Okay, I will call to order the
Rollsville Board of Commissioners. This
is a regular business meeting um
Tuesday, August the 18th, 2026. I want
to thank everybody in attendance. We got
a good turnout tonight. Appreciate uh
appreciate everybody's coming out to the
meeting. Uh I think uh a lot of things
going on um and I appreciate the public
being involved in and part of that. So
thank you everybody for coming out
tonight. Uh this is our last summer
meeting. Uh we are on the summer
schedule. So next September we manage
the board we go back to the regular
agenda business meetings first of the
month. And um
so uh I think we got a large agenda
tonight. So got several public hearings
to do and uh and those type things and
some business meeting items to take care
of. So we will jump right into it. First
I want to do an invocation and pledge
allegiance. Uh we have uh Steve Davis
from here in Roseville. Resident
Roseville will lead us in prayer
tonight. Uh I think he's retired but I
I've heard he's working at Bethlehem
Church. I'm not sure but uh
>> yeah so uh so we'll have him do
invocation but first uh I want everybody
to stand for pledge of allegiance if you
would come on up Stephen do
[clears throat]
the flag of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands
one nation
indivisibley
and justice for all
Heavenly Father, we come tonight
[snorts]
and give them the wisdom they need.
Our concerns
everyone that are citizens of
for each other and our community as a
whole. Enable us as we work together
your generosity of spirit towards one
another in Jesus name. Amen.
What's the proclamation title day?
>> Purple heart day.
which is this month.
And um so to make an official board uh
we will approve the agenda first if you
okay with adding this proclamation to
the agenda. So I'll take a motion for
approval agenda additional proclamation.
I'll have a motion a second. Second
>> motion and a second. Any further
discussion? Not hearing any. All in
favor say I.
>> Any opposed? Sounds like eyes have it.
Eyes do have. Motion approved.
>> So, uh, first uh proclamation is 8U
basketball softball coach pitching
allstars. I think our to want to read
that one for us. April.
>> All right. So, forgive me in advance if
I don't say your names right. Okay. But
if you want to just yell it out after I
say it, please do if if I don't get it
right. Okay. All right. So, the
proclamation of the town of Roseville
recognizing the 2026 Roseville 8U coach
pitch softball team. Yay.
Whereas the 2026 Roseville 8U coach
pitch softball team earned the title for
runner up in the district 4 Capitol and
Northern Pedmont region Tar Hill League
tournament through outstanding teamwork,
determination, and sportsmanship. And
whereas the team qualified to compete in
the 2026 Tar Hill League Softball State
Tournament held in Laurensburg, North
Carolina from July 16th through the
19th, 2026. proudly representing the
town of Roseville on the state stage.
And whereas although the T team did not
capture the state championship, the
players demonstrated exceptional
teamwork, perseverance, positive
character, and community pride
throughout the tournament, serving as
outstanding ambassador ambassadors for
the town of Roseville. And whereas the
town of Roseville proudly recognizes the
members of the 2026 Roseville 8U coach
pitch softball team. Ava Alford, Alford,
Reagan Brown, McKenna
Calami,
Maisie Gallo, Josie Garris, Evelyn
Heming, Bianca Aender,
Aubrey
Lazine,
Naa Logan, Charlotte P, Shephard
Williams, and Elder.
Did I do okay? Butchered them too bad.
Sorry. [laughter]
Sorry.
Along with their dedicated coaching
staff, head coach Paul Iender,
close maybe. And assistant coaches
Savannah Alfred, Chris Brown, and
Christina Gallow for their commitment,
teamwork, sportsmanship, and outstanding
representation of the town of Roseville
through the 2026 season. And whereas the
volunteer coaches dedicated countless
hours of their time, leadership, and
encouragement to developing the skills,
confidence, teamwork, and sportsmanship
of these young athletes, making a lasted
lasting impact on and off the field. And
whereas the town of Roseville recognizes
and celebrates the accomplishments of
these players, coaches, families, and
supporters whose dedication and
commitment contributed to an
unforgettable season and exemplifies the
values of youth a athletics. Now
therefore, be it proclaimed that the
mayor and town board of commissioners of
the town of Roseville hereby commend and
congratulate the 2026 Roseville 8U coach
pitch softball team for an outstanding
season, their district 4 runner-up
finish, and their qualification for the
2026 Tar Hill League softball state
tournament. The town expresses its
sincere appreciation to the players,
coaches, parents, and supporters for
representing Rollsville with integrity,
teamwork, perseverance, and pride. Their
accomplish have bought accomplishments
have brought honor to our community and
serve as an inspiration for future
generations of young athletes. Adopted
this 18th day of August, 2026, Mayor
Ronnie Iicuran.
>> Thank you.
>> CONGRATULATIONS.
[applause]
I I do have a signed document for you.
So, if we the coaches and the and
players come down front here, we get a
picture. So, uh if all the coaches and
April let you come down.
>> Okay.
Yeah.
» On behalf of the town of Roseville, we
want to wish you all congratulations.
You did a great job and we're so proud
of all of you.
>> Thank you.
very much.
>> Thank you so much.
Jun for the win.
So
congratulations.
It's your future.
[applause]
» Okay. Um,
we got another proclamation due. This is
uh National Senior Citizens Day and uh
our lays on to the senior citizens. Um,
Commissioner Michael Paul, if you would
uh read that one for us. Thank you. Day
proclamation of the town of Roseville,
National Senior Citizens Day. Whereas
older Americans have contributed
immeasurably to the strength, vitality,
and character of our nation through
their wisdom, experience, and
sacrifices. And whereas National Senior Citizens Day was established in
1988 by President Ronald Reagan to honor
the achievements and ongoing
contributions of our senior citizens and
to raise awareness of issues that affect
their quality of life. And whereas
today's seniors are active engaged in
making significant contributions to
their families, communities, and the
economy, serving as volunteers,
caregivers, mentors, and leaders. And
whereas as we celebrate the achievements
of senior citizens, we also reaffirm our
commitment to supporting their dignity,
independence, and well-being through
quality health care, accessible services
and community involvement. And whereas
it is fitting to recognize and express
our deepest gratitude to the senior
citizens who have shel helped shape our
communities and continue to enrich our
lives. And whereas we are committed to
fostering a community where people of
all ages are valued, supported and
empower empowered to live healthy,
meaningful and fulfilling lives. Now
therefore, Ronnie I Curran, Mayor and
the board of commissioners do hereby
proclaim August 21st, 2026 as National
Senior Citizens Day and encourage all
residents to honor the older adults in
our community by expressing gratitude
spending time with senior family
members, friends, and neighbors and
recognizing the lasting impact they have
made on our lives and our future.
Adopted the 18th day of August, 2026.
Ronnie Iicuran, Mayor.
>> Thank you.
Mike Paul. Appreciate that.
And we'll mention a little bit more
about tomorrow when your llays on
reports. Yes, sir.
>> Thank you. Appreciate that. Um and then
the last one, Mike Dant Austin, you got
a one you want to read?
>> Yes, sir. Proclamation of the town of
Roseville recognizing August 7, 2026 as
Purple Heart Day. Whereas the Purple
Heart is the oldest military decoration
in present use and the first American
service award made available to the
coming soldier. ordinarily established,
I'm sorry, originally established by
General George Washington in 1782 as the
badge of military merit. And whereas the
Purple Heart is awarded to the members
of United States Armed Forces who have
been wounded or killed as a result of
enemy action while serving our nation.
And whereas since its founding, the
Purple Heart has been awarded to well
over 1.9 million American service
members who bore the physical and
emotional scars of comeback in defense
of our freedom.
And whereas National Purple Heart Day
observed annually on August 7th provides
an opportunity for our community to
pause and honor the brave men and women
who have shed blood in our service in
service to our country as well as to
remember those who gave their lives. And
whereas it is fitting and proper that we
recognize the sacrifice of these
American heroes and express our sincere
appreciation for their service. Now
therefore, be it proclaim that Mayor
Ronnie, our current and the board of
commissioners of Roseville, on behalf of
all citizens, do hereby proclaim August
7, 2026 as Purple Heart Day in the town
of Roseville and encourages all to all
residents to join in honoring the
courage and sacrifice of our comeback
wounded and fallen service members.
Proclaim
this 18th day, August, 2026. Thank you.
Dan.
>> Thank you, sir, for allowing me to read
it.
>> Yep. Okay, that wraps up um our um
proclamations. Um we do have a new audio
system. Tonight's the first night we're
using this. Um it seems like it's
working well. I think the old system is
hard to hear if you was here in
attendance, but it was kind of easier to
hear online, I think. So, is everybody
hearing okay? Everybody sounds well
good. I think it's working then. Great.
Appreciate that. Uh so with that, our
next item is public comments. This is
the time individuals get chance to u
speak to the board. Uh you your uh
comment should be directed to the board
uh professionally and polite with
respect and uh and we have to limit you
to three minutes to that. We don't have
anyone to sign up. Um now we do have a
couple public hearings coming up. So, if
you want to speak to anything
specifically,
uh, that'll be fine. But if you want to
speak to anything generally to the
public, this is time.
So, we have a sign up for the public
hearing. Um,
» okay.
So we don't have a public comment
person. Anybody want to speak public?
But thank you. Appreciate that. We also
really welcome to any kind of written
comments. If you want to make any kind
of comments to the general uh board here
on anything to do with the town, we
appreciate any type of general comments
also. Uh so we'll take any comments that
you have. So appreciate that. So moving
along, uh our next item is the consent
agenda. Uh we have three items on the
consent agenda. One is the meetings from
July 21, 1926,
excuse me, 2026. Uh the other one is a
resolution to introduce legislation
United uh unique zip code. I think the
board has been working on that for a
while. So you guys saw that in in
package if you if you prefer to any
discussion on that, we can pull it. And
the other one uh is one that the
attorney's been working on a while,
roadway reimbursement development
agreement with uh with Fowl Road
Extension. Both of those been ongoing
for several several months. And uh if
any anybody want to comment on any of
those things, we're welcome to pull it.
If not, I will entertain a motion for
consent agenda. Move. Is there a second?
>> Second.
>> Got a motion second. Any further
discussion?
>> No, sir.
>> Not hearing it. All in favor say I. Any
opposed?
>> Sounds like the eyes have it. The eyes
do have it. Motion approved. Thank you
very much. Uh lison on reports. uh this
is the opportunity where commissioners
some of the things that they've been
working on to share with the public uh
some of the things that's going on
generally and kind of what they're
focused on. And I'm going to start to my
uh left here. Start now with Jen. So
Jen, do you have anything from public
safety you'd like to comment on? I know
we've been working on a few things.
>> Yes. Yes. So, we've got some individual
updates from fire, police, and then um a
comment about the joint public safety um
issue that we've been working on. Uh so,
the fire department members, they have
attended the SFRE conference in Raleigh
for training and professional
development. So,
strong emphasis on continuing um you
know, individual development within I'm
sorry, I thought my mic just No, I'm
okay.
Uh the department is still speaking with
apparatus vendors to replace engine 153.
Recruitment is underway to fill two
firefighter vacancies and six candidates
have advanced to interviews and um and
the fire department did conduct a
critical incident stress debrief
following the fatal um Willow Tower
Court fire. So and there's an
afteraction review scheduled for next
week too. So I know that that was a
tough one for some of the the folks.
police department. They met with Wake
County Public Schools regarding safety
protocols and recruitment is still
underway for police officer and sergeant
positions. Uh, one thing to note,
National Night Out is scheduled for
October 6 from 5:30 to 7:30 at Redford
Place Park. And the police department
continues to offer its internet exchange
safe zone at the fire department on the
side of the building so that if you're
making a marketplace transaction, it's
just a safe place to do so. Um the the
one issue that we have been working on
uh
mayor, myself, town manager, both chiefs
met with the uh DOT
out of nowhere. They blocked off the
emergency turnaround at the intersection
of um Young and 401. It was something
that's been utilized basically since the
intersection has been up with no
warning. They put up big yellow
signs so that they couldn't access that
point to be able to get to emergency
calls on the other side of 401. Um
there wasn't much of a reason for it.
So, we have been working with DOT to get
a resolution to clear that pathway for
our emergency services vehicles to
decrease uh call times.
» Thank you. Appreciate that. Jean.
Okay. Commissioner Wall planning
department. Anything?
>> Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor, we we didn't have a
lot to report um from last meeting, but
there are a few things that will be
coming before us. Um there is the minor
subdivision lot frontage that um the
planning board um they're beginning
conversations on on what that would look
like in regards to um the frontage of a
minor subdivision based upon the 25th um
uh fault 20 foot I want to give it the
right wording please uh
based upon the 20 ft in width on a
public street where there may be some
instances where exceptions are
reasonable. Um and that is something
that we're going to be talking about in
general. Next up will also be some
technical corrections that we made uh to
TA-26.007
and there are some conversations that
we'll be having about the overlay um
around the downtown area. Um over and
beyond that, Mr. Mayor, those are all
the updates that I have at this time
from planning.
>> Thank you. Appreciate that,
Commissioner. Um next, uh the parks and
wreck.
>> All right. Yeah,
>> we had our meeting on July 22nd and as
you just witnessed our um AU girls
softball team. So that was uh exciting
for them. We have a roughly 349 kids to
play baseball and softball. These
numbers were as of July 22nd. Soccer
roughly 290 kids. Flag flag football
roughly 103 kids. So, they are filling
up and I'm sure they're more than that
right now at this point. And so, that's
um exciting to have those fill up. We
have on 911 event that's coming up and
that there's a 5K and a onemile walk
that day as well as honoring and
remembrance. and that will happen um on
the 12th starting at 8:30 around 8:30 in
the morning to 1. You can go to our
website for more information for those
three events. So, we're looking forward
to that. We have a blood drive on
September 18th from 10:00 to 3 here in
the Roseville Community Center. At that
time, the numbers were almost maxed out.
May be full now. It is full now. No,
still some slots left. Okay. So, you can
still get in there to donate blood on
September 18th.
And there's some senior um updates,
which I'm sure Commissioner Paul will
take care of that part. Uh the ADA
picnic tables uh at the
park were taken care of. So, now those
are ADA compliant. And we also have our
gazebo that was painted and as well as
the swings. That's at the Roseville, the
main street park.
Uh, aside from that, just an update that
the farm is in design phase, so we're
waiting to hear what's next with that.
And that's all that I have.
>> Thank you. Appreciate it. Commissioner,
veterans, uh, commission officer.
>> Yes, sir. This month, our nation
observed four important military events.
On August 4th, we marked the US Coast
Guard birthday,
celebrating the founding of the Revenue
Cutter Service in 1790. the Coast Guard
earliest predecessor on August 7th at
Purple Heart Day, a day set aside to
honor the service members who were
wounded or killed in comeback while
serving our country. August 16th, we
recognize National Airborne Day. Who? We
celebrate the first official US Army
parachute jump conducted in 1940. Never
understood jumping out of a airplane
that is not going down.
Love my airborne troops though. And on
August 29th, we celebrate the Marine
Forces Reserve birthday, marking the
establishment of the Marine Corps
Reserve in 1916.
The Wake Forest Purple Heart Foundation
on August 15th held its 17th annual
Purple Heart banquet. The guest speaker
was first lieutenant Patrick McCclary
III, United States Marine Corps retired.
The Joel fund. The Joel fund here in
Roseville which serves as our veterans
center held as quarterly recon which is
called resource connection on August
15th from 8:30 to 1000 hours at the Joel
Center here in town. The conversation
focused on resources for military
connected kids and teens. If you're
wondering what benefits, scholarships,
or other resources your children may be
eligible for, that event was for you.
The next recon is 17 October and the
topic is supportive services.
Uh the veterans mory committee met by
zoom on 30 July uh to discuss the design
phase with ADW. So that way we can
decide on a proper name, but as well as
a trifecta of a justice uh memorial
removing moving removing the George
Taylor out of the park into the town
campus as well as a 911 artifact being
on um campus and our veterans memorial.
So it should be the first of its kind.
And Mr. Mayor and board, that's all I
have.
Great. Okay. And last, senior citizens.
Um, Commissioner Paul.
>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening,
everyone. Again, the senior center is
continuing to gain momentum thanks to
June Quincy and the rest of the parks
and rec staff. Um, we're seeing a steady
increase of participants and a number of
programs offered. Uh, for what it's
worth, my wife Theresa and I attended
several line dancing classes and we had
a great time. We intend to be regulars
in there going forward. Um, tomorrow,
August 19th, is the Golden Years Expo to
be held at Roseville Baptist Church.
Hours are from 10:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.
There will be dozens of local vendors
there to discuss how they can help
improve the lives of our senior
residents. This event has grown
significantly year-over-year, so please
come out and see what you've been
missing. My understanding is that the
mayor will open the event and
Commissioner Alustin will be the MC.
Finally, the Senior Network is hosting
its third annual charity golf tournament
Thursday, September 10th at 9:30 a.m.
Spots are filling fast, so sign up today
for a fun-filled day of golf and
laughter. Visit the senioretwork.org for
more information to sign up as a sponsor
or a player. That's what I have for you,
Mr. Mayor. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Good job. Appreciate that.
And hope everybody come out tomorrow.
You're a good appreciate.
Um, [snorts] so our next item is uh
couple of staff reports. Uh, economic
development update. Uh, Michael
McFarland. Now, he has a written report.
Did you guys have any documents? We're
not going to read that tonight. Uh, we
are going to get a capital project
report update uh verbally from um our town engineer
got. So, if you would uh where's Scott
at? There he is. Um,
do you need uh you need video? You do.
[snorts]
» While Scott getting uh that set up, we
also have a planning department update.
Uh that is also a paper report in your
packages from Steven Winsman. So you
guys have that in your package also. And
that will conclude our staff reports.
And Scott, it's all yours.
I appreciate your time. I'm here to give
an update about the farm project.
Just some recap on what exactly the farm
is. It's it's broken up into a number of
phases. The first phase is actually
complete. That was the the driveway to
the to the farm campus which is really
consic
parking as well as the entrances to the
farm off of 401. That has been
completed.
So that that phase has been complete. Um
we recently uh I think DOT signed off on
it and everything was done. So we're
moving now and here here's just a
picture of what's out there currently.
It's just a phase one. Shows the
driveway. It's got the loop around and
it has two entrances off of 401. So now
we are moving into the design phase. And
what what is going on is now phase two
is going to be the soccer complex. The
reason that we've moved the soccer
complex up into the next phase that
we're going to be working on is because
of some of the grants that we have have
received. Um, and then they have a
three-year shelf life. So, one of them
is like a a matching grant from the from
Wake County, $3.8 million, which we will be matching that. And we also
have gotten some money from the North
Carolina football club. Um, I think
initially they had pledged like a
million dollars. It might be more than
that to complete what they what they're
going to be doing on the soccer fields.
Um, but certainly they have been
committed to finish the soccer fields
once what it is. So, we're going to get
to the the soccer fields to a rough
grading stage and then they're going to
come in and finish it with putting on
the fine grading. Um, you know, putting
all the markings down and things like
that and they'll complete the the soccer
phase. And this phase also is going to
be including a parking lot. And I'll
kind of go down here. This is this is
kind of what this phase looking like.
It's going to it's going to extend the
loop road. So, it's going to go all the
way that center part that is the now
what's going to be phase three where the the community center is will be
someday. So, the road that is the loop
road that kind of completes around
there. I think that was important so we
could have you know when people are
coming in and out of the park if there's
games going on people are coming in
people are leaving it gives some sort of
traffic flow that you know won't cause a
lot of congestion in there. So, this
phase, it does include the soccer
fields. It includes a pavilion down
there on the far left side of it in
between where the the four soccer fields
are. And it's going to it's going to
include all of the uh parking that's
associated with this particular phase.
