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Reporting

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in

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progress.

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Madam Chair, we're ready whenever you're ready.

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Thank you. We will go ahead and begin then. Welcome, everyone. We are grateful to have you with us for the

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just earlier for our award-night.

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Thank you for continuing to celebrate and be here with us tonight.

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We will start our meeting the way we always do with a prayer and a pledge.

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We'd like to invite Chris McHanless, a no-al bitman committee member and former city council member

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to offer this evening's prayer.

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Thank you.

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Good evening.

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Our kind of integration is father and him, and as we gather here tonight as citizens and

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all our good officials, we thank thee for the opportunity to live in this great

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community, it's a great state and nation. We thank thee for the blessings that I was

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bestowed upon all of us. We ask thee this evening, Father, for a blessing upon all of

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our city council people this evening, all of our elected officials, the administration,

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those who serve in uniform and serve as sworn officers of our community that they may

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health, safe and dinarms. As we know, they place their trust in the everyday and ask

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to keep them safe. Keep them vigilant and their desires to serve us as the citizens of

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this community with those decisions which will continue to build upon this great community

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and serve our nation. We thank the Father for all of those citizens who have served diligently

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and volunteering their efforts, and especially this evening, Father, we ask thee for a special blessing upon Steve Fairbanks, as he receives his award and Miss Cadale, as well.

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We ask thee, Father, for those decisions to be made without biased,

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without challenges to the integrity of the system at all times in all ways.

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We say these things, Father, and the beloved name of thy son, Jesus Christ, amen.

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Thank you, Mr. McCannless.

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Now we'd like to invite Mr. Ben Christianson,

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who will lead us in the pledge.

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Please follow me, I'm residing in the pledge.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America

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and to the Republic for which it stands,

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foundation under God in the visible, in the 13th and 13th of tomorrow.

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Thank you so much for the prayer and Ben,

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Thank you for the pledge and for all of you joining your voices together with us.

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We'll move on with quick introductions and then we'll jump into this evening's meeting.

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So if we could start with our council office over here, start with introductions.

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Thank you.

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Apologies Madam Chair.

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My name is Dustin Fraudon.

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I'm with the City Council Office.

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We've a couple other council staff members in the back of the room, Justin Sornson and Matt Perry.

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Hello, my name is Tracy and Council for the Council.

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Chris Edwards with the Council Office.

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Chris Nickle of District 3.

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Cindy Sharkey at large.

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Brooke Christensen District 1.

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Marcy Houseman District 4.

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Allison Straud District 2.

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Erin DeKaiser at large.

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Mayor Monica Zaltansky.

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And we excuse Ms. Councilwoman Dissources and unable to join us.

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She's an additional at large.

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So tonight we begin with a very special recognition and presentation.

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As part of our city council annual awards program, we will be presenting two awards this evening

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honoring the service and dedication of two individuals from our community.

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We will be introducing or announcing the Sandy City Council civic engagement award as well as the

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Noel Bateman Lifetime Service Award.

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The Sandy City Council was proud to honor Rebecca Cadel as the second recipient of the Sandy City Council Civic Engagement Award.

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This award was established to honor individuals whose voluntary service.

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Civic involvement, and quiet leadership have made a meaningful and lasting impact on the Sandy community.

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The inspiration for this award came during a special recognition that we held last year in honor of long-time resident Don Gerty,

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whose exemplary life of service and civic commitment perfectly embodies the values of this award and his service was the inspiration

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for the establishment of the Sandy City Council Civic Engagement Award.

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Civic Engagement can take many forms.

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It can mean serving on a city committee.

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It can mean volunteering at a school.

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It can mean helping the neighbor.

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It can mean creating a program when you see a need.

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It can mean preserving the history of our community

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or helping plan for its future.

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And sometimes it means doing all of those things.

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Which brings us to Rebecca.

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For our first presentation, we'll be back at Cadel and the City Council.

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Please join us in front of the Dias.

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I am honored to introduce Rebecca Cadel.

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Rebecca is a lifelong Sandy resident, someone who truly embodies the spirit of civic engagement.

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Rebecca's family has been part of Sandy for five generations, and she has spent her life

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giving back to the community that shaped her.

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Her service has touched Sandy's school, students, families, historic resources,

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community organizations. She has been an educator, PTA president, and everything else.

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At multiple schools, community council chair at multiple schools, and has served on numerous

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city committees, including the historic committee and the CDGB committee. Rebecca has created programs,

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brought volunteers together, supported students,

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preserved community history, and quietly helped

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families and individuals in need.

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One example that really captures Rebecca, who Rebecca is,

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came during her time at Sandi Elementary.

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She was recognized that some of the students were struggling

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with reading and needed additional support.

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Rather than simply identifying the problem,

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she created the Reach Gather Program,

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recruiting and coordinating more than two dozen volunteers

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to work one-on-one with students.

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She personally invested hundreds of hours

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to make sure the program succeeded,

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giving children not only reading support, but confidence and encouragement.

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Even with her many, many amazing acts of service to our community,

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what stands out the most about Rebecca is that she has never served for recognition.

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She sees a need, steps forward, brings people together and works to make things better.

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Rebecca represents the very best of Sandy, compassionate, thoughtful, humble and deeply committed to our community.

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Rebecca, we are honored to present you with the 2026 Sandy City Civic Engagement Award.

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Good afternoon, are you joining us?

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Thank you.

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I'm a Cadel family for a picture with her back in.

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We'll show you which is 18 rows.

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And two, three.

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Yep, kiss them all.

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Got my voice.

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Members of the Council and Mayor distinguished department heads and members here of the community. We are here, members of we are the chair and vice chair of the Noel Bateman award committee. It is our pleasure to work on presenting that award here this evening.

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The 2,026-Nolbeteman Lifetime Service Award will be presented to Steve Fairbanks if you join me in a round of applause for Steve.

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This is Steve.

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Come on up.

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We've got to brag about it.

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Since 1992, since

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1992, Steve Fairbanks has served in our community in countless ways.

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As a member of the Sadie City Council, a civic leader, a volunteer and advocate, a mentor, a neighbor and a friend.

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And his service is reached across, sadly, and beyond, touching organizations,

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all those

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are projected.

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Maybe I'll just come up.

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Is it okay for you to just stay?

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Steve has served the City Council, but his commitment did not end when his time of being elected

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official did it.

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He's continued to give his time, his talents, his leadership, and compassion whenever it's

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needed to our city.

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What stands out the most is not simply the number of organizations where Steve is served, but the consistency.

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For more than 34 years, he has continued to find ways to make our community better.

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Steve's legacy is one of leadership, service, and genuine care for his community.

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Tonight, we are honored to recognize that that remarkable legacy.

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Before we present the war to see him, we invite you to hear from Steve and his own words in a video that we prepare it.

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So we'll sit down for a minute. We'll come back after the video.

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I'm not that important.

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But volunteering being involved is important.

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This is the place we live.

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We had lots of neighbors involved in various aspects of the city and it made the city great.

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And that tells cities become great as by people being involved.

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I guess I first started getting involved in the city at 1992 when I opened my real estate office here.

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I got approached by the chamber of commerce and they started listening to follow committees I could serve on and one of them was the economic development committee.

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That gave me the chance to meet people like Tekken Padded Dare and Jan Van Kampen and a number of others.

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Next thing I know I was asked to settle on the board of directors, so that was pretty much the beginning of it.

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So one thing just sort of led to another.

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I was a city councilman for 16 years.

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When I ran for office, my slogan, which was device by my son, was both for a man without a plan.

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But I didn't have anything particular that I was upset about, that I wanted to fix.

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City was great. I loved City, but I'd been involved in different things over the years, and I just got

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why it was one more committee to serve on. So I served and I think that's important. The elected officials

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know their citizens, that what we do in this community affects us as well as everybody else. And I enjoyed

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got sent to community. This fun meet with people and just discussing their concerns and seeing

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what we could do about them if they were rational, which they weren't always. So that was just

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fun to be involved. But it's nice to be recognized for the effort that you made. I was,

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I don't know whether it was because I was delumited or what, but I got involved in a lot of things

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through my time in the city. I got to chance to roam shoulders with a lot of good people and they influenced me for good.

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And I hope maybe somehow I influenced someone else for good. It's all we can do.

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Okay Steve, come on up.

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Ladies and gentlemen, I'm presenting the Null Bateman Lifetime Service Award to Steve Fairbanks for 2026. Congratulations.

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So if the members of the council could go down for a picture, that's when

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the authority of the person to receive this award.

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I'll be able to.

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We've got the council coming.

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Get a picture of Mayor, then we'll have you come down.

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Okay.

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So that's the way it goes really good.

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Good folks.

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Okay.

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We're going to.

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We're going to.

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We're going to try.

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Yeah, but the Fairbanks family could go up and then Council and Mayor please stay there as

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well

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Okay, we've asked Mr. Fairbanks to give some brief comments and then after which the Council will take back over the meeting

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It's an honor to be recognized

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When I had the opportunity to serve with the League of Cities of Towns, I would often

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get asked as I at our annual conferences by Councilpeople and Mayor of some different communities,

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what they could do in their community to make them as good as Sandy City.

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I always told them they had no hope because in order to be like Sandy City you had to

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have our citizens. It's an honor to serve you and I appreciate this award. Thank you.

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Thank you to everyone. So tonight we've had the wonderful privilege of recognizing two remarkable Sandy residents who services made a lasting difference in our community.

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Thank you Rebecca Cadel and Steve Fairbanks and family. We all know that there's always our loved ones standing behind us when we serve. So this appreciation goes that to all of you as well.

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We appreciate the opportunity to honor both of you and thank you for all that you've done to serve in our community in such dedicated ways.

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Thank you for making Sandy a wonderful place to be.

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And we're now going to move on and I know you have other things you probably would rather be doing than our conversation here.

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So one more round of applause for tonight's award recipients.

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Thank you.

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Madam Chair.

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Yes, please.

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So we're a little earlier than we suspected the planning commission isn't going to join us till 6pm, so if you'd like

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We could go through the consent calendar and then we could also take the

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Hagen Road item, which is item number five if you'd if you'd like okay, I'll turn it away

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You could recess, but I mean, that's a quite a long recess. I see let's go ahead and do consent calendar

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I like that

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Recommendation to try to get us up to that six o'clock

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That is sure I'm making motion to approve the consent calendar.

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Second.

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We have a motion on the second.

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This can just be a voice vote correct.

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So all in favor say aye.

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Any opposed?

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No.

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Okay.

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I see that that passes.

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And I do like the recommendation to move on to item number five this evening.

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We will return to the top of our agenda in order to make sure we have plenty of time for those items.

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So, this is community development, we are hearing the Hagen Road Reson, Mr. Warner.

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Good evening, Council.

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Thank you, Chair.

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I could be with you, all of you, for the Public My Names Jake Warner,

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Long Reigns Planning Manager for Sandy City.

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As I was mentioned, this item is an application presented by Matthew Grant,

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And also representing Barry Evans and Lyle Warner,

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Request, and a zone change of property located at 1-156-2 south,

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1-156-3 south, and 1-158-6 south on Hagen Road.

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They are requesting to add the aid designation for farm animal rights,

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to there are 1-20 zone, so rezoning from our 1-20 to our 1-20 aim.

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Their properties total approximately 1.79 acres.

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This item was presented at the City Council on September 1st and has been brought back before

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you tonight for decision as a legislative item and this has gone to the Planning Commission

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with the statutory public or the required state required public hearing and they did

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forward a positive recommendation to you and with that the applicant is present and staff is

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available.

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Thank you. Council, do we have any questions? We know we've had heard this presentation.

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I am not seeing any questions. So then we will move forward with,

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we need to take it again,

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even though we did the, probably it always good practice for voting. Yes, this is a voting item.

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All right. So, and we're taking public comment on this item. This is not our general citizen comment.

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This is specifically on this Hagen road resound. So yes, thank you for that.

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I'll go ahead and oh, good for public comments.

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I have a number of blue cards from those who are here in Chambers the Safety and we're going

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the order that I've received them, and then we will move to our online.

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If you do wish to speak and you have not yet filled out of blue card, do do so.

231
00:24:15,650 --> 00:24:18,550
You can grab one in the back and present it to here to Mr. Frato.

232
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:24,910
I have one comment, but I believe this is for general citizen comment and this looks like

233
00:24:24,910 --> 00:24:26,250
it is for item 5.

234
00:24:26,250 --> 00:24:32,570
So we have Paula Dodas, and I'm sorry if I did not get it right.

235
00:24:33,590 --> 00:24:35,190
Feel free to correct me on the record.

236
00:24:38,220 --> 00:24:38,720
Do that.

237
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,580
I just emphasized the wrong syllable.

238
00:24:43,980 --> 00:24:49,760
I just, I know there's been some recommendations to move forward with this.

239
00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:54,980
I actually, well, if you put the map back up, I actually live in one of the houses that

240
00:24:54,980 --> 00:24:59,380
to one of the houses that want to, oh sorry.

241
00:25:00,180 --> 00:25:06,760
Okay. I actually back to one of the properties that they want to change to agricultural.

242
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:18,420
And I have lived in San Jose for about 13 years now. And until recently, I haven't noticed any farm animals.

243
00:25:19,220 --> 00:25:25,480
And now all of a sudden we have roosters, which I know are illegal. We have called several times.

244
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:34,640
And the person directly behind me keeps kind of playing games with it and sending it across the street, and then they'll go in, and they have a one-hagen road.

245
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:44,400
And then they'll bring it back, so I just feel like if you allow them to go forward with these sheep or lamb that Matthew Grant wants to have.

246
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:50,340
I just feel like they feel that they are above the law, and they don't have to follow the rules.

247
00:25:50,340 --> 00:25:54,680
They're not following the rules with the roosters. They have chickens which I know you can have chickens

248
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,120
I'm not a fan, but not saying that you can't

249
00:25:59,620 --> 00:26:05,100
So I just feel like I just really want everybody to think about it. These properties are not very large

250
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,560
We are all really close together and this is a city and that's why I moved here

251
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,460
I didn't move to a farm. I don't want to live on a farm

252
00:26:13,460 --> 00:26:16,040
I don't want to hear a rooster at 6.15 every morning

253
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:22,480
which I have video and I can show you pictures that happens every single morning in my backyard.

254
00:26:23,540 --> 00:26:29,660
So anyway, I just ask that y'all just kind of reconsider, look at the properties, look at the size of these properties.

255
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,480
This is not farm country. You talk has a lot of farm land.

256
00:26:35,740 --> 00:26:42,120
You know, go live in a farm and get chickens and lambs and cows and whatever else you want.

257
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:53,340
So anyway, I just ask that you just kind of reconsider or think about this development and we are in a city and that's kind of what where I want to live.

258
00:26:53,860 --> 00:26:55,420
So anyway, that's all I have to say.

259
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:56,840
But anyway, thank you.

260
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,020
Thank you very much.

261
00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:02,560
All right, next we have Debbie Judd.

262
00:27:17,590 --> 00:27:18,830
I'm Debbie Judd.

263
00:27:19,050 --> 00:27:20,450
I live next to the grass.

264
00:27:21,390 --> 00:27:28,810
When we built, I spoke before, I emailed each of the city council.

265
00:27:30,690 --> 00:27:32,690
When I spoke before, I haven't changed my mind.

266
00:27:32,990 --> 00:27:34,830
I am against rezoning for agriculture.

267
00:27:35,690 --> 00:27:40,750
When we came into Sandy's city, we were no longer Sandy County.

268
00:27:41,610 --> 00:27:45,630
And we were told at that time that we would not be county

269
00:27:45,630 --> 00:27:48,030
and not be agriculture, which was fine.

270
00:27:48,610 --> 00:27:50,050
We didn't plan to be.

271
00:27:50,650 --> 00:27:56,090
I maintained that I asked Mr. Sorenson.

272
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:59,550
He was going to get a map and for us to put it up

273
00:27:59,550 --> 00:28:03,410
of the neighbors behind our lots.

274
00:28:03,610 --> 00:28:05,510
Their lots are very small.

275
00:28:06,550 --> 00:28:10,770
And so when people on a long lot who don't have room

276
00:28:10,770 --> 00:28:13,970
for animals decide to get farm animals,

277
00:28:13,970 --> 00:28:16,990
because they put them at the very back of their property.

278
00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:24,150
So the people off of play a road and the circles, I mean those farm animals, the smells,

279
00:28:24,350 --> 00:28:32,670
the flies, they're right there, they're literally in their patios, you know, feed away, feed

280
00:28:32,670 --> 00:28:33,050
away.

281
00:28:33,050 --> 00:28:42,350
I think, half an acre is not enough property, not enough land to have farm animals.

282
00:28:42,510 --> 00:28:49,570
When you consider there are houses, when you consider there are detached garages, there

283
00:28:49,570 --> 00:28:58,050
are basketball courts, there are big patios, so where is the land for the animals?

284
00:28:58,890 --> 00:29:00,830
There is no land for the animals.

285
00:29:00,830 --> 00:29:11,130
It is very very small. I don't feel like I have property for farm animals. I don't and my yard is the same size.

286
00:29:11,670 --> 00:29:18,210
In fact, I travel and I would like to not be agriculture. I am in Sandy City.

287
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:28,000
And I don't think it's agriculture. I don't think it's consideration of large farm animals.

288
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:34,680
They're just not room, so I am really against it, I would really like you to consider

289
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,400
this space, this space.

290
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:44,140
As planners consider it's just cruelty-dammals to try to have, can you imagine two horses

291
00:29:44,140 --> 00:29:45,300
on that property?

292
00:29:46,020 --> 00:29:53,120
Two cows would be allowed, five sheep, there is just not room in a sandy city can't differentiate

293
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:59,960
between large farm animals and small farm animals, there's literally not room for that kind of

294
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:07,780
So, I would hope you would at least come look at the properties if you haven't already. You could see it on Google search.

295
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,780
But anyway, thank you for your time. Thank you for doing this meeting. Thanks.

296
00:30:14,620 --> 00:30:19,760
Thank you. Okay. Next for item number five. I have Matthew Grant.

297
00:30:26,090 --> 00:30:33,070
Thank you. Apologies and you heard from me last week that I just thought I'd take three minutes here and just summarise a couple of points.

298
00:30:33,930 --> 00:30:37,590
As the applicant proposal, I have covered in detail the reasons why our family and the

299
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:41,230
two families that have joined us in this application, believe that it should be approved

300
00:30:41,230 --> 00:30:45,690
in our meeting two weeks ago on its planning commission, who unanimously approved it.

301
00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:51,350
The final thought I'd like to share is that, to us, well, let me just quickly address

302
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:57,070
the prior comments, I agree, we shouldn't have roosters, the roosters she's referring to

303
00:30:57,070 --> 00:31:02,650
aren't ours or the Evans or the Warner's here part of the application that's a different house that's already his own day so

304
00:31:04,830 --> 00:31:05,710
But on

305
00:31:05,710 --> 00:31:11,070
For us this application is not about whether our kids should be able to continue raising these lamps for a few more months

306
00:31:11,070 --> 00:31:15,630
That is an important part of the application and that's what kind of kickstarted this process to be clear

307
00:31:16,430 --> 00:31:18,150
But I just want to

308
00:31:18,150 --> 00:31:22,110
I guess step back to the big picture that this is an application for three properties not just ours

309
00:31:22,570 --> 00:31:23,450
to have

310
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:26,330
to have the aid designation and

311
00:31:26,330 --> 00:31:32,410
If this is approved and we're able to raise these lamps for another month or two until they're ready to be processed in the meat to be honest

312
00:31:32,410 --> 00:31:36,830
I don't you know current time. We don't think we will have lamps again. It's not in our plans

313
00:31:37,770 --> 00:31:44,170
But more broadly, you know, this is about whether these three properties are as the wonders and the ovens should have the same zoning rights

314
00:31:44,170 --> 00:31:49,510
Those are next door neighbors and every one of the other half acre lots on her street and in our broader neighborhood

315
00:31:50,010 --> 00:31:54,790
As we mentioned last meeting there are a lot of benefits to the A's on the designation beyond just animals

316
00:31:54,790 --> 00:31:57,410
including things like accessory structures, small green houses,

317
00:31:57,690 --> 00:32:01,670
et cetera, things that I think most people would agree.

318
00:32:01,930 --> 00:32:04,790
Getting increased property value in our helpful for these lots.

319
00:32:06,890 --> 00:32:08,190
You know, we don't currently have plans, too,

320
00:32:08,270 --> 00:32:10,550
but if we are the winners of the Evans at any point in the future,

321
00:32:10,750 --> 00:32:12,850
did decide we wanted to raise lands again,

322
00:32:13,070 --> 00:32:15,770
or raise rabbits, or build a small green house or any other thing

323
00:32:15,770 --> 00:32:19,010
that you can do under the Sandy City code if you haven't a lot.

324
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:22,190
We think we should have the freedom to do that just as our neighbors do.

325
00:32:22,190 --> 00:32:25,510
and just like thousands of other Sandy-Cated residents do who have a lot.

326
00:32:27,030 --> 00:32:31,370
I appreciate Debbie's point that she just made that there's unique situations with each property.

327
00:32:31,550 --> 00:32:36,830
And I said a few weeks ago, there may be certain a-lots of the thousands of currently exist,

328
00:32:37,150 --> 00:32:40,090
and ours as well, that may not be appropriate for horses, for example.

329
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:46,390
But we don't think that's the reason to deny us the same zoning rights that every other property in our neighborhood has.

330
00:32:47,490 --> 00:32:56,910
And it's core, what we're asking here is the ability to do on our property, what we would like to do as long as we're not violating the rights of our neighbors and as long as we're consistent with the other half-acre lots in our area.

331
00:32:58,910 --> 00:33:04,670
And you know, there have been a lot of comments around whether or not the lands are noisy or whether we might type that they have horses in the future.

332
00:33:05,310 --> 00:33:12,790
And I just wanted to, I guess, step back to that big picture of we're just requesting a simple zoning change consistent with the process in the Sandy City Code.

333
00:33:13,290 --> 00:33:19,110
Lastly, I'll just say I appreciate reasonable people who can have different opinions on things like this and have different viewpoints.

334
00:33:19,810 --> 00:33:22,450
And I know not everyone agrees with us, I think some people do agree with us.

335
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:26,450
I just want to thank you all, regardless of how you all decide to go tonight and what is decided.

336
00:33:26,790 --> 00:33:30,090
Thank you for taking the time to consider this and good faith.

337
00:33:33,260 --> 00:33:34,140
Thank you.

338
00:33:34,820 --> 00:33:37,560
Next for item number five, we have Adele Clark.

339
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:54,630
First of all, thank you for those of you that responded to my detailed email.

340
00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:59,650
Since I said that, you know, I've had to remove another wrath.

341
00:34:00,450 --> 00:34:02,650
So I'm not to forrest on my property.

342
00:34:03,530 --> 00:34:05,030
They're not coming from my property.

343
00:34:05,770 --> 00:34:07,550
They're coming from the grounds property.

344
00:34:07,870 --> 00:34:09,450
They're coming under the fence.

345
00:34:10,590 --> 00:34:12,010
They have gone into my greenhouse.

346
00:34:12,690 --> 00:34:15,190
They're eating my bird's seat, my wild bird's seat.

347
00:34:15,470 --> 00:34:16,610
I have holes in the bags.

348
00:34:17,830 --> 00:34:21,690
I have never heard an animal in my life.

349
00:34:21,690 --> 00:34:27,610
Until I had to get rid of these rats, I know how that has been used to ceased.

350
00:34:28,490 --> 00:34:35,550
I'm not going to be blamed for having rats or having problems with rats when the problems didn't come for me.

351
00:34:36,010 --> 00:34:45,170
Right over my fence line is a large wood container that has straw in it.

352
00:34:45,170 --> 00:34:51,510
Right next to that is where the chickens are. Right next to that is where the sheep are.

353
00:34:51,950 --> 00:34:53,350
Right by my green house.

354
00:34:54,130 --> 00:34:59,950
So talk about in the instance, besides the sound, besides the fact that now I have...

355
00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:11,220
I will not be removing any more rats. I will be contacting animal control because it literally makes me sick to walk into my greenhouse and see the dead rats.

356
00:35:12,940 --> 00:35:27,940
I know Mr. Grant thinks that it's just him that wants the rezoning because it pretty much is. I've had a long conversation with Barry Evans and he doesn't plan on having any farm animals. He doesn't plan on changing his backyard.

357
00:35:27,940 --> 00:35:34,480
he did have chickens and he has since gotten rid of the chickens. Mr. Warner is a very sweet

358
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:42,680
man. He is very old and very elderly and he doesn't plan on having farm animals. So everybody

359
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:55,660
around Mr. Grant that lives on the east side of the street none of us want to deal with rats

360
00:35:55,660 --> 00:36:01,080
and flies. I've had to put a fly, bring my verthing in my gizzie park in my

361
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:11,620
brainhouse to kill the flies. I've had to go in and put new landscaping underneath the

362
00:36:11,620 --> 00:36:17,420
fit the fence. I'm doing it myself. I'm 66 years old. I'm not a spy woman, but I

363
00:36:17,420 --> 00:36:23,780
will do it to keep the rats out on my yard. I've lived in Sandy City for 31

364
00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:32,200
years. Up until Mr. Grant worked in, I've not had any problems. I'm my property with rats

365
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:38,660
or extra flies or anything like that. I know that those of you that read the email, you know

366
00:36:38,660 --> 00:36:48,740
the detail that I provided. And so for me it's a hard no and I can only hope that the city council

367
00:36:48,740 --> 00:36:55,760
understands what I'm having to put up with on a daily basis. Thank you all.

368
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:04,360
Thank you. I do have a few more blue cards, but they are not checked for this item,

369
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,200
but I don't, I don't want to overlook them in case they are. If you've shared a blue card,

370
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,340
are you hoping to speak on this item?

371
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,220
To this item, do we have a blue card for you? Did you

372
00:37:18,220 --> 00:37:19,500
been a blue card?

373
00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:26,020
Okay. Oh, I see it. Yes. Yes. So you're wanting to make a comment on this item.

374
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:33,100
Yes. Come forward, please. And is it Tukitoa? Is that how I say your name? Yes.

375
00:37:33,180 --> 00:37:38,860
Yeah, long. I'm sorry. I'm not getting it right. Please tell me how to pronounce your name. That's

376
00:37:38,860 --> 00:37:46,380
important to me. Long ago. Long ago. Yes. Tukitoa. Tukitoa. I love that. Thank you. Please.

377
00:37:46,380 --> 00:37:54,280
You are living in everyone, all of them here, all members of the city council.

378
00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:57,920
My name is Longo, my loto, to get to her.

379
00:37:58,300 --> 00:38:05,600
I live, my address is 11969, South Triposville Avenue, in Tripo, Utah, Seoul, and

380
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:05,940
City.

381
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:13,940
It's a privilege for me to be here tonight, actually we are facing California, we are

382
00:38:13,940 --> 00:38:23,780
not profit, organization, 501 C3, and we cater for senior and elderly people in the community.

383
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:31,300
We just launched a new one here, so this is our second location and I just wanted to touch

384
00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:35,000
space with the city and all the connected area.

385
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:36,280
Madam Chair.

386
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,180
I'm sorry to interrupt, but I believe you're not planning on speaking towards the voting

387
00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:43,400
the council is talking about right now, which is a

388
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:48,200
reason, is that correct? You're planning on speaking just on another topic.

389
00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:51,160
Are you sharing about your nonprofit?

390
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:52,980
Is that what you're hoping to share?

391
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:55,100
So if you're willing?

392
00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:58,320
Yes. If you're willing to wait till we get to our general,

393
00:38:58,740 --> 00:39:00,740
so doesn't comment, which won't be much longer.

394
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,080
But this is particularly about the item that is before us,

395
00:39:06,180 --> 00:39:08,640
which is a reason. I should have clarified better.

396
00:39:09,060 --> 00:39:10,600
No, no, please. You're good.

397
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,440
just hold tight will be we'll be right back to you.

398
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:23,660
Okay, so just checking if there's anyone else in the chambers who would like to speak to this particular item.

399
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:34,860
Madam chair just to be clear we're talking about item number five agenda item number five the Hagen Road Resume we heard we heard from you.

400
00:39:34,860 --> 00:39:39,240
I earlier I didn't see any I looked I don't think we have any.

401
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:51,130
So then if we could please move to online, if there are any members from the public online that would like to speak to this item.

402
00:39:51,930 --> 00:39:59,010
Yes, and then Madam Chair, once that's finished, we do have a comment that we were asked to read into the record as well.

403
00:39:59,130 --> 00:39:59,950
Related to this item.

404
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:14,700
If you are joining us virtually this evening via Zoom and you'd like to comment on item number 5, which is the Hagen Road or Reson application on tonight's agenda, go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen.

405
00:40:15,340 --> 00:40:19,260
We'll call your name in the order in which you raised your hand and you'll have three minutes.

406
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:35,280
Okay Madam Chair, we do have one hand raised, it's Steve Van Marin, Steve. I'm going to allow you to begin speaking. Please remember to unmute yourself and you'll have three minutes.

407
00:40:36,860 --> 00:40:42,500
That evening council members, if the letter that

408
00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:44,740
doesn't Mr. Prattles referred to as for me,

409
00:40:44,740 --> 00:40:47,020
I will withhold my comments at this time.

410
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:47,980
That letter is sufficient.

411
00:40:51,540 --> 00:40:52,020
It was.

412
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,160
I'm happy to read it, Stephen.

413
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,000
Unless you'd prefer to just make your comment.

414
00:40:55,820 --> 00:40:56,160
I'm good.

415
00:40:56,220 --> 00:40:56,880
Thank you, Dustin.

416
00:41:08,780 --> 00:41:11,160
Madam Chair, I don't see any other hands raised online.

417
00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:14,360
I'll go ahead and read the comment to the record.

418
00:41:17,890 --> 00:41:19,730
As mentioned, this is from Steve Van Marin.

419
00:41:19,730 --> 00:41:20,510
It says greetings.

420
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:22,450
I attended the Planning Commission virtually.

421
00:41:22,450 --> 00:41:29,050
I came to the conclusion after all that transpired this reason would overrule a prior council's decision.

422
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:32,810
There was no meeting minutes after the council approved the current zone.

423
00:41:33,370 --> 00:41:35,430
That was being considered for a different action.

424
00:41:35,650 --> 00:41:40,910
So my conclusion is that the council back then decided it was not appropriate to allow animals in this area.

425
00:41:41,790 --> 00:41:48,490
The staff stated that they could not find the minutes, but the reason was not previously allowed to have animals on these larger lots.

426
00:41:48,490 --> 00:41:52,050
I encourage you to not approve the change tonight.

427
00:41:53,310 --> 00:41:55,030
Thank you for listening, Steve Van Marin.

428
00:42:05,070 --> 00:42:06,850
And I don't believe we have any further.

429
00:42:07,830 --> 00:42:11,870
All right, so see no further comments needed.

430
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:14,690
Then I'll go ahead and close public comment on this item.

431
00:42:14,710 --> 00:42:17,810
Bring it back to the council for emotion.

432
00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:24,660
Madam Chair, I'll make a motion to approve ordinance 2656.

433
00:42:25,660 --> 00:42:25,920
Second.

434
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,520
Okay, we have a motion at a second.

435
00:42:29,980 --> 00:42:31,400
Discussion on the motion.

436
00:42:33,550 --> 00:42:34,150
Oh, Ms. Nichol.

437
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:42,350
I just wanted to say, I don't think this is an inconsistent zone for the neighborhood.

438
00:42:42,690 --> 00:42:44,270
I think it once was.

439
00:42:44,430 --> 00:42:45,590
So today, now it's not.

440
00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:47,630
And putting it,

441
00:42:49,690 --> 00:42:50,110
folks.

442
00:42:50,870 --> 00:42:54,250
You know, it's not appropriate to speak from the audience right now.

443
00:42:54,250 --> 00:43:01,550
Well, whatever is happened in the past, it's in the past, and I don't think the animal designation

444
00:43:01,550 --> 00:43:08,450
is a detriment to the neighborhood, and I think it's gone too far with the neighborhood squabbles

445
00:43:08,450 --> 00:43:13,210
to be honest with you. If I haven't seen this very often, but it's been taken

446
00:43:14,290 --> 00:43:17,290
to an extreme. So I want to put an end to this tonight.

447
00:43:20,670 --> 00:43:21,090
Mr. Cherokee?

448
00:43:21,090 --> 00:43:21,750
I

449
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:28,910
have really grappled with this one.

450
00:43:30,450 --> 00:43:31,910
I want to admit that.

451
00:43:32,030 --> 00:43:34,990
I mean between seven years on the Council,

452
00:43:35,190 --> 00:43:36,690
and three years of planning commissioner,

453
00:43:37,490 --> 00:43:41,350
this one is surprisingly difficult for me.

