[0:02] I would like to begin this meeting
[0:04] . Good evening everyone and thank you for
[0:13] coming. Thank you very much. As
[0:18] everyone knows, the main topic
[0:20] tonight is the situation we are
[0:23] seeing on Evergreen Avenue with a
[0:26] program run by the Department of
[0:29] Correction. There are a couple of
[0:33] administrative matters I need to address under
[0:36] the open meetings law before we
[0:39] move on to the main topic. So I'm going to
[0:42] proceed with that right now. Are there
[0:45] any additions or deletions to the
[0:47] agenda that anyone would like to make? Since there were
[0:50] none. Audience comments
[0:52] on agenda items.
[0:54] Normally this would be the opportunity
[0:58] for the audience to speak, but I'm going to
[1:01] move that point a little further on.
[1:06] I want to hear from the mayor and the
[1:09] police chief first, and then I will open the
[1:12] floor to any member of the public,
[1:15] one by one, so that if they wish to speak,
[1:17] they can try to get straight to the point, if I
[1:20] may politely ask. And after
[1:24] that, we'll ask the
[1:25] Department of Correction if they have
[1:27] anything to say, and then we'll open the
[1:29] debate in general. So, without further
[1:31] ado, I'm going to give you the floor.
[1:33] I want to ask Mayor Donahue to
[1:36] start tonight. I'll just lay
[1:39] the groundwork quickly. Both the
[1:42] mayor and I have received
[1:44] phone calls and communications from
[1:46] residents. Katrina, you had
[1:49] told me several times about the
[1:50] situation up there. She and I have
[1:54] known each other for a long time and,
[1:56] well, some of the things she described to me were worrying, to say the
[1:59] least
[2:01] . So we've come
[2:05] from the beginning of that conversation
[2:08] to this point today. I have spoken with the
[2:11] Commissioner of Corrections. He and I
[2:14] had a meeting via Teams.
[2:16] We have talked. I know he's also
[2:18] spoken to the police chief and
[2:20] the mayor, and well, there have been
[2:22] behind-the-scenes conversations. But I
[2:26] think it's important that we all
[2:27] listen, especially the audience
[2:29] tonight, about the situation they
[2:31] face up there and what we can
[2:33] do, if anything, going
[2:35] forward; We would certainly like to
[2:37] see some action. So, Mr. Mayor,
[2:40] the floor is yours.
[2:41] Yes, well, President O'Leary,
[2:43] thank you very much. First of all, I want to
[2:44] thank you for calling this meeting.
[2:46] As you know, a few weeks ago
[2:48] we listened to the residents and it was
[2:50] quite a passionate discussion that
[2:52] arose during the
[2:54] public sector communications at a
[2:56] regular meeting of the
[2:59] City Council and. Many of us were
[3:01] quite surprised by the intensity
[3:04] of the situation on Evergreen Avenue
[3:06] that the neighbors had reached at
[3:08] that point, 4 years after this
[3:10] program was installed there. So
[3:14] one of the things that concerned us,
[3:16] of course, is the volume of
[3:18] responses to Evergreen Avenue by
[3:20] the
[3:22] Raleigh City Police Department during that
[3:24] 4-year period, and a
[3:25] significant number since January alone, and a
[3:27] significant number even in July of
[3:29] this year. And it's one of those things that I
[3:33] firmly believe the neighbors have
[3:36] tolerated. They have tolerated it for 4
[3:38] years and that is what has brought us
[3:40] to this point. So I want to
[3:42] thank the Board of Councillors
[3:43] for listening to the concerns of the
[3:45] residents. Because these are the kinds of
[3:47] things that I think, you know, there might be
[3:49] a model here. There are a dozen
[3:51] of these types of agreements throughout the
[3:54] city. Perhaps having a third of that
[3:57] in a single location is not the
[3:58] right model. And perhaps that needs to be addressed,
[4:01] and in a different location. So
[4:04] , really, that's
[4:05] probably where we need to get to
[4:06] resolve this, because
[4:08] the neighbors' tolerance has simply run out. That said
[4:11] , I also want to thank
[4:12] our state legislators who
[4:14] are in the room, from the House and the
[4:16] Senate, as well as our
[4:17] police chief and the
[4:19] media who are here, because
[4:20] this is a very important issue for the
[4:22] region, the city as a whole, and our
[4:24] community. Having said that, I also want to
[4:27] thank the
[4:29] Corrections Department, which is present
[4:31] tonight, which we appreciate. Honestly
[4:33] , thank you for being here. And
[4:36] last but not least, the
[4:39] neighbors who are willing to come and
[4:42] talk about what they have been through. And I just
[4:46] want to point out that there are several neighbors
[4:47] who didn't feel comfortable coming
[4:49] because they were worried about reprisals,
[4:51] and that worries me. So I am
[4:53] grateful to the neighbors who are
[4:55] willing to speak out. Four years is a
[4:57] long time, and I think they have been more
[4:59] than tolerant, and I think it's time to
[5:00] change this model. Thank you.
[5:03] Good. Very good, excellent.
[5:05] Thank you so much. So, this is an
[5:07] opportunity for the
[5:10] police chief to come up and give us a brief, uh,
[5:15] well, from his point of view, uh, what's been going on
[5:17] recently and
[5:20] in the last, uh, couple of years, uh,
[5:22] not just with Evergreen Avenue, but, uh,
[5:25] with this whole program as a whole.
[5:28] So, Chief Prouty, uh, you have the
[5:30] floor.
[5:31] Well, I think it would be disingenuous of
[5:32] me to talk about the whole program.
[5:35] Okay, that's fine. I'm sure there are
[5:36] probably many places where it's
[5:38] ...
[5:39] Well, here in Rutland.
[5:40] So, I can, do it, I can do that. And I know there have
[5:43] been some recent changes to
[5:44] the program. First, thank you for
[5:45] inviting me. Um, I'll be brief because I believe
[5:48] the important part of the
[5:49] conversation should come from the public and
[5:52] the neighbors who are here. Um, 57
[5:55] calls doesn't seem like a lot. There are
[5:57] many, especially, um, when you know you
[5:59] 're not receiving all the
[6:01] calls about what happened in a place
[6:03] . Um, my concern isn't so much
[6:07] about correctional facilities or
[6:10] reintegration programs or, um, what people
[6:13] can or cannot necessarily do, but rather that there are
[6:16] problems in the law that tie
[6:19] people's hands. So,
[6:22] when there is a
[6:24] public expectation that people under
[6:26] supervision, um, if they do something wrong, it
[6:29] can be fixed. That's not always
[6:31] true. And it's not the fault of the
[6:33] probation officers, it's not the fault
[6:35] of the Department of Correction as a
[6:36] whole, nor the fault of the
[6:38] reintegration programs. It is either legislative
[6:41] or perhaps there are some rules
[6:43] established at the state level that they
[6:46] have to follow. So, they're
[6:49] probably not going to talk about it
[6:51] tonight, and that's fine, but I do think it
[6:53] needs to be investigated. I am
[6:55] committed to working with our
[6:57] partners in the Department of Correction,
[7:00] specifically with Justin Hanson, a
[7:02] great partner to us and my
[7:04] staff. And the commissioner and I
[7:06] will definitely be in
[7:08] communication, so, um, we're
[7:10] involved. We want to see this
[7:12] resolved. We want people to live in
[7:14] peace in their neighborhood and not have to
[7:15] worry or live in fear. It's not
[7:18] right, especially if something is
[7:19] supported by taxpayer money,
[7:21] so that's what I have. Alright
[7:23] .
