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Hey everybody, we've still got about a minute, but I'm going to go ahead and get the recording started, so our online folks can join the meeting.

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Recording in progress.

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Thank

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you for that. Good evening everyone. Welcome. We are grateful to have all of you

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here in the chambers, as well as those who are joining at home. Just as a matter of reminder,

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if you are going to speak during tonight's General Citizen comment, we do ask you to fill

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a blue card there in the back. You'll hand those to Mr. Frado and when we come to that portion

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of the meeting we'll be happy to hear from you. We do not take that public comment until

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at least 6 o'clock or later and we find a place in our agenda to naturally close one agenda item.

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We'll do public comment and then we will continue with our agenda. So just give it everyone a

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heads up on that. We like to begin our meetings with a prayer and a pledge so I'm looking for

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volunteer this evening to offer our prayer.

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Mr. President, please.

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Our dear is definitely Father.

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We are so grateful that we have been able to gather together this evening.

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We thank you for the opportunity.

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We have to serve and represent our Sandy citizens.

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Please help us all to listen and understand the things that are being presented.

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Be able to find the best solutions for our residents and our employees.

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We are so grateful for this amazing country.

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we live in. We love the and we save these things. And even if I son, Jesus Christ,

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amen.

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Thank you. We'll all stand, please. We'll recite the pledge.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the real public for which

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dance, one nation under God, in the visible, with liberty and justice for us.

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Thank you. Thank you for joining us in the pledge. It's always nice to hear multiple voices. So we would like to begin with introductions. We'll start on this side of the room and with our council staff and make our way around.

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Thank you, Madam Chair. My name is Dustin Fredo. I'm at the city council office. There are a couple other council staff members in the back of the room.

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Uh, Justin Swanson and Matt Perry and then Mr. Cadel, let me know they'll be just a few minutes late this evening.

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Chris Edwards with the Council Office.

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Chris Nicole, District 3.

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Cindy Sharkey at large.

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Brooke Christensen, District 1.

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Marcie Houseman, District 4.

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Allison Stroud, District 2.

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Brooke Dysuza at large.

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A mayor Monica Zaltansky.

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Martin Jetson, Chief Administrative Officer. Good to be back.

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Thank you and welcome back.

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Madam Chair.

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Council member de Kaiser.

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Let me know that he'll be probably about an hour late this evening.

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Thank you.

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We will keep an eye out for him.

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So we're going to jump right into our agenda to see.

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We're starting with a special recognition.

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Turn it over to you for that.

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And then we'll resume.

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We're excited about this.

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Okay.

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Thank you Mayor and Council for your time tonight on your agenda for this opportunity to recognize Barbara Dumbledore, our Deputy City Recorder.

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I am here not only as a City Recorder and Barbara's supervisor, but I'm here also as a Vice President for the Utah Municipal Clerk Association.

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And we have Alicia Fairborn, who's our Secretary.

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So tonight we represent the Utah Municipal Clerks Association and our partnership with the International Institute of Municipal Clerks.

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The mission of our organization is to provide our members with educational and networking support to promote positive professional interaction with the elected officials staff in the general public.

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to enhance the awareness and value of the Municipal Clerk and Recorder Preset profession.

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Our International Organization offers two certification designations.

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The Certified Municipal Clerk designation and the Master Municipal Clerk designation.

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The programs to achieve these designations are administered here locally by the Utah Municipal Clerk Association.

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And we have a partnership with Southern Utah University that helped us with those educational opportunities that we meet.

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Barbara has completed the requirements to obtain a certified municipal clerk designation.

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To attain this, she has to actively work in a municipal function doing city recorder duties.

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earned 50 points of related to work experience, complete university level

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coursework to earn a minimum of 60 educational points, and it's 1 point, you get 1

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point for every two hours of class time, so this 60 points reflects at least 120

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hours of class time. As you can imagine, this takes some years to attain, but we're

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fortunate that you guys in the mayor recognize and

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I can't remember where is this thing.

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Encourage and support improving the employees skills and knowledge through continuing education

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and professional development opportunities.

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So thank you for that.

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It's our privilege now to honor honor honor honor with this award tonight.

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recognizing her professional accomplishments.

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We're going to get one from every angle, guys. I count five cameras out

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there.

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All right. It's always nice to start with special recognition.

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And thank you again, Barbara, for all of your work and service in our city.

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All right, we will move on to the first item of your informational items.

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This is the City Council's receiving presentation on the General Management

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Appalachian Study, just that I believe you are leading us in this.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Madam Chair and Council.

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Joining us tonight is our representatives from Matrix Consulting and I'll introduce them

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in a second but just a reminder council that during the end of 2025 it was time for the second

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management study that we conducted under the policy that was adopted by the council. So we went out to RFP

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first study of our public utilities department and selected nature's consulting to help us with that.

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Once they were selected myself and a team from public utilities then included Tom Ward, Richard Benham

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Scott Ellis served this executive committee to kind of guide and assist in this study.

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All that matrix explained their methodology process and a study that they did but I just

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wanted to give a quick thank you to public utilities staff that were excellent throughout the

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process. I includes the executive team but also all of the others who participated in the

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data collection and interviews and anything else that was needed in addition to thanks to

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So the study was unique for a couple different reasons.

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There were some challenges that came up.

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They were unforeseen regarding the proposal of the merger.

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And they were incredibly responsive to those challenges.

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And so I wanted to quickly thank them.

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So joining us tonight, we have Jen Winter and Amy

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Maybe from Matrix Consulting.

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I'll turn the time over to them.

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Let them introduce themselves and walk you through their study.

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Great. Thank you, Justin. Can everybody hear me?

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Okay,

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I am going to share our presentation tonight.

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So first of all, thank you for having us.

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We have greatly enjoyed working with the city with Justin

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and with the staff of public utilities throughout

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this general management and operations study.

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So my name is Jen Winter.

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I've been serving as the Project Manager for the study.

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My background is in both in the private sector,

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serving with multiple consulting engineering firms

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and also within the public sector as a former city engineer and public works director.

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I have with me today Amy Maybe, who is a manager with major consulting.

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She has spent most of her career working for Utah municipalities.

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Most recently as a city administrator and pleasant view and also as a policy analyst

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with Ogden City.

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So really quickly what we're going to go through tonight, we want to touch on the

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in approach. We're going to look at the department at a glance, talk about some of the,

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what we saw from a high level. We'll look at some of the key findings and then we'll also get into some of the findings and the specific recommendations within each of the areas.

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And then we'll close out with with our thoughts on where to start and what the high priorities.

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We would recommend for the department. So when I start off a little bit and talk about some of the goals that were provided to us by Council and staff for the city.

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So we want to look at the management structures, staffing levels, and resource allocation

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of public utilities, assess the department against national investment practices, and also

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benchmark it.

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Against similar sized, pure cities within a state of Utah. We looked at some of the facilities equipment and technology that was in place. We identified critical issues and opportunities to strengthen service efficiency and financial sustainability and also to deliver clear actionable recommendations to guide the department forward. So how we approached meeting those goals and objectives. The project was performed in three primary phases.

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So the first phase was an existing conditions assessment.

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And within that phase, we came on site to conduct interviews.

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We did facility tours, looked at some field observations.

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We'd interviews with leadership, including supervisors and some staff,

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and also data collection.

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So a lot of what we do, we really tell that we are a data base analysis.

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So we collect a lot of data and information on staffing, work practices,

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as metrics, policies, everything that the department is currently doing.

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The second phase is the primary part of the analysis that we conduct.

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And within the analysis phase, we look at workloads, staffing levels, work practices,

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our technology is utilized within the department, and really what the operational efficiency

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looks like.

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And then we take a look at the organizational structure to see if the organizational structure

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in place is effective in allowing the department to deliver the services.

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Finally, the last phase is the findings and recommendations.

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So the final report incorporates all of the, all of the interim analysis and deliverables that we have done.

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It provides the recommendations for improvement and also in a prioritized implementation plan for how to proceed with those recommendations.

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So,

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when we do a study like this, it's important to look at what the opportunities for improvement are but it's also important to find the key strengths of the department and looking at the public utilities department.

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We found that there were multiple strengths, a few of which we've listed here, the water conservation standards that consider resource limitations and provide education.

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And we found it really a dedicated staff and a strong organizational health and a full sort

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of safety and regulatory compliance.

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That was a theme that we heard over and over again from staff infrastructure master planning

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when you're looking at a utility department that relies on rates and rate fears that

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master planning to understand where our necessary improvements and how do we prioritize them.

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Over actually when I was saying that there was a very

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priceless dedicated staff within all of the units and the departments that we talked to.

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There was also, of course, obviously, opportunities to improve and to be better.

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And a few of these will touch on in more detail, but just to highlight them,

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is a little bit of inconsistency and work management and the use of that technology.

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And it's really critical that consistency of that technology is important as you get into being able to make

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data-driven decision, you have to be able to

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compare Apple to Apple's to be able to implement

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some improvements in decisions.

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The operational efficiency is constrained by some outdated

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and submissive standard operating procedures.

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So some units were better than others

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at having standard operating procedures.

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Most units had these informally.

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It was just how well they were document and how often they're updated

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to be able to really allow efficiency in training staff

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on boarding staff and bringing in new staff.

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We looked at kind of some targeted investments in technology.

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Technology is really a challenge that we see across the board a lot of times in public

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work.

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Some utilities operations.

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We have very fueled oriented staff in this profession for a reason they like to be outside

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their doors and there's some critical steps to making sure that technology can be utilized

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as effectively as possible and we'll get into those in a minute.

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So, from a high level, the assessment at the land.

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So we broke down the study into three primary functional areas.

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So we looked at leadership and administration.

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And this looks at not just the leadership, but also any of the best practices that apply

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to the department as a whole.

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So anything that would look to cover the entire department not just those in leadership

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positions.

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We looked at over 40 best management practices that we benchmark the

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organization against, and we came up with just under 60 total recommendations within the areas.

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So we want to get into a little bit of the detail of what we found within each of those areas.

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So, for each functional area, we'll talk a little bit about what we examined what our key findings were and what some of our top recommendations are.

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So, the first functional area is leadership and administration. And we really found within that leadership and administration area, strong governance, critical master planning, but there are some gaps in data documentation and some proactive communication.

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So, what we examined in leadership and administration, we looked at the organization of the department as a whole.

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So, as a whole, so is there adequate spans of control, are there, you know, in equities in supervisory spans of control,

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where maybe you have one supervisor overseeing two people and another that has 25 people.

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So, we looked for things like that in the span of control.

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We also looked at the impact of the public work merger just in touch on that,

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But that did come about after we started this study.

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So we did take into consideration of how that murder

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might impact any organizational recommendations

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we were making.

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We looked at management and administration.

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So again, those policy manuals, how those are in place,

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what do those standard operating procedures look like?

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What do the workflows look like,

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both within the department and in the overlap,

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like in the case of procurement workflows?

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And what does that overlap look like between finance

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and public utilities staff. We looked at communication in coordination, both internally and externally,

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so internally within the department, between divisions, between departments, and then also

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that external communication. What does the website look like? What does the media coordination

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look like? We looked at a utility planning and management, so this really focuses on the areas

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of the interlocal agreements, which is the right setting and right policies look like, any

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reserves and how is the department position to be able to go after grant funding.

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And then finally within this chapter, we looked at asset management within any public

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works and utilities organization, asset management is really critical to efficient and effective

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operations. So we looked at the steps of asset management that were in place and where there is

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some still some opportunities. So some of the key findings within the leadership and administration

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area where the, some of the strengths, where the governments and that regional resiliency,

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the, the in place interlocal agreements, the active advisory board, the diverse, the, the, the diversified water supply.

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That infrastructure master planning that I'll, I'll come back to in several cases. It's really important to be able to stay up to date on a master plan that understands the criticality and the risk of the infrastructure that you're maintaining.

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And then that organizational health.

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So within the leadership groups, within the units,

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between units, there was a lot of collaboration

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and coordination and some formalized leadership

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training that is taking place.

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Under the opportunities for improvement,

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we talked about that use of the work management technology.

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So really able to be able to make data driven decision

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to be able to tie what those master planings

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or tell you, needs to come that information from the field.

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So, you know, how are we prioritizing our work?

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Is our preventive maintenance scheduled within the asset management system?

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Are we able to accomplish what we set out to do?

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Are we reporting on that?

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And can we clearly communicate what we're doing?

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And can we tell the public the elected officials,

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such as yourselves, how we are doing?

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We talked about a little bit on some of the missing

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of standard operating for seizures and how crews are using those and operating, public communication

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is largely reactive.

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So we found some ways where the department could increase their proactive communication

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with the public to be able to be a little bit more vocal and proactive in telling the community.

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Here's what we're working on.

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Here's why we're doing things in overarching, outfacing communication.

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And that we looked at the kind of a lack of formal reserve and rate benchmarking policies.

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So to the actual recommendations within each of these areas, so under the organization,

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with several recommendations that looked at a deputy manager appointments and specific

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of inconsistency and confusion on who is responsible for what?

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And when some of these projects come about, the coordination comes about who is in charge.

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So we looked at kind of designating people to be assigned certain functions and programs.

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We talked about the policy manual updating those standard operating.

247
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In the budgetary documents, there are some performance information and nothing else in there that is largely an accounting of what we're accomplishing.

248
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But there's not really a tie to what is the goal.

249
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So, you know, in order for a metric to really be useful,

250
00:25:19,420 --> 00:25:21,180
there should be a goal tied to it.

251
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So if we are looking at exercising all of our water wells annually,

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are we accomplishing that goal?

253
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If you tell me we're doing 200 of them, I'm not sure what that means.

254
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Are we doing all of them or are we doing 10% of them within that year?

255
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So we gave some recommendations on really tying those metrics

256
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to some goals to be able to a little bit better show

257
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the accomplishments of the departments.

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Within the asset management system with the city

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works software, looking at department-wide adoption.

260
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So there was an inconsistency in how the units had adopted

261
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,060
the city works platform and how they were using it

262
00:25:59,060 --> 00:26:01,780
to plan, schedule, and complete their daily work

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was.

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And looking at developing with some of the recent additions

265
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in staffing within that area within the GIS

266
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and asset management, there

267
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has been a really an increase in the technology capabilities of what the department can do.

268
00:26:18,420 --> 00:26:24,260
So looking at increasing the automated dashboards, so that way, different levels can have

269
00:26:24,260 --> 00:26:25,860
different information at their fingertips.

270
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:30,800
So what the director might want to see from a high level is different, from what a manager is

271
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going to want to see, from what a field, a pro leader is going to want to see on those dashboards.

272
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So as you go down those levels, you need more specific information specific to the work

273
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that that my unit is doing.

274
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So creating those dashboards.

275
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And then also with that, creating some of those external dashboards

276
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so that information is available on the website

277
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and to the public as well.

278
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Within communication and engagement,

279
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we have six different specific recommendations

280
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around communication that, again,

281
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go back to the information on that website

282
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and looking at what is being provided

283
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,360
by the dashboards and that advisory committee.

284
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So, one of the recommendations we did make is that advisory board should really move back to City Hall, so it's a little bit more visible and easily accessible to the public, maybe a little less intimidating to be able to kind of not have to seek out the utilities location to be able to find where that board is meeting.

285
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In the financial and regional governance areas, we also had six recommendations.

286
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Those largely revolved around some of the rate benchmarking reserve and grant policies.

287
00:27:41,540 --> 00:27:46,620
So for instance, while the department certainly does go after grant, they do not really

288
00:27:46,620 --> 00:27:51,480
have a dedicated approach of types of grants, amounts of grants when we're going to do these

289
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,600
in-house, when we're going to ask for a consultant help.

290
00:27:53,600 --> 00:28:15,600
So, a little bit more of a proactive formal approach to some of these areas and then also probably more challenging is taking a look at those interlocal agreements and how do you update and keep those in the best interest of everybody that's involved in those agreements, but certainly more geared towards the city of Sandy.

291
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Within asset management, we have four recommendations and asset management that revolved around

292
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looking at establishing service levels.

293
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So for, again, we're managing an asset, a proactive service level.

294
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What's the service level that we are trying to maintain this asset at?

295
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And then developing work schedules around that.

296
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So in order to do that, we need to understand first what do we have, what does that inventory look like,

297
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what is the condition of it?

298
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and knowing that, then allow us your field staff to be able to input much better information

299
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and then use that information when they're in the field to make sure that the SS that you

300
00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,780
are trying to maintain staff how the the ability and the information to be able to do so.

301
00:29:03,490 --> 00:29:11,530
The second area we looked at was engineering. So we found a few of the recommendations in the engineering

302
00:29:11,530 --> 00:29:17,070
area. Overall, the theme really was that probably their biggest constraint is on that capital

303
00:29:17,070 --> 00:29:23,850
project delivery. So having the staff to be able to deliver what is currently in the five-year

304
00:29:23,850 --> 00:29:32,990
plan, which is $47 projects and worth over $35 million dollars. So 47 projects is a lot for the

305
00:29:32,990 --> 00:29:39,690
number of staff that are currently there. So we looked at some different areas of capital projects,

306
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:44,390
storm water so what does that annual storm water storm water staff storm water

307
00:29:44,390 --> 00:29:49,190
become a much bigger deal and really in all regions across the U.S.

308
00:29:49,310 --> 00:29:54,370
we've seen changes in how storm water is being handled we've seen more intense

309
00:29:55,130 --> 00:29:59,350
fluctuations between periods of drought versus periods of intense rainfall so

310
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:59,950
how are we managed.

311
00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:27,340
We look at the GIS and the asset management staffing, and then what the engineering best practices were. The key findings of what we found is there's really, while there may not be capacity and staff, there is a clear project delivery pipeline of what needs to be done, and in approach of how that's going to be done.

312
00:30:27,340 --> 00:30:33,340
The capital improvement program is based on routinely updated master plans, so instead of

313
00:30:33,340 --> 00:30:39,220
a staff just trying to decide what I think we should be doing, that capital improvement program

314
00:30:39,220 --> 00:30:45,660
is based on those overarching master plans that give you where your most critical needs are.

315
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,920
And then the GIS capability that is in place to support asset management.

316
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Within the opportunities for improvement, then that capital project staffing.

317
00:30:54,620 --> 00:31:02,680
we looked at project delivery and not uncommon to many places we see project delivery is often done

318
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:09,480
through a series of spreadsheets and for, you know, larger organizations that have a larger capital

319
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:16,720
improvement programs and really needing a project management system that allows staff to be able

320
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to manage that portfolio of projects as a whole rather than as as individual projects.

321
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:42,460
Stormwater is not, not all the stormwater workload is currently being captured, I think that workload has continued to increase over recent years, and without a lot of metrics or workload being documented, it's hard to sort of quantify really what is that stormwater workload.

322
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So some of the key recommendations, what we felt the capital project delivery was on

323
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our staff, short-term we didn't recommend staffing what we recommended was really evaluating

324
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what the capacity was within public work to assist with that.

325
00:31:58,620 --> 00:32:02,900
So kind of looking as a whole to see is their capacity for the public works and engineering

326
00:32:02,900 --> 00:32:09,300
staff to be able to help absorb some of the capital project load that is specific to utilities,

327
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:16,320
looking at phasing in some enhanced project management tools so starting a small, which is looking

328
00:32:17,260 --> 00:32:24,200
at some project management overlay and automation that can occur within the Microsoft Excel that's already being used.

329
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:30,640
And then eventually looking at a specific project management software that will help staff be able to deliver those project

330
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:36,960
from a high level, make sure that they're staying on schedule or we deliver them within the budgets where some of our

331
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,100
areas where we're falling behind and be able to mitigate that as early as possible.

332
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:48,000
With the implementation of that software, then it also gives the ability to do some automated

333
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,420
bond and warranty alerts.

334
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,480
We actually recommend that you do this in your asset management software.

335
00:32:52,620 --> 00:32:57,220
A lot of times those engineering projects get closed out, those bonds and that warranty alerts

336
00:32:57,220 --> 00:32:58,900
are still need to be out there and trapped.

337
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:05,920
So a really easy way for staff to be able to stand top of that is to put that as a plan

338
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:12,420
activity within the city works asset management software. Within GIS and asset management,

339
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:20,660
there was a little bit of confusion from staff of kind of what those from operational staff

340
00:33:20,660 --> 00:33:25,720
of, you know, since those the GIS staff currently sit within an engineering of what they're doing.

341
00:33:25,900 --> 00:33:31,040
They really are operational physicians. They certainly assist engineering and creating masks.

342
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:40,240
We also recommended a title chain this often there is confusion in cities of well why do we have GIS staff in IT and we have GIS staff in the department said

343
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:47,540
It's really it's very different of what the staff are doing so when we are recommending asset management staff we really

344
00:33:47,540 --> 00:33:55,120
We typically do recommend that they are GIS people they're it's you know you're not going to find a person that have an asset management

345
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:01,300
technology degree, so the GIS staff are the most competent people to be able to really understand

346
00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:05,400
those asset management softwares and systems, but they have a very different role.

347
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,500
So, instead of that higher level mapping of the city and producing some of that information,

348
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:15,260
they really are mostly focused on the maintenance and the scheduling of work and the dashboards

349
00:34:15,260 --> 00:34:18,580
and the reporting of the work that's being done on your assets.

350
00:34:19,220 --> 00:34:24,620
For work planning and training of a couple of recommendations related to, again, back to that

351
00:34:24,620 --> 00:34:40,580
during water workload of trying to capture and quantify what does that workload look like what is what are those staff spending their time on and then increasing that city works as that management software training to make sure that staff are understanding how to use the information

352
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,140
and be able to put information into the system as well as be able to get it out.

353
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:50,080
And that is usually where we see the shortfall is that we are able to put information into the system.

354
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,160
But really are typically unsure of how to use it to make their decisions.

355
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,640
How to use it to decide what we are going to do next year.

356
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,940
How to use it to decide where our problem is.

357
00:35:00,740 --> 00:35:07,520
We should really be the value of the system of why we want to use an asset management software in the first place.

358
00:35:12,140 --> 00:35:19,500
All right, within the operations area, so within operations generally found that staffing is broadly appropriate.

359
00:35:20,820 --> 00:35:26,140
And the priority is really within data and the consistency of that data collection.

360
00:35:26,140 --> 00:35:26,960
So

361
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what we examined, so we examined each of the unit within operations, so we looked at the workload, the staffing, and the organization within each of the units within the utilities group and then the operational best practices specific to all of operations, but then also within those specific units.

362
00:35:57,260 --> 00:36:05,840
the key findings, so within the strengths of the operational teams, we found that staffing

363
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,920
is broadly appropriate, we're able to keep up with the workload that they're being assigned,

364
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:17,060
a strong safety and culture, effective incident tracking, which is excellent to be able

365
00:36:17,060 --> 00:36:23,520
to say that everybody that we talk to within the levels of the organization could clearly

366
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:29,780
communicate to us what their personal protective equipment gear was, how to use it, where to find

367
00:36:29,780 --> 00:36:37,320
it, all of those things. And adequate facilities and space, there was secure indoor storage

368
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:44,460
for the equipment and by and large crews reported really, you know, commending the city for

369
00:36:44,460 --> 00:36:49,030
providing them with the tools and equipment they needed to be able to do their jobs well.

370
00:36:50,990 --> 00:36:57,390
Opportunities for improvement. Again, is looking at the consistency in how that work is being tracked,

371
00:36:58,010 --> 00:37:04,630
looking at establishing service levels. So, you know, when we're going out to be able to go do maintenance on these assets,

372
00:37:04,690 --> 00:37:11,430
do we know what we're doing? Do we know what we're trying to accomplish within each year on each given asset? What are those service levels?

373
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:19,650
And then consistently tracking information, so looking at, you know, we're tracking the information of how long to take us to do something,

374
00:37:20,590 --> 00:37:26,190
looking at the equipment that we used to be able to do a task, how that information is being employed.

375
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:37,570
So within the different types of work, how we are, how we are accounting for our productivity and our cruise and our equipment should all be done the same to allow for each,

376
00:37:37,570 --> 00:37:42,390
know as you go into those dashboards and roll that information out to make that useful information

377
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:47,930
on the leadership's fingertips when they're trying to make decisions out of how to best

378
00:37:47,930 --> 00:37:54,210
go about the maintenance and use the funds that are available. A little bit of a lack of inventory

379
00:37:54,210 --> 00:37:59,750
management processes and procedures, so I will say that is one thing that we do know was in

380
00:37:59,750 --> 00:38:04,870
process of this. There were some changes in staffing positions and a new person that I come in that

381
00:38:04,870 --> 00:38:10,990
was very diligently working, to be able to change that practice, to be able to really understand

382
00:38:10,990 --> 00:38:16,090
what the inventory was, put some better procedure than place for what that inventory

383
00:38:16,090 --> 00:38:17,950
management looks like.

384
00:38:18,590 --> 00:38:24,450
And then, hydrant testing and flushing and street lighting, or if you're opportunity is on

385
00:38:24,450 --> 00:38:26,630
to touch on a little bit more on the next page.

386
00:38:27,150 --> 00:38:32,310
So within those specific recommendations, we talked about some of that workload data, so looking

387
00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:39,970
the data that goes in there primarily just maintaining staffing, staffing was really adequate across

388
00:38:39,970 --> 00:38:46,290
all of those operational units. There was a recommendation for a service transition, so one

389
00:38:46,290 --> 00:38:52,010
of the areas that is a collaboration between departments is transitioning that hydrant testing

390
00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:57,950
from the fire department to public utilities. A lot of times, you know, there's a phase in approach

391
00:38:57,950 --> 00:39:05,350
So that where the fire department is still involved in that, they have ISO regulations that

392
00:39:05,350 --> 00:39:06,470
they need to need.

393
00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:14,070
But because that, that hydrogen is part of a greater water system, it's really critical that

394
00:39:14,070 --> 00:39:18,630
if the fire department is doing it, that they become certified, that they get their water

395
00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:21,990
certifications to be able to understand the impact of what they're doing on the entire

396
00:39:21,990 --> 00:39:27,790
system or the best practice really is to transition that work to the utilities department.

397
00:39:27,790 --> 00:39:39,150
We do understand that that takes collaboration between departments and that may not be something that can be done in the short term, but that should be the goal long term is to transition that.

398
00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:46,530
Within inventory management, we had a couple of additional recommendations in addition to the general asset management.

399
00:39:46,530 --> 00:39:52,770
And once we had on inventory management procedures and some of the asset management

400
00:39:52,770 --> 00:39:57,470
expectations of those drainage crews, a lot of that work is not really being done

401
00:39:57,470 --> 00:39:59,210
in the asset management system at all.

402
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:23,060
That was still paper-based. So a recommendation to use those tools that are available to you. We had five recommendations in the areas of looking at some of those cost of service and infrastructure planning models, and then also a couple of recommendations within that street light programs of looking at a street lighting policy.

403
00:40:23,060 --> 00:40:30,240
across recovery framework and a multi-year replacement plan to transition to elite devils.

404
00:40:33,650 --> 00:40:36,930
So where's the full city works adoption?

405
00:40:37,230 --> 00:40:41,690
It was clearly a theme of making sure that all of the operational teams are using the

406
00:40:41,690 --> 00:40:46,410
tools and technology that are available to them and are using them consistently updating

407
00:40:46,410 --> 00:40:51,230
the policy manual and some of those standard operating procedures, where there are gaps

408
00:40:51,230 --> 00:40:53,830
and those are where they are perhaps out of date

409
00:40:53,830 --> 00:40:56,590
and just need to be refreshed a little bit.

410
00:40:56,830 --> 00:40:58,630
Looking at some of the information,

411
00:40:59,070 --> 00:41:01,310
not the GIS and asset management team

412
00:41:01,310 --> 00:41:03,950
has done taking some of that information public facing

413
00:41:03,950 --> 00:41:06,690
to be able to kind of to increase the information

414
00:41:06,690 --> 00:41:08,370
that's available to the public.

415
00:41:09,170 --> 00:41:12,670
Looking at the cost of service methodologies,

416
00:41:13,530 --> 00:41:17,590
what those policies are in relying on the American Water Works

417
00:41:17,590 --> 00:41:24,330
Association, the EWWA, rate benchmarking to assist in that, and then taking a look at

418
00:41:24,330 --> 00:41:29,550
that capital project management capacity across public works to really develop a plan

419
00:41:29,550 --> 00:41:34,930
for how do those capital projects get delivered over the next five years? Is there a capacity

420
00:41:34,930 --> 00:41:39,750
internal within the city or will additional staffing be necessary to be able to do that?

421
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:48,420
So overall, our team really believes that these recommendations will help the department.

422
00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:52,260
there were a lot of strengths identify there are a lot of things at the department where the

423
00:41:52,260 --> 00:41:58,860
department is meeting best practices and doing things very well and we feel like the opportunities

424
00:41:58,860 --> 00:42:04,980
and the recommendations that we've made will help the department help US city leaders continue

425
00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:11,920
to meet the high service standards for the communities utilities needs as a city progresses.

426
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,820
So with that I will just say that we really enjoyed working with the city and with the staff and

427
00:42:17,820 --> 00:42:25,060
having this opportunity to be able to work with everyone in the Sandy City and we will

428
00:42:25,060 --> 00:42:26,900
open it up for any questions or discussion.

429
00:42:29,420 --> 00:42:35,360
Thank you so much for that, Jen and Amy. I will turn to colleagues. What questions do

430
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,500
we have? And I hope before we do that, I do want to acknowledge Mr. DeKaiser has joined us

431
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:41,960
online. Welcome. Did you want to introduce yourself quickly?

432
00:42:43,820 --> 00:42:48,740
Thank you, Madam Chair and I apologize for being late, but my name is Erin DeKaiser. I represent

433
00:42:49,940 --> 00:42:51,060
Thank you.

434
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:51,540
All right.

435
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:55,020
Mr. Erky?

436
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,760
Thank you for this report.

437
00:43:01,060 --> 00:43:05,660
It's a, yours is a really short presentation and consideration of all the information

438
00:43:05,660 --> 00:43:07,720
you provided us in the report.

439
00:43:08,980 --> 00:43:13,960
I really just want to give a giant pat on the back to public utilities.

440
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:30,000
In both of the management studies that we have received so far, I'm very gratified to have gotten the sense that I've gotten from these two is that we are doing very, very, very well.

441
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:38,860
And that is especially important to recognize public utilities for that because they're in

442
00:43:38,860 --> 00:43:39,820
enterprise fund.

443
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:45,540
There is high expectation that they will balance their own budgets and make the revenues

444
00:43:45,540 --> 00:43:47,240
and the expenses work.

445
00:43:47,740 --> 00:43:51,620
And we'll be looking at other departments and already have that are part of the general fund

446
00:43:51,620 --> 00:43:54,300
and get to draw on the pool of general fund revenues.

447
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,260
And that is not true for public utilities.

448
00:43:57,260 --> 00:44:06,400
So what I'm reading here is that we are doing an excellent job, there are some tweaks and they're probably going to be helpful.

449
00:44:08,060 --> 00:44:14,560
And so there are some really good recommendations here. It sounds nice.

450
00:44:15,060 --> 00:44:18,580
And a good time to maybe implement that.

451
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:31,580
I did read with interest in the full report about one of the drawbacks, and this is based

452
00:44:31,580 --> 00:44:44,050
on our partnerships, and this also kind of, this kind of measures with the Council's

453
00:44:44,050 --> 00:44:44,950
responsibility.

454
00:44:47,370 --> 00:44:52,690
It talks about the fact that I see this, there's not a good linkage between

455
00:44:52,690 --> 00:44:59,950
the cost of service rate, methodologies, and some of that is our fault, right? We have...

456
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,360
We've really had some difficulties trying to find the exact right, right, rate structure.

457
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:11,080
And we know that pooab is made recommendations that haven't always been implemented.

458
00:45:12,500 --> 00:45:18,680
There's also some discussion about Metro, and this has come up amongst council members as well.

459
00:45:20,380 --> 00:45:25,640
This relationship works well for us in terms of the ability to access water,

460
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:34,040
But it also imposes costs on us and so there's some discussion in here too about looking

461
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:38,880
at those contracts and it's something I know that Council members have brought up is there

462
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:46,920
to wait to reduce overhead or are we where we are and there's nothing to fix there but I like

463
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:51,800
the fact that it brought that up it's something that the Council has questioned as well and

464
00:45:51,800 --> 00:46:01,020
It's a part of this report, and so I realize that when public utilities hasn't completely

465
00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:07,720
implemented the rate strategies, it's in part because we haven't approved them or we've

466
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:12,560
given, as a council, we've given an indication back that we want to pull back.

467
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,560
And so I know that public utility has been constrained by the city council.

468
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:24,480
But I do, I just want to give you guys a pat on the back, I want to recognize you for such a great report.

469
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:41,580
Not only are you an enterprise fund, but another thing that occurred to me when I was reading this is, you're probably the only department where your infrastructure that you're responsible for is buried.

470
00:46:41,580 --> 00:46:47,500
it's not visible. So unlike streets, you can't sit there and watch or parks, you can't sit there

471
00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:52,740
and watch the degradation and decide exactly when you have to make a capital improvement.

472
00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:02,840
So there's unpredictabilities. Your income is completely unpredictable. If it's a wet summer,

473
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,520
you're going to sell less water. If it's a dry summer, you're going to sell more.

474
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:14,340
And so in terms of preventive maintenance, that is pretty darn hard to figure out with any

475
00:47:14,340 --> 00:47:19,180
exactness when you can't see when all of your infrastructure is buried.

476
00:47:20,260 --> 00:47:23,960
And so I think you guys do a phenomenal job.

477
00:47:24,060 --> 00:47:30,480
I think this report says that I'm proud of what you do and I'll be looking forward to hearing

478
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:35,440
what you think about this report and whether you think there's some good ideas to implement

479
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:40,280
here. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Nichol did I see your hand there?

480
00:47:40,820 --> 00:47:40,820
Yep.

481
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:49,420
So just a quick question about asset management. Does that, is that like the

482
00:47:50,180 --> 00:47:54,480
materials, nothing bold to type things, is that what you're talking about, and does

483
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:55,420
that include fleet?

484
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,380
So when we're, in this context, when we're talking about asset management,

485
00:48:02,380 --> 00:48:07,640
we're talking about the, the infrastructure to be maintained. So that is primarily

486
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,880
looking at your water pipes, your valves, your hydrants, your storm sort of infrastructure.

487
00:48:12,700 --> 00:48:18,560
So looking at the, um, really the underground, primarily underground infrastructure that

488
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,120
the department is responsible for maintaining.

489
00:48:20,620 --> 00:48:20,840
Okay.

490
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:21,880
Thanks.

491
00:48:25,230 --> 00:48:26,090
Any other questions?

492
00:48:29,310 --> 00:48:30,970
I will jump to mine.

493
00:48:32,210 --> 00:48:33,770
I echo what's been shared.

494
00:48:34,030 --> 00:48:40,510
I think the value of these management studies is, uh, well first, acknowledging the extraordinary

495
00:48:40,510 --> 00:48:41,730
effort that happens.

496
00:48:41,730 --> 00:48:46,510
So thank you to our consultants, but also thank you to all of those involved in the entire process.

497
00:48:47,410 --> 00:48:52,350
These strengths and opportunities would not come to life without participation in engagement.

498
00:48:52,510 --> 00:48:54,310
So I really appreciate that.

499
00:48:54,730 --> 00:48:59,790
And then just echoing what we've said previously, there's so much value in the management studies.

500
00:48:59,830 --> 00:49:03,330
I'm grateful that as the City Council we continue to invest in these.

501
00:49:03,330 --> 00:49:30,510
I think the presentation is delivered and then it's kind of what do we do with it and what kind of a roadmap does this provide us with and how do we shine a spotlight on the things that are working I think sometimes and this is true in all industries I believe we are very quick to jump to oh my goodness all these opportunities these things we need to tweak and fix and all of that and we don't necessarily slow down and celebrate

502
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:37,730
Look at all that we are getting right, and I think that's what you were really emphasizing, and both of you, you know,

503
00:49:37,850 --> 00:49:42,910
Jen and Amy, I know that you were as well, like, always starting with, here's, here's the strengths,

504
00:49:43,210 --> 00:49:47,010
and so definitely hope that we will shine a spotlight on those things.

505
00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:51,350
The wondering that I have, and I, I feel like, as you went through the presentation,

506
00:49:51,630 --> 00:49:55,390
there was a context you added that answered a few of the questions I prepared.

507
00:49:55,390 --> 00:49:59,950
One, I did not fully hear you unpack and...

508
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:29,980
I know it might seem minor, but I'd love to just hear a little bit more about that. Two of the recommendations, sort of, transferred some of of the work across department lines. So, hydrant testing, you are recommending moving from fire to public utilities. I know when the presentation you mentioned some of that, like share that shared ownership. And then the full cost recovery for street lights. So, can you clarify who owns those transitions?

509
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:37,320
what is that cost and and I know this I know this study is complex because it was

510
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:42,380
initiated before the merger was under consideration and then announced and

511
00:50:43,220 --> 00:50:48,400
and perhaps this sort of fell to not be in a thing but I would just love to

512
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:53,840
hear either if you elaborate a little bit on that. Sure I could start I think

513
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:59,720
that transition of the maintenance of the water system being done by the

514
00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:07,720
So what are utility is going to have to be a city, you know, a department head collaboration.

515
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,220
So that isn't something that, you know, public works as public works and utilities has

516
00:51:13,220 --> 00:51:14,540
still responsibility over.

517
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,380
So some of those that are interdepartment, all we generally acknowledge in the study that that

518
00:51:19,380 --> 00:51:26,100
is interdepartmental coordination, we, you know, we would assign ownership to that still

519
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:31,940
the department that we were working with and studying with acknowledgement that this is going

520
00:51:31,940 --> 00:51:38,340
to take collaboration from other departments and possibly, you know, city leadership to make

521
00:51:38,340 --> 00:51:46,040
that happen. I think within that street lighting fund that that cost of service is also

522
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:52,060
can be held within the department. So, looking at specifically, you know, what is that cost of service

523
00:51:52,060 --> 00:51:59,800
model, looking at a more detailed plan of how do we, how do we complete those upgrades.

524
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:04,360
Any user anything that you would like to add on the street landing piece of it?

525
00:52:04,780 --> 00:52:09,380
I actually wanted to add something on the other piece with the fire department.

526
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:22,040
And it's just the consideration that there's immense coordination when those types of

527
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:26,000
and so it's almost easier to transition that to a singular department.

528
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:29,200
So that's part of the reasoning behind that recommendation.

529
00:52:30,540 --> 00:52:32,600
I didn't have anything specific on the street lights.

530
00:52:32,980 --> 00:52:39,580
Just I know there is a big need to make a transition to a plan long-term, especially

531
00:52:39,580 --> 00:52:44,760
as the city continues to have more aging assets and transition to that.

532
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:47,510
Thank you.

533
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:56,970
Another question, thinking about the workload data, and I saw, of course, that you emphasize

534
00:52:56,970 --> 00:53:02,050
that in several different ways, ensuring that we are thinking differently and perhaps

535
00:53:02,050 --> 00:53:07,370
more strategically about data, what would you say is a realistic timeline, where we could

536
00:53:07,370 --> 00:53:17,010
achieve a full year of clean systems, standard operating procedures that translate into really

537
00:53:17,010 --> 00:53:19,430
clean workload data.

538
00:53:20,690 --> 00:53:25,850
Yeah, I think for where you guys are currently sitting, that is a fairly quick transition.

539
00:53:27,090 --> 00:53:32,470
So I would say you are sitting ahead of a lot of the municipalities we work with and that

540
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:39,230
You have the Office staff, those DIA, your engineering staff, those DIA, SNS, and management staff,

541
00:53:39,470 --> 00:53:45,970
that the capability to be able to make some recommendations and be able to quickly look

542
00:53:45,970 --> 00:53:51,350
at what is already in that system and use what we've done in the report as a starting point

543
00:53:51,350 --> 00:53:56,550
or identifying where those inconsistencies are and then within the next three to six months

544
00:53:56,550 --> 00:54:00,510
making that shift in how we're capturing the data.

545
00:54:00,510 --> 00:54:05,010
So I would say within three to six months, you should be able to really shift

546
00:54:05,010 --> 00:54:11,670
to capturing more consistent data, so then within 18 months, you would have a full year

547
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:15,950
of better data. You're on a really good starting point to be able to do that, so I think it's

548
00:54:15,950 --> 00:54:24,470
a pretty minimal effort to be able to do that. Excellent. Thank you. And then I know it was mentioned

549
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:30,850
are in our meeting that there are still some additional hours perhaps to be filled.

550
00:54:31,370 --> 00:54:36,070
I know we'll be talking about that in the future, but I'm wondering I have and this might be

551
00:54:36,070 --> 00:54:42,970
for for department has as well, but I'm wondering I'm having I felt that there was a lot of

552
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:49,810
actionable next steps when we did the fire station or the fire department, I should say

553
00:54:49,810 --> 00:54:59,950
management study, we were sort of gifted with this hierarchy of needs, so to speak, and of all of the...

554
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:11,220
Recommendations that were provided, they were sort of bucketed into act on this now, act on, you know, these recommendations within the next, you know, short term, they defined that.

555
00:55:11,660 --> 00:55:15,840
And then act on these, but build a plan towards it, they're not urgent.

556
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:24,920
Is that something you've thought about and have already communicated and that's going to be what's brought forward from the department in the future?

557
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:32,760
I would just look to hear a little thoughts on prioritization of these, was 58, right? Yeah, recommendations. Yeah.

558
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:38,220
Yeah, that is actually something that we did provide to the Department as a supplementary item.

559
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,480
So we do provide, we call it our implementation roadmap.

560
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:49,060
So we did provide the department with an implementation roadmap that we would be very happy to share with you that

561
00:55:49,060 --> 00:55:54,340
does include a prioritization in a timeframe in a responsible party.

562
00:55:54,580 --> 00:55:58,340
So we've done that by either a division manager or department head.

563
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,400
We've given every recommendation of priority and then a separate time frame.

564
00:56:02,420 --> 00:56:07,500
We realize that sometimes something that we call out as the high priority is not something

565
00:56:07,500 --> 00:56:09,460
that could be accomplished in a short time frame.

566
00:56:09,500 --> 00:56:13,400
So we do give that as a priority in a time frame for implementation separately.

567
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,460
And we do deliver that to the department as a roadmap.

568
00:56:16,620 --> 00:56:18,140
So we'd be happy to show that.

569
00:56:18,140 --> 00:56:26,020
Excellent, that's exactly the words I was hoping to hear as an implementation plan or road map with roles and responsibilities in timeline.

570
00:56:26,580 --> 00:56:29,500
So you have the answer to my question, I appreciate that.

571
00:56:29,740 --> 00:56:32,600
All right, I think that let me just check my notes.

572
00:56:33,100 --> 00:56:34,780
Yeah, I think that's everything I had.

573
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:36,860
It'll just quit plans, are we good?

574
00:56:37,740 --> 00:56:39,160
Oh, Ms. Charkey has another question.

575
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,140
One more thing I just wanted to mention because I found it interesting.

576
00:56:42,340 --> 00:56:44,620
Thank you for including Jen and Amy.

577
00:56:44,620 --> 00:56:49,720
Is this information in the back that's almost like a little bit of an executive summary for us?

578
00:56:50,540 --> 00:56:55,620
About the cost of running the utilities department in Sandy versus other cities?

579
00:56:56,260 --> 00:56:59,860
And once again, it's just it's high level, doesn't have a lot of detail,

580
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:05,880
but it gives us a level of satisfaction that we're also doing a lot for a little.

581
00:57:05,980 --> 00:57:11,500
We're operating very lean, we're operating very well, and thank God we're not Salt Lake City.

582
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:17,920
Thank you.

583
00:57:19,860 --> 00:57:20,340
That is everything.

584
00:57:20,340 --> 00:57:21,720
I think that is everything.

585
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:26,200
So thank you both so much for joining a tremendous amount of work when into this and we

586
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:32,120
look forward to sort of continuing to think through next steps with you as we sort of

587
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,240
feel out the remaining hours of the consultation and the project.

588
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:38,200
Again, thank you for your time tonight.

589
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:39,260
Thank you for joining us.

590
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:40,720
We appreciate everything.

591
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:41,640
Madam Chair.

592
00:57:41,660 --> 00:57:42,860
Thank you for having us.

593
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:43,260
Come on.

594
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:43,980
Yes.

595
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:44,980
Can I just add one comment?

596
00:57:44,980 --> 00:57:45,340
Please.

597
00:57:46,740 --> 00:57:50,160
So you mentioned this, but I just want to make sure that Council is aware.

598
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,540
So we do have some hours left with Matrix.

599
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,460
As I understand that this kind of a result of the merger,

600
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:02,120
there's some things happening in the merger that maybe we didn't end up needing to look at,

601
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:03,560
which resulted in some extra hours.

602
00:58:04,180 --> 00:58:08,380
So we are having conversations with the Public Works staff,

603
00:58:08,780 --> 00:58:14,140
with Martin for sure about what we might want to have them look at.

604
00:58:14,140 --> 00:58:16,040
And so we'll be sure to keep you in the loop on that.

605
00:58:16,260 --> 00:58:20,500
And then the second thing is I just wanted to give Kudos to Justin.

