 02:49:05,800
The citrus would not be impacting.

1761
02:49:06,760 --> 02:49:09,180
My understanding is more of a mapping exercise,

1762
02:49:09,580 --> 02:49:12,380
where the property lines for the project currently end

1763
02:49:12,380 --> 02:49:14,980
resulting in too much right of way, or in some cases,

1764
02:49:15,000 --> 02:49:15,780
maybe not enough.

1765
02:49:16,440 --> 02:49:19,780
So it's more of just a correction of the property line,

1766
02:49:19,980 --> 02:49:22,160
but the way that it's constructed is going to remain.

1767
02:49:23,020 --> 02:49:26,520
So that impact would only be between where the existing residences are

1768
02:49:26,520 --> 02:49:29,460
on reservoir between that and, in essentially,

1769
02:49:29,460 --> 02:49:34,540
wall-bash. It wouldn't affect anything where there's already the houses on

1770
02:49:34,540 --> 02:49:37,500
reservoir. It's only going to affect the project frontage.

1771
02:49:37,620 --> 02:49:39,520
I did. Okay. Thank you.

1772
02:49:40,880 --> 02:49:41,500
Mr. Rensley.

1773
02:49:43,160 --> 02:49:44,880
This question might be for the traffic in sultanate.

1774
02:49:45,820 --> 02:49:55,440
I'm just kind of curious the proposed routes to access freeways, right? We got a one-off

1775
02:49:55,440 --> 02:50:04,680
I'm coming from ITN West, from EKIPA direction, and then an on-ramp going east, is there

1776
02:50:04,680 --> 02:50:11,560
thought and proposed, you know, passage from this to the freeway.

1777
02:50:11,560 --> 02:50:17,740
I'm just thinking that on-ramp at forward going west is going, it's already fairly congested,

1778
02:50:17,740 --> 02:50:22,440
and it's kind of a really odd intersection, but the freeway there and two other collector

1779
02:50:22,440 --> 02:50:27,380
streets right next to it. I'm just curious that that's going to exacerbate a traffic problem

1780
02:50:27,380 --> 02:50:34,280
at that location and also for people who might be returning, commuting, coming back,

1781
02:50:35,340 --> 02:50:43,720
ahead of the east, the only, or the most logical off-ramp would still be at Ford Street and then

1782
02:50:43,720 --> 02:50:46,970
taking that same route. I'm just curious if there's been thought about that.

1783
02:50:50,010 --> 02:50:53,190
It's a traffic consultant available to the answer.

1784
02:50:53,570 --> 02:50:54,710
Commissioner Ensley's question.

1785
02:51:00,490 --> 02:51:01,490
We've got the Mr. Crawford.

1786
02:51:06,130 --> 02:51:08,210
I'm Crawford, are you able to?

1787
02:51:08,210 --> 02:51:08,990
Yeah, Mr. Crawford.

1788
02:51:09,450 --> 02:51:10,610
Any group in here, me?

1789
02:51:10,790 --> 02:51:11,590
Yes, thank you.

1790
02:51:11,910 --> 02:51:12,410
Okay, perfect.

1791
02:51:13,110 --> 02:51:13,710
Yes, we did.

1792
02:51:13,730 --> 02:51:15,250
We did the traffic analysis.

1793
02:51:16,290 --> 02:51:19,010
And in the subsequent one from Matthew,

1794
02:51:19,290 --> 02:51:23,990
and for your concern, we did the, we showed a product for distribution.

1795
02:51:24,330 --> 02:51:25,190
It's on figure 13.

1796
02:51:25,190 --> 02:51:31,950
and for freeway traffic, we're showing at 55% of the freeway traffic would head west

1797
02:51:31,950 --> 02:51:39,610
from a protest site on reservoir road to Ford Street with 30% heading westbound on a 10

1798
02:51:39,610 --> 02:51:46,370
freeway and 10% would go up north and four or 15 south on Ford and for eastbound traffic

1799
02:51:46,370 --> 02:51:55,130
we're showing 30% heading south on a law bash with 25% of that and then getting on to freeway

1800
02:51:55,130 --> 02:51:59,590
had it east on the I-10. So, you know, it was traffic

1801
02:51:59,590 --> 02:52:02,630
or good traffic concerns and the traffic flow was, you know,

1802
02:52:02,670 --> 02:52:05,250
evaluate the assessment report to show, you know,

1803
02:52:05,270 --> 02:52:07,570
giving to the freeway using different routes.

1804
02:52:08,730 --> 02:52:09,850
The most logical routes.

1805
02:52:11,310 --> 02:52:13,850
I think that's part of my question or concern that the most

1806
02:52:13,850 --> 02:52:16,090
logical routes with that increases.

1807
02:52:17,410 --> 02:52:22,450
You know, is there any recommendation for additional traffic

1808
02:52:23,450 --> 02:52:32,890
medications that can be put into place, or enhancements to existing on-ramps off-ramps,

1809
02:52:33,350 --> 02:52:36,550
or even the introduction of those are conversations with the call of trance about putting

1810
02:52:37,770 --> 02:52:39,830
another on-ramp level, I don't think you can.

1811
02:52:40,030 --> 02:52:44,470
Ford Street, I just, I'm, my concern is that it's going to exacerbate a really significant

1812
02:52:44,470 --> 02:52:47,750
problem of wondering if there's been any suggestion for improvements.

1813
02:52:47,750 --> 02:53:02,110
But we analyze, you know, in a few way ramps as well as, you know, the ones on Ford, the intersection of Ford at reservoir, believe it is currently unsignalized and it's currently warranted for a traffic signal.

1814
02:53:02,270 --> 02:53:12,830
So that would be an improvement there on that intersection. The few way ramps we analyze them for existing all the way to build out conditions and those ramps will protect the operating acceptable levels of service for going out conditions.

