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Please rise as you're able for the pledge of allegiance.

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Welcome everybody to our August 17th regular city council meeting. We have a quite packed agenda.

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and we have opportunities for many members of the public to speak. So we are going to start

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our meeting as we always do with our open comment period. And this is an opportunity for

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members of the public to speak on items that we will not be taking a public testimony during a

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public hearing later in the agenda. During open comment, members of the public have up to two minutes

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to speak for a total of 20 minutes, however the council is able to suspend our rules and open

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that up if we need to. I will be keeping track through two methods. One, the stop light here

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in front of me and you the speaker and the digital clock on the wall that will be to your right.

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And I request that each speaker be concise to allow as many people to speak during the designated time as possible.

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Participants are also encouraged to limit comments generally to topics that are within the scope and jurisdiction of the Council's ability to affect policy.

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Council members and staff do not respond directly to your comments during public comment, but will instead follow up on any specific requests separately.

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If you have any materials to share with the council, you may give them to the city clerk who is to my right there and casele to distribute and you will be invited up to speak in the order in which you signed up and we will start with Mr. Jared Locker.

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And Jared, you may have to push that till it turns clear.

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Jared Locker, resident Rochester.

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Good evening Mayor Norton, council members, fellow citizens and distinguished guests.

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I want to speak with you tonight about the proposal for additions of student housing to the historic Broadway district, which would affect

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TREDOM, art heads and podium, steam cafe, and many other retail businesses located on Broadway.

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When I take into account the recommendations of the Heritage Preservation Commission,

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the existing businesses, the planned development, the incredible amount of road construction currently, the voices of the business owners in the area, and the nature of the project.

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I ask that you respectfully decline the request.

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When it comes to preserving Rochester's history, it is important that we not only consider

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the economic implications of such reservations, but the character of the city, and the meaning

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it has not only to every day citizens, but those who currently occupy the buildings.

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While I agree there is a need for student housing.

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When I consider all the factors, I do not believe this is the appropriate project, and there

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are other viable alternatives that must be considered.

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Analyze and discussed with the larger public.

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We must preserve not only our historic district, but the arts and the character of our

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city, as well as consider the deleterious effects more construction may have on existing businesses,

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and the pressure that we have to do.

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There are already under not to mention disruptions to already limited parking. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. Locker. And I just want to be clear to folks that Mr. Locker spoke to item G1. There will be a separate hearing under G1. So if you signed up on the blue sheet and you want to speak to item G1, which is the appeal to the Historic Preservation Committee's denial of certificate of appropriateness,

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You may want to be on this sheet and when we do get to public hearings,

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not that I'm encouraging you to do it, you will have five minutes at a public hearing.

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I'm not encouraging people to take five minutes,

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but you will have more time during that.

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So just to be clear and I didn't want to interrupt Mr. Lucker.

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So we will continue with open comment period with Jessica Sia.

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I will put you on that sheet.

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Thank you.

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Next, we have Carol and Lumis.

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Hi, I'm Carol and Lumis.

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I would like to thank the mayor for giving us this opportunity to look at this again.

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I am talking about the H.0.2 Willow Creek Feasibility Study.

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Both of reports narratives from September 25th and this one focus on connecting people to

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the jobs, food sources and school, which sounds lovely, but this, but truly this feasibility

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reports, sole focus, and one track plan is the connection to the sports complex.

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Not connecting the people to these important community needs since those plans are unfunded

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at this time.

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So, I please ask the council to vote nay on accepting the report and nay on the segment

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one-see alternative A, which divides my family's property and look at how we can connect

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The people's needs first then add the sports complex after, which again, can be done without segment one C alternative A.

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Thank you. Next we have Jesse Loomis.

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Hi, I'm Jesse Loomis talking about the Willow Creek like project as well.

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I believe Pat, you guys all got to copy of this.

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Why are we trying to cut through the middle of our property when we have all these other alternatives

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and according to Dylan over here who at the beginning of us, when we talked, he was going to do

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the feasibility studies and all these routes we discussed, which none of them were done except for

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one. We don't understand why now you guys own the other side of the highway by in Whitesons,

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you have the dike that goes around the whistle-bakeies pond, you have the ability to go on all the

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two down and going on the west side of the bridge coming under, going around the pond and in

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your last little branch you had coming off that would connect you down to whistle thinkies.

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You could bring all that in, cut out all this bike path on the east side of that creek,

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which you're worried about the bridge. You don't have to make a bridge. You can come under here

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and your little branch that would come back to the sports complex can all be done in one shot.

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You don't have to build this whole bike path here, which will bring you to all the communities down here at the school whistle-binkies channel one. It'll bring you

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I mean if you can see it is a red line on your on your map here, but there's no reason to come through the middle of our property for the spike path when there's any other alternative.

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I mean at the end of the day it comes down to there's no reason to take something from somebody that does not want to give it.

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if there's any other alternative.

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At the end of the day, it's on voting for a bike path.

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It's voting to steal from people that aren't willing to sell something.

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So that's the most I can say about it.

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But there's ungodly opportunities with all the current bike paths you got.

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This is the quickest road to get you to the one you already have established.

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Thank you, Mr. Loomis.

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Next we have Michelle Girls Burger.

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G1, I'll put you down for G1.

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Jacqueline Johnson.

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Good evening, Mayor and council members. My name is Jacqueline Johnson. I'm the managing director of Rochester Civic Theatre, and a board member of Minnesota citizens for the arts, and a member of the Rochester Arts and Culture Strategic Plan, steering committee.

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I'm here in support of the proposed council action to fund an arts and culture,

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arts and culture, economic impact study for Rochester.

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Across Minnesota, Arts and Culture represents a $13.8 billion industry.

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In 2024, the nonprofit arts and culture sector in Region 10, which includes Rochester,

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generated more than $86.8 million in economic impact,

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And across the state, the average arts attendees spend more than $33 beyond the price of admission

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to on restaurants, hotels, gas, shopping, and other local businesses.

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But statewide and region-ten data only tells us part of the story.

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We need a clear, Rochester-specific picture of this sector's economic impact.

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That's what this study will provide. The findings will be a community resource for strategic planning

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and future advocacy. This study can identify opportunities for growth and investment, informed

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decisions by arts organizations, by businesses, tourism partners, funders, and the city.

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In arts and culture economic impact study, also perfectly compliments the experience

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Rochester study through the Minnesota Tourism Center, giving our community a more complete

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picture of how arts, culture, entertainment, and attractions contribute to Rochester's economy.

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This investment is one piece of a much larger effort from the arts for the Rochester Arts

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and Culture of Strategic Plants during Committee, supported by active research, data, and

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countless volunteer hours.

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Thank you for your consideration.

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Thank you.

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Next we have Rylan Wolff.

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Good

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afternoon. I would like to voice my support for Miss Jacqueline's wish for the advancement of Rochester's art culture. Otherwise, I feel like my points have been spoken for already. I'll equip my enough and I would like to give up my time. Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Next, we have Stephanie Kylen.

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Good evening.

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My name is Stephanie Kylen, and I'm here representing

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Arts and Culturals Strategic Plan Steering Committee,

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and speaking in support of tonight's Council

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initiated action item to fund an economic impact study

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for this sector.

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The Arts and Culturals Strategic Plan and Steering Committee

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was created to formally identify the needs and challenges

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within Rochester's Arts and Cultural Landscape

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through a community research process

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With broad representation from across the sector, our goal is to find solutions and create a long-range strategic plan for a thriving arts and cultural landscape.

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Over the last year, 80 arts and cultural arts and cultural organizations have participated in our process

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and are searing committee represents 12 organizations from both nonprofit and for-profit arts and cultural sectors.

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We are structured to include participation from new groups at any point within our process.

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I became a member of this year in committee through my work at Rochester Symphony.

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Last spring, this project was accepted into the Chris Nelson Community-Based Research Program

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at the University of Minnesota, also known as Kira.

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The program supports community-based initiatives like ours at no cost.

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Along with methods such as stakeholder mapping and focus groups and important next step is to conduct

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an economic impact study.

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Well, all the work so far has been conducted through volunteer hours and through cure

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a resources, the economic impact study is one piece of the research that we can not conduct

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ourselves.

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And they mean unique nature of our group and our strategic planning focus, make us in

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eligible for many grants and other funding opportunities that we've explored.

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Funding the study through Council initiated action will allow us to continue moving forward

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at a critical point in our process.

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The current conversations and questions about what we are doing in Rochester that impacts our arts and cultural landscape make this work especially timely.

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The next step in our process could not be more beneficial than it is right now.

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Thank you for your consideration.

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Thank you, Ms. Biden.

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Next we have Terry Kinsey.

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Members of the Rochester City Council, Mayor Norton,

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and members of the Rochester community.

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I'm Terry Goss Kinsey, Ward 5 Resident and Chair.

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Of the Rochester Sustainability and Resiliency Commission. On behalf of the Commission, I am here to express our support in advancing the community focus sustainability pilot programs that will be discussed at this meeting.

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The Commission recognizes the extensive community engagement effort completed by city staff during the natural gas franchise fee discussion.

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Commissioners were also highly engaged in that process and appreciated the emphasis on transparency, a fortability and visible community benefit.

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Community feedback reflected strong interest in local investment that reduced household energy costs,

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support renters and lower income households, and contribute to Rochester's broader sustainability and greenhouse gas reduction roles,

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goals through practical community-centered action.

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The programs that you will discuss will do just that.

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Our Commission discussions emphasize the importance of developing visible community-centered pilot programs

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that residents can directly experience and have clear and measurable outcomes.

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These programs need to be accessible to renters and households that may not traditionally benefit from existing rebate or incentive programs.

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In conclusion, the Commission believes these pilot programs provide an opportunity to demonstrate measurable community benefit such as reduced cost,

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Strength and Public Understanding and Trust, expand community participation in local climate

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actions, and inform future sustainability and resiliency investments within the City of Rochester.

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The Sustainability and Resiliency Commission appreciates Council's continued leadership in exploring

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sustainability funding and community investments strategies. Thank you.

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Thank you. Next we have Amy Cockett.

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Good evening, I'm Amy Cockett, I live at 716-28th Street in Rochester, Northwest.

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I am also a member of the League of Men Voters.

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The League of Men Voters is a national state and local organization, always nonpartisan.

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We defend democracy and power voters, but we also study issues and then take stance.

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One of the issues that we've studied thoroughly is the environment.

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Our position on that is the League of Min voters supports action by appropriate levels of government

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to encourage the use of renewable resources and energy conservation through funding for research and development, financial incentives,

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rate-sitting policies and mandatory standards.

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The League urges you to fund the Sustainability Commission's pilot program request tonight found in number H3.

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We also remind you of one of your adopted 2627 recommended budget strategic priorities which

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is responsible environmental stewardship in your budget program says of these strategic priorities.

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We will focus our resources and initiatives to drive progress in this area and here is your

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chance.

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H3.

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Please vote yes.

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Tonight.

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And I will free it my seat and go home and watch you online.

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Thank you, Ms. Cockett.

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Next up, we have Nells Pearson.

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Hey, good evening.

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Thank you.

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I'm Mayor Norton.

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I'm Nells Pearson.

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I am a candidate running for Minnesota Senate District 24.

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Just here tonight by way of introduction.

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And as always, appreciate the hard work that you all do for the city of Rochester.

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I have been up and running as a candidate since May and in that time, we've attended City Council

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and Township meetings in 24 jurisdictions.

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We'll be wrapping that up this week and completing our final Township meeting to have attended

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a Township meeting in each of the Townships that I hope to represent moving forward.

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So I always just want to thank everything that you do.

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I was telling a story about our farming, our neighbors in farming,

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to internship and how when one superintendent's giving the

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roads report, another superintendent says,

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well, how are the Johnsons doing with the repaying of the roads?

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And they reply, well, they're waving at me again.

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And so, you as city council people, you get to deal with that every day.

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You see it more personally in the grocery stores,

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and you live with us, you are amongst us.

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And it's certainly something that I don't take lightly,

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and appreciate the service that you provide.

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I just always ask that should I be so fortunate to be elected

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that you would be my eyes on those township roads

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and in the city of Rochester and the grocery stores,

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letting me know if there's any issues or problems

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that the status causing that would prevent anyone from waving at us again.

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So thank you for so much for the time and have a great evening.

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Thank you, Mr. Pearson. Next, we have Kyle Pike.

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Good evening. Madame Mayor, esteemed members of the Rochester City Council. I come to you tonight on

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less grave circumstances than January, so I'll be a little walk back from that. But I come here

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to speak on behalf of my friends and neighbors to advocate for local businesses and you'll

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have to forgive me. I'm not as prepared as it was in January. But for generations, the city

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of Rochester has relied heavily in small businesses, which are and will continue to serve as

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the lifeblood of this city.

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As you are well aware, many thousands of Rochester area residents work or operate small businesses

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and various parts of Oamstead County, and we all rely on one or another to help keep our local

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businesses thriving and successful.

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Although the over-privileged and lordly members of its board of directors are today, scarcely

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likely to admit it, even the illustrious male clinic and Saint Mary's hospital were once a

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small business practice operating right on what was then zumbro street and what is today

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second street. These corporate overlords could forsake the entirety of my hometown,

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for greed and profit and sleep sound, soundly, for their evil. Many thousands of their staffers,

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doctors, nurses, and employees trample upon the backs of hometown kids like me, without even

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thinking twice of the pillaging they do to the businesses, neighborhoods, and former

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heritable architectural spaces, they demolish and level in the name of corporate profitable

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greed.

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Each one of you need to wake up to the reality of obnoxious construction noise and cluttered

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city streets that bury the rotting bones of what was once my hometown.

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You have all had a helping hand in corrupting Rochester and to incorporate money funnel for the only and biggest game in a town built now around and allegedly not for profit medical industry that mutated out of what was begun as an altruistic investment in the Miller's farmers and laborers who built this city.

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Thank you Mr. Pike.

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Next up, that will, that concludes our open comment period, and I am going to, I'm going

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to say this again when we do have our public hearings and I didn't say anything during open

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comment, but we have 40 people that are signed up for G1 and applause will just take away

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time from people's presentation.

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And so please just be respectful to all speakers and remain silent in between the speakers.

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Thank you.

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With that, I will call on Clarke Kassel to call the roll.

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Good evening.

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Council Member Keen.

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Council Member Miller.

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Council Member Wall.

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Council Member Fredericks.

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Here.

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Council Member Palmer.

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Here.

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Council Member Doring.

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Here.

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Council President Schubering.

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Mayor Norton.

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Present.

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Thank you. Next up, we have our City Administrators report. Administrator Zelms, please take it away.

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Thank you. Council President, Mayor. Members of the Council, lots of members of the community that are here today.

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I just wanted to start off as I always do with thanking all of our teammates for acting with respect integrity, safety and excellence in mind and everything that they do.

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Out of respect for the many speakers that are forthcoming. I will zip through this.

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We do have our final two board concerts coming up this Wednesday, the 19th at White Oaks Park,

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Reigns with Jojo Green and next Wednesday, August 26th, me like these with scorched waves,

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we'll be at Cook Park, they'll start at 5.30 and go and tell about 7.45 pm. So be happy to

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join everyone there. Also, we are looking for feedback about the Silver Lake skate park expansion,

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so if that's something that you're interested in, there will be opportunity for feedback that

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last week. There's a brief online survey and that is running through Friday, August 28th. You

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can find it on RochesterMN.gov to take the survey. There's press release there. It's also on

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our social media. We are nearing the end of summer. So I'm sorry to say the closing dates for pools

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and beaches as well as splash pads. Silver Lake pool closed yesterday. Soldier's Field Aquatic

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Center will close on Sunday, August 23rd and beaches splash pads will be open through Monday,

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September 7th, which is Labor Day. So, enjoy that while it lasts. Our last

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item on this agenda is about alternate side parking and snow. So, it's

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coming quickly. Storytime at White Oaks Park, White Oaks Park will be getting

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a lot of action this week. So, August 21st, on Friday, 9.30 a.m. to 10. The Rochester

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Public Library is hosting a Storytime, bring your blanket.

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If there is bad weather, but again, that will be at White Oaks Park on August 21st, now we'll turn it over to the mayor.

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Thank you, Administrator. There's sounds of Mayor Norton, take it away.

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Great. I have a couple announcements as well. First, the on Friday, so it's passed. I wanted to note that it was national emergency management awareness month.

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So we had the City Hall lights done green for them and was a nice follow-up to the

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Practice run. We did the emergency management run that we did over at Century High School. We could go. So that was good timing for that. We want to recognize them for all they do.

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We have the town hall that we're hosting called Getting Around Town. It's about all modes of transportation and Rochester. It will be Thursday, August 20th this week.

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From 6 to 730 and we move the location, we've been holding them at our CTC, but with the start of the school year, we're going to move it over to John Marshall's cafeteria, so please feel free to pop up there and I, you know, requesting the council if they're, if you're available, some of you are some of you aren't to pop up. It's really nice to have you at the tables when folks have their discussions. It's really helpful. So looking forward to that.

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We're looking at showing on September 10th, we don't have the location identified, we're

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confirming the one that we thought we had. We've moved this event called 911 reclaiming ground

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zero. This will be the 20th anniversary of 911 and some folks have done a documentary about it,

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but it's not just about 911 and what happened. That is covered in it, but it really is about how

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New York City responded using community engagement and so we would encourage you to come.

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We'll have more information as we have a location and we'll do some publicity about it so

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we'd love to have you at that. We are I will be doing we the parks department and I will be doing

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my last tree planting and for those of you that don't know our delstated this when he was mayor

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where he did tree plantings regularly.

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And I don't know how long he did it during his tenure,

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but he did it a number of times.

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And I thought it was a great idea.

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So I took it up.

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And so for the last eight years,

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I have been purchasing and working with the Parks Department

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to put in 10 trees a year.

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We'll be doing a few extra this year.

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So we will be putting in our 70th to 80th trees out at Cascade Lake.

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We've just selected Cascade Lake.

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It was a new city park.

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It needed some tree cover.

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So that's where they've all gone.

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It's been a joy to do, and if you'd like to come help us plant trees on September 17th at 9 a.m.

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If you're available, we'll be at Cascade Lake Park to put in our last seven, and there will be

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three special trees that have been purchased to honor my friend Melissa Hartman and her husband that died this year,

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so they will be putting in three crab apple trees in honor of them.

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Also, on Wednesday's September 23rd, we will be hosting the Youth Leadership and Success Summit.

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for high school students, we will be having people in a variety of businesses come talk about their careers,

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but it is also about leadership and wellness. The students have helped plan this. We will have

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if all goes well the governor and some other folks from up in the Twin Cities as well. Some really

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wonderful speakers locally and then folks that will be sharing about their own career choices and

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they got there. So that will be a day that students have off-school, September 23rd, and it

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will start around noonish and go until 7 or 8 in the evening. And we'll be at Civic Center

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and Chattoe Theatre to be fun. Last, or one of the last things I have to share, I guess, is

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that I want to thank Anna Eric Devin, Elizabeth and Chloe listed here. These are local artists

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who stepped up and you see I took one day because we had a sick day with one of the artists

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and we provided an art project for all of the summer school kids in the Rochester Public Schools

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who for whatever reason needed that extra help this summer so we supported the artists by having

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them come and the day I was there was a little simpler we painted bird houses because I am not an artist

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though I loved the arts, so it was wonderful and those five artists gave their time and talent

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to our students and it was fabulous.

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And lastly, the Sustainability Resiliency Commission takes part of our policies or our procedures

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for the city, I guess it's an ordinance says that we will have a youth member, and typically

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the youth tend to be juniors or seniors and so they go away to college and so we're often

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having every year a new youth opening, so if you know

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Any youth who are really interested in sustainability and resiliency, they could go online and apply for that position.

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And we say 16 to 21, I think, for any interest to do so. If you're interested, please go online and apply. That's all I've got.

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Thank you, Mayor. Next up, we have the order of the agenda. Are there any changes to the order of the agenda?

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I don't see any, I would recommend a motion to approve the agenda.

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Move by council member Fredericks and seconded by council member.

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Well, all in favor say aye.

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I would say nay motion passes moving on to our consent agenda.

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I have not received any notice of items to be pulled.

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Is that correct?

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If not, I'd invite a motion to approve the consent agenda.

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Second.

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moved by council member Fredericks and seconded by council member Dorang. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye.

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Poe say nay motion passes. Moving on to our public hearings. We have four public hearings on our agenda this evening.

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And before we start as I mentioned, we do have over 40 people signed up for the first public hearing. And so we do have some guidelines for that.

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First staff will make a presentation or introduction of the item that we are dealing with, and then if there is an applicant or applicant representative present they will have up to 10 minutes to discuss the item.

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After that, I will open the public hearing and members of the public will have up to five minutes each strongly encouraged to keep comments brief concise and building on but not repeating previous comments.

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Public can be joining us in person only as far as public testimony.

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After all of the people that want to speak during the public hearing have been heard,

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we will invite the applicant back up for a rebuttal to answer any questions that came up during

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the public hearing or to make any closing comments about the item. After that, I will invite

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my colleagues and the mayor to ask any clarifying questions of staff and or the applicant.

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So with that we will move to item G1 which is an appeal of the historic preservation committee's

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denial of certificate of appropriateness for 311 Broadway edition renovation and we have

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Irene Woodward to make this presentation.

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Good evening council president mayor members of council. I'm going to do the introduction for the public hearing. I just wanted to kind of this is an appeal of a certificate of appropriateness that was heard by the Heritage Preservation Commission. I will kind of go through the different criteria. These are all listed in the packet under the RCA so I'm just going to highlight a few of those. This is a quasi judicial. It kind of mirrors a zoning appeal. So all of those different items that we identified in the packet are kind of make up our findings of fact for this particular

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application. Just to note, this was denied by the Heritage Preservation Commission and they noted

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that the rehabilitation standards of 1, 2, 5, 6, 9, and 10 were not being met. I can repeat those

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at the end, but just wanted to note them up front as we go through these, and I'm just going to kind

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of highlight some of these. I know there's a lot of public that wants to also provide comments.

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Just to note that applications when we review for anything of this certificate of appropriateness,

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we reviewed against the rehabilitation standards, but also the city adopted design guidelines

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that take into account city priorities that were done by Council. So it is the combination of

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those two documents is how we review each of these different criteria.

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So to start,

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really what I wanted to highlight on this is that as we continue to look at this application,

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it will continue as a mix use, a majority of commercial space will remain, which really indicates

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and continues that this is referencing a commercial historic district as it was identified and

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designated.

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And the distinctive materials, especially those along Broadway, will remain and that's

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a key factor within this.

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Moving on to the next one, the historic features of the sides are going to continue to

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be preserved.

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In addition, the storefront at 309 will be rehabilitated.

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It had undergone several different iterations over the years and kind of closed in and

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part of this, it will be open back up and taken into account to look more like a store front,

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which was at one time that way, which is an appropriate part of the rehabilitation standards.

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The changes that have occurred within the district within the period of significance will be maintained, along with also noting that the rehabilitation of the facade of 39 and to the alley side of the buildings will utilize more contemporary design, which is consistent.

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None of the materials being removed calls that qualify as distinctive materials features

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or finishes, but I'm like that is behind those front facades, which are facing Broadway

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will remain intact and be preserved within this, and that there are the changes having

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occurred to already at 3.11 to 3.17 within the period of significance will be preserved,

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so those will be maintained as they are.

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The other thing to note is that no character defining features are being removed or replaced

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in this project.

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Within the character defining features within the historic study that was completed to

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designate this, we're all generally along the facade facing Broadway, where those

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character defining features that were identified during that.

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And we're adopted as part of that historic district study.

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And wanted to note on this, one of the main things that I think there's been some comments

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comments and feedback also from HPC was about the overall massing of the structure.

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When we look at it, we look at the presence of 318 comments building, mitigate the additional

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building mass.

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Noting that within the historic district, it's the collective of all of the buildings that

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were established and designated, so it's not one particular building, it's the overall district

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that was established, so as we're looking at the overall district, we're looking at the impact

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of that massing within that district, and with the location of 318, it looks like it kind

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lines with that, and so we'll not have an impact on the other buildings.

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In addition, it has been designed to both compatible and differentiated from the properties

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historic elements, which is the recommendation when we're looking at additions or re-abiltations,

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especially when we're looking at additions, is that it has a differentiated so that you're

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not mimicking what is on those front facing facings, that are part of those contributing

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buildings.

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And then the last item that I just want to quickly note it are properties are being

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person.

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Once again, I've kind of noted a couple of times that it's really looking at those properties

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being preserved along Broadway is being a key feature of this.

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And so with that, I will note and I'll just provide the recommendation.

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This was a staff recommendation that was submitted to HPC.

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Once again, the HPC voted 62 to deny the certificate of appropriateness and most of their

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for each one of them was really concerns about the addition with a detract from the district,

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the concerns about setting precedents and the massing design are not compatible with these buildings

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with a district and just wanted to note those and that is the end of the brief presentation

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and I'm happy to answer any questions at the completion of the public hearing. Thank you, Mrs. Miss Woodward.

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Next up, if the applicant is here, if they can step forward and introduce yourself and you have up to 10 minutes.

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How do I advance this slide, just the green button?

402
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:22,060
Okay, thank you.

403
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Good afternoon.

404
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:24,600
Good evening, Mayor.

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Council President Council members.

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My name is Bob Heiss.

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I'm working with how Henderson Grant McElitz and the GH Investment Group.

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regarding this three-level Broadway development.

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What this appeal is about is that HPC denied the request for appropriateness,

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and did so without any factual support, any substantive factual findings,

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and GH2 did not walk away.

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They met with the city.

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The city invited them to continue in this down this road,

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to find a project that would be compatible with what the city was trying to do in terms of

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developed a downtown district. And so after months and multiple meetings and many, many

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communications, a substantially modified proposal was developed and that proposal earned the support

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of the experts, the city development team.

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The properties we all know what the properties are,

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So I'm not going to go into detail on that.

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The city's done a good job of outlying that.

421
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Quick history.

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All I would point out is that, again, GAs 2 did not walk away.

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They were invited by the city to continue this progress, this project, and find a way

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that they could collaborate together with the development team and come up with solutions

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to some of the concerns that the initial project raised.

426
00:39:50,850 --> 00:39:56,190
And they did that through months and months and hours of communication and collaboration.

427
00:39:56,190 --> 00:39:59,230
and this is a snapshot of what the differences are.

428
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,420
And see the 309 Broadway, the facade is now being preserved as opposed to full demolition. The storefronts

429
00:40:05,420 --> 00:40:11,840
are returned to historic opening. Preserved whole portions of the buildings to be used as apartments.

430
00:40:12,340 --> 00:40:17,380
It went from 11 stories to 7 stories, which satisfies the mass inconsiderations. There are now

431
00:40:17,380 --> 00:40:23,540
setbacks that didn't exist before that satisfy the city development team and the standards and the guidelines.

432
00:40:23,540 --> 00:40:29,140
and no change in the designation of the buildings as contributing buildings was required.

433
00:40:29,940 --> 00:40:31,140
This is just to give you the visual.

434
00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:36,300
The city has it in theirs but you can see the substantial difference in the massing that

435
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:42,860
resulted in the significant changes to the proposal and to the project which clearly as

436
00:40:42,860 --> 00:40:47,760
the city has determined falls within the lines of the standards and the expectations.

437
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:57,020
The, I think it's important. I'm not an expert in historical preservation. I'm not an engineer.

438
00:40:57,740 --> 00:41:01,980
I'm not an expert in downtown district renovation and remodeling and expansion.

439
00:41:02,340 --> 00:41:09,280
I rely on experts. I suspect that nobody here in you or I don't mean this in a disrespectful way.

440
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:15,320
We're not experts in historical preservation or downtown development. I don't envy the position that you're in.

441
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:21,840
This is outside a lot of people's expertise and it's a hard position to be in to have to make a decision like this.

442
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:33,380
So what do we do? We rely on experts. The city has a team of experts that are devoted and committed to understanding the Secretary of Interior Standards in the context of a project like this.

443
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:39,800
They're committed to understanding the UDC in the context of a proposal and a project like this.

444
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:46,440
So what do we do? We rely on what the experts say and the experts have indicated that this project,

445
00:41:46,620 --> 00:41:52,660
this new proposal, substantially modified, comports with, complies with, and it hears to the

446
00:41:52,660 --> 00:41:58,520
Secretary of Interior Standards. And it hears to the UDC, the regulations and the codes that apply

447
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:09,720
to a project like this, just in brief, the HPC's decision. It was a one-page letter.

448
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:17,700
that denied on 1, 2, 5, 6, 9, and 10, the Secretary of Interior Standards, and the conclusion

449
00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:19,060
was simply not met.

450
00:42:20,380 --> 00:42:29,580
No factual support, no factual justification, no basis whatsoever other than not met.

451
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:35,840
To the extent that somebody from the HBC may have submitted some documents to the City Council

452
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:42,160
afterwards that weren't provided to us that were not part of the HPC proceeding, it's outside

453
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:48,100
the scope of the HPC proceeding. It's inappropriate to rely on anything that was provided

454
00:42:48,100 --> 00:42:52,220
to the council after that. And certainly if something was provided, we would have liked

455
00:42:52,220 --> 00:42:59,360
to have seen it so that we could address it. Not a single factual finding in a quasi-do

456
00:43:03,260 --> 00:43:05,700
and we would ask that the City Council

457
00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:06,940
take that into consideration.

458
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,120
We look at what's the investment case for this.

459
00:43:14,540 --> 00:43:15,140
The,

460
00:43:17,580 --> 00:43:18,640
this isn't theoretical.

461
00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:19,740
It's not hypothetical.

462
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:20,660
It's real.

463
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:22,940
The second floor of three-level broadway

464
00:43:22,940 --> 00:43:24,700
hasn't been rented in five years.

465
00:43:25,780 --> 00:43:29,700
This is despite over $900,000 being invested in the pain building.

466
00:43:30,780 --> 00:43:31,920
The second floor remains.

467
00:43:33,100 --> 00:43:39,000
Beijing. Right now ownership of subsidizing tenants, they may not know it, they may not

468
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,760
appreciate it, but at $15 a square foot as opposed to what the market is for that area

469
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:49,580
for between $25 and $35. It's not sustainable. It's not theoretical. It's reality.

470
00:43:49,980 --> 00:43:57,360
The mass simply doesn't work without this project. There's no realistic path to recouping

471
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:02,340
the investment in these buildings as they sit today. And that's what makes really an opportunity

472
00:44:02,340 --> 00:44:07,520
for the City Council to allow for real investment in these buildings to be possible.

473
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:09,580
What's the practical alternatives?

474
00:44:10,860 --> 00:44:13,680
Sell the buildings, who's going to buy these buildings after what they've been through

475
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,980
for the past three years in the current condition that they're in.

476
00:44:17,180 --> 00:44:19,640
Maintain under minimum, it's not sustainable.

477
00:44:20,020 --> 00:44:25,540
You can keep putting money in to maintain the building but the rents that are getting paid

478
00:44:25,540 --> 00:44:27,780
aren't sufficient to maintain that.

479
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:44,000
So downtown business property owner support this, and we should not have to choose between allowing a property owner to reinvest in his store of building and supporting the small businesses that have made downtown possible.

480
00:44:46,300 --> 00:44:47,420
Why this matters?

481
00:44:48,940 --> 00:44:58,080
Whether the commission's decision was supported by the findings in the HPC, which it clearly was not because there were no factual findings and what's at stake in the outcome.

482
00:44:58,080 --> 00:44:59,980
This is a 23 million dollar.

483
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:13,020
Aller investment that's being brought to downtown Rochester. The city development team itself recognizes what brings. More business, more residents, more revenue, more vitality for the whole downtown community. Not just this block.

484
00:45:14,700 --> 00:45:26,000
There's a message beyond this one project. If a developer does everything that they're asked and working with the city, goes to meetings, makes changes, makes revisions, complies with everything that the city wants.

485
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:31,400
And then is told by the HPC we reject your project because it affects old buildings.

486
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:37,320
It sends a message to development that development and downtown Rochester is not wanted.

487
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:42,220
We would think that this council has the opportunity to send an opposing message today.

488
00:45:43,100 --> 00:45:48,060
And that message is that if you work with the city, if you combine and collaborate with the city,

489
00:45:48,220 --> 00:45:53,160
and you provide what the city is looking for and compliance with the standards and the regulations,

490
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:58,600
your project should be approved, and for that reason, we're asking that the City Council

491
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:05,160
except the recommendation. The second recommendation now by the experts, the development

492
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:11,840
team, to overturn the HBC's denial, to award the certificate of appropriateness, and to allow

493
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:18,540
this project to go forward. I want to say thank you on behalf of GH2 Investments, Mr. Henderson,

494
00:46:18,540 --> 00:46:22,900
and Mr. Michaelettes, and we have anticipated some questions.

495
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,640
So in the slide deck, there are questions and answers.

496
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:27,900
I don't know, how much time do I have left?

497
00:46:28,140 --> 00:46:31,260
I mean, you have a minute and 50 for seconds left,

498
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,140
but you also will have five minutes

499
00:46:33,140 --> 00:46:34,720
after the public hearing date.

500
00:46:34,740 --> 00:46:35,620
All right, sir, questions.

501
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:36,200
All right.

502
00:46:36,460 --> 00:46:38,320
So let me just take what time I have left.

503
00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:41,080
There are no conditions that this approval

504
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,340
and this recommendation for approval or subject to.

505
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,920
Standards also all that are identified

506
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,600
are not supported by any factual findings or any factual support.

507
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:56,440
When you talk about the alley, we're very conscientious of the alley, how and grant have already

508
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:01,660
done things to enhance that alley by consolidating garbage collection for all the business owners

509
00:47:01,660 --> 00:47:07,320
in that area, by installing new lights, by installing benches, by installing planters, some

510
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:12,060
of which have been vandalized already with planst being stolen and rocks being pulled out of

511
00:47:12,060 --> 00:47:15,960
the planters, but it shows that they're willing to work and do more.

512
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:20,140
And this project, if they're given the opportunity to move it forward, can do so much more

513
00:47:20,140 --> 00:47:25,640
to preserve the culture of that alley, actually enhance the culture of that alley by doing

514
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,720
some things like this.

515
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,120
This just demonstrates the massing.

516
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,300
This has been done in other cities throughout the United States.

517
00:47:35,540 --> 00:47:41,040
You can see a lot of historic buildings have accepted the idea of regenerating with modernization

518
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:46,100
that bring revitalization to a downtown community and a downtown district.

519
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,500
So we're not asking the city of Rochester do something novel or something

520
00:47:49,500 --> 00:47:53,160
that hasn't been done. Again, this shows the massing,

521
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,440
this tower support into the historic buildings.

522
00:47:57,580 --> 00:48:00,360
Professional support, we relied on the former commissioner

523
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,680
of the Minneapolis Heritage Preservation Commission who supports our project

524
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,240
consistent with all the Secretary of Interior Standards

525
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:14,380
as the city team and the experts have identified and if for some reason it needed to be removed

526
00:48:14,380 --> 00:48:18,480
the historic buildings would be preserved in the original state and this just identifies

527
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:25,360
over five meetings and 2024, six meetings and 2025 and two meetings and 2026 and multiple

528
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:30,740
conversations. Thank you. Thank you. We will invite you back up after the public hearing.

529
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:35,260
At this time I will open the public hearing and I will go through the list of

530
00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:47,980
Speakers and a reminder, please remain quiet during the speakers and after the speaker is done, and we will start with Sean Kettlecamp.

531
00:48:53,390 --> 00:48:56,790
Hi there. I'm Sean Kettlecamp.

532
00:48:57,790 --> 00:48:58,090
The researcher.

533
00:48:58,110 --> 00:49:00,550
If you could hold a microphone, just a little closer.

534
00:49:01,450 --> 00:49:02,550
History Center of Olmstick.

535
00:49:02,670 --> 00:49:05,170
And the researcher at the History Center of Olmstick County.

536
00:49:06,770 --> 00:49:14,450
I just want to say that you all created the historic district and it can't be something that's a hop-on hop-off.

537
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:17,590
We changed our mind later, we want to do something different.

538
00:49:22,230 --> 00:49:23,390
It's all been set.

539
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:32,770
The historic district is in place, and when he says that he can't find anybody to buy those buildings,

540
00:49:32,770 --> 00:49:37,030
I think really what it comes down to is what are you going to rent it out for?

541
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:41,630
You know, if you're doing everything specifically for the University of Minnesota Rochester,

542
00:49:44,290 --> 00:49:47,290
that's, I don't know, that's not going to work.

543
00:49:48,650 --> 00:49:53,670
And I've said it before, the University of Minnesota Rochester should really be the University of Minnesota Mayo

544
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:58,550
because you can't take an English degree or a history degree there.

545
00:49:58,550 --> 00:49:59,970
It's only teaching...

546
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:08,800
They're only teaching classes for what they want to make workers for them, anyhow.

547
00:50:11,340 --> 00:50:16,840
My aunt, Nuckel, Jerry and Mary Ellen Kettle camp lived here for years. They moved to Denver

548
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:26,500
in the late 1960s. And my aunt, Mary Ellen's father, was the district attorney and mayor

549
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:34,460
of South Bend, Indiana attorney for this due to Baker family, and it was my aunt, Mary Ellen,

550
00:50:34,940 --> 00:50:40,460
who when she moved to Denver, I'm ran and was on the city council there, who counseled

551
00:50:40,460 --> 00:50:48,000
me, I'm going to the city council, if you had something to say, you should go, and don't

552
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:56,840
be afraid. And so I've tried to keep that in mind. But, you know, she was on the City Council

553
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,380
there, but she would come back. They would, my aunt and uncle, Jerry and Mary Ellen would

554
00:51:00,380 --> 00:51:07,220
come back every year. And I always remember in the late 1970s, my mother was talking to her

555
00:51:07,220 --> 00:51:16,640
about some issue here in town. And my mother told her that this, this and that thing was

556
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:26,580
happening and my aunt said to her things happen in Rochester, Minnesota that don't happen

557
00:51:26,580 --> 00:51:36,260
anywhere else. And I've always remembered that because it just kind of speaks to, you know,

558
00:51:36,500 --> 00:51:43,000
kind of unacceptable behavior. I mean, going to the for staff recommendations and going to

559
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:51,160
city developers and everything if they're trying to get you all to vote a certain way that's

560
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:59,660
unacceptable and telling the city council how to vote is something that I don't believe

561
00:51:59,660 --> 00:52:00,320
should happen.

562
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:09,020
But you know corruption is chic these days and I just don't want you all

563
00:52:09,020 --> 00:52:18,180
to be pushovers for changing your historic district by a building that's so towering that

564
00:52:18,180 --> 00:52:21,980
when you're driving down Broadway, you're not going to be able to see the Kailer Hotel

565
00:52:21,980 --> 00:52:28,620
or anything else beyond that, it's not so much really what's happening right there on Broadway

566
00:52:28,620 --> 00:52:32,340
in front of that building, it's like coming up there on a car, you're not going to be able

567
00:52:32,340 --> 00:52:41,440
see beyond that, you know, it's just towering over an historic building that, and a historic

568
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:48,260
district, that we all care very much about. And I remember being out at the history center,

569
00:52:49,900 --> 00:52:57,780
how to give tours that Mayo would, and have people come up and want to know where was the downtown

570
00:52:57,780 --> 00:53:08,020
Rochester, and you try to explain it to him, and it's very difficult because they all want

571
00:53:08,020 --> 00:53:15,040
to rent out to, like I said, the University of Minnesota Rochester. It could be hard to

572
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:21,040
sell that building, but depending upon who wants to buy it and what they want to use it for,

573
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,340
if they're not going to use it for the university,

574
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,960
they have all kinds of great possibilities.

575
00:53:29,340 --> 00:53:33,060
So I encourage you, please, to vote, no,

576
00:53:33,140 --> 00:53:36,800
we don't want any building on top of our historic buildings

577
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:40,320
and we don't want anything done to our historic district.

578
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:45,260
As little as it is, we're only asking for a millionth

579
00:53:45,260 --> 00:53:46,920
the building's face and olive Rochester

580
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:51,240
and that apartment thing that they want to build could be built anywhere else.

581
00:53:51,260 --> 00:53:52,540
Thank you so much.

582
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:53,120
Thank you.

583
00:53:53,180 --> 00:53:54,840
Next we have Chris Allen.

584
00:54:02,010 --> 00:54:02,590
Good evening.

585
00:54:02,890 --> 00:54:05,070
Thank you for having us here.

586
00:54:05,490 --> 00:54:06,550
My name is Chris Allen.

587
00:54:06,590 --> 00:54:08,710
I'm a 50-year resident of Rochester.

588
00:54:09,590 --> 00:54:13,010
I'm the daughter of Marge Allen, who founded Channel 1.

589
00:54:13,610 --> 00:54:15,470
And I am a professional artist.

590
00:54:16,930 --> 00:54:17,770
Grass roots.

591
00:54:19,530 --> 00:54:21,950
It's what started Channel 1.

592
00:54:21,950 --> 00:54:23,690
It's only bigger.

593
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:26,490
It continues to grow.

594
00:54:27,630 --> 00:54:30,190
Look at your audience here in attendance tonight.

595
00:54:30,890 --> 00:54:32,110
It is the people.

596
00:54:32,750 --> 00:54:34,890
It is a grassroots effort to say,

597
00:54:35,450 --> 00:54:37,770
No, we want our history.

598
00:54:39,110 --> 00:54:45,530
We, the people are here to protect and preserve our own history as permanent residents of Rochester, Minnesota.

599
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:51,190
It's a progressive state as a direct result of grassroots efforts.

600
00:54:51,190 --> 00:54:56,490
Minnesota is ranked fourth in the country to support and promote the arts.

601
00:54:56,970 --> 00:54:57,850
Yet Rochester?

602
00:54:59,370 --> 00:54:59,830
Rochester?

603
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:07,560
Artists rank less than 1 percent in our state. 1 percent. Think of the growth.

604
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:11,360
Our small art businesses

605
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:18,800
are being threatened by creating an unnecessary change today, proposing to add five floors of student

606
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:25,060
housing, and to our haven of historic buildings that have remained throughout the hardworking

607
00:55:25,060 --> 00:55:31,540
historians of our downtown neighborhood. Two stories says charm, seven stories says corporate

608
00:55:31,540 --> 00:55:39,000
greed, honestly. Changing our historic neighborhoods downtown would displace and once again,

609
00:55:39,300 --> 00:55:44,140
would hide the creative, hardworking artists, artists, musicians, performers, writers, and

610
00:55:44,140 --> 00:55:51,680
grandwriters of the most expensive place to live in Rochester in Minnesota right now. The vibe is

611
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:57,720
to the ripple effect building the building of the Civic Center had on the Rochester Arts Center.

612
00:55:58,020 --> 00:56:02,120
Have you been there? Do you know where it is? Do our visitors know where it is?

613
00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:04,160
How much more could it grow?

614
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:12,240
So please have the decency to support alternative businesses that are

615
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:18,840
arts focused and settled in a well-established downtown location for all of us. Thank you.

616
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:25,780
Thank you. Next we have Richard Gill, please. Everyone was so good that after the first speaker

617
00:56:25,780 --> 00:56:32,560
and if you do want to apply, go out to the lobby. Mr. Gill, go ahead.

618
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:39,960
Hello. My name is Richard Gill and I'm here to speak specifically about the importance of

619
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:45,040
Triton Records and the need for it to remain open uninterrupted, which being possible,

620
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:49,240
which would

621
00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:54,200
wrote in Rochester and graduated high school in 1998. So I was around during the money magazine

622
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:59,780
best city in America days and as an artistic teenager during that time, I can say that it was

623
00:56:59,780 --> 00:57:04,480
anything but that for us. We would hang out in public spaces like the Galleria or the Peace

624
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,980
Plaza and get her asked or ticketed by security guards and police officers just for existing in

625
00:57:08,980 --> 00:57:13,080
those spots. The same thing happened during the live music shows at the play more ballroom.

626
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:18,520
Grass by the owners even though we went to spend money there. It was not an ideal situation and

627
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:20,660
made us all extremely bitter and untrusting

628
00:57:20,660 --> 00:57:23,060
of the people and positions of power in the city.

629
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,460
In 2003, I left Rochester, and when I moved back a few years ago,

630
00:57:27,460 --> 00:57:28,720
I saw a much different city.

631
00:57:29,500 --> 00:57:30,980
There are multiple venues that host

632
00:57:30,980 --> 00:57:33,840
a original live music, and there was a vibrant arts

633
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:34,760
and music community.

634
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,900
On this particular stretch of Broadway that we're talking about,

635
00:57:38,020 --> 00:57:41,160
there's a coffee shop, an art store, and a record store,

636
00:57:41,460 --> 00:57:43,940
and all these places welcome the youth with open arms.

637
00:57:44,860 --> 00:57:46,820
The point I'm trying to make is that the impact

638
00:57:46,820 --> 00:57:50,300
Tritome has on the community goes beyond dollars and cents.

639
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:55,300
In a place like Rochester that when your young seems to only care about the male clinic

640
00:57:55,300 --> 00:57:57,500
and catering to the over 60 population,

641
00:57:58,300 --> 00:58:01,540
Tritome is a place for the youth to go for live music and community events.

642
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,480
Kids have taken prom and senior pictures at Tritome.

643
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:06,180
Bands have formed in that store.

644
00:58:06,540 --> 00:58:08,500
Friendships and relationships have started there.

645
00:58:09,100 --> 00:58:12,780
I met one of the very most important people in my life because of that storefront.

646
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:14,620
It's important to this community.

647
00:58:14,620 --> 00:58:17,480
It's more than just four walls and some crates of records.

648
00:58:18,020 --> 00:58:20,360
It's a cultural and community hub for this city.

649
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,000
I would hate for the next generation of young people

650
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,380
to miss out on that at the expense of more apartments.

651
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,740
For the next generation to grow up the way my friends and I did,

652
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,600
bitter and untrusting of the people and positions of power in the city.

653
00:58:33,180 --> 00:58:35,260
Feeling like their best interests are not being considered.

654
00:58:35,860 --> 00:58:38,380
They've already lost one place with the closing of thesis.

655
00:58:38,940 --> 00:58:40,760
Don't let them lose this place too.

656
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,460
Even for the amount of time it takes to renovate a building.

657
00:58:43,460 --> 00:58:47,140
Thank you, Mr. Gill. Next up, we have Charlie Miller.

658
00:58:52,020 --> 00:58:55,280
Good evening, Council President Shubring, Mayor Norton, and members of the Council.

659
00:58:55,700 --> 00:58:59,400
My name is Charlie. I'm here tonight to ask you to deny the appeal for item G1

660
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,760
and uphold the historic Preservation Commission's decision.

661
00:59:03,380 --> 00:59:06,140
I'd like to speak from a slightly different perspective than others here tonight.

662
00:59:06,220 --> 00:59:09,880
I'm relatively new to Rochester. I moved here with my two teenager sons

663
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,180
to receive ongoing medical care from the Mayo Clinic last summer.

664
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,280
When I arrived here we didn't know anyone or have any community.

665
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,400
I didn't have a network of people or a sense of where I belonged yet.

666
00:59:20,020 --> 00:59:22,700
The businesses in these historic buildings changed that for me.

667
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,740
Through these businesses, from attending ZNC and open mic nights at Kathy's team,

668
00:59:27,220 --> 00:59:29,660
and painting classes of art heads to attending concerts at Trino,

669
00:59:29,820 --> 00:59:32,860
I found my people, I found employment, I found music, art,

670
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:34,320
friendship, and a sense of belonging.

671
00:59:35,060 --> 00:59:38,280
The community that I built here over the past year is directly connected to these spaces.

672
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,960
And I think that's something that can be easy to overlook when we talk about historic preservation.

673
00:59:42,220 --> 00:59:45,780
We aren't just preserving old buildings for preserving the places where people build lives.

674
00:59:45,780 --> 00:59:51,560
These spaces give us pop businesses, artists, musicians, and community members somewhere to gather and create something together.

675
00:59:52,180 --> 00:59:56,700
They contribute to the character of Rochester in a way that a new development simply can't replicate overnight.

676
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:59,960
I'd also like to note that a huge part of the community spaces these businesses...

677
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:05,940
As this is provided is the safe, welcoming environment they create for my teenagers and for Rochester's youth as a whole.

678
01:00:06,260 --> 01:00:09,340
Almost weekly, I have the privilege of witnessing close to a hundred of our youth.

679
01:00:10,300 --> 01:00:15,720
And young people gather at Tridom to enjoy live music together. As a parent, I can't name nor imagine another space.

680
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:25,600
That feels as wholesome, inclusive, and safe for our youth on a Friday night. These spaces give young people a place to belong, connect with one another, and experience their communities in a way that's incredibly meaningful.

681
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:30,340
I moved here only a year ago and these businesses helped me make Rochester feel like a home.

682
01:00:30,820 --> 01:00:36,780
I hope we'll make decisions that allow future residents to have that same opportunity to arrive here not knowing anyone and find a community waiting for them.

683
01:00:37,420 --> 01:00:41,100
Please deny the appeal for items to you on and uphold historical preservation commission's decision.

684
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:41,880
Thank you for your time.

685
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:46,460
Thanks, Miss Miller. Next up we have Riggs Repp King.

686
01:00:54,380 --> 01:00:57,740
Good evening, Mayor and council members. My name is Riggs Repp King.

687
01:00:58,180 --> 01:01:01,200
I'm a Rochester small business owner resident and homeowner.

688
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:05,640
And I'd like you to, I'd like to ask you guys to reject this proposal.

689
01:01:06,460 --> 01:01:11,360
I want to be very clear, I am not opposed to housing, especially for students, and I am not

690
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:12,100
opposed to development.

691
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:16,700
I'm opposed to destroying Rochester's history when there are other places to build.

692
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,700
These South Broadway buildings date back to the late 19th century.

693
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:25,680
They are a part of Rochester's architectural and commercial history, and once they are gone,

694
01:01:25,900 --> 01:01:26,620
they are gone forever.

695
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:29,580
But they are also more than just old buildings.

696
01:01:29,580 --> 01:01:33,660
These spaces have become important parts of Rochester's art and creative community.

697
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:38,320
They provide places for artists and creative businesses to work, gather, and contribute to the

698
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:43,940
character of downtown. That community is part of what makes these buildings valuable today, not just

699
01:01:43,940 --> 01:01:49,340
what happened in the 100 years ago. The federal secretary of interior standard for historic properties

700
01:01:49,340 --> 01:01:56,000
found in 36 CFR part 68 emphasizes preserving historic materials and features, minimizing changes to

701
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:01,640
buildings and avoiding alterations that destroy the character and make history property significant.

702
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,660
These principles are consistent with Rochester's own heritage preservation policies,

703
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:11,940
which recognize the preservation of historically significant properties as being in the public

704
01:02:11,940 --> 01:02:18,140
interest. Understand that facades may stay similar, but these buildings are more than just that.

705
01:02:18,700 --> 01:02:23,120
So I have to ask, why are we willing to make an exception here? This is not the first time we've

706
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:27,880
this conversation. This is by my understanding the fourth time of proposal has come before the council

707
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:33,020
about these changes. At what point do we stop changing small pieces of the proposal

708
01:02:35,810 --> 01:02:37,270
and recognize

709
01:02:37,270 --> 01:02:41,870
that the fundamental problems remain the same? Changing the number of units, changing the design,

710
01:02:42,030 --> 01:02:46,250
and making other small adjustments doesn't change what is being asked of you tonight. To approve

711
01:02:46,250 --> 01:02:55,890
a development that comes at the expense of historic buildings, I don't need believe we need to make

712
01:02:55,890 --> 01:03:00,370
and buildings continue to go up and their vacant underlies utilized lots throughout and around

713
01:03:00,370 --> 01:03:05,730
downtown where new housing can be built without destroying 19th century buildings. We can have both.

714
01:03:05,850 --> 01:03:10,310
We can build housing for these students and we can preserve history. What we cannot do is demolish

715
01:03:10,310 --> 01:03:15,210
or fundamentally alter historical buildings and then decide years later that we wish we had protected them.

716
01:03:16,370 --> 01:03:20,030
If this council proves this proposal after four separate hearings and repeated revisions,

717
01:03:20,370 --> 01:03:24,890
what precedent does that establish for the next historical property? What does historic

718
01:03:24,890 --> 01:03:29,230
historic prevention actually mean if a developer can simply keep modifying a proposal

719
01:03:29,230 --> 01:03:34,710
until the preservation concerns are worn down. These buildings have survived well over a century.

720
01:03:35,550 --> 01:03:40,510
I am asking you not to be the council that decides they won't make it another century. Please

721
01:03:40,510 --> 01:03:44,670
reject this proposal and require development to happen in a way that allows Rochester to grow

722
01:03:44,670 --> 01:03:54,870
without erasing history, art and character that makes our downtown unique. Thank you. Thank you,

723
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:00,180
for your service.

724
01:04:00,580 --> 01:04:03,620
In Mayor Norton, I first knew you as PTA President.

725
01:04:03,780 --> 01:04:05,060
Thank you for serving children,

726
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,760
for serving this community, for representing our state,

727
01:04:09,260 --> 01:04:11,540
and at an national level, and international level,

728
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:13,500
your service has been phenomenal.

729
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:17,360
I came to Rochester, 1998, to teach at gauge.

730
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:19,360
I was a brand new teacher.

731
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,240
My first grade, I taught was sixth grade,

732
01:04:22,820 --> 01:04:24,720
which was kind of a nightmare for me.

733
01:04:25,300 --> 01:04:28,420
But we managed, and one of the sections

734
01:04:28,420 --> 01:04:32,140
that I taught was Minnesota and Rochester history.

735
01:04:32,660 --> 01:04:38,240
And we went to the History Center to learn about the tornado that wiped out most of Rochester.

736
01:04:38,900 --> 01:04:44,980
August 1st, 21st, about this time of year 1883, most of this town was wiped out.

737
01:04:45,380 --> 01:04:49,720
The historical buildings are gone. There's photographs and drawings of it.

738
01:04:49,740 --> 01:04:54,600
What remains in downtown Rochester are a few historical buildings.

739
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:59,980
for the sake of our children, and their understanding of the history of this town in this country.

740
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:13,300
I urge you to veto or to deny this permit and keep those buildings in place as they are for the sake of the children, for their sense of history, for the sense of the artist community that is there.

741
01:05:14,140 --> 01:05:26,320
I, in my retirement, have become an artist of woodworker, a cabmaker, a carver. I appreciate art heads and all the buildings in that block, but I also appreciate the historical nature of those buildings.

742
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:32,280
as a carpenter and woodworker, I appreciate the stone, red and brick. That's steel and glass,

743
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:38,640
but the brick of the stained glass on those tarfronts adds so much to what this town is already lost.

744
01:05:39,380 --> 01:05:44,480
So please don't let us second turn it all. I apologize to a few buildings we have left. Thank you.

745
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:50,060
Thank you, Mr. Yigweik. Next we have Santiago can too. Can too.

746
01:05:51,340 --> 01:05:51,960
Thank you.

747
01:06:04,380 --> 01:06:09,060
Good afternoon, the mayor and the council, the city council, quick apologies.

748
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:15,280
My throat is not exactly where I would like it to be, but this was an issue that was important to me and so here I am anyhow.

749
01:06:16,660 --> 01:06:17,840
So my name is Santiago.

750
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:22,960
I moved here to Rochester about a year ago or so with my wonderful partner Phoenix.

751
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:25,320
We came here looking for new work.

752
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,300
We came here looking for a new culture and a new life.

