1 00:00:01,985 --> 00:00:05,485 Yes, sir. And someone this together. 2 00:00:07,905 --> 00:00:11,805 all good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to commissioner's court. I'm gonna call to order a special meeting. 3 00:00:12,195 --> 00:00:16,165 it's april 24th, 2025 at 1:00 pm and we're gonna move 4 00:00:16,455 --> 00:00:20,335 right into our agenda items. Agenda item number one is the public forum. 5 00:00:20,755 --> 00:00:24,605 this is the public's opportunity to address the county about any county matters. 6 00:00:25,205 --> 00:00:27,965 a couple people have signed up. Number one, mr. Brian mcneil. 7 00:00:32,965 --> 00:00:36,785 as you know, mr. Mcneil, keep your comments to about three minutes and speak 8 00:00:37,105 --> 00:00:39,305 right into the microphone there. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 9 00:00:41,815 --> 00:00:45,385 good afternoon, judge. Commissioners. Uh, thank y'all for hosting, 10 00:00:46,045 --> 00:00:50,005 uh, this today. I just, I didn't come with anything prepared as 11 00:00:50,345 --> 00:00:53,885 I normally do because I just wanted to actually speak from the heart this time. Um, 12 00:00:54,885 --> 00:00:58,865 the city of mclennan chisholm is, is growing. It is probably one of the most 13 00:00:59,445 --> 00:01:03,225 opened areas in rockwell county that has the opportunity for development 14 00:01:03,705 --> 00:01:07,325 to come. And contrary to prop, popular belief, 15 00:01:07,925 --> 00:01:11,625 I'm actually not opposed to development. I'm just pro 16 00:01:12,135 --> 00:01:15,365 smart development. And this is just not smart development. 17 00:01:16,635 --> 00:01:20,245 this overruns the infrastructure. It impacts the etj, 18 00:01:20,945 --> 00:01:24,805 it impacts the city. And when you start doing that, as we have learned 19 00:01:25,115 --> 00:01:28,965 with our county size, if it hurts one city, it's probably gonna 20 00:01:29,125 --> 00:01:33,085 hurt all the cities. While I do respect the american 21 00:01:33,205 --> 00:01:36,005 dream for people to make a living and make money, 22 00:01:37,605 --> 00:01:40,805 I also respect the opportunity to sit down 23 00:01:41,745 --> 00:01:45,085 and work out things and talk about things. I can tell you 24 00:01:47,275 --> 00:01:50,475 this many times. Dr horton has reached out to me, none. 25 00:01:51,435 --> 00:01:55,405 zero, not one, not one opportunity to say, hey, 26 00:01:55,605 --> 00:01:59,245 here's what we would like to do. Could we meet in the middle? 27 00:02:00,235 --> 00:02:04,105 it's great that they want to help build a water, uh, area for 28 00:02:04,325 --> 00:02:08,285 black land. I respect that too. But that doesn't help the county. 29 00:02:09,875 --> 00:02:12,445 that helps black land and their development. 30 00:02:14,585 --> 00:02:18,285 of course, they need to do that because if they don't have that, then they don't have water. 31 00:02:19,225 --> 00:02:23,165 so for them to offer that as a thing that they're offering, that's a 32 00:02:23,245 --> 00:02:27,005 necessity that you have to provide at this point, which you're not providing, 33 00:02:27,445 --> 00:02:30,945 is relief of traffic. Um, relief of 34 00:02:31,785 --> 00:02:35,765 the overrunning of our schools, the relief of overrunning of shopping centers, just the 35 00:02:35,925 --> 00:02:39,845 small things. I don't know what the wait time is every day at zanadu, but I can assure you, 36 00:02:39,965 --> 00:02:43,675 you'd probably go add another hour or two to it, because if it's 6,000 37 00:02:44,115 --> 00:02:48,075 plus homes in my head, an average of three cars, I can do the 38 00:02:48,155 --> 00:02:52,075 math real quick. That's another 18,000 cars, and we're just not 39 00:02:52,235 --> 00:02:56,145 there. We're not ready for it. Come to the table. That's all they gotta do. They 40 00:02:56,435 --> 00:03:00,225 can come to talk to you. They can come to talk to me. I bet we can find a collaborative way 41 00:03:00,445 --> 00:03:03,655 to work together. Thank you. Thank you. Brian mcneil. 42 00:03:04,705 --> 00:03:08,685 uh, next person signed up. Peter hanon. Han, you're gonna have to help 43 00:03:08,805 --> 00:03:12,065 me out with your last name, hanon hanon. Yep. 44 00:03:14,745 --> 00:03:15,185 excuse me. 45 00:03:21,475 --> 00:03:25,465 well, good afternoon, uh, commissioners and I appreciate the, uh, opportunities to 46 00:03:25,685 --> 00:03:29,445 speak. Thank you. Nothing prepared. But, uh, again, as a resident, 47 00:03:29,905 --> 00:03:33,845 uh, that will be directly affected by this development. I, 48 00:03:34,225 --> 00:03:38,045 uh, and my wife oppose it, and probably a good, many of my 49 00:03:38,485 --> 00:03:42,435 neighbors have informally expressed opposition to it, uh, live 50 00:03:42,725 --> 00:03:46,525 in high point ranch, which as I understand it, is directly across 51 00:03:46,825 --> 00:03:50,725 the street from the, uh, from this proposed development. So they will be a 52 00:03:51,065 --> 00:03:54,945 mfi not in my front yard, I dunno. But the, uh, opposition is, 53 00:03:55,225 --> 00:03:59,005 is based on, uh, the, uh, mayor's, uh, statement. The infrastructure 54 00:03:59,615 --> 00:04:03,385 isn't ready for it. We have a septic system, uh, 55 00:04:04,185 --> 00:04:08,005 uh, as of now, uh, water is, uh, questionable during 56 00:04:08,285 --> 00:04:11,955 the summer. I know we will get a, uh, hookup to the north central 57 00:04:12,745 --> 00:04:16,205 of the texas water supply system north, whatever it is, 58 00:04:16,985 --> 00:04:20,305 uh, later in the year. But, uh, 59 00:04:21,225 --> 00:04:25,075 the other infrastructure problem will be 5 48. That 60 00:04:25,365 --> 00:04:29,185 road just isn't ready for that amount of traffic. And, uh, 61 00:04:30,055 --> 00:04:33,565 we're going into, uh, construction on fi on, uh, 2 0 5. 62 00:04:35,005 --> 00:04:38,285 I mean, that's gonna be horrendous just for the traffic infrastructure out there. 63 00:04:39,545 --> 00:04:43,375 uh, I, I would hope that the developers would 64 00:04:43,725 --> 00:04:47,685 be, had to have second thoughts about selling somebody a home in, into that sort of 65 00:04:47,765 --> 00:04:51,595 an environment. I mean, if you are a true developer, you want 66 00:04:51,885 --> 00:04:55,645 to sell a home where people can actually live and feel comfortable. 67 00:04:56,805 --> 00:05:00,535 I mean, I dunno whether any of those 6,000 people were moving into those homes 68 00:05:01,335 --> 00:05:04,925 would feel comfortable coming into an undeveloped infrastructure like this. 69 00:05:05,665 --> 00:05:09,525 so I hope, uh, if the, uh, development goes ahead, that 70 00:05:09,725 --> 00:05:11,965 it will be postponed until, until the infrastructure 71 00:05:13,925 --> 00:05:17,725 situation is worked out. All I have to say, thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Comb. 72 00:05:18,585 --> 00:05:22,385 is there anybody else that would like to address the court? All 73 00:05:22,605 --> 00:05:26,445 right. Seeing no one, we'll move on to agenda item two. Appeal hearing regarding apportionment costs 74 00:05:26,765 --> 00:05:30,255 for river rock trails and dr. Horton appeal dated march 4th, 2025. 75 00:05:32,425 --> 00:05:36,355 I'd like to kind of go over the rules. This is the, uh, first ever 76 00:05:36,745 --> 00:05:40,445 in the state of texas appeal hearing of apportionment costs. 77 00:05:40,905 --> 00:05:44,885 so, uh, once again, rockwell county's breaking new ground. So the 78 00:05:45,085 --> 00:05:49,005 conduct of the hearing, uh, shall proceed as follows, the 79 00:05:49,205 --> 00:05:53,085 applicant's representative shall present the applicant's position by presenting 80 00:05:53,765 --> 00:05:56,365 testimony, evidence, and argument. In support of that position, 81 00:05:58,505 --> 00:06:02,005 the commissioner, court engineering representative, or his or her designee 82 00:06:03,015 --> 00:06:06,685 shall present the commissioner's court engineering representative's position by presenting 83 00:06:07,405 --> 00:06:11,045 testimony, evidence, and argument in support of that position. And the applicant's 84 00:06:11,605 --> 00:06:15,405 representative shall rebut the points made by commissioner's court engineering representative 85 00:06:16,425 --> 00:06:20,365 by presenting testimony, evidence, and argument in rebuttal to the position of the 86 00:06:20,485 --> 00:06:24,165 commissioner's court engineering representative. During this rebuttal, the applicant's 87 00:06:24,685 --> 00:06:28,405 representative cannot present new testimony, evidence, or argument 88 00:06:28,795 --> 00:06:31,805 that does not rebut the position of the commissioner's court engineering representative. 89 00:06:33,545 --> 00:06:37,485 now, there are time limitations. Each side shall have up to 15 minutes 90 00:06:38,465 --> 00:06:42,405 to present its case if there is only one item being appealed and there is 91 00:06:42,605 --> 00:06:46,605 more than one item being appealed, and an additional 10 minutes for each additional item 92 00:06:46,885 --> 00:06:50,845 being appealed up to a maximum of 45 minutes to present its case. 93 00:06:51,705 --> 00:06:55,525 the applicant shall have five minutes to present its rebuttal if there is only 94 00:06:55,745 --> 00:06:59,605 one item being appealed, and an additional two minutes for each additional item being 95 00:06:59,925 --> 00:07:03,715 appealed up to a maximum of 15 minutes. So each side 96 00:07:04,035 --> 00:07:07,805 will roughly have 45 minutes, and then the applicant will have 97 00:07:08,075 --> 00:07:11,985 15 minutes for a rebuttal. So, is the 98 00:07:12,205 --> 00:07:16,185 applicant ready? Uh, we are. Thank you. Please proceed, sir. 99 00:07:16,415 --> 00:07:20,385 thank you. Uh, mayor by anderson. Not represented. 1, 1, 1 100 00:07:20,965 --> 00:07:24,185 second. Art, we gotta yeah. Push the button and it should turn red. 101 00:07:25,905 --> 00:07:29,875 sorry. You, there you go. And, and standard rules. Mr. Anderson, 102 00:07:30,775 --> 00:07:34,655 tell us, tell us who you are. Sure. And, uh, art anderson. I'm with the winstead 103 00:07:35,115 --> 00:07:38,895 law firm in dallas, 27 28 north harwood, uh, representing 104 00:07:39,175 --> 00:07:43,175 the applicant and the developer. Um, I did have a question. 105 00:07:43,915 --> 00:07:47,455 um, in most of these hearings, I actually have been in a apportionment 106 00:07:48,415 --> 00:07:52,215 hearings before. So, uh, this, this is one of the first, 107 00:07:52,435 --> 00:07:55,875 but not the first, uh, in texas, the, um, 108 00:07:56,885 --> 00:08:00,845 most of the time the rules allow cross-examination of the opposing party's 109 00:08:01,575 --> 00:08:05,195 witnesses. And so I initially just wanted to request if the 110 00:08:05,635 --> 00:08:09,495 county will allow, uh, cross examination of its witnesses 111 00:08:09,775 --> 00:08:13,435 in this case or not. Yeah, cer certainly, certainly will. Okay. Um, um, 112 00:08:14,235 --> 00:08:17,815 I'm not certain there will be, 'cause I don't know what's gonna be said, but just wanted to be sure. 113 00:08:18,555 --> 00:08:21,735 um, do each of you have a copy of the exhibits? 