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All right, we're going to get things rolling here. Good

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morning, everyone. We're a little delayed here this morning. There's

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some morning going on in the back of the room

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if the top blades lost last night to Musha. But

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we're okay. So I'm going to welcome everybody to our

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PDTs meeting this morning. It's Wednesday, May 8 May 8

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at 09:30 a.m. Check, check.

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How do I sound? We're good. No, I still hear

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knuckle. Check. That might be coming

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from the teams.

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How do we know? How do we know? No.

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Last night. Get right back.

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Are we good? Yeah, okay. All right, so I'll get

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everybody's attention. In the crowd and the thousands who are

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watching that we will get back into this meeting. So

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again, I'd like to welcome everybody to today's. Policy planning,

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development and community services meeting. And before we get started,

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just make a quick land acknowledgment that we are here

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on the homeland of the meaty and the ancestral lands

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of many first nations, including the Cree, the Dene, Soto,

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Dakota and Lakoto's. People. And before we get into the

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meeting, I'll just do a quick roll call. We do

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have all committee members present. Councilors, Jeff. Jeffries councilors loan.

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Councilors block his worship and councilor Goff, and we do.

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Have councilor Dubois joining us online here today as well.

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And so we will call the meeting to order just

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some housekeeping that we're going. To have to do here

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on the agenda. On a request to speak, so I'm

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just going to pull this up on my list. So

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7.2.4 our speakers not in attendance but had a video

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unfortunately just due to the precedents that we have in

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committee meetings. We don't allow that unless the speaker is

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available for questions. So, Ms. Bride, if we can contact

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the speaker and just let them know that this will

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be going to council, and they'll have that opportunity to

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speak to council. Yes, I'll. Do that. So then 7.2.4

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would go back to the normal agenda. It won't. Be

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bumped up with our rest of our speakers like we

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normally do in past. So one minor emission on the

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agenda. So with that change, let's ask for someone to

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approve the agenda. Councilor block. So I'll call a question.

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Any opposed? Not carries. So we will go to our

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speakers list. And our first speaker. So before we get

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into that 6.1.1, Miss Lacroix. Do you want to introduce

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that? Sorry. Any conflict of interest, I should call first.

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Not seeing any carry on. Thank you, Mr. Chair. No

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formal introduction on this letter, I see. The speaker is

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available. And again. It's just regarding. Pleasant Hill area and

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degradation of the neighborhood and some comments from the speaker.

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Great. So I will go on and see if our

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speaker can hear us. I'm going to try the name

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here, and if I get it wrong, I apologize, but.

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If you could just introduce yourself, make sure we get

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this right. But fe cout so Giannis. Effie, can you

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hear me? Can you hear me? Yeah, we can hear

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you. That's very good act. It's very close. So feel

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free to go ahead anytime you're ready. My name is

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Afghatanis. I'm the owner and operator of Pleasant hill dental.

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I've been in the area for over 30 years. And.

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The last. Seven years, I've noticed a tremendous change in

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the area, in that specific block, basically a degradation of

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the area. And especially since December. I'm very concerned. And

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very disgruntled at what has been occurring and very concerned

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about my safety and people's safety in the area. In

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December, I started noticing. I guess, for lack of a

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better word. Encampment. Taking up the entire sidewalk in front.

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Of PHR. So I reached out to Randy Shabilo at

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Riversdale bed. He was kind enough to actually call me

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back, actually, boxing Day, and we had a very lengthy

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conversation up until then, I had never really voiced my

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concern. Concerns. And maybe I should have, because I've talked

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to various people in the Riversdale area. I've talked to

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people. Personally. And they've always said to me, you know

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what, if you have to start speaking out because it's

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not going to get any better. And so with that

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conversation with Randy, It actually almost propelled me to start

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talking more and more about it. So he invited me

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to come to the Riversville bid board meeting on January

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24, and at that meeting, I had a conversation with

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the board, and I did not realize. How most of

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the board members. Were somewhat oblivious to what was really

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happening in that 1500 block of 20th Street. I'm really

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concerned. In. That. What I have to deal with day

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in, day out. I don't think anyone else in the

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city has to deal with, and it's. Getting to be

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overbearing. I'm going to state some specific concerns that I

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have to deal with, and I'm going to actually ask

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questions. Not that they have to be answered, but just

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for thinking purposes to counsel and to people in this

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meeting. When I get to work. I have people sitting

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in my doorway many times. A couple of years ago.

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I got to work early in the morning to pick

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up some stuff. From my downtown office. I operate two

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offices. I asked the person to leave. She would not

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leave. I actually ended up getting assaulted. I called the

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police. And they have a report on that. I have

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to come to my office many times. Where? Someone's at

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my doorway. They're passed out, and I have had to

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call. The police numerous times to move those people. Most

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of the time, people will leave. Not quickly, though. But

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there are times I do have to call the police

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to move those people along. Sometimes I have to wait,

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and I end up having to delay my appointments because

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I can't get into my office and my patients can't.

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Get into the office. I many times have to come

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daily. Come to my office and there's garbage all over.

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In front of my property. The garbage is coming. From

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people being fed, and I do not have a problem

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with people being fed. That is not my problem. That

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is not what I'm voicing my concern about. I'm a

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very philanthropic person, if you know me, who I am.

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I'm very philanthropic. I do a lot of donating and

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help a lot of organizations, especially youth organizations. But my

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concern is that when people are being fed from PHR.

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Or the Saturn Health Community clinic. Those people come over,

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they sit on my property, eat and leave. Their garbage

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there. If PHR and the Saskin Community clinic do not

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have the facilities to properly feed and take care of

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these people and take care of the garbage, then why

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do I end up being the garbage ground. How would

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you feel if your neighbors were having people over? They

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did not have the facility or the placement for those

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people to sit down and eat. So those people came

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and sat on your yard, ate and left all their

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garbage fare. I don't think anyone in that room would

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appreciate that. And I have to deal with that on

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a daily basis. There's many times I've come to my

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office and I've had feces. In front of my doorway.

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If this encounter continues to happen with dispositively Phi, why

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do they not have bathroom? Facilities for those people. Why

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do the city continue to allow encampments to occur in

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front of PHr? I have a photo from last night

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where? That sidewalk is entirely filled with people. People, shopping

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carts, belongings. That is an infringement upon someone's safety. You

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have 30 seconds left. Effie I'm. Concerned about my safety.

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I'm considering my staff safety. Why did the city allow.

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The credit union to leave. Why did they not work

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with the credit union to somehow figure out a solution

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to allow them to stay. I feel the government level

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of governments enable this behavior within this community. I can

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go on for a few more minutes, but I can't.

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But when I have. Comments to be saying, oh, what

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do you expect? This is 20th street. This is skid

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row. That to me is an attitude that's developed because

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of the way. Sorry, iphy to cut you off. Your

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five minutes is up there. I understand. I think my

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point is being taken. I hope. Yeah. You do have

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a question, though. So I'll just keep you on the

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line there, if you don't mind, and. Council golf Councilor

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Goff has a question for you. Thank you, Chair Davies.

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And hi, Dr. Katsgonis. Thanks for being here. There's a

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collaborative group that includes a number of civic agencies, including

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both Sastoon police and Sastoon Fire department who are working

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with partners in the area to best understand the challenges

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and gaps in the area and work towards collaborative solutions.

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They've been doing some consultations already. And my question to

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you is, would you be open to meeting with a

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member of that team? To share some of your observations.

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And some of the changes that you've seen. Miss Goff,

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I've had numerous meetings and conversations with police. You know

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what the police have been so helpful. They come in

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and they make sure that we're doing fine in fact,

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two weeks ago, they stopped in on a Saturday. They

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knocked on the door and asked how we're doing. They

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are so helpful. I have no wrong words to say

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about our police. They know me. They know my concerns.

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I don't think I have to have another meeting. With

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them because I've had so many conversations with them. I've

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had so many. Conversations with Randy Shabaido. Randy has passed

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on my concerns to the police. So I do think

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another meeting is going to help. I think the city

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has to start doing something. I can tell you my

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opinion of what needs. Okay, I think I've heard your

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answer to my question. The folks who are involved in

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responding to these issues feel the need for collaborative conversation,

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and so I think I've heard that you're not interested

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in engaging with that collaborative conversation. Is that right? Ms.

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Golf? Please don't misinterpret what I've said, I've had numerous

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conversations with the police. How much more do I have

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to state? In order for them to understand. What's going

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on? I've had numerous conversations with them. I'm not wanting

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not to collaborate. Please do. Not misunderstand. And don't twist

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my words around. I've had many conversations. With the police.

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They know what the concerns are. I can have another

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meeting with them, but they know my concerns. I'm not

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sure how many more meetings I have to have with

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people. For them to understand. The concerns. All you need

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to do is drive by one to understand what the

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concerns are. I will be there if they want me

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to be there, but I cannot be there constantly for

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collaborative meetings that are going to be the same, the

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same thing over and over again that are not. Going

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to move things forward. I will collaborate, definitely. But please

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listen to what I'm saying. I have spoken to the

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police. People many times. Okay, thank you. I don't see

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any other questions for you and any comments. Not seeing

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any. Do I have someone willing to receive his information,

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someone to move that? Anyone. His worship. I'll call the

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question. Anyone opposed? Not carries. Moving on. 6.1.2. Mr. Croix,

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or any background you want to open. With that prior

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to get to that. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So,

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again, just upon receiving this, letter to the committee. The

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team in planning and development was able to dig into

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this file just a bit, and again, this is about

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a name that was assigned to the Lakewood suburban center

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when it was starting. To be built out back in

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the late 1990s. And. It was previously raised as a

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flag in the spelling. The naming advisory committee received that

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request back. Almost two decades ago now, in 2023, And

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had a determination that. They would include a historic note

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to the record, but the sign was not changed at

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that particular time. There are currently more than 650 dwelling

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units. Addressed to Paula Tanko. Lane just in doing a

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quick search, so. It would involve some undertaking related to

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any decision to make a change to the name. So

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perhaps the civic naming advisory committee might have an opportunity

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to re review this situation and consider some direction. Great.

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And so our speaker for that is Nina Corlic. Is

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Nina here? Nothing. Virtually, I don't think either.

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Okay. I'm not seeing. Ena. So we can do one

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of two things. Whatever committee wishes, we could put a

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motion back to. Sum this if someone's willing councilor law.

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Sorry. No worries. I was just going to ask what

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we could do with this in the absence. Of the

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speaker, but yeah. I think. Is it procedurally useful to

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refer this to the naming committee or. Is best left

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at the administrative level. I think this is something the

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naming committee should probably become. Aware of. I guess I'd

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be looking for some guidance from administration about the path

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that we should. Follow on this issue. Yeah. Thank you.

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Just conferring with my colleague here at city clerk. Assistant

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city clerk. The committee can have this referred to administration

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to connect back with the civic naming committee or it

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can be just referred directly to the civic naming committee,

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and at that meeting, the administration can provide some of

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this background directly to the committee. Okay, I would make

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that motion. Just to clarify. Are you making the motion

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to refer to the amend to report to the civic

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00:28:02,153 --> 00:28:05,548
naming committee or. Just referring the item directly to the

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00:28:05,553 --> 00:28:10,118
civic naming committee. I was going to make the second

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00:28:10,603 --> 00:28:20,254
motion. Because I think that's more streamlined, but. If I'm

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00:28:20,299 --> 00:28:23,894
guessing incorrectly, please feel free to intervene. That would be

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00:28:24,219 --> 00:28:28,345
appropriate. Okay. We have the motion on the floor, so

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00:28:28,430 --> 00:28:32,960
open up for questions. Any questions on the motion? Not

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00:28:33,045 --> 00:28:38,724
seeing any comments. Let's move by Councilor Lowen. I'll call

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00:28:38,969 --> 00:28:43,292
the question. Any opposed? That carries. Moving on to our

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00:28:43,657 --> 00:28:46,332
next speaker. And before we get to that 7.2.3 the

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housing accelerator fund incentive is Mr. Croix. Yeah. Thank you.

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00:28:50,537 --> 00:28:53,692
Ms. Leslie Anderson, director of planning and development is here

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00:28:53,737 --> 00:29:02,517
to introduce this report. Great. Thank you. And good morning,

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00:29:02,962 --> 00:29:10,451
committee members. Leslie Anderson, director of planning and development. We

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do have a PowerPoint, so I'll just give that 1

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00:29:12,736 --> 00:29:21,403
second. Great. Thank you. So this report today is presenting

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00:29:21,688 --> 00:29:25,043
a recommended approach to incentives using the housing accelerator fund.

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00:29:26,286 --> 00:29:30,041
Dollars. And as a reminder, we have 41.35 million in

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00:29:30,806 --> 00:29:35,321
funding under this incentive program from. The federal government, and

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00:29:35,326 --> 00:29:40,551
so. We are recommending a use of those funds. For

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00:29:40,916 --> 00:29:44,431
development incentives. We do need to meet the timelines of

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00:29:44,516 --> 00:29:47,111
this program, and so that does dictate some of the

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00:29:47,156 --> 00:29:51,356
activities. Next slide, please. Through this incentive program, we are

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00:29:51,441 --> 00:29:54,996
proposing to use $35 million in total from this pot

262
00:29:55,761 --> 00:30:03,007
to support development incentives. In general, our criteria for the

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00:30:03,292 --> 00:30:06,567
program will include the timelines for the delivery of units.

