1 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:07,079 Are we good to go? Thank you. Councelor McRoberts and Councelor Burl, can you 2 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,079 move us into camera? 3 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:13,440 I move that Sarnia City Council move into close session persuant to section 4 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:18,239 2392B, EF, and K of the municipal act and to 5 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:21,920 consider the following matters. Consideration will be given to a request 6 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:25,360 to name municipal property. Consideration will be given to 7 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:29,440 negotiations and advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege regarding 8 00:02:27,599 --> 00:02:32,720 a land lease at the airport. And consideration will be given to advice 9 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:36,080 that is subject to solicitor client privilege with respect to a lease 10 00:02:34,239 --> 00:02:40,560 agreement. >> Second by councelor Burl. All in favor? 11 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:46,040 Okay, we will go to in camera and we'll return back to report out at one 12 00:02:42,239 --> 00:02:46,040 o'clock. Thank you everyone. 13 00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:08,690 Audio test one, two. Audio test one, two. [cough and clears throat] 14 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:05,840 Elsa, are we good to go? Thank you. >> In this peace, in the spirit of peace 15 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:09,519 and friendship, we honor the Nishmeck of the Three Fires Confederacy on whose 16 00:32:07,679 --> 00:32:13,039 traditional territory we are gathered. The city of Sarnia has resolved to 17 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:19,279 implement the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People. 18 00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:24,279 And with that, I will now ask if you can stand for O Canada and then a moment of 19 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,279 silent reflection. 20 00:32:33,887 --> 00:32:35,907 [singing and music] 21 00:32:36,159 --> 00:32:52,282 our home and native land. [music] True patri love [music] 22 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:52,282 in all of us. [singing] 23 00:32:52,480 --> 00:33:09,279 With glowing hearts we see the rise. The [singing] true north strong and free. 24 00:33:03,362 --> 00:33:15,600 [music] From far and wide of Canada, we [singing] stand on God for thee. 25 00:33:13,842 --> 00:33:21,102 [music] God [singing] 26 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,102 keep our land. [music] 27 00:33:21,279 --> 00:33:26,343 Glorious [singing] and free. [music] 28 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:34,320 Oh Canada, [music] we stand [singing] 29 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:38,720 on guard for thee. [music] 30 00:33:37,423 --> 00:33:44,159 [singing] Oh Canada, 31 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,159 we [music] stand [singing] on 32 00:33:47,903 --> 00:33:49,923 [music] 33 00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:06,519 Thank you. 34 00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:15,919 » Councelor McRoberts, can you move the report from the in camera, please? 35 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:20,079 » The SNIA City Council rise and report. I report that we provided direction to 36 00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:26,320 staff regarding a request to name a municipal property at Kenwick Park. We 37 00:34:23,919 --> 00:34:32,320 also gave direction ready to a land lease for two years at um Chris Hadfield 38 00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:36,800 Airport and we provided direction to staff with respect to renegotiations 39 00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:40,560 associated with the lease agreement. That's my report that Sarnia City 40 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,200 Council adopt the report of the closed meeting. 41 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:47,919 » All those in favor? Are there any conflicts of interest? 42 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:51,839 I'm not seeing any. We're going to move forward. We've got a 43 00:34:49,359 --> 00:34:56,079 number of delegations to deal with and listen to. Uh the first meeting is a 44 00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:00,880 public meeting on the draft economic development community improvement plan. 45 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,560 » Do you want to say anything before I bring up the speakers? 46 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:07,359 » Sure. Thank you. Good afternoon, Mayor Bradley and members of council. We're 47 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,960 pleased to be bringing forward the draft economic development CIP program to you 48 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,520 today. This project is being brought forward to you because the city 49 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:17,280 recognizes the importance of supporting economic growth, encouraging investment, 50 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:22,000 and ensuring our community remains competitive. The proposed ecdevcip is 51 00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:25,599 intended to help attract new employment opportunities, support existing 52 00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:30,000 business, and encourage tourism related investments. The EDCIP has the potential 53 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:34,560 to strength the local strengthen the local economy, expand the municipal tax 54 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:38,240 base, and enhance amenities and opportunities for residents and 55 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,520 visitors. This meeting is meant to allow council and the public the chance to 56 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,560 speak about the propo to excuse me to learn about the proposed plan, ask 57 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:48,000 questions, and provide feedback on the draft plan. To guide us through the 58 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,839 details of the proposed plan, I'd like to introduce Jay McGuffin and Eric Steel 59 00:35:49,839 --> 00:35:56,520 of Monteth Brown Planning Consultants to the podium. 60 00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:56,520 » Please come forward. 61 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:10,160 » Good afternoon, Mayor Bradley. Uh members of council, uh thank you, Miss 62 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:14,560 Provos, for the introduction. Um we're happy to be here this evening to uh 63 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:19,119 introduce the draft economic development community improvement plan. Um as Kelly 64 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:24,560 indicated, I'm also joined this afternoon with uh Mr. Steele, uh who has 65 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:28,720 been intricately involved in the development of the plan. Uh and he'll be 66 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:33,599 sharing some of the presentation responsibilities with me as we move 67 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:37,960 through the uh slides this afternoon. If I could move to the first slide please. 68 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:45,119 Um again just by um recap the purpose of the economic development community 69 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:50,240 improvement plan was a key recommendation arriving from the city's 70 00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:54,960 economic development master plan as a tool to attract investment, retain 71 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:59,839 businesses and support sustainable economic development uh for the benefit 72 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:04,480 of the community and the public in in attendance. Uh community improvement 73 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:08,800 plan is a tool used by municipalities to stimulate targeted growth, 74 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:13,200 redevelopment, and revitalization. And it identifies areas that are eligible 75 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:16,880 for additional support such as grants, incentives, and to help achieve 76 00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:23,040 community or development goals for redevelopment. Uh next slide, please. 77 00:37:21,359 --> 00:37:29,200 In terms of the project phasing and where we are today, uh phase one uh 78 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:34,240 began end of 2025 as we started looking at background research and conducting a 79 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:38,240 needs assessment, identifying gaps um that could be filled through an economic 80 00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:41,680 development community improvement plan. This included a review of a lot of the 81 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:46,160 work that the city has already undertaken, including its economic 82 00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:50,640 development master plan, the master plan for the waterfront strategic plan, your 83 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:54,880 official plan, your zoning bylaw, a variety of other strategic documents 84 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:59,920 within the city, looking at research, as well as undertaking best management 85 00:37:57,119 --> 00:38:03,359 practice review for other municipalities that are also implementing economic 86 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:07,920 development, community improvement plans. Um, as council and and the public 87 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:13,119 are likely familiar with community improvement plans often targeted toward 88 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:17,040 uh regeneration in downtown areas or in village areas such as Mitten Village 89 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:21,680 here in the city of Sarnia. Um, oftentimes directed at me measures such 90 00:38:19,359 --> 00:38:26,880 as urban design improvements, facade improvements, uh, things of that nature. 91 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:31,599 Um a more novel approach uh as the city of Sardia has undertaken is an economic 92 00:38:29,839 --> 00:38:36,800 development community improvement plan that is focused solely on attracting 93 00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:41,599 economic development into the community. That led into phase two, which was the 94 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:45,680 um a fairly robust stakeholder and public consultation program that was 95 00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:49,200 undertaken uh where we went out to the community armed with the information 96 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:53,839 that we had assembled through our analysis and background review of 97 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:58,720 information and best practice review um to find out what was important to the 98 00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:02,400 community and the key stakeholders in Cernia with respect to economic 99 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:08,079 development. Once we had undertaken that to that 100 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:12,480 consultation, we then had some direction uh given to us from the key themes that 101 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:16,960 were identified which led to phase three which is the development of the draft 102 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:21,440 community improvement plan. Uh that is where we are today presenting that draft 103 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:26,960 to the council and the public uh to seek input and direction uh to move to our uh 104 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:30,560 fourth and final phase which will be bringing back a final community 105 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:36,400 improvement plan for council's consideration and adoption. Uh next page 106 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:40,720 please. So through that stakeholder and public 107 00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:46,560 consultation process, we received almost 400 online resident resident survey 108 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:50,960 responses and 77 online targeted partner survey responses. We also undertook 109 00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:54,720 one-on-one interviews with members of council. One-on-one interviews with 110 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:59,359 targeted partners throughout the community and targeted stakeholder 111 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:03,040 workshop was held where we were given opportunity to sit down, roll up our 112 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:08,880 sleeves and have discussions with targeted members of the industry. 113 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:13,200 um uh to discuss what are some of the hurdles that need to be overcome and 114 00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:17,760 what things can we do better in terms of developing an economic development 115 00:40:15,359 --> 00:40:20,760 strategy for the city. Next slide please. 116 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:27,599 So through that consultation process, the key themes that were identified and 117 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:31,680 these are the themes that were identified and not necessarily all of 118 00:40:29,359 --> 00:40:36,800 these themes are wrapped into programs at the same level or intensity, but they 119 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:43,200 formed the themes that were considered as we developed the plan. These included 120 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:47,599 a desire for performanced incentives. It was very clear that those people that we 121 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:52,640 interviewed wanted to tie measurable outcomes to ensure that projects 122 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:57,440 actually benefit the community. That process streamlining needed to occur, 123 00:40:55,359 --> 00:41:02,400 that clearer communication, reduced duplication, and a single point of 124 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:06,960 contact uh was preferable to lead them through the approvals process. 125 00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:12,079 Uh there was a strong sense that infrastructure and shovel ready land be 126 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:15,920 uh identified. Improved servicing, road conditions and availability of Chevy 127 00:41:14,079 --> 00:41:21,599 shovelready industrial and employment lands were identified as key aspects of 128 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:26,640 being able to attract uh economic development to the city. the 129 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:33,280 diversification of economics within the city and identifying a an expansion from 130 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:38,240 the historic prochemical industry into clean energy, green technologies, 131 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:43,280 logistics, advanced manufacturing technology and tourism 132 00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:48,160 were all identified. It was also identified that opportunities within the 133 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:53,040 waterfront and downtown had potential. Um the underutilized waterfront harbor 134 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:57,440 and downtown represented major opportunities for development and it 135 00:41:55,359 --> 00:42:01,839 also brought forward an identification of a different measure of attracting 136 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:05,760 economic development over and above a traditional employment land or 137 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:09,520 industrial approach. And lastly, quality of life is a 138 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:15,040 competitiveness uh factor. Amenities, recreation, 139 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:19,280 familyfriendly offerings are all essentials for talent attraction and 140 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:26,200 retention. And this was something that we heard over and over through our 141 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:26,200 process. Next slide, please. 142 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:34,880 After hearing the information come in, the next step in our process was to 143 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:40,079 identify a community improvement plan area. This is the area within the city 144 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:44,000 in which the plan would apply. And we've taken a novel approach that 145 00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:47,359 has been identified through our best management practices in other 146 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:52,720 communities particularly in economic development and identifying the whole of 147 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:58,640 the city as the project area and then identifying target areas within the city 148 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:05,200 um on lands that are zoned and designated for development or identified 149 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:12,319 as key strategic areas on the plan. This allows the plan to evolve as lands get 150 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:17,359 designated or ddesated. The plan does not have to be updated. It still 151 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:22,800 provides control over the location and direction and volume of projects that 152 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:28,000 occur, but that looks to your official plan and your zoning bylaw to identify 153 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:31,520 the key target areas. This city-wide approach provides 154 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:35,680 flexibility in responding to the changing economic conditions and 155 00:43:33,359 --> 00:43:40,079 investment opportunities and again eliminates the need to continually amend 156 00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:45,160 boundaries as your development patterns evolve. Next slide please. 157 00:43:45,839 --> 00:43:54,720 And as I mentioned uh going through the community consultation two streams 158 00:43:51,440 --> 00:44:02,000 started to emerge. one was the key focal uh industrial um that an EDCIP would be 159 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:08,400 anticipated focusing on. The other one given Sarnia's location um was a tourism 160 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:14,480 stream and the way that we identified dealing with the the disparities in 161 00:44:11,359 --> 00:44:19,200 these two programs um was to create two different streams within the community 162 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:23,280 improvement plan. Uh so we've divided it into an industrial development stream 163 00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:30,400 and then into a tourism development stream um in order to apply uh metrics 164 00:44:27,839 --> 00:44:34,319 for evaluation and an apply geographic areas for evaluation. At this time I'm 165 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:39,119 going to turn the microphone over to Eric Steele who will finish the uh 166 00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:43,760 presentation. He's going to talk about the specific programs um and incentives 167 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:47,800 and then we'll have a question and answer period. Thank you. 168 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:56,960 Next slide please. As Jay mentioned, we've grouped the 169 00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:00,720 potential financial incentive programs into two separate streams uh based on 170 00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:04,880 the types of projects or applications that will come forward uh once 171 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:09,119 implemented. So first focus on any kind of development within uh the city's 172 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:13,920 employment areas, industrial lands and assets like its city-owned business 173 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:18,079 parks. And this focus on a kind of um new construction investment uh that 174 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:22,480 would increase employment or increase assessment. And it's evaluated based on 175 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:26,400 a recommended scoring criteria to provide um transparency in terms of how 176 00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:30,720 these decisions are going to be made once applications are submitted as well 177 00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:34,079 as provide some guidance on um how to sort of evaluate um the benefits that 178 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:38,079 may come forward through those applications. And these are based on 179 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:41,920 metrics such as um the investment value being made, uh number of bros jobs that 180 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:46,240 would be created, um whether or not these businesses are within targeted key 181 00:45:43,839 --> 00:45:50,480 sectors identified within uh city documents, as well as uh servicing 182 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,920 status, physical location within the city, and whether or not recommendations 183 00:45:52,319 --> 00:45:58,480 for site improvements are being made through that uh application process. 184 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:03,599 Next slide, please. proposed a range of suite of programs 185 00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:07,760 that uh could be uh offered uh to bring investment to the city. The first being 186 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:13,440 a tax increment grant program. Uh what this does is offer a portion or all of 187 00:46:10,319 --> 00:46:16,800 an increase in tax assessment to be uh essentially deferred over time to 188 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:22,000 provide that sort of leg between when a business starts and when uh those new 189 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:26,160 increase in misal um or the city own city portion of the municipal tax 190 00:46:23,359 --> 00:46:30,160 assessment increase uh takes place. And the second is a development charge uh 191 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:34,400 rebate program that would offer up to 100% of DC's based on again that 192 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:38,400 criteria that' be used to evaluate applications. Um a planning fee grant 193 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,280 program that would wave planning fees would be associated with the 194 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:45,359 establishment of any kind of new business uh coming to Sarnia. And then 195 00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:50,000 finally a building fee grant program that would cover up to 50% of costs 196 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:56,640 related to building fees uh for a project. Next slide please. 197 00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:59,839 Second stream uh focuses on uh areas that would meaningfully enhance starting 198 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:03,440 as tourism economy and visitor experience. Again, as Jay noted, uh 199 00:47:01,839 --> 00:47:07,359 based on a lot of feedback that came forward through our background uh 200 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:12,319 document review as well as consultation about uh really enhancing some of the 201 00:47:10,079 --> 00:47:16,480 city's assets and bring people to to Sarnia. And this would include uh 202 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:21,280 developments such as large scale or certificate attractions, uh event 203 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:25,119 spaces, large scaleo uh tourism or hotel accommodation and other tourism 204 00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:29,280 supportive uses and again based on criteria such as uh tourism impact, the 205 00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:34,720 amount of investment value being brought, job creation, uh placemaking 206 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:39,119 and then geographic location criteria. Next slide please. 207 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:44,319 So similar range of programs uh that would be offered and available again um 208 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:48,000 uh programs that would offer uh funding for increases in municipal tax 209 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:54,400 assessment uh cover costs associated with planning fees as well as building 210 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:57,760 permit fees. Next slide please. So in terms of funding of these 211 00:47:55,520 --> 00:48:02,000 programs, the actual implementation, uh the inclusion of these um uh programs 212 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:07,200 within the CP does not mean that the city has to automatically or immediately 213 00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:12,720 um offer them uh for incentives. Uh they can be brought in in any kind of um 214 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:15,520 combination or all at the same time. Um and council may choose year-to-year 215 00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:19,680 discussion in terms of how much it's going to fund these applications on a on 216 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:24,000 annual basis. uh planning fee grants uh would be done 217 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:28,000 through uh just waving of fees and then taxing grant would offer a deferred 218 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:32,079 collection of the municipal portion of um increases in applicable taxes. Um 219 00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:36,079 however we have included a recommended annual budget of approximately 185 to 220 00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:40,160 $365,000 uh for the implementation of development 221 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:45,240 charge and building permit grant fees on an annual basis. Next slide please. 222 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:51,760 Uh so in summary um based on all this the previous work uh through the 223 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:55,280 previous phases of the project uh really the intent of this uh economic 224 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:59,040 development CIP is really to drive private investment by reducing barriers 225 00:48:57,119 --> 00:49:04,160 that businesses may face when when locating here explain explain employment 226 00:49:02,079 --> 00:49:08,400 opportunities um strengthen the local economy by uh really sort of elevating 227 00:49:06,319 --> 00:49:12,480 the city's assets uh supporting business retention and expansion and stimuling 228 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:18,559 tourism for attracting people to come to Sarnia. Next slide, please. 229 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:22,880 As Jay mentioned, we'll be using any input today from council and and the 230 00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:27,119 public uh to inform further refinement of the econom economic development CIP 231 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:35,480 and then bring forward a final version for adoption uh to be presented by city 232 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:35,480 council uh later in July. Slide, please. 233 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,480 And again, we're happy to answer any questions that council public may have 234 00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:44,160 today. Thank you. >> Okay, I one question to staff. You're 235 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:47,440 talking about minor edits. What are minor edits to bring it back to the next 236 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,880 meeting >> through the mayor? So, as indicated, 237 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:54,960 this is an opportunity for feedback and questions from the public and from 238 00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:59,119 council. They may direct any sort of refinements or edits to the draft CIP 239 00:49:57,359 --> 00:50:02,319 that has been presented today and we would take those into consideration and 240 00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:06,079 bringing the final version forward. >> Thank you. Uh 241 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:12,559 any questions? Go ahead, please, councelor Burl. 242 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:21,200 » Uh yes. Uh thank you. um in the overall plan I I didn't see any or would be 243 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:26,000 considered I think one of our major um develop uh 244 00:50:23,839 --> 00:50:31,680 things is like there's nothing here for agriculture 245 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:36,480 that I could see anyways and also uh even though waterfronts and that were 246 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:44,400 were mentioned there doesn't seem to be anything that um shows as your incentive 247 00:50:40,079 --> 00:50:49,119 areas for anything along the lake. Uh specifically like sort of in the Brights 248 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:52,960 Grove area there is, you know, it's a bit of an economic area up there as 249 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:57,280 well, but there doesn't seem to be anything in this plan that has to do 250 00:50:55,680 --> 00:51:04,520 with either Bites or anything within 251 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,520 agriculture. 252 00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:12,720 Okay. Three, Mr. Mayor to the councelor. Uh so in terms of the agricultural our 253 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:16,720 programs for agriculture um really yeah the focus of the eon development cap was 254 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:21,119 bring sort of larger scale uh development within cities. So it focus 255 00:51:18,559 --> 00:51:25,200 on sort of key areas or key assets um that bring development that may 256 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:31,119 otherwise not locate to Sarnia. Um so while uh the program may support things 257 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:36,000 like um added agricultural processing or um other industries that are tied into 258 00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:40,400 that agricultural um supply chain. um yet the scope of it wasn't to include 259 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:45,359 sort of rural areas of of the city. Uh in terms of um looking at sort of the 260 00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:50,720 waterfront areas, so within the tourism uh development stream, uh one of the the 261 00:51:47,839 --> 00:51:55,359 criteria is um uh geographic specifics. So whether or not uh the proposed 262 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:59,520 project is within sort of the downtown waterfront area. So, uh projects that 263 00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:02,640 were submitted or an application were submitted for that are located in those 264 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:08,480 areas would receive potentially higher incentive uh compared to other areas of 265 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:12,800 the city. >> Councelor Dennis, councelor Gillis. 