114 00:08:23,355 --> 00:08:27,175 and there're basically things that everybody's already 115 00:08:27,685 --> 00:08:31,615 seen, but I'd like to kind of go through those, uh, to start 116 00:08:31,955 --> 00:08:35,835 out with. I, I think the other thing that's important to 117 00:08:36,055 --> 00:08:39,695 point out in a case like this, because it's really not set forth in the statute, 118 00:08:40,795 --> 00:08:44,535 um, but the burden of proof under the case 119 00:08:44,815 --> 00:08:48,535 laws on the county. So you don't, typically it's the plaintiff 120 00:08:49,355 --> 00:08:53,255 is the one who has the burden of proof. If it's a constitution, if it's proven to be 121 00:08:53,415 --> 00:08:57,285 an exaction, which I think that it is here, then the burden 122 00:08:57,485 --> 00:09:00,685 of proof as to whether or not there's this nexus and rough proportionality 123 00:09:01,915 --> 00:09:05,845 goes to the county. So not sure if it'll make a difference or not, but just wanted 124 00:09:06,045 --> 00:09:09,325 to make sure everybody knew that. So our exhibits are, are relatively 125 00:09:10,125 --> 00:09:13,965 straightforward. The first one is the statute itself. And so 126 00:09:14,205 --> 00:09:17,625 I, I think a critical piece here is if you look under 2 32 127 00:09:18,365 --> 00:09:21,835 0.1, 1 0 1 oh a, that 128 00:09:22,465 --> 00:09:26,365 the only time there can be an apportionment under the statute is if 129 00:09:26,565 --> 00:09:30,385 it deals with county infrastructure improvements. So 130 00:09:30,995 --> 00:09:34,745 virtually all of the items on the county's list, uh, 131 00:09:35,265 --> 00:09:39,185 in its regulations, uh, other than roads, and, and 132 00:09:39,425 --> 00:09:43,385 I'm not saying the roads are properly calculated here, but 133 00:09:43,625 --> 00:09:47,435 as a type of, um, exaction, none 134 00:09:47,725 --> 00:09:51,675 of them meet that standard, right? Because 135 00:09:52,775 --> 00:09:56,395 school buildings, not county infrastructure, broadband's not a county infrastructure. 136 00:09:57,855 --> 00:10:01,675 so that was the intent when the legislature passed this, it, it's modeled on 137 00:10:01,875 --> 00:10:05,755 section two, 12.904, the local government code. The, it deals with infrastructure, 138 00:10:06,685 --> 00:10:10,535 which we know what that is, right? It's roads, drainage, uh, 139 00:10:12,055 --> 00:10:14,595 you know, thing, things like that, waterline sewer lines. 140 00:10:18,085 --> 00:10:21,625 the second piece of it is it has to be roughly proportionate 141 00:10:22,165 --> 00:10:26,135 as approved by a professional engineer. So the only item 142 00:10:26,685 --> 00:10:30,685 that's in the county's list that has a report or 143 00:10:30,985 --> 00:10:34,965 a study or a prove up, is the road item. That's 144 00:10:35,385 --> 00:10:39,215 one outta 16 items. So clearly the legislature 145 00:10:39,925 --> 00:10:43,095 was saying that this has to be an infrastructure improvement, 146 00:10:44,305 --> 00:10:47,925 concrete pipes, however you want to define it. Um, 147 00:10:48,725 --> 00:10:52,495 so the only witness we're gonna call is gonna be a, a pe dealing 148 00:10:53,015 --> 00:10:56,885 with the road issues because I think it's pretty 149 00:10:57,355 --> 00:11:00,785 clear that none of the other 15 or county infrastructure, 150 00:11:01,805 --> 00:11:05,485 and so, uh, the county's not authorized to, uh, 151 00:11:05,925 --> 00:11:08,595 impose an exaction, uh, for those items. 152 00:11:10,165 --> 00:11:13,945 the other item I'd like to show, you know, I think y'all are aware under 153 00:11:14,545 --> 00:11:18,385 e that if there's an appeal, uh, the developer prevails 154 00:11:18,965 --> 00:11:21,965 is entitled to attorney's fees and cost. And 155 00:11:23,035 --> 00:11:26,645 under g well, let's go back. So 156 00:11:27,225 --> 00:11:31,165 f says that the section does not diminish or modify the 157 00:11:31,665 --> 00:11:35,415 procedures by chapter 3 95. That involves impact fees. 158 00:11:36,645 --> 00:11:40,585 so a lot of the exactions that are being considered here would be considered to be 159 00:11:40,765 --> 00:11:44,625 impact fees that are not authorized by statute. And that's what chapter 160 00:11:44,825 --> 00:11:48,305 3 95 of the local government code is. And then 161 00:11:48,945 --> 00:11:52,745 g it says the section does not increase or expand and shall 162 00:11:53,065 --> 00:11:56,925 not be interpreted to increase or expand the authority of a county 163 00:11:57,185 --> 00:12:01,085 to regulate plats or subdivisions under this chapter. So that, where that 164 00:12:01,285 --> 00:12:05,165 plays in, as y'all know, uh, the county commissioners met about two weeks 165 00:12:05,425 --> 00:12:09,195 ago and denied four preliminary plats that have been submitted. A list 166 00:12:09,485 --> 00:12:13,445 of reasons were provided by your counsel and one of them 167 00:12:13,965 --> 00:12:17,235 involved not paying the proportionality fees. 168 00:12:18,185 --> 00:12:22,075 and we really don't know what those are right now anyway. But what, 169 00:12:22,435 --> 00:12:26,325 what that means is, is that the county cannot make that a 170 00:12:26,475 --> 00:12:30,405 requirement of a plat approval is separate 171 00:12:30,545 --> 00:12:34,525 and apart. And so if you 172 00:12:34,645 --> 00:12:35,705 look at exhibit two, 173 00:12:39,115 --> 00:12:43,025 that y'all are familiar with this 'cause y'all passed it, but in, uh, 174 00:12:43,675 --> 00:12:47,205 this is the county's subdivision regs under section 175 00:12:47,715 --> 00:12:51,575 five point 10.1 a that lists the 16 items. 176 00:12:52,945 --> 00:12:56,925 so we do have time limits, but I think we can dispose of most of these relatively quickly. 177 00:13:00,465 --> 00:13:04,185 and then just the next part is exhibit three, uh, 178 00:13:04,625 --> 00:13:08,285 was the appeals request. Four is the county's response. 179 00:13:09,505 --> 00:13:13,355 and then the last one is, is a response that we made, 180 00:13:14,345 --> 00:13:17,215 um, march 4th, 2025 to those items. 181 00:13:18,425 --> 00:13:22,085 um, I think it's important to point out, I think one of the speakers said, 182 00:13:22,465 --> 00:13:26,195 you know, whether horton has, um, attempted 183 00:13:26,805 --> 00:13:30,605 to cooperate or work with the local jurisdictions, I think there's zero 184 00:13:30,935 --> 00:13:34,825 doubt that they have sign spent significant time and effort to 185 00:13:35,045 --> 00:13:38,485 do that. They've met with the county folks, they've met with, 186 00:13:39,185 --> 00:13:43,035 uh, the folks from different cities, the utility providers. Um, they've 187 00:13:43,575 --> 00:13:47,205 spent significant amount of money and a significant amount of time, 188 00:13:47,985 --> 00:13:51,085 uh, and effort to try to address the county concerns. 189 00:13:52,265 --> 00:13:56,005 so I wanna point out that in exhibit five, uh, which addresses 190 00:13:56,565 --> 00:13:59,895 each of the items, um, there was an offer 191 00:14:01,075 --> 00:14:04,765 that was made to make a contribution without waiving 192 00:14:05,125 --> 00:14:08,965 our legal rights to object to it, to, uh, fm 4 5 4 8, 193 00:14:10,375 --> 00:14:14,125 which is the, uh, report by your professional 194 00:14:15,005 --> 00:14:17,985 engineer that was prepared in course with the statute. Um, 195 00:14:19,425 --> 00:14:23,045 and there was also, uh, and an offer at that time 196 00:14:24,435 --> 00:14:28,205 with regards to police, which is exhibit five, the second 197 00:14:28,635 --> 00:14:31,645 page. So the road was an offer to contribute, 198 00:14:33,305 --> 00:14:37,115 um, the 338,867 that 199 00:14:37,505 --> 00:14:41,425 the county had requested. And then for the 200 00:14:41,915 --> 00:14:45,075 sheriff piece, it was an initial offer of 529, 201 00:14:46,865 --> 00:14:50,805 um, 4 24. Um, the county did not accept 202 00:14:51,205 --> 00:14:55,055 those offers, and the county has rejected our plats. So those 203 00:14:55,405 --> 00:14:56,845 offers are no longer on the table. 204 00:15:00,265 --> 00:15:04,185 so going through the subdivision regs, I mean, yeah, the, the 205 00:15:04,405 --> 00:15:06,065 items that are there, um, 206 00:15:08,905 --> 00:15:12,905 all of them, I won't repeat for each one, but the only one that can 207 00:15:13,125 --> 00:15:17,105 potentially relate to what the statute allows 208 00:15:17,865 --> 00:15:21,355 is roads. None of the rest of them are county infrastructure. Okay. 209 00:15:22,305 --> 00:15:26,205 um, they're not owned by the county. Most, almost all 210 00:15:26,365 --> 00:15:30,175 of 'em have separate political subdivisions such as schools, right? 211 00:15:31,305 --> 00:15:35,245 so the, the county had a report that said we'd like for you to 212 00:15:35,405 --> 00:15:39,365 pay about $35,000 per lot per house 213 00:15:40,425 --> 00:15:43,925 to the schools. Well, there were so many problems with that. 214 00:15:44,515 --> 00:15:48,365 it's, you know, unbelievable in terms of how schools are funded by our legislature, 215 00:15:49,065 --> 00:15:52,745 how they're bonded. There's no individual assessment of that. Nobody 216 00:15:53,305 --> 00:15:57,245 has determined the, the actual impact. Um, I 217 00:15:57,365 --> 00:16:01,255 got two different school districts. Should it be for one, not for the other. There, 218 00:16:01,605 --> 00:16:05,005 there's no substantiation. More importantly, there's no professional 219 00:16:06,485 --> 00:16:09,925 engineering report of that issue, which is required by the statute. 220 00:16:11,105 --> 00:16:14,825 you know, counties and school districts are separate subdivisions under our 221 00:16:15,285 --> 00:16:19,165 constitution. They have separate powers. If the school district wants to impose, 222 00:16:19,745 --> 00:16:23,565 uh, a development fee, they can, I guess 223 00:16:23,765 --> 00:16:27,525 they could attempt to do that. But again, the, the, that's something for the schools, 224 00:16:27,985 --> 00:16:31,835 not for the county. The schools have a board of trustees counties have 225 00:16:32,125 --> 00:16:35,105 a county commissioner's court. Um, 226 00:16:36,375 --> 00:16:39,885 again, there's no individual assessment which is required. 227 00:16:40,595 --> 00:16:44,165 it's not just taking a bunch of data from somewhere. You have to do an individual 228 00:16:44,655 --> 00:16:48,485 assessment and is irrelevant really 'cause there's no professional engineering 229 00:16:48,805 --> 00:16:52,315 report. But clearly for legal reasons, that's invalid 230 00:16:53,715 --> 00:16:57,335 with regards. The number two is roads. Um, again, 231 00:16:58,035 --> 00:17:01,805 this is a state road's not a county road. County doesn't 232 00:17:02,205 --> 00:17:05,345 own it. I mean, yeah, county doesn't own it. Um, 233 00:17:06,755 --> 00:17:10,545 it's, it's simply not county infrastructure and our, 234 00:17:11,385 --> 00:17:14,725 um, witness will, uh, address the issue of proportionality. 235 00:17:16,025 --> 00:17:19,925 but if you look at the tia that was submitted to 236 00:17:20,045 --> 00:17:23,645 the county as part of this development, there is sufficient capacity 237 00:17:24,385 --> 00:17:28,305 in the fm 5 48, which I think is the road today to 238 00:17:28,525 --> 00:17:30,245 handle the additional trips from the development. 239 00:17:32,715 --> 00:17:36,705 now, it, it should be noted that the dedication 240 00:17:37,475 --> 00:17:40,975 of the right of way for the road is considered to be an exaction. Legally 241 00:17:42,305 --> 00:17:45,495 we're not objecting to doing that, making that dedication. 242 00:17:46,515 --> 00:17:49,615 so that's a, a value of approximately 50,000 243 00:17:50,685 --> 00:17:54,445 to a hundred thousand dollars for that right of way dedication. But again, we're not, 244 00:17:55,305 --> 00:17:58,385 um, disputing that. Um, police, 245 00:17:59,895 --> 00:18:03,885 again, not, it's not infrastructure, you know, our deputies 246 00:18:04,125 --> 00:18:08,085 and stuff like that. Um, and y'all know 247 00:18:08,245 --> 00:18:11,865 this, these costs are not paid by the developer on the front end. 248 00:18:12,785 --> 00:18:16,615 um, they are paid by taxes 249 00:18:17,625 --> 00:18:21,165 and as growth happens, uh, property tax revenues 250 00:18:21,745 --> 00:18:25,485 go up. Um, and, and that's typically how for 251 00:18:25,845 --> 00:18:29,555 most of these things that, um, these things are paid for. There's 252 00:18:30,045 --> 00:18:33,885 a lot of active growth throughout the state and governmental 253 00:18:34,965 --> 00:18:38,945 entities handle it and they handle it by the schools handle it. And the, 254 00:18:39,785 --> 00:18:43,765 um, sheriff or city, whoever's doing that also handles 255 00:18:44,245 --> 00:18:48,165 it. But it's not infrastructure not prepared by a professional engineer. 