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We are ready.

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Okay, I'd like to call to this

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meeting of the Rochester Select Board, Monday, October 5th, 2026.

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This meeting may be video and audio recorded. Please stand for the pledge.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the

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Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with

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liberty and justice for all.

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Thank you.

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Executive session. Executive session pursuant to Open Meeting Law Chapter 30A,

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Section 21 3 to discuss strategy with respect to litigation

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if an open meeting may have detrimental effect on the bargaining position of the

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public body and GSO appeals. To approve the executive

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session minutes of March 16th and April 6th, 2026.

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The board will not be returning to open session after the executive session.

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Is there a motion for the

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minutes?

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I make a motion to approve the minutes of September 21st.

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Second.

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Thank you. All in favor?

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Aye.

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Finance Committee appointment of Michael Amato, discussion and possible vote.

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Mr. Chair, per the

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bylaws

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regarding how the Finance Committee is formed, that vote is to be done through a

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committee of the chair of the Finance Committee, the moderator, and yourself.

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And representatives are here right now, Ms. Ricotta.

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Sorry, Ricco,

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and the town moderator.

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All right. So I will call to order the appointment party for the Finance Committee

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consisting of the town moderator as the chairperson, the Finance Committee

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chairman, and the chairperson of the select board.

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Since the vacancy has been created by the chairman of the Finance Committee, we

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defer it back to the vice chair, which is Mr. Ricco.

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Is Mr. Amato here?

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He is

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unable to be here, but he sent in

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a letter showing interest and NOA concern, basically.

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Okay. So historically, the applicant has been present to go ahead and answer any

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questions just like I was when I was appointed back in 2013.

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I did not receive a letter. I don't know if Mr. Ricco Jr. did not.

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So

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I don't know what the deal is, but I'd like to follow history in terms of allowing

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the applicant to be here, allow the public to ask the applicant any pertinent

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questions regarding the appointment, because it's obviously one of the more

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important committees that we do have in town.

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You can-- Well, certainly,

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as this committee, you can make your decision, and that's fine.

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I will be happy just to read quickly the letter to the record, and then you can

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most certainly choose your path. "Good afternoon, please accept this letter as my

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formal intent to apply for the open position on the Finance Committee.

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I bring many qualities required to succeed this position.

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I have been a resident of the town for 30 years and am invested in its future.

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As a business owner, I feel I'm highly qualified for this position.

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I have a vast knowledge of maintaining financial records, balancing budgets, as

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well as overseeing day-to-day operations. Thank you for the consideration. Dr.

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Michael Amato."

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Mr. Ricco?

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I agree with the moderator. He should be here to answer questions, again, because

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the decisions we make or the recommendations we make affect everybody in town.

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Everybody in town should have an opportunity to question whoever's on this

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committee.

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Chairperson of the select board.

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I don't see a problem with it.

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He's the only one that's interested in the position.

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Can't hear you.

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I don't see a problem with it because he's the only one that's interested in the

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position, and I think we should fill the position.

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If there were other people interested in that position,

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then I would say hold off. But

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as far as

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myself and the chairman is concerned, I think we should vote.

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Okay. Is there a motion?

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Nope, he has to go through you. As for you, Mr. Chairman?

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I make a motion to appoint Michael Amato to the Finance

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Committee for a term expiring-

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April 30th.

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April-

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With the next round of appointments on March 30th.

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April 30th, 2027.

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Is there a second?

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I'll second.

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Motion has been made and been seconded. Discussion?

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Same discussion.

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I don't think the person should be present to answer questions that the public

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might have.

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So

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I guess I'm concerned of the fact that myself and the Finance Committee vice

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chairman

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have concerns about that, and we take a vote and he is not voting in it.

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Obviously, it's the one applicant.

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So

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I make a motion we postpone the vote until the next meeting of the select board

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where we can actually meet the candidate.

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Either that or-

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There's been a motion that's been made.

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So you have to second.

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But Dewey seconded. So either the chairperson can rescind the vote,

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rescind his motion, or

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you can rescind your second.

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So can we postpone until he's available?

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I see-

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And then have a later meeting?

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So just for everybody's knowledge, the gentleman that's applied or put in a letter

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of interest is Dr. Michael Amato. A lot of you may or may not know him.

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He's also a call firefighter in the town of Rochester.

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He has a chiropractic firm in the town of Wareham, West Wareham area.

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So the reason he couldn't be here at 6:00 p.m.

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is because he's finishing up his day, as it were.

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He is a gentleman that has spent several years donating his time with the fire

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department. He rides the ambulance that comes to your houses in a time of need and

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emergencies.

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So we're going to try to reach out to him, see if we can get him here.

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As far as a character reference, I think anybody that knows Dr.

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Amato, he looks out for the best interest of the community.

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He certainly will do that in the role on the Finance Committee.

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This isn't a term for three years or so.

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This is just filling a void from the absence of someone being there.

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But with the recommendations of the current committee, we'll try to reach out to

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him, so if anybody has any questions, they can get those answered.

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All right, so I'm going to recess this

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committee until 6:30. Is there a motion to recess until 6:30?

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Yes.

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Motion by the chairperson. Is there a second?

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Second.

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All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye.

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All right, we're in recess until 6:30.

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Our next call to order, the appointment committee to the Oak Colony School

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Committee appointment, which would consist of the following, as the town moderator

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as chairperson, the Rochester School Committee, which is present, the school clerk

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present, the last the chair- Chairperson call every meeting to order, but then the

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select was already in session. So the chairperson will call this meeting to order.

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I'd like to call this brief meeting of the Rochester Memorial School Committee to

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order at 6:13 PM.

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All right. So our consideration for tonight is the appointment of Sharon Cruz,

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discussion of possible vote.

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Is there any discussion from the reps to--

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Any discussion from the Rochester selects?

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Is there any member of the public?

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Sir, would you please rise and state your name and address for the record?

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Hi, my name is Doug Sims, 8 Mayflower Lane, Rochester.

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I'm a teacher at Old Colony. I just want it to be known that

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we're reappointing a select board, I mean, a

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school committee member that has decided that the best tact for the negotiations is

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to no longer negotiate with us for a fair contract.

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So, we do have concerns.

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We have gone to the bargaining table.

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We've asked

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to continue negotiations, but they've taken the tact to no longer negotiate with

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the 70 teachers at Old Colony. Which you can see could

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create a lot of

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animosity

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within the building.

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I think that it should be paused. It should be looked at.

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There should be a period of time where other applicants can apply instead of just

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an automatic reappointment to the school committee.

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As far as I know, this was not a posted position.

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I don't know if it's been posted in the past.

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I have not seen any post for it requesting somebody else to fill that position.

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So I just ask that you pause, do a little research,

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see if there's another candidate that might be willing to negotiate with the

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teachers and other staff at the building to get a fair contract in place for our

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members that we deserve. And that's it. Thank you.

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Other

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members of the public.

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My name's Lance Berlet, 305 Raleigh Old Road here in Rochester, and I agree with

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Mr. Sims.

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If we have someone on school board that's not really doing what we would consider

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their job,

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and also I didn't see that post. I maybe I missed it.

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But maybe to delay this and see if there's any other applicants that may be a

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better fit, I suggest that be the way to go. Thank you.

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Any other member of the public have comment?

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Is there a motion on the appointment of Sharon Cruz to the Old Colony School

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Committee?

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I make a motion that we appoint Sharon Cruz to Old Colony School Committee.

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Is there a second from the school committee?

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I second the motion.

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Motion made to be seconded. All those in favor signify by saying aye on the

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appointment from the Rochester School Committee.

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Aye.

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Aye.

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Aye.

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Katy, are you yes?

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Aye.

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Passes five zero for Rochester School Committee. For the Rochester Select Board.

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Make a motion we appoint.

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Sharon Cruz.

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Sharon Cruz.

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Second.

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Motion's been made to be seconded. Discussion. Hearing none, we prepare to vote.

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All those in favor signify by saying aye.

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Aye.

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Aye.

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Aye.

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Those opposed. Passes unanimously.

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Appointment authority has appointed Sharon Cruz back to the Old Colony School

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Committee. Seeing no other business before this appointing authority, is there a

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motion to adjourn the appointing authority this evening?

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Motion to adjourn.

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Seconded. All in favor?

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Aye.

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Katy.

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I would like to-

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Yep

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... make a motion for, entertain a motion to adjourn this meeting of the Rochester

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Memorial School Committee.

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Second.

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Second.

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All in favor?

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Aye.

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Aye.

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We can wrap it at 6:30.

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All right.

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The Flock Cameras citizen discussion.

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Today we will be discussing Flock Cameras, which people are passionate about on

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both sides. We will begin by letting a spokesperson from a group of residents who

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sent in a letter read their statement.

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Board members may ask questions. We will take comments from the floor,

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but the chair will limit comments to two minutes and determine the number of

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residents to speak.

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Do we have somebody here that represents?

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Yes. Hi, I'm Alima Tiffany, 206 Richmond Road.

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There's a number of us that did a bunch of work on flock cameras

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and what they are. So we kind of divided what we were gonna say into three people.

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So I'd like for them to speak, and

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then I have Patty here and also Kenny that have two other issues.

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We identified five issues with flock cameras.

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I researched three, they researched the other two. So if it's okay with you, Mr.

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Chairman-

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Yes

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... we'd like for them to address their pieces, too.

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Of course.

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Otherwise, I'll just give you the basics. Thank you.

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Thanks for being here.

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Absolutely.

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And thank you for holding the coffee with a cop.

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It answered a lot of questions that we did have on the letter, but our concerns

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go beyond the town. So,

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there are two sides of the argument for automatic license plate readers, which we

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call ALPRs. The cameras are used by police departments to solve crimes.

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That's a public safety argument.

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Sorry. Can you face this way so we can hear you or speak up a little bit?

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The sound is coming back through the TV back here. Can you shut the sound off?

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Yeah, that's not-

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Turn off the PowerPoint.

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Lower the volume, yeah.

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But there's another side to the coin, privacy and civil liberties, and that's what

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I'm here to talk about. Nobody is saying technology can't help solve police crimes.

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The question is whether every useful technology should automatically be accepted

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simply because it can be useful. The camera that captures a license plate isn't

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just sitting there and saying, "Hey, this person committed a crime." It's

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00:16:21,018 --> 00:16:24,678
collecting information about vehicles moving through public spaces.

253
00:16:25,638 --> 00:16:30,229
When you build a network of cameras capable of tracking movements over time, the

254
00:16:30,288 --> 00:16:34,308
conversation becomes much bigger than catching a stolen car.

255
00:16:35,148 --> 00:16:39,768
It becomes a conversation about how much information the government should be able

256
00:16:39,828 --> 00:16:45,348
to collect about ordinary people who aren't suspected of doing anything wrong.

257
00:16:46,008 --> 00:16:50,659
It's not an anti-police argument. It's a civil liberties question.

258
00:16:51,589 --> 00:16:55,458
In our group, we identified five major areas.

259
00:16:55,909 --> 00:17:01,278
One of them, which I will address, is that ALPR is a surveillance system.

260
00:17:02,089 --> 00:17:07,758
There are at least 130,000 flock cameras that monitor roads in every

261
00:17:07,848 --> 00:17:12,618
state but Alaska. Flock told the press this summer that it operates

262
00:17:12,709 --> 00:17:18,498
120,000 cameras nationwide. A cybersecurity researcher, i.e.

263
00:17:18,589 --> 00:17:23,719
a hacker, said that Flock's nationwide reach is even bigger.

264
00:17:25,368 --> 00:17:27,168
This hacker actually talked

265
00:17:28,548 --> 00:17:34,518
to the Senate under oath to the Senate Judiciary Committee on Crime and

266
00:17:34,608 --> 00:17:35,808
Counterterrorism.

267
00:17:37,548 --> 00:17:41,328
More than 5,000 law enforcement agencies now use Flock.

268
00:17:41,538 --> 00:17:45,589
There are at least 80 police departments in Massachusetts that use it.

269
00:17:46,128 --> 00:17:50,538
It is one of the most comprehensive vehicle tracking systems ever built in a

270
00:17:50,568 --> 00:17:55,758
democracy. A single camera captures not just the plate, it captures the make, the

271
00:17:55,818 --> 00:17:59,659
model, the color, distinguishing features, bumper stickers, all of that.

272
00:18:00,138 --> 00:18:03,768
The data is stored. The database is the system

273
00:18:06,198 --> 00:18:10,098
The sharing is the system. The network is the system.

274
00:18:10,518 --> 00:18:12,498
It is searchable, and it is shared.

275
00:18:12,558 --> 00:18:17,628
It operates with no federal oversight, no state oversight, and unless you tell me

276
00:18:17,718 --> 00:18:21,828
otherwise, no town oversight except by our police department.

277
00:18:23,659 --> 00:18:27,738
Police can use this information without obtaining a warrant or judicial approval to

278
00:18:27,798 --> 00:18:30,288
make arrests to present as evidence in court.

279
00:18:30,828 --> 00:18:36,348
By embedding these cameras six at a time in small communities like Rochester,

280
00:18:36,768 --> 00:18:41,718
the government, local, state, and federal, can track a vehicle from neighborhood to

281
00:18:41,778 --> 00:18:45,948
neighborhood, East Coast to West Coast, not just highway to highway.

282
00:18:46,368 --> 00:18:49,008
It's not just six cameras in Rochester anymore.

283
00:18:49,248 --> 00:18:54,167
It is six cameras that link to thousands more to track all of us as we go about our

284
00:18:54,198 --> 00:18:55,068
daily business.

285
00:18:56,358 --> 00:19:00,348
The chief said we really have no expectation of privacy in public.

286
00:19:00,738 --> 00:19:05,118
A camera on a public road is fair game, and that's a common defense of flock

287
00:19:05,208 --> 00:19:08,718
cameras. I agree. A single look is public.

288
00:19:09,258 --> 00:19:14,958
A plate reader network builds a timestamped searchable history of where my car has

289
00:19:15,018 --> 00:19:20,718
been, retrievable weeks later, and shareable to states with no deletion at

290
00:19:20,808 --> 00:19:26,388
all. A camera seeing you isn't the same thing as a network, a surveillance

291
00:19:26,478 --> 00:19:30,528
network, remembering where it saw you and when it saw you.

292
00:19:31,038 --> 00:19:36,498
Just last week, a district court federal judge in Oklahoma explained why the

293
00:19:36,589 --> 00:19:41,178
expectation of privacy becomes more complicated when thousands of cameras

294
00:19:41,238 --> 00:19:45,409
collecting everybody's movements, storing them, and connecting them together allow

295
00:19:45,468 --> 00:19:47,868
police to reconstruct where someone has traveled.

296
00:19:48,649 --> 00:19:53,448
Judge Sarah Hale ruled that an officer's use of ALPR systems to search a woman's

297
00:19:53,508 --> 00:19:59,118
historical movements was an unconstitutional warrantless search under the Fourth

298
00:19:59,178 --> 00:20:03,138
Amendment. Oh, by the way, the woman that they pulled over had 81 pounds of

299
00:20:03,198 --> 00:20:07,188
methamphetamine in her car, but that was all tossed out because the search was

300
00:20:07,248 --> 00:20:08,478
unconstitutional.

301
00:20:10,608 --> 00:20:14,748
So why did Congress approve a nationwide surveillance program in this form?

302
00:20:15,378 --> 00:20:17,208
Because that's what it actually is.

303
00:20:17,418 --> 00:20:21,798
It's been backdoored in the form of local and state agencies using government

304
00:20:21,888 --> 00:20:25,728
funds, usually federal grant money, to install them with the

305
00:20:25,818 --> 00:20:31,608
inherent ability to have data collected and stored in one place and

306
00:20:31,668 --> 00:20:32,448
networked together.

307
00:20:33,888 --> 00:20:38,448
So the second point I wanted to make was there is really no control over what

308
00:20:38,508 --> 00:20:40,728
happens to the data that is collected.

309
00:20:41,508 --> 00:20:45,558
Police departments that use Flock and seek to protect the rights of Massachusetts

310
00:20:45,649 --> 00:20:50,358
residents from out-of-state or federal scrutiny must turn off information sharing

311
00:20:50,448 --> 00:20:54,708
settings authorizing these entities from searching the data they collect.

312
00:20:54,768 --> 00:20:59,748
And Chief Lozada has told us that, yes, they do not share with out-of-state

313
00:21:01,608 --> 00:21:07,248
requesters. But even when departments opt to restrict this sharing,

314
00:21:07,938 --> 00:21:10,938
they may not actually be protecting people's privacies.

315
00:21:11,868 --> 00:21:16,488
Public records reviewed by the ACLU of Massachusetts, the template user agreement,

316
00:21:16,698 --> 00:21:21,047
which our police department has signed, gives Flock a non-exclusive...

317
00:21:21,947 --> 00:21:23,688
This is a quote from that

318
00:21:25,308 --> 00:21:30,468
template agreement, "A non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, royalty-free right and

319
00:21:30,558 --> 00:21:34,399
license to use and distribute

320
00:21:35,628 --> 00:21:39,858
aggregated data to improve and enhance the services for other development,

321
00:21:40,368 --> 00:21:44,899
diagnostic, corrective purposes, other Flock offerings, and crime prevention

322
00:21:45,018 --> 00:21:50,149
efforts, and to disclose the agency data to enable law enforcement monitoring

323
00:21:50,238 --> 00:21:55,488
against law enforcement hotlists, as well as provide footage search access to law

324
00:21:55,548 --> 00:21:58,308
enforcement for investigative purposes only."

325
00:21:59,928 --> 00:22:02,028
So what that means in practice is troubling.

326
00:22:02,328 --> 00:22:07,458
Even when our police department has chosen, in Flock's application data, to

327
00:22:07,518 --> 00:22:13,128
restrict access to its own officers, the template agreement gives Flock the right

328
00:22:13,188 --> 00:22:18,678
to disclose the local police department's data to both law enforcement nationwide

329
00:22:18,738 --> 00:22:21,468
and federal agencies for investigative purposes.

