1
00:00:02,740 --> 00:00:04,690
I would like to begin this meeting

2
00:00:04,690 --> 00:00:13,851
. Good evening everyone and thank you for

3
00:00:13,851 --> 00:00:18,036
coming. Thank you very much. As

4
00:00:18,036 --> 00:00:20,976
everyone knows, the main topic

5
00:00:20,976 --> 00:00:23,613
tonight is the situation we are

6
00:00:23,613 --> 00:00:26,176
seeing on Evergreen Avenue with a

7
00:00:26,176 --> 00:00:29,040
program run by the Department of

8
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,673
Correction. There are a couple of

9
00:00:33,673 --> 00:00:36,427
administrative matters I need to address under

10
00:00:36,427 --> 00:00:39,180
the open meetings law before we

11
00:00:39,180 --> 00:00:42,479
move on to the main topic. So I'm going to

12
00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,200
proceed with that right now. Are there

13
00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,370
any additions or deletions to the

14
00:00:47,370 --> 00:00:50,184
agenda that anyone would like to make? Since there were

15
00:00:50,184 --> 00:00:52,557
none. Audience comments

16
00:00:52,557 --> 00:00:54,979
on agenda items.

17
00:00:54,979 --> 00:00:58,314
Normally this would be the opportunity

18
00:00:58,314 --> 00:01:01,649
for the audience to speak, but I'm going to

19
00:01:01,649 --> 00:01:06,460
move that point a little further on.

20
00:01:06,460 --> 00:01:09,386
I want to hear from the mayor and the

21
00:01:09,386 --> 00:01:12,092
police chief first, and then I will open the

22
00:01:12,092 --> 00:01:15,018
floor to any member of the public,

23
00:01:15,018 --> 00:01:17,945
one by one, so that if they wish to speak,

24
00:01:17,945 --> 00:01:20,798
they can try to get straight to the point, if I

25
00:01:20,798 --> 00:01:24,341
may politely ask. And after

26
00:01:24,341 --> 00:01:25,668
that, we'll ask the

27
00:01:25,668 --> 00:01:27,373
Department of Correction if they have

28
00:01:27,373 --> 00:01:29,127
anything to say, and then we'll open the

29
00:01:29,127 --> 00:01:31,476
debate in general. So, without further

30
00:01:31,476 --> 00:01:33,592
ado, I'm going to give you the floor.

31
00:01:33,592 --> 00:01:36,179
I want to ask Mayor Donahue to

32
00:01:36,179 --> 00:01:39,283
start tonight. I'll just lay

33
00:01:39,283 --> 00:01:42,211
the groundwork quickly. Both the

34
00:01:42,211 --> 00:01:44,662
mayor and I have received

35
00:01:44,662 --> 00:01:46,929
phone calls and communications from

36
00:01:46,929 --> 00:01:49,610
residents. Katrina, you had

37
00:01:49,610 --> 00:01:50,749
told me several times about the

38
00:01:50,749 --> 00:01:54,285
situation up there. She and I have

39
00:01:54,285 --> 00:01:56,679
known each other for a long time and,

40
00:01:56,679 --> 00:01:59,073
well, some of the things she described to me were worrying, to say the

41
00:01:59,073 --> 00:02:01,337
least

42
00:02:01,337 --> 00:02:05,644
. So we've come

43
00:02:05,644 --> 00:02:08,129
from the beginning of that conversation

44
00:02:08,129 --> 00:02:11,599
to this point today. I have spoken with the

45
00:02:11,599 --> 00:02:14,600
Commissioner of Corrections. He and I

46
00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,679
had a meeting via Teams.

47
00:02:16,679 --> 00:02:18,818
We have talked. I know he's also

48
00:02:18,818 --> 00:02:20,877
spoken to the police chief and

49
00:02:20,877 --> 00:02:22,825
the mayor, and well, there have been

50
00:02:22,825 --> 00:02:26,159
behind-the-scenes conversations. But I

51
00:02:26,159 --> 00:02:27,871
think it's important that we all

52
00:02:27,871 --> 00:02:29,842
listen, especially the audience

53
00:02:29,842 --> 00:02:31,657
tonight, about the situation they

54
00:02:31,657 --> 00:02:33,628
face up there and what we can

55
00:02:33,628 --> 00:02:35,599
do, if anything, going

56
00:02:35,599 --> 00:02:37,622
forward; We would certainly like to

57
00:02:37,622 --> 00:02:40,663
see some action. So, Mr. Mayor,

58
00:02:40,663 --> 00:02:41,660
the floor is yours.

59
00:02:41,660 --> 00:02:43,485
Yes, well, President O'Leary,

60
00:02:43,485 --> 00:02:44,898
thank you very much. First of all, I want to

61
00:02:44,898 --> 00:02:46,880
thank you for calling this meeting.

62
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:48,550
As you know, a few weeks ago

63
00:02:48,550 --> 00:02:50,499
we listened to the residents and it was

64
00:02:50,499 --> 00:02:52,615
quite a passionate discussion that

65
00:02:52,615 --> 00:02:54,786
arose during the

66
00:02:54,786 --> 00:02:56,791
public sector communications at a

67
00:02:56,791 --> 00:02:59,018
regular meeting of the

68
00:02:59,018 --> 00:03:01,826
City Council and. Many of us were

69
00:03:01,826 --> 00:03:04,265
quite surprised by the intensity

70
00:03:04,265 --> 00:03:06,642
of the situation on Evergreen Avenue

71
00:03:06,642 --> 00:03:08,959
that the neighbors had reached at

72
00:03:08,959 --> 00:03:10,971
that point, 4 years after this

73
00:03:10,971 --> 00:03:14,730
program was installed there. So

74
00:03:14,730 --> 00:03:16,662
one of the things that concerned us,

75
00:03:16,662 --> 00:03:18,282
of course, is the volume of

76
00:03:18,282 --> 00:03:20,371
responses to Evergreen Avenue by

77
00:03:20,371 --> 00:03:22,200
the

78
00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,237
Raleigh City Police Department during that

79
00:03:24,237 --> 00:03:25,647
4-year period, and a

80
00:03:25,647 --> 00:03:27,580
significant number since January alone, and a

81
00:03:27,580 --> 00:03:29,617
significant number even in July of

82
00:03:29,617 --> 00:03:33,389
this year. And it's one of those things that I

83
00:03:33,389 --> 00:03:36,309
firmly believe the neighbors have

84
00:03:36,309 --> 00:03:38,520
tolerated. They have tolerated it for 4

85
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,314
years and that is what has brought us

86
00:03:40,314 --> 00:03:42,255
to this point. So I want to

87
00:03:42,255 --> 00:03:43,948
thank the Board of Councillors

88
00:03:43,948 --> 00:03:45,733
for listening to the concerns of the

89
00:03:45,733 --> 00:03:47,983
residents. Because these are the kinds of

90
00:03:47,983 --> 00:03:49,590
things that I think, you know, there might be

91
00:03:49,590 --> 00:03:51,949
a model here. There are a dozen

92
00:03:51,949 --> 00:03:54,804
of these types of agreements throughout the

93
00:03:54,804 --> 00:03:57,090
city. Perhaps having a third of that

94
00:03:57,090 --> 00:03:58,730
in a single location is not the

95
00:03:58,730 --> 00:04:01,605
right model. And perhaps that needs to be addressed,

96
00:04:01,605 --> 00:04:04,302
and in a different location. So

97
00:04:04,302 --> 00:04:05,389
, really, that's

98
00:04:05,389 --> 00:04:06,919
probably where we need to get to

99
00:04:06,919 --> 00:04:08,489
resolve this, because

100
00:04:08,489 --> 00:04:11,039
the neighbors' tolerance has simply run out. That said

101
00:04:11,039 --> 00:04:12,869
, I also want to thank

102
00:04:12,869 --> 00:04:14,517
our state legislators who

103
00:04:14,517 --> 00:04:16,257
are in the room, from the House and the

104
00:04:16,257 --> 00:04:17,905
Senate, as well as our

105
00:04:17,905 --> 00:04:19,140
police chief and the

106
00:04:19,140 --> 00:04:20,926
media who are here, because

107
00:04:20,926 --> 00:04:22,711
this is a very important issue for the

108
00:04:22,711 --> 00:04:24,542
region, the city as a whole, and our

109
00:04:24,542 --> 00:04:27,831
community. Having said that, I also want to

110
00:04:27,831 --> 00:04:29,672
thank the

111
00:04:29,672 --> 00:04:31,671
Corrections Department, which is present

112
00:04:31,671 --> 00:04:33,709
tonight, which we appreciate. Honestly

113
00:04:33,709 --> 00:04:36,482
, thank you for being here. And

114
00:04:36,482 --> 00:04:39,282
last but not least, the

115
00:04:39,282 --> 00:04:42,154
neighbors who are willing to come and

116
00:04:42,154 --> 00:04:46,176
talk about what they have been through. And I just

117
00:04:46,176 --> 00:04:47,945
want to point out that there are several neighbors

118
00:04:47,945 --> 00:04:49,669
who didn't feel comfortable coming

119
00:04:49,669 --> 00:04:51,483
because they were worried about reprisals,

120
00:04:51,483 --> 00:04:53,633
and that worries me. So I am

121
00:04:53,633 --> 00:04:55,287
grateful to the neighbors who are

122
00:04:55,287 --> 00:04:57,728
willing to speak out. Four years is a

123
00:04:57,728 --> 00:04:59,317
long time, and I think they have been more

124
00:04:59,317 --> 00:05:00,865
than tolerant, and I think it's time to

125
00:05:00,865 --> 00:05:03,340
change this model. Thank you.

126
00:05:03,340 --> 00:05:05,496
Good. Very good, excellent.

127
00:05:05,496 --> 00:05:07,899
Thank you so much. So, this is an

128
00:05:07,899 --> 00:05:10,051
opportunity for the

129
00:05:10,051 --> 00:05:15,400
police chief to come up and give us a brief, uh,

130
00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,948
well, from his point of view, uh, what's been going on

131
00:05:17,948 --> 00:05:20,431
recently and

132
00:05:20,431 --> 00:05:22,979
in the last, uh, couple of years, uh,

133
00:05:22,979 --> 00:05:25,593
not just with Evergreen Avenue, but, uh,

134
00:05:25,593 --> 00:05:28,541
with this whole program as a whole.

135
00:05:28,541 --> 00:05:30,534
So, Chief Prouty, uh, you have the

136
00:05:30,534 --> 00:05:31,260
floor.

137
00:05:31,260 --> 00:05:32,920
Well, I think it would be disingenuous of

138
00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,121
me to talk about the whole program.

139
00:05:35,121 --> 00:05:36,654
Okay, that's fine. I'm sure there are

140
00:05:36,654 --> 00:05:38,486
probably many places where it's

141
00:05:38,486 --> 00:05:39,020
...

142
00:05:39,020 --> 00:05:40,395
Well, here in Rutland.

143
00:05:40,395 --> 00:05:43,344
So, I can, do it, I can do that. And I know there have

144
00:05:43,344 --> 00:05:44,615
been some recent changes to

145
00:05:44,615 --> 00:05:45,891
the program. First, thank you for

146
00:05:45,891 --> 00:05:48,216
inviting me. Um, I'll be brief because I believe

147
00:05:48,216 --> 00:05:49,905
the important part of the

148
00:05:49,905 --> 00:05:52,158
conversation should come from the public and

149
00:05:52,158 --> 00:05:55,018
the neighbors who are here. Um, 57

150
00:05:55,018 --> 00:05:57,753
calls doesn't seem like a lot. There are

151
00:05:57,753 --> 00:05:59,703
many, especially, um, when you know you

152
00:05:59,703 --> 00:06:01,409
're not receiving all the

153
00:06:01,409 --> 00:06:03,310
calls about what happened in a place

154
00:06:03,310 --> 00:06:07,467
. Um, my concern isn't so much

155
00:06:07,467 --> 00:06:10,466
about correctional facilities or

156
00:06:10,466 --> 00:06:13,465
reintegration programs or, um, what people

157
00:06:13,465 --> 00:06:16,631
can or cannot necessarily do, but rather that there are

158
00:06:16,631 --> 00:06:19,713
problems in the law that tie

159
00:06:19,713 --> 00:06:22,665
people's hands. So,

160
00:06:22,665 --> 00:06:24,665
when there is a

161
00:06:24,665 --> 00:06:26,725
public expectation that people under

162
00:06:26,725 --> 00:06:29,149
supervision, um, if they do something wrong, it

163
00:06:29,149 --> 00:06:31,224
can be fixed. That's not always

164
00:06:31,224 --> 00:06:33,748
true. And it's not the fault of the

165
00:06:33,748 --> 00:06:35,287
probation officers, it's not the fault

166
00:06:35,287 --> 00:06:36,784
of the Department of Correction as a

167
00:06:36,784 --> 00:06:38,198
whole, nor the fault of the

168
00:06:38,198 --> 00:06:41,679
reintegration programs. It is either legislative

169
00:06:41,679 --> 00:06:43,709
or perhaps there are some rules

170
00:06:43,709 --> 00:06:46,439
established at the state level that they

171
00:06:46,439 --> 00:06:49,220
have to follow. So, they're

172
00:06:49,220 --> 00:06:51,223
probably not going to talk about it

173
00:06:51,223 --> 00:06:53,389
tonight, and that's fine, but I do think it

174
00:06:53,389 --> 00:06:55,884
needs to be investigated. I am

175
00:06:55,884 --> 00:06:57,938
committed to working with our

176
00:06:57,938 --> 00:07:00,159
partners in the Department of Correction,

177
00:07:00,159 --> 00:07:02,324
specifically with Justin Hanson, a

178
00:07:02,324 --> 00:07:04,268
great partner to us and my

179
00:07:04,268 --> 00:07:06,366
staff. And the commissioner and I

180
00:07:06,366 --> 00:07:08,089
will definitely be in

181
00:07:08,089 --> 00:07:10,287
communication, so, um, we're

182
00:07:10,287 --> 00:07:12,486
involved. We want to see this

183
00:07:12,486 --> 00:07:14,356
resolved. We want people to live in

184
00:07:14,356 --> 00:07:15,961
peace in their neighborhood and not have to

185
00:07:15,961 --> 00:07:18,244
worry or live in fear. It's not

186
00:07:18,244 --> 00:07:19,669
right, especially if something is

187
00:07:19,669 --> 00:07:21,298
supported by taxpayer money,

188
00:07:21,298 --> 00:07:23,213
so that's what I have. Alright

189
00:07:23,213 --> 00:07:23,753
.

