1
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to
vary to

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u provide uh a series of tents in order
to regulate height in a kind of rational

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and consistent way. Um we used uh we
studied various models that are used uh

4
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by neighboring jurisdictions and are
common and are common you know

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throughout you know the United States.
Um and there's two basic uh methods. One

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is known as a kind of parallel plane
where we're basically taking the

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topography and and taking that plane
that's undulating with the land and then

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moving it up the height limit. And then
the other method that's very common so

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so that is the method that's used by the
city of Westlake Hills. Then another

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method that's fairly common that's used
by the city of Austin is is sort of a

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series of segmented uh planes where
you're going along the property line and

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uh and assigning a certain uh depth in
in the city of Austin it's a 40 foot

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increment and then you're getting high
points or low points and then from those

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you're you're generating your height
envelopes.

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Um, so what we did is we we studied um
several lots uh in in Rollingwood that

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have different characteristics in terms
of shape and topography in terms of

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whether they slope from the street back
or back to the street or side to side.

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And uh we've included sort of a a house
sort of a standard home so you can sort

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of see the implications of these
different tents on on a on a on a

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residence. So the first one uh that
we'll talk about is is the kind of the

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one that that the zoning and planning
commission have have recommended which

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is the parallel plane model. And like I
said that's the one sort of used in city

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of Westlake Hills. It's right here. The
the difference between what what is

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being proposed for Rollingwood and
Westlake Hills is is because side

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setbacks in Rollingwood are are smaller
uh in order to avoid significant

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encroachment on neighbors. There's a
kind of tapering effect on the on the

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sides. So it's a little bit it takes
some aspects of the the the segmented

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planes and puts them on the parallel
planes. And so that's why you see this

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kind of I guess what you might call a
little bit of a zigurat on both both

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sides where uh it the parallel plane is
being stepped one foot for every foot

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that you come into the lot. Can I ask
you a question? Absolutely. Sorry. No.

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No. But you mentioned that West Lake has
bigger side yard setbacks, right?

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Remember what? 25 feet. 25 or 10 or 15,
right? My my memory is that you're 15,

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right? And 15 on the side or 10. We're
25 total. 25 minimum of 10 on on any

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side, right? 10. Yeah. So, he's got a
Right. And so, that's my understanding.

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And I do apologize. It's been a while
since I to house in my understanding is

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your rear setback is 25 ft. So it's 20t
20 ft. So it's more in Westlake side

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setbacks are more like your rear
setbacks. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Sorry.

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00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:30,560
Is there a way possibly to uh zoom?
Absolutely. Yes.

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So and and I can go around it too so
that you can see sort of um how and as

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you can see the as the topography
uh undulates and in this case is going

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down from the street the the height
plane is doing the same. And then you

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can see how this what I call this kind
of like ziggurat or or this

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stepping would prohibit someone for bu
from building a home and having a very

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large uh you know facade very close to
their neighbor, their side neighbor. Of

46
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:12,080
course, they can if they want that
height house, they can just bring it in

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00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:19,079
to at the point to where they're their
the stepping uh align with the the par

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the full height of the parallel
plane. So that's the um that's the you

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00:04:22,479 --> 00:04:29,600
know that that seems to be the the the
sort of the leading contender based on

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what zoning and planning. This is uh the
the very basic version of the segmented

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planes
um where you're going back a a certain

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00:04:37,759 --> 00:04:46,880
distance for every segment. Um often
it's 40 ft. Um and then and then you

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pick either low points or high points.
So as you go back in the segments, you

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essentially get four corners and you can
either decide to use the low point of

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those four corners or the high point and
then extrude up to create these these

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these very clear tents and and actually
the these are

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more this is where we get the term tent
because obviously it looks like a tent.

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Um now no jurisdiction typically allows
just a tent. they typically then will

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have the tent plus a sort of like an
auxiliary height limit, sort of a cap.

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Um, and that's what you're seeing in
these other ones. And so the the common

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00:05:23,919 --> 00:05:31,520
one like the one that we have in the
city of Austin, um, is there's just an

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overall height limit and it and it's
just flat. And that's what you're seeing

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here. Um, this this gold one, which is
probably just too complicated and

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pointless, is combining the parallel
plane as the sort of truncating plane

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for those segments. And there's really
very little value in that because it

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pretty much mimics what you would get
with a parallel plane and just

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introduces unnecessary complexity. But
these other ones are, you know, sort of

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like a method that is used in in in
cities. Um, it must be said that it's

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more typical and probably more
appropriate for um sort of core urban

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areas like you see in Austin where you
have narrower lots

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um and and you the chances of having
significant cross slope is very minimal

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because you know you over a 50 foot lot
chances are you're not going to have a

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lot of cross slope over 50 feet. um it's
not a very it's generally not sort of a

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great solution
for more suburban areas like this where

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you can have wider lots and you can have
significant cross slope and we'll see

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00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:45,520
that in some of the other examples uh um
that that have those kinds of lots. So

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00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:50,800
I'm going to go to the next property.
This one um is

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sloping significant. It has a
significantly more slope um and it is

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sloping um you know towards the street.
Now we didn't we didn't redesign the

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house. So it's kind of confusing because
like that the house looks like it's the

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00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:11,840
backyard is facing the street but that's
my understanding that's not the case. Uh

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but but you see how then the the that
the ramifications of the of the

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00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:24,720
different approaches on this lot.
Um and then there's there's another

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property that um is what you would
consider just basically much more of a

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flat lot. Um and again um obviously
these are the easier ones where there's

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less less difference between the
approaches. they tend to end up kind of

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netting the same. Um, and then you get a
lot like this, which you know gives you

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is is a very wide lot and so you get
significant distortions and complexities

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00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:59,440
with the other sort of tenting
approaches

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00:07:55,919 --> 00:08:04,560
um that they get kind of a little, you
know, a little unwieldy. Um it would be

91
00:08:03,039 --> 00:08:08,319
unfortunately we didn't have that lot
but if you had a lot with a lot of cross

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slope that had this kind of width it
would be even sort of more complicated

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because then you would not you wouldn't
want to assign the segmenting parallel

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to the street. You'd want to
perpendicular to the street. you'd want

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to assign it parallel to the street. And
and that gets into sort of a level of

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complexity that may be hard to to um you
know adjudicate in terms of how you

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00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,000
write write the the ordinance and how
it's

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00:08:31,399 --> 00:08:40,240
interpreted.
Um and that's that's basically it as far

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as what we've done. I'm happy to go back
to any of these and show uh zoom in and

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show more clarity on it. Um, I don't
know if there's any if I need to answer

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00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:54,800
any questions.
Yeah, maybe could you just like go back

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and set sort of the context like what
are these houses? What are the lots

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like? Um, yeah. So, these are all it's
all the same house. It's all the same

104
00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:11,600
sort of house design uh if you will. So,
how did you come up with that design?

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00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:16,560
Like that one of the I can help. Yeah,
that would be great. Thank you. Um,

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00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:22,959
I'm just curious like what is the square
footage on that house like? Oh, what

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00:09:19,839 --> 00:09:29,959
what we have here Dave Bench one
Randolph. Uh, what we have here are five

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properties that were essentially um um
volunteered by either people on PNG or

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other interested people. And
um we used there if you'll recall last

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00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:48,399
time that there was a presentation there
was some concern that yeah we were

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showing these boxes as they were
portrayed as parallel plane or by

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segmenting that were empty and there was
concern that it didn't really provide a

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a practical picture of what's going on
and wouldn't it be cool if we could put

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a a house in there and so Tony Stein who
has one of these properties said that we

115
00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:14,560
could use a plan that had been devised
for his property. He didn't doesn't

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00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:19,600
expect to execute it, but he had hired
an architect to develop a plan and then

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00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:23,360
we could use that and show it inside of
his property and whether or not it would

118
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:28,640
work within the parallel plane. And then
we would use that same

119
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:32,800
um plan, house plan, and just project it
on the other properties too, just for

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00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:36,880
the sake of scale and so you could see.
Does that help? Yeah, that totally

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00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:40,560
helps. So maybe it'd be like cool to see
the presentation from that perspective

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00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:45,440
because I forgot about that but now I
totally remember us doing that in the

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last meeting. So yeah I think that the
concept would be like in my view is like

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00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:55,120
hey this is what we could he could have
built two years ago or today maybe even

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00:10:52,240 --> 00:11:00,640
like this is the plan. How does this the
these different like proposals or

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00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:06,160
possibilities affect what would do that
house? So can maybe like kind of wish

127
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:10,079
And one thing that would help me is if
you zoom in on one and then drop the

128
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:14,160
perspective closer to ground level. Can
you see the house under the plane? Sure.

129
00:11:12,079 --> 00:11:19,200
And then hold it still because I'm
conscious.

130
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:23,720
And I think if you could zoom as much as
possible that would help too.

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00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:31,519
But do we have like a We don't have like
a a like this is what it Well, I guess

132
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:36,800
that is the house. You can It is. Okay.
And it's a house that was So that's what

133
00:11:33,279 --> 00:11:42,240
it would look like without any cropping
or any like any modifications. Is there

134
00:11:40,079 --> 00:11:47,360
I guess is there one? Yeah. So so I can
show you some slight areas where there's

135
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:52,560
encroachment that you can see. So um and
it's actually easier to see on the gold.

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00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:55,120
So um let me go to the gold one. Gold
one just

137
00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:03,200
clearly. So you can see here there's a
little bit of encroachment.

138
00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:07,120
Um,
but this is like the what you're showing

139
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:12,079
here is like the parallel plane, right?
Okay. The first two up the top. Yeah.

140
00:12:09,519 --> 00:12:16,160
Okay. So, it's very slight, but there
are areas, you know, obviously it, you

141
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:20,320
know, if you were designing it with
this, you would have to nip and tuck a

142
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:23,680
bit and adjust the design slightly, but
it wouldn't affect the overall house. I

143
00:12:22,079 --> 00:12:28,959
I believe it was said that this was a
6,500 foot house, not something that So,

144
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:34,880
so, you know, it's a nice sizable home.
Obviously, there's much more volume that

145
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:42,000
could be built out under the the um the
the tent. Okay.

146
00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:47,839
Can you do a 360 on just one? Yeah. So,
here I'm going 360 and uh and you can

147
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:52,440
see that Eve slightly is projecting
through. You see, is that Do you all see

148
00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:59,360
this area here? Let me zoom
in there. There's your incred.

149
00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:02,560
Yeah.
There you go. Thanks. You're right.

150
00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:07,120
There you go. You see how that sophet is
projecting through?

151
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:12,160
Um, and you know, there are eve
exemptions in some jurisdictions.

152
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:16,560
Um, you know, a lot of these things are
just not really needed on wider lots.

153
00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:21,279
The architect will just adjust
accordingly. Um,

154
00:13:18,959 --> 00:13:26,800
if I may interrupt what I understood on
this plan, on that

155
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:30,680
model, that house would work if you just
move it over a foot.

156
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,200
You You could make it work on that one.
Yeah, you can. Yeah, very good point.

157
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,600
You can clear, In fact, you can clearly
see here. You move this house over a

158
00:13:36,399 --> 00:13:42,000
foot, there's plenty of room on this
side. Take advantage of the the

159
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:45,720
situation you all have in Rollingwood
where you can

160
00:13:46,460 --> 00:13:54,639
[Music]
Then from the can you show the other the

161
00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:58,560
other the segmented one? Yes. And let me
go to the the one that would actually be

162
00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:07,160
used like a segmented with truncation
not using ones that so

163
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:15,760
um this is this is using low
points. So these are segments but with

164
00:14:10,079 --> 00:14:20,000
truncating for the low points. Okay. Um
why would

165
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:27,440
someone pick the low point sometimes?
Well, a low point will obviously make

166
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:33,120
houses less uh large. Um so
well yeah I think he was saying oh yeah

167
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:37,920
so in Austin
the low point would be more in tune with

168
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:42,639
the way you know West Lakes Westlake
Hills attitude is like let's keep houses

169
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:46,800
low under the tree line. In Austin, it
was more about, you know, letting people

170
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,800
build a little

171
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:58,279
taller, but you can see this one has,
you know, no violations. It's it's

172
00:14:57,279 --> 00:15:01,600
totally
fine. And

173
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:09,760
uh and then here with the high points,
obviously, it's well above, but you

174
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:14,240
know, um it doesn't take much. You can
see you could build a pretty monstrous

175
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:18,880
house with the using the high points and
the the segmented tents. That's what

176
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:26,240
that is. That's the high point, right?
Because you can see how you have a lot

177
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:29,600
of a lot of volume above the house. Um
it's almost like you would almost add

178
00:15:27,839 --> 00:15:34,760
another floor to this house. So you're
getting it to something that looks

179
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:39,639
almost more multifamily than top.
Yeah. Top deck. And that's

180
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:49,839
um and yeah and that's that that's
there's not a lot of difference then

181
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:55,360
after that because these were just
different ways of of one thing that we

182
00:15:52,720 --> 00:16:00,040
did study but it's totally minor but I
think it's it's it if you need if you're

183
00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:05,360
thinking in terms of the segmented
planes is establishing the height of the

184
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:10,240
segment from the property line versus
the setback back. And typically, you

185
00:16:08,079 --> 00:16:13,839
would want to do it you you'd want to
achieve the same height, but you'd want

186
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:19,360
to start on the property line because
you're going to get less distortion of

187
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:24,959
grade based on existing conditions. Say
someone has has built retaining walls in

188
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:29,360
the setback. The house is demoed. It
will create an artificial tent, but

189
00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:33,920
going to the proper line is is is
usually better. So there's there's a

190
00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:39,759
study here that reflects that, but it's
really only relevant if you're seriously

191
00:16:36,839 --> 00:16:46,160
considering the uh segments. And it
sounds like what I'm hearing you say is

192
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:50,000
segmented is unnecessarily complicated
and not as so appropriate for big lots.

193
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:53,199
It's better for these small lots like
instant.

194
00:16:51,519 --> 00:17:00,639
That's how we see it in in in you know
the neighboring jurisdictions. Um and

195
00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:04,799
and that that's you know the the problem
that you need to think about with the

196
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:09,600
segments also especially when you have
you're trying to protect trees and you

197
00:17:07,199 --> 00:17:14,720
want people to do good design is that
the segments force the architect or the

198
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:19,679
designer to push the volume of the house
into the

199
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:24,079
segment and which you know is less than
ideal like I think as a as a codew

200
00:17:21,919 --> 00:17:27,960
writing organization land codew writing
organization

201
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:32,080
You want to, you know, the trees aren't
moving and you want people to build

202
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:37,039
beautiful homes as beautiful as they can
build. And so creating that kind of

203
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:42,559
artificial constraint on where those
segments are is a little bit of a

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problem. It it was it was desired in
Austin at the time that it was uh chosen

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00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:55,440
because the goal was to have people
break up the volumes of homes because

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00:17:52,640 --> 00:18:00,080
they're so tightly piped together. So
they wanted in fact it were one of the

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00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:05,760
things that happened in Austin there was
uh side setback uh articulation. They

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00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:10,960
didn't want people building, you know,
flat walls on these very narrow lots.

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And so the sidewall articulation worked
with the segmented tents in order to

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encourage people to build houses that
were more discrete volumes. Um, and we

211
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:28,640
considered sidewall articulation in in
committees, but it just seemed like too

212
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:32,720
micromanaging people's home design for
rolling, right? And and you have large

213
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:38,600
enough setbacks that it's kind of not
really. It's not so so relevant. Yeah.

214
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:54,240
Can you show me the two like the height
like the gap? You know how you show that

215
00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:59,760
one? Yeah. Space there was between. Can
you show me like on the on the the

216
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:05,200
parallel plane one to the low point one?
I guess just so I see the difference.

217
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,200
Yeah. So,

218
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:13,919
uh, here it is. And you can
see, I'm sorry because the stuff is in

219
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:19,039
the background, so it's a little hard,
but you can see you have a pretty good

220
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:24,320
amount of space still. So, this this
could be a, you know, this this roof

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00:19:20,799 --> 00:19:30,520
pitch could be taller
and it would still fit nicely um in

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00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,520
there.

223
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:39,679
Um, yeah, this one might be easier to
see because I can

224
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:45,799
What was the difference between the gold
and gold? Well, the gold is really just

225
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:45,799
a

226
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:52,160
uh it's kind of causing confusion. First
of all, this is just a replication. We

227
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:56,160
should have just deleted this one. This
is the gold where this is the goal that

228
00:19:54,320 --> 00:20:02,720
matters is where combining the parallel
plane with the with the segments. I this

229
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:06,640
one you're you're combining the parallel
plane with the parallel plane. So you're

230
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:10,880
just getting parallel plane.
So I I I should we should have those two

231
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:15,280
are the same. These two are the same.
And these two are they describe a real

232
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:31,440
difference and I can take you to another
property. Maybe that might be nice. Just

233
00:20:29,679 --> 00:20:36,880
like a different lot. Yeah, there you
go. There's a different lot. Here you

234
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:41,520
go. The parallel plane, you know, and
and this is where you can see the

235
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:48,000
advantages, so to speak, that the
parallel plane will force this, you

236
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:53,440
know, they can't as their lot drops off,
they can't just build a really tall

237
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:57,840
element here. Um, but they can build a
little bit taller on this side where you

238
00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:03,919
know they have better topog, you know,
higher topography. So, how did you make

239
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:08,799
that house do that? Just like lower one
or how did you Yeah, we just that that's

240
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:11,760
we were just we just basically used our
best judgment. If you put this house on

241
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:15,520
this lot, what would your typical
architect builder do? And they would

242
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:20,400
typically just build these kind of tall
foundation walls. Gotcha. Yeah. you

243
00:21:17,919 --> 00:21:25,520
know, they wouldn't obviously and that's
something that is important to note like

244
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:30,799
you know someone who wants a little bit
a certain kind of massing they can lower

245
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:35,440
grade build retaining walls close to the
house in an artful way and and still get

246
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:38,799
a little extra height. that there's
still plenty of there are tools in the

247
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:42,960
tool belt for the architect and and
builder

248
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:50,760
designer to still be able to achieve
visual results and and work with the

249
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,760
with the with the tenting.

250
00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:58,320
So, and then let me go to another

251
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:12,400
lot. Obviously with this was a ladder
lot very it makes it fairly easy to be

252
00:22:10,159 --> 00:22:12,400
in

253
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:20,000
the under the plane. Oh, so wait the
first one was like this is the flat

254
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:24,400
line. Well, it's a little flatter. Yeah,
the the first one has more slope. Yeah,

255
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:28,799
it's it's I wouldn't call it slopey, but
it's the second one's the real slopey

256
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:32,880
lot. Yeah, this one's pretty darn flat.
Going to be hard to hard to find a

257
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:39,440
flatter lot in Rollingwood than this
one. And then the last lot would be like

258
00:22:36,159 --> 00:22:45,280
a kind of, you know, a kind of oddly
shaped long wide lot with some

259
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:49,520
topography.
Uh but the characteristic is mostly now

260
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,520
obviously this house doesn't fit on this
lot.

261
00:22:53,039 --> 00:23:00,919
Um we we would have to have altered the
design. Um but wasn't just

262
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:09,559
yeah was a bit tough that's

263
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,120
one.

264
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:27,120
Well, this is really interesting. I
think if like maybe some screenshots of

265
00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:31,360
this would be too to show. I don't know
if planners gonna like look at these or

266
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:36,799
see these or not. They've already seen
it. Okay. They did. They've already

267
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:44,799
they've already voted on it. All right.
Sorry.

268
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:50,720
And if you if you uh look at the Zoom B
the Zoom uh for this most recent

269
00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:56,960
planning zoning commission meeting,
these show up nicely on the Zoom

270
00:23:53,679 --> 00:23:59,960
screens. So, They're well they're well
presented.

271
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:08,799
Well, you guys have obviously put a lot
of effort into this and really

272
00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:13,679
appreciate it. It's really helpful.
Yeah. For the community too at large to

273
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:17,679
understand. Yeah. No, it's our pleasure.
Work.

274
00:24:16,159 --> 00:24:23,600
All right. Any more questions or
anything else anybody wants to

275
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,600
see? All

276
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:30,120
right.
Thank you for voting.

277
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:37,760
Thank you all.
I know we paid you a fee, but I kind of

278
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:41,760
feel like you you volunt you volunteered
a bit, too, because there's a lot of

279
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,960
effort that went into that. I can tell.
Yeah. Well, you know, it's it's nice to

280
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:49,279
be able to help out, too. So, we
appreciate it. The the fee was only

281
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:53,200
partial the partial compensation. All
right, good ordinances is can tell

282
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:58,200
there's a real public service component
to that. We appreciate that. Thank you.