[7:23] Thank you.
[7:24] TRUE.
[7:24] Okay, thanks, boss. Thank you.
[7:27] And you know, we've heard several times
[7:29] from the boss about, you know, the number of
[7:31] calls and the quality of the calls and
[7:34] what's been going on up there
[7:36] . So, I guess we never
[7:38] heard that enough. It's
[7:40] simply important for our
[7:41] friends in the correctional system and the
[7:43] general public to hear that.
[7:46] As the Chief mentioned, it is important
[7:50] that we listen to the public or the
[7:53] neighbors when and if they wish to speak. This
[7:58] will undoubtedly be their opportunity. All
[8:00] they have to do is raise their hand, come up
[8:03] to the podium, tell us their name, and it
[8:05] will be their turn. So, whoever wants to
[8:07] start first. Very good, Katrina.
[8:12] Thank you for coming. Thank you.
[8:15] This is your chance, so go
[8:17] ahead, please.
[8:18] OK. Thank you for having me. Uh,
[8:21] my name is Katrina. I own
[8:25] a property on Evergreen Avenue. I
[8:27] own, uh, what used to be
[8:29] my father's house, what used to be my
[8:31] house, my childhood home. Oh, and
[8:34] now I'm the landlord. Uh, I grew up
[8:38] there. My father passed away in that house and
[8:40] now I have wonderful tenants
[8:42] who live here. And he, uh, Scott,
[8:46] lives in my father's apartment
[8:48] right next door to 43 Evergreen
[8:50] Avenue. Uh, my family has called
[8:52] this street home for 100 years. It's
[8:55] not something I just walked into
[8:57] or moved into. My great-grandparents,
[8:59] both sets, uh, lived there and
[9:01] raised their children there. My grandparents
[9:03] were neighbors and met on that
[9:05] street, and my uncles and my parents raised
[9:07] their children there. In 2023, I bought a
[9:10] second property on Evergreen Avenue.
[9:12] I decided to buy it because I love this
[9:14] neighborhood and because I wanted to help
[9:16] protect it from the kind of situation we
[9:19] were experiencing, and still are
[9:21] experiencing, at 43 Evergreen
[9:23] Avenue. And that's why I'm here tonight
[9:25] . For the past four
[9:27] years, residents of this street have
[9:29] dealt with constant problems
[9:30] related to this property. And
[9:32] I want to emphasize the part about constants. My
[9:36] tenants and neighbors have called me
[9:38] repeatedly with concerns
[9:40] over the past few years. They have
[9:41] expressed feeling nervous,
[9:43] uncomfortable, and scared, and I have received
[9:45] calls and complaints about the frequent
[9:47] police presence and
[9:49] ongoing disturbances surrounding this property. These are not
[9:51] occasional worries of a
[9:53] single person. These are recurring complaints from
[9:56] people who live there day after day
[9:58] . As a landlord and friend to many of
[10:03] the people on the street, it is extremely
[10:05] difficult for them to tell me that they do not feel
[10:07] safe in the neighborhood and that they are
[10:09] worried about what is happening next door. We have
[10:14] all witnessed
[10:17] criminal activity, street fights, fights
[10:19] with neighbors, drugs going in and out
[10:21] of the house, shouting at night, damage
[10:24] to surrounding property, cars
[10:26] forced open, searched, and people looking
[10:28] inside houses and watching
[10:30] small children. These things have
[10:34] changed the way people live
[10:35] on this street. People used to walk
[10:38] along Evergreen Avenue, but they don't anymore
[10:39] . People are afraid to let
[10:42] their children ride bikes or play
[10:44] outside without worrying about what they
[10:45] might find, and this is not how it
[10:47] should feel in a
[10:49] residential neighborhood. And although the property
[10:52] has only recently begun to receive any
[10:53] maintenance, that doesn't
[10:55] erase the problems that have occurred
[10:56] over the past four years.
[10:59] There are still parts of the property that
[11:00] need attention and damage to
[11:02] surrounding properties that need to be
[11:04] addressed. There is also
[11:06] real concern about the impact
[11:08] this has on the value and
[11:09] desirability of the homes
[11:11] surrounding 43 Evergreen. We have
[11:13] invested our money and our
[11:15] lives in these homes. This street has
[11:17] been my whole life. My whole life and the
[11:19] lives of my whole family, and everyone
[11:21] there is raising their
[11:23] families and bringing their grandchildren.
[11:26] I also want to make it clear that this is not about
[11:28] saying that people who
[11:30] have made mistakes in their lives do not
[11:32] deserve rehabilitation or a
[11:34] chance to rebuild their lives.
[11:37] Because they do deserve it. But that doesn't
[11:39] mean every property is a
[11:41] suitable location or that compassion
[11:43] for those in need of support should come at the
[11:45] expense of families already living
[11:47] in the neighborhood. At some point
[11:50] we must recognize when something
[11:51] simply isn't working.
[11:54] Four years of repeated problems
[11:56] are not an isolated incident. It's a pattern
[11:59] . And the people who live there are the
[12:01] ones who have been living with that
[12:03] pattern. I want the children to have
[12:06] the Evergreen Avenue that I
[12:08] grew up with, that we grew up with, my cousins
[12:10] , my mom. Hey, I want you to ride your
[12:13] bikes. I want the neighbors to
[12:16] feel comfortable walking down their
[12:18] own street. I want families to
[12:19] feel safe in their homes. And
[12:21] I want to protect the neighborhood that my
[12:23] family, my tenants, neighbors, and
[12:25] friends call home. So
[12:27] tonight, I ask you to listen to the
[12:29] residents who have lived with this. We've
[12:31] given him time. We have observed what
[12:34] has happened. We have lived with the
[12:36] consequences. And we're not
[12:38] asking them to prevent anything from happening. We
[12:40] ask you to stop something that is already
[12:42] happening. The people of
[12:47] Evergreen Avenue deserve a
[12:49] safe place to live, grow up, raise their
[12:52] children, and a safe place where
[12:54] people can feel at home.
[12:57] Thank you.
[12:58] Very good, Katrina. Thank you so much.
[13:04] Thank you. So, would anyone else in the
[13:07] neighborhood like to stand up and talk
[13:09] ? They certainly don't have to,
[13:10] but they are more than welcome if they
[13:12] wish to do so. It is entirely voluntary. And
[13:19] we see that we have someone interested.