256 00:18:48,465 --> 00:18:52,315 so therefore it cannot be authorized. There's also no statute that 257 00:18:52,695 --> 00:18:56,585 authorizes this type of fee, um, 258 00:18:57,965 --> 00:19:01,915 dispatch and nine 11 radio communications. It's my understanding the county with true 259 00:19:03,375 --> 00:19:07,365 those two items as exactions that they were requesting. I, 260 00:19:07,605 --> 00:19:11,495 I think that's what the, the report said. Water, sewer, 261 00:19:12,285 --> 00:19:15,705 electric, open space drainage. Uh, again, um, 262 00:19:17,715 --> 00:19:21,695 none of these involve county infrastructure and are not legally valid. 263 00:19:22,075 --> 00:19:25,585 there's also no, um, prepared professional 264 00:19:26,625 --> 00:19:30,445 engineering report justifying any of those exact exactions. We 265 00:19:30,665 --> 00:19:34,585 agree with the county engineer that these will be addressed at 266 00:19:34,705 --> 00:19:38,145 the time of final plat construction plans. And it's kind of important to remember 267 00:19:38,715 --> 00:19:42,385 right now we're at the preliminary plat. So basically it's to show, 268 00:19:43,325 --> 00:19:47,305 uh, more conceptually what's gonna be out there. And as you prepare construction 269 00:19:47,585 --> 00:19:51,375 plans, you do the engineering, you basically delve deeper into 270 00:19:51,665 --> 00:19:55,525 those types of issues. And that's where those things are 271 00:19:56,105 --> 00:20:00,025 determined. And I think that's what you're counting engineer indicated was the 272 00:20:00,185 --> 00:20:03,325 appropriate way to approach that. We agree with that. Um, 273 00:20:04,695 --> 00:20:08,465 ambulance, fire broke, broadband natural gas, aerial controlled 274 00:20:08,905 --> 00:20:12,845 trash. Again, none of those involve county infrastructure, not 275 00:20:13,065 --> 00:20:16,395 legally vi valid. We've provided proof of service on those items. 276 00:20:17,925 --> 00:20:21,865 um, that's basically the legal arguments. 277 00:20:22,885 --> 00:20:26,645 um, hope my car's okay. So, um, 278 00:20:27,525 --> 00:20:31,525 do, is it appropriate now to call mr. Jeff miles or do 279 00:20:31,745 --> 00:20:35,725 you have any questions? No, no. Does anybody have any questions? And, and again, I didn't, uh, 280 00:20:36,105 --> 00:20:39,835 say it at the start, but any questions won't be, uh, won't 281 00:20:40,185 --> 00:20:44,145 be taken from your time. Counted against time. Yep. Okay. So yep. Call, call. I, I have questions, 282 00:20:44,405 --> 00:20:47,680 but can we wait till the end? Certainly can. Alright. Certainly can. 283 00:20:52,945 --> 00:20:56,725 and just curious, how much time do we have left? I don't think you have used 12 minutes 284 00:20:56,965 --> 00:21:00,725 and 54 seconds. That's pretty efficient. So you, you we're, we're gonna be really short, so you've got time. 285 00:21:00,975 --> 00:21:02,585 we're gonna be focused here. Um, 286 00:21:05,745 --> 00:21:08,865 you got that. Can you please, uh, 287 00:21:09,755 --> 00:21:12,715 give your name for the record? Yeah, 288 00:21:13,795 --> 00:21:17,725 yeah. Uh, jeff miles. And what do you do for a living? 289 00:21:18,505 --> 00:21:22,245 I'm an engineering consultant. And who do you work for? I work for myself, 290 00:21:23,105 --> 00:21:26,485 uh, miles consulting, llc. Are you licensed by the state? 291 00:21:27,265 --> 00:21:31,125 yes, I'm licensed. And are you considered to be a professional engineer? 292 00:21:31,705 --> 00:21:35,605 yes, I'm professional engineer licensed by the state of texas. So you would meet 293 00:21:35,805 --> 00:21:38,605 the criteria then under the statute? Oh, thank you. 294 00:21:41,025 --> 00:21:44,885 see if that works. Can you hear me okay? Separate 'em out a little. 295 00:21:46,345 --> 00:21:50,245 no feedback. Right. Can you hear us okay? No, you're, 296 00:21:50,525 --> 00:21:52,105 you're, you're good. Okay. Um, 297 00:21:55,865 --> 00:21:59,685 you are licensed by the texas, you're a professional engineer? I am. Okay. So you would 298 00:21:59,915 --> 00:22:03,875 qualify to provide testimony and evidence with 299 00:22:04,165 --> 00:22:08,065 regards to county infrastructure issues under the statute, correct? Yes. 300 00:22:09,425 --> 00:22:13,365 and do you have an engineering focus? Yes. Uh, civil engineering for 301 00:22:13,485 --> 00:22:17,325 land development projects. And over your career, how many subdivision 302 00:22:18,215 --> 00:22:22,045 plats have you been involved with? Um, probably over a thousand in a 35 303 00:22:22,405 --> 00:22:26,335 year career. Okay. So we're gonna focus on the road piece, 304 00:22:26,705 --> 00:22:30,285 as you heard me. Um, basically present at the beginning, 305 00:22:31,345 --> 00:22:35,285 uh, roads theoretically can be 306 00:22:35,765 --> 00:22:38,555 considered county infrastructure, correct? Correct. 307 00:22:39,945 --> 00:22:43,745 and for this case, was a traffic impact analysis prepared for 308 00:22:43,985 --> 00:22:47,865 the development? It was, was it submitted to the county? Um, 309 00:22:48,465 --> 00:22:52,455 not sure the county ever asked for it, quite frankly, so I don't recall. But you got one, we've 310 00:22:52,805 --> 00:22:56,645 got one may of 2024. We did one. What's the name of the 311 00:22:56,835 --> 00:23:00,625 perimeter road to the first two phases 312 00:23:01,545 --> 00:23:04,235 of the development? Yeah, it's, uh, farm to market road 5 48. 313 00:23:06,025 --> 00:23:09,765 and does perimeter road means it's adjacent? It's adjacent. And does the county 314 00:23:10,035 --> 00:23:13,555 have subdivision regs that basically address 315 00:23:15,065 --> 00:23:18,835 the platting and construction of perimeter roads for a development they 316 00:23:19,125 --> 00:23:22,945 do. And fm 317 00:23:23,165 --> 00:23:26,955 5 48, is that a county road or a state road? State of texas road. 318 00:23:28,625 --> 00:23:32,405 in your opinion, can the county require fees from a developer to improve 319 00:23:32,925 --> 00:23:36,325 a state road? No. Have you ever seen this situation before? 320 00:23:36,985 --> 00:23:40,445 no. How many lanes are in the existing road? Two lanes. 321 00:23:41,555 --> 00:23:45,525 alright, so let's focus real quick on the right of way. How much 322 00:23:45,685 --> 00:23:49,385 right of way is shown? It's being dedicated by the plats? Uh, 1.1 323 00:23:50,015 --> 00:23:53,965 acres. Okay. Now according to the 324 00:23:54,205 --> 00:23:58,195 tia, what is the capacity of the existing roadway? It's 325 00:23:58,485 --> 00:24:02,075 uh, 875 vehicles per hour per lane. Okay. 326 00:24:02,915 --> 00:24:06,255 that means that 875 vehicles could 327 00:24:07,265 --> 00:24:11,235 travel on each lane and still be safe and correct 328 00:24:12,225 --> 00:24:16,125 within an hour timeframe? Yes. So according to the 329 00:24:16,365 --> 00:24:20,265 tia, what's the peak hour number of vehicular trips generated by 330 00:24:20,485 --> 00:24:23,985 the 418 houses? 115, uh, 331 00:24:25,495 --> 00:24:29,255 trips, uh, going westbound in the morning towards state 332 00:24:29,605 --> 00:24:33,055 highway 2 0 5 and then 127 trips, 333 00:24:34,385 --> 00:24:37,785 uh, vehicles per hour going eastbound from 2 0 5 334 00:24:38,715 --> 00:24:42,355 back towards the neighborhood in the evening. And from 335 00:24:42,765 --> 00:24:46,045 a traffic impact methodology, the peak hour is typically 336 00:24:47,235 --> 00:24:50,635 when you would have the most cars coming out of the development? Correct. Okay. 337 00:24:51,745 --> 00:24:55,365 and so in your opinion, is there sufficient 338 00:24:55,965 --> 00:24:59,795 capacity in the existing two lanes of roads to handle the trips from 339 00:25:00,085 --> 00:25:03,745 this development? Yes. We're it, like I said, we, the 340 00:25:04,165 --> 00:25:07,325 capacity is 875 vehicles per hour per lane each direction. 341 00:25:08,545 --> 00:25:12,185 and we are roughly 13 to 14% of 342 00:25:12,595 --> 00:25:15,735 that total. And would 343 00:25:17,105 --> 00:25:20,845 the construction of additional lanes be required from 344 00:25:21,125 --> 00:25:22,185 this development? No, 345 00:25:31,705 --> 00:25:33,505 we pass the witness. We 346 00:25:40,705 --> 00:25:44,325 can. Uh, can you tell the, uh, court, 347 00:25:44,825 --> 00:25:48,365 uh, how many houses are planned for the full build out of the development? 348 00:25:50,195 --> 00:25:53,425 it's unknown at this time, but we've projected, uh, over 6,000. 349 00:25:55,315 --> 00:25:59,185 okay. And so the, uh, first two phases, uh, of this, uh, 350 00:25:59,495 --> 00:26:02,945 phase one a and one b are uh, just over 400 houses, 351 00:26:03,595 --> 00:26:07,435 correct? Correct. So the eventual build out will be 15 352 00:26:07,925 --> 00:26:11,225 times that amount? Correct. Okay. Um, 353 00:26:11,945 --> 00:26:14,745 and, uh, is that road, uh, 354 00:26:16,235 --> 00:26:20,035 able to handle the traffic, the expected traffic from 15 355 00:26:20,525 --> 00:26:24,485 times the amount of houses? Uh, they're in, uh, one a and one b? 356 00:26:25,825 --> 00:26:28,225 no, it is not. Okay. Um, 357 00:26:31,115 --> 00:26:34,925 pass the witness. Sure. So the engine, you've seen the engineering 358 00:26:35,305 --> 00:26:39,125 report by the county's witness, correct? Correct. And it's only 359 00:26:39,365 --> 00:26:43,305 focused on the proportionality and 360 00:26:43,525 --> 00:26:47,525 the impact on 5 48 from the 418 houses for the 361 00:26:47,685 --> 00:26:51,645 first two phases? Correct. Mr. Anderson, if you could scoot that microphone just a little 362 00:26:51,765 --> 00:26:54,725 bit clo it also projects in the courtroom. I, I apologize. 363 00:26:55,785 --> 00:26:59,725 so he, you know, mr. Ray was talking about development of the entire 364 00:27:00,605 --> 00:27:04,335 property, correct? Correct. The proportionality appeal that we're 365 00:27:04,685 --> 00:27:08,275 addressing here and what the county addressed in their report focuses 366 00:27:09,115 --> 00:27:12,465 just on the 418 houses and their impact 367 00:27:13,305 --> 00:27:17,075 on the roadway system. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay. And so at some 368 00:27:17,365 --> 00:27:21,095 point it's like most roads you get enough 369 00:27:21,375 --> 00:27:25,315 development, there will be road improvements that will result as 370 00:27:25,535 --> 00:27:29,445 part of that. Is that fair? That's correct. Okay. No further 371 00:27:29,845 --> 00:27:33,365 questions. I have one, uh, follow up judge. 372 00:27:33,985 --> 00:27:37,905 um, are you here today to provide, uh, testimony on 373 00:27:38,425 --> 00:27:42,125 any of the other, uh, 15 items in the county's apportionment letter? 374 00:27:42,495 --> 00:27:44,915 other than the, uh, road section? 375 00:27:47,665 --> 00:27:50,315 no. Okay. He, he's, the only thing he's 376 00:27:51,675 --> 00:27:55,595 qualified to testify under the statute is on rose, 377 00:27:56,505 --> 00:28:00,365 and that would apply to the county as well. No further questions 378 00:28:00,525 --> 00:28:04,145 here. Alright, mr. Anderson. Uh, 379 00:28:05,355 --> 00:28:09,285 it's still in your court. You've got plenty of time left. Is that I, I told you 380 00:28:09,425 --> 00:28:13,405 I'd be efficient and hopefully I have been. And I, I mean, I, I 381 00:28:13,525 --> 00:28:17,305 think we all know this, that this is really a legal issue. It's really not 382 00:28:17,565 --> 00:28:21,285 a proportionality issue with the roads. Could be one except 383 00:28:21,645 --> 00:28:25,525 it shouldn't, but it's cleared none of the other 15 items or county infrastructure, 384 00:28:26,245 --> 00:28:30,105 which is what the statute addresses. None of them have any 385 00:28:30,325 --> 00:28:32,905 support by professional engineer. Um, 386 00:28:35,405 --> 00:28:38,855 that I think that's the clear legal piece of this. 387 00:28:39,995 --> 00:28:43,655 you know, if if we have additional questions or need to address things, 388 00:28:44,035 --> 00:28:47,215 we, we will, but I think that that's where we are. 389 00:28:49,055 --> 00:28:50,115 all right. Does anybody have any questions? 