753
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,620
And so far we have very happily found it.

754
01:06:31,620 --> 01:06:38,260
And a big part of that was because of the institutions that we have in our historic district,

755
01:06:38,700 --> 01:06:45,400
the arts and the life and the youth and just every part of the energy that really

756
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:50,240
feels us up and allows us to live and allows us to feel like we have a home.

757
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:57,900
I, because I don't have as much of an experience living here and because I'm a relatively recent resident,

758
01:06:57,900 --> 01:07:05,780
I want to save some of the more technical aspects of this kind of conversation to more experienced residents to this small business owners who are impacted.

759
01:07:06,380 --> 01:07:12,660
What I really want to speak to is my role as a resident and your role as you are deciding on this.

760
01:07:13,020 --> 01:07:21,540
First, I want to speak to your role specifically, particularly in the kind of decision that I think you should be making and that really you are entrusted to be making.

761
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,300
I think that there are three big principles that really underpinned this type of discussion.

762
01:07:26,300 --> 01:07:35,480
I think the first is a recognition that this is not a decision on the actual certificate of appropriateness itself.

763
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:40,880
That has already been delegated, that has already been decided by the previous historic preservation committee.

764
01:07:41,300 --> 01:07:43,320
This is about an appeal to that.

765
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:47,500
And so I would ask you first and foremost to go towards the past precedent.

766
01:07:48,020 --> 01:07:55,860
There are going to be lots of arguments that are made about why it still does not satisfy the historical guidelines for the heritage.

767
01:07:55,860 --> 01:08:00,760
and for the heritage preservation. But even if you don't necessarily buy all of them and think,

768
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:05,060
well, maybe there's an argument to be made there. If there is any amount of doubt,

769
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:11,020
I implore you to go back to the precedent that has already been established by the initial committee

770
01:08:11,020 --> 01:08:17,560
when they said, no, this does not go by our guidelines. We will not allow this to stand. As someone

771
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:22,920
before me to already said, this has been delegated multiple times, multiple times the same decision

772
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:28,000
has been reached. I would implore you to reach the same. But second is I think it's important

773
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:32,860
to recognize that in terms of a lot of the economic developments that could be brought by

774
01:08:32,860 --> 01:08:37,640
this by a lot of the money and investments that the applicant of this speaking to, this is not

775
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:42,780
a unique issue to just this district. There are many opportunities to be building new housing,

776
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:47,820
to be getting new investments. This is not about whether we want our city to grow, whether we want

777
01:08:47,820 --> 01:08:53,040
more money into it. It's whether we want these specific apartments and these specific developments

778
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:58,560
in this specific area. And so I would ask you to look first and foremost to the impact

779
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:03,820
it will have on this area specifically. To the impact it will have on the small businesses that

780
01:09:03,820 --> 01:09:09,940
will be impacted by its construction that will lose a lot of the valuable people that are going

781
01:09:09,940 --> 01:09:16,320
towards it that are giving them this money money that are relying on it for community and for

782
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:23,040
And for the enrichment that these historical places bring them, I would implore you to look to that first and foremost.

783
01:09:23,700 --> 01:09:33,500
And finally, I would like you to look to your commitment and the commitment that you have not just to the people in this room, but to the 120,000 people that stand outside of it.

784
01:09:33,700 --> 01:09:43,960
The people who directly rely on the type of culture that these types of areas bring, who are finding themselves just like me, somebody who was able to find a new life,

785
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:49,280
who's able to find a sense of community, who's able to find a place where they wanted to be,

786
01:09:49,340 --> 01:09:53,920
where they wanted to grow, where they wanted to say, where they wanted to give back into the community

787
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:59,980
and to give more personal investment into these places. This doesn't come just because I so happened.

788
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:06,640
That was one of the first places that I went to and made a couple of friends and thought, wow, maybe I can find people like me.

789
01:10:06,940 --> 01:10:15,660
It's because as a music lover, I was able to go and frequent to the vinyls in Tredome and attend their life concerts and see just how much vitality there was.

790
01:10:15,860 --> 01:10:29,000
And see how much love other people had for the city and for the spaces that are found in this city. And I was able to think, man, this could actually be just a wonderful place to live, but you don't get that with simple housing developments.

791
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:35,700
You don't get that with just looking at financial amounts and looking at money amounts that are going in and out of people's pockets.

792
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:44,640
You look at that by hearing your constituents, by listening to the voices that have already spoken here now and that will continue to speak at well after I'm done

793
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:52,860
who are imploring you the same thing. Don't give up on this city. Don't give up on the things that give it life that make it a place that's worth living in

794
01:10:52,860 --> 01:10:59,020
and please because of that, I implore you, uphold the precedent, uphold the denial for the certificate

795
01:10:59,020 --> 01:11:05,520
of appropriateness. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Canto. Next, we have Gabriel Mesparen.

796
01:11:14,820 --> 01:11:20,120
Good evening, Council. My name is Gabriel McSparen. I am 23 years old and approximately one year

797
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:25,440
in two months ago. I moved from Su City, Iowa, to Rochester, after graduating with honors and

798
01:11:25,440 --> 01:11:30,340
just associates of applied sciences degree and engineering. Currently I work in broad cast

799
01:11:30,340 --> 01:11:34,340
engineering, but over the past year I have cultivated a range of experiences and fields

800
01:11:34,340 --> 01:11:40,020
related to mechanical engineering, IT administration and construction. I'm all by all means

801
01:11:40,020 --> 01:11:45,700
what is now considered a high skill worker if there is such a thing. I bring all of this up to

802
01:11:45,700 --> 01:11:49,980
illustrate one of the biggest problems that Iowa is currently facing economically at the moment

803
01:11:49,980 --> 01:11:55,380
and that is the continued phenomenon of young skilled workers moving elsewhere after graduating

804
01:11:55,380 --> 01:12:00,780
not only for better career opportunities, but also in search of more vibrant culture and a stronger

805
01:12:00,780 --> 01:12:05,000
sense of community within the cities that they live in. Iowa is currently being

806
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:09,960
blood dry by private contracting and luxury housing firms who decimate small businesses in order

807
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:14,940
to build luxury apartments and student housing that no one in the state can even afford.

808
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:20,940
And personally, I see what's happening between Iowa and Minnesota mirrored on a smaller scale

809
01:12:20,940 --> 01:12:22,880
between Rochester and the Twin Cities.

810
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:28,980
I myself and I know I'm not alone in this have already started to consider moving due to what

811
01:12:28,980 --> 01:12:34,880
I had to perceive to be this city's hostility and carelessness towards the vibrant culture

812
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:37,500
oriented small businesses that serve this community.

813
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:43,520
The most recent example of this hostility and carelessness being the completely unnecessarily

814
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:48,880
unnecessary and utterly avoidable closure of T.S. beer project on 2nd Street Southwest.

815
01:12:48,880 --> 01:13:00,740
The continued reconstruction and renovation of every single small business and building space and town in order to create student housing and luxury apartments is not only economically short-sighted.

816
01:13:00,860 --> 01:13:10,040
It continues to solidify Rochester as a simple tourist destination for those from out of state who only wish to visit the city to seek medical care at the Mayo Clinic.

817
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:17,920
Well, this practice may be may bring negligible profits for the companies leasing these properties in the short term.

818
01:13:18,100 --> 01:13:26,200
In the long term, it will only cause younger skilled workers such as myself to want to look elsewhere for community or aunts and culture and work opportunities.

819
01:13:27,180 --> 01:13:35,680
If this renovation is approved, it not only sets a dangerous precedent for the disregard of small businesses in Rochester and the communities that they build.

820
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:44,380
But it also sends a message to younger educated people that the communities and cultures that are important to them are not important and do not matter to this council.

821
01:13:47,140 --> 01:13:54,460
I'm just one example of someone who will look elsewhere for community and work opportunities if this practice of kicking out vibrant small businesses continues.

822
01:13:54,460 --> 01:14:13,860
Now, taking all of that into consideration, I humbly ask that this council deny the appeal for item G.1, and I'll uphold the decision of the historic preservation commission to deny this certificate of appropriate appropriateness for an addition to the project at 309-317 Broadway Avenue.

823
01:14:14,780 --> 01:14:24,440
Please allow these businesses to keep their respective building spaces so that they can continue to maintain, grow and nurture the communities and cultures that contribute to the action.

824
01:14:24,440 --> 01:14:32,300
economic growth that the city needs to maintain in order to keep the people who want to live here living here. Thank you. Thank you. Next we have Tyler.

825
01:14:37,810 --> 01:14:38,650
Hey everyone.

826
01:14:40,900 --> 01:14:47,420
This is a pleasure having the chance to be in front of you all and usually stuck in the back recording this so I appreciate your time tonight.

827
01:14:48,340 --> 01:14:53,840
I'm here as a stakeholder in a downtown business and I'll just put the last

828
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:55,960
what three years now dragging my family.

829
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:17,000
Finally, from Ohio to Tucson all over the country, everywhere across the Midwest, looking for unique businesses, shops, art supply stores, and curating ideas that we could bring back drops or something that we maybe didn't have here.

830
01:15:17,900 --> 01:15:27,540
And along the way, without even trying, we always ended up in these small towns, historic districts, time and time again.

831
01:15:27,540 --> 01:15:33,740
And that color and vibrancy was always so important and any time a day that we might have gotten there,

832
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:35,540
there was always something going on.

833
01:15:37,440 --> 01:15:41,920
People walking around, shops, bustling, et cetera, et cetera.

834
01:15:43,540 --> 01:15:47,580
And we definitely wanted to bring that back in some way here.

835
01:15:47,620 --> 01:15:49,520
And we saw that it worked everywhere else.

836
01:15:49,620 --> 01:15:56,000
If you've ever had a chance to be in downtown Hastings near the bridge or in park rapids,

837
01:15:56,700 --> 01:16:05,960
It's always an epicenter, it's a diamond, it's a gem, it's magnet, it attracts people who are either passing through town or on their way elsewhere.

838
01:16:06,740 --> 01:16:21,920
I brought this book with me, because my small sliver part of our business downtown was to curate a gift shop, something that was reminiscent of some of the old vintage junk you might find as a tourist in an old gift shop.

839
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:29,180
And I put together a museum of Minnesota history, Rochester, history's on one shelf.

840
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:33,960
We got a huge case of red all stuff to celebrate entrepreneurship on Broadway.

841
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:40,580
And we've had nearly a thousand people sign in from Paris, Florida, New York, California,

842
01:16:41,220 --> 01:16:41,900
Texas, everywhere.

843
01:16:42,540 --> 01:16:46,940
And what's amazing about this is that it's always a conversation starter.

844
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:53,940
And we get people towards the end of the line in the block late evening on a Saturday, a lot

845
01:16:53,940 --> 01:17:00,060
of things were closed, they've had their meal, and they're having the worst time of their

846
01:17:00,060 --> 01:17:03,320
life visiting mail and going through that experience.

847
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:07,700
And we're kind of at the block for retail, and they always stop in.

848
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:13,220
And we always say, we use the word linger, because they linger because they want a

849
01:17:13,220 --> 01:17:17,260
conversation that doesn't remind them of anything else going on in their lives at the moment.

850
01:17:18,100 --> 01:17:22,060
And there's nothing else that can really replace that experience.

851
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,820
And I know that businesses come and businesses go.

852
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:33,860
And I don't understand why we aren't using this moment in time to save this little gem that

853
01:17:33,860 --> 01:17:39,000
we have downtown's magnet that does attract people when they leave Mayo's ecosystem.

854
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:42,940
them, they always end up down there, just wandering around, even without a mission.

855
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:52,980
And I hope we can use this moment here to really continue a conversation about why subsidizing

856
01:17:52,980 --> 01:17:58,340
a perfect little section of what's left, why subsidizing something like that would be

857
01:17:58,340 --> 01:18:00,920
bad to keep it affordable for small businesses.

858
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:10,820
This new building is gray, and glass, and white, it's dead color, and people don't notice

859
01:18:10,820 --> 01:18:19,960
it, they don't see it in the same way, and I just hope that you'll vote in favor of

860
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:25,020
this appeal tonight, not based on maybe your friendships or any personal text you might

861
01:18:25,020 --> 01:18:34,280
received or the idea that we, this can't be supported and maintained and sustained in any

862
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:38,740
which way. So I appreciate your time tonight and thank you.

863
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:42,140
Okay, next. Next we have Lea B.

864
01:18:47,900 --> 01:18:55,160
We actually met at 317 South Broadway and our first kiss was in the cove where these buildings might

865
01:18:55,160 --> 01:19:01,560
built. Well, I hope you all are well. Good to see your faces again. I feel fortunate to be

866
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:08,360
a steward of a property on this block. My mom and I, she's here too. My mom and I were just

867
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:13,480
talking about the golden hour downtown and if you haven't experienced it, I highly recommend

868
01:19:14,220 --> 01:19:20,300
an hour or so before the sun begins to set, it cuts through the top of our buildings. It bounces

869
01:19:20,300 --> 01:19:26,260
off the street across the street and then that sunshine comes right into our windows in the

870
01:19:26,260 --> 01:19:33,740
west and for like 15 to 20 minutes the whole room is golden and it feels like magic and it's

871
01:19:33,740 --> 01:19:39,940
a good reminder of one of the many reasons that we're in that exact location. My understanding is that

872
01:19:39,940 --> 01:19:45,740
this proposal violates multiple preservation guidelines and I trust that you've all read over these

873
01:19:45,740 --> 01:19:55,460
standards as we all have. I trust the judgment of the HPC members, the experts, and I sincerely

874
01:19:55,460 --> 01:19:59,760
hope you do as well. They are an unbiased organization.

875
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:29,980
A pointed by the mayor and this council. The guidelines presented are not just downtown specific, as you know. These guidelines are set for all across our country. The decision that you make tonight can set a precedent for what rules will be broken all across our city. And as the third largest city in Minnesota, it can really set a precedent for our state. Tonight, you're hearing other voices, perspectives, and

876
01:20:29,980 --> 01:20:37,080
my request is that you all listen and decide with a sound mind. My ask is that you deny

877
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:44,680
this appeal for a modern tower and the financial status is not what you're voting on this evening

878
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:52,300
and landlord set the rent cost for their tenants. I like to think that the people who inhabited

879
01:20:52,300 --> 01:20:59,260
these buildings a hundred years ago also experience that golden sunshine and I hope that future

880
01:20:59,260 --> 01:21:05,160
done our Asians after I'm gone. Will as well. Thank you for listening to your communities.

881
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:10,480
Appreciate all of you. Thank you. Next we have Barry Scholnick.

882
01:21:18,740 --> 01:21:21,140
My name is Barry Scholnick. I know

883
01:21:21,140 --> 01:21:26,480
you will know me and this is probably one of the most difficult. Mr. Scholnick, if you can get closer to

884
01:21:26,480 --> 01:21:31,840
the microphone there, just there. We can bring it down if you want. There we go. Okay. Yeah.

885
01:21:32,180 --> 01:21:37,340
My name is Barry Scholnick. You will know me. This is one of the most difficult species I've had.

886
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:44,260
because I care so much about it and I was with the original group at Mark Builder back that

887
01:21:44,260 --> 01:21:51,380
helped design the the HPC and and and that the whole district and I really don't want to

888
01:21:51,380 --> 01:21:57,560
see it ruined. I was so concerned about it and what the what the staff the city staff was

889
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:06,180
proposing that I called ship-o and spoke to Michael Cooper was probably recognized as one of the most

890
01:22:06,180 --> 01:22:10,560
of standing authorities for preservation and for the standards.

891
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:13,620
And he looked at it and he said, this can't be.

892
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:18,200
This no way does this qualify as meeting the standards.

893
01:22:18,580 --> 01:22:19,260
It doesn't.

894
01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:21,880
And he said, and I can quote him on it.

895
01:22:21,900 --> 01:22:25,940
And I've asked other people to call him Ben Zastro, also spoke to him.

896
01:22:26,220 --> 01:22:29,880
And I think Ben already sent you some kind of an email about it.

897
01:22:30,060 --> 01:22:35,500
And it's very clear that the HPC is not violating the standards.

898
01:22:35,500 --> 01:22:42,060
Cooper is one of the national experts in it and he said that HPC was right on the money and

899
01:22:42,060 --> 01:22:49,180
believes in it totally so it's not like all the experts are against HPC and HPC are your legal

900
01:22:49,180 --> 01:22:55,560
experts in a sense they're the ones who the mayor and the other person pointed out the mayor

901
01:22:55,560 --> 01:23:01,100
and the city council approved as their legal representatives and the criteria are the

902
01:23:01,100 --> 01:23:07,020
the most important things. And by the way, one of the

903
01:23:07,020 --> 01:23:10,740
prior speakers made a mistake, you know, UMR is not behind

904
01:23:10,740 --> 01:23:13,880
House proposal. I check with the Chancellor's office there.

905
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:16,660
And they specifically said they have nothing to do with

906
01:23:16,660 --> 01:23:19,320
House proposal whatsoever. They didn't ask for it, and they're

907
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:22,540
not working with them on it. So they have nothing to do with it.

908
01:23:22,540 --> 01:23:25,000
There are other students who could be involved with, but it's not

909
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:30,420
UMR students, at least not anywhere now, maybe someday, but not

910
01:23:30,420 --> 01:23:35,120
now, so anyone who thinks that is wrong, so they shouldn't be criticized for it, but they

911
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:37,380
will still not behind it whatsoever.

912
01:23:38,660 --> 01:23:43,900
The other thing that you should know is that within the districts, there are things called

913
01:23:43,900 --> 01:23:46,440
non-contributing buildings and contributing buildings.

914
01:23:47,140 --> 01:23:52,340
The contributing buildings are the ones that are worthy of landmarking, and the buildings

915
01:23:52,340 --> 01:23:54,560
on the block are all contributing buildings.

916
01:23:55,200 --> 01:24:00,000
The building that how owns on the network is involved with on the next block, that's

917
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:00,940
non-contributing.

918
01:24:01,180 --> 01:24:06,820
So yes, it looks like that building, but as Shippo will tell you, when you put a non-contributing

919
01:24:06,820 --> 01:24:13,720
addition on top of a contributing building, you ruin the district because you don't want

920
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:22,660
to include non-participating non-contributing objects and large things on top of your landmarks.

921
01:24:22,660 --> 01:24:26,060
That's suicide in terms of keeping a landmark district.

922
01:24:26,060 --> 01:24:38,940
If there's issues about how much money, yes, we need to have some look at the economics of the district, and they should be a study session on that, and we should talk about that, and I fully agree with that.

923
01:24:39,260 --> 01:24:46,080
But as far as saying that these don't meet the standards, I mean the HPC felt that it met the standards.

924
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:50,720
and, again, ship of fields that meet the standards and other states of historical preservation

925
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:51,320
office.

926
01:24:51,700 --> 01:24:57,440
So they don't agree with Molly and, you know, and, and, and I mean, so there are differences

927
01:24:57,440 --> 01:24:59,920
of opinion there, but, but it's very clear.

928
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:28,700
That you only have to miss one standard. You don't have to have a majority. Even one standard, instead of nine, it's very clear that this is a bulky object, no much bigger and out of sync with the rest of the objects, and it wouldn't be a contributing a part of the district. So it's a non-contributing. You don't want to increase non-participating bulk. And a house that he wants is to set a precedent for the rest of Iraqians. But yeah, he's right.

929
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:35,140
drive the district by, you don't think that other developers are going to come along and try

930
01:25:35,140 --> 01:25:37,760
to build more on top of the district.

931
01:25:37,940 --> 01:25:38,720
Yeah, those are the stride.

932
01:25:38,900 --> 01:25:40,480
Is that what you want and go right ahead?

933
01:25:40,580 --> 01:25:48,720
I suggest what you do is have the meeting approve the HPC thing, and I don't change, don't

934
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:54,720
approve house proposal, but what you should do is try to sort of meet a amongst each other

935
01:25:54,720 --> 01:26:00,980
to try to come up with ways of economically improving the buildings downtown and how to get

936
01:26:00,980 --> 01:26:05,720
incentives, tax evadements and stuff like that. That's what you should be doing in my opinion.

937
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:13,700
Please, please don't don't deny the HPC decision and stick with that. Thank you, Mr. Colt.

938
01:26:13,700 --> 01:26:16,500
Next we have Vanna Passy.

939
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:26,700
My name is Vanna.

940
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:28,960
I've been here.

941
01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:30,200
Okay.

942
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:31,340
Thank you.

943
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:33,240
I was here the last.

944
01:26:33,420 --> 01:26:35,360
You can move it down a little bit.

945
01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:35,820
There we go.

946
01:26:35,900 --> 01:26:36,640
Just like that.

947
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:38,100
There we go.

948
01:26:38,440 --> 01:26:38,540
Perfect.

949
01:26:38,900 --> 01:26:39,260
All right.

950
01:26:39,740 --> 01:26:40,040
Okay.

951
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:40,840
My name is Vanna.

952
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:41,840
I've been here.

953
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:45,340
I think the last two meetings that we've talked about this.

954
01:26:45,580 --> 01:26:49,680
I spoke to you in May of 2025 and sorted my children.

955
01:26:50,660 --> 01:26:58,940
I work at Art Hezemporia, which currently occupies 319 and 321 and previously we were in 317.

956
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:01,960
I have a lot of love for 317.

957
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:04,060
I raised my children there.

958
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:07,460
My frontal lobe finished developing there, I think.

959
01:27:08,340 --> 01:27:11,700
And I met a lot of people in our community in there.

960
01:27:11,940 --> 01:27:15,660
It's apparent I have emotional ties to this space, the block.

961
01:27:16,500 --> 01:27:17,600
My latest experience.

962
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:23,620
I think it was Friday, night, August 7th, I pulled up into the front of all these buildings.

963
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:25,600
I think it was about 10 p.m.

964
01:27:25,660 --> 01:27:30,540
I went to visit Leon Tyler after their shift to my surprise.

965
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:35,500
The curb was littered with what looked like teenagers or young adults.

966
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:36,920
I can't say for sure.

967
01:27:37,480 --> 01:27:38,240
I was confused.

968
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:42,760
I found out it was because of tree dome and their events.

969
01:27:43,540 --> 01:27:50,980
As a mother of two basically, 13agers, it's comforting to see a space that is not alcohol-centered for these young people.

970
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:55,500
They're off their phones, sitting on the curb, having real-life relationships and experiences.

971
01:27:56,000 --> 01:28:00,000
Please don't threaten to take moments like this away from all of our kids.

972
01:28:00,740 --> 01:28:04,760
The modern world seems to view new as better, old, as weak.

973
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:06,300
I know that to be untrue.

974
01:28:06,300 --> 01:28:12,980
new is empty and old is full of stories, perspective is important when we talk about these historic buildings.

975
01:28:14,220 --> 01:28:19,220
I'm trying to see the perspective from seven stories high. Who does that serve?

976
01:28:19,820 --> 01:28:24,220
Students and only the students? What about my community that is already here?

977
01:28:24,480 --> 01:28:30,260
The people that have spoke to you that have called you, that have emailed you?

978
01:28:30,260 --> 01:28:33,660
It doesn't serve the community that already exists.

979
01:28:34,420 --> 01:28:37,420
We are the people who spend our time and money in these places.

980
01:28:37,660 --> 01:28:39,080
We are the people who work there.

981
01:28:39,420 --> 01:28:45,040
We are the people who interact with the locals and the non-locals and the existing students.

982
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:48,580
We know the bizarre quirks on that block.

983
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:54,080
We understand the value and the impact on the community and those that are visiting.

984
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:57,580
We understand it all more than you could possibly know.

985
01:28:57,820 --> 01:28:58,600
It's very intimate.

986
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:09,780
To insist on not protecting and preserving the historic district is so out of touch, a 7 story building on downtown Broadway is so out of touch.

987
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:14,960
I heard the term out of touch wealth just recently and it hasn't left my mind.

988
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:18,860
I ask you to trust in this community and the HPC.

989
01:29:18,900 --> 01:29:19,880
No means no.

990
01:29:20,240 --> 01:29:21,040
Thank you.

991
01:29:21,180 --> 01:29:21,900
Thank you.

992
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:24,320
Next we have Luna Snater.

993
01:29:32,860 --> 01:29:39,940
Good evening, my name is Luna and 14 years old, and I have spoken about this not once, not twice, but three times now.

994
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:45,960
And I'm here tonight with my family and friends, and I've grown up with the historic district.

995
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:54,720
People have spoken about the community that's been built, the story behind these buildings, and the charm these spaces bring to Rochester.

996
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:59,780
But nothing seems to stick. I know it's not easy for you to decide what's next for these spaces.

997
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:11,740
But please listen to your community. If we continue to gut Rochester of these meaningful places, Rochester will become bland and lifeless, and I truly believe no one here will tonight wants that for a city.

998
01:30:12,620 --> 01:30:29,980
It is worth taking care of what we already have rather than having to modernize and strip a joy for Rochester. Just imagine yourself traveling to an entirely new city. Ask yourself, is it the dull apartments that make you feel connected or is it the small businesses that make you feel a part of something bigger than yours?

999
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:35,580
self. I guess it depends on what you value in life. Thank you for listening. I hope to never

1000
01:30:35,580 --> 01:30:43,060
have to talk to you about this again. Thank you, Miss Nader. Next we have Phoenix Nader.

1001
01:30:53,020 --> 01:30:58,920
Hello again. I'm Phoenix. I'm 12 years old. I'm here to preserve the historic district. You

1002
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:04,760
probably remember me from the other two times I did this. I don't really know what to say. Building

1003
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:11,500
317 isn't just a structure bricks. This is more than half my childhood. I watched them open the building

1004
01:31:11,500 --> 01:31:17,480
317. I watched them close it, but I'm not going to see it tear down, especially not for over

1005
01:31:17,480 --> 01:31:24,180
price departments that are modernizing historic buildings. Thank you for listening. Thank you.

1006
01:31:25,460 --> 01:31:29,520
Next, we have Alida, Alida Custler.

1007
01:31:34,150 --> 01:31:36,390
Hello council. My name is Alida Custler,

1008
01:31:36,390 --> 01:31:41,270
And I'm here to share my thoughts as a private citizen, not on behalf of any of the board's

1009
01:31:41,890 --> 01:31:46,770
commissions or organizations that I am in association with. That said, I am involved in our

1010
01:31:46,770 --> 01:31:53,990
LGBT QIAS2 plus community, the art community, and I have a deep interest in historical preservation.

1011
01:31:55,190 --> 01:31:59,790
I hope all of you have had an opportunity to watch the HPC meeting from June where this proposal

1012
01:31:59,790 --> 01:32:05,770
was denied because it did not meet six of the ten criteria laid out of the secretary of interior

1013
01:32:05,770 --> 01:32:06,370
standards.

1014
01:32:08,610 --> 01:32:12,750
If the developers had actually listened to the discussion that was had,

1015
01:32:13,010 --> 01:32:17,210
they would have had a clear understanding of why the commission cited these six criteria.

1016
01:32:17,890 --> 01:32:23,190
Here's a summary of the HPC's findings. The removal of one third of the space from the back

1017
01:32:23,190 --> 01:32:29,090
of several buildings and the modernization of the alleyway violates standards one, two, five,

1018
01:32:29,150 --> 01:32:35,310
six, and ten, and the fact that it significantly alters the spaces of these buildings and the

1019
01:32:35,310 --> 01:32:40,570
buildings with the rest of the district and city. This includes but is not limited to the view

1020
01:32:40,570 --> 01:32:44,590
shed of the caler and plumber building from the corner of Broadway and 4th Avenue.

1021
01:32:45,630 --> 01:32:50,130
Standard 10 specifies that if the new edition were to be removed, the historic building would be returned

1022
01:32:50,130 --> 01:32:56,210
to its original state. The removal of one third of the back of several buildings makes that impossible.

1023
01:32:57,310 --> 01:33:02,510
The number of floors being added to this proposal violate standard six as it adds five additional

1024
01:33:02,510 --> 01:33:06,810
levels when the standard limit for historical building this size is two.

1025
01:33:07,690 --> 01:33:12,750
The proposed materials height and size violate standard nine as it makes no effort to be

1026
01:33:12,750 --> 01:33:14,830
compatible with the historical buildings.

1027
01:33:15,550 --> 01:33:20,070
The standards across the country say that it may not duplicate the original style but must

1028
01:33:20,070 --> 01:33:25,910
be compatible in style, materials, colors, and must not overshadow the original building.

1029
01:33:27,070 --> 01:33:29,870
These are national standards that we should abide by.

1030
01:33:29,870 --> 01:33:34,570
These are standards that are applied to the historic district, and when applied,

1031
01:33:35,030 --> 01:33:39,730
encompasses more than just the face of these buildings. The HPC weighed every part of this

1032
01:33:39,730 --> 01:33:45,070
proposal heavily. For the developers to state that they were denied without factual reasoning

1033
01:33:45,070 --> 01:33:51,890
is plainly incorrect. It's staff that failed to give reasoning for the HPC discussion,

1034
01:33:52,410 --> 01:33:58,770
and that's a staff issue, not an HPC issue. To overturn the HPC's expertise is a clear

1035
01:33:58,770 --> 01:34:03,930
service to every citizen in our city and a blatant disregard for the importance of historical

1036
01:34:03,930 --> 01:34:11,590
preservation. Additionally, in reviewing the DEI impact of this, the city failed to account,

1037
01:34:11,950 --> 01:34:17,730
specifically for the LGBTQ community, who would be hit hard by this proposal. Treat on what

1038
01:34:17,730 --> 01:34:23,490
have to move because their space would be turned into a lobby. They are the only mid-sized stage

1039
01:34:23,490 --> 01:34:30,050
for musicians in town. The backslide of threshold arts would be demolished, eliminating their gallery space.

1040
01:34:30,510 --> 01:34:35,990
Both of these businesses frequently highlight women and queer individuals. These businesses

1041
01:34:35,990 --> 01:34:42,410
and cafe steam are also all places where queer events are had and display queer art.

1042
01:34:42,690 --> 01:34:47,890
I am disappointed that this perspective was occlude excluded from the evaluation. I appreciate

1043
01:34:47,890 --> 01:34:52,770
your time and your consideration and I hope you uphold the HPC's decision to deny this proposal.

1044
01:34:52,770 --> 01:34:57,370
Thank you. Next we have Sarah Hutchinson, Hutchinson.

1045
01:35:04,050 --> 01:35:14,290
All right, oh gosh, hey guys, okay. I'm Sarah Hutchison. I live here for 18 years. I moved, I live in the cities now, but I'm here because this kind of sucks.

1046
01:35:15,490 --> 01:35:30,150
I want you guys to think about a time where you felt like you didn't really fit in to the world. Maybe you had a hobby or an interest that just wasn't something you felt like you could pursue, or you felt like you couldn't express yourself in the exact way that you wanted to.

1047
01:35:30,150 --> 01:35:35,730
I hope that if you've ever felt this way, you were at some point provided with, or you

1048
01:35:35,730 --> 01:35:41,890
eventually found a place or a person or a thing that allowed you to express that feeling.

1049
01:35:42,530 --> 01:35:47,030
And I hope that the experience of expressing your true self allowed you to feel more confident

1050
01:35:47,030 --> 01:35:48,590
in the person that you are.

1051
01:35:49,290 --> 01:35:54,330
As a teenager, I was lucky enough to be supported in this exact way, by people who run and

1052
01:35:54,330 --> 01:35:56,930
occupy the very businesses that this appeal threatens.

1053
01:35:56,930 --> 01:36:02,670
these places, Triedome, Kathy, Steam, Art, Heads, Emporium, are run by passionate, creative people

1054
01:36:02,670 --> 01:36:09,670
who have been providing spaces for people like me to explore my passions and my creativity

1055
01:36:09,670 --> 01:36:15,550
and express the thing that makes me different. When I was 14, right, Luna's age, I was given

1056
01:36:15,550 --> 01:36:21,070
the opportunity to perform at the inaugural Rock Chester Music Festival and event aimed at providing

1057
01:36:21,070 --> 01:36:26,750
a stage for young musicians and artists. I was eager and absolutely horrified, getting on a stage

1058
01:36:26,750 --> 01:36:32,390
that felt way too big for me, but that day, fear and all truly changed my life, and it opened

1059
01:36:32,390 --> 01:36:37,450
a door to a version of myself that was itching to get out. This opportunity to share my

1060
01:36:37,450 --> 01:36:41,650
passion with people who cared about me was invaluable, and the community members who supported

1061
01:36:41,650 --> 01:36:47,390
that festival are the same people that are so deeply invested in the artistic heart of Rochester.

1062
01:36:47,970 --> 01:36:52,950
That first festival took place at the Wicked Moose, like on the south side of town. In 2018,

1063
01:36:52,950 --> 01:36:57,570
that building was demolished and they put an apartment building there. On the corner

1064
01:36:57,570 --> 01:37:01,510
first Avenue and Forest Street just down the road from here, there used to be an

1065
01:37:01,510 --> 01:37:05,330
art gallery. When I was a teenager I played my first show with a real band in

1066
01:37:05,330 --> 01:37:09,590
the back of that building. It was New Year's Eve. All of my friends were there. We

1067
01:37:09,590 --> 01:37:13,610
laughed and we danced and we listened to real music performed by real people who

1068
01:37:13,610 --> 01:37:17,270
cared so deeply about the community that was being created. I think of that

1069
01:37:17,270 --> 01:37:22,110
night fondly and without it I wouldn't be the person that I am today. This gallery

1070
01:37:22,110 --> 01:37:28,770
closed, and the building that C4 occupied was eventually torn down to create. You guessed it in

1071
01:37:28,770 --> 01:37:33,310
apartment building. You must understand that creative and cultural institutions are what make

1072
01:37:33,310 --> 01:37:37,850
Rochester special, interesting, and a meaningful place for all of us. I've only been around

1073
01:37:37,850 --> 01:37:43,950
for 26 years, but I've seen so many music venues and community gathering spaces disappear from Rochester.

1074
01:37:45,630 --> 01:37:50,170
Because so many of you only care about making Rochester a big and shiny to people who don't live

1075
01:37:50,170 --> 01:37:52,850
here, but like maybe one day might live here.

1076
01:37:53,590 --> 01:37:57,450
You must understand that this is much bigger than any opportunity for profit.

1077
01:37:57,870 --> 01:38:01,350
Your actions, your choice to put small business owners and their vibrant, interesting

1078
01:38:01,350 --> 01:38:05,350
neighbors needs second, and apartment buildings, road construction, and corporate entities

1079
01:38:05,350 --> 01:38:09,310
need first, needs first, has made you all look really bad.

1080
01:38:10,150 --> 01:38:13,990
On the Destination Medical Center's website, there's an introductory video that provides insight

1081
01:38:13,990 --> 01:38:15,610
to the DMC's vision for Rochester.

1082
01:38:16,170 --> 01:38:17,710
This is a quote from that video.

1083
01:38:18,290 --> 01:38:26,830
Destination Medical Center in Rochester and the Mayo Clinic are working together to transform Rochester into a city that offers hope, health and healing to everybody who comes in.

1084
01:38:27,530 --> 01:38:34,310
This hope and health and hearing that you're healing that you are all aspiring to must not only come in the form of a new hospital building.

1085
01:38:34,950 --> 01:38:41,810
Hope comes from acknowledging and affirming that the work of existing communities is important and a vital part of this town's future.

1086
01:38:42,290 --> 01:38:44,690
Healing comes from giving people a place to gather.

1087
01:38:45,410 --> 01:38:50,210
Newcomers and young people in Rochester need a place to meet, a place to get to know one another,

1088
01:38:50,430 --> 01:38:53,590
they need creative outlets, and they need a place where they can feel a sense of community.

1089
01:38:54,390 --> 01:39:00,850
We all know that no matter what direction you go, your choice will have a real lasting impact on the way that Rochester will look and feel in the future.

1090
01:39:01,310 --> 01:39:09,610
If you want that impact to be that you approve the construction of a bunch of apartment buildings and parking lots and parking garages, then sure, so be it.

1091
01:39:10,010 --> 01:39:26,810
And if this is the case, I hope that when you sit and reflect on your actions many years into the future when there are no cultural, creative, or artistic institutions left because you literally tore them all down, you have fun in your house, all by yourself, no community to engage with, and I hope that you will be willing to take responsibility for it.

1092
01:39:27,250 --> 01:39:30,590
But I know that at your core you were all good and caring people.

1093
01:39:30,990 --> 01:39:33,850
I know that you want the best for Rochester, just like all of us.

1094
01:39:33,850 --> 01:39:42,630
And I have the potential to maintain and support the places that people meet where people laugh and cry and smile and share stories and become closer to one another.

1095
01:39:43,370 --> 01:39:49,110
I hope that you see that the people of Rochester and specifically young people are worthy.

1096
01:39:50,230 --> 01:39:53,810
Of places where they can share their passions and their interests.

1097
01:39:54,550 --> 01:39:55,930
And I hope that you see.

1098
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:03,480
And that they are deserving of a place where they can be themselves. Thank you.

1099
01:40:03,640 --> 01:40:07,400
Thank you. Next we have Joel Campos.

1100
01:40:15,460 --> 01:40:17,580
Mr. Norton, Kent City Council.

1101
01:40:20,680 --> 01:40:20,900
Hi.

1102
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:26,300
As a nine year goes in a Rochester. I find myself to love the community and

1103
01:40:26,300 --> 01:40:30,980
pacing it offers, whether it be getting good to do groceries,

1104
01:40:31,700 --> 01:40:35,100
address to meet friends, maybe at a local music show, like Trudeau,

1105
01:40:35,100 --> 01:40:42,300
this is your project, we're even getting coffee at Seem Cafe. I mentioned these because they

1106
01:40:42,300 --> 01:40:47,380
hold a place in my heart due to my own hometown, not upholding upholding to these standards.

1107
01:40:48,420 --> 01:40:53,140
I believe other community members have come to know or just seen around our urging that you

1108
01:40:53,140 --> 01:40:58,860
need to take away this place we call home. After many years many of us finally found that home

1109
01:40:58,860 --> 01:41:04,640
inside a record store that is ran by amazing people. As a musician is difficult to find places that will

1110
01:41:04,640 --> 01:41:09,740
set not just one, but many genres and forms of light to perform for others' life.

1111
01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:14,560
Truedom has been that place for many musicians, and they are greeted with love and

1112
01:41:14,560 --> 01:41:16,960
cheers every time they showcase their talents.

1113
01:41:17,820 --> 01:41:21,700
It sounded to me and many others that this is being considered to be taken away.

1114
01:41:22,260 --> 01:41:26,280
For many, this is all we have since everyone gets a privilege to be a part of the male

1115
01:41:26,280 --> 01:41:29,460
clinic staff or government members within the state of Minnesota.

1116
01:41:30,180 --> 01:41:34,560
As an educator as well, please think of the youth that would be affected by your decisions.

1117
01:41:35,120 --> 01:41:40,800
Not many places here in Rochester are accessible to many of the youth who want the chance to finally be a part of community.

1118
01:41:41,480 --> 01:41:47,700
Treatment offers that more compared to any other program provided by the City of Rochester.

1119
01:41:48,600 --> 01:41:54,700
Please consider preserving the arts and music life here in Rochester to give myself and other community members

1120
01:41:54,700 --> 01:41:59,940
the feeling of grabbing a vinyl record like it was the sixties. Thank you for your time. Thank you.

1121
01:42:00,620 --> 01:42:04,320
Next we have Zo Do Ben. Do Ben.

1122
01:42:10,970 --> 01:42:13,870
Hello. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. So good evening.

1123
01:42:14,570 --> 01:42:20,830
Mayor Norton and members of the council. I am Zoie Dubin, a researcher and a recent resident of Rochester.

1124
01:42:21,870 --> 01:42:26,370
When I moved here two years ago, the first thing I heard about Rochester was that I will leave.

1125
01:42:26,370 --> 01:42:33,650
I will work here two to three years and then I will realize that I want arts and culture and a space for dancing and music and I will leave.

1126
01:42:34,490 --> 01:42:40,450
I asked my father who grew up here and spent his youth here and then moved out as soon as he possibly could.

1127
01:42:41,270 --> 01:42:47,250
What he used to do as a child and a teenager in Rochester and his answer was a drive to the cities.

1128
01:42:47,870 --> 01:42:52,870
Since moving here though, I don't agree. I've actually found an amazing art community at Art Heads.

1129
01:42:52,870 --> 01:42:58,470
I founded the Monthly Zincene, an art club at Cafe Steam downtown, and I've been recently

1130
01:42:58,470 --> 01:43:03,230
able to throw Rochester's first Zincestival, which was spread across the historic downtown

1131
01:43:03,230 --> 01:43:08,070
including Tridome, which really lovely opened their doors for us to have this beautiful event

1132
01:43:08,070 --> 01:43:14,130
that brought together local artists. With the extensive construction that's been closing down

1133
01:43:14,130 --> 01:43:18,750
all of these local businesses and all of these art spaces, I respectfully ask if the council

1134
01:43:18,750 --> 01:43:23,490
follow the advice of the HPC and preserve historic downtown. Thank you.

1135
01:43:23,530 --> 01:43:26,610
Thank you. Next we have Eric Strangeland.

1136
01:43:35,670 --> 01:43:37,990
Well, thank you for having here. And don't worry,

1137
01:43:38,370 --> 01:43:44,450
everybody adds an art to my last name. Well, um, you know, I only learned about this, uh,

1138
01:43:44,550 --> 01:43:51,950
yeah, I didn't know. Oh, I did. Yeah, I did. That's okay. Thank you. Sorry. It's okay. It was a professional

1139
01:43:51,950 --> 01:43:57,470
conference where my name tag had really arrived. The person was like, I'm so sorry. But anyway,

1140
01:43:57,890 --> 01:44:03,950
but yeah, I learned about this what two days ago. I've been a resident here for seven years

1141
01:44:03,950 --> 01:44:08,870
and in that time, I keep on thinking myself, I should go to a city council meeting, but

1142
01:44:08,870 --> 01:44:12,550
yeah, I guess a family learned about something was like, yeah, I need to go.

1143
01:44:13,410 --> 01:44:17,110
Yeah, I started during the beginning of the presentation, the meeting here, you were shown,

1144
01:44:17,290 --> 01:44:21,570
oh, all the kids, like in summer school, doing all that art stuff. And, you know, you said,

1145
01:44:21,570 --> 01:44:28,510
appreciate the arts and I mean I believe most people here like know the importance of it and it's

1146
01:44:28,510 --> 01:44:33,670
like one of the things where you know every weekend actually the previous person speaking was talking

1147
01:44:33,670 --> 01:44:37,650
about like oh you know told going up the cities stuff like that and you know when I first moved

1148
01:44:37,650 --> 01:44:42,110
here I thought like oh you know Twin Cities are only an hour or a half drive away and I thought it was

1149
01:44:42,110 --> 01:44:46,970
going to be driving them up other all the time but because of the downtown here I it's like well

1150
01:44:46,970 --> 01:44:52,430
I do that. You know, there's plenty of stuff to do here, but, you know, I go downtown a bunch.

1151
01:44:53,610 --> 01:44:59,970
I'm, I go to tree dome. I see a bunch of shows there, and this thing is like, I feel like I'm the old guy in there.

1152
01:45:01,010 --> 01:45:29,170
Because there's like so many kids. There's a bunch of kids. That's where the kids go. One of the way to hear music. I go there. I do a bunch of painting. I paint a lot of people. If you ever go to Kathy's, I've a bunch of little paintings above the bear cooler. But you know, it's like that area, you know, there were people too, speaking to wanting to do some an initiative about, you know, looking into the culture in the art world. It's like that block, that section of buildings, that is where the culture is, that's where the art is.

1153
01:45:31,210 --> 01:45:37,110
And I know that, and I don't know who the people are, who are presenting for the

1154
01:45:37,110 --> 01:45:37,990
Secule.

1155
01:45:39,010 --> 01:45:41,250
You know, I'm sure they're very fine people.

1156
01:45:41,470 --> 01:45:42,830
They live productive life.

1157
01:45:43,190 --> 01:45:50,430
But you know, when they come here, and they talk about wanting to, you know, was it rescue

1158
01:45:50,430 --> 01:45:51,850
or reinvigorator?

1159
01:45:51,970 --> 01:45:53,710
What are their word rehabilitate?

1160
01:45:53,790 --> 01:45:54,110
That's right.

1161
01:45:54,230 --> 01:45:59,170
They want to rehabilitate 309, and they keep on calling it 309.

1162
01:45:59,170 --> 01:46:02,950
Well, through a nine, has business that has a name in it.

1163
01:46:03,610 --> 01:46:04,990
It's a tree dump, which I mean,

1164
01:46:05,110 --> 01:46:08,350
they show the slide or it was showing like,

1165
01:46:08,450 --> 01:46:10,350
oh, you know, the people have covered this, right?

1166
01:46:10,570 --> 01:46:12,210
There's almost like a wave of the hand.

1167
01:46:13,770 --> 01:46:15,790
And, you know, I know in their presentation too,

1168
01:46:15,890 --> 01:46:16,890
they were talking about like,

1169
01:46:17,090 --> 01:46:19,570
oh, this construction's gonna be done in a manner

1170
01:46:19,570 --> 01:46:21,050
that's not gonna be disruptive.

1171
01:46:21,670 --> 01:46:23,610
And it's like, well, just take our word for it.

1172
01:46:24,070 --> 01:46:26,830
I, and as many people have said before,

1173
01:46:26,830 --> 01:46:31,950
that this is kind of in the wake of thesis, which is another kind of smaller music venue

1174
01:46:31,950 --> 01:46:42,490
shutting down. I really don't think it would be good to be overturning the denial to letting

1175
01:46:42,490 --> 01:46:50,510
the appeal go through. And I believe in my heart of hearts, I think all of you value the arts

1176
01:46:50,510 --> 01:46:56,510
and culture, and I'm just, again, coming here, short notice, this is supposed to be the first

1177
01:46:56,510 --> 01:47:04,530
tape of my vacation, and I just came here because I really believe that all of you, all of you

1178
01:47:04,530 --> 01:47:09,210
have the best intentions of your heart, and I want to speak to that, and thank you for having

1179
01:47:09,670 --> 01:47:14,350
having us here. And, again, one of the things they said is all of the small business owners

1180
01:47:14,970 --> 01:47:19,130
support this, well, where are all the small business owners that are supporting this today?

1181
01:47:19,130 --> 01:47:24,130
I mean, I've heard multiple small business owners, but none of them are in favor of this.

1182
01:47:25,030 --> 01:47:26,390
Anyway, thank you.

1183
01:47:26,710 --> 01:47:27,990
Thank you, Mr. Stanglin.

1184
01:47:29,790 --> 01:47:32,270
Next we have Nick Duncanson.

1185
01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:41,120
Hello.

1186
01:47:41,900 --> 01:47:45,940
Plenty of people before me, and I'm sure after me I'm going to speak on this better than I am,

1187
01:47:46,160 --> 01:47:48,300
but I'm here because I thought this is very important.

1188
01:47:48,520 --> 01:47:51,260
This is my first city council meeting I've ever been to.

1189
01:47:52,500 --> 01:48:20,480
I was I found it really funny that there were some concert announcements included in the PowerPoint before this this meeting so I can see that everyone here knows how how important local music and culture is and I think that denying this this appeal is is the way to hold on to that music and that culture I understand the need for housing but this is not the way to go about it building apartments that are for students isn't a good idea if those students will have absolutely nothing to do when the culture of Broadway dies.

1190
01:48:21,320 --> 01:48:25,460
they'll go downstairs and they'll be nothing there for them to do. I'm sure

1191
01:48:26,700 --> 01:48:30,700
you know the people who are for this are going to say that these businesses are going to

1192
01:48:30,700 --> 01:48:34,860
survive through this and be fine but but I don't think that's going to be the case we've seen

1193
01:48:34,860 --> 01:48:41,440
that with thesis closing. Rochester is not a city in the rest belt that needs revitalizing its

1194
01:48:41,440 --> 01:48:48,360
vitality is already here. We don't need to add on to these historic buildings if the life blood

1195
01:48:48,360 --> 01:48:55,060
this city is already in them. I'm from St. Cloud. I've only lived here a year. Every time I tell

1196
01:48:55,060 --> 01:49:01,940
someone I'm from St. Cloud, they kind of go, oh, sorry. St. Cloud wishes they had our scene and I want

1197
01:49:01,940 --> 01:49:07,920
to keep ours. They had to build a millions of dollars ampitheter to build up a scene of music and

1198
01:49:07,920 --> 01:49:12,080
culture. We don't need to spend millions to build that. We already have a scene that we should be

1199
01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:17,160
fostering, not suffocating. Watching Thesis go has been disheartening and I don't want that to keep

1200
01:49:17,160 --> 01:49:18,560
happening to these great places.

1201
01:49:19,000 --> 01:49:23,100
If these businesses are forced to shut down, which we have seen happen, then I fear the culture,

1202
01:49:23,100 --> 01:49:25,440
I fear for the culture and identity of Rochester.

1203
01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:30,500
If the scene cafe becomes Starbucks, Typop becomes an Applebee's, and Tree Dome becomes

1204
01:49:30,500 --> 01:49:34,540
an insurance office, how excited will those living here be to go to Broadway?

1205
01:49:35,440 --> 01:49:37,120
The facades are not what is important.

1206
01:49:38,240 --> 01:49:41,160
I don't want to live in a town that looks like it has culture.

1207
01:49:41,360 --> 01:49:44,280
I want to live in a town that actually has the culture.

1208
01:49:45,100 --> 01:49:50,080
I'm at all of my new friends here since moving your last year in this block, essentially.

1209
01:49:50,920 --> 01:49:54,440
And I hope that many more friendships can be made here as well. Please deny this appeal.

1210
01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:59,920
Thank you. Next, next we have Ethan Slough Slough.

1211
01:50:03,660 --> 01:50:05,720
I'm sorry. I'm sorry

1212
01:50:08,890 --> 01:50:10,490
for that.

1213
01:50:12,750 --> 01:50:18,090
Over a year ago, I and many others came to speak at City Council as hellhenders

1214
01:50:18,090 --> 01:50:23,870
enshrined for the third time to convert historical buildings into student housing. Tens of

1215
01:50:23,870 --> 01:50:28,970
Rochester residents came and spoke long to the evening about how important it is for Rochester to

1216
01:50:28,970 --> 01:50:34,150
deserve these historical buildings and how destroying them not only deals major blows

1217
01:50:34,150 --> 01:50:38,690
to the art and music community here in Rochester by kicking their current tenants out,

1218
01:50:39,350 --> 01:50:44,770
but also destroys parts of Rochester's history. And over a year later, we are back again

1219
01:50:44,770 --> 01:50:51,030
as how Henderson tries to appeal the decision made by the city council. It concerns me that the

1220
01:50:51,030 --> 01:50:55,410
Department of Community Development is recommending that city council reversed the appeal.

1221
01:50:55,410 --> 01:51:04,430
There are direct violations of the standards of rehabilitation it says this project is adhering to, relevant sections such as Section 1.

1222
01:51:04,730 --> 01:51:14,230
A property will be used as it was historically or be given a new use that requires minimal change to its distinctive materials, features, spaces, et cetera.

1223
01:51:14,230 --> 01:51:25,610
Section 9, new additions, exterior alterations, or related new construction will not destroy historic materials, features, and spatial relationships that characterize the property.

1224
01:51:26,530 --> 01:51:41,390
And Section 10, new additions and adjacent or related new construction will be undertaken in such a manner that if removed in the future, the essential form and integrity of the historic property and its environment would be unimpaired.

1225
01:51:41,390 --> 01:51:50,350
This project requests that one building is completely destroyed in order to complete a lobby area for the student housing, leaving nothing but its facade.

1226
01:51:51,050 --> 01:51:59,430
Furthermore, it builds up against the rooftops of Kathy's and Tap House and destroys multiple historic buildings all for the sake of 35 apartments.

1227
01:52:00,130 --> 01:52:05,170
Not only are these drastic changes, but they are not changes that would be easily reversed.

1228
01:52:05,170 --> 01:52:10,970
Kevin Lund pointed out in 2023 during the second hearing about this that two of the building's

1229
01:52:10,970 --> 01:52:17,390
effective in this project were used as a community space following a tornado in 1883 with

1230
01:52:17,390 --> 01:52:24,570
Dr. W. W. Mayo and Sister Mary Alfred Prisent, meaning there are direct ties to Mayo's history.

1231
01:52:25,010 --> 01:52:30,030
We need to keep these buildings. The current residents of the buildings affected by this

1232
01:52:30,030 --> 01:52:34,590
project are thriving businesses that serve the younger members of this community.

1233
01:52:35,650 --> 01:52:41,130
With the recent announcement of these sphere projects closing, Treadome is one of the only

1234
01:52:41,130 --> 01:52:46,370
places for maintenance and Rochester that does live music regularly, and is hosted local

1235
01:52:46,370 --> 01:52:50,770
artists, musicians from out of state, and even some musicians from overseas.

1236
01:52:51,730 --> 01:52:56,290
Dressual arts own has allowed many Minnesota artists the opportunity for more people to

1237
01:52:56,290 --> 01:52:59,030
and purchase their art, and they normally would buy themselves.

1238
01:52:59,890 --> 01:53:04,890
Cafe Steam has become a major place for many people to hang out with friends and relats

1239
01:53:04,890 --> 01:53:09,270
and study, and a time where third spaces are being attached more and more nationwide as

1240
01:53:09,270 --> 01:53:10,470
shown here in this very meeting.

1241
01:53:11,770 --> 01:53:16,190
This building project greatly impacts the music and our communities who will ironically probably

1242
01:53:16,190 --> 01:53:18,350
be living in some of these proposed apartments.

1243
01:53:18,870 --> 01:53:23,310
It also sets dangerous precedent where any historic building can be altered or destroyed

1244
01:53:23,310 --> 01:53:24,570
for future projects.

1245
01:53:24,570 --> 01:53:42,890
This only benefits Hal Henderson who allegedly resorted the practices such as predatory rent increases when some of these business owners spoke out last year raising rent by up to a thousand dollars and resulting in some of them not one to come here tonight out of fear of further retaliation.

1246
01:53:43,570 --> 01:53:47,090
And while we're at it, how will this construction affect the 317?

1247
01:53:47,090 --> 01:53:58,870
A building currently housed by Soloflo, a soon to open wellness spa that, according to its blog on its website, is housed by Hal Henderson's son, Ryan Henderson.

1248
01:53:59,810 --> 01:54:04,810
Will that be altered at all, or will they have be conveniently untouched?

1249
01:54:05,570 --> 01:54:11,550
In 2023, during his second attempt at demolishing these buildings, he cited difficulties in the upkeep.

1250
01:54:11,550 --> 01:54:17,250
If a cost so much should do so, why did he spend money doing the upkeep on solar flow?

1251
01:54:17,750 --> 01:54:22,070
Clearly, there's plenty of money for upkeep if he's putting in the updates needed to accommodate

1252
01:54:22,070 --> 01:54:28,330
sauna's, cryotherapy, light therapy, et cetera for his son's business. Why not spread the wealth

1253
01:54:28,330 --> 01:54:34,770
instead of intentionally letting these buildings rot? City Council, you have denied this three times

1254
01:54:34,770 --> 01:54:40,170
and it's time to do it a fourth. What message will you send to your citizens tonight?

1255
01:54:40,170 --> 01:54:47,530
But you care about the arts and the history of Rochester or that you care about the arts and history of Rochester

1256
01:54:47,530 --> 01:54:53,490
only until something more commercially and economically valuable becomes available to replace it.

