1
00:00:01,580 --> 00:00:08,580
We're working today's notice. Yeah, so we probably need to do exactly that.

2
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:18,720
We're supposed to be agenda at least by the trip right at the border. Yeah, the self-appened kind of.

3
00:00:19,220 --> 00:00:21,100
Thank you so much.

4
00:00:21,860 --> 00:00:22,460
Just like this.

5
00:00:23,020 --> 00:00:24,600
The English people are the one here.

6
00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:26,920
You discuss it with the council.

7
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,100
Next week, Matthew, you're good for that.

8
00:00:30,100 --> 00:00:39,680
I don't think there's good for you, but there shouldn't be too much going on.

9
00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,000
There's a company that looked at, I was like, okay, I can see why that was there.

10
00:00:45,580 --> 00:00:45,760
Yeah.

11
00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,560
I have an explanation for this.

12
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,560
I have an explanation for this.

13
00:00:54,460 --> 00:00:54,800
Hi.

14
00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:55,300
Hi.

15
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:56,820
How are you?

16
00:00:57,140 --> 00:00:57,800
I'm here.

17
00:00:58,100 --> 00:00:58,640
You feel better?

18
00:00:59,060 --> 00:00:59,280
Yeah.

19
00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:00,860
Do you want to do something?

20
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,060
Just go all the way.

21
00:01:05,460 --> 00:01:06,380
They're not.

22
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They're not.

23
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:07,180
They're not.

24
00:01:07,180 --> 00:01:09,820
They're not doing something as well as cold.

25
00:01:10,540 --> 00:01:11,960
I'm going to go and talk to them.

26
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:12,500
I'll just go.

27
00:01:12,500 --> 00:01:14,000
I'll just go back to his.

28
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You need to take it.

29
00:01:20,420 --> 00:01:21,000
Yeah.

30
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:22,780
I need to take it.

31
00:01:23,220 --> 00:01:24,720
They didn't find anything wrong.

32
00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:25,620
They didn't find anything wrong.

33
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You are doing something, it's both, but that is just right.

34
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Just what I needed.

35
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I knew it.

36
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And I had a couple of times more about it together.

37
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What I've done in the climate is some of them to produce.

38
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But thanks.

39
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:43,790
Right on.

40
00:01:44,580 --> 00:01:45,220
We'll find out.

41
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:46,600
Don't you know.

42
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,320
I do have a beautiful deal.

43
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Thank you.

44
00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:49,200
Good.

45
00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:50,480
I think we're like those articles.

46
00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,540
That was just a little bit of a surprise boarder service.

47
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There are lots of things that are going to be there.

48
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I know that there's a lot of things that are going to be there.

49
00:01:59,230 --> 00:02:00,400
It's where I'm all right.

50
00:02:01,140 --> 00:02:05,540
What they've been through for years, we're going to have a side point at this.

51
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:11,220
We're going to be able to change something.

52
00:02:13,140 --> 00:02:13,920
And we're right.

53
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,740
Well, to look off, you know, a common collective considering the shelter,

54
00:02:17,740 --> 00:02:21,880
I don't know, I'm supposed to know.

55
00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:25,140
Yeah, I'm just, you know, a moral of the earth.

56
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We have to wait for us.

57
00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,260
Or how will I know that we have to go around?

58
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I think.

59
00:02:37,140 --> 00:02:38,460
Maybe we need a proposal.

60
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About four and one.

61
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There's seven.

62
00:02:43,140 --> 00:02:43,420
Okay.

63
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:44,780
That's just here.

64
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:46,620
It looks like yards.

65
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:01,280
How you doing?

66
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:02,480
How are you?

67
00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:03,280
About the same?

68
00:03:05,700 --> 00:03:06,100
Yeah.

69
00:03:06,100 --> 00:03:06,560
I'm talking

70
00:03:11,420 --> 00:03:14,840
to you.

71
00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:17,160
I'm talking to you.

72
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:19,100
I'm talking to you.

73
00:03:19,100 --> 00:03:21,280
So how do we evaluate that according to Ralph?

74
00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:22,160
I'm right.

75
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:23,220
Well, I'll change.

76
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,160
It wasn't until that time the Doug Wilmore's.

77
00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:26,260
Only if you eat him in the meat.

78
00:03:26,900 --> 00:03:27,960
Only if you eat him.

79
00:03:28,380 --> 00:03:28,620
Yeah.

80
00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:29,220
Only if you eat him.

81
00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:30,980
I'll be eating him.

82
00:03:30,980 --> 00:03:32,020
I'll be eating him.

83
00:03:32,300 --> 00:03:33,100
I'll be eating him.

84
00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:34,680
I'll stay with all my students.

85
00:03:36,060 --> 00:03:36,500
All right.

86
00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:37,960
It's too o'clock.

87
00:03:38,460 --> 00:03:39,560
Well, a little after two.

88
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,140
So we'll call this meeting shortly.

89
00:03:41,260 --> 00:03:42,700
We've got a quorum.

90
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,980
I guess we'll open it to any public comment

91
00:03:45,980 --> 00:03:47,540
if there's any.

92
00:03:49,710 --> 00:03:54,710
Seeing none, we'll move on to approval of the minutes

93
00:03:55,330 --> 00:04:00,470
for March 26, 2025 debt review committee meeting.

94
00:04:01,950 --> 00:04:06,010
Any comments or no comments on a motion?