[13:21] Thank you. Good evening, sir. And
[13:24] thank you. And if you could
[13:25] kindly provide your name for the record,
[13:27] then we will give you the floor.
[13:30] My name is Jared Blake, and I live next door
[13:32] to the property in question.
[13:35] OK.
[13:36] Um...this has been an ongoing problem
[13:44] since the opening of this
[13:50] transitional house. They
[13:52] might not call it a
[13:53] transitional home. They may call it something else
[13:57] , but the reality is that it is what it
[13:59] is. It's a transitional house and,
[14:02] um, it doesn't, contrary to what
[14:06] the press releases from your department say, make
[14:10] Rutland any safer. On the
[14:16] contrary, it makes our neighborhood
[14:18] less safe and the city
[14:20] less safe. For example, an article
[14:26] in the Rutland Herald from October 17,
[14:30] 2022, begins like this: "A man
[14:34] sentenced to 15 to 35 years in prison
[14:36] after beating another man to
[14:38] death with a baseball bat is
[14:40] back in jail on a
[14:42] domestic assault charge." That happened...that
[14:47] resulted from a fight with a woman
[14:52] and her daughter who ended up on
[14:59] my porch asking us to call
[15:02] the police. There's a...You
[15:06] put the guy who beat someone
[15:08] to death on our street. And it
[15:11] wasn't until he threatened...that he
[15:12] threatened to kill someone else or
[15:14] physically harm someone else,
[15:16] that the matter was addressed. And that was
[15:20] 4 years ago. It has been an
[15:23] ongoing problem ever since. And it all
[15:27] stems, in a way, from the crime
[15:29] for which they were convicted, the
[15:31] pattern of, you know, if it was
[15:33] drug-related, there was
[15:35] drug activity there. If it was
[15:39] related to robbery, there was someone
[15:42] looking through my window. Um...And
[15:49] I have two small children, two
[15:52] years old and one year old. I can't, I can't
[15:55] let them play in our own
[15:57] backyard for fear of their safety. Um,
[16:02] this is something I understand. I mean
[16:07] , people when they complete their sentence,
[16:10] whatever, and they're released on
[16:13] parole or probation because they
[16:16] behaved well in prison, because they didn't
[16:18] kill anyone with a baseball bat in there
[16:21] . Um, now they're letting them
[16:25] out. I understand there is a protocol and
[16:28] a mechanism and a need for...
[16:30] But...our city has contemplated in
[16:37] our zoning regulations
[16:41] that...um...that transitional homes
[16:47] are limited to a certain area and
[16:50] are approved by a conditional use permit
[16:53] . And to obtain
[16:57] conditional use permission, you have to
[16:59] be in a certain area. And this
[17:03] doesn't fall into that category. And certainly no
[17:08] permission was requested from
[17:10] Pathways, the owner, you, um,
[17:13] at all. So, I think there is
[17:18] simply a lack of respect for
[17:20] the city's preferences regarding the
[17:23] location of these facilities that
[17:25] has been completely
[17:29] ignored by the DOC. Um, but ultimately
[17:35] I want Evergreen Avenue to be a
[17:38] place where people feel
[17:41] safe. I want my children to be able to go
[17:45] to the backyard and feel safe.
[17:49] I want us to know
[17:51] who is coming in,
[17:53] who is going out, or who is going to cross the
[17:55] line without having to look over our shoulders. It's great what they've been
[17:59] trying to do over the last 2
[18:01] weeks to cut the grass and
[18:03] keep things in order. But there has
[18:06] been a great deal of neglect of this
[18:08] property by Pathways,
[18:11] the DOC, and the owner, with
[18:14] everyone passing the buck
[18:17] and ultimately
[18:20] terrorizing our neighborhood. And
[18:26] well, I mean, we just want a
[18:28] safe environment for our family to
[18:31] grow up in. And that won't happen while I
[18:35] 'm there. They may limit who
[18:39] is there right now, but that doesn't
[18:42] solve the problem. It is only resolved
[18:45] when the entire house is closed and
[18:48] the inhabitants are moved to a
[18:50] different location. Preferably,
[18:54] they would respect the
[18:56] city's zoning and apply for a
[18:58] conditional use permit in a designated location
[19:01] , and follow the
[19:03] proper process in that way. In this way,
[19:05] there is an opportunity for
[19:08] neighboring property owners to express their
[19:10] concerns to the DRB at that time.
[19:14] That didn't happen here. But in the end
[19:21] we need a safe street and this
[19:24] isn't happening because, ultimately
[19:26] , you don't know what's
[19:30] coming next. Who is
[19:33] eligible for a temporary permit
[19:35] afterward? You know. Um, so
[19:39] we're really playing dice
[19:42] with every new resident they put
[19:44] there and we'd really prefer they
[19:47] close it down, both for the safety of
[19:50] our street and the
[19:52] wider community. But in the end, I'm
[20:00] sorry. I say "in the end" a lot, but in the
[20:03] end, this is a horrible situation.
[20:07] The DOC's arguments that
[20:09] this makes Rutland a safer area
[20:12] because of these facts are not the
[20:15] reality. It's quite the opposite. And the
[20:20] arguments are false. If they want to
[20:24] experience that, I encourage them to open
[20:27] a rehabilitation center next to
[20:30] their house. Um, and see what they think. It's
[20:33] horrible. It's been a nightmare every
[20:36] night for the past 4 years. And it doesn't matter
[20:40] if it's Y, as the boss said, they had
[20:45] who knows how many calls this
[20:47] past year. How many times did we
[20:50] simply not feel like
[20:51] calling again? Too many. And this has to
[20:57] stop. And as a city,
[21:03] if they allow this to continue. What they
[21:09] are causing is that every
[21:12] family district, every
[21:14] single-family residential district in the city, is at the
[21:16] mercy of anyone. How will
[21:21] that affect, you know, the relative, you know,
[21:26] perception of the city? And how does
[21:30] that influence, um, you know, what
[21:38] one can expect from their neighborhood? If
[21:42] you have a single-family district,
[21:43] you should expect certain things. And
[21:46] we're not getting that, and the whole
[21:48] city is exposed to that
[21:49] everywhere else, not just in
[21:51] Evergreen. Thank you.
[21:53] Okay, thank you very much. Okay, is there
[22:01] anyone else from the neighborhood or the
[22:03] audience who would like to talk about
[22:06] this, perhaps about a part we
[22:08] haven't heard? Oh, okay. Oh I'm
[22:11] sorry. Right here. Well,
[22:21] they're applauding. That's a good
[22:23] sign.
[22:28] Angela DeAngelo, 79 Evergreen.
[22:30] Thank you.
[22:31] That used to be our house. We had
[22:32] that house for, I don't know how many years, 30
[22:34] years or more. It was a big house, and
[22:37] yes.