264
00:30:07,745 --> 00:30:10,100
A demonstration of the capacity, the quality of the site

265
00:30:10,225 --> 00:30:14,540
development and architecture for these new units. The eligible capital

266
00:30:14,585 --> 00:30:18,973
costs that would fall or be associated with these. And

267
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also consideration of the size, the type of unit, the

268
00:30:22,578 --> 00:30:26,213
accessibility, and the level of affordability. For the units. These

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00:30:26,578 --> 00:30:29,173
would be the general criteria that we'd be applying across

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00:30:29,578 --> 00:30:33,312
these programs. Next slide, please. Our first package would be

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focused on affordable housing units. These would be housing units

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00:30:37,917 --> 00:30:41,152
that are affordable. To low income households with incomes below

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00:30:41,757 --> 00:30:45,952
the Saskatchewan household income maximums, which are referred to as

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the shims while spending no more than 30% of their

275
00:30:49,517 --> 00:30:54,186
income on housing. And this. Aligns with our innovative housing

276
00:30:54,231 --> 00:30:58,412
incentives policy. We are recommending this based on the housing

277
00:30:58,697 --> 00:31:01,932
needs assessment and other data sources, as we recognize that

278
00:31:02,177 --> 00:31:04,492
there is a gap in the community where a funding

279
00:31:04,817 --> 00:31:07,612
allocation of this type can help support development of new,

280
00:31:07,897 --> 00:31:11,882
affordable units. This contribution would be used to leverage funding

281
00:31:12,527 --> 00:31:16,842
from provincial and federal programs, and we've recognized that this

282
00:31:16,887 --> 00:31:21,553
suggested funding alone would not produce new units. Without other

283
00:31:21,598 --> 00:31:25,072
levels coming to the table. Our funding can then be

284
00:31:25,397 --> 00:31:30,672
leveraged to achieve that collaborative effort. We also recognize that

285
00:31:30,997 --> 00:31:37,115
our nonprofit affordable housing providers need time. To consolidate funding

286
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,555
programs across the various levels of governments and to put

287
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,035
together a funding package for new units. And so moving

288
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,075
forward with this, as our first call would be, would

289
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,762
give them that. Additional time to do that work. This

290
00:31:51,087 --> 00:31:55,522
stream is where we are recommending the most focus. So

291
00:31:55,887 --> 00:31:57,922
you will see that there is a per door grant

292
00:31:58,607 --> 00:32:01,362
as well as a building and development. Permit fee, rebate

293
00:32:01,687 --> 00:32:06,017
and a five year incremental tax abatement. For these projects.

294
00:32:06,062 --> 00:32:08,377
The tax statement, of course, is subject to city council

295
00:32:08,702 --> 00:32:14,353
approval. We understand. For the affordable units to be delivered,

296
00:32:14,598 --> 00:32:17,473
that every dollar counts, and in order to provide those

297
00:32:17,838 --> 00:32:21,873
rental rates that are significantly below market. The social housing

298
00:32:22,158 --> 00:32:25,753
projects really require a significant additional upfront capital and equity

299
00:32:26,118 --> 00:32:29,713
from partners to enable that construction. So this is where

300
00:32:30,438 --> 00:32:32,810
we have recommended putting a lot of focus. Through this

301
00:32:32,855 --> 00:32:37,169
program. Next slide, please. In terms of where our focus

302
00:32:37,574 --> 00:32:40,249
is throughout this program. It's within this area that we've

303
00:32:40,534 --> 00:32:48,715
circled on the housing continuum. So, moving from transitional housing

304
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,588
units up to that subsidized market rent. We're looking in

305
00:32:52,633 --> 00:32:54,868
this realm to see a gain in the total number

306
00:32:55,193 --> 00:32:59,647
of units across. This spectrum. Next slide, please. Our next

307
00:32:59,732 --> 00:33:02,327
program would be to use the funds to support additional

308
00:33:02,652 --> 00:33:05,927
rental development in the downtown and the quarter growth areas.

309
00:33:06,692 --> 00:33:09,407
These have been and will continue to be focus areas

310
00:33:09,452 --> 00:33:12,087
for the city to increase development and to support other

311
00:33:12,492 --> 00:33:19,669
goals of the city. These developments must be new multiple

312
00:33:19,954 --> 00:33:22,309
unit rental housing with at least five units or more

313
00:33:22,674 --> 00:33:25,429
in the development. The units do not have to meet

314
00:33:25,754 --> 00:33:30,069
the affordable requirements, although we will ask for the anticipated

315
00:33:30,194 --> 00:33:31,989
cost of rent for these units as part of our

316
00:33:32,354 --> 00:33:36,993
evaluation. Mixed market rental units, including both market and affordable

317
00:33:37,318 --> 00:33:41,753
units, would be eligible. The affordable units would be eligible

318
00:33:41,798 --> 00:33:44,913
for the affordable amounts, and the market would be eligible

319
00:33:45,278 --> 00:33:48,921
for this. Rental housing priority. So that would be for

320
00:33:48,966 --> 00:33:52,521
the rental housing market. Rental would be $10,000 per door.

321
00:33:53,246 --> 00:33:55,732
And. We will be again looking at the building and

322
00:33:55,817 --> 00:33:59,569
development permit fee. Rebate up to $1,500. Per door. Next

323
00:33:59,694 --> 00:34:03,863
slide, please. The next piece is related to the city

324
00:34:04,468 --> 00:34:06,903
on land and the incentives to be associated with that.

325
00:34:07,588 --> 00:34:09,943
Further information on the city owned land options will be

326
00:34:10,228 --> 00:34:13,463
forthcoming in a separate report and direction from council will

327
00:34:13,748 --> 00:34:16,103
be required for the approach to sale or lease through

328
00:34:16,148 --> 00:34:24,036
that report. However, we're proposing that the incentives package associated

329
00:34:24,361 --> 00:34:27,534
with those parcels would have a higher dollar. Value. As

330
00:34:27,579 --> 00:34:31,094
we will be making additional requests for those developments in

331
00:34:31,139 --> 00:34:34,604
terms of. What we are looking for, which might include

332
00:34:34,969 --> 00:34:39,084
target populations, the level of affordability, the number of units.

333
00:34:40,323 --> 00:34:44,020
The site design and other aspects. So bringing additional dollars

334
00:34:44,425 --> 00:34:48,086
to the table. To ensure. We can meet multiple goals

335
00:34:48,451 --> 00:34:51,597
on these sites. We are looking to stretch the dollars

336
00:34:52,282 --> 00:34:54,677
as much as possible to achieve the greatest outcomes we

337
00:34:54,682 --> 00:34:59,846
can. With each of these projects. Next slide, please. In

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00:34:59,891 --> 00:35:04,766
terms of process, we receive our housing accelerator funding on

339
00:35:04,811 --> 00:35:08,166
an annual basis, so we're preparing to issue. Call for

340
00:35:08,251 --> 00:35:10,966
proposals on an annual basis to line up with this.

341
00:35:12,727 --> 00:35:15,562
We're also working with our other counterparts from federal and

342
00:35:15,607 --> 00:35:17,802
provincial governments to try to align as much as possible

343
00:35:18,207 --> 00:35:23,136
on these funding calls. In 2024. We already have our

344
00:35:23,221 --> 00:35:26,336
first allocation of dollars, so we would pursue a call

345
00:35:26,701 --> 00:35:30,722
for proposals following approval of this report. Based on the

346
00:35:30,727 --> 00:35:33,282
results of that call, we may issue a second call

347
00:35:33,367 --> 00:35:37,185
again later in 2024. These two calls would be focused

348
00:35:37,470 --> 00:35:41,731
on affordable housing. We would then move to a 2025

349
00:35:42,096 --> 00:35:45,731
call for proposals looking at the priority growth areas and

350
00:35:46,016 --> 00:35:49,251
again, that priority growth area can also include affordable units,

351
00:35:50,096 --> 00:35:56,446
depending. On. The proposals we receive. In 2026. We do

352
00:35:56,811 --> 00:35:59,966
anticipate determining what that call would be based on the

353
00:36:00,011 --> 00:36:02,646
results. We've seen through the earlier calls as well as

354
00:36:03,011 --> 00:36:06,206
if we have funding available at that time based on

355
00:36:06,451 --> 00:36:09,752
the number of units we've already committed to. At the

356
00:36:09,797 --> 00:36:11,952
bottom. You can see as well that we have city

357
00:36:12,357 --> 00:36:16,262
owned land on its own timeline. And that would be

358
00:36:16,587 --> 00:36:21,182
determined by the site specific requirements dependent on those sites

359
00:36:21,507 --> 00:36:24,102
and the steps required. For each of those sites. Some

360
00:36:24,107 --> 00:36:26,342
of the sites that we have discussed are not fully

361
00:36:26,387 --> 00:36:28,662
development ready. At this time and require a number of

362
00:36:28,987 --> 00:36:32,022
steps before they'd be ready for release, so. That would

363
00:36:32,067 --> 00:36:35,778
be operating on its own timeline. I'd also just like

364
00:36:35,823 --> 00:36:38,458
to share a few reminders on some of the elements

365
00:36:38,823 --> 00:36:46,632
of the overall program and the requirements we have. The

366
00:36:46,677 --> 00:36:49,872
goal of the program is the creation of new units.

367
00:36:51,049 --> 00:36:54,204
Our performance and our funding, which is tied to our

368
00:36:54,609 --> 00:36:59,594
performance, is tied to producing new units. We can spend

369
00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:03,114
funding on a number of other things, including renovation of

370
00:37:03,159 --> 00:37:07,154
existing units. However, it doesn't help us meet our required

371
00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:11,870
targets. And it also doesn't help us expand the total

372
00:37:12,235 --> 00:37:16,299
number of affordable units in our community. Our total funding

373
00:37:16,664 --> 00:37:22,560
allocation, the 41.325 million. Also includes a consideration of a

374
00:37:22,845 --> 00:37:26,120
top up for affordable housing units, so there was additional

375
00:37:26,805 --> 00:37:30,920
dollars allocated for affordable housing units through this program. So

376
00:37:30,925 --> 00:37:32,720
we have to keep that in mind as we move

377
00:37:33,085 --> 00:37:38,581
forward. We realize that there is a desire. For assistance

378
00:37:38,946 --> 00:37:42,342
to develop new market rental units as well. And also

379
00:37:42,427 --> 00:37:45,502
entry level ownership. And these are important parts of the

380
00:37:45,787 --> 00:37:50,144
housing continuum. We see that the focus of our wide

381
00:37:50,429 --> 00:37:53,624
range of zoning bylaw amendments that are being pursued help

382
00:37:54,309 --> 00:37:58,024
in this market development spectrum and across the continuum. So

383
00:37:58,349 --> 00:38:01,144
that will encourage the creation of more types of housing

384
00:38:01,789 --> 00:38:03,624
in more areas that will meet the needs of more

385
00:38:03,749 --> 00:38:08,184
households. Our recommended approach with the incentives program is to

386
00:38:08,509 --> 00:38:11,264
target the investments to support the housing needs of our

387
00:38:11,549 --> 00:38:15,664
lower income community members. As the program progresses, we will

388
00:38:15,989 --> 00:38:19,064
evaluate the results and can report back. If we need

389
00:38:19,109 --> 00:38:22,711
to adjust. Where we are targeting the incentives. With that,

390
00:38:23,076 --> 00:38:26,815
I can take any questions from committee. Thanks, Ms. Anderson.

391
00:38:26,860 --> 00:38:28,855
So we can do one of two things. Did you

392
00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:32,799
want to hear the speakers? First or ask questions. We'll

393
00:38:32,804 --> 00:38:34,319
go into speakers, and then we might call you back

394
00:38:34,524 --> 00:38:37,119
to the podium, if that's. Okay. Thank you. All right,

395
00:38:37,284 --> 00:38:41,916
our first speaker, Jason Merkerty, welcome to the podium. As

396
00:38:42,001 --> 00:38:43,436
you might have heard before, and I know you've been

397
00:38:43,681 --> 00:38:46,876
to council here before five. Minutes is all you're going

398
00:38:46,881 --> 00:38:48,756
to have for today. After that, we're going to drag

399
00:38:49,001 --> 00:38:50,796
you out of here if you go any further. I'm

400
00:38:50,801 --> 00:38:54,762
just kidding. You'll hear a big screech. So I'll give

401
00:38:54,767 --> 00:38:56,602
you a minute's notice when you hit. Five minutes, just

402
00:38:56,887 --> 00:38:59,162
so. You're aware. Sounds good. Feel free to introduce yourself

403
00:38:59,527 --> 00:39:01,322
and go anytime. Yeah. Thank you for having me. My

404
00:39:01,367 --> 00:39:03,962
name is Jason Merker. I'm currently the acting director of

405
00:39:04,007 --> 00:39:07,642
programs and services for Mat Nation, Saskatchewan. Although my normal

406
00:39:07,647 --> 00:39:12,095
job as director of social infrastructure. That includes housing and

407
00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:16,944
homelessness. And so many of you know me, I think

408
00:39:17,549 --> 00:39:19,944
I'm in a unique position on the speaker's list as

409
00:39:19,989 --> 00:39:22,904
I have been in the CBO role, I've been in

410
00:39:22,909 --> 00:39:25,024
a funder role, and now I'm in a government and

411
00:39:25,109 --> 00:39:27,904
a funder role, so. I understand the complexity of all

412
00:39:28,189 --> 00:39:31,964
the stakeholders involved. In the housing accelerator fund, and I

413
00:39:32,249 --> 00:39:35,856
just want to say that. This is a good investment

414
00:39:36,501 --> 00:39:39,813
and a good idea for the city to do. And

415
00:39:39,898 --> 00:39:41,773
I understand there's some back and forth about the different

416
00:39:42,098 --> 00:39:46,933
funding levels, but the reality is social housing and low

417
00:39:46,978 --> 00:39:49,986
income housing. Is a solid investment. I was at the

418
00:39:50,071 --> 00:39:55,004
Chra conference. About a month ago, and the guest speaker

419
00:39:55,049 --> 00:40:00,567
was Jeff Rubins. Who's a renowned canadian economist and. He

420
00:40:00,652 --> 00:40:03,807
said that the best investment a government can make over

421
00:40:04,132 --> 00:40:07,607
the next 20 years is in affordable housing. And so

422
00:40:07,972 --> 00:40:12,047
I really want to reiterate that this. Is a solid

423
00:40:12,092 --> 00:40:14,327
idea, and I think based off the level of support

424
00:40:14,692 --> 00:40:17,367
that we're going to see from ourselves as an indigenous

425
00:40:17,412 --> 00:40:21,327
government and as a funder and CBos that the sector

426
00:40:21,372 --> 00:40:23,887
really wants to see this happen because there's not a

427
00:40:23,892 --> 00:40:27,812
lot of. Opportunities for the CBO sector to acquire money.