330
00:22:22,339 --> 00:22:27,138
And just on the 23rd of September, Ben Jordan, a hacker, testified in front of the

331
00:22:27,228 --> 00:22:30,378
Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Counterterrorism.

332
00:22:30,978 --> 00:22:36,678
The hearing centered on ALPRs and AI-powered cameras that local police like

333
00:22:36,768 --> 00:22:39,528
ours install on street corners in their towns.

334
00:22:40,308 --> 00:22:44,358
Jordan testified that the hardware is fundamentally compromised.

335
00:22:44,718 --> 00:22:50,089
He testified the cameras run on modified, outdated software lacking basic federal

336
00:22:50,149 --> 00:22:55,308
cybersecurity standards. He exposed how researchers can hack the most common Flock

337
00:22:55,368 --> 00:23:00,348
camera model in under a minute simply by pressing a button three times.

338
00:23:01,248 --> 00:23:05,659
He detailed finding unprotected administrative interfaces that allowed him to

339
00:23:05,718 --> 00:23:10,248
remotely view and modify a month's worth of streaming footage from across the

340
00:23:10,308 --> 00:23:15,558
country. Most alarmingly, Jordan noted that active law enforcement accounts from

341
00:23:15,649 --> 00:23:20,598
Flock databases were found for sale by a Russian vendor on the dark web.

342
00:23:20,958 --> 00:23:25,068
All of this was said under oath to a Senate judiciary committee.

343
00:23:27,378 --> 00:23:30,798
So I was going to talk about its abuse by users, but

344
00:23:32,089 --> 00:23:36,828
our police department really does have a good policy in place that prevents

345
00:23:37,098 --> 00:23:43,068
officers in the RPD from accessing the thing to look for an ex

346
00:23:43,218 --> 00:23:43,458
or

347
00:23:45,258 --> 00:23:48,798
someone dating their ex. So that's all well and good.

348
00:23:49,698 --> 00:23:52,159
But what happens when somebody from

349
00:23:53,718 --> 00:23:59,149
outside of Rochester wants to track someone in Rochester

350
00:23:59,839 --> 00:24:04,728
and stalk them? We know that just in New Bedford, there were two

351
00:24:04,818 --> 00:24:10,339
police officers, I believe, lost their jobs because they used the Flock system

352
00:24:10,428 --> 00:24:13,968
to track their significant others who were now exes.

353
00:24:14,748 --> 00:24:18,409
So in conclusion, I'm really not here to oppose safety.

354
00:24:18,888 --> 00:24:22,788
I'm here to oppose the gradual erosion of our constitutional liberties.

355
00:24:23,268 --> 00:24:25,098
Our freedoms are never taken at once.

356
00:24:25,728 --> 00:24:30,438
They are taken one step at a time, and each of those steps is presented as being

357
00:24:30,497 --> 00:24:33,318
justified, reasonable, or necessary.

358
00:24:34,308 --> 00:24:35,177
Freedom for safety,

359
00:24:37,458 --> 00:24:43,098
privacy for convenience, liberty for efficiency, until one day we turn around and

360
00:24:43,159 --> 00:24:46,339
we feel like what we have traded cannot be reclaimed.

361
00:24:46,998 --> 00:24:49,728
I don't doubt that all of us want a safer town.

362
00:24:50,568 --> 00:24:56,178
What I do doubt is that we did not fully consider what was at stake in pursuit of

363
00:24:56,238 --> 00:25:00,318
that goal. This is not just about six cameras in Rochester.

364
00:25:00,649 --> 00:25:02,988
This is about constitutional stewardship.

365
00:25:03,888 --> 00:25:08,928
All of us in this room on this side of the table are here for different reasons.

366
00:25:09,318 --> 00:25:11,568
We all feel differently about the schools.

367
00:25:11,688 --> 00:25:15,168
We feel differently about development, taxes, and these cameras.

368
00:25:15,528 --> 00:25:17,899
And we can disagree on all these issues.

369
00:25:18,798 --> 00:25:24,288
Before we are Democrats or Republicans, homeowners or cranberry farmers, we on this

370
00:25:24,318 --> 00:25:26,208
side of the table are We the People.

371
00:25:26,958 --> 00:25:29,839
Those are not just the first few words of the Constitution.

372
00:25:30,258 --> 00:25:33,589
Those are a reminder of who the government was created to serve.

373
00:25:34,638 --> 00:25:39,228
As We the People, we have a different obligation to the Constitution than you.

374
00:25:40,068 --> 00:25:43,669
We did not take a vote to support the Constitution. You did.

375
00:25:44,358 --> 00:25:49,758
The authority you exercise from that side of the table was entrusted to you from

376
00:25:49,818 --> 00:25:53,688
this side of the table by We the People. That's what stewardship means.

377
00:25:56,238 --> 00:25:58,669
You are not merely administrators of our town.

378
00:25:58,758 --> 00:26:01,458
You are stewards of our constitutional liberties.

379
00:26:02,419 --> 00:26:05,779
As such, you must remember constitutional limits were not written

380
00:26:07,998 --> 00:26:10,518
because we did not trust today's public servants.

381
00:26:10,608 --> 00:26:13,339
They were written because we cannot know tomorrow's.

382
00:26:13,788 --> 00:26:17,268
The Constitution was not written as a government rule book for the people.

383
00:26:17,389 --> 00:26:20,389
It was written as a restraint over its government.

384
00:26:20,899 --> 00:26:25,788
One day you will return to this side of the table, and when you do, the liberties

385
00:26:25,878 --> 00:26:30,318
you have preserved will protect your families as they protect mine.

386
00:26:30,858 --> 00:26:34,158
We the People is not just how the Constitution begins.

387
00:26:34,639 --> 00:26:39,678
It's a reminder of the responsibility we have to never surrender the freedoms that

388
00:26:39,678 --> 00:26:44,478
are entrusted to us and to preserve the liberties for those who come after us.

389
00:26:44,928 --> 00:26:46,008
Thank you for your time.

390
00:26:59,928 --> 00:27:04,308
Chief, how about you address the questions-

391
00:27:04,368 --> 00:27:04,608
Absolutely

392
00:27:04,639 --> 00:27:05,748
... that they had?

393
00:27:05,868 --> 00:27:10,308
So there was a lot in that. I know. And I only did three minutes.

394
00:27:10,399 --> 00:27:11,658
So I'm going to try to

395
00:27:13,368 --> 00:27:17,568
explain the cameras the best I can, especially for the people that were not here

396
00:27:18,139 --> 00:27:19,998
for the coffee with the chief.

397
00:27:20,913 --> 00:27:24,093
So we deployed the cameras sometime in March.

398
00:27:24,154 --> 00:27:25,503
I want to say towards the end of March.

399
00:27:25,593 --> 00:27:30,843
We had a LPR policy and procedure in place before we ever deployed them.

400
00:27:31,264 --> 00:27:33,243
I'm sorry, what does LPR mean?

401
00:27:33,363 --> 00:27:36,093
Automated license plate reader, ALPR.

402
00:27:37,024 --> 00:27:42,333
These ALPRs are not speed cameras. They don't check your speed.

403
00:27:43,143 --> 00:27:46,863
All they do is take a picture of your license plate and your car. Right?

404
00:27:47,343 --> 00:27:51,183
Whatever your license plate is on, it's going to take a picture of that plate and

405
00:27:51,214 --> 00:27:54,333
the vehicle you're driving. If you have bumper stickers, yeah, it takes a picture

406
00:27:54,363 --> 00:27:57,003
of that. It does not run your information.

407
00:27:58,203 --> 00:28:01,623
So all Flock has is a picture of your plate and a picture of your car.

408
00:28:02,133 --> 00:28:07,443
We then have to go into CJIS, which is a computer system that is monitored by the

409
00:28:07,593 --> 00:28:12,964
FBI and NCIC, and we have to run that plate ourselves to get your

410
00:28:13,024 --> 00:28:17,464
information. So if I hop out in my police car right now and go through the parking

411
00:28:17,493 --> 00:28:21,843
lot, I can run everybody's plate for no reason at all and get your date of birth,

412
00:28:21,964 --> 00:28:25,623
where you live, your Social Security number. I can do that for any reason at all.

413
00:28:26,073 --> 00:28:30,154
If I want to use Flock or one of my officers, there's only a few officers that are

414
00:28:30,183 --> 00:28:34,953
allowed to run the program. If they want to use it, they have to have a law

415
00:28:35,014 --> 00:28:38,643
enforcement purpose to use it. They can't just use it for any reason.

416
00:28:39,393 --> 00:28:43,233
So there's a dropdown screen that you put in the reason why you're looking at the

417
00:28:43,264 --> 00:28:47,764
car, whether it's a stolen motor vehicle, wanted person, under narcotics

418
00:28:47,794 --> 00:28:50,223
investigation, terrorism. There's a whole bunch of different

419
00:28:52,024 --> 00:28:56,823
dropdowns that you could use, but you have to have a law enforcement reason to run

420
00:28:56,853 --> 00:29:00,423
it through Flock. So that's the difference between me hopping in my cruiser right

421
00:29:00,483 --> 00:29:04,353
now and just randomly running everybody's plate in the parking lot or driving down

422
00:29:04,383 --> 00:29:07,413
the street and running your plate. I don't have to have a reason to do that.

423
00:29:07,893 --> 00:29:13,233
With Flock, you do. So that differentiates what we have in our police cars and

424
00:29:13,294 --> 00:29:13,743
Flock.

425
00:29:14,973 --> 00:29:20,703
Flock, as I said before, is not being used to track normal, regular,

426
00:29:20,823 --> 00:29:22,593
everyday citizens who are not breaking the law.

427
00:29:23,103 --> 00:29:28,353
We have to have a reason to put your plate into Flock and run, which is either you

428
00:29:28,383 --> 00:29:34,233
committed a crime, we're looking into you for drug dealing, maybe there's a missing

429
00:29:34,294 --> 00:29:35,913
person, we're trying to find their car.

430
00:29:36,183 --> 00:29:39,573
We've already used it numerous times, and it's helped us save a life.

431
00:29:40,923 --> 00:29:45,333
We recovered somebody who was abducted, numerous drug cases, numerous thefts.

432
00:29:45,633 --> 00:29:49,053
This past Friday, we had a stolen motor vehicle from Wareham.

433
00:29:49,353 --> 00:29:53,253
We put it in our Flock system as a hotlist. It came back through town.

434
00:29:53,313 --> 00:29:57,544
Our officers were able then to get behind the vehicle, which was stopped in Wareham

435
00:29:57,603 --> 00:30:02,044
without incident. So they got their car back, and two drug dealers were actually

436
00:30:02,103 --> 00:30:03,333
arrested inside the vehicle.

437
00:30:06,214 --> 00:30:10,893
So with the data, we have the cloud data. It's our data, right?

438
00:30:11,253 --> 00:30:15,693
We don't disseminate it. If somebody hacks our data, right, what they're getting is

439
00:30:15,753 --> 00:30:18,483
they're getting license plates and vehicles.

440
00:30:18,514 --> 00:30:20,823
They're not getting anybody's personal information.

441
00:30:21,544 --> 00:30:23,973
All they're getting is a picture of a plate and a vehicle.

442
00:30:24,363 --> 00:30:26,794
So if somebody hacked our system, things can be hacked.

443
00:30:26,853 --> 00:30:30,693
It happens all the time, right? So if somebody hacked our system, that's what

444
00:30:30,723 --> 00:30:32,822
they're getting. They're not getting your information.

445
00:30:32,853 --> 00:30:35,464
They're getting a license plate and a vehicle.

446
00:30:37,173 --> 00:30:38,404
Does that make sense to everybody?

447
00:30:39,243 --> 00:30:41,553
Does anybody have any questions on that while I'm standing up here?

448
00:30:41,764 --> 00:30:44,103
I do, but I'd like to address it in my statement.

449
00:30:44,163 --> 00:30:45,933
And it looks like you have a big statement, too.

450
00:30:45,993 --> 00:30:49,654
So can I just ask you maybe some questions, and you can go back and forth with me

451
00:30:49,683 --> 00:30:50,283
with your statement?

452
00:30:50,404 --> 00:30:55,743
Point of order. So it is past 6:30, as you perceive that, but I just would like to

453
00:30:55,803 --> 00:31:01,113
get this through if the chairperson would so allow before this is a big discussion.

454
00:31:02,464 --> 00:31:03,904
Dr. Milo's not available.

455
00:31:03,964 --> 00:31:07,533
No, he's not. Yeah, he's not. Just postpone that.

456
00:31:07,983 --> 00:31:10,113
I have to do it. It's just a point.

457
00:31:11,044 --> 00:31:12,214
Then we'll just postpone.

458
00:31:13,413 --> 00:31:17,133
All right. So there was a motion to appoint. Do we second it?

459
00:31:17,703 --> 00:31:18,964
Do you want to rescind your motion?

460
00:31:19,983 --> 00:31:23,133
I will make a motion to rescind the motion.

461
00:31:23,613 --> 00:31:25,953
Motion to appoint. Is it seconded?

462
00:31:25,983 --> 00:31:26,643
Second.

463
00:31:26,703 --> 00:31:28,353
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.

464
00:31:28,714 --> 00:31:29,133
Aye. Aye.

465
00:31:29,643 --> 00:31:35,313
So make a motion through the town administrator. Can you find out Mr.

466
00:31:35,373 --> 00:31:36,573
Milo's next availability?

467
00:31:36,783 --> 00:31:36,904
Yeah.

468
00:31:36,964 --> 00:31:38,973
If mind me, does not have anything pressing.

469
00:31:39,303 --> 00:31:41,433
It might be an off-cycle meeting.

470
00:31:41,493 --> 00:31:41,583
Yep.

471
00:31:41,613 --> 00:31:43,473
It may not be the next select board meeting.

472
00:31:43,503 --> 00:31:47,733
Maybe we'll set up a Zoom, do it in person, do it as a freestanding one.

473
00:31:48,063 --> 00:31:49,413
But that's completely fine.

474
00:31:50,943 --> 00:31:54,843
Just to be clear, it has nothing to do against the doctor.

475
00:31:55,294 --> 00:31:55,473
Okay.

476
00:31:55,533 --> 00:31:58,774
We just want to make sure that everybody who gets appointed has been appointed

477
00:31:58,833 --> 00:32:02,883
under the same rules and processes. That's all.

478
00:32:03,514 --> 00:32:04,863
Same role I went through.

479
00:32:05,253 --> 00:32:07,833
Yeah. Everybody who's been on the committee has gone through it.

480
00:32:08,223 --> 00:32:09,183
Thank you.

481
00:32:09,423 --> 00:32:12,093
So is there a motion to postpone?

482
00:32:13,113 --> 00:32:15,663
I will make a motion to postpone the reappointment-

483
00:32:15,904 --> 00:32:18,274
Appointment until the next advertised-

484
00:32:18,933 --> 00:32:21,333
Until the next advertised select meeting.

485
00:32:22,503 --> 00:32:23,014
And I'll second that.

486
00:32:23,464 --> 00:32:23,943
Second.

487
00:32:24,093 --> 00:32:25,593
All in favor, signify by saying aye.

488
00:32:25,983 --> 00:32:26,493
Aye. Aye.

489
00:32:35,373 --> 00:32:36,483
Thank you.

490
00:32:36,514 --> 00:32:42,063
So back to what we were doing, I think we should just respond to the

491
00:32:43,053 --> 00:32:44,044
speakers as they speak.

492
00:32:44,404 --> 00:32:44,553
Okay.

493
00:32:44,613 --> 00:32:47,433
So if we want to take it further, we'll just wait for the next round, and then

494
00:32:47,703 --> 00:32:53,014
we'll answer those questions. But I'm just going to follow up with the chief on

495
00:32:53,373 --> 00:32:57,303
some of the things you said as far as our stewardship to the town sitting on the

496
00:32:57,363 --> 00:33:01,503
side of the table. It's something that I take very serious.

497
00:33:02,583 --> 00:33:06,873
Part of the Flock cameras, I do have a little history in public safety and

498
00:33:06,933 --> 00:33:10,593
policing. A few things that you'd mentioned was hackers.

499
00:33:11,313 --> 00:33:15,663
And I don't put any faith in anybody that's purposefully trying to

500
00:33:16,893 --> 00:33:20,733
hack anything of ours for the purpose of our information.

501
00:33:21,363 --> 00:33:26,794
The town servers try to get hacked, the hospitals get hacked, banks get hacked,

502
00:33:27,303 --> 00:33:31,083
everyone gets hacked. And the amount of information that you're getting out of

503
00:33:31,143 --> 00:33:36,483
those type of things being hacked is far more important than a license plate and

504
00:33:36,544 --> 00:33:37,473
some bumper stickers.

505
00:33:38,823 --> 00:33:39,393
The other thing,

506
00:33:41,553 --> 00:33:46,772
everyone in this room probably has a smartphone and a smartwatch, and

507
00:33:47,373 --> 00:33:50,733
almost every house in town probably has a Ring camera on your door.

508
00:33:51,393 --> 00:33:53,882
There's actually one right on the corner of

509
00:33:55,143 --> 00:33:59,464
105 and Mary's Pond Road. The people that live at the house actually post a picture

510
00:33:59,493 --> 00:34:02,464
of your vehicle driving through the stop signs because they're sick of people

511
00:34:02,493 --> 00:34:05,223
running the stop sign, so they use their Ring camera and post it on Facebook.

512
00:34:05,253 --> 00:34:08,944
And there it goes, like, "Jim Smith just drove through the..." With their Ring

513
00:34:09,003 --> 00:34:11,074
camera, they're posting you on the internet.

514
00:34:12,214 --> 00:34:14,074
But your cell phone, everywhere you go is tracked.

515
00:34:14,163 --> 00:34:18,093
Your speed's tracked, how fast you drove, where you went, how long you were there,

516
00:34:18,603 --> 00:34:21,753
just right here, smartphone, and it can be hacked.

517
00:34:21,933 --> 00:34:25,113
Does that mean they should have a Flock camera at that intersection?

518
00:34:25,593 --> 00:34:25,983
I'm sorry?

519
00:34:27,393 --> 00:34:29,194
To catch the people going through the stop sign.