1257
01:54:54,590 --> 01:54:58,590
Whatever message you send I ask that everybody here remember in the future.

1258
01:54:59,170 --> 01:54:59,550
Thank you.

1259
01:54:59,710 --> 01:54:59,970
Thank you.

1260
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:02,820
Next we have E.L.I. French.

1261
01:55:15,220 --> 01:55:25,780
Hi, my name is E.L.I. French. I've lived in Rochester, my whole life. I actually grew up down the road from the Dorothy Day House.

1262
01:55:26,880 --> 01:55:39,520
I watched downtown grow, but beforehand there wasn't much to do here. I remember the most fun I had was going to the Apache Mall and trying to bug the security officers.

1263
01:55:39,520 --> 01:55:42,600
see how quickly we could get kicked out.

1264
01:55:45,960 --> 01:55:56,200
After we would just walk around downtown and kind of snake through the alleyways and try to avoid anyone that we didn't want see in us.

1265
01:55:56,560 --> 01:55:57,740
It's not like that anymore.

1266
01:55:58,340 --> 01:56:01,160
I get to go down there and I get to hold my head high.

1267
01:56:01,420 --> 01:56:03,160
I get to hold my chest out.

1268
01:56:03,440 --> 01:56:09,460
And I get to walk wherever I feel like I need to to feel love and support it.

1269
01:56:09,460 --> 01:56:16,370
Being a part of the career community here is I feel like my silence has enough on that

1270
01:56:18,250 --> 01:56:26,660
It's gotten better significantly, but it's still it still tears us apart regularly

1271
01:56:27,960 --> 01:56:31,840
I also currently live down the road from thesis. I see it every day

1272
01:56:31,840 --> 01:56:37,120
I drive past it every single day. I am trapped in my neighborhood. I have one way out

1273
01:56:37,120 --> 01:56:42,520
I can take a right and go the completely opposite direction towards fire in or I can take a left and

1274
01:56:42,520 --> 01:56:51,370
maybe make it downtown or to my job on time, watching it suffocate has been disheartening, heart

1275
01:56:51,370 --> 01:56:57,570
breaking, and it scares me, because for the first time I want to stay in Rochester. For the

1276
01:56:57,570 --> 01:57:02,710
first time I don't want to run away, and for the first time I want to fight for this place,

1277
01:57:02,750 --> 01:57:10,090
I want to fight for the community that I've been that I've seen built, and I hope that you guys

1278
01:57:10,090 --> 01:57:16,610
make the right decision to deny this and to protect the community that we have built and that we

1279
01:57:16,610 --> 01:57:24,330
have fought for because we do deserve it as well. Thank you. Thank you. Next we have Veronica Starfall.

1280
01:57:36,330 --> 01:57:43,590
We met. I think it was like what six months ago. Same thing over again. Why are we here again? Honestly.

1281
01:57:44,550 --> 01:57:45,230
Anyways,

1282
01:57:47,270 --> 01:57:51,170
my question for them, do they know how many vacancies we currently have?

1283
01:57:51,270 --> 01:57:54,350
What the rent prices are like for these vacant buildings?

1284
01:57:54,690 --> 01:58:00,170
There is a lot, literally right beside where they want to build that they could build

1285
01:58:00,170 --> 01:58:01,210
on instead.

1286
01:58:02,110 --> 01:58:10,810
Why are we trying to currently destroy perfectly good businesses that bring in culture, tourism,

1287
01:58:10,810 --> 01:58:18,830
everything like that. Why are we currently trying to destroy that? Rather than build up on it,

1288
01:58:19,530 --> 01:58:24,590
bring, if we, I'm very energetic right now.

1289
01:58:27,950 --> 01:58:30,090
The whole reason I decided to stay in Rochester

1290
01:58:30,090 --> 01:58:37,750
is because of this historical district. I found a place I could be myself to enjoy the tea that

1291
01:58:37,750 --> 01:58:45,710
get there, the music, the venues I've been to, the art that I see. It has given me a place

1292
01:58:45,710 --> 01:58:54,090
to stay, and if we continue to destroy our local businesses for the sake of the students or even

1293
01:58:54,090 --> 01:59:00,550
the doctors, are they going to want to say, because they won't have anything to do, because I'm

1294
01:59:00,550 --> 01:59:06,950
think about leaving myself, because there's nothing to do here, because it's being choked over

1295
01:59:06,950 --> 01:59:12,150
and over again. And it saddens me, because I love this city. I have been here three here,

1296
01:59:12,450 --> 01:59:19,950
three years, and I want to stay. But if there is nothing to do here, why would I?

1297
01:59:23,050 --> 01:59:23,690
We have,

1298
01:59:23,770 --> 01:59:30,270
I have met some people, I would consider my best friends at thesis, but I can no longer go there,

1299
01:59:30,270 --> 01:59:37,790
because it's been choked. I can't go and enjoy the music that I really enjoyed there. The last

1300
01:59:38,810 --> 01:59:50,910
punktoberfest, which is a yearly thing thesis held. It would have hours of music and I have only

1301
01:59:50,910 --> 01:59:56,090
gotten to go to one. But now I won't, I won't get to go to any more after that.

1302
01:59:59,100 --> 01:59:59,900
Another question is

1303
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:06,700
Where would the businesses go? Do we just abandon the local businesses for student housing?

1304
02:00:07,880 --> 02:00:13,220
Do we not help them subsidize them to go somewhere else if we're going to kick them out of

1305
02:00:13,220 --> 02:00:16,080
their basically rightful place to be?

1306
02:00:25,550 --> 02:00:29,190
Do you have a main question? Why are we here again? This

1307
02:00:29,190 --> 02:00:35,510
is the fourth time. Why are we even considering listening to a person who does not know how to

1308
02:00:35,510 --> 02:00:38,970
taking note for an answer, over and over again,

1309
02:00:39,190 --> 02:00:40,770
the fourth time at this point.

1310
02:00:41,190 --> 02:00:45,150
Why can't we, why can't, you just not accept no?

1311
02:00:46,870 --> 02:00:48,230
And I feel it's prime real estate.

1312
02:00:48,630 --> 02:00:50,390
You can make lots of money there.

1313
02:00:52,440 --> 02:00:56,540
Other than that, I do hope you stick to the decision

1314
02:00:56,540 --> 02:00:58,540
that has been made by the HPC.

1315
02:00:59,020 --> 02:01:02,440
And I hope y'all enjoy your local business this more.

1316
02:01:03,080 --> 02:01:08,920
Thank you. Next we have B.J. Gaines dead birds.

1317
02:01:18,540 --> 02:01:23,900
My folks, thank you for holding this today and for listening to your constituents,

1318
02:01:24,500 --> 02:01:25,200
into our emotions.

1319
02:01:26,320 --> 02:01:28,820
And I hope you felt them as I felt them.

1320
02:01:29,120 --> 02:01:34,060
Sitting in the back row, listening to my friends and friends of my friends who I've never seen,

1321
02:01:34,500 --> 02:01:38,220
but can tell that I've met them one time that has show it thesis,

1322
02:01:38,220 --> 02:01:43,460
or a tree dome, or maybe one of them taught me how to sell at art heads.

1323
02:01:44,000 --> 02:01:48,880
And hearing the emotion in our voices, as we stand here and shake and plead,

1324
02:01:49,700 --> 02:01:51,680
for our businesses to stay alive.

1325
02:01:52,720 --> 02:01:57,800
I heard about the closing of thesis two weeks ago,

1326
02:01:58,260 --> 02:02:03,450
and my coworker told me that, and I had to take a 30 minute break from work to mourn,

1327
02:02:04,600 --> 02:02:06,280
which might sound very dramatic.

1328
02:02:06,280 --> 02:02:13,780
I can't imagine what it would do to all of our youth today to lose multiple of these businesses at once.

1329
02:02:14,320 --> 02:02:22,960
These places where we get to go to enjoy art and culture and get to know more people and love more people and find new friendships.

1330
02:02:23,640 --> 02:02:26,840
It's been a truly wonderful place to be.

1331
02:02:28,140 --> 02:02:33,260
I feel that we have two emotions in this room and one of them is love for this city,

1332
02:02:33,260 --> 02:02:36,620
for Rochester, for wanting to make it a better place,

1333
02:02:36,720 --> 02:02:39,200
for wanting to keep the things that make it unique

1334
02:02:39,200 --> 02:02:42,520
and special and make it reminiscent of the city

1335
02:02:42,520 --> 02:02:44,800
that parents grew up in, grandparents grew up

1336
02:02:44,800 --> 02:02:46,700
and your children will grow up in.

1337
02:02:47,860 --> 02:02:49,840
And then I feel there is one of contempt

1338
02:02:50,580 --> 02:02:53,500
from those people in the back over there

1339
02:02:53,500 --> 02:02:56,620
who could not bother to be here for the pledge of allegiance

1340
02:02:56,620 --> 02:02:59,160
who could not bother to be here for the entirety

1341
02:02:59,160 --> 02:03:01,740
of our speeches, who could not bother

1342
02:03:01,740 --> 02:03:13,300
To even listen to us with the shred of emotion or kindness who will smile and contempt at you as you turn to look at them whenever something damning is said

1343
02:03:13,300 --> 02:03:18,580
They do not care for us. They do not care for you. They do not care for your decisions

1344
02:03:18,580 --> 02:03:23,220
They do not care for the people you appointed causing calling them quasi governmental

1345
02:03:23,740 --> 02:03:27,280
They are real people that you appointed. They made a decision

1346
02:03:27,760 --> 02:03:35,580
These people cannot accept no for an answer, and I feel it is because they've had too much money to have had no for an answer too many times in their lives.

1347
02:03:37,440 --> 02:03:43,400
We all know what it's like to have no for an answer, and that's why we're here today, because we care about this,

1348
02:03:43,620 --> 02:03:52,820
and we really, really want you to make the decision that prioritizes the children, the teenagers that will bump up into you as they're enjoying the music completely.

1349
02:03:52,820 --> 02:04:00,340
I'll go home for you just living lives when your seniors will come and teach new people how

1350
02:04:00,340 --> 02:04:06,700
to men they're clothing in art heads when you get to have a nice coffee and meet new people

1351
02:04:06,700 --> 02:04:10,800
from out of state who are visiting the Mayo Clinic who just want to have a conversation with a

1352
02:04:10,800 --> 02:04:17,800
real person. People who are studying students in the cafe they'll certainly be there. I met some

1353
02:04:17,800 --> 02:04:24,220
them today. It's so important to have these businesses. It's so important to have local businesses

1354
02:04:24,220 --> 02:04:29,300
and places where fathers can take their daughters to listen to music together and places

1355
02:04:29,300 --> 02:04:33,840
where people can make these memories. These are all real things that I've experienced. I've

1356
02:04:33,840 --> 02:04:39,780
only lived here for a year and I care so much about it. I really beg you to uphold the decision

1357
02:04:39,780 --> 02:04:44,900
that the historical preservation committee has made. And to please listen to those experts that

1358
02:04:44,900 --> 02:04:50,000
everyone around me, everyone who is spoken here today has brought up.

1359
02:04:50,300 --> 02:04:51,780
They know what they're talking about.

1360
02:04:52,000 --> 02:04:53,800
They care, like you care.

1361
02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:55,440
That's why you work here.

1362
02:04:57,980 --> 02:04:58,680
Thank you.

1363
02:04:59,160 --> 02:04:59,660
Thank you.

1364
02:05:00,110 --> 02:05:02,670
Next, we have Connor Johnson.

1365
02:05:13,720 --> 02:05:25,200
Hello Mayor Norton and members of the City Council. I'm here to speak with you on a personal level asking you to reject the G1.1 appeal and project the small downtown businesses.

1366
02:05:25,200 --> 02:05:33,580
I am a student at Gustavocetalphus College, I am a chemistry major, and I wish I live in

1367
02:05:33,580 --> 02:05:41,440
Manorville, which is a great historical town with an amazing community, and that community

1368
02:05:41,440 --> 02:05:55,180
is highlighted by the new Tuesdays in the park music concert series, which I just want to

1369
02:05:55,180 --> 02:06:01,780
I'm not feeling very inclined to because I am seeing how these small businesses are being treated.

1370
02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:08,480
I started going to treat them a couple of years ago and I met some of my closest friends there.

1371
02:06:08,500 --> 02:06:10,200
I go there with my closest friends.

1372
02:06:10,560 --> 02:06:16,320
I've met so many amazing people there and it's going to curse down crazy to say,

1373
02:06:16,420 --> 02:06:22,520
I've heard people that I know, even say that some of the best nights of their lives have been at a tree dome show.

1374
02:06:22,520 --> 02:06:42,520
I see students over at Café Steam from UMR and I just think I believe that the soul of a city is in its small businesses and it's arts and I'm also a musician, so it hits hard when I see the music scene and the arts scene being hit by

1375
02:06:46,600 --> 02:06:57,000
in by profits, basically. I love mail. I think it is a great hospital, obviously. But

1376
02:06:57,000 --> 02:07:01,340
the heart of the city, the heart of any city, isn't its arts, it's small businesses.

1377
02:07:02,100 --> 02:07:06,960
When I go to college and I tell people that I'm from around Rochester, they say, oh yeah,

1378
02:07:07,160 --> 02:07:11,360
that's the place with mail in it. And that's great that we're known for such a great thing.

1379
02:07:11,360 --> 02:07:18,640
However, I always tell them about tree dome and I tell them about cafe esteem and I talk about my experiences there

1380
02:07:19,340 --> 02:07:23,740
And I tell them hey, you should come around and come to a show sometime. That would be awesome

1381
02:07:23,740 --> 02:07:30,440
because I just I love it so much and I love Rochester's the city. I want it to be

1382
02:07:30,440 --> 02:07:38,040
when I go and tell people about Rochester at my college. I want to be able to be proud of Rochester and I want to be able to tell them

1383
02:07:39,800 --> 02:07:44,300
that I don't want Rochester to be known as just the Mayo City.

1384
02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:48,900
I want it to be known as a place that supports small businesses, supports the arts.

1385
02:07:49,240 --> 02:07:53,640
And I don't want us to be known for a place that is aggressive towards the arts and

1386
02:07:53,640 --> 02:07:54,780
pushes it out for money.

1387
02:07:55,740 --> 02:08:03,120
One final thing I want to add is that I do have friends at UMR and UMR is a great school.

1388
02:08:03,260 --> 02:08:06,940
They talk about great the school is but I've also heard complaints that there's not much to do.

1389
02:08:06,940 --> 02:08:14,540
And we have to realize that UMR students are also part of our community and community members deserve

1390
02:08:14,540 --> 02:08:22,200
to have places where they can gather, they can make connections, treat them as also a great place for people who are under 21.

1391
02:08:23,840 --> 02:08:36,640
And I think that we just deserve as a community to have these small town businesses and I think that these apartment developments could be we could find an alternative solution because housing is important.

1392
02:08:36,640 --> 02:08:42,000
But I think community is much more important for a city. Thank you. Thank you.

1393
02:08:42,340 --> 02:08:46,420
Next we have gauge send and send in.

1394
02:08:54,040 --> 02:09:00,940
Hello, I am gauge send and I am asking you please to not go through with this appeal.

1395
02:09:02,100 --> 02:09:09,140
I have attended treatment for many years, just like Connor has and many other people have here too.

1396
02:09:09,140 --> 02:09:15,140
And I have seen amazing things, some of the best conversations.

1397
02:09:15,640 --> 02:09:17,260
It's a cultural center.

1398
02:09:17,440 --> 02:09:21,960
It's a place where art is freely shared and expressed.

1399
02:09:23,180 --> 02:09:27,480
And I can't imagine Rochester without it.

1400
02:09:28,260 --> 02:09:30,520
Because for many years growing up around here,

1401
02:09:30,880 --> 02:09:33,000
I didn't even know what to do in Rochester.

1402
02:09:34,720 --> 02:09:36,960
There's, I don't know, go to Walmart and walk around,

1403
02:09:36,960 --> 02:09:42,020
not by anything leave. That was one thing and then I found true dome and I found a place where

1404
02:09:42,840 --> 02:09:49,780
I felt important. I felt the importance of the city more than just mayo and the money.

1405
02:09:52,540 --> 02:09:59,960
I've seen many bands formed. My sister is in a band who formed through

1406
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:07,260
Through treedome and gained a platform because of it. And I can't imagine what she'd be doing without treedome.

1407
02:10:10,740 --> 02:10:17,980
I've been to many other places also with the music scene. I go up to many levels all the time to experience it.

1408
02:10:18,060 --> 02:10:29,780
But it is nowhere near as special as what we have in Rochester. I can go to treedome and I can recognize everyone there. I can talk to them about anything.

1409
02:10:29,780 --> 02:10:34,360
where other places that's not quite the same.

1410
02:10:36,020 --> 02:10:37,680
And I feel like we need to protect this.

1411
02:10:37,720 --> 02:10:40,160
We need to protect the people who have found a community

1412
02:10:40,730 --> 02:10:45,300
and safety within Tridome and Art Heismporium and Cafes team.

1413
02:10:45,720 --> 02:10:48,040
I really implore you.

1414
02:10:48,540 --> 02:10:50,480
Please do not go through with this appeal.

1415
02:10:51,180 --> 02:10:51,720
Thank you.

1416
02:10:51,900 --> 02:10:52,640
Thank you.

1417
02:10:52,880 --> 02:10:54,320
Next we have Brian Dean.

1418
02:11:00,320 --> 02:11:02,820
Good evening, Mayor and City Council members.

1419
02:11:02,820 --> 02:11:10,000
I'm Brian. I live in Ward 6. It's great that Rochester is a growing city and improving infrastructure

1420
02:11:10,000 --> 02:11:15,520
and building new housing is doubtless and necessary part of that growth. Every time a new

1421
02:11:15,520 --> 02:11:22,000
crane goes up in the city, it should not leave a wake of destruction. Thesis beer plans on closing

1422
02:11:22,000 --> 02:11:27,480
its doors by the end of the year, citing a 50% drop in business since the second street construction

1423
02:11:27,480 --> 02:11:35,180
begin. Red cow and other second street businesses have also reported significant losses and

1424
02:11:35,180 --> 02:11:42,200
shop owners along the corridor. Point two lost parking and blocked sidewalks as customers simply

1425
02:11:42,740 --> 02:11:49,920
can't visit the area. We're watching the same story play out twice. Construction has already cost us

1426
02:11:49,920 --> 02:11:57,360
now a redevelopment decision could cost us 300 block of Broadway as well. These are

1427
02:11:57,360 --> 02:12:02,540
businesses that actually make downtown worth visiting. When I go downtown it's to

1428
02:12:02,540 --> 02:12:10,500
buy a record at Tridom, grab coffee at Café Steam, find a book at Diatom, purchase or

1429
02:12:10,500 --> 02:12:17,020
view some art at Thresholds, or make some art at Art Heds. downtown Rochester is

1430
02:12:17,020 --> 02:12:23,440
starting to feel like it goes down and this vote decides whether we lose one more block of it.

1431
02:12:23,760 --> 02:12:28,860
I'm asking the City Council to deny the appeal and uphold the Heritage Preservation Commission's decision.

1432
02:12:29,680 --> 02:12:34,580
Rochester doesn't have to choose between growth of downtown, of a downtown worth visiting,

1433
02:12:34,900 --> 02:12:41,400
but tonight's vote is exactly that kind of choice, and I urge you to choose the latter. Thank you.

1434
02:12:41,400 --> 02:12:44,940
Thank you. Next, we have Jean Procat.

1435
02:12:48,010 --> 02:12:52,410
Good evening. Thank you for listening to all of us. It's really important and I'm grateful.

1436
02:12:53,470 --> 02:13:00,990
I'm Jean Procat. I am Rochester's poet laureate. I was appointed by the city in 2024 by many of you on this panel.

1437
02:13:01,650 --> 02:13:08,270
As a representative of our arts community, I find it vital that I offer my insight to the appeal.

1438
02:13:09,870 --> 02:13:15,210
Let's see, so I'm here talking as the poet laureate but also as a public school teacher.

1439
02:13:16,190 --> 02:13:24,110
The argument that the facades will be preserved and that most street-level businesses will remain after construction is in bad faith.

1440
02:13:24,730 --> 02:13:30,510
The word preserved means many things. Here preserved means buildings and social architecture.

1441
02:13:30,510 --> 02:13:37,790
The word investment also works too fold and I encourage investment and people over profit.

1442
02:13:38,670 --> 02:13:46,630
In August 2024, I was in Washington, DC, representing Rochester among 20 poets laureate from the United States.

1443
02:13:47,190 --> 02:13:53,530
Introducing Rochester was an interesting task to those poets laureate who only know us as home of Mayo Clinic.

1444
02:13:53,530 --> 02:14:05,830
When I spoke about our arts scene, I was discussing the exact businesses on Broadway that would be impacted if not closed because of this appeal to the decision.

1445
02:14:06,810 --> 02:14:10,410
These businesses keep people in our city as you've heard tonight.

1446
02:14:10,950 --> 02:14:15,670
They're where we gather to feel safe. They where are where we can express individuality.

1447
02:14:16,230 --> 02:14:22,850
They are open to our minority populations when they otherwise have experienced the pressure directly in Rochester.

1448
02:14:22,850 --> 02:14:28,830
they served our immigrant community during Operation Metro Surge, and they have literally

1449
02:14:28,830 --> 02:14:34,950
literally saved lives. Sacrificing these businesses would be losing what myself and

1450
02:14:34,950 --> 02:14:40,110
our poets and musicians and artists and many of my students fight to prove. Arts are what

1451
02:14:40,110 --> 02:14:46,210
pull people together in times of celebration and vulnerability. Even temporarily losing this

1452
02:14:46,210 --> 02:14:51,890
camaraderie does not make our city, not only make our city less interesting, it makes us

1453
02:14:51,890 --> 02:14:57,710
safe. It makes us lonely. It's a stay home. It tells us that we don't matter.

1454
02:14:58,810 --> 02:14:59,970
Disappeal operates under...

1455
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:05,620
Order the guys that upward development will make Rochester's downtown more robust. I reject

1456
02:15:05,620 --> 02:15:11,180
this premise, especially from a developer who knows that business proximity and shared patrons

1457
02:15:11,180 --> 02:15:16,980
are necessary for success. I never visit steam without walking through diatom, art heads, threshold,

1458
02:15:17,260 --> 02:15:21,960
and tree dome. Even a temporary closure of Broadway will suck the breath from them.

1459
02:15:22,260 --> 02:15:28,760
Already downtowns, orange signs, cringeyns, and broken concrete are preventing any activity other

1460
02:15:28,760 --> 02:15:34,100
business in that space. As a poet, I will not point off that well point out the obvious that

1461
02:15:34,100 --> 02:15:40,300
that's working metaphorically too. Stepping into my other role, I would like to speak to you as a

1462
02:15:40,300 --> 02:15:45,840
teacher. In my 10th grade class, I teach the play a raisin in the sun written by Leraine's

1463
02:15:45,840 --> 02:15:53,200
Henry and Hansberry and it is about redlining in 1960 Chicago. To set that play up, I often talk

1464
02:15:53,200 --> 02:15:58,740
about what Rochester means to them and the value of living in a neighborhood that makes you

1465
02:16:00,740 --> 02:16:18,620
I've taught this unit for 10 years and every time when I ask the students to use adjectives that define Rochester, they come up with boring, I've had to ban that word, their teenagers, so it's not unexpected, but I really have had to prevent them from saying boring and class.

1466
02:16:18,620 --> 02:16:25,040
I always push back on that observation by describing the opportunities that the Broadway business

1467
02:16:25,040 --> 02:16:25,780
is offer.

1468
02:16:26,260 --> 02:16:31,820
I tell students that Kathy's team offers an open mic where they get to have a voice beyond

1469
02:16:31,820 --> 02:16:32,900
centuries walls.

1470
02:16:33,360 --> 02:16:38,000
When Art Head holds a Zene event, I begin class with an announcement to go if they can.

1471
02:16:38,620 --> 02:16:43,980
I tell them about our poetry readings at the Chateau and Grio, I hang art from local artists

1472
02:16:43,980 --> 02:16:45,380
that I purchased at threshold.

1473
02:16:45,920 --> 02:16:48,560
I talk about my record collection and tree dome.

1474
02:16:49,100 --> 02:16:52,080
I shared about four times when diatom books

1475
02:16:52,080 --> 02:16:55,140
opened the most adorable little closet of a bookstore.

1476
02:16:55,920 --> 02:16:57,740
And last time I was there, Lucie the owner,

1477
02:16:57,960 --> 02:16:59,720
told me that she had seen a freshman

1478
02:16:59,720 --> 02:17:02,900
from century multiple times who was always walking out

1479
02:17:02,900 --> 02:17:06,140
with a stack of new old books as an English teacher's dream.

1480
02:17:06,920 --> 02:17:09,200
It is hard to believe that I need to argue

1481
02:17:09,200 --> 02:17:12,200
for the preservation of the city and the culture of my city

1482
02:17:12,200 --> 02:17:18,240
and that's the third largest city in a state that is the most arts-funded state in the Union,

1483
02:17:18,700 --> 02:17:24,760
would consider disrupting our most unique spaces for seven floors of a towering milkto skyline.

1484
02:17:25,060 --> 02:17:29,160
I'm proud to see that many Rochesterians are here to stand up for our small businesses.

1485
02:17:30,140 --> 02:17:34,760
I'm asking, as I'm guessing you've figured out, for a vote to deny the appeal,

1486
02:17:35,060 --> 02:17:39,220
it does not hold up this here, your standards, it doesn't fit into the historic vision plan,

1487
02:17:39,220 --> 02:17:44,980
And it's such a dangerous precedent that would discourage any new independent businesses to take shape in our landscape.

1488
02:17:45,880 --> 02:17:51,120
I'm here's a teacher for my students and I'm running out of time, so it's just like a lecturing class.

1489
02:17:51,960 --> 02:17:55,160
And I'm sorry I didn't read a poem, but thank you for listening to all of us.

1490
02:17:55,500 --> 02:17:58,440
Thank you. Next we have Connor Quartron.

1491
02:18:08,040 --> 02:18:15,840
Well, my name is Connor Quartron. I am Mutton. Now 22 and to give you some backstory on myself.

1492
02:18:16,440 --> 02:18:23,420
I was born and raised here and I went to school in Cassen and I had a teacher who had

1493
02:18:23,420 --> 02:18:30,340
a class called Genius Hour where you were to come up with a Shark Tank product and you

1494
02:18:30,340 --> 02:18:35,640
did basically the whole class making the project and my project was this brand called Seamless

1495
02:18:36,560 --> 02:18:42,880
and the vision at its time was just for clothing but then it turned into skateboarding and

1496
02:18:42,880 --> 02:18:48,220
As you can tell, with the community how important skateboarding is, especially with the expansion of the skate park,

1497
02:18:48,820 --> 02:18:52,980
there is going to be more people coming into this town for the skate park just in itself,

1498
02:18:53,980 --> 02:18:57,260
and treed on isn't just a music record store.

1499
02:18:57,840 --> 02:18:59,040
It's now a skate shop.

1500
02:18:59,620 --> 02:19:07,960
And it's the only one really that sells used skate goods because there's zoomies, and there's the garden,

1501
02:19:08,860 --> 02:19:11,360
and none of those places will sell my product.

1502
02:19:12,400 --> 02:19:25,900
The garden is a professionally only, you know, supporting of local brands, you have to be a professional skateboarder to actually have your things in there.

1503
02:19:26,220 --> 02:19:35,840
And thank you, Rich and Charlie for taking me in and supporting my vision and my dream because no one else would, and they are the only people that will.

1504
02:19:35,840 --> 02:19:40,340
And if you approve this, they will be gone and I have nothing.

1505
02:19:40,960 --> 02:19:47,240
I have nothing and it's not just that it's that this will help the community in the sense

1506
02:19:47,240 --> 02:19:53,160
of that I use my brand to build events and to support the local scene as much as I possibly

1507
02:19:53,160 --> 02:19:53,460
can.

1508
02:19:53,640 --> 02:19:58,980
I put out videos to try to encourage people to just keep skateboarding, skateboarding is a very

1509
02:19:58,980 --> 02:19:59,820
important thing.

1510
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:07,340
It helps people not just connect with the community, but also with sobriety and challenging and athleticism exercise.

1511
02:20:07,820 --> 02:20:18,240
I don't have to get into it. You already know. But it's not just skateboarding. That's important here. It's also the scene of people that come together that make Rochester Rochester.

1512
02:20:19,600 --> 02:20:37,140
And it's not just the people who are already here, it's the people that are coming in, like, you know, even celebrities, just yesterday David, our cat from the screen series was directing inside a Kathy's bar, this scene, if you changed the look, no one will care.

1513
02:20:37,140 --> 02:20:42,760
I mean, this will be influenced on the people generations to come.

1514
02:20:42,940 --> 02:20:43,960
This isn't just the now.

1515
02:20:44,140 --> 02:20:49,500
This is, you know, for the future generation of our community.

1516
02:20:50,680 --> 02:20:55,380
And I understand that I don't know specifics on the building and everything like that.

1517
02:20:55,380 --> 02:20:56,820
So the choice is yours here.

1518
02:20:57,200 --> 02:21:03,640
And you know the importance of the community, but just know that this country is built on dreams.

1519
02:21:03,640 --> 02:21:09,740
And this place is the biggest supporter of dreams that I've ever seen in my entire life.

1520
02:21:10,080 --> 02:21:12,080
And these people make this town.

1521
02:21:12,560 --> 02:21:14,060
So thank you for your time.

1522
02:21:14,860 --> 02:21:15,380
Thank you.

1523
02:21:15,820 --> 02:21:17,840
Next we have Amy Garrison.

1524
02:21:31,840 --> 02:21:39,420
In 2025, I spoke on this topic on behalf of this Maggie Penetta and Mr. Nate Nelson,

1525
02:21:39,420 --> 02:21:45,920
owners of TREDOM records and creative studio and a wonderful skateboard job.

1526
02:21:46,700 --> 02:21:52,260
Tonight, I have come with a statement from Mr. Nelson, Mr. Nelson and Ms.

1527
02:21:52,260 --> 02:22:00,580
Phaneta again that I would like to share with you. They write, Dear City Council, we are

1528
02:22:00,580 --> 02:22:06,080
writing as the owners of TREDOM, the vinyl record store and all ages music venue at

1529
02:22:06,080 --> 02:22:14,480
re-09 South Broadway to uphold the decision of the Historic Preservation Commission and deny the appeal

1530
02:22:14,480 --> 02:22:21,000
for the proposed development on South Broadway. There should be no comparison to previous

1531
02:22:21,000 --> 02:22:28,000
proposals for development on this block because each proposal has had the same outcome, disruptions

1532
02:22:28,000 --> 02:22:31,240
and displacement that cannot be undone,

1533
02:22:31,980 --> 02:22:34,300
historic properties forever changed,

1534
02:22:35,840 --> 02:22:36,960
and construction.

1535
02:22:38,440 --> 02:22:43,180
Our location at 309 is set for nearly full demolition in this proposal.

1536
02:22:43,720 --> 02:22:46,880
When no other efforts have been made to renovate the property,

1537
02:22:49,570 --> 02:22:52,290
I will move down to share a few more excerpts from this letter.

1538
02:22:53,690 --> 02:22:58,010
They want to take a moment to share how treat-um brings attention to this district

1539
02:22:58,010 --> 02:23:05,810
at a larger scale. Earlier this year, we received a backing small businesses grant from Main Street

1540
02:23:05,810 --> 02:23:13,610
America and American Express, a growth and innovation grant specifically for businesses in historic

1541
02:23:13,610 --> 02:23:22,270
districts with strong community impact. Tridum was one of only 400 recipients nationwide and only

1542
02:23:22,270 --> 02:23:31,270
eight in Minnesota. Mr. Nelson and Miss Penetta include this fact because affecting the historic

1543
02:23:31,270 --> 02:23:37,530
property status would affect small businesses like theirs the ability to apply for these

1544
02:23:37,530 --> 02:23:43,970
grants to pay their fair market rate to building owners such as how so you see how these

1545
02:23:43,970 --> 02:23:46,150
things they are tied together.

1546
02:23:50,820 --> 02:23:54,520
Last year, when the council was last approached about this

1547
02:23:54,520 --> 02:24:00,640
project. Much time was given to the idea that businesses on our block were only there for

1548
02:24:00,640 --> 02:24:07,280
sweet heart rent deals. And that without rent increases the buildings would become economically

1549
02:24:07,280 --> 02:24:13,740
and viable. Shortly after last city council meeting regarding this property, we entered into

1550
02:24:13,740 --> 02:24:20,640
a new three year rental agreement for the space, but with a rent increase of nearly 100% over

1551
02:24:20,640 --> 02:24:25,980
those three years, and a 60% increase already in state it.

1552
02:24:26,240 --> 02:24:32,220
We felt that the new rate in term was a fair adjustment to support the building, but at

1553
02:24:32,220 --> 02:24:35,800
a pace we were only able to manage by making significant changes.

1554
02:24:36,580 --> 02:24:43,680
The important thing to us was remaining in that space, not just for location, but because of

1555
02:24:43,680 --> 02:24:46,600
the history of these community spaces.

1556
02:24:46,600 --> 02:24:51,040
Our music scene is about to undergo significant changes.

1557
02:24:51,640 --> 02:24:59,340
Without thesis, beer project, Rochester, thaw, changes to the chat toe, making it critical for us to maintain our space.

1558
02:24:59,800 --> 02:24:59,960
Thank you.

1559
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:03,020
Keep Rochester's musical legacy alive.

1560
02:25:05,490 --> 02:25:19,950
The full version of this letter, I believe, was emailed to council members. I do have a full version of the letter, including different historical photographs of the property and photo taken at freedom events.

1561
02:25:21,570 --> 02:25:36,750
And so that is my conclusion of representing the owners of Triton as myself, Amy, I just want to say I am so proud of all of these young people who got up here tonight to speak.

1562
02:25:37,290 --> 02:25:46,090
It's certainly not easy to approach the council and talk about these very large and meaningful adult issues.

1563
02:25:46,090 --> 02:25:49,750
can be hard to navigate and hard to understand.

1564
02:25:53,190 --> 02:26:01,530
I know it's hard to be a property owner. I don't

1565
02:26:01,530 --> 02:26:11,910
think that Mr. Henderson is, you know, this evil person. It's not about that. Simply,

1566
02:26:13,470 --> 02:26:20,690
just simply this appeal really should be denied. It was already denied by the HPC and I just

1567
02:26:20,690 --> 02:26:30,270
have not seen evidence within that large multi-page proposal. I can't remember how many pages

1568
02:26:30,270 --> 02:26:36,790
it was. I did read the whole thing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, so thank you very much

1569
02:26:36,790 --> 02:26:42,710
Thank you council and may I present the letter and if if you give that to the city clerk

1570
02:26:43,190 --> 02:26:50,910
I sorry, I certainly will thank you so much for your time. So we are on our final page. I have seven more

1571
02:26:51,670 --> 02:26:54,170
folks that have signed up

1572
02:26:54,710 --> 02:27:01,830
After the seven people speak I will ask if there is anyone else who wishes to speak

1573
02:27:01,830 --> 02:27:27,190
So, if you're thinking about wanting to speak, I think if you can let someone from our city clerk staff know that so that we are very efficient in getting those folks on the list after the last person speaks, I will close the public hearing and we will take a 10 minute break.

1574
02:27:27,190 --> 02:27:29,410
So with that, I'm on the last page.

1575
02:27:29,410 --> 02:27:34,450
I have seven signed up and the next person is Andrew Kinoff.

1576
02:27:40,500 --> 02:27:46,220
Good evening, Mayor Norton City Council, Council President Schubering.

1577
02:27:46,780 --> 02:27:53,460
I have essentially six takeaways that I can't want to talk about here relative to agenda item G1.

1578
02:27:53,800 --> 02:28:00,060
I agree with the HBC's majority viewpoint that the proposed addition and rehabilitation

1579
02:28:00,060 --> 02:28:05,240
file late several standards in the Secretary of the Interior's guidelines for treatment

1580
02:28:05,240 --> 02:28:12,040
of historic buildings and support the denial of the COA. Key takeaway number two, well,

1581
02:28:12,140 --> 02:28:16,220
the city and the applicant did their due diligence and provided significant information

1582
02:28:16,220 --> 02:28:20,980
relative to the project. I believe that city staffers at the community development committee

1583
02:28:20,980 --> 02:28:28,240
got their decision wrong in initially recommending a COA in three reasons for that. The

1584
02:28:28,240 --> 02:28:34,240
The interpretation of the standards referenced was very narrow and highlighted certain aspects

1585
02:28:34,240 --> 02:28:39,440
of the proposal that supported a narrative while disregarding or minimized others.

1586
02:28:40,020 --> 02:28:44,400
The community development committee did not consider the full scope of the project,

1587
02:28:45,180 --> 02:28:48,720
especially relative to other cultural and historical landmarks in the city.

1588
02:28:49,220 --> 02:28:50,520
And their views have said landmarks.

1589
02:28:51,300 --> 02:28:52,420
We've heard a little bit about this.

1590
02:28:52,420 --> 02:28:57,500
the view shed and spatial relationships of the plumber building and the caler sign.

1591
02:28:58,680 --> 02:29:02,980
The Community Development Committee consistently is conjecture an opinion to reach its decision

1592
02:29:02,980 --> 02:29:09,100
to recommend a COA approval, which is in direct contradiction to the modus operandi of this process.

1593
02:29:09,960 --> 02:29:15,680
The third takeaway I have here is in my professional capacity as a small business owner.

1594
02:29:16,300 --> 02:29:21,860
I do a significant amount of computer-aided design that would be CAD work that's drafting of ground plans,

1595
02:29:21,860 --> 02:29:26,160
sections, elevations, perspectives, basically what you saw in the submittal.

1596
02:29:27,440 --> 02:29:31,260
When I reviewed all the documents that were in the submittal, there were several things

1597
02:29:31,260 --> 02:29:33,640
that were missing from these drawings.

1598
02:29:34,660 --> 02:29:36,440
There were key annotations that were missing.

1599
02:29:36,580 --> 02:29:38,280
There were dimensions that were missing.

1600
02:29:39,420 --> 02:29:45,040
There was, sorry, there was not Northstamps to orient somebody looking at the drawings.

1601
02:29:46,040 --> 02:29:50,540
The drawings have been built architecture since the sidewalks, roads, trees, and alleyways.

1602
02:29:50,540 --> 02:29:59,980
The drawing's lack proper use of line weights, which are different thicknesses of lines to make drawings easier to understand, and they do not include any use of color to graphically.

1603
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:24,240
Explain architectural elements. Additionally, beyond the drawings, the renderings are also inefficient. The renderings do not show in any existing detail of the architectural components in the area. That would ideally be included to adjudicate the project, into totality, including architecture of the Kathy's rooftop and views of both the plumber building and the caler sign.

1604
02:30:25,000 --> 02:30:29,460
Lastly, in this regard, the use of white model boxes to show other existing architectural

1605
02:30:29,460 --> 02:30:35,080
components, minimizes the viewers' ability to see how the proposed edition specifically

1606
02:30:35,080 --> 02:30:41,440
violates the spatial relationships found spatial relationship language, excuse me, found

1607
02:30:41,440 --> 02:30:42,920
in standards two and nine.

1608
02:30:43,560 --> 02:30:47,120
So from a professional perspective and a drafting perspective, I just think we have a lot

1609
02:30:47,120 --> 02:30:49,740
of issues with what was submitted here.

1610
02:30:50,780 --> 02:31:11,280
Key, finding number four, nowhere in the administrative record, which is referenced by the applicant in the appeal multiple times, nowhere in that record did I see any indication that the applicant engaged the business owning tenants about this proposal or engaged the public, which I do not think shows a good faith effort.

1611
02:31:12,560 --> 02:31:16,360
And just a couple more for you here in my minute and a half remaining.

1612
02:31:18,260 --> 02:31:30,340
I was very surprised I would say maybe even shocked that a private developer or property owner can go directly to a small city department and things go their way.

1613
02:31:30,640 --> 02:31:39,100
Could potentially have a massive landscaping altering construction project approved with virtually no tenant community or public input.

1614
02:31:39,100 --> 02:31:43,040
that seems on Democratic, and that seems deceptive.

1615
02:31:43,740 --> 02:31:49,800
And finally, I also think it's very surprising and shocking that the community development

1616
02:31:49,800 --> 02:31:55,380
department process does not include any public hearings for community to offer input.

1617
02:31:56,120 --> 02:32:01,720
That seems disingenuous and egregious, and I hope in the future the council can address

1618
02:32:01,720 --> 02:32:03,480
specifically items five and six.

1619
02:32:03,720 --> 02:32:04,340
Thanks for your time.

1620
02:32:04,460 --> 02:32:05,080
Have a great night.

1621
02:32:05,280 --> 02:32:05,900
Thank you.

1622
02:32:06,340 --> 02:32:09,420
Next we have Dilleth Alverson,

1623
02:32:13,110 --> 02:32:13,710
Dilleth.

1624
02:32:15,430 --> 02:32:17,670
I probably messed up your name.

1625
02:32:21,600 --> 02:32:23,100
It's Danielson for the record.

1626
02:32:23,600 --> 02:32:25,440
But, Dan, where's the D in there?

1627
02:32:25,880 --> 02:32:26,500
Okay, go ahead.

1628
02:32:27,980 --> 02:32:30,000
My name is Dylan. I'm 27 years old.

1629
02:32:30,180 --> 02:32:32,320
Most of my life has been spent in and around here.

1630
02:32:32,640 --> 02:32:36,260
I spent a lot of days at the Mayo R&R as a kid, graduated from RCTC.

1631
02:32:36,480 --> 02:32:39,200
I worked two jobs here in F2, community about 40 minutes to do anything.

1632
02:32:39,200 --> 02:32:41,620
So, Rochester is effectively my home.

1633
02:32:41,900 --> 02:32:47,600
This city has one of the greatest music and arts community that I've ever seen easily in Minnesota anywhere else for that matter.

1634
02:32:48,400 --> 02:32:53,620
So, we want to preserve what little joy we still have left and I'm going to point a little thread here, so bear with me.

1635
02:32:54,020 --> 02:33:00,600
But the average person is struggling to get by, a conservative estimate, tells us about 25% of American families live paycheck to paycheck.

1636
02:33:00,600 --> 02:33:07,120
activity increases wage, wages remain mostly stagnant. We have an affordability crisis and economic and

1637
02:33:07,120 --> 02:33:11,260
equality and mobility is now worse than it was in the yielded age. All that to say in a deeply

1638
02:33:11,260 --> 02:33:15,860
inequitable society, one where face-to-face human interaction is less common than in generations

1639
02:33:15,860 --> 02:33:21,100
past, where we live more alienated and isolated lives. People need to feel like there are part of

1640
02:33:21,100 --> 02:33:26,860
something that matters. Something beyond ourselves at the bare minimum. Local businesses in general,

1641
02:33:26,860 --> 02:33:31,840
in our community in particular, you have so many of us are belonging to a huge part of our identity.

1642
02:33:32,800 --> 02:33:39,820
Unfortunately, not only the average person's wallet being plundered, but our cultural institutions and third spaces have been under attack by corporate interest for decades.

1643
02:33:40,520 --> 02:33:46,960
It's nothing new, and we need to wholly reject it at every turn or risk exceeding even more ground to people who don't have any of our interests at heart.

1644
02:33:47,580 --> 02:33:50,760
What good is more apartments the average person will struggle to afford it?

1645
02:33:51,000 --> 02:33:53,380
And what good is a city if there are no spaces for us to belong?

1646
02:33:53,820 --> 02:33:56,840
What's the point of working if we can't immerse ourselves in the world around us from

1647
02:33:56,840 --> 02:33:57,620
we're off the clock?

1648
02:33:58,300 --> 02:34:02,480
Our local businesses matter, without them, we're a monotonous corporate slopscape.

1649
02:34:02,860 --> 02:34:05,800
We've become just another soulless coffee pace city where we can get the same to

1650
02:34:05,800 --> 02:34:09,800
potable, you get in Florida, the same Walmart, you can get in Washington State, and drive

1651
02:34:09,800 --> 02:34:12,220
the same gut-offel strode you would interrogate Indiana.

1652
02:34:12,680 --> 02:34:15,860
We're losing thesis beer project and that's already too steep of a price for me to pay.

1653
02:34:16,300 --> 02:34:18,220
We're Rochester, and that means something to me.

1654
02:34:18,680 --> 02:34:20,760
The arts are not just commercial, they're essential.

1655
02:34:20,760 --> 02:34:24,120
These aren't just businesses, they're cultural pillars to us.

1656
02:34:24,560 --> 02:34:26,920
Treadoam, Cafe Steam, threshold, they're essential.

1657
02:34:27,920 --> 02:34:28,840
Treadoam is a wonderful place.

1658
02:34:29,020 --> 02:34:30,640
Me and so many others go to for concerts.

1659
02:34:31,220 --> 02:34:33,580
I performed at Cafe Steam in 2024 for the office,

1660
02:34:34,040 --> 02:34:36,620
and it's our closest thing to a third place that I can think of.

1661
02:34:36,860 --> 02:34:38,760
threshold and art heads, they welcome me without judgment.

1662
02:34:39,360 --> 02:34:42,280
We can't afford the cost of losing functional and mind you,

1663
02:34:42,300 --> 02:34:45,980
commercially viable businesses and let them be eaten alive by disinterested capital.

1664
02:34:46,600 --> 02:34:49,680
Artistic fulfillment and collective purpose supersedes private interests.

1665
02:34:49,680 --> 02:34:55,920
Now, in forever, we work to live, not live to work, and we require communal spaces to put it plainly.

1666
02:34:56,060 --> 02:34:59,980
Me and many others don't believe it as a community development, always see as the acceleration of community.

1667
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:29,980
Community collapse. Given that these businesses are not shutting down naturally, I think there's no other way to phrase it. So when earlier called it suicide, I would beg the differ. It's not meant words. I think it's a form of cultural homicide. These places are all we have. We have these nice things like people over profit and all that abstract idealist language isn't for nothing. But these people are in front of you. They're real. They're here. People watching outside, people in their homes. So self-shurbing short term gain for one man is never ever worth the human costs. It's right in front of you. Three failures should be enough to strike

1668
02:35:29,980 --> 02:35:34,040
out. So let's make something clear. We're all here today again to reject every time to destroy

1669
02:35:34,040 --> 02:35:38,160
our irreplaceable arts community. We will again, if and when we need to, home to make the

1670
02:35:38,160 --> 02:35:41,680
right choice. Thank you. Next we have John Prissel.

1671
02:35:51,110 --> 02:35:54,130
Goodness. Madam Mayor, Mr. President,

1672
02:35:54,210 --> 02:35:59,290
members of the council. I've been going to City Council meetings since approximately

1673
02:35:59,290 --> 02:36:12,630
in 1964 when the city of Rochester rejected given the piece of property that now is a parking lot

1674
02:36:12,630 --> 02:36:19,110
where Kmart is, the Graham Arena, and going there since here again since 64.

1675
02:36:22,210 --> 02:36:29,270
This is epic

1676
02:36:29,270 --> 02:36:32,630
life because of the people that have spoken here tonight.

1677
02:36:33,050 --> 02:36:40,350
This gives me hope so much hope because attending all these city council meetings has been

1678
02:36:40,350 --> 02:36:46,890
a drag, it's been an embarrassment because our city has freely given away its soul.

1679
02:36:48,090 --> 02:36:55,990
It's even doing it more so now with the help of tiff money, with the help of outside landlords

1680
02:36:55,990 --> 02:37:02,370
words that could care less about the fabric of this particular community, it's being discovered

1681
02:37:02,370 --> 02:37:09,710
by outside money so that it can turn into something that in the future the useful leave

1682
02:37:09,710 --> 02:37:13,990
this community because there's nothing here, there's nothing here of uniqueness.

1683
02:37:16,580 --> 02:37:20,380
So here again I'm given hope for the first time since about 1964.

1684
02:37:20,380 --> 02:37:20,760
before.

1685
02:37:22,900 --> 02:37:30,480
I say, everybody that came here before me because maybe some of you will stay here

1686
02:37:30,480 --> 02:37:34,040
in the future. My family has been here for six generations.

1687
02:37:36,140 --> 02:37:37,520
I don't know what that means.

1688
02:37:38,100 --> 02:37:44,140
I guess it means that there was hope someplace along the way so they would stay here again

1689
02:37:44,140 --> 02:37:51,360
for a few more generations. But the vision is in your hands. If you lack the vision,

1690
02:37:51,360 --> 02:38:10,040
And do not understand the fabric of a community and what a community is, the youth will come here for some training and then they will leave because this is a bland, sterile community.

1691
02:38:10,880 --> 02:38:14,040
Let us not be that way in the future.

1692
02:38:17,460 --> 02:38:24,360
I ask you to deny the project as put forth again for the, what is it?

1693
02:38:24,460 --> 02:38:34,020
The fourth time by Hal and his team, the Commission, HPC, who are the experts, not city staff,

1694
02:38:35,720 --> 02:38:37,280
have given you their findings.

1695
02:38:37,280 --> 02:38:43,540
Now, I will ask you this, do experts contact other experts.

1696
02:38:44,940 --> 02:38:50,640
As I understand it, the experts here, within the city council, did not contact Mr.

1697
02:38:50,820 --> 02:38:51,200
Coup.

1698
02:38:52,600 --> 02:38:59,680
So, why would they not seek another expert in the state of Minnesota, to phone call away?

1699
02:38:59,680 --> 02:39:10,120
that negates their ability to even be called experts, experts are HPC. They are a commission.

1700
02:39:10,780 --> 02:39:19,080
They're advisory to you. You take their word over city staff. They are not the experts.

1701
02:39:22,080 --> 02:39:30,660
Now I want to touch on a few points that Bob Hicei believes said, if I'm not mistaken, I think there were some

1702
02:39:30,660 --> 02:39:38,480
correct details there. He said downtown business owners support this. He asked for data

1703
02:39:38,480 --> 02:39:46,580
in fact. Where are those data in fact? He said development is not wanted really. Where's that

1704
02:39:47,520 --> 02:39:54,200
where's that data and where are those facts? Maybe we got too many cranes around here. I don't know.

1705
02:39:55,560 --> 02:39:59,840
There are, if I'm not mistaken, the Mayo Clinic has 31 surface parking lots.

1706
02:40:00,000 --> 02:40:07,180
Senator, yet to be developed. We have other land available to be developed. It's development ready.

1707
02:40:08,000 --> 02:40:10,340
Collection tax base from that.

1708
02:40:12,560 --> 02:40:19,040
And I believe Bob mentioned that the ally has been enhanced really?

1709
02:40:20,880 --> 02:40:25,460
I've been to many studies over the years where we talked about enhancing allies.

1710
02:40:25,460 --> 02:40:31,780
He also said that they enhance the LA by, I guess,

1711
02:40:31,900 --> 02:40:35,140
to create team comments dealing with a waste stream.

1712
02:40:35,520 --> 02:40:37,520
If this project takes place,

1713
02:40:37,860 --> 02:40:39,780
people are not going to walk through that LA.

1714
02:40:40,560 --> 02:40:42,600
It's not going to be an inviting space.

1715
02:40:43,220 --> 02:40:45,540
Put yourself in a car coming from the south,

1716
02:40:46,040 --> 02:40:46,640
driving north.

1717
02:40:47,100 --> 02:40:48,100
What are you going to see?

1718
02:40:48,480 --> 02:40:51,620
Are you going to be invited into a community that welcomes you?

1719
02:40:52,480 --> 02:40:55,240
That is, thank you very much for your time.

1720
02:40:55,240 --> 02:41:03,080
and the vision is yours. Thank you, Mr. Christo. Thank you very much. Lucy Christo.

1721
02:41:13,090 --> 02:41:20,190
You said my name, right? Yes, I did. Lucy Christo. Number 34. I've been counting. Good evening.

1722
02:41:21,650 --> 02:41:26,090
Good evening. Thank you for your time. Good to see all your faces. My name is Lucy. I'm the owner of

1723
02:41:26,090 --> 02:41:32,010
Diatom Books located 319321, which shares a brick wall with the adjacent buildings and

1724
02:41:32,010 --> 02:41:37,850
question, it's only entrances via the alleyway which is very unique between 3rd and 4th.

1725
02:41:38,430 --> 02:41:43,010
I'm a second generation business owner in the historic district, let the familiar family

1726
02:41:43,010 --> 02:41:49,850
antique business being an anchor and steward of the district for 50 issues on historic 3rd.

1727
02:41:50,770 --> 02:41:56,770
So my business, John's business as well as many small unique quirky enterprises that are

1728
02:41:56,770 --> 02:42:01,430
located in contributing buildings would be directly affected by this proposal in a multitude

1729
02:42:01,430 --> 02:42:04,290
of ways. Some who haven't been mentioned tonight,

1730
02:42:05,270 --> 02:42:07,590
Kathy's, tap house, threshold arts,

1731
02:42:08,110 --> 02:42:09,630
solely flow, rates the artist,

1732
02:42:10,390 --> 02:42:12,250
luckies, bitter and poor, the garrons,

1733
02:42:12,530 --> 02:42:14,310
smoke shop, historic Francis Apartments,

1734
02:42:14,630 --> 02:42:16,750
Typop, those are also all businesses

1735
02:42:16,750 --> 02:42:20,130
which are loved and coveted in this corridor.

1736
02:42:20,790 --> 02:42:23,530
Keep in mind that the alleyway is the lifeblood

1737
02:42:23,530 --> 02:42:27,050
of all of these businesses, even to include

1738
02:42:27,050 --> 02:42:30,190
the non-contributing complex of three-18 comments.

1739
02:42:30,190 --> 02:42:32,470
So I know waste isn't pretty, but it definitely

1740
02:42:32,470 --> 02:42:35,450
is part of this ecosystem, and I see it all the time.

1741
02:42:35,590 --> 02:42:39,270
I don't feel as though the west side of these buildings

1742
02:42:39,270 --> 02:42:43,370
has been discussed enough as being appropriate and essential

1743
02:42:43,370 --> 02:42:45,470
for these businesses to function.

1744
02:42:46,190 --> 02:42:47,590
So why do people stay in Rochester?

1745
02:42:47,950 --> 02:42:51,090
I can't even turn around because I'll, yeah, who?

1746
02:42:52,610 --> 02:42:54,530
Because, you know, everybody's

1747
02:42:54,530 --> 02:42:55,570
set it in this room, right?

1748
02:42:56,030 --> 02:42:57,450
Like, the wind is in our sails.

1749
02:42:57,730 --> 02:42:59,450
We've already won, because we have

1750
02:42:59,450 --> 02:43:04,430
community here, but I just wanted to share some of the things people have said to me just

1751
02:43:04,430 --> 02:43:10,010
testimonies over just being open nine months. Our senses are overwhelmed. This is a place

1752
02:43:10,010 --> 02:43:17,630
of solace in between our appointments. This is where I take my family when they visit. I made

1753
02:43:17,630 --> 02:43:25,530
my first true friend here. How you experience this part of town makes you want to stay, right?

1754
02:43:25,530 --> 02:43:27,590
We know this is true.

1755
02:43:28,290 --> 02:43:33,310
You already know this, you've heard all the testimonies tonight from all of these incredible articulate neighbors.

1756
02:43:34,370 --> 02:43:41,230
This district in this neighborhood is vibrant and animated, and the historic district soul is our ballast.

1757
02:43:41,910 --> 02:43:46,750
So when you hear and repeat tonight, I love acts, I love why I love going to this music thing.

