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Hello everybody.
Welcome.

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Um,
great to have so many of you here today.

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Got packed agenda. Um, let's see. It's
my first time doing this, so I have

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really good support, but in case it
looks a little bumpy, it is. So

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[laughter]
um right so I think uh the first thing

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we want to do is uh open up this
>> yeah so just confirm that we have a quum

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and then uh open the uh meeting.
>> Okay to confirm we have a qu for quum

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there are three of us here today and uh
the uh zoning board of appeals meeting

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August 19th 2026.
[clears throat]

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All in favor ask for a second.
>> Oh, second.

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» Very good. Um, so I think the um there
are a couple modifications to the posted

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agenda. So I will hit those first and
then we can talk about items from last

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meeting. Um, first of all, the um the
Miller Road preservationists have been

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rescheduled from tonight until next I'd
like to propose that they uh that we re

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» Yeah. Okay. So, uh at the last meeting,
uh we the ZBA scheduled public hearing

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for the Mill Road preservationist. They
didn't get the notice out.

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» Um so I suggest that we um make a motion
to reschedule the public hearing for

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September 16th.

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» Well, I can't make a motion.
I was going to make a motion. Okay. So,

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I'd like to make a motion that we
reschedu the Milro Preservationist

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public hearing to September 16th. Do I
have a second?

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All
>> in favor? Uh

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Um
the second change is that uh the foster

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flooring public hearing was actually
closed at the last meeting. So that will

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be part of business
if there's anybody here for that.

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» And Cara, just on on that note, I do
have um some resolutions drafted for

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Foster Floring and Samuels and Gotley
Graham. Uh I usually try to get them

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posted uh but I wasn't able to do that.
So there are some um at the top um at

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the top here for anyone who's interested
in the audience for those.

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Thank you very much.
Um so uh then our next order of business

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is to uh approve the meetings from the
July 15th

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meeting. Um, has everybody had a chance
to take over those? And you know, all

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looks good. Okay, I'd like to make a
motion to approve the minutes from the

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July 15th. Do I have a second?
All in favor?

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Um, okay. And with that, we have three
new applications on the agenda for

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tonight. Um, we're hearing about those
and we are uh ready to open this

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section. No, little writing. Okay. Um,
so we'll start with our first

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application and that is uh Eric
Grimbleman 55 Lane. You want to come up

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and take the mic and
is this you you already have your

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presentation up? Is that

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» Thank you, R. I guess this is the first
time he's done that.

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» Fabulous. Thank you.
Good evening. Um my name is Kurt Sen.

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I'm an architect um working with Eric
Ruiz on the project and um we're

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actually before the planning board um
for a special use permit. Um but we do

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have uh a front yard setback that's been
determined uh to meet an area. Um so

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that's why we're here tonight. Um,
and

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I'll walk walk you through it. Um,
people

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could be okay. Do we have the pointer?

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» Are we deciding?
>> We're deciding whether or not

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» I'm going to bring that up. at the
question. So if you could just proceed,

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I'll bring that question.
>> Okay. So

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» point.

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» Can everybody hear me?
>> People usually stand over by the mic to

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do it.

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» All right. Can everybody hear me now?
>> Yeah.

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So um uh this is a single family uh
residential property. It's a historic

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site. It's a um old stone house. Uh it's
comprised of three land parcels. One

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here that's blowing off the screen. Uh
the second one here which the um house

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is on and then there's a third parcel
that kind of goes off the screen over

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here. Um so Mine Coupe Lane is a dead
end road and it kind of ends at a

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lollipop right here. There's one more
house at the end of the road here and um

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the road cuts right through the middle
of the property. Um so the question came

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up is this the front yard and we um have
taken position that the road um

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determines you know the front yard and
so uh this would be um this is the

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existing house that's not hatched. So
the front of the house would be this

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face right here. Uh the front face is 36
ft from the center line of the road. Our

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new addition is on the back of the house
completely. Um and that is um 65 ft from

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the center of the road. Um but there is
one edge of the addition that comes

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towards the sideyard two feet and I
believe that is um the element that is

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triggering the variance because um we
are even though we're on completely on

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the back of the building um uh speaking
with the zoning administrator um the

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addition goes closer to a property line
and that's what triggers um the

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addition.
as per the clause that he cites. So, um,

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basically, um, I'll just walk you
through a couple of the other elements.

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There's an existing garage here. There's
an existing cabin cottage here. Um, and

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there's a garden here and garden shed.
Um, there's ponds on the property. Um,

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it's residential world.
So, that's pretty much the lay of the

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land.
Um

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uh this is a closeup of the existing
stone house which is right here. Um this

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is a 1950s edition that came off the
stone house and you can see our hatched

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edition here. This is our new hatched
edition. It's a kitchen. And then this

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is an extension of the terrace. There's
an existing terrace right here and we're

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extending that back.
Okay. And I don't know if you want to

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deploy plans. I can go through them, but
they also did provide renderings of what

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the proposals would like.

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That would be helpful. It just needs
quite a clarification. The the I thought

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the issue was the projection into the
front yard set back. So, [clears throat]

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» yeah. Yeah.
>> So this is the section of the zoning law

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that is um being cited here. It's um so
as Mr. Sutherland had mentioned um this

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is a pre-existing house. It's actually
on the historic district. Um I think

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it's from 1730. Is that where the house
is from?

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» Yeah. So section H this is the section
125-19 which is talking about um zoning

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district regulations and what section H
says is that the existing front side and

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rear yards adjoining existing structures
built prior to December 2009 um one or

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more of which may be less in depth than
the minimum setback set forth with

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article 4 area bulk rigs
um and therefore not complying shall be

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considered grandfathered upon this
chapter.

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Additions or other improvements to such
structures that may be proposed shall be

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authorized without requirements of an
area variance provided that the addition

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or other improvement is no nearer any
property lines than the existing

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structure. So what um I spoke with Mike
Gard who's the current zoning

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enforcement officer and he had pointed
to the second se sentence um which says

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no mirror to any property line in the
existing structure. So that's what um

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the applicant was just explaining is
that even though it's not further into

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the setback of the front yard, it's
still closer to sideyard because it

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projects a little bit closer and the
rear yard bicycles

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» of course. Um,
but the I was looking at this because I

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had always kind of been under the
impression that you don't want to create

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more of a nonconformity and I think that
in the past and perhaps it's just that

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any additions happen to be further
encroaching into what you know kind of

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further encroaching into the setback
and what I had read from the first

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sentence was that it's saying that the
if you have an existing front side or

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rear yard that is non the non-complying
that's considered grandfathered in. And

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then the second sentence says, if you
have an addition that goes further to a

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property line, then you need an area
variance. And I guess the question that

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I posed as the DPA, you could interpret
this zoning law. I didn't know if you

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also interpret it as the zoning
enforcement officer that just focusing

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on the second sentence alone saying that
additions that um are now closer to the

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property line require an area variance
in which case we'll continue with this

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application.
Or if you also read it that with in

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conjunction with the first one, the
first sentence kind of is saying that if

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you have an existing structure that's
within the setback already built prior

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to 2009,
those setbacks are grandfathered in.

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And if those additions that are already
in the setback go closer to the property

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line, then the area of variance is
required almost like making it

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conforming. So my question I was under
the impression that this side and rear

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yard uh they would not begin
not infringing on the side and rear yard

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set
>> right the current set those are fine

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» right so this the and and yeah so the
side and rear setbacks in the RC5 is 50

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ft and they're within those 50 ft it's
because the addition on the side

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» is closer to the property property line
a property line happens to be the side

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property line that Mike Dugard was
reading the second sentence and saying

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you know focusing on this line no nearer
to any property line so that's what he's

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picking up on I think the ZBA could
reasonably interpret this as

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two sentences one is that if the
existing building is already within the

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setback
the lines lines are grandfathered in.

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And then this second sentence about
nearer to the property line is in

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conjunction with the existing
non-conforming.

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» Exactly. That's how I read it.
>> Right. So that's and apply to the front

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is is the way I read it.
>> Okay. Yeah.

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» And in this case, it's not any closer to
the front

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existing.
>> But do we need to bring them into

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compliance since they're touching the
bit that's in the setback? Well, with an

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area variance, what you're trying to do
is that so with a setback, you're not

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supposed to have any structures within
from the road to where the setback is.

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So, we typically calculate that from
where it's closest to the road, in which

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case they're already kind of
grandfathered in because they're 35 ft

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from it now and they're still in the
setback, but they're not any further.

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That kind of goes to that they're not
any nearer to the property line. than

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what the current nonconformity is. Does
that make sense?

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» Absolutely. My only question was because
they're doing work, does that trigger

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the need to bring it into compliance
with

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» Well, again, I think it depends, I
guess, on how you how the board is

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reviewing this section. That is what we
need to

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» Right. Okay. Does everybody on the board
understand what the the question is?

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» I think so. Could [snorts] you put the
map up?

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» Sure.

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Just make sure.
>> So,

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» sorry.

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[laughter]
>> The way I read the second part of that

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um piece in the code,
>> any new addition would need a variant,

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» right? I mean that's that's how and
actually I did speak to um uh Mike

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Dardard on it and he kind of had said
too any addition likely is going to be

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unless it's like L-shaped
>> well it will be closer to some property

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line
>> most say nine out of 10 times and I

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think I think what happened in the past
was that anytime there was a new

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addition it just so happened that it was
further into the appropriate so um one

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of the keys when you're interpreting the
zoning law is that you also look at the

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whole section, too. So, I just bring
that up because I think that there's a

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way that you could interpret it that if
you're extending the nonconformity

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closer to a property line, that's when
you would need a variance. But I also

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understand this if you just read the
second sentence and it does say any

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property line. So that's why I think
it's an appropriate question to bring to

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the board as one of your um duties and
um that you can do is to interpret this.

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Okay. Thank you very much. That's why
we're here basically because when I

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first read this I thought how could it
possibly be more feed.

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So we were confused by the writing and
the town one may want to take that up.

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We couldn't figure [snorts] out what to
do but just to be on the safe side we

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wanted to bring two guys to make that
decision.

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» Yeah. And just to to um go on that. So
the way that it actually also came in

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front of this board was that it um this
uh issue was flagged during a

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pre-conference for the planning board.
So, because it's a historic house, they

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do need site plan approval. And um when
the planning board refers a variance

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application to the zoning board of
appeals, they don't need to go in front

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of the um zoning enforcement officer.
They kind of can not have the middleman.

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So, like I said, when I spoke to um Mike
Duggard, he kind of had said, "This is

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how I read it." But I think he's open if
if we have another interpretation

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because he kind of sees the same
practical problem, too. But you know, we

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have to stick with what the zoning law
is, but we can also interpret it as a

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whole as well.
>> Thank you very much. Yeah, you could see

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how that second sentence could be
rewritten in the zoning law to say, you

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know, the nonconforming setback, you
know, if if the addition got any closer

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to the nonconforming, you know, property
line,

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then it would be a variance of required.
I think that would be that would be my

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interpretation.
>> Maybe see that. Oh, sure. Yes.

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Well, it is actually helpful to just see
the picture of the house really quick.

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Right. So, here's we're we're online
googling right now looking at the the um

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front face of the building. Although the
front door is around the corner here,

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but these it was a building built in
stages. So, one of these was the

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original front door probably at one
point. Um okay. And then I just just

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want to show for the board. This is kind
of taking it this is likely where the

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addition would probably be.
>> Yeah. Right. Right back in here. So it

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would be behind these trees.
>> This is that little um dead end area is

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right over here. So you can kind of see
and it's on the same parcel that's on

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directly opposite on this other side of
the road.

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» Yeah. This is Yeah, they they own their
parcel spans you know the road both both

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sides.

208
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:55,520
Okay. Yeah. So, um, so this is a view
from like wine wine coupe lane would be

209
00:17:53,039 --> 00:17:58,320
running right here where my cursor is.
So, this is the view we were just

210
00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:03,280
looking at with the trees in front of
it. Um, that's the front face of the

211
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:08,480
building. This is the south side and
then the addition would be on this back

212
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:15,280
portion of the building. This lower roof
is existing. So, our new addition

213
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:20,160
attaches to the existing uh package.
And then this is the new kitchen here.

214
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:25,039
That's the existing uh room right here
in the first room. And then uh now we're

215
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:28,039
looking just at the new kitchen edition
here.

216
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,039
» What we wanted to do was not touch the
house.

217
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:39,440
» Yeah.
>> So we're we're extending this since

218
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:44,400
1950s or so kitchen and bathroom.
We're attaching to the latest portion of

219
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:48,400
the house, preserving the original parts
of the building, faces of the building.

220
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:52,240
» So what we need to decide is whether or
not

221
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:57,760
» Yeah, I I would say the well I would say
the first question that the board should

222
00:18:54,559 --> 00:19:02,960
be considering is is an area variance
necessary. That would be the first

223
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:08,160
question. Uh if a variance is necessary
then we'll go into the procedural um

224
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:12,880
acceptance of the application seeker
referrals. If you determine that a

225
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:16,320
variance is not necessary um you can
have those discussions now and then I

226
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:19,600
can draft up a resolution. I'll pass it
if that's what the board decides. I can

227
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:23,280
pass along to the planning board so they
know what will be coming but then I'll

228
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:29,600
take time to draft it up and prepare it
for next meeting.

229
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:38,880
» I I have one question. If we decide that
an area variance is not required in our

230
00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:42,400
reading of the code, does that then
effectively set a precedent for anybody

231
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:46,960
else coming down?
>> Yes.

232
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,760
» So we're essentially kind of rewriting
it.

233
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:53,200
» Well, I I guess it would be a rewrite.
It would be an interpretation. Okay.

234
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,320
» Um but
>> like other interpretations,

235
00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:59,320
» yes, you your decision would have
precedent.

236
00:20:01,679 --> 00:20:09,120
But it's not it like I said your job is
to interpret the zoning law. So um that

237
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:13,919
would be what the interpretation would
be um made for but you're not rewrite

238
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:17,799
you're not you know making a legislative
change or anything like that.

239
00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:24,600
My first my first reading would be

240
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:35,120
that variance is not required
that um

241
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:39,600
it's not encroaching anymore on the
setback that's too small that the

242
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:46,400
grandfather.
It's not worsening that situation.

243
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:51,280
And then to read it the other way as as
we discussed virtually requiring

244
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:55,520
variance for every
edition. Yeah.

245
00:20:52,080 --> 00:21:00,720
» Every edition which
I don't think was the intent of how that

246
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:08,720
was written. That would be my that would
be my reading

247
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:13,360
and I'm inclined to agree. My only
um question was was whether whether

248
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:18,799
because they are doing the work whether
they would be in the areas where it's

249
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:22,159
already in the front step back.
>> No, that would be grandfathered because

250
00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:24,400
they're not expanding on that work.
They're not doing anything on the front

251
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,840
of it.
>> If it if if the addition were on the

252
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:31,520
other side of the house, it'd be a whole
different discussion,

253
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:37,280
» right? No question. I think then then it
would be the question is if it's so

254
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:41,440
right now it's it's at 35 ft and the new
addition is at 65 ft but I think if any

255
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:45,600
work was done in the front where now
you're encroaching further into that

256
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:51,200
front yard setback
>> or if the addition was on the south side

257
00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:56,760
and came 2
>> of the original front of the househ.

258
00:22:01,150 --> 00:22:03,170
[clears throat]

259
00:22:04,159 --> 00:22:08,280
» Yeah.
>> Okay.

260
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:15,360
Everybody else.
>> Okay. I can draft up a resolution um for

261
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:18,159
for next month just to kind of put that
and then you get a chance to kind of see

262
00:22:17,679 --> 00:22:21,679
it
>> and then the resolution wouldn't really

263
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,159
be about this application. It would be
about

264
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:29,520
» well it it would be about this
resolution but we would put the l I

265
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:33,200
would put your reasoning in there to
explain it which might have a

266
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:37,440
presidential value to future
applications for similarly situated

267
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:41,760
applicants. In other words, applicants
that might have a non-conforming house,

268
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:45,840
additions are not encroaching further
into where the nonconformity is.

269
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,880
» Correct.
>> Because it's really only applying to

270
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:54,640
applications [clears throat]
where they haven't grandfathered in.

271
00:22:51,679 --> 00:22:59,159
» Yeah. Structure that was erected before
200.

272
00:22:56,159 --> 00:22:59,159
» Okay.

273
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:08,880
» Um, so when is when is this applicant in
front of the planning board again?

274
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:17,200
September 8th
first is a public hearing

275
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:23,200
» is a public hearing. Um so just for
here's what I'm just thinking because

276
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:29,840
the next ZBA meeting is um
>> the yeah September 16th.

277
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:36,480
Um what I would suggest car is that if
you make a motion to just say that uh

278
00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:41,440
based on our baza's interpretation of
125-19h

279
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:48,080
no area variance is needed for this
application and then ask for a second

280
00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:51,760
and then that way you they the applicant
has the vote and they can continue on

281
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,960
with the planning board. I'll draft up a
resolution just to put it in in for the

282
00:23:53,760 --> 00:24:04,159
file.
>> Okay. So, I'd like to make a motion that

283
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:11,360
um that I can never recall that um that
uh our interpretation of 12519H

284
00:24:07,919 --> 00:24:17,360
uh lead us to the DBA to feel that there
is no area variance required for this 55

285
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:23,880
win
project. Do I have a second? All in

286
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,880
favor?

287
00:24:24,159 --> 00:24:31,120
Thank you. And then I would just um also
suggest you can make a motion to direct

288
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:37,120
lines to draft up a resolution putting
your rationale in make a motion for

289
00:24:34,159 --> 00:24:41,760
grant alliance to uh write up a
resolution that can be put in the file

290
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:46,400
passing the planning board so that they
can continue with their with their

291
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:50,600
project. Do I have a second?
>> All in favor? Thanks.

292
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:56,640
» I'll let I'll let um Melanie and Jim
know um the decision as well so that

293
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:03,080
there's no
>> Great. Thank you very much.

294
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,080
» Thank you. Thank you for

295
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:16,159
our next order of business is
differently challenging.

296
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:21,480
Um, next on the agenda is a project at
35 road, case 1017.

297
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,000
Thank you very much.

298
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,919
» Great.
>> Good evening everyone. Uh, my name is

299
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:42,720
Anthony Penda. I'm an architect here
representing Aaron Patel, the owner of a

300
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:46,799
property at 35 Y Road. Uh Aaron actually
owns two plots here which are shown on

301
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:51,039
the site plan.
See

302
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:56,480
uh the smaller of the two lots is a 86
acre lot. It's a existing non-forming

303
00:25:53,679 --> 00:26:01,360
lot. Aaron also owns this uh
approximately 30 acre lot here as well.

304
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:06,799
This application is also in front of the
planning board for site plan approval as

305
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:12,480
well as a review of the historic the
locally designated historical

306
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:20,720
characteristics of the existing home.
Uh for the zoning area variances that we

307
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:25,520
are uh requesting both are entirely
focused on the smaller lot the 86 acre

308
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:29,760
lot where there are three existing
structures. Would you like me to go to

309
00:26:27,279 --> 00:26:34,559
the site plan that has all that?
>> Yeah.

310
00:26:31,039 --> 00:26:39,760
» Yeah. So, on the on the smaller lot, the
address being 35,

311
00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:46,000
there are three existing structures. Uh
here along the road, there is a

312
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:53,360
dilapidated shed. Uh it's leaning over
uh likely to collapse um imminently. Uh

313
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:58,080
that uh structure is over the property
line currently.

314
00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:04,480
Adjacent to that there is a large uh
agricultural garage

315
00:27:01,279 --> 00:27:10,880
and then there is the existing home.
The proposed project includes

316
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:17,039
demolishing the dilapidated barn,
relocating it uh within the footprint

317
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:22,720
within the property lines itself,
demolishing the large agricultural

318
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:29,919
garage, rebuilding it in a similar
footprint and similar square footage.

319
00:27:25,919 --> 00:27:39,480
uh while aligning it to um the existing
home and the uh the adjacent uh proposed

320
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,480
gate house.

321
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:49,520
Uh the house itself
uh there will there's a proposed

322
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:58,320
addition to the south which would be a a
twole open air um structure

323
00:27:53,919 --> 00:28:02,399
uh for outdoor dining. Uh there is uh an
existing sun room at the ground level

324
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:08,080
here which we are proposing to demolish
and in its footprint we build a twotory

325
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:13,760
addition uh to the east of the home. And
then this rectangle here is an addition

326
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:17,960
on the west side which will be a cover
entry porch for the home.

327
00:28:18,399 --> 00:28:25,679
Any questions so far?
>> Um the building that you're demolishing

328
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:29,919
and first building closest to the road.
Yeah, that one.

329
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:34,399
» Uh is that going to be a garage or is it
did you say it was going to be a guest

330
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:39,919
house? It it will be a utility garage
used for storage of recreational

331
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:47,840
equipment, bikes, lawnmowers. Uh there
will be a bathroom in there as well as a

332
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:52,880
a mezzanine area. Um
and then the the larger garage would be

333
00:28:50,240 --> 00:29:00,640
for equipment to maintain the the larger
parcel of land, tractors, brush, etc.

334
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:06,799
and you know um you know one or two cars
that that might need protection during

335
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:10,799
uh bad weather. Um I will say we we got
some good feedback from the the planning

336
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:16,240
board. Uh we have our public hearing on
Monday. Uh and we are already making

337
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:23,200
adjustments to what you're seeing now.
Uh in terms of the bulk of the uh the

338
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:27,039
garages, its relationship to the house
and although you know historical

339
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:32,240
preservation may not be your main
concern, we are also looking at the

340
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:37,039
details of those uh to uh preserve that
historical integrity uh and carry that

341
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:40,799
through this next chapter of the
property.

342
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:44,880
May I ask is when you are you're
referring to something in there as the

343
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,760
as the gate house.
>> Yeah, we have floor plans of each of

344
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:53,120
these.
>> Is this meant to ultimately be sort of

345
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:59,640
the gateway to the that bigger property?
>> Uh that's a good question. Actually, if

346
00:29:55,039 --> 00:29:59,640
you go back to the overall site plan

347
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:09,120
» this this one or the the
>> No, this one's great. Thank you.

348
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:15,679
» Yep. So right now there are there are
two proposed entrances

349
00:30:11,919 --> 00:30:21,360
into the site. Um both from the from BL
road are into the larger property, but

350
00:30:18,799 --> 00:30:26,960
you can see this road here services both
the smaller property and then eventually

351
00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:31,360
the the future proposed uh house up
here. Uh so there's a entrance here,

352
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:38,000
there's an entrance here. This would be
the main driveway servicing both both uh

353
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:42,960
residences. Uh this this one would be
used in winter months. Uh the case that

354
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:46,640
the owner cannot get this plowed or
there's you know kind of a shortcut

355
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:52,640
there to get a more direct access into
the home.

356
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:58,320
Um you know the the intent behind this
project is to maintain

357
00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:03,120
uh the larger property as a single
family residential home. There's no

358
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:10,559
intention whatsoever to subdivide. Uh
and we are also, you know, you might be

359
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:14,720
sensitive to the vernacular of um you
know, the the traditional farmhouse. And

360
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:19,760
um you know, that's that's kind of
what's behind the arrangement of the

361
00:31:16,159 --> 00:31:24,559
buildings in the smaller parcel. you
know, as much as we can while improving

362
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:29,360
things such as prop buildings being over
the property line and uh setbacks. You

363
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:36,440
know, we're maintaining those two
structures as a nod to those

364
00:31:31,679 --> 00:31:36,440
pre-existing dilapidated buildings.

365
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:46,159
» I have a good question. uh with that
second um driveway that you were talking

366
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,200
about, the one that can be used for the
winter.

367
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:54,000
» Um it's it is off the property lines. I
know that you own both of

368
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:58,159
I know in your application you mentioned
talking about lot adjustments. Would you

369
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:02,159
» be consider and I know you said you're
just you're making some adjustments now

370
00:31:59,919 --> 00:32:07,120
to the area and bulk and I just didn't
know is there um I know that there's an

371
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:12,320
existing driveway that kind of comes off
pretty close to where the gate house is.

372
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:17,200
I guess I just want it's not really a
ZBA concern. I just my question is just

373
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:21,279
for the future because you probably need
to have some sort of like

374
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:25,519
» easement or rightway and I just didn't
know if you were considering just even

375
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:30,320
doing a giving you know yourself to
yourself uh just so that the drive

376
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:34,720
second driveway is all on the property.
Yeah, it's a good point and one that's

377
00:32:32,159 --> 00:32:39,279
that's been raised as a way to resolve
some of the the issues we're having

378
00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:44,559
here. Uh, as we're going through the
process and having um our our monthly or

379
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:51,360
by monthly meetings, we're getting more
information. Um, so we're waiting for um

380
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:56,000
ourselves to make adjustments, but also
to to get feedback from from the town as

381
00:32:53,919 --> 00:33:00,880
to as to what is the best best path
forward. As you may have seen in the

382
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:06,399
application, you know, that is an option
to adjust that lot lining and may solve

383
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:09,720
things, you know, more than just that
for the driveway.