1815
02:53:13,790 --> 02:53:20,090
Thank you. Before he, before he lose him. Can you address the same for, for Wavash? That's

1816
02:53:20,090 --> 02:53:23,650
where I see it as a significant traffic increase would be on when you punch Wavash

1817
02:53:23,650 --> 02:53:28,750
through. Yeah, what we did for that, you know, as well is we did that

1818
02:53:28,750 --> 02:53:34,950
dot our analysis. We took the SBTAM model from San Bernardino Transportation Authority. They

1819
02:53:34,950 --> 02:53:39,350
have the projections, you know, what traffic flow is going to be like in a modeling. And we,

1820
02:53:39,350 --> 02:53:42,590
You know, use that model to come up with, you know,

1821
02:53:42,590 --> 02:53:43,830
combined with existing traffic volumes,

1822
02:53:43,910 --> 02:53:46,030
to come up with future traffic volumes, you know,

1823
02:53:46,090 --> 02:53:48,690
based on that model, and conducted the analysis

1824
02:53:48,690 --> 02:53:51,470
and analyzed those intersections as well.

1825
02:53:52,030 --> 02:53:54,730
And the intersections, wall-bass reservoirs,

1826
02:53:54,830 --> 02:53:56,170
as well as the two ramps are projected

1827
02:53:56,170 --> 02:53:57,470
to operate, except what levels of service

1828
02:53:57,470 --> 02:53:59,230
and the feature for future build-out conditions.

1829
02:54:00,390 --> 02:54:01,570
But let's talk further north.

1830
02:54:01,870 --> 02:54:03,210
So I'm thinking wall-bass in fifth,

1831
02:54:03,270 --> 02:54:05,650
which is already a disaster on a Friday.

1832
02:54:06,570 --> 02:54:11,210
It's a stop sign, it's one lane passing through there.

1833
02:54:11,930 --> 02:54:16,750
If that becomes a major thoroughfare, which is going to be, what is, is that any of that

1834
02:54:16,750 --> 02:54:21,290
been mitigated down through that, through the residential all the way toward fifth and then

1835
02:54:21,290 --> 02:54:21,970
at that intersection?

1836
02:54:23,430 --> 02:54:27,770
A wall bash of fifth was not an intersection that we analyzed, it did not meet the requirements,

1837
02:54:27,990 --> 02:54:33,410
we had shown that 15% of future traffic hitting north on wall bash, and it didn't meet the

1838
02:54:33,410 --> 02:54:35,430
and for analysis for this project?

1839
02:54:36,530 --> 02:54:38,510
That's going to see a significant impact there.

1840
02:54:41,020 --> 02:54:42,140
Mr. Chair, do you do also have a question

1841
02:54:42,140 --> 02:54:44,360
about the grade at the top of the hill?

1842
02:54:44,800 --> 02:54:47,600
He answered that because he said that the road

1843
02:54:47,600 --> 02:54:51,760
is going to be diverted to the west, which is less

1844
02:54:51,760 --> 02:54:53,140
of a grade over there.

1845
02:54:53,760 --> 02:54:55,160
But I still think that as you get into that

1846
02:54:55,160 --> 02:54:56,640
residential that's existing on the other side,

1847
02:54:56,800 --> 02:54:58,940
and especially to fifth and wall bash,

1848
02:54:59,660 --> 02:55:00,480
that's not going to be significant.

1849
02:55:01,300 --> 02:55:01,980
Thank you.

1850
02:55:02,160 --> 02:55:03,060
And thank you, Mr. Crawford.

1851
02:55:03,720 --> 02:55:04,340
Thank you.

1852
02:55:04,340 --> 02:55:13,900
I had a question about the landscaping and with the increasing attention on drought, does the landscaping

1853
02:55:13,900 --> 02:55:20,900
plan take into account sufficiently the drought tolerant plantings and things staying away

1854
02:55:20,900 --> 02:55:25,060
from the thirsty trees and turf that.

1855
02:55:26,710 --> 02:55:29,570
Sure, I'm pulling up that section of the staff report.

1856
02:55:32,070 --> 02:55:34,670
Without reminding myself of the exact species,

1857
02:55:35,270 --> 02:55:38,650
this project is going to be subject to the city's water-efficient landscape ordinance,

1858
02:55:38,770 --> 02:55:43,850
so whatever is proposed, the developer will have to calculate their water budget

1859
02:55:43,850 --> 02:55:49,230
and keep it within the requirements of the water-efficient landscape ordinance.

1860
02:55:55,450 --> 02:56:02,370
Here we go, landscaping. It looks like primary trees are Chinese fringe,

1861
02:56:02,370 --> 02:56:06,230
Australian Willow, Great Mertal, and Brisbane trees,

1862
02:56:12,550 --> 02:56:15,810
Parkway trees, Sweetshade, Strawberry, Purple

1863
02:56:15,810 --> 02:56:18,250
Orchid, and Golden Rain trees.

1864
02:56:21,020 --> 02:56:22,480
We'd be pretty dry trees.

1865
02:56:24,080 --> 02:56:24,300
All right.

1866
02:56:25,340 --> 02:56:28,760
And this parcel for development, that's all currently taken.

1867
02:56:31,220 --> 02:56:35,900
I remember when we entitled this property the last time, and we went over all the details pretty

1868
02:56:35,900 --> 02:56:37,060
significantly at that time.

1869
02:56:38,340 --> 02:56:38,920
Thank you.

1870
02:56:38,920 --> 02:56:40,700
Thank you.

1871
02:56:41,200 --> 02:56:44,680
If there's no additional questions of staff at this time,

1872
02:56:45,400 --> 02:56:48,300
public comment, Jago Alba.

1873
02:56:58,230 --> 02:56:58,630
Bear with me.

1874
02:56:58,750 --> 02:57:00,170
I've never done this before.

1875
02:57:02,650 --> 02:57:04,250
So I've concerns, I think.

1876
02:57:05,070 --> 02:57:07,410
The commissioner and Shah's kind of brought that up.

1877
02:57:07,890 --> 02:57:11,170
The lack of planning and infrastructure in the area of crapped in hills.

1878
02:57:11,690 --> 02:57:16,230
When you come up, Wabas, you do end up in that area where it drops down.