454
00:43:43,210 --> 00:43:45,930
This all started with a code violation, right?

455
00:43:45,930 --> 00:43:46,990
It's very interesting.

456
00:43:46,990 --> 00:43:49,330
It's a very interesting story.

457
00:43:50,290 --> 00:43:52,510
It all started with a code violation

458
00:43:52,510 --> 00:43:59,930
and a surprising discovery, and that discovery was that this property wasn't all ready

459
00:43:59,930 --> 00:44:02,530
zone or 128 for animals.

460
00:44:03,390 --> 00:44:08,010
Apparently, it came as a surprise to Mr. Grant, and I will tell you it came as a surprise

461
00:44:08,010 --> 00:44:09,250
to me too.

462
00:44:10,770 --> 00:44:14,070
I wanted to give this very deep and thorough consideration.

463
00:44:14,450 --> 00:44:21,030
We did receive a surprising amount of input from the public on this, and it isn't just

464
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:28,650
the comments that have made publicly at City Council meetings, but it's also been some of the emails that we've received as well.

465
00:44:28,970 --> 00:44:34,990
And it's surprising amount to public comment for a relatively small request.

466
00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:45,150
Regardless of how this started, Mr. Grant has the right to make a request for a reason.

467
00:44:46,810 --> 00:44:59,950
Thinking about it so deeply and so carefully, in part because of the public input from the neighborhood I wanted to make sure that I landed on the right.

468
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:09,200
Decision, the most fair decision, the one that strict away, all the feelings and focused on the request.

469
00:45:10,060 --> 00:45:29,400
And I do have to agree that I don't think that this property owner should be denied the same rights that the other property owners in the area in the same zoning category of 20 and 30 acre lots.

470
00:45:32,620 --> 00:45:42,900
I think there's a good reason to deny them that same right and opportunity.

471
00:45:43,620 --> 00:45:52,940
So I'll be supporting the, you know, I'll be supporting the motion on this and voting in favor of this as well.

472
00:45:53,260 --> 00:45:53,840
Ms. Prishasan?

473
00:45:54,480 --> 00:46:01,580
I'm in the same mindset as that this my brother actually lived in your neighborhood a couple of years ago and

474
00:46:01,580 --> 00:46:09,900
these are large lots in Sandy. And I am all in favor of the eight as

475
00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:16,720
Ignatians in any of the spots we can put them in the city because that is our root of

476
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:21,740
where our city came from. We were mining town that turned to farmers and that were farmers

477
00:46:21,740 --> 00:46:27,400
for over a hundred years, and so I think that this is a huge benefit to our community, and

478
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,180
that it just makes it more desirable place to live.

479
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,560
Ms. Trump, thank you, Madam Chair.

480
00:46:36,780 --> 00:46:45,520
I too feel that having an agricultural designation that it does not overtly negatively impact

481
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:46,000
an area.

482
00:46:46,220 --> 00:46:47,740
I live right across the street.

483
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:53,820
I'm in an R18, my lot, but right across the street, there's several homes that have

484
00:46:53,820 --> 00:46:55,740
the agricultural designation to it.

485
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,900
They've had horses, they've had llamas,

486
00:47:01,380 --> 00:47:03,040
and a variety of farm animals.

487
00:47:04,060 --> 00:47:09,280
I know that we do have code written down on our books

488
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,520
that talk about how to maintain those animals

489
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,320
to make sure that they are part of the cared for,

490
00:47:17,460 --> 00:47:22,880
that any sort of waste, smell, any sort of nuisance

491
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:37,900
that that is a dress, the part that I'm grappling with is that this is a change for a resident

492
00:47:37,900 --> 00:47:39,980
that has purchased a home in an area.

493
00:47:40,540 --> 00:47:48,300
It is their responsibility to look into what the surrounding neighborhood looks like.

494
00:47:48,300 --> 00:47:54,540
if you have an empty field or a dirt patch at the end of your street to assume that it will

495
00:47:54,540 --> 00:48:02,660
always be a dirt patch is in the Salt Lake Valley scheme of things is not is no longer

496
00:48:03,380 --> 00:48:12,120
reasonable. It will probably be developed. I also look at this from that other side of saying

497
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:18,800
if I bought a home in an area, and I drove down that street, and I can see that the homes

498
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:25,140
are already built, they are established, and I buy one in that neighborhood, I should be able

499
00:48:25,140 --> 00:48:31,100
to make a reasonable assumption that it is not going to be dramatically changed. Once it's

500
00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:37,360
developed, that that's what it will look like. If it is an R18, it will stay in R18. It will

501
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:42,140
not suddenly become a Wal-Mart or a high-density property.

502
00:48:45,020 --> 00:48:51,820
I can really sympathize and understand with a resident who has purchased a home, saying,

503
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,940
I did not buy one with an animal designation.

504
00:48:55,860 --> 00:48:59,280
And once again, this is right across my street.

505
00:49:01,300 --> 00:49:05,580
I have really enjoyed having the animals that were there.

506
00:49:05,580 --> 00:49:08,220
I felt that it was beneficial for my children.

507
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,640
We would walk across the street, feet the horses' carrots.

508
00:49:14,260 --> 00:49:20,080
It was good for them, and it did not harm me.

509
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:25,220
But once again, I bought the home knowing

510
00:49:25,900 --> 00:49:27,780
that there were animals across the street.

511
00:49:28,060 --> 00:49:31,040
And it was not changed after the fact.

512
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:49,980
So this is the part that I'm really that I'm grappling with and I will be a no vote on this because I feel strongly and I've felt this way with many other votes and many other decisions that the council has made.

513
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:59,940
Where we are changing something, changing a land use or a density whatever it might be that we have changed that after.

514
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:12,620
People have bought their property and established their home, their life, and built something under the assumption of what it was when they purchased it.

515
00:50:13,060 --> 00:50:23,960
So I completely respect moving forward with an agricultural desire of designation because I don't think it hasn't hurt.

516
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:31,540
and I've been in my home for 25 years, but I also respects homeowners that have purchased

517
00:50:31,540 --> 00:50:35,160
their home under one assumption, so I will be in no more depth.

518
00:50:37,620 --> 00:50:40,100
Mr. DeKaiser, do you have anything to share?

519
00:50:42,430 --> 00:50:44,290
I don't have anything to share, thank you.

520
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:49,810
Okay. I'll share my thoughts, and then I think we will have heard from everyone, and we can

521
00:50:49,810 --> 00:50:56,430
move forward. I want to echo something that Mr. Van Mayron shared, because that's been part

522
00:50:56,430 --> 00:51:06,210
my deliberation as well, and that is a prior council weighed this decision and intentionally

523
00:51:07,590 --> 00:51:14,130
removed the agricultural state, and I think that is something that is important to consider.

524
00:51:15,770 --> 00:51:24,530
I also recognized and many have heard for me before, know that I really fiercely want to

525
00:51:24,530 --> 00:51:28,750
private property rights. That is important. And I understand that that is one of the

526
00:51:28,750 --> 00:51:33,650
please from this applicant is I really like the opportunity to do what I'd like.

527
00:51:34,090 --> 00:51:39,790
But but there's a reason we have zoning and part of that zoning is yes, yes.

528
00:51:39,970 --> 00:51:44,290
And in an education I've shared this before at least restrictive environment.

529
00:51:44,990 --> 00:51:50,850
Zoning is a bit like that. It's what is the least restrictive environment we can have

530
00:51:50,850 --> 00:51:58,390
to allow a property owner to do what they'd like with their property so long as it stays within

531
00:51:58,390 --> 00:52:04,750
our zoning which is set up to establish some equity for all of those in the surrounding area

532
00:52:04,750 --> 00:52:10,430
of that property. So I've been weighing that quite a bit because it's it's it's it's a balance

533
00:52:10,430 --> 00:52:16,670
that we need to that we need to consider. And then I then I as I was deliberating I remembered

534
00:52:16,670 --> 00:52:21,530
something that was brought to us a few years ago, well, several of us were on the Council.

535
00:52:22,850 --> 00:52:29,570
And in my mind, and I could be wrong, but this is in my mind, I see some similarities here.

536
00:52:29,710 --> 00:52:37,670
Wherein, a request was made to change zoning because of a violation of code.

537
00:52:38,510 --> 00:52:46,170
At the time, this change that was requested was to allow boarding in a certain, a very certain place

538
00:52:46,170 --> 00:52:54,650
in Sandy City and because that was coming that that request was being made because they were

539
00:52:54,650 --> 00:53:01,990
operating in violation of our code and for many reasons I ultimately voted no on that change.

540
00:53:02,490 --> 00:53:11,670
I move forward but I feel there is some similarity here that I I'm not sure that it is appropriate

541
00:53:11,670 --> 00:53:20,490
it to adjust a designation that has been shared by a prior council, made this determination.

542
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:24,530
They said it would not be agricultural rights.

543
00:53:26,210 --> 00:53:31,830
And to overturn what a prior council said, I absolutely understand and respect our planning

544
00:53:31,830 --> 00:53:32,270
commission.

545
00:53:32,650 --> 00:53:34,330
I know they've deliberated as well.

546
00:53:34,690 --> 00:53:35,930
They came to their own conclusion.

547
00:53:36,090 --> 00:53:41,550
They forwarded a positive recommendation, but we are all individuals and selected by

548
00:53:41,550 --> 00:53:46,450
voters to weigh everything. So I do not want to dismiss or take lightly what's been

549
00:53:46,450 --> 00:53:55,770
recommended, but for me, it feels similar. And so when this prior code

550
00:53:55,770 --> 00:54:01,470
violation was remedied with that remedy, even again I voted no on that, but it

551
00:54:01,470 --> 00:54:08,790
ultimately passed, with that remedy there were so many conditions placed. And that's

552
00:54:08,790 --> 00:54:10,850
That's not what this application brings forward.

553
00:54:11,310 --> 00:54:14,670
This application is either a yes or a no.

554
00:54:15,450 --> 00:54:19,030
There is no, what could we put this in place?

555
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:25,450
I asked that question when this was first brought before, and I was told this is a yes or

556
00:54:25,450 --> 00:54:27,310
no, based on what has been presented.

557
00:54:28,270 --> 00:54:35,210
So with all of those considerations and for me, I am not comfortable supporting this application,

558
00:54:35,210 --> 00:54:38,110
And so I will also be a known.

559
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:42,390
So I think we have heard from everyone.

560
00:54:43,410 --> 00:54:45,310
So we have a motion on the second.

561
00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:46,410
Ms. Edwards.

562
00:54:47,110 --> 00:54:47,990
Thank you, Madam Chair.

563
00:54:48,410 --> 00:54:48,930
Ms. Nichol?

564
00:54:49,230 --> 00:54:49,610
Yes.

565
00:54:50,290 --> 00:54:51,210
Ms. Christianson?

566
00:54:51,490 --> 00:54:51,730
Yes.

567
00:54:52,550 --> 00:54:53,350
Mr. DeKaiser?

568
00:54:54,530 --> 00:54:54,770
No.

569
00:54:57,020 --> 00:54:57,760
Ms. Strauss?

570
00:54:58,440 --> 00:54:58,900
No.

571
00:55:01,420 --> 00:55:03,640
This Houseman? No.

572
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:07,500
The Sharkey? Yes.

573
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:14,960
Madam Chair, that vote resulted in a tie of 3 to 3.

574
00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:16,900
Which means it fails?

575
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:18,700
The motion has failed.

576
00:55:21,700 --> 00:55:26,960
So then we need a motion, or the applicant just, it did not have.

577
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:28,640
You've taken action, it didn't pass.

578
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,520
Okay, so it is past six o'clock at this point.

579
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:37,640
So, and again, thank you to all who have been a part of this process.

580
00:55:37,740 --> 00:55:44,660
I know it's been exhaustive, and there's been a lot of thoughts on all sides, but thank

581
00:55:44,660 --> 00:55:47,700
you for sticking with us and making sure your voice was heard.

582
00:55:47,820 --> 00:55:49,320
We appreciate the deliberations.

583
00:55:50,020 --> 00:55:52,420
Okay, so could we resume with you?

584
00:55:52,420 --> 00:55:54,820
I know we've started, so we'd love to come back now.

585
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:56,880
We are, I have one from him.

586
00:55:58,100 --> 00:55:59,620
But this is a different one.

587
00:56:00,460 --> 00:56:00,640
Okay.

588
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:01,860
Please, yes.

589
00:56:01,860 --> 00:56:03,240
Thank you for your patience with us.

590
00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:08,800
If you could continue with now, we're in our general citizen comment so we can hear from anyone

591
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,840
on city-related matters.

592
00:56:12,660 --> 00:56:15,340
Once again, my name is Longhaw and I'm a lot of Dr. Bitoa.

593
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:21,920
My address is 11969 South, Travehsville, M&U, and Travehsville, Utah, and so on.

594
00:56:23,540 --> 00:56:32,000
So, it's a privilege for me to be here tonight to introduce our nonprofit organizations,

595
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,400
since the fire won't stay free.

596
00:56:35,300 --> 00:56:40,060
And we cater for senior and elderly people in the community,

597
00:56:40,340 --> 00:56:46,900
wherever in Utah, what we do, we send the caregivers

598
00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:53,580
to elderly's home or all the adults, only for those who

599
00:56:53,580 --> 00:56:54,460
have low income.

600
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:59,740
So our problem is we have to qualify some seniors

601
00:56:59,740 --> 00:57:03,740
that they are in a lower income.

602
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:10,020
Our mission is to provide home health service home care services

603
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:16,040
to all senior care in the community, including all the living

604
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:20,560
and companionship taking them to their appointment

605
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:25,320
and be at home with them to help them.

606
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:26,860
So,

607
00:57:30,310 --> 00:57:35,770
so in the name of the organization, I'm so sorry, it's long one services provider or LSB.

608
00:57:36,650 --> 00:57:48,770
There's the name of it, and at the end of my speech, I would like to keep a brochure or a business card to that gentleman on the right side.

609
00:57:51,670 --> 00:57:58,850
May the mayor, I would like to request a presentation through the senior advisory committee

610
00:57:58,850 --> 00:58:00,330
in the near future.

611
00:58:01,390 --> 00:58:02,930
Thank you very much.

612
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:05,280
Thank you.

613
00:58:05,420 --> 00:58:08,300
Mr. Fato can receive that for us.

614
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:10,300
Mr. Butterers.

615
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:12,300
He's outside.

616
00:58:14,060 --> 00:58:15,320
Do you want us to wait?

617
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:16,560
Do you need to finish your conversation?

618
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:18,220
So could you clarify?

619
00:58:18,220 --> 00:58:20,120
I received two cards from you.

620
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:21,880
Are you speaking on something later?

621
00:58:23,900 --> 00:58:26,840
Oh, this might be an older one, maybe.

622
00:58:27,220 --> 00:58:29,420
OK, so you're speaking in public comment tonight.

623
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:30,460
Please come forward.

624
00:58:31,100 --> 00:58:31,780
No problem.

625
00:58:42,340 --> 00:58:44,420
All this safety council, I have helped me out.

626
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:45,660
Thank you.

627
00:58:46,180 --> 00:58:48,400
I do appreciate when you guys call me back

628
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,580
and talk to me about my concerns.

629
00:58:55,630 --> 00:58:57,810
How am I going to say this the right way?

630
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:08,860
When you guys get voted in as public office, you're working for the people for us.

631
00:59:10,540 --> 00:59:16,620
A couple of weeks ago, one of the mayor came out saying, you guys, there's her, people.

632
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:22,460
No, she worked for this city of us.

633
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,380
She's our mayor, it got voted in.

634
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:36,200
That's where I'm getting that, is I have went to the mayor, Martin Persley, and then I said,

635
00:59:36,380 --> 00:59:44,220
I am willing to drop this personally and leave this loan on this horse thing.

636
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:48,600
The mayor will still not come out and say, yes, I gave it to my state.

637
00:59:49,180 --> 00:59:53,240
I have done the mistakes, I come out and say I've done the mistake.

638
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,940
That's where I don't think

639
00:59:59,110 --> 00:59:59,930
I am.

640
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:29,720
I feel like someone is in the public eyes. If it was you, you, anybody in this council, I'm going to hold you to your, he did, did a mistake. I will hold Mark in a council, I'll hold the police chief for council. I don't care. But I'm looking at it where the public's looking at it. Look at what's going on with the mayor magna for right now.

641
01:00:33,140 --> 01:00:40,520
Where do we go from here? It's like you guys are in public office. She's in public office

642
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:46,840
You guys work for the people's handy. I do appreciate everything. You guys have done

643
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:50,660
For me and I appreciate everything

644
01:00:51,660 --> 01:00:56,540
But I think the mayor needs to really get down to a route and

645
01:00:56,540 --> 01:01:01,960
Think about I have gave her an option to say sorry to the whole full book about this

646
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:14,180
it's someone needs to own up to a mistake. That's all I'm saying. I don't

647
01:01:14,180 --> 01:01:20,820
up to my mistake. I cop, cop, cop with a tell light out this last week. I didn't

648
01:01:20,820 --> 01:01:28,620
know about it, but I didn't my creature cop gave me a warning about it. But what

649
01:01:28,620 --> 01:01:36,100
would that force done? If it would have got broken loose off the land, it could have killed

650
01:01:36,100 --> 01:01:44,880
the kid for another animal. That's where I'm getting that. Where is the safety? That's a

651
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:52,880
thousand pound force it's going to go crazy. Thank you. Thank you. All right, next we have Grant

652
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,980
And if I mispronounce, please correct me.

653
01:02:03,460 --> 01:02:05,200
Council Mayor and staff.

654
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,520
I appreciate the opportunity to come into your city and share a thought.

655
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:14,000
I think it's a lot easier than the things that you've been dealing with today.

656
01:02:15,980 --> 01:02:17,700
In 1786,

657
01:02:21,900 --> 01:02:43,700
the assembly headed by Thomas Jefferson, who was the governor at the time, and James Madison, who was an assembly member of Virginia, also at the time, passed the first law that provided protection for freedom or religion in the United States.

658
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:53,700
In 1992, our Congress of the United States passed and it put into effect January 16th,

659
01:02:54,440 --> 01:03:00,100
recognized in the day that that first law was given as Freedom of Religion Day.

660
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:09,720
Every present since that time has publicly recognized and affirmed that opportunity for freedom of religion

661
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:11,640
through Friedland for Intelligent Day.

662
01:03:13,020 --> 01:03:19,000
On 2015, the State of Utah adopted the same pattern

663
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:23,360
and made to anywhere 16th Friedland for Intelligent Day

664
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,900
for the citizens of the State of Utah.

665
01:03:26,740 --> 01:03:33,000
Since 2020, I have visited several city councils.

666
01:03:33,540 --> 01:03:36,700
Usually, once I be a little bit more per year,

667
01:03:36,700 --> 01:03:46,900
And there are now six cities here in the south part of the valley who have adopted January 16th of Freedom of Religion Day.

668
01:03:47,340 --> 01:03:59,400
I would like to point out that this is a resolution that encourages and supports the opportunity for unity among citizens.

669
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:04,380
in a period of time when there's significant differences

670
01:04:04,380 --> 01:04:09,060
of opinion, it provides a bolster and an expectation

671
01:04:09,060 --> 01:04:14,660
for our citizens to look at the freedom of religion

672
01:04:14,660 --> 01:04:19,540
to remind them of the opportunities that we have to work together

673
01:04:19,540 --> 01:04:22,520
and this resolution.

674
01:04:24,420 --> 01:04:26,760
I've given some samples and copies,

675
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:31,220
as well as the governor's copy from this past year.

676
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:38,460
He's done it every year and would encourage your counsel and your mayor and your staff to support

677
01:04:38,460 --> 01:04:47,260
the opportunity to designate January 16th as Freedom of Religion Day for Sandy City.

678
01:04:49,250 --> 01:04:51,010
I'm going to take any questions.

679
01:04:52,590 --> 01:04:56,390
During public comment we listened to the public but it's not a back and forth.

680
01:04:56,390 --> 01:04:59,930
understand. But we appreciate your remarks and we do have your package.

681
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,460
Thank you very much. Next, we have Anthony Romo.

682
01:05:10,350 --> 01:05:11,410
Maybe we don't have Anthony.

683
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:19,260
Okay. Well, I'll hold on to it. Come check again. Julie Hepworth, please.

684
01:05:27,620 --> 01:05:43,000
Are you waiting for for that item specifically? That's fine. Yeah. Oh, you're right. I'm sorry. It's written right there. And I didn't. I just did see it. Thank you for that. All right. We'll hold off on that. But Anthony was listed here. He did check Anthony.

685
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:46,880
or sorry, you did check. General says in comment, but, okay.

686
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:56,980
Let's take. Sure, if you don't mind but we will go ahead and check from our public that is online to see if anyone wants to speak during General says in comment.

687
01:05:57,900 --> 01:06:04,660
Of course Madam Chair. Again, if you're joining us virtually this evening via Zoom and you'd like to comment on any city business.

688
01:06:05,420 --> 01:06:11,940
Go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen now and I'll call your name in the order which you raised your hand and you'll have three minutes.

689
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,700
And I'm sure I'm not seeing any hands raised online.

690
01:06:31,390 --> 01:06:31,890
All right.

691
01:06:31,970 --> 01:06:32,570
I'm not either.

692
01:06:32,830 --> 01:06:33,290
Thank you.

693
01:06:33,590 --> 01:06:35,630
So one last call for Anthony.

694
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:39,300
Okay.

695
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:40,420
We'll go ahead and close.

696
01:06:40,500 --> 01:06:41,480
General says in comment.

697
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:42,720
And I am going to council.

698
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,080
I'm going to bring us back to the top of our agenda.

699
01:06:46,060 --> 01:06:48,900
And lead off with item number two.

700
01:06:49,220 --> 01:06:51,020
Our joint meeting of our planning commission.

701
01:06:51,260 --> 01:06:51,840
The city council.

702
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:53,140
So public.

703
01:06:53,380 --> 01:06:54,020
If you'll hold.

704
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:55,220
Type for just a bit.

705
01:06:55,300 --> 01:06:58,080
We are going to invite our planning commission to come up and join us.

706
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:04,720
We have chairs up here that we'll go ahead and open up and fill in spots.

707
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:09,220
So please put, I guess so.

708
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:13,620
And planning commissioners, if you just want to unfold one of the chairs up there and just

709
01:07:13,620 --> 01:07:15,620
take a seat between the council members, that'd be fantastic.

710
01:07:34,060 --> 01:07:39,480
And if one of you wants to go sit down by Mr. DeKaiser, there's an open seat down there as well.

711
01:07:46,140 --> 01:07:51,600
She has somebody I

712
01:07:57,300 --> 01:07:58,880
promise that Mr. DeKaiser does

713
01:08:05,180 --> 01:08:26,560
not bite all right I think we are

714
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:56,540
set, Melissa Anderson. Thank you. If you will go ahead and and so for the public that this is kind of a combined experience for both our city council and our planning commission listening together asking questions, et cetera, et cetera. So everyone's got a mic close enough and we can share if you want an alternative. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. So what this is is an update to the sea council and planning commission and

715
01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:03,960
And the public of our code update, we're doing a comprehensive update to the land development code.

716
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:06,760
And it's a multi-year process.

717
01:09:07,020 --> 01:09:12,120
So periodically we want to make sure and update after we complete a major milestone,

718
01:09:12,140 --> 01:09:22,220
one of which is a completion recently by our consultant team of the assessment and best practices report

719
01:09:22,220 --> 01:09:31,660
looking at our existing code and how approaches to make improvements to that code in a

720
01:09:31,660 --> 01:09:32,540
comprehensive manner.

721
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:39,460
And so tonight we have Chris Hub from Somers who's the project manager from the firm

722
01:09:39,460 --> 01:09:46,480
that we hired based off of generous grant from the Washington Front Regional Council as

723
01:09:46,480 --> 01:09:53,800
as a decision by our leadership, our council to fund this project overall.

724
01:09:54,980 --> 01:09:59,940
And so Chris is here to do that presentation and so I'll just hand it over to you.

725
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:13,500
We just want to make sure and keep you informed so that we don't surprise you at the end of the project with, you know, a big project with, you know, just keep you informed. So anyway, Chris.

726
01:10:20,350 --> 01:10:27,410
I had mentioned Mossett Front Regional Council as one of our partners in the majority of the funding for this project.

727
01:10:27,410 --> 01:10:37,210
And from what's at front is Brian Head, who's a project manager from that organization he's here tonight as well.

728
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:46,580
Okay. Last time I presented, we went over the preliminary assessment that we had started.

729
01:10:47,220 --> 01:10:51,360
We'll go lightly over that today and give you enough data to where we are.

730
01:10:53,140 --> 01:10:56,540
As we've been going through this, one of the big takes is, as you'll see here,

731
01:10:56,540 --> 01:11:00,980
is the plain English look at why we're updating this.

732
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:03,700
This is one of the pieces as to why we're updating it.

733
01:11:04,060 --> 01:11:08,060
The state code requires that to be in plain English,

734
01:11:08,220 --> 01:11:10,140
so everyone can understand this and go through that.

735
01:11:10,780 --> 01:11:13,420
But we'll talk about that as we go through this.

736
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:17,500
A little bit of background, which you all are aware of.

737
01:11:17,540 --> 01:11:20,580
The vision was created through the general plan,

738
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:24,020
that pace of progress general plan adopted last year,

739
01:11:24,020 --> 01:11:30,380
Now is the time to make those pieces of reality this specific vision actually giving teeth to that

740
01:11:31,420 --> 01:11:38,120
Actually before we jump into that again just an overview for the public and and this spot as well

741
01:11:38,900 --> 01:11:44,240
You held in credible outreach 47 events throughout that process

742
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:52,020
The eight key strategies which will touch on lightly here and then the next steps is to rewrite that ordinance

743
01:11:52,020 --> 01:12:00,330
one of the big strategies obviously was to rewrite the code. Thus why we're doing this? Why the

744
01:12:00,330 --> 01:12:06,010
codes of being updated now? Again, we've given a little bit of this background and seeing as a

745
01:12:06,010 --> 01:12:12,690
lot of you have been sitting here for a while. You understand that it's been a few years,

746
01:12:12,910 --> 01:12:18,190
almost 20 years since the last comprehensive update. There have been a thinned thems and

747
01:12:18,190 --> 01:12:30,230
Minimence and changes to the code since then, but no comprehensive look to make sure that the structure and the organization's clean and simple up to work through and so that's part of why

748
01:12:30,230 --> 01:12:38,070
What we found in the preliminary assessment these rules some of them are a little bit difficult to find there's some

749
01:12:38,070 --> 01:12:42,070
In consistencies with some of those and there's also duplicated information

750
01:12:42,570 --> 01:12:48,350
So part of this is we're looking to streamline that process, make it a little bit cleaner,

751
01:12:48,730 --> 01:12:54,090
easier to find these pieces, and other pieces again, because the state law has moved or

752
01:12:54,090 --> 01:12:59,470
or changed, we need to make sure that the code for the city is updated to that, and then the

753
01:12:59,470 --> 01:13:02,070
general plan specifics need teeth.

754
01:13:04,810 --> 01:13:07,530
As I go through this feel free to stop me if you have any

755
01:13:07,530 --> 01:13:13,030
questions, I don't mind being interrupted. So what is the development code?

756
01:13:13,350 --> 01:13:19,350
we're writing this in part obviously you know what the development code is hopefully at this point

757
01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:25,030
but this is this is more for the public as well as this this this body just to give everyone that

758
01:13:25,030 --> 01:13:29,870
update as to where we are today this is also an information that we're going to be presenting at the

759
01:13:29,870 --> 01:13:36,110
heritage day which I'll talk a little bit about that as well but this is the city's blueprint for building

760
01:13:37,010 --> 01:13:42,950
for what can be done what can't be done obviously you've talked about some of those tonight

761
01:13:42,950 --> 01:13:49,330
But we're going to be looking at all of these things to understand with this health safety and general

762
01:13:49,330 --> 01:13:56,130
where welfare community needs are and make sure that those are incorporated as part of the

763
01:13:56,130 --> 01:14:00,650
vision from the general plan and the state updates and other things that we've seen in other

764
01:14:00,650 --> 01:14:08,230
communities as we work through these these code updates. The code by the numbers and this I'll

765
01:14:08,230 --> 01:14:15,110
touch on briefly. Currently there's 38 chapters plus the appendix. There are four separate

766
01:14:15,110 --> 01:14:20,310
land use tables. One of the first things that we're wanting to do as part of the preliminary

767
01:14:20,310 --> 01:14:26,870
assessment is to consolidate some of those things so you're not having to or the staff isn't

768
01:14:26,870 --> 01:14:33,230
having to or developers not having to search several different pieces of your code to find the answer.

769
01:14:33,230 --> 01:14:37,530
and a lot of times we missed that because they looked in X, Y, and Z section, they didn't think

770
01:14:37,530 --> 01:14:42,490
they needed to look in A, B, and C as well. And so just cleaning that up and simplifying it a

771
01:14:42,490 --> 01:14:47,810
little bit makes it that much easier for you to maintain the staff to maintain and developers to

772
01:14:47,810 --> 01:14:53,550
actually understand that code, which I know you've heard some of those concerns and issues in the

773
01:14:53,550 --> 01:14:59,950
Another piece, there are existing 572 terms defined and up.

774
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:27,860
How those terms defined and I believe it's on the next slide? Nope, it's on a further slide. We'll touch on that. There are several about the missing middle housing and that housing that you've already addressed and worked through. A lot of those terms are not in these existing 572 definitions. So that's part of what we'll be looking at in addition to the other pieces. There are existing 171 residential use categories and

775
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:37,120
30 plus zones written for single parcel, meaning the SD zones, I'll touch on that up in a little bit as well.

776
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:42,760
Of the 171 uses 102 are banned in every single zone.

777
01:15:43,460 --> 01:15:46,580
So there's some consolidation, some cleanup, if it's banned everywhere.

778
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:54,040
Maybe there's another way to do it so that you don't have to search through 171 things when you just scroll through a page.

779
01:15:56,060 --> 01:16:03,360
So, how this review has been done so far or how it will continually be done, we did a

780
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:05,840
for cursory look at the existing code.

781
01:16:05,980 --> 01:16:11,540
We look through Title 21 and understood what the baseline is today.

782
01:16:12,020 --> 01:16:18,640
We took our existing knowledge, the general plan, state law, and the housing workshop that

783
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:19,720
you had already completed.

784
01:16:20,300 --> 01:16:24,660
We took all those pieces and we did this preliminary assessment to understand this is the best

785
01:16:24,660 --> 01:16:25,080
practices.

786
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:27,240
is this is what we would typically do.

787
01:16:27,660 --> 01:16:28,500
That was our first step.

788
01:16:28,580 --> 01:16:32,120
The second step is we did a revised version of that.

789
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:34,260
After we met with many on the Council,

790
01:16:34,440 --> 01:16:36,640
many on the Planning Commission, staff,

791
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:40,840
development community, and other strategic partnerships

792
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:42,480
and groups throughout the city.

793
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:45,380
And we revised that preliminary assessment

794
01:16:45,380 --> 01:16:47,980
based on the heavy context of the city.

795
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,200
Our next steps are working through this framework.

796
01:16:51,340 --> 01:16:52,620
So we did the preliminary assessment.

797
01:16:52,620 --> 01:16:59,700
our next step is to do take all of these pieces and establish a very detailed framework that says

798
01:16:59,700 --> 01:17:06,780
this is how the structure of the coach work. That'll be our next piece and then as we go through

799
01:17:06,780 --> 01:17:13,040
that the following step will actually be moving the pieces of the code taking what's good, keeping it,

800
01:17:13,220 --> 01:17:15,460
and changing the things that need adjustments.

801
01:17:18,180 --> 01:17:22,360
The five major ways this code or the buckets in which

802
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:25,720
we have essentially taken all the preliminary assessment

803
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:27,520
on these five right on screen.

804
01:17:27,900 --> 01:17:28,920
So easier to understand.

805
01:17:29,420 --> 01:17:33,620
Again, that talks a little bit about the plain language.

806
01:17:34,020 --> 01:17:35,820
It also talks about that structure,

807
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:37,340
cleaning it up.

808
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:39,360
There's no duplicative information.

809
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,440
Easier to understand, making it so that it flows.

810
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:45,100
So that if I'm a random person off the street,

811
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:47,120
I can look up the code and figure out

812
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:49,220
where that item should be.

813
01:17:49,220 --> 01:17:53,120
just a blueprint to match the community's plan.

