[0:02] There you go.
>> All right. Good evening everyone.
[0:05] Welcome to the regular meeting of the
Rland County Select Board. Today is
[0:09] September
8th and this is our regular meeting.
[0:16] We have with us I think it's Sharon's
turn to start. Um selectable members
[0:22] Sharon Russell, Matt Getty, Mary Ashcro,
and Kurt Hathaway. missing is excused
[0:29] absence of Joe. Leonardo is desperately
trying to get his hay in before the the
[0:35] rain tomorrow. So, uh, if you would all
please rise and stand for the pledge of
[0:40] » allegiance
[0:44] to the flag of the United States of
America to the republic for its nation,
[0:54] liberty andice for all.
[1:01] Okay.
[1:05] So, what we're going to do
is deviating a little bit from unusual
[1:11] agenda. Um,
what we're going to do is some of the
[1:16] preliminaries. We're going to do the
minutes. Uh, and now we're going to be
[1:20] some announcements. And then
what we're going to do is go into
[1:26] executive session if the if the board
agrees to hear advice from our town
[1:32] council and then we're going to come
back
[1:36] and we will take up the request of
habitat. So that's kind of what we're
[1:43] going to do. Then then what we also
usually do is take up other folks who
[1:49] are not otherwise on the agenda. Um and
we've heard that there might be someone
[1:55] coming in.
Um but we haven't seen anyone yet.
[2:01] Um but the credit union is on the
agenda. So we'll hear from you folks as
[2:08] well.
And then we take our usual is Devon.
[2:16] Devon's on the agenda as well. Is he
zooming?
[2:18] » He was going to be here.
>> Okay.
[2:21] » All right. So, well, we've got things
kind of mapped out, but subject to
[2:25] change. Um, okay. Minutes of the select
board meeting for August 25th.
[2:42] Move to approve.
>> Motion one to approve
[2:46] » and seconded. Any additions,
corrections, deletions.
[2:53] » All in favor of approving the minutes,
please say I.
[2:57] » I.
>> I. Motion carries for 01 extensions.
[3:02] I'm circulating.
[3:10] All right.
Next, approval of the orders. They're
[3:15] over here. I think all four of us have
signed. Is there a motion?
[3:20] » Second.
>> Motion's been made and seconded to
[3:22] approve the orders. Any discussion,
additions, deletions? I think we
[3:28] understand
the police fire
[3:33] um communications bill. So we now that
we understand it um that will come out
[3:39] of depreciation if we approve the
orders.
[3:44] If there's no further discussion, all in
favor of approving the orders, please
[3:48] say I. I.
>> I. Motion carries 40
[3:53] with one absent. Are there any board
member announcements?
[4:02] Update from the select board chair. Just
a reminder, thank you. That the circle
[4:07] articles are due
on the 15th.
[4:13] So, please do department heads and
others who are interested in getting
[4:17] information. It's just a week away.
um
[4:22] getting information published about what
might be coming up. Uh like oh, I don't
[4:27] know, snowplow policy
or
[4:31] » replacing replacing mailboxes, that kind
of thing. This would be a good time to,
[4:38] you know, put that in. Um if there's
And Carrie, I want to chat with you
[4:44] about maybe doing a joint article
together. You don't have to, but I
[4:50] thought maybe if we kind of
>> Yeah, did submit one already, but
[4:54] » Oh, good. Good for you. Okay. Well, if
you have
[4:57] » Yeah. Okay.
>> All right. Very good. It would be about
[5:02] the tax bills.
>> Is that what you wrote about?
[5:08] » Is that what you wrote about? Okay. All
right. Let's talk then. Okay.
[5:15] » All right. Are there any questions from
the floor or public comments other than
[5:22] the folks who we know are here
to
[5:30] anybody on Zoom who has a comment who is
not otherwise on the agenda?
[5:41] » The bottom.
>> Okay. Uh, Brown Heart is Kevin.
[5:46] » That's me, Mary.
>> Oh, I get it. Is that you, Kevin?
[5:50] » Kevin. Yep.
[5:55] » Please.
>> Yeah. Well,
[6:05] okay. Uh, could you
uh Kevin Brown, town attorney, I think
[6:11] you are on.
>> Yeah.
[6:14] » Yes, I'm Brown.
[6:18] » He's quiet.
>> Okay,
[6:20] » you're here.
>> All right. Um, so since our town
[6:26] attorney appears to be on,
what we're going to do is, as outlined,
[6:32] um, go into executive session to listen
to our attorney's legal counsel.
[6:39] Is there a motion?
>> So move.
[6:41] » Motion's made. Is there a second?
>> And seconded. Any discussion?
[6:47] All in favor of going into executive
session, please say I.
[6:52] » I. Motion carries 4 zero. So now clear
the room. All right.
[6:56] » Everybody still have a meeting. So
>> okay, we are back on the record. It is
[7:01] 20 6. We have come out of executive
session.
[7:05] Um the first item that we're going to
take up is under action item A, the
[7:11] board to discuss the petition from
Habitat for Humanity.
[7:17] And
[7:20] is there
is there a motion or do we want to hear
[7:25] from Rebecca briefly? What do we want to
do? We do have our attorney still on the
[7:29] line. He has a another meeting to go to,
but he's on the line. He's not going to
[7:34] be debating as far as I'm I'm concerned.
I know he has been in touch with you at
[7:38] our request. So, okay.
Well, I guess we're kind of waiting to
[7:44] hear what we we've turned in a petition
with the 5% signatures and our
[7:50] expectation is it'll go to ballot. So,
okay. Is there based upon what we've
[7:58] discussed with our attorney and other
considerations, is there a motion
[8:03] concerning that petition?
[8:13] » I think that's for
based on the advice that we received
[8:19] regarding this petition, I'm going to
move that we do not accept
[8:25] as drafted.
Um, meaning we not be putting it on the
[8:29] ballot.
>> Second.
[8:32] » Motion's been made and seconded not to
accept the petition as drafted and not
[8:38] put it on the November ballot.
Discussion
[8:44] » say anything, Mary, or is it just
discussion? Well, let's let's start here
[8:48] and then we'll see if there are folks
other folks who may want to add some
[8:53] » um
one and and I think Kevin shared this
[8:58] with you as well. One major problem with
what you drafted was it would um absolve
[9:06] you of taxes for this current year that
we're in. and Kevin researched this and
[9:12] the case law basically says there is a
separate process for that. You don't do
[9:18] it by petition. So that that is one of
the reasons why um the petition is
[9:25] defective because it deals with the year
that we're currently in and case law
[9:30] says you can't do that. That's one
reason. Um the other is that we were
[9:36] trying to
[9:40] figure out, and I'm not sure Carrie has
the answer to this, but if
[9:46] um how many ballots do we mail out, the
state is responsible for mailing out the
[9:51] ballots for the general election, which
is a state election.
[9:56] This would be a town election, a
sidebyside town election, run at the
[10:01] same time with the same ballot clerks,
but we would have a separate ballot. And
[10:06] the question has come up, do we then
have to mail out that ballot to every
[10:12] voter in Rutland Town? My hunch is no,
but I don't know the answer to that. I
[10:18] think my guess would be it's available
when people come in to vote. If they
[10:25] have voted absentee because they got the
state ballot in the mail, they would
[10:30] have to come in and vote here. And I'm
not sure how that would happen. So the
[10:34] there's going to be election confusion
as well. Um and the the third reason
[10:40] that we're concerned about is setting a
precedent for any nonprofit organization
[10:47] who wants to ask well, you know, an
abatement of taxes for the past year. So
[10:55] we we do want to we're conscious of
that. We want to be careful. Um, so any
[11:01] other reasons that you can think of?
>> The motion's pending.
[11:07] » Any other remarks? Yes.
>> Okay. So, we very much appreciate your
[11:12] um thinking about it. Um, so
yes, we did speak with your attorney and
[11:17] we have I just have six focus points I
want us to remember as we move through
[11:21] the process um of what we're going to
say next. Just so um you understand. So,
[11:27] we meaning Habitat when I refer to it.
Um, we've been doing our best to follow
[11:31] the known process or rules and we have
been sent in circles repeatedly on this.
[11:38] Um, we acknowledge that a municipality
is under no obligation to assist a
[11:42] taxpayer. However, when that
non-assisted that non-assistance rises
[11:48] to the level of obstruction and thereby
compromises the fundamental fairness of
[11:51] the process, the matter does warrant
scrutiny. and we do ask that that be
[11:56] given some consideration in the future.
Um, we believe that our tax exemption
[12:01] was denied erroneously on the mistaken
claim that our building is not used
[12:04] primarily for our mission. We're not
we're just stating that again. So, our
[12:08] point of view and we would like to
mention that if we had just moved over
[12:12] the border into Rutland City, um, we
would not be having this issue. And we
[12:17] wanted to reference uh there's many
nonprofits in Rutland City, but one
[12:21] particularly the Open Door Mission,
which is so closely related to what we
[12:25] do. Um as far as homeing, it is
homelessness, it's not home ownership,
[12:32] but they do run a thrift store to
support their mission. Um, there's
[12:36] Brock, there's Newstory, there's the
Parent Child Center, there's the Rutland
[12:40] Community Covered, there's Rutland
Regional Medical Center, just to name a
[12:43] few of the nonprofits who are diligently
filling the service gaps in our
[12:47] communities for the most vulnerable and
being recognized and supported for the
[12:51] work they are doing. And that includes
having their exemption from property
[12:54] taxes,
um, including municipal and education
[12:58] recognized. And this allows their donor
dollars to go to their missions. We just
[13:03] want to remind everyone that Habitat for
Humanity of Rutland County is the only
[13:06] builder of affordable housing for home
ownership. Nobody else does what we do.
[13:12] Just Habitat. We have submitted a
petition with the required signatures
[13:16] and expect um along with the 5% of our
voters expect it to be taken to ballot.
[13:22] And our donors have entrusted us with
their money to build affordable housing,
[13:26] not to fund lawyers arguing over gray
area in the statute. So here's what
[13:30] we're proposing. We come up with a
proposal
[13:34] and we hope that this might help.
>> Why don't you just read it out loud so
[13:37] everybody want this though for you?
>> Go ahead with that.
[13:40] » Okay.
>> Dear members of the Rutland Oh, you want
[13:43] to read this cuz it's from you.
>> Sure.
[13:44] » There you go. Okay.
>> So, um
[13:47] » could you identify yourself?
>> So, my name is Eric. The last name is
[13:50] Salsa. I'm the chair of the Habitat for
Humanity Rutland County. So throughout
[13:55] this and um our dear members of the
Rutland Town Select Board throughout
[13:59] this entire process from the original
denial letter of our tax exempt status
[14:04] from property taxes by the listister
then the BCA and finally this board the
[14:10] message from Rutland Town has been
Habitat must go to the voters. We have
[14:15] diligently collected and submitted the
necessary signatures to support going to
[14:20] the ballot.
It is our understanding that the town's
[14:23] attorney, Kevin Brown, is now
recommending that this board deny our
[14:27] submitted petition based on the
position, quote, "the voters do not have
[14:31] the power to override the listers once
the grand list is set," unquote. It is
[14:38] also our understanding that other than
the wording quote commencing with the
[14:43] 2026 to 2027 year quote unquote there is
no other stated issue with our petition.
[14:51] We believe we believe the petition
language satisfies the statutory intent
[14:56] of title 32 section 384 uh 3840 and 17
VSA section 2643A
[15:07] and that there is a statutory authority
to exempt real and personal property in
[15:13] the tax year the vote is taken.
That said, in a spirit of collaboration
[15:18] and putting the needs of our community
first, we are willing to concede this
[15:22] point. If the select board objects to
the specific reference quote commencing
[15:28] with the 2026 2027 tax year, we will
agree to allow the select board to
[15:33] exercise its authority to amend the
final article text for the town warning
[15:39] to read quote commencing with the 2027
to 2028 tax year while honoring the
[15:47] valid signatures of the voters. We would
note that even if the petition language
[15:52] isn't perfect on this narrow point, a
disagreement over the applicable tax
[15:57] year is not enough to invalidate an
otherwise valid petition. Uh the core
[16:02] intent and statutory basis remain sound
and the signatures collected reflect
[16:07] that intent.
