1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:11,040 I think they already decided to do that. Okay. 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:15,240 I was told. Good suggestion. 3 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:18,395 Yeah, it's it's number number four. 4 00:00:16,375 --> 00:00:18,395 » [laughter] 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:26,800 » And the thing we're going to talk about and uh 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,800 the words I have to say. 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:34,880 Yeah, so once you call the It has to be a roll call. 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:43,120 Okay. Um 7:01 9 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:48,400 Thank you. I call the plan Roselle Planning and 10 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:56,160 Zoning Commission to order at 7:01 p.m. Can I get a roll call? 11 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:59,560 I'm Booth. Hi. Lydia Guante. Here. Dennis Johnny. Yeah. 12 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:02,600 Jason Wertz. Terry Wallock. 13 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:08,000 Here. A quorum is present. 14 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:13,240 Can I get a motion to appoint Terry Wallock as chairman for tonight? 15 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:18,800 Chairman pro tem. I move that motion. Second. 16 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:25,360 Okay. All in favor? Hi. Hi. All opposed? Thank you. Um 17 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:31,040 passed. Uh I would like to pro- to amend the prepared agenda tonight to 18 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:38,760 consider PZ 26 1158 before PZ 26 1156. 19 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:43,760 Can I get a motion? Okay. Thank you. All in favor? Hi. Hi. 20 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:50,040 All The motion passes. 21 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,040 We will start with 22 00:01:51,760 --> 00:02:00,200 approving the agenda. Approval of the amended agenda. 23 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:05,080 Uh can I get a motion to approve the prepare uh the amended agenda? I'll move 24 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:10,399 that. Second. I can Okay. Uh all in favor? 25 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:16,040 I. Motion passes. Can I get a motion to approve the 26 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:18,880 minutes from April 7th, 2026? I'll move that. 27 00:02:17,640 --> 00:02:23,600 Second. Second. Okay, thank you. All in favor? 28 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,600 I. 29 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:31,959 Okay. Consideration of petitions. The first 30 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:38,400 item on today's agenda is PZ 26-11-58. Can I get a motion to open the public 31 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,400 hearing for PZ 26-11-58? 32 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:46,560 Second. I get a second. Okay. 33 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,560 I'm moving. 34 00:02:47,026 --> 00:02:51,200 » [laughter] >> Okay, thank you. Who was the first? I'm 35 00:02:49,959 --> 00:02:55,959 sorry. I. Thank you. 36 00:02:52,959 --> 00:03:00,400 Second it was Brian? Yeah. Okay. Roll call, please. Ms. Johnny. 37 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:05,400 Brian Boos. I. Jason Wertz. Yes. Chairman Wallach. I. 38 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:25,440 Hi. So uh today's first case is PZ 11 uh PZ 26-11-58. We're not going for that 39 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:30,360 far back in time. The property is 17 East Maple Avenue. 40 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:37,600 That's a single-family home in the R2 single-family residence district. Um the 41 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:42,840 petitioner is um wants to install a kind of awning or portico over um their front 42 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:48,600 step. Um the the issue is it needs a variance or 43 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:55,960 variation because the house, which was built in 1940, is set back about 24 ft 44 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:59,400 from the front property line. Um the zoning 45 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:04,320 the current zoning ordinance requires 30 ft back um 46 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:11,480 for the zoning district and therefore any awning or portico would stick out 47 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:16,480 about 9 ft into the um the setback um for an awning or portico uh typically 3 48 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:20,480 ft encroachment into that front yard setback is allowed. So this is just kind 49 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:24,720 of a case where the house was built before our current standards. It makes 50 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:27,560 it impossible for the homeowner to meet the current standards regardless of the 51 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,640 size of the awning or portico because even if 52 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,880 it was the smallest awning in the world, it 53 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:39,000 would still encroach into that required front yard setback. Um so in the packet 54 00:04:36,919 --> 00:04:43,400 there are um some pictures of what it will look like. 55 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:46,520 Um again, the goal is to kind of cover that front stoop which sticks out about 56 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:51,440 4 ft. Um and then I know the homeowner wants 57 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:55,919 to do this in conjunction with replacing some windows to do the project all at 58 00:04:52,919 --> 00:05:01,440 the same time. Um I will note that like several homes around there do have 59 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:06,000 covered porches. Um also many of the other houses on that block and around 60 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:10,800 there are also set back closer to the property line than that 30 required ft 61 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:16,040 mostly about the same as the petitioner's home. Um and so it's not 62 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:19,520 like this is a house that's far set forward compared to everything else. The 63 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:23,160 awning would just be set forward a little bit more. 64 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:26,040 Um Any questions? That concludes my report. 65 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:30,360 Anybody have any questions for staff? 66 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:39,240 Are there any members of the public who want to speak? 67 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:52,800 So I'm uh currently a property owner, Wayne Damke. 68 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:57,120 Um Village of Roselle, whatever. Yeah. Please uh Okay. I swear to tell the 69 00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:02,720 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me God, I do. 70 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,880 Please state your name and address for the 71 00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:08,920 » Wayne Damke, 630 Oak Street, Roselle. However, I own some property in the 72 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:12,840 location of this house on Maple. And you guys invited me to the party, 73 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:17,280 and if anybody knows me, if I'm invited to a party, I come. 74 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:20,919 So, thank you for inviting me. Um I I noticed um that that house having an 75 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:25,600 awning in front would really be an enhancement to the property. It would be 76 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:30,160 an enhancement to the area, and anything that, you know, enhances the area is is 77 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:34,560 in my book a good thing for Roselle. Uh she couldn't move the house back 6 or 78 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:38,120 8 ft, you know, to make it happen. So, we're almost like almost have to 79 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:41,760 say, well, this one can't be coded anymore, so what 80 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:45,280 the heck? I mean, but it will look really nice, and uh I'm in total favor 81 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:51,919 of it. I just wanted to come here and say that. Okay. Thank you, sir. 82 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:54,840 Does anybody else in the audience wish to make a statement? 