190
00:07:23,753 --> 00:07:24,093
Thank you.

191
00:07:24,093 --> 00:07:24,752
TRUE.

192
00:07:24,752 --> 00:07:27,100
Okay, thanks, boss. Thank you.

193
00:07:27,100 --> 00:07:29,324
And you know, we've heard several times

194
00:07:29,324 --> 00:07:31,669
from the boss about, you know, the number of

195
00:07:31,669 --> 00:07:34,074
calls and the quality of the calls and

196
00:07:34,074 --> 00:07:36,119
what's been going on up there

197
00:07:36,119 --> 00:07:38,152
. So, I guess we never

198
00:07:38,152 --> 00:07:40,325
heard that enough. It's

199
00:07:40,325 --> 00:07:41,868
simply important for our

200
00:07:41,868 --> 00:07:43,496
friends in the correctional system and the

201
00:07:43,496 --> 00:07:46,699
general public to hear that.

202
00:07:46,699 --> 00:07:50,136
As the Chief mentioned, it is important

203
00:07:50,136 --> 00:07:53,303
that we listen to the public or the

204
00:07:53,303 --> 00:07:58,105
neighbors when and if they wish to speak. This

205
00:07:58,105 --> 00:08:00,852
will undoubtedly be their opportunity. All

206
00:08:00,852 --> 00:08:03,299
they have to do is raise their hand, come up

207
00:08:03,299 --> 00:08:05,808
to the podium, tell us their name, and it

208
00:08:05,808 --> 00:08:07,603
will be their turn. So, whoever wants to

209
00:08:07,603 --> 00:08:12,581
start first. Very good, Katrina.

210
00:08:12,581 --> 00:08:15,938
Thank you for coming. Thank you.

211
00:08:15,938 --> 00:08:17,282
This is your chance, so go

212
00:08:17,282 --> 00:08:18,339
ahead, please.

213
00:08:18,339 --> 00:08:21,756
OK. Thank you for having me. Uh,

214
00:08:21,756 --> 00:08:25,122
my name is Katrina. I own

215
00:08:25,122 --> 00:08:27,579
a property on Evergreen Avenue. I

216
00:08:27,579 --> 00:08:29,376
own, uh, what used to be

217
00:08:29,376 --> 00:08:31,322
my father's house, what used to be my

218
00:08:31,322 --> 00:08:34,603
house, my childhood home. Oh, and

219
00:08:34,603 --> 00:08:38,354
now I'm the landlord. Uh, I grew up

220
00:08:38,354 --> 00:08:40,881
there. My father passed away in that house and

221
00:08:40,881 --> 00:08:42,823
now I have wonderful tenants

222
00:08:42,823 --> 00:08:46,011
who live here. And he, uh, Scott,

223
00:08:46,011 --> 00:08:48,290
lives in my father's apartment

224
00:08:48,290 --> 00:08:50,504
right next door to 43 Evergreen

225
00:08:50,504 --> 00:08:52,849
Avenue. Uh, my family has called

226
00:08:52,849 --> 00:08:55,099
this street home for 100 years. It's

227
00:08:55,099 --> 00:08:57,579
not something I just walked into

228
00:08:57,579 --> 00:08:59,976
or moved into. My great-grandparents,

229
00:08:59,976 --> 00:09:01,766
both sets, uh, lived there and

230
00:09:01,766 --> 00:09:03,803
raised their children there. My grandparents

231
00:09:03,803 --> 00:09:05,507
were neighbors and met on that

232
00:09:05,507 --> 00:09:07,401
street, and my uncles and my parents raised

233
00:09:07,401 --> 00:09:10,114
their children there. In 2023, I bought a

234
00:09:10,114 --> 00:09:12,660
second property on Evergreen Avenue.

235
00:09:12,660 --> 00:09:14,714
I decided to buy it because I love this

236
00:09:14,714 --> 00:09:16,950
neighborhood and because I wanted to help

237
00:09:16,950 --> 00:09:19,246
protect it from the kind of situation we

238
00:09:19,246 --> 00:09:21,300
were experiencing, and still are

239
00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:23,597
experiencing, at 43 Evergreen

240
00:09:23,597 --> 00:09:25,205
Avenue. And that's why I'm here tonight

241
00:09:25,205 --> 00:09:27,413
. For the past four

242
00:09:27,413 --> 00:09:29,061
years, residents of this street have

243
00:09:29,061 --> 00:09:30,421
dealt with constant problems

244
00:09:30,421 --> 00:09:32,676
related to this property. And

245
00:09:32,676 --> 00:09:36,549
I want to emphasize the part about constants. My

246
00:09:36,549 --> 00:09:38,457
tenants and neighbors have called me

247
00:09:38,457 --> 00:09:40,032
repeatedly with concerns

248
00:09:40,032 --> 00:09:41,885
over the past few years. They have

249
00:09:41,885 --> 00:09:43,529
expressed feeling nervous,

250
00:09:43,529 --> 00:09:45,481
uncomfortable, and scared, and I have received

251
00:09:45,481 --> 00:09:47,381
calls and complaints about the frequent

252
00:09:47,381 --> 00:09:49,230
police presence and

253
00:09:49,230 --> 00:09:51,974
ongoing disturbances surrounding this property. These are not

254
00:09:51,974 --> 00:09:53,691
occasional worries of a

255
00:09:53,691 --> 00:09:56,387
single person. These are recurring complaints from

256
00:09:56,387 --> 00:09:58,798
people who live there day after day

257
00:09:58,798 --> 00:10:03,089
. As a landlord and friend to many of

258
00:10:03,089 --> 00:10:05,295
the people on the street, it is extremely

259
00:10:05,295 --> 00:10:07,558
difficult for them to tell me that they do not feel

260
00:10:07,558 --> 00:10:09,708
safe in the neighborhood and that they are

261
00:10:09,708 --> 00:10:14,860
worried about what is happening next door. We have

262
00:10:14,860 --> 00:10:17,115
all witnessed

263
00:10:17,115 --> 00:10:19,428
criminal activity, street fights, fights

264
00:10:19,428 --> 00:10:21,741
with neighbors, drugs going in and out

265
00:10:21,741 --> 00:10:24,054
of the house, shouting at night, damage

266
00:10:24,054 --> 00:10:26,020
to surrounding property, cars

267
00:10:26,020 --> 00:10:28,333
forced open, searched, and people looking

268
00:10:28,333 --> 00:10:30,356
inside houses and watching

269
00:10:30,356 --> 00:10:34,112
small children. These things have

270
00:10:34,112 --> 00:10:35,604
changed the way people live

271
00:10:35,604 --> 00:10:38,170
on this street. People used to walk

272
00:10:38,170 --> 00:10:39,986
along Evergreen Avenue, but they don't anymore

273
00:10:39,986 --> 00:10:42,713
. People are afraid to let

274
00:10:42,713 --> 00:10:44,427
their children ride bikes or play

275
00:10:44,427 --> 00:10:45,922
outside without worrying about what they

276
00:10:45,922 --> 00:10:47,592
might find, and this is not how it

277
00:10:47,592 --> 00:10:49,131
should feel in a

278
00:10:49,131 --> 00:10:52,057
residential neighborhood. And although the property

279
00:10:52,057 --> 00:10:53,678
has only recently begun to receive any

280
00:10:53,678 --> 00:10:55,212
maintenance, that doesn't

281
00:10:55,212 --> 00:10:56,790
erase the problems that have occurred

282
00:10:56,790 --> 00:10:59,039
over the past four years.

283
00:10:59,039 --> 00:11:00,950
There are still parts of the property that

284
00:11:00,950 --> 00:11:02,480
need attention and damage to

285
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,153
surrounding properties that need to be

286
00:11:04,153 --> 00:11:06,337
addressed. There is also

287
00:11:06,337 --> 00:11:08,294
real concern about the impact

288
00:11:08,294 --> 00:11:09,663
this has on the value and

289
00:11:09,663 --> 00:11:11,327
desirability of the homes

290
00:11:11,327 --> 00:11:13,501
surrounding 43 Evergreen. We have

291
00:11:13,501 --> 00:11:15,074
invested our money and our

292
00:11:15,074 --> 00:11:17,384
lives in these homes. This street has

293
00:11:17,384 --> 00:11:19,624
been my whole life. My whole life and the

294
00:11:19,624 --> 00:11:21,609
lives of my whole family, and everyone

295
00:11:21,609 --> 00:11:23,648
there is raising their

296
00:11:23,648 --> 00:11:26,260
families and bringing their grandchildren.

297
00:11:26,260 --> 00:11:28,482
I also want to make it clear that this is not about

298
00:11:28,482 --> 00:11:30,649
saying that people who

299
00:11:30,649 --> 00:11:32,705
have made mistakes in their lives do not

300
00:11:32,705 --> 00:11:34,372
deserve rehabilitation or a

301
00:11:34,372 --> 00:11:37,200
chance to rebuild their lives.

302
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,716
Because they do deserve it. But that doesn't

303
00:11:39,716 --> 00:11:41,616
mean every property is a

304
00:11:41,616 --> 00:11:43,671
suitable location or that compassion

305
00:11:43,671 --> 00:11:45,674
for those in need of support should come at the

306
00:11:45,674 --> 00:11:47,626
expense of families already living

307
00:11:47,626 --> 00:11:50,401
in the neighborhood. At some point

308
00:11:50,401 --> 00:11:51,838
we must recognize when something

309
00:11:51,838 --> 00:11:54,559
simply isn't working.

310
00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,777
Four years of repeated problems

311
00:11:56,777 --> 00:11:59,120
are not an isolated incident. It's a pattern

312
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,748
. And the people who live there are the

313
00:12:01,748 --> 00:12:03,279
ones who have been living with that

314
00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:06,364
pattern. I want the children to have

315
00:12:06,364 --> 00:12:08,157
the Evergreen Avenue that I

316
00:12:08,157 --> 00:12:10,155
grew up with, that we grew up with, my cousins

317
00:12:10,155 --> 00:12:13,529
, my mom. Hey, I want you to ride your

318
00:12:13,529 --> 00:12:16,075
bikes. I want the neighbors to

319
00:12:16,075 --> 00:12:18,031
feel comfortable walking down their

320
00:12:18,031 --> 00:12:19,973
own street. I want families to

321
00:12:19,973 --> 00:12:21,823
feel safe in their homes. And

322
00:12:21,823 --> 00:12:23,760
I want to protect the neighborhood that my

323
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,592
family, my tenants, neighbors, and

324
00:12:25,592 --> 00:12:27,986
friends call home. So

325
00:12:27,986 --> 00:12:29,553
tonight, I ask you to listen to the

326
00:12:29,553 --> 00:12:31,805
residents who have lived with this. We've

327
00:12:31,805 --> 00:12:34,185
given him time. We have observed what

328
00:12:34,185 --> 00:12:36,243
has happened. We have lived with the

329
00:12:36,243 --> 00:12:38,338
consequences. And we're not

330
00:12:38,338 --> 00:12:40,919
asking them to prevent anything from happening. We

331
00:12:40,919 --> 00:12:42,974
ask you to stop something that is already

332
00:12:42,974 --> 00:12:47,998
happening. The people of

333
00:12:47,998 --> 00:12:49,992
Evergreen Avenue deserve a

334
00:12:49,992 --> 00:12:52,280
safe place to live, grow up, raise their

335
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,508
children, and a safe place where

336
00:12:54,508 --> 00:12:57,859
people can feel at home.

337
00:12:57,859 --> 00:12:58,359
Thank you.

338
00:12:58,359 --> 00:13:04,320
Very good, Katrina. Thank you so much.

339
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,193
Thank you. So, would anyone else in the

340
00:13:07,193 --> 00:13:09,364
neighborhood like to stand up and talk

341
00:13:09,364 --> 00:13:10,845
? They certainly don't have to,

342
00:13:10,845 --> 00:13:12,218
but they are more than welcome if they

343
00:13:12,218 --> 00:13:19,176
wish to do so. It is entirely voluntary. And

344
00:13:19,176 --> 00:13:21,040
we see that we have someone interested.