390 00:28:53,385 --> 00:28:57,315 I've got at least one. I can hear you. I said 391 00:28:57,545 --> 00:29:01,455 I've got at least one. My name's lauren lichty. Um, 392 00:29:08,415 --> 00:29:11,995 in paragraph one of your 393 00:29:12,435 --> 00:29:15,035 response letter that you sent back, 394 00:29:16,895 --> 00:29:20,635 it says that drh will work with the school districts 395 00:29:20,945 --> 00:29:24,905 including reserving regarding reserving 396 00:29:25,515 --> 00:29:29,505 needed school sites within the larger development at the appropriate time, 397 00:29:30,015 --> 00:29:34,005 and will oversize infrastructure where needed to serve 398 00:29:34,615 --> 00:29:37,495 the school sites. Um, 399 00:29:39,655 --> 00:29:43,325 has the applicant reached any agreement with the school 400 00:29:43,885 --> 00:29:47,125 districts regarding its contribution for schools? 401 00:29:48,625 --> 00:29:52,005 um, its oversizing of infrastructure 402 00:29:52,665 --> 00:29:56,605 or other things, other items? Not, it's not, not as far as I 403 00:29:56,725 --> 00:29:59,885 know. The sites haven't been identified. Yeah. I think it's too early in the process 404 00:30:00,785 --> 00:30:04,725 for a development like this. It, that would come a 405 00:30:04,845 --> 00:30:08,725 little bit later in the process when the school district will say, we'd like to have a site 406 00:30:08,965 --> 00:30:12,885 here. Here's what, how, what we'd like to build. Do we want elementary school? Do 407 00:30:13,045 --> 00:30:17,025 we want a high school? You know, it's, it's a coordinated effort. It benefits the 408 00:30:17,245 --> 00:30:20,905 development right. To have schools nearby and it 409 00:30:21,285 --> 00:30:25,045 benefits the school district to have a developer who works with them. That's what this developer 410 00:30:25,525 --> 00:30:28,345 does all over the state. Alright. Well, 411 00:30:30,105 --> 00:30:33,875 I appreciate the response, but, uh, I'm not gonna argue those 412 00:30:34,225 --> 00:30:38,025 points with you, but the answer is, I take it is no, there's been no agreements with 413 00:30:38,265 --> 00:30:42,265 the schools. Yeah. With with the explanation I give, no, nobody would have 414 00:30:42,425 --> 00:30:46,185 an agreement with the schools at this part in the development. Okay. Well, I 415 00:30:46,675 --> 00:30:50,605 don't know if that's true or not. I mean, you say if you have some examples, I'll say 416 00:30:50,825 --> 00:30:54,825 nobody would. If you see, have some examples. I've seen, see, I've seen a lot of plat where 417 00:30:55,265 --> 00:30:59,145 they show school sites. Sure. Right. When it, when where you're in a position 418 00:30:59,395 --> 00:31:03,185 where it makes sense and the school district, the school district, the way usually 419 00:31:03,985 --> 00:31:07,615 approaches the developer first and says, 420 00:31:08,015 --> 00:31:11,985 we'd like to have a school in this particular location and here's what we look to 421 00:31:12,145 --> 00:31:15,965 have. And that's where they kind of work together and they work it out. Oh, 422 00:31:16,735 --> 00:31:20,105 have they had those discussions as a school district approached them? They, they have, 423 00:31:20,765 --> 00:31:24,725 as far as I know. Okay. Again, that's, the 424 00:31:24,945 --> 00:31:28,825 school districts will work that out. Their political subdivision, they know how to 425 00:31:29,565 --> 00:31:32,745 locate properties and plan for growth. That's what they do. 426 00:31:34,295 --> 00:31:37,725 okay. Um, another question. 427 00:31:39,045 --> 00:31:42,675 I think this, these two plats show 428 00:31:43,235 --> 00:31:47,095 418 homes, if I remember right. I think that's plats 429 00:31:47,575 --> 00:31:51,475 phase one a and one that should be about correct. Sure. And then 430 00:31:51,905 --> 00:31:54,505 as, um, mr. Miles 431 00:31:55,925 --> 00:31:59,225 identified, they're planning to build about over 6,000 432 00:31:59,935 --> 00:32:03,245 total. Not that don't have a certain number yet, but in this entire 433 00:32:04,565 --> 00:32:07,745 property, um, could you 434 00:32:08,755 --> 00:32:12,305 give us a projected build out time on that? Uh, 435 00:32:12,835 --> 00:32:16,325 like how long will it take based on your projections, 436 00:32:16,845 --> 00:32:19,665 which I would imagine you have your big company, um, 437 00:32:21,315 --> 00:32:24,955 because it affects a lot of this infrastructure. So do you have any projections 438 00:32:25,645 --> 00:32:29,515 about the time over which these first 418 439 00:32:30,715 --> 00:32:34,335 will be built out and the remaining, uh, 5,800 440 00:32:35,305 --> 00:32:39,125 or whatever it would be would be built out? Well, the real challenge to, to answer 441 00:32:39,445 --> 00:32:43,445 that question is we need to get plats approved and the plats were denied. 442 00:32:44,185 --> 00:32:47,965 so, well, you can answer from whenever they would be approved, assuming they would be, if you, 443 00:32:48,305 --> 00:32:52,165 I'm just asking, trying to get a feel for how long it's gonna take to build this out. If you can 444 00:32:52,325 --> 00:32:56,205 predict when that is for me. . Okay. So you're not gonna 445 00:32:56,405 --> 00:33:00,325 answer that question. Well, I did. How can I give you a date? I asked for it. How can 446 00:33:00,445 --> 00:33:04,055 I give you a date when you, when the county tell me is not approving plats? 447 00:33:04,685 --> 00:33:08,615 I asked. We can't develop until that happens. How long it take to build this out over time there? 448 00:33:08,985 --> 00:33:12,765 I'm, I'm sure I, I'm sure of nothing, I've never looked at dr. Horton's 449 00:33:13,085 --> 00:33:16,725 projects, but I would imagine a company like that projects 450 00:33:17,305 --> 00:33:20,885 how long it'll take to sell out these homes. Hey, david, do you have a range? 451 00:33:22,385 --> 00:33:25,585 uh, um, 452 00:33:27,945 --> 00:33:31,825 10 to 15 a month on 418 to do the 6,000, 453 00:33:33,405 --> 00:33:34,345 and that could be 454 00:33:39,005 --> 00:33:41,905 20 to 30 a month. I mean, it could be a, 455 00:33:43,975 --> 00:33:47,735 this could be a 15 year project, 20 year project. 15 456 00:33:48,245 --> 00:33:52,055 to 20 maybe years. Correct. Okay. 457 00:33:52,395 --> 00:33:56,185 thank you. Does anybody 458 00:33:56,465 --> 00:34:00,055 else have any questions? Uh, just one more second. I'm not, I anybody 459 00:34:00,545 --> 00:34:03,865 else can I, but I'm not, I think I have one more. Okay. Go, go ahead. 460 00:34:05,645 --> 00:34:05,645 um, 461 00:34:11,305 --> 00:34:15,285 um, I, I have stopped your time, just so, so you're aware. I I 462 00:34:15,405 --> 00:34:18,845 think we're all good, at least on the time part. Yes, sir. I think we're all good. 463 00:34:19,905 --> 00:34:23,805 so the, there were a list 464 00:34:23,945 --> 00:34:27,835 of these 16 items in the county health letter or from 465 00:34:28,035 --> 00:34:31,415 the environmental, uh, health coordinator. Um, 466 00:34:32,775 --> 00:34:36,515 it looks like most of those were not asking 467 00:34:36,935 --> 00:34:40,185 for money. Um, it looks like 468 00:34:42,775 --> 00:34:46,605 water, sewer, broadband, electric, 469 00:34:48,085 --> 00:34:51,835 esc and emi, fire, natural 470 00:34:52,705 --> 00:34:56,115 gas, drainage, animal control, 471 00:34:58,015 --> 00:35:02,005 trash and refuse dispatch. And nine 11 472 00:35:02,685 --> 00:35:05,285 gis service and radio communications, 473 00:35:07,065 --> 00:35:10,875 at least at this point, we're not asking for an apportionment. 474 00:35:12,305 --> 00:35:15,365 and I think the key language it, or at least 475 00:35:16,875 --> 00:35:19,785 significant language is in the statute, is 476 00:35:22,035 --> 00:35:26,005 that the developer bear a portion of the cost of county infrastructure 477 00:35:26,965 --> 00:35:30,885 improvements by the making of dedications, the payment 478 00:35:31,305 --> 00:35:34,895 of fees or the payment of construction costs. 479 00:35:36,225 --> 00:35:40,065 and I think those items, there was nothing, if 480 00:35:40,285 --> 00:35:44,165 I read the letter right, there was nothing in there requiring the 481 00:35:44,365 --> 00:35:47,995 payment of fees, the payment of construction costs or the developer's 482 00:35:48,685 --> 00:35:52,505 portion of costs. They dealt with things like, uh, for 483 00:35:52,725 --> 00:35:56,325 example, esc and emt. We wanted proof of service 484 00:35:56,955 --> 00:35:59,665 fire. We wanted proof of service. Uh, 485 00:36:01,415 --> 00:36:04,025 water and sewer had said resolved through project design. 486 00:36:06,305 --> 00:36:10,245 do you agree with me on that? That we're not asking for money on those things? Yeah, I agree with 487 00:36:10,325 --> 00:36:14,165 you. I don't think the county should have any of 488 00:36:14,365 --> 00:36:18,365 those items in the ordinance anyway. But the other ones, and I think 489 00:36:18,485 --> 00:36:22,145 most of 'em have been addressed by you, do a will serve letter or anything else, but 490 00:36:22,595 --> 00:36:26,485 they're really not appropriate for a proportionality appeal. I don't know why the county 491 00:36:26,965 --> 00:36:29,805 included them. Okay. But my point is 492 00:36:31,435 --> 00:36:34,265 they're not asking for money at this time, uh, 493 00:36:35,625 --> 00:36:39,525 as far as I can tell. And I think that's what the sta that's, and I think that's what 494 00:36:39,645 --> 00:36:42,545 the statute deals with. Yeah. So proportionality, appeal 495 00:36:45,045 --> 00:36:48,485 concerns, that sort of thing. Yeah. That's why they're really not appropriate 496 00:36:49,185 --> 00:36:52,705 to even be in the ordinance. Okay. Um, 497 00:36:57,275 --> 00:37:00,785 well I had another question, but I think you already answered it. Uh, 498 00:37:02,345 --> 00:37:05,285 mr. Anderson. So for right now, that's it 499 00:37:06,955 --> 00:37:09,925 from me. Does anybody else have any questions? 500 00:37:12,185 --> 00:37:14,225 we, we rest. Alright. Uh, mr. Ray. 501 00:37:18,795 --> 00:37:19,625 alright. Uh, 502 00:37:22,845 --> 00:37:26,145 I, uh, have handed out to the court, uh, a, uh, 503 00:37:27,905 --> 00:37:27,905 two 504 00:37:34,415 --> 00:37:38,325 thank you. I've handed out to the court, uh, two, uh, sets of 505 00:37:38,805 --> 00:37:42,265 documents. Uh, one is a brief, um, 506 00:37:43,155 --> 00:37:47,105 that is, uh, it's about 44 pages of 507 00:37:47,325 --> 00:37:51,265 content that goes into, uh, all of the different, uh, 508 00:37:51,605 --> 00:37:55,485 elements in the county's initial letter. Uh, and then the response letter 509 00:37:55,955 --> 00:37:59,525 from dr horton, uh, that we're calling the appeal letter. 510 00:38:00,385 --> 00:38:04,265 the second, uh, document is a list of, 511 00:38:05,025 --> 00:38:08,965 or is a, uh, printout of all of the exhibits that are cited. Uh, there's 512 00:38:09,645 --> 00:38:13,525 17 exhibits cited, uh, in the county's brief. 