1758
02:43:46,750 --> 02:43:53,990
It's not even just a affection, it's this need for safe, inspiring, third places that are

1759
02:43:53,990 --> 02:44:00,090
human scale in size and in soul, okay, and there's a lot of names for it, it can be your tribe,

1760
02:44:00,170 --> 02:44:05,470
your respite, the spirit, softness, culture, connection, but it's all the same thing we've heard

1761
02:44:05,470 --> 02:44:13,330
it tonight, pride for this downtown neighborhood. I just want to briefly touch on how this is

1762
02:44:13,330 --> 02:44:19,810
unnecessary development and just touch on state historic preservation, office should have been consulted,

1763
02:44:20,530 --> 02:44:21,650
still needs to be considered.

1764
02:44:23,030 --> 02:44:27,190
These have always been commercial buildings, standard one, the viewshed to include adjacent

1765
02:44:27,190 --> 02:44:29,610
contributing buildings, standard two.

1766
02:44:30,890 --> 02:44:32,510
You've heard these all before, okay?

1767
02:44:33,130 --> 02:44:39,670
And just to the applicant, regardless of the amount of hours and accommodations and discussions

1768
02:44:39,670 --> 02:44:46,170
and effort. That does not equal that a home run has been hit here. Third time is in the

1769
02:44:46,170 --> 02:44:52,870
charm. It's not right. It's not right for this place. So when I'm thinking about, you

1770
02:44:52,870 --> 02:44:58,370
know, are we going to see, are we going to get what we see here? I'm not sure. I love doing

1771
02:44:58,370 --> 02:44:59,850
the last speakers talking about.

1772
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:18,600
I feel like the insufficient responses to the standards, to the violated standards, not just one, okay, but six, and that there is a sense of not good faith, by not directly addressing these concerns from community members.

1773
02:45:22,340 --> 02:45:33,500
So when we're, especially when we're engaging community history, right, there's a level of responsibility to the stewardship of history that is not just our own.

1774
02:45:33,880 --> 02:45:41,900
It's, it's other people who have been in the room tonight and who aren't in the room tonight who share stories about this block that is so essential and there's a responsibility there.

1775
02:45:43,140 --> 02:45:53,200
Both staff and the applicant have acted out of staff with the UDC preservation standards in addition to undermining the expertise of the commissioners who serve on our HPC.

1776
02:45:53,880 --> 02:45:55,320
Please do not deny these findings.

1777
02:45:56,540 --> 02:45:57,800
Please uphold the denial.

1778
02:45:58,480 --> 02:46:03,640
You know, in with the old, let us not lose our imaginations of what we can create here.

1779
02:46:04,080 --> 02:46:10,640
I was a mainstream grant recipient, so we're many others, and a lot of money has been invested into this community already.

1780
02:46:11,420 --> 02:46:16,400
also into the Downtown Commercial Historic District, which is our future history. So I just

1781
02:46:16,400 --> 02:46:21,180
ask you, this is really hard work, we would all agree and at the end of the day it's

1782
02:46:21,180 --> 02:46:26,360
always worth it. Thank you for your time. Thanks, Ms. Krisa. Next, we have Emily Brith.

1783
02:46:31,790 --> 02:46:36,450
Good evening Madam Mayor and members of the council. My name is Emily Brithsman and I'm the

1784
02:46:36,450 --> 02:46:42,770
mother of three teenage boys. My kids don't play sports. They don't yet have jobs to go to.

1785
02:46:43,810 --> 02:46:55,630
And, but you know, they, they are readers, they're artists in their music musicians, and they are also chronically at a loss for things to do in Rochester, that are age appropriate and safe.

1786
02:46:56,910 --> 02:47:06,150
Treat them as the only business in town that they are actually excited to go with me and spend time together as a family digging through bins looking for albums.

1787
02:47:06,770 --> 02:47:11,630
The records we buy there together give us something to talk about and connect on long after we leave the shop.

1788
02:47:12,450 --> 02:47:17,830
I can honestly say this business has helped my family stay bonded through the teenage years.

1789
02:47:18,230 --> 02:47:19,230
And that's a challenge, right?

1790
02:47:20,550 --> 02:47:24,070
I've also found treat them to be a safe space for my kids to hang out at.

1791
02:47:24,290 --> 02:47:29,090
Something that, by the way, we did not have when I was a teenager here.

1792
02:47:30,210 --> 02:47:33,270
It is the only venue in town where they can spend an evening with their friends,

1793
02:47:33,470 --> 02:47:37,970
listening to live music, and not be around people drinking, and all that comes with that.

1794
02:47:38,770 --> 02:47:42,930
Hundreds of kids attend shows at treat them on a regular basis.

1795
02:47:43,690 --> 02:47:46,950
When they are there, they actually put away their phones and engage with music and

1796
02:47:46,950 --> 02:47:49,570
the atmosphere while enjoying each other's company.

1797
02:47:49,810 --> 02:47:53,430
And if you have teenagers, you know that this is an increasingly rare phenomenon.

1798
02:47:54,990 --> 02:47:58,250
If this is a replacement for the apartments, there's literally nowhere else in town that these

1799
02:47:58,250 --> 02:48:01,070
kids can go that will fill the same need that they have.

1800
02:48:04,890 --> 02:48:07,610
I have also attended multiple community events at these businesses.

1801
02:48:07,670 --> 02:48:10,150
They actively support local artists like my husband.

1802
02:48:10,690 --> 02:48:15,670
who, and it gives them a space to, to share of it and sell of their work.

1803
02:48:16,530 --> 02:48:23,670
Developers care about getting a return for their investors, but the city residents will be the ones that pay the cost if we lose the space to development.

1804
02:48:24,810 --> 02:48:33,290
The construction of the apartments alone would do these businesses in, losing these spaces would mean more than losing a coffee shop or an art shop and a record store.

1805
02:48:33,290 --> 02:48:36,990
They are cultural cornerstones in a company town.

1806
02:48:37,230 --> 02:48:41,750
For most downtown public spaces are not actually for the residents of Rochester.

1807
02:48:43,230 --> 02:48:45,730
Rochester cannot survive on Mayo alone.

1808
02:48:46,510 --> 02:48:48,670
And people may move here to work at the hospital,

1809
02:48:48,930 --> 02:48:52,610
but it's places like Tritom, Art Heds, and Cafe Steam that get them to stay.

1810
02:48:53,290 --> 02:48:57,930
Please vote to deny the appeal and protect these important spaces for our community and for our kids.

1811
02:48:58,750 --> 02:48:59,510
Thank you.

1812
02:48:59,950 --> 02:49:01,590
Next we have Jess Garcia.

1813
02:49:01,590 --> 02:49:02,590
Good

1814
02:49:10,200 --> 02:49:15,380
evening. Council President Schubring, members of the City Council Mayor Norton.

1815
02:49:15,920 --> 02:49:20,560
My name is Jessica R.C.A., I'm a word for resident and mayoral candidate who cares

1816
02:49:20,560 --> 02:49:24,980
for and frequency these historic businesses we're all trying to protect tonight.

1817
02:49:26,020 --> 02:49:30,080
We have all been watching in horror as businesses in our city have been struggling and

1818
02:49:30,080 --> 02:49:36,080
or closing down for the last few months, seeking clear and direct help from City Hall.

1819
02:49:36,080 --> 02:49:39,780
Do not let these businesses be the next casualties.

1820
02:49:40,540 --> 02:49:46,140
You have the opportunity to show up for them for all of us by denying this appeal.

1821
02:49:47,440 --> 02:49:52,420
Upleting the denial of the certificate of appropriateness as determined by our local heritage

1822
02:49:52,420 --> 02:49:57,920
preservation commission will signal to the community that you care about what is important

1823
02:49:57,920 --> 02:49:58,820
to us.

1824
02:49:59,320 --> 02:49:59,960
It will signal to...

1825
02:50:00,000 --> 02:50:06,200
Small business owners that you value them. It will signal to building owners that they cannot treat their

1826
02:50:06,200 --> 02:50:11,080
tenants the way they reportedly do and expect to be rewarded for it by us offering them more business.

1827
02:50:12,640 --> 02:50:18,180
When the requester of this appeal is someone I'm told, accepts rent payments from tenants while

1828
02:50:18,180 --> 02:50:24,020
allowing buildings to fall and disappear. After it's repeatedly brought to his attention

1829
02:50:24,020 --> 02:50:28,240
and some other issues you heard from other speakers before me, that is very concerning.

1830
02:50:29,500 --> 02:50:35,920
When the outline standards by the Secretary of the Interior are not followed, as the HPC

1831
02:50:35,920 --> 02:50:39,520
outlined, which they're now trying to discredit, that's also concerning.

1832
02:50:40,760 --> 02:50:45,680
It does not seem this project has the best interests of Rochester residents or small business

1833
02:50:45,680 --> 02:50:46,920
tenants in mind.

1834
02:50:48,180 --> 02:50:53,360
That is made particularly apparent when the apartments they hope to build would be housing

1835
02:50:53,360 --> 02:50:57,600
students that would want to be able to access the businesses targeted and made vulnerable

1836
02:50:57,600 --> 02:51:04,040
by this project. And these young people who spoke before me are all confirming these businesses

1837
02:51:04,040 --> 02:51:11,320
are what will attract and keep them here. So city leaders, I believe that if you have the courage

1838
02:51:11,320 --> 02:51:17,620
today to preserve the historic district you helped create, you will help to maintain the

1839
02:51:17,620 --> 02:51:23,300
vibrancy of downtown. You will ensure the culture and community created on that block and flourish

1840
02:51:23,300 --> 02:51:29,720
and expand outward. You will be helping to maintain a city culture that preserves our heritage

1841
02:51:29,720 --> 02:51:34,880
and uplift every day resident and small business owner over corporate interests.

1842
02:51:35,780 --> 02:51:41,900
So I urge you to deny this appeal. It is not good for our historic downtown. It is not good for

1843
02:51:41,900 --> 02:51:47,240
our small business community. It is not good for the people of our city. Thank you for your time.

1844
02:51:47,240 --> 02:51:52,060
Thank you. Next we have Michelle girl's burger.

1845
02:51:55,580 --> 02:51:56,720
Is she still here?

1846
02:51:59,620 --> 02:52:00,280
Oh, okay.

1847
02:52:02,800 --> 02:52:04,440
Okay. Next we have

1848
02:52:06,180 --> 02:52:07,300
Kristen Meyer.

1849
02:52:15,560 --> 02:52:19,360
Thank you all for listening to me. This is my first city holiday meeting. So

1850
02:52:19,360 --> 02:52:30,480
First of all, I'd like to say that it's just amazing all of the businesses in this block that are available to young people

1851
02:52:30,480 --> 02:52:38,000
Um, where I grew up, we had a TCB Y and a Perkins, um, and, um, so it's, it's, it's wonderful.

1852
02:52:38,180 --> 02:52:45,840
They know obviously what they have and it needs to stay where it is, um, seven years ago,

1853
02:52:46,380 --> 02:52:53,980
I brought my, bought my dream home in Rochester, a 97 year old home at that, um, all the people who

1854
02:52:53,980 --> 02:52:58,960
lived in it before me took excellent care of, um, and I intend to do the same.

1855
02:52:59,700 --> 02:53:04,740
I don't consider myself an owner of this home, I consider myself a caretaker, and that's

1856
02:53:04,740 --> 02:53:10,740
what all of us are of Rochester and the buildings and businesses in history we have here.

1857
02:53:11,480 --> 02:53:16,040
And I would just like everyone to consider that for the future.

1858
02:53:16,220 --> 02:53:20,460
Would you like a future with, you know, these giant, Lord?

1859
02:53:28,380 --> 02:53:35,520
I don't even know the words, it's just, it's not what's fair to Rochester and our history

1860
02:53:35,520 --> 02:53:37,500
and the people who live here.

1861
02:53:37,860 --> 02:53:39,660
So thank you for listening to me.

1862
02:53:39,820 --> 02:53:40,800
Thank you.

1863
02:53:40,820 --> 02:53:43,360
Next we have Nick Navatni.

1864
02:53:49,480 --> 02:53:49,880
All right.

1865
02:53:49,900 --> 02:53:52,060
Thanks for listening to everybody.

1866
02:53:52,060 --> 02:53:57,720
today. I am a small business owner. I'm a co-owner of my time my music and the festival director of the

1867
02:53:57,720 --> 02:54:05,220
Rochester Thought Music Festival that ran from 2019 to 2026 and the heart of our festival was in

1868
02:54:05,220 --> 02:54:10,880
this historic district. The incredible businesses that open their doors to us as a company to

1869
02:54:10,880 --> 02:54:18,060
bring thousands of musicians over the years of the event. It just speaks to the character of people

1870
02:54:18,060 --> 02:54:26,160
run these businesses and operate and hold these buildings. And I think it's so crucial to having

1871
02:54:26,160 --> 02:54:30,780
this vibrant arts and music scene. We've worked with thousands of musicians that we brought

1872
02:54:30,780 --> 02:54:35,720
to Rochester for the first time. And the first thing they tell us about is how special this

1873
02:54:35,720 --> 02:54:40,700
district truly is in the shape that it's in right now. We hear from folks all over the country

1874
02:54:40,700 --> 02:54:46,400
when they come here of Haul. I went to Cafe Steam. I had a best lot to have my life. I went and saw

1875
02:54:46,400 --> 02:54:49,320
Some crazy record I haven't seen in 20 years of trade home.

1876
02:54:49,560 --> 02:54:52,460
It's all of these little things that add to these very crucial

1877
02:54:52,460 --> 02:54:55,220
third spaces that make our city very unique

1878
02:54:55,220 --> 02:54:57,260
and it gives people a reason to come back.

1879
02:54:57,420 --> 02:54:59,980
That's I think the biggest thing any time we worked with.

1880
02:55:00,000 --> 02:55:19,480
Anybody that came through the festival and spent time in this district, the next question I got was, how do I get back? How do I come back? I think if we were to impact this area, you would be having less people asking that question. And I think that's a very dangerous situation that could happen if this building goes through.

1881
02:55:19,480 --> 02:55:25,260
Another note that I just cannot not touch on, there is, and it was mentioned before, there's

1882
02:55:25,260 --> 02:55:29,380
so much pride with the folks that have come up in the spoke, especially the young folks in

1883
02:55:29,380 --> 02:55:33,360
our community that are standing up for their music, their arts, their creative spaces, their

1884
02:55:33,360 --> 02:55:39,340
spaces where they feel safe in a world that seemingly tries to make it harder and harder to feel

1885
02:55:39,340 --> 02:55:48,180
safe every single day. So I think the big point to take is please do stand up to what the historic

1886
02:55:48,180 --> 02:55:51,240
preservation said and keep these buildings intact.

1887
02:55:51,880 --> 02:55:54,360
It is the heartbeat of our arts community.

1888
02:55:54,540 --> 02:55:56,700
It's the heartbeat of our creative economy here.

1889
02:55:57,080 --> 02:56:00,180
And that ripples all the way throughout to the edges of the city.

1890
02:56:00,660 --> 02:56:02,100
So yeah, thanks.

1891
02:56:02,320 --> 02:56:03,720
Thank you, Mr. Nervani.

1892
02:56:04,180 --> 02:56:05,980
Next up, we have Andy Smith.

1893
02:56:11,800 --> 02:56:13,640
Mayor Lorton City Council members

1894
02:56:13,640 --> 02:56:18,100
and very hardworking city staff that sits here as well.

1895
02:56:18,520 --> 02:56:21,060
You guys know me, I've talked all of you many times.

1896
02:56:21,200 --> 02:56:22,040
My name is Andy Smith.

1897
02:56:22,040 --> 02:56:26,580
I am the state representative for this district in the Minnesota House.

1898
02:56:26,620 --> 02:56:30,340
And I'm here on many different wearing many different hats.

1899
02:56:30,500 --> 02:56:31,980
The one is of course, small business owner.

1900
02:56:32,740 --> 02:56:35,340
I want to come and defend my fellow small business owners.

1901
02:56:36,540 --> 02:56:41,920
Two, as someone who loves the arts and who is tried to add to the arts in this city.

1902
02:56:41,920 --> 02:56:46,760
And it's been so grateful for those who have added to that arts community.

1903
02:56:46,760 --> 02:56:53,060
but I do feel that I also am here a bit in my official capacity as the representative of

1904
02:56:53,060 --> 02:56:59,240
this district and this people because I have heard about this particular issue in this vote a lot.

1905
02:57:00,600 --> 02:57:05,800
And I'm happy to be here to tell you this. The Rochester people are optimistic,

1906
02:57:06,240 --> 02:57:11,120
they're wonderful people. We'll love Rochester. We're excited about the future of our city.

1907
02:57:12,180 --> 02:57:24,020
But I do think that there's a growing suspicion with people of Rochester, that that future is going to be guided not by what is best for the vast majority of people of Rochester.

1908
02:57:24,560 --> 02:57:32,540
What will make their lives better, more enjoyable, more fulfilled, but rather by landlords, executives, and corporations.

1909
02:57:33,840 --> 02:57:49,920
And I can't honestly think of a better example of why people have that fear than the idea that to revitalize downtown we would have to morally injure the part of our downtown that is most alive.

1910
02:57:51,500 --> 02:57:54,220
And we know it's the most alive because of what we heard tonight.

1911
02:57:55,120 --> 02:57:59,720
You heard from kids, you heard from the parents of those kids.

1912
02:57:59,920 --> 02:58:03,080
You heard from people who have been here, their family has been here for 50

1913
02:58:03,080 --> 02:58:06,640
of years, people who have moved here this year, to a couple of people who have

1914
02:58:06,640 --> 02:58:11,060
been moved here yet, but are excited to move to Rochester eventually because of

1915
02:58:11,060 --> 02:58:13,520
places like this downtown.

1916
02:58:15,020 --> 02:58:16,840
Thank you for listening to these voices.

1917
02:58:17,240 --> 02:58:24,200
I'm happy to add mine to the loud chorus that asks you, please deny this

1918
02:58:24,200 --> 02:58:39,460
Thank you. Thank you. That concludes all the people that have signed up. I will ask, is there anyone else wishing to be heard on this item before the public hearing?

1919
02:58:40,520 --> 02:58:45,380
Anyone else wishing to be heard on this item?

1920
02:58:47,770 --> 02:58:54,370
Please come forward. State your name and you have up to five minutes, but you don't have to use it.

1921
02:58:54,370 --> 02:58:57,250
No worries. I'll try now. Did you already speak on this?

1922
02:58:57,550 --> 02:59:03,490
No, I was here earlier. I was talking about the public's, uh, the open speaks, that's okay. Very good.

1923
02:59:03,930 --> 02:59:09,130
Well, I'm Ryan Wolff. I am the aforementioned UMR student of this area.

1924
02:59:09,830 --> 02:59:14,370
I want to say that my time is at UMR as a student has been very fun and enriching.

1925
02:59:15,190 --> 02:59:22,110
However, the greatest sentiment that I have heard amongst UM, my fellow UMR students, has been, there is nothing to do here.

1926
02:59:22,110 --> 02:59:27,550
I have had many UMR friends who have transferred to other schools because they have found

1927
02:59:27,550 --> 02:59:28,170
no fulfillment.

1928
02:59:29,150 --> 02:59:35,490
I watched, just down the street, as a building was turned to rubble and it became the

1929
02:59:35,490 --> 02:59:39,510
laughing stock of the school because it was charmingly hidden behind the chicken wire fence

1930
02:59:39,510 --> 02:59:40,890
with fake fines.

1931
02:59:44,680 --> 02:59:50,120
I would also like to mention that the establishments at the sector, being mainly treat

1932
02:59:50,120 --> 02:59:55,740
and cafe steam or places where my classmates work at and where we have a lot of fun.

1933
02:59:56,120 --> 02:59:59,440
Many days we go to cafe steam to study and I remember the many.

1934
03:00:00,750 --> 03:00:08,150
Frustrating nights of my classmates as they tried to hammer in the concept of bone layers.

1935
03:00:09,990 --> 03:00:15,950
And then after we had our time at cafe steam, where my friends shook and threatened to throw coffee in my face as they could not get the point across,

1936
03:00:16,010 --> 03:00:21,650
we went to treat home to go have a night where we flung and laughed and worked off the previous stress.

1937
03:00:23,400 --> 03:00:27,420
I'm in my 30 year of nursing school, and I'm also currently a healthcare provider.

1938
03:00:27,940 --> 03:00:34,460
When I think about Rochester, and I think about the greatness that our health care industry is here,

1939
03:00:35,200 --> 03:00:39,820
I also think about how I want our patients to not only remember the walls of their hospital room,

1940
03:00:39,920 --> 03:00:43,500
but also the culture of this city, and the art that is a part of it.

1941
03:00:46,500 --> 03:00:50,080
And as everybody knows, there's already way too much construction in Rochester,

1942
03:00:50,380 --> 03:00:53,260
and I would like to ask why I add more now.

1943
03:00:54,060 --> 03:00:58,120
Thank you for your time, and I hope you will make the right choice again as you have three times before.

1944
03:00:58,120 --> 03:01:04,360
Thank you. This is a public hearing anyone else wishing to be heard on this item. Please step forward.

1945
03:01:04,980 --> 03:01:08,500
This is a public hearing anyone else wishing to be heard on this item.

1946
03:01:09,680 --> 03:01:09,940
Please

1947
03:01:11,320 --> 03:01:12,960
identify yourself and

1948
03:01:14,140 --> 03:01:22,680
You do a five up to five minutes. You don't have to use them. Yeah. Well, okay. I am Emily Filos. I am a community member

1949
03:01:22,680 --> 03:01:28,100
I work in many places around town in the community and all I have to say is echoing

1950
03:01:28,120 --> 03:01:35,660
everybody else is statements obviously, that block is very important. I've seen firsthand what

1951
03:01:35,660 --> 03:01:41,260
another person was describing, just dozens of teens out on the sidewalk during breaks between

1952
03:01:41,260 --> 03:01:47,720
music, enjoying in the one place that's not like age-restricted, there's no alcohol, that sort of thing.

1953
03:01:48,480 --> 03:01:53,060
And personally, sometimes, like, if having a rough day, it's middle of winter,

1954
03:01:56,200 --> 03:01:58,020
which, you know,

1955
03:01:58,020 --> 03:02:03,380
happening at tree dome is what gets me up and moving and going out when normally I wouldn't

1956
03:02:03,380 --> 03:02:10,960
be doing anything downtown. I always go to the businesses next door by someone there. It's a

1957
03:02:10,960 --> 03:02:16,960
great little block and it's one of the highlights of this city itself. Thank you. This is a public hearing

1958
03:02:16,960 --> 03:02:22,140
anyone else wishing to be heard. Step forward, please identify yourself. You'll have up to five minutes.

1959
03:02:22,480 --> 03:02:27,560
Hi, I'm Liam McCarran. I'm a newest resident here. I moved here about two years ago from Queen

1960
03:02:27,560 --> 03:02:30,940
New York, a lot busier than here, huge vibrant arts

1961
03:02:30,940 --> 03:02:34,220
and I've worked in the scene over in New York for many years.

1962
03:02:34,360 --> 03:02:36,920
I worked for both acts big and small.

1963
03:02:37,600 --> 03:02:39,920
And I saw how important it was for those communities

1964
03:02:39,920 --> 03:02:40,660
to come together.

1965
03:02:42,200 --> 03:02:44,900
And I sadly was forced to move out of the city

1966
03:02:44,900 --> 03:02:46,260
that I call it home my entire life

1967
03:02:46,260 --> 03:02:47,960
because it was just getting too expensive

1968
03:02:48,560 --> 03:02:51,080
and just on the level of both two to all these developments

1969
03:02:51,080 --> 03:02:54,240
of rent going up and just part for me to live

1970
03:02:54,240 --> 03:02:56,240
in that place I moved Rochester.

1971
03:02:57,860 --> 03:03:03,100
And as soon as I came here, whenever I tell someone right from day-to-day, I always have the same answer whenever I tell him from here.

1972
03:03:03,260 --> 03:03:10,320
They say, why? Why are you here? It's boring. There's nothing to do. There's so many other places you could be. Why do you choose here?

1973
03:03:11,200 --> 03:03:13,940
And you know, I always, you know, do the joke, oh, it's cheaper, et cetera.

1974
03:03:14,320 --> 03:03:21,840
But I really found, and this short time here, I found a really close community, and I really, I guess I've discovered the whole thing of Midwest,

1975
03:03:21,840 --> 03:03:26,260
Kindness in Minnesota nice first hand and I've seen that these communities

1976
03:03:26,260 --> 03:03:32,000
Especially in places like steam and places like TREDOM. They're kind of the only place

1977
03:03:32,000 --> 03:03:38,580
I really have a whole lot of fun here, you know, I find myself with my friends that I met here

1978
03:03:38,580 --> 03:03:43,100
and I asked them hey, is there anything going to do on most of the time we're always sending each other

1979
03:03:43,100 --> 03:03:51,820
on Instagram posts of concerts they're doing at TREDOM. We're always talking to each other about you know

1980
03:03:51,820 --> 03:03:57,880
have to talk to each other and to see that these communities are getting crushed by these developers

1981
03:03:57,880 --> 03:04:02,120
that force me not only out of my home in New York but force me out of my apartment here in

1982
03:04:02,120 --> 03:04:06,660
downtown myself because they're turning down to make more luxury apartments and these fancy

1983
03:04:06,660 --> 03:04:11,740
apartments further downtown. It's just heartbreaking to see a city that when I moved here I saw

1984
03:04:11,740 --> 03:04:17,060
I had so much opportunity and could have just, I felt like a city that was just rising or rising

1985
03:04:17,060 --> 03:04:19,440
Now, like it's crumbling, I just so quick.

1986
03:04:19,560 --> 03:04:22,140
I thought it was, you know, going to get so big.

1987
03:04:22,520 --> 03:04:24,680
So I just really want to see this place succeed

1988
03:04:24,680 --> 03:04:25,840
because it is my home.

1989
03:04:26,740 --> 03:04:29,500
And these are the places that everyone seems to agree

1990
03:04:29,500 --> 03:04:30,720
or make you want to stay.

1991
03:04:31,220 --> 03:04:33,480
And if they're gone, I don't know.

1992
03:04:33,580 --> 03:04:34,000
I don't know.

1993
03:04:34,000 --> 03:04:35,560
I don't know if there's going to be a whole lot of reasons

1994
03:04:35,560 --> 03:04:36,800
for me to stay around here.

1995
03:04:37,160 --> 03:04:38,000
Thank you for your time.

1996
03:04:38,160 --> 03:04:39,420
Thank you for stepping up.

1997
03:04:39,600 --> 03:04:43,220
This is a public hearing, and anyone else wishing to be heard,

1998
03:04:43,420 --> 03:04:45,960
please step forward, state your name,

1999
03:04:45,960 --> 03:04:47,940
and you have up to five minutes.

2000
03:04:48,620 --> 03:04:49,380
Good evening.

2001
03:04:49,920 --> 03:04:51,180
My name is Chris Kenepke.

2002
03:04:51,720 --> 03:04:53,000
I'm just a guy.

2003
03:04:53,160 --> 03:04:54,720
I'm just a person who lives in Ward 1.

2004
03:04:55,600 --> 03:04:58,420
And I just, I felt compelled to come to this meeting,

2005
03:04:58,420 --> 03:04:59,980
and I've sat out in the lobby for the last.

2006
03:05:00,000 --> 03:05:08,340
3 hours. For me, a perfect weekend day, I have two young daughters. I have an 11 and an 8-year-old. We would go to

2007
03:05:08,340 --> 03:05:15,040
library, then we'd go to Cafe Steam and I'd get a night holler to wake up, and we would go to the different

2008
03:05:15,040 --> 03:05:20,900
districts, different buildings that are being impacted by tonight's hearing. And for me, that's a perfect

2009
03:05:20,900 --> 03:05:26,860
Saturday. And I'm really going to miss that if that goes away. But what I have to comment on,

2010
03:05:26,860 --> 03:05:31,020
life-long Rochester resident and sitting out there during these last three hours is this

2011
03:05:31,660 --> 03:05:39,680
community has given me so much pride and I can't quite overstate watching the the youth just the

2012
03:05:39,680 --> 03:05:45,600
people with passion come up and talk about this and it gives me so much pride in the things that they're doing here

2013
03:05:46,300 --> 03:05:52,420
and for me it would be bad to lose that perfect Saturday but for them quite the community

2014
03:05:53,480 --> 03:06:03,500
I'm so grateful and I don't know if you were aware of this community, it was here, but I am so glad to hear them speak their support in their passion and I really appreciate that and I don't want to take any of your time.

2015
03:06:03,860 --> 03:06:04,360
Thank you.

2016
03:06:04,520 --> 03:06:05,200
Thank you.

2017
03:06:05,220 --> 03:06:06,380
This is a public hearing.

2018
03:06:06,780 --> 03:06:09,400
If you wish to be heard on this item, please step forward.

2019
03:06:10,060 --> 03:06:12,260
State your name and you have up to five minutes.

2020
03:06:12,920 --> 03:06:14,140
Hi, I'm Lucy Rasmussen.

2021
03:06:14,140 --> 03:06:22,540
And I have been a very thorough member of this community that these businesses have provided

2022
03:06:22,540 --> 03:06:23,080
for me.

2023
03:06:23,080 --> 03:06:25,300
I have learned so much about music.

2024
03:06:25,800 --> 03:06:29,500
I've discovered so much, so many new people in this community.

2025
03:06:30,900 --> 03:06:36,680
I have discovered myself, really, as who I am as a person, and to think that this would

2026
03:06:36,680 --> 03:06:43,720
all be destroyed for some bland buildings that have no meaning, no community, nothing that

2027
03:06:43,720 --> 03:06:49,080
provides anything for this community would kill me inside to see something like this be destroyed

2028
03:06:49,900 --> 03:06:52,500
for unaffordable housing for these students.

2029
03:06:53,220 --> 03:06:59,220
Yeah, I mean, I'm barely holding on as it is and to see that it would all be destroyed by

2030
03:06:59,220 --> 03:07:03,880
you know, these kids they come here to learn and at the end of the day, they come here to pay

2031
03:07:03,880 --> 03:07:04,320
for school.

2032
03:07:04,440 --> 03:07:09,120
You think they have the money to pay for expensive housing that's going to destroy something

2033
03:07:09,120 --> 03:07:13,080
that they can do in their spare time where something else can be built elsewhere.

2034
03:07:13,080 --> 03:07:16,840
I have found such a great community through these buildings.

2035
03:07:17,080 --> 03:07:19,400
I have grabbed so many refreshing drinks from steam.

2036
03:07:19,640 --> 03:07:26,360
I have found so many amazing records from Treadome and they have opened up so many opportunities

2037
03:07:26,360 --> 03:07:31,420
for you know possibilities for people who want to be in bands and form these different kinds

2038
03:07:31,420 --> 03:07:36,780
of communities and seeing this, it really hurts me and I really, I denied this.

2039
03:07:36,880 --> 03:07:38,940
I do not want this to happen, that is all I have to say.

2040
03:07:38,940 --> 03:07:45,960
Thank you. This is a public hearing. Anyone else wishing to be heard on this item? Please step forward.

2041
03:07:47,640 --> 03:07:55,920
Anyone else wishing to be heard on this item? Please step forward. One final time. Anyone else wishing to be heard on this item?

2042
03:07:56,480 --> 03:08:06,600
I will close the public hearing. At this point what we are going to do and you are all welcome to stay and I hope you all do.

2043
03:08:06,600 --> 03:08:33,880
We are going to take a 10 minute break when we get back the applicant will have five minutes to respond to the public hearing and any closing comments and then after that myself, my colleagues, the mayor will have an opportunity to post questions to staff and the applicant and after that we will deliberate on a decision.

2044
03:08:33,880 --> 03:08:37,200
So with that, we are on a 10 minute break.

2045
03:19:17,620 --> 03:19:37,140
Before we continue on item G1, I just want to let the council know that under our rules, we are not to begin a public hearing after 10, 15 this evening.

2046
03:19:37,140 --> 03:19:44,300
After G1, we have G2, G3, and G4, which are public hearing.

2047
03:19:45,860 --> 03:19:55,160
So depending on the length of the discussion on G1, we may bump ourselves up to that 10, 15 times.

2048
03:19:55,500 --> 03:19:59,980
So I am wondering if council members...

2049
03:20:00,000 --> 03:20:11,000
We just have any interest in suspending the rules, which I think you two three and four may be able to be dispensed with more rapidly.

2050
03:20:11,840 --> 03:20:29,980
If there is a desire to suspend the rules and I don't know if according to our rules, we can postpone discussion of G1 and then come back to it after dispensing with two three and four.

2051
03:20:29,980 --> 03:20:31,640
Mr. Spindler, Greg.

2052
03:20:32,080 --> 03:20:34,680
Yes, Mr. President, whether super-majority vote you could.

2053
03:20:35,140 --> 03:20:45,440
Okay, so is there interest in suspending the rules and pausing the progress that we have made on G1,

2054
03:20:45,660 --> 03:20:55,680
which is all the way through three hours of public testimony, we will go to G2, G3 and G4 so that we are able to hold those public hearings

2055
03:20:55,680 --> 03:21:03,680
before our time certain of 1015 and then we will come back to G1. Is there a motion?

2056
03:21:05,500 --> 03:21:11,100
Council member Keene. Just before a motion, is there a possibility of suspending the rules

2057
03:21:11,100 --> 03:21:16,340
and starting the public hearings after 1015? Or is that not an option for us?

2058
03:21:16,540 --> 03:21:21,940
That is an option as well. Okay. Council President, that would be my preference

2059
03:21:21,940 --> 03:21:32,100
that we continue on with our G1 work and suspend our vote now to suspend our rules to start our other public hearings later and see if we can get a supermajority there.

2060
03:21:33,840 --> 03:21:33,860
Okay.

2061
03:21:34,540 --> 03:21:36,580
Is that sound? Is that that would be my motion?

2062
03:21:36,640 --> 03:21:37,880
Is that second?

2063
03:21:39,140 --> 03:21:39,160
Okay.

2064
03:21:39,420 --> 03:21:50,060
There is a motion on the table to suspend the rule that we actually can have public hearings after 10-15,

2065
03:21:50,060 --> 03:21:56,840
made by Council Member Keen and seconded by Council Member Doring. Any further discussion on

2066
03:21:56,840 --> 03:22:02,900
favor say aye? Aye. Any opposed say nay? We are able to hold public hearings after 10

2067
03:22:02,900 --> 03:22:10,260
15. Thank you very much. We will move back to G1 and at this point we will hear from our

2068
03:22:10,260 --> 03:22:17,840
applicants and the applicant you have five minutes to respond to any questions, things you heard

2069
03:22:17,840 --> 03:22:20,760
during the public hearing and any other information

2070
03:22:20,760 --> 03:22:23,280
that you would like to share with the council.

2071
03:22:24,020 --> 03:22:27,540
Appreciate that, Council President, Council Members and Mayor.

2072
03:22:28,580 --> 03:22:32,380
One thing I know for sure after tonight is the arts

2073
03:22:33,080 --> 03:22:37,620
and the music, the culture, they're not leaving Rochester.

2074
03:22:38,580 --> 03:22:41,560
The passion that filled this room with the arts,

2075
03:22:42,080 --> 03:22:44,740
and the love for music, and the love for the downtown

2076
03:22:44,740 --> 03:22:51,560
convince me they're not leaving. And the great thing about this proposed project, we're

2077
03:22:51,560 --> 03:22:57,760
not asking them to leave. We're not destroying any buildings in the downtown district.

2078
03:22:58,420 --> 03:23:04,820
We're not proposing to destroy the downtown district. What the passion shows me is we

2079
03:23:04,820 --> 03:23:10,200
all love that place of our first kiss with our wife or our spouse or a partner. We all

2080
03:23:10,200 --> 03:23:17,420
those special places where we celebrate things. We want to keep them to ourselves. We don't

2081
03:23:17,420 --> 03:23:24,760
want others to share in that and that's what's happening. Excuse me please and no response from

2082
03:23:24,760 --> 03:23:30,760
the audience or we will have to have you removed from the audience consider. Continuums are has.

2083
03:23:31,480 --> 03:23:38,640
We're proposing to bring more people into the downtown community to provide a place homes

2084
03:23:38,640 --> 03:23:42,440
for others to come into the downtown community.

2085
03:23:43,800 --> 03:23:46,900
And that passion is so deep that they don't want that.

2086
03:23:49,190 --> 03:23:52,850
This proposal is about inclusivity and broadening

2087
03:23:53,410 --> 03:23:55,930
the rich history of Rochester,

2088
03:23:56,130 --> 03:23:59,190
in a way that preserves the historic integrity

2089
03:23:59,190 --> 03:24:03,690
of the downtown district as confirmed by the experts,

2090
03:24:04,990 --> 03:24:06,850
the city, the city development team.

2091
03:24:07,850 --> 03:24:13,990
to live with the UDC, who live with the Secretary of Interior Standards, on a daily basis.

2092
03:24:15,090 --> 03:24:18,490
You've heard people come up here and say that the standards aren't met.

2093
03:24:20,230 --> 03:24:29,030
The HPC concluded only that they're not being met with the proposed project.

2094
03:24:29,450 --> 03:24:31,710
They provided no factual support.

2095
03:24:33,510 --> 03:24:36,270
I know the city, somebody said it was a staffing issue.

2096
03:24:36,270 --> 03:24:45,110
it's not. The city requested the HPC to provide findings of fact, verbally requested that and

2097
03:24:45,110 --> 03:24:46,270
they didn't do it.

2098
03:24:48,600 --> 03:24:55,360
The only information in the record that is of any substance factual findings

2099
03:24:55,360 --> 03:24:59,220
comes from the city. Your experts, your development team.

2100
03:25:00,000 --> 03:25:05,540
On this new revised proposed projects, satisfies all ten standards.

2101
03:25:07,640 --> 03:25:11,940
It complies with what the city asked, the

2102
03:25:11,940 --> 03:25:19,740
HCT team to do, and they did that over months of meetings, over months of communications.

2103
03:25:31,050 --> 03:25:32,110
To

2104
03:25:32,110 --> 03:25:40,010
PC's denial based on standards. This is a standards-based analysis. I can stand up here

2105
03:25:40,010 --> 03:25:45,750
and be emotional and compassionate about the community that I have found in Rochester.

2106
03:25:47,550 --> 03:25:52,870
But what I have to say, what I feel is not part of the standards-based analysis

2107
03:25:53,470 --> 03:26:01,210
that you have to consider. Your experts, the city, did that analysis through all

2108
03:26:01,210 --> 03:26:07,650
of them. We addressed it in our comprehensive appellate brief and appeal documents.

2109
03:26:11,140 --> 03:26:14,820
The record from the HPC provides

2110
03:26:14,820 --> 03:26:23,040
no factual support for denying the request for a certificate of appropriateness. It actually

2111
03:26:23,040 --> 03:26:30,720
contravenes the recommendation of the experts in the room. Those experts have now come due and said,

2112
03:26:30,720 --> 03:26:46,980
We request for action that you overturn the HPC's denial and they provided reasons under all 10 of those standards that show that this new proposed project complies with every one of those standards.

2113
03:26:48,640 --> 03:26:52,640
Old buildings bring challenges.

2114
03:26:53,940 --> 03:26:59,240
The rents that people pay or below market, it only even cover the property taxes for the buildings.

2115
03:27:00,550 --> 03:27:10,170
Please, please keep your thoughts here, self-continuous cash has old buildings, bring challenges.

2116
03:27:11,390 --> 03:27:16,010
Different types of shops come in, we're already seeing it on Broadway, THC being sold in shops,

2117
03:27:16,210 --> 03:27:19,070
but don't only stores on Broadway.

2118
03:27:20,010 --> 03:27:26,790
They bring an element that does not bring character to a historical district.

2119
03:27:27,490 --> 03:27:34,410
But we're offering is an opportunity to continue the historic nature of downtown Rochester

2120
03:27:34,410 --> 03:27:40,350
while also growing downtown Rochester, making it more inclusive to more people that can

2121
03:27:40,350 --> 03:27:45,390
take advantage of the rich, history, and culture, the arts, and the music, and the shops

2122
03:27:45,390 --> 03:27:45,990
downtown.

2123
03:27:46,570 --> 03:27:49,730
And we ask you to overturn the HPC's denial.

2124
03:27:50,090 --> 03:27:51,230
Thank you, Mr. Hess.

2125
03:27:52,530 --> 03:28:03,110
At this time, I will invite my colleagues to ask questions of staff and, or the applicant, Council Member Key.

2126
03:28:03,590 --> 03:28:07,910
Yeah, I had a question for staff just going through this much of the public input.

2127
03:28:08,250 --> 03:28:14,650
Our item is about an impact to local small businesses in the space that has become the anchor for these local arts communities.

2128
03:28:15,590 --> 03:28:20,370
What are the decision criteria that one through ten that have anything to do with the business

2129
03:28:20,370 --> 03:28:25,890
that is currently operate within the space, the historic building that is being under

2130
03:28:25,890 --> 03:28:27,710
question for the certificate?

2131
03:28:29,070 --> 03:28:32,130
I'm thinking this one, I'm going to support where it goes ahead.

2132
03:28:32,630 --> 03:28:34,610
Then thank you, Council Member Keen.

2133
03:28:35,870 --> 03:28:40,290
The certificate of appropriateness deals with the alteration that is being proposed to the

2134
03:28:40,290 --> 03:28:44,150
building, it doesn't have anything to do with the existing businesses within the building.

2135
03:28:44,730 --> 03:28:49,830
So it's evaluating how the alterations to the exterior are the additions, how that has

2136
03:28:49,830 --> 03:28:53,730
an impact on the overall structures and the buildings, not necessarily on what the existing

2137
03:28:53,730 --> 03:28:54,850
businesses are.

2138
03:28:55,470 --> 03:29:01,150
Okay, do you consider that to be like a rigorous sort of thing or is it a flawed in the criteria

2139
03:29:01,150 --> 03:29:04,790
we're using that we don't consider what's happening in the building right now?

2140
03:29:05,610 --> 03:29:10,050
The rehabilitation standards don't really consider that and that along with the design

2141
03:29:10,050 --> 03:29:14,190
guidelines and really focus on what is the design of the building and what are those elements

2142
03:29:14,190 --> 03:29:19,870
that need to be considered in terms of the overall additions, alterations and things that are

2143
03:29:19,870 --> 03:29:23,410
happening with those buildings and those are the primary of what we're evaluating as part of

2144
03:29:23,410 --> 03:29:28,750
this certificate of appropriateness. Okay, thank you. And then I also had a question for the owner

2145
03:29:28,750 --> 03:29:35,250
owner representation just comparing this project to pod projects we've seen before and turned down.

2146
03:29:35,250 --> 03:29:40,250
It appears to me that this new product is better protects the historic streets streetscape

2147
03:29:41,170 --> 03:29:47,170
But I also want to confirm is it and it does these stepbacks, but I also am trying to understand

2148
03:29:47,170 --> 03:29:54,170
Can I assume that this project is economically viable and then this is a way now that the building is maintains historic preservation

2149
03:29:54,170 --> 03:29:59,970
But it's also maintained. Yes, just okay. All right, so good

2150
03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:15,000
Good, good, I'm glad to hear that because I will be surprised then if this group comes back in the next year to saying we need public support for something because if it's economically viable, you should be able to handle it yourself and not depend on public support for that.

2151
03:30:15,000 --> 03:30:22,140
I mean, certainly as we go forward, certainly if there's public funds that are available to anybody else that would also be available to us,

2152
03:30:22,220 --> 03:30:25,440
we should consider it, but it doesn't mean that we have to pursue it.

2153
03:30:25,620 --> 03:30:32,280
But I wouldn't want to be locked in right now to say that we're not allowed to apply for public funds that are available to any other develop.

2154
03:30:32,440 --> 03:30:38,020
No, good point, but I'm trying to establish that this is an economically viable project.

2155
03:30:38,400 --> 03:30:40,060
You wouldn't come in here with a test that said,

2156
03:30:40,060 --> 03:30:47,380
But for some support that the city or DMC would give you, we can't do this because you're coming in with an economically viable project.

2157
03:30:48,040 --> 03:30:54,280
Well, we like to think so, but part of the economics is sort of tiff funding or other public funding that may be available.

2158
03:30:54,440 --> 03:30:56,020
I'm not saying we're asking for that right now.

2159
03:30:56,240 --> 03:31:03,820
I know you're not sure, but I'm just trying to get it on there that when we when we deal with this and try to say you need to come back with something that both

2160
03:31:03,820 --> 03:31:10,100
preserves the history of the building but is also economically viable. I think that says that

2161
03:31:10,100 --> 03:31:13,940
we're not coming that further. Now we're new and you've talked about DMC's got these

2162
03:31:13,940 --> 03:31:19,300
grants and stuff. That's fine. Yeah. Okay. So if there's a facade grant and we're working on the

2163
03:31:19,300 --> 03:31:24,480
facade, we're not saying, no, we shouldn't be able to apply for that. No, no, but I but this idea of going

2164
03:31:24,480 --> 03:31:28,640
through and coming back with the butt foretests going. We want to do this, but you guys have to come to

2165
03:31:28,640 --> 03:31:33,800
the table. That's not what I'm seeing what you're coming back with at that time. Thank you.

2166
03:31:33,800 --> 03:31:35,360
you're correct. Okay.

2167
03:31:37,880 --> 03:31:42,940
Questions from council members? I have a question at to, well first to the

2168
03:31:42,940 --> 03:31:49,000
owner group and Mr. Henderson you may want to answer this as well. And this has to do with,

2169
03:31:49,280 --> 03:31:59,300
see, you're the owners of 309 to 317 Broadway, which are contributing properties to the downtown

2170
03:31:59,300 --> 03:32:09,160
commercial historic district. So can you talk to us about how your proposed alterations contribute

2171
03:32:09,160 --> 03:32:18,660
to the historic district that the building is in? And when I say how it contributes to the

2172
03:32:18,660 --> 03:32:27,020
historic district, looking at the objectives of the historic district and its activation of

2173
03:32:27,020 --> 03:32:34,440
in France, public realm, character all of those pieces of what it means to be in a historic

2174
03:32:34,440 --> 03:32:35,060
district.

2175
03:32:37,000 --> 03:32:40,360
I want to have a friend who's bringing in members of the council and I'm a mayor in

2176
03:32:40,360 --> 03:32:40,840
order.

2177
03:32:41,000 --> 03:32:45,500
Thanks to the opportunity tonight and appreciating you listening to us as a revival period.

2178
03:32:46,220 --> 03:32:49,240
There's a lot of information offered tonight that is not true.

2179
03:32:49,660 --> 03:32:52,740
I won't go into that, but I wish I could if we had time.

2180
03:32:53,600 --> 03:32:58,320
So, to answer your question, I think if you look at the image on the screen, essentially

2181
03:32:58,320 --> 03:33:00,020
it's exactly what's there now.

2182
03:33:01,000 --> 03:33:06,580
And by development that allows us some economic vitality at work with, it allows us

2183
03:33:06,580 --> 03:33:09,760
to bring those buildings back to the original radiator and character.

2184
03:33:10,460 --> 03:33:15,280
Without it, they're not going to get what the HPC was hoping to get in terms of the character

2185
03:33:15,280 --> 03:33:22,060
quality, all the things that they're hoping to accomplish with the HPC, meant mantra.

2186
03:33:24,540 --> 03:33:29,980
So yeah, without giving us some financial, viable ways of generating their level of income

2187
03:33:29,980 --> 03:33:34,620
needed to maintain these properties, the property taxes, the insurance, the maintenance,

2188
03:33:35,500 --> 03:33:37,920
is just not available long-term reality.

2189
03:33:39,260 --> 03:33:44,080
It becomes a point we have to face that really, we've heard a lot of passionate conversations

2190
03:33:44,080 --> 03:33:49,820
and then I get it, I appreciate it, understand it, but I've not heard a word about the five

2191
03:33:49,820 --> 03:33:54,960
years that we've subsidized the rent at a $5 square foot rent, almost three, and then we

2192
03:33:54,960 --> 03:34:00,860
doubled it. 100% we did to 10. But I don't think there's anybody in this room that owns property,

2193
03:34:01,500 --> 03:34:06,880
that would say that $10 square foot is sustainable to operate a building and main thing

2194
03:34:06,880 --> 03:34:12,320
to the quality bill. Go ahead, this is your answer, sir. Sorry, this is not possible. I think you

2195
03:34:12,320 --> 03:34:15,940
you talk anybody that's a landlord talking to you real estate agent and that's

2196
03:34:15,940 --> 03:34:19,980
pressure property. They will tell you the market raise at least 25 dollars for

2197
03:34:19,980 --> 03:34:21,320
a quit or creator.

2198
03:34:23,400 --> 03:34:28,100
Please you are not a member of the City Council or the mayor

2199
03:34:28,100 --> 03:34:33,760
and so you do not have the right to speak right now. So please if you would keep

2200
03:34:33,760 --> 03:34:38,720
your thoughts to yourself, Mr. Henderson continue. Appreciate it. Thank you. That's all

2201
03:34:38,720 --> 03:34:39,960
Thank you.

2202
03:34:40,040 --> 03:34:40,520
A lot of politicians.

2203
03:34:40,920 --> 03:34:41,860
I have no more to say.

2204
03:34:42,120 --> 03:34:42,340
You can.

2205
03:34:42,580 --> 03:34:42,840
You can.

2206
03:34:43,440 --> 03:34:44,020
I appreciate it.

2207
03:34:44,220 --> 03:34:44,480
Thanks again.

2208
03:34:44,560 --> 03:34:45,960
I have a question for staff.

2209
03:34:46,480 --> 03:34:53,860
So, and I want to talk about, and I think it's, measure nine, and it's the whole idea

2210
03:34:55,620 --> 03:34:59,960
of new alterations being subordinate in.

2211
03:35:00,000 --> 03:35:11,320
Size, scale, material, massing, to the historic building and to the historic district itself, I believe.

2212
03:35:12,040 --> 03:35:26,360
So, I'm just trying to get my head around how a seven-story building, which is, I think, four or five stories higher than any of the contributing buildings,

2213
03:35:26,360 --> 03:35:31,740
with, among the 31 buildings that are contributing buildings in the historic district,

2214
03:35:32,560 --> 03:35:42,020
how that building is subordinate to the historic district or the historically,

2215
03:35:42,020 --> 03:35:44,820
the historic contributing building.

2216
03:35:45,980 --> 03:35:51,080
Thank you for the question. I will start and provide a little bit of context as we

2217
03:35:51,080 --> 03:35:55,760
establish the commercial historic district. It is the collection of all of the buildings together

2218
03:35:55,760 --> 03:36:01,100
is how it's evaluated. It's not one individual building. So as we started to evaluate the addition

2219
03:36:01,100 --> 03:36:07,280
being put, we are evaluating how that contributes or how it aligns with the massating of the

2220
03:36:07,280 --> 03:36:11,760
overall district and evaluating it. So it wasn't just looking at the existing properties, but

2221
03:36:11,760 --> 03:36:16,640
the overall district. And so we were looking at, as we mentioned, some other buildings within the

2222
03:36:16,640 --> 03:36:22,580
district and how it happened impact overall, not just on one specific, but on the entire historic district.

2223
03:36:23,900 --> 03:36:43,460
My understanding is though that the building you're using as the to say that it this proposal is subordinate to is a non-contributing building and it is the tallest building in the district and it is non-contributing.

2224
03:36:43,460 --> 03:36:46,740
Why isn't it

2225
03:36:46,740 --> 03:36:46,980
it

2226
03:36:46,980 --> 03:36:53,220
used in relation to the building that it is becoming an alteration to?

2227
03:36:53,860 --> 03:37:00,060
As we started to evaluate, and then I'll let Ms. Patterson Lunger and jump in if she needs to add additional context.

2228
03:37:00,320 --> 03:37:01,600
We're looking at how

2229
03:37:01,600 --> 03:37:06,680
ultimately as we're looking at this addition to the building, it really starts to mimic

2230
03:37:06,680 --> 03:37:11,260
three 18 commons and it starts to look like an addition to that building within the historic district

2231
03:37:11,260 --> 03:37:33,320
And that it is set back from the facades of the buildings that are facing Broadway, and so that you're still maintaining that perspective when you're on Broadway and maintaining it within the historic district, but then able to have the addition in the rear and be able to kind of tie those together. And I'll let Ms. Patterson Lunger and also add to it.

2232
03:37:33,320 --> 03:37:59,380
Chair Schubering, I think your question, if I'm understanding correctly, relates to standard number nine, and that the size scale and pulling just the last part of that standard, and proportion and massing to protect the integrity of the property and its environment, so the way I read that is the property is the landmark property, which is the historic district.

2233
03:37:59,380 --> 03:38:04,560
The landmark property are not the individual buildings. They're contributing to the district,

2234
03:38:04,660 --> 03:38:08,280
but when we're talking about protecting the integrity of the property,

2235
03:38:08,820 --> 03:38:13,200
I read that as the property that is landmarked, which is the district and its entirety.

2236
03:38:13,580 --> 03:38:17,620
So we're looking at how the features, the materials,

2237
03:38:18,220 --> 03:38:22,640
features scale and proportion and massing impact the property,

2238
03:38:22,940 --> 03:38:26,380
which is the district as a whole, which we've landmarked.

2239
03:38:26,380 --> 03:38:38,200
Do that answer? Well, let me pose a hypothetical. And can you go to slide 31 in the deck

2240
03:38:38,200 --> 03:38:49,480
here? So I have a hypothetical, if we are to approve this appeal, and I'm looking at

2241
03:38:49,480 --> 03:38:55,960
the integrity of the historic district itself, and one of the pieces that I'm really concerned

2242
03:38:55,960 --> 03:38:59,840
with is precedent and how we are sending a precedent.

2243
03:39:00,240 --> 03:39:09,920
So on slide 21, 31 we have a view of the non-contributing parking lot that is on the corner

2244
03:39:09,920 --> 03:39:12,560
of Broadway and for Street, correct?

2245
03:39:14,000 --> 03:39:19,980
That is part of the historic district, it is a parking lot right now, it's not contributing,

2246
03:39:19,980 --> 03:39:30,360
it is adjacent to the three 18 building, which is across the alley. So if we are to then

2247
03:39:31,640 --> 03:39:44,060
have a seven story building that we say is not it is subordinate to other buildings.

2248
03:39:44,680 --> 03:39:59,980
A, and I don't even know who owns that property, but let's say developer owner comes in and says I want to build a seven story building there on that corner, which is the first block of the historic district going

2249
03:40:00,000 --> 03:40:10,060
Set a precedent to allow other blocks non-contributing or contributing to then scale up to seven

2250
03:40:10,060 --> 03:40:19,740
stories, eight stories or whatever we consider, whatever's considered subordinate to another building.

2251
03:40:19,740 --> 03:40:29,780
Sure, I think we would have set the precedent to review the project within the context of what's what's adjacent to it.

2252
03:40:29,920 --> 03:40:34,720
What's adjacent to that empty lot is a two story building on Broadway.

2253
03:40:35,420 --> 03:40:42,200
And I think a three or four story building, which is the Francis apartment to the west.

2254
03:40:43,620 --> 03:40:48,100
And then the hue is right there, and that also is taller.

2255
03:40:48,860 --> 03:40:56,760
So we would be looking at how a new building in that site would relate to, um, to

2256
03:40:56,760 --> 03:41:00,420
its environment, um, within the historic district.