606
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:21,760
He's back in the corner.

607
00:58:22,020 --> 00:58:24,140
He managed this from the very beginning,

608
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,080
worked with Matrix, worked with the Public Utilities staff,

609
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,800
and just wanted to express thanks to him and let you know how great of a job.

610
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:34,060
I feel like he did kind of managing this management study.

611
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,180
So thank you.

612
00:58:36,540 --> 00:58:38,900
Thank you, thank you, Justin, as well.

613
00:58:39,340 --> 00:58:42,240
OK, so with that, we'll say goodbye to both of you.

614
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:42,860
Thank you, Jen.

615
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:43,480
Thank you, Amy.

616
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:51,000
And we're going to move on to our next item, which, again, informational item, and we have...

617
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:51,800
Do you want it to be?

618
00:58:52,100 --> 00:58:55,020
We start another, would you like to take public comment?

619
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:56,260
Yes, I would.

620
00:58:56,540 --> 00:58:57,460
I'm hearing it in stereo.

621
00:58:58,200 --> 00:58:58,620
That was perfect.

622
00:58:58,740 --> 00:59:01,920
Thank you for stopping me because this is the right time to stop and take public comment.

623
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:07,240
So we'll pause in our agenda and begin our general citizen comment.

624
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:12,080
So this portion of our meeting is reserved for the public to come and share things with us.

625
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:17,400
not a back and forth, it's just our opportunity to listen to residents and hear your thoughts

626
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:23,820
on city, city matters. So we have Henry Butters, if you'll come up with join us. And as

627
00:59:23,820 --> 00:59:27,440
a reminder to everyone, public comment is limited to three minutes.

628
00:59:31,340 --> 00:59:35,500
I don't know how I can handle this out to you guys. This was some stuff.

629
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:45,820
Thank you, Chair,

630
00:59:46,100 --> 00:59:53,120
and thank you, everybody, have helped me out on certain things. One thing I'm concerned about,

631
00:59:53,740 --> 00:59:59,640
is I feel like San he is trying to sweep underneath the rug is what the mayor did in

632
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:08,900
Any property? She said it's not against the law in county property. Here's the code for the county.

633
01:00:09,820 --> 01:00:13,760
Say, no horse is off-lanards for any animals.

634
01:00:17,100 --> 01:00:24,680
Okay. There is the law. Okay. Mayor, don't tell me there's not a law.

635
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:31,860
Like I got stopped today in a truck for anchor violation, I broke the law, it was out.

636
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:34,140
That was my problem.

637
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,680
I talked to the DOT officer and I said, I'll get it fixed.

638
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:39,900
I had a fixed in two seconds flat.

639
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:42,640
He let me go on my way.

640
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,080
You broke the law and you put all over Facebook.

641
01:00:49,850 --> 01:00:53,590
It's our freedom of speech to come over anybody accountable.

642
01:00:53,590 --> 01:01:03,690
Even you, Martin, the police chief, and when the police chief got sworn in, he said he would defend our constitutional rights and the laws.

643
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:10,520
This is the law, our dear beloved Mayor broke.

644
01:01:12,610 --> 01:01:16,110
Don't come tell me you broke, did not break the law.

645
01:01:17,050 --> 01:01:23,210
Okay. If you want to have a conversation, I want Martin involved now.

646
01:01:23,210 --> 01:01:32,070
Because if you ever come at me like that again under constitutional rights, I will come and have fun.

647
01:01:33,530 --> 01:01:39,590
I just want to thank you to every city council that have helped me, Sharky.

648
01:01:39,990 --> 01:01:46,750
Anybody at Brook Christian sin and Brook Suicide?

649
01:01:46,750 --> 01:01:56,190
Sorry, but I want to tell you guys thank you and this is why I want to come bring this to you guys as a tension she said she did not break the law

650
01:01:56,190 --> 01:01:57,810
But she did

651
01:01:57,810 --> 01:02:04,070
Martin has the video she did break the law like I broke the law on a blink of an eye relationship

652
01:02:04,730 --> 01:02:09,230
Like she hold them kids accountable for still in her science

653
01:02:10,570 --> 01:02:19,500
it's still a crime what she does. Sorry Mayor, you broke all. Thank you, have a great name.

654
01:02:22,100 --> 01:02:31,340
Thank you. I do not see any more blue cards and no one waited me down in the chambers here.

655
01:02:31,500 --> 01:02:34,440
So we'll move to online, Mr. Frato, if you'll give those instructions.

656
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:41,860
Of course, we'll do that. I'm chair. If you're joining us virtually this evening via Zoom and you'd like to comment on any city business.

657
01:02:41,860 --> 01:02:49,300
now's the time. Go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen. I'll call your name in the order in which you raised your hand and you'll have three minutes.

658
01:02:50,980 --> 01:02:57,980
And Madam Chair, while we're waiting, I did receive a comment via email that I was asked to read into the record.

659
01:02:59,380 --> 01:03:01,540
So if we don't have any raised hands, I'll do that in just a moment.

660
01:03:27,270 --> 01:03:33,690
Madam Chair, I don't see any hands raised online, but we do have one other blue card. I'll pass that down to you in just a second.

661
01:03:33,690 --> 01:03:35,450
But it's a Dell Clark.

662
01:03:36,370 --> 01:03:38,390
So Ms. Clark, if you want to come up to the podium,

663
01:03:38,590 --> 01:03:39,550
you'll have three minutes.

664
01:03:45,700 --> 01:03:47,080
Terrence, did you count full?

665
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:48,680
I didn't hear her on.

666
01:03:48,700 --> 01:03:50,720
Ms. Clark, could you just take that microphone

667
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:52,500
and put it down so we can hear you.

668
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:53,100
Thank you so much.

669
01:03:54,340 --> 01:03:58,740
I'm here on a rezoning issue for Hagen Road.

670
01:04:00,220 --> 01:04:01,660
So I want to give you a little background.

671
01:04:02,380 --> 01:04:06,780
My husband and I purchased Ralland and on Hagen Road in 1991.

672
01:04:06,780 --> 01:04:14,460
And it took us three years to build on that property, mostly because there are issues between

673
01:04:14,460 --> 01:04:16,060
Sandy, City, and Salt Lake County.

674
01:04:16,300 --> 01:04:18,400
It was a pocket of Salt Lake County.

675
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:24,840
And so it took us three years to get through all of those issues, three lawyers, two title

676
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:29,240
companies, and two engineering firms to get through all of the issues.

677
01:04:31,460 --> 01:04:35,940
When we got through the issues, we thought we'd get our building permit, but we had to go back

678
01:04:35,940 --> 01:04:38,020
to seven brothers, again, your seven brothers,

679
01:04:39,060 --> 01:04:40,960
two of which were deceased and five,

680
01:04:41,340 --> 01:04:43,660
which were between super nice,

681
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:44,980
they do anything for you,

682
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:47,960
and some distant one, anything to do with us.

683
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,640
We had already gone back to them to get,

684
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:52,620
to fix some problems with the property,

685
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:54,800
and that we thought we were done.

686
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,380
So Sandy said he required us to go back and get the road

687
01:04:58,380 --> 01:04:59,940
from just south and west.

688
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:10,440
High-prod, property, 105A3, hang-in, all the way to 114 South. It had been

689
01:05:12,490 --> 01:05:31,930
given to Sandy City, kind of illegally, by the people that we bought the property fund, and so we had to go and get that square away. And we did. So the five-gender, some brothers, came down here to Sandy City, and I signed a deed in 1994, and they worked with the mayor at that time. We took pictures, it was a great thing.

690
01:05:32,050 --> 01:05:36,330
We got Hagan Road all the way down and we finally got our building permit.

691
01:05:37,270 --> 01:05:44,510
My husband and I had an acre and we decided to subdivide that acre and we created what's

692
01:05:44,510 --> 01:05:45,750
called the Clark Mini-Sem.

693
01:05:46,370 --> 01:05:53,290
In that subdivision, we were zoned our 120 Sandy City told us we had to be zoned our 120.

694
01:05:53,550 --> 01:05:59,110
We could not have agricultural rights so we followed those instructions.

695
01:05:59,110 --> 01:06:04,510
we created the mini-sev, one husband and I finally built and moved in in 1995.

696
01:06:08,110 --> 01:06:12,910
There have been three owners of the property that we sold since that time.

697
01:06:13,470 --> 01:06:20,970
The current owner has put sheep on those lands and has chickens and they're not zoned to have that.

698
01:06:21,490 --> 01:06:27,810
So we went, I, my son, who used to be in code enforcement for another city went to code enforcement and asked

699
01:06:28,690 --> 01:06:33,570
filed a code enforcement violation, and we asked for the sheep to be removed.

700
01:06:34,750 --> 01:06:42,140
Well, Mr. Grant got permission to keep those sheep. They're still there to this day.

701
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:48,880
I was very distraught because the sheep create a lot of noise.

702
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:54,000
My husband and I, my husband's deceased,

703
01:06:58,740 --> 01:07:00,280
and I did a lot of projects.

704
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,600
And one of the projects that we did was creating this incredible backyard.

705
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:09,900
And I can't go out my backyard now because of the sheep I hear them.

706
01:07:10,340 --> 01:07:13,360
I can't wait my windows open at night because I hear them.

707
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:16,980
I can't have the windows open in the morning because they wait me up.

708
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,800
I can't go out into my greenhouse because I hear them.

709
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:23,240
They have been tried across my property.

710
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,580
They have defecated on my lawn.

711
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:38,540
And there in a sense, they have been in a new sense, and the property isn't zoned, never was zoned, never intended to be zoned farmland or agricultural by me and my husband.

712
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:46,840
No one on Hagen Road has farm animals, nobody does, except Mr. Grant.

713
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:53,540
We don't, we've hit the, we've hit the three minute mark, we have a three minute limit on comments.

714
01:07:53,540 --> 01:07:58,360
If you have something else, you're welcome to send it in, in the email, be the best way to do it.

715
01:07:58,660 --> 01:08:03,000
I've tried that, and unfortunately it didn't get into the planning and zoning meeting.

716
01:08:04,180 --> 01:08:07,920
I don't know why it didn't, but it didn't. That's why I'm here. It's to make sure.

717
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:12,080
But I will reach out to each one of you contact you and give you the full details.

718
01:08:13,500 --> 01:08:15,000
I don't want to live next to a farm.

719
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:19,700
You should never have to live next to a farm. Never intended for that to be farm like.

720
01:08:19,900 --> 01:08:20,500
Thank you.

721
01:08:20,660 --> 01:08:21,660
Thank you.

722
01:08:23,100 --> 01:08:24,880
All right, I don't see any more.

723
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:26,060
You said you had one to read in.

724
01:08:26,060 --> 01:08:28,500
If I do, it's quite a long one.

725
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,280
I'm going to set a timer and we'll end it at three minute mark.

726
01:08:37,090 --> 01:08:41,790
OK, Madam Chair, this comment is from Steve Andrus.

727
01:08:44,610 --> 01:08:47,050
Dear Mayor and members of the Council,

728
01:08:47,670 --> 01:08:49,770
whether due to budget policy, lack of interest

729
01:08:49,770 --> 01:08:50,790
or just plain ignorance.

730
01:08:50,910 --> 01:08:53,290
Nothing is getting done to solve the issues of traffic

731
01:08:53,290 --> 01:08:55,330
and ways in dangerous motoring.

732
01:08:55,570 --> 01:08:57,490
I have repeatedly made this problem known

733
01:08:57,490 --> 01:09:00,230
to you, the council, the sandy police, and you dot.

734
01:09:00,670 --> 01:09:03,070
Some have not even bothered to respond to my concerns.

735
01:09:03,710 --> 01:09:05,350
Once again, my issue is unique.

736
01:09:05,990 --> 01:09:08,750
The local and unintelligent road design

737
01:09:08,750 --> 01:09:12,890
that borders my backyard, my property in about 19 other homes,

738
01:09:12,950 --> 01:09:14,270
10 on either side of the street,

739
01:09:14,490 --> 01:09:16,810
are directly impacted by the dangerous nuisance.

740
01:09:17,710 --> 01:09:20,170
I will yet again explain the absolute design flaws

741
01:09:20,170 --> 01:09:21,970
of the road and lack of policing.

742
01:09:22,170 --> 01:09:23,890
However, for the past two months,

743
01:09:23,890 --> 01:09:27,510
I have been in contact with Chief Niber and Lieutenant Webb.

744
01:09:27,550 --> 01:09:29,810
They state their frustrations and not being able

745
01:09:29,810 --> 01:09:31,610
to be more helpful due to budgeting issues

746
01:09:31,610 --> 01:09:35,230
and other policing zones deemed to be more important.

747
01:09:35,590 --> 01:09:39,050
Ironically, it's like the police or the ones who are handcuffed.

748
01:09:39,510 --> 01:09:41,050
I can understand their frustrations,

749
01:09:41,070 --> 01:09:42,930
but I'm disgusted by the implication

750
01:09:42,930 --> 01:09:44,650
that there isn't any more to be done.

751
01:09:45,150 --> 01:09:48,110
I've been a Sandy Tax pair for about 17 years now.

752
01:09:48,170 --> 01:09:50,990
My taxes have definitely not been working for me.

753
01:09:51,350 --> 01:09:53,710
This issue has never been properly addressed

754
01:09:53,710 --> 01:09:58,850
had any meaningful attempt at correcting the actual problem. I've been given the run around

755
01:09:58,850 --> 01:09:59,930
by this council in use.

756
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:29,920
Read out as you pass the buck to each other or someone else. Enough, just do your jobs. It's been far too long, and I've been more unreasonable with my requests for action. My communications have been numerous, including in-person attendance to the council meetings, phone calls, texts, and emails to every member and the mayor. So you can't say you weren't aware of the problem. Chief Niver was good enough to share his results of the recent traffic study above 2,500 East, and a little con with King and Road, with all their respect.

757
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,180
That stretch of road is nothing like mine.

758
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,160
Nor is anything below 2300 East.

759
01:10:35,860 --> 01:10:37,900
I know that other streets need attention to,

760
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:39,260
but mine is absolutely worse,

761
01:10:39,860 --> 01:10:42,300
especially from a dangerous traffic and noise standpoint.

762
01:10:42,940 --> 01:10:46,260
I would estimate the average speed here to be in excess of 45.

763
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:49,900
The post-it speed limit is 40 and is already too fast.

764
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,740
And speeding averages like we closer to 50 miles per hour.

765
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,160
That said, there are slow trucks and cyclists, scooters,

766
01:10:57,820 --> 01:11:01,900
etc., that register a speed, but don't actually count for real traffic speeds.

767
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:06,660
However, the majority of everyday drivers are going faster than the post-it speed limit,

768
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:11,800
and that's not taking into account the true violators. Anyone going over 55?

769
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:19,920
Chief Kniver's study showed 331 violators over the course of two weeks in the neighborhood, well above my own.

770
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:27,940
Where and when they are no longer speeding comparatively, and someone was even clocked at 78 miles per hour way up there.

771
01:11:27,980 --> 01:11:32,120
That's nothing compared to what happens hourly on my 200-yard stretch of road.

772
01:11:32,660 --> 01:11:36,120
You have to experience witness it for yourself to truly know what it's like.

773
01:11:36,460 --> 01:11:42,280
I may not have a speed reader or radar gun, but I know how fast fast is.

774
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:44,440
At the very least even a regular,

775
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:50,400
that's the three-minute mark on that comment.

776
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:57,000
Madam Chair, I did send you this full comment last week when we received it, so you should have it in your email as well.

777
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:00,180
And with that, Madam Chair, I don't see any other blue cards or comments.

778
01:12:01,660 --> 01:12:02,860
All right, thank you, Mr. Fato.

779
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:08,040
So without a go ahead and close public comment and move us to our next item on our agenda.

780
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:10,400
Brian, I believe you are presenting this.

781
01:12:11,220 --> 01:12:12,960
Our fraud risk assessment.

782
01:12:14,900 --> 01:12:16,460
Yes, good evening, council members.

783
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:17,880
It's good to be with you tonight.

784
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,400
As you mentioned, I'm reporting on the Annual Fraud Risk Assessment.

785
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:40,400
This is a state program implemented several years ago from the Office of State Auditor and it's an annual assessment that we do internally looking at many different measures of how we can how we're doing as an organization to identify undetected fraud or abuse of resources.

786
01:12:41,980 --> 01:12:48,180
It kind of at a high level, we scored in the low risk category, similar to previous years.

787
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:50,680
We're at one point away from the very low risk.

788
01:12:52,340 --> 01:12:53,860
Some of the measures are criteria.

789
01:12:54,140 --> 01:13:02,260
They look at our staff training and knowledge skills and abilities of our staff, the policies

790
01:13:02,260 --> 01:13:05,960
that we have in place, the internal controls we have in place.

791
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:14,160
We have an anonymous fraud report to hotline that the public or employees can report issues

792
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:21,200
that they see all of those out of and contribute to our positive score of low risk.

793
01:13:21,780 --> 01:13:23,380
So, is there any questions I could address?

794
01:13:29,020 --> 01:13:29,660
Not seeing any.

795
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:30,980
I have just one.

796
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:32,160
fine.

797
01:13:34,260 --> 01:13:41,720
The one point away, based on what I kind of looked at, that might be something we could

798
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:47,220
adjust with an audit committee. If the City Council were to establish an audit committee,

799
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:50,300
which I believe is done in other cities, would that, I know it's...

800
01:13:50,300 --> 01:13:55,960
Yes, that would. Yeah, that would be, it gives us 20 points if we had an audit committee,

801
01:13:56,120 --> 01:14:01,400
which would be the way those are usually set up. It's an extension of the governing

802
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:09,260
body. You would want to have a member that's not part of management on that and you need

803
01:14:09,260 --> 01:14:15,740
identify other committee members. They would look at a lot of the same things we're already

804
01:14:15,740 --> 01:14:19,960
doing. You'd want to make sure we have an external audit that's done which we currently

805
01:14:20,740 --> 01:14:28,660
do that be looking at our policies. So it's an added step and we could certainly do that

806
01:14:28,660 --> 01:14:35,120
if you'd like to. It would probably entail possibly some costs and time. I haven't felt

807
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:40,680
like the cost benefit reward would be there. That's why we haven't done it, but we're

808
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:42,340
happy to look at it if you'd like us to.

809
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:49,020
It was just a question. I would love your recommendation at some point because I felt like

810
01:14:49,020 --> 01:14:54,720
that was something that the council could do to help with the score. If we wanted to get

811
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:59,460
that point and, you know, it was important enough to us to be in the very low.

812
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:13,980
I also would appreciate a cost benefit analysis, and you come back and let us know. I would be supportive of an audit committee, but not at the expense of taxing you and staff in a way that doesn't make sense.

813
01:15:14,580 --> 01:15:27,820
But I'm always a fan of outside eyes, other people's thinking, that's why I appreciate our management studies so much. So having a committee that sort of provides some additional oversight, I would be open to.

814
01:15:27,820 --> 01:15:34,040
But like you offered, cost benefit analysis, if you come back and say, I know whether cities do it,

815
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:38,060
but I'm not sure that something we need, I'd be interested to hear that.

816
01:15:38,540 --> 01:15:43,160
Yeah, and one thing I wanted to mention, you just brought up is the management studies.

817
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:50,260
One of the other things is having an internal audit function, and I think that would qualify, hearing their presentation tonight.

818
01:15:50,260 --> 01:15:56,100
So I think for the fiscal year 27, we could, that would qualify because they're looking at

819
01:15:56,860 --> 01:16:01,860
processes, policies, best practices, all those are parts of internal auditing.

820
01:16:02,940 --> 01:16:06,360
So I think next year, I report we would show that we're in the very low risk.

821
01:16:07,420 --> 01:16:08,140
Well, there we go.

822
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:13,160
Yeah, and that's something that council is helping with your funding those studies.

823
01:16:13,700 --> 01:16:19,140
Okay, good. Well, that was, I mean, I don't want to be particularly over a point that, like, if we can help,

824
01:16:19,140 --> 01:16:21,060
but it sounds like we have a solution.

825
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:22,900
Yeah, I think we do.

826
01:16:23,540 --> 01:16:24,600
Thank you.

827
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:25,860
I think that's.

828
01:16:26,440 --> 01:16:26,720
All right.

829
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:27,780
Thank you.

830
01:16:28,340 --> 01:16:28,560
Okay.

831
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:29,760
Moving on.

832
01:16:30,180 --> 01:16:32,820
We will move to our Haken Road Reson conversation.

833
01:16:33,020 --> 01:16:34,620
Again, this is an informational item.

834
01:16:34,860 --> 01:16:36,320
No vote will be taken tonight.

835
01:16:37,340 --> 01:16:38,400
Jake, you've got this.

836
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:38,980
I believe.

837
01:16:46,540 --> 01:16:46,860
Thank you.

838
01:16:46,940 --> 01:16:47,380
Madam Chair.

839
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:48,000
Good evening.

840
01:16:48,220 --> 01:16:49,100
Council for the public.

841
01:16:49,220 --> 01:16:50,080
My name's Jake Warner.

842
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:52,500
I'm a name's planning manager for Sandy City.

843
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:57,140
Sandy City has received a rezone application from Matthew Grant.

844
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:00,580
He is joined by two of his neighbors, Perry Evans, and Lyle Warner.

845
01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:05,560
I am not related as far as I know, the Lyle Warner, nor any of the other applicants.

846
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:11,200
but they have submitted jointly an application to

847
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:17,580
reason on their properties at 1-1-5-6-2, 1-1-5-6-3 and 1-1-5-8-6

848
01:17:17,580 --> 01:17:22,420
Hagen Road, all three are developed residential properties,

849
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:27,740
with homes already on them. The total acreage is about

850
01:17:27,740 --> 01:17:34,880
1.79 acres, as was previously mentioned, there are four

851
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:39,880
on Hagen Road that are not zoned R1-20A.

852
01:17:41,460 --> 01:17:45,160
Sorry, I should say there are four homes on Hagen Road zoned R1-20.

853
01:17:45,780 --> 01:17:49,280
There are 17 homes to the north zoned R1-20A

854
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:53,240
and there are 14 homes to the south zoned R1-10.

855
01:17:53,620 --> 01:17:58,080
The properties to the east are also zoned R1-10.

856
01:17:58,620 --> 01:18:02,500
The properties to the west are zoned R1-20A.

857
01:18:03,420 --> 01:18:04,340
The,

858
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:30,120
trying to advance the slides here to keep up, the future land use map designates this area as very low density neighborhood or rural neighborhood, the R 120 and the R 120A zones are both consistent with that future land use designation.

859
01:18:31,790 --> 01:18:39,770
The I failed to mention that the request is to add the designation to their existing zoning.

860
01:18:40,270 --> 01:18:42,390
So they are requesting they are on 28 zone.

861
01:18:43,470 --> 01:18:46,790
There was a neighborhood meeting held on August 10th.

862
01:18:47,530 --> 01:18:53,250
This application was presented to the Planning Commission on August 20th.

863
01:18:53,310 --> 01:18:55,210
And they forwarded a positive recommendation.

864
01:18:56,150 --> 01:19:00,850
It is a legislative item so you use the City Council to make the final decision on this.

865
01:19:00,850 --> 01:19:16,850
And so it is being presented to you tonight as an informational item and is scheduled to come back to you on September 15th for a decision with that staff is available for questions in the applicant as president prepared to present as well.

866
01:19:18,030 --> 01:19:18,610
Thank you.

867
01:19:19,270 --> 01:19:20,830
Questions from council.

868
01:19:20,930 --> 01:19:21,390
Ms. Nickel.

869
01:19:24,060 --> 01:19:24,440
Thank you.

870
01:19:24,620 --> 01:19:27,260
I think this has one of the comments that I read in here.

871
01:19:27,260 --> 01:19:32,540
It's about the, any animal having enough space.

872
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:34,480
We have a code.

873
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:38,780
We have something in code that states how much a farm animal needs,

874
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:40,140
like a horse in the cow.

875
01:19:42,120 --> 01:19:44,780
The number of farm animals allowed in the proper

876
01:19:44,780 --> 01:19:45,400
with an native land.

877
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:47,060
The amount of land that they need.

878
01:19:47,260 --> 01:19:51,960
We do not specify how much land has to be set aside

879
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:53,680
specifically for those animals.

880
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:55,960
So the number of animals they can have

881
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:58,620
have is determined by the size of the property overall.

882
01:20:00,180 --> 01:20:06,400
But generally, we do not have any regulations on how much area is required.

883
01:20:07,180 --> 01:20:11,560
I can't read the code today. There was something that stated that they need to have a certain amount.

884
01:20:12,540 --> 01:20:18,640
There is a unique zone, I believe it's for Bel Canyon acres, that does have that.

885
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,360
That I looked at that, you know what you're just going to say, I'd like that provision.

886
01:20:21,580 --> 01:20:23,400
That's why it's a going to lend Belmont code.

887
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:25,780
So, all right, Austin, thank you.

888
01:20:28,580 --> 01:20:29,240
Other questions?

889
01:20:32,180 --> 01:20:32,940
Okay, I will.

890
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:42,320
Okay, so just clarifying, in the minutes there,

891
01:20:44,420 --> 01:20:49,380
the 1988 Christmas and annexation, it's showing

892
01:20:49,380 --> 01:20:56,320
that it was adopted as by the council as our, our 120, right?

893
01:20:56,440 --> 01:20:56,800
Correct.

894
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:17,380
And then what we are considering is not necessarily how many sheep, it's kind of in line with what you were asking, the maximum number of animals by type on a half acre lot, and you're saying, that's tell me.

895
01:21:17,380 --> 01:21:25,340
sorry to I was you're getting starting to so without the a designation they are not allowed

896
01:21:25,340 --> 01:21:32,820
to farm animals on the property and as I mentioned the applicant is here and can speak to that

897
01:21:32,820 --> 01:21:39,760
but my understanding is that he was not aware that their properties did not have farm animal rights

898
01:21:40,420 --> 01:21:46,620
so the reason on application is requesting to add the designation that would allow farm animals

899
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:53,160
on the property, and all other rights associated with with that designation.

900
01:21:53,480 --> 01:21:59,700
There's some flexibility that's allowed for accessory structures, for example, when you have any designation.

901
01:22:00,500 --> 01:22:05,000
So, it's not just the farm animals, there's some other provisions in the code as well.

902
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:20,820
But he does have sheep on the property and so he is seeking the a designation so that those would be there in compliance with his zoning if he were to be approved for the reason.

903
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:27,960
And then you hit several of the things that I listed here except what I did not hear is whether or not boarding.

904
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:36,200
So if if the A designation was given whether or not boarding or renting space for other people's animals would be permitted

905
01:22:39,380 --> 01:22:45,560
I'm not as clear on the board. I believe we allow I might need to turn to my ask a friend here

906
01:22:46,480 --> 01:22:51,480
That shows no longer on the air. I don't think is it still phone a friend?

907
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:56,200
Okay, that's still an option, right? Yes, I want to be a millionaire. Oh, yes

908
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:03,800
But boarding is not allowed except for one area in the city and that's in the Belkanian area.

909
01:23:04,340 --> 01:23:07,420
So generally, boarding is not allowed within the same city.

910
01:23:08,140 --> 01:23:09,160
Even with a designation.

911
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:09,580
Correct.

912
01:23:09,700 --> 01:23:10,000
Okay.

913
01:23:10,260 --> 01:23:11,660
That was a question I had.

914
01:23:12,300 --> 01:23:16,900
And then this is not a hard and fast question, but a curiosity.

915
01:23:17,340 --> 01:23:23,720
And as much for my colleagues as the two of you is, is there, or was there considered

916
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:30,380
some type of like temporary conditional use permit that allows the lambs to be raised,

917
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:36,180
but this is not necessarily like an ongoing designation.

918
01:23:37,220 --> 01:23:48,400
We don't. It's kind of an all or nothing in our code. I'm not aware of any way that we could do that within the existing regulations in the code.

919
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:54,600
So, like, for example, like, I'm going to have to read my notes because I thought this

920
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:55,720
through, but I want to get it right.

921
01:23:57,120 --> 01:24:07,080
So, draft a tiered, farm animal designation rather than gross lot size, just thinking, trying

922
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:14,820
to think of instead of a yes or a no, is, is, and if you just tell me, Marcy, it's a yes

923
01:24:14,820 --> 01:24:15,320
or a no.

924
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:20,060
It's a yes or no. We would have to draft a code amendment to come up with it.

925
01:24:20,300 --> 01:24:25,160
Yeah, anything other than what's before you this evening, which is the request to

926
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:30,760
reason, and that's an upper down vote on whether to reason on the property or not,

927
01:24:31,340 --> 01:24:37,380
whether you want us to consider other provisions that would create a

928
01:24:37,380 --> 01:24:42,900
farm animal set aside area that mandates a minimum area that's required in order to keep animals,

929
01:24:42,900 --> 01:24:52,280
or other provisions that would allow for temporary occupancy of farm animals on a property.

930
01:24:52,500 --> 01:24:56,960
Those are not allowed in our current zone, and that's not an option right now.

931
01:24:57,780 --> 01:24:59,960
And it's partially because what is-

932
01:25:01,580 --> 01:25:08,960
It's just the—what's being requested is add, add agriculture designation to our current zoning.

933
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:13,520
Correct. That's what being requested so it's a yes or no on that request.

934
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:18,500
Oh, sorry. I heard—

935
01:25:18,500 --> 01:25:18,760
Oh.

936
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:21,080
Whoa. I think I triggered something.

937
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:23,020
So, who was first?

938
01:25:23,080 --> 01:25:24,460
Just on the code.

939
01:25:24,460 --> 01:25:28,500
I was reading today, and two one, 113,

940
01:25:31,850 --> 01:25:34,250
is talks about.

941
01:25:34,370 --> 01:25:39,170
That is the section that defines the designation as far as the keeping of farm animals.

942
01:25:39,410 --> 01:25:42,010
Yeah, but it also printed it so small.

943
01:25:42,710 --> 01:25:43,210
Let's forgive me.

944
01:25:43,330 --> 01:25:46,530
Number three is where it talks about having enough space.

945
01:25:48,290 --> 01:25:49,890
Which code for vision are you in?

946
01:25:49,890 --> 01:25:53,850
I am in 21, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11,

947
01:25:55,090 --> 01:25:55,130
A,

948
01:26:06,790 --> 01:26:08,330
is that a wrong section?

949
01:26:08,550 --> 01:26:08,810
No.

950
01:26:09,050 --> 01:26:12,370
So that is the ratio that Jake was referring to earlier.

951
01:26:13,470 --> 01:26:16,370
It's in regards to total square footage of lot size.

952
01:26:16,370 --> 01:26:16,890
Oh, OK.

953
01:26:16,890 --> 01:26:19,490
It is not specific to the area dedicated

954
01:26:19,490 --> 01:26:21,290
for the keeping of that animal.

955
01:26:21,650 --> 01:26:22,210
OK.

956
01:26:22,590 --> 01:26:24,710
What requires 10,000 square.

957
01:26:24,710 --> 01:26:25,290
OK, gotcha.

958
01:26:25,670 --> 01:26:25,990
OK.

959
01:26:26,550 --> 01:26:29,310
It's kind of a point system based on the square footage

960
01:26:29,310 --> 01:26:29,890
of the property.

961
01:26:29,890 --> 01:26:36,690
So a half acre lock can have a 10,000 square foot allocation for a large animal and then

962
01:26:36,690 --> 01:26:44,850
medium animals at a 400 square foot or 4,000 square foot and then small animals at a 400 square foot ratio.

963
01:26:47,380 --> 01:26:48,200
Mr. Soussa?

964
01:26:49,060 --> 01:26:49,640
Thank you.

965
01:26:49,940 --> 01:26:50,740
I don't really have a question.

966
01:26:50,740 --> 01:26:53,240
I just wanted to kind of share my thoughts on this.

967
01:26:53,260 --> 01:26:58,660
You know, as I've been on the council, these types of conversations have come up over and over again

968
01:26:58,660 --> 01:27:00,220
over the last four and a half years.

969
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:03,800
And so I feel fairly familiar with some of the concerns.

970
01:27:04,180 --> 01:27:06,180
This is maybe a different situation

971
01:27:06,180 --> 01:27:08,960
because it feels like it's maybe going the other way, right?

972
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:10,960
Where we don't have an allowance

973
01:27:10,960 --> 01:27:14,200
and there's a request to add that allowance.

974
01:27:15,060 --> 01:27:18,600
And so for me, it's not a secret that farm animals

975
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:23,440
bring with them nuisance, whether it's sound, odor,

976
01:27:24,740 --> 01:27:27,700
the flies, the bugs, on the properties,

977
01:27:27,700 --> 01:27:31,960
where the A designation doesn't exist, you can still have chickens, right?

978
01:27:32,060 --> 01:27:37,060
So like there's an allowance for chickens in our city outside of the A designation.

979
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:40,840
And even with that, there's some nuisance that can be problematic.

980
01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:43,720
You know, my neighbors, I love my neighbors.

981
01:27:43,980 --> 01:27:45,900
They don't have chickens anymore, but they did.

982
01:27:45,980 --> 01:27:51,620
And when they did, we had a lot of rats because of the feed and everything, right?

983
01:27:51,620 --> 01:27:59,960
And so the nuisance is real, by creating an allowance where one doesn't exist right now,

984
01:28:00,020 --> 01:28:06,060
nor has it ever, on these particular lots, we are surprising neighbors with nuisance

985
01:28:08,180 --> 01:28:13,180
that could be a material fact, and whether or not they would have bought that home, had that

986
01:28:13,180 --> 01:28:14,820
existed at the time that they made that decision.

987
01:28:15,320 --> 01:28:20,020
I will say in real estate that it may be helpful for the properties that are getting that

988
01:28:20,020 --> 01:28:27,780
But it's not necessarily going to be helpful for the properties surrounding those that are adjacent to or touching.

989
01:28:28,820 --> 01:28:45,960
Even dog species is a problem in that area where we have people that have dogs and they don't pick up after themselves and that smell and the sight of dog species is a problem for neighboring homes.

990
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:49,220
whether they live there or whether you know whether they're selling.

991
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:58,180
So I'm just going to put out there that I'm not inclined to increase the presence of

992
01:28:58,180 --> 01:29:02,820
nuisance where it hasn't ever existed. There's more properties that touch.

993
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:06,640
There's like three properties that we're talking about and there's seven or eight

994
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:13,200
that but the properties, right? So we are potentially devaluing or creating a

995
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:18,780
situation for eight property owners to solve, I don't even know that it's a problem, right?

996
01:29:18,780 --> 01:29:21,680
Because it's never really existed, so those are my thoughts.

997
01:29:22,060 --> 01:29:28,340
I'm really worried about increasing or creating nuisance where there wasn't one in the enjoyment

998
01:29:28,340 --> 01:29:29,460
of one's property.

999
01:29:29,940 --> 01:29:31,020
We talk a lot about zoning.

1000
01:29:31,220 --> 01:29:35,620
There's a lot of people that talk about zoning and that you should be able to know what

1001
01:29:35,620 --> 01:29:40,200
to expect when you purchase a home, and I think this is just a surprise that doesn't seem

1002
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:43,640
the reward for the three properties is worth it.

1003
01:29:44,660 --> 01:29:50,340
I do think that it's no matter where you go in the city,

1004
01:29:50,440 --> 01:29:52,340
there's going to be properties that have eight designations,

1005
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:54,100
and then there's properties that immediately

1006
01:29:54,100 --> 01:29:54,920
but they don't.

1007
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:58,200
And so I don't know that having four on a street,

1008
01:29:58,200 --> 01:29:59,820
the street extends quite a ways.

1009
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:09,860
The rest of those properties don't grant it. They're smaller. When they wouldn't necessarily qualify anyway, but those are my thoughts. So I wouldn't be in support of this.

1010
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:12,340
Thank you, Mr. Sousa. Mr. Sharkey?

1011
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:28,320
Just a question. Obviously, this is just a straight-up. We're using on request, right? But there was a little bit of a mystery associated with this. And I kind of wanted to ask you about that, Jake, because it seems like you were the one that maybe looked into this a little bit.

1012
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:41,520
And that was that you do look at it and you wonder why all the other lots on this street of about the same size have the A designation, but these four don't.

1013
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:45,360
And see, wonder how did that condition come to exist, right?

1014
01:30:45,480 --> 01:30:59,520
And so from what I saw and read what you found in the record was that the planning commission at one time in terms of

1015
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:01,740
is it when annexing in these properties?

1016
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:11,360
The Planning Commission made a recommendation to the City Council for R1-28, consistent with

1017
01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:13,300
all the other properties on the block, right?

1018
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:18,560
That may not have been listed as the rationale, but it would have been consistent.

1019
01:31:19,380 --> 01:31:27,900
All we know since this was so long ago is that the City Council chose the resolution that

1020
01:31:27,900 --> 01:31:36,720
past shows are 120. So we don't know, you made some kind of effort to figure out, did

1021
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:44,440
the City Council take the Planning Commission recommendation and decide against it, or was

1022
01:31:44,440 --> 01:31:51,360
there a mistake made by chance in the resolution that it just didn't include in A. Did you try

1023
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:57,060
to research as well as you could and found that? The file was incomplete at the time I have

1024
01:31:57,060 --> 01:32:02,320
track down with the help of the Council Office in the City of Recorder, some additional

1025
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:06,940
documentation. We had the Plonic Mission Minutes. We didn't have the City Council Minutes.

1026
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:12,480
We didn't have the executed ordinance in the file. We only had a draft ordinance.

1027
01:32:13,320 --> 01:32:16,860
There was an amendment to the ordinance. We had that amendment, but not the original.

1028
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:25,240
That was approved. Plonic Mission Minutes, the Plonic Mission did recommend the R-20A zone

1029
01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:32,940
with the annexation, to clear up one other thing, this annexation happened after the properties

1030
01:32:32,940 --> 01:32:35,600
to the south, but before the properties to the north.

1031
01:32:38,620 --> 01:32:47,640
So, Plonic Mission recommended R12A, I did get the Minister from the City Council meeting,

1032
01:32:48,300 --> 01:32:54,500
and it basically just says that their motion was further discussion, but it made clear that

1033
01:32:54,500 --> 01:33:01,180
discussion was about the A designation, basically, and they clarified that the motion was

1034
01:33:01,180 --> 01:33:05,420
further discussion that all properties annexed would be designated R-12.

1035
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:10,640
And that's what's in the ordinance, and we go by the ordinance that was approved and submitted

1036
01:33:10,640 --> 01:33:11,160
to the state.

1037
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:11,600
Okay.

1038
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:13,500
That's different than I thought I wanted to do.

1039
01:33:13,500 --> 01:33:15,600
We did get the executed ordinance, too.

1040
01:33:15,940 --> 01:33:22,080
The draft ordinance split and said R-12 and R-12A, and it wasn't clear which properties were

1041
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:27,580
intended to be rich in the draft ordinance, the approved signed ordinance, just as are

1042
01:33:27,580 --> 01:33:30,580
on 20 per the motion that was approved by the city council.

1043
01:33:32,220 --> 01:33:32,720
Thank you.

1044
01:33:35,580 --> 01:33:35,940
Excuse me.

1045
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:41,340
Thank you for all this information and we've had a lot of emails about this.

1046
01:33:41,660 --> 01:33:45,740
Just my thoughts on this, for can I or wildly different on this?

1047
01:33:46,220 --> 01:33:51,200
I actually think that this is a value add to the neighborhood, I think any neighborhood

1048
01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:58,620
with animal rights, encourages families, and more people to come in and I actually love

1049
01:33:58,620 --> 01:34:02,920
this because I would hate to have someone tell me what I can and cannot do, which I

1050
01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:09,700
know we do all the time, to my property, especially when an animal situation is so beneficial

1051
01:34:09,700 --> 01:34:14,580
to our quality of life. So just another opposite side of the coin.

1052
01:34:29,380 --> 01:34:34,740
Thank you very much.

1053
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:42,960
I was hoping I'll get a chance to address the issues here with you all.

1054
01:34:43,320 --> 01:34:48,540
My name is Matt Grant. I've lived in Sandy for the last 10 years with my wife, Laura, and her with eight children.

1055
01:34:49,260 --> 01:34:50,920
We would like to hear from the applicant, please.

1056
01:34:51,220 --> 01:34:53,080
Thank you very much. I was hoping I'll get a chance to address the issues here with you all.

1057
01:34:53,080 --> 01:34:56,020
and help us know what we love living in Sandean.

1058
01:34:56,260 --> 01:34:59,180
I'll just start by thanking you all for your service on and on.

1059
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:16,380
A long meeting, some week nights for you all, and I recognize you do a lot to make our community a great place, and sincerely want to thank you for weighing, especially contentious issues with their difficult, competing interest on both sides, so I appreciate you hearing without anyone with that to say.

1060
01:35:17,420 --> 01:35:28,200
So as noted, two of my neighbors and I have submitted to application, we do feel strongly that we should have a designation on our property, as a bit of background as you first, we got these lands back in April.

1061
01:35:28,200 --> 01:35:35,180
I did research, and I'd probably really like to much on AI summaries of the code that Ms. Nichole

1062
01:35:35,180 --> 01:35:35,600
you mentioned.

1063
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:36,500
It was kind of hard to understand.

1064
01:35:36,900 --> 01:35:39,520
But the summary I got back was that with the half acre lot in our area.

1065
01:35:39,700 --> 01:35:40,720
We would be able to have lambs.

1066
01:35:41,320 --> 01:35:44,040
We had neighbors on the street who would last couple of years about goats.

1067
01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:45,940
And there's horse properties and lots of chickens.

1068
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:48,200
So I didn't think too much of it.

1069
01:35:48,200 --> 01:35:49,100
Obviously it was a mistake.

1070
01:35:49,480 --> 01:35:50,480
I apologize for that.

1071
01:35:51,500 --> 01:35:55,720
Since then, I've learned from the city that we didn't need an A designation and understood how that worked.

1072
01:35:55,720 --> 01:35:58,140
And so working with the city, we applied for that.

1073
01:35:58,720 --> 01:36:00,480
And when we mentioned it to either neighbors, I asked

1074
01:36:00,480 --> 01:36:02,680
all four of our neighbors, who are all three of our neighbors,

1075
01:36:02,900 --> 01:36:05,160
who also don't have the A designation that they'd like to join.

1076
01:36:05,960 --> 01:36:08,640
Two of them wanted to, once they understood it,

1077
01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:11,300
and one of them, you first marked it and she chose not

1078
01:36:11,300 --> 01:36:12,260
to join us on this.

1079
01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:16,220
It's just like to highlight a few things.

1080
01:36:16,340 --> 01:36:17,460
It sounds like you've all read the materials,

1081
01:36:17,700 --> 01:36:18,280
which I really appreciate.

1082
01:36:18,460 --> 01:36:20,160
So I won't go into a lot of these telling that.

1083
01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:23,840
But I would just highlight that if you look at our neighborhood,

1084
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:26,500
that, you know, all of the lots in our broader neighborhood

1085
01:36:26,500 --> 01:36:31,920
from 13th east to the east, that are at least a half an acre

1086
01:36:31,920 --> 01:36:33,980
in size, half the eight is a nation except for these four.

1087
01:36:34,100 --> 01:36:35,480
They are at a significant exception.

1088
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:39,240
If you zoom out and look at broader sandy city,

1089
01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:42,360
virtually not virtually all, but the vast majority of lots

1090
01:36:42,360 --> 01:36:44,700
that are at least a half acre in size, half an eight is a nation.

1091
01:36:44,980 --> 01:36:46,920
It's certainly the exception of the work

1092
01:36:47,420 --> 01:36:49,960
of properties owned like ours is, or a size

1093
01:36:49,960 --> 01:36:51,020
with at least a half an acre.

1094
01:36:51,020 --> 01:36:56,060
And, in fact, many of the R1-15, which are smarter than the maker, and the majority of those

1095
01:36:56,060 --> 01:36:57,120
also have any designation.

1096
01:36:58,060 --> 01:37:01,240
So, there are thousands of properties in our city that have any designation.

1097
01:37:02,060 --> 01:37:05,780
We're seeking to add our three properties to that list, and we can't believe we think

1098
01:37:05,780 --> 01:37:06,700
it's an interest of fairness.

1099
01:37:07,780 --> 01:37:11,500
As I think, Mr. Susan mentioned, there are a lot of properties.

1100
01:37:11,740 --> 01:37:15,720
We certainly respect them and understand, you know, neighboring properties have rights.

1101
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:30,800
Many of those neighboring properties are already zoned, are 128, and there's R1-38 in that there are many homes in our neighborhood that are already raised chickens and we feel like the zoning request here is really consistent with the existing neighborhood.

1102
01:37:32,060 --> 01:37:33,720
I also highlight the planning commission.

1103
01:37:34,460 --> 01:37:40,900
I think that a very thorough deliberation here that actually came out of the bus and toward our neighborhood and they walked our property and they saw the layout, which I think was helpful to them.