Ultimately, we urge the select board to
[16:11] use common sense and to put the good of
the community ahead of this legal
[16:15] disagreement. The voter's voice should
be allowed to be heard and that's
[16:19] sincerely Eric Sulsa. Would
>> you like to copy now?
[16:23] » Um yeah, we can I wanted it read and for
Okay.
[16:28] So at this point, what's
[16:33] what's on the table is to deny
the as written petition. Okay. Is there
[16:42] any
>> is there can I just ask a question?
[16:46] » You can ask a question.
>> Okay. It from what we have learned is
[16:51] the select board does have the authority
to change the language of the petition.
[17:00] Are you aware of that?
I know that we have the authority to put
[17:07] our own
um items on the ballot for consideration
[17:12] by voters. I know we have that authority
>> because it's it's honestly super
[17:18] frustrating that you've had this
petition for a long time and at the last
[17:24] minute have said we are now finding it
um
[17:28] » unable to we have not had your petition
in and filed with us.
[17:34] » So
um pardon me sorry I'm just to clarify
[17:38] what Eric's referring to if I may. So,
back at the meeting on in July 14th, um
[17:44] when we submitted the copy of our
petition to you guys, you asked us to
[17:48] the question.
>> Um then we met again on July 28th um to
[17:53] ask whether or not you guys would put it
on this select board would put it on the
[17:57] um ballot without the signatures because
we were trying to get you to be able to
[18:02] have the state print the ballots for you
so there wouldn't be a question that
[18:05] you're now bringing up about how do you
do it.
[18:08] » Okay. So when you guys said no and um
one of the reasons that um Mr. Getty had
[18:14] brought up was that our lawyer didn't
write this question. We don't even know
[18:18] if it's legal.
>> So at that point there was a question in
[18:21] front of the select board. Someone had a
question that it may not be 100% but you
[18:26] had the question. I went back and
actually did my due diligence to find if
[18:30] the language we were giving you was
legal and based on our legal advice
[18:34] given to us it was. So, what we're
trying to say is our legal advice can
[18:40] say this, your legal advice can say
that. What we're asking for is from day
[18:46] one when the listister put on the denial
letter,
[18:53] um, hold on. We had it right here that
we were denied our exemption. Okay.
[19:01] unless or until the town voters vote to
exempt the property from property
[19:06] payment of property tax. So from that
day on March 11th, we have been doing
[19:10] everything we can get the voters's voice
heard. We are finally there and we are
[19:17] willing to compromise
with the town. Hey 2026 and 27, which
[19:24] let me tell you, it's a hard hit for
Habitat. It's over $10,000.
[19:30] It's payroll money. It's building money.
It's money to
[19:34] » We're taxpayers, too. We understand
about the hit.
[19:38] » We're We're trying to be good stewards
of what the donors have trusted us with.
[19:43] We are offering a compromise at this
moment. You have 5% of your voters have
[19:48] agreed to have at least the voters hear
on it how they want to vote. If we
[19:54] change the date to 2728,
it would be an easy solution moving
[20:00] forward. Let the voters vote. It's all
we're asking tonight.
[20:06] » Um Barry, some clarification maybe.
>> I called the election division. Yeah.
[20:12] » And they said if you're going to change
a petition, you need to have a brand new
[20:17] petition with signatures.
>> With brand new signatures signatures.
[20:23] » Yes.
Mary, it's Kevin.
[20:28] » All right. Um,
[20:31] » Mary, you can you can The law is, as I
understand it, uh,
[20:38] a board can make
u
[20:43] nonsubstantive changes to a petition,
but it can't change it can't make a
[20:48] substantive change to a petition that's
filed. And changing the year of
[20:54] commencement in my view would be
substantive
[20:58] » which makes sense because substantive
change people are signing one thing and
[21:03] then it becomes something else. So I
think Carrie and I are saying the same
[21:06] thing.
>> Okay.
[21:09] » And Lost is here. Lawson Stevens I do
want to make one comment and that is the
[21:15] board of civil authority did not vote on
this. I was here I think Lawson is here
[21:21] too.
Well, we were here.
[21:24] » The petition was withdrawn by you folks.
>> That's because you did not
[21:30] » We did not vote on it.
>> You did not vote on it. The BCA refused
[21:35] to take it up. Several comments were
made. Mr. Giles, Mr. Chaffy
[21:42] said, "Why is this not going to the
voter?"
[21:46] Um
he said because we're supposed to be in
[21:50] front of the BCA. They said we're not
going to take it up.
[21:53] » And that's when my attorney did turn to
me and say the town asked you to go to
[21:58] the voter.
Go to the voter. And so that's what we
[22:01] decided called a special meeting for it.
So we did take it up. We did have it
[22:06] before us. We were debating it with you
and then you withdrew the request. So, I
[22:12] don't want
>> That's
[22:15] mayor, I have to say that's a point I
happen to disagree on.
[22:18] » I I very much disagree with your
characterization of a denial by the BCA.
[22:22] » No, they didn't deny it.
>> You said you wouldn't take it up.
[22:24] » They wouldn't take it up and take an
actual vote. If they had denied us,
[22:28] » we could have went to superior court,
>> but you had your lawyer here giving you
[22:32] advice, and we are not in the position
of giving legal advice. So, I I know,
[22:38] you know, it's frustrating for us, too.
You've got two folks sitting here in a
[22:44] club that donated a very large chunk of
money to Habitat and it's not
[22:51] » any we are trying to do
>> a difficult balancing test here
[22:58] » to serve our constituents the town and
that's
[23:03] we've we've got to do that as best we
can. I'm just wondering if the the date
[23:08] of substantive that now you that we're
defining the change of a date. We're
[23:14] looking at a 10-year exemption.
>> Mhm.
[23:17] » And Habitat is willing to come to the
table and say fine, we're not going to
[23:22] go for 26 27 make it 2728.
>> Okay.
[23:27] » Then
>> it's it this is essentially the same
[23:30] question. We we can't make that change
of life for we're opening up the town to
[23:35] get sued. We just can't do it. If
somebody happens to be a Habitat hater,
[23:41] this hit the paper, they can come back
to the town because we made a change on
[23:46] a petition and put it to a ballot.
>> I'd like to say
[23:50] » we just can't do it. I mean, there's a
process and a process has to be done.
[23:54] And we I mean I'm going to vote for you
guys when it's on the ballot, but it has
[23:59] to get there. It has to get there the
right way. Unfortunately, it didn't
[24:03] this.
[24:07] » Yes. I'd like to clarify something.
The open door mission went through this
[24:13] whole process. They didn't just hand it
to us. So, I don't want the folks out
[24:18] there because you brought the mission up
to think that we were gifted it. We had
[24:24] to go through the petitions and
everything else before the open door
[24:29] mission could open up. The open door
mission
[24:34] cost the taxpayers
that much. The only way we get to
[24:40] operate is that thrift store and nothing
else. So I don't want people thinking
[24:47] that it's different than it is. It is
not. And I'm offended. Are you bringing
[24:53] it up with the mission first? Because
I'm sitting here because I I um ran the
[25:00] mission for almost 40 years.
I step away from
[25:08] um
things like this if it's going to make a
[25:12] difference because I I ran the mission
and I can separate that and I do
[25:20] separate that. We had the advice of our
attorney. I'm going to follow the advice
[25:25] of the attorney.
And I believe in in what you do,
[25:31] but you have to understand
if we make an exception for you,
[25:38] we've put oursel in a in a pretty tough
spot for anybody else that comes in. So
[25:46] So Sharon, I appreciate that. No offense
was intended. actions. We brought up the
[25:50] open door mission because we are
[25:56] we are extremely grateful for the path
they've already made for the rest of the
[26:01] nonprofits. And after speaking to the
current executive director and
[26:06] understanding the process you guys had
to go through, which is why we've
[26:09] embraced the fact of going to the
voters, which is why we're here, trying
[26:13] to make sure that the work that we've
done for the last 2 and 1/2 months of
[26:18] getting all these signatures and trying
to make sure we had it done right and
[26:22] asking attorneys and get it's just been
it's been a journey to finally be here.
[26:28] And because there's a date and a
question as to whether or not you can
[26:32] exempt it,
the advice on the our side is there's
[26:37] precedent to be able to go back and do
it. The advice on your side there isn't.
[26:43] And we could spend months and tons of
donor money fighting.
[26:47] » Where is your attorney?
>> They don't have to bring their attorney.
[26:52] So we don't have it. But what I'm just
saying is is what we're just hoping is
[26:55] that we can
get the voters's voice heard and that's
[27:00] all we wanted to do and so thank you for
hearing us tonight.
[27:04] » We have
Lost wanted to be heard and Marie
[27:09] Fagnet's got her hand raised on Zoom so
[27:15] » you don't have to say anything.
>> Uh Lawson Steven I'm a Rutland town. My
[27:20] wife and I are retired and uh
uh this property not being on the grand
[27:28] list, we're not going to feel that, you
know, in in our taxes. It's not it's not
[27:33] that big a pinch. It sounds to me like
uh
[27:37] uh
well, I've always thought of uh Rutland
[27:41] Town as as a a good citizen of Vermont.
And um
[27:47] you know, they're uh they're not
competing with the private sector
[27:53] because nobody's building starter homes
because there's no money in it. And uh
[27:58] with the way the school taxes are uh uh
addition to the grand list anywhere is a
[28:05] little bit of a addition to the grand
list everywhere.
[28:09] Um and uh it it sounds to me like in the
short term uh there's some uh things to
[28:17] be ironed out, but in the long term I I
expect that um um you know
[28:26] you you can look at a municipality as a
notfor-profit uh corporate citizen of
[28:31] the state and uh uh and I I think uh we
all want the same things.
[28:37] » Thank you. Marie Bent.
>> Uh good evening. Thank you. Um I just
[28:44] wanted to
uh let the voters know and and everyone
[28:49] know that many of the uh entities that
Miss Stevens is talking about that being
[28:56] not that have all the exemptions, many
of them are statuto statutory
[29:02] exemptions. They are statutory in place.
So it means they're automatically exempt
[29:08] from the voter roles and Habitat is not
is not one of gets statutory. The
[29:15] hospital statutory, your churches are
many of the uh Rutland West and
[29:21] everything. They get a different type of
exemption, but it's all built into the
[29:25] statute. Habitat has acknowledged in
front of the legislature that they are
[29:29] not entitled to an exemption that they
have to go community by community to
[29:34] seek it. When denied the initial
exemption, Miss Stevens was given in
[29:40] hand literature for from the Secretary
of State's office. This is back when
[29:47] this first happened on how to go for a
vote a vote in March
[29:52] that was given to her at the July 14th
meeting while I sat right next to her. I
[30:00] alerted them at that time that this was
a probably invalid ballot item. We've
[30:08] had over a month and a half to cure that
ballot item and it was chosen not to do
[30:12] that. And it's not just me. My
understanding is the city of Rutland
[30:17] attorney has also told them that the
week prior to my sitting there. So this
[30:21] is not news that the 2627 ballot item is
invalid for purposes of getting on the
[30:27] vote. So it is I do find it somewhat
offensive as well to be characterized as
[30:36] the town has given them the runaround
when it's been known and it's been going
[30:42] lock step in both the city and the town
that these ballot items are incorrect.
[30:49] So if it's for the March ballot, which
was the discussion in the beginning when
[30:55] it is the townwide VA ballot and no
additional expense to taxpayers to have
[31:01] a separate ballot prepared. So I just
wanted those clarifications that the
[31:05] town knows that they have to go through
these because there's no statutory
[31:10] exemption for them.
>> Okay. Thank you, Marie.
[31:13] » Thank you.
>> All right. So the select board, let me
[31:18] just say one thing very briefly because
we really do need to
[31:26] » RL city situation and Rland town
situation are completely different.
[31:33] We are in discussion with Rland City
regarding vacant land and where we build
[31:37] has nothing to do with ownership of a
building or being operated for Habitat
[31:41] for Humanity. and we've always contested
the part that we are statutoily allowed
[31:47] under 3840. So that's what we've always
been arguing and so there is definitely
[31:53] a disagreeing one.