2257
03:41:01,920 --> 03:41:09,140
So not necessarily a seven story building, because there isn't, um, what, eight to 10 story

2258
03:41:09,140 --> 03:41:10,460
building right next to it.

2259
03:41:10,460 --> 03:41:14,860
I mean, please bear with me, my colleagues.

2260
03:41:15,100 --> 03:41:17,760
I'm going to ask maybe even more immediate one.

2261
03:41:18,220 --> 03:41:24,980
So if we were to continue with this and approve this appeal,

2262
03:41:25,580 --> 03:41:34,480
and the seven-story building goes up on the rear of 309-37317,

2263
03:41:34,480 --> 03:41:47,460
What prevents that 7th story building from being the support, then the owner of the building to say?

2264
03:41:47,680 --> 03:41:58,120
Well, I want to go further forward and the 7th story building is what I'm using as a guide.

2265
03:41:58,880 --> 03:42:04,540
I would just note that any new, if there was a new project coming in for that corner lot,

2266
03:42:04,700 --> 03:42:07,960
that would also require a certificate of appropriateness and would have to go through

2267
03:42:07,960 --> 03:42:13,840
and we would evaluate what that proposal is against those design standards that have been

2268
03:42:13,840 --> 03:42:19,880
Council adopted as well as the Secretary of Interior Standards and evaluate those things to determine

2269
03:42:19,880 --> 03:42:25,500
as to what Molly is saying, what is that general look of what's happening around there.

2270
03:42:25,500 --> 03:42:29,780
So it's, it's, we're not, it doesn't necessarily mean the next one would need to be that.

2271
03:42:29,800 --> 03:42:34,260
So the certificate of appropriateness would need to be reviewed by a city teammates at that time,

2272
03:42:34,280 --> 03:42:36,800
and then it would go to the Heritage Preservation Commission as well.

2273
03:42:38,540 --> 03:42:41,280
Council members, other questions I can keep going.

2274
03:42:41,680 --> 03:42:53,020
Can I ask a question on their husband talk among the applicant that the HPC did not address findings?

2275
03:42:53,020 --> 03:42:55,420
Can you clarify that?

2276
03:42:57,750 --> 03:43:02,910
The H, I think what the clarification and I would just note is the motion that was made by the

2277
03:43:02,910 --> 03:43:12,450
HPC was specific and identifying the building and the project didn't meet 1, 2, 5, 6, 9, and 10.

2278
03:43:12,970 --> 03:43:17,570
There was additional discussion at the HPC, the Heritage Preservation Commission, but in terms

2279
03:43:17,570 --> 03:43:21,530
of the motion that was taken, those were the specific ones that were identified during that.

2280
03:43:21,530 --> 03:43:25,710
But there was discussion about generally about the historic character

2281
03:43:25,710 --> 03:43:29,450
the property will be retained, will be retained.

2282
03:43:29,890 --> 03:43:32,870
The project would detract and doesn't preserve the sense of history.

2283
03:43:34,330 --> 03:43:35,990
These are home to marginalized businesses,

2284
03:43:36,610 --> 03:43:38,690
loss of sight of caler, sight, and plumber building.

2285
03:43:39,210 --> 03:43:40,770
Seven stories is too big.

2286
03:43:41,290 --> 03:43:42,190
And there were several other.

2287
03:43:42,190 --> 03:43:44,070
But that was summary of discussion that was

2288
03:43:44,070 --> 03:43:46,030
had at the Heritage Preservation Commission,

2289
03:43:46,630 --> 03:43:50,030
the actual motion that was taken only reference those numbers.

2290
03:43:51,980 --> 03:43:52,580
Okay,

2291
03:43:55,330 --> 03:43:56,270
council member Palmer.

2292
03:43:59,290 --> 03:44:03,290
So how long has the staff in working on this proposal with the applicant?

2293
03:44:07,100 --> 03:44:13,240
I, after the last request which was to remove the properties from the historic district,

2294
03:44:13,460 --> 03:44:14,840
there's been on and off conversations.

2295
03:44:14,840 --> 03:44:18,440
I would say, since that time period there haven't necessarily been consistent.

2296
03:44:18,720 --> 03:44:23,500
There's been questions asked of us review and we've met with them on occasion.

2297
03:44:23,540 --> 03:44:26,640
I can't say how many, but it's probably been going on.

2298
03:44:27,240 --> 03:44:31,340
since after that last time where there was a request to move in from the historic district.

2299
03:44:32,160 --> 03:44:40,360
In the recommendation from the staff is that we approve their or overturn the HBC's recommendation.

2300
03:44:40,580 --> 03:44:41,020
Is that correct?

2301
03:44:41,120 --> 03:44:53,260
The recommendation that staff made to the Heritage Preservation Commission was to approve the certificate of appropriateness and the motion and our recommendation would to be overturned the Heritage Preservation Commission.

2302
03:44:53,260 --> 03:44:56,000
So if I go to the next block over and oh

2303
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:05,520
And we've got the Bible Business Center. I think that's nine stories. How does that fit into the historic district?

2304
03:45:07,490 --> 03:45:10,450
So, the Bible Business Center is not within the historic district.

2305
03:45:10,610 --> 03:45:11,910
Okay. Is the parking ramp?

2306
03:45:12,550 --> 03:45:13,510
It is not.

2307
03:45:13,770 --> 03:45:14,110
Okay.

2308
03:45:15,050 --> 03:45:18,590
Is the hotel that's just to the north of this part of the district?

2309
03:45:20,170 --> 03:45:20,610
No.

2310
03:45:21,210 --> 03:45:25,050
So, the district kind of moves around a little bit. It doesn't like a solid block.

2311
03:45:25,050 --> 03:45:30,790
It does move, there is a, I think we've shown that kind of district a number of times.

2312
03:45:31,090 --> 03:45:37,050
So it, it, it kind of goes along there and it shifts in terms of what is contributing a non-contributing properties within the historic district.

2313
03:45:37,910 --> 03:45:39,150
Can I ask a question on the developer?

2314
03:45:39,730 --> 03:45:40,070
Go ahead.

2315
03:45:41,370 --> 03:45:42,270
Um, support work.

2316
03:45:42,590 --> 03:45:43,270
Mr. Hayes.

2317
03:45:43,510 --> 03:45:48,950
Our question is, is, last time, if you wanted to take the whole building down, you didn't want to do that.

2318
03:45:49,010 --> 03:45:51,510
And it was a lot of million dollars just to keep the facade.

2319
03:45:51,510 --> 03:45:56,510
I'm assuming there's an added cost to just working in the back of this building and the

2320
03:45:56,510 --> 03:46:00,910
alley is there added cost to that or would it be just cheaper to throw the whole building

2321
03:46:00,910 --> 03:46:02,630
down and just start from scratch.

2322
03:46:02,670 --> 03:46:06,950
It's probably less expensive to get closer to the micro from its natural

2323
03:46:06,950 --> 03:46:07,490
presence.

2324
03:46:07,670 --> 03:46:14,910
Yeah, it would be less expensive to tear the building down but there are an added cost related

2325
03:46:14,910 --> 03:46:21,250
to the project in keeping the culture of the alley and trying to enhance the alley and do

2326
03:46:21,250 --> 03:46:26,790
things that Helen Grant have already started in the alley. And you're adding 35 apartments

2327
03:46:26,790 --> 03:46:33,890
roughly 37, I think, does he did downtown? Yes. Okay. Mayor Norton?

2328
03:46:36,860 --> 03:46:38,480
Yeah, this has been an

2329
03:46:38,480 --> 03:46:44,940
interesting process. And I guess, I've been talking to some former city council members, I would

2330
03:46:44,940 --> 03:46:52,840
say throughout this process. Mr. Henderson has been asked to keep coming back with something else

2331
03:46:52,840 --> 03:46:55,220
that preserves the historic integrity.

2332
03:46:55,900 --> 03:46:59,520
And this is closer to what the council had been asking for.

2333
03:46:59,720 --> 03:47:03,260
So I want to acknowledge that you have heard what they have said

2334
03:47:03,260 --> 03:47:07,680
over time and have made changes every time.

2335
03:47:07,700 --> 03:47:09,260
And you have brought something different

2336
03:47:09,260 --> 03:47:10,280
forward this time.

2337
03:47:10,320 --> 03:47:11,940
So I want to acknowledge that.

2338
03:47:12,460 --> 03:47:17,040
I do, I think the question probably ties a little bit

2339
03:47:17,040 --> 03:47:21,040
onto, I think, what Council Member Palmer was getting at.

2340
03:47:21,040 --> 03:47:27,780
but I want to ask it very specifically. A person buys a building or a set of buildings and they

2341
03:47:27,780 --> 03:47:33,680
own them. It's their property. They can rent, they can leave the map to, they can do whatever they want.

2342
03:47:33,980 --> 03:47:37,800
And we have some wonderful businesses that have been allowed to be there.

2343
03:47:39,020 --> 03:47:44,060
Does, and I don't know if this is for probably for staff, but does a building owner

2344
03:47:44,060 --> 03:47:52,680
that happens to have the building or buildings that are then designated as a historic.

2345
03:47:53,800 --> 03:47:58,860
Do they have the right to remove those buildings completely from a block?

2346
03:48:03,710 --> 03:48:08,510
We do have a process in place if you are trying to submit for a demolition permit,

2347
03:48:08,650 --> 03:48:13,530
then you would be required to remove the property from the historic district,

2348
03:48:13,530 --> 03:48:16,750
and show that it is no longer contributing to the historic district.

2349
03:48:21,640 --> 03:48:25,140
That's not exactly getting to the to the answer.

2350
03:48:25,820 --> 03:48:30,940
If someone owns property and they don't want it anymore and they own it and it's theirs.

2351
03:48:31,680 --> 03:48:40,540
Does our designation as a historic district mean they no longer have control over what they do with their buildings and their property?

2352
03:48:42,400 --> 03:48:47,780
No, within the historic district there are ways that we go about this process of making changes to it.

2353
03:48:47,940 --> 03:48:50,300
So they still have the ability to make changes.

2354
03:48:50,860 --> 03:48:54,140
Interior changes aren't reviewed by the Heritage Preservation Commission.

2355
03:48:54,780 --> 03:48:58,700
It's only exterior in terms of additions or things that are happening.

2356
03:48:58,880 --> 03:48:59,900
So there is a process.

2357
03:49:00,380 --> 03:49:03,280
And does that process include removal of buildings?

2358
03:49:06,460 --> 03:49:10,820
The process to remove a building would be that someone was submitting for a demolition

2359
03:49:10,820 --> 03:49:12,960
and they would need to remove it from request removal

2360
03:49:12,960 --> 03:49:14,280
from the historic district.

2361
03:49:14,660 --> 03:49:19,740
And does the city or the HPC have the right to tell someone

2362
03:49:19,740 --> 03:49:22,680
who owns property that they cannot get rid of that property?

2363
03:49:24,750 --> 03:49:26,210
That property could be sold.

2364
03:49:26,550 --> 03:49:29,090
So it doesn't mean that that property owner has to maintain that.

2365
03:49:29,110 --> 03:49:30,150
They could sell the property.

2366
03:49:30,390 --> 03:49:32,230
It would still be within the historic district

2367
03:49:32,230 --> 03:49:37,310
because the historic district is an overlay zone within our UDC.

2368
03:49:38,890 --> 03:49:46,590
So, what I'm trying to get out is that if a person owns property and they decide they don't want that property, they want something else,

2369
03:49:46,950 --> 03:49:53,450
we have a process to go through to modify that property to make it appropriate for the historic district we've designated.

2370
03:49:54,390 --> 03:49:55,330
That is correct.

2371
03:49:58,080 --> 03:49:59,980
I guess I'm trying to get out.

2372
03:50:00,000 --> 03:50:29,540
Do they have the right to just get rid of the building demolish it because they're not so, so my council member is saying a bit business owner really doesn't own that building and have the right to decide what to do with it because the HPC won't let them, I mean I'm trying to really understand that because I don't want to put it in a position where buildings will be demolished because we're not allowed them to be modified.

2373
03:50:29,540 --> 03:50:36,360
So I'm trying to get at, do they have the right to remove their buildings, because they don't want them, they want them to be something else,

2374
03:50:36,740 --> 03:50:41,300
or have we just allowed an owner from a building to control his building?

2375
03:50:43,240 --> 03:50:46,040
So I think I understand what you're trying to get at.

2376
03:50:46,040 --> 03:50:51,240
And I think that's where within the Unified Development Code, within the Heritage Preservation Overlay,

2377
03:50:51,420 --> 03:50:56,120
there is identified in terms of if you wanted to be removed from his historic district,

2378
03:50:56,120 --> 03:50:59,440
If you wanted to demolish it, there's a process to identify that.

2379
03:50:59,640 --> 03:51:03,800
There's a process if you want to make an alteration to your building, and that doesn't

2380
03:51:03,800 --> 03:51:08,740
prevent anyone from selling their building to somebody else or utilizing it within the

2381
03:51:08,740 --> 03:51:09,820
interior in a different way.

2382
03:51:10,140 --> 03:51:15,640
But in terms of removing it or demolishing the entire structure that is a contributing building

2383
03:51:15,640 --> 03:51:20,200
and identified within the historic district, that is a process that you'd have to go to

2384
03:51:20,200 --> 03:51:25,640
to remove it from, and that comes before the city council to remove it from the historic

2385
03:51:25,640 --> 03:51:28,000
district and have that approval.

2386
03:51:28,180 --> 03:51:37,220
Just to clarify so we know that this council in January of 24 designated a historic

2387
03:51:37,220 --> 03:51:47,100
district that includes 31 buildings and in that that ordinance, the council said with

2388
03:51:47,100 --> 03:51:53,200
these 31 buildings, if you want to alter that building or you want to demolish it, there

2389
03:51:53,200 --> 03:51:59,100
process, it starts at HPC, it comes here to this city council, and that's what we're doing this evening.

2390
03:51:59,780 --> 03:52:07,980
So anytime any one of those 31 buildings want to make an alteration or they want to put

2391
03:52:07,980 --> 03:52:13,360
something else there, it has to come to our council. Yes, that's what I was trying to clarify,

2392
03:52:13,700 --> 03:52:19,640
that there is a process for removal as well, but that ultimately, these people on that

2393
03:52:19,640 --> 03:52:27,840
that property. The city does not own the property. They do. And so ultimately they have some choices to make.

2394
03:52:28,040 --> 03:52:39,670
So I just wanted to make that point and I guess the Mr. Henderson or has anyone ever made an offer to purchase your property?

2395
03:52:41,570 --> 03:52:43,290
Please come to the microphone, Mr.

2396
03:52:43,630 --> 03:52:43,830
Sorry.

2397
03:52:44,890 --> 03:52:45,730
If you're going to answer.

2398
03:52:48,350 --> 03:52:49,010
The answer is no.

2399
03:52:49,610 --> 03:52:50,490
If not.

2400
03:52:51,570 --> 03:52:54,690
And no one in the room in the book tonight has approached us.

2401
03:52:54,950 --> 03:52:57,250
If something were to buy it, they would obviously have more control

2402
03:52:57,250 --> 03:52:58,050
over the future.

2403
03:52:58,750 --> 03:53:01,170
As a tenant, they don't have that level of control.

2404
03:53:02,410 --> 03:53:04,410
And therefore, we have to generate enough income,

2405
03:53:04,630 --> 03:53:07,110
to make these property viable, maintain and pay the tax,

2406
03:53:07,230 --> 03:53:09,110
to pay the insurance, pay the maintenance, let's go on.

2407
03:53:10,530 --> 03:53:15,270
So, yeah. I mean, if they wanted to buy them, they should approach us. We're more and

2408
03:53:15,270 --> 03:53:18,130
happy to do that. City wants to buy them. You should approach this.

2409
03:53:18,310 --> 03:53:20,230
Okay. Thank you. I just wanted that on the record.

2410
03:53:20,530 --> 03:53:22,130
Yeah. Okay. Thank you. And I was just to clarify.

2411
03:53:22,490 --> 03:53:26,390
Our first proposal was to remove the buildings to demolish them.

2412
03:53:26,390 --> 03:53:29,010
And that was denied. So that I think answers your question.

2413
03:53:29,130 --> 03:53:30,130
It's been tested before.

2414
03:53:30,370 --> 03:53:33,070
Okay. And that was one of our requests early on. Thanks.

2415
03:53:33,070 --> 03:53:34,330
Thank you.

2416
03:53:34,630 --> 03:53:35,450
Council Member Wall.

2417
03:53:36,350 --> 03:53:40,210
Mr. Henderson, I hate to have you come back up again, but please,

2418
03:53:43,700 --> 03:53:56,300
I really appreciate the passion of so many of the speakers here tonight, and I think there's an assumption on the part of many of those speakers that the current businesses will simply be displaced permanently. Is that part of the proposal?

2419
03:53:56,780 --> 03:53:58,800
It was one thing I was referring to, there's not true.

2420
03:54:00,200 --> 03:54:03,120
They certainly would be displaced during a time of construction.

2421
03:54:03,940 --> 03:54:05,600
Our goal is not to do that.

2422
03:54:05,720 --> 03:54:10,920
Seeing coffee would stay, the businesses other than the treatle would have to be replaced somewhere

2423
03:54:10,920 --> 03:54:11,900
and possibly come back.

2424
03:54:12,400 --> 03:54:15,420
But again, they'd have to be well, they'd be able to pay the rent and willing to pay the rent.

2425
03:54:16,420 --> 03:54:17,900
That's the be the question.

2426
03:54:18,700 --> 03:54:20,140
Can their business tolerates that?

2427
03:54:20,200 --> 03:54:22,940
Do they generate enough for the business to tolerate or rent to that level?

2428
03:54:23,720 --> 03:54:25,400
And that's what I mentioned is a reality check.

2429
03:54:25,820 --> 03:54:31,120
And your business has to be able to produce enough income to rent a space that you want to be in.

2430
03:54:33,360 --> 03:54:40,180
That is probably where some of my next questions were going to go, however, I thought maybe

2431
03:54:40,960 --> 03:54:50,140
when you talked about an economically viable project, you could use the towers to help

2432
03:54:50,140 --> 03:54:56,260
subsidize some of the costs of the street level, not really.

2433
03:54:56,920 --> 03:54:59,960
Well, yeah, to a point, yes, we can't get...

2434
03:55:00,000 --> 03:55:06,960
We continue to maintain those buildings long-term without something that allows us enough economic generation to do that.

2435
03:55:07,200 --> 03:55:14,500
So, they'll just maintain that a certain level that the income that we generate could support, which currently it doesn't.

2436
03:55:15,180 --> 03:55:20,220
Yeah. So, you would see the rent going from 5 to 10 to 25.

2437
03:55:21,260 --> 03:55:22,280
I would have to.

2438
03:55:23,260 --> 03:55:26,600
I'm just telling you the truth. And you ask anybody that's renting space downtown.

2439
03:55:26,600 --> 03:55:33,700
You look at what the discovery one of two buildings are renting for, you know, they're a lot more than that.

2440
03:55:35,240 --> 03:55:42,720
And I could give you a list of brand new or the bacon space that's on the Merchier change building that the Mazda building property was in.

2441
03:55:43,360 --> 03:55:49,160
Their business was in. It is now being listed at 32 dollars a square foot, just a half a block away.

2442
03:55:49,760 --> 03:55:54,080
So it gives you a sense of what the difference is and what we're getting and what the real market is.

2443
03:55:54,080 --> 03:55:57,340
So, I mean, even if we were to get $25 square foot,

2444
03:55:57,640 --> 03:56:00,680
I'm not convinced that it even covers the expenses

2445
03:56:00,680 --> 03:56:02,640
and all the cost of real estate taxes

2446
03:56:02,640 --> 03:56:03,360
that are doing a meal.

2447
03:56:03,720 --> 03:56:05,500
With the buildings as they currently are.

2448
03:56:05,660 --> 03:56:06,160
Well, they're not.

2449
03:56:06,340 --> 03:56:06,480
Right.

2450
03:56:07,820 --> 03:56:10,660
And that's actually a lot of the motivation for doing this.

2451
03:56:10,780 --> 03:56:11,500
And it's not just that.

2452
03:56:11,560 --> 03:56:12,500
It's going to be other people again,

2453
03:56:12,560 --> 03:56:13,820
and the same issues we're having.

2454
03:56:14,580 --> 03:56:17,540
You can kind of, either unless there's a major decision

2455
03:56:17,540 --> 03:56:19,480
to support these businesses for the purposes,

2456
03:56:19,800 --> 03:56:21,100
these people passionately want,

2457
03:56:21,380 --> 03:56:23,740
which I can totally understand and appreciate.

2458
03:56:23,740 --> 03:56:27,500
And, in fact, we've helped them for the last 10 years, but I haven't heard a word about that.

2459
03:56:27,520 --> 03:56:29,320
Nobody said that they appreciate that.

2460
03:56:30,360 --> 03:56:35,100
So, that part is the reality as economics are coming to the Earth.

2461
03:56:35,380 --> 03:56:37,260
It's just the way things are, you know?

2462
03:56:38,240 --> 03:56:43,060
And the property taxes insurance, everything else is not allowing us to continue on this path.

2463
03:56:43,900 --> 03:56:44,580
It's just as simple.

2464
03:56:44,820 --> 03:56:49,380
I imagine if I were you, I'd be very discouraged at this point with the time and money

2465
03:56:49,380 --> 03:56:50,560
that you put into that.

2466
03:56:51,340 --> 03:56:59,140
I think maybe I'm along the same route as the mayor and if you could sell the building to someone who

2467
03:56:59,140 --> 03:57:06,740
would be willing to take on those just in the paper tonight on North Broadway, a woman who bought

2468
03:57:06,740 --> 03:57:14,500
her building an art building, if someone wanted to take that on, this is a very thorny.

2469
03:57:15,680 --> 03:57:18,020
Now, I appreciate what you've done, I appreciate the passion of the community.

2470
03:57:18,020 --> 03:57:20,420
It's hard to have a business that supports these rats.

2471
03:57:20,760 --> 03:57:21,140
I agree.

2472
03:57:21,320 --> 03:57:22,320
I don't disagree with that.

2473
03:57:22,760 --> 03:57:25,820
It's hard to have a business these days to do that.

2474
03:57:25,860 --> 03:57:26,760
Thank you.

2475
03:57:26,820 --> 03:57:27,880
Thank you.

2476
03:57:28,120 --> 03:57:29,060
Councilmember Miller.

2477
03:57:30,020 --> 03:57:34,640
Yeah, the question for staff and a first-in-read section from the Secretary of the Interior

2478
03:57:34,640 --> 03:57:38,640
Standards and the Sucction from the Landmark Designation Study, then have a question.

2479
03:57:39,920 --> 03:57:44,300
So standard number one says a property shall be used for its historic purpose or be placed

2480
03:57:44,300 --> 03:57:49,400
new use that requires minimal change to the defining characteristics of the building and its site and

2481
03:57:49,400 --> 03:57:57,460
environment. The quote I'm pulling from the landmark designation study which stated 2019 but with

2482
03:57:57,460 --> 03:58:03,700
2024 updates says of this block of the early commercial development along Broadway and its cross streets

2483
03:58:03,700 --> 03:58:09,000
the highest concentration of accident buildings is located in the 300 block of Broadway Avenue South

2484
03:58:09,000 --> 03:58:13,120
and on 3rd time, 33 South West between Broadway and 1st Avenue South.

2485
03:58:13,920 --> 03:58:16,320
Architecturally, this area is characterized by

2486
03:58:16,320 --> 03:58:18,220
contiguous development along the blocks.

2487
03:58:19,000 --> 03:58:21,400
One, and two story-masonry buildings with first-level

2488
03:58:21,400 --> 03:58:24,860
storefronts, flat roofs, punched openings at upper levels,

2489
03:58:25,040 --> 03:58:26,200
and revival style details.

2490
03:58:27,640 --> 03:58:29,960
So is that block scale, building form,

2491
03:58:29,960 --> 03:58:32,880
and the continuous low rise, street wall character

2492
03:58:32,880 --> 03:58:35,140
defining under the 2022 guidelines,

2493
03:58:35,140 --> 03:58:42,220
or only on the facades, like, thinking about flat roofs, I mean obviously that's considering

2494
03:58:42,220 --> 03:58:49,880
a characteristic beyond just the facades. So how would you interpret standard one with that quote

2495
03:58:49,880 --> 03:58:51,600
from the designation study?

2496
03:58:57,540 --> 03:59:05,560
Yeah, councilman Miller, are you asking if the addition, if the addition

2497
03:59:05,560 --> 03:59:14,620
would alter that characteristic? Correct. So looking at minimal change. How do you interpret

2498
03:59:14,620 --> 03:59:22,740
that or help us understand that standard within this project? So the minimal change to the

2499
03:59:22,740 --> 03:59:28,900
distinctive, to the distinctive, it's distinctive materials, features, spaces, and spatial

2500
03:59:28,900 --> 03:59:35,740
relationships. So, what are the distinctive materials features, spaces, and spatial relationships?

2501
03:59:36,680 --> 03:59:42,540
I interpret that based on the eligibility study to be the facades of these buildings.

2502
03:59:42,820 --> 03:59:51,880
Those are where the distinctive, well, read it again, the distinctive materials features, spaces, and spatial relationships exist.

2503
03:59:51,880 --> 03:59:59,980
And it's, and that's why, um, the last go round, I recommend it denial because the,

2504
04:00:00,000 --> 04:00:19,340
The addition was infringing on that in terms of its proximity to those facades by pushing them back further, you are allowed to still, as a, as a viewer, as somebody who's experiencing that space, you're still experiencing them at that second, at that two-story level when you're in the district.

2505
04:00:19,340 --> 04:00:26,540
Okay. So then I appreciate you bringing up the viewshad. So how did the analysis, your analysis

2506
04:00:26,540 --> 04:00:33,000
is staff contemplate the viewshad? What points is it the entirety of the district where you kind

2507
04:00:33,000 --> 04:00:40,340
of looking at that from and saying minimal change? Sure. Yeah. So and then you've got an illustration

2508
04:00:40,340 --> 04:00:46,180
on the screen right now that shows that you do see the tip of the plumber building from some

2509
04:00:46,180 --> 04:01:10,620
advantage points. How important is that to understand the history of the district? I think that's where my interpretation is that being able to see that does not directly relate to the historic significance, at least not to the weight of prohibiting this.

2510
04:01:10,620 --> 04:01:15,880
Okay. And then also looking back to the guidelines, I was looking through the documents,

2511
04:01:16,280 --> 04:01:20,340
as the guidelines state character defining features must not be radically changed,

2512
04:01:20,600 --> 04:01:24,260
obscure, damaged, destroyed. And so I'm curious about the word obscured, too,

2513
04:01:24,540 --> 04:01:28,120
because I mean, it does feel like depending on your vantage point,

2514
04:01:28,260 --> 04:01:32,820
there is some scurrying of the spatial relation of the district.

2515
04:01:32,920 --> 04:01:38,160
Of the character defining features, but also it defines the environment as well.

2516
04:01:38,160 --> 04:01:41,820
and some, which I would assume goes to the spatial relationships

2517
04:01:41,820 --> 04:01:42,760
between the buildings.

2518
04:01:43,780 --> 04:01:43,820
Sure.

2519
04:01:45,460 --> 04:01:49,120
Yeah, I mean, I don't think that it's obscuring.

2520
04:01:50,200 --> 04:01:52,880
And I use the example at the HPC meeting.

2521
04:01:53,420 --> 04:01:54,780
You have some historic districts

2522
04:01:54,780 --> 04:01:57,580
where the significance of the view shed

2523
04:01:57,580 --> 04:02:01,340
is directly related to the significance of that historic site.

2524
04:02:01,840 --> 04:02:04,180
Take a battlefield where you see something

2525
04:02:04,180 --> 04:02:07,700
in the distance where maybe some action was coming

2526
04:02:07,700 --> 04:02:14,020
from that direction and it has a direct relationship to the historic significance of that property.

2527
04:02:14,680 --> 04:02:19,440
I don't see this as being that case. I just don't. That's my opinion.

2528
04:02:20,040 --> 04:02:22,500
So then I have some questions for the applicant.

2529
04:02:29,030 --> 04:02:32,530
So if the Standard 10 which the HPC also found for

2530
04:02:32,530 --> 04:02:40,290
denial says that if the additional removed, but the character defining features would be intact. So

2531
04:02:40,290 --> 04:02:45,890
if for some reason this project, this addition were approved and then removed what would remain

2532
04:02:45,890 --> 04:02:51,950
of these buildings. I think that, why all the emphasis was on the fuss odds and the preservation

2533
04:02:51,950 --> 04:03:00,090
and the setbacks. So all of that would be preserved. What's behind that, it would come down,

2534
04:03:00,310 --> 04:03:04,110
but then it would be back and it's original condition based on the historically significant

2535
04:03:04,110 --> 04:03:10,930
besides as as was always articulated to us. Okay. So on standard one, which you can

2536
04:03:10,930 --> 04:03:17,910
talk about minimal change, did you consider alternate addition heights between zero

2537
04:03:17,910 --> 04:03:21,730
and seven stories of addition and where what were some of the alternatives?

2538
04:03:21,910 --> 04:03:27,450
I think we were 14 but lower between like a two story addition and a seven story

2539
04:03:27,450 --> 04:03:32,070
addition. Yes, we did consider a lot of variations but to make the project

2540
04:03:32,070 --> 04:03:35,590
economically viable. You have to have a certain amount of space that's

2541
04:03:35,590 --> 04:03:40,350
rentable to generate revenue and income to support the cost of and then the

2542
04:03:40,350 --> 04:03:44,550
ongoing maintenance. So we leveled out at at seven with that number of

2543
04:03:44,550 --> 04:03:49,030
units and so seven is the minimal change that your analysis makes the

2544
04:03:49,030 --> 04:03:56,410
building economically viable. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Consumantredoring. I'm

2545
04:03:56,410 --> 04:04:02,050
ready to make a motion. Go ahead. Consumantred. I moved to deny the

2546
04:04:02,050 --> 04:04:07,670
requested appeal and not overturn the denial of the certificate of appropriateness for an addition to the

2547
04:04:07,670 --> 04:04:14,590
project at 309-3317 Broadway Avenue. Motion has been made by Councilmobredoring, is there a second?

2548
04:04:16,270 --> 04:04:19,090
I'll second that motion. Go ahead.

2549
04:04:19,410 --> 04:04:24,930
I want to thank the members of the public who came and spoke during public comment.

2550
04:04:26,110 --> 04:04:30,190
I am also a fan of the businesses in these buildings.

2551
04:04:30,190 --> 04:04:35,970
I just read a great book about national parks that I purchased from Diatem and looking for

2552
04:04:35,970 --> 04:04:41,590
a reading a history of Mayo Clinic that my wife is reading was also purchased at Biota Diatem.

2553
04:04:42,390 --> 04:04:46,170
The threshold hurts is where I go to buy my Christmas gifts because I believe in supporting

2554
04:04:46,170 --> 04:04:47,130
local artists.

2555
04:04:47,630 --> 04:04:51,090
Art heads, I wish I was good at visual arts, I'm a musician.

2556
04:04:52,430 --> 04:04:56,130
So, love going in that space, but it's really not for me.

2557
04:04:56,130 --> 04:04:59,970
Kathy steam as a as a pass

2558
04:05:00,000 --> 04:05:20,980
Order of opening and affirming church and a fierce advocate and ally for the LGBTQIA plus community here in Rochester when members of my congregation were looking for a safe place. The whole Bible study for keen youth in that population, Kathy steam was my first recommendation.

2559
04:05:21,900 --> 04:05:24,840
Treadome is a beloved business from my family.

2560
04:05:25,180 --> 04:05:29,840
My son is a sneakerhead and like thrift store shopping.

2561
04:05:30,140 --> 04:05:32,360
Doesn't really work for me, but I like going into,

2562
04:05:32,500 --> 04:05:35,400
I love going into Treadome with him as he was growing up.

2563
04:05:35,580 --> 04:05:38,160
So I could pat Phoebe on the head.

2564
04:05:38,740 --> 04:05:39,660
Love the businesses.

2565
04:05:40,380 --> 04:05:44,440
That being said, our task is to not make this decision

2566
04:05:44,440 --> 04:05:47,020
based on the current business use.

2567
04:05:47,020 --> 04:05:55,040
Therefore, I have been doing a lot of research and came across the document, the Secretary

2568
04:05:55,040 --> 04:05:59,440
of the Interior Standards for the Treatment of Historic Properties with Guidelines for

2569
04:05:59,440 --> 04:06:05,760
Preserving Rehabilitation, Restoring and Reconstructing Historic Buildings.

2570
04:06:06,820 --> 04:06:12,720
These document is very lengthy offers recommendations on page 26.

2571
04:06:13,260 --> 04:06:15,760
New exterior additions and related new construction.

2572
04:06:15,760 --> 04:06:26,480
There must be a balance between differentiation and compatibility to maintain the historic character and the identity of the building being enlarged.

2573
04:06:26,840 --> 04:06:43,900
I don't believe that our current proposal does that. Page 146 recommended designing new exterior additions to historic buildings or adjacent new construction that are compatible with the historic character of the setting that preserves the historic relationship between buildings and the landscape.

2574
04:06:43,900 --> 04:06:51,960
because I believe in a central character of this historic district is the view of the

2575
04:06:51,960 --> 04:06:58,120
plumber building and the caler sign I believe that our current proposal does not meet that

2576
04:06:58,120 --> 04:07:04,020
recommendation page 156 recommendation ensuring that the addition is subordinate

2577
04:07:04,020 --> 04:07:09,960
and secondary to the historic building and is compatible in massing scale materials

2578
04:07:09,960 --> 04:07:17,280
relationship of solids to solids to voids and color, what's not recommended in this document.

2579
04:07:17,820 --> 04:07:23,320
Constructing a new addition that is as large or larger than the historic building,

2580
04:07:23,920 --> 04:07:29,200
which visually overwhelms it. The results in the demunation or loss of its historic character.

2581
04:07:29,760 --> 04:07:37,560
I believe this proposal takes the non-recommended route. Recommendation, page 156, using the same

2582
04:07:37,560 --> 04:07:47,400
forms materials and color range of the historic building and a manner that does not duplicate it but distinguishes the addition from the original building.

2583
04:07:49,040 --> 04:08:06,040
Looking at the renderings provided by the applicant in the packet, it does not appear from the renderings provided that the same materials and at least colors aren't being used in the complete construction of this new addition.

2584
04:08:06,040 --> 04:08:13,820
Recommendation page 156 ensuring that the addition is stylistically appropriate for the historic building type

2585
04:08:15,760 --> 04:08:22,180
If I look at the 309 building that has a big glass tower sticking out of the top of it

2586
04:08:22,180 --> 04:08:24,140
top of it. I believe that

2587
04:08:24,140 --> 04:08:28,160
This proposal does not abide by that recommendation

2588
04:08:29,020 --> 04:08:35,560
Recommended considering the design for a new addition in terms of its relationship to the historic building as well as the historic district

2589
04:08:35,560 --> 04:08:42,460
neighborhood and setting, I believe, contributing properties in the district itself will be

2590
04:08:42,460 --> 04:08:48,900
diminished by the size and scope of this addition. Therefore, it doesn't buy by that recommendation.

2591
04:08:49,760 --> 04:08:54,740
Recommendation, deciding on addition to a historic building in a densely built location,

2592
04:08:54,840 --> 04:09:00,920
such as the downtown commercial district, to appear as a separate building or in fill rather than

2593
04:09:00,920 --> 04:09:07,380
in addition. In such a setting, the addition structure must be compatible with the size and the scale

2594
04:09:07,380 --> 04:09:13,720
of the historic building and surrounding buildings. Usually, the front elevation of the new building

2595
04:09:13,720 --> 04:09:19,920
should be in the same plane, not set back from the historic building. This approach may also provide

2596
04:09:19,920 --> 04:09:25,600
the opportunity for a larger addition or infill when the facade can be broken up into smaller

2597
04:09:25,600 --> 04:09:30,520
elements that are consistent with the scale of the historic building and surrounding buildings.

2598
04:09:31,020 --> 04:09:38,100
I do not believe that the project in front of us follows that recommendation. My main standard

2599
04:09:38,100 --> 04:09:45,800
for voting to uphold the HPC's decision is standard 10, make it reversible. New additions,

2600
04:09:46,040 --> 04:09:50,140
new construction should be undertaken in such a manner that if removed in the future,

2601
04:09:50,140 --> 04:09:56,920
the essential form and integrity of the historic property, and its environment would be unimpaired.

2602
04:09:57,260 --> 04:09:59,980
If you remove the back from a building, you are...

2603
04:10:00,000 --> 04:10:08,640
Changing the structural integrity of the building. Therefore, I feel like this project does not live up to that standard.

2604
04:10:09,360 --> 04:10:25,420
I really appreciate the work that our community development department has done. Mr. Henderson, I appreciate your continued passion to do work here. I just don't think we are here yet, to make me feel comfortable moving forward.

2605
04:10:25,420 --> 04:10:37,440
Thank you, Council Member. As the seconder, I will speak next and I will support the findings of the HPC.

2606
04:10:37,720 --> 04:10:51,060
And again, I also will echo what my colleague said is I appreciate Mr. Henderson you coming back here with an altered version,

2607
04:10:51,060 --> 04:11:18,080
But I really it's hard to see when you look at the building and it's the alteration is supposed to be subordinate to either the historic building or subordinate in the historic district and it's clearly a building we can see it is not subordinate to the district.

2608
04:11:18,080 --> 04:11:36,300
And I have some concern with staff using a non-contributing building as the model to then say this building is subordinate to that building.

2609
04:11:36,300 --> 04:11:48,540
We are in a place colleagues where we have a historic district that was designated less than two and a half years ago.

2610
04:11:48,540 --> 04:12:01,020
and it's been tested by developers, and it also has some integrity to it.

2611
04:12:01,020 --> 04:12:07,580
And we are also creating this certificate of appropriateness.

2612
04:12:08,140 --> 04:12:18,300
I have some concern with staff not reaching out to the State Historic Preservation Office for their input on whether or not this was appropriate.

2613
04:12:18,300 --> 04:12:43,600
This is appropriate. We are very nascent in the work of protecting 31 buildings in a very small part of our city and we made that decision that we wanted to protect these buildings and with that protection comes standards and

2614
04:12:43,600 --> 04:13:02,360
And the need for business owners who were consulted as we went through this process on what those standards mean as far as whether something is appropriate.

2615
04:13:02,360 --> 04:13:10,960
I really am most concerned with us opening the door to allowing what, as I said, this

2616
04:13:10,960 --> 04:13:19,600
council created to be diminished and wounded by the first of a thousand cuts here.

2617
04:13:19,600 --> 04:13:49,460
And we also have as a council and as a DMC put financial commitments into building up this historic district with no interest loans grants and others to help really build the vitality that we all want to see in the district and I just have to also say I am just overwhelmed

2618
04:13:49,460 --> 04:14:02,340
by the over 40 patrons and Rochester residents who are creating vitality there and they are creating

2619
04:14:02,340 --> 04:14:10,300
that and we need to be looking at preserving that and I encourage you Mr. Anderson to encourage

2620
04:14:10,300 --> 04:14:19,440
that vitality where it's at and look at those no-inserts loans and look at your history

2621
04:14:19,440 --> 04:14:49,420
story properties as historic properties. I look at this, and I say, this is a back door way, or maybe even a back alley way of getting around the objectives of our historic district. And what you need to do is work with the communities there and see what you can do with the buildings you have.

2622
04:14:49,440 --> 04:14:55,820
or sell them, because they are in our historic district.

2623
04:14:56,300 --> 04:14:57,360
Council member Wall.

2624
04:15:01,870 --> 04:15:09,710
Last night, my wife and I decided that we would eat downtown and then walk through the downtown.

2625
04:15:10,450 --> 04:15:13,970
So that we could really study the fronts of the buildings, look in the alleys.

2626
04:15:14,210 --> 04:15:17,870
It's something that we think is valuable, and we would like to preserve.

2627
04:15:18,390 --> 04:15:26,110
I would like the best of both worlds. I would like a viable project that would protect and save those buildings.

2628
04:15:27,590 --> 04:15:36,690
I worry that this might be the last best effort to actually save the facades and two-thirds

2629
04:15:36,690 --> 04:15:44,470
of the buildings that if Mr. Henderson needs to divest himself of those buildings, who will

2630
04:15:44,470 --> 04:15:51,750
take that on and is willing to invest the amount of money that would actually bring the

2631
04:15:51,750 --> 04:16:01,730
buildings to continue safe operation with businesses that can afford the rent.

2632
04:16:02,610 --> 04:16:03,370
It's so thorny.

2633
04:16:06,660 --> 04:16:09,060
You know, you want to have it all.

2634
04:16:10,340 --> 04:16:13,840
I appreciate the work Mr. Henderson has done.

2635
04:16:14,680 --> 04:16:18,200
The community lack of support has been overwhelming.

2636
04:16:19,840 --> 04:16:24,440
Mr. President, over here, Mr. Spindler Craig.

2637
04:16:24,740 --> 04:16:29,600
Thank you, if I could interject. I was just trying to figure out the right time to push

2638
04:16:29,600 --> 04:16:36,040
the issue a bit on the question of findings. There's more discussions to come, I think,

2639
04:16:36,220 --> 04:16:41,560
but we really do need clarification, perhaps, from community development, whether they have

2640
04:16:41,560 --> 04:16:51,200
enough from the motioners in this case to have clarity on what findings would support this particular motion.

2641
04:16:52,020 --> 04:17:00,420
We really do need some amount of clarity in order for the body to deliberate on those specific proposed findings.

2642
04:17:01,460 --> 04:17:05,700
So I would defer to community development to weigh in.

2643
04:17:05,700 --> 04:17:14,320
Miss Woodward. Thank you. I just wanted to clarify. I know that Council Member Doring listed and kind of went through the guidelines that were identified in the Secretary of Interior standards.

2644
04:17:14,800 --> 04:17:20,880
The actual standards that we reviewed that were part of Heritage Preservation Commission are in the packet of those 10 numbers.

2645
04:17:21,140 --> 04:17:31,140
So I just and then I heard Council President Shubring mentioned being consistent with the Heritage Preservation Commission. So I wanted to make sure that we were clear on what those findings were.

2646
04:17:32,640 --> 04:17:33,720
Council Member Doring.

2647
04:17:35,100 --> 04:17:40,960
So, I feel like my motion stands because I feel like standard 10 is not being met.

2648
04:17:42,820 --> 04:17:43,780
Thank you.

2649
04:17:44,400 --> 04:17:44,420
Yeah.

2650
04:17:44,420 --> 04:17:48,340
Can I add and clarify, Mr. Patterson Lundgren.

2651
04:17:49,240 --> 04:17:54,400
I spoke to the scale and size of the alteration.

2652
04:17:54,500 --> 04:17:57,280
Is that standard 9 or is that 10?

2653
04:17:58,420 --> 04:17:59,760
Part of me while I look.

2654
04:18:04,460 --> 04:18:05,360
Yep, that is number 9.

2655
04:18:05,360 --> 04:18:10,960
So, Council Member Doring, are you okay with adding also it's not in keeping with standard 9?

2656
04:18:11,420 --> 04:18:11,420
Absolutely.

2657
04:18:14,200 --> 04:18:14,200
Okay.

2658
04:18:15,640 --> 04:18:16,700
Council Member Miller.

2659
04:18:17,380 --> 04:18:21,180
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think standard 10 for me is just the crux of this.

2660
04:18:22,160 --> 04:18:28,620
If the permanent demolition of part of the buildings and 309 largely in its entirety but for

2661
04:18:28,620 --> 04:18:34,320
the facade is removed, it's essential form has changed and like those aren't reversible

2662
04:18:35,360 --> 04:18:41,260
steps for the buildings and I think that's the clearest place where I just can't

2663
04:18:41,260 --> 04:18:46,340
understand how to apply standard 10 in a different way. I think similarly

2664
04:18:46,340 --> 04:18:51,460
standard 1 and 9, the talk about minimal change and the spatial relationships

2665
04:18:51,460 --> 04:18:58,580
also I cannot get my head around how a seven-story addition is compatible in scale

2666
04:18:58,580 --> 04:19:00,640
with a two-story building.

2667
04:19:03,100 --> 04:19:08,820
So those are my read of the HPC. I find it more difficult to apply

2668
04:19:08,820 --> 04:19:21,000
to five and six, but I think one nine and ten, it seems quite clear to me that those findings

2669
04:19:21,000 --> 04:19:24,180
do not fit the Secretary of the Interior Standards.

2670
04:19:26,660 --> 04:19:27,540
Council Member Palmer.

2671
04:19:30,240 --> 04:19:31,420
Staff is recommending

2672
04:19:32,920 --> 04:19:36,380
9 and 10, how did you justify 9 and 10?

2673
04:19:40,890 --> 04:19:48,030
So with number 9, I'm indicating that the proposed project will not destroy the historic

2674
04:19:48,030 --> 04:19:53,870
materials, features, and spatial relationships that provide the historic character to

2675
04:19:53,870 --> 04:19:55,330
these properties along Broadway.

2676
04:19:55,950 --> 04:19:59,130
That takes us back to what the eligibility study indicates.

2677
04:20:00,000 --> 04:20:07,500
It's referring to the facades of the buildings, and it's referring to them being directly adjacent to Broadway.

2678
04:20:08,040 --> 04:20:20,000
And it's referring to them as being direct entry from Broadway. Mixed uses. It doesn't.

2679
04:20:20,000 --> 04:20:27,120
project has very little impact on four of those storefronts, on two of the buildings. The project

2680
04:20:27,120 --> 04:20:36,260
has a little more impact on 309, but it maintains that facade, so you're still experiencing

2681
04:20:36,260 --> 04:20:42,100
those that the character defining feature features of the historic district.

2682
04:20:42,100 --> 04:20:43,980
Number 10.

2683
04:20:44,160 --> 04:20:45,180
Number 10.

2684
04:20:45,640 --> 04:20:47,900
Let me just look at my notes here.

2685
04:20:49,600 --> 04:20:56,320
Again, I think that it's the essential form and integrity of experiencing it within the historic district.

2686
04:20:56,980 --> 04:21:03,800
One of the things that our certificate of appropriateness considers is the exterior, right?

2687
04:21:03,960 --> 04:21:10,780
We don't review and we don't require certificate of appropriateness for alterations on the interior.

2688
04:21:10,780 --> 04:21:17,040
So I think you start to have to define, where does that, you know, where does that happen?

2689
04:21:18,140 --> 04:21:25,220
You're still maintaining the exterior facade, and that's why that's why I made that recommendation.

2690
04:21:27,100 --> 04:21:28,680
And you're comfortable making that recommendation.

2691
04:21:29,080 --> 04:21:31,780
I stand by what, yeah, by what I said.

2692
04:21:32,560 --> 04:21:36,060
And you're our historic preservation person on staff.

2693
04:21:36,220 --> 04:21:36,360
Yes.

2694
04:21:37,000 --> 04:21:37,220
Correct.

2695
04:21:37,340 --> 04:21:37,860
Correct.

2696
04:21:40,100 --> 04:21:51,240
Can I follow up on council member Palmer's questioning, Mr. Patterson Longard? Yes, you are our historic preservation specialist on staff.

2697
04:21:52,120 --> 04:22:04,780
Can you talk to us about why the state historic preservation office was not contacted and asked to weigh in on this alteration?

2698
04:22:05,400 --> 04:22:07,300
Absolutely. Yeah, that is not part of our process.

2699
04:22:07,300 --> 04:22:12,380
that's not part of our adopted process, there's no requirements for it, and it's not something

2700
04:22:12,380 --> 04:22:19,380
that we typically do for a certificate of appropriateness. So it's not typical, and it's not

2701
04:22:19,380 --> 04:22:26,720
required, so there you do it for other historic preservation projects, don't you? No, not for certificates

2702
04:22:26,720 --> 04:22:33,160
of appropriateness. When we are looking at designation, then we are required to reach out to them

2703
04:22:33,160 --> 04:22:39,780
get their opinion. That's by state statute and buyer UDC. We're not required and we don't

2704
04:22:39,780 --> 04:22:43,640
typically follow that as a procedure for a certificate of appropriateness.

2705
04:22:45,120 --> 04:22:50,860
When a building owner wants to demolish a building is ship-o contacted?

2706
04:22:53,290 --> 04:22:58,390
So when a building owner wants to demolish a building, they have to come before the city council

2707
04:22:58,390 --> 04:23:01,270
want to ask for the designation to be removed.

2708
04:23:02,050 --> 04:23:11,950
Community development will not issue a building demolition permit unless you remove the designation from it.

2709
04:23:13,690 --> 04:23:24,930
We are not required by statute to approach the state preservation office for removal of properties from

2710
04:23:24,930 --> 04:23:27,730
for removal of the designation.

2711
04:23:28,990 --> 04:23:30,830
But you have in the past, correct?

2712
04:23:31,610 --> 04:23:33,450
I don't believe we have.

2713
04:23:35,070 --> 04:23:38,570
The demolition of the Lourdes High School, I do know that

2714
04:23:38,570 --> 04:23:45,030
Shipwell was there was a letter from Shipwell speaking against that.

2715
04:23:48,320 --> 04:23:50,380
We specifically didn't reach out to them.

2716
04:23:50,380 --> 04:23:54,080
It could have also been the applicant at the time that requested that from Shipwell.

2717
04:23:55,700 --> 04:23:59,140
Are there any other council members wishing to be heard on this item?

2718
04:24:00,240 --> 04:24:00,380
Council.

2719
04:24:00,680 --> 04:24:02,040
Can I follow my question?

2720
04:24:02,420 --> 04:24:02,880
Yeah, absolutely.

2721
04:24:03,640 --> 04:24:04,480
Go ahead, council member.

2722
04:24:04,760 --> 04:24:06,060
The building's landmark.

2723
04:24:06,320 --> 04:24:07,620
Or is that the district is landmark?

2724
04:24:11,370 --> 04:24:12,850
The district is landmark.

2725
04:24:13,030 --> 04:24:14,830
We landmark the historic district.

2726
04:24:14,950 --> 04:24:17,190
That is the property that is landmarked.

2727
04:24:18,270 --> 04:24:19,690
The buildings, these three buildings,

2728
04:24:19,990 --> 04:24:24,090
contribute to the historic district and to the landmark.

2729
04:24:24,490 --> 04:24:26,690
But is the district that is landmarked?

2730
04:24:27,850 --> 04:24:29,710
I'll call the question.

2731
04:24:31,770 --> 04:24:33,570
Can you hold on to calling the question?

2732
04:24:33,810 --> 04:24:34,690
It looks like all the questions.

2733
04:24:34,950 --> 04:24:36,530
It'll just be, I hadn't spoke yet.

2734
04:24:38,370 --> 04:24:39,470
Go ahead and cancel my breaking.

2735
04:24:39,710 --> 04:24:41,490
I mean, in this discussion, I'm following,

2736
04:24:42,130 --> 04:24:44,030
there is this one quasi-judicial,

2737
04:24:44,550 --> 04:24:46,050
and we have these criteria left to use.

2738
04:24:46,290 --> 04:24:49,770
It seems reasonable that differing people.

2739
04:24:50,010 --> 04:24:53,090
Can I take the criteria and say it's met or not met?

2740
04:24:53,130 --> 04:24:55,390
I think that's, can happen with these things.

2741
04:24:55,390 --> 04:24:59,970
I am still trying to like take this whole-

2742
04:25:00,000 --> 04:25:14,200
The public hearing is far more the powerful part of the public hearing and the emotion, but also the idea of the support for these avant-garde communities and what they need and what they're owed from us.

2743
04:25:14,360 --> 04:25:17,720
But I can't find any of that in the criteria that I'm dealing with.

2744
04:25:17,720 --> 04:25:21,180
And I'm worried that we're working to get there.

2745
04:25:21,660 --> 04:25:27,140
And I'm fighting that impulse.

2746
04:25:29,640 --> 04:25:31,900
Councilmember Waltox about the naughty issues

2747
04:25:31,900 --> 04:25:32,800
with historic preservation.

2748
04:25:33,520 --> 04:25:36,540
We as an owner of the Shateau are fighting with the same thing.

2749
04:25:36,820 --> 04:25:40,480
How do we maintain that building viably

2750
04:25:41,200 --> 04:25:46,020
and have it just be used as a community place?

2751
04:25:47,860 --> 04:25:54,780
for whatever reason. It's not working out. I'm sitting here right now knowing that we went through one of

2752
04:25:54,780 --> 04:26:00,680
these reviews for demolition and another review for another building type that we could not accept

2753
04:26:00,680 --> 04:26:06,020
because we were like the experts were looking at going like it does not support the integrity of it.

2754
04:26:06,460 --> 04:26:11,580
I actually do have much more of a facade view of what the historic district is that you experience it

2755
04:26:11,580 --> 04:26:16,920
as you're walking around. I'm kind of thrown off that someone says, no, when I go over to the corner of

2756
04:26:16,920 --> 04:26:27,080
and this I can't see something. I had no concept that that was part of the historic district that you can't block anything or that you could put a drone up and say oh you're changing the roofs.

2757
04:26:27,640 --> 04:26:36,140
I just didn't think that was part of what we were protecting. I thought I really did think it was the streetscape and what our staff talks about of the setbacks from there.

2758
04:26:36,140 --> 04:26:42,260
So, as the motion is made here, now, I don't think I'm not going to support it.

2759
04:26:42,840 --> 04:26:51,380
I think we have this back and forth going on with, we did a historic preservation policy,

2760
04:26:52,200 --> 04:26:55,640
which I don't need to say this, but I will, that I didn't support at the time, but it is

2761
04:26:55,640 --> 04:27:04,500
the law of the land, and I'm going to enforce it for how we're going to use it in this

2762
04:27:04,500 --> 04:27:11,420
problem of how do you make these buildings viable versus how do you keep them historic?

2763
04:27:12,120 --> 04:27:13,160
And it is a struggle.

2764
04:27:13,900 --> 04:27:16,400
I struggle with the idea of what does it mean to be economically viable.

2765
04:27:16,520 --> 04:27:19,800
I don't want to say, well, you could have made ten more dollars of fortitude to

2766
04:27:19,800 --> 04:27:20,280
done this.

2767
04:27:20,480 --> 04:27:21,900
Does that something we have to do now?

2768
04:27:22,000 --> 04:27:23,480
And I don't think that's upon us.

2769
04:27:23,660 --> 04:27:27,920
But I think it is a worry that and we've struggled with this through DMC and

2770
04:27:27,920 --> 04:27:30,640
through other areas to say, how do we help make these better?

2771
04:27:31,000 --> 04:27:34,020
And this is a case where the building owners are coming and saying,

2772
04:27:34,020 --> 04:27:36,340
And we can protect the fronts of this.

2773
04:27:36,480 --> 04:27:38,560
We can do the setbacks that you talked about.

2774
04:27:38,900 --> 04:27:41,960
We can do this height because it's really not noticeable from this.

2775
04:27:42,320 --> 04:27:46,340
So based on those things, then what I thought a historic district was for, both contributing

2776
04:27:46,340 --> 04:27:49,740
and non-contributing, it makes it difficult for me to support this motion.

2777
04:27:50,860 --> 04:27:51,660
Thank you, Council Member.

2778
04:27:53,140 --> 04:28:04,000
So we are voting on the motion to support the findings of the HPC and clerk case of the

2779
04:28:04,000 --> 04:28:09,280
Please call the roll council member keen me council member Miller. Hi

2780
04:28:09,800 --> 04:28:11,220
Council member wall.