266 00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:16,800 » Uh thank you, Mayor Bradley through you, sir. Um thank you gentlemen for your 267 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:21,040 presentation. Um I have a couple questions. My first question is about 268 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:26,160 returns. Um what specific return on investment are we expecting? Basically, 269 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:30,960 do we have estimates for how many jobs uh how much new assessment growth and 270 00:52:28,559 --> 00:52:35,200 how much investment um are we expecting? And my second question is about taxpayer 271 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:39,599 risk. If a company receives grants through this program and the promised 272 00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:43,680 jobs, investment or economic benefits fail to materialize, what mech 273 00:52:41,599 --> 00:52:47,839 mechanisms exist for council to recover those funds? Are there any clawback 274 00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:52,839 provisions tied to actual performance or do taxpayers assume all the risk? Thank 275 00:52:49,839 --> 00:52:52,839 you. 276 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:59,520 I'll respond to your first question, councelor Dennis, uh through the mayor. 277 00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:03,680 Um uh yes, we did we did we undertook an analysis uh of a variety of different 278 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:10,240 programs, both the building fee, planning fee, and the development charge 279 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:16,079 by looking at historic use of um each of those various uh application fees, the 280 00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:21,119 the volume of revenue that was received by the city within that time period. And 281 00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:26,319 then we correlated it back to the value of construction uh of new development 282 00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:33,520 that was related and then correlated that to the tax rate uh to identify um 283 00:53:31,359 --> 00:53:37,920 basically the return on the investment. Uh in a nutshell it was 7 to n times 284 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:42,880 higher return on investment for the value that was uh provided. Um I don't 285 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:47,240 have the specific numbers at my fingertip. Um, 286 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:56,640 but I do recall 7 to nine times being the the amount. And and sorry I don't 287 00:53:54,800 --> 00:54:02,079 have my reading glasses on. So that's my other struggle. Um, 288 00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:05,760 just taking a look at one. This is a historic tax revenue from increased 289 00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:11,839 construction value. And you'll find this in the appendices of the draft CIP that 290 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:18,960 was circulated. uh historic construction value of 40 million in 2022 291 00:54:15,359 --> 00:54:23,440 at a tax rate of 3.75% was an estimated tax revenue of 292 00:54:21,119 --> 00:54:31,280 $1.524,000 annually. Um and so when we took a look 293 00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:38,960 at that between 22 23 24 and 25 on average there was about a $681,000 294 00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:45,200 236 estimated tax revenue annually that was brought forward. The valuation and 295 00:54:41,839 --> 00:54:52,400 the amount to the uh program was significantly less than that. So we had 296 00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:56,319 budgeted 185,000 to 365,000 or 85,000. 297 00:54:54,319 --> 00:55:00,000 See, see what concerns me is, as I should I'm sure you're aware, um the 298 00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:07,359 federal government has gotten burnt uh the last while. Um they invested quite a 299 00:55:03,119 --> 00:55:11,760 lot of money in in Honda. Uh well, you had identified through the survey that a 300 00:55:10,319 --> 00:55:16,400 number of residents wanted to see investments in in green technology and 301 00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:24,880 such. And as you're probably aware, uh Cammy uh committed to building uh green 302 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:30,640 uh uh electric vehicles. uh Honda in um up north wanted committed to as well and 303 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:35,920 they they spent billions of dollars uh building plants and then and they closed 304 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:41,680 before they were even built and uh uh it seems that that direction uh is so 305 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:47,040 yesterday now and and uh there these companies are seeing that these uh these 306 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:52,640 investments aren't uh the uh they're not panning out like they they they hoped 307 00:55:49,359 --> 00:55:57,440 and um if if um our citizens are are pushing pushing for a green investment. 308 00:55:54,240 --> 00:56:02,240 SP I I think that that that isn't the direction. That might have been the the 309 00:55:59,119 --> 00:56:05,680 direction maybe uh 5 10 years ago, but it seems to me that that direction isn't 310 00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:12,319 the right direction anymore. That that's just my my observations. Um I I'm pretty 311 00:56:09,839 --> 00:56:16,880 well read on on on those types of things that have happened and that that just 312 00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:20,799 concerns me. >> That is an editorial comment. Uh 313 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:26,079 councelor Gillis, you have a question. Uh thank you your worship and actually I 314 00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:32,000 think some of those projects were paused but not cancelled. So just 315 00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:37,200 well you have your opinion I have today which is the community plan not issues. 316 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:42,640 » Thank you uh your worship. So coming back to the community improvement plan 317 00:56:39,839 --> 00:56:46,400 and it's in direct reference actually to uh what councelor Dennis was saying 318 00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:50,400 particularly from the industrial perspective and by the way I was very 319 00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:57,280 glad to see that you included the industrial um area in the overall plan. 320 00:56:54,079 --> 00:57:02,160 I think it's very wise. U and we do know that the federal government right now is 321 00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:08,640 bringing forward incentives particularly for as you said shovel ready projects um 322 00:57:06,079 --> 00:57:14,000 all over the country but some of those project ready projects 323 00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:18,880 haven't directly related to heavy industrial other than the one that in 324 00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:23,680 the sue that I can think of. So when they went from the blast furnace to the 325 00:57:20,319 --> 00:57:30,880 electrical the electric arc furnace I uh do you envision anything along that 326 00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:37,280 lines that if companies are looking to reinvest in and upgrade uh their their 327 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:42,400 properties within the the valley say let's use that as an example 328 00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:48,799 particularly when um energy is is all the buzz and we've got it in spades. 329 00:57:45,839 --> 00:57:53,680 Would you be would you pursue that that avenue um of marrying some of those 330 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:58,079 together so that you could get a broader bang for your buck? 331 00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:04,640 » Uh through you, Mr. Mayor. Absolutely. The the community improvement plan has 332 00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:12,240 been devised to not only recognize the industrial powerhouse that fueled the 333 00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:17,839 city of Sarnia uh for decades past, but also to be available to respond to 334 00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:24,240 emerging technologies um that will inevitably be coming 335 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:28,000 forward as Sarnia progresses. And in order to do that, it's the the 336 00:58:26,079 --> 00:58:33,839 evaluation and metric scheme is identified and includes bonusing for 337 00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:38,319 measures like redevelopment of existing properties, uh cleaning up of existing 338 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:43,200 properties, point scores are awarded if the development includes those aspects 339 00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:48,880 and that has that is how the CIP has appro uh approached uh response to those 340 00:58:46,799 --> 00:58:53,599 measures. A followup if I may. 341 00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:58,640 Who is going to make this happen? Is it going to be uh are we going to have to 342 00:58:55,359 --> 00:59:04,880 hire more staff to imple or look oversee this because this is massive or have you 343 00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:09,760 gone that far in the steps? >> Uh we we have in terms of I mean you've 344 00:59:07,359 --> 00:59:14,799 got a uh an existing economic development group within your within 345 00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:20,640 your municipality who is very keen to see this program uh come to fruition. 346 00:59:17,599 --> 00:59:27,760 based on our interviews and discussions and they are looking at um opportunities 347 00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:32,160 to assist uh wherever possible in ensuring that this is a seamless 348 00:59:29,839 --> 00:59:38,079 approach and that they can work with city staff uh from beginning to end um 349 00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:43,760 within that approvals process. So, we're not envisioning uh through our uh 350 00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:49,119 initial uh element um that there's a requirement for additional staffing. Um 351 00:59:47,599 --> 00:59:53,520 I may have to turn it over to Miss Provos in terms of her position on that, 352 00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:57,319 but uh that was sort of the discussions that we had had internally 353 00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:02,160 » through the mayor to members of council. I'll just comment in addition to what 354 01:00:00,559 --> 01:00:04,799 Jay had indicated there is that we are expecting that the current complement 355 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:09,520 within the economic development department can facilitate the the intake 356 01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:13,440 and the review of the applications and then they would be advanced to council 357 01:00:11,599 --> 01:00:17,520 for consideration. Each of the applications would come for decision to 358 01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:21,440 council. >> Well, thank you very much for the 359 01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:26,200 presentation. Uh Mr. Slinsky would like to come forward and from the economic 360 01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,200 partnership, 361 01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:43,680 Mayor uh members of council, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak 362 01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:48,079 here today. I I come with a great deal of enthusiasm uh for the uh city's 363 01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:52,000 efforts to explore new strategies to enhance Cernia's economic 364 01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:56,559 competitiveness and attract long-term investment. That enthusiasm comes with 365 01:00:54,559 --> 01:01:01,359 strong support for the draft economic development uh improvement plan uh which 366 01:00:59,359 --> 01:01:05,920 the Sarna lamp economic partnership believes will be a powerful tool to 367 01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:10,160 facilitate revitalization and stimulate both development and redevelopment. 368 01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:15,200 Today, I'm not here to suggest modifications to the draft. uh EDCIP, 369 01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:20,079 but rather to emphasize that its adoption will help position Sernia more 370 01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:24,640 effectively among the jurisdictions we compete with for investment. When we 371 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:29,119 look at the criteria that site selectors use when evaluating locations for 372 01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:34,640 industrial development, access to a strong and effective CIP is an important 373 01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:39,680 component of the overall toolkit. After workforce, land availability, and 374 01:01:37,599 --> 01:01:43,680 infrastructure, incentives are consistently identified as one of the 375 01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:49,599 top considerations in location decisions. The site selectors guild 376 01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:54,000 actually ranks at fourth most important. That noted, local incentives play a 377 01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:58,960 critical role alongside those that may be available proincially and federally. 378 01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:03,520 When we engage with site selectors and prospective uh companies undergoing site 379 01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:07,200 selection processes, the question of local incentives is often raised at the 380 01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:12,000 time that sites are first being put forward are always raised once a 381 01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:16,640 prospect has identified interest in a site and are under considerable 382 01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:21,440 comparison with competing juris uh jurisdictions incentives by the time 383 01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:25,839 that a site visit has occurred. In many cases, the absence of competitive 384 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:29,359 incentives can disqualify a location uh not only late in the process, but 385 01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:35,599 sometimes even before a community is uh is uh strong is uh seriously considered. 386 01:02:33,839 --> 01:02:40,799 And while the local incentives are just one of what may be anywhere from 10 to 387 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:46,559 150 or more uh factors impacting on investment location decisions, every 388 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:51,359 unchecked box reduces competitiveness. This plan helps address that. In many 389 01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:56,240 comparable Ontario markets such as Windsor, London, St. Thomas, Hamilton, 390 01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:59,599 Niagara to name a few, local incentive programs are well established and 391 01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:05,040 frequently leveraged to attract investment and job creation, often cited 392 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:09,200 by investments or by investors as having been a considerable 393 01:03:07,119 --> 01:03:14,000 uh having a considerable impact on the investment decision. Currently, this 394 01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:19,440 remains a gap not only for SNIA but across much of Lamp County. Adoption of 395 01:03:17,039 --> 01:03:25,039 the EDCIP would allow SNRA to close that gap and compete more effectively. This 396 01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:30,319 will have an impact on not just the city-owned industrial parks and economic 397 01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:34,480 assets uh but also vacant industrial land across the community. 398 01:03:32,559 --> 01:03:38,400 I'm particularly encouraged by the structure of the draft plan as it 399 01:03:35,839 --> 01:03:42,799 defines re uh relevant econ uh target economic sectors and draws upon several 400 01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:47,440 incentive programs that may function individually or in combination to 401 01:03:45,119 --> 01:03:51,440 attract that new investment. Uh most uh specifically, I'm encouraged 402 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:55,359 by the inclusion of the tax increment grant program and development charges 403 01:03:53,440 --> 01:04:00,400 grant program, which reflects best practices across Ontario. 404 01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:04,319 Combined with the building fee and planning fee grant programs, the 405 01:04:02,079 --> 01:04:09,440 industrial development stream is diverse in its potential uh to be leveraged. 406 01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:14,400 Equally important is that point-based system uh that ties incentives to the 407 01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:18,960 factors such as sector alignment, servicing, investment value, and 408 01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:22,720 ultimately job creation potential. This ensures that the strongest incentives 409 01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:26,799 are directed where they're going to deliver the greatest benefit to the 410 01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:29,680 community. Lastly, it's encouraged that because of the diverse programs that 411 01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:33,440 exist in this plan, there's the potential to phase implementation should 412 01:04:31,359 --> 01:04:37,839 it be necessary, given that certain components such that such as the tax 413 01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:42,319 increment grant don't require upfront reserve uh funding allocations. In 414 01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:47,440 closing, I'd like to reiterate our strong support for the EDCIP. We see it 415 01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:52,319 as a meaningful and forward-looking uh step forward that strengthens Cernia uh 416 01:04:49,839 --> 01:04:56,079 Cernia's development toolkit and enhances its ability to compete for 417 01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:58,640 future investment opportunities. Thanks again for the time. 418 01:04:57,119 --> 01:05:00,880 » Thank you, Councelor White. You had a question. 419 01:04:59,039 --> 01:05:05,359 » Yes. Uh thank you your worship through you. Uh Mr. Slutwitzky, thank you for 420 01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:12,000 for uh coming and speaking today. You you answered every question I had. So 421 01:05:07,599 --> 01:05:16,480 well done. Um I'll I'll drill down on to uh one point then um that I was going to 422 01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:24,079 ask you about and that is for the general uh information of everybody. We 423 01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:29,359 we can talk about um uh generalizations where certain locations are implementing 424 01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:34,400 a program like this and having success. But uh is there anything anywhere in 425 01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:37,839 particular that is uh tangible that could come to mind that somebody driving 426 01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:43,200 down the highway can actually look at and say okay if we had that that might 427 01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:46,720 have been insia or that's too hypothetical 428 01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:50,720 if they hadn't had that plan that probably wouldn't be within our eyesight 429 01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:55,079 right now if I was driving down say the 401 or the 402 430 01:05:55,200 --> 01:06:02,640 » um thank you for the question absolutely and I I'll draw from an example of a a 431 01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:07,839 company that we know we had dealt with. There's a company that's announced a 432 01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:12,160 $300 million investment in Windsor. Uh up to a thousand jobs. Uh while they 433 01:06:10,799 --> 01:06:16,720 were looking through the site selection process, including uh sites in Sarnia 434 01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:20,319 and elsewhere in Lamp County, there was the direct question of what are the 435 01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:25,119 community incentives that are available that can match what Windsor just spoke 436 01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:29,599 to us about two hours ago. uh effectively at that time when we 437 01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:36,160 weren't able to draw upon a community improvement plan, the meeting ended. uh 438 01:06:33,359 --> 01:06:40,559 that company uh had recently announced that investment uh in Windsor about uh 439 01:06:39,039 --> 01:06:46,240 about a year ago at this point in time, a company called Minth 440 01:06:42,799 --> 01:06:51,039 and uh it really does uh point to the potential that community incentives uh 441 01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:54,799 uh have in forwarding the the total overall toolkit that we can draw upon to 442 01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:59,520 bring uh investment to the area. >> And followup please if I may. Uh thank 443 01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:02,400 you. Um, and so it it seems to me, and there was a question earlier about uh 444 01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:06,960 return on investment, which I was concerned about as well, which is why I 445 01:07:03,839 --> 01:07:14,799 want examples of where this works. Uh, your your assessment sounds to me like 446 01:07:11,119 --> 01:07:18,960 the uh the the return is a fairly immediate 447 01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:23,760 uh and obvious return on this investment if I'm not mistaken correct. And 448 01:07:20,559 --> 01:07:31,680 therefore, should uh this process be undertaken uh we or council at the of 449 01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:36,640 the day uh has the potential to perhaps withdraw the program at any given point. 450 01:07:34,079 --> 01:07:42,799 And and so what I'm trying to get at is it's very uh tangible to see the results 451 01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:48,000 in in a very immediate fashion because if I'm not mistaken, folks 452 01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:51,119 aren't coming to the table with a hypothetical. they're coming to the 453 01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:55,920 table with a shovel ready project. They're just looking for the best case 454 01:07:53,440 --> 01:08:02,720 scenario so that they can start almost immediately. So, it seems to me like the 455 01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:07,119 return on our tax revenue, employment in the area, the subsidi subsidiary 456 01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:11,839 opportunities uh and all of the other revenue streams 457 01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:16,960 that will benefit from uh a a cons concentration of employment and 458 01:08:13,599 --> 01:08:22,159 industrial capacity would be fairly uh quick. uh to receive those benefits. Is 459 01:08:19,679 --> 01:08:26,400 that is that fair to say? >> I I I think it would be fair to say that 460 01:08:24,159 --> 01:08:30,080 there's the opportunity for it to be fairly quick. It ultimately depends on 461 01:08:28,480 --> 01:08:34,480 the prospects that we're dealing with at the point in time uh that it is put in 462 01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:39,759 place. But I would like to draw upon one more example of of an effective plan and 463 01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:44,080 some of its community benefits. Uh the revitalizing Hamilton uh tax increment 464 01:08:42,159 --> 01:08:48,960 grant is a great example. This is one where we're looking a bit more longterm, 465 01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:53,839 but overall on the benefits that these such programs can have on a community. 466 01:08:51,520 --> 01:09:01,120 Over the course of about 18 years of that program being in place, 467 01:08:57,440 --> 01:09:06,480 they they granted about 1.7 million in over 40 projects over that time. So, uh 468 01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:11,920 you're seeing several projects a year. This represented uh more than $330 469 01:09:09,759 --> 01:09:17,520 million in construction investment in the community. But more importantly, uh, 470 01:09:14,719 --> 01:09:23,040 once once the, uh, components of the grant had been leveraged, it meant an 471 01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:28,400 annual tax increase permanently in the community of $10 million a year. Uh, and 472 01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:32,239 and that's something that I think has ultimately shows the long-term benefit 473 01:09:30,239 --> 01:09:37,520 uh, that exists in these cases. >> Thank you very much, Council McRoberts. 474 01:09:35,279 --> 01:09:41,679 » Thank you for your presentation. My question for all the cities that you've 475 01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:44,400 uh learned about and what they've got and what they're putting out in their 476 01:09:42,719 --> 01:09:48,719 CIPs, whereabouts is infrastructure on the 477 01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:53,759 properties that we're trying to have people come in and move into on a level 478 01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:58,640 of 1 to 10. Is that like a number one? They're really looking for readymade 479 01:09:55,280 --> 01:10:01,120 shovel ready properties or that'll come because the rest of the package will 480 01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:05,920 sweeten the deal where they're just buying a piece of dirt and they have to 481 01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:09,760 bring in the infrastructure themselves. Thank you very much for the question. I 482 01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:14,560 I'd suggest that ultimately land readiness as the total package of 483 01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:22,080 factors that impact upon investment decisions uh is right now the most 484 01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:26,880 critical uh that we're looking at especially uh early in the stages of 485 01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:30,480 trying to uh move through the site selection pipeline. uh but especially 486 01:10:28,719 --> 01:10:33,840 once uh once they're getting down to the nitty-gritty of uh what are the 487 01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:40,719 financial implications of their decisions uh land readiness will be the 488 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:44,960 uh most important factor. So would we be better to invest our 489 01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:50,239 money right now in getting the infrastructure to these properties or 490 01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:54,719 development charges will be you know levied and would all of that matter 491 01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:58,880 compared to just having this beautiful piece of land that's ready to go which 492 01:10:56,719 --> 01:11:03,199 is where should we put our money into getting this whole program or run the 493 01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:08,480 program but still worry about the infrastructure because we're not and 494 01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:11,920 it's expensive. So that's my question. We get all of this together. Is it 495 01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:16,080 really going to make people move knowing that that check or the bill is going to 496 01:11:14,239 --> 01:11:21,440 be hefty to have water, gas, and electric come to their lands? 497 01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:27,199 » I think the joy of a program like this is that it can operate handinand with 498 01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:30,400 investing uh in site readiness uh as well as moving the program forward. So I 499 01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:35,120 I don't think it needs to be an eitheror. I think it can be a both. 500 01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:39,520 Investing in land readiness uh is critically important for all communities 501 01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:43,600 uh across Lamp County, Sernia included. Uh but there are the abilities to 502 01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:50,719 leverage aspects of this plan as presented uh that don't have uh a for a 503 01:11:48,159 --> 01:11:54,960 a forward cost on the municipality to be able to leverage them for the benefit uh 504 01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:57,520 of those investors considering the community. 505 01:11:55,760 --> 01:12:01,840 » Thank you, Councelor Dennis. >> Uh thank you, Mayor Bradley. Matthew, um 506 01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:06,719 you and I have talked privately before. Um as you know, I was in sales for 30 507 01:12:04,239 --> 01:12:12,640 years and you essentially are in sales. you're selling Sarnia lamp to potential 508 01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:16,719 uh businesses and industry. Um it's so important that you are on a level 509 01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:21,679 playing ground or playing field. Is it fair to say sir that when you are uh 510 01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:28,239 when you approach these uh prospective uh industries that uh we're sending you 511 01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:32,719 to uh we're sending you into uh a meeting, a sales meeting with your hands 512 01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:37,600 tied behind your back. uh that you do not have the same tools as maybe other 513 01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:43,040 other municipalities do to land the land the the the whale so to speak. Um uh you 514 01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:48,480 know the other other municipalities have a bigger toolbox than you do when it 515 01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:54,560 comes to uh uh landing the the big sale so to speak. And if you had uh more uh 516 01:12:52,239 --> 01:13:01,760 tools in your toolbox, you would be much more successful uh landing these big uh 517 01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:06,880 employers, these big uh um um uh companies uh in Sarnia Lamp. Well, 518 01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:10,159 particularly Sarna, but uh even in Sarnia Lampton, is is that a fair 519 01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:14,480 assessment, sir? I I I think the fair assessment in this 520 01:13:12,239 --> 01:13:19,280 case is that in the absence of a CIP like this, we 521 01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:23,120 are missing a critical tool in the toolbox. As I referenced, community 522 01:13:21,440 --> 01:13:28,080 incentives are one of the most important tools that is available in trying to 523 01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:33,199 attract uh new investment in job creation to a community. And by uh 524 01:13:30,719 --> 01:13:36,880 forwarding this plan as presented, we will have a significant tool to be able 525 01:13:35,199 --> 01:13:40,320 to leverage to bring new investment and job creation to Sarnia. 