>> Okay. Um the matter before the select
[31:59] board is and is Matt's motion to reject
the petition that was filed and not to
[32:06] put it on the November ballot. This is
not this is a straight the petition as
[32:12] it was filed and that includes the
language about this current tax year.
[32:17] Are you ready for that question?
[32:21] All in favor of Matt's motion to deny,
please say I.
[32:27] » I I I will vote I as well. So, um the
petition is denied to be put on the
[32:34] ballot as it is written. Is there any
other motion that the select word wishes
[32:40] to make on this matter?
[32:49] Any other motion?
[32:57] Okay, no other motion. So that concludes
our deliberation of this. Thank you for
[33:02] coming in.
[33:07] Okay.
Um, what have we got?
[33:13] Devon Ner.
>> Oh, I'm off.
[33:17] » We're We're going in as best we can in
order. We're leaving our department
[33:21] heads.
>> Um, so
[33:24] » I'll try to make it quick.
>> Next will be credit union. Okay. So,
[33:32] » hey, good to see how Joe's not here.
Thought it would be a full board, but
[33:35] we'll make do.
>> Thanks for having me back. So, I'm here
[33:39] to talk about a few different things.
Um, first and foremost, uh, capital
[33:45] improvement planning. Uh so I I hold a
early town managers and administrators
[33:51] lunchon at the RPC and we discuss a
various number of topics that are
[33:56] relevant to grant opportunities or new
legislation.
[34:01] Municipal planning grants were just
announced for this upcoming fiscal year.
[34:05] They the application opens in October
and is not due until December. So we're
[34:10] trying to get after this early. And one
thing that we're really promoting this
[34:14] year above previous years is capital
planning. You know, with so many
[34:19] municipal budgets really shoestringed by
the education fund, we think it's really
[34:25] important that taking more ownership of
that budget through future forecasting
[34:31] through a capital plan really benefit
towns of all sizes, but especially a
[34:36] town like Rutland Town that is sort of
that midsize where you have quite a few
[34:42] growing facilities and assets on your um
sort of municipal asset. inventory. Now,
[34:49] whether it's roads, a new dump truck, a
new fire station, planning for those
[34:56] future expenditures is really
challenging. So what a capital
[34:59] improvement plan can do is set up a
formalized structure in which you
[35:04] provide inputs into a formula and that
formula will help you depreciate assets,
[35:12] identify funding sources and be able to
look out that five or 10 years on a
[35:17] longer horizon and try to spread the
costs out so the taxpayers don't feel
[35:23] that really abrupt burden of a new
unplanned capital expenditure.
[35:28] We've seen a lot of success with capital
planning in other communities in the
[35:33] region, most notably Rutland City
adopted their first ever capital
[35:37] improvement plan last year. And they're
utilizing, similar to you guys, um their
[35:42] their primary funding source for their
CIP is their 1% option tax. Now, I know
[35:48] yours goes towards buying down the grand
list, but also some capital projects as
[35:54] well. Is that correct?
Um
[35:57] » yeah,
>> sometimes we have tapped it. But but let
[36:00] me ask you this.
>> Actually,
[36:02] » we have depreciation funds and we have
each department has done a five-year
[36:08] plan.
>> Yep.
[36:10] » Why aren't the depreciation funds and
the five-year plans sufficient? Why do
[36:15] we need a capital plan?
>> Yeah. So this can be a little bit more
[36:20] comprehensive than that and also use
escalation factors and other sort of
[36:25] like formulaic elements that can be a
bit more accurate and dynamic than a
[36:30] simple depreciation plan. That's great
that you have that. That is more than
[36:35] most do. So that's awesome because it
shows a level of accountability and
[36:39] proactivity that is as you know super
important when setting the municipal
[36:43] budget. So, um,
how I like to think about it is instead
[36:48] of right now having
sort of discrete,
[36:53] um, depreciation funds that are sort of
departmentalized and then collated into
[36:58] one sort of organizing budgetary sort of
item. This can do that a little bit more
[37:05] comprehensively. Um, and also as the
town continues to grow, which has shown
[37:11] a pretty strong growth pattern overall,
both in population and in your municipal
[37:16] assets, it can adjust with that um
growth over time. So, it's it doesn't
[37:24] have to be for everybody. You know, I
wanted to make the pitch cuz, you know,
[37:26] it seemed like you would be a good fit
and also it definitely piqued uh Bill's
[37:32] interest a little bit. So, he thought
it'd be a good for me to come here and
[37:36] sort of relay it to you all. Um,
>> can we use the funds
[37:42] to study whether we should have a
capital plan as opposed to what we have
[37:47] now, the depreciation accounts and one
um spillover capital fund.
[37:53] » You know, I think there would be no
doubt that typically how this goes is,
[37:58] you know, you're awarded the funds. This
is a 10% match program. So the max is 30
[38:05] 35,000. So you'd be looking at $3,000
about usually when a consultant is
[38:11] onboarded to design a capital plan.
That's exactly what they would do. First
[38:16] step would be what are you currently
doing? Assess whether that really just
[38:19] need to be a little bit bolstered and
it's good or whether it really needs to
[38:23] be overhauled into something more
proprietary or formalized by the
[38:28] consultant. But the idea is once you set
up it can be completely managed by the
[38:33] municipality moving forward. You
wouldn't need to rely on consulting
[38:37] moving forward to update that capital
improvement plan. The other benefit fit
[38:42] that I've seen and it's here's a planner
being a planner but sometimes the
[38:47] development of the thing is just as
important as the thing. So in this case,
[38:52] if the entire select board and the
planning commission, the town
[38:55] administrator are all part of the
development, you have a much stronger
[38:59] understanding of that whole process and
your future liabilities than you would
[39:05] if you're just handed a simple
depreciation report annually. So, you
[39:10] know, that's that's what I would say to
any planning effort. So, there's a
[39:15] little disclaimer there, but I do think
that is one of the benefits as well.
[39:20] Um, and
oh, first question. We run into this
[39:25] with the townwide reappraisal. Are we
going to run short of consultants doing
[39:31] these so that we're standing in line for
years to get a
[39:36] » Well, that wouldn't be possible because
the grant terms would not allow it.
[39:39] However, you know, this space there are
a lot of consulting firms operating. You
[39:45] know, they might not all be Vermont
based and maybe that's a good thing. You
[39:48] know, I know Rutland City, I think,
worked with a firm in Rochester, New
[39:52] York. Um, but as of right now, no, I
don't think the pinch is quite as
[39:56] extreme as a full statewide reappraisal.
Yeah. And I'm happy to share some
[40:01] examples if you guys feel like there's a
little bit more context you need. Um,
[40:07] » you know, and I for for me, I am just
trying to spread this word as as many
[40:12] towns in this sort of tier that you guys
occupy as possible. Um because I do
[40:18] think more and more towns are trying to
engage in this type of financial
[40:22] planning
>> and if we did it timing for is it for
[40:28] next year's budget that begins July 1st
and is approved by the voters on in
[40:33] March or
>> in terms of your cash match?
[40:37] » Yeah, that and what's the when do we
have to have this done and if we get the
[40:42] grant set up? Yeah. So the awards would
likely happen at the beginning of 27.
[40:48] Okay.
>> So you would need funds available then.
[40:50] It is a reimbursement program. So you
would be, you know, paying the
[40:55] consultant directly and seeking
reimbursement minus the 10%. There's
[40:58] typically a two-year horizon on these
grants. There's always opportunity for
[41:03] an extension. So you know, I know you
have a we're going to start working with
[41:06] you or we just started on a town plan
update. Just finished your subdivision
[41:11] rags. I'm going to throw another thing
at you here in a minute. So, I
[41:14] understand it needs to fit into your
schedule and if this is more of a next
[41:18] year, I'll come back next year, you
know, but um it felt like the
[41:24] conversation and the timing is right
given the context of sort of where the
[41:30] town is at and where the region is at as
a whole.
[41:33] » And would you be working with our
planning commission on this? I mean
[41:37] ideally yes because they have to this
needs to connect to the plan and future
[41:42] planning. Um so yeah I would like to see
this ideally be a joint committee of the
[41:50] whole sort of select board and planning
commission along with Bill and his team
[41:56] um on the ground. So yeah. Okay, those
are my questions folks.
[42:04] Are there select order? So
>> what are the sort of outputs in this
[42:08] plan if consultants are seeing like kind
of like well here's all the stuff you
[42:12] here's your wish list that you said you
wanted to do.
[42:16] So if we do it on this timeline
theoretically
[42:20] payments would look like this with a
whole bunch of assumptions about
[42:24] borrowing interest rates and all that.
codes.
[42:26] » Yeah, I mean to an extent it will be
essentially a a plugandplay spreadsheet
[42:33] at the end. I think the piece that is
super important is those inputs really
[42:38] need need to be dictated by the locality
and be realistic and pragmatic versus
[42:43] like oh you know we want a a Rutland
town tank for some reason. Let's put
[42:48] that on there. You know this is really I
think there will be some grounding by
[42:52] the consultant that way but the output
will be a dynamic
[42:56] formula that allows you guys to add any
items over time and then understand what
[43:03] those costs will be down the road and
get things continue. I know they're
[43:08] currently on a cycle but sort of
enshrine that in the process that they
[43:13] remain. So if that makes sense.
[43:18] questions.
>> I'd like to see see one if there's a
[43:23] town.
>> Yeah, I'll send one to Bill to share
[43:24] around.
>> Be good. Yeah.
[43:26] » Um would we go through the same process
as adopting the town plan that we would
[43:31] to adopt?
>> Yeah. So, there's basically like two
[43:36] types of CIPs in Vermont. there is a
sort of charterbased formalized CIP or
[43:43] there's like a CIP like that doesn't get
to that level of adoption.
[43:48] Ideally, if you're tying it to some
structured financing source or funding
[43:53] source like a 1% option, you might take
that next step. But again, I think this
[43:58] is part of that process of like what is
the right fit for Rutland Town right
[44:02] now, you know?
>> So, yeah, you guys can mold it over.
[44:07] I'll send you some stuff. Think about
it.
[44:09] » Yeah.
>> Either way, you know, no no preference
[44:12] on my spot. Obviously,
>> we start the application what October
[44:17] and it's due in
>> December. I'm looking at Bill because
[44:21] guess who's going to
>> have a team. That's that's news to me.
[44:27] » Yeah. Well,
>> and we you know, we help all the towns
[44:31] write these, so that's not a not a big
deal either. So, two other quick things.
[44:36] I know you have a pretty packed agenda
here.
[44:39] Um, I got to talk about the Z-Word.
Kurt, plug your ears.
[44:44] » Um, so, you know, we have thankfully
adopted the 2026 Rutland Regional Plan.
[44:51] So, that was a huge feat. It has been
>> a lot of workfully done.
[44:56] » Thank you. It has been approved now by
both state bodies. So, it is fully in
[45:00] effect. That means we have seven
communities right now in the region that
[45:05] are um uh have tier 1B status which is
they have an exemption from act 250 of
[45:13] 50 units or less on 10 acres or less and
that can be mixed use if it's
[45:17] predominantly housing. So that's across
the region. We're excited to see how
[45:21] that plays out. We know developers have
been waiting for this opportunity. So
[45:26] that is exciting. Now, when I came to
you all in I think it was 2024,
[45:32] right after act 21 was just enacted into
law, you know, we knew nothing. You
[45:39] know, I really was trying to get in
front of as many towns as I could to
[45:42] say, "Hey, if you're missing this thing,
consider doing it now cuz it's going to
[45:46] be a pinch." And it was. We had several
towns adopt subdivision rags a few
[45:51] months before we adopted the plan.