And it's and each of these phases is
going to be designed independently. So,
this one has its own water from wells
and septic. And so, that's going to be
phase two. And here is just some
renderings kind of of what that might
look like. Here's the soccer field
again. um the pavilion. This is just an
image that we could that's one of the renderings that they put forth that
we can um that we it could possibly look
like. But once now that we're in the
design phase, we're going to start
getting a little bit more details about
that.
So, now now the multi-use activity center
is that is going to be phase three of
the project. That's going to be after
the soccer fields. Um, this one is
estimated to cost a total of $10.4
million and that is going to include the
activity center itself, the event lawn
that's kind of in the middle of that
loop road and all the associated
infrastructure, you know, well and
septic and then things like that.
And so here is just some more uh
renderings of what the activity center
might possibly look like. This includes
like uh indoor facilities for
basketball, pickle ball, it's going to
include bathrooms obviously. Um, and so
that's that's what we have envisioned
for that. And I think once we get kind
of closer to that design phase, that's
when we're going to get more of the
details and specifically what that
building is going to look like. Um, but
that's going to start taking place after we I think the design phase will
start under once the construction of
phase two begins. And I think I'll back
up real quick. I don't think I gave you
the the dates on that. So, we're
expecting the design for the phase two,
the soccer fields to be completed by the
end of this year. That's I'm hopeful for
that. Um, and construction is going to
begin in some summer of next year, and I
would expect it to take about uh 12
months to complete the construction. So,
we're looking about opening the soccer
fields up in summer 2028, hopefully
spring, so we can get use of it a little
bit more. So, there's phase three. Uh,
here's the activity center. And finally,
the last phases is what's called the
agro tourism area. It's also been
referred to as the orchard. This is
going to be um basically a cleaning up
of that particular area. I think there's
an existing uh farmhouse that may be
demolished. I think that's expected to
be demolished. Uh there are barns and
other structures out there that will be
evaluated to see if they're viable
because I think it's been expressed if
they want to keep those as part of uh
you know as part of that phase. Um and
so and it's going to include any kind of
landscaping and any pedestrian
improvements that might be left over. So
that would could be some greenway trails
um that would surround the rest of the uh the property.
And so we're hoping that phase that's
going to be obviously that's going to be
pushed out a little bit further once the
community center, the activity center
has been uh underway. And so here's just
some more renderings of what that phase
of it is. It's uh you know it's got got
the trees, it's got the landscaping,
it's got the the lawn area and uh as
well as some you know pathways greenways
that traverse the entire area. I know
that some in in some past renderings
there's a there's the part the portion
that's south of the two ponds out there
that still is in consideration but the
costs in order to do something on that
side of would be high because we would
have to really rehabilitate the dams to
those particular ponds and that's a
really expensive proposition. So, we're
going to once we get sort of moving
towards that phase of it, we're really
going to sit down and do an analysis, a
costbenefit analysis of if if it's worth
it to to really use that south side of the property. But for now, I just
we're going to leave it with with this
particular phase.
And so, that's my update on the farm.
I'd be glad to answer any questions that
you might have.
>> How many soccer fields are we looking
at?
>> Four. Four full-size soccer fields.
>> Is that consistent? I know we have
talked about having some hosting leagues
or something. Was that consistent, Eric?
>> Yeah, I think five had been talked about
at one point, but when our conversations
with the football club Junior, you can
that four was going to be sufficient for
what they needed.
>> Okay, thank you.
>> And then are we I know at a certain
point in and talks there were going to
be some baseball fields too. Is that out
of the question? Is that another phase?
>> That's included in the future phases.
It's not going to be done with phase two
or phase three, but it's still in
consideration. There was there was some
renderings that showed the baseball
fields kind of over near Weather Soccer
Field one, and it was also one kind of
on the orchard side of it. That's still
into consideration, but it's pushed off
into a future phase like the associated
with the phase four possibly.
>> Okay. And then do you have any kind of
goal dates for phase two or no, I'm
sorry, phase three with the um activity
center.
>> What kind of
>> like time frames? Um, I would consider
design of that once we get under
construction of phase two, which I think
I said summer of 2027, moved into 28.
That's when we would enter the design
phase for that. And hopefully, you know,
on the heels of the design phase, we'd
be moving right into that next phase,
which would be 2028.
» You mentioned parking. I Great idea. Do
you just curiosity, how much parking are
you guys? Um, in phase two, I think
there was 208 parking spaces. Let me see
if I go back here. It's it's very small
on the the drawing that I have. Yeah,
208 spaces in phase two.
And in phase three, oh, I can't see.
It's so small.
I
>> phase three doesn't pick up.
>> It doesn't pick up. That's just going to
continuation what's already there. But
that part, the the the part that is
gravel, that is also part of phase two.
They're going to go ahead and pave that
and and make make so it's no longer
gravel. I think that's like 80 spaces or
I think
>> so that 80 plus the 208.
>> Yes, that's correct. Yep. Yeah, we kind
of did the parking for the soccer field
so that it would in we really it's a
long way from where that other parking
lot is. So, we want to make sure we have
plenty of spaces for the for the soccer
fields in the pavilion.
>> Question for you, sir. Um, on this
drawing illustration, could you show us
the possibility of where the baseball
softball field could go?
>> Yeah,
>> do I have a laser pointer?
>> This it's not going to show up on the
screen. It's if you look at the top
right of that oval where the parking lot
is is kind of to the right of it. Right
above that, that empty space right there
kind of between the parking lot and 401,
that's where one of the baseball fields
was going to go. And the second one is
going to go on the other side of um the
community center um kind of the other
side of that ring road on the kind of
the northeast portion that there's kind
of a grayed out area,
>> a gray area. I see that.
>> Yep. Yep.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Thank you.
» I got one other question about cost.
10.4 million for phase three. Is that I
hear that correct?
>> That's correct. and then 10.1
million for this particular phase, but
we have some of that covered by Wake
County.
>> It's a grant. The 3.8 of that it's going
to be reimburseable. So, we're going to
have to, you know, pay for it up front.
And then, so we're going to match that
with our 3.8. And the remainder of it is
kind of how to finish out the soccer
fields, which is going to be the
responsibility of the the football club.
I not trying to make everything
monetized driven, but is there any other
way we can cut some cost in regards to
sponsorships or additional grants that
we have available that we could not have
to take on so much of that 3.8 just out
of curiosity?
>> Certainly look into that. I think that's
the reason that we went after the 3.8
with Wake County and when we're always
absolutely we could ask our consultants
to kind of take a look.
>> I I would love to hear just another way
to eliminate that 3.8 from us if we can.
Um so that would be great to have that
conversation. Absolutely. I'll do that.
>> Thank you.
» Other questions,
too.
>> Okay. Thank you, Scott, for the update.
Any other updates you have?
>> Um, I I would like to give just kind of
a quick update on Main Street.
Obviously, it's a continuing progress
that's going on. Um, Fred Smith is
continuing to do our punch list items.
They they've done quite a bit of it, but
they still have some things to complete.
It's, you know, they they keep giving us
dates and sometimes they meet them and
sometimes they don't. But really the
things that are down to being finished
are they have one section of the
greenway that needs to be need some new
asphalt because it got torn up a little
bit during construction. Um there is
quite a bit of cracked sidewalk and like
handicap ramps and curbs and things like
that. That's one of the things that
because that's kind of a lot of hand
work and that takes a lot longer to do
and that is the reason that kind of the
barrels are still in place because they
need those there for safety reasons. if
they have to block a lane because
obviously if they're working on curb
right along the the line of that it's
kind of dangerous. So there still will
be some times when there's going to be
lane closures um during Main Street, but
it will be during the day and hopefully
it won't be all day. I know today was
one of those days where we had some
lanes and that some of it was Fred Smith
and some of it was like AT&T, but some
of the other things um that are still
left to do, they got to put some of the
um reflectors on some of the mediums so
at night people can see them. they're
more visible and there's a couple of
ballards uh that need to be placed on
the lower side of the greenway and one
of the main things that uh certainly is
I keep telling them about is the uh the crosswalk lightings are not some of
them are functioning some of them are
not and that's due I think some of the
batteries that were sent with them
that's on the punch list and that is
certainly one going to be the priorities
getting those things up and running
because you don't want to put
pedestrians at risk if you don't have to
and I've crossed that road at some of
these pedestrian crossings and people
sometimes people stop, sometimes they
don't. So, we'll have to keep our eyes
open for that. But that's certainly one
of the things we're going to be doing.
>> Now, has Fred Smith been
engaging?
>> Are they engaging? They Yes. Well, let
me Would you like me to be more direct
or would you because I'm trying has the
process with them lately where they've
been engaged as you have called and
reached out in regards to these punch
list items?
>> Um because we've had an ongoing problem
since we've had this project of that
lack of response. I'm just curious if
it's a continuation of the same.
>> They have been responsive to our punch
list items specific. One of the specific
ones was like uh some weeds. There was a
lot of weeds that were growing in the
medium. They did go out there. I kind of
walked the median yesterday kind of up
and down and you could tell that there
were a lot of places where they were
pulling up weeds. They did a lot of
spraying which means they did they just
died and they didn't pull them up.
That's going to be another item that's
on my list. I want them to come back out
here to do another run of the weeds um
and just to get it at least spotless but
you know before we as the town have to
start taking over the maintenance for
it.
>> And uh have they given a date of
completion for these punch list items?
>> They keep has telling us they by the end
of August
optimistic and hopeful that they will
stay to that point.
>> Interesting. Yeah, because didn't they
tell us mid August earlier?
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. They keep they keep moving the the
goal line.
>> They keep moving the goal line. They you
know they they have told me they're
having some problems with their
subcontract the concrete people which is
a reason that they kind of haven't been
out there as much as possible. And yes,
we're we are having continued
conversations with them about payments
and stuff like that of what we can what
we can do to speed them up. And so they
lately
>> I I wish they could be better, but I
think they're they're [clears throat]
going to get it done and when it's all
said and done, it's going to be a good
product.
>> So I'm not holding you to this, okay?
I'm not. But they they have shared with
you end of August is the designated time
for the completion of the punch punch
list.
>> That's that is the schedule that they
have told me.
>> And can you say with your personal uh
evaluation? Do you have confidence that
the end of August we will be able to say
as a town that we can say we're towards
the end of this punch list? Don't
obligate yourself to get yourself in any
trouble, sir. I wish I could say with
full confidence, but I'm going to say it
may leak into September.
» And that once everything's gone, that
includes the barrels, the silk fence,
>> the pond that's out there. It's it
>> for for for for folks to understand
because I know for myself, Eric, I I
know I bother you about it constantly,
but
the understanding that all of the orange
cones, the barrels, the the fencing,
none of that can legally be taken up
until the DO,
>> correct me, correct me if I'm wrong, the
>> DEU, they're the ones in charge of,
>> right, that says, okay, checklist,
everything is done. and the town says,
"Okay, the punch list is is done
incorrect." And then
>> Yeah.
Once the government signs off on
their red tape, then all of the orange
go over the color orange right now.
>> It's potentially the barrels could leave
a little area because that's a safety
consideration for Fred Smith and its
employees. If they're able to finish
that work and you no longer do the
barrels, they can take those out. But
the silk pen is directly tied to their
permit with the state.
>> Yeah. Okay. because that was a a
learning point for myself too. So just
for any frustration to understand that
it's it's all red tape government red
tape.
>> Not our government.
>> No no not ours.
>> Yes.
Any other questions board? I don't I
don't think we have given them final
payment. Have we?
>> That that was my question.
>> That's and we don't give them final
payment to all this.
>> Um that's correct. There's correct board
for that. We give you a directive.
>> Yeah, there's a retainage and then also
when it comes to the punch list that is
considered to be rework and so there are
no additional costs associated with the
punch list. Punch listing oftent times
when the subcontractor is remobilized
that's kind of part of it. um they try
to schedule concrete when they have
concrete going on in other projects in
the area, things of that nature because
in some cases the this amount is not
enough for a large quantity. So the
price will shift on them and so you
experience that stuff on place listing
where things will be more convenient,
but we are holding them to that and
trying to get that as documented as
possible. Um we know and trust them to
be who they've been.
>> Say that again. no one trust them to be
who they have been for us
>> which is the concern
>> and so um we are we will continue
working all the different angles we've
been doing in the past when we haven't
been um happy with the expect with the
timelines and the delivery
the biggest concerns I've heard from the
citizens and you we mentioned both of
them so there's no need to harper on
them one has to do with the fencing the
orange fencing that's in people's yards
and the barrels that's in the street.
They've done a good job of getting them
out of the street lately, but those two
things those two things from the public
has been very vocal. Um, so stay on top
of that. And the other one you mentioned
has to do with all the weeds that grows
in the nice landscaping we did and now
there we
can't even see the landscaping for
weeds. And um it doesn't look like a $23
million project when you got weeds out
there growing that high. So I've heard a
lot of talk about that. So keep on top
of them on that. And and you said they
were cleaning that up some.
>> They had already made one run at getting
out the weeds. They pulled some of them.
They sprayed some of them and which
means they just died. They're brown. I
think those need to come out too. So
that's that's definitely an item that
we're going to continue to be on
>> and then at some point we'll take it
over.
>> That's correct. Our public works
department will be responsible for it,
you know, moving forward once we accept
the project.
>> So keep us informed when we take it when we take it over. So we will know
that it's not Fred Smith. We waiting on
it's public works.
>> I am curious about something. If we were
to go out and manage the medium, could
we bill Fred Smith for our work that
we've done?
Um, no. And and you could avoid
>> But could we avoid a portion of their
>> We could void like the warranty punchy.
>> Uh,
>> so we can keep them asking to do it.
They they won't since it's a punch list
item, they can't charge us. They're not
charging us more every time we call them
out there.
>> Okay. It's the warranty piece though.
Okay. Okay.
Thank you.
>> Yeah. Appreciate [clears throat] it.
Thank you, Scott. Thank you. Um,
so, uh, we got a couple business items
to do. One of them is the Rolls of
Chamber of Commerce. I think Michael
McFarland is going to kick that off. So,
I see him coming up. Michael McFarland,
our economic development manager. So, if
you would uh, kind of tell us what's I
think that's in our package already. I
think I saw that and read that. So, um,
something you've been working on for a
while.
>> Yes. Yes, definitely. Uh, good evening,
mayor and town board. Uh this is a
continuation of the discussion we had um
in July uh where we brought this before
the board and there were questions from
the town board at that meeting that um
the chamber of commerce has responded to
and and those responses are in the
packet. Um a financial document and a
year in review of or or sort of a recap
of activities. Um the draft uhou is also
in the packet and
um tonight if there's any more questions
I'm here and the um Malcolm is is here
again the executive director of the
chamber as well as the chamber board
Alan Smith um if there are questions um
but I think um we're just looking for
guidance either an approval or a denial
or a continuation or if there's more
questions or more information that's
needed we
look to provide that as well.
>> Sounds good.
» Are you going to present or do you just
want to know if we have questions? Yeah,
there's no other presentation just
>> um
so first is um
who has fiduciary oversight of the
chamber? Um so meaning who is
keeping track of all this, rectifying
books, you know, um because I know
there's been some turnover with the
board. So, who is do we have a person
that is maintaining all of that?
>> We do. Um, I'll actually call Alan, but
uh uh Kayn is our new uh treasurer and
he is a CPA. Um we uh Allan and the
team, we've come together to build a board that has professional
services as a part of their thing. So,
we have we're looking for an attorney.
We're looking for a CPA. So, our CPA a
CPA is our treasurer now.
>> Okay. Good.
the documents that you guys will receive
in the report will be uh certified.
» Oh, and then how how are we accounting
for town money as far as being used
specific for you know specific items in
theou?
um how are we accounting for that
versus, you know, outside grants, fees,
fundraising, all of that, you know,
showing that direct division of funds
and how they're being used,
>> right? So, essentially, you'll get a
report for a lot of what we're receiving
monies for our events and those events
will have a budget attached and you guys
will receive that budget and see where
your your town funds were allocated to
specific things within.
>> Okay. And just for clarification, I
believe we talked about this last time,
but
theou money is not handed over in one
big check. It's as as each project comes
along. And then do we grant it upfront
or do we reimburse?
>> Uh for the most part reimbursement,
they'll have to submit an invoice. Um
there's a few instances where there's
some preparation like let's say the
barbecue bands festival. I think in the
past as that's led up to the barbecue
bands festival, there needed to be some
upfront money. So, um, that took place
like that. For the most part though,
it's reimburseable
>> and yeah, so this would just that pot of
money sits in the town's account and as
activities and projects happen, as an
event happens like the barbecue and
bands or as the youth leadership program
begins and continues, they would invoice
us um for that specific project and then
we would reimburse.
>> Okay. And Malcolm, I know that you spoke
of this at the last meeting, but
what are the chambers
plan timeline to be able to go
independent? Basically, be be selfunded
um organization.
>> As long as we carry ourselves with the
plan that we have, we're about two years
out. Uh what you'll see is, you know,
potentially as long as everything goes
well with the events that we have lined
up, as well as getting more membership
on board, you'll reduce, you know, our
ask based on what we're able to do.
» And we're being very aggressive with
that. Very aggressive.
>> Who's leading the youth leadership this
year?
>> Um, it's still going to be a
partnership. We're still going to talk
to Tisha only because of her
involvement. Okay. But Sam will probably
charge. We have some really, really cool
uh programs that we have planned for you
on this.
>> It's very good.
>> We actually um
>> Oh my lord. I'm so sorry. [laughter]
>> I'm so sorry.
>> Forgot what I was going to say.
So, forgive me. Um Oh. Um um
programs. Uh I believe that the county
is looking to partner with Roseville and Eastern Wake for AI projects as part
of youth leadership. and curious if that
is something that the uh chamber would
like for me to continue to take on with
a possibility of partnering as part of
your youth leadership.
>> 100%. And then the other thing is um
we're doing um uh there's an office
that's coming available in in the space.
We're going to flip that into a podcast
lounge so that the youth leadership can
participate in that as well as members.
So place content and things of that
nature.
Michael, I got a question for you. Theou
lists the inind office space at um 200
Eon Street with the market value, but it
was left blank. Um could you provide me
that figure so that way that the board
>> might have to defer to the town attorney
if we figured that number out yet? Um
>> and and do we need that amount before we
make a decision?
>> That's my second. Last year it was about
$6,516
I think. So this year we envisioned
probably a couple hundred bucks more
based on market rate.
>> We didn't see it going up too much, but
it's in that realm.
>> So in order to account for the market
value of providing that rent support, we
want to track that on ourou as an
additional contribution that would
otherwise be a cost uh to the chamber of
commerce. And to ensure that that's
tracking in a reasonable way, the
adjustment is uh taking the rent from
last year and then adding an escalator
that happens to align with the uh
escalator that the town itself has seen
with regard to the planning department.
» The final will have that number in there
and then we would circulate this to the
chamber to sign off and then it would
come back to the town for signature.
>> I do have a comment though. um from the
growth that we've seen from the chamber
of the membership from 100 to what 165
and now up to 199 um shows a testament
to your leadership and the guidance and
the future of where our chamber can go.
So it's good that we still or can have
this partnership um going forward. But
thank you for your leadership and what
you have done in the last what 10
months. Well, now officially next week
will be a year because we we were 10
months in June. So,
>> congratulations on that. Thank you, sir.
» Any other any other questions?
>> Only thing I will expand on and I think I heard you say 100%. Maybe I was wrong about that.