[22:37] When we sold it, the guy said, "
[22:38] What are your tenants like?" We said, "
[22:40] They're great." He said, "Fine, I'll
[22:41] keep them." Before we even started
[22:43] signing on the dotted line,
[22:44] they received an eviction notice. So it was
[22:45] never what it was supposed to
[22:47] be. Approximately one year
[22:49] after selling it, I spoke with Sharon
[22:51] Davis several times because something was going on
[22:52] there. We thought it was some kind of
[22:54] rehabilitation house. Legally,
[22:56] nothing indicated that it was. And does it make
[23:01] any sense for someone to take
[23:03] this rehabilitation house and the
[23:07] important thing is their history, their
[23:09] criminal history, it's a
[23:11] criminal history? So why put
[23:14] that in a quiet residential neighborhood
[23:16] with people trying to
[23:17] raise their families? I mean, I grew up
[23:19] here, you know, on this street. We've
[23:21] been on that street for about 40, more
[23:23] than 40 years, probably 50. It's a
[23:26] great street, it's a great street. It's a
[23:27] great neighborhood, but it doesn't make sense
[23:29] to me. And this guy just
[23:31] said that calls to the police
[23:33] there over the last year, just the
[23:35] last year, are ridiculously high.
[23:38] I live at the other end of the dead-
[23:41] end street and every time you pass by, there's sometimes
[23:43] something going on almost every
[23:45] day, as my neighbor can attest.
[23:48] But now, today, yesterday,
[23:51] something was happening. There were many cars
[23:53] there, and they looked like unmarked cars. I can't say
[23:55] for sure, but something was
[23:57] happening just yesterday. So, give us
[24:00] a break. Let's do the right thing for the
[24:02] city and for the people who live in this
[24:03] neighborhood, because they are
[24:05] really good people.
[24:07] OK. Well, thank you very much.
[24:09] Thank you. Alright. Is there anyone else from the
[24:16] neighborhood or the general public
[24:19] who would like to talk about this?
[24:21] OK. Very good. Thank you. Thank you for
[24:26] raising your hand. It's good to see.
[24:28] Thank you. Kindly, if you could just
[24:30] for the registration, your name and
[24:32] address and your name, and then you can
[24:34] continue.
[24:35] Uh, my name is Scott Robertson. I live
[24:37] at 41 Evergreen.
[24:39] OK. The apartment is yours.
[24:42] I moved there in January 2020. Um, I'm getting to
[24:49] know Katrina there. And looking at
[24:52] the house and the neighborhood, it was a
[24:54] very quiet place. I was very happy once I
[24:57] moved there. And so, the
[25:01] people who resided in that building
[25:03] at that time were long-
[25:06] term residents. Very calm, peaceful, and
[25:09] friendly people. Um, and then the house was sold. They
[25:14] were all evicted. Um, and then
[25:18] this started. I
[25:26] 'm often not around during the day. I usually
[25:28] work in the northern part of the state. I
[25:31] leave between 5:00 and 6:00 in the
[25:33] morning and arrive home between 5:00 and
[25:35] 6:00 at night. But, um, the
[25:40] nighttime activity is what bothers me the most
[25:43] . I don't see the patrol cars
[25:48] during the day, or, um, I myself have to
[25:52] , I feel like I have to keep my
[25:55] blinds closed 24 hours a
[25:58] day because I see them walking up and
[26:01] down my driveway, the residents of
[26:05] 43rd. They've broken into my cars twice.
[26:11] Um, and I received a tip from another neighbor
[26:13] who happened to wake up in the middle of the
[26:16] night and see people snooping
[26:17] around my cars in the driveway
[26:20] for the third time. Um, it's simply an
[26:26] unsustainable situation and I feel we were
[26:29] never given the opportunity to
[26:31] express our opinion before
[26:34] this change occurred. Um, we were never
[26:38] asked if we thought it was a
[26:40] good idea. Never, we never had
[26:42] any opportunity to give our
[26:45] opinion. Um, so I'd like to see
[26:49] this change. It is, it is unsustainable.
[26:53] Katrina indicated that my grandchildren live in
[26:56] Florida. They're coming for a couple of weeks
[26:59] during the summer. I can't let them stay
[27:02] with me. Because I'm not going to put them,
[27:08] or myself, in that situation. It's simply
[27:11] not safe. Um, as
[27:14] our other neighbor indicated,
[27:17] the house has been cleaned in recent weeks. The
[27:20] trash and debris have been
[27:22] removed from the porch facing my
[27:24] house. Um, the grass has been cut.
[27:30] Maybe it was 6 weeks ago that it was cut for the
[27:32] first time all summer. The grass
[27:34] was this high. Um, there are still
[27:37] bits of grass all over the sidewalk. It
[27:39] still looks like a disaster. Um. The
[27:45] lack of maintenance is terrible. Um,
[27:50] it's just that it's ruining the
[27:52] neighborhood and making our lives not the way they
[27:58] should be. So that's all I have to
[28:01] say. I don't have any
[28:03] notes prepared or anything like that.
[28:04] That's ok. You did well. You
[28:06] did very well. Okay, anyone else?
[28:15] I have to say that I can't.
[28:16] Okay, you can sit down. Well, we
[28:20] know her better than that.
[28:24] Okay, my name is Karen and um, I bought
[28:26] 3941 Evergreen Avenue long before
[28:29] we had Katrina. And it was a
[28:33] lovely neighborhood, and I grew up on
[28:35] M and M Avenue where my mom, who is
[28:37] very old, lives there. And um, I
[28:40] worry about her constantly. Um,
[28:44] with all this mess that's going on
[28:46] here. I don't understand how this happened, and
[28:49] I think Corrections, or the DOC, or the
[28:51] city, I think we have enough
[28:54] smart people in this city to
[28:57] realize that this is wrong.
[29:00] We need to change this. I mean,
[29:03] we're paying a lot of taxes to
[29:05] live there. Why is
[29:07] this happening? Can anyone tell me?
[29:11] No.
[29:13] Really? It's disgusting. I'm sorry.
[29:16] Okay, Karen.
[29:17] You think in an
[29:18] intelligent way, because I, I know that
[29:20] everyone is intelligent. Suggest something
[29:22] where, um, they can have a
[29:24] safe neighborhood again. And that means
[29:27] , you know, they're paying a
[29:29] lot of taxes. There are many children around
[29:31] . Um, there are some older people around
[29:34] . And these people have made mistakes
[29:37] . They don't belong there. They are not
[29:40] supervised. And this needs to stop.
[29:44] That's all I have to say.
[29:48] Very good. If anyone has anything they would
[29:50] like to add. Tom, I'm going to, I'm going to
[29:53] open the shift for everyone in the
[29:54] legislative delegation. I will make sure
[29:56] the public has their chance
[29:58] first.
[29:58] Understood.
[29:59] Thank you. I
[30:00] 'll be brief.
[30:01] If you like, you certainly can do it.
[30:03] Good.