384
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:21,240
» There's no intent to join the two laws.
>> We can um also a question to you guys

385
00:33:17,679 --> 00:33:21,240
what is best.

386
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:30,799
We wouldn't be allowed to have two
principal dwellings on a single lot.

387
00:33:27,679 --> 00:33:36,720
» Oh yeah.
>> Or even give some more of the to6 41.4

388
00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:40,720
plus.86. So if it needs to have five or
10 and very agreeable, but the main

389
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:45,440
point is I don't want to subdivide it.
It always wants to stay as one. So

390
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:48,799
whatever you guys think is open to
>> I was thinking that might help adding a

391
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:53,279
little bit to it might help with the
ratios and some of the area variances

392
00:33:51,679 --> 00:33:59,200
that are on the list. Yeah, certainly
for the building coverage and the um lot

393
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:03,279
coverage certainly. And if you can
expand on the setback, it would still

394
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:07,919
have the question the accessory
structures limitations of 1500 ft

395
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:14,399
wouldn't change because the structures
are the structures, but it probably

396
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:18,079
would eliminate a lot. Okay.
>> Yeah, that we we assume there'll be a

397
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:21,679
commonality for those accessory
structures between your board and the

398
00:34:19,919 --> 00:34:27,520
planning board and we've already has
this discussions of of modifying those

399
00:34:23,919 --> 00:34:31,760
to better appeal to both groups um and
the code

400
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:36,879
» and I think could you just also explain
I know you talked about this but this

401
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:41,599
will a lot of it will be um paved or
gravel I guess is that

402
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:44,599
» yeah so I'll just outline the gravel
area.

403
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:54,280
Yeah. So, I mean everything you see in
the grid would be

404
00:34:49,839 --> 00:34:54,280
but you can take a look at that as well.

405
00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:08,400
» Do you I can't remember. I think you
have I'll just go through uh they do

406
00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:13,640
have just existing structures.
>> Yeah, we have photos. There should be

407
00:35:09,839 --> 00:35:13,640
some photos in here.

408
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:23,440
Yeah. So, here's the main house. Uh,
this is the east side. So, we would

409
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:28,079
propose to demolish this sun room uh and
build a two-story addition here and the

410
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:32,560
same footprint.
This is the approach from the driveway.

411
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:37,359
Uh, this is where that covered porch
would be uh to act as the main entrance

412
00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:42,000
into the home.
This is the elevation facing the road,

413
00:35:39,839 --> 00:35:48,480
the north elevation.
We would relocate these condensers to a

414
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:53,119
more concealed area. Uh, and we're
proposing a door here to gain more head

415
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:59,040
height space in the the low ceiling of
the main bedroom upstairs.

416
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:03,680
And off of this facade here, uh, we
would maintain the same roof height,

417
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:08,160
same roof pitch, extrude that out. And
then the top level, you would have a

418
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:11,800
covered porch. At the lower level would
be your covered patio.

419
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:20,320
Here is the that structure that's over
the property line.

420
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:25,280
And then here is that garage, existing
garage that we would match in square

421
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:32,440
footage and footprint. Well, I believe
somebody set back or you know how far

422
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:32,440
it's back from the property.

423
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:49,760
Do you want to see the floor plans? I
can

424
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:57,160
see but I also don't
do you guys want to see

425
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,160
I take time. Okay.

426
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:03,920
» Like a very complete application.
>> Yeah.

427
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:09,920
» What are the
>> Yeah. So um so one one I'll go through

428
00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:16,480
and and please correct me if I'm if I'm
mistaken on any of that. Um but this was

429
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:21,280
another application that was referred um
from the planning board during their

430
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:25,760
pre-conference to the ZPA. Um, if you
are continuing with this set of plans,

431
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:28,560
my recommendation would be that we also
just let the zoning enforcement officer

432
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,839
just kind of go through the plans just
to make sure that we're getting all the

433
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:39,359
area variances and getting the right
calculations. But their um map kind of

434
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:43,640
had a lot of DNS that map
81.

435
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,640
» Yeah.

436
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:54,320
» Uh so uh one of them was maximum
building coverage required is 7% and

437
00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:58,640
they're proposing 12.6%.
Um which is a I don't know if you want

438
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:04,000
to go into square footage and acreage
just for information purposes. This one

439
00:38:01,359 --> 00:38:08,640
to kind of cover um minimum lot
coverage. So the mill maximum building

440
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:12,640
coverage is the amount of the structures
that are on there and lot coverage is

441
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:15,440
all impervious surfaces including the
structures which would include the

442
00:38:14,079 --> 00:38:20,640
parking lot.
>> So the minimum it's gravel.

443
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:25,200
» Yeah, it's well that's why I wanted to
have it checked but okay.

444
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:29,599
» I would I think it's parking.
what we've seen as what we're proposing

445
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:33,599
is considered impervious even though it
is graphic.

446
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:38,320
» So the minimum coverage uh this is in
the RC5 district is 25% and what's being

447
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:44,320
proposed is 49%.
Um maximum building height for accessory

448
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:50,400
structures um is 20 ft. Uh both the
garage and the gate house are proposed

449
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:54,200
to be 25t 2 in. That's one we're going
to drop down below.

450
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:03,760
» They're
>> 18 ft.

451
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:08,000
» Uh front yard setback for the garage. Um
is uh so you can't have an accessory

452
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:12,720
structure that's either closer to the
fronting house or located within the

453
00:39:09,839 --> 00:39:21,040
front yard setback. So 100 ft is the
setback in the RC5 and they're proposing

454
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:29,760
for the garage is 50 ft um 8 in.
And sticking to the garage um sideyard

455
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:35,119
setback is 37.5 ft proposed is 3T 9 in
and the rear yard setback for the garage

456
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:41,040
is um required to be 30 ft and they're
proposing it to be 6' 10 in for the gate

457
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:47,200
house. That's the red barn that's
closest to the road. Um same um most of

458
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:53,040
them are the same uh 100 ft set back for
the front and they're proposing 12 ft 11

459
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:57,440
in. And the sideyard set back um which
will be moved into the boundaries of the

460
00:39:55,119 --> 00:40:02,640
property. It's supposed to be 37.5. It's
proposed to be 4'2 in.

461
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:07,680
Um aggregate floor area for accessory
structures which would be the uh gate

462
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:11,520
house and the garage. The limit is 1500
square f feet and they're proposing

463
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:16,800
3,322
square ft. And this one I had a question

464
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:22,480
on. You had the front parking set back
and the rear parking set back. Um 25 ft

465
00:40:20,079 --> 00:40:26,160
for the front parking and 5 ft for the
rear. But I didn't know what those

466
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:31,440
measurements are on that.
>> Okay. Uh and

467
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:33,599
» which might change I understand.
>> Do you have those measurements by

468
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,520
chance?
>> I don't believe so. I mean roughly I

469
00:40:35,359 --> 00:40:40,400
think you were pulling them off of you
know this side and this side.

470
00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:48,400
» Yeah.
>> And I guess we'll check and the zoning

471
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:53,599
officer just know what constitutes it
gravel or is it just the where?

472
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:59,520
» Yeah, it looked like from the zoning law
just where you park. Um because I was I

473
00:40:57,359 --> 00:41:04,079
wasn't sure that a resident a
residential lot would need parking but

474
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:10,960
it did say all uses. So I guess I guess
get that it's triggered. So that's where

475
00:41:07,359 --> 00:41:15,119
a change in the lot line on that side
would definitely help out any number of

476
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:19,359
those varants.
>> Yeah. Not not so much the front. The

477
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:22,480
front probably is unless they move the
buildings back, but I think that you

478
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:28,880
want to try to keep the existing
footprints. Well, certainly with the

479
00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:34,960
house, you're not
>> um what's the size difference between

480
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:39,520
the existing shed and then the new gate
house? Because it looks a little bigger.

481
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:44,000
» It is bigger and that's another um piece
that we would reduce to to get more in

482
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,880
line with the original footprint.
>> I don't have the square footage of the

483
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:50,440
existing [clears throat]
structure.

484
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,440
» Okay.

485
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:59,119
I think that makesense to the accessory,
[clears throat]

486
00:41:56,319 --> 00:42:03,359
» right? Yep.
>> The proximity is not like a very cozy

487
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:08,480
little property.
>> Yeah. The the intent, you know, the

488
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:12,560
larger site plan is to create an
experience into the site rather than

489
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:18,960
just pulling off a main road. There's
that, you know, a long long path in

490
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:25,280
these undulating hills and you come in
what is now the back of the property and

491
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:28,520
you're in this little enclosure,
this courtyard.

492
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:35,760
So, I guess um a question for the board
and also for the applicant. You said

493
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:39,680
that you're considering making changes.
How soon are you thinking about making

494
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,560
changes? because I don't want to waste
your time and I also don't want to waste

495
00:42:41,359 --> 00:42:45,200
the board's time.
>> I want to keep the process.

496
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:50,880
» Yeah, we're going to try to get them in
before the deadline, the two week

497
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:56,800
deadline ahead of the next meeting.
>> So, was that next couple Mondays from

498
00:42:53,599 --> 00:43:01,839
now? September 21st.
>> Yeah, I think they're on for

499
00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:06,160
» Oh, it's the
21st

500
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:10,560
meeting Monday. So ZBA will be meeting
before the planning board meeting. Okay.

501
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:14,960
» Um
so one thing that the board could do and

502
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:22,160
we'll wait for Joe on just well I'll
just go through it right now but then

503
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:26,000
before we take your vote is that um it's
always um

504
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:31,440
you know one of the first questions is
that this application is complete. Um,

505
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:35,599
as Katherine had mentioned, it is a
fairly comprehensive

506
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:39,280
application, but we also want to make
sure that whatever when we publish for

507
00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:44,079
the public hearing that it's also the
most accurate up to date. So we could

508
00:43:42,079 --> 00:43:49,920
accept the application, schedule the
public hearing, and then if you don't

509
00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:54,480
get it in time before the public, you
know, the public hearing is done, we can

510
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:59,280
always keep the public hearing open just
to make sure that the public has the

511
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:06,960
opportunity to review what the most
upto-date information are. Or we could

512
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:11,520
not we can also say that it's not
complete until you get the full set and

513
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:16,079
then we'll just move forward with that.
If that's doesn't create great hardship,

514
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:21,680
I would say there are enough moving
parts still that it would be good if we

515
00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:25,920
waited to the next meeting,
>> get the most current up-to-date

516
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:30,480
application, up to date application, we
accepted it.

517
00:44:28,319 --> 00:44:35,119
» So does that mean even if we got it in
before you know

518
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:40,800
I mean you would still need to get it in
two weeks before to be on the agenda

519
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:44,319
anyway. But this way the benefit is that
we're not, you know, you kind of have a

520
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:50,560
chance to make sure that you are
presenting the most up-to-date plans for

521
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:54,720
the um for the ZBA and also gives the
zoning enforcement officer times to also

522
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:59,359
adjust with the because when you put the
public hearing together, you also need

523
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:05,520
to be explain what all your variances
are. So, the benefit is that we're not

524
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:10,480
we're it's a it's a a month delay for
you, but it also provides both for the

525
00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:15,280
board and the public the most accurate
up-to-date information and it could save

526
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:19,760
you time down the road too because a lot
of questions were raised then you go

527
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:22,720
back to the drawing board. So if we can
get it ironed out. Now

528
00:45:21,359 --> 00:45:25,720
» I'm happy to do that. It sounds like
everyone.

529
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:36,160
» I just have one question which is more
for your information than for us. But if

530
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:39,119
they want to do a lot change, doesn't
that have to go before the timing board

531
00:45:38,319 --> 00:45:44,000
be reviewed?
>> Yes, that would be minor subdivision.

532
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:49,359
» It would be a minor subdivision.
And then does that add a bunch of time

533
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:52,079
onto everything or if they're if they
know what they want to do, they can just

534
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:57,119
kind of wrap it up.
>> What would be most beneficial for the

535
00:45:53,839 --> 00:46:02,800
applicant was to have a a most a most
complete and upto-date plan. So if they

536
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:07,920
want to include the lock line, it would
be beneficial for them to consider that

537
00:46:05,119 --> 00:46:10,560
now so that you don't get further and
then you have to go through another

538
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:13,280
application process. because you know
this way everything kind of move in

539
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:17,839
parallel
>> and that that's not to say you need to

540
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:20,560
do a lot that we're recommending that
but if you just if you think you want to

541
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:25,000
do it
>> it would probably reduce a lot of the

542
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,000
variances

543
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:36,000
» okay so I think for now we'll say that
it's um incomplete

544
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:41,359
yes
you'd like it to be more yeah more up to

545
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,359
date with what

546
00:46:43,839 --> 00:46:49,520
Okay.
>> So, do you need a motion for that?

547
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:52,640
» I think it's it's your statement that
it's incomplete. You're not making a

548
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:57,359
motion that is complete. So,
>> I just forotion

549
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:02,480
for anything. [laughter]
>> I don't think you need a motion.

550
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:08,160
It's not an official action to to to
have them back at the next.

551
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,599
So, I'd like to make a motion that we
>> You can make a motion that we're

552
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:16,000
declaring it incomplete and the
applicant will provide a more upto-date

553
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:22,640
plan
like make a motion that we're finding

554
00:47:17,839 --> 00:47:28,319
that uh the current application
could be more complete and we're and we

555
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:32,960
are uh therefore suggesting that they
come back at the uh next meeting on

556
00:47:31,839 --> 00:47:37,839
September 16th.
>> Yeah. Or whatever. But if you need more

557
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:44,000
time, you know, obviously don't rush it.
>> You make it so that it's u what you

558
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:49,040
envision, what you want for the board.
>> Do I have a second?

559
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:51,040
» All in favor?
>> Thank you.

560
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:54,359
» You're very welcome.
>> Great project.

561
00:47:56,240 --> 00:48:10,400
Next on the agenda is uh aqua check. We
got case 118

562
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:15,440
uh 805 route 9g. It is a variance for
science

563
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:22,240
square footage science.
>> Hi. Hi there. I'm Desiree. I own a

564
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:26,319
laboratory. Jeff Newman.
Thank you very much for coming today.

565
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:30,960
» You're welcome. Um we're here today ask
for our area variance so that we can

566
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:35,680
install a sign
on the same sign pillars underneath the

567
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:40,960
four brothers pizza sign which is the
building that we share. Um

568
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:46,520
so what we're asking for is a 4x8 sign
that would be directly underneath the

569
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:46,520
four brothers pizza sign.

570
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:53,119
When this photo was up in this photo,
you can see the existing brackets where

571
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:56,240
the previous sign had been with a
cabinet sort of

572
00:48:54,960 --> 00:49:01,359
» Yeah.
>> Exactly. So there would be no no other

573
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:07,040
changes to the lighting or the structure
design just install it on the existing

574
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:11,920
» like that.
>> Yeah, just like that. We think it would

575
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:16,640
be um appropriate for a couple different
reasons. First and foremost, when you

576
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:20,240
are coming to this property, either from
the north or from the south, the

577
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:24,880
building is not visible until you're
literally on top of the entrance to the

578
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:29,119
parking lot. And that area is 55 m an
hour. So, we're of the opinion that the

579
00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:33,119
sign should be large. It should be easy
to see, visible um just to ensure the

580
00:49:31,359 --> 00:49:36,800
safety of the motorists that are that
are coming to the laboratory. And there

581
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,920
are photos in the application you've
seen that show that approach and the

582
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:43,280
difference between being, you know, a
couple hundred feet away and being right

583
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:47,680
on the hill.
And and the idea is, you know, the sign

584
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:50,720
is there so that this is driving and
you're looking to the direction you're

585
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:55,559
driving. Hopefully that the map is going
to guide you to where you're going. You

586
00:49:52,319 --> 00:49:55,559
see the sign

587
00:49:56,319 --> 00:50:05,119
tricky tricky
tricky turning along there.

588
00:50:01,839 --> 00:50:08,880
Um, so you can't see any of the front of
the is is there sign I can't remind me.

589
00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:13,839
Is there signage on the front of the
building as well other than what

590
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:18,960
» you're as
good? Yeah. So this you cannot see until

591
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:21,520
you pull into the parking lot. It's
quite kind of small as you can see in

592
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:24,000
the photo.
>> Oh, right.

593
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:28,079
» Um, [clears throat] it's more
instructional that signage that we put

594
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:31,760
on the front of the building. um hours
and also instructions about how to

595
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:35,720
utilize the dropbox. You can't see that
unless you're in the parking lot.

596
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,640
» Is the signage on the glass, but is that
part of all these calculations?

597
00:50:39,839 --> 00:50:42,640
» No. Okay.
>> No, we would remove the signage on the

598
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,880
glass.
>> Oh, okay.

599
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:57,359
» So, the standing sign under brothers
would be your signage for both.

600
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:02,000
» That's correct. We want to utilize the
brackets that already exist and put our

601
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:06,440
sign underneath it. Exactly like cabinet
makers signs always

602
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:12,880
the business hours and the dropbox
direction sign.

603
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:17,280
» Yes. Right.
>> But you said the the window

604
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:20,720
» we would remove the window decals. Yes.
>> They're not visible anyway. Can't see

605
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:24,960
them until you pull into the parking
lot.

606
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:28,960
Do you imagine to have uh photos of the
the cabinet? Uh what was that before?

607
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,520
Okay. I'm just curious.
>> Imagine Google Earth

608
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,839
» probably. I was just thinking Google
Earth might have.

609
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:40,240
» He hasn't been gone for long. Yeah, I
think you said 2 years or so.

610
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:46,400
» Yeah. Yeah. Just that's a I can check.
>> But it's the same dimensions as the cab.

611
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:51,200
They took that that the um cabinet maker
signed down when we decided to rent the

612
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,839
building from the space and they
literally just took it off with the two

613
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:57,280
white pillars.
>> Okay.

614
00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:02,240
» So, we're we're putting in we're
planning to put our sign exactly where

615
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:05,520
his was. Don't want to change the way
that that was in any way, shape, or

616
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:09,599
form. We just want it to be visible from
the road.

617
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:13,040
» Yeah, I'll I'll see if I can find I'm
sure you can probably find some through

618
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:17,599
the historical
Is the material going to be similar? I

619
00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:21,200
mean, I'm just looking at the two styles
of the sign and they're stacked like

620
00:52:19,839 --> 00:52:24,480
that.
>> Um, it's a bit jarring.

621
00:52:23,359 --> 00:52:28,880
» It's a bit jarring
>> between the two.

622
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:32,160
» I know that's a mockup, but is the aqu
sign is it going to be painted wood as

623
00:52:31,359 --> 00:52:35,440
well? And
>> it Yeah, be painted wood. I don't know

624
00:52:33,839 --> 00:52:38,480
that a background color is what we
decided.

625
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:44,000
» No, no. I'm not expecting you to adopt
the branding of four brothers. this this

626
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:46,800
branding is unique to our so this is
something that I would like to have is

627
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:54,480
that branding.
>> Um the material had not been decided.

628
00:52:51,839 --> 00:52:58,559
» So there was some way to make them blend
a little bit a little bit.

629
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:02,240
» I don't know. I think without changing
the nature of my branding versus

630
00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:07,200
brother's branding. I'm not I'm not sure
about that. It is a mockup so it looks

631
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:11,680
really bright because it's a it's a
computerized photo. if you would prefer

632
00:53:09,839 --> 00:53:15,280
in order to maybe make a compromise so
that we can have the sign that we're

633
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:20,160
asking for that the white background
perhaps not be so bright.

634
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:26,079
» I think that would be helpful.
>> Okay, that's fair. I mean, if you did it

635
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:30,240
if you if you did it in assuming the
four brothers pizza sign is in wood, it

636
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:34,000
looks like this would and are you
proposing to to have a more

637
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:37,599
maintenance-free material?
>> I would have preferred that. Yeah.

638
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:41,920
» Okay. Because I mean even just how you
frame it like right now it has no

639
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:46,640
framing on it and the cool brothers is
kind of has the molding.

640
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:51,119
» Yes. Make that fit obviously with the
wood. You know it has to you have to

641
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:56,480
construct it so that it fits on those
two wood pillars.

642
00:53:53,920 --> 00:54:02,760
» Mr. Brad that the the
infrastructure of the sign is white. It

643
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,760
doesn't appear white in front.

644
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:08,800
That framing is [laughter]
more

645
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:14,839
realized.
>> Yeah.

646
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,839
» Picture put it in there. Yeah.

647
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:21,440
» Okay.
So, in terms of the application

648
00:54:19,839 --> 00:54:27,119
for
>> uh Yeah, I just had a question on that.

649
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:32,400
So, in the I read the um the zoning
enforcement officer's determination and

650
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:36,240
they uh the determination made it sound
like the square footage sign was like

651
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:41,599
65.97
ft, but in your application you had it

652
00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:45,680
at 132 square ft. So, I guess I just
want Is that like maybe all the signage?

653
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:49,440
» Yeah. Yeah. Total including four
brothers existing. I see. Okay.

654
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:54,240
» So, so the property is a little bit
unique. There are two businesses which

655
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:57,520
the lotteryies slightly differently u
but we wanted to include the total

656
00:54:55,839 --> 00:55:01,119
signage.
>> So what is this? So I know you said 4

657
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:06,440
by8. So what is that 32?
>> It would be 32 per sign. the world was a

658
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,440
gas

659
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:18,920
whether they need
I guess they do need

660
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:25,599
» um
I I can look into that. I'm not it won't

661
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:29,040
affect your application but just so that
we give you the proper variances and

662
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:33,680
what consider
>> yeah I don't agree but

663
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:38,640
But I don't remember.
>> It almost seems Yeah. I mean, I guess I

664
00:55:35,839 --> 00:55:42,800
guess we uh if as you continue
discussions, we can always make sure to

665
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:49,200
kind of explain the differences of not
like this is one 130 square foot sign.

666
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:56,319
» The new um
building that's the tree service and the

667
00:55:52,799 --> 00:55:59,319
final adjustment.
>> Yeah.

668
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:07,200
» Yeah. Actually, I think Mike the
chiropractor

669
00:56:05,599 --> 00:56:11,119
with Mike's tree. They were actually in
front of the pling board maybe last year

670
00:56:09,359 --> 00:56:16,400
or something, but they weren't in front
of the I have to look. I have them on my

671
00:56:14,799 --> 00:56:21,839
» No, they didn't. But they were on the
planning board. I know because they were

672
00:56:18,559 --> 00:56:25,880
um referred to them by an interesting
question. I'll look into them.

673
00:56:29,119 --> 00:56:35,400
I think sizewise um you know these end
up similar to other signs that are

674
00:56:48,319 --> 00:56:54,559
» yeah
we need do

675
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:59,119
other
more detailed drawings or anything

676
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:04,240
» I I know that a lot of times with uh
sign applications, they kind of provide

677
00:57:01,359 --> 00:57:08,400
um an elevation which kind of an
elevation of it just just to kind of

678
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:12,720
show like what the the measurements are.
Um if the board would like that, I think

679
00:57:09,839 --> 00:57:17,520
that might be helpful.
>> And we will do a site visit. Yeah.

680
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:23,520
» Or at least a drive by if you want
something in that space.

681
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:28,079
» Yeah. Uh we usually usually do the site
visit after the public hearing.

682
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:32,799
» Right. There wouldn't be it wouldn't
have to be done immediately if you just

683
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:37,359
down the road.
>> So actually put something this close in

684
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:40,359
the space for the sign to go
>> ideally

685
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:46,520
just
>> yeah.

686
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:54,559
So Car, I believe you had a motion to
accept it with our second.

687
00:57:52,480 --> 00:58:00,720
» I I was just questioning whether we were
good as far as whether I was stepping in

688
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:06,920
it or not. Um, so I'd like to make a
motion to accept the this uh [sighs]

689
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,920
application

690
00:58:07,359 --> 00:58:16,000
as complete
>> subject to the elevation to measurements

691
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:21,520
uh elevation measurements and to the
investigation of whether or not

692
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:27,119
» Yeah, that would be the uh brothers
signage is included in the totals should

693
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:33,799
be included in the totals. Do I second?
All in favor? I

694
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,799
» thank you for your time.