520
00:34:29,373 --> 00:34:33,483
No, this is just a Ring camera. The purpose of what I'm saying to you is, you're

521
00:34:33,513 --> 00:34:36,123
not just being watched by six Flock cameras in town.

522
00:34:36,274 --> 00:34:38,824
Well, if it's an issue, though, that would be a place to put one.

523
00:34:38,883 --> 00:34:42,093
Well, Flock cameras, they're not there for speeding purposes.

524
00:34:42,123 --> 00:34:44,404
They're there for investigatory purposes.

525
00:34:44,493 --> 00:34:47,223
You wouldn't be able to use it for a stop sign violation.

526
00:34:47,553 --> 00:34:52,053
That's not the purpose of that tool. So you wouldn't be able to use that.

527
00:34:52,714 --> 00:34:58,443
So back to what I was saying, when Flock came to us or it was approached to

528
00:34:58,533 --> 00:35:03,273
us, you mentioned no expectation of privacy in the public.

529
00:35:04,023 --> 00:35:07,053
Everywhere we go, people have their phones and they're taking pictures, and you're

530
00:35:07,083 --> 00:35:10,833
being... I went to a concert, and everyone has a video of everybody at the concert.

531
00:35:11,913 --> 00:35:16,173
Everywhere you go in public, people are using their tools, and you're being picked

532
00:35:16,233 --> 00:35:17,373
up whether you know it or not.

533
00:35:18,993 --> 00:35:23,373
That's the technology, right? Look at AI we have now, all the AI capabilities.

534
00:35:23,433 --> 00:35:26,943
You can drive by, and AI's going to say, "Adam Murphy just drove by at 2:32 in the

535
00:35:27,003 --> 00:35:28,773
afternoon." AI's going to see that.

536
00:35:29,913 --> 00:35:34,053
And it's not specific to Flock, but it's just when we're in public and you drive

537
00:35:34,113 --> 00:35:36,783
through town, some of the Flock cameras that you're speaking of, they're actually

538
00:35:36,813 --> 00:35:40,053
on traffic lights. You don't even know they're there because they're up on top of a

539
00:35:40,083 --> 00:35:42,873
traffic light, and you drive through it, and you have no idea.

540
00:35:43,383 --> 00:35:48,303
In Rochester, some of the complaints we received were like, "There's these giant

541
00:35:48,363 --> 00:35:51,963
black poles with solars." One of them was in front of a traffic light, I think,

542
00:35:52,023 --> 00:35:56,553
impeding traffic light. So there were some issues that we tried to address.

543
00:35:57,123 --> 00:36:00,993
We had several meetings with the chief to discuss who has access to it.

544
00:36:01,053 --> 00:36:04,953
You mentioned you weren't going to bring up abuse of the Flock cameras.

545
00:36:04,983 --> 00:36:07,293
Well, I'm going to bring it up because we all see the news.

546
00:36:07,713 --> 00:36:10,863
We saw the New Bedford police. People don't have their jobs because they

547
00:36:10,953 --> 00:36:15,574
inappropriately went on the Flock camera, they found their significant other, and

548
00:36:15,574 --> 00:36:19,143
they tracked them. Well, I think the problem lies a lot further with that person

549
00:36:19,203 --> 00:36:22,324
other than the Flock camera because obviously they had something going on, and they

550
00:36:22,353 --> 00:36:25,203
probably abused their mobile data terminal.

551
00:36:25,443 --> 00:36:27,843
They have computers in their cars that they have access to

552
00:36:29,013 --> 00:36:31,623
Every single thing about every one of us.

553
00:36:32,133 --> 00:36:35,433
And the chief mentioned how the access flock does a drop-down.

554
00:36:35,793 --> 00:36:39,453
Well, police officers can go into your-- run your plate, find out who you are.

555
00:36:39,873 --> 00:36:43,533
They can run your BOP. They can see what you did, unless it's sealed.

556
00:36:43,833 --> 00:36:48,003
They know everything about you, how many speeding tickets, how many car accidents.

557
00:36:48,393 --> 00:36:52,353
The information is endless. So somebody that's abusing power, they shouldn't be a

558
00:36:52,383 --> 00:36:56,163
police officer to begin with, never mind just abusing power with flock, because

559
00:36:56,223 --> 00:36:59,163
they have so much information that they have the privy to.

560
00:36:59,493 --> 00:37:02,343
Those aren't the type of people we want policing Rochester anyway.

561
00:37:03,003 --> 00:37:06,093
And that's not the issues that we have here in Rochester.

562
00:37:08,283 --> 00:37:12,154
And that's why I wanted to make sure that we had a solid policy and procedure on

563
00:37:12,154 --> 00:37:12,243
it.

564
00:37:13,473 --> 00:37:17,582
Originally, we had the flock cameras at 31 days. Now it's seven-day retention.

565
00:37:17,673 --> 00:37:21,003
So it's only seven days that we keep the material, because we figured that's a big

566
00:37:21,033 --> 00:37:25,173
enough window for us to do an immediate investigation if we need to do something

567
00:37:25,203 --> 00:37:25,773
like that.

568
00:37:27,753 --> 00:37:32,313
And there's only a few people at the PD that are authorized to use the flock.

569
00:37:32,763 --> 00:37:36,633
And I audit that every month. I keep good track of it.

570
00:37:37,413 --> 00:37:37,473
We didn't have a problem with that.

571
00:37:37,473 --> 00:37:37,683
Yeah.

572
00:37:38,013 --> 00:37:39,123
That's why I really didn't address it.

573
00:37:39,154 --> 00:37:39,453
Yep.

574
00:37:40,324 --> 00:37:45,363
But if someone holding an iPhone or a sidewalk, like you're quoting a car and a

575
00:37:45,423 --> 00:37:49,713
plate number, but they can't type that into their phone and search for previous

576
00:37:49,743 --> 00:37:53,553
sightings of the vehicle scattered all across the nation. There's differences.

577
00:37:53,613 --> 00:37:54,843
There's a different location.

578
00:37:54,904 --> 00:37:57,333
Well, so E-ZPass does it too, when you think about it.

579
00:37:57,363 --> 00:38:01,143
So if you have an E-ZPass in your car, right, and you go through and say you didn't

580
00:38:01,173 --> 00:38:05,733
pay your E-ZPass bill or you just go through, all those cameras at every toll

581
00:38:05,762 --> 00:38:08,643
throughout the nation, they take a picture of your plate and-- Hold on one second,

582
00:38:08,673 --> 00:38:11,343
let me just finish. They take a picture of your plate, and they have your

583
00:38:11,373 --> 00:38:14,733
information because then they send you a bill. So they have that.

584
00:38:15,063 --> 00:38:19,023
Well, even further than that, Rhode Island, the state of Rhode Island, if you run a

585
00:38:19,053 --> 00:38:20,404
red light, you get the ticket in the mail.

586
00:38:20,463 --> 00:38:20,883
Yeah.

587
00:38:20,943 --> 00:38:23,043
How much do these cameras cost?

588
00:38:23,133 --> 00:38:24,423
So we have them on a grant right now.

589
00:38:24,453 --> 00:38:25,143
We have them on a grant.

590
00:38:25,503 --> 00:38:26,463
So they're free now.

591
00:38:26,943 --> 00:38:28,833
Right now they're free, yes. And we're not going to-

592
00:38:29,793 --> 00:38:32,763
So the flock group does it, they can get these cameras installed everywhere.

593
00:38:32,793 --> 00:38:36,393
And if we don't have the money anymore, if we don't get the grant to keep funding

594
00:38:36,423 --> 00:38:39,603
them, we won't keep them up because we don't have the funding in town right now for

595
00:38:39,603 --> 00:38:39,633
them.

596
00:38:39,663 --> 00:38:41,824
Who gave the grants out? Because they definitely won.

597
00:38:41,853 --> 00:38:43,113
They want the surveillance.

598
00:38:43,233 --> 00:38:44,673
So back to your cell phone.

599
00:38:45,904 --> 00:38:48,243
Just hold on. Just address it through the chair, okay?

600
00:38:48,303 --> 00:38:50,913
So we're just going to keep the conversation going.

601
00:38:50,943 --> 00:38:53,583
But if you want to speak, just address it through the chair, and he'll recognize

602
00:38:53,643 --> 00:38:56,253
you. But back to the cell phone. The reason why I mentioned-

603
00:38:56,253 --> 00:38:56,253
I meant-

604
00:38:56,373 --> 00:39:00,843
Hold on. The reason why I mentioned your cell phone is how many investigations does

605
00:39:00,873 --> 00:39:03,663
the police department use when they're looking for somebody, whether they're

606
00:39:03,723 --> 00:39:09,243
elderly, that are missing? They call up Verizon, and

607
00:39:09,273 --> 00:39:12,783
they track your information from your cell phone.

608
00:39:13,053 --> 00:39:16,563
Using the same process as we use them for flock, we use it for your cell phone.

609
00:39:16,953 --> 00:39:18,513
So we can ping your cell phones-

610
00:39:18,513 --> 00:39:18,993
Except you need a judge's warrant.

611
00:39:19,083 --> 00:39:21,213
No, I don't need a judge's warrant.

612
00:39:21,243 --> 00:39:21,574
You don't need a judge's warrant.

613
00:39:21,633 --> 00:39:26,223
To do that, I need an exigent circumstance or emergency situation that I explain to

614
00:39:26,253 --> 00:39:28,893
the phone company, and then they immediately start pinging your phone.

615
00:39:29,673 --> 00:39:31,743
And basically, a supervisor on the police department-

616
00:39:31,743 --> 00:39:31,773
Correct

617
00:39:31,803 --> 00:39:36,063
... has the fax over a request to the phone company, which then in return, it gives

618
00:39:36,093 --> 00:39:39,063
you the information. They ping your phone, and they can track you with your cell

619
00:39:39,123 --> 00:39:39,273
phone.

620
00:39:39,303 --> 00:39:39,663
Right.

621
00:39:39,753 --> 00:39:40,833
Just the cell phone company.

622
00:39:41,763 --> 00:39:42,032
Yes.

623
00:39:42,483 --> 00:39:43,353
Just one second.

624
00:39:43,353 --> 00:39:46,953
But the cell phone company can't pull DNA. He can.

625
00:39:47,013 --> 00:39:48,843
If you committed a crime.

626
00:39:48,904 --> 00:39:51,513
Yeah, you can turn off some of the features on your cell phone, though.

627
00:39:53,163 --> 00:39:53,733
Mm-hmm.

628
00:39:53,824 --> 00:39:54,873
I'm not aware of that, but you can.

629
00:39:54,873 --> 00:39:56,223
There's still a way to find you, even if you turn it off.

630
00:39:56,283 --> 00:39:59,853
Even if your location is off, the police can still be able to track it.

631
00:39:59,853 --> 00:40:00,363
Even if you turn it off, they can find you.

632
00:40:00,543 --> 00:40:02,883
Yep. So that was to show you have something in the back that was-

633
00:40:03,574 --> 00:40:06,273
There was just a lot that happened. You can just keep going.

634
00:40:06,574 --> 00:40:07,053
Oh, okay.

635
00:40:10,143 --> 00:40:13,863
I want to know why the residents weren't involved in the decision to bring the

636
00:40:13,923 --> 00:40:16,623
flock into town, because I had no idea they were here.

637
00:40:16,923 --> 00:40:20,013
And then all of a sudden they're here, and then I'm hearing they're going to put

638
00:40:20,074 --> 00:40:21,783
one across the street from my house.

639
00:40:22,503 --> 00:40:25,293
And then what, so they're going to watch me 24 hours a day?

640
00:40:26,283 --> 00:40:27,243
Are you committing crimes?

641
00:40:27,693 --> 00:40:32,373
No, I'm not. But I live in a house, and I go back and forth. It records everybody.

642
00:40:32,433 --> 00:40:33,363
It doesn't just say-

643
00:40:33,393 --> 00:40:35,103
That's not funny.

644
00:40:35,163 --> 00:40:37,743
It's not just criminals. It records everybody.

645
00:40:37,923 --> 00:40:38,133
If I-

646
00:40:38,643 --> 00:40:40,143
I'm a law-abiding citizen.

647
00:40:40,173 --> 00:40:44,313
If I could just speak on that. So I've been doing this job for 25 years.

648
00:40:44,373 --> 00:40:49,113
So every time we get a tool, we don't necessarily ask the public if it's all right

649
00:40:49,143 --> 00:40:52,383
for law enforcement to get this tool that's going to assist us.

650
00:40:53,253 --> 00:40:54,783
That's just not something that we do.

651
00:40:54,993 --> 00:40:58,023
Well, can I ask a question? Were you approached by flock or did the city approach

652
00:40:58,023 --> 00:40:58,023
you?

653
00:40:58,113 --> 00:40:58,503
I was not.

654
00:40:58,533 --> 00:40:59,013
Or did you reach out to them?

655
00:40:59,074 --> 00:41:03,003
I was not. I've used this flock system in previous PDs I've worked for, and it's

656
00:41:03,033 --> 00:41:03,154
helped-

657
00:41:03,483 --> 00:41:06,483
So you reached out to them to get a grant to get the flock cameras inside?

658
00:41:06,543 --> 00:41:08,133
We applied for a grant to get the flock cameras.

659
00:41:08,163 --> 00:41:09,813
Did this go before the select committee?

660
00:41:10,203 --> 00:41:10,593
Did not.

661
00:41:11,074 --> 00:41:12,213
Why wasn't that happening?

662
00:41:12,753 --> 00:41:16,324
Because like I just said, every time we get a tool, we don't go in front of the

663
00:41:16,383 --> 00:41:16,953
select committee.

664
00:41:17,013 --> 00:41:20,343
But this affects everyone in the town. It's not just the criminals.

665
00:41:20,404 --> 00:41:25,143
It's everybody in the town. And we pay tax dollars to pay your salary.

666
00:41:25,203 --> 00:41:25,833
We do, yeah.

667
00:41:26,013 --> 00:41:30,003
If I'm not mistaken, the flock cameras are on public property.

668
00:41:30,273 --> 00:41:34,353
And we also pay taxes for you to maintain those pieces of property, such as the

669
00:41:34,413 --> 00:41:39,993
library, right? So don't you think that the people of the town should have had a

670
00:41:40,053 --> 00:41:44,193
vote on this to see whether or not we-- to get-- And this should have been

671
00:41:44,343 --> 00:41:48,453
addressed in a town meeting where someone could have presented a pro side of it.

672
00:41:48,843 --> 00:41:50,553
You know, Russ, you could present your side.

673
00:41:50,883 --> 00:41:50,883
Yeah.

674
00:41:50,943 --> 00:41:55,053
Someone else could present the other side and let the townspeople present at the

675
00:41:55,113 --> 00:41:59,404
meeting, who are taxpayers, make this decision as to whether or not we want these

676
00:41:59,433 --> 00:42:00,183
in our town.

677
00:42:00,453 --> 00:42:02,673
And I'll be honest, I could have done that. Absolutely.

678
00:42:03,904 --> 00:42:04,923
Because I did what I-

679
00:42:05,074 --> 00:42:05,763
It's the service of the community

680
00:42:05,793 --> 00:42:09,813
... because I did what I thought was best after doing this job for 25 years and

681
00:42:09,904 --> 00:42:13,803
using it numerous different times to help solve crimes and save people's lives.

682
00:42:13,863 --> 00:42:15,243
So that's why I chose to do that.

683
00:42:15,243 --> 00:42:15,904
Mike, can I address that?

684
00:42:15,963 --> 00:42:16,203
Yeah.

685
00:42:16,743 --> 00:42:16,923
We

686
00:42:18,423 --> 00:42:21,483
apply for many grants, many grants.

687
00:42:21,663 --> 00:42:22,563
Sure.

688
00:42:22,623 --> 00:42:23,883
And most of them,

689
00:42:25,263 --> 00:42:29,733
if I'm not incorrect, we don't go to town meeting.

690
00:42:30,693 --> 00:42:35,583
We apply for the grant. If we receive the grant, we're in the process of

691
00:42:36,363 --> 00:42:38,883
applying for a new fire truck.

692
00:42:40,173 --> 00:42:41,973
But so the townspeople pay for the fire truck.

693
00:42:42,033 --> 00:42:46,683
No, because the grant is not the town's money.

694
00:42:47,463 --> 00:42:50,373
It either comes from the federal, state.

695
00:42:51,574 --> 00:42:54,243
It's not coming out of the town's coffers.

696
00:42:54,483 --> 00:42:57,723
But is it sometimes in conjunction with taxpayers' dollars?

697
00:42:57,783 --> 00:43:02,343
Because I know I've paid in the past for police vehicles, fire vehicles.

698
00:43:02,373 --> 00:43:06,933
Hold on one second. So to your point, anything that we spend taxpayer money on has

699
00:43:06,963 --> 00:43:08,523
to go to town meeting. Anything.

700
00:43:09,753 --> 00:43:11,883
Flock cameras, we haven't spent any taxpayer money.

701
00:43:12,063 --> 00:43:13,324
But this was taken by the-

702
00:43:13,713 --> 00:43:15,093
Hold on. Hold on a second.

703
00:43:16,623 --> 00:43:20,523
Hold on. I'll let you rip up what I'm going to say, but I want to mirror something

704
00:43:20,553 --> 00:43:23,523
that the police chief said. I want everybody to just think about this.

705
00:43:24,574 --> 00:43:30,333
If we have to go to the town meeting for every tool that's going to either benefit

706
00:43:30,423 --> 00:43:36,183
or not benefit the town, we wouldn't have tasers, we wouldn't have new AEDs,

707
00:43:36,333 --> 00:43:40,353
we wouldn't have the vests that put on the police officers.

708
00:43:40,413 --> 00:43:43,953
We wouldn't have the LUCAS device in the ambulance that does automatic CPR on you

709
00:43:44,343 --> 00:43:47,433
because we got a grant for it. We bought it through a grant.

710
00:43:47,493 --> 00:43:50,133
We didn't get it, but it's saving you life on a CPR.