513 00:38:14,185 --> 00:38:18,145 um, 15 of those are in that packet. The other two 514 00:38:18,365 --> 00:38:21,845 were extremely long. Uh, and so we will provide those in electronic 515 00:38:22,485 --> 00:38:26,225 format rather than in hard format. Um, 516 00:38:27,265 --> 00:38:31,205 if you take a step back and, uh, boil this down to what we're really talking about, 517 00:38:31,945 --> 00:38:35,365 um, I I think it's been very clear from mr. Anderson 518 00:38:36,155 --> 00:38:39,825 that, uh, the real underlying issue is an issue of 519 00:38:40,255 --> 00:38:43,925 legal authority. Uh, and most of the brief, 520 00:38:44,505 --> 00:38:48,505 uh, goes into detail on legal authority related to, uh, 521 00:38:48,795 --> 00:38:52,505 each of the items that were in the county's initial letter. Um, 522 00:38:53,385 --> 00:38:57,205 it would take, uh, a long time to go over each of those elements, 523 00:38:57,945 --> 00:39:01,865 uh, uh, in, in that are explained in the 44 pages. Uh, 524 00:39:02,085 --> 00:39:04,925 but I'm gonna go over a couple of highlight, uh, high points, 525 00:39:06,185 --> 00:39:10,145 um, so that they're, uh, clear on the record, uh, for 526 00:39:10,365 --> 00:39:13,745 anybody who wants to come watch this later on. Um, 527 00:39:14,695 --> 00:39:18,365 first of all, some real very brief background about why we're here. 528 00:39:19,145 --> 00:39:22,555 um, the, uh, initially, 529 00:39:23,705 --> 00:39:26,885 uh, d horton, uh, approached the county, 530 00:39:27,865 --> 00:39:31,325 uh, and, uh, started the, uh, platting process, 531 00:39:32,145 --> 00:39:35,425 uh, for the river rock trails mud. Um, 532 00:39:37,025 --> 00:39:40,725 in november, uh, of last year, dr horton 533 00:39:41,135 --> 00:39:43,845 asked for, uh, they formally asked for a proportionality, 534 00:39:45,225 --> 00:39:49,085 uh, determination from the county. Um, about a month later, 535 00:39:49,625 --> 00:39:53,465 uh, december 13th, uh, the county sent over its 536 00:39:53,685 --> 00:39:57,445 letter, uh, which is in both of the sets of paperwork 537 00:39:57,955 --> 00:40:01,745 that, uh, you have in front of you, uh, the exhibits from dr. Horton and 538 00:40:01,965 --> 00:40:05,485 from the county. Um, and as part of the county's 539 00:40:06,325 --> 00:40:10,225 response, there were 16 infrastructure improvements, uh, listed, 540 00:40:11,025 --> 00:40:14,925 uh, specifically, and I know that you've all seen the letter, we've, uh, 541 00:40:15,115 --> 00:40:19,085 discussed this in, in open court. Um, the letter 542 00:40:19,765 --> 00:40:23,515 response, uh, from dr horton, uh, addressed 543 00:40:24,125 --> 00:40:27,965 each one of those. Um, and each one of the responses, 544 00:40:28,705 --> 00:40:32,305 uh, were different, um, one from another. But, 545 00:40:33,065 --> 00:40:36,505 uh, the most often repeated item, uh, came down to, 546 00:40:37,265 --> 00:40:41,025 um, a lack of authority, uh, the 547 00:40:41,395 --> 00:40:45,205 alleged lack of authority, um, based on, uh, d horton's 548 00:40:45,565 --> 00:40:49,505 reading, uh, of the meaning of the statute. What this comes down to 549 00:40:50,105 --> 00:40:53,985 is a difference in interpretation of a couple of words in 550 00:40:54,205 --> 00:40:57,105 the statute, uh, specifically county infrastructure. 551 00:40:58,705 --> 00:41:02,165 um, mr. Anderson is correct that most counties do not, 552 00:41:02,745 --> 00:41:06,625 uh, uh, or have not historically, uh, 553 00:41:07,275 --> 00:41:10,425 read that the same way that the county's interpreted it. Um, 554 00:41:11,425 --> 00:41:15,415 and our brief, uh, goes into detail about 555 00:41:16,345 --> 00:41:20,045 why, uh, the county's position is what it is, why we think that, 556 00:41:20,785 --> 00:41:24,525 um, infrastructure in the county does include those items. 557 00:41:25,705 --> 00:41:29,295 um, and we do have a relatively pure legal 558 00:41:30,005 --> 00:41:33,825 disagreement here about what it means, uh, when you say county 559 00:41:34,245 --> 00:41:38,105 infrastructure. Their understanding, uh, as, uh, 560 00:41:38,385 --> 00:41:42,285 mr. Anderson made very clear is that, uh, that means infrastructure 561 00:41:43,065 --> 00:41:47,065 that's owned by the county, um, the 562 00:41:47,285 --> 00:41:50,985 county, um, leadership in the, uh, 563 00:41:51,985 --> 00:41:55,405 at least in the, uh, department that, uh, initially sent out that apportionment 564 00:41:56,125 --> 00:42:00,065 letter, uh, disagrees with that position. And, uh, 565 00:42:00,305 --> 00:42:03,945 we believe, uh, the county, uh, employees who are, 566 00:42:04,385 --> 00:42:07,865 uh, who sent that letter, uh, and who have been dealing with this, um, 567 00:42:09,105 --> 00:42:12,835 uh, development, uh, for, uh, a while now, believe 568 00:42:13,325 --> 00:42:16,925 that that means infrastructure that is in the county geographically. 569 00:42:18,145 --> 00:42:21,675 um, and, uh, the, the brief goes into 570 00:42:22,185 --> 00:42:25,925 detail, um, by sa citing different, uh, sections of different 571 00:42:26,415 --> 00:42:30,265 codes, not just the local government code, but other codes as well, uh, 572 00:42:30,635 --> 00:42:34,195 that go, uh, that, that have other, uh, definitions 573 00:42:35,025 --> 00:42:38,795 and descriptions. Um, and, uh, also goes 574 00:42:39,115 --> 00:42:43,025 into detail on case law, uh, that has, um, 575 00:42:43,955 --> 00:42:47,705 interpreted some of those items. Um, and I think for 576 00:42:48,025 --> 00:42:51,625 it, it, it's probably, uh, the right time to tell you, um, 577 00:42:52,795 --> 00:42:56,685 that in the past, uh, that there, there really haven't 578 00:42:57,045 --> 00:43:01,005 been any cases, uh, from courts of appeals in texas that have 579 00:43:01,165 --> 00:43:04,585 interpreted those two exact words. Uh, but 580 00:43:05,785 --> 00:43:09,525 the, uh, section of the texas local government code that allows counties 581 00:43:09,945 --> 00:43:13,905 to, um, exact apportionment costs is 582 00:43:14,125 --> 00:43:16,985 relatively new. Uh, it's only a few years old. Um, 583 00:43:18,145 --> 00:43:21,985 but if you look back at the legislative history, and some of this is cited in our, 584 00:43:22,505 --> 00:43:26,285 uh, brief, uh, but, uh, when the legislature 585 00:43:26,965 --> 00:43:30,655 passed that a few years ago, uh, they did that to mirror image, 586 00:43:31,305 --> 00:43:35,075 uh, another statute that had been on the books for much longer. Uh, it's 587 00:43:35,365 --> 00:43:39,365 almost exactly word for word the same, uh, statute. And what 588 00:43:39,605 --> 00:43:43,385 that, uh, statute did was allow cities, uh, to 589 00:43:43,735 --> 00:43:47,345 exact, uh, fees, not, not impact fees, but, 590 00:43:48,065 --> 00:43:52,065 uh, apportionment, uh, fees that are similar. Um, 591 00:43:53,385 --> 00:43:57,105 and, uh, so for about 15 years, uh, 592 00:43:57,525 --> 00:44:01,265 14 years, um, cities could, um, 593 00:44:02,595 --> 00:44:05,405 apportion costs, um, from development, 594 00:44:06,665 --> 00:44:10,595 uh, but counties could not. Uh, and when the legislature, 595 00:44:11,705 --> 00:44:15,205 um, put the law into place that was cited, uh, earlier, 596 00:44:16,065 --> 00:44:20,005 um, by mr. Anderson, uh, which is, uh, local government code 597 00:44:20,245 --> 00:44:23,865 2 3 2 1 10, um, it did not 598 00:44:25,405 --> 00:44:29,405 specifically define that term, uh, about what counts as county infrastructure. 599 00:44:30,665 --> 00:44:34,545 it didn't, um, narrow the scope. Uh, and 600 00:44:34,945 --> 00:44:38,845 so we're in a position where, uh, because it's not 601 00:44:39,045 --> 00:44:42,245 defined in the law specifically, it's not defined, 602 00:44:43,105 --> 00:44:46,385 uh, or it's not interpreted by a court of appeal, uh, and, 603 00:44:47,425 --> 00:44:51,285 um, there is no ag opinion that addresses the meaning of that 604 00:44:51,485 --> 00:44:54,965 term. Uh, there's, uh, there's a legitimate 605 00:44:55,525 --> 00:44:59,325 difference in interpretation here. Um, we believe that the county's 606 00:44:59,765 --> 00:45:03,745 interpretation is, um, is not 607 00:45:03,965 --> 00:45:07,805 just defensible, but, uh, what the legislature intended. 608 00:45:08,545 --> 00:45:12,385 um, there, if you, in, if you read the 609 00:45:12,605 --> 00:45:16,425 statute to mean only infrastructure that's owned by the county, that's 610 00:45:16,845 --> 00:45:20,825 very narrow. I mean, we all know, uh, that the counties, uh, 611 00:45:21,655 --> 00:45:25,485 owned infrastructure is, uh, gonna come down to buildings 612 00:45:25,905 --> 00:45:29,795 and roads that are owned by the county, which is, uh, usually 613 00:45:30,505 --> 00:45:34,465 not nearly as extensive even as all the cities within the county. Uh, 614 00:45:35,105 --> 00:45:38,805 but if under that interpretation, there would be 615 00:45:39,705 --> 00:45:43,335 no government, uh, that would have the ability to exact 616 00:45:43,755 --> 00:45:47,425 apportionment costs, uh, from developments. Uh, 617 00:45:47,825 --> 00:45:51,765 and that's, um, we don't believe that that's what the 618 00:45:51,945 --> 00:45:55,525 law, uh, was intended to say. Uh, we understand 619 00:45:55,965 --> 00:45:59,685 obviously that there's a difference of opinion here, uh, on that. 620 00:46:00,025 --> 00:46:03,525 but, um, we believe that the, uh, um, 621 00:46:05,395 --> 00:46:09,065 that the, um, brief, uh, goes over that in 622 00:46:09,815 --> 00:46:13,615 relatively, uh, deep detail and we cite, uh, other, 623 00:46:14,305 --> 00:46:18,245 uh, case law from texas, uh, case law from the us supreme 624 00:46:18,525 --> 00:46:22,305 court regarding the extent of municipal power, um, 625 00:46:23,465 --> 00:46:27,295 and, uh, other parts of, uh, the texas codes 626 00:46:27,645 --> 00:46:31,445 that are relevant. Um, I'm not gonna go into a whole lot of detail 627 00:46:31,845 --> 00:46:35,725 there other than to say, yeah, we, we definitely disagree about the 628 00:46:35,925 --> 00:46:39,925 meaning of those two words. Uh, I will go into a little bit more 629 00:46:40,365 --> 00:46:44,135 detail about some of the specific, uh, items, 630 00:46:45,025 --> 00:46:48,585 uh, that, uh, mr. Anderson, uh, brought up. 631 00:46:49,425 --> 00:46:52,985 uh, number one is the school apportionment fees. Um, 632 00:46:53,905 --> 00:46:57,785 the county believes, uh, and I think it's clear through the county's actions to 633 00:46:58,005 --> 00:47:01,845 date, that the county, uh, believes that the county infrastructure does include, 634 00:47:02,905 --> 00:47:06,845 uh, the school district. Um, in part 635 00:47:07,085 --> 00:47:11,035 because the local government code section, the 2 3 2 1 10 does 636 00:47:11,325 --> 00:47:15,105 not nearly define, uh, county infrastructure. And, 637 00:47:16,145 --> 00:47:19,845 um, the schools that we're talking about here are within, 638 00:47:20,705 --> 00:47:24,545 uh, the geographic bounds of the county. Um, one 639 00:47:24,765 --> 00:47:28,585 thing that I do, uh, take some exception to in, 640 00:47:29,145 --> 00:47:32,305 uh, mr. Anderson's, uh, telling of, of, uh, 641 00:47:33,175 --> 00:47:37,005 where those numbers came from, uh, those were not made up 642 00:47:37,225 --> 00:47:41,065 by the county. Uh, in the initial letter that came from, uh, 643 00:47:41,305 --> 00:47:44,325 the development office, there was a, a stated amount of 15, 644 00:47:45,585 --> 00:47:48,945 almost $16 million, uh, for the first two, 645 00:47:49,905 --> 00:47:53,615 um, phases of the project. Uh, that was based 646 00:47:54,265 --> 00:47:57,605 on, uh, an exhibit that's in your packet, exhibit, 647 00:47:58,385 --> 00:48:02,125 uh, three a, uh, that's, uh, from the school district. 