428
00:40:28,537 --> 00:40:31,252
And so this housing accelerator fund will help go a

429
00:40:31,257 --> 00:40:34,646
long way. And I know with the debates around the

430
00:40:34,691 --> 00:40:38,773
different funding levels, The different funding levels will get brought

431
00:40:39,138 --> 00:40:44,135
up throughout the different speakers. But no formula is perfect.

432
00:40:45,129 --> 00:40:48,204
I think this one is solid, and specifically because the

433
00:40:48,289 --> 00:40:50,404
timelines are so tight and, you know, I was at

434
00:40:50,449 --> 00:40:52,764
the Blades game last night and I saw an advertisement

435
00:40:53,129 --> 00:40:56,324
on the screen for the downtown arena and the slogan

436
00:40:56,649 --> 00:40:59,364
that they talked about was punching above your weight, and

437
00:40:59,729 --> 00:41:02,964
that's something that I think cbos are very good at,

438
00:41:03,249 --> 00:41:06,644
whether they're indigenous cbos or indigenous. Governments or just your

439
00:41:06,689 --> 00:41:11,270
average community based organization? When we're looking at the level

440
00:41:11,355 --> 00:41:16,160
of investment, yes, we do need stacking. But from the

441
00:41:16,205 --> 00:41:18,560
Mat government perspective, we have been asked a number of

442
00:41:18,925 --> 00:41:25,803
times. To invest in various communities for social housing. And

443
00:41:26,208 --> 00:41:28,683
our thought process, especially around the bigger communities like Regina,

444
00:41:28,968 --> 00:41:31,363
Pa. Saskatoon is what does the city bring into the

445
00:41:31,688 --> 00:41:34,323
table. Well, now it feels like the city is actually

446
00:41:34,368 --> 00:41:36,083
bringing something to the table. So that we can open

447
00:41:36,168 --> 00:41:39,909
up discussions with our stakeholders. To figure out how we

448
00:41:39,914 --> 00:41:44,638
can make money available to various projects. With that. I

449
00:41:44,683 --> 00:41:46,078
don't really want to go on too long because I

450
00:41:46,123 --> 00:41:48,678
know the speaker's. List is, like, 30 deep for this

451
00:41:48,763 --> 00:41:55,082
one item. But. On the various levels that are available,

452
00:41:55,247 --> 00:41:59,482
both in the corridor, both on the 27k for the

453
00:41:59,527 --> 00:42:02,282
affordable housing and even on the city owned land. I

454
00:42:02,287 --> 00:42:05,242
think these are positive steps to take. I also think

455
00:42:05,287 --> 00:42:09,282
it's great that the focus is around community based organizations

456
00:42:09,567 --> 00:42:14,480
and indigenous organizations and governments. When we're talking about truth

457
00:42:14,525 --> 00:42:17,680
and reconciliation, we can have all the land acknowledgments. We

458
00:42:17,725 --> 00:42:21,045
want. But money talks, and I think this is going

459
00:42:21,050 --> 00:42:23,765
to go a long way to help serve the indigenous

460
00:42:24,130 --> 00:42:30,456
population. In Saskatchewan and Saskatoon specifically. No matter. Which CBO

461
00:42:31,141 --> 00:42:34,736
gets the funding, but there's some projects, like at Hart

462
00:42:34,781 --> 00:42:36,536
Road, that are. Ready to roll on this money would

463
00:42:36,581 --> 00:42:40,799
go a long way for those organizations, and quickly. So

464
00:42:41,164 --> 00:42:44,908
I just can't stress. The timelines are tight. If. This,

465
00:42:44,993 --> 00:42:48,108
for some reason, doesn't move ahead and goes back. I

466
00:42:48,153 --> 00:42:49,548
don't see how. You're going to get money out the

467
00:42:49,873 --> 00:42:52,108
door this year. Just to be frank, I don't see

468
00:42:52,153 --> 00:42:53,868
how money is going to be made available this year

469
00:42:54,513 --> 00:42:57,788
and effectively for this construction. Season. The windows closing already,

470
00:42:58,553 --> 00:43:01,028
and so I can't stress enough, the timing is tight,

471
00:43:01,313 --> 00:43:04,312
so. Thank you for that. Great. We got a question

472
00:43:04,397 --> 00:43:08,179
for you here from councilor block. Thanks, chair Davies. And

473
00:43:08,384 --> 00:43:11,459
thanks for being here. Mr. Mekrie, you spoke about the

474
00:43:11,504 --> 00:43:13,939
conference that you attended. Can you just help us understand

475
00:43:14,664 --> 00:43:19,579
in context why affordability affordable housing rather is such an

476
00:43:19,864 --> 00:43:24,786
important target. Yeah. Affordable housing. Is an important target because.

477
00:43:25,893 --> 00:43:29,468
We're seeing it across all levels of government. Where there

478
00:43:29,553 --> 00:43:35,186
seems to be a divestment from affordable housing. And we

479
00:43:35,231 --> 00:43:38,866
see market rate rentals continually going up, and we oversee

480
00:43:39,111 --> 00:43:41,826
a homelessness prevention fund. So we have made these citizens

481
00:43:41,871 --> 00:43:45,486
throughout the province low income ones. That can't afford their

482
00:43:45,531 --> 00:43:49,859
bills and their rent. We're seeing energy prices increase, grocery

483
00:43:50,224 --> 00:43:52,899
prices increase, and this isn't even just for people on

484
00:43:53,184 --> 00:43:56,779
social assistance. I know that point has been belabored across.

485
00:43:58,475 --> 00:44:01,350
Multiple meetings and stakeholders. We're talking about work in poor

486
00:44:01,395 --> 00:44:04,710
as well. They are not able to afford market rate

487
00:44:04,835 --> 00:44:07,510
rentals, and we're expecting that trend to continue. And so

488
00:44:08,355 --> 00:44:13,553
having an investment. That's specifically targeting low income individuals is

489
00:44:13,598 --> 00:44:16,353
key for a government. We just heard from Pleasant Hill

490
00:44:17,038 --> 00:44:19,273
about business and pleasant Hill about the issues that are

491
00:44:19,318 --> 00:44:22,073
happening in that community. I'm very familiar with that area.

492
00:44:23,726 --> 00:44:27,692
A big factor. We couldn't do is get people into

493
00:44:27,817 --> 00:44:30,052
market rate rentals. It was a big barrier. That we

494
00:44:30,097 --> 00:44:33,661
had. Working with homeless folks, but we were able to

495
00:44:33,706 --> 00:44:36,021
do referrals to a lot of cbos that were housing

496
00:44:36,306 --> 00:44:38,981
these same individuals. And so if we're actually wanting to

497
00:44:39,026 --> 00:44:41,781
get some upstream solutions. I think the investment is right

498
00:44:42,506 --> 00:44:45,461
in the housing continuum where it was said, where the

499
00:44:45,506 --> 00:44:47,781
target is being made because that area needs to be

500
00:44:47,826 --> 00:44:50,751
invested in heavily. And the province is also making money

501
00:44:50,796 --> 00:44:52,991
available as well. And so we have that ability to

502
00:44:53,196 --> 00:44:55,191
stack as well on a federal level, but just on

503
00:44:55,196 --> 00:45:00,076
the affordability standpoint, I don't. See without government. Concerted government

504
00:45:00,241 --> 00:45:05,756
effort and investment and specific to community based organizations and

505
00:45:06,121 --> 00:45:08,156
indigenous governments on low income I don't see how we're

506
00:45:08,161 --> 00:45:10,236
going to be able to keep up with market rate

507
00:45:10,321 --> 00:45:14,328
rentals or market rate builds. You spoke about city's divesting

508
00:45:14,613 --> 00:45:17,808
in affordable housing. Can you explain that? Why is that.

509
00:45:19,825 --> 00:45:22,580
Big factor is around the income assistance rates. It's very

510
00:45:22,945 --> 00:45:26,900
hard to make low income market rate work for people

511
00:45:27,225 --> 00:45:32,475
on income assistance. Basically now, unless you're in social housing

512
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:34,515
with the catchment like we were talking about, both the

513
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,832
30%. People can't afford their rent. And so we're seeing

514
00:45:39,917 --> 00:45:42,192
a lot of transition away from low income rentals to

515
00:45:42,477 --> 00:45:45,152
market. Rate rentals because there's also a housing shortage in

516
00:45:45,197 --> 00:45:46,152
the city. So you're going to be able to fill

517
00:45:46,437 --> 00:45:48,872
those units regardless whether they're low income or market rate.

518
00:45:49,197 --> 00:45:50,832
And you're going to be able to charge more, and

519
00:45:50,837 --> 00:45:54,952
so there's less incentive. For sectors to charge low income

520
00:45:54,997 --> 00:45:58,815
rentals unless it's tied to funding agreements. With like 10,

521
00:45:59,100 --> 00:46:01,895
20, 30 year outcomes. And so we do need to

522
00:46:01,940 --> 00:46:04,135
see that, and we're, also Saskatoon is one of the

523
00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:06,815
few exceptions for the housing corp. Is in selling off

524
00:46:07,140 --> 00:46:09,895
units but we see across the province that we're seeing

525
00:46:10,540 --> 00:46:14,027
the province sell off. Older social housing units, and as

526
00:46:14,072 --> 00:46:15,867
a result, we need to build more. The answer isn't

527
00:46:16,112 --> 00:46:17,987
to sell off more. It's to build more and to

528
00:46:18,032 --> 00:46:21,658
maintain more. And to have a proper level of maintenance

529
00:46:21,903 --> 00:46:23,898
for the existing units. But we do need to build

530
00:46:24,503 --> 00:46:27,378
an incredible I think every organization, housing organization or CBO

531
00:46:27,743 --> 00:46:29,978
can tell you they got a backlog into the hundreds.

532
00:46:30,023 --> 00:46:32,978
Now, for people awaiting housing. We oversee the coordinated access

533
00:46:33,143 --> 00:46:36,627
program. In partnership with ship, and I can't tell you

534
00:46:36,672 --> 00:46:38,907
the amount of times we've tried to get people into

535
00:46:39,232 --> 00:46:42,978
housing and. It's a math equation where they can't afford

536
00:46:43,383 --> 00:46:46,498
it, and you'll see. Advertisements on Kajiji and things like

537
00:46:46,503 --> 00:46:49,418
that, saying we do not accept people on income assistance.

538
00:46:49,463 --> 00:46:53,096
Don't bother applying. And so you see these? It's like

539
00:46:53,141 --> 00:46:55,776
before people used to say. That's saying the quiet part

540
00:46:55,861 --> 00:46:58,976
loud and. Now we're seeing it. Just be open. And

541
00:46:59,221 --> 00:47:01,096
I'm not saying that there's. Not reasons for that. There's

542
00:47:01,101 --> 00:47:02,896
a lot of reasons that go into why people make

543
00:47:03,221 --> 00:47:06,696
decisions. They do business decisions like that. But the cbos

544
00:47:06,741 --> 00:47:10,673
don't get to make business. Decisions like that. They're mission

545
00:47:11,038 --> 00:47:13,411
driven. I can tell you from somebody who ran a

546
00:47:13,616 --> 00:47:15,211
CBO and worked in the CBO sector. For 20 years.

547
00:47:15,816 --> 00:47:18,051
It is. Even though people tell you it's thankless, it's

548
00:47:18,096 --> 00:47:21,211
truly a thankless job. They're underpaid, they're overworked, but. Yet

549
00:47:21,256 --> 00:47:23,491
they show up every day and do it. And I

550
00:47:23,736 --> 00:47:26,971
think providing these incentives to organizations like Camponi. Like, comfy,

551
00:47:27,016 --> 00:47:31,070
like STC. Is going to go a long way to

552
00:47:31,355 --> 00:47:33,630
show them that the city is there to support them.

553
00:47:34,395 --> 00:47:40,030
Just one final question. In your view, how has. This

554
00:47:40,075 --> 00:47:45,433
particular crisis affected our homelessness crisis. It's massive. We no

555
00:47:45,478 --> 00:47:48,546
longer have the. I'll try to do a really short

556
00:47:48,871 --> 00:47:54,451
history lesson. When we had a coordinated system. Around housing

557
00:47:54,496 --> 00:47:57,051
first, where people would go into. The people would go

558
00:47:57,336 --> 00:47:59,571
in off the street. They'd. Be met with the support

559
00:47:59,696 --> 00:48:03,739
workers. They would go. Into sometimes market rate rentals or

560
00:48:04,024 --> 00:48:06,299
social housing, but they'd be supported in that. But there

561
00:48:06,344 --> 00:48:08,259
was a plan to offload them into the private sector,

562
00:48:08,504 --> 00:48:10,899
and we actually had pretty good partnerships with private sector

563
00:48:11,544 --> 00:48:14,339
on a landlord basis and organizational basis to get people

564
00:48:14,624 --> 00:48:18,965
who are homelessness. That window is rapidly closing, and there's

565
00:48:19,010 --> 00:48:20,765
folks like Cam who could speak better to it. Than

566
00:48:20,850 --> 00:48:23,996
I can. But there's a lot of reasons why that's

567
00:48:24,041 --> 00:48:28,187
happening. But. I don't know. It's unramplaned at this point,

568
00:48:28,472 --> 00:48:31,947
but it's. Crisis mode for us. Okay? Thank you. Thank

569
00:48:31,992 --> 00:48:38,530
you very much, Mr. Mechrity. Next, your worship? Yeah. Thanks.