711
00:43:52,113 --> 00:43:56,793
So those specific things like flock, it's a tool that the police department brings

712
00:43:56,824 --> 00:44:01,023
to the town, just like their mobile data terminals that are in their police cars.

713
00:44:01,113 --> 00:44:04,203
Every one of them has a computer in it that's $10,000 a computer.

714
00:44:04,263 --> 00:44:08,013
We get them under a grant. We don't go to the town and say, "Can we put new

715
00:44:08,074 --> 00:44:09,843
computers that are going to run your information?

716
00:44:09,904 --> 00:44:12,154
We're going to have all of your information in it.

717
00:44:13,023 --> 00:44:17,673
Is it okay to do that?" Well, it's the uniform that the police need, the tools they

718
00:44:17,733 --> 00:44:21,543
need to do policing. It's the standard of today's policing practice.

719
00:44:21,933 --> 00:44:25,293
So when we send all of our officers out for training, they're trained, they're

720
00:44:25,353 --> 00:44:29,404
certified. In order for them to even use those tablets, they have to pass tests

721
00:44:29,404 --> 00:44:33,213
through the FBI. Those all are things we can't go to town meeting and say-

722
00:44:33,243 --> 00:44:34,923
And some of those are privacy issues as well.

723
00:44:35,133 --> 00:44:35,883
Wait, wait.

724
00:44:37,113 --> 00:44:38,853
That's exactly what I was just going to say.

725
00:44:38,883 --> 00:44:39,963
Hold on, hold on, hold on.

726
00:44:40,443 --> 00:44:42,723
None of that stuff invades my privacy.

727
00:44:42,843 --> 00:44:43,143
Wait.

728
00:44:44,733 --> 00:44:47,613
This is what I will say, and I'm just one individual.

729
00:44:47,703 --> 00:44:52,983
I believe in that these flock cameras were installed, that the public conversation

730
00:44:53,043 --> 00:44:58,203
that was being had, that you're bringing up today, was not into the forefront.

731
00:44:58,623 --> 00:45:04,173
And so while when you and your group asked to

732
00:45:04,293 --> 00:45:08,763
speak today, this committee and this select board could have said, "We'll take your

733
00:45:08,824 --> 00:45:12,783
letter. We'll put it into public correspondence, and we'll move on." That would've

734
00:45:12,783 --> 00:45:17,013
been the wrong thing to do, but it could have been done, and that's not what

735
00:45:17,074 --> 00:45:19,053
happened. We're having a conversation today-

736
00:45:19,293 --> 00:45:20,043
Thank you

737
00:45:20,074 --> 00:45:20,883
... based upon

738
00:45:22,773 --> 00:45:25,983
your claims. And we're having that conversation.

739
00:45:26,313 --> 00:45:28,293
So most certainly, we are

740
00:45:29,583 --> 00:45:31,533
happy to have this public conversation.

741
00:45:31,833 --> 00:45:33,003
I think as an individual,

742
00:45:34,413 --> 00:45:39,633
I was not aware of the extent, and hindsight is 20/20.

743
00:45:40,353 --> 00:45:44,553
With that being said, in terms of town meeting, town meeting is the legislative

744
00:45:44,613 --> 00:45:50,074
entity, the residents of the town, which sole purpose is to-

745
00:45:51,141 --> 00:45:54,201
Find funding sources and to make zoning changes.

746
00:45:54,231 --> 00:45:58,431
This is a policy decision that needs to, most certainly, this is not a town

747
00:45:58,581 --> 00:46:04,552
authority. Now, for this board to make a new policy, obviously, they need

748
00:46:04,611 --> 00:46:09,081
to understand what their constituents want. But town meeting is for funding.

749
00:46:09,442 --> 00:46:12,111
Town meeting has no authority

750
00:46:14,422 --> 00:46:15,440
about contract,

751
00:46:16,971 --> 00:46:21,922
it only is funding sources. Now, and that's the conversation I had with town

752
00:46:21,951 --> 00:46:25,581
council. That does not mean that the residents do not have a voice.

753
00:46:26,121 --> 00:46:28,431
This is the voice that you have, most certainly.

754
00:46:28,971 --> 00:46:33,951
But if there are other towns that are doing Flock-based

755
00:46:35,302 --> 00:46:38,961
citizen petitions, for example. My understanding, and I'm not an attorney, is that

756
00:46:39,050 --> 00:46:42,681
in the town of Fairhaven, that will be on the next agenda.

757
00:46:42,741 --> 00:46:45,922
They could defund Flock, but there's no

758
00:46:47,151 --> 00:46:48,831
operational budget going towards that.

759
00:46:49,161 --> 00:46:50,422
So what that is is just-

760
00:46:52,161 --> 00:46:52,281
Flock.

761
00:46:52,401 --> 00:46:58,071
What that is is just people having a non-binding vote of just in discussion.

762
00:46:58,251 --> 00:46:58,881
And so,

763
00:47:00,442 --> 00:47:06,141
I think what we're doing now, whether it should happen, whether or not is getting

764
00:47:06,561 --> 00:47:07,161
insight.

765
00:47:07,611 --> 00:47:09,172
And we appreciate your input as well.

766
00:47:09,231 --> 00:47:10,672
Sounds like it's falling on deaf ears.

767
00:47:10,731 --> 00:47:10,881
Yeah.

768
00:47:13,011 --> 00:47:16,311
I don't know. To be honest, we've only heard-

769
00:47:16,491 --> 00:47:17,211
It's a policy

770
00:47:18,561 --> 00:47:18,711
issue

771
00:47:18,741 --> 00:47:21,922
... the people who presented, and we've only heard one individual, so I don't know

772
00:47:21,951 --> 00:47:24,442
how that is falling on deaf ears. We haven't even heard the full presentation yet.

773
00:47:24,922 --> 00:47:28,940
Yeah, I'd like to read my portion because I think it speaks to a lot of what we're

774
00:47:29,001 --> 00:47:33,081
trying to say, because there's a lot of things that people don't realize that Flock

775
00:47:33,141 --> 00:47:36,981
company has capabilities of doing and what they're actually doing with practice

776
00:47:37,041 --> 00:47:40,491
now, which really does affect our

777
00:47:40,761 --> 00:47:46,641
personal privacy and civility. So

778
00:47:47,271 --> 00:47:50,481
that's our biggest concern. So on that note, I'd like to speak about it.

779
00:47:50,961 --> 00:47:51,831
Good evening.

780
00:47:52,942 --> 00:47:55,311
Yes, I was getting to that. Everybody said good evening.

781
00:47:55,371 --> 00:47:58,552
My name is Patty Fenner, and I live at 20 Fenner Lane in Rochester.

782
00:47:59,541 --> 00:48:03,111
I'm going to speak about function creep. That's a new terminology.

783
00:48:03,172 --> 00:48:04,371
I don't know if anyone's ever heard of it.

784
00:48:04,971 --> 00:48:10,641
But this is what Flock is doing with all of our data, whether we know it or not.

785
00:48:11,061 --> 00:48:16,041
So data is information. Today, we are collecting exponentially more data than ever

786
00:48:16,071 --> 00:48:21,922
before, while simultaneously developing AI capable of finding patterns humans

787
00:48:21,951 --> 00:48:25,731
would never even notice or maybe even consider in our lifetimes.

788
00:48:26,391 --> 00:48:32,271
Our question about Flock cameras and other ALPRs should never just be,

789
00:48:32,331 --> 00:48:36,681
"What does this camera know about me?" It should be, "What happens when this camera

790
00:48:36,741 --> 00:48:42,111
becomes one more piece of everything else that knows something about me?" The Flock

791
00:48:42,141 --> 00:48:45,351
company's currently testing a somewhat dystopian capability.

792
00:48:45,951 --> 00:48:49,761
Cameras that can track driving patterns without capturing the license plate, a

793
00:48:49,821 --> 00:48:51,442
name, or any connection to a crime.

794
00:48:52,011 --> 00:48:56,931
The company calls it anonymized data collection. Why does this matter?

795
00:48:57,531 --> 00:49:02,841
If you track the same vehicle, make, model, color, route, time of day, you do not

796
00:49:02,871 --> 00:49:06,920
need a plate to identify the driver. You just need enough data points.

797
00:49:07,791 --> 00:49:11,451
Pattern recognition combined with the power of AI does the rest.

798
00:49:12,111 --> 00:49:16,251
For example, if a vehicle passes a Flock camera in our town, it is recorded, as the

799
00:49:16,311 --> 00:49:17,091
chief said earlier.

800
00:49:18,531 --> 00:49:22,431
That information is stored in a local domain on a server in the police station.

801
00:49:23,181 --> 00:49:24,081
Correct me if I'm wrong.

802
00:49:24,621 --> 00:49:25,101
You're correct.

803
00:49:25,581 --> 00:49:27,621
It is also uploaded to a Flock database.

804
00:49:28,521 --> 00:49:32,331
We have no control over what happens to the data collected by Flock cameras in

805
00:49:32,422 --> 00:49:38,151
town. Absolutely none. The company's boilerplate contract, which the police said

806
00:49:38,181 --> 00:49:40,461
was signed by the Rochester Police Department, correct?

807
00:49:41,241 --> 00:49:41,361
Correct.

808
00:49:41,451 --> 00:49:46,851
Has a clause letting Flock keep the data to sell for their own profit to other

809
00:49:46,942 --> 00:49:51,471
outside users. That data is worth money to them.

810
00:49:51,802 --> 00:49:55,791
It starts with public safety. This is how they tout Flock cameras.

811
00:49:56,541 --> 00:49:59,001
Then other uses are discovered and exploited.

812
00:49:59,721 --> 00:50:02,961
Across the country, cities are increasingly deploying these cameras to enforce

813
00:50:03,052 --> 00:50:07,311
minor civil infractions and traffic violations in a shift that has now been coined

814
00:50:07,371 --> 00:50:13,011
as function creep. For years, Flock explicitly promised its technology would not be

815
00:50:13,131 --> 00:50:17,331
used for traffic enforcement, but the company quietly scrubbed that guarantee from

816
00:50:17,361 --> 00:50:19,431
its public materials in recent times.

817
00:50:20,061 --> 00:50:25,131
Today, its network integrates speed camera data and feeds that allow for automated

818
00:50:25,251 --> 00:50:26,692
camera-only citations,

819
00:50:28,431 --> 00:50:33,261
I'm sorry, to be mailed directly to drivers without a physical police officer

820
00:50:33,321 --> 00:50:37,971
present. This is just the beginning of the way your personal data is being mined

821
00:50:38,031 --> 00:50:42,591
for usage. Additionally, while Flock's current official stance is that it is not

822
00:50:42,711 --> 00:50:47,661
used for auto insurance purposes, industry commentary and privacy reports note that

823
00:50:47,781 --> 00:50:53,271
ALPR data from private networks can and has been sold or made available to

824
00:50:53,331 --> 00:50:56,901
commercial consumers, including insurers.

825
00:50:58,221 --> 00:51:02,001
How would your data be used by an insurance company? It looks something like this.

826
00:51:02,091 --> 00:51:05,721
You file a claim for damage, say, to the rear quarter panel of your vehicle due to

827
00:51:05,811 --> 00:51:10,101
a recent accident. The insurance adjuster starts looking for previous images of

828
00:51:10,131 --> 00:51:15,471
your vehicle via Flock data. Subsequently, your claim is reduced, or possibly even

829
00:51:15,531 --> 00:51:19,251
denied, because a shadow from the Flock camera image made it look like there was

830
00:51:19,281 --> 00:51:21,531
previous damage to the quarter panel.

831
00:51:21,591 --> 00:51:26,691
So they get to make these decisions based on just looking at images from Flock

832
00:51:26,781 --> 00:51:29,061
cameras. They shouldn't even have access to this data.

833
00:51:29,391 --> 00:51:33,501
They should have to do proper investigations and find out what really happened.

834
00:51:35,091 --> 00:51:38,721
Moving forward, another powerful member of the business sector discovers another

835
00:51:38,811 --> 00:51:41,841
usage for the data, and yet another, and I've been reading about a lot of these,

836
00:51:41,871 --> 00:51:43,761
and it's very scary, to say the least.

837
00:51:44,182 --> 00:51:48,652
As AI becomes more powerful, one cannot imagine what it can do with all the data

838
00:51:48,712 --> 00:51:51,411
collected from millions of individuals across the country.

839
00:51:51,831 --> 00:51:55,161
But you can be sure there are businesses out there looking to capitalize on how to

840
00:51:55,191 --> 00:52:00,531
utilize and monetize it. Before you know it, you're living in an Orwellian world of

841
00:52:00,561 --> 00:52:04,941
the book "1984," where Big Brother is watching your every move every time your

842
00:52:05,031 --> 00:52:06,682
image is captured on Flock cameras.

843
00:52:07,101 --> 00:52:11,031
It may seem far-fetched at this point in time, but just a short time ago, we

844
00:52:11,061 --> 00:52:14,571
thought it was impossible to create information superhighway via computers.

845
00:52:15,111 --> 00:52:20,391
The bottom line is, a mass surveillance network built without proper oversight is a

846
00:52:20,451 --> 00:52:25,041
weapon waiting to take away our privacy, civil liberties, and ultimately our

847
00:52:25,101 --> 00:52:29,121
freedom. So we should be asking ourselves, is this what we really want for our

848
00:52:29,182 --> 00:52:32,391
democracy in the town of Rochester? Thank you.

849
00:52:40,221 --> 00:52:41,391
I think we have one more speaker, right?

850
00:52:42,321 --> 00:52:42,712
Yeah.

851
00:52:43,701 --> 00:52:43,851
Any?

852
00:52:48,021 --> 00:52:48,381
Help us,

853
00:52:58,402 --> 00:52:58,672
Lynn.

854
00:53:04,191 --> 00:53:07,941
Flock cannot be relied upon to be truthful.

855
00:53:08,481 --> 00:53:11,511
Contracts are made to be honored to partner

856
00:53:12,951 --> 00:53:15,052
with parties of service standards.

857
00:53:15,351 --> 00:53:20,841
Time after time, Flock has not honored these contracts. I'll cite some examples.

858
00:53:20,902 --> 00:53:22,941
And most of you probably already know.

859
00:53:23,721 --> 00:53:29,212
The Boston Police Department had a contract with

860
00:53:29,271 --> 00:53:33,861
Flock, and one of the main tenants was moved out of share.

861
00:53:35,391 --> 00:53:39,201
They put the system in. There were about 25 cameras.

862
00:53:40,971 --> 00:53:44,871
When they initially set it up, everything seemed all right with the police.

863
00:53:45,321 --> 00:53:48,052
They worked on their part and said everything was okay.

864
00:53:48,381 --> 00:53:53,302
Within a few days, they found out that all across the country, other law

865
00:53:53,361 --> 00:53:57,891
enforcement agencies were getting hold of their data.

866
00:53:59,962 --> 00:54:01,371
This was a pilot program.

867
00:54:02,091 --> 00:54:02,212
Sure.

868
00:54:02,271 --> 00:54:06,411
And they canceled the program. The Boston

869
00:54:07,672 --> 00:54:09,141
Police did. So

870
00:54:11,091 --> 00:54:13,131
that was a main component,

871
00:54:14,331 --> 00:54:17,511
and somebody, evidently, the city said that

872
00:54:19,011 --> 00:54:24,231
Flock deactivated that setting, allowing unauthorized access to the data.

873
00:54:25,761 --> 00:54:31,341
Last month, Flock Safety offered to sell five years of speed and

874
00:54:31,402 --> 00:54:34,791
traffic data to the city of Sheboygan, Wisconsin.

875
00:54:35,361 --> 00:54:40,341
That means that Flock cameras were tracking driving speeds and movement patterns,

876
00:54:40,941 --> 00:54:45,861
something the city was not fully aware of. The city canceled said contract.

877
00:54:47,271 --> 00:54:53,139
In Oshkosh, Wisconsin, the city council met with a Flock rep- Chief informed

878
00:54:53,229 --> 00:54:57,938
information security officer. They asked him if the system

879
00:54:58,900 --> 00:55:03,759
created a pattern or a heat map of individuals' movement through tracking of their

880
00:55:03,819 --> 00:55:06,280
vehicles. He told them no.

881
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:12,369
The city granted the contract, and then within a few days found out that that

882
00:55:12,429 --> 00:55:15,459
wasn't true, that they did track them that way.

883
00:55:17,859 --> 00:55:20,799
Down in Florida, St. Lucie County,

884
00:55:23,169 --> 00:55:27,849
they were dismantling the FLOK camera system and then found that there were 14 FLOK

885
00:55:27,879 --> 00:55:29,799
cameras that they were unaware of,

886
00:55:31,389 --> 00:55:36,219
not registered. They found out they owned three of them, but the other 11 they

887
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:42,099
still don't know. And this raises huge concerns of who had access to this kind of

888
00:55:42,549 --> 00:55:44,650
data. It's very sensitive data.

889
00:55:47,650 --> 00:55:52,900
And I know somebody said that cabins, we didn't particularly care for them.

890
00:55:53,589 --> 00:55:58,989
But FLOK consistent cameras do not perform facial recognition.

891
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:05,259
Hackers were able to retrieve an unencrypted encryption key stored

892
00:56:05,319 --> 00:56:10,809
directly on the hardware. This critical flaw allowed investigations from Wired and

893
00:56:11,079 --> 00:56:16,359
404 Media to analyze thousands of videos and logs showing that a single camera

894
00:56:16,419 --> 00:56:22,329
recorded a staggering 1.6 images of 50,000

895
00:56:22,389 --> 00:56:25,900
vehicles over 21 days. That's a staggering amount.

896
00:56:26,709 --> 00:56:28,269
And all aside,

897
00:56:30,190 --> 00:56:32,709
where is this stuff stored? It's stored in the cloud.

898
00:56:33,129 --> 00:56:34,839
Well, and the cloud

899
00:56:36,429 --> 00:56:39,129
is... Let me see if I can get this here.

900
00:56:43,359 --> 00:56:48,549
Where the cloud lives. When you store files or run apps in the cloud, those files

901
00:56:48,579 --> 00:56:53,259
and apps live on a physical hard drive inside massive data centers.