83 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:00,640 Okay. Does the commission have any other 84 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:06,000 questions or statements before we close the public hearing? 85 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,000 Did the petitioner want to say anything? 86 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:12,640 Is Does the petitioner want to say anything? No, I'm good. 87 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:17,640 Okay, great. Um can I get a motion to close the public hearing? 88 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:21,919 So moved. Can I get a second? Second. Okay, great. All right. Roll 89 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:29,240 call, please. Ryan Boose. I. Nemish Johnny. I. Ter- uh 90 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:33,720 Jason Wertz. Yes. Chairman Walock. I. Um the motion the public hearing is 91 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:38,440 closed. Can I get a motion to approve the findings of fact for variance PZ 92 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:40,600 26-11-58? Move that motion. 93 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,280 Second. Can I get a second? 94 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:49,400 Second. Hey, roll call, please. That's okay. 95 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:53,000 Uh Nemish Johnny. Hi. Ryan Boost. Hi. Jason Wertz. 96 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:57,840 » Yes. Chairman Wallach. Hi. So, the variances are good. Can I get a 97 00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:04,040 motion to approve recommend approval to the village board for PZ 26 1158? 98 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:08,000 So moved. Second. 99 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:12,000 Great. Roll call, please. Uh Nemish Johnny. Hi. Ryan Boost. Hi. 100 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,919 Jason Wertz. >> Yes. Chairman Wallach. Hi. 101 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:20,919 The motion passes. Yay. 102 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:25,480 It'll go to the board on 103 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:31,040 May 26th. We'll email you guys. Can I change my vote? 104 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,040 No, you can't change your vote. 105 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,440 Why would you? 106 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:42,680 Okay, so the second item on the agenda tonight is PZ 1156. 107 00:08:40,719 --> 00:08:49,040 Can I get a motion to open the public hearing for PZ 26 1156? 108 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:52,800 So moved. Second. Roll call, please. 109 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:56,440 Ryan Boost. Hi. Jason Wertz. >> Yes. 110 00:08:53,920 --> 00:09:02,640 Uh Lydia Glonsey. Hi. Uh Nemish Johnny. Hi. Chairman Wallach. 111 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:06,120 Hi. Motion passes. Uh Karen, do you want to present? 112 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:12,120 Yes. So, um we continued the public hearing 113 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:15,680 until tonight about um amendments to the sign ordinance. 114 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:20,000 Um Caitlin and I did a bunch more research and tonight I think we're just 115 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:25,320 going to try and wrap up final recommendations for ground signs and 116 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:29,040 wall signs. And then we were not able to complete research for temporary signs, 117 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:33,040 so we'll bring that back to the June meeting. So, we will be having a June 118 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:37,440 meeting. You can imagine what my PowerPoint title 119 00:09:34,839 --> 00:09:42,120 would be for the third meeting. Wait. 120 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:48,196 Well, I think I think it should be revenge of the temporary signs. 121 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:50,216 You know, that kind of sounds great. >> [laughter] 122 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:58,000 » Um All right, so we did um more like 123 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:04,000 comparison research to neighboring property or neighboring communities. Um 124 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:10,600 and we also tried to think about other options that other than what we 125 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,600 presented at the last meeting. 126 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:13,880 Yes. 127 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,720 Oh, and then I made some revisions to the code. 128 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,480 Um There were I wanted to add something 129 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:26,080 about prohibiting sign We already had a section about prohibiting signs on uh 130 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:29,040 vehicles stating they have to be like licensed 131 00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:33,320 and operable. Um so I added semi-trailers, shipping 132 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:37,600 containers, and storage units that those have to all be in 133 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:42,680 have registration tags all in working order and just incidental to the 134 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:45,440 business. So if you're like a contractor or something and you have a 135 00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:49,560 semi-trailer, you can use that you can have your business on it, but you can't 136 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:54,839 just have a semi-trailer parked um to use for advertising. 137 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:59,520 Um added some language about obstructing ingress and egress, ventilation, 138 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:03,280 and other areas necessary for public safety. That's more for like 139 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:09,120 enforcement, um but still very important. Um and then added some 140 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:14,200 description about what types of um landscaping items would be uh suitable 141 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:18,520 in the landscape area so that people don't just put random things. 142 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,800 Shrubs, trees, perennials, grasses, other live ground cover. 143 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:30,600 Um With there also wasn't a section about 144 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:35,200 how to obtain a sign permit, so I added that. That was very important. 145 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:40,000 Um and added some more maintenance language about maintaining signs um for 146 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:43,320 code enforcement. And then right now there's some language in there 147 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:48,320 internally illuminated signs must have an opaque background so that the text or 148 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:53,000 the image or the means of communication are the illuminated portion of the sign. 149 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:58,520 So like not having a busy background or something in the sign to make sure that 150 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,520 it's clear that the sign is the sign. 151 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:07,840 All right. So this chart is also in your packet. 