1104
01:37:40,900 --> 01:37:48,680
voted 70 in favor unanimously of our result. I think with the benefit of seeing that, and I understand

1105
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:52,880
the city council doesn't normally do that, but any one of you would be welcome to, you know,

1106
01:37:52,980 --> 01:37:57,000
I can continue my contact information. I can see the property if that would be helpful, but I really

1107
01:37:57,000 --> 01:38:01,960
think it's a neighborhood that lends itself to having to aid designation in particular in

1108
01:38:01,960 --> 01:38:04,640
broader city where there are thousands of properties at this.

1109
01:38:05,420 --> 01:38:10,740
The second point I want to make, similar to Ms. Christiansen, is I think in our

1110
01:38:10,740 --> 01:38:14,680
our neighbors, broadly, I think that having this aid information added would be a big

1111
01:38:14,680 --> 01:38:18,840
positive for our neighborhood, and certainly for my own family. As you saw in the meeting materials,

1112
01:38:19,160 --> 01:38:22,780
we had, I think, 10 or so neighbors, some of whom I don't know reached out with emails,

1113
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:26,940
and supported this many more and stopped by, where they see the lovely orange signpost

1114
01:38:26,940 --> 01:38:29,780
in our front yard that we've had for a few weeks now, and they asked what's going on,

1115
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:34,400
and they're all very supportive. We've had dozens of neighborhood kids coming over and helping

1116
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:44,880
feed the lambs, lots of families come over and visit the lambs, it really has, I think, been a very positive thing for the neighborhood, I'm understanding that we have one neighbor who is opposed to it.

1117
01:38:45,060 --> 01:38:57,700
Certainly, a very positive for my kids. In the Sandy City code where it talks about the zoning, if I could just quote one line, it says that the farm animals on a lots can be held for the purposes of family food production, education and recreation.

1118
01:38:58,500 --> 01:39:01,360
And these lamps have provided terrific education for my

1119
01:39:01,360 --> 01:39:04,740
my eight children and as they've learned to help take care of them and help

1120
01:39:04,740 --> 01:39:07,740
keep their space clean and do everything we can to make sure there's no

1121
01:39:07,740 --> 01:39:10,900
nuisance issues there which is something we're very focused on and try to work

1122
01:39:10,900 --> 01:39:13,040
closely with our neighbors on.

1123
01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:17,380
And a few months, if this zoning is approved, which we hope it will be,

1124
01:39:17,740 --> 01:39:20,500
then these lamps will provide food for our family and that's, you know,

1125
01:39:20,580 --> 01:39:21,900
an argue that's a positive as well.

1126
01:39:22,100 --> 01:39:25,120
And we would like to have the right to be able to meet that determination.

1127
01:39:28,460 --> 01:39:33,940
Again, I'd say that even if this is approved, I don't know that we'll ever have lines

1128
01:39:33,940 --> 01:39:34,180
again.

1129
01:39:34,280 --> 01:39:36,800
Lambs are a short duration livestock.

1130
01:39:36,980 --> 01:39:37,800
We do have a few chickens.

1131
01:39:37,960 --> 01:39:39,020
We have chickens for a while.

1132
01:39:39,280 --> 01:39:42,580
Our neighbors is behind us, we have several neighbors on our street for the chickens.

1133
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:45,080
But I don't know if a lot of lines again.

1134
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:48,840
I don't know if my neighbors are part of the application, we'll ever have farm animals.

1135
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:50,440
They haven't told me they're planning to.

1136
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:54,400
But we do believe that having a designation to be consistent with the rest of our neighborhood

1137
01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:59,960
But it's fair, and as Mr. Warner mentioned, there are lots of benefits to having it.

1138
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:19,500
A designation, it's not just about these three lands that we're trying to raise for a few more months. We feel like this is trying to bring the zoning in line with the rest of the neighborhood and what we think is fair, and if we want to build a small greenhouse or a shadow, whatever in the future that benefits from having a designation, all of us believe that it's fair and can be consistent with the surrounding neighborhood.

1139
01:40:20,620 --> 01:40:26,560
Before I wrap up, I'd like to just address a few of the concerns that I've heard, both from our neighbors and also from some of you.

1140
01:40:28,280 --> 01:40:30,480
Honestly, the last thing we want is conflict or

1141
01:40:30,480 --> 01:40:33,200
contention with the neighbor neighbors, that's not in our nature.

1142
01:40:33,380 --> 01:40:35,640
We've tried really hard to work things out with our neighbors and

1143
01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:36,920
addressing any questions or issues.

1144
01:40:38,180 --> 01:40:41,700
I don't feel like the lands are that much of a nuisance personally,

1145
01:40:42,300 --> 01:40:44,580
but we've done everything we can to make sure that we don't feed them very

1146
01:40:44,580 --> 01:40:47,200
certain hours to make sure they're quiet and so forth.

1147
01:40:48,220 --> 01:40:50,780
I would say several of the neighbors and a few of you have asked about

1148
01:40:51,380 --> 01:40:53,660
the application of the all or nothing with the A.

1149
01:40:53,660 --> 01:41:01,980
So I think it's a true issue, and it's maybe one for the Council to consider, I don't think it's an appropriate consideration connection with this limited reason request.

1150
01:41:02,540 --> 01:41:08,820
We're one of thousands of properties of this size, and we've gone through a lengthy process journey to get this application approved.

1151
01:41:09,560 --> 01:41:15,920
But I would, you know, I think it makes sense perhaps for the City Council to consider changing some details about the count and otherwise.

1152
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:21,500
Most of our neighbors who have a concern about this, I think it can be summarized as they're worried that we're going to have cattle and horses.

1153
01:41:21,500 --> 01:41:26,080
I will say, if it came to our property, I think you'd agree, our lot is not when it makes

1154
01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:27,900
sense to have forces or cattle.

1155
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:32,440
We have a large touch-roggener back here, we have basketball court, the three lambs and

1156
01:41:32,440 --> 01:41:36,540
the handful of chickens we have now is about all we have room for it, and all we could

1157
01:41:36,540 --> 01:41:36,860
have.

1158
01:41:37,580 --> 01:41:40,320
And as I said, I don't think we'll even have lambs very much in the future.

1159
01:41:41,700 --> 01:41:46,380
That said, I don't think the zoning laws as they're written today should be applied to

1160
01:41:46,380 --> 01:41:51,040
specific properties to, you know, to try to prevent specific hypothetical future

1161
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:53,580
or course yours or cattle or whatever else.

1162
01:41:53,900 --> 01:41:55,880
Our view is there's, there's a lot of other laws.

1163
01:41:56,080 --> 01:41:58,700
The sandy city ordinance says, D1000, how many of the animals you can keep?

1164
01:41:58,840 --> 01:41:59,680
There's nuisance laws.

1165
01:42:00,200 --> 01:42:02,600
There's laws about how you have to, you know, keep your lot clean.

1166
01:42:03,080 --> 01:42:04,240
There are laws with setback.

1167
01:42:04,420 --> 01:42:05,740
There are animal cruelty laws.

1168
01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:09,320
There's all sorts of laws that I think can kind of restrict someone from putting a horse

1169
01:42:09,320 --> 01:42:12,200
in a 10 by 10 pattern for whatever animal or it's a lot.

1170
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:15,820
And candidly, those laws should apply to the thousands of a lots that are already

1171
01:42:15,820 --> 01:42:20,820
distance and not the in our view and issue for this limited application for these on the three

1172
01:42:20,820 --> 01:42:28,500
properties. Lastly, just to address some of the concerns of our good neighbor and his

1173
01:42:28,500 --> 01:42:33,480
Clark here, you know, everyone has a different perception of noise and different tolerances

1174
01:42:33,480 --> 01:42:37,980
for that and we appreciate and respect that. Our view is the lens really aren't that loud.

1175
01:42:38,320 --> 01:42:42,540
If you have experience with lens which I do, they're very quiet at night unless there's a

1176
01:42:42,540 --> 01:42:43,700
or attacking them or something.

1177
01:42:43,940 --> 01:42:45,540
They usually make noise when they're being fed.

1178
01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:47,840
Or if someone goes back to pet them or whatever,

1179
01:42:48,080 --> 01:42:49,920
but that noise is significantly quieter,

1180
01:42:50,160 --> 01:42:51,420
I would say, than most dogs in our neighborhood.

1181
01:42:52,300 --> 01:42:55,100
Quieter than the chickens that we have in our neighborhood.

1182
01:42:56,940 --> 01:42:59,700
And again, as I said, we do what we can to not be a nuisance

1183
01:42:59,700 --> 01:43:02,820
and defeat them, at least after 7 a.m.

1184
01:43:03,560 --> 01:43:04,820
or before 7 p.m.

1185
01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:06,580
And that's kind of when they'll be a little bit loud,

1186
01:43:07,040 --> 01:43:10,660
but as I said, quiet in dogs, there's some other,

1187
01:43:10,660 --> 01:43:13,300
I guess, accusations, things we just disagree about.

1188
01:43:13,440 --> 01:43:15,760
We have taken the lands on walks around the neighborhood a few times,

1189
01:43:15,820 --> 01:43:16,300
and we do that.

1190
01:43:16,480 --> 01:43:18,440
They're always on a halter, on a leash.

1191
01:43:19,260 --> 01:43:22,080
One of my kids follows with a little bucket and a broom and dust pan.

1192
01:43:22,300 --> 01:43:24,880
If they do defecate, which doesn't happen that much,

1193
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:27,580
it's similar to deer pellets in the inframental lands.

1194
01:43:27,780 --> 01:43:28,080
It's dry.

1195
01:43:28,620 --> 01:43:29,760
Around the other things, we sweep it up.

1196
01:43:29,820 --> 01:43:30,760
We take it on me throw it away.

1197
01:43:30,920 --> 01:43:32,860
That's been our consistent approach.

1198
01:43:33,400 --> 01:43:35,860
And frankly, that's a time that brings our neighborhood together.

1199
01:43:35,860 --> 01:43:38,380
Everyone comes out to see the lands and the dog walkers love that.

1200
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:39,720
And we think it's positive.

1201
01:43:39,720 --> 01:43:44,100
But I can promise you, they're not walking through people's yards and letting loose.

1202
01:43:44,200 --> 01:43:47,180
They're kept in the secure pan, which we keep as clean as we can in our backyard, which

1203
01:43:47,180 --> 01:43:49,160
isn't say that gated backyard,

1204
01:43:51,440 --> 01:43:54,240
and when we take them out, we're, I think, very conscientious.

1205
01:43:54,440 --> 01:43:58,940
It's possible that if the pieces we've found in someone's yard, it'll be from deer, but

1206
01:43:58,940 --> 01:44:01,760
I can assure you that it's not us taking our limbs and people's yards.

1207
01:44:05,780 --> 01:44:11,140
I think, I guess just lastly, I do really respect and appreciate Ms. Clark's history with

1208
01:44:11,140 --> 01:44:15,900
property. I didn't know when I acquired the property that she used to own the lot that we're on now

1209
01:44:15,900 --> 01:44:20,140
that wasn't anywhere in our title or any sorts of comments or restrictions. We bought this

1210
01:44:20,140 --> 01:44:24,780
free and clear. There's any other property and either property owner would. And while she has strong

1211
01:44:24,780 --> 01:44:30,200
opinions about what we should do in our yard, which includes the lands and chickens and tree houses

1212
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:35,620
and any any number of things, ultimately it's it's our property that we bought and we feel like

1213
01:44:35,620 --> 01:44:40,800
this should be viewed and assessed independently by the council of whether these three lots should

1214
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:45,980
of an aid designation and whether that's fair and you know we just respectfully don't think

1215
01:44:45,980 --> 01:44:50,200
that the ownership history of the land is relevant for who gets to determine now what

1216
01:44:50,200 --> 01:44:52,920
the zoning should be, which we believe is now the state council.

1217
01:44:53,400 --> 01:44:57,800
So, those, thank you for, for the time having answered further questions if there are any

1218
01:44:58,440 --> 01:44:59,460
questions before I turn the mic back over.

1219
01:45:01,940 --> 01:45:05,140
I don't think we have any questions. Thank you.

1220
01:45:06,660 --> 01:45:13,020
Okay, so that brings us to our next item on the agenda. Number five, I believe, is Melissa.

1221
01:45:14,560 --> 01:45:17,940
You will be presenting a minutes to land and don't develop that code.

1222
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:46,800
Okay, I'm just waiting for this to. There we go.

1223
01:45:47,360 --> 01:45:47,620
All right.

1224
01:45:48,920 --> 01:45:52,840
Thank you very much. Good evening, Madam Chair and the council.

1225
01:45:52,840 --> 01:45:55,820
So, tonight is a work session.

1226
01:45:55,820 --> 01:46:14,800
No decision is required tonight, but to give an overview of the proposed code amendments to the land development code to allow for detached accessory dwelling units, as well as some other updates to that section of the code.

1227
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:27,540
What I'm going to do is go over the state law SB 284 which was adopted this year and some policies in the general plan.

1228
01:46:27,920 --> 01:46:34,460
Summary of the proposed code amendments such as defining 80 years and extended living areas.

1229
01:46:34,960 --> 01:46:44,340
The application procedures where we're recommending locations and cities for these detached data use and some of the requirements for those.

1230
01:46:44,340 --> 01:46:54,240
We also have examples of ADUs to show you and also some layouts of building ADUs on different

1231
01:46:54,240 --> 01:47:00,680
lot sizes to show the feasibility of that from small lots to larger lots and lastly,

1232
01:47:02,160 --> 01:47:08,900
specific recommendation by the Planning Commission. Two weeks ago we had a public hearing

1233
01:47:08,900 --> 01:47:14,120
with the Planning Commission. They made their formal recommendation to city council

1234
01:47:14,120 --> 01:47:19,960
regarding this package. They do have some amendments that they would appreciate the council

1235
01:47:19,960 --> 01:47:27,840
to take into consideration. And so that the minutes were in the packet. And we've also

1236
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:33,740
included those modifications in the slideshow.

1237
01:47:35,980 --> 01:47:36,000
So,

1238
01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:39,620
not

1239
01:47:44,810 --> 01:47:46,610
sure if this is working or if you can

1240
01:47:46,610 --> 01:47:47,890
Let me move it forward.

1241
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:53,180
Just and you want to click on the screen back there and see if it will.

1242
01:47:56,140 --> 01:47:58,340
Oh, there we go. Thank you.

1243
01:47:59,420 --> 01:48:04,900
So the new state law is effective October 1st, so in a month.

1244
01:48:06,120 --> 01:48:19,560
And what it does is that requires cities such as Sandy to allow for detached accessory dwelling units on residential lots that are 11,000 square feet or 4th grader.

1245
01:48:20,580 --> 01:48:30,400
And in our general plan, we also have adopted policy specifically related to accessory dwelling units.

1246
01:48:31,160 --> 01:48:35,640
Generally, there's support for that in the general plan.

1247
01:48:36,020 --> 01:48:47,800
And it supports ADUs both attached and detached and to encourage a variety of housing options for different types of households.

1248
01:48:47,800 --> 01:48:56,580
The policies also include requirements for owner occupancy, mitigating impacts on neighboring

1249
01:48:56,580 --> 01:49:08,120
properties, and to ensure ADUs are subordinate to the primary structure, or not as large.

1250
01:49:11,880 --> 01:49:17,960
So it's both the state law as well as implementing our general plan that we have this

1251
01:49:17,960 --> 01:49:26,720
proposal for you. So first off, a lot of the code relates to whether you're talking about

1252
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:35,620
an accessory dwelling unit for versus an extended living area. In general, accessory dwelling

1253
01:49:35,620 --> 01:49:42,080
unit or ADU is a rental. It's a self-contained rental and it's going to be inside or outside

1254
01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:47,900
the house. So an adios, self-contained, how do we're living in it, it includes kitchen, bathroom,

1255
01:49:48,340 --> 01:49:55,260
sleeping areas that's used as a rental. Now we used to call them accessory apartments and we're

1256
01:49:55,260 --> 01:49:59,940
proposing to call them accessory dwelling units because that's more.

1257
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:23,540
Common terminology as well as consistent with state code. So if it's, and we've been allowing those as attached accessory apartment units, and a number of years ago, the state law required us to do so. So we've been, those have been allowed, it's just not the detached that have been addressed to date.

1258
01:50:23,540 --> 01:50:33,700
So, if it's attached, it's incorporated within the existing single-family home, and it will not substantially alter the structure or its appearance.

1259
01:50:34,040 --> 01:50:43,520
Now, if it was detached, it would be subordinate to and detached from the primary dwelling on the single-art or a parcel.

1260
01:50:44,600 --> 01:50:56,340
So, extended living areas are designed for use by the occupants of the primary dwelling on a non-rental basis for family, friends, etc.

1261
01:50:57,780 --> 01:51:03,700
If it's attached, it's additional living facilities within the primary single family dwelling.

1262
01:51:03,740 --> 01:51:10,580
It contains a kitchen or a kitchenette that may also have associated living quarters like a bathroom sleeping areas.

1263
01:51:10,580 --> 01:51:25,280
And if it's detached, it's additional living facilities detached for the primary single family dwelling that contains a kitchen, bathroom, sleeping area or other habitable living areas.

1264
01:51:26,160 --> 01:51:37,540
So the main thing about this is that an extended living area could not necessarily be totally so contained, but you may have a kitchen and a half bath.

1265
01:51:37,540 --> 01:51:47,500
It also could be fully self-contained so that it operates like an apartment and like a rental.

1266
01:51:49,640 --> 01:52:05,500
And so if an example of if it was detached in this definition, it would include things like a poolhouse that could have cooking facilities for barbecuing as well as a full bath with shower by the pool.

1267
01:52:05,500 --> 01:52:14,340
We've had a number of examples where people have gymnasiums with a number of things, you know,

1268
01:52:14,580 --> 01:52:18,620
washing facilities and mini-kitchens and things like that.

1269
01:52:18,700 --> 01:52:27,000
You could have offices and clients coming to visit you.

1270
01:52:27,140 --> 01:52:33,440
But basically it's habitable where you're going to have more intensive use as opposed to just a shed,

1271
01:52:33,440 --> 01:52:36,580
where you're just going there to store some things.

1272
01:52:37,380 --> 01:52:41,460
So in that sense, there is a distinguishing

1273
01:52:41,460 --> 01:52:45,280
between whether it is operating as a self-contained unit,

1274
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:48,940
that basically could operate like an apartment,

1275
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:50,720
you could rent it out or not rent it out.

1276
01:52:51,500 --> 01:52:55,680
Or it may have some of those habitable features,

1277
01:52:56,960 --> 01:52:59,340
but it's not totally so contained,

1278
01:52:59,520 --> 01:53:02,700
but it's close and it could easily be changed to something

1279
01:53:02,700 --> 01:53:10,560
like that. I recently had a two-story detached accessory structure like for the pool house but

1280
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:18,200
it was two stories and the key thing there is that it is the way our code is now, you could

1281
01:53:18,200 --> 01:53:32,680
be as close as two feet to the property lies. Well if it's two stories that you might have to

1282
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:37,860
Now it's you could just be really close to property line and so we're wanting to mitigate that.

1283
01:53:38,160 --> 01:53:39,480
So anyway, that's the difference.

1284
01:53:39,860 --> 01:53:43,420
What main thing is it's a rental or it's not in this.

1285
01:53:43,940 --> 01:53:52,060
You may have your extended family living there and so you're just wanting to accommodate that for a larger family setting.

1286
01:53:52,940 --> 01:53:57,340
So application process very similar, but extended living areas.

1287
01:53:57,340 --> 01:54:02,480
It's typically through a building permit, and at that time we review it, and it's an affidavit.

1288
01:54:02,660 --> 01:54:08,800
It doesn't really take any longer than the normal building permit price process.

1289
01:54:09,420 --> 01:54:14,580
An affidavit is signed by the owner, and our building staff actually recorded for them.

1290
01:54:15,240 --> 01:54:20,660
Accessory dwelling unit for a rental, same process, it's through the building permit.

1291
01:54:20,660 --> 01:54:27,800
We have a affidavit, it's different if it's for an apartment or I mean a rental.

1292
01:54:28,600 --> 01:54:33,560
But along with that, there's a special use permit and business license that goes along

1293
01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:34,760
with that.

1294
01:54:37,790 --> 01:54:40,310
So for post locations for detached data use.

1295
01:54:41,010 --> 01:54:46,770
So required by state law is would be in residential zones on property 11,000 square feet

1296
01:54:46,770 --> 01:54:53,030
or greater incision. That's what the current recommendation is in the text proposal.

1297
01:54:53,710 --> 01:54:59,930
However, staff does support and would like the Council to consider expanding.

1298
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:13,260
Any eligible areas or smaller block sizes in the future. Included in the packet here is some maps that show eligible potential properties.

1299
01:55:14,380 --> 01:55:24,020
So this shows if the lot is a residential zone, it's 11,000 square feet or larger, and these residential zones would be single-family zones.

1300
01:55:25,540 --> 01:55:40,240
And we took out the properties that were like a school of park that would include a lot of acres or square feet, but really wouldn't be applicable for this exercise.

1301
01:55:40,680 --> 01:55:45,260
This is an estimate, but it shows those properties that have the potential.

1302
01:55:45,260 --> 01:55:52,080
and it's about 20% of Sandy as this analysis shows.

1303
01:55:52,360 --> 01:55:58,400
It also shows areas for a transit station because that relates to parking,

1304
01:55:58,780 --> 01:56:02,420
one of the caveats of this proposal is,

1305
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:05,460
if you were within half a mile of the station,

1306
01:56:05,600 --> 01:56:08,340
potentially you could have a reduction in parking.

1307
01:56:09,300 --> 01:56:12,960
The other map is showing 10,000 square lots.

1308
01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:22,720
And that shows about a 5% increase in the potential area of Sandy that could be accommodated

1309
01:56:22,720 --> 01:56:28,440
or would be impacted by allowing ADUs on those properties.

1310
01:56:28,860 --> 01:56:32,380
And then this shows a lot that are 8,000 square feet or larger.

1311
01:56:33,080 --> 01:56:38,780
In Sandy, the R18 Zone, which is minimum loss, I say 8,000 square feet.

1312
01:56:38,940 --> 01:56:41,000
That's our most predominant zone in Sandy.

1313
01:56:41,000 --> 01:56:53,620
We do have R175, R166 as well, so it does go smaller, but these just shows the areas

1314
01:56:53,620 --> 01:57:02,440
of Sandy that could be accommodating 80 use if it's depending on what areas you want to include.

1315
01:57:03,020 --> 01:57:08,760
So some of the standards that we do now, we'd like to or recommending to continue and

1316
01:57:08,760 --> 01:57:14,360
those standards work would be that especially use permit and business

1317
01:57:14,360 --> 01:57:21,800
sizes for the ADU would be required. It would affect those areas that are

1318
01:57:21,800 --> 01:57:27,600
residential single-family areas. The standards would be clear and objective.

1319
01:57:28,600 --> 01:57:35,000
Owner occupancy to be required. Only one address and utility meter and also

1320
01:57:35,000 --> 01:57:37,700
these affidavits that are recorded on a lot.

1321
01:57:39,160 --> 01:57:42,640
So in the proposal, we're recommending the maximum number

1322
01:57:42,640 --> 01:57:46,220
of ADUs allowed on a lot to be one.

1323
01:57:46,420 --> 01:57:50,120
And that could be either attached inside the home,

1324
01:57:50,360 --> 01:57:53,300
a rental, or outside the home detached,

1325
01:57:53,600 --> 01:57:55,920
but no more than one, one of the other.

1326
01:57:56,600 --> 01:57:59,620
And then if we're looking at the detached,

1327
01:58:00,720 --> 01:58:08,240
only one detached self-contained habitable living unit. It could be an ADU or an extended living

1328
01:58:08,240 --> 01:58:14,100
area because if you have this rental and it's a detached ADU and then you decide I don't want

1329
01:58:14,100 --> 01:58:24,100
to rent it anymore. The renter has moved on and I've decided I want my children, my adult

1330
01:58:24,100 --> 01:58:29,000
children to live here or child to live there, then it would be extended living area.

1331
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:31,480
which is revered to that.

1332
01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:39,420
So only one, as opposed to multiple of these detached on the lot.

1333
01:58:40,340 --> 01:58:44,200
And inside the home, extended living areas are not limited

1334
01:58:44,200 --> 01:58:47,700
within the primary dwelling, but only one, maybe,

1335
01:58:47,740 --> 01:58:50,280
of fully self-contained habitable living units.

1336
01:58:50,840 --> 01:58:55,600
So what this is trying to do is to limit the number

1337
01:58:55,600 --> 01:59:02,600
of potential rentals, someone could be renting out, you know, oh, this unit, detach this unit inside.

1338
01:59:05,180 --> 01:59:20,440
And so, and if the structure can accommodate it, it's often that someone might use it for that without the proper permitting or the proper license and like that.

1339
01:59:20,440 --> 01:59:27,700
this is trying to spell out that there are limits to how many of these that you can have.

1340
01:59:27,900 --> 01:59:31,760
Before you move on, if you could go back to that, Ms. Christiansen had a question.

1341
01:59:32,360 --> 01:59:34,580
Yeah. Oh, we have more. We have several. Just second.

1342
01:59:34,680 --> 01:59:38,680
I just want to like, when I'm reading through this and I've got to note about this,

1343
01:59:38,740 --> 01:59:41,540
I just want to make sure and understanding correctly.

1344
01:59:42,260 --> 01:59:48,000
We're recommending that they're allowed to have one detached ADU, which we have to do.

1345
01:59:48,000 --> 01:59:53,040
but they're also allowed to have a short-term rental inside their home.

1346
01:59:57,220 --> 01:59:58,760
That's it. I'm not.

1347
02:00:00,530 --> 02:00:15,770
Yes. Okay, so this doesn't address addresses like how it's constructed. It doesn't necessarily address

1348
02:00:15,770 --> 02:00:22,850
short-term rentals, but I'll answer first, short-term rentals are not the proposal, does

1349
02:00:22,850 --> 02:00:31,870
not allow a short-term rental in a detached, date, date, and internally, yes, they are allowed,

1350
02:00:31,990 --> 02:00:42,150
but you can't have multiple of these, you can do one or the other, you can't have a short-term

1351
02:00:42,150 --> 02:00:49,010
and then another fully apartment self-contained AU.

1352
02:00:50,270 --> 02:00:53,930
Okay, because I just, when I read it, like, thank you for clarifying it.

1353
02:00:53,950 --> 02:00:56,590
I just don't see that called out in here anywhere.

1354
02:00:56,770 --> 02:00:58,410
Yeah, that's actually a good point.

1355
02:00:58,630 --> 02:01:02,870
It's like, if it's not clear, maybe we need more clarity on that.

1356
02:01:03,490 --> 02:01:06,970
Because this slide is talking about, but it doesn't address that.

1357
02:01:07,010 --> 02:01:11,370
It's another part of the code, but let me, I'd like to make a note of that.

1358
02:01:11,370 --> 02:01:13,750
Okay, it looks not talking about this slide.

1359
02:01:14,130 --> 02:01:23,290
No, I'm talking about like the document that you can have one of each where they are and what you do with them is the only difference, right?

1360
02:01:23,470 --> 02:01:31,270
Yeah, yeah, so it's this isn't about short term rentals, so you can have one of each, but you know more than one, you think you can't.

1361
02:01:31,430 --> 02:01:34,450
So she's saying either or you cannot have both.

1362
02:01:34,630 --> 02:01:35,430
Yeah, that's what I think.

1363
02:01:35,430 --> 02:01:48,130
on ELA or an ADU, or both extended living area, that can be detached or inside the subject

1364
02:01:48,130 --> 02:01:48,850
walls.

1365
02:01:49,910 --> 02:01:55,430
So, and a short-term rental is considered, we're not talking about short-term rentals.

1366
02:01:55,910 --> 02:01:56,290
Oh, you are.

1367
02:01:56,290 --> 02:02:01,990
No, I'm specifically, because in here is a short-term rental prohibited in the detached unit,

1368
02:02:02,170 --> 02:02:04,570
but they are allowed within the primary structure.

1369
02:02:04,570 --> 02:02:14,330
But so to me that says that you can have an ADU and yeah, yeah, you wouldn't be able to have that would basically be two

1370
02:02:14,330 --> 02:02:21,930
Reynolds one a doctor and so you wouldn't be able the intent is that you would not be okay able to have both and so

1371
02:02:22,270 --> 02:02:27,190
It could be we could have a clarification on this my guess the text right here

1372
02:02:27,190 --> 02:02:31,370
So just like if that's true we can only have either or in one property

1373
02:02:31,370 --> 02:02:34,050
I suggest like clarification.

1374
02:02:35,290 --> 02:02:35,450
Yeah.

1375
02:02:35,450 --> 02:02:35,750
Yeah.

1376
02:02:35,750 --> 02:02:35,850
Yeah.

1377
02:02:35,850 --> 02:02:36,270
I'll clarify.

1378
02:02:36,270 --> 02:02:37,050
I'll clarify.

1379
02:02:37,750 --> 02:02:40,130
I'll be reculated to the ML.

1380
02:02:41,070 --> 02:02:44,370
So I don't know if we want to liken this with short term rentals rather than.

1381
02:02:45,730 --> 02:02:46,910
We'll just keep it in half of it out.

1382
02:02:46,970 --> 02:02:47,890
You can have a rental.

1383
02:02:48,550 --> 02:02:48,990
Yeah.

1384
02:02:49,290 --> 02:02:52,590
It's just because we're all 30 days and that's not a short term rental.

1385
02:02:52,810 --> 02:02:55,130
The amendments in one of our documents.

1386
02:02:55,490 --> 02:02:56,470
It called it out in the analysis.

1387
02:02:56,730 --> 02:02:57,870
So that's why I'm just saying.

1388
02:02:58,070 --> 02:03:01,350
Just to clarify, the intent is that you want to ensure that.

1389
02:03:01,350 --> 02:03:07,390
someone that is renting out one of these spaces, whether it's internal or external if they're having the

1390
02:03:07,390 --> 02:03:10,670
NSTR, they can't also have an ADU.

1391
02:03:11,090 --> 02:03:13,290
Well, that's not a question to you guys. Is that what you're saying?

1392
02:03:13,550 --> 02:03:14,570
And that you cannot.

1393
02:03:14,990 --> 02:03:16,190
That is correct.

1394
02:03:16,770 --> 02:03:19,630
Because you're hoping that it's more clear to me.

1395
02:03:20,210 --> 02:03:24,030
Because the way I read this, I would read this and say, I can have both.

1396
02:03:24,030 --> 02:03:24,330
Oh, right.

1397
02:03:25,730 --> 02:03:26,030
So.

1398
02:03:26,810 --> 02:03:28,710
We can work on some clarifying language.

1399
02:03:28,910 --> 02:03:30,210
Okay, thank you.

1400
02:03:31,740 --> 02:03:33,040
Mr. Sussan.

1401
02:03:33,480 --> 02:03:33,580
Thank you.

1402
02:03:33,580 --> 02:03:37,160
My question is kind of around what the discussion has been because it's not completely

1403
02:03:37,160 --> 02:03:38,220
clear to me either.

1404
02:03:39,320 --> 02:03:45,760
So when we talk about an ADU, are we using that term to define the name, like, to name

1405
02:03:45,760 --> 02:03:51,100
the structure, or are we naming the, like, the, the, the, the, the, the, the rental aspect

1406
02:03:51,100 --> 02:03:56,280
the purpose because having one doesn't necessarily mean that it's going, that it's actively

1407
02:03:56,280 --> 02:04:05,460
being rented to, and so the only one, ADU, on an attached law, are we saying only one

1408
02:04:05,460 --> 02:04:12,900
self-contained structure, or are we saying we can only have one in operation as a rental?

1409
02:04:14,620 --> 02:04:24,930
Yeah, in the definition, that is helpful if you want to scroll to the actual specific language

1410
02:04:24,930 --> 02:04:32,530
the definition because we try to work hard on that. I'd say it's both and let's take the

1411
02:04:32,530 --> 02:04:40,490
example that it's just detached from the home that you may start out where you do want to

1412
02:04:40,490 --> 02:04:47,530
rent it out and the idea is that it's fully self-contained. It doesn't have just a mini kitchen.

1413
02:04:47,530 --> 02:04:50,190
It has the kitchen or many kitchen.

1414
02:04:50,370 --> 02:04:53,170
It has a full bathroom sleeping area.

1415
02:04:53,490 --> 02:04:57,750
So it can function self-contains to support someone

1416
02:04:57,750 --> 02:04:59,130
to live there.

1417
02:05:00,460 --> 02:05:10,560
You may start out running it and then a year later you may decide I don't want to run anymore because my daughter's moving back and I want her to live there.

1418
02:05:11,080 --> 02:05:18,540
Then it would you wouldn't renew your permit or business license and it would just revert to an extended living area for your family.

1419
02:05:18,540 --> 02:05:28,360
We do this now for internal addues, so it's the same process that we do for accessory apartments, which is what we're called an internal accessory apartment.

1420
02:05:28,960 --> 02:05:37,340
Or ADU is classified that way. And in the same structure as far as extended living areas, we're just applying to detached structures.

1421
02:05:37,340 --> 02:05:46,240
Okay, so a home that has a mother-in-law apartment, let's say, that it's like fully self-certainty.

1422
02:05:46,860 --> 02:05:48,060
Fully self-contained.

1423
02:05:48,320 --> 02:05:52,300
Separate could be rented out, you know, with going into your process.

1424
02:05:53,120 --> 02:06:00,740
But this household or property owner would like to build a structure detached that may also serve this purpose.

1425
02:06:01,600 --> 02:06:03,240
The allowance of that structure.

1426
02:06:03,240 --> 02:06:07,980
There's an allowance for that structure, but only one can be rented, right?

1427
02:06:08,300 --> 02:06:12,360
I do think that the way that we're talking about this is really confusing because,

1428
02:06:12,560 --> 02:06:16,700
to me, like the accessory dwelling unit is more of like the structure,

1429
02:06:17,200 --> 02:06:20,240
not doesn't have anything to do with the active rental aspect.

1430
02:06:20,980 --> 02:06:24,580
And so even like in real estate when you're listing homes,

1431
02:06:24,940 --> 02:06:30,340
you would say there's been new provisions now that this home has an accessory dwelling unit,

1432
02:06:30,340 --> 02:06:40,320
But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's actively being rented, it's just an accessory structure that's used for that could be used for dwelling or habitable in that way.

1433
02:06:40,740 --> 02:06:48,580
And so in our code, our definitions clearly map out that it's intended for rental use.

1434
02:06:48,580 --> 02:06:54,620
And in code, it's very common that we are piecing things together.

1435
02:06:55,800 --> 02:07:01,280
And so when we are not sure what that term, we'll go to that definition and then that informs us.

1436
02:07:01,480 --> 02:07:04,760
Some of that is reducing repetition and like that.

1437
02:07:05,020 --> 02:07:06,100
It's just different.

1438
02:07:07,080 --> 02:07:10,700
And part of that is because of the owner occupancy requirement.

1439
02:07:11,940 --> 02:07:17,720
I would, I would, anytime a real-liter calls and ask whether an ADU is potential on this

1440
02:07:17,720 --> 02:07:23,300
property, because they have an existing kitchen, you know, area in the basement, and they

1441
02:07:23,300 --> 02:07:24,560
want to be able to rent it out.

1442
02:07:25,020 --> 02:07:33,240
I always clarify that it is not pre-approved for an ADU because it depends on whether they get

1443
02:07:33,240 --> 02:07:39,420
a permit and they have to show that it's on our occupied and they can't just turn it into

1444
02:07:39,420 --> 02:07:41,440
I do collect and rent out both the top and the bottom.

1445
02:07:41,640 --> 02:07:47,140
I guess I'm asking the practical, the practicality of I come to the city and I say I want to build an accessory structure.

1446
02:07:47,300 --> 02:07:53,420
What are you going to require me? Do I have to have a special use permit to even build that?

1447
02:07:54,740 --> 02:07:56,460
Well, yeah building permit initially.

1448
02:07:56,480 --> 02:08:00,340
I didn't say building, I said special use permit because it depends on your intent.

1449
02:08:01,300 --> 02:08:03,020
It depends on how they plan to use the structure.

1450
02:08:03,020 --> 02:08:08,780
Well, okay, so it's so a detached extended living there could be a detached extended living area

1451
02:08:09,560 --> 02:08:15,980
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's part of the definitional changes that we're talking about. Right. That's there's four different definitions

1452
02:08:15,980 --> 02:08:22,020
That's what she I think I'm just gonna say in my opinion, and I'm gonna read through this and maybe you know

1453
02:08:22,020 --> 02:08:25,140
That may change and read through it again. I should say

1454
02:08:25,140 --> 02:08:28,240
But the way that we're talking about it isn't necessarily

1455
02:08:28,860 --> 02:08:30,740
consistent with how like

1456
02:08:30,740 --> 02:08:35,060
people are using the terminology and it is really confusing to

1457
02:08:35,060 --> 02:08:41,520
consider the structure as a purpose, as a purpose in the way that we are.

1458
02:08:42,100 --> 02:08:47,000
So those are my thoughts, doesn't necessarily need to be responded to now, but it's

1459
02:08:47,000 --> 02:08:47,280
confusing.

1460
02:08:49,300 --> 02:08:54,200
Some of it is complicated just because we were having to spell it out.

1461
02:08:54,200 --> 02:08:59,280
Well, that's so my question, I can have both, but only rent one.

1462
02:08:59,280 --> 02:09:07,600
go back? Is that Mike? I can have both but I can only rent one. Correct. You can have

1463
02:09:07,600 --> 02:09:12,380
a detached structure that I call that ace. That is correct.

1464
02:09:15,970 --> 02:09:17,210
How are we going to police

1465
02:09:17,210 --> 02:09:25,690
that? It's just like you police it now. So we don't. No, well, it's complete base, like, and

1466
02:09:25,690 --> 02:09:29,870
how do we prove that? Well, does this deal allow us to do for proving that? Same thing

1467
02:09:29,870 --> 02:09:37,010
that we do for, that we've done for internal apartments, the same thing we do for our

1468
02:09:37,010 --> 02:09:37,290
community.

1469
02:09:37,590 --> 02:09:42,970
But typically, we would only know is if we have a building permit, if people go and make

1470
02:09:42,970 --> 02:09:50,450
renovations without building permits, it would not necessarily look no.

1471
02:09:50,750 --> 02:09:57,210
And then if there is a complaint that we would research about that property, or if they're selling

1472
02:09:57,210 --> 02:09:59,950
and then they're needing to know what's legal, what's not.

1473
02:10:01,460 --> 02:10:28,060
But just as Michael was saying, it's just as we do now that at the building permit, we're going to be looking at the floor plans of building the additions, everything, and oh, if this is an extended living area, then that's what we will default to, but if they want to rent it out, we say you need a special use permit with business license. And it's at that time that we communicate and administer that.

1474
02:10:28,060 --> 02:10:36,140
So if someone has a large number of property that they can have two structures on it, like a garage in an ADU,

1475
02:10:36,460 --> 02:10:42,900
and they decide they don't want to rent out their ADU any more, can they go to another one?

1476
02:10:43,620 --> 02:10:45,060
Oh, if another detached?

1477
02:10:45,420 --> 02:10:45,720
Yeah.

1478
02:10:46,200 --> 02:10:47,360
If they've got to big enough lot.

1479
02:10:48,320 --> 02:10:54,980
They can only build with one, one, or one shed, like remind me how this goes, and one ADU.

1480
02:10:54,980 --> 02:10:59,640
So you're allowed to have up to two accessory structures on a single-family residential property.

1481
02:10:59,840 --> 02:11:02,080
The only exception of that is a designated properties.

1482
02:11:02,780 --> 02:11:07,920
So if someone could, if they didn't have a shed, build two accessory dwelling units, it's gonna only rent out one.

1483
02:11:08,120 --> 02:11:08,640
No.

1484
02:11:09,420 --> 02:11:09,480
No.

1485
02:11:09,480 --> 02:11:17,580
Well, only because it's only one self-contained, habitable, detached.

1486
02:11:18,200 --> 02:11:21,260
So one detached ADU would be allowed.

1487
02:11:21,780 --> 02:11:23,960
You could have a detached office.

1488
02:11:25,300 --> 02:11:27,640
Or, you know, work out room or something like that.

1489
02:11:28,040 --> 02:11:29,920
It would be a detached extended living area,

1490
02:11:30,660 --> 02:11:34,060
but only one could be a fully self-contained ADU.

1491
02:11:34,280 --> 02:11:36,540
That met that definition of a detached ADU.

1492
02:11:36,680 --> 02:11:37,900
I know I'm skipping a little bit,

1493
02:11:38,060 --> 02:11:40,300
but like, is this something that would go through

1494
02:11:40,300 --> 02:11:43,700
the administrative court judge?

1495
02:11:43,840 --> 02:11:44,780
Oh, you mean, if it was-

1496
02:11:44,780 --> 02:11:45,580
As far as enforcement?

1497
02:11:45,940 --> 02:11:50,680
Yeah, I mean, are we going to put in penalties into this?

1498
02:11:50,800 --> 02:11:52,680
Should we be adding penalties into this?

1499
02:11:52,680 --> 02:11:59,960
So if you start renting out an unapproved data you the your fine decks amount of dollars per day or whatever we choose

1500
02:11:59,960 --> 02:12:02,220
Should we be adding this to that?

1501
02:12:02,280 --> 02:12:04,160
Well, I can now James speak to that

1502
02:12:07,690 --> 02:12:15,870
You forgive me a little bit ahead of ourselves. I think we first need to get an ordinance in place and see how it runs and see how it works and

1503
02:12:15,870 --> 02:12:22,290
If we find violations we could certainly come to you to tighten things up if that's what the council wants to do and I totally respect

1504
02:12:22,290 --> 02:12:25,110
And we could go to the ALJ or we could do whatever.

1505
02:12:25,950 --> 02:12:29,470
But I think what we're trying to accomplish here,

1506
02:12:29,890 --> 02:12:32,270
we're just trying to get an ordinance in place first

1507
02:12:32,270 --> 02:12:35,870
to comply with state law and then see how it works.

1508
02:12:36,470 --> 02:12:38,670
And let's run it for a while before we decide

1509
02:12:38,670 --> 02:12:41,650
how to, yeah, I'm not willing to put an ordinance,

1510
02:12:41,650 --> 02:12:45,910
not put an ordinance in place for this without the penalties

1511
02:12:45,910 --> 02:12:47,450
for breaking it.

1512
02:12:47,450 --> 02:12:51,070
I think that's very important for someone in terms of illegal.

1513
02:12:51,070 --> 02:12:53,150
and like enforcement and so forth.

1514
02:12:53,210 --> 02:13:01,070
Well, when we put the coding place, obviously, we're going to have a code that we're going to look at.

1515
02:13:01,130 --> 02:13:06,570
And once the code is in place, and once the council has decided, we have a code that we have to enforce.

1516
02:13:07,290 --> 02:13:12,790
The code in itself is enforceable, and if people aren't living by that, then we enforce that code.

1517
02:13:13,310 --> 02:13:16,810
So I wouldn't worry as much about putting extra stuff in it right now.

1518
02:13:16,810 --> 02:13:24,150
Let's get the code in place and see if it works and then determine if we're having a lot of problems we can tighten it up

1519
02:13:24,150 --> 02:13:31,170
But we'll once we have a code we can enforce that code and that's that is good enough for us to take it to an LJ or wherever our

1520
02:13:31,170 --> 02:13:39,830
processes. If you want financial penalties. If you want financial penalties. If you want financial penalties and that's certainly something the city council could look out and do.

1521
02:13:39,830 --> 02:13:41,370
Okay, thank you.

1522
02:13:41,610 --> 02:13:42,170
Mr. Erky?

1523
02:13:43,890 --> 02:13:45,250
Hey, James, don't go well.

1524
02:13:46,550 --> 02:13:49,610
And it may be helpful to get through the rest of the presentation

1525
02:13:49,610 --> 02:13:52,610
and then we can start answering some of these questions

1526
02:13:52,610 --> 02:13:54,050
as they come up.

1527
02:13:55,610 --> 02:13:56,990
But, you know what's confusing?

1528
02:13:57,250 --> 02:13:57,770
You know what?

1529
02:13:57,930 --> 02:13:58,310
Okay.

1530
02:13:58,890 --> 02:14:02,950
So we all understand STRs and why and how that happened.

1531
02:14:04,790 --> 02:14:08,230
We all understand ADUs and why and how that happened.

1532
02:14:08,230 --> 02:14:13,290
Now we were told we're going to have to comply with detached ADUs.

1533
02:14:13,710 --> 02:14:14,230
We get it.

1534
02:14:14,510 --> 02:14:16,970
We're STR, ADU, DADU.

1535
02:14:17,790 --> 02:14:20,150
You know what's the most confusing part, ELAs?

1536
02:14:22,530 --> 02:14:35,010
Why did we decide that we had to define limit control, living areas that were not rented,

1537
02:14:35,010 --> 02:14:42,190
But just part of the intended use of the home owner, why did we need to fold that in here?

1538
02:14:42,410 --> 02:14:45,430
It seems like that is the complicating and confusing fact.

1539
02:14:46,570 --> 02:14:53,070
That's part of our original code before the IADU ordinance by the state was imposed.

1540
02:14:53,410 --> 02:14:55,610
We have an accessory apartment standard.