[30:04] And if I could kindly ask for your
[30:06] name and address for registration.
[30:08] Clear. My name is Chris Sweeney. I am
[30:11] Katrina's husband. Uh, we've
[30:13] remodeled those apartments, 41 and
[30:16] 43. Uh, I just wanted to, I'll be
[30:19] brief. I am a person with
[30:21] very strong opinions. I'm not going to get into that.
[30:23] I think this is a pretty
[30:25] classic case of suicidal empathy. It is not
[30:28] right to put the residents of that
[30:31] street in danger for people
[30:33] seeking a second chance. The
[30:36] citizens of that street must come
[30:38] first. So that's all I have to
[30:40] say.
[30:40] OK. Thank you, Chris.
[30:42] Thank you. Thank you so much. Good. Have
[30:47] all members of the
[30:48] public been heard? I'm going to open the
[30:52] floor to any member of our
[30:54] legislative delegation who wishes to
[30:56] speak or say something about what they've
[30:59] heard, whatever it may be, and Tom, if
[31:01] you want to start, you certainly may
[31:03] . I need to
[31:04] see if they accept people from outside
[31:05] the city or not.
[31:08] Well, we don't normally accept anyone
[31:10] from West Rutland, but since you've
[31:14] been here
[31:15] for 40 years... I know you did it
[31:17] . I know you did it.
[31:19] Good. So, Tom Burditt.
[31:21] Yes.
[31:22] my name is Tom Burditt. I am a
[31:23] state representative for West Rutland.
[31:26] Thank you.
[31:27] And vice chairman of the House Judiciary Committee
[31:29] . And what comes to
[31:32] mind, one of the things is, you know,
[31:34] with this demographic group, I guess you
[31:36] could say, is that there are
[31:38] some negative elements. And it doesn't
[31:41] matter how many, I don't think it matters
[31:43] how many you have in a house, whether you
[31:45] have one, two, four, or ten. If
[31:47] someone is going to cause trouble, they
[31:49] will cause it no matter where they are. And
[31:51] maybe, you know, the number of
[31:54] people at Evergreen should be reduced. I do
[31:56] n't know. But what worries me
[32:00] is whether the laws we have are
[32:02] strong enough to solve this
[32:04] problem. I'm pretty sure that,
[32:08] in some cases, when there's a
[32:11] violation of probation or
[32:13] conditions, someone doesn't
[32:15] necessarily have to go back to
[32:18] jail. Uh, or he could go back to
[32:21] jail. There could be other
[32:24] ramifications, I suppose. But something that
[32:27] comes to mind is that we had a
[32:30] bill in committee
[32:33] last year that will be reintroduced this
[32:36] year and hopefully will gain momentum. And what
[32:39] the bill did or does is
[32:42] , uh, there's an epidemic in the state of
[32:47] failure to appear in court
[32:48] . And what happens to those people who do
[32:53] n't appear in court? They
[32:55] could be sent to jail,
[32:58] but they aren't. They are given another paper
[33:01] that says they have another date to
[33:04] appear in court, and they don't
[33:06] show up, and it happens again and again and again
[33:09] . And what happens with the bill is,
[33:12] if it's not filed, they find him,
[33:16] arrest him, and take him to jail. And
[33:20] maybe I need to go through something like this with
[33:22] this, because I have to believe that
[33:24] some of these people are
[33:27] violating their conditions. And
[33:30] I'm certainly willing to work with the chief,
[33:33] the city attorney, the
[33:36] state attorney, with whom I've already worked, and
[33:38] put something together. And from there, it's very
[33:41] likely that it won't go through my committee; It will
[33:43] go to the corrections committee, a
[33:45] bill like that. But just to get
[33:48] something started, because, again, you take
[33:49] these people and move them, and I'm
[33:51] totally in favor of moving them. I
[33:53] mean, that neighborhood has
[33:55] had enough, and I think they need to
[33:57] go somewhere else. But if we
[34:00] move them to another neighborhood, there will be
[34:03] similar problems. And these people
[34:06] are violating their conditions and
[34:09] perhaps need more than a
[34:12] little talk and a pat on the
[34:15] wrist. Maybe they'll need to spend, you
[34:17] know, a few nights on the
[34:19] corner of Pierpont and State. Thank you. You are
[34:22] welcome. Thanks, Tom. So, before
[34:25] the meeting began, I
[34:27] asked the commissioner if he wanted to
[34:29] speak. He said he wanted to listen to the
[34:32] neighbors. At any time during
[34:35] this meeting, you are more than welcome
[34:37] to stand up and speak. They don't have to
[34:39] , but they certainly can. And I'm going
[34:42] to ask if there's anyone else, whether
[34:45] from the delegation. I want to ask you
[34:48] first why you are our guests.
[34:49] If they want to say something, they don't have to
[34:51] . They are here to listen. You
[34:54] know, bring some ideas, like what you just
[34:56] heard from Tom, back to
[34:59] the Capitol. Those of you who
[35:01] will be returning to the Capitol, perhaps
[35:03] we can accomplish something in January. That's the
[35:06] underlying problem with all of this. It's, you
[35:09] know, what do we do with the people
[35:11] who come in and out through the
[35:13] revolving door? There is no doubt about it. And,
[35:16] uh, I hope some eyes and ears
[35:18] are open to what this means
[35:21] in practice for people. Not
[35:23] just in Rolling City, but all over, um, the
[35:26] entire state. Uh, especially in
[35:28] the larger communities that, you
[35:30] know, are bearing the brunt of it.
[35:32] So I'll ask one more time, I'm going
[35:34] to address the councilor, I want to
[35:35] ask our guests, to
[35:37] make sure everyone has a
[35:38] chance to speak. Would you like to
[35:41] talk, Commissioner? He certainly can
[35:43] do it. He certainly can do it.
[35:46] Uh, my name is John, I'm the
[35:50] Vermont Department of Correction Commissioner, and I wanted to
[35:52] assure everyone here,
[35:53] especially the residents of
[35:55] Evergreen, that we hear you. Hey,
[35:57] we're here. Uh, a large number of
[35:59] us from the Department of Correction
[36:01] are here. I've been in touch.
[36:03] Uh, I had an excellent and long
[36:05] conversation with Chief Prouty
[36:08] two weeks ago. I had a conversation with
[36:10] the mayor. Um, this is something that has been on our minds
[36:13] and we are seriously considering
[36:15] it. Uh, after my meeting
[36:18] with the boss, I went to Evergreen and talked
[36:20] to people who were leaving the park and
[36:22] walking their dogs. Uh, and I got
[36:25] a sense of that neighborhood. It's a
[36:28] beautiful street and a lovely place for
[36:30] families. Right now, we have
[36:33] two people in that location, uh, not
[36:35] four. Um, we're exploring other
[36:38] options. Uh, we're also open
[36:42] to new ideas, but I want to reinforce the
[36:44] idea that an individual who has
[36:46] housing when released is safer
[36:48] for everyone, both for that individual
[36:50] and for the community, than a person
[36:52] who does not have housing. Uh, in Vermont
[36:56] we emphasize the idea of ​​liberation.