283
00:24:59,279 --> 00:25:06,120
We'll move on to the consent agenda. And
I have comments on two of these. So I

284
00:25:04,159 --> 00:25:12,080
think we'll just take them one at a
time. So item number three,

285
00:25:09,559 --> 00:25:16,559
uh discussion, possible action on the
minutes from the March 26, 2025 joint

286
00:25:14,799 --> 00:25:20,000
council and planning and zoning
commission meeting. I have a

287
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:27,200
Move
approval. Have a second. Second. All

288
00:25:24,159 --> 00:25:35,520
right. Motion by Brooke, second by Phil.
All in favor say I. I. Any oppose say

289
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:38,480
nay. Motion passes. Um. Agenda item
number four, discussing and possible

290
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:45,600
action on the minutes from the April
16th, 2025 city council meeting. I have

291
00:25:43,039 --> 00:25:51,279
and I'm sorry I meant to call about this
and get it fixed before the meeting and

292
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:57,360
I didn't um there is a typo on the very
last

293
00:25:53,159 --> 00:26:01,279
page and and and it's a word but I don't
think it's the word that we intended to

294
00:25:59,679 --> 00:26:07,200
have
um agenda item number

295
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:11,440
16 the last paragraph it says members of
city council expressed interest in the

296
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:17,520
park commission perusing next steps
I think it's supposed to say pursuing

297
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:25,279
the next steps. We
fix that. Um, that was my only

298
00:26:21,799 --> 00:26:35,520
comment. We have a motion on uh move
approval with the change on page

299
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:41,600
uh the last page 345 of the minutes from
perusing item 16 from perusing to

300
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:45,919
pursuing. Is there a second?
Second.

301
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:53,679
Motion by Brooke, second by Alec. All in
favor say I. I. Any oppose say

302
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,679
nay. Motion passes. 5

303
00:26:54,120 --> 00:27:02,400
nothing. Agenda item number six. No.
Five. Five. Discussion possible action

304
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:07,440
regarding acceptance of Michael RH's
resignation from the planning and zoning

305
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:12,960
commission. Do I have a motion? Move
approval of item number six. I have a

306
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:19,440
second.
Second. Motion by Brook, second by Bill.

307
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:23,640
All those in favor say I. I. Any oppose
say nay.

308
00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:27,919
Okay. Motion passes five to
nothing. Agenda item number six,

309
00:27:26,159 --> 00:27:32,960
discussion and possible action regarding
acceptance of a water utilities easement

310
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:39,120
granted by Olga Hobsar and located at 14
Tmont Drive.

311
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:45,840
Um, is he's not here. Right. Right. Do
we have an explanation? And is this a is

312
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:49,600
it a a water utility easement or
wastewater? Does it make a difference

313
00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:54,000
how we describe it? No, it's it's been
worded so as to allow either water or

314
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:58,159
wastewater services. Okay. In there. The
intention of this particular easement is

315
00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:01,840
I think council is is aware of it. at
that particular property. There is an

316
00:27:59,679 --> 00:28:06,000
issue with the discharge line that comes
into the sanitary sewer from that

317
00:28:03,679 --> 00:28:10,080
property on 14 Tmont that needs to be
corrected temporarily. The discharge

318
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:15,600
from that house, the waste water is
being routed above ground through a pipe

319
00:28:11,919 --> 00:28:20,080
on the adjacent property at 13 Tmont um
through an agreement kind of a verbal

320
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:24,000
agreement that that pipe is temporary.
It's above ground. It's fairly

321
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:28,480
vulnerable given to given its placement.
So, it's important the public health

322
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:33,600
that we we rectify the situation as
quickly as possible. So to be able to do

323
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:38,399
that, the uh the mayor and staff even
preceding me sort with Miss Kobar to get

324
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:44,000
the easement in there so we could do the
appropriate repairs to the sewer system.

325
00:28:41,919 --> 00:28:49,760
And we've got all of the issues with the
grinder pump and all that worked out and

326
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:54,080
he's responsible and yeah, the the
grinder pump is most certainly on on the

327
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:58,240
resident is the discharge line as it
kind of comes into the sewer system

328
00:28:56,399 --> 00:29:03,039
that's owned and operated by the city.
There's that pipe that connects to

329
00:29:00,679 --> 00:29:07,960
it. If I Is here, you can say it more
eloquently, but it is after the grinder

330
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:12,720
pump before the main trunk. Okay. All
right. Anybody else have any questions?

331
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:17,440
No, but I was involved in some
discussions on this and at some point

332
00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:21,760
we're going to consider defining the
homeowner's responsibility all the way

333
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:28,399
to the sewer line connection. And right
now it's from the we pick it up from the

334
00:29:25,679 --> 00:29:32,960
um grinder pump, but that's probably
needs to change. Right. I've spoken with

335
00:29:30,399 --> 00:29:35,279
the mayor some a few times since I've
been here about that exact same thing.

336
00:29:34,159 --> 00:29:39,520
He wanted to make sure that this was
taken care of first and and then we can

337
00:29:37,679 --> 00:29:44,279
make sure that this particular situation
doesn't become the city's issue moving

338
00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:44,279
forward.

339
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:53,200
We have a motion motion to accept the
easements. There a second. Second.

340
00:29:51,360 --> 00:30:00,600
Motion by Kevin, second by Brooke. All
in favor say I. I. Any oppose say

341
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:06,760
nay. A motion passes. Five to
nothing. Um, all right. On to the

342
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,760
regular agenda.

343
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:14,320
Agenda item number seven discussion
discussion and possible action on

344
00:30:11,919 --> 00:30:18,720
opposed ordinance amending chapter 107
of the city of rollingwoods code of

345
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:24,960
ordinances to related to residential
building heights and height measurement.

346
00:30:20,679 --> 00:30:24,960
So the subject of our

347
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:34,000
presentation any
discussion do we need a motion before we

348
00:30:31,679 --> 00:30:38,399
can have the discussion?
Um y'all can discuss.

349
00:30:42,039 --> 00:30:55,840
Um, Mayor Pro Tim, um, Brook Brown. Uh,
this item comes to the, um, council now

350
00:30:51,120 --> 00:31:01,840
for a decision, um, based on a 50 vote
from the planning and zoning commission.

351
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:07,919
As y'all are aware, this is a uh
proposal regarding build setting new

352
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:13,200
standards for building height uh within
the city of Rollingwood and methods of

353
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:20,799
measurement for building height. It
adopts what has the recommendation that

354
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:26,080
has come from the uh originally from the
uh

355
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:30,960
CRC and then after about a year's worth
of review at planning and zoning

356
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:37,320
uh it has been recommended to the
council for approval as proposed

357
00:31:34,159 --> 00:31:45,120
virtually as proposed by the the
CRC. I'm happy to walk through the terms

358
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:53,919
of the uh changes if the council would
like. I've also uh done my usual thing

359
00:31:49,919 --> 00:32:00,720
of clarifying edits to the language uh
without substantive change in except for

360
00:31:57,679 --> 00:32:08,880
one exception which I can I can talk
about but it would be uh my motion to

361
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:13,440
recommend approval of the proposed
ordinance with the edits that have been

362
00:32:11,519 --> 00:32:21,399
proposed
uh subject to

363
00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:28,360
uh the council's discussion and the
um

364
00:32:22,919 --> 00:32:28,360
consideration of the

365
00:32:31,919 --> 00:32:44,000
uh the one substantive change which is
to section 10783 lines 112 to

366
00:32:39,799 --> 00:32:49,519
118 that uh provide a an additional
clause laws to the special exception

367
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:54,320
that would be allowed for uh lots that
are on a flood plane or drainage

368
00:32:51,679 --> 00:33:02,799
easement.
A very long motion. Do we have a second?

369
00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:07,360
Um or discussion.
I'm ready to discuss it. Do we have to

370
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:11,840
have a second to discuss it or we have a
motion? So, we have a motion. So, as

371
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:17,840
well get a second.
I'll second it for point of discussion.

372
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:21,279
Okay. Motion number second by Phil. So
may I? Yes.

373
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:32,000
Um so I want to say this I think this is
a good ordinance. I really appreciate

374
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:35,760
the CRC's work on this and planning and
zoning's work on it. I know a lot of

375
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,519
people put a lot of effort and a lot of
time into it and it's very much

376
00:33:37,919 --> 00:33:43,640
appreciated and I think it's really
helped the whole community's

377
00:33:40,799 --> 00:33:48,480
understanding of the issue and of the
solution. So, it's really remarkable to

378
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:53,840
see that much care and effort put into
it. I've reviewed um Council Member

379
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:59,120
Brown's edits to the ordinance that are
clarifying and I concur with her

380
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:06,159
suggestions on the clarifying
um edits. that you know I do want to

381
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:14,159
discuss uh the special exception
process. um you know a a

382
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:20,560
um special exception my understanding is
a is a easier uh way to go to get relief

383
00:34:18,879 --> 00:34:25,919
from the ordinance than a variance would
be because a variance would have to show

384
00:34:22,919 --> 00:34:30,960
hardship I believe is the term which is
narrowly defined in the law and a

385
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:34,679
special exception would allow um
homeowners to get some relief from the

386
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:42,159
height limit but it has to have specific
criteria set out um to qualify for the

387
00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:46,320
special exception. And um you know,
Council Member Brown, I think you

388
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:51,280
mentioned a substantive edit which would
clarify the qualification for the

389
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:57,359
special exception involving being
adjacent to um was it green space or

390
00:34:54,159 --> 00:35:02,560
drainage? Uh flood plane or flood plane
or drainage easement. Okay. So that

391
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:06,160
means that the theory is that if if it's
next to a drainage easement or flood

392
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:12,079
plane then it's not going to annoy the
neighbor there to go higher. Yes. Okay.

393
00:35:09,839 --> 00:35:18,800
With a limit of five additional a
maximum of five feet of uh additional

394
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:25,599
height uh from what would otherwise be
the limit on height. So there's a cap so

395
00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:31,599
to speak on the additional relief that
can be granted right in that situation.

396
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:40,079
That's in the proposal. But the language
that that I suggested adding would be um

397
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:44,960
it it said in such cases in the case of
special exception were granted, the

398
00:35:42,079 --> 00:35:49,839
board may grant uh up to five additional
feet of building height. I added the

399
00:35:47,839 --> 00:35:56,400
language such that the maximum height
limits in

400
00:35:51,560 --> 00:36:01,599
10771B, the 35 ft are increased up to an
additional five um may be increased up

401
00:35:59,359 --> 00:36:11,880
to an additional 5T of building height
across the the um building

402
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:17,359
footprint. So the the five additional
feet didn't quite say all of that. It

403
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:21,359
just said five additional feet. You
don't know if that's across the entire

404
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:26,880
building, if that's across the entire
buildable area. So, I added that as

405
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:34,640
clarified. And would that additional 5T
change the 25- ft height at the distance

406
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:42,000
10 ft from the property line? It would
change it to 30 feet. Okay. And then the

407
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:48,720
35 ft would be 40t. And why would we go
up to 40 feet if we're really just

408
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:55,400
recognizing the fact that that side yard
is adjacent to a green space or flood

409
00:36:51,920 --> 00:37:02,920
plane? It could it could be the the the
um drainage easement or the flood plane

410
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:08,160
isn't necessarily limited to the
sideyard. There can be a flood plane. My

411
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:14,880
lot has flood plane across the back of
the lot. Uh other lots have flood plane

412
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:23,280
uh that may be diagonal to the lot.
Okay? You know, there's um there's a

413
00:37:17,599 --> 00:37:30,400
house on Pwick um that's on stilts that
most of that lot is in the flood plane.

414
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:36,760
So there the you can't quite it's not
it's not absolutely granted. that is

415
00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:41,359
subject to the approval of the board of
adjustment about how much of the lot

416
00:37:39,359 --> 00:37:45,440
would be
uh how much the height across what part

417
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:50,560
of the lot the height would be
increased. But it is possible this

418
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:57,359
language makes it possible to do it
across the entire lot. Okay. Up to five

419
00:37:53,440 --> 00:38:01,839
feet from the what from 25 to 30 and 35
to 40. And can I ask legal a question

420
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:07,440
about that?
Um is that

421
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:14,560
um if we write a special exception in
that manner, is a homeowner entitled to

422
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:18,240
the special exception if they show the
uh conditions that are set forth in the

423
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:23,760
ordinance that is being adjacent to
flood plane or drainage easements. You

424
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:29,119
put the word shall in there then. Yes.
But we didn't. Right. Yeah. So, we're

425
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:34,160
preserving the discretion of the board
of adjustment to grant or not grant that

426
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:40,240
based on how appropriate it is, the
reasonable discretion. Okay. And and the

427
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:45,680
the the test is used in this section is
the adverse impact on the lot's

428
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:53,280
buildable area. Okay.
All right. From the from the um flood

429
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:57,599
plane or the um drainage ements. Okay.
Thank you for the explanation.

430
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:03,119
There's another place in this ordinance
where special exception was used and the

431
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:09,680
recommendation from council was would be
to keep that as a variance. that was

432
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:13,359
addressed at PNZ and the change that was
suggested by council from special

433
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:23,440
exception to variance was approved in
the PNZ proposal. And if you um uh Duke

434
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:29,079
Garwood gave uh a very cogent response
on in other types of situations just

435
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:35,119
like we have for other building code
requirements, a variance may be granted

436
00:39:32,079 --> 00:39:39,520
if there are certain findings. and he
says, "I'm kind of the godfather of the

437
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:45,440
variances in Rollingwood, and the
process works well if you have an odd

438
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:52,400
lot or an odd situation or an that
impacts your ability to build with

439
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:57,680
within reasonable limits." And so, um,
that was the PNZ was comfortable with

440
00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:02,680
leaving that a variance for conditions
other than the flood plane or the

441
00:39:59,839 --> 00:40:08,800
drainage easement. Um,
so that's I wanted to make sure that it

442
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:12,720
was clear that that variance is still a
variance or that variance is a variance.

443
00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:16,800
That condition is a variant. Other
conditions would remain subject to a

444
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:23,000
variance standard.
So my question on the flood plane issue

445
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:28,520
is that there's no definition of
what

446
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:33,599
what classification if you will of flood
flame. You know, it is a the one-year

447
00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:36,480
flood plane, the 500year flood plane,
which flood plane,

448
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:47,839
because that that makes a huge
difference on how many homes this

449
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:51,520
potentially affects or how many lots it
potentially affects.

450
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:57,240
Do you have any suggestions on what
would be appropriate?

451
00:40:53,680 --> 00:41:01,880
I don't I don't know how
many homes are potentially affected.

452
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:08,680
That was going to be my other question.
Um how many that we have that are um

453
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:12,920
abuing a flood
plane to know what the what the

454
00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:18,800
difference would
be. But um Mr. Bench,

455
00:41:17,359 --> 00:41:24,560
would you be able to answer that
question? I'm sorry. And and I have a

456
00:41:21,359 --> 00:41:28,960
question about that too. is
okay. So, we just say that should some

457
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:31,960
portion of the buildable area reside on
or

458
00:41:33,079 --> 00:41:42,079
um the altered version is reside on or
have a common boundary with a flood

459
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:48,079
plane or drainage easement. And we don't
say

460
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:55,119
um what what category of flood plane if
we added oh one one year 100y year 500

461
00:41:51,920 --> 00:42:01,400
year what's unbuildable. Okay. Yeah.
Well, generally most of our ordinances

462
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:08,319
are written around the country. Mhm.
And it it is probably worth noting that

463
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:12,319
within this within this but u I think
whenever we were coming up with this

464
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:18,760
when we were thinking through this I
think we were considering it to be the

465
00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:18,760
100red-year flood plan which as you know

466
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:26,160
um you know um government entities like
the

467
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:30,920
USGS could change that at any time. So
that was really kind of what we were

468
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:37,440
after is we wanted to give people the
latitude to be able to work even as

469
00:42:34,079 --> 00:42:43,680
flood plane definitions are changing.
And is a 100red-year flood plane you

470
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:48,319
cannot permit a structure in it. Can you
I'm not an engineer, but

471
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:52,400
usually if you as long as you don't
raise the base flood elevation by a foot

472
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:56,960
and you do all the appropriate things
that so that you're not then most cities

473
00:42:54,720 --> 00:43:02,400
will allow building in in the 100redyear
flood plane, but I don't know what our

474
00:42:59,359 --> 00:43:06,079
ordinances do and I don't know
you can build in a 100-year flood plan.

475
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:10,079
Yeah, I've worked in several cities that
have 100 flood planes and it was quite

476
00:43:08,319 --> 00:43:14,960
flat and they absolutely extensively
built there, but it was related to the

477
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:18,079
base flood elevation and dirt you can
bring in, move around. You couldn't

478
00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:22,960
bring dirt in, you could just move it
around on the lot. Yeah. And so in lies

479
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:28,000
the reason why you would want to add in
five feet to the allowable height so

480
00:43:26,319 --> 00:43:32,800
that you could accommodate for that
flooding. The notion would be that you

481
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:37,200
may not be building livable area in that
additional 5t. you would be raising the

482
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:41,920
structure so that you're able to
accommodate. Does that make sense? So

483
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:47,040
maybe instead of it being adjacent to or
sharing a boundary with it should say if

484
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:51,599
it's on 100year flood plan maybe. I
don't know. I'm just trying to figure

485
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:56,640
out the Well, it says some portion of
the

486
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:59,599
reside on or have a common boundary with
because if you have a common boundary

487
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:05,119
with a hundred-year flood plane that
somebody builds a house on, should you

488
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:10,319
get to go higher just because they're on
flood plane? No, that's not the way it

489
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:15,119
reads. It's adjacency to the flood plane
that's on the lot.

490
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:22,400
Oh, there is a lot. Yeah, thank you.
Sorry, I'm a little slow on this. There

491
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:28,880
we are. Thank you. Okay. Are drainage
easements are they not

492
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:32,520
typically is that the same as a a like a
utility easement where it's usually five

493
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:40,400
feet on each side of the property line
or how how big are the I I think we have

494
00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:46,000
very few actual drainage easements in
Rollingwood. We do I think in the in

495
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:50,800
this instance in which this provision
would work, it would have to be a

496
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:57,040
drainage easement recorded with the city
of Rollingwood. Um it's like Ashworth's

497
00:44:53,760 --> 00:45:02,319
new drainage easement or Kevin Shell
probably has one. Exactly. are the

498
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:10,240
drainage easements that are that uh run
on what was private prop what was uh

499
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:21,040
homeowner owned property between the uh
Nixon and uh the houses on um Hatwood

500
00:45:17,119 --> 00:45:24,960
and Pleasant Cove. So there you know th
those are dedicated those are dedicated

501
00:45:23,359 --> 00:45:30,520
easements. They'll have a meets and
bounds description. It's not uh it

502
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:36,040
wouldn't be
um an easement that it wouldn't be

503
00:45:34,319 --> 00:45:42,000
property where
a drainage facility is located because

504
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:46,960
that still remains private property and
there's no easement to the city for a

505
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:52,960
drainage facility. If there's an actual
dedicated drainage easement, then this

506
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:58,560
provision would allow the exception. So
the intention is though that the the

507
00:45:55,119 --> 00:46:06,960
special exception is only allowed if the
drainage easement is in the buildable

508
00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:12,240
area of the lot. Uh the it the way it's
written is that there's a drainage

509
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:19,040
easement some portion of the drainage
the buildable area is on or have a com

510
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:23,240
has a boundary with the
uh buildable area. the drain the

511
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:29,920
buildable
area. Let me start up. The uh flood

512
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:36,079
plane or drainage easement must either
be on the buildable area or have a

513
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:41,599
boundary with the bu buildable area and
an extreme adverse impact on the lots

514
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:45,160
buildable area. So you could have a
situation where

515
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:55,760
um the the the slope's so steep adjacent
to it or there's some other condition

516
00:46:52,960 --> 00:47:01,880
where it's affect even though it's not
on the buildable area it's affecting the

517
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,880
buildable area.

518
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:13,280
I'm having a hard time understanding an
an example of where if if it's not on

519
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:18,720
the buildable area, how how would it
impact? Well, there's like one on Inwood

520
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:23,040
where the water goes actually through
part of the house where they've bridged

521
00:47:20,319 --> 00:47:27,280
over the drainage or is that right?
Yeah. And that would be an example. You

522
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:31,760
couldn't have built on the ground, but
that would be within the biblical area.