>> I'm sorry. Say that again.
>> On the funding when you asked them the
funding question when you have the
funding. I think you said 100%. But I
think there's a few items we'll always
partner them with like the leadership
thing. That's something we kind of
driving, but they're doing it for us. So
we'll always probably always have for
some items, right?
>> Christmas parade. I think
>> Christmas parade is another one that we
always probably fund them some for. So
it would never be
>> Yeah. It's just looking at, you know,
bringing that down from Yeah. 40 plus
thousand to, you know, a more nominal
amount that covers the programs that are
specific to, you know, the town like
leadership and and Yeah.
>> Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I exactly I think
we're on the same page because I 100% I
kind of took it that we would never at
some point we wouldn't fund you no more,
but I think it's we got some things that
we
>> to your point those those programs are
like true partnership programs. I'm I'm
speaking more about the
bands.
>> That's an event that once you once you
do an event the right way, it undergards
itself and if you manage your resources
appropriately, you just move what you've
made onto the next year. Um, but the
reason why barbecue advance is so
important for the area is because it
becomes a signature event like South by
Southwest in Austin, Texas, right?
People don't think, you know, when they
think South by Southwest, which is a
very large festival, they think Austin,
Texas and all the programs that come
along with. I'm we're trying to
establish that same thing for Roseville
to create, you know, as we've talked
about before, economic impact. So, if we
have an event that, you know, depending
on what the police department says we
can handle, let's say we cap out at, you
know, 15,000, well, that 15,000 will
yield an economic impact about 2.52.6
million perom. So, that's that's really
what I came.
And I think the last thing I will kind
of do a follow-up question on um
commissioners asking about the invoices
and how we pay out and stuff. [cough]
[clears throat] I think just making more
clarity and more transparent for the
citizens on our side town side that
comes out of your department. I think
>> and and do you look at every invoice and make sure that the payment is is
appropriate because it comes out of your
budget I think. Right.
>> Right. So you
>> invoices are sent to me.
>> So as our representative town staff
person, you the one that makes sure
everything's kind of all
>> checking off the invoices and receipts,
>> right? Yep.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> And I I do want to thank you for that
because in the time where we've seen
where funds are being abused across this
great state, um you have been dynamic in
your approach to the way that you have
managed that. So thank you for being
very transparent with that. Is there
anything that you guys really would like
to see us kind of lean in for you on
more as we move forward beyond the
motion?
>> Okay.
» Um I did want to just add two two quick
things in regards to Sorry, I want to
lean towards the microphone um since
it's right here. Um with regards to the
invoicing, we do have those internal
controls in place. And so the invoice
comes in through Michael, um Amy and
myself. We also we also sign off on
those. When it comes to how the money is
distributed, we look at the the
partnership funding in two different
buckets. One is going to be towards
programs, other towards sponsorships.
And so when you look at the
sponsorships, those those funding those
funds are usually released in the weeks
leading up to the event so that the
event can be possible. when it comes to
the program [laughter] like the
leadership Roseville, [clears throat]
those things happen typically on the
back end. And so that's the
clarification between the front end and
the back end um for that. Um and when it
comes to leadership Roseville, we know
that the leadership of that is in
transition, but I just I wanted to shout
out um Jamari Lashley. She's over at
Rosewell High School. She was one of the
teachers and facilitators within within
that. She's the career development
coordinator at Rosewood High School. So,
she's one of the um she's she's going to
be one of the lead facilitators that
kind of transitions over and partners
with them to make sure there's
continuity in the program because um the
facilitator last year, Miss Trisha,
she's transitioned over with the weight
force chamber and she's taking on the
president job there and so but we're
making sure that there's continuity for
the students with that.
>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you guys. With so
with that, I'll call the question. Um
theou uh entertain a motion
uh to approve or not to approve.
>> So move
>> to approve.
>> I got a motion to approve. Is there a
discussion? Sec. There's a second first.
>> I'll second.
>> Got a motion second. Is there any
discussion? Further discussion. [snorts]
Not hearing it. All in favor say I.
>> Any opposed? Sounds like the eyes have
it. Eyes do have. Motion approved. Thank
you. Thank you, Michael. Appreciate
that. Thanks for coming out tonight.
appreciate be good seeing you out
tonight. Thank you. Um, next item is
personnel policy amendments. Uh,
Cassandra Wright, uh, I think I saw her.
Yeah, there she is. If you would, uh,
come up, um, kind of tell us what you
got going on.
>> Good evening, mayor and board. My name
is Shondaanda Wright. I am the human
resources director for the town and I'm
coming before you tonight to ask that
you will approve uh some modifications
to our town personnel policy. In your
packets were all of the highlighted
changes that have been made. I don't
have a presentation for you tonight. Uh
but if you've got questions about any of
those changes, I'm happy to address
those. There are four sort of key or
larger changes that we're asking for.
The first is to discontinue the practice
of offering benefits and approval to our
part-time regular part-time employees.
Uh that is a small group of folks. The
people that we have on staff right now,
we are proposing that they retain and
keep their benefits for the duration of
time that they are here. But for any new
people that we hire to uh replace people
who are leaving, we would like to
discontinue that practice. I think it's
fiscally responsible.
It's sort of above and beyond what is
customary for part-time positions and we
want to make sure that we're being
responsible with town funds.
>> Andre, how many people are
>> currently receiving those benefits? I
believe it's two if I'm not part a small
group.
>> How how many part-time positions do we
have across the board in um within the
town?
>> There are a number of part-time
positions. However, we do make a
distinction between those that are
benefit eligible and those that are not.
So, I believe it's just a handful. It's
no more than five uh positions that
right now are targeted as part-time
eligible for benefits. Well, and if it's
only a handful and and I know that they
only they would pay a portion, it would
only be a prrated amount for healthare.
>> What kind of cost savings are we talking
about?
>> I mean, it's about $6,000 for the
average kind of part-time
>> per person.
per year. That's
>> Is there an hour requirement like 30
hours a week full?
>> 25 is the threshold.
So, anything above 25, we're required to
pay benefits.
>> And we would identify those folks as
full-time.
>> Well, I'm sorry. Say, so 25 hours a week
plus is considered full-time for
benefits.
>> 30 plus.
>> Oh, 30 plus.
>> So, right now it's basically part-time
for partial benefits is under 29 hours a
week.
plus working a regular schedule because
again we have some staff that are
identified as more temporary part-time
and they're not currently eligible for
benefits.
>> Yeah, it's it's just knowing the work
environment that is as at play, you
know, in in our economy right now and
how difficult it can be for some folks
to find full-time work. to be able to
have access to a handful of benefits I I
think is very important and it doesn't
seem like it's a significant,
you know, cost-saving
for the town. You know, whether or not
they utilize it is is up to that person.
But if somebody is utilizing it, they
really need the help with healthc care
benefits.
um which is really I think the biggest
>> that's probably the largest dollar item
and that's why we are proposing that
folks who have it will continue to be
offered those benefits. question from a
other municipality perspective.
I know what happens in corporate
America, but from other municipality,
are we the outlier? Are we one of a few
outliers that pays our part-time
employees?
>> I believe when I looked there were only
a handful of other municipalities that
are offering benefits to their uh
part-time.
>> Would you
>> How many places did you look at?
>> I believe out of about 40 there were 17.
>> Just out of curiosity, what was the size
of those municipalities? Do you know?
>> It ranged from I believe it was 10,000
up to 25,000 was the population size
that I looked at.
>> Thank you.
>> What was the motivation for removing the
benefits? Is it purely financial?
>> It is primarily financial so that we're
not out of step and out of line with
other neighboring municipalities and
even other part-time employers.
You said primarily. So what else would
it be?
>> That's primarily what it is. Yeah.
There's there's not really any other
motivator.
>> Yeah. I mean in the private sector, you
don't get benefits of part-time. So I'm
just but I'm also more curious about how
many other municipalities are playing
the game. So thank you.
>> Next uh item that I'm going to put
before you is the removal of
compensatory time from the There's no
policy. What we're proposing is that
employees instead of acrewing
compensatory time will be paid overtime
directly
in in funds in cash or per their check
for any hours that they work over time.
So we're not suggesting that we don't
pay them. We're just suggesting that we
no longer offer the ability to acrue
comp time.
>> You explain comp time though to me. I I was just getting kind of confused
about it. So, what is the current policy
and how does it work with an example
versus what um is being proposed today?
>> So, if a employee who is non-exempt, so
they're eligible to be paid for
overtime. If they work, for example,
five hours in excess of their 40 hour
schedule,
>> uh, with compensatory time, they could
bank that five hours and use it at some
point in the future,
>> like for vacation time
>> for time off,
>> right? Okay. Yeah. for sometime at some
point in the future. Uh if they were
paid directly sort of hour for hour
within the pay period that it was
earned, we would pay them at time and a
half for that five hours that they
worked in.
>> So would they do they have do they
currently have the option to bank to be
able to utilize for time off or
basically be paid out at time and a
half? Is that how it is now?
>> So they could be paid out. Yes. or they
can bank it. The problem comes with uh
sort of kicking the ball down the field
into the future because as employees
stay with us uh their earnings increase,
their salary increases. Now that five
hours perhaps cost us one hourly rate.
this year, five years in the future,
that same five hours will cost us more
because the employee will be earning
more and we have to pay it out at the
rate
>> in which they
>> and there's no max I'm sorry there's no
max on how many they can acrue right
now.
>> I believe they can roll over 100 hours.
>> So somebody can leave in five years with
a 100 hours that you're going to pay
them x dollars more an hour for.
Couldn't we cap it so that they couldn't
acrewue more than 80 hours or something?
And it seems like I get if you, you
know, earn 100 hours comp time today and
cash out five years from now, it might
cost more than paying overtime, but
otherwise the overtime is more
expensive.
Paying out directly.
>> The overtime perhaps is more expensive
today, but it's not more expensive in
future dollars.
depending on cost of living increases,
what have you.
>> So, so you're proposing to wave comp
time alto together.
>> Comp time. We'd like to encourage our
hiring managers and supervisors to
either allow employees to take some flex
time. So, if they worked two or three or
five hours over, they can take that time
off uh in that pay period or they can be
paid out in that pay period.
>> Who would determine who would determine
how that is done? whether it's it's you
know they they take a few hours flex
time or if it's overtime pay
>> we would expect the department director
or the managers to work with the with
the staff to do that.
>> Okay. Because my concern would be,
you know, for whatever reason they're
not approving overtime, but yet this
person has, say, you know, five to six
hours, because I just see this happening
a lot with parks and wreck, with police
and fire and public works just because
of of activities,
right, that the town holds. So if
they're not able to take that flex time
just because and I know some departments
are so short that that is not
a reality.
I wouldn't want to see anybody being
pressured into trying to take that flex
time when that when their their workload
is already so high instead of giving
them the time and a half.
So I mean the employee should have a say
as to which way they want to
>> that's right
>> take this not not somebody else
dictating it to them.
>> Yes. So that's why we say we would
expect the supervisors to work with
their staff to ensure that there's
adequate coverage that they're not
creating sort of a backlog if they're
allowing people to take time off so that
the work is maintained. the employee
would be able to have a voice in which
they would prefer.
>> Well, the other piece of this is that if
they're required to get paid out on
overtime, they're getting a higher paycheck, so they're getting
taxed at a higher rate. So, the the
overtime may not be worth it depending
on what their taxable rate is. and they
will be
>> far better off with comp time to put it
in on a short week so they get the
normal pay and don't get taxed at a
higher rate.
>> So right now our police and fire and I'm
maybe making an assumption when you say
a short week that that to me sounds like
police and fire because they have those
alternating schedules
>> whoever. Yeah,
>> they don't currently uh acrewue comp
time right now. So it's uh would be
largely public works and parks and
recreation.
» Oh, so our police and fire
>> they're right now they are paid
>> all of the department everybody in the
department they're they're
>> overtime reports.
>> So not comp time.
>> That's right. So there's a So if if the
fire department, you know, has to work
extra because of a festival, they
automatically get just overtime pay.
>> Okay.
» Next is an increase to the tuition
reimbursement. So right now we have that
identified for $1,000
per employee uh per year and we'd like
to increase that to $3,000.
Uh obviously tuition and college costs
have increased over the years and so we
want to remain competitive so their
employees can continue to pursue higher
education and we're offering them a
competitive incentive for that.
>> Just curious why 3,000 why not five?
>> I'm not sure exactly how that number was
arrived. That was a number uh that was
in place when I got here. So, I would
assume that someone looked at our area
community colleges, at our area
universities to pinpoint a number that
was reasonable.
>> How many employees historically use this
benefit annually?
>> I don't have that those numbers, but I'd
be happy to get that for you if you
would like.
>> Um, I sign off on those. Last year was
three.
Just three. one out of finance, um,
two out of finance, one out of
administration as far, you know, and by administration that's communications
and then also general administration.
So, it's three.
>> Question for you. With with this change,
does it impact our um approved budget?
Does it require any
» Okay.
>> And the fourth that we'd like for you to
consider is to remove language that
offers a probationary pay increase for
new employees at the conclusion of six
months of employment. Uh the reason sort
of behind that is this is a practice
that was in place that the reason for
the practice is no longer uh really
anything that we need to be looking at.
We used to have to offer 6% or 5% I'm
sorry. We used to have to offer a 5% pay
increase to new staff at six months
because it was at that same moment that
they begin to contribute to the local
government retirement system. And that
uh contribution is a mandatory 6%. So
the 5% pay increase was put in to offset
that mandatory contribution to the
retirement system. Now that There's no
longer a waiting period to contribute to
the retirement system so new employees
begin to contribute immediately from day
one. Therefore, our philosophy is from
day one, we want to offer them a salary
that is competitive and that will allow
them to contribute. So, we no longer
need the increase at six months because
the waiting period is no longer in
place.
>> Is that still mandatory?
>> The waiting period?
>> No.
>> Retirement fund.
>> The retirement contribution. Yes, it is.
>> So, is that is that in there's a
recommendation? Is that a recommendation
in the package here or
>> the recommendation to remove the
probationary pay increase is in the
pack?
>> It used to be in there. Now, they have
it read out each
>> of those uh resolutions.
>> So,
that's not option option four. Is that
what that is?
>> Yeah, option action four, I guess.
>> Yes, action four.
>> Okay.
All right. Anything else? Anything else?
I think we'll do this board. That's u if
you look on page um
page is it um
>> 65. Is that what you're looking at?
You're looking for the the
>> 55. That's right.
>> 65.
>> No, 65. 65.
>> 65. You see the four actions that um is
being requested us to consider here.
Action one which removed ability of for
regular part-time employees receive
probated medical insurance and benefits.
Action two was removal of the comp time.
Action three was increase the tuition um
uh reimbursement and then option four
had to do with the um I keep losing that
one.
>> Discont.
>> Yeah. Yeah, there it is. discontinued
the practice of adjusting salaries.
>> So u
so if any one of those four we need to
get more clarity on uh we'll pull any
one of those is does any uh uh
commissioner have an issue with any one
of those actions and want to discuss
some more.
>> I just have another question for one.
>> Okay.
>> Ask it now.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, the remove eligibility for
regular part-time employees, you said we
currently have two that are eligible,
but a number of part-time positions.
So, could any more of those part-time
positions also be eligible or will it
always just be those two?
>> It would just be those two
>> always.
Grandpa in
>> Yeah, but if they should leave and
somebody were to Is that what you're
meaning like? like there's only two
positions that would absolutely qualify,
not whether or not they're actively
utilizing. Is that what you're saying?
>> Right. Out of the entire pool of
part-time employees, how many could
potentially
um taken taken it off the table if they
leave and come back? You know, how many
part-time employees could potentially
qualify for the insurance benefits as it
is today?
And there's two. There will only be two
as it stands right now.
>> As those and just so that I'm making
sure that I'm answering the question
that you're answering, as those people
leave the organization, those positions
would no longer be eligible for
benefits.
>> Right. I understand that. And just so I
make sure that
» I I don't think that your question has
been answered.
>> Wait a minute. Hold on.
The qualifications are that they have to
be under 30 hours.
Let's say there are 10 part-time
positions with the town
and only two of those positions are
under 30 hours.
Is there the potential for any of those
other eight positions
>> becoming eligible?
>> Yes.
>> No.
>> Okay.
But if additional part-time positions
are added over the years, then those
could potentially be
eligible.
>> You would write those positions so that
they worked under the necessary hours.
So
>> So they they would not be qualified.
Okay. So there would always be two from
now on until whenever. Okay. Okay.
» Any other questions? Um, so looking at
the four action items, uh, and we can we
can vote on two, three, all four of
them. What's the Anybody got any really
feel like we need to remove one of them
for right now?
>> I got question on the comp time. Who's
going to be upset with this? Is it
departments? Is it a couple individuals?
What are we looking at?
>> I don't think I would identify it as
upset. I think that there may be a
learning curve. So I think that
departments will have to learn how to
manage the time that their staff is
working. They'll have to pay maybe a
little bit closer attention to the hours
that staff are working. But I think
that's a good thing. Uh and I think
staff will need to get used to being
paid out for any hours worked
closer to the time that they worked it
rather than banking it for later. Have
you done an impact analysis on how much
it will affect budgets of individual
departments?
>> Our finance department is aware of the
change and they have put a plan in place
for funding of overtime
>> to accommodate the change.
>> Thank you. So the compensation
change um one of my siblings went
through at her job. Um it was a learning
curve and it was a shock at the
beginning after she had had compensation
um for so long the compensatory time but
now she's like it's it's just normal. So
of course there is that learning curve
there. But let me ask this question.
What is the maximum number of hours that
one employee currently holds in
compensatory time and what is the total
number across the staff? Do you know how
by chance have that?
>> I don't have those numbers in front of
me, but it hovers just over a hundred
because that's how how much they're
allowed to bring over in any given year.
So it sometimes it sort of crests over
that amount during the course of the
year.
>> Okay.
I mean, can't we set limits to how much
they can carry over then? Because, you
[music] know, just going from all to
nothing just I just feel like there's
got to be a middle road there.
>> So, any staff that currently have comp
time will be able to to maintain it.
They'll be paid out for it. And right
now, we don't have a plan in place to
force them to use it within within any
sort of time restraints. So, we will
give them the flexibility to use that
time sort of as they need. So they won't
lose it.
>> Okay. They're not going to lose
>> or lose anything.
>> So if they have over 100 hours.
>> Yeah. So So just to clarify, just to
make sure I understand that part
correctly, if you if you have over 100
hours, you're not going to lose it.
>> That's
>> And if you're not going to lose it, you
can use it at any time you want.
>> And it doesn't have to be tied to a work
week that you're in.
>> Just not going to get no more. I guess I
guess I'm just Yeah, I'm I'm
to Commissioner Paul's point
being able to rectify everything within
that two week time period as far as you
know taking uh flex time. Well, what
happens if it's a Wednesday and the pay
period ends on Friday? How are they
going to take that flex time? or if it just seems to me like it would make
more sense financially to be able to
keep that comp time to use for hours off
say in 6 months or or for the calendar
year versus
you know making them pay out time and a
half to like what to the points that you
made commissioner pop
>> I I do have one more question about that
um since we are from a municipality
perspective I've seen changes is like
this uh at Zebulun, Charlotte, Garner,
and as well as some other municipalities
in around the area. How far off are we
from a compensation perspective from my
peers? And is this a city or state
trend, excuse me, that you're seeing? Uh
because I am hearing this happen in the
government as well. So, I just kind of
want to get a gauge of where we are in
this process amongst others.