345
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,142
Thank you. Good evening, sir. And

346
00:13:24,142 --> 00:13:25,842
thank you. And if you could

347
00:13:25,842 --> 00:13:27,735
kindly provide your name for the record,

348
00:13:27,735 --> 00:13:30,539
then we will give you the floor.

349
00:13:30,539 --> 00:13:32,740
My name is Jared Blake, and I live next door

350
00:13:32,740 --> 00:13:35,919
to the property in question.

351
00:13:35,919 --> 00:13:36,699
OK.

352
00:13:36,699 --> 00:13:44,998
Um...this has been an ongoing problem

353
00:13:44,998 --> 00:13:50,043
since the opening of this

354
00:13:50,043 --> 00:13:52,440
transitional house. They

355
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,592
might not call it a

356
00:13:53,592 --> 00:13:57,191
transitional home. They may call it something else

357
00:13:57,191 --> 00:13:59,115
, but the reality is that it is what it

358
00:13:59,115 --> 00:14:02,920
is. It's a transitional house and,

359
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,720
um, it doesn't, contrary to what

360
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,620
the press releases from your department say, make

361
00:14:10,620 --> 00:14:16,970
Rutland any safer. On the

362
00:14:16,970 --> 00:14:18,920
contrary, it makes our neighborhood

363
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,770
less safe and the city

364
00:14:20,770 --> 00:14:26,611
less safe. For example, an article

365
00:14:26,611 --> 00:14:30,352
in the Rutland Herald from October 17,

366
00:14:30,352 --> 00:14:34,593
2022, begins like this: "A man

367
00:14:34,593 --> 00:14:36,583
sentenced to 15 to 35 years in prison

368
00:14:36,583 --> 00:14:38,374
after beating another man to

369
00:14:38,374 --> 00:14:40,364
death with a baseball bat is

370
00:14:40,364 --> 00:14:42,205
back in jail on a

371
00:14:42,205 --> 00:14:47,928
domestic assault charge." That happened...that

372
00:14:47,928 --> 00:14:52,420
resulted from a fight with a woman

373
00:14:52,420 --> 00:14:59,640
and her daughter who ended up on

374
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,406
my porch asking us to call

375
00:15:02,406 --> 00:15:06,797
the police. There's a...You

376
00:15:06,797 --> 00:15:08,486
put the guy who beat someone

377
00:15:08,486 --> 00:15:11,324
to death on our street. And it

378
00:15:11,324 --> 00:15:12,815
wasn't until he threatened...that he

379
00:15:12,815 --> 00:15:14,487
threatened to kill someone else or

380
00:15:14,487 --> 00:15:16,204
physically harm someone else,

381
00:15:16,204 --> 00:15:20,669
that the matter was addressed. And that was

382
00:15:20,669 --> 00:15:23,698
4 years ago. It has been an

383
00:15:23,698 --> 00:15:27,184
ongoing problem ever since. And it all

384
00:15:27,184 --> 00:15:29,642
stems, in a way, from the crime

385
00:15:29,642 --> 00:15:31,834
for which they were convicted, the

386
00:15:31,834 --> 00:15:33,893
pattern of, you know, if it was

387
00:15:33,893 --> 00:15:35,952
drug-related, there was

388
00:15:35,952 --> 00:15:39,812
drug activity there. If it was

389
00:15:39,812 --> 00:15:42,454
related to robbery, there was someone

390
00:15:42,454 --> 00:15:49,499
looking through my window. Um...And

391
00:15:49,499 --> 00:15:52,299
I have two small children, two

392
00:15:52,299 --> 00:15:55,160
years old and one year old. I can't, I can't

393
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,543
let them play in our own

394
00:15:57,543 --> 00:16:02,201
backyard for fear of their safety. Um,

395
00:16:02,201 --> 00:16:07,416
this is something I understand. I mean

396
00:16:07,416 --> 00:16:10,337
, people when they complete their sentence,

397
00:16:10,337 --> 00:16:13,186
whatever, and they're released on

398
00:16:13,186 --> 00:16:16,034
parole or probation because they

399
00:16:16,034 --> 00:16:18,956
behaved well in prison, because they didn't

400
00:16:18,956 --> 00:16:21,877
kill anyone with a baseball bat in there

401
00:16:21,877 --> 00:16:25,454
. Um, now they're letting them

402
00:16:25,454 --> 00:16:28,510
out. I understand there is a protocol and

403
00:16:28,510 --> 00:16:30,661
a mechanism and a need for...

404
00:16:30,661 --> 00:16:37,805
But...our city has contemplated in

405
00:16:37,805 --> 00:16:41,155
our zoning regulations

406
00:16:41,155 --> 00:16:47,881
that...um...that transitional homes

407
00:16:47,881 --> 00:16:50,715
are limited to a certain area and

408
00:16:50,715 --> 00:16:53,624
are approved by a conditional use permit

409
00:16:53,624 --> 00:16:57,166
. And to obtain

410
00:16:57,166 --> 00:16:59,530
conditional use permission, you have to

411
00:16:59,530 --> 00:17:03,096
be in a certain area. And this

412
00:17:03,096 --> 00:17:08,478
doesn't fall into that category. And certainly no

413
00:17:08,478 --> 00:17:10,822
permission was requested from

414
00:17:10,822 --> 00:17:13,512
Pathways, the owner, you, um,

415
00:17:13,512 --> 00:17:18,287
at all. So, I think there is

416
00:17:18,287 --> 00:17:20,583
simply a lack of respect for

417
00:17:20,583 --> 00:17:23,003
the city's preferences regarding the

418
00:17:23,003 --> 00:17:25,361
location of these facilities that

419
00:17:25,361 --> 00:17:29,886
has been completely

420
00:17:29,886 --> 00:17:35,927
ignored by the DOC. Um, but ultimately

421
00:17:35,927 --> 00:17:38,496
I want Evergreen Avenue to be a

422
00:17:38,496 --> 00:17:41,065
place where people feel

423
00:17:41,065 --> 00:17:45,416
safe. I want my children to be able to go

424
00:17:45,416 --> 00:17:49,740
to the backyard and feel safe.

425
00:17:49,740 --> 00:17:51,590
I want us to know

426
00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:53,706
who is coming in,

427
00:17:53,706 --> 00:17:55,609
who is going out, or who is going to cross the

428
00:17:55,609 --> 00:17:59,968
line without having to look over our shoulders. It's great what they've been

429
00:17:59,968 --> 00:18:01,575
trying to do over the last 2

430
00:18:01,575 --> 00:18:03,135
weeks to cut the grass and

431
00:18:03,135 --> 00:18:06,466
keep things in order. But there has

432
00:18:06,466 --> 00:18:08,891
been a great deal of neglect of this

433
00:18:08,891 --> 00:18:11,847
property by Pathways,

434
00:18:11,847 --> 00:18:14,727
the DOC, and the owner, with

435
00:18:14,727 --> 00:18:17,683
everyone passing the buck

436
00:18:17,683 --> 00:18:20,487
and ultimately

437
00:18:20,487 --> 00:18:26,460
terrorizing our neighborhood. And

438
00:18:26,460 --> 00:18:28,677
well, I mean, we just want a

439
00:18:28,677 --> 00:18:31,011
safe environment for our family to

440
00:18:31,011 --> 00:18:35,696
grow up in. And that won't happen while I

441
00:18:35,696 --> 00:18:39,729
'm there. They may limit who

442
00:18:39,729 --> 00:18:42,045
is there right now, but that doesn't

443
00:18:42,045 --> 00:18:45,709
solve the problem. It is only resolved

444
00:18:45,709 --> 00:18:48,283
when the entire house is closed and

445
00:18:48,283 --> 00:18:50,636
the inhabitants are moved to a

446
00:18:50,636 --> 00:18:54,787
different location. Preferably,

447
00:18:54,787 --> 00:18:56,839
they would respect the

448
00:18:56,839 --> 00:18:58,948
city's zoning and apply for a

449
00:18:58,948 --> 00:19:01,114
conditional use permit in a designated location

450
00:19:01,114 --> 00:19:03,109
, and follow the

451
00:19:03,109 --> 00:19:05,729
proper process in that way. In this way,

452
00:19:05,729 --> 00:19:08,085
there is an opportunity for

453
00:19:08,085 --> 00:19:10,374
neighboring property owners to express their

454
00:19:10,374 --> 00:19:14,380
concerns to the DRB at that time.

455
00:19:14,380 --> 00:19:21,179
That didn't happen here. But in the end

456
00:19:21,179 --> 00:19:24,064
we need a safe street and this

457
00:19:24,064 --> 00:19:26,727
isn't happening because, ultimately

458
00:19:26,727 --> 00:19:30,452
, you don't know what's

459
00:19:30,452 --> 00:19:33,837
coming next. Who is

460
00:19:33,837 --> 00:19:35,246
eligible for a temporary permit

461
00:19:35,246 --> 00:19:39,702
afterward? You know. Um, so

462
00:19:39,702 --> 00:19:42,341
we're really playing dice

463
00:19:42,341 --> 00:19:44,911
with every new resident they put

464
00:19:44,911 --> 00:19:47,688
there and we'd really prefer they

465
00:19:47,688 --> 00:19:50,119
close it down, both for the safety of

466
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,341
our street and the

467
00:19:52,341 --> 00:20:00,752
wider community. But in the end, I'm

468
00:20:00,752 --> 00:20:03,274
sorry. I say "in the end" a lot, but in the

469
00:20:03,274 --> 00:20:07,359
end, this is a horrible situation.

470
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,797
The DOC's arguments that

471
00:20:09,797 --> 00:20:12,507
this makes Rutland a safer area

472
00:20:12,507 --> 00:20:15,149
because of these facts are not the

473
00:20:15,149 --> 00:20:20,659
reality. It's quite the opposite. And the

474
00:20:20,659 --> 00:20:24,248
arguments are false. If they want to

475
00:20:24,248 --> 00:20:27,281
experience that, I encourage them to open

476
00:20:27,281 --> 00:20:30,313
a rehabilitation center next to

477
00:20:30,313 --> 00:20:33,671
their house. Um, and see what they think. It's

478
00:20:33,671 --> 00:20:36,609
horrible. It's been a nightmare every

479
00:20:36,609 --> 00:20:40,146
night for the past 4 years. And it doesn't matter

480
00:20:40,146 --> 00:20:45,801
if it's Y, as the boss said, they had

481
00:20:45,801 --> 00:20:47,594
who knows how many calls this

482
00:20:47,594 --> 00:20:50,098
past year. How many times did we

483
00:20:50,098 --> 00:20:51,707
simply not feel like

484
00:20:51,707 --> 00:20:57,446
calling again? Too many. And this has to

485
00:20:57,446 --> 00:21:03,499
stop. And as a city,

486
00:21:03,499 --> 00:21:09,788
if they allow this to continue. What they

487
00:21:09,788 --> 00:21:12,178
are causing is that every

488
00:21:12,178 --> 00:21:14,508
family district, every

489
00:21:14,508 --> 00:21:16,592
single-family residential district in the city, is at the

490
00:21:16,592 --> 00:21:21,212
mercy of anyone. How will

491
00:21:21,212 --> 00:21:26,665
that affect, you know, the relative, you know,

492
00:21:26,665 --> 00:21:30,932
perception of the city? And how does

493
00:21:30,932 --> 00:21:38,624
that influence, um, you know, what

494
00:21:38,624 --> 00:21:42,327
one can expect from their neighborhood? If

495
00:21:42,327 --> 00:21:43,683
you have a single-family district,

496
00:21:43,683 --> 00:21:46,397
you should expect certain things. And

497
00:21:46,397 --> 00:21:48,022
we're not getting that, and the whole

498
00:21:48,022 --> 00:21:49,504
city is exposed to that

499
00:21:49,504 --> 00:21:51,081
everywhere else, not just in

500
00:21:51,081 --> 00:21:53,620
Evergreen. Thank you.

501
00:21:53,620 --> 00:22:01,690
Okay, thank you very much. Okay, is there

502
00:22:01,690 --> 00:22:03,931
anyone else from the neighborhood or the

503
00:22:03,931 --> 00:22:06,435
audience who would like to talk about

504
00:22:06,435 --> 00:22:08,873
this, perhaps about a part we

505
00:22:08,873 --> 00:22:11,773
haven't heard? Oh, okay. Oh I'm

506
00:22:11,773 --> 00:22:21,670
sorry. Right here. Well,

507
00:22:21,670 --> 00:22:23,230
they're applauding. That's a good

508
00:22:23,230 --> 00:22:28,124
sign.

509
00:22:28,124 --> 00:22:30,602
Angela DeAngelo, 79 Evergreen.

510
00:22:30,602 --> 00:22:31,299
Thank you.

511
00:22:31,299 --> 00:22:32,979
That used to be our house. We had

512
00:22:32,979 --> 00:22:34,945
that house for, I don't know how many years, 30

513
00:22:34,945 --> 00:22:37,019
years or more. It was a big house, and

514
00:22:37,019 --> 00:22:37,496
yes.