2781
04:28:18,990 --> 04:28:19,190
Nay

2782
04:28:20,070 --> 04:28:21,650
Council member Fredericks

2783
04:28:22,550 --> 04:28:24,810
Council member Palmer. May

2784
04:28:25,410 --> 04:28:27,850
Council member Dorene. Hi

2785
04:28:27,850 --> 04:28:34,290
Council president Schubert. Bye motion fails. May make a motion. Yeah, go ahead. Council member make a motion

2786
04:28:34,290 --> 04:28:40,090
Proving the requested appeal and overturning the Nile of the circuit of appropriate this for an addition to the project gets

2787
04:28:40,090 --> 04:28:45,590
309 to 317 Broadway Avenue is there a second to that motion.

2788
04:28:45,850 --> 04:28:50,010
Second motion made by council member Palmer and seconded by council member

2789
04:28:50,010 --> 04:28:53,210
Frederick's any more to add council member.

2790
04:28:53,790 --> 04:28:55,330
Any further discussion?

2791
04:28:55,710 --> 04:28:56,050
President.

2792
04:28:56,610 --> 04:28:57,290
Again.

2793
04:28:58,470 --> 04:28:59,130
I'll jump in earlier.

2794
04:28:59,130 --> 04:28:59,630
Go ahead.

2795
04:28:59,870 --> 04:29:00,230
This time.

2796
04:29:00,330 --> 04:29:01,110
Are there findings?

2797
04:29:01,110 --> 04:29:02,850
I want to clarify with the movements.

2798
04:29:03,430 --> 04:29:04,350
What with the movements?

2799
04:29:04,830 --> 04:29:06,410
What findings are being referenced?

2800
04:29:06,850 --> 04:29:07,470
Are there findings?

2801
04:29:07,470 --> 04:29:12,510
The ones provided by the staff in the staff report in the packet.

2802
04:29:12,670 --> 04:29:13,410
That is correct.

2803
04:29:13,890 --> 04:29:16,830
Any additional clarification needed by community development?

2804
04:29:18,550 --> 04:29:19,570
No, we don't need anything additional.

2805
04:29:19,710 --> 04:29:20,470
Thank you.

2806
04:29:22,030 --> 04:29:23,350
Council Member Wall.

2807
04:29:25,170 --> 04:29:26,890
Very just so hard.

2808
04:29:28,110 --> 04:29:37,250
If we were to move ahead, it would be with my certain hope that we would be working with the businesses that that

2809
04:29:37,250 --> 04:29:47,090
It really was the crux of what so much of the testimony was about tonight and the community that is so important to Rochester

2810
04:29:47,090 --> 04:29:50,250
So that would be a proviso for me.

2811
04:29:52,670 --> 04:29:53,750
Councilmember Fredericks.

2812
04:29:54,610 --> 04:29:55,610
I read in Molly.

2813
04:29:55,730 --> 04:29:59,250
Thank you for helping us navigate some really difficult waters.

2814
04:30:03,090 --> 04:30:31,610
Clerk case, so please call the roll. Council member keen. Aye. Council member Miller. Aye. Council member Wal. Aye. Council member Fredericks. Aye. Council member Palmer. Aye. Council member Doryn. Aye. Council President Shubing. Aye. Motion passes 43. Thank you everyone for being here. And for your testimony, we all appreciated it.

2815
04:30:31,630 --> 04:30:41,290
and we hope to see again. We are going to move on now to item G2, which is the 2026 transit

2816
04:30:41,290 --> 04:30:49,790
program of projects federal transit administration. This is Rachel Fos.

2817
04:30:52,040 --> 04:30:53,060
And you can hold for a

2818
04:30:53,060 --> 04:30:54,980
minute if you like as people leave.

2819
04:31:22,040 --> 04:31:25,840
Please exit if you're not staying for the meeting.

2820
04:31:42,160 --> 04:31:43,500
Go ahead, Ms. Fauge.

2821
04:31:43,840 --> 04:31:45,480
Good evening, Mayor, council members.

2822
04:31:46,060 --> 04:31:49,200
This is the 2026 annual program of projects.

2823
04:31:49,240 --> 04:31:51,520
There's sometimes affectionately called the pop.

2824
04:31:52,040 --> 04:31:56,500
To receive our federal funds, which include operation and capital project dollars.

2825
04:31:56,760 --> 04:31:59,640
This year, it's just operations and I'll be getting to that in a second.

2826
04:32:00,500 --> 04:32:05,540
So these funds are federal apartments that are distributed based on an equation.

2827
04:32:06,180 --> 04:32:08,800
And that equation includes population and population density.

2828
04:32:08,800 --> 04:32:11,280
and so those are often referred to as formula funds.

2829
04:32:11,380 --> 04:32:13,180
So a few years, they're discussing formula funds,

2830
04:32:13,600 --> 04:32:16,040
or 53-07 funds, these are the same.

2831
04:32:16,200 --> 04:32:19,080
They have many names, but the same dollar amount,

2832
04:32:19,220 --> 04:32:20,480
because it's an equation.

2833
04:32:22,220 --> 04:32:25,160
The pop is a compliance checkpoint for FTH,

2834
04:32:25,180 --> 04:32:29,020
an opportunity for FTH to verify that the formula funds are being

2835
04:32:29,020 --> 04:32:31,880
used for eligible and appropriately scoped projects.

2836
04:32:31,980 --> 04:32:34,220
It's also an opportunity for public engagement

2837
04:32:34,220 --> 04:32:36,640
in terms of our federal funding opportunities.

2838
04:32:37,240 --> 04:32:41,680
The projects listed are found in the State Transportation Improvement Plan or the

2839
04:32:41,680 --> 04:32:47,560
Step and they are funneled through Role Cog and I can throw in a bunch more

2840
04:32:47,560 --> 04:32:49,300
acronyms as we go.

2841
04:32:49,820 --> 04:32:54,060
So they're in the step and the tip, federally and statewide.

2842
04:32:55,040 --> 04:32:59,220
So you'll note that in the public notice that the transit development plan was listed as

2843
04:32:59,220 --> 04:33:04,060
one of the funding projects, however, that is included under VA's contract.

2844
04:33:04,060 --> 04:33:10,880
So that is a value add and that is being services we've provided to the city at no cost to our

2845
04:33:10,880 --> 04:33:16,420
our contract so that those funds have been rolled back into the operational dollars for that grant.

2846
04:33:17,140 --> 04:33:23,140
I wanted to point out that in their very loud it says local match and that local matching clues are

2847
04:33:23,140 --> 04:33:33,500
our local dollars from Rochester from our revenue and our advertising dollars but additionally it includes our

2848
04:33:33,500 --> 04:33:40,560
federal grant. So we're still on the hook for 15% total of that if we were to spend all of those

2849
04:33:40,560 --> 04:33:45,080
dollars and I think that's a really important designation there. We don't have to spend all of

2850
04:33:45,080 --> 04:33:49,640
the dollars. We can roll those over. You sell those kind of listed out within the public notice as well.

2851
04:33:51,880 --> 04:33:57,740
And so the project program projects includes current current known projects and again,

2852
04:33:58,000 --> 04:34:02,680
that's just operations for this year. It doesn't include competitive grant opportunities.

2853
04:34:02,680 --> 04:34:08,880
So things like the link BRT grants that we received or even the North Broadway grant are not.

2854
04:34:08,900 --> 04:34:13,060
They wouldn't be able to sit with in here because these are just our federal funding dollars.

2855
04:34:13,700 --> 04:34:17,420
So we're requesting approval of our annual program of projects.

2856
04:34:18,900 --> 04:34:20,560
Thank you, Ms. Fauci.

2857
04:34:21,400 --> 04:34:24,420
And this is a public hearing.

2858
04:34:24,520 --> 04:34:27,280
Anyone wishing to be heard on this item?

2859
04:34:27,680 --> 04:34:28,880
Please step forward.

2860
04:34:30,800 --> 04:34:33,880
Anybody wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward.

2861
04:34:35,260 --> 04:34:38,540
Anybody, anybody wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward.

2862
04:34:38,700 --> 04:34:40,880
Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing.

2863
04:34:41,500 --> 04:34:43,160
I'll let you back up.

2864
04:34:43,320 --> 04:34:47,300
Are there questions from Council Member Keen?

2865
04:34:47,680 --> 04:34:49,280
Yeah, just on that.

2866
04:34:49,440 --> 04:34:52,420
This is the thing I had the federal and then local state is ripped.

2867
04:34:52,420 --> 04:34:55,820
in there is the state funding up.

2868
04:35:00,000 --> 04:35:05,580
For federal is like 70% in state, is pan or is it very different?

2869
04:35:06,060 --> 04:35:14,340
It can vary. And so a few council meetings ago, we approved the state funding. And so that is more of a state

2870
04:35:14,340 --> 04:35:22,900
driven dollar amount. So it's not coordinated together. They're neighbors, but they're not,

2871
04:35:22,900 --> 04:35:26,710
they're not, they're not, they're not utilizing the same form. Okay. All right. Thank you.

2872
04:35:26,710 --> 04:35:28,450
Any further discussion?

2873
04:35:28,690 --> 04:35:30,110
Is there a motion on this item?

2874
04:35:30,730 --> 04:35:36,650
I'll be a motion adopting a resolution authorizing the filing of the 2026 transit program projects

2875
04:35:36,650 --> 04:35:41,030
on a subsequent submission of grant application and execution of grant.

2876
04:35:41,090 --> 04:35:41,510
Second.

2877
04:35:41,870 --> 04:35:43,370
Motion made by council member.

2878
04:35:43,890 --> 04:35:45,630
Frederickson seconded by council member.

2879
04:35:45,850 --> 04:35:47,210
Can any further discussion?

2880
04:35:47,950 --> 04:35:48,190
Council member.

2881
04:35:49,970 --> 04:35:50,290
Thank you.

2882
04:35:51,710 --> 04:35:53,070
All in favor say aye.

2883
04:35:53,150 --> 04:35:53,410
Aye.

2884
04:35:53,850 --> 04:35:55,970
post-ANA motion passes, thanks Rachel.

2885
04:35:56,750 --> 04:35:59,030
Next up, we have item G3,

2886
04:35:59,190 --> 04:36:03,810
which is a conditional use permit by UCI tower,

2887
04:36:03,990 --> 04:36:05,470
Mr. Desmond McGill.

2888
04:36:06,130 --> 04:36:08,090
Yes, thank you, President Shubring.

2889
04:36:08,450 --> 04:36:12,250
Thank you, Mr. McGill, for staying later than you usually have to.

2890
04:36:12,310 --> 04:36:16,090
You're welcome, and a good evening, Mayor.

2891
04:36:16,290 --> 04:36:18,910
Members of the council, I'll be bringing you this introduction.

2892
04:36:19,690 --> 04:36:21,270
This is a conditional use permit

2893
04:36:21,270 --> 04:36:25,410
or a free-standing commercial wireless telecommunications facility.

2894
04:36:26,110 --> 04:36:30,030
It consists of 125 foot monopole tower and ancillary equipment

2895
04:36:30,030 --> 04:36:33,850
in located in light industrial district at 1811

2896
04:36:33,850 --> 04:36:35,390
seventh street northwest.

2897
04:36:36,270 --> 04:36:40,330
The subject site is at the John Hardy's restaurant location situated north

2898
04:36:40,330 --> 04:36:44,870
and west of the inner change of Highway 14 and Highway 52.

2899
04:36:45,530 --> 04:36:49,450
The applicant UCI is looking to construct this monopole

2900
04:36:49,450 --> 04:36:53,530
for a service provider with the co-location space

2901
04:36:53,530 --> 04:36:56,730
for two additional providers for companies wishing

2902
04:36:56,730 --> 04:36:57,790
to serve this area.

2903
04:36:58,290 --> 04:37:02,570
The applicant looks to establish a 25 by 35 lease area site

2904
04:37:02,570 --> 04:37:04,050
on the south side of the restaurant.

2905
04:37:04,590 --> 04:37:08,010
The leasing site is generally concealed by large structures

2906
04:37:08,010 --> 04:37:11,450
located to the northwest south and southeast.

2907
04:37:12,230 --> 04:37:14,710
To approve this facility, you see requires

2908
04:37:14,710 --> 04:37:18,010
that that no existing viable monopole structure

2909
04:37:18,010 --> 04:37:23,530
or other structure be available to co-locate on within a half mile.

2910
04:37:23,790 --> 04:37:28,190
This proposed facility meets that criteria, a free standing

2911
04:37:28,190 --> 04:37:32,030
monopole up to 75 feet is permitted.

2912
04:37:32,050 --> 04:37:35,310
Is it permitted use in the light industrial zoning district?

2913
04:37:35,730 --> 04:37:43,830
However, through a council approved CUP, up to 50 additional feet of height may be requested and approved.

2914
04:37:45,550 --> 04:37:53,850
The 125V height for this structure is requested to maintain adequate service and reception in the central portion of the city.

2915
04:37:54,790 --> 04:38:06,210
This structure will serve as a replacement facility for an existing 180 foot height tall tower located 100 feet east of this site at the John Marshall High School.

2916
04:38:06,210 --> 04:38:12,330
the facility will likely eliminate future need for other monopoles in this immediate

2917
04:38:12,330 --> 04:38:18,330
vicinity subject approval of this request any future model pull within a half

2918
04:38:18,330 --> 04:38:24,210
mile of this site would need to demonstrate why this particular site would not meet their needs.

2919
04:38:24,990 --> 04:38:32,230
Should all three of this co-locating areas on this pull be used, the UDC does also require

2920
04:38:32,230 --> 04:38:39,050
that any other monopole that could be located in this general area, be no closer than 100,

2921
04:38:39,930 --> 04:38:45,340
1000 feet away at their July 22 meeting. The planning commission did recommend approval of this

2922
04:38:46,190 --> 04:38:51,290
by unanimous 7-0 vote. And that's my presentation. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

2923
04:38:51,630 --> 04:38:55,650
Thank you, Mr. McGill. Is there an applicant for this item?

2924
04:38:56,190 --> 04:39:00,850
Please step forward, state your name, and you have up to 10 minutes, but you don't have to use them all.

2925
04:39:01,410 --> 04:39:08,130
My name is Matt Coenard. I represent UCI. I would say the same thing that I set up the planning

2926
04:39:08,130 --> 04:39:13,890
commission as the staff report is very complete. I'm happy to reiterate anything, or if you

2927
04:39:13,890 --> 04:39:18,710
have any specific questions, I'd be happy to answer those as well.

2928
04:39:19,710 --> 04:39:26,030
We will invite you back after the public hearing and see if my colleagues have any questions for you.

2929
04:39:26,030 --> 04:39:26,990
you can sit down now.

2930
04:39:27,210 --> 04:39:28,310
Okay, thank you.

2931
04:39:28,510 --> 04:39:29,530
This is a public hearing.

2932
04:39:29,530 --> 04:39:32,550
Anyone wishing to be heard on this item please step forward.

2933
04:39:33,170 --> 04:39:34,430
This is a public hearing.

2934
04:39:36,210 --> 04:39:37,690
Anyone wishing to be heard on this item please step forward.

2935
04:39:38,070 --> 04:39:39,670
This is a public hearing.

2936
04:39:39,710 --> 04:39:42,730
Anyone wishing to be heard on this item please step forward.

2937
04:39:43,530 --> 04:39:43,650
Forward.

2938
04:39:43,650 --> 04:39:46,250
Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing

2939
04:39:46,250 --> 04:39:49,470
and invite the applicant back up for any closing comments.

2940
04:39:52,390 --> 04:39:53,950
Does anybody have any questions?

2941
04:39:53,950 --> 04:39:55,870
Does anybody have any questions?

2942
04:40:00,000 --> 04:40:05,880
We need to turn down. It's the lease has been terminated. It will be coming down at some point.

2943
04:40:06,280 --> 04:40:25,640
That is what we've been told soon. This is a pretty complicated project that's going on right now. There's a lot of things that are going on that are just sort of gray areas and everybody's a little bit in the weeds. Right now there is no viable alternate solution. That's what this is.

2944
04:40:25,640 --> 04:40:30,100
So, so once this tower is done and completed is the other tower coming down.

2945
04:40:30,420 --> 04:40:36,320
That's my understanding. Yes. It's not ours to take down. We just know we just know the

2946
04:40:36,320 --> 04:40:44,890
circumstances of it. Okay. Any further questions on this? Is there a motion on this item?

2947
04:40:44,950 --> 04:40:52,170
I'll move to adopt the resolution approving a conditional use permit CD-2026-011-CUP by

2948
04:40:52,170 --> 04:40:59,010
you see I tower for the construction of a wireless communications facility consisting of 125 foot

2949
04:40:59,010 --> 04:41:08,510
monopole tower and ancillary equipment in L1 zoning district. Motion made by council member

2950
04:41:08,510 --> 04:41:15,390
keen and seconded by council member Fredericks you could sit down sir. Any further information to share?

2951
04:41:15,390 --> 04:41:25,540
All in favor say I I post a nay motion a motion passes six to one with council member Palmer voting nay

2952
04:41:26,430 --> 04:41:27,710
Thank you

2953
04:41:27,710 --> 04:41:30,030
We will now move on to

2954
04:41:30,890 --> 04:41:31,630
G4

2955
04:41:31,630 --> 04:41:40,450
Which is our 2027 master fee schedule mr. Aaron Parrish actually I can take that one mr. President if that's already going ahead

2956
04:41:40,450 --> 04:41:44,010
Mr. President, Council members, Mayor Norton, Administrator Zelms.

2957
04:41:44,610 --> 04:41:46,970
As part of the budget process, before you tonight,

2958
04:41:47,150 --> 04:41:48,910
is the 2020 Southern Master Fees Schedule.

2959
04:41:49,270 --> 04:41:52,410
Some of the salient components of this year's schedule.

2960
04:41:53,210 --> 04:41:56,330
32 fees have been removed, seven fees have been added,

2961
04:41:56,630 --> 04:41:58,230
the Community Development Building Division,

2962
04:41:59,330 --> 04:42:02,590
some of which were transferred from their housing code update.

2963
04:42:03,110 --> 04:42:07,810
Then there were some fire-related fees implemented

2964
04:42:07,810 --> 04:42:14,490
for non-emergency, non-mission critical services based on the most recent current FEMA equipment

2965
04:42:14,490 --> 04:42:19,130
rates, which is a similar methodology that we use for the public works that's currently

2966
04:42:19,770 --> 04:42:22,590
within the fee schedule as well.

2967
04:42:23,510 --> 04:42:27,470
So with that, you see a clean version of a red line version that shows the changes and with

2968
04:42:27,470 --> 04:42:29,330
that me and my colleagues can stand for any questions.

2969
04:42:30,110 --> 04:42:31,070
Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

2970
04:42:31,650 --> 04:42:33,510
We may have questions after the public hearing.

2971
04:42:33,510 --> 04:42:37,070
Uh, uh, uh, I will now open the public hearings.

2972
04:42:37,230 --> 04:42:39,550
Is there anyone wishing to be heard on this item?

2973
04:42:40,410 --> 04:42:42,610
Is there anyone wishing to be heard on this item?

2974
04:42:43,770 --> 04:42:45,830
Anyone wishing to be heard on this item?

2975
04:42:46,130 --> 04:42:47,930
Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing.

2976
04:42:48,090 --> 04:42:52,030
Are there questions from council members to staff?

2977
04:42:53,050 --> 04:42:55,750
Seeing no questions is there a motion on this side?

2978
04:42:56,090 --> 04:42:56,150
Yes.

2979
04:42:56,370 --> 04:43:01,290
I'll make a motion approving an ordinance establishing the 2027 master schedule

2980
04:43:01,290 --> 04:43:05,250
direct in the city attorney office to repair an ordinance for the first reading on September

2981
04:43:05,250 --> 04:43:13,270
21, 2026. Motion made by council member Fredrex is there second. Seconded by council member

2982
04:43:13,270 --> 04:43:22,110
wall any further add all in favor say I post a name motion passes. Moving on to our reports

2983
04:43:22,110 --> 04:43:29,630
and recommendations H1 is wood debris management operations update. This is an item that was vetoed

2984
04:43:29,630 --> 04:43:35,390
Mayor Norton, the veto automatically places the item back on the next agenda for consideration

2985
04:43:35,390 --> 04:43:42,510
to override a veto, the item must pass with a super majority of the body voting eight,

2986
04:43:43,330 --> 04:43:49,870
I, five, regardless of a forum, the item may only be considered as it was passed, no amendments

2987
04:43:49,870 --> 04:43:52,930
may be made, Mayor Norton.

2988
04:43:55,440 --> 04:43:56,520
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2989
04:43:58,800 --> 04:44:03,260
So as I've mentioned in my veto node, I support this project.

2990
04:44:03,980 --> 04:44:07,660
I think it belongs in the 2027 budget.

2991
04:44:08,860 --> 04:44:13,580
One of my hesitations with this and one of the things I shared at the last meeting

2992
04:44:13,580 --> 04:44:16,320
and maybe not as well as I should have.

2993
04:44:16,840 --> 04:44:22,860
I view contingencies as for unexpected items that come at the end of the year.

2994
04:44:22,860 --> 04:44:34,400
We are very close to the end of that year, we in fact are in the next month going to be discussing the next budget and it seems to me this would be an appropriate discussion for that in the first place.

2995
04:44:36,280 --> 04:44:52,320
Secondly, I think when an item comes forward like this and it happens several other times since I've been mayor, it disallows a council to be able to think about its priorities and the things it may want to spend that contingency on.

2996
04:44:52,320 --> 04:44:55,400
as opposed to a single item that is brought forward.

2997
04:45:00,000 --> 04:45:14,000
Kind of out of the blue. And so, for me, we have had at least two items in the last month that I would have loved a discussion about should the contingency be spent on this.

2998
04:45:14,900 --> 04:45:27,380
I'll hate to get into the controversy of Elton Hills Drive. But one of the questions was asked, could we put in protected by claims, and we were told that will cost $150,000, and that's not part of our budget or whatever amount.

2999
04:45:29,580 --> 04:45:30,300
The

3000
04:45:33,080 --> 04:45:46,140
item that's going to come up later this actually the next item is another item where with extra funding we could have considered alternative routes for a bike path.

3001
04:45:46,840 --> 04:45:50,140
There are multiple things that this board cares about.

3002
04:45:50,140 --> 04:45:55,920
And when we have an item like this, it gets approved, if you determine that a contingency shouldn't

3003
04:45:55,920 --> 04:46:05,200
just be held for emergency, it should be the items that you select should be part of a larger

3004
04:46:05,200 --> 04:46:07,780
picture and not just a single item brought for it.

3005
04:46:07,840 --> 04:46:08,800
That is my belief.

3006
04:46:09,160 --> 04:46:14,420
So I was very uncomfortable to have an item brought forward that wasn't an emergency that in

3007
04:46:14,420 --> 04:46:18,880
my going over and talking to all the neighbors that have moved into the home said we don't

3008
04:46:18,880 --> 04:46:48,940
here, any noise from halfway, it's not an issue, and I had been led to believe or at least that was what I heard is that it was loud and we would have to, you know, this, one of the reasons we want to do this is to tamp down noise. The neighbor said that the construction noise of the homes being built around them was a far bigger issue than anything that they had heard and these are literally the next, there's a trees and the next thing beyond those trees is halfway and they said they don't hear anything from there.

3009
04:46:48,940 --> 04:47:11,520
So, as I went home after the last meeting with two items, only two items on the agenda and two items that had a lot of controversy and a council member missing, it was my determination that we bring this back and have the full board vote again for the reasons that I listed.

3010
04:47:11,520 --> 04:47:13,800
Thank you, Mayor.

3011
04:47:17,560 --> 04:47:19,080
I'll speak to it.

3012
04:47:19,440 --> 04:47:20,460
I agree with you, Mayor.

3013
04:47:21,220 --> 04:47:41,120
When it comes to the contingency fund that best practices are to have both staff and council members to feel they can come forward with projects to use the contingency funds.

3014
04:47:41,120 --> 04:47:49,220
I do however look at the contingency fund as something that gives our staff the flexibility

3015
04:47:49,220 --> 04:47:57,760
to use not just in an emergency, but when situations change when there is a new direction

3016
04:47:57,760 --> 04:48:07,660
that a project may come before us and I think I definitely support this project.

3017
04:48:07,660 --> 04:48:17,040
I think I heard you say you also support the goals of this project so I agree that best practices

3018
04:48:17,040 --> 04:48:27,020
are not to use the contingency fund but we do have a contingency fund and it is tied to the

3019
04:48:27,020 --> 04:48:31,200
is it? It's late. You know what?

3020
04:48:32,940 --> 04:48:37,340
Do you want me to clarify how the contingency is built into the budget?

3021
04:48:38,320 --> 04:48:44,220
So annually, you're existing lobby carries a million dollars each year, and multiple times throughout the year.

3022
04:48:44,300 --> 04:48:47,400
Sometimes staff will come forward with something based on things they've heard from Council.

3023
04:48:47,500 --> 04:48:52,380
We've been working on this half a way, site for at least three years, perhaps longer.

3024
04:48:52,380 --> 04:48:59,320
And so as that the dynamics have changed throughout the how we've been looking at where the project might go

3025
04:48:59,320 --> 04:49:06,880
Where we might be able to move the commercial site part of their way from development. That is actively happening there

3026
04:49:06,880 --> 04:49:14,300
This is how it has developed over time. There's been emerging changes in where and how that could go the alternative would be that you would either need to add

3027
04:49:14,300 --> 04:49:20,940
$350,000 maybe more depending on the timing of this project oftentimes the cost of them go up

3028
04:49:21,680 --> 04:49:32,820
to your 2027 level or find a pathway to agreement of four or five of you to reduce $350,000 worth of the budget if you wanted to stay at the current proposed level.

3029
04:49:33,040 --> 04:49:47,520
That is at 5.59% increase year over year, not the rate. So the contingency serves as a, as you have stated, an opportunity to bring items forward to the council that we have typically don't bring those forward without having been working on them.

3030
04:49:47,520 --> 04:49:59,960
And you still at the end of the year if the contingency isn't utilized whatever is remaining goes towards the 42% reserve and that 42% reserve from a governmental finance officers accounting standard and from a state.

3031
04:50:00,000 --> 04:50:05,320
The standard is where it still provides you that buffer for any type of emergent issue coming

3032
04:50:05,320 --> 04:50:09,600
for pandemic, a financial recession, things of that nature.

3033
04:50:10,160 --> 04:50:13,720
So the actual emergency reserve is your general fund reserve.

3034
04:50:15,510 --> 04:50:16,330
Thank you.

3035
04:50:16,410 --> 04:50:20,230
Administrator Zams for clarifying what I was trying to say.

3036
04:50:21,190 --> 04:50:22,130
Council member Wall.

3037
04:50:22,810 --> 04:50:28,850
And I might say just in a little bit different way, although I think Mr. Schuberg was going

3038
04:50:28,850 --> 04:50:36,030
down that road, my understanding of contingency is not always a emergency. I would more

3039
04:50:36,030 --> 04:50:41,250
call it a change order, and I think this is a change order, and we use contingencies

3040
04:50:41,250 --> 04:50:47,850
and construction projects. It's to cover change orders or things that are different than

3041
04:50:47,850 --> 04:50:54,090
what we had planned. So I'm not unhappy using that 350 rather than adding 350. The only additional

3042
04:50:54,090 --> 04:51:05,270
I would say is we as a city have invested money in that particular housing development through our sales tax money and I think it would be good to support that

3043
04:51:07,310 --> 04:51:10,130
Anyone else wanting to be a council member

3044
04:51:10,130 --> 04:51:18,930
Key I'm just going to put it the moment I think we have to I mean our only action is to put the exact same motion exactly okay so adopting a two part resolution

3045
04:51:19,810 --> 04:51:26,010
authorizing preliminary approval of relocation of commercial operations, and authorizing preliminary

3046
04:51:26,690 --> 04:51:33,050
support to the funding request of $350,000 in contingency funds for the cost associated.

3047
04:51:33,630 --> 04:51:37,590
Motion has been made by Council Member Keen and seconded by Council Member Frederick

3048
04:51:37,590 --> 04:51:42,390
saying more to add Council Member Miller.

3049
04:51:42,450 --> 04:51:42,590
Sure.

3050
04:51:43,070 --> 04:51:43,890
I'll just take for the record.

3051
04:51:44,070 --> 04:51:46,890
I mean, my position hasn't changed since the last time this came up.

3052
04:51:46,890 --> 04:51:55,190
My gripe with the way this is come is that it was a council update with no identified funding

3053
04:51:55,190 --> 04:52:01,090
source across and then the first time it comes to the open meeting to our discussion, the recommendation

3054
04:52:01,090 --> 04:52:06,170
of a funding source, not a consideration of possible funding sources with a recommendation

3055
04:52:06,170 --> 04:52:11,610
to use contingency and then this doesn't allow us to compare alternative projects in the

3056
04:52:11,610 --> 04:52:19,090
So I don't plan to support this as I did in the first time, but I understand, welcome to our last meeting, Council Member Wall.

3057
04:52:19,290 --> 04:52:21,510
Get to litigate both items.

3058
04:52:24,170 --> 04:52:26,070
Council Member Fredericks.

3059
04:52:27,820 --> 04:52:28,680
Don't you have us?

3060
04:52:28,920 --> 04:52:29,720
I hope I'm good.

3061
04:52:30,260 --> 04:52:31,460
Are you moving your pen?

3062
04:52:31,620 --> 04:52:33,120
It looks like you want to read the answer.

3063
04:52:33,940 --> 04:52:36,120
If I were an option here, you would have bought everything.

3064
04:52:36,800 --> 04:52:37,240
I do.

3065
04:52:38,420 --> 04:52:39,540
Council Member Doran, go ahead.

3066
04:52:39,680 --> 04:52:42,800
I'm also going to remain consistent and not,

3067
04:52:42,800 --> 04:52:51,580
support the motion, Mr. Councilmember Miller, very well expressed both last time and this time.

3068
04:52:52,300 --> 04:52:56,620
His rationale and I agree with his rationale, so I will not be supporting the motion.

3069
04:52:58,980 --> 04:53:00,000
Councilmember Palmer.

3070
04:53:01,520 --> 04:53:09,240
I have an excited how I'm going to vote because it's not an unexpected expense,

3071
04:53:12,340 --> 04:53:14,300
and this is something we can budget for next year.

3072
04:53:14,300 --> 04:53:20,460
I really have a problem with us, not waiting until emergencies or something that's unexpected.

3073
04:53:22,060 --> 04:53:26,460
One of my examples would be Cook Park Pickleball that was something that came up last

3074
04:53:26,460 --> 04:53:32,020
year we used, Consentancy Funds for that, that came up unexpectedly and hopefully this next

3075
04:53:32,020 --> 04:53:36,820
week is going to be open, it will not have happened if we didn't use Consentancy Funds.

3076
04:53:36,820 --> 04:53:40,780
this would probably happen next January in our budget.

3077
04:53:41,400 --> 04:53:45,140
And so moving to roll call, yes.

3078
04:53:45,520 --> 04:53:51,580
Sounds like Mr. Yeser may be able to clarify how this became an emergent issue.

3079
04:53:51,720 --> 04:53:56,620
Yeah, thanks, Council President Schubering. Members of the Council Mayor, I do want to clarify

3080
04:53:56,620 --> 04:54:01,660
that. I appreciate the opportunity. The reason why we're saying it's unexpected, certainly

3081
04:54:01,660 --> 04:54:06,380
the project as Administrator Zones pointed out has been in conversation for some time.

3082
04:54:06,380 --> 04:54:17,100
The change that was unexpected outside of the budget processes previously we had been working towards a partnership with the county utilizing their site where we did not think that we would be bearing this much cost.

3083
04:54:17,340 --> 04:54:25,580
And so that's what has changed about the project since we had been talking about it over the years. So that's the reason for the ask

3084
04:54:27,690 --> 04:54:30,470
clerk case. Please call the roll.

3085
04:54:30,470 --> 04:54:32,510
Council Member Keen.

3086
04:54:32,730 --> 04:54:32,850
Hi.

3087
04:54:33,670 --> 04:54:34,550
Council Member Miller.

3088
04:54:35,790 --> 04:54:36,550
Council Member Wall.

3089
04:54:37,830 --> 04:54:38,630
Council Member Fredericks.

3090
04:54:39,810 --> 04:54:40,610
Council Member Palmer.

3091
04:54:43,130 --> 04:54:43,330
Aye.

3092
04:54:44,610 --> 04:54:45,410
Council Member Dwayne.

3093
04:54:45,650 --> 04:54:46,070
Aye.

3094
04:54:46,570 --> 04:54:47,650
Council President Schubert.

3095
04:54:48,090 --> 04:54:48,490
Aye.

3096
04:54:49,230 --> 04:54:51,230
Motion passes five to two.

3097
04:54:51,710 --> 04:54:59,970
Our next item is H2, which is the Willow Creek Regional Trail Feasibility Study and Professional Services Agreement for Final Dec.

3098
04:55:00,000 --> 04:55:06,500
Our last meeting, as she mentioned, it was our only two items. And as I said before, it automatically

3099
04:55:06,500 --> 04:55:14,980
places it on our agenda and to override we must pass with five. And the item may only be considered

3100
04:55:14,980 --> 04:55:24,380
as it was passed. No amendments may be made. Mayor Norton. Thank you. This was the second of a

3101
04:55:24,380 --> 04:55:30,360
difficult discussion that we had at the last meeting and this is when I had been

3102
04:55:30,360 --> 04:55:39,200
involved with prior and I shared some of this at the last meeting as well. I had the

3103
04:55:39,200 --> 04:55:45,840
family had been here before when the site was brought forward. We moved ahead and did some

3104
04:55:45,840 --> 04:55:54,320
testing on their property that they did not want to have but we did it anyway. I worked with

3105
04:55:55,700 --> 04:56:01,560
Dylan, in particular, met with the family and they shared their concern about not wanting

3106
04:56:01,560 --> 04:56:07,500
their property, bifurcated with a trail and could we please find alternatives.

3107
04:56:10,600 --> 04:56:16,540
And again, this is where we have to make choices as a council about how we decide to spend

3108
04:56:16,540 --> 04:56:26,120
money. I do support and have supported putting a trail out to connect Willow Creek and

3109
04:56:26,120 --> 04:56:29,940
out further in the past. This has been talked about for as long as I can remember.

3110
04:56:30,780 --> 04:56:38,210
And I do support that concept, but I do not support a condemnation process and

3111
04:56:38,210 --> 04:56:44,150
moving a trail, putting a recreational trail on someone's personal property. They live

3112
04:56:44,150 --> 04:56:50,770
the country for a reason, they purchased a homestead out there, they have a pond and land and

3113
04:56:51,430 --> 04:56:59,230
they love their life and they don't want a trail through the center of it. And so I was frustrated

3114
04:56:59,230 --> 04:57:06,490
and that we did have an alternative brought for that was not seriously considered. At least it wasn't.

3115
04:57:06,610 --> 04:57:11,390
It didn't appear to be seriously considered as an alternative because of the cost and again we have

3116
04:57:11,390 --> 04:57:16,410
contingency funding for unexpected delays, and we had a discussion at the time about going

3117
04:57:16,410 --> 04:57:21,970
out for potential grants or finding other funding or approaching the county or township

3118
04:57:21,970 --> 04:57:22,470
or whatever.

3119
04:57:22,770 --> 04:57:25,090
There are other discussions that came up at the meeting.

3120
04:57:25,670 --> 04:57:32,450
I have since talked to some of our legislators who would be interested in helping us if we

3121
04:57:32,450 --> 04:57:34,310
need a deferral on a timeline.

3122
04:57:34,610 --> 04:57:39,830
They would be interested in going back and asking for an increased amount based on what we

3123
04:57:39,830 --> 04:57:49,050
found, which is it will cost another million plus four, I think, 1.4, 1.3, that they would entertain

3124
04:57:49,050 --> 04:57:55,130
the idea of talking about bringing forward and asking for additional funds at the state level.

3125
04:57:55,690 --> 04:58:01,010
And in fact, one of them said that's not become all that unusual because the costs have gone up so

3126
04:58:01,010 --> 04:58:09,190
much on so many projects that that would be a reasonable request. So I am not interested in

3127
04:58:10,070 --> 04:58:17,550
personally, I cannot sleep over the idea that we would be taking doing something to property

3128
04:58:17,550 --> 04:58:23,450
owners that truly don't want it and have asked us not to do it and if there were no other

3129
04:58:23,450 --> 04:58:27,430
alternatives, there was a long the board of a property, it would be one thing but neither of those

3130
04:58:27,430 --> 04:58:31,890
are true. We have other alternatives and perhaps there are even more we haven't thought of. It would

3131
04:58:31,890 --> 04:58:37,470
be my preference and the reason I vetoed it is because I want us to find those and not

3132
04:58:38,370 --> 04:58:42,490
to go through a condemnation and put a trail through some of this personal property.

3133
04:58:43,590 --> 04:58:44,090
Thank you, Mayor.

3134
04:58:44,590 --> 04:58:45,470
Council member Miller.

3135
04:58:46,570 --> 04:58:50,750
I emailed staff some questions and advance of this and just want to get those on the record.

3136
04:58:51,490 --> 04:58:58,390
So just if the veto were overturned, what council of thruvolves would remain before the city acquired any property interest,

3137
04:58:59,050 --> 04:59:03,270
and is imminent domain action proposed or authorized by this vote?

3138
04:59:06,960 --> 04:59:07,980
Mr. Dumbrowsky.

3139
04:59:07,980 --> 04:59:21,660
Good evening, Mayor President. Members of the council, this vote would just identify the trail alignment that future action would need to occur with the council to initiate property acquisition.

3140
04:59:22,800 --> 04:59:28,160
At that point, you do identify the potential for the use of a 90 day quick take.

3141
04:59:28,160 --> 04:59:37,360
If it got to the point where we couldn't agree with different property owners and needed to go to court there would be an additional action the council would need to take to

3142
04:59:38,220 --> 04:59:41,440
File in the district court for a condemnation proceeding

3143
04:59:42,060 --> 04:59:49,560
So my second question is how common is this process what was passed at our last meeting in

3144
04:59:50,160 --> 04:59:50,520
Trail

3145
04:59:52,140 --> 04:59:53,340
Efforts in

3146
04:59:53,340 --> 04:59:55,480
For example, the Chester Wood Strail Extension.

3147
05:00:00,000 --> 05:00:09,740
Or has it been historically? The most recent project we completed would have been the Chesterwoods extension from Eastwood Gulf, of course, out to 50th Avenue southeast.

3148
05:00:10,580 --> 05:00:18,180
That is a similar path. Overland goes through different properties. We worked with the property owners along that project.

3149
05:00:19,060 --> 05:00:28,960
Part of the, when we get to acquisition process, if we have an alignment, part of that process in acquiring land, easements in this case,

3150
05:00:28,960 --> 05:00:36,060
is there's negotiation that could be you're taking two of my trees I want two more trees planted

3151
05:00:36,060 --> 05:00:42,200
as part of the project just everything's up for negotiation at that point as we move into that process.

3152
05:00:42,560 --> 05:00:49,300
So related to Mayor Norton statement about where this parcel is located could you talk

3153
05:00:49,300 --> 05:00:55,400
about the bonding dollars that were authorized with the state ledger legislature for sewer expansion in

3154
05:00:55,400 --> 05:01:01,260
these Rochester and how that impacts city growth and development in the broader Southeast

3155
05:01:01,260 --> 05:01:09,680
region of town. Generally speaking, you have this area, the shops on main area and the subdivisions

3156
05:01:09,680 --> 05:01:18,160
that are south of Highway 52, the Highway Axe is a barrier to people who cannot drive, choose not to

3157
05:01:18,160 --> 05:01:25,880
live cannot afford to drive this path. The goal is obviously to provide access.

3158
05:01:27,400 --> 05:01:34,240
Both people, they're getting, say, into downtown and vice versa, to access whether it's

3159
05:01:34,240 --> 05:01:39,620
recreating, getting to the future sports complex. Game Haven Park is what the bonding

3160
05:01:40,160 --> 05:01:45,000
money was approved for. There's a very clearly identified corridor that we're working

3161
05:01:45,000 --> 05:01:51,720
within. And there's only one place to cross the highway that's safe. And as the city engineer,

3162
05:01:52,820 --> 05:01:56,960
I know these are not always easy decisions, but we need to bring back the most feasible option.

3163
05:01:57,060 --> 05:02:02,280
We looked at county one. We would have to reconstruct the entire county, the ditches,

3164
05:02:03,540 --> 05:02:08,760
provide an urban section, the length of that corridor going all the way out, traveling up the hill

3165
05:02:08,760 --> 05:02:14,980
to the roundabout. And then back over on another county road, it just is priced us out of that

3166
05:02:14,980 --> 05:02:21,040
is an alternative. You can't go down Broadway, 65 miles per hour as you pass Highway 52 and

3167
05:02:21,040 --> 05:02:29,900
having to try to navigate a maze of signals and the exit ramps on ramps with the two highways

3168
05:02:29,900 --> 05:02:37,200
at that interchange. So really it's looking at two ways to go along the creek that we presented

3169
05:02:37,200 --> 05:02:44,280
in the feasibility study. We did also during early stage of the study look at going east of the

3170
05:02:44,860 --> 05:02:49,560
property. There's about 90 feet of elevation difference. So create a

3171
05:02:49,560 --> 05:02:54,080
challenge isn't being able to even make the ADA grades work where we were

3172
05:02:54,080 --> 05:02:59,920
having to carve out these 25 foot cuts and sort of this cavern you'd be

3173
05:02:59,920 --> 05:03:03,560
walking and biking through just to make the grades work and tremendous amount of

3174
05:03:03,560 --> 05:03:07,160
earth work and costs. So ruled that out and we're left with these two that were

3175
05:03:07,160 --> 05:03:11,980
presented in the feasibility report. We're going to present to you the most

3176
05:03:11,980 --> 05:03:19,500
feasible option, which with the funding we have was the one we recommended, and in addition

3177
05:03:19,500 --> 05:03:24,360
to the difference and construction costs of the two alternatives, what would other cost

3178
05:03:24,360 --> 05:03:29,160
differences be and design work and ongoing maintenance work of the two alternatives.

3179
05:03:29,740 --> 05:03:33,020
So the current design proposal was for the recommended alternative.

3180
05:03:33,120 --> 05:03:37,620
If the council chooses to go a different direction, we will need to get an updated proposal

3181
05:03:37,620 --> 05:03:43,380
from our consultant, the line of attention hearing, then there's the ongoing maintenance

3182
05:03:43,380 --> 05:03:50,000
costs talking with our parks, teammates, and thinking about winter maintenance and just

3183
05:03:50,000 --> 05:03:56,560
replacement of a boardwalk. Those numbers, we're looking at 10 to 15,000 dollars annually.

3184
05:03:57,140 --> 05:04:04,640
Let's say we need to replace the boardwalk 30 to 40 years from now, just using inflation, we're

3185
05:04:04,640 --> 05:04:13,220
looking at a couple million dollars in the future, as compared to just a paved betuminous path

3186
05:04:13,220 --> 05:04:21,960
on going crack ceiling and just different preservation plus the plowing in the winter time.

3187
05:04:22,440 --> 05:04:25,680
That's more in the $1,000 annually.

3188
05:04:27,500 --> 05:04:33,480
You said, Pearson, the elevated section would have a 30 to 40 year useful life.

3189
05:04:33,480 --> 05:04:36,300
what is the use of life of a paved section?

3190
05:04:37,260 --> 05:04:41,260
We would try similar to our roadways to get 50 years out of that

3191
05:04:41,260 --> 05:04:45,140
with the ongoing preservation work,

3192
05:04:45,600 --> 05:04:46,780
like we do with our roadways.

3193
05:04:46,920 --> 05:04:48,780
And what would the replacement cost of that be?

3194
05:04:48,880 --> 05:04:50,400
50, 60 years from now.

3195
05:04:51,720 --> 05:04:54,080
I don't have that number right in front of me,

3196
05:04:54,160 --> 05:04:55,920
but it's not going to be 2 million.

3197
05:05:03,590 --> 05:05:22,090
I've got a question on kind of the, so you, and your team did due diligence to look at several options, numerous options, is that correct?

3198
05:05:22,090 --> 05:05:31,710
correct. And so you came up with the two here and can you talk about from a kind of view

3199
05:05:31,710 --> 05:05:41,430
shed or screening the differences between the two with there is the one that goes through

3200
05:05:41,430 --> 05:05:46,770
the property owner's property and then there's the one that's on the edge of the property as far

3201
05:05:46,770 --> 05:05:53,590
is the ability to screen that to for the neighboring properties.

3202
05:05:54,090 --> 05:05:54,510
Owners.

3203
05:05:54,870 --> 05:06:00,870
Well, I mean, like I said, when we're going through acquisition and negotiating what the project

3204
05:06:00,870 --> 05:06:07,450
looks like, like on the Chester Woods extension, all of the properties we were bisecting

3205
05:06:07,450 --> 05:06:12,310
along that corridor, we added a fence along each side of the path, we worked with those

3206
05:06:12,310 --> 05:06:19,070
need to get farm equipment in and out to increase the pavement depth and certain locations.

3207
05:06:19,730 --> 05:06:22,910
We've provided gates in certain areas, worked with the property owners.

3208
05:06:23,830 --> 05:06:28,870
So with this project, for example, we could talk about a potentially offense that provides

3209
05:06:28,870 --> 05:06:32,670
a more of a screening benefit than just a barrier.

3210
05:06:34,550 --> 05:06:40,170
But between the two, I mean, you have the wood, you're in the woods, Council President.

3211
05:06:40,170 --> 05:06:49,810
So there's going to be trees that provide some of that screening just with the natural corridor that we're looking at with either of these two alternatives.

3212
05:06:50,670 --> 05:06:53,170
Thank you. Council member Doring.

3213
05:06:55,750 --> 05:06:55,850
No.

3214
05:06:56,210 --> 05:07:00,950
I just have a point of inquiry for our council chair.

3215
05:07:01,590 --> 05:07:06,710
I know a member of the public wanted to speak about this bike path during public comment.

3216
05:07:06,710 --> 05:07:12,070
I think there was some miscommunication where that person was invited to have a seat, because

3217
05:07:12,070 --> 05:07:16,030
there was a assumption they were going to talk about G1, wondering if it's appropriate

3218
05:07:16,030 --> 05:07:22,590
to invite that particular member of the public who sat here now for four and a half hours,

3219
05:07:22,810 --> 05:07:23,870
or three and a half hours.

3220
05:07:23,950 --> 05:07:24,310
Comfortable.

3221
05:07:24,390 --> 05:07:30,530
I'm proposing that we suspend the rules and allow one member of the public who chronic

3222
05:07:30,530 --> 05:07:37,470
to speak on this item during open comment period, and somehow got steered, probably by me,

3223
05:07:38,130 --> 05:07:39,370
to the G1.

3224
05:07:40,350 --> 05:07:41,810
So that's what I proposed.

3225
05:07:42,490 --> 05:07:42,750
Council.

3226
05:07:43,430 --> 05:07:48,470
So we have a motion to suspend the rules for one member of the public to speak.

3227
05:07:49,070 --> 05:07:53,990
The motion has been made by council member Doring and seconded by council member Palmer.

3228
05:07:54,290 --> 05:07:57,650
We do need five to do this.

3229
05:07:57,650 --> 05:08:05,490
five to do this, anyone need to speak to it, all in favor say I, I post a name, it passes

3230
05:08:05,490 --> 05:08:18,510
unanimously. So with that, we can invite, yes, I remember your name, Girl Spurker, come up

3231
05:08:18,510 --> 05:08:21,990
and you have two minutes to speak.

3232
05:08:26,400 --> 05:08:29,280
You can have someone come up and help you.

3233
05:08:40,210 --> 05:08:41,250
Yes, and

3234
05:08:41,250 --> 05:08:44,730
We just discussed that and I really appreciate my colleague

3235
05:08:45,450 --> 05:08:47,330
Bringing that up. So go ahead

3236
05:08:48,870 --> 05:08:53,290
We have seen that. Yes, yes, you see the alternative routes absolutely

3237
05:08:54,470 --> 05:08:57,310
This is already placed in public

3238
05:08:57,310 --> 05:09:02,170
Domain already to get you over to whistle-bake use the school

3239
05:09:02,170 --> 05:09:11,230
I drew this out. She'll doesn't know what I drew. She just kind of saw. I'm here for more short alternative routes that were never ever looked at

3240
05:09:11,250 --> 05:09:22,290
due diligence was not done by the city engineer to make sure he was spending our money, my money, too, the appropriate way.

3241
05:09:23,350 --> 05:09:26,930
He just wants to get as fast as he can to this new complex.

3242
05:09:27,530 --> 05:09:29,030
They're bypassing the school.

3243
05:09:29,110 --> 05:09:38,410
Everything that they say that they want to do with this project so that the people can use this path to get to the other side of 52.

3244
05:09:38,410 --> 05:09:45,970
I'm all, I understand it to be honest, but they do not need to come across my property in that pot with so many alternatives.

3245
05:09:46,430 --> 05:09:53,030
Thank you, Mr. Lumis. I, because this goes for her has that this is her time.

3246
05:09:53,030 --> 05:09:59,970
We just wanted to know, Jessie wanted to know why they didn't go for the west side.

3247
05:10:00,000 --> 05:10:15,340
That is the west side. That is the west side. Okay. And then, plus, when you're talking about somebody's land, if you want to get it, how come no ones ever said how much money that they could receive for the land? Like are we talking?

3248
05:10:16,020 --> 05:10:27,000
You know, because some of the parts of the city and they're out in the country, they go by the feet. And so, you know, maybe you want to give Pat 2 million dollars.

3249
05:10:27,000 --> 05:10:29,700
I mean, I don't know what's in your budget.

3250
05:10:30,460 --> 05:10:36,020
Maybe that's a big number, but I know the town is changing

3251
05:10:36,760 --> 05:10:40,600
all the time and they're selling the land by the foot.

3252
05:10:41,040 --> 05:10:44,820
So maybe if you, because how come no number has been set?

3253
05:10:45,580 --> 05:10:47,280
Will address that after you're done speaking?

3254
05:10:47,540 --> 05:10:48,900
We'll ask our staff that.

3255
05:10:49,200 --> 05:10:53,080
And I know the loomuses have been there for over 50 years.

3256
05:10:53,080 --> 05:11:00,340
so it's generational and they've built up things for their grandkids to be out there in the pond and

3257
05:11:00,840 --> 05:11:06,500
all those things and I was just here to support because I know if you guys all had land out there,

3258
05:11:07,020 --> 05:11:14,200
you just want to keep it to yourself too. Thank you. We appreciate it. We appreciate you staying. Thank you.

3259
05:11:15,400 --> 05:11:23,540
Mr. Dumbarowski, can you speak to compensation to where that fits into the process?

3260
05:11:24,000 --> 05:11:24,080
Sure.

3261
05:11:24,440 --> 05:11:30,640
So the council has an authorised us to proceed with land acquisition once that would happen

3262
05:11:30,640 --> 05:11:31,420
if it happened.

3263
05:11:32,020 --> 05:11:38,760
That is when we need to hire an appraiser, establish a valuation, there's a process when

3264
05:11:38,760 --> 05:11:43,600
we make an offer, then the property owners can do their own independent appraisal, get reimbursed,

3265
05:11:43,600 --> 05:11:46,540
up to a certain amount for those for that appraisal.

3266
05:11:46,620 --> 05:11:53,140
It's all part of the negotiation process that we need to follow during acquisition procedures.

3267
05:11:55,000 --> 05:11:59,300
Council member Frank Rick's Mr. Dumbraowski.

3268
05:11:59,580 --> 05:12:04,020
This is a fun one, but I've had about a week to think about this after you brought up

3269
05:12:04,020 --> 05:12:08,020
the fence through the one that you're using to connect to Chester Woods.

3270
05:12:09,000 --> 05:12:12,660
The construction easement that go through there, yeah we put up a fence and that sounds

3271
05:12:12,660 --> 05:12:13,000
good.

3272
05:12:13,000 --> 05:12:15,740
but there's trees laying on about every other section

3273
05:12:15,740 --> 05:12:16,920
of that fence currently.

3274
05:12:17,820 --> 05:12:20,280
It's solid parsnip, it's solid buck thorn

3275
05:12:20,280 --> 05:12:22,960
and it's solid box elders, all three non-desirables.

3276
05:12:23,440 --> 05:12:26,180
It's almost impossible to mitigate that issue

3277
05:12:26,180 --> 05:12:27,880
now that that fence is there.

3278
05:12:28,360 --> 05:12:30,400
You know, you go spray in, you're hitting everything.

3279
05:12:31,000 --> 05:12:32,500
And now we just, it's just a mess.

3280
05:12:33,440 --> 05:12:36,380
I use that trail weekly multiple times.

3281
05:12:36,820 --> 05:12:39,340
It's a great trail, but don't go off the trail,

3282
05:12:39,360 --> 05:12:41,840
you're gonna itch or break out in boils, it's nuts.

3283
05:12:42,920 --> 05:12:47,580
So, it sounds good to put up a fence, but then how are you going to maintain that after it?

3284
05:12:47,660 --> 05:12:50,840
When there's nothing there, you can actually maintain the side and that construction

3285
05:12:50,840 --> 05:12:53,600
easement and take care of it.

3286
05:12:53,980 --> 05:12:58,780
I don't know if that fence keeps anybody older in any way, but that's my opinion.

3287
05:12:58,940 --> 05:13:03,200
And I wait and I sit and it's just, it's just another thing.

3288
05:13:06,190 --> 05:13:10,150
For any further discussion on this item, Council Member Palmer?

3289
05:13:10,150 --> 05:13:16,890
Yeah, I voted against doing this and I will not support over writing the video on this.

3290
05:13:16,970 --> 05:13:20,870
I think condemning the land is wrong.

3291
05:13:21,110 --> 05:13:24,290
There is an alternative to it and we need to do that.

3292
05:13:24,470 --> 05:13:25,510
I'm all in favor of the trail.

3293
05:13:25,650 --> 05:13:27,030
I think the trail is fantastic.

3294
05:13:27,390 --> 05:13:28,510
Go out to game Haven Park.

3295
05:13:28,870 --> 05:13:30,970
We've planned for it for a long period of time.

3296
05:13:31,410 --> 05:13:37,170
But I think this segment, one C, and the two, is doable and I think that's what we need

3297
05:13:37,170 --> 05:13:39,130
to be doing and focus on that.

3298
05:13:39,130 --> 05:13:45,790
I think going to court sounds great. It's going to cost a lot of money. It takes some more time than we really want to take so

3299
05:13:46,950 --> 05:13:57,050
It comes from our Fredericks. I believe that taking of land by government entities is for basically safety or emergency purposes only and I don't see this as either

3300
05:13:57,050 --> 05:14:01,030
I don't see this as either and I think we should reserve that right just for

3301
05:14:02,530 --> 05:14:05,190
Must situations. This isn't a must

3302
05:14:05,190 --> 05:14:08,530
So I'll stand by my boat as same as last week as well

3303
05:14:09,130 --> 05:14:18,970
Council Member Qual. Mr. Dubrovsky, is there much farther west route that's been suggested

3304
05:14:18,970 --> 05:14:23,670
here tonight? I don't have that in front of me, but I'm guessing it might be what was

3305
05:14:23,670 --> 05:14:31,590
shared after the first open house and trying to get to the whistle-binkies with Lake Business Park

3306
05:14:31,590 --> 05:14:36,250
area and work your way along the public streets,

3307
05:14:39,370 --> 05:14:41,970
which is challenging with the floodway that

3308
05:14:41,970 --> 05:14:45,610
we still need to navigate and have to construct boardwalks.