523
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:38,880
Yeah. Right. Yeah. I'm thinking about if
it's adjacent to there's one on Hubard

524
00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:43,400
Circle too kind of like that.
That's also not in the available area.

525
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:51,440
Sorry about
that. Checking my message and it came up

526
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:58,240
music.
Yeah, those are those are

527
00:47:54,359 --> 00:48:04,000
both in the setbacks. And so I'm trying
to understand how that how being

528
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:11,599
adjacent to that would necessitate being
able to go higher. I don't know if Mr.

529
00:48:07,359 --> 00:48:18,560
Bench wants to address that or not
on the on the drainage.

530
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:26,480
again. Um I think what our intent was
was to not penalize someone who is in a

531
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:34,880
floodprone area or an area where the
city asks to be able to put a

532
00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:40,079
um a a a drainage easement in. They
would not be penalized by being that

533
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:43,599
close to the water. we would give them
some

534
00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:49,119
additional height so that they can
overcome any kind of hardship that

535
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:56,559
flooding or an easement would create.
Now again this is all subject to BOA

536
00:48:53,480 --> 00:49:01,000
approval. So you know it would be up to
the BOA to decide whether or not there's

537
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:05,000
really something there. Does it really
merit the additional 5 feet or doesn't

538
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:10,640
it?
and and what we wanted to do was to

539
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:16,319
provide at least the latitude to enable
it just a little breathing

540
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:19,920
room. We had been asked about this was a
discussion within CRC and there were

541
00:49:18,319 --> 00:49:26,960
interested people about this particular
thing. Jay, I could I could see a situ

542
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:30,960
the just as I'm sitting here thinking, I
could see a situation where the a

543
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:36,119
drainage easement would take what would
otherwise be the entire sideyard where

544
00:49:33,839 --> 00:49:42,000
you would have
um um potentially some equipment, air

545
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:49,119
conditioner unit, and you would want
some accommodation to be able

546
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:55,880
to even though the drainage easement's
not in the buildable area. It takes up

547
00:49:52,000 --> 00:50:01,440
the whole sideyard and you need some
additional room or space.

548
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:05,760
like the example. I've got a severely
sloped lot with a seasonal creek that

549
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:12,240
runs in the back of it down at Inwood
Circle and I could see wanting to

550
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:17,040
cantalveriever a house out over that a
little bit. So that you stay out of that

551
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:20,839
floodway, but that's going to if you're
measuring from natural grade, that's

552
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:26,559
going to severely limit
how high I can build. uh you know cuz I

553
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:34,559
might be 10 ft off the ground hanging
out over the over the drainage. So

554
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:37,559
that's just a an example I think that
applies.

555
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:50,160
I already built mine. Or if your if your
if your backyard is taken up by the

556
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:56,000
drainage easement Yeah. and you want uh
you know some outdoor area in well I

557
00:50:54,480 --> 00:51:00,880
don't think anybody's whole backyard is
going to be taken up by the drainage but

558
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:05,040
I'm comfortable with it because of the
point that Mr. bench made. That's the

559
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:09,599
BOA still has to approve this. I mean,
if this was some automatic thing, they'd

560
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:14,640
be entitled to it. I would be concerned
about it, right? More, but I think with

561
00:51:12,319 --> 00:51:20,880
the BOA.
Yeah. Given our topography, you might

562
00:51:18,079 --> 00:51:27,640
just want to be a little sensitive to
some of our special situations. And I

563
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,640
believe this is it.

564
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:34,200
or have your driveway outside the
drainage ement.

565
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:41,280
And if I might add, so while while
you're discussing that, I pulled up our

566
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:46,559
GIS map, assuming the accuracy of the
GIS map, the only uh 100-year flood

567
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:50,960
plane that exists within the city limits
is it follows Eden's Creek. It starts

568
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:56,319
right there at Edgroveve goes up around
the back of Peters and uh then just

569
00:51:53,920 --> 00:52:01,280
follows the north side of uh of B caves
there and terminates into Lana. So

570
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:04,400
roughly counting while you're talking
about 10 properties there would be

571
00:52:03,119 --> 00:52:07,440
affected that currently have buildings
and about seven that don't have

572
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:11,359
buildings. That's 100year flood plan
100. Yeah. And we don't define what kind

573
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:14,800
of flood plane. Understood. But for the
discussion of should be 100 or 500 or

574
00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:18,319
what the hundredyear flood plane affects
about 17 properties of which 10 have

575
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:22,240
buildings. Yeah. Well, I'm pretty sure
that like Brook said, she's got a flood

576
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:26,240
plane, but if the if that's not a
hundred-year flood plane, then hers is

577
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:32,760
less than that, and that would affect
everybody on that.

578
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:38,720
Um, so
there without

579
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:41,880
a from the modifier, it's just hard to
know how many properties this

580
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:48,640
potentially
affects and and who all would be.

581
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:54,480
I would I would not opposed having it
apply to the hundredyear flood plane.

582
00:52:50,160 --> 00:53:00,960
No. Okay. 100 or less. No. No. 100 or
more. I think 100 or more. And I uh the

583
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:04,760
I don't know what what our administrator
is looking at, but when we have the u

584
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:10,640
the
the infrastructure improvement

585
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:16,599
improvement plan that K Freeze did model
the 100red-year flood plane

586
00:53:13,359 --> 00:53:22,640
uh in it. And there's several like my
backyard like the the

587
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:27,800
the creek bed that runs through open
yards on

588
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:33,599
uh
Wallace and down down Wallace. Those

589
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:38,480
were hund those were shown as
hundred-year flood lines including and

590
00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:43,280
and the the creek that comes through the
dry creek that comes through the park

591
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:46,400
property and onto Pleasant Cove. Okay, I
have a question about that. I'm sorry.

592
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:50,319
I'm maybe I'm confused, but my
understanding of hundredyear flood plane

593
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:54,960
means that it's going to flood every
hundred years is the definition of it.

594
00:53:52,559 --> 00:54:00,480
And my creek in the back of my house
floods every year. So, are we saying

595
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:04,880
that it only covers 100 year flood plane
or 100 or less? Creek behind you doesn't

596
00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:08,720
flood every Well, it would flood a
structure every year. I mean, it runs

597
00:54:06,559 --> 00:54:13,040
water that deep that's like white water
with a little waterfall. So there's

598
00:54:11,359 --> 00:54:18,640
runoff that goes through it every time
it rains, right? But that's a difference

599
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:22,720
between So what's the difference between
10-year flood plane and 100red-year

600
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:26,520
flood plane? 10ear floods more often. 10
times more often, right? Well, I don't

601
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:29,920
know. That's 10 times more often. Well,
that's that's the very definition. 10

602
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:34,160
times more likely. It's the very
definition. 10 times more likely to

603
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:38,160
flood. So what I'm saying is we want to
give relief to the areas that are more

604
00:54:36,079 --> 00:54:45,599
likely to flood, not less likely to
flood. Right. Correct. So, we want to do

605
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:50,960
100 years or less. I agree. That makes
sense to me, too. That's a logic way I

606
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:55,119
think about it. But
if it's a 10ear flood plan, you would

607
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:59,880
want to give them relief even more so
than 100. Yeah. Yeah.

608
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:10,480
I'm going to look up what's in these
freeze up to the board of adjustment,

609
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:17,599
right? providing that but I do think
it's a hundredyear flood plan or less

610
00:55:13,599 --> 00:55:24,079
you know so if it's 50 year 10 year or
up to a hundred year then yeah but you

611
00:55:20,319 --> 00:55:28,960
don't usually define a a a one year well
I understand that's not the that's not

612
00:55:26,559 --> 00:55:33,440
the concern usually so okay well we can
just leave so 100 a 100red-year flood

613
00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:36,800
plane would contain the 50-year flood
plane and a 10 year flood plane the

614
00:55:35,359 --> 00:55:41,680
100-year flood plane the extent of the
flooding It's inclusive of it. Exactly.

615
00:55:39,839 --> 00:55:45,920
They're progressively largest. Yes,
that's very plain. It's most certainly

616
00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:49,440
within the 100 year flood plane. I might
be in the 5,000y year flip plane. You

617
00:55:48,319 --> 00:55:54,880
guys probably wouldn't want to give me
any relief. I'm not What about that?

618
00:55:51,760 --> 00:56:01,200
What about the ice age?
10,000 years.

619
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,200
Well,

620
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:09,799
um I'm trying to find the infrastructure
improvement plan and it's always a pain

621
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:19,119
to
do. So, I'm

622
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:23,760
at this point. Is there a uh Nikki or
Michaela, can you tell me where to find

623
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:29,119
it on our website? I know there's a link
to it in one of the times on the

624
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,119
lefthand column, but I don't know

625
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:52,720
which at the top if you go to meet your
government on our web page. If you go to

626
00:56:50,319 --> 00:56:56,799
I'm sorry.
Okay. And then in the middle uh under

627
00:56:55,520 --> 00:57:01,760
planning and development, if you just
click on planning and

628
00:56:58,839 --> 00:57:08,760
development and then once you click on
that, it'll be down the side panel on

629
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,760
the left. Okay.

630
00:57:24,559 --> 00:57:36,119
Yeah, at this point I if you could go to
um can you put up page 43 of that on our

631
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:36,119
screen?

632
00:57:44,660 --> 00:57:47,739
[Music]

633
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,920
This shows the

634
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,799
Oh,

635
00:57:58,860 --> 00:58:05,480
[Music]
actually it

636
00:58:07,119 --> 00:58:14,000
this is where the city is looking at
doing drainage improvements.

637
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:22,119
They've identified that it's the plan
that identifies the top during the

638
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,119
and I would think that's

639
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:28,799
I'm okay with it as it's written. No,
with the

640
00:58:31,559 --> 00:58:46,359
BOA I've always looked at this because
that's what this legend shows. Okay.

641
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:46,359
What? Um 43 43 page 43.

642
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:53,280
A 100redyear flood plane is a more
significant flood

643
00:58:50,839 --> 00:58:57,520
than a 100red-year flood is a more
significant flood than

644
00:58:54,760 --> 00:59:01,040
a fiveyear flood or a 10ear flood.
That's true. That's the way to think

645
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:05,640
about a thing, right?
That's true.

646
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:12,000
So this what I what
I'm if we can pull it up I can pass this

647
00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:17,880
over to you. I was going to say the the
water level is lower with a one-year

648
00:59:14,319 --> 00:59:24,880
flood. This is with a 10ear
flood study indicates are the drainage

649
00:59:21,839 --> 00:59:29,960
areas of the city that need attention.
Right. And so that's what I I'd be

650
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:36,400
comfortable with whatever that
is or leave it plain. That makes sense.

651
00:59:34,079 --> 00:59:42,359
I would leave it as it is and let the
board of adjustment figure it out when

652
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,359
when they get

653
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:50,119
I think it's a good ordinance. I like
all the work that's been done on it.

654
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:59,400
It show as I understand the legend it's
the this is

655
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:05,960
this is a 100redyear inundation anywhere
from

656
01:00:07,310 --> 01:00:10,480
[Music]

657
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:21,280
that's why I've always thought that that
this map showed the 100redyear flood

658
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,280
plane. Yeah.

659
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:33,000
Yeah.
Well, I think at this point we just move

660
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:33,000
on with what we have.

661
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:41,000
Um there is one other decision that
needs to be made and that is the

662
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:49,960
language
um

663
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:49,960
um on um at line 42.

664
01:00:51,680 --> 01:01:00,079
If y'all recall the the current
ordinance uses the term building height,

665
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:05,200
residential as a defined term to define
building height. I think we can do away

666
01:01:03,119 --> 01:01:11,359
with that kind of cumbersome term and
replace it with building

667
01:01:07,559 --> 01:01:17,599
height and then reference the
residential zoning code. So building

668
01:01:14,799 --> 01:01:22,440
height is used in the resident in in
chapter 107 division two of the

669
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:28,880
residential zoning district
means. And then in if you turn to the se

670
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:38,319
second page
uh section 10771 at line 74

671
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:38,319
uh and throughout section

672
01:01:38,359 --> 01:01:46,920
10771 my edits would use the term
building height consistently through

673
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,920
that section.

674
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:57,200
If we don't do
that, if you look back at lines um 62 to

675
01:01:54,400 --> 01:02:00,960
65, this is the language in the existing
code that ties the definition building

676
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:05,200
height residential to the residential
zoning

677
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:13,640
code. So what I'm proposing is just a
simpler way and less convoluted way to

678
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:13,640
show use that term defined term.

679
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:21,280
Sounds good to me. Yeah, it's fine to
me.

680
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:28,480
And I would recommend that we we we we
do it as I just described it retain the

681
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:33,599
deletion of line 63 through 65 but now
use the term building height as opposed

682
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:39,839
to building height, residential. We take
that as an amended motion. I think I'll

683
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:45,040
state it in the motion. Okay. Um we had
a motion already. We didn't have a

684
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:49,839
motion. Didn't get a vote. U somebody
somebody seconded it.

685
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:55,839
vote on it. Second on it. That's
correct. Yes.

686
01:02:52,160 --> 01:03:01,680
Right. Well, what I was I I knew when I
made the motion that I didn't want to

687
01:02:57,359 --> 01:03:06,960
add all the the things that still needed
uh um Well, then resend your motion and

688
01:03:05,359 --> 01:03:11,760
remake your motion. I'm going to resend
the motion and remake my motion. Fine

689
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:11,760
with that.

690
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:19,359
I move we adopt ordinance

691
01:03:20,599 --> 01:03:28,280
2025-05-21-06 as uh contained in the
packet

692
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:35,480
uh the item Brook with the Brook Brown
edits. It's shown Brook Brown

693
01:03:32,559 --> 01:03:41,880
definitions of existing
grade I'm sorry Brook Brown edits to

694
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:50,160
building height ordinance
519-2025 with the changes as proposed in

695
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:57,760
that version of the proposed ordinance
and that those changes include the

696
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:57,760
changes at lines 42 through 44.

697
01:04:07,319 --> 01:04:11,039
Four and that is my

698
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:20,160
proposal and the deletion of lines 62
through 65.

699
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:24,480
Well, it is deleted. That that's with
the with the edits. But I I believe you

700
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:32,079
want didn't you want to remove the word
residential on the building height?

701
01:04:27,839 --> 01:04:37,640
No, that's that's no. Okay. Okay.
We're striking the term building res

702
01:04:35,319 --> 01:04:42,520
residential building height,
residential. We're converting that to

703
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:50,119
building height. We're
referencing as used in chapter 107

704
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:50,119
division 2 residential zoning district.

705
01:04:51,200 --> 01:05:00,559
And we're re retaining the deletion of
lines 62 62 through

706
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:05,680
65 and we're not using the alternative
that's in the paragraph or keep this

707
01:05:03,119 --> 01:05:09,599
right. Okay. Okay. But when I look at
line 42, it says building height,

708
01:05:08,079 --> 01:05:13,520
residential, and she's got that
scratched out. It's not scratched out on

709
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:18,240
mine. You're not looking at Brook's
edits version of that. It's all

710
01:05:15,119 --> 01:05:28,240
handwritten. Oh, the handwritten. Okay.
I was looking. Okay. Y and second.

711
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:36,640
Okay. Amended motion by or revised
motion by Brook and second by Phil. So

712
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:47,119
may I last? Okay. I I just have one
question. Um on line 118 in uh

713
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:53,440
Councilwoman Brown's um additions.
I'm not sure I that she so wants to have

714
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:57,119
so long as such increase in height at a
distance of at least 25 ft from the

715
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:02,400
nearest property line. Did you want to
keep that in there or uh No, I did not.

716
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:09,839
Instead of that language, my motion
would be that line

717
01:06:06,039 --> 01:06:16,799
171 117 to 118 read, "In such cases, the
board may grant a special

718
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:24,039
exception such that in insert such that
the maximum height limits as stated in

719
01:06:21,319 --> 01:06:30,520
10771B are
increased for up to five additional feet

720
01:06:27,039 --> 01:06:30,520
of building height.

721
01:06:39,039 --> 01:06:47,119
So this would this portion would get
scratched.

722
01:06:43,839 --> 01:06:54,400
Uh lines 117 to 118 would be reddrafted
to add the additional clause. So long as

723
01:06:51,440 --> 01:07:00,799
but not the so long as not the so long
ask. Thank you. Thank you.

724
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:05,240
And uh I appreciate Jay's bringing this
to my attention because I missed it.

725
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:18,160
Are we clear on
what the wording changes?

726
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:22,200
Okay.
All

727
01:07:19,079 --> 01:07:28,760
right. Any additional
discussion? We get to vote.

728
01:07:25,599 --> 01:07:37,000
All those in favor say I. I. All say
nay. Motion passes. 5 nothing.

729
01:07:32,799 --> 01:07:37,000
And I do I do want

730
01:07:42,799 --> 01:07:51,960
Mayor Pro Tim. Yes ma'am. Uh, I would
like to take a minute to uh give a big

731
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:57,440
thank you to the
CRCRC, Dave Bench, Tom Ferrell, Duke

732
01:07:54,799 --> 01:08:01,920
Garwood, Alex Robinette, Jayvon Babl,
Jeff Marx, Brian

733
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:06,960
Ryder, and for all their work that
they've done on this project. I would

734
01:08:04,799 --> 01:08:11,480
also like to give a big thank you to the
members of the planning and zoning

735
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:17,520
commission, Dave Bench, Tony Stein, Mike
Rhodess, Brian Nash, Jeannie Nyer, Jerry

736
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:22,319
Fleming, Michael Hall for all the work
they've done on this project. I would

737
01:08:20,319 --> 01:08:26,400
also like to thank the community members
who have spoken up and come to the

738
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:34,799
meetings and attended and given their
advice and their comment and their um um

739
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:39,839
uh participation, the benefit of their
council to the commission and to the to

740
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:45,880
both planning zoning commission and to
this council. And I would like to give a

741
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:51,679
big thank you to our staff Michaela and
Nikki Ashley now gone and our new

742
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:56,319
administrator Allan who have manned the
meetings, kept us on track, answered our

743
01:08:54,000 --> 01:09:00,719
questions and shared their experiences.
And I would like to also thank Alter

744
01:08:58,319 --> 01:09:03,719
Studio for all their good work on this
project.

745
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:16,839
All right. Um, we have had a request to
jump to agenda item number 11.

746
01:09:17,199 --> 01:09:22,400
This will be quick, Melissa, and then
we'll go back to

747
01:09:19,799 --> 01:09:26,520
your discussion and possible action
regarding appointing appointment to fill

748
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:33,440
a vacancy on the planning and zoning
commission. Um due to the retire um

749
01:09:31,199 --> 01:09:40,080
resignation of Michael Rhodess, we have
an opening on PMZ and we have two

750
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:44,199
applicants for that position. Sean
Downing and Jay Van Bal.

751
01:09:44,239 --> 01:09:53,040
I have a motion. Okay. Uh I would move
that we appoint uh Jayvon Bavl to the

752
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:58,679
open position on planning and zoning
commission. Jay's been a tireless member

753
01:09:55,360 --> 01:10:03,760
of the CRC. did a beautiful job on the
pre-ordinance and uh I think you do a

754
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:10,400
fine job on planning and zoning and I so
I would like to move to appoint Javvon

755
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:14,080
Babel. We have a second.
I'll second.

756
01:10:12,159 --> 01:10:21,120
All right. Motion by Brooke, second by
Kevin. Any further

757
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:27,280
discussion? All those in favor say I. I.
All oppose. All right. Motion passes.

758
01:10:24,719 --> 01:10:33,000
Five to nothing.
Uh, welcome Jay. The planning and zoning

759
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:33,000
commission.

760
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:43,360
All right. Appreciate you being willing
to serve. Yes. Yes. And Sean being

761
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:47,320
willing to serve. Absolutely. We will
find a spot for him later.

762
01:10:48,199 --> 01:10:54,719
Um, we will go back now to agenda item
number eight, discussion and possible

763
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:58,400
action on recommendations from the park
commission regarding proposals received

764
01:10:56,480 --> 01:11:03,719
for the alternative plan to the
retaining wall project.

765
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:07,520
All right, who wants
to who wants to talk?