695
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:41,680
» Um, so chair, we can also do seeker for
this. Uh, should be a type two action

696
00:58:39,839 --> 00:58:47,040
under C7.5
C22, which is installation of traffic

697
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:52,400
control devices, which includes signs.
>> Did you want to?

698
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:57,280
» Oh, just to see if they're available or
>> Yeah, they're running out.

699
00:58:55,520 --> 00:59:00,280
We'll track them down. We can double
check

700
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:10,880
for Gretch just to confirm um their
availability of the public or you want

701
00:59:06,799 --> 00:59:16,079
to do a motion for the speaker
>> which goes like [laughter] ask for a

702
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:22,920
motion to classify this as a type two
action under 67.5 C22

703
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,920
» 17.5

704
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,920
» C22
>> C2 it's

705
00:59:29,839 --> 00:59:39,599
Um, I'd like to make a motion to
uh accept this as a type two application

706
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:41,520
for seeker um
under

707
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,520
» 617
>> 617.5C22

708
00:59:46,559 --> 00:59:50,480
also known as 22.
>> Yeah. Do I have a second?

709
00:59:49,839 --> 00:59:55,599
» Second.
>> All in favor?

710
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:59,680
Yes. Thanks.
>> And what's the date of that?

711
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:02,680
» September 16th.
>> Oh,

712
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:08,799
thank you.
>> Okay. So, uh you can make a motion to

713
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:13,359
schedule the public hearing for
September 16th.

714
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:20,880
» Like to make a motion to schedule the
public hearing for case 108, uh for the

715
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:25,200
for September 16th.
Do I have a second? Second.

716
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:30,480
» All in favor?
>> I

717
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:36,960
And then uh we should be referred out to
the Reinbeck Planning Board, the WAC

718
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:39,960
um and also the Duchess County Planning
Board.

719
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:48,799
» They haven't all seen this.
>> Not for this application. Not for this.

720
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:51,839
No, we've had a few applications that
have been on this route. um like fossil

721
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,799
touring.
>> Okay.

722
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:59,440
» Um but uh this particular every
application has to be submitted.

723
01:00:57,839 --> 01:01:06,160
» Okay.
So uh we need a motion to make a

724
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:14,319
referral or I can make a motion to refer
this application to Ryback

725
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:18,480
County Planning Board and WAC
for their

726
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:23,440
comments.
Do I have a second? Second. All in

727
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:28,000
favor? I.
>> And um Gretchen, while you were

728
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:32,079
verifying their availability, we made a
seeker classification as type two and

729
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:37,640
Cara made the motion and Catherine
seconded.

730
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,640
Very

731
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:49,799
person. Oh, anybody want any point
clarif

732
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:17,119
hearings?
>> Uh, yeah. We have, uh, one public

733
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:19,200
hearing. um for right. Oh, no. Public.
Yeah.

734
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:25,119
» Okay. So, yeah, I would open a public
hearing for each individual application.

735
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:31,280
» Um Okay. So, I'd like to make a motion
to open the public hearing for case

736
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:37,119
1104, Gabrielle Tenzer, 3 Buttonwood
Lane. Um is there anybody in the

737
01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:43,200
audience about uh that is here for that
application? Either to tell us more

738
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:45,040
about it or to comment on it. For which
application?

739
01:02:44,319 --> 01:02:50,280
» Tensor.
>> Tensor for Lane.

740
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:50,280
» That's me.

741
01:02:53,520 --> 01:03:00,760
So this is uh my client
and Tom Angel

742
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:12,880
1 foot variance on your dear friend's
ordinance that would allow my client to

743
01:03:09,119 --> 01:03:16,880
uh re landcape for her property and
protect the plannings that she plans to

744
01:03:15,359 --> 01:03:23,599
do there on the front of the planning
board. And um we uh are seeking your

745
01:03:21,359 --> 01:03:32,160
approval for this steer fence. You've
seen some mockups here on the um screen.

746
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:39,440
It's barely visible. It's constructed in
a way that it won't uh really much of an

747
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:46,720
appearance role. There's no plan to put
a gate across the driveway. Plan is to

748
01:03:43,039 --> 01:03:52,160
put a cattle guard type structure there.
uh after our last meeting we moved back

749
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:58,160
fence so we were not requesting a
setback at this point in time so the

750
01:03:54,960 --> 01:04:01,920
site plan was amended to reflect your
comments that you made when I first

751
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:07,599
presented
and uh that's basically

752
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:14,559
our application
>> do can you remind remind us is any of

753
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:20,720
the fencing visible from the road
>> well you can see a mockup But um I mean

754
01:04:19,039 --> 01:04:26,799
I think if you look hard you'll
>> this is the one I think.

755
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:29,680
» Yeah. You can kind of barely see it but
>> not very much.

756
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:30,720
» And that's Buttonwood Lane that's
running.

757
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:31,839
» That is correct.
>> Past that.

758
01:04:31,359 --> 01:04:35,119
» Yes.
>> And not the driveway.

759
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:39,119
» Yes.
>> And I think it could be a little bit

760
01:04:37,039 --> 01:04:43,520
further back. At this point, I think
when we gave you the original photos, we

761
01:04:42,079 --> 01:04:48,039
had a [clears throat]
we were 50 people from

762
01:04:52,960 --> 01:05:00,240
» I think is there anybody here from the
public to comment on this?

763
01:04:58,319 --> 01:05:06,400
» It's your project.
>> No. No. Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, please.

764
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:09,740
Uh, uh, Mr. Angel, if you are
>> I thought it was your client.

765
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:15,799
» No,
[laughter]

766
01:05:11,119 --> 01:05:15,799
» totally confused when she

767
01:05:16,290 --> 01:05:18,310
[laughter]

768
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,839
» was already

769
01:05:31,599 --> 01:05:37,799
did and then we were all Yes.
>> Sorry.

770
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:51,839
» If you could just introduce yourself for
the record, that be great.

771
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:57,839
» Uh my name is Burn Barber. I'm uh
from

772
01:05:54,079 --> 01:06:01,760
Skyler Rakers, 15 Buttonwood Lane.
I'm one of the residents in the

773
01:05:59,359 --> 01:06:06,640
subdivision that this property is part
of.

774
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:13,440
I don't know how familiar you are with
Skyler Acres.

775
01:06:08,799 --> 01:06:22,799
It uh is a 113 acre parcel
bordered on the left side by Miller Road

776
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:31,920
on the north side by the landsman killed
on the east side by 140 acre

777
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:39,480
note but property and on the south side
by the horse horse farm. Okay.

778
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,480
Uh

779
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:51,039
there are 23 lots in the subdivision.
Um

780
01:06:47,039 --> 01:06:58,799
17 are are occupied.
Six of them are undeveloped.

781
01:06:54,319 --> 01:07:08,000
The six are on the north edge that are
are adjacent to the landsman killed when

782
01:07:04,319 --> 01:07:12,960
the subdivision was built. Mr. uh a
gentleman who lived across the creek

783
01:07:10,559 --> 01:07:19,839
bought all six locks that bordered the
landscape land to protect them and keep

784
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:25,200
them natural. They are basically in the
same condition they were 200 years ago

785
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:29,680
that a woods
uh the road that

786
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:33,400
ah you got it there.
>> Thank you.

787
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:33,400
» Okay.

788
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:37,480
I think Mr.

789
01:07:37,599 --> 01:07:40,599
So

790
01:07:41,599 --> 01:07:50,400
this area is the part that I just
mentioned where the gentleman bought the

791
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:56,079
six acres lands McKill runs through
there. This is part of the pond that's

792
01:07:53,440 --> 01:08:03,119
you would see if you drove into the
scholar scatter park.

793
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:09,760
Right. So that's undeveloped.
This is the area we want to talk about.

794
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:18,239
So, but one lane comes in, turns, goes
up a hill, and terminates at a culde-sac

795
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:22,520
at the junction of the horse. This is
all wooded area over here.

796
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:29,520
Um,
essentially

797
01:08:27,199 --> 01:08:37,199
subdivision has been there since the
late 1980s, 37 years.

798
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:44,239
And in that 37 years, there have been 35
different property owners

799
01:08:39,759 --> 01:08:49,120
and not one has ever wanted or installed
deer fence.

800
01:08:46,719 --> 01:08:56,400
And you can say the same thing for the
Nolan subdivision in Rybeck Estates.

801
01:08:53,440 --> 01:09:04,040
They have been there for 40 years and no
one has ever put up deer fence in any of

802
01:09:00,319 --> 01:09:04,040
those three subdivisions.

803
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:15,319
And now we have someone requesting to
encircle their property with a 7 foot

804
01:09:11,679 --> 01:09:15,319
high tear.

805
01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:26,239
I'd like to talk briefly about kind of
natural aspects that are going to be

806
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:32,560
impacted by this. The normal flow of
animal life in here starts over here in

807
01:09:29,440 --> 01:09:36,159
what used to be a sands property.
Remember the sands of the house that

808
01:09:34,480 --> 01:09:43,120
burned down here as it was a colonial
house. And they move across the road

809
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:50,080
into this area that's undeveloped.
And then they move across the road into

810
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:56,080
guess what? This property, right? And
then they move back into here.

811
01:09:53,759 --> 01:10:02,400
All these houses, if you start here and
go around, they're all about 3 acres.

812
01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:07,040
And the houses are generally closer to
the road. So the back ends of them are

813
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:14,560
all natural.
So this area here is about 45 acres.

814
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:24,159
If you take the natural part where the
houses are, that's about 25 acres.

815
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:34,199
So that 25 acres is all natural.
It's woods, ponds, water, swamp, etc.

816
01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:34,199
It has been for 37 years.

817
01:10:34,239 --> 01:10:43,040
If this lot is allowed to be encircled
with a 7ft fence,

818
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:48,239
there will no longer be an avenue of
movement for the animals into and out of

819
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:52,880
the subdivision
from the north.

820
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:58,159
So, it effectively blocked any movement
of animals. This property here already

821
01:10:55,040 --> 01:11:02,800
has fence on it. We had no opportunity
to object to that.

822
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:07,520
Right?
So

823
01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:15,440
if you follow this line, this expedite
property is the primary path for animals

824
01:11:11,199 --> 01:11:20,480
moving into and out of the subdivision.
I'll give you an example.

825
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:26,640
Coming out there Tuesday,
I had to stop at the road right here.

826
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:32,640
There was a snapping turtle in the
middle of the road.

827
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:40,000
It was moving from the pond down here
across the road to the ponds back here.

828
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:47,120
They do it every year. Every summer we
have to avoid the snapping turtles

829
01:11:43,679 --> 01:11:53,679
migrating from the ponds into there.
If that fence is put up there, they will

830
01:11:50,480 --> 01:12:01,199
no longer be able to do that. A deer
fence 7 foot high will block the access

831
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:04,920
for every animal, every 4 footed animal
larger than a

832
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:13,440
excuse me, larger than a squirrel,
right?

833
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:18,920
They will not be able to move through
that property. It'll be blocked by that

834
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:18,920
fence.

835
01:12:19,679 --> 01:12:29,760
They move in here. They wander around.
are free to move. This is my pond. I

836
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:37,199
restrict all the movement on my property
in the summer while the geese and the

837
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:42,080
ducks are nesting on the farm and the
birds and other animals are having their

838
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:47,520
babies and they operate it basically as
a nature pursuer.

839
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:52,320
One example, the geese nest on that
pond. When their little ones are born,

840
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:57,040
they move back here and they go through
here the front yard of that truck.

841
01:12:55,199 --> 01:13:04,320
That's grass of the pond and they feed
the babies there. And we all drive in

842
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:09,600
and we stop and watch them, right? Mama
and the five or six babies feeding on

843
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:14,560
graves. If that fence comes in, they can
no longer do that.

844
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:17,880
Right.
Have a question.

845
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:24,239
What other properties along Buttonwood
Road are fenced

846
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:28,239
» on Buttonwood Road?
>> The one to the right, the next one, the

847
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:34,120
next one, the next one. You don't think
animals would

848
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:34,120
» just move to the next property?

849
01:13:34,719 --> 01:13:42,000
» I I mean, I'm just curious
>> because there houses here and that the

850
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:47,040
the topography isn't
isn't conducive to to normal movement

851
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:53,840
like that. very used to moving on flat
surface across.

852
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:59,199
So there's a house right there. There's
another one right there. Another one

853
01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:06,000
right there. So
if they they can come around here, but

854
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:10,960
they normally don't.
They go through here. That's their

855
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:15,199
normal path.
The turtles sometimes come out of here

856
01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:19,719
and go a little off there. But they come
across here and here and here.

857
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:29,040
This is the primary path for the moment
from here in here. They don't normally

858
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:33,600
come over here and go in. None of the
deer typically come over here because

859
01:14:31,736 --> 01:14:37,040
[clears throat] of this area is mostly a
swamp.

860
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:41,280
Okay?
So they're inhibited from movement in

861
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:47,840
here.
So they move from there easily into here

862
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:51,640
through my property up here and over in
the in the form.

863
01:14:53,280 --> 01:15:01,440
May I ask actually uh what is the I know
that one of the primary objectives of

864
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:07,760
the applicant [snorts] is to restore is
to get rid of the invasive species on

865
01:15:04,239 --> 01:15:15,280
the property and I was curious what the
state of invasives is on the other open

866
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:17,679
» what form of an invasive species plants.
>> The plants mostly

867
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:23,600
» plants
>> the plants all the you know we I live in

868
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:28,080
a similar area we've got uh
How is the 74 to remove invasive

869
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:32,400
species?
>> Well, I think I think they're doing the

870
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:36,960
work on their property and the they're
and doing landscaping and restoring the

871
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:42,480
wetlands and the deer fence is to
prevent the deer from eating the

872
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:47,440
landscape that they're putting in
>> because because that we're building to

873
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:54,719
water.
the the the the

874
01:15:50,320 --> 01:16:00,640
native plants are thought to attract
native animals and so they could

875
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:07,360
actually be making it better for birds
and butterflies and things like that by

876
01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:10,239
getting rid of invasive.
>> Anyway,

877
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:15,440
» one of the complaints typically with
deer is they're eating my shrubbery,

878
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:21,360
right? and I want to get rid of them
because they eat much shorter.

879
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:27,840
We have all figured out that problem 37
years ago. You don't plant what the deer

880
01:16:24,719 --> 01:16:31,760
like to eat. You plant what they don't
like to eat and then they will pass

881
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:37,040
through your property and not cause any
problem and go on their way. [cough]

882
01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:43,760
We all do that. But they come through my
front yard, my side yard, the backyard,

883
01:16:40,239 --> 01:16:49,920
in fact my meadow.
So

884
01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:54,400
the planting is a way of
stopping the damage,

885
01:16:52,239 --> 01:16:58,239
» but you don't want to stop them moving
through.

886
01:16:56,000 --> 01:17:03,679
It's their normal life cycle. It's where
they live. They've lived there. People

887
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:10,080
don't generally think about it, but the
animals have been there since the last

888
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:14,880
ice age. We're the invaders,
and we're going to be there a little

889
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:19,760
while. We don't really own the land. We
pay to use it. When you're done, someone

890
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:23,239
else pays to use it and the animals will
live there forever.

891
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:29,920
My opinion, it's our job to protect
them.

892
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:34,640
» Okay. And I I don't mean to cut you off,
but I I do typically we do have sort of

893
01:17:32,719 --> 01:17:36,880
a three to five minute limit.
>> All right. I'm sorry, but I knew it was

894
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:41,920
going to be
>> It's very It's very uh

895
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:48,239
» There is one point. If you see this
property line and this one here, that's

896
01:17:45,199 --> 01:17:54,440
mine. If that fence is built, you're
[clears throat] f and essentially

897
01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:54,440
fencing my property.

898
01:17:55,360 --> 01:18:04,640
Now, that that little dog leg you see
there, I initially owned all of this and

899
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:10,320
I subdivided and sold these off. And to
get that 3 acres, they put this little

900
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:15,280
dog leg in there. Okay. Well, that's a
little flat area that's about 100 ft

901
01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:19,840
wide.
So, putting a fence here when all of the

902
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:27,239
movement is through there, it's going to
block it coming into my property.

903
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:27,239
And I object

904
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:42,000
my house sits right there. Right.
Just a little side note, uh, deer,

905
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:47,840
whether you like them or not, although
they don't eat anything in my property,

906
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:52,719
I have one that I left there
specifically for the deer. It is a

907
01:18:51,199 --> 01:18:57,920
miniature
peach tree that does not grow peaches

908
01:18:55,040 --> 01:19:01,560
the size big enough for people to eat,
but they're big enough.

909
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:08,320
They come in when they're ripe, they
stand on their hind legs and pick them

910
01:19:06,159 --> 01:19:14,000
off and eat them and then spit the seeds
out and they'll go up and get another

911
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:21,679
one and do that. And I sit in my office
30 ft away and watch them do that.

912
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:27,280
And I can look out my kitchen window and
watch deer feeding their young on the

913
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:33,280
lower edge.
afternoon fox ran up through the wood

914
01:19:30,239 --> 01:19:37,840
road. I get to see all of those animals.
They're free to roam on my property and

915
01:19:35,440 --> 01:19:42,880
I want that to continue. And if there is
a fence put there, that's going to block

916
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:47,760
that. And I do not want that to happen.
I've worked for 37 years to make sure

917
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:52,159
the animals are free to move in and out
of there on the structure.

918
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:57,840
And basically, you put the fence there,
you're fencing my property.

919
01:19:55,199 --> 01:19:59,440
» Thank you. I don't want that to happen.
>> Understood.

920
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:04,000
» Right.
>> Thank you very much.

921
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:08,800
» Appreciate the time. One more comment.
I'm not sure why the objection, and I'm

922
01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:14,880
assuming this is a lady that owns a
property. I've never met her.

923
01:20:11,199 --> 01:20:19,600
But if the issue is a deer eating
shrimp,

924
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:26,880
I hereby volunteer
to purchase deer resistant plants to

925
01:20:24,239 --> 01:20:32,440
replace the ones they're eating on our
property.

926
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:32,440
Sam's defense.

927
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:40,080
» Thank you for your time.
>> Thank you very much.

928
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:51,520
So that
>> Well, is there anybody else speaking?

929
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:56,719
» I don't think so. Is there anybody else?
>> No. So, do we need to discuss?

930
01:20:54,880 --> 01:21:01,600
» Uh, if you believe you have all the
information, you can close the public

931
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:05,120
hearing or continue it if you have
information.

932
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:10,080
» If you would like
from a third party,

933
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:13,080
» like what? life
input.

934
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:18,719
» I don't just putting that out there. Do
you guys feel like you have enough

935
01:21:17,199 --> 01:21:23,520
information to
>> I have a couple of questions for Kim?

936
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:28,000
» Okay.
>> What's the rule on fencing in this area

937
01:21:26,159 --> 01:21:35,040
here or otherwise?
>> The like the property on the left that

938
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:40,320
he said put fencing up. Is it height?
>> Typically it's height. It's it's most

939
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:47,360
likely height. Uh you the the height
limit. So there's there's two kind of

940
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:54,480
main features for uh fencing. Um one is
that if it's let's see if it's within

941
01:21:52,159 --> 01:22:00,000
the rear or sideyard setback, the height
limit is 6 ft. If it's if it's within 50

942
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:05,001
ft of the front lot line, it's a height
limit of 4T. So in this case, the

943
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:09,280
application is doing a a seven foot
[laughter] high fence, but there was a

944
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:14,960
setback. And so um although Mr. Angel,
which one did one of your um did you

945
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:21,360
remove one of the variances?
>> We did. So we moved back the from 50 ft.

946
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:28,320
And I think if you put up the site plan,
you'll see that the deer fence isn't

947
01:22:25,440 --> 01:22:31,280
» the same as the parcel. It's it's
>> it's not the same.

948
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:35,360
» Same. No, it's
parts and lines.

949
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:40,320
» I I don't seem to have that. That's why
I was telling you they did see a site

950
01:22:36,719 --> 01:22:45,280
plan. That's an excellent
>> way. Just are there any subdivision

951
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:50,480
restrictions on fencing?
>> I don't believe subdivision there is.

952
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:54,320
But you can get
the gentleman pointed out the neighbor

953
01:22:52,480 --> 01:22:59,120
has a fence.
Um,

954
01:22:55,600 --> 01:23:03,560
» I don't seem to have a site to
see I can see it's in the application

955
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:15,480
and the gears forcibly have to go all
the way to the ground. I it's doesn't

956
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:15,480
need to go all the way

957
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:19,639
have true access.

958
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:35,639
» Just trying to see if I have a Oh, this
might be it. There we go.

959
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:54,443
So the deer fence you can see is the one
here [clears throat]

960
01:23:55,440 --> 01:24:01,440
» I think this is it right?
>> Yes. And the property line

961
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:04,480
» property line is the dash.
>> Yes.

962
01:24:03,440 --> 01:24:09,360
See if I can.
>> So there's quite a there's you could

963
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:15,000
call it a wildlife quarter.
>> So on the right hand side here's the

964
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:15,000
property line

965
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:22,360
and the top side is on buttonwood. This
is buttonwood and then the deer fence,

966
01:24:22,639 --> 01:24:27,760
» but it actually starts back further than
that now.

967
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:31,040
» Right. It goes back.
>> Okay. So you don't need the front yard

968
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:34,560
the four foot limit,
>> right?

969
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:34,560
» Gotcha. Thank you.

970
01:24:35,440 --> 01:24:41,520
Okay.
>> Um the other requirement for fences is

971
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:47,440
that if they're um solid fences or like
stockage fences like that that allow

972
01:24:44,239 --> 01:24:53,600
path of the you need special but it's
mainly the height limitation.

973
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:59,679
» So I'm sorry I'm not as good at reading
these maps as I would like to be. Does

974
01:24:56,639 --> 01:25:02,480
this elevation go up significantly?
>> It actually goes down there. It actually

975
01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:09,520
goes down.
>> Yes, that's actually um

976
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:15,679
it's a low area. If the turtles were
going to cross, that's where they would

977
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:18,159
go. It's it's wet wet.
>> So,

978
01:25:16,159 --> 01:25:22,000
» they wouldn't tend to want to go up the
hill and then go down the hill.

979
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:25,120
» So, we'll do a site visit.
>> Yes, I was just thinking that. And it

980
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:30,960
would be, I [clears throat] think,
really important as a site visit to, I

981
01:25:28,639 --> 01:25:35,040
mean, if at all possible, to flag where
this fence would go so that you could

982
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:39,440
walk
that area

983
01:25:37,440 --> 01:25:47,199
and particularly with particular
interest in this area right here.

984
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:55,280
» So, that's wooded area down there. Um,
so you have a difficult time walking

985
01:25:50,960 --> 01:26:01,199
down there. Um, but see it.
>> Is there any way to put Is there any way

986
01:25:57,679 --> 01:26:06,639
to put anything on the
visible on the far side of the pro the

987
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:10,800
on the property line so that if you were
standing on the ridge where the fence is

988
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:15,199
actually going to go, we have an actual
sense of where the property ends because

989
01:26:13,440 --> 01:26:18,960
sometimes it's hard to
>> So you want the property boundary. I

990
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:22,800
don't think you're going to be able
>> to see it. [clears throat]

991
01:26:20,480 --> 01:26:27,520
» It's quite dense. You're looking from
the clear area down. I think if you look

992
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:34,960
at some of the photos, you'll get a
sense of um the street.

993
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:41,360
» Well, let's get the
>> So, this is this is the side of the

994
01:26:37,679 --> 01:26:46,320
property where the existing fence exists
on the neighbor's property.

995
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:51,280
» Okay.
And you got to got to keep going.

996
01:26:49,440 --> 01:26:56,320
» Did your fence run right along the side
there fence?

997
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:59,679
» So there you get a sense of the of the
wooded area that's not cleared.

998
01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:05,650
» Uhhuh.
>> So the fence would basically run along

999
01:27:02,719 --> 01:27:08,000
the you can see.
[cough and clears throat]

1000
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:12,400
» Yeah. Here's here's the current
conditions. And then

1001
01:27:10,239 --> 01:27:15,920
» and there's like 100 ft behind that to
the property line. Correct. That's the

1002
01:27:14,639 --> 01:27:18,960
corridor you're talking about.
>> Yes.