152 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:12,760 Um we had talked a lot about pole signs at 153 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:16,880 our last meeting and whether or not to continue to allow them. 154 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:20,680 Um something internally that we thought of was possibly making pylon signs a 155 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:26,600 special use. Um so this is an additional step that 156 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,600 would be um 157 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:33,000 for a property owner to have a pole sign. However, it allows for 158 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:38,080 case-by-case consideration of each business and each individual property. 159 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:42,839 Um while also encouraging more monument signs where it's possible. 160 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:49,360 Um and it seems somewhat consistent with other communities. Um everybody 161 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:54,040 is either strictly prohibits pole signs or has something similar of requiring it 162 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:58,720 as a special use in either certain districts or on certain streets. 163 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:03,000 Um one thing that I appreciated was 164 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:06,760 Bartlett has um the landscape base shall include a 165 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:12,880 minimum of two conifers among the plant material. I would assume to make it more 166 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:18,839 aesthetically like balanced with like a small pole with the sign on top. If you 167 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:25,680 have like two like smaller arborvitae or something under the sign, 168 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:30,560 it would balance it more. Um so these were this was our idea, 169 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:35,920 hopefully a maybe a compromise of encouraging a more aesthetically 170 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:39,640 pleasing type of sign in town, while also still allowing it for those 171 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:47,080 properties like on Irving where we said it would be difficult for maybe a 172 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:47,080 traditional monument sign to be located. 173 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:55,800 Was the term pylon used last time or is that 174 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:59,200 that that we everything was pole pole pole 175 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,840 pole is what we just got stuck on. Yeah. In terms of 176 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:07,040 » We use them inter-interchangeably. They're still like a it's the 177 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:11,840 width of the structure is much more narrow than the sign itself. 178 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:16,200 Just to be clear like when I'm picturing a pole sign, I'm picturing a pole and 179 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,960 then the sign where I picture a pylon sign, it's a base all the way up. 180 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:25,320 » Pylon is the sign. >> the sign. Yeah. Does this include both? 181 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:30,000 So, they're they're using that they're calling that one a monument sign. Like 182 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:34,200 they're calling that a different If the >> what you're thinking of. But I hear what 183 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:37,800 you're saying. Yeah. 184 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,800 Sure. 185 00:14:38,839 --> 00:14:45,440 I guess I'm having trouble picturing what you're picturing. Uh if if monument 186 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:49,800 is I guess the the the word pylon to me 187 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:54,920 sounds more like monument. And if we have monument covered then This would be 188 00:14:52,240 --> 00:15:00,160 a monument. This would be a pylon. Mhm. And then a pole is obviously 189 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,160 Mhm. 190 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:06,800 Good with >> guys know we're using pole and pylon 191 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:11,160 interchangeably. Yes. Okay. Yes, because they're still much more narrow than the 192 00:15:08,839 --> 00:15:18,080 actual width of the sign. Okay. So, if if the sign itself is on 193 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:25,880 the pole then by definition it's a monument sign. No, that's a pole sign. 194 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:30,160 No, If if if the pole itself is the sign, 195 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:35,200 it is a monument sign. If the There's a sign on top of the pole, 196 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:40,320 it is a pole sign, a pylon sign. A monument is A monument sign is defined 197 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:48,000 in the packet to say that it the sign on top is no less than 80% of the base. 198 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:50,400 So, 100% of the base would be monument 199 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:53,160 » Yes. Okay. Perfect. Thank you. 200 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:57,880 » Okay. Okay. you and I are picturing as a pylon. It's a monument sign. 201 00:15:54,880 --> 00:16:03,320 » is a monument sign. Yeah. Okay. And restrict the special use for the pole 202 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:08,000 signs to be specific to those where a monument sign or would obstruct a view 203 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:12,280 versus somebody just coming in and having a preference 204 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:16,800 of that. Cuz it's it's Irving specifically the 205 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:20,480 Irving properties were the ones specifically where 206 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,960 where there're older building, you know, awkward turnouts or whatever that they 207 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:28,000 are, we're going to obstruct the views and the only thing that I can think of 208 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:32,600 that would work in those scenarios would be the pole signs. Right. 209 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:37,240 And landscaping at the bottom of that pole sign would 210 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:40,640 not work either. Yeah. Yeah, I think that the landscaping, if 211 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:44,400 it's already special use, I think the landscaping is is redundant. Yep. And 212 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:49,200 then we would probably want them to sell us on a pole 213 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:55,480 sign with All right, it's going to be landscaped appropriately or it fits 214 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,480 this, you know, special exception. 