814
01:17:53,820 --> 01:17:56,220
So the existing vision that you have taking that,

815
01:17:56,900 --> 01:17:59,720
understanding that process and how we can simplify

816
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:03,520
some of those pieces so that it's applicable in the code

817
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:06,540
that you can actually follow the vision that you've established.

818
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,620
So that's that better planning piece and then more housing choices.

819
01:18:09,980 --> 01:18:14,540
That heavily comes from the decisions and the discussions that you have had.

820
01:18:14,900 --> 01:18:18,660
And that's also where we talked about a little bit of those.

821
01:18:18,660 --> 01:18:28,420
specific terms that are mentioned in that housing assessment, but aren't actually found in the code today or not defined in the code today

822
01:18:28,420 --> 01:18:34,420
so actually bringing that into the code and then better community design. We know as we've worked through

823
01:18:35,220 --> 01:18:41,660
Karen's district and some of these other there's some complexities to those when a developer comes in and says, well,

824
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:48,420
I want to do this in this area and you're like we love that, but based on this you have to have

825
01:18:50,160 --> 01:19:03,480
36 exemptions or something, we need to look through that process and figure out what can we do to simplify that, keep the things that are important to community development and remove the things that are not.

826
01:19:04,140 --> 01:19:09,980
And then just general process. How can we streamline that process so it's quick and predictable?

827
01:19:09,980 --> 01:19:18,560
When I come into the city it's the same in two years as it is today. I'll get the same response if the situation is the same

828
01:19:19,300 --> 01:19:24,580
So as we go through this easier to understand, I won't talk about this already. We want to make sure that

829
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:31,420
If a citizen comes into the code, they can find the role. It's

830
01:19:31,420 --> 01:19:39,000
Easy to find. I can comply with that. If it's not easy to find that's when you start to get staff time at the desk

831
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:44,160
calls and questions here where he would just don't know no or couldn't find that.

832
01:19:44,620 --> 01:19:47,680
So the more we can minimize that and streamline that process,

833
01:19:48,460 --> 01:19:52,100
the easier it is to minimize the time that you have to spend here,

834
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:54,320
which I think you would appreciate.

835
01:19:58,010 --> 01:19:59,950
So with this piece, we have a step...

836
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:25,500
This is the rule for every single piece that goes in the code. So let's say, for example, a fence. This is the rule. If we're changing anything to fence, this is the rule as to where that would go, or if it's animal rights or whatever it may be. You can actually follow these rules and understand that's exactly where it's going to go. That's where that information will hit. And so that's what this is talking about.

837
01:20:25,500 --> 01:20:30,960
simplifying some of those chapters, we've organized them into seven specific parts and we

838
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:37,260
won't touch on that. That much today, general provisions which standard things that the

839
01:20:37,260 --> 01:20:44,600
city needs to address, administration procedure, so process, zoning districts, the specific districts

840
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:50,460
that are established in the city, use regulations, so the details of those zones, development

841
01:20:50,460 --> 01:20:57,780
and the design center. So the things that city staff establish for road sections and all

842
01:20:57,780 --> 01:21:03,120
the things like that, that's where they can actually clip to and link to that information,

843
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:09,080
definitions which we've already addressed. And then existing special districts, there's quite

844
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:16,060
a few special districts, that's where those will sit as we continue to work through this. Consolidated

845
01:21:16,060 --> 01:21:17,920
tables one part per question,

846
01:21:18,740 --> 01:21:19,780
consistent numbering throughout.

847
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:22,100
Those are the types of things that we're looking at

848
01:21:22,100 --> 01:21:23,320
with this code update.

849
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:28,620
Plain English, these two diagrams on this page,

850
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:31,400
the left is, essentially, the code today.

851
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:34,960
The right is where we're wanting to get to.

852
01:21:35,480 --> 01:21:38,240
You can decide for yourself which one you like better.

853
01:21:38,780 --> 01:21:41,060
One of them is easier to get through.

854
01:21:44,910 --> 01:21:48,170
The other piece, as we continue to work

855
01:21:48,170 --> 01:21:52,070
development community as we continue working with residents and other things a lot of the

856
01:21:52,070 --> 01:21:57,530
codes that we come across are not what is called dynamic and what that means in developer

857
01:21:57,530 --> 01:22:03,630
terms meaning web developer terms is it can adjust based on the screen that you're looking

858
01:22:03,630 --> 01:22:09,210
at it with. So if it's on a phone which is where a lot of these things are now accessed it

859
01:22:09,210 --> 01:22:14,270
will actually shrink or readjust to actually work well on a phone as opposed to a tablet

860
01:22:14,270 --> 01:22:16,230
of our laptop or desktop.

861
01:22:17,170 --> 01:22:20,270
And so making a code that works dynamically

862
01:22:20,270 --> 01:22:22,290
as another piece that we're looking into.

863
01:22:24,230 --> 01:22:26,030
This thing to better planning.

864
01:22:26,190 --> 01:22:28,190
So the community already agreed on the vision.

865
01:22:28,990 --> 01:22:33,530
Now we're looking to deliver the tool that establishes

866
01:22:33,530 --> 01:22:37,170
the specific criteria to make that real.

867
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:41,580
Touch on this.

868
01:22:41,780 --> 01:22:44,000
The bottom piece I'll touch on here

869
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:50,080
is some of those specifics as to what we're trying to take out of the general plan and put into

870
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:50,440
the code.

871
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:56,240
We've talked about the transit stations, the adopted plans for those areas, how do we make those

872
01:22:56,240 --> 01:23:01,980
real in the code? In addition to that, the neighborhood activity centers, the corridors and

873
01:23:01,980 --> 01:23:07,720
those pieces that were addressed in the general plan and in these key strategies and then

874
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:09,220
tie them to actual roles.

875
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:18,760
I'll touch on this briefly, so existing you have 30 plus written special districts.

876
01:23:19,980 --> 01:23:26,620
What we're looking to do is we're looking to take the zoning and to take the existing code that you have

877
01:23:26,620 --> 01:23:36,780
and make it flexible so that there is limited discretion so that the city is protected and safe in that circumstance.

878
01:23:36,780 --> 01:23:48,500
But these special districts, which are specific to one spot in the city, can be more broadly associated with other locations, given certain circumstances.

879
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:57,000
So if we add some flexibility to a zone that this special district can now fit into, this special district is not needed anymore.

880
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:10,220
So there's that ability to establish that in existing code framework and eliminate non-conformities but still allow that special district to be standardized across the city.

881
01:24:11,660 --> 01:24:18,140
More housing choices, which I know this has been something that the city has worked on for quite a while.

882
01:24:18,260 --> 01:24:24,000
The three big pieces is affordable, honourable and available for people at every stage of life.

883
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:30,340
So that's, that's sort of the crux that we're looking at this and the lens that we're looking at this through obviously with

884
01:24:30,340 --> 01:24:36,340
with a document that's already been worked on to add is that framework for this.

885
01:24:38,470 --> 01:24:43,650
I don't know if we need to touch on this that much seeing as you did spend quite a bit of time on it.

886
01:24:44,550 --> 01:24:48,290
We'll just touch on on some of the pieces that came out of that process.

887
01:24:49,310 --> 01:24:54,450
The difference between apartments and single family homes large, lots and things.

888
01:24:54,450 --> 01:24:59,950
That range of housing between where to the seniors senior housing go where to the

889
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:13,660
First time home by earth, where are some of these other products that are missing in the city for residents that have no option here and have to move elsewhere? How do we get these back into the city? So that's essentially what we're touching on here.

890
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:28,100
As I briefly mentioned earlier, as part of that, these 572 definitions, we will look to standard ICs, make sure that they are defensible, understandable, and have diagrams to support.

891
01:25:28,100 --> 01:25:36,660
So, if I'm looking at housing height on a hill or wherever it may be, it's consistent across the board.

892
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:40,360
We get the same answer and a developer coming in.

893
01:25:40,500 --> 01:25:43,680
Well understand, that's exactly how it's measured. That's exactly how it's measured.

894
01:25:44,820 --> 01:25:48,200
In addition to that, the codice cluster, small multiplex, senior housing,

895
01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:50,240
some of these other pieces are not defined in the code.

896
01:25:50,700 --> 01:25:54,900
So, bringing those definitions into the code is another piece that we're looking at.

897
01:25:54,900 --> 01:26:00,300
the next piece, better community design. I did touch on this, speaking about the

898
01:26:00,300 --> 01:26:03,660
Karen's district and some of these other pieces in the city, there's a little

899
01:26:03,660 --> 01:26:08,840
bit of complexity. What we want to specifically look at is streamlining that

900
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:14,580
process and that the development standards are associated with that so that we

901
01:26:14,580 --> 01:26:19,120
keep those things that actually move the needle for the better community design and

902
01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:27,180
move the barriers to development that don't actually do anything, as far as helping get the

903
01:26:27,180 --> 01:26:31,960
vision and the outcome that you're looking for. So that is one of the pieces that we'll

904
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:36,620
be looking through, making sure these standards are defensible, they're easy to follow practical

905
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:41,680
and actually move that needle. It's not there just to make something more expensive.

906
01:26:44,330 --> 01:26:44,840
With that,

907
01:26:46,580 --> 01:26:52,740
We've done a little bit of development, and that's a... I get a little sarcastic sometimes.

908
01:26:53,460 --> 01:27:00,280
We've done quite a bit. And in this process, some of the big pieces that we've noticed move that needle,

909
01:27:00,460 --> 01:27:04,820
and this is where we'll focus is there are some architectural pieces that obviously move the needle.

910
01:27:04,820 --> 01:27:12,140
There are some that do not. Parking, trees and water, lighting, and all of these pieces.

911
01:27:12,740 --> 01:27:17,480
We'll look at standardizing this, and we'll obviously pass it in front of this body.

912
01:27:17,740 --> 01:27:18,420
We'll talk through that.

913
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:21,720
We'll work through those pieces as we continue to go through the framework and the actual

914
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:22,700
development of this code.

915
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:26,260
But these are some of the big points that we're going to be looking to.

916
01:27:28,930 --> 01:27:35,670
And then the other piece that comes out of the general plan is this street focus.

917
01:27:36,470 --> 01:27:38,230
Street's built for people, not just cars.

918
01:27:38,410 --> 01:27:43,230
Moving people through these streets, making a comfortable environment what actually moves

919
01:27:43,230 --> 01:27:49,690
for them and what doesn't. And so looking at those pieces for walking, biking,

920
01:27:49,870 --> 01:27:54,190
transit, and so on. Because those were big components as part of the general plan.

921
01:27:57,470 --> 01:28:00,910
Process. One of the number one things that we heard consistently from the

922
01:28:00,910 --> 01:28:05,950
development community was the time at which it takes to get through some of the processes

923
01:28:05,950 --> 01:28:11,350
that is not unique to Sandy. That is across the board, across the Wassette,

924
01:28:11,350 --> 01:28:17,770
across the US, across Utah, whatever, maybe this is a consistent thing that we hear from everyone.

925
01:28:18,850 --> 01:28:24,850
So it's not that the process is bad or terrible. There are things that we can do to streamline it,

926
01:28:24,850 --> 01:28:30,110
so that it's easier and more predictable for anybody to come and say, okay, here's my timeline.

927
01:28:30,550 --> 01:28:33,450
This is exactly what's required of me, and this is the process.

928
01:28:33,650 --> 01:28:37,710
So you get exactly what you want, and there's that partnership.

929
01:28:37,710 --> 01:28:37,930
But

930
01:28:40,690 --> 01:28:48,490
one of the big pieces of that is the some levels of ambiguity with definitions and

931
01:28:48,490 --> 01:28:49,370
a parts of the code.

932
01:28:49,490 --> 01:29:00,130
As we remove discretion, it allows you to defend the code, defend the city in a practical

933
01:29:00,130 --> 01:29:01,250
and legal way.

934
01:29:01,650 --> 01:29:08,730
So that a developer doesn't have the ability to come in and say, well, you're taking my opportunity

935
01:29:08,730 --> 01:29:13,610
to do what I want to do, and there's nothing in the code that says you can't.

936
01:29:14,130 --> 01:29:20,610
We want to make sure that the text where it says, as deemed appropriate, does that mean?

937
01:29:21,490 --> 01:29:22,050
I don't know.

938
01:29:23,270 --> 01:29:27,930
As determined by the commission, a little bit of the ambiguity there.

939
01:29:28,890 --> 01:29:31,050
A lot of discretion, that's where we get into trouble.

940
01:29:31,390 --> 01:29:37,170
We want to remove some of this type of language to make it, no, it's 35 feet maximum.

941
01:29:37,170 --> 01:29:44,190
and here's the way that that's measured, whether it's on flat ground or slope or whatever, you know exactly what that means.

942
01:29:45,250 --> 01:29:50,330
60% of the ground for in-windows. The a crosswalk every 400 feet.

943
01:29:50,410 --> 01:29:55,770
Very specific criteria that is very defensible and you can measure.

944
01:29:59,770 --> 01:29:59,950
So...

945
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:26,760
With that said, what happens next? We've obviously completed this assessment. That is available. This next piece is we are going through the framework, which is it sounds simple. There's a lot to it. We're going through a few pages of code and taking all the section in this, trying to make sure that there's streamlined and organized in a systematic process that makes sense to no matter who comes into it.

946
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:32,680
They can come to the same conclusion, the same organizational structure, 10 years down the road,

947
01:30:32,700 --> 01:30:36,580
two years down the road, whether you're half asleep or fully awake.

948
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:42,120
We want to make sure that the outline of that is consistent.

949
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:46,580
And so that's the next piece that we've been working on and we'll continue to work on,

950
01:30:46,580 --> 01:30:54,240
and we'll be coming back in November 17th with that information, just as a FYI.

951
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:59,660
We'll be working through staff with that as well, so continue to vet that.

952
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:06,920
Then the next piece is, alongside of all of this, there's the public review and the information

953
01:31:06,920 --> 01:31:11,880
going on to the website, going to Heritage Days on Saturday, and some of these other

954
01:31:11,880 --> 01:31:17,420
pieces just to incorporate the community so that they're not in the dark as well.

955
01:31:17,980 --> 01:31:22,900
And then obviously, as we go through this whole process, it will end in that those public

956
01:31:22,900 --> 01:31:32,800
here. So with that said, here's the last slide of how individuals can get involved. We have

957
01:31:32,800 --> 01:31:40,900
drafts posted or information posted so that the public can see what's happening. We have

958
01:31:40,900 --> 01:31:48,060
public comment available. We have received one individual interested in following it.

959
01:31:51,420 --> 01:31:52,280
That's

960
01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:58,280
really want to punish themselves in the community, please read through the code, and then obviously

961
01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:02,520
we have our first open house at Heritage Days, and there will be two more to follow after

962
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:05,420
that. Any questions with that?

963
01:32:08,130 --> 01:32:11,250
Council or Commission, Ms. Sharkey?

964
01:32:16,530 --> 01:32:22,870
I do get concerned when I hear a discussion about the marriage of the land development code

965
01:32:22,870 --> 01:32:28,150
in the general plan. I understand that there would have to be some amount of that.

966
01:32:28,150 --> 01:32:34,270
Yeah. We did adopt a general plan as an example. We adopted a general plan that talked about

967
01:32:34,270 --> 01:32:39,310
mansion style homes, but the land development code doesn't have a residential design standard

968
01:32:39,310 --> 01:32:46,730
for that, right? So I understand why they would have to correlate. But I think they're two different

969
01:32:46,730 --> 01:32:54,190
documents. I think the land development code is a rulebook, a blueprint for what is expected.

970
01:32:54,190 --> 01:33:03,490
I think a general plan is a possible vision of a possible future, and so you used another,

971
01:33:03,970 --> 01:33:10,710
you used the word discretion wanting to, to some extent or another, remove discretion.

972
01:33:11,450 --> 01:33:13,370
I'm going to have to think about that one.

973
01:33:14,570 --> 01:33:16,250
We're not removing it completely.

974
01:33:16,290 --> 01:33:23,110
That's an impossibility, but where we want to be defensively, we want to remove the discretion

975
01:33:23,110 --> 01:33:24,570
that will get you in trouble.

976
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:28,400
I'm going to have to think about what that means.

977
01:33:29,060 --> 01:33:29,080
Right?

978
01:33:29,860 --> 01:33:29,880
Yeah.

979
01:33:29,880 --> 01:33:31,020
So I think, too.

980
01:33:31,500 --> 01:33:34,740
My point of view, I think, is shared by many other cities.

981
01:33:34,780 --> 01:33:39,480
Ms. Nichol and I are members of the League of Cities and Towns legislative policy committee.

982
01:33:40,180 --> 01:33:48,420
And a legislator brought a bill to a last year for approval that would make the general plan a zoning map.

983
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:52,100
And cities universally said, no.

984
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:55,640
And so there's a reason for that, right?

985
01:33:56,160 --> 01:34:00,780
And so I just want to make sure that I put in my two cents here on this issue.

986
01:34:01,440 --> 01:34:06,040
I understand that they're highly correlated and why they need to be.

987
01:34:07,060 --> 01:34:09,920
I don't know exactly how to explain where the line is,

988
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:12,800
but there also needs to be a line, right?

989
01:34:12,820 --> 01:34:14,120
Yeah, they aren't the same.

990
01:34:14,120 --> 01:34:15,880
You're correct. They aren't the same document.

991
01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:18,440
The general plan is the guiding document.

992
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:28,620
Genre plans typically don't have significant teeth, but you even talked about it, you referenced it.

993
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:35,800
The legislature tried to make the general plan map a simply code, and it failed across the state.

994
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:44,920
There's a reason for that, because the general plan allows you to envision that flexibility, that future, that growth.

995
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:53,680
And anyone who live through 2020 can reasonably say, I have no clue what's going to happen tomorrow.

996
01:34:54,660 --> 01:34:56,720
No one expected 2020 to happen.

997
01:34:57,640 --> 01:34:59,940
And so as I've seen these general plans change...

998
01:35:02,100 --> 01:35:12,560
There's been a lot more resiliency and flexibility out of these general plans that can be difficult to capture it in a code rewrite or a code update.

999
01:35:13,060 --> 01:35:19,040
And so there will be some level of overlap with the two documents, just because the general plan is our guiding document.

1000
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:22,920
So there will be pieces that come into the code.

1001
01:35:23,440 --> 01:35:26,760
However, as a follow-up to that, remember,

1002
01:35:27,400 --> 01:35:30,820
this body is the body that approves the code update.

1003
01:35:31,340 --> 01:35:35,300
So as we work through sections, as we go through some of these pieces,

1004
01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:40,080
there will be technical committees where we discuss specific issues

1005
01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:46,140
and get the understanding of what the city wants to do in those circumstances.

1006
01:35:46,140 --> 01:35:52,200
So although the general plan is the guiding document, the code is where the rubber meets the road.

1007
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:56,380
So it may not look exactly or identical to each other.

1008
01:35:56,500 --> 01:36:01,840
It won't because one is code and one is vision.

1009
01:36:03,180 --> 01:36:04,360
Hopefully that helps.

1010
01:36:07,300 --> 01:36:13,140
I would just add that like in the general plan, the transit oriented development or

1011
01:36:13,140 --> 01:36:20,000
stations. We don't have tools like a zone or an overlays zone with specific standards, land

1012
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:27,060
uses that are in our code now to actually make that happen. So it's in our general plan

1013
01:36:27,060 --> 01:36:33,740
and we have no tool to implement it. If you're going to do a rezone in, or, well, some things

1014
01:36:33,740 --> 01:36:40,620
maybe we've established an overlays zone in their standards, but the council ultimately would

1015
01:36:40,620 --> 01:36:42,840
have the decision-making authority to actually

1016
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:45,300
rezone and they don't have to be an application of

1017
01:36:45,300 --> 01:36:46,220
rezone, they have property.

1018
01:36:46,780 --> 01:36:51,280
So then you have that discretion to do so as well as

1019
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:55,740
discretion of adopting any standards or the code.

1020
01:36:56,340 --> 01:37:01,320
But just there's we just don't have the tools for

1021
01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:04,900
redevelopment being around our neighborhood activity centers.

1022
01:37:05,740 --> 01:37:07,940
Some improvements in our Karen's district.

1023
01:37:07,940 --> 01:37:16,260
the transestation area plans, the corridor is a missing middle housing on the transition

1024
01:37:16,260 --> 01:37:23,020
corridors or to allow flexibility of different housing types. We don't have those tools right

1025
01:37:23,020 --> 01:37:29,860
now and so those are directions coming straight from our general plan and so we want to have

1026
01:37:29,860 --> 01:37:36,720
those tools to implement it but ultimately the council has discretion in the future on those

1027
01:37:36,720 --> 01:37:41,220
reasons, when and if they happen, and also adoption of the code.

1028
01:37:41,460 --> 01:37:48,540
So just to emphasize that they are two different things, but we're at a loss right now of

1029
01:37:48,540 --> 01:37:56,520
things that the general plan speaks to, seeing how the city would grow or redevelop in

1030
01:37:56,520 --> 01:38:05,360
some areas, and that's the primary piece of the impetus for this project, and then the other

1031
01:38:05,360 --> 01:38:13,320
pieces are reorganizing and making it more compliant with state law, plain language and a better

1032
01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:19,680
organization easier to understand for the staff and the public and the decision makers.

1033
01:38:20,360 --> 01:38:33,200
In addition to that, Sandy is predominantly built out, and the code talks a lot about what

1034
01:38:33,200 --> 01:38:36,980
is called Greenfield Development, meaning vacant land that can be developed.

1035
01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:41,800
So there's some level of that that doesn't really exist in the city.

1036
01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:52,860
I've obviously there's pieces, but a level of infill code language to help guide those processes

1037
01:38:53,500 --> 01:38:59,220
and as we're talking about the neighborhood activity centers, as you transition from existing

1038
01:38:59,220 --> 01:39:06,120
to just the more intense around those corridors as it's referring to in the general plan.

1039
01:39:06,960 --> 01:39:09,600
Those transition areas become very important.

1040
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:11,540
How do you address those?

1041
01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:17,060
There's no zone, there's no co-piece currently in Sandy that addresses that.

1042
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:22,780
So those are some of the areas that are very critical to address with this code update.

1043
01:39:29,990 --> 01:39:31,690
I think Mr. Rakeley, you've had something?

1044
01:39:32,930 --> 01:39:37,810
I appreciate how you're trying to make this code more readable, the current codes a little bit of a sleeper.

1045
01:39:38,570 --> 01:39:40,850
I mean, just black and white and goes on forever.

1046
01:39:41,490 --> 01:39:50,490
You talked about putting it on cell phones and maybe the report you're coming to giving to us is it to be like a word document with graphics and stuff embedded in it.

1047
01:39:50,730 --> 01:39:58,210
And then the city will want to take that and then transfer it to the web requirements or will that be ready accessible.

1048
01:40:00,430 --> 01:40:07,950
Yeah, the code is already on the meeting code. And the meeting code has some ability for

1049
01:40:10,420 --> 01:40:16,720
phone usage, but some, as you get through that, some of those tables and things are very difficult to use.

1050
01:40:17,180 --> 01:40:30,000
So there's some of that that will clean up. Well, all of that that we're working to clean up. To answer the other question, if I understood it correctly, you were talking about the existing preliminary assessment.

1051
01:40:30,500 --> 01:40:41,940
I'm going to talk about using graphics and making more visual and I'm going to make sure that the graphics that you give in the report here can later be used by the city because there's some new ADA acquired.

1052
01:40:42,180 --> 01:40:48,000
That's coming out regarding federal government and the university where you're just going to do some stuff.

1053
01:40:49,020 --> 01:40:55,820
I'm just going to be sure that you didn't give us a report and then it turns out that the graphic you spent all this time on which a beautiful city can't use.

1054
01:40:55,820 --> 01:41:03,140
So, you know, everything we're doing is, does that format that we have could be easy to upload or something?

1055
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:19,440
Yeah, and we have graphics in the code now, but there's some inconsistencies, and there can be improvements on that, and so this project will help to add more graphics, or advise, or place some of the existing graphics,

1056
01:41:19,440 --> 01:41:27,780
because that helps explain the standard and using table format, where a program can also

1057
01:41:27,780 --> 01:41:30,600
help simplify the rules.

1058
01:41:30,940 --> 01:41:31,700
Yeah, I'd like that.

1059
01:41:31,840 --> 01:41:35,820
I mean, I think people are into graphics and they like video and they like stuff like that.

1060
01:41:35,820 --> 01:41:37,560
I just want to be sure that the 88 compliant.

1061
01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:42,840
So while you put all this together, and then the city's got to put it into a website.

1062
01:41:43,820 --> 01:41:44,100
Right.

1063
01:41:44,100 --> 01:42:02,360
And for those things that, you know, technically or legally, that we need to coordinate with our city recorder, we're absolutely doing that, and speaking, coordinating all the way to make sure that we're meeting each other's needs and all of it.

1064
01:42:05,460 --> 01:42:06,540
Any other questions?

1065
01:42:08,850 --> 01:42:10,270
None on the site either.

1066
01:42:10,790 --> 01:42:13,090
Look at you. You were that thorough.

1067
01:42:13,830 --> 01:42:16,050
I will just add quick comments.

1068
01:42:16,930 --> 01:42:18,590
I very much appreciate the move.

1069
01:42:18,730 --> 01:42:20,690
And I think this echoes a little bit of what you said.

1070
01:42:21,270 --> 01:42:24,090
The move to visualization, simplification,

1071
01:42:24,930 --> 01:42:29,510
everyday language, making everything more accessible,

1072
01:42:30,110 --> 01:42:32,810
understandable, and I love predictable.

1073
01:42:34,170 --> 01:42:38,850
I understand that there will always be some analysis, et cetera,

1074
01:42:39,510 --> 01:42:42,610
but we become a city that is, you know,

1075
01:42:42,610 --> 01:42:47,510
We're attractive to work with when people have things they can count on.

1076
01:42:47,830 --> 01:42:51,990
There is some level of predictability, and I appreciate that.

1077
01:42:51,990 --> 01:42:54,610
That's been one of the things we've been talking about for quite a while,

1078
01:42:55,110 --> 01:43:00,090
is what barriers can we remove so that things can move forward quickly

1079
01:43:00,090 --> 01:43:03,170
and we get more homeowners, for example, and Sandy.

1080
01:43:04,010 --> 01:43:06,230
Thank you for all of that.

1081
01:43:06,850 --> 01:43:08,730
I think we are done.

1082
01:43:08,930 --> 01:43:10,030
Thank you so much.

1083
01:43:10,590 --> 01:43:11,970
Thank you for joining us.

1084
01:43:16,860 --> 01:43:37,500
All right, so that was item number two, okay, and we have already held items 3, 4, and 5, so I am going to move us on ahead to item number six, a few notes for the public, thank you everyone who was a part of that, we very much appreciate you.

1085
01:43:38,380 --> 01:43:45,500
So with this discussion, can you engage recognizing that it is actually multiple items all tied together?

1086
01:43:46,540 --> 01:43:52,780
We are actually going to take the items concurrently as my understanding, Mr. Warner, including public comment, correct?

1087
01:43:53,420 --> 01:43:59,220
So you'll present. We've got Mr. Cadel ready to speak to the development agreement.

1088
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:11,940
We're going to, as a council, you know, really understand the development agreement before we move forward on anything else because ultimately we need to make a decision on that first.

1089
01:44:12,300 --> 01:44:14,020
Is my understanding Mr. Prado, is that correct?

1090
01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:19,860
What I would suggest is before you amend the general plan before you adopt the reason.

1091
01:44:20,480 --> 01:44:27,380
If you decide to do that, you should probably have a good feeling about the development agreement, right? Do you want to move forward with that?

1092
01:44:27,380 --> 01:44:34,020
If you don't, and there's no reason to adopt the others unless you plan on doing so without adopting the development agreement.

1093
01:44:35,740 --> 01:44:40,300
All right. Thank you for that guidance. So I am going to turn over to Mr. Warden.

1094
01:44:44,960 --> 01:44:47,280
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good evening again, Council.

1095
01:44:49,060 --> 01:44:55,480
You just had 50% of what I was going to talk about, had a discussion about 50% of what I was going to talk about.

1096
01:44:55,660 --> 01:44:56,800
So thank you.

1097
01:44:57,560 --> 01:44:59,860
items number six and seven on the agenda

1098
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:22,400
Our two items representing two applications. We have three potential motions, but it's all one project. So I think it's wise to open up both items have the discussion and I'll get into what Dustin was talking about as well and maybe lay out the foundation of why we would be suggesting that.

1099
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:24,740
Just as a background,

1100
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:37,700
this item came to the City Council twice already once on January 7th

1101
01:45:37,700 --> 01:45:46,500
or January July 7th and once on July 14th and at that time we also had two items, the

1102
01:45:46,500 --> 01:45:48,400
first item was the general plan amendment

1103
01:45:52,150 --> 01:45:56,570
and there was some if you recall there was some

1104
01:45:56,570 --> 01:45:58,610
discussion about how to handle these two items.

1105
01:45:59,210 --> 01:46:02,370
There was a motion to approve the general climate amendment.

1106
01:46:03,330 --> 01:46:07,090
The general climate amendment is requesting that the institutional future

1107
01:46:07,090 --> 01:46:10,270
land use designation be changed to the medium density.

1108
01:46:11,510 --> 01:46:13,510
The future land use designation.

1109
01:46:14,470 --> 01:46:18,550
That would be consistent with the zone that the applicant is requesting and

1110
01:46:18,550 --> 01:46:21,690
would be consistent with the majority of the surrounding area.

1111
01:46:23,370 --> 01:46:46,170
The Council made a motion to approve that General Fund Amendment that vote was three to three so failed due to a tie and the Council's direction was to bring that back for reconsideration when the reason came back to you.

1112
01:46:46,170 --> 01:46:50,170
And in that meeting on the 14th of July, we then went into the

1113
01:46:51,730 --> 01:46:57,170
Reson application and there was quite a bit of discussion about

1114
01:46:57,770 --> 01:47:00,190
bringing back a development agreement.

1115
01:47:01,970 --> 01:47:07,370
The council directed the council, did make a motion associated with that

1116
01:47:07,370 --> 01:47:07,650
item.

1117
01:47:07,950 --> 01:47:13,810
The motion basically was directing staff, the council attorney,

1118
01:47:13,810 --> 01:47:20,710
city turns office to prepare development agreement and bring it back and that

1119
01:47:20,710 --> 01:47:25,810
motion was approved six to zero. So just a reminder the

1120
01:47:25,810 --> 01:47:32,950
reason is requesting that the zoning on the proper to be changed from the R18

1121
01:47:32,950 --> 01:47:40,470
zone to the PUD12 zone and the intended project there is a town home project of

1122
01:47:40,470 --> 01:47:50,490
86 units. And so, with that, a development agreement has been prepared. Mr. Cadel provided

1123
01:47:50,490 --> 01:47:56,010
an memo that provided some insights into that document.

1124
01:47:58,230 --> 01:48:02,470
As Dustin mentioned, it is our,

1125
01:48:02,590 --> 01:48:07,270
I think, well, as we've talked, that would be our joint recommendation is that you have

1126
01:48:07,270 --> 01:48:12,070
discussion about the development agreement. Determine if you're comfortable where that is.

1127
01:48:12,570 --> 01:48:20,570
And if so, we would recommend, I would recommend the following order for motions. First

1128
01:48:20,570 --> 01:48:26,810
of all, ordinance 26-52 is the ordinance that would approve the reason. That ordinance

1129
01:48:26,810 --> 01:48:32,950
specifically ties the development agreement to that decision as a material, as Mr. Kadeel

1130
01:48:32,950 --> 01:48:36,910
states it as a material component in your consideration of the

1131
01:48:36,910 --> 01:48:41,690
result. And so the development agreement is tied to ordinance 26-52,

1132
01:48:42,250 --> 01:48:47,650
but ordinance 26-52 is the document that would

1133
01:48:47,650 --> 01:48:51,690
rezone the property subject to that development agreement.

1134
01:48:52,570 --> 01:48:58,150
Now resolution 26-84C is the document that

1135
01:48:58,150 --> 01:49:01,030
officially approves the development agreement

1136
01:49:01,030 --> 01:49:03,730
and authorizes the mayor to sign that agreement.

1137
01:49:03,970 --> 01:49:05,190
So they're kind of tied together.

1138
01:49:05,650 --> 01:49:08,710
The resolution to approve the development agreement

1139
01:49:08,710 --> 01:49:10,750
actually refers to the development agreement

1140
01:49:10,750 --> 01:49:13,190
that's attached to the ordinance for the reason.

1141
01:49:13,830 --> 01:49:15,450
So they aren't linked together.

1142
01:49:16,690 --> 01:49:19,150
If you're not comfortable with the development agreement

1143
01:49:19,150 --> 01:49:21,570
if ordinance 26-52 fails,

1144
01:49:22,290 --> 01:49:25,150
I don't know that there's a whole lot of point

1145
01:49:25,150 --> 01:49:27,130
in moving forward with the other two motions.