570
00:48:39,215 --> 00:48:43,370
And I appreciate you coming, Mr. Merker, given your experience,

571
00:48:44,215 --> 00:48:47,170
as he said in a variety of different hats within

572
00:48:47,295 --> 00:48:53,150
the sector. And from what I'm reading, and everybody, I

573
00:48:53,155 --> 00:48:54,670
think, has just had a few days to sort of

574
00:48:54,995 --> 00:49:00,214
grapple with this feedback. And the decision that we're facing,

575
00:49:00,979 --> 00:49:06,044
which is. This is meant to use this funding to

576
00:49:06,409 --> 00:49:11,727
inject. Into the sector, the ability to get a bunch

577
00:49:12,052 --> 00:49:15,802
more projects happening than would have otherwise. We're hearing some,

578
00:49:15,847 --> 00:49:18,762
and I think we will hear some feedback that the

579
00:49:18,767 --> 00:49:21,983
way this incentives are set up. They may not lead

580
00:49:22,348 --> 00:49:25,463
to project penciling out, and it depends on how long.

581
00:49:27,116 --> 00:49:31,729
The rent. Is held to below. Market rates or just

582
00:49:32,054 --> 00:49:36,535
the overall ability to make the capital projects work. You're

583
00:49:36,900 --> 00:49:40,575
saying based on the 27,000 1500 building permits or the

584
00:49:40,620 --> 00:49:45,725
50,000? Per door. On the city owned land. Incentives. You

585
00:49:45,770 --> 00:49:54,279
think this will lead? To more projects happening. And. What's

586
00:49:54,324 --> 00:49:56,943
your confidence in that? I guess, or. How do you

587
00:49:57,108 --> 00:50:02,787
come to that conclusion? So from a funder level, we've

588
00:50:02,792 --> 00:50:04,947
had a number of people come to us asking us

589
00:50:05,032 --> 00:50:10,147
for funding on a project. Basically had in hand. And

590
00:50:10,552 --> 00:50:13,187
that makes it very difficult for us to do it,

591
00:50:13,592 --> 00:50:15,147
to commit the money, because our money is tied up

592
00:50:15,912 --> 00:50:18,581
for that year. And potentially two years while they're trying

593
00:50:18,906 --> 00:50:22,421
to leverage all sorts of other levels of funding. This

594
00:50:22,506 --> 00:50:25,541
is going to be one of the more simplified processes

595
00:50:25,866 --> 00:50:28,301
to get access to funding. And as a result, they're

596
00:50:28,306 --> 00:50:30,381
going to be able to go to groups like CMHC.

597
00:50:30,626 --> 00:50:31,421
They're going to be able to go to groups like

598
00:50:31,946 --> 00:50:33,941
Maitination, Saskatchewan. They're going to be able to go to

599
00:50:34,266 --> 00:50:37,021
the province with the housing corp. And say, hey, we.

600
00:50:37,554 --> 00:50:40,429
Have a commitment of 27,000 per door or 10,000 per

601
00:50:40,794 --> 00:50:44,269
door or whatever combo. It ends up being, are you

602
00:50:44,314 --> 00:50:47,798
able to meet us at some level? And it's going

603
00:50:47,803 --> 00:50:50,838
to make those conversations and get them moving a lot

604
00:50:50,883 --> 00:50:53,558
faster. So I don't think every project can necessarily come

605
00:50:53,803 --> 00:50:54,838
to light, but I do think it's going to open

606
00:50:55,163 --> 00:50:57,998
up the door for a lot. And I think Camponi

607
00:50:58,363 --> 00:51:01,078
can speak better than I can about being shovel ready

608
00:51:01,643 --> 00:51:04,473
and hitting the ground running. So I do have faith

609
00:51:04,758 --> 00:51:07,953
that this is going to go. And I've seen some

610
00:51:08,598 --> 00:51:12,887
math being done on the projects. Yeah, I think there's

611
00:51:12,932 --> 00:51:14,607
going to have to be an additional level of funding

612
00:51:14,892 --> 00:51:17,247
being accessed. Across the board, but that's the way these

613
00:51:17,292 --> 00:51:21,310
projects always work. Is you have different pockets of funding

614
00:51:21,595 --> 00:51:24,390
that are available, and the city stepping up is going

615
00:51:24,356 --> 00:51:25,950
to open up a lot of doors for us, whether

616
00:51:26,035 --> 00:51:29,839
that's through a group applying for funding. Through Nietzsche. Or

617
00:51:30,244 --> 00:51:34,052
the various other funding streams that are coming. We constantly

618
00:51:34,097 --> 00:51:36,332
are applying for different levels of funding, but having this

619
00:51:37,017 --> 00:51:38,852
type of. Having this type of. Investment from a city

620
00:51:38,937 --> 00:51:43,585
perspective makes it. A lot more doable. So if I

621
00:51:43,590 --> 00:51:47,246
could just paraphrase. The level of incentive isn't a deal

622
00:51:47,691 --> 00:51:51,846
breaker to make in itself. To make Project pencil but

623
00:51:52,491 --> 00:51:56,665
the currency gives a housing provider. To then put together.

624
00:51:57,759 --> 00:52:02,661
And have a compelling ask to other funders. Is a

625
00:52:02,666 --> 00:52:08,037
critical piece to help unlock those funds. Yeah. And the

626
00:52:08,082 --> 00:52:11,317
thing that's different about right now is that every funder,

627
00:52:11,562 --> 00:52:14,357
whether you talk to CMHC, Nietzsche, us. We're talking shovel

628
00:52:14,682 --> 00:52:18,449
ready projects. We're not talking down the road. Two years,

629
00:52:18,494 --> 00:52:21,529
three years, four years, everybody wants shovel ready. Projects. And

630
00:52:21,854 --> 00:52:24,437
when I've talked to the builders. We have a project

631
00:52:24,722 --> 00:52:27,517
that we're doing up in Meadow Lake. We signed a

632
00:52:27,562 --> 00:52:29,757
contract, Matthew. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we signed

633
00:52:30,082 --> 00:52:35,862
that contract about two months ago. The builds are ready

634
00:52:35,947 --> 00:52:38,542
and in their yards right now, so builders are able

635
00:52:38,587 --> 00:52:41,044
to meet the demand. If the funding is available. But

636
00:52:41,129 --> 00:52:42,964
we have to make that funding available, and so, yeah.

637
00:52:44,585 --> 00:52:46,940
Organizations that are speaking after me can speak better about

638
00:52:46,985 --> 00:52:51,013
it, but I don't think that the funding level. Is

639
00:52:51,298 --> 00:52:53,333
going to disincentivize, and I think if we send this

640
00:52:53,618 --> 00:52:55,493
back to committee, to try to work out a perfect

641
00:52:55,938 --> 00:52:58,533
formula. You're now talking, trying to get all the projects

642
00:52:58,538 --> 00:53:02,053
done within 2025 2026 construction cycle. And I just think

643
00:53:02,378 --> 00:53:04,773
that's a bad idea. We have the ability to get

644
00:53:05,058 --> 00:53:07,853
some projects up running now, and also it's a maturity

645
00:53:08,258 --> 00:53:10,853
for projects to start applying now for funding so that

646
00:53:10,898 --> 00:53:12,522
they can. Have a project done by the end of

647
00:53:12,567 --> 00:53:16,122
2025. Okay, and last question. And can just be. A

648
00:53:16,127 --> 00:53:20,122
brief answer, but is the mediation also have funding that

649
00:53:20,487 --> 00:53:26,737
can potentially. Be contributed on some of these projects. If

650
00:53:26,862 --> 00:53:31,320
providers are coming forward. So, yes, with the caveat of

651
00:53:31,605 --> 00:53:35,426
I have my own council. The provincial maid council that

652
00:53:35,671 --> 00:53:38,256
we'd have to talk to. We've met. And we have

653
00:53:38,501 --> 00:53:39,856
a meeting, I believe, at the end of the month.

654
00:53:39,981 --> 00:53:41,816
Where? We are wanting to work better with the city.

655
00:53:43,071 --> 00:53:45,706
On these projects. President McCallum has been pretty clear he

656
00:53:45,711 --> 00:53:48,705
wants this working in partnership across the board. But, yeah,

657
00:53:49,390 --> 00:53:51,745
there's potential there for sure. We have to go through

658
00:53:51,790 --> 00:53:56,213
our channels. But I think? There's a high potential there,

659
00:53:56,538 --> 00:53:58,693
and that's why we want to see this go. Because

660
00:53:58,778 --> 00:54:00,893
then we can get some other machinations going. But if

661
00:54:00,938 --> 00:54:03,933
we come and say we're, the only ones contributing. The

662
00:54:04,018 --> 00:54:06,773
question is going to be why? Let's go to Regina.

663
00:54:07,098 --> 00:54:12,374
Or Prince Albert. Where they're meeting us halfway. Okay, thank

664
00:54:12,419 --> 00:54:15,525
you. I think that's it for speakers, so thank you

665
00:54:15,530 --> 00:54:20,285
very much. We'll go to our next speaker, Cameron Chicat.

666
00:54:21,505 --> 00:54:23,380
Another veteran at the podium, so I know I don't

667
00:54:23,385 --> 00:54:24,740
have to tell you the rules. So feel free to

668
00:54:24,745 --> 00:54:28,180
go ahead. Anytime you're ready. Yes. The resident Nerd has

669
00:54:28,225 --> 00:54:30,900
appeared. As always, I want to thank Jason for stealing

670
00:54:31,225 --> 00:54:34,420
most of my punchlines. Well done, I think. We're really

671
00:54:34,785 --> 00:54:40,970
on the same page. Camera chick at CEO of Saskatchewan

672
00:54:41,255 --> 00:54:44,810
Landlord association really wanted to provide some value in this

673
00:54:45,135 --> 00:54:48,410
conversation by crunching some numbers because I'm a numbers guy.

674
00:54:48,455 --> 00:54:52,332
So I circulated a brief committee this morning. Much thanks

675
00:54:52,417 --> 00:54:55,092
to the clerk's office. But first of all, there's been

676
00:54:55,377 --> 00:54:58,532
some rumors. About the lack of consultation. Around half. I've

677
00:54:58,817 --> 00:55:00,852
been around that long. But this lovely mailer. Came out

678
00:55:01,177 --> 00:55:05,172
to every citizen in Saskatoon, so the concerns around consultation,

679
00:55:05,217 --> 00:55:08,692
I think, are moot. Because citizens have this, they have

680
00:55:08,977 --> 00:55:10,972
the opportunity to engage in the program. And I think

681
00:55:11,297 --> 00:55:13,403
if they want to. They have every opportunity to look

682
00:55:13,648 --> 00:55:17,363
for agendas every Wednesday at 430, and those are posted.

683
00:55:17,728 --> 00:55:20,323
So I really want to encourage committee to hold on

684
00:55:20,328 --> 00:55:25,042
the fact that admin has prioritized consultation. And then on

685
00:55:25,087 --> 00:55:28,961
the matter at hand. The incentives. We're here today. Although

686
00:55:29,246 --> 00:55:32,081
we don't represent a whole pile of affordable housing providers.

687
00:55:32,406 --> 00:55:34,681
I have the pleasure of working with dozens of them

688
00:55:35,286 --> 00:55:38,681
in Saskatoon and across the province. And it's my pleasure

689
00:55:39,006 --> 00:55:41,681
today to offer our support for the incentives. And we

690
00:55:42,046 --> 00:55:45,521
asked the question, will these incentives get more shovels in

691
00:55:45,566 --> 00:55:48,491
the ground much? To the question that his worship just

692
00:55:48,896 --> 00:55:52,451
posed and the brief that I circulated, the punchline there.

693
00:55:52,816 --> 00:55:57,513
Is. They will not directly incentivize unless, as Jason said,

694
00:55:59,151 --> 00:56:02,066
There are significant investments from other levels of government, and

695
00:56:02,391 --> 00:56:05,626
I put four scenarios before you of an actual affordable

696
00:56:05,951 --> 00:56:09,106
housing development that I sit on the board of. 36

697
00:56:09,471 --> 00:56:14,520
units, three stories. Mostly one and two bedroom apartments. And

698
00:56:14,925 --> 00:56:19,400
you can see that without a $3 million forgivable mortgage

699
00:56:19,445 --> 00:56:24,240
from CMHC. Affordable this affordable housing development is just not

700
00:56:24,285 --> 00:56:28,245
possible. Where rents are at. And that's essentially what Jason

701
00:56:28,570 --> 00:56:31,405
said as well. Without significant investment from other levels of

702
00:56:31,770 --> 00:56:37,464
government. These incentives. Won't do what they're meant to do.

703
00:56:37,869 --> 00:56:40,584
But they are such a valid piece. In being able

704
00:56:40,909 --> 00:56:44,504
to go to CMHC and saying, we have $27,000 per

705
00:56:44,909 --> 00:56:48,188
unit. So. I'm not putting a doom and gloom cloud

706
00:56:48,233 --> 00:56:51,268
over these incentives. They're great and. We're here to support

707
00:56:51,713 --> 00:56:55,225
them, however. They are just a piece of the puzzle.

708
00:56:55,950 --> 00:56:59,585
A three piece puzzle in terms of provincial and federal.