526 01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:44,239 » Okay. Mr. Sloinsky, you have to acknowledge also that we have something 527 01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:49,120 that no one else has which is the bluewater energy park and we are working 528 01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:54,640 on a very big plant to go there because of the behind the fence power rates and 529 01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:58,159 that does have a huge pack impact and as you know there's some activity there 530 01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:01,679 that's quite significant. So that I don't want it to be all negative is also 531 01:14:00,159 --> 01:14:05,040 there's some things here as a community that we have London doesn't have, 532 01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:08,320 Windsor doesn't have. we have the ability to put people into place with 533 01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:11,360 low power rates and with a lot of sharing of infrastructure and that's 534 01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:16,080 what's being looked at right now there. Is that that fair to say? 535 01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:22,640 » That's absolutely fair to say. Uh and along those lines uh with this item here 536 01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:27,520 uh it will be just yet another uh positive piece we can leverage in 537 01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:29,760 addition to uh assets like the blue water energy park that you just spoke 538 01:14:29,199 --> 01:14:32,800 to. >> Thank you very much for your 539 01:14:30,719 --> 01:14:35,840 presentation. Uh this is a public meeting on this particular plan. So if 540 01:14:34,719 --> 01:14:41,679 there's anyone else that wishes to speak, they indicate right now they wish 541 01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:45,440 to do so. I don't think we had anyone calling once, twice, and three times. So 542 01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:48,320 with that, I'm going to close this public meeting and look for a 543 01:14:46,719 --> 01:14:52,640 resolution. There's a recommendation to you to bring this back in a month for 544 01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:57,840 final council white, councelor Gillis. Any discussion? All in favor? That's 545 01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:02,239 unanimous. Thank you everyone. If we can move on to our next public meeting which 546 01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:08,600 is related to uh resoning on Cathgart. Uh Mr. Bradshaw, you're making the 547 01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:08,600 presentation. Thank you for the staff. 548 01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:23,679 » Thank you your worship and members of council. 549 01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:26,880 Sorry, hope you can hear me better. >> Thank you worship and members of 550 01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:29,920 council. Uh my name is Stephen Bradshaw. I'm a land use planner within the 551 01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:33,679 community services division here at city hall. Uh thank you for allowing me to 552 01:15:32,159 --> 01:15:37,360 present and speak to you today regarding the application received by BM Ross and 553 01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:42,960 Associates on behalf of the county of lamp for the lands addressed as 778 554 01:15:40,159 --> 01:15:46,080 Cathkart Boulevard in Sarnia. Uh this application requests permission to amend 555 01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:51,760 the city of Sarnney official plan and zoning bylaw to redesate those lands uh 556 01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:56,080 from M a mixeduse quarter 1 designation to a mixeduse quarter 2 designation and 557 01:15:54,400 --> 01:16:00,159 to zone the entirety of the subject lands to a sightsp specific urban 558 01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:04,000 residential 5-19 [clears throat] zone. Uh these requested amendments are 559 01:16:02,719 --> 01:16:08,080 intended to facilitate the development of a four-story apartment dwelling 560 01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:12,640 containing 94 apartment dwelling units with 68 provided parking stalls and to 561 01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:17,120 recognize the existing 42 apartment dwelling units with 11 provided parking 562 01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:21,760 stalls at the Jubilee Gardens on site. Uh the 94 proposed apartment dwelling 563 01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:24,960 units have been identified by the applicant and within the submission as 564 01:16:23,199 --> 01:16:30,080 being affordable. The lands at 7718 Cathkart Boulevard are 565 01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:33,520 currently designated within schedule one of the city's sarnio official plan as 566 01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:38,080 being located within a strategic growth area and are designated within schedule 567 01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:41,840 two as being mixed use uh being a mixeduse corridor 1 designation. The 568 01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:45,679 plan identifies these lands as being intended to be developed as mixeduse 569 01:16:44,159 --> 01:16:49,840 transit supportive corridors that support the development of mid-rise to 570 01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:54,239 high-rise buildings. The plan recognizes these lands as those intended to contain 571 01:16:52,480 --> 01:16:58,880 a broad range of commercial, residential, and institutional uses in 572 01:16:56,400 --> 01:17:02,640 those mixeduse buildings. Uh the applicant is requesting a down 573 01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:06,080 designation to a mixeduse corridor 2 designation which also permits and 574 01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:10,400 encourages mixeduse development along those uh primary corridors and along 575 01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:13,600 transit supportive corridors. Uh however, it does limit the scale of 576 01:17:11,679 --> 01:17:17,360 developments to be within low and mid-rise built form. 577 01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:20,800 Mixeduse corridor 2 designation encourages providing opportunities for 578 01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:24,400 residential intensification, infill redevelopment. Uh in review of the 579 01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:29,199 submitted application, there were no non-residential components identified. 580 01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:32,320 The application is uh further requesting an amendment to the city of Sarnnea 581 01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:37,440 zoning bylaw to permit a sight specific lot area for the combined 136 apartment 582 01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:42,000 dwelling units on the subject lands and to permit a combined parking rate of 583 01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:45,000 0.58 spaces uh per dwelling unit for parking. 584 01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:51,360 Uh staff have reviewed the policies of the established planning framework at 585 01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:55,120 the provincial, county, and municipal levels. Uh that framework and policy 586 01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:58,560 support the intensification of vacant lands that are located on existing 587 01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:02,960 municipally serviced lands within an urban center as defined by the county of 588 01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:06,000 lan official plan. The city's official plan supports residential 589 01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:09,440 intensification and infill redevelopment that is located within a strategic 590 01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:12,480 growth area and defined as a mixeduse corridor designation. 591 01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:16,000 Maintaining the interest and goals of the official plan which outlined the the 592 01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:19,199 objectives of the city of Sarnia as a successful city. It is staff's opinion 593 01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:22,640 that the requested amendments are consistent with the direction of the 594 01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:27,600 provincial planning statement, the county of LAN official plan and the city 595 01:18:24,480 --> 01:18:30,159 of Sarnia official plan. The requested amendments support the city's 596 01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:34,239 established goal to provide for an increased stock of affordable housing 597 01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:37,280 units within the builtup area. Uh staff recommend that these amendments to the 598 01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:40,880 city's official plan and the zoning bylaw be approved. And I'm happy to 599 01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:44,960 answer any questions from >> any questions from council. 600 01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:49,920 » Councelor Burl. >> Uh yes, thank you your worship. Uh with 601 01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:57,360 regards to the parking spots, are they um generally available for any of the 602 01:18:52,960 --> 01:19:02,400 tenants or are they specific to units? >> Uh I would defer that more to the 603 01:19:00,239 --> 01:19:05,360 applicant to answer regarding how the parking is going to be allocated. But 604 01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:08,960 with regards to what is there and what is being proposed, there are 11 parking 605 01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:12,000 spaces on the site that are dedicated specifically to the Jubilee Gardens 606 01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:18,320 currently. And the applicant is proposing 68 new spaces uh on the site 607 01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:22,080 for a total of of 79 parking spaces. I'm not sure how that's going to be 608 01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:25,440 delegated between the two. >> We can put that question to the 609 01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:28,800 applicant. >> With that, thank you very much. Uh Mr. 610 01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:31,280 Forkens on behalf of the Sorry, Councelor Gillis. Go ahead. Sorry, Mr. 611 01:19:30,719 --> 01:19:34,000 Bradshaw. >> Here we are. Mr. 612 01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:39,760 just for one minute to come. So to clarify for that uh with regard to the 613 01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:45,199 parking at Jubilee Gardens um if it's been established that way since 1975 614 01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:49,520 and the people that are in that building or actually the building was built for 615 01:19:47,440 --> 01:19:55,600 senior citizens, uh how can we compromise that now? 616 01:19:54,080 --> 01:20:02,159 » I'm not sure I understand what you mean compromise. Well, the fact is that if 617 01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:07,840 you've got um one building requiring x number of of uh parking spots and an 618 01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:11,280 established building that has establish those parking spots since 619 01:20:09,679 --> 01:20:16,320 1975, how are you going to square that circle 620 01:20:14,239 --> 01:20:21,280 that uh well, when the new kids come in town, they're taking over all of your 621 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:27,600 stuff? So, what I'm saying is those 11 parking spots for Jubilee Gardens were 622 01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:32,480 specific to seniors with their needs and accessibilities. 623 01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:36,640 So, to just take that away, you're compromising that building in some way. 624 01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:40,560 » I would say, Mr. Bachel, that's a question really for the applicant, is it 625 01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:44,080 not to to address about how they're going to uh deal with the separation of 626 01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:47,520 the parking? >> I'm happy through you, Mr. Mayor. I'm 627 01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:51,120 happy to allow the applicant to answer that as well. Um I just know that those 628 01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:55,440 11 parking spaces are registered on title under a site plan control 629 01:20:52,239 --> 01:20:59,760 agreement. Um this proposal would also be required to go through such a similar 630 01:20:57,280 --> 01:21:04,960 process to establish site plan control uh on the site and um that would be 631 01:21:02,719 --> 01:21:07,280 determined at that stage I believe. >> Mr. Fork, since you've heard the 632 01:21:06,159 --> 01:21:10,640 questions, perhaps you can address them when you're up here. I'd like to call 633 01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:13,640 upon the applicant's agent to come forward. 634 01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:24,239 you want to make your presentation then we'll deal with those questions after 635 01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:27,600 that. >> Certainly. Thank you uh your worship. 636 01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:32,000 I'll address the questions throughout my presentation. If there's any questions 637 01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:34,719 and afterwards for by all means. Uh thank you again for the opportunity to 638 01:21:33,199 --> 01:21:38,239 speak to you. Uh good evening your worship council members, staff, and 639 01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:42,560 members of the public. My name is Jordan Folkens. I'm a planning consultant at BM 640 01:21:40,159 --> 01:21:45,360 Ross and Associates Limited and I'm the planning consultant for the county of 641 01:21:43,679 --> 01:21:49,280 Lamson for this proposal. I'm also joined by several uh members of county 642 01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:54,639 staff here if there are any more detailed questions about the 643 01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:58,880 development. Next slide, please. I'd also like to thank Mr. Bachel for 644 01:21:56,480 --> 01:22:02,639 his presentation and for this that was written. I've read the report and the 645 01:22:00,639 --> 01:22:07,199 proposed recommendations to approve the official plan and zoning bylaw 646 01:22:04,719 --> 01:22:11,840 amendments. I concur with the the bylaw that was drafted. Um Mr. Bachel did give 647 01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:15,440 a great overview of this development. I'll concentrate more on the questions 648 01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:19,679 that were raised by council and highlight any other key points of this 649 01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:24,880 development. As Mr. Bradshaw noted, this uh site currently has Jubilee Gardens, 650 01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:28,960 which is a 42 unit uh multiple dwelling that contains affordable housing for 651 01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:32,400 senior citizens. It was also home of the St. Bartholomew's church which has 652 01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:37,040 recently been demolished from the property which uh provides an 653 01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:43,440 opportunity now to to do that sort of infill development with an intation. 654 01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:47,679 Next slide please. Looking at the surrounding area you're 655 01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:52,480 aware that this is in an area that has commercial uses. Others across the 656 01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:59,280 street from a grocery store and a pharmacy is on a transit route and has 657 01:22:55,920 --> 01:23:03,920 uh sidewalks in in close proxy. Slide please. 658 01:23:02,159 --> 01:23:09,040 Looking at the proposed development, it is for a 94 unit apartment building with 659 01:23:06,639 --> 01:23:12,800 four stories. The design of the building would somewhat mirror the existing 660 01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:17,120 Jubilee Gardens and frame what is Cathkart Boulevard. Uh increased 661 01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:20,800 setbacks both to the north and the east are proposed to to ensure that this is 662 01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:25,199 compatible with the surrounding development. Uh more specifically, I 663 01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:29,520 believe the setback is around 26 mters to the northern lot line and 8 mters to 664 01:23:27,679 --> 01:23:32,480 the side lot line, which again has a building that's owned by the county of 665 01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:37,600 Lamp. Now, this uh building uh placement was 666 01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:42,639 also meant to screen the parking area so that the building is uh contributing to 667 01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:46,320 the streetscape along Cathkar Boulevard and uh when pedestrians walk by, they 668 01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:53,120 see the building, the windows, the facade treatments, landscaping instead 669 01:23:48,480 --> 01:23:53,120 of a parking lot. Next slide, please. 670 01:23:54,480 --> 01:24:00,239 Speaking about the renderings, uh the building is proposed to be four stories 671 01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:04,560 in height and as I mentioned would screen that parking area. If approved 672 01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:09,280 today, it would be subject to a process under site plan control. So the the 673 01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:13,520 details of the landscaping and the site orientation would be would be changed at 674 01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:16,840 that time based on staff comments. Next slide, please. 675 01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:23,360 And there's floor plans. All the bedroom units would be onebedroom units. There's 676 01:24:21,440 --> 01:24:27,840 94 of them split between the four floors. The blue areas on the floor 677 01:24:25,679 --> 01:24:33,679 plans there are for common amenity areas as well for residents. Slide please. 678 01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:36,800 So the reason that we're here today uh there's two applications in front of 679 01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:40,960 council. The first one is an official plan amendment with which Mr. Bradshaw 680 01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:44,880 went over. Generally what we're asking for if you look at the map we're 681 01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:49,520 changing the orange to a brown. So what does that mean really? So the orange 682 01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:52,800 allows for 12story apartment building development. It's one of the more 683 01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:58,239 intense land use designations in the city. As Mr. Bradshaw mentioned, we're 684 01:24:55,920 --> 01:25:01,760 down designating in this proposal. So instead of 12 stories, this would be 685 01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:05,679 brought down to six stories to allow for this four-story development. So we're 686 01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:10,000 not asking for an increase in height. We're asking actually for a decrease. So 687 01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:12,960 you may wonder why we're asking for that because we're removing some permissions 688 01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:17,840 on the property. And really the reason is um with that mixeduse one designation 689 01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:22,800 there are other policies that come into play. For instance, the height of the 690 01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:27,199 first story has to be 4.25 meters. Um for this development, we don't want to 691 01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:32,400 go that high. Um another reason is for non-residential uses to be at grade. So 692 01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:36,000 at least 50% of the uses under the current policies need to have 693 01:25:33,679 --> 01:25:40,400 non-residential uses and this development would have more than 50% as 694 01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:44,400 residential uses. So, for that reason, it really blends well. If you look at 695 01:25:42,159 --> 01:25:48,800 the map, the rest of the area is brown, which allows what the city calls low and 696 01:25:46,639 --> 01:25:53,199 mid-rise development. This would bring that down to the the permissions that 697 01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:59,600 are already in the area and not really add any permitted, uh, permissions on 698 01:25:55,679 --> 01:26:04,719 the property. Next slide, please. Now, now with that, um, it also requires 699 01:26:02,639 --> 01:26:09,199 an amendment to the zoning bylaw. There was talk before about the historical 700 01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:15,280 approval for Jubilee Gardens. Uh that's why you see a UR5-9 on the screen. The 701 01:26:12,480 --> 01:26:20,719 old St. Bartholomew Church has a UR1 which is a low density residential land 702 01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:24,320 use or land use zone. Now the reason why it's low density and not high density as 703 01:26:22,639 --> 01:26:27,840 I mentioned before council has not yet approved the implementing bylaw to 704 01:26:26,239 --> 01:26:31,679 implement the policies in their official plan. So, if you look at the bottom 705 01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:36,239 picture, what's being proposed in the most recent draft of the zoning bylaw 706 01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:40,159 was to change the site to a MU2, which would allow for highrise and mid-rise 707 01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:43,360 developments. Aside from that is the parking issue, 708 01:26:41,679 --> 01:26:49,120 which I can now address councelor Gills's question, um, as well as 709 01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:52,400 councelor Burls. In terms of the each unit having a designated parking spot, 710 01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:56,480 it's my understanding there there won't be the unit numbers painted on the 711 01:26:54,239 --> 01:27:01,520 space. Uh, so there won't be that. it'll be open to to everybody. Now, in terms 712 01:26:58,719 --> 01:27:05,199 of compromising the 11 spaces, Jubilee Gardens over the years has actually used 713 01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:09,120 some of the church's parking. So, part of this proposal is to actually increase 714 01:27:07,199 --> 01:27:13,520 the number of parking spots for Jubilee Gardens. And this would be dealt with 715 01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:17,840 through site plan and designation wise which spots would be available to them, 716 01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:22,239 but it' be more than the 11 uh but the details would have to be figured out 717 01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:25,360 later on down the road. Now in terms of the 718 01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:29,040 » worship your worship how can we guarantee that 719 01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:32,320 » uh through your worship I'll deal with the question right now as I mentioned 720 01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:37,120 this will be subject to a site plan review process um it could be identified 721 01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:41,440 on the on the plan potentially with uh wording in the agreement um it's just 722 01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:44,880 one avenue this is a discussion we can have with staff if it gets to that point 723 01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:49,440 through the more detailed review and that would actually be written into the 724 01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:53,280 agreement and registered on title if not posted on the site there's other ways to 725 01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:57,920 to recognize that too, right? >> Can I ask you, Mr. Fork, it's unusual, 726 01:27:55,040 --> 01:28:04,239 though? Is there not um people like to have a unit and have a designated spot? 727 01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:07,679 Why was that rejected over this type of system, which seems like 728 01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:09,600 everyone tries to find a spot every night? 729 01:28:08,159 --> 01:28:14,159 » Certainly. And through the chair, um and maybe I can direct that that question to 730 01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:18,239 county staff as well. Um but not every unit that's rented requires a parking 731 01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:21,840 space. It's a matter of internally how they figure that out. uh the specifics I 732 01:28:20,719 --> 01:28:25,440 don't know but maybe after my presentation uh county staff can come up 733 01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:27,840 and see exactly how they plan on dealing with that. 734 01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:32,159 » Okay. Thank you. >> Uh moving on again to the the parking 735 01:28:29,679 --> 01:28:37,840 reduction that's proposed. The reason for the 0.58 spaces per unit is to 736 01:28:35,679 --> 01:28:42,560 recognize the 11 units in Jubilee Gardens. Now that is written into the 737 01:28:40,480 --> 01:28:46,800 zoning bottle. The 42 units are allowed to have 11. Um what the affordable 738 01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:52,480 housing community improvement plan has is a ratio of 0.75. So once you 739 01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:57,440 recognize those 11 spaces, what we're proposing today is 0.72, which is a 740 01:28:54,960 --> 01:29:01,360 reduction of three parking spaces. So I just wanted to make that clear that it 741 01:28:59,440 --> 01:29:04,800 does have that historical approval. We're not considering Jubilee Gardens. 742 01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:08,440 We're considering this new apartment. Next slide, please. 743 01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:14,080 Uh there is a large amount of information that was provided with this 744 01:29:12,239 --> 01:29:17,280 submission. Uh we have taken a very close look at this. Uh there is a 745 01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:20,800 parking and transportation impact study that was submitted functional service 746 01:29:19,280 --> 01:29:24,400 reports as well as the visuals that you saw on the screen before in terms of 747 01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:29,040 architectural elevations and floor plans. Next slide please. 748 01:29:27,440 --> 01:29:32,800 There's also extensive correspondence with area residents. Uh back in February 749 01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:37,840 the county of Lson had an open house that was attended by about 160 750 01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:41,440 residents. Um I wasn't personally there but uh their consultant did do an 751 01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:45,360 extensive report to county council at the time that indicate a strong majority 752 01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:50,800 of those in attendance supported the proposal. Uh next slide please. 753 01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:55,199 » Truly. >> In conclusion, I agree with Mr. 754 01:29:52,639 --> 01:29:58,560 Bradshaw's uh report and recommendation to approve. This really is an ideal 755 01:29:57,040 --> 01:30:03,840 situation for this type of development to take place. It's on a transit route 756 01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:07,440 near grocery store and other services is near pedestrian infrastructure and 757 01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:11,639 housing infrastructure to accommodate it. Next slide, please. 758 01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:16,480 » Again, thank you for the opportunity to present this to you today. I'm here for 759 01:30:14,639 --> 01:30:19,600 any questions or elaborate on any of the parking discussion. 760 01:30:18,480 --> 01:30:24,239 » Council, >> but just for clarification, I was at the 761 01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:28,800 Sacred Heart meetings and I did not get the impression that people were in favor 762 01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:33,360 of the affordable. I think that people were upset because they didn't they 763 01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:37,040 didn't have an any other alternative. It was either you take you you can have 764 01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:41,760 supportive or you can have affordable and that's it. So um people were very 765 01:30:40,159 --> 01:30:45,679 upset that there wasn't even a third option put on the table or even one that 766 01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:48,960 was presented. So just for that clarification. 767 01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:53,520 » Thank you. And through the chair again I'm just going on the the council report 768 01:30:50,480 --> 01:30:57,280 that was provided to county council. >> Do the county staff council girl. Go 769 01:30:55,440 --> 01:31:03,280 ahead. Yes. Um, in part of your analysis, 770 01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:09,040 you're indicating that um, the his, you know, the historical fact that there's 771 01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:15,199 only been, I remember it was 10 or 11 parking spots allocated to the Jubilee 772 01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:20,159 Gardens park, but also my understanding is that 773 01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:24,480 the understand when that went in was that Julie Gardens was going to be a 774 01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:30,000 senior's residence. And I don't think that's the 775 01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:37,199 fact. I certainly know people who live there who are not seniors. 