1541
02:14:56,270 --> 02:14:57,870
We've allowed that for years.

1542
02:14:58,450 --> 02:14:59,910
Well before the state told us we had to.

1543
02:15:01,140 --> 02:15:08,660
And we've also had a definition for extended living areas, and that was always defined based on how it was used.

1544
02:15:09,120 --> 02:15:16,240
It was fine to have a mother-in-law apartment. If it was for your mother-in-law, it was for your family, for extended family occupancy.

1545
02:15:16,860 --> 02:15:24,520
But once it was used for the purpose of renting it out, it became an accessory apartment. That's how our current code is written.

1546
02:15:24,520 --> 02:15:31,000
We're extending that same paradigm, that same splitting of how those spaces are utilized

1547
02:15:31,440 --> 02:15:32,220
for detached.

1548
02:15:32,400 --> 02:15:36,380
That's the only thing that we're adding is a detached and we're changing the name

1549
02:15:36,380 --> 02:15:41,140
from accessory department to the more commonly used ADU.

1550
02:15:41,840 --> 02:15:46,640
Because that's what people are using for whether it's internal or external, detached

1551
02:15:46,640 --> 02:15:50,600
accessory dwelling is what people are using for that term.

1552
02:15:51,080 --> 02:15:53,480
So that's the more commonly used terminology.

1553
02:15:54,020 --> 02:15:59,900
Everything else within the home or external to the home, it depends on how it's being utilized.

1554
02:16:01,020 --> 02:16:09,920
And if it's being used for purpose of rental, that's when it also requires a permit to be obtained to for that use.

1555
02:16:10,600 --> 02:16:12,980
It's still not calling that out anymore.

1556
02:16:13,060 --> 02:16:18,040
If you're saying it's been there forever and it's part of our code and we're just trying to clarify.

1557
02:16:18,960 --> 02:16:27,480
because an ELA could or could not be an ADU depending on how it was designed, right?

1558
02:16:27,640 --> 02:16:35,040
If it's completely freestand and habitable, you could use it as an ADU or you could use it as an ELA.

1559
02:16:36,540 --> 02:16:42,680
It's both a matter of how it is configured and designed and who's going to occupy it.

1560
02:16:43,120 --> 02:16:45,040
Are they paying rent or are they not paying rent?

1561
02:16:45,040 --> 02:16:46,640
Yeah, as if it's on our market.

1562
02:16:47,160 --> 02:16:50,340
And I think the other side of it is the market

1563
02:16:50,340 --> 02:16:52,860
has kind of changed in how people are utilizing

1564
02:16:52,860 --> 02:16:54,920
their properties, especially since COVID,

1565
02:16:56,060 --> 02:16:59,740
as far as having these accessory buildings

1566
02:17:00,440 --> 02:17:04,280
that used to be primarily just a shed or garage.

1567
02:17:04,900 --> 02:17:07,600
But we're seeing a lot of people wanting to have

1568
02:17:07,600 --> 02:17:12,420
a detached gym or a detached office or other living areas

1569
02:17:12,420 --> 02:17:14,260
that would normally just be part of the house.

1570
02:17:14,260 --> 02:17:21,420
But they're utilizing these accessory structures for different purposes, for living and occupying those spaces.

1571
02:17:22,460 --> 02:17:35,740
And we felt like those also needed to be part of this amendment, so that those uses and how those are being lived in are not set to feet from the property line.

1572
02:17:36,460 --> 02:17:39,920
They have a greater impact than just having a shed in the corner of the lot.

1573
02:17:39,920 --> 02:17:48,640
If they're utilized for occupancy of and living of the family that on the lot, that's good clarification.

1574
02:17:48,740 --> 02:17:49,700
That's part of it.

1575
02:17:49,760 --> 02:17:54,120
We care about, we care about a more of their detached than if they're attached.

1576
02:17:55,520 --> 02:17:56,400
Ailes, okay.

1577
02:17:59,830 --> 02:18:00,270
How,

1578
02:18:02,840 --> 02:18:06,420
I'm sorry, I know you missed part of this from last year.

1579
02:18:08,780 --> 02:18:14,880
How does the city collect revenue to offset the cost of administering this?

1580
02:18:15,120 --> 02:18:21,020
Are they, are they, are they, are they, are they receiving they're not going to be, commercial properties now if you have an ADU so we're not getting 100% of your tax revenue.

1581
02:18:21,240 --> 02:18:23,640
Still only getting the residential discount right?

1582
02:18:23,640 --> 02:18:29,780
I mean, through the building, are we just, is there a standard, like, increased the county's

1583
02:18:29,780 --> 02:18:37,040
going to apply to, so they're going to, everyone who applies for needy youth in theory,

1584
02:18:37,220 --> 02:18:40,640
the county's going to increase the value of their homes.

1585
02:18:41,020 --> 02:18:42,740
Yeah, but I'm sure you could have a license.

1586
02:18:43,020 --> 02:18:45,780
I mean, we're getting some value from license, you know.

1587
02:18:46,340 --> 02:18:47,520
We don't have any control.

1588
02:18:47,720 --> 02:18:48,340
I don't know.

1589
02:18:48,340 --> 02:18:53,580
it's like been something that's come in with this discussion.

1590
02:18:54,460 --> 02:18:58,540
So, as far as I'm concerned, are the county a path forward on that?

1591
02:18:58,840 --> 02:19:01,020
I'm not sure the question, can you.

1592
02:19:01,100 --> 02:19:05,340
So, when someone decides to build an 80 on their property, and then it has to leave you.

1593
02:19:05,600 --> 02:19:11,140
I'm assuming, then the county, because we have business licenses, will increase the value of their homes,

1594
02:19:11,520 --> 02:19:12,980
so they'll pay more property taxes.

1595
02:19:14,220 --> 02:19:14,980
That says that.

1596
02:19:14,980 --> 02:19:15,320
That says that.

1597
02:19:15,320 --> 02:19:16,160
I have no idea.

1598
02:19:17,040 --> 02:19:21,280
Yeah, I mean they could assess the home differently and increase the value of theater

1599
02:19:21,280 --> 02:19:22,940
It hasn't been like brought up

1600
02:19:22,940 --> 02:19:26,040
No, we're not really looking at that part

1601
02:19:26,040 --> 02:19:27,840
I was just the land use part right now

1602
02:19:27,840 --> 02:19:29,660
And how much are we charging for business license?

1603
02:19:29,880 --> 02:19:32,060
We would have to determine that

1604
02:19:32,060 --> 02:19:34,620
It's just the same thing that is what we do now

1605
02:19:34,620 --> 02:19:38,060
I mean we have a small fee when we have a building permit coming in

1606
02:19:38,060 --> 02:19:39,780
In terms of our planning review

1607
02:19:39,780 --> 02:19:43,520
As well as the fee for our inspectors

1608
02:19:43,520 --> 02:19:44,320
Just like building

1609
02:19:44,320 --> 02:19:48,680
also allows additional people to city and roads and water and I mean there's a lot of things

1610
02:19:48,680 --> 02:19:57,100
okay that answered my question thank you okay I'm going to hold mine because you said you'd

1611
02:19:57,100 --> 02:19:59,040
like to finish the presentation

1612
02:20:00,210 --> 02:20:06,970
Oh, Mr. DeKazar, see you. No, you change your mind. You're going to wait to the end of the presentation, do you?

1613
02:20:07,310 --> 02:20:10,650
I just wanted to see the presentation. Continue, thank you.

1614
02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:20,240
Okay.

1615
02:20:23,630 --> 02:20:33,490
Okay, parking spaces. So the state allows us to require additional parking space for a detached ADU.

1616
02:20:33,490 --> 02:20:42,490
Now, it's good to know the contacts because all single family homes are required to have four spaces on site already.

1617
02:20:43,450 --> 02:20:50,390
And actually the state limit system requiring any more than those four spaces except for the detaching to use.

1618
02:20:50,950 --> 02:20:54,190
So two are in the garage and two are in the driveway.

1619
02:20:54,570 --> 02:20:56,650
That's the baseline requirement.

1620
02:20:56,650 --> 02:21:04,390
And even if they have, you know, a apartment inside that that's as many as we can

1621
02:21:04,390 --> 02:21:04,710
as part.

1622
02:21:04,970 --> 02:21:13,470
But for detesting use, they allow us to require additional and so a maximum of one

1623
02:21:13,470 --> 02:21:19,690
parking space if the detesting view is less than 650 square feet.

1624
02:21:19,690 --> 02:21:22,770
And if it's more than that, we can require two additional.

1625
02:21:23,550 --> 02:21:25,210
And they can also can be tandem.

1626
02:21:25,210 --> 02:21:31,430
So if you put one behind the other, it doesn't have to be covered or in a garage, you can do that

1627
02:21:31,430 --> 02:21:34,970
be it has to be paved on site for them to park there.

1628
02:21:35,490 --> 02:21:45,310
So the proposal is going with what the state allows us to and it will be one parking space for a smaller

1629
02:21:45,310 --> 02:21:51,310
one and two parking spaces if it's 650 square feet or larger, but if you're within a half a mile

1630
02:21:51,310 --> 02:21:56,070
of a transit station and on one of those, on those slides it showed the transit stations

1631
02:21:56,070 --> 02:22:01,810
which were really more down in, uh, close to this area as opposed to, um, uh, close to

1632
02:22:01,810 --> 02:22:09,230
the mountains is, uh, would, you could reduce it by one parking space. So, uh, that's the,

1633
02:22:09,290 --> 02:22:17,130
the parking requirement. And so maximum size, um, one of the policies is that it be subordinate

1634
02:22:17,130 --> 02:22:28,170
in size detached data use, so our proposal is that it be no more than 75% or less than

1635
02:22:28,170 --> 02:22:35,450
the size of the primary building, primary dwelling footprint. So we're not taking like every

1636
02:22:35,450 --> 02:22:43,090
square inch of each story, it's just that footprint because what we're using it is a lot

1637
02:22:43,090 --> 02:22:50,150
coverage as well. So no more than 75% of the main house on the footprint. So let's

1638
02:22:50,150 --> 02:22:55,790
say if the footprint of the main house was a thousand square feet, you couldn't go any

1639
02:22:55,790 --> 02:23:03,010
more than 750 square feet. That's 75% of that. But it also has to meet the standards

1640
02:23:03,010 --> 02:23:08,450
of building coverage for accessory structures. So if we were administering this, we would

1641
02:23:08,450 --> 02:23:12,510
calculate one and then we calculate the other and figure out which one's less.

1642
02:23:13,090 --> 02:23:18,830
So in this slide it shows in the accessory structure chapter because we're trying to

1643
02:23:18,830 --> 02:23:25,250
make it a measure with what we already allow now in terms of accessory structures which is

1644
02:23:25,250 --> 02:23:32,630
you're allowed up to two and one or both of them cannot exceed more than a set square

1645
02:23:32,630 --> 02:23:40,470
footage depending on your lot size. So if your lot was, for example, 11,000 square feet

1646
02:23:40,470 --> 02:23:49,330
based on this table, it could not be any more than 750 square feet if that was the only

1647
02:23:49,330 --> 02:23:57,130
accessory structure on the lot. Just like if it was a storage shed, we wouldn't allow more

1648
02:23:57,130 --> 02:24:06,630
more than that. So the lock coverage is commasurate and also it could not be any more than

1649
02:24:06,630 --> 02:24:13,790
75% of the primary building coverage. So we basically would use both of these whichever

1650
02:24:13,790 --> 02:24:17,270
is less and that is what they're maximum would be.

1651
02:24:19,600 --> 02:24:22,400
The next is location where it could

1652
02:24:22,400 --> 02:24:28,500
you put it in the front yard or just the rear yard. So the proposal proposes the detached

1653
02:24:28,500 --> 02:24:37,040
It would only be allowed on the side in the rear yard and behind the front plane of the house.

1654
02:24:37,700 --> 02:24:42,200
Basically, it wouldn't be allowed in what is defined as the front yard.

1655
02:24:42,660 --> 02:24:47,800
It has to be no further forward than that main house.

1656
02:24:48,800 --> 02:24:53,920
But if a lot was larger, if a lot was 40,000 square feet or larger,

1657
02:24:53,920 --> 02:24:59,940
the proposal would allow a detached ADU to be in front of that house.

1658
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:09,740
But it has to meet the front setback. We have different definitions for front setback and front yard, but that's the proposal.

1659
02:25:11,660 --> 02:25:27,240
Building height and setback. So the height and setback is really tied together. So in our table of standards, we included those, which are, if we would allow up to a 15 foot building height,

1660
02:25:27,240 --> 02:25:35,620
But it would have to be at least 10 feet from the side and the rear set back and that's basically a one story

1661
02:25:35,620 --> 02:25:45,220
And so these are just kind of some images of what a one story a little ADU would be like so that would be a maximum of 15 feet

1662
02:25:46,560 --> 02:25:48,980
Measure to the peak of the roof and

1663
02:25:48,980 --> 02:25:52,620
And it has to be 10 feet from the side and the rear.

1664
02:25:53,500 --> 02:25:57,100
But if it was taller than 10, 15 feet,

1665
02:25:57,980 --> 02:26:00,460
it could not be taller than the primary dwelling.

1666
02:26:01,660 --> 02:26:05,700
And it would also have to meet the setbacks

1667
02:26:05,700 --> 02:26:08,100
of the primary structure.

1668
02:26:08,860 --> 02:26:13,060
Basically, just like the main house has basic setbacks.

1669
02:26:13,180 --> 02:26:15,400
It would have to meet those setbacks in addition.

1670
02:26:15,400 --> 02:26:20,080
It could be no less than 10 feet from the side and the rear.

1671
02:26:20,720 --> 02:26:22,660
So if it was two stories as an example,

1672
02:26:23,260 --> 02:26:25,220
it was in 15 feet, you're not going to get two stories.

1673
02:26:25,380 --> 02:26:28,060
But if it was two stories, it would have to

1674
02:26:28,060 --> 02:26:30,240
meet the setbacks just like the main home.

1675
02:26:30,600 --> 02:26:33,640
And then it would be allowed on the side, for example,

1676
02:26:33,640 --> 02:26:35,380
you could not be less than 10 feet.

1677
02:26:35,560 --> 02:26:38,340
So that's what is proposed right now.

1678
02:26:38,920 --> 02:26:42,640
These are just some image examples of two stories structures.

1679
02:26:43,520 --> 02:26:53,180
Balcanese index would not be allowed unless they are, it meets the setbacks of the main dwelling.

1680
02:26:53,860 --> 02:26:57,920
So if it was just like if it was part of the main house, you could have a balcony.

1681
02:26:59,180 --> 02:27:01,300
You could have, you know, upper decks.

1682
02:27:02,580 --> 02:27:07,580
So basically if it's meeting those setbacks, just like the main house, well then you could.

1683
02:27:07,580 --> 02:27:13,620
But also, we have provisions where on this detached ADU, you couldn't encroach into that

1684
02:27:13,620 --> 02:27:14,020
setback.

1685
02:27:14,140 --> 02:27:17,700
So that balcony cannot go in there.

1686
02:27:18,220 --> 02:27:22,380
That's part of the, with the policies of the general plan, it does say mitigating impacts

1687
02:27:22,380 --> 02:27:22,880
to neighbors.

1688
02:27:23,120 --> 02:27:28,560
So these are just some of the standards that have been put in, trying to do mitigate for that.

1689
02:27:29,560 --> 02:27:32,740
We have allowed for basements.

1690
02:27:32,740 --> 02:27:42,140
So it could be full story underground basement or one-and-half stories, but they would be

1691
02:27:42,140 --> 02:27:43,620
allowed in this proposal.

1692
02:27:45,180 --> 02:27:51,240
And conversions, the state requires that we allow for a path to convert an existing access

1693
02:27:51,240 --> 02:28:02,920
structure to a ADU and so our proposal would be that it would be a legal structure, but

1694
02:28:02,920 --> 02:28:08,140
the habitable area has to meet the standards of the detached ADU. So this slide tries

1695
02:28:08,140 --> 02:28:12,920
to show where, well, there's a portion of this existing structure that's really close to

1696
02:28:12,920 --> 02:28:19,060
the property line, but that first 10 feet, you wouldn't be able to use that as the habitable

1697
02:28:19,060 --> 02:28:33,400
area of your ADU. You could turn it into depending on the size and location. You could turn it into maybe a storage area or garage, but it cannot be the habitable area.

1698
02:28:34,820 --> 02:28:43,220
And so if you're going to convert that, you may have to wall things off or make storage areas on the outer side that's in that setback.

1699
02:28:47,260 --> 02:28:55,200
Examples here are just some examples of illustrations showing size so you get a feel for

1700
02:28:55,200 --> 02:29:08,640
this illustration is showing two bedroom one bath. It's only 535 square feet and another 800 square feet with two full bedrooms in bathrooms

1701
02:29:10,940 --> 02:29:17,920
and a two story, this is 600 square feet, one bedroom, one bath,

1702
02:29:20,840 --> 02:29:22,280
1,000 square foot

1703
02:29:22,280 --> 02:29:25,820
in size would accommodate a three bedroom, two bath,

1704
02:29:28,540 --> 02:29:31,080
and then there's several slides here

1705
02:29:31,080 --> 02:29:38,000
that gives an analysis of, well, what if it was a smaller lot in an R16 zone, it's a 6,000

1706
02:29:38,000 --> 02:29:44,580
for a lot. If we use the same standards and calculations would they even be able to have an

1707
02:29:44,580 --> 02:29:51,200
ADU and what would that look like or how big would that be? And so Mike Wilcox had prepared

1708
02:29:51,200 --> 02:29:58,200
these in evaluating what size of an ADU that they could do. So if you're some examples

1709
02:29:58,200 --> 02:29:59,540
in the R16 Zone.

1710
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:22,980
Where you could accommodate like a 611 square foot ADU. And 265 foot square foot ADU. Another one where an ADU would absolutely not be practical in terms of the amount of area that they could use.

1711
02:30:22,980 --> 02:30:34,980
And in the R18 zone where you have lot sizes typically 8,000 square feet or a little more where you could have 80s anywhere from 516 square feet.

1712
02:30:36,020 --> 02:30:42,700
An example 394 and another is 405 square feet, I believe.

1713
02:30:44,260 --> 02:30:49,880
So this just shows that if it was allowed on smaller lot sizes, it is possible.

1714
02:30:49,880 --> 02:30:58,000
but they have to meet setbacks, the height, size, et cetera, of the standards.

1715
02:30:58,980 --> 02:31:06,240
The proposal doesn't propose that right now, but it does encourage in the future,

1716
02:31:06,380 --> 02:31:08,080
maybe looking at smaller lots of sizes.

1717
02:31:09,380 --> 02:31:15,260
And this is our 110 zone where they could accommodate some larger ADUs,

1718
02:31:15,260 --> 02:31:23,320
575 square feet, one is the 750 square feet, and then going up to R1-15 and R1-20 zones,

1719
02:31:23,540 --> 02:31:31,980
the 1,000 square foot ADU, 1500 square foot ADU, and then lastly R1-48A examples,

1720
02:31:34,280 --> 02:31:44,180
there's one that's 1,250 square foot or another one because of what they already have on their

1721
02:31:44,180 --> 02:31:44,920
structure.

1722
02:31:49,390 --> 02:31:55,530
Our one for here's some other examples, 1800 square foot. The largest one is

1723
02:31:55,530 --> 02:32:02,750
a 2000 square foot, 80 you. So the Plani Commission had their recommendation to support

1724
02:32:02,750 --> 02:32:07,730
the proposal but with some modifications. I'd like to run through those and that will conclude

1725
02:32:07,730 --> 02:32:08,530
the presentation.

1726
02:32:12,390 --> 02:32:18,410
In the minutes as well outlined in the motion that included all of the proposed

1727
02:32:18,410 --> 02:32:29,890
modifications was some findings or the rationale behind the reasoning behind that and so I

1728
02:32:29,890 --> 02:32:37,370
encourage you if you haven't already to look at the minutes where they're proposing a specific

1729
02:32:37,370 --> 02:32:44,070
modification to the text and why and so that's spelled out in the minutes in detail.

1730
02:32:45,190 --> 02:32:55,510
So, the number permitted is the planning commission had wanted to add that if it's within

1731
02:32:55,510 --> 02:33:04,290
the primary dwelling, you could have any number of living areas, but only two could be self-contained

1732
02:33:04,290 --> 02:33:10,730
habitable living units as opposed to one, they would allow two, but only if there are no detached

1733
02:33:10,730 --> 02:33:12,130
to 80 use on the property.

1734
02:33:14,470 --> 02:33:18,850
So that's one of the changes that they're hoping for.

1735
02:33:19,650 --> 02:33:24,150
On the entrance is right now, and this is existing text,

1736
02:33:25,390 --> 02:33:29,410
the entrance that it's only allowed on the front of the house.

1737
02:33:29,410 --> 02:33:32,270
I mean, the side in the rear of the house, not on the front,

1738
02:33:33,250 --> 02:33:38,050
but the recommendation is to modify that on corner lots,

1739
02:33:38,050 --> 02:33:45,450
to allow an entrance to the ADO if it faces the street that's opposite of the primary entrance.

1740
02:33:48,630 --> 02:34:00,570
A third one is in terms of design that in terms of a connection to the home, this would be where you're adding an ADO or extended living area to your home.

1741
02:34:00,570 --> 02:34:25,070
and you're doing an addition as opposed to requiring it to be a common wall where you have a minimum amount that has to be, you know, connected to the primary structure, the minimum width is currently specified in this text to be at least 20% of the perimeter of the addition.

1742
02:34:25,690 --> 02:34:29,490
So through building permit review, we take those measurements to make the calculation.

1743
02:34:29,490 --> 02:34:33,230
But it wouldn't be allowed through a bees freeze-way or a garage.

1744
02:34:33,870 --> 02:34:40,390
That's the way the text is now, but the planning commission has proposed an amendment where the addition

1745
02:34:40,390 --> 02:34:47,550
could be connected to the existing home by means of a common wall or freeze-way

1746
02:34:48,230 --> 02:34:53,130
that may be attached to a non-habitable space garage.

1747
02:34:53,810 --> 02:34:59,630
And these, these are some examples of, of a, a, a, a, a.

1748
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:03,740
For these ways where there is a connection,

1749
02:35:05,920 --> 02:35:14,140
but these are pretty large flights too. It's a pretty expansive addition that they've done.

1750
02:35:14,600 --> 02:35:25,160
So those are just some examples to show that. So lighting, this was just a typo to add the word B shall be dark sky compliant. That's already in the text.

1751
02:35:26,240 --> 02:35:32,940
Also, the planning commission is recommending that the minimum lot size for detached

1752
02:35:32,940 --> 02:35:38,860
shade use, instead of 11,000 square feet or larger, to bring that down to 10,000 square

1753
02:35:38,860 --> 02:35:40,480
feet or larger and lots.

1754
02:35:41,000 --> 02:35:48,760
We do have several areas that are one-tenth zone, so it's similar to that zone.

1755
02:35:49,160 --> 02:35:54,040
The planning commission also recommended that this be revisited in the future to consider

1756
02:35:54,040 --> 02:35:57,940
lower minimum lot sizes for detached data use.

1757
02:35:58,900 --> 02:36:04,700
And so the next modification is for the location,

1758
02:36:05,220 --> 02:36:09,960
right now, the location is just on the rear and the side

1759
02:36:09,960 --> 02:36:13,660
and behind the house, out of the front yard.

1760
02:36:14,320 --> 02:36:18,700
But the proposal is for properties that are larger,

1761
02:36:20,040 --> 02:36:23,860
as well as new subdivisions of five or more

1762
02:36:23,860 --> 02:36:26,980
lots to allow the ADU to be in front of that house,

1763
02:36:27,120 --> 02:36:28,920
but it has to meet the front setback.

1764
02:36:29,160 --> 02:36:30,940
So this can't be right up to the side market.

1765
02:36:31,360 --> 02:36:34,720
You know, meet the setback, but it could be in front of that house.

1766
02:36:35,380 --> 02:36:39,540
So the changes to add new subdivisions of five or more lots

1767
02:36:39,540 --> 02:36:44,240
where they're designing it from scratch to meet those standards.

1768
02:36:44,240 --> 02:36:52,480
Another one is for building height and setbacks from the side and we're property lines.

1769
02:36:53,600 --> 02:37:02,800
And so the existing text is where you have a detestate you that's more than 15 feet in height.

1770
02:37:03,980 --> 02:37:08,340
It can't be taller than the building height of the primary dwelling,

1771
02:37:09,880 --> 02:37:16,340
But the recommendation is to only apply that to properties that are 20,000 square feet

1772
02:37:16,340 --> 02:37:17,760
in size or less.

1773
02:37:18,260 --> 02:37:23,040
So anything over 20,000 square feet that it could be taller.

1774
02:37:23,560 --> 02:37:26,740
The detached data you could be taller than the primary dwelling.

1775
02:37:33,200 --> 02:37:37,820
Oh, and then there was a comment that came in during our planning commission public hearing

1776
02:37:37,820 --> 02:37:47,360
process, and they had an example of a one-story existing detached

1777
02:37:47,360 --> 02:37:50,900
accessory structure, and they were concerned that the way it was

1778
02:37:50,900 --> 02:37:55,000
written that they wouldn't be able to do, and convert that to an

1779
02:37:55,000 --> 02:38:00,560
ADU for their family, either rental or non rental, but they were

1780
02:38:00,560 --> 02:38:04,580
concerned about that, and so the Plain and Commission recommended some

1781
02:38:04,580 --> 02:38:10,800
clarification, and so the recommended language is to add, when you're doing a conversion,

1782
02:38:11,620 --> 02:38:18,140
add the language that if it's an existing legal accessor structure, that is one story,

1783
02:38:18,300 --> 02:38:23,740
there's no loft or upper area living, but it is taller than 15 feet, this example that we

1784
02:38:23,740 --> 02:38:29,580
had was only 17 feet, but it was taller than 15 feet. It could still be considered for an

1785
02:38:29,580 --> 02:38:36,740
you, or extended living area, if the converted habitable space meets the ten foot of five

1786
02:38:36,740 --> 02:38:37,500
in your step back.

1787
02:38:38,180 --> 02:38:43,700
So they recommend it just clarifying that to make sure that people have a path forward,

1788
02:38:44,080 --> 02:38:48,960
which is what the state requires us, that there is a path, there is a process for conversions.

1789
02:38:50,560 --> 02:38:56,200
Lastly, there's no specific code change on this one, but the planning commission wanted us

1790
02:38:56,200 --> 02:38:58,900
to consider in the future this section of the code

1791
02:38:58,900 --> 02:39:00,720
was not publicly noticed.

1792
02:39:01,420 --> 02:39:04,480
So we are unable to unless we go back

1793
02:39:04,480 --> 02:39:07,100
and start the process again and do the notice.

1794
02:39:08,300 --> 02:39:12,640
But they had wanted to look at the accessory structure

1795
02:39:12,640 --> 02:39:18,900
section to not, on larger lots of like 40,000 square feet

1796
02:39:18,900 --> 02:39:22,180
or 60,000 square feet or more, just larger lots

1797
02:39:22,180 --> 02:39:29,740
to not have when you have an 80-year to have that take up the square footage allowance that you're allowed.

1798
02:39:30,660 --> 02:39:36,940
So that's not something that's in our the proposal now or that we can amend now, but in the future,

1799
02:39:37,520 --> 02:39:42,220
is the directed estimate, we could go back and look at that.

1800
02:39:43,480 --> 02:39:45,100
I think that is enough.

1801
02:39:48,720 --> 02:39:49,880
Thank you, Melissa.

1802
02:39:51,640 --> 02:39:52,140
So, additional?

1803
02:39:52,840 --> 02:39:53,480
This Christian said.

1804
02:39:54,320 --> 02:39:55,380
Let's hope these make sense.

1805
02:39:55,560 --> 02:39:56,760
Now that I've scrolled them everywhere.

1806
02:39:57,320 --> 02:39:57,520
Okay.

1807
02:39:59,120 --> 02:39:59,680
Um...

1808
02:40:00,180 --> 02:40:05,180
Rear yard percentage in our code we say can only be 25 percent.

1809
02:40:06,640 --> 02:40:15,180
We're keeping that. Just confirm me. Okay. There are some alternative maximals as well.

1810
02:40:16,380 --> 02:40:19,960
And not. So it's, I don't know if we have that chart in here.

1811
02:40:20,080 --> 02:40:26,400
I thought it was the smaller of the two. It is the smaller of the two. So there's 25 percent of your yard.

1812
02:40:26,400 --> 02:40:34,400
25% or 750 square feet, whichever is less in most lots in Sandy, it does scale up as you

1813
02:40:34,400 --> 02:40:36,800
move up in lots size to 1,500.

1814
02:40:37,700 --> 02:40:37,940
Totally.

1815
02:40:40,060 --> 02:40:40,380
Conversion.

1816
02:40:40,960 --> 02:40:43,320
I'm hearing that's required of us.

1817
02:40:44,020 --> 02:40:47,180
There's a cap, some type of a process work.

1818
02:40:47,340 --> 02:40:53,760
I would prefer our path to be that they move their existing structure or cut that part off.

1819
02:40:53,760 --> 02:41:00,280
Because I don't think, like, it doesn't make any sense in my head to save it.

1820
02:41:00,320 --> 02:41:03,300
You can have the same spot.

1821
02:41:03,560 --> 02:41:09,800
You can keep your shed against the fence line, but you can't use the 10 feet of it.

1822
02:41:10,180 --> 02:41:12,280
Like, I just don't think that's realistic.

1823
02:41:13,200 --> 02:41:18,640
So the intent there is that it retains that's existing use in purpose as a shed or garage

1824
02:41:18,640 --> 02:41:19,380
or storage.

1825
02:41:20,040 --> 02:41:20,420
That's fine.

1826
02:41:20,420 --> 02:41:21,080
It's just that.

1827
02:41:21,100 --> 02:41:22,660
But then they're not converting it.

1828
02:41:22,660 --> 02:41:29,860
that portion could not be converted, it would have to be at least 10 feet away in order for

1829
02:41:29,860 --> 02:41:34,960
some of that space to be converted. So what that means is the entirety of that existing

1830
02:41:34,960 --> 02:41:39,680
accessory building could not be converted if it encroached within that 10 foot set back.

1831
02:41:41,080 --> 02:41:48,140
So I don't like that. Okay. Yeah, I don't want to, like if it's that close,

1832
02:41:48,140 --> 02:41:53,300
I don't want them to be able to put an ADU that close to the wall.

1833
02:41:54,080 --> 02:41:58,260
No, they could keep it there if they would just say this ten feet is storage.

1834
02:41:59,760 --> 02:42:02,460
And the rest of the building is for you to live in.

1835
02:42:02,600 --> 02:42:04,340
It just doesn't seem realistic to me.

1836
02:42:04,960 --> 02:42:07,900
So, just no, you know, I thought it doesn't mean much.

1837
02:42:08,660 --> 02:42:11,960
I don't like balconies or decks at all.

1838
02:42:11,960 --> 02:42:19,500
I don't think that if we're allowing people to be able to attach data using their yards and I'm living next to them.

1839
02:42:19,740 --> 02:42:23,020
It's the same, it's the animal situation from being a nuisance.

1840
02:42:23,260 --> 02:42:29,140
I don't want 15, someone 15 feet up or whatever the world is looking into my yard.

1841
02:42:30,040 --> 02:42:31,340
I don't like that at all.

1842
02:42:31,540 --> 02:42:33,360
So I prefer we get rid of those.

1843
02:42:35,360 --> 02:42:37,600
The parking reduction near transit.

1844
02:42:38,600 --> 02:42:39,860
I don't want to reduce the parking.

1845
02:42:39,860 --> 02:42:47,590
I don't think that if it's within half a mile of transit, the only area that affects is district one.

1846
02:42:48,470 --> 02:42:54,610
And there's not a lot of areas that qualify that are over 11,000 square feet.

1847
02:42:55,570 --> 02:42:59,670
But I still, we already have a problem with parking in those areas.

1848
02:42:59,830 --> 02:43:02,510
And so I do not want to reduce that.

1849
02:43:02,630 --> 02:43:04,270
I would rather keep it at two.

1850
02:43:06,770 --> 02:43:09,590
Okay, the 40,000 square feet.

1851
02:43:09,590 --> 02:43:15,950
It says if you have a lot, the 40,000 square feet, you can have the adieu in the front yard.

1852
02:43:16,470 --> 02:43:18,630
As long as it meets the front yard setbacks.

1853
02:43:18,850 --> 02:43:23,110
So you'd be driving along, you'd have a home there that's on a 40,000 square foot lot.

1854
02:43:23,270 --> 02:43:26,030
And then right next to it, you'd have a tiny home, right?

1855
02:43:26,870 --> 02:43:29,210
And it looked like there were two homes on the same lot.

1856
02:43:31,050 --> 02:43:31,830
Is that what we're seeing?

1857
02:43:35,260 --> 02:43:36,460
Why we did these?

1858
02:43:36,920 --> 02:43:37,860
Oh, not too far.

1859
02:43:38,280 --> 02:43:39,700
Oh, I see, because you're replacing them.

1860
02:43:39,700 --> 02:43:40,320
There we go.

1861
02:43:41,080 --> 02:43:45,500
So in this image, you can see these darker colored boxes.

1862
02:43:48,230 --> 02:43:53,410
So 1542, what it says is that within this dashed line

1863
02:43:53,410 --> 02:43:56,450
is where the building setbacks for the primary structure

1864
02:43:57,190 --> 02:43:58,610
are on that lot.

1865
02:43:58,850 --> 02:44:03,750
Meaning that home could be built up to that red line.

1866
02:44:05,010 --> 02:44:07,930
In this instance, that home is set way far back

1867
02:44:07,930 --> 02:44:09,410
from that property line.

1868
02:44:09,410 --> 02:44:23,570
So what this says is that you could have a detached area in that area but it would have to meet the primary setbacks of the primary structure meaning they could do an addition now and extend their home all the way forward.

1869
02:44:23,730 --> 02:44:25,580
So you're making your own house the flag lock basically.

1870
02:44:26,370 --> 02:44:26,910
I'm sorry.

1871
02:44:27,270 --> 02:44:28,730
You're making your own house the flag lock.

1872
02:44:29,090 --> 02:44:38,330
You're now your home is like we have a couple in his historic area and they're awful and I don't think they promote like your neighborhood at all.

1873
02:44:38,330 --> 02:44:43,590
And so I don't, I don't like that requirement. I don't want them to be able to be in front of the homes.

1874
02:44:44,850 --> 02:44:48,390
Yeah, and it only would apply for lots of 40,000 square feet or larger.

1875
02:44:48,890 --> 02:44:50,450
Totally understand, don't like it.

1876
02:44:52,630 --> 02:44:56,570
The lock coverage, you said something on a slide. Don't have to be with one.

1877
02:44:57,050 --> 02:44:59,950
That shed plus an EDU would...

1878
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:16,180
Equal, your total amount of like the 700, or even 6,750 square feet you could build. So if your shed was like 200 square feet, you can only have a 550 square foot, 80, total, right? Okay, just want to make sure you're in just on a smaller log. Yeah, it didn't be big.

1879
02:45:16,180 --> 02:45:19,260
It start eating into your total potential size. Okay.

1880
02:45:19,760 --> 02:45:25,200
Because you still can't exceed the total of 750 square feet or 25% of the rear yard.

1881
02:45:25,200 --> 02:45:33,860
Okay, and that's if if someone had two accessory structures, they're not even an ADU, but just two storage

1882
02:45:35,280 --> 02:45:37,040
Sheds the same

1883
02:45:37,040 --> 02:45:45,560
Standard supply no more than two they couldn't add a third so much square feet. Okay, I still would like to see penalties come forward at the same time

1884
02:45:45,920 --> 02:45:54,120
For people who don't comply. I do like the 11,000 square feet. That's quarter acre lots only in larger, right?

1885
02:45:56,400 --> 02:45:57,900
That's quarter acre, right?

1886
02:45:58,260 --> 02:45:58,600
Yeah, roughly.

1887
02:45:59,980 --> 02:46:02,760
As for the planning, I'm just giving you my rundown here.

1888
02:46:03,040 --> 02:46:05,700
As for my planning commission recommendations,

1889
02:46:07,540 --> 02:46:10,340
I don't like number one or two.

1890
02:46:11,700 --> 02:46:15,880
I don't like number three because I think that's just

1891
02:46:15,880 --> 02:46:18,180
a detached ADU.

1892
02:46:19,560 --> 02:46:19,740
Yeah.

1893
02:46:20,320 --> 02:46:23,080
Like the breezeway just makes it a detached ADU in my opinion.

1894
02:46:23,080 --> 02:46:30,490
so I don't like that number four I don't have any problems with number five I don't like

1895
02:46:32,980 --> 02:46:38,760
number eight I don't like number nine I don't like and number seven did you mean that you

1896
02:46:38,760 --> 02:46:45,360
wanted to like I know it's a future but like with an animal rights like it would make it so that

1897
02:46:46,220 --> 02:46:52,940
Like, because there are large relots, it doesn't scale or it's which way.

1898
02:46:53,500 --> 02:47:00,440
So they're looking to expand for lots that exceed 40,000 square feet right now.

1899
02:47:00,600 --> 02:47:04,660
The maximum by-right is 2,000 square feet of accessory building size.

1900
02:47:06,340 --> 02:47:12,160
What the Plan of Commission expressed was wanting to re-look at that to allow for additional

1901
02:47:12,160 --> 02:47:13,400
square footage by-right.

1902
02:47:13,400 --> 02:47:18,800
So through a conditional use permit, they can see could 25% increase beyond that 2,000 square feet.

1903
02:47:19,780 --> 02:47:27,760
But they feel like those are too tight or too restrictive for large lots, like 40,000 square feet.

1904
02:47:28,180 --> 02:47:32,040
There's no bracket for 60 or 80 or such.

1905
02:47:32,700 --> 02:47:38,260
They're on the same scale there, so if they wanted us to re-look at that,

1906
02:47:38,260 --> 02:47:42,140
especially considering these eighties and not wanting to

1907
02:47:42,140 --> 02:47:43,440
constrain them further.

1908
02:47:43,680 --> 02:47:44,380
Can't put it down.

1909
02:47:44,880 --> 02:47:45,640
Those are my problems.

1910
02:47:46,300 --> 02:47:47,560
I think I really appreciate

1911
02:47:47,560 --> 02:47:50,180
of customer appreciation, so could you please

1912
02:47:50,180 --> 02:47:53,000
a number five, did you say no on that one?

1913
02:47:55,340 --> 02:47:57,320
But I did drop it to 10,000, right?

1914
02:47:57,320 --> 02:47:58,280
I want to keep it at 11.

1915
02:47:58,620 --> 02:48:00,240
Okay, and number six.

1916
02:48:01,000 --> 02:48:01,880
No, no.

1917
02:48:02,260 --> 02:48:02,520
No.

1918
02:48:03,300 --> 02:48:04,420
I'm a lot of no, sorry.

1919
02:48:04,840 --> 02:48:05,880
But this is one person.

1920
02:48:05,940 --> 02:48:07,000
Yeah, it's just one person.

1921
02:48:07,000 --> 02:48:07,960
I'm not.

1922
02:48:07,980 --> 02:48:08,720
They're going to get said.

1923
02:48:08,720 --> 02:48:09,260
And it's important.

1924
02:48:09,600 --> 02:48:10,040
I'm assuming.

1925
02:48:11,100 --> 02:48:12,980
And nine was a no as well.

1926
02:48:13,440 --> 02:48:13,520
Okay.

1927
02:48:13,840 --> 02:48:14,480
Thank you.

1928
02:48:14,840 --> 02:48:15,840
Just taking notes.

1929
02:48:16,200 --> 02:48:17,000
Thank you.

1930
02:48:18,500 --> 02:48:18,700
Okay.

1931
02:48:19,900 --> 02:48:21,380
So I'd love to share.

1932
02:48:21,920 --> 02:48:22,280
Just thoughts.

1933
02:48:22,740 --> 02:48:24,780
I have a couple of questions.

1934
02:48:24,920 --> 02:48:26,900
Most of my questions you've already addressed.

1935
02:48:27,200 --> 02:48:29,400
So I'm going to skip over those.

1936
02:48:30,320 --> 02:48:32,000
Let me make sure I start with.

1937
02:48:33,160 --> 02:48:34,440
I'm not going to be announced that one.

1938
02:48:34,460 --> 02:48:36,700
I don't think it's a good use of our time.

1939
02:48:36,700 --> 02:48:37,940
I can do that one separately.

1940
02:48:39,020 --> 02:48:40,480
Let me make sure I'm not.

1941
02:48:41,200 --> 02:48:42,320
Yeah, I'm going to hold on.

1942
02:48:42,380 --> 02:48:43,300
That one can wait, too.

1943
02:48:44,060 --> 02:48:46,000
So I'm just going to kind of share

1944
02:48:47,320 --> 02:48:48,860
High level because I know what you're

1945
02:48:48,860 --> 02:48:51,520
Hope what you're hoping or seeking is just

1946
02:48:51,520 --> 02:48:54,560
Where are we in response to what you've presented

1947
02:48:54,560 --> 02:48:58,900
and what might you need to hear from us

1948
02:48:58,900 --> 02:49:01,360
and then what might you do with what you hear,

1949
02:49:01,800 --> 02:49:05,260
which could be very diverse from one to another.

1950
02:49:06,140 --> 02:49:14,360
So overall, as I reviewed all of these things and I'm going to kind of tailor my feedback to the recommendations towards the end of the planning commission.

1951
02:49:15,240 --> 02:49:21,040
Encouraged because I feel like that would be the most helpful to you as kind of relative to what they were already thinking.

1952
02:49:21,960 --> 02:49:28,500
My goal and I feel in to a large degree you're accomplishing the goal. My goal is to fold.

1953
02:49:29,600 --> 02:49:36,720
We need to be provided as much flexibility as we can within what we feel comfortable doing.

1954
02:49:37,300 --> 02:49:42,480
The whole reason we are considering these things is because we have a housing crisis,

1955
02:49:42,700 --> 02:49:49,620
and Sandy City is trying to do its part, and we have to be responsive to what state law is doing.

1956
02:49:49,620 --> 02:49:59,960
My understanding is if we don't do anything, then by October 1st, state law just kicks in and then we lose any of it.

1957
02:50:00,000 --> 02:50:03,280
Of our ability to shape this, correct?

1958
02:50:03,800 --> 02:50:07,280
More or less yes. We just have to adopt their minimum standards.

1959
02:50:09,180 --> 02:50:13,780
And so we'd like to get our standards put in place, as far as other placement,

1960
02:50:14,080 --> 02:50:20,700
design, setback, articulated prior to their code going into effect.

1961
02:50:21,280 --> 02:50:26,360
So all of the maze that we can do, we want to ensure that we have in place.

1962
02:50:26,360 --> 02:50:33,800
Correct. Correct. Correct. Okay. So, so for me flexibility for homeowners within what we

1963
02:50:33,800 --> 02:50:39,900
feel is appropriate is is the lens through which I am seeing all of the recommendations

1964
02:50:39,900 --> 02:50:48,900
from planning commission and and then thinking also about construction costs. As we are looking to

1965
02:50:48,900 --> 02:50:54,640
give homeowners flexibility within the parameters we design.

1966
02:50:55,800 --> 02:51:01,940
Are we also considering how we make these additional structures possible at the lowest

1967
02:51:01,940 --> 02:51:02,800
cost possible?

1968
02:51:02,940 --> 02:51:07,740
So I saw some recommendations that I felt like a line to both of those things that I think

1969
02:51:07,740 --> 02:51:08,720
are the priorities for all.

1970
02:51:09,140 --> 02:51:13,700
So I like number three, I'm just calling it the breezeway.

1971
02:51:13,700 --> 02:51:23,600
I feel like it has the opportunity to touch every single lot in Sandy, and because I'm after flexibility.

1972
02:51:24,240 --> 02:51:27,040
Yeah, this would apply to interior,

1973
02:51:29,460 --> 02:51:31,740
IAEDUs, interior accessory dwelling units.

1974
02:51:32,160 --> 02:51:33,980
So it does apply to all single-family homes.

1975
02:51:34,440 --> 02:51:36,120
Yeah, that's what I'm clarifying.

1976
02:51:36,120 --> 02:51:43,980
And so, again, if one of my criteria, if one of the things I'm looking for is flexibility

1977
02:51:45,180 --> 02:51:53,920
and helping homeowners see potential in staying in Sandy and their children, potentially

1978
02:51:53,920 --> 02:51:58,100
living in Sandy, all of the things that we've been discussing for several years now.

1979
02:51:58,760 --> 02:52:01,120
So that's one of the reasons I like that.

1980
02:52:02,760 --> 02:52:07,000
And I think that one also is a lower cost.

1981
02:52:07,600 --> 02:52:11,020
It helps them accomplish the goal as a lower cost,

1982
02:52:11,040 --> 02:52:12,760
as long as it's done within our parameters.

1983
02:52:13,420 --> 02:52:14,100
So I like, okay.

1984
02:52:14,840 --> 02:52:16,200
I like number five.

1985
02:52:16,280 --> 02:52:17,760
I like the 10,000 threshold.