515
00:22:37,496 --> 00:22:38,985
When we sold it, the guy said, "

516
00:22:38,985 --> 00:22:40,484
What are your tenants like?" We said, "

517
00:22:40,484 --> 00:22:41,683
They're great." He said, "Fine, I'll

518
00:22:41,683 --> 00:22:43,190
keep them." Before we even started

519
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:44,382
signing on the dotted line,

520
00:22:44,382 --> 00:22:45,826
they received an eviction notice. So it was

521
00:22:45,826 --> 00:22:47,212
never what it was supposed to

522
00:22:47,212 --> 00:22:49,807
be. Approximately one year

523
00:22:49,807 --> 00:22:51,422
after selling it, I spoke with Sharon

524
00:22:51,422 --> 00:22:52,956
Davis several times because something was going on

525
00:22:52,956 --> 00:22:54,447
there. We thought it was some kind of

526
00:22:54,447 --> 00:22:56,357
rehabilitation house. Legally,

527
00:22:56,357 --> 00:23:01,046
nothing indicated that it was. And does it make

528
00:23:01,046 --> 00:23:03,355
any sense for someone to take

529
00:23:03,355 --> 00:23:07,978
this rehabilitation house and the

530
00:23:07,978 --> 00:23:09,537
important thing is their history, their

531
00:23:09,537 --> 00:23:11,347
criminal history, it's a

532
00:23:11,347 --> 00:23:14,920
criminal history? So why put

533
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,240
that in a quiet residential neighborhood

534
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:17,680
with people trying to

535
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,880
raise their families? I mean, I grew up

536
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,835
here, you know, on this street. We've

537
00:23:21,835 --> 00:23:23,581
been on that street for about 40, more

538
00:23:23,581 --> 00:23:26,135
than 40 years, probably 50. It's a

539
00:23:26,135 --> 00:23:27,584
great street, it's a great street. It's a

540
00:23:27,584 --> 00:23:29,838
great neighborhood, but it doesn't make sense

541
00:23:29,838 --> 00:23:31,729
to me. And this guy just

542
00:23:31,729 --> 00:23:33,431
said that calls to the police

543
00:23:33,431 --> 00:23:35,225
there over the last year, just the

544
00:23:35,225 --> 00:23:38,519
last year, are ridiculously high.

545
00:23:38,519 --> 00:23:41,098
I live at the other end of the dead-

546
00:23:41,098 --> 00:23:43,484
end street and every time you pass by, there's sometimes

547
00:23:43,484 --> 00:23:45,741
something going on almost every

548
00:23:45,741 --> 00:23:48,419
day, as my neighbor can attest.

549
00:23:48,419 --> 00:23:51,079
But now, today, yesterday,

550
00:23:51,079 --> 00:23:53,655
something was happening. There were many cars

551
00:23:53,655 --> 00:23:55,755
there, and they looked like unmarked cars. I can't say

552
00:23:55,755 --> 00:23:57,790
for sure, but something was

553
00:23:57,790 --> 00:24:00,211
happening just yesterday. So, give us

554
00:24:00,211 --> 00:24:02,524
a break. Let's do the right thing for the

555
00:24:02,524 --> 00:24:03,975
city and for the people who live in this

556
00:24:03,975 --> 00:24:05,166
neighborhood, because they are

557
00:24:05,166 --> 00:24:07,070
really good people.

558
00:24:07,070 --> 00:24:09,239
OK. Well, thank you very much.

559
00:24:09,239 --> 00:24:16,235
Thank you. Alright. Is there anyone else from the

560
00:24:16,235 --> 00:24:19,111
neighborhood or the general public

561
00:24:19,111 --> 00:24:21,851
who would like to talk about this?

562
00:24:21,851 --> 00:24:26,465
OK. Very good. Thank you. Thank you for

563
00:24:26,465 --> 00:24:28,703
raising your hand. It's good to see.

564
00:24:28,703 --> 00:24:30,886
Thank you. Kindly, if you could just

565
00:24:30,886 --> 00:24:32,322
for the registration, your name and

566
00:24:32,322 --> 00:24:34,140
address and your name, and then you can

567
00:24:34,140 --> 00:24:35,261
continue.

568
00:24:35,261 --> 00:24:37,499
Uh, my name is Scott Robertson. I live

569
00:24:37,499 --> 00:24:39,880
at 41 Evergreen.

570
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,320
OK. The apartment is yours.

571
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:49,155
I moved there in January 2020. Um, I'm getting to

572
00:24:49,189 --> 00:24:52,004
know Katrina there. And looking at

573
00:24:52,004 --> 00:24:54,441
the house and the neighborhood, it was a

574
00:24:54,441 --> 00:24:57,972
very quiet place. I was very happy once I

575
00:24:57,972 --> 00:25:01,503
moved there. And so, the

576
00:25:01,503 --> 00:25:03,850
people who resided in that building

577
00:25:03,850 --> 00:25:06,258
at that time were long-

578
00:25:06,258 --> 00:25:09,447
term residents. Very calm, peaceful, and

579
00:25:09,447 --> 00:25:14,320
friendly people. Um, and then the house was sold. They

580
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,770
were all evicted. Um, and then

581
00:25:18,770 --> 00:25:26,141
this started. I

582
00:25:26,141 --> 00:25:28,875
'm often not around during the day. I usually

583
00:25:28,875 --> 00:25:31,840
work in the northern part of the state. I

584
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,513
leave between 5:00 and 6:00 in the

585
00:25:33,513 --> 00:25:35,275
morning and arrive home between 5:00 and

586
00:25:35,275 --> 00:25:40,655
6:00 at night. But, um, the

587
00:25:40,655 --> 00:25:43,717
nighttime activity is what bothers me the most

588
00:25:43,717 --> 00:25:48,875
. I don't see the patrol cars

589
00:25:48,875 --> 00:25:52,181
during the day, or, um, I myself have to

590
00:25:52,181 --> 00:25:55,313
, I feel like I have to keep my

591
00:25:55,313 --> 00:25:58,445
blinds closed 24 hours a

592
00:25:58,445 --> 00:26:01,838
day because I see them walking up and

593
00:26:01,838 --> 00:26:05,318
down my driveway, the residents of

594
00:26:05,318 --> 00:26:11,500
43rd. They've broken into my cars twice.

595
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:13,738
Um, and I received a tip from another neighbor

596
00:26:13,738 --> 00:26:16,034
who happened to wake up in the middle of the

597
00:26:16,034 --> 00:26:17,978
night and see people snooping

598
00:26:17,978 --> 00:26:20,157
around my cars in the driveway

599
00:26:20,157 --> 00:26:26,249
for the third time. Um, it's simply an

600
00:26:26,249 --> 00:26:29,034
unsustainable situation and I feel we were

601
00:26:29,034 --> 00:26:31,668
never given the opportunity to

602
00:26:31,668 --> 00:26:34,604
express our opinion before

603
00:26:34,604 --> 00:26:38,227
this change occurred. Um, we were never

604
00:26:38,227 --> 00:26:40,595
asked if we thought it was a

605
00:26:40,595 --> 00:26:42,900
good idea. Never, we never had

606
00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:45,398
any opportunity to give our

607
00:26:45,398 --> 00:26:49,565
opinion. Um, so I'd like to see

608
00:26:49,565 --> 00:26:53,860
this change. It is, it is unsustainable.

609
00:26:53,860 --> 00:26:56,693
Katrina indicated that my grandchildren live in

610
00:26:56,693 --> 00:26:59,922
Florida. They're coming for a couple of weeks

611
00:26:59,922 --> 00:27:02,925
during the summer. I can't let them stay

612
00:27:02,925 --> 00:27:08,675
with me. Because I'm not going to put them,

613
00:27:08,739 --> 00:27:11,502
or myself, in that situation. It's simply

614
00:27:11,502 --> 00:27:14,647
not safe. Um, as

615
00:27:14,647 --> 00:27:17,523
our other neighbor indicated,

616
00:27:17,523 --> 00:27:20,812
the house has been cleaned in recent weeks. The

617
00:27:20,812 --> 00:27:22,590
trash and debris have been

618
00:27:22,590 --> 00:27:24,713
removed from the porch facing my

619
00:27:24,713 --> 00:27:30,700
house. Um, the grass has been cut.

620
00:27:30,700 --> 00:27:32,553
Maybe it was 6 weeks ago that it was cut for the

621
00:27:32,553 --> 00:27:34,784
first time all summer. The grass

622
00:27:34,784 --> 00:27:37,969
was this high. Um, there are still

623
00:27:37,969 --> 00:27:39,959
bits of grass all over the sidewalk. It

624
00:27:39,959 --> 00:27:45,053
still looks like a disaster. Um. The

625
00:27:45,053 --> 00:27:50,182
lack of maintenance is terrible. Um,

626
00:27:50,182 --> 00:27:52,679
it's just that it's ruining the

627
00:27:52,679 --> 00:27:58,078
neighborhood and making our lives not the way they

628
00:27:58,078 --> 00:28:01,343
should be. So that's all I have to

629
00:28:01,343 --> 00:28:03,149
say. I don't have any

630
00:28:03,149 --> 00:28:04,809
notes prepared or anything like that.

631
00:28:04,809 --> 00:28:06,728
That's ok. You did well. You

632
00:28:06,728 --> 00:28:15,050
did very well. Okay, anyone else?

633
00:28:15,050 --> 00:28:16,109
I have to say that I can't.

634
00:28:16,109 --> 00:28:20,081
Okay, you can sit down. Well, we

635
00:28:20,081 --> 00:28:24,039
know her better than that.

636
00:28:24,039 --> 00:28:26,971
Okay, my name is Karen and um, I bought

637
00:28:26,971 --> 00:28:29,978
3941 Evergreen Avenue long before

638
00:28:29,978 --> 00:28:33,332
we had Katrina. And it was a

639
00:28:33,332 --> 00:28:35,584
lovely neighborhood, and I grew up on

640
00:28:35,584 --> 00:28:37,896
M and M Avenue where my mom, who is

641
00:28:37,896 --> 00:28:40,597
very old, lives there. And um, I

642
00:28:40,597 --> 00:28:44,141
worry about her constantly. Um,

643
00:28:44,141 --> 00:28:46,188
with all this mess that's going on

644
00:28:46,188 --> 00:28:49,241
here. I don't understand how this happened, and

645
00:28:49,241 --> 00:28:51,992
I think Corrections, or the DOC, or the

646
00:28:51,992 --> 00:28:54,469
city, I think we have enough

647
00:28:54,469 --> 00:28:57,083
smart people in this city to

648
00:28:57,083 --> 00:29:00,480
realize that this is wrong.

649
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,719
We need to change this. I mean,

650
00:29:03,719 --> 00:29:05,239
we're paying a lot of taxes to

651
00:29:05,239 --> 00:29:07,253
live there. Why is

652
00:29:07,253 --> 00:29:11,480
this happening? Can anyone tell me?

653
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,198
No.

654
00:29:13,198 --> 00:29:16,040
Really? It's disgusting. I'm sorry.

655
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:17,059
Okay, Karen.

656
00:29:17,059 --> 00:29:18,405
You think in an

657
00:29:18,405 --> 00:29:20,030
intelligent way, because I, I know that

658
00:29:20,030 --> 00:29:22,828
everyone is intelligent. Suggest something

659
00:29:22,828 --> 00:29:24,968
where, um, they can have a

660
00:29:24,968 --> 00:29:27,729
safe neighborhood again. And that means

661
00:29:27,729 --> 00:29:29,597
, you know, they're paying a

662
00:29:29,597 --> 00:29:31,851
lot of taxes. There are many children around

663
00:29:31,851 --> 00:29:34,702
. Um, there are some older people around

664
00:29:34,702 --> 00:29:37,761
. And these people have made mistakes

665
00:29:37,761 --> 00:29:40,657
. They don't belong there. They are not

666
00:29:40,657 --> 00:29:44,380
supervised. And this needs to stop.

667
00:29:44,380 --> 00:29:48,624
That's all I have to say.

668
00:29:48,624 --> 00:29:50,704
Very good. If anyone has anything they would

669
00:29:50,704 --> 00:29:53,044
like to add. Tom, I'm going to, I'm going to

670
00:29:53,044 --> 00:29:54,893
open the shift for everyone in the

671
00:29:54,893 --> 00:29:56,875
legislative delegation. I will make sure

672
00:29:56,875 --> 00:29:58,289
the public has their chance

673
00:29:58,289 --> 00:29:58,680
first.

674
00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,419
Understood.

675
00:29:59,419 --> 00:30:00,460
Thank you. I

676
00:30:00,460 --> 00:30:01,619
'll be brief.

677
00:30:01,619 --> 00:30:03,641
If you like, you certainly can do it.

678
00:30:03,641 --> 00:30:04,914
Good.

679
00:30:04,914 --> 00:30:06,833
And if I could kindly ask for your

680
00:30:06,833 --> 00:30:08,907
name and address for registration.

681
00:30:08,907 --> 00:30:11,009
Clear. My name is Chris Sweeney. I am

682
00:30:11,009 --> 00:30:13,608
Katrina's husband. Uh, we've

683
00:30:13,608 --> 00:30:16,451
remodeled those apartments, 41 and

684
00:30:16,451 --> 00:30:19,735
43. Uh, I just wanted to, I'll be

685
00:30:19,735 --> 00:30:21,327
brief. I am a person with

686
00:30:21,327 --> 00:30:23,131
very strong opinions. I'm not going to get into that.