[37:00] There are several statutes that use the
[37:02] phrase "less restrictive" in terms of
[37:04] how we detain people, both
[37:07] in the sense of mental health custody
[37:09] and in the sense of
[37:10] jail custody, prison or jail. Um, in
[37:14] Vermont, uh, we have 1,700
[37:18] people incarcerated. That's the
[37:21] lowest number of any state,
[37:23] other than Massachusetts, per capita.
[37:26] And that includes detainees and
[37:28] sentenced individuals. The ratio is
[37:31] approximately 40% and 60%. 40% are
[37:33] people detained awaiting
[37:36] sentencing or trial, and about 60% are
[37:39] sentenced. Uh, the other 4,800
[37:42] people who are under the
[37:44] supervision of the Department of
[37:46] Correction are in the community.
[37:49] That is a legislative decision. This
[37:51] is how our legislature and
[37:53] judicial system work. And for
[37:56] many, that's the right choice:
[37:58] to be in the community instead of being
[38:01] incarcerated. Um, I think, as
[38:04] Chief Prouty said, there may be cases where
[38:06] that might not be the best
[38:08] option for people. I hear your
[38:10] idea of ​​a stricter response
[38:13] regarding bail. Some of
[38:16] you may know that I was
[38:18] police chief in Burlington for several
[38:20] years before taking this position for the
[38:22] state. That's something I also saw in
[38:25] Burlington. We have observed the
[38:27] creation, by Governor
[38:29] Scott, of the so-called court of
[38:31] accountability, which began in
[38:33] Chittenden County, but has been
[38:35] successful here. We have analyzed the
[38:38] idea of ​​moving people
[38:40] through the system more quickly
[38:42] , that is, through the
[38:44] trial stage, the due process part of the
[38:46] system, and, when necessary,
[38:48] using incarceration as a
[38:50] response to people's illegal and
[38:52] criminal behavior. Regarding the
[38:55] work here in Rutland, I am
[38:57] proud to say that our
[38:59] Rutland probation office
[39:02] works very closely with the
[39:03] Rutland Police Department.
[39:07] Our district manager, Justin, is
[39:09] someone who is very involved with
[39:11] the police. We've been paying closer attention
[39:14] to the property in question since
[39:16] these issues arose, but we
[39:18] 're taking it very, very seriously.
[39:21] I hear the concerns that have been
[39:22] expressed tonight. We'll revisit
[39:25] this in the broadcast with other
[39:27] parts of the team and take it very
[39:29] seriously. And I am very grateful for the
[39:32] opportunity to speak before this
[39:34] body, both to the council members and
[39:36] to the residents.
[39:38] Good, commissioner. Thank you so much for
[39:40] that. Thank you. So I'm going to go over here
[39:42] inside the railing and see which
[39:44] board members
[39:46] wish to speak. And it seems we have
[39:47] several hands raised, so I'm going to
[39:49] give the floor. Larry wants to
[39:50] go first. Councilman Reilly.
[39:52] Thank you, Mr. President. Is there
[39:53] anyone here from Pathways
[39:55] representing Pathways tonight?
[39:58] Behind you. I
[40:03] just have a couple of questions if...
[40:06] you wish to answer, you certainly may
[40:08] , but you are not obligated to. Please
[40:10] excuse my stumble while speaking.
[40:13] Who is responsible for that house in
[40:16] terms of maintenance and
[40:19] ensuring that the occupants do
[40:22] what they are supposed to do? Is there
[40:26] staff on site?
[40:28] There are staff present at the location.
[40:31] Sorry? Yes please.
[40:34] Yes, if I could. So, yes. Thank you
[40:37] . Thank you. I don't want to put you on the
[40:39] spot, but this is your chance
[40:41] to give your side of the story
[40:43] too, and that would be a great help.
[40:45] So, if I could ask for your name
[40:46] too.
[40:46] Clear. Well, my name is Sierra
[40:48] Streeter, and I'm the
[40:49] statewide housing operations manager
[40:51] for Pathways Vermont. I work closely
[40:53] with the Department of
[40:55] Corrections staff for the
[40:57] transitional housing program that supports
[40:59] individuals at 43 Evergreen and other
[41:01] properties.
[41:02] Understood.
[41:03] First of all, I
[41:05] want to echo the
[41:08] Commissioner's statement that
[41:10] Pathways also listens to you and wants you to
[41:13] know that you are being heard, that we
[41:15] take what you say very seriously and
[41:18] validate your points. So I just
[41:21] wanted to start by saying that to all of
[41:22] you.
[41:26] As for who is responsible for
[41:27] that particular property, I believe that
[41:29] was Aldama Cooley's question.
[41:31] Yes. We have a
[41:33] lease agreement with the
[41:35] building owner. Maintenance, such as mowing
[41:38] the lawn, clearing snow, and removing
[41:41] trash, are included in
[41:43] our rental agreement with the owner. I can
[41:46] talk about the lawn mowing situation
[41:49] . One of the
[41:52] maintenance people was unable to work. And I
[41:56] was looking for someone else to
[41:57] do it. We weren't
[42:00] immediately aware of that. So I
[42:02] apologize because the property did not
[42:04] meet the
[42:05] community's needs and expectations regarding
[42:07] lawn mowing.
[42:09] Okay, and a follow-up question.
[42:10] Forward.
[42:11] If you'll allow me, one more question.
[42:13] Is the property owner a
[42:15] local resident? Are they a resident of the
[42:18] state? I
[42:19] don't know his home address
[42:21] or if he lives in the state of California.
[42:24] Yes. And what is the
[42:29] monthly rent for that property?
[42:32] Per unit?
[42:34] Yes.
[42:34] I think it's $1,250. Is
[42:37] that for the whole house?
[42:39] No, that's just for an apartment.
[42:41] Sorry?
[42:41] Just for an apartment.
[42:43] Thank you. And what responsibilities does
[42:47] Pathways have to ensure that these
[42:52] residents behave, I suppose?
[42:56] Clear. Obviously, we do not enforce
[42:59] anyone's conditions under the
[43:01] Department of Corrections. That's
[43:04] from the Department of Corrections, and
[43:06] we maintain close communication
[43:08] with them about it. They are given an
[43:12] agreement, which was recently changed to
[43:14] give us a more effective way to
[43:16] remove someone from the house
[43:19] more quickly. Um. So we hope that's
[43:23] something that can help. We
[43:25] implemented it in July. And now, if we are
[43:28] informed of a
[43:30] serious problem, we can remove them immediately,
[43:32] which was not the case previously.
[43:34] Um, therefore, they are following an
[43:37] agreement based on participation and
[43:39] fulfilling their obligations
[43:41] under that agreement, so they
[43:43] cannot violate it, um, or they will be asked
[43:46] to leave. Um, they are also asked
[43:49] to participate in, um,
[43:52] constructive activities, such as looking for another
[43:54] home, looking for income, things like that.