776 01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:42,719 I'm not sure how all that ties in. Um you're kind of leaning on the old rules 777 01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:48,800 for certain things and you're uh bringing in new rules, but if if it's 778 01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:55,440 not really the facts, what do we actually have when we look at this 779 01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:59,840 project as together? like it seems like we're going to be quite a bit short in 780 01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:06,880 terms of parking and especially if um 781 01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:14,480 they are having people there who are not seniors. 782 01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:20,040 What I'm assuming that it is a geared both facilities are geared to income. Is 783 01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,040 that correct? 784 01:32:21,199 --> 01:32:28,000 Um so through you your worship. Um that is correct. Both buildings the current 785 01:32:26,480 --> 01:32:33,040 one on the property and the proposed one are rent geared to income. Um so they 786 01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:37,199 will be deeply affordable. Um as such when we look at our current tenant 787 01:32:34,480 --> 01:32:40,800 complement amongst our 850 other geared to income units. Our car ownership rates 788 01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:45,120 are significantly lower than what you would find in the private market or even 789 01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:48,560 standard affordable units. So right now when we look at our car ownership rate, 790 01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:55,040 our parking utilization, we're at about.36 spaces per unit across our 791 01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:58,960 units within the city of Sarnia. Um so I hope that answers that question. In 792 01:32:56,480 --> 01:33:03,199 terms of the designated parking spots, um so out of all of our apartment 793 01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:07,520 buildings, we don't do designated spots again because we don't have one spot per 794 01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:10,880 unit based on the low car ownership. um it just creates issues if we have the 795 01:33:09,679 --> 01:33:14,880 parking spot right out front that everyone wants and that's designated to 796 01:33:12,480 --> 01:33:19,520 unit 101 but that unit doesn't have a car and the unit 410 wants that spot 797 01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:24,560 because of mobility issues then people are are fighting over it. So um we tend 798 01:33:22,239 --> 01:33:30,639 to do the non-desated spots and we don't have issues in our current parking again 799 01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:34,000 because of that car the ownership you um there's not the the fighting over 800 01:33:32,480 --> 01:33:37,440 spots. >> And could you just for the record for 801 01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:40,080 the public identify yourself? Sorry. Um, my name is Melissa Johnson. I'm the 802 01:33:38,719 --> 01:33:43,520 manager of housing services for the county of lamp. 803 01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:46,320 » So much. Thank you, Mr. Fus. Anything else you want to add or? 804 01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:50,960 » Uh, yeah. Thank you, I will just add on to that. Um, this is more parking than 805 01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:54,960 what's was approved for Kathleen Avenue. uh the county's most recent uh 806 01:33:53,440 --> 01:33:59,040 development as well as there was a parking utilization study uh that was 807 01:33:57,520 --> 01:34:03,360 brought forward with the application that looked at the county of sorry the 808 01:34:01,360 --> 01:34:07,679 county of lamp's needs for their housing developments and this is well over any 809 01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:10,480 of their other developments. So um they're still providing more parking 810 01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:12,320 than they feel they need but we still are asking for that reduction. Thank 811 01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:16,320 you. >> Thank you very much. I have Deb Willis 812 01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:19,320 if she like Willis if you'd like to come forward. 813 01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:37,280 then I have Reverend Murray after 814 01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:59,280 This is my first time. Bear with me. Good afternoon, city mayor and council 815 01:34:55,760 --> 01:35:03,840 of Sarnia. My name is Debbie and I have lived in the Cathkart Cobra neighborhood 816 01:35:01,199 --> 01:35:08,880 for 26 years. I am here today not as a public speaker 817 01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:13,920 quite the opposite or a member of an activist group but as a concerned 818 01:35:11,440 --> 01:35:18,560 citizen representing my neighborhood which has been low density which gives 819 01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:23,040 it its unique charm. We have two small buildings. Jubilee 820 01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:28,080 Gardens, which is in a government affordable housing that is a two-story 821 01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:32,400 building set back in from Cathkart and has some beautiful mature trees in 822 01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:37,600 keeping with our neighborhood aesthetics and Oak Acres Apartments, which is a 2 823 01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:45,280 and a half story building on the corner of Chem Culbrron. Next slide. 824 01:35:42,719 --> 01:35:50,639 I would like to share our perspective regarding the proposed highdensity 825 01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:55,120 development. How will how it will impact the character and infrastructure of our 826 01:35:52,800 --> 01:36:01,760 neighborhood and the lack of transparency input by us despite the 827 01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:08,080 fact that we'd be the ones that are directly affected by what the county 828 01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:13,600 proposes to do. The county we feel acted hastily in purchasing St. Barthol St. 829 01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:19,840 Bartholomew's property the Diosis of Huron which is located in 830 01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:26,400 London not Sarnia or lamp county made an internal decision to sell the property 831 01:36:22,080 --> 01:36:32,800 in Sarnia to the county at market value to understand this when St. Barts and 832 01:36:30,080 --> 01:36:40,719 the Diosis bought that property it's estimated between 15,000 to $30,000 833 01:36:37,199 --> 01:36:47,000 per land spot. Now they're selling it for 1 point or they've sold it for $1.95 834 01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:47,000 million. 835 01:36:48,159 --> 01:36:56,960 And um I said they built it oh sorry um they didn't take into consideration how 836 01:36:54,320 --> 01:37:02,320 the neighborhood would or would not feel. There was absolutely no 837 01:36:58,480 --> 01:37:07,760 involvement until February of 2026. After the purchase, the county decided 838 01:37:04,639 --> 01:37:12,239 to hold a pre-registered meeting on Tuesday, February the 10th with only 3 839 01:37:10,239 --> 01:37:17,280 days notice. Due to turnout, the county held two more 840 01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:22,080 meetings on February the 11th. Many residents in the neighborhood could 841 01:37:19,119 --> 01:37:26,080 not attend due to other commitments that could not be rearranged due to such 842 01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:30,800 short notice. Those who did attend voiced their 843 01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:35,280 concerns. Correct. Thank you to those residents who voice 844 01:37:32,880 --> 01:37:39,280 their concerns which can be extremely anxietyprovoking 845 01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:45,199 with the advocacy advocacy groups present who can make the neighbors 846 01:37:42,239 --> 01:37:51,440 concerns feel irrelevant. I heard after these meetings those advoc 847 01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:57,280 advoc advocacy groups labeling my neighbors as nimi. 848 01:37:54,400 --> 01:38:02,639 Nimi is an abbreviated form for not in my backyard. 849 01:37:59,920 --> 01:38:07,520 Did they forget we have affordable government housing in our neighborhood? 850 01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:12,560 Do they have affordable government housing as their neighbors? 851 01:38:10,480 --> 01:38:19,520 Next slide. Again, the county paid $1.95 million of 852 01:38:16,400 --> 01:38:23,280 our taxes and have and will use another million dollars to demolish the church, 853 01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:28,400 which they've already done, and for pre-planning with zero input from the 854 01:38:25,440 --> 01:38:34,560 citizens who paid the taxes. The only consistent excuse I could find 855 01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:39,920 for the county to rush the purchase was to secure time-sensitive provincial and 856 01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:45,280 federal funding. If government funding is time-sensitive, 857 01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:52,800 why did they not purchase 321 Divine Street? It was listed power of sale by 858 01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:56,719 Kolars Canada in midappril of 2024. I called Kolers. 859 01:38:55,040 --> 01:39:02,239 It is already zoned for multi-residential. 860 01:38:59,119 --> 01:39:10,159 The lot is vacant of any structures. The cost $2.5 million. 861 01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:16,320 Which is a taxpayer saving of $500,000. Cathkart property was not offered to the 862 01:39:12,719 --> 01:39:21,119 county until June 2024, two months after Divine Street was 863 01:39:18,159 --> 01:39:26,800 available and not finalized um the Cathkart property until April of 864 01:39:23,760 --> 01:39:33,600 2025. And again, the residents not notified till February 2026. 865 01:39:31,119 --> 01:39:37,760 By going doortodoor in my neighborhood, I had the opportunity to truly 866 01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:43,840 understand how they felt about the Cathkart highdensity build with another 867 01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:47,199 possible build on the same site at a later date. 868 01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:52,320 That would be what they call the rectory that they're going to use to house the 869 01:39:50,159 --> 01:39:55,440 building people. And once it's done, they're going to look at another 870 01:39:53,280 --> 01:40:03,760 multi-residential. Over 95% of those home those um were 871 01:40:01,119 --> 01:40:10,000 homes sorry were opposed to the build due to the density, safety, aesthetics, 872 01:40:07,440 --> 01:40:15,119 infrastructure and lack of in of transparency and input. 873 01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:20,080 My young daughters who are here today and I took this opportunity to allow the 874 01:40:18,159 --> 01:40:24,480 immediate neighbors who would be affected by the county build to sign a 875 01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:29,119 petition so they felt like their voices were 876 01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:33,840 heard. We had five who did not sign out of fear of being called prejudiced 877 01:40:31,119 --> 01:40:37,760 uncaring and did not agree with the build. 878 01:40:36,159 --> 01:40:42,400 one who did not sign because she was blind 879 01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:48,320 and one person who declined to sign until they got more information and two 880 01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:53,119 who agreed with a build. Again, we are not nimi and we have 881 01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:58,400 government building that already exists in our neighborhood. 882 01:40:55,760 --> 01:41:03,360 Oh. Oh, yeah. He's with me. [laughter] Okay. Those who could make the short 883 01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:09,119 notice meetings were strongly in favor of affordable government housing for 884 01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:12,560 seniors who would blend nicely into our neighborhood of seniors and young 885 01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:16,239 families. The county rejected their 886 01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:21,040 recommendation. There was clear there was clear the 887 01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:25,199 opposition opposition to inddwell or supportive housing. 888 01:41:23,119 --> 01:41:31,440 The county said it would be rent geared to income affordable housing. Many did 889 01:41:28,480 --> 01:41:36,960 not know that this meant anyone in Lamp County, one to two and maybe even three 890 01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:43,679 people with the county set annual income of $27,000 for onebedroom unit 891 01:41:40,159 --> 01:41:48,159 irregardless of background or histories. According to the human Ontario human 892 01:41:45,679 --> 01:41:51,920 rights code, no applicant can be excluded from government affordable 893 01:41:50,080 --> 01:41:57,440 housing. This would exclude our minimum wage 894 01:41:55,119 --> 01:42:02,719 full-time jobs as their income annually would put them 895 01:41:59,920 --> 01:42:08,960 at 36,000. Their struggles will continue. 896 01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:14,639 Another vital piece not addressed to our neighborhood was that they, the county, 897 01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:20,320 can at any time, which we've just heard now, change existing affordable housing 898 01:42:18,159 --> 01:42:27,119 to supportive and according to my research, Sarna does not have specific 899 01:42:22,560 --> 01:42:31,600 bylaws to stop the county from doing so. When we the residents in the of the city 900 01:42:29,520 --> 01:42:37,360 of Sarnia address our neighborhood concerns, it is important that activists 901 01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:43,360 in county understand that we are not insensitive or unempathetic. Actually, 902 01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:48,639 we are quite the opposite. But forcing anyone into compliance and 903 01:42:46,159 --> 01:42:53,520 acceptance erodess the trust in our elected. 904 01:42:50,960 --> 01:42:57,840 Next slide, please. This situation by the county has 905 01:42:55,360 --> 01:43:04,239 encouraged me to do a lot of research. I'm talking about 50 to 60 hours of 906 01:43:00,639 --> 01:43:09,119 research I've done. In my research, I found that according to the United 907 01:43:05,760 --> 01:43:14,000 Nations urban planning research and social studies that there was 908 01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:21,040 overwhelming favor in distributing government housing, scatter site they 909 01:43:17,119 --> 01:43:25,280 call it, rather than clustering them. Pathfart already has government housing. 910 01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:29,600 Many of Sarna's surrounding municipalities with transit, grocery 911 01:43:27,520 --> 01:43:35,280 stores, andarmacies have no government housing. 912 01:43:32,400 --> 01:43:41,760 Examples are Corona. Transit can be extended from Tashimu to Hill Street. 913 01:43:38,400 --> 01:43:44,800 Wyoming, Petroleia, they have one government affordable housing. It's 914 01:43:43,280 --> 01:43:51,440 seniors. Rights Grove and Point Edward 915 01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:56,480 they all have mayor representation in the county. 916 01:43:53,360 --> 01:44:02,480 Proincially there was I which is called inclusionary zoning. 917 01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:07,360 Thern decided to bypass I new build neighborhoods in favor of 918 01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:12,480 other affordable housing methods. Now, the Ontario government has paused 919 01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:18,320 and capped I requirements to avoid chilling new developments. That was 920 01:44:15,040 --> 01:44:22,880 quoted from government. To address our concerns over clustering, 921 01:44:21,199 --> 01:44:27,199 affordable one-bedroom government housing can have one to two occupants 922 01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:31,360 per unit, and I've since heard even maybe up to three. 923 01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:37,679 That means the population of Jubilees Gardens is between, this is only on one 924 01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:46,000 to two, 41 to 82 people. With the county proposed build, the 925 01:44:40,639 --> 01:44:50,239 population would be 94 to 188. Then the county said the rectory, the 926 01:44:48,320 --> 01:44:56,239 white house to the east side, that was in the very first slide, would be used 927 01:44:52,719 --> 01:45:02,159 for multi-residential units are sold. Upon researching, any property already 928 01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:07,840 owned has a 80 to 90% chance of being utilized instead of being sold. 929 01:45:05,199 --> 01:45:12,320 Currently, the population is is unknown as again the county has not been 930 01:45:10,080 --> 01:45:18,719 transparent. Here's what we do know. 931 01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:25,760 Uh two using two local examples when you cluster build instead of scatter site. 932 01:45:22,480 --> 01:45:30,880 Cluster build on Kathleen Street. Kathleen has seen higher instances of 933 01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:34,239 property crime, drugrelated arrests, and public safety issues which are 934 01:45:32,719 --> 01:45:38,560 concentrated around its government housing. 935 01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:43,040 Buster built on Roger Street. Roger Street has been the site of multiple 936 01:45:40,560 --> 01:45:48,639 high-profile police incidences, including armed standoffs, drug busts, 937 01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:53,520 and violent assaults. Can the county guarantee the safety of 938 01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:56,880 the neighborhood with their cluster built? 939 01:45:55,119 --> 01:46:01,600 I researched and found that municipalities and counties have 940 01:45:59,760 --> 01:46:08,239 immunity. So if there is any theft, property 941 01:46:04,560 --> 01:46:14,880 damage, burglaries, assaults, criminal activity, our only recourse course is to 942 01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:19,600 call 911 or a claim on our house insurance. 943 01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:26,000 As an FYI for our neighbors, you can make one to two claims every 10 944 01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:31,920 years without a rate increase. However, a second claim in a three to fiveyear 945 01:46:28,719 --> 01:46:36,719 window can double your rates or even lead to cancellation or refusal to 946 01:46:35,119 --> 01:46:45,360 renew. I looked up stat uh statistics Canada. 947 01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:50,639 Singles, mostly male, on the 2021 census stated 948 01:46:47,440 --> 01:46:56,080 that they tend to have in poverty clustering higher rates of crime within 949 01:46:53,679 --> 01:47:01,760 the neighborhood as it's their neighborhood. They know what's going on. 950 01:46:58,719 --> 01:47:06,159 So, this is a very real concern. Safety is a concern and should be 951 01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:09,920 acknowledged without passing judgment on us. 952 01:47:07,440 --> 01:47:16,159 I found through internet search that the municipality or for that matter Sarnia 953 01:47:12,880 --> 01:47:21,520 has the legal, ethical and human rights obligation to ensure our safety. Canada 954 01:47:19,119 --> 01:47:27,679 canada.ca. Next slide, please. Aesthetics. 955 01:47:25,440 --> 01:47:31,920 Affordable housing must comply with the same building restrictions and design 956 01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:35,360 standards as market rate housing and will be designed to fit in with the 957 01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:40,159 character of their neighborhood. Ontario Human Rights Commission. 958 01:47:38,159 --> 01:47:44,480 Many of us in the Coburn and Cathkart neighborhood have brought it to the 959 01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:48,480 county's attention that their new built does not reflect the character of our 960 01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:54,719 neighborhood and looks very much like an institution from the Cathkart road view. 961 01:47:52,239 --> 01:47:59,600 The height is also an issue which will make it tower over any other build. From 962 01:47:57,840 --> 01:48:03,440 the artist impression, there is no frontage between the citywalk and the 963 01:48:01,600 --> 01:48:08,800 building. Next slide, please. 964 01:48:05,920 --> 01:48:15,119 Parking. Zernia had a 1.5 to two parking spots 965 01:48:12,239 --> 01:48:21,040 per unit requirement. According to my internet search engine on parking bylaw 966 01:48:17,840 --> 01:48:25,840 locally in the spring of 2026, Sarnia amended the requirements to be 0.75 967 01:48:23,520 --> 01:48:30,639 spots per unit. The county has allotted Jubilee Gardens. 968 01:48:28,480 --> 01:48:36,880 I put down here it said 41 units but I guess it's 42 units. 11 parking spots 969 01:48:34,719 --> 01:48:40,239 not acknowledging they had parking that used of the 970 01:48:38,639 --> 01:48:50,239 churches. Uh and then uh 971 01:48:44,400 --> 01:48:58,080 okay with 11 and then um the 135 units uh will have 68 units. That's a total of 972 01:48:53,280 --> 01:49:05,440 79 parking spots for 135 units in total. This will fall well short of the 0.75 973 01:49:01,360 --> 01:49:10,400 spots per unit by 31 spots. Without adequate parking, there is a 974 01:49:07,920 --> 01:49:15,719 high risk of spillover onto the road, nearby businesses, and residential 975 01:49:12,719 --> 01:49:15,719 streets. 976 01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:23,360 Transit Pathtart Route 7 is not a busy route and 977 01:49:20,719 --> 01:49:29,600 as such it only runs every 60 to 80 80 minutes. It stops early and if transit 978 01:49:26,719 --> 01:49:35,440 is needed the uter must use dryer dial a ride. Busier more frequent bus routes 979 01:49:32,719 --> 01:49:40,639 are route nine on Xmouth, route four on X Maxwell, route one on 980 01:49:38,639 --> 01:49:46,239 Divine and Confed and that's from the city of Sarna source. 981 01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:49,760 Next slide please. Some examples of how buildings have 982 01:49:47,840 --> 01:49:56,639 blended with our neighborhood aesthetics are the fire station. That's the second 983 01:49:52,960 --> 01:50:01,600 picture on M Coburn in Michigan. Oak Eager's apartment on Chemley and Coburn. 984 01:49:59,040 --> 01:50:07,040 Jubilee Gardens on Cathkart. And that's the third picture. 985 01:50:03,920 --> 01:50:12,239 And even the hydro building on Culver, which is I put their hydro. 986 01:50:10,239 --> 01:50:17,040 The old St. Barts blended in with our aesthetics of our neighborhood before 987 01:50:13,840 --> 01:50:22,320 the county tore it down. Next slide. 988 01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:27,679 In conclusion, Cathkart neighborhood property owners are deeply concerned 989 01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:32,080 with the lack of county transparency and how they went to transform, how they 990 01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:37,440 want to transform our lowdensity neighborhood to a highdensity cluster 991 01:50:34,320 --> 01:50:43,360 build despite what has occurred in other cluster builds in Sarnia. I also say 992 01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:47,920 this in support of Kathleen Street as well because they took away a park to 993 01:50:45,360 --> 01:50:52,560 build an apartment. We are concerned with the exclusion of 994 01:50:49,840 --> 01:50:57,920 those who will be directly impacted, safety concerns, parking, transit 995 01:50:55,600 --> 01:51:03,679 issues, aesthetics, and the loss of green space. As well, there was concern 996 01:51:01,119 --> 01:51:08,960 with the impact on the infrastructure with our water sewer lines dating back 997 01:51:06,480 --> 01:51:13,600 to post World War II. Again, that was on the city of Sarnia site. 998 01:51:11,440 --> 01:51:18,159 Due to all of the forementioned, we the property owners and residents are 999 01:51:16,159 --> 01:51:22,480 formally objecting to the planning application for the government 1000 01:51:19,600 --> 01:51:30,080 subsidized lowincome housing development for 7800 718 Cathkart Boulevard. 1001 01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:36,320 As such, I would like to present to the city of 1002 01:51:33,199 --> 01:51:42,239 Sarnia a petition of 211 signatures of immediate residents 1003 01:51:40,159 --> 01:51:45,360 in the neighborhood and that's all I could do because I've got bad knees. 1004 01:51:43,679 --> 01:51:49,360 Otherwise, we would have covered the whole neighborhood. I only covered half. 1005 01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:52,400 » Okay. Thank you for that and thank you for the presentation. The clerk will 1006 01:51:50,960 --> 01:51:55,199 take your petition so it's on the record. 1007 01:51:54,000 --> 01:51:59,840 Well, thank you very much for the presentation. 1008 01:51:57,040 --> 01:52:05,239 And can I call on Reverend come up for come forward please? 1009 01:52:26,320 --> 01:52:32,800 Your worship and members of council, thank you for this opportunity to speak 1010 01:52:30,880 --> 01:52:36,960 to the recommended bylaw changes and amendments regarding the proposed 1011 01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:41,760 affordable housing project on Cathkart Boulevard. For this opportunity to give 1012 01:52:39,599 --> 01:52:47,520 voice to a silent majority of support for this work in general. 1013 01:52:44,639 --> 01:52:51,760 My name is Kenji Marui. I use he him as pronouns and I'm part of the ministry 1014 01:52:49,679 --> 01:52:57,679 team with Grace United Church also located on Cathkart Boulevard uh 1100 1015 01:52:54,960 --> 01:53:02,159 meters east of the site in question. Our church has 400 people on its membership 1016 01:52:59,840 --> 01:53:06,639 role the majority of whom reside in the north end of Sarnia. 1017 01:53:04,880 --> 01:53:11,119 My understanding is that these motions address procedural impediments to the 1018 01:53:08,560 --> 01:53:15,280 proposed building plan and I encourage their adoption so that progress might 1019 01:53:13,280 --> 01:53:19,440 continue. Prior to the closing of St. 1020 01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:23,920 Bartholomew's Anglican Church, I worked with their leadership on multiple 1021 01:53:20,960 --> 01:53:27,360 occasions. Our congregations held mutual respect and regard for each other's 1022 01:53:25,679 --> 01:53:31,679 ministries. As their ministry wound down and they 1023 01:53:29,920 --> 01:53:36,000 imagined a future beyond their doors closing, I know they desired a legacy 1024 01:53:34,239 --> 01:53:41,119 that would support the unhoused in Sarnia and had been frustrated by 1025 01:53:38,400 --> 01:53:47,040 complicated processes required by their church cinnid, the uh dasis of Hiron, 1026 01:53:44,719 --> 01:53:52,000 the city of Sarnia and the county of Lamp. What these official plan and 1027 01:53:49,760 --> 01:53:57,199 zoning bylaw amendments seek to do appear reasonable, straightforward to 1028 01:53:54,239 --> 01:54:01,920 me, and respectful of the vision of St. Barts, as well as the local residential 1029 01:53:59,679 --> 01:54:05,920 context. Also having worked with family of 1030 01:54:03,679 --> 01:54:10,320 parishes, Sacred Heart Roman Catholic, St. Giles Presbyterian, Redeemer 1031 01:54:08,239 --> 01:54:14,800 Christian Reformed, and Dunlop Central United Churches specifically on the 1032 01:54:12,159 --> 01:54:18,880 issue of the unhoused. I can attest to the support for this project and how it 1033 01:54:17,040 --> 01:54:23,440 aligns with the values of our faith communities. We affirm that the 1034 01:54:21,360 --> 01:54:29,199 provision of basic human needs affords respect to all and invests in our 1035 01:54:26,320 --> 01:54:33,040 collective thriving by providing a stable and sustainable answer to the 1036 01:54:31,040 --> 01:54:38,000 questions. Where am I going to sleep tonight? How can I afford a roof over my 1037 01:54:35,280 --> 01:54:43,040 head? Where can I be safe? Affordable housing grants dignity to its residents 1038 01:54:40,639 --> 01:54:48,560 as well as better physical and mental health. We value diversity and bringing 1039 01:54:46,239 --> 01:54:54,639 people together of all backgrounds, cultures, abilities, social standing. 1040 01:54:51,840 --> 01:55:00,560 We see far too, excuse me, we see far too often uh in the news locally and 1041 01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:06,320 internationally that silos of sameness lead to distrust of others, inability to 1042 01:55:03,760 --> 01:55:09,599 disagree constructively, and fear of change. 1043 01:55:07,679 --> 01:55:14,080 I ask that city and county councils continue to demonstrate collaboration 1044 01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:18,320 between independent bodies for a common good in the same manner as the disperate 1045 01:55:16,480 --> 01:55:23,360 and different church denominations I just mentioned come together for common 1046 01:55:21,040 --> 01:55:27,520 cause for the betterment and enrichment of community. 1047 01:55:25,679 --> 01:55:31,520 Grace United Church has embraced efforts such as this affordable housing project 1048 01:55:29,199 --> 01:55:37,920 in its past welcoming such endeavors into its backyard literally since 1997. 1049 01:55:35,760 --> 01:55:42,960 and Grace United Church has provided its mance for the use of community living to 1050 01:55:40,639 --> 01:55:48,960 offer respit care and housing for its clients. I look out of my office window 1051 01:55:45,920 --> 01:55:55,199 across the back lawn and see a tangible representation of collaboration, 1052 01:55:51,440 --> 01:55:57,920 connection, and community. Yes, in my backyard. 1053 01:55:56,800 --> 01:56:03,040 Thank you for your time. >> Thank you very much, sir. This is a 1054 01:56:00,400 --> 01:56:06,159 public uh meeting and if there's anyone that wishes to speak, would they please 1055 01:56:04,480 --> 01:56:10,239 come forward right now and identify themselves, their address? And I'd also 1056 01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:15,480 ask you keep your remarks fairly succinct since we've had a number of 1057 01:56:11,679 --> 01:56:15,480 delegations so far. 1058 01:56:25,840 --> 01:56:32,159 » Thank you. Uh my name is William Scott, 35 Bradley Place. 1059 01:56:30,320 --> 01:56:36,239 Had the honor of meeting uh meeting Deb Willis's uh two daughters yesterday. I 1060 01:56:34,639 --> 01:56:41,199 hope they have a good future in uh public advocacy. I just wanted to point 1061 01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:45,119 out uh three things. Not against affordable housing, and I don't mean to 1062 01:56:43,119 --> 01:56:50,560 speak for uh the St. Bart's congregation, although I was a member 1063 01:56:47,280 --> 01:56:55,679 there for 37 years until they closed. I think the proposed changes that Deb 1064 01:56:54,320 --> 01:57:00,719 covered them to a certain extent. And I won't go into the traffic. Thought that 1065 01:56:57,280 --> 01:57:09,119 was well covered. Too high at four stories compared to the standard twotory 1066 01:57:04,320 --> 01:57:15,199 within a mile radius of St. Barts seems a bridge too far. The setbacks are 1067 01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:23,520 insufficient. It'll be the closest building to Cathgart and will not fit in 1068 01:57:18,960 --> 01:57:29,679 with the overall area. I would suggest affordable housing. I think we all 1069 01:57:26,239 --> 01:57:34,080 support that, but a twostory building would seem to make much more sense for 1070 01:57:31,840 --> 01:57:40,239 that location. And therefore, I would suggest or it would be my opinion that 1071 01:57:36,800 --> 01:57:44,320 the uh proposed amendments to the bylaws uh not be allowed to go proceed. 