1146
01:49:27,450 --> 01:49:29,890
Resolution 26-84C.

1147
01:49:29,890 --> 01:49:33,990
And then the final ordinance, which is ordinance 26-51,

1148
01:49:34,730 --> 01:49:38,730
which would approve the General Plan amendment

1149
01:49:38,730 --> 01:49:41,730
amending, revising the Future Lightest Map

1150
01:49:41,730 --> 01:49:45,430
for the subject property from institutional

1151
01:49:45,430 --> 01:49:46,830
to meeting the density neighborhood.

1152
01:49:47,630 --> 01:49:49,210
So again, one project,

1153
01:49:51,610 --> 01:49:53,810
two applications, three potential motions,

1154
01:49:55,970 --> 01:49:59,250
and I failed to mention subject properties 825

1155
01:49:59,250 --> 01:49:59,810
of ease.

1156
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:12,540
Ninety eighty-five south, proxious seven point two, acres. Again, general unemployment application would re-designate the subject property for institutional, the meeting, density, neighborhood.

1157
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:24,120
The re-zone application would re-zone our property from our one eight to P U D 12, and as the ordinance is written, it would tie in that development agreement.

1158
01:50:25,240 --> 01:50:31,140
So with that staff is available for questions, I know the Mr. Cadela is prepared to address the development agreement.

1159
01:50:32,360 --> 01:50:37,500
Well done, Mr. Warner. I know this once got a lot of layers, so thank you for that.

1160
01:50:38,260 --> 01:50:46,960
All right, and because we've been given that guidance, Council, I'd recommend we start with the development agreement, perhaps if we have questions on that.

1161
01:50:46,960 --> 01:50:57,840
I'm seeing nods or does that sound, I know but I'm asking if that's okay if we start with just folks, you know, the development agreement and ask questions, et cetera, have deliberation.

1162
01:50:59,640 --> 01:51:08,300
I just have one question, so Jake, you're suggesting taking the ordinances out of order?

1163
01:51:09,020 --> 01:51:17,580
Yeah, we're recommending we do it backwards from the order in the agenda is, well, we typically

1164
01:51:17,580 --> 01:51:23,380
would like to see and maybe from a best practice would be the order that we would recommend,

1165
01:51:24,980 --> 01:51:29,920
but with where we're at, we are recommending that we first address the development agreement,

1166
01:51:30,440 --> 01:51:34,620
and if you're not comfortable with that, if we need to do more work there, there's really no point

1167
01:51:34,620 --> 01:51:37,620
do in the other things.

1168
01:51:37,880 --> 01:51:39,360
Good clarifying question.

1169
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:40,080
All right.

1170
01:51:40,200 --> 01:51:42,300
So, Michelle, can you have a question about the development?

1171
01:51:42,560 --> 01:51:43,340
No, no.

1172
01:51:45,080 --> 01:51:47,060
Are there any questions about the development agreement?

1173
01:51:49,080 --> 01:51:49,580
Mr. Cadale.

1174
01:51:49,740 --> 01:51:53,340
Is there anything you would like to just summarize for us?

1175
01:51:53,540 --> 01:51:54,480
I'm happy to do that, Madam.

1176
01:51:54,540 --> 01:51:54,900
Thank you.

1177
01:51:55,120 --> 01:51:56,080
Would you like me to come down?

1178
01:51:56,620 --> 01:51:57,200
Your car.

1179
01:51:57,440 --> 01:51:57,820
I'm like you.

1180
01:51:58,140 --> 01:51:59,040
Well, maybe I'll just come down.

1181
01:51:59,100 --> 01:51:59,380
Okay.

1182
01:52:11,780 --> 01:52:12,600
Good evening, Madam Chair.

1183
01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:13,480
Members of the Council.

1184
01:52:13,480 --> 01:52:22,860
Mayor, she's here, professional staff at all, a couple of weeks ago that Council first

1185
01:52:22,860 --> 01:52:24,960
did a first reading on this particular project.

1186
01:52:25,860 --> 01:52:31,320
It's one of the alter egos of the Boyer Company was coming in and wanted to get a

1187
01:52:31,320 --> 01:52:37,120
reason of some property owned by the Kang and school district in order to put some multi-family

1188
01:52:37,120 --> 01:52:40,500
property, a multi-family project in that particular area.

1189
01:52:41,080 --> 01:52:47,680
You cast me, one of the questions you asked is the question that City Council's across the State of Utah are asking is,

1190
01:52:48,320 --> 01:52:53,580
if somebody is showing us the bright and shiny object that they're going to build in our community,

1191
01:52:54,160 --> 01:52:57,840
and we think it's wonderful, and it's bright and shiny, and we would love to have it.

1192
01:52:57,840 --> 01:52:59,180
And all we have to do is this reason.

1193
01:53:00,760 --> 01:53:06,860
And you do the reason, you know, and you think you're getting the Ferrari and then you go show something, right?

1194
01:53:07,480 --> 01:53:13,120
A lot of that has to do with what your zone is and make sure your zone is correct, but we're

1195
01:53:13,120 --> 01:53:18,640
talking about here is one of the tools that legislative bodies can use in order to ensure

1196
01:53:19,400 --> 01:53:26,500
that they're getting what they bargain for and how it really works is is that developer

1197
01:53:27,100 --> 01:53:32,980
and the city come to terms and the developer agrees to exchange for getting certain development

1198
01:53:32,980 --> 01:53:36,600
rights and vested rights and interests that are very, very important to them.

1199
01:53:37,260 --> 01:53:41,980
They agree to do certain things in conditions under a contract that makes us feel

1200
01:53:41,980 --> 01:53:43,340
a bit more comfortable about the project.

1201
01:53:43,440 --> 01:53:45,420
That's essentially really what it is.

1202
01:53:46,040 --> 01:53:54,180
And so, a pursuant to your council, Jim Wright and I, Jim, represents the applicant and

1203
01:53:54,180 --> 01:54:00,360
Lynn worked on the project sort of, Jim and I sort of took the first crack at it.

1204
01:54:00,360 --> 01:54:04,320
what's we sort of had it ready, we said to Lynn who had some really good feedback too.

1205
01:54:04,640 --> 01:54:11,560
And so the document that you're seeing is a project with legal counsel for Boyer,

1206
01:54:11,780 --> 01:54:16,280
the City Attorney's Office, and me. And so I'm comfortable with the draft,

1207
01:54:17,060 --> 01:54:23,280
and I know Lynn wouldn't have forward along if he was it. Just a couple of just a flyover in terms

1208
01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:25,520
of what it does.

1209
01:54:26,280 --> 01:54:31,020
What this essentially does is that it gives the developer this

1210
01:54:31,020 --> 01:54:34,520
rights that, and it's both the benefit and the burden

1211
01:54:34,520 --> 01:54:37,820
that runs with the land, because it's directly recorded.

1212
01:54:39,020 --> 01:54:42,420
So if the property changes hands, what

1213
01:54:42,420 --> 01:54:45,600
needs to be built is what's in that development agreement.

1214
01:54:47,400 --> 01:54:50,080
There are certain protections in that document

1215
01:54:50,080 --> 01:54:55,940
concerning how the project might, it can't really be,

1216
01:54:55,940 --> 01:54:59,240
materially different than what is articulated in that document.

1217
01:55:01,380 --> 01:55:17,080
There's a specific provision that these are going to be forced sale units, and talking to the applicant, because they just don't know how many they're going to be able to move, we agreed and principle to turn.

1218
01:55:17,200 --> 01:55:24,060
I mean, obviously, you have your legislative discretion, whatever you decide is ultimately to you. But what the development agreement basically says,

1219
01:55:24,060 --> 01:55:35,120
17 of those units can be rental units, but Boyer has every intention of selling these and having them be owner occupied.

1220
01:55:36,180 --> 01:55:41,680
They are not planning on being in the landlord business and keeping these for rental units.

1221
01:55:42,620 --> 01:55:51,660
But they needed the 20% in order to, because they're just not sure if they're going to be able to move them all once they're going to be able to cab them on the market if they're not being sold.

1222
01:55:52,740 --> 01:56:01,900
So that's why there's the 17 that represents 20% and there's a provision in there that's

1223
01:56:01,900 --> 01:56:08,400
important that if anybody who's ever paid attention to some litigation that happened

1224
01:56:08,400 --> 01:56:12,400
out in the tool of county with the development agreement, you'll always know all the development

1225
01:56:12,400 --> 01:56:19,120
agreements now say no damages, they can only see for specific performance, we include that provision.

1226
01:56:19,120 --> 01:56:25,200
So essentially what it does is it just tells the developer that they can do it, they can

1227
01:56:25,200 --> 01:56:28,760
do the project, and it says that we're going to get the kind of project that we bargain

1228
01:56:28,760 --> 01:56:29,560
for.

1229
01:56:29,880 --> 01:56:35,040
This particular development agreement means that it still goes for planning and it still goes

1230
01:56:35,040 --> 01:56:35,700
through the PC.

1231
01:56:36,540 --> 01:56:41,620
So we're not circumventing them, it's still got to go through that process, but when it hits

1232
01:56:41,620 --> 01:56:48,500
that application hits the applying department's desk, it's got to be within the confines

1233
01:56:48,500 --> 01:56:51,240
of what you tell them in these documents.

1234
01:56:52,120 --> 01:56:55,540
Then, when the PC looks at it, they can approve it,

1235
01:56:55,540 --> 01:56:58,520
but it has to be within the confines of this document too.

1236
01:56:59,260 --> 01:57:03,700
So it's a tool to be able to, you wanted to get to make sure

1237
01:57:03,700 --> 01:57:05,260
that we work having more rentals,

1238
01:57:05,460 --> 01:57:07,600
so not particularly area, this should do that.

1239
01:57:08,040 --> 01:57:09,720
Let me tell you what it does not do.

1240
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:14,540
What it does not do is it doesn't limit, say,

1241
01:57:14,660 --> 01:57:16,480
there's somebody who buys one of these units,

1242
01:57:17,180 --> 01:57:18,420
and say in five years from now,

1243
01:57:18,420 --> 01:57:21,480
They decide it's time for them to move up and by a home,

1244
01:57:22,520 --> 01:57:26,440
it does not prevent that person who owns it from leasing it.

1245
01:57:27,660 --> 01:57:31,480
Even if Boyer is leasing 17 of them.

1246
01:57:32,340 --> 01:57:35,000
Individuals could still lease their properties.

1247
01:57:35,300 --> 01:57:38,160
So there isn't a degree stretch,

1248
01:57:38,180 --> 01:57:42,840
which is something that Councilmember Nichol asked about.

1249
01:57:43,180 --> 01:57:44,940
And it isn't because they didn't ask.

1250
01:57:45,520 --> 01:57:51,760
They felt like that, in fact, that was the first thing that Jim and I talked about outside

1251
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:56,380
the door, the night of the meeting that this was discussed on the first reading, is that

1252
01:57:56,380 --> 01:57:58,680
that is very, very difficult for them to do.

1253
01:57:59,800 --> 01:58:04,580
And so that, if that's very important to you, Council Member Nabeel, you'll have to decide

1254
01:58:04,580 --> 01:58:05,720
how you wish to vote.

1255
01:58:07,060 --> 01:58:12,940
I know that there was also the issue, Council Member Sharkey asked for some maybe some additional

1256
01:58:12,940 --> 01:58:20,520
green space in there, that hasn't changed either. But what is significantly better is the fact

1257
01:58:20,520 --> 01:58:25,700
that if you didn't have this agreement in place and you didn't approve it, it would mean

1258
01:58:25,700 --> 01:58:30,720
that there's a zone change and then everything that could be built and that zone could be built

1259
01:58:30,720 --> 01:58:36,180
there. And that is not true if you approve this. Do you have any questions for me?

1260
01:58:37,360 --> 01:58:42,220
Thank you for that. That excellent overview. Questions, council. This nickel?

1261
01:58:46,770 --> 01:58:53,770
No, it's about the CC&Rs or the Homeowners Association.

1262
01:58:54,610 --> 01:58:55,910
Yes. Who sets that up?

1263
01:58:57,350 --> 01:59:01,490
The, basically, the Boyer Company is probably the company that they'll create.

1264
01:59:01,690 --> 01:59:04,450
I'm sure like a limited liability company will.

1265
01:59:04,570 --> 01:59:08,490
They'll originally set up those, those as the owner will.

1266
01:59:08,490 --> 01:59:22,670
So they set up the HOA, the documents that the HOA creates are the set of CCNRs, and limiting conditions of what owners can do, right?

1267
01:59:23,330 --> 01:59:23,950
Generally yes.

1268
01:59:25,670 --> 01:59:33,930
That's what I was hoping they could put a limit on more than 20% of any time could be rented.

1269
01:59:34,710 --> 01:59:36,010
That's what I was hoping for.

1270
01:59:36,010 --> 01:59:59,950
And I pushed for that too, I started, you know, we've gone pretty quickly from me pushing on the, um, you know, I totally, I see, but that was, so that would be, that would be the time that that took place when the creation of that, so technically they can put that in, they don't want to, because it's a deep restriction that could affect value, because values are affected by disease.

1271
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:24,680
Do you understand the issue perfectly? Just so you know that was something that I asked them about multiple times in the conversation. I included it in the draft of the document that I sent to them. Jim and I talked about it on the phone and he explained to me that that would make it very difficult for them to accomplish what they want to accomplish. I understand that.

1272
02:00:26,620 --> 02:00:31,800
If that's I think I think and I don't want to put words in there mouth, but I think from my perspective

1273
02:00:31,800 --> 02:00:39,580
I got him to move as far as they were willing to move on the things that are willing to move on and now the next question is is that movement far enough for you

1274
02:00:40,260 --> 02:00:45,400
But I do want you to know that I did do the very thing that you're asking me about

1275
02:00:46,300 --> 02:00:49,200
Yeah, I was really persuasive, but there's still tell me now

1276
02:00:49,200 --> 02:00:51,540
I think that's some time to win some time.

1277
02:00:52,380 --> 02:00:53,140
That's all my question.

1278
02:00:53,360 --> 02:00:54,220
Thank you.

1279
02:00:55,300 --> 02:00:56,060
I'm checking.

1280
02:00:58,800 --> 02:00:59,900
I don't believe so.

1281
02:01:00,220 --> 02:01:00,780
Thank you for that.

1282
02:01:02,820 --> 02:01:07,460
So with that discussion over, I'll bring it back to the council for,

1283
02:01:08,040 --> 02:01:12,360
because we did feel like the first thing to consider was the development agreement.

1284
02:01:17,170 --> 02:01:22,310
Yeah, we can take it now, or we can take it after we have our own discussion.

1285
02:01:22,310 --> 02:01:23,870
because we got our question.

1286
02:01:24,690 --> 02:01:25,770
I can do it either way.

1287
02:01:26,210 --> 02:01:27,830
Do we want to have our discussion or take?

1288
02:01:27,950 --> 02:01:29,690
It will be before we vote for sure.

1289
02:01:30,930 --> 02:01:32,630
Do you want to hear from public and then we discuss?

1290
02:01:33,790 --> 02:01:33,990
All right.

1291
02:01:34,190 --> 02:01:35,970
We do have one card on this item.

1292
02:01:36,230 --> 02:01:37,590
It's a very patient waiting.

1293
02:01:38,570 --> 02:01:41,630
So Julie Hepworth, this is the item you want to kiss.

1294
02:01:41,710 --> 02:01:42,590
Did I say it wrong?

1295
02:01:44,130 --> 02:01:46,670
Well, we're taking public comment on.

1296
02:01:46,670 --> 02:01:47,430
No, Madam Chair.

1297
02:01:48,530 --> 02:01:50,790
Or on items number six and number seven.

1298
02:01:50,790 --> 02:02:01,050
Ah, see? Still not ready for you. I was thinking 6, 7 and 8. My apologies. That we are merging 3, not 2. We'll get there.

1299
02:02:01,510 --> 02:02:12,650
Okay, so then I do not have any blue cards on these two. We're taking 6 and 7 together. So with that we'll, I'm looking around. No one's jumping up. Let's go ahead and check online, please.

1300
02:02:12,650 --> 02:02:19,450
Thank you, Madam Chair. If you're joining us virtually this evening via Zoom and you would like to comment on

1301
02:02:20,330 --> 02:02:26,390
items number six or items number seven on this evening's agendas related to the

1302
02:02:26,390 --> 02:02:33,030
Canyon Gate General Plan Amendment and the Canyon Gate Reson. Go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen. Now

1303
02:02:33,030 --> 02:02:36,670
I'll call your name in the order in which you raise your hand and you'll have three minutes.

1304
02:02:55,620 --> 02:02:56,780
Not seeing any hands raised Madam Chair.

1305
02:02:56,780 --> 02:02:59,400
Okay, I'll go ahead and close public item.

1306
02:02:59,660 --> 02:03:04,340
I have a public comment on this item and come back for discussion.

1307
02:03:04,660 --> 02:03:07,220
Madam Jerry, do you have one quick question for Mr. Cadet?

1308
02:03:07,260 --> 02:03:07,740
Mr. Cadet.

1309
02:03:07,820 --> 02:03:09,000
I forgot to ask.

1310
02:03:09,400 --> 02:03:16,180
What is with the December 31st, 2021-27 date that seems far off to me?

1311
02:03:17,360 --> 02:03:18,100
It's interesting.

1312
02:03:18,500 --> 02:03:25,740
I think it was actually Linda suggested that date that was actually moving it up because I had

1313
02:03:25,740 --> 02:03:31,040
just moral but ended, right? Just to allow them to, for their business, according to their business needs,

1314
02:03:31,540 --> 02:03:35,540
and it's actually lens office that thought we needed to get a date in there and get them moved up.

1315
02:03:36,020 --> 02:03:42,200
And it was basically a negotiated date. And so just so you know, I was okay with the being more open and

1316
02:03:42,200 --> 02:03:45,320
a lens that we needed to get a date and needs to be, needs to be this.

1317
02:03:45,560 --> 02:03:49,520
I think it actually needs to be sooner. Yeah. But that was just,

1318
02:03:49,520 --> 02:03:52,860
maybe you could ask the, maybe you could ask the applicant about that. Yeah, it's okay.

1319
02:03:52,860 --> 02:03:53,580
Thank you.

1320
02:03:55,760 --> 02:04:01,580
Madam Chair, I'm ready with a motion to deny the request for Kenyan gate development

1321
02:04:01,580 --> 02:04:02,300
agreement.

1322
02:04:02,800 --> 02:04:02,920
Second.

1323
02:04:04,660 --> 02:04:04,940
Okay.

1324
02:04:04,980 --> 02:04:06,560
We have a motion and a second.

1325
02:04:06,700 --> 02:04:07,760
Discussion on the motion.

1326
02:04:12,700 --> 02:04:13,120
I'll start.

1327
02:04:14,440 --> 02:04:17,680
I support the development agreement.

1328
02:04:17,940 --> 02:04:24,600
I think it's, we've demonstrated this, an appropriate degree.

1329
02:04:24,820 --> 02:04:25,960
I believe I'm back and forth.

1330
02:04:25,960 --> 02:04:30,340
I think this is the right use for this property.

1331
02:04:30,500 --> 02:04:31,880
I think there's a lot of reasons why.

1332
02:04:32,080 --> 02:04:33,460
I've shared it in previous conversations,

1333
02:04:34,240 --> 02:04:36,340
so I'll just keep it short and simple.

1334
02:04:37,280 --> 02:04:39,880
I appreciate the negotiation back and forth.

1335
02:04:39,880 --> 02:04:42,720
I appreciate frankly not everyone's even willing

1336
02:04:42,720 --> 02:04:43,880
to do a development agreement.

1337
02:04:44,140 --> 02:04:46,780
So you could have said no to a development agreement entirely.

1338
02:04:46,840 --> 02:04:52,860
I think it allows us to have more kind of to point

1339
02:04:52,860 --> 02:04:56,360
to what Mr. Cadel said, a little more guidance

1340
02:04:56,360 --> 02:04:57,700
and what is allowed here.

1341
02:04:58,040 --> 02:04:59,960
So I will not be able to support the...

1342
02:05:00,050 --> 02:05:06,030
What did you call it, the denial? That will not get it there. Other comments?

1343
02:05:09,840 --> 02:05:10,440
Are you misturkey?

1344
02:05:13,930 --> 02:05:20,110
Tonight is difficult for me. I struggled with this one, too. I struggled with how to explain what my vote will be on this one.

1345
02:05:20,210 --> 02:05:28,770
But I think it's important for me to tell the boy or company and for the community development department. Why I'm voting the way I'm voting?

1346
02:05:30,150 --> 02:05:33,510
I'm going to vote no, I'm going to vote yes to the motion.

1347
02:05:35,410 --> 02:05:41,010
But not because I don't like the development agreement, it's because I don't like the project.

1348
02:05:43,660 --> 02:05:45,420
So, the DEED restrictions.

1349
02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:52,560
I think DEED restrictions are mandatory if what we're doing is affordable housing and

1350
02:05:52,560 --> 02:05:57,340
we've got public money supporting the project.

1351
02:05:57,340 --> 02:06:00,720
I think deed restrictions under those conditions are mandatory.

1352
02:06:02,340 --> 02:06:08,380
Under this condition, I am accepting of the fact that the boy or company

1353
02:06:08,380 --> 02:06:12,740
doesn't feel like they want to go to that length either in terms of a deed restriction

1354
02:06:12,740 --> 02:06:15,220
or in terms of HOA requirements.

1355
02:06:18,460 --> 02:06:25,480
But it's the project that I'm not supportive of and so I'll get into that

1356
02:06:25,480 --> 02:06:30,340
when we move on to the next thing, but I just didn't want my vote to be misunderstood

1357
02:06:30,920 --> 02:06:35,720
because I think it's important. We will be having more development agreements and my

1358
02:06:35,720 --> 02:06:41,800
problem isn't with this development agreement. It's with the project. Thank you.

1359
02:06:49,840 --> 02:06:53,740
Okay, I don't think we have any more discussions. We have, oh yes, we do. Sorry, Ms. Nickel.

1360
02:06:55,020 --> 02:07:00,840
I'm kind of the opposite. I love the project. It's the fact that we can't do the deep

1361
02:07:00,840 --> 02:07:07,520
restriction is my hang up with that because our community wants ownership opportunities

1362
02:07:08,040 --> 02:07:12,960
not more rentals and they've made that very clear. So that's it. I love the project but we

1363
02:07:12,960 --> 02:07:15,480
just couldn't meet on that one little part.

1364
02:07:18,170 --> 02:07:20,170
So the motion, are you looking for who the

1365
02:07:20,170 --> 02:07:23,850
The motion was misnical, and the Christians who read the second.

1366
02:07:25,250 --> 02:07:28,750
So I think we've exhausted our discussion, so we'll do a roll call, though, please.

1367
02:07:29,410 --> 02:07:31,870
And, though, again, do you clarify the motion?

1368
02:07:32,790 --> 02:07:34,630
Was that correct when we did it?

1369
02:07:35,170 --> 02:07:37,150
Well, it was, I mean, it's okay.

1370
02:07:37,270 --> 02:07:39,850
I mean, no one made a motion to approve it.

1371
02:07:40,110 --> 02:07:42,370
You made a motion to disallow it.

1372
02:07:42,750 --> 02:07:46,910
If that's motion fails, someone could make a motion to approve it.

1373
02:07:46,910 --> 02:07:50,530
which would is what we're required to go for, but it's still problem.

1374
02:07:51,770 --> 02:07:52,990
We're okay if you, that's the solution.

1375
02:07:54,150 --> 02:07:57,850
I mean, I would always suggest avoiding motions to the negative,

1376
02:07:58,130 --> 02:07:59,910
right, even if you don't want something to pass,

1377
02:08:00,050 --> 02:08:01,890
you just vote no if you don't want it to pass.

1378
02:08:01,930 --> 02:08:04,730
It makes more sense to motion to approve something

1379
02:08:04,730 --> 02:08:05,610
whether it's in the discipline.

1380
02:08:06,110 --> 02:08:07,830
Nonetheless, that's the motion that's been made.

1381
02:08:08,410 --> 02:08:14,910
My one question with the, is the, is the motion to deny specific

1382
02:08:14,910 --> 02:08:22,570
to one of the resolutions or ordinances, or is it to all three, there's a resolution, there's an

1383
02:08:22,570 --> 02:08:25,790
ordinance that all three since they're connected.

1384
02:08:26,050 --> 02:08:34,710
So ordinance that, 2651, ordinance 2652, and resolution 26-84c for the record.

1385
02:08:38,320 --> 02:08:39,680
Do you have the clarity of the image Edwards?

1386
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:41,020
Okay.

1387
02:08:41,020 --> 02:08:41,300
Yes.

1388
02:08:41,400 --> 02:08:42,200
Thank you.

1389
02:08:42,440 --> 02:08:42,800
We'll do.

1390
02:08:42,800 --> 02:08:44,600
You don't want to do that.

1391
02:08:46,540 --> 02:08:49,100
Well, we sort of took public comment.

1392
02:08:49,720 --> 02:08:51,400
I should have, I should have made it.

1393
02:08:51,620 --> 02:08:52,700
But that's the applicant.

1394
02:08:53,100 --> 02:08:53,580
I know.

1395
02:08:53,960 --> 02:08:54,160
Oh, OK.

1396
02:08:54,360 --> 02:08:54,580
OK.

1397
02:08:54,740 --> 02:08:59,040
But yes, if you're asking, I mean, we have heard from you

1398
02:08:59,040 --> 02:08:59,760
on Preusifications.

1399
02:08:59,940 --> 02:09:02,240
Do you have new information to share with us this evening?

1400
02:09:02,520 --> 02:09:02,820
Yeah.

1401
02:09:04,320 --> 02:09:04,800
OK.

1402
02:09:04,800 --> 02:09:07,300
If you're open to it, I mean, we have

1403
02:09:09,770 --> 02:09:09,950
a second.

1404
02:09:09,950 --> 02:09:11,270
We're not yet voting.

1405
02:09:11,810 --> 02:09:12,610
We have a motion.

1406
02:09:12,910 --> 02:09:15,050
We have a second, but we've not yet voted on the motion.

1407
02:09:15,050 --> 02:09:16,050
And so, absolutely.

1408
02:09:16,210 --> 02:09:17,510
No, thank you.

1409
02:09:17,590 --> 02:09:18,110
We'll keep it brief.

1410
02:09:18,270 --> 02:09:24,930
I appreciate the feedback and, you know, Kudos to Tracy and to Lynn for working.

1411
02:09:24,930 --> 02:09:29,730
We spent a lot of time on this and went back and forth and Tracy is not understating his

1412
02:09:29,730 --> 02:09:30,090
position.

1413
02:09:30,470 --> 02:09:32,350
He was very adamant about that.

1414
02:09:32,350 --> 02:09:35,110
And we did have it linked the conversations about that.

1415
02:09:36,250 --> 02:09:40,930
The challenge that we have or a couple of fold, we've got to finance this project

1416
02:09:40,930 --> 02:09:43,870
and finance and becomes very, very difficult with the restrictions.

1417
02:09:43,870 --> 02:09:51,890
And also, we have a underlying land owner in the Canyon School of District that owns the property.

1418
02:09:52,150 --> 02:09:53,910
We'll own the project if we go away.

1419
02:09:55,570 --> 02:09:57,250
And so, in sharing this information with them,

1420
02:09:57,250 --> 02:09:59,090
dedertrictions were very challenging.

1421
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:05,960
For the project, in an of a whole weather voyeur does it or anyone else does it. One more item to answer

1422
02:10:05,960 --> 02:10:13,000
question, council member Nichol, about the rental provision and restricting that. We heard you loud

1423
02:10:13,000 --> 02:10:20,640
and clear on the rental restrictions. We're okay with that as the Tracy alluded to. Our plan is to sell them all. It doesn't

1424
02:10:20,640 --> 02:10:25,540
really make sense for us to rent 17 of them in there. It's nice to have that as an option should the market

1425
02:10:25,540 --> 02:10:30,300
change, and with interest rates going to 7%, it may be a little bit challenging to move

1426
02:10:30,300 --> 02:10:34,280
them at the velocity that we want to move them. So it may help us to be able to rent

1427
02:10:35,180 --> 02:10:40,340
some, you know, during the cell season, just to, you know, kind of smooth out cash flows,

1428
02:10:40,680 --> 02:10:47,020
but our plan is to sell them all as to the de-distriction, if what we've found in other

1429
02:10:47,020 --> 02:10:51,920
communities when we have an HOA managing and restricting rentals, that becomes very

1430
02:10:51,920 --> 02:10:53,340
for property owners.

1431
02:10:54,060 --> 02:10:56,840
There's property rights, they expect certain property rights

1432
02:10:56,840 --> 02:11:00,080
when they purchase property, and so that will be very difficult

1433
02:11:00,080 --> 02:11:00,720
for them.

1434
02:11:00,720 --> 02:11:03,900
If there's been in $500 to $600,000 on a home

1435
02:11:03,900 --> 02:11:05,620
to have a restriction on the property,

1436
02:11:06,760 --> 02:11:09,360
most of them probably won't end up renting it,

1437
02:11:09,640 --> 02:11:10,400
but with their lender,

1438
02:11:11,240 --> 02:11:13,880
investment of capital, they have that restriction on the property

1439
02:11:13,880 --> 02:11:16,000
right, it becomes very hard to sell those.

1440
02:11:16,680 --> 02:11:19,000
And then the second condition to that is just

1441
02:11:19,000 --> 02:11:26,120
The market will dictate what becomes of these as I alluded these will be between five and six hundred thousand dollar pound homes

1442
02:11:26,120 --> 02:11:29,300
That's just the cost of materials the cost of a land

1443
02:11:29,300 --> 02:11:33,920
I think you can see a project around the corner the Brad Reynolds is doing trading for that same price

1444
02:11:33,920 --> 02:11:38,660
If you look at the market when an individual buys these for that

1445
02:11:38,660 --> 02:11:44,980
That's called five hundred and fifty thousand dollars with mortgage rates where they are today in a three percent down payment

1446
02:11:44,980 --> 02:11:48,060
Their monthly payment will be upwards of four thousand dollars

1447
02:11:49,460 --> 02:12:08,980
That is way above rent in that area. If you look at Cori Bend and you look at all the surrounding inventory rentals for that similar type of product are trading between 2200 and 2900, you are way out of market if you buy a project or if you buy a home in here and you're paying a mortgage for

1448
02:12:08,980 --> 02:12:14,340
Let's call 3900 dollars. You can't rent it. You would be riding a check every month

1449
02:12:14,340 --> 02:12:15,820
to rent these out.

1450
02:12:16,340 --> 02:12:18,160
And so the market will correct that issue.

1451
02:12:19,180 --> 02:12:20,640
They won't become rentals because they

1452
02:12:20,640 --> 02:12:21,740
don't make sense to be rentals.

1453
02:12:21,900 --> 02:12:24,200
The only way it makes sense for this project

1454
02:12:24,200 --> 02:12:26,820
to be rentals is for an institutional investor

1455
02:12:26,820 --> 02:12:30,260
to come in and buy it and do rentals on the whole project

1456
02:12:30,260 --> 02:12:31,540
with a lower cost of capital.

1457
02:12:31,880 --> 02:12:33,080
We've agreed not to do that.

1458
02:12:33,580 --> 02:12:35,320
That's fine with that.

1459
02:12:35,760 --> 02:12:38,300
We will sell them, but the market will dictate

1460
02:12:38,300 --> 02:12:40,420
whether these can be rented by individuals.

1461
02:12:40,420 --> 02:12:43,080
and currently at the price which these work,

1462
02:12:43,700 --> 02:12:46,240
these will be sold for they won't work as rentals.

1463
02:12:46,760 --> 02:12:48,880
For an individual who comes in and purchases now,

1464
02:12:49,320 --> 02:12:50,800
there may be someone who has cash

1465
02:12:50,800 --> 02:12:53,760
and doesn't know what to do with it and comes up in and pays

1466
02:12:53,760 --> 02:12:56,680
all cash for the unit and rents it at a loss.

1467
02:12:57,240 --> 02:12:58,780
That I can't control that happening,

1468
02:12:59,460 --> 02:13:02,460
but for those who buy this and use an FHA loan

1469
02:13:02,460 --> 02:13:05,720
or 3% down payment, the market will dictate

1470
02:13:05,720 --> 02:13:07,000
what they can do with their property.

1471
02:13:07,000 --> 02:13:12,740
And so for those reasons, it was very hard for us to agree to rental restriction.

1472
02:13:14,040 --> 02:13:18,080
I'll be honest with you, we could put something in the HOA government documents.