1879
02:57:16,230 --> 02:57:23,450
and that's Panorama Drive, which is actually a community where I belong to, and I have property

1880
02:57:23,450 --> 02:57:31,750
at coming down, going south, down on Lop Ash. So if you look at the drawing up there, that's

1881
02:57:31,750 --> 02:57:35,570
one of my biggest concerns is if you look at the community that the developers are putting

1882
02:57:35,570 --> 02:57:40,490
out there or the project. It's all code of sex. I don't see anywhere where they're actually

1883
02:57:40,490 --> 02:57:46,150
doing anything to improve ways around traffic. I have a child that has a rare

1884
02:57:46,150 --> 02:57:50,370
Syndrome and one of the biggest concerns is getting, you know, prior medicine they're in and out.

1885
02:57:50,590 --> 02:57:55,330
We obviously have to use them more than normal family would, but, you know, fire department,

1886
02:57:56,050 --> 02:58:01,990
the, the, the, these kind of emergency personnel, and I just see a bunch of prototypes with 67 homes.

1887
02:58:01,990 --> 02:58:06,890
It's going to just create additional traffic to what already exists during the time of traffic.

1888
02:58:08,190 --> 02:58:13,150
Well, if I just have an exit coming out, going east off the freeway, but then when you have to get back on the freeway,

1889
02:58:13,170 --> 02:58:15,510
you do have to go out forward as you guys were mentioning.

1890
02:58:15,510 --> 02:58:22,530
you have to get on forward so it's just I don't I don't see how they've done their homework

1891
02:58:22,530 --> 02:58:28,570
in regards to given this access to multiple areas not just Wabash being the point of access

1892
02:58:28,570 --> 02:58:35,750
for everyone including in additional 67 homes and obviously families that are going to be living

1893
02:58:35,750 --> 02:58:45,490
in those homes we have to consider the fact that that's going to create more traffic when we are

1894
02:58:45,490 --> 02:58:52,610
Wabash, that's one of my biggest concerns for us in the community in that area, there wouldn't

1895
02:58:52,610 --> 02:58:58,130
well look at my notes, but you have access where they can create access if you look at their

1896
02:58:58,130 --> 02:59:02,190
drawings, they have G Street, which is the Colorsek Way at the bottom, when they're drawings,

1897
02:59:02,590 --> 02:59:08,130
that G Street actually goes to Jason to Opel Avenue, they can create access there to Opel Avenue,

1898
02:59:08,250 --> 02:59:14,510
which is a public right away and try to find ways to give us more access to Reservoir to get us back

1899
02:59:14,510 --> 02:59:20,450
the freeway or off the freeway. These are some of the things that I feel like the developers

1900
02:59:20,450 --> 02:59:24,370
are not considering, again, all of us in the community, and they're just kind of looking at

1901
02:59:24,370 --> 02:59:29,870
their project and seeing what would accommodate them with these codosax in place and having

1902
02:59:29,870 --> 02:59:36,750
to avoid traffic and general for all of us. They're going to be dealing with, if you guys do

1903
02:59:36,750 --> 02:59:42,270
approve this development, we're going to end up dealing with this on a day-to-day basis. Again,

1904
02:59:42,270 --> 02:59:47,650
my biggest concern is that, you know, we need to be able to have emergency personnel, you

1905
02:59:47,650 --> 02:59:52,330
know, not just ourselves, but then to be able to come in and out of there without having

1906
02:59:52,330 --> 02:59:55,370
additional problems that we already have.

1907
02:59:56,030 --> 02:59:57,070
Okay, thank you guys.

1908
02:59:58,250 --> 02:59:58,510
Thank you.

1909
02:59:58,570 --> 02:59:59,250
Appreciate that.

1910
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:01,420
Good

1911
03:00:08,720 --> 03:00:10,540
evening.

1912
03:00:13,520 --> 03:00:18,200
My wife and I have a home at 10 panoramic drive, which is essentially the intersection

1913
03:00:18,200 --> 03:00:34,620
of old-wabash and panoramic. The road in question is bisected by our property line. The majority of

1914
03:00:34,620 --> 03:00:42,640
developer and the city of Redlands is a joint operation to extend your sphere of influence

1915
03:00:42,640 --> 03:00:49,320
with San Bernardino County on the final vacating of the remainder of Wabash Avenue.

1916
03:00:49,580 --> 03:00:56,660
It's going to be abandoned from the north boundary of this subdivision down to Reservoir Road.

1917
03:00:57,200 --> 03:01:02,400
That part is part of this project. Our property line is essentially the north boundary of

1918
03:01:02,400 --> 03:01:13,600
43, by leaving that upper stretch of Wabash unvacated or creating, it would create an unnecessary

1919
03:01:13,600 --> 03:01:21,380
and undue burden on we property owners up there, specifically on our neighbor directly across

1920
03:01:21,760 --> 03:01:31,500
the Wabash alignment from us, whose driveway on paper version of Wabash Avenue and it's

1921
03:01:31,500 --> 03:01:37,660
goes right through his driveway. It was poor land planning 120 years ago and I would like to say that

1922
03:01:38,080 --> 03:01:45,820
let's don't compound the problem further into the 21st century by leaving a mistake on rectified.

1923
03:01:46,420 --> 03:01:50,640
Abandon the rest of the wash up to the panoramic intersection,

1924
03:01:52,300 --> 03:02:01,300
grant us the permission with that vacating to block that off, get it. We need access for fire

1925
03:02:01,300 --> 03:02:07,220
behavior with our neighbor and us down there, it serves no public good and on my wife's

1926
03:02:07,220 --> 03:02:13,340
and my side of that line, we're only talking about 2,400 square feet.

1927
03:02:14,000 --> 03:02:21,160
In comparison to 67 and 1,5 acres, I think it's a real small request and it would eliminate

1928
03:02:21,800 --> 03:02:24,600
a longstanding problem of a public nuisance up there.

1929
03:02:24,680 --> 03:02:31,220
Again, it serves no public good whatsoever, the topography is unpassable or it's just

1930
03:02:31,220 --> 03:02:38,400
attractive nuisance for dumping, for joy-writing, for the public thinking that they could be entitled

1931
03:02:39,100 --> 03:02:45,040
to roaming around in there when there's nothing to see, do or anything else. And it creates

1932
03:02:45,040 --> 03:02:51,260
an unfair liability on we private property owners. I'll have ever been told by both the city

1933
03:02:51,260 --> 03:02:56,060
and the county is, you can't vacate it, you can't vacate it, you can't do anything with it.