What we've learned over time is that
[45:56] what was quite a narrow opportunity for
Rutland Town at the time based around
[46:03] one small historic village center in
center Rutland now looks like the
[46:09] opportunity could likely be expanded to
add on and this is would be some
[46:16] precedent but it's really interesting
and curious opportunity add on to the
[46:21] plan growth area where utility ilities
connect directly to Rutland City because
[46:24] Rutland City right now, the entirety of
Rutland City essentially minus Pinehill
[46:29] Park and a few pockets is all eligible
for act 27 act 250 exemption if and when
[46:36] they get their tier 1A exemption which
is likely they just had their first
[46:39] hearing. So what
I would like to relay to you all is if
[46:46] this is of interest
really trying to go all in on further
[46:53] development specifically housing
this is one pathway forward that if we
[47:00] investigate what zoning could unlock for
you and again I'd love to have some
[47:05] conversations with you all about what
zoning is or isn't right and about It's
[47:10] more about protections than penalties,
right, for land owners and their
[47:16] property. But even so, you know, the
state's sort of zoning prowess these
[47:22] days is less is more, right? And promote
development and growth and don't
[47:27] prohibit it. That is the one missing
element for you guys. if you wanted to
[47:32] pursue some of these exemptions that
exist now. To do that, it would require
[47:38] us to sort of have that conversation and
dive into it. I think this would be a
[47:43] perfect discussion to follow a town plan
update. So many times when I talk to
[47:48] towns, they're writing the zoning and
then the planning. The planning should
[47:51] always come first, right? To enact the
plan, you need the regulatory tool,
[47:55] which is zoning. So, let's do this town
plan. We're gonna help you through that.
[48:01] Barbara's got a good plan. I think Sean
and Will are helping her on that that
[48:06] town plan update.
>> Yeah, I I I think
[48:11] Will is going. Yeah. Yeah. Um do
>> But does he have a lot on his plate
[48:17] because we can't seem to schedule
meetings with him and the planning
[48:20] commission. So, yeah, they're trying to
um complete a couple town plans that are
[48:27] at the very end of the process with
hopes of kicking yours off in
[48:31] Octoberish,
>> okay?
[48:33] » November at the at the latest. Um, but
we have a plan to jump into it and get
[48:39] it done well before your expiration
date.
[48:43] » Um,
>> and can I mean I think there's a few
[48:47] other things. We're close on the
subdivision bylaws. Can we get the
[48:51] commission's help on making sure, you
know, putting that in place and whatever
[48:57] we need to do there
>> for the adoption?
[48:59] » Um, I think the adoption is pretty much
underway, but
[49:02] » yeah, we're just waiting up the sign at
this point.
[49:05] » Okay.
>> Yeah. So, if you you're through
[49:06] adoption, you're
>> Yeah, we're done.
[49:08] » You're done. Okay.
>> Yeah. All right.
[49:10] » Yeah.
>> And you've got all the forms you need.
[49:13] » All right.
>> Yeah. Bill, you can always just reach
[49:15] out if there are questions, but I think
Bill's pretty much an expert by this
[49:20] point. Now,
>> the only one thing only left to touch
[49:23] what's on the night is the fees on it.
That's it.
[49:27] » Yeah. Okay.
>> So, I I was here one to just relay that
[49:31] message that there are
>> greater opportunities than what were
[49:35] first understood. Can
>> you give us an example of like where and
[49:40] what?
>> Yeah. So right now, wherever you connect
[49:43] to utilities in Rutland City, so
primarily Route 7 north, Route 7 South,
[49:48] um
>> you say we connect, you know,
[49:50] theoretically could connect like if new
development
[49:54] » well in some cases you you're already
connected
[49:56] » already some places.
>> Yeah.
[49:58] » But does it include
>> places that could connect? So that is
[50:04] sort of out there in the planning sphere
right now about if it's in your town
[50:10] plan and you have some plans to expand
sewer and water then that is a
[50:15] potentially legitimate thing to do. In
your case if it's more of hey the main
[50:21] goes through North Main Street and
there's a development in the back 40
[50:25] that's pretty automatic because that is
an easy connection. That's a tea off.
[50:29] It's not like an entirely new water
mane. So, there is a difference between
[50:34] those two. You know, I can share with
you and you guys can go on our website
[50:40] to see how much of Rutland City has been
designated as planned growth area and
[50:46] you can just imagine sort of teeing off
of that on the ends that are most
[50:51] developed. So, you know, I think to your
point, Matt, I think um for Rutland
[50:58] Town, like Rutland City is almost
entirely infill development potential.
[51:02] You know, it's completely built out. You
guys kind of have both. You have a lot
[51:06] of infill potential with sort of like
older underutilized parcels, but also
[51:11] some expansion as well, especially along
those sort of north south corridors. So
[51:19] just need to I need to insert this brain
worm now and then we can return back to
[51:24] it later.
>> Well, and
[51:28] the commission will be looking again at
it as they're doing the plan.
[51:33] » Exactly. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And ideally, you know, how we love
[51:36] to see these things go is, you know,
there's a robust public engagement
[51:40] process during the town plan
>> and this could be included potentially
[51:45] as a recommendation or action item in
the town plan and then that that folds
[51:50] right into a zoning development process.
Um, you know, and developing that
[51:56] zoning, we can get you guys grants. We
can assist with that. You know, that's
[52:00] not not an issue.
Yeah.
[52:04] » Yeah. Last and final thing, Chip. So,
Joe's not here at the time. He really
[52:09] wanted me to come back and talk a little
bit about CHIP. I'm happy to return
[52:12] again, but I'll just share with you, you
know, the community housing investment
[52:17] program is 200 million a year over the
next 10 years. So, the clock has
[52:22] started. We're already over a year into
this. So, there are a few projects that
[52:28] sound like they're percolating in town.
The biggest aspect to just keep in your
[52:35] minds and know moving forward is this is
intended to
[52:41] use a tax increment to pay down a bond
on a public utility or infrastructure
[52:47] project that directly supports the
development. And we we use a but for
[52:52] test. The development wouldn't happen
but for this public investment. So, how
[52:57] this works is you get a public
investment upgrade essentially at no
[53:01] cost because the increment of the
development's taxes will pay down that
[53:06] bond over that bond life lifespan. So,
if it's about bringing utilities, what
[53:12] we're trying to do is get towns to
really be bold and think outside the
[53:16] box. If you guys are already
considering, hey, we want to extend
[53:20] water to homes on McKinley or further
down on um Post Road. Is this an
[53:28] opportunity through de supporting this
development where you can get something
[53:32] out of expanding utilities at
essentially no cost? So, that is
[53:36] something to sort of like consider. I
know you guys have your list here and
[53:42] you know water fire districts are a
constant conversation. So that I think
[53:49] is important to note and also
you know whether these uh specific
[53:56] development projects I met with one of
them last Friday
[54:01] um it will really be about whether there
is a municipal need or not and whether
[54:05] you guys are willing to meet that need
through this program. Only one
[54:10] application's been submitted in the
state. It's been in Mbury and it's a
[54:13] middle middbury college town of Mbury
private public partnership for like
[54:18] 2,000 units or something crazy. Um, so
we still have a lot to learn, but we're
[54:24] happy to learn those lessons for you and
relay them as we go. It's a fairly long
[54:29] robust process, but I think in Rutland
Town you have a unique opportunity
[54:34] potentially with a couple development
projects that are sort of coming up now.
[54:41] » So saying we should be hearing about
something. So
[54:45] » I think you already have. It sounds like
they might have already met with
[54:50] Huh.
>> Howard.
[54:51] » Yes.
>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So that's one of
[54:55] one of the
>> Yeah, that's a potential perfect
[54:58] candidate for it.
>> Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. So housing on
[55:02] post road um in a great lot. So um how
we envision this is VLCT sort of
[55:10] developing the primary resources now and
have you know a set of office hours open
[55:15] for towns to you know understand the
process better. There's webinar series
[55:20] that are happening, but we can really be
the technical advisor and assistant as
[55:26] you work through the process.
Have you have not done this yet, but
[55:31] we're willing to sort of go through it
together
[55:34] » as most everybody else.
>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's that's
[55:38] all I've got. Thank you guys for the
time. I appreciate it. It's good to see
[55:41] you all.
>> Thank you.
[55:42] » Yeah. Absolutely.
>> Questions before we let him go.
[55:47] You did use the Z word and you didn't
throw anything at me.
[55:52] » I will. I will later.
>> Hopefully it's a meeting.
[55:57] » Yeah.
[56:01] » Thanks, guys. Good to see you.
[56:07] » Um,
we are down to
[56:15] » the posters.
if you'd like to take one and pass it
[56:20] down.
[56:28] » Ask you all to identify yourselves.
>> Yeah, I can I can start. Um, my name is
[56:32] Andrea Amidan. I'm a project engineer
with wetlands and I'm here on behalf of
[56:38] the Vermont Federal Credit Union. I'll
let Nick go.
[56:41] » Yeah. Hi everyone. I'm Nick Galerani.
I'm the chief operating officer for
[56:45] Vermont Federal Credit Union
representing the credit union tonight.
[56:49] It's
>> customer.
[56:56] » We'll get you another chair.
>> Full disclosure. I hired this ring to do
[57:03] projects down on the farm
now for a couple of years.
[57:09] » I know. Well, I know some of your folks.
>> I figured.
[57:15] So, uh, we're here to discuss the, um,
Vermont Federal Credit Union project,
[57:19] which I hope you all are at least a
little familiar with. Um, I would like
[57:24] Nick to just talk a little bit about
Vermont Federal Credit Union, um, and
[57:28] what they their operation and their
current property in Rutland and all
[57:33] that.
>> Yeah.
[57:34] » Yeah. Thank you for your time this
evening. Uh Vermont Federal has been
[57:37] operating for about over 70 years here
in Vermont, serving Vermonters
[57:42] throughout the state. Uh we currently
have over 60,000 members, about 1.2
[57:47] billion in assets. Here in Rutland
County, we have almost 6,000 members
[57:51] that we're serving today. We have one
branch location uh located at 2 South
[57:56] Main Street in Rutland City. Um that's
through a recent merger with the Credit
[58:01] Union of Vermont. Um, and we're very
excited about the opportunity to expand
[58:05] our presence to make a difference in the
lives of even more people here in
[58:11] Rutland. Uh, and give back to the
community. We are a a organization that
[58:16] believes in Vermont and Vermonters. Uh,
and as such, we are trying to expand our
[58:22] reach and and give back to all of our
Vermont communities that we all love and
[58:26] call home. Is that the building right at
the intersection of Orange and Seven?
[58:32] The stop right there.
>> It is. Yeah. Just past that
[58:35] intersection. The the next inter
intersection there. Yeah. South.
[58:39] » Okay. All right.
>> Yes.
[58:40] » West Street.
>> West Street.
[58:43] » Mhm.
>> Homes for your old people.
[58:45] » Yeah. I was just going to say that old.
[58:52] » So, yes. Um, I'll just go right ahead to
the location of this project. So this is
[58:57] uh halfacre parcel at the corner of
Holiday Drive and Pop John Drive. Um
[59:04] just south of the Aspen Dental for
anybody trying to locate themselves and
[59:09] just east of the old Holiday Inn, now 14
in.
[59:13] » So this halfacre parcel was subdivided
um around 2008 from the Holiday Inn and
[59:19] Aspen Dental. That was all one parcel at
one one point. Um, it was then purchased
[59:25] by the property owner to the south and
previously permitted as the Rutland
[59:29] Commons project
>> and then was sold uh just recently to
[59:34] the Vermont Federal Credit Union. So now
the halfacre car was independently owned
[59:37] by the credit union
>> subject to act 250.
[59:41] » It is subject to act 250.
>> Yeah.
[59:43] » Yes.
>> Um and not because you don't have zoning
[59:46] but because it was the Cortina in has an
existing act 250 permit.
[59:50] » I wanted to clarify with you later.
Um, so I guess I just want to flip back
[59:57] quickly before I walk through the site
circulation. This is a onestory
[1:00:01] building. Um, and just to give you some
perspective of of what the building
[1:00:06] would look like. Um, these are the
architectural elevations. So if you were
[1:00:10] driving down Route 7, you would see this
upper east elevation here on the top
[1:00:16] right uh, left corner, excuse me.