766
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:22,320
Melissa Morrow, 252 Timberline Drive.
Um, parks commission chair. Um, this has

767
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:27,360
been a long time coming. Um, this was
approved almost probably more than a

768
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:34,000
year and a half ago. Um, and RCDC has
funded it. Um, and we got some great

769
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:39,760
bids. They were wide ranging in scale.
Um some people wanted to do what seemed

770
01:11:37,199 --> 01:11:44,800
like a went above and beyond what was
required of the bid. Um we did feel

771
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:49,040
really confident that Gomez um would do
a good job. They do a lot of work in the

772
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:54,560
community and um several people were
familiar with them. Um and they also

773
01:11:53,040 --> 01:12:00,400
happen to be the lowest bidder which we
love. So um but we do think they do

774
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:05,760
really quality work. So, um, if y'all
have any questions, go right ahead.

775
01:12:03,679 --> 01:12:11,360
So, are we being asked to take action
and approve the Gomez Gomez bid bid?

776
01:12:09,199 --> 01:12:16,080
Okay. And that that's what uh we had a
motion from parks recommending it to you

777
01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:21,159
all. Great. Okay. And you're confident
that their bid includes all of the

778
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:28,080
essential items? Yes.
Because they're very brief. They are

779
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:34,120
very brief. And so I was
very wordy. I was I was not clear from

780
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:39,199
their bid that they
had from the wording of their bid and

781
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:43,920
from the dollar amount of their bid that
they had included everything. So they

782
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:49,199
did and I I can tell you one comparison
to Moserity. Moserity included a rain

783
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:54,640
garden and something else that was way
above and beyond what we were having a

784
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:58,239
plan for. So that if you took those two
things out and I can't remember what the

785
01:12:56,080 --> 01:13:03,920
other thing was, then they really were
very similar. Um, but we really believe

786
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:07,520
that Gomez has seen the picture of what
we want it to look like and they're

787
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:10,520
like, "Done. That's what we're going to
do."

788
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:19,280
And they and they're familiar with the
site and they know what they have to

789
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:26,480
demo and Yep. what they're starting with
and all of that, too. So Okay.

790
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:33,120
Okay. Move to approve. Second.
All right. Any additional discussion?

791
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:38,800
All those in favor say I. I. Oppose say
nay. And thank you to parks commission

792
01:13:36,239 --> 01:13:45,840
for getting this proposal together and
before us. Yeah. Yeah. CDC2. Yeah. Such

793
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:48,640
a such a better plan. Fantastic. Much
better plan. I think it's going to be

794
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:55,280
really beautiful. And then we have one
more thing. Okay. Yes. We go on to

795
01:13:52,560 --> 01:14:00,239
agenda item number 12, I think. I think
no, we're nine. Nine. Okay. Um,

796
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:03,360
discussion and possible action on a
recommendation from the park commission

797
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:07,159
to authorize funding for a partial
survey of Rollingwood Park to be used to

798
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:11,360
facilitate planning for future
improvements. Yes. So, it turns out we

799
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:15,920
don't have a survey, which makes it
really hard. Um, in particular, when we

800
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:19,520
look at um doing some improvements to
the parking areas, that's what we're

801
01:14:17,440 --> 01:14:23,360
really looking at at this point. And so
I think you can see in your packet

802
01:14:21,679 --> 01:14:26,719
there's three different levels of what
we could ask for in a survey. And we

803
01:14:25,199 --> 01:14:32,800
really just decided that we would let
you all make the decision. Um basically

804
01:14:29,679 --> 01:14:38,640
one is to survey the entire park. Um two
is to survey just the upper park and

805
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:43,120
three was just to survey the areas
around our parking. And when I say that,

806
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:46,719
I believe we actually drew a little
picture around it. I don't know if it's

807
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:55,679
included in your packet, but basically
what we're talking about is the the

808
01:14:49,600 --> 01:15:03,920
parking lot that is south of field two
um uh east of field 3, four, and five

809
01:14:59,440 --> 01:15:09,520
between the field and the pool. And then
the one that's north of fields 3, four,

810
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:14,960
and five, that's we just need a survey
basically around those areas. I would

811
01:15:11,679 --> 01:15:19,040
include I liked the bid that had $15 per
tree. We because we do want to include

812
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:23,199
the trees obviously that's important in
the park, you know, dealing with the

813
01:15:20,480 --> 01:15:30,800
parking. Um but we're totally fine with
not doing a full survey and just doing

814
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:36,600
um the areas around those parking areas
and the I'm just now seeing this bid

815
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:42,960
price. So
um can can staff address what the the

816
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:50,480
cost of the different options are? Yes
ma'am. So we did ask um ATS with whom we

817
01:15:46,159 --> 01:15:53,920
we normally work for such things. They
bid it conservatively. So they did say

818
01:15:52,159 --> 01:15:57,600
this can be kind of the high-end cost
because of the time constraints they had

819
01:15:55,520 --> 01:16:01,760
from us between the park commission
meeting and this meeting for it. So the

820
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:06,280
uh the full survey which is the boundary
and improvements only they're saying be

821
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:11,600
11,000 or no more than
11,500. The upper park boundary and

822
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:15,280
improvements be no more than 6,500. And
then the portion of the park that uh

823
01:16:13,679 --> 01:16:20,400
Miss Mara just described would be no
more than 3500. The tree survey would be

824
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:24,560
kind of an alakard option of $15 per
tree. And if we want to do topographical

825
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:30,320
features as well, that would add either
5,000 for the upper park or 8,000 to the

826
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:36,400
cost of the entire survey.
I don't see do topographic of just that

827
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:39,199
area. Yeah, but it's it's I don't think
you're going to need it because that if

828
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:45,280
you're talking about just the parking
lot areas, it's pretty flat. So, there's

829
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:49,600
not really a bunch of topo to shoot and
the grades are pretty obvious as far as

830
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:53,679
which way it's going to sheet flow, I
think. But I don't think you need the

831
01:16:51,679 --> 01:17:00,719
too. It's just my opinion, but that's
just an opinion. We know what that's

832
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:05,040
worth. Well, I'd be in favor of doing
just the parking lot areas and including

833
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:10,080
the trees as you mentioned. That seems
like a reasonable cost and I certainly

834
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:12,880
understand the need for it to plan
parking lot improvements and I think

835
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:17,120
those parking lot improvements are
sorely needed. I'm really glad to hear

836
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:20,880
the park commission's focusing on the
parking lot and what could be done to

837
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:26,880
improve it. I think it's been a safety
issue for a long time and it's very

838
01:17:23,239 --> 01:17:33,600
inefficient as it is now and so I
certainly support that effort.

839
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:40,080
Which one? Option three. Is it option
three with the trees included?

840
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:43,800
Trees in that area. Yeah, just the trees
within the boundaries of that area and

841
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:48,920
no topo just
to basically locate the pavement, the

842
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:54,320
fencing, the grass,
the figure out that'll help them lay

843
01:17:52,400 --> 01:18:00,159
that into CAD and start playing around
with new parking lot configurations, see

844
01:17:57,199 --> 01:18:07,960
if they fit or not. Do we have any other
projects where a more thorough survey

845
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:07,960
would be useful?

846
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:17,280
Well, I don't know what y'all's plan is
if you do the um the city hall and this

847
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:22,239
area. If you consider that part of the
park, that that's that would be a

848
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:26,719
another huge project that I occasionally
hear about.

849
01:18:24,159 --> 01:18:31,920
I think we should do that on a cart at
that time. Yeah. I'm sorry, I can't hear

850
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:36,800
you. I I think we ought to, you know,
Yes.

851
01:18:33,199 --> 01:18:40,800
We haven't gotten very far on the design
of city hall, but I think at the time

852
01:18:38,719 --> 01:18:48,000
that we start doing that, then we'll
worry about doing topos and and surveys

853
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:53,920
of this area. I don't think we need to
include that in with this. Nor do I

854
01:18:51,679 --> 01:19:00,080
think that the fieldhouse requires any
kind of survey currently if we want to

855
01:18:57,199 --> 01:19:04,239
do anything with the fieldhouse. Could
could we put on the agenda for our next

856
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:09,040
meeting to talk about the status of the
new city hall and uh you know kind of

857
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:13,600
see what's happening with that and what
we want to do about it if you don't

858
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:19,360
mind. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you
Michaela.

859
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:26,000
Yes. Yeah.
I didn't but I just this is ad livinging

860
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:33,040
Shanti Jumar 39 Park Drive. When we did
the park master plan, did they not do a

861
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:38,640
survey? Just a question. I mean, that
cost us like $25,000 for the entire park

862
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:42,320
master plan. You would have thought I I
couldn't dig up my thing. I didn't have

863
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:46,080
the time. But I know we've asked all the
city staff and no one's been able to

864
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:50,080
find it because I exactly like you, I
thought for sure we don't have a survey

865
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:54,080
because I have the park master plan
somewhere, but I just couldn't get my

866
01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:59,040
hands on it. We looked through that as
well. look through different department

867
01:19:56,640 --> 01:20:06,320
on the Travis County police website. I
I've just

868
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:12,719
That was a big big expense that we did
to survey and chart out all the you know

869
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:17,760
where everything is, right? Surely that
was part of the I hate for us to pay

870
01:20:15,520 --> 01:20:21,360
double for all these things. So I just
thought I'll bring that up for yall.

871
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:26,520
I've seen that master plan and I didn't
see a survey in it. I don't think there

872
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:32,560
was one. I don't think there was one.
Um, there probably was a survey done

873
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:37,520
when we bought the property from the
There's a meats and bounds description

874
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:40,480
dispound. Yeah. But it won't show where
the fence is, where the edge of the

875
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:44,719
pavement is, and they're trying to
locate like the ball field fences and

876
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:48,719
the pavement edges which came later.
Yeah. Which can they can then drop into

877
01:20:46,480 --> 01:20:54,000
a CAD program and start redesigning
those parking areas. That makes sense.

878
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:59,920
Well, just start guessing. There's a
good there's a good point. We tried.

879
01:20:56,960 --> 01:21:05,840
Yeah, we we looked everywhere.
Save some money like this retaining wall

880
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:10,080
project retaining wall project. I mean,
didn't we like

881
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:14,320
30 up to 30,000 or something? That was
what the original cost was. What did the

882
01:21:12,239 --> 01:21:20,960
new retaining wall project? What is the
new Gomez that we just approved?

883
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:25,440
It's approximately 21,000 and RCDC my
memory serves me approved up to 32.

884
01:21:23,199 --> 01:21:29,120
Yeah. Or 31 32 somewhere something like
that. Yeah, that's great. I don't know

885
01:21:26,480 --> 01:21:34,159
if there's a way to like lump this in.
You going to get our CDC to pay for

886
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:39,040
this? Yeah, we could ask them to part of
a capital improvement. It is. I would

887
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:44,000
think they had allocated as part of
their motion the 32,000 or 31,000 was

888
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:50,719
for erosion controls behind the
fieldhouse. Okay. All right. We can come

889
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:55,920
back to them later. Well, I would that
because they beer slotted a certain up

890
01:21:53,040 --> 01:22:01,920
to a certain amount annually, but we can
certainly ask

891
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:09,040
I'm I'm happy with the upper park only
and trees, the parking areas only.

892
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:14,320
Uh the half park survey as it's listed
in the attachment.

893
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:19,840
Yeah, half park survey. the half park
survey at $3,500.

894
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:27,440
Option three plus option six, the tree
survey for the half park area.

895
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:33,199
Great. Yeah.
We have an official motion. A motion. Is

896
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:37,800
that a motion? Um I'm I was thinking you
were going to do the motion, but I can

897
01:22:34,639 --> 01:22:45,679
do the motion. I'm I move we approve
uh uh hiring ATS to do a half park

898
01:22:43,199 --> 01:22:53,679
survey identified as option three in
their bid proposal at $3500 plus option

899
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:59,480
six tree survey at $15 per tree for
those trees that are in the half park

900
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:07,880
survey area plus
tax plus tax

901
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:07,880
if applicable if applicable.

902
01:23:08,719 --> 01:23:18,120
Okay, that's the way they've quoted it.
So, just make sure.

903
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:18,120
Okay, we have a second.

904
01:23:19,679 --> 01:23:29,360
A second. Okay, motion by Brooke, second
by Kevin. Any further discussion?

905
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:37,239
All those in favor say I. I. All post
say nay. Motion passes five to nothing.

906
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:37,239
Thank you. Thank you.

907
01:23:48,719 --> 01:23:56,800
Okay. On to agenda item number 10.
Discussion and possible action to

908
01:23:53,360 --> 01:24:01,920
approve the fiscal year 2025 2026 budget
calendar.

909
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:06,560
So, mayor and and council members, uh,
the proposed calendar in front of you

910
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:10,800
very closely mirrors um what you did
last year. Uh, the days had to go

911
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:16,239
forward and backwards a couple of days
based on uh when Wednesdays fall. It all

912
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:20,360
meets the uh it's been reviewed by our
legal department here, our legal

913
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:26,000
services. And
um the calendar is legal so long as the

914
01:24:23,440 --> 01:24:29,920
tax rate that is proposed by council um
will not exceed the voter approval rate

915
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:34,320
which I thought was a safe assumption
for the uh the draft of the the

916
01:24:37,159 --> 01:24:43,520
calendar assumption.
I never I never like to assume too much

917
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:49,520
but I thought that was that was safe.
Well that has been our that has been our

918
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:54,520
normal procedure. Yes.
do not require a vote on our tax rate.

919
01:24:56,120 --> 01:25:06,400
Um, I would move approval of the
proposed budget and tax rate calendar. I

920
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:14,560
will note I am out of town the
Wednesday, June the 11th. U,

921
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:17,360
but someone can catch me up, I'm sure.
I don't know if other I raise that only

922
01:25:16,159 --> 01:25:24,000
because if others are going to be
absent, we may want to change that date.

923
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:29,520
But if not, I can live with it and
June when June 11th because it's a

924
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:33,679
workshop, we don't have to have a super
majority

925
01:25:31,199 --> 01:25:41,199
even even if it's just a work even if
we're not taking any action.

926
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:48,800
Okay. spoke one of them can be n all
have to be in person. Okay. Okay.

927
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:53,629
Anybody else have a problem with June
11th?

928
01:25:50,550 --> 01:25:53,629
[Music]

929
01:25:54,320 --> 01:26:05,280
Nope. I'm
looking two days before that. Somebody's

930
01:26:00,639 --> 01:26:11,520
flying to MSP that day. Okay. The other
one that might be you have to be is

931
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:11,520
Labor Day September

932
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:25,120
1st. I mean that's far enough away that
might not be a problem. It is apparent.

933
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:27,440
Anybody going to be gone the week of
Labor

934
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:32,600
Day? Okay.

935
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:44,400
we can catch you up. Yeah, I think so.
Okay, so it was a motion. Did we have a

936
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:51,280
second?
Second. Okay, motion by Brooke, second

937
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:51,280
by Alec. Any further

938
01:26:52,440 --> 01:27:01,159
discussion? All in favor say I. I. Any
oppose say nay. All right. Motion

939
01:26:58,159 --> 01:27:01,159
passes.

940
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:12,239
All right. 11. So on to agenda item
number 12. Discussion, possible action

941
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:17,199
on a recommendation for planning and
zoning commission requesting a

942
01:27:14,480 --> 01:27:20,800
recommendation and next steps such as
scheduled public hearings from the city

943
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:25,120
council regarding proposed amendments to
the Rollingwood Code of Ordinances,

944
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:28,719
Chapter 107, zoning related to
definitions and the placement of

945
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:31,719
playhouses, playscapes, and mechanical
equipment.

946
01:27:32,679 --> 01:27:39,520
So, we want to have Dave explain or
Nikki, you good?

947
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:51,159
Okay. So, um this actually comes to
y'all from CRC. Oh, actually, sorry.

948
01:27:49,360 --> 01:28:01,320
This comes to y'all partially from the
CRC, but um mostly from when we had the

949
01:27:56,159 --> 01:28:06,960
uh playhouse on uh Pwick that came to us
and we all were to be looking at

950
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:11,600
playhouses, playcapes, and then uh
mechanical equipment locations. So, they

951
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:17,679
were accessory structures or buildings.
we had a little bit confusion on how

952
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:22,880
those were defined, how um we were to
interpret that in the code. Um what the

953
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:27,920
planning and zoning commission did is
once we got the guidance from y'all,

954
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:32,639
they uh started a subcommittee and that
subcommittee kind of came up with the

955
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:37,520
different definitions of playhouse, the
playcapes, where they should be located

956
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:43,120
and um how to differentiate um the
locations of them. Um, so that is the

957
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:50,120
one ordinance that you have written in
front of you that gives you the

958
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:55,440
definitions as well as the placement for
those. And then on the other ordinance

959
01:28:54,000 --> 01:29:01,360
that you have in front of you is for
mechanical equipment. The reason for

960
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:08,320
this is um mechanical equipment such as
a pool, a generator, um your AC's, HVAC

961
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:15,520
units, anything of that is considered a
structure currently in our code because

962
01:29:10,719 --> 01:29:22,320
it is built on a slab and structures
can't encroach into a setback or into a

963
01:29:18,159 --> 01:29:28,400
required yard. So with that um it was
kind of interesting on how those are

964
01:29:24,719 --> 01:29:33,760
playing out with the review process. Um
so the commission did kind of come up

965
01:29:31,199 --> 01:29:40,920
with a definition of what mechanical
equipment is which does define out the

966
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:46,480
generators, the pool equipment and
HVAC. And then it uh gives you the

967
01:29:44,159 --> 01:29:53,840
allowances of where they are allowed and
where they're not.

968
01:29:48,440 --> 01:29:58,800
Um what we are asking is that um y'all
take a look at this and uh the planning

969
01:29:56,159 --> 01:30:06,000
and zoning commission uh did look at
this. They did um kind of go in and

970
01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:11,679
approve the language per se to bring
forward to y'all. Um and they did that

971
01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:17,760
unanimous unanimously um on two separate
votes, two separate occasions. Um, and

972
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:22,080
what we're asking is for you to take a
look at that and then um, if possible,

973
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:27,440
this will have to go through a public
hearing before it is adopted. So, um, I

974
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:31,159
do have a few dates for that if y'all
are interested in that.

975
01:30:42,480 --> 01:30:49,280
Do you have any
questions, comments? I think we should

976
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:53,120
take them one at a time.
I didn't have any on the mechanical. I

977
01:30:51,199 --> 01:30:57,840
did on the playscapes, I think. I'm just
trying to figure it out.

978
01:30:55,760 --> 01:31:01,639
Okay. Want to do the playhouse and
playcape one first?

979
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:10,480
I am I'm ready to uh allow this to be go
back to planning and zoning for a public

980
01:31:08,719 --> 01:31:15,600
hearing. I don't think we need to spend
that much

981
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:20,280
time deciding if we like this exact
language because it will go back to

982
01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:31,180
planning and zoning
for public hearing. Yes, we are.

983
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:31,180
[Laughter]

984
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:41,600
I think you got a good point. I think
you have a good point. Yeah. I think

985
01:31:36,960 --> 01:31:46,080
what they need is just for us to
What is that? Do you want to make that a

986
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:51,679
motion to send it back? I would I would
move we approve

987
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:58,920
the recommendation
uh from planning and zoning to set a

988
01:31:55,440 --> 01:32:05,719
date for their cons for public
hearings on the

989
01:32:02,719 --> 01:32:12,400
uh playscape the proposed Playscape
ordinance and

990
01:32:08,679 --> 01:32:17,679
um mechanical equipment ordinance and
that

991
01:32:13,719 --> 01:32:25,040
Um I think the So that's my motion.
Second. And the So you doing just one or

992
01:32:20,719 --> 01:32:30,880
both of them? She did both. Both. Okay.
And I would um as to public hearing, I'd

993
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:36,080
like some discussion on whether there
are other things pending that require

994
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:39,679
public hearing at planning and zoning
and when we might set those dates and

995
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:44,239
whether we do a joint public hearing on
them.

996
01:32:42,159 --> 01:32:49,520
At this time, we don't have anything
that's pending for a public hearing

997
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:54,960
except for these two. Okay. Say public
hearing in the summertime is usually not

998
01:32:51,760 --> 01:33:00,880
go over well. Want to do it in September
because a lot of people are gone. I do

999
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:07,360
have the potential dates if y'all are
interested in that. Sure. Okay. So, um,

1000
01:33:04,480 --> 01:33:11,760
with the timetable that we have to
notify with the mailed notices and the

1001
01:33:09,199 --> 01:33:16,159
newspaper, the next PNZ meeting that it
could go to, if y'all would like to do a

1002
01:33:13,520 --> 01:33:20,960
joint, um, is the planning and zoning
commission meeting on the regular

1003
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:27,760
scheduled agenda date of June 4th. So,
um, not um, actually, sorry, sorry,

1004
01:33:26,239 --> 01:33:32,719
that's not enough notice. If we wanted
to do a joint meeting on uh y'all's next

1005
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:38,080
scheduled uh council meeting, so the
June meeting on June 18th, we could do

1006
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:42,400
that. Um but planning and zoning would
have to attend y'all's meeting for that.