1934
03:02:56,060 --> 03:02:59,120
If I were you, I would have a lot of liability and insurance.

1935
03:03:00,220 --> 03:03:02,040
Well, that's a pretty lame excuse.

1936
03:03:03,000 --> 03:03:07,820
We'd just like it vacated, we wish the developer the rest, the best to luck with the

1937
03:03:07,820 --> 03:03:13,520
remainder of his project, we're not opposed to his project, but we would just like the problem

1938
03:03:13,980 --> 03:03:20,080
with the potential future problems with reservoir, with Wabash Avenue, Old Wabash Avenue,

1939
03:03:20,500 --> 03:03:22,720
to be rectified and put to bed once and for all.

1940
03:03:23,120 --> 03:03:24,080
Thanks for your consideration.

1941
03:03:24,960 --> 03:03:25,280
Thank you.

1942
03:03:26,420 --> 03:03:29,800
Any other public comment on this matter, Mr. Hodor?

1943
03:03:37,940 --> 03:03:40,220
Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission.

1944
03:03:40,380 --> 03:03:43,580
I'll try to make this quick. I know the hour is getting late and you've been here

1945
03:03:43,580 --> 03:03:44,180
a long time.

1946
03:03:44,440 --> 03:03:45,580
Please give us your phone name for the record.

1947
03:03:46,460 --> 03:03:47,700
My name is Andy Hodor.

1948
03:03:48,700 --> 03:03:49,640
I thought I was famous.

1949
03:03:50,340 --> 03:03:55,640
Anyway, my comments have been addressed partially by some of the previous comments referring

1950
03:03:55,640 --> 03:04:01,440
to Wabash, Old Wabash, and New Wabash, and what I recollect is when this similar project

1951
03:04:01,440 --> 03:04:03,840
was proposed quite some time ago.

1952
03:04:04,100 --> 03:04:05,740
The developer at that time said,

1953
03:04:05,740 --> 03:04:09,240
can't we just build part of Wavash and Northbound from Reservoir

1954
03:04:09,240 --> 03:04:11,180
until we get a couple of houses built?

1955
03:04:11,380 --> 03:04:13,540
We get a revenue stream, and then we can finish

1956
03:04:13,540 --> 03:04:15,840
the rest of Wavash all the way north.

1957
03:04:16,280 --> 03:04:17,920
And after that, as far as I knew,

1958
03:04:17,920 --> 03:04:19,160
the project died on the vine.

1959
03:04:19,160 --> 03:04:20,300
I never heard anything further.

1960
03:04:20,380 --> 03:04:22,020
I never saw any further development.

1961
03:04:22,700 --> 03:04:24,060
So now that this is resurrected,

1962
03:04:24,620 --> 03:04:26,480
what I would suggest and what I would hope for

1963
03:04:26,480 --> 03:04:29,580
is that the city would hold the developer accountable

1964
03:04:29,580 --> 03:04:36,060
for finishing all of Wabash as proposed new Wabash from reservoir to the next major street to the

1965
03:04:36,060 --> 03:04:40,860
north so that they don't build a short section at the bottom that serves their houses and then

1966
03:04:40,860 --> 03:04:45,520
the project gets abandoned and they go bankrupt who knows what they walk away from it with Wabash

1967
03:04:45,520 --> 03:04:50,820
half finished. I think that should be a condition of approval that they will finish all of Wabash

1968
03:04:50,820 --> 03:04:56,820
as specified by the city. Regardless of how many houses they build and then the other part I

1969
03:04:56,820 --> 03:05:03,320
to add was also alluded to is to the east of that is that vacant area it's very rugged

1970
03:05:03,320 --> 03:05:10,180
terrain. It isn't useful for much of anything else except folks on dirt bikes or off road vehicles

1971
03:05:10,180 --> 03:05:14,660
that might want to go hot riding down there and so I agree with the previous comment that

1972
03:05:14,660 --> 03:05:20,580
that that issue should be addressed also by vacating old-wavash and making it impossible once the

1973
03:05:20,580 --> 03:05:24,380
new-wavash is finished. That was my comment. Thank you. Thank you.

1974
03:05:27,320 --> 03:05:28,460
And any other public comment?

1975
03:05:29,380 --> 03:05:32,040
All right. Do we have any online comment on this item?

1976
03:05:34,840 --> 03:05:36,200
Okay, seeing none.

1977
03:05:41,210 --> 03:05:42,250
You come back to,

1978
03:05:43,110 --> 03:05:47,390
and we didn't receive any written comments on this particular item. I don't recall.

1979
03:05:53,370 --> 03:05:58,110
Okay. Does the applicant wish make a statement, please?

1980
03:06:03,910 --> 03:06:04,770
Please give us your name.

1981
03:06:05,650 --> 03:06:09,810
Did you view Mr. Sherman, member of the Commission? My name is Mohamed Yunus.

1982
03:06:13,130 --> 03:06:16,030
I'm with the

1983
03:06:16,030 --> 03:06:21,910
projects in 2012 and we were the previous owner of the previous knife that was approved

1984
03:06:21,910 --> 03:06:27,510
that has expired. For some reason, never catch up with the economy when they were able to finish

1985
03:06:27,510 --> 03:06:33,510
the project without the map expire. We visited and we solved a lot of issues that they were

1986
03:06:33,510 --> 03:06:40,090
going to address back in the old map and we provided the solution mainly to Wabash Avenue, which

1987
03:06:40,090 --> 03:06:45,930
may be of our comments and I concur. The way we address in Wabash is going to be built in one phase

1988
03:06:46,030 --> 03:06:53,530
to Mr. Orders, Mr. Lethamno, will be as part of phase one, so it would be completed all the way from reservoir,

1989
03:06:54,390 --> 03:07:02,230
and to connect with the county, the road, which is Wavash, with the Netowning, and also realign

1990
03:07:02,230 --> 03:07:10,290
Panorama and the Old Wavash to connect to a safe intersection. The Old Wavash would be terminated

1991
03:07:10,290 --> 03:07:18,830
at the north property line by a lot 43 and there are some existing homes in the old waters which

1992
03:07:18,830 --> 03:07:24,990
outside of our area is in the town area which we can not control and those were remade to have

1993
03:07:24,990 --> 03:07:30,650
access on the old waters and then have a new intersection that is saved the travel back to the

1994
03:07:30,650 --> 03:07:38,590
waters and be able to access to the north or to the south. So that's how it is open this the traffic issue

1995
03:07:38,590 --> 03:07:43,030
As far as the G3, which is then a bit of the future,

1996
03:07:43,490 --> 03:07:48,470
the Latin Hill Drive, it will terminate at the easily project boundary.