648 00:48:02,585 --> 00:48:06,365 uh, it's an older, uh, it's an email that 649 00:48:06,645 --> 00:48:09,535 relates to the, uh, calculation of student yield, 650 00:48:10,805 --> 00:48:14,445 expected student yield from houses in the royce city, isd. 651 00:48:15,745 --> 00:48:19,735 um, and the expected, uh, student yield, at least in that, uh, email, 652 00:48:20,505 --> 00:48:23,865 uh, was 0.5 students per house. Um, 653 00:48:26,025 --> 00:48:29,885 it, uh, I mean, the county has an obligation to be reasonable. I think, 654 00:48:30,105 --> 00:48:33,765 uh, one student for every two houses is an extremely 655 00:48:34,245 --> 00:48:37,905 reasonable number. Uh, some, uh, ca uh, 656 00:48:38,545 --> 00:48:42,505 school districts that have calculated that number for bonding purposes, uh, 657 00:48:42,725 --> 00:48:46,645 over the past few years or the past 10 years, have come in 658 00:48:46,765 --> 00:48:50,565 at much higher numbers. Uh, but it's very reasonable to, to take a middle 659 00:48:50,785 --> 00:48:54,745 of the road number of 0.5 students per house, uh, in, 660 00:48:55,425 --> 00:48:59,245 uh, uh, more of a bedroom community, uh, like the eastern half of 661 00:48:59,445 --> 00:49:03,375 rockwall county. Um, the number, uh, which 662 00:49:03,725 --> 00:49:07,305 is 75,591 per student, uh, 663 00:49:07,825 --> 00:49:11,725 did come directly from the, uh, superintendent of the royce city, 664 00:49:12,085 --> 00:49:16,085 isd uh, the former superintendent, the one, uh, there's a different person 665 00:49:16,365 --> 00:49:19,005 in that office now. Uh, but that email is in your packet. 666 00:49:20,705 --> 00:49:24,405 um, and I'm gonna, uh, in the 667 00:49:24,725 --> 00:49:28,325 interest of time, I'm just gonna hit the high points of a couple of these other items. 668 00:49:29,225 --> 00:49:33,125 we did discuss, uh, road infrastructure. Uh, there's obviously been some 669 00:49:33,365 --> 00:49:36,765 agreement to, uh, participate in the road structure, 670 00:49:37,745 --> 00:49:41,495 uh, or the, the, the payment for the, uh, uh, roads 671 00:49:41,845 --> 00:49:45,625 that are adjacent to the development, uh, the county, uh, 672 00:49:46,105 --> 00:49:49,845 on that section and several other sections. Uh, there was references 673 00:49:50,625 --> 00:49:54,565 in the appeal letter, uh, to lack of county authority to do it 674 00:49:54,685 --> 00:49:57,865 in the order in which it's being done. Um, 675 00:49:59,105 --> 00:50:03,065 in the, uh, section two of the brief, which is one 676 00:50:03,285 --> 00:50:06,685 of the longer sections of the brief, uh, we break down 677 00:50:07,345 --> 00:50:09,785 why, uh, the county's, um, 678 00:50:12,125 --> 00:50:15,945 proposed order, uh, is number one different from dr. 679 00:50:16,525 --> 00:50:20,455 horton's proposed order, uh, and why the county's proposed order 680 00:50:20,825 --> 00:50:24,445 of payment versus, uh, the timing of, uh, platting, 681 00:50:25,145 --> 00:50:29,045 uh, either approval or filing. Uh, while we believe that the county's, 682 00:50:29,665 --> 00:50:33,525 uh, letter and stance on that, uh, complies with state 683 00:50:33,905 --> 00:50:36,375 law, uh, and why that's reasonable, 684 00:50:41,965 --> 00:50:45,705 I want to talk about, uh, two other specific issues. 685 00:50:46,425 --> 00:50:50,225 uh, obviously there's been a lot of, uh, letters attached, uh, 686 00:50:50,445 --> 00:50:54,425 that are either will serve letters or can serve letters. But, uh, 687 00:50:54,665 --> 00:50:58,225 the two big issues that I'd like to talk about, uh, quickly are 688 00:50:58,905 --> 00:51:02,905 the issue with the fire and the ems, uh, contract. Um, 689 00:51:04,075 --> 00:51:07,685 there's obviously a disagreement about whether there is a valid 690 00:51:08,245 --> 00:51:12,105 contract in place between dr. Horton and mcclendon chisholm. Uh, and 691 00:51:12,325 --> 00:51:16,305 then I want to talk about the water contract, uh, and whether or not, uh, 692 00:51:16,625 --> 00:51:20,435 the water contracts that at least that we've seen so far, uh, from, 693 00:51:21,305 --> 00:51:24,695 uh, black land and from, uh, north texas, 694 00:51:25,745 --> 00:51:29,745 uh, amount to a will serve letter. Uh, and I wanna go through why 695 00:51:30,025 --> 00:51:33,965 we believe that they do not, um, rise to the level of an 696 00:51:34,165 --> 00:51:38,145 appropriate will serve letter. Um, but first fire and ems, um, 697 00:51:39,035 --> 00:51:42,885 this is in section three of the brief. Um, we believe that 698 00:51:43,045 --> 00:51:46,365 the, the, this, uh, section, this area, 699 00:51:47,065 --> 00:51:50,905 uh, equates to a, uh, a serious deficiency in 700 00:51:51,125 --> 00:51:54,825 the submissions. Um, emergency services, uh, 701 00:51:55,225 --> 00:51:58,645 are literally lifesaving infrastructure. Uh, the county, 702 00:51:59,385 --> 00:52:03,325 uh, does not own, uh, the fire department, but the county 703 00:52:03,835 --> 00:52:07,825 does pay contractually, uh, pay, uh, money to, 704 00:52:08,585 --> 00:52:12,105 uh, pay for fire and ems services. Um, 705 00:52:12,915 --> 00:52:16,785 there's disagreement, uh, apparently, uh, 706 00:52:17,055 --> 00:52:20,865 based on comments that were made in court, uh, I believe by, 707 00:52:21,305 --> 00:52:24,785 uh, d horton's witness here, uh, a couple of sessions ago 708 00:52:25,575 --> 00:52:28,925 about whether or not there is a valid contract with mcclendon chisholm. 709 00:52:29,905 --> 00:52:33,745 um, we have, uh, included in 710 00:52:33,965 --> 00:52:37,705 the agreement, uh, exhibit nine, uh, and 711 00:52:38,145 --> 00:52:41,965 10, and those are, uh, exhibits 712 00:52:42,525 --> 00:52:46,205 related to the initial contract that was signed by mclendon chisholm, 713 00:52:46,985 --> 00:52:50,905 and then a secondary, uh, exhibit that shows that, that, uh, 714 00:52:51,185 --> 00:52:55,085 the, at least the city council that's there now believes that they have 715 00:52:55,285 --> 00:52:59,265 walked that contract back. There is, uh, 716 00:52:59,735 --> 00:53:03,725 there have been statements made in court, uh, that dr. Horton believes that 717 00:53:04,955 --> 00:53:08,525 that was ineffective, uh, but there hasn't been any reasoning 718 00:53:09,085 --> 00:53:12,905 presented, uh, to show why they think that that contract is still in 719 00:53:13,285 --> 00:53:17,085 place. Um, section three of the brief, 720 00:53:17,665 --> 00:53:21,505 uh, goes into deep detail about why, uh, the 721 00:53:21,725 --> 00:53:25,685 county has legal authority to ask for that service or proof 722 00:53:25,965 --> 00:53:29,105 that that service is going to be there. As it stands right now, 723 00:53:30,135 --> 00:53:34,095 everything that, uh, has been presented to the county, uh, comes 724 00:53:35,015 --> 00:53:38,765 along the lines of emergency services, is that there was 725 00:53:39,085 --> 00:53:42,805 a contract, and at least one party to the contract believes 726 00:53:43,445 --> 00:53:47,105 that that contract is no longer valid. And I, I will point out, 727 00:53:47,545 --> 00:53:51,245 uh, just to get a little into the weeds on this one specific section, 728 00:53:52,465 --> 00:53:56,325 um, the mclennan chisholm agreement has conditions precedent in the 729 00:53:56,765 --> 00:54:00,445 contract, uh, that are required for, uh, the contract to become 730 00:54:00,835 --> 00:54:04,565 effective and to be valid and enforceable. One of those 731 00:54:05,105 --> 00:54:08,885 is that, uh, there must be tceq approval of a joint 732 00:54:09,195 --> 00:54:13,105 fire plan, uh, which hasn't occurred yet. Um, 733 00:54:13,865 --> 00:54:16,025 the other one is that the mud, um, 734 00:54:19,995 --> 00:54:23,865 well, the, uh, the other issue is that the mud was, 735 00:54:24,265 --> 00:54:28,025 uh, or the, uh, agreement with the mud was repealed before, 736 00:54:28,945 --> 00:54:32,115 uh, those conditions precedent became effective. 737 00:54:33,065 --> 00:54:36,765 uh, we believe that the city's action to repeal, uh, slammed 738 00:54:37,205 --> 00:54:40,925 the door on the effectiveness of that. I understand that there may be, 739 00:54:41,385 --> 00:54:45,045 uh, litigation, uh, between dr horton and the city of mcclendon 740 00:54:45,525 --> 00:54:49,165 chisholm. Uh, but as it stands right now, the county doesn't 741 00:54:49,605 --> 00:54:53,605 have any effective, um, will serve 742 00:54:53,885 --> 00:54:56,725 letter or any sort of evidence of a contractual, 743 00:54:57,945 --> 00:55:01,805 uh, relationship with any other, uh, fire or ems group. 744 00:55:07,385 --> 00:55:11,165 before I talk about water, let me talk about, uh, law enforcement funding very quickly. 745 00:55:11,825 --> 00:55:15,675 um, there was a section four of the brief, uh, goes into 746 00:55:16,185 --> 00:55:19,945 law enforcement services. Uh, the county's apportionment, um, 747 00:55:20,705 --> 00:55:23,665 is based on, uh, the number of, 748 00:55:24,905 --> 00:55:28,445 uh, people who, uh, are likely to live in that subdivision. 749 00:55:29,665 --> 00:55:33,465 um, the section four of the brief goes over the math about why 750 00:55:33,685 --> 00:55:37,465 we believe that, uh, two law enforcement officers, uh, 751 00:55:37,985 --> 00:55:41,925 is not enough to handle, uh, the number of houses that are 752 00:55:42,005 --> 00:55:45,665 gonna be built out there. Um, and that, uh, 753 00:55:46,025 --> 00:55:49,605 future, uh, tax income in subsequent 754 00:55:50,245 --> 00:55:54,005 years is not enough to pay for the actual burden. 755 00:55:54,985 --> 00:55:58,625 um, it takes a while to bring new officers on. 756 00:55:59,265 --> 00:56:03,225 uh, it takes, um, about a year and a half from the beginning to 757 00:56:03,445 --> 00:56:07,305 the end, from the time that there's a need identified to when people, uh, 758 00:56:07,585 --> 00:56:11,065 are actually full on deputies. Uh, and that is 759 00:56:11,605 --> 00:56:15,385 part of the length of the hiring process. Uh, but 760 00:56:16,155 --> 00:56:19,525 from the beginning to the end of that process, that's one period of time. 761 00:56:20,705 --> 00:56:24,405 the, uh, time that it takes for the county to actually add those people 762 00:56:24,945 --> 00:56:28,775 to be paid for in the next upcoming budget is another whole 763 00:56:29,445 --> 00:56:33,445 extended period of time. Uh, and so based on the number 764 00:56:33,785 --> 00:56:37,355 of houses that we're, uh, expecting in this, uh, development, 765 00:56:38,785 --> 00:56:42,785 at least a full build out just for 6,000 houses, um, 766 00:56:43,345 --> 00:56:47,165 having two deputies up front is still gonna create 767 00:56:47,725 --> 00:56:51,605 a massive lag issue, uh, with the ability to bring on officers 768 00:56:52,225 --> 00:56:56,215 and the ability to tax, uh, these new, uh, properties 769 00:56:56,905 --> 00:57:00,715 to pay for those people. Um, another, 770 00:57:01,585 --> 00:57:05,035 uh, lag issue, uh, in addition to the time 771 00:57:05,685 --> 00:57:09,645 required to, um, put out an, uh, a job, uh, notice 772 00:57:10,105 --> 00:57:14,085 and hire people. And, uh, the, the other, uh, timing issues that 773 00:57:14,285 --> 00:57:18,285 we talked about with, um, taxing and adding things to 774 00:57:18,565 --> 00:57:22,375 the upcoming, uh, year's budget is the fact that, uh, these 775 00:57:22,825 --> 00:57:26,475 houses don't get taxed right away. Uh, they, they're 776 00:57:27,265 --> 00:57:31,265 not gonna be taxed until after they're done with construction, uh, 777 00:57:31,485 --> 00:57:35,415 at least not the taxes that would be necessary to pay for, uh, additional 778 00:57:36,485 --> 00:57:40,305 deputies at the sheriff's office. So you have three different time lag issues, 779 00:57:41,105 --> 00:57:44,905 uh, that, uh, is a major point of disagreement on, 780 00:57:45,745 --> 00:57:49,485 um, when that payment should come and how much it should be. 781 00:57:50,105 --> 00:57:54,025 and we go into a great level of detail in section four about why, 782 00:57:54,825 --> 00:57:58,565 uh, the county's position is different from dr. Horton's. 783 00:58:00,425 --> 00:58:04,385 um, I'm gonna go 784 00:58:04,605 --> 00:58:08,075 ahead and skip to the last, uh, issue I'm gonna talk about at least here, 785 00:58:08,785 --> 00:58:12,375 uh, which is the water supply, and that's section five of the brief. 