709
00:56:59,950 --> 00:57:04,041
Investments. Because the debt service costs, as you saw in

710
00:57:04,406 --> 00:57:08,801
my brief, are staggering. Even that 50 year mortgages which

711
00:57:08,806 --> 00:57:12,095
is what this calculation is based on. At a 5%

712
00:57:12,500 --> 00:57:17,243
interest rate. The debt service costs. Are the largest operating

713
00:57:17,528 --> 00:57:20,763
costs for affordable housing developments. And when you're guided by

714
00:57:21,048 --> 00:57:25,428
the Shims provincially, that's what's required. So in addition to

715
00:57:25,753 --> 00:57:28,908
this brief, I'll just say that most affordable housing developments

716
00:57:29,273 --> 00:57:31,988
will use a mixed market approach so that they can

717
00:57:32,313 --> 00:57:35,468
subsidize some of the affordable units with market rate rentals.

718
00:57:35,793 --> 00:57:38,108
And that's kind of a win win for both sectors

719
00:57:38,393 --> 00:57:41,108
where you have market rate rentals as well as affordable

720
00:57:41,433 --> 00:57:44,148
in the same building. That just helps the top line

721
00:57:44,313 --> 00:57:46,810
revenue. In the event that there isn't as much investment.

722
00:57:47,095 --> 00:57:48,930
So I put these numbers before you. Just to give

723
00:57:48,935 --> 00:57:51,490
you kind of a real world example of what a

724
00:57:51,535 --> 00:57:54,650
developer. What camponi? What? Quint might be going through. When

725
00:57:54,935 --> 00:57:58,730
they're crunching the numbers, they look at these. Viability spreadsheets

726
00:57:59,055 --> 00:58:01,810
really closely because they need to make it work for

727
00:58:02,175 --> 00:58:05,933
20 years because there is no operational fund. Funding from

728
00:58:06,258 --> 00:58:11,710
other levels of government. It's typically capital. Right. But I

729
00:58:11,755 --> 00:58:14,430
will offer a couple comments regarding the incentives in the

730
00:58:14,475 --> 00:58:19,029
next minute and 15 seconds. It certainly appears, though, on

731
00:58:19,074 --> 00:58:22,989
the city owned land incentive, that the city's actually lining

732
00:58:23,074 --> 00:58:27,869
their pockets with federal housing dollars by charging for the

733
00:58:27,914 --> 00:58:32,749
land but increasing the incentive. These are federal dollars. So

734
00:58:32,754 --> 00:58:34,989
if the city wants to come to the table with

735
00:58:35,314 --> 00:58:38,288
their own skin in the game, You should be providing

736
00:58:38,973 --> 00:58:41,168
that land at a discount and not at a million

737
00:58:41,533 --> 00:58:43,928
dollars an acre, because. What you're doing is charging a

738
00:58:43,973 --> 00:58:49,088
million dollars an acre, but giving $50,000. Incentive, whereas you

739
00:58:49,133 --> 00:58:53,168
could stretch that $50,000 incentive by charging less for the

740
00:58:53,493 --> 00:58:56,648
land. So that's one amendment we'd strongly consider because the

741
00:58:56,653 --> 00:58:59,678
purpose of half. Is not to line the municipality's pockets.

742
00:59:00,043 --> 00:59:02,518
And I'd also like to see some. Additional clarity, as

743
00:59:02,603 --> 00:59:05,838
Ms. Terasoff outlined in her written submission on how much

744
00:59:06,163 --> 00:59:09,723
money is being allocated to each incentive. So that we

745
00:59:09,768 --> 00:59:11,923
have clear lines of sight where the money is being

746
00:59:11,968 --> 00:59:15,123
spent, and that's merely just to have transparency and accountability.

747
00:59:15,928 --> 00:59:20,363
And finally, I'd suggest not having 20 year operating agreements,

748
00:59:20,728 --> 00:59:24,294
I'd reduce those to ten. Because not for profit, for

749
00:59:24,339 --> 00:59:26,934
profit housing providers don't want to be handcuffed for that

750
00:59:26,979 --> 00:59:29,774
long and that flexibility is really important. So with that,

751
00:59:30,379 --> 00:59:35,390
I'm available for questions. Great. Any questions for our speaker?

752
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,401
Councilor block. Thanks to your Davies. And thanks for being

753
00:59:41,446 --> 00:59:43,761
here, Mr. Shakat. I guess just in your last comment

754
00:59:44,166 --> 00:59:49,469
about the timeline. Reducing from 20 to ten. Could you

755
00:59:49,514 --> 00:59:52,509
just expand on that a little bit? Because I think

756
00:59:53,354 --> 00:59:55,269
part of the idea of the fund is to expand

757
00:59:55,554 --> 00:59:59,069
that affordability as long as possible. Certainly, I just think

758
00:59:59,154 --> 01:00:04,605
20 year agreements tend to scare providers off. That. It's

759
01:00:04,930 --> 01:00:07,685
been a long standing kind of standard. I know. The

760
01:00:07,730 --> 01:00:12,532
municipal scan showed 20. Years in other municipalities. I just

761
01:00:12,577 --> 01:00:17,134
think providers prefer a bit more flexibility. And having ten

762
01:00:17,459 --> 01:00:21,359
year agreements. I think, or ten or 15 provide that

763
01:00:21,764 --> 01:00:26,717
flexibility. You're partnering with mission based organizations, so the notion

764
01:00:27,002 --> 01:00:32,705
of affordability. Is important. But what providers don't want to

765
01:00:32,990 --> 01:00:36,465
be saddled with is 20 year rent control agreements. That

766
01:00:36,510 --> 01:00:39,305
prevent them from raising rent at all and not being

767
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:42,345
able to maintain the investment in their properties over the

768
01:00:42,350 --> 01:00:44,905
long term. So I just think the time horizon is

769
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:47,465
a little too long in the housing landscape and might

770
01:00:47,590 --> 01:00:50,665
come with some risk and scare some folks off. So.

771
01:00:51,161 --> 01:00:53,765
In your view. Sorry. In your view. It could maintain.

772
01:00:54,812 --> 01:00:59,738
A technical, affordable unit in perpetuity. But the rents need

773
01:00:59,783 --> 01:01:03,874
to be raised at a certain point. When Quint Camponi

774
01:01:04,159 --> 01:01:09,908
Jubilee residences. Any not for profit or for profit housing

775
01:01:09,953 --> 01:01:13,108
provider gets the property tax bill and it's up 5%

776
01:01:13,473 --> 01:01:16,548
or gets the insurance bill. That's up 10%. And they

777
01:01:16,593 --> 01:01:19,713
can't. Raise rent. They take money out of other line

778
01:01:20,158 --> 01:01:25,276
items, be it staff for supportive housing, be it. Repairs

779
01:01:25,321 --> 01:01:30,255
and maintenance. Regardless of your political position on rent control.

780
01:01:32,381 --> 01:01:33,936
It's a dollars and cents. At the end of the

781
01:01:33,941 --> 01:01:36,216
day, there needs to be money. At the bottom line

782
01:01:36,581 --> 01:01:39,660
to ensure that they can reinvest. And ensure that they

783
01:01:39,705 --> 01:01:42,340
can maintain those properties over the long term. So we

784
01:01:42,625 --> 01:01:44,940
want to make sure they can raise rents adequately. They're

785
01:01:44,945 --> 01:01:47,660
mission driven organizations, I can tell you, I sit on

786
01:01:47,905 --> 01:01:51,460
the board of Jubilee. Our average rental rate increases are

787
01:01:51,905 --> 01:01:55,321
two to 5%. Typically at or below inflation, and we

788
01:01:55,366 --> 01:01:57,561
just want to make sure that's possible. And we don't

789
01:01:57,606 --> 01:02:01,121
want to handcuff providers for 20 years, because after 20

790
01:02:01,206 --> 01:02:03,881
years, if they haven't been able to raise rents significantly.

791
01:02:04,206 --> 01:02:06,841
They don't have a nice nest egg. To reinvest. Buy

792
01:02:06,886 --> 01:02:10,401
new furnaces, put new shingles, replace windows, all of those

793
01:02:10,766 --> 01:02:16,655
capital investments. Thanks very much. You're welcome. You sparked another

794
01:02:17,020 --> 01:02:22,581
question here, Councilor Goff. Thanks. I actually had turned off

795
01:02:22,826 --> 01:02:24,781
my mic because I thought my question was answered. But

796
01:02:24,786 --> 01:02:29,060
of course, there's another one in my mind now. I'm

797
01:02:29,065 --> 01:02:32,260
wondering. So you're referring to mission based organizations when you

798
01:02:32,345 --> 01:02:38,737
talk about. Other assurances that rents will remain affordable. These

799
01:02:38,822 --> 01:02:44,488
incentives are not only available to those organizations. And in

800
01:02:44,533 --> 01:02:46,808
the role that you're here today, the primary role that

801
01:02:47,053 --> 01:02:51,488
year, today you represent. Housing providers who exist in all

802
01:02:51,573 --> 01:02:55,238
ends of the spectrum. And not all of whom are

803
01:02:55,283 --> 01:02:58,715
exist in the not for profit space. So I'm just

804
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:04,753
curious to hear. Any comments you have about. How we

805
01:03:05,118 --> 01:03:09,867
ensure the long term affordability of market. Of affordable units

806
01:03:10,192 --> 01:03:15,839
provided by market landlords. I think the operating agreements are

807
01:03:16,124 --> 01:03:17,639
a way you do that. I can tell you most

808
01:03:17,964 --> 01:03:21,239
market rate providers that I represent largely in my day

809
01:03:21,564 --> 01:03:25,446
job won't sign 20 year agreements. What we've seen in

810
01:03:25,771 --> 01:03:29,006
years gone by is buyout clauses where they might sign

811
01:03:29,371 --> 01:03:31,926
a 15 year agreement. But after ten years, if the

812
01:03:31,971 --> 01:03:35,166
numbers just aren't penciling, they'll. Actually buy out the remainder

813
01:03:35,491 --> 01:03:37,806
of the agreement. It's like a prepaid cell phone. Plan,

814
01:03:38,091 --> 01:03:40,326
right? If you upgrade before the date, you have to

815
01:03:40,451 --> 01:03:42,966
pay $300 if you want to. Get out of your

816
01:03:43,051 --> 01:03:47,435
affordable. Operating agreement. You actually have to give some of

817
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,395
the money back that you had worked really well. With

818
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,435
the Wrap program 25 years ago that was administered provincially.

819
01:03:55,530 --> 01:03:59,205
I think operating agreements are fine. I'm just. 20 years

820
01:03:59,570 --> 01:04:02,605
is a long time. The housing landscape changes drastically, and

821
01:04:02,690 --> 01:04:06,161
I don't want the handcuff. To scare providers away from

822
01:04:07,046 --> 01:04:11,619
participating in the program. Thank you. You're welcome. Any other

823
01:04:12,024 --> 01:04:17,005
questions? I think you're good. Thank you. I'm not sure

824
01:04:17,330 --> 01:04:21,637
why Councilor Goff is staying on my queue list. Do

825
01:04:21,642 --> 01:04:23,995
you want to hit your button? On and off. Oh,

826
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:29,335
there we go. No. Yeah, we're good. Perfect. We will

827
01:04:29,580 --> 01:04:38,714
go to our next speaker, Angela Bishop. Angela bishop has

828
01:04:38,759 --> 01:04:46,778
two people. Do you guys want to speak together? Yes.

829
01:04:47,543 --> 01:04:51,618
Okay. Feel free to introduce yourselves. Sure. Kate. Good day.

830
01:04:51,943 --> 01:04:55,378
Honorable committee members. My name is Zessary Shorte. I would

831
01:04:55,423 --> 01:04:57,778
also like to take a second to address the gallery

832
01:04:58,103 --> 01:05:01,098
as I'm here with my colleagues. Amy Bellage, our new

833
01:05:01,183 --> 01:05:05,840
executive director and Adam Colrich, the project manage. Manager for

834
01:05:06,165 --> 01:05:09,360
Hart Road. As a Mati woman and the board chair,

835
01:05:09,645 --> 01:05:12,720
we stand before you in support of the inflammation of

836
01:05:12,725 --> 01:05:17,000
the proposed incentives aimed at fostering the development of a

837
01:05:17,045 --> 01:05:21,120
more affordable housing through the housing accelerator fund. We are

838
01:05:21,165 --> 01:05:23,880
here on behalf of one of the largest Mati housing

839
01:05:24,165 --> 01:05:28,002
providers in Saskatoon camp. Camponi housing corporation and sas native

840
01:05:28,407 --> 01:05:32,124
rentals. This year we are celebrating 50 years as a

841
01:05:32,169 --> 01:05:36,284
Mati led provider of purpose, built, supportive and affordable housing

842
01:05:36,329 --> 01:05:38,164
in the city. I would now like to turn it

843
01:05:38,489 --> 01:05:40,604
over to the chair of the trustees and the joint

844
01:05:40,689 --> 01:05:43,913
oversight committee for the Hart Road project. I'm a little

845
01:05:44,318 --> 01:05:47,393
shorter. I just want to say I feel a little

846
01:05:47,438 --> 01:05:54,198
bit like the poor cousin coming. To this meeting today

847
01:05:54,563 --> 01:05:59,055
because. We really don't have. Two significant concerns in relation

848
01:05:59,860 --> 01:06:03,904
to. The housing accelerator fund and the proposals that are

849
01:06:03,949 --> 01:06:07,720
being put forward. Primarily because there's definitely a need within

850
01:06:08,205 --> 01:06:14,045
the community and not so. With those opening comments. I

851
01:06:14,011 --> 01:06:18,851
just want. To. Make those comments and that I don't

852
01:06:18,896 --> 01:06:23,366
realize I wasted 20 seconds saying that. So. Good morning.