And then as you drove down uh Holiday
[1:00:21] Drive, you would come and see um this
north elevation here. And then as you
[1:00:28] worked your way around and came through
the parking lot of the Cortina end
[1:00:31] behind there, you would come um along
and see the drive-thru lanes here on the
[1:00:36] west elevation. And then as you pulled
in to park on the southern part of the
[1:00:40] parcel, you would come out and see the
south elevation. So, we can go back to
[1:00:45] those if you have any questions. But
just to give you a better plan view of
[1:00:51] the circulation we're talking about,
you've got I'm just going to stand up
[1:00:55] because I'm a pointer. It's the Italian
and me. I can't help it. You've got
[1:00:58] Route 7 here, not pictured. And then the
intersection here, um, and Diamond Mall
[1:01:03] is over here. So, this is the dead end
that is Cop John Drive currently. and
[1:01:10] then Holiday Drive here which is a
privatelyowned drive as you know. So the
[1:01:15] site circulation as proposed would be uh
patrons would come through here if they
[1:01:21] would like to use a teller or ATM only
transaction.
[1:01:26] And then for any patrons who would want
to walk into the facility if they had a
[1:01:29] longer transaction, they come around
Holiday Drive, come south through this
[1:01:34] uh easement that exists already with the
Cortina Inn through this southwest
[1:01:39] entrance um park here and the main
entrance is right here. Um so that's the
[1:01:45] site circulation and then ATM users
would drive through here and and go exit
[1:01:50] out that way um on Holiday Drive.
Um the site currently proposes uh 15
[1:01:56] parking spaces and there is a traffic
study to support that uh usage. Um
[1:02:04] try and make sure I hit all my notes
here. Uh so this two-way I just wanted
[1:02:09] to point out this two-way uh exit
entrance at the at the bottom of the
[1:02:12] site just helps with less conflicts on
the holiday drive entrance drive
[1:02:17] entrance which is why we um opted for
this being a oneway for the ATM usage
[1:02:23] only.
Um
[1:02:26] so the proposed water and sewer I can
briefly talk about that as well.
[1:02:35] Our utility plan and grading plan which
you also received.
[1:02:40] So the water uh service would come out
perpendicularly uh to the root 7 water
[1:02:46] man as it exists. So, as Deon was
talking about, it would just be a a
[1:02:50] simple T connection to the water man.
>> And then the sewer would um is quite a
[1:02:55] ways away from the existing sewer. So,
we would just need to run approximately
[1:03:00] 150 ft north um along across Holiday
Drive um and between the Aspen Dental
[1:03:06] property and the shoulder of Pop John to
a sewer manhole um just after the Aspen
[1:03:12] Dental
>> in the town's right of way or do you
[1:03:16] have any easement?
>> That would be through the town's right
[1:03:19] of way, which is um part of the uh
excavation in the right of way permit
[1:03:24] application that we have also uh
submitted for consideration. that.
[1:03:31] » So, um, as a credit union, you may
imagine there's not very many wastewater
[1:03:36] flows generated by the project. So, um,
it's a pretty low usage. Um, and just
[1:03:42] regarding the useful impact and the
school impact there, there's no uh, you
[1:03:46] know, school age children that are
generated by the project. And Penny
[1:03:50] Union has also stated that they would
like to hire from within the community.
[1:03:53] there will be nobody moving to the
community to um to work here and be
[1:03:57] generated from here. Um to give you a
better idea of just the other pieces of
[1:04:02] the project that we're coordinating um
there's other permits. Active 50 was one
[1:04:07] mentioned. So we've been working with
all of the state regulators um to meet
[1:04:12] all of the different 10 criteria and get
their buy in before we submit the
[1:04:17] application later this uh month. And
then the other state permits that need
[1:04:21] to be obtained would be the beach
permits. Um the water line that crosses
[1:04:26] cop John that's in their right of way. I
think I shared with you Bill that right
[1:04:31] of way uh provides a lot of discussions
about cop John with vrans and and we I
[1:04:37] think I think we got a good
understanding.
[1:04:40] » That's good to clear that up.
For clarification, the the water line
[1:04:44] goes into the VRN right ofway, but the
sewer alignment is uh within the town
[1:04:48] right ofway.
So, we're working with VR on on that
[1:04:52] piece of it. And um they've also had
some questions about the site
[1:04:55] circulation, which uh we're discussing
as well. So, that would be I mean, I
[1:05:01] would start with that, the site
circulation and stacking, but any
[1:05:05] stacking,
you've got three lanes coming in,
[1:05:09] assuming they're all open, which is not
always the case.
[1:05:13] But backup would be on a private roadway
holiday and drive first.
[1:05:19] » Yes.
>> Right. How do you know you have enough
[1:05:23] stacking capability the way this is
designed?
[1:05:27] » There was a traffic study done by
Methods Consulting um that estimated the
[1:05:31] uh generation by this credit union of
how much traffic it's going to bring
[1:05:35] one-way trips, bypass trips um based on
a credit union that's already existing
[1:05:39] in Mbury. and they determined a 60 foot
uh Q length was adequate um based on
[1:05:46] three lanes being open. And then we've
also um written down in our active 50
[1:05:50] application as they also mentioned
traffic um that any uh date tellers that
[1:05:56] there was a an issue with queuing when
the portion in is is fully operational
[1:06:01] or big event lets out and there's cross
traffic coming in to prevent any traffic
[1:06:05] from backflowing on Holiday Drive. They
would just ask folks to come through and
[1:06:09] park in the the main parking lot.
[1:06:16] any chance of backup on to Copron Drive?
>> That has not been modeled or
[1:06:22] anticipated.
[1:06:26] » Um
there is another banking facility in
[1:06:32] this complex a little further down on
the other side of not on Cop John Drive
[1:06:38] but know which community Oh, the
community bank. Yes, community bank. Um
[1:06:45] I I shop at Hannah for a lot,
but I've noticed that cars coming
[1:06:53] off
uh Route 7 and into that don't always
[1:06:57] stop. And there's real issues sometimes
with people trying to get into that
[1:07:02] bank.
>> Nothing to do with you, but people
[1:07:05] aren't always very attentive as they're
coming off seven and into a bank. So,
[1:07:12] » I guess I would be really careful about
designing signage and all of that stuff
[1:07:18] because
>> you're going to have you've got some
[1:07:21] conflicting.
[1:07:27] » Sure.
>> Understood.
[1:07:30] Uh I can keep working through the
permits that we are we are working
[1:07:34] through if you'd like. Uh so operational
storm water is also one um that we are
[1:07:39] obtaining a permit for um for the
treatment of imperous surface runoff. Um
[1:07:44] so there'll be a um underground
detention system that detains storm
[1:07:48] water and and releases it um to the uh
existing discharge point as the
[1:07:54] » uh it'd be down here to the southern
property.
[1:07:58] So um storm water generally as it ex the
flow is existing these purple lines are
[1:08:03] the existing contours. So the site
naturally slopes this way as it is. Um
[1:08:08] we're essentially maintaining that
drainage pattern. Um putting the
[1:08:12] building right here. We have some
drainage coming around here. You have a
[1:08:15] drainage network here as well. Um catch
basins collecting the runoff. Um and it
[1:08:19] comes into a uh these proprietary
systems are really helpful for small
[1:08:23] sites and they um they detain the storm
water and treat it um collected into
[1:08:28] this underground detention system. Um
again just to give you a bit more
[1:08:32] context because it was subdivided from
the Cortina and the Aspen property and
[1:08:37] has to meet more um stringent
requirements for storm water than a
[1:08:42] typical lot of this size would be to
normally. Um and then it discharges out
[1:08:47] here to this uh outlet control structure
and then discharges down here to the
[1:08:51] southern parcel. Uh and there's a class
two wetland down here. Um this is a
[1:08:57] buffer zone here. You can't see the the
wetland on this page, but there is a
[1:09:02] class 2 wetland.
>> All part of your property.
[1:09:04] » Uh no, this uh this is right here is the
property line.
[1:09:09] » Okay.
>> There's ement
[1:09:11] » there is an ement in placement in place.
>> Yes. the the property was recently just
[1:09:14] purchased and there was easements put in
place for um construction access,
[1:09:19] temporary construction access and
maintenance up this drainage line.
[1:09:23] » There's a cover that comes under Route 7
from in front of the car wash from their
[1:09:28] storm water detention pond comes under
Route 7 and daylights
[1:09:31] » right there
>> over this area
[1:09:33] » just out the end of Cop Chandra.
>> Okay,
[1:09:40] » that's storm water and drainage. Um the
last permit um the the intention is to
[1:09:48] um hopefully avoid going into the
wetland if needed, but we've just
[1:09:52] secured that easement if it is needed.
The grading is a bit of a challenge on
[1:09:56] the site. So just trying to make sure we
have enough elevation in order to drain
[1:10:01] the site effectively. So if we have to
lower the drainage system in order to
[1:10:06] effect effectively capture the runoff,
the uh drainage pipe outlet would need
[1:10:11] to go into the wetland buffer which
would require a state wetland permit. Um
[1:10:17] so that that would be one we might be
seeking as well.
[1:10:21] » Dave, where does our the cup John drive
drainage boy? Say that fast three times.
[1:10:28] » Where does that go now?
>> Any place?
[1:10:31] » Okay. Some of it's actually shown right
here. Um like you have a catch basin up
[1:10:37] here. There's a drain pipe running
through here that discharges into the
[1:10:40] wetland to the south.
[1:10:51] » Well, I shouldn't have all the fun. What
the questions do?
[1:10:57] I'm enjoying her. She knows what
>> she planned ahead.
[1:11:04] » She knows we ask a question.
[1:11:09] » So, the real reason we're here tonight
is not just to see your lovely basis,
[1:11:13] but also to get the waste water and and
sewer allocations. So, um you know, as
[1:11:18] as filing an active clean permit, um
this town is a a statutory party as part
[1:11:23] of that process. So when we submit the
full application, we would um be able to
[1:11:27] review all of the exciting exhibits um
to uh to inform yourselves even more. Um
[1:11:34] those are not
>> exciting reading.
[1:11:37] » Just a late night reading just to just
to help.
[1:11:41] » Yeah.
>> Um so tonight what we're just trying to
[1:11:43] obtain is just the board's approval of
the water and sewer allocation uh to
[1:11:48] improve the sewer connection capacity.
Um and then as well get your sign off on
[1:11:53] the municipal impact questionnaire
which is just your authorization to
[1:11:58] different. Okay. Just want to make sure.
>> Let me start with the water connection
[1:12:02] and the sewer allocation request
>> and and just on the municipal impact
[1:12:07] questionnaire our usual practices we
circulate to our department heads.
[1:12:11] » Okay.
>> So they have a chance to comment should
[1:12:13] there be anything. So okay that you're
probably not going to get tonight
[1:12:18] because we need to circulate that. But
let's build on the water connection
[1:12:22] request and the sewer.
>> Absolutely. No problem.
[1:12:25] » Okay.
>> We're we're all
[1:12:28] » Okay.
So, is there any motion concern those
[1:12:32] two?
[1:12:35] » Second.
>> Matt's move to approve both seconded.
[1:12:39] Any discussion or questions?
>> If not, all in favor please say I.
[1:12:45] Right.
>> She carries five
[1:12:51] or sorry,
[1:12:57] » we're not even close to the end.
[1:13:02] » All right.
>> So, where are you guys in the permit
[1:13:05] process and how soon would you like the
impact questionnaire back?
[1:13:10] » I'm just saying we're anticipating to
file acting 50 by the end of the month.
[1:13:14] So, Sometime in the next couple weeks
we'll be at the flood.
[1:13:18] » Yeah.
>> Can we circulate this among
[1:13:23] pretty easy project?
>> Yeah,
[1:13:28] » it'd be good to get it signed off.
>> Yeah, this one's not a big deal. It's
[1:13:32] not a Walmart.
[1:13:40] So that would be our plan to get this
out and get some response to on impact
[1:13:47] question. Um
[1:13:51] any questions that come to mind
on the
[1:14:01] right now
[1:14:05] police
[1:14:12] » question
[1:14:17] that's stuff
that the question about traffic curious.
[1:14:24] » Yeah,
[1:14:32] there's a picture to look at.
[1:14:39] So, the other permit that we uh sent in
uh maybe a little preemptively was just
[1:14:44] the the excavation and the right ofway
permit for the utility connections. Um
[1:14:49] is that something you would also
want to approve tonight or or hold off
[1:14:53] until closer to construction?