1986
02:52:19,240 --> 02:52:22,060
I think that based on what I calculated,

1987
02:52:22,320 --> 02:52:26,200
that increases eligibility by about five percent.

1988
02:52:26,200 --> 02:52:26,620
Five percent.

1989
02:52:27,300 --> 02:52:28,780
That's what you said in report.

1990
02:52:29,160 --> 02:52:44,680
So, the one thing I would recommend is perhaps we identify a specific date by which we will revisit this and what is the data we will use as the criteria by which we determine, yes, this is working or no, it is not.

1991
02:52:44,680 --> 02:52:52,800
So, and I know that doesn't necessarily get written into the ordinance, but it is.

1992
02:52:52,940 --> 02:52:54,740
I think that would be helpful.

1993
02:52:55,060 --> 02:53:01,860
So, for example, we look at a permit volume, complaints received, build, cost, averages,

1994
02:53:02,100 --> 02:53:02,480
et cetera.

1995
02:53:02,960 --> 02:53:03,820
So, just a thought there.

1996
02:53:04,820 --> 02:53:11,720
I also feel like, with my criterion mind, I feel like number nine, the Planning Commission's

1997
02:53:11,720 --> 02:53:41,700
recommendation number nine is a good one, clarifying that a single story shed, garage workshop can convert. Again, habitable space until they understand that meets the setback. I think this is a cost savings for the homeowner while operating within what we feel is appropriate. Because it allows several pieces of the build to, I guess, be skipped because we already have a structure.

1998
02:53:41,700 --> 02:53:51,080
that we can work from. So I like those. So those are the ones I feel like and I think again

1999
02:53:51,080 --> 02:53:57,840
this is a first part. You're coming back so I won't be labor but I wanted to at least signal

2000
02:53:59,260 --> 02:54:06,100
what's important to me and I know I'm one of seven but I want I want to be thinking about

2001
02:54:06,760 --> 02:54:11,400
homeowners and what we can allow them to do with their property and how we can help them maximize

2002
02:54:11,700 --> 02:54:22,080
That property in a way that provides some flexibility and low cost should they decide this is something that could help meet their needs.

2003
02:54:22,760 --> 02:54:24,860
So, and I see Mr. Kizer's hand. Mr. Kizer?

2004
02:54:26,720 --> 02:54:30,020
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to echo a lot of those comments.

2005
02:54:30,480 --> 02:54:33,440
I really like where chair Houseman is going.

2006
02:54:33,880 --> 02:54:39,640
It seems to me reminiscent of outcomes based philosophies that she's talked about before.

2007
02:54:39,640 --> 02:54:51,600
And so I really need, I think we need to think about this in terms of what, what is the outcome that we want as a city, what is most likely to happen and where are we going to allow that.

2008
02:54:52,080 --> 02:54:59,960
So with that in mind, there's just two comments I wanted to make in addition, I would love to see an exception on lot sizes.

2009
02:55:00,000 --> 02:55:10,560
This is for parcels within station area. I think that outside of that, you're going to have these set up by the wealthy

2010
02:55:10,560 --> 02:55:18,260
e-side residents who are looking to down-sized to age and place. That's what's going to happen, because they're super expensive.

2011
02:55:19,200 --> 02:55:28,580
To me, affordability, type housing goals. I think it would be really great to have a station area exception built in.

2012
02:55:28,580 --> 02:55:45,540
The only other thing I wanted to address is parking, I've said before, I'm on the way progressive end of the parking scale, but I do not think that it should be based on square footage. Instead, it should be based on bedrooms.

2013
02:55:46,600 --> 02:55:53,200
parking demand is, you know, it's based on the number of people living in a place, not the size of the unit.

2014
02:55:53,540 --> 02:56:03,720
So for example, an 800 square foot, one bedroom, ADU, shouldn't necessitate an additional parking spot compared to a 600 square foot,

2015
02:56:04,400 --> 02:56:13,740
ADU, that's also one bedroom, and I just think that bedrooms are a better metric for potential occupancy and thus regulating parking demand.

2016
02:56:13,740 --> 02:56:15,180
Thank you.

2017
02:56:18,660 --> 02:56:19,140
Mr. Nichol?

2018
02:56:22,100 --> 02:56:22,440
Thank you.

2019
02:56:22,500 --> 02:56:23,000
A couple of questions.

2020
02:56:23,760 --> 02:56:25,340
I know what a conditional use permit is.

2021
02:56:25,400 --> 02:56:26,740
What is a special use permit?

2022
02:56:27,280 --> 02:56:27,960
What does that tell?

2023
02:56:29,440 --> 02:56:31,720
It's basically a permitted use,

2024
02:56:32,280 --> 02:56:37,200
but we are reviewing the criteria to make sure they have everything.

2025
02:56:37,420 --> 02:56:40,560
There might be conditions of approval,

2026
02:56:41,000 --> 02:56:46,260
but it's basically a permitted use administrative review by staff.

2027
02:56:46,260 --> 02:56:49,380
State turnaround time is pretty quick.

2028
02:56:49,600 --> 02:56:51,700
We don't need to go to the planning commission.

2029
02:56:52,620 --> 02:56:54,520
The criteria is not subjective.

2030
02:56:55,240 --> 02:56:55,360
Okay.

2031
02:56:55,520 --> 02:56:56,060
It is clear.

2032
02:56:56,160 --> 02:57:02,180
So, because it says, the state says, we cannot require conditional use, but we are,

2033
02:57:02,260 --> 02:57:02,900
that's right.

2034
02:57:02,960 --> 02:57:04,420
Getting special use permits.

2035
02:57:04,720 --> 02:57:10,380
And you do that now for accessory apartments or internal wages.

2036
02:57:10,840 --> 02:57:13,980
They're permitted use as long as all of the criteria are met.

2037
02:57:14,040 --> 02:57:14,320
Okay.

2038
02:57:16,120 --> 02:57:23,920
Can variances be given on an ADU or the other thing, not on the ELA?

2039
02:57:24,700 --> 02:57:29,020
Well, uses are probably not allowed as a variant.

2040
02:57:29,020 --> 02:57:30,340
Various, okay.

2041
02:57:31,060 --> 02:57:31,840
A land use.

2042
02:57:34,420 --> 02:57:40,900
There's features on the lot that strictly prohibit you from meeting a standard.

2043
02:57:42,020 --> 02:57:48,040
then there's potential, if you can meet all the criteria for variance, you can always apply

2044
02:57:48,040 --> 02:57:53,240
but the Board of Adjustment must go by the stretch of the criteria in the state of law.

2045
02:57:53,520 --> 02:57:58,440
Which is very difficult to achieve, it's a very high bar.

2046
02:57:59,760 --> 02:58:03,560
And we're removing guest house and the definition of guest house.

2047
02:58:04,100 --> 02:58:07,260
Being replaced by the Detached ADU definition.

2048
02:58:10,580 --> 02:58:14,560
I've got a lot of comments, I'll put some other, so those were just some things I wanted to get out of it.

2049
02:58:14,680 --> 02:58:14,840
Okay, sorry.

2050
02:58:15,820 --> 02:58:16,620
Other questions?

2051
02:58:16,940 --> 02:58:19,460
Go for it as somebody else for a minute.

2052
02:58:20,120 --> 02:58:21,080
Let me go to Ms. Stroud.

2053
02:58:22,180 --> 02:58:23,140
Okay, Ms. Stroud.

2054
02:58:25,260 --> 02:58:25,680
Thank you.

2055
02:58:26,340 --> 02:58:33,570
I am on the very opposite end of the spectrum of a lot of comments here.

2056
02:58:34,530 --> 02:58:39,930
I really think this has the potential to dramatically change our day.

2057
02:58:41,130 --> 02:58:44,930
I would much prefer to say, let's take the state minimums.

2058
02:58:46,530 --> 02:58:47,590
Let's fill it out.

2059
02:58:47,990 --> 02:58:49,050
Let's see where we're at.

2060
02:58:49,330 --> 02:58:51,170
You know, to start adjusting that.

2061
02:58:51,290 --> 02:58:58,810
I mean, to build a brand new external ADU at a cottage, whatever it is,

2062
02:58:59,110 --> 02:59:02,950
200 to 400 thousand dollars to do that.

2063
02:59:03,290 --> 02:59:04,230
Here in Santa Utah.

2064
02:59:04,670 --> 02:59:09,470
There is no zero part of me that says somebody is going to say,

2065
02:59:09,470 --> 02:59:20,130
This is going to make this home affordable for me. I'm going to build a 400. I'm going to buy this home, and I'm going to build a affordable housing unit in the back for $400,000, and I'm going to add that to my mortgage. There's no part of me that thinks that.

2066
02:59:21,150 --> 02:59:25,030
We have a problem like housing problem. I get that.

2067
02:59:26,010 --> 02:59:35,590
But that's, I mean, to start reducing and to make a lot of changes right off the bat to me is, is unwise.

2068
02:59:35,590 --> 02:59:39,850
I mean, that's the state did a lot of consideration on this.

2069
02:59:40,010 --> 02:59:46,650
They spent a lot of time and the state, we have seen the state do some pretty dramatic things

2070
02:59:46,650 --> 02:59:51,210
and things that we don't care for as a city and we've said the state stepping on our toes

2071
02:59:51,210 --> 02:59:52,490
or stepping on our toes.

2072
02:59:52,810 --> 02:59:58,610
They have been more progressive than the council has wanted to at certain times.

2073
02:59:58,610 --> 02:59:59,950
And I

2074
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:09,280
I think we look at this and we go, well, they were a little hesitant on some of this and said, this is what we think, let's see what this does.

2075
03:00:09,640 --> 03:00:18,320
Because we know if the state thinks, oh, you know what, we want to go down to 5,000 square foot lots and we want to allow this, they're going to mandate it, they're going to require us to do that.

2076
03:00:19,160 --> 03:00:27,000
And that's, and then we have to do that. But right now, let's take what they have done, and let's run with it for a couple of years.

2077
03:00:27,000 --> 03:00:33,920
Let's see what it does, you know, how much will it really impact our neighborhoods and maybe it doesn't?

2078
03:00:34,040 --> 03:00:39,960
Maybe some music says there is no way I'm spending $200 to $400,000 on, you know, an external ADU.

2079
03:00:40,360 --> 03:00:45,880
I'm just not going to do it, so it doesn't provide a significant impact to us.

2080
03:00:46,540 --> 03:00:52,060
But I mean, and I know I am way off on an island by myself, but I'm like, they know what?

2081
03:00:52,640 --> 03:00:54,280
Let's just go with what the state says.

2082
03:00:54,360 --> 03:00:56,040
Let's see what it does.

2083
03:00:56,320 --> 03:00:56,940
Let's watch.

2084
03:00:57,620 --> 03:00:58,200
Let's learn.

2085
03:00:58,560 --> 03:01:00,920
I like the idea of coming back and revisiting this.

2086
03:01:01,080 --> 03:01:04,400
Giving it a year or 18 months, whatever it takes.

2087
03:01:05,120 --> 03:01:08,040
Take a look at it and let's evaluate it at that point.

2088
03:01:08,540 --> 03:01:10,340
What has it done to these lots?

2089
03:01:10,560 --> 03:01:11,760
How many have we had?

2090
03:01:11,880 --> 03:01:14,000
Have we had people come in and say,

2091
03:01:14,260 --> 03:01:16,360
here's my, I have $300,000 dollars.

2092
03:01:16,400 --> 03:01:17,860
I want to go right in the middle there.

2093
03:01:18,200 --> 03:01:21,420
Yet I can't because I only have an 8,000 square foot home.

2094
03:01:22,060 --> 03:01:25,600
or a lot, you know, let's track that data.

2095
03:01:26,080 --> 03:01:28,900
Let's see how many people are wanting or desiring this.

2096
03:01:29,140 --> 03:01:33,160
And if we're not getting that, okay, then maybe we've landed

2097
03:01:33,160 --> 03:01:36,640
in the right area and maybe the state what they have put forward

2098
03:01:36,640 --> 03:01:41,000
and their research, their input, is sufficient.

2099
03:01:41,740 --> 03:01:44,860
So I know I'm on that far into it, but for me,

2100
03:01:44,980 --> 03:01:47,880
like, you know what, let's just take it, you can't roll it back.

2101
03:01:48,620 --> 03:01:57,640
You can't say, you know, what we're going to do to loosen all of these, these are different suggestions.

2102
03:01:58,380 --> 03:02:02,400
We're going to loosen it up and then, oh boy, what did we do?

2103
03:02:02,900 --> 03:02:08,620
We didn't realize this problem and this complication and how this is impacted this area.

2104
03:02:10,220 --> 03:02:12,700
How do we, how do we tighten it up? We can't do that.

2105
03:02:12,700 --> 03:02:16,460
So let's just start with small incremental steps.

2106
03:02:17,020 --> 03:02:20,600
This is a step, this is a big step.

2107
03:02:21,560 --> 03:02:24,000
So I'm more of that, here we go.

2108
03:02:24,940 --> 03:02:27,380
So there's my two cents on it,

2109
03:02:27,500 --> 03:02:29,200
which I know the penny is now out of,

2110
03:02:29,640 --> 03:02:30,840
so maybe it's not worth anything,

2111
03:02:31,940 --> 03:02:33,300
but let's say we go to state stop.

2112
03:02:35,780 --> 03:02:36,160
It's nickel.

2113
03:02:38,500 --> 03:02:41,840
I think I've pinned down what my problem is,

2114
03:02:41,840 --> 03:02:43,340
I think it is the ELA.

2115
03:02:43,340 --> 03:02:53,740
And I think they're different enough that they both need a section in code, because

2116
03:02:56,440 --> 03:03:06,940
so in ELA, you can add additional square footage, where as an ADU in an existing

2117
03:03:06,940 --> 03:03:10,460
structure has to be within the original structure.

2118
03:03:10,460 --> 03:03:14,500
It has to be contained within right we can do additions on the

2119
03:03:14,500 --> 03:03:23,940
80 we're on in the journal because it didn't say they can be an existing space it can be within the existing, but it can also be attached.

2120
03:03:24,980 --> 03:03:26,780
But can you make it like an addition?

2121
03:03:27,080 --> 03:03:27,800
Oh, okay.

2122
03:03:27,800 --> 03:03:28,140
Yeah.

2123
03:03:30,200 --> 03:03:35,940
And so ELA is it can be a poolhouse with a wet bar.

2124
03:03:35,940 --> 03:03:41,800
If it's external, yeah, it would be a habitable space external, if that was the detail.

2125
03:03:42,680 --> 03:03:46,180
It would be a pool house or a gym.

2126
03:03:46,820 --> 03:03:48,520
It could have a shower?

2127
03:03:49,100 --> 03:03:49,320
Yes.

2128
03:03:49,460 --> 03:03:51,180
That would be considered in the LA.

2129
03:03:53,340 --> 03:03:53,580
I think.

2130
03:03:54,560 --> 03:04:00,140
I mean, we get the building permits that oftentimes they are disguised as one thing.

2131
03:04:00,140 --> 03:04:08,640
Yeah, but they're end up being used as another or, but the main thing is that the structure is being used as a

2132
03:04:08,640 --> 03:04:15,250
Habitable space in a more intensive use and if we just regulate it as a normal

2133
03:04:16,640 --> 03:04:20,940
Stratford accessory structure, you can be very, very close to the public

2134
03:04:20,940 --> 03:04:27,370
But in ELA, that's a gym. You're going to have some me go in there three times a week, right in the back below

2135
03:04:28,790 --> 03:04:36,830
You know, relatively low, you have any L.A. That's a two bedroom, two baths. That's a higher intensity.

2136
03:04:37,850 --> 03:04:42,070
And it's the same, listed as the same in our code.

2137
03:04:42,790 --> 03:04:51,110
So it's the use that is critical for me and the amount of intensity of that use that is going to increase to the neighborhood.

2138
03:04:51,910 --> 03:04:59,270
It's not necessarily a club, a pool house, something like that, so the intensity very low.

2139
03:04:59,650 --> 03:04:59,950
So that's the-

2140
03:05:00,000 --> 03:05:05,000
That's the way I look at it in my mind as how big is this impact going to be on the neighbors.

2141
03:05:06,180 --> 03:05:11,500
So I just wanted to do that out there kind of when I had it in my mind, but that's the way I'm kind of looking at it right now.

2142
03:05:27,040 --> 03:05:31,540
So I guess with a broad brush here, because there's a lot of detail in here, right?

2143
03:05:33,420 --> 03:05:49,300
I am going to side with Councilmember Stroud on what I see is the wisdom of taking the conservative approach in terms of implementation and learning lessons along the way.

2144
03:05:51,820 --> 03:05:56,100
So I'd rather dial back to what the state has mandated.

2145
03:05:56,100 --> 03:06:00,000
And again, like I said, learn those lessons.

2146
03:06:02,260 --> 03:06:09,220
I doubt that floodgates of construction are going to open up overnight, but I think we do have a lot to learn.

2147
03:06:09,980 --> 03:06:17,260
And I'd like to take this education that we're about to embark on and make some good decisions for our community.

2148
03:06:17,980 --> 03:06:24,620
And maybe even hone in on those decisions about where we might have gone too far.

2149
03:06:25,540 --> 03:06:30,420
So, I think I too would start at 11,000 square feet.

2150
03:06:33,420 --> 03:06:34,060
I...

2151
03:06:37,860 --> 03:06:38,500
I'm parking.

2152
03:06:40,060 --> 03:06:49,540
So, parking, if you're within a half mile of a transit station on a 650 square foot DADU,

2153
03:06:49,600 --> 03:06:52,800
you wouldn't have to increase parking at all period.

2154
03:06:52,800 --> 03:07:07,280
I don't I don't like that right so I I'm with Miss Christian sin on this no one's going to build a garage or a cardboard or something for a one-bedroom

2155
03:07:07,280 --> 03:07:14,140
ADU so what you're going to wind up with is a spot on the driveway and that's not a bad thing

2156
03:07:15,460 --> 03:07:22,140
Again this one of those things I think we can watch for and learn and refine but I'd rather

2157
03:07:23,780 --> 03:07:29,340
I would be great if we could come up with a perfect parking calculation, but I'd rather

2158
03:07:30,380 --> 03:07:35,820
over park with an under park, starting out and then make decisions along the way.

2159
03:07:36,560 --> 03:07:43,180
And regarding, isn't that the six and one parking space for 6.52 for over, that came from

2160
03:07:43,180 --> 03:07:43,660
state code?

2161
03:07:43,720 --> 03:07:43,960
Right.

2162
03:07:43,960 --> 03:07:44,160
Right.

2163
03:07:44,160 --> 03:07:44,180
Right.

2164
03:07:44,180 --> 03:07:44,420
Right.

2165
03:07:44,420 --> 03:07:44,500
Right.

2166
03:07:45,220 --> 03:07:48,260
Yeah, so that came from state code.

2167
03:07:48,480 --> 03:07:52,800
So as to Mr. DeKyzer's statement that we ought to match it to bedrooms.

2168
03:07:53,440 --> 03:07:56,780
We have to match it to state code on this, correct?

2169
03:07:57,500 --> 03:08:04,900
You could tie a little bit to bedrooms, but what it says is that you can't regulate

2170
03:08:04,900 --> 03:08:11,260
or require more than one additional stall for DADU that's under 650.

2171
03:08:11,260 --> 03:08:17,960
And you can't require more than two for something that's over 650.

2172
03:08:18,120 --> 03:08:21,800
So that's the way I'd like our code to read.

2173
03:08:22,080 --> 03:08:24,880
And it's giving us the maximum we're allowed.

2174
03:08:25,020 --> 03:08:27,080
We don't have to require any parking.

2175
03:08:28,440 --> 03:08:32,400
But I don't want to do the reduction on proximity to a transit station.

2176
03:08:34,180 --> 03:08:35,680
Just a question for staff.

2177
03:08:35,760 --> 03:08:37,820
When we first looked at this back in April,

2178
03:08:37,820 --> 03:08:43,180
when you came to us with some concepts and just ran them by us.

2179
03:08:43,840 --> 03:08:48,880
We were talking about the maximum building coverage.

2180
03:08:49,000 --> 03:08:49,860
Was it coverage?

2181
03:08:50,120 --> 03:08:50,720
Versailles.

2182
03:08:51,660 --> 03:08:51,700
Yes.

2183
03:08:51,700 --> 03:08:52,240
Was it size?

2184
03:08:52,240 --> 03:08:52,760
It was.

2185
03:08:53,680 --> 03:08:56,340
So 50 to 75.

2186
03:08:56,980 --> 03:09:00,800
Now, I even watched the meeting all over again.

2187
03:09:01,140 --> 03:09:02,620
50 to 75%.

2188
03:09:02,620 --> 03:09:07,580
We didn't really directly answer the question, but it's coming back to us now at 75.

2189
03:09:08,900 --> 03:09:11,940
75% of the footprint of the main building.

2190
03:09:12,840 --> 03:09:13,340
Primary.

2191
03:09:13,680 --> 03:09:19,020
Well, actually, I did go through that as to previous,

2192
03:09:20,480 --> 03:09:24,140
because there was some different opinions, so it was kind of generally,

2193
03:09:24,960 --> 03:09:31,280
but I did notice that our proposal was consistent with everything we heard as a

2194
03:09:31,280 --> 03:09:34,600
kind of majority in general from the council originally.

2195
03:09:34,600 --> 03:09:44,860
The only thing different was if you want to just specify a maximum square footage number flat out, like, no more than 1,500 square feet.

2196
03:09:45,020 --> 03:09:47,980
No more than 1,000 square feet periode.

2197
03:09:49,340 --> 03:09:59,740
That's the one thing that it's more of a relative size relative to the size of the main home.

2198
03:10:00,000 --> 03:10:13,780
It's also relative to the lock coverage of the rear yard similar to the district. So once again, it's the either or equation that you have, you've included in here. Okay.

2199
03:10:14,080 --> 03:10:21,800
Yeah. So they are considered accessory structures and would count towards the total number of accessory buildings and the total coverage of the rear yard.

2200
03:10:21,800 --> 03:10:28,580
But this would just stay that in no case could be more than 75% of the main dwellings footprint.

2201
03:10:29,460 --> 03:10:36,840
And again, that's trying to get it to the point where we're not approving the structure that is both taller and bigger than the primary structure.

2202
03:10:37,400 --> 03:10:39,600
That they are by design,

2203
03:10:41,200 --> 03:10:42,400
Ancillary too.

2204
03:10:42,400 --> 03:10:43,740
It's important to.

2205
03:10:43,880 --> 03:10:45,760
Which is consistent with the general plan.

2206
03:10:46,520 --> 03:10:46,940
Okay.

2207
03:10:46,940 --> 03:10:51,200
Okay, I'm good with that then. Thank you for that. I think I had a little bit twisted.

2208
03:10:51,440 --> 03:10:56,060
We had talked about like instituting the maximum size or something like that, but we decided

2209
03:10:56,060 --> 03:11:01,140
as we were reviewing this that it would be better to regulate it based on the context of the

2210
03:11:01,140 --> 03:11:04,680
lot and the coverage of the total rear yard area.

2211
03:11:06,460 --> 03:11:09,520
So if you have been throwing out an arbitrary maximum.

2212
03:11:09,520 --> 03:11:19,540
But you could have a secondary structure that is 75% of the primary dwelling building coverage

2213
03:11:19,540 --> 03:11:30,460
and that is also 75% of the square footage of the primary dwelling. Could it wind up that way?

2214
03:11:32,350 --> 03:11:37,070
Let's say you had your primary home as 4,000 square feet.

2215
03:11:37,070 --> 03:11:42,830
Could you have a detached ADU that was 3,000 square feet under this rule?

2216
03:11:43,030 --> 03:11:44,350
Penning on the lot.

2217
03:11:44,930 --> 03:11:51,250
No, 2,000 square feet is the max here, lots that are over 4,000 square feet.

2218
03:11:51,770 --> 03:11:56,790
There's 25% of rear lot coverage or 2,000 square feet, whichever's less.

2219
03:11:57,170 --> 03:12:00,230
Okay, so that's what print of the ADU?

2220
03:12:00,790 --> 03:12:04,970
Yeah, the foot print, but then you'd also have,

2221
03:12:05,770 --> 03:12:14,930
Yeah, then you'd still be, if you had a 4,000 square foot home, you'd still have a, you'd be able to meet that 75% of the footprint of the main home.

2222
03:12:15,610 --> 03:12:17,690
That is if the footprint of the main home was.

2223
03:12:17,730 --> 03:12:19,730
2000 square feet is the footprint.

2224
03:12:20,330 --> 03:12:22,110
Not the total square footage.

2225
03:12:24,190 --> 03:12:28,090
So if you had a basement, you could double that.

2226
03:12:28,090 --> 03:12:34,190
And so, and if you had a second story on top of that, you could've met all of that to six thousand square feet.

2227
03:12:34,270 --> 03:12:41,970
If you met all of those criteria, but if you had a single story home under our proposed regulations,

2228
03:12:42,230 --> 03:12:43,690
it couldn't be taller than the primary.

2229
03:12:43,950 --> 03:12:45,390
And I want to stick with that.

2230
03:12:45,390 --> 03:12:48,790
I think I saw something from the planning commission that on a large lot.

2231
03:12:49,050 --> 03:12:52,610
For 20,000 square foot or larger, they didn't want to apply that rule.

2232
03:12:52,970 --> 03:12:56,250
Yeah, I would want to keep it.

2233
03:12:56,250 --> 03:13:03,050
It's either accessory and it's subservient or it's not right and so it is possible for the

2234
03:13:03,050 --> 03:13:08,550
Council if you want to have a set you know the total habitable area may not exceed you know

2235
03:13:08,850 --> 03:13:15,590
We can we can have multiple criteria that they need in that building permit. We just calculate those out to make sure they meet those

2236
03:13:16,390 --> 03:13:18,690
Other cities do have a maximum

2237
03:13:19,530 --> 03:13:22,730
amount right now as the proposal is it's

2238
03:13:23,670 --> 03:13:25,230
trying to have it scaled

2239
03:13:26,250 --> 03:13:32,250
to the size of a lot, making sure the footprint is no bigger than the main house footprint.

2240
03:13:32,810 --> 03:13:35,270
It's going to be no taller than the main house.

2241
03:13:37,810 --> 03:13:45,010
And it's, you know, so anyway, it's slowly up to the council as to in terms of that size.

2242
03:13:45,250 --> 03:13:48,570
But it's very good that you understand we're talking about the footprint.

2243
03:13:53,730 --> 03:14:06,910
It's good to understand that because that's not the maximum size of the structure, which could also have a basement and a second story.

2244
03:14:06,910 --> 03:14:08,070
And

2245
03:14:15,300 --> 03:14:22,280
that's why we did those test fits to kind of illustrate to you all to see how these rules would apply.

2246
03:14:24,560 --> 03:14:38,940
Yeah, so, you know, later at your leisure, if you look closely at those slides, it calculates out that my cut gone through what would be the feasible footprint.

2247
03:14:39,680 --> 03:14:45,380
And note that they can't go to a second story unless that box is fully within the foot

2248
03:14:45,380 --> 03:14:51,540
or the allowable setback area of the primary structure, as though it were attached.

2249
03:14:51,540 --> 03:14:59,040
into that issue, the subject of decks and balconies.

2250
03:15:00,050 --> 03:15:08,390
I don't know why we would restrict the DADU from something that the main, if it provided that the

2251
03:15:08,390 --> 03:15:14,730
setbacks are right. Restrict the DADU from something that would be granted to the main building.

2252
03:15:14,770 --> 03:15:18,790
That was the logic behind that.

2253
03:15:19,870 --> 03:15:31,770
So, the breezeway issue, just connecting the ADU or extended living area by a breezeway,

2254
03:15:32,170 --> 03:15:35,390
does that make it attached instead of detached?

2255
03:15:35,770 --> 03:15:36,070
Correct.

2256
03:15:36,730 --> 03:15:38,370
So, that could be a problem.

2257
03:15:39,090 --> 03:15:39,890
That could be a problem.

2258
03:15:40,150 --> 03:15:42,130
Yeah, you could go technically.

2259
03:15:42,370 --> 03:15:46,910
You could have a breezeway and then it could be twice the size of the main.

2260
03:15:46,910 --> 03:15:49,270
It doesn't be considered as part of the main.

2261
03:15:49,490 --> 03:16:01,510
It could be the workaround for wanting to give yourself more accessory dwellings, units in the backyard, right?

2262
03:16:04,000 --> 03:16:05,200
So that could be a problem.

2263
03:16:06,020 --> 03:16:13,020
It's still only limited to one detached ADU, but you can have one attached ADU.

2264
03:16:13,940 --> 03:16:20,560
If you're in a larger lot or an A designation, then it gives you, I think what we want

2265
03:16:20,560 --> 03:16:25,580
to do is prevent filling up the yard with structures,

2266
03:16:28,810 --> 03:16:28,810
right?

2267
03:16:28,970 --> 03:16:36,030
It would be really limited on the smaller lots, but on the larger lots, it might be a

2268
03:16:36,030 --> 03:16:37,810
workaround just to get more billed.

2269
03:16:38,130 --> 03:16:42,890
That's why we attach these examples, because these have been workaround that have been used

2270
03:16:42,890 --> 03:16:48,810
in the past, which is why the code was written the way it is as far as an internal

2271
03:16:48,810 --> 03:16:56,950
ADU, or an attached ADU, needing to have some measure of attachment or connection that

2272
03:17:01,170 --> 03:17:07,710
wasn't kind of a cheap way to try to get a much, much larger building.

2273
03:17:08,250 --> 03:17:13,350
So I'll start to get the main home at the more continuity, so it looks like all one structure.

2274
03:17:13,350 --> 03:17:22,810
It remains the character of a single family home, whereas these examples I think start making it look like it's not a single family home.

2275
03:17:22,890 --> 03:17:27,890
Those look like two single family homes on a lot, it's supposed to a single home.

2276
03:17:36,700 --> 03:17:40,600
But I think the reason we need to go away, I don't think we need to have it.

2277
03:17:40,600 --> 03:17:48,900
type of Bruce Lee requirement nowadays. We have so many other options for them to build and I think

2278
03:17:48,900 --> 03:17:55,820
they can build an addition or whatever. It's a concept of Bruce Lee's kind of dated right now.

2279
03:17:56,100 --> 03:18:05,460
As we look at this in particular. So I have a question. The parking on an interior and exterior is the same?

2280
03:18:05,460 --> 03:18:06,260
No.

2281
03:18:06,680 --> 03:18:09,640
Okay, I think it needs to, that's just what it is.

2282
03:18:10,060 --> 03:18:15,140
So state law restricts us from having additional parking for an internal aid deal.

2283
03:18:15,140 --> 03:18:23,740
And the book thing and being targeted with my, with my likes and dislikes, I think it needs to be the parking on an internal external, you're creating the same amount, right?

2284
03:18:24,980 --> 03:18:30,900
However, we are prohibited by the state from acquiring additional parking on an internal aid deal.

2285
03:18:30,900 --> 03:18:36,560
So we can require four Austrian parking, so for example, in Historic Sandi,

2286
03:18:38,580 --> 03:18:38,940
we have a lot

2287
03:18:38,940 --> 03:18:42,580
of homes that are not compliant with our parking requirements for a two-car

2288
03:18:42,580 --> 03:18:47,640
task garage and two-car Austrian parking. In order to have an ADU in those situations,

2289
03:18:47,800 --> 03:19:00,880
they have to bring it up to the standard two-car attached or detached and then two-car

2290
03:19:00,880 --> 03:19:06,510
any parcel to one ADU and one ELA period. There's no more than one, okay.

2291
03:19:11,430 --> 03:19:19,110
I don't know. I think that this is kind of on the extreme and I would like to talk about

2292
03:19:19,110 --> 03:19:27,890
letting ADUs in within the existing structure everywhere in the city. You're not, so you're not in

2293
03:19:27,890 --> 03:19:30,810
there's within the footprint, right?

2294
03:19:31,290 --> 03:19:33,290
I think that reaches a whole bunch.

2295
03:19:34,390 --> 03:19:36,510
Are you talking D-tastic, you use or...

2296
03:19:36,510 --> 03:19:37,170
I don't know.

2297
03:19:37,250 --> 03:19:37,750
Okay, okay, never.

2298
03:19:38,170 --> 03:19:38,630
Okay, yeah.

2299
03:19:38,870 --> 03:19:42,270
Well, I think I want to go down to R18, maybe not quickly.

2300
03:19:42,870 --> 03:19:48,710
But I think we're missing the mark when we put it only at 11,000 square feet.

2301
03:19:49,370 --> 03:19:54,810
It's not helping the people that this kind of was targeted around from the legislature.

2302
03:19:55,090 --> 03:19:57,790
I know I'm kind of off on that, but I'm not.

2303
03:19:57,790 --> 03:19:59,950
to explore that one day, but I think 10.

2304
03:20:00,000 --> 03:20:01,420
1,000 is reasonable.

2305
03:20:10,960 --> 03:20:12,340
So that's all for right now.

2306
03:20:13,120 --> 03:20:14,640
Okay. Good. Mr. Susan.

2307
03:20:15,880 --> 03:20:21,780
Thank you. Okay. So my list of questions and comments. My first question is, and I think I know the answer

2308
03:20:21,780 --> 03:20:27,960
what I just want to confirm. Do we require a traditional rental of an entire like a home?

2309
03:20:28,000 --> 03:20:33,820
Do we require a business license? The obtained. We don't even have a business license for a regular rental, right?

2310
03:20:33,820 --> 03:20:35,920
for the whole house.

2311
03:20:36,740 --> 03:20:37,880
Not for the whole house.

2312
03:20:38,620 --> 03:20:38,860
OK.

2313
03:20:40,000 --> 03:20:41,700
We require commercial business license

2314
03:20:41,700 --> 03:20:44,180
if they have four units or more.

2315
03:20:45,100 --> 03:20:45,160
OK.

2316
03:20:46,120 --> 03:20:47,040
So just, there's no surprises.

2317
03:20:47,060 --> 03:20:49,060
That's something that I will be working on this year.

2318
03:20:49,180 --> 03:20:50,180
And I kind of mentioned it.

2319
03:20:50,320 --> 03:20:54,120
But I do want to look at creating a rental business license

2320
03:20:54,120 --> 03:20:57,580
for all rental homes in the city.

2321
03:20:58,140 --> 03:21:00,820
Because I mean, we're covering it here with the,

2322
03:21:00,820 --> 03:21:13,860
you know, the short-term rental and even the accessory structure, which acts as a, like, regular, extended, more than 30-day rental, it doesn't make sense that there's disparity there.

2323
03:21:14,540 --> 03:21:29,040
Okay, so on the breezeway, if this is considered internal or excuse me, attached, I'm going to start using that terminology attached, how does that affect, like, the setbacks, I guess.

2324
03:21:29,040 --> 03:21:33,360
what setbacks would this attach structure be working in?

2325
03:21:33,500 --> 03:21:35,180
Because it's for all the tents and purposes

2326
03:21:35,180 --> 03:21:39,020
in my opinion, it's a detached structure that's, you know,

2327
03:21:39,680 --> 03:21:39,920
yeah.

2328
03:21:40,560 --> 03:21:43,820
So what kind of setbacks would the breezeway allow for?

2329
03:21:44,040 --> 03:21:46,200
Would it be different than the detail?

2330
03:21:46,780 --> 03:21:50,460
Oh, if you had an addition, but it was only attached

2331
03:21:50,460 --> 03:21:54,060
by the breezeway, then it would be considered part

2332
03:21:54,060 --> 03:21:55,520
of the main house.

2333
03:21:55,720 --> 03:21:58,260
If that was the way it was structured in the code,

2334
03:21:58,260 --> 03:22:01,200
and thus, what have to meet the main house, setbacks?

2335
03:22:01,740 --> 03:22:05,160
Are they, are they similar to the detached then or now?

2336
03:22:05,420 --> 03:22:06,220
Are they more restrictive?

2337
03:22:06,920 --> 03:22:09,660
Or are they are they, are they, are they, are they, are they, that's that's greater in that circumstance?

2338
03:22:10,380 --> 03:22:10,620
Or?

2339
03:22:11,200 --> 03:22:11,440
Okay.

2340
03:22:11,620 --> 03:22:12,880
So you have to be further away.

2341
03:22:13,060 --> 03:22:20,900
So like on this example, the dashed red line on the, on those houses shows where the primary

2342
03:22:20,900 --> 03:22:23,740
structure, setbacks are set.

2343
03:22:23,740 --> 03:22:30,740
for a detached, they can go as close as 10 feet to any habitable living area.

2344
03:22:32,600 --> 03:22:39,120
But in most cases, they're 20 to 30 feet away from a rear property line, and it could be

2345
03:22:39,120 --> 03:22:46,740
no closer than 10 feet, well, if it's attached, they could go as close as 8 to 12 or 15

2346
03:22:46,740 --> 03:22:48,200
depending on the zone that you're in.

2347
03:22:48,200 --> 03:23:18,180
Okay, and this is maybe more philosophical in this question slash comment, bedrooms, so these are accessory structures that have an intended purpose, you know, and they are supposed to be accessory to with a smaller footprint serving, you know, a smaller situation, but we don't limit the number of bedrooms, so I mean, there could be six bedrooms in one and they could all potentially be filled up by different people.

2348
03:23:18,180 --> 03:23:28,160
or multiple people, right, and so the intent behind this and the use of these, like, are we

2349
03:23:28,160 --> 03:23:36,820
intending to potentially have like a full-letter extended large family occupying these accessory

2350
03:23:36,820 --> 03:23:37,500
structures?

2351
03:23:38,620 --> 03:23:44,380
Is that, because that's, I don't know, like I said, it's kind of a philosophical question, but I haven't

2352
03:23:44,380 --> 03:23:51,620
any conversation or thought given to maybe limiting the number of bedrooms that could be allowed?

2353
03:23:54,100 --> 03:24:01,600
You could, it's not currently within the proposal, but that is something that could be instituted

2354
03:24:02,140 --> 03:24:09,080
to either limit the total square footage, meaning, basement, main level.

2355
03:24:09,080 --> 03:24:15,340
Yeah, it's some sort of some sort of maximum or some sort of maximum number of bedrooms.

2356
03:24:16,260 --> 03:24:22,540
The state allows us to regulate size, I'm not sure, I want to check with our attorney

2357
03:24:22,540 --> 03:24:27,460
if we could regulate the number of bedrooms. I like the idea, but I just want to check that

2358
03:24:27,460 --> 03:24:33,840
legality, but there are ways in which, you know, just in the total habitable square footage,

2359
03:24:33,840 --> 03:24:38,960
you know that could be limited to. So, but I'm sure we could accommodate

2360
03:24:40,100 --> 03:24:42,480
the intent of what you're acquiring about it.

2361
03:24:42,480 --> 03:24:46,780
And I don't, I'm not necessarily saying that bedrooms is the answer, but I do think that

2362
03:24:47,260 --> 03:24:54,300
we need to be intentional with with how we intend for these structures to be used.

2363
03:24:54,460 --> 03:24:59,940
I think that they're completely appropriate and they do serve a legitimate need, but I also think that

2364
03:25:00,640 --> 03:25:08,860
We need to be intentional with the, with, with, with, with, capping the potential impact to the surrounding

2365
03:25:08,860 --> 03:25:16,220
neighbors in either square footage or bedrooms, because, you know, council, go ahead.

2366
03:25:16,460 --> 03:25:21,780
Did you have something you wanted to say? Well, I was just going through the list of Valshaltnauts by the state.

2367
03:25:22,440 --> 03:25:27,300
And one of those is number or type of rooms that we can't regulate.

2368
03:25:27,300 --> 03:25:36,280
But we can institutes a maximum of course put it so if there is some some maximum size that you don't want to see these go beyond

2369
03:25:37,040 --> 03:25:44,900
There are numerous communities that I've instituted that for a range of, you know, very small to quite quite

2370
03:25:45,760 --> 03:25:46,440
Flexible

2371
03:25:46,440 --> 03:25:46,900
Okay

2372
03:25:48,020 --> 03:25:51,520
Because you know council member DeKaiser. I I generally

2373
03:25:51,520 --> 03:25:58,580
agree with his idea of parking in bedrooms being correlated. I understand that the state

2374
03:25:58,580 --> 03:26:03,790
has a very specific, you know, calculation for at least, you know, well, in some way for

2375
03:26:05,180 --> 03:26:13,340
the state's 150 square feet and under, but bedrooms do tend to lead to more vehicles,

2376
03:26:14,300 --> 03:26:20,660
right? And so I think that we need to be considerate of that and the types of impacts that

2377
03:26:21,540 --> 03:26:25,840
potential decisions have on our neighborhoods right in parking, and all of that, especially

2378
03:26:25,840 --> 03:26:32,640
if we can only require X amount of off-street parking, anyway. I mean, gosh, my neighborhood

2379
03:26:32,640 --> 03:26:38,560
is full of teenagers right now, and everywhere, you know, is kind of taken out by multiple

2380
03:26:38,560 --> 03:26:45,000
cars. And so you compound that with, you know, a four, five-bedroom accessory dwelling unit,

2381
03:26:46,360 --> 03:26:49,940
and you don't have to mandate, or you can't mandate, you know, specific parking, that could

2382
03:26:49,940 --> 03:26:56,860
problematic. So you can only mandate up to two. Yeah, additional. I really do think that we need to

2383
03:26:56,860 --> 03:27:03,160
capture square footage, not just coverage, because again, if you have a basement, that's a problem.

2384
03:27:03,420 --> 03:27:11,880
And again, it does not meet my thought process on this being accessory with a specific, you know,

2385
03:27:13,000 --> 03:27:21,080
Anyway, okay. So those, that's my thought there, occupancy restrictions on in your exhibit

2386
03:27:21,080 --> 03:27:27,660
A number eight. This is just like a really weird little definition. 80U shall be used and

2387
03:27:27,660 --> 03:27:34,700
rented by an additional single family. I don't know that that's like the right way to define

2388
03:27:34,700 --> 03:27:40,040
That is existing language, but there may be another way that we can...

2389
03:27:40,040 --> 03:27:40,960
OK, I can present.

2390
03:27:41,680 --> 03:27:43,020
And then you have the occupants.

2391
03:27:43,140 --> 03:27:44,880
It's either occupants, right?

2392
03:27:45,120 --> 03:27:48,620
We're not necessarily mandating that it'd be more than one.

2393
03:27:49,680 --> 03:27:50,940
Anyway, I would just read...

2394
03:27:50,940 --> 03:27:56,320
So the phrasing of the language in occupancy is what it's under.

2395
03:27:56,940 --> 03:27:58,940
Yeah, 8B is kind of weird.

2396
03:27:59,840 --> 03:28:03,700
OK, so then I see another potential problem in occupants...

2397
03:28:03,700 --> 03:28:09,720
or not, excuse me, duration of available, excuse me, duration of approval and transfer ability.

2398
03:28:11,420 --> 03:28:17,160
So the accessory dwelling unit, the special use permit, does not transfer if the house is sold.

2399
03:28:17,940 --> 03:28:19,600
I could see that being problematic.

2400
03:28:21,060 --> 03:28:28,260
When you sell a house, if you have a lease in place and you're two separate households, how do you move?

2401
03:28:28,260 --> 03:28:36,560
I mean, like Lisa's have to be honored, generally, for legal reasons, right?

2402
03:28:36,720 --> 03:28:41,920
So you have a lease in place with somebody renting your accessory dwelling, but you have to

2403
03:28:41,920 --> 03:28:44,900
move for whatever reason, your separate household with separate needs.

2404
03:28:45,560 --> 03:28:50,660
And if that doesn't transfer, then they're living in a place that you can't necessarily kick

2405
03:28:50,660 --> 03:28:53,700
them out of without taking legal liability because you've broken a lease agreement.

2406
03:28:54,280 --> 03:29:02,240
So, I think that if you are selling and you had it, I don't understand why who buys the place

2407
03:29:02,240 --> 03:29:05,540
like matters, I think it should transfer.

2408
03:29:06,020 --> 03:29:06,220
Oh, no.

2409
03:29:06,300 --> 03:29:06,440
Oh, no.

2410
03:29:06,440 --> 03:29:06,660
Oh, no.

2411
03:29:06,660 --> 03:29:06,920
Oh, no.

2412
03:29:06,920 --> 03:29:06,940
Oh, no.

2413
03:29:06,940 --> 03:29:07,020
Oh, no.

2414
03:29:07,020 --> 03:29:07,140
Oh, no.

2415
03:29:07,140 --> 03:29:07,480
Oh, no.

2416
03:29:07,480 --> 03:29:07,660
Oh, no.

2417
03:29:07,660 --> 03:29:07,840
Oh, no.

2418
03:29:07,840 --> 03:29:07,840
Oh,

2419
03:29:11,360 --> 03:29:11,360
no.

2420
03:29:11,360 --> 03:29:12,540
Oh, no.

2421
03:29:12,540 --> 03:29:14,200
Oh, no.

2422
03:29:14,640 --> 03:29:15,140
Oh,

2423
03:29:25,860 --> 03:29:26,340
no.

2424
03:29:26,340 --> 03:29:31,980
So transferable provided that the new owner is owner occupied.