786 00:58:13,585 --> 00:58:17,565 um, there are several exhibits that go along with that, uh, exhibit 787 00:58:18,325 --> 00:58:22,205 14, 15, and 16. Um, but what it really comes down to, 788 00:58:22,425 --> 00:58:26,285 if you boil all of that down, uh, the county does have authority, 789 00:58:27,305 --> 00:58:30,375 uh, to ensure that new developments are gonna have water. 790 00:58:31,465 --> 00:58:35,405 uh, there's a disagreement here, obviously about whether or not that's appropriate 791 00:58:35,865 --> 00:58:39,645 for the apportionment, um, uh, process or if it comes 792 00:58:40,075 --> 00:58:43,615 with the platting, uh, process with the preliminary or final 793 00:58:44,155 --> 00:58:47,965 plat, uh, or engineering. Uh, leading up to the final 794 00:58:48,315 --> 00:58:52,025 plat, um, section, uh, six of the 795 00:58:52,575 --> 00:58:56,525 brief, uh, goes into detail about why we believe, uh, it's appropriately 796 00:58:57,235 --> 00:59:00,805 part of the apportionment process. Uh, the county's not asking 797 00:59:01,265 --> 00:59:04,415 for money, uh, like with many of the other utility items, 798 00:59:05,305 --> 00:59:08,925 uh, what we are asking for, uh, is a will serve 799 00:59:09,325 --> 00:59:12,595 letter. And, uh, those three letters, 800 00:59:13,625 --> 00:59:16,925 uh, that are, uh, 14, 15, and 16 in your packet, 801 00:59:17,985 --> 00:59:21,815 uh, do not add up to a will serve 802 00:59:22,385 --> 00:59:25,765 letter. Uh, they add up to a can serve letter, 803 00:59:26,465 --> 00:59:30,445 uh, but that can serve is dependent on a bunch 804 00:59:30,605 --> 00:59:34,595 of other things happening, uh, some of which, uh, we just 805 00:59:35,175 --> 00:59:38,265 don't have any evidence to show will necessarily happen. 806 00:59:39,665 --> 00:59:43,515 um, obviously, uh, black land does 807 00:59:43,955 --> 00:59:47,745 want to do this. Uh, there's no question about that. The 808 00:59:48,125 --> 00:59:51,405 question is whether or not they can show that they have, 809 00:59:52,425 --> 00:59:56,135 uh, contractual rights with, uh, north 810 00:59:56,485 --> 00:59:59,905 texas, and in turn, whether or not north texas has 811 01:00:00,905 --> 01:00:04,205 the subscription rights to that water from the sabine river authority. 812 01:00:05,225 --> 01:00:09,025 uh, and the, the things that have been provided to the county so 813 01:00:09,265 --> 01:00:12,785 far do not show that. Uh, in fact, they show, um, 814 01:00:14,655 --> 01:00:18,435 about as close to the opposite as you can get. Um, they 815 01:00:18,725 --> 01:00:22,545 do show that, um, uh, blackland obviously has enough water, you 816 01:00:22,765 --> 01:00:25,985 know, subscribe to enough water to support the people that are there now. 817 01:00:26,865 --> 01:00:30,605 uh, and, uh, apparently the idea here is that, 818 01:00:31,305 --> 01:00:35,225 uh, dr horton will pay for all the costs to get 819 01:00:35,445 --> 01:00:39,355 them up to speed, uh, up to the level where they have a new take 820 01:00:39,645 --> 01:00:43,305 point or a new pipe, um, that comes off of, uh, 821 01:00:44,735 --> 01:00:48,045 north texas's, uh, water supply, which comes from 822 01:00:48,745 --> 01:00:51,505 ney and from sabine river authority. Uh, but 823 01:00:53,115 --> 01:00:56,845 what the, what the, uh, documents do not show is that there 824 01:00:57,305 --> 01:01:00,955 is a, uh, contract that, 825 01:01:01,625 --> 01:01:04,545 uh, makes that 100%, um, 826 01:01:06,245 --> 01:01:09,725 reliable. And if the county, uh, approve, if the court 827 01:01:10,325 --> 01:01:14,185 approves, uh, of the, uh, the 828 01:01:14,415 --> 01:01:18,185 opposition here, uh, position and, uh, 829 01:01:18,465 --> 01:01:22,415 allows this, uh, development to become final and move forward. There 830 01:01:22,765 --> 01:01:26,595 is, uh, at least currently in the paperwork that the county has no guarantee 831 01:01:27,395 --> 01:01:31,315 that there's gonna be enough water for that development. There's 832 01:01:31,845 --> 01:01:35,645 a guarantee that, uh, they'll be able to provide the water that they're 833 01:01:35,925 --> 01:01:39,855 currently subscribed to, but that is nowhere near, uh, 6,500 834 01:01:40,845 --> 01:01:44,645 houses worth of additional water, much less other development 835 01:01:45,045 --> 01:01:48,685 that comes in, in the, uh, non, uh, residential 836 01:01:49,405 --> 01:01:53,105 portions, uh, that may be built out there. Um, and 837 01:01:53,885 --> 01:01:57,765 I know that water is the main issue that every development 838 01:01:58,325 --> 01:02:02,265 is talking about. Every county in this, in this whole state is, 839 01:02:02,625 --> 01:02:05,865 uh, dealing with is the lack of water. Um, 840 01:02:06,915 --> 01:02:10,825 I've dealt with that, uh, every single day for about two 841 01:02:11,045 --> 01:02:14,725 years, uh, for other clients that I've got, including negotiations 842 01:02:15,525 --> 01:02:19,225 with the sabine river authority. Um, and the 843 01:02:19,725 --> 01:02:23,545 documents that, that I've seen here, um, are, uh, in, 844 01:02:23,785 --> 01:02:27,175 in section five of the water supply or of the, uh, brief, 845 01:02:28,025 --> 01:02:31,865 we go into a lot of detail about, uh, why a can 846 01:02:32,085 --> 01:02:35,905 serve letter in this position, uh, is not the 847 01:02:36,125 --> 01:02:39,745 same as a will serve. And what the county has, uh, asked for, 848 01:02:40,705 --> 01:02:44,665 um, is a binding commitment. And the 849 01:02:45,125 --> 01:02:48,705 documents that are in front of you just don't add up to, uh, 850 01:02:49,165 --> 01:02:52,595 a binding commitment because there's no formal contract that 851 01:02:54,045 --> 01:02:57,625 ensurers that this development will be served either, uh, 852 01:02:58,195 --> 01:03:02,125 from north texas to blackland or from sabine river 853 01:03:02,325 --> 01:03:06,245 authority to north texas. Um, that's not to say they can't get 854 01:03:06,445 --> 01:03:09,905 it. I hope that they can get it, um, and 855 01:03:10,515 --> 01:03:14,415 time will tell. Uh, but right now everybody wants 856 01:03:14,965 --> 01:03:17,505 more water. Everybody needs more water. Um, 857 01:03:19,065 --> 01:03:22,885 the counties, uh, around you and, and, and to some extent in this county, 858 01:03:23,505 --> 01:03:27,245 um, there's, uh, groups and, uh, neighborhoods, 859 01:03:28,185 --> 01:03:32,165 uh, running up against, uh, the sub the limits of their subscription, 860 01:03:33,065 --> 01:03:36,695 uh, amounts. Um, I'm sure that you've all heard news about, 861 01:03:37,505 --> 01:03:41,035 um, um, construction moratoriums 862 01:03:41,815 --> 01:03:45,345 based specifically on the lack of water. Some of those are in 863 01:03:45,955 --> 01:03:48,955 this, uh, general service area, the water that comes from this watershed. 864 01:03:50,425 --> 01:03:53,845 um, and this watershed is part of rockwall 865 01:03:54,485 --> 01:03:58,385 counties in one watershed, parts in a different watershed, everybody has 866 01:03:58,955 --> 01:04:02,105 over subscription and under supply. Um, 867 01:04:04,425 --> 01:04:08,205 the, uh, that section of the brief though goes, uh, line by line through 868 01:04:09,385 --> 01:04:13,205 all of the documents that are included in that section, uh, 14, 15, 869 01:04:13,565 --> 01:04:17,045 and 16, and explains why, uh, the county believes 870 01:04:17,915 --> 01:04:21,745 that, um, there is not enough here to rise to 871 01:04:21,965 --> 01:04:25,825 the level of a will serve. And because of that, uh, we 872 01:04:26,045 --> 01:04:29,625 believe that the, uh, county has an obligation to, 873 01:04:30,625 --> 01:04:34,325 um, not move forward with a final approval, 874 01:04:35,025 --> 01:04:38,865 um, whether that's approval in the form of an order in 875 01:04:39,325 --> 01:04:42,965 response to this hearing or eventually, uh, approval related 876 01:04:43,365 --> 01:04:47,325 to the final plat. Um, and that's one of our 877 01:04:47,445 --> 01:04:51,445 areas of disagreement is whether or not this is appropriate 878 01:04:52,025 --> 01:04:55,705 for, uh, today's hearing or, uh, eventually for 879 01:04:56,205 --> 01:04:59,545 a private or for the, uh, final plat. Um, 880 01:05:03,825 --> 01:05:07,575 we believe that legally, uh, rockwell counties on, on solid 881 01:05:07,925 --> 01:05:11,885 ground, even though it is not, uh, a, a path that many other counties have 882 01:05:12,165 --> 01:05:15,885 taken, uh, since this, uh, law came to pass, 883 01:05:16,465 --> 01:05:20,345 uh, six years ago, um, based on the 884 01:05:20,565 --> 01:05:24,485 other, uh, statutes that we've, uh, provided in explaining the letter and the 885 01:05:24,645 --> 01:05:28,645 other case law. Um, and we would ask 886 01:05:28,865 --> 01:05:32,765 the county to, uh, the commissioner's court to enter an 887 01:05:32,965 --> 01:05:36,665 order, uh, after considering all of the documents and 888 01:05:37,165 --> 01:05:40,995 testimony and evidence, uh, that are presented today, uh, upholding 889 01:05:41,865 --> 01:05:45,545 the previous position that the county's taken on, uh, 890 01:05:45,905 --> 01:05:49,875 the apportionment issue in particular, uh, and just 891 01:05:50,165 --> 01:05:53,675 to remind the court that is a completely separate issue from, 892 01:05:54,465 --> 01:05:57,755 uh, the issues, uh, surrounding the, uh, disapproval 893 01:05:58,585 --> 01:06:02,525 of the preliminary plat and ongoing negotiations related 894 01:06:03,025 --> 01:06:06,805 to platting this apportionment. And the, the, the exact meant 895 01:06:07,565 --> 01:06:10,785 arguments are statutorily separate. Um, 896 01:06:11,745 --> 01:06:15,545 and there, there is bleed over. Obviously the, uh, that is the 897 01:06:15,795 --> 01:06:19,565 main point of disagreement is when those issues should come up. 898 01:06:20,265 --> 01:06:23,825 but we would urge the commissioner's court to read through, uh, 899 01:06:24,425 --> 01:06:28,365 the, uh, brief and the, um, exhibits 900 01:06:28,925 --> 01:06:32,485 that we've provided, um, most of which are the same exhibits 901 01:06:33,045 --> 01:06:36,985 that were provided by, uh, dr horton's counsel and 902 01:06:37,345 --> 01:06:41,125 to enter an order, uh, upholding the county's previous 903 01:06:41,605 --> 01:06:44,595 position and denying, uh, dr horton's appeals 904 01:06:45,665 --> 01:06:48,025 on, uh, 14 of the 16 points. 905 01:06:53,755 --> 01:06:55,125 does anybody have any questions for mr. Ray? 906 01:07:02,755 --> 01:07:06,505 okay. Hearing none, uh, mr. Anderson, you've got 15 minutes to 907 01:07:07,085 --> 01:07:10,965 rebut. Thank you. Um, you know, it's interesting, 908 01:07:11,125 --> 01:07:14,825 I've been to several hearings here where the county 909 01:07:15,345 --> 01:07:19,265 has complained and probably rightfully so, about not having as many powers, 910 01:07:20,705 --> 01:07:24,095 um, for example, as home rural cities have with regards to protecting 911 01:07:24,765 --> 01:07:28,435 the police power, uh, and, and how the legislature 912 01:07:29,225 --> 01:07:33,165 has addressed those over time, and that it's probably a 913 01:07:33,285 --> 01:07:37,235 legitimate concern. I think it's important to keep in mind that 914 01:07:38,395 --> 01:07:42,245 that is a fact. The constitution and the state statutes have greatly 915 01:07:42,605 --> 01:07:46,545 limited the powers of counties in general law 916 01:07:46,935 --> 01:07:49,565 towns to act without having expressed authority. 