1072 01:57:42,560 --> 01:57:50,400 » Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. >> Okay, with that, I will I will close the 1073 01:57:47,760 --> 01:57:54,639 public portion. I'm sorry, Mr. Folks, as the applicant, you have the right to 1074 01:57:51,760 --> 01:58:00,440 come back to not reargue, but to rebut any factual things you think need to be 1075 01:57:56,320 --> 01:58:00,440 addressed under the planning act. 1076 01:58:01,119 --> 01:58:05,679 » Thank you, worship. I'll keep this brief. I'll just concentrate on the 1077 01:58:03,520 --> 01:58:08,960 comments that I heard that I I don't necessarily agree with. I want council 1078 01:58:07,119 --> 01:58:13,040 to give consideration to what should be considered. Um, first of all, um, 1079 01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:15,520 council knows the documents that you need to consider. The provincial 1080 01:58:14,159 --> 01:58:19,920 planning statement, the county of Lampson official plan, the city of 1081 01:58:17,040 --> 01:58:24,239 Varnia official plan. Um those documents have been reviewed by myself as well as 1082 01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:28,320 from Mr. Hyatt, Mr. Bradshaw and his team. We both agree that it is 1083 01:58:26,159 --> 01:58:32,880 consistent with the PPS and conforms to those official plans. Second of all, I 1084 01:58:30,719 --> 01:58:38,080 want to talk about exactly what council is voting on today. First of all, 1085 01:58:35,679 --> 01:58:42,080 there's been talk about high density, increased density. I want to make it 1086 01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:47,199 clear the official plan amendment is a reduction in height and a reduction in 1087 01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:52,480 density. The only other changes are to allow a a smaller first floor and to 1088 01:58:49,920 --> 01:58:57,199 allow more than 50% of the first floor to be used for residential space. The 1089 01:58:54,480 --> 01:59:01,840 rest of it is a downward or a decrease in in intensification. 1090 01:58:59,599 --> 01:59:07,679 Second of all, the zoning bylaw change here um I'll compare it to what is in 1091 01:59:05,360 --> 01:59:10,880 the most recent draft. The changes for that is one parking which we've 1092 01:59:09,520 --> 01:59:16,719 discussed. We're talking about a reduction in three parking spaces. 1093 01:59:14,239 --> 01:59:20,560 Second change is the angular plane. So that is the setback a building needs to 1094 01:59:18,560 --> 01:59:24,800 be from the property line in terms of its height. The building will be 14 1095 01:59:22,560 --> 01:59:29,280 meters which is 2 meters taller than what can be built as of right anywhere 1096 01:59:26,560 --> 01:59:33,280 in the neighborhood. And the setback is 8 m to a property line that doesn't even 1097 01:59:31,920 --> 01:59:38,880 exist yet because it's owned by the county of lamp. the angler plane would 1098 01:59:35,920 --> 01:59:43,040 be much or the setback to the north lot line which is the closest residential 1099 01:59:40,639 --> 01:59:46,639 uses to the site is nearly double than what would be required. So I really just 1100 01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:50,880 want to concentrate on those two items. Again, thank you for allowing me to 1101 01:59:48,320 --> 01:59:54,880 adjust this and >> councelor McRoberts a question. 1102 01:59:53,520 --> 01:59:59,280 » Thank you through the chair. I'm not sure if it would go to you or the county 1103 01:59:57,520 --> 02:00:03,920 staff. If we're talking uh as a reference to 1104 02:00:01,520 --> 02:00:08,480 only having a twostory building, what is the cost of having to build two twostory 1105 02:00:06,480 --> 02:00:12,000 buildings in separate sites to house those that need it? And we're still not 1106 02:00:10,000 --> 02:00:16,400 covering everyone that needs affordable housing at this point compared to the 1107 02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:19,599 cost of one fourstory. >> Your worship to the to the question by 1108 02:00:18,159 --> 02:00:24,480 the counselor. I'll defer to county staff on that the specifics of that. I 1109 02:00:22,320 --> 02:00:28,000 do just want to highlight one more item that I think has been missed. In the 1110 02:00:26,080 --> 02:00:33,599 official plan, the city strives to have 30% of all new units to be affordable. 1111 02:00:30,960 --> 02:00:37,920 This would contribute a great deal to the city accomplishing that goal. Um, 1112 02:00:36,320 --> 02:00:41,679 not only for affordable, but there's also targets for intensification. This 1113 02:00:40,080 --> 02:00:46,480 intensification would help the city meet those goals as well. 1114 02:00:43,280 --> 02:00:50,239 » Thank councelor Mc Roberts. >> Your workshop to councelor McRoberts. In 1115 02:00:48,719 --> 02:00:53,599 terms of the cost of building two two-story buildings, I don't have those 1116 02:00:51,920 --> 02:00:57,040 exact numbers, but we know in construction that the bulk of the cost 1117 02:00:55,119 --> 02:01:01,040 comes from the foundation. It's the concrete, it's the rebar, it's the site 1118 02:00:58,719 --> 02:01:05,760 work. Um, going higher is more cost effective than going uh longer or wider. 1119 02:01:04,400 --> 02:01:11,119 It's that foundation work that is definitely the bulk. So, foreseeably, 1120 02:01:08,320 --> 02:01:13,840 two separate buildings would be a sign cost. 1121 02:01:12,320 --> 02:01:17,840 » Robert, follow up. As long as you're here, Melissa. Um, 1122 02:01:16,159 --> 02:01:24,239 sorry, shouldn't have called you by your first name. Um, we are now 1123 02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:29,679 train of thought. Give me one second. Oh, can we not just say and agree to 1124 02:01:27,199 --> 02:01:35,280 that this will be deeply affordable and not supportive in its lifetime 1125 02:01:33,360 --> 02:01:39,040 for this neighborhood and look for other sites for those builds? 1126 02:01:37,760 --> 02:01:43,760 » Through your worship to councelor McRoberts. Um, as as you're aware, 1127 02:01:41,040 --> 02:01:48,880 councelor McRoberts, at the March 44th county council meeting, council did 1128 02:01:46,080 --> 02:01:53,280 declare the use of that property as RGI renting housing and not supportive 1129 02:01:50,880 --> 02:01:57,599 housing. The intended use is to operate just like Jubilee Gardens is currently. 1130 02:01:55,520 --> 02:02:01,040 Um, so that declaration has been made by county council. 1131 02:01:58,880 --> 02:02:04,320 » Thank you, Councelor Dennis. And then >> Yes. Uh, thank you, Mayor Bradley. 1132 02:02:02,719 --> 02:02:11,480 Actually, I have a question for both you folks. Um, are either one of you uh are 1133 02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:11,480 uh Snee residents 1134 02:02:13,599 --> 02:02:18,880 » uh through your worship? Again, I'm not sure if this is relevant to the whole 1135 02:02:16,560 --> 02:02:21,599 application. I am a resident of Sarnia. Yes, I am. 1136 02:02:20,080 --> 02:02:25,280 » Are you are you homeowners? >> I am. Yes. 1137 02:02:23,280 --> 02:02:31,119 » Would you purchase a home right across from a facility like this? 1138 02:02:29,360 --> 02:02:34,000 » I mean, that's a hypothetical question. you're here to present. 1139 02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:37,800 » So, >> it's a relevant question. 1140 02:02:40,400 --> 02:02:48,320 » I I don't think you would. >> I can I can comment on that in that the 1141 02:02:45,599 --> 02:02:51,360 the build that's proposed is the same use that's already existing on the 1142 02:02:49,840 --> 02:02:56,639 property. >> Well, no. My my question to you was as a 1143 02:02:54,080 --> 02:03:02,400 SNI resident, as a a home own a homeowner, would you purchase a a home 1144 02:03:00,000 --> 02:03:05,920 on a property or right across from a property like you were planning on 1145 02:03:03,840 --> 02:03:12,599 building on Cathkart? Would you purchase a house next door or across the road? 1146 02:03:08,320 --> 02:03:12,599 Yes or no? It's a simple question. 1147 02:03:13,199 --> 02:03:16,080 » Through the chair again, I I don't believe it's relevant to this 1148 02:03:15,280 --> 02:03:20,159 application. >> Oh, it's it's very re very relevant. 1149 02:03:18,719 --> 02:03:22,960 » It's up to the council to make the decision. I appreciate your 1150 02:03:21,599 --> 02:03:25,920 presentations and everyone else to present it on both sides of the issue, 1151 02:03:24,480 --> 02:03:30,320 but it's up to the council to make a determination of this is good planning 1152 02:03:27,360 --> 02:03:35,440 or not. So, thank you very much. >> One more question if I may, your 1153 02:03:32,639 --> 02:03:41,440 worship. Um, and it could be to either either folks. Uh, with regard to 1154 02:03:39,280 --> 02:03:45,280 I don't think there's been there's any argument that we need to build more 1155 02:03:43,119 --> 02:03:49,599 affordable housing and rent gear to income is very similar to what's already 1156 02:03:47,199 --> 02:03:53,599 there. You're correct in that statement. I think the biggest problem that people 1157 02:03:51,520 --> 02:03:58,639 see from this is it's an overbuild on the site and the fact that it's going to 1158 02:03:55,920 --> 02:04:03,119 be the dominant feature of this site. The second thing that they see is the 1159 02:04:00,880 --> 02:04:08,480 encroachment more or less of the building to the sidewalk. So that it's 1160 02:04:06,320 --> 02:04:14,320 it's just there all the like it's in your face as opposed to what was there 1161 02:04:11,520 --> 02:04:20,480 which was there was no sidewalk at that point. So is there any um opportunity 1162 02:04:19,280 --> 02:04:26,239 without going to the committee of adjustment to have this massaged a 1163 02:04:23,199 --> 02:04:30,000 little bit more >> for your worship? Uh I'll address that 1164 02:04:28,480 --> 02:04:34,719 question in terms of the setback from the street you're referring to. Um so 1165 02:04:32,480 --> 02:04:39,440 what we planned on for this development is to comply with the standards in 1166 02:04:36,880 --> 02:04:43,360 place. There is no reduction in the the setback from the street. Actually, it's 1167 02:04:41,840 --> 02:04:46,880 going to be an increase from what the draft bylaw has for apartment building. 1168 02:04:45,360 --> 02:04:50,880 As I mentioned in my presentation, this would be zoned to a MU2 according to the 1169 02:04:49,119 --> 02:04:55,119 draft bylaw. And I believe the most recent draft had a 4.5 meter setback 1170 02:04:53,360 --> 02:04:59,119 from the street. Mr. Hay can correct me if I'm wrong. What's being proposed here 1171 02:04:56,880 --> 02:05:04,000 is 9 meters, so double what the city deems appropriate uh in their draft 1172 02:05:01,760 --> 02:05:07,599 zoning bylaw. U there's also going to be sidewalk connections uh proposed along 1173 02:05:06,080 --> 02:05:11,280 the street and to the the building itself. Um, again, I don't think that 1174 02:05:10,000 --> 02:05:15,920 was mentioned in my presentation, but just to uh improve the the pedestrian 1175 02:05:14,239 --> 02:05:18,800 infrastructure in the area, but in terms of the setback from the street, it would 1176 02:05:17,119 --> 02:05:21,599 be double what was being proposed in the DR. 1177 02:05:20,000 --> 02:05:25,840 » Thank you. >> Basically, what I'm looking for is that 1178 02:05:23,280 --> 02:05:30,159 it can somehow um incorporate itself into the existing 1179 02:05:28,080 --> 02:05:34,560 neighborhood without taking away from it. 1180 02:05:32,960 --> 02:05:38,080 » I would hope that county staff would notice if there are adjustments that can 1181 02:05:35,920 --> 02:05:42,560 be made that that could happen. With that, I'm going to close the public 1182 02:05:40,320 --> 02:05:49,320 portion of the meeting and I'm going to look for a resolution of councel. 1183 02:05:45,920 --> 02:05:49,320 Councelor White, 1184 02:05:50,639 --> 02:05:58,719 you're moving the recommendation. Okay. Second. Councelor Kelner. Discussion. 1185 02:05:56,560 --> 02:06:03,599 Councelor Dennis. Councelor Bar. >> Uh, thank you, Mayor Bradley. Um, 1186 02:06:01,119 --> 02:06:08,159 » I'll record the vote for the record. >> I Yeah. Uh, yes. You're going to record 1187 02:06:05,840 --> 02:06:11,040 the vote, sir? I just said that. >> Thank you. I'm sorry. It's a party 1188 02:06:09,520 --> 02:06:15,280 hearing uh sitting here in my living room. I should be sitting in council 1189 02:06:12,639 --> 02:06:20,880 right now. Anyhow, um I have had many many neighbors contact me uh over this 1190 02:06:18,000 --> 02:06:24,480 uh development. Uh they are scared because there are no legal commitments 1191 02:06:22,800 --> 02:06:28,080 to the neighbors regarding public safety, neighborhood stability, and 1192 02:06:26,400 --> 02:06:32,960 long-term commitment or community impacts of this development. I have been 1193 02:06:30,639 --> 02:06:38,480 told that even though this is not labeled supportive housing, there are no 1194 02:06:34,719 --> 02:06:43,520 assurances or eligible elig eligibility requirements other than financial. Given 1195 02:06:41,280 --> 02:06:48,960 the other situations we have in Sarnney regarding county h housing uh projects 1196 02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:53,599 and neighborhood trauma, these concerns are very very real to some neighbors. If 1197 02:06:51,599 --> 02:06:57,520 this were a traditional senior's housing development, my concerns would be 1198 02:06:55,119 --> 02:07:01,679 significantly different. Senior housing has a wellestablished record and serves 1199 02:06:59,440 --> 02:07:05,840 a clearly defined population. This is not what is being proposed here. This is 1200 02:07:03,840 --> 02:07:10,239 an affordable housing project with eligibility criteria that have never 1201 02:07:08,239 --> 02:07:15,679 ever been clearly explained to the surrounding community. Residents are 1202 02:07:12,719 --> 02:07:19,840 being asked to take place uh to place their trust in a process without being 1203 02:07:17,599 --> 02:07:23,040 provided the assurances they deserve. I have heard repeatedly from homeowners 1204 02:07:21,760 --> 02:07:27,199 who are worried about the future of their neighborhood. And I understand 1205 02:07:24,800 --> 02:07:31,920 why. Some neighbors have told me that people with severe drug addictions will 1206 02:07:29,199 --> 02:07:36,480 be living there. that even though that even though it is not labeled supportive 1207 02:07:33,920 --> 02:07:40,960 housing that no such eligibility criteria are in place to protect the 1208 02:07:38,560 --> 02:07:44,960 neighbors from the devastation in other parts of our city. We do not have to 1209 02:07:43,360 --> 02:07:48,159 look very far to find examples of neighborhoods in Sarna that have 1210 02:07:46,239 --> 02:07:52,719 experienced significant challenges after a county housing was introduced. The 1211 02:07:50,320 --> 02:07:56,320 reality is that many residents in Sarnia tell me their quality of life, sense of 1212 02:07:54,560 --> 02:08:01,040 security, and enjoyment of their properties have been negatively 1213 02:07:57,599 --> 02:08:05,520 affected. Those concerns simply uh cannot be dismissed. I see them as my I 1214 02:08:03,679 --> 02:08:09,920 see them with my own eyes. The people living in this area have invested 1215 02:08:07,920 --> 02:08:14,639 invested decades of hard work into their homes. For most, this their home is 1216 02:08:12,639 --> 02:08:18,639 their largest financial asset and the foundation of their retirement security. 1217 02:08:16,719 --> 02:08:23,199 They deserve more than vague assurances that everything will be fine. without 1218 02:08:20,800 --> 02:08:27,599 clear answers, without clear eligibility criteria, without a neighborhood 1219 02:08:24,880 --> 02:08:31,520 protection plan, without uh enforceable accountability measures if problems 1220 02:08:29,199 --> 02:08:36,079 arise. I am not prepared to support a proposal that could put another 1221 02:08:33,119 --> 02:08:39,840 established Sarnia neighborhood at risk. I said the same about the Inwell 1222 02:08:37,840 --> 02:08:44,079 location because once a neighborhood is destabilized, it is extraordinarily 1223 02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:47,440 difficult to reverse the damage. I am not prepared to ask the residents of 1224 02:08:45,840 --> 02:08:52,239 this community to accept that risk without clear and credible safeguards. 1225 02:08:49,760 --> 02:08:56,400 No neighborhood in any part of Sarnia at all should ever be subject to this 1226 02:08:54,000 --> 02:08:59,599 disruption and I will be voting no to save this Cathkart neighborhood as I 1227 02:08:58,320 --> 02:09:05,199 have consistently done with other neighborhoods in Sarnia. Thank you, 1228 02:09:01,280 --> 02:09:12,639 » Councelor Burl. Councelor Burl, please. >> Uh, yes. Thank you, your worship. Um, 1229 02:09:08,560 --> 02:09:17,679 I am going to be supporting this vote on the basis that I'm taking the word of 1230 02:09:15,440 --> 02:09:22,639 the county that this is not going to be a support of housing, which I think was 1231 02:09:20,560 --> 02:09:26,159 » Listen, I would just ask we've been being respectful to everyone that spoke 1232 02:09:24,639 --> 02:09:29,440 and I would ask you to be respectful to the views that are being espoused by the 1233 02:09:27,520 --> 02:09:36,159 council right now. the the um 1234 02:09:33,440 --> 02:09:40,560 county has given the assurances that I've heard anyways 1235 02:09:38,159 --> 02:09:47,679 that uh this will not be supportive housing. This will be primarily for 1236 02:09:42,560 --> 02:09:53,760 seniors but mostly the criteria will be based on income. 1237 02:09:50,639 --> 02:10:00,800 So on that basis and we certain we definitely need 1238 02:09:56,719 --> 02:10:07,199 housing in our community for people who with lower incomes. Uh it's 1239 02:10:04,320 --> 02:10:14,400 there are many people who are paying 20,000 a year for their apartments. So 1240 02:10:10,880 --> 02:10:20,400 ordinary people definitely cannot not carry that. So 1241 02:10:17,360 --> 02:10:25,280 um I will be supporting this. Okay, I've got Councelor White, Vandenberg, Gillis, 1242 02:10:23,119 --> 02:10:31,040 and McRoberts. >> Uh, thank you uh, your worship and, uh, 1243 02:10:28,400 --> 02:10:35,920 and again, just to extend a thanks to Mr. Folkins for continually reminding us 1244 02:10:33,840 --> 02:10:40,000 what we're actually voting on here. Realistically, if this were to be 1245 02:10:38,000 --> 02:10:43,920 defeated, the county would potentially have the right to build higher and put 1246 02:10:41,520 --> 02:10:48,159 commercial space on the main floor, too. Um, we're not voting as to whether or 1247 02:10:46,239 --> 02:10:53,199 not this is going to proceed. That's just the reality of the application 1248 02:10:49,920 --> 02:10:58,639 that's in front of us today. Um, all of that said, I think it's also important 1249 02:10:55,599 --> 02:11:04,560 to understand what the value is um that we're espousing as as a community and 1250 02:11:01,760 --> 02:11:10,320 that uh ensuring that we have adequate and safe places for everybody to live is 1251 02:11:07,599 --> 02:11:13,920 is top of mind. We're not talking about speculation here. We're talking about 1252 02:11:12,079 --> 02:11:18,400 real evidence that indicates that when people are afforded the dignity, and 1253 02:11:16,320 --> 02:11:23,920 we're talking about single bedroomedroom units here, uh, of having a safe place 1254 02:11:21,520 --> 02:11:27,840 to lay down at night, that their lives transform 1255 02:11:25,840 --> 02:11:32,320 for the net positive for everybody, themselves, everybody in their immediate 1256 02:11:30,880 --> 02:11:37,760 relations, and of course for the community at large. When folks have a 1257 02:11:34,960 --> 02:11:42,320 safe place to lay their head down and to store their personal belongings without 1258 02:11:39,920 --> 02:11:48,480 fear that they're going to be stolen, they transform in ways that many of us 1259 02:11:46,159 --> 02:11:53,920 will never have to truly understand. And and I'm grateful for that privilege that 1260 02:11:52,159 --> 02:11:57,679 we don't have to make a choice whether or not we're eating or taking 1261 02:11:55,440 --> 02:12:02,560 medications that we need. We don't have a choice uh as to whether or not we 1262 02:11:59,920 --> 02:12:07,599 should consider going back to uh an abusive partner because we can't afford 1263 02:12:04,560 --> 02:12:12,239 to live uh on our own in a safe environment 1264 02:12:09,280 --> 02:12:17,119 uh or take uh a couch somewhere in a unit that is far too expensive for any 1265 02:12:14,400 --> 02:12:22,159 single person to live in at their income level uh and find themselves in a 1266 02:12:19,440 --> 02:12:27,679 situation where they are vulnerable for many reasons that I don't need to uh go 1267 02:12:24,960 --> 02:12:31,679 into detail here. Let your imagination do its thing. 1268 02:12:29,920 --> 02:12:35,440 Realistically, our community should be open to 1269 02:12:33,360 --> 02:12:42,079 everybody. And we've got a brilliant opportunity here for people to walk to 1270 02:12:38,800 --> 02:12:46,239 our most treasured parks or to use bikes in our bike lanes to go to our most 1271 02:12:43,760 --> 02:12:53,520 treasured parks not even uh a kilometer away to provide access to uh businesses 1272 02:12:50,079 --> 02:12:59,440 in the neighborhood to new clientele, new customers, right? as they get as 1273 02:12:56,480 --> 02:13:04,320 they as they are suddenly able to spend more money because they're not blowing 1274 02:13:00,880 --> 02:13:08,560 all their cash on an unaffordable unit somewhere perhaps with a landlord who 1275 02:13:06,719 --> 02:13:15,199 doesn't consider their quality of life as the top of mind but rather continual 1276 02:13:11,280 --> 02:13:20,320 rent increases. Having people with more disposable income such that it may be 1277 02:13:17,760 --> 02:13:25,840 can be a significant bo to people who run businesses in the area and it's been 1278 02:13:22,719 --> 02:13:33,520 demonstrated to be so. So, I'm not going to uh allow false um images of what may 1279 02:13:31,520 --> 02:13:39,440 be in the hypothetical here when I know the evidence indicates otherwise. The 1280 02:13:36,079 --> 02:13:42,239 county run stellar properties by and large and they've done a significant 1281 02:13:40,880 --> 02:13:46,719 amount of work over the last number of years to restore the ones that have been 1282 02:13:44,480 --> 02:13:51,280 damaged. Are there unfortunate realities that go with that? Absolutely. and look 1283 02:13:48,560 --> 02:13:56,079 to any private uh privately owned property where they've subdivided either 1284 02:13:53,840 --> 02:14:00,719 a house into multiple units inside illegally or otherwise or any privately 1285 02:13:58,719 --> 02:14:04,239 owned apartment building and ask what their vetting process is as well for 1286 02:14:02,880 --> 02:14:09,119 people to live in there whether they're living on a couch or whether they're 1287 02:14:06,800 --> 02:14:14,079 actually the lease holder. It's unfair to paint people, you know, 1288 02:14:11,760 --> 02:14:17,679 with this negative connotation without giving them the opportunity to thrive. 1289 02:14:16,159 --> 02:14:22,480 And part of what we're doing here today is ensuring that people have safety and 1290 02:14:20,239 --> 02:14:25,760 that's all people. >> I've got councelor Vandenberg, councelor 1291 02:14:24,320 --> 02:14:28,400 Gillis, councelor McRoberts, and then I'll call the question and record the 1292 02:14:27,760 --> 02:14:30,639 vote. >> Sorry. Go ahead. 1293 02:14:29,040 --> 02:14:35,440 » Thank you, your worship. My my concern here today and the lady, the first 1294 02:14:32,719 --> 02:14:40,320 speaker talked about it. Um, criminal activity. Um, how come we didn't get 1295 02:14:37,520 --> 02:14:43,599 anything from the county on on the projects that they have that are 1296 02:14:41,520 --> 02:14:47,520 underway right now or or that people are living in on criminal activity in those 1297 02:14:45,440 --> 02:14:51,520 neighborhoods? Um, is there reports on that? Is there criminal activity even 1298 02:14:49,199 --> 02:14:57,360 even occurring? So, I I think it would have been important, you know, to bring 1299 02:14:53,360 --> 02:15:00,639 that material to us to uh understand that this might occur in their 1300 02:14:58,719 --> 02:15:03,440 neighborhood. I don't know. But like I don't know what the criminal activity is 1301 02:15:01,760 --> 02:15:07,360 around Jubilee Gardens or the other places and I just wish somebody had 1302 02:15:05,280 --> 02:15:11,440 brought that to us today. So >> thank you. I've got councelor Gillis, 1303 02:15:08,800 --> 02:15:14,320 councelor Mc Roberts, councelor Kner and you'll have the last word and then I'll 1304 02:15:12,639 --> 02:15:18,480 call the question record the vote. >> Uh thank you worship. I'm looking at it 1305 02:15:16,159 --> 02:15:24,400 from a planning perspective. I do understand that uh if we do not approve 1306 02:15:21,360 --> 02:15:29,360 this, it opens the door for a larger building to be on on site if I 1307 02:15:27,199 --> 02:15:35,199 interpreted that right. Is that correct? Where did Jordan go? Is that correct? 1308 02:15:32,480 --> 02:15:40,800 Um, but one of the problems I do have is I think even this is an overbuild on 1309 02:15:37,199 --> 02:15:44,719 this site. And I'm um I'm worried as well with the Mance that's right beside 1310 02:15:42,880 --> 02:15:50,000 it and what that will turn into on that site. I'm not 100% sure that this is a 1311 02:15:48,000 --> 02:15:53,760 county building. I don't believe it is. I think it's an an indwell run building 1312 02:15:51,840 --> 02:16:00,079 if I'm correct. It isn't. It's specifically county 1313 02:15:58,000 --> 02:16:06,880 that gives me a certain level of uh comfort again with the um what was what 1314 02:16:04,800 --> 02:16:11,360 would be the um 1315 02:16:08,560 --> 02:16:15,599 great evangelism and various um onward activity happening around the area 1316 02:16:13,280 --> 02:16:19,920 currently. Um as a member of the police services board I would say from the 1317 02:16:18,000 --> 02:16:27,760 information that I've gotten uh it's rather benign. it isn't as uh difficult 1318 02:16:23,760 --> 02:16:33,840 as other areas um that have um a large conglomerate or clusters of people. 1319 02:16:30,960 --> 02:16:38,160 I am concerned however from the setback. I'm really concerned about the setback 1320 02:16:35,519 --> 02:16:44,399 and how it's going to impact on the community as well. And I I wanted to 1321 02:16:40,479 --> 02:16:49,599 thank Roy Pard for um sending us a message 1322 02:16:46,080 --> 02:16:56,319 where he is in support of um the actual build, but he is he's talking about 1323 02:16:53,280 --> 02:17:02,399 what's there now. And I can attest to that because I go by the uh Cathcart on 1324 02:16:59,439 --> 02:17:06,160 my way to to mass every Sunday. One of the things that I've noticed as well is 1325 02:17:04,080 --> 02:17:12,399 the fact that there's no sidewalks. the sidewalks are not on the um north side 1326 02:17:10,000 --> 02:17:18,080 of Cathkart, they're on the south side of Cathkart and there's no sidewalks at 1327 02:17:14,479 --> 02:17:21,840 all. And that in itself gives a false security in one way but takes away the 1328 02:17:20,000 --> 02:17:26,399 ability to walk down the street on the other. And for senior citizens 1329 02:17:24,319 --> 02:17:32,319 particularly walking on the north side, and this has to do with us, nobody else 1330 02:17:29,120 --> 02:17:35,679 on the north side of Cathkart, you can't walk on the north side of Cathkart. how 1331 02:17:34,240 --> 02:17:40,479 people usually end up walking on the street. So for that, I think there's a 1332 02:17:38,319 --> 02:17:46,160 definite upgrades that that we need to do as this all comes together to to 1333 02:17:44,160 --> 02:17:50,319 ensure that it is a walkable neighborhood and a safe neighborhood and 1334 02:17:48,800 --> 02:17:54,719 particularly when you've got the um businesses in that location as well and 1335 02:17:52,559 --> 02:17:59,760 you've got the bus stop right there. So there are problems with it already and 1336 02:17:57,439 --> 02:18:03,599 my concern is when I see more people coming into that area, it's going to be 1337 02:18:01,280 --> 02:18:08,479 10 times worse. So, I think there's a role for the city to play in this. Even 1338 02:18:05,679 --> 02:18:13,120 though we've been largely um as a city councelor not involved in any of this, I 1339 02:18:11,519 --> 02:18:20,160 think that the city has to take some ownership with its infrastructure 1340 02:18:16,160 --> 02:18:23,280 when this goes in or if it goes in. You have to have someplace for people to 1341 02:18:21,840 --> 02:18:28,160 walk. You have to have someplace for people to ride their bikes. You have to 1342 02:18:25,760 --> 02:18:32,319 have a decent um transit system that will accommodate the number of people 1343 02:18:29,519 --> 02:18:38,000 that you have coming in here. And that's pivotally important to the success of 1344 02:18:35,439 --> 02:18:41,840 this building. The other thing I think is pivotally important is the setbacks. 1345 02:18:40,319 --> 02:18:46,080 And I would argue with you and I do recall uh Jordan when you were working 1346 02:18:44,000 --> 02:18:49,080 for the city you were very very >> distinct 1347 02:18:50,639 --> 02:18:59,120 about the shadows of the building the um many many things that that would impede 1348 02:18:56,559 --> 02:19:03,760 on the success of the community around with regard to the the height of the 1349 02:19:00,800 --> 02:19:09,840 buildings and he's not wrong in that at all. Having said that though and 1350 02:19:06,479 --> 02:19:16,000 realizing that there have been many many concessions made since I've attended 1351 02:19:12,880 --> 02:19:19,920 Sacred Heart um the community meeting with regard to the height of the 1352 02:19:17,200 --> 02:19:24,160 building that's definitive uh with the fact that it's being 1353 02:19:21,519 --> 02:19:31,599 declared as a geared to income that's definitive and the fact that it's owned 1354 02:19:26,559 --> 02:19:35,599 by and operated by correct by the county that in itself is definitive. So I will 1355 02:19:34,240 --> 02:19:39,679 be supporting this. >> I've got councelor Mc Roberts and 1356 02:19:37,280 --> 02:19:44,399 councelor Kner and then the question. >> Thank you through the chair. I've 1357 02:19:41,359 --> 02:19:48,800 mentioned this out at the county before. Most folks that are having issues with 1358 02:19:46,880 --> 02:19:54,960 funds or need to be on any type of social enterprise tend to come to Sarnia 1359 02:19:51,600 --> 02:20:00,240 for help and now we're housing them. It's a small amount of people, but my 1360 02:19:57,920 --> 02:20:04,319 question would be again, why are we not sourcing spots out in the county, 1361 02:20:02,240 --> 02:20:08,720 specifically Wyoming, when we've got the county building right there and we could 1362 02:20:05,920 --> 02:20:12,960 have some type of social service outlet there for them. There's a community 1363 02:20:10,800 --> 02:20:16,960 there, there's shopping, there's church, there's everything that they could need 1364 02:20:14,720 --> 02:20:21,600 except coming all the way back to Sarnia. So, those that could be out 1365 02:20:19,359 --> 02:20:25,600 there, that's number one question. Second would be, and I've said this in 1366 02:20:23,120 --> 02:20:29,920 council before, there have been all our homes didn't 1367 02:20:27,680 --> 02:20:34,880 just start there in Sarnia. There was some neighbor, some business, somebody 1368 02:20:32,319 --> 02:20:38,000 near you that didn't want your build to go there. 1369 02:20:35,760 --> 02:20:41,040 » They Roberts to the chair. That way you keep the 1370 02:20:39,680 --> 02:20:42,560 relationship better with >> my fault. 1371 02:20:41,520 --> 02:20:50,319 » Right. >> We can't pick our own neighbors. 1372 02:20:46,240 --> 02:20:55,600 And here we are. I work with people, lift them up, give them an opportunity. 1373 02:20:53,040 --> 02:21:02,000 But the county, we have got to make sure that our buildings are looked after 1374 02:20:59,120 --> 02:21:06,560 for the neighborhood and that has been falling to the wayside. The drop in 1375 02:21:03,840 --> 02:21:11,040 centers and all of the sites, we have to do better than we are. Most buildings 1376 02:21:08,880 --> 02:21:16,240 have some form of security or a manager on site that if there is an issue, it 1377 02:21:13,280 --> 02:21:20,800 can be handled immediately and we are not doing that. So, let's not save that 1378 02:21:18,880 --> 02:21:23,040 buck and make sure that it's looked after. Thank you. 1379 02:21:21,920 --> 02:21:28,640 » Councelor Con, you have the last word and then we I'll call the question. 