902
00:56:54,519 --> 00:56:57,609
Just look, we don't need to know about BlueJ.

903
00:56:57,699 --> 00:57:02,019
And this sounds like FLOK is contributing a huge amount of this type of

904
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:07,629
data. Beyond merely tracking cars, the analysis of the leaked files

905
00:57:07,690 --> 00:57:13,509
revealed that the camera's computer vision software is explicitly configured to

906
00:57:13,599 --> 00:57:19,059
identify people, bicycles, and minor details like bumper stickers and graphics.

907
00:57:19,569 --> 00:57:24,099
This challenges the conventional narrative that these cameras are simple,

908
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:26,650
non-intrusive traffic monitors.

909
00:57:27,039 --> 00:57:33,009
Instead, the breach provides concrete evidence of an incredibly granular

910
00:57:33,669 --> 00:57:39,219
surveillance system that processes massive amounts of daily

911
00:57:39,669 --> 00:57:45,400
public movement, raising serious concerns over the lack of security shielding these

912
00:57:45,459 --> 00:57:51,369
devices and computers across communities across the country like Rochester.

913
00:57:51,489 --> 00:57:54,039
One last thing, and then I'll be done.

914
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:58,839
I want to quote the East Ridge Water Chief of Police, Michael J. Manson.

915
00:57:58,839 --> 00:58:02,949
"Cameras can be a valuable public safety tool.

916
00:58:03,459 --> 00:58:08,949
However, any technology, we must have the confidence

917
00:58:10,059 --> 00:58:15,519
of the community. Residents have raised legitimate questions about privacy, access

918
00:58:15,549 --> 00:58:19,539
to data, oversight, and safe passages to prevent misuse.

919
00:58:21,489 --> 00:58:26,349
Being a successful police department is not simply about having the most tools or

920
00:58:26,410 --> 00:58:31,389
the newest technology. It is about maintaining the trust and confidence of the

921
00:58:31,479 --> 00:58:32,500
people we serve."

922
00:58:36,519 --> 00:58:40,719
And to piggyback on that, there are 29 Massachusetts cities and towns that have

923
00:58:40,780 --> 00:58:44,739
either canceled or not renewed their contracts with FLOK Security.

924
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,349
They didn't like because of that text.

925
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,389
I actually have copies for all of you.

926
00:58:50,349 --> 00:58:53,799
From what I said, no, what they said is they did their own research.

927
00:58:55,359 --> 00:58:56,049
Thank you so much.

928
00:58:56,739 --> 00:58:59,949
So that's a bumper sticker that I created, and I'm really proud of, and it

929
00:59:02,410 --> 00:59:06,280
promotes the First Amendment, which is part of the right to petition, which is

930
00:59:06,369 --> 00:59:06,849
included in-

931
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,109
We're really excited everybody came in, too.

932
00:59:12,069 --> 00:59:14,229
We don't really get to make decisions on Select Board.

933
00:59:14,379 --> 00:59:14,739
I want to see this one.

934
00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:17,859
So it's kind of nice to have dialogue with the community.

935
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,609
Although sometimes it might seem back and forth and-

936
00:59:22,839 --> 00:59:23,530
But that's democracy.

937
00:59:23,589 --> 00:59:23,769
But-

938
00:59:24,129 --> 00:59:24,280
Yes. Great

939
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:28,809
... the best part about it is we get a feel of the community when you guys do show

940
00:59:28,839 --> 00:59:31,239
up and participate in our meetings.

941
00:59:31,989 --> 00:59:35,679
Because a lot of times people ask, "How did this decision get made?" Well, I

942
00:59:35,859 --> 00:59:39,099
encourage all of you to go on the Select Board agenda and watch all of our

943
00:59:39,129 --> 00:59:44,500
meetings. I think Mr. Varlet's probably the only one that is there every single

944
00:59:44,559 --> 00:59:44,889
meeting.

945
00:59:45,219 --> 00:59:45,339
Yeah.

946
00:59:45,819 --> 00:59:46,269
That's it.

947
00:59:46,569 --> 00:59:47,019
Thanks.

948
00:59:47,079 --> 00:59:52,900
So when we have discussions about FLOK cameras or issues with the town, it's

949
00:59:53,109 --> 00:59:54,549
the three of us. Right?

950
00:59:56,229 --> 00:59:59,289
And then when there's an issue, when someone thinks their expectation of privacy is

951
00:59:59,319 --> 01:00:03,459
breached, then the cameras come down and here we are on this side of the table,

952
01:00:03,549 --> 01:00:07,989
right? So I can assure you that the three of us, the town administrator, everybody

953
01:00:08,049 --> 01:00:12,609
working for the town, we have the best interest for everybody at our hearts when we

954
01:00:12,669 --> 01:00:17,139
make decisions. It's a lot easier to make decisions when we get that back-and-forth

955
01:00:17,169 --> 01:00:21,849
dialogue other than not having any input, and then the three of us toss it around,

956
01:00:22,209 --> 01:00:25,839
and we use it. So it did not fall on deaf ears.

957
01:00:26,109 --> 01:00:28,389
Tonight's discussion did not fall on deaf ears.

958
01:00:28,750 --> 01:00:30,969
I'm sure it's not going to stop and die here.

959
01:00:32,679 --> 01:00:35,469
We have our homework to do as far as even the contract goes.

960
01:00:36,639 --> 01:00:40,599
Town council's actually been working on that contract that you had mentioned, how

961
01:00:40,629 --> 01:00:44,500
it gets signed, who signs it, what does it actually say, is it voidable?

962
01:00:44,589 --> 01:00:45,339
Can we change it?

963
01:00:46,869 --> 01:00:49,719
And is this tool something that we're going to continue or not continue?

964
01:00:51,219 --> 01:00:54,759
And this discussion was being had long before tonight's meeting, whether or not

965
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:59,319
those FLOK cameras were going to stay as a functioning piece of the community of

966
01:00:59,349 --> 01:00:59,949
Rochester.

967
01:01:01,179 --> 01:01:05,709
Something that I struggle with personally is we take the 601 out of Rochester, and

968
01:01:06,579 --> 01:01:11,949
we've had some really good saves come out of that tool, right?

969
01:01:12,190 --> 01:01:12,639
We have.

970
01:01:13,839 --> 01:01:14,410
They've worked.

971
01:01:15,819 --> 01:01:16,509
But then again, I

972
01:01:17,919 --> 01:01:23,559
use risk versus reward. Is having those cameras worth those saves

973
01:01:23,979 --> 01:01:28,539
versus the way you feel about your privacy and your data stored and all those

974
01:01:28,599 --> 01:01:34,539
things? So that's a balance. We have to balance the tools that we're using to make

975
01:01:34,599 --> 01:01:35,410
everybody feel like

976
01:01:37,150 --> 01:01:41,709
they're not being violated and such.

977
01:01:42,309 --> 01:01:43,900
Other ideas have been used in the past.

978
01:01:43,989 --> 01:01:48,309
Correct. Yeah. And I mentioned the hackers, right? We're always dealing with that.

979
01:01:48,639 --> 01:01:52,239
I mean, always. When we serve as in passwords, I mean, it's town emails we hit,

980
01:01:52,389 --> 01:01:52,599
too.

981
01:01:53,650 --> 01:01:56,139
It's not just like someone just hacking the town phone and getting information.

982
01:01:56,199 --> 01:02:00,219
This information goes to databases that send to AI centers-

983
01:02:00,819 --> 01:02:01,179
Yeah. Yeah

984
01:02:01,179 --> 01:02:03,699
... and then that is being sold-

985
01:02:04,359 --> 01:02:04,359
Sure

986
01:02:04,359 --> 01:02:08,109
... to FLOK camera companies who give the highest bidders for whatever information

987
01:02:08,139 --> 01:02:12,069
they're looking for, and it's monetized. That's the problem.

988
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,469
Sure. And again, I have no idea.

989
01:02:14,530 --> 01:02:16,119
The security breach part is one thing.

990
01:02:16,150 --> 01:02:19,839
We as a Select Board have no idea when we're coming up with these tools-

991
01:02:19,929 --> 01:02:20,859
No, but I am serious

992
01:02:20,889 --> 01:02:25,809
... that someone's selling the pictures of your cars to the insurance companies for

993
01:02:26,650 --> 01:02:28,929
car accidents. They're using that.

994
01:02:29,139 --> 01:02:31,839
I think that is the biggest stretch-

995
01:02:31,869 --> 01:02:32,259
They're tracking your purchases, too

996
01:02:32,289 --> 01:02:36,339
... I've ever heard of an insurance... Just my personal opinion is I don't think...

997
01:02:36,699 --> 01:02:39,759
I think that's ridiculous that insurance companies can use that data to say you

998
01:02:39,789 --> 01:02:41,289
didn't crash your car.

999
01:02:41,289 --> 01:02:41,319
They can use it for whole different reasons.

1000
01:02:41,319 --> 01:02:46,089
But that's another conversation. I guess it's really unbelievable. But yeah.

1001
01:02:48,699 --> 01:02:53,589
Hi, Lorraine Thompson, 192 Petula Road. I'm a lifelong resident of Rochester.

1002
01:02:54,069 --> 01:02:58,869
I'm going to throw out a statement for everyone to think about.

1003
01:02:58,929 --> 01:03:01,959
It's not that I'm for FLOK or not for FLOK.

1004
01:03:02,500 --> 01:03:06,160
If FLOK is not in Rochester, will you only drive in Rochester?

1005
01:03:06,549 --> 01:03:09,789
Because everyone around us is getting some sort of FLOK.

1006
01:03:12,219 --> 01:03:13,780
But they're also getting rid of them.

1007
01:03:14,199 --> 01:03:15,009
Yes.

1008
01:03:15,069 --> 01:03:16,509
Town's getting rid of the FLOK.

1009
01:03:16,509 --> 01:03:19,059
Massachusetts alone is about a dozen.

1010
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:21,369
Because some of them have been here before and after.

1011
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:27,069
Hold on. We just have to keep the meeting in order and go through the chair, so any

1012
01:03:27,129 --> 01:03:29,289
discussion has to go through the chair.

1013
01:03:30,219 --> 01:03:31,839
But to everyone's point,

1014
01:03:33,729 --> 01:03:34,479
everyone has a

1015
01:03:35,679 --> 01:03:38,679
one way or another, like, "I support FLOK," or, "I don't support FLOK.

1016
01:03:39,699 --> 01:03:42,219
These are the reasons why. These aren't the reasons why." But again, at the end of

1017
01:03:42,219 --> 01:03:45,219
the day, it has to be in the best interest of the entire community, not just-

1018
01:03:47,859 --> 01:03:49,900
Excuse me. Right now. No. Just-

1019
01:03:51,489 --> 01:03:55,599
I'm not a resident of Rochester. I've been marrying into associates.

1020
01:03:56,889 --> 01:04:00,789
I come through Rochester three times a week because

1021
01:04:01,707 --> 01:04:02,487
And what my concern-

1022
01:04:02,487 --> 01:04:02,967
Keep it to the trust

1023
01:04:03,387 --> 01:04:05,937
... what my, I'll do it short so I don't delay it.

1024
01:04:06,897 --> 01:04:12,837
What my concern is, is I go directly 105 to Walnut Lane, which means I

1025
01:04:12,867 --> 01:04:18,478
go through one of the Flock cameras, going to my daughter's house, going home, or

1026
01:04:19,017 --> 01:04:24,147
sometimes also going to Rochester High School to pick up the kids, bring them home.

1027
01:04:24,837 --> 01:04:29,607
My point is, I'm a law-abiding citizen. I have never been arrested.

1028
01:04:29,998 --> 01:04:34,437
I've never received a speeding ticket. I have a clean record.

1029
01:04:34,527 --> 01:04:40,137
And I think it is that way. However, this type of surveillance honestly

1030
01:04:40,587 --> 01:04:45,748
frightens the hell out of me because my information now is being recorded six to

1031
01:04:45,837 --> 01:04:47,667
eight times, three times a week,

1032
01:04:49,197 --> 01:04:54,657
24 times a week. My car is being recorded as going through that stop.

1033
01:04:56,547 --> 01:05:00,087
I don't want my insurance company to eventually know that. I don't want...

1034
01:05:00,447 --> 01:05:04,077
It's nobody's business. That's my private information.

1035
01:05:04,527 --> 01:05:06,628
And I understand what you're saying

1036
01:05:06,717 --> 01:05:11,788
about that it assists

1037
01:05:12,807 --> 01:05:18,508
drug prevention, crime. In those instances, I'm really torn because I can see that

1038
01:05:18,538 --> 01:05:24,508
there is a benefit in some cases, but it doesn't appear to me that where the data

1039
01:05:24,567 --> 01:05:30,057
is stored, the fact that it could be sold and is being sold, that frightens the

1040
01:05:30,087 --> 01:05:30,867
hell out of me.

1041
01:05:31,617 --> 01:05:35,187
Well, interestingly enough, what I hear you saying, correct me if I'm wrong, is

1042
01:05:35,248 --> 01:05:40,677
because it's a private entity that's storing the data and it's not a federal

1043
01:05:40,767 --> 01:05:44,758
agency's camera system that's only accessed by federal law enforcement and local

1044
01:05:44,817 --> 01:05:47,157
law enforcement, is what's the challenge here.

1045
01:05:47,547 --> 01:05:49,707
That's what it seems like the census is.

1046
01:05:50,217 --> 01:05:55,527
But if you can purchase information from the database, then

1047
01:05:55,978 --> 01:05:56,337
couldn't-

1048
01:05:56,367 --> 01:05:59,277
Well, again, I have no idea if that's accurate. I have no idea.

1049
01:05:59,277 --> 01:06:00,297
And I'm wondering if it is.

1050
01:06:01,137 --> 01:06:02,487
I have no idea how you would even...

1051
01:06:05,067 --> 01:06:05,367
I'm sorry.

1052
01:06:05,457 --> 01:06:07,407
If it wasn't a third-party entity-

1053
01:06:07,617 --> 01:06:08,157
Right

1054
01:06:08,187 --> 01:06:10,887
... looking at everybody in this room all the time-

1055
01:06:11,097 --> 01:06:11,307
Exactly

1056
01:06:11,337 --> 01:06:12,387
... and you folks-

1057
01:06:12,478 --> 01:06:12,628
Exactly

1058
01:06:12,687 --> 01:06:15,117
... people wouldn't be so uncomfortable with it maybe.

1059
01:06:15,508 --> 01:06:20,157
If it was just the town running the camera, traffic enforcement at the intersection

1060
01:06:20,277 --> 01:06:25,347
from the accidents all the time, maybe instead of Flock, maybe you could use a

1061
01:06:25,467 --> 01:06:30,717
camera at that intersection because I, myself almost got hit by a semi because the

1062
01:06:30,748 --> 01:06:34,587
guy didn't bother to stop at Walnut Lane and Mary's Farm.

1063
01:06:35,217 --> 01:06:40,887
I didn't know that the crime level in Rochester was such that we needed to keep

1064
01:06:40,947 --> 01:06:43,498
track of who was coming through town all the time.

1065
01:06:43,917 --> 01:06:44,038
Yeah.

1066
01:06:44,097 --> 01:06:46,077
It seems to be a little bit overkill.

1067
01:06:46,077 --> 01:06:48,147
There's a lot of crime that comes in and out of Rochester-

1068
01:06:48,478 --> 01:06:48,777
In and out?

1069
01:06:48,807 --> 01:06:50,067
... that people that don't know about.

1070
01:06:50,217 --> 01:06:51,027
Right. Well-

1071
01:06:51,057 --> 01:06:51,177
I didn't know that

1072
01:06:51,177 --> 01:06:51,867
... yeah, a lot

1073
01:06:51,957 --> 01:06:57,267
... it seems that the way you speak about it, that cameras are abundant enough-

1074
01:06:57,748 --> 01:06:57,748
Yeah

1075
01:06:57,748 --> 01:07:00,447
... that it wouldn't make sense to add more cameras.

1076
01:07:00,927 --> 01:07:03,117
So the cameras that we've used, right?

1077
01:07:03,417 --> 01:07:03,897
I know what they do.

1078
01:07:03,927 --> 01:07:07,437
They've shaved off hours, days of investigations-

1079
01:07:07,467 --> 01:07:07,467
I know

1080
01:07:07,498 --> 01:07:11,038
... and they helped save one person's life that we know about that was hours away

1081
01:07:11,097 --> 01:07:11,667
from dying.

1082
01:07:12,657 --> 01:07:12,987
Wow.

1083
01:07:14,067 --> 01:07:19,767
Period. And if we didn't have these cameras, he would've died in the woods, 100%.

1084
01:07:21,387 --> 01:07:22,557
In a car accident?

1085
01:07:22,947 --> 01:07:23,217
Nope.

1086
01:07:24,027 --> 01:07:24,777
So how does the Flock-

1087
01:07:24,867 --> 01:07:26,397
Mental health. It was a mental health issue

1088
01:07:26,457 --> 01:07:27,807
... but how does the Flock camera-

1089
01:07:27,867 --> 01:07:28,707
It was a mental health issue

1090
01:07:28,737 --> 01:07:32,397
... because all it can be, it can only track through the Flock camera's

1091
01:07:32,607 --> 01:07:35,817
web.

1092
01:07:35,878 --> 01:07:39,417
And just to add, and I know if you have it in your car and you have a cell phone in

1093
01:07:39,447 --> 01:07:43,707
your pocket, that data is getting sold everywhere all the time.

1094
01:07:43,797 --> 01:07:47,637
If you don't think Big Brother can locate you, Big Brother's locating you all the

1095
01:07:47,697 --> 01:07:47,907
time.

1096
01:07:48,447 --> 01:07:49,437
That's the point. That's why we want to know.

1097
01:07:49,467 --> 01:07:50,277
Three times.

1098
01:07:50,367 --> 01:07:50,607
Wait.

1099
01:07:51,447 --> 01:07:53,788
Excuse me, sir. You didn't identify yourself.

1100
01:07:55,107 --> 01:07:57,538
Oh, I'm John Murdoch. I live in town.

1101
01:07:58,167 --> 01:07:59,697
Mm-hmm. Your address?