95
00:04:07,310 --> 00:04:08,490
All right.

96
00:04:08,490 --> 00:04:13,410
Second. Thanks for our second by Mitch, all in favor, say aye.

97
00:04:14,350 --> 00:04:16,310
Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any post?

98
00:04:17,290 --> 00:04:20,030
All right. That passes unanimously.

99
00:04:22,130 --> 00:04:23,910
Moving on to item 4.1.

100
00:04:24,310 --> 00:04:29,910
Our financial advisor, mark it update. We'll turn the time over to John.

101
00:04:30,390 --> 00:04:33,630
Yeah. I'll start out and J5 can do the balance of it.

102
00:04:33,630 --> 00:04:40,810
just as a point of curiosity for the committee here, back in 2022, when we decided to pull

103
00:04:40,810 --> 00:04:48,190
the trigger on the refining of the 2015 BE General Obligation Bonds, without it would be wise

104
00:04:48,190 --> 00:04:53,490
to take advantage of the historically low interest rates. We did. We've executed the forward

105
00:04:53,490 --> 00:04:59,270
purchase agreement, scared to the close that transaction June 17th of

106
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:08,420
This year we saved a significant amount of money for that size of a transaction, about 4.88% on a net present

107
00:05:08,420 --> 00:05:15,400
value basis, which is great. In today's environment for the committees, again, curiosity,

108
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where we would try to refinance it in the current market. We would lose $375,000 just about 2.7%

109
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on a net PV basis.

110
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,520
So, it's telling Craig at the beginning of the meeting.

111
00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,700
Why is decision to take advantage

112
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of those low interest rates at the time of the year?

113
00:05:39,100 --> 00:05:42,940
So, with that, and Jay Fitz will jump into the market

114
00:05:42,940 --> 00:05:46,920
update and tell us a little about Fed Fund's futures

115
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and market movement.

116
00:05:49,060 --> 00:05:56,100
So, I sent this out to the group, and I printed

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off a bunch of these. They are on the printer and science banks. So if you're interested in a

118
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print version of it, stop by our office.

119
00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:11,140
You would have been rushed between your last meeting here. I wonder what that until they were

120
00:06:11,140 --> 00:06:15,720
giving us some of us a little remedial course in on method.

121
00:06:16,540 --> 00:06:20,460
Well, yeah. So for that, of course.

122
00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,060
So, effectively we've got a couple of things.

123
00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:30,280
I like to keep that yield curve change from the 10-year median and the current MMD on there,

124
00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:38,000
but a couple of things that I think to highlight here, first one is Federal Reserve Futures

125
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Market, what they've kind of been doing over the last month.

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Basically, this top-right chart on the market snapshot shows the Federal Reserve Futures

127
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market current federal funds rate is 425 to 450 so it's a it's a band it is that available

128
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,780
to the committee or you're able to see that emailed.

129
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I can put it up on the screen if I get that H.T. mic or maybe

130
00:07:09,270 --> 00:07:11,270
can you have me that cord

131
00:07:11,270 --> 00:07:18,780
that quit this one here yeah I hope this is the right one

132
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yeah

133
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,560
selects that it was there.

134
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:48,100
Ross, is that you that is supposed to select it?

135
00:07:48,100 --> 00:07:50,260
It was on the screen for a second.

136
00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:02,680
Awesome.

137
00:08:03,180 --> 00:08:03,200
Hey.

138
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,700
Hey, who needs to print stuff out?

139
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,880
We can work in a digital world.

140
00:08:08,940 --> 00:08:10,480
Can you hide that window, maybe?

141
00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:12,340
That'll be great.

142
00:08:13,020 --> 00:08:15,460
OK, so Federal Reserve Futures Market.

143
00:08:17,260 --> 00:08:23,680
So the two different overlapping colors here,

144
00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:29,760
represent what the futures market is currently versus what it was a month ago, and this

145
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:35,500
is the expectations for fed rate cuts. So that front end of the yield curve is flat.

146
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:42,520
You know, you see there in that yield curve change graphic, and then that's partially a

147
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,960
function of what the Federal Reserve is doing to their short term lending and borrowing

148
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rates. So you'll see that the expectation was that they would take Fed funds rate from the

149
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425 or 50 ban that it's currently at and then the chart there shows the different

150
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:08,860
expectations or percentage chances of where it would end the year at the December 10th meeting.

151
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:15,400
So a month ago is the gray bands and you'll see that the expectation was that there was kind

152
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:23,400
The median estimate was that rates would drop from the 425-450 range to the 35375,

153
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or in other words, the 75 basis point change in the Fed funds target rate over the remainder

154
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of this year.

155
00:09:34,100 --> 00:09:41,180
You'll see that over the course of one month that changed from a median expectation of 75 basis

156
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points to 50 basis points.

157
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:45,900
and could change further.

158
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:51,120
But effectively saying that interest rates are going to remain higher on the front end.

159
00:09:51,340 --> 00:09:54,020
You'll continue to see higher reinvestment rates.

160
00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:59,920
High long term rates because we're not seeing that pressure on the front end of the yield.

161
00:10:00,900 --> 00:10:15,880
And you may see the long end of the curve go up in what we call a bull steeper, so your front end stays relatively low, and the back end goes to compensate investors for the time value of money over it.

162
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:26,600
And so that could be something that we see as a result of this, or some combination as rates do drop, and maybe rates go a little bit higher on the long end.