853
01:06:23,771 --> 01:06:26,846
My name is Angela Bishop. I am chair of the

854
01:06:26,891 --> 01:06:30,806
joint oversight committee overseeing the Heart Road project, an innovative

855
01:06:31,171 --> 01:06:35,206
housing project in Blair Moore. Upon completion of phase one

856
01:06:35,251 --> 01:06:38,686
of the heart road project, we will have added 73

857
01:06:38,731 --> 01:06:43,305
much needed residential units to the affordable housing stock. And

858
01:06:43,630 --> 01:06:47,594
we'll have invested $40 million into the community. We have

859
01:06:47,999 --> 01:06:51,514
over 300 families on our waiting list, and it's growing.

860
01:06:51,599 --> 01:06:55,114
We know there is a need for affordable housing. So

861
01:06:55,439 --> 01:06:59,474
we commend your efforts in presenting recommendations to address this.

862
01:06:59,799 --> 01:07:04,900
Pressing issue of affordable housing in our city. The thoughtfulness

863
01:07:05,265 --> 01:07:09,820
and dedication exhibited in this report underscores the city's commitment

864
01:07:10,465 --> 01:07:15,369
to finding sustainable solutions to our housing challenges. In creating

865
01:07:15,734 --> 01:07:19,809
incentives and developing solutions. We are breaking ground, we are

866
01:07:20,214 --> 01:07:24,339
breaking barriers, we are creating. Opportunities, and we are building

867
01:07:24,744 --> 01:07:29,179
up communities. And for this you are commended. Your vision

868
01:07:29,504 --> 01:07:33,099
is an inclusive vision. It doesn't just focus on affordable

869
01:07:33,184 --> 01:07:36,299
housing. And I commend the committee on the comprehensive nature

870
01:07:36,664 --> 01:07:41,681
of. These proposals. As you well know. Saskatoon, like many

871
01:07:42,046 --> 01:07:46,801
other growing urban centers across this country, faces a persistence

872
01:07:46,886 --> 01:07:51,569
shortage of affordable housing options. The shortage not only impacts

873
01:07:51,894 --> 01:07:56,889
vulnerable populations, but also affects the overall socioeconomic fabric of

874
01:07:57,254 --> 01:08:00,904
our community. Access to safe and affordable housing is a

875
01:08:01,229 --> 01:08:04,864
fundamental human right, and addressing the issue is paramount to

876
01:08:04,909 --> 01:08:09,815
fostering more equitable and inclusive communities. Housing is one of

877
01:08:10,100 --> 01:08:15,205
the main factors determining well being. Unsafe housing leads to

878
01:08:15,530 --> 01:08:18,285
mental and physical health problems. We heard about it this

879
01:08:18,330 --> 01:08:23,125
morning. Greater mortality rates. And substance abuse. As an indigenous

880
01:08:23,410 --> 01:08:27,045
housing provider and as a mat woman, we are seeing

881
01:08:27,450 --> 01:08:29,725
all these problems in our communities and within our own

882
01:08:30,090 --> 01:08:33,645
families at much higher rates than other people across this

883
01:08:33,690 --> 01:08:37,226
country. There is a cost to not addressing these issues,

884
01:08:38,071 --> 01:08:42,346
although there are many intersecting issues. Cost of living crisis,

885
01:08:42,751 --> 01:08:47,826
affordability crisis, homelessness crisis. Hope is not lost on us.

886
01:08:49,331 --> 01:08:53,406
By investing in increasing housing in Saskatoon. We invest in

887
01:08:53,451 --> 01:08:56,486
health, we invest in jobs, we invest in a better

888
01:08:56,931 --> 01:08:59,966
future. I hope that city council will act on the

889
01:09:00,291 --> 01:09:03,606
recommendations advanced by committee, and we can invest in housing

890
01:09:04,011 --> 01:09:08,546
together. As a mat housing provider. Again, it is imperative

891
01:09:08,911 --> 01:09:12,506
to underscore the critical importance of addressing the housing needs

892
01:09:12,831 --> 01:09:17,017
of indigenous communities. In a supportive and culturally appropriate manner.

893
01:09:17,979 --> 01:09:20,374
At Camponi, we like to say we are more than

894
01:09:20,779 --> 01:09:25,254
just a Mati housing provider. We also offer tenant supports.

895
01:09:25,859 --> 01:09:28,734
We recognize the need to provide additional supports to our

896
01:09:29,099 --> 01:09:32,959
tenants who may not have. The rental acuity to maintain

897
01:09:33,324 --> 01:09:36,839
stable housing. We recognize that our tenants are among the

898
01:09:36,844 --> 01:09:41,639
most vulnerable. And marginalized populations, Saskatchewan. We bear witness to

899
01:09:41,684 --> 01:09:46,919
these issues every day. Our people's base disproportionately high rates

900
01:09:46,924 --> 01:09:52,184
of homelessness, overcrowding, and inadequate housing stemming from. Historical injustices,

901
01:09:52,909 --> 01:09:59,712
systemic discrimination, racism, and socioeconomic disparities. So we commend your

902
01:10:00,117 --> 01:10:04,557
efforts. Thank you. You guys are a great duo, I

903
01:10:04,602 --> 01:10:05,957
won't lie, but I'm just. Going to open up for

904
01:10:06,042 --> 01:10:09,985
questions here. Your worship. Feel free to go ahead. Thank

905
01:10:10,030 --> 01:10:12,305
you very much. And it's nice to see Ms. Bishop.

906
01:10:12,630 --> 01:10:16,288
And welcome to the Camponi. Team as well. I do

907
01:10:16,693 --> 01:10:19,688
remember meetings around the work to get the heart road

908
01:10:19,773 --> 01:10:24,564
project off the ground. And. There had been points along

909
01:10:24,929 --> 01:10:27,604
the way where you had some funding, but not enough

910
01:10:27,649 --> 01:10:31,519
to get it. Going? And so I'm just wondering, because.

911
01:10:33,072 --> 01:10:36,587
Similar actor. I guess we heard from Mr. Merkerty from

912
01:10:36,632 --> 01:10:45,411
the media nations. As a housing provider. Do you also

913
01:10:45,776 --> 01:10:49,599
feel that this changes the game by having. This kind

914
01:10:49,644 --> 01:10:54,371
of funding. In hand. If there's a project to be

915
01:10:54,376 --> 01:10:58,049
able to leverage those other. Orders of funding from other

916
01:10:58,374 --> 01:11:02,649
potential funders. And really accelerate the amount of units that

917
01:11:02,694 --> 01:11:04,529
are getting built here in our community to meet that.

918
01:11:04,934 --> 01:11:09,766
Need. Absolutely. I think that right now we're also facing

919
01:11:10,091 --> 01:11:14,086
challenges in relation to phase two and trying to close

920
01:11:14,811 --> 01:11:18,926
a gap and over $20 million gap because projects have

921
01:11:18,971 --> 01:11:23,639
become more costly. And so that project is shovel ready,

922
01:11:23,964 --> 01:11:28,795
but we're not able to get funding approvals. Because. We

923
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:30,395
don't have other than our own equity. I mean, we

924
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,737
own the land. We don't have funds to leverage, like

925
01:11:34,782 --> 01:11:37,897
we don't have commitments to leverage other funding, so absolutely,

926
01:11:38,622 --> 01:11:44,104
it's really important. I think that this housing accelerator fund

927
01:11:44,789 --> 01:11:47,664
not only creates space for that project, but also space

928
01:11:48,469 --> 01:11:51,504
for other projects that we may be embarking on in

929
01:11:51,789 --> 01:11:56,003
the near future. And that. We do have a number

930
01:11:56,088 --> 01:11:59,203
of, like, our inventory. The houses that we have, we

931
01:11:59,448 --> 01:12:05,599
have over 350. And the age of those houses. Many

932
01:12:05,964 --> 01:12:12,275
of them. Are. A lot older. They're not necessarily in

933
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,764
the best condition. Some of them have unfinished basements, and

934
01:12:17,089 --> 01:12:20,504
what we're seeing is that. The housing stock that we

935
01:12:20,549 --> 01:12:24,104
have may not necessarily be suitable for the housing needs

936
01:12:24,469 --> 01:12:27,544
within our community. And so that will also create space

937
01:12:27,989 --> 01:12:30,624
for us to, let's say, for example, we have a

938
01:12:30,629 --> 01:12:35,315
single family dwelling to end up. Increasing or growing our

939
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:39,946
portfolio. So do an infill where. You would maybe level

940
01:12:40,671 --> 01:12:44,305
that one of those properties. And then multiply it by.

941
01:12:45,480 --> 01:12:49,645
Four. So I think that. This really provides those incentives

942
01:12:50,250 --> 01:12:54,697
in that. And I just want to echo. Jason. 's

943
01:12:55,142 --> 01:12:58,297
sentiment in that and that there's no formula that is

944
01:12:58,382 --> 01:13:03,231
perfect. We'll take what we can get. And as is

945
01:13:03,276 --> 01:13:06,911
the practice of our Mati community, we'll make it work.

946
01:13:07,716 --> 01:13:13,492
Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. Councilor Goff. Thank

947
01:13:13,497 --> 01:13:17,601
you, Chair, Davies. And thank you. For. Your whole team

948
01:13:17,966 --> 01:13:21,041
for being here. Nice to see you all again. And

949
01:13:21,166 --> 01:13:23,481
in real life this time instead of virtually. That's great.

950
01:13:24,417 --> 01:13:27,292
I'm wondering if you can give me some indication of

951
01:13:27,617 --> 01:13:33,549
kind of how many funders or programs. Are represented in

952
01:13:33,594 --> 01:13:38,893
the heart road phase one project. And it's okay if

953
01:13:39,218 --> 01:13:42,373
it's an estimate, but I'm curious to know. In terms

954
01:13:42,458 --> 01:13:46,875
of. Getting that project off the ground. Was that application

955
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:50,810
to one or two programs or. Is there contribution from

956
01:13:50,895 --> 01:13:55,637
a number? I think we had received definitely contributions from

957
01:13:55,682 --> 01:14:02,539
three levels of government. And I can't recall necessarily. That

958
01:14:03,224 --> 01:14:07,656
we also have relationships with existing partners because. We're trying

959
01:14:08,021 --> 01:14:10,827
to build community and. We're trying to like, we'll have

960
01:14:11,472 --> 01:14:15,088
a community. Kitchen. We'll have a gym and those sort

961
01:14:15,133 --> 01:14:18,453
of things. So we're reaching out to other kind of

962
01:14:18,738 --> 01:14:23,538
service providers in the community to help. To, I guess.

963
01:14:25,132 --> 01:14:29,758
Empower our tenants through either programming or through. Sort of

964
01:14:30,043 --> 01:14:36,804
interconnecting those services. And that the other thing that I

965
01:14:36,889 --> 01:14:39,701
just want to say is that. We also will be

966
01:14:40,026 --> 01:14:43,581
bringing back what we call the wraparound services program, and

967
01:14:43,906 --> 01:14:48,673
that will be offered. At Heart Road and also to

968
01:14:48,718 --> 01:14:53,655
the rest of our tenants, because. We find that the

969
01:14:54,420 --> 01:14:59,695
lack of support also contributes to the sustainability of our

970
01:14:59,820 --> 01:15:03,255
clients, who are often faced with the impacts of intergenerational

971
01:15:03,380 --> 01:15:07,695
trauma, and I can speak to that quite confident. Comfortably

972
01:15:08,020 --> 01:15:11,615
and with knowledge because I have also been impacted by

973
01:15:11,980 --> 01:15:15,857
intra. Intragenerational trauma. I will say one thing that I'm

974
01:15:15,862 --> 01:15:19,625
really proud of Camponi's history. I actually was a tenant

975
01:15:19,910 --> 01:15:25,732
of Camponi. But for their culture of care attitude. I

976
01:15:25,737 --> 01:15:27,852
mean, if I had been anywhere else when I was

977
01:15:27,897 --> 01:15:30,172
a student, I'm pretty sure I would have been booted

978
01:15:30,497 --> 01:15:35,259
out the door. And I'm pretty happy for the supports

979
01:15:35,264 --> 01:15:38,720
that I got from the staff and that. Have a

980
01:15:38,725 --> 01:15:42,440
really good organization in that. And I eventually became a

981
01:15:42,765 --> 01:15:45,520
lawyer and that. And so don't hold that against me.

982
01:15:46,515 --> 01:15:52,318
But. It was. With that support and that safety net

983
01:15:52,723 --> 01:15:55,158
and people being there. So really, when I talk about

984
01:15:55,803 --> 01:16:00,152
housing, I talk about supportive housing. Thank you. Thanks. I

985
01:16:00,197 --> 01:16:03,752
think that's a really helpful perspective and appreciate your answer

986
01:16:04,117 --> 01:16:08,418
to my question. Next councilor block. Thank you, chair Davies.

987
01:16:08,743 --> 01:16:11,138
And thank you for your presentation this morning, Ms. Bishop.

988
01:16:11,423 --> 01:16:15,404
And Ms. Charte. I was inspired by you sharing your

989
01:16:15,449 --> 01:16:20,168
story, so thank you for that. I'm just wondering, you

990
01:16:20,533 --> 01:16:22,888
say that you don't really see any issues with what's

991
01:16:22,893 --> 01:16:27,899
being proposed today, despite its imperfections. Are you okay with

992
01:16:28,544 --> 01:16:33,448
a 20 year agreement in that case? Yeah. At this

993
01:16:33,493 --> 01:16:36,288
time. Really? We see that there's a real urgency to

994
01:16:36,653 --> 01:16:41,261
move things along, right? We can't be holding things up

995
01:16:41,586 --> 01:16:47,035
from my perspective, because. We have people who are in

996
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:49,675
need of housing and that, and we'll have to end.