1007
01:33:40,239 --> 01:33:47,040
Um and then we could jointly do that if
that is one. If not, if you wanted to

1008
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:52,000
kind of do them separately, the next uh
PNZ meeting, if y'all wanted to do them

1009
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:58,159
separate, would be the July 2nd one. Um
and then the council meeting for July.

1010
01:33:55,760 --> 01:34:03,199
Is there going to be a July 2nd P&Z
meeting?

1011
01:34:00,719 --> 01:34:08,080
I'm sorry. Is there going to be a July
2nd? Right. Um,

1012
01:34:06,480 --> 01:34:12,320
well, I guess it depends on whether or
not there's a subject matter to discuss.

1013
01:34:10,960 --> 01:34:15,440
I was going to say a lot of the boards
and commissions don't meet in the

1014
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:20,520
summertime because you can't get enough
people for a quorum and the week of

1015
01:34:18,480 --> 01:34:25,840
Fourth of July. Fourth of July. my
office. The week of Fourth of July was

1016
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:30,639
just as bad as the week of Christmas. It
was like nobody there. So, can we just

1017
01:34:28,159 --> 01:34:35,760
do it in September?
Let's do it as a joint a joint meeting.

1018
01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:39,600
Let's do it in in a joint meeting so we
don't have to do two notices and do it

1019
01:34:37,440 --> 01:34:44,960
in September. That's what I'd suggest.
That's what I would suggest too. And

1020
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:50,880
this is residential code. So it would
require

1021
01:34:47,239 --> 01:34:56,800
um individual mailings, doesn't it? So I
think it's I think it saves us money and

1022
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:59,280
effort to do a joint meeting, joint
public

1023
01:35:01,639 --> 01:35:10,560
hearing. So I would agree with your
recommendation. Do we want to anybody

1024
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:16,239
have any tweaks to these before we
publish them for a public

1025
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:16,239
meeting a public

1026
01:35:17,560 --> 01:35:24,239
hearing? I have a few comments if nobody
else does. Um the definition of

1027
01:35:22,639 --> 01:35:31,159
playscape
um where it says has no solid

1028
01:35:26,679 --> 01:35:40,199
floor. A lot of the play states have
um upper levels that have a solid floor.

1029
01:35:35,679 --> 01:35:50,080
And so I don't know why the solid floor
is a part of that definition but I think

1030
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:53,040
that is unnecessarily restrictive.
My understanding from the planning is

1031
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:57,600
only commission the intention was I
think a ground level floor so as to

1032
01:35:55,360 --> 01:36:01,520
preclude the the growth of grass. I
don't think they were considering a

1033
01:35:59,440 --> 01:36:07,760
second level where it's open below. So I
know there's a lot of focus on could the

1034
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:17,080
sunlight get there? the rain get there.
And I think we should clarify clarify

1035
01:36:10,719 --> 01:36:23,920
that. Um and then on the taller place
gate where it says the

1036
01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:29,920
D3, the playhouse must be set back at
least six feet from any property

1037
01:36:26,520 --> 01:36:29,920
line. We

1038
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:39,120
have setback requirements.
um for

1039
01:36:36,440 --> 01:36:45,639
fences. I don't remember if the fence is
the side fence is 15 feet from the curb

1040
01:36:41,440 --> 01:36:45,639
or from the property line.

1041
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:54,719
It's going to be um from the curb
because it can be on but Oh, you're

1042
01:36:52,960 --> 01:37:01,119
talking about from the front, not on the
side yard on a playcapes may be in the

1043
01:36:57,679 --> 01:37:05,760
required side or rear yard, right? Okay.
Okay. So, if it's on the side on the

1044
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:09,520
corner. Yes, I get it. Yeah. I did not
follow that. Yeah. What's your Can you

1045
01:37:07,679 --> 01:37:17,440
explain what you were thinking? Okay. If
you have a house on a corner. Mhm. You

1046
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:23,920
have a requirement that the fence if you
have a fence that it can't be any closer

1047
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:31,520
than 15 feet from the curb,
right? And the side.

1048
01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:36,400
Um but then 10 feet of that is the
rightway.

1049
01:37:33,199 --> 01:37:42,000
The rightway. 10 feet is what? Is the
ride ofway? 10 feet of what is the

1050
01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:48,920
rightway?
10 of the 15t that you have from the

1051
01:37:45,440 --> 01:37:55,360
curb to the fence. 10 feet is the
rightway. And so you could put it I

1052
01:37:52,639 --> 01:38:02,719
guess that would allow you to put it
just inside the the allowable fence. So

1053
01:38:00,159 --> 01:38:09,040
okay
I wasn't remembering if the if 15t was

1054
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:14,320
from the curb or from the I don't from
the property line. When you say 10 the

1055
01:38:11,440 --> 01:38:20,239
first 10 feet on a residential lot on a
corner lot from the curb to the the

1056
01:38:17,679 --> 01:38:26,159
first 10 feet on the sideyard is right
ofway property from the curb.

1057
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:31,440
Yes. Right of way for what? Street
rightway. Street right period. Just city

1058
01:38:29,440 --> 01:38:39,199
rightway. So your prop your property
line is 10 feet from the curb in most

1059
01:38:35,679 --> 01:38:43,760
cases. It's crazy but that's what it is.
We don't own the first 10 ft from the

1060
01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:50,239
curb of our of our Okay. You're saying
so it's not so this the setback begins

1061
01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:55,840
at the property line
setback. The setback does but the where

1062
01:38:52,239 --> 01:39:02,960
you can put the fence there's is and the
fence is where 15 ft from the curb right

1063
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:07,760
so it would be inside the property line
five feet within the property line.

1064
01:39:05,440 --> 01:39:11,679
Okay, now I'm following. So, I just
wanted to make sure that the that you

1065
01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:15,840
couldn't have a playhouse closer to the
street than you could have the fence.

1066
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:20,880
So, I just want So, it would be a foot
it'd be a foot inside the fence in that

1067
01:39:18,639 --> 01:39:25,360
scenario if they put it as close as they
could. Okay.

1068
01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:29,840
But I love the idea of letting planning
and zoning work though.

1069
01:39:27,980 --> 01:39:36,320
[Music]
Got a fresh member. We do beat this up

1070
01:39:33,199 --> 01:39:36,320
pretty good.

1071
01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:42,880
on the on the mechanical
one.

1072
01:39:48,119 --> 01:39:59,800
Um or the
the backyard. There's no distance. What

1073
01:39:55,119 --> 01:39:59,800
line are you on, please? 36.

1074
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:10,239
This is required.
Um, line 36. Yes.

1075
01:40:08,080 --> 01:40:16,760
Um, so you can put it all the way up.
The mechanical equipment ordinance.

1076
01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:16,760
Yes.

1077
01:40:19,630 --> 01:40:28,719
[Music]
So you can put it up up against the

1078
01:40:24,719 --> 01:40:28,719
fence in the back. In the

1079
01:40:29,560 --> 01:40:39,199
back. Yeah.
We did not specify

1080
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:43,080
and and we had talked before about
requiring all of this stuff to be in the

1081
01:40:42,159 --> 01:40:48,320
buildable
area. And to me, that's a huge change

1082
01:40:46,320 --> 01:40:55,119
from in the buildable area to right up
against the back fence. Um, and I am

1083
01:40:52,239 --> 01:40:58,840
surprised that PNZ recommended this
because I thought one of the members of

1084
01:40:56,639 --> 01:41:04,159
PNZ had a problem with somebody
somebody's a neighboring pool equipment

1085
01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:10,159
that was up against the back fence that
was noisy. The side fence

1086
01:41:07,480 --> 01:41:14,800
was it that their side? Side fence.
Okay. Yeah. And

1087
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:17,600
well, side fence, back fence doesn't
make any difference if it's up that

1088
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:21,320
close to your house. It's still going to
cause a problem. Okay. Not not all of

1089
01:41:20,080 --> 01:41:27,040
these things
uh passed

1090
01:41:23,719 --> 01:41:33,199
u by everybody. Okay. These these these
votes were not okay. I would I would not

1091
01:41:31,199 --> 01:41:37,960
be in favor in allowing it to go all the
way with no restriction to the backyard.

1092
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:47,080
And if we make these
changes, our existing

1093
01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:52,159
installations,
grandfather, because we do have, I've

1094
01:41:50,719 --> 01:41:56,239
walked around the neighborhood just to
look and see where everybody's AC units

1095
01:41:54,159 --> 01:42:00,800
and generators and, you know, stuff that
you can see from the street. And we do

1096
01:41:58,719 --> 01:42:07,560
have a couple houses that have their AC
equipment in front of the house. Um,

1097
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:12,679
your generator's in front of your house
side. It's in front of your house.

1098
01:42:13,360 --> 01:42:21,400
I don't know that I would define that as
the front of my house. I think it's in

1099
01:42:17,199 --> 01:42:21,400
the defined side yard.

1100
01:42:22,639 --> 01:42:31,679
Let's get a satellite image up right
now. Yeah. Yeah. No, I Anyway, I'm just

1101
01:42:28,560 --> 01:42:36,400
I'm just wanting to make sure that we we
don't

1102
01:42:33,400 --> 01:42:42,040
um penalize people who already have
their stuff installed and also that we

1103
01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:46,639
are Yeah.
Um careful about the screening. We've

1104
01:42:44,560 --> 01:42:51,639
got a lot of people that have AC units
on their sideyards. Sure.

1105
01:42:49,119 --> 01:42:57,199
And so,
um, having to screen those if it's new

1106
01:42:55,280 --> 01:43:02,400
equipment, but then if somebody has one
that's there and they replace it, they

1107
01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:07,840
then have to screen it if it's this is
in zoning, so it's

1108
01:43:04,679 --> 01:43:12,800
it's existing units would be
grandfathered. I don't I don't think

1109
01:43:09,679 --> 01:43:19,520
unless it required a permit, would this
replacement does require a permit? Uh,

1110
01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:19,520
because it's a zoning requirement, not a

1111
01:43:19,639 --> 01:43:29,840
Um, a new AC unit requires a permit.
Okay.

1112
01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:35,840
Really? Yes. Replacing one does. All
right. Can we get rid of that one? Yeah.

1113
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:42,480
Thanks for there's probably nobody in
the city that knows that.

1114
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:49,360
Yep. Oh, I didn't hear that. Electrical
alone. I mean, got to get an electrician

1115
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:52,880
to do it. It's going to require
the

1116
01:43:50,600 --> 01:43:58,320
AC company does. They don't have to
connect the AC electricity. They do. It

1117
01:43:55,679 --> 01:44:02,960
doesn't require electrician HVAC
contractor.

1118
01:43:59,840 --> 01:44:06,639
It's got it's got a shut off that's on
your house typically and then a line.

1119
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:10,880
And what they're going to do is
disconnect the line and connect it to

1120
01:44:09,360 --> 01:44:16,239
the
still mechanical building code.

1121
01:44:14,239 --> 01:44:22,199
I've never had an electrician come out
when I replace my AC unit. You're

1122
01:44:18,400 --> 01:44:22,199
getting a little a field.

1123
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:31,520
Oh, I'm trying to clarify who this would
apply

1124
01:44:28,679 --> 01:44:36,159
to. And if it applies to somebody that
has an existing house and has an AC unit

1125
01:44:33,679 --> 01:44:41,760
that's on their sideyard and they get a
new AC unit, are they going to then have

1126
01:44:38,880 --> 01:44:46,719
to do the screening? Good question. It
is a good question. I would think no

1127
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:51,199
unless they were fully moving it if you
wanted to relocate it. But if you're

1128
01:44:49,040 --> 01:44:54,840
from repair and replace legal
standpoint, what

1129
01:44:55,760 --> 01:45:03,440
formal uses and structures and then see
what it says. Okay. All right. Well,

1130
01:45:01,520 --> 01:45:07,440
we're not voting on it now. I just those
are the things that came to mind when I

1131
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:10,719
was reading this that we would need to
clarify. Well, I think the question

1132
01:45:09,199 --> 01:45:15,840
would be, do you want it to come back
here

1133
01:45:12,719 --> 01:45:19,199
uh for us for the council to address
those questions before we send it back

1134
01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:26,320
or do you want to go ahead and send it
back or set it for public hearing and

1135
01:45:22,600 --> 01:45:31,440
have and that that would that that's
what I think that's where I think we

1136
01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:34,800
are. If you don't think it's ready for
prime time, we can take it back and look

1137
01:45:33,199 --> 01:45:38,159
at some more.
I would suggest that since we don't

1138
01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:45,440
really want to have a public hearing
before September anyway, why don't you

1139
01:45:40,159 --> 01:45:49,400
guys work on it and take those notes and
see what you can do with it?

1140
01:45:53,360 --> 01:46:03,040
I move we send build your playhouses
before the law changes.

1141
01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:06,960
uh two draft ordinances in item 12 back
to planning and zoning for consideration

1142
01:46:05,040 --> 01:46:13,440
of the council's comments and further
work with a public hearing to be

1143
01:46:10,239 --> 01:46:17,239
considered in September. Second. All
right. Motion by Brook, second by Kevin.

1144
01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:24,000
Any further
discussion? All those in favor say I. I.

1145
01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:27,000
Any post say nay. Motion passes by
nothing.

1146
01:46:32,440 --> 01:46:41,199
Okay. Agenda item number
13, discussion and possible action on

1147
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:46,719
addressing setback orientation for lots
with limited street

1148
01:46:42,920 --> 01:46:52,679
frontage. Um, this is my agenda item and
the wording was tweaked from what I

1149
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:57,840
submitted. I said with no street
frontage

1150
01:46:54,840 --> 01:46:57,840
and

1151
01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:06,639
the issue that I think we need to think
about is there are and I haven't looked

1152
01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:11,600
at a map to make sure that I have
counted

1153
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:17,440
all all of the various properties that
this impacts but we have at least four

1154
01:47:14,719 --> 01:47:23,760
that Nikki and I have just thought of
off the top of our head.

1155
01:47:19,840 --> 01:47:28,239
lots that the only street frontage is
the

1156
01:47:25,080 --> 01:47:33,920
driveway. And so the driveway, you know,
our our code requires for a legal lot

1157
01:47:31,760 --> 01:47:40,080
that it have a 100 foot street frontage.
And there are some that are back behind

1158
01:47:36,800 --> 01:47:48,159
other lots. And so there's a driveway
that comes to the street, but there is

1159
01:47:43,560 --> 01:47:54,320
no effective property line on the
street.

1160
01:47:49,679 --> 01:48:00,320
And so I have a a neighbor who has one
of these lots behind them and she asked

1161
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:03,600
me about, you know, what they were going
to be able to do back there. And I said,

1162
01:48:02,000 --> 01:48:08,560
"Oh, this is interesting." I said, "How
do you how do you

1163
01:48:05,320 --> 01:48:13,520
set not what do you measure from for the
set setbacks, but how do you orient the

1164
01:48:11,239 --> 01:48:18,960
setbacks when you don't have street
frontage?" Because right now we've

1165
01:48:16,400 --> 01:48:24,719
defined the you know this the front of
the lot is the

1166
01:48:20,360 --> 01:48:29,840
addressed lot the addressed
um side that faces the street. So that's

1167
01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:34,719
where you have a 30- foot setback behind
it's a 20 foot setback and then you have

1168
01:48:31,679 --> 01:48:40,639
the two sides that total 25 ft. But if
you're not on the street what

1169
01:48:38,440 --> 01:48:44,520
orientation are those setbacks supposed
to be at?

1170
01:48:42,480 --> 01:48:49,360
And because you're back in the middle of
things, you are going to be abuting

1171
01:48:47,440 --> 01:48:54,400
other lots. Those lots are going to abut
other lots that

1172
01:48:51,239 --> 01:49:00,280
are probably mostly backyards, but also
could be sideyards depending on how the

1173
01:48:57,040 --> 01:49:07,119
lot is oriented. And I
just one of them. Did you look that one

1174
01:49:04,400 --> 01:49:10,280
up on Inwood Cove to see how that one
was oriented?

1175
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:17,239
We there's one on Inwood Cove that was
the subject of a lawsuit a number of

1176
01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:23,920
years ago because it
was separated off from a lot on

1177
01:49:22,239 --> 01:49:28,239
Timberline and it had no street
frontage. So you couldn't access the lot

1178
01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:32,960
at all and they the lawsuit was trying
to find a where they could put a

1179
01:49:31,119 --> 01:49:37,199
driveway in so you could actually access
lot. So when that came up we didn't

1180
01:49:35,119 --> 01:49:41,119
really worry about what the orientation
of the setbacks were. We're trying to

1181
01:49:39,119 --> 01:49:45,520
get them to be able to actually get to
the lot. So, that one's already been

1182
01:49:43,440 --> 01:49:52,080
rebuilt and that one is not likely to be
an issue, but there's um one where the

1183
01:49:49,119 --> 01:49:57,280
home on this interior lot has been
demolished and so it is liable to come

1184
01:49:55,520 --> 01:50:03,880
back at some point in the not too
distant future. And I just thought that

1185
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:11,440
we needed to address this before we
have somebody turning in a a plan um

1186
01:50:08,560 --> 01:50:18,320
that we have to then say, "Well, we
don't really know what what you're

1187
01:50:13,639 --> 01:50:26,199
allowed." And so I would recommend that
we send this to PNZ for y'all to PNZ to

1188
01:50:21,760 --> 01:50:31,600
look at. But if anybody has any thoughts
on how we would orient that, if we if we

1189
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:37,480
want to make an exception on the
setbacks for those lots, if you if you

1190
01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:41,840
do an
average all the way around instead of

1191
01:50:40,080 --> 01:50:48,960
having the, you know, the 30, 20,
whatever, because right now a 30 foot

1192
01:50:45,920 --> 01:50:56,560
street setback also has the 10 foot
rightway. So, those are really 40 feet

1193
01:50:51,119 --> 01:51:01,280
from the um from the curb, but you would
not have the you would not have the

1194
01:50:58,880 --> 01:51:06,320
rightway issue on those lots. So, they
would really be 30 feet from the

1195
01:51:03,199 --> 01:51:12,400
property line and and not have extra
property on the you know around the

1196
01:51:09,440 --> 01:51:17,440
Would there be any lot of any of these
lots that would be adjacent to a street?

1197
01:51:15,360 --> 01:51:21,800
I don't think No, they're not. Yeah. No,
that's right. would be an issue, right?

1198
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:27,760
Okay.
But right now, if on on all lots that do

1199
01:51:25,440 --> 01:51:31,840
have street frontage, you have the 10 ft
that looks like it's part of your yard

1200
01:51:29,840 --> 01:51:36,960
that's not part of your property, right?
And the setbacks are from that that

1201
01:51:33,719 --> 01:51:42,159
point. So, you you have a smaller
building area than what the property

1202
01:51:39,920 --> 01:51:50,000
area would seem to allow. But when you
don't have the rightway, you you can you

1203
01:51:46,560 --> 01:51:54,520
only have those the setbacks that you're
not able to build into. Yeah. the I'm a

1204
01:51:53,040 --> 01:52:00,599
little
um I think the description in this one

1205
01:51:58,560 --> 01:52:08,199
sheet is a little
bit less than clear because it says that

1206
01:52:05,280 --> 01:52:13,400
the setbacks are based on street fun
frontage but the setbacks are based on

1207
01:52:11,760 --> 01:52:20,880
the property
line. The orientation is based on street

1208
01:52:17,960 --> 01:52:30,119
frontage. And so when we're asking
planning and zoning to look at this, are

1209
01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:38,400
we asking them to address just the
orientation or are we asking them

1210
01:52:33,480 --> 01:52:44,000
to change the size of the setbacks or to
review the size of the setbacks? Now,

1211
01:52:42,320 --> 01:52:48,880
you know, in the residential zoning
code, and I think you're talking about

1212
01:52:46,080 --> 01:52:53,360
residential properties here, all of the
setbacks are defined from the width of

1213
01:52:51,360 --> 01:52:59,920
the setbacks are defined from the
property line.