163
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:35,400
Fed just released their survey of consumer sentiment for 2024, and I just thought this was

164
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:43,300
really interesting to see the differential expectations or sentiment in people's views

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of their own finances, which is that top blue line, and then their local economy, which

166
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they think is worse than their own finances, and then the nationally economy, which is

167
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worse. But there seems to be no relationship between how people are actually doing themselves

168
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and what the local and national economies are doing. You did see that dip obviously in 2020

169
00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:13,860
in consumer sentiment and maybe a slight rise over the last couple of years in that sentiment.

170
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But generally people are feeling way more pessimistic than their own personal economic conditions

171
00:11:19,620 --> 00:11:24,640
would lead you to believe, which I just think is a really interesting hard

172
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danger for what the future holds.

173
00:11:27,380 --> 00:11:29,480
Is that current or is that ended 2024?

174
00:11:29,940 --> 00:11:32,340
So the survey was 2024, sir.

175
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,880
Yeah, it's their current release, which is 2024 look back.

176
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:42,760
I saw an article that said 150% of credit card debt was being on the

177
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compared to what it was, I don't know,

178
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:45,980
a little quarter of the oversatient.

179
00:11:46,660 --> 00:11:50,320
Yeah, so there has been an increase in some of your kind

180
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:55,800
of your revolving loan fund, your revolving debt repayment metrics,

181
00:11:56,740 --> 00:11:59,920
but I think overall banks are actually in a really good spot

182
00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:06,140
right now, and their balances actually increased last month,

183
00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:09,640
their deposits on balance have been increasing.

184
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:18,640
So overall, you know, it's a mix bag, um, we get new tariff information daily, which is fun.

185
00:12:19,540 --> 00:12:24,580
Um, Craig didn't, Craig laughed, I think he thought that was funny, but that was fun.

186
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:34,400
So you can see, you know, on the municipal market outlook, the back side of this, um, that what that's kind of done overall to

187
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:40,020
interest rates, the six-month change is up, but the one-month change is down on the front

188
00:12:40,020 --> 00:12:48,460
in, up on the long end, so this is kind of that idea. This is kind of along the same lines

189
00:12:48,460 --> 00:12:52,860
of that idea that maybe we'll get the front end dropping a little bit and the long end coming

190
00:12:52,860 --> 00:12:56,920
up to kind of give us that more normal yield curve over time.

191
00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,920
So that's what I got. Any questions?

192
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,320
Maybe I'll point out on that Fed funds future analysis.

193
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:17,360
There isn't consistency between the governors who are interviewed or in this case the future's contracts that are entered into today and

194
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:18,960
is fading will happen to December.

195
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,720
There have been times when it's much more concentrated,

196
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,700
and there's a sure bat that we were 75 basis points,

197
00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:33,420
or better on the reduction side in this particular case.

198
00:13:33,420 --> 00:13:36,420
Whether we're 25, whether we're 50, whether we're 75,

199
00:13:36,860 --> 00:13:40,980
percent is only a small percentage of those contracts

200
00:13:40,980 --> 00:13:42,240
making those bet.

201
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,780
So I think it suggests we're in a very volatile time.

202
00:13:45,780 --> 00:13:48,220
no one really knows what what to say

203
00:13:51,550 --> 00:13:57,290
that's it all right thank you will move on to

204
00:13:57,290 --> 00:14:02,450
item 4.2 consideration of recommendation to the Salt Lake County Council or the

205
00:14:02,450 --> 00:14:08,250
Municipal Building Authority to issue approximately $120 million in bonds to reimburse the cost

206
00:14:08,250 --> 00:14:13,110
of acquiring the new government center building and cost associated with remodel and retrofit

207
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:15,350
it to Darren Casper.

208
00:14:16,210 --> 00:14:17,650
I mean, turn the time over to Darren.

209
00:14:17,650 --> 00:14:17,850
Sure.

210
00:14:17,950 --> 00:14:18,570
Thank you.

211
00:14:19,710 --> 00:14:19,790
Yeah.

212
00:14:20,670 --> 00:14:23,650
So, I think there was at least one question before the

213
00:14:23,650 --> 00:14:25,170
degree of committee, and that's the type of

214
00:14:25,170 --> 00:14:25,810
bond structure.

215
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:29,230
And we may have backed into it,

216
00:14:29,630 --> 00:14:32,350
necessarily, with regard to size of the library

217
00:14:32,350 --> 00:14:32,730
bond.

218
00:14:32,910 --> 00:14:35,970
So, I did reach out to less the work

219
00:14:35,970 --> 00:14:38,990
from the Webster with the library fund.

220
00:14:39,450 --> 00:14:42,770
And her estimate of the current contemplated

221
00:14:42,770 --> 00:14:46,570
projects for NBA debt, total out to about $120 million.

222
00:14:48,110 --> 00:14:53,290
Therefore, with that $120 million and the $120 million

223
00:14:53,290 --> 00:14:58,770
that we're talking about today, that those amounts exceed the...

224
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:06,460
The amount of MBA debt that can be issued for a non-Jail in a three-year period of time.

225
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:14,360
Therefore, it seems to me the best alternative for this debt is sales tax bond.

226
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:22,360
Obviously, there's advantages to keeping sales tax debt capacity for things that come up.