>> They don't.
[1:14:56] » That's you.
>> Even I do.
[1:14:58] » That's you. Never mind. Never mind.
>> Those guys are tough.
[1:15:02] » Noted.
>> It just you asked.
[1:15:08] Where is plow storage? Where is snow
storage there?
[1:15:14] » Uh, great question. I
[1:15:18] we we can definitely make a spot for it
on the plan.
[1:15:21] » Oh, yeah.
>> Um, for sure.
[1:15:23] » I don't know. I would
[1:15:28] » the plow guy like I'm on test right now.
Um,
[1:15:32] I I mean this is a retaining wall here.
So, um, keep that in mind. So, you know,
[1:15:38] normally, uh, I probably would probably
come in through the western entrance,
[1:15:42] um, plow that way. Um, and I would say
either this corner over here, the
[1:15:47] souththeast corner towards, um, towards
Cop John. Um, or maybe they could plow
[1:15:53] storage here um, in this corner uh,
where the retaining wall ends. Kurt,
[1:15:59] how' I do?
>> Yeah, that's about right.
[1:16:01] » Okay.
>> I'll let you know when I get the plow
[1:16:03] contract.
I got other counts on south end of town.
[1:16:08] » We didn't hear any.
[1:16:17] What else that we might want to ask
about? I mean, you can always
[1:16:22] ring you up, ask you questions.
>> Absolutely.
[1:16:28] Um what's the max uh maximum or the
number of cars going through here
[1:16:35] anticipated at any given time, you know,
peak peak time?
[1:16:39] » Yeah, the peak um I I believe off the
top of my head is 224 daily users.
[1:16:44] » Okay.
>> Um that could be one-way trips, people
[1:16:48] who are in like specifically going to
the credit union. Yeah. um any I think
[1:16:52] bypass trips it's increasing to I want
to say the 300s but I don't know how
[1:16:57] much
>> okay and there's a signal there
[1:17:02] » yes
[1:17:06] » does that need to be rettimed
or is that okay
[1:17:11] » we have not gotten any of that feedback
from um indicating that that would be
[1:17:16] their decision that was needed u I don't
believe that's anticipated by the
[1:17:21] traffic study.
>> Yeah, there's a lot of um people who
[1:17:26] scoot that way
>> um to avoid going through the
[1:17:31] intersection up here or
>> you know sometimes they come in this way
[1:17:35] and go up.
>> I wouldn't know myself, but
[1:17:41] people do come down top.
>> It could be easier to make a right turn
[1:17:45] to go south. Yes. It's also improved
things since they um instituted the
[1:17:50] blinking lights and not just had red or
green down there.
[1:17:54] » That's helped a lot.
>> Yeah,
[1:17:56] » they have instituted like a yellow
flashing arrow
[1:18:00] » so that when there's no oncoming
traffic, someone's sitting in the queue
[1:18:05] to make the turn.
>> It's still can be a little scary, but
[1:18:10] » guess I'm there too late.
>> It's getting pedals on the right.
[1:18:15] » Yeah. point and shoot.
>> It is 224 total one-way trips. Um 20
[1:18:21] a.m. peak hour trips and 46 PM one-way
trips.
[1:18:25] » Okay.
All right. And did you look at any of
[1:18:29] the internal circulation once people are
in here and then headed off where that's
[1:18:33] not part of is that 250 gonna ask about
that
[1:18:38] » trans won't but
>> in that the internal circulation is all
[1:18:41] standardized um like lane widths and
parking stall widths. Um
[1:18:48] » the traffic study has guided a lot of
the decision making here. Um,
[1:18:54] actually trying to look at everything,
but um I'm thinking of
[1:19:01] cars coming out, picking up the money to
go grocery shopping, then coming out,
[1:19:06] going up Copron Drive to that
intersection now with cars coming
[1:19:11] immediately off Route 7. So that all
gets taken into account by the traffic
[1:19:15] study. They're looking at intersections
to the north and south and kind of the
[1:19:19] larger area and not only this property.
Um, so will be reviewing all of that as
[1:19:25] part of the application.
>> That's right. Because that's their
[1:19:29] own thing. They own that inter
[1:19:35] » um it's a VR right away that they have
essentially turned over
[1:19:42] approval of projects to us to manage.
>> Oh, thank you very much.
[1:19:48] » Yeah. Right. So like the excavation
rightway if if they wanted to have the
[1:19:53] access from their driveway onto that
subend John drive that's up it's it's
[1:19:58] state rightaway. It's our road. It's
[1:20:04] » I asked because I mean there are also
cars coming in here to go to Taco Bell.
[1:20:10] » Nope. Not here.
>> Not Holiday Drive. They go but they come
[1:20:14] down. They go
>> intersection. This We'll make that
[1:20:18] intersection here.
[1:20:24] I think the um
the east west holiday drive is is has
[1:20:32] the rightway because cop drive have a
stop has a stop sign. So cars coming
[1:20:36] from the plaza direction have to stop
and they they they have to wait for any
[1:20:40] cars are coming there. So any of the
stacking is going to go around those the
[1:20:43] cars leaving either the Aspental Plaza,
the the
[1:20:48] » hotel or this, they're going to have the
right away versus the traffic coming
[1:20:53] south of Cop John Drive.
>> Yeah,
[1:20:56] that's the theory. Yes.
>> And I'm I'm a I'm a former credit union
[1:21:02] of Vermont refugee
[1:21:07] » and I've been in that credit union for
15, 16, 17, 18 years. And I understand
[1:21:15] this is probably going to create more
traffic than that place does, but
[1:21:20] there's really not there's
they have no parking. They have no
[1:21:26] drive-thru. They have nothing
>> where they are now.
[1:21:28] » Where they are now. And there's not cars
sitting in the middle of Terrell Street
[1:21:31] or on North Main Street trying to get
into the place.
[1:21:34] » It's true.
>> Is this a second branch or a replacement
[1:21:38] branch?
>> Second branch.
[1:21:40] » Yes, we're keeping the other location.
[1:21:45] » All right. Any other
[1:21:50] discussion or questions that the select
board has
[1:21:54] » in the bill
>> get the
[1:22:01] clarify right now.
>> Thank you so much.
[1:22:04] » You all
[1:22:11] you'll do the circulating on the
>> thing. Y and you'll talk to the I hear
[1:22:16] about
>> he's he just he just signed off he's
[1:22:19] already
read the thing first the last one
[1:22:26] » the same
[1:22:33] » thanks for coming along for having us
>> thanks for knowing what you talking
[1:22:38] about
>> we appreciate that too they're great
[1:22:42] partner
[1:22:45] water bottle.
>> You have a water bottle. Okay,
[1:22:48] » I do. Yes. Thank you.
>> Appreciate it.
[1:22:50] » Um, is there anything else?
[1:22:56] » We're just starting our meeting now.
>> I did talk to
[1:23:02] that later.
>> Okay.
[1:23:06] So, I guess we just go to We don't have
any other guest visitors. We just had
[1:23:12] department heads just and they're very
important to the department.
[1:23:16] » Um
[1:23:19] » we could
try to skip unless there is an
[1:23:25] um well
town police chief and we do have e on
[1:23:30] that
[1:23:34] » police did
[1:23:43] So I left
[1:23:47] sheet on your desk
[1:23:55] on them with numbers. So I held them
so I can get on.
[1:24:03] » But look at this. We had 194 calls added
last month.
[1:24:10] Uh 33 of those were traffic stops which
was our highest
[1:24:14] all added followed by suspicious
director patrols fingerprints. We're
[1:24:19] still getting a lot of school
fingerprints and then agency assist. Uh
[1:24:24] Rutland Town
was 114 and we classify Rutland Town as
[1:24:30] anything other than the south end.
>> Okay. So, and then 62 were Rutland Town
[1:24:34] South. And then eight were no value
because I don't know what happened, but
[1:24:38] last month dispatch kept entering calls
into the wrong zone for us. So, they
[1:24:44] would try to send us to Wells and
Killington and things like that, and we
[1:24:47] said, "No, thank you."
>> Yeah. It's not just a police thing.
[1:24:51] » No.
Um,
[1:24:56] list of the types of calls in the areas
attached to this
[1:25:10] As far as arrestable offenses,
uh, retail theft for misdemeanor was our
[1:25:15] top one with five. And then there were
violation of conditions of release, uh,
[1:25:20] possession, sale, stolen property,
operation from the owner's consent,
[1:25:25] which is Vermont's version of grand
lararseny or grand theft auto. uh false
[1:25:30] information to a police officer, arrest
on warrant, trespassing, and then
[1:25:34] aggravated disorderly conduct
[1:25:43] » road. Should we do that in a different
meeting?
[1:25:46] » Uh it's a it's not to to the residents
who live there. It's we have a house on
[1:25:51] Glacian Road that's a problem. Uh we're
trying to work with residents on
[1:25:56] fixing that problem.
very much a portal road style house
[1:26:05] as a home.
>> That's what we're currently trying to
[1:26:08] work on that.
[1:26:18] » So what I mean I guess I'm used to that
other little is this a bump up in south
[1:26:24] end activity? I think there were two or
I think this was about four or five more
[1:26:28] calls in the south end compared to last
month.
[1:26:30] » Okay.
>> Um but we had more calls overall than
[1:26:34] last month.
[1:26:37] » Um there's no encampments on this
particular property that the credit
[1:26:42] union's looking at to build.
>> Not there. It's too open.
[1:26:46] » It's too open of a lot. It
>> is very cold.
[1:26:49] » It wasn't until we fixed the cover last
year.
[1:26:53] You're talking more on the southern end
of in the tall grass.
[1:26:56] » Oh, okay.
>> Yep.
[1:27:03] » Okay.
Questions before we move on to
[1:27:09] » I have other than item E. I only have
two things.
[1:27:12] » Okay.
>> If we're done with stats though.
[1:27:14] » Yeah. Unless somebody else has a
question about the numbers.
[1:27:21] » No, go ahead. Sorry.
>> The death investigation. I felt that was
[1:27:24] right.
>> Yeah.
[1:27:26] » Yeah. That started as something and then
turned into that.
[1:27:29] » Okay.
>> But that was from what the residents on
[1:27:32] Cordeline were talking about, I believe.
>> Okay.
[1:27:40] What's next?
>> Uh good news. Uh the applicant accepted
[1:27:45] our final offer and good.
>> They will be starting September 21st.
[1:27:50] » Great. So
>> very good.
[1:27:52] » Yeah. So that is very good news.
>> And that is the patrol position that's
[1:27:58] been vacant since Ed went out.
>> Y
[1:28:01] » still looking for an SRO.
>> Okay. And you're covering the school now
[1:28:05] as
>> Yes.
[1:28:07] » We're not going to get into when you go
up there, but you're up there.
[1:28:10] » Yeah.
>> Okay.
[1:28:11] » Um
[1:28:14] » maybe
>> uh got a call from Justin Belden today.
[1:28:19] Uh I went up there.
>> Uh a large portion of the fence was torn
[1:28:23] down over the weekend and
uh go on the south side of the building
[1:28:30] closer to Spartan.
Somebody tied a chain around doors they
[1:28:35] welded and ripped the doors off the
building.
[1:28:37] » Oh.
>> And left the doors in the middle of the
[1:28:39] parking lot.
>> So Beldin's crew was actually up there
[1:28:42] when I went up and they were working on
how they're going to secure that. That's
[1:28:47] they're that's the part they want to
keep.
[1:28:50] » Yeah, that's on the old Kmart backside
of the old Kmart.
[1:28:54] » Any things missing from the entrance?
>> I have no idea.
[1:28:59] » All we know is
took the thing out.
[1:29:04] » They So, they ripped out the doors from
the building. They also ripped out one
[1:29:07] of the lamp post columns
>> because that's laying next to the doors
[1:29:11] in the middle of the parking lot.
[1:29:15] There's no cameras up there.
>> There was one. There were two and one
[1:29:19] was as it one was destroyed. Has it been
replaced?
[1:29:25] » Not another one either. Cuz that one was
also destroyed.