215 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:04,000 Okay. How does everyone else feel? 216 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,120 Yeah, I don't think you should have it only for that reason, though. I think 217 00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:11,160 you should keep where it says like case-by-case consideration just because 218 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:14,240 like what if there's no space? Like that also could be a 219 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,520 a reason that they might need a pole sign. 220 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:19,680 » Just straight special use? Yeah, I would I think so. 221 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:26,199 That's my opinion. Yeah. Okay. 222 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,319 Well, that was See. 223 00:17:28,667 --> 00:17:32,960 » [laughter] >> We talked about it enough last We 224 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,360 digested it enough last time that wasn't the hard one. 225 00:17:33,907 --> 00:17:39,080 » [laughter] >> See what happens. Um and then design 226 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:43,840 standards for ground signs, we came up with maybe some ideas of additional 227 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:48,480 things that we could require. Um if it is going to be a pole sign, 228 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:52,960 should we require more than one pole? Um I saw a code that requires the 229 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:58,280 landscaping to extend at least 2 ft beyond the width of the sign structure, 230 00:17:54,640 --> 00:18:01,320 so it's like a wider like I think it's should 231 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:04,440 » that part cuz what if they put tall things in a place where it's obstructed 232 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:08,920 view? And that's the whole point of a pole sign. Okay. 233 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:12,560 I don't know if that requiring the 2 ft width is 234 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,280 safe if we're Mhm. Okay. 235 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:18,400 Yeah, if a pole sign >> It's for all sign Any ground sign 236 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:24,080 though, not just pole signs. Um 237 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:28,560 having the supports um covered by some material that either complements the 238 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:32,360 sign or the design of the principal building 239 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:39,880 um and specifically requiring the concealment of bare metal. 240 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,880 Any? None? All? 241 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:48,160 I feel like you could rules lawyer that and just 242 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:51,040 make it out of PVC or something. Mhm. I 243 00:18:51,320 --> 00:19:00,480 I don't know. I I the the whole like covering thing to me just seems 244 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:02,960 a little too prescriptive maybe. Like if if 245 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:07,600 I mean, I'm okay if we just want a special use signs in general and 246 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:11,640 like it I mean, you bring your bring your sign, bring your landscaping plan, 247 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:15,920 and like we'll look at it if if we believe it's that problematic. 248 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:20,000 But like, the you know, putting bricks 249 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:23,120 around it just because the building that they're renting happens to be bricks, 250 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:28,160 like, that that that can add up in cost. 251 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,160 Okay. 252 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,760 Let's let uh 253 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:39,760 the person proposing the sign propose what it looks like and we can look at it 254 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,040 then. But they need some guidance and I think 255 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:48,160 that guidance would require some landscaping plan to go with it. 256 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:51,240 Also, landscaping will be required. >> Regardless. 257 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:55,640 » Yes. That was just I saw one code required it to extend at least 2 ft 258 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:59,200 beyond the width of the structure, so I put that in there as an option. 259 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:04,800 Um but this is for all ground signs again, not just pole uh pole and 260 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,800 monument signs. 261 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:14,520 Well, and let and kind of first can be 2 ft tall. 262 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,520 True. Little bonsai trees. 263 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:21,400 Well, not bonsai. I know what you mean. 264 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:24,480 So, I'm generally hearing we we don't really necessarily We don't need this 265 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:29,560 many constraints. >> Okay. If it's already going to be 266 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,560 special use for some of them. 267 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,080 Okay. 268 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:40,680 It's not like we're creating more areas where these kinds of signs are needed. 269 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:43,120 Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's too much to the point. 270 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:48,680 » and limited. Okay. 271 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,680 Is there some monument signs? 272 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:56,520 Actually, go back to the one just before, if you don't mind. Now, the one 273 00:20:53,680 --> 00:21:00,160 with the top left, number one, you'd consider that was zero landscaping, but 274 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:04,360 that's decorative? 275 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,280 Right. So, that would have like, in the new code, it would have to have 276 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,920 landscaping. >> It'd have to and and and with the 277 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,240 decorative. >> Yes. 278 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,720 Well, not the decorative. >> Well, that's not required, but the 279 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:18,280 decorative's not in lieu of the landscaping. 280 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:21,760 No, there's nothing like that proposed. There's like a little strip of flowers 281 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:25,240 around the bottom of it or something that would 282 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:30,400 » Um I think it's equal to 50% of the area of the sign. 283 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:30,400 Has to be landscaping. 284 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:39,760 So, it's in proportion to the size of the sign. 285 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:43,000 So, just for example with something like that, they're going to come in for some 286 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:48,800 type of variance or special with number one cuz there's not enough land for any 287 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,800 real landscaping around that. 288 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:57,680 Possibly. Or they know up front and they design 289 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:01,800 their parking that have one less space, use that. 290 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:03,920 Or space in the Okay. 291 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,680 Okay. 292 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:17,120 These are some other ones that we found. That's the number one is what um 293 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:23,640 the Chinese food place on Lake Street. I can't think of the name. 294 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:27,480 Uh Five Spice? Yes, that's their sign from before it was Five Five Spice. So, 295 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:32,280 now those brick pillars are painted black 296 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:36,880 and they have like a small message board on the bottom and then it says Five 297 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,880 Spice on top. 298 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:43,120 More signs. 