1473
02:13:18,500 --> 02:13:20,460
Those are really, really hard to enforce.

1474
02:13:21,740 --> 02:13:24,560
We've seen several communities where those are put in and they're not really.

1475
02:13:25,060 --> 02:13:30,340
And here too, and you have neighbors, paddling on neighbors, or not, or scramming people.

1476
02:13:30,380 --> 02:13:35,140
And it's just really, really hard to enforce a rental provision from an HOA perspective.

1477
02:13:35,140 --> 02:13:41,000
And so we've tried that before, the non-successful, we found the best mechanism to govern

1478
02:13:41,000 --> 02:13:42,900
that as to let the market do it.

1479
02:13:43,480 --> 02:13:49,700
And for those reasons we push back, now we're open, you know, if it's something, if it's

1480
02:13:49,700 --> 02:13:53,520
a for sale issue, if you're still feeling comfortable with the 17-number week, we negotiate

1481
02:13:54,000 --> 02:13:54,440
that.

1482
02:13:54,880 --> 02:13:59,580
Like if it's, you know, you're really worried about those becoming rentals, that's,

1483
02:13:59,580 --> 02:14:15,660
That's negotiable that the challenge is, as I alluded to, just those, a degrestrict, or a property restriction on those who are by the property, because we ultimately have to pass that on to someone else who has to have a lender and has to get a loan on something, and that becomes difficult to do.

1484
02:14:16,460 --> 02:14:28,780
So anyway, I don't know if that makes sense or not, but we're willing to have additional conversations if there's other ideas that we haven't thought of, but I just wanted to let you know why we came out of the direction.

1485
02:14:28,780 --> 02:14:31,280
or why we approach it from that direction.

1486
02:14:33,750 --> 02:14:34,110
So yeah.

1487
02:14:34,330 --> 02:14:34,970
Thank you.

1488
02:14:35,250 --> 02:14:38,150
And if there's, like I said, if there's ideas or suggestions

1489
02:14:38,150 --> 02:14:43,250
we're open to those, we're happy to keep on working on it.

1490
02:14:43,550 --> 02:14:45,030
We love the property, love the use.

1491
02:14:46,010 --> 02:14:48,790
But there are some things that are challenging for us.

1492
02:14:49,050 --> 02:14:50,650
Yes, thank you for that.

1493
02:14:52,840 --> 02:14:57,680
Any additional thoughts before we vote?

1494
02:15:00,050 --> 02:15:12,830
Okay. Please, Mr. Fedwards. So again, because this was a, the motion was to deny, we're essentially denying.

1495
02:15:14,100 --> 02:15:14,640
All right.

1496
02:15:16,580 --> 02:15:30,580
Madam Chair, vote, yes, would be to deny about no, would be to deny about no, would be to deny about no, would be.

1497
02:15:30,580 --> 02:15:40,780
All right. I think we're ready. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Nichol. Yes. Ms. Christensen. Yes. Mr. DeKaiser.

1498
02:15:42,020 --> 02:15:42,700
No.

1499
02:15:45,320 --> 02:15:51,060
Ms. Trial. Yes. Ms. Houseman? No.

1500
02:15:53,700 --> 02:15:55,240
Ms. Sharky. Yes.

1501
02:15:59,910 --> 02:16:04,390
Madam Chair. That motion carried four to two to deny.

1502
02:16:07,180 --> 02:16:15,960
Okay, so with that we won't take up the other items, not tonight.

1503
02:16:17,080 --> 02:16:22,480
Okay, then I will thank you for those who've been a part of that conversation tonight.

1504
02:16:23,480 --> 02:16:26,960
I will move us on now to actually item number eight.

1505
02:16:27,820 --> 02:16:31,380
But before we take public comment on that, we are going to hear again.

1506
02:16:31,380 --> 02:16:40,460
This is our second reading on ADUs, we'll be taking away the same version.

1507
02:16:50,500 --> 02:16:53,460
So we're going to bring up the presentation.

1508
02:16:56,320 --> 02:17:05,020
So two weeks ago I presented on a proposal to amend the Land Development Code to allow

1509
02:17:05,020 --> 02:17:13,060
for detached ADUs, and the whole slide deck that was included in the packet is available

1510
02:17:13,060 --> 02:17:17,220
here, but I don't want to go through the whole thing.

1511
02:17:17,420 --> 02:17:21,880
I don't necessarily think it's necessary, but I want you to know that it's all available

1512
02:17:21,880 --> 02:17:25,220
here if you want to reference any of it.

1513
02:17:25,220 --> 02:17:35,000
I do want to just briefly go over some requirements of the state law just so that we're

1514
02:17:35,000 --> 02:17:45,220
clear on what we have to do or may not do and briefly touch again on our general plan

1515
02:17:45,220 --> 02:17:54,240
policies and so I'll go through some of that right now and then I'll open it back up to

1516
02:17:54,240 --> 02:18:01,620
the council to discuss the item. So the new state law is effective October 1st. It was

1517
02:18:01,620 --> 02:18:07,760
that the legislature and it requires us to provide for detached,

1518
02:18:08,080 --> 02:18:09,720
accessory dwelling units,

1519
02:18:11,820 --> 02:18:17,640
and that law has things that we are required

1520
02:18:17,640 --> 02:18:22,860
to do, we must, we shall do it, things that we may not do or were prohibited

1521
02:18:22,860 --> 02:18:27,180
for doing and also things that we may do.

1522
02:18:28,220 --> 02:18:37,700
And so in the staff report, originally, it addressed all those, but the shells or our requirements,

1523
02:18:38,000 --> 02:18:46,200
the minimum requirements of that law is to allow for detached data use on single family

1524
02:18:46,200 --> 02:18:51,100
home lots that are at least 11,000 square feet or greater.

1525
02:18:51,100 --> 02:18:58,000
We can go lower than that, but that's the minimum that we're required to do.

1526
02:18:59,300 --> 02:19:05,620
To do so, we must ensure that the building fire and health codes are addressed.

1527
02:19:06,720 --> 02:19:16,220
We also have to provide a process to convert existing accessory structures to a detached adieu.

1528
02:19:16,220 --> 02:19:19,240
It doesn't specify all the details of that,

1529
02:19:19,240 --> 02:19:20,840
but that we must provide a process.

1530
02:19:21,160 --> 02:19:26,100
So those are the things that the minimum that we're required to do.

1531
02:19:27,160 --> 02:19:35,180
And the minimum that we, or rather, the things that we're prohibited from doing

1532
02:19:35,180 --> 02:19:40,340
are that we can't require a conditional use permit for a detached data.

1533
02:19:40,480 --> 02:19:44,100
It needs to be a permitted use.

1534
02:19:44,100 --> 02:19:49,920
We can have standards, but it must be a permit at use in the residential zones.

1535
02:19:51,620 --> 02:19:59,020
For parking, we are prohibited from requiring a certain amount of parking, but we can require

1536
02:19:59,020 --> 02:19:59,700
some.

1537
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:11,880
Up to one, if it's an ADU that's 650 square feet or less, or less than that, or two, if it's 650 square feet or more.

1538
02:20:13,120 --> 02:20:29,100
But we can't, we're prohibitive from requiring any more than that. And we may not have design standards that conflict with all the design elements listed in the state code that regulate single-family homes.

1539
02:20:29,100 --> 02:20:37,020
So there's a number of things that we may do, and that's where, you know, having the minimum

1540
02:20:37,020 --> 02:20:43,340
required by state laws not a simple black and white, because they just list, okay, you must

1541
02:20:43,340 --> 02:20:48,200
do that, you're prohibited from doing that, you could do a variety of other things.

1542
02:20:48,380 --> 02:20:54,700
So basically, if we did the bare minimum, it would probably be more open and liberal than probably

1543
02:20:54,700 --> 02:20:57,140
the council would be comfortable with.

1544
02:20:57,140 --> 02:21:02,820
And so that's why we have that discretion to have additional standards.

1545
02:21:03,440 --> 02:21:16,530
So that is laid out in the proposal and so the number of maze that was in all in your packet.

1546
02:21:17,070 --> 02:21:22,410
I can go back to them if you'd like but I just didn't want to belabor this since we had a link.

1547
02:21:22,410 --> 02:21:24,630
What is the red indicate?

1548
02:21:25,450 --> 02:21:43,490
Yeah, and in the presentation and that was included in the packet and you see here now was like at the top it says we may require owner occupancy and so in the red we're saying we have done that and in this section of the culture.

1549
02:21:45,700 --> 02:22:04,880
And then lastly, I also wanted to just reiterate the General Plan policies because the proposal there is an attempt to try to make sure that we're following existing policies that the Council is already adopted.

1550
02:22:04,880 --> 02:22:12,900
So, the goals and policies of the general plan, as well as the moderate income housing plan,

1551
02:22:13,160 --> 02:22:19,920
which is state mandated, in general support accessory dwelling units, whether they're attached

1552
02:22:19,920 --> 02:22:24,060
to the home or inside the home or detached.

1553
02:22:24,420 --> 02:22:32,220
There's general support and it is to encourage a variety of housing options for different types of households.

1554
02:22:32,220 --> 02:22:41,540
There's also specifically with the policy is to require owner occupancy or to continue with that practice.

1555
02:22:42,380 --> 02:22:52,620
Mitigate impacts on neighboring properties and ensure aid use our subordinate or accessory to the primary structure.

1556
02:22:53,140 --> 02:22:55,840
Don't want them to be larger than that.

1557
02:22:55,840 --> 02:23:08,920
And so, that's the, some of the points that I just wanted to go over a refresh, and in the

1558
02:23:08,920 --> 02:23:19,840
packet and last meeting in the work session, I wanted to make sure you understood that we have

1559
02:23:19,840 --> 02:23:22,360
staff recommended proposal.

1560
02:23:22,360 --> 02:23:25,020
We had the public hearings with the Planning Commission.

1561
02:23:25,020 --> 02:23:27,980
Planning Commission did forward a positive recommendation,

1562
02:23:28,480 --> 02:23:29,940
but with modifications.

1563
02:23:30,620 --> 02:23:34,120
So all those modifications were laid out specifically,

1564
02:23:34,940 --> 02:23:39,320
they were in the presentation as well as in the minutes.

1565
02:23:40,220 --> 02:23:43,400
We tried to really capture those very detailed.

1566
02:23:45,740 --> 02:23:49,420
And also, at the last meeting,

1567
02:23:49,420 --> 02:23:58,320
The council did not necessarily give staff specific direction in terms of coming back with anything specific.

1568
02:23:58,660 --> 02:24:11,200
So we did not necessarily make any changes other than to maybe elaborate on how our proposal compares to what the state law is making and prohibiting or allowing us to do.

1569
02:24:11,200 --> 02:24:30,940
We did augment with that information, but at the last meeting I did notice I took notes throughout that there was some general support from and there may be had different perspectives now after thinking about it

1570
02:24:30,940 --> 02:24:40,420
But at the last meeting there seemed to be general support from the council for one story accessory dwelling units

1571
02:24:41,200 --> 02:24:53,300
Not to say everybody, but it seemed like there was maybe four people, council members, support on a maximum limit on the total square footage.

1572
02:24:54,020 --> 02:24:59,440
Because right now, the code is stipulating maximum footprint.

1573
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:06,740
And as it compares to your main house size, as well as your lock coverage on the rear.

1574
02:25:07,760 --> 02:25:12,840
But other cities do do that, so that's certainly a standard practice.

1575
02:25:13,180 --> 02:25:20,260
So if that's something that council want to consider, there seem to be some general support for that.

1576
02:25:20,260 --> 02:25:33,260
and also there was general support for detachity to use on lots 10,000 square feet or greater as opposed to 11,000 square feet or greater.

1577
02:25:34,700 --> 02:25:39,800
So those were just some points that I thought that I had heard at that time anyway.

1578
02:25:40,560 --> 02:25:50,240
I think that covers, yeah, most of my points I think tonight, the Council can make a decision in ordinance is attached to this.

1579
02:25:51,360 --> 02:26:06,160
If you wanted to make a motion to approve as presented or you could approve with modifications or you could have a discussion and direct staff to come back next week with something.

1580
02:26:06,500 --> 02:26:19,580
Our deadline is we need to have something adopted by October 1st, so we do have limited time, but you can direct staff if you wanted me to come back next week with some changes,

1581
02:26:19,580 --> 02:26:21,400
or some information.

1582
02:26:22,380 --> 02:26:26,920
I think that that covers everything, at least that I had.

1583
02:26:27,400 --> 02:26:33,620
So if you have questions, if you want to discuss that, and I'm here to work through

1584
02:26:33,620 --> 02:26:34,240
it all.

1585
02:26:34,480 --> 02:26:34,680
All right.

1586
02:26:35,340 --> 02:26:36,040
Thank you, Ms. Anderson.

1587
02:26:37,000 --> 02:26:37,380
Questions?

1588
02:26:41,020 --> 02:26:41,400
Ms. Nickel.

1589
02:26:45,180 --> 02:26:49,400
What planning commission recommendations did you incorporate it?

1590
02:26:54,320 --> 02:26:56,900
Well, there was one that was just a typo.

1591
02:26:57,140 --> 02:27:00,740
And that was already incorporated in.

1592
02:27:01,920 --> 02:27:08,780
And the other ones were not necessarily incorporated into the text.

1593
02:27:08,860 --> 02:27:11,220
Into the, um, your red line.

1594
02:27:11,820 --> 02:27:12,640
That's correct. Okay.

1595
02:27:13,420 --> 02:27:15,800
That question totally fine with that.

1596
02:27:20,190 --> 02:27:24,330
So I'm having a hard time with the extended living area definition.

1597
02:27:26,250 --> 02:27:36,790
I think it needs to be clearly delineated between extended living area and an ADU because I'm

1598
02:27:36,790 --> 02:27:44,430
looking at these other codes and extended living area, the definition is ADU.

1599
02:27:45,210 --> 02:27:48,310
So I think there may be some need

1600
02:27:50,580 --> 02:27:54,980
to change that extended living area and I was looking at it

1601
02:27:54,980 --> 02:28:02,360
really the only differences is, I would like the definition to say, to

1602
02:28:04,380 --> 02:28:05,600
restrict, okay,

1603
02:28:10,150 --> 02:28:12,970
so attached

1604
02:28:13,630 --> 02:28:21,190
living facility should it be space, sorry, the word, or facility, doesn't matter?

1605
02:28:21,950 --> 02:28:24,470
Oh, I see, additional living facilities,

1606
02:28:27,490 --> 02:28:30,650
space, and soaps, I don't know, but anyway, it's

1607
02:28:30,650 --> 02:28:34,570
I'm not lying, the single felt me dwelling contains a kitchen or kitchen net.

1608
02:28:34,730 --> 02:28:39,570
I would like to strike the kitchen or kitchen net, so an extended living area cannot have

1609
02:28:39,570 --> 02:28:40,710
a kitchen or kitchen net,

1610
02:28:43,200 --> 02:28:46,240
but it can have habitable living area.

1611
02:28:52,040 --> 02:28:55,400
It's actually a very big change, so I think I'm going to think about it.

1612
02:28:55,880 --> 02:29:05,480
I mean, that would have broad impact to the way our existing code is formulated and that's

1613
02:29:05,480 --> 02:29:10,160
what we have tried to do is graphed, what are existing standards are, and then an

1614
02:29:10,160 --> 02:29:14,680
extended living area is an existing construct that we have within our code, and the

1615
02:29:14,680 --> 02:29:20,040
functional difference between the spaces is how it's utilized, and who utilizes it.

1616
02:29:21,880 --> 02:29:26,180
So I'm trying to understand the direction that you're proposing to go with this, is it

1617
02:29:27,940 --> 02:29:37,650
Because you can have as many extended living areas as you want in any structure, right?

1618
02:29:38,650 --> 02:29:38,750
No.

1619
02:29:39,630 --> 02:29:43,930
So in extended living, how many extended living areas can you have?

1620
02:29:44,630 --> 02:29:49,690
So that depends on the recommendation that you end up deciding to move forward with.

1621
02:29:49,710 --> 02:29:53,110
So in the red line version that Melissa and staff has prepared,

1622
02:29:53,110 --> 02:29:59,950
It's limited to one internal and one external so one attached and one

1623
02:30:30,240 --> 02:30:38,180
In the motion that you want to incorporate certain, certain, I don't think that.

1624
02:30:38,700 --> 02:30:44,940
You can only have one extent in the living area, in attached or detached, right?

1625
02:30:46,100 --> 02:30:59,380
Or can you have more than one extended, well, if it's attached and it is a self-contained with all the bells and whistles, full bathroom, kitchen or kitchen.

1626
02:31:00,120 --> 02:31:07,060
bedroom, or sleeping area, sometimes this is studio. You would only be allowed to have

1627
02:31:07,060 --> 02:31:14,940
one self-contained extended living area for family, friends, no rental, but if you had

1628
02:31:14,940 --> 02:31:19,780
in addition to that, let's say a playroom with the kitchenette where you're watching

1629
02:31:19,780 --> 02:31:27,680
movies and stuff like that, that would also be allowed. And when we restrict it as something

1630
02:31:27,680 --> 02:31:34,580
number. And then what the Planning Commission's recommendation was is to allow up to two

1631
02:31:34,580 --> 02:31:40,480
self-contained internal if they didn't have any detached. So essentially they'd still

1632
02:31:40,480 --> 02:31:46,100
be allowed to have two as the staff's recommendation, but they provided a provision that would

1633
02:31:46,100 --> 02:31:50,560
allow both of those units to be internal when attached to the home.

1634
02:31:51,840 --> 02:32:02,980
I still like removing the kitchen or kitchen that from extended living area and make it habitable living area.

1635
02:32:04,660 --> 02:32:13,680
So you could have a bathroom, say you've got a cabana or a pool house, you can have a bathroom and a shower, but you can't have a kitchen or kitchenette.

1636
02:32:14,560 --> 02:32:17,480
It's the impact of the use, right?

1637
02:32:18,200 --> 02:32:22,900
And so the more kitchens you have, the more kitchens you're going to be cooking, the more people are going to be cooking.

1638
02:32:23,200 --> 02:32:24,400
That's a bigger impact.

1639
02:32:25,420 --> 02:32:26,900
I don't want to take some of that impact away.

1640
02:32:29,710 --> 02:32:32,390
So the issue isn't the use.

1641
02:32:32,670 --> 02:32:33,650
Do you go get it?

1642
02:32:33,770 --> 02:32:35,970
So like you're saying, if I'm not.

1643
02:32:36,050 --> 02:32:37,930
Like, I build a pool house.

1644
02:32:38,810 --> 02:32:40,670
Because there's a lot of pool houses in this district, Sandy.

1645
02:32:40,670 --> 02:32:53,890
But I build a pool house and I have a bathroom and I have, like, whatever goes in a pool house and then I can't have, like, a kitchenette in there to, like, keep my drinks cold and, like, have snacks out.

1646
02:32:54,270 --> 02:32:54,610
Is that actually?

1647
02:32:54,970 --> 02:33:06,690
Kitchenette is defined by an alcove kitchen smaller than a regular kitchen with a cooking facility. You can have a microwave and a mini fridge in your cabana.

1648
02:33:07,330 --> 02:33:10,050
But I can't have, like, a sink in a dishwasher and a full-size fridge.

1649
02:33:10,050 --> 02:33:12,730
Yes, and it's dope. You can't have a stof

1650
02:33:18,230 --> 02:33:19,770
in my world.

1651
02:33:24,450 --> 02:33:25,730
It's jerky.

1652
02:33:25,990 --> 02:33:31,790
So, along these lines, there must be a reason, but I don't understand it.

1653
02:33:32,350 --> 02:33:40,870
If an ELA cannot be rented, and it's meant for you by the family or extended family or

1654
02:33:40,870 --> 02:33:44,290
whatever, why would we limit them at all?

1655
02:33:44,290 --> 02:33:55,430
So, since we limited them, there must have been a reason, I like to understand the reason that we were applying a limitation of them at all.

1656
02:33:56,490 --> 02:33:57,710
What is it?

1657
02:33:58,890 --> 02:34:06,750
I think part of it is, once you have the facility within the house, it leads to other unintended consequences.

1658
02:34:06,750 --> 02:34:15,270
It could become a rental, but so you're used to it could become a legal rental or an illegal rental.

1659
02:34:15,850 --> 02:34:24,620
It all depends on how it's utilized and who utilizes it and whether it's for the extended family,

1660
02:34:25,320 --> 02:34:30,740
or their existing family, or whether it's used as an auxiliary unit.

1661
02:34:32,560 --> 02:34:37,880
Since we require a business license, if it's a rental,

1662
02:34:41,280 --> 02:34:53,140
not sure we're in the business to prevent people from doing something they would want to do because we're afraid they might go rogue on us and do something illegal.

1663
02:34:53,140 --> 02:34:59,960
You know, I just, you know, the last time I went looking for a house with...

1664
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:09,600
My daughters, they wanted two masters. That was a housing stock that was available. It wasn't widely available, but they

1665
02:35:09,600 --> 02:35:18,040
wanted two masters. So I'm thinking might there be a reasonable legitimate reason, that two people might want two

1666
02:35:18,040 --> 02:35:28,280
two and I just imposing a restriction on that. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around.

1667
02:35:28,440 --> 02:35:30,620
They could have two kitchens.

1668
02:35:30,860 --> 02:35:34,200
Under this provision, they would exactly have that right.

1669
02:35:34,820 --> 02:35:35,940
They currently have that right.

1670
02:35:36,180 --> 02:35:38,520
We're not changing that, but under this proposal.

1671
02:35:38,880 --> 02:35:44,440
What we're doing is adding to it that those spaces can be external detached.

1672
02:35:44,440 --> 02:35:50,880
So, this is existing code language that we have within our city and have had four decades.

1673
02:35:51,200 --> 02:36:00,640
I guess I used to bad example because I said two, but what if it was three or four or whatever, but we're not going to allow that, right?

1674
02:36:00,820 --> 02:36:08,180
Well, I think the key in the in the house, the way it's written, you could, it's just if it's self-contained,

1675
02:36:08,180 --> 02:36:15,480
We're, you know, that it could, you could fully have a full bathroom and the kitchen and everything

1676
02:36:15,480 --> 02:36:17,320
as an apartment.

1677
02:36:18,900 --> 02:36:20,760
What's the definition of self-contained?

1678
02:36:21,820 --> 02:36:26,060
That it includes all the elements.

1679
02:36:29,880 --> 02:36:31,960
I think it's in the other.

1680
02:36:32,480 --> 02:36:36,820
The confunction is a separate dwelling, meaning that they're not sharing those facilities

1681
02:36:36,820 --> 02:36:43,780
with the rest of the house. So if you just had to say like the example of a movie room or a

1682
02:36:43,780 --> 02:36:48,800
pool house and they didn't have the other associated bathroom and bedroom and living facilities,

1683
02:36:49,200 --> 02:36:53,640
it couldn't be used as a self-contained unit. And so you could have any number of...

1684
02:36:53,640 --> 02:37:00,040
And you also have all the components? Yes, exactly. And in the ADU definition, for example,

1685
02:37:00,040 --> 02:37:11,740
So self-contained habitable living unit includes kitchen or kitchen at three-quarter or full bathroom and sleeping areas.

1686
02:37:11,920 --> 02:37:15,100
The extended living area.

1687
02:37:15,500 --> 02:37:17,980
If it's self-contained, that's going to, it's the same.

1688
02:37:18,160 --> 02:37:19,760
Exactly the same, right? The definition?

1689
02:37:20,600 --> 02:37:26,300
Yeah, and then the only difference is if it's not self-contained, if it's just an extra bedroom

1690
02:37:26,300 --> 02:37:31,440
and an extra kitchenette somewhere within the house for wet bar or something like that.

1691
02:37:31,620 --> 02:37:33,660
They could have any number of those.

1692
02:37:34,060 --> 02:37:36,700
However, they couldn't have more than one self-contained.

1693
02:37:37,300 --> 02:37:40,740
Or if the Planning Commission's code provision was applied,

1694
02:37:41,460 --> 02:37:45,020
they could have up to two, as long as they didn't have any detached.

1695
02:37:45,780 --> 02:37:49,080
And I think to answer your question, Councillor Scherke,

1696
02:37:49,080 --> 02:38:17,800
Sorry, if I hadn't more than one or multiple self-contained, then in my mind from a planage perspective, we're looking at, well, then it's an R2 zone, duplex, duplexes, it's an R3, it's for, because you're having full units, and so to me that's looking at is the intention to, you know,

1697
02:38:19,000 --> 02:38:25,520
basically, up zone because these are intended for single-family zones and there's a certain

1698
02:38:25,520 --> 02:38:32,720
expectation of how much development really can go on a single-family within single-family

1699
02:38:32,720 --> 02:38:43,160
zones on each property and so if we had an excessive amount of these fully self-contained units

1700
02:38:43,160 --> 02:38:50,340
you know, you could have a operationally a foreplex going on in a single family home that the code never intended.

1701
02:38:50,520 --> 02:38:55,460
We're still only allowing for one set of utility connections to the building, right?

1702
02:38:56,100 --> 02:38:58,240
That's part of the code.

1703
02:38:59,480 --> 02:39:06,540
And the other part of it is that the right to have an ADU is contingent on owner occupancy.

1704
02:39:07,120 --> 02:39:12,540
And that's one thing that we get calls a lot when someone does develop an internal ADU currently.

1705
02:39:13,780 --> 02:39:18,860
When it gets listed, oftentimes the real-iters will list it as has an ADU.

1706
02:39:19,540 --> 02:39:22,640
And they will call and ask, can I have an ADU with this property?

1707
02:39:22,860 --> 02:39:26,420
And we say, yes, with conditions, you have to own the property.

1708
02:39:26,740 --> 02:39:31,320
Many people take that under the assumption that has been converted into a duplex and they

1709
02:39:31,320 --> 02:39:33,300
can rent out both the top and the bottom.

1710
02:39:34,080 --> 02:39:40,380
And so part of the reason to have this distinction is to make that implicit that it is not

1711
02:39:40,380 --> 02:39:44,180
always going to be an additional unit like a duplex.

1712
02:39:44,860 --> 02:39:48,620
It is conditioned upon how that family chooses to use that space.

1713
02:39:49,080 --> 02:39:54,320
And it could be a separate unit that is rented as long as the primary owners are the primary

1714
02:39:54,320 --> 02:39:57,180
occupants of that home and live there as their primary residents.

1715
02:39:57,180 --> 02:39:59,940
And so that's part of the reason why we've had

1716
02:40:00,000 --> 02:40:10,440
This concept of an extended living area and an ADU is that these units may come and they may go as far as how they're being used.

1717
02:40:10,720 --> 02:40:16,880
That's why we don't allow for separate addressing, we don't allow for separate meter connections, because they are not a full unit all the time.

1718
02:40:17,440 --> 02:40:23,920
They're not a duplex or a triplex type of situation. It could be used by the occupant and their family.

1719
02:40:23,920 --> 02:40:39,620
And that's where if there's less barriers to do this, if it is for family use, but if they have the intent of renting it out, there are a few more regulatory barriers that they have to pass in order to do that.

1720
02:40:40,260 --> 02:40:44,700
And one of the key things is to honor occupancy when we go through that application process.

1721
02:40:45,020 --> 02:40:50,020
Just checking the documentation and checking parking on site.

1722
02:40:50,020 --> 02:40:51,560
We ask a question.

1723
02:40:52,540 --> 02:40:57,140
I actually have some personal experience with this because I've dealt with it myself and so

1724
02:40:57,140 --> 02:40:59,480
I'm happy to share my experience, but I have a question.

1725
02:41:00,600 --> 02:41:07,780
When you talk about self-contained, does that require an external entrance?

1726
02:41:07,940 --> 02:41:13,500
So if you're an internal property, so you could have an extended living area that doesn't

1727
02:41:13,500 --> 02:41:19,680
require an external entrance, but what about an 80, what an 80, you require an external

1728
02:41:19,680 --> 02:41:27,060
required to, they don't have to be, if it's in the main house, it doesn't have to be internally

1729
02:41:27,060 --> 02:41:33,840
connected, per state law, does not have to be, they can't have an external, you know,

1730
02:41:34,120 --> 02:41:37,460
another way to come in, but we don't dictate that.

1731
02:41:37,460 --> 02:41:41,120
We couldn't regulate, we couldn't require an external entrance for an ADU.

1732
02:41:41,300 --> 02:41:49,460
The state changed the code provisions on that a couple of years ago when they made

1733
02:41:49,460 --> 02:41:56,400
building codes and other design requirements like having an exterior entrance eliminated from

1734
02:41:56,400 --> 02:42:00,660
the code to make these easier for homeowners to implement.

1735
02:42:01,120 --> 02:42:04,440
Now that you say that that sounds familiar to me, I think I built mine.

1736
02:42:04,520 --> 02:42:08,660
We used to have a provision that required a separate entrance and we used to have a provision

1737
02:42:08,660 --> 02:42:13,120
that required full separation and firewalls in between the units.

1738
02:42:13,300 --> 02:42:16,100
That has all gone away by state provision.

1739
02:42:16,100 --> 02:42:21,120
And we have the internal connection requirement before state law changed that way to that one.

1740
02:42:22,180 --> 02:42:25,660
So they can have it, but they're not required to internally.

1741
02:42:26,000 --> 02:42:26,220
Right.

1742
02:42:26,240 --> 02:42:27,580
They don't have to have a share of hallway.

1743
02:42:28,740 --> 02:42:30,480
Madam Chair, can I just share my experience?

1744
02:42:30,560 --> 02:42:32,040
Because I think it's applicable.

1745
02:42:32,680 --> 02:42:40,000
So I have a extended living area in my basement that was not there when I bought my house.

1746
02:42:40,400 --> 02:42:41,300
We put it in.

1747
02:42:41,760 --> 02:42:45,600
And we put it in with the intention of, and I don't live in Sandy.

1748
02:42:45,600 --> 02:42:50,440
right, so this is under different cities ordinances, but I'm just going to put that on

1749
02:42:50,440 --> 02:42:50,960
the record.

1750
02:42:52,880 --> 02:43:00,740
We built it in order to have family come stay there, right, and we needed a kitchen bathroom

1751
02:43:00,740 --> 02:43:02,620
bedroom for that purpose.

1752
02:43:03,360 --> 02:43:09,060
We did not put an external entrance, and we have no intention to rent it to anybody else,

1753
02:43:09,480 --> 02:43:12,740
but in the example of, you know, why would you need a kitchen?

1754
02:43:13,200 --> 02:43:16,920
I think there are other people that probably have that same experience, right?

1755
02:43:16,920 --> 02:43:21,140
Maybe they want their grandkids or kids to come stay there, but they're not necessarily going

1756
02:43:21,140 --> 02:43:24,820
to rent it out to a, you know, external renter.

1757
02:43:24,940 --> 02:43:28,140
I think that's probably the purpose of the extent of the living area, right?

1758
02:43:28,460 --> 02:43:29,780
That's how I understand it.

1759
02:43:30,040 --> 02:43:34,300
It's, hey, this is where the intention is that you're going to have family, friends, et cetera,

1760
02:43:34,420 --> 02:43:35,080
come stay here.

1761
02:43:35,100 --> 02:43:41,420
That's why you can put this in, but if it's going to be an ADU, then there's another set

1762
02:43:41,420 --> 02:43:45,100
of requirements and standards, and that's kind of the difference.

1763
02:43:45,120 --> 02:43:48,520
If we take away the ability to put in a kitchen or kitchen

1764
02:43:48,520 --> 02:43:53,660
at in an extended living area, then essentially you'd be requiring all

1765
02:43:53,660 --> 02:43:56,760
of those to become 80 use if they're going to have a kitchen or kitchen

1766
02:43:56,760 --> 02:44:01,560
at, which might you may be putting up a barrier for folks who are wanting

1767
02:44:02,100 --> 02:44:06,120
their kids, grandkids, et cetera, a family to come stay there, and which was my

1768
02:44:06,120 --> 02:44:06,520
experience.

1769
02:44:06,540 --> 02:44:09,940
So I thought I'd share that because I think it might be applicable.

1770
02:44:10,600 --> 02:44:15,640
And the way the code is written right now, it does become a game of kind of counting

1771
02:44:15,640 --> 02:44:19,400
kitchens and trying to ascertain someone's intended use.

1772
02:44:20,140 --> 02:44:24,660
And the way we wanted to rephrase this a little bit from what we currently are doing is

1773
02:44:24,660 --> 02:44:27,620
make sure that it is a self-contained area.

1774
02:44:28,280 --> 02:44:34,140
And if it's not self-contained, if it's not isolated, if they don't have all of the components

1775
02:44:34,140 --> 02:44:36,280
then it wouldn't necessarily count against them.