[1:29:29] » Both of them are gone.
>> Mhm.
[1:29:31] » Okay. And what's their security folks
doing up around there? Why did we get
[1:29:36] the call?
>> Uh so there Justin was reporting the
[1:29:39] vandalism because that's the criminal
side of everything. Um, as far as the
[1:29:45] trash, other trash that I saw that was
up there,
[1:29:49] that would be on the mall themselves.
>> Um, Spart I'm reaching out to Spartan to
[1:29:54] see what they can provide me because
their building is overlooks that side of
[1:29:57] the building, but I haven't heard back
yet.
[1:30:01] Oh, the uh site visit is Thursday,
>> which uh the mall is very well known of
[1:30:07] because when I was talking to Justin,
they were frantically trying to figure
[1:30:09] out how they're going to get that all
fixed by Thursday.
[1:30:14] » So,
[1:30:22] that is all I have for announcements.
Okay.
[1:30:26] Um so,
[1:30:31] Oh yeah, JP is on. Um, at our last
police committee meeting, JP called to
[1:30:37] our attention that there was a
thing that needed to be fixed due to
[1:30:43] state law um about the
the speed limit in front of the school
[1:30:50] on Post Road, which we have 25.
Um, state law says it's I think this is
[1:30:57] right. I'm sure JP will correct me if
I'm wrong. Um, and we had referred in
[1:31:03] our ordinance to the flashing when
lights are flashing up there. That's
[1:31:08] when there it's 25, but it's actually 25
at all times. So, what you have in front
[1:31:15] of you in your packet E
is a rewrite of that particular section
[1:31:22] of the ordinance so that we conform with
state law. and we've taken out the words
[1:31:28] flashing. So, it doesn't matter whether
the lights are on or not. Um, the speed
[1:31:34] zone up in front of the school is 25
miles an hour and then on either end of
[1:31:38] it um it's 35.
Is that Did I do it right, JP?
[1:31:47] » He's there.
>> He is there. I think I think I
[1:31:51] » turn your radar up, JP.
So um we have you have E which is the
[1:31:59] new proposed ordinance language for that
particular section. And then if you turn
[1:32:06] the page you see page 16 of 19 which is
a section out of our ordinance
[1:32:13] um that has the flashing light language
that we wanted to leave. So it shows you
[1:32:19] the new proposed and the old as it is.
There was the question about the as set
[1:32:24] forth above.
>> Yes.
[1:32:26] » So you do you have mayor on your desk
that you have two versions of the
[1:32:29] ordinance amendment. One includes that
and one does not. So
[1:32:34] » well I'm I interpreted that as set forth
above. If you look at where the yellow
[1:32:40] highlighting is and down where it says
35 post road,
[1:32:46] um there is a reference to the school
zone and I I interpreted that as asset
[1:32:51] forth above refers to that 25 mile
school zone just above. So I didn't see
[1:32:57] any excess garbage, but that's why we
have two lawyers on the board. So I
[1:33:01] didn't disagree on things.
>> I agree. My only question is now I
[1:33:08] finally got the other comments a while
ago
[1:33:13] it's bunch of other stuff this is
talking about. So yeah,
[1:33:17] » is it going to be a hassle if we do
this? I mean,
[1:33:20] » so Ted and I were talking about that
earlier. It's a 60 what if you if you
[1:33:24] for example if you approve the amendment
tonight,
[1:33:26] » it goes in for its adoption process of
like 60 days
[1:33:32] if you want to. The problem is that
becomes November when it takes effect
[1:33:36] which is
>> we might be having other discussions
[1:33:39] during November and October. So might
probably going to take over ordinance
[1:33:42] changes, but we can do them in in two
different two different steps. It's not
[1:33:47] a big deal. It's just
more work to do the warnings, things
[1:33:51] like that. So there are other things
that have to get changed and I talking
[1:33:56] tonight over there even even in the
draft, there's still more things need to
[1:34:00] get changed. So, it would be more
advantageous to do this if you're ready,
[1:34:07] do this tonight
>> and then get into the rest of the
[1:34:10] changes and we can plan those and then
we have a new draft which will already
[1:34:14] incorporate this change but all the
other things will need to get fixed as
[1:34:18] well.
And I sense there was some urgency
[1:34:23] because you know it's the school zone
thing but
[1:34:25] » yeah but adopting it tonight it starts a
clock so it doesn't actually take effect
[1:34:30] but it will get us a lot closer.
I'll move to approve
[1:34:37] the amendments.
[1:34:45] » Motion's been made and seconded to
approve.
[1:34:49] Which one? The one that's in our packet.
>> Okay. The one in the envelope. It's the
[1:34:54] one that says asset work above.
Yes. One in the P folder.
[1:35:02] That one says as set forth.
>> Oh, it's lefty as set forth above. Okay,
[1:35:06] » it's in the one I'm looking at. So
that's
[1:35:08] » okay. Very good. It includes the
language as set forth above which will
[1:35:13] make the chair feel validated useful.
>> That's what's important. That one you
[1:35:18] all get to sign that one.
>> Any further discussion?
[1:35:21] If not, all in favor of amending the
ordinance to take out the flashing
[1:35:27] birds, please say I.
>> I. I. Motion carries four in favor with
[1:35:34] one that's
[1:35:49] okay. So that starts the clock just
[1:35:58] » anything else for our police chief.
[1:36:04] » Okay. Thanks very much.
>> Appreciate it.
[1:36:20] All right. Next on the agenda. Oh, look.
It's Dave Sears down commissioner.
[1:36:25] » I bet
[1:36:32] short, sweet, and to the point.
>> Um
[1:36:36] » just expensive.
>> Yeah, it always
[1:36:39] » Yeah. Uh paving on the uh neighborhood
off of uh Avenue is still continuing. Um
[1:36:50] they did a little bit today. They're
going to do as much as they can do
[1:36:53] tomorrow before it rains. And they said
they should be able to finish that up on
[1:36:56] Friday so that that neighborhood will be
done. Uh we paved the ditches on Gro
[1:37:02] Street where we replace the culverts.
Uh, so that's ready for them when
[1:37:06] they're ready to
uh mill and fill that. Um, they don't
[1:37:12] have a date yet, but they said uh
possibly mid to late next week.
[1:37:22] We went to the centerland fire
department today and cleaned up after
[1:37:26] the paving from zoom and uh painted the
parking lot and that's all happy
[1:37:33] and uh we have a committee meeting on
Thursday at 9:00 with Robert Clark and
[1:37:38] go over this East Grand View or East
Mountain View covert situation and
[1:37:44] figure out what is the best avenue to
fix that thing.
[1:37:51] That's it.
>> Did we have that flagged or noted
[1:37:57] anywhere?
>> Negative.
[1:38:03] » It was noted when roads class.
>> That was a
[1:38:06] » noted.
>> Do we noted?
[1:38:09] » I guess there isn't much that we can do
to anticipate those.
[1:38:14] » Uh we did covert inspections last year.
the the bottom rotted out and
[1:38:20] paved up.
>> I guess that's why we got the this the
[1:38:24] collapse of the road.
>> Um it
[1:38:28] wasn't that way last winter. Only one
section of it. The whole thing didn't do
[1:38:33] it. It's just one section of the pipe
that did. So um I mean it's a galvanized
[1:38:37] pipe
>> in the middle, right?
[1:38:39] » Well, yeah.
>> Is
[1:38:43] you know I mean it's galvanized. It's
galvanized pipe and it has a lifespan
[1:38:46] and it's I don't know when it was put in
but probably 40 50 years ago
[1:38:52] got their money out of it
>> there. This is the one we looked at last
[1:38:57] week or two weeks ago.
>> Yes.
[1:38:59] » So there was some discussion about
getting a temporary something from the
[1:39:03] state to go ahead.
>> So I've got I had a discussion with Josh
[1:39:07] Carveral who's this rivers and streams
guy
[1:39:11] um and Otter Creek had a discussion with
him also. We have
[1:39:17] couple options. None of them are good
because now that it's collapsed, it
[1:39:22] needs to be it can't be repaired in
kind. It has to meet the standards. So,
[1:39:29] right now it's a 48 inch cover that's in
there.
[1:39:33] When it
gets a complete, it's going to look more
[1:39:39] along the lines of what's about to be
put in on Stratton Road. It's going to
[1:39:42] have to be 12 to 14 feet wide.
And
[1:39:48] um we have some options. They'll give us
a permit to repair it, but the permit's
[1:39:54] only good for two years. We have to do
something with it within two years
[1:39:59] um as a permit fix. And if we can't get
the funding and we can't get everything
[1:40:04] put together, they'll give us an
extension. But it's not a forever thing.
[1:40:07] It's a two-year window. Try to hit the
window. If you miss the window, we'll
[1:40:12] give you a little grace, but after that,
you got to do something. So, um, you
[1:40:17] know, we got the structures grant for
Straten.
[1:40:20] Chances of us the structures grant next
year for this are slim.
[1:40:24] » Yeah.
>> And oft
[1:40:30] grant mo most likely,
unless the state somehow shows mercy on
[1:40:36] us because the thing failed and they
bump us up the list a little bit.
[1:40:41] um
>> send pictures of the road.
[1:40:44] » Fix this place.
>> But then again, you know, and this goes
[1:40:49] into a discussion we were having about a
depreciation account for culverts
[1:40:53] because even if I mean this this culvert
on Stratton Road is going to be
[1:40:57] somewhere in the 400 $450,000 range and
the state's max is 200,000.
[1:41:04] So the extra money that we budgeted
for that cover is going to have to be
[1:41:10] carried forward in this next budget
looking at down the line for this
[1:41:15] culvert.
You know, we're going to have to come up
[1:41:17] with some kind of a plan here. It I
mean, you know, the thing Devin was
[1:41:22] talking about tonight was
a little bit bigger in scope than what
[1:41:28] we I mean, that's all-encompassing, but
would fit because that
[1:41:34] Y
>> and this isn't the only one that's going
[1:41:37] to fail in the town. There's a a million
I mean there's 760
[1:41:42] some odd coververts in town and you know
there's a vast majority of them are
[1:41:48] galvanized.
>> Probably will have to be 14 ft wide.
[1:41:53] Probably not all of them, but there'll
be some.
[1:41:57] » Hoping to see in this new color
inventory is maybe looking ahead at how
[1:42:02] many short structures
which which covers will have to be
[1:42:07] upgraded,
>> you know, and like so this this cover is
[1:42:11] downstream of the one that was replaced
on Town Line Road two years ago, three
[1:42:14] years ago. And as they go downstream,
they get it has more storm water that it
[1:42:19] collects. So they get bigger as they go
down the hill. So this one, this one's
[1:42:25] going to be 14 ft wide. The next one
down, not even sure what that really is,
[1:42:29] but that one could be 18 ft wide. I
mean, they just
[1:42:34] » Yeah, I think the next one after that's
the city.
[1:42:36] » Okay. Well, then we're all good there.
But
[1:42:40] » they can have it estimate for
replacement cost.
[1:42:45] » I mean, you I know you want to go to the
meeting.
[1:42:48] » I know. Well,
>> I'd say 3 350 is on the cheaper side,
[1:42:53] probably at
>> on a walk day. Yeah.
[1:42:56] » Yeah.
>> I mean, the engineers the engineers
[1:42:59] estimate for Straten Road was half
$500,000.
[1:43:04] » Okay.
>> We're coming in hopefully a little bit
[1:43:06] less than that, but
[1:43:11] they don't get cheaper.
>> No.
[1:43:12] » Prices don't go down. Passive fuel $6 a
gallon all of a sudden.
[1:43:18] » Okay.
And I'll be bringing that probably the
[1:43:20] next time uh is the uh hubards asked for
something for fuel for this year for
[1:43:27] plowing.
>> So I'm trying to work something out with
[1:43:30] them and I'll I'll have that. Hopefully
I'll have that nailed down by next week
[1:43:33] or next
>> years ago.
[1:43:34] » Yeah, we did what my first year here 22.
>> Gave them a fuel stipen.
[1:43:39] » Yeah, remember we didn't need it for a
few years, but I guess we're back.
[1:43:43] » Yeah, we're back.