299 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,440 You can keep going. 300 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:53,080 But, nothing under the sign, not even little ornamental. 301 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:04,960 So, a pole sign would still have to have landscaping. Any ground sign would be 302 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,960 required to have landscaping. 303 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,520 Yes, ma'am. 304 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,600 If it's a pole sign, though, I don't know if it needs Yeah, I think 305 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,720 landscaping. The whole point is to get it up and out of the way and visibility. 306 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,520 So, like maybe we wouldn't want stuff at the 307 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,360 bottom. Nothing up. 308 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:28,560 Well, it's coming in for a special use anyways for the pole sign, but I don't 309 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:34,760 know that it can I think the whole point is to avoid the ground obstruction. 310 00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:38,880 If we're going to approve of ground sign if we're going to approve a pole sign, 311 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:43,440 it's to avoid Yeah, we'll just visual obstruction and just reducing the 312 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:47,240 constraints is Okay. If if it's special use, I don't think we need to add stuff. 313 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:56,280 I'm a fan of grass anyway, so like extra landscaping sometimes looks tacky or 314 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,280 awful and it's harder to maintain. Mhm. 315 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,800 All right. Our favorite 316 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:07,040 thing to talk about after temporary signs. 317 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:14,760 Wall signs. So, we did some more research about box signs. 318 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:20,760 Um Caitlin talked to a local reputable sign manufacturer 319 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:24,520 um to discuss like what the true cost implications are to better understand 320 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:29,560 that because I know that's what we talked about a lot last time. 321 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,320 Um Caitlin, if you want to go to the next one. 322 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:41,640 So, obviously like one one two three and five are 323 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:46,960 the cheapest type of box sign because it's just like a polycarbonate 324 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:50,320 panel that they insert they print on it and then insert into an already existing 325 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:55,440 thing. Um the wing hang one is slightly more 326 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:59,640 expensive because it's actually like 3D it's pressed. 327 00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:03,760 Um so like if you look closely, it does have a little bit of dimension to it. So 328 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:08,920 that would be your like second least expensive 329 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,920 box sign type. 330 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:18,680 Um and then Eiffel Waffle is a um 331 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:23,040 I think they called it like a punch through sign. It's in the It was in my 332 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:28,320 memo. But again, all these are less expensive than individual channel 333 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:33,400 letters. Individual channel letters typically do cost more because each 334 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:37,600 letter is generally a sign. Um 335 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:43,720 so depending on how big your sign is, like how many letters, it can be either 336 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:46,560 comparative or way more expensive. Um 337 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:51,800 and then I think there was another slide, Kaylyn. 338 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,800 One more. 339 00:25:53,000 --> 00:26:00,040 These are some more examples of ones where they're like the punch through. 340 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:03,640 Um the Dreamy Nails and Pops, those are 341 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:09,720 both like the letters themselves are 342 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:13,240 lit and the background isn't. I wish we had pictures at night, but I didn't 343 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:16,680 think to do that. Um but they're so they're like kind of a box sign, but not 344 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:21,800 really. Um so I think there are different 345 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:25,600 options. That works with the same setup of like an existing box that you're 346 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:29,800 re-facing the front, you can have the the letters only as with your other code 347 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:33,400 that you want that that'll be the only piece that lights up. 348 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,400 » Mhm. 349 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:44,560 So we can prohibit box signs, we can do nothing about box 350 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:50,200 signs and just leave it as it is, or if we want to encourage 351 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:55,640 some sort of dimensional or punch through design, that's kind of what 352 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:58,520 staff is recommending, but again, we're 353 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:03,240 doing this process to get everybody's feedback. That's where I was at with it 354 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:06,320 mentally. It was the what you want in terms of the signs 355 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:10,360 being the letters lit versus the background lit going forward on any box 356 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:14,520 sign. I don't know that 357 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:18,000 There's certain types of retail from what I understand. The research we're 358 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:21,480 doing in the conversation last week, the box sign already exists. Mhm. They're 359 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,840 already there. They're going to continue to be there. 360 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,800 So, if we're going to 361 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:31,080 if we're going to put restrictions on it, then I say it's just restrictions on 362 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:35,720 how you want the signs to look, and that's where the letters light up versus 363 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,720 the sign itself. 364 00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:41,520 Is the glow one that's pictured up there? Is that a box sign 365 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,960 technically, or does that also have just like backlighting just for the 366 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,960 I think it's backlighting just for the letters. 367 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:52,320 Would that Sorry, would that be classified as a box sign? 368 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:57,040 It's like in the shape of a box, but it's not like lighted. 369 00:27:55,120 --> 00:28:00,960 To me, when I think of box signs personally, I'm thinking the ones that 370 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:05,320 are on like the Bellagio Center where it's just like a plastic panel. 