1380 02:21:25,120 --> 02:21:35,280 » Thank you, Mayor Bradley. Um, one of the things that I think through a number of 1381 02:21:31,680 --> 02:21:41,200 these discussions that has come up and it's it's hard for me to discern 1382 02:21:38,479 --> 02:21:45,840 um anything other than um 1383 02:21:43,520 --> 02:21:52,319 we repeatedly come across people who feel like the consultation periods are 1384 02:21:49,200 --> 02:21:58,560 either not adequate or too quick. Um I don't know how we remedy that moving 1385 02:21:54,240 --> 02:22:04,720 forward. Um the other parts uh to this conversation 1386 02:22:00,560 --> 02:22:10,479 uh that have me thinking are some of the stuff that we've discussed before uh 1387 02:22:08,000 --> 02:22:19,760 repeatedly. There's these are easily Google Google facts um about 1388 02:22:16,640 --> 02:22:25,520 will property values go down. um the surveys we have in this country um uh 1389 02:22:22,720 --> 02:22:30,960 you know have re repeated observations that that's not something that happens 1390 02:22:28,160 --> 02:22:36,240 traffic will increase uh not necessarily we've had the discussion about parking 1391 02:22:33,359 --> 02:22:42,000 uh and we've heard the 36 number from county staff I think it was.36 1392 02:22:39,600 --> 02:22:44,640 I'm not allowed to look at them um I'm supposed 1393 02:22:42,319 --> 02:22:47,359 » not that I'm trying to keep that um >> relationship [laughter] with the council 1394 02:22:46,240 --> 02:22:53,359 and with the audience >> yeah yeah the strain on public services. 1395 02:22:50,479 --> 02:23:00,800 Um the location to me in terms of walkability does seem uh you know writes 1396 02:22:57,280 --> 02:23:08,640 family value mart and and and such being close by um or it's not rights anymore 1397 02:23:05,120 --> 02:23:12,800 but anywh who um and lastly 1398 02:23:10,560 --> 02:23:16,800 uh new residents won't fit into the neighborhood. uh that that remains to be 1399 02:23:15,600 --> 02:23:22,240 seen because we don't know who the neighbors are and I tend to work on the 1400 02:23:20,080 --> 02:23:25,359 Mr. Rogers, won't you please? Won't you please? Please, won't you be my 1401 02:23:23,359 --> 02:23:29,280 neighbor? Affordable housing won't fit the character of the neighborhood. 1402 02:23:26,960 --> 02:23:35,200 That's I think something that we do. I I think I I am discerning what um 1403 02:23:31,840 --> 02:23:39,520 councelor uh Gillis has said about that uh in terms of the setbacks, but I think 1404 02:23:37,280 --> 02:23:45,200 that's also a process that can emerge if if um we're honest and truthful with 1405 02:23:42,479 --> 02:23:51,600 each other moving forward in the design and the plan. Uh crime will increase, so 1406 02:23:48,000 --> 02:23:55,840 on and so forth. I I I just always do struggle 1407 02:23:53,840 --> 02:24:02,240 um in here. And I also want to give kudos to um M. Ms. Willis for at least 1408 02:23:59,920 --> 02:24:10,880 surveying the neighborhood. Uh thank you for doing that. Uh at the same point, um 1409 02:24:06,720 --> 02:24:13,040 uh you know, um from my perspective, I I think we need to move forward with this. 1410 02:24:12,560 --> 02:24:17,600 Thank you. >> Thank you. I'll call the question and 1411 02:24:14,399 --> 02:24:21,520 record the vote. Those in favor of the uh proposed resolution which is to move 1412 02:24:19,920 --> 02:24:26,560 forward on this project. Those in fi favor councelor Gillis Vanderberg White 1413 02:24:25,040 --> 02:24:31,920 Bushie Ker McRoberts Burl and myself. Those 1414 02:24:29,920 --> 02:24:35,359 opposed. Councelor Dennis and that passes. We have two more delegations if 1415 02:24:34,000 --> 02:24:38,680 they're ready to come forward now to talk about renovations. 1416 02:24:39,920 --> 02:24:44,680 Mr. Quan, would you like to come forward please? And 1417 02:24:45,200 --> 02:24:51,359 Good afternoon, m uh Mayor Bradley and council. I'm the first delegate, but I 1418 02:24:49,600 --> 02:24:56,640 humbly request that the sec second delegate proceed first. Mr. Bolter can 1419 02:24:53,920 --> 02:24:59,760 provide the local context uh for council and its deliberation of the rental 1420 02:24:57,920 --> 02:25:04,560 renovation bylaw and certainly I can provide the provincial context which is 1421 02:25:02,240 --> 02:25:08,880 what we're my organization is more attuned to. Yeah, with all respect we we 1422 02:25:06,960 --> 02:25:13,280 don't I don't allow that as chair like we we whoever's in the batting order 1423 02:25:10,640 --> 02:25:17,120 bats and we we'll be able to raise any questions directly with Mr. Bolter. So 1424 02:25:15,280 --> 02:25:20,960 with all respect that's what we do here because everyone wants to go last. 1425 02:25:20,080 --> 02:25:24,319 » I'm sorry. >> Everyone wants to go last. 1426 02:25:21,920 --> 02:25:25,600 » I see. Fair enough. Fair enough. >> Okay. 1427 02:25:24,640 --> 02:25:29,439 » Please go ahead. >> Thank you very much. Uh my name is 1428 02:25:27,840 --> 02:25:34,160 Douglas Quan, the director of advocacy and legal services at the Advocacy 1429 02:25:31,200 --> 02:25:37,280 Center for Tent Ontario. We uh we are community legal clinic located in 1430 02:25:35,439 --> 02:25:42,000 Toronto with the provincial mandate to advance tenants rights. We also operate 1431 02:25:39,840 --> 02:25:45,760 the uh the tan duty council program that provides services for 20,000 1432 02:25:44,080 --> 02:25:50,000 self-represented tenants of the landlord tent board each and every year. Next 1433 02:25:47,680 --> 02:25:54,880 slide please. And next slide please. 1434 02:25:52,880 --> 02:25:59,760 So I'm here to just to report to council on the success of the renovation bylaws 1435 02:25:56,720 --> 02:26:05,600 in Ontario. Next slide. Hamilton was the f uh so it uh to give 1436 02:26:03,200 --> 02:26:10,160 you some context all municipal bylaws have certain specific features. The 1437 02:26:07,760 --> 02:26:14,000 renovation bylaws have a licensing process. They have ongoing obligations 1438 02:26:12,479 --> 02:26:18,000 from the landlord throughout the life of the license. Usually the municipality 1439 02:26:16,160 --> 02:26:21,520 requires a third party report that determines vacant possession is 1440 02:26:19,439 --> 02:26:26,080 necessary for repair or renovation. There's also an education component for 1441 02:26:23,359 --> 02:26:30,240 landlords and tenants after the N13 is served. Um, there are also significant 1442 02:26:28,319 --> 02:26:34,319 fines applied to landlords circumventing the bylaw. Some bylaws required 1443 02:26:32,479 --> 02:26:37,439 landlords to pay rent gap payments, which is the difference between what 1444 02:26:35,520 --> 02:26:42,080 they're paying in rent in the former unit and what they're paying in the 1445 02:26:38,800 --> 02:26:45,680 market, and moving expenses. Some bylaws also include a tenant support fund or 1446 02:26:43,840 --> 02:26:49,200 office. And some municipalities have added an additional fine if the landlord 1447 02:26:47,359 --> 02:26:54,080 receives a significant economic advantage as a result of the renovation. 1448 02:26:51,280 --> 02:26:59,760 So, picture you renovate 300 units in your particular building. There's that's 1449 02:26:55,439 --> 02:27:04,000 quite a windfall. Next slide, please. So, Hamilton's uh the first municipal 1450 02:27:02,240 --> 02:27:08,960 off the bat to reports its first year success. They found that they there was 1451 02:27:06,399 --> 02:27:14,240 an 80% drop in the number of renovation applications at the landlord tenant 1452 02:27:10,560 --> 02:27:18,479 board. They also uh found that uh through their personal through their 1453 02:27:16,240 --> 02:27:23,200 bylaw, it is a tenant compensation component in there that helped dissuade 1454 02:27:21,359 --> 02:27:27,200 landlords from sitting on their hands from performing the actual repairs or 1455 02:27:24,720 --> 02:27:32,479 renovations after the license has been uh um obtained. 1456 02:27:29,680 --> 02:27:36,479 uh as well. Uh after reviewing the first year success of their bylaw, they 1457 02:27:34,720 --> 02:27:40,880 recommended the staff recommended that moving expenses should be added. Uh 1458 02:27:38,960 --> 02:27:44,319 throughout the life of that bylaw for the first year, landlords continue to 1459 02:27:42,720 --> 02:27:49,280 perform necessary repairs and renovations on their particular units. 1460 02:27:46,560 --> 02:27:55,120 Next slide. The city of London uh passed their bylaw 1461 02:27:52,160 --> 02:28:00,080 uh in March of last year. uh their bylaw did not have a tenant compensation focus 1462 02:27:57,280 --> 02:28:06,240 but nevertheless they also saw a similar uh success of over 65% drop in the 1463 02:28:03,040 --> 02:28:11,600 number of renovations um uh that took place in London. 1464 02:28:08,160 --> 02:28:15,040 The bylaw also allowed again landlords to continue with their repairs and 1465 02:28:13,040 --> 02:28:20,479 renovations that were necessary for their units. [snorts] And next slide 1466 02:28:17,280 --> 02:28:25,680 please. We're still waiting on Toronto's results. Their renovation bylaw was 1467 02:28:22,880 --> 02:28:29,200 passed in July of last year that their bylaw includes a rent gap payment, 1468 02:28:27,680 --> 02:28:34,000 moving expenses for the tenant, and an extraordinary profit fine. Uh legal 1469 02:28:32,319 --> 02:28:39,520 clinics have already reported ever since the implementation of the bylaw that uh 1470 02:28:37,280 --> 02:28:43,680 organizations that support tenants uh and established residents, they found a 1471 02:28:41,520 --> 02:28:49,040 dramatic drop in the number of inquiries with respect to renovations, renovations 1472 02:28:46,160 --> 02:28:53,120 I should say. Uh and again throughout uh the entire time landlords have been able 1473 02:28:51,520 --> 02:29:00,160 to make necessary repairs and renovations to their units. Next slide. 1474 02:28:58,319 --> 02:29:05,040 These are the other municipalities that are looking into u implementing or 1475 02:29:02,720 --> 02:29:09,439 already have implemented their bylaws. Missaga passed their bylaw in April to 1476 02:29:07,359 --> 02:29:14,160 start in September 1st. It includes a rent cap payment and moving expenses. 1477 02:29:11,600 --> 02:29:18,720 Waterloo passed their bylaw to uh this earlier uh this year with a 2027 1478 02:29:17,040 --> 02:29:23,760 implementation. Again, a rent gap payment and moving expenses. Smith Falls 1479 02:29:21,120 --> 02:29:30,880 has a draft bylaw that also includes a rent gap compensation. G uh two weeks 1480 02:29:27,520 --> 02:29:36,399 ago passed their uh rent eviction bylaw to begin on October 2026. And Chad Kent 1481 02:29:34,319 --> 02:29:41,040 tonight will be passing hopefully their bylaw which also includes a rent gap 1482 02:29:38,399 --> 02:29:46,240 payment and moving expenses. Next slide. 1483 02:29:44,080 --> 02:29:51,120 Uh so there's been a lot have been said about the province. Uh why doesn't the 1484 02:29:49,040 --> 02:29:55,760 province step in? Don't they already protect tenants? Uh they province passed 1485 02:29:53,680 --> 02:30:02,960 a legislation called bill 97 three and a half years ago that was um introduced to 1486 02:30:00,479 --> 02:30:06,720 address the increasing scourge of renovations in Ontario. However, we've 1487 02:30:05,359 --> 02:30:12,160 been waiting for three and a half years for its implementation. Next slide, 1488 02:30:09,520 --> 02:30:12,160 please. 1489 02:30:12,240 --> 02:30:19,680 And so we've heard that this summer there some of the pieces of bill 97 will 1490 02:30:16,640 --> 02:30:24,640 go online. The pieces that will uh be enforced are uh provisions that protect 1491 02:30:23,120 --> 02:30:28,319 hands after they've already been renovicted, which means they have to 1492 02:30:26,479 --> 02:30:34,000 pursue their remedy at the landlord's hand board um afterwards. 1493 02:30:31,600 --> 02:30:38,960 Next slide, please. A key component of what's not been 1494 02:30:35,760 --> 02:30:44,399 enforced in Bill 97 is the requirement for a specialized report from uh an 1495 02:30:42,000 --> 02:30:48,160 architect or an engineer or a third party that identifies the requirement 1496 02:30:46,240 --> 02:30:53,040 that vacant possession is necessary for the unit. That important piece uh that 1497 02:30:51,520 --> 02:30:56,479 could dissuade rent evictions from happening in the first place has not 1498 02:30:54,720 --> 02:30:59,720 been enforced. Next slide. 1499 02:30:59,840 --> 02:31:08,960 And that is why as an organization uh we want to recommend to this council that 1500 02:31:06,000 --> 02:31:12,720 renovation bylaws are still necessary for several reasons. As I said earlier, 1501 02:31:10,720 --> 02:31:19,040 bill 97 only helps tenants after they've been renovicted. The increase in fines 1502 02:31:15,600 --> 02:31:24,319 in bill 97 only only occur when the ministry steps in and issues those fines 1503 02:31:21,840 --> 02:31:29,359 is not instituted on behalf of any litigation uh initiated by the tenant 1504 02:31:26,800 --> 02:31:32,560 themselves. as well. We all know the delays of the landlord tamp board which 1505 02:31:31,040 --> 02:31:37,200 frustrates all the parties who are trying to seek redress at the board and 1506 02:31:35,120 --> 02:31:41,680 on those orders where the landlord tampboard has issued orders against bad 1507 02:31:39,280 --> 02:31:48,240 faith landlords. About 13 from 2020 to 2023, um only four of those 13 orders 1508 02:31:45,280 --> 02:31:52,319 have been paid back in full. And all 13 of those orders issued fines of less 1509 02:31:50,399 --> 02:31:58,640 than $10,000 which can be easily recouped from the next tenant uh that 1510 02:31:55,040 --> 02:32:03,200 the landlord charges the new rent to. Comparably, look at the municipal 1511 02:32:00,160 --> 02:32:06,640 bylaws. They what they do is they are preventive measure. They're like the 1512 02:32:04,560 --> 02:32:11,280 smoke alarms to prevent the fires from happening in the first place. They offer 1513 02:32:08,720 --> 02:32:15,280 a tenant compensation because they prevent landlords from sitting on their 1514 02:32:12,880 --> 02:32:20,640 hands waiting for 8 months to a year to replace that kitchen faucet. Um they 1515 02:32:18,240 --> 02:32:26,720 also protect a your existing affordable housing stock. And as you can see, a 1516 02:32:22,960 --> 02:32:32,240 recent study of um of rents uh looks at how older buildings uh older than 2020 1517 02:32:29,439 --> 02:32:36,399 are highly soughta in in the sense that rents are going up 1518 02:32:34,160 --> 02:32:40,479 by far three times higher than newer units because of the fact that they're 1519 02:32:38,240 --> 02:32:44,319 larger units. They're rent controlled. Um and it also helps protect your 1520 02:32:42,479 --> 02:32:49,960 established residents who are often vulnerable from being displaced. Next 1521 02:32:46,960 --> 02:32:49,960 slide. 1522 02:32:50,399 --> 02:32:53,960 Next slide, please. 1523 02:32:54,479 --> 02:33:01,120 So, I'm here to support staff's recommendation for the bylaw with two 1524 02:32:58,880 --> 02:33:06,479 comments. Specifically, we're seeking council's recommendation 1525 02:33:03,920 --> 02:33:12,399 support to suggest to staff a tenant compensation component be included in a 1526 02:33:09,359 --> 02:33:16,560 renovation bylaw. As I said earlier, a tenant compensation component will 1527 02:33:14,319 --> 02:33:21,359 prevent a landlord from just sitting on their hands and not doing the necessary 1528 02:33:18,000 --> 02:33:24,960 repairs when uh when they have to. Uh it would follow in line with other 1529 02:33:22,720 --> 02:33:29,920 municipalities such as Missaga, Toronto, Hamilton, Smith Falls, and Chattam Kent. 1530 02:33:27,680 --> 02:33:33,680 And the second piece is in the staff report, it suggests an administrative 1531 02:33:31,600 --> 02:33:38,479 monetary penalty system to be applied for those landlords uh who are behaving 1532 02:33:36,080 --> 02:33:43,920 badly and wish to circumvent the bylaw. It's an unusual suggestion because when 1533 02:33:40,880 --> 02:33:48,319 you look at other bylaws, they look they utilize the existing laws which is under 1534 02:33:45,760 --> 02:33:52,240 the municipal act section 425 which already allows penalties of up to 1535 02:33:50,240 --> 02:33:58,240 $10,000 for individuals and up to $50,000 for corporations. Such examples 1536 02:33:55,439 --> 02:34:02,399 in G and Smith Falls and Champ, they use the existing uh uh laws and and and 1537 02:34:01,040 --> 02:34:09,520 remedies that are available to municipalities. So these existing fines 1538 02:34:05,840 --> 02:34:15,040 and offenses um you see them in play uh as you know in situations where someone 1539 02:34:12,319 --> 02:34:18,640 doesn't cut the grass properly or or or they they leave all their garbage on the 1540 02:34:16,720 --> 02:34:23,200 wrong day. Uh these are just standard fines that are contained within the 1541 02:34:20,319 --> 02:34:28,319 municipal act and can be utilized uh uh in the service of this renovation or 1542 02:34:25,439 --> 02:34:33,040 this rental uh uh rental and repair and renovation bylaw. Uh, thank you for your 1543 02:34:31,120 --> 02:34:35,280 time and I'm open to any questions you might have. 1544 02:34:33,520 --> 02:34:37,840 » Are there any questions? >> I'm not seeing but thank you again for 1545 02:34:37,200 --> 02:34:41,560 the presentation. >> Thank you, 1546 02:34:38,240 --> 02:34:41,560 » Mr. Boulder. 1547 02:34:48,560 --> 02:34:55,520 » Mayor and Council Andrew Bolter. I work as the executive director of community 1548 02:34:52,880 --> 02:35:01,280 legal assistance funded by legal aid Ontario and we have 1549 02:34:58,560 --> 02:35:05,520 a mandate in the whole county. Uh a bulk of our clients however come from Sarnia 1550 02:35:03,120 --> 02:35:12,000 for obvious reasons. Population density here. Um I'm going to 1551 02:35:08,720 --> 02:35:18,000 talk about what's happening locally. Um what we're seeing locally is that aging 1552 02:35:14,640 --> 02:35:24,479 buildings are being purchased by investors, out of town investors, out of 1553 02:35:20,640 --> 02:35:30,640 town companies. Um and they are purchasing these properties. They are 1554 02:35:27,439 --> 02:35:36,240 then doing an assessment of the property and they're making the suggestion or the 1555 02:35:34,319 --> 02:35:42,720 claim that the entire building needs to be empty for them to do the necessary. 1556 02:35:40,000 --> 02:35:47,280 Um tenants we're finding are either asked to leave 1557 02:35:45,120 --> 02:35:51,760 uh encouraged to leave with what we call cash for keys, sometimes offered up to 1558 02:35:50,240 --> 02:35:58,080 $5,000 to leave and not go through the N13 1559 02:35:54,880 --> 02:36:03,840 process. Now the N13 pro process is a document that basically tells the tenant 1560 02:36:01,120 --> 02:36:10,240 that uh you need to move out. You normally get a month's rent and um 1561 02:36:08,800 --> 02:36:15,120 it's a process that goes through the landlord tenant board. 1562 02:36:12,720 --> 02:36:20,000 Um there's a lot of tensions. I mean nobody's saying to a landlord, you can't 1563 02:36:18,160 --> 02:36:25,280 repair a building, you can't maintain a building. 1564 02:36:21,600 --> 02:36:29,359 What's happening is that for instance, I I'll give you some for 1565 02:36:26,880 --> 02:36:34,640 instance, Village Green on Xmouth Street. 1566 02:36:31,200 --> 02:36:40,399 But um what happened there? Uh tenants were given eviction notices tied to 1567 02:36:38,160 --> 02:36:46,240 planned renovations. The landlord offered some of them $5,000 1568 02:36:44,240 --> 02:36:50,000 early. And think to yourself, if you're in a rental unit, fixed income, low 1569 02:36:48,640 --> 02:36:54,800 income, a lot of seniors have been there, live there, been there 30 plus 1570 02:36:52,720 --> 02:37:00,080 years, these are their homes, and they're served a notice or they're off 1571 02:36:56,720 --> 02:37:03,439 at $5,000 to leave. Some will take it because they're 1572 02:37:02,080 --> 02:37:10,080 scared. they don't understand their rights and some will 1573 02:37:06,960 --> 02:37:15,359 just freeze or some people will call the legal clinic and we say no you you you 1574 02:37:12,640 --> 02:37:21,520 don't leave based on the notice. So what happened at village green was um the 1575 02:37:18,479 --> 02:37:25,520 long-term tenant tenants felt pressured to leave. So we organized a tenants 1576 02:37:23,439 --> 02:37:30,960 group or we didn't organize it there are advocates on the ground who did that 1577 02:37:27,120 --> 02:37:34,319 which is amazing. Um what happened there is the landlord was claiming 1578 02:37:33,068 --> 02:37:39,680 [clears throat] that the whole building needed to be empty because there was 1579 02:37:36,800 --> 02:37:43,439 asbestous in the building. No evidence of that. In fact, a follow-up has shown 1580 02:37:42,000 --> 02:37:47,920 that there's no asbestous in the building. That would be a safety 1581 02:37:44,479 --> 02:37:55,000 concern. This company, this particular company that is doing this has done this 1582 02:37:50,160 --> 02:37:55,000 in other parts of the province. 1583 02:37:55,200 --> 02:38:02,080 They're doing exactly the same letter. In fact, they forgot to take the address 1584 02:37:59,520 --> 02:38:07,439 off one of them and it was through residents. This is a unfortunately there 1585 02:38:05,600 --> 02:38:12,000 are many good landlords out there who follow the rules. 1586 02:38:09,760 --> 02:38:18,240 A pattern we're seeing with other landlords across the province. Um, 1587 02:38:15,760 --> 02:38:22,479 wrenchly branchly that is another building that was emptied because of 1588 02:38:19,760 --> 02:38:28,240 major renovations. Now in that case the renovations were necessary and and the 1589 02:38:25,840 --> 02:38:33,680 tenants were required to move out for various safety reasons and they did but 1590 02:38:31,359 --> 02:38:37,840 what's happened there is delay after delay after delay. And what happens when 1591 02:38:36,160 --> 02:38:44,000 tenants move out is they have to make other arrangements. They either rerent 1592 02:38:40,800 --> 02:38:49,600 or they sometimes leave town. We had one family actually from Earl's Court that 1593 02:38:47,600 --> 02:38:54,000 had to abandon all their belongings and move back to Alberta so the guy could 1594 02:38:51,680 --> 02:38:59,040 live with his dad with his wife and new kid because he could not afford any 1595 02:38:56,720 --> 02:39:02,960 other way of living. Um 1596 02:39:00,880 --> 02:39:10,000 so the branch it's just delay delay delay. Um and there's no teeth there's 1597 02:39:07,280 --> 02:39:15,040 no teeth make the landlord move quicker and that's a problem. And the longer the 1598 02:39:12,000 --> 02:39:20,720 landlord waits, the more the existing tenants who do have a right to return at 1599 02:39:17,760 --> 02:39:23,920 the same rent disappear. They go away. They've made other arrangements. Their 1600 02:39:22,080 --> 02:39:28,800 kids might be in other schools. Other things happen in life. So the longer the 1601 02:39:26,399 --> 02:39:33,280 the delay, the better it is for the landlord and the more profit that 1602 02:39:30,800 --> 02:39:37,359 particular out of town corporation can make on our most usually most vulnerable 1603 02:39:35,840 --> 02:39:43,200 citizens. These old buildings have rent controls 1604 02:39:39,840 --> 02:39:48,479 and the rents are relatively low. You know, some of the bu some of the rents 1605 02:39:44,880 --> 02:39:53,439 in um Earl's Court was actually $700. Now they're renting between $1,500 and 1606 02:39:50,960 --> 02:39:58,080 $1,700. Um 1607 02:39:55,359 --> 02:40:02,880 we've had a number of situations where seniors are struggling on their fixed 1608 02:40:01,120 --> 02:40:09,040 pensions. Like I said before, it's the fear they 1609 02:40:07,040 --> 02:40:14,720 think the landlords have control. People think the landlords have the power and 1610 02:40:11,359 --> 02:40:21,439 they don't realize they don't. Going to the landlord tenant board is um is slow. 1611 02:40:19,439 --> 02:40:28,160 It's technical and it's it doesn't necessarily answer 1612 02:40:25,439 --> 02:40:34,080 the immediate problem of an individual who is struggling with their families or 1613 02:40:31,760 --> 02:40:37,520 to to pay the rent to find somewhere else to live. 1614 02:40:36,000 --> 02:40:42,000 The shocking thing about the Earl's Court case, and it's incidentally still 1615 02:40:40,000 --> 02:40:46,160 going on, we're going back to divisional court on it. We've already been to the 1616 02:40:43,600 --> 02:40:50,960 court of appeal. The landlord appealed. We're now going back to divisional court 1617 02:40:48,000 --> 02:40:55,520 on another appeal. Again, delay. Luckily, the tenants are back in. We had 1618 02:40:53,040 --> 02:40:58,960 to get the sheriff to do the opposite of what the sheriff normally does, which is 1619 02:40:57,120 --> 02:41:03,920 evict. We had to have the sheriff restore them to their units. The sheriff 1620 02:41:01,920 --> 02:41:08,160 had to force the landlord. He went in. We had locksmiths change the locks so 1621 02:41:06,399 --> 02:41:12,640 the tenants could go back into their units and the landlord fought to the 1622 02:41:09,760 --> 02:41:17,439 bitter end to stop that happening. This is why I think you need to look at this 1623 02:41:15,200 --> 02:41:20,800 bylaw in the in the context of give it some 1624 02:41:19,280 --> 02:41:25,280 teeth because I think a lot of these landlords 1625 02:41:23,439 --> 02:41:30,080 some landlords see their their operations as a service. We're providing 1626 02:41:27,680 --> 02:41:34,399 homes. We protect the tenants in our homes. We make sure there's security. we 1627 02:41:32,560 --> 02:41:39,439 repair things, those kinds of things. Other landlords, it's transactional. 1628 02:41:37,200 --> 02:41:44,319 They just want to maximize profit per unit. And out of actually out of 1629 02:41:42,479 --> 02:41:49,040 country, investors are investing in Canada to these organizations to buy up 1630 02:41:46,880 --> 02:41:53,200 these buildings. It's it's bigger than you think. 1631 02:41:51,040 --> 02:41:58,720 So, we would like penalties and compensation to be included in the bylaw 1632 02:41:55,439 --> 02:42:02,800 if possible. Um, I think that's all I have to say. Thank 1633 02:42:00,640 --> 02:42:07,040 you. Thank you very much. Thanks very much, council. The report's on the 1634 02:42:05,120 --> 02:42:10,319 agenda for you. It's item number one. You've heard from the speakers. We've 1635 02:42:08,800 --> 02:42:14,399 had this issue in front of us a number of times. I'm looking for a motion to 1636 02:42:12,720 --> 02:42:19,040 send this back to staff to move forward. Councelor Gillis, Councelor Vandenberg. 1637 02:42:16,640 --> 02:42:25,280 Any discussion? Councelor Burl, councelor Dennis. 1638 02:42:22,479 --> 02:42:29,359 » Uh yes, your worship. Uh I will not be supporting this one. 1639 02:42:27,120 --> 02:42:35,840 I um I feel we're taking on 1640 02:42:33,600 --> 02:42:41,840 really a duty that is the duty of the province, not our duty. 1641 02:42:39,520 --> 02:42:47,680 And it's just going to cause our folks have more work, more 1642 02:42:44,720 --> 02:42:55,200 headaches. I I'm not aware of there being a big 1643 02:42:52,240 --> 02:43:00,319 problem with this. there is as indicated here, but usually the 1644 02:42:57,600 --> 02:43:06,560 people that are doing it are often the bigger corporations 1645 02:43:03,760 --> 02:43:11,840 and um they have the monies to fight it and 1646 02:43:08,319 --> 02:43:20,399 that's who the province should be taking on and uh I just feel that's not this is 1647 02:43:17,280 --> 02:43:23,600 not work our people should be doing. Thank you. I've got councelor Dennis and 1648 02:43:22,000 --> 02:43:27,600 councelor Vandenberg and I'll call the question. 1649 02:43:24,640 --> 02:43:31,520 » Uh thank you, Mayor Bradley. Um I I do have a concern with the report before 1650 02:43:29,439 --> 02:43:36,479 us. Um when council directed staff to review this matter, uh we specifically 1651 02:43:33,439 --> 02:43:40,080 requested a cost an analysis that was not a minor part of the request. In 1652 02:43:38,240 --> 02:43:44,880 fact, understanding the financial implications is essential if council is 1653 02:43:42,319 --> 02:43:49,840 expected to make an informed decision. Why hasn't the CEO advised us before now 1654 02:43:47,520 --> 02:43:54,160 that our request wasn't going to be met? How can council make decisions with the 1655 02:43:52,000 --> 02:43:59,359 only part of the with only part of the information uh requested? As a reminder, 1656 02:43:57,439 --> 02:44:03,359 my original motion on this matter was back in February. Let's face it, a plan 1657 02:44:01,760 --> 02:44:06,880 without teeth is not worth the paper it's written on. Also, the proposal 1658 02:44:05,439 --> 02:44:11,680 before us doesn't deal with the protection needed for good landlords as 1659 02:44:08,960 --> 02:44:16,560 well as for for tenants who cause damage or play games which is needed to protect 1660 02:44:14,080 --> 02:44:22,000 the good landlords. We need a plan which protects good landlords and good uh good 1661 02:44:19,359 --> 02:44:28,800 tenants and penalizes the bad ones. How can we vote today on a on a part plan? 1662 02:44:24,399 --> 02:44:32,160 When the exact timing uh uh when is the exact timing when this request will be 1663 02:44:30,720 --> 02:44:35,040 met? Thank you. >> Thank you. I've got councelor Vanderberg 1664 02:44:33,600 --> 02:44:39,120 and then I'll deal with the question. >> Uh thank you worship. Um maybe everybody 1665 02:44:37,600 --> 02:44:43,600 already forgot about Mr. Quan's presentation, but he said as soon as 1666 02:44:40,640 --> 02:44:48,880 they put the renovation bylaw in effect um applications, the N13s went way down. 1667 02:44:47,040 --> 02:44:55,720 So, I think that that thing is working and I think we should be supporting it. 1668 02:44:51,920 --> 02:44:55,720 » I'll call the question. 1669 02:44:56,399 --> 02:45:05,040 » There was not an answer to the question posed by Mr. Dennis that there was 1670 02:45:02,160 --> 02:45:09,920 supposed to be a financial cost in here. Unfortunately, the CEO is not 1671 02:45:07,359 --> 02:45:14,840 here today, but um can someone on staff speak to uh that that question? 1672 02:45:15,040 --> 02:45:21,760 » Go ahead. >> Sure. Through the mayor. Uh so 1673 02:45:19,840 --> 02:45:29,439 through uh looking at the February motion, um staff understood that council 1674 02:45:25,279 --> 02:45:36,399 um wanted a a report as soon as possible um on this issue. And as part of that um 1675 02:45:33,279 --> 02:45:42,319 to expedite the process a licensing only bylaw was re recommended. Uh we can 1676 02:45:40,240 --> 02:45:46,160 certainly explore the amps. Um it's just not a 1677 02:45:44,160 --> 02:45:49,120 mechanism. It's it's not a system that we currently have in place. That's not 1678 02:45:47,680 --> 02:45:53,840 to say that if that is council's direction that we cannot go in that 1679 02:45:50,399 --> 02:45:59,439 route. Um we can certainly explore uh offenses under the municipal act as well 1680 02:45:55,279 --> 02:46:04,000 as was suggested um to do with the uh cost analysis. Staff are still proposing 1681 02:46:01,840 --> 02:46:06,479 that we do such an analysis. However, again, in the interest of time, we 1682 02:46:05,200 --> 02:46:11,120 wanted to bring this back with the recommendation for the the bylaw. Um 1683 02:46:09,840 --> 02:46:13,840 because if we were to bring both at once, it would have it would have meant 1684 02:46:12,479 --> 02:46:16,000 we didn't have a report at this time. Thank you. 1685 02:46:14,319 --> 02:46:19,520 » Thank you. Well, I'll call the question. Those in f counselor Gillis, 1686 02:46:17,840 --> 02:46:24,880 » I'm sorry, your worship. Don't mean to interrupt, but uh picking up on Mr. Quan 1687 02:46:22,240 --> 02:46:29,200 and Mr. Boulders, I don't recall seeing anything with regard to um any 1688 02:46:27,439 --> 02:46:34,479 penalties. Uh this is simply redirect staff to 1689 02:46:31,359 --> 02:46:40,080 draft a renovation licensing bylaw, but there's nothing in here about the 1690 02:46:36,319 --> 02:46:44,800 penalties that should be um >> put with them. Does will that need more 1691 02:46:42,160 --> 02:46:47,840 study? Uh so through the mayor uh if that is 1692 02:46:46,720 --> 02:46:52,560 the direction of council we can certainly look to include the uh 1693 02:46:50,080 --> 02:46:57,520 offenses through municipal act sorry um as well as any gap payments or moving 1694 02:46:56,560 --> 02:47:01,840 expenses. >> If if the motion passes I'll take that 1695 02:46:59,279 --> 02:47:04,080 as a friendly amendment to it if that's fine with moving sector. Okay. 1696 02:47:03,520 --> 02:47:07,920 » Yes. >> All right. Let me call the question. 1697 02:47:05,600 --> 02:47:14,560 I'll record the vote. Those in favor council Vanderberg White Bush Mc Roberts 1698 02:47:11,760 --> 02:47:19,760 Kellner and myself. Those opposed? Council. 1699 02:47:17,279 --> 02:47:23,279 Yes. Council Bro, you're opposed. Okay. So, 1700 02:47:21,439 --> 02:47:25,920 the question passes. All right. Can we move that the regular agenda? We've got 1701 02:47:24,640 --> 02:47:31,920 some people patiently waiting to deal with humane society issues. So, let's um 1702 02:47:29,279 --> 02:47:35,640 uh first second item is reconstruction of Ontario Street. 