227
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:31,060
Right. It is easy to issue the debt. We're tripled. I rate it on that debt. And we do have some

228
00:15:31,060 --> 00:15:36,600
capacity. But this may be one of those times because we are, in fact, needing to issue this

229
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:42,780
debt for a couple of reasons. One, we used cash that we had on hand, the county, used cash that

230
00:15:42,780 --> 00:15:52,200
had on hand that was reserved by Council and Tant for new gel facilities basically, right?

231
00:15:53,540 --> 00:15:56,200
But we didn't have an extra spare $52 million.

232
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,260
And that real estate decision came up quick and it came up after the budget process.

233
00:16:01,820 --> 00:16:03,140
So we utilize that cash.

234
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,120
We need to reimburse ourselves for that.

235
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,460
which can be advantageous from a weird way.

236
00:16:10,020 --> 00:16:15,280
I mean, we'll be able to spend down 40% of the bond proceeds

237
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:16,720
on day one, right?

238
00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:19,940
And that can plan to our hands in a positive way as well.

239
00:16:20,580 --> 00:16:22,220
The second reason we need to issue the debt

240
00:16:22,220 --> 00:16:25,320
just besides reversing ourselves for the purchase

241
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,220
of the Peace Colosseum is to do two basic projects.

242
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,440
One would be the very minor remodel for the Peace Colosseum

243
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:34,740
that is being contemplated.

244
00:16:34,740 --> 00:16:38,660
as you are probably aware, Megan is going around talking

245
00:16:38,660 --> 00:16:43,420
with organizations and about the space needs,

246
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,260
and while we fit nicely into that space,

247
00:16:47,660 --> 00:16:49,920
there are some minor remodels that will have to take place.

248
00:16:50,940 --> 00:16:53,580
She has estimated that cost at about $35 million.

249
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,660
Second, there are three areas that we've identified

250
00:16:58,660 --> 00:17:01,120
that need to be basically replaced.

251
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:06,900
There are current operations that cannot be accommodated in the peace call scene.

252
00:17:08,060 --> 00:17:11,840
The first one is a place for facilities management.

253
00:17:12,060 --> 00:17:15,600
There is no facilities type space in the new building.

254
00:17:16,780 --> 00:17:21,640
The second is an operational center for elections.

255
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:28,480
There's no secure elections operation center with viewing windows, et cetera.

256
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:35,680
needed to run an option, and then importantly, meals on wheels operation.

257
00:17:37,260 --> 00:17:43,180
So this issuance would contemplate, reimbursement, ask for the cost of the Colosseum, and

258
00:17:43,180 --> 00:17:44,800
those new construction items.

259
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:50,200
And I don't know what else to say about it, I mean, the timing should be as quickly as

260
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:57,300
possible we want to get rolling on this project, I mean, in order to take advantage of

261
00:17:57,300 --> 00:18:03,760
the asset that we are sitting on, 14 acres, we need to accomplish the others first, right?

262
00:18:04,220 --> 00:18:08,680
You don't demolish the mills on wheels kitchen that we have here until we've got to replace them

263
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:15,620
up and running. And so time is up the essence for the continuation of moving the county's

264
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:22,040
corporate headquarters from here to Midville, and this is part of our step to it. I don't know if

265
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:29,600
there's any questions or Craig, I mean, we did do reimbursement resolutions for both MBA and

266
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:34,600
sales tax debt, fortunately, but I don't see MBA as feasible at the stage.

267
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:41,580
Is there a decision on whether, is there a decision on whether these three additional needs

268
00:18:41,580 --> 00:18:47,320
would be co-located, or would it be sort of facilities could be in mid-velle, but maybe not

269
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,480
there, or who knows, or what it would.

270
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,460
Well, yeah, I mean, it would be ideal if we could get them close by.

271
00:18:54,800 --> 00:19:00,480
And ironically, there's excess land associated with the new facility as well.

272
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:07,340
I mean, said that we have had discussions with a warehouse that is a relatively new warehouse in,

273
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,560
I mean, you could hit a driver from the Peace Corps all the same to the warehouse.

274
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,560
or you could do it.

275
00:19:15,740 --> 00:19:22,680
Yeah, yeah, you still too, but yeah, so it's like really close and it's really, I mean it's

276
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:27,020
like driving and driving out, so it'd be super conducive, for example, for meals on

277
00:19:27,020 --> 00:19:27,380
wheels.

278
00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:35,600
It'd also probably save us some money, but yeah, I mean my ideal would be having pretty close

279
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,520
to close together, but it's not necessary.

280
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:49,710
I don't know what else to say.

281
00:19:50,670 --> 00:19:54,710
I think that that review committee needs to make a recommendation to the bond type, right?

282
00:19:55,150 --> 00:19:59,670
Yeah, I mean that's how you say. I would move that we recommend to the council, but they follow the recommendation.

283
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:12,980
I would just add in the motion. The reason we're doing that is because the MVA ceiling is a problem.

284
00:20:13,820 --> 00:20:18,760
I think we should put that in the letter of recommendation to the council to understand the entirety of the basis.

285
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:19,720
All second.

286
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,420
Okay. We have a motion in the second. Any questions?

287
00:20:26,420 --> 00:20:29,400
I guess we should have done that earlier.

288
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:30,440
No questions?

289
00:20:30,980 --> 00:20:32,200
We'll all in favor.

290
00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:34,300
Hi.

291
00:20:36,420 --> 00:20:36,640
All right.