2425
03:29:32,320 --> 03:29:36,640
So the new owner would have to get their own permit is the way it's currently done.

2426
03:29:37,020 --> 03:29:40,620
And that's what we're doing for internal ADUs right now.

2427
03:29:40,920 --> 03:29:44,960
Our existing accessory permit permits are set up this exact same way.

2428
03:29:45,840 --> 03:29:48,540
We have not run into this as a issue.

2429
03:29:49,960 --> 03:29:50,040
Okay.

2430
03:29:50,160 --> 03:29:51,540
Since we started sharing the permits.

2431
03:29:52,320 --> 03:29:56,060
Okay, so there shouldn't be any issue because it's been permitted.

2432
03:29:56,060 --> 03:29:59,960
and it's really about the occupancy, the other occupancy, and then the...

2433
03:30:02,640 --> 03:30:14,140
And I think the sellers are setting up their sales agreements and their lease agreements to not create those issues or conflicts.

2434
03:30:17,300 --> 03:30:25,900
Well, at least we haven't been a prize of any issues of this coming up or sellers coming to us or buyers coming to us with issues.

2435
03:30:25,900 --> 03:30:32,140
Well, when I have a bunch of owner occupants doing rentals that aren't really familiar with all of the laws and regulations and rules,

2436
03:30:32,440 --> 03:30:36,520
you know, you're bound to have uneducated people out there doing things that they should or shouldn't do.

2437
03:30:36,520 --> 03:30:41,960
No, you might have that issue with people that are selling their house in Sandy that don't have a legal accessory department

2438
03:30:41,960 --> 03:30:47,160
because they are a prize of those regulations when they come in for that permit.

2439
03:30:48,320 --> 03:30:53,480
So they know exactly what they're getting permission for and what they're not getting permission for.

2440
03:30:53,480 --> 03:31:18,060
So long as, you know, when a house is sold and the future buyer is intending to and will use it as a primary residence that they are not going to have an issue, you know, taking on that lease and the tenant that's in the place, you know, when they buy it. So you're saying that that's not going to be a problem. So long as they're owner occupied. Correct. And there's ways for that new owner to get a permit.

2441
03:31:19,500 --> 03:31:21,060
How long does the process take?

2442
03:31:21,220 --> 03:31:21,640
No long.

2443
03:31:24,040 --> 03:31:24,880
It's OK.

2444
03:31:26,580 --> 03:31:31,120
And then, let's see, what was my note here?

2445
03:31:31,620 --> 03:31:32,040
Conversion.

2446
03:31:33,320 --> 03:31:34,100
I really do.

2447
03:31:34,100 --> 03:31:37,600
I think the ELA is a problem in our language.

2448
03:31:37,680 --> 03:31:38,680
I know that it's old.

2449
03:31:38,740 --> 03:31:40,640
And I know that it's another, maybe, in other places.

2450
03:31:40,960 --> 03:31:41,940
And it needs to be cleaned up.

2451
03:31:42,100 --> 03:31:46,720
That would be a recommendation that I have for the work group for the code.

2452
03:31:46,720 --> 03:31:56,040
ELA is a, you know, I think of it as English language arts, you know, that's what my sense is, my ELA class.

2453
03:31:56,840 --> 03:32:01,020
Anyway, but I didn't know what it meant for a moment, it kind of stunned my brain.

2454
03:32:01,680 --> 03:32:08,720
But it's an older term, the terminology has changed with the prevalence and use of these accessory dwelling units or structures.

2455
03:32:08,720 --> 03:32:17,840
And so I can, if it's meant to be habitated, that's a word, right?

2456
03:32:18,380 --> 03:32:21,480
Okay, if it's, okay.

2457
03:32:21,940 --> 03:32:26,280
If it's meant to be a habitable inhabited in heaven, there you go.

2458
03:32:27,880 --> 03:32:31,380
Separate from the rest of it, then it's an accessory dwelling unit.

2459
03:32:31,640 --> 03:32:34,480
And then you've got the rental aspect.

2460
03:32:34,480 --> 03:32:41,140
I still think that using ADU for a purpose is the wrong terminology.

2461
03:32:42,280 --> 03:32:45,600
So I think ALA is confusing, but with that, conversion.

2462
03:32:47,260 --> 03:32:55,480
So existing legal accessory structures constructed prior to blah, blah, blah, maybe converted to a detached ADU or ALA.

2463
03:32:56,420 --> 03:32:59,080
Right? So ALA is missing from that.

2464
03:32:59,080 --> 03:33:14,580
I just want to make sure that we are being consistent in the permits and building of these structures because, again, it's all about the use.

2465
03:33:14,940 --> 03:33:22,180
I'm building this, but maybe one day I change the use and they should conform to whatever we're doing.

2466
03:33:22,180 --> 03:33:28,780
Otherwise, you have people that are doing it under an ELA that aren't using it that way and

2467
03:33:28,780 --> 03:33:30,460
then it converts to nobody knows, right?

2468
03:33:30,460 --> 03:33:33,280
And then we have a bunch of non-conforming.

2469
03:33:34,480 --> 03:33:36,480
That was a good catch, thank you.

2470
03:33:37,320 --> 03:33:43,140
And then one of the other things that came up when we first started talking about this, I don't

2471
03:33:43,140 --> 03:33:47,220
know how I feel about it, but I'm going to bring it up because we talked about it.

2472
03:33:47,220 --> 03:33:53,220
like limiting windows in areas that a join or a but.

2473
03:33:54,540 --> 03:33:58,140
I know what kind of says that they'll be they'll maintain the appearance of the primary

2474
03:33:58,140 --> 03:34:05,600
dwelling, you know, yada, but what was we initially talked about maybe like not having windows

2475
03:34:05,600 --> 03:34:08,960
like look into somebody else's backyard or the bedroom's or stuff.

2476
03:34:09,260 --> 03:34:16,260
The way the code is right now, but it's up to any amendments that you think are appropriate.

2477
03:34:17,720 --> 03:34:23,580
is that the setbacks, as they are, would address that with the 10, if it's just

2478
03:34:23,580 --> 03:34:28,660
just one story, it's 15 feet tall, that it would have a 10 foot setback minimum.

2479
03:34:30,080 --> 03:34:34,960
And then any taller than that, yeah, you can have windows, but you have to meet the

2480
03:34:34,960 --> 03:34:39,060
setbacks of the main, just like the main house would have to meet setbacks.

2481
03:34:39,060 --> 03:34:57,400
So that was the intent when we can regulate or windows through setbacks, basically with a certain setback, then they're allowed to do it.

2482
03:34:57,400 --> 03:34:59,940
is less fat.

2483
03:35:00,000 --> 03:35:06,600
And the original footprint of the House set back, like an attached portion of the House.

2484
03:35:07,020 --> 03:35:13,060
And so I don't know that I feel like it's completely taken care of because the home could have,

2485
03:35:13,160 --> 03:35:19,040
because we're reducing the setbacks in the detached situation. Is that accurate? Yes.

2486
03:35:19,040 --> 03:35:20,780
By how much do you know, I guess it depends.

2487
03:35:20,900 --> 03:35:29,560
Depends on the lot in the zoning, but anywhere from 20 to 30 feet is your rear setback for the primary structure.

2488
03:35:29,560 --> 03:35:35,480
And then on the side, it can range from 8 to 15 feet on the side as a minimum.

2489
03:35:36,120 --> 03:35:39,100
For a detachity, what we're saying is 10 and 10.

2490
03:35:39,980 --> 03:35:40,220
Can I ask?

2491
03:35:40,220 --> 03:35:41,860
Can I ask a single story?

2492
03:35:42,000 --> 03:35:44,680
Can I ask a silly question and anybody can answer?

2493
03:35:45,840 --> 03:35:48,760
I have a really difficult time determining distance.

2494
03:35:49,160 --> 03:35:53,040
So, from the front of the dius, right here, what's the approximately 10 feet?

2495
03:36:03,680 --> 03:36:07,700
Okay, so this is like, again, where I wrestle with, like I understand the point of it, and

2496
03:36:07,700 --> 03:36:12,600
I understand that the building still has to conform to fire code and there has to be

2497
03:36:12,600 --> 03:36:20,480
egress from certain areas and you do that through Windows, but I do, again, my initial

2498
03:36:20,480 --> 03:36:29,620
concerns were maintaining the privacy of the surrounding neighbors as much as possible, and

2499
03:36:29,620 --> 03:36:37,060
we initially talked about maybe doing that through requiring or restricting Windows in certain

2500
03:36:37,060 --> 03:36:39,720
areas, and so, yes.

2501
03:36:40,520 --> 03:36:42,740
We did, we did look at that for correct it.

2502
03:36:42,740 --> 03:36:46,580
But as we got further guidance on the state mandates,

2503
03:36:47,600 --> 03:36:51,360
one of the now-shalt knots is now-shalt not dictate

2504
03:36:51,360 --> 03:36:53,980
location, design, placement, or architectural styling

2505
03:36:53,980 --> 03:36:57,360
of a window or door for a detached ADU.

2506
03:36:57,440 --> 03:37:01,080
Well, maybe size, I don't know, height.

2507
03:37:01,500 --> 03:37:03,040
So again, design, placement.

2508
03:37:03,520 --> 03:37:06,540
So what, what we can do, yeah, design and placement.

2509
03:37:06,540 --> 03:37:11,660
How can we dictate that it matches the windows of the main home is not designed?

2510
03:37:12,440 --> 03:37:14,460
We're talking attached adios.

2511
03:37:15,040 --> 03:37:18,700
I'm talking, this is talking about detached adios.

2512
03:37:19,480 --> 03:37:23,460
So there's a different set of regulations that we can dictate.

2513
03:37:24,320 --> 03:37:28,080
So for an attached adio internal, if they're doing it in addition,

2514
03:37:28,520 --> 03:37:32,080
it still has to maintain character of the existing single family dwelling.

2515
03:37:32,500 --> 03:37:34,580
For a detached, it does not.

2516
03:37:35,380 --> 03:37:41,320
Okay, let me ask this, and again, let's see, I suck at distances and like how big

2517
03:37:41,320 --> 03:37:49,840
is 15 feet and is it possible to inhabit an attic space in that situation or a loft

2518
03:37:49,840 --> 03:37:56,860
like if you're going to the peak, so, now, under this provision, it's limited to a single story.

2519
03:37:58,060 --> 03:38:05,700
I think there's a possibility of clarifying, just like in the conversion saying, you know,

2520
03:38:05,960 --> 03:38:12,500
one story, no upper living, no loft space that, you know, 15 feet with the assumption

2521
03:38:12,500 --> 03:38:14,560
that you're not using that upper level.

2522
03:38:14,820 --> 03:38:16,060
Yeah, I mean, like it makes sense.

2523
03:38:16,060 --> 03:38:20,500
It makes sense for, you know, design or vaulted ceilings or whatnot, and that is space, but

2524
03:38:20,500 --> 03:38:25,440
I just, again, if we're trying to think through this and be intentional, then I don't know

2525
03:38:25,440 --> 03:38:28,200
that we intend for people to inhabit

2526
03:38:28,200 --> 03:38:30,440
the upper areas of the home.

2527
03:38:31,020 --> 03:38:33,920
Anyway, okay, so those are my thoughts.

2528
03:38:34,120 --> 03:38:36,100
I know that it's late, and I'm sorry.

2529
03:38:37,120 --> 03:38:38,000
I'm trying to be quick.

2530
03:38:38,740 --> 03:38:39,520
The planning commission.

2531
03:38:41,580 --> 03:38:43,080
I'm fine with number one.

2532
03:38:45,660 --> 03:38:47,440
I'm fine with number two.

2533
03:38:51,970 --> 03:38:53,730
I'm not sure about the breezeway.

2534
03:38:57,150 --> 03:38:57,190
Maybe.

2535
03:38:59,270 --> 03:39:00,190
Lighting fine.

2536
03:39:01,670 --> 03:39:04,550
I'm fine, going to 10,000 square feet even

2537
03:39:08,940 --> 03:39:13,040
seems to make sense because you're not retrofitting.

2538
03:39:28,140 --> 03:39:30,940
I'm not sure about you there.

2539
03:39:31,380 --> 03:39:32,920
I think I get it.

2540
03:39:33,140 --> 03:39:40,800
So if there is a garage and they can't inhabit space, maybe it's a two-story garage.

2541
03:39:40,800 --> 03:39:45,140
I don't know, is, what's our building height? 35 feet or something like that?

2542
03:39:45,640 --> 03:39:50,900
Typical is 15 to 20 feet per person and accessory building, but they could get a conditionally

2543
03:39:50,900 --> 03:39:51,300
use permits.

2544
03:39:51,300 --> 03:39:52,320
They'll be on that.

2545
03:39:52,500 --> 03:39:56,700
Okay, so I'm thinking of a specific situation, and it's pretty gosh darn tall, and they

2546
03:39:56,700 --> 03:39:59,960
have a loft in there that they use for storage and whatnot, you know, that's-

2547
03:40:00,000 --> 03:40:15,620
That's different because, like Council Member Nichol said, the frequency of the occupancy is considerably less, given that they're using it as storage space, you know, as an extended for garage, but if it were a retrofit into a garage, that's going to be in habit.

2548
03:40:17,780 --> 03:40:30,120
Anyway, habitable and habitated, whatever the word is, then I think that we need to, I get a little bit worried about retrofitting some of those structures.

2549
03:40:31,720 --> 03:40:38,640
Anyway, so I'm not sure about nine, and nine would not allow that scenario that you described.

2550
03:40:39,400 --> 03:40:39,400
Okay,

2551
03:40:43,280 --> 03:40:59,860
so, so, but okay, so say they're two feet from, whatever, they're two feet from the property line, and so they have to have a dead space of eight feet from the back of the building to where the, the habitable space is, but then you can't put windows necessarily.

2552
03:40:59,860 --> 03:41:05,060
I mean, I guess you can, but if you're kind of covered dark area, it just seems weird.

2553
03:41:05,120 --> 03:41:09,180
I'm not sure that I agree with 9 from a practical standpoint.

2554
03:41:12,400 --> 03:41:14,800
Okay, I think that's, I think I've covered it right.

2555
03:41:16,500 --> 03:41:17,020
Those were, okay.

2556
03:41:17,340 --> 03:41:17,840
Thank you.

2557
03:41:17,960 --> 03:41:19,280
Those are my questions in the comments.

2558
03:41:20,080 --> 03:41:20,780
Is Christianson?

2559
03:41:20,820 --> 03:41:21,580
Really quick.

2560
03:41:21,800 --> 03:41:25,140
I love your suggestion about limiting square footage.

2561
03:41:25,140 --> 03:41:32,600
I think that actually solves, at least my most of my concern, I don't know, if other people,

2562
03:41:32,940 --> 03:41:35,580
it kind of feels like other people in the counselor are filling that way as well.

2563
03:41:36,460 --> 03:41:41,320
The average size of an apartment is between like 6,200 and 1200 square feet.

2564
03:41:41,740 --> 03:41:44,900
So why would we allow an ADU that's like 4,000 square feet?

2565
03:41:45,400 --> 03:41:47,540
Like, that's way bigger than my house.

2566
03:41:47,540 --> 03:41:57,400
So, I think that if we want to, if we could consider that, that would be really helpful and solve a lot of the issues.

2567
03:41:57,620 --> 03:42:01,260
I like that. Does that include above grade and below grade, like basement?

2568
03:42:02,220 --> 03:42:04,940
Okay, that would have total square finished square photos.

2569
03:42:05,240 --> 03:42:06,060
Yeah, yeah.

2570
03:42:09,210 --> 03:42:09,370
Yeah.

2571
03:42:10,430 --> 03:42:14,030
Okay, I found it on the rest of my comments.

2572
03:42:14,270 --> 03:42:14,910
Is that okay, Marcie?

2573
03:42:15,790 --> 03:42:24,000
I'm looking at the red light right now and section,

2574
03:42:30,820 --> 03:42:34,780
transport eat or feed title owner.

2575
03:42:35,760 --> 03:42:37,780
I don't know if those are the correct terms.

2576
03:42:39,020 --> 03:42:40,500
Would it be trust eat?

2577
03:42:47,080 --> 03:42:49,560
At least, or not, I don't think it's feed title.

2578
03:42:49,980 --> 03:42:52,460
Is it free to say that?

2579
03:42:52,980 --> 03:42:56,720
It says the ownership type is free title owner.

2580
03:42:57,820 --> 03:43:04,520
Yeah, it wouldn't be fee-simple, and then I'm just, those are two single questions, I don't know if you guys know that.

2581
03:43:04,640 --> 03:43:05,400
It's fee-tidal.

2582
03:43:05,580 --> 03:43:05,920
Really?

2583
03:43:06,560 --> 03:43:06,580
Yeah.

2584
03:43:06,720 --> 03:43:08,800
I mean, a dictionary, it wasn't there.

2585
03:43:10,380 --> 03:43:10,520
Okay.

2586
03:43:11,080 --> 03:43:11,500
No worries.

2587
03:43:13,640 --> 03:43:27,000
And on the next section B, there's no date in the utility statement, like the others all have dates,

2588
03:43:27,000 --> 03:43:30,680
would you put dated within the calendar year on that one?

2589
03:43:32,480 --> 03:43:33,980
OK, good.

2590
03:43:34,360 --> 03:43:37,390
Let's date it with it.

2591
03:43:38,730 --> 03:43:41,150
And the utility hookups,

2592
03:43:43,970 --> 03:43:45,410
so you can't have,

2593
03:43:45,410 --> 03:43:46,930
you're saying you can't have secondary,

2594
03:43:47,390 --> 03:43:51,410
or the sporting unit can't have its own electricity, right?

2595
03:43:51,930 --> 03:43:53,430
So yeah, separate meters.

2596
03:43:53,530 --> 03:43:54,770
That's what we have right now.

2597
03:43:54,890 --> 03:43:57,990
I don't, you can sell the unit if it wasn't separately,

2598
03:43:58,330 --> 03:43:58,570
meters.

2599
03:43:58,670 --> 03:44:01,530
So I don't think the section about selling in here.

2600
03:44:01,530 --> 03:44:03,990
You won't be able to sell it.

2601
03:44:04,330 --> 03:44:06,530
She'll not be sold separately or subdivided.

2602
03:44:06,710 --> 03:44:08,390
It's a really necessary foot.

2603
03:44:09,030 --> 03:44:10,430
I think it's important to include.

2604
03:44:11,810 --> 03:44:15,790
You get people that will go and take a deed down to the county,

2605
03:44:16,150 --> 03:44:19,270
without city approval, and record it,

2606
03:44:19,510 --> 03:44:20,810
to create an illegal subdivision.

2607
03:44:20,970 --> 03:44:24,430
We wanted to be implicitly clear that that is not a,

2608
03:44:25,490 --> 03:44:26,330
That's not the intent.

2609
03:44:26,690 --> 03:44:26,950
Got you.

2610
03:44:27,190 --> 03:44:27,730
All right.

2611
03:44:27,730 --> 03:44:32,190
at least not right now, okay, modular homes are okay.

2612
03:44:33,150 --> 03:44:37,890
If they're on a permanent foundation, so if it's a pre-fab that's another way to reduce

2613
03:44:37,890 --> 03:44:44,870
costs that are much cheaper than building brand new pre-fab units is the great way to

2614
03:44:44,870 --> 03:44:48,990
get these into a property without exorbitant costs.

2615
03:44:49,450 --> 03:44:56,090
Yeah, and I don't, I think I already said this, but I just want 15 feet tall period, no two

2616
03:44:56,090 --> 03:44:59,270
for eight structures like this on any property.

2617
03:44:59,650 --> 03:44:59,810
Okay.

2618
03:45:01,100 --> 03:45:04,460
We're also seems to like that idea.

2619
03:45:05,080 --> 03:45:07,580
And Allison also seems to like that idea.

2620
03:45:09,500 --> 03:45:15,860
About it last time, we talked about one or one and a half, but not two, when we talked about it back in April.

2621
03:45:18,260 --> 03:45:29,480
Where we came to this was if it was allowed as an attached, with meaning that if they attach the adieu within that footprint of the home,

2622
03:45:29,480 --> 03:45:33,560
Wouldn't we allow it as a detached as long as it met those same setbacks?

2623
03:45:34,560 --> 03:45:36,260
That's that's where we came to as our

2624
03:45:36,660 --> 03:45:41,320
conclusion, but you can disagree and you can motion something different, but I'm just explaining

2625
03:45:41,320 --> 03:45:48,280
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You said within the footprint. Sorry within within the allowable area of the primary dwelling where it can go

2626
03:45:48,840 --> 03:45:53,520
So if it's attached to the house or detached as long as it's within that footprint

2627
03:45:53,520 --> 03:45:56,940
We thought if you would allow it for an attached

2628
03:45:56,940 --> 03:46:00,420
addition to the home, why wouldn't you allow it as a detached?

2629
03:46:00,760 --> 03:46:01,860
Not on a detached.

2630
03:46:02,480 --> 03:46:03,680
Let me specify.

2631
03:46:04,440 --> 03:46:06,780
And you can specify that.

2632
03:46:07,140 --> 03:46:08,040
I'm just explaining.

2633
03:46:08,240 --> 03:46:08,840
Oh, yeah.

2634
03:46:09,080 --> 03:46:10,740
The staff's recommendation.

2635
03:46:13,300 --> 03:46:14,000
Anything else?

2636
03:46:20,480 --> 03:46:22,620
So I don't have a question, but the process.

2637
03:46:23,280 --> 03:46:25,140
What is the expectation here?

2638
03:46:25,160 --> 03:46:27,020
So it has to be done by the first.

2639
03:46:27,660 --> 03:46:29,480
And we don't have a meeting next week.

2640
03:46:29,480 --> 03:46:34,700
So we're scheduled on your agenda for the 15th to come back.

2641
03:46:34,700 --> 03:46:36,120
And that's when you could.

2642
03:46:36,120 --> 03:46:38,580
You could make a decision then.

2643
03:46:38,580 --> 03:46:39,000
It's 10.

2644
03:46:39,200 --> 03:46:40,260
We are on the 20th.

2645
03:46:40,800 --> 03:46:41,140
Okay.

2646
03:46:41,500 --> 03:46:42,580
That's perfect.

2647
03:46:42,860 --> 03:46:43,640
It's just what's on the record.

2648
03:46:43,860 --> 03:46:45,620
The 22nd is the other day that's 10.

2649
03:46:45,720 --> 03:46:47,880
It's definitely scheduled if you need a next week.

2650
03:46:49,760 --> 03:46:50,440
That's good.

2651
03:46:50,640 --> 03:46:51,180
Thank you.

2652
03:46:53,640 --> 03:46:55,440
I think we're done.

2653
03:46:56,580 --> 03:47:01,160
Thank you both very much for being so thorough with all those.

2654
03:47:01,160 --> 03:47:02,400
answering all those questions.

2655
03:47:03,260 --> 03:47:06,160
Okay, do we need a break or

2656
03:47:07,020 --> 03:47:08,240
any of this always?

2657
03:47:09,080 --> 03:47:10,340
Yes, yes.

2658
03:47:13,730 --> 03:47:15,130
So yeah, let's take a break.

2659
03:47:15,990 --> 03:47:16,830
We'll be back in.

2660
03:47:20,410 --> 03:47:22,670
Okay, it has to be 10 though.

2661
03:47:23,930 --> 03:47:25,250
Don't stretch 10.

2662
03:47:26,910 --> 03:47:29,350
Okay, so we're going to take a 10 minute recess.

2663
03:47:29,710 --> 03:47:30,210
Is that accurate?

2664
03:47:30,570 --> 03:47:30,990
Okay, great.

2665
03:47:35,420 --> 03:47:36,400
Recording stopped.

2666
03:47:47,050 --> 03:47:53,210
We are moving on, oh no we're not, because we're not recording yet.

2667
03:47:53,450 --> 03:47:54,610
Recording in progress.

2668
03:47:55,970 --> 03:47:59,530
All right, we are continuing, thank you everyone, as we took our break.

2669
03:48:00,330 --> 03:48:07,270
I see movement over here, so as we move on to our consent calendar, motion to approve the consent calendar.

2670
03:48:09,170 --> 03:48:13,070
All right, we have a motion on the second, and we can just do a voice vote on this,

2671
03:48:13,170 --> 03:48:14,210
all in favor say aye.

2672
03:48:14,370 --> 03:48:14,890
Aye.

2673
03:48:15,330 --> 03:48:15,350
Aye.

2674
03:48:15,350 --> 03:48:16,110
Any opposed?

2675
03:48:17,490 --> 03:48:20,990
And just checking if Mr. DeKaiser is back with us.

2676
03:48:21,310 --> 03:48:23,410
Not yet?

2677
03:48:23,870 --> 03:48:25,030
Okay, but that pass.

2678
03:48:25,650 --> 03:48:26,250
Oh, yes.

2679
03:48:26,610 --> 03:48:27,050
Mr. Seventh.

2680
03:48:28,970 --> 03:48:32,390
Madam Chair, who was the second on that since we had multiple?

2681
03:48:32,590 --> 03:48:34,170
We'll call Mr. Stroud.

2682
03:48:36,400 --> 03:48:37,400
Thank you for clarifying.

2683
03:48:37,620 --> 03:48:39,960
Okay, so we're going to move on to our next item.

2684
03:48:41,500 --> 03:48:46,920
Mr. Meekham, I believe, is presenting our argument and favor of the general obligation bond.

2685
03:48:47,760 --> 03:48:54,380
thank you very much that is correct all right so we have some items in the packet and

2686
03:48:54,380 --> 03:48:59,860
the objective tonight is to talk about the items I put a memo in and I have an update so

2687
03:48:59,860 --> 03:49:07,700
we wrote the memo on Friday morning and since the memo was written we've received two notices

2688
03:49:09,200 --> 03:49:15,060
two put an argument in so one came from a resident for an argument four and another came

2689
03:49:15,060 --> 03:49:16,820
for an argument against.

2690
03:49:17,940 --> 03:49:21,860
So then what will happen is those were just notices.

2691
03:49:22,160 --> 03:49:23,860
We haven't received the actual arguments yet.

2692
03:49:23,960 --> 03:49:26,820
So the one thing you'd have in your packet is an argument

2693
03:49:26,820 --> 03:49:29,840
for it's incumbent upon the city to create an argument

2694
03:49:29,840 --> 03:49:31,980
for the sumi that no one else does.

2695
03:49:33,500 --> 03:49:36,400
So if there's an argument for this draft,

2696
03:49:36,500 --> 03:49:40,800
that's the one in your packet, then by September 4th,

2697
03:49:40,920 --> 03:49:44,640
which is Friday, we should have another argument for it.

2698
03:49:44,640 --> 03:49:54,900
Since there are two argument fours, then it's up by state statute to sub to the city elections official, which is money bounds to select between the two arguments.

2699
03:49:56,000 --> 03:50:00,920
Then also by September 4th on Friday the argument against should be received.

2700
03:50:00,430 --> 03:50:21,170
Then the recorder has one day to turn those around. So once we have an argument for an argument against, been there, swapped, and given to the authors of the arguments, and then there's a period of time where they have to write a rebuttal 250 words.

2701
03:50:21,170 --> 03:50:25,370
So then that all goes into the pamphlet that you're looking at.

2702
03:50:25,510 --> 03:50:31,390
So the pamphlet, the page pamphlet, is what will contain the arguments.

2703
03:50:31,870 --> 03:50:36,990
But 1,500 words have to fit into that pamphlet that's going out.

2704
03:50:37,150 --> 03:50:42,840
So that's the update to the memo of posse, if there's any questions about that before we move on.

2705
03:50:46,020 --> 03:50:50,720
There's questions, so two, four arguments who being submitted.

2706
03:50:52,960 --> 03:51:02,380
We will, we have to adopt one tonight, but Wendy Downs would compare the one that's being submitted to the one that we adopt and then decide.

2707
03:51:02,720 --> 03:51:07,200
And then she would solely decide, not the county.

2708
03:51:08,280 --> 03:51:08,340
No.

2709
03:51:08,340 --> 03:51:08,640
Okay.

2710
03:51:09,320 --> 03:51:09,420
Yeah.

2711
03:51:09,600 --> 03:51:09,680
Yeah.

2712
03:51:09,680 --> 03:51:14,520
It was the city election official who would decide between the two argument forms.

2713
03:51:15,060 --> 03:51:18,000
Can they only take two or can they combine them?

2714
03:51:18,000 --> 03:51:25,200
Well, now they don't know, no, no, no, no, I don't mean this just you, this one, or this one, that's all she's doing.

2715
03:51:27,400 --> 03:51:28,520
Okay, thank you.

2716
03:51:28,740 --> 03:51:30,000
Oh, no, go ahead and start.

2717
03:51:40,600 --> 03:51:47,960
The state's that we have to, that the city has to come up with an argument for correct?

2718
03:51:48,180 --> 03:51:49,440
The law states that.

2719
03:51:49,800 --> 03:51:58,260
So despite the fact that we've received one from a resident, we still have to, we still have to produce one.

2720
03:51:58,260 --> 03:52:04,140
What if we can't agree? What if tonight on this argument, we cannot agree and we cannot

2721
03:52:04,140 --> 03:52:10,120
pass the resolution adopting an argument in favor. Is there any world in which that could

2722
03:52:10,120 --> 03:52:15,800
happen and predict in your future, I would say that the Wendy would select the residences

2723
03:52:15,800 --> 03:52:23,100
of the argument before? Well, so the chair just made the comment, we have to adopt, do we have

2724
03:52:23,100 --> 03:52:25,500
What if we're unable to, is that okay?

2725
03:52:26,260 --> 03:52:32,950
Well, I think the, I think the, you have a proposal in front of you.

2726
03:52:33,250 --> 03:52:35,150
I assume I haven't seen it.

2727
03:52:35,710 --> 03:52:41,130
But if there's no effort to amend that, no consensus on amending it,

2728
03:52:41,250 --> 03:52:43,990
then the statement you have before you will be presented to the

2729
03:52:43,990 --> 03:52:47,290
election official as the statement from the city.

2730
03:52:48,230 --> 03:52:52,330
So the resolution, the vote on a resolution is not necessary.

2731
03:52:53,490 --> 03:53:05,250
Well, if the, I think the reason we're here to not, the reason Ryan is here tonight is to get the council feedback on what you want.

2732
03:53:05,470 --> 03:53:10,690
If there's no consensus on what you want, the city will still draft the statement. And they have.

2733
03:53:10,690 --> 03:53:13,390
And what a 100-print Brian is here.

2734
03:53:14,850 --> 03:53:15,030
Yeah.

2735
03:53:15,030 --> 03:53:22,210
So I'm just reading from State Statue 591604, which was referenced by our bond council.

2736
03:53:22,450 --> 03:53:24,830
It says, in the governing body of a taxing entity,

2737
03:53:24,990 --> 03:53:28,890
shall submit to the election officer and argument in favor of our proposition.

2738
03:53:30,570 --> 03:53:33,670
So that, to me, says we must do it.

2739
03:53:34,030 --> 03:53:39,630
And if two or more eligible voters wish to submit an argument for or an argument against about proposition,

2740
03:53:39,630 --> 03:53:43,850
the election officer shall designate one of the eligible voters to submit the argument.

2741
03:53:46,090 --> 03:53:48,790
Madam Chair, can I come in on this?

2742
03:53:49,010 --> 03:53:56,550
I had a conversation with Randy Larson or Bond Council about this exact question last week,

2743
03:53:56,550 --> 03:54:02,470
you know, on Friday, actually, and I asked that same question, what happens if the council

2744
03:54:02,470 --> 03:54:06,610
can't come to a conclusion on the resolution, and he said essentially what Brian said,

2745
03:54:06,610 --> 03:54:09,730
said, the city shall submit an argument.

2746
03:54:10,730 --> 03:54:14,170
And so the resolution isn't necessary.

2747
03:54:15,230 --> 03:54:18,690
I included a resolution, because the last time

2748
03:54:18,690 --> 03:54:20,830
we did a general obligation bond.

2749
03:54:21,590 --> 03:54:23,270
You adopted it by resolution.

2750
03:54:23,470 --> 03:54:25,370
And there's an argument for continuity, right?

2751
03:54:25,450 --> 03:54:27,050
Let's do it the same way, we've done it.

2752
03:54:27,470 --> 03:54:29,910
And the next time, let's do it the same way again.

2753
03:54:30,630 --> 03:54:33,170
But you may notice that in the staff report,

2754
03:54:33,170 --> 03:54:36,390
And this was also what I discussed with Bond Council.

2755
03:54:37,710 --> 03:54:41,830
They said, hey, if there's been an argument created,

2756
03:54:42,330 --> 03:54:44,510
and if the council doesn't adopt a resolution

2757
03:54:44,510 --> 03:54:47,830
to select one or to amend it, then the one

2758
03:54:47,830 --> 03:54:49,950
that was provided should be submitted.

2759
03:54:50,210 --> 03:54:54,090
Because again, the state statute doesn't necessarily

2760
03:54:54,090 --> 03:54:57,230
describe that a resolution is required.

2761
03:54:58,390 --> 03:54:59,930
So it's a little...

2762
03:55:00,000 --> 03:55:10,960
It's a little foggy because it does say the governing body shall do it. And I wish I had a better news for you on that.

2763
03:55:11,120 --> 03:55:20,140
But I think that one will have to get submitted whether you make changes to the one presented tonight, whether you adopt it, whether you don't adopt it.

2764
03:55:20,160 --> 03:55:27,100
I think it's incumbent on us to do so. And that's the same exactly what on council told me on Friday as well.

2765
03:55:27,100 --> 03:55:30,180
I don't want to speak for them, but that's what I was told.

2766
03:55:30,780 --> 03:55:33,120
So I'm wondering why the pessimism.

2767
03:55:33,800 --> 03:55:37,080
Now, is it the council just going to agree on language?

2768
03:55:37,200 --> 03:55:40,180
And we're going to pass it in about 15 minutes and move to the next item?

2769
03:55:41,320 --> 03:55:45,800
Yes. Are you a committee and all of a sudden to that rhetorical question?

2770
03:55:46,480 --> 03:55:56,400
What's wrong, Council did they advise you on who chose the one like Wendy, because I didn't

2771
03:55:56,400 --> 03:55:59,180
see that in anything that the Bond Council said?

2772
03:55:59,480 --> 03:56:02,440
Yes, and it states that the city election official.

2773
03:56:02,920 --> 03:56:09,200
He did that here, but we did talk, we did talk to Randy about it, and he said that almost

2774
03:56:09,200 --> 03:56:14,580
without exception that the one that's selected is the one that the city's drafted.

2775
03:56:15,420 --> 03:56:22,420
I'm not asking that. I'm asking, if there's more than one who does the choosing, if you

2776
03:56:22,420 --> 03:56:27,780
could dust them, would you verify that with you? Yeah, I just, we have verified that with

2777
03:56:27,780 --> 03:56:32,120
Bonkown. We have verified that. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's part of what I just read. It says the

2778
03:56:32,120 --> 03:56:37,060
election officer shall designate one of the eligible voters to send that. Okay.

2779
03:56:41,580 --> 03:56:42,760
So, that's the,

2780
03:56:42,760 --> 03:56:48,140
the first time. So, the one that, what dust and get in the resolution was referred to the

2781
03:56:48,140 --> 03:56:53,800
argument and so we pulled that argument out so it's a one-pager so you can see that separate from everything else

2782
03:56:54,880 --> 03:56:59,320
Then the next thing that's in your packet then is the Gilmore Bell

2783
03:57:00,060 --> 03:57:05,080
Memal that they gave to us with the dates and so what that says is that is that is that

2784
03:57:05,080 --> 03:57:12,340
Then the resident who said that they will put an argument for it hasn't until September 4th and the resident said that they have an argument against

2785
03:57:12,340 --> 03:57:15,940
They haven't till September 4 so assuming that that takes place

2786
03:57:15,940 --> 03:57:40,480
You know, let's call it the end of the day on September 4th, they arrive when you would turn that around the Monday and send them to, you know, make a decision send them and then they have until September 18 to do the rebuttals and so that then holds up the whole voter information pamphlets of the voter information pamphlet that this goes inside can't go out to the voters until all that's received and closed out.

2787
03:57:40,480 --> 03:57:45,560
So September 18, all that has to be received and what that equals then is basically 1,500

2788
03:57:45,560 --> 03:57:45,980
words.

2789
03:57:46,240 --> 03:57:53,280
750 words, 4, 750 words against and all of that gets put into the voter information

2790
03:57:53,280 --> 03:57:58,400
pamphlet, which is the other copy that you have in here and a lot of what's in the voter

2791
03:57:58,400 --> 03:58:01,820
information pamphlet is also driven by statute.

2792
03:58:02,180 --> 03:58:09,280
We've run this by a bond council, so the public meeting, the dates, the election dates, the

2793
03:58:09,280 --> 03:58:14,960
the John those things have been run by Council, then there's a blank spot in here for the argument

2794
03:58:14,960 --> 03:58:19,500
for and against now there will be an argument for argument against a rebuttal to the

2795
03:58:19,500 --> 03:58:25,920
four and rebuttal to the against. So this will morph. What I'm saying is that the voter information

2796
03:58:25,920 --> 03:58:35,500
can't fall for morph because only once we get those in, it'll have to be adjusted to make

2797
03:58:35,500 --> 03:58:40,260
And then we're starting the arguments and the lower information path.

2798
03:58:43,100 --> 03:58:43,780
Questions?

2799
03:58:47,120 --> 03:58:48,240
I don't have a question.

2800
03:58:48,480 --> 03:58:54,160
I think it's pretty straightforward, but I do have some thoughts to share with my colleagues.

2801
03:58:54,420 --> 03:58:55,340
So I think we're good.

2802
03:58:58,580 --> 03:59:07,700
So earlier we did receive some recommendations from staff as well, which I think is part of tonight's conversation.

2803
03:59:09,080 --> 03:59:18,220
So I'm going to just kind of kick off the conversation about what's been shared, because there was a lot in what staff drafted that I really really liked.

2804
03:59:18,520 --> 03:59:21,000
So I'm going to kick off those conversations.

2805
03:59:21,140 --> 03:59:25,040
I did share some little, you know, the teacher and me shared a few things.

2806
03:59:25,340 --> 03:59:28,100
So there were a few type of type of things that I've already shared.

2807
03:59:29,760 --> 03:59:35,400
But I want to just say that I support the adjustments that Justin and Justin have recommended.

2808
03:59:35,400 --> 03:59:42,480
And I think it's important that I share a little bit why and then would love to hear from from council colleagues

2809
03:59:43,960 --> 03:59:49,980
So at first some of the changes that they shared might be interpreted as weakening the argument

2810
03:59:49,980 --> 03:59:59,300
I think they actually do the opposite. I think they strengthened it. So as as we all know because it was just shared exactly this process what what this argument

2811
04:00:00,000 --> 04:00:10,020
It's not just a stand alone. The argument that gets published is printed in the voter pamphlet. Directly beside the argument that will be, because we are anticipating argument against.

2812
04:00:11,840 --> 04:00:26,620
And so every claim we make is beyond what is just in the argument itself. And so I think there's a few things that I really like about the new version. I'll just call it the new, the recommend, whatever we want to call it.

2813
04:00:27,220 --> 04:00:33,840
I think the original draft, it's Sates, canyons, you know, canyons will sell it to developers.

2814
04:00:34,620 --> 04:00:41,540
And though I understand that there's offers and that could be likely, I feel like we cannot prove intent.

2815
04:00:42,380 --> 04:00:44,200
The eventual buyer might be somebody else.

2816
04:00:44,220 --> 04:00:51,360
I think it's important that everything that we put in the argument is just very, very fact-based

2817
04:00:51,360 --> 04:00:56,380
and not necessarily causing alarm unnecessarily,

2818
04:00:56,540 --> 04:00:56,700
et cetera.

2819
04:00:57,400 --> 04:01:01,720
So that's one a change that I really liked.

2820
04:01:04,000 --> 04:01:05,060
Let's see.

2821
04:01:05,360 --> 04:01:06,940
And I believe the language was something

2822
04:01:06,940 --> 04:01:09,800
like a private buyer will decide how the land is used

2823
04:01:10,360 --> 04:01:11,420
for something like that.

2824
04:01:13,140 --> 04:01:15,380
I also want to strike.

2825
04:01:15,380 --> 04:01:19,640
And I think the new version is closer to what I think reflects

2826
04:01:19,640 --> 04:01:22,240
just fact-based language.

2827
04:01:22,960 --> 04:01:28,700
I had some concerns around language like dictated by outside interest, gone for good,

2828
04:01:29,040 --> 04:01:30,780
some more children can touch grass.

2829
04:01:30,960 --> 04:01:36,420
I understand why that might have been put in there, but I feel like it was perhaps unnecessarily

2830
04:01:36,960 --> 04:01:37,880
emotional language.

2831
04:01:38,240 --> 04:01:40,240
And so I kind of like the staff version.

2832
04:01:40,260 --> 04:01:47,700
I feel like it's really the same argument, but done in kind of a fact-based way.

2833
04:01:47,700 --> 04:01:51,440
So I think it's important that we stick to facts, not emotion.

2834
04:01:53,020 --> 04:02:00,160
I also really like that we are saying plainly that this is a $30 million ceiling.

2835
04:02:00,640 --> 04:02:03,980
We're very clear about issuing only a portion.

2836
04:02:05,540 --> 04:02:10,580
I think, again, disclosing that that's the ceiling and that we're asking voters to decide.

2837
04:02:11,440 --> 04:02:12,240
I like that.

2838
04:02:12,960 --> 04:02:18,260
So, for those reasons, there's other pieces, but those are the things I wanted to pull out.

2839
04:02:19,480 --> 04:02:23,600
I would like to support the staff language that has been shared with us.

2840
04:02:23,940 --> 04:02:28,980
I'd like to see that be what we end up adopting tonight.

2841
04:02:30,060 --> 04:02:40,550
I recognize we've been told that Wendy will have the final say because there will be another argument for to be considered.

2842
04:02:40,550 --> 04:02:43,570
But in terms of the action that we would take tonight,

2843
04:02:44,390 --> 04:02:47,690
I kind of would like to adopt the language

2844
04:02:47,690 --> 04:02:51,030
that was presented to us with, from staff.

2845
04:02:52,290 --> 04:02:53,810
So those are my thoughts?

2846
04:02:56,050 --> 04:02:56,410
The speech.

2847
04:02:56,970 --> 04:02:58,410
Pull that up.

2848
04:02:59,070 --> 04:03:00,270
So everyone can see it.

2849
04:03:01,090 --> 04:03:02,970
And I agree, or no?

2850
04:03:04,210 --> 04:03:04,390
Yeah?

2851
04:03:04,990 --> 04:03:05,250
Okay.

2852
04:03:05,950 --> 04:03:07,450
Just so everyone knows what we're talking about.

2853
04:03:08,070 --> 04:03:09,410
I agree with Misshausman,

2854
04:03:09,410 --> 04:03:13,730
Like, I think that I prefer the second option for many of the same reasons.

2855
04:03:13,730 --> 04:03:19,770
I don't want to vilify our partners in any way, and I don't want it to just be done.

2856
04:03:20,990 --> 04:03:21,790
Oh, yes, please.

2857
04:03:22,070 --> 04:03:22,570
I'm so sorry.

2858
04:03:22,590 --> 04:03:23,470
Can I pull up this?

2859
04:03:23,870 --> 04:03:24,370
Absolutely, yes.

2860
04:03:24,430 --> 04:03:28,410
Would you like me to pull up a red line version or a clean version and red line?

2861
04:03:28,410 --> 04:03:31,290
Red line sounds like, because then we're seeing contrast.

2862
04:03:31,910 --> 04:03:32,230
Sure.

2863
04:03:37,110 --> 04:03:40,070
When I whispered, I didn't realize my mic was hot eye-polleging.

2864
04:03:41,910 --> 04:03:46,770
But yeah, I didn't realize I had signal DS, I had not signal DS, so thank you.

2865
04:03:47,090 --> 04:03:56,230
But yeah, I agree with those things and also, I don't want the four argument to be locking

2866
04:03:56,230 --> 04:03:59,610
us into an option in the future that we may not be doing.

2867
04:04:00,650 --> 04:04:06,150
And so we don't know if we'll keep the whole thing or if we'll have to sell parts, but we

2868
04:04:06,150 --> 04:04:07,410
don't know what the future holds.

2869
04:04:07,410 --> 04:04:16,470
And so I want to I don't want to like lock us into something and then for voters to come back and be like, oh, you didn't say that. So do you want to talk about there.

2870
04:04:20,140 --> 04:04:29,660
Other thoughts? Questions about the okay let me wait get get the council to weigh in on this. Miss Michirky.

2871
04:04:29,940 --> 04:04:38,500
I really appreciate those comments and I agree with them and it sounds like as council members reviewed the packet there was some level of discomfort.

2872
04:04:38,500 --> 04:04:48,460
about the tons and suggestions and I totally and wholeheartedly agree with even though this

2873
04:04:48,460 --> 04:04:57,760
is an argument in favor so it is biased let's just make it very very very factual let's

2874
04:04:57,760 --> 04:04:59,960
stick to the facts, let's...