687
00:30:23,131 --> 00:30:25,311
I think this is a pretty

688
00:30:25,311 --> 00:30:28,759
classic case of suicidal empathy. It is not

689
00:30:28,759 --> 00:30:31,227
right to put the residents of that

690
00:30:31,227 --> 00:30:33,378
street in danger for people

691
00:30:33,378 --> 00:30:36,121
seeking a second chance. The

692
00:30:36,121 --> 00:30:38,084
citizens of that street must come

693
00:30:38,084 --> 00:30:40,021
first. So that's all I have to

694
00:30:40,021 --> 00:30:40,929
say.

695
00:30:40,929 --> 00:30:42,499
OK. Thank you, Chris.

696
00:30:42,499 --> 00:30:47,029
Thank you. Thank you so much. Good. Have

697
00:30:47,029 --> 00:30:48,994
all members of the

698
00:30:48,994 --> 00:30:52,127
public been heard? I'm going to open the

699
00:30:52,127 --> 00:30:54,529
floor to any member of our

700
00:30:54,529 --> 00:30:56,736
legislative delegation who wishes to

701
00:30:56,736 --> 00:30:59,139
speak or say something about what they've

702
00:30:59,139 --> 00:31:01,281
heard, whatever it may be, and Tom, if

703
00:31:01,281 --> 00:31:03,814
you want to start, you certainly may

704
00:31:03,814 --> 00:31:04,700
. I need to

705
00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:05,968
see if they accept people from outside

706
00:31:05,968 --> 00:31:08,340
the city or not.

707
00:31:08,340 --> 00:31:10,328
Well, we don't normally accept anyone

708
00:31:10,328 --> 00:31:14,953
from West Rutland, but since you've

709
00:31:14,953 --> 00:31:15,760
been here

710
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,461
for 40 years... I know you did it

711
00:31:17,461 --> 00:31:19,880
. I know you did it.

712
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,860
Good. So, Tom Burditt.

713
00:31:21,860 --> 00:31:22,313
Yes.

714
00:31:22,313 --> 00:31:23,959
my name is Tom Burditt. I am a

715
00:31:23,959 --> 00:31:26,975
state representative for West Rutland.

716
00:31:26,975 --> 00:31:27,593
Thank you.

717
00:31:27,593 --> 00:31:29,807
And vice chairman of the House Judiciary Committee

718
00:31:29,807 --> 00:31:32,958
. And what comes to

719
00:31:32,958 --> 00:31:34,886
mind, one of the things is, you know,

720
00:31:34,886 --> 00:31:36,764
with this demographic group, I guess you

721
00:31:36,764 --> 00:31:38,439
could say, is that there are

722
00:31:38,439 --> 00:31:41,678
some negative elements. And it doesn't

723
00:31:41,678 --> 00:31:43,344
matter how many, I don't think it matters

724
00:31:43,344 --> 00:31:45,099
how many you have in a house, whether you

725
00:31:45,099 --> 00:31:47,798
have one, two, four, or ten. If

726
00:31:47,798 --> 00:31:49,409
someone is going to cause trouble, they

727
00:31:49,409 --> 00:31:51,885
will cause it no matter where they are. And

728
00:31:51,885 --> 00:31:54,122
maybe, you know, the number of

729
00:31:54,122 --> 00:31:56,730
people at Evergreen should be reduced. I do

730
00:31:56,730 --> 00:32:00,242
n't know. But what worries me

731
00:32:00,242 --> 00:32:02,522
is whether the laws we have are

732
00:32:02,522 --> 00:32:04,932
strong enough to solve this

733
00:32:04,932 --> 00:32:08,791
problem. I'm pretty sure that,

734
00:32:08,791 --> 00:32:11,025
in some cases, when there's a

735
00:32:11,025 --> 00:32:13,734
violation of probation or

736
00:32:13,734 --> 00:32:15,833
conditions, someone doesn't

737
00:32:15,833 --> 00:32:18,338
necessarily have to go back to

738
00:32:18,338 --> 00:32:21,950
jail. Uh, or he could go back to

739
00:32:21,950 --> 00:32:24,346
jail. There could be other

740
00:32:24,346 --> 00:32:27,737
ramifications, I suppose. But something that

741
00:32:27,737 --> 00:32:30,499
comes to mind is that we had a

742
00:32:30,499 --> 00:32:33,260
bill in committee

743
00:32:33,260 --> 00:32:36,167
last year that will be reintroduced this

744
00:32:36,167 --> 00:32:39,990
year and hopefully will gain momentum. And what

745
00:32:39,990 --> 00:32:42,887
the bill did or does is

746
00:32:42,887 --> 00:32:47,089
, uh, there's an epidemic in the state of

747
00:32:47,089 --> 00:32:48,756
failure to appear in court

748
00:32:48,756 --> 00:32:53,092
. And what happens to those people who do

749
00:32:53,092 --> 00:32:55,946
n't appear in court? They

750
00:32:55,946 --> 00:32:58,853
could be sent to jail,

751
00:32:58,853 --> 00:33:01,668
but they aren't. They are given another paper

752
00:33:01,668 --> 00:33:04,213
that says they have another date to

753
00:33:04,213 --> 00:33:06,757
appear in court, and they don't

754
00:33:06,757 --> 00:33:09,443
show up, and it happens again and again and again

755
00:33:09,443 --> 00:33:12,940
. And what happens with the bill is,

756
00:33:12,940 --> 00:33:16,025
if it's not filed, they find him,

757
00:33:16,025 --> 00:33:20,234
arrest him, and take him to jail. And

758
00:33:20,234 --> 00:33:22,728
maybe I need to go through something like this with

759
00:33:22,728 --> 00:33:24,951
this, because I have to believe that

760
00:33:24,951 --> 00:33:27,175
some of these people are

761
00:33:27,175 --> 00:33:30,778
violating their conditions. And

762
00:33:30,778 --> 00:33:33,572
I'm certainly willing to work with the chief,

763
00:33:33,572 --> 00:33:36,227
the city attorney, the

764
00:33:36,227 --> 00:33:38,951
state attorney, with whom I've already worked, and

765
00:33:38,951 --> 00:33:41,864
put something together. And from there, it's very

766
00:33:41,864 --> 00:33:43,841
likely that it won't go through my committee; It will

767
00:33:43,841 --> 00:33:45,720
go to the corrections committee, a

768
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,013
bill like that. But just to get

769
00:33:48,013 --> 00:33:49,968
something started, because, again, you take

770
00:33:49,968 --> 00:33:51,728
these people and move them, and I'm

771
00:33:51,728 --> 00:33:53,600
totally in favor of moving them. I

772
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,630
mean, that neighborhood has

773
00:33:55,630 --> 00:33:57,951
had enough, and I think they need to

774
00:33:57,951 --> 00:34:00,569
go somewhere else. But if we

775
00:34:00,569 --> 00:34:03,243
move them to another neighborhood, there will be

776
00:34:03,243 --> 00:34:06,443
similar problems. And these people

777
00:34:06,443 --> 00:34:09,636
are violating their conditions and

778
00:34:09,636 --> 00:34:12,324
perhaps need more than a

779
00:34:12,324 --> 00:34:15,349
little talk and a pat on the

780
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:17,776
wrist. Maybe they'll need to spend, you

781
00:34:17,776 --> 00:34:19,725
know, a few nights on the

782
00:34:19,725 --> 00:34:22,133
corner of Pierpont and State. Thank you. You are

783
00:34:22,133 --> 00:34:25,185
welcome. Thanks, Tom. So, before

784
00:34:25,185 --> 00:34:27,136
the meeting began, I

785
00:34:27,136 --> 00:34:29,265
asked the commissioner if he wanted to

786
00:34:29,265 --> 00:34:32,115
speak. He said he wanted to listen to the

787
00:34:32,115 --> 00:34:35,180
neighbors. At any time during

788
00:34:35,180 --> 00:34:37,360
this meeting, you are more than welcome

789
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,346
to stand up and speak. They don't have to

790
00:34:39,346 --> 00:34:42,679
, but they certainly can. And I'm going

791
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,879
to ask if there's anyone else, whether

792
00:34:45,879 --> 00:34:48,143
from the delegation. I want to ask you

793
00:34:48,143 --> 00:34:49,960
first why you are our guests.

794
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,867
If they want to say something, they don't have to

795
00:34:51,867 --> 00:34:54,455
. They are here to listen. You

796
00:34:54,455 --> 00:34:56,845
know, bring some ideas, like what you just

797
00:34:56,845 --> 00:34:59,117
heard from Tom, back to

798
00:34:59,117 --> 00:35:01,384
the Capitol. Those of you who

799
00:35:01,384 --> 00:35:03,354
will be returning to the Capitol, perhaps

800
00:35:03,354 --> 00:35:06,083
we can accomplish something in January. That's the

801
00:35:06,083 --> 00:35:09,693
underlying problem with all of this. It's, you

802
00:35:09,693 --> 00:35:11,726
know, what do we do with the people

803
00:35:11,726 --> 00:35:13,385
who come in and out through the

804
00:35:13,385 --> 00:35:16,526
revolving door? There is no doubt about it. And,

805
00:35:16,526 --> 00:35:18,837
uh, I hope some eyes and ears

806
00:35:18,837 --> 00:35:21,335
are open to what this means

807
00:35:21,335 --> 00:35:23,949
in practice for people. Not

808
00:35:23,949 --> 00:35:26,204
just in Rolling City, but all over, um, the

809
00:35:26,204 --> 00:35:28,560
entire state. Uh, especially in

810
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,009
the larger communities that, you

811
00:35:30,009 --> 00:35:32,659
know, are bearing the brunt of it.

812
00:35:32,659 --> 00:35:34,366
So I'll ask one more time, I'm going

813
00:35:34,366 --> 00:35:35,766
to address the councilor, I want to

814
00:35:35,766 --> 00:35:37,299
ask our guests, to

815
00:35:37,299 --> 00:35:38,655
make sure everyone has a

816
00:35:38,655 --> 00:35:41,502
chance to speak. Would you like to

817
00:35:41,502 --> 00:35:43,848
talk, Commissioner? He certainly can

818
00:35:43,848 --> 00:35:46,840
do it. He certainly can do it.

819
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,121
Uh, my name is John, I'm the

820
00:35:50,177 --> 00:35:52,101
Vermont Department of Correction Commissioner, and I wanted to

821
00:35:52,101 --> 00:35:53,628
assure everyone here,

822
00:35:53,628 --> 00:35:55,382
especially the residents of

823
00:35:55,382 --> 00:35:57,777
Evergreen, that we hear you. Hey,

824
00:35:57,777 --> 00:35:59,779
we're here. Uh, a large number of

825
00:35:59,779 --> 00:36:01,236
us from the Department of Correction

826
00:36:01,236 --> 00:36:03,940
are here. I've been in touch.

827
00:36:03,940 --> 00:36:05,914
Uh, I had an excellent and long

828
00:36:05,914 --> 00:36:08,335
conversation with Chief Prouty

829
00:36:08,335 --> 00:36:10,991
two weeks ago. I had a conversation with

830
00:36:10,991 --> 00:36:13,854
the mayor. Um, this is something that has been on our minds

831
00:36:13,854 --> 00:36:15,990
and we are seriously considering

832
00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:18,792
it. Uh, after my meeting

833
00:36:18,792 --> 00:36:20,710
with the boss, I went to Evergreen and talked

834
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:22,628
to people who were leaving the park and

835
00:36:22,628 --> 00:36:25,662
walking their dogs. Uh, and I got

836
00:36:25,662 --> 00:36:28,102
a sense of that neighborhood. It's a

837
00:36:28,102 --> 00:36:30,455
beautiful street and a lovely place for

838
00:36:30,455 --> 00:36:33,333
families. Right now, we have

839
00:36:33,333 --> 00:36:35,797
two people in that location, uh, not

840
00:36:35,797 --> 00:36:38,873
four. Um, we're exploring other

841
00:36:38,873 --> 00:36:42,346
options. Uh, we're also open

842
00:36:42,346 --> 00:36:44,517
to new ideas, but I want to reinforce the

843
00:36:44,517 --> 00:36:46,416
idea that an individual who has

844
00:36:46,416 --> 00:36:48,587
housing when released is safer

845
00:36:48,587 --> 00:36:50,595
for everyone, both for that individual

846
00:36:50,595 --> 00:36:52,766
and for the community, than a person

847
00:36:52,766 --> 00:36:56,586
who does not have housing. Uh, in Vermont

848
00:36:56,586 --> 00:37:00,480
we emphasize the idea of ​​liberation.

849
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,639
There are several statutes that use the

850
00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:04,857
phrase "less restrictive" in terms of

851
00:37:04,857 --> 00:37:07,075
how we detain people, both

852
00:37:07,075 --> 00:37:09,118
in the sense of mental health custody

853
00:37:09,118 --> 00:37:10,869
and in the sense of

854
00:37:10,869 --> 00:37:14,344
jail custody, prison or jail. Um, in

855
00:37:14,344 --> 00:37:18,267
Vermont, uh, we have 1,700

856
00:37:18,267 --> 00:37:21,545
people incarcerated. That's the

857
00:37:21,545 --> 00:37:23,518
lowest number of any state,

858
00:37:23,518 --> 00:37:26,199
other than Massachusetts, per capita.