997
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:52,755
Up making that work. Some of our agreements have been

998
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:56,155
for longer terms, so we're used. To those types of.

999
01:16:57,199 --> 01:17:00,874
Arrangements and that sort of stuff. So from my perspective,

1000
01:17:03,087 --> 01:17:05,442
The most important thing is making sure that we can

1001
01:17:05,727 --> 01:17:08,242
fill that need. Like I said, we have. 300 families

1002
01:17:09,047 --> 01:17:12,082
that are on our waiting list, and it grows every

1003
01:17:12,407 --> 01:17:16,800
single day. It's really sad because some of them are.

1004
01:17:17,545 --> 01:17:22,649
Kind of all clunked together. And other accommodations. So at

1005
01:17:22,694 --> 01:17:26,329
this point in time, like I said, no formula is

1006
01:17:26,694 --> 01:17:29,324
perfect. Maybe not all of the things that are being

1007
01:17:29,609 --> 01:17:33,924
proposed are perfect, but definitely we support this because we

1008
01:17:34,009 --> 01:17:35,964
see a need, and we will definitely be able to

1009
01:17:36,329 --> 01:17:40,324
leverage this in relation to Hert. Road, but also in

1010
01:17:40,649 --> 01:17:45,601
relation to kind of future. Developments and that sort of

1011
01:17:45,646 --> 01:17:49,848
stuff. So. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. Don't

1012
01:17:50,093 --> 01:17:52,488
see any other speakers for you. So thanks again for

1013
01:17:52,493 --> 01:17:56,568
coming. And our next speaker we have is Karen Kobison.

1014
01:17:59,096 --> 01:18:01,451
Morning. Good morning, Mr. Chair. Thank you so much. Before

1015
01:18:01,736 --> 01:18:03,691
I introduce myself, I just want to take a minute

1016
01:18:04,056 --> 01:18:13,689
to acknowledge. That our housing colleagues, relatives and friends in

1017
01:18:13,974 --> 01:18:15,889
the room today. We've been working on this. Since April

1018
01:18:16,174 --> 01:18:19,249
5, 2023. I'm sure Admin has been doing it a

1019
01:18:19,254 --> 01:18:21,049
little bit. Longer. But that was the day that we

1020
01:18:21,094 --> 01:18:23,369
all came together in that room at station 20 west.

1021
01:18:23,694 --> 01:18:27,219
And started to have these conversations. And really looking to

1022
01:18:27,504 --> 01:18:29,459
the outcomes of where we are today. So I just

1023
01:18:29,704 --> 01:18:31,619
want to take a moment to acknowledge and thanks our

1024
01:18:32,024 --> 01:18:34,659
team. And again, my friends and colleagues in the housing

1025
01:18:34,744 --> 01:18:39,841
industry, we've been here a lot recently, so today. My

1026
01:18:39,886 --> 01:18:42,561
name is Karen Kobison. I sometimes come to you wearing

1027
01:18:42,646 --> 01:18:46,721
different hats. Today I'm coming as a resident of Saskatoon,

1028
01:18:47,286 --> 01:18:50,601
of Saskatchewan, and a citizen of Canada, which we all

1029
01:18:51,046 --> 01:18:55,363
are. And I think that everyone today here would agree

1030
01:18:55,768 --> 01:18:58,403
that we are called to serve our communities and with

1031
01:18:58,448 --> 01:19:02,283
that comes responsibility to be good stewards of these public

1032
01:19:02,768 --> 01:19:09,872
resources, these fundings. Are people. On our assets. And so

1033
01:19:10,157 --> 01:19:13,752
I do understand the permitted uses of half, and I

1034
01:19:13,797 --> 01:19:16,072
do understand what we're doing here today, and I'm 100%

1035
01:19:16,437 --> 01:19:21,880
fully supportive. As my sister Angela mentioned. This will go

1036
01:19:21,925 --> 01:19:24,000
a long way to moving the needle on housing in

1037
01:19:24,045 --> 01:19:27,170
our community. One of the things that concerns me, though,

1038
01:19:27,775 --> 01:19:30,210
and it was actually brought up by the doctor, this

1039
01:19:30,615 --> 01:19:35,370
morning is that I live in that neighborhood. Those people

1040
01:19:35,455 --> 01:19:38,639
are my neighbors. We all know that we will do

1041
01:19:38,684 --> 01:19:41,639
whatever we can to help. What I see and what

1042
01:19:41,684 --> 01:19:45,660
is concerning to me. Are the vacant, boarded up apartment

1043
01:19:46,065 --> 01:19:53,143
buildings. The houses that are underutilized, uninhabitable. And I would

1044
01:19:53,508 --> 01:19:56,338
urge you to consider. I don't know what the right

1045
01:19:56,743 --> 01:19:59,818
timeline should be on these affordable housing agreements. Yes, we

1046
01:19:59,863 --> 01:20:02,098
need to get new housing built. But what does that

1047
01:20:02,103 --> 01:20:04,822
look like in the future? How do we move people?

1048
01:20:06,438 --> 01:20:09,684
To free up space for more people, so. We don't

1049
01:20:09,729 --> 01:20:13,571
have 300 families on a waiting list ever again. They

1050
01:20:13,616 --> 01:20:16,795
need to move forward and. They need to continue to

1051
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:20,284
grow. So I would ask you to consider, and I'm

1052
01:20:20,289 --> 01:20:21,764
going to take you a little bit. Into the future.

1053
01:20:23,307 --> 01:20:25,542
When we build all the new units that we need,

1054
01:20:25,907 --> 01:20:27,742
and I don't think we're actually going to scratch the

1055
01:20:27,787 --> 01:20:29,582
surface with this today. We are going to make a

1056
01:20:29,587 --> 01:20:33,142
good start. But the Saskatoon and region home builders Association.

1057
01:20:35,078 --> 01:20:38,313
Has estimated in its latest housing market outlook report that

1058
01:20:38,638 --> 01:20:42,970
Saskatoon alone is going to need about 24,000. Housing units

1059
01:20:43,295 --> 01:20:46,930
between now and 2030 to meet population growth. So when

1060
01:20:47,255 --> 01:20:50,490
we think of it as the affordable housing piece supporting.

1061
01:20:51,557 --> 01:20:55,352
Let's say the lowest income earning quartile. Of that, we'll

1062
01:20:55,357 --> 01:20:58,232
need about 8000 units. And I don't think this can

1063
01:20:58,477 --> 01:21:01,312
just be accomplished by building new all the time. I

1064
01:21:01,317 --> 01:21:05,592
think we have to understand the unintended consequences of building

1065
01:21:05,717 --> 01:21:09,152
new all the time. People will need to be relocated.

1066
01:21:09,837 --> 01:21:13,549
They potentially will need to be in new. Environments. Perhaps

1067
01:21:14,394 --> 01:21:17,189
not where they're familiar, because it's what they can afford.

1068
01:21:18,410 --> 01:21:20,485
So I would like us to take a look at

1069
01:21:20,570 --> 01:21:25,970
the neighborhoods where we have assets. Where we have. In

1070
01:21:26,375 --> 01:21:30,370
our possession, whether it's land. I think I also understand

1071
01:21:31,055 --> 01:21:34,730
the city doesn't. Really own buildings in those neighborhoods. But

1072
01:21:34,975 --> 01:21:37,010
can we look at a future where we can fund

1073
01:21:37,335 --> 01:21:42,445
or help leverage. Like Angela said, Camponi or matination or

1074
01:21:42,490 --> 01:21:46,365
somebody like, what are those partnerships and collaborative opportunities. Looking

1075
01:21:46,450 --> 01:21:55,083
like into the future. So today. I think that these

1076
01:21:55,488 --> 01:21:57,923
assets and the future. What does this look like beyond

1077
01:21:58,328 --> 01:22:03,084
half. In a 20 year agreement. I don't think the

1078
01:22:03,129 --> 01:22:05,324
same people. I don't think the same people are going

1079
01:22:05,329 --> 01:22:07,644
to be living in those units 20 years later, but

1080
01:22:07,969 --> 01:22:11,564
maybe they are. Depending on the population target. Right? So

1081
01:22:11,849 --> 01:22:14,564
I just want to introduce today something for us all

1082
01:22:14,609 --> 01:22:18,728
to think about. And it is called. Asset based community

1083
01:22:19,173 --> 01:22:25,348
development. And it's just a philosophy. That links our micro

1084
01:22:25,713 --> 01:22:29,846
assets to our macro environment. So this comes to us.

1085
01:22:30,945 --> 01:22:34,700
Through the foundational elements of clear and common purpose, which

1086
01:22:35,065 --> 01:22:38,073
we already have, that we're all here today. Community engagement

1087
01:22:38,438 --> 01:22:43,897
coproduction. Relationships and trust and then results in accountability. So

1088
01:22:44,502 --> 01:22:48,817
it highlights capacity, skills, knowledge, connections and potential of what

1089
01:22:49,182 --> 01:22:52,926
we already have in the community today. So I applaud

1090
01:22:53,171 --> 01:22:55,166
the housing accelerator fund. Thank you again so much to

1091
01:22:55,171 --> 01:22:58,726
the administration team. For including me personally where I work

1092
01:22:59,411 --> 01:23:03,086
and the other places where I am active in the

1093
01:23:03,131 --> 01:23:08,585
consultations. And I really am supportive of this. And thank

1094
01:23:08,630 --> 01:23:11,559
you, committee and council, for your work. Great. Thank you

1095
01:23:11,564 --> 01:23:14,863
very much. You do have a question from councilor block.

1096
01:23:16,094 --> 01:23:20,089
There we go. Thanks, chair Davies. And thanks for that

1097
01:23:20,414 --> 01:23:23,129
information. Ms. Cobison. I'm just wanting to know if you

1098
01:23:23,134 --> 01:23:24,929
could give us an example of what you mean by

1099
01:23:24,974 --> 01:23:32,265
that asset. Based community development, macro, micro. Yeah. So I

1100
01:23:32,270 --> 01:23:33,265
had to say a lot of words there in a

1101
01:23:33,270 --> 01:23:35,585
short period of time. Thank you for your questions, Mr.

1102
01:23:35,990 --> 01:23:38,726
Chair. So it would be an example of that would

1103
01:23:39,091 --> 01:23:42,782
be. To, for example, work with Camponi. They have housing

1104
01:23:43,107 --> 01:23:47,015
like they have existing stock that might need. To be

1105
01:23:47,540 --> 01:23:51,655
bulldozed. New infill, four units on a site, for example.

1106
01:23:52,603 --> 01:23:55,758
So that's like a micro asset, right? That house that

1107
01:23:55,843 --> 01:23:59,507
Angela is referring to? But how? They still need funding

1108
01:23:59,792 --> 01:24:03,059
for that type of work, too. And it's in the

1109
01:24:03,064 --> 01:24:05,419
right community. The people already live there. So we just

1110
01:24:05,744 --> 01:24:07,659
look at it as that tiny little asset in that

1111
01:24:07,944 --> 01:24:10,379
community, whether it's an apartment building, a single family home,

1112
01:24:10,704 --> 01:24:14,139
a vacant lot. And how can we start from within

1113
01:24:14,544 --> 01:24:17,339
and build our way out and to me, the micro

1114
01:24:17,664 --> 01:24:20,259
asset that has the macro effect is also a bottom

1115
01:24:20,384 --> 01:24:23,190
up approach rather than top down and. I think sometimes.

1116
01:24:24,626 --> 01:24:27,821
That's really a stronger way to go about things. And

1117
01:24:28,146 --> 01:24:30,221
in here below, how would the city play a role

1118
01:24:30,546 --> 01:24:36,980
in that? No girl. You know what? Again? Am I

1119
01:24:37,025 --> 01:24:38,420
going to rock the boat if I say things like

1120
01:24:38,705 --> 01:24:43,024
zoning approval for four units as of right. Perhaps looking

1121
01:24:43,069 --> 01:24:46,144
at how can we leverage city own land doesn't necessarily

1122
01:24:46,549 --> 01:24:52,856
maybe mean the piece that we talk about. On the

1123
01:24:53,141 --> 01:24:56,435
Lakeview Community center parking lot. Maybe it is. Some of

1124
01:24:56,840 --> 01:25:00,555
the vacant lots that are available in meadow Green or

1125
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:05,101
Mount Royal or Pleasant Hill or wherever they meet. I

1126
01:25:05,106 --> 01:25:06,541
think that there's really a lot of ways that we

1127
01:25:06,826 --> 01:25:09,181
can communicate, that we can. Collaborate, and I just think

1128
01:25:09,826 --> 01:25:11,821
we can almost come up with new ideas. So how

1129
01:25:12,066 --> 01:25:15,148
the city plays. A role in that is. Whatever council

1130
01:25:15,433 --> 01:25:17,787
thinks would be a great idea. Thank you very much.

1131
01:25:18,512 --> 01:25:22,063
Thank you. Not seeing other speakers or any questions, so

1132
01:25:22,148 --> 01:25:28,224
thank you. We do have other speakers. Kristen thomps. Welcome.

1133
01:25:31,660 --> 01:25:34,855
Well, hello. Hopefully. Last but not least. My name is

1134
01:25:35,180 --> 01:25:38,495
Kristen Toms. I'm the executive. Director with Quint Development Corporation.