371 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:10,240 A slide Um where like any of these other 372 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:16,120 options, I think I personally would prefer over just like the plain panel 373 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:20,800 ones because it I think it does add visual interest to the sign. I think it 374 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:24,960 looks a little bit nicer, and that's me personally and also sort of 375 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:29,880 professionally, but also I understand that we don't want to 376 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:33,440 increase cost for new businesses. However, you know, 377 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:38,320 what's the standard that we want to put in place for everybody 378 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:42,040 moving forward. What is like the cost difference between say like this the 379 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:47,520 standard slide in piece of plastic versus something nicer like that Polti 380 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:51,080 Group one where it's still a box sign like 381 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:55,000 Cuz I mean, if we're talking like $500, like opening a new business, that's not 382 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:58,360 a huge, huge cost. Whereas, like if it's $3,000 more, that can be more 383 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:02,520 substantial. Kaelin, do you remember what they said? 384 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,640 I just mean like I just mean the difference of the two. 385 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:09,000 Yeah. >> So, I was having a really hard time 386 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:12,400 getting a straight answer on the exact cost difference, because the answer I 387 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:18,240 got was that it kind of depends on the design of the sign. That one that says 388 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:22,280 Pulty Group is an example of instead of the polycarbonate box sign, it's 389 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:26,080 aluminum. Um the answer I got was that was kind of 390 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:31,760 the next step up, so it is more expensive than the polycarbonate 391 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:37,080 slide-in situation. Um but it is probably not as expensive 392 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:41,760 as a channel letter sign um sign still. So, the channel letter sign, the reason 393 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:45,280 I couldn't get this is would be a I asked if there was like a percentage 394 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:49,240 more expensive, is he said it really depends just on how many letters there 395 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:52,760 are. And I think it's the same for some of these with the punch-through and 396 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,960 stuff. Like, they have to do whatever machining 397 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:59,320 and manufacturing they have to do to do that. So, obviously, like that's a 398 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:06,080 little bit more complicated than printing on a piece of plastic. Yeah. 399 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:09,560 But, yeah, and there's just not really though a satisfying answer about how 400 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:13,400 much more expensive, unfortunately. It's just that those are kind of the tiers. 401 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,680 I think if we're looking at putting boundaries on these things, we got to 402 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:28,440 think of kind of the lowest quality of signs that are going to exist today, and 403 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:33,480 how we want to see the next life cycle of those, cuz they could be up for 404 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:38,520 another 10, 15, 30 years. Who knows? Um 405 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:42,480 So, I think it's more about how to what How can we improve the panels that get 406 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:45,480 put in there going forward on those where 407 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,960 there's a lot of new construction. I don't I can't imagine more most new 408 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:52,600 construction is going to put up box signs to begin with. Right. 409 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:56,760 So, it's about the existing inventory that's there. So, 410 00:30:54,440 --> 00:31:00,960 I'm I I would be pleased if it was just more 411 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:05,000 of a consistent sign with the translucent letters versus the backing 412 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,880 being lit and that became more consistent. 413 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:15,480 I don't know if it's important that it's um 414 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:20,200 if it's got dimensional to it or not. I'm open to other opinions. 415 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:25,040 So, you're what you're describing is just like the plain poly 416 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:28,440 carbonate sort of slide in. That's what you're looking for. Well, if we went 417 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:35,120 back a couple Kayla like to the Dunkin' Donuts, Doctor 418 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:41,080 Dogs type stuff, right? Here, that's this is fine. Okay. Uh so, 419 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:48,600 if these boxes exist and these boxes are going to get repurposed going forward, 420 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:51,840 we could require what would be an an an the next level up in terms of the slide 421 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:57,640 in cuz they're not going to change out the box and so that they would be 422 00:31:54,320 --> 00:32:02,400 textured translucent letters and it would look more modern. 423 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:07,520 Can we require that? Mhm. None of the other surrounding 424 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:10,760 communities specify the style, though. It's either permitted, permitted, 425 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,440 permitted or prohibited. 426 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:20,560 What what do you mean by the the style? Style being you know, the box sign 427 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:23,960 versus Uh the kind of what you're describing in the type of Even if it's a 428 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:30,480 slide in, you can't have the poly carbonate, you have to have raised. 429 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:36,240 Yeah, I I I think we either we're fine with box signs or we're not fine with 430 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:40,360 box signs or we're fine grandfathering box signs, we're not fine with new box 431 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:43,440 signs. Like we talked last time about new constructions, maybe you can't have 432 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,920 box signs. And that seemed like something that we 433 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:52,040 were kind of leaning toward and then it was, all right, if they're redoing the 434 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:58,360 building, you know, what do we do then? So, what we could do is 435 00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:03,280 not allow them for new buildings. 