1102
01:08:00,717 --> 01:08:01,887
New Bedford Road.

1103
01:08:04,288 --> 01:08:06,237
Could we have a look at the recording?

1104
01:08:07,258 --> 01:08:07,677
I think it's old.

1105
01:08:07,737 --> 01:08:11,487
No, I just... I wanted to thank you all for listening to us.

1106
01:08:11,697 --> 01:08:15,897
I wanted to thank you all for, especially for being selectmen people, because I

1107
01:08:15,927 --> 01:08:21,628
know you put a lot of time into running our town to keep us safe.

1108
01:08:22,617 --> 01:08:24,027
So, I guess I thank you with your pay.

1109
01:08:27,538 --> 01:08:27,538
I know.

1110
01:08:27,567 --> 01:08:32,697
But I really appreciate how much you do on your own time for the town.

1111
01:08:33,807 --> 01:08:33,958
Yeah.

1112
01:08:34,077 --> 01:08:35,337
I hope that, yes,

1113
01:08:36,597 --> 01:08:40,167
the police chief has a point. This is a tool, they can use it.

1114
01:08:40,228 --> 01:08:45,657
But I think that this tool is a bridge too far as far as our

1115
01:08:45,748 --> 01:08:50,307
privacy and civil liberties are concerned, and I hope that you weigh

1116
01:08:52,197 --> 01:08:53,248
both sides. So thank you.

1117
01:08:53,307 --> 01:08:56,458
Well, absolutely. That's what we're going to do. Mr. Sprolet.

1118
01:08:57,867 --> 01:09:02,067
Thank you. My name's Don Sprolet, 305 Bradley Hill Road. Mr.

1119
01:09:02,307 --> 01:09:06,657
Chairman, I'm addressing you and the board. The three of you are elected.

1120
01:09:08,187 --> 01:09:14,157
Part of your job is to make appointments throughout town, which includes

1121
01:09:14,218 --> 01:09:19,258
the police department. So you appoint someone like Chief Assad to run the police

1122
01:09:19,317 --> 01:09:25,258
department. They have a certain amount of tools in their toolbox to keep us safe.

1123
01:09:25,708 --> 01:09:31,317
If eventually you choose to remove the one tool called Flock,

1124
01:09:32,758 --> 01:09:35,487
you're doing a disservice to the chief and also

1125
01:09:37,527 --> 01:09:40,137
all the law-abiding citizens here in town.

1126
01:09:40,617 --> 01:09:44,218
Now, the lady said she never got a speeding ticket.

1127
01:09:44,337 --> 01:09:49,077
I have gotten more than my share- ... but I'm not afraid of the Flock cameras.

1128
01:09:49,857 --> 01:09:49,857
Yes.

1129
01:09:49,917 --> 01:09:52,347
But if eventually the Flock cameras go away,

1130
01:09:54,597 --> 01:10:00,087
I just want you to consider the day that something happens in town.

1131
01:10:00,147 --> 01:10:03,297
Probably the worst call the chief could get is,

1132
01:10:04,527 --> 01:10:10,258
we have a abducted child in town. That has to be the worst thing that could

1133
01:10:10,287 --> 01:10:14,487
possibly happen, and don't think it doesn't happen in Rochester because it has and

1134
01:10:14,517 --> 01:10:15,147
it could.

1135
01:10:16,468 --> 01:10:21,837
Something like that, and I'm sure the chief will agree, that minutes and hours make

1136
01:10:21,897 --> 01:10:27,747
the biggest difference. And by having that tool in his toolbox, they can quickly...

1137
01:10:28,978 --> 01:10:31,197
If they're looking for me, they know my plate number.

1138
01:10:31,797 --> 01:10:35,187
They know I left town and head in the direction of

1139
01:10:37,287 --> 01:10:42,087
Marion or Mattapoisett. So once again, I'm hoping that eventually when you make a

1140
01:10:42,117 --> 01:10:47,968
decision, the decision is to keep the tool in the toolbox for the guy you count

1141
01:10:48,027 --> 01:10:48,807
on it. Thank you.

1142
01:10:49,947 --> 01:10:52,677
I hope they said something like that when they said it was a toolbox.

1143
01:10:52,887 --> 01:10:56,968
Wait a minute. Is there anybody else that hasn't spoken?

1144
01:10:57,267 --> 01:11:00,297
I just had a question if you don't mind. I have a question. Yes.

1145
01:11:00,327 --> 01:11:01,287
When is the grant...

1146
01:11:03,327 --> 01:11:08,577
Sara Granetti, 57 Taylor Road. When does the grant money expire

1147
01:11:09,177 --> 01:11:10,587
so that we can then

1148
01:11:12,657 --> 01:11:17,787
bring this together in a town meeting setting and agree that the town wants this as

1149
01:11:17,817 --> 01:11:20,907
opposed to just the chief of police wants it?

1150
01:11:22,167 --> 01:11:22,407
I think-

1151
01:11:23,937 --> 01:11:25,197
I think we have maybe another year.

1152
01:11:25,857 --> 01:11:26,787
I'd have to look at the-

1153
01:11:26,937 --> 01:11:27,267
Okay.

1154
01:11:27,297 --> 01:11:28,978
Regardless of funding, okay?

1155
01:11:29,037 --> 01:11:29,367
Mm-hmm.

1156
01:11:29,427 --> 01:11:32,997
If the community itself, the majority of the community comes to the select board

1157
01:11:33,027 --> 01:11:36,147
and says this is a problem, you don't need a town meeting.

1158
01:11:36,207 --> 01:11:36,327
Mm.

1159
01:11:36,897 --> 01:11:37,887
Well, we did.

1160
01:11:37,947 --> 01:11:41,968
Right? Let's make that clear. What you needed to do was come here tonight.

1161
01:11:42,027 --> 01:11:42,237
Yeah.

1162
01:11:42,297 --> 01:11:45,987
We're gathering all this information. We're going to circle back and talk about it.

1163
01:11:46,047 --> 01:11:47,157
We're going to meet with the police chief.

1164
01:11:47,547 --> 01:11:51,177
We're going to actually do some investigation of the Flock ourself internally, go

1165
01:11:51,207 --> 01:11:56,218
down to the town administrator to do a research with town council to verify all the

1166
01:11:56,247 --> 01:11:58,407
statements that you said are accurate and fair.

1167
01:11:59,037 --> 01:12:02,157
Just because you come to a meeting with a packet full of research that we did at

1168
01:12:02,187 --> 01:12:05,817
home, I mean, I've Googled my health and that's not a great tool.

1169
01:12:06,237 --> 01:12:11,307
So we're going to have the professionals and town council go over all of your

1170
01:12:11,337 --> 01:12:14,487
concerns, all the information that you're going to leave us tonight.

1171
01:12:15,087 --> 01:12:18,597
We're going to address it. We're going to meet with the chief, and then we'll come

1172
01:12:18,657 --> 01:12:23,277
back as a select board and make a decision on what's going to be best, whether the

1173
01:12:23,307 --> 01:12:27,867
information is fair and accurate, and if it's what is going to be the tempo of the

1174
01:12:27,927 --> 01:12:30,237
town. We'll have another select board meeting.

1175
01:12:30,627 --> 01:12:32,667
We'll open it up to the public for public comment.

1176
01:12:33,117 --> 01:12:37,647
We'll duly advertise it so that we can get everyone that wants to come, hopefully

1177
01:12:37,677 --> 01:12:40,767
more than that's here now, and then we'll make the best decision.

1178
01:12:41,247 --> 01:12:45,508
Is it possible to have a petition that's signed by several people living in town?

1179
01:12:45,897 --> 01:12:46,107
That's already-

1180
01:12:46,107 --> 01:12:46,887
Some people don't know

1181
01:12:48,387 --> 01:12:49,947
That already happened. That's why we're here today.

1182
01:12:49,978 --> 01:12:55,647
We received a group of citizens, I don't know off the top of my head, 25, 30-

1183
01:12:55,677 --> 01:12:58,407
There's about 20 people that signed the letter asking questions-

1184
01:12:58,587 --> 01:12:58,917
And so-

1185
01:12:58,917 --> 01:13:00,297
... most of which were answered

1186
01:13:00,357 --> 01:13:03,627
... and so by that reason alone is why we're here.

1187
01:13:03,987 --> 01:13:04,497
The only thing-

1188
01:13:04,527 --> 01:13:09,147
But if you get, let's say 500 signatures from the town, is that substantial enough

1189
01:13:09,207 --> 01:13:10,047
to sway your decision?

1190
01:13:10,287 --> 01:13:15,177
You certainly can definitely go out and gather signatures and send information.

1191
01:13:15,837 --> 01:13:18,957
That's what we're here to do. If we hear from the public that it's not in the best

1192
01:13:18,987 --> 01:13:22,228
interest of what you people want, then that's how we make our decisions.

1193
01:13:22,767 --> 01:13:24,987
We work for you. You vote for us. We listen to you.

1194
01:13:25,107 --> 01:13:29,097
We vote the way the town wants us to vote. It's not how Adam Murphy wants it.

1195
01:13:30,327 --> 01:13:34,407
I have my personal opinion on Flock, but if the majority of the community doesn't

1196
01:13:34,437 --> 01:13:36,597
want Flock, then we don't have Flock.

1197
01:13:36,597 --> 01:13:40,077
If we want to see the majority of the community, we should have seen such a bigger

1198
01:13:41,427 --> 01:13:41,607
meeting.

1199
01:13:41,697 --> 01:13:44,067
That would be a public meeting, right?

1200
01:13:44,787 --> 01:13:49,557
You come to a public meeting, we have a meeting, and the three of us will determine

1201
01:13:50,667 --> 01:13:53,218
the way the tempo of the community is speaking.

1202
01:13:53,847 --> 01:13:54,267
It's just like-

1203
01:13:54,327 --> 01:13:57,447
No, in terms of signatures. How many signatures would be the majority of the town

1204
01:13:57,478 --> 01:13:58,407
then?

1205
01:13:58,468 --> 01:14:00,087
Myself personally, you're asking?

1206
01:14:00,177 --> 01:14:01,407
I mean, sure.

1207
01:14:01,437 --> 01:14:02,667
There's no bylaw. There's no-

1208
01:14:02,667 --> 01:14:03,327
There's no analysis

1209
01:14:03,357 --> 01:14:08,187
... there's no number that says, but if 500 people sign a petition saying that

1210
01:14:08,787 --> 01:14:10,707
Flock is a problem, that's a lot of...

1211
01:14:12,147 --> 01:14:14,187
900 people vote in an election in this town.

1212
01:14:14,427 --> 01:14:16,107
If you get 500 signatures-

1213
01:14:16,827 --> 01:14:17,008
Yeah.

1214
01:14:17,607 --> 01:14:18,718
The young lady in the back.

1215
01:14:22,827 --> 01:14:23,067
That'll be good to do.

1216
01:14:23,067 --> 01:14:25,166
Hi, Jennifer Threedenody, 57 Miller Road, Rochester.

1217
01:14:27,147 --> 01:14:32,607
I did also extensive research on this since before I saw the first Flock camera pop

1218
01:14:32,697 --> 01:14:35,517
up in March, which I did contact Chief Assad about.

1219
01:14:36,897 --> 01:14:41,907
And I definitely just want to say, in terms of AI, I think we're all extremely

1220
01:14:41,937 --> 01:14:45,387
naive to think that a constantly growing technology like AI

1221
01:14:46,947 --> 01:14:48,747
being used like this doesn't put people at risk.

1222
01:14:49,107 --> 01:14:52,857
I think everyone really needs to do their own research on the limits or, most

1223
01:14:52,917 --> 01:14:56,728
importantly, lack thereof, of artificial intelligence itself.

1224
01:14:57,537 --> 01:15:00,837
I also want to emphasize the fact that nobody here is questioning the Rochester

1225
01:15:00,897 --> 01:15:05,218
Police Department. We are questioning the intentions of a billionaire and his

1226
01:15:05,277 --> 01:15:11,097
billionaire company wanting to install a mass surveillance system because

1227
01:15:11,817 --> 01:15:16,707
ask yourselves, why would a billionaire company where normally people put all of

1228
01:15:16,737 --> 01:15:21,147
their money into it, right? And they live off their-- That's what they thrive off

1229
01:15:21,237 --> 01:15:26,218
of is this constant consumerism. Why would a company

1230
01:15:27,357 --> 01:15:33,117
put all of their money into putting these cameras up

1231
01:15:33,237 --> 01:15:39,147
everywhere in the United States? That includes the Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico.

1232
01:15:40,797 --> 01:15:43,468
I saw one when I was in the Virgin Islands. It's really sad.

1233
01:15:43,527 --> 01:15:44,127
Multiple.

1234
01:15:44,187 --> 01:15:45,267
Multiple, actually, yeah.

1235
01:15:47,037 --> 01:15:52,978
And then lastly, I just want to say directly to you, Chief Assad, I really hope you

1236
01:15:53,008 --> 01:15:57,627
can listen to the information that was said tonight because it was really, really

1237
01:15:57,687 --> 01:15:58,707
unfortunate

1238
01:16:00,657 --> 01:16:05,697
for me to hear you specifically say that no amount of information would change your

1239
01:16:05,758 --> 01:16:08,637
mind or research. And that is all hopefully on a recorded call.

1240
01:16:08,697 --> 01:16:11,187
That is not just a witness statement.

1241
01:16:13,617 --> 01:16:18,207
That was very unfortunate to hear that no amount of knowledge or research presented

1242
01:16:18,657 --> 01:16:23,487
would change your minds. And that also, you said that any misuses by the camera

1243
01:16:23,517 --> 01:16:26,517
were not your responsibility, and that was also really upsetting to hear.

1244
01:16:28,167 --> 01:16:29,907
Again, all on a recorded call as well.

1245
01:16:31,437 --> 01:16:35,367
And again, it's about the cameras. It's about the mass surveillance.

1246
01:16:35,397 --> 01:16:36,508
It's about the data.

1247
01:16:36,567 --> 01:16:37,258
It's about the-- Yes.

1248
01:16:37,587 --> 01:16:39,357
The database that is undeletable-

1249
01:16:39,597 --> 01:16:39,718
Yeah

1250
01:16:39,718 --> 01:16:41,097
... that is now in Flock's hands.

1251
01:16:41,097 --> 01:16:43,857
It is also undeletable. I also encourage everyone to also...

1252
01:16:44,397 --> 01:16:48,478
I had it right here, but then that was one of the first things that one of these

1253
01:16:48,537 --> 01:16:51,267
very well-researched women read about the

1254
01:16:54,747 --> 01:16:59,877
Flock safety contract themselves here, where they just put it in the fine print

1255
01:16:59,937 --> 01:17:01,917
saying that they never have to delete your data.

1256
01:17:02,397 --> 01:17:06,987
They call it aggregated data because they say that it has no identifying traits,

1257
01:17:07,707 --> 01:17:11,847
but that does not mean that they don't know who you are, and that anyone who

1258
01:17:11,968 --> 01:17:14,008
accesses the data does not know who you are.

1259
01:17:15,417 --> 01:17:17,277
As a young person, I've grown up with the

1260
01:17:19,677 --> 01:17:23,997
growing technology of AI. By my senior year at high school, we had to run our

1261
01:17:24,478 --> 01:17:29,127
papers through an AI system to make sure that people weren't using AI on their

1262
01:17:29,187 --> 01:17:32,097
papers. And it's come a lot farther since then.

1263
01:17:33,687 --> 01:17:38,787
It's something that AI developers themselves are saying, "Limit us." But that's not

1264
01:17:38,847 --> 01:17:43,437
happening. That's what we're trying to do right here and in other towns all over

1265
01:17:43,468 --> 01:17:47,517
the United States that are getting rid of this. We have to be the stops.

1266
01:17:49,228 --> 01:17:50,728
And lastly, I just want to say that

1267
01:17:52,917 --> 01:17:57,177
the fact that we are tracked in so many other ways is not a reason

1268
01:17:59,667 --> 01:18:01,527
to put that in place in any other way.

1269
01:18:01,617 --> 01:18:06,747
That is the rhetoric of every failure in history ever.

1270
01:18:07,557 --> 01:18:07,887
So-

1271
01:18:09,567 --> 01:18:09,687
Yeah

1272
01:18:09,927 --> 01:18:13,857
... I would really encourage you to take that out of your repertoire for future

1273
01:18:14,037 --> 01:18:17,758
conversations about this, because this will be an ongoing conversation. Thank you.

1274
01:18:17,877 --> 01:18:18,117
Thank you.

1275
01:18:25,047 --> 01:18:28,737
I think some of our conversation was taken out of context, what you just said right

1276
01:18:28,767 --> 01:18:29,547
there, but that's fine.

1277
01:18:29,877 --> 01:18:31,107
Well, I-

1278
01:18:31,167 --> 01:18:33,027
Hold on, hold on. It's my turn.

1279
01:18:34,857 --> 01:18:38,487
I want to tell everybody in this room that even if you decide that you don't want

1280
01:18:38,517 --> 01:18:42,718
these cameras in your town and they are taken down, I will still make sure that we

1281
01:18:42,777 --> 01:18:48,267
provide the best policing service that any town can get because Rochester deserves

1282
01:18:48,297 --> 01:18:50,517
it. So no matter what happens with the cameras-

1283
01:18:51,267 --> 01:18:54,267
We're not questioning you.

1284
01:18:54,387 --> 01:18:54,627
Yeah.

1285
01:18:54,837 --> 01:18:55,587
And I'm just telling you-

1286
01:18:56,067 --> 01:18:56,157
I hear you

1287
01:18:56,218 --> 01:18:59,577
... no matter what happens with the cameras, we are still going to provide the best

1288
01:18:59,637 --> 01:19:02,067
police service around. Period.

1289
01:19:03,687 --> 01:19:06,177
And you were doing that before Flock.

1290
01:19:06,237 --> 01:19:06,747
And you both are the same.

1291
01:19:07,167 --> 01:19:08,277
Before Flock, you were doing that.

1292
01:19:08,337 --> 01:19:09,267
We were always doing that.