Compton time used to be very pre
prevalent in government employment and
it is increasingly less so because
organizations are realizing that there
is an increased cost associated with it
>> and you're you're not losing you get
paid overtime.
>> Yeah I I
>> I know but I'm just making sure that overtime pay happens instead of
being forced to take flex time
>> during that two week time period.
>> Yeah. in in your in your um scenario
where it's right at the end of the pay
period, it has to be overtime most time
I've seen because you ain't you got time
to take it off.
>> Okay. I just I just want to make sure
that there's no issues there as far as
saying, "Oh,
>> we don't have it in the budget for
overtime. So therefore, you must take
flex time and it's like but I'm you
know,
>> yeah,
>> I don't think you'd have you shouldn't
lose it."
>> That's a good that's a good clarifying
statement. So, we always paid overtime,
right? In some cases, like um like if
Fourth of July comes up and public
works, they say, "Look, I know I got to
work on this day." They already know
that it's the 8 hour day.
>> And if it falls in a weird space between
um the pay periods, like for instance,
you reached out about the clean up on
the parking lot. They were off on them.
They were off on the Friday, right? And
so they took the time because the pay
period ended at a certain time. They
went in, took the day off in advance of
the holiday, gave them a chance to rest,
catch up, hang out with family, and then
they came in to work on on that day. And
so, um, the supervisors do work on that.
The the the occasions in which overtime
come about are pretty consistent. Mhm.
>> It's like your fall funfest, it's your
Fourth of July, it's your Christmas
parade, it's your blackout dates, you
know, your blackout dates, all these
things are are pretty standard. And then
when we get into the inclement weather,
the things that pop up, they kind of we we try to be as flexible as possible
with that. It really comes down to like
communication with it. And so we don't
>> we're obligated to pay for the time they
work. [laughter]
>> Right.
And so and sometimes they opt for
the flex, you know, and say, "Look, you
know, I work this time. Can I just cut
out early on Friday?"
>> Yeah. But some people would rather have
that time back. Some rather I'm just
making sure that the like the employee
agrees to whatever that term is and not
be strong armed into one option or the
other is essentially what I'm getting at
here. You know, if they're putting in
the extra hours, they should have the
option to choose time and a half or if
they want to choose flex time. And
that's that's just to protect the
employee within that process,
>> right?
>> And that would be done.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. I think that we're doing that
right now because we have a number of
departments who are already uh receiving
overtime. So that's a practice.
>> So overtime is different than comp time.
>> Yeah.
>> Kind of.
>> Yeah.
>> Different different
>> different payments different payments
different different. So, so, so just to
make sure I understood you correctly,
you did I hear you say that we're going
to continue with the compensation and
flex choice after this decision we make.
>> That is correct. Those who have it.
>> Oh, only for those who have it. This is
for this is going to be going forward.
Any new hires will come under the new
policy, but any people before will be
grandfathered in regards of the
compensation.
>> They will not be grandfathered. They
will start to be paid either overtime or
allowed to take flex time. But if they
currently have comp time on their
record,
>> they just won't lose it.
They just can
use it as they
>> and they can continue to use it.
>> But anybody new won't acquire comp time.
It'll be overtime.
I'm pretty sure that everything that you
were telling us is already been legally
looked at and in good standings and
compliance with the fab uh the labor
standards act and the NC personnel law.
So I know that
you were covered.
>> Still all these items have been reviewed
by our labor employment team.
>> That's what I want to make sure.
[clears throat]
>> Okay.
And then I I do have a question. Didn't
we receive an email that there was um
changes made to the grievance policy?
>> There were some So it was just some
clarifying. It was to clarify it. We
didn't really change really any of the
substance of the grievance policy. We
tried to write it in a format that was
more clear to any employees who elected
to use it.
>> Okay. So is there anything that we
needed to review on that? because I
didn't have an original and I don't know
if it's already updated in the personnel
policy where it says updates through 8
2026. I'm assuming that the the change
Sorry, my computer's getting wonky.
There we go. I'm assuming that whatever
that change was, it is reflected in
that.
>> It is reflected in that personnel policy
update document. Correct.
But there was there was no need to write
a resolution because we did not remove
or add really any provisions to that.
clarified.
>> So then I have a question and I don't
know if it's something that I need to
ask or discuss after the meeting because
it's not necessarily directly tied to
all of this, but um
actually I'll I'll email you my
questions and then we can talk about it
later. Okay,
>> great. Thank Thank you. Um so with that
the four the four actions we don't have
to take we don't have to take action on
the four actions if you feel like one we
need to discuss further I think I think
it's some that is really
easy so um anybody got any concerns with
any of the full actions and if so we'll
take it off and bring it back later
we'll get some more clarity on
>> I personally have a problem with the
part-time benefits
>> part-time benefits was at uh number one.
>> Action one.
[snorts]
>> I think it's action.
>> I don't know. I'm not looking at the
right is action one.
>> It's action one.
>> Number one. Okay. So, um
so any other ones anybody got concern
with?
If not, I'll entertain a motion on
action two, three, and four.
I move to approve resolution making
technical changes to the personnel
policy actions two through four. So I
got a motion second.
>> Second.
>> Got a motion second. Any further
discussion?
>> Not hearing it. All in favor say I.
>> I.
>> Any opposed? Sound like the eyes have
it? Eyes do have it. Motion's approved.
So two two, three, and four is approved.
Now let's talk about action one so we
get clarity on that. Um,
do we do we want to vote on action one
and see where the vote lands or we just
want to send it back for some comments
on on on changes? How do how did board
want to handle action one?
>> I say we vote, Mr. Mayor, but we also
need to have any questions that the
commissioner has so we can get those
addressed and I would like to, but if
not, I think we no need to kick the can
down the curve any further.
I just I I don't see where it's a cost
savings if it's only limited to a couple
of people and that can make the all the
difference in the world to those two
people who actually need these resources
when it's so difficult in today's time
frame you know with the cost of
insurance if they can even get a little
bit of help on that by working for for
the town here
I don't see
I I I don't see a significant savings
and all it would doing is hurting, you
know, a couple of people that actually
utilize it and and need to utilize it.
>> So, correct me if I'm wrong, Shandra,
but they are grandfathered. So, they
will not lose their current benefits.
It's only if we hired someone else to
>> Yeah. And and they don't necessarily
have to participate within the benefits.
But if it is only a couple positions
where that would actually come into
play, then
I I feel that, you know, as as a town
leave it be.
>> But essentially, we are
>> Yeah. But I'm saying to
the next person that takes that
position,
if they need to utilize healthc care
benefits, for example,
having that option there, we're going
to, you know, it's just going to be a
draw for a better qualified person, too.
But but let me make sure I understood
this correctly because I I I'm a
healthcare u advocate. But I also heard
you say that the hours would be and thus
that they wouldn't qualify for benefits
anyway in the part-time.
>> They would certainly be under the 30 to
be considered uh full-time and we could
make efforts to keep them under the uh
20 hours
>> so that they were not
>> So then that's making it more difficult
though. Correct. Because you're really
doing it for two people out of the grand
scheme of the 100 plus employees that we
have.
>> So without getting into the details of
the positions themselves, was there any
re was this an incentive to hire people
to give them this even though the hours
were lower than full-time? And does that
if there if it was does that motivation
make sense in the future where
Commissioner Bernett's point makes a lot
of sense? I believe it used to be more
of a common practice for municipalities
to offer benefits to their part-time
staff. Yeah.
>> And again, just as times have changed,
that is something and the costs honestly
have increased on healthcare. The cost
goes up each year, it's something that
people are looking at a lot more
closely.
>> So, is this a longevity of employment
issue more than anything else?
the fact that these individuals have
been here a long time
>> and that
>> absolutely we don't we certainly don't
want to take anything away from our
current staff.
>> Understood. But just trying to find out
why they were given it in the first
place and it's just because it was a
long time ago
>> and it's cheaper.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. Thank you.
>> Yeah. And towns, you know, they whatever
you guys want to do.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, you know, it's it's up
[clears throat] to vote of the board.
Um, I would I would say y'all kind of
collaborate, figure out if y'all want to
bring it back to the board in, you know,
in the future or something.
>> I don't I don't think why we have to
wait, Mr. Mayor. I think we can put this
to a vote.
>> Oh, if you if board wants to put it to
vote, we will.
>> I mean, I think that's the right thing
to do in this scenario.
>> Okay. If that's what the board wants to
do, you guys want to put it vote?
>> I'll make a motion.
>> I'll make a
>> So, I move
>> You made a motion of what? I was going
to make a a motion to
deny the approval of
>> action.
one
>> one. Thank you. Because I don't have
that proper list in front of me. Um that
was my motion was to deny.
>> Okay.
>> Further action on
>> Okay. So
>> whose motion goes first, Mr. Mayor?
>> What motion goes first?
>> Who went first? Clerk, you you
>> he did. All right. So your motion. When
do you make your motion
>> to move forward with the mo for action
one?
>> I got a motion to approve. Is there a
second on approval?
» Wait a minute. So you're you're making a
motion to approve it?
>> Yes.
>> And you're making a motion to just my my
>> Just to clarify, I think Lynwood's
motion is to approve that we won't pay
>> to do away with.
>> It's a motion to prove what the what the
personnel department is.
No, it's a motion not to do it. Uh, so
is there a second to Lwood's motion?
All right, that motion dies. So I hear
next motion. Does someone else want to
make a motion?
>> I make a motion to
deny
>> action. Action item one.
>> Action one.
>> in the personnel policy changes.
>> I got a motion to deny. Is there a
second?
>> I'll second.
>> I got a motion. Second. Is there any
further discussion?
Not hearing any. All in favor say I.
>> I.
>> Any oppose?
>> Nay.
>> I would like to eyes have it. Eyes do
have it.
>> You lose that one.
>> I.
>> Thanks. Appreciate it.
>> Thank you.
>> Um, okay. Next item
is um
legislative hearing. We've been going a
hour and a half. Is it is the board
okay? Continue.
>> All right.
>> So, um legislative hearing re 25-06
uh gov whale and re25-1
and nx26-2
weight med resoning and annexation.
Stephen, I think you I see you up there.
You're taking that off. I'm [snorts]
gonna hear um
first of all I'm g hear any comments
from staff and then I'll take any
comments from the applicants and then I
open up the public hearing for any
comments from the public. So it's all
you Stephen.
Okay.
On
this side.
I had this in. This wasn't working. And
this is
[snorts]
how you move.
advance to the next page.
» Yeah, if they don't get it right quick,
we're going to we're going to let them
work on this technical issue for a
minute. So, we're going to take a um
probably about a 10-minute recess. So,
let's uh let's come back at 8:15. 8:15.
Thank you, boys. Appreciate it.
Okay, we will call back to order the
rollill uh board of commissioner
meeting. Uh we are on item 10- A,
legislative hearing, and I think you got
everything working.
>> We hope so.
>> All right, Stephen, it's up to you. All
right. So, this is the uh the reszoning
and the annexation for the wake project.
It's 4801 Burlington Mills grounds. The
address it's about 31 acres. It's
currently zoned
residential. It will be a conditional
highway a commercial highway conditional
zoning district
with the proposed use being hospital.
That's the use of uses. That's the
closest land use that matches
contiguous voluntary.
So you see in your in your packet there
were seven listed conditions. I believe
has an additional one which I will explain. The first one is a list
of prohibited uses. The second one is
just compiance with the conceptual plan
which you'll see tonight
140,000 square feet of gross floor area
for non residential use 150 setback and
adjoining Bington sub properties a
maximum building height of 55 a
perimeter buffer
with a Bington Hall drive which would be
a minimum of 50 ft and 50oot undisturbed
buffer along the common property line
open
The eighth condition which
um which I received late this afternoon
um has to do with extending
u
having a buffer of the ambulance area
that is equal to our our our loading
standards
in in the code which is a pretty
substantial buffer. So it's it's it's
increasing the buffer between the
ambulance loading area and the the
street because otherwise there's a break
when the street comes through it leaves
a break in that buffer yard and the
street yard is not very robust.
So
>> you said you're increasing the buffer
between
>> Yeah, they're they're committing to to
matching the loading standards in our
code.
>> Um it's I don't believe it's a distance.
This is just a landscape provision.
» Um,
>> Commissioner Lenwood, uh, Commissioner
Long, uh, the the provision in the LDO
that I reviewed and the the condition
that I reviewed, uh, used the term
screening, and that may be the term that
the board is most familiar with, the
idea of screening, loading, and
unloading areas. So, uh, while that may
or may not have been applicable to the
hospital drive, uh, the condition that I
reviewed that I assume is now being
profered is one to treat that area as
though screening was required as
provided by the LDO.
>> Thank you for that clarification.
This next slide has to do with
compliance with comprehensive plan.
um comprehensive plan identifies the
area as civic and commercial center.
The civic uses um
include institutional uses and
commercial center includes conventional
commercial uses along primary corridors.
The Roseville transportation plan
provides for a Burlington Mills Road
four-lane divided section with curving
gutter, bike lanes and sidewalk. Granite
Falls will have a two-lane section with
two-way left turn lane, curb and gutter,
bike lanes and sidewalks, and the
greenway bike plans on both sides of the
frontages. So, this would as these roads
get built out, they will be built to
those standards
for how far out because as we all know,
the middle school, it's a virtual
parking lot twice a day and it's not
rush hour. So it doesn't fit in the
transportation plan.
>> Yeah. This applies to this property. So
any any
portion of these roads that the
development is responsible for, they
will have to build to those standards.
>> Doesn't alleviate the problem down the
road a little tiny bit.
>> At this time,
>> um a traffic impact analysis was
prepared by Stantech. Matt Peach is
here. should there be any questions
regarding that. But the total weekday
daily trips was 1550.
Um so in terms of comp plan consistency,
hospital use along with pro proposed
conditions of uh approval define a
project that is consistent with both the
civic and commercial center land use
categories. The concept plan illustrates
side pass bike lanes along
[clears throat] Burlington Mills Road as
I just said and the town is prepared to
um complete uh Granite Falls Boulevard
in the next year.
Um [clears throat]
so I've got a several proposed motions.
Um, one two of them have to do with the
reszoning and then one with the
annexation
for your consideration. With that is
here to speak to the proposal.
>> Any uh questions for the staff?
>> The what's our current maximum building
height limit?
>> I don't know that offh hand.
>> I mean in general or just for the the um
>> they're proposing 55 ft. I don't think
we've approved anything that high yet,
but I
>> 60 ft is the max for
um
and that that is actually the highest or
the tallest building allow allowment.
>> So I was looking through all this
earlier.
Yeah, I the commercial highway district
I I do have questions with because
general commercial is 35 ft.
The only other one that is 60 ft is
business, industrial and technology
and general industrial.
>> Uh we approved 45. What's cobblestone?
Do you know?
>> I thought it was 60 or or pushing 60.
>> Cobblestone town center was like four
stories which typically
>> well 60 feet I googled it is typically
four to six stories.
>> So cobblestone has four. Yeah.
>> So is this outside of this? You said
this was highway zoning
>> commercial highway.
Is that what you
said?
>> Mhm.
>> So it's 55 ft outside of that or is
within
>> I mean don't know that standard off
hand.
>> I mean it wouldn't be in compliance if
it was outside. You [clears throat] mean
you wouldn't bring it to if it's outside
of
>> I mean it yes it must be 60 because we
don't we're not allowed to go above and
beyond. So the conditions would only
restrict things.
>> Yeah. Yeah, the commercial highway
district. Um, it's a max of 60 ft with
sprinklers.
>> Yeah. So, you know, it wouldn't be in
front of us if it was outside of the
>> restricting it by 5t
>> by condition.
>> That's right.
>> Can you just clarify the 40,000 square
foot? Meaning, is that like total
development of the property or is that
per building or we talking about?
>> That's the building. The ER,
>> the ER, the standalone ER,
>> the total development of the property is
40,000 inclusive of all buildings.
>> Yes.
>> All buildings.
>> Yes.
>> Which is the ER, which is the ER, but
there's also other buildings that
they're going to be promoting as well as
part of this. Is there like correct?
This is not just the ER.
>> One building proposed on the concept
plan.
>> Yeah. So, the one building, the ER
building is 40,000 square feet, correct?
Okay.
Any
other questions?
» That's the question.
>> Okay,
>> that's where the question came.
>> If you would uh step up, introduce
yourself
who you represent.
>> And then how do I do you have that on my
>> Oh, I'm sorry.
>> Uh
getting used to these microphones. Uh
good evening. Uh Toby Coleman with Smith
Anderson here on behalf of the property
owner applicant uh Wake Med. Uh thank
you for your time this evening and I I
will endeavor to try to answer the
questions that have been raised and do
it in as as efficiently as possible
which um
may take a little bit longer than five
minutes but I'll try to keep it there.
Um so this is a proposal. This resoning
is really to facilitate the uh what
Wiggman calls a health plex essentially
a standalone emergency department. Um
see there sort of the basics of it. It's
a it's a 12 room facility with imaging
services, lab services, a designated
ambulance area. Most of the patients are
treated and sent home. This is the place
to go when you have broken bones or or
other sort of urgent uh urgent medical
needs. Uh that typically right now
people are driving 20 30 minutes to to
go to other uh health plexes or to the
hospital for um and provides sort of
local access uh to a much needed
facility here in in town. Um the reason
that Wake Med is looking to do this is
it would be the first facility of this
type in Rollsville would surround would
uh serve about 18,000 people a year, 50
people a day. Um would help both uh
residents of the town as well as other
folks uh in northern Wake County and the
surrounding counties. Uh and again, we
expect that most people will be coming
by car. Um that's based on the
experience of the other health plexes uh
in the county. Um there will be some
ambulance traffic uh but it'll be like
10% of the total traffic. Um just to
give you a sense on how this fits this
is uh Wake Med uses a hub and spoke
model. Um the red there are the
hospitals um and then you have the
ambulatory network medical office
buildings. Uh and then the yellow are
the health plexus um circled the
Rollsville one up there at the top. Um
there's three current health plexes. uh
one in Brier Creek, one in uh Wendell,
and one in Apex. Uh that [clears throat]
we're proposing this one, and then
there's another uh proposed down in
Fugquway Verina. Um these are sort of
the way to sort of get some services uh
out to folks without bringing the whole
hospital to you.
Um
this is a you I just want to emphasize
that this is really in line with Wake
Med's overall mission which is to you
know improve the health and well-being
for the community um while providing
outstanding and compassionate care to
all. Wake is a nonprofit entity. It's
been uh the wake the the county's u uh
health system for the last 65 or so
years. Um, and so really what we're
looking to do is is improve the uh
health care for folks here. Wake me does
a lot of community benefits uh you know
a lot of charity care uh and just the
last year almost 100 million in charity
care um and provides other community
benefits uh that that stack up uh over
the years. Um, in terms of the overview
to to get to uh a question that
Commissioner Long uh raised, this zoning
is just for the ED. So, in other words,
it will only allow up up to 40,000
square feet of non-residential space.
And we envision that'll be a single
building, about 36,000 square feet. Um
and uh
what we've done is in and I'll go into
this in a little bit more detail, but um
we've added zoning conditions to really
address some of the concerns we've heard
from the neighbors in the Bington
subdivision, which is immediately to the
east. Um so that the particular a couple
of ones that I want to highlight are,
you know, there's an extra-large minimum
building setback of 150 ft. um the um
larger sub u landscape buffers along the
perimeter of 50 50 feet in width. Um and
then the other thing to note is is that
this does not open the door to
additional development. If if there was
additional development of any kind on
this site, we would have to come back.
The way the zoning conditions are
written, we'd have to do a new resoning.