1997
03:07:49,230 --> 03:07:53,130
Currently, there is one access to an existing home, which is about

1998
03:07:53,130 --> 03:07:55,170
a few hundred feet to the east.

1999
03:07:55,670 --> 03:07:58,570
He has a license from us to be able to use it.

2000
03:07:58,750 --> 03:08:01,930
And also, it is accessible for any emergency,

2001
03:08:03,250 --> 03:08:06,410
a first responder, to fire, in case if they needed.

2002
03:08:06,410 --> 03:08:16,310
They have access to it, they have, there's a gate currently at Wavash and Reservoir for the resident to the east that he put it himself.

2003
03:08:16,890 --> 03:08:24,830
However, we have, you know, provided the fire department, the code for that gate and there'll be able to use it in case of any emergency.

2004
03:08:25,890 --> 03:08:34,210
That road has not been used for the last, that's far as we know it 12 years since we've been involved with the property, and even prior to that has not been used.

2005
03:08:34,910 --> 03:08:41,530
As far as the access to a panoramic street, it's going to improve the intersection, it's

2006
03:08:41,530 --> 03:08:46,150
going to eliminate a lot of problems for people to try to go and travel that very dangerous

2007
03:08:46,150 --> 03:08:52,510
road on the existing alignment, which is south of law 43, this kind of really very dangerous.

2008
03:08:52,810 --> 03:08:55,870
And it is outside of the alignment of the existing right away.

2009
03:08:56,390 --> 03:09:00,450
So what it will be doing, we're going to be improving on the alignment of the former

2010
03:09:00,450 --> 03:09:07,730
Avenue. We veered it toward the west. So to eliminate also a daily foot height, a daily

2011
03:09:07,730 --> 03:09:13,570
wall that was previously approved. And the impact the existing resident to the east of

2012
03:09:13,570 --> 03:09:18,570
all batch. So we veered it more to the west to eliminate that problem, but we still need

2013
03:09:18,570 --> 03:09:21,670
the design criteria that's approved by the city engineer.

2014
03:09:25,120 --> 03:09:27,440
I believe we have addressed all the

2015
03:09:27,440 --> 03:09:32,780
issues. We solved a lot of engineering, so that we went to just before. We provided all the

2016
03:09:32,780 --> 03:09:36,520
amount of documentation. We have data to all the studies to make sure that we are

2017
03:09:36,520 --> 03:09:41,240
currently receiving all the requirements. We have some mitigation measures that we

2018
03:09:41,240 --> 03:09:45,560
have to implement in your construction, which we are honored. We accepted the

2019
03:09:45,560 --> 03:09:51,100
conditions. We work closely with staff and we resolve all the issues. And I

2020
03:09:51,100 --> 03:09:55,520
really thank them for their religion to work, but they have worked with us throughout the

2021
03:09:55,520 --> 03:10:00,500
years just to try to solve these issues and we're able to solve it. And with that,

2022
03:10:02,760 --> 03:10:02,760
we

2023
03:10:02,760 --> 03:10:06,700
And I look forward to your approval for this project.

2024
03:10:06,900 --> 03:10:09,220
It should be improved on the traffic situation.

2025
03:10:09,660 --> 03:10:13,680
It address all the issues that the resident may have concerned either

2026
03:10:13,680 --> 03:10:15,200
to the north or to the south.

2027
03:10:15,620 --> 03:10:18,760
I think outside our project limit project and that support

2028
03:10:18,760 --> 03:10:21,740
any other condition outside of the project.

2029
03:10:21,980 --> 03:10:23,020
This is not part of the project.

2030
03:10:23,240 --> 03:10:24,160
It is not part of the project.

2031
03:10:24,540 --> 03:10:28,240
Based on the traffic study and all the other environmental departments.

2032
03:10:29,640 --> 03:10:29,900
Thank you.

2033
03:10:29,900 --> 03:10:34,120
but that I'll be available for any question you may have.

2034
03:10:34,600 --> 03:10:35,300
Thank you, Mr. Eunice.

2035
03:10:38,950 --> 03:10:47,590
With that, we'll close the public hearing and continue with the comments from Commission.

2036
03:10:51,770 --> 03:10:56,030
Typically, we don't have a return comment, but thank you.

2037
03:10:57,510 --> 03:10:58,710
Commissioner Shaw.

2038
03:10:59,270 --> 03:11:03,210
I'm not sure I understood kind of a follow-up question for the developer.

2039
03:11:04,630 --> 03:11:09,270
The new Wavash, obviously, will align in this way, which we're panorama.

2040
03:11:09,790 --> 03:11:15,070
You mentioned the old Wavash at panorama, and you said, I thought you said something about improvements there.

2041
03:11:15,510 --> 03:11:19,130
Yes, there's an intersection as you see it on the map right there, up on the north.

2042
03:11:19,910 --> 03:11:26,850
That's the old Wavash is being re-aligned to be a 90 degree intersection where the new alignment of Wavash

2043
03:11:26,850 --> 03:11:29,010
that will improve on the existing conditions.

2044
03:11:33,460 --> 03:11:39,420
Well, Panorama is further to the north, but this is the old Wavash, we connect to the

2045
03:11:39,420 --> 03:11:41,120
new element of Wavash.

2046
03:11:42,760 --> 03:11:45,480
So what happens with the rest of old Wavash, where it goes up to Panorama?

2047
03:11:46,700 --> 03:11:53,760
It's going to be improved up to about, I believe, 200 or 300 feet north of Panorama

2048
03:11:53,760 --> 03:11:57,660
project and to connect to the existing road, right at Panorama.