1293
01:19:09,357 --> 01:19:09,627
Yes.

1294
01:19:09,657 --> 01:19:11,367
That's right. Yeah.

1295
01:19:11,427 --> 01:19:16,468
Is there anybody else that hasn't spoken that has anything to say? Mr.

1296
01:19:16,947 --> 01:19:22,167
Peters, just one thing. I think that much to Andrea's chagrin, I'm very middle of

1297
01:19:22,197 --> 01:19:26,637
the road type of person, and I try to make as many people happy as possible.

1298
01:19:26,937 --> 01:19:32,247
And one thing I'm taking as a consensus out of the conversation is

1299
01:19:33,057 --> 01:19:36,867
that there probably is a conversation that everyone as residents should have with

1300
01:19:36,927 --> 01:19:41,487
their legislative delegates, with their state rep and their state senator for some

1301
01:19:41,637 --> 01:19:45,807
additional regulation, whether you feel that it shouldn't exist, or whether you

1302
01:19:45,897 --> 01:19:49,887
feel that there are guardrails that need to be set to make this tool a

1303
01:19:51,627 --> 01:19:54,478
worthwhile entity in the toolbox.

1304
01:19:54,537 --> 01:19:58,197
So everyone has individual opinions on that, then that's fine.

1305
01:19:58,228 --> 01:20:02,067
But I would most certainly suggest that you reach out to the state representatives.

1306
01:20:02,127 --> 01:20:06,387
I know that there are conversations being happening on Beacon Hill about putting

1307
01:20:06,447 --> 01:20:10,887
additional regulations for the use of said cameras.

1308
01:20:13,407 --> 01:20:14,127
Or anywhere they want to.

1309
01:20:14,127 --> 01:20:14,127
Sure, anywhere.

1310
01:20:14,218 --> 01:20:15,177
And in terms of AI as a whole.

1311
01:20:15,207 --> 01:20:19,107
Well, fine. But just in terms of Flock cameras, the use of a warrant, this or that,

1312
01:20:19,377 --> 01:20:23,457
whether that is beneficial or not, I know that those conversations are actively

1313
01:20:23,487 --> 01:20:25,197
happening on Beacon Hill.

1314
01:20:26,517 --> 01:20:29,397
So I'd like to take that together. We can have our cake and eat it too over time.

1315
01:20:29,817 --> 01:20:33,027
And so I think that's the mechanism to get that done.

1316
01:20:34,197 --> 01:20:37,527
A much more macro view than a micro one.

1317
01:20:38,877 --> 01:20:39,987
That's all I got for you.

1318
01:20:39,987 --> 01:20:43,047
So there actually is a bill in the Massachusetts legislature.

1319
01:20:43,137 --> 01:20:43,137
Yes.

1320
01:20:43,137 --> 01:20:46,587
It's H375 that they're working on.

1321
01:20:48,147 --> 01:20:50,728
It says that there should just be 14 days.

1322
01:20:50,968 --> 01:20:53,547
ALPRs should only store stuff for 14 days.

1323
01:20:54,237 --> 01:21:00,117
It is limited for law enforcement and investigation purposes only, and it bars the

1324
01:21:00,177 --> 01:21:05,397
law enforcement from accessing another agency's data without a search warrant.

1325
01:21:05,697 --> 01:21:08,997
So that's what's up in Boston right now.

1326
01:21:10,347 --> 01:21:12,777
But they take them forever to pass that.

1327
01:21:13,258 --> 01:21:13,707
Yep.

1328
01:21:13,767 --> 01:21:18,267
And there is something, I think, also in Washington where they're working on

1329
01:21:18,327 --> 01:21:20,277
something to get anything passed there.

1330
01:21:21,327 --> 01:21:24,387
Like we used to say in New York, they're going to have to congress with

1331
01:21:25,917 --> 01:21:26,037
it.

1332
01:21:26,097 --> 01:21:26,367
Thank you.

1333
01:21:27,627 --> 01:21:31,017
Interestingly enough, just thinking about all the tools that we have as police

1334
01:21:31,137 --> 01:21:36,957
officers in the town, the majority of them, i.e., their whole data terminals,

1335
01:21:37,137 --> 01:21:42,237
all their information that's stored, their RMV, it's all regulated by government.

1336
01:21:44,157 --> 01:21:47,728
So something that's interesting about the Flock cameras that after all the

1337
01:21:47,758 --> 01:21:52,827
conversations we have and the back-and-forth dialogue is these cameras are

1338
01:21:53,697 --> 01:21:57,567
being used as part of the police department that's not regulated by the government.

1339
01:21:57,627 --> 01:22:02,277
It's regulated by a private entity, which in fact has the ability or doesn't have

1340
01:22:02,307 --> 01:22:02,758
the ability-

1341
01:22:04,029 --> 01:22:05,349
To disseminate that information.

1342
01:22:06,189 --> 01:22:10,929
Whereas all of your other information that the police department has and uses in

1343
01:22:10,959 --> 01:22:14,739
the capacity of their job is regulated by the government.

1344
01:22:15,818 --> 01:22:20,079
And that being said, hold on. That being said, I think this board should take a

1345
01:22:20,109 --> 01:22:24,549
vote tonight whether we either postpone the use of Flock cameras until we get to

1346
01:22:24,579 --> 01:22:29,169
the bottom of this, versus just letting them run until we find information that we

1347
01:22:29,229 --> 01:22:29,679
don't have.

1348
01:22:32,499 --> 01:22:37,359
I'm willing to make a motion to terminate the use of the Flock cameras until town

1349
01:22:37,419 --> 01:22:42,399
council has reviewed the contract with Flock, and we can determine whether this

1350
01:22:42,459 --> 01:22:44,679
information is being disseminated or it's not.

1351
01:22:45,039 --> 01:22:50,559
Because I don't agree that cameras on the streets, that information is

1352
01:22:51,099 --> 01:22:55,539
sold to anybody. If it's law enforcement use, I'm all about it.

1353
01:22:56,169 --> 01:23:00,549
If only the cops can have it, I'm good to go. Green light, have at it.

1354
01:23:00,969 --> 01:23:03,339
But if in fact that information is being

1355
01:23:04,809 --> 01:23:08,679
sold or whatever, and I don't know, because I didn't do the research, it hasn't

1356
01:23:08,709 --> 01:23:11,469
been proven to me that it's been done, but I don't think we should be using it

1357
01:23:11,529 --> 01:23:14,739
until we have all that information. Good, bad, or indifferent.

1358
01:23:14,829 --> 01:23:18,729
I know it saved a life. I know it's a great tool.

1359
01:23:19,089 --> 01:23:20,319
But again, if it's

1360
01:23:21,969 --> 01:23:24,549
doing things it shouldn't do, we should take a look at that.

1361
01:23:25,209 --> 01:23:29,499
And that being said, I don't know the rest of how you guys feel, but

1362
01:23:31,509 --> 01:23:35,889
I didn't take a vote to put them up. But if it takes this board to postpone the use

1363
01:23:35,949 --> 01:23:40,929
of them until we determine that it's the appropriate mechanism for law enforcement,

1364
01:23:43,209 --> 01:23:43,959
or just a thought.

1365
01:23:45,279 --> 01:23:46,539
I'd like to take a motion to

1366
01:23:52,449 --> 01:23:55,929
block the use for 30 days and let us do our due diligence

1367
01:23:57,429 --> 01:23:58,719
and see where we are.

1368
01:24:02,559 --> 01:24:04,239
I just think we need to get some information

1369
01:24:06,189 --> 01:24:10,959
so that we can put a lot of these questions at ease that the public has.

1370
01:24:12,249 --> 01:24:14,289
Does the town lawyer have the contract?

1371
01:24:14,410 --> 01:24:18,849
She actually has it, yeah. But again, this is just-

1372
01:24:19,179 --> 01:24:21,189
Also, if Flock's changing it, we'll see.

1373
01:24:21,249 --> 01:24:26,199
But this is just-- Again, just hear me say that this is just a temporary

1374
01:24:26,919 --> 01:24:29,829
pause to what we're doing so that we can gather the information.

1375
01:24:29,889 --> 01:24:34,449
Because, one, that's going to distill into the public that, one, we're hearing you,

1376
01:24:35,259 --> 01:24:40,269
we're taking your information, we're processing it, and we're going to take a short

1377
01:24:40,329 --> 01:24:42,969
pause to get you back the information that we find.

1378
01:24:43,389 --> 01:24:47,319
And in that time, I think we should just put a pause on the Flock until a

1379
01:24:48,549 --> 01:24:54,519
set time, 30 days, or if the county needs more, then we come back and we push

1380
01:24:54,549 --> 01:24:55,419
it a little longer. But

1381
01:24:56,799 --> 01:25:00,789
just a thought. I just think that there's been enough evidence here tonight and

1382
01:25:00,819 --> 01:25:04,989
enough people showed up to support, at least

1383
01:25:06,370 --> 01:25:11,049
get some information and make sure that what's being said is accurate, not

1384
01:25:11,139 --> 01:25:13,689
accurate. Is our information safe? Is it not safe?

1385
01:25:14,019 --> 01:25:16,329
And is the tool worth having it on the streets?

1386
01:25:18,789 --> 01:25:20,559
Can I ask you how the

1387
01:25:23,349 --> 01:25:26,949
town council's work has gone on this?

1388
01:25:27,039 --> 01:25:29,799
Council has done an initial review, and

1389
01:25:31,029 --> 01:25:36,939
council feels that council and I would be able to go back to Flock and

1390
01:25:37,029 --> 01:25:39,879
perhaps get additional safeguards.

1391
01:25:41,229 --> 01:25:44,019
Just to be clear, that has not happened yet, so I don't want to say I can guarantee

1392
01:25:44,109 --> 01:25:46,660
A, B, C. But council feels as though

1393
01:25:48,849 --> 01:25:51,429
we can go back to the drawing board and try to get additional-

1394
01:25:51,459 --> 01:25:52,149
What safeguard?

1395
01:25:52,660 --> 01:25:53,259
Excuse me?

1396
01:25:53,289 --> 01:25:54,279
What safeguard?

1397
01:25:55,660 --> 01:25:56,379
To be honest with you,

1398
01:25:58,059 --> 01:25:58,539
council has-

1399
01:25:58,539 --> 01:25:59,229
We'll report that back

1400
01:25:59,319 --> 01:26:05,019
... reviewed that and has just shared with me that there are things in the contract

1401
01:26:05,079 --> 01:26:08,919
that beyond the standard contract that Flock offers, that we can have a

1402
01:26:08,949 --> 01:26:12,189
conversation with about Flock to create a stronger legal document.

1403
01:26:12,249 --> 01:26:15,069
What that is, is something we've have a conversation initially with, the

1404
01:26:15,129 --> 01:26:19,629
negotiations with Flock cameras, and it would be presented publicly for the select

1405
01:26:19,660 --> 01:26:20,199
board to sign.

1406
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:24,129
But I mean, it would have to require that the Flock cameras do not upload to their

1407
01:26:24,189 --> 01:26:24,669
cloud.

1408
01:26:24,729 --> 01:26:25,539
Which is impossible.

1409
01:26:25,599 --> 01:26:26,739
Which will not happen.

1410
01:26:27,189 --> 01:26:27,489
Correct.

1411
01:26:27,699 --> 01:26:29,109
Right? So technically-

1412
01:26:29,169 --> 01:26:33,160
We'll do our due diligence, and we'll report back in a public capacity.

1413
01:26:33,669 --> 01:26:37,149
If you're asking them not to collect our data, they're not going to not do it

1414
01:26:37,179 --> 01:26:38,469
because they want the money.

1415
01:26:39,219 --> 01:26:41,649
Then that's how they get there. We'll be loading.

1416
01:26:41,709 --> 01:26:46,959
But I will publicly share, if I'm being tasked with working with council to create

1417
01:26:47,019 --> 01:26:51,549
a stronger document, that document will be presented in a public forum at a select

1418
01:26:51,579 --> 01:26:56,919
board meeting. The document is publicly available, and will be discussed to

1419
01:26:56,979 --> 01:26:59,439
determine whether it's meritorious to sign or not.

1420
01:26:59,499 --> 01:27:01,539
Maybe it would be a good idea to have the pause.

1421
01:27:03,249 --> 01:27:04,539
Yes, I think everybody said. Yep.

1422
01:27:05,709 --> 01:27:07,899
Mr. Chair, I make a motion that would pause the Flock-

1423
01:27:07,959 --> 01:27:08,529
They're trying

1424
01:27:08,620 --> 01:27:12,370
... for the term of 30 days, unless an extension is needed.

1425
01:27:16,539 --> 01:27:18,099
I'm sorry, we didn't hear a vote.

1426
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:22,419
I made a motion to postpone Flock for 30 days unless further time is needed.

1427
01:27:22,749 --> 01:27:23,979
It hasn't been seconded. They're trying to.

1428
01:27:24,219 --> 01:27:25,269
We're working on that.

1429
01:27:25,749 --> 01:27:26,709
It hasn't been seconded.

1430
01:27:27,639 --> 01:27:29,079
Who's going to second it?

1431
01:27:30,219 --> 01:27:31,509
Be brave. Be brave.

1432
01:27:38,319 --> 01:27:39,489
Any further discussion?

1433
01:27:42,699 --> 01:27:48,399
Can we second the motion?

1434
01:27:48,489 --> 01:27:49,239
All in favor?

1435
01:27:49,329 --> 01:27:49,660
Aye.

1436
01:27:49,719 --> 01:27:49,839
Aye.

1437
01:27:51,069 --> 01:27:51,309
Thank you.

1438
01:27:53,289 --> 01:27:56,919
So we voted to postpone it for 30 days. Is this where we are?

1439
01:27:56,949 --> 01:27:57,370
Thank you.

1440
01:27:57,609 --> 01:27:57,879
Yep.

1441
01:28:01,959 --> 01:28:03,279
Thank you very much for coming.

1442
01:28:08,859 --> 01:28:12,459
We will have another meeting on this at the end of the 30 days.

1443
01:28:15,910 --> 01:28:19,269
And if we need more time, we'll let everyone know, and we won't bring them on until

1444
01:28:19,299 --> 01:28:20,079
we make a formal decision.

1445
01:28:20,109 --> 01:28:22,749
Again, this isn't like the cameras are coming down, you're going to drive by them,

1446
01:28:22,809 --> 01:28:25,149
and they're going to be down, gone. That's not what we did here.

1447
01:28:25,209 --> 01:28:28,689
This is back gathering time. I'm sorry?

1448
01:28:28,749 --> 01:28:30,639
How do we know that they're actually not working?

1449
01:28:30,698 --> 01:28:32,529
We just told you we're suspending it.

1450
01:28:32,649 --> 01:28:32,889
All right.

1451
01:28:32,979 --> 01:28:34,389
And that's what we're doing.

1452
01:28:35,139 --> 01:28:38,349
So obviously it doesn't happen like that. I'm going to have to go in.

1453
01:28:38,859 --> 01:28:42,370
But it doesn't matter. Just because he said it, it doesn't mean they shut down

1454
01:28:42,429 --> 01:28:45,969
outside right now. He's not all powerful, so obviously I'm going

1455
01:28:47,199 --> 01:28:50,799
to have to call them tomorrow and start the process of shutting down the cameras.

1456
01:28:51,639 --> 01:28:54,339
Okay. I don't think anybody's working right now that I can call, so.

1457
01:28:54,579 --> 01:28:57,099
No, I see that. I'm just saying, that's why I was saying it

1458
01:28:58,779 --> 01:29:02,979
But please, know that this isn't just the select board voted to take them down.

1459
01:29:03,039 --> 01:29:03,399
Right.

1460
01:29:03,489 --> 01:29:09,009
We are just voting to pause the cameras until we can gather our information.

1461
01:29:09,579 --> 01:29:15,279
One, the contract that we need to make sure the contract is valid and up to date,

1462
01:29:15,819 --> 01:29:18,699
and appropriate, and then we'll get back to you.

1463
01:29:18,759 --> 01:29:19,329
Thank you.

1464
01:29:19,389 --> 01:29:19,660
All right.

1465
01:29:20,049 --> 01:29:21,309
Thank you.

1466
01:29:21,399 --> 01:29:23,229
I'm sorry if I'm late, but I have one question.

1467
01:29:23,259 --> 01:29:27,069
It's a rather different course around to a road, in respect to the shutdown.

1468
01:29:27,129 --> 01:29:27,279
And

1469
01:29:29,949 --> 01:29:32,739
I know, I'm pleased that you are putting the effort in.

1470
01:29:32,979 --> 01:29:35,769
You are in to use them as well as you can.

1471
01:29:37,569 --> 01:29:41,649
Pausing them, as I understand it, with Flock, so they're connected,

1472
01:29:42,879 --> 01:29:47,109
they're still reading the data, and that's my reservation. I agree.

1473
01:29:47,319 --> 01:29:53,229
I believe it is a fundamental violation of privacy that is collected, stored

1474
01:29:53,319 --> 01:29:58,899
forever, and sold. That's my objection to it, and it is

1475
01:29:58,959 --> 01:29:59,620
unfortunate

1476
01:30:01,029 --> 01:30:06,429
that that also, or fortunate, I guess, it has two benefits to you and saves lives.

1477
01:30:07,419 --> 01:30:12,699
I think the risk is much greater, and I don't think any of us in this room

1478
01:30:12,759 --> 01:30:14,859
understands those potential risks yet.

1479
01:30:17,049 --> 01:30:21,879
So I would just ask to confirm that the pause in fact means they're not reading the

1480
01:30:21,879 --> 01:30:22,449
data.

1481
01:30:23,829 --> 01:30:26,049
Like I said, as soon as I get back to work tomorrow-

1482
01:30:26,109 --> 01:30:27,459
That's all I wanted

1483
01:30:27,519 --> 01:30:28,449
... I will email Al

1484
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:31,870
... because as I understand it, if they're connected, they're reading.

1485
01:30:32,649 --> 01:30:36,489
And you may not have access to it. They can shut it off to you.

1486
01:30:36,729 --> 01:30:36,729
Yeah.