3309
05:14:45,710 --> 05:14:52,090
And then I'm not certain where we're going to acquire the space to get through that industrial

3310
05:14:52,090 --> 05:14:59,310
area. Those are all plated lots. So we're going through the same conversation and impacting

3311
05:14:59,310 --> 05:14:59,970
a business but

3312
05:15:01,440 --> 05:15:06,980
We're going to have similar conversations if that's the direction the council wants us to go. And we can, if that's the case.

3313
05:15:10,520 --> 05:15:11,160
Mayor Norton.

3314
05:15:16,530 --> 05:15:18,130
Thank you. Having trouble with my microphone.

3315
05:15:19,230 --> 05:15:29,830
I did just want to say, I struggle a little bit with a conversation about the extra upkeep on the wood options, because it is actually the option that we chose to do at a game haven.

3316
05:15:29,830 --> 05:15:32,090
So it is, we do have a history of choosing that option.

3317
05:15:33,810 --> 05:15:35,230
So I'll just say,

3318
05:15:37,280 --> 05:15:39,360
I don't think that holds water

3319
05:15:39,360 --> 05:15:40,620
with what we're doing.

3320
05:15:41,240 --> 05:15:44,320
But I am asking for you to uphold the veto.

3321
05:15:44,480 --> 05:15:46,760
I am asking that we find an alternative route,

3322
05:15:46,800 --> 05:15:49,600
whether that's the one we were just talking about,

3323
05:15:50,180 --> 05:15:52,920
or another way, I do not think it is fair

3324
05:15:52,920 --> 05:15:57,000
to take someone's property against their will

3325
05:15:57,000 --> 05:15:59,720
when there are other options and there are other options.

3326
05:16:03,490 --> 05:16:06,650
I saw you move your microphones, so I didn't know if you were going to speak.

3327
05:16:07,370 --> 05:16:07,790
Yeah, I can't.

3328
05:16:07,930 --> 05:16:07,990
I can't.

3329
05:16:08,630 --> 05:16:09,390
Can't go ahead.

3330
05:16:10,010 --> 05:16:15,070
And again, I just feel like we should just be dealing with the veto here instead of just

3331
05:16:15,070 --> 05:16:16,270
re-litigating the same thing.

3332
05:16:16,610 --> 05:16:20,910
We're all just just restating whether we, why we supported it or why we didn't.

3333
05:16:21,110 --> 05:16:26,030
The fact is, I think we're really here to see where if it's a, if we can overwrite

3334
05:16:26,030 --> 05:16:27,850
or overwrite the veto or not.

3335
05:16:27,850 --> 05:16:47,090
I did support the staff recommendation this because of the, and I do trust the assessment that it was a 1.3 million dollar hit to move to a segment to a and then, and then that would block the money that we had hope to use as an overpass it.

3336
05:16:47,410 --> 05:16:52,630
So I was thinking it was the public safety trade-offs here and this diviability of this route.

3337
05:16:52,630 --> 05:16:57,450
We've been talking about doing this since 2021 and we're on a little bit of a clock right now with

3338
05:16:57,450 --> 05:17:04,410
bonding from 2023. So this idea of sending the staff back to look at other options to me as

3339
05:17:04,410 --> 05:17:11,790
just folly. If we're, if we're, you know, we have used this idea of there's very set methods

3340
05:17:11,790 --> 05:17:16,350
of going through and you're getting easements. It's not like taking over people's property,

3341
05:17:16,830 --> 05:17:21,830
you're getting easements to do this. And they are contentious. And I think that's what our staff

3342
05:17:21,830 --> 05:17:26,930
said we need to give them the ability to get that started and see where it goes. Just to back

3343
05:17:26,930 --> 05:17:32,550
off on it, I'm not there at this point. I think this is a valid public interest in getting

3344
05:17:32,550 --> 05:17:37,310
this trail to work. And that's why I think why I'm trying to move this move this work forward

3345
05:17:37,990 --> 05:17:44,090
and public works as a comment. Go ahead, Mr. Neymar. Yeah. Thank you, Council President. We just

3346
05:17:44,090 --> 05:17:49,290
wanted to reiterate what Council member Keen had to say there that if we have to go back and draw

3347
05:17:49,290 --> 05:17:52,170
alternative routes, there could be schedule implications to this.

3348
05:17:52,410 --> 05:17:58,510
It's not a forever clock on the grant we have to mid-2028 to get the project done.

3349
05:17:59,030 --> 05:18:02,810
So, just as the council makes a decision, keep that in mind.

3350
05:18:03,210 --> 05:18:07,730
And so with that, I'll make a motion just to route the two-part motion again, accepting the feasibility

3351
05:18:07,730 --> 05:18:13,210
study and recommendation of the preferred route to advance the final design and authorizing

3352
05:18:13,210 --> 05:18:18,010
supplemental agreement in the amount of 418,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 dollars would

3353
05:18:18,010 --> 05:18:23,130
align and engineering for a final design for the proposed trail.

3354
05:18:23,710 --> 05:18:25,710
I'm motion made by Council Member Keenan.

3355
05:18:25,910 --> 05:18:28,030
That's seconded by Council Member Miller.

3356
05:18:28,670 --> 05:18:29,630
Any more to add?

3357
05:18:30,350 --> 05:18:30,910
Council Member Miller?

3358
05:18:31,250 --> 05:18:31,410
Sure.

3359
05:18:31,710 --> 05:18:32,210
I'll just add.

3360
05:18:32,910 --> 05:18:35,590
I also accepted an opportunity to go out and see the trail.

3361
05:18:35,730 --> 05:18:41,070
And I appreciate the hospitality that I received, I think, where I'm coming to and this is

3362
05:18:41,070 --> 05:18:47,470
the upfront and long-term maintenance cost and differences and the ongoing commitment of public

3363
05:18:47,470 --> 05:18:52,910
funds that we do not have a budget for. And so that's why I will be supporting this motion tonight

3364
05:18:52,910 --> 05:18:58,190
because I think that with the growth in Southeast Rochester, additional population that will be

3365
05:18:58,190 --> 05:19:05,910
cut off or provided access by this trail connection. I think there's a public safety, I think there's a

3366
05:19:05,910 --> 05:19:11,050
transportation access, I think there's an economic access point to be made there and that's why

3367
05:19:11,050 --> 05:19:14,430
I'm planning to support this as I did in two weeks ago.

3368
05:19:15,670 --> 05:19:24,230
I also will support it again as I did two weeks ago and I really look at it as, and I think

3369
05:19:24,230 --> 05:19:32,970
Ms. Girls Burger mentioned, there is urban growth here and we are seeing it all over and

3370
05:19:32,970 --> 05:19:53,230
we have an urban growth plan and that includes trail systems and others and we do have a process and I do believe staff has done due diligence to find the best alternative

3371
05:19:53,230 --> 05:19:55,190
it is the most workable alternatives.

3372
05:19:56,030 --> 05:19:59,970
That said, there is a process that starts at...

3373
05:20:00,000 --> 05:20:15,680
The issues of compensation and mitigation of screening. And in that process, the property owner has an arbiter that is a part of that process.

3374
05:20:15,680 --> 05:20:26,860
I do believe this has to do with being good neighbors and I do believe that we as a city have been a good neighbor and trying to be a good neighbor.

3375
05:20:28,000 --> 05:20:33,900
And there are projects that we do that change environments.

3376
05:20:34,000 --> 05:20:37,500
It happens. It's what we do. They're difficult decisions.

3377
05:20:37,500 --> 05:20:47,920
We try to work with the neighbors, we work as well as we came with the neighbors, and we want to work well with the neighbors going forward.

3378
05:20:48,860 --> 05:20:49,620
Conflomer Doring.

3379
05:20:51,180 --> 05:20:57,220
I plan to not support the motion tonight, which would be a change in position for me from our last meeting.

3380
05:20:58,160 --> 05:21:02,900
I have not had very many decisions from the Dius that I've regretted, this was one.

3381
05:21:02,900 --> 05:21:05,860
My vote, so I appreciate the mayor's opportunity

3382
05:21:06,560 --> 05:21:08,940
to bring it back before this body.

3383
05:21:11,160 --> 05:21:13,080
I, along with some of my colleagues

3384
05:21:13,080 --> 05:21:15,940
on the dias this evening, have a problem

3385
05:21:17,260 --> 05:21:20,100
with intersecting the Loomus property down the middle

3386
05:21:20,100 --> 05:21:22,520
when there is a viable option

3387
05:21:22,520 --> 05:21:24,900
to go towards the edge of their property.

3388
05:21:25,120 --> 05:21:29,440
I know that that is a more difficult route to navigate.

3389
05:21:29,540 --> 05:21:31,700
It will take some additional costs.

3390
05:21:31,700 --> 05:21:36,800
It might delay some future infrastructure projects.

3391
05:21:37,060 --> 05:21:39,480
I just think it's the right thing to do.

3392
05:21:40,000 --> 05:21:42,540
So I will not be supporting this motion tonight.

3393
05:21:43,300 --> 05:21:44,600
Thank you. Council member,

3394
05:21:44,620 --> 05:21:45,840
uh, click case.

3395
05:21:45,960 --> 05:21:47,140
So please call the roll.

3396
05:21:47,740 --> 05:21:48,720
Council member Keen.

3397
05:21:49,300 --> 05:21:49,460
Hi.

3398
05:21:50,200 --> 05:21:50,940
Council member Miller.

3399
05:21:51,120 --> 05:21:51,440
Hi.

3400
05:21:52,120 --> 05:21:52,940
Council member Wall.

3401
05:21:53,160 --> 05:21:53,340
Ne.

3402
05:21:54,660 --> 05:21:55,660
Council member Fredericks.

3403
05:21:57,080 --> 05:21:57,940
Council member Palmer.

3404
05:21:59,360 --> 05:21:59,560
Ne.

3405
05:21:59,560 --> 05:22:00,300
Council member Doran.

3406
05:22:00,400 --> 05:22:00,880
Ne.

3407
05:22:00,880 --> 05:22:03,040
Council President Schubering.

3408
05:22:03,600 --> 05:22:03,640
Aye.

3409
05:22:03,880 --> 05:22:09,200
The motion fails to get five votes and does not override the veto.

3410
05:22:09,660 --> 05:22:10,220
Thank you.

3411
05:22:10,840 --> 05:22:16,860
Moving on to H3, which is sustainability pilot programs funding request.

3412
05:22:17,520 --> 05:22:19,500
Who is the lead on this one?

3413
05:22:19,880 --> 05:22:20,020
Mr.

3414
05:22:20,060 --> 05:22:21,660
I'm the Council President.

3415
05:22:22,560 --> 05:22:24,780
Council President Mayor Norton, Council members.

3416
05:22:25,360 --> 05:22:26,680
Thank you for having us here tonight.

3417
05:22:27,160 --> 05:22:30,240
I'll have my colleagues come and sit behind me here.

3418
05:22:30,840 --> 05:22:35,060
So, good evening, Erin, looks down with public works department, also with me as Caleb Betzold,

3419
05:22:35,220 --> 05:22:40,180
our Sustainability Coordinator, Josh Mason and Laurie Cook with roster public utilities.

3420
05:22:41,200 --> 05:22:47,260
Tonight we are here to talk about the proposed sustainability pilot program funding request.

3421
05:22:47,520 --> 05:22:52,100
This is a follow up from the city session that we had in April.

3422
05:22:52,700 --> 05:22:59,160
So, just really quick, what we're going to cover briefly for you tonight is we'll do a recap of that April study session.

3423
05:22:59,160 --> 05:23:04,200
what we had heard from at least the majority of the council members to continue to work on this

3424
05:23:04,200 --> 05:23:09,280
project. The proposed sustainability pilot programs, and you'll see we kind of have a

3425
05:23:09,280 --> 05:23:13,680
suite, so when we say programs, there's two main buckets, and then within that there are some

3426
05:23:13,680 --> 05:23:20,160
suite of options. The implementation and the evaluation plan at this time, and then we'll close

3427
05:23:20,160 --> 05:23:26,260
out with what is the asked before council tonight. And Kayla will be assisting me with the

3428
05:23:26,900 --> 05:23:36,060
and then Josh and Laurie are here to be able to help with any questions, specifically as relates to RPU and their assistance with the proposal.

3429
05:23:37,980 --> 05:23:48,700
So again, at the April study session, what we had heard from the majority of the council members was, if you remember that that was tied into the engagement that we had done on the natural gas franchise fee.

3430
05:23:48,700 --> 05:23:52,960
and the direction was, don't move forward with a natural gas franchise fee based on that

3431
05:23:52,960 --> 05:23:59,700
public engagement and instead develop specific testable and measurable pilot programs based

3432
05:23:59,700 --> 05:24:02,560
on that community feedback that could be considered.

3433
05:24:03,420 --> 05:24:08,780
It was also too specifically work with Rochester Public Utilities on developing those programs

3434
05:24:08,780 --> 05:24:15,380
to make sure they work in concert with the RPU programs that lead in on their expertise and

3435
05:24:15,380 --> 05:24:22,580
implementing rebate programs, and then to return to Council with approximately $100,000 in

3436
05:24:23,700 --> 05:24:30,340
2026 Council to Conditancy Funding for Consideration. So since that time, that's what we've done.

3437
05:24:30,660 --> 05:24:35,940
We've worked with our Pew. We've also worked with other city departments as we evaluated program

3438
05:24:35,940 --> 05:24:43,940
implementation, program expertise in an effort to create efficiencies and streamlining. We also

3439
05:24:43,940 --> 05:24:52,280
So through that we're able to identify administrative responsibilities how to be able to implement this within a regional financial ask,

3440
05:24:52,440 --> 05:24:55,920
review some of the technical components and regulatory components.

3441
05:25:00,000 --> 05:25:09,500
Proposed pilot programs that you'll see before you tonight. And so with that, before I get into the high level of the proposed programs,

3442
05:25:09,520 --> 05:25:22,300
who just wanted to step back based on the community feedback. Because this is what we used as we work through that process to kind of keep fine tuning and narrow down the list of the programs that you'll see tonight.

3443
05:25:22,300 --> 05:25:27,600
The public engagement that we have received, the feedback,

3444
05:25:28,140 --> 05:25:32,160
one is what people wanted to see was support for home improvements

3445
05:25:32,160 --> 05:25:35,100
that reduced energy use and household costs,

3446
05:25:35,100 --> 05:25:38,980
so ways to reduce those costs, direct visual investment,

3447
05:25:39,280 --> 05:25:42,200
back into the community, so getting the funds back

3448
05:25:42,200 --> 05:25:44,480
into the hands of residents for those projects,

3449
05:25:44,920 --> 05:25:47,260
that it would be resident community led projects,

3450
05:25:48,120 --> 05:25:51,460
that the programs are accessible to a wide range of applicants,

3451
05:25:51,460 --> 05:25:57,000
so not just single family residents, but also multi-family renters, things, things of that nature,

3452
05:25:57,580 --> 05:26:02,640
that there are clear eligibility requirements associated with those program details,

3453
05:26:03,020 --> 05:26:07,420
and then that we're able to have measurable outcomes and funding transparency.

3454
05:26:07,760 --> 05:26:10,920
So where the funds are being used and what are we accomplishing with that?

3455
05:26:11,260 --> 05:26:16,800
And so that's what we used on the basis of bringing forth the programs that you'll see tonight.

3456
05:26:16,800 --> 05:26:24,060
And so from a high level standpoint, again, there's two primary buckets, where we say funding areas that we're looking at.

3457
05:26:24,300 --> 05:26:31,400
The proposal is $75,000 in the first bucket, which is for residential rebate pilot programs.

3458
05:26:32,140 --> 05:26:37,520
These are targeted incentives that are specific for residential energy efficiency.

3459
05:26:37,640 --> 05:26:40,340
And then you'll also hear some emerging technologies.

3460
05:26:40,340 --> 05:26:46,580
So it allows us to beta test those technologies and start to roll those out.

3461
05:26:47,080 --> 05:26:50,280
The second piece and Kayla is going to go into great detail on that.

3462
05:26:50,400 --> 05:26:51,560
So I'm not going to on this slide.

3463
05:26:51,700 --> 05:26:53,480
You have a few more slides coming up.

3464
05:26:53,620 --> 05:26:55,140
We're still going to talk about that in more detail.

3465
05:26:55,800 --> 05:27:03,220
The second one is partnering with the building community grant program and actually enhancing that by 25,000.

3466
05:27:03,220 --> 05:27:10,640
Chau was just meeting with the council last week talking about that program and so the recommendation

3467
05:27:10,640 --> 05:27:18,440
is to increase that by $25,000 and it would have specific support for environmental stewardship

3468
05:27:18,440 --> 05:27:26,440
focused projects that are led by residents and those community organizations. With this approach it

3469
05:27:26,440 --> 05:27:33,500
allows us to utilize existing RPU programs tying into the expertise they already have with

3470
05:27:33,500 --> 05:27:37,560
implementing rebate programs and through their billing system.

3471
05:27:39,140 --> 05:27:46,800
We can also implement on a small scale that allows us to measure that and be able to track

3472
05:27:46,800 --> 05:27:47,320
that.

3473
05:27:48,060 --> 05:27:53,160
So there's hard data that we can bring back to council and be able to do a fully evaluation

3474
05:27:53,160 --> 05:28:00,500
when we come back for a recommendation for 28 and potentially beyond. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Kayla.

3475
05:28:03,020 --> 05:28:14,180
Thank you, Erin. Good late evening, Council members, Council President Mayer. I'm going to talk just a little bit more specifically about the programs that we are recommending.

3476
05:28:14,180 --> 05:28:19,240
So, this slide kind of shows the breakdown of the 75,000 that we're recommending in the residential

3477
05:28:19,240 --> 05:28:25,560
pilot program budget and so really the goal of this is to mix energy efficiency, electrification,

3478
05:28:25,980 --> 05:28:30,220
resilience, and renewable energy strategies. We feel that each of these rebates kind of serves

3479
05:28:30,220 --> 05:28:37,380
a different purpose in that regard. So first, the 22,500 for the plugin or also known as Belkanese

3480
05:28:37,380 --> 05:28:44,300
solar. The purpose here is to explore a smaller and potentially more accessible version of renewable

3481
05:28:44,300 --> 05:28:51,880
energy for those folks that maybe our renters or multifamily or residents who can't install

3482
05:28:51,880 --> 05:28:57,080
rooftop solar for whatever reason. And so with this one we are going to be working with our

3483
05:28:57,080 --> 05:29:03,200
PU and community development on some equipment certification and code related conversations

3484
05:29:03,200 --> 05:29:05,900
and hoping to launch that program in 2027.

3485
05:29:07,680 --> 05:29:10,460
Next, 20,000 for the battery storage rebates,

3486
05:29:10,800 --> 05:29:14,540
which could be partnered with new or existing rooftop solar

3487
05:29:14,540 --> 05:29:16,120
or standalone batteries.

3488
05:29:16,800 --> 05:29:19,660
There is also a state of Minnesota battery incentive,

3489
05:29:19,940 --> 05:29:24,060
and so this rebate could partner with the state of Minnesota rebate

3490
05:29:24,060 --> 05:29:26,330
to kind of further reduce those up front costs.

3491
05:29:27,580 --> 05:29:29,240
That's what you hold for a minute.

3492
05:29:29,240 --> 05:29:35,380
Council Member Wolff. One of the questions I had in looking at this chart is, do you have any

3493
05:29:35,380 --> 05:29:41,900
idea how many households represent the 225 and then the 20 and then the 20? How many households

3494
05:29:41,900 --> 05:29:50,140
are we going to touch? We do on the next slide. Oh, that was my question too, so. Okay. Thank you.

3495
05:29:50,140 --> 05:29:53,280
and I get to the next slide, could we have it in each on each row?

3496
05:29:53,880 --> 05:29:55,220
Council member, Palmer else, that's a question.

3497
05:29:55,580 --> 05:29:55,960
So on your first...

3498
05:30:00,000 --> 05:30:02,580
If you're approval, what are you talking about?

3499
05:30:03,820 --> 05:30:08,700
Yes, and I might invite our PU up to kind of assist with this, but we are talking with community

3500
05:30:08,700 --> 05:30:14,060
development and our PU about just some aspects of the program that we still need to kind

3501
05:30:14,060 --> 05:30:17,560
of figure out details on and hoping to launch in 2027.

3502
05:30:18,240 --> 05:30:25,840
Okay, but you're asking for a contingency funds. You're hoping to do something and you don't have the code.

3503
05:30:25,840 --> 05:30:33,940
And what I'm concerned about is that you're going to say plug in balcony solar, is this for rentals, is this for home owners?

3504
05:30:34,420 --> 05:30:37,000
There's a lot of questions here that doesn't make any sense.

3505
05:30:37,980 --> 05:30:39,100
Yep, I can feel that question.

3506
05:30:39,660 --> 05:30:40,940
Great questions, councilmember Palmer.

3507
05:30:42,040 --> 05:30:44,380
So the idea behind this one is we want to be ready.

3508
05:30:44,560 --> 05:30:49,100
So there's a lot of interesting balcony solar, but there is right now.

3509
05:30:49,720 --> 05:30:52,900
There's questions regarding on the code side.

3510
05:30:52,900 --> 05:31:02,860
Our building officials as well as the state building officials have been in correspondence on the national energy code side of it to put language into that code.

3511
05:31:03,000 --> 05:31:07,480
It just isn't going to be ready until they're anticipating mid 2027.

3512
05:31:08,300 --> 05:31:17,580
And in order for us to move quickly, we want this in the hopper to then be able to implement the program if that is successful.

3513
05:31:17,580 --> 05:31:24,060
Now people are purchasing these, there are items available, and so there are being used already.

3514
05:31:24,280 --> 05:31:30,900
We just would not want to be able to have a rebate program and incentivizing something until that has been fully fleshed out.

3515
05:31:31,720 --> 05:31:42,020
So in the event that does not fall into place and we're not able to implement part of the ask would be to allow us to shift that funding into one of the other pots,

3516
05:31:42,020 --> 05:31:49,380
where we are seeing high demand and perhaps have already exhausted all the funding within that area.

3517
05:31:49,620 --> 05:31:50,480
So if not, I don't know.

3518
05:31:51,800 --> 05:31:56,100
There's a certification right now, UL 3700 listed products.

3519
05:31:57,060 --> 05:32:00,560
With the plug-ins solar, we're likely looking at some of the smaller systems.

3520
05:32:00,560 --> 05:32:04,800
You hear like 1.2 KW, a number that other states have used.

3521
05:32:05,460 --> 05:32:10,080
We're looking at something probably around like 420 watts or smaller, and it is essentially

3522
05:32:10,080 --> 05:32:16,220
you plug it into an outlet, and it delivers power into the home that essentially powers like

3523
05:32:16,220 --> 05:32:20,940
a refrigerator, some light bulbs, that's sort of thing. It does not export power out to the grid.

3524
05:32:22,020 --> 05:32:28,680
So, from a code perspective, is it a electrical code from from you as a distributor or is it from

3525
05:32:28,680 --> 05:32:35,380
the building code as being proposed and you think it's going to pass next July? Is that what which is it?

3526
05:32:35,560 --> 05:32:39,000
There's a couple things going on. There's state legislation right now.

3527
05:32:39,000 --> 05:32:46,320
Um, that was introduced earlier this year that did that pass that will likely come back in the 2027 session, um,

3528
05:32:46,640 --> 05:32:55,500
what the safety standard is that UL 3700. So essentially, once products are certified under UL 3700 customers can buy them,

3529
05:32:55,660 --> 05:33:03,460
they've been deemed saved and tested, um, and able to be used. So the only UL listed product,

3530
05:33:03,460 --> 05:33:05,460
You all, yep, you all 3700.

3531
05:33:05,460 --> 05:33:07,960
And our views cool with that.

3532
05:33:08,060 --> 05:33:08,180
Yep.

3533
05:33:08,640 --> 05:33:10,100
And I know Lori, do you want to jump in?

3534
05:33:10,160 --> 05:33:12,460
You have a conversation with our state electron spectator.

3535
05:33:13,000 --> 05:33:17,700
And this is the very reason why I didn't pass it to the state or this year is because some of these concerns about it.

3536
05:33:17,700 --> 05:33:19,480
Well, the state doesn't pass anything to the end of May.

3537
05:33:20,220 --> 05:33:20,260
So.

3538
05:33:20,260 --> 05:33:20,540
Right.

3539
05:33:21,220 --> 05:33:21,440
Yeah.

3540
05:33:21,440 --> 05:33:23,000
And they don't do June 1.

3541
05:33:23,400 --> 05:33:23,900
No, exactly.

3542
05:33:25,260 --> 05:33:25,500
Yeah.

3543
05:33:25,500 --> 05:33:31,460
So in each of the states that have passed balcony solar product or balcony solar laws,

3544
05:33:31,460 --> 05:33:41,220
The laws are essentially to prohibit utilities and other entities from disallowing it to be used.

3545
05:33:42,460 --> 05:33:53,520
And again, virtually all of the states have allowed up to 1,200 watts, which, you know, without any fuel support or anything like that,

3546
05:33:53,520 --> 05:34:18,660
What we're proposing is only UL 3,700 products, which so far are all in the, you know, 420 watt range, some that are going up to about 550 and incentivizing good behavior, if you will, you know, these products are already shipping any any of us could buy one right now and plug it into our wall.

3547
05:34:19,740 --> 05:34:27,180
what we want to incentivize is, you know, the smaller safe units that are UL listed.

3548
05:34:27,280 --> 05:34:32,540
My last question. What's it cost? What's a UL listed product cost that you're going to

3549
05:34:32,540 --> 05:34:41,700
save how much? That's actually on an upcoming slide. Okay. Thank you. And one of

3550
05:34:41,700 --> 05:34:46,540
other thing to follow, but I'm not the electrical code expert. And so that's where we've been

3551
05:34:46,540 --> 05:34:50,260
talking with community development on this. So, regardless of the

3552
05:34:50,260 --> 05:34:53,040
comment that I made. So, what we're understanding is there is some

3553
05:34:53,040 --> 05:34:55,920
code changes that are being proposed. And no.

3554
05:35:00,000 --> 05:35:29,860
We'll come out and draft for the twenty twenty nine update. But if it's in draft and are the state of Minnesota and our our team has been involved with drafting that language, they will reference that and allow that to be rolled out early. So if it goes beyond the products that that Josh and Laurie had just mentioned, those are what we would also be able to then implement, but it would come down to the approval from our community development department to start implementing that.

3555
05:35:32,280 --> 05:35:33,320
Thank you.

3556
05:35:33,420 --> 05:35:34,740
Continuous to jump to the north.

3557
05:35:34,740 --> 05:35:37,280
Yeah, let's see how much this stuff's going to cost.

3558
05:35:37,840 --> 05:35:42,020
Okay. You can see kind of the rationale for the rest of them.

3559
05:35:42,160 --> 05:35:45,920
Electric panels remove the barriers to these larger electrification projects.

3560
05:35:46,300 --> 05:35:49,200
Air sealing and insulation kind of the first step energy efficiency.

3561
05:35:50,160 --> 05:35:52,780
And then some funding reserve for program administration.

3562
05:35:53,840 --> 05:35:58,340
So getting into the question that was just raised on the proposed incentive amounts.

3563
05:35:58,340 --> 05:36:03,600
and so this is where we're looking at incentives from one to three hundred dollars for the balcony

3564
05:36:03,600 --> 05:36:08,580
solar, depending on kind of some of these conversations that we're still having sizes of systems,

3565
05:36:08,760 --> 05:36:14,460
eligibility, the safety that you all certified equipment types, things like that. So we're looking

3566
05:36:14,460 --> 05:36:21,200
at a reach of 75 to 220 households with that one. Battery storage, we're looking at 2000 per project,

3567
05:36:21,200 --> 05:36:28,660
again. I ask a good clarifying question. So how much of the cost of whether it's the plug-in

3568
05:36:28,660 --> 05:36:37,360
solar unit or the battery storage rebate? How much of that cost does the incentive cover? Is the

3569
05:36:37,360 --> 05:36:46,240
whole thing or is it a portion of what the consumer pays? The plug-in solar would be around by

3570
05:36:46,240 --> 05:36:51,900
had to 15%, battery storage, probably somewhere in that range too.

3571
05:36:52,700 --> 05:36:58,920
10%, 10% to 15% of the incentive is 10% to 15%

3572
05:36:58,920 --> 05:37:00,760
of the total cost, I got it.

3573
05:37:00,960 --> 05:37:03,520
And then we did try with these as well,

3574
05:37:03,600 --> 05:37:06,560
to find other programs that we could support,

3575
05:37:06,820 --> 05:37:08,100
so for instance, battery storage,

3576
05:37:08,260 --> 05:37:11,380
the state of Minnesota incentive may also apply

3577
05:37:11,380 --> 05:37:14,660
for that one, same with electric panel,

3578
05:37:16,120 --> 05:37:19,360
and then on the air ceiling and insulation that one,

3579
05:37:19,560 --> 05:37:21,820
partners with the Minnesota Energy Resources rebate,

3580
05:37:22,060 --> 05:37:23,180
which is the natural gas company.

3581
05:37:23,880 --> 05:37:26,520
So looking to leverage other funding sources

3582
05:37:26,520 --> 05:37:29,600
to continue to bring down those upfront costs.

3583
05:37:30,440 --> 05:37:34,040
We're looking at 2000 again for the electric panel upgrade add-on

3584
05:37:34,040 --> 05:37:37,840
and that would be partnering with an RPU incentive

3585
05:37:37,840 --> 05:37:38,940
for our source heat pumps,

3586
05:37:39,080 --> 05:37:41,720
so supporting barriers to electrification,

3587
05:37:41,720 --> 05:37:46,580
not just someone who would like to increase their electric panel, and then the air sealing

3588
05:37:46,580 --> 05:37:53,360
and insulation, again supporting the Minnesota energy resources rebate and we're looking

3589
05:37:53,360 --> 05:37:55,440
at about 100 projects for that.

3590
05:37:57,630 --> 05:38:01,850
This table kind of or this chart kind of shows the program

3591
05:38:01,850 --> 05:38:09,650
cost effectiveness of the RPU program. So what we did was look at how these programs not only

3592
05:38:10,930 --> 05:38:16,270
matchup with other RPU programs on a cost effectiveness scale, but also how do they fill gaps

3593
05:38:16,270 --> 05:38:20,810
in existing programs. So, you know, we don't want to duplicate existing programs, we want

3594
05:38:20,810 --> 05:38:26,050
to fill gaps, and we want to support RPU in that sense. And so, we do feel that the programs

3595
05:38:26,050 --> 05:38:31,970
that we have recommended fall within a reasonable cost effectiveness range, and then the electric

3596
05:38:31,970 --> 05:38:37,190
panel is not shown on this one because it doesn't directly save energy, but it does reduce those

3597
05:38:37,190 --> 05:38:38,970
barriers for those larger projects.

3598
05:38:40,390 --> 05:38:46,530
And then the second piece or the second pilot program, Bucket, is the enhancement of the

3599
05:38:46,530 --> 05:38:52,350
building community grant program, and so this would be an additional $25,000, that would

3600
05:38:52,350 --> 05:38:57,910
be directed towards environmental sustainability related projects within this larger grant

3601
05:38:57,910 --> 05:38:58,270
program.

3602
05:38:58,790 --> 05:39:02,570
So I know a child was here recently and she shared a little bit about this program, but it

3603
05:39:02,570 --> 05:39:08,850
a very popular program. There's currently $100,000 allocated annually to this grant and funds

3604
05:39:08,850 --> 05:39:13,570
are utilized within, they have been utilized within the first six months of 2024, 2025,

3605
05:39:13,570 --> 05:39:19,710
and 2026. And so we also know that some environmentally-focused projects are not receiving

3606
05:39:19,710 --> 05:39:25,790
full funding. And so this would really be in an effort to support and enhance the program,

3607
05:39:25,790 --> 05:39:32,570
to support environmental projects and to, again, leverage the existing, you know, application

3608
05:39:33,590 --> 05:39:39,970
structure, the outreach process, the staff review structure, essentially tweaking the program

3609
05:39:39,970 --> 05:39:45,770
making small changes, bringing the sustainability team into the review, but leaning on the program

3610
05:39:45,770 --> 05:39:52,290
that already exists. And then I listed some potential projects on here, but again, these are grassroots

3611
05:39:52,290 --> 05:39:55,910
efforts and so it really is up to the community on this one.

3612
05:39:58,700 --> 05:39:59,760
A little bit about implementation.

3613
05:40:00,000 --> 05:40:28,120
And then evaluation. So this timeline here shows a little bit about what the future timeline would look like. So if funding were to be approved tonight for the rest of the year, we would kind of be working with our PU and city departments to finalize all of the components of these programs. So, you know, eligible equipment, program materials putting together the applications, the rebate processing order of operations, things like that.

3614
05:40:28,120 --> 05:40:31,060
And then in 2027 launching the ready program.

3615
05:40:31,660 --> 05:40:34,520
So conducting outreach through existing channels

3616
05:40:34,990 --> 05:40:39,280
in collaboration with RPU with the healthy home program

3617
05:40:39,280 --> 05:40:43,840
that we've created through community groups, things like that.

3618
05:40:44,560 --> 05:40:49,200
And then tracking metrics, costs, outcomes

3619
05:40:49,200 --> 05:40:52,700
of all these programs, both quantitative and qualitative.

3620
05:40:53,440 --> 05:40:55,720
So on the quantitative side, we'll be looking

3621
05:40:55,720 --> 05:40:58,780
at participation, number of projects,

3622
05:40:59,040 --> 05:41:02,740
dollar per KWAH, reduced, dollar per greenhouse gas emission,

3623
05:41:03,260 --> 05:41:08,940
reduced or saved, and then on the more qualitative side of things,

3624
05:41:09,620 --> 05:41:12,240
we would be looking at, you know, participant experience,

3625
05:41:12,800 --> 05:41:15,280
certainly, you know, similar to the community grant,

3626
05:41:15,700 --> 05:41:21,740
the photos, the stories, the community impact of that grant enhancement.

3627
05:41:22,200 --> 05:41:25,240
So as we go through these programs, we would be collecting that data,

3628
05:41:25,240 --> 05:41:30,520
analyzing that data and then coming back to you in 2027 to kind of report on the outcomes of

3629
05:41:30,520 --> 05:41:37,020
these pilot programs with recommendations for how we'd like to either continue, modify, or

3630
05:41:37,020 --> 05:41:43,640
discontinue each of these pilot programs moving forward into 2028 and beyond. And with that,

3631
05:41:43,780 --> 05:41:45,360
I will turn it back to Aaron.

3632
05:41:47,770 --> 05:41:52,090
Yep. So then just the last is we wanted to follow up. Just to remind

3633
05:41:52,090 --> 05:41:59,910
the ASP before Council tonight is to authorize the use of $100,000 from the 2026 contingency funding

3634
05:42:00,590 --> 05:42:08,870
with $75,000 for the residential rebate pilot programs, $25,000 to expand the building community

3635
05:42:08,870 --> 05:42:16,630
grant program with that sustainability focused funding. And then the second component of that is authorizing

3636
05:42:16,630 --> 05:42:24,830
staff to finalize and implement those programs, evaluate the 2027 pilot here and then return

3637
05:42:24,830 --> 05:42:30,270
to council with the final results and recommendations for next steps. So with that, if there's

3638
05:42:30,270 --> 05:42:37,770
any additional questions. Council member Keene. Yeah, again, I just want to, I know you

3639
05:42:37,770 --> 05:42:42,310
tie this together, but you were with us, I think, and maybe in the winter, when you talked about,

3640
05:42:42,310 --> 05:42:43,570
like, hey, we've done this outreach.

3641
05:42:43,950 --> 05:42:46,710
And I think it was a council recommendation

3642
05:42:46,710 --> 05:42:48,910
to try to do a pilot and do it this way.

3643
05:42:49,330 --> 05:42:50,450
So just to tie that together.

3644
05:42:50,670 --> 05:42:52,390
And I am supportive of that.

3645
05:42:52,730 --> 05:42:54,270
The couple things I'm surprised at, though,

3646
05:42:54,270 --> 05:42:56,530
I'm really glad to see RPU here with you,

3647
05:42:56,610 --> 05:42:58,090
because I know there was some early on,

3648
05:42:58,090 --> 05:43:00,630
like, how does this work and how does this work in conflict

3649
05:43:00,630 --> 05:43:01,970
or in together?

3650
05:43:01,970 --> 05:43:03,310
So it's good to see that.

3651
05:43:04,150 --> 05:43:07,930
One thing with the, I'm glad to see the balcony stuff

3652
05:43:07,930 --> 05:43:09,630
on here, because it's happening, whether, like you say,

3653
05:43:09,630 --> 05:43:12,090
whether we support it or not.

3654
05:43:12,590 --> 05:43:14,510
But I imagine it's all behind the meter

3655
05:43:14,510 --> 05:43:16,530
and there's no way of tracking whatever

3656
05:43:16,530 --> 05:43:17,730
that ends up doing.

3657
05:43:18,530 --> 05:43:20,430
And I see our view kind of saying,

3658
05:43:20,730 --> 05:43:22,210
you can help get them out there,

3659
05:43:22,310 --> 05:43:25,350
but there's no way to know that they reduce,

3660
05:43:26,410 --> 05:43:28,210
because it's all behind the meter.

3661
05:43:28,730 --> 05:43:29,630
Is that to a team play, have that one?

3662
05:43:29,630 --> 05:43:30,430
Are you answering?

3663
05:43:31,090 --> 05:43:34,130
You'll need to verbally answer for our...

3664
05:43:34,130 --> 05:43:35,930
Yes, we think a bit more like energy conservation.

3665
05:43:35,970 --> 05:43:38,510
It's behind the meter, it's reducing that energy usage.

3666
05:43:38,510 --> 05:43:43,210
reducing demand, which allows it to be part of your demand management, exactly.

3667
05:43:43,390 --> 05:43:46,730
Where some of these other things that we were talking about when you talk about converting

3668
05:43:46,730 --> 05:43:52,010
things to electric, I don't think the RPU dollars can participate in that right now.

3669
05:43:52,890 --> 05:43:57,530
If customers on a time of use rates, then they can. Okay, because we don't want to build

3670
05:43:57,530 --> 05:44:02,150
load that contributes for a peak. You know, so that's why we have a time of use, like electric vehicles,

3671
05:44:02,230 --> 05:44:07,190
for examples, a good one too. Yeah, we can provide incentives for electric vehicles, assuming that they

3672
05:44:07,190 --> 05:44:09,650
are going to be charging at night if they're on top of you straight.

3673
05:44:10,190 --> 05:44:14,550
Okay. My other kind of observation for this was I was surprised by the level of detail on

3674
05:44:14,550 --> 05:44:19,170
what the spending is and the breakdown to that. I'm probably good, but you also, do you feel

3675
05:44:19,170 --> 05:44:25,000
you're painting yourself into a corner a little bit? Yeah, thank you for that question, Councilmember.

3676
05:44:25,800 --> 05:44:30,380
A little bit, but there was a lot of thought that went into this. So again, we did research the number

3677
05:44:30,380 --> 05:44:37,120
of projects that we felt we could fund being able to talk with the applicants, get their experience,

3678
05:44:37,120 --> 05:44:41,780
be able to track it was important so that we had that measurable information and so that also

3679
05:44:41,780 --> 05:44:47,960
played into, you know, the factors there. And then the last thing as I noted in customer

3680
05:44:47,960 --> 05:44:52,540
Palmer's previous questions, not knowing fully what would happen with the balcony solar,

3681
05:44:53,040 --> 05:44:59,980
yeah, that $22,500, part of that ask would be if there's a program that all the funds are being

3682
05:45:00,000 --> 05:45:06,960
We expected much faster than we thought. There's a lot of interest in it. We have the flexibility to be able to shift those funds.

3683
05:45:06,960 --> 05:45:17,060
And that's the specific one because when I look at the timeline, like if you're going to get approvals in mid-year, then you're going to be back to us and report back in October, it's just, there's just no time.

3684
05:45:17,900 --> 05:45:28,380
It's going to be very, very fast. But we do think, when you look at the amount of investment that could be made in this space, I know 100,000 dollars is a big ask.

3685
05:45:28,380 --> 05:45:35,660
it also is a small amount in comparison to many other rebate programs that you see the investments

3686
05:45:35,660 --> 05:45:40,820
happening in these residential properties. So we do think that we would be able to implement

3687
05:45:40,820 --> 05:45:45,280
it and get those funds out to the community with the short amount of time that we have.

3688
05:45:45,500 --> 05:45:52,280
Very good. And again, the way the motions are put in front of us, you do have the flexibility

3689
05:45:52,780 --> 05:46:05,440
next May to switch funds around you don't need to be back to us. Correct. That's our, that's our, that's I'm going to state is my understanding too but I'm just going to get it out there. Thank you.

3690
05:46:05,580 --> 05:46:06,800
Council member Palmer.

3691
05:46:08,420 --> 05:46:20,160
Well, I asked the building code question. I've been in the building code for 40 years and nothing happens fast there. So I've, I've, I've, I've,

3692
05:46:20,160 --> 05:46:25,760
plug-in system is $1395 and $150 to have it delivered.

3693
05:46:26,460 --> 05:46:31,300
So I'm not particularly sure that people are going to be spending money to save a little

3694
05:46:31,300 --> 05:46:35,360
bit of money and I'm missing this whole entire concept.

3695
05:46:36,460 --> 05:46:43,060
The other one is the system and the emergency using our dollars for something like this.

3696
05:46:43,460 --> 05:46:45,100
He want to plan it, you could plan it.

3697
05:46:45,200 --> 05:46:48,740
I think our Pew does a really, really good job on sustainability.

3698
05:46:48,740 --> 05:46:53,800
need to do a really good job on rebates. I would rather just give them money and just say,

3699
05:46:53,940 --> 05:47:00,280
hey, here's 50 grand. This is kind of what we like to do and we don't have to reinvent the wheel here.

3700
05:47:01,400 --> 05:47:05,460
And they're already, they're already here, they're experts in this. So I won't be supporting this

3701
05:47:05,460 --> 05:47:09,840
motion. I think somebody's going to make for those a couple of reasons.

3702
05:47:11,220 --> 05:47:12,180
Councilmember Miller.

3703
05:47:13,300 --> 05:47:17,600
Could you clarify the other savings that would come from having a solar panel behind the

3704
05:47:17,600 --> 05:47:22,560
the initial cost and rebate. I'm going to defer my colleague

3705
05:47:22,560 --> 05:47:26,680
understand the cost proposition. Yeah, I can answer that question. So

3706
05:47:26,680 --> 05:47:30,680
first smaller system about 420 watts, you would save about

3707
05:47:30,680 --> 05:47:34,600
$70 annually. Okay. So what is the payback

3708
05:47:34,600 --> 05:47:38,440
period of that compared with rooftop solar? Very similar.

3709
05:47:38,460 --> 05:47:41,040
Very similar. Yeah, probably that eight to 12 years. Okay.

3710
05:47:41,040 --> 05:47:43,800
You know, I'm heading on cost, but somewhere in that range. And

3711
05:47:43,800 --> 05:47:46,700
compared with a rooftop solar program, the advantage of this

3712
05:47:46,700 --> 05:47:51,560
renters who we heard not represented, they're able to take that with them. Should they move?

3713
05:47:51,860 --> 05:47:56,180
It's not fixed to the building. Yeah, they can move it. There's no interconnection process that

3714
05:47:56,180 --> 05:48:01,420
they need to go to. There's no extra meters or extra wiring or anything required. Thanks.

3715
05:48:02,940 --> 05:48:08,560
I've got a question on it. So you mentioned, yes, a hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money,

3716
05:48:08,720 --> 05:48:15,820
but it's also when it comes to really implementing and evaluating, it may not be that much.

3717
05:48:15,820 --> 05:48:33,780
And so what I'm struggling with is the evaluation of the pilot project and how you're going to get data that will then support the expansion of the program.

3718
05:48:34,520 --> 05:48:39,420
And so can you talk, I know you covered it, but can you talk through that again in a little more depth.

3719
05:48:39,420 --> 05:48:42,160
And actually, Kales, since you covered this in more detail,

3720
05:48:42,560 --> 05:48:44,120
we'll have you covered that question on a little bit.

3721
05:48:44,500 --> 05:48:48,460
Yep, and I did flip back to the evaluation pieces that we'd be looking at.

3722
05:48:49,120 --> 05:48:54,540
Yeah, I think that's part of why we kind of have these two programs that are pretty different.

3723
05:48:54,560 --> 05:49:00,000
I think on the residential energy rebate side, it really is more that quantitative side of it.

3724
05:49:00,320 --> 05:49:05,200
And we started with a larger list of what the rebates could be and we kind of trimmed it down

3725
05:49:05,200 --> 05:49:06,800
to these four options.

3726
05:49:07,240 --> 05:49:13,580
We do recognize that some of them have kind of a smaller number of projects, but we will

3727
05:49:13,580 --> 05:49:21,940
be working closely with our PO on the data collection with those, you know, and we'd

3728
05:49:21,940 --> 05:49:27,760
like to also, you know, do surveys and understand kind of did this move the needle, did

3729
05:49:27,760 --> 05:49:30,880
this make an impact on if you could complete the project or not.

3730
05:49:30,880 --> 05:49:38,000
And then we also have RPU, you know, has the, you have your different formulas that you

3731
05:49:38,000 --> 05:49:42,040
used to calculate all of the energy and greenhouse gas emission reductions savings from

3732
05:49:42,040 --> 05:49:42,440
all of these.

3733
05:49:42,520 --> 05:49:46,740
And so we'll have kind of that hard data and then on the community grant side of things,

3734
05:49:47,040 --> 05:49:51,820
you know, they have the criteria already that they used to evaluate the effectiveness of

3735
05:49:51,820 --> 05:49:52,460
that program.

3736
05:49:52,580 --> 05:49:56,500
And so I think we do understand that it is a limited amount of funding.

3737
05:49:56,500 --> 05:49:59,880
we're also taking that funding and kind of breaking it down into.

3738
05:50:00,620 --> 05:50:10,660
So several different options as well, and that is why we tried to use existing program structures, where we could, and really align with processes and try our best to not recreate the wheel.

3739
05:50:11,860 --> 05:50:27,080
So just to clarify, so a lot of the data you're going to get is the experience that the homeowners or the participants in the project give you.

3740
05:50:27,080 --> 05:50:49,700
We, a council member, keen, talked about behind the meter, so that we're, you're going to be relying on the, the participants and their assessment of how much they're saving. Is that correct on the plug-in balcony? Is that a good way to, am I hearing that properly?

3741
05:50:50,260 --> 05:50:51,720
How are we going to determine?

3742
05:50:52,140 --> 05:50:54,500
So member Keene says no, I'm not.

3743
05:50:54,600 --> 05:50:55,800
Okay, go ahead.

3744
05:50:56,080 --> 05:50:58,640
We can quantify the energy savings, yes.

3745
05:50:58,840 --> 05:51:00,800
And then you can for the participants.

3746
05:51:01,900 --> 05:51:02,120
Yep.

3747
05:51:02,780 --> 05:51:03,740
For example, for example,

3748
05:51:03,920 --> 05:51:05,100
each solar panel that's installed.

3749
05:51:05,220 --> 05:51:06,320
We can claim energy savings.

3750
05:51:06,480 --> 05:51:08,240
I contribute to our state energy savings.

3751
05:51:08,460 --> 05:51:09,700
Go all the 1.5 percent.

3752
05:51:10,340 --> 05:51:12,580
So it helps us in that way as well.

3753
05:51:13,900 --> 05:51:16,020
But the point with behind the meter in front,

3754
05:51:16,320 --> 05:51:18,300
it just was with the rooftop things.

3755
05:51:18,300 --> 05:51:23,840
we're connected into the RPU system and when this and even is behind the meter, I think what

3756
05:51:23,840 --> 05:51:29,880
we'll do for these is estimate how much impact they have like on average and I think that's a

3757
05:51:29,880 --> 05:51:34,060
fine way to do these kinds of things exactly. Yeah, because whatever information the systems will

3758
05:51:34,060 --> 05:51:38,520
know likely which way which direction the house are facing so we can do some pretty good estimates on that.

3759
05:51:38,520 --> 05:51:44,130
That helps. Thanks for that clarification. Council member, Fredericks. Thank you.

3760
05:51:44,770 --> 05:51:49,190
I hate shooting holes and things, but I got it a little bit here and you're like, I look

3761
05:51:49,190 --> 05:51:50,510
at it this way.

3762
05:51:51,070 --> 05:51:55,610
I see the amount of the incentive to do it.

3763
05:51:55,830 --> 05:52:01,530
And somebody that's struggling to make ends meet isn't going to buy a $1,400 piece of equipment

3764
05:52:01,530 --> 05:52:02,650
to save 100 bucks.

3765
05:52:03,330 --> 05:52:05,850
I mean, our 50 bucks or 70 bucks.

3766
05:52:06,890 --> 05:52:12,010
I see it as giving people a little bit of money that are going to purchase this stuff anyway.

3767
05:52:12,010 --> 05:52:16,430
They're going to buy this stuff anyway, and it gives them a little bit of off of what they're buying

3768
05:52:18,390 --> 05:52:25,050
To for somebody in my mind to make a decision like I'm going to step outside of my norm and I'm going to try something new

3769
05:52:25,970 --> 05:52:29,570
I'm going to have to get a substantial savings and then and to get payback

3770
05:52:30,250 --> 05:52:36,930
I heard you say seven years, but by my math said 20 years if it's 70 bucks and the things 1400 bucks

3771
05:52:36,930 --> 05:52:41,450
It's 20 years. I don't know. That's my math, but I'm just saying

3772
05:52:42,010 --> 05:52:47,530
And then what's the reliability of this stuff is it tried and true and a lot of solar panels in the fast friends of mine

3773
05:52:47,530 --> 05:52:54,690
I'm tried them they failed before they even got close to a payback things like that. There's there is there is a lot more to

3774
05:52:55,870 --> 05:52:57,890
Somebody taking this leap than just

3775
05:52:58,450 --> 05:53:01,510
Honestly a very small percentage of their money up front

3776
05:53:02,110 --> 05:53:04,170
To to do it so

3777
05:53:06,110 --> 05:53:11,870
Councilmember Miller. Yeah, I feel like we're kind of relocating past discussions and I know it's like somewhat

3778
05:53:11,870 --> 05:53:16,630
narrow direction, but I think you've provided that. So with that said, I'd like to make a motion,

3779
05:53:16,870 --> 05:53:21,710
adopting a resolution authorizing $100,000 from 2026 Council contingency funding for

3780
05:53:21,710 --> 05:53:28,490
sustainability pilot programs, including $75,000 for residential rebates, and $25,000 for a

3781
05:53:28,490 --> 05:53:33,830
sustainability focused expansion of the building community grant program, and authorizing staff to

3782
05:53:33,830 --> 05:53:39,730
finalize and implement the programs with the 2027 pilot year and return to Council with the

3783
05:53:39,730 --> 05:53:45,510
all-time recommendations. How second, most you made by Councilmember Miller and seconded by Councilmember

3784
05:53:45,510 --> 05:53:50,350
Keenan, any more to add Councilmember Miller? Again, I think you've done what we asked you to do

3785
05:53:50,350 --> 05:53:55,430
what direction came from the last time we engaged this. I appreciate the innovation in thinking

3786
05:53:55,430 --> 05:54:01,090
about projects that are emerging, balcony solar being one battery projects that are immediately

3787
05:54:01,090 --> 05:54:09,710
paying back their full potential, but are flexible or applicable to different subset of

3788
05:54:10,230 --> 05:54:12,430
and so I feel like you've heard our feedback,

3789
05:54:12,630 --> 05:54:14,270
you brought us a program that meets those conditions,

3790
05:54:14,750 --> 05:54:17,010
and so I've got to support this.

3791
05:54:18,610 --> 05:54:20,230
Com some of our metrics.

3792
05:54:20,650 --> 05:54:22,970
Thanks. I have a feeling this is going to pass tonight,

3793
05:54:23,110 --> 05:54:24,810
and that's fine. I'm on board with that,

3794
05:54:25,030 --> 05:54:26,850
but I don't want to come back and ear to and say,

3795
05:54:26,950 --> 05:54:28,170
hey, we're going to do a franchise fee

3796
05:54:28,170 --> 05:54:29,790
and guests staying this program.

3797
05:54:29,930 --> 05:54:31,670
I'm not on board with that.

3798
05:54:32,550 --> 05:54:33,610
Because that hits everybody,

3799
05:54:34,150 --> 05:54:36,010
that isn't getting an incentive from it,

3800
05:54:36,130 --> 05:54:39,250
and it hits our lowest paid people in this community,

3801
05:54:39,250 --> 05:54:41,250
are least affluent, the hardest.

3802
05:54:44,420 --> 05:54:51,400
I will also be supporting the measure and because of the data and the information that

3803
05:54:51,400 --> 05:54:52,220
we will be gathering.

3804
05:54:52,540 --> 05:54:59,320
So I will be very interested in the evaluation piece of this to really give us a clue

3805
05:54:59,320 --> 05:54:59,960
to what?

3806
05:55:00,000 --> 05:55:22,600
Correction, we should be going in. I understand council member Frederick's point, but there are people out there that purchase these products and they see some kind of benefit. They see some kind of savings. I have a solar panel system on my roof and it's very successful.

3807
05:55:24,560 --> 05:55:31,780
So it's the evaluation that I'm really going to be looking at, so with Council Member Palmer

3808
05:55:31,780 --> 05:55:32,180
go ahead.

3809
05:55:32,500 --> 05:55:36,580
Well, I'm a little uncomfortable tonight with contingency contingency contingencies

3810
05:55:36,580 --> 05:55:37,320
being spent.

3811
05:55:38,180 --> 05:55:43,780
It's not free money and we need to be very careful what we're using for this is not an emergency,

3812
05:55:44,080 --> 05:55:47,140
this is not unplanned, we can budget for it next year.

3813
05:55:47,140 --> 05:56:02,280
We have RAPU who's there and I Mr. Frederick's math, I think it's 22 years to pay back for the plug-in and that equipment I would say would not last 22 years that just be my guess.

3814
05:56:03,260 --> 05:56:13,300
There's a lot of unknowns in this project and I don't like unknowns and I also would not be in favor of a gas franchise fee, sneaking in the back door.

3815
05:56:15,320 --> 05:56:17,920
Clerk case, so please call the roll.

3816
05:56:18,480 --> 05:56:19,260
Council member Keen.

3817
05:56:19,560 --> 05:56:21,160
I, Council member Milley.

3818
05:56:22,160 --> 05:56:23,000
Council member Wall.

3819
05:56:24,640 --> 05:56:25,560
Council member Fredericks.

3820
05:56:26,600 --> 05:56:27,480
Council member Palmer.

3821
05:56:29,140 --> 05:56:29,720
Council member Dory.

3822
05:56:31,320 --> 05:56:32,460
Council President Shubing.

3823
05:56:32,620 --> 05:56:32,940
Aye.

3824
05:56:33,380 --> 05:56:35,020
Motion passes five to two.

3825
05:56:35,300 --> 05:56:35,640
Thank you.

3826
05:56:36,060 --> 05:56:40,040
So at this point, it is five minutes to midnight.