1003
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:22,639
» Okay.
>> I don't think you'll really I mean

1004
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:29,600
you're welcome to come to for a site
visit but I don't think you'll see

1005
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:34,800
» I mean the what we usually ask for in a
site visit particularly in a situation

1006
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:38,960
like this and unfortunately it might be
a little bit difficult to do but is to

1007
01:27:36,719 --> 01:27:42,639
have things stake out. I mean, if you
want it

1008
01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:48,639
» so that we can see, get an idea of where
is that corridor, where's that property

1009
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:53,040
line over there, and where is the fence?
>> I don't think you'll we can stake out

1010
01:27:50,239 --> 01:27:55,120
the fence. I don't I mean, we if you
want us to stake out the property

1011
01:27:54,120 --> 01:28:01,199
[clears throat] line, you can do that,
too. I don't think you'll be able to

1012
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:06,080
see it.
>> I think

1013
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:08,800
because it's imponderable woods. Well,
it's

1014
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:13,199
» pretty hard.
>> So, nobody nobody

1015
01:28:12,461 --> 01:28:18,320
[laughter]
>> I can I can add that the planning board

1016
01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:24,000
I was part of the site visit from the
planning board to this property. You It

1017
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:28,719
is so wooded in the back. He can stake
it out, but you won't see. You just

1018
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:31,440
won't see it. It's very, very wooded.
And okay,

1019
01:28:29,440 --> 01:28:35,760
» the area that he's talking about, which
would be on the right on the map,

1020
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:40,000
» Yeah. You know, there's a there's a
corridor right through there.

1021
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:41,280
» You could mark out where the fence is
going to be.

1022
01:28:40,480 --> 01:28:45,440
» We can do that
>> and we can kind of

1023
01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:50,239
» I I can confirm what he's saying about,
you know, how wooded that back area is,

1024
01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:54,239
how densely wood it is, and we just
won't be able to see.

1025
01:28:51,440 --> 01:29:02,320
» And then on the next property over,
>> is it wooded all the way up? So, the

1026
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:04,400
if you're looking at the parcel access
map here,

1027
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:12,960
» yeah,
>> to the right there, there's you can kind

1028
01:29:08,480 --> 01:29:17,920
of dig out a little bit of a creek
bottom there.

1029
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:21,760
» No, over to the left
>> here.

1030
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:27,440
Oh, I see.
>> Yeah. And so it you can look over and

1031
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:32,560
see the neighbor's property, but it's
just because the contour of the land.

1032
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:39,120
It's high, it goes low, and then it goes
up high. So you can see the high part,

1033
01:29:35,679 --> 01:29:42,120
but you can't really see the low part.
>> Okay.

1034
01:29:42,239 --> 01:29:48,639
» No, there's no room between the fences,
between the client's property and the

1035
01:29:46,719 --> 01:29:53,040
neighbor's fence.
it it's basically um

1036
01:29:52,239 --> 01:29:54,800
» well there's
>> the lines

1037
01:29:54,400 --> 01:30:00,480
» right
>> the lines would be similar um there I

1038
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:05,040
mean their fence is on their property
and my proposal

1039
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:09,199
» just just from the board's uh you know
reminder you know so what's being said

1040
01:30:06,480 --> 01:30:13,840
here is a is a foot variance from the
sixt height to the 7 foot and so when

1041
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:18,480
you are doing and doing your site visit
you know you make sure to kind of stick

1042
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:23,600
within the five factors
um you know including you know detriment

1043
01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:27,600
to the character of the neighborhood
substantiality

1044
01:30:25,120 --> 01:30:32,560
impact to the physical nature of stuff.
>> So let me let me ask them questions. I

1045
01:30:30,239 --> 01:30:36,880
think I know the answer but if they
wanted to do a sixoot fence all the way

1046
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:41,199
around the property they're back from
the setback they could do that.

1047
01:30:38,719 --> 01:30:45,840
» Yes. with the exception that I think
it's usually,

1048
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:49,840
» you know, a deer fence is usually to
deter the deer from crossing. It has to

1049
01:30:48,159 --> 01:30:53,360
be a certain height to prevent them from
take over. But yes, if they had a six,

1050
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:56,480
they would not get married.
>> If they wanted wanted to do a six foot.

1051
01:30:56,080 --> 01:31:00,960
» Yes.
>> And hopeers

1052
01:30:59,488 --> 01:31:05,199
[laughter]
were not other people would have been

1053
01:31:02,639 --> 01:31:12,800
before you for
>> Yeah, understood. Okay. And I mean just

1054
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:17,280
imagine neighbors coming
>> but you know the deer are also pretty

1055
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:20,880
resilient that they will find a way.
>> I do think animals are

1056
01:31:20,320 --> 01:31:23,120
» okay.
>> Okay.

1057
01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:27,440
» Okay. I think I know what I need to
know. I think

1058
01:31:26,480 --> 01:31:33,000
» yes.
>> They can do something right. So I mean

1059
01:31:29,120 --> 01:31:33,000
they they want seven

1060
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:38,960
that guy can't stop them from doing
something some kind of

1061
01:31:36,719 --> 01:31:45,600
» Yeah, it could be a six foot. Yeah.
>> Or if it's even uh outside of the

1062
01:31:42,480 --> 01:31:49,199
setback, they could have the seven. I
don't know how close it is to to the

1063
01:31:47,440 --> 01:31:54,239
side.
And I think there are turtle crossing

1064
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:59,760
solutions out there from the various
things that I've attended that that we

1065
01:31:57,120 --> 01:32:03,120
can accommodate.
But, you know, we like find a way

1066
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:08,639
because it is it is important, but I do
think

1067
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:12,880
um so with that, I'd like to make a
motion that we close the public hearing

1068
01:32:11,120 --> 01:32:16,639
on
um

1069
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:21,440
uh 114
on three Buttonwood Lane and uh schedule

1070
01:32:20,239 --> 01:32:24,400
a site visit.
>> Well, uh yeah, let's do one motion at a

1071
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:27,400
time.
>> Sorry.

1072
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:34,000
I second.
>> Oh, any do I do I have a second?

1073
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:38,159
» I do. I
>> All in favor?

1074
01:32:35,199 --> 01:32:40,880
» I
said

1075
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:44,000
» and then
>> and then I'd like to

1076
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:47,520
» Yeah. Well, we don't need a motion.
>> We don't need a motion for visit, but

1077
01:32:45,440 --> 01:32:50,719
you guys usually do discuss it uh where
you would when would usually do it the

1078
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:55,840
Saturday before the
>> Absolutely. September 12th.

1079
01:32:52,480 --> 01:32:59,520
» September 12th. If that if that works
for you

1080
01:32:57,440 --> 01:33:05,239
for your client and if you think you can
get that

1081
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:05,239
» sure um

1082
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:14,239
that available
>> I don't know that I'll be there but uh

1083
01:33:12,719 --> 01:33:20,440
someone else
>> okay

1084
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:20,440
we'll make arrangements

1085
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:26,320
» great thank you very much
>> thank you.

1086
01:33:24,480 --> 01:33:30,880
» Yeah, we usually try to do them in the
morning. Um,

1087
01:33:29,120 --> 01:33:37,679
so
>> I think I think I think they're going to

1088
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:41,000
try to accommodate 10.
>> Thank you very

1089
01:33:44,719 --> 01:33:50,800
on the side that faces this.
>> Well, the one on the west already has a

1090
01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:58,560
fence on it,
>> right? So I don't think we

1091
01:33:56,400 --> 01:34:01,800
is this the one line that you want to
take down.

1092
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:08,320
» Yes.
>> Um and then if it is it easy to

1093
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:12,159
understand where the back property line
is.

1094
01:34:08,639 --> 01:34:14,239
» It's basically the cleared area is where
the fence is going.

1095
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:17,120
» Okay.
>> Maybe just putting like one stake at the

1096
01:34:15,920 --> 01:34:20,239
corner might be helpful.
>> Yeah.

1097
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:22,719
» It's it's a threeacre property, right?
Correct.

1098
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:29,199
» But if you can see from the property
line,

1099
01:34:24,239 --> 01:34:35,440
it's bigger than the f that's
>> Yes. But if you state the corners of

1100
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:39,760
where the fencing goes maybe corners,
>> if you if you could Yes, please.

1101
01:34:37,199 --> 01:34:42,480
» Okay. All right.
>> Because the property line comes down

1102
01:34:41,360 --> 01:34:46,480
below, right? It
>> does.

1103
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:49,840
» Yeah. So to understand where this is
this this side will see the other

1104
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:53,120
neighbor's fence,
>> right?

1105
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:55,600
» So it's primarily on this side and back
there.

1106
01:34:53,440 --> 01:34:58,719
» Yep.
>> But just the distance from the other

1107
01:34:57,120 --> 01:35:03,679
neighbor's fence. That's the other thing
I'm curious about because if you're if

1108
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:08,960
you're not in your setback, that means
you've got what 50 ft from the property

1109
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:12,320
line.
>> I think you were planning on the left

1110
01:35:10,639 --> 01:35:18,960
side.
Have you changed the fence on the wooden

1111
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:24,800
front setback?
So everything else that's

1112
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:29,040
» this is not 50.
>> This is where the this is where the main

1113
01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:32,800
setback comes from. So really not even
the back honestly because the back is

1114
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:37,480
more than 50 ft. It's really this is
clear focus for the variance.

1115
01:35:38,159 --> 01:35:44,080
So again that yeah
>> I just think you know you've heard that

1116
01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:47,840
the concerns were raised by by the by
the neighbor. So I think anything that

1117
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:53,360
you think will reasonably help us be
comfortable that the animals will be

1118
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:58,400
able to circulate
and that it's you know valid.

1119
01:35:55,679 --> 01:36:00,560
» So we'll we'll take the corners for you.
>> Okay.

1120
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:02,800
» Okay.
>> Very good.

1121
01:36:01,360 --> 01:36:06,120
» Thank you very much. Thank you.
>> Have a good evening.

1122
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:15,040
Um so here before we move on um just a
quick so the planning board uh responded

1123
01:36:13,440 --> 01:36:20,800
and found no significant planning or
environmental um concerns.

1124
01:36:18,159 --> 01:36:25,840
Um so I know that you will be looking at
this on a site visit but do you have

1125
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:29,679
some initial discussions or um
deliberations that you have for this so

1126
01:36:27,679 --> 01:36:33,560
I can start working on a resolution
subject to your site visit?

1127
01:36:40,239 --> 01:36:44,280
I think I I mean I

1128
01:36:47,951 --> 01:36:53,360
[laughter]
>> I think that I think that uh you know I

1129
01:36:51,840 --> 01:37:02,239
take the neighbors concern very
seriously but I I and and uh but if

1130
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:02,239
there is enough room for animal movement

1131
01:37:02,719 --> 01:37:05,719
Um

1132
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:09,000
I

1133
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:19,920
think
I don't have any additional

1134
01:37:16,159 --> 01:37:24,320
» are you points to make I think so the
reasons why we would think it was okay

1135
01:37:23,040 --> 01:37:28,320
for [clears throat] them to have the
resolution should be

1136
01:37:27,119 --> 01:37:32,239
why
>> so so your main your main question in

1137
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:37,600
considering in granting or denying an
area variance is first of all an overall

1138
01:37:34,480 --> 01:37:42,880
balance between if the area is v is if
the area variance is granted what the

1139
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:47,840
benefit to the applicant is versus the
detriment to the neighborhood.

1140
01:37:44,719 --> 01:37:53,280
» Yeah. And then with that you look at the
five factors of course is there you know

1141
01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:57,440
an undesirable change in the
neighborhood. Is there an alternative

1142
01:37:55,920 --> 01:38:02,960
that the applicant could do that's
feasible that doesn't require a um area

1143
01:38:00,719 --> 01:38:08,320
variance substantiality
physical impact of the environment of

1144
01:38:04,719 --> 01:38:12,320
the district and self-cre absolutely
that I I don't think we can do any of

1145
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:18,880
that till we've seen the property.
>> Okay. Because

1146
01:38:14,480 --> 01:38:22,000
So, so would you suggest then that you
do the site visit and then do

1147
01:38:20,159 --> 01:38:26,360
deliberations at the September meeting
and not have a resolution prepared?

1148
01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:33,480
» So, I just need direction as to if you
want to be granting it or not

1149
01:38:34,719 --> 01:38:41,760
» and I do want to just
>> that is a a point. I'm not sure exactly

1150
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:46,639
how far it is, but again, the variance
is because of

1151
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:50,880
the side setback. So, it's kind of this
I know you were kind of talking about

1152
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:56,080
the rear and this side,
>> but um those are actually within the

1153
01:38:53,679 --> 01:39:00,560
setback. So, they could build
>> they they it's really it's just the

1154
01:38:58,480 --> 01:39:03,280
side. It's really just it was this
because it's right on the property line

1155
01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:07,440
and then it was initially up here
because

1156
01:39:04,639 --> 01:39:11,199
» so
>> yeah because it's again the way that the

1157
01:39:09,440 --> 01:39:15,760
code is written is not just that you
can't have a fence that's six foot high

1158
01:39:13,679 --> 01:39:21,280
it's um
>> you can't have it within the setback.

1159
01:39:17,440 --> 01:39:24,960
» Yeah it's uh so
move the fence into the setback. Well,

1160
01:39:23,679 --> 01:39:28,480
yeah. Well, the question is that I think
if they want to protect their plants and

1161
01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:33,600
landscaping, they have the landscaping
right up here. I think that if they put

1162
01:39:30,560 --> 01:39:37,600
the fence outside of that, then they're
not deterring the deer if that is what

1163
01:39:35,920 --> 01:39:42,080
they're trying to do.
>> And there's already a fence there,

1164
01:39:40,480 --> 01:39:50,440
you're saying. So,
>> I I don't know what the where the

1165
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:50,440
neighbor's fence is, right? I think

1166
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:59,520
» Okay. Well, like I said, listen, we have
we have 60 days from the close of the

1167
01:39:55,679 --> 01:40:02,960
public hearing to issue um this uh and
if you then if you feel like you need to

1168
01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:06,880
do the site visit to have a better
understanding, then we can have the

1169
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:10,239
deliberations um at the September
meeting and then I can prep with your

1170
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:14,480
directions, I can prepare the resolution
for October or we can deliberate.

1171
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:18,800
» Sorry.
Mind you too when you deliberate and I

1172
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:23,040
and I draft a resolution it is a draft
resolution of course and and I can

1173
01:40:20,880 --> 01:40:25,920
always draft it in a particular way and
then if you you do the site vis and you

1174
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:29,840
say
>> let's go the other way we can do that

1175
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:34,880
too
>> we do two versions

1176
01:40:32,639 --> 01:40:40,480
» he just makes good change
>> I mean I guess if if you I can certainly

1177
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:45,360
draft two resolutions but I would need
directions from you as to pro or against

1178
01:40:43,280 --> 01:40:47,520
so that I'd know how to draft it for
you.

1179
01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:52,480
» Yeah.
Okay.

1180
01:40:49,119 --> 01:40:59,199
I I mean, my impression for listening to
the neighbor was not a problem,

1181
01:40:56,719 --> 01:41:04,480
you know. I mean,
um, I do think animals are fairly clever

1182
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:09,199
and I think there's been lots of studies
of animal traffic patterns that show,

1183
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:12,560
you know,
when I want to keep them out and I put

1184
01:41:10,880 --> 01:41:19,040
something here, they find another place
to go. So, at the same time,

1185
01:41:16,960 --> 01:41:23,040
I'd like to be sensitive to that and I'd
like to look at the site to see what I

1186
01:41:21,440 --> 01:41:30,239
think.
But yeah, that's that's my initial

1187
01:41:26,480 --> 01:41:36,400
» I think I I'm uh I think the fence is
probably fine um

1188
01:41:33,679 --> 01:41:40,960
for those for those same reasons. I
think if that is a wetlands there to the

1189
01:41:38,480 --> 01:41:46,080
one side, I think if they can uh make
some accommodations for the movement of

1190
01:41:43,440 --> 01:41:51,600
wildlife that does move between the key
areas um

1191
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:57,280
you know that that would that would be
great. But on the whole, it's a private

1192
01:41:54,080 --> 01:42:01,920
property and they should be fence if
they want.

1193
01:41:58,080 --> 01:42:05,600
» No, I mean I I I know firsthand what
having a deer fence does through

1194
01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:09,760
landscaping versus not having a deer
fence. I mean,

1195
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:13,440
» it's a huge difference in what we can
do.

1196
01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:20,800
» I love the neighbor school. I if if they
don't eat it, I grow it.

1197
01:42:16,239 --> 01:42:25,840
» But um so is that helpful, Tim?
>> Yeah. [clears throat] Okay.

1198
01:42:23,119 --> 01:42:32,000
» He's like I mean his land isn't actually
the same too but it's

1199
01:42:29,440 --> 01:42:39,239
» Yes. And it seems that other you know
there's also east west and south

1200
01:42:35,280 --> 01:42:39,239
that there's only one way.

1201
01:42:43,280 --> 01:42:47,080
» Okay. Okay.

1202
01:42:47,679 --> 01:42:51,080
Thank you all.

1203
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:55,639
» Yes, we did.
>> We did. Okay.

1204
01:43:01,280 --> 01:43:09,679
» Um, okay. So, the last uh public hearing
for the evening. Um, I'd like to make a

1205
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:14,199
motion we open the public hearing for
phase 11 book.

1206
01:43:14,239 --> 01:43:18,639
» Sean is at the ready.
>> [laughter]

1207
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:22,400
» approach.
>> I'm just going to hand a petition to

1208
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:26,880
Gretchen that was signed by some
community members. I emailed it earlier

1209
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:30,480
but already
before we um you want to open the public

1210
01:43:29,520 --> 01:43:35,760
» public hearing.
>> I did but I didn't ask for a second.

1211
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:40,239
» It was already
well continue. So you make a motion to

1212
01:43:37,440 --> 01:43:44,360
open it.
>> I'd like to make a motion to continue.

1213
01:43:45,199 --> 01:43:52,719
All in favor? Bye.
>> Okay. Good evening. Uh Sean Kemp on

1214
01:43:50,400 --> 01:43:58,000
behalf of the community at Brookme. Uh
we were here last time for a pretty

1215
01:43:55,440 --> 01:44:03,679
spirited uh public hearing and I was
here in May to outline uh what was at

1216
01:44:01,280 --> 01:44:07,840
issue. This is concerning an appeal from
a notice of violation that was issued by

1217
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:12,639
the zoning enforcement officer in late
March of 2026.

1218
01:44:10,159 --> 01:44:20,639
Um I don't really have anything further
other than uh the petition um to add to

1219
01:44:16,080 --> 01:44:24,800
the record. Um I would ask that um you
know you the board has had an

1220
01:44:22,239 --> 01:44:28,719
opportunity to hear the public speak. I
my personal opinion that there was

1221
01:44:26,159 --> 01:44:34,719
overwhelming support uh in favor of
Brookme and I think that um you know

1222
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:39,280
there are legal limits to what can go on
at that property and your council um

1223
01:44:37,520 --> 01:44:43,360
will obviously advise you about what
those limits are but there's also a

1224
01:44:41,360 --> 01:44:49,440
considerable amount of discretion that
you have in determining what's uh an

1225
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:57,520
accessory or incidental and subordinate
use. um and also a discussion in

1226
01:44:54,400 --> 01:45:01,760
determining how the resolution that was
previously passed by the board should be

1227
01:44:59,360 --> 01:45:06,159
interpreted. And I would just um
respectfully request that this board

1228
01:45:03,679 --> 01:45:11,600
exercise that discretion and grant the
least restrictive uh interpretation uh

1229
01:45:09,280 --> 01:45:16,080
to the community of Brookie. With that
said, I thank you all very much for

1230
01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:20,080
entertaining the application. there's
any further questions, Kim, if you

1231
01:45:18,159 --> 01:45:22,880
happen to have questions while you're
kind of going through things, you know,

1232
01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:26,159
you can always contact me.
>> Thank you.

1233
01:45:23,360 --> 01:45:30,800
» Um, you know, I remain available, but
otherwise, um, from our perspective,

1234
01:45:28,239 --> 01:45:34,320
it's fully submitted.
>> Thank you.

1235
01:45:32,880 --> 01:45:38,280
» Is there anyone else here from the
public who'd like to speak?

1236
01:45:42,480 --> 01:45:48,360
Do you have any questions to Sean for
the applicant?

1237
01:45:54,239 --> 01:46:03,040
» I had actually a question on is your
initial application. So you were talking

1238
01:45:58,960 --> 01:46:07,199
about um how the ZBA has in your um
arguments that they have discretion to

1239
01:46:05,119 --> 01:46:12,239
look back at the previous ZBA decision
from 2025 and you had provided in your

1240
01:46:10,719 --> 01:46:17,600
application
um your thoughts as to how the ZBA could

1241
01:46:15,840 --> 01:46:22,639
interpret accessory structures and the
fundraising. Um would you mind perhaps

1242
01:46:20,960 --> 01:46:28,719
just discussing that with the board what
your opinions is on that? like you said

1243
01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:32,960
like uh you know looking at fundraising
you could look at you know five factors

1244
01:46:31,199 --> 01:46:37,600
or something like that.
>> Uh yeah I mean that

1245
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:40,000
factors off the top of my head. I think
you might have

1246
01:46:38,800 --> 01:46:42,800
» it's right here.
>> I don't know.

1247
01:46:40,719 --> 01:46:47,760
» Well this this was my proposed
interpretation

1248
01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:51,920
um of what what the board could consider
you know because like I said it's not

1249
01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:56,960
like you can just Brook should be able
to do whatever it wants as a property.

1250
01:46:54,560 --> 01:47:01,679
um there are restrictions that are in
place and we're mindful of the fact that

1251
01:46:59,040 --> 01:47:05,920
it is a pre-existing point. there's
further kind of shifting that but

1252
01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:09,040
essentially what I was saying is that
with respect to some of the events that

1253
01:47:07,360 --> 01:47:14,480
were at issue and any other events that
we would like to hold there is that you

1254
01:47:11,440 --> 01:47:21,360
know in order to have there's been some
discussion about Brookme being turned

1255
01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:26,960
into some type of uh profit center right
having the use of the pavilion uh

1256
01:47:24,239 --> 01:47:32,639
translate into some other type of stream
of revenue and Brooklyn's position is no

1257
01:47:30,560 --> 01:47:39,360
I I mean it to a certain extent it is
because it helps fund our programs but

1258
01:47:35,280 --> 01:47:44,159
it's not like some type of um corporate
activity that's going on there. It's not

1259
01:47:41,040 --> 01:47:47,760
a corporate enterprise. So um what I had
had in mind and these were just

1260
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:52,400
suggestions obviously is that one that
the events that um that would be

1261
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:58,320
considered are sponsored controlled were
formally co-sponsored by Brookme or the

1262
01:47:54,560 --> 01:48:03,119
Brookme community foundation and um the
co-sponsorship happens a lot sometimes

1263
01:48:00,320 --> 01:48:08,239
with like a chamber event and a Brookme
event or something to that effect. two

1264
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:13,280
was the primary beneficiary is Brookme,
the Brookme community foundation or

1265
01:48:10,320 --> 01:48:17,119
Brookme's nonprofit senior care adult
resident health and wellness or senior

1266
01:48:15,119 --> 01:48:23,760
community programming. So that kind of
ties the event to what's going you know

1267
01:48:20,480 --> 01:48:27,119
what is being provided by the community.
Third is that the event remains

1268
01:48:25,600 --> 01:48:31,280
incidental and subordinate to the
principal campus use and does not

1269
01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:35,040
materially interfere with resident care,
adult day programming, campus

1270
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:40,960
operations, parking, traffic
circulation, or neighborhood conditions.

1271
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:44,960
Um, again, this is going to to show that
the events are, you know, whether it's

1272
01:48:43,199 --> 01:48:50,239
fundraising or any other event that it's
related to what's going on at on the

1273
01:48:47,679 --> 01:48:55,199
community or on your on the campus and
it's not related to some totally

1274
01:48:52,080 --> 01:49:00,560
unrelated thing like a wedding, right?
Because we kind of went over that uh

1275
01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:07,280
first round of this and it's clear that
that type of uh use is not permitted.

1276
01:49:05,119 --> 01:49:11,119
Uh and then fourth is that the event is
not marketed or operated as a general

1277
01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:15,119
commercial rental of the pavilion.
Again, this speaks to the private

1278
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:21,360
celebrations and weddings. Uh and
outside fundraisers are unrelated public

1279
01:49:18,639 --> 01:49:28,880
entertainment. Okay. So, it's really
making sure that the it's tied to um the

1280
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:33,040
use of the campus which is a senior
living facility. And fifth is that the

1281
01:49:31,360 --> 01:49:38,000
in the event is conducted within
reasonable uh limits as to frequency,

1282
01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:44,000
scale, hours, parking and management
noise. There was some discussion that I

1283
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:49,920
had uh it might have been with um the
zoning enforcement officer

1284
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:55,679
uh I believe believe it was but he
raised the idea of like well Sean what I

1285
01:49:52,239 --> 01:49:59,280
mean if you have a fundraiser every day
like doesn't that start to make it look

1286
01:49:57,440 --> 01:50:03,600
like it's more of a business and I tend
to agree with that you know if it's

1287
01:50:01,520 --> 01:50:09,040
every single day and it's like okay
here's another fundraiser and it starts

1288
01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:14,080
to look and feel more like there's some
type of um business or profit center

1289
01:50:11,760 --> 01:50:18,159
that's going on here. The events that
are being challenged uh by the zoning

1290
01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:25,119
enforcement officer though were all tied
to some type of holiday. We had St.