2049
03:11:57,660 --> 03:11:58,560
That

2050
03:12:02,940 --> 03:12:05,340
then becomes the county is outside of our project.

2051
03:12:05,600 --> 03:12:09,820
We already improving more than 1200 feet outside of our project limit.

2052
03:12:10,220 --> 03:12:15,460
Just to make sure that we provide the safe transition of foravash and improve on the existing traffic condition.

2053
03:12:16,180 --> 03:12:19,080
Based on the traffic study and recommendation of the traffic study.

2054
03:12:20,300 --> 03:12:21,540
Okay, so I'm sorry.

2055
03:12:21,560 --> 03:12:24,020
I'm trying to visualize just if you can help me understand it.

2056
03:12:24,020 --> 03:12:30,500
So we're going to have new wall bash and then we're going to have old wall bash and old wall bash is going to be new wall bash.

2057
03:12:30,500 --> 03:12:34,300
But there's still part of Old Wallabash that's going to continue up to Panorama.

2058
03:12:35,220 --> 03:12:37,300
Correct, and continue further to the north, actually.

2059
03:12:37,740 --> 03:12:45,880
The existing intersection of Panorama are to remain, which is outside of our project, and then the alignment of all of us continue it to the north.

2060
03:12:46,720 --> 03:12:48,860
For fifth, three, and further to the north.

2061
03:12:49,160 --> 03:12:50,760
So we have two Old Wallabashes.

2062
03:12:50,860 --> 03:12:51,820
No, just one.

2063
03:12:52,320 --> 03:12:57,540
One Old Wallabash from north of Lot 43 up to the intersection with the New Wallabash.

2064
03:12:58,460 --> 03:12:58,880
That's it.

2065
03:12:58,880 --> 03:13:11,520
But there's an existing wall bash that then continues up to Panorama, which is we're meeting that the existing alignment and the North we are meeting the existing alignment of wall bash at the intersection with the old wall bash.

2066
03:13:12,140 --> 03:13:17,400
This is the existing alignment if you're looking at the intersection where the nine of the green the intersection.

2067
03:13:18,460 --> 03:13:21,800
Can I walk over here and try to figure it out on the map or please do.

2068
03:13:21,800 --> 03:13:30,260
I'm also a little bit confused where this comes into play in the section that Mr. Coffin was referring to.

2069
03:13:43,730 --> 03:13:48,190
No, it doesn't. No, it's the fear of connecting the alignment of the new Wavash.

2070
03:13:48,330 --> 03:13:50,030
It does not continue to,

2071
03:14:01,600 --> 03:14:03,040
no, sorry.

2072
03:14:03,960 --> 03:14:09,580
The real element of Wavash, at the old Wavash, this is the current existing alignment of Wavash.

2073
03:14:09,700 --> 03:14:11,020
It terminated right at that point.

2074
03:14:20,320 --> 03:14:26,700
If we could put anything over puts the aerial photograph so I could show it exactly.

2075
03:14:26,900 --> 03:14:27,400
I can.

2076
03:14:30,750 --> 03:14:30,870
I can.

2077
03:14:30,870 --> 03:14:32,110
But we can hold it on that.

2078
03:14:32,830 --> 03:14:33,150
I can

2079
03:14:52,830 --> 03:14:57,770
see that this is a bit too short.

2080
03:14:58,190 --> 03:14:59,770
I'm going to try this.

2081
03:15:10,800 --> 03:15:26,580
Commissioners, not just explain it, you know, where the tea in our section is, that it used to be a curse in front of that love, if you're cornered. So I stand up front on his corner lot and continue to ignore it. But if you did, you just realized it at that location.

2082
03:16:20,260 --> 03:16:25,920
excuse me we need to make sure we're using microphones when we're talking we have a

2083
03:16:25,920 --> 03:16:30,200
robin mic we can give you sorry yeah we're looking at the area we're here with

2084
03:16:30,200 --> 03:16:36,700
for the funded boundary, and it shows the way that the new war bashed, if we exist in

2085
03:16:36,700 --> 03:16:43,380
war bashed at the same location, we're not changing the location of war bashed at the

2086
03:16:43,380 --> 03:16:49,760
intersection with the new war bashed. We're not changing it. If you made a look at this,

2087
03:16:50,080 --> 03:16:50,080
yeah,

2088
03:17:01,260 --> 03:17:05,220
see if I'm, I mean, sure you, sure.

2089
03:17:06,120 --> 03:17:08,960
And therefore, pose all up to the microphone.

2090
03:17:10,620 --> 03:17:12,340
And if a pose of my understanding was, is that,

2091
03:17:12,580 --> 03:17:15,020
Wavash, instead of continuing down like it used to,

2092
03:17:15,340 --> 03:17:19,720
will come around this way where the grade is less substantial,

2093
03:17:20,040 --> 03:17:22,380
or somehow it will come, this way.

2094
03:17:23,180 --> 03:17:25,400
Okay. This is the new Wavash.

2095
03:17:25,780 --> 03:17:26,000
Okay.

2096
03:17:26,700 --> 03:17:29,100
It's determined that they exist in Wavash.

2097
03:17:29,540 --> 03:17:30,360
But I mean, it's right there.

2098
03:17:31,200 --> 03:17:34,180
We're re-aligning this to make the theater such that we're keeping

2099
03:17:34,180 --> 03:17:36,600
That's the limit. We're not touching it.

2100
03:17:36,780 --> 03:17:41,400
I understand that. Okay. So what happens here at Panorama?

2101
03:17:43,850 --> 03:17:46,570
We're not touching it. We're just stopping the project right at the

2102
03:17:46,570 --> 03:17:49,170
motility of here. We're just keeping it to your clothes.

2103
03:17:49,310 --> 03:17:53,730
See what they're doing. And Panorama was so have a connection to the old

2104
03:17:53,730 --> 03:17:57,250
lot of us. See what they're doing. Okay.

2105
03:17:57,250 --> 03:18:01,510
Hold on, just a second. Okay. I understand that I'm here. I don't want

2106
03:18:01,510 --> 03:18:02,790
That's what it is.