292
00:20:36,980 --> 00:20:37,600
Any opposed?

293
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:39,500
All right.

294
00:20:39,780 --> 00:20:40,220
That passes.

295
00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:46,440
With regards to that letter, is that something I need to write and we'll send to the council?

296
00:20:48,620 --> 00:20:50,140
We'll draft that up.

297
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,320
What I'll do is engage upon council.

298
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,840
and when they do a resolution, the letter would accompany it,

299
00:20:58,140 --> 00:21:02,220
I would recommend because that way they know what they're looking at,

300
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:03,600
instead of in isolation.

301
00:21:04,620 --> 00:21:07,160
So we'll work with Craig to draft that letter,

302
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,520
or we'll draft it and then send it to you.

303
00:21:09,620 --> 00:21:10,400
We've got a draft letter.

304
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:10,920
OK.

305
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:12,840
Ralph's got a perfect.

306
00:21:13,020 --> 00:21:13,820
Thank you.

307
00:21:14,220 --> 00:21:14,340
Template.

308
00:21:15,260 --> 00:21:17,240
All righty moving on to item 4.3,

309
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,940
discussion of the June 17th closing of bonds,

310
00:21:19,940 --> 00:21:22,900
pursuant to a forward-purchasing contract attached.

311
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,340
That's also during customer angioma.

312
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,180
I have John, just take a lead on this.

313
00:21:28,180 --> 00:21:32,960
I probably preempted the agenda a little bit with my market update on that transaction.

314
00:21:33,140 --> 00:21:36,560
There's not a whole lot more to discuss on that.

315
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:41,600
On that issue, legal documentation is happening right now.

316
00:21:41,660 --> 00:21:47,600
Trustee has noticed the bond holders that we are going to be paying them off on the 17th

317
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,980
and JP Morgan Chase or D&T trust,

318
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,240
their subsidiary, who's actually buying the bonds,

319
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:57,800
delivers money to the trustee.

320
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:00,760
So, nice savings, nice decision,

321
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,160
and we're in the process right now

322
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,700
of reviewing legal documentation from Gilmore Bell.

323
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,920
Jonathan, sorry if you've said this,

324
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,000
do you know what the total dollar amount would be?

325
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,580
I'm saving this as a comparative if we did it today.

326
00:22:17,580 --> 00:22:19,320
Yeah, we had,

327
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:36,920
if we did it today, we were looking at $325,000 negative or in the whole, the actual transaction was 662,000 in the positive on a net present value basis.

328
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:39,960
So basically a million dollars.

329
00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:40,380
Yeah.

330
00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:40,840
Give a take.

331
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:41,900
Cool.

332
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:46,060
So good transaction.

333
00:22:48,260 --> 00:22:49,720
Should we move you can graduate or something?

334
00:22:52,220 --> 00:22:56,800
Twenty-five dollar Amazon card for everybody to table.

335
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,960
Well, on a $13 million issue, and that's a lot of money.

336
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:02,640
Yeah.

337
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:03,260
Good job.

338
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:03,840
All right.

339
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,720
Moving on to item 4.4.

340
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:12,000
This is that review ordinance that cover expenses related to Tephra public hearing,

341
00:23:12,620 --> 00:23:14,300
and turn over to Mitch Park.

342
00:23:14,860 --> 00:23:15,820
May need a vote?

343
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:16,560
May not?

344
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,600
Well, I guess at this point,

345
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,400
We didn't circulate a draft copy of this.

346
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,940
And this goes back to either the last meeting

347
00:23:25,940 --> 00:23:29,760
or the meeting prior, I don't recall which.

348
00:23:30,220 --> 00:23:32,220
Where there was a discussion about a potential

349
00:23:32,220 --> 00:23:33,160
to have for a project.

350
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,960
And I know that when, for example, the debt review

351
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,700
ordinance contemplates for condo at financing

352
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:42,800
that there's a fee paid.

353
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,740
A percentage of the issuments are minimum of $15,000.

354
00:23:46,740 --> 00:23:52,960
And the idea for that is that it captures the cost and time, not just of this committee,

355
00:23:53,920 --> 00:24:00,420
and the people on it, including elected officials who are much bigger than I am, who have to take time

356
00:24:00,420 --> 00:24:07,220
out of their schedules, public time to review the matter, to liberate it, to hear presentations on it.

357
00:24:07,380 --> 00:24:13,880
But also the counsel, the staff, the quirks, everyone who's involved, who touches it, is an actual cost

358
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:19,020
that this is not a free service that's offered the public.

359
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,740
There's a role in material terms, cost of the county to review,

360
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,860
and consider this, just as I'm sure Bond Council is compensated for its time,

361
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:33,800
and the other financial participants in the transaction are compensated for their time,

362
00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:39,600
not to profit, not to earn money, which I don't think would be awful,

363
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:46,540
But to actually capture the cost of the taxpayers have for the public employees and elected officials to review these matters.

364
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,480
And I've worked on a draft ordinance.

365
00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:52,600
We don't have that in front of the committee.

366
00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:59,960
But I guess as a sort of prelude to that, when this came up last time, you know, Dave and I had this notion, and it wasn't real-

367
00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:15,340
So we thought now would be I think a time to get the sense of the debt review committee if they think that that's a good practice or not. And if so, what we think reasonable cost might be or how we ought to calculate them.