2875
04:05:00,050 --> 04:05:06,570
Have no insinuations, no fear-mongering, nothing like that if we can strip away stuff like that.

2876
04:05:07,090 --> 04:05:16,070
I do really like these changes. I have even a couple more to suggest to run by you guys and see how you feel about it.

2877
04:05:19,840 --> 04:05:30,400
I really like this new first sentence, introductory sentence. I think it's really good. I was a little bit uncomfortable with the original had my own set of changes.

2878
04:05:30,400 --> 04:05:31,840
like this one best.

2879
04:05:34,160 --> 04:05:44,130
The paragraph that talks about the community has used this for generations.

2880
04:05:45,390 --> 04:05:54,950
Open space, our community has used for generations. It's 40 years. Generations to me, triggers

2881
04:05:54,950 --> 04:06:04,230
It's 75, 100 year, a generation is generally seen to be 25 years, although it's not well defined.

2882
04:06:05,490 --> 04:06:08,570
But I just think it's only been 40 years.

2883
04:06:09,610 --> 04:06:13,830
So my thought would either be to use that, you know,

2884
04:06:13,830 --> 04:06:16,950
something that the community has used for 40 years.

2885
04:06:18,170 --> 04:06:24,050
Or maybe decades, generations to me evokes a much longer period of time than the period of time

2886
04:06:24,050 --> 04:06:26,050
that's actually lapsed.

2887
04:06:26,490 --> 04:06:27,710
Yeah, just

2888
04:06:31,260 --> 04:06:32,860
changing this as we go.

2889
04:06:33,960 --> 04:06:37,800
What would you like from how can we best help you trackable?

2890
04:06:37,880 --> 04:06:40,860
I mean, we're happy to edit it as you go.

2891
04:06:41,020 --> 04:06:43,520
What I would suggest is I don't want to make edits

2892
04:06:43,520 --> 04:06:45,440
that just one person is suggesting

2893
04:06:45,440 --> 04:06:48,100
without a agreement right from the group.

2894
04:06:49,060 --> 04:06:50,680
And so I don't know that it needs to be a motion

2895
04:06:50,680 --> 04:06:53,940
or anything like that, but if somebody suggests an edit,

2896
04:06:53,940 --> 04:07:00,780
You know, if we could get a, you know, yes or no, you know, a hand-up if you agree that would go.

2897
04:07:00,780 --> 04:07:05,880
Can we go maybe like paragraph by paragraph and just sort of, are we good?

2898
04:07:05,880 --> 04:07:07,820
Okay, that sounds great.

2899
04:07:08,180 --> 04:07:12,020
So, and we're talking about the red line version reflecting the changes.

2900
04:07:12,720 --> 04:07:16,960
So paragraph, paragraph the first one starts with a yes vote.

2901
04:07:17,940 --> 04:07:18,940
Are we good with that?

2902
04:07:18,940 --> 04:07:26,000
I would like to strike the opportunity to just go in and then, and no vote, I would like to strike all that language.

2903
04:07:26,600 --> 04:07:27,480
Wait, where are you?

2904
04:07:27,640 --> 04:07:29,540
We're on the first one.

2905
04:07:29,700 --> 04:07:29,960
Yes.

2906
04:07:30,500 --> 04:07:35,460
On the crescent view bondage, your sandy city directly controls the future of this property.

2907
04:07:36,420 --> 04:07:41,880
If the city does not purchase it, then it will be sold to a private buyer.

2908
04:07:42,920 --> 04:07:45,580
And that buyer will decide how the land is used.

2909
04:07:46,720 --> 04:07:49,180
So thumbs up while are we good with that?

2910
04:07:51,840 --> 04:07:52,180
Okay.

2911
04:07:53,140 --> 04:07:53,940
I like that.

2912
04:07:53,980 --> 04:07:54,800
I'll just read for everybody.

2913
04:07:54,980 --> 04:07:55,440
Is that okay?

2914
04:07:57,360 --> 04:07:59,220
That is the choice before voter stays.

2915
04:08:00,080 --> 04:08:01,580
So looking at the next one.

2916
04:08:01,800 --> 04:08:08,260
A yes vote gives Sandy the ability to secure this property before the opportunity is gone.

2917
04:08:08,600 --> 04:08:14,260
A no vote means the city misses out and the fields, gyms and open space our community

2918
04:08:14,260 --> 04:08:15,760
has used for decades.

2919
04:08:15,760 --> 04:08:20,900
will have their futures directed by outside interests.

2920
04:08:22,560 --> 04:08:27,460
I would like to strike that a no vote means that entire language.

2921
04:08:27,760 --> 04:08:32,240
I think there's too much emotion and could be her.

2922
04:08:32,580 --> 04:08:35,220
Have their futures directed by outside interests?

2923
04:08:35,460 --> 04:08:37,220
I think that's a little.

2924
04:08:38,100 --> 04:08:41,640
I guess we still have a say in what goes on.

2925
04:08:41,780 --> 04:08:44,000
No matter what goes on, it's going to come to the council.

2926
04:08:44,940 --> 04:08:48,500
So I don't necessarily see that being outside interest.

2927
04:08:49,540 --> 04:08:56,080
I still think we need to put in the no portion of it, though, just because, like, yes or no, okay?

2928
04:08:58,740 --> 04:09:04,860
The truth is that we, the city will miss out on the fields and so I think that...

2929
04:09:04,860 --> 04:09:12,280
But it'll also miss out on everything else that the residency has been told about what could possibly go there.

2930
04:09:12,280 --> 04:09:16,760
and we didn't want to put too much in there about what could go there because we don't know

2931
04:09:16,760 --> 04:09:24,240
what's going there. So, if we can take out the fields and gyms, a no vote means the city

2932
04:09:25,200 --> 04:09:27,060
misses out on the opportunity.

2933
04:09:30,120 --> 04:09:36,580
Is the, is the, is the, their futures part, the part that is troubling you, like,

2934
04:09:37,200 --> 04:09:47,800
Well, their futures, that's fine, that I can go with that one and then end it right there by outside interests, I think needs to be strict.

2935
04:09:50,020 --> 04:09:56,760
In Ovo, it means the city misses out, and the fields, gyms, and open space, our community has used for decades.

2936
04:09:59,200 --> 04:09:59,940
We have to fill.

2937
04:10:02,760 --> 04:10:13,340
What about a no vote means a city will not have control over the fields, gyms and open space? Is that, instead of miss is out, is that?

2938
04:10:17,170 --> 04:10:20,250
Because we wouldn't have control over it.

2939
04:10:20,470 --> 04:10:23,610
Then miss is out. I'm wondering if that's part of that.

2940
04:10:23,830 --> 04:10:30,030
I see we say, do you want to change it? Or leave it first to see if there's enough people that want to change it?

2941
04:10:37,480 --> 04:10:47,700
Yeah, I mean, it could be as simple as that, bro, if you're right. I mean, it could just be a no vote means the city will not move forward with the purchase and the property will be purchased by

2942
04:10:47,700 --> 04:10:50,500
Or will not move forward with the purchase period

2943
04:10:51,600 --> 04:10:53,580
Because we did

2944
04:10:57,010 --> 04:10:58,950
What did you say, Brooke?

2945
04:10:59,770 --> 04:11:06,010
I would just say that instead of missing out, just go back to what was originally there and say does not purchase

2946
04:11:06,010 --> 04:11:06,290
Yes.

2947
04:11:06,770 --> 04:11:07,390
It, period.

2948
04:11:08,170 --> 04:11:12,930
And the small purchase, it, and the fields, gyms, and the open space, our community has used

2949
04:11:12,930 --> 04:11:14,170
for decades, period.

2950
04:11:15,470 --> 04:11:15,970
Or what?

2951
04:11:16,050 --> 04:11:17,230
We have to finish the sentence.

2952
04:11:18,990 --> 04:11:21,550
No vote means the city does not purchase.

2953
04:11:21,690 --> 04:11:23,030
Oh, take out the end.

2954
04:11:23,610 --> 04:11:24,270
Does not purchase.

2955
04:11:24,690 --> 04:11:28,970
It does not purchase the fields, gyms, and open space, our community has used for decades.

2956
04:11:30,650 --> 04:11:30,790
Yeah.

2957
04:11:31,010 --> 04:11:31,530
I'll find that.

2958
04:11:31,650 --> 04:11:32,450
I can go with that.

2959
04:11:32,690 --> 04:11:32,930
Okay.

2960
04:11:32,930 --> 04:11:44,070
I think we have, so it would be a yes vote, give Sandy the ability to secure, whoop, I know

2961
04:11:44,070 --> 04:11:45,330
you're ranking that is.

2962
04:11:47,330 --> 04:11:50,230
Secure this property before the opportunity is gone.

2963
04:11:50,650 --> 04:11:58,970
A no vote means the city does not purchase, it does not purchase the fields, gyms, and

2964
04:11:58,970 --> 04:11:59,630
open space.

2965
04:11:59,850 --> 04:12:01,510
Our community has used for decades.

2966
04:12:02,770 --> 04:12:02,890
Yeah.

2967
04:12:05,100 --> 04:12:06,940
Yeah, building. Correct.

2968
04:12:07,280 --> 04:12:08,100
Madam Chairman.

2969
04:12:08,740 --> 04:12:10,700
Can I maybe make a suggestion on the language?

2970
04:12:10,740 --> 04:12:11,760
Can I read an idea?

2971
04:12:16,800 --> 04:12:19,220
A no vote means the city loses this opportunity.

2972
04:12:20,240 --> 04:12:23,820
And the future of the fields, gyms, and open space,

2973
04:12:24,200 --> 04:12:25,740
our community, as used for generations,

2974
04:12:26,420 --> 04:12:29,320
may ultimately be determined by private interests

2975
04:12:29,320 --> 04:12:30,980
rather than the community itself.

2976
04:12:32,960 --> 04:12:33,320
I think we're...

2977
04:12:33,320 --> 04:12:35,000
Isn't that the truth though?

2978
04:12:35,220 --> 04:12:35,440
Yes.

2979
04:12:37,580 --> 04:12:39,020
I think all of it is the truth.

2980
04:12:39,020 --> 04:12:42,580
It's just how much you want to be neutral, right?

2981
04:12:42,580 --> 04:12:45,880
Yes, and to provide an emotional response to it.

2982
04:12:45,900 --> 04:12:49,600
We have to be neutral, but we also have to sell this.

2983
04:12:49,860 --> 04:12:51,840
One comment, Madam Chair as well.

2984
04:12:52,560 --> 04:12:53,620
This is an neutral argument.

2985
04:12:53,820 --> 04:12:55,100
It's an argument in favor.

2986
04:12:55,660 --> 04:12:55,720
Right?

2987
04:12:56,040 --> 04:12:57,240
There's an argument opposed.

2988
04:12:57,540 --> 04:12:58,220
It's going to be submitted.

2989
04:12:58,300 --> 04:12:59,500
This is an argument in favor.

2990
04:12:59,560 --> 04:13:02,040
It's not meant to be a neutral statement.

2991
04:13:02,060 --> 04:13:02,700
Well, factual.

2992
04:13:02,980 --> 04:13:03,260
Right.

2993
04:13:03,420 --> 04:13:04,740
It's in a conjecture.

2994
04:13:05,580 --> 04:13:07,800
The information packet that's been,

2995
04:13:07,800 --> 04:13:13,680
the information pamphlet that's been provided is going to produce the factual non-biased information.

2996
04:13:14,000 --> 04:13:24,200
This is the 500 word argument in favor of the bond. If you take away too much, it's no longer an argument in favor.

2997
04:13:24,460 --> 04:13:28,780
It's just additional factual information within the voter information pamphlet.

2998
04:13:29,320 --> 04:13:30,160
Yeah, that's fair.

2999
04:13:32,100 --> 04:13:33,780
It's okay. You're supposed to be active.

3000
04:13:38,070 --> 04:13:43,470
I like the first version. I like Tracy's version. I think they're both fair. That's my opinion.

3001
04:13:45,760 --> 04:13:49,900
I'm fine with the first version with the swap of gender decades for generations.

3002
04:13:50,580 --> 04:13:56,520
Well, and I think it does not purchase it. I think we need to say it does not purchase the building, the fields, gyms, and open space.

3003
04:13:56,880 --> 04:13:58,300
Because purchase it.

3004
04:13:58,620 --> 04:13:59,660
It will be a loss.

3005
04:14:00,440 --> 04:14:06,060
Period. And do we have to go to development? Because we're going to develop it too.

3006
04:14:06,600 --> 04:14:07,060
I guess.

3007
04:14:10,800 --> 04:14:11,440
Second paragraph.

3008
04:14:11,440 --> 04:14:12,140
What

3009
04:14:14,600 --> 04:14:17,420
I say, the original, I mean like the original amendment at it.

3010
04:14:17,520 --> 04:14:19,780
Yeah, but if we go back, start without death.

3011
04:14:20,280 --> 04:14:26,640
How about if we, yeah, how about if we just, it's, it's, it's, we take what, what

3012
04:14:26,640 --> 04:14:34,560
staff brought to us, but we take out generations and we add decades and add building and building and building.

3013
04:14:39,700 --> 04:14:45,460
So would you like to add the word building or facility prior to fields?

3014
04:14:47,960 --> 04:14:59,760
Yes, the building, so a no vote means the city misses out and the building feels Jim's an open space our community has used for decades will have.

3015
04:15:00,000 --> 04:15:03,360
They're futures directed by outside interests.

3016
04:15:05,930 --> 04:15:08,230
Okay? I'm trying to find out more for that.

3017
04:15:10,110 --> 04:15:17,430
Okay. Next paragraph, open space is more precious than ever. The opportunity to purchase 17 acres of open land,

3018
04:15:17,530 --> 04:15:20,410
next to an existing city park is extraordinarily rare.

3019
04:15:20,770 --> 04:15:24,970
Purchasing crescent view would allow the city to combine it with the adjacent eight-acre

3020
04:15:24,970 --> 04:15:30,230
across the park, creating approximately 25 acres of public park and community space, something

3021
04:15:30,230 --> 04:15:33,490
this area of the city lacks. Are we good?

3022
04:15:35,090 --> 04:15:42,350
I don't like that last phrase, something this area of the city lacks. There is an eight-acre park

3023
04:15:42,350 --> 04:15:51,790
aboveing this. So I just think you eliminate, you strike that last, that last section.

3024
04:15:52,530 --> 04:15:54,130
You've put a period at it.

3025
04:15:54,310 --> 04:16:04,570
I think that for me, what that sentence or that phrase is saying is, this area of the city does not have 25 acres of public park and community space.

3026
04:16:06,330 --> 04:16:07,290
Yeah, yeah.

3027
04:16:08,190 --> 04:16:09,790
I'm just saying that's how I interpret this.

3028
04:16:10,950 --> 04:16:13,330
And I'm okay with it, but I can be in the minority.

3029
04:16:17,080 --> 04:16:19,440
This should be strike that last phrase.

3030
04:16:19,660 --> 04:16:20,860
Okay, who else needs it straight?

3031
04:16:20,860 --> 04:16:26,260
I think striking it would be appropriate too.

3032
04:16:26,440 --> 04:16:29,020
So just after instead of a comedy with period,

3033
04:16:29,100 --> 04:16:30,160
without what you're saying, Cindy.

3034
04:16:31,140 --> 04:16:31,220
Yes.

3035
04:16:31,360 --> 04:16:32,660
A period after space.

3036
04:16:32,720 --> 04:16:34,520
And strike the end of the sentence.

3037
04:16:34,700 --> 04:16:35,980
You could do that?

3038
04:16:36,140 --> 04:16:36,340
Okay.

3039
04:16:36,820 --> 04:16:37,680
Let's do that.

3040
04:16:37,720 --> 04:16:38,460
To be with Sarah.

3041
04:16:38,800 --> 04:16:39,820
I think we did.

3042
04:16:40,600 --> 04:16:42,070
I don't see him.

3043
04:16:43,440 --> 04:16:44,340
See if you have a picture in the

3044
04:16:46,870 --> 04:16:46,890
case.

3045
04:16:47,170 --> 04:16:47,510
Okay.

3046
04:16:49,690 --> 04:16:50,510
So period, yeah.

3047
04:16:50,670 --> 04:16:51,570
Period after continuous space.

3048
04:16:51,570 --> 04:16:54,310
the next paragraph. No changes. We're good with the next paragraph.

3049
04:16:55,970 --> 04:16:56,830
No. Okay.

3050
04:17:05,300 --> 04:17:07,840
I did have a question about the 60 years of use.

3051
04:17:08,080 --> 04:17:12,380
Yeah, that's was I we haven't been supplied with an inspection.

3052
04:17:13,180 --> 04:17:16,560
But is it is it going to be in the voter information packet?

3053
04:17:17,640 --> 04:17:22,960
The evidence that there's been an inspection indicating this is accurate statement?

3054
04:17:24,260 --> 04:17:25,760
Mr. Frado, do you know?

3055
04:17:25,760 --> 04:17:29,600
I do not know, there's nothing in the information packet at this time.

3056
04:17:29,780 --> 04:17:34,680
There is a link within the information pamphlet to the

3057
04:17:34,680 --> 04:17:36,160
Crescent website.

3058
04:17:37,000 --> 04:17:38,480
I don't know if that's listed there.

3059
04:17:38,600 --> 04:17:40,200
I have not looked.

3060
04:17:40,860 --> 04:17:42,700
Mr. Johnson, do you have an answer for that question?

3061
04:17:42,980 --> 04:17:47,840
I may have to get Dan to come up, but we did have the building inspected and looked at

3062
04:17:47,840 --> 04:17:52,000
and it received a good bill of help for the age of the building.

3063
04:17:52,000 --> 04:17:57,840
the 60 years I would need to check with Dan Nelson or that came from.

3064
04:17:58,040 --> 04:18:02,420
Can I have a thought does that mean just like the building, the roof, obviously not the

3065
04:18:02,420 --> 04:18:02,940
like the mechanical.

3066
04:18:02,980 --> 04:18:04,380
Yeah, the mechanical as well.

3067
04:18:05,340 --> 04:18:11,180
For 60 more years, we shouldn't have to replace the mechanical or the roof.

3068
04:18:12,020 --> 04:18:15,300
Those things won't, usually a roof won't last 60 years.

3069
04:18:16,220 --> 04:18:17,780
So that doesn't seem accurate.

3070
04:18:18,160 --> 04:18:21,600
But just because your house's roof needs a new roof doesn't mean it's not.

3071
04:18:23,860 --> 04:18:28,100
You know, there's this range of use and more extensive crisis talk.

3072
04:18:28,340 --> 04:18:34,100
Sorry, I was multitasking, but I think the question is, is the 60-year representation?

3073
04:18:35,140 --> 04:18:39,540
Yeah, that came from the architect, but you know, that assumes just the bones of the structure.

3074
04:18:40,280 --> 04:18:45,400
You know, you will have to replace the roof, the mechanical, everything else.

3075
04:18:46,120 --> 04:18:52,280
But 60 years, you know, with updates and renovations, the building's good for another 60 years.

3076
04:18:52,280 --> 04:18:54,900
So that maybe that's the language that is needed.

3077
04:18:54,940 --> 04:18:58,220
But from it wasn't a building inspection, it was the architect.

3078
04:19:00,530 --> 04:19:03,750
I just think that it could be confusing and misleading,

3079
04:19:06,070 --> 04:19:08,330
because it's getting late and I can't think of words,

3080
04:19:09,510 --> 04:19:17,210
but it leads you to believe that the building to the laymen, you know, the entire thing is good for 60 years, and that's not what we're trying to say.

3081
04:19:17,590 --> 04:19:20,910
I'm a layman, I would never take that from this.

3082
04:19:20,910 --> 04:19:29,830
like, Madam Chair, so, you know, usually, and I'm no architect, I'm not, I'm not, I don't do

3083
04:19:29,830 --> 04:19:36,110
dance job, but the term that I've usually used is the life of the facility. And so, I,

3084
04:19:36,290 --> 04:19:43,790
I wonder if we could change it to say it has 60 years of useful life, or 60 year life

3085
04:19:43,790 --> 04:19:48,190
Just being a web, something along those lines, I don't know that's 60 years.

3086
04:19:48,570 --> 04:19:51,510
That would be the language in a praise.

3087
04:19:51,630 --> 04:19:54,570
It would probably say 60 years of useful life.

3088
04:19:55,030 --> 04:19:59,750
You could add their, you know, with regular updates or with, you know, renovation.

3089
04:20:03,300 --> 04:20:10,260
What if we set up to another 60 years of useful life? I think that's more general.

3090
04:20:12,300 --> 04:20:17,660
And would follow what you would expect to hear, is Dan just said from an appraisal.

3091
04:20:19,120 --> 04:20:28,300
I understand the concern with putting 60 years. Is it guaranteed to be 60 years and expected or up to, I think,

3092
04:20:28,300 --> 04:20:33,280
You can soften it with a word like, you know,

3093
04:20:33,420 --> 04:20:36,140
expensive estimated, right, estimated softens it, right?

3094
04:20:36,380 --> 04:20:38,720
So, estimated 60 years of useful life.

3095
04:20:39,180 --> 04:20:41,500
My concern with it, I guess, just to be clear,

3096
04:20:41,720 --> 04:20:43,680
is I don't want people to read that,

3097
04:20:43,800 --> 04:20:46,520
and assume that there's not going to be any additional money

3098
04:20:46,520 --> 04:20:49,900
spent on the building, like the mechanical or the roof,

3099
04:20:50,400 --> 04:20:53,320
because they've taken from it that it's good for 60 years.

3100
04:20:53,580 --> 04:20:55,360
And so, you know, I can't remember

3101
04:20:55,360 --> 04:21:01,320
We're sure how to have a suggestion with diligent maintenance or with regular maintenance.

3102
04:21:01,360 --> 04:21:01,540
Okay.

3103
04:21:02,540 --> 04:21:03,060
Do you do?

3104
04:21:08,800 --> 04:21:14,560
And I do what I would like to specify where that 60 years came from, which was not an inspection.

3105
04:21:14,800 --> 04:21:15,440
It was an architect.

3106
04:21:18,030 --> 04:21:20,530
What is it technically called?

3107
04:21:20,830 --> 04:21:22,210
What is it in your world?

3108
04:21:22,830 --> 04:21:23,750
Well, I mean maintenance.

3109
04:21:24,110 --> 04:21:25,450
I think that's a little more light.

3110
04:21:25,450 --> 04:21:30,270
know the inspection or like was it in like what do you call it and it

3111
04:21:30,270 --> 04:21:35,310
consultation I'd say yeah we hired think as a consultant to advise on

3112
04:21:35,310 --> 04:21:41,990
potential uses of the building yeah we had we had our facilities people go

3113
04:21:41,990 --> 04:21:46,530
through it and they looked at some of the systems and then the architect came

3114
04:21:46,530 --> 04:21:50,870
through and just looked at the structure but you know we didn't actually do a you know

3115
04:21:50,870 --> 04:21:53,650
structural analysis on it.

3116
04:21:54,070 --> 04:21:57,730
And then after life, what did we say with regular,

3117
04:21:57,730 --> 04:21:58,910
with routine maintenance?

3118
04:21:59,050 --> 04:22:02,270
I mean, to me, maintenance sounds a little bit more like

3119
04:22:03,790 --> 04:22:06,030
janitorial, I would say it's, you know,

3120
04:22:06,070 --> 04:22:09,870
for 60 years, you are talking on the roof, on the HVC,

3121
04:22:11,610 --> 04:22:13,250
you know, new doors, new windows.

3122
04:22:13,490 --> 04:22:15,970
I mean, those are the kind of things that you would budget

3123
04:22:15,970 --> 04:22:17,210
for 60 year buildings.

3124
04:22:17,210 --> 04:22:21,170
So, I, you know, you could say updates with regular, um,

3125
04:22:23,980 --> 04:22:27,140
yeah, I'm trying to think I don't have my facade, but, uh,

3126
04:22:30,830 --> 04:22:34,790
yeah, I like it.

3127
04:22:34,970 --> 04:22:36,230
Great job, Dustin.

3128
04:22:37,330 --> 04:22:39,070
Everyone good.

3129
04:22:40,930 --> 04:22:41,110
Okay.

3130
04:22:41,770 --> 04:22:42,990
Thank you for that, Tim.

3131
04:22:43,730 --> 04:22:43,990
Okay.

3132
04:22:45,010 --> 04:22:46,330
I'll just read the next one.

3133
04:22:46,330 --> 04:22:53,410
Yes, vote authorizes Sandy City to issue up to 30 million in general obligation bonds to purchase and improve the property.

3134
04:22:53,610 --> 04:22:56,230
The city may ultimately issue only a portion of that amount.

3135
04:22:56,650 --> 04:23:02,930
If the full amount is issued, the estimated property tax impact on an average home value of $739,100.

3136
04:23:03,810 --> 04:23:08,430
Is approximately $5 per month if your home is valued less than you would pay less?

3137
04:23:09,190 --> 04:23:10,530
Anyone opposed to that language?

3138
04:23:11,470 --> 04:23:11,570
Well,

3139
04:23:13,660 --> 04:23:15,740
that's what I think you need to put in there.

3140
04:23:15,740 --> 04:23:19,140
Yeah, if your home is valued at more than you pay more.

3141
04:23:19,420 --> 04:23:19,580
Okay.

3142
04:23:22,220 --> 04:23:23,060
I don't care.

3143
04:23:23,120 --> 04:23:23,680
I don't care.

3144
04:23:23,760 --> 04:23:26,320
I think you have the average home as this.

3145
04:23:26,620 --> 04:23:30,600
If I live in a $500,000 home, then I can deduct that I'm going to pay less.

3146
04:23:30,800 --> 04:23:32,760
If I live in a million-dollar home, I can deduct that much.

3147
04:23:33,440 --> 04:23:34,180
Mr. Fraud?

3148
04:23:34,440 --> 04:23:36,320
Yeah, I wouldn't add that.

3149
04:23:36,420 --> 04:23:41,720
I would leave it as is or take out the sentence about then you would pay less.

3150
04:23:42,100 --> 04:23:45,840
Again, remember, this is the argument for the bond.

3151
04:23:46,400 --> 04:23:46,860
Not a...

3152
04:23:46,860 --> 04:23:51,860
You're going to pay more down the middle right here's information for everyone

3153
04:23:53,040 --> 04:23:54,700
on both sides of the story.

3154
04:23:55,260 --> 04:23:56,920
I'm comfortable with it as written.

3155
04:24:04,550 --> 04:24:06,170
I think we have support to leave it as it is.

3156
04:24:06,210 --> 04:24:09,050
I don't know not everyone agrees but the majority does.

3157
04:24:09,510 --> 04:24:09,950
All right, next.

3158
04:24:10,310 --> 04:24:13,070
A yes vote does not approve a final plan.

3159
04:24:13,450 --> 04:24:17,090
Instead, it empowers the city to thoughtfully shape the site's future

3160
04:24:17,090 --> 04:24:21,290
alongside residents, whether through the preservation of athletic fields,

3161
04:24:21,290 --> 04:24:27,090
utilizing the indoor facility for recreation and cultural events or exploring strategic partnerships

3162
04:24:27,090 --> 04:24:34,990
and city led development that directly benefits our community. Any opposed? I'm in favor.

3163
04:24:40,720 --> 04:24:45,580
I think it gives clear vision of what it could be.

3164
04:24:47,620 --> 04:24:50,220
Okay, I'm not seeing any opposition. Okay, we're

3165
04:24:50,220 --> 04:24:58,380
good. We're going to move on. Yes, vote does not. Oh, I just read that. The bond reserves are ability

3166
04:24:58,380 --> 04:24:59,440
to make those choices.

3167
04:25:00,000 --> 04:25:12,660
Relinquishing the land to a third party takes that choice away, period. I think that's very straightforward. Okay, I think we're good. Some opportunities once lost do not come back.

3168
04:25:12,960 --> 04:25:24,260
Previous generations chose to give Sandy the Park's Trails and Public Spaces residents enjoy today, like the Sandy amphitheater. This is our opportunity to make our mark on the future.

3169
04:25:25,320 --> 04:25:28,800
Does that imply that the Sandy amp of the year was paid for with a bond?

3170
04:25:29,300 --> 04:25:33,720
Because it was not a diamond tax fair when it was used to pay for that.

3171
04:25:33,900 --> 04:25:35,120
It was in keeper tax.

3172
04:25:40,410 --> 04:25:42,390
To me, it does not know just wondering why that?

3173
04:25:42,770 --> 04:25:49,350
It's just saying, because I think that's something that a lot of residents are very aware of.

3174
04:25:49,530 --> 04:25:50,310
Oh, okay.

3175
04:25:51,630 --> 04:25:58,690
The charge to give does not mean there's the choice was the same pathway for every choice.

3176
04:25:58,690 --> 04:26:02,010
They just, through whatever path was chosen,

3177
04:26:02,710 --> 04:26:04,370
they made this idea at theater possible.

3178
04:26:04,970 --> 04:26:08,370
So I'm comfortable with chose to give, but...

3179
04:26:09,770 --> 04:26:13,130
I would like us to look at the word hour.

3180
04:26:13,250 --> 04:26:14,770
This is our opportunity.

3181
04:26:15,230 --> 04:26:18,230
It suggests that it's the only, it's the only one.

3182
04:26:18,450 --> 04:26:19,590
It's one of those again,

3183
04:26:19,970 --> 04:26:23,310
how about an opportunity or another opportunity.

3184
04:26:23,830 --> 04:26:27,450
We've talked about others that we've used in the past,

3185
04:26:27,450 --> 04:26:33,250
other opportunities that we've had in use, do we say this is another opportunity or this

3186
04:26:33,250 --> 04:26:38,150
is an opportunity or an opportunity and I guess depending on how strong you want to make it,

3187
04:26:38,210 --> 04:26:43,010
this is your opportunity to make our mark on the future, depending if you want it strong.

3188
04:26:43,430 --> 04:26:48,830
This is the in favor, this is for trying to speak to those that may consider

3189
04:26:54,140 --> 04:26:54,820
it.

3190
04:26:54,900 --> 04:27:00,300
And better than your, because once again that suggests that it's singular, right?

3191
04:27:00,300 --> 04:27:02,820
the only one this is your only opportunity.

3192
04:27:02,840 --> 04:27:04,140
I'm good with Anne.

3193
04:27:04,500 --> 04:27:04,620
That's fine.

3194
04:27:04,860 --> 04:27:05,620
I get optimistic.

3195
04:27:06,540 --> 04:27:07,020
May I?

3196
04:27:07,100 --> 04:27:07,420
Please.

3197
04:27:08,120 --> 04:27:09,200
I think you could do bold.

3198
04:27:09,260 --> 04:27:10,680
I almost wonder if it shouldn't be.

3199
04:27:10,680 --> 04:27:13,840
This is an opportunity to make your mark on the future.

3200
04:27:15,620 --> 04:27:17,000
Well, because that's true.

3201
04:27:17,000 --> 04:27:20,260
Because the individual voters is an opportunity to make your mark.

3202
04:27:20,360 --> 04:27:25,120
It's not an opportunity to make our mark necessarily or an opportunity to make the mark.

3203
04:27:25,980 --> 04:27:33,900
because they are the ones making this choice and it's not every resident will have an

3204
04:27:33,900 --> 04:27:38,600
opportunity to vote on something like this in the future. So yeah, this is an

3205
04:27:38,600 --> 04:27:42,920
opportunity to make your mark on the future. Are we good with that?

3206
04:27:43,020 --> 04:27:46,740
Is this a public hearing of it? Are we taking public common in it?

3207
04:27:47,120 --> 04:27:47,560
Yes. Okay.

3208
04:27:47,900 --> 04:27:48,620
Those four, we vote.

3209
04:27:48,820 --> 04:27:49,000
Oh, hello.

3210
04:27:49,760 --> 04:27:51,580
The voting item, not a public hearing item.

3211
04:27:51,880 --> 04:27:52,900
I mean, a voting item.

3212
04:27:52,900 --> 04:27:57,660
Yeah, you need a comma after trails, parks, trails, comma, and public spaces.

3213
04:27:58,180 --> 04:28:00,240
That's one of those people to pay money if you're older not.

3214
04:28:00,560 --> 04:28:04,880
So yes, I'm an Oxford comma person because there's also a paragraph above that I would put it there too.

3215
04:28:06,740 --> 04:28:08,120
But, okay. Put the comma.

3216
04:28:08,740 --> 04:28:09,840
You teachers.

3217
04:28:09,840 --> 04:28:10,660
I know.

3218
04:28:11,100 --> 04:28:13,680
Marcia already sent me her teacher as well.

3219
04:28:14,200 --> 04:28:16,460
There's one more paragraph I'd put it there too, but I'd bit my tongue.

3220
04:28:18,300 --> 04:28:20,560
for me to include your work.

3221
04:28:21,580 --> 04:28:22,780
Yep, perfect.

3222
04:28:23,780 --> 04:28:25,660
All right, then we struck the next one.

3223
04:28:26,200 --> 04:28:27,460
Are we good with that strike?

3224
04:28:28,040 --> 04:28:28,100
Yeah.

3225
04:28:29,240 --> 04:28:31,000
The ones these 17 acres are gone.

3226
04:28:31,180 --> 04:28:31,940
We're striking that.

3227
04:28:32,440 --> 04:28:32,680
Okay.

3228
04:28:33,320 --> 04:28:36,700
And then the last one, vote yes on the Crescent View General obligation

3229
04:28:36,700 --> 04:28:40,060
bond to keep Sandy's future in Sandy's hands.

3230
04:28:40,500 --> 04:28:44,540
Ensuring an invaluable impact on your fellow residents today

3231
04:28:44,540 --> 04:28:49,080
day, and for generations to come. I'm good with that.

3232
04:28:55,290 --> 04:28:56,710
I think we have walked our

3233
04:28:56,710 --> 04:28:57,590
way through.

3234
04:29:00,290 --> 04:29:05,270
Yeah, you'll do a quick work count, maybe. I can. I know you've been

3235
04:29:05,270 --> 04:29:10,870
in space for it. I think we're fine. And you're also missing another like an A or

3236
04:29:10,870 --> 04:29:15,130
somewhere, so you'll probably want to look down. So I'd make a motion to approve

3237
04:29:15,130 --> 04:29:20,650
resolution 26-90C with the changes we've made tonight.

3238
04:29:20,910 --> 04:29:25,410
Does that include the photoreinformation packet data tube?

3239
04:29:25,410 --> 04:29:26,550
No, the language in there.

3240
04:29:26,810 --> 04:29:28,330
This is only the, right?

3241
04:29:28,950 --> 04:29:30,910
Uh, it's not the resolution was changed.

3242
04:29:32,210 --> 04:29:33,350
Yeah, I would suggest.

3243
04:29:33,670 --> 04:29:38,890
So we sent a couple very minor suggested edits to the VIP as well.

3244
04:29:38,930 --> 04:29:39,330
Yes.

3245
04:29:39,330 --> 04:29:43,810
Just based on this, I would suggest those as well.

3246
04:29:43,810 --> 04:29:49,070
what you could do is you could just direct me to provide those to the administration and

3247
04:29:49,070 --> 04:29:55,750
to you to provide those. With the chain, we caught the misalignment of number of acres.

3248
04:29:56,610 --> 04:29:59,710
Yes, I did speak with Martin about that.

3249
04:30:00,820 --> 04:30:02,380
That's what I meant.

3250
04:30:02,840 --> 04:30:03,320
Yes, that's what I meant.

3251
04:30:03,400 --> 04:30:05,400
Okay, hold on, hold on.

3252
04:30:05,900 --> 04:30:06,760
Mr. Jensen.

3253
04:30:07,480 --> 04:30:10,800
Just wanted to address the voter information pamphlet and then come back.

3254
04:30:11,400 --> 04:30:27,040
Just as a reminder, we've run the pamphlet through Gilmore Bell as well to make sure that they have reviewed the information that that is educational information and has been scrubbed from trying to be influential.

3255
04:30:27,700 --> 04:30:33,840
at the same time, we are trying to make sure that it's consumable and that the reader, whether

3256
04:30:33,840 --> 04:30:37,760
you're four against or you know nothing about it and you're learning about it for the first

3257
04:30:37,760 --> 04:30:41,360
time, receives the information and can process that.

3258
04:30:42,260 --> 04:30:45,220
Are you before I take a second? Because we have a motion.

3259
04:30:55,510 --> 04:31:00,290
Let's hold, I don't know. You made a motion. I feel like we need to wait and see if there's a second.

3260
04:31:00,290 --> 04:31:01,770
We can still have discussion.

3261
04:31:02,250 --> 04:31:02,730
Madam Chair.

3262
04:31:02,850 --> 04:31:03,670
We just, yes.

3263
04:31:04,170 --> 04:31:08,130
Why don't we disperse with the argument first,

3264
04:31:08,410 --> 04:31:10,770
and then you can give us direction on the voter information

3265
04:31:10,770 --> 04:31:12,330
of the pamphlet, that's what I would suggest.

3266
04:31:12,450 --> 04:31:13,130
I like that.

3267
04:31:13,130 --> 04:31:16,450
Is the resolution only for the...

3268
04:31:16,450 --> 04:31:16,830
Correct.

3269
04:31:17,270 --> 04:31:18,290
It's only for the argument.

3270
04:31:18,650 --> 04:31:19,090
That's correct.

3271
04:31:19,430 --> 04:31:21,130
If there is any more, are we vote on it?

3272
04:31:21,330 --> 04:31:23,370
Yeah, I was planning to vote on the motion.

3273
04:31:24,130 --> 04:31:24,250
Okay, second.

3274
04:31:25,750 --> 04:31:28,510
So there's repeat, repeat the motion,

3275
04:31:28,710 --> 04:31:29,670
because now we have clarity.

3276
04:31:29,670 --> 04:31:52,690
We're all talking about motion two approve resolution 26-90C with the edits that we made tonight and any other like minor of those we need to add in because I think there's only one more and then that's it and then you direct the general if you did that you can give us that direction in a moment.

3277
04:31:52,690 --> 04:31:54,070
let's say certificate the resolution.

3278
04:31:54,830 --> 04:31:56,070
Okay, second.

3279
04:31:56,290 --> 04:31:57,850
We have a motion and a second.

3280
04:31:58,670 --> 04:32:01,010
So we're not going to, we will take public comment on this

3281
04:32:01,010 --> 04:32:03,910
because it's a voting item, but we had,

3282
04:32:03,990 --> 04:32:06,470
could you hold off on the voter information packet

3283
04:32:06,470 --> 04:32:08,110
because we're going to do that next?

3284
04:32:08,130 --> 04:32:11,070
Maybe, I don't know, so we don't get to vote

3285
04:32:11,070 --> 04:32:12,210
on voter information packet.

3286
04:32:12,410 --> 04:32:12,710
Yes, we do.

3287
04:32:13,030 --> 04:32:14,610
It's coming back for a vote, yes.

3288
04:32:14,990 --> 04:32:16,610
Well, no, no, no, no.

3289
04:32:16,610 --> 04:32:17,770
I won't be coming back for a vote.

3290
04:32:18,090 --> 04:32:21,330
Well, we are going to discuss it and give him feedback.

3291
04:32:21,330 --> 04:32:25,350
I do not want to. I personally don't want to vote on this until we have the discussion

3292
04:32:25,350 --> 04:32:28,830
on the voter information packet because if I can't, like there's something that's really

3293
04:32:28,830 --> 04:32:37,110
important to me and right around I'm tying my vote to, you know, discussing it in potential

3294
04:32:37,110 --> 04:32:42,910
agreement on the edition. I see it here. I would, I would like to wait to discuss it.

3295
04:32:42,930 --> 04:32:47,230
Okay. Claire's key should be for understanding is that this resolution doesn't have anything

3296
04:32:47,230 --> 04:32:51,030
to do with the voter package. It does not, but I understand that you're saying you're

3297
04:32:51,030 --> 04:32:58,690
maybe contingent on that. Correct. The one thing I'll say is any edits, the reason we didn't include

3298
04:32:58,690 --> 04:33:04,110
the VIP, the voter information pamphlet, and this resolution, is for the reason that it does need

3299
04:33:04,110 --> 04:33:09,610
to get go through bond council. And so you can provide suggested edits and such, but we will

3300
04:33:09,610 --> 04:33:15,410
need to have bond council review those of that would be my suggestion. I understand, and I feel

3301
04:33:15,410 --> 04:33:18,770
comfortable that it should be appropriate, but I understand.

3302
04:33:20,130 --> 04:33:24,510
Okay, so I know you don't want to vote until, but I would like to take public comment

3303
04:33:24,510 --> 04:33:26,490
just because it's already really late.

3304
04:33:26,970 --> 04:33:29,650
And for those who've been waiting to make public comment on this,

3305
04:33:29,670 --> 04:33:32,690
I want to give them that opportunity that we can bring it back

3306
04:33:32,690 --> 04:33:35,650
and part of our discussion before we vote can be that.

3307
04:33:35,910 --> 04:33:36,090
It's fair.

3308
04:33:36,710 --> 04:33:38,990
Okay, so go ahead and move to public comment.

3309
04:33:38,990 --> 04:33:43,770
I do not have any blue cards for this item, but it is a voting item,

3310
04:33:43,770 --> 04:33:46,790
So we do like to give the opportunity for public comment.

3311
04:33:47,490 --> 04:33:50,650
So if there's anyone in the chambers who would like to do that.

3312
04:33:50,950 --> 04:33:51,930
And Madam Chair?

3313
04:33:52,070 --> 04:33:52,390
Yes.

3314
04:33:52,710 --> 04:33:57,290
So I did receive a written comment that I was asked to read into the record as well.

3315
04:33:58,230 --> 04:34:00,610
We'll do that after we do virtual.

3316
04:34:02,550 --> 04:34:04,270
I'm not seeing anything in the room.

3317
04:34:04,570 --> 04:34:07,670
So let's go ahead and move to those online participants, Mr. Freddo.

3318
04:34:07,770 --> 04:34:08,190
OK.

3319
04:34:08,870 --> 04:34:12,610
If you're joining us virtually and you'd like to comment

3320
04:34:12,610 --> 04:34:16,090
on. I'm sorry guys, what item are we on?

3321
04:34:17,050 --> 04:34:21,130
Item number 9. Item number 9 on this evening's agenda. Go ahead and click the

3322
04:34:21,130 --> 04:34:23,690
raise hand button on your screen now and you'll have three minutes.

3323
04:34:38,710 --> 04:34:38,930
Not singing

3324
04:34:38,930 --> 04:34:42,650
any hands raised madam chair. Can I go ahead and read the comment I have into the

3325
04:34:42,650 --> 04:34:45,510
record? Give me just one moment to pull it up.

3326
04:34:55,750 --> 04:34:57,830
Okay, so this comment was sent in

3327
04:34:57,830 --> 04:34:59,530
by Jason Nichol.

3328
04:35:01,300 --> 04:35:07,020
Council members, thank you for taking time to consider my comments. I encourage you to reconsider the bond initiative for the

3329
04:35:07,020 --> 04:35:13,160
present view property while this might seem like a good opportunity. I'm greatly concerned with the rapid escalation and process.

3330
04:35:13,880 --> 04:35:18,040
There are too many unanswered questions to commit public funding of this grant amount.

3331
04:35:18,880 --> 04:35:23,300
Number one, why are we paying almost twice the appraised value for the property?

3332
04:35:23,660 --> 04:35:28,200
Number two, why are we not able to get more accurate on going maintenance and operations?

3333
04:35:28,200 --> 04:35:30,040
dollars figures from the school district.

3334
04:35:30,340 --> 04:35:35,800
Number three, why are we relying on information gathered in a public poll and only 46% of the

3335
04:35:35,800 --> 04:35:40,920
responses were actual residents of the city with the responsibility to pay for the proposed

3336
04:35:40,920 --> 04:35:41,440
property.

3337
04:35:42,280 --> 04:35:46,300
Number four, why are we moving forward with this project without any firm understanding of what

3338
04:35:46,300 --> 04:35:46,880
will happen?

3339
04:35:47,480 --> 04:35:52,240
Number five, why are we defaulting to scare tactics and half truths when educating the

3340
04:35:52,240 --> 04:35:53,720
public on this potential purchase?

3341
04:35:54,420 --> 04:35:56,260
Number six, why do we need more?

3342
04:35:56,280 --> 04:35:58,000
We're currently rebuilding out the canyon.

3343
04:35:58,000 --> 04:36:02,920
we have a higher percentage of open space, parks and trails per population than any other municipality

3344
04:36:02,920 --> 04:36:08,840
in the county and the need for more has not been demonstrated or articulated clearly to the

3345
04:36:08,840 --> 04:36:14,460
public. At the very least ensure that the false statements and apply it results for purchasing

3346
04:36:14,460 --> 04:36:17,920
the property or based in fact in not conjecture.

3347
04:36:25,200 --> 04:36:28,980
Thank you, Mr. Frado. So see no additional public comment.

3348
04:36:29,180 --> 04:36:33,260
We'll go ahead and close public comment. Bring it back to the council for deliberation.

3349
04:36:34,540 --> 04:36:39,900
Let's disuse it when you lead us off with what you'd like to see in better information.