859
00:37:26,199 --> 00:37:28,929
And that includes detainees and

860
00:37:28,929 --> 00:37:31,468
sentenced individuals. The ratio is

861
00:37:31,468 --> 00:37:33,652
approximately 40% and 60%. 40% are

862
00:37:33,652 --> 00:37:36,221
people detained awaiting

863
00:37:36,221 --> 00:37:39,256
sentencing or trial, and about 60% are

864
00:37:39,256 --> 00:37:42,948
sentenced. Uh, the other 4,800

865
00:37:42,948 --> 00:37:44,501
people who are under the

866
00:37:44,501 --> 00:37:46,164
supervision of the Department of

867
00:37:46,164 --> 00:37:49,006
Correction are in the community.

868
00:37:49,006 --> 00:37:51,709
That is a legislative decision. This

869
00:37:51,709 --> 00:37:53,717
is how our legislature and

870
00:37:53,717 --> 00:37:56,640
judicial system work. And for

871
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,786
many, that's the right choice:

872
00:37:58,786 --> 00:38:01,044
to be in the community instead of being

873
00:38:01,044 --> 00:38:04,113
incarcerated. Um, I think, as

874
00:38:04,113 --> 00:38:06,231
Chief Prouty said, there may be cases where

875
00:38:06,231 --> 00:38:08,291
that might not be the best

876
00:38:08,291 --> 00:38:10,901
option for people. I hear your

877
00:38:10,901 --> 00:38:13,458
idea of ​​a stricter response

878
00:38:13,458 --> 00:38:16,453
regarding bail. Some of

879
00:38:16,453 --> 00:38:18,438
you may know that I was

880
00:38:18,438 --> 00:38:20,423
police chief in Burlington for several

881
00:38:20,423 --> 00:38:22,513
years before taking this position for the

882
00:38:22,513 --> 00:38:25,249
state. That's something I also saw in

883
00:38:25,249 --> 00:38:27,946
Burlington. We have observed the

884
00:38:27,946 --> 00:38:29,817
creation, by Governor

885
00:38:29,817 --> 00:38:31,429
Scott, of the so-called court of

886
00:38:31,429 --> 00:38:33,300
accountability, which began in

887
00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:35,119
Chittenden County, but has been

888
00:38:35,119 --> 00:38:38,599
successful here. We have analyzed the

889
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:40,625
idea of ​​moving people

890
00:38:40,625 --> 00:38:42,761
through the system more quickly

891
00:38:42,761 --> 00:38:44,623
, that is, through the

892
00:38:44,623 --> 00:38:46,814
trial stage, the due process part of the

893
00:38:46,814 --> 00:38:48,621
system, and, when necessary,

894
00:38:48,621 --> 00:38:50,428
using incarceration as a

895
00:38:50,428 --> 00:38:52,455
response to people's illegal and

896
00:38:52,455 --> 00:38:55,686
criminal behavior. Regarding the

897
00:38:55,686 --> 00:38:57,533
work here in Rutland, I am

898
00:38:57,533 --> 00:38:59,953
proud to say that our

899
00:38:59,953 --> 00:39:02,183
Rutland probation office

900
00:39:02,183 --> 00:39:03,966
works very closely with the

901
00:39:03,966 --> 00:39:07,099
Rutland Police Department.

902
00:39:07,099 --> 00:39:09,339
Our district manager, Justin, is

903
00:39:09,339 --> 00:39:11,467
someone who is very involved with

904
00:39:11,467 --> 00:39:14,486
the police. We've been paying closer attention

905
00:39:14,486 --> 00:39:16,513
to the property in question since

906
00:39:16,513 --> 00:39:18,646
these issues arose, but we

907
00:39:18,646 --> 00:39:21,239
're taking it very, very seriously.

908
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:22,836
I hear the concerns that have been

909
00:39:22,836 --> 00:39:25,495
expressed tonight. We'll revisit

910
00:39:25,495 --> 00:39:27,285
this in the broadcast with other

911
00:39:27,285 --> 00:39:29,391
parts of the team and take it very

912
00:39:29,391 --> 00:39:32,463
seriously. And I am very grateful for the

913
00:39:32,463 --> 00:39:34,282
opportunity to speak before this

914
00:39:34,282 --> 00:39:36,252
body, both to the council members and

915
00:39:36,252 --> 00:39:38,210
to the residents.

916
00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:40,096
Good, commissioner. Thank you so much for

917
00:39:40,096 --> 00:39:42,215
that. Thank you. So I'm going to go over here

918
00:39:42,215 --> 00:39:44,095
inside the railing and see which

919
00:39:44,095 --> 00:39:46,137
board members

920
00:39:46,137 --> 00:39:47,914
wish to speak. And it seems we have

921
00:39:47,914 --> 00:39:49,266
several hands raised, so I'm going to

922
00:39:49,266 --> 00:39:50,548
give the floor. Larry wants to

923
00:39:50,548 --> 00:39:52,118
go first. Councilman Reilly.

924
00:39:52,118 --> 00:39:53,740
Thank you, Mr. President. Is there

925
00:39:53,740 --> 00:39:55,633
anyone here from Pathways

926
00:39:55,633 --> 00:39:58,840
representing Pathways tonight?

927
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,880
Behind you. I

928
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,840
just have a couple of questions if...

929
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,526
you wish to answer, you certainly may

930
00:40:08,526 --> 00:40:10,680
, but you are not obligated to. Please

931
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,509
excuse my stumble while speaking.

932
00:40:13,509 --> 00:40:16,646
Who is responsible for that house in

933
00:40:16,646 --> 00:40:19,360
terms of maintenance and

934
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,581
ensuring that the occupants do

935
00:40:22,581 --> 00:40:26,819
what they are supposed to do? Is there

936
00:40:26,819 --> 00:40:28,980
staff on site?

937
00:40:28,980 --> 00:40:31,695
There are staff present at the location.

938
00:40:31,695 --> 00:40:34,781
Sorry? Yes please.

939
00:40:34,781 --> 00:40:37,880
Yes, if I could. So, yes. Thank you

940
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:39,886
. Thank you. I don't want to put you on the

941
00:40:39,886 --> 00:40:41,614
spot, but this is your chance

942
00:40:41,614 --> 00:40:43,252
to give your side of the story

943
00:40:43,252 --> 00:40:45,035
too, and that would be a great help.

944
00:40:45,035 --> 00:40:46,525
So, if I could ask for your name

945
00:40:46,525 --> 00:40:46,988
too.

946
00:40:46,988 --> 00:40:48,558
Clear. Well, my name is Sierra

947
00:40:48,558 --> 00:40:49,970
Streeter, and I'm the

948
00:40:49,970 --> 00:40:51,852
statewide housing operations manager

949
00:40:51,852 --> 00:40:53,965
for Pathways Vermont. I work closely

950
00:40:53,965 --> 00:40:55,882
with the Department of

951
00:40:55,882 --> 00:40:57,639
Corrections staff for the

952
00:40:57,639 --> 00:40:59,397
transitional housing program that supports

953
00:40:59,397 --> 00:41:01,260
individuals at 43 Evergreen and other

954
00:41:01,260 --> 00:41:02,340
properties.

955
00:41:02,340 --> 00:41:03,660
Understood.

956
00:41:03,660 --> 00:41:05,940
First of all, I

957
00:41:05,940 --> 00:41:08,220
want to echo the

958
00:41:08,220 --> 00:41:10,701
Commissioner's statement that

959
00:41:10,701 --> 00:41:13,317
Pathways also listens to you and wants you to

960
00:41:13,317 --> 00:41:15,597
know that you are being heard, that we

961
00:41:15,597 --> 00:41:18,011
take what you say very seriously and

962
00:41:18,011 --> 00:41:21,355
validate your points. So I just

963
00:41:21,355 --> 00:41:22,986
wanted to start by saying that to all of

964
00:41:22,986 --> 00:41:26,280
you.

965
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:27,852
As for who is responsible for

966
00:41:27,852 --> 00:41:29,467
that particular property, I believe that

967
00:41:29,467 --> 00:41:31,640
was Aldama Cooley's question.

968
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,607
Yes. We have a

969
00:41:33,607 --> 00:41:35,427
lease agreement with the

970
00:41:35,427 --> 00:41:38,256
building owner. Maintenance, such as mowing

971
00:41:38,256 --> 00:41:41,138
the lawn, clearing snow, and removing

972
00:41:41,138 --> 00:41:43,650
trash, are included in

973
00:41:43,650 --> 00:41:46,903
our rental agreement with the owner. I can

974
00:41:46,903 --> 00:41:49,066
talk about the lawn mowing situation

975
00:41:49,066 --> 00:41:52,625
. One of the

976
00:41:52,625 --> 00:41:56,218
maintenance people was unable to work. And I

977
00:41:56,218 --> 00:41:57,788
was looking for someone else to

978
00:41:57,788 --> 00:42:00,250
do it. We weren't

979
00:42:00,250 --> 00:42:02,627
immediately aware of that. So I

980
00:42:02,627 --> 00:42:04,294
apologize because the property did not

981
00:42:04,294 --> 00:42:05,859
meet the

982
00:42:05,859 --> 00:42:07,779
community's needs and expectations regarding

983
00:42:07,779 --> 00:42:09,293
lawn mowing.

984
00:42:09,293 --> 00:42:10,542
Okay, and a follow-up question.

985
00:42:10,542 --> 00:42:11,236
Forward.

986
00:42:11,236 --> 00:42:13,585
If you'll allow me, one more question.

987
00:42:13,585 --> 00:42:15,568
Is the property owner a

988
00:42:15,568 --> 00:42:18,044
local resident? Are they a resident of the

989
00:42:18,044 --> 00:42:19,940
state? I

990
00:42:19,940 --> 00:42:21,847
don't know his home address

991
00:42:21,847 --> 00:42:24,736
or if he lives in the state of California.

992
00:42:24,736 --> 00:42:29,122
Yes. And what is the

993
00:42:29,122 --> 00:42:32,524
monthly rent for that property?

994
00:42:32,524 --> 00:42:34,020
Per unit?

995
00:42:34,020 --> 00:42:34,680
Yes.

996
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,969
I think it's $1,250. Is

997
00:42:37,969 --> 00:42:39,360
that for the whole house?

998
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,387
No, that's just for an apartment.

999
00:42:41,387 --> 00:42:41,960
Sorry?

1000
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,859
Just for an apartment.

1001
00:42:43,859 --> 00:42:47,959
Thank you. And what responsibilities does

1002
00:42:47,959 --> 00:42:52,292
Pathways have to ensure that these

1003
00:42:52,292 --> 00:42:56,540
residents behave, I suppose?

1004
00:42:56,540 --> 00:42:59,624
Clear. Obviously, we do not enforce

1005
00:42:59,624 --> 00:43:01,719
anyone's conditions under the

1006
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,776
Department of Corrections. That's

1007
00:43:04,776 --> 00:43:06,656
from the Department of Corrections, and

1008
00:43:06,656 --> 00:43:08,698
we maintain close communication

1009
00:43:08,698 --> 00:43:12,410
with them about it. They are given an

1010
00:43:12,410 --> 00:43:14,781
agreement, which was recently changed to

1011
00:43:14,781 --> 00:43:16,797
give us a more effective way to

1012
00:43:16,797 --> 00:43:19,109
remove someone from the house

1013
00:43:19,109 --> 00:43:23,843
more quickly. Um. So we hope that's

1014
00:43:23,843 --> 00:43:25,689
something that can help. We

1015
00:43:25,689 --> 00:43:28,866
implemented it in July. And now, if we are

1016
00:43:28,866 --> 00:43:30,564
informed of a

1017
00:43:30,564 --> 00:43:32,504
serious problem, we can remove them immediately,

1018
00:43:32,504 --> 00:43:34,940
which was not the case previously.

1019
00:43:34,940 --> 00:43:37,039
Um, therefore, they are following an

1020
00:43:37,039 --> 00:43:39,386
agreement based on participation and

1021
00:43:39,386 --> 00:43:41,609
fulfilling their obligations

1022
00:43:41,609 --> 00:43:43,709
under that agreement, so they

1023
00:43:43,709 --> 00:43:46,056
cannot violate it, um, or they will be asked

1024
00:43:46,056 --> 00:43:49,640
to leave. Um, they are also asked

1025
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,247
to participate in, um,

1026
00:43:52,247 --> 00:43:54,630
constructive activities, such as looking for another

1027
00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:57,862
home, looking for income, things like that.

1028
00:43:57,862 --> 00:43:59,898
Um, there's no supervision on site. We do not

1029
00:43:59,898 --> 00:44:02,421
provide them with treatment. It is not

1030
00:44:02,421 --> 00:44:04,964
a requirement to be a previous user of

1031
00:44:04,964 --> 00:44:07,039
substances to enter that

1032
00:44:07,039 --> 00:44:11,923
property, nor to be sober. Um, so

1033
00:44:11,923 --> 00:44:14,659
.