2107
03:18:07,360 --> 03:18:09,220
That's what it is.

2108
03:18:09,220 --> 03:18:10,080
That's what it is.

2109
03:18:10,180 --> 03:18:10,660
That's what it is.

2110
03:18:10,660 --> 03:18:10,680
That's what it is.

2111
03:18:10,680 --> 03:18:10,780
That's what it is.

2112
03:18:10,780 --> 03:18:10,780
Is

2113
03:18:31,610 --> 03:18:32,250
it a coffin?

2114
03:18:32,350 --> 03:18:37,110
Could you point it to Mr. Foot, this section of road that your family is referring to?

2115
03:18:39,040 --> 03:18:45,460
I was asking Mrs. Coffin if she could point out on that aerial view, the section of Old

2116
03:18:45,460 --> 03:18:49,080
Wabash that Mr. Coffin referred to and it is public comment.

2117
03:19:00,280 --> 03:19:01,820
And I'm not sure where you want to be.

2118
03:19:17,370 --> 03:19:19,110
Old Wabash, he was referring to.

2119
03:19:24,320 --> 03:19:25,020
I mean, what is it?

2120
03:19:25,500 --> 03:19:26,180
That's correct.

2121
03:19:26,180 --> 03:19:32,860
That's the new alignment over there. This is the new intersection of Old Wabash, New Wabash.

2122
03:19:33,520 --> 03:19:45,460
This is the intersection of Panorama Drive and the road as traveled and the right of way of the Old Wabash.

2123
03:19:45,740 --> 03:19:47,660
And that's the person you're saying is in the county's jurisdiction.

2124
03:19:47,660 --> 03:19:56,760
that's correct as Mr. Jonas Illustrated, the city limit line is the North, his North

2125
03:19:56,760 --> 03:20:04,860
boundary, our south boundary, and it's a little bit in question over here on the West.

2126
03:20:05,380 --> 03:20:15,560
The small triangle I believe is county, but Mr. and Mrs. Cordova's home on the West side

2127
03:20:15,560 --> 03:20:17,940
city of redlands.

2128
03:20:18,460 --> 03:20:23,660
Yeah, so that's something that's outside the project site and that would be a correct.

2129
03:20:24,120 --> 03:20:24,220
Correct.

2130
03:20:24,220 --> 03:20:24,460
Correct.

2131
03:20:24,840 --> 03:20:31,640
And our comment is, if you would extend your spirit of influence, because all the traffic

2132
03:20:31,640 --> 03:20:35,880
that comes to this intersection is generated in redlands.

2133
03:20:36,580 --> 03:20:39,080
Yeah, we'd have to have our engineering staff talk to the county engineering.

2134
03:20:39,340 --> 03:20:39,600
Correct.

2135
03:20:40,060 --> 03:20:40,420
Correct.

2136
03:20:40,480 --> 03:20:41,540
That's our request.

2137
03:20:46,000 --> 03:20:53,000
Mr. Fett, John Young would like to speak his hand-to-series.

2138
03:20:54,980 --> 03:20:56,320
Mr. Young, please go ahead.

2139
03:20:56,880 --> 03:20:57,360
Mr.

2140
03:21:30,440 --> 03:21:31,500
Young, are you able to go ahead?

2141
03:21:31,640 --> 03:21:32,900
This is John Young.

2142
03:21:35,470 --> 03:21:36,270
Are you able to hear me?

2143
03:21:36,550 --> 03:21:39,410
Yes, thank you. Please go ahead.

2144
03:21:39,670 --> 03:21:41,430
My apologies for not being there.

2145
03:21:42,930 --> 03:21:47,250
The short section from the coffin property,

2146
03:21:47,530 --> 03:21:51,530
Fatherly where the existing dirt wall bash road

2147
03:21:51,530 --> 03:21:55,910
does not stay within the existing right-of-way of wall bash

2148
03:21:55,910 --> 03:21:58,290
and does go across coffin property.

2149
03:21:58,750 --> 03:22:02,450
That section has been pointed out,

2150
03:22:02,650 --> 03:22:03,650
is within the county.

2151
03:22:04,910 --> 03:22:09,230
And the city wouldn't,

2152
03:22:11,410 --> 03:22:11,410
you know,

2153
03:22:11,410 --> 03:22:17,470
that section of road because it is in the county. I would participate in discussions with the county

2154
03:22:17,470 --> 03:22:23,090
as to the need for the road or lock their road and what actually need to be taken.

2155
03:22:26,500 --> 03:22:32,220
Okay, thank you, Mr. Young. If we can bring the conversation back to the development at hand,

2156
03:22:35,220 --> 03:22:43,430
did we resolve the questions? I think so. I'm still not exactly certain what's going to happen at

2157
03:22:43,430 --> 03:22:48,690
passion, panorama, but that's going to be a county issue. It sounds like, and that's my concern.

2158
03:22:51,870 --> 03:22:57,150
So, right, that's one of the library discussions of a road ahead in some time. Commissioner

2159
03:22:57,150 --> 03:22:57,970
Hansley, you're late.

2160
03:22:59,530 --> 03:23:03,870
Actually, I just wanted to see if we could, for the sake of sharing on the screen, if there's

2161
03:23:03,870 --> 03:23:10,170
any way to indicate that on one of the site plans or elsewhere, what this discussion has

2162
03:23:10,170 --> 03:23:15,210
been pertaining to, just for people who, and the record, just so that we can see where

2163
03:23:15,210 --> 03:23:21,670
that's that. I believe we have clarity there. I don't know if there's a way to use the cursor

2164
03:23:21,670 --> 03:23:28,630
to show on the map where we're talking about in question. If we go up, I think there's a slide

2165
03:23:28,630 --> 03:23:33,030
before that that actually shows the current condition, aerial photograph.

2166
03:23:36,050 --> 03:23:37,150
And if we, you know,

2167
03:23:37,210 --> 03:23:43,110
blow that up in Zoom, and I think we can, we can point on screen to what we're speaking

2168
03:23:43,110 --> 03:23:44,930
to here as my only request.

2169
03:23:49,890 --> 03:23:57,840
I would use the mouse so that it's recorded and also available for

2170
03:23:57,840 --> 03:23:58,880
those tuning in on Zoom.