Almost tipped over this morning when I
[1:43:47] came by the Irving down on South Main
Street. It was 609 a gallon.
[1:43:51] Drove into a pole.
Kidding me.
[1:43:56] » Hey. Um, well, we have had a couple of
bids here on heating oil, but we'll go
[1:44:03] through those later. I can't blame those
on you. So,
[1:44:09] » um,
>> and then the only other thing on the the
[1:44:11] action items is G for the quarter line
thing.
[1:44:14] » Okay. This is we asked Bill last week to
come up with a schedule to do the
[1:44:22] whatever is necessary for public warning
site inspection and then um whatever
[1:44:28] waiting period
to
[1:44:33] um standardize that's probably the best
way the speed limit on quarterline road
[1:44:38] to
>> road class of course road classification
[1:44:41] » get that in there but that's road
classification for class three parts of
[1:44:46] it are class 4 and we're going to
presumably
[1:44:52] um standardized.
Um so any questions, concerns on
[1:44:59] » October 20th would be the kind of come
up with that that's that's a board
[1:45:02] meeting night.
>> Yeah.
[1:45:03] » And that
give me a comfortable amount of time to
[1:45:07] get the notices out in the morning.
>> Okay. Um, and then that studying that
[1:45:13] date, everything else kind of works off
of that. So,
[1:45:15] » okay,
>> there's a couple other things here and
[1:45:17] there, but it's but if that becomes the
date that that's the date everything
[1:45:20] kind of works off of.
>> Okay.
[1:45:24] » Um,
>> that would involve so
[1:45:28] » and does that give you enough time to
get notices out to people?
[1:45:31] » Yes. Okay.
>> Trying to account for
[1:45:34] speed of the post office currently. Um,
>> see the certified does help get there a
[1:45:39] little bit more quickly, but I didn't
know if you want to change the times at
[1:45:42] all. Like I did 5:00 for on the road and
then 6:30 for the hearing.
[1:45:47] » It usually only takes about maybe half
an hour up there and if it's raining or
[1:45:52] snowing um would be a shorter meeting
and then it gives us an
[1:45:58] » I could just walk out.
[1:46:04] Um, so that I think that gives us enough
time.
[1:46:07] » You think so? Yeah.
>> Okay.
[1:46:11] » Questions we're going to answer on the
road anyway.
[1:46:14] » Can't really
It's not it's it's it's just for the
[1:46:19] board.
>> And then is then
[1:46:23] » just meet here and go there and run to
the Well,
[1:46:27] » I'm gonna start there because I'm kind
of close.
[1:46:36] school year at least time.
[1:46:42] » Um and then there's is the public
meeting back here the same night or
[1:46:46] » that that was the plan. Yeah.
>> Okay. All right. No, we can do it.
[1:46:50] » That's where people can
either.
[1:46:54] » Okay.
>> Very nicely stated.
[1:46:56] » Yeah.
Right. Um, do we need to formally
[1:47:02] approve the process?
>> Doesn't require a motion because they
[1:47:06] you certainly can.
>> All right. Why don't you
[1:47:11] Let's do a motion. Let's um approve the
schedule set out by our town
[1:47:17] administrator and proceed with warning
the change of road classification on
[1:47:24] Quarterline Road from
three and four variously to all three.
[1:47:33] » Good motion.
Motion's made and seconded. Any further
[1:47:37] discussion?
>> Look real good in the minutes in front
[1:47:41] of it.
All in favor, please say I.
[1:47:44] » I.
>> I.
[1:47:47] Any oppose? Motion carries. 4 Z. Okay.
Um.
[1:47:53] That takes care of that.
Anything else for our road commissioner?
[1:48:03] » On the uh you can ask him while he's
here. The Stratton Road contract
[1:48:07] document. Parts need to get filled in.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One section is
[1:48:12] someone that saw you sign it needs to
sign it that says they saw you sign it.
[1:48:19] » And the other one is the designated uh
town official
[1:48:25] which
gave but that's you guys. Um the minutes
[1:48:32] from the
August 14th who was here in August 14th
[1:48:38] will was everybody.
>> Okay. So um since you were all here I
[1:48:45] will say that this is my signature and I
signed it on 82526
[1:48:51] and surely you remember
>> my motion wasn't it?
[1:48:57] So Matt, she's filling that the attest
and the title part and then the
[1:49:00] designated
>> then we need a motion to designate Dave
[1:49:06] » as the town's
>> designated authority to do something
[1:49:11] probably pay for it
>> can write down a six-digit number just
[1:49:17] anybody else can
[1:49:23] » you want to make the the other motion
and the town's designate.
[1:49:33] » Motion's made. Is there a second?
>> Second.
[1:49:36] » And seconded
discussion.
[1:49:40] If not, all in favor, please say I.
>> I.
[1:49:47] We put in the uh we put in the uh here.
Yes, you can. Yeah, you can fill that or
[1:49:54] I can do it later. It's fine.
That I'm going to or it gets away. I'm
[1:49:58] going to put in
>> Does somebody have to sign saying that
[1:50:05] we made that motion too?
>> There is not a signature line for that.
[1:50:08] » Okay, very good.
[1:50:15] » Okay. Goes in the pink folder.
>> Good color.
[1:50:22] What do you call it?
>> Okay.
[1:50:26] » To talk about this translator
[1:50:47] » is a rebuttal for my rebuttal. It's
their It's their followup.
[1:50:53] » Thanks for that.
>> They're not going to Why don't we use
[1:50:56] full sentences and just describe for the
record what
[1:51:02] » based upon the historical permits,
agreements, uh previous efforts to
[1:51:09] install a second left-hand turn lane
which VR posed when that was done. uh in
[1:51:16] the presence of the traffic study that
we provided them and the absence of new
[1:51:22] traffic data from the new store that is
under construction and the one that may
[1:51:25] be under construction. They are
declining to support our proposal to
[1:51:30] remove the island and install their
driveway.
[1:51:34] » All right.
[1:51:39] » Apparently that made it rounds.
[1:51:43] I got to be transit that it made around
people felt a lot of attention. So
[1:51:49] hoping that if we maybe back go I I
talked a lot of the owners see if we can
[1:51:55] get their traffic information and
or if we want to how we want to do with
[1:52:00] this if we want to keep keep trying to
go after this.
[1:52:04] » Let's have Joe in on the discussion too.
>> Yeah.
[1:52:14] I think we just go down there, take the
island out, repaint it, and let them
[1:52:17] rock
>> cuz there's the light that if you get on
[1:52:20] there and look at it, the lights down
there work for what we're trying to do.
[1:52:23] » So,
>> it's just not the extra one that they
[1:52:26] want, but the lights that are there's a
there's a righthand turn one that comes
[1:52:30] on and signals right turn. It works.
Yeah, I've I've not had a problem
[1:52:35] getting out.
>> They they addressed a concern about
[1:52:38] truck traffic or ferals having a
difficult a more difficult time trying
[1:52:43] to cross two left hand one right hand
turn lane rather than just one of each
[1:52:47] right now.
[1:52:51] » Did you talk about a slip lane that we
were going to put in? We let go of that.
[1:52:54] That that was
>> a little dig at us, wasn't it?
[1:52:59] » There kind of was. Um, but there's no
real good solution for that. I mean,
[1:53:06] unless we
legitimately
[1:53:10] just eliminate that section of Cop John
Drive and there is no more that little
[1:53:17] that little section beyond the Feral
Road part that goes Feral Road to to
[1:53:21] Holiday Drive.
>> I don't see them obviously that's that's
[1:53:24] a
>> the whole step, but but we would have to
[1:53:27] do that with a slip lane because we
could we couldn't have traffic crossing
[1:53:30] anyway. So
>> yeah,
[1:53:32] » I mean maybe a a a comprehensive look at
between those two intersections given
[1:53:38] there's now this credit union coming in.
Are there changes additional changes
[1:53:43] that make sense on a bigger scale that
could be trans right away you know that
[1:53:48] they could they could help help support
throughout throughout that whole section
[1:53:52] of Cop John Drive.
Yeah.
[1:53:56] » Oh my just wanted a traffic just
[1:54:01] So,
>> okay.
[1:54:03] » Uh, the short answer is no. Like I don't
think I don't think it's it's a forever
[1:54:08] no. It's a we we need to make a better
case for them and till we do that that's
[1:54:13] not going to go anywhere.
>> I'm not sure that's a huge priority.
[1:54:21] » Okay. Well, thanks for your input on
that.
[1:54:24] Anything
else for our road commissioner?
[1:54:30] » I just got one more thing. Had you taken
my advice last meeting, you would have
[1:54:34] been home half an hour ago.
I'm out.
[1:54:39] » Yeah. Thanks a lot.
>> Good night everybody.
[1:54:43] » Good night.
Well, okay.
[1:54:48] Uh Chris Clark, town fire chief
>> there.
[1:54:55] probably asleep.
>> Do you have anything for Kim?
[1:55:07] » Can you hear me?
>> There he is.
[1:55:09] » There we go.
>> Hi, Chief.
[1:55:12] » Hi. How is everybody?
>> Oh, hunky dory. Thank you.
[1:55:18] » Oh, good. Good. Uh, just one thing. Uh
the radios we ordered have come in. So
[1:55:24] in your paperwork there is the bill. Uh
like we discussed I took it out of the
[1:55:30] depreciation fund until
um
[1:55:35] Mr. Walmart starts his construction and
repays us back. So there is a bill in
[1:55:42] there from the depreciation fund for the
radios.
[1:55:46] » Yes, we saw that. and the police
department has a little bit in there,
[1:55:50] too. And I noticed that the costs were
split between the two of you. So, thank
[1:55:56] you very much. And we did approve it
earlier.
[1:55:59] » Yes. Perfect. So, that's all I had. So,
I know you have a long night. So, uh,
[1:56:04] unless you have a question, I'm good.
>> Anything else for our fire chief? Okay.
[1:56:11] Thank you very much, Chris. Appreciate
it.
[1:56:13] » Thanks. Have a good one.
>> You, too. All right, Marie Fagnant, town
[1:56:19] listister.
And we have
[1:56:24] the error emissions.
>> Yes, we can. Um, we're looking under
[1:56:29] action item F, errors and emissions
certificate for the listers. And this
[1:56:33] one actually gives us more value in our
grand list, right?
[1:56:40] » Yes, it does. It is a significant uh
change that was um prompted by the
[1:56:50] entity because the state actually had
incorrectly
[1:56:54] valued their utility property.
So, uh kudos to them for reaching out
[1:57:01] and saying that they actually owed us
more and it's assessed under the real
[1:57:05] estate uh property. So, at the same
time, I was just checking my emails and
[1:57:12] the other entity that had purchased all
the equipment that we had to purge on
[1:57:18] the last ENO has indicated that they
need to report and reconcile that
[1:57:26] equipment as well. So, we are going to
come back up even more. Um, so those are
[1:57:33] really developments. Yes. So, I'm going
to keep it short. That's basically all
[1:57:38] we have. So, if we could sign those, I
can get uh revised or sign that one.
[1:57:43] I'll have to do the next one for the
next meeting. Um we'll get revised bills
[1:57:48] up.
>> Okay. Um this is the Arizona missions
[1:57:54] certificate already approved by Marie uh
Fagnet and Kathy Capitansky
[1:58:00] to increase the grandless value of
Vermont Transco. LLC
[1:58:06] by 73,837.99.
[1:58:10] Um, so and we all get to sign. So, is
there a motion to approve?
[1:58:16] » Move.
>> Second.
[1:58:17] » Motion's made and seconded. Any further
discussion?
[1:58:22] If not, all in favor, please say I.
>> I.
[1:58:25] » I. Motion carries.
Okay.
[1:58:30] » Very good.
and I will take my lead. Thank you
[1:58:35] everyone. Have a great night.
[1:58:39] » Nice.
[1:58:42] I'm rep director.
[1:59:37] We we have a couple of senior uh senior
activities coming up. If the seniors
[1:59:42] would like to take advantage of them,
we're going up at some point uh to the
[1:59:46] top of Killington, the senior stop at
Killington on the gondola for the
[1:59:50] foliage and we're going to do a modified
version of