368
00:25:15,740 --> 00:25:29,920
And then I guess the related issue is do we want to take a stance on the broader policy question of whether the county is the appropriate entity to be holding these hearings, which are required by the federal tax code, or whether they should

369
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:46,040
And that code itself just requires a jurisdiction that is the project is contained in, which of course includes the county, but it also, in my view, includes the municipalities, the cities that have land use and other regulatory authority over these projects.

370
00:25:46,580 --> 00:25:58,760
And whether they aren't the more proper venue to be holding these hearings for the public to provide their point of view about whether or not these bonds meet the criteria required by the internal revenue code.

371
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,580
So those are sort of the discussion points.

372
00:26:03,060 --> 00:26:06,560
I'll turn it over to Dave to see what if anything he might have.

373
00:26:06,740 --> 00:26:09,680
And then I'd welcome the committee's point of view.

374
00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:11,840
Not much.

375
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:19,380
I think that the idea of having the individual entity

376
00:26:20,030 --> 00:26:22,480
most affected by the decision, I don't

377
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,520
hopefully in a positive way, it would make sense for a municipality

378
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:33,680
to be asked to hold these hearings first, and I guess, you know, if I were drafting it

379
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,740
from a bureaucratic standpoint, I would say, hey, before you come to the county, demonstrate

380
00:26:38,740 --> 00:26:42,040
that you've gone to the city and for whatever reason, that's not going to work.

381
00:26:43,460 --> 00:26:49,320
And I think the, you know, Ralph and Craig made an excellent point about, you know, let's

382
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,420
be careful about what we charge.

383
00:26:51,420 --> 00:27:04,080
But it depends on how you look at things as to what the direct cost is, because it's sort of like okay, we know we got hourly pay and we got benefit costs.

384
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,920
But there's also this notion of productive hours of work.

385
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:18,000
And so if you say, well, accounting employees get 12 holidays and accounting employees generally get 20 days of vacation and maybe they don't take all of it, but maybe they get sick.

386
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,460
and so maybe they have 20 days of vacation.

387
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,740
So, boy, all of a sudden, you're saying 32 days out of 260,

388
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:25,400
on cost go up.

389
00:27:27,900 --> 00:27:31,160
And the question really fundamentally is,

390
00:27:32,180 --> 00:27:36,840
I know it's the law, but what benefit is it to the county?

391
00:27:37,460 --> 00:27:39,700
And I know that we have a tougher hearing today,

392
00:27:39,700 --> 00:27:41,880
and I know that there's three different jurists

393
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:42,860
or a discussion item.

394
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,680
They, I know there's three different entities involved.

395
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,580
So that one seems to be a cut out of a different cloth, but I guess my question

396
00:27:50,580 --> 00:27:53,680
fundamentally is what are we the default?

397
00:27:54,060 --> 00:27:55,580
It feels that way.

398
00:27:58,170 --> 00:27:58,870
The comments?

399
00:27:59,270 --> 00:28:03,890
Is there any reason that the cities wouldn't, or that they would push back on holding

400
00:28:03,890 --> 00:28:07,450
these, or just the costs associated in time associated for them?

401
00:28:07,550 --> 00:28:12,670
They'd rather just have us do it, or so on it's talking about local control.

402
00:28:12,670 --> 00:28:15,390
they want, you know, how do you track a lower level?

403
00:28:15,930 --> 00:28:19,730
I mean, it's just a guess that meeting municipalities would now

404
00:28:19,730 --> 00:28:24,050
this the sophistication of our council and our fiscal advisors

405
00:28:24,050 --> 00:28:26,270
and our fiscal team at the county.

406
00:28:26,590 --> 00:28:29,890
I mean, we clearly know there are many small new cities that

407
00:28:29,890 --> 00:28:32,070
are struggling, you know, to the feet on so many things

408
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:34,530
that that would be my default.

409
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:37,690
Is it many municipalities that probably either never

410
00:28:37,690 --> 00:28:39,890
done a tougher hearing would have to do it.

411
00:28:39,890 --> 00:28:45,810
Right, take them more work to figure it out than it would us, but that's a guess.

412
00:28:47,050 --> 00:28:57,650
And today's, you know, Dave's Mitch's point is that a role the county wants to take on as kind of the default just because we do have that expertise and there is a cost associated with it.

413
00:28:57,910 --> 00:29:07,790
I don't know, but that would be my, I'm assuming some of these new municipalities that were Metro townships would be very difficult for them to get up to speed on how to do this without.

414
00:29:08,450 --> 00:29:12,410
They'd be calling Mr. Dave or Darren or Craig.

415
00:29:12,910 --> 00:29:14,810
It's even begin to get the process.

416
00:29:14,890 --> 00:29:17,810
What does this look like in any of that?

417
00:29:18,370 --> 00:29:19,650
So, that's just a guess.

418
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:24,070
And although the tap for hearing goes by pretty quick,

419
00:29:24,490 --> 00:29:27,730
reviewing and improving the documents takes quite a bit of time,

420
00:29:28,930 --> 00:29:30,470
it's not easy, you're hitting.

421
00:29:31,650 --> 00:29:35,310
And when I say that, we still recognize the council has to be pretty much

422
00:29:35,310 --> 00:29:41,230
educated on what it definitely is every single time we do it. So there is some work in making sure

423
00:29:41,230 --> 00:29:47,090
that the elected officials understand their role in the process as well. So I may, I'm not

424
00:29:47,090 --> 00:29:52,610
opposed to the idea of charging a fee, the point that Mitch and Dave and Craig and I were looking

425
00:29:52,610 --> 00:29:58,070
at this is everyone understands the fee cannot exceed the total cost provided in service. So I would

426
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:59,970
I'd recommend if we're going to...