1703 02:47:35,760 --> 02:47:41,680 Councelor Burl, you're moving it. Second, 1704 02:47:38,800 --> 02:47:46,000 councelor White. All in favor? That is done. 1705 02:47:44,000 --> 02:47:51,200 Number three is the an upgrade significant upgrade of the Clearwater uh 1706 02:47:47,920 --> 02:47:57,920 baseball diamonds, councelor Burl, Councelor White. All those in favor, 1707 02:47:54,399 --> 02:48:02,160 » your worship, may I ask a question? >> Um 1708 02:47:59,840 --> 02:48:06,479 who is this company that's uh put in this proposal? Because I can't find 1709 02:48:04,000 --> 02:48:10,880 them. Um they're operating at at an address on 1710 02:48:08,640 --> 02:48:15,359 Elgenfield Road out in Middle Sex County. 1711 02:48:13,120 --> 02:48:22,080 uh there is no presence on the internet. They have no website and they show us 1712 02:48:17,920 --> 02:48:26,640 TDS turf drainage systems. So, and then when you do do your search, it says that 1713 02:48:24,479 --> 02:48:30,399 they've already got this contract. So, I'm a little concerned about this. 1714 02:48:28,479 --> 02:48:37,000 » Can someone on staff address that question? Usually, we see there's some 1715 02:48:33,040 --> 02:48:37,000 past history with the company 1716 02:48:38,399 --> 02:48:44,760 » through to council. I would assume that would have all been handled through the 1717 02:48:41,279 --> 02:48:44,760 procurement process. 1718 02:48:45,359 --> 02:48:52,319 » Someone speak to that? I don't want council voting on this without a high 1719 02:48:49,600 --> 02:48:54,479 level of comfort. >> Uh through the mayor? I don't have that 1720 02:48:53,520 --> 02:48:57,279 information at the moment, but I can certainly um to that. 1721 02:48:55,840 --> 02:49:04,439 » So, can I go back to the parks and wreck? Um how immediate can this wait 1722 02:49:00,880 --> 02:49:04,439 till the next meeting? 1723 02:49:04,479 --> 02:49:08,680 I'm tight because of the time of year. 1724 02:49:09,680 --> 02:49:15,120 through the merit to council. I can look into it and report back. 1725 02:49:12,800 --> 02:49:18,399 » I guess my question, Mr. McN, is a month going to delay it beyond it being a 1726 02:49:16,800 --> 02:49:22,960 practical tender for this year? >> Could be. 1727 02:49:20,080 --> 02:49:28,800 » I suggest we approve it with more information to come back that 1728 02:49:24,720 --> 02:49:33,520 is to the satisfaction of council. Mr. counter. 1729 02:49:30,240 --> 02:49:38,160 » Um, so like a simple Google search, it's VR, as far as I understand, it's VRC 1730 02:49:35,840 --> 02:49:43,680 contracting and um, it's the first result that comes up on Google 1731 02:49:40,720 --> 02:49:49,120 in Lucan. Now if you know our procurement policy which gets criticized 1732 02:49:45,600 --> 02:49:53,840 quite a bit, it is so ex uh detailed and deep that I have to take a leap of faith 1733 02:49:51,840 --> 02:49:58,399 and believe that this group has been vetted and 1734 02:49:56,479 --> 02:50:03,120 » I would suggest we go ahead with it because it is a baseball thing and 1735 02:50:00,960 --> 02:50:06,479 baseball season is only a certain length of time. So 1736 02:50:04,800 --> 02:50:10,080 » well if the question passes I would ask councelor that we still get 1737 02:50:08,399 --> 02:50:14,080 » a bit of a dive back to us and in the future that happens. It is a good point. 1738 02:50:11,920 --> 02:50:16,720 We should make sure these people are upstanding people. 1739 02:50:15,840 --> 02:50:21,439 » Yeah. >> So to the clerk, the motion is to 1740 02:50:18,720 --> 02:50:27,760 approve it and information back to council on on on this company. 1741 02:50:25,040 --> 02:50:33,359 » All right. All those in favor. That's done. Moving to um this is an 1742 02:50:31,040 --> 02:50:38,399 agreement between OG which there's no money to attach to it right now, but 1743 02:50:35,520 --> 02:50:44,640 councelor Bro, you're moving it. Um just move this forward. Councelor 1744 02:50:41,760 --> 02:50:50,240 Gillis. Okay. Thank you. All those in favor? 1745 02:50:46,960 --> 02:50:53,840 That's done. Uh item uh five is related to declaring a piece of land uh that the 1746 02:50:52,479 --> 02:50:57,520 Humane Society was interested in a number of years ago. They're back to 1747 02:50:54,960 --> 02:51:01,120 that site. I have put a notice of motion to you. Uh it's an unusual one because I 1748 02:50:59,760 --> 02:51:04,160 normally wouldn't do it, but since we've been dealing with them for about six 1749 02:51:02,319 --> 02:51:07,920 years and we need to bring this to an end for their sake and our sake, I'm 1750 02:51:06,080 --> 02:51:12,319 suggesting that you uh give them the first right of refusal if there are any 1751 02:51:09,600 --> 02:51:16,560 other interested parties. Councelor Ker, you're moving that. Councelor White, any 1752 02:51:14,399 --> 02:51:20,960 discussion. >> What is the motion? Because you're 1753 02:51:18,080 --> 02:51:25,600 talking two different things. >> Uh the motion is the one that I sent to 1754 02:51:22,399 --> 02:51:29,920 you last week. Uh surplus declaration. Uh council proceeds to the declaration 1755 02:51:27,359 --> 02:51:33,520 as a of a portion of Centennial Park as suggested surplus that the Sonia 1756 02:51:32,000 --> 02:51:39,240 District Humane Society be given first right of refusal and that be 1757 02:51:35,040 --> 02:51:39,240 incorporated into the public notice. 1758 02:51:41,040 --> 02:51:46,640 » Councelor Dennis. >> Uh I do have some comments if that's 1759 02:51:44,479 --> 02:51:50,279 okay. Sir, >> you have a second. 1760 02:51:51,680 --> 02:51:58,439 » Do we have a mover and second? I think the motion goes. 1761 02:52:00,479 --> 02:52:06,160 » Is it okay to go ahead, sir? >> Well, well, you can do it. There's a 1762 02:52:03,920 --> 02:52:09,359 couple here that the um the motion should be that we declare the land 1763 02:52:07,359 --> 02:52:12,880 surplus and then you put in my motion if you agree with it into the overall 1764 02:52:11,840 --> 02:52:16,319 motion. >> Um yeah, I I I agree with 1765 02:52:15,120 --> 02:52:19,439 » I have a move in second. Do I have a move? We got a move here. Yeah. But I 1766 02:52:17,920 --> 02:52:24,240 want also understand you agreed to the first right of refusal. Okay. I I I want 1767 02:52:22,319 --> 02:52:28,319 to make a friendly amendment to it, sir. >> Well, we already have a motion on the 1768 02:52:26,160 --> 02:52:32,399 floor. Moved and seconded. >> But I'd like to make a friendly 1769 02:52:29,600 --> 02:52:42,640 amendment to your motion, sir. which is >> um well that um that uh um given the uh 1770 02:52:38,399 --> 02:52:47,040 given the uh history uh with the uh um the humane society um the city in my 1771 02:52:45,439 --> 02:52:53,200 opinion and the opinion of a lot of others is that the city hasn't uh been 1772 02:52:50,399 --> 02:53:01,120 uh the the best to deal with and the the city the humane society um is a very 1773 02:52:57,120 --> 02:53:06,640 important community partner. Um I uh naturally I agree that we should deem 1774 02:53:03,279 --> 02:53:11,840 the lands surplus and I would like to direct staff to immediately negotiate a 1775 02:53:09,040 --> 02:53:19,439 transfer of the property to the uh Sarnia and District Humane Society for 1776 02:53:14,640 --> 02:53:25,520 zero uh sale price but cost only. So, uh I don't uh I want to skip uh declaring 1777 02:53:22,080 --> 02:53:30,560 it well, we declared it uh um surplus, but I want to go one step further and 1778 02:53:27,359 --> 02:53:35,279 just uh donate the land to them uh uh for zero price whatever we have it 1779 02:53:32,880 --> 02:53:41,439 whatever we have it on on on the books and and uh and and uh uh uh for costs 1780 02:53:39,279 --> 02:53:45,279 only. That's that's what I'd like to do. >> Yeah. I don't see that as an amendment. 1781 02:53:43,120 --> 02:53:49,680 Um because this is really the first part of it kicks off the process of the 1782 02:53:46,960 --> 02:53:54,080 surplus land for 21 days. It will come back to you. Uh this just says you're 1783 02:53:52,000 --> 02:53:57,600 going to exclusively deal or give them a first right of refusal and when it comes 1784 02:53:56,399 --> 02:54:01,840 back you then have the right to determine what you're going to do with 1785 02:53:59,200 --> 02:54:06,399 the uh sale of that land. Councelor McRoberts. I don't have a do I 1786 02:54:03,920 --> 02:54:13,680 have a seconder on the amendment? I'm not seeing it. Okay. Councelor Mc 1787 02:54:08,000 --> 02:54:18,000 Roberts. Uh, I would like to suggest can we not just make a hundredyear 1788 02:54:16,319 --> 02:54:21,000 rental agreement with the Humane Society? 1789 02:54:21,040 --> 02:54:26,240 » My understanding from previous discussions is that that's one reason 1790 02:54:24,560 --> 02:54:28,800 the surplus land declaration was made. They did not want to go back into 1791 02:54:27,600 --> 02:54:32,160 another land lease. >> Then if we follow that, that we would 1792 02:54:30,479 --> 02:54:35,920 get the first right of refusal. If they purchase it, they win it. They move on. 1793 02:54:34,479 --> 02:54:39,200 if they ever want to sell it that the city would get the first opportunity to 1794 02:54:37,600 --> 02:54:42,479 purchase it back. >> That would probably be part of the the 1795 02:54:40,880 --> 02:54:44,720 agreement that we make. We always have that 1796 02:54:43,040 --> 02:54:47,760 » that obligation. I just want to make sure it's understood here what's going 1797 02:54:46,000 --> 02:54:50,080 on. It's quite quite important. Please can you read the back what the 1798 02:54:48,720 --> 02:54:53,760 resolution is? So, so the motion is a combination of 1799 02:54:52,160 --> 02:54:57,359 the recommendation set out in correspondence number five, which is 1800 02:54:55,439 --> 02:55:03,520 that Sarnne City Council declares surplus a portion of Centennial Park as 1801 02:55:00,479 --> 02:55:07,680 identified in this report along with notice of motion number two, which reads 1802 02:55:06,000 --> 02:55:11,840 that if council proceeds with the declaration of a portion of Centennial 1803 02:55:09,439 --> 02:55:16,399 Park surplus, that the Sarnian District Humane Society be given first right of 1804 02:55:13,760 --> 02:55:23,279 refusal and that bec incorporated in the public notice. 1805 02:55:19,600 --> 02:55:27,680 So I will call the question. >> Councelor Burl. 1806 02:55:25,520 --> 02:55:35,120 » Yes. I will speak against the first Briter refusal part. Um if you recall 1807 02:55:31,760 --> 02:55:41,760 there was quite a kurufflele many years ago with the town of 1808 02:55:38,080 --> 02:55:47,040 Clearwater and uh a school board with regards to playing with a first rate of 1809 02:55:44,160 --> 02:55:54,720 refusal. And I think we should learn our lesson and don't do that. I think 1810 02:55:51,040 --> 02:56:01,279 declaring it surplus should be done as a that should be the motion and then if 1811 02:55:58,560 --> 02:56:04,720 they want to buy it they should buy it and if they don't want to buy it they 1812 02:56:02,800 --> 02:56:12,399 should not buy it. But the first right of ethusal situation really just 1813 02:56:10,080 --> 02:56:17,840 oils the value of the of the property. They don't ever have to do anything. 1814 02:56:15,920 --> 02:56:23,439 City just has to sit there and twirl twiddle their thumbs. It's not a good 1815 02:56:20,800 --> 02:56:28,640 idea in my opinion to put that in there. We declaring it 1816 02:56:25,920 --> 02:56:34,240 and expecting them to buy it. I I have no problem with that if they decide they 1817 02:56:30,160 --> 02:56:39,680 want to buy it. But to immediately give them the first right of refuse 1818 02:56:36,240 --> 02:56:45,840 refusal without even having anything official for them that they were even 1819 02:56:41,600 --> 02:56:52,000 officially interested in it or of having a value on the property uh as determined 1820 02:56:49,520 --> 02:56:56,399 like I believe we're supposed to do and how we find this that or give it to them 1821 02:56:54,160 --> 02:57:00,479 or whatever. But I don't think we're following the correct procedures and I 1822 02:56:58,880 --> 02:57:05,920 think we can get ourselves into a jackpot by running too fast. 1823 02:57:03,760 --> 02:57:09,840 » Okay. What I'll do is I will split the question. I will deal with the declar 1824 02:57:08,080 --> 02:57:12,960 declaration of surplus of land and then the second question will be do you wish 1825 02:57:11,200 --> 02:57:17,120 to have the first right of refusal? And in reference to your uh the former clear 1826 02:57:15,120 --> 02:57:21,040 water land deal which I thought about a lot before I propose this that was done 1827 02:57:19,359 --> 02:57:24,720 in the middle of the night with a private company. We've been dealing with 1828 02:57:23,040 --> 02:57:28,000 this group now for five to six years and I just for this council's sake and the 1829 02:57:26,399 --> 02:57:31,520 humane society I want to bring it to a conclusion. So I will split the question 1830 02:57:30,080 --> 02:57:36,000 councelor Gillis and I'll move I'll call the questions. 1831 02:57:34,160 --> 02:57:41,439 » I would appreciate the fact that you do split that. Um, but I think it's it's 1832 02:57:38,560 --> 02:57:47,520 interesting to note that uh the Sarnia Humane Society has been on that site for 1833 02:57:43,279 --> 02:57:52,880 43 years and um there's an old saying possession is 9/10en of the law and even 1834 02:57:50,160 --> 02:57:59,680 though they have been renters for 43 years, the property itself is considered 1835 02:57:56,319 --> 02:58:06,000 um loosely interpreted though, but to be a part like they are the the owner 1836 02:58:04,160 --> 02:58:10,880 operator I guess you could call it that there's uh probably a different type of 1837 02:58:08,000 --> 02:58:15,840 legal term that I'm seeking and I'm sure Miss Nicholson would have that but there 1838 02:58:13,520 --> 02:58:21,840 is a certain precedent around someone who's been there for 43 years. Obviously 1839 02:58:18,880 --> 02:58:27,840 their intent is well determined. The other thing too is they are they have uh 1840 02:58:24,960 --> 02:58:31,600 done a phenomenal uh service to the city because the city under the municipal act 1841 02:58:29,760 --> 02:58:37,840 is supposed to have a pound. We don't have a pound. The Sarnney Humane Society 1842 02:58:34,240 --> 02:58:43,120 is our pound and if we didn't have them, we would be in trouble. So, I mean, 1843 02:58:41,040 --> 02:58:48,479 they've done us a great service to do what they've done over the past 43 1844 02:58:45,120 --> 02:58:54,160 years. Um, and I think this is something that is going to be very beneficial, but 1845 02:58:51,439 --> 02:58:59,680 I do have a a question when the next one you're the right of refusal comes up 1846 02:58:56,080 --> 02:59:04,880 with regard to the EOI. So um >> I I want to make it clear we're not 1847 02:59:01,040 --> 02:59:10,080 talking about the existing site. >> Yes, I I understand that. But you can 1848 02:59:07,359 --> 02:59:13,680 give right refusal to the adjacent site. And the one of the reasons can be 1849 02:59:12,000 --> 02:59:19,600 because of the fact that they've been long-term residents for 43 years. And um 1850 02:59:17,439 --> 02:59:23,920 yes, they are I believe they are entitled to have the first right of 1851 02:59:21,120 --> 02:59:28,399 refusal, but I'm I'm sure that um the legal will work through or can can speak 1852 02:59:26,000 --> 02:59:32,640 to that. though. Sorry, I need to be clear here that 1853 02:59:30,560 --> 02:59:35,680 existing site will be subject to f future negotiations depending what the 1854 02:59:34,319 --> 02:59:40,319 humane society wants to do with the existing site. Is that not correct? 1855 02:59:38,240 --> 02:59:44,479 » Uh yes, that is correct. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right, let me come back 1856 02:59:42,399 --> 02:59:53,880 here. I'll split the question. And the first is to declare the land surplus. 1857 02:59:48,240 --> 02:59:53,880 » Yeah, sure. Um all those in favor? 1858 02:59:54,000 --> 02:59:59,840 I think I've got got everyone that's unanimous. 1859 02:59:58,319 --> 03:00:03,760 Okay. And the second one's do you wish to have a first write a refusal for the 1860 03:00:01,760 --> 03:00:09,840 humane society in the tender call? Councelor McRoberts, 1861 03:00:05,920 --> 03:00:14,640 » can I add my if they do accept and they own the land that we have the first 1862 03:00:11,840 --> 03:00:18,560 » standard but I it's not a bad idea to have it there. So you're moving that if 1863 03:00:16,319 --> 03:00:24,399 we do put this right of refusal in uh that if they exercise their option then 1864 03:00:22,479 --> 03:00:27,680 there would be we would have the first right on the property. 1865 03:00:25,520 --> 03:00:31,600 » Correct. They could have an anon donor come in and give them millions and they 1866 03:00:29,680 --> 03:00:34,560 want to move elsewhere just so that we can retain that frontage of this. 1867 03:00:32,880 --> 03:00:40,000 » Take that as part of the resolution. Okay. Let me get to that resolution. 1868 03:00:36,399 --> 03:00:46,359 Okay. Uh if I may, I just want if the EOIs are going to come to the next 1869 03:00:43,359 --> 03:00:46,359 meeting, 1870 03:00:46,479 --> 03:00:52,000 can uh the expression of interest, will they be brought forward to the next 1871 03:00:51,359 --> 03:00:54,399 meeting? >> Yes. 1872 03:00:52,800 --> 03:00:58,399 » Okay. So July 20th, >> no, no, the this just starts that 1873 03:00:56,399 --> 03:01:03,520 process through our land bylaw. That means um the the call will go out. 1874 03:01:01,439 --> 03:01:08,560 » Yes. And the EOIs can come back. We can put a 1875 03:01:05,920 --> 03:01:14,560 time limit on that, can we not? >> So through the mayor, the proposed 1876 03:01:11,200 --> 03:01:18,640 timeline um if as council directed um the surplus lands decoration at this 1877 03:01:16,319 --> 03:01:22,960 meeting would be to post public notice following this meeting as was required 1878 03:01:20,160 --> 03:01:27,760 under the policy for 21 days uh to host the public meeting um under the policy 1879 03:01:25,040 --> 03:01:32,000 as it's uh public parkland and then to seek direction to solicit EOIs for um 1880 03:01:30,479 --> 03:01:36,560 six to eight weeks. That would be um what our proposed timeline is uh for the 1881 03:01:34,800 --> 03:01:41,600 July meeting. >> Thank you. That's understood. All those 1882 03:01:39,120 --> 03:01:45,680 in favor. Sorry. >> Sorry. I would like to motion that it is 1883 03:01:43,520 --> 03:01:52,160 not understood what's happening. I would like to to hear the actual motion that 1884 03:01:48,960 --> 03:01:57,200 we're voting on >> about the 1885 03:01:55,200 --> 03:02:00,960 » uh I actually didn't capture the friendly amendment that was introduced 1886 03:01:58,880 --> 03:02:06,240 by councelor McRobert. So, I would need some clarification on that. What is 1887 03:02:02,960 --> 03:02:11,439 before council right now is uh notice of motion number two, but I believe there 1888 03:02:09,120 --> 03:02:15,840 was a friendly amendment that was specified by councelor McRoberts. 1889 03:02:13,760 --> 03:02:18,560 » Yeah, the the the motion I put forward was that it uh that we move forward, 1890 03:02:17,600 --> 03:02:22,240 give them the right first right of refusal. And what councelor McRoberts is 1891 03:02:20,479 --> 03:02:25,439 suggesting, which makes sense, that also the city would have the same privilege 1892 03:02:23,520 --> 03:02:29,520 if they exercise and purchase the land that if they decided to leave it five, 1893 03:02:27,840 --> 03:02:34,240 50 years from now, the city would have that chance first. 1894 03:02:32,640 --> 03:02:37,040 A first right of refusal on a first right of refusal. Oh, 1895 03:02:35,279 --> 03:02:42,206 » okay. >> All right. 1896 03:02:39,359 --> 03:02:46,319 Let me call the question. [sighs] 1897 03:02:43,520 --> 03:02:52,080 All those in favor >> Oh, David, I'm trying. 1898 03:02:49,439 --> 03:02:56,479 Let me do it again for the clerk. You're the recording 1899 03:02:53,680 --> 03:03:02,800 secretary. >> Um the the motion is that um the Sarnian 1900 03:03:00,640 --> 03:03:07,680 District Humane Society be given first right of refusal and that be 1901 03:03:04,479 --> 03:03:13,120 incorporated in the public notice and that the city of Sarnia be given the 1902 03:03:10,880 --> 03:03:17,040 first right of refusal should Sarnian District Humane Society wish to sell the 1903 03:03:15,359 --> 03:03:22,680 property in the future. That's exactly it. Let me call the 1904 03:03:18,720 --> 03:03:22,680 question. All those in favor. 1905 03:03:22,720 --> 03:03:27,279 See everyone in councelor Burl, you're not. So, everyone's in favor except 1906 03:03:25,520 --> 03:03:31,120 council burrow. Thank you. All right. Kenwick on the lake. Um, so we move to 1907 03:03:29,359 --> 03:03:36,240 that report on Kenwick on the lake which is to uh advance uh the investments in 1908 03:03:34,160 --> 03:03:40,319 Kenwick on the lake. Uh, and I will say to staff again just in the last few 1909 03:03:38,240 --> 03:03:43,359 days, we need to have more dialogue with the neighborhood. And I think Mr. 1910 03:03:41,359 --> 03:03:47,120 McDonald, you've started that because there's some concerns about the impacts 1911 03:03:45,120 --> 03:03:52,000 and all that. So if you could move the recommendation, 1912 03:03:49,520 --> 03:03:57,760 councelor White, councelor Bushie, any discussion? All in favor? That is done. 1913 03:03:55,520 --> 03:04:03,200 The draft audited financial statements. Uh this is straightforward. Do we have a 1914 03:04:00,319 --> 03:04:07,600 movement on that? A motion on that. Councelor Gillis, you're moving it. 1915 03:04:06,160 --> 03:04:10,399 » But there is correction that needs to be made. 1916 03:04:08,080 --> 03:04:15,040 » Sure. Uh let me get the second uh the motion there. Um, seconder on the motion 1917 03:04:13,439 --> 03:04:18,760 on the audited statements, councelor White, councelor Gillis, 1918 03:04:19,760 --> 03:04:28,399 » the u the audited statements are for 2025, but when I look at uh the 1919 03:04:25,279 --> 03:04:34,160 representatives of um of the police services board and their titles and the 1920 03:04:31,600 --> 03:04:38,399 people that are listed to be on it, they are the police services board of 2026. 1921 03:04:36,800 --> 03:04:41,680 They're not the police services board of 2025. 1922 03:04:39,920 --> 03:04:44,800 That that'll be I don't know. >> So that needs to be corrected. 1923 03:04:43,279 --> 03:04:47,520 » Yeah, that'll be corrected. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. 1924 03:04:45,359 --> 03:04:51,359 » All right. All those in favor. That is done. Uh the strategic asset to 1925 03:04:49,600 --> 03:04:56,800 management policy annual review. It's here for you to 1926 03:04:53,520 --> 03:05:01,120 even file adopt. I need a motion. Councelor 1927 03:04:58,720 --> 03:05:06,640 Vandenberg, Councelor McRoberts. All in favor? That is done. Uh hanger land 1928 03:05:04,560 --> 03:05:10,720 lease at Chris Hadfield Airport, which is coming to you on the public agenda. 1929 03:05:12,640 --> 03:05:19,200 Councelor McRoberts. All in favor? >> Can I comment on that, please? 1930 03:05:17,920 --> 03:05:22,800 » Go ahead, please. >> Uh, thank you. Uh, regarding the 1931 03:05:20,640 --> 03:05:26,080 recommended 20-year airport lease, we need to remember that we are in the 1932 03:05:24,240 --> 03:05:29,920 middle of fundamentally restructuring the future of the airport. We are 1933 03:05:27,920 --> 03:05:33,439 evaluating evaluating governance, operations, long-term investment, and 1934 03:05:31,920 --> 03:05:37,840 what the airport should look like for decades to come. to lock up uh airport 1935 03:05:36,000 --> 03:05:41,279 lands for 20 years before the work is complete is simply putting the cart 1936 03:05:39,279 --> 03:05:45,760 before the horse. What makes this even harder to understand is we are talking 1937 03:05:43,120 --> 03:05:49,760 about less than $900 a year in lease revenue. We are being asked to 1938 03:05:47,920 --> 03:05:54,560 potentially restrict future options for airport lands for two decades in 1939 03:05:51,840 --> 03:06:00,080 exchange for a revenue stream of $900. Quite frankly, the idea that we would 1940 03:05:56,560 --> 03:06:04,399 lock in a 20-year commitment while uh sim simultaneously discussing the future 1941 03:06:02,560 --> 03:06:08,240 of restructuring the airport is beyond comprehension. I will strongly be voting 1942 03:06:06,560 --> 03:06:11,760 against this. Thank you, >> Ro. Can you talk to those concerns 1943 03:06:11,600 --> 03:06:16,720 for >> the mayor to members of council? So, 1944 03:06:13,439 --> 03:06:20,000 with regards to the location that is being proposed for this land lease, it 1945 03:06:18,240 --> 03:06:24,479 is in an area that has been identified in the airport master plan as suitable 1946 03:06:22,240 --> 03:06:29,040 for this exact purpose. It is encouraged that we expand the general aviation 1947 03:06:27,200 --> 03:06:32,160 hangar development in this exact area. And that's why working with the the 1948 03:06:30,720 --> 03:06:36,640 applicant who is seeking this land lease, we have selected this location as 1949 03:06:34,800 --> 03:06:41,279 the most viable location because it has already been evaluated to serve well for 1950 03:06:39,040 --> 03:06:44,960 the future needs of the airport. >> Let me call the question. Those in 1951 03:06:42,960 --> 03:06:50,800 favor, >> those opposed. That is passed. 1952 03:06:48,800 --> 03:06:55,840 There's a noise by exemption. It's I think fairly regularly we do this one. 1953 03:06:52,479 --> 03:07:01,439 Councelor Burl and Roberts. All in favor? 1954 03:06:58,880 --> 03:07:05,439 Next is the $3.5 million request for the base recreation campus. Looking for a 1955 03:07:03,920 --> 03:07:09,040 motion. And I will record this vote to councelor 1956 03:07:07,279 --> 03:07:13,279 White. Councelor Vandenberg. >> Councelor Burl. 1957 03:07:11,120 --> 03:07:18,800 » Yes. I thought we were going to get back sort of a 1958 03:07:15,840 --> 03:07:25,680 a better write up of what actually is happening with this organization. 1959 03:07:21,920 --> 03:07:31,760 And I don't see that like uh it sort of talks about the money that the city is 1960 03:07:27,840 --> 03:07:37,840 putting in but it really doesn't tell us uh who's running the organization, how 1961 03:07:34,319 --> 03:07:43,439 the board of directors are selected, what funds are available from that 1962 03:07:41,200 --> 03:07:47,439 organization. Uh the only thing that seems to be talked about is what the 1963 03:07:45,040 --> 03:07:53,120 city's kicking in and there was some talk about the fact that they received 1964 03:07:50,560 --> 03:08:00,000 a donation from a family of certain properties. Uh but um really there's to 1965 03:07:57,439 --> 03:08:04,720 me this is a you know considering the major monies and the fact that we're 1966 03:08:02,319 --> 03:08:10,640 borrowing this monies there should be a lot better report than this one as to 1967 03:08:07,840 --> 03:08:15,840 what is going on with this organization. What are the legal structures? Who uh 1968 03:08:13,120 --> 03:08:20,240 you know who runs it? Who owns it? Uh what are the what is the participation 1969 03:08:18,479 --> 03:08:25,439 by the city in the running of the organization? 1970 03:08:21,920 --> 03:08:29,840 What is uh who is who is eligible to participate? What are the costs of 1971 03:08:28,319 --> 03:08:34,560 membership? Who can be a member? Like all that kind 1972 03:08:32,880 --> 03:08:40,399 of stuff. There's just nothing here that I could see that substantiates. And all 1973 03:08:37,840 --> 03:08:47,520 I see here is well, yep, the city's given them some money, but they the, you 1974 03:08:44,640 --> 03:08:51,600 know, the overall in and I I have no reason to really believe there's any 1975 03:08:48,960 --> 03:08:59,200 real problems, but it's not laid out. What is we need a much more 1976 03:08:55,680 --> 03:09:04,399 uh greater explanation to the good folks of the city of Sarna why we're spending 1977 03:09:01,920 --> 03:09:10,560 this money because there's just almost nothing. Councor, if you wanted to table 1978 03:09:07,040 --> 03:09:13,920 move to table this for that to come back that would be appropriate. 1979 03:09:11,840 --> 03:09:21,120 » Certainly I I would I would move that this be come for a report back on the 1980 03:09:17,760 --> 03:09:26,000 structure of the operation uh and other funding available to the organization. 1981 03:09:24,000 --> 03:09:30,160 Now some of it they may want to just give it to us in camera or whatever that 1982 03:09:28,000 --> 03:09:34,080 I mean that's fine by me if they don't want everything to be out in public. But 1983 03:09:32,399 --> 03:09:39,439 » I'm sorry. I If you're moving the tableabling, I can't let you continue. 1984 03:09:36,399 --> 03:09:42,000 » Oh, sorry. Yeah. And that's that's why I'm tableabling you. 1985 03:09:40,640 --> 03:09:47,720 » Look to the next meeting for report from the CEO. Seconder. Councelor McRoberts. 1986 03:09:44,160 --> 03:09:47,720 All those in favor. 1987 03:09:49,279 --> 03:09:59,640 That's uh I'll record the vote. Council McRoberts, Burrow, Dennis, Bushi White, 1988 03:09:55,600 --> 03:09:59,640 myself. Those opposed? 1989 03:10:00,720 --> 03:10:06,319 That's just a table to have further information back here until 1990 03:10:05,040 --> 03:10:08,319 » the next meeting. >> Okay. 1991 03:10:06,640 --> 03:10:12,800 » Okay. So, councelor Kiner and and Vandenberg 1992 03:10:11,279 --> 03:10:16,880 are on board, too. So, the motion passes. Thank you, Council Burough. Uh, 1993 03:10:15,200 --> 03:10:21,439 Bryce Grove Library Project. There's been a lot of work here trying to bring 1994 03:10:18,160 --> 03:10:25,200 this um project to fruition and this is a bunch of motions that would move this 1995 03:10:23,520 --> 03:10:30,640 forward and put in protection for the city. Councelor White. Councelor 1996 03:10:26,880 --> 03:10:36,960 Vanderberg. Councelor Burl. I hate to sound like a uh broken record or a but I 1997 03:10:33,812 --> 03:10:41,439 [clears throat] just again find um 1998 03:10:39,200 --> 03:10:49,439 uh the way this is all sort of playing out again it's just 1999 03:10:44,319 --> 03:10:59,560 seems to be all city money um even to the extent of going into debt and uh 2000 03:10:53,760 --> 03:10:59,560 even into going into money from a fire 2001 03:10:59,680 --> 03:11:08,399 fire truck reserve. U and there doesn't to me seem to be a 2002 03:11:06,479 --> 03:11:15,600 good solid analysis here as to what all the money 2003 03:11:11,040 --> 03:11:18,800 is going to be used for. Um and the the continuing here is is that they're 2004 03:11:17,359 --> 03:11:22,720 saying well there's a little bit of money it goes into the future. Well, I 2005 03:11:21,359 --> 03:11:28,000 don't know. It seems to me if there's excess money, it come should come back 2006 03:11:24,479 --> 03:11:34,960 to the city. And uh because you know in these kind of things, there's usually 2007 03:11:32,000 --> 03:11:40,960 onethird is raised by subscription from people uh one-third is 2008 03:11:38,880 --> 03:11:47,200 provided by higher level governments and one-third by the city. But in this 2009 03:11:44,319 --> 03:11:54,720 particular program, it seems to be all city money. again. Um, I don't know. I 2010 03:11:50,240 --> 03:12:00,479 just don't see this particular project, you know, it it seems as though they're 2011 03:11:56,640 --> 03:12:05,680 wanting more and more when it's not obvious that a lot has been provided by 2012 03:12:02,800 --> 03:12:09,120 others other than the city and that's what that's all. And and you're saying 2013 03:12:07,760 --> 03:12:17,439 even if there is a little bit of money, it goes into future funding for there as 2014 03:12:11,600 --> 03:12:22,399 opposed to um trying to work out you know, a better split on the costs as 2015 03:12:20,160 --> 03:12:27,760 far as I'm concerned. And and beyond that, I again, there's no message in 2016 03:12:24,880 --> 03:12:33,920 here about what's happening with that supposed $5 million from the Liberal 2017 03:12:31,680 --> 03:12:39,920 government that they committed to. But again, no no talk of that here either. 2018 03:12:38,560 --> 03:12:42,960 » My understanding is, and you know, I brought a motion to you a few months ago 2019 03:12:41,200 --> 03:12:47,200 to put a cap on this at 6 million. Since it started at three, it's at six. I 2020 03:12:45,040 --> 03:12:51,760 think what's in here is actually bring some control to the project. Uh 2021 03:12:50,080 --> 03:12:54,479 particularly that if the and there are efforts underway to get the federal 2022 03:12:53,200 --> 03:12:58,960 money that four million that was promised if that happens that will 2023 03:12:56,560 --> 03:13:03,200 decrease on our side go back into our infrastructure particularly for the one 2024 03:13:00,640 --> 03:13:07,920 fire truck that was removed and and that expenditure. So um you know I've been a 2025 03:13:06,399 --> 03:13:11,200 strong advocate on taking control of this project but I think this here at 2026 03:13:09,439 --> 03:13:14,080 the end is a really good wrapup of the project. 