1034
00:44:14,659 --> 00:44:16,565
So there's really no oversight

1035
00:44:16,565 --> 00:44:17,691
there.

1036
00:44:17,691 --> 00:44:19,491
So if I could. I just want to

1037
00:44:19,491 --> 00:44:21,345
make sure that's clear. The

1038
00:44:21,345 --> 00:44:23,542
agreement is between Pathways and the

1039
00:44:23,542 --> 00:44:25,290
resident of the, uh.

1040
00:44:25,290 --> 00:44:26,070
The occupant, yes.

1041
00:44:26,070 --> 00:44:28,043
the occupant of the property and that is

1042
00:44:28,043 --> 00:44:30,129
signed at the beginning of the residence.

1043
00:44:30,129 --> 00:44:30,827
Correct.

1044
00:44:30,827 --> 00:44:31,641
OK.

1045
00:44:31,641 --> 00:44:33,276
And their conditions are incorporated

1046
00:44:33,276 --> 00:44:34,507
into that. So if they break their

1047
00:44:34,507 --> 00:44:35,914
conditions, they are also breaking

1048
00:44:35,914 --> 00:44:37,257
our agreement. Therefore, we

1049
00:44:37,257 --> 00:44:38,488
can also ask them to leave if they have

1050
00:44:38,488 --> 00:44:39,900
breached their conditions in the case.

1051
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:41,402
And I think I know the answer to this

1052
00:44:41,402 --> 00:44:43,433
question. Most of us

1053
00:44:43,433 --> 00:44:45,453
know this, but there is no staff on

1054
00:44:45,453 --> 00:44:47,585
site, um, during the day or night

1055
00:44:47,585 --> 00:44:49,773
monitoring the comings and goings of

1056
00:44:49,773 --> 00:44:52,460
the, uh, occupants. Is that correct?

1057
00:44:52,460 --> 00:44:54,447
24/7, no, there is no supervision on

1058
00:44:54,447 --> 00:44:54,980
site.

1059
00:44:54,980 --> 00:44:57,947
Yes. Very good. Thank you. So I'm going to

1060
00:44:57,947 --> 00:44:58,966
continue. Thank you.

1061
00:44:58,966 --> 00:44:59,876
so much. You are

1062
00:44:59,876 --> 00:45:00,719
welcome.

1063
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:01,687
Councillor Clifford.

1064
00:45:01,687 --> 00:45:03,008
Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. President

1065
00:45:03,008 --> 00:45:04,160
, could you just, uh, ask

1066
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:05,445
the commissioner a question, please? He

1067
00:45:05,445 --> 00:45:06,842
certainly can do it. I think

1068
00:45:06,842 --> 00:45:07,633
you, you...should we

1069
00:45:07,633 --> 00:45:08,992
start with each other or not?

1070
00:45:08,992 --> 00:45:09,889
Okay, go ahead.

1071
00:45:09,889 --> 00:45:10,280
OK.

1072
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,443
Yes. Thanks for coming up there.

1073
00:45:12,443 --> 00:45:14,128
Thank you. Commissioner, if you don't mind

1074
00:45:14,128 --> 00:45:15,630
, we have a council member who has

1075
00:45:15,630 --> 00:45:17,522
a question for you. He is Paul

1076
00:45:17,522 --> 00:45:18,160
Clifford.

1077
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,898
Thank you for coming, Commissioner. Um,

1078
00:45:19,898 --> 00:45:21,864
simply because of what we're

1079
00:45:21,864 --> 00:45:23,720
dealing with and what the neighbors have

1080
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:25,904
been dealing with for the past

1081
00:45:25,904 --> 00:45:27,870
4 years, um, can you envision

1082
00:45:27,870 --> 00:45:29,944
this house being shut down and the occupants being

1083
00:45:29,944 --> 00:45:31,000
relocated? I ca

1084
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,690
n't commit to any of that at

1085
00:45:32,690 --> 00:45:35,206
this time. I, I, we, as I

1086
00:45:35,206 --> 00:45:37,002
said, this is something that has occupied us

1087
00:45:37,002 --> 00:45:38,845
since we found out after the

1088
00:45:38,845 --> 00:45:40,358
last meeting of the Board of

1089
00:45:40,358 --> 00:45:42,012
Councilors or not the last one, there

1090
00:45:42,012 --> 00:45:43,666
may have been other

1091
00:45:43,666 --> 00:45:45,556
intermediate meetings, but the meeting in which

1092
00:45:45,556 --> 00:45:49,388
this was raised. We've been thinking about

1093
00:45:49,388 --> 00:45:51,585
it a lot, talking about it a lot, we've

1094
00:45:51,585 --> 00:45:53,233
had personal and

1095
00:45:53,233 --> 00:45:55,321
professional meetings with various stakeholders,

1096
00:45:55,321 --> 00:45:57,518
but I can't commit to any

1097
00:45:57,518 --> 00:45:59,660
specific motion or effort at this

1098
00:45:59,660 --> 00:46:02,867
time. There are many pieces at stake, and

1099
00:46:02,867 --> 00:46:04,906
that includes our position in other

1100
00:46:04,906 --> 00:46:06,893
locations in the city and across the

1101
00:46:06,893 --> 00:46:09,677
state. The ability to house

1102
00:46:09,677 --> 00:46:12,035
people leaving a period of

1103
00:46:12,035 --> 00:46:14,654
incarceration is extremely important

1104
00:46:14,654 --> 00:46:17,078
to our obligation to ensure

1105
00:46:17,078 --> 00:46:19,305
that they successfully reintegrate into the

1106
00:46:19,305 --> 00:46:21,960
community. I

1107
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,018
understand, but are you aware

1108
00:46:24,018 --> 00:46:26,371
of any other places in the state

1109
00:46:26,371 --> 00:46:29,400
with a similar situation?

1110
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:30,836
At this time, no, I am not

1111
00:46:30,836 --> 00:46:33,499
aware of any other place that has.

1112
00:46:33,499 --> 00:46:34,841
I was referring to this because of this

1113
00:46:34,841 --> 00:46:36,386
situation, because of what these people

1114
00:46:36,386 --> 00:46:38,013
have been going through for the past

1115
00:46:38,013 --> 00:46:42,353
4 years. I was hoping that you and your team

1116
00:46:42,353 --> 00:46:46,550
could seriously consider closing it

1117
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:48,900
and relocating.

1118
00:46:48,900 --> 00:46:50,260
We are seriously considering every

1119
00:46:50,260 --> 00:46:51,657
option in front of us

1120
00:46:51,657 --> 00:46:53,019
at this time, sir.

1121
00:46:53,019 --> 00:46:53,780
Thank you.

1122
00:46:53,780 --> 00:46:54,439
Alright

1123
00:46:54,439 --> 00:46:56,119
. I'll give you the floor on that

1124
00:46:56,119 --> 00:46:58,019
.

1125
00:46:58,019 --> 00:46:59,990
Although I appreciate that the commissioner

1126
00:46:59,990 --> 00:47:01,962
says they have been addressing these

1127
00:47:01,962 --> 00:47:03,933
issues since the residents

1128
00:47:03,933 --> 00:47:05,631
brought them to the commission's attention

1129
00:47:05,631 --> 00:47:08,360
. My question is, where has

1130
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:09,585
the oversight been for the

1131
00:47:09,585 --> 00:47:11,859
past 4 years? They can talk a lot

1132
00:47:11,859 --> 00:47:13,551
about wanting to believe in the program and

1133
00:47:13,551 --> 00:47:15,290
helping people integrate into the

1134
00:47:15,290 --> 00:47:17,339
community. I think that's fantastic.

1135
00:47:17,339 --> 00:47:20,774
But without supervision, what good is it?

1136
00:47:20,774 --> 00:47:22,212
If there is no oversight, if there is no

1137
00:47:22,212 --> 00:47:23,921
accountability for anyone

1138
00:47:23,921 --> 00:47:25,675
living there, everything falls on the neighbors

1139
00:47:25,675 --> 00:47:27,204
to deal with the

1140
00:47:27,204 --> 00:47:27,754
negative consequences.

1141
00:47:27,754 --> 00:47:29,081
And the municipal police.

1142
00:47:29,081 --> 00:47:31,124
And if a

1143
00:47:31,124 --> 00:47:33,416
neighborhood is going to have one of these

1144
00:47:33,416 --> 00:47:35,906
houses basically placed in the middle of

1145
00:47:35,906 --> 00:47:38,395
their homes, there should be, there should be

1146
00:47:38,395 --> 00:47:41,603
oversight. There should be an

1147
00:47:41,603 --> 00:47:43,675
equal amount of effort, money,

1148
00:47:43,675 --> 00:47:47,921
and thought invested in what will be done

1149
00:47:47,921 --> 00:47:49,683
for supervision as in

1150
00:47:49,683 --> 00:47:51,490
how we are going to help these people

1151
00:47:51,490 --> 00:47:53,461
make the transition. And it seems somewhat

1152
00:47:53,461 --> 00:47:55,419
unbalanced. It seems that the emphasis

1153
00:47:55,419 --> 00:47:57,131
is more on helping these people

1154
00:47:57,131 --> 00:47:58,842
who are in transition, but if there is no

1155
00:47:58,842 --> 00:48:00,283
accountability for them,

1156
00:48:00,283 --> 00:48:01,994
then you are not really

1157
00:48:01,994 --> 00:48:02,500
helping them either.

1158
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:06,520
Correct.

1159
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:07,999
Thank you so much.

1160
00:48:07,999 --> 00:48:09,638
But I think some

1161
00:48:09,638 --> 00:48:11,773
things have been said. I suppose one question I

1162
00:48:11,773 --> 00:48:13,486
have, perhaps for the commissioner, is

1163
00:48:13,486 --> 00:48:15,630
how are they being housed there? How are they being

1164
00:48:15,630 --> 00:48:18,588
placed there? Is there a court order

1165
00:48:18,588 --> 00:48:20,963
that says they're going to 43 Evergreen

1166
00:48:20,963 --> 00:48:24,153
Avenue? What are they like? How are they being housed

1167
00:48:24,153 --> 00:48:29,261
on this property?

1168
00:48:29,261 --> 00:48:30,858
I, I guess, my name is Gary

1169
00:48:30,858 --> 00:48:32,759
Marvel. I am the director of

1170
00:48:32,759 --> 00:48:33,329
adult services.

1171
00:48:33,329 --> 00:48:35,360
Yes,

1172
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,572
thanks. Thank you for getting up.

1173
00:48:37,572 --> 00:48:38,351
Thank you.

1174
00:48:38,351 --> 00:48:40,226
Yes, there is a case assignment process

1175
00:48:40,226 --> 00:48:42,159
. Essentially, the case is reviewed

1176
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:44,445
. Uh, one of the things we look at is

1177
00:48:44,445 --> 00:48:46,146
essentially whether we have to release them

1178
00:48:46,146 --> 00:48:48,251
or not. Most people in

1179
00:48:48,251 --> 00:48:49,842
Vermont, um, are essentially

1180
00:48:49,842 --> 00:48:51,621
non-discretionary release because

1181
00:48:51,621 --> 00:48:53,026
most people under

1182
00:48:53,026 --> 00:48:54,852
supervision in the community are on

1183
00:48:54,852 --> 00:48:56,490
probation, which may

1184
00:48:56,490 --> 00:48:57,801
mean they were never

1185
00:48:57,801 --> 00:48:59,875
incarcerated in the first place. Um, we

1186
00:48:59,875 --> 00:49:01,610
've expanded to house people

1187
00:49:01,610 --> 00:49:03,534
on parole. We found

1188
00:49:03,534 --> 00:49:04,845
that they default at a higher rate

1189
00:49:04,845 --> 00:49:06,627
when they are homeless. Um, and, uh,

1190
00:49:06,627 --> 00:49:08,196
especially when we consider

1191
00:49:08,196 --> 00:49:09,995
some of the more serious cases like,

1192
00:49:09,995 --> 00:49:11,610
uh, sex offenders and

1193
00:49:11,610 --> 00:49:13,317
domestic violence, we definitely want them to be

1194
00:49:13,317 --> 00:49:14,972
housed. We want to know

1195
00:49:14,972 --> 00:49:15,953
where they are at night.

1196
00:49:15,953 --> 00:49:17,167
Is this a condition of their

1197
00:49:17,167 --> 00:49:17,880
release?

1198
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,024
Yes, that, that depends on the court. It

1199
00:49:20,024 --> 00:49:21,189
depends on the

1200
00:49:21,189 --> 00:49:22,464
parole board and it depends on the

1201
00:49:22,464 --> 00:49:24,139
risk level of your early release.