436 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:07,280 And then, in order to begin phasing them out, 437 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:12,240 if the electrical needs to be changed out, you could require Like if 438 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:15,840 something, instead of just like switching out the panels would continue 439 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:21,440 to be fine, but if some sort of electrical component within the box sign 440 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:25,680 itself fails and needs to be replaced, then you just have to replace. 441 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,840 Well, I think the issue is if there's a if there's a plaza with seven of these 442 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:33,440 and Yeah, you one go. >> replace one, but you don't replace the 443 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:38,080 other six. Like that almost looks sillier. Okay. So, 444 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:41,560 if if we just say, all right, you're grandfathered in, 445 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:45,840 great, but everything new build needs to be 446 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:53,080 So, what if you do get a property owner who decides to just like phase them out 447 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:57,240 one by one? If that That's a good point. 448 00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:01,480 Normally, it's not not a problem but if this is something 449 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,240 they would choose Yeah. 450 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:09,000 Yeah, but um property owners also have to sign off on the sign. Some property 451 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:13,240 owners require you to use a certain style. They don't want to give up the 452 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:17,560 convenience of the box for the next tenant. 453 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:21,040 I think that's the case for um the shopping center where Lake Street Pub is 454 00:34:19,399 --> 00:34:24,960 and Famous Beverages. I think that's kind of 455 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:28,360 what they're doing is the boxes are there, so that's what you're going to 456 00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:32,520 use. Yeah. It's It's a huge expense and it could It's either on the tenant or 457 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:35,040 it's on the landlord and and, you know, in those types of centers, neither of 458 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,679 them there's not a lot of margin in those 459 00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:43,760 deals. So, I I would I think it's a very all things 460 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:48,800 considered, it's it's inexpensive for us to restrict the 461 00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:53,120 panel that goes back into those going forward 462 00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:56,280 versus the whole new box. I think uh excluding it for new construction, which 463 00:34:54,879 --> 00:34:59,160 is new construction's going to do that itself anyways, 464 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:03,160 but if we exclude it for new construction, 465 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:07,160 and all the panels on these start to improve over the years because the boxes 466 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:12,200 are not going away, I think that's a step in the right direction. 467 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,360 Can we go to the next slide, please? It's not restricting the retail 468 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:18,120 business. It's not encumbering on the landlord. 469 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:25,440 I just think that like restricting them totally, cuz even on the next slide, 470 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:28,120 too, but like this car wash at MLK, just the way they designed it, you can tell 471 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:32,560 it's newer, you can tell it's more modern. The way they designed it already 472 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:36,600 looks better than some of the other ones that were pictured, even though they 473 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:40,360 might also have been raised. Even though it's the same design, so I 474 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:44,480 just feel like new stuff is already going to look better. 475 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:48,240 And it's hard to like restrict it because A, even on the next slide where 476 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,960 it's we were talking about that glow one, 477 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:55,560 we didn't have a definition for that type of sign. So, that's tough, too. We 478 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:59,800 would really have to like define what it is, what it looks like. Is it just a 479 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:03,480 slide in? Does it include a slide in with raised letters? 480 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,880 It's I agree with you. 481 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:13,120 I and I think my purpose is, you know, it's the winging sign, but with a the 482 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:18,880 back is not translucent, the letters are translucent. The the car wash at MLK, 483 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:22,120 great example, you know, because I think that's what the panel in the box sign is 484 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:25,480 going to look like going forward, and the letters are going to be translucent, 485 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:29,520 not the backing. And then that way it stays consistent 486 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:32,400 with the other signs going forward, which we got and would look better in 487 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:36,560 general cuz they're newer and the construction's different than the box 488 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:40,760 sign. But at least in that sign, the all the all the the retail box signs that 489 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,960 exist today would just take that leap forward 490 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,840 cosmetically and 491 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:50,800 eventually maybe redevelopment takes place or somebody comes in and wants to 492 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:54,360 improve the property. But you know, if you look at some of the 493 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:58,200 retail buildings up on Nerge that struggled to get another retail actually 494 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:03,920 in and they're getting karate places and daycares and you know, church groups 495 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:09,480 they're not going to pay for the the greater sign. It's another encumbrance 496 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,480 to get in a deal done. So 497 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,000 again, the business that comes in that is really important about the signage, 498 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:18,920 they're probably not going to those properties that we're really trying to 499 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:22,160 improve at the moment. So I think if the panels 500 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,760 have the raised lettering and translucent letters and all the 501 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:29,920 definitions we're supposed to use for those, I think that's what I'm 502 00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:29,920 recommending. 503 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:39,040 And outlawed for new, restricted for new construction. 