1291
01:50:22,159 --> 01:50:29,440
Patrick's Day. Um, and then, uh, the
Marty GR Easter Bunny, the breakfast

1292
01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:35,920
with the Easter Bunny, and then of
course we have, um, the craft, uh,

1293
01:50:32,639 --> 01:50:39,760
events that are tied to either like the
winter holiday season, and then they

1294
01:50:37,679 --> 01:50:44,400
usually would have one in spring,
summer, warmer months. Um, but they're

1295
01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:48,560
not something that is like, okay, well,
you're going, it's not a farmers market,

1296
01:50:46,480 --> 01:50:52,000
right? We're not trying to do a craft
fair or a fundraiser every single

1297
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:59,199
weekend.
and we're, you know, just trying to um

1298
01:50:55,920 --> 01:51:03,600
kind of have a improper use of of the
property to have like a commercial

1299
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:08,560
enterprise like I've said in the past.
Um so those were just some some ideas

1300
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:12,639
that I had because um like I said, the
board is in a unique position to

1301
01:51:10,800 --> 01:51:16,960
exercise this discretion and come up
with, you know, some clarity with

1302
01:51:15,040 --> 01:51:20,639
respect to the other resolution. And
it's it happens a lot. you know, things

1303
01:51:18,639 --> 01:51:24,880
are written and you you think that
they're they're clear at the time and

1304
01:51:22,639 --> 01:51:27,920
everybody's in agreement and then an
issue pops up like we're dealing with

1305
01:51:26,480 --> 01:51:33,440
now and all of a sudden it's like, well,
maybe we need to revisit this and make

1306
01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:38,000
it a little bit clearer. Um, so I think
that that's kind of uh one of the main

1307
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:42,400
points about the being able to exercise
the discretion with respect to the

1308
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:46,880
interpretation of the prior resolution,
but then also taking a step back and

1309
01:51:44,400 --> 01:51:50,960
saying, okay, big picture, what are we
did we miss anything the first time

1310
01:51:48,320 --> 01:51:56,159
around? Let's let's try and see if we
can solve this once and for all. And I

1311
01:51:53,199 --> 01:52:02,639
would only note that um the community
foundation, we have made uh some

1312
01:51:58,960 --> 01:52:08,400
progress with approaching the town um
for zoning ordinance. Uh I think um I

1313
01:52:06,239 --> 01:52:13,840
only say that forformational purposes. I
don't say that to um try and unite the

1314
01:52:11,679 --> 01:52:19,520
one the two at all. I think that um
Brookke needs rights to uh use the

1315
01:52:17,040 --> 01:52:23,920
property as a pre-existing
non-conforming use and and have these

1316
01:52:22,000 --> 01:52:29,840
other accessory uses. I think that's
separate and apart from what could be

1317
01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:32,880
done at the zoning level. Um so I would
I think that it's important for the

1318
01:52:31,360 --> 01:52:38,080
board to understand that the issue
before it is not like oh well the

1319
01:52:35,199 --> 01:52:40,800
applicants going to the the town maybe
you know they'll just get a zoning

1320
01:52:39,599 --> 01:52:46,639
amendment or something like that and
that will sol solve the problem. No the

1321
01:52:43,760 --> 01:52:51,280
you know that may or may not occur. I
hope I hope we do are able to get to

1322
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:59,040
that point. But if it doesn't, we are
pre-existing non-conforming use 75 acres

1323
01:52:55,040 --> 01:53:03,520
in RC5 district historically used for
you know what we are today a senior

1324
01:53:01,440 --> 01:53:10,480
living uh facility or senior care
facility. Um and you know we need better

1325
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:14,000
guidance and and I think the town needs
better guidance from an enforcement

1326
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:20,560
perspective as far as what's permitted
and what's not. And I I know it's a it's

1327
01:53:17,280 --> 01:53:26,639
a lot to put on on your plate. Uh you
you're all volunteers. I'm mindful of

1328
01:53:22,320 --> 01:53:32,320
that. Um but I also respect you very
much for taking the time to do the hard

1329
01:53:29,119 --> 01:53:37,280
work and you know with Kim's assistance
to try and formulate, you know, the best

1330
01:53:34,880 --> 01:53:43,040
possible resolution.
Um,

1331
01:53:39,360 --> 01:53:46,239
can I ask some questions about
and I know you want to keep them

1332
01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:52,159
separate, but
>> they're not entirely separate in my

1333
01:53:47,920 --> 01:53:54,639
mind. What you are going to
even gotten far enough that you can say

1334
01:53:54,239 --> 01:53:59,119
that.
>> So, it's in the early stages. The good

1335
01:53:56,560 --> 01:54:01,360
news is, I mean, if you want to go down
that path, I'm more than willing to talk

1336
01:54:00,880 --> 01:54:03,920
about it.
>> Well, I'll tell you why. I mean, go

1337
01:54:03,440 --> 01:54:09,199
ahead.
>> Yeah. No. So, um, for many years now,

1338
01:54:06,480 --> 01:54:16,880
I've, uh, attempted to reach out to the
town in order to discuss this issue

1339
01:54:12,159 --> 01:54:23,119
because there are there's a policy, um,
that we don't want to uh, expand

1340
01:54:20,239 --> 01:54:25,440
pre-existing non-conforming uses, right?
Forget

1341
01:54:24,400 --> 01:54:34,000
» that
>> within within reason, right? So the idea

1342
01:54:28,960 --> 01:54:40,400
is having such a expansive campus um in
the RC5 and and um

1343
01:54:39,544 --> 01:54:45,599
[clears throat]
I want to be careful about how I say

1344
01:54:43,199 --> 01:54:50,960
this. So having such an expansive use in
campus in the RC5 which is clearly

1345
01:54:48,159 --> 01:54:57,679
non-conforming I'm not sure why it
wasn't dealt with at the comprehensive

1346
01:54:53,440 --> 01:55:02,239
plan level uh because it it was a senior
care facility then uh and if you look at

1347
01:55:00,239 --> 01:55:08,880
the the zoning and comprehensive plan
and you look at that gateway uh east as

1348
01:55:05,119 --> 01:55:15,119
you come into the village um there
aren't particular parcels that are like

1349
01:55:11,760 --> 01:55:18,719
you can have a flower shop type thing.
There just happens to be a flower shop

1350
01:55:16,639 --> 01:55:22,639
there, right? So, I think that they were
looking at what was there and they were

1351
01:55:21,040 --> 01:55:26,639
um kind of including that in the
comprehensive plan, which is all fine

1352
01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:31,599
and good, but they didn't think to look
at at Brookme, which is an issue. Um,

1353
01:55:30,320 --> 01:55:36,480
and and that's what we're dealing with
today because this is a [laughter] very

1354
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:42,400
in um I mean, the infrastructure is
incredible uh for the facility. It has

1355
01:55:38,719 --> 01:55:48,480
its own uh sewer treatment plant. um the
water is village where I if I'm not

1356
01:55:44,960 --> 01:55:53,440
mistaken um but you know all the
buildings and things like that this is

1357
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:57,599
like we're not talking about uh a couple
of stick build structures but there

1358
01:55:55,920 --> 01:56:01,920
significant improvements that are there
so anyway I approached the town on a

1359
01:55:59,360 --> 01:56:08,320
couple occasions didn't really uh make a
lot of progress this past December um I

1360
01:56:05,599 --> 01:56:15,280
went appeared before the uh town board
and I requested um the opportunity to

1361
01:56:11,520 --> 01:56:22,320
meet with either the planner or members
of the town board to just have a

1362
01:56:18,800 --> 01:56:26,560
discussion because in my view and I
aside from uh being an attorney that is

1363
01:56:24,639 --> 01:56:30,239
in this area before that in undergrad
I've studied land use policy and things

1364
01:56:28,320 --> 01:56:34,480
of that nature and I've always been of
the opinion that you know good policy is

1365
01:56:32,400 --> 01:56:38,239
not developed in a vacuum good policy is
not developed by one person sitting by

1366
01:56:36,400 --> 01:56:45,760
themselves trying to figure out you know
what I can do I mean the RC5 district is

1367
01:56:42,320 --> 01:56:51,360
probably greater than 70% of all parcels
of land in our town, right? So, you do

1368
01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:56,719
one tweak to that that district, it
could have pretty big consequences. Um,

1369
01:56:54,400 --> 01:57:04,000
so I wanted to engage in that dialogue.
Unfortunately, that didn't really pick

1370
01:56:59,440 --> 01:57:09,520
up steam for whatever reason. Then um I
uh was able to speak with recently I um

1371
01:57:08,239 --> 01:57:15,280
submitted an application for a
pre-application meeting after speaking

1372
01:57:11,599 --> 01:57:18,719
with I think the town attorney um and
there was that his suggestion that we

1373
01:57:16,800 --> 01:57:23,760
could do something like that. So I spoke
with Jim Ley few members of the planning

1374
01:57:21,119 --> 01:57:30,960
board were there. We're just trying to
we're in the early stages. Uh I'm very

1375
01:57:27,920 --> 01:57:36,719
um kind of optimistic because I have
spoken to uh town board member that is

1376
01:57:34,880 --> 01:57:42,000
uh expressed the desire to have that
conversation which I I greatly

1377
01:57:39,199 --> 01:57:46,880
appreciate. Um so that's where we're at,
but it's in the very early stages and

1378
01:57:44,560 --> 01:57:52,320
and even if we were further along that
that's a very long process. It's not

1379
01:57:49,920 --> 01:57:56,000
something that like you just here's the
new ordinance. It's got to be well

1380
01:57:54,639 --> 01:57:59,360
thought out, especially when we're
dealing with so many properties. I mean,

1381
01:57:57,920 --> 01:58:04,880
there's creative ways that we can deal
with it that um you know are not akin to

1382
01:58:02,719 --> 01:58:10,320
any type of spot zoning or things like
that. But it's a discussion that needs

1383
01:58:06,719 --> 01:58:14,960
to be had be had and um you know in the
time being I think it's only fair that

1384
01:58:13,360 --> 01:58:19,679
the community at Brookley is given the
guidance that it needs so that they're

1385
01:58:17,760 --> 01:58:24,400
they don't operate in such a way that
like they're always afraid of you know

1386
01:58:22,080 --> 01:58:29,920
having a a fundraiser for something that
seems like very benign having to call me

1387
01:58:26,960 --> 01:58:34,320
and say oh is this okay and my
interpretation of it is yeah and then if

1388
01:58:32,159 --> 01:58:39,520
there's a different interpretation then
we end up here. Um, so you know, any

1389
01:58:37,679 --> 01:58:44,639
anything that you can do to help provide
that clarity and of course the least

1390
01:58:41,920 --> 01:58:48,560
restrictive um interpretation is what we
would prefer. Uh, but I do understand

1391
01:58:46,880 --> 01:58:52,080
that there's, you know, there has to be
reasonable restrictions on it. And

1392
01:58:50,320 --> 01:58:56,560
that's kind of what I put in in my
submission.

1393
01:58:53,599 --> 01:58:59,920
It was just to try and get get the ball
rolling to think about how we can deal

1394
01:58:58,159 --> 01:59:05,679
with this because it's I mean it's an
asset, you know. Um and

1395
01:59:04,000 --> 01:59:11,119
» I don't have to repeat everything that
we heard the last time we were here, but

1396
01:59:07,920 --> 01:59:17,360
I I really can't um
overstate the importance that um Brookme

1397
01:59:15,280 --> 01:59:24,719
has, not only for the people that it
serves, but for our entire community.

1398
01:59:20,880 --> 01:59:30,800
Um, thank thank you, Sean. Uh, and I'm
I'm glad that in whatever infant stage

1399
01:59:28,719 --> 01:59:37,360
discussions are happening because I
think that is the path to a real

1400
01:59:32,800 --> 01:59:43,040
solution. Um, and I don't Joe, were you
on when we went through this before?

1401
01:59:39,280 --> 01:59:47,119
Carol, I know you were on the
>> I don't think so.

1402
01:59:44,400 --> 01:59:50,480
» I'm already trip.
>> Yeah, he he was on the board.

1403
01:59:50,880 --> 01:59:57,040
No,
Joe, Scott, Richard,

1404
01:59:56,159 --> 02:00:00,480
» and Brian
>> and Brian.

1405
01:59:58,560 --> 02:00:06,960
Oh, yeah.
>> So, because I went back and I read the

1406
02:00:03,119 --> 02:00:11,840
28 page resolution that we wrote before
and [clears throat]

1407
02:00:08,560 --> 02:00:16,880
I actually thought it was pretty clear
and I thought there were some things

1408
02:00:13,599 --> 02:00:22,159
that very specifically said
for you not to have and can help me if

1409
02:00:19,040 --> 02:00:27,520
you if I'm misremembering my own
rereading of this, you know, and one of

1410
02:00:24,880 --> 02:00:34,480
them was craft crafts.
So, and I think what we tried to do

1411
02:00:32,320 --> 02:00:40,400
in that resolution and in that whole
discussion

1412
02:00:36,480 --> 02:00:46,560
um let let me just stop for a second.
The support for group meet as an

1413
02:00:43,760 --> 02:00:53,040
institution, as a community in terms of
the work that you do is crystal clear.

1414
02:00:51,040 --> 02:00:58,800
The fact that it's an asset to the
community as it is regardless of how the

1415
02:00:56,719 --> 02:01:03,760
remediator is used is also crystal
clear. I mean there's a huge service

1416
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:07,520
that's done.
However, some of these things got

1417
02:01:05,520 --> 02:01:13,440
missed.
They did and there's some very specific

1418
02:01:10,480 --> 02:01:19,199
guidance in the zoning law and so we
tried to go back to also what was

1419
02:01:15,920 --> 02:01:26,239
granted by the planning board and adhere
to some very specific activities that

1420
02:01:23,440 --> 02:01:30,960
they mentioned and I just remember Scott
saying

1421
02:01:28,000 --> 02:01:34,560
even though that may have actually been
an error on the part of the planning

1422
02:01:32,639 --> 02:01:38,719
board and everybody forgive me if I'm
getting some of these things wrong they

1423
02:01:36,880 --> 02:01:43,840
and mention those things. They called
them out. They said, "You can do these

1424
02:01:40,480 --> 02:01:47,679
things." And we didn't want to lessen
that.

1425
02:01:45,599 --> 02:01:52,080
So, we tried to stay within that Darl
framework that had already been

1426
02:01:49,040 --> 02:01:57,760
established in 2017.
Um,

1427
02:01:54,960 --> 02:02:01,599
and but I think we were relatively clear
in trying to stay in that framework. Do

1428
02:02:00,400 --> 02:02:08,800
» you agree?
>> Uh, yeah. So with the 20 2025 resolution

1429
02:02:06,320 --> 02:02:15,360
uh from the ZBA, one of the the
questions that was really the the main

1430
02:02:10,800 --> 02:02:19,920
point was trying to just determine what
so in 2017 Brookne came before the

1431
02:02:18,000 --> 02:02:23,760
planning board to get uh the adult day
camp um which is where the pavilion

1432
02:02:22,480 --> 02:02:28,639
erected the pavilion and was going to
have the adult day camp and then the

1433
02:02:26,239 --> 02:02:34,239
2017 planning board application in in
addition to the adult day camp also said

1434
02:02:31,920 --> 02:02:39,199
a brook meat accessory uses and I think
the question and the question that had

1435
02:02:36,800 --> 02:02:43,840
popped up from that was what is we know
what an accessory uses what's a brook

1436
02:02:41,360 --> 02:02:47,760
mate accessory use and that's where we
kind of went through the history of the

1437
02:02:45,840 --> 02:02:53,040
events that took place we also went
through the 2017 planning board review

1438
02:02:50,719 --> 02:03:00,000
process to kind of see what was
represented that was anticipated to be

1439
02:02:55,199 --> 02:03:06,480
there and with the 2025 ZBA decision I
there were essentially three main points

1440
02:03:03,440 --> 02:03:10,800
that it went through. One was discussing
what the brook meet accessory uses that

1441
02:03:09,119 --> 02:03:15,199
were allowable and a lot of it was
talking about how it had to have a nexus

1442
02:03:12,639 --> 02:03:19,199
or connection to the principal use as an
accessory use

1443
02:03:16,400 --> 02:03:24,000
» right back at home. Well, yeah, it was
it was about

1444
02:03:22,080 --> 02:03:28,880
» Yeah, that was even that was actually
even also within the planning board's

1445
02:03:26,880 --> 02:03:34,000
resolution from 2017, but it was more of
like if you were to have uh lectures or

1446
02:03:31,920 --> 02:03:40,800
educational courses that were geared
towards, you know, aging in place or or

1447
02:03:37,840 --> 02:03:46,080
anything to that effect or um I think
there was like veteran celebrations and

1448
02:03:43,040 --> 02:03:50,639
and uh to that something that had that
nexus to having Brookme as the senior

1449
02:03:49,119 --> 02:03:55,840
living facility.
Then there was, as you mentioned,

1450
02:03:52,800 --> 02:04:00,800
Katherine, we looked back at the 2017
application where there were certain um

1451
02:03:59,040 --> 02:04:06,480
organizations that were discussed like
right back at home um voting vote having

1452
02:04:03,920 --> 02:04:11,440
it as a polling place, blood drives, and
we the ZBA had kind of thought that

1453
02:04:09,199 --> 02:04:17,040
those were explicitly stated and even
though they might not have that clear

1454
02:04:13,360 --> 02:04:21,199
nexus to brook me as the principal use,
it was represented and it was known at

1455
02:04:18,800 --> 02:04:25,920
the time. So that was allowed to kind of
continue as a brook meet accessory use

1456
02:04:24,080 --> 02:04:32,639
more so than maybe an accessory use. And
then the third criteria was the

1457
02:04:29,599 --> 02:04:40,159
activities that the board felt had
didn't have that nexus or connection

1458
02:04:35,520 --> 02:04:44,960
which included um the craft fair for
example. I think it included yeah

1459
02:04:42,080 --> 02:04:48,080
weddings um and the weddings also
because we didn't want it as a special

1460
02:04:46,639 --> 02:04:53,599
event pending which is not allowed in
the RC5 district and also in Rybeck

1461
02:04:52,480 --> 02:04:59,520
you're not allowed to have two principal
uses on a singular lot. So that was the

1462
02:04:56,639 --> 02:05:04,960
other issue too. Um so then so that was
kind of how the resolution was drafted.

1463
02:05:02,400 --> 02:05:09,119
It's kind of like explaining what an
accessory use was that was allowed and

1464
02:05:07,119 --> 02:05:15,199
how it could be determined with that
nexus or connection to the principal

1465
02:05:11,440 --> 02:05:21,520
use. Then it was talking about uses that
were considered to be permitted

1466
02:05:19,599 --> 02:05:24,560
because it was represented when they
granted their approvals from the

1467
02:05:22,719 --> 02:05:29,920
planning board in 2017 and then those
uses that were not listed. Uh, I think

1468
02:05:27,760 --> 02:05:37,760
one of the questions that is brought up
by this notice of violation that was

1469
02:05:31,840 --> 02:05:42,000
issued is fundraising. Um, and I if I I
haven't reviewed the minutes from the

1470
02:05:39,360 --> 02:05:45,199
last time this uh application was in
front, but I think one of the concerns

1471
02:05:43,360 --> 02:05:49,040
was,
you know,

1472
02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:51,760
we didn't want it to be, as as Sean had
mentioned, you know, we didn't want it

1473
02:05:50,080 --> 02:05:57,040
to be that, oh, we're going to rent it
out for a birthday party or graduation

1474
02:05:54,159 --> 02:06:03,440
party, but we're collecting funds that
will be used for the Brook Foundation

1475
02:06:00,239 --> 02:06:07,760
because at what point is it a fundraiser
that's connected to the use or when it a

1476
02:06:06,719 --> 02:06:11,440
rental help
>> for lack of a better phrase, but that

1477
02:06:09,360 --> 02:06:13,119
was I think the concern. So, we didn't
address

1478
02:06:12,480 --> 02:06:18,080
» because
>> fundraisers specifically in that, but it

1479
02:06:15,760 --> 02:06:23,040
also wasn't really
a question at that stage and that's what

1480
02:06:20,639 --> 02:06:27,199
the there was violation in this case is
that there were several fundraisers, the

1481
02:06:25,280 --> 02:06:31,119
the takeout dinners for St. Patrick's
Day, Marty Gro, and then the Easter

1482
02:06:29,360 --> 02:06:34,560
Bunny, and then the craft fair, which as
you mentioned was specifically excluded

1483
02:06:33,679 --> 02:06:37,280
from
>> right

1484
02:06:34,960 --> 02:06:45,480
» from the in the 2025,
>> you know, because I mean, so

1485
02:06:40,719 --> 02:06:45,480
and and what I what

1486
02:06:46,480 --> 02:06:52,880
because of the nuances of the zoning law
and [clears throat] obviously all this

1487
02:06:50,639 --> 02:06:57,480
discussion is relatively I think
complicated.

1488
02:06:54,480 --> 02:06:57,480
Um,

1489
02:06:58,392 --> 02:07:05,679
[clears throat]
it's when I read the letters and I

1490
02:07:02,960 --> 02:07:10,079
listen and I speak on behalf of Brook
Media,

1491
02:07:08,079 --> 02:07:16,679
what's desired by the members of the
community who support Brookme is very

1492
02:07:13,679 --> 02:07:16,679
open.

1493
02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:24,400
» It's very It's very
It feels very open to me. Well, I I

1494
02:07:22,560 --> 02:07:30,880
think that what we need to focus on is
what we're requesting in our our letter.

1495
02:07:27,599 --> 02:07:36,480
The the public, many of them are are lay
members of the public. They're out to

1496
02:07:33,280 --> 02:07:41,119
show their support for Brookme that I
can tell you that one of the reason why

1497
02:07:38,639 --> 02:07:44,400
so many people showed up was because the
craft fair was cancelled because they

1498
02:07:43,119 --> 02:07:49,119
couldn't have the breakfast with the
Easter Bunny. So th those are they're

1499
02:07:46,880 --> 02:07:53,840
showing up to say don't issue these
violations. I think that's pretty

1500
02:07:51,199 --> 02:07:57,840
specific, you know, and I think to put
the the burden on the public to show up

1501
02:07:55,679 --> 02:08:02,400
and say, "Well, this is my this should
be my interpretation or this is what the

1502
02:07:59,760 --> 02:08:05,360
board the board should advance is is a
little bit different." You know,

1503
02:08:04,079 --> 02:08:07,360
» I don't think that's what Catherine was
saying.

1504
02:08:05,679 --> 02:08:11,440
» I'm not what that's not what I was
saying at all.