1202
00:49:24,139 --> 00:49:26,401
Good, because that affects how

1203
00:49:26,401 --> 00:49:28,794
our ordinance is applied. So, that was

1204
00:49:28,794 --> 00:49:30,964
a question. Um, my other, my other

1205
00:49:30,964 --> 00:49:33,524
question is: is anyone paying

1206
00:49:33,524 --> 00:49:35,471
Pathways? I assume it's the

1207
00:49:35,471 --> 00:49:37,115
Vermont State Department of Correction that's supposed to

1208
00:49:37,115 --> 00:49:38,718
oversee this, which isn't happening

1209
00:49:38,718 --> 00:49:42,239
. And the concern is that there's also

1210
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,595
a park. Um, there was talk of

1211
00:49:44,595 --> 00:49:46,701
Gergette Park, uh, Pine Hill Park is

1212
00:49:46,701 --> 00:49:49,344
at the end of that street. Lots of traffic,

1213
00:49:49,344 --> 00:49:53,217
lots of children. And then, going down

1214
00:49:53,217 --> 00:49:55,431
the hill a little, there are two kindergarten

1215
00:49:55,431 --> 00:49:59,200
to second grade schools there. Um, from what

1216
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,229
we've heard, there are a variety of

1217
00:50:01,229 --> 00:50:04,060
criminals living in the house. Um,

1218
00:50:04,060 --> 00:50:07,113
and it's totally inappropriate. Completely

1219
00:50:07,113 --> 00:50:09,435
inappropriate. People have the right to

1220
00:50:09,435 --> 00:50:11,411
go home and live in their little piece

1221
00:50:11,411 --> 00:50:14,184
of heaven without these things happening. And it

1222
00:50:14,184 --> 00:50:16,496
's inappropriate. It's inappropriate for

1223
00:50:16,496 --> 00:50:18,244
Pathways to be taking money from the

1224
00:50:18,244 --> 00:50:19,941
state, from the state of Vermont, and

1225
00:50:19,941 --> 00:50:22,248
not actually doing anything. I passed

1226
00:50:22,248 --> 00:50:24,280
by there, oh, I don't know, a couple of

1227
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,133
weeks ago. I suppose that perhaps after

1228
00:50:26,133 --> 00:50:27,784
the first time Katrina was

1229
00:50:27,784 --> 00:50:29,524
here, the gates were wide open

1230
00:50:29,524 --> 00:50:31,264
, there wasn't a curtain in

1231
00:50:31,264 --> 00:50:32,960
sight, the grass was

1232
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,655
everywhere, trash everywhere, some

1233
00:50:34,655 --> 00:50:36,395
kind of beat-up car in the driveway

1234
00:50:36,395 --> 00:50:39,399
. We're not going to betray each other

1235
00:50:39,399 --> 00:50:41,069
. If Kurt and I are in trouble, I'm not

1236
00:50:41,069 --> 00:50:42,678
going to rat him out, and he's not going to rat me out

1237
00:50:42,678 --> 00:50:45,783
. That's why Pathways needs to

1238
00:50:45,783 --> 00:50:47,694
be there, and that needs to change

1239
00:50:47,694 --> 00:50:50,128
immediately. If they're not going to close this house

1240
00:50:50,128 --> 00:50:51,827
, then they need to make sure there's

1241
00:50:51,827 --> 00:50:53,398
oversight and accountability,

1242
00:50:53,398 --> 00:50:55,020
because this isn't right.

1243
00:50:55,020 --> 00:50:55,640
Mjm.

1244
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:56,300
We agree.

1245
00:50:56,300 --> 00:50:58,073
The city of Rutland, in my opinion,

1246
00:50:58,073 --> 00:51:00,380
has had more than its fair share.

1247
00:51:00,380 --> 00:51:01,360
We agree that there needs to be

1248
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:02,368
oversight and accountability

1249
00:51:02,368 --> 00:51:03,459
for that site now.

1250
00:51:03,459 --> 00:51:04,580
Thank you.

1251
00:51:04,580 --> 00:51:07,359
Okay, thank you very much. OK.

1252
00:51:07,359 --> 00:51:08,019
So, uh,

1253
00:51:08,019 --> 00:51:09,039
sir, Mr. President,

1254
00:51:09,039 --> 00:51:09,501
could you...?

1255
00:51:09,501 --> 00:51:12,119
Yes, it certainly can. Yes.

1256
00:51:12,119 --> 00:51:14,556
Uh, for the Pathways representative,

1257
00:51:14,556 --> 00:51:16,930
going back to something you said earlier about

1258
00:51:16,930 --> 00:51:19,367
if an occupant violates the terms

1259
00:51:19,367 --> 00:51:21,367
of the agreement that puts them on this

1260
00:51:21,367 --> 00:51:23,804
property, you said that at that point

1261
00:51:23,804 --> 00:51:27,020
we can ask them to leave. What

1262
00:51:27,020 --> 00:51:28,199
happens if they say no?

1263
00:51:28,199 --> 00:51:29,779
They have to leave, and they have to leave.

1264
00:51:29,779 --> 00:51:31,440
So, it's not a request, it's a "you're

1265
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:32,947
done."

1266
00:51:32,947 --> 00:51:34,650
Um, yes, excuse me. He was speaking

1267
00:51:34,650 --> 00:51:35,611
diplomatically.

1268
00:51:35,611 --> 00:51:37,866
Good. No, no, that's why I asked. They are only

1269
00:51:37,980 --> 00:51:39,685
on the property and have no

1270
00:51:39,685 --> 00:51:41,959
tenancy rights to remain there.

1271
00:51:41,959 --> 00:51:44,111
Good. That's why I asked. I just wanted to

1272
00:51:44,111 --> 00:51:47,539
understand. Good. OK. Very good.

1273
00:51:47,539 --> 00:51:49,626
So, we've listened to almost everyone I

1274
00:51:49,626 --> 00:51:51,908
think wants to talk. I'm going to

1275
00:51:51,908 --> 00:51:53,972
be polite and ask the commissioner

1276
00:51:53,972 --> 00:51:55,830
if he has anything else he'd like to say

1277
00:51:55,830 --> 00:51:59,101
before we conclude. I'm going to wrap this up as

1278
00:51:59,101 --> 00:52:02,360
best I can here. So, I

1279
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,354
just want to clarify that there have been 10

1280
00:52:04,354 --> 00:52:06,402
objections from that site throughout

1281
00:52:06,402 --> 00:52:09,246
its existence. Uh, when there are

1282
00:52:09,246 --> 00:52:12,426
violations, there are repercussions. Are they

1283
00:52:12,426 --> 00:52:14,429
sufficient? Do we need to improve

1284
00:52:14,429 --> 00:52:17,400
supervision? Uh, we've been

1285
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,380
paying extra attention, having

1286
00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:21,262
additional visits from members of the

1287
00:52:21,262 --> 00:52:24,699
PNP office in Rutland. But the

1288
00:52:24,699 --> 00:52:26,828
idea that there are no repercussions for

1289
00:52:26,828 --> 00:52:28,842
people who act

1290
00:52:28,842 --> 00:52:30,959
inappropriately is not entirely accurate.

1291
00:52:30,959 --> 00:52:33,194
Nor is it true that they do not

1292
00:52:33,194 --> 00:52:35,556
report each other. A

1293
00:52:35,556 --> 00:52:37,479
significant number of the calls during

1294
00:52:37,479 --> 00:52:39,351
this time period have, in

1295
00:52:39,351 --> 00:52:41,325
fact, been from residents trying,

1296
00:52:41,325 --> 00:52:42,843
so to speak, to betray other

1297
00:52:42,843 --> 00:52:45,865
residents. Um, and that's also a

1298
00:52:45,865 --> 00:52:48,715
component. None of that is an

1299
00:52:48,715 --> 00:52:50,635
excuse. I offer it only as an

1300
00:52:50,635 --> 00:52:52,751
explanation and clarification. We recognize

1301
00:52:52,751 --> 00:52:54,646
that there is a situation here that we

1302
00:52:54,646 --> 00:52:56,646
are not seeing elsewhere and we

1303
00:52:56,646 --> 00:52:58,840
are taking it seriously.

1304
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,335
Fine, thanks. So, I'm just going to say

1305
00:53:01,335 --> 00:53:05,864
a couple of things. I want to make sure

1306
00:53:05,864 --> 00:53:09,563
that, uh, you, uh, leave knowing

1307
00:53:09,563 --> 00:53:12,340
how we feel. I suppose I can't

1308
00:53:12,340 --> 00:53:13,712
speak for everyone on the Board of

1309
00:53:13,712 --> 00:53:15,047
Council. I'll speak for myself,

1310
00:53:15,047 --> 00:53:16,339
but you've already heard it from a couple of

1311
00:53:16,339 --> 00:53:19,326
different people. Um, my

1312
00:53:19,326 --> 00:53:22,183
firm advice would be to close that facility,

1313
00:53:22,183 --> 00:53:24,739
because no matter how many people you

1314
00:53:24,739 --> 00:53:27,671
bring in now to supervise, the damage

1315
00:53:27,671 --> 00:53:31,546
is already done. The damage has been done in that

1316
00:53:31,546 --> 00:53:34,126
neighborhood. There's no going back

1317
00:53:34,126 --> 00:53:36,687
. I think he needs to reevaluate

1318
00:53:36,687 --> 00:53:39,159
how he's doing things.

1319
00:53:39,159 --> 00:53:41,072
Obviously in that facility,

1320
00:53:41,072 --> 00:53:42,986
but also in other facilities in

1321
00:53:42,986 --> 00:53:44,708
Rutland, because we don't want to see

1322
00:53:44,708 --> 00:53:46,744
this happen again elsewhere. In

1323
00:53:46,744 --> 00:53:48,382
larger communities, you were the

1324
00:53:48,382 --> 00:53:50,419
chief in Burlington. I'm sure

1325
00:53:50,419 --> 00:53:52,135
something like that must have come up at some

1326
00:53:52,135 --> 00:53:54,726
point up there. There were 45,000

1327
00:53:54,726 --> 00:53:57,263
people up there and a lot of

1328
00:53:57,263 --> 00:53:59,941
good people, but also some bad ones and,

1329
00:53:59,941 --> 00:54:02,760
um, you know, this is just, I think what

1330
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,509
Tom said is exactly right

1331
00:54:05,509 --> 00:54:08,172
. The underlying problem is the

1332
00:54:08,172 --> 00:54:10,562
revolving door and the people who end up back on

1333
00:54:10,562 --> 00:54:12,717
the street. But, um, I

1334
00:54:12,717 --> 00:54:14,859
want to make sure you understand from

1335
00:54:14,859 --> 00:54:17,001
my point of view, and I think from several

1336
00:54:17,001 --> 00:54:18,821
of us on the Board of

1337
00:54:18,821 --> 00:54:20,910
Councillors, is that, um, my assumption

1338
00:54:20,910 --> 00:54:22,891
is that the mayor also wants that

1339
00:54:22,891 --> 00:54:25,670
facility to be closed. So.

1340
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:29,178
Um, okay. Anyone else

1341
00:54:29,178 --> 00:54:30,763
quick? Alex?

1342
00:54:30,763 --> 00:54:32,418
Yes, I'll be very brief. I'll be brief

1343
00:54:32,418 --> 00:54:34,585
because, frankly, I'm furious. Um,

1344
00:54:34,585 --> 00:54:37,035
I'd like to thank the representatives from

1345
00:54:37,035 --> 00:54:40,030
DOC and Pathways for showing up today. Um,

1346
00:54:40,030 --> 00:54:42,544
I'm a little discouraged and disappointed

1347
00:54:42,544 --> 00:54:45,196
by the diplomacy in the speech. Um, it

1348
00:54:45,196 --> 00:54:47,315
sounds like something I could read on their

1349
00:54:47,315 --> 00:54:49,473
website. Um, that's not enough. What he

1350
00:54:49,473 --> 00:54:50,770
's saying isn't enough. The

1351
00:54:50,770 --> 00:54:52,423
fact that you show up here

1352
00:54:52,423 --> 00:54:54,484
is not enough. Hey, what he's

1353
00:54:54,484 --> 00:54:55,775
doing is harming the

1354
00:54:55,775 --> 00:54:56,961
neighbors. He's standing in front of the

1355
00:54:56,961 --> 00:54:58,135
neighbors who have been putting up with this

1356
00:54:58,135 --> 00:54:59,310
for the last 4 years and saying,

1357
00:54:59,310 --> 00:55:00,494
"Hey, it's really not that bad." That

1358
00:55:00,494 --> 00:55:03,667
offends me. I'm, I'm simply

1359
00:55:03,667 --> 00:55:05,150
furious. I disagree with that. And

1360
00:55:05,150 --> 00:55:06,993
as someone who went through a

1361
00:55:06,993 --> 00:55:08,652
rehabilitation center and had

1362
00:55:08,652 --> 00:55:10,311
proper supervision and was able to change his life, he

1363
00:55:10,311 --> 00:55:12,155
is doing absolute harm to those

1364
00:55:12,155 --> 00:55:13,647
people in that house. There is

1365
00:55:13,647 --> 00:55:15,334
absolutely no chance,

1366
00:55:15,334 --> 00:55:17,220
when you put someone in that kind of

1367
00:55:17,220 --> 00:55:19,155
condition and environment, of them

1368
00:55:19,155 --> 00:55:21,090
recovering and reintegrating into society

1369
00:55:21,090 --> 00:55:23,481
. This is simply ridiculous.

1370
00:55:23,481 --> 00:55:29,120
Thanks, Alex.

1371
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:30,758
Okay, the motion is to adjourn the session

1372
00:55:30,758 --> 00:55:31,240
.

1373
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:32,201
That's how it will be done.

1374
00:55:32,201 --> 00:55:33,998
The session is adjourned.