1214
01:52:55,920 --> 01:53:05,119
So, this is the intent the intention of
my agenda item was to address the

1215
01:53:02,560 --> 01:53:09,760
orientation. Orientation. Okay. Which is
what it says in I just wanted to make

1216
01:53:06,639 --> 01:53:16,400
that clear. Yes. And after I turned it
in, then I started thinking about how

1217
01:53:13,520 --> 01:53:23,280
you would, you know, make this spare for
everybody and appropriate for everybody.

1218
01:53:20,840 --> 01:53:30,159
Um, and that's when I said, "Well, maybe
you could change the the dimensions of

1219
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:35,000
the setbacks because there's there's not
really a front or a back or a based on

1220
01:53:34,000 --> 01:53:43,119
the
street access for these lots.

1221
01:53:40,679 --> 01:53:46,719
So, that would be something that PNZ
could look at and then give us a

1222
01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:52,880
recommendation." So both the orientation
and the size of the setbacks. Yes. If

1223
01:53:50,560 --> 01:53:56,960
you if you change the setbacks to make
them consistent all the way around for

1224
01:53:55,520 --> 01:54:00,840
those interior lots, then the
orientation doesn't matter.

1225
01:54:01,760 --> 01:54:09,639
Is is that what you just said? Is that
interesting to you to make it that way?

1226
01:54:07,679 --> 01:54:16,520
I I think
that I don't have a good way to or I

1227
01:54:13,280 --> 01:54:21,679
don't have a
um doesn't impact me personally. So I

1228
01:54:19,599 --> 01:54:26,159
don't have any preference that I have
come up with. I think we just need to

1229
01:54:23,440 --> 01:54:33,920
look at the all of the aspects of this
and decide what is most appropriate and

1230
01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:41,280
and fairest to everybody. In some cases,
um, one of these houses it has it backs

1231
01:54:37,760 --> 01:54:45,880
up to city of Boston at one point. So,
you know, we're not really as concerned

1232
01:54:42,880 --> 01:54:45,880
about

1233
01:54:46,880 --> 01:54:52,480
it's not backing up on that side. It's
not backing up to another Rollingwood

1234
01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:58,159
resident. And then some of the other
ones are back up to the bluff over

1235
01:54:56,080 --> 01:55:04,320
Becaves. So, there's not another there's
no other houses behind them there. So,

1236
01:55:01,599 --> 01:55:07,280
Are there even five of these in
rollingwood?

1237
01:55:06,000 --> 01:55:11,639
There's at least four. It's hard to
think of, you know, where these might

1238
01:55:08,599 --> 01:55:16,639
be. Come up with even five
oversh that we have that Vicki and I

1239
01:55:14,880 --> 01:55:21,520
came up with. And I, like I said, I have
not looked at the whole map and okay,

1240
01:55:18,719 --> 01:55:25,599
identified all of them. But
yeah, there's what I what I would

1241
01:55:23,360 --> 01:55:29,840
suggest is
identify the properties and then just go

1242
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:34,719
through them one by one. just kind of
put yourself in the

1243
01:55:32,560 --> 01:55:43,599
in the shoes of the neighbor and of the
property owner. What would be fair? But

1244
01:55:39,800 --> 01:55:48,040
there there are, excuse me, um there are
some codes that um get very specific

1245
01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:54,239
about
addresses, not in our code, but I know

1246
01:55:50,320 --> 01:55:58,080
other codes do that. And um I'm
wondering is that is that what you're

1247
01:55:55,679 --> 01:56:02,239
looking for for this particular lot? Do
you want to establish what the

1248
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:06,960
orientation and setback requirements are
going to be or do you want a more

1249
01:56:04,080 --> 01:56:14,239
general
uh houses that are off the street behind

1250
01:56:09,840 --> 01:56:18,639
other lots? Uh general I don't I don't
want to do a oneoff for one property.

1251
01:56:16,480 --> 01:56:23,199
Okay. Okay. All right. I don't I don't
think that's a good policy. All right.

1252
01:56:21,280 --> 01:56:28,560
Okay.
I'm going to ask staff to identify where

1253
01:56:25,119 --> 01:56:32,239
these properties are and Okay. So, and
we can ask planning and zoning to look

1254
01:56:30,480 --> 01:56:35,760
at this, decide whether they think it's
something that needs to be addressed,

1255
01:56:33,679 --> 01:56:40,560
and if it does, what they recommend.
Yeah, that what we're going to do. Well,

1256
01:56:38,239 --> 01:56:45,800
I think I talked to Brooke about this
and you said that right now it says that

1257
01:56:42,480 --> 01:56:51,599
if there's any any
um uncertainty that the building

1258
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:56,719
official gets to decide that that was
removed when we changed did the front

1259
01:56:54,560 --> 01:57:02,639
yard requirement. Okay. But that's the
way we used to have it. And that to me

1260
01:56:59,599 --> 01:57:07,920
puts Nikki in a bad position. And that's
that to me is where we are right now. If

1261
01:57:04,880 --> 01:57:15,760
it comes in and we don't have this
defined, what would happen today if if

1262
01:57:11,119 --> 01:57:22,080
the lot is not if you're not if it's not
if you can't apply the current setback

1263
01:57:19,639 --> 01:57:27,280
requirements to that lot, then they
would need to seek a variance.

1264
01:57:25,679 --> 01:57:33,119
And so it would go to board of
adjustment for approval of of

1265
01:57:30,360 --> 01:57:39,159
any variance. Well, it's not that they
can't beat this the setbacks. It's like

1266
01:57:35,199 --> 01:57:39,159
how do you orient the setbacks?

1267
01:57:40,320 --> 01:57:49,360
Well, but you also talked about the size
of having them address the size of

1268
01:57:45,199 --> 01:57:53,520
setback that would be a variance, right?
So that that if we decide to change

1269
01:57:51,599 --> 01:57:58,560
that, if we don't change that, we still
have to address the

1270
01:57:54,920 --> 01:58:04,159
orientation issue because right now
that's not really well defined and

1271
01:58:02,239 --> 01:58:08,960
and nor we haven't given Nikki any
guidance on what we how we want to

1272
01:58:06,480 --> 01:58:14,960
handle that. So,
we do have some words about, you

1273
01:58:12,520 --> 01:58:20,560
know, the front entrance of the house
needs to face the street kind of thing.

1274
01:58:17,599 --> 01:58:25,280
The addressed street, but she's saying
these lots don't abut an address street.

1275
01:58:23,199 --> 01:58:29,280
Well, they do face the street, right?
The driveway. They're still behind. So,

1276
01:58:27,679 --> 01:58:32,560
they would they would essentially take
the same orientation as the house in

1277
01:58:31,040 --> 01:58:36,320
front of them. Yeah. It's like it's
still the driver. It's still there is a

1278
01:58:34,400 --> 01:58:40,880
street they come from and the front
would still have to face that street

1279
01:58:37,840 --> 01:58:46,560
even if it's set back 200 feet. Does it
have to? I think that's how it would be

1280
01:58:42,880 --> 01:58:50,400
inter but we can make it so. Yeah. Yeah.
But that that may not make the most

1281
01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:55,119
sense from decide this tonight. I don't
either. And I'm concerned about trying

1282
01:58:52,480 --> 01:58:59,119
to solve problems in the abstract. But I
think it is a good thing for planning

1283
01:58:56,560 --> 01:59:05,760
and zoning to think about. I I would
think there probably some of these where

1284
01:59:02,360 --> 01:59:15,520
the the house is not facing the street
and the road Yeah. uh has access to

1285
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:20,719
um so I'm thinking anyway
yes this makes up very very good point

1286
01:59:18,239 --> 01:59:26,639
that you brought up there's one house
two or three Ashworth you know the only

1287
01:59:23,760 --> 01:59:31,040
access for it is from Ashworth you have
to go all the way you can't see the

1288
01:59:29,199 --> 01:59:37,520
house no that's at least five then I
forgot about that is a very very unusual

1289
01:59:35,000 --> 01:59:41,599
situation you can't apply any of these
compared to well and that house does not

1290
01:59:39,679 --> 01:59:47,880
face the street. That's what I'm saying.
203 Ashworth. If you put it up, you have

1291
01:59:44,560 --> 01:59:52,480
to go from Ashworth where there is 2011
Ashworth and there's a very long

1292
01:59:50,320 --> 01:59:57,960
driveway and you wonder where it's
taking you. It goes all the way down and

1293
01:59:54,960 --> 02:00:05,040
there's just that one house doesn't face
Ashworth doesn't face anything. It's

1294
02:00:01,040 --> 02:00:10,480
right there. more toward I mean uh uhuh
no take take a look on your probably it

1295
02:00:08,080 --> 02:00:14,800
probably does more face towards than it
does towards Ashworth which is the you

1296
02:00:12,560 --> 02:00:22,080
know it brings up a lot of issues for
fire safety for access to emergency

1297
02:00:19,239 --> 02:00:29,239
vehicles all kinds of stuff nobody has
talked about it so it's a good thing you

1298
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:29,239
brought up to take so anyway

1299
02:00:29,440 --> 02:00:35,719
okay all right do we need a motion for
that or can we just let them

1300
02:00:36,159 --> 02:00:44,440
I think we can go on the agenda.
Okay. Um All right. We will pass that on

1301
02:00:42,920 --> 02:00:50,560
to
P&Z and move on to agenda item number

1302
02:00:53,320 --> 02:01:01,800
14. 14. Discussion and possible action
on installation of a valley gutter at

1303
02:00:58,080 --> 02:01:01,800
the intersection of Veil

1304
02:01:01,880 --> 02:01:08,800
Okay, this got changed too and it
doesn't make as much sense this way.

1305
02:01:07,040 --> 02:01:12,320
Discussion possible action on
installation of a valley gutter at the

1306
02:01:10,320 --> 02:01:19,480
intersection of Veil Street and Venice
Boulevard and other water diversion

1307
02:01:14,040 --> 02:01:19,480
structures. It's not an and it's an or.

1308
02:01:20,320 --> 02:01:30,719
We need to do something to address the
the drainage that comes from Bettis

1309
02:01:27,280 --> 02:01:36,119
um down to Bettis and then crosses Veil.
Um right now the

1310
02:01:34,599 --> 02:01:41,920
water
turns and then my directions in rolling

1311
02:01:39,199 --> 02:01:45,159
order are always weird. So, it kind of
comes

1312
02:01:43,159 --> 02:01:52,960
um
souththeast and then it turns around the

1313
02:01:48,159 --> 02:01:56,599
corner and goes north northeast and then
it goes across the road in the middle of

1314
02:01:55,360 --> 02:02:01,280
the
street. And if it's raining really hard,

1315
02:01:59,360 --> 02:02:07,920
it goes over the curb and right down to
their front door. Whose front door? You

1316
02:02:04,960 --> 02:02:13,560
said their front door. 305. Yes. For the
home on Veil.

1317
02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:13,560
Um,

1318
02:02:15,040 --> 02:02:19,000
you saying the one in the picture?

1319
02:02:20,639 --> 02:02:26,119
Is there a picture?
Yes.

1320
02:02:29,199 --> 02:02:32,840
In the public comment.

1321
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:39,119
Okay. Yeah. Yeah, there's a picture.
Well, I know there's a picture on the

1322
02:02:37,199 --> 02:02:45,440
public comment. Okay.
No, that that is not right. That is not

1323
02:02:42,480 --> 02:02:52,320
the picture of the house that's being
affected. Okay. Um, no,

1324
02:02:49,159 --> 02:02:57,360
that's 305.
It is. There's a picture of it. The the

1325
02:02:54,880 --> 02:03:03,560
house with the fire plug in front is the
house that's affected. 305 305 305 Veil.

1326
02:03:01,360 --> 02:03:08,639
They have they have done
some grading and made

1327
02:03:06,360 --> 02:03:14,800
changes, but they had water all the way
up to their front door um in a recent

1328
02:03:11,520 --> 02:03:21,679
heavy rain and it goes rushing through
their sideyard and out um to the street.

1329
02:03:19,440 --> 02:03:26,480
And we had talked about this a number of
years ago when we were doing some paving

1330
02:03:24,719 --> 02:03:31,360
projects and I said we should put a
valley gutter in there because we want

1331
02:03:28,080 --> 02:03:35,599
the water same as we talked about at the
same time we talked about the valley

1332
02:03:32,560 --> 02:03:41,520
gutter at the end of Nixon at Hatley
which was put in but was not put in

1333
02:03:37,920 --> 02:03:45,920
properly. Um because we have places
where the water is coming down the

1334
02:03:43,119 --> 02:03:50,159
street and it instead of continuing on
to the final drainage point, it comes

1335
02:03:47,920 --> 02:03:54,400
around a corner and then it impacts
other homes before it gets to the final

1336
02:03:52,639 --> 02:03:57,920
destination. Can you tell us again where
the water's flowing now that I'm looking

1337
02:03:56,159 --> 02:04:03,119
at this picture and I've got a map up?
Is it coming from Bettis? It's coming

1338
02:04:00,800 --> 02:04:07,760
down most of it's coming down Bettis
mostly going west to east, right? It

1339
02:04:05,599 --> 02:04:12,000
gets to Veil and and it doesn't cross
the street at Veil. It does not go it

1340
02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:17,920
does not go straight. It does not go
straight across the because of the way

1341
02:04:13,920 --> 02:04:23,599
the the better is curved. It goes around
the corner and then it goes across the

1342
02:04:19,760 --> 02:04:27,119
street. There's also a hump and Bettis
crown. Well, there's some there's

1343
02:04:25,360 --> 02:04:31,599
crowning in all the streets to try and
get the water to go to the curbs. So, it

1344
02:04:29,119 --> 02:04:36,080
turns left in this picture that we're
looking at. Yes. Okay. And then it

1345
02:04:33,760 --> 02:04:40,480
crosses the street like right near the
homeowner's front door. Right by the

1346
02:04:38,080 --> 02:04:44,960
front sidewalk and it Okay. So, you're
saying it should go straight across um

1347
02:04:42,800 --> 02:04:50,400
Veil on Bettis and stay in line with the
Bettis curb. Yes. Okay. Stay in the stay

1348
02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:54,719
in the street and and then continue down
to because otherwise right now it's like

1349
02:04:52,400 --> 02:04:58,320
turning north crossing the street and
then turning south again to get back to

1350
02:04:56,320 --> 02:05:02,639
bed. Exactly. At the moment, there's
also a low spot in the picture there,

1351
02:05:00,719 --> 02:05:07,920
right just to the right as we're viewing
it of the mailbox. So, it'll pull there.

1352
02:05:05,119 --> 02:05:11,199
Then later on during the rain event, it
gets to jump the curb. So, it jumps the

1353
02:05:09,599 --> 02:05:15,920
curb and it flows down those people's
front walkway right up to the house and

1354
02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:21,520
and brings all kinds of dirt and debris
that it's deposits in front of their

1355
02:05:18,480 --> 02:05:27,360
house. And we need to get an engineer to
design this for us.

1356
02:05:24,320 --> 02:05:31,840
We when we are doing the repaving, it
would be best to take care of this

1357
02:05:29,360 --> 02:05:37,000
before we do the repaving or in
conjunction with repaving. But we need

1358
02:05:34,239 --> 02:05:42,000
to we need to address this drainage
issue. Um my question is how do we

1359
02:05:40,239 --> 02:05:45,920
address it? Do we do it by hire
authorizing the city to engage the

1360
02:05:43,760 --> 02:05:49,520
engineering firm to design a gutter? Is
that what we the first step?

1361
02:05:48,080 --> 02:05:54,719
I would think that that would I would
think so. Yes, sir. Or

1362
02:05:51,480 --> 02:05:58,080
or a diversionary structure or whatever
they recommend. Doesn't necessarily have

1363
02:05:56,080 --> 02:06:04,320
to be a valley. A valley gutter would
make sense. It would also provide um

1364
02:06:01,199 --> 02:06:08,320
traffic calming that people go ripping
down that street. What is a valley? It's

1365
02:06:06,159 --> 02:06:12,239
a concrete swale they put in the middle
of the paving or crosses the road.

1366
02:06:10,159 --> 02:06:17,840
Sometimes called a pilot channel like
old V of concrete. Okay. Wow. Surface.

1367
02:06:15,520 --> 02:06:25,679
It's just a dip. Just a little concrete
dip. Yeah. Instead of a speed bump. And

1368
02:06:20,280 --> 02:06:30,400
this would go take the water from
Bettis across Veil. Yeah. Yes. Just to

1369
02:06:28,400 --> 02:06:34,560
keep it going straight down and not
curving around and then coming across

1370
02:06:32,400 --> 02:06:38,079
towards there. Well, I make a motion we
authorize the city to engage the

1371
02:06:36,239 --> 02:06:43,560
engineers to study drainage solutions
for this problem at Bettison Veil to be

1372
02:06:41,199 --> 02:06:47,760
built in connection with our repaving.
Second.

1373
02:06:45,119 --> 02:06:53,480
That's great. Um, the other potential
would be to do a a um

1374
02:06:54,159 --> 02:07:01,400
not talk that much tonight. No, you're
doing great. I have no complaints.

1375
02:06:58,000 --> 02:07:07,840
You're doing a great job.
Um, you could also do a speed bump,

1376
02:07:04,320 --> 02:07:12,320
which I think is not as well preferred
by the emergency responders, but but

1377
02:07:10,800 --> 02:07:18,159
something we just need something that
keeps the water going straight across

1378
02:07:14,400 --> 02:07:23,040
and not around the corner. The comments
that were submitted to are across the

1379
02:07:21,360 --> 02:07:29,119
street from this. So clearly we don't
want to make the water go across

1380
02:07:26,840 --> 02:07:36,800
Bettis to the other side of the street,
but we just need it right to not go into

1381
02:07:33,199 --> 02:07:42,480
their front door. And just in a little
history note, I was going through some

1382
02:07:40,000 --> 02:07:49,440
boxes of Rollingwood files and I came
across a um memo. Was it 2006? Something

1383
02:07:48,000 --> 02:07:53,119
like that, I think. So it was even
before I was on council. So clearly we

1384
02:07:51,199 --> 02:07:57,599
got a copy of this memo when we were
talking something after I got on

1385
02:07:54,760 --> 02:08:02,560
council, but this property was
identified as a problem for the drainage

1386
02:08:00,480 --> 02:08:08,560
in 2006. So it's been a really long time
that this has been

1387
02:08:04,800 --> 02:08:12,000
um an issue, the 305 property. Yes.
Okay.

1388
02:08:09,560 --> 02:08:16,159
Yeah. Not not the same house, but the
previous house had problems as well just

1389
02:08:14,560 --> 02:08:21,280
because of the lot and the way the
street is graded. So

1390
02:08:18,960 --> 02:08:27,480
Okay.
Okay. We have a motion in a second. Um,

1391
02:08:24,079 --> 02:08:34,560
any further discussion? Well, the
discussion to the comments that were

1392
02:08:30,440 --> 02:08:39,400
submitted having having it go continue
down bed is which I think is what we're

1393
02:08:37,920 --> 02:08:44,560
thinking. The
engineers the engineers will determine

1394
02:08:41,920 --> 02:08:48,800
how best to deal with the water flow.
Correct. Right. Right. So it may be

1395
02:08:46,800 --> 02:08:54,079
going straight down bed, maybe something
else. Okay, that's all. I just didn't I

1396
02:08:51,599 --> 02:08:58,119
do want to take into consideration the
getting out of the driveway issue that

1397
02:08:56,239 --> 02:09:03,520
was brought up by the
comments.

1398
02:08:59,880 --> 02:09:07,280
So but
yeah, that's it. Well, we have no

1399
02:09:05,760 --> 02:09:13,119
control over the volume of water that
comes down. I understand that. Yeah, we

1400
02:09:09,679 --> 02:09:13,119
just want to make sure that it doesn't

1401
02:09:16,280 --> 02:09:26,079
go or is this just one of se? We can't
help that. That's in one seven. It's one

1402
02:09:22,960 --> 02:09:33,679
right now. It's one right now. Yeah. And
when you talk to Tom Farah, he'll often

1403
02:09:29,599 --> 02:09:37,280
be um when you talk to Tom, he'll often
talk about when we we talk about

1404
02:09:36,000 --> 02:09:42,360
drainage problems, he'll say, "Well,
there's really only about five houses or

1405
02:09:40,000 --> 02:09:46,400
lots here that have really
problem with

1406
02:09:44,199 --> 02:09:50,639
drainage in the kind that I think that
what you're describing. And I'm

1407
02:09:48,400 --> 02:09:54,480
wondering if there are other addresses
here that if we were gonna if you're

1408
02:09:52,880 --> 02:09:59,840
going to do something with one, if you
want to look at more than one, it might

1409
02:09:56,639 --> 02:10:02,480
be worth I'll ask Tom what those other
places are.