1505
02:08:08,320 --> 02:08:17,520
» So, I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
>> I'm trying to acknowledge the public

1506
02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:21,440
input while also reiterating the narrow
focus that we have to talk about. I

1507
02:08:19,679 --> 02:08:25,679
think what a lot of Katherine please
correct me if I'm wrong but I think your

1508
02:08:23,360 --> 02:08:30,639
cons one of the things that has been
presented by the public is all the use

1509
02:08:28,159 --> 02:08:35,360
and utility that the pavilion can have
which may extend perhaps be you know

1510
02:08:33,199 --> 02:08:40,400
like having it as meeting rooms um you
know for the beekeepers as an example um

1511
02:08:38,239 --> 02:08:45,040
you know or having it as an available
space to be using for the community

1512
02:08:42,719 --> 02:08:48,719
» is that what you're um is that what you
are

1513
02:08:47,840 --> 02:08:54,960
» yeah thank you
>> this desire to have to have. Yes. I

1514
02:08:52,079 --> 02:09:00,000
think that a lot of what what
has been brought up in the course of the

1515
02:08:57,520 --> 02:09:06,159
public hearing is stuff that is outside
the scope of what it is what you are

1516
02:09:02,400 --> 02:09:09,520
here to decide. So, um I don't know if
you wanted I mean which which is really

1517
02:09:07,840 --> 02:09:14,159
hard because it would be really nice to
be able to say

1518
02:09:12,159 --> 02:09:18,320
we do need community space and we do
need this and we do need that. It's go

1519
02:09:16,000 --> 02:09:23,760
on. But I think that that even with an
inter reinterpretation of things is not

1520
02:09:21,760 --> 02:09:29,679
what we
is before us at the moment. Um but I

1521
02:09:28,239 --> 02:09:37,679
think that one of the things that that
that uh sort of intrigues me is this use

1522
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:44,079
of the of the uh nexus requirement. And
I'm wondering if perhaps you have ever

1523
02:09:40,400 --> 02:09:48,320
considered doing a schedule of events
for the course of a year uh that would

1524
02:09:46,800 --> 02:09:56,800
allow you to promote them more
effectively and get more out of them. um

1525
02:09:52,560 --> 02:10:03,280
that could be agreed with the zoning
board that you know the nexus is there

1526
02:09:59,679 --> 02:10:07,840
and that it everybody agrees that it's
it fits in in the requirements and then

1527
02:10:05,679 --> 02:10:13,679
you just go ahead and if you see flyers
around town you know that it's been

1528
02:10:10,239 --> 02:10:18,480
approved. Um do you plan
far enough and ahead ahead for us to

1529
02:10:16,320 --> 02:10:23,040
operate something like that? Yeah, I
mean I don't know if a year uh if they

1530
02:10:20,960 --> 02:10:28,000
go out a year all the time, but yeah,
the these events are not just

1531
02:10:25,199 --> 02:10:34,239
willy-nilly, you know, thrown together.
Um there's a lot of coordination that

1532
02:10:30,639 --> 02:10:40,880
goes into it because it it it serves a
lot of people. Um so it's definitely not

1533
02:10:37,119 --> 02:10:45,440
like, oh, um Labor Day is coming up, so
why don't we see if we can do a Labor

1534
02:10:42,800 --> 02:10:50,560
Day takeout dinner, you know? Um it's
not like that at all. So, I think that

1535
02:10:47,440 --> 02:10:52,800
something along those lines um is
something that we would definitely

1536
02:10:52,000 --> 02:10:57,440
consider.
>> I I think um I just want to just just

1537
02:10:55,760 --> 02:11:03,040
kind of I didn't mean to cut you off
strong, but I know that at the the 2025

1538
02:11:00,800 --> 02:11:09,119
decision uh one of the things the board
had asked for was like that list of what

1539
02:11:05,440 --> 02:11:14,320
events had taken place. Um maybe
something that might be helpful for the

1540
02:11:10,560 --> 02:11:16,000
board um is like a list of what your
your your

1541
02:11:15,520 --> 02:11:19,679
» activities
>> desired activities what your fundraisers

1542
02:11:17,599 --> 02:11:26,400
are and that might also even if it's not
so much a black and white list it's

1543
02:11:22,639 --> 02:11:31,679
perhaps a way to to put like those
>> um I don't want to say boundaries but

1544
02:11:28,719 --> 02:11:37,599
you know those who the board could then
take what that list is of anticipated

1545
02:11:34,480 --> 02:11:43,679
events that would take place decide how
that nexus connection plays for it to be

1546
02:11:40,320 --> 02:11:47,840
an accessory use and then perhaps build
a [clears throat] a foundation around

1547
02:11:45,440 --> 02:11:49,679
that that might be helpful with that
list.

1548
02:11:48,320 --> 02:11:53,760
» I think that that could be a very good
idea.

1549
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:58,560
» I Yeah, I think that I mean even when I
look and I I appreciate that this is a

1550
02:11:56,480 --> 02:12:03,199
proposal. This is like you could look at
it this way. Uh that the event is

1551
02:12:01,280 --> 02:12:10,159
sponsored, controlled or formally
co-sponsored by Brookie. You know, I I

1552
02:12:08,000 --> 02:12:14,719
think the thing that at least I'm afraid
of or you know, you anticipate could go

1553
02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:20,960
that direction is you could be a
co-sponsor of almost any public event,

1554
02:12:18,159 --> 02:12:25,920
you know, and as long as it could be
managed in that facility, it's like, oh,

1555
02:12:23,599 --> 02:12:32,560
good. And maybe that's something that
can come out [snorts] of the discussion

1556
02:12:27,599 --> 02:12:37,840
on the town, but I think, you know,
we view our role at this point is not to

1557
02:12:35,280 --> 02:12:43,599
to effectively
rewrite the zoning so that yes, it's

1558
02:12:40,000 --> 02:12:46,719
okay in RC5 to have a community center
and this other property operating

1559
02:12:45,360 --> 02:12:53,199
because it's not.
>> No. you know, or an event center

1560
02:12:50,719 --> 02:12:59,199
that really functions as an event center
because it's not. So, you know, we're

1561
02:12:55,280 --> 02:13:03,840
trying to find that narrow space.
>> Correct. And and that's why I thank the

1562
02:13:01,520 --> 02:13:10,639
board for it's it's a little bit of a
lift for sure to to dig into that. Um

1563
02:13:07,599 --> 02:13:15,840
but and it's not that we're requesting
to rewrite anything. It's it's about the

1564
02:13:13,040 --> 02:13:20,239
interpretation that exists and for that
interpretation there is a lot of

1565
02:13:18,400 --> 02:13:27,119
discretion that's given to his own board
of appeals and with that interpretation

1566
02:13:23,360 --> 02:13:31,679
there's also guard rails which you know
Kim will be able to advise you about as

1567
02:13:29,360 --> 02:13:38,079
far as like this is too far or whatever
but I think as far as opening up uh

1568
02:13:34,960 --> 02:13:42,079
dialogue or getting more wheels turning
as far with respect to the tighter

1569
02:13:40,159 --> 02:13:45,760
events I think that's a great idea and
that's something that I could provide to

1570
02:13:43,440 --> 02:13:50,320
the board very easily.
>> I mean I I I really think that this

1571
02:13:48,239 --> 02:13:56,960
situation calls for black and white at
least in the first year so that we can

1572
02:13:53,360 --> 02:14:01,360
all get comfortable with with how
everybody's interpreting things and

1573
02:13:59,360 --> 02:14:06,719
things [clears throat] run smoothly. So
I would invite

1574
02:14:03,760 --> 02:14:11,920
um I mean [clears throat] I I I really
think that the 2025 resolution was

1575
02:14:09,360 --> 02:14:17,760
pretty good. So if the problem that we
missed or that we didn't address was

1576
02:14:14,960 --> 02:14:23,520
fundraising,
which has I think been a lot of the

1577
02:14:20,639 --> 02:14:28,719
focus of the discussion, then let's
really define what seems to be from this

1578
02:14:26,960 --> 02:14:33,920
a little bit better.
>> Yeah. I I think that, you know, to me, I

1579
02:14:31,760 --> 02:14:40,639
think every organization that's a
nonprofit has to figure out fundraising.

1580
02:14:36,719 --> 02:14:44,960
I mean, that's, you know, Sure.
>> The the black and white event that you

1581
02:14:42,800 --> 02:14:48,719
have seems like that's totally
controlled by you. That's totally, you

1582
02:14:47,599 --> 02:14:52,079
know,
>> managed by you.

1583
02:14:50,079 --> 02:14:55,880
» Is that
your annual

1584
02:14:56,480 --> 02:15:03,599
any question about that?
>> I believe at the LA because I think your

1585
02:15:00,719 --> 02:15:07,520
gala was coming up at the end of the
2025. I think we had said that that made

1586
02:15:05,840 --> 02:15:12,960
sense to that you know didn't make sense
for you to have the ball [snorts] and

1587
02:15:09,280 --> 02:15:19,360
stuff like that and I think that yeah I
think that there was a little bit I

1588
02:15:15,199 --> 02:15:24,079
think it is overall 2025 is good work uh
it's good work product I think there are

1589
02:15:21,840 --> 02:15:30,719
some inconsistencies
in it um that give rise to some

1590
02:15:28,400 --> 02:15:38,719
debatable topics
um and you know as far as us being able

1591
02:15:34,239 --> 02:15:40,960
boost our dollar there. Yes, we were not
a problem.

1592
02:15:40,079 --> 02:15:44,480
» Um,
>> and then that went on. There was no

1593
02:15:42,800 --> 02:15:47,280
violation for that
>> spectrum, you know.

1594
02:15:45,440 --> 02:15:52,159
» No, I'm sorry.
>> Your gala for this year, there was no

1595
02:15:49,920 --> 02:15:53,599
violation site for that or anything.
>> That's correct.

1596
02:15:52,639 --> 02:15:58,079
» Yeah.
>> Which which the public can attend just

1597
02:15:55,520 --> 02:16:01,679
so that we're clear.
>> Right. And but I mean that kind of event

1598
02:16:00,079 --> 02:16:06,239
to me that's at one end of the
fundraising spectrum where it makes

1599
02:16:04,079 --> 02:16:13,040
perfect sense. It has a total nexus with
your overall operating or supporting the

1600
02:16:09,920 --> 02:16:18,639
program overall. And so there's not a
question about that. But then

1601
02:16:16,400 --> 02:16:24,639
at a craft fair or something like that
where it's like some portion of the

1602
02:16:21,440 --> 02:16:30,960
proceeds benefit the foundation that
feels to me like at the other end there

1603
02:16:26,960 --> 02:16:34,319
could be one a week. I mean
>> well and that's why I said

1604
02:16:32,319 --> 02:16:37,439
» that's you know so that's I think why
we're trying to wrestle with that.

1605
02:16:35,679 --> 02:16:41,280
» Sure. And I that's why I specifically
referenced frequency as something that

1606
02:16:40,080 --> 02:16:48,240
should be controlled. And I think that's
even it's in one of my uh bullet points

1607
02:16:44,719 --> 02:16:53,280
there. Uh number five, you know, there
definitely should be reasonable limits

1608
02:16:51,200 --> 02:17:00,719
on frequency,
time, hours, things of that nature. Um

1609
02:16:57,280 --> 02:17:05,200
for sure. I I I'm not definitely not
coming here asking the board to say,

1610
02:17:03,439 --> 02:17:09,439
"Well, if it's a fundraiser, if you call
it a fundraiser, then you can do it."

1611
02:17:07,359 --> 02:17:15,200
That I'm
I'm not suggesting that in any way.

1612
02:17:12,559 --> 02:17:19,040
» I'm I'm not sure that that the issue is
strictly about fundraising events. I

1613
02:17:17,359 --> 02:17:22,719
think it's events that are open to the
public. Well, I think

1614
02:17:20,479 --> 02:17:28,080
» that's the I'm sorry, but that's that's
why we're here, I think, because the the

1615
02:17:25,599 --> 02:17:30,479
zoning enforcement officer was like,
"This is an event that's open to the

1616
02:17:29,840 --> 02:17:33,679
public,
>> and that's not allowed

1617
02:17:31,359 --> 02:17:38,240
» and that's not allowed." And the
rebuttal is it's a fundraiser. It's

1618
02:17:36,559 --> 02:17:44,080
clearly
uh subordinate and incidental to our

1619
02:17:40,319 --> 02:17:48,639
primary use. So, it it should be allowed
because we know from the last resolution

1620
02:17:46,800 --> 02:17:53,519
that the Chamber of Commerce who's not
even I mean it's a it's an organization

1621
02:17:51,040 --> 02:17:58,160
in town, but they were allowed to have
their um

1622
02:17:54,880 --> 02:18:02,960
» good egg award. Correct. And that's a
fundraiser. So, it would seem odd to me

1623
02:18:00,880 --> 02:18:08,800
that we would elevate somebody that has
no real right property other than, you

1624
02:18:07,040 --> 02:18:12,319
know, the community. We're we're friends
with them and you know we're friends

1625
02:18:10,399 --> 02:18:14,639
with other not for profofits but why
would we

1626
02:18:13,519 --> 02:18:20,080
» why would an outside
>> actually what I just want to just

1627
02:18:16,080 --> 02:18:26,639
explain why so so the 2025 uh
interpretation appeal came because of

1628
02:18:22,000 --> 02:18:29,359
the good egg uh event and that goes to
that second point in that 2025

1629
02:18:28,770 --> 02:18:33,519
[clears throat]
decision was that in the 2017 planning

1630
02:18:31,920 --> 02:18:38,000
board approval the Rinbeck Chamber of
Commerce was specifically listed

1631
02:18:35,280 --> 02:18:41,760
» Sure and that's how it came So it wasn't
that it was just because you know the

1632
02:18:40,080 --> 02:18:45,200
board supported the chamber of commerce
or because it wasn't worth the

1633
02:18:43,920 --> 02:18:50,240
organization. It was because it was
specifically lifted in the 2017

1634
02:18:47,439 --> 02:18:54,800
» correct planning and I'm not saying that
the the chamber was given preferential

1635
02:18:52,559 --> 02:19:01,840
treatment by this board. What I'm saying
is that the CEO's interpretation of that

1636
02:18:58,319 --> 02:19:06,479
resolution to say that we can't have our
own fundraising when other organizations

1637
02:19:04,800 --> 02:19:10,559
were identified as being able to have
fundraising on our campus just doesn't

1638
02:19:08,719 --> 02:19:15,519
make sense. How do you reconcile that?
How can you say that, oh, you're a not

1639
02:19:12,800 --> 02:19:19,200
for-profit property owner and your your
fundraising is not allowed, but this

1640
02:19:17,280 --> 02:19:24,719
other not for-profit organization that
was identified in a that actually came

1641
02:19:22,559 --> 02:19:26,479
from a cover letter from the architect.
>> Yes.

1642
02:19:25,200 --> 02:19:29,200
» That right.
>> And and in the minutes, it was also in

1643
02:19:27,840 --> 02:19:32,080
the minutes. We did
>> Yeah, I know. And I did a lot of

1644
02:19:30,559 --> 02:19:35,840
research myself, so I know exactly what
you're talking about. But I think that

1645
02:19:33,679 --> 02:19:41,519
we can get to a point where we say,
"Okay, this doesn't necessarily make

1646
02:19:38,559 --> 02:19:45,679
sense to preclude us from having
fundraising activities and allow

1647
02:19:43,599 --> 02:19:52,240
somebody else to do that." At the very
least, I think that the the resolution

1648
02:19:49,280 --> 02:19:59,680
needs to be revisited to clarify that.
>> Um, I think the latest uh

1649
02:19:57,040 --> 02:20:04,399
uh the latest violation was about the
crack, right? No, it was about the It

1650
02:20:02,319 --> 02:20:08,000
was craft fair
breakfast with the Easter Bunny.

1651
02:20:07,359 --> 02:20:12,240
I'm sorry.
>> Yes, it was all they were all

1652
02:20:09,520 --> 02:20:16,000
advertised. That's why. And and so so I
believe the dinners may have taken

1653
02:20:14,880 --> 02:20:19,280
place,
>> but the craft fair was cancelled and the

1654
02:20:18,800 --> 02:20:23,359
» breakfast,
>> but the Yeah, the Easter Bunny breakfast

1655
02:20:20,880 --> 02:20:30,319
was cancelled, but but I think that the
dinners went through. I I believe what

1656
02:20:25,359 --> 02:20:34,560
the concern was um was was as
it was the fact that with like the

1657
02:20:31,680 --> 02:20:40,000
dinners it was just the public kind of
coming picking up the dinner and then

1658
02:20:37,120 --> 02:20:44,240
leaving you know kind of you know
doesn't have a

1659
02:20:41,600 --> 02:20:49,760
» that's what the American Legion does
very often. It's churches do it you know

1660
02:20:47,040 --> 02:20:55,200
fish fries all types of things. There
was, I think, 15 people that attended

1661
02:20:52,319 --> 02:21:00,880
each of those and the great majority of
those were our own employees or campus

1662
02:20:58,000 --> 02:21:06,000
residents.
I And I'm not hearing, you know, I I

1663
02:21:02,880 --> 02:21:12,000
heard some opposition to Brookme, very
few, but I'm not hearing about traffic

1664
02:21:08,560 --> 02:21:19,040
issues. I'm not hearing about noise, any
types of complaints. foiled the um the

1665
02:21:15,920 --> 02:21:23,760
town to find out what complaints have
been received. There was maybe a

1666
02:21:21,200 --> 02:21:28,399
reference to one complaint, no formal
written complaints on record of saying

1667
02:21:25,760 --> 02:21:34,479
this is unacceptable. I think we noted
before when we had the um the voting. We

1668
02:21:31,040 --> 02:21:39,359
had over 5,000 people come through to
campus. So, you know, on on that

1669
02:21:36,560 --> 02:21:44,479
occasion, it's okay to, you know, wear
and tear on our building, wear and tear

1670
02:21:41,920 --> 02:21:48,479
on our resources. That's okay. We we
don't get paid anything for that. That's

1671
02:21:46,080 --> 02:21:54,479
that's something that we we allow to
happen. And and quite honestly, it's

1672
02:21:51,280 --> 02:21:59,600
like, well, you know, we're we're good
when we need something for Brookme, but

1673
02:21:57,359 --> 02:22:02,240
then, you know, Brookme wants to do
something. All of a sudden, it's like,

1674
02:22:00,960 --> 02:22:05,280
well, we got to look at this a little
bit more closely. And and I respect

1675
02:22:04,000 --> 02:22:08,080
that. I understand that there are
boundaries, but there's also

1676
02:22:06,880 --> 02:22:10,080
reasonleness
>> and that's all I'm asking for the board

1677
02:22:09,439 --> 02:22:13,439
to exercise.
>> And I I think that's one of the main

1678
02:22:11,680 --> 02:22:18,000
questions that perhaps the board should
consider. You know, as Sean said, you

1679
02:22:15,359 --> 02:22:20,880
know, they're not saying that everything
they do, what you were saying is that

1680
02:22:19,439 --> 02:22:24,560
you don't want it to just be, oh, we
slap our names on this and now it's a

1681
02:22:22,399 --> 02:22:27,920
fundraiser. So I think that you know
there does have to be some sort of

1682
02:22:26,160 --> 02:22:32,640
perhaps
like I said a foundation to kind of

1683
02:22:29,520 --> 02:22:38,000
better understand what's permitted if if
the board wants to do that. But again,

1684
02:22:35,040 --> 02:22:43,760
just to say the voting was again in the
2017 resolution and I'm just

1685
02:22:42,479 --> 02:22:47,760
picking and choosing because
>> the board when they decided that was

1686
02:22:45,760 --> 02:22:51,600
that they you're kind of giving you guys
a bit of a softball of saying

1687
02:22:50,080 --> 02:22:55,200
» this really isn't an accessory
structure, but we we realized you made

1688
02:22:53,680 --> 02:22:59,920
these representations and we want to let
you continue doing them. So, you know, I

1689
02:22:58,720 --> 02:23:03,840
just want to say it's not like they're
picking and choosing. there was a

1690
02:23:01,439 --> 02:23:09,040
limitations set forth and we I think the
board want to try to be as fair to

1691
02:23:05,280 --> 02:23:12,319
repeat as they can and you know
not have it thrown back in our face

1692
02:23:10,800 --> 02:23:16,000
which is kind of what it's doing because
again we're just trying to

1693
02:23:13,680 --> 02:23:20,720
» I I don't well I don't think it's being
thrown back in your face from from the

1694
02:23:17,760 --> 02:23:25,200
brookie perspective at all. I think that
an unreasonable interpretation by the

1695
02:23:23,520 --> 02:23:29,359
zoning enforcement officer is what
brought us here today. That's what I

1696
02:23:27,359 --> 02:23:33,920
think and that's why I'm asking the
board respectfully [clears throat]

1697
02:23:30,960 --> 02:23:38,399
to overturn with the notices of
violation to revisit to the extent

1698
02:23:36,720 --> 02:23:44,640
necessary to the extent that you deem
it's necessary to revisit the

1699
02:23:40,399 --> 02:23:50,720
resolution. I I'm not suggesting that um
we're coming back here saying you got it

1700
02:23:47,200 --> 02:23:54,000
wrong because we did. We we would have
and we had other means if we thought

1701
02:23:52,319 --> 02:23:59,280
that you got it wrong, right? and and
and we worked together very well last

1702
02:23:56,880 --> 02:24:05,600
time around and I was very appreciative
of the process and if if it's helpful to

1703
02:24:02,319 --> 02:24:10,080
provide that you know list or to engage
in any type of dialogue whatsoever to

1704
02:24:08,080 --> 02:24:13,840
just help get a little bit of clarity
>> yes

1705
02:24:11,200 --> 02:24:16,479
» be greatly appreciated
>> I think a list of of

1706
02:24:15,760 --> 02:24:22,240
» Yes. [clears throat]
I would like to see if if something we

1707
02:24:21,280 --> 02:24:27,359
can ask for.
>> Sure.

1708
02:24:23,680 --> 02:24:30,880
» The uh um
overturn the variance. I mean that would

1709
02:24:29,760 --> 02:24:34,319
be by
>> what's what what do we overcome the

1710
02:24:32,640 --> 02:24:36,000
varian
the violations?

1711
02:24:34,880 --> 02:24:42,880
» Oh the violations.
>> Uh with the with the condition that we

1712
02:24:39,920 --> 02:24:46,560
move forward with an agreed calendar.
Well, before we I guess do you want to

1713
02:24:44,640 --> 02:24:52,240
see what the list is first? You just
want to ask you want to if if you

1714
02:24:50,800 --> 02:24:59,040
» I think that'd be helpful.
>> Can do that. That would be helpful. Yes.

1715
02:24:55,840 --> 02:25:04,319
» Sure. If we're working from a list
of of things that you feel like should

1716
02:25:01,920 --> 02:25:08,720
be are in the gray area.
>> Well, I mean I I mean I guess the whole

1717
02:25:06,479 --> 02:25:12,160
question is what's the gray area and
what's the black and white? So,

1718
02:25:10,560 --> 02:25:15,200
» and you're not going to make a list that
you think is in the gray area, right?

1719
02:25:14,875 --> 02:25:20,560
[laughter]
>> Because then we wouldn't be here. So, so

1720
02:25:18,319 --> 02:25:26,240
if you make a list and that we can
consider it together and say, you know,

1721
02:25:23,200 --> 02:25:32,080
you have these concerns about this and
these seven things or whatever it is is

1722
02:25:29,200 --> 02:25:38,800
is fine. Then I think that we, like I
said, we can all get comfortable with

1723
02:25:34,800 --> 02:25:45,280
with how the fundraising and and and
other um

1724
02:25:42,800 --> 02:25:51,359
activities with the Nexus can be
conducted on the Brook campus.

1725
02:25:48,720 --> 02:25:56,399
» I I I think we want to avoid, and I'm
sure you do as well,

1726
02:25:54,319 --> 02:25:59,920
being where we say something kind of
general.

1727
02:25:57,359 --> 02:26:04,720
» Yeah. And then there's like no specific
guidance about does this thing that

1728
02:26:02,080 --> 02:26:08,960
we're doing fit into that or not, you
know. So I think we want to try and

1729
02:26:07,680 --> 02:26:10,399
» take away the guessing.
>> Yeah.

1730
02:26:09,280 --> 02:26:15,840
» Yeah. I agree.
>> You know,

1731
02:26:12,560 --> 02:26:21,439
» Sean, I think, excuse me,
>> yeah, the public hearing a little bit

1732
02:26:17,280 --> 02:26:24,439
Oh, thank you. I think
>> Sorry.

1733
02:26:25,280 --> 02:26:31,120
» Thank you.
uh Karen Strut with the Brook community.

1734
02:26:29,520 --> 02:26:36,160
Thank you for your time for hearing
this. Again, I think what occurred in

1735
02:26:33,200 --> 02:26:40,479
2017 was a list was asked, you know, of
certain events that are occurring uh at

1736
02:26:38,479 --> 02:26:44,560
the facilities now. So, we have Barri
the independent living where the voting

1737
02:26:42,319 --> 02:26:50,319
was taking place. So, we we put together
a list not I don't think was the

1738
02:26:47,760 --> 02:26:53,600
understanding that all inclusive because
we had Omega on there because Omega was

1739
02:26:52,240 --> 02:26:58,399
coming in. Megan, you helped me with the
list. um running that chamber. There

1740
02:26:56,000 --> 02:27:03,280
were meeting in the rooms, craft fairs
we had in the nursing home, um you know,

1741
02:27:01,200 --> 02:27:06,399
employees appreciated it, the residents
and visitors and guests that came

1742
02:27:04,640 --> 02:27:11,359
through. So, those are the kinds of
things that we threw together on the

1743
02:27:08,960 --> 02:27:15,840
2017 list
without understanding that whoa, you

1744
02:27:13,760 --> 02:27:18,560
know, that's what happened. So, we live
with forever.