2171
03:24:02,600 --> 03:24:05,460
I will try to use the mouse and the pointer at the same time

2172
03:24:07,670 --> 03:24:08,250
here.

2173
03:24:11,620 --> 03:24:16,720
So the red shape indicates the project site in the area where we were just talking about is to

2174
03:24:16,720 --> 03:24:21,400
the upper right of the project site that's actually county unincorporated area.

2175
03:24:35,100 --> 03:24:36,380
I think this is the

2176
03:24:36,380 --> 03:24:38,560
That's few we're going to get at this point.

2177
03:24:40,330 --> 03:24:47,050
The fact of the matter the area the Mr. Foot is pointing to is to the northeast of the project site and outside of the city of Redlands.

2178
03:24:56,480 --> 03:24:56,880
Thank

2179
03:25:03,480 --> 03:25:03,880
you.

2180
03:25:04,040 --> 03:25:06,020
Mr. Younger, are you able to.

2181
03:25:10,680 --> 03:25:12,160
Yes, are you able to hear me?

2182
03:25:12,500 --> 03:25:13,720
Yes, thank you. Go ahead. Please.

2183
03:25:17,400 --> 03:25:20,640
What would you like to describe and I'll do my best to describe it?

2184
03:25:24,710 --> 03:25:25,290
Mr. Shaw.

2185
03:25:26,330 --> 03:25:29,590
Actually, with the with the pointer, I think we resolved.

2186
03:25:30,610 --> 03:25:35,290
What Dr. Commissioner Ansley was asking for just a clarification of where this area of

2187
03:25:35,290 --> 03:25:37,990
contention was and we establish it's outside of the city.

2188
03:25:44,220 --> 03:25:46,100
Thank you.

2189
03:25:46,140 --> 03:25:46,740
All right.

2190
03:25:47,080 --> 03:25:47,620
Was that commissioner?

2191
03:25:47,760 --> 03:25:48,440
Do we have a motion?

2192
03:26:19,110 --> 03:26:19,350
All right.

2193
03:26:19,430 --> 03:26:24,650
I moved to adopt resolution number 1, 6, 1, 0, adopting a mitigated negative declaration prepared

2194
03:26:24,650 --> 03:26:28,490
for the proposed project in accordance with the state law and the California Environmental

2195
03:26:28,490 --> 03:26:34,650
Quality Act and approved tentative track map number 2, 0, 3, 2, 0, conditional use permit

2196
03:26:34,650 --> 03:26:39,850
number 1, 1, 4, 8, and the related socioeconomic cost benefit study for the project.

2197
03:26:40,970 --> 03:26:42,210
So do these together when?

2198
03:26:44,740 --> 03:26:46,480
We can do them as a package, sure.

2199
03:26:47,300 --> 03:26:49,020
I think you have a package, we'll probably be best.

2200
03:26:49,320 --> 03:26:54,780
All right, and then I also moved to adopt resolution number 1, 6, 1, 1 to make a determination of general plan,

2201
03:26:54,940 --> 03:27:00,720
conformity for street vacation number 1, 9, 1, and recommend approval of the street vacation to the city council.

2202
03:27:00,720 --> 03:27:04,540
And it's through a third or just the two,

2203
03:27:07,040 --> 03:27:08,220
those are the two red allusions.

2204
03:27:10,820 --> 03:27:11,880
Move by Commissioner Wells.

2205
03:27:12,880 --> 03:27:14,080
Second by Commissioner Smith.

2206
03:27:14,200 --> 03:27:14,980
All in favor.

2207
03:27:16,100 --> 03:27:16,700
Any opposed?

2208
03:27:17,900 --> 03:27:18,360
Jerry Janana.

2209
03:27:20,310 --> 03:27:21,050
This is Jerry.

2210
03:27:21,230 --> 03:27:21,650
Just have a question.

2211
03:27:21,930 --> 03:27:27,810
Is there a way that, because it's outside of the project, that intersection of if and

2212
03:27:27,810 --> 03:27:28,410
Wabash?

2213
03:27:28,630 --> 03:27:33,210
Is that something that the city can look into as the, as this project is progressing?

2214
03:27:33,210 --> 03:27:36,610
How are we going to deal with the traffic issue that's going to be presented down there with

2215
03:27:36,610 --> 03:27:37,710
Bob Ash pushing through?

2216
03:27:41,480 --> 03:27:50,680
That's a good point, and it is outside of the project area, but that's one that we can discuss

2217
03:27:50,680 --> 03:27:57,360
with staff in terms of general development in the city,

2218
03:28:07,480 --> 03:28:08,500
which we're talking about punching

2219
03:28:08,500 --> 03:28:11,320
a through to connect with other streets, correct?

2220
03:28:32,190 --> 03:28:41,410
But this, this, this item has been moved in past now, and, and within the project site, the, the, design,

2221
03:28:42,890 --> 03:28:50,230
uh, within, uh, within that project site and cul-de-sax or not, and use one in developments like this.

2222
03:28:50,450 --> 03:28:52,990
But I, I do appreciate your, you're, you're sharing with us.

2223
03:28:57,920 --> 03:28:58,180
All right.

2224
03:28:58,320 --> 03:29:01,660
This has been a very full and lively meeting.

2225
03:29:01,720 --> 03:29:04,240
And I think, thank you all for your patience with it.

2226
03:29:04,240 --> 03:29:11,240
to conclude Director DeSatnik any thing to report director's report?

2227
03:29:11,840 --> 03:29:19,060
No, I don't, just other than we will be having a meeting on February 14th.

2228
03:29:19,060 --> 03:29:20,320
That's okay with everybody.

2229
03:29:20,520 --> 03:29:22,820
I know it's a Valentine's day.

2230
03:29:26,080 --> 03:29:27,220
We love our city.

2231
03:29:29,060 --> 03:29:30,560
All right, and any commissioner announcements?

2232
03:29:32,300 --> 03:29:36,200
All right, with that, we are adjourned until our next regular meeting

2233
03:29:36,200 --> 03:29:38,780
of February 14th. Thank you again. Good night.