3350
04:36:40,200 --> 04:36:43,900
So it goes back to the one thing that I felt really strongly about being included,

3351
04:36:44,120 --> 04:36:48,020
which was the future operations and maintenance expenses.

3352
04:36:48,840 --> 04:36:53,460
And in this section, it does kind of elute to it, but in a very vague kind of way.

3353
04:36:53,540 --> 04:36:58,420
And I'd like to have a sentence added to be a little bit more clear.

3354
04:36:59,520 --> 04:37:00,360
So it's the same.

3355
04:37:00,360 --> 04:37:04,620
chair if I could raise a point of order I don't mean to be rude council member

3356
04:37:04,620 --> 04:37:09,220
this is it but is this germane to the motion that we're about to vote on?

3357
04:37:09,540 --> 04:37:14,660
Yes Mr. DeKaiser it the request was made that we do not vote until we have this

3358
04:37:14,660 --> 04:37:19,000
conversation because it will inform it could potentially inform her vote.

3359
04:37:20,560 --> 04:37:21,820
You might have not been there for it.

3360
04:37:21,840 --> 04:37:26,880
Probably just yield and no vote not a discussion in my opinion has nothing to do with

3361
04:37:26,880 --> 04:37:27,320
the motion.

3362
04:37:29,040 --> 04:37:35,440
Okay, so it's the section that says, what is the estimated cost to tax payers?

3363
04:37:35,780 --> 04:37:41,740
And at the very last sentence, it says, state law prohibits geobon proceeds from being used

3364
04:37:41,740 --> 04:37:44,560
for ongoing operation and maintenance expenses.

3365
04:37:45,500 --> 04:37:50,080
I'd like to, so it leads to it, but I'd like to add, if the bond is approved, the city

3366
04:37:50,080 --> 04:37:54,760
will still need to determine how those fund, how those future operating and maintenance costs

3367
04:37:54,760 --> 04:37:55,320
will be funded.

3368
04:37:56,740 --> 04:38:04,400
That was a point on it, and I like the language in the video that we use doing the council

3369
04:38:04,400 --> 04:38:05,360
video.

3370
04:38:05,820 --> 04:38:09,420
It could result in a second, another property taxic.

3371
04:38:09,620 --> 04:38:18,140
Well, I want to make sure that we are neutral enough that it could, it passes, you know,

3372
04:38:18,160 --> 04:38:23,920
legal, but I do feel really strongly, and I made that clear throughout this entire discussion

3373
04:38:23,920 --> 04:38:29,040
that we be specific about that in the voter pamphlet, and I, you know, was assured that it

3374
04:38:29,040 --> 04:38:32,840
would be included, but it's not, in my opinion.

3375
04:38:32,900 --> 04:38:39,840
I think unless it's stated, we aren't being fully, we aren't fully disclosing what the magnitude

3376
04:38:39,840 --> 04:38:40,760
of that is.

3377
04:38:41,040 --> 04:38:48,120
So that's my request to the council and to administration is to include that sentence in

3378
04:38:48,120 --> 04:38:48,600
that place.

3379
04:38:48,600 --> 04:38:56,980
And I would like to move it to what is the estimate and costs of the taxpayer, because that instead of tucked in the back.

3380
04:39:00,450 --> 04:39:05,470
I think she wants to attach to where we're already saying something about it.

3381
04:39:05,510 --> 04:39:07,430
It's in the last paragraph right here.

3382
04:39:08,250 --> 04:39:12,870
Don't you want it to follow the sentence that already says something about operations?

3383
04:39:13,850 --> 04:39:19,770
Yeah, I'm not trying to change the whole thing and recreate the will and understand that it's already been reviewed through

3384
04:39:19,770 --> 04:39:26,850
bond council and so I'm trying to be conservative with my changes in a way that still reflects

3385
04:39:28,790 --> 04:39:31,830
the overall just in the importance.

3386
04:39:32,210 --> 04:39:35,190
Can you clarify where you were requesting it go?

3387
04:39:35,410 --> 04:39:38,750
So in this section of what is the estimated cost of a taxpayer?

3388
04:39:39,410 --> 04:39:42,790
It's on the geobon covers right there.

3389
04:39:43,090 --> 04:39:46,330
So it's after that last sentence.

3390
04:39:47,670 --> 04:39:54,650
So the state law prohibits geo-bond proceeds from being used for ongoing operations and maintenance expenses.

3391
04:39:55,410 --> 04:39:59,950
I'd like to add, if the bond is approved, the city will still need to determine.

3392
04:40:00,000 --> 04:40:05,020
And how do you use future or excuse me? How those future operating and maintenance costs will be funded?

3393
04:40:08,900 --> 04:40:12,880
And then leave the full paragraph in there as well.

3394
04:40:15,160 --> 04:40:18,080
Could you read a different page about how do you operating expenses?

3395
04:40:20,910 --> 04:40:21,890
Mr. Rattum.

3396
04:40:23,130 --> 04:40:27,850
Council Member Disco, so would you mind just reading your sentence one more time? I got about two thirds of the way through it.

3397
04:40:28,010 --> 04:40:36,610
If the bond is approved, comma, the city will still need to determine how those future operating and maintenance costs will be funded.

3398
04:40:38,920 --> 04:40:43,120
So it's an additional sentence, not changing anything in the paragraph.

3399
04:40:43,280 --> 04:40:44,980
No, and I would read everything else.

3400
04:40:45,180 --> 04:40:49,600
I would just be an addition to tie that together in that area.

3401
04:40:50,100 --> 04:40:54,460
I don't understand why you wouldn't add the language about a possible tax increase together.

3402
04:40:55,020 --> 04:40:57,640
Because devil advocate did we do it for fire station 31?

3403
04:40:58,960 --> 04:41:01,340
If we didn't have it in there for that one.

3404
04:41:01,780 --> 04:41:06,480
I mean, this one I think, it's a rarely, I think this was well worth it.

3405
04:41:06,480 --> 04:41:13,720
Well, I think it's more neutral than that and still includes the possibility that that exists.

3406
04:41:13,820 --> 04:41:14,680
That's the option.

3407
04:41:16,100 --> 04:41:19,840
But it could be a lot of your say decisions will need to be made as to how it will be funded.

3408
04:41:20,160 --> 04:41:21,540
And I think that's honest.

3409
04:41:28,920 --> 04:41:29,560
It's simple.

3410
04:41:29,760 --> 04:41:31,160
I think it's an appropriate addition.

3411
04:41:34,700 --> 04:41:37,680
I think personally, I think it's kind of...

3412
04:41:38,740 --> 04:41:40,160
It's too far to the other side.

3413
04:41:40,160 --> 04:41:42,920
I think we've gone from like the middle to one side or the other.

3414
04:41:42,920 --> 04:41:45,140
I think that just pushes it a little too far.

3415
04:41:46,720 --> 04:41:47,840
But we all said Mike.

3416
04:41:48,160 --> 04:41:51,520
Council members, could we remind you to make sure hearing you in the system?

3417
04:41:51,840 --> 04:41:53,860
Okay, I included on 31.

3418
04:41:54,640 --> 04:41:59,400
I mean, I know that we're coming from, but I think this is probably a pretty...

3419
04:41:59,400 --> 04:42:06,120
I just need to know if you're in favor of adding that sentence in the way that she shared it.

3420
04:42:06,120 --> 04:42:06,760
I'm fine.

3421
04:42:06,760 --> 04:42:15,080
I'm fine. Yes, yes. No. And Mr. Jensen, thoughts on adding that sentence?

3422
04:42:15,140 --> 04:42:18,700
We would take it and run a pass our bond council for their input.

3423
04:42:19,060 --> 04:42:26,800
We understand that. That's appropriate. Okay, so we're saying we're willing to add that in and he will

3424
04:42:26,800 --> 04:42:33,380
run it by a bound council. Is that the only, okay, do we have anything else before we?

3425
04:42:33,380 --> 04:42:33,840
I'm sure.

3426
04:42:34,220 --> 04:42:39,100
Would you like me to pull up the suggested that it's the we had a staff to the voter information

3427
04:42:39,100 --> 04:42:39,600
pamphlet?

3428
04:42:39,700 --> 04:42:39,940
Sure.

3429
04:42:42,020 --> 04:42:44,880
You said you had a few, right?

3430
04:42:45,080 --> 04:42:45,360
Yeah.

3431
04:42:45,780 --> 04:42:46,960
They're fairly minor.

3432
04:42:47,520 --> 04:42:48,420
Let's do it.

3433
04:42:53,220 --> 04:42:56,500
It's along the lines of what you suggested on the argument in favor.

3434
04:42:56,960 --> 04:43:02,960
If the bond is not approved, it says Canyon School District has indicated it will sell the property

3435
04:43:02,960 --> 04:43:03,840
for development.

3436
04:43:04,460 --> 04:43:07,540
Would we replace the word will with me?

3437
04:43:09,410 --> 04:43:09,610
Sure.

3438
04:43:09,610 --> 04:43:17,310
Let's see what Dustin's bringing up because maybe we sent these suggested red lines to the

3439
04:43:17,310 --> 04:43:25,890
council earlier today on page 4 of the VIP so we're suggesting adding a sentence at the

3440
04:43:25,890 --> 04:43:31,970
end of the what could present view become. We suggest adding to strategic public private

3441
04:43:31,970 --> 04:43:36,950
partnerships or city directed development to that as well since the council discussed it.

3442
04:43:36,950 --> 04:43:44,230
Also, on page 4 under the if the bond is not approved section, we've suggested taking out

3443
04:43:44,230 --> 04:43:50,790
Cainian Civil District, noting the current owner, and then replacing for development with

3444
04:43:50,790 --> 04:43:55,750
two a private buyer. So, the current owner has indicated it will sell the property to a private

3445
04:43:55,750 --> 04:44:04,790
buyer. I've just added in the section that was just requested by the council. I haven't added it

3446
04:44:04,790 --> 04:44:11,810
as a red line, because I just haven't had an opportunity to yet, but we will page 5, again,

3447
04:44:12,270 --> 04:44:17,310
we're suggesting you use the language of the current owner and to a private buyer instead

3448
04:44:17,310 --> 04:44:24,310
of Canyon School District and for development, and then page 7, the question that we had

3449
04:44:24,310 --> 04:44:29,630
as whether you wanted to include the concept plan into the IP or remove it.

3450
04:44:30,830 --> 04:44:32,670
You have the image of the concept plan.

3451
04:44:33,470 --> 04:44:39,910
For the reason that the concept plan, I think it gives the perception that that is what's going to happen.

3452
04:44:40,650 --> 04:44:43,710
I don't know that that's accurate or not, but that's your guess is decision obviously.

3453
04:44:45,070 --> 04:44:50,410
And the image is it still, I should remember, but I'm not.

3454
04:44:50,770 --> 04:44:53,330
It's still showing the single family housing.

3455
04:44:56,810 --> 04:44:59,950
Sorry, I'm a little...

3456
04:45:00,760 --> 04:45:17,540
So those are our suggestions. My recommendation would be take action on the resolution and the argument in favor, and then give us direction. If you're okay with those to provide this sheet to the administration so that they can show it to bond council.

3457
04:45:18,580 --> 04:45:21,920
And make those edits assuming bond council is okay with them.

3458
04:45:21,920 --> 04:45:31,340
I think on where it says concept plan 1 is if we put sample or optional example, I mean, something.

3459
04:45:31,740 --> 04:45:33,840
What do you do with the five scenarios?

3460
04:45:34,400 --> 04:45:36,480
The five scenarios in that little spot?

3461
04:45:36,760 --> 04:45:38,320
That's a lot.

3462
04:45:39,900 --> 04:45:41,020
If you did the five.

3463
04:45:41,120 --> 04:45:46,420
I think the language explains all of the possible things that could be done.

3464
04:45:47,920 --> 04:45:47,980
Right?

3465
04:45:48,760 --> 04:45:55,980
I don't want to cause confusion with multiple because it's not like the poster session where people can get their questions answered.

3466
04:45:56,340 --> 04:46:00,660
And it's said earlier that it was the way we had not decided what we were doing.

3467
04:46:00,960 --> 04:46:02,480
But we still have right at the beginning.

3468
04:46:03,440 --> 04:46:04,720
I don't care if we leave it in.

3469
04:46:06,240 --> 04:46:07,460
I would concur with that.

3470
04:46:07,580 --> 04:46:14,800
We don't want to confuse the voters by giving them five options when the four asking them to vote for or against.

3471
04:46:14,800 --> 04:46:22,160
And so, if we add five options, even though it's been discussed, Council and Nichol is in the past,

3472
04:46:22,280 --> 04:46:24,620
that's not what we're asking them to do in this.

3473
04:46:24,980 --> 04:46:26,880
And it says here in the last paragraph to you,

3474
04:46:26,880 --> 04:46:31,560
concept one was developed to illustrate what could be possible at that funding level.

3475
04:46:31,960 --> 04:46:38,000
It is not a final development plan and the specific improvements have not been finalized.

3476
04:46:38,460 --> 04:46:40,600
I don't know, I think it calls it out pretty well.

3477
04:46:40,600 --> 04:46:42,700
Yeah, I think so take out the image.

3478
04:46:43,240 --> 04:46:45,260
No, I don't think we need to.

3479
04:46:45,900 --> 04:46:47,340
I think if anything, if we wanted to change it,

3480
04:46:47,380 --> 04:46:50,240
we could just put example or something across the top.

3481
04:46:50,360 --> 04:46:54,640
Where it says concept plan one, but I mean,

3482
04:46:54,880 --> 04:46:58,320
it's concept is just a possible concept.

3483
04:46:58,640 --> 04:47:01,420
And if I may, if you read the headings,

3484
04:47:01,720 --> 04:47:04,200
we've tried to explain what has happened so far

3485
04:47:04,200 --> 04:47:07,620
and then explaining the public engagement process, once again,

3486
04:47:07,620 --> 04:47:13,420
We're just trying to inform, get people up to speed that may not have tuned into our council

3487
04:47:13,420 --> 04:47:18,620
meetings, attended the two public meetings that we had at the property.

3488
04:47:19,160 --> 04:47:20,460
We're just trying to explain the process.

3489
04:47:23,120 --> 04:47:25,020
Okay, so what I'd like to do is go ahead.

3490
04:47:25,080 --> 04:47:26,140
We have a motion a second.

3491
04:47:26,300 --> 04:47:32,520
I'd like to take a vote on the motion, which is to adopt the resolution that is exclusively

3492
04:47:32,520 --> 04:47:36,220
the four argument for the general obligation bond.

3493
04:47:36,220 --> 04:47:42,520
And then let's determine, like, provide direction around the voter information packet.

3494
04:47:43,340 --> 04:47:44,920
So, we have a motion of second cup.

3495
04:47:45,280 --> 04:47:46,940
I said, Council member Edwards.

3496
04:47:48,820 --> 04:47:49,260
Ms. Edwards.

3497
04:47:50,140 --> 04:47:51,100
Thank you, Madam Chair.

3498
04:47:51,480 --> 04:47:52,160
Ms. Christensen?

3499
04:47:52,480 --> 04:47:52,860
Yes.

3500
04:47:53,240 --> 04:47:53,900
Ms. Stroud?

3501
04:47:54,180 --> 04:47:54,420
Yes.

3502
04:47:55,000 --> 04:47:55,660
Ms. Nicole?

3503
04:47:55,940 --> 04:47:56,300
Yes.

3504
04:47:57,160 --> 04:47:58,060
Ms. Houseman?

3505
04:47:58,100 --> 04:47:58,520
Yes.

3506
04:47:59,100 --> 04:47:59,840
Ms. Sharkey?

3507
04:48:02,560 --> 04:48:03,220
Ms. Tassusa?

3508
04:48:04,140 --> 04:48:04,380
Yes.

3509
04:48:05,280 --> 04:48:14,080
Mr. DeKaiser. Yes. Madam Chair, that motion carries six to one. Thank you. Okay, so we, Mr.

3510
04:48:14,180 --> 04:48:20,320
Prado walked us through. I, I like all of the recommendations that, that you've captured.

3511
04:48:20,800 --> 04:48:25,600
I, my understanding is the process and, and I want to hear from everyone. I'm just sharing my feedback.

3512
04:48:26,360 --> 04:48:31,560
The process would be, you will share those with the administration, administration will fold those in.

3513
04:48:31,560 --> 04:48:33,420
Put it in front of Bond Council.

3514
04:48:33,600 --> 04:48:38,440
Bond Council will ultimately weigh in on what if those can be added.

3515
04:48:39,000 --> 04:48:42,120
Are you supportive of that if that's the direction the council gives?

3516
04:48:42,560 --> 04:48:44,980
Yes, can I provide some feedback about this evening?

3517
04:48:45,000 --> 04:48:47,840
Just really quick about this process, since you've just asked about the process.

3518
04:48:49,700 --> 04:48:54,220
With all due respect, I recognize the council's need and authority

3519
04:48:54,220 --> 04:48:57,180
together and to discuss this.

3520
04:48:57,180 --> 04:49:03,700
We as an administration were card every week to try and provide information to the council as early as possible

3521
04:49:03,700 --> 04:49:08,440
We recognize there's deadlines and recognize that the time frame of of this bond

3522
04:49:08,780 --> 04:49:15,220
We have some deadlines. We have to meet there is frustration for me personally and I would assume from

3523
04:49:15,620 --> 04:49:23,360
Others in the administration about not receiving any of these red lines or proposed changes to the argument for a head of time

3524
04:49:23,680 --> 04:49:26,120
Even just a courtesy. Hey, we're working on those

3525
04:49:26,120 --> 04:49:28,860
So, it is frustrating.

3526
04:49:29,920 --> 04:49:43,360
I appreciate the dialogue and the fact that we've gone through and we're trying to make something that is informational and educational to our residents, but it would have been nice to have even had acknowledgement this afternoon that here are some proposed changes.

3527
04:49:44,420 --> 04:49:44,880
Thank you.

3528
04:49:45,080 --> 04:49:46,080
Thank you for that feedback.

3529
04:49:47,480 --> 04:49:54,940
Okay, so I shared my thoughts on what Dustin walks through. Other thoughts please.

3530
04:49:57,400 --> 04:49:59,940
You're good with what we walk through, the re-

3531
04:50:00,000 --> 04:50:02,240
For the voter information packet.

3532
04:50:02,540 --> 04:50:07,100
I like it, just when I get the picture. That was the only one I did.

3533
04:50:07,740 --> 04:50:09,200
Okay. I like the picture in there.

3534
04:50:09,900 --> 04:50:12,180
The single picture. I don't want to take that out.

3535
04:50:12,260 --> 04:50:13,700
With a little bit of patience.

3536
04:50:14,640 --> 04:50:17,280
You can wordsmith and whatever.

3537
04:50:18,840 --> 04:50:24,260
Well, I'll just, I'll just remove the section where I've talked about removing that image.

3538
04:50:24,780 --> 04:50:25,040
Right.

3539
04:50:25,040 --> 04:50:28,280
but there was a conversation about tidal in it,

3540
04:50:28,740 --> 04:50:30,040
sampler, something,

3541
04:50:32,200 --> 04:50:33,120
it's called concept.

3542
04:50:37,880 --> 04:50:41,500
I think the idea that concept is just a concept.

3543
04:50:41,800 --> 04:50:43,980
I just didn't know there was more resistance.

3544
04:50:44,140 --> 04:50:47,380
So the title is the concept behind the 30 million.

3545
04:50:47,740 --> 04:50:51,020
And then right below the image, it says concept plan 1 already.

3546
04:50:55,910 --> 04:51:05,530
So, we, we, we, we're good motion to have staff share this, do we need a motion?

3547
04:51:05,770 --> 04:51:06,370
We do right.

3548
04:51:06,710 --> 04:51:09,530
Do you have clarity on the direction we're trying to provide?

3549
04:51:09,730 --> 04:51:11,710
Yeah, I, I, I don't need a motion.

3550
04:51:11,930 --> 04:51:13,630
I'm happy to pass this along to the administration.

3551
04:51:14,470 --> 04:51:14,610
Okay.

3552
04:51:16,560 --> 04:51:17,140
All right.

3553
04:51:17,260 --> 04:51:21,860
So, I think we are good with item number nine.

3554
04:51:22,300 --> 04:51:22,400
All right.

3555
04:51:22,940 --> 04:51:23,460
Mr. Jensen.

3556
04:51:24,600 --> 04:51:24,740
Okay.

3557
04:51:24,740 --> 04:51:34,500
Thank you. Let's move on to item number 10. City Civic engagement award. This is a city council award

3558
04:51:34,500 --> 04:51:39,880
I forgot to make a note of who's leading us through this. Am I just leading us through this? Okay

3559
04:51:40,660 --> 04:51:48,480
And I think we had a motion five emotion. You have a motion. Let's do. I would like to make a motion to approve. Oh

3560
04:51:50,320 --> 04:51:59,120
Resolution 26-85C, naming Rebecca Kidel, our 2026 award recipient for the SanDee City Council

3561
04:51:59,120 --> 04:52:00,760
at Civic Engagement Award.

3562
04:52:02,180 --> 04:52:05,580
All right, we have a motion and the second, any discussion on the motion?

3563
04:52:10,020 --> 04:52:14,260
We should, technically, we should take public comments to ask the voting item.

3564
04:52:14,400 --> 04:52:15,100
We're about to vote.

3565
04:52:16,240 --> 04:52:21,280
Let's do that really quickly, looking to the chambers, if there's anyone who would like to comment

3566
04:52:21,280 --> 04:52:23,620
on this item, it is a voting item.

3567
04:52:26,380 --> 04:52:28,060
I do not see anyone, Mr. Prado,

3568
04:52:28,180 --> 04:52:29,280
feel check online, please.

3569
04:52:30,460 --> 04:52:32,660
If you're joining us virtually, you'd like to comment

3570
04:52:34,200 --> 04:52:37,700
on the, this is the awardee.

3571
04:52:38,000 --> 04:52:40,100
Go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen now

3572
04:52:40,100 --> 04:52:42,320
and I'll call your name and I apologize, guys.

3573
04:52:43,300 --> 04:52:45,340
I think I feel like I'm fading and can't speak

3574
04:52:45,340 --> 04:52:46,400
correctly right now.

3575
04:52:46,540 --> 04:52:49,200
That's what I'm feeling to, we're in that same vote.

3576
04:52:56,980 --> 04:52:58,160
I'm not saying any hands raised, Madam Chair.

3577
04:52:58,500 --> 04:52:59,280
Thank you.

3578
04:52:59,280 --> 04:53:05,200
I'll close public comment on this item, bring it back to the council, any further deliberation.

3579
04:53:06,340 --> 04:53:10,160
We have a motion and a second, Ms. Edward, if we'll do a roll call vote, please.

3580
04:53:13,910 --> 04:53:14,910
Thank you, Madam Chair.

3581
04:53:15,470 --> 04:53:16,370
Ms. Christianson?

3582
04:53:18,390 --> 04:53:18,970
Ms. Nichol.

3583
04:53:19,350 --> 04:53:19,590
Yes.

3584
04:53:20,550 --> 04:53:21,470
Ms. Houseman?

3585
04:53:21,570 --> 04:53:21,930
Yes.

3586
04:53:22,650 --> 04:53:23,390
Ms. Sharky?

3587
04:53:25,010 --> 04:53:25,970
Ms. Tassouza?

3588
04:53:28,110 --> 04:53:28,710
Ms. Trav.

3589
04:53:29,010 --> 04:53:29,490
Yes.

3590
04:53:31,070 --> 04:53:34,490
My understanding is, Mr. DeKaiser has locked off.

3591
04:53:36,390 --> 04:53:38,430
So that motion carries six to zero.

3592
04:53:39,570 --> 04:53:40,710
Thank you, Ms. Edwards.

3593
04:53:41,290 --> 04:53:41,730
Madam Chair.

3594
04:53:41,930 --> 04:53:42,210
Please.

3595
04:53:42,610 --> 04:53:44,870
May I just say thank you to the council.

3596
04:53:45,130 --> 04:53:45,710
That's very kind.

3597
04:53:45,870 --> 04:53:47,210
Thank you.

3598
04:53:47,490 --> 04:53:48,990
Council member Christianson for the nomination.

3599
04:53:50,070 --> 04:53:52,470
You all know Rebecca, she'll be mortified.

3600
04:53:52,890 --> 04:53:54,530
She has to be.

3601
04:53:55,190 --> 04:53:56,770
Yes, she'll be mortified.

3602
04:53:56,990 --> 04:54:00,230
But as super kind of you to recognize the kind of people

3603
04:54:00,230 --> 04:54:04,030
that aren't really blow hearts like I am when we do certain things.

3604
04:54:04,290 --> 04:54:06,610
And so it's a kind of you to recognize her.

3605
04:54:06,930 --> 04:54:08,510
We appreciate her.

3606
04:54:08,970 --> 04:54:11,730
OK, which brings us to item number 11.

3607
04:54:12,490 --> 04:54:14,750
Before we do that item, because we

3608
04:54:14,750 --> 04:54:17,570
will want to adjourn from the close session,

3609
04:54:17,910 --> 04:54:22,090
I'll just do a quick opportunity for what

3610
04:54:22,090 --> 04:54:23,550
do we call them standing reports?

3611
04:54:25,670 --> 04:54:27,030
I'm going to be extremely fast.

3612
04:54:27,170 --> 04:54:28,450
We're canceled next Tuesday.

3613
04:54:29,490 --> 04:54:36,530
And then if you have a Mac, IT has to touch your device in order to install the new

3614
04:54:36,530 --> 04:54:38,550
dual-authentication software.

3615
04:54:39,470 --> 04:54:43,110
And so if you have your Mac with you today and you want to just leave it with me tonight,

3616
04:54:43,290 --> 04:54:44,610
we'll get it taken care of tomorrow.

3617
04:54:44,790 --> 04:54:51,510
If that's not possible, reach out to IT instead of a time to meet with them to have them

3618
04:54:51,510 --> 04:54:52,590
and install it on your device.

3619
04:54:52,950 --> 04:54:53,990
It's pretty quick and pretty much.

3620
04:54:54,670 --> 04:54:58,430
Yeah, iPads don't have to be updated so you're good.

3621
04:54:58,430 --> 04:54:59,950
Okay.

3622
04:55:00,000 --> 04:55:02,460
Thank you. Council members?

3623
04:55:04,600 --> 04:55:05,020
Yes, may.

3624
04:55:05,260 --> 04:55:06,060
Next week.

3625
04:55:06,400 --> 04:55:07,180
Thank you.

3626
04:55:07,400 --> 04:55:12,800
I'll go really fast, because a couple of these I've been holding anyway. Convention facilities advisory board

3627
04:55:12,800 --> 04:55:18,160
met, and you guys, there is some good news that there's some seriousness about expanding

3628
04:55:18,160 --> 04:55:21,560
the Expo Center by 25,000 square feet.

3629
04:55:22,120 --> 04:55:26,000
So, yeah, that would be a great thing. We just need to figure out how to pay for it.

3630
04:55:26,600 --> 04:55:31,900
So, anyway, LPC meeting, that was a lot of prediction about what's coming and the new

3631
04:55:31,900 --> 04:55:37,840
the next legislative session. I'll just run down the list. The one thing we do know is based on

3632
04:55:37,840 --> 04:55:45,400
election results in the primaries. We know we will have at least 20% new legislators in our state

3633
04:55:45,400 --> 04:55:54,140
legislature this coming year. So that's a big change. We know legislators are considering bringing

3634
04:55:54,140 --> 04:55:56,920
bills on property taxes.

3635
04:55:59,480 --> 04:56:05,420
Once again, the starter homes, the governor has admitted that

3636
04:56:05,420 --> 04:56:11,480
our efforts so far in building homes have not moved the needle on housing prices, but

3637
04:56:11,480 --> 04:56:17,200
he still committed to it, and he still wants to build 35,000 starter homes, which are single

3638
04:56:17,200 --> 04:56:24,080
family detached small homes and small lots wants to build 35,000 of them by 2028.

3639
04:56:25,920 --> 04:56:30,540
There will be bills about AI use, there will be bills about data center, there will be bills

3640
04:56:30,540 --> 04:56:39,820
about HOA's, impact fees, flock cameras, all kinds of land use issues around data centers

3641
04:56:39,820 --> 04:56:50,760
And maybe even a proposal to allow small lots in all residential zones, which would kind of make zoning in material.

3642
04:56:51,440 --> 04:57:00,820
Anyway, so we're early before any Bill files are even open. There's a long way to go, but those are the discussions so far. Thank you.

3643
04:57:00,820 --> 04:57:07,140
Okay, just one thing, and I'm going to read it, just I just am.

3644
04:57:07,760 --> 04:57:12,720
We had a tragic incident in Sandy this weekend, a five-year-old child who's killed, and

3645
04:57:12,720 --> 04:57:18,800
the impact has been deeply felt throughout the neighborhood, the school, and our city,

3646
04:57:19,260 --> 04:57:23,560
and it's especially close to home for me, not only did it happen in Sandy and District 1,

3647
04:57:23,680 --> 04:57:26,940
but it involved us to students from where I work.

3648
04:57:26,940 --> 04:57:33,540
My deepest condolences go out to the child's family and everyone who has been affected by this heartbreaking loss.

3649
04:57:34,220 --> 04:57:41,200
My own heart is broken, especially as I watch our youngest students trying to make sense of what's happened in school this week.

3650
04:57:42,040 --> 04:57:48,420
I'm also very grateful for the teacher's staff and parents in the community who helped our young students process this tragedy.

3651
04:57:48,420 --> 04:57:58,540
And I'm also very grateful to both our fire and police departments who responded to this emergency and have cared for our community during such an incredibly difficult situation.

3652
04:57:59,080 --> 04:58:06,240
Tragedies like this are not easy and they leave a lasting imprint in our collective community and you all are very appreciated.

3653
04:58:10,240 --> 04:58:13,700
Very tender. Thank you. I don't have anything for tonight.

3654
04:58:15,680 --> 04:58:16,500
Mr. Susan?

3655
04:58:16,500 --> 04:58:19,980
Just really quick, I had a request of the administration.

3656
04:58:21,340 --> 04:58:26,800
I had asked for an update on the Arbor Building a couple of weeks ago, and I don't think

3657
04:58:26,800 --> 04:58:27,540
that we've heard back.

3658
04:58:27,720 --> 04:58:30,700
So I just, this is kind of like a friendly reminder to get back.

3659
04:58:31,060 --> 04:58:34,220
Is that something that you guys will be able to report on?

3660
04:58:34,620 --> 04:58:41,760
And specifically what I'm looking for is the occupancy and vacancy, which departments

3661
04:58:41,760 --> 04:58:46,280
have been approved for moving over there and their status and expected data to move.

3662
04:58:46,840 --> 04:58:53,140
I think it's important that we have information on that more quickly, more quickly as it's

3663
04:58:53,140 --> 04:58:55,380
been a lot of time since we've had that conversation.

3664
04:58:55,680 --> 04:58:58,780
And I am so sorry that I can't construct a coherent sentence right now.

3665
04:58:59,560 --> 04:59:05,080
But my other thought was, you know, specifically with economic development or the RDA because

3666
04:59:05,080 --> 04:59:11,280
I was under the impression that then moving over there was somewhat required as a requirement

3667
04:59:11,280 --> 04:59:17,500
of their contribution to the purchase, so is that something that Edmund will be able to present

3668
04:59:17,500 --> 04:59:18,180
on soon?

3669
04:59:18,820 --> 04:59:24,920
Yeah, and I can provide some updates to you offline or in tonight, we will start some

3670
04:59:24,920 --> 04:59:26,360
of those discussions as well.

3671
04:59:26,660 --> 04:59:31,100
Okay, I really would like it to be in a meeting where we can all receive the information

3672
04:59:31,100 --> 04:59:31,900
and ask questions.

3673
04:59:32,780 --> 04:59:33,140
Sure.

3674
04:59:33,380 --> 04:59:33,700
Thank you.

3675
04:59:34,300 --> 04:59:35,180
Thank you.

3676
04:59:38,380 --> 04:59:42,880
Madam Chair, the mayor has asked me in her absence if I would read a statement on her behalf,

3677
04:59:42,880 --> 04:59:48,680
May I? Thank you. I want to briefly report on my decision regarding

3678
04:59:48,680 --> 04:59:55,120
Calaway, Gulf, and the city's River Oaks Gulf course. After concerns were brought to my

3679
04:59:55,120 --> 04:59:59,820
attention by residents, city employees, and members of our Gulf course staff.

3680
05:00:00,000 --> 05:00:06,660
I spent several days reviewing Calloway's advertising campaign and the company's response to the controversy.

3681
05:00:07,520 --> 05:00:14,220
After that review, and after notifying the city council, I directed River Oaks to pull Calloway inventory.

3682
05:00:15,160 --> 05:00:19,740
The reason comes back to our first obligation as a city, public safety.

3683
05:00:20,880 --> 05:00:28,120
Calloway approved and ran an advertisement that used an active violence against a woman, as the hook to sell a golf club.

3684
05:00:28,120 --> 05:00:35,240
It demonstrated that a serious, it demonstrated a serious lack of judgment, compounding that was

3685
05:00:35,240 --> 05:00:40,440
the company's initial failure to recognize its role and take meaningful accountability.

3686
05:00:41,400 --> 05:00:42,640
That matters in Sandy.

3687
05:00:43,240 --> 05:00:47,860
Domestic violence is a serious and persistent public safety issue.

3688
05:00:48,720 --> 05:00:55,060
We invest public resources in police officers, detectives, prosecutors, and victim advocates

3689
05:00:55,060 --> 05:00:56,720
who respond to violence.

3690
05:00:56,720 --> 05:01:04,780
prosecute offenders and support victims. River Oaks is also a public facility owned by Sandy

3691
05:01:04,780 --> 05:01:12,160
City. I could not reconcile that public safety mission with spending public dollars to sell

3692
05:01:12,160 --> 05:01:18,420
and promote the products of a company using violence against women as entertaining in its

3693
05:01:18,420 --> 05:01:25,480
advertising. We have removed the inventory and as Calaway to refund the city's cost. We have

3694
05:01:25,480 --> 05:01:29,540
from the company and I'm optimistic they will cooperate with that request.

3695
05:01:30,800 --> 05:01:33,780
Going forward, I'm not looking for a period of outcome.

3696
05:01:34,480 --> 05:01:38,580
I'm looking for accountability, a recognition of the harm caused,

3697
05:01:38,980 --> 05:01:42,720
meaningful corporate changes to ensure this kind of judgment failure

3698
05:01:42,720 --> 05:01:44,700
does not happen again.

3699
05:01:45,180 --> 05:01:50,480
And proactive steps to rebuild trust with customers and partners like Sandy City.

3700
05:01:50,480 --> 05:01:56,280
There should be a path forward when a company takes responsibility and demonstrates meaningful

3701
05:01:56,280 --> 05:01:56,940
change.

3702
05:01:57,500 --> 05:01:59,540
I hope Calaway chooses that path.

3703
05:02:00,260 --> 05:02:05,820
Our first obligation is public safety, and that extends to the culture we create in our

3704
05:02:05,820 --> 05:02:06,860
public spaces.

3705
05:02:07,460 --> 05:02:14,060
River Oaks should be a safe, welcoming place for everyone, every gender, every age, and every

3706
05:02:14,060 --> 05:02:14,880
level of play.

3707
05:02:15,460 --> 05:02:18,940
That is the standard I applied, and I stand behind that decision.

3708
05:02:18,940 --> 05:02:21,120
Thank you.

3709
05:02:23,710 --> 05:02:24,830
And I just have a few items.

3710
05:02:25,530 --> 05:02:33,330
I want to recognize your email, chairhouseman, requesting some information about the merchandise

3711
05:02:33,330 --> 05:02:34,390
at the golf course.

3712
05:02:34,750 --> 05:02:35,550
I have that information.

3713
05:02:35,750 --> 05:02:37,330
I just got it late this afternoon.

3714
05:02:38,730 --> 05:02:43,870
We have about $18,000 worth of Calaway branded merchandise that the city is purchased.

3715
05:02:44,430 --> 05:02:47,490
There's 1,000 and 11 items.

3716
05:02:47,930 --> 05:02:49,750
The majority of those are golf balls.

3717
05:02:49,750 --> 05:02:55,950
But there are a few clubs and clothing items and golf clubs, but we have a full inventory.

3718
05:02:56,730 --> 05:03:02,050
We are working with Caloay to determine what the next steps are on that.

3719
05:03:02,330 --> 05:03:03,810
So we'll keep you apprised on that.

3720
05:03:04,010 --> 05:03:06,030
But I can also send you this via email.

3721
05:03:07,570 --> 05:03:07,730
Yeah.

3722
05:03:08,170 --> 05:03:14,710
And then just two other things, I wanted to thank the council members for joining us in chief

3723
05:03:14,710 --> 05:03:16,050
and I were swearing again.

3724
05:03:16,370 --> 05:03:19,170
It was a great event, really well-attended.

3725
05:03:19,770 --> 05:03:22,150
It was great for his family and the Chief Colby

3726
05:03:22,150 --> 05:03:25,870
and personally said, thank you, even though I really

3727
05:03:25,870 --> 05:03:27,350
had nothing to do with the planning of it,

3728
05:03:28,950 --> 05:03:30,150
but it meant a lot to him and his family.

3729
05:03:30,470 --> 05:03:32,870
And so it meant a lot to us that the council

3730
05:03:32,870 --> 05:03:34,370
was well represented there too as well.

3731
05:03:34,630 --> 05:03:35,410
Thank you.

3732
05:03:35,470 --> 05:03:38,070
And then the last thing, I just, even though they're not here,

3733
05:03:38,150 --> 05:03:39,290
hopefully they're at home in bed.

3734
05:03:40,810 --> 05:03:44,170
But thank you to our park staff, our public work staff,

3735
05:03:44,170 --> 05:03:49,970
to use some fire in dealing with the monsoon flooding that has come, that may not be over.

3736
05:03:50,510 --> 05:03:55,470
There's been a lot of work behind the scenes trying to do our best to keep our residents,

3737
05:03:55,730 --> 05:04:00,690
our neighborhoods, our businesses, safe, dry. And I just wanted to recognize them for all

3738
05:04:00,690 --> 05:04:07,410
their effort. That's it. Thank you. Thank you. Just reminder, we do have a close session,

3739
05:04:08,050 --> 05:04:11,450
and so we need a motion to go into closed session, then we will adjourn from,

3740
05:04:12,070 --> 05:04:17,790
Oh, sorry, parts of micro-no-cum, come, I'm just trying to move this moment.

3741
05:04:18,190 --> 05:04:22,290
We want to give you some energy, you go into your close session, so we'll give you some fun

3742
05:04:22,290 --> 05:04:25,150
here about the construction update at the Sandy Recreation Center.

3743
05:04:25,890 --> 05:04:27,730
So this is as of last Friday.

3744
05:04:29,550 --> 05:04:32,450
This is the west side of the building.

3745
05:04:32,690 --> 05:04:37,170
You can see it's coming together, nice to the brick, it's there, there's framing it for

3746
05:04:37,170 --> 05:04:43,770
windows being put in, as well as the middle panel installation. That's the white part that

3747
05:04:43,770 --> 05:04:48,150
you see there. That installation goes up the middle paneling. We'll go on top of that.

3748
05:04:48,230 --> 05:04:54,410
Right where that space is, we'll be the big Sandy name. And then in that brick open space,

3749
05:04:54,610 --> 05:04:59,850
there will be the Sandy Recreation Center logo. We'll just zoom in a little bit here.

3750
05:05:00,000 --> 05:05:07,300
This is some of that framing on the windows, so on that bigger picture, and then also, curb and gutters have been poured around the building.

3751
05:05:07,900 --> 05:05:09,800
We're starting to see a lot of that come together.

3752
05:05:12,540 --> 05:05:15,960
We're walking around the buildings, so this is on the south side.

3753
05:05:16,680 --> 05:05:20,280
Again, they're doing some of that insulation. You can see the brick is done.

3754
05:05:20,840 --> 05:05:27,240
And this is where we've got the side of the pool, so this is where the locker rooms and the

3755
05:05:27,240 --> 05:05:30,240
legguard Thursday room will be.

3756
05:05:30,680 --> 05:05:34,080
We've walked down a little bit further still on that same side, you can see how the glass

3757
05:05:34,080 --> 05:05:40,000
is coming together nicely on the south side there, only one little glass is missing according

3758
05:05:40,000 --> 05:05:43,640
to this picture I'm sure it's in by now, but then some more of that insulation is being

3759
05:05:45,800 --> 05:05:52,640
So this is on the east side, so you see all the framing for the windows, a lot of those windows are actually in their hard to tell.

3760
05:05:52,960 --> 05:05:56,680
You got to be careful if you're going to put your hand through a window or through a space.

3761
05:05:58,320 --> 05:06:03,620
But this is, and then more of the installation, if we can zoom in on this side as we walk around the corner.

3762
05:06:03,920 --> 05:06:07,780
This is the maintenance yard, you can see all the equipment it takes to operate this building.

3763
05:06:07,780 --> 05:06:12,240
But then above that, you can see all those windows are in.

3764
05:06:12,800 --> 05:06:15,820
And then if we look on the north side,

3765
05:06:16,120 --> 05:06:19,040
then we can see that the brick and the insulation is all there.

3766
05:06:19,260 --> 05:06:20,700
Plus the windows are in.

3767
05:06:21,420 --> 05:06:24,300
Will be exciting as I continue to give these updates

3768
05:06:24,300 --> 05:06:26,780
as we'll start showing more indoor pictures

3769
05:06:26,780 --> 05:06:28,940
because we're getting really close on the outdoor.

3770
05:06:30,460 --> 05:06:32,740
So as we move indoors, this is the upstairs.

3771
05:06:32,960 --> 05:06:35,600
This is a bathroom. You can see they've already put tile

3772
05:06:36,580 --> 05:06:41,100
throughout the walls and on the floor they've also now moved into the tile

3773
05:06:41,100 --> 05:06:45,980
downstairs in the locker rooms. I don't know the picture of that just yet. This is

3774
05:06:45,980 --> 05:06:49,620
this picture of the sound panels on the second floor. You can see those

3775
05:06:49,620 --> 05:06:55,480
vault been placed in and the paint continues throughout the entire building. I think

3776
05:06:55,480 --> 05:06:59,960
that's it. But also I've reached out to it and I know you've reached out to each of

3777
05:06:59,960 --> 05:07:03,460
you. We're ready to have you come back and see the inside. They'll be really

3778
05:07:03,460 --> 05:07:05,340
on the walk-in through and give you a tour.

3779
05:07:05,920 --> 05:07:07,120
So we'll get that all set up.

3780
05:07:08,880 --> 05:07:10,140
Thank you for that update.

3781
05:07:11,620 --> 05:07:13,600
All right, we'll take a motion.

3782
05:07:14,600 --> 05:07:19,340
Motion to go to close session for whatever is listed

3783
05:07:19,340 --> 05:07:21,220
and then close the meeting at the end.

3784
05:07:21,740 --> 05:07:24,560
discussion of purchase exchange or lease of real property.

3785
05:07:27,380 --> 05:07:31,280
We have a motion and a second.

3786
05:07:31,860 --> 05:07:34,640
Alice, the stroud, seconded.

3787
05:07:35,720 --> 05:07:38,920
And this is a roll call vote, correct?

3788
05:07:39,840 --> 05:07:39,860
Ms. Edwards.

3789
05:07:40,820 --> 05:07:42,260
Ms. Christian Sen.

3790
05:07:42,360 --> 05:07:42,920
Yes.

3791
05:07:43,980 --> 05:07:45,500
Ms. Strapp.

3792
05:07:45,800 --> 05:07:46,040
Yes.

3793
05:07:47,120 --> 05:07:47,640
Ms. Nicole?

3794
05:07:49,180 --> 05:07:50,040
Ms. Houseman?

3795
05:07:51,280 --> 05:07:51,940
Ms. Sharkey?

3796
05:07:52,440 --> 05:07:52,560
Yes.

3797
05:07:53,160 --> 05:07:54,160
Ms. Disuse set?

3798
05:07:54,420 --> 05:07:54,480
Yes.

3799
05:07:55,140 --> 05:07:57,400
Madam Chair, that motion carried six to zero.

3800
05:07:57,860 --> 05:07:58,480
Thank you.

3801
05:07:59,080 --> 05:08:00,320
And who will be joining us?

3802
05:08:01,020 --> 05:08:02,820
Location is here at City Hall

3803
05:08:02,820 --> 05:08:06,480
And from our office, we'll have Mr. Kail join in myself.

3804
05:08:06,880 --> 05:08:14,160
Mark myself, Ryan Meekham, Kyla Brower, and Dan Nelson, and Brian Kelly.

3805
05:08:15,200 --> 05:08:16,140
And Lynn Larson.

3806
05:08:16,600 --> 05:08:17,420
Bring in a party.

3807
05:08:17,600 --> 05:08:18,080
Okay.

3808
05:08:18,660 --> 05:08:19,480
Did you bring the food?

3809
05:08:20,860 --> 05:08:21,500
No, I did not.

3810
05:08:23,540 --> 05:08:24,720
All right. Thank you, everyone.

3811
05:08:25,080 --> 05:08:25,880
Have a good evening.