1745
02:27:16,880 --> 02:27:22,479
» Yeah. No, I think I think what happened
when when we had requested the list. I

1746
02:27:20,960 --> 02:27:28,000
think when we started looking back in
the 2017 application, it said, you know,

1747
02:27:25,760 --> 02:27:31,840
it gave like a list of like these are
the things that are happening or like

1748
02:27:29,760 --> 02:27:35,439
Brook accessory uses such as blah blah
blah blah blah and then it said and

1749
02:27:33,680 --> 02:27:38,640
other events happening. So we were like
well what other events are happening? I

1750
02:27:37,280 --> 02:27:43,439
think that's what we had wanted to kind
of understand

1751
02:27:40,640 --> 02:27:47,040
uh you know to see what was represented
to the planning board at the time of the

1752
02:27:44,960 --> 02:27:50,640
2017. So it wasn't so much a list. It
was just that was what that request was

1753
02:27:49,439 --> 02:27:55,280
to understand.
>> We had a penny social every year. People

1754
02:27:52,960 --> 02:27:58,319
are borrowing baskets from the community
that came in. They used to be a garage

1755
02:27:56,479 --> 02:28:01,600
sale when I first started working there.
The activities room was filled with

1756
02:27:59,920 --> 02:28:05,840
donations like couches and things like
that that took up the whole rehab room.

1757
02:28:03,600 --> 02:28:11,520
Uh because they had an annual garage
sale. So there's all of those kinds of

1758
02:28:08,000 --> 02:28:15,760
different fundraising efforts. um and a
lot of those programs which in turn

1759
02:28:13,359 --> 02:28:20,479
turned into a craft fair which you see a
lot of people the high school did did

1760
02:28:17,600 --> 02:28:26,000
that kind of event and it just I mean we
spoke to some of the residents it brings

1761
02:28:22,080 --> 02:28:29,760
just different life uh to them and um
yeah so I just want to add that piece

1762
02:28:27,920 --> 02:28:32,399
but we didn't I didn't understand at
that time that it is an all-incclusive

1763
02:28:31,200 --> 02:28:37,680
list that we put together
>> it was just to be clear Karen that was a

1764
02:28:34,720 --> 02:28:42,640
different question in the 2025 we were
just we were trying to better understand

1765
02:28:39,680 --> 02:28:47,200
what approvals were granted you in 2017.
>> But this list I gave you in 2017 is what

1766
02:28:45,680 --> 02:28:49,359
you would say would be the fundraising
list.

1767
02:28:47,760 --> 02:28:53,040
» Yeah. It wasn't like I didn't realize
that you could like I put Omega on there

1768
02:28:51,600 --> 02:28:57,760
and we love Omega because they were
coming to the buildings. I didn't I

1769
02:28:55,439 --> 02:29:02,399
didn't know that okay only Omega will be
able to come or only Ryback Chamber

1770
02:28:59,840 --> 02:29:06,720
because I provided a list that was uh
some give us some ideas of what the

1771
02:29:04,640 --> 02:29:10,479
space would be used for. I said it'd be
great. we can remove this from Marbor

1772
02:29:08,399 --> 02:29:14,000
Ridge the voting we can move the you
know these certain things that were

1773
02:29:11,840 --> 02:29:19,359
happening uh that were in the in the
living space of our residents there

1774
02:29:16,240 --> 02:29:23,680
» but I think the concern is that you know
I think from the public comments it was

1775
02:29:21,760 --> 02:29:29,280
very clear that you know there there is
a good utility to to have you community

1776
02:29:26,319 --> 02:29:33,600
and it's a nice um opportunity for
groups that may have outgrown their

1777
02:29:30,720 --> 02:29:40,880
space such as the beekeepers but I think
the concern is that when does it now

1778
02:29:37,439 --> 02:29:45,280
go from an accessory use to Brookme to a
community center which isn't permitted

1779
02:29:42,800 --> 02:29:51,280
in the RC5 and which is now kind of a
separate use. I think that was the

1780
02:29:48,319 --> 02:29:54,399
concern raised with the beekeepers or
you know we wanted to understand well

1781
02:29:52,640 --> 02:29:58,548
well who have you been
>> far above what I can understand

1782
02:29:56,528 --> 02:29:58,548
[laughter]

1783
02:30:00,160 --> 02:30:04,720
have like multiple principal uses you
kind of have to [snorts] that's why we

1784
02:30:03,200 --> 02:30:11,200
keep talking about that nexus or
connection because it has to be

1785
02:30:06,800 --> 02:30:16,240
» overall connected to Brookme and I think
it's very clear that that it's that's a

1786
02:30:13,120 --> 02:30:20,240
great space to use but it has to still
as as the board has mentioned be the

1787
02:30:18,399 --> 02:30:25,359
confines of what's permitted
>> right the I totally understand where

1788
02:30:23,520 --> 02:30:29,280
you're coming from about when I wrote
this list it was like these are things

1789
02:30:27,359 --> 02:30:35,040
that we do
>> the kind of codification of that list

1790
02:30:32,479 --> 02:30:42,160
that then happened in the two in the
2025 resolution was

1791
02:30:39,359 --> 02:30:48,000
to not take something away that had been
explicitly granted but all the things

1792
02:30:45,280 --> 02:30:50,560
that weren't explicitly granted is the
area worth.

1793
02:30:49,520 --> 02:30:54,479
» Kind of like we didn't want to keep
expanding.

1794
02:30:52,080 --> 02:30:59,840
» What's not really an accessory use like
you know giving it to you know I I think

1795
02:30:57,760 --> 02:31:05,120
there were like a I think there was the
Star Library I think had wanted to have

1796
02:31:01,840 --> 02:31:09,520
a gala at going to a fundraiser there.
>> Yeah. and and that's why we wanted to

1797
02:31:06,640 --> 02:31:13,680
say these were the ones that you had
mentioned and and represented to the

1798
02:31:11,200 --> 02:31:17,680
board, but there has to be a limit
before we start getting into another use

1799
02:31:16,000 --> 02:31:23,280
completely. You know, using the pavilion
as a meeting space or a community space.

1800
02:31:21,120 --> 02:31:26,880
There's a point where just we're now
having two separate uses on

1801
02:31:25,520 --> 02:31:30,800
» or unrelated
>> unrelated, right? Yeah.

1802
02:31:28,399 --> 02:31:36,240
» So, I think I think if we put together
like a more forwardlooking

1803
02:31:33,120 --> 02:31:42,319
» Yes. document that kind of outlines what
our activities, what we would see them

1804
02:31:38,880 --> 02:31:44,640
to be. Um, that might be uh
>> I think that would be really helpful for

1805
02:31:43,760 --> 02:31:46,720
the board to
>> I think that would be very helpful.

1806
02:31:46,399 --> 02:31:52,560
Sure.
>> I think for in particular

1807
02:31:49,920 --> 02:31:59,040
things that
would be marketed to the public. So, so

1808
02:31:55,439 --> 02:32:04,399
I think that you know you having a group
come in and it's in that list that's in

1809
02:32:01,280 --> 02:32:10,560
the 2017 list if they come and have a
meeting we don't need to know about

1810
02:32:06,080 --> 02:32:15,120
that. Um but if but if you're um you
know if you are marketing something to

1811
02:32:12,720 --> 02:32:19,920
the general public something that we're
going to see and go I wonder what that's

1812
02:32:17,760 --> 02:32:25,280
all about. We need to be concerned about
that. then those are the things we want

1813
02:32:22,399 --> 02:32:32,080
to know about and then and be able to
say so for example the star library

1814
02:32:27,840 --> 02:32:37,520
having a valid there to me not
fall into the current permitted uses

1815
02:32:35,840 --> 02:32:40,936
because that would be a total third
party

1816
02:32:38,399 --> 02:32:43,040
» and just to be clear that that did not
[laughter]

1817
02:32:41,920 --> 02:32:48,080
exact but
>> no I just wanted to just give an example

1818
02:32:45,760 --> 02:32:53,680
we're clear on the things on the on the
things that were sort of grandfathered

1819
02:32:49,760 --> 02:32:58,640
in were cleared on that were clear on um
on things that happened within the

1820
02:32:56,160 --> 02:33:05,760
confined to book and the thing that that
this particular violation where it falls

1821
02:33:01,040 --> 02:33:09,840
foul is the is the is opening it to the
public and I think we're acknowledging

1822
02:33:08,080 --> 02:33:13,439
that
maybe some things should be open to the

1823
02:33:11,680 --> 02:33:19,040
public and we just want to be clear on
what what those things are

1824
02:33:15,439 --> 02:33:23,520
» and and so that when
>> yeah so that we don't end up here again.

1825
02:33:21,280 --> 02:33:28,439
» Sure. No, I appreciate that
>> and I think my client appreciates that

1826
02:33:25,200 --> 02:33:28,439
as well.

1827
02:33:28,960 --> 02:33:33,000
» Sure. Is it okay?

1828
02:33:38,576 --> 02:33:45,600
[laughter]
>> I'll be I'll be very brief. Um, one of

1829
02:33:43,359 --> 02:33:50,960
the things I My name is Michael Green.
I'm uh the board president at that

1830
02:33:48,319 --> 02:33:58,319
community group meet.
One of the things I think that that it

1831
02:33:53,760 --> 02:34:03,920
really bothered me was
people were telling us what we can do

1832
02:34:00,240 --> 02:34:10,800
and can't do for the the the the
residents at at the uh at the Baptist

1833
02:34:07,280 --> 02:34:15,439
home or now our now it's the medals. Uh
I get it. I know

1834
02:34:13,600 --> 02:34:19,040
uh or at the community of Brookby. What
what I what I think you really

1835
02:34:16,566 --> 02:34:25,600
[laughter] have to understand too about
our community is it's not just a nursing

1836
02:34:21,920 --> 02:34:31,120
home. There's we we have uh assisted
living there. So little more a little

1837
02:34:28,160 --> 02:34:37,040
more vi viable to go out a little bit.
We have independent living there as well

1838
02:34:33,840 --> 02:34:40,720
as we we have the uh the adult day, you
know, where people bring people into

1839
02:34:38,800 --> 02:34:45,359
elderly and some younger people, you
know, disabled people.

1840
02:34:43,359 --> 02:34:52,240
So, when we do these things, I've been
on the board since since uh 99 199

1841
02:34:50,240 --> 02:34:58,080
when we did all these programs, it was
always because we wanted the whole our

1842
02:34:56,080 --> 02:35:04,000
residents involved in these things. when
you when you when it kept coming up. Um

1843
02:35:01,439 --> 02:35:11,840
I was shocked at at at the fact that we
couldn't do the uh the craft fair.

1844
02:35:08,399 --> 02:35:17,600
Yeah. People from the outside come in,
but do you see the pe the people going

1845
02:35:14,880 --> 02:35:23,600
in there with wheelchairs
going and and socializing in the craft

1846
02:35:20,479 --> 02:35:28,880
fair with with with people that are
outside of or within the community? um

1847
02:35:27,040 --> 02:35:32,640
you know they they'll never remember
when somebody's in a nursing home it's

1848
02:35:30,319 --> 02:35:39,760
usually because they can't do functions
of daily daily living ADLs daily living

1849
02:35:36,080 --> 02:35:45,439
activity living and
now we can get them to these places and

1850
02:35:43,520 --> 02:35:51,120
they could by a little something walk
around talk to people uh then of course

1851
02:35:48,000 --> 02:35:54,800
we have our seniors um the independent
they come down there to the craft fair

1852
02:35:52,880 --> 02:35:59,120
they're in our community they can
actually drive for car down there if

1853
02:35:56,399 --> 02:36:02,800
they want to. Then we have the assisted
living.

1854
02:36:00,720 --> 02:36:08,479
They they they can they can get up on
their own. It's just across the street

1855
02:36:04,720 --> 02:36:12,319
actually. So, you know what I'm saying
is when you look at some of the

1856
02:36:09,840 --> 02:36:15,439
activities we're doing, it may look like
you to you that oh, it's just a

1857
02:36:14,319 --> 02:36:18,880
fundraiser and they're just trying to
make money or they're trying to do that.

1858
02:36:16,800 --> 02:36:23,760
We're trying to involve our community in
it. And if if these people can come in

1859
02:36:21,439 --> 02:36:29,439
and and that the residents that live
there can do these things, um it makes a

1860
02:36:27,760 --> 02:36:36,319
big difference in their life. And I know
it because I I have somebody living

1861
02:36:32,319 --> 02:36:40,800
there in my family. And
what she can do there compared to what I

1862
02:36:38,640 --> 02:36:47,359
can give give to her, it's just it it's
just just blows me away. So I just I

1863
02:36:44,000 --> 02:36:51,120
just wanted you to when we give a list,
you know, the the I [clears throat] I

1864
02:36:49,520 --> 02:36:56,960
hate giving lists because we might want
to add something to it later, but but

1865
02:36:53,680 --> 02:37:01,040
when we give a list, um we're we're
trying to it's involving the whole

1866
02:36:59,200 --> 02:37:04,240
community there and yeah, people from
the we want people from the outside to

1867
02:37:02,800 --> 02:37:09,040
come in. First of all, that we want them
to know that we exist, how beautiful our

1868
02:37:07,040 --> 02:37:13,600
place is, and that maybe they will bring
their loved ones there when it's time. I

1869
02:37:11,439 --> 02:37:18,319
mean, it's it's it's so it is a
marketing thing. I don't want to deny

1870
02:37:16,080 --> 02:37:22,800
that, but it's it's more than that. It's
it's it's allowing our residents to be

1871
02:37:20,479 --> 02:37:25,760
involved in community activities. I'll
stop there.

1872
02:37:25,040 --> 02:37:27,600
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.

1873
02:37:26,880 --> 02:37:32,840
» Thank you.
>> There's [clears throat] another

1874
02:37:28,319 --> 02:37:32,840
gentleman who would like to say

1875
02:37:34,000 --> 02:37:42,800
I'm not being repetitious. Let me just
finish saying everything I was going to

1876
02:37:39,439 --> 02:37:48,800
say. My wife was a resident of uh for
media for four years and with that I was

1877
02:37:46,720 --> 02:37:53,920
in there on the LA basis. I'm a wife
resident. My name is Oral Johnson. I

1878
02:37:51,439 --> 02:38:02,479
worked in this area for many many years.
I was locally and around the area live

1879
02:37:58,160 --> 02:38:07,040
in German Town. So I mean involved with
so many people from around the area that

1880
02:38:05,040 --> 02:38:12,720
and even on these petitions they weren't
necessarily people just from Rybeck that

1881
02:38:09,920 --> 02:38:17,200
signed them. There were people who had
family down here. We have a very high

1882
02:38:15,040 --> 02:38:20,640
percentage of people you know we have
New York City. We have them in different

1883
02:38:18,640 --> 02:38:25,920
places. On the other hand, we have a
very high percentage of local people.

1884
02:38:23,280 --> 02:38:30,960
And the family comes in when we have a
prayer fair or we have some of these

1885
02:38:27,600 --> 02:38:37,680
other things, you know, and a gather or
whatever and they'll bring their

1886
02:38:33,840 --> 02:38:44,240
resident uh family down. And so in
reality is it that part of a stretch to

1887
02:38:40,560 --> 02:38:48,000
say yes, this is for residents too when
we are having some sort of a fundraiser

1888
02:38:46,720 --> 02:38:51,359
because where are they going to go?
You're not going to take them down to

1889
02:38:48,880 --> 02:38:56,479
meet him in arms to go dancing or to see
dancing or to see activity going. You

1890
02:38:54,160 --> 02:39:01,280
know what? In a wheelchair, can you
whirl down there? You know, they're

1891
02:38:58,880 --> 02:39:06,160
faculty still there. They can be a
little bit off, but still enough to go

1892
02:39:03,920 --> 02:39:10,960
and appreciate the things that are
happening and see people other than the

1893
02:39:09,520 --> 02:39:16,720
people you're going to see in the dining
room and to go and say have a selection

1894
02:39:13,680 --> 02:39:21,359
of folks. And it's very, very important.
I just cannot stress it. In addition to

1895
02:39:18,800 --> 02:39:26,479
that, I think it's so important.
After my wife passed, it seemed like my

1896
02:39:24,000 --> 02:39:31,840
car didn't know how to pull out of my
driveway without turning left. I put in

1897
02:39:29,840 --> 02:39:38,319
as a volunteer
probably 100 hours a month. I am in

1898
02:39:36,240 --> 02:39:44,240
there almost seven days a week
generally. Oh, are you here again? No.

1899
02:39:41,040 --> 02:39:48,800
And and uh that's how much this place
really means to me because the way it

1900
02:39:46,240 --> 02:39:53,680
was treated and the environment and
people see new people to talk to. I mean

1901
02:39:51,439 --> 02:39:57,920
I spend a bunch of time just walking
around chewing a breeze. If I can put a

1902
02:39:55,840 --> 02:40:03,280
smile on somebody's face, which these
events would do when you're seeing other

1903
02:40:00,399 --> 02:40:08,560
people, then it's well worthwhile. I get
more out of it than I put into it. But

1904
02:40:06,160 --> 02:40:14,160
it's I really hope you come up with some
very very favorable decisions because

1905
02:40:11,760 --> 02:40:19,440
it's really needed and it's an important
place. Thank you very much.

1906
02:40:15,920 --> 02:40:21,460
» Thank you very much Mr.
[clears throat]

1907
02:40:27,120 --> 02:40:35,439
» Good evening. I'm Rebecca Stz. I'm the
director of the Ryback Community Nursery

1908
02:40:31,680 --> 02:40:39,359
School. And in 2021, I contacted Bryant
and Karen and asked if they had a place

1909
02:40:37,840 --> 02:40:43,040
to rent because we were currently
homeless. It's a nursery school that had

1910
02:40:41,120 --> 02:40:49,600
been established in the town of Rimebeck
in 1997. And we have been happy happy

1911
02:40:47,280 --> 02:40:53,680
residents there for the last few years.
And we did come before the Reinbeck

1912
02:40:52,160 --> 02:40:58,000
zoning board, not the board of appeals,
but the zoning board,

1913
02:40:55,439 --> 02:41:02,160
» excuse me, planning board. Yes. in 2021
and it was determined that we were an

1914
02:41:00,000 --> 02:41:07,520
accessory use that we were given the
variance because we were integral to the

1915
02:41:04,880 --> 02:41:11,760
needs of the senior citizens who resided
at the community at Brooklyn and it's

1916
02:41:09,680 --> 02:41:16,479
been an incredible partnership. I just
wanted [clears throat] to second what

1917
02:41:13,600 --> 02:41:22,479
Mike said and what Arie said and also to
say when you do look at that list if

1918
02:41:19,520 --> 02:41:28,960
there's a way you can make a lens that
really values and looks at the senior

1919
02:41:26,160 --> 02:41:33,280
citizen involvement and emotional and
social enrichment because that's what

1920
02:41:31,120 --> 02:41:38,800
we're there for. That's what most of
these things are there for and that's

1921
02:41:35,680 --> 02:41:43,479
what we try and do effortly. So thank
you. Thank you very much.

1922
02:41:45,200 --> 02:41:55,040
» Okay. So, as far as homework goes, I'll
prepare a list to submit to Gretchen and

1923
02:41:53,120 --> 02:42:00,000
then that can be circulated along the
board. If you come up with anything else

1924
02:41:57,359 --> 02:42:01,280
in the meantime and get that to you
within a week.

1925
02:42:00,880 --> 02:42:05,280
» Okay.
>> Is that

1926
02:42:01,920 --> 02:42:07,760
» that should be reasonable?
in New York.

1927
02:42:06,080 --> 02:42:11,200
» I would continue the public hearing so
that the board has a chance to look at

1928
02:42:09,280 --> 02:42:17,342
the list and in case any public
>> Okay. So, let's make it two weeks.

1929
02:42:14,080 --> 02:42:19,361
» Can I get it to you in two weeks?
[laughter]

1930
02:42:21,120 --> 02:42:24,960
» Yes, that would be fine.
>> Okay.

1931
02:42:22,800 --> 02:42:28,720
» So, we continue
>> continue the public hearing September.

1932
02:42:27,040 --> 02:42:35,840
So, I'd like to make a motion to
continue the public hearing for

1933
02:42:33,120 --> 02:42:38,160
September 16th.
>> Do I have a second?

1934
02:42:37,200 --> 02:42:41,200
» Second.
>> All in favor?

1935
02:42:39,760 --> 02:42:42,720
» I.
>> Thank you very much.

1936
02:42:42,080 --> 02:42:47,080
» Thank you.
>> Appreciate it.

1937
02:42:43,760 --> 02:42:47,080
» Very welcome.

1938
02:42:50,160 --> 02:42:53,240
» All right.

1939
02:42:57,952 --> 02:42:59,972
» [laughter]

1940
02:43:07,359 --> 02:43:14,560
» Paul from family signs and I'm here to
represent foster flooring. I believe we

1941
02:43:12,720 --> 02:43:19,760
have to close the public hearing if
anyone's here to talk about that.

1942
02:43:16,240 --> 02:43:27,319
» I think the public hearing was closed.
So you're you're just on the public

1943
02:43:22,479 --> 02:43:27,319
hearing in general, not just

1944
02:43:30,640 --> 02:43:37,040
» Yeah. Um
>> are we doing are we is God with

1945
02:43:35,840 --> 02:43:39,439
grandma's too?
>> They're for resolution, but they're not

1946
02:43:38,720 --> 02:43:45,760
here. Okay.
>> So if you want to just they don't have

1947
02:43:43,920 --> 02:43:50,407
no
>> Yes. are back on.

1948
02:43:48,388 --> 02:43:50,407
[laughter]

1949
02:43:50,800 --> 02:43:58,720
Um, okay.
>> Uh, I have no idea.

1950
02:43:55,840 --> 02:44:04,763
» Uh, Joe was so do you want to discuss
this the site visit?

1951
02:44:01,520 --> 02:44:06,560
» I could not make it. So,
[clears throat]

1952
02:44:06,000 --> 02:44:11,920
» please.
>> Yeah. Uh

1953
02:44:08,720 --> 02:44:18,640
» I felt like the the sign in terms of the
proposed look and feel of it was fine.

1954
02:44:16,240 --> 02:44:23,040
This of the building certainly
uh

1955
02:44:20,560 --> 02:44:30,720
that's what was proposed.
Uh the placement I think uh Kim you did

1956
02:44:27,920 --> 02:44:33,520
clarify that it needs to be 20 ft from
the property line.

1957
02:44:31,760 --> 02:44:40,680
» Yeah. Do you have a do you know what
measurement it is? It wasn't clear on

1958
02:44:35,120 --> 02:44:40,680
the map. Um, let me check.

1959
02:44:40,800 --> 02:44:47,359
There's a couple of
>> It was challenging. You didn't really

1960
02:44:44,720 --> 02:44:53,680
know where the property line was.
It wasn't marked, but I believe that

1961
02:44:49,439 --> 02:45:00,800
there was a an orange stake in the
ground [clears throat]

1962
02:44:54,640 --> 02:45:05,279
that looks like it coincided with the
um

1963
02:45:03,439 --> 02:45:11,200
where the property line shown on the
site plan

1964
02:45:08,160 --> 02:45:15,040
of that one there. You see this line
here? This is the this is the property

1965
02:45:13,840 --> 02:45:19,200
line.
>> Okay. when they were This is the

1966
02:45:16,880 --> 02:45:27,040
building. This is the road. This curb
cut was installed shortly before we we

1967
02:45:22,000 --> 02:45:31,520
got there. Okay. Um a couple days ago,
um when they were putting the

1968
02:45:28,240 --> 02:45:36,720
landscaping in, there was u an orange
state about right there. And I think

1969
02:45:34,399 --> 02:45:44,800
that this is the property line and it
goes here. Um,

1970
02:45:40,399 --> 02:45:48,880
it's 35 feet from the edge of the road
and it has to just be within the

1971
02:45:46,720 --> 02:45:57,279
property line. It doesn't have to be 20
ft from the property line, right?

1972
02:45:53,040 --> 02:46:03,439
» I think it said that it had to be uh I
don't have the thing on there.

1973
02:46:00,960 --> 02:46:07,520
It said within 20 20 ft of the property
line. No more than 20 ft of the property

1974
02:46:05,520 --> 02:46:10,960
line. See if I can
>> can't be any closer more.

1975
02:46:09,120 --> 02:46:15,439
» I need to look at what I mean. It's got
to be near the road.

1976
02:46:12,399 --> 02:46:20,240
» It's 55 ft then. I mean, that's just
>> on the propert 20 ft from the road.