427
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:11,940
A charge of fee that we undershoot our actual cost, because it is not, we don't have an ordinance that says we are supposed to try to shoot for our full cost, like we do in our local and other local entity.

428
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:29,980
I think we need to have enough so that we can say, yes, we are trying to capture that, but we are also being cognizant, we don't want to overshoot, and we also don't want to make it so that if it is a default, and this is a project that aids the community that we can't do it.

429
00:30:29,980 --> 00:30:34,110
or it's too expensive or someone to do it.

430
00:30:34,170 --> 00:30:35,870
Do you know how many doesn't, but you know how many

431
00:30:35,870 --> 00:30:40,850
tephraherings we have a year on average, like more than 20?

432
00:30:41,610 --> 00:30:44,710
It is. Oh no. It has in flows maybe. Oh.

433
00:30:45,010 --> 00:30:46,950
Three. Okay.

434
00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:53,090
Can we calculate the fee based on a reimbursement type schedule

435
00:30:53,090 --> 00:30:57,170
because I imagine that some of these are more complicated than others?

436
00:30:57,170 --> 00:31:02,170
with that be true, where rather than having a set fee,

437
00:31:02,930 --> 00:31:06,770
then we could calculate it based on actual costs

438
00:31:06,770 --> 00:31:11,290
that were incurred by our employees.

439
00:31:12,330 --> 00:31:12,550
Yeah.

440
00:31:13,030 --> 00:31:16,050
We probably estimate at least the legal side of it.

441
00:31:16,150 --> 00:31:18,290
I think we probably could.

442
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:21,750
I mean, the part that I did, the Duke of the Dota

443
00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:24,770
had was the calculation of that may cost more than the actual.

444
00:31:25,290 --> 00:31:26,850
We're trying to gather together.

445
00:31:26,890 --> 00:31:28,450
I'm always trying to get everyone's spin on this.

446
00:31:28,690 --> 00:31:32,670
At some point, are we spending more money to calculate

447
00:31:32,670 --> 00:31:34,450
than we actually are if we see.

448
00:31:34,570 --> 00:31:35,610
If we can't remember what the next animation.

449
00:31:36,670 --> 00:31:37,950
I don't know, that's my guess.

450
00:31:38,370 --> 00:31:41,050
Sometimes I know we try to get things dialed in

451
00:31:41,050 --> 00:31:41,830
in a way.

452
00:31:42,110 --> 00:31:43,530
I mean, how much time it get dialed in?

453
00:31:43,650 --> 00:31:46,710
Oh, that was a $30 issue that we spent four hours on.

454
00:31:46,770 --> 00:31:46,950
Right?

455
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:48,570
I don't know.

456
00:31:48,730 --> 00:31:52,150
Rob, I could go through the Liberty Square file

457
00:31:52,150 --> 00:31:54,250
and see what I charged to it.

458
00:31:54,250 --> 00:31:57,230
that may be a decent way for least to go up with them.

459
00:31:57,490 --> 00:32:03,330
A lot of us start phone calls and reminders and, you know, they actually are reviewing

460
00:32:03,330 --> 00:32:09,850
of the documents, you can do in a block and get a pretty rough estimate, but I was getting

461
00:32:09,850 --> 00:32:16,470
called from Bond Council and Peter Caron and, of course, finding back and forth, that doesn't

462
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:17,230
normally happen.

463
00:32:18,110 --> 00:32:19,210
So can I make a suggestion?

464
00:32:19,210 --> 00:32:49,130
I mean, I mean, I think what might be helpful then is either a next, it means if the committee wants to proceed with this concept of charging a fee, that we do a correct suggestion, we try to come up with a some kind of estimate that we all will agree and we bring an ordinance back next to the next meeting, discuss the fee, discuss the ordinance and decide whether that's the direction we want to go or modify, or how close we think it captures an adequate fee.

465
00:32:49,210 --> 00:32:54,130
So we're not, I mean, if we charge $100, we'd all agree that's

466
00:32:54,130 --> 00:32:55,090
woefully inadequate.

467
00:32:55,870 --> 00:32:58,590
I think we charge $100,000, we'd all say that's woefully

468
00:32:58,590 --> 00:33:01,830
over-cost, but see if we can come up with a number like Craig did

469
00:33:01,830 --> 00:33:04,030
that we could say, here's what we're basically based on.

470
00:33:04,550 --> 00:33:05,850
And then maybe we test it.

471
00:33:05,850 --> 00:33:08,630
Like you were suggesting to see is it doesn't need to be modified

472
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:10,070
before it goes to the council.

473
00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:11,270
I don't know.

474
00:33:13,060 --> 00:33:14,100
I think it makes sense.

475
00:33:14,780 --> 00:33:18,560
If Craig is, is, would you would you consider this a typical

476
00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:25,160
situation if you went back and looked at this most recent case, or was it at a typical

477
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,160
because there was more back and forth?

478
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,820
I generally, they're all pretty much the same.

479
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:38,340
This was a little bit more back and forth because I hadn't worked with this particular

480
00:33:38,340 --> 00:33:43,980
bond council before and Peter was concerned about when it was going to go to council and

481
00:33:45,060 --> 00:33:47,820
then I got an email that said they're not going forward.