[43:57] Um, there's no supervision on site. We do not
[43:59] provide them with treatment. It is not
[44:02] a requirement to be a previous user of
[44:04] substances to enter that
[44:07] property, nor to be sober. Um, so
[44:11] .
[44:14] So there's really no oversight
[44:16] there.
[44:17] So if I could. I just want to
[44:19] make sure that's clear. The
[44:21] agreement is between Pathways and the
[44:23] resident of the, uh.
[44:25] The occupant, yes.
[44:26] the occupant of the property and that is
[44:28] signed at the beginning of the residence.
[44:30] Correct.
[44:30] OK.
[44:31] And their conditions are incorporated
[44:33] into that. So if they break their
[44:34] conditions, they are also breaking
[44:35] our agreement. Therefore, we
[44:37] can also ask them to leave if they have
[44:38] breached their conditions in the case.
[44:39] And I think I know the answer to this
[44:41] question. Most of us
[44:43] know this, but there is no staff on
[44:45] site, um, during the day or night
[44:47] monitoring the comings and goings of
[44:49] the, uh, occupants. Is that correct?
[44:52] 24/7, no, there is no supervision on
[44:54] site.
[44:54] Yes. Very good. Thank you. So I'm going to
[44:57] continue. Thank you.
[44:58] so much. You are
[44:59] welcome.
[45:00] Councillor Clifford.
[45:01] Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. President
[45:03] , could you just, uh, ask
[45:04] the commissioner a question, please? He
[45:05] certainly can do it. I think
[45:06] you, you...should we
[45:07] start with each other or not?
[45:08] Okay, go ahead.
[45:09] OK.
[45:10] Yes. Thanks for coming up there.
[45:12] Thank you. Commissioner, if you don't mind
[45:14] , we have a council member who has
[45:15] a question for you. He is Paul
[45:17] Clifford.
[45:18] Thank you for coming, Commissioner. Um,
[45:19] simply because of what we're
[45:21] dealing with and what the neighbors have
[45:23] been dealing with for the past
[45:25] 4 years, um, can you envision
[45:27] this house being shut down and the occupants being
[45:29] relocated? I ca
[45:31] n't commit to any of that at
[45:32] this time. I, I, we, as I
[45:35] said, this is something that has occupied us
[45:37] since we found out after the
[45:38] last meeting of the Board of
[45:40] Councilors or not the last one, there
[45:42] may have been other
[45:43] intermediate meetings, but the meeting in which
[45:45] this was raised. We've been thinking about
[45:49] it a lot, talking about it a lot, we've
[45:51] had personal and
[45:53] professional meetings with various stakeholders,
[45:55] but I can't commit to any
[45:57] specific motion or effort at this
[45:59] time. There are many pieces at stake, and
[46:02] that includes our position in other
[46:04] locations in the city and across the
[46:06] state. The ability to house
[46:09] people leaving a period of
[46:12] incarceration is extremely important
[46:14] to our obligation to ensure
[46:17] that they successfully reintegrate into the
[46:19] community. I
[46:21] understand, but are you aware
[46:24] of any other places in the state
[46:26] with a similar situation?
[46:29] At this time, no, I am not
[46:30] aware of any other place that has.
[46:33] I was referring to this because of this
[46:34] situation, because of what these people
[46:36] have been going through for the past
[46:38] 4 years. I was hoping that you and your team
[46:42] could seriously consider closing it
[46:46] and relocating.
[46:48] We are seriously considering every
[46:50] option in front of us
[46:51] at this time, sir.
[46:53] Thank you.
[46:53] Alright
[46:54] . I'll give you the floor on that
[46:56] .
[46:58] Although I appreciate that the commissioner
[46:59] says they have been addressing these
[47:01] issues since the residents
[47:03] brought them to the commission's attention
[47:05] . My question is, where has
[47:08] the oversight been for the
[47:09] past 4 years? They can talk a lot
[47:11] about wanting to believe in the program and
[47:13] helping people integrate into the
[47:15] community. I think that's fantastic.
[47:17] But without supervision, what good is it?
[47:20] If there is no oversight, if there is no
[47:22] accountability for anyone
[47:23] living there, everything falls on the neighbors
[47:25] to deal with the
[47:27] negative consequences.
[47:27] And the municipal police.
[47:29] And if a
[47:31] neighborhood is going to have one of these
[47:33] houses basically placed in the middle of
[47:35] their homes, there should be, there should be
[47:38] oversight. There should be an
[47:41] equal amount of effort, money,
[47:43] and thought invested in what will be done
[47:47] for supervision as in
[47:49] how we are going to help these people
[47:51] make the transition. And it seems somewhat
[47:53] unbalanced. It seems that the emphasis
[47:55] is more on helping these people
[47:57] who are in transition, but if there is no
[47:58] accountability for them,
[48:00] then you are not really
[48:01] helping them either.
[48:02] Correct.
[48:06] Thank you so much.
[48:07] But I think some
[48:09] things have been said. I suppose one question I
[48:11] have, perhaps for the commissioner, is
[48:13] how are they being housed there? How are they being
[48:15] placed there? Is there a court order
[48:18] that says they're going to 43 Evergreen
[48:20] Avenue? What are they like? How are they being housed
[48:24] on this property?
[48:29] I, I guess, my name is Gary
[48:30] Marvel. I am the director of
[48:32] adult services.
[48:33] Yes,
[48:35] thanks. Thank you for getting up.
[48:37] Thank you.
[48:38] Yes, there is a case assignment process
[48:40] . Essentially, the case is reviewed
[48:42] . Uh, one of the things we look at is
[48:44] essentially whether we have to release them
[48:46] or not. Most people in
[48:48] Vermont, um, are essentially
[48:49] non-discretionary release because
[48:51] most people under
[48:53] supervision in the community are on
[48:54] probation, which may
[48:56] mean they were never
[48:57] incarcerated in the first place. Um, we
[48:59] 've expanded to house people
[49:01] on parole. We found
[49:03] that they default at a higher rate
[49:04] when they are homeless. Um, and, uh,
[49:06] especially when we consider
[49:08] some of the more serious cases like,
[49:09] uh, sex offenders and
[49:11] domestic violence, we definitely want them to be
[49:13] housed. We want to know
[49:14] where they are at night.
[49:15] Is this a condition of their
[49:17] release?
[49:17] Yes, that, that depends on the court. It
[49:20] depends on the
[49:21] parole board and it depends on the
[49:22] risk level of your early release.