2027 03:13:12,800 --> 03:13:18,240 But I understand your concerns, councelor Burl. So it's been moved and 2028 03:13:16,479 --> 03:13:21,520 seconded. Any other speakers? Councelor Gillis 2029 03:13:20,240 --> 03:13:25,760 » was before me. Your >> Oh, you go first. Simply because of your 2030 03:13:23,920 --> 03:13:28,560 I'm you might answer some of my questions. 2031 03:13:27,040 --> 03:13:32,479 » Uh I want to clarify that this recommendation is not asking council to 2032 03:13:30,960 --> 03:13:37,439 increase the approved budget for the Brits library project or commit 2033 03:13:34,800 --> 03:13:42,000 additional tax dollars. The construction tender was approximately 5.45 45 2034 03:13:39,840 --> 03:13:45,680 million, but the total project cost is higher because it also includes the 2035 03:13:44,080 --> 03:13:50,800 approved contingency and project management costs. The project has an 2036 03:13:48,399 --> 03:13:55,520 approved funding envelope of 6.35 million with a remaining uncommitted 2037 03:13:52,800 --> 03:14:01,040 balance within that approved amount. The proposed fundraising and donor 2038 03:13:57,680 --> 03:14:06,160 recognition budget of up to 50,000 would come from the existing approved project 2039 03:14:03,279 --> 03:14:10,319 capacity. It is intended to support the practical work required to run an 2040 03:14:08,479 --> 03:14:14,640 effective campaign engaging the community, preparing sponsors and pledge 2041 03:14:12,720 --> 03:14:19,680 materials, administering donor agreements, recognizing contributors 2042 03:14:17,439 --> 03:14:24,560 appropriately, and creating a permanent donor recognition feature within the 2043 03:14:22,080 --> 03:14:28,640 library. This is not simply an expense for a donor wall. It is an investment in 2044 03:14:26,880 --> 03:14:33,760 the fundraising and donor stewardship program that helps encourage community 2045 03:14:31,359 --> 03:14:39,279 participation and supports the overall campaign target. Any funds raise help 2046 03:14:36,800 --> 03:14:44,720 offset approved project costs and increase the resources available. I also 2047 03:14:42,160 --> 03:14:48,720 supports reserving any net fundraising proceeds that remain after approved 2048 03:14:46,479 --> 03:14:53,760 project requirements have been met. That does not authorize additional spending 2049 03:14:50,960 --> 03:14:58,800 today. It protects donor supported funds for future council approved capital 2050 03:14:55,760 --> 03:15:04,399 needs at the Brits Grove Library. And I have to emphasize that when this um when 2051 03:15:01,279 --> 03:15:11,520 we were putting this together and uh uh kudos to um our clerk uh Amy Burkhart 2052 03:15:09,040 --> 03:15:15,840 because there was a a a lot of misgivings by people in the community of 2053 03:15:13,680 --> 03:15:21,120 donating any money for a specific project to the city because they were 2054 03:15:17,920 --> 03:15:25,200 afraid that once um the project was done that the city would take their money and 2055 03:15:23,439 --> 03:15:31,279 use it for whatever the city wanted to do. Uh she was pivotal in in calming 2056 03:15:28,239 --> 03:15:37,359 those fears, writing a finance uh uh finance uh sorry donation policy so that 2057 03:15:34,640 --> 03:15:41,200 people would encourage or are are going to be encouraged to invest in this 2058 03:15:39,760 --> 03:15:44,319 particular project but other projects that we've talked about within the 2059 03:15:42,960 --> 03:15:49,840 community because they want to make a donation directly to that project and 2060 03:15:47,439 --> 03:15:54,239 that's what this does as well. This does not authorize additional spending today. 2061 03:15:52,160 --> 03:15:58,800 It protects donor supported funds for future council approved capital needs at 2062 03:15:56,399 --> 03:16:03,760 the Bites Grove Library. And I want to emphasize this as well. When people, and 2063 03:16:01,520 --> 03:16:08,479 this is something that's coming up, it's been recommended by AMO. It's been 2064 03:16:05,439 --> 03:16:13,279 recommended by the FCM. Whenever you have a donation coming in for a specific 2065 03:16:10,800 --> 03:16:19,520 project, you also have to put monies aside and you can get it inclusive of 2066 03:16:16,319 --> 03:16:24,479 the donations for the management and the repair of the buildings or whatever 2067 03:16:22,399 --> 03:16:28,720 thing that you are donating because what always happens is someone will donate 2068 03:16:26,399 --> 03:16:34,160 something to us and I'll use the uh the new splash pad as a perfect example. We 2069 03:16:31,680 --> 03:16:40,239 have to maintain the upkeep of that in order for it to be a viable splash pad. 2070 03:16:37,040 --> 03:16:45,920 And if we decide that oh in five years we don't have the money to fix it then 2071 03:16:42,960 --> 03:16:52,800 it is no longer a viable splash pad and the donor is left with like what did you 2072 03:16:48,399 --> 03:16:59,760 do? So this is over uh taking this to a new another tool as Mr. Um, McGovern was 2073 03:16:57,120 --> 03:17:03,120 talking about any further funding that people want to donate to the Brights 2074 03:17:01,359 --> 03:17:08,319 Grove project will go to any improvements in that project and in the 2075 03:17:05,439 --> 03:17:12,080 building itself such as restoration, accessibility and improvements, 2076 03:17:09,840 --> 03:17:19,200 landscaping, finishing features or future lifestyle work sorry life cycle 2077 03:17:15,920 --> 03:17:23,120 work. This is a sound asset management plan. We are investing in a public 2078 03:17:21,279 --> 03:17:27,359 building that will serve the community for decades and it is responsible to 2079 03:17:25,600 --> 03:17:32,160 ensure that any surplus community contributions remain dedicated to that 2080 03:17:30,960 --> 03:17:36,800 particular project. >> Okay, councelor White and councelor 2081 03:17:33,600 --> 03:17:40,000 Dennis and then I'll call the question. >> Sorry, I was just pointing to councelor 2082 03:17:38,479 --> 03:17:44,479 Dennis. >> Actually, you know what? Um, councelor 2083 03:17:41,520 --> 03:17:48,239 Gillis did a fantastic job of uh and probably a much better job than I would 2084 03:17:46,160 --> 03:17:50,239 have done saying what I wanted to say. Thank you. 2085 03:17:48,720 --> 03:17:52,720 » Okay. Thank you, Councelor White. You have the last word and I'll call the 2086 03:17:51,279 --> 03:17:59,279 question. Okay, thank you. I'll call the question now. All those in favor? 2087 03:17:56,080 --> 03:18:04,880 Those in favor? Those opposed? Uh, everyone uh except council bro was in 2088 03:18:02,080 --> 03:18:08,239 favor. All right. The uh last or second last item is the territorial 2089 03:18:06,080 --> 03:18:13,520 acknowledgement. It is here for your consideration. 2090 03:18:10,239 --> 03:18:18,520 Council to adopt. Councelor White. Secer councelor Gillis. Councelor Burl. 2091 03:18:18,720 --> 03:18:28,399 Uh yes. Uh I understand what they're attempting to 2092 03:18:23,840 --> 03:18:33,920 do, but it as I've mentioned before, I think that the acknowledgment should 2093 03:18:32,239 --> 03:18:42,160 include all First Nations that were here before 2094 03:18:38,479 --> 03:18:49,359 and not just the ones that are mentioned here. And I don't know why we don't do 2095 03:18:44,960 --> 03:18:55,760 that because when the certainly when the first uh I think it was Leel was the 2096 03:18:52,640 --> 03:19:01,040 first white that came up this way up the St. Clair 2097 03:18:59,279 --> 03:19:07,359 first into Lake Sinclair then to the into the Slair River. 2098 03:19:04,560 --> 03:19:12,720 There were different First Nations people around than just the ones that 2099 03:19:10,239 --> 03:19:19,040 were acknowledging. And I don't think it's fair 2100 03:19:14,479 --> 03:19:23,760 to only acknowledge some and not others. So I will not be supporting this. When I 2101 03:19:22,319 --> 03:19:27,840 first brought this to council a number of years ago, the suggestion at the time 2102 03:19:25,840 --> 03:19:31,120 was that each of us would read it just like we do the rules of order to move 2103 03:19:29,120 --> 03:19:35,359 the meeting forward. I'd like to suggest that, and no one has to do this, but in 2104 03:19:33,279 --> 03:19:38,560 the future if this is adopted, that it would go to a member of council to read 2105 03:19:36,880 --> 03:19:41,439 it at the start of each meeting. And if anyone doesn't want to do it, that's 2106 03:19:39,760 --> 03:19:45,200 fine. But I think it's more meaningful than the chair each time reading it. And 2107 03:19:43,840 --> 03:19:49,040 I think that would have a very agreement with that and that's part of the motion. 2108 03:19:47,040 --> 03:19:52,640 Okay. All in favor? >> I'm I want to speak to it. Go ahead, 2109 03:19:50,720 --> 03:19:57,120 please. >> Uh thank you, Mayor Bradley. Um for the 2110 03:19:55,120 --> 03:20:01,680 record, I remain strongly opposed to the revised land acknowledgement. The legal 2111 03:19:59,439 --> 03:20:06,239 opinion does not conclude that there is no risk. In fact, it very clearly states 2112 03:20:04,319 --> 03:20:12,319 that this territorial acknowledgement could be cited in future litigation that 2113 03:20:09,279 --> 03:20:17,840 any value would ultimately determine be determined by a court that should give 2114 03:20:15,439 --> 03:20:22,560 every member on council great concern. We are being uh asked to adopt language 2115 03:20:20,640 --> 03:20:27,040 declaring that rights and relationships to these lands have never been 2116 03:20:24,720 --> 03:20:32,800 extinguished. I am not prepared to expose the city to very clearly outlined 2117 03:20:29,760 --> 03:20:37,359 potential legal uncertainty. Even beyond the legal concerns, I believe this 2118 03:20:34,560 --> 03:20:40,319 proposal is unnecessary and divisive. Council should be focused on bringing 2119 03:20:39,040 --> 03:20:44,960 people together and addressing challenges facing our communities today. 2120 03:20:42,640 --> 03:20:49,279 In my view, this is a symbolic gesture that creates division, invites 2121 03:20:47,040 --> 03:20:55,920 uncertainty, and serves little practical purpose beyond virtue signaling in and 2122 03:20:52,479 --> 03:21:02,000 is uh and this is on top of opening every resident and he and and the city 2123 03:20:59,680 --> 03:21:04,800 itself to legal risk. Council should never support this and I will certainly 2124 03:21:03,680 --> 03:21:08,720 not be. Thank you, >> Councelor White. Councelor Kelner. 2125 03:21:06,800 --> 03:21:14,080 » Uh thank you, Mayor Bradley. Uh I want to thank the uh members of the committee 2126 03:21:10,960 --> 03:21:19,600 for their deep dive uh and ongoing commitment um to providing accurate 2127 03:21:17,200 --> 03:21:24,000 historical information. Uh we have some pretty deep uh deeply rooted folks in 2128 03:21:22,399 --> 03:21:30,560 the committee and those who they have access to as well who've contributed to 2129 03:21:26,479 --> 03:21:36,479 this to ensure uh ultimate accuracy uh and clarity over the words that are 2130 03:21:33,200 --> 03:21:43,840 being presented today. Um, an extensive thank you as well to uh chair uh Brad 2131 03:21:40,160 --> 03:21:49,840 Brownley uh for his continuous efforts and work long into the uh evening hours 2132 03:21:46,800 --> 03:21:54,880 and beyond uh to bring together all of the thoughts and ideas uh into this 2133 03:21:53,359 --> 03:22:01,040 particular presentation that you're seeing today. Um 2134 03:21:57,760 --> 03:22:05,120 it's clear like there's there's zero risk. I don't know why we're rage 2135 03:22:02,720 --> 03:22:10,560 farming, but there is zero risk. This is not what it's about at all. And uh this 2136 03:22:08,880 --> 03:22:13,600 is bringing community together. I don't know what else to say. Thank you. 2137 03:22:12,319 --> 03:22:19,040 » Okay. Councelor Ker. >> Thank you. Thank you. Uh Mayor Bradley. 2138 03:22:16,560 --> 03:22:29,920 Um uh just to follow up on Councelor White's uh comments. um 2139 03:22:23,840 --> 03:22:36,319 uh council um having the capacity to um number one the the the first thing that 2140 03:22:31,680 --> 03:22:41,600 this this statement does um it's a ceremonial duty first and foremost not a 2141 03:22:39,200 --> 03:22:46,319 property property rights issue there uh we I do not believe that we have 2142 03:22:43,920 --> 03:22:53,040 entitlement as counselors or city council over um uh the land titles act 2143 03:22:50,000 --> 03:22:59,040 or anything like that. So these are explicitly understood across this 2144 03:22:54,800 --> 03:23:04,239 country as ceremonial aspects of that point to a deeper harmony that we're 2145 03:23:01,200 --> 03:23:09,760 supposed to be moving toward. Um I I think that anybody who is kind of 2146 03:23:08,080 --> 03:23:14,000 articulating that people are going to lose their properties because of this. 2147 03:23:11,680 --> 03:23:20,720 It's already been demonstrated in BC, I believe, in recent weeks or months, um 2148 03:23:17,520 --> 03:23:28,399 that uh that is not what the purpose of these um uh of these acknowledgements 2149 03:23:24,080 --> 03:23:35,120 are. And uh so I will be supporting it because I do um uh this weekend was a 2150 03:23:32,319 --> 03:23:41,040 great example being at at Omnang First Nation and seeing people just warmly 2151 03:23:38,399 --> 03:23:47,600 receive me and friends and and so on and so forth. So, um I do want to thank them 2152 03:23:44,000 --> 03:23:53,200 for their hospitality and I hope that we would uh as people in this council 2153 03:23:50,160 --> 03:23:57,680 chamber continue to steward uh that relationship in the good way that um 2154 03:23:55,600 --> 03:24:00,160 that we have the opportunity to. Thank you, 2155 03:23:58,000 --> 03:24:05,760 » Council and Councelor Dennis. I'll call the question. Record the vote. 2156 03:24:02,319 --> 03:24:12,960 » Uh yes. Uh actually, I was at the POW as well on the weekend, but the facts are 2157 03:24:08,640 --> 03:24:21,359 the facts. the the First Nations Walpo Island for sure has a land claim against 2158 03:24:17,279 --> 03:24:26,479 the Canadian half of the river bottom of the St. Clair River. 2159 03:24:23,680 --> 03:24:31,359 And the reason that exists and doesn't exist on the US side is that when the 2160 03:24:29,120 --> 03:24:38,720 treaties were measured on the British side, they 2161 03:24:34,800 --> 03:24:44,080 always measured to the W's edge. Whereas on the US side, they measured to 2162 03:24:42,319 --> 03:24:52,880 the middle of the like to the boundary line to the middle of the river. So that 2163 03:24:47,040 --> 03:24:59,600 leaves the Canadian half river bottom of the St. Clair River as being eligible 2164 03:24:57,120 --> 03:25:07,040 for a land claim and a land claim is there by the Walpo Island First Nations 2165 03:25:03,359 --> 03:25:13,200 for that. So what we're talking about uh that would that means Sarnia Harbor 2166 03:25:09,520 --> 03:25:18,720 would probably be included in that land claim. So some of these things that 2167 03:25:16,399 --> 03:25:23,040 people say are frivolous are not frivolous. They are facts. So I will not 2168 03:25:22,080 --> 03:25:25,600 be supporting this. >> Okay. Let me councelor Dennis I'll call 2169 03:25:24,880 --> 03:25:30,319 the question. >> Yeah. Um, right now in the city of 2170 03:25:27,600 --> 03:25:40,640 Toronto, they begin their meetings with three uh uh uh uh uh three uh um uh 2171 03:25:38,479 --> 03:25:47,200 claim or not claims but three uh acknowledgements and um one is an 2172 03:25:43,840 --> 03:25:51,760 indigenous one, one is uh uh African Canadian one uh and the other one is has 2173 03:25:49,920 --> 03:25:56,560 to do with people that are that are suffering from addiction. this woke 2174 03:25:54,080 --> 03:26:00,080 nonsense has to stop. And quite honestly, there was nothing wrong with 2175 03:25:58,239 --> 03:26:05,120 our land acknowledgement that we were saying before. Why even change it? This 2176 03:26:02,560 --> 03:26:09,359 is getting absolutely ridiculous and the people of Sarnia can see right through 2177 03:26:07,120 --> 03:26:14,880 it and and they're going to express their opinion in in October. Um I can I 2178 03:26:12,720 --> 03:26:18,239 can guarantee you that. So that's all I have to say. 2179 03:26:16,720 --> 03:26:23,040 » Well, there's no need for a point of order. We've heard this before. Um, all 2180 03:26:20,960 --> 03:26:27,279 those in favor and I'll record the vote. All those in favor, 2181 03:26:25,120 --> 03:26:32,399 councelor Gillis, Vanderberg, White, Bushie, myself, McRoberts, and Kilner. 2182 03:26:30,479 --> 03:26:37,760 Those opposed Earl and Councelor Dennis. Uh, the next 2183 03:26:34,960 --> 03:26:41,040 item is the last item on this is the um it's an agreement. You were aware this 2184 03:26:39,200 --> 03:26:45,680 is the negotiations with the sting to look at the operation and the sharing of 2185 03:26:42,880 --> 03:26:50,160 revenue at the uh at the passes center and looking for you to endorse this. 2186 03:26:47,439 --> 03:26:54,800 Councelor Burl seconder. All right. All in favor. Thank you. 2187 03:26:52,720 --> 03:26:59,120 Moving in. We got a couple motions here. One we already dealt with. Uh the first 2188 03:26:56,880 --> 03:27:02,960 one's from myself to you. It's um looking at the feasibility of u a tax 2189 03:27:01,760 --> 03:27:08,239 relief for deferral program for low-income seniors. And this came from a 2190 03:27:05,680 --> 03:27:13,439 senior citizen. We did look at it about a number of years ago and it didn't work 2191 03:27:10,880 --> 03:27:17,279 out being a practical uh thing to do, but I think it's worth taking a look at 2192 03:27:15,520 --> 03:27:20,319 and some communities started doing this. So, councelor Gillis is moving. 2193 03:27:18,560 --> 03:27:24,960 Councelor White seconding. Any discussion? 2194 03:27:23,040 --> 03:27:27,840 That's all. That's all because I'm, as I said before, we looked at it and it 2195 03:27:26,080 --> 03:27:30,479 didn't it wasn't very feasible. >> Councelor Dennis, 2196 03:27:29,040 --> 03:27:33,920 » I'd like to speak on it, please. >> Go ahead, please. 2197 03:27:31,760 --> 03:27:38,000 » Thank you, Mayor Bradley. Um, let me be clear. I fully support our seniors and I 2198 03:27:36,319 --> 03:27:42,720 fully support looking at ways to help our seniors who are struggling. Many are 2199 03:27:40,319 --> 03:27:47,359 are on fixed incomes and are facing real uh financial pressures and they sure do 2200 03:27:45,359 --> 03:27:52,880 uh deserve our respect and sincere consideration. The timing of this motion 2201 03:27:50,319 --> 03:27:57,120 seems a little suspect. Um if this was truly a a priority, why wasn't this 2202 03:27:54,960 --> 03:28:01,520 brought forward? Why was this brought forward in election year rather than the 2203 03:27:59,520 --> 03:28:06,880 beginning of of this term? Uh as a matter of fact, why would why didn't why 2204 03:28:03,200 --> 03:28:11,920 wasn't it introduced in uh 2009 or 2020 when Canada was in an official 2205 03:28:08,479 --> 03:28:15,359 recession? Um, I do support helping people in need, but why are we only 2206 03:28:13,680 --> 03:28:19,040 talking about one group? What about the working poor? What about young adults 2207 03:28:17,359 --> 03:28:22,640 who can't afford to leave home? What about families struggling with 2208 03:28:20,319 --> 03:28:26,720 mortgages, groceries, and utility bills? What about small businesses that are 2209 03:28:24,560 --> 03:28:30,239 barely keeping themselves open? What about residents facing serious health 2210 03:28:28,720 --> 03:28:34,800 challenges who are falling through the clock cracks? To be clear, if 2211 03:28:32,960 --> 03:28:38,960 eligibility continues to expand to everyone facing financial hardship, we 2212 03:28:36,720 --> 03:28:43,439 could quickly reach a point where an exceptionally large portion of taxpayers 2213 03:28:41,040 --> 03:28:47,680 qualify. With nearly half of households living paycheck to paycheck, the impact 2214 03:28:45,760 --> 03:28:53,520 on those left paying our taxes could be up to and over well over 50% of an 2215 03:28:51,359 --> 03:28:58,080 annual tax increase. I wish to make a friendly amendment to be fair to all 2216 03:28:55,439 --> 03:29:03,359 citizens struggling. Uh my proposed amendment is that that staff be directed 2217 03:29:00,479 --> 03:29:07,600 to expand and the the review to include the working poor residents facing 2218 03:29:05,120 --> 03:29:12,640 significant financial hardship and that includes an estimated tax burden 2219 03:29:10,160 --> 03:29:16,080 transferred to non-qualifying taxpayers. Thank you. 2220 03:29:13,520 --> 03:29:20,160 » Is there a second for the amendment? Not seeing it. I remind you this is a 2221 03:29:18,720 --> 03:29:24,319 request for report and what I'll have the office do tomorrow because I do not 2222 03:29:21,680 --> 03:29:27,760 like anyone questioning our ethics. This came from a citizen. We will not 2223 03:29:26,479 --> 03:29:31,520 identify the name, but we'll give you all the background of why this came 2224 03:29:29,680 --> 03:29:35,680 forward in the last two or three. >> I've had lots of requests from uh people 2225 03:29:33,600 --> 03:29:40,000 that you probably don't give the time a day to that are hurting, that are 2226 03:29:37,520 --> 03:29:44,560 suffering, people that you mocked during COVID that lost their businesses. I have 2227 03:29:42,399 --> 03:29:49,680 all sorts. So, I'm on the I'm on the the streets every day. I I'm not stuck in 2228 03:29:46,720 --> 03:29:52,960 the uh uh Oval Office that's squared. I'm I'm out with the real people that 2229 03:29:51,680 --> 03:29:56,160 are working. >> Well, this is unfortunate. This is one 2230 03:29:54,560 --> 03:29:59,920 of the first council terms we've had to deal with electioneering in the chamber. 2231 03:29:58,000 --> 03:30:03,760 I will call the question. I will call the question. I'm looking forward to all 2232 03:30:01,760 --> 03:30:07,920 those in favor. All those in favor >> that is passed for a report from staff. 2233 03:30:06,000 --> 03:30:11,200 It'll come back to you and to the council. If you have other motions, 2234 03:30:09,279 --> 03:30:16,800 bring them forward in the future to council. Councelor Ker, 2235 03:30:12,399 --> 03:30:23,439 » I'll I'll do it as mayor. So I I so um I think it's very important for for 2236 03:30:19,439 --> 03:30:29,840 anybody around this table um uh to remember how we go about processes 2237 03:30:27,520 --> 03:30:35,279 such as putting forward notices of motion. Um uh we've already dealt with a 2238 03:30:33,279 --> 03:30:39,680 number of items this uh today that actually help people's lives including 2239 03:30:37,600 --> 03:30:46,160 the the the Brights Grove Library project. We've talked about um bus pass 2240 03:30:42,800 --> 03:30:50,560 options uh in the past. So, uh I just want to just reiterate uh people bring 2241 03:30:48,880 --> 03:30:56,160 up motions when they think it's the appropriate time and our work as council 2242 03:30:53,840 --> 03:30:59,040 is to choose to approve that, have a discussion about it or not approve it. 2243 03:30:58,399 --> 03:31:04,560 Thank you. >> Thank you. So, that that's moved and 2244 03:31:01,439 --> 03:31:09,920 done past. All right. Um Council Bro, you have the last motion here. 2245 03:31:06,800 --> 03:31:16,640 » Uh yes. Thank you, your worship. Um yes uh as we can see we're probably facing a 2246 03:31:12,960 --> 03:31:22,479 quite a contentious set of votes this fall. So, in order to help that, I think 2247 03:31:19,680 --> 03:31:27,600 I hope I'm moving that in order to help substantiate the [clears throat] 2248 03:31:23,600 --> 03:31:33,920 integrity of the 2026 municipal election in the city of Sarnia that the city of 2249 03:31:30,080 --> 03:31:40,960 Sarnia publish the poll bypole results as soon as possible after election day. 2250 03:31:39,120 --> 03:31:44,960 I can get a secondary like to speak to it. 2251 03:31:42,080 --> 03:31:49,600 » There a second council. >> Uh, yes. I think the reason this is 2252 03:31:47,120 --> 03:32:00,399 important and I believe it can be done just by contact. My my research shows 2253 03:31:52,640 --> 03:32:05,920 that uh the firm that does our um software for the voting uh it's just one 2254 03:32:03,439 --> 03:32:10,479 of the options. Uh the reason I think it's going to be important is that 2255 03:32:08,080 --> 03:32:16,399 because we're gonna I think have a quite a u 2256 03:32:12,560 --> 03:32:22,800 contentious election this fall. The more statistics that we can publish and show 2257 03:32:20,560 --> 03:32:27,600 uh and always has been an important one is the poll bypole results. That way 2258 03:32:25,680 --> 03:32:33,120 people can actually say, "Oh yes, well at least from my poll there were votes 2259 03:32:30,800 --> 03:32:38,000 counted and we haven't missed a whole area of the city or something like 2260 03:32:35,279 --> 03:32:44,080 that." So I think this will go a long way to help substantiate the integrity 2261 03:32:41,680 --> 03:32:48,239 of our votes. >> Ask a question to the clerk. Is this 2262 03:32:45,600 --> 03:32:54,160 feasible? Is it possible? >> Um for the internet voting system, there 2263 03:32:51,120 --> 03:33:00,319 are no polls associated with that. Uh we do report poll bypole results for our 2264 03:32:56,720 --> 03:33:03,439 in-person uh voting method. So at each voting location, we have a vote 2265 03:33:01,680 --> 03:33:08,560 tabulator. At the close of voting on voting day, those those reports by 2266 03:33:06,000 --> 03:33:14,160 voting location are publicly reported. We report internet ballots cast as a 2267 03:33:11,600 --> 03:33:19,359 whole. Um but there is no such functionality within the internet voting 2268 03:33:16,399 --> 03:33:26,640 process to establish voting subdivisions and report by poll because there is no 2269 03:33:22,160 --> 03:33:33,600 such thing poll within an internet. >> I believe if you check with the people 2270 03:33:29,920 --> 03:33:38,880 who do the software it is an option. It's certainly my understanding because 2271 03:33:35,040 --> 03:33:44,160 other communities do it. So and we've done it ourselves. So 2272 03:33:42,080 --> 03:33:49,200 it's it's just one of the options that's available. Has to be because everybody 2273 03:33:46,560 --> 03:33:56,000 is recorded. That's how he the everybody is recorded. Everybody's in there. They 2274 03:33:52,239 --> 03:34:01,279 have a word and a poll. Everybody does. If you don't have a word and a poll, you 2275 03:33:57,760 --> 03:34:06,720 aren't in the list. >> So my I guess um thanks Mayor Bradley. I 2276 03:34:03,840 --> 03:34:11,840 think my big question is so number one, the internet itself is a poll. 2277 03:34:09,840 --> 03:34:17,680 Um, but it's not a geographic poll like the in person. Um, 2278 03:34:15,040 --> 03:34:23,319 so my question is whether this motion actually changes 2279 03:34:19,840 --> 03:34:23,319 anything functionally. 2280 03:34:24,080 --> 03:34:30,160 » Well, the one way to find out is to pass it and let the clerk deal with what 2281 03:34:28,960 --> 03:34:35,200 happens in other communities if it's functional. We'll find out. 2282 03:34:32,880 --> 03:34:40,080 That seems fair enough to me. All those in favor of the motion. 2283 03:34:38,160 --> 03:34:44,000 That has passed. All right. Uh, Councelor McRoberts, if you can move us 2284 03:34:41,920 --> 03:34:49,840 um through the minutes. >> I move that the minutes of May 11th, 2285 03:34:45,920 --> 03:34:54,319 2026 special meeting and May 25th, 2026 regular meeting and May 25th, 2026 2286 03:34:52,239 --> 03:35:00,399 closed meeting as printed be adopted. >> All in favor? 2287 03:34:56,720 --> 03:35:04,640 Any urgent matters? Not seeing council. >> Uh, it's not really an urgent matter. 2288 03:35:02,080 --> 03:35:08,479 Your worship is just a community happenings this weekend. And if you if 2289 03:35:06,800 --> 03:35:10,960 you don't mind if I just read a couple things in. 2290 03:35:09,439 --> 03:35:14,479 » Well, please go ahead. But I just have to say I was councils have gotten away 2291 03:35:13,040 --> 03:35:17,920 from doing that. Like I was all over the place on the weekend. So 2292 03:35:15,760 --> 03:35:21,200 » Well, I know this past weekend was pretty busy, but there there's two 2293 03:35:19,680 --> 03:35:24,080 things that come to mind. One is on Saturday the Soore event at Sarnney 2294 03:35:23,760 --> 03:35:26,000 Airport. >> Well, I see. I'm sorry. You're talking 2295 03:35:25,120 --> 03:35:28,479 about future events. >> Yeah, future event. And the other event 2296 03:35:27,600 --> 03:35:30,720 the other >> You're going to give us an accounting of 2297 03:35:29,760 --> 03:35:34,434 your weekend. >> No, no, no. You don't know what you 2298 03:35:33,359 --> 03:35:39,040 don't want to know where I was. [laughter] 2299 03:35:35,359 --> 03:35:44,960 In any event, uh on Sunday the 28th of June at Canetara Park in the Central 2300 03:35:42,000 --> 03:35:49,600 Park, um we have the annual cruise in the park that's hosted by the Sarna 2301 03:35:46,880 --> 03:35:54,479 Street Machines. And I just want the public to be aware it's a it's a it's a 2302 03:35:51,680 --> 03:36:00,000 wide openen event. Uh entrance is by way of donation. It's the 21st year that the 2303 03:35:57,200 --> 03:36:05,920 Sarnia Street Machines is hosting this event um in support of Pathways and we 2304 03:36:03,359 --> 03:36:10,560 know how goods Pathways is. And I just want to be aware of I have to read it. 2305 03:36:09,040 --> 03:36:14,319 $350,000 to date in 21 years has been raised by 2306 03:36:12,720 --> 03:36:20,399 the Sing Street Machines in support of Pathways. So if you can folks uh please 2307 03:36:17,840 --> 03:36:23,760 come out on Sunday, enjoy the day and donate. 2308 03:36:21,200 --> 03:36:29,359 » Thank you. Councelor McRoberts, if you can move us to Sorry, Councelor Keller. 2309 03:36:26,479 --> 03:36:37,439 » Uh, thanks, Mayor Bradley. Uh, just to to um follow this up on uh in in July 2310 03:36:35,760 --> 03:36:43,279 2026, and for some reason, I don't have the exact date. Uh we have that uh uh 2311 03:36:41,439 --> 03:36:48,000 Justin Barasa Memorial Tennis Tournament. Um 2312 03:36:46,000 --> 03:36:54,880 uh you can find out the date online. I I I can't remember. The other thing I also 2313 03:36:50,319 --> 03:37:02,239 wanted to do was just um uh celebrate our our um our economic development 2314 03:36:57,840 --> 03:37:08,239 coordinator, Kelly uh Provost on uh her achievement uh her achieving the 2315 03:37:06,160 --> 03:37:13,520 highest cumulative grade for this past year upcoming completing the AMCTO 2316 03:37:11,520 --> 03:37:21,120 Executive Diploma of Municipal Management. That has made our our city 2317 03:37:16,960 --> 03:37:26,319 incredibly proud. Um, the AMCTO are the managers and clerks. Um, I can't 2318 03:37:24,000 --> 03:37:32,960 remember what it totally exactly uh stands for, but it's our our municipally 2319 03:37:28,800 --> 03:37:37,920 trained uh staff and leadership. Uh, so uh just huge congratulations uh to Miss 2320 03:37:35,359 --> 03:37:43,279 Provost. And lastly, the the last thing I had a question about just was I know 2321 03:37:41,120 --> 03:37:47,439 in some of this stuff we've seen the words fair wage policy and I didn't want 2322 03:37:45,520 --> 03:37:53,200 to connect it with any of the the proposals, but um it did come up just a 2323 03:37:51,120 --> 03:37:59,439 question on when we're going to update those policies 2324 03:37:55,040 --> 03:38:04,880 um uh how contractors and subcontractors work and that sort of thing. I you know 2325 03:38:02,560 --> 03:38:08,239 there were just questions about that came into my 2326 03:38:06,800 --> 03:38:10,800 » Mr. Stockdale. Could you get back to us on that or can you speak to it right? 2327 03:38:09,439 --> 03:38:14,239 » Yep. Through your worship. It's intended to be reviewed this year. We should be 2328 03:38:12,160 --> 03:38:17,840 able to get back around Q4. The work's underway in Q3. 2329 03:38:15,680 --> 03:38:22,399 » Good. Good to hear that. Councelor McRoberts, move us forward. 2330 03:38:19,920 --> 03:38:27,200 » I move that items A to C listed in the consent agenda be introduced. 2331 03:38:24,080 --> 03:38:31,439 » All those in favor? I move that items A to C listed in the consent agenda as 2332 03:38:29,120 --> 03:38:35,439 recommended or approved by this council be adopted. 2333 03:38:32,080 --> 03:38:39,359 » All those in favor? That's done. >> I move that bylaws 1 through eight is 2334 03:38:37,359 --> 03:38:42,239 printed be introduced and taken and read for the first and second and third time 2335 03:38:41,279 --> 03:38:45,680 and finally passed. >> All in favor? 2336 03:38:43,760 --> 03:38:49,600 » I move that Sarna City Council adjourned to its next regular meeting to be held 2337 03:38:47,279 --> 03:38:54,680 on July 20th, 2026. >> Thank you very much. All in favor? 2338 03:38:50,800 --> 03:38:54,680 Unanimous. Thank you everyone.