1487
01:30:36,759 --> 01:30:38,889
But Flock is the one that's in control.

1488
01:30:38,919 --> 01:30:42,039
So I will contact them tomorrow, and I will relay that to the select board, letting

1489
01:30:42,069 --> 01:30:44,589
them know that I'll have to try to get something in writing from them.

1490
01:30:45,669 --> 01:30:49,419
Obviously, I see this different than everybody, because I've had to have dead

1491
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:51,039
people in my arms, and I've had

1492
01:30:52,389 --> 01:30:54,370
to go to people's houses and say, "Hey, listen,

1493
01:30:56,109 --> 01:31:00,849
your son is dead from this." Or, I've been with somebody as they died in my arms,

1494
01:31:00,969 --> 01:31:05,379
too. And if these cameras can help save lives, that's why I had them up there, so.

1495
01:31:05,410 --> 01:31:06,160
And there are-

1496
01:31:06,489 --> 01:31:10,719
If it's our own cameras, couldn't the police have their own cameras?

1497
01:31:10,839 --> 01:31:11,079
Yeah.

1498
01:31:11,169 --> 01:31:13,299
You have your cameras in town-

1499
01:31:13,899 --> 01:31:13,899
Yeah

1500
01:31:13,929 --> 01:31:15,219
... to do the surveillance you need.

1501
01:31:15,279 --> 01:31:19,329
We'd have to make up our own kind of camera system, data system.

1502
01:31:20,349 --> 01:31:21,639
No, any teenager could do it.

1503
01:31:23,709 --> 01:31:26,679
All right. Well, I guess I'm sorry. I guess I'm not that good.

1504
01:31:26,709 --> 01:31:27,399
I guarantee you-

1505
01:31:27,429 --> 01:31:29,349
Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

1506
01:31:29,410 --> 01:31:31,509
I guarantee you, extremely could do it for free

1507
01:31:32,085 --> 01:31:36,045
We pause it for 30 days- We pause it for 30 days ... please. Yep.

1508
01:31:36,945 --> 01:31:41,475
We're done with the discussion. We will get back to you in 30 days.

1509
01:31:42,106 --> 01:31:43,635
But when is the next meeting?

1510
01:31:44,566 --> 01:31:46,066
It most likely won't be the next meeting.

1511
01:31:46,095 --> 01:31:49,965
The meetings are the first and the third Mondays of the month.

1512
01:31:50,235 --> 01:31:50,385
Okay.

1513
01:31:50,415 --> 01:31:52,725
So it won't be the next one. It could be the one after that.

1514
01:31:53,175 --> 01:31:55,695
And if we are not ready, then it will be postponed.

1515
01:31:55,785 --> 01:31:56,235
Okay.

1516
01:31:57,615 --> 01:32:00,255
Will that be in the notices for the Wanderer or-

1517
01:32:00,705 --> 01:32:05,625
I will post an agenda, and we will post it on the-

1518
01:32:06,106 --> 01:32:06,915
Town website

1519
01:32:06,945 --> 01:32:09,735
... town website. We won't post for this in the Wanderer.

1520
01:32:09,826 --> 01:32:11,115
I'll post something on Facebook.

1521
01:32:12,735 --> 01:32:13,335
I'm not on Facebook.

1522
01:32:13,425 --> 01:32:13,695
We don't

1523
01:32:15,975 --> 01:32:16,245
do

1524
01:32:19,545 --> 01:32:20,264
Facebook.

1525
01:32:20,326 --> 01:32:23,566
Keanu doesn't like Facebook. All right. That's another thing.

1526
01:32:23,595 --> 01:32:26,175
Okay. Thank you. Moving on.

1527
01:32:26,445 --> 01:32:28,816
Thank you.

1528
01:32:28,875 --> 01:32:33,705
Under correspondence, we have a resignation letter for the events committee,

1529
01:32:35,295 --> 01:32:36,735
member Renee Duffy.

1530
01:32:37,995 --> 01:32:42,705
I move to accept the resignation of Renee Duffy from the events committee and thank

1531
01:32:42,735 --> 01:32:45,285
her for her service to the town. Second.

1532
01:32:47,115 --> 01:32:47,895
All in favor?

1533
01:32:48,165 --> 01:32:48,405
Aye.

1534
01:32:49,845 --> 01:32:49,875
Aye.

1535
01:32:49,935 --> 01:32:51,405
And we should send her a-

1536
01:32:52,245 --> 01:32:52,935
Thank you. Thank you.

1537
01:32:53,145 --> 01:32:54,585
Thank you for her letter.

1538
01:32:54,645 --> 01:32:56,625
You're welcome.

1539
01:32:56,685 --> 01:32:58,935
Town administrator's report. Okay.

1540
01:33:00,495 --> 01:33:04,095
I hope it's apparent, especially on nights like this, that I really like my job.

1541
01:33:04,935 --> 01:33:09,705
The toughest part, or my least favorite part, the only part, is procurement.

1542
01:33:10,125 --> 01:33:16,005
I find the state can be incredibly convoluted with how it sets up its procurement

1543
01:33:16,035 --> 01:33:20,835
law, and I finally achieved my MCPPO, which is a certification for public

1544
01:33:20,865 --> 01:33:26,835
procurement. So that is behind me, and I'm happy to have that out of the

1545
01:33:26,865 --> 01:33:29,895
way, because that is some convoluted stuff there.

1546
01:33:30,885 --> 01:33:31,035
So

1547
01:33:32,385 --> 01:33:35,235
I'm very pleased with myself. I'm patting myself on the back all the time because I

1548
01:33:35,265 --> 01:33:35,595
still want to-

1549
01:33:41,685 --> 01:33:46,545
As we are getting ready to start the budget process, which will begin in early

1550
01:33:46,576 --> 01:33:49,455
December, my other favorite part of the year,

1551
01:33:51,675 --> 01:33:53,775
we have some additional financial information.

1552
01:33:53,865 --> 01:33:59,715
So Plymouth County has the town's pension fund.

1553
01:34:00,106 --> 01:34:05,295
And so the actuary study every two years, it just came out, and it saw the

1554
01:34:05,385 --> 01:34:10,005
town's year-over-year increase to be $134,000.

1555
01:34:10,485 --> 01:34:16,335
ORR, the district's annual pension increase, was $191,000.

1556
01:34:16,695 --> 01:34:22,606
So the county has added an additional year to its

1557
01:34:22,695 --> 01:34:28,485
goal to be fully funded in 2032. The law requires it to be funded in 2040,

1558
01:34:28,845 --> 01:34:32,235
but the county will be funded in 2032.

1559
01:34:33,015 --> 01:34:38,175
So if the town roughly will have $900,000 in new revenue for

1560
01:34:38,326 --> 01:34:42,945
FY28, for FY27, we're now $134,000

1561
01:34:44,445 --> 01:34:44,895
towards

1562
01:34:46,574 --> 01:34:49,005
hitting the threshold of what we have.

1563
01:34:49,606 --> 01:34:51,255
So we still will be waiting on

1564
01:34:52,905 --> 01:34:56,055
minimum contribution that the state requires to support our four school

1565
01:34:56,115 --> 01:34:57,795
partnerships that we have.

1566
01:34:59,175 --> 01:35:04,725
But this is a very difficult number to swallow, most

1567
01:35:04,755 --> 01:35:09,525
certainly. So I believe this is predicting, and to no surprise, and if you follow

1568
01:35:09,555 --> 01:35:15,405
the FY27 budget process, but this is predicting another very tight budget year.

1569
01:35:16,545 --> 01:35:19,035
So I guess I wanted to let that be known.

1570
01:35:20,475 --> 01:35:26,295
A couple of updates. The town has always had a great relationship

1571
01:35:26,326 --> 01:35:28,455
with our community specialist through Eversource,

1572
01:35:29,865 --> 01:35:35,715
and we now have a new person. Her name is Katrina Ferrera, and I

1573
01:35:35,745 --> 01:35:37,845
met with her, and she seems incredibly engaging.

1574
01:35:38,235 --> 01:35:43,606
And I think if you've lived in town long enough, you've seen that many times we're

1575
01:35:43,606 --> 01:35:46,305
in a big storm, it can take a long time to get back up and running.

1576
01:35:46,545 --> 01:35:52,515
And I think over time, that relationship has greatly improved with our previous

1577
01:35:53,205 --> 01:35:54,405
representative with Eversource.

1578
01:35:54,465 --> 01:35:59,055
Jeff is very pleased with the communication that we built with Eversource.

1579
01:35:59,985 --> 01:36:04,305
And so I know that this success will continue now with Katrina.

1580
01:36:05,595 --> 01:36:09,735
I attended the Town Foundation's fifth annual block party, and I just want to say

1581
01:36:09,826 --> 01:36:13,005
thank you again to the friends group for pivoting and

1582
01:36:14,505 --> 01:36:18,705
coming indoors after Nor'easter and continuing to raise money for

1583
01:36:20,775 --> 01:36:24,405
our building expansion. And so I appreciate their efforts.

1584
01:36:25,785 --> 01:36:30,525
I met with a boy representative just to learn more about the town's 457 plans that

1585
01:36:30,555 --> 01:36:32,475
we offer, so we can give better service to residents.

1586
01:36:33,076 --> 01:36:36,525
We met with Tom DiPaolo, our representative from Maya.

1587
01:36:36,585 --> 01:36:42,106
They do all of our property and casualty insurance and our workers' compensation.

1588
01:36:42,135 --> 01:36:46,965
And this is the one line item that we're seeing to be relatively

1589
01:36:47,595 --> 01:36:53,235
stable as different things are getting more expensive, health insurance, et cetera.

1590
01:36:54,405 --> 01:36:59,385
We've made some great gains in making savings here, changing plans, and I

1591
01:36:59,415 --> 01:37:00,225
appreciate

1592
01:37:02,085 --> 01:37:07,576
the work that Maya has done, knowing that like every town, towns are feeling the

1593
01:37:07,635 --> 01:37:11,055
pinch. And so steady the course there.

1594
01:37:11,115 --> 01:37:12,675
We won't be making any changes to

1595
01:37:14,505 --> 01:37:16,905
the town's coverages and levels that we have.

1596
01:37:17,356 --> 01:37:20,925
I met with Michelle Kirby, a member of the Conservation Commission, to talk about

1597
01:37:21,135 --> 01:37:26,205
the financial structure around the Conservation Commission and the 53G accounts,

1598
01:37:26,235 --> 01:37:32,175
the money that we take in if someone needs to do work at their home or

1599
01:37:32,205 --> 01:37:37,875
on a site. And that money is normally used for peer reviews, engineering, and

1600
01:37:37,905 --> 01:37:41,925
consulting. So we just want to have a conversation about that.

1601
01:37:43,425 --> 01:37:49,066
I scheduled an appraiser to look at the YMCA site off of Snow's Pond Road.

1602
01:37:49,365 --> 01:37:52,545
So that has not happened yet, but we are moving forward accordingly.

1603
01:37:53,415 --> 01:37:58,515
I met with a representative from the New England Rodeo who has requested that we go

1604
01:37:58,606 --> 01:38:01,816
into negotiations about extending

1605
01:38:03,316 --> 01:38:06,885
their license agreement for additional years.

1606
01:38:06,975 --> 01:38:10,395
So I'll have that conversation with them, and I'll present that for this board to

1607
01:38:10,455 --> 01:38:11,415
consider and to sign.

1608
01:38:13,695 --> 01:38:17,745
Marsha Kessler, the town's grant writer, and myself met with an engineering firm

1609
01:38:17,805 --> 01:38:23,415
called Pare, P-A-R-E, and we had conversations about

1610
01:38:23,505 --> 01:38:27,375
trying to obtain grants to do studies.

1611
01:38:27,375 --> 01:38:32,055
And this is one of my biggest concerns and goals that I hope to achieve as your

1612
01:38:32,115 --> 01:38:36,555
town administrator, looking at water resources that we have in town and studying

1613
01:38:36,585 --> 01:38:40,816
the aquifer to see how stressed private wells are.

1614
01:38:41,326 --> 01:38:46,005
Twenty-five years from now, generations from now, will we have enough water to

1615
01:38:46,066 --> 01:38:51,945
support private wells when we have cities to the north of us in Bray Quick

1616
01:38:52,005 --> 01:38:56,805
is pulling out 160% of the safe yields, and you have the three towns below us

1617
01:38:58,485 --> 01:38:59,865
selling water from

1618
01:39:01,395 --> 01:39:03,945
flowing out of Stipp and out of the Mattapoisett River Valley.

1619
01:39:04,665 --> 01:39:10,545
And so my goal is once we have an engineering study that says, "Wells

1620
01:39:10,576 --> 01:39:14,295
are fine. You can have another 20,000 people move in," or, "Wells are stressed.

1621
01:39:14,566 --> 01:39:18,375
We have a problem here," then we can go to the DEP with that information, and we

1622
01:39:18,405 --> 01:39:23,566
can talk about trying to secure additional water rights for the town.

1623
01:39:23,955 --> 01:39:25,125
So we're working on that now.

1624
01:39:28,245 --> 01:39:29,535
I met with

1625
01:39:31,485 --> 01:39:35,415
Ms. Lopes, I believe she's president of the ORR Education Foundation, and gave them

1626
01:39:35,445 --> 01:39:38,445
some additional grant opportunities.

1627
01:39:39,405 --> 01:39:45,076
And then I had an update from Superintendent Polanski of Old Colony, just getting

1628
01:39:45,106 --> 01:39:46,035
an update on

1629
01:39:47,955 --> 01:39:50,205
their budget process early on.

1630
01:39:52,395 --> 01:39:55,455
And then finally, I am taking some courses at Suffolk University.

1631
01:39:56,175 --> 01:39:56,595
Busy.

1632
01:39:58,485 --> 01:40:01,185
Very busy. Regional government and federalism,

1633
01:40:02,805 --> 01:40:07,365
and that give and take between what can be done at the federal level versus the

1634
01:40:07,395 --> 01:40:11,655
state versus local, up, down, what have you. And then e-government.

1635
01:40:12,045 --> 01:40:14,475
So it's been a busy month.

1636
01:40:19,215 --> 01:40:20,925
Thank you. Thanks for staying here.

1637
01:40:21,225 --> 01:40:22,245
Just a joy to be here.

1638
01:40:24,015 --> 01:40:24,525
You'll be all right.

1639
01:40:25,695 --> 01:40:27,076
My contract's up in June.

1640
01:40:29,205 --> 01:40:29,985
That's what I'm going to talk about at the town meeting, all right?

1641
01:40:31,066 --> 01:40:31,185
Yeah.

1642
01:40:32,685 --> 01:40:34,335
Out of the budget town meeting came up, certainly.

1643
01:40:35,566 --> 01:40:37,395
Very good. That's all I have.

1644
01:40:37,695 --> 01:40:38,205
Thank you, sir.

1645
01:40:38,265 --> 01:40:38,655
Thank you.

1646
01:40:40,155 --> 01:40:45,856
Okay, action items. Lions Club request to use town hall parking lot on October

1647
01:40:45,915 --> 01:40:49,725
17th for recycling event. So moved. Second.

1648
01:40:51,885 --> 01:40:53,295
Lorraine, do you have anything to add?

1649
01:40:55,305 --> 01:40:56,595
You got it. You got it.

1650
01:40:57,735 --> 01:40:59,445
Everyone should bring their junk.

1651
01:41:02,326 --> 01:41:07,935
Basically, if it has an electric cord, it should be recycled through this

1652
01:41:08,025 --> 01:41:09,885
event, not in the trash.

1653
01:41:11,235 --> 01:41:12,135
Broken radio.

1654
01:41:12,675 --> 01:41:18,585
Actually, no, that's not

1655
01:41:18,675 --> 01:41:18,915
the

1656
01:41:20,566 --> 01:41:20,715
case.

1657
01:41:20,805 --> 01:41:21,525
Lorraine, you all set?

1658
01:41:22,755 --> 01:41:23,175
Yes, sir.

1659
01:41:23,295 --> 01:41:26,025
Speaking of parking lots, the highway department has started.

1660
01:41:26,715 --> 01:41:27,495
They've got engineering

1661
01:41:28,995 --> 01:41:33,045
plans, and they're working on our parking lot behind town hall, that bump-out that

1662
01:41:33,076 --> 01:41:33,435
we did.

1663
01:41:33,525 --> 01:41:34,335
Oh, good.

1664
01:41:34,365 --> 01:41:35,835
Thank you, Mr. Eldridge.

1665
01:41:35,925 --> 01:41:36,345
Yes.

1666
01:41:38,895 --> 01:41:42,345
Do you have anything? No. That's all.

1667
01:41:42,405 --> 01:41:43,485
Can I just add one thing?

1668
01:41:45,285 --> 01:41:49,455
Email and pause and process started. It'll take in effect tomorrow morning.

1669
01:41:50,085 --> 01:41:50,805
Wow. Thank you.

1670
01:41:51,435 --> 01:41:51,615
Yep.

1671
01:41:52,066 --> 01:41:53,535
He goes and adds that, and we

1672
01:41:53,625 --> 01:41:59,025
can't say anything.

1673
01:41:59,326 --> 01:42:00,555
Just has to do that, huh?

1674
01:42:03,045 --> 01:42:04,695
The police, huh?

1675
01:42:05,356 --> 01:42:05,805
No, I mean,

1676
01:42:07,155 --> 01:42:08,205
I do my job.

1677
01:42:08,326 --> 01:42:12,165
I'm just doing my job. I'm trying to keep people safe in Rochester. That's it.

1678
01:42:15,345 --> 01:42:18,015
Is there any other public comment about anything else?

1679
01:42:20,055 --> 01:42:20,685
Hearing none,

1680
01:42:22,606 --> 01:42:26,445
make a motion to go into executive session for so reason as stated by the chair.

1681
01:42:26,625 --> 01:42:32,145
Second. And we'll be returning into open session following.

1682
01:42:32,265 --> 01:42:34,156
All in favor? Aye. Aye.

1683
01:42:34,185 --> 01:42:35,355
Thank you guys again for coming.

1684
01:42:35,776 --> 01:42:35,985
Thank you.