1776
02:44:36,280 --> 02:44:40,220
But if they just had a need for an additional kitchen or a wet bar,

1777
02:44:40,860 --> 02:44:44,400
we've even seen people putting wet bars in their bedrooms and their master bedrooms,

1778
02:44:45,000 --> 02:44:46,100
that's becoming a thing.

1779
02:44:47,280 --> 02:44:52,340
So we didn't want to get into that business of trying to count up the number of kitchens per se

1780
02:44:52,340 --> 02:44:55,340
or kitchenettes that people are putting into their homes or where they're putting them.

1781
02:44:56,140 --> 02:44:59,940
The real issue is regarding whether they're trying to create a self-contained.

1782
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:11,640
That could be, at some point, used as an ADU. And then only limit that space to one, which is what we, the intent, I believe, of our current ordinance, as is written.

1783
02:45:12,020 --> 02:45:20,380
That was the intent, but I think it's getting harder to actually kind of split the hairs between those different use cases.

1784
02:45:24,360 --> 02:45:25,180
Thank you.

1785
02:45:25,200 --> 02:45:29,340
Yeah, the difference is the use, and that's the only difference, right?

1786
02:45:30,120 --> 02:45:30,160
Yes.

1787
02:45:30,680 --> 02:45:31,160
Okay.

1788
02:45:31,900 --> 02:45:32,180
The Christians.

1789
02:45:35,560 --> 02:45:41,780
These are the things that, I don't, I think, like, as I went through this document,

1790
02:45:42,100 --> 02:45:44,980
like, I'm looking specifically at

1791
02:45:48,180 --> 02:45:50,060
the exhibit A, the red line version.

1792
02:45:52,140 --> 02:45:57,740
And under the general requirement section, it was the only place I had questions.

1793
02:46:07,520 --> 02:46:14,360
So basically, we're saying one internal, one external, on number one, this is in section E, sorry.

1794
02:46:15,960 --> 02:46:17,580
Can't sell it as a separate lot.

1795
02:46:18,320 --> 02:46:19,500
It has to use the same meter.

1796
02:46:20,040 --> 02:46:21,760
No extra addresses or mild boxes.

1797
02:46:22,520 --> 02:46:25,480
Lays out the parking that we already talked about, the one in two spots.

1798
02:46:25,480 --> 02:46:40,120
You can't have a mobile home in Section E8, B. Do we as for a single family? Do we need

1799
02:46:40,120 --> 02:46:45,240
to add in something like number of non-related individuals? Like we do in other parts

1800
02:46:45,240 --> 02:46:45,920
of our code?

1801
02:46:48,540 --> 02:46:55,280
Oh, I see. Well, I think that is referencing our definition of family, which

1802
02:46:55,880 --> 02:47:06,580
fine. General requirements. And then section E, numbers eight, sorry. Yeah, so.

1803
02:47:06,740 --> 02:47:14,140
It's already defined. Yeah, single family is defined as remind me. We can pull that up.

1804
02:47:14,340 --> 02:47:17,740
Because I know in some other parts, and this might be old, and I could be wrong, because

1805
02:47:17,740 --> 02:47:24,400
I'm just remembering. But like in a home, you could have either a single family or XML of

1806
02:47:28,860 --> 02:47:40,760
So you can have up to four unrelated individuals and still constitute as a single family.

1807
02:47:41,220 --> 02:47:43,600
Okay, so but we don't need to like call that out in here.

1808
02:47:43,960 --> 02:47:45,140
That's was just making sure.

1809
02:47:45,160 --> 02:47:47,840
It would fall back to that definition of a family.

1810
02:47:47,940 --> 02:47:48,180
Great.

1811
02:47:50,320 --> 02:47:53,480
Then I'm fine with the rest of G and F.

1812
02:47:54,380 --> 02:48:02,540
or sorry ENF, then in G4, G4, it says that you should not

1813
02:48:02,540 --> 02:48:04,300
encroach into the setback.

1814
02:48:06,600 --> 02:48:10,480
Is anyone opposed to, well, it says they can

1815
02:48:10,480 --> 02:48:15,940
encroach to feet into your setback. Would anyone be opposed if we adjusted that to

1816
02:48:15,940 --> 02:48:20,400
not encroach into the setback? Because it means that like, you know, your house is

1817
02:48:21,540 --> 02:48:26,320
on your six-foot property line but two feet over that you can have the eaves of the 80

1818
02:48:26,320 --> 02:48:31,320
year. The 80 would have to be set back a minimum of 10 feet. Okay, so 10 feet and then

1819
02:48:31,320 --> 02:48:36,020
at 8 feet you can have the eaves coming out. That's the edge of the eave. So the set

1820
02:48:36,020 --> 02:48:40,320
back would be here. It could come two feet and then the edge of the eave would be

1821
02:48:40,320 --> 02:48:46,480
the eight. And that's the same that we have now on your primary home. The eave can

1822
02:48:46,480 --> 02:48:52,240
extended to the setback by two feet. That's where we got that from. And that's that assuming

1823
02:48:52,240 --> 02:49:00,300
that we have already at least 10 feet, side rear, that they have up to two feet. And that's

1824
02:49:00,300 --> 02:49:05,480
the distinguishing from an accessory building, which they are allowed to go as close as

1825
02:49:05,480 --> 02:49:13,180
two feet and have a four foot or four inch encroachment into this side back. Okay, okay, I'm

1826
02:49:14,380 --> 02:49:20,540
G8, number two, is that where we were talking a little bit ago about setting a maximum size?

1827
02:49:21,700 --> 02:49:27,540
Yes, you could. In this area, if you wanted to do something like that, I think this would be the location that you would do that.

1828
02:49:27,540 --> 02:49:37,460
I would love to set a maximum size just because like based on the lot sizes before I think the maximum size was like you could build a 4,000 square foot,

1829
02:49:37,460 --> 02:49:45,460
6,000 square foot, 80, but potentially if you had a basement, and if you were back enough to have a two

1830
02:49:45,460 --> 02:49:48,860
And in the large lots and then a lot of size, but that's huge

1831
02:49:49,520 --> 02:49:59,960
It is large. Yeah, so if you wanted to institute an alternative maximum, I would like to because they you could have multiple standards where you know

1832
02:50:00,000 --> 02:50:05,200
Whichever's last, no more in the past. You could add us three, but any number of these, whichever.

1833
02:50:05,360 --> 02:50:12,160
So if you have an 11,000 square foot lot, what size can your ADV?

1834
02:50:13,180 --> 02:50:13,660
Depends.

1835
02:50:16,780 --> 02:50:24,400
So what's more than, do you have the 11,000 square foot lot size examples on this slide deck that we can show?

1836
02:50:24,660 --> 02:50:26,780
Madam Chair, can I make one other comment?

1837
02:50:26,780 --> 02:50:34,260
So, one thing to just think about is if you wanted to implement an alternative maximum,

1838
02:50:34,800 --> 02:50:39,920
you might consider keeping the recommendation that staff has put forward, and then saying

1839
02:50:39,920 --> 02:50:46,220
or this maximum, whichever is smaller as we have to comply with, right?

1840
02:50:46,700 --> 02:50:51,820
That way, you're not saying, hey, we have a 1,500 square foot maximum, but that applies

1841
02:50:51,820 --> 02:50:53,320
to all lot sizes, right?

1842
02:50:53,720 --> 02:51:01,000
Because maybe a 10,000 square foot lot with a larger house would actually, a smaller, you know,

1843
02:51:01,060 --> 02:51:05,960
a smaller square footage would be better, but maybe you want to make sure that that maximum

1844
02:51:06,540 --> 02:51:09,700
doesn't get go over for a larger lot, right?

1845
02:51:09,720 --> 02:51:12,260
That's been thinking like 11,000 square feet.

1846
02:51:13,660 --> 02:51:14,180
1100?

1847
02:51:15,540 --> 02:51:16,060
1100?

1848
02:51:16,060 --> 02:51:16,420
No.

1849
02:51:16,700 --> 02:51:16,800
1100?

1850
02:51:16,800 --> 02:51:17,440
On a lot.

1851
02:51:17,600 --> 02:51:18,440
On a lot.

1852
02:51:18,980 --> 02:51:19,120
On a lot.

1853
02:51:20,000 --> 02:51:25,840
So this slide kind of explains a little bit of how that provision is set out.

1854
02:51:26,060 --> 02:51:34,000
So it says no more than 75% of the primary filling dwelling footprint, but it also has to

1855
02:51:34,000 --> 02:51:49,100
meet the rear yard coverage area. And so for a lot of under 15,000 square feet, the max size is

1856
02:51:49,100 --> 02:51:53,780
in the rear yard and in no case can be more than 25% of the rear yard area.

1857
02:51:54,200 --> 02:52:00,340
So if you remember those, it could take, it could be with a basement, 1500 square feet.

1858
02:52:00,920 --> 02:52:04,420
If you had a basement at 750 and then the, okay.

1859
02:52:04,580 --> 02:52:08,180
If they could accommodate that maximum size, yes.

1860
02:52:08,380 --> 02:52:14,000
So here's my thoughts and I'm fine with everything with these changes and you guys tell me what you think.

1861
02:52:15,280 --> 02:52:26,380
I think that we should keep it at 11,000 square feet until we see how this pans out and see once we do what we can't take it back.

1862
02:52:26,700 --> 02:52:33,220
And then we can go forward and make smaller areas as we see how this process goes. So 11,000 square feet.

1863
02:52:33,220 --> 02:52:40,740
Um, and then we make the maximum, I mean, I'm flexible on that, but I don't think it should

1864
02:52:40,740 --> 02:52:45,260
be more than like 2,000 square feet of the most, I mean, that's.

1865
02:52:45,260 --> 02:52:48,720
And you're talking total square foot is, oh, oh, I don't know.

1866
02:52:49,000 --> 02:52:49,280
Yeah.

1867
02:52:50,140 --> 02:52:51,260
And only one story.

1868
02:52:51,460 --> 02:52:52,580
Those are my three things.

1869
02:52:53,300 --> 02:52:53,480
Okay.

1870
02:52:53,760 --> 02:52:55,900
Or one and a half, whichever one.

1871
02:52:56,220 --> 02:52:56,700
15.

1872
02:52:57,720 --> 02:52:57,940
Whatever.

1873
02:52:58,240 --> 02:52:58,960
15 foot, 15.

1874
02:52:59,740 --> 02:52:59,780
Yeah.

1875
02:52:59,780 --> 02:53:00,580
It was not in there.

1876
02:53:00,580 --> 02:53:07,120
So that one is the next slide I think.

1877
02:53:07,120 --> 02:53:27,880
But let's see, this 11,000 square feet are greater and lots.

1878
02:53:28,260 --> 02:53:28,360
Yes.

1879
02:53:28,900 --> 02:53:30,200
And then did you have a group?

1880
02:53:30,200 --> 02:53:32,560
was total square footage was 2000.

1881
02:53:33,280 --> 02:53:35,320
I mean, you guys, I'm kind of tossing that out there.

1882
02:53:35,360 --> 02:53:37,540
I don't know if that's where these people are not, but.

1883
02:53:39,770 --> 02:53:42,710
So those would be like, so it's that would be my,

1884
02:53:42,790 --> 02:53:45,870
with those changes that I would be happy to pass it tonight.

1885
02:53:46,670 --> 02:53:48,790
So that's what I'm trying to get us to is,

1886
02:53:48,910 --> 02:53:50,830
I don't want to repeat what we did before

1887
02:53:50,830 --> 02:53:53,330
where we just all say what we like and don't like

1888
02:53:53,330 --> 02:53:55,050
and we don't end up giving any direction.

1889
02:53:55,270 --> 02:53:57,210
So I feel like we're headed down that path

1890
02:53:57,210 --> 02:53:59,830
just a little bit as individual input.

1891
02:53:59,990 --> 02:54:01,970
So maybe you're asking for feedback from

1892
02:54:01,970 --> 02:54:07,250
Like, is that something that the rest of the council is willing to support those things as

1893
02:54:07,250 --> 02:54:08,670
and passing it or not?

1894
02:54:09,210 --> 02:54:16,590
So part of that would not be allowing even if they met the setbacks of an attached structure,

1895
02:54:17,230 --> 02:54:21,030
you're still not okay with the second level or anything over 15 feet.

1896
02:54:21,410 --> 02:54:23,390
Just to clarify what you're discussing.

1897
02:54:23,650 --> 02:54:24,850
Yeah, 15 feet.

1898
02:54:25,050 --> 02:54:26,250
And anything that's detached?

1899
02:54:26,730 --> 02:54:28,390
I can't support that.

1900
02:54:28,750 --> 02:54:36,030
And I know we're, yeah, we have to give directions tonight. So either we, well, you can make a motion and have it have it.

1901
02:54:36,470 --> 02:54:37,090
Be a mandate.

1902
02:54:37,230 --> 02:54:39,810
Even support for this from so Marcie's and no.

1903
02:54:39,970 --> 02:54:45,790
Well, let me explain why I haven't had a chance to share thoughts. So just let me share why.

1904
02:54:46,790 --> 02:54:55,750
I'm a little, um, I feel like we're getting caught up in in some things and losing sight of perhaps a picture that I am seeing,

1905
02:54:55,750 --> 02:54:59,950
which is, if I were to buy...

1906
02:55:00,000 --> 02:55:16,820
A property is a homeowner and I wanted to come in and build to the max of the envelope of the property. I could have a two-story structure right up against the setbacks within the envelope.

1907
02:55:16,820 --> 02:55:26,280
So I'm not sure why we are considering being so restrictive on the story of an ADU.

1908
02:55:26,620 --> 02:55:33,100
We're like, we're just anti-second story on an ADU where someone could build on that same property

1909
02:55:33,100 --> 02:55:37,040
and have a two-story home that takes up the entire envelope and that's allowable.

1910
02:55:37,980 --> 02:55:44,560
So I'm starting to get concerned about so many restrictions and this is just for me.

1911
02:55:44,560 --> 02:55:47,780
I'm trying to solve, I feel like we need to have

1912
02:55:47,780 --> 02:55:51,100
offer the homeowner as much flexibility as possible

1913
02:55:51,100 --> 02:55:54,080
to make home ownership a reality.

1914
02:55:54,440 --> 02:55:58,260
And I'm getting concerns with some of,

1915
02:55:59,220 --> 02:56:01,800
it being even more strenuous than I think in these three.

1916
02:56:01,800 --> 02:56:04,820
So that's why I'm saying camps for that.

1917
02:56:05,540 --> 02:56:08,760
But I'm one of six tonight, so.

1918
02:56:08,760 --> 02:56:17,800
The maximum height period in San Diego is 35 feet, right, for any, any residential structure.

1919
02:56:20,240 --> 02:56:24,380
So, right, so when I give you, you would say it could go to 35.

1920
02:56:27,220 --> 02:56:30,480
If, I mean, again, my rationale is, yeah.

1921
02:56:31,920 --> 02:56:37,400
And my view, if it's allowed to go to 35, it is not subordinate to the main house.

1922
02:56:37,400 --> 02:56:46,880
So, and if we're looking at making the maximum building coverage, 75% or less, if we're accepting

1923
02:56:46,880 --> 02:56:54,780
as we can, per state law to make it subordinate, then it should be smaller.

1924
02:56:55,520 --> 02:56:55,740
That's right.

1925
02:56:55,820 --> 02:57:01,340
And I understand that what we're discussing is a subordinate, like it needs to be smaller.

1926
02:57:01,340 --> 02:57:23,800
And I understand what I want to operate with within what state law says, which if state law says it's got to be a smaller size than I can support that, but what I'm struggling with this argument against a second story, if it's still smaller than the primary dwelling.

1927
02:57:23,800 --> 02:57:29,720
I mean, I could build a home, again, second, I could build a two-story home, stay in the 35 feet.

1928
02:57:29,940 --> 02:57:31,820
Like, that's the part I'm, I'm certain.

1929
02:57:32,240 --> 02:57:38,900
I personally don't understand the 75% or less, but I understand that's what we have to operate within.

1930
02:57:39,880 --> 02:57:45,500
I'm just, I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to add more restrictions that are necessary.

1931
02:57:45,920 --> 02:57:49,600
I want to allow as much flexibility for the homeowner's possible.

1932
02:57:49,600 --> 02:58:03,280
Just for clarity, Council Member Houseman, the 75% or less, that's related to the footprint compared to the footprint of the primary dwelling, and that's optional.

1933
02:58:03,280 --> 02:58:09,000
Well, the state law doesn't dictate us that it must be supportant.

1934
02:58:09,140 --> 02:58:19,080
It allows us to do so, but our general plan policies are supported being supportant, too.

1935
02:58:20,240 --> 02:58:22,360
And you can accomplish that in a variety of ways.

1936
02:58:22,660 --> 02:58:28,660
We attempted to do that with this by having, well, the footprint no more than 75% of the

1937
02:58:29,400 --> 02:58:31,700
But potentially, if you met all the setbacks,

1938
02:58:31,740 --> 02:58:33,640
you could be as high as it.

1939
02:58:34,160 --> 02:58:36,860
So, you know, you could have subordinate in a number of ways.

1940
02:58:37,340 --> 02:58:39,600
Like, hey, you can't even be as tall as that.

1941
02:58:40,440 --> 02:58:42,960
And I think that's what she was writing exactly.

1942
02:58:43,040 --> 02:58:44,480
I just want to make sure that you,

1943
02:58:44,560 --> 02:58:47,520
or the state's not requiring us to be used.

1944
02:58:47,600 --> 02:58:49,360
And I think I'm probably in the minority.

1945
02:58:49,760 --> 02:58:55,180
I think everyone, the size me, perhaps, agrees that it should be subordinate.

1946
02:58:56,400 --> 02:59:02,880
But I, again, I'm thinking the envelope, what is an allowable build.

1947
02:59:03,580 --> 02:59:09,580
And that same logic was the logic that we were using only crafted some of this language.

1948
02:59:10,020 --> 02:59:13,100
And that's why I'm very comfortable with what you've brought to us tonight.

1949
02:59:13,360 --> 02:59:16,020
Can I just comment, I think that's the best logic.

1950
02:59:17,840 --> 02:59:22,780
The subordinate conversation, I don't think that the height, they can be the same height,

1951
02:59:22,780 --> 02:59:26,040
the ADU is still subordinate to the main dwelling unit.

1952
02:59:26,220 --> 02:59:31,720
To me, it's almost always going to be subordinate to the original unit.

1953
02:59:33,720 --> 02:59:38,860
I think it's more in terms of the size of the building that it's subordinate, not necessarily

1954
02:59:38,860 --> 02:59:44,100
the height, but I just wanted to agree with the chair that I think we need to be doing as much

1955
02:59:44,100 --> 02:59:54,360
as we possibly can on ADUs to make housing more accessible and affordable and why if you

1956
02:59:54,360 --> 02:59:58,960
can do it with the primary unit based on the setbacks, you couldn't do it with the ADU.

1957
02:59:58,960 --> 02:59:59,940
I have no

1958
03:00:01,920 --> 03:00:17,260
So, again, I feel like we're getting a little bit derailed by the details, but I just really want to encourage my colleagues to do as much as we can for our property owners and their rights and getting people into more affordable and attainable housing.

1959
03:00:20,580 --> 03:00:29,760
I take a completely, which I respect your opinion, but I take a completely opposite view because you're saying respect that property owners, right? What about everybody else around them?

1960
03:00:29,760 --> 03:00:33,640
They have the right to do that with the primary dwelling.

1961
03:00:34,320 --> 03:00:37,680
What I'm saying, but that's if you have a house and then you're trying to build something different.

1962
03:00:37,860 --> 03:00:40,980
So I end and I think we walk into this.

1963
03:00:41,660 --> 03:00:42,680
We implement something.

1964
03:00:43,320 --> 03:00:45,100
We see what applications come forward.

1965
03:00:45,280 --> 03:00:48,200
We see what the challenges are and then we can loosen up after that.

1966
03:00:48,620 --> 03:00:50,960
But you cannot roll anything back.

1967
03:00:51,340 --> 03:00:52,880
You can't say, you know what?

1968
03:00:53,420 --> 03:00:53,440
Wow.

1969
03:00:54,060 --> 03:00:55,700
We have some issues with this.

1970
03:00:55,700 --> 03:00:59,520
we didn't realize that this could be a potential problem.

1971
03:01:00,760 --> 03:01:05,100
Let's see, I mean, the state is demanding this of cities.

1972
03:01:07,360 --> 03:01:10,020
Let's see where it really puts us.

1973
03:01:10,360 --> 03:01:15,280
I mean, there's zero part of me that says somebody's going to go

1974
03:01:15,280 --> 03:01:20,900
by a, you know, $15,000 square foot lot.

1975
03:01:21,500 --> 03:01:23,820
Say, you know what, I've got $1.5 million to do this,

1976
03:01:23,820 --> 03:01:26,660
to go build an ADU because I need affordable housing.

1977
03:01:26,820 --> 03:01:30,200
There's no part of me that says that that is bringing

1978
03:01:30,200 --> 03:01:31,540
this affordable housing component.

1979
03:01:32,880 --> 03:01:36,460
And that's, so I think we just, we look at this.

1980
03:01:36,920 --> 03:01:39,220
And we say, I mean, planning commission is recommended coming back.

1981
03:01:39,280 --> 03:01:42,720
I think all of us agreed at one point that we will

1982
03:01:42,720 --> 03:01:45,060
be wanting this to come back.

1983
03:01:45,320 --> 03:01:48,780
But let's start with some conservative things,

1984
03:01:49,320 --> 03:01:52,040
and then move forward from that from there.

1985
03:01:54,480 --> 03:01:58,260
Madam Chair, could I make a recommendation?

1986
03:01:59,400 --> 03:02:03,140
So far, if I missed one, I apologize, but I've heard

1987
03:02:03,140 --> 03:02:07,080
three suggested edits, Council Member Nichols suggested

1988
03:02:07,080 --> 03:02:11,080
an edit to the definition of extended living area,

1989
03:02:11,280 --> 03:02:14,580
and then Council Member Christensen suggested two changes,

1990
03:02:15,280 --> 03:02:19,380
one to put an additional cap of 2,000 square feet for total

1991
03:02:19,380 --> 03:02:25,780
building coverage, in addition to what staff is already recommending, and then both Council member

1992
03:02:25,780 --> 03:02:31,300
Christian and Council member Nichols suggested the 15-foot height limitation that I capture

1993
03:02:31,300 --> 03:02:35,380
the recommendation, the edits that I've heard so far.

1994
03:02:36,760 --> 03:02:38,180
11,000 square feet.

1995
03:02:38,460 --> 03:02:39,080
That's already coming.

1996
03:02:40,020 --> 03:02:43,040
Yeah, the 11,000 square foot law is already included in that.

1997
03:02:43,040 --> 03:02:45,420
And the planning commission recommended in their motion.

1998
03:02:45,420 --> 03:02:48,780
test. Yeah. And I'm okay with with

1999
03:02:48,780 --> 03:02:51,140
him. I don't know if we want to talk about that.

2000
03:02:51,500 --> 03:02:53,820
If we can, I like that you want to take one

2001
03:02:53,820 --> 03:02:58,100
one. Okay. Yeah. And so that was going to be my

2002
03:02:58,100 --> 03:03:02,500
suggestion is why don't you make a motion for

2003
03:03:02,500 --> 03:03:04,700
each one of those individual amendments and then

2004
03:03:04,700 --> 03:03:07,420
just do a voice vote on them. That we, you're

2005
03:03:07,420 --> 03:03:09,080
giving direction, you know, I'll give you an

2006
03:03:09,080 --> 03:03:12,300
example for the 15 foot height. You might say,

2007
03:03:12,300 --> 03:03:19,820
We, I make a motion directing staff to include a 15-foot height maximum for external

2008
03:03:19,820 --> 03:03:28,700
ADUs within this, within this, sorry, AD ordinance, that'll give them the direction

2009
03:03:28,700 --> 03:03:30,100
that they need to do that.

2010
03:03:30,460 --> 03:03:39,020
Okay, so I would make a motion to direct staff to adjust the maximum height to 15 feet in the

2011
03:03:39,020 --> 03:03:40,720
your minutes.

2012
03:03:46,680 --> 03:03:47,160
Second.

2013
03:03:48,080 --> 03:03:48,260
Okay.

2014
03:03:48,340 --> 03:03:49,540
We have a motion in the second.

2015
03:03:50,240 --> 03:03:50,880
On the motion.

2016
03:03:52,440 --> 03:03:54,020
So what does that give us?

2017
03:03:54,420 --> 03:04:01,640
When we first had a presentation from you guys on April 16th, we were talking about one story.

2018
03:04:01,820 --> 03:04:03,140
One and a half, too.

2019
03:04:04,020 --> 03:04:07,520
So and I saw council support for one and one and a half.

2020
03:04:07,880 --> 03:04:10,080
So what is 15 feet?

2021
03:04:10,260 --> 03:04:11,260
Get us.

2022
03:04:11,260 --> 03:04:24,220
How many stories that's generally a single single story, they might be able to squeeze in a little loft area, but it's not enough to have a full second story.

2023
03:04:24,600 --> 03:04:26,140
No, not for second.

2024
03:04:27,300 --> 03:04:36,920
So if it's one and a half, and it does include, at least the potential for a loft, how what kind of building height are we talking about in that case?

2025
03:04:38,220 --> 03:04:47,480
generally you'd probably need 17 18 20 feet. Max, yeah. Out of minimum. And that's a

2026
03:04:47,480 --> 03:04:54,400
peak truth and not a flat roof or what is it? Yeah. For a story in a half. Yeah.

2027
03:04:57,320 --> 03:04:57,960
Yeah.

2028
03:04:57,960 --> 03:04:59,960
If, yeah, when-

2029
03:05:00,000 --> 03:05:16,880
When you think about construction, when you're trying to do that little bonus space up above in the rafters, you still have rafters. You still have trusses that take up some of that space and still having enough headroom to make it livable between the different floors.

2030
03:05:19,550 --> 03:05:24,630
So yeah. A 15 foot in the most cases, I think, would limit it to single story buildings like this.

2031
03:05:24,630 --> 03:05:26,310
plus the basement.

2032
03:05:26,310 --> 03:05:27,890
Plus the basement, off potential.

2033
03:05:29,150 --> 03:05:32,010
That's what's in there now, if you continue to allow that.

2034
03:05:32,430 --> 03:05:33,470
So what do we think, Council?

2035
03:05:33,790 --> 03:05:38,810
We debated between one story and one and a half back then.

2036
03:05:39,310 --> 03:05:40,690
What do we think now?

2037
03:05:41,370 --> 03:05:44,870
And under our provision, anything above us, a single story

2038
03:05:45,650 --> 03:05:49,130
would require it to be set back further.

2039
03:05:49,610 --> 03:05:50,390
So let's see.

2040
03:05:53,150 --> 03:05:55,110
Yeah, so if we're getting into these scenarios,

2041
03:05:55,110 --> 03:06:01,810
those, that's where we're saying that they would have to meet the setbacks of, as though it were attached for that zone,

2042
03:06:02,330 --> 03:06:10,710
no closer than 10 feet, regardless of the zone to the side, but in the rear, that's where you'd want additional setback.

2043
03:06:11,210 --> 03:06:18,410
Similar to the way that footprint showing there on that graphic, that's what is in the staff's recommendation.

2044
03:06:18,410 --> 03:06:23,870
Now that I think the client commission kept at the same and their motion

2045
03:06:26,000 --> 03:06:29,500
So we have a motion in a second if we could go ahead

2046
03:06:30,640 --> 03:06:32,040
boat on that unless

2047
03:06:35,160 --> 03:06:39,440
Man, I'm sure since we're going to be moving through a few these if the council's open to it

2048
03:06:39,440 --> 03:06:41,960
I would suggest you just do a voice vote

2049
03:06:41,960 --> 03:06:48,660
Okay, all in favor all against and so as a reminder this motion is to cap

2050
03:06:48,660 --> 03:06:56,440
height at 15 feet. Yes. For the detached 80. Yes. Okay. We'll do a voice

2051
03:06:56,440 --> 03:07:01,480
vote. All in favour? Say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Say no? No.

2052
03:07:02,460 --> 03:07:09,280
No. That failed. Okay. So then it was three and three. So then the second

2053
03:07:09,280 --> 03:07:16,420
motion is to instruct staff to amend 26.55.

2054
03:07:17,180 --> 03:07:21,080
Councilmember, so sorry, can we maybe I was, maybe I shouldn't have had to do a voice

2055
03:07:21,080 --> 03:07:21,460
vote.

2056
03:07:21,500 --> 03:07:23,040
We're having some trouble.

2057
03:07:23,640 --> 03:07:25,040
Let's go ahead and do voice vote.

2058
03:07:25,760 --> 03:07:26,960
Can we do a roll call vote?

2059
03:07:27,280 --> 03:07:28,860
We'll see if we were right.

2060
03:07:30,560 --> 03:07:30,840
Yes.

2061
03:07:31,440 --> 03:07:33,660
We're quite sure what the council is.

2062
03:07:33,660 --> 03:07:46,000
So, the motion made from birth Christians in seconded by Allison Stroud to adjust the height to a maximum of 15 feet.

2063
03:07:47,120 --> 03:07:48,820
Miss Christians in? Yes.

2064
03:07:48,860 --> 03:07:50,400
Discussion on the motion? Yes.

2065
03:07:50,400 --> 03:07:52,280
Oh, okay. All right.

2066
03:07:55,200 --> 03:07:56,320
Miss Stroud? Yes.

2067
03:07:58,870 --> 03:07:59,410
Miss Nickel?

2068
03:08:01,130 --> 03:08:01,450
Yes.

2069
03:08:03,290 --> 03:08:04,570
Miss Houseman? No.

2070
03:08:05,850 --> 03:08:06,970
Miss Sharkey? No.

2071
03:08:08,330 --> 03:08:09,550
Mr. DeKaiser.

2072
03:08:11,550 --> 03:08:16,070
So that motion failed because the vote was a tie three to three.

2073
03:08:16,510 --> 03:08:18,910
So quick question for the staff down there.

2074
03:08:18,950 --> 03:08:23,370
This is the 15, or this is what you could have on 15.

2075
03:08:23,790 --> 03:08:24,330
No.

2076
03:08:24,330 --> 03:08:24,390
No.

2077
03:08:25,650 --> 03:08:26,950
That's second story.

2078
03:08:29,050 --> 03:08:32,750
So can I make a motion to cap the height limit at 20 feet?

2079
03:08:32,750 --> 03:08:38,370
Could you, could you get two stories on 18, 18?

2080
03:08:39,370 --> 03:08:43,150
So I think a bonus, like a living area, you could.

2081
03:08:43,690 --> 03:08:46,650
Or a flat roof maybe.

2082
03:08:47,230 --> 03:08:48,290
What was it, 18?

2083
03:08:48,890 --> 03:08:51,810
Yeah, 20 and just seeing if we could do that with 18.

2084
03:08:51,950 --> 03:08:57,770
Is the concern, the subordination of that structure to the primary,

2085
03:08:58,170 --> 03:08:59,670
is it just overall height?

2086
03:08:59,670 --> 03:09:04,650
It's high, when compared, when you're, the neighbor.

2087
03:09:06,630 --> 03:09:10,830
So it's, it's, it's, it's the coordination does come into play, but it's more of the impact

2088
03:09:10,830 --> 03:09:17,890
of the height that I want to reduce, because we, we've had plans before before that they said,

2089
03:09:17,890 --> 03:09:24,270
if you keep the, the properties that on the exterior to one levels, there'll be less resistance,

2090
03:09:25,070 --> 03:09:27,690
And, because it's not that big of a change.

2091
03:09:27,690 --> 03:09:31,090
So I'm just thinking along that line.

2092
03:09:31,710 --> 03:09:40,990
And you can also adjust the setback to what's 18 feet increasing the setback.

2093
03:09:41,290 --> 03:09:46,870
If that's something you want to do, I mean, our proposal was if it's what 15 feet or

2094
03:09:46,870 --> 03:09:54,530
less, then you can have this 10 to 10, but if it's taller than that, well, then you

2095
03:09:54,530 --> 03:09:56,790
have to have the setback, just like the main house.

2096
03:09:56,790 --> 03:09:59,930
What's the magic number to get a one-and-a-half?

2097
03:10:00,760 --> 03:10:03,190
I don't think there is a magic number.

2098
03:10:04,120 --> 03:10:06,700
We said 18 to 20, right?

2099
03:10:06,860 --> 03:10:08,460
You can also welcome it, right?

2100
03:10:08,460 --> 03:10:13,440
We said something and say one and a half feet or 18 feet.

2101
03:10:13,680 --> 03:10:14,540
I mean, that's not true.