You know, we may not be we may be
keeping the same sort of commercial
highway designation, but the idea is is
when we when we started this process, we
wanted to make it clear we are asking
for an emergency department, an
emergency department only. And if
there's future development, you know, if
things took off and and there was a a
need or a desire for additional um
services, we would have to come back.
We'd have to go through the same process
with the neighbors. We have to go
through the same process plan commission
and the board and the board of
commissioners. So that's that's the
idea. That's the way we structured it.
Um, one of the questions we got a lot
from the neighbors, so I just wanted to
address it quickly, is why here? Why
can't you do it somewhere else? Um, and
you know, there's a lot of there's a lot
of reasons for that, but we just wanted
to highlight a couple. Um, it's one of
the few large undeveloped tracks that's
sort of designated for civic and
commercial use under the town's
comprehensive plan. and it's also right
next to the existing downtown
opportunity zone, downtown residential
zone, which is outlined in purple in
this map. So, we think this is a an
excellent site. It's located sort of in
the central part of town near the
central business district. The other
really important part that a lot of
other sites didn't quite make is is it
has good road access. So recognizing
that we've heard some concerns about
road issues on you know like around the
schools but these are you know it's at
the intersection of two two thoroughares
uh the existing Burlington Mills road
and then the southern terminus of Grant
Falls Parkway which will be constructed
in part as part of this development.
Um we have met with the neighbors a
couple times and had other conversations
outside of neighborhood meetings. Um,
and you know, I would, we heard a lot of
concerns from neighbors. I'm sure you'll
hear some of them again tonight. Um, I
would put those into sort of generally
four buckets. Um, one was if you're
going to be here, move the health plex
as far away as possible. We've been
working on that. The zoning condition
sets sort of a minimum standard of 150
ft, but as I'll detail, we've been
working to try to figure out and do more
than that. Um, on top of that, um, the
other we also were asked, can you
provide us additional buffering? That's
where the perimeter buffers and other
things come in. Can you help address our
concerns about we don't want to see it
out of our backyard and also concerns
about light impacts, noise impacts,
things like that? We're also asked, how
do we how can you help us if we're going
to have an emergency department here?
There's a lot of concern about
ambulances coming in for, you know, a
facility that's going to be open 24/7.
How do you address that? How can we
address that? And then finally, we heard
about traffic um
you know, concerns about not just
Burlington Mills um although you know
the as as been noted um the TIA found
generally that there wasn't going to be
significant impact on existing
Burlington existing traffic on
Burlington Mills. Um, we also heard a
lot of concern from uh Bington neighbors
about how this was going to impact them
because that portion of Granite Falls
Parkway that that is supposed to go
through Bar Bington has not been built
yet. It's something that's on that the
town is going to do. But we did hear a
lot of concerns about oh now you're
bringing us traffic through to us and we
and so that sort of one of the things
talked a lot the neighbors about and the
town got involved and talked a little
bit about the town's plans as well.
um in terms of the minimum setback. So
you can see here um what we've done is
establish a minimum 150 foot building
setback which is that that uh black
north south line. Um and it is zoning
condition number four. Um the idea there
is it's about you know about six times
what would normally be required under
the LDO. And the idea there is just to
set a minimum that the building can't
get too close.
But what we always told the neighbors
was we will try to get further away from
you. But we don't quite know what that's
going to be because we need to do
additional work um geotechnical surveys
uh to figure out what we can do. Um I
think as has been mentioned in all the
meetings and I know this is something
that you all are familiar with uh
there's a lot of rock around here and so
we didn't want to make promises we
couldn't keep which is why we set a
minimum 150 foot standard and said we're
going to work to move it further and so
ever since the neighborhood meetings in
the spring um we've been Wake and its
team has been doing geotechnical surveys
to try to figure out you know is are we
able to move the building further
uh west away from Bington. And the good
news is is those the information from
those surveys has started coming back
and Wakeman is very optimistic that it
will be able to move it further uh
further up. Um the uh further to the
west and to the north. Um exactly how
far we don't know because we haven't
done the site planning yet. But we are,
Wake is committed to doing that and and
trying to move it as far as possible
both to be good neighbors um and to you
try to address those concerns from
neighbors.
Um
the in terms of the large landscape
buffer um you know basically this was a
request from neighbors um again for you
know as much buffer as possible. Um the
standard would be in the LDO would be 25
feet of landscape buffer. We basically
doubled that. Um there's two different
types of buffers that you're seeing. Um
on the north side of Grant Falls is a
large landscape buffer with undisturbed
vegetation. Those are because there's
existing trees. The idea is is we're not
going to mess with that. South of uh
basically future Grant Falls, there are
no tree existing trees. So that'll be
landscaped. that's going to be uh a
pretty heavily planted area. Um that
goes that's we took the standard
planting requirements and we put in um
an additional uh set of evergreen trees
as a requirement uh nine per 100 ft. So
the idea there is is that um you know in
addition to having you know a buffer
during you know fall, spring and the
summer those evergreen trees will help
ensure that they have a year round
opaque buffer.
Um and then finally we did add another
we have proposed another uh zoning
condition. Um it came up this was a
request that sort of came up through the
neighbors and some communications uh
with staff about uh you know the desire
that if we were going to have the
ambulance drop off you know currently in
the concept plan the ambulance drop off is shown on the eastern side of
the building. Um and so there was a
concern that there would not be adequate
screening for that ambulance drop off
particularly
excuse me
particularly right here basically where
Granite Falls meets the property line
and the reasoning there is
um and so the the request was can you
add additional screening for an
ambulance drop off that is there so
we've proposed a zoning an an additional
zoning condition number eight that
basically provides that for any
ambulance drop off that's within 150 ft
of Granite Falls Parkway. So not the
property line but the actual road will
have to meet the screening standards
that are in in the LDO for loading docks
or other sort of things like that. So um
and the idea there is
that that should provide significant
additional screening if the ambulance
drop off is there. Again, one of the
things that that Wake me is committed to
doing as part of the site plan process
if this resoning is approved is to look
at moving the ambulance drop off to the
other side of the building, which should
also help address some of the concerns
from neighbors about that.
And just so you know, there's obviously
a concept. This is all coming from a
concept plan that's attached to the
resoning. I want to emphasize
just like um I want to emphasize that
the concept plan is not binding in terms
of the location of the building. You
know, the idea there is it gives people
an idea of what can be done, but it
doesn't prevent us from moving the
building further away. So, if you
approve the resoning, you're not saying
the building has to be here. We can move
the building west. We can put the
ambulance entrance on the other side of
the building. Um, it it allows for all
that and we will continue to work with
neighbors and keep neighbors updated uh
about that process.
In terms of ambulance um noise and
sirens, this was a concern we heard. Um,
one of the things that I personally
learned that I I wasn't fully aware of
is is that um, Wake EMT, which is our
which is the ambulance provider for Wake
County, um, has largely been moving away
from having its ambulances run sirens
and run um, its lights. Um, this has
been something that's been happening
over the last couple of years. The
background is is basically they found
that in a lot of cases it causes more
problems than it helps. And so our
expectation would be that uh consistent
with other health plexes most people
would be coming in private car without
sirens or lights about 80 90% of people.
That means about 5 to 10 ambulances
every 24 hours. And based on those uh
standards most of those ambulances would
not be running lights or sirens when
they arrive. So hopefully that would
reduce the impact of that.
Neighbors were very concerned about
that. And so one of the things we did
was work to connect neighbors with uh
WakeMS so they could have have
conversations directly with WakeMS about
those concerns.
Um finally I want to note a couple other
things. Um we heard sort of in addition
to all the other impacts we heard some
concerns about site lighting, parking
lot lighting and other things impacting
neighbors.
We looked at, you know, should do we
need to do a zoning condition and
ultimately what we concluded was your
LDO already handles a lot of these
issues. So, um, your LDO has a
requirement that all the building and
parking lot lights have to be cut off
lighting, so they can't be shooting up
in the air. Um, the, uh, there's
[clears throat] a restriction. We can't
put outdoor lighting within 52 feet of
the shared property line. And although, uh, parking lot lighting poles
can be up to 30 feet tall in the middle
of a parking lot. You have a requirement
that basically requires the poles go
down and get lower as you get to the
edge. And so as you get closer to
Bington, the tallest parking lot white
lighting poles could be would be 12 to
15 ft. So we felt like that was
sufficient to address a lot of the
concerns related to lighting. Um this
again is just sort of an overall summary
of the uh traffic impacts. Um, a lot of
where the what the TIA calls for are
improvements and turn lanes onto Granite
Falls from Bington Mills and or excuse
me, Burlington Mills and um some turn
lanes into the site from Granite Falls
Parkway. Um the um you know again there
is a there's sort of a um two-phase set
of improvements along Granite Falls that
be part of this development. Wake Med
would be doing the improvements for
Granite Falls on its portion of the road
of uh the property. So in other words,
from Burlington Mills up to the Bington
subdivision property line that would be
built by Wake Med as part of the
development.
>> Can you show me where that is? Because
that was a question that I had. Sure. If
you all were building part of that,
>> the the the portion outlined in blue
>> the blue part
>> is is wake the blue part
>> is w meds. The portion that's outlined
in red
>> is the right of way that has been
dedicated for Granite Falls in in the
Bington subdivision, but for whatever
reason, and I don't I don't know the
reason, was not required to be built at
the time of development,
>> right?
>> And so, as a result, it doesn't exist
right now. Mhm.
>> Um, we've had some conversations and
obviously, you know, staff can speak to
this better than we can, but it's our
understanding that the town does have a plan in place to construct that
portion of Grand Falls has has sort of
set that aside in your capital budget.
Um, so that is a project that the town
will be undertaking in the next few
years. There are some we did hear some
com some concerns from neighbors about,
you know, How can you fit it all?
Because the the Granite Falls Parkway
cross-section that the town wants is
relatively wide, wide sidewalks, things
like that.
What was dedicated in Bington may not be
sufficient to accommodate all that. The
town is aware of that as I understand it
and we'll work to accommodate that what
they've got.
Um,
so that's about it. We are available for
questions. Um, I'll be remiss in in not
mentioning that I've got Tom Cavender uh
with Wake Med, Nanny Curtis with Wake
Med, as well as um [clears throat] our
team from Timley Horn if you have any
engineering or traffic questions.
>> Okay, thank you. Um, do you have plans
for anybody to present anything else or
just answer questions? So, um, so before
I open up public hearing, does the board
have any questions for the attorney here
or anybody from Wake Med? And y'all know
Matt. He's a transportation engineer.
Um, anybody have any questions?
>> Yes, here.
>> I have one question. I I didn't I was
still trying to get back to um you you
leaned into some things that why
Roseville was chosen,
>> but I'm more curious of the data that
was used because there was data driven
decisions to choose Roseville. I I heard
you say the location of tri proximity of
traffic and those things, but I didn't
really hear what numbers were being used
to make that evaluation. Would you be
speaking to that or would that be the
weight team? Tom
>> because I think that's one of the things
that the citizens will want to know is
um beyond
um
roads and traffic um why us? So what
kind of data was driven to make that
decision? We were [clears throat] felt
that Roseville was an underserved area
medically and that with its location and
proximity to Wickman North and to
Raleigh campus which is what 30 minutes
south of 401, this area needed health
care brought to their community in the
form of of an emergency department to
take care of those people in critical
need that prevented them from having to
travel distances to see medical to seek
high level medical care. So that was it
was a business plan based on need of
this community and of this region.
>> Was it were the demographics included?
Was it based upon you know seniors
coming to the area like what what type
of again
>> demographics age growing population
travel distance time travel distance on
radiuses. We have a corporate planning
department that does all of those kind
of analytics that drives where we like
to place these kind of high these highly
functional facilities.
>> And I'm assuming with those analytics
there's like a top five that you say hey
these meet the marks before we do that.
>> I would say there's there's those
analytics have the top five like you
said but there's a little bit of gut ant
anticipation.
>> Okay. We know that the Roseville area is
a fast growing community. I think it's
like 8% projected and growing beyond
where we are today. And we felt that
this was a great location and a great
time to bring this kind of service to
this community that can have that has
the capacity to serve and match the
growing needs of this group.
>> Thank you.
>> Did you introduce yourself? Did I miss?
>> I will. Tom [clears throat] Cavender.
I'm the VP of construction and
facilities for Wake me.
>> Tom, Tom Tom, one follow-up question to
um Commissioner Long's question there
about how it got to Roseville. I think
you know, you did a good job answering
demographics, all that stuff, but it's a
competitive process at the state level
to get a hospital or emergency facility
anywhere. So, it was like a competitive
process with several other medical
providers and Wake Med uh got the
approval to put it here. Is that right?
[clears throat]
>> You're correct on a portion of that. The state medical facilities plan has
several different categories. One is a
competitive process which is like
operating rooms, patient beds and then
there's other services and the emergency
these standalone emergency departments
do require a co that became that got
approved by the state. Um and that the
state looks at the demographics. They
look at the need and and and what will
this do to this community as part of
their state review. Um, but there's but
it did but it did include a certificate
of need to be able to to be awarded this
location.
>> Thank you. Any other questions for Tom?
If not,
>> I have a couple of questions, but I'm
This is probably more engineering
related,
>> but uh
I understand that you guys have already
been looking at like the soil
composition and being able to determine
if the site can be moved further to the
west side.
How much more time is needed to be able
to determine um the the availability of
the land use plus the um and how much
more time is needed to determine the
feasibility of moving um the ambulance
bay from the east side to the west side
>> moving the ambulance bay [clears throat]
is something we can do relatively
quickly because what we would
essentially do is invert the design and
structure the soil the soil
investigations are ongoing. We know that
there's a ridge of rock that goes
through a portion of that
>> and we're trying to position the
facility to help help us with our cost
for sure
>> as well as position it so it's still
accessible on the site itself
>> um from future granite Falls Parkway.
So, and then uh I guess the other
question too is that if if we do approve
tonight,
how do we know what kind of conditions
can we set forth to
make sure that this is still being
pursued? You know, because really the
ultimate setup would be that the
ambulance bay is on the other side and
the building is pushed further to the
west. Um
you know, if we were to approve today,
then you can just say, "Yep, here we go.
we've got the plan, we can't move
anything. You know, what insuranceances
would we have that you would still be
pursuing um changing
the location of this to a more optimal
site for residents and neighbors?
>> I [clears throat] think it's a situation
where we are going to do we respect the
neighborhoods
>> and we respect what and in the time that
as Toby indicated the public hearings we
had or the neighborhood meetings we had.
uh we understand the challenges that
this facility may provide
>> and we'll we'll strive to do whatever we
can do to minimize and mitigate those.
Um I don't So it's essentially a trust
factor.
>> Okay. And just because I didn't write it
down, could you tell me again just um
how much longer [clears throat] it's
going to take with the feasibility
studies of the land? I do not have that
timeline for when we'll make a a defined
uh position or or approval
>> yet, but I know that we're completing
all those soul borings as as we speak.
>> Okay.
>> I would say 30 days maybe. Okay. Five
days.
>> Like between one to two months.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
» Okay. Uh attorney, do you have a
comment? I do. Uh based upon uh comment
for by the attorney uh for the applicant
uh there was a comment about uh being
able to shift the building and the
drives to the west and northwest. The
way the conditions were submitted uh to
the town
that's arguably not permitted. that is
the concept plan is the concept plan and
those are committed elements and drive
location and building location is to be
where the board is shown it is to be uh
I would suggest uh to the applicant and
to the town that condition uh have a
sentence added to it if that's the will
of the applicant um and the board uh
that it include the sentence
notwithstanding the foregoing building
and drive locations may be shifted west
and to the northwest to increase
distances between such committed
elements and the eastern property line
so that
>> so
>> we don't close that off
>> you the staff cannot
>> even if it's a great idea and wakeed or
the uh future hospital that that runs it
uh wants to go farther as written I
don't know that that would be allowed so
I I would suggest that that small
revision and I'm comfortable with that
language as as recited.
>> That is that is fine. Yeah, we're more
than fine with that. We had we had
attempted and obviously this is a team sport in a lot of ways. We
attempted to try to try to achieve that
with the current version number two, but
I think that that
more clarifies it,
>> excuse me, clarifies it better. Um,
excuse my language. Um the um the other
thing I want to note is is that we have
been in communication
um with the uh Bington neighborhood
leadership uh the HOA leadership. Um and
one of the things we've talked about
Commissioner Bernard is that you know
where the rubber is really going to hit
[clears throat] the road in terms of
location is going to be with the site
plan. And so we we've already started
talking with the neighborhood about how
do we keep you all informed about the
site plan process because it is
administrative and so how do we make
sure that that they're getting access
and seeing that and know that that is
there. And so we're we're committed to
that. um both because we want to be good
neighbors but also because we recognize
that if this site ultimately grows if
there's other things that happen here we
will be coming back
and I would anticipate that if we come
back there'll be somebody with memory
here and they'll be looking at it and
saying if we don't work with the
neighbors you said you were going to
work with the neighbors last time and so
we we recognize there's long memories
and that there's both reasons as
neighbors to do it, but also practical
reasons to get it done.
>> You guys considered a portal for
Barington just to have them strictly for
them to see u development? Well, I mean
really for anyone, but to designate for
them a portal that will help them
identify and see your site plans on the
go. So that way the administratively you
don't have to do it consistently and
they can go back to it. And then in that
section, us as the board will also have
access to it as well. So that way it
keeps everyone informed. It's digitized
and it gives you an opportunity to keep
real-time updates. Is that possible?
>> That's certainly possible. I think I'd
want to talk with uh your planning staff
because I know that with your new
system, a lot of that stuff has become
more available through the city through
the town system.
>> Anytime there's an approved plan or an
action by the board, all that gets
loaded up to the planning page of the
website. So there will be a already is
probably uh a growing
item for Wake Med. So
>> but but I'm really was just referring to
the Barington
>> just really for those leadership that
you were mentioning. Yeah.
>> Obviously we have access to the
dashboard but to to accommodate their
angst. Is that something that you would
be willing to do if you will?
>> I I don't know. That's something that
the the the Bington residents will have
to sign off on, but just trying to come
up with ways to alleviate um some
administrative but also some some peace
of mind with communication.
>> Yeah, I think that's a great idea and I
think I was just looking over at the
Wakeman team just to make sure they're
comfortable with it and they are. Um, I
think what we'd want to do, um, is
figure out, again, work with your staff
to figure out what is the best way to do
that to make sure that
there's confidence
that they're getting all the information
and it's coming. I think the more that
it can come from the town and the town
can say this is the stuff that we have
in our
um in our system as the as things are
going through the process, I think the
more helpful that'll be. Um, that's just
based on my experience of, you know,
sometimes people suspect that if you if
it's coming straight from the applicant
that they're giving you just what what
they want you to see sort of thing.
>> Thank you. Thanks. Appreciate that. An
email of the question.
>> Uh, Matt,
how are you this evening, Matt?
>> Doing well. Um, my name is Matt Peach,
Stantech Consulting Services, uh,
traffic engineer. Very happy to be in
front of you tonight. happy to answer
any questions you may have. Commissioner
Paul,
>> so have you ever been stuck in the
traffic of the parents picking up their
children from the middle school?
>> Uh uh yes, I have. Uh well, my
daughter's currently in elementary
school, so I do get caught in a parent
carpool quite often, only at a
elementary school.
>> I'm talking on Burlington Mills Road.
>> On Burlington Mills Road, I have not.
>> Okay. I've been stuck there literally
for 20 minutes not moving a single foot.
So, and it's a safety hazard. It
shouldn't happen, but it does twice a
day.
>> How does that factor into the 1500 plus
uh vehicles that are going to come in
and out of the Wake Med campus every
day?