[49:24] Good, because that affects how
[49:26] our ordinance is applied. So, that was
[49:28] a question. Um, my other, my other
[49:30] question is: is anyone paying
[49:33] Pathways? I assume it's the
[49:35] Vermont State Department of Correction that's supposed to
[49:37] oversee this, which isn't happening
[49:38] . And the concern is that there's also
[49:42] a park. Um, there was talk of
[49:44] Gergette Park, uh, Pine Hill Park is
[49:46] at the end of that street. Lots of traffic,
[49:49] lots of children. And then, going down
[49:53] the hill a little, there are two kindergarten
[49:55] to second grade schools there. Um, from what
[49:59] we've heard, there are a variety of
[50:01] criminals living in the house. Um,
[50:04] and it's totally inappropriate. Completely
[50:07] inappropriate. People have the right to
[50:09] go home and live in their little piece
[50:11] of heaven without these things happening. And it
[50:14] 's inappropriate. It's inappropriate for
[50:16] Pathways to be taking money from the
[50:18] state, from the state of Vermont, and
[50:19] not actually doing anything. I passed
[50:22] by there, oh, I don't know, a couple of
[50:24] weeks ago. I suppose that perhaps after
[50:26] the first time Katrina was
[50:27] here, the gates were wide open
[50:29] , there wasn't a curtain in
[50:31] sight, the grass was
[50:32] everywhere, trash everywhere, some
[50:34] kind of beat-up car in the driveway
[50:36] . We're not going to betray each other
[50:39] . If Kurt and I are in trouble, I'm not
[50:41] going to rat him out, and he's not going to rat me out
[50:42] . That's why Pathways needs to
[50:45] be there, and that needs to change
[50:47] immediately. If they're not going to close this house
[50:50] , then they need to make sure there's
[50:51] oversight and accountability,
[50:53] because this isn't right.
[50:55] Mjm.
[50:55] We agree.
[50:56] The city of Rutland, in my opinion,
[50:58] has had more than its fair share.
[51:00] We agree that there needs to be
[51:01] oversight and accountability
[51:02] for that site now.
[51:03] Thank you.
[51:04] Okay, thank you very much. OK.
[51:07] So, uh,
[51:08] sir, Mr. President,
[51:09] could you...?
[51:09] Yes, it certainly can. Yes.
[51:12] Uh, for the Pathways representative,
[51:14] going back to something you said earlier about
[51:16] if an occupant violates the terms
[51:19] of the agreement that puts them on this
[51:21] property, you said that at that point
[51:23] we can ask them to leave. What
[51:27] happens if they say no?
[51:28] They have to leave, and they have to leave.
[51:29] So, it's not a request, it's a "you're
[51:31] done."
[51:32] Um, yes, excuse me. He was speaking
[51:34] diplomatically.
[51:35] Good. No, no, that's why I asked. They are only
[51:37] on the property and have no
[51:39] tenancy rights to remain there.
[51:41] Good. That's why I asked. I just wanted to
[51:44] understand. Good. OK. Very good.
[51:47] So, we've listened to almost everyone I
[51:49] think wants to talk. I'm going to
[51:51] be polite and ask the commissioner
[51:53] if he has anything else he'd like to say
[51:55] before we conclude. I'm going to wrap this up as
[51:59] best I can here. So, I
[52:02] just want to clarify that there have been 10
[52:04] objections from that site throughout
[52:06] its existence. Uh, when there are
[52:09] violations, there are repercussions. Are they
[52:12] sufficient? Do we need to improve
[52:14] supervision? Uh, we've been
[52:17] paying extra attention, having
[52:19] additional visits from members of the
[52:21] PNP office in Rutland. But the
[52:24] idea that there are no repercussions for
[52:26] people who act
[52:28] inappropriately is not entirely accurate.
[52:30] Nor is it true that they do not
[52:33] report each other. A
[52:35] significant number of the calls during
[52:37] this time period have, in
[52:39] fact, been from residents trying,
[52:41] so to speak, to betray other
[52:42] residents. Um, and that's also a
[52:45] component. None of that is an
[52:48] excuse. I offer it only as an
[52:50] explanation and clarification. We recognize
[52:52] that there is a situation here that we
[52:54] are not seeing elsewhere and we
[52:56] are taking it seriously.
[52:58] Fine, thanks. So, I'm just going to say
[53:01] a couple of things. I want to make sure
[53:05] that, uh, you, uh, leave knowing
[53:09] how we feel. I suppose I can't
[53:12] speak for everyone on the Board of
[53:13] Council. I'll speak for myself,
[53:15] but you've already heard it from a couple of
[53:16] different people. Um, my
[53:19] firm advice would be to close that facility,
[53:22] because no matter how many people you
[53:24] bring in now to supervise, the damage
[53:27] is already done. The damage has been done in that
[53:31] neighborhood. There's no going back
[53:34] . I think he needs to reevaluate
[53:36] how he's doing things.
[53:39] Obviously in that facility,
[53:41] but also in other facilities in
[53:42] Rutland, because we don't want to see
[53:44] this happen again elsewhere. In
[53:46] larger communities, you were the
[53:48] chief in Burlington. I'm sure
[53:50] something like that must have come up at some
[53:52] point up there. There were 45,000
[53:54] people up there and a lot of
[53:57] good people, but also some bad ones and,
[53:59] um, you know, this is just, I think what
[54:02] Tom said is exactly right
[54:05] . The underlying problem is the
[54:08] revolving door and the people who end up back on
[54:10] the street. But, um, I
[54:12] want to make sure you understand from
[54:14] my point of view, and I think from several
[54:17] of us on the Board of
[54:18] Councillors, is that, um, my assumption
[54:20] is that the mayor also wants that
[54:22] facility to be closed. So.
[54:25] Um, okay. Anyone else
[54:29] quick? Alex?
[54:30] Yes, I'll be very brief. I'll be brief
[54:32] because, frankly, I'm furious. Um,
[54:34] I'd like to thank the representatives from
[54:37] DOC and Pathways for showing up today. Um,
[54:40] I'm a little discouraged and disappointed
[54:42] by the diplomacy in the speech. Um, it
[54:45] sounds like something I could read on their
[54:47] website. Um, that's not enough. What he
[54:49] 's saying isn't enough. The
[54:50] fact that you show up here
[54:52] is not enough. Hey, what he's
[54:54] doing is harming the
[54:55] neighbors. He's standing in front of the
[54:56] neighbors who have been putting up with this
[54:58] for the last 4 years and saying,
[54:59] "Hey, it's really not that bad." That
[55:00] offends me. I'm, I'm simply
[55:03] furious. I disagree with that. And
[55:05] as someone who went through a
[55:06] rehabilitation center and had
[55:08] proper supervision and was able to change his life, he
[55:10] is doing absolute harm to those
[55:12] people in that house. There is
[55:13] absolutely no chance,
[55:15] when you put someone in that kind of
[55:17] condition and environment, of them
[55:19] recovering and reintegrating into society
[55:21] . This is simply ridiculous.
[55:23] Thanks, Alex.
[55:29] Okay, the motion is to adjourn the session
[55:30] .
[55:31] That's how it will be done.
[55:32] The session is adjourned.