917 01:07:50,985 --> 01:07:54,045 and I'm not saying it's a good thing, I'm just saying it is what it is. 918 01:07:55,145 --> 01:07:59,065 and the brief, which I just got, so I had to skim through it, it 919 01:07:59,285 --> 01:08:02,455 wasn't provided to me ahead of time. The 40 pages, again, 920 01:08:03,435 --> 01:08:07,295 goes way beyond what the statute and the constitution allow 921 01:08:07,645 --> 01:08:11,235 the county to do. And I, I appreciate it. It's, 922 01:08:11,675 --> 01:08:15,070 it's well crafted. I usually don't spend that much time writing 923 01:08:15,725 --> 01:08:19,515 a brief like that one. But, um, the, the real crux 924 01:08:19,805 --> 01:08:23,635 of the issue, I think is to just read 925 01:08:24,545 --> 01:08:28,485 2 32 0.11 a. And I'll be honest 926 01:08:28,605 --> 01:08:32,425 with you, I, I really don't like it when lawyers say, 927 01:08:33,555 --> 01:08:37,545 I've done all these cases and I know how it's gonna end up and all that, but 928 01:08:37,765 --> 01:08:41,555 unfortunately, I'm gonna say it. So I've had, you know, four 929 01:08:42,295 --> 01:08:45,605 cases before the texas supreme court dealing with governmental 930 01:08:46,385 --> 01:08:50,205 powers. I probably have 20 court of appeals cases 931 01:08:50,825 --> 01:08:54,605 on infrastructure. So I have a pretty good idea. The courts know what infrastructure 932 01:08:55,215 --> 01:08:59,045 means. Okay? And probably another 35 or 40 933 01:08:59,245 --> 01:09:02,025 court of appeals cases, and this one's really simple, 934 01:09:04,015 --> 01:09:06,675 it's county infrastructure. Infrastructure means 935 01:09:08,665 --> 01:09:12,305 pipelines and or water lines. It's streets and in drainage, 936 01:09:13,725 --> 01:09:17,575 all those sorts of things that happened with the development. Okay? 937 01:09:19,325 --> 01:09:23,125 county infrastructure is simple, and I appreciate the strained attempt to 938 01:09:23,345 --> 01:09:27,035 try to make it something that it's not. And I appreciate where he wants to go think 939 01:09:27,385 --> 01:09:31,225 it shows a lot of creativity. But my experience is when you go before 940 01:09:31,625 --> 01:09:35,485 a court, they usually just look at what the worst common meaning is. 941 01:09:36,285 --> 01:09:39,695 the county is. You infrastructure is streets, 942 01:09:41,345 --> 01:09:45,255 culverts, water lines, sewer lines, okay? That 943 01:09:45,545 --> 01:09:49,425 if y'all, if you look at your traditional subdivision regs, that's what y'all deal 944 01:09:49,625 --> 01:09:53,225 with. That's what y'all regulate. The reason it's county infrastructure 945 01:09:53,965 --> 01:09:57,845 is not city infrastructure, right? Cities within their corporate limits can 946 01:09:58,125 --> 01:10:01,925 own and have dedicated all those types of improvements. That's, that's 947 01:10:02,345 --> 01:10:05,645 the distinction there. But the real critical piece here, I think is 948 01:10:06,645 --> 01:10:09,785 if you look at the statute. It, it involves, 949 01:10:10,925 --> 01:10:14,905 um, a condition of approval for a property development project 950 01:10:15,575 --> 01:10:19,105 that the developer bear a portion of the cost of county infrastructure 951 01:10:19,825 --> 01:10:23,645 improvements by the making of dedications. The payment of fees or 952 01:10:23,885 --> 01:10:27,545 the payment of construction cost, the developer's proportion of the cost 953 01:10:27,925 --> 01:10:31,665 may not exceed the amount required for infrastructure improvements 954 01:10:32,575 --> 01:10:36,405 that are roughly proportionate to the proposed development as 955 01:10:36,945 --> 01:10:40,725 approved by a professional engineer who holds a license issued 956 01:10:41,145 --> 01:10:45,045 under chapter 1001 occupations code. And 957 01:10:45,265 --> 01:10:49,005 it's retained by the county. And so the rebuttal basically is, 958 01:10:49,405 --> 01:10:52,985 and I, and I kind of skimmed this brief 'cause I didn't have it ahead of time, 959 01:10:54,485 --> 01:10:58,245 the county doesn't dispute that in order to have a valid, um, 960 01:11:02,275 --> 01:11:06,045 apportion ity appeals proposal like has been 961 01:11:06,325 --> 01:11:10,195 in this case, it's gotta be prepared by a professional engineer. That 962 01:11:10,485 --> 01:11:13,805 kind of relates back to the infrastructure, right? If, if you're gonna have 963 01:11:14,805 --> 01:11:18,755 a civil engineer that typically does construction drawings for streets and utility 964 01:11:19,245 --> 01:11:23,035 lines and stuff like that, you have a civil engineer do it. So the legislature said 965 01:11:23,745 --> 01:11:25,885 you actually have to have an engineer to do those things. 966 01:11:28,275 --> 01:11:31,875 I I look through the brief. I don't think they're the , the county's 967 01:11:32,435 --> 01:11:35,675 disputed that there, there are, are no professional 968 01:11:36,835 --> 01:11:40,775 engineering reports here except for the one on streets. And 969 01:11:40,995 --> 01:11:44,435 again, that one's not an individualized assessment. It's gotta be individualized. 970 01:11:46,095 --> 01:11:49,895 the, the, their report basically says, we looked at the subdivision ordinance and 971 01:11:50,255 --> 01:11:54,235 or regulations. It requires typically on a perimeter street that the 972 01:11:54,435 --> 01:11:56,925 developer dedicate and pay to construct two lanes. 973 01:11:58,535 --> 01:12:02,275 so the way that this usually happens for a 974 01:12:02,555 --> 01:12:05,235 proportionality appeal, it, it's not intended to be 975 01:12:06,575 --> 01:12:10,195 the sort that the county uses to extract things. 976 01:12:11,255 --> 01:12:14,635 it was intended to be a shield by the developer. So let's take streets 977 01:12:16,575 --> 01:12:19,555 ca the engineer says you need for your 978 01:12:21,145 --> 01:12:24,075 development to dedicate two lanes and build two streets. 979 01:12:25,225 --> 01:12:28,835 okay? That's just because that's what the subdivision 980 01:12:29,625 --> 01:12:33,465 regulations say. It's not an individual assessment for this 981 01:12:33,765 --> 01:12:36,995 particular developer and the number of trips that he's generated, 982 01:12:38,025 --> 01:12:41,835 it's the general applicability of a subdivision wreck. The way it typically happens, 983 01:12:42,815 --> 01:12:46,655 the developer then comes up and says, whoa, you 984 01:12:46,875 --> 01:12:50,715 know, let's, let's pretend it's one house, my one house, 'cause we've 985 01:12:50,915 --> 01:12:54,495 had this before. My one house doesn't generate the need for me to 986 01:12:55,275 --> 01:12:58,515 dedicate 50 feet of right of way and build an extra road 987 01:12:59,565 --> 01:13:03,115 extra lane. That's how this process typically works. 988 01:13:04,055 --> 01:13:08,015 so the county's kind of flipped that and is trying to use it 989 01:13:08,925 --> 01:13:12,835 again, like I say, more than a sword, but a shield. But you still gotta 990 01:13:13,075 --> 01:13:16,855 comply with the statute and just haven't 991 01:13:17,345 --> 01:13:20,735 done it. I mean, there's just no professional engineer reports here. 992 01:13:21,485 --> 01:13:25,365 and that's the whole reason this, this statute to set the way up. It, it 993 01:13:25,585 --> 01:13:29,505 is, is infrastructure improvements as part of a development that are 994 01:13:29,705 --> 01:13:33,625 basically a professional engineer. And I will admit they had 995 01:13:33,865 --> 01:13:37,825 a professional engineer do their street report. We disagreement for the 996 01:13:37,905 --> 01:13:41,845 reasons we talked about, but, and, and jeff miles obviously is 997 01:13:42,145 --> 01:13:45,945 an engineer, but the other 15, I mean there's 998 01:13:46,225 --> 01:13:50,015 just no question. There's, there just isn't that 999 01:13:50,305 --> 01:13:54,265 y'all can't impose those. I I I don't even see why 1000 01:13:54,425 --> 01:13:56,925 there's a question there. Um, 1001 01:13:58,685 --> 01:14:02,005 so that I really should keep it to that. But just a couple of 1002 01:14:02,705 --> 01:14:06,695 comments that were made. Um, but again, I do honest with 1003 01:14:06,985 --> 01:14:10,735 you, I don't know about this fire contract with 1004 01:14:11,085 --> 01:14:14,585 the city. Um, my understanding of 1005 01:14:15,125 --> 01:14:18,855 contract law is pretty basic 'cause that's not what I do. But typically one party can't 1006 01:14:19,205 --> 01:14:23,085 just terminate a contract. You know, I mean I grew up in west 1007 01:14:23,245 --> 01:14:26,765 texas, your word was your bond, if you will both want to terminate, you can terminate, 1008 01:14:27,425 --> 01:14:30,705 but one party just can't terminate because they want to. That's not how 1009 01:14:31,705 --> 01:14:35,265 it works here, uh, in texas. The um, 1010 01:14:37,945 --> 01:14:41,885 you know, I have other stuff written down, but I think that's kind of the main thing. I 1011 01:14:42,005 --> 01:14:45,725 mean, it just, there there may be other issues here 1012 01:14:46,105 --> 01:14:50,005 and I think commissioner lty is correct. You know, he says, well, you don't have to pay 1013 01:14:50,205 --> 01:14:54,065 a fee. Well, that's kind of my point. You know, that's what the statute is for. 1014 01:14:54,585 --> 01:14:58,275 if you have to construct, dedicate or pay a fee and if it's, 1015 01:14:59,145 --> 01:15:02,915 you know, make sure you can get electricity to the side or you know what, 1016 01:15:03,355 --> 01:15:07,245 make sure you have animal control or whatever. Those are not 1017 01:15:07,605 --> 01:15:11,075 proportionality appeal items. Okay. And frankly, 1018 01:15:12,855 --> 01:15:16,565 every development has to go through those and make sure they work or they can't develop. 1019 01:15:17,995 --> 01:15:21,585 okay. So if if there's no water, it, 1020 01:15:23,025 --> 01:15:27,005 it won't happen. The, the retail provider under state law says 1021 01:15:27,245 --> 01:15:31,065 that there is nothing personal against council there. But 1022 01:15:31,505 --> 01:15:35,425 that's not really their call. If the retail water provider has 1023 01:15:35,645 --> 01:15:39,565 the ccn and if he says I can serve it, I can serve it. I think all the discussion 1024 01:15:40,085 --> 01:15:43,605 beyond the, the parcels that we're talking about here is irrelevant, 1025 01:15:44,245 --> 01:15:48,085 should be disregarded. I know it's important. I'm not saying it's not important for the county. 1026 01:15:48,385 --> 01:15:52,205 so please don't, you know, make it look like I'm not saying that long 1027 01:15:52,485 --> 01:15:56,365 term there are things to be worked out. I'm just saying legally from where we are today 1028 01:15:57,225 --> 01:16:00,265 and what the statute requires and what the appeal is before you, 1029 01:16:01,755 --> 01:16:04,865 then I don't think that the, the 1030 01:16:05,785 --> 01:16:09,705 county has proven up, the county over here has 1031 01:16:09,925 --> 01:16:12,765 proven up or made its burden to show that it legally can require 1032 01:16:13,935 --> 01:16:17,805 those 16 items. Uh, I, I'm, I'm not sure what else to say 1033 01:16:18,125 --> 01:16:22,045 'cause it's so crystal clear and there's lots of case law on what 1034 01:16:22,285 --> 01:16:26,145 infrastructure means. That's not a real difficult term for 1035 01:16:26,365 --> 01:16:30,285 people to figure out. So if anybody has questions, but I'm not gonna 1036 01:16:30,445 --> 01:16:34,325 go I, you know, 44 page brief. I'm not gonna go 1037 01:16:34,915 --> 01:16:38,105 respond to every item that's in there. Does anybody have any questions, mr. Anderson? 1038 01:16:40,635 --> 01:16:44,555 nope. No questions. Okay. Thank you. Do you have anything further? You still have a few minutes? Well, 1039 01:16:45,705 --> 01:16:49,645 if I had something good to say or relevant, I would, but, but I don't wanna 1040 01:16:49,765 --> 01:16:52,665 waste people's time. Okay. So 1041 01:16:54,785 --> 01:16:54,785 all 1042 01:17:05,155 --> 01:17:07,805 that being said at two 16, we're adjourned.