>> Yes. So
>> because it's not rush hour, 2:20 in the
afternoon is not rush hour. So it
doesn't factor into your analysis, but
it is a huge problem. And my
understanding is that someday Burlington
Mills will be a four-lane road. My guess
is it's probably not for another 15 or
20 years.
>> Correct. Um so there's there's a couple
of different ways we go about looking at that and then those concerns. Um,
obviously we study both the the morning
peak and the evening peak, right? Uh,
the evening peak doesn't overlap with
the middle school. Um, because the
evening peak typically occurs from 400
p.m. to 6 p.m., right? Um, so in 4 p.m.
to 6 p.m. we actually see better
operations along Burlington Mills Road
than we do from 7:00 to 9:00 a.m.
because of exactly the middle school,
right? Um, so what [clears throat]
you'll see in the study is we do see
longer delays in the morning. Um, but
that's attributed to middle school
traffic, right? Um, now what I will say
about this facility is that this
facility and and you know, please don't
quote me on this, but this is a facility
that's going to be open 24 hours a day,
seven days a week. Um, so I would, you
know, from from my per personal and
professional opinion, I would to expect
to see some staff changes. Um would
those staff changes occur right when uh
the middle school is running a morning
carp pool? That that I can't say. Um
what I will say is what we studied um in
the traffic study and you saw it on the
earlier slide was actually medical
office building. Uh the reason we did
that uh was because as part of the LDO
uh during any reasonzoning we're
required to study a range of uses that
are proposed and we intentionally select
the highest generating use. Um so
there's there is data that says that a
freestanding emergency department
generates so much traffic. It's actually
less than what we studied in the traffic
study because of the way the LDO is
written. Um, so we study medical dental
because not only does it generate more
traffic throughout a day, it generates
more traffic during those peak hours. So
we wanted to kind of get the highest um
generating impact during that am peak
hour because we know operations along
Burlington Mills Road is not great
whenever the middle school is is in
session. Um,
>> yeah. And my concern is that parent who
has a child with a broken leg or broken
arm and they get stuck in that 2:20 in
the afternoon traffic and can't move.
There's no way to go around it.
>> Yes.
>> And no way to turn around and go
backwards. So that's not a statistic for
your TIA. It's a fact that's going to
happen at some point if there's nothing
to remediate that.
>> That is correct and that that is that is
definitely a definitely a concern. Um I
will say that the uh Granite Falls
extension will will help in providing
another route. Right.
>> Of course. Now for someone west of the
Wake Med Center on Burlington Mills.
>> That is also correct. So yes, west west
of there the the connectivity is is not
as great as it is to the east.
>> Okay, that's all I got for you. Thank
you, sir.
>> I have a question. Yes, ma'am.
>> You have a question? No.
>> Go right ahead. Okay. So, um,
in the past when the traffic analysis
were done, they were based on 2% growth.
>> And in this one, I saw 1%.
>> That's correct.
>> Is why is that? I don't want to
speculate.
>> Yeah. So, historically, we have chosen
2% in Rollsville because, as you know,
Rollsville is is growing. Um, in in this
instance, we we chose 1% because of the
excessive amount of development in this
area, right? Not only do we have
Wahbrook, we have Wahbrook Flats and and
other kind of developments in the area.
So, we intentionally chose a lower kind
of background growth rate, if you will,
because we were accounting for so many
known developments in the area. Pierce
Farm, um gosh, there's there's a few
others.
>> Is that like catchup catchup numbers?
Cat t catch up, not ketchup. Um, is that like um because the pool is so
big right now? That is that why 2%
wasn't used and the 1% was
>> because the known developments are so
large. Yes, that's correct.
>> Okay.
>> Well, I heard the applicant talk about
an 8% growth rate and that was the part
of the attraction to be here.
>> And then you're using a 1%
>> well a 1% flat rate applied to to every,
you know, intersection in the study
area. But on top of that, what traffic
we know is coming from, you know, the
Pierce Farms and the Wall Brooks and
etc., we factor that in too. So the
actual growth rate is much much higher.
>> Yes.
>> Um now I I will say Commissioner Sne um
we studied uh an opening year of 2027 as
that was what was directed to us. So
using a 1% versus a 2% growth rate isn't
going to make a substantial difference
in the results because of the short time
horizon.
>> And those other developments, all of
those other developments were already
factored in. You said
>> correct.
>> Okay.
>> Y
>> that's all I have. Thank you.
>> Any other questions for Matt?
>> Thank you, Matt.
>> Thank you.
>> Any other questions? See you, Matt.
>> Thank you.
>> Any other questions for the applicant?
Lovely.
>> Not for the staff and we'll open up the
public hearing.
Uh, anything closing comments from the
staff before I open up public hearing?
>> No, sir.
Thank you. Appreciate that.
Okay, I will open up the public hearing
and um this is for legislative hearing
RZ25-06
and RZ25-1
and ANX26-2.
Um we [snorts] have one person to sign
up and uh Terry Keenan come on down. uh
we limit to three minutes but being we
don't have one person it's not really
>> a lot of people to speak so um
>> but keep you [laughter]
keep it brief as as possible thank you
>> keep as brief as possible um
>> good evening mayor commissioners um as
most of you know my name is Tony Kenyan
I'm a Rosewood resident I'm a Rosewood
business owner I'm also the Bington HOA
dire one of the Barington HOA directors
um I want to begin by making one thing
very Clear. I support Wake coming to
Roseville. Our growing community
deserves timely access to highquality
emergency care. My concern tonight is
not whether we need this facility. My
concern is whether the zoning decision
being made tonight adequately protects
our community. Not only the project
being not only for the project being
presented today, but for the future. I
have three specific questions. May not
ask all three because a lot of those
were already answered. Jen kind of was
all in my Kool-Aid. Um, first is
traffic. The traffic impact analysis
summary shows conditions at Burlington
Mills Road and Old Burlington Mills
Road, Wallbook Flats, is changing from a
level of service E with 44.3 seconds of
delay in the no build scenario to a
level of service F with 61.6 seconds in
the build scenario. The more detailed
analysis also shows the southbound left
turn delay increasing from 98.3 seconds
to 144.3 seconds while remaining level
of service F. Yet the report ultimately
concludes that no improvement is
required at this location and that the
applicable town standard is satisfied. I
am not a traffic engineer and I do not
want to misinterpret the technical
standard. So before voting, I
respectfully ask the board to have their
traffic engineer explain how these
results satisfy section 8. E of
Roseville's land development ordinance.
Um also to speak to Michael Pauls, if
you look at the build loss at Wal Co and
Burlington Mill, it goes from a level B
to a D. That is a decline. I don't know
what numbers they use, but that's not
great. Second is the commercial highway
conditional zoning. I understand that
this approval specifically proid
prohibits several uses normally
associated with commercial highway
zoning. I appreciate those restrictions.
However, I would like to know which
non-medical commercial highway uses
remain permitted under this approval and
whether any of those could those uses
could replace or supplement the hospital
in the future without another
legislative resoning hearing. If the
purpose of this resoning is to
accommodate a hospital and related
medical services, I respectfully ask the
board to consider whether the permitted
uses should reflect that purpose. Second
is the commercial highway conditional
zoning and the future use future use of
this property. I understand that Wake
Med has stated that it does not intend
to develop the site into a fullervice
hospital and I appreciate that
clarification. However, zoning decisions
last much longer than current
development plans. The traffic impal
impact analysis itself evaluates a
future fullervice medical center
scenario on this property. I also
understand that this larger scenario was
requested by the town as he just
mentioned and was not presented by Wake
Med as its current development plan.
Before voting, I respectfully ask the
board to clarify those things and
recommended recommendations
um and to make sure that they have been
incorporated in the final enforcable
zoning conditions. If they have not,
which protections are not included and
why?
>> Thank you, Tony. Um any other comments
from the public for against
um
Come on up, state your name. wants to
tighten tighten me down. [clears throat]
» Your name and address, please.
>> Excuse me, sir.
>> State your name and address.
>> My name is Elfie Shock. I live at 521
Kenton Mill Court, which is in the town
homes, the the towns at Bington.
Um, I respectfully ask that before you
make any decisions or take any kind of
vote, y'all are invited to come over to
our community, which is literally just
walk out this door right here, go
through the woods, and it's right there.
And take a look at the extension. the
developer that built and I'm I'm sure
your attorney is familiar with the
history.
He didn't leave any room to do that
extension. When I say he didn't leave
any room, it's it's wide enough for a a
bike path, a foot path, but I think you
would have to take some town homes and
destroy them and take them by eminent
domain to be able to get a road through
there, especially the one that was
proposed initially when you um were
first given the information tonight.
>> Thank you. Appreciate that.
>> So, please come over and see how much
space you have to work with.
>> Yeah. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Any uh anybody else?
» Evening. My name is Aaron Sullivan. I
live at 230 Bridgeoint Drive, which is
the very first townhouse um where the
new extension is supposed to go. Um I
moved to this town, bought my Honda or
townhouse
February of last year. um moved to a
small town in a growing area. But um
just would like you all to consider the
fact that
having a
facility like that in my backyard um
with the lights and sirens and
everything else um is not something that
I was looking forward to when I decided
to become a citizen of this town. Um I
think that
um it is going to be a burden on the
community as far as um the amount of
traffic um if the road does go through
um it will cause additional traffic
issues through our neighborhood. Um I
haven't
in all of these meetings um my neighbors
with children have gone up and
presenting their presented their
concerns to um
Wake Med. I don't even have kids but
kids are all over the neighborhood. Um
they spend a lot of time in that area.
Um and it's just something that needs to
be considered. I'm not a parent, but I
am a proponent of the fact that we have
a lot of active young children in the
neighborhood. Um, so just would like to
ask you to keep that in mind for your
decision.
>> Thank you. Appreciate that. Anybody else
want to speak?
» My name is William Een Johnson. I live
at 532 Bington Hall Drive. Um, and so
I'm here to respectfully oppose this
proposed resoning. Uh first the change
is inconsistent with the intent of civic
zoning. Civic use land is generally
intended for low impact public functions
like schools, libraries, etc. A
standalone emergency department is a
high intensity 24-hour medical facility.
Uh a lot of data shows that standalone
emergency departments often generate
multiple times the daily amount of
traffic and use than that of typical
civic use buildings. Uh this would
significantly increase traffic on
residential streets that were never
designed for that volume. Um, our two
older children play uh with their
friends throughout our neighborhood as
was mentioned earlier. Uh, they often
travel among the homes down to the town
homes on foot, bike, sled when the
winter provides us some snow. Um, and
this in this increased traffic would
prevent a significant safety hazard for
our kids as well as anyone in the in the
neighborhood. Um, especially with the
completion of the Granite Falls
Boulevard uh that's intended at some
point in the next couple of years. Uh,
second, noise and operational impacts
are unavoidable. Um, emergency
departments operate around the clock.
They do involve in some cases sirens,
emergency vehicles, people traveling at
high speeds, um, and high intensity
lighting. Uh, research shows that this,
um, that residents adjacent to emergency
facilities routinely experience noise
levels that exceed safety thresholds.
Uh, third, there are measurable public
safety and crime related considerations.
Studies in urban planning and law
enforcement cons consistently show that
highintensity 247 facilities
particularly those associated with
emergency medical services tend to
attract increased calls for police
services, loitering and opportunistic
crime uh compared to low impact civic
uses. Uh fourth, property values are our
impacts are well documented. Uh real
estate and land use studies indicate
that proximity to high-intensity medical
or emergency facilities can reduce
nearby residential property values by 5
to 15% depending on traffic, noise and
visual impact. For a lot of families,
their home is their primary or largest
financial asset. This resoning would
introduce a risk that was not there when
many of us purchased our homes. Uh
fifth, from a plan perspective, this
resoning sets a concerning president.
Changing zoning for a single property
allows or to allow for more intensive
use undermines the predictability and
stability that zoning is meant to
provide. If approved, it becomes
difficult to deny similar requests in
the future, gradually eroding the
residential character of the area.
Finally, uh we are not opposed, as has
been mentioned, to healthcare
infrastructure in our community.
Emergency services are essential,
especially to seniors, families with
young children like my family. Both
groups that are represented throughout
our community and the town home
community. Um, however, location
matters. Commercial corridors and areas
with existing infrastructure are better
suited for this type of facility without
imposing a disproportionate impact on
residential on our residential
neighborhood. For these reasons, I would
urge the board to deny this resoning
request. I'm ready to take your
questions now if you have any. So,
>> thank you.
>> No, I'm just kidding. I really
appreciate your time. Thank you. Sorry
for speeding through. Yeah. Um,
[snorts] anybody else?
Okay. Uh, I'll close the public hearing.
And couple points I just I think we
brought up. I just want to make sure we
clarify. Um, and maybe the first one
either either Stephen, you or her can
speak on. Um, the Granite Falls that
goes through that neighborhood is not
part of this project.
That's that's a town project, right?
So, I I think it was brought up by a
couple concerned people that if we
didn't approve this project, that's not
going to happen. But that's a town
project, right? That's not a it has
nothing to do with Wake Med pretty much.
Is that correct?
>> Correct.
>> Okay. Um, another another point was
brought up I think uh Tony brought up uh
has to do with um
has to do with the uses and I I don't
remember what the first didn't the first
condition address some of the uses that
we could be afraid of wait it didn't go
in or something.
>> I think the question is what other uses
that were not prohibited would be
allowed to go to the table of uses
>> to pull up that
>> but what was the first condition? I
don't recall. I thought the first
condition had something some something
>> prohibited principal uses. Examples such
as gas station, shopping center, and
vehicle minor services and major
service.
>> So those probably things that could go
in there if it's a highway commercial
type thing. Is that right?
>> These are the probably the worst offense
type uses that could go there if it
weren't for this condition.
>> Right.
>> But there are many other uses that still
could go in which is their concern. And
uh I think that was her question was um
>> can we eliminate those other uses
>> which they are which they are kind of
>> specifically is can we just hold it
strictly to hospital?
>> Yeah. And that's that's the question.
It's the question is can we
keep it hospital
and can
» the normal practice is to restrict the
other uses that you could otherwise
have. Um but there's no legal
prohibition upon just stating a single
use. Um it's just not the normal way
that uh conditions are drafted. You you
take all the uses one can make under the
ordinance and you narrow you take the
use you can make of a piece of land and
you constrain it but by increasing the
buffers or the screening. So you go from
broad to narrow. Um drafting it that way
would be one particular thing. Um not inappropriate but I suppose the
normal way to do it is you just list
>> all the things you don't want.
>> Yeah. um or or just the ones you do want
>> or just the ones you do want. Whereas if
something should happen and Wake Med
wants to sell the land, it's only for a
hospital uses. Somebody else would have
to come upon the board to
change the AC, you know, ask for a
change in the exception on the land,
right?
>> Totally within the judgment of the
applicant and uh the town. Uh the town
doesn't have the authority to
unilaterally impose conditions,
>> but uh I suspect that I'm not well I
don't know. Let Wake Med speak for
themselves. I I doubt they would have a
preference either way.
>> Okay, we'll come we'll come back to
that. Let them kind of You all heard
y'all heard the question. Uh, and then
the last one I think I heard, um,
had do with you, Matt. I think he was
called out specifically to come up here
and explain this intersection thing and,
you know,
>> road improvements,
>> huh,
>> and road improvements,
>> the degradation of certain
intersections.
>> Yes. The intersection in question was
the intersection of um, Burlington Mills
Road at Old Burlington Mills Road and
the Walberrook Flats access. Um the
statement made was was accurate. We are
showing increases in delay going from a
level of service E to a level of service
F. And as you all know that is a trigger
in the LDO for for improvement. So um
kind of the way the report continues um
is that we evaluated two potential
improvements. Uh the first was
installation of a traffic signal at at
that location. Uh we did not recommend
that due to the spacing between it and
the intersection at Main Street. Um this
simply too close. Um as you all know
traffic signals stop traffic. When you
stop traffic you have traffic then that
then cues back. Uh our concern was
stopping traffic and then having it
queue back out onto Main Street and
causing cascading delays and and you
know if if that gets bad enough that's
what results in gridlock. So we didn't
recommend uh installing traffic signal.
Uh the other thing we recommended um
because really what's seeing the high
delay is the left turns. Uh so we
evaluated restricting uh access for
those two side streets to right turns
out only. Right? So if we say the left
turns are really bad, let's restrict
access, say no left turns and let's
force everyone to take a right turn
because those move more freely. Uh what
happens there? uh as we saw through uh
evaluation is that we either end up
forcing U-turns where they probably
shouldn't be forced, right? So if you
can no longer turn left out of say
Walbrook Flats, uh you have to turn
right and then somehow get your way back
west on Burlington Mills Road, right?
So, if drivers were turning right out of
Wahberg Flats and they want to go west,
they'd then have to be making U-turns
down at Main Street. Uh, which that
intersection for larger vehicles simply
isn't really designed for it. Um, so we
didn't feel that that was uh a a good
recommendation to make um in that sense.
So, we eliminated that as well. Um, so
where we landed was just to say we'll do
nothing, which we understand shows high
delays for the left turns, but again,
what we're seeing is that it's only
tripped in the morning when school is in
session, right? That gets back to your
point, Commissioner Paul, about uh the middle school and the middle school
traffic. So, um it's really only a
condition in the morning. Um we don't
really see that those level of delays
for left turns uh in in the evening. Um,
and I would also like to say that uh so
Wal Wahber Flats only has one op one
option to come out. Uh, the neighborhood
uh actually has other options. They can
go up to Main Street uh and make a right
turn out onto Main Street if they wanted
to to go various places. So, the
neighborhood does have options to go
elsewhere if left turn delays are
substantial and they don't feel like
waiting to make a left turn.
Any
questions for Matt?
>> Matt, just
I don't I don't want to come off um
trying to tell you how to be engineer.
>> I know
>> good,
>> but I I think you're uh you're giving me
great engineer speak. I I Can you
simplify it for me in in this capacity
from this perspective? Excuse me.
I hear all the things that we cannot do,
but as an engineer, there is always a
way and to improve something. So, do you
see just there's a better way from a
traffic perspective that we can increase
or decrease the pain of that
intersection outside of what the numbers
and the data just in your gut, man. Tell
me what you think.
>> Well, well, in my professional opinion,
I didn't recommend doing anything there.
So, I I I see the best path as remaining
as is for that for that specific
intersection. Right.
>> Okay.
>> Um like I said, I I think if if the
neighbors concern is long left turn
delays, I think there's other options
and alternate routes that that they can
take.
>> Um the other recommendations, uh
installing a signal or restricting left
turns will cause second order effects
that I believe are worse than the
current condition.
Well, if I recall correctly, and I may
be wrong, is we're really uh constrained
to not allow an intersection to degrade
from an E to an F. And that's what we
have in at least one of them at one of
the peak periods. So, that goes against
our LDO. I believe the B TOD there's an
argument on that and I I appreciate some
of that is improved efficiency but when
you look at the time frames going from
93 seconds to 144 I think is one of them
that Miss Kenyon so uh eloquently stated
um that's a problem and we don't have a
solution. I mean, a solution is make
Burlington Mills a fourlane to the west
of the middle school. That's not a
viable option because no one wants to
pay for it. I get that. But that's
really what needs to happen.
>> Right.
>> And that we need to look at that because
we've got an untenable situation that
we're proposing with no solution.
>> Right. Right. And to your point,
Commissioner Paul, widening Burlington
Mills Road would alleviate a lot of that
delay. It
>> sure would. And I get it. That's not
your anyone here's problem, but it is
because that's creating the problem that
we're talking about.