504 00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:41,720 That makes sense. So then wouldn't you want to do this 505 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:46,080 too? What was in the packet where it says whenever a non-conforming sign has 506 00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:49,480 been discontinued for a period of six consecutive months 507 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:53,560 and then it says some more, then it would have to be 508 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:57,920 like re- redone or replaced. So would that fall on the new tenant or the owner 509 00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:01,680 if it was like an abandoned or not abandoned, but just like a closed 510 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,680 business? 511 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:10,720 I think my purpose to that from reading that last time would been to 512 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:13,440 the places where the panel exists, the panel exists. 513 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:18,160 So we >> The box, I'm sorry, the the box exists. 514 00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:23,280 So you'd want to maybe take that part out of the proposed sign code. 515 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:27,120 Cuz if it's non- right now like some one of the proposed messaging says, if it's 516 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:32,880 non-conforming, which would be a box sign, if we decided, right? Well, 517 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:37,280 no. So, like, the panel itself would have to be, right? Cuz we're still 518 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:42,800 talking about allowing box signs. But, requiring an opaque background and 519 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:47,280 raised lettering. Okay. Okay. So, they would not be able to just like resurface 520 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,000 an existing panel. Okay, I was thinking we were Yes. 521 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:52,200 » Okay. I understood what you were saying 522 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:58,040 though. I was like, oh crap, yeah. Well, no. In in in that same context though, 523 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:01,600 that would be on a one-off sign. If one sign was 100% of the signage on the 524 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:05,760 building, like, I could see why we would imply that. Now, if a center has six 525 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,720 signs and one of them is out of commission for 526 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:14,160 6 months, I don't know that that applies to that a multi-tenant 527 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:18,440 signage building. You're you're not going to Now, that 528 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:22,160 one's not obsolete because it was out or vacant for 6 months or whatever the case 529 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,440 was, because you still have five more at that building. So, it would be the whole 530 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,840 building. >> It would be the whole building or 531 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:35,600 you could say, you know, if you use that same language, if, you know, 60% or more 532 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:39,800 of the signage was available it was down for a period of 6 months or more, then 533 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:44,640 the whole thing would then be required to be updated to code. Okay. Um but I 534 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:50,360 again, I think it would be a silly restriction to have one sign 535 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:54,440 of five or six signs be out and now the whole building is out of out of 536 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:58,960 compliance. Yeah. And that's what it says is 537 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:04,840 um if 50% of an individual, like, a 538 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:10,280 multi-tenant building is remodeled with replacement signs, you have to do the 539 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,280 rest of them. You can't just have 540 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:16,880 Let's say you have a 10 tenants, you can't have 541 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:20,360 five new signs and five old signs. You have to replace all of them. 542 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,840 I think that's fair if it stays consistent. 543 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:38,880 Okay. Anything else? I think that was it, right, Caitlin? 544 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:53,240 I think the code current like the current code says the raceways have to 545 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:58,000 match the wall like the wall, so it's blends in more. So, like 546 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:02,760 Salon Raybelle blends in with and not Corrados. I think 547 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:07,240 that's what it currently says. Is that something what we want to continue or do 548 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:12,360 we care? Well, Manji's Dogs doesn't But then that 549 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:15,560 looks good. Yeah, I'm good. It would have looked better if it 550 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:19,280 matched. I I I I I can't even read the Corrados 551 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:24,280 from over here because the the white raceway and the yellow lines are 552 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:28,640 Is that in Roselle? Very bright color. >> Yeah. 553 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:34,920 Uh it's next to Salon De Bella. Oh, LaGree. Oh, okay. 554 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:38,120 Yeah, I I I I kind of like the raceway like the raceway should fade into the 555 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,800 background because it's just supposed to be the thing it 556 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:45,960 hangs on. It's not supposed to be an additional decorative piece. 557 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:50,120 It's not the sign. Exactly. 558 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,120 Right. Yeah. 559 00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:01,000 Okay. I think that was it. 560 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:08,720 So, we will write up 561 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:12,080 these sections and bring them next time and then also 562 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,480 temporary sign stuff. Okay. 563 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:21,720 Yay. Uh we have to 564 00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:27,240 Continue. >> Are there any members of the public who 565 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:30,120 wish to speak at this hearing? Okay. 566 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:35,320 Can I get a motion to continue the public 567 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:40,080 hearing PZ 26-11-56 to the June 2nd, 2026 Planning and 568 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:43,760 Zoning Commission? I'll make that. Second. 569 00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:49,280 I have a first. Jason Wertz? Yes. Brian Boos? Hi. Leda 570 00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:55,120 Glante? Hi. Namish Johnny? Hi. Chairman Wallach? Hi. 571 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,120 Is there any old business? 572 00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:02,520 Nope. Is there any new business? 573 00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:02,520 We have a meeting next month. Yes. 574 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,440 Uh is there a motion to adjourn the meeting 575 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:12,320 at uh 7:43? 576 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:17,920 Move. Second. 577 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:20,640 All in favor? Hi. Hi. Adjourned. Wonderful. 578 00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:25,400 Thank you, guys. What's the June meeting? What? 579 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,400 The June 2nd. 580 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,720 Yes.