2102
03:10:14,760 --> 03:10:15,980
You didn't have that.

2103
03:10:16,140 --> 03:10:22,040
As a matter of fact, the legislature adopted that we are legally allowed to include defined high building

2104
03:10:22,040 --> 03:10:25,700
high as a story and a dimension.

2105
03:10:25,700 --> 03:10:31,740
And so you can say, you know, the more than one story and so many feet high.

2106
03:10:32,040 --> 03:10:39,460
So can we, what do you want, what no more than like one and a half, so can I do so much

2107
03:10:39,460 --> 03:10:42,220
then you can do that real quick before you do.

2108
03:10:42,400 --> 03:10:48,660
Ms. Christensen, can I just ask the council, do you think there are any properties in

2109
03:10:48,660 --> 03:10:53,280
Sandy where a two story ADU is would potentially be acceptable?

2110
03:10:55,010 --> 03:11:02,150
Because if there are, which I assume there are a ton, why are we limiting this?

2111
03:11:02,470 --> 03:11:08,070
I guess the question is, are you looking for affordable housing or are you looking for rental income or for your kids?

2112
03:11:08,750 --> 03:11:12,070
So, because those are the only places I think they would, I'm just the acceptable.

2113
03:11:12,410 --> 03:11:21,350
I'm just saying I think we're really limiting possibilities on large lots and sandy, which is where they're mostly going to be happening.

2114
03:11:21,350 --> 03:11:28,330
And it is affordable so people can age in place and their families can move in, et cetera.

2115
03:11:28,470 --> 03:11:35,750
I'm just saying, I just feel like we're being overly restrictive because I'm pretty sure the answer to the question is,

2116
03:11:35,930 --> 03:11:41,050
yes, there are plenty of lots where you could have a really nice two-story ADU that works for a family.

2117
03:11:41,450 --> 03:11:44,330
And so I just want to cautious us about being over the minute.

2118
03:11:44,510 --> 03:11:50,530
If you're talking about affordable housing, if anything you build above the main level, it's twice the cost.

2119
03:11:50,530 --> 03:11:58,730
So, we're getting there if you do a two story, you're talking ballpark in the range of on the upper

2120
03:11:58,730 --> 03:11:59,210
side.

2121
03:11:59,850 --> 03:12:01,010
It's not for a ball.

2122
03:12:01,610 --> 03:12:09,350
So the thing about two story, you often will have a garage level on the bottom that either

2123
03:12:09,350 --> 03:12:14,110
could provide additional offshoot parking for the unit or for the homeowner themselves.

2124
03:12:14,650 --> 03:12:18,930
Oftentimes I think we'll see a lot of these two story being converted, meaning they haven't

2125
03:12:18,930 --> 03:12:22,990
existing detached garage, and as long as they met those standards for setbacks, they

2126
03:12:22,990 --> 03:12:26,770
could convert the upper level or the loft area or things like that.

2127
03:12:26,870 --> 03:12:29,690
So we wanted to accommodate for those type of scenarios.

2128
03:12:30,430 --> 03:12:36,050
The other thing, I think we wanted to do in doing this is an addition versus a detached

2129
03:12:36,050 --> 03:12:41,890
structure is also more expensive to do an addition to a home than it is to do a detached

2130
03:12:41,890 --> 03:12:42,330
structure.

2131
03:12:42,950 --> 03:12:47,710
So I thought it was if someone wants to do an ADU and they want to do a second story

2132
03:12:47,710 --> 03:12:56,710
If we restrict it to only having single level, we're going to force them into doing an addition which will increase the cost to do that.

2133
03:12:58,570 --> 03:13:00,690
But they could do it and they could have the same.

2134
03:13:00,910 --> 03:13:03,150
In fact, they could have more height in that scenario.

2135
03:13:03,570 --> 03:13:06,910
They could have up to 35 feet if it's attached to the house.

2136
03:13:06,910 --> 03:13:07,750
It's part of their house.

2137
03:13:07,790 --> 03:13:08,990
Because it's part of their house.

2138
03:13:09,250 --> 03:13:13,790
So you have more design discretion as a detachity to you as well.

2139
03:13:13,790 --> 03:13:25,290
Okay, so can I make a motion then to adjust the edu to say the maximum height would either be one and a half stories or

2140
03:13:25,290 --> 03:13:26,290
twenty,

2141
03:13:27,150 --> 03:13:27,310
eighteen,

2142
03:13:27,890 --> 03:13:28,870
do you have preference?

2143
03:13:31,820 --> 03:13:32,700
Eighteen feet.

2144
03:13:34,300 --> 03:13:35,920
So either or, right?

2145
03:13:38,980 --> 03:13:42,960
If you want to do that as your standard, you're going to eliminate a lot of second story.

2146
03:13:44,280 --> 03:13:52,640
And force them, either that or force them into a flat roof design, which may not be compatible with the character of the neighborhood.

2147
03:13:54,420 --> 03:13:56,280
Michael's two limited-class stories.

2148
03:13:56,740 --> 03:14:00,700
Flat roof at 18, it still couldn't get you to two stories, right?

2149
03:14:00,980 --> 03:14:03,620
18, yeah, you probably could.

2150
03:14:04,040 --> 03:14:08,740
You may not have very tall floor to ceiling heights, but you could get to the second story.

2151
03:14:08,740 --> 03:14:11,240
So I'm going to stick with that for about a second.

2152
03:14:14,410 --> 03:14:16,410
18 or one and a half stories.

2153
03:14:16,910 --> 03:14:17,430
Councilmember.

2154
03:14:18,010 --> 03:14:18,710
Is the 18.

2155
03:14:19,690 --> 03:14:22,310
So I guess I'm confused on the requirement.

2156
03:14:22,810 --> 03:14:25,810
Would it be one and a half stories,

2157
03:14:26,550 --> 03:14:29,010
or up to a maximum of 18 feet?

2158
03:14:29,290 --> 03:14:29,890
Is that what it is?

2159
03:14:34,580 --> 03:14:36,040
Because, yeah, it depends on the roof height.

2160
03:14:36,820 --> 03:14:40,380
Yeah, even on a, like this scenario,

2161
03:14:40,840 --> 03:14:43,620
which is showing kind of a nested in

2162
03:14:43,620 --> 03:14:45,100
second story.

2163
03:14:50,440 --> 03:14:55,140
Yeah, 18 will probably limit most second story units if that's the

2164
03:14:55,140 --> 03:14:56,260
and 10th goal.

2165
03:14:56,640 --> 03:14:57,700
I'll second the motion.

2166
03:15:01,430 --> 03:15:05,790
So, we have a motion in a second. Any discussion? Mr. DeKaser.

2167
03:15:06,550 --> 03:15:12,870
I feel like this is going to get rid of the, you know, garage with a unit above option.

2168
03:15:13,050 --> 03:15:17,110
And you all are concerned about getting cars off the streets and having nice parking.

2169
03:15:17,230 --> 03:15:23,550
Why are you eliminating like the prime ADU that's going to solve the problems you are?

2170
03:15:23,550 --> 03:15:37,070
So this is for detached ADU, so if the garage is attached to the house, is there a limit on building the it's it does it become an internal ADU if the garage is attached to the house

2171
03:15:37,070 --> 03:15:43,190
And you add an ADU over the garage. Yeah, that would be in addition to the house that's an internal ADU.

2172
03:15:43,190 --> 03:15:49,730
Okay, so we're only talking about detached garages. Yes, so this one right here on the right

2173
03:15:50,450 --> 03:15:56,710
That is a great two-story unit with parking on the bottom and living on the top and it

2174
03:15:56,710 --> 03:16:02,630
gets our cars off the streets and you're going to disallow it.

2175
03:16:02,890 --> 03:16:03,790
That is what.

2176
03:16:06,440 --> 03:16:09,920
You know, just to add to that one of the things that we brought up the first time we met

2177
03:16:09,920 --> 03:16:15,420
on this that hasn't come up so far because we've been really focusing on the specifics of

2178
03:16:15,420 --> 03:16:17,620
the build is the privacy issue.

2179
03:16:17,620 --> 03:16:24,100
So, a second story is going to encroach on the privacy.

2180
03:16:24,980 --> 03:16:30,020
Not more than like the chair said, not more than a house already could.

2181
03:16:30,700 --> 03:16:32,380
We have those protections in the process.

2182
03:16:32,380 --> 03:16:35,680
We're also introducing into double the density.

2183
03:16:36,600 --> 03:16:39,380
Potentially double the density on all of the time.

2184
03:16:39,380 --> 03:16:41,940
That's not unique argument because it's inevitable.

2185
03:16:42,240 --> 03:16:44,560
We're going to double the density regardless of the height.

2186
03:16:46,770 --> 03:16:56,770
And, and I just this council is so set on parking requirements, which I am way on the other side on and I just cannot believe that in our design we're going to

2187
03:16:59,350 --> 03:17:04,230
Go with the option that gets the cars off the street and not allow housing on it.

2188
03:17:04,430 --> 03:17:07,930
Mr. DeKaiser, can you focus your comments on your thoughts?

2189
03:17:07,970 --> 03:17:08,810
I'm in the comments.

2190
03:17:09,430 --> 03:17:10,010
I'm in the comments.

2191
03:17:10,230 --> 03:17:13,550
I'm in the comments.

2192
03:17:13,550 --> 03:17:15,010
However, good policy.

2193
03:17:15,010 --> 03:17:19,770
We need to thank you, I appreciate this as a spirit of conversation.

2194
03:17:20,510 --> 03:17:22,830
But I don't think it's necessarily productive.

2195
03:17:22,970 --> 03:17:26,590
What I think would be most productive is we have a motion, and we have a second.

2196
03:17:27,710 --> 03:17:34,910
I think we've shared enough to understand why we will vote the way we will vote.

2197
03:17:35,770 --> 03:17:38,790
So we have a motion of second, roll call vote, please.

2198
03:17:38,790 --> 03:17:45,310
Thank you Madam Chair, Ms. Christensen. Yes, Ms. Sharpie. Yes, Mr. DeKaiser.

2199
03:17:45,870 --> 03:17:46,070
No.

2200
03:17:47,470 --> 03:17:48,750
Mr. Stroud. Yes.

2201
03:17:50,090 --> 03:17:51,330
Ms. Nichol. Yes.

2202
03:17:52,710 --> 03:17:53,490
Ms. Houseway.

2203
03:17:53,650 --> 03:17:53,970
No.

2204
03:17:55,270 --> 03:17:59,250
Madam Chair, that motion carried forward to two.

2205
03:17:59,750 --> 03:18:02,090
Kate, do you have the direction you need for that one more?

2206
03:18:02,410 --> 03:18:03,150
I know. Okay.

2207
03:18:04,850 --> 03:18:05,910
You got it? Okay.

2208
03:18:05,910 --> 03:18:16,380
So then I'd like to make a motion to have staff adjust the ADU code to have the total

2209
03:18:16,380 --> 03:18:23,900
square foot becapped a 2000 square feet or the other one that you have.

2210
03:18:25,300 --> 03:18:32,520
So just to clarify Madam Chair, that is a cap in addition to the requirements that staff

2211
03:18:32,520 --> 03:18:33,940
is already included correct?

2212
03:18:34,160 --> 03:18:34,220
Yes.

2213
03:18:35,260 --> 03:18:38,880
It would be adding a number of three in that table.

2214
03:18:40,160 --> 03:18:40,800
That's right.

2215
03:18:41,300 --> 03:18:42,980
In G8.

2216
03:18:43,380 --> 03:18:43,660
Okay.

2217
03:18:43,660 --> 03:18:44,320
We have a motion?

2218
03:18:47,140 --> 03:18:47,340
Second.

2219
03:18:48,380 --> 03:18:48,560
Okay.

2220
03:18:48,660 --> 03:18:49,060
We have a motion.

2221
03:18:49,340 --> 03:18:49,520
Second.

2222
03:18:49,880 --> 03:18:51,020
Discussion on this motion.

2223
03:18:58,520 --> 03:18:58,700
Okay.

2224
03:18:59,340 --> 03:19:07,160
So those a markup she did, Mike, were any of those 80 use over 2,000 square feet?

2225
03:19:08,300 --> 03:19:08,500
Yeah.

2226
03:19:08,500 --> 03:19:14,320
In some of those scenarios, it did permit an ADU, let's say I think they're all over the end.

2227
03:19:14,860 --> 03:19:20,520
And that was a caveat with the fourth out for one acre lots.

2228
03:19:21,040 --> 03:19:22,060
That was something for sure, right?

2229
03:19:22,660 --> 03:19:32,180
So, yeah, anything that's over 40,000 square feet is the only area that can have a footprint over 2,000 square feet.

2230
03:19:32,800 --> 03:19:35,000
Or up to 2,000 square feet.

2231
03:19:35,000 --> 03:19:46,520
So this scenario, oops, this shows 2,000 square foot ADU sizes in relation to the context of that area.

2232
03:19:47,460 --> 03:19:49,260
And this also gives an example.

2233
03:19:50,760 --> 03:19:54,560
So the one on the left already has an ADU, that's a two story.

2234
03:19:56,220 --> 03:19:59,940
And that's where in that box, that's where they put that ADU.

2235
03:20:00,000 --> 03:20:16,000
Which was limited to 400 square feet for a guest house. Which would now be called the detached adieu. That's how that one was built on on the left. The one on the right doesn't have that. And so that's showing at 1200 square foot adieu because they already have some detached structures on the on the lot.

2236
03:20:17,100 --> 03:20:19,860
Just to give you some site context.

2237
03:20:22,300 --> 03:20:28,720
So what are we changing with what the the motion that I understand it is this is limiting the footprint.

2238
03:20:29,580 --> 03:20:36,800
It would add an additional restriction to the total score footage of the unit all floors

2239
03:20:38,020 --> 03:20:38,580
inputted.

2240
03:20:38,580 --> 03:20:39,360
The gross footage.

2241
03:20:39,820 --> 03:20:40,620
There was a basement.

2242
03:20:40,880 --> 03:20:41,380
You'd have that sort of.

2243
03:20:41,380 --> 03:20:42,580
Or a bonus level.

2244
03:20:43,800 --> 03:20:45,400
So you're establishing a cap.

2245
03:20:45,740 --> 03:20:50,520
So the only way you couldn't maximize that footprint is if it were all single level.

2246
03:20:51,000 --> 03:20:55,260
So if you maxed out the 2000s for a feed, you'd be capped with this as well.

2247
03:20:55,640 --> 03:20:57,440
You couldn't have a basement in that scenario.

2248
03:20:57,440 --> 03:21:00,440
You can have an upper level because you've already maxed out your score footage.

2249
03:21:06,600 --> 03:21:09,560
Square footage is common.

2250
03:21:10,660 --> 03:21:11,020
Okay.

2251
03:21:11,360 --> 03:21:13,940
It's not unique or out of this world.

2252
03:21:14,240 --> 03:21:15,680
Thank you.

2253
03:21:16,160 --> 03:21:16,380
Okay.

2254
03:21:16,480 --> 03:21:17,240
We have motion.

2255
03:21:17,420 --> 03:21:17,720
A second.

2256
03:21:17,920 --> 03:21:18,880
Any other discussion?

2257
03:21:20,800 --> 03:21:21,700
Roll call vote, please.

2258
03:21:23,600 --> 03:21:24,320
Ms. Christensen?

2259
03:21:25,820 --> 03:21:26,560
Ms. Stroud?

2260
03:21:26,800 --> 03:21:27,020
Yes.

2261
03:21:28,580 --> 03:21:29,280
Ms. Nichol?

2262
03:21:31,680 --> 03:21:32,060
Yes.

2263
03:21:33,400 --> 03:21:34,260
Ms. Houseman?

2264
03:21:34,900 --> 03:21:35,460
No.

2265
03:21:36,120 --> 03:21:38,160
The Sharkey, yes.

2266
03:21:39,480 --> 03:21:40,240
Mr. DeKaiser.

2267
03:21:41,320 --> 03:21:41,400
No.

2268
03:21:43,460 --> 03:21:47,340
Madam Chair, that motion carried forward to two.

2269
03:21:47,740 --> 03:21:50,920
Okay, do we have any other amendments we're hoping to vote on?

2270
03:21:51,280 --> 03:21:56,680
So now can I just make a one to do the whole thing with these changes?

2271
03:21:57,260 --> 03:22:00,700
So we don't know the fact that we have other individual amendments.

2272
03:22:03,960 --> 03:22:09,520
So, parking, I think the way that it's written right now is that we do make that

2273
03:22:09,520 --> 03:22:15,860
exclusion for no parking required within a half mile of a transportation.

2274
03:22:16,000 --> 03:22:22,040
It's not by one, reduced by one parking spot if you are.

2275
03:22:23,460 --> 03:22:30,180
So, if it was over 650 square feet and you'd normally have to have two, you could just have one instead.

2276
03:22:30,180 --> 03:22:34,940
So, that's how it's proposed in our exhibit.

2277
03:22:35,580 --> 03:22:45,660
Yeah, and the minimum parking requirements without even any detached stadiums is that we have a two-car garage and two in the driveway so that's a total of four.

2278
03:22:46,140 --> 03:22:52,020
Yes, that's the baseline. This allows us to do some additional if you had a detached stadium.

2279
03:22:52,020 --> 03:23:00,760
So, in the way that SB 284 was written, it's just two additional spaces, or one additional space based on the square footage of the dwellings.

2280
03:23:00,780 --> 03:23:02,060
And that's gross square footage.

2281
03:23:02,920 --> 03:23:07,420
So, we added the reduction for the proximity.

2282
03:23:07,740 --> 03:23:08,420
Yes, so.

2283
03:23:08,440 --> 03:23:11,640
Well, we added the parking requirement, because that's an optional standard.

2284
03:23:12,160 --> 03:23:17,220
And we allowed for that to be reduced if they're approximate to transit in our recommendation.

2285
03:23:18,900 --> 03:23:29,000
I would, I, my amendment would be that we eliminate that, at least for starters, and, and we can always come back to it.

2286
03:23:29,020 --> 03:23:38,480
I think what we're doing is establishing a baseline of a trial, right, and so I would do that as well.

2287
03:23:38,700 --> 03:23:45,540
I'd eliminate that, that, that, no reduction in parking because you're, yes, that's correct.

2288
03:23:52,360 --> 03:23:56,040
So I think I heard a motion in a second.

2289
03:23:57,280 --> 03:23:58,840
Discussion on this motion.

2290
03:24:01,700 --> 03:24:04,240
All right, see now we'll do a little call though.

2291
03:24:08,540 --> 03:24:09,980
Can I clarify really quickly?

2292
03:24:10,500 --> 03:24:15,700
So yes, we are requiring two parking spots.

2293
03:24:16,000 --> 03:24:16,860
One or two.

2294
03:24:17,440 --> 03:24:20,820
It's just eliminating the reduction based on proximity to transit.

2295
03:24:20,820 --> 03:24:23,440
That's what you're voting to eliminate, potentially.

2296
03:24:24,400 --> 03:24:28,060
And if we say no, it's because we want that, let's say.

2297
03:24:28,060 --> 03:24:29,280
You want to allow that.

2298
03:24:29,720 --> 03:24:31,280
Thank you.

2299
03:24:31,460 --> 03:24:32,100
What we're going to call that?

2300
03:24:33,720 --> 03:24:34,700
Ms. Sharkey.

2301
03:24:36,060 --> 03:24:36,720
Ms. Christensen.

2302
03:24:39,160 --> 03:24:40,020
Mr. DeKaiser.

2303
03:24:40,880 --> 03:24:41,080
No.

2304
03:24:42,820 --> 03:24:43,480
Mr. Stark.

2305
03:24:45,160 --> 03:24:45,860
Ms. Nichol?

2306
03:24:46,380 --> 03:24:46,460
Yes.

2307
03:24:47,280 --> 03:24:48,100
Ms. Houseman.

2308
03:24:48,220 --> 03:24:48,480
No.

2309
03:24:49,830 --> 03:24:54,090
Madam Chair, that motion carried forward to two?

2310
03:24:54,550 --> 03:24:58,010
Any additional amendments beyond what has been presented?

2311
03:24:58,530 --> 03:24:59,170
Just a second.

2312
03:25:02,260 --> 03:25:12,700
I just want a clarification on Exhibit A6. It has to accept it systems.

2313
03:25:15,000 --> 03:25:15,000
So,

2314
03:25:17,040 --> 03:25:33,610
I'm not clear, somebody couldn't put

2315
03:25:33,610 --> 03:25:41,930
the land development code, but we don't allow septic things anywhere in the city. We have

2316
03:25:41,930 --> 03:25:47,910
some of the ground-fathered in, so you could not service an ADU off of a septic.

2317
03:25:50,530 --> 03:25:51,270
And if your

2318
03:25:51,270 --> 03:25:56,490
home is on a septic now, and you want to do an ADU, you have to upgrade, you're going to have

2319
03:25:56,490 --> 03:26:02,810
to connect a sewer, and get rid of your septic system. We're using that as a tool to get rid

2320
03:26:02,810 --> 03:26:05,150
of septic systems.

2321
03:26:13,520 --> 03:26:17,500
Madam Chair, just a reminder, once you're done

2322
03:26:17,500 --> 03:26:19,840
with amendments, we'll want to jump to public comment.

2323
03:26:20,080 --> 03:26:23,520
I was planted on it before we actually moved to the whole thing.

2324
03:26:24,200 --> 03:26:25,200
So is that everything?

2325
03:26:25,860 --> 03:26:26,780
Just what's it?

2326
03:26:32,080 --> 03:26:36,440
So regarding the Planning Commission recommendations,

2327
03:26:39,020 --> 03:26:42,260
someone during what you guys feel about this one

2328
03:26:42,260 --> 03:26:48,760
If you don't have an external ADU, you could have two internal extended living areas.

2329
03:26:49,300 --> 03:26:51,260
Anyone have any thoughts about that one?

2330
03:26:52,200 --> 03:26:56,560
I could support that one depending on what the council feels.

2331
03:26:56,560 --> 03:26:57,800
Sorry, which one?

2332
03:26:58,760 --> 03:27:04,560
If you don't have an external ELA, you can have two internal ones.

2333
03:27:06,380 --> 03:27:12,380
That's number one slide of the proposed changes

2334
03:27:14,620 --> 03:27:16,620
that the planning commissioner recommended.

2335
03:27:16,860 --> 03:27:23,860
No, the fear is that that kit is converted and adopted for another use.

2336
03:27:24,340 --> 03:27:32,160
But it's clear that those ELAs are not for cannot be rented.

2337
03:27:32,160 --> 03:27:33,440
That is clear.

2338
03:27:35,930 --> 03:27:41,950
Anyway, I just wondered whether that was something I thought I could support.

2339
03:27:42,390 --> 03:27:44,730
Don't know how you guys feel about that one.

2340
03:27:47,940 --> 03:27:51,200
Madam chair. Unless I hear like emotion.

2341
03:27:52,000 --> 03:27:58,640
I just want to move us on. Yes, please. I just wanted to let staff know. Our computer back there got kicked out of the meetings.

2342
03:27:59,100 --> 03:28:01,140
That's why that's why the slides disappeared.

2343
03:28:01,140 --> 03:28:06,080
Well, I have notes of the slides, so.

2344
03:28:06,080 --> 03:28:07,900
Were there any other further those?

2345
03:28:08,260 --> 03:28:12,260
Were there any other recommendations that you wanted to consider?

2346
03:28:14,580 --> 03:28:16,420
Well, let's finish with this one.

2347
03:28:16,560 --> 03:28:17,420
So this one's a no.

2348
03:28:17,500 --> 03:28:19,320
There's no second on a motion.

2349
03:28:19,660 --> 03:28:21,640
If I were to make, I'll make a motion.

2350
03:28:21,840 --> 03:28:23,140
But do I have a second on?

2351
03:28:24,460 --> 03:28:26,640
Two internal ELIs.

2352
03:28:27,160 --> 03:28:28,480
If there is not an external.

2353
03:28:28,480 --> 03:28:33,840
It's page 222 of the packet if you're curious and want to get to that slide.

2354
03:28:34,040 --> 03:28:38,500
And that was a planning commission recommendation that you did not age up at all.

2355
03:28:39,880 --> 03:28:45,240
It wasn't in our original recommendation to the planning commission as part of their motion.

2356
03:28:45,600 --> 03:28:47,260
They recommended that to you.

2357
03:28:47,360 --> 03:28:47,960
To us.

2358
03:28:48,540 --> 03:28:49,680
But it's not currently.

2359
03:28:50,040 --> 03:28:50,820
It's not in exhibit.

2360
03:28:51,720 --> 03:28:55,060
So if we did that, I'm just thinking to make sure I understand.

2361
03:28:55,060 --> 03:28:58,320
They could have two of them inside, but they only could rent one.

2362
03:28:58,700 --> 03:28:58,780
Correct.

2363
03:28:59,500 --> 03:29:01,520
You can't rent any ELAs.

2364
03:29:01,900 --> 03:29:05,200
Well, one of them could be converted into an ADO for rent.

2365
03:29:06,260 --> 03:29:09,920
The way it's written right now, you can have one internal and one external.

2366
03:29:10,360 --> 03:29:10,540
Correct.

2367
03:29:10,540 --> 03:29:14,640
As a planning commission is saying, if you don't have an external, you can have two internal.

2368
03:29:14,880 --> 03:29:15,140
Correct.

2369
03:29:15,680 --> 03:29:17,420
But you still can only rent one.

2370
03:29:17,480 --> 03:29:17,860
Correct.

2371
03:29:18,940 --> 03:29:22,560
And no scenario, could you have more than one ADO?

2372
03:29:23,040 --> 03:29:24,380
Whether it's attached or detached.

2373
03:29:24,380 --> 03:29:38,120
You can have, like, for example, one detached ADU rental and one basement apartment for your adult child as an extended living area.

2374
03:29:38,540 --> 03:29:44,320
So there's two fully operational circumstances.

2375
03:29:46,420 --> 03:29:49,840
But you only allowed the one rental on the property.

2376
03:29:49,840 --> 03:29:50,920
So,

2377
03:29:55,080 --> 03:29:59,960
it still allows, what it does is, it would allow for greater flexibility, first.

2378
03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:16,380
Someone that either doesn't have the room to do a detached ADU or can't do a detached ADU, because they are in a lot that's under 10,000 square feet, or sorry under 11,000 square feet, so it gives them some flexibility as well.

2379
03:30:18,570 --> 03:30:21,730
And everything's within the primary footprint of the home and it's not detached.

2380
03:30:24,090 --> 03:30:25,950
Did you get a second,

2381
03:30:28,640 --> 03:30:30,760
I'll just get a second so we can at least,

2382
03:30:35,090 --> 03:30:36,730
and I happen, since

2383
03:30:36,730 --> 03:30:41,830
what I seconded, I happen to like it simply because I feel like all we've done so far

2384
03:30:41,830 --> 03:30:46,090
is more restrictive, this seems to add a little degree of flexibility,

2385
03:30:48,150 --> 03:30:48,690
so we're working

2386
03:30:48,690 --> 03:30:55,160
All right, any, Kayla, let's do roll call vote on that amendment, please.

2387
03:30:55,860 --> 03:30:58,280
Madam Chair, the motion be clarified.

2388
03:31:02,200 --> 03:31:08,400
To allow two internal ELAs if there is not an external one,

2389
03:31:11,040 --> 03:31:12,760
which is plenty commission recommendation.

2390
03:31:13,040 --> 03:31:13,860
Number one.

2391
03:31:14,840 --> 03:31:15,220
Number one.

2392
03:31:15,220 --> 03:31:16,420
And that's in the slides.

2393
03:31:17,140 --> 03:31:18,100
Number one.

2394
03:31:18,980 --> 03:31:21,720
of the exact language of their principles.

2395
03:31:25,190 --> 03:31:25,450
Okay. Okay.

2396
03:31:25,450 --> 03:31:26,070
With this question.

2397
03:31:27,090 --> 03:31:28,430
I already asked for this question.

2398
03:31:28,590 --> 03:31:29,790
I have an affriendly amendment.

2399
03:31:31,550 --> 03:31:31,650
Okay.

2400
03:31:32,270 --> 03:31:36,350
That maybe we look at lot size and put that in there.

2401
03:31:36,810 --> 03:31:43,130
So you don't get a 10,000 square foot lot with three families living in a single unit.

2402
03:31:43,610 --> 03:31:47,730
So it would need to be probably a larger home to begin with

2403
03:31:47,730 --> 03:31:52,170
to house three possible families

2404
03:31:55,120 --> 03:31:58,920
and that's I'm just I mean it's like I think we start if it's

2405
03:31:58,920 --> 03:32:07,920
10,000 square feet and you're allowing three possibly three households I guess three households

2406
03:32:08,820 --> 03:32:18,860
that could start to get pretty tight especially when you start adding in parking but if

2407
03:32:24,650 --> 03:32:26,450
we

2408
03:32:26,450 --> 03:32:29,450
If you have to think, you have to have two sets of questions.

2409
03:32:30,490 --> 03:32:33,930
We cannot require any more parking when they're attached.

2410
03:32:34,310 --> 03:32:35,790
It's part of the main house.

2411
03:32:36,310 --> 03:32:38,350
Because we already required the four.

2412
03:32:38,350 --> 03:32:39,170
That's very important.

2413
03:32:39,870 --> 03:32:40,690
And that's what I mean.

2414
03:32:40,690 --> 03:32:46,150
But the detached state you use, they allow us to require additional parking.

2415
03:32:46,350 --> 03:32:46,750
For now.

2416
03:32:46,910 --> 03:32:47,110
For now.

2417
03:32:47,110 --> 03:32:50,890
For the one or two, if it's over 650.

2418
03:32:51,770 --> 03:32:52,410
Sort of something.

2419
03:32:53,990 --> 03:33:02,450
What would you, what would the square footage go to, would it be to the lot of studies or to think on the lot size?

2420
03:33:02,470 --> 03:33:06,250
Because then you could find more places for parking.

2421
03:33:06,530 --> 03:33:12,230
And there's more bodies on the larger lots.

2422
03:33:12,610 --> 03:33:16,170
You know, I think, you know, on a home because then you look as well, then I'll add an addition.

2423
03:33:16,770 --> 03:33:19,730
But if it, the lot is going to stay a fixed size.

2424
03:33:19,730 --> 03:33:28,180
So, does this, and with this right now the way it's written this applies to everything, this isn't in the category of 11,000.

2425
03:33:28,380 --> 03:33:34,620
So, this is in the category of general requirements that applies to all attached or detached scenarios.

2426
03:33:38,100 --> 03:33:45,600
Yeah, I could go for that. Either way, I'm a no, because, yeah, 20,000,

2427
03:33:50,280 --> 03:33:51,040
I could do that.

2428
03:33:55,360 --> 03:33:59,200
Okay, so we have an amended motion, would you say, for the clarity,

2429
03:34:00,120 --> 03:34:04,980
Mesharky, for the record, would you say that revised motion?

2430
03:34:05,660 --> 03:34:10,540
Revised to apply it to only lots that are over 20,000 square feet.

2431
03:34:11,500 --> 03:34:17,900
That they could have two internal adios or extended luminaries.

2432
03:34:18,340 --> 03:34:19,860
Okay, so fully set up.

2433
03:34:19,860 --> 03:34:20,740
Wouldn't they have no details?

2434
03:34:21,160 --> 03:34:22,020
Got it, okay.

2435
03:34:22,280 --> 03:34:22,700
I've got that.

2436
03:34:22,700 --> 03:34:28,480
So just for the record for us, so it's allowed to internal ELA's if there is not an external

2437
03:34:28,480 --> 03:34:31,780
ELA and a lot is over 20,000 square feet.

2438
03:34:33,200 --> 03:34:34,080
That's what I'm hearing.

2439
03:34:34,260 --> 03:34:39,460
So we have a motion and I also second the amendment, I'm good with that's fine.

2440
03:34:40,060 --> 03:34:42,380
So let's go and do roll call vote on that, please.

2441
03:34:43,540 --> 03:34:51,540
Thank you Madam Chair, Ms. Sharking, yes, Ms. Hasman, yes, Ms. Christianson, yes,

2442
03:34:51,540 --> 03:34:53,100
Mr. DeKaiser?

2443
03:34:53,680 --> 03:34:54,320
Yes.

2444
03:34:55,500 --> 03:34:56,300
Mr. Stroud?

2445
03:34:56,600 --> 03:34:56,740
Yes.

2446
03:34:57,480 --> 03:34:58,140
Ms. Nichol?

2447
03:34:58,800 --> 03:34:58,860
Yes.

2448
03:35:00,000 --> 03:35:02,260
That I'm sure that motion carried 6 to 0.