1410
02:10:02,960 --> 02:10:07,760
I mean, if there are other problems we
can do and one of the problems I have

1411
02:10:05,840 --> 02:10:12,079
with like just city government in
general is we get one problem, we try to

1412
02:10:09,679 --> 02:10:16,880
solve it and then we want to scale it up
and solve five other problems at the

1413
02:10:14,880 --> 02:10:23,119
same time and then nothing ever gets
done and it's just it's very

1414
02:10:21,079 --> 02:10:26,239
frustrating doing drainage projects
right now to address drainage issues

1415
02:10:24,880 --> 02:10:30,960
that we have in other places. That's
right. Well, I'm only taking off of

1416
02:10:29,360 --> 02:10:35,040
your, you know, following your lead and
that you know that things are going to

1417
02:10:32,800 --> 02:10:38,320
get repaved here pretty soon and if you
were going to do something, this is the

1418
02:10:36,560 --> 02:10:41,840
time to do it. It's a good point. That's
all just that like just ask the

1419
02:10:40,480 --> 02:10:45,560
question, is there anything else out
there that you want to do?

1420
02:10:46,159 --> 02:10:53,760
We can we can certainly look and if
anybody has any other issue, you know,

1421
02:10:51,040 --> 02:11:00,400
we could fix the one at the end of Nixon
that should have the here been properly

1422
02:10:57,199 --> 02:11:04,520
installed also, but the way I would cut
this

1423
02:11:01,239 --> 02:11:10,199
is this can be fixed with
paving. We have a whole drainage study

1424
02:11:08,320 --> 02:11:16,239
that identifies and
prioritizes our other drainage issues.

1425
02:11:13,280 --> 02:11:21,199
And if there is another drainage issue
that can be fixed while we're doing the

1426
02:11:18,239 --> 02:11:28,719
repaving and it we know about it, let's
do it. But uh I would not, you know, I

1427
02:11:25,520 --> 02:11:34,159
think we if once we get into bigger
drainage, we need to go back and revisit

1428
02:11:31,119 --> 02:11:38,800
that study and set our priorities and
they're very expensive. So if this can

1429
02:11:37,040 --> 02:11:44,400
be done with repaving, I think we just
stick with is this a repaving issue?

1430
02:11:42,079 --> 02:11:47,760
Yeah. To my knowledge in my short tenure
here, there are two places in the city

1431
02:11:46,320 --> 02:11:51,119
that don't appear to be addressed by the
drainage work we're doing at the moment.

1432
02:11:49,119 --> 02:11:57,280
This being one of them. The other one is
at 4824 Rollingwood Drive, I believe.

1433
02:11:53,760 --> 02:12:02,159
Miss Shaw, and there's a a water like a
storm drain inlet by her home that we're

1434
02:11:58,960 --> 02:12:05,920
trying to unclog the uh there's an
unusual arrangement of some sort of

1435
02:12:03,840 --> 02:12:10,560
system on the one side. We're trying to
unclog the pipe between those. So that

1436
02:12:08,719 --> 02:12:14,880
if that doesn't work for her as the
solution, that might be a more

1437
02:12:12,040 --> 02:12:18,639
expensive, most certainly not covered by
repaving. But those are the only two

1438
02:12:16,639 --> 02:12:22,480
that I'm aware of at the moment. And so
once once we try to unclog that pipe,

1439
02:12:20,480 --> 02:12:26,000
which is he's been working on getting
like renting the right equipment for it,

1440
02:12:24,239 --> 02:12:30,239
then we'll know more about her issue.
But I think that's the only other one I

1441
02:12:27,520 --> 02:12:34,360
know about. This is the one that's I
think the easiest for us to fix.

1442
02:12:35,840 --> 02:12:44,000
Okay.
Any further discussion? No. All those in

1443
02:12:40,159 --> 02:12:47,360
favor say I. I. Post say nay. All right.
Motion passes five to

1444
02:12:48,520 --> 02:12:58,159
nothing. Going to agenda item number
15. Um discussion possible action to

1445
02:12:55,280 --> 02:13:02,560
clarify allowable times for construction
activities including defining activities

1446
02:13:02,920 --> 02:13:09,040
impacted. And this one again got changed
a little bit. I was just saying

1447
02:13:07,360 --> 02:13:14,079
including defining the activities that
are impacted and I had put in

1448
02:13:11,520 --> 02:13:20,960
parentheses to include things such as
construction, landscaping, utility work

1449
02:13:16,079 --> 02:13:24,239
and tree trimming. So Google Fiber has
been

1450
02:13:21,960 --> 02:13:30,639
working for a while. They were working
seven days a week. Um I complained to

1451
02:13:28,000 --> 02:13:34,639
the mayor when I had somebody outside my
house at 8 o'clock on Sunday morning

1452
02:13:32,480 --> 02:13:39,079
making this noise and I said, "Really?
We're letting them work every day. This

1453
02:13:37,360 --> 02:13:44,280
is really noisy. We
need how how is it they are working on

1454
02:13:42,079 --> 02:13:51,400
Sundays
um and Saturdays because our code right

1455
02:13:47,920 --> 02:13:55,599
now talks about construction hours for
construction which are only allowed from

1456
02:13:54,079 --> 02:14:01,440
7:00 in the morning to 7:00 at night
Monday through Friday and then indoor

1457
02:13:58,400 --> 02:14:09,560
finish work from 10 to 4 on Saturday and
no construction work on Sundays or city

1458
02:14:05,560 --> 02:14:13,400
holidays. So we have other
activities. First of all, I couldn't

1459
02:14:11,440 --> 02:14:20,599
find a definition of construction in our
code. So what all is included? And then

1460
02:14:18,480 --> 02:14:25,480
after that,
um, is landscaping. But somebody mowing

1461
02:14:24,719 --> 02:14:29,119
their
yard, you know, people are going to do

1462
02:14:27,440 --> 02:14:33,679
that on the weekends. I'm not I'm not
worried about that. somebody installing

1463
02:14:31,520 --> 02:14:38,040
landscaping where you've got back hose
and you know big heavy equipment and

1464
02:14:35,920 --> 02:14:44,400
stuff. Is that allowed on the
weekends? Um

1465
02:14:41,280 --> 02:14:51,920
utility work which is what the case is
for Google Fiber. Um apparently they had

1466
02:14:49,040 --> 02:14:56,800
been given authority to work on weekends
and then we had enough people

1467
02:14:54,159 --> 02:15:02,480
complaining I think that Gavin told them
you know lay off on Sundays. Um, and

1468
02:15:00,239 --> 02:15:09,520
I've also not tree trimming work. That's
also very noisy when you have a crew out

1469
02:15:06,599 --> 02:15:16,239
there with tree trimming and, you know,
big chippers and all of that stuff. So,

1470
02:15:13,199 --> 02:15:21,119
people don't know exactly what's allowed
and what's not. And so, they don't know

1471
02:15:18,960 --> 02:15:23,920
when to call the police and complain
because they don't know if they just

1472
02:15:22,560 --> 02:15:28,360
have to suck it up and deal with this
because, you know, it's just allowed to

1473
02:15:25,760 --> 02:15:34,159
happen. Um, and we don't have good
definition on

1474
02:15:30,119 --> 02:15:38,400
on what is construction. Um, is it just
when you have a contractor there or is

1475
02:15:36,480 --> 02:15:42,079
it, you know, I don't think we want to
restrict something that a homeowner is

1476
02:15:39,840 --> 02:15:45,800
doing on their own home. Um, if that
even still happens anymore,

1477
02:15:47,119 --> 02:15:55,520
whatever. But, but we don't have we
don't have any um we don't have any

1478
02:15:52,400 --> 02:16:00,239
definition on that. And so, and just
kind of our guideline that we've always

1479
02:15:57,679 --> 02:16:05,320
used is that if that um property is
under a permit, um so if they're putting

1480
02:16:03,360 --> 02:16:11,440
in landscaping onto a home that's not
occupied, we don't allow that. Um but if

1481
02:16:08,880 --> 02:16:15,920
it's a homeowner who has a yard company
that's mowing their yard, we've never um

1482
02:16:14,480 --> 02:16:19,760
we we've always allowed that to take
place. But what if there is an occupied

1483
02:16:18,000 --> 02:16:23,040
house that is having a big landscaping
project done? They don't have a permit

1484
02:16:21,440 --> 02:16:27,040
for that because we don't have a
landscaping permit. Correct. And so we

1485
02:16:25,679 --> 02:16:32,479
have allowed that because it falls under
landscaping and landscaping is not part

1486
02:16:29,199 --> 02:16:36,679
of the construction site. So that this
to me is another one of those things

1487
02:16:34,240 --> 02:16:45,040
that I think that we need
to mle over, get some input from P&Z and

1488
02:16:40,880 --> 02:16:48,280
see if there is any um any input and if
we need to make any adjustments to our

1489
02:16:46,800 --> 02:16:53,240
code to
clarify when and

1490
02:16:51,599 --> 02:17:00,240
um and
also for us to decide what we think is

1491
02:16:56,639 --> 02:17:04,120
appropriate because right now the the
mayor is allowed to

1492
02:17:04,160 --> 02:17:14,000
um allow the utility companies to work
whenever and

1493
02:17:11,160 --> 02:17:17,960
um I personally don't like that idea.
It's like you kind of have to have one

1494
02:17:15,519 --> 02:17:24,080
day a week where it's
quiet. Um but we don't we don't have any

1495
02:17:21,280 --> 02:17:28,880
restrictions on that. So, um, because
that is up to the discretion of the

1496
02:17:25,519 --> 02:17:32,679
mayor and you know, if it's a oneoff,
that's one thing, but if it's like every

1497
02:17:30,880 --> 02:17:39,840
Sunday
for months, that gets really old. So,

1498
02:17:37,559 --> 02:17:43,920
anyway, I just wanted to bring this up
for people to think about and then also

1499
02:17:41,760 --> 02:17:49,719
I think this would be a good one to send
to PMZ for them to provide some input

1500
02:17:47,160 --> 02:17:54,880
on.
Um, I took a look at this.

1501
02:17:55,080 --> 02:18:04,439
Um, construction, the term
construction's used 171 times in the

1502
02:18:01,240 --> 02:18:11,040
code in lots of different
situations. Uh, there is a provision

1503
02:18:08,240 --> 02:18:17,639
there is a section that addresses work
done on weekends. Okay.

1504
02:18:13,519 --> 02:18:25,080
uh and uh
101-247 it has an exception for minor

1505
02:18:22,439 --> 02:18:33,359
construction that
um uh is defined as

1506
02:18:30,439 --> 02:18:37,920
um maintenance and repair work normally
associated with home or business

1507
02:18:35,359 --> 02:18:43,679
ownership and occupancy. Minor
construction and demolition associated

1508
02:18:40,479 --> 02:18:48,719
with normally associated with home or
business ownership and occupancy,

1509
02:18:46,080 --> 02:18:53,760
landscaping, mowing, fencing, painting,
provided that no such activity creates a

1510
02:18:50,960 --> 02:18:57,359
nuisance condition related to noise,
traffic, odor, dust, or other conditions

1511
02:18:55,599 --> 02:19:03,080
and is not in violation of any other
city ordinance. I would think that for

1512
02:19:00,479 --> 02:19:09,479
purposes of what you're trying to get
to, you ask PNZ to look at this 101-247F

1513
02:19:10,080 --> 02:19:20,120
and not the 170 other times construction
is used in the code, right?

1514
02:19:17,519 --> 02:19:27,599
So that it can be defined for purposes
of nuisance and noise and

1515
02:19:23,000 --> 02:19:32,319
weekends and then and and
uh we don't

1516
02:19:29,679 --> 02:19:37,040
I think that would if that would address
the concerns you have. Yeah, that that's

1517
02:19:34,319 --> 02:19:41,599
fine. I just when I was reading that
section and it said this is what you can

1518
02:19:39,200 --> 02:19:47,359
do and I couldn't find a definition of
what was included in construction and so

1519
02:19:44,559 --> 02:19:52,880
that that was my concern because like I
said, people don't know when when

1520
02:19:50,000 --> 02:19:58,000
they're allowed to complain to the city.
So, I've I when when the Google Fiber

1521
02:19:55,439 --> 02:20:01,040
was out there on Sunday morning, I was
getting texts from neighbors going, "Is

1522
02:19:59,680 --> 02:20:04,080
this okay? Are they allowed to be doing
this? Why are they, you know, and I'm

1523
02:20:02,479 --> 02:20:06,960
going, I don't know. They're not, you
know, not normally supposed to." So,

1524
02:20:05,439 --> 02:20:13,080
which is why I texted Gavin and I said,
"Did we let them do this on Sundays?"

1525
02:20:10,000 --> 02:20:19,120
But I I think we need to have better
clarity so people know what so the

1526
02:20:16,560 --> 02:20:22,160
police know what to enforce. people know
when to call the police because

1527
02:20:20,640 --> 02:20:27,600
somebody's doing something they're not
supposed to and that you know we have a

1528
02:20:25,120 --> 02:20:32,600
right reasonable I know another issue
that we've always had too is sometimes

1529
02:20:29,359 --> 02:20:38,160
on Saturdays uh roof repair that
requires the use of tools but it's home

1530
02:20:36,160 --> 02:20:42,720
ownership too right so that's so we've
always allowed it to happen because it's

1531
02:20:40,000 --> 02:20:47,160
home ownership and homeowner repair so
um it's kind of but it does fall under

1532
02:20:45,680 --> 02:20:52,160
that the noise
where That's a That's a good one to

1533
02:20:49,680 --> 02:20:52,160
consider

1534
02:20:53,160 --> 02:21:01,600
also.
Okay, we need motion on that. Are we

1535
02:20:58,080 --> 02:21:08,680
good for adding that to
see this docket?

1536
02:21:04,080 --> 02:21:08,680
I think we can add it too. All right.

1537
02:21:11,600 --> 02:21:19,840
All right. So, agenda item number 16.
Um this

1538
02:21:25,080 --> 02:21:31,280
is discussion of possible action to
clarify the definitions of impervious

1539
02:21:29,600 --> 02:21:36,439
cover in various locations in the
drainage criteria manual and the city's

1540
02:21:33,120 --> 02:21:36,439
code of ordinances.

1541
02:21:36,840 --> 02:21:46,080
So we
have a unique situation where we have

1542
02:21:44,240 --> 02:21:52,760
definitions of impervious cover in at
least three places that I found in the

1543
02:21:48,960 --> 02:22:00,800
code and then the drainage criteria
manual has a method of calculating

1544
02:21:56,800 --> 02:22:06,359
imperous cover that is different from
the other definitions where in that case

1545
02:22:03,280 --> 02:22:13,000
you are you are allowed to exempt or not
include this the horizontal area surface

1546
02:22:11,040 --> 02:22:17,040
area of a swimming
pool which a swimming pool is by

1547
02:22:15,439 --> 02:22:21,439
definition impervious cover because
that's the whole point of a swimming

1548
02:22:18,720 --> 02:22:26,960
pool is not to allow the water to drain
into the ground. Right? So it is clearly

1549
02:22:24,479 --> 02:22:30,200
impervious cover but for the calculation
of that

1550
02:22:30,280 --> 02:22:37,120
um total area of imperous cover that is
exempted in the drainage criteria

1551
02:22:34,960 --> 02:22:45,840
manual. When the drainage criteria
manual was prepared it was intended to

1552
02:22:42,359 --> 02:22:50,080
address residential issues
um which residential issues do not have

1553
02:22:48,240 --> 02:22:53,840
there is no impervious cover limit in
the residential area. The only reason

1554
02:22:52,240 --> 02:22:57,520
you have to calculate the impervious
cover in the residential area is to

1555
02:22:56,080 --> 02:23:02,520
determine whether or not you have to do
a water pollution um abatement plan

1556
02:23:00,479 --> 02:23:09,600
under the TCQ
rules which is a 20% if you're above 20%

1557
02:23:07,040 --> 02:23:13,439
impervious cover on a lot you have to do
um the water pollution abatement

1558
02:23:13,640 --> 02:23:22,000
plane commercial properties have a
impervious cover limit but and I didn't

1559
02:23:20,479 --> 02:23:24,920
look this up again But I'm pretty sure
that commercial properties are not

1560
02:23:23,359 --> 02:23:30,080
allowed to have a swimming
pool.

1561
02:23:26,760 --> 02:23:35,840
So the the exemption of that from the
calculation is not issued for commercial

1562
02:23:33,160 --> 02:23:42,319
properties. So the only place that has
both an impur cover limit and the

1563
02:23:38,240 --> 02:23:48,840
potential for a swimming pool is western
hills or park zone. So, park zone has a

1564
02:23:45,600 --> 02:23:57,479
50% impervious cover limit
and the park zone includes our park and

1565
02:23:53,439 --> 02:24:02,880
the Western Hills Athletic Club. So,
they are supposed to meet the 50%

1566
02:23:59,920 --> 02:24:07,399
impervious cover limit, but the way it
was

1567
02:24:03,640 --> 02:24:12,760
interpreted in their um
plans, at least this last time they

1568
02:24:10,319 --> 02:24:20,240
brought the plans in, is that they they
excluded the swimming pool um area

1569
02:24:16,880 --> 02:24:27,040
because of this inclusion in the
drainage criteria manual, which was not

1570
02:24:23,120 --> 02:24:27,040
intended to be

1571
02:24:27,880 --> 02:24:39,680
Um it was not intended to exempt
um allowable impervious

1572
02:24:36,439 --> 02:24:47,920
cover. Anyway, we need to clarify it so
that it is clear going forward that that

1573
02:24:44,319 --> 02:24:54,560
the exemption for the imperous cover
area of a swimming pool is only excluded

1574
02:24:51,920 --> 02:24:59,200
from the calculation of imperous cover
as it relates to the need for a water

1575
02:24:56,560 --> 02:25:05,120
pollution abatement plant.
Relates to I say the last part is it

1576
02:25:02,000 --> 02:25:09,600
relates to the the calculation of
imperous cover. um in determining

1577
02:25:08,319 --> 02:25:13,880
whether or not you have to do a water
pollution abatement plan.

1578
02:25:17,600 --> 02:25:20,560
Yes. Um

1579
02:25:21,960 --> 02:25:29,200
um the reason why swimming pools are
excluded from imperous cover

1580
02:25:27,200 --> 02:25:33,280
calculations or why they're not
considered whenever you're doing you

1581
02:25:30,880 --> 02:25:37,439
know working out your impervious cover
requirements is because whenever it

1582
02:25:35,359 --> 02:25:42,200
rains on a swimming pool swimming pool
fills up and then it drains off through

1583
02:25:39,760 --> 02:25:50,160
some other means other than
runoff. So pools pool well pools are

1584
02:25:46,800 --> 02:25:54,479
constant level and so you know if
there's a drainage system on the pool if

1585
02:25:52,240 --> 02:25:59,520
it's an ingground pool then it
automatically felt takes care of itself.

1586
02:25:56,800 --> 02:26:04,920
You don't see pools running over during
the rain. They always dispose in the

1587
02:26:01,840 --> 02:26:11,120
regular sewer system.
Um, now if if if you want more clarity

1588
02:26:08,960 --> 02:26:14,720
around that or requirements that like an
ingground pool needs to have drainage to

1589
02:26:13,280 --> 02:26:18,439
accommodate that, then you can talk
about whether or not needs to be

1590
02:26:16,479 --> 02:26:22,640
excluded from an impervious cover
calculation and maybe that's what you

1591
02:26:20,399 --> 02:26:30,000
want. I don't know, but there is a
reason why pools are out of it. I I

1592
02:26:25,600 --> 02:26:35,120
understand that. Okay. But there is I I
understand your your comments. There are

1593
02:26:32,880 --> 02:26:40,319
also other reasons for having impervious
cover limits. We're over the recharge

1594
02:26:37,120 --> 02:26:47,760
zone of the Edwards aquifer and so we
want to have make sure that there is um

1595
02:26:44,399 --> 02:26:58,000
adequate recharge for the the the
aquifer um more green space more um you

1596
02:26:52,960 --> 02:27:03,040
know less concrete right so it's the
reason that that area is excluded from

1597
02:27:00,720 --> 02:27:09,319
the calculation for a water pollution
abatement plan is because the TCQ rules

1598
02:27:06,080 --> 02:27:16,960
are designed to address water
quality and which is primarily um

1599
02:27:14,120 --> 02:27:23,120
solids, you know, runoff of of solids
contaminating the the

1600
02:27:19,319 --> 02:27:27,200
wershed. And if the water is falling
into a swimming pool, if it's washing

1601
02:27:25,200 --> 02:27:30,720
anything into the swimming pool, that's
going to settle out in the pool and it's

1602
02:27:28,640 --> 02:27:37,280
not going to be carried off. So
different purpose for the impervious

1603
02:27:33,680 --> 02:27:43,760
cover limit in in that particular case
than from a

1604
02:27:40,439 --> 02:27:48,960
um you know a recharge issue or
something

1605
02:27:45,000 --> 02:27:53,760
else. And and we have a like I said the
park zone area is the only place where

1606
02:27:52,080 --> 02:27:58,000
we have both the potential to have a
swimming pool and have an impervious

1607
02:27:55,359 --> 02:28:03,600
cover limit. And so we just need to make
sure that we

1608
02:28:00,000 --> 02:28:03,600
clarify that. Include that going

1609
02:28:11,720 --> 02:28:20,160
forward. So the drainage criteria manual
is not zoning code,

1610
02:28:17,080 --> 02:28:23,720
right? So this doesn't require public
hearing or PNZ.