1977
02:46:17,359 --> 02:46:27,279
» 55 ft from the road because um you know,
the last one we did here for Decker uh C

1978
02:46:23,520 --> 02:46:36,560
um rentals. Um that was 20 ft from the
edge of the road. Um, now I don't know

1979
02:46:31,920 --> 02:46:43,600
where their property line is, but um I
think the 35 ft back

1980
02:46:40,080 --> 02:46:47,520
um was from the road.
>> Yeah. Well, this was this is for

1981
02:46:45,760 --> 02:46:50,080
permanent signs in other districts. I
don't know what the residential

1982
02:46:48,560 --> 02:46:52,720
districts are then, but I believe that
Decker was in a residential zone.

1983
02:46:51,600 --> 02:46:57,680
» Yeah, that was an outlier.
>> So, here's what Yeah. So, what it says

1984
02:46:54,800 --> 02:47:03,120
here is uh freestanding signs on the IC
6 ft in height nor be located closer

1985
02:47:00,240 --> 02:47:08,080
than 20 ft to any property line.
>> But what I said in the resolution was

1986
02:47:05,760 --> 02:47:10,720
that I encouraged you to go to the
building department just to verify that

1987
02:47:09,680 --> 02:47:14,720
just so you didn't need another
variance. That's all

1988
02:47:13,200 --> 02:47:18,880
is there. You have to go for a sign
permit. Correct.

1989
02:47:16,479 --> 02:47:20,960
» Yeah. I mean, we have a check for a sign
permit. It's been in here for four

1990
02:47:20,240 --> 02:47:23,359
months. So,
>> yeah.

1991
02:47:21,600 --> 02:47:26,000
» Yeah. Just just double check the the
measurement just so that you don't we

1992
02:47:24,640 --> 02:47:30,960
just want to make sure you don't have to
come back here. That's

1993
02:47:28,160 --> 02:47:35,040
» um this this went through site plan
review with that sign on the site plan.

1994
02:47:34,720 --> 02:47:38,720
No.
>> Yeah. I think the issue is we couldn't

1995
02:47:36,960 --> 02:47:41,920
tell where you were going to put the
sign when we went to the site.

1996
02:47:40,560 --> 02:47:44,960
» Well, they didn't take the fence down to
that.

1997
02:47:43,760 --> 02:47:48,240
» Everyone, let's take a picture.
>> It wasn't actually the fence that was

1998
02:47:46,720 --> 02:47:54,240
the problem. We didn't know where the
property line was definitively so that

1999
02:47:50,880 --> 02:47:57,040
we could measure 20 ft from it. So
that's why, you know, we went through

2000
02:47:55,600 --> 02:48:02,240
that little thing where the sign was
over here, it was over here, it was over

2001
02:47:58,720 --> 02:48:06,399
here, just so we could get a sense of
depending on how far away it is.

2002
02:48:04,319 --> 02:48:10,240
» All we're saying is that we assume that
the [clears throat] building permit

2003
02:48:08,640 --> 02:48:17,040
or the person who's going to close that
permit is going to make sure that the

2004
02:48:13,279 --> 02:48:22,399
sign's in the right place at this point.
and that we didn't have any issues with

2005
02:48:19,279 --> 02:48:26,560
the our aspects of
the sign.

2006
02:48:24,240 --> 02:48:31,600
» I mean, I think I think that last photo
that you showed

2007
02:48:28,560 --> 02:48:38,120
» was that was about the furthest away
from the road

2008
02:48:34,479 --> 02:48:38,120
» that we have it.

2009
02:48:39,600 --> 02:48:45,680
» See, now that that's up closer and then
of course you've got the cut in there,

2010
02:48:43,600 --> 02:48:50,319
too. So, it's hard to it's hard to know
exactly

2011
02:48:47,439 --> 02:48:54,920
where I think Kim I think
>> can you go back to the site plan real

2012
02:48:51,920 --> 02:48:54,920
quick.

2013
02:48:57,040 --> 02:49:03,760
» This is where we were showing the sign.
Okay. Right.

2014
02:49:02,720 --> 02:49:07,439
» Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Right. This this is the property line.

2015
02:49:05,840 --> 02:49:12,000
There was an orange steak.
>> Somebody got a picture of that.

2016
02:49:09,439 --> 02:49:15,680
» This is the property line.
This is where that fence came around. We

2017
02:49:14,000 --> 02:49:22,720
were showing
this the sign was about right here as I

2018
02:49:19,279 --> 02:49:28,000
recall. So if this is the property line
and I mean I'll ask them to mark it out.

2019
02:49:25,439 --> 02:49:31,760
The site contractor probably has a very
good idea of where that property line

2020
02:49:29,439 --> 02:49:36,319
is. It may even be marked up here and
they can pull a line or something.

2021
02:49:34,399 --> 02:49:42,319
From what you're telling me is this this
sign needs to be back 20 ft.

2022
02:49:40,560 --> 02:49:46,560
20 feet from here to here. Like whatever
that the leading edge of that sign is be

2023
02:49:44,880 --> 02:49:48,319
20 feet back from that property line.
>> Yep.

2024
02:49:47,120 --> 02:49:51,760
» Okay.
>> And I can put it anywhere in here at our

2025
02:49:50,240 --> 02:49:53,600
discretion.
>> Well, just

2026
02:49:52,880 --> 02:49:58,800
» Yeah. I mean,
>> well, wherever it is on a site map where

2027
02:49:55,200 --> 02:50:02,160
it is on site map.
>> Well, that's not 20 ft.

2028
02:50:01,279 --> 02:50:06,000
» That's what I'm saying.
>> You have another drawing. There is

2029
02:50:03,760 --> 02:50:09,520
another drawing that shows it 20 from
something.

2030
02:50:06,960 --> 02:50:14,399
» But just I I need clarity. You say just
your legal counsel. I'm This This is the

2031
02:50:11,760 --> 02:50:17,200
property line. I'm going in here 20 ft.
>> 20 ft? Yeah. It can't be It can't be

2032
02:50:16,640 --> 02:50:22,439
closer than that.
>> Can't be closer to

2033
02:50:18,000 --> 02:50:22,439
» Okay, that's where it's going to go.

2034
02:50:22,960 --> 02:50:27,359
» I didn't I tried to look for the
planning board. I didn't see it on the

2035
02:50:25,760 --> 02:50:32,479
planning board. So what I was just going
to ask you if it is on the sign site

2036
02:50:30,160 --> 02:50:36,080
plan it's not in the correct
>> I I have that in the resolution

2037
02:50:34,399 --> 02:50:41,920
» but it could
>> put the field as

2038
02:50:40,080 --> 02:50:44,720
I'll go through that. That's why I
that's why I didn't say you had to go

2039
02:50:43,439 --> 02:50:49,600
back for an amendment in case it could
be a field change

2040
02:50:45,840 --> 02:50:53,040
» right because it's required by this yeah
>> basically we just wanted to draw it to

2041
02:50:51,200 --> 02:50:57,439
your attention just so that
>> when you go to permit you just couldn't

2042
02:50:55,279 --> 02:51:01,120
tell. I mean, I think it'll work.
>> I do it by today. They planted in a

2043
02:50:59,200 --> 02:51:05,200
grove of trees right where the sign is
supposed to go. So, it may not even be

2044
02:51:03,040 --> 02:51:10,000
visible after all this work, which I
don't understand

2045
02:51:07,279 --> 02:51:14,960
» how that ends up happening. But, um cuz
this the sign is the only thing in that

2046
02:51:12,479 --> 02:51:22,319
area on the site plan and people just
planted literally about 12 trees in the

2047
02:51:18,160 --> 02:51:22,319
area we looked at on Saturday.

2048
02:51:22,720 --> 02:51:30,223
So, you know, trying to get this
completed so I can go with my life.

2049
02:51:28,203 --> 02:51:30,223
[laughter]

2050
02:51:30,800 --> 02:51:37,439
» And, you know, if it's 25 ft, it's 20
ft, whatever it is from the property

2051
02:51:34,800 --> 02:51:40,479
line, we'll do it. Um, but I, you know,
they've got to move the trees. Um,

2052
02:51:39,200 --> 02:51:44,080
otherwise, they're just wasting their
time and money on a barren and a and a

2053
02:51:42,880 --> 02:51:45,279
sign that no one's going to be able to
see. So,

2054
02:51:44,800 --> 02:51:49,600
» yeah.
>> Um, I'll go talk to Jacob from Hal

2055
02:51:47,439 --> 02:51:53,279
Halton Construction.
Um, I didn't think they were going to

2056
02:51:50,960 --> 02:51:56,000
plant any trees over there. I drove by
on the way to the meeting. It was

2057
02:51:55,520 --> 02:52:01,279
» a forest.
>> A forest. It was a forest. An immature

2058
02:51:58,560 --> 02:52:03,200
forest. But in 3 years,
>> Yeah.

2059
02:52:01,600 --> 02:52:05,520
» you're not going to see that sign.
>> Yeah.

2060
02:52:03,840 --> 02:52:08,160
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, I'll um

2061
02:52:07,520 --> 02:52:13,279
» I'll talk.
>> I think we were agreed if the sign is in

2062
02:52:10,960 --> 02:52:17,439
the right place for the line. All right.
>> Didn't have a problem with the design of

2063
02:52:14,720 --> 02:52:21,920
the sign. Just making sure
the sign is not Yeah, it really isn't.

2064
02:52:19,520 --> 02:52:26,160
The sign is a 12 foot sign, but because
it's double-sided,

2065
02:52:24,240 --> 02:52:30,319
we needed another 12 square ft for the
second sign. Yeah, it's it's just the

2066
02:52:28,160 --> 02:52:36,399
way that the code is written, it's not
um real conducive to um like a double

2067
02:52:34,000 --> 02:52:40,080
side on a highway situation. So,
>> yeah.

2068
02:52:37,520 --> 02:52:44,800
» All right. I'll um
>> So, do we need to resol

2069
02:52:42,319 --> 02:52:48,880
» Do we need to
>> Don't you have to draft a resolution and

2070
02:52:46,640 --> 02:52:53,040
send it to me? Oh, you do? Okay. Yeah, I
usually post it online with the

2071
02:52:51,120 --> 02:52:54,720
assistance of the town clerk, but I
didn't get to it.

2072
02:52:53,760 --> 02:52:57,520
» Well, that's okay.
>> But that's why

2073
02:52:55,600 --> 02:52:59,760
» you're not looking at it online.
>> Yeah, you can take a photo right there.

2074
02:52:59,439 --> 02:53:03,840
» All right.
>> So, I'll just go through with the board.

2075
02:53:01,760 --> 02:53:06,240
I have circulated to use seen. I'll just
show you what I've changed since you've

2076
02:53:05,520 --> 02:53:09,040
seen it.
>> Okay.

2077
02:53:06,560 --> 02:53:12,479
» Um, so I got in the referral dates
thanks um to Gretchen for providing

2078
02:53:10,800 --> 02:53:16,640
those to me.
>> And then I clarified who was on the site

2079
02:53:15,279 --> 02:53:21,520
visit. This was Scott, Karen, and
Catherine. Yeah.

2080
02:53:18,000 --> 02:53:25,279
» And so based on um Karen and Katherine's
comments, I just added that um due to

2081
02:53:23,760 --> 02:53:28,560
the current condition of the property
with ongoing construction, it was

2082
02:53:26,880 --> 02:53:33,040
difficult to fully evaluate the position
of the sign in relation to the property

2083
02:53:30,479 --> 02:53:38,080
boundary for a town and bind zoning law
section 125-373.

2084
02:53:36,240 --> 02:53:42,319
It's noted that prescending sign shall
not be located closer than 20 ft. The

2085
02:53:40,399 --> 02:53:45,760
applicant is encouraged to confirm that
no additional area bearings are required

2086
02:53:43,920 --> 02:53:50,080
for the sign placement. no business or
deliberations were conducted on the

2087
02:53:47,359 --> 02:53:56,000
site.
Um, and then I just kind of added that

2088
02:53:54,240 --> 02:54:02,000
to a little bit of that discussion to
the undesirable change criteria which

2089
02:53:59,760 --> 02:54:06,319
just said again it was unclear if it met
the setbacks. Um, applicant is

2090
02:54:04,800 --> 02:54:09,560
encouraged to verify that it's in the
right location.

2091
02:54:11,279 --> 02:54:18,080
And then if anybody wants to read
through the now therefore be resolved

2092
02:54:16,720 --> 02:54:21,680
about the honors.
>> Sure.

2093
02:54:19,760 --> 02:54:24,960
» Should I read that's got changes so I
got to read it from them. Right.

2094
02:54:22,800 --> 02:54:27,439
» Yeah. Does that one have the Can you
see?

2095
02:54:26,960 --> 02:54:31,399
» I can.
>> I'm not sure it doesn't have

2096
02:54:32,399 --> 02:54:41,600
Can you read it? Okay, Joe, from this
>> I think that's the change.

2097
02:54:38,720 --> 02:54:46,520
» Yeah.
You think this one right here?

2098
02:54:43,120 --> 02:54:46,520
» Yeah, it should.

2099
02:54:46,560 --> 02:54:49,840
» We'll follow along. Is that the one you
sent me?

2100
02:54:49,520 --> 02:54:53,200
» Yes.
>> A red line. Yeah.

2101
02:54:52,479 --> 02:54:56,840
» Yeah.
I want to do it again.

2102
02:55:02,479 --> 02:55:09,439
» Are you okay? Now therefore,
>> I forgot to do I got to state the I

2103
02:55:09,120 --> 02:55:14,560
forgot.
>> No, no, no. Here's now.

2104
02:55:11,520 --> 02:55:19,200
» Now, therefore get resolved based on all
the facts described above and upon

2105
02:55:16,240 --> 02:55:23,760
reasoning the reasoning described above
as follows. The CPA hereby creates the

2106
02:55:21,840 --> 02:55:28,720
variance requested by the applicant
finding that the benefit to the

2107
02:55:25,680 --> 02:55:31,840
applicant outweighs the detriment to the
health, safety, and welfare of the

2108
02:55:30,160 --> 02:55:37,680
neighborhood or community by such a
grant. The applicant's existing wall

2109
02:55:34,800 --> 02:55:42,840
identity sign only faces one direction
along route 9G. So, a double-sided

2110
02:55:43,680 --> 02:55:51,439
double-sided freestanding sign is
illogical and necessary to demonstrate

2111
02:55:48,640 --> 02:55:57,840
Frostford Floring's location along 9
Route 9G. Along this stretch of Route 9,

2112
02:55:54,960 --> 02:56:01,680
there are many businesses with signs,
most of which exceed the permitted 12

2113
02:55:59,760 --> 02:56:04,319
square foot area. Therefore, the
proposed sign will not be out of

2114
02:56:03,200 --> 02:56:08,960
character with the surrounding
neighborhood, [clears throat] excuse me,

2115
02:56:06,479 --> 02:56:14,640
and will properly identify the location
of the foster flooring on Route 9 G. The

2116
02:56:12,640 --> 02:56:18,960
grain of these variances are expressly
contingent upon the problem. Proposed

2117
02:56:16,800 --> 02:56:24,160
structure must be constructed in
conformity with the application and plan

2118
02:56:21,279 --> 02:56:28,800
submitted. The sign shall be located in
the same location that was approved by

2119
02:56:26,399 --> 02:56:33,200
the planning board in the site plan
approval. If the sign is not consistent

2120
02:56:31,680 --> 02:56:37,600
with the location approved by the
planning board, the applicant may be

2121
02:56:35,359 --> 02:56:42,640
required to seek an amendment to the
site plan to its site plan. Furthermore,

2122
02:56:40,319 --> 02:56:47,120
the applicant shall confirm with the
zoning enforcement officer that the

2123
02:56:44,880 --> 02:56:52,160
location of the sign is within the
necessary setbacks and that no further

2124
02:56:50,240 --> 02:56:57,200
area variances are required for the
location for the location of this

2125
02:56:54,880 --> 02:57:01,279
proposed sign. [snorts]
The granting of these variances shall be

2126
02:56:59,359 --> 02:57:06,479
expressly contingent upon the evidence
for payment to the town crime deck of

2127
02:57:03,520 --> 02:57:11,680
any fees and escro deposits through
connection with this application and

2128
02:57:08,479 --> 02:57:16,800
full compliance of article
14

2129
02:57:13,760 --> 02:57:21,680
deposit uh article 14 fees fee
reimbursement of the town private zoning

2130
02:57:19,439 --> 02:57:27,200
water. These variances shall not be
deemed granted until all such fees are

2131
02:57:23,680 --> 02:57:31,279
paid for by the equity. Section four,
the granting of these variances does not

2132
02:57:29,279 --> 02:57:37,120
absolve the applicant from having to
secure any other required permits and/or

2133
02:57:34,000 --> 02:57:42,800
approvals. Section five, very variances
shall be null boarded

2134
02:57:40,080 --> 02:57:47,760
constructions
of this resolution.

2135
02:57:45,120 --> 02:57:53,279
Upon specific written request by the
applicant, a timed extension may be made

2136
02:57:50,479 --> 02:57:59,600
in writing no later than two weeks prior
to the 12 month expiration date of the

2137
02:57:56,160 --> 02:58:05,040
adoption of this resolution. The cons
the consideration to grant such an

2138
02:58:02,240 --> 02:58:08,040
extension request shall be the in
discretion

2139
02:58:10,800 --> 02:58:17,439
over here.
Motion to approve the resolution.

2140
02:58:15,600 --> 02:58:23,479
» Yeah. Any discussion from the board?
>> Any discussion from the board?

2141
02:58:20,479 --> 02:58:23,479
» No.

2142
02:58:23,840 --> 02:58:29,120
» So motion to approve the resolution by
>> No.

2143
02:58:27,920 --> 02:58:32,560
Second it.
>> Seconded by

2144
02:58:30,960 --> 02:58:34,479
» Okay. Carol,
>> yes.

2145
02:58:33,760 --> 02:58:38,680
» Joe,
>> yes.

2146
02:58:35,680 --> 02:58:38,680
» Yes.

2147
02:58:41,600 --> 02:58:50,399
» Good. Okay,
thanks. I will um

2148
02:58:46,560 --> 02:58:54,640
seek the advice of the uh ZV
CEO.

2149
02:58:51,600 --> 02:59:00,240
» Yeah, we'll get that. Um I think we got
some trees to move first, but um

2150
02:58:57,279 --> 02:59:02,640
» I just got to go talk to the GC and see
what we can figure out.

2151
02:59:00,880 --> 02:59:05,920
» Yeah, just make sure that the you know
whatever was approved with the planning

2152
02:59:04,080 --> 02:59:09,200
board is pretty consistent. What
direction was saying is that sometimes

2153
02:59:07,359 --> 02:59:14,160
if it's like a minor change like you
know moving the over like a few feet or

2154
02:59:11,680 --> 02:59:17,200
something just to be informity um it's
called a field change you don't even

2155
02:59:15,439 --> 02:59:21,520
come back in front of the planning
board. So that's just just double check

2156
02:59:19,359 --> 02:59:23,359
your approvals and double check with the
CEO.

2157
02:59:22,399 --> 02:59:26,520
» Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

2158
02:59:31,920 --> 02:59:36,120
What do we need to read from the last?

2159
02:59:36,240 --> 02:59:45,600
» So that's the same. Um
this was uh provided to the board. Um I

2160
02:59:42,720 --> 02:59:54,359
didn't get a chance to send it to Jan.
Um but there's copies available

2161
02:59:49,760 --> 02:59:54,359
that we got.

2162
02:59:56,240 --> 03:00:01,359
» And then uh I can't remember who had
this.

2163
02:59:59,600 --> 03:00:06,359
» Richard.
Okay, I'm happy to do so.

2164
03:00:06,560 --> 03:00:12,960
» Are you approved?
>> Y

2165
03:00:10,319 --> 03:00:17,439
this is for the sle.
>> Exactly.

2166
03:00:15,120 --> 03:00:24,319
Okay.
So, uh for the matter of area variance

2167
03:00:21,359 --> 03:00:29,240
application of Andrew Samuels
Brian CBA case 1094

2168
03:00:32,720 --> 03:00:40,000
Now therefore, let it be resolved. Based
on all the facts described above and

2169
03:00:37,760 --> 03:00:44,479
upon the reasoning described above as
follows, the TBA hereby grants the

2170
03:00:42,560 --> 03:00:47,760
variance requested by the applicant
finding that the benefit to the

2171
03:00:46,000 --> 03:00:51,040
applicant outweighs the detriment to the
health, safety, and welfare of the

2172
03:00:49,359 --> 03:00:56,160
neighborhood or community by such a
grant. The proposed accessory dwelling

2173
03:00:53,600 --> 03:01:02,240
unit is numerically large, but it sits
within a 14 acre lot in the RN10 zoning

2174
03:00:59,200 --> 03:01:06,240
district. The applicant proposed a
principal dwelling

2175
03:01:04,240 --> 03:01:10,880
unit [snorts] and an accessory dwelling
unit. comparison the principal dwelling

2176
03:01:08,399 --> 03:01:15,040
unit. The proposed accessory dwelling
unit.

2177
03:01:13,200 --> 03:01:18,479
In comparison to the principal dwelling
unit, the proposed accessory dwelling

2178
03:01:16,560 --> 03:01:23,120
unit while exceeding the permitted 900
square ft requirement of the zoning law

2179
03:01:21,120 --> 03:01:26,960
is incidental and subordinate to the
principal dwelling and the overall size

2180
03:01:24,880 --> 03:01:31,040
of the property. The property remains
residential in nature. The accessory

2181
03:01:29,120 --> 03:01:34,800
dwelling unit proposed for family and
friends visiting. The layout of the

2182
03:01:33,040 --> 03:01:38,800
accessory dwelling will not be visible
from Mill Road and avoids the

2183
03:01:36,479 --> 03:01:43,200
conservation easement in the at the rear
of the property. The accessory structure

2184
03:01:40,800 --> 03:01:47,600
has been carefully designed and well fit
in the property. Although the driveway

2185
03:01:45,520 --> 03:01:51,279
is large and will require much work, the
planning board's consulting engineer and

2186
03:01:49,359 --> 03:01:56,080
fire inspector have reviewed it and
found it to be satisfactory, safe,

2187
03:01:53,120 --> 03:01:59,600
accessible, and feasible. Section two,
the granting of this variance is

2188
03:01:57,760 --> 03:02:03,359
expressly contingent upon the proposed
structure being constructed in

2189
03:02:02,000 --> 03:02:07,760
conformance with the plans and
application materials submitted by the

2190
03:02:05,439 --> 03:02:11,920
applicant and reviewed by the CDA.
Section three, the granting of this

2191
03:02:09,760 --> 03:02:15,439
variance shall also be expressly
contingent upon the applicant's full

2192
03:02:13,600 --> 03:02:20,720
payment to the town of Ryback of any and
all fees and escrow deposits due in

2193
03:02:18,319 --> 03:02:26,080
connection with this application in full
compliance with article 14 fee

2194
03:02:22,880 --> 03:02:30,399
reimbursement of the town of Ryan zoning
law. This variance shall not be deemed

2195
03:02:28,240 --> 03:02:34,560
granted until all such fees are paid in
full by the applicant. Section four, the

2196
03:02:32,960 --> 03:02:39,120
granting of this variance does not
absolve the applicant from having to

2197
03:02:36,800 --> 03:02:43,439
secure any other required permits and or
approvals. Section five, the area

2198
03:02:41,600 --> 03:02:47,279
variance shall be null and void unless
the proposed construction is commenced

2199
03:02:45,120 --> 03:02:51,279
within 12 months of this resolution.
Upon specific request by the applicant,

2200
03:02:49,680 --> 03:02:55,359
the time extension may be made in
writing no later than two weeks prior to

2201
03:02:53,120 --> 03:03:00,399
the 12 month expiration date of adoption
of this resolution. The consideration to

2202
03:02:57,680 --> 03:03:07,120
grant such extensions request shall be
at in the sole discretion like the ZBA.

2203
03:03:04,080 --> 03:03:11,840
I'd like to make a motion to approve
this resolution. Do I have a second?

2204
03:03:10,880 --> 03:03:16,319
» All in favor?
>> Have any discussion?

2205
03:03:13,040 --> 03:03:18,640
» Oh, any discussion.
>> All right. Ready?

2206
03:03:17,279 --> 03:03:20,000
» Ready. Terra.
>> Yes.

2207
03:03:19,359 --> 03:03:24,279
» No.
>> Yes.

2208
03:03:21,279 --> 03:03:24,279
» Yes.

2209
03:03:26,240 --> 03:03:29,560
That's right.

2210
03:03:30,800 --> 03:03:39,920
» I make a motion
like to make a motion to adjourn

2211
03:03:37,439 --> 03:03:44,080
the meeting of the zoning board of
appeals. Do I have a second?

2212
03:03:42,160 --> 03:03:51,640
» Second.
>> All in favor? I

2213
03:03:47,040 --> 03:03:51,640
» It's sure you want to stop.