2449
03:35:04,610 --> 03:35:06,450
All right, does that take care of all of our amendments?

2450
03:35:07,470 --> 03:35:14,270
I'll make a motion to allow all of this on 10,000 square foot lots.

2451
03:35:15,010 --> 03:35:15,690
Instead of 11,

2452
03:35:17,780 --> 03:35:21,580
it's adding flexibility. 11,000 is...

2453
03:35:21,580 --> 03:35:25,060
That's right now, right? I want to take that down to 10,000.

2454
03:35:25,140 --> 03:35:28,620
That's that would be planning commission for recommendation number 5.

2455
03:35:29,200 --> 03:35:31,240
I understand. Thank you.

2456
03:35:31,240 --> 03:35:36,660
And that was one I thought I remember right, I agree, to accept that.

2457
03:35:36,660 --> 03:35:37,740
I think the Christian recommendation.

2458
03:35:39,940 --> 03:35:42,060
So anyone want a second?

2459
03:35:42,840 --> 03:35:43,880
You did.

2460
03:35:44,360 --> 03:35:45,740
Okay, sorry, I didn't hear it.

2461
03:35:45,740 --> 03:35:47,660
So we have a motion second discussion on the motion.

2462
03:35:50,600 --> 03:35:55,600
Okay, then we'll do roll call vote on accepting planning commission number.

2463
03:35:55,860 --> 03:35:57,260
Recommendation number five.

2464
03:36:00,380 --> 03:36:00,940
Miss Nikol.

2465
03:36:01,120 --> 03:36:01,400
Yes.

2466
03:36:01,700 --> 03:36:02,540
Mr. DeKaiser.

2467
03:36:02,740 --> 03:36:02,960
Yes.

2468
03:36:03,540 --> 03:36:04,480
It's strong.

2469
03:36:05,860 --> 03:36:05,900
No.

2470
03:36:07,100 --> 03:36:07,840
Ms. Houseman?

2471
03:36:08,100 --> 03:36:08,160
Yes.

2472
03:36:08,980 --> 03:36:09,700
Ms. Sharkey?

2473
03:36:12,120 --> 03:36:12,880
Ms. Christian said.

2474
03:36:15,100 --> 03:36:18,980
Madam Chair, that resulted in a tie of three to three, the motion failed.

2475
03:36:20,100 --> 03:36:20,320
Okay.

2476
03:36:20,380 --> 03:36:24,900
I don't have any others, but I would like them to go through each and exhibit eight.

2477
03:36:25,020 --> 03:36:29,960
It pertains to conversions of sheds and that type of thing.

2478
03:36:29,960 --> 03:36:34,300
I just want some clarification on that for me, guys.

2479
03:36:36,120 --> 03:36:38,040
What did you have though?

2480
03:36:38,380 --> 03:36:45,480
So, was this scenario that you could only have living space in the setback, right?

2481
03:36:45,580 --> 03:36:53,220
So, if you had a structure that was encroaching over a setback, you couldn't have that as a living space, right?

2482
03:36:53,300 --> 03:36:54,780
You could just have it earlier.

2483
03:36:56,000 --> 03:36:56,660
That's correct.

2484
03:36:58,940 --> 03:37:02,600
And then the Planning Commission made an additional recommendation.

2485
03:37:03,140 --> 03:37:09,080
They were presented at a use case of an existing building that didn't comply with that.

2486
03:37:09,600 --> 03:37:13,360
And so they did recommend the language shown on the screen here,

2487
03:37:13,520 --> 03:37:15,960
which is item number nine of their recommendations.

2488
03:37:17,280 --> 03:37:21,580
Slide our page 229 of the packet.

2489
03:37:22,120 --> 03:37:25,320
That includes this additional provision that they're recommending.

2490
03:37:25,320 --> 03:37:29,120
So it's a additional language that was not in the Exhibet A.

2491
03:37:29,120 --> 03:37:30,840
So staff's initial rendition.

2492
03:37:30,880 --> 03:37:31,140
I don't

2493
03:37:34,720 --> 03:37:35,460
want to request this.

2494
03:37:36,120 --> 03:37:36,400
OK.

2495
03:37:36,400 --> 03:37:38,800
OK, so I believe that's all of our amendments.

2496
03:37:39,220 --> 03:37:44,940
Before we move to adopt, we do have public comment on this item.

2497
03:37:45,320 --> 03:37:49,700
Thank you to our public who's been waiting patiently for their opportunity to share

2498
03:37:49,700 --> 03:37:51,260
thoughts on item number eight.

2499
03:37:51,500 --> 03:37:53,120
We'll start with Julie.

2500
03:38:05,110 --> 03:38:06,490
I want to thank you.

2501
03:38:06,490 --> 03:38:13,770
I know that you all received an email for me today, and I guess I'm going to kind of be

2502
03:38:13,770 --> 03:38:22,470
out of doing an ADU, but going over my email, I do appreciate the opportunity as a citizen

2503
03:38:22,970 --> 03:38:31,230
of Sandy Yuton property owner at 9135 Stillwater Circle, the chance to build an ADU on my property.

2504
03:38:31,230 --> 03:38:37,930
as a recent widow in having a daughter and her family that had been priced out of the

2505
03:38:37,930 --> 03:38:45,990
housing market and her husband has medical issues and having to move every couple of

2506
03:38:45,990 --> 03:38:52,950
years because the house they are running then the owner wants to sell it and seeing the

2507
03:38:52,950 --> 03:39:00,250
financial cost of just renting and renting and coming up with that downpayment and all

2508
03:39:00,250 --> 03:39:04,470
emotional costs too, especially on children to have to keep moving.

2509
03:39:07,070 --> 03:39:13,490
So, and actually my daughter who lives in Salt Lake City, another daughter is living in

2510
03:39:13,490 --> 03:39:20,470
an area where there have been ADUs added recently, and she's the one that came up with the

2511
03:39:20,470 --> 03:39:23,410
idea, and their neighborhood loves them.

2512
03:39:23,650 --> 03:39:24,750
It's been a good thing.

2513
03:39:24,750 --> 03:39:32,750
I see building an A to U on my property is an excellent solution to me to having family around

2514
03:39:32,750 --> 03:39:39,450
as I grow older and to give them a chance to get ahead in life and have a stable home life.

2515
03:39:40,350 --> 03:39:48,850
So I was excited when I was reading the planning commission meeting minutes for August 6

2516
03:39:48,850 --> 03:39:52,610
when they did recommend the 10,000 square feet.

2517
03:39:53,730 --> 03:39:56,690
Because I think that opens it up for a lot more of us

2518
03:39:56,690 --> 03:39:59,950
because if you'll notice it, my house...

2519
03:40:00,000 --> 03:40:09,300
This is on a lot, 10,890 square feet. So I think that's going to eliminate me unless they have some leeway.

2520
03:40:10,540 --> 03:40:27,220
When you look at the assessor structure, rules and definitions, they were created for the definition and accessory structure building is a detached subordinate building.

2521
03:40:27,220 --> 03:40:31,520
It is customarily incidental to and located on the same

2522
03:40:31,520 --> 03:40:38,040
lot as the main residential or primary building such as detached garages, sheds, or workshops.

2523
03:40:39,120 --> 03:40:43,500
So using that definition, they came up with that table that we saw

2524
03:40:44,580 --> 03:40:48,800
that the maximum size and the accessory structure.

2525
03:40:50,260 --> 03:40:53,580
And that was for a building that was never meant to be lived in.

2526
03:40:53,580 --> 03:40:59,740
And ADU is a place for people to live in, at home, and not a garage, shed, or workshop.

2527
03:41:00,480 --> 03:41:04,740
There needs to be a little bit more leeway, because the table as it is,

2528
03:41:04,900 --> 03:41:07,640
hinders the options of providing livable housing.

2529
03:41:09,160 --> 03:41:09,780
Okay.

2530
03:41:10,640 --> 03:41:12,730
Anyway, thank you.

2531
03:41:15,540 --> 03:41:16,580
Thank you.

2532
03:41:17,100 --> 03:41:18,920
Next, we have Emma Glenn.

2533
03:41:21,120 --> 03:41:24,100
If I was pronounced, your last name.

2534
03:41:24,380 --> 03:41:24,780
Thank you.

2535
03:41:24,860 --> 03:41:25,900
Glad to be.

2536
03:41:25,920 --> 03:41:26,500
My apologies.

2537
03:41:26,760 --> 03:41:27,320
Thank you.

2538
03:41:27,560 --> 03:41:29,080
Glad to be.

2539
03:41:29,080 --> 03:41:29,360
All right.

2540
03:41:29,880 --> 03:41:30,800
My name's Emma Glendy.

2541
03:41:30,860 --> 03:41:32,460
I'm one of Julie's granddaughters.

2542
03:41:32,560 --> 03:41:34,360
And I'm actually a city planner for the city of

2543
03:41:34,360 --> 03:41:35,180
Columnwood Heights.

2544
03:41:35,580 --> 03:41:36,700
I'm going to finish her.

2545
03:41:36,720 --> 03:41:37,440
She is saying.

2546
03:41:38,680 --> 03:41:43,460
She's saying that again her property is 10,890 square

2547
03:41:43,460 --> 03:41:45,840
feet so you can even consider 10,880 square feet.

2548
03:41:45,840 --> 03:41:47,180
You'd be down with that too.

2549
03:41:47,180 --> 03:41:52,140
She does need at least a two-bedroom ADU for kind of her Libyan situation.

2550
03:41:52,600 --> 03:41:56,240
The plan she's looking at would potentially be 820 square feet.

2551
03:41:56,460 --> 03:42:01,420
Her backyard is about 4,000 square feet, so 25% of the backyard would give us 1,000 square

2552
03:42:01,420 --> 03:42:05,040
feet, which would make it possible to even potentially have a three-bedroom.

2553
03:42:05,800 --> 03:42:10,800
But when you apply the rules for accessory structures, she can have the lesser of 750 square

2554
03:42:10,800 --> 03:42:12,560
feet or 25% of the backyard.

2555
03:42:12,560 --> 03:42:23,120
The 750 square feet is not quite enough for what she's looking for, for even the example of the two-bedroom ADU in the slide presentation requires 800 square feet.

2556
03:42:24,400 --> 03:42:26,480
Why can't the rules for an ADU be their own rules?

2557
03:42:26,680 --> 03:42:35,660
You've taken the two feet set back for side property line and the rear yard and rear property line for accessory buildings and changed the set back for an ADU to be 10 feet for both situations.

2558
03:42:36,260 --> 03:42:41,660
This table of maximum accessory structure size is based on property size and for an accessory structure.

2559
03:42:42,980 --> 03:42:50,240
So, right now, the alternative maximum size for accessory structures is extremely limiting for livable housing,

2560
03:42:50,700 --> 03:42:54,340
especially for smaller homeowners and wouldn't allow my grandma to proceed with their plan.

2561
03:42:54,860 --> 03:42:59,600
The 25% of her rear yard would allow her to have a two-bedroom ADU, but the table won't.

2562
03:43:00,140 --> 03:43:06,440
She says, I don't see any of you discussions about the alternate maximum accessory structure size table and how it relates to ADUs.

2563
03:43:06,740 --> 03:43:12,660
I'm asking you to look at that table and create a table of maximum ADUs structure size, taking into account the purpose of an ADU.

2564
03:43:13,080 --> 03:43:18,660
And what is already available in sizes for ADUs that are cost effective and can give occupants a livable environment.

2565
03:43:19,080 --> 03:43:23,820
The maximum needs to be increased to allow some flexibility, especially for smaller property sizes.

2566
03:43:23,820 --> 03:43:28,140
She also says she's very appreciative that Sandy City is looking into expanding housing options.

2567
03:43:28,560 --> 03:43:30,960
That will allow people in all walks of life to benefit.

2568
03:43:31,540 --> 03:43:35,740
Plus, she loves the idea of multi-generational housing that allows families to stay together,

2569
03:43:36,100 --> 03:43:39,340
caring for one another, and able to remain in Sandy City.

2570
03:43:39,840 --> 03:43:43,780
And since I've 50 more seconds, I'd also like to add in-comment heights.

2571
03:43:44,240 --> 03:43:48,440
Right now, the minimum loss for a D-tash ADU is 6,000 square feet.

2572
03:43:48,440 --> 03:44:01,660
I have to say, we probably get three applications for a detache to you every single year, as someone who's looking to say for my own house someday, it is really disturbing seeing the housing prices increase.

2573
03:44:02,040 --> 03:44:11,120
Currently, 91% of Utahans cannot afford a median price home, so I think any solution to an increase in affordable housing options is excellent.

2574
03:44:11,120 --> 03:44:17,140
So I would consider, I would recommend, I mean, honestly, not even having a minimum law size

2575
03:44:17,140 --> 03:44:23,260
would be incredible for ADUs, just because all the other restrictions already reduce the

2576
03:44:23,260 --> 03:44:28,560
properties where an ADU would be an option. Even 10,000 square feet would give it a lot more

2577
03:44:28,560 --> 03:44:33,440
people options. ADUs are expensive so that you're not going to see a billion coming through. Thanks.

2578
03:44:34,520 --> 03:44:38,720
Thank you. And there are last one on item number eight is a Dell clerk.

2579
03:44:47,300 --> 03:44:48,460
Thank you for listening to

2580
03:44:48,460 --> 03:44:54,420
for a second time tonight. I just want you to know that I have a hundred percent disabled

2581
03:44:55,380 --> 03:44:59,540
that living in my basement, and I don't consider it in e-halle.

2582
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:15,240
I consider it a gift to be able to provide him space to live. My son lived in Texas for the past three or four years and the Texas market, the rental market, pushed him out of being able to rent.

2583
03:45:16,080 --> 03:45:24,120
So my son was this close to being on the street. He was already going to food pantries to get food. So I hadn't come home.

2584
03:45:24,120 --> 03:45:32,980
So, I want you to consider that my ELA, as you would call it, isn't an ELA to me at all.

2585
03:45:33,460 --> 03:45:36,620
It's a gift to him, to be able to help him.

2586
03:45:37,200 --> 03:45:38,580
I have a half acre.

2587
03:45:38,940 --> 03:45:46,020
As you know, I have a spot picked out on my half acre to build another garage, and I have plans for that garage.

2588
03:45:46,740 --> 03:45:52,080
And that garage has living space above it that would go above your 20-foot rule.

2589
03:45:52,080 --> 03:46:00,380
It is in the back corner of my lot, it is surrounded by trees on my neighbors, on both sides.

2590
03:46:01,360 --> 03:46:10,720
It's not going to impact anybody for me to be able to build that, but it's going to be another gift to my son to give him space.

2591
03:46:11,740 --> 03:46:13,920
This is a hundred percent disabled vet.

2592
03:46:13,920 --> 03:46:22,480
And I don't think you guys have considered all of the different applications or people and their concerns.

2593
03:46:22,880 --> 03:46:27,100
I didn't know anything about the ADU until I came in for my other issue.

2594
03:46:27,540 --> 03:46:30,900
But I am intrigued by what is going on here and quite honestly.

2595
03:46:31,580 --> 03:46:34,160
Mr. DeKaiser and Ms. Houseman.

2596
03:46:34,500 --> 03:46:38,600
I am with you a hundred percent that you're going to have to be less restrictive.

2597
03:46:38,600 --> 03:46:50,040
And I believe that what is past you're going to end up changing within a year because of the needs of the people that are out there

2598
03:46:50,040 --> 03:46:52,300
And I don't think you're considering everything

2599
03:46:53,240 --> 03:46:57,960
So I'm not going to give up my 56 seconds. I don't know if you can do that

2600
03:46:57,960 --> 03:47:08,300
But I just want you to know that this issue is near and dear to me and I didn't realize that it was even a process that was going through Sandy City until I came in

2601
03:47:08,300 --> 03:47:15,800
my other issue. So thank you both for trying to get more and not less. My

2602
03:47:15,800 --> 03:47:22,220
son deserves more and not less. He fought for this country. He deserves more.

2603
03:47:23,040 --> 03:47:30,560
Thank you. Thank you. That is all of the blue cards I have for this item.

2604
03:47:31,140 --> 03:47:36,060
We'll go to those in our online Mr. Fraddle, please. Of course, thank you Madam Chair.

2605
03:47:36,060 --> 03:47:47,040
If you're joining us virtually this evening and you'd like to comment on item number 8, which are amendments to Title 21 related to ADUs, go ahead and click the raise hand button now.

2606
03:47:47,540 --> 03:47:51,760
I'll call your name in the order which you raised your hand and you'll have three minutes.

2607
03:48:08,910 --> 03:48:10,070
I'm not saying any hands raised Madam Chair.

2608
03:48:12,010 --> 03:48:16,810
Okay, then we will go ahead and close public comments on this item and bring it back to the council.

2609
03:48:17,330 --> 03:48:21,790
Can I believe Ms. Christensen you are going to?

2610
03:48:21,790 --> 03:48:34,790
motion to approve, to adopt ordinance 2655 to amend Title 21 with the four changes that were voted on tonight and approved.

2611
03:48:43,420 --> 03:48:47,620
We have a motion in the second. I just want to clarify process here.

2612
03:48:49,160 --> 03:48:54,780
Because we have voted on each of the amendments, we're now voting on the package.

2613
03:48:55,900 --> 03:49:02,180
Yes. So, Council Member Christensen's motion was to adopt this ordinance with the changes

2614
03:49:02,180 --> 03:49:07,260
that were voted on this evening. So, yes, you'd be adopting it with those changes.

2615
03:49:07,680 --> 03:49:09,240
Yes, it's to do that.

2616
03:49:09,380 --> 03:49:15,440
Road yes is to adopt what if I'm still opposed to the changes that I've already voted

2617
03:49:15,440 --> 03:49:15,540
no.

2618
03:49:15,540 --> 03:49:21,080
Will the Council's given direction to include those changes? And so, you would vote no to the

2619
03:49:21,080 --> 03:49:26,360
motion to adopt the ordinance. Okay. And if you vote no, again, the council has to

2620
03:49:26,360 --> 03:49:31,240
it. If it doesn't pass, the council has to adopt something before October 1st,

2621
03:49:31,420 --> 03:49:38,600
statutory. And so we would need to probably continue discussion to see what we would need

2622
03:49:38,600 --> 03:49:45,280
to do to get to four folks voting. Yes. Okay. Thank you for clarifying. So we have motion

2623
03:49:45,280 --> 03:49:46,900
Wait a second. Any discussion?

2624
03:49:50,390 --> 03:49:50,530
I'm sure.

2625
03:49:52,170 --> 03:49:55,590
So to the members of the audience into my council

2626
03:49:55,590 --> 03:49:56,230
colleagues,

2627
03:49:58,650 --> 03:49:59,950
I would.

2628
03:50:00,000 --> 03:50:11,080
We expect that we will see tweaks. I think that is the plan. I think that's even sort of been suggested by the Community Development Department by the Planning Department.

2629
03:50:12,620 --> 03:50:28,920
We didn't have a lot of time to come around to casting this vote tonight. This is potentially pretty impactful. We understand that. We support it. It's something that we voted on as a council on our moderate income housing plan that we would allow these.

2630
03:50:28,920 --> 03:50:44,200
Then what we got was the state deciding a baseline of requirements which we have to adopt and then a short period of time for us to consider some tweaks that are allowed under the law.

2631
03:50:44,340 --> 03:50:47,720
That's why we went over the musts and shelves and stuff like that.

2632
03:50:47,720 --> 03:50:56,940
So to my council colleagues, I am of a mind that we will probably make changes sooner than

2633
03:50:56,940 --> 03:50:57,780
rather than later.

2634
03:50:58,340 --> 03:51:02,320
And it could be an association with the land development code creation.

2635
03:51:04,240 --> 03:51:06,460
So I'm open to that.

2636
03:51:07,300 --> 03:51:08,460
I expect that.

2637
03:51:08,920 --> 03:51:13,480
I just want to make sure we get in the area of unintended consequences.

2638
03:51:13,480 --> 03:51:21,380
I was having a discussion with someone earlier saying, I'm also worried about the placement

2639
03:51:21,380 --> 03:51:28,540
on the lot, because I've seen this before, so far, we're looking at is EDUs that are

2640
03:51:28,540 --> 03:51:33,660
in the corners. But what if they're not in the corners? And I've seen a really bad example

2641
03:51:33,660 --> 03:51:40,960
of that in the past. And so I wonder if we also need to consider the placement of these on the

2642
03:51:40,960 --> 03:51:47,340
we do or whether we don't, I've just seen a really a very, very, a horrible example recently

2643
03:51:48,940 --> 03:51:56,260
of where someone had placed an accessory dwelling at a point on their lot that was really,

2644
03:51:56,260 --> 03:51:58,760
really impactful to the next door neighbors.

2645
03:51:59,520 --> 03:52:03,060
And so I do wonder whether that's something we need to consider.

2646
03:52:03,280 --> 03:52:10,140
I'm expecting that what we'll see is some questions, problems, issues come up that we need

2647
03:52:11,760 --> 03:52:29,880
I just want to express to my fellow colleagues my openness to apply tweaks, but I like this starting point of where we are, although yes to it and keep my eyes and ears open for other changes that we should or need to make.

2648
03:52:32,890 --> 03:52:41,670
I can't wait to make changes to it, again, because it's very flawed that way of this right now, but I think it's a very good baseline.

2649
03:52:43,850 --> 03:52:55,410
And I would like staff to update us at some point on if the applications and the process and how it's going, so we can anticipate this when we're looking at it again, hopefully next year.

2650
03:52:59,410 --> 03:53:11,610
And I, I, I, I, I, too think that this will be, um, um, very dynamic, you know, and as things come up, then we can look at it, oh, yeah, you know, that there's a lot of potential things on there.

2651
03:53:11,990 --> 03:53:11,990
Um,

2652
03:53:14,330 --> 03:53:21,810
great now. Here's one. I, I, in my head, I've always kind of thought they love in thousand square feet as being kind of quarter acre.

2653
03:53:22,410 --> 03:53:25,410
but it's not. It's 10,000, 800, 90.

2654
03:53:26,970 --> 03:53:29,730
I mean, would we look at maybe just saying quarter acre?

2655
03:53:29,950 --> 03:53:31,530
I don't know what that does with it.

2656
03:53:31,870 --> 03:53:35,290
My head has always been that's what that quarter acre is.

2657
03:53:35,970 --> 03:53:36,830
So I don't know if, you know,

2658
03:53:36,930 --> 03:53:38,670
friendly amendment of adjusting to say,

2659
03:53:38,790 --> 03:53:40,970
it's a quarter acre, you know,

2660
03:53:40,970 --> 03:53:43,890
if that's easier or if it's if we truly have gone by.

2661
03:53:43,890 --> 03:53:45,550
I know an hour code,

2662
03:53:45,550 --> 03:53:51,130
often it's, I mean, we see that, you know,

2663
03:53:51,130 --> 03:53:56,630
we go strictly by the, you know, thousand square feet, but if it was that quarter acre

2664
03:53:56,630 --> 03:54:01,810
if that makes more, I mean, maybe in public size, it does make more sense and it could

2665
03:54:01,810 --> 03:54:05,850
address, you know, maybe a little bit of the issue. So I don't, I mean, and if not, I know

2666
03:54:05,850 --> 03:54:10,790
it's already muddy and we've done whatever, but I think the standard is the based on the

2667
03:54:10,790 --> 03:54:19,130
square footage of the land. Right. And so I think if you add .25, it would actually, another

2668
03:54:19,130 --> 03:54:29,230
And I can probably limit more than, that's, and I, yeah, it's just money.

2669
03:54:29,570 --> 03:54:34,710
Okay, go, is it really the difference of quarter acre versus that 110 square feet?

2670
03:54:34,850 --> 03:54:37,070
You know, if that was, but yeah, if it's then.

2671
03:54:42,980 --> 03:54:46,320
Okay, I think we have had our discussion.

2672
03:54:46,800 --> 03:54:47,820
Roll call, though, please.

2673
03:54:49,800 --> 03:54:50,480
Ms. Christensen.

2674
03:54:50,820 --> 03:54:51,080
Yes.

2675
03:54:51,760 --> 03:54:52,400
Ms. Nichol.

2676
03:54:52,780 --> 03:54:53,120
Yes.

2677
03:54:53,120 --> 03:54:55,120
Ms. Houseman?

2678
03:54:55,300 --> 03:54:55,760
No.

2679
03:54:57,180 --> 03:54:57,800
Ms. Sharky?

2680
03:54:58,400 --> 03:54:58,600
Yes.

2681
03:55:00,000 --> 03:55:01,040
Mr. De Kaiser.

2682
03:55:01,820 --> 03:55:01,840
No.

2683
03:55:03,320 --> 03:55:04,120
Mr. Trump.

2684
03:55:04,520 --> 03:55:04,660
Yes.

2685
03:55:06,340 --> 03:55:09,480
Madam Chair, that motion carried forward to two.

2686
03:55:09,820 --> 03:55:16,260
Thank you. Thank you, staff, for walking us through all of that and continuing to answer questions.

2687
03:55:17,080 --> 03:55:17,980
Thank you very much.

2688
03:55:18,940 --> 03:55:22,900
So moving on, our next item is actually a closed session.

2689
03:55:23,900 --> 03:55:29,360
And so we would likely want to take council or standing reports first.

2690
03:55:29,360 --> 03:55:35,720
And then a motion to move into close session at a adjourn from there, so if we could start over here with Sandy reports, please.

2691
03:55:36,340 --> 03:55:37,460
Of course, thank you, Madam Chair.

2692
03:55:38,140 --> 03:55:40,340
I'll just quickly go over the calendar for next week.

2693
03:55:40,440 --> 03:55:43,220
I don't have any other information to report this time.

2694
03:55:43,980 --> 03:55:51,060
We do have a information report for an ILA with Salt Lake County for our special bond election.

2695
03:55:51,420 --> 03:55:55,620
We're going to get an update on Wildland and deployment from Chief McConaughey.

2696
03:55:57,000 --> 03:56:02,980
We also will have on the agenda notification of an upcoming vacancy on the Metro Waterboard.

2697
03:56:03,640 --> 03:56:09,280
So John Kirkham's appointment is expiring the council will need to consider re-appointing

2698
03:56:09,280 --> 03:56:11,740
him or appointing someone else to go through that process.

2699
03:56:13,300 --> 03:56:18,520
We have a discussion on adjusting the management study schedule, moving PDA year sooner.

2700
03:56:18,520 --> 03:56:22,020
And then we have our public meeting in public hearing

2701
03:56:22,020 --> 03:56:25,540
as related to the bond election.

2702
03:56:25,800 --> 03:56:27,780
So we have the transparency meeting,

2703
03:56:27,820 --> 03:56:31,460
and then we have the ballot proposition public hearing.

2704
03:56:32,900 --> 03:56:35,560
And that's it at this point in next week's agenda.

2705
03:56:36,340 --> 03:56:37,060
So thank you, Manager.

2706
03:56:40,190 --> 03:56:40,750
Any updates?

2707
03:56:42,780 --> 03:56:44,080
Let's go super fast.

2708
03:56:44,180 --> 03:56:45,620
Appreciate the healing field.

2709
03:56:45,880 --> 03:56:51,200
It was just another fantastic event and always impactful.

2710
03:56:51,200 --> 03:56:59,300
and I hope we do it forever so. I also appreciate public utilities reaching out to council members

2711
03:56:59,300 --> 03:57:07,000
and asking to have small group meetings to just discuss storm drains, the storms that we've

2712
03:57:07,000 --> 03:57:13,360
had in the impacts and I appreciate the outreach from public utilities and the desire to sit down

2713
03:57:13,360 --> 03:57:19,540
and talk and really talk about everything that happened. I also want to I'm sure they're not listening

2714
03:57:19,540 --> 03:57:24,160
but express appreciation to my colleagues in Cottonwood Heights.

2715
03:57:24,940 --> 03:57:29,520
They hosted a screening of a documentary called The Lake,

2716
03:57:29,920 --> 03:57:32,320
which was a Sundance Film Festival winner.

2717
03:57:32,900 --> 03:57:35,860
And they got aside from myself.

2718
03:57:36,100 --> 03:57:39,360
There were also other elected officials that came to see that.

2719
03:57:39,360 --> 03:57:41,600
It was all about the great Salt Lake.

2720
03:57:42,520 --> 03:57:44,480
And the need to refill the lake.

2721
03:57:44,480 --> 03:57:47,800
and so I appreciate that they recognize

2722
03:57:47,800 --> 03:57:50,600
the selected officials and welcome

2723
03:57:50,600 --> 03:57:52,360
to us to be there as well.

2724
03:57:52,680 --> 03:57:53,320
That's it.

2725
03:57:53,340 --> 03:57:54,040
Thank you.

2726
03:57:54,900 --> 03:57:56,000
I just wanted to remind everyone

2727
03:57:56,000 --> 03:57:58,100
that the Heritage Festival is the Saturday

2728
03:57:58,100 --> 03:58:05,860
from 1032 at Main Street Park for not busy come.

2729
03:58:05,860 --> 03:58:08,700
And I have another story, but I'll see

2730
03:58:08,700 --> 03:58:10,460
if it's only a factual staff here.

2731
03:58:14,690 --> 03:58:20,150
I wanted to thank Chris, Ms. Edwards, and the youth council.

2732
03:58:20,830 --> 03:58:24,390
You know, you did a quite a bit of work, so at the healing fields,

2733
03:58:25,050 --> 03:58:29,430
setting up flags there, and then also on Saturday with bumps across America,

2734
03:58:29,710 --> 03:58:34,250
where they were able to help build 94 beds for children here in Utah.

2735
03:58:34,670 --> 03:58:44,670
For those that would need them, and then a couple of them were helping out with the

2736
03:58:44,670 --> 03:58:50,930
There was a competition this weekend, which was Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday where

2737
03:58:50,930 --> 03:58:57,810
more than 50 teams throughout the state competed and Sandy placed in narcotics, tactical

2738
03:58:57,810 --> 03:59:03,570
obedience, agility, tracking, criminal apprehension and tough dog, so taking a lot of awards

2739
03:59:03,570 --> 03:59:03,990
through that.

2740
03:59:04,610 --> 03:59:10,470
So, well done for a push department, and then, so historic committee, also had a meeting last

2741
03:59:10,470 --> 03:59:21,090
And, you know, going through, you know, very similar as their rebook, or they're looking at their code rewrite as well, and actively engaged in that process and working with planning on that.

2742
03:59:22,550 --> 03:59:25,170
But, I think is it. Can I turn?

2743
03:59:27,520 --> 03:59:28,920
Moving on to administration, please.

2744
03:59:29,840 --> 03:59:31,920
We don't have anything this evening. Thank you.

2745
03:59:32,200 --> 03:59:39,220
Okay. So, we need to clarify who will be joining us in close session and then I'll need a motion.

2746
03:59:39,220 --> 03:59:45,700
To move into closed session followed by adjournment from closed session, who's going to be joined?

2747
03:59:45,940 --> 03:59:51,560
It would be myself, Ryan Meekham, our city attorney, and then our chief of police, Ethan Curtis,

2748
03:59:54,800 --> 03:59:56,420
and Cory Homingash.

2749
03:59:57,220 --> 03:59:58,380
It's the only half working.

2750
03:59:58,520 --> 03:59:59,380
It's the foot, right?

2751
03:59:59,580 --> 03:59:59,780
Yeah.

2752
04:00:00,270 --> 04:00:12,250
Put in mouth right there. Corry, please join us. Corry has. Yes, yes. Was that, were good then? Yep, so we need, we'll just need the motion.

2753
04:00:12,550 --> 04:00:23,190
Motion to go into closed session to discuss tab and discussion regarding deployment of security, personnel, devices, or systems, and thereafter adjourned the city council meeting.

2754
04:00:23,190 --> 04:00:27,270
All second and that is roll call, right?

2755
04:00:27,530 --> 04:00:28,190
Go call, please.

2756
04:00:29,710 --> 04:00:31,330
Ms. Sharkey, yes.

2757
04:00:32,470 --> 04:00:33,070
Ms. Hasman?

2758
04:00:34,210 --> 04:00:35,630
Ms. Christian said, yes.

2759
04:00:36,070 --> 04:00:36,890
Mr. Dick Heiser?

2760
04:00:37,690 --> 04:00:37,950
Yes.

2761
04:00:39,070 --> 04:00:40,090
Ms. Stroud? Yes.

2762
04:00:40,270 --> 04:00:40,970
Ms. Nichol.

2763
04:00:48,300 --> 04:00:48,840
Madam Chair.

2764
04:00:49,620 --> 04:00:50,020
Go ahead.

2765
04:00:50,940 --> 04:00:52,560
Motion carried five to zero.

2766
04:00:53,600 --> 04:00:56,020
And for the record, the close session will just be here at City Hall.