482
00:33:47,820 --> 00:33:50,800
So we never did take it to council.

483
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,900
I'd make a motion to ask Craig to come up with an estimate for the next every

484
00:33:59,900 --> 00:34:00,920
you committee meeting.

485
00:34:02,220 --> 00:34:05,360
We want someone to draft an ordinance.

486
00:34:07,580 --> 00:34:09,140
Mr. Chair, I've already done that.

487
00:34:09,240 --> 00:34:17,000
I can provide a copy of that with the next agenda and as a discussion or after so.

488
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:23,020
Yeah, okay, so we have a motion and a second. All in favor.

489
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:24,560
Hi.

490
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:25,040
Hi.

491
00:34:25,580 --> 00:34:26,180
Any post?

492
00:34:27,540 --> 00:34:36,640
Okay, that passes. We'll look for an ordinance and an estimate for our next meeting and we'll review it and vote on that.

493
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:37,380
Have a discussion.

494
00:34:38,420 --> 00:34:41,000
All right, moving on to item 4.5.

495
00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:43,720
Salt Lake City.

496
00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:52,220
It's a solid city or a solid county portfolio, Tepra, Jacob Carleton from Gilmourn Bell.

497
00:35:01,740 --> 00:35:07,880
Yeah, thanks, happy to be here. And this kind of goes along with your last discussion you just had, but we're

498
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:17,780
bond council on this particular deal. These bonds are being issued through the public finance authority, which is a bond issue, or based out of Wisconsin.

499
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:26,020
And this is for three separate multi-family housing projects, all of them are located within Salt Lake County.

500
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:39,260
I mean, they're all with in separate municipalities, which is why we've approached the county today rather than going through each separate municipality for each of these particular projects.

501
00:35:40,340 --> 00:35:44,280
Anyway, so yeah, so we're just coming before you today.

502
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:49,500
And I'm in the hopes that Salt Lake County would be willing to hold a Tefer hearing for this particular project.

503
00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:58,000
I would note the Keith Warburden is here if there's any specific questions about the project themselves.

504
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:04,060
These are representing the developer, but happy to go into any additional detail about that.

505
00:36:04,060 --> 00:36:11,140
It sounds like you're familiar with the tech for a notice and process, but happy to answer any particular questions if there are any.

506
00:36:12,340 --> 00:36:20,980
So what's your timing on this? Can can it wait until a little later like toward the end of June or is it? Are you now in a rush?

507
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:28,140
I know there's still maybe I'll kick it over to Keith on this when I know there's still a few things we're waiting for.

508
00:36:28,660 --> 00:36:32,140
I don't know Keith if you have an updated kind of.

509
00:36:32,140 --> 00:36:36,160
We're always in a rush, as developers have said.

510
00:36:37,380 --> 00:36:40,240
We have to do a few things with very city.

511
00:36:40,460 --> 00:36:43,500
The world of my life will sort of try to get back to us.

512
00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:44,760
First we can do it.

513
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,560
And so we really like to try to have this,

514
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,180
you know, font and answer, where you go sometimes,

515
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,500
or to have a switch versus the line.

516
00:36:57,130 --> 00:37:00,390
Yeah, I mean, we have a, you know,

517
00:37:00,890 --> 00:37:04,450
the midyear budget coming up and as long as it can

518
00:37:04,450 --> 00:37:11,950
wait until after the tenth I think that the council staff can be accommodating. If you

519
00:37:11,950 --> 00:37:16,050
could wait until the 24th that would be better for us frankly because we do have a public

520
00:37:16,050 --> 00:37:21,950
hearing on the 17th for the mid-year budget but that's later in the afternoon at six.

521
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:27,400
Well,

522
00:37:34,820 --> 00:37:42,960
we're waiting what municipalities are these projects and I heard Murray said he Murray mid-velle in Salt Lake City.

523
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,660
So, I'll go ahead and make a motion that we can forward this based on the time.

524
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:09,820
If, by some happens, stands our process, Doug tells, and we have an ordinance in place associated with a fee, we can sort that out, it seems unlikely.

525
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:17,720
for the record, the feedback from Dave Delquadro about the council's upcoming calendar

526
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:22,020
suggests that the 24th might be a great day if it needs to be earlier.

527
00:38:22,420 --> 00:38:25,940
Quarterly the council's meeting throughout June, and we can find a time to do that, but

528
00:38:25,940 --> 00:38:30,100
I'll make a motion on behalf of the committee, particularly since this is a multid jurisdictional

529
00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:30,840
project.

530
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,980
It does seem appropriate that the county would provide a hearing as we've done for other

531
00:38:35,980 --> 00:38:42,000
somewhere we situated in the past and that we'll forward it on to the policy makers, so that'd be my motion.

532
00:38:45,140 --> 00:38:50,540
Kate, do we have a second? Second. All righty. All in favor?

533
00:38:51,700 --> 00:38:55,900
Aye. Aye. Aye. Any post? Kate, that passes.

534
00:38:59,080 --> 00:38:59,980
Other committee business?

535
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,680
All right. Seeing none. I'll move forward on a German.

536
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,860
I need a motion for that. Okay. We are adjourned. Thanks, everybody.

537
00:39:14,860 --> 00:39:15,280
Thank you, Chair.