>> Correct. I mean, what we're presenting
is the study are the impacts associated
with the development that's proposed,
not a greater plan to alleviate traffic
along Burlington Hills Road.
>> Yep.
>> I appreciate that, but it doesn't fix
the problem that we're talking about
right now.
So
>> which does get back to me just this
narrative of is there another way to
alleviate the traffic? I mean beyond
what you stated, I I just I'm looking
for ideas here to to really rattle in in
my head there's got to be another access
way. If there's not, there's not. But
you know, if if you're saying that do
nothing is the best result and then
we're going from a an an E to an F, that
just just seems like there's got to be
another way with this project. So what
would
ultimately you're saying that this is
it? This is the best of what you got. Is
that what I'm hearing?
[clears throat]
>> Um in in my professional opinion, having
done the evaluation uh with the
constraints that we that we have, um
yes, I I would I would say so. Um, but
are are there potentially other options
that would involve things that Wake Med
may not be able to commit to? That's
always possible.
>> I'd be interested in knowing what that
would look like just on the table. Um,
because it might be skin of the game
that it could help with the the the
neighbors themselves and for us as well.
No offense to the Wake Med team, but I
I'm just trying to think outside the box
in terms of eliminating where we can.
So, thank you. I I will be interested in
knowing what that will look like uh as
well.
» Any other questions for Matt?
>> Thank you, Matt.
>> Thank you.
>> I hearing you. Um so th those are the
things I heard. So maybe uh maybe I'll
call back the applicant. Uh you heard
the the deal with the the first
condition where eliminating some usages
but not everything. I don't think you
may not you may be more familiar with
that than I am.
>> Uh yeah, we did leave some uh uses u
untouched. U so for instance uh bank use
would still be permitted. I'm just I'm
reading this off so forgive me. um u
commercial parking,
um eating establishment,
u event center,
lodging is a special use,
um and a neighborhood size retail sales
and services. Um and then basically
office and medical uses that you would
expect. So, dental facility, uh, medical
facility, hospital, hospital is a
catchall within the within the LDO,
basically any sort of medical services.
It doesn't necessarily mean a big point
hospital um and professional office and
urgent care. So, those are the main ones that um are
still permitted uh under zoning
conditions. And we would submit that um
those are all fairly consistent with a
you know if you had you know again this
resoning only allows 40,000 square feet
of non-residential period. So there's
not a lot that can be done beyond what
we're proposing in terms of the ED.
We're we're sort of leaving some of the
other uses on the table so that if if
came back for more development with a
larger plan at some point in the future
that at that point some of those
additional uses could be on the table.
you know, if you had a larger
development, whether it was, you know,
Rollsville Hospital or medical office
building, you would probably want some
of some of that other sort of types of
uses um within that development.
>> What about another TIA? Would that be
required?
>> Uh yes, another TIA would be require
presumably be required if it's triggered
because again, we only have 40,000
square feet. So if you if you were
upzzoning to allow for more uh more
density and development then basically
your uh the LDO would likely be
triggered. Again, you guys would do the
analysis at that point, but this this
was triggered and and the TIA did look
at, again, not our plan, but uh staff
did ask that uh uh Matt and his team
over at Stantech to look at uh
development of up to 400,000 square feet
on the site. So, there's some
information about that.
>> Does your client have access or option
for the rest of the farm?
Uh, are you talking about the other 30
acres?
>> Yeah,
>> we do not. No.
» Mayor Kern,
>> just real real quick uh for Mr. Coleman,
the if the if Wake Med needs to come
back for a reasonzoning anyway given the
condition on the concept plan,
>> what is the point of keeping anything
other than hospital? I'm not I'm not
following the logic of that. If you
limit it to hospital, then you clear the
special use permit text amendment very
clearly because now it's permitted.
>> Yeah.
>> And even though we normally write in the
negative for restrictions, it would seem
to be clearer and cleaner for Wake Med
to just say
limited to hospital. Then it's permitted
and you're going to have to come back
for a reasonzoning anyway.
You're never going to be able to do the
other things unless wakeed flips this
and turns it into a hotel site that
looks exactly like an ER,
which would be a really cool [laughter]
>> I'll let you um
I think the short answer is is that is again that I think what we were
trying to think what we were trying to
do was
um both with this resoning say make it
clear that this is for one use and one
use only but not but also not make it a
reasonzoning where it was so limited
such that it was just you know in in
sort of was solid cystic in looking at
just that one use and so what the idea
was is that you know it's 30 acres at
some point it may be something
additional and so we wanted to start at
least building around in terms of the uh
the zoning entitlements as to what would
be what what could be permitted and what
cannot again it all has to come back to
the board. So, you know, if if if
something came back beyond the 40,000
square feet, you know, what I would say
in response to, you know, why don't you
just make it just a hospital use is,
>> you know, at that point, the same
conversation would be on the table. And,
you know, the question of,
>> all right, we're concerned about this
use or that use could be addressed with
more information and more specific
um knowledge about what might
additionally might be there.
Is that an argument for addressing the
concern and just limit it to hospital or
an argument against?
>> Argument against
it
>> sounds like he wants to to do you want
to just leave them on the table for any
possible future conversations that you
have. You know that okay I I can already
I already have a bank
>> in I believe you a bank was one of them.
Yes. um in the in the zoning so I can
now approach banks with certainty that
this will be allowed instead of having
to come back later and ask and it
possibly be a no when you already have a
bank waiting. I think the more idea was
is that that um that that this could be,
you know, if this ultimately were
developed for more than an ED and
ultimately these are there would need to
be more than just a single set of uses
as within the resoning. Again, whether
and this is any zoning district, right?
You don't have there's no zoning
district in the town of Rollsville or
really anywhere else in the triangle
where it's like you have one use and one
use only. it create it can create issues
and so I think what we were trying to do
was was be thoughtful about taking out
the negative impacts taking out things
that would undermine what we were what
we we envisioned for the site so we
didn't we were using the you know we
used a zoning uh designation that is an
imperfect fit but then we're trying to
take out a lot of the uses that didn't
make sense next to be bington and try to
leave in some of the uses that play well
with a medical office or or other things
if if and if such things ever came to
pass.
>> So to kind of go with the format that
attorney tells us we usually use. Did
you hear any not you want to take you
want to take the bank out? You want to
take any of those out because we can
request and take those out.
>> Uh do you don't want to you want to take them out? We can
>> we just like I need to review the list
again like the full
>> full permitted list today was the
applicant is proposing.
>> I I guess my you you you said in case
you want to do something else
but I I thought this is just going to be
ED and a health. So like what more else
could you do if you're not going to do
anything? this wig man is coming here
and we're just going to do a hospital
then I can't imagine it going beyond
other hospital health. Mhm.
>> So, I guess from I'm sorry, man. I'm I'm
too too logical sometimes. Please
forgive me. But if that's what it's
going to be, how come we can't just call
that out? You got to come back to tours
anyway.
>> Mhm.
>> So, just make it easier for everyone in
my opinion. It just doesn't it's not
>> it just it just seems like something
else is is kind of being talked about or
planned, you know, on the back end when
really what we're talking about here is
just an ED. So
>> why why would you not want to pull out
all of those other provisions
» except for say medical, you know,
physician offices, dentist offices, that makes sense. ER, but you know,
>> maybe an eating establishment. I I would
submit that. Well, you know, like
something within I mean, I don't know. I
haven't talked to staff about
cafeteria within a within the building.
That's
>> But a cafeteria that's that's
>> But wait a minute. Does it have to be on
that list in order for it to be part of
the building if you had like
>> No. Okay.
>> Those would all be accessory.
>> Oh,
» so I would point.
>> Are we discussing this amongst ourselves
yet?
>> Oh, let's see what they're going to
propose.
» Um,
we're happy to to discuss that. We may
need a few minutes to discuss if if uh
if the council is willing to give us
that time. We obviously don't want to
waste your time. We recognize it's 9:30
at night.
>> Well, and that's that's where because
this might save a few minutes here
>> on the [clears throat]
uh we got a lot lot to cover tonight.
So, um, so decision can be made by the
board if you want more information, if
they need to collaborate or something.
>> Well, I I personally do not feel
comfortable approving this tonight
without having the exact site plans,
seeing the ambulance bay moved and
knowing what conditions the um lay on
the west side of of the land, you know,
about pushing the the the um facility as
far away as possible. So to be honest,
you know, until I want to see those
things in concrete writing because just
as as um Dave mentioned earlier, if we
approve it now, well, that that's what
we're approving. So, I am not
comfortable
moving forward with the resoning tonight
until and and to their own um comments,
it would take about 30 maybe 60 days to
finalize,
you know, all of the soil tests and
seeing if they where they could feasibly
move the facility to. So, within that
amount of time, then that would give
time to review the other prohibited
uses. Other
comments? No,
>> I agree.
Um,
they have to request the continuation of
we just we can just use the motion. We
can just use the motion ourselves, can't
we?
>> The board can always continue.
>> Yeah. Um, anybody object to continuing?
Good.
>> On your benefit.
>> But you guys heard heard the
commissioners, you know, ask they ask
for some things.
>> Um
a better site plan on the location of
the building. I think
>> more information on um
>> putting the ambulance bay as far apart.
>> Yeah.
>> Um prohibited uses. And I think that
motion that that first that first uh
that first condition really look hard at
that. I think that was one of the things
that
>> I you know again I don't think we're
going to be in a position until we get
to site plan to be able to say exactly
where the building's going to move. I
think it's going to be an addition of a
sentence to condition number two which
has already been outlined by the town
attorney. Um and I think is ready for
prime. you know, you guys obviously make
the decision, but that's that's where we
are. We're not going to we're not going
to have the information, all the
information ready
um to to create an updated concept plan
in say two weeks or four weeks. Um and
we and it this is this is something
we're we're trying to get done as soon
as possible. So,
>> we understand that, but we are also
trying to protect the interests of the
people that do live in Bington. And if
it's going to take another 30 to 60 days
for you guys to determine that, I would
rather that happen before we gave a con
a conditional approval on this project,
that may have some more um
major issues involved if you can't get
it done the way that that we're looking
to see this project,
you know, be completed. So
I I in the grand scheme of things, 30 to
60 days does not seem
like a long time to be able to ensure
these neighbors here that we're doing
our best to try to make sure that this
is moved as far to the west and the
ambulance bay moved plus making sure
that we're not going to get any surprise
development going on in the back end of
this property that has not been
discussed with this project thus far.
So, there's three conditions there. And
I for one am not If you want me to vote
tonight, then you're not going to like
my my vote if that's what you're going
to push me to do.
I thought Dave, your language took care
of the issue of the hospital being moved
west and
>> north north and west.
>> Uh, Commissioner Se probably not. it it
allows them to move. Currently, the the
way the concept plan condition is
written, it commits an applicant when
they submit a concept plan to build
things the way they show you they're
going to build things. Yes. Otherwise,
it's just a story.
>> Uh and that certainly is something
that's happened in the history of zoning
law. You see pretty pictures. They're
not a commitment. So, if there's a
commitment to a concept plan, the
expectation is that they're committing
to that plan. And the language we use
allows minor adjustments to those
committed elements.
>> Got it.
>> When we think minor adjustments under
160D, we probably don't think about what
is being proposed as hopefully what Wake
Med can achieve.
>> So we want to open we want to provide
some flexibility
so that something that would help the
neighbors isn't something that the staff
is forced to say no, you can't do.
>> Yeah,
>> that would have been a terrible
situation. And that's all I was trying
to get to.
>> Okay.
» I mean, if if the issue, you know,
again, I'll be really frank with you. If
the issue is that that we need to
severely cut back the permitted uses and
I can have five minutes with my client,
I can probably come back with an answer
on that tonight. But, you know, again,
the I think our concern is is that um
asking for more and more and more detail
on a concept plan is is is frankly
getting into site planning issues that
we think can be addressed at site
planning and doesn't need to be
addressed at this point.
>> Well, you already heard what Dave said
and I don't agree with that. I want to
know exactly where this is going to land
>> before I give my approval on anything.
The other part of that, Commissioner
Bernett, is talking about flipping the
building and putting the ambulance uh
station on the west side where it's
currently on the east side and moving it
north and west. That is a site plan
issue that uh your current one doesn't
accommodate those modifications. So,
>> well, I I mean it that's that's what
we're hearing now. I I'll tell you
frankly, we've had conversations where
we were given different indications than
what we're hearing today. But but that
all that to be said, we're happy to add
the language that has been suggested by
the town attorney to to address that
very concern because we you know, we we
have been working towards trying to
address all these issues for for months.
And you know, while we can't give you
definitive answers now, we are committed
to addressing these very concerns.
um recognize that that is sort of an
unusual position to be in. Uh but it is
the position we are we are in. And
again, if if if
this board can look to look at us making
changes the changes recommended by the
town attorney and is willing to give us
a few minutes to discuss whether we can
further, you know, whether we can
address the uh board's concerns related
to um the uses. Um I think we could have
we have something free today as opposed
to having to wait four or six weeks
because again my my main concern is is
that we're going to get pushed out and
we're not going to have, you know, other
than maybe moving a box around, we're
not going to have a whole lot of
additional answers on specifics on
exactly where's the building going to
be, how is it going to be than what we
have today.
» So Dave, what do we need on the concept
plan?
>> Concept plan is not a requirement. There
doesn't have to be that condition at
all.
The concept plan is something that was
tendered by the applicant that commits
them to building what they showed you in
the picture.
However, what they've promised you is we
promise we won't we won't build you what
we've shown you in the picture. We're
going to build something different than
that that's better, but we don't know
exactly where.
>> Right. So I was trying to save the
condition to allow it to get as good as
it might be able to get if that's what
WakeD wanted to do in the future because
otherwise the staff which can only
follow the ordinance is forced to tell
the applicant no. You have to build in
the place that angers the neighbors the
most which then causes the elected
officials to be very unhappy with the
staff and the town attorney.
But the condition doesn't
>> doesn't force them to do what we're
talking about.
>> The the challenge is it is hard to write
an ordinance that says the applicant
shall move it to the west or to the
northwest as far as they practically can
after they find out how far that is.
Something something blah blah. It's hard
to I don't know what that is.
So, where are we at? Um, I think Jan is
asking for a continuation. I'm not sure
if the board wants to continue this or
not. Um, where we at? Um, what's the um
consensity of the board?
>> I think at this point that's the best
option.
Continuence.
>> Agree. All right. I would need a motion
for that. Uh, I motion to continue res
25-06 waked to a future town board
meeting.
Uh,
>> we ought to have a date.
>> Christie,
>> October 8th,
November 5th. I didn't know if September
1st would be too soon based on
discussion.
» I don't know. September 1st.
I mean I I would say October 8th and if
Wake Med is not ready to come forward
with the conditions that we've asked
then they can ask for um to move it to a
later date.
Um, how does that fit our schedule?
Eric,
>> October,
>> Christie,
>> I would say October 8th. And
>> how does that fit our schedule?
>> Um, October, November 5th.
>> They look good.
>> And you you wouldn't be ready by
September 1st, I thought, would you?
That's it in two weeks.
>> I'm asking
>> two weeks.
» We would obviously we would prefer
September 1st.
>> Okay.
>> Are you going to be able to have those
answers that I've I've asked? because
I'm being told 30 to 60 days before you
finish the soil compositions. If it
brings us right back to this same place,
then it it I I know for myself it won't
be a favorable vote. If you cannot
provide me with the information that I'm
asking for tonight and you want two more
weeks,
just don't bother unless you can answer
those questions that I proposed.
» Okay? If you want September 1st, great.
Make it happen. I suggest you get the
engineers out there and start digging in
the dirt to make sure that you get the
answers that are needed
>> because otherwise it's just going to be
wasting our time again if you don't have
those questions answered
>> and I would hope if they don't have them
they will ask for a further continuence
before
>> precise before the meeting comes about.
>> Yes. I mean again some of these some of
the some of the questions I want to I
want to make clear the exact location of
the building is not going to be
determined in any concept plan. It is
not I think I want to say it again. I've
said it before but I want to say it
again. We will try to address it as best
we can
uh likely mainly with the language
suggested by your attorney. Um, and we
may look
>> we were already told that it was going
to take 30 maybe up to 60 days to get
that finalized soil report with knowing
where the granite is and where it isn't.
So, what is it? Is it 30 to 60 days? Is
it is it is it 6 months? What is it?
>> Hold on. Hold on. Let's let's kind of
settle down a little bit. Um,
I think what Dave is saying is the site
plan has to be where there's minimum,
and he he's right. Over the years, it's
hard to describe what minimum
jurisdiction the planning department has
for a site plan adjustments. It doesn't
have to be exact, but I think what he's
saying is too far off today,
>> right? It's too far off today. So, it's
just a matter of flip. Somebody used the
term flip-flop. Just a matter of
flip-flopping everything.
>> That's for the ambulance bay.
>> Yeah. And you don't need you don't they
don't really need so bowling to do that.
No.
>> But I think what you maybe you two get
together and you describe what you know
min what you call it minimum minimum
adjustments or whatever.
>> It it is my understanding that the
applicant is telling us today that 150
foot minimum is the most they can safely
commit to and that's where the applicant
has told us they are.
I believe that we're also hearing two
different things based upon that was
something was mentioned by the architect
that implied that geotech would be back
in 30 to 60 days and that implied that
at the end of that time there would be
knowledge that would allow the 150 ft to
be increased.
>> Awesome.
>> That could be a significant change to
their conditions.
And I'm this is me guessing based upon
what I heard. None of this is going to
matter in terms of a condition that can
be written other than either increasing
the 150 to some other number because
there's now a greater safety margin on
the west or the northwest that could be
rewritten as a legally enforceable
minimum or uh enough time has passed
such that they've essentially written a
new sketch plan that provides them
functional knowledge as to where it's
practically going to be such that the
only movement is going be plus or minus
10 or 20 feet anywhere. That would be a
minor adjustment that gets approved by
staff or a field condition that's
approved by staff and that's allowed
under our LDO. Th those things don't
come back to the board when it's a
meaningless field adjustment. The road
isn't exactly like this. It's a little
bit like this, but honestly, if two
people were to look at it, they would
not be able to tell. That's a minor
adjustment. But we're also talking about
moving the ambulance bay from the east
side to the west side.
>> Sounds like it is unlikely, based upon
what we've heard, it is unlikely that knowledge will be in something that
the applicant would commit to in 60
days.
>> Is that accurate?
>> Is that true? the
>> I'll be honest, I'll be honest with you.
The what what your town attorney is
saying is completely different from the
guidance we received from staff as to
what what is what is flexible and what
is not. And so part of what we're going
to have to do is figure out what we are
comfortable providing you to ensure that
we're addressing your concerns, but also
not getting caught up in some confusion
within town hall about what's allowed
and what's not. And so I can give you
some answers, but frankly I don't have
all the answers because I what I thought
I knew when I walked in here is
different than what is being told to you
what I'm hearing right now.
>> I'm sorry that confusion has happened.
>> Yeah. So
>> So what you're saying is the plan
department and attorney is not on the
same page.
>> I that is that you know I I don't want
to say anything. All I'm saying is is
that we had a different understanding
coming in. I don't want to say anything
about who did what because, you know,
we're all human. Um but um we will
endeavor um to use our time wisely to
address to address the issues and
concerns. We hear you loud and clear.
We're not trying to hide the ball. We're
just trying to be responsible and and recognizing this is an iterative
process. The concept plan is not the
step the site plan. So what I'm trying
to do is make sure that and I think this
is frankly what what uh town attorney
Neil is trying to do is make sure that
the concept plan doesn't create a box
that this development can't get out of.