1611
02:28:32,399 --> 02:28:36,080
But we could make this change

1612
02:28:37,479 --> 02:28:40,960
without having to

1613
02:28:41,800 --> 02:28:48,800
go through PNZ or with
um public

1614
02:28:49,960 --> 02:28:52,960
hearing.

1615
02:29:14,280 --> 02:29:23,040
Actually, the definition in
the drainage criteria manual of

1616
02:29:20,080 --> 02:29:26,880
impervious cover says means impermeable
constructed or installed coverage of

1617
02:29:24,560 --> 02:29:32,000
natural ground surfaces and includes
only the the footprint on a horizontal

1618
02:29:30,000 --> 02:29:36,640
plane. Vertical walls are not included.
So that part that definition doesn't

1619
02:29:33,840 --> 02:29:40,560
even exclude the swimming pool in the
drainage criteria manual. It's just in

1620
02:29:39,200 --> 02:29:43,560
the section where you're actually
calculating the impervious cover which

1621
02:29:42,560 --> 02:29:47,560
is
in 7.2.1H.

1622
02:29:59,520 --> 02:30:06,399
very last sentence of that where it says
water surface area of swimming pools are

1623
02:30:03,840 --> 02:30:12,000
not considered impervious cover that's
in the drainage manual.

1624
02:30:08,960 --> 02:30:16,080
Do you I would recommend maybe bring
this back at next meeting with that

1625
02:30:13,760 --> 02:30:20,920
language and a recommendation on on
changing Yeah. Okay. That would be what

1626
02:30:19,439 --> 02:30:24,479
I would
recommend. I can do

1627
02:30:27,080 --> 02:30:36,120
that. All right. And we can no further
action on this

1628
02:30:33,720 --> 02:30:40,520
one.
Um, agenda item

1629
02:30:38,520 --> 02:30:44,960
17.
Chief, this is discussion and possible

1630
02:30:43,040 --> 02:30:49,359
action on the purchase of up to five
license plate readers in an amount

1631
02:30:46,800 --> 02:30:55,520
thought to exceed $15,000 to monitor
roadways entering rolling.

1632
02:30:52,960 --> 02:31:01,280
Correct. So, just to update you guys on
uh that current project is that I have

1633
02:30:57,680 --> 02:31:06,080
spoken with Flock um and we and also
have spoken to other chiefs too to see

1634
02:31:03,120 --> 02:31:11,439
how they're handling any type of PS and
things that are happening. And so it

1635
02:31:08,920 --> 02:31:16,800
really kind of came to a head where it
was determined that so flock is the

1636
02:31:13,439 --> 02:31:23,439
actual the guardian of the record and it
just to clarify is it is a license plate

1637
02:31:20,479 --> 02:31:27,359
reader. It does not identify any type of
person who's inside the vehicle. So we

1638
02:31:25,920 --> 02:31:31,280
don't have any issue with like any
racial

1639
02:31:28,280 --> 02:31:38,720
profiling and it only captures that that
vehicle information. Um, so in order for

1640
02:31:35,760 --> 02:31:42,760
it to become ours for that PIR, it was
we would have to pull the data from

1641
02:31:41,280 --> 02:31:47,600
their
portal. And so when that data is being

1642
02:31:45,920 --> 02:31:52,479
pulled from their portal is now being
used as an investigative purpose. That's

1643
02:31:49,760 --> 02:31:58,000
the only way we we access it. Our our
policy would set out the parameters

1644
02:31:55,200 --> 02:32:05,840
um that we just can't pull data just to
pull data. And so I think that's how we

1645
02:32:02,399 --> 02:32:10,640
stay in line as far as the PI stuff
goes. And when I spoke with other area

1646
02:32:08,160 --> 02:32:15,920
chiefs, they don't have any issues as
far as um the P stuff goes. I know

1647
02:32:13,359 --> 02:32:22,960
that's the main major hurdle that we're
dealing with or that we're trying to get

1648
02:32:17,840 --> 02:32:27,200
through. Um, but it's I kind of I was
talking to the city administrator and

1649
02:32:25,520 --> 02:32:31,920
kind of referenced it to kind of like
the TET system that we use to run your

1650
02:32:30,080 --> 02:32:34,840
driver's license, run your vehicle
information.

1651
02:32:33,600 --> 02:32:41,359
It's owned by
DPS. We have to, you know, we request it

1652
02:32:38,560 --> 02:32:45,040
and it has to be within perimeters only
for investigative purposes. We can't

1653
02:32:43,359 --> 02:32:49,120
just run people's driver's licenses to
run them and and things like that. So

1654
02:32:47,040 --> 02:32:55,080
this is kind of the same situation to
where but like I said our policy would

1655
02:32:51,280 --> 02:33:02,720
also set place to be able to safeguard
um and create to where like a punishable

1656
02:32:59,760 --> 02:33:09,439
um parameter too if if somebody was
doing that outside of our policy. So um

1657
02:33:06,000 --> 02:33:15,840
like I said I think that helps. Um,
right now we do have it mapped out that

1658
02:33:11,760 --> 02:33:20,120
we do have five cameras. Um, one being
eastbound

1659
02:33:17,160 --> 02:33:25,640
Los, one being westbound on
Veil, one being northbound

1660
02:33:23,200 --> 02:33:34,280
um at Edge
Grove, eastbound at Hatley and and Park

1661
02:33:30,240 --> 02:33:39,920
Hills, and then one at southbound uh
Riley. And so that's just and also I

1662
02:33:38,479 --> 02:33:44,640
want to let you know that there we do
have a grant opportunity out right now

1663
02:33:42,880 --> 02:33:48,160
um that could possibly and the way I'm
looking at the grant is if we want to

1664
02:33:46,319 --> 02:33:53,920
move forward at possibly applying with
the grant. It does cover the license

1665
02:33:51,040 --> 02:33:59,439
plates or it would cover our project at
80% we would be responsible for

1666
02:33:56,439 --> 02:34:03,680
20%. And that would be for a year. And
so I kind of looked at it as is this

1667
02:34:01,359 --> 02:34:09,439
something that we can trial run these
cameras for the year at that 20% rate to

1668
02:34:07,120 --> 02:34:14,240
see if this is something that that we're
interested in that that we're finding to

1669
02:34:11,760 --> 02:34:19,120
be useful. And if it's not, then we pull
the cameras at that at the year or we

1670
02:34:16,880 --> 02:34:25,120
continue them. But I think it'll give us
a good opportunity to see if this is

1671
02:34:22,399 --> 02:34:28,080
something that works for the city. Um,
and then but like I said, I think we've

1672
02:34:26,720 --> 02:34:32,880
also worked through some of those
back-end hiccups that that were kind of

1673
02:34:30,319 --> 02:34:38,800
coming up. And the other thing that I do
did talk to Flock about and kind of

1674
02:34:34,720 --> 02:34:44,319
proposed is that if there are con more
questions that the council does have as

1675
02:34:41,439 --> 02:34:50,399
far as like the privacy and and things
about the camera, we can create a kind

1676
02:34:47,120 --> 02:34:55,520
of like a work meeting. And I've uh
spoke with council member Brown as far

1677
02:34:52,399 --> 02:35:01,760
as our police liaison and also with uh
city legal and a flock representative

1678
02:34:58,399 --> 02:35:07,280
would be uh present too. That way we can
iron out any issues that we possibly

1679
02:35:04,040 --> 02:35:13,040
have. So I said we're kind of just
filling it out see how we would like to

1680
02:35:09,840 --> 02:35:16,880
proceed. Um like I said I I think it's
in our best interest to to go ahead and

1681
02:35:15,200 --> 02:35:21,640
apply for the grant. If we decide to
move on the grant, then we do. And then

1682
02:35:19,200 --> 02:35:27,280
if but if we don't, we we don't have
to. But I think it it probably is best

1683
02:35:24,399 --> 02:35:35,040
for us to secure that opportunity.
Who's providing the grant? Uh Texas DMV.

1684
02:35:30,720 --> 02:35:40,160
Oh, and it's based off of off catalytic
converter crime. And and I did talk to

1685
02:35:37,600 --> 02:35:45,040
Flock. I said, "We don't we've only had
one here. I think maybe two." I said,

1686
02:35:43,280 --> 02:35:48,720
"So we don't have much of that." And and
they I I was going to say I know yours

1687
02:35:46,880 --> 02:35:56,960
and then I know I had another one up in
in the um um so but they're seeing a

1688
02:35:54,080 --> 02:36:02,280
high approval rate on this grant. So um
like I said I believe that it's in our

1689
02:35:58,479 --> 02:36:10,160
best interest to to
try a map of those locations. I do say

1690
02:36:07,680 --> 02:36:16,800
is is five enough to cover all of our
entrances? So, so that's kind of the

1691
02:36:12,800 --> 02:36:22,880
thing is we did so we actually have more
mapped out than the five um to catch it

1692
02:36:20,880 --> 02:36:26,760
going east and west if we did decide to
go that route. I'm also going to provide

1693
02:36:24,800 --> 02:36:31,680
you like
a some other information from block that

1694
02:36:29,840 --> 02:36:38,880
they did send me today to kind of get to
you guys. Um and then that way you can

1695
02:36:35,359 --> 02:36:46,399
kind of reference those too. Um the
other thing that is A possibility is is

1696
02:36:43,040 --> 02:36:52,160
also a 360 camera which would create
live feeding for the

1697
02:36:49,720 --> 02:36:57,880
park. That is also something that we
want to um put onto as well.

1698
02:37:00,560 --> 02:37:09,840
Go ahead. Uh what kind of feedback do
you get from the other uh chiefs about

1699
02:37:05,920 --> 02:37:15,280
how useful the information is? If you
everybody's adding to their actual Flock

1700
02:37:12,359 --> 02:37:20,880
system. So, nobody has pulled cameras or
just adding more to them. Um, there also

1701
02:37:18,160 --> 02:37:25,280
is a transparency portal through Flock
that anybody can access. We were

1702
02:37:23,040 --> 02:37:32,800
actually looking at some data today. Um,
tells you how many vehicles um pass the

1703
02:37:27,760 --> 02:37:38,560
cameras, how many hits that that were um
from the cameras, who though that data

1704
02:37:35,520 --> 02:37:44,000
is shared with as far as other agencies.
So it actually like I said it provides

1705
02:37:40,240 --> 02:37:49,840
some transparency. So um but I I'm not
concerned about any type of

1706
02:37:46,520 --> 02:37:55,399
um like privacy issues or or racial
profiling because like I said that data

1707
02:37:52,080 --> 02:37:55,399
is not collected.

1708
02:37:57,760 --> 02:38:04,240
But the other thing, and I know that you
you were talking about if five is enough

1709
02:38:02,560 --> 02:38:09,840
with this grant, with the fact that we
would only be paying 20%. It would allow

1710
02:38:07,439 --> 02:38:15,040
if we budgeted like the original cost
would have been

1711
02:38:11,240 --> 02:38:20,080
$22,000. Um, but that includes that 360
camera. Um, that would allow us to be

1712
02:38:18,319 --> 02:38:24,640
able to add more cameras and stay under
that $22,000 threshold if that's where

1713
02:38:23,359 --> 02:38:28,479
because like I said, we would only be
paying the 20% for the for the first

1714
02:38:26,960 --> 02:38:34,720
year.
Sounds like a great deal. So, like I

1715
02:38:31,520 --> 02:38:39,040
said, I believe and I think it's a good
opportunity for like I said for us to

1716
02:38:36,240 --> 02:38:42,720
test run these things and um and not
have that big of a cost associated. So,

1717
02:38:41,120 --> 02:38:47,520
all we have to decide tonight is whether
to authorize to apply for the grant.

1718
02:38:44,640 --> 02:38:51,920
Correct. All right. Excellent.
So move move to authorize the police

1719
02:38:50,000 --> 02:38:55,840
department to apply for the grant.
Second.

1720
02:38:53,600 --> 02:39:00,160
Any further discussion?
I I love the police department. I love

1721
02:38:58,240 --> 02:39:04,800
what you guys do in service for me.
There's just something in me that is so

1722
02:39:02,240 --> 02:39:08,640
against this idea. Like it really is
like the privacy thing. I can't get

1723
02:39:06,479 --> 02:39:12,080
over. And some of the discussion about
like, okay, we have some cameras. Well,

1724
02:39:10,399 --> 02:39:14,560
of course the police like them. We'll
have more cameras. We'll have a camera

1725
02:39:13,359 --> 02:39:18,640
in the park. We're going to be like
surrounded by cameras. That's just my

1726
02:39:16,640 --> 02:39:22,080
opinion. Maybe I can change my mind at
some point, but I'm going to have to go

1727
02:39:20,640 --> 02:39:26,479
on. Well, I would point out that both
West Lake Hills and City of Austin have

1728
02:39:24,319 --> 02:39:31,520
these cameras. Exactly. And so you're
driving through them every day. But it's

1729
02:39:28,399 --> 02:39:36,000
not my city, you know. And the benefit
is that if a stolen vehicle enters

1730
02:39:33,920 --> 02:39:40,640
Rollingwood, the police get a real time
alert on that issue. that vehicle will

1731
02:39:39,359 --> 02:39:44,720
probably go through Westlake Hills and
be buy one and probably well they're not

1732
02:39:42,720 --> 02:39:49,200
going to follow it into West Lake I mean
into like what are we going to do with

1733
02:39:46,960 --> 02:39:53,120
it like how effective this is like 10%
like let you solve like 10% and so I

1734
02:39:51,120 --> 02:39:58,160
think that's what we're determining
right and so that's what I'm and that's

1735
02:39:55,120 --> 02:40:02,720
why I am trying to go above and beyond
that way we can get those questions

1736
02:40:00,399 --> 02:40:07,520
answered for you and then that way it'll
kind of I like the test run too for that

1737
02:40:05,359 --> 02:40:13,520
purpose but the other great thing about
them is that if somebody breaks into

1738
02:40:09,840 --> 02:40:18,479
your car, okay, um and and robs your car
out of in the driveway, you might have a

1739
02:40:15,840 --> 02:40:22,000
security v camera that identifies that
car that was that came to your house,

1740
02:40:20,479 --> 02:40:28,399
right? But it's not going to read the
license plate. But you can go to the

1741
02:40:23,760 --> 02:40:32,800
police department and say at 2 am a um I
understand this. I understand like the

1742
02:40:30,560 --> 02:40:37,359
the sales from like that side. I get
that. My side is like different. I'm

1743
02:40:35,439 --> 02:40:41,920
willing to like sacrifice some of the
things like that. Okay, maybe my car

1744
02:40:39,280 --> 02:40:47,120
does get broken into or I lose something
for privacy and personal liberty. Like

1745
02:40:44,800 --> 02:40:53,280
that's just sort of where I I But I
think I the the misconception is is that

1746
02:40:50,880 --> 02:40:58,479
your data is not actually pulled unless
we're actually looking for that and

1747
02:40:56,000 --> 02:41:03,120
you're trusting you're trusting flop and
you're trusting them to like secure the

1748
02:41:00,640 --> 02:41:06,479
data and not do something with it too.
So, I mean, and there's just an ongoing

1749
02:41:05,120 --> 02:41:10,640
cost. This isn't going to be like a
onetime $20,000 deal. It's going to be

1750
02:41:08,960 --> 02:41:15,359
ongoing recurring. You're going to like
end up doing spend money. I mean, I

1751
02:41:13,439 --> 02:41:20,000
don't know. Maybe I can change my mind.
And it sounds like there's enough votes

1752
02:41:17,520 --> 02:41:24,760
here to approve the grant. But I'm like,
you know, to apply for it, but just

1753
02:41:22,399 --> 02:41:30,040
telling you that's where I
stand. Maybe change my mind, but

1754
02:41:30,080 --> 02:41:37,920
yeah. Yeah, one of the things that
brought up as far as like privacy and

1755
02:41:34,880 --> 02:41:42,319
business privacy. You have a telephone.
I understand. But I purchased this. I

1756
02:41:40,000 --> 02:41:46,560
control this. This is my personal thing.
I can decide. I can decide to leave it

1757
02:41:44,080 --> 02:41:51,600
here and go somewhere. Now, what you're
saying is you cannot leave the city of

1758
02:41:49,120 --> 02:41:56,319
Rollingwood without a camera taking a
picture of your license plate. That just

1759
02:41:54,000 --> 02:41:59,319
sounds absurd to me. That's it. Cover it
up.

1760
02:41:59,680 --> 02:42:06,000
Us. that to me like that's not where I
want to live. That's just not where I

1761
02:42:03,840 --> 02:42:10,479
want to live.
I know that's not the toll roads. Good

1762
02:42:08,640 --> 02:42:15,359
lord, they flash you at you every time
you go down there.

1763
02:42:13,280 --> 02:42:19,520
Not right on that. I mean, I understand.
Hey, listen. This is like this is what's

1764
02:42:17,520 --> 02:42:23,680
happening, right? I see that that's the
trend, but I'm not going to personally

1765
02:42:21,760 --> 02:42:27,960
be involved in voting to like continue
that because I just don't think it's

1766
02:42:24,880 --> 02:42:37,439
right. Let's say would
um in terms of aiding police

1767
02:42:32,840 --> 02:42:42,800
apprehension you you're well I'm kind of
how how do you weigh that versus the

1768
02:42:40,640 --> 02:42:48,399
privacy issue?
I mean, personally, I think get out at

1769
02:42:45,600 --> 02:42:53,200
night, maybe try and do do best job that
they can do to like solve some of these

1770
02:42:51,439 --> 02:42:58,399
things using the tools they have, not
having pictures of us leaving every

1771
02:42:56,160 --> 02:43:04,640
single intersection and rolling. I see
one way I could get out of here without

1772
02:43:00,720 --> 02:43:10,479
without being without being like I could
go down. Yeah, you can hike out through

1773
02:43:06,720 --> 02:43:14,640
the nature center. So, yeah, that's just
get an Uber. That's a good way. Well,

1774
02:43:12,960 --> 02:43:17,439
that's true. Well, I was thinking about
that with all the self-driving cars. I

1775
02:43:16,160 --> 02:43:21,240
was like, how much longer is anyone
going to be driving? Actually,

1776
02:43:22,319 --> 02:43:30,640
yeah, that's just let's just Okay. I
just want to kind of get a feel for your

1777
02:43:28,800 --> 02:43:35,520
perspective,
right?

1778
02:43:32,160 --> 02:43:41,000
Okay, Michaela, we have a motion, a
second. Yes.

1779
02:43:37,520 --> 02:43:47,439
Yes. Okay. Any further
discussion? All those in favor say I. I.

1780
02:43:44,319 --> 02:43:52,399
All those opposed say nay. Okay. Motion
passes 4 to

1781
02:43:49,960 --> 02:43:56,000
one. I will say as somebody who had
their catalytic converter stolen

1782
02:43:54,080 --> 02:44:03,040
probably in the middle of the night and
nobody had any pictures of it. So it was

1783
02:43:58,920 --> 02:44:07,600
not it was not caught. So I am not
worried about somebody knowing if I

1784
02:44:04,640 --> 02:44:10,880
leave the neighborhood.
um that I would like to be able to catch

1785
02:44:09,520 --> 02:44:15,279
the people that are doing stuff they
shouldn't be doing.

1786
02:44:12,359 --> 02:44:23,080
So, all right.
Move to Yay. All those in favor? Hi. Hi.