3827
05:56:40,340 --> 05:56:44,760
We do have two more items on the agenda.

3828
05:56:44,760 --> 05:56:47,400
I'm going to just kind of check with my colleagues.

3829
05:56:47,740 --> 05:56:50,810
Do we want to power through or do we want to five minute break?

3830
05:56:51,900 --> 05:56:55,380
Power through. Power through. Okay, we are.

3831
05:56:56,040 --> 05:57:00,400
We are at seasonal parking restriction update Mr.

3832
05:57:00,720 --> 05:57:01,820
Tyler and me, my air.

3833
05:57:01,900 --> 05:57:05,820
Also, I did want to welcome you good morning instead of not getting there.

3834
05:57:06,100 --> 05:57:07,780
Yeah, not quite. The break would have helped.

3835
05:57:09,400 --> 05:57:11,460
But you have to say good evening, you're right.

3836
05:57:11,460 --> 05:57:15,420
Thanks for having us here for update on seasonal parking restrictions.

3837
05:57:16,000 --> 05:57:19,720
We're calling this attempt number two after study session last week.

3838
05:57:19,960 --> 05:57:22,720
I'm Tyler Neymar, Public Workstractor, Dan Plasga,

3839
05:57:22,780 --> 05:57:26,020
our Street Maintenance Managers, also here to help with the presentation.

3840
05:57:27,420 --> 05:57:28,460
We'll start with a little.

3841
05:57:28,580 --> 05:57:29,940
Only I get advanced slide.

3842
05:57:32,160 --> 05:57:34,260
Start with a little background on the ordinance.

3843
05:57:34,900 --> 05:57:37,200
As a reminder, alternate side parking in the way it works

3844
05:57:37,200 --> 05:57:39,620
as you park on the even odd sides of the street.

3845
05:57:39,620 --> 05:57:45,120
based on the calendar date when we are under the parking restrictions. Compliance is handled through

3846
05:57:45,120 --> 05:57:53,140
enforcement, and that is ticketing. But we do implement a warning period each season, season, where

3847
05:57:53,140 --> 05:57:59,580
information is supplied to people that are in violation of the ordinance. This is how we

3848
05:57:59,580 --> 05:58:04,640
started to kind of onboard the community to the seasonal parking restrictions and then later ticking

3849
05:58:04,640 --> 05:58:10,040
begins. These details have all over time. We started with a pilot in East Side Pioneers

3850
05:58:10,040 --> 05:58:16,760
neighborhood. In 2019 we did a city-wide adoption of that ordinance and then in 2021 the season

3851
05:58:16,760 --> 05:58:22,140
was shortened to November 1st or from November 1st April 1st and that is the date that we are

3852
05:58:22,140 --> 05:58:28,260
currently under. So at that point Dan's going to share some operational observations of this.

3853
05:58:30,500 --> 05:58:36,540
Yeah, thank you Tyler. So, you know, the background goals of the, uh, thanks here.

3854
05:58:37,040 --> 05:58:41,200
Background goals of the program are we really want to provide predictable, routine,

3855
05:58:41,920 --> 05:58:47,760
thorough, fast and equitable snow removal across the city. And what that means is congested

3856
05:58:47,760 --> 05:58:52,880
streets typically, you know, on towards the inner part of the city, what are seeing the same level of

3857
05:58:52,880 --> 05:58:59,360
services those neighborhoods, for example, more off-street parking. And it also provides routine,

3858
05:59:01,100 --> 05:59:05,460
expectation for residents and a proactive approach to our snow removal

3859
05:59:05,460 --> 05:59:11,220
challenges. And a couple other benefits the ordinance has one of those as

3860
05:59:11,220 --> 05:59:17,040
like law enforcement efficiency and second is street sweeping for those winter

3861
05:59:17,040 --> 05:59:19,160
days we might not have snow on the ground.

3862
05:59:21,800 --> 05:59:23,920
So what do we see from an operations

3863
05:59:23,920 --> 05:59:29,680
perspective? Well from the snow cloud driver seat we've seen a lot of success streets

3864
05:59:29,680 --> 05:59:35,700
are definitely cleaner, we're able to clean them better with cars parking on just one side.

3865
05:59:36,400 --> 05:59:42,460
Tiles are able to also move more quickly through the route, more efficiently, and less follow-up,

3866
05:59:42,460 --> 05:59:48,260
kind of day in and day out. We also seen fewer plow versus parked vehicle damage claims,

3867
05:59:48,540 --> 05:59:53,860
which can be difficult when you're trying to squeeze a large plow through streets with cars park

3868
05:59:53,860 --> 05:59:59,620
on both sides, less buried cars because people are moving their cars every day versus

3869
06:00:00,000 --> 06:00:20,000
I'm sitting on a street for weeks and then we get called to deal with those icy speed bumps that are pretty difficult to remove, come to January. And actually it's less towing for residents versus how we used to do in the past where we'd come in and post a street and clear it, we'd have to pull a lot of cars in that situation.

3870
06:00:21,680 --> 06:00:26,940
So, looking at ticketing data, this was the winner of 2425.

3871
06:00:28,120 --> 06:00:31,900
So, if you look at that, you can see the first part in November was the warning periods,

3872
06:00:32,000 --> 06:00:34,020
and all the tickets were issued during that period.

3873
06:00:34,680 --> 06:00:40,240
And then, as you might expect, the first kind of start of tolling,

3874
06:00:40,400 --> 06:00:43,480
there were obviously a lot of tickets as people were going to use to the ordinance.

3875
06:00:44,060 --> 06:00:48,460
And then, after that, ticketing kind of coincided with a snowfall event,

3876
06:00:48,460 --> 06:00:53,100
where we get snow and forest snow and ramp up so that we could

3877
06:00:53,100 --> 06:00:55,940
follow the streets and then that would subside.

3878
06:00:58,380 --> 06:00:59,640
And as far as analyzing

3879
06:00:59,640 --> 06:01:04,360
ticketing by vehicle, so number tickets per vehicle, you can see by far the

3880
06:01:04,360 --> 06:01:09,820
majority of tickets were just one per vehicle, you know, on the net trail off

3881
06:01:09,820 --> 06:01:14,040
very quickly after that. So what that shows us is, you know, people likely

3882
06:01:14,040 --> 06:01:17,500
got to tick it and like, oh, this is this is what the ordinance says or maybe

3883
06:01:17,500 --> 06:01:18,920
they're a visitor Rochester,

3884
06:01:19,700 --> 06:01:22,340
and then we're aware of the program at that point.

3885
06:01:24,740 --> 06:01:29,040
And so what do we hear feedback from residents

3886
06:01:29,040 --> 06:01:31,940
and people calling in and stuff?

3887
06:01:32,340 --> 06:01:35,120
You know, it's definitely increased over time now.

3888
06:01:35,320 --> 06:01:37,280
It's again, it's a routine occurrence.

3889
06:01:37,600 --> 06:01:39,420
Everyone or people understand how it works

3890
06:01:39,420 --> 06:01:40,400
and why it works.

3891
06:01:40,960 --> 06:01:42,840
The majority of the negative increase

3892
06:01:42,840 --> 06:01:45,480
that received are, you know, it's February.

3893
06:01:45,640 --> 06:01:47,640
There's no smell and I gotta take it.

3894
06:01:47,640 --> 06:01:52,140
So a lot of dissatisfaction around that ticketing and not being any snow on the ground.

3895
06:01:53,300 --> 06:01:56,420
And in the spring we're able to address that we're working with the police department

3896
06:01:56,420 --> 06:02:01,640
by saying, okay, there's no snow in the forecast, let's just spend the enforcement.

3897
06:02:02,720 --> 06:02:08,760
In the fall, that's a little more difficult to do because, you know, we have a state

3898
06:02:08,760 --> 06:02:12,920
at start, and then if you're to delay that, how to communicate that, obviously there's

3899
06:02:12,920 --> 06:02:19,240
street signs saying November one is one it started so you know one thought we had was

3900
06:02:19,240 --> 06:02:24,480
we could possibly extend that warning period farther until we get that first null

3901
06:02:24,480 --> 06:02:25,020
fall.

3902
06:02:33,400 --> 06:02:40,820
So public works has also been working with D.I. Director Mattella to take a

3903
06:02:41,340 --> 06:02:46,640
justice equity diversion inclusion audit look at the alternate site parking

3904
06:02:46,640 --> 06:02:52,960
ordinance. The purpose of this ought is to clarify and understand if disproportionate impacts

3905
06:02:52,960 --> 06:02:59,660
exist within the ordinance. There was some suspicion some years ago that that might be the case.

3906
06:03:04,630 --> 06:03:15,670
So to start, we map ticketing locations and are justice tracks. Those justice tracks are established based on specific levels of people of color, lower incomes and limited English proficiency.

3907
06:03:16,430 --> 06:03:22,710
When we layer those on top of each other, we actually do see a disproportionate impact as you can see on your slide.

3908
06:03:23,410 --> 06:03:30,730
41% of the tickets in the city came in 11% of the city area and 15% of the population.

3909
06:03:31,430 --> 06:03:34,250
You can see those areas indicated there in that kind of olive color.

3910
06:03:35,130 --> 06:03:39,810
So we started asking, okay, so what's causing this? This looks disproportionate.

3911
06:03:41,120 --> 06:03:47,480
And note as we move through here, the bold outlined areas, highlight the justice tracks,

3912
06:03:48,000 --> 06:03:52,420
that's meant to guide our visual. Again, those are the areas that have had 41% of the tickets

3913
06:03:52,420 --> 06:03:58,620
over this duration of ticketing. So when we look at building age by track, we do see a correlation

3914
06:03:58,620 --> 06:04:03,780
with older parts of the community. This is likely due to the characteristics of those communities.

3915
06:04:04,340 --> 06:04:09,560
They tend to have smaller lots, smaller lodges and driveways, and that leads to more on-street

3916
06:04:09,560 --> 06:04:12,220
parking thereby probably more ticketing.

3917
06:04:16,700 --> 06:04:20,520
When we overlay owner occupancy on the ticket areas,

3918
06:04:20,660 --> 06:04:23,880
again, we generally see lower or low, excuse me.

3919
06:04:24,120 --> 06:04:28,040
Lower owner occupancy rates in these areas of denser ticketing.

3920
06:04:28,400 --> 06:04:30,220
That's likely the higher,

3921
06:04:32,560 --> 06:04:33,500
excuse me.

3922
06:04:33,980 --> 06:04:37,420
Lower rates at lower owner occupancy rates

3923
06:04:37,420 --> 06:04:38,960
in the areas of denser ticketing.

3924
06:04:39,120 --> 06:04:42,200
That's likely means that we've got more turnover in occupancy

3925
06:04:42,200 --> 06:04:45,640
and potentially less ordinance awareness in those areas.

3926
06:04:46,440 --> 06:04:49,760
Also interesting to note that when we first went through this,

3927
06:04:50,020 --> 06:04:52,260
we tried to use the registration data

3928
06:04:52,260 --> 06:04:55,780
that was associated with the license plates of the tickets

3929
06:04:55,780 --> 06:04:59,340
and most of those were actually outside of city limits.

3930
06:05:00,000 --> 06:05:07,940
To do a GIS exercise, we had to pivot back to the ticket location as it was issued, the physical location of the ticket.

3931
06:05:12,380 --> 06:05:23,600
And lastly, looking at percent single family units, we're generally seeing lower owner occupancy, meaning higher occurrences of rentals and apartments, that results in probably more vehicles per address.

3932
06:05:24,360 --> 06:05:32,140
Also with a half parking spot per unit, that likely means that on street parking is utilized by visitors going to those residences.

3933
06:05:36,100 --> 06:05:43,480
So, a few other things to keep in mind related to this audit are practices do include more frequent enforcement near downtown,

3934
06:05:44,200 --> 06:05:50,140
but that is deemed as appropriate as poorly-plowed streets near downtown will impact the most people and the most traffic.

3935
06:05:50,960 --> 06:05:54,740
It's also a fact that we need to plow streets in Minnesota and Rochester,

3936
06:05:55,600 --> 06:06:01,100
and different areas of the city interact differently with those operations regardless of what our ordinances say.

3937
06:06:01,100 --> 06:06:16,220
The team still finds that seasonal parking is accomplishing its goals and there's nothing inherent in the ordinance as it stands today that is a disproportionate has more to do with the characteristics of the communities than it does with the ordinance itself.

3938
06:06:19,140 --> 06:06:23,880
So tonight we're looking for Council input on a couple items first. If you have

3939
06:06:23,880 --> 06:06:26,480
or can you hold them in it, you don't need my.

3940
06:06:26,580 --> 06:06:30,440
So you're going to put. Oh, you're jumping the gun. Okay, go ahead.

3941
06:06:31,120 --> 06:06:37,680
So we have any perspectives on the Jedi audit and also returning to the challenge that Dan Brown

3942
06:06:37,680 --> 06:06:44,260
of earlier about ticketing before snow falls. Other cities have implemented a sliding start date for seasonal parking restrictions.

3943
06:06:44,260 --> 06:06:52,760
This would be a potential tool for us to implement in the fall for these people that are getting tickets when snow hasn't fallen for the season yet.

3944
06:06:53,160 --> 06:06:57,140
One significant consideration with that is how to keep a warning period.

3945
06:06:57,780 --> 06:07:05,060
We've talked to parking enforcement in our police department and they really don't want the warning period to go away.

3946
06:07:05,100 --> 06:07:09,800
They see that as an important part of onboarding the community these restrictions each season.

3947
06:07:10,740 --> 06:07:17,180
If we were to start restrictions with an announcement, say within 48 hours of a forecast, it's

3948
06:07:17,180 --> 06:07:17,760
no fall.

3949
06:07:18,220 --> 06:07:22,220
They fear that we would generate a lot of confusion in the community without some sort of

3950
06:07:22,220 --> 06:07:23,140
onboarding period.

3951
06:07:24,000 --> 06:07:29,900
Alternatively, it does seem feasible to us that we could implement a warning period from

3952
06:07:29,900 --> 06:07:35,300
November 1st, where the ordinance sits today, up until 48 hours before the first forecast

3953
06:07:35,300 --> 06:07:40,500
deplorable snow and that actually wouldn't take an ordinance revision at all. That would just be

3954
06:07:40,500 --> 06:07:47,240
direction from you all to have us implement the ordinance that way. So with that, welcome your feedback.

3955
06:07:47,940 --> 06:07:53,420
Come to remember, Palmer. I'm not a fan of the program that we have in a couple of reasons in your

3956
06:07:53,420 --> 06:08:01,360
data that you had in 2024, we had nine events that you plowed. Overall three of them were two inches

3957
06:08:01,360 --> 06:08:08,740
more. So, to me, I'm moving my car left and right all the time for three events that are more

3958
06:08:08,740 --> 06:08:14,440
than two inches. And so, that doesn't make my sense and you just got done saying that we could

3959
06:08:14,440 --> 06:08:19,220
have a sliding start. The problem with that is that we always tell everybody we're sweeping the

3960
06:08:19,220 --> 06:08:28,040
street. That's why we have the early start on this assault removal. So, I don't know where you're

3961
06:08:28,040 --> 06:08:35,880
coming from on that. But for me, I understood that we are going to pull one side of the road and come back the next day and pull the other side of the road.

3962
06:08:36,260 --> 06:08:42,500
But what I see is that we pull both sides of the road, we pile the snow on the car that's on the other side.

3963
06:08:43,060 --> 06:08:45,480
I don't want to see if the savings there for us.

3964
06:08:46,500 --> 06:08:46,680
Thank you.

3965
06:08:47,060 --> 06:08:49,520
Take the second part. I was going to respond to some of the first stuff.

3966
06:08:50,280 --> 06:08:54,740
Not every winter is created equal right and the last few that we've had are fairly mild right.

3967
06:08:54,740 --> 06:09:01,160
The ordinances are designed to cover an average winter and a couple of our last ones haven't been that so

3968
06:09:01,160 --> 06:09:05,180
Yes, the community does struggle with having to move their vehicles in a

3969
06:09:05,180 --> 06:09:08,060
Lower than average snowfall winter. That's a fact, right?

3970
06:09:08,180 --> 06:09:12,720
But we need to put something in place that protects us in the event that we haven't above average winter

3971
06:09:12,720 --> 06:09:18,780
So that's why we've advocated when we did the ordinance. It was after or during a big snow

3972
06:09:18,780 --> 06:09:24,020
winter and so we decided to do that which we've goofed around with it

3973
06:09:24,020 --> 06:09:31,040
But to me, if we only have three events of two inches or less, and we can make an announcement

3974
06:09:31,040 --> 06:09:35,880
to say, hey, a snow emergency, you need to now park on Eve inside or now park on the

3975
06:09:35,880 --> 06:09:36,180
outside.

3976
06:09:36,540 --> 06:09:39,200
To me, that just makes more sense and is easier for people.

3977
06:09:39,720 --> 06:09:43,440
I've lived in North East Rochester where I had a single car drive.

3978
06:09:44,000 --> 06:09:48,340
In all my neighbors, that's a headache to move your car back and forth, left and right, and

3979
06:09:48,340 --> 06:09:48,820
do that.

3980
06:09:49,420 --> 06:09:53,140
So to me, it just makes more sense for us to make this announcement, the AIDS is a snow emergency

3981
06:09:53,140 --> 06:09:55,720
more than two inches, let's move your car.

3982
06:09:56,300 --> 06:09:57,480
Do you want to speak to that?

3983
06:09:57,800 --> 06:09:58,920
Because you were part of that really.

3984
06:09:59,080 --> 06:09:59,720
Yeah, we're not.

3985
06:10:00,000 --> 06:10:18,060
Okay. Yeah. I mean, we do a lot of research when we drop the ordinance forward to start, and I, you know, a couple of things, thoughts I have, you know, with this, with these trending warm or winters or similar ice, you know, we've had a couple bad ice events in that, those are almost, you know, more difficult to plow and sometimes less forecasted.

3986
06:10:18,640 --> 06:10:29,980
And I mean, there's streets where if, if that ordinance wasn't in fact, in effect, and let's say we, you know, call it, say starting tomorrow at midnight park on the odd side. Well, if people won't comply, you know, there's streets.

3987
06:10:29,980 --> 06:10:32,500
We're not going to get down if cars are in the way.

3988
06:10:32,860 --> 06:10:35,660
So in that brain is up to a towing component.

3989
06:10:36,780 --> 06:10:39,640
So it would be one, I guess, specific comment on that.

3990
06:10:41,960 --> 06:10:45,480
And I'm curious, you brought up towing.

3991
06:10:45,680 --> 06:10:50,080
Outside the downtown area, how many cars will we towed last year?

3992
06:10:50,740 --> 06:10:51,200
Not very many.

3993
06:10:51,740 --> 06:10:52,820
And that's part why.

3994
06:10:52,820 --> 06:10:54,540
That's by design, actually.

3995
06:10:55,200 --> 06:10:57,540
So the alternate side parking allows us to get away

3996
06:10:57,540 --> 06:11:02,420
was way less towing because in general we're able to plow the streets more effectively.

3997
06:11:03,100 --> 06:11:08,020
What we dealt with before was not being able to get down streets. People were getting delays

3998
06:11:08,020 --> 06:11:11,600
in service to get their streets plow because we couldn't physically get the plow through.

3999
06:11:11,820 --> 06:11:14,280
We had to wait for the tow truck to show up.

4000
06:11:14,980 --> 06:11:18,140
And on top of that we're talking about disproportionate impacts.

4001
06:11:18,620 --> 06:11:26,600
I have a hard time accepting that a ticket is a worse situation for somebody in these disadvantaged

4002
06:11:26,600 --> 06:11:30,120
communities than their car getting told and not being able to get to work in the morning.

4003
06:11:30,580 --> 06:11:35,000
So that's, that's some of the trade-offs that we've talked about as we continue to contemplate

4004
06:11:35,000 --> 06:11:36,980
the best way to implement self-law.

4005
06:11:37,060 --> 06:11:43,400
So I am in favor of snowmurt and sea, but I'll end with the last thing is you see snowball and cars

4006
06:11:44,160 --> 06:11:48,480
wrong count and they sit there for a week and nobody, no one, tickets them, no one,

4007
06:11:48,480 --> 06:11:53,680
toes them and you get people who are roof followers and they they call me and say,

4008
06:11:53,680 --> 06:11:58,720
Why is it this car being moved in that's really frustrating for people, again, who are actually

4009
06:11:58,720 --> 06:12:04,040
following the rules and there's cars that have lasted 10 days that I've seen that no one

4010
06:12:04,040 --> 06:12:04,420
cares.

4011
06:12:06,160 --> 06:12:10,920
Yeah, I mean, obviously, the plow dryer, I can feel that frustration too and I think a lot of

4012
06:12:10,920 --> 06:12:11,500
times it is.

4013
06:12:11,500 --> 06:12:12,580
It's definitely in the background.

4014
06:12:13,220 --> 06:12:17,520
I think it's kind of the last resort for pulling those cars because we're trying to give

4015
06:12:17,520 --> 06:12:19,560
people the benefit of the doubt.

4016
06:12:19,560 --> 06:12:23,420
you know, they are typically getting tickets, maybe multiple tickets,

4017
06:12:23,920 --> 06:12:28,500
PDs trying to get in contact with them, the tolling and impoling is kind of a last resort.

4018
06:12:29,400 --> 06:12:32,200
So, but I'd like to respond to your other question on the Paul and the other side.

4019
06:12:32,380 --> 06:12:35,860
I mean, if we were to literally, and that is some confusion, if we were to literally

4020
06:12:35,860 --> 06:12:40,380
Paul only half of the street, that other side we'd in touch would be so compact,

4021
06:12:40,680 --> 06:12:48,080
and that, you know, it wouldn't be able to be plowed. So we're still going to

4022
06:12:48,080 --> 06:12:53,820
not plow it tight to the cars, give people room, as much as possible, room to get out of it.

4023
06:12:54,040 --> 06:12:59,880
But obviously, we're going to clean up as much of the street as we can with, you know, what we can get to.

4024
06:13:01,220 --> 06:13:02,020
Councilmember Fredericks.

4025
06:13:03,060 --> 06:13:03,540
Thank you.

4026
06:13:03,960 --> 06:13:07,460
I'm going to enjoy arguing with Sean a little bit here with my back to him.

4027
06:13:08,480 --> 06:13:11,960
So efficiency is utmost important when it comes to snow removal.

4028
06:13:12,320 --> 06:13:16,120
I mean, you can't have drivers, alter, hit and thing, scratch and your head.

4029
06:13:16,120 --> 06:13:22,220
and how they're going to get things on. It's just, it's just not efficient. Having a definite start date is important.

4030
06:13:24,500 --> 06:13:29,700
A parking enforcement officer can forget to give him a ticket. I mean, they can tell when it's a problem.

4031
06:13:29,880 --> 06:13:34,020
They can tell when it's not a problem. They have jurisdiction to make decisions.

4032
06:13:34,540 --> 06:13:38,440
So we can trust their judgment. I would guess. I don't think they're just right around giving everybody,

4033
06:13:38,580 --> 06:13:43,340
running around giving everybody tickets for the heck of it. Consistency is super important.

4034
06:13:43,340 --> 06:13:47,200
People do not do a good job of keeping themselves informed.

4035
06:13:47,680 --> 06:13:52,400
That's just a recipe for failure to say we're going to put it out there when the time comes.

4036
06:13:52,700 --> 06:13:57,840
About 10% of the people will be tuning into said station or website or what have you.

4037
06:13:58,020 --> 06:14:00,480
That's probably an exaggeration, but I bet you it's less than 50.

4038
06:14:01,140 --> 06:14:04,560
So now you got major problems with vehicles on both sides, you're hit and stuff.

4039
06:14:04,740 --> 06:14:06,600
I mean, we don't need those problems.

4040
06:14:07,660 --> 06:14:12,540
People are going to complain. It's inevitable. No matter what, people are going to complain.

4041
06:14:12,540 --> 06:14:16,900
And I agree with you, what's a parking ticket 20 bucks?

4042
06:14:17,000 --> 06:14:18,340
I've got a few.

4043
06:14:18,340 --> 06:14:19,840
How much $35 for this?

4044
06:14:19,860 --> 06:14:20,580
Okay, $35.

4045
06:14:21,620 --> 06:14:24,960
I'm going to remember going forward to go back and forth.

4046
06:14:25,300 --> 06:14:27,000
That's going to, I'm like, that's on me.

4047
06:14:27,200 --> 06:14:29,740
I didn't read the sign that's on, I feel like every block

4048
06:14:29,740 --> 06:14:33,220
when you're in these residential parts town, be informed.

4049
06:14:34,660 --> 06:14:36,060
And I've got the tickets.

4050
06:14:36,080 --> 06:14:37,760
I've paid the tickets, so.

4051
06:14:38,480 --> 06:14:41,680
And like Dan said, the data shows that is the case, right?

4052
06:14:41,680 --> 06:14:44,640
Most people after they get their first ticket, they comply the rest of the sea.

4053
06:14:45,220 --> 06:14:46,700
And I'm used to it next year.

4054
06:14:46,820 --> 06:14:48,060
And then you're changing it the next year.

4055
06:14:48,240 --> 06:14:50,340
You got to stay consistent in five years.

4056
06:14:50,520 --> 06:14:51,960
Everybody just be used to it.

4057
06:14:52,000 --> 06:14:56,160
They'll complain a little less hopefully except for Sean and way we go.

4058
06:14:56,780 --> 06:14:57,660
That's my take.

4059
06:14:58,400 --> 06:14:58,880
Mayor Norton.

4060
06:15:05,120 --> 06:15:28,980
Good morning, everyone. Two things really quick. Did you do any data collection before to know about the difference between what we were doing before and now, as far as, and I was thinking, even with the diversity equity and inclusion, the Jedi ordinance, you're saying, like pre 29. Yeah, we didn't put any of those, we didn't track and map all those, Andrew. Okay.

4061
06:15:30,000 --> 06:15:33,340
certainly not from a diversity echoing standpoint, yeah.

4062
06:15:33,360 --> 06:15:34,760
But we did have the information that you were

4063
06:15:34,760 --> 06:15:35,820
towing much more frequently.

4064
06:15:36,600 --> 06:15:37,140
Yes, that's true.

4065
06:15:37,580 --> 06:15:39,180
OK, so that's what I was trying to get at.

4066
06:15:39,300 --> 06:15:40,480
You were towing more.

4067
06:15:40,660 --> 06:15:44,800
You don't know about the number of tickets before and after

4068
06:15:44,800 --> 06:15:46,600
or compliance before and after, because you

4069
06:15:46,600 --> 06:15:47,940
just weren't tracking that.

4070
06:15:48,100 --> 06:15:50,400
I mean, we would call in cars, same thing.

4071
06:15:50,400 --> 06:15:52,720
Cars that would sit for weeks

4072
06:15:52,720 --> 06:15:55,720
with all being moved, I mean, I'm certain there were

4073
06:15:55,720 --> 06:15:57,800
less tickets before the order.

4074
06:15:58,100 --> 06:15:58,520
OK.

4075
06:15:58,520 --> 06:16:03,060
but you were having a more difficult time plowing and I will just say you guys do a great job

4076
06:16:03,060 --> 06:16:08,820
plowing and keeping the streets clean, you know, it's rare that somebody complains that you haven't

4077
06:16:08,820 --> 06:16:12,860
gotten to their street and usually it's a cul-de-sac when I hear from someone, but so I think you do a

4078
06:16:12,860 --> 06:16:17,920
really good job. I did wonder, have you noticed and maybe you don't, maybe you don't check this,

4079
06:16:18,020 --> 06:16:22,860
but I often wonder if it ties a little bit to equity, if some of the people that are maybe

4080
06:16:22,860 --> 06:16:27,680
getting ticketed in the streets and the ones that are more than once because they didn't learn,

4081
06:16:27,680 --> 06:16:30,980
And I don't know that it was they didn't order, they may not have a driveway or garage.

4082
06:16:31,420 --> 06:16:35,960
And I'm wondering if you've seen any correlation between areas that don't have driveways

4083
06:16:35,960 --> 06:16:38,840
and garages were street parking as they're only option.

4084
06:16:39,160 --> 06:16:44,540
And then we're kind of punishing them for something we don't have a lot of control over.

4085
06:16:45,240 --> 06:16:47,760
But yeah, I think the answer is potentially right.

4086
06:16:47,900 --> 06:16:52,760
It was a little bit over generalization to say they have smaller driveways and smaller garages.

4087
06:16:52,980 --> 06:16:53,900
They may not have either.

4088
06:16:53,900 --> 06:16:54,280
Yeah.

4089
06:16:54,280 --> 06:16:54,600
You're right.

4090
06:16:55,040 --> 06:16:55,080
Right.

4091
06:16:55,080 --> 06:16:55,860
some of those areas.

4092
06:16:57,100 --> 06:16:59,940
So what we've talked about with a child is,

4093
06:16:59,960 --> 06:17:03,320
okay, if there's nothing inherently disproportionate

4094
06:17:03,320 --> 06:17:05,820
about the ordinance, what could we do?

4095
06:17:06,160 --> 06:17:07,580
And what we've started to talk about

4096
06:17:07,580 --> 06:17:09,640
is there a different way to engage or a different way

4097
06:17:09,640 --> 06:17:11,920
to educate on the ordinances,

4098
06:17:12,340 --> 06:17:14,560
like what would the next steps be there

4099
06:17:14,560 --> 06:17:17,220
to be able to successfully implement it in those?

4100
06:17:17,380 --> 06:17:18,580
Yeah, and I appreciate that.

4101
06:17:18,580 --> 06:17:19,800
That was gonna be my suggestion.

4102
06:17:20,100 --> 06:17:22,840
If there are some areas of areas who don't have driveways,

4103
06:17:22,840 --> 06:17:27,260
don't have garages, you know, is there a way we can get to them earlier with some education

4104
06:17:27,260 --> 06:17:28,120
to try to prevent?

4105
06:17:29,460 --> 06:17:29,800
Thanks.

4106
06:17:31,240 --> 06:17:32,080
Councilmember Miller.

4107
06:17:34,020 --> 06:17:35,620
I'll stick to the feedback side.

4108
06:17:36,200 --> 06:17:42,240
Perspectives on the Jedi audit, it seems like there's maybe not enough data to really draw the

4109
06:17:42,240 --> 06:17:46,300
lesson when you're looking at location and ticket versus where the registration falls.

4110
06:17:46,300 --> 06:17:53,080
So I suspect it's likely also building style design of the roadway is availability of

4111
06:17:53,080 --> 06:17:57,600
off street parking. So with that said, I think in some of these areas where there's

4112
06:17:57,600 --> 06:18:05,480
hired demand for on street parking, I think a rolling enforcement start date, but with a

4113
06:18:05,480 --> 06:18:09,820
continued warning period starting in November first, could really feel like giving people a

4114
06:18:09,820 --> 06:18:14,380
break, particularly in the downtown where parking is already at a challenge capacity level,

4115
06:18:14,380 --> 06:18:20,240
particularly for on-street parking. I think the warning period allows the police to have jurisdiction,

4116
06:18:20,580 --> 06:18:26,520
flexibility, but by not having to enforce writing tickets when there's no snow on the ground,

4117
06:18:26,740 --> 06:18:30,820
no snow in the seven day forecast, but it's after your November 1st, especially with our

4118
06:18:30,820 --> 06:18:37,080
trending climate, it seems like the winters have been quite mild. And I think it would reflect an

4119
06:18:37,080 --> 06:18:41,460
evolution of the spring practices that we've already implemented, ending the season early.

4120
06:18:41,460 --> 06:18:48,320
It feels consistent with that policy and I would support piloting that.

4121
06:18:48,460 --> 06:18:53,820
It also feels like we're all acknowledging that we have communications challenges as a city and so evolving our tools,

4122
06:18:53,900 --> 06:19:02,920
making sure that we're able to work with partners, employers, businesses, neighborhood associations to expand the capabilities of reaching people at the right time.

4123
06:19:03,440 --> 06:19:08,380
But with that said, when there's snow in the forecast, people pay a lot more attention to the forecast than they do to city communication.

4124
06:19:08,380 --> 06:19:13,700
so I think tying those things together with the warning system could be a really common sense of

4125
06:19:13,700 --> 06:19:17,040
evolution of the program that I could absolutely find myself supporting this.

4126
06:19:18,640 --> 06:19:20,640
Council member, Keen.

4127
06:19:21,040 --> 06:19:25,780
Yeah, I'll stick to the feedback, but first just thanks for like kind of doing this sort of like review

4128
06:19:25,780 --> 06:19:30,820
of these sort of programs instead of just waiting until complaint driven. This is just good to see.

4129
06:19:30,960 --> 06:19:35,840
As far as the Jedi stuff, again, it's good to see that going on and I would agree that they're probably

4130
06:19:35,840 --> 06:19:41,820
more neighborhood or kind of oriented than they are really like equity equity issues.

4131
06:19:43,660 --> 06:19:48,420
And I want to go back to the start of this. I mean, I think you undersell the value of

4132
06:19:48,420 --> 06:19:54,880
one we went to seasonal parking, and it's not just cleaner streets. It's less things on cars.

4133
06:20:00,300 --> 06:20:20,520
And I don't think it's all based on the fact that we really have had lighter winters. That input about like plowing things, but these ice events really have been. And when they get down, it once they get down, it's really hard to use those owners better to pre-treat before that happens than treating them.

4134
06:20:20,520 --> 06:20:26,440
And I also find that seasonal is, and we've got like six years of it now.

4135
06:20:26,960 --> 06:20:31,340
This idea of changing it to like, emergency and telling them is a snow emergency.

4136
06:20:32,140 --> 06:20:37,800
I just think, I haven't, the bad, the two examples I have that worked so dramatically

4137
06:20:37,800 --> 06:20:41,220
worse than Rochester that they just, you just can't get the word out.

4138
06:20:41,280 --> 06:20:44,800
So I think we have done a better job of training people over time.

4139
06:20:45,040 --> 06:20:49,060
So I'd stick with the seasonal, I like the idea of talking about, you know, we have a better

4140
06:20:49,060 --> 06:20:50,460
way to end the system now.

4141
06:20:50,460 --> 06:20:56,240
as far starting up, I still would suggest November 1st and, you know, whether we have these sort of, like,

4142
06:20:56,980 --> 06:21:02,620
two months or two weeks and maybe it's four weeks of just letting people know that, hey, you got to start,

4143
06:21:03,060 --> 06:21:04,340
follow up following these rules.

4144
06:21:05,520 --> 06:21:06,800
But I would like you to keep track.

4145
06:21:06,860 --> 06:21:10,680
I mean, is it really faster or is that just, is everyone so wild?

4146
06:21:11,000 --> 06:21:17,540
Is it really less dinged cars and where our emergency stuff is that better use of our equipment?

4147
06:21:17,540 --> 06:21:19,900
because I really do think the roads are better,

4148
06:21:20,060 --> 06:21:22,880
but that could be back to this other thing of lighter winters.

4149
06:21:24,040 --> 06:21:26,460
I don't think back in 2019 when we had the Polar Vortex,

4150
06:21:26,580 --> 06:21:28,180
I don't think that's why we did this.

4151
06:21:28,640 --> 06:21:32,040
We're working up to this for many years coming up to it.

4152
06:21:32,380 --> 06:21:34,880
But those are the years you do this stuff for.

4153
06:21:35,900 --> 06:21:38,840
And you better have it in place when you do get that next bad year.

4154
06:21:39,500 --> 06:21:42,400
So I'm more thankful for the program we have

4155
06:21:42,400 --> 06:21:45,440
than leaning into, let's start experimenting with it.

4156
06:21:45,540 --> 06:21:46,520
I'd rather not do that.

4157
06:21:47,420 --> 06:22:04,460
Thank you, councilmember. Any other feedback? I just want to thank you as well for the program and I don't get to say this very often. I agree with councilmember Frederick's on his approach to this so that's my feedback.

4158
06:22:04,460 --> 06:22:06,640
He was excited about that. Thanks, gentlemen.

4159
06:22:08,620 --> 06:22:08,920
Thank you.

4160
06:22:09,540 --> 06:22:12,540
We are going to move to council initiated actions.

4161
06:22:13,320 --> 06:22:18,980
I won. We have one council initiated action and that is arts economic impact.

4162
06:22:19,400 --> 06:22:21,480
Analysis council member Miller go ahead.

4163
06:22:21,720 --> 06:22:24,880
Thank you and I will try to keep this as brief as I can.

4164
06:22:25,060 --> 06:22:27,180
Realizing that we're already well in just Tuesday.

4165
06:22:28,100 --> 06:22:32,540
Thank you for our speakers who came to the open comment period to share feedback and

4166
06:22:32,540 --> 06:22:35,480
and perspective on the work that they've been doing.

4167
06:22:36,160 --> 06:22:38,220
I've been thinking about arts and culture for a little while.

4168
06:22:38,400 --> 06:22:40,500
I know this comes to us for discussion

4169
06:22:40,500 --> 06:22:43,900
was part of how does the city support arts and cultural efforts

4170
06:22:43,900 --> 06:22:47,460
as the indoor recreation presentation a few months.

4171
06:22:47,600 --> 06:22:51,000
Weeks ago, and I've been able to really

4172
06:22:51,000 --> 06:22:53,280
wonder about kind of the underlying foundational

4173
06:22:53,280 --> 06:22:55,960
organizations of different groups, different sectors

4174
06:22:55,960 --> 06:22:59,220
of our community, the Greater Rochester Arts

4175
06:22:59,220 --> 06:23:01,220
and Cultural Trust has been active for many years.

4176
06:23:01,220 --> 06:23:03,620
It's my understanding that they are wrapping up.

4177
06:23:03,840 --> 06:23:06,260
This operations this year, having done the statues

4178
06:23:06,260 --> 06:23:07,920
for equality, project with the mayor.

4179
06:23:08,360 --> 06:23:10,280
And so I've been wondering about what's next

4180
06:23:10,280 --> 06:23:13,460
and how might we engage the arts and cultural organizations

4181
06:23:13,460 --> 06:23:15,720
who are already doing great work in our community.

4182
06:23:16,580 --> 06:23:18,300
And so I was able to engage with them,

4183
06:23:18,340 --> 06:23:19,320
several points in this year.

4184
06:23:19,380 --> 06:23:22,120
They've been diligently working to bring everyone together,

4185
06:23:22,380 --> 06:23:25,560
do stakeholder mapping, seek funding, be denied funding,

4186
06:23:26,060 --> 06:23:27,960
go to the University of Minnesota's

4187
06:23:27,960 --> 06:23:34,640
for SNL's research center, find on alternative approach to do the strategic analysis, be able

4188
06:23:34,640 --> 06:23:36,980
to report and understand this impact in our community.

4189
06:23:38,560 --> 06:23:45,520
And it's my understanding that one of their sort of stop points has been the ability to

4190
06:23:45,520 --> 06:23:47,460
find an economic impact study.

4191
06:23:47,800 --> 06:23:51,380
They have a proposal, it's included in this attachment in this packet.

4192
06:23:51,900 --> 06:23:56,540
And it seems like a quite reasonable amount of contingency, they would not qualify until the

4193
06:23:56,540 --> 06:24:02,620
community building funds cycle, which does not open until January 2027. So in order to advance

4194
06:24:02,620 --> 06:24:08,460
the work of our many partners who we heard from the impact of arts and culture tonight in

4195
06:24:08,460 --> 06:24:12,920
an earlier hearing, I think this is a common sense way that we can advance this,

4196
06:24:13,460 --> 06:24:17,900
tied into the work that experienced Rochester has done with the tourism master plan work with a study

4197
06:24:17,900 --> 06:24:22,980
through the University of Minnesota and expand that look beyond just tourism impacts and

4198
06:24:22,980 --> 06:24:27,220
attainment, but also into the arts and cultural impact and economic impact for our community

4199
06:24:27,220 --> 06:24:29,980
of these 82 organizations that they've identified.

4200
06:24:30,900 --> 06:24:35,720
So I appreciate Councilmember Keene reviewing this with me supporting it and so we're bringing

4201
06:24:35,720 --> 06:24:41,320
this forward with the proposal that we would find this economic impact study as proposed by the

4202
06:24:41,320 --> 06:24:47,580
University of Minnesota Extension Office at a cost of $7,000 using 2026 contingency.

4203
06:24:47,580 --> 06:24:55,920
council member keen yeah I'll just add that again when discussion is what council member Miller I did have memory

4204
06:25:00,000 --> 06:25:03,880
A lot of other things that the council had sort of gotten involved with that didn't end up well.

4205
06:25:04,320 --> 06:25:11,120
And I think this one we structured such that it is the city contract with someone as opposed to giving money to somebody else to do something.

4206
06:25:11,900 --> 06:25:20,660
I think that this is a little bit modelled if you look at the sports foundations and how they try to look at how they approach the city for support.

4207
06:25:20,820 --> 06:25:29,900
They have the foundation, they have this advisory board. The arts are much more all independent players and not really having any sort of like

4208
06:25:29,900 --> 06:25:39,640
structure all way of dealing with the city, this doesn't solve that problem, but I think it gets you in those discussions towards how you could do this better.

4209
06:25:40,040 --> 06:25:40,780
Thank you.

4210
06:25:40,940 --> 06:25:43,000
Council Member Fredericks.

4211
06:25:44,000 --> 06:25:50,240
The arts, seeing adds a lot of character to community, and I enjoy it.

4212
06:25:50,380 --> 06:25:54,120
I'm obviously very not artistic, but I very much enjoy it.

4213
06:25:54,120 --> 06:25:59,000
I like the culture it brings to a city, I always find myself going to parts of every city

4214
06:25:59,000 --> 06:26:05,420
I visit that is very culturally art-facing, so on and so forth, so I plan and supporting

4215
06:26:05,420 --> 06:26:05,940
it.

4216
06:26:06,180 --> 06:26:08,000
What do we do with the information when we're done?

4217
06:26:09,020 --> 06:26:09,680
Yeah, so great question.

4218
06:26:09,820 --> 06:26:10,040
Mr. Miller?

4219
06:26:10,420 --> 06:26:10,920
Thank you.

4220
06:26:11,420 --> 06:26:16,240
So as part of the proposal, there is a presentation that would be included of the results, so

4221
06:26:16,240 --> 06:26:20,580
similar to the way that the researchers worked with the experience Rochester to provide

4222
06:26:20,580 --> 06:26:26,740
a presentation in that case in a video format and executive summary, we could receive that

4223
06:26:26,740 --> 06:26:31,440
presentation ourselves as a study session in coordination with the Arts and Culture

4224
06:26:31,440 --> 06:26:32,260
Steering Committee.

4225
06:26:33,380 --> 06:26:38,480
So that would be my recommendation is that we hear a live presentation which would be

4226
06:26:38,480 --> 06:26:43,400
already scoped into that study and I believe that they would target early next year to complete

4227
06:26:43,400 --> 06:26:44,740
that work.

4228
06:26:44,740 --> 06:26:50,500
Come from our team where you're going to understand how to just add to this that yeah, I think the softer

4229
06:26:51,080 --> 06:26:54,680
Value of this work is how it will it help the arts groups

4230
06:26:56,140 --> 06:27:00,260
Organize better and that's the softer side. That's not it's not like a

4231
06:27:00,260 --> 06:27:03,360
Plant outcome, but if they'd see a way of saying

4232
06:27:03,360 --> 06:27:08,920
We shouldn't be all these separate organizations all competing with each other. What's the way we can run together?

4233
06:27:08,960 --> 06:27:13,580
And I think that's what I'm looking for out of this a better way that the city interacts with

4234
06:27:13,580 --> 06:27:19,080
what we like a lot generally referred to as the arts, but there isn't a place you do that.

4235
06:27:19,180 --> 06:27:20,360
It looks a member.

4236
06:27:20,600 --> 06:27:25,100
It looks to me like to organize better than any group in this community after this evening.

4237
06:27:26,080 --> 06:27:29,060
So I think they have the ability to come together well.

4238
06:27:29,260 --> 06:27:33,440
And with that kind of power, they should be able to come up with some great things for this community.

4239
06:27:34,220 --> 06:27:35,100
Councilmember Wall.

4240
06:27:36,020 --> 06:27:42,860
Two of the people in open comment identified themselves as part of the Rochester Arts and Cultural Strategic Plan,

4241
06:27:42,860 --> 06:27:51,300
steering committee, how did the 12 become a part of this self-organized?

4242
06:27:51,700 --> 06:27:52,900
So council member Miller.

4243
06:27:53,140 --> 06:27:53,640
Thank you.

4244
06:27:53,900 --> 06:27:59,120
It's been a process of invitation and stakeholder mapping and an invitation to further participation.

4245
06:27:59,760 --> 06:28:05,700
So for those groups, those 12 organizations that opted in to more work, more meetings and

4246
06:28:05,700 --> 06:28:11,560
the others, it's my understanding have opted in to being engaged but not having the capacity

4247
06:28:11,560 --> 06:28:14,300
to participate in the steering committee's work.

4248
06:28:15,520 --> 06:28:16,980
Thank you, a second question.

4249
06:28:17,460 --> 06:28:20,680
How were the 82 arts organizations identified?

4250
06:28:22,740 --> 06:28:25,980
So, my understanding is that there was a broad survey.

4251
06:28:26,760 --> 06:28:32,020
An invitation sent out, obviously, while there's not an arts and culture steering committee

4252
06:28:32,020 --> 06:28:35,160
trusts Arts Council formally organized.

4253
06:28:35,400 --> 06:28:39,320
There's broad cooperation and knowledge across that space.

4254
06:28:39,320 --> 06:28:44,240
I'd also point to the work that Greg just on to identify stakeholders, so it's an evolution

4255
06:28:44,240 --> 06:28:45,340
of that work.

4256
06:28:45,760 --> 06:28:50,460
Many organizations are nonprofits, so there's public filings, and it's been an iterative

4257
06:28:50,460 --> 06:28:55,640
process to map out all of the relevant stakeholders across performing arts, visual arts,

4258
06:28:56,560 --> 06:29:01,860
businesses that have an arts component, educational programs, and working together across

4259
06:29:01,860 --> 06:29:03,460
this network mapping.

4260
06:29:03,760 --> 06:29:08,560
And so much of that work and I participated in a meeting where it was literally, are we missing

4261
06:29:08,560 --> 06:29:13,480
anyone, what of these 12 organizations, who do you know, who is not represented here and building

4262
06:29:13,480 --> 06:29:18,620
that out in collaboration with the researchers from the Chris Nelson Center at Kira?

4263
06:29:19,400 --> 06:29:23,820
So the survey will go to just these 82 organizations?

4264
06:29:24,120 --> 06:29:26,980
They would be the target of that economic study.

4265
06:29:27,400 --> 06:29:35,680
So for the economic impact, I was wondering what will actually be measured in Rochester from something

4266
06:29:35,680 --> 06:29:44,660
so massive as just for kicks when they bring in 3,000 families doesn't include the wonderful

4267
06:29:44,660 --> 06:29:53,400
Latino fest and what that brings over a long weekend doesn't include independent music

4268
06:29:53,400 --> 06:29:58,120
studios of eight panel teachers.

4269
06:30:00,000 --> 06:30:16,980
Really? It's weird. I think it's a great question. I appreciate you raising it. I think that there is a question of who's not here and that can be added, but at least from the project approach as presented in this proposal, it is really trying to clarify what's being surveyed.

4270
06:30:17,420 --> 06:30:26,220
So what is the art, what type of art is that organization representing visual art, performing art, physical art, cultural event.

4271
06:30:27,200 --> 06:30:30,340
What kinds of services and activities and that will be subjective?

4272
06:30:31,680 --> 06:30:35,360
How many employees is that organization employing?

4273
06:30:35,420 --> 06:30:38,600
Full-time part-time, what is the total organizational spending annually?

4274
06:30:39,460 --> 06:30:44,280
How many artists have been supported, helped, involved, and so for an organization that is doing performance?

4275
06:30:44,360 --> 06:30:48,840
So I mean, I would suspect that that includes the number of participants for those events.

4276
06:30:48,840 --> 06:30:55,960
And then it allows the flexibility of additional survey questions that get to that.

4277
06:30:56,140 --> 06:30:59,440
What is the, what is the size scope impact?

4278
06:31:00,120 --> 06:31:06,100
Take it sales, perhaps, right, other, other features that are not universal to the organizations,

4279
06:31:06,280 --> 06:31:07,920
but are attempting to get at that impact.

4280
06:31:09,520 --> 06:31:15,780
And any, any study, I mean, I'm sure we could never define a perfect study that we would,

4281
06:31:15,780 --> 06:31:20,820
forever be refining it to figure out whether the individual piano teacher who, to just

4282
06:31:20,820 --> 06:31:26,940
two afternoons a week out of their home fits within that impact. I mean, we do have to draw

4283
06:31:26,940 --> 06:31:35,120
a line somewhere or we'll never get started. This felt well anchored into a scientific method

4284
06:31:35,120 --> 06:31:41,040
with a research organization that is well known and gave a defined project scope that is

4285
06:31:41,040 --> 06:31:46,800
at a reasonable amount. So that's why I felt comfortable bringing this forward. It felt like

4286
06:31:46,800 --> 06:31:50,180
the organizations that are active in this space had done quite a bit of due diligence.

4287
06:31:52,520 --> 06:31:52,600
May or

4288
06:31:52,600 --> 06:32:03,570
not. Yeah, I'm not opposed at all to this and I, but I just want to be clear, we have had for the

4289
06:32:03,570 --> 06:32:10,670
last 20 or 30 years, 20 years, the greater Rochester Arts and Cultural Trust, which was exactly what

4290
06:32:10,670 --> 06:32:14,190
you've just defined, which was a group of organizations,

4291
06:32:14,390 --> 06:32:17,530
and at one point the list was very long

4292
06:32:17,530 --> 06:32:19,770
of people from all the different arcs

4293
06:32:19,770 --> 06:32:23,570
or art organizations, including members of the city,

4294
06:32:24,130 --> 06:32:25,830
or Del Brady sat on that committee forever.

4295
06:32:25,850 --> 06:32:27,510
It had legislators as well.

4296
06:32:28,210 --> 06:32:31,810
And so as we move forward, I think it might be

4297
06:32:31,810 --> 06:32:35,230
who've the group to interview whose left of Grout,

4298
06:32:35,370 --> 06:32:38,150
there are four people, I think, we just said goodbye to one

4299
06:32:38,150 --> 06:32:46,350
left town about what worked and what didn't work so we don't make the same mistake and also

4300
06:32:46,350 --> 06:32:55,150
recognize that while this organization has been slowly disappearing over time and we are

4301
06:32:55,150 --> 06:33:01,010
self disappearing as of when there's a there's a talking trails thing that's getting done and

4302
06:33:01,010 --> 06:33:07,450
when that's done that organization intends to close down they do and have a long history of

4303
06:33:07,450 --> 06:33:14,890
in grants in this area. So I just I just really hope that whoever does this research will get a

4304
06:33:14,890 --> 06:33:21,970
hold of and I've got the names of who's left on that small committee that remains so that we don't

4305
06:33:21,970 --> 06:33:27,680
end up because the group you know I don't want to say fought with in itself but a little bit

4306
06:33:28,450 --> 06:33:32,900
didn't feel like it was doing for their group or was doing too much for another group and

4307
06:33:32,900 --> 06:33:48,900
You know, what I saw tonight with an art organization that was all here excited wanting to work together is what we need more of and and not what happened with with the other organization. So I would encourage them to reach out and get that information and include it.

4308
06:33:49,800 --> 06:33:50,620
Councilmember Doring.

4309
06:33:51,500 --> 06:34:02,140
I plan to support this the CIA as well. I would I would ask for an additional question to be included in the project approach and that would be the number of volunteers that the.

4310
06:34:02,140 --> 06:34:09,320
organization engages, that is not a, that also shows economic impact, right?

4311
06:34:09,720 --> 06:34:16,020
So, I would invite that as another tool and another metric to be explored.

4312
06:34:18,200 --> 06:34:20,360
To that point, Council Member Miller.

4313
06:34:21,160 --> 06:34:26,700
So, we're, we're proposing funding this at $7,000.

4314
06:34:26,700 --> 06:34:38,200
dollars and is a cure that's doing the project do we do we is there ability to have

4315
06:34:38,200 --> 06:34:44,660
input to the mayor's point and to council member Dorings point I mean it looks like we

4316
06:34:44,660 --> 06:34:49,620
would be the sole funder of this correct correct and I think what we would do is direct

4317
06:34:49,620 --> 06:34:59,540
to take that proposed expansion of a volunteer number of volunteers and or volunteer hours to the proposal.

4318
06:35:00,000 --> 06:35:08,220
To make sure that that's feasible within the funding amount and then to enter into an agreement with them to proceed with the study.

4319
06:35:08,980 --> 06:35:14,940
And the mayor's point to get some of the history of previous groups as well.

4320
06:35:15,360 --> 06:35:28,100
So I would think that that's probably outside of the scope of the proposal directly, but would be feedback and direction to the steering committee members to pursue those connections, and I'm hearing that the mayor would like to be a resource to create those connections.

4321
06:35:28,100 --> 06:35:36,280
should they not happen. Sounds good. All right is there a motion on this? Sure. I'll make a motion

4322
06:35:37,820 --> 06:35:40,120
to draft staff to

4323
06:35:41,600 --> 06:35:46,500
enter into an agreement with the University of Minnesota Extension to advance the

4324
06:35:47,000 --> 06:35:53,620
Economic Impact Study the University of Minnesota Extension and allocate $7,000 from 2026

4325
06:35:53,620 --> 06:35:56,480
contingency funds to fund that work.

4326
06:35:57,080 --> 06:35:59,120
Motion made by council member Miller,

4327
06:35:59,280 --> 06:36:01,120
seconded by council member Fredericks,

4328
06:36:01,460 --> 06:36:02,460
any further discussion?

4329
06:36:02,800 --> 06:36:03,920
All of favor say aye.

4330
06:36:04,600 --> 06:36:06,440
Opposed say nay, motion passes.

4331
06:36:06,740 --> 06:36:07,780
Thank you.

4332
06:36:08,120 --> 06:36:12,140
Moving on to our ordnance second readings,

4333
06:36:13,060 --> 06:36:14,620
go ahead, Mr. Spindler Craig.

4334
06:36:14,760 --> 06:36:15,780
Thank you, Mr. President.

4335
06:36:15,960 --> 06:36:19,980
Item K1, an ordnance amending subsection one

4336
06:36:19,980 --> 06:36:23,080
and subsection two of subparagraph A

4337
06:36:23,080 --> 06:36:29,880
of paragraph 10 of clause E of section six zero point two zero zero point zero four zero

4338
06:36:29,880 --> 06:36:36,400
relating to floodplain overlay and various definitions of the unified development code for

4339
06:36:36,400 --> 06:36:41,680
proof. Second motion made by council member keen and seconded by council member

4340
06:36:41,680 --> 06:36:46,120
wall all in favor say aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye. Motion passes

4341
06:36:47,640 --> 06:36:54,860
councilmember Palmer grateful to his colleagues are very grateful that he had two

4342
06:36:54,860 --> 06:37:01,040
items under other business and he is relieving us of that so questions have

4343
06:37:01,040 --> 06:37:06,280
been answered great so is there a motion to adjourn so moved second okay I didn't

4344
06:37:06,280 --> 06:37:12,090
hear the who who made that motion motion made by councilmember Palmer and

4345
06:37:12,090 --> 06:37:17,410
by council member Miller all in favor say aye. Opposed say nay we are adjourned.