>> Y
>> and so I think being sensitive to that
and and I think the perfectly good I I
me saying what I said is not in any way
criticism of anybody on staff. is rather
it is a develop you know a developing
knowledge uh knowledge and understanding
and I think it'll allow us to all be
more comfortable that we've provided
what we can figure out how to provide
the commitments we can because I think
what we're ultimately talking about is how do we give you more of a sense of
what is the you know sort of do dash
dotted line where this building will be
and where where are the things that we
can address or give some some
information on that are of concern to
neighbors. Specifically, for instance,
the ambulance drop off zone. Can that be
on the west? Can we say can we either
with a condition or something else say
this will be on the western side of the
building? Again, some of that is
complicated by the fact that as as Tom
Cavender said, they don't even know
quite what the orientation of the
building is going to be, right? So
that's where that's why I was I wasn't
when I said there's some of the stuff
that we can't completely do whether it's
in 30 or 60 days. It's not because we
won't have the geotech information. It's
because you've got architects, geotech,
you know, you've got all these things
being layered on top of each other. And
so I think it's just us figuring trying
to be as thoughtful and smart in
collaboration with again your really
good staff.
How do we do that in a way that
addresses your concerns, addresses the
neighborhood's very valid concerns, and
ensures that we all have appropriate
flexibility so that what we think is the
right way to go in a concept plan when
we realize maybe we need to make tweaks
in the site plan, when I say we, I mean
the sort of editorial we everybody um we
have the flexibility to do that. And so
that's I think what I'm taking out of
this. Understand the desire to reduce
the uses. Understand the desire to
address the ambulance area and the the
building location. And we'll look for
the best ways to do that. And there's
some really smart people that are going
to have to tell me how to do that. So
>> okay. So are you still good with
September 1st?
>> September 1st is our preference. Yes.
>> Okay. So you know if you ask you need a
delay, you can ask the through the
planning department. You all know the
process. We won't we will certainly be
in in a lot of touch with your planning
department. So I don't think our
timeline will will continue to be
>> I think Chris Mr. Burn you started the
two did you start? So add add the date
>> to provide the certain date then we're
saying September 1st right
>> uh is there a second
>> second
>> got a motion second no discussion not
hearing. All in favor say I. Can I ask a point of clarification for with my
fellow commissioner
>> Bernett
>> between the two, moving the ambulance
bay to the west side or moving the
building north and west of its current
location? Is one more important than the
other?
» I understand. And I'm just try and I'm
>> both.
>> We're looking after you guys. So, we're
Okay, then we'll leave it that way.
>> Well, the geography is going to preclude
one or the other. If you put the bay on
the west side, by definition, the
building can no longer be as far to the
west.
>> Bottom line,
>> correct?
>> Yeah,
>> that's a good point.
>> Yeah,
» yes, good point.
>> Within reason, but yes.
>> So, uh any further discussion? Not not
hearing it. All in favor say I. Any
opposed? Sounds like eyes have it.
>> Thank you. Thank you, board. Thank you
guys. Appreciate y'all coming out. U
apologize for any confusion our staff
and attorney gave you. I mean, that's unfortunate. So, thank you for
coming out.
Um, next item we have is ANX26-1-825
a road annexation. I think Steve, you
want to kick that off? I'm going to do
this is a this is a continuation.
So, um
» Thank you. Appreciate that. Uh this is a
continuation. So, um kind of bring you
up to speed where we at with that. I did
close the public hearing.
>> No, sir. This a new one.
>> This is This is brand new, sir.
>> This is 825, right?
101 is where you would think about the
continuation.
>> The what?
>> 1101.
1101 11.
>> Okay.
>> All right. So, this is a new one then.
>> That's correct.
>> All right. So, this is ANX26-1-825
A Road Annexation. And Stephen, you
going to uh uh kind of give us a staff
report. And then after that, uh if there
any applicant want to give a report,
we'll hear that. Then I open up the
public hearing.
» So this is uh 825 A Road. It's the Hope
Baptist Church. Their petition to annex
into the town. This is an existing
church site. I believe they have a
desire to add on to their building and
make some adjustments, but they want
access to sewer, which is the primary
motivation for
um this annexation.
and we get the sewer from the
development from behind. Um, so this is
just an ordinary annexation petition.
Um, I got the pin number there. It's
roughly 10 acres. It's a place of
worship and again we want access to
public utilities which is the
motivation.
Um, this is voluntary annexation
petition uh accepted on April 28th 26th.
The board of commissioners um ordered
the clerk to investigate the sufficiency
at the June 16th, 2026 on the consent
agenda.
» The uh clerk found the the petition
sufficient on July 21st, 2026, and the
board of commissioners set a public
hearing for tonight.
So with any annexation, the board needs
to consider the the cost benefit of
annexation and um in this case there's
no re measurable measurable impact to
the town because public works, parks,
fire and police, code enforcement, it
really would have no impact on any of
those measurably.
Um if now if we had a utilities
department that that was our own, that
would be a consideration.
you know, would it impact our ability to
provide those services? But that's a
rale function.
So, um the proposed motion is to to
either approve or deny the voluntary
annexation petition by adopting the
ordinance in your packet.
If I'm thinking correctly and I'm going
northbound or southbound down A, it's
literally the church in between
uh KB and Powder. Elizabeth Springs is right there on the left hand side.
>> It's on the same side.
It's the same
size as Elizabeth Springs. Literally
right there in the Yeah. North. Yeah.
Okay.
>> Thank you.
Is there a presentation from the
applicant?
>> Paul, Stephen, it is okay.
» How you
>> Hey, good evening. John Fraser with FLM
Engineering. We're at 8951 Harvest Oaks
Drive, sweet 205 in Raleigh, 27615.
I'm uh civil engineer working with the
church. We've got some church
representatives as well. Uh but as
Stephen mentioned, this is a standard
annexation request. Uh the church does
have some um plans and and
considerations for improving their
campus, but before they can even begin
that, they need to know that they have
access to utilities because currently
they have septic system on site that
would present pre prevent any expansions
or anything like that. So, we've had
discussions with planning staff, city of
Raleigh staff. City of Raleigh's
reviewed some preliminary utility
connection plan. So, we we feel that we
have an approvable
um you know, plan to to make these
connections and and this is really just
a first step to know that we we can do
it and the church can then start to to
explore the possibilities for
improvements to their campus. Uh but
we're happy to answer any questions that you guys may have uh tonight.
Yeah. And I I think we've we've annexed
properties before because request for
water and sewer. Um I guess I guess for
the board uh Raleigh will not hook up
unless it's been annexed in some partner
city. So um only way they can get water
and sewer is for us to annex them.
>> That's correct. Um typically um
typically it means you know it's a tax based thing but the church is
nonprofit so um it simp we don't we
would do this not on the desire to
collect any taxes probably but um
>> in good faith
>> huh
>> it's in good faith
>> yes in good faith but um
>> if [clears throat] there's no downside
to it then
>> yeah yeah only you know I don't I think
there's only
>> Mr. Mayor. I'd like to make a move then
please. I move to approve voluntary
annexation petition annex 26-002 by
adopting ordinance 2026-001.
>> I think I got to open the public hearing
first.
>> So can you hold that commissioner if you
would?
>> Uh utilities are approximate to the
property, right?
>> Anything else you want to add? Um
>> I'll answer Mr. Mr. Paul's question. So
um there there's a small sewer extension
that will be required from the preserve
and agreement is already in place for
that sewer easement but water is in a
road. So just some minor extension
>> it is okay. Thank you.
>> So you have access to it.
>> Right. Right.
>> I would think that probably anything
else you want to add uh presentation
wise?
>> No but again I'm happy to answer any
other questions you may have.
>> Okay. Well just stay right there for a
minute. I'm open to public hearing.
Anybody here in favor? Maybe check the
sheet for me, Christie. No one.
[laughter]
Okay. U last chance. Anybody want to
speak? Okay. I'll close the public
hearing now.
If it's any questions for staff or um or
John, um this is time. If not, I will
entertain a motion.
>> Commissioner Long.
>> Mr. Mayor, I'd like to make a motion,
please. I move to approve voluntary
annexation petition A&X26-002
by adopting ordinance 2026-XX
» 001 number
>> 001
>> 00001 Okay so I have a motion on table
is there a second
>> second
>> I think commissioner Paul got
>> uh got a motion second any further
discussion
>> no sir
>> not hearing any all in favor Say I.
>> Any oppose?
>> I sound like the eyes have it. So, thank
you. Good to see you, bud. I haven't
seen you.
>> Welcome back to Rollsville.
>> Thank you.
>> Congratulations.
>> Um, very good.
Thank you, commissioners. Um, next item
is TA. Anybody want to take a break or
we want to roll through this?
>> Let's get through this.
uh TA26-6
and res-26-00004
downtown lake. So, um
it's it's it's up to you.
>> Thank you, mayor. Um this overlay
district is a long time coming. It's
been talked about. Um, it primarily
deals with building orientation,
parking, buffer, setbacks, and that sort
of thing. Um, which I'll get into more.
Um, we've broken it into the areas in
light blue, and then there's sort of a
purple color, which is a core area.
There's one distinction between the two
areas.
Um the areas highlighted in red
on both ends of of of that area are
different than what's in your packet.
After the packet went out, this map was
shared with the downtown development
um RDDA and uh it was suggested that the
overlay extend to all four corners of
those intersections.
Um which so this map reflects what we
would like the board to adopt for the
reasonzoning.
Um, the core area is the walkable the
most walkable core area and essentially
that's there's a restriction on
drive-thrus
in that area. So, I'll get I'll get to
the next. Um, the chapter
discusses four different areas. There's
the introductory provisions, which was
my first slide. There are permitted and
special uses in the downtown overlay.
There are prohibited uses. And then
there's design standards. And I'll get
into the design standards in a second.
Um, I want to point out though that we
do still have this uh downzoning
provision in the legislature which
restricts us from downzoning any
property. And so there is a clause in
this ordinance that should any of these
provisions
um presenting down zoning, they don't
apply. So in some cases, this will be
aspirational.
If a land owner, you know, they want to
comply, they will. If they get really
pushy, they may say the downzoning
provision protects me. So, for instance,
we have in the pedestrian area, this
walkable core, we want to bring the the
development signs down from 12 feet down
to six feet, which is a more pedestrian
scale. But in the end, if they really
want that 12 foot sign, there's probably
nothing we can do, at least until the
down zoning provision gets um eliminated
in legislation
in the design standards. Um building
orientation. So really the buildings
would have to orient the streets. Um
parking would be located the side of the
rear buildings. We we'd be eliminating
perimeter buffers since this is all
walkable commercial area. So we don't
need to buffer it from itself. It's
meant to all be complimentary.
Um street buffers are are eliminated
because the buildings are going to be
brought up to the street. Um
it'll be a 5 to 20 foot setback
and only where where a building steps
back further they will have to maintain
the street edge.
Okay. Um, drive-throughs again are not
allowed in the walkable clear area. That
was the purple area. Otherwise, located
to the side or rear of buildings. Um,
vegetation preservation is a U part of
the code which really wouldn't make
sense in the downtown core, so it's not
required. And then mailboxes for
requiring them to be located internally
or clustered along Main Street.
Um, there are, if you look in your
packet, there was minor edits to the
other overlay section, other parts of
the overlay, and that's really just
textual fixes, clarity, typos.
Um, and with that, I've got two proposed
motions. One is to approve or deny the
overlay ordinance,
finding it consistent or inconsistent
with the plan, and please give examples.
for uh a motion to approve or deny the
um the the map, the corresponding map.
» Question. Can I ask my question?
» Okay. So, um in the overlay district I
it the permitted special uses
had included lodge and private club. Is
that because of Granite Falls? Is
Granite Falls in that area? And it had
also had bars and nightclubs, which I
understand there's the tavern and
greenway. So that's why that's still on
there. So, but the lodge and private
clubs, what is that? Is that Oh, that new building, um, Pinelow, that's
private. Is that considered a private
club?
>> Not sure that's considered private club.
» What was it? said
>> it was the Elks Club, the Moose Club,
>> the the Masons.
>> Oh, that's the one that's behind the
>> Jeffrey Clubs.
>> That's not in there. That's not in there.
>> But would Granite Falls under that? That
was a good point.
>> Is Granite Falls in that area? Like a
private club because you have to pay
membership.
>> He said it's it's not in there.
>> I don't think it's in that. I don't
think it's in that overlay.
>> Oh, it's not.
>> Okay.
>> This is pretty much
>> That's pretty much Main Street. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So then lodge and private club can
come out then.
Um, if you would like them to come out.
>> Are you seeking to prevent
>> So, what's a I know a private
>> along Main Street,
>> a lodge and a private club. A lodge such
as what kind what kind of lodge? Like a
>> hotel, boutique.
>> No, these the the description is going
to be of uh dinner club, supper club,
membership club, moose lodge, uh elks
club, rotary that has
>> cigar club.
>> Yeah. cigar club, these sort of things.
>> Got it. Okay.
>> Yeah.
[laughter]
>> Keep going. Keep going.
>> I think Main Street Tavern is a private
club, isn't it?
>> It is.
>> Is it?
>> Oh, yeah. What is it? A dollar?
>> It's a dollar.
>> It used to be and North Carolina just
recently got rid of the private club
law. So
>> but but prior to then it was a dollar
>> but still
>> but then at the end of the day
» go ahead.
>> Yeah. So it's just looking for a motion
for both the text amendment and the
reasoning.
» So any additional work has to be done on
this or
>> it's all kind of done and this clause
about I know um just down thrown in kind
of
held this up for a long long time. So
this clause fixed all that. Then
>> you know where somebody have a issue
with you, they just challenge it.
>> We would just back down. We say that the
clause, you're right. The clause is
there. You can build your 12oot sign.
So you know, we're hopeful that that down zoning will go away at some
point.
Clause is protecting us.
>> I just have one more question. So if
there is in the overlay district. There
is a building that is industrial
that
they will still if it's sold, somebody
new bought it.
It's still zoned industrial even though
it's in the overlay district.
>> That clause fixes them. That's what the
clause is for.
>> So it's now they're now required to do
this
>> only if they expand. It's only new
development really.
>> Oh, wait. because everyone else is legal
non-conforming.
>> Legal non-conforming. So, if you're
going to expand, your expansion would
have to meet these standards unless you
challenge it because of the down zoning
clause. Um,
so
>> so as long as the building stays the
same and everything, nothing else if
they don't build out any or change it in
>> persists legal for me.
>> Okay, got it.
>> Good clarity.
After you got this, no one who can do
something today will not be able to do
it tomorrow. Everyone who can do
something today will still be able to do
it tomorrow. No one can lose their
ladies rights based upon the action you
take.
>> Okay.
» So they could do whatever they wanted to
in the industrial zoning.
>> Correct.
>> Even though it's
>> this. So it's not fixed.
>> It's just an overlay.
>> North Carolina doesn't allow it. So
right if it's industrial it could be a
vacant industrial site the day after you
adopt this
if they were willing to move forward
with the zoning that we currently have
industrial zone they would not have to
come before you and they would not be
subject to any
>> but if they wanted to change the zoning
this is the only thing they could change
it to
>> if if they wanted to come in for a
reasonzoning on their own then
essentially they're they're deciding
they'd like to be part of a brave new
Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Gotcha.
>> Yeah. Anything coming in the future has
got to
>> if they want to do something, they have
to do it this way
>> unless they unless they're protected by
>> already.
>> Yeah.
>> Unless they already have it.
>> No one is losing. No one loses. If
someone were to walk up to you, let's
say this tomorrow and say, you know,
government regulates me to death. I
can't believe you're taking away my
rights. That
Everybody is completely grandfathered in
unless they consent to be reserved.
>> Okay, got it. I understand.
>> I do think this is important because
I've I've had a a potential developer
say, "Well, we want to do what the town
wants." So, you're going to find some
voluntary compliance.
>> Absolutely.
>> As you go through,
>> you I'm sure you hear that. I wish I
wish the town would just tell me what
the town wants.
» Ready for a motion, sir?
>> Yeah, I'm ready for a motion.
>> Move to approve TA-26-006
downtown overlay district because it is
consistent with the comprehensive plan.
>> Is there any
provide an example?
>> Anybody want to second that?
>> Second.
Uh I think uh I think the attorney I
mean not attorney but uh the planning
director gave some examples how
consistent with what
>> he actually said it was consistent
didn't he?
>> He stated that. So um
>> using the examples
>> yeah use his
>> really [snorts]
best example that bringing the downtown.
» Yeah.
>> So I got a motion second. Any
discussion? No.
>> All in favor say I.
>> Any oppose?
>> I sounds like they have it. They do have
it. Uh then
>> uh the map. Who did the motion?
>> I did.
Move to approve reszoning 26-004
official zoning map update for the
downtown Overlay district because it is
consistent with the comprehensive plan.
>> Second.
>> Got a motion. Second. Any discussion?
Not hearing. All in favor say I. I.
>> Any oppose?
>> Sounds like eyes have it. Eyes do have
it. Motion's approved. Thank you.
Appreciate that.
>> Okay, moving along. Communications with
uh town town manager Eric. Anything you
want to um communicate?
Thank you. Thank you,
Stephen. Thank you.
Appreciate. Go ahead, Eric.
>> Um, nope. don't have any updates. They
were covered in the seniors update and
also in the public safety update as far
as national night out and also the
seniors expo is coming up.
>> All right. Thanks. Any update? Dave
Neil, town attorney.
>> The only item is something in which
» Thank you, Mr. Manager. Uh the only
thing that I have is the proposed close
session for a personnel matter if that's
uh the board's pleasure and the form of
motion is in your inbox.
Any other thing any questions for
attorney or Eric? Anything from clerk?
Any any comment? Um
she's working on 911 contest. So um
that's uh that's going to be here pretty
soon. So
>> that's right.
September 1st.
>> Yeah, that'd be at the meeting.
>> That'd be at the meeting September 1st.
Um, we will go back to our new schedule
or our
normal schedule in September.
Um, so with that, I will entertain a
motion for executive session.
>> Mr. Mayor, I have a motion, proposed
form of motion for closed section. I
move that the board go into close
session to preserve the attorney client
privilege pursuant to chapter 143
section 318.11a6
of the Northcon general statutes to
discuss a personnel matter
I have a motion to second. Is there any
discussion?
>> Second.
>> Got a motion second. Any discussion? All
in favor say I.
>> Any oppose? Eyes have it. And we will
adjourn into close. not ajourned for
recess and close session. Thank you.
Okay, we have come out of executive
session. Um, it's pretty late tonight.
We spent uh a pretty good while in
meetings tonight. We had a couple public
hearings to do and a couple of business
items to take care of. Uh this is the
last big long meeting we'll have board.
So I hope you appreciate us meeting uh
just one time a month during the
summertime. It as you can see by the
clock sometimes it's going to take a
while to do it but we will be back on
this on the regular schedule in
September. Um and hopefully we'll get
out of here much earlier. But just want
to appreciate all the work the board put
in today. Uh we got a lot of things
accomplished. We still got a lot more
things accomplished especially making
decision around the hospital. Um we want
to get it right but at the same time we
want to support a hospital need a
hospital in Missouri in my opinion and
uh we need to figure out how to do that
make it make it the right thing to do.
So with that any comments from from
staff or whatever any comments from
board? Appreciate it. Just want to
remind everybody tomorrow we have this
senior citizens uh uh expo. So uh make
sure you come out for that. We'll meet
again before 911, but the big 911 events
coming up too. So thank you. Appreciate
board. Thanks a lot. We are ajourned.