1135
01:25:41,524 --> 01:25:45,199
We're a nonprofit housing provider in Saskatoon, and so I

1136
01:25:45,244 --> 01:25:48,839
have read through the housing accelerator. Fund incentive report. And

1137
01:25:49,204 --> 01:25:50,999
first off, I'd like to say that it is great

1138
01:25:51,044 --> 01:25:54,599
to see incentives like capital subsidies and tax abatements for

1139
01:25:54,884 --> 01:25:58,079
agencies like ourselves when we're considering housing developments. Those are

1140
01:25:58,684 --> 01:26:01,386
the types of incentives that we're looking towards. I also

1141
01:26:01,471 --> 01:26:03,666
want to say that I really appreciate the focus on

1142
01:26:03,991 --> 01:26:06,826
affordable housing. I think it really reflects the commitment of

1143
01:26:06,831 --> 01:26:09,906
the city in terms of social equity and community well

1144
01:26:10,311 --> 01:26:14,146
being. So I'm not really up here. To labor the

1145
01:26:14,191 --> 01:26:16,866
conversation about the need for affordable housing. But just in

1146
01:26:16,871 --> 01:26:19,466
terms of what affordable housing is to us. And for

1147
01:26:19,511 --> 01:26:22,466
us, it's more deeply affordable housing for those in most

1148
01:26:22,551 --> 01:26:24,426
need. And I think it does align with the report.

1149
01:26:25,111 --> 01:26:27,866
You do identify the low income households. Those folks below

1150
01:26:28,191 --> 01:26:31,466
the shim rates. And when we consider households that rely

1151
01:26:31,471 --> 01:26:36,233
on. Say, provincial income support affordability really does need to

1152
01:26:36,558 --> 01:26:40,247
align with. The income support, shelter loans or things like

1153
01:26:40,532 --> 01:26:42,967
the Saskatchewan housing benefits. So when we keep that in

1154
01:26:43,332 --> 01:26:46,407
mind. I think affordability in terms of incentives, they need

1155
01:26:46,412 --> 01:26:48,887
to be a little bit of aggressive. So we're looking

1156
01:26:48,972 --> 01:26:53,411
at the city's proposed incentives. For sure. The incentive itself

1157
01:26:54,136 --> 01:26:56,531
doesn't necessarily have legs to stand on alone, but I

1158
01:26:56,576 --> 01:27:00,891
agree. With the speakers that came before me definitely can

1159
01:27:00,936 --> 01:27:04,011
be stacked. So there is obviously opportunity on a provincial

1160
01:27:04,056 --> 01:27:06,691
level, not as strong as there is on a federal

1161
01:27:06,736 --> 01:27:11,182
level. So I think. For agencies like Quint, we would

1162
01:27:11,507 --> 01:27:15,870
have to look at stacking these incentives. And really looking,

1163
01:27:16,275 --> 01:27:22,372
again, deeply affordable. So, thinking about rental rates. The incentives

1164
01:27:22,697 --> 01:27:27,584
have to cover a good, significant portion. Of those upfront

1165
01:27:27,829 --> 01:27:30,944
costs to keep it sustainable long term. So sustainable as

1166
01:27:30,989 --> 01:27:33,704
a housing provider, but. Affordable for the tenants that are

1167
01:27:34,029 --> 01:27:37,738
moving into those units. So what I'm, I guess bringing

1168
01:27:37,783 --> 01:27:39,578
to the table is I don't think it's. The city

1169
01:27:40,143 --> 01:27:42,538
and the city alone that needs to do this. I

1170
01:27:42,543 --> 01:27:45,738
think you're one stakeholder of many. And so I appreciate

1171
01:27:46,103 --> 01:27:51,575
what the report. Provided. But what I would like to,

1172
01:27:52,020 --> 01:27:55,466
for folks to consider, I think. Just had some other

1173
01:27:55,751 --> 01:27:57,586
things to say, but I think the speakers ahead of

1174
01:27:57,591 --> 01:27:59,866
me talked about it. So maybe the only thing that

1175
01:28:00,151 --> 01:28:01,586
I would add to that is there might be some

1176
01:28:01,631 --> 01:28:05,097
play in terms of tax abatements. I will be honest.

1177
01:28:06,602 --> 01:28:08,677
I'm a little bit of an imposter here. Standing up

1178
01:28:08,682 --> 01:28:10,837
here. I don't. Know a lot about the tax abatements

1179
01:28:10,882 --> 01:28:13,357
within the city. I do understand that five years is

1180
01:28:13,402 --> 01:28:16,117
a general practice, but when we're talking about those agreements.

1181
01:28:16,442 --> 01:28:19,717
So, councilor block. You're identifying those 20 year partnership agreements.

1182
01:28:21,316 --> 01:28:23,351
Is there play to look at tax abatements that extend

1183
01:28:23,636 --> 01:28:26,351
to the length of those agreements? So if an agency

1184
01:28:26,436 --> 01:28:29,871
like Quint, when I think of federal programming, there's a

1185
01:28:29,876 --> 01:28:32,551
lot of investment in the loan stream versus the contribution

1186
01:28:32,636 --> 01:28:36,071
stream. So, like, say, an agency like Quint. Stacks the

1187
01:28:36,396 --> 01:28:39,071
incentives at the city level, maybe with the provincial level

1188
01:28:39,396 --> 01:28:42,063
and federal level, and there is additional carrying. Costs. What

1189
01:28:42,388 --> 01:28:45,623
can the city do to support housing providers like ourselves

1190
01:28:45,988 --> 01:28:51,106
that can keep. Those operational costs lower. For those 20

1191
01:28:51,191 --> 01:28:55,855
year agreements. And in terms of just to comment on

1192
01:28:56,220 --> 01:28:59,735
raising of rents. So I think there needs to be

1193
01:28:59,980 --> 01:29:03,095
a little bit of flexibility in that. Our experience, especially

1194
01:29:03,700 --> 01:29:07,135
through our partnerships with the Saskatchewan Housing Corporation, there is

1195
01:29:07,180 --> 01:29:09,015
a little bit of a request in terms of raising

1196
01:29:09,260 --> 01:29:12,935
those rents. So some types of levers to do that

1197
01:29:13,300 --> 01:29:17,175
if and when affordability is in question and rents need

1198
01:29:17,220 --> 01:29:19,126
to be raised a little bit. So I think. I'll

1199
01:29:19,531 --> 01:29:22,823
end it there. Thank you. Great. Do you have a

1200
01:29:22,828 --> 01:29:26,703
couple of questions here, sir? Your worship? Yeah, actually, I

1201
01:29:26,708 --> 01:29:29,028
think. I just wanted to. And I'm not asking you

1202
01:29:29,313 --> 01:29:32,428
to debate others speakers, but we are. Hearing about a

1203
01:29:32,473 --> 01:29:37,776
concern about lengthening agreements. To 20 years and how feasible

1204
01:29:37,821 --> 01:29:40,496
or viable that would be. I think at the end,

1205
01:29:41,261 --> 01:29:44,963
you kind of made reference to. Flexibility. And so could

1206
01:29:45,008 --> 01:29:48,003
you just comment a little bit more on how your

1207
01:29:48,088 --> 01:29:53,710
recommendation about how we go about? Wanting to have as

1208
01:29:53,755 --> 01:29:55,990
long a time horizon as we can to make sure

1209
01:29:56,035 --> 01:30:02,420
that that affordability stays, but. Also not completely. Tying the

1210
01:30:02,465 --> 01:30:06,170
hands of providers. Yeah. I think in terms of flexibility

1211
01:30:06,735 --> 01:30:10,458
in these agreements, I don't know if I can. Do.

1212
01:30:11,658 --> 01:30:14,013
A deep dive in that. But there has to be

1213
01:30:14,378 --> 01:30:17,053
processes in place that if there is a need to

1214
01:30:17,378 --> 01:30:22,036
flex or change or amend agreements that. There's avenues to

1215
01:30:22,041 --> 01:30:25,574
do that as a nonprofit provider. I think we would

1216
01:30:25,819 --> 01:30:29,094
go into these agreements in good faith. Right. But also,

1217
01:30:29,459 --> 01:30:32,854
like many other agreements, there's these opportunities to amend and

1218
01:30:32,939 --> 01:30:35,134
just to make sure the infrastructure within the city is

1219
01:30:35,179 --> 01:30:37,054
in place to do that. And it doesn't be like,

1220
01:30:37,299 --> 01:30:40,134
okay, whose department it is, and what processors are in

1221
01:30:40,339 --> 01:30:43,654
place. So just thinking of a more administratively after effect

1222
01:30:44,339 --> 01:30:48,430
to have those. Continued conversations after that initial development has

1223
01:30:48,475 --> 01:30:52,110
been established and people have been moved in, and I

1224
01:30:52,155 --> 01:30:55,110
just think in general, like I said, the city is

1225
01:30:55,155 --> 01:30:57,870
one stakeholder in this in terms of dealing. With housing

1226
01:30:58,155 --> 01:31:01,910
and homelessness. So what levers does the city have outside

1227
01:31:02,635 --> 01:31:06,280
of the housing accelerator? Fund to support the. Continue affordability

1228
01:31:07,125 --> 01:31:09,640
of these units once the construction is built, because I

1229
01:31:09,685 --> 01:31:11,520
agree with other speakers like there is a lot of

1230
01:31:11,805 --> 01:31:15,000
investment in the capital cost into development, not so much

1231
01:31:15,405 --> 01:31:19,440
in terms of the carrying costs afterwards. Okay, thank you

1232
01:31:19,445 --> 01:31:25,191
very much. Councilor goff. Thanks. I was going to ask

1233
01:31:25,516 --> 01:31:27,511
a similar question, but I think it's been answered and.

1234
01:31:27,796 --> 01:31:32,858
I will ask our staff to help me understand. The

1235
01:31:32,943 --> 01:31:39,015
tax abatement portion, but I'm also wondering. I'm looking ahead

1236
01:31:39,340 --> 01:31:42,935
in the agenda. And Quint Development Corporation is being provided

1237
01:31:43,580 --> 01:31:46,935
a $20,000 grant for the eviction prevention program. Are those

1238
01:31:47,300 --> 01:31:50,895
the types of operating funding sources I know it's not

1239
01:31:51,220 --> 01:31:54,775
operating in terms of paying your utilities, but are those

1240
01:31:54,820 --> 01:31:59,762
the types? Of programs. Can you tell me about the

1241
01:31:59,767 --> 01:32:01,882
types of programs that quint tries to tie to its

1242
01:32:01,927 --> 01:32:05,122
housing? And where you seek support to make those things

1243
01:32:05,527 --> 01:32:09,611
sustainable. Yeah, just, I think, in a nutshell. A lot

1244
01:32:09,616 --> 01:32:14,091
of people provide eviction prevention programming within their affordable housing,

1245
01:32:14,376 --> 01:32:16,731
and so for us, it has changed throughout the years.

1246
01:32:17,456 --> 01:32:20,891
When it started, we're a community economic development organization. So

1247
01:32:20,976 --> 01:32:24,891
really eviction prevention kind of looked at building folks'capacity and

1248
01:32:24,936 --> 01:32:27,971
their connection to their community and creating ownership in a

1249
01:32:28,016 --> 01:32:30,999
rental environment. But through the years. And through the complex

1250
01:32:31,084 --> 01:32:33,639
issues that our communities are facing, it has moved a

1251
01:32:33,644 --> 01:32:38,199
little bit more into more supportive system, navigation and advocacy

1252
01:32:38,924 --> 01:32:43,054
and stabilization of our tenants to keep them housed. And

1253
01:32:43,099 --> 01:32:46,294
that does come with pretty significant costs. So repair and

1254
01:32:46,299 --> 01:32:49,254
maintenance costs aren't just for sweet turnovers when somebody leaves.

1255
01:32:49,379 --> 01:32:54,106
Repair maintenance often includes keeping people. Housed. So some of

1256
01:32:54,351 --> 01:32:58,146
the victim prevention work we do focuses in those areas.

1257
01:32:58,871 --> 01:33:02,619
Okay, thanks so much. I think that's it for questions.

1258
01:33:03,024 --> 01:33:06,968
Okay, thank you. So it's eleven three right now. I

1259
01:33:06,973 --> 01:33:09,248
know we're going to have some questions. For our administration.

1260
01:33:09,573 --> 01:33:10,968
If we can just hold off on those. And we're

1261
01:33:10,973 --> 01:33:12,648
going to take a quick ten minute break. We'll come

1262
01:33:12,693 --> 01:33:14,968
back at 1113. Thank you.

1263
01:43:48,506 --> 01:43:50,021
And we were done. Our speakers list on this item,

1264
01:43:50,266 --> 01:43:51,821
so I am going to open it up. For administration

1265
01:43:52,506 --> 01:43:57,375
and for questions. So Councilor Goff. Go ahead. Thank you.

1266
01:43:57,660 --> 01:44:00,135
Chair. Davies. Sorry, I'm just pulling up my notes here.

1267
01:44:04,340 --> 01:44:06,255
We got an echo? Do we have the echo back?

1268
01:44:08,824 --> 01:44:13,712
Testing testing testing. Chair, Davies. Maybe try turning your mic

1269
01:44:13,797 --> 01:44:17,232
off. Mic off? Is that any better? Any better? No.

1270
01:44:19,897 --> 01:44:22,572
Did anyone in this room sign into teams and leave

1271
01:44:22,897 --> 01:44:24,812
their mic on? I don't see anybody lighting up on

1272
01:44:24,817 --> 01:44:27,412
the board. I think you're good now. Is it better?

1273
01:44:33,410 --> 01:44:37,038
Just talk long enough when the issue fixes itself. Okay.

1274
01:44:40,172 --> 01:44:48,536
Now I've lost my notes again. Okay. Thank you for

1275
01:44:48,861 --> 01:44:51,696
the report and thank you to all of the speakers.

1276
01:44:53,051 --> 01:44:56,186
And folks who've come to ask questions about this. One

1277
01:44:56,591 --> 01:44:59,666
question that was raised earlier is around the property tax

1278
01:44:59,991 --> 01:45:02,426
abatement portion of the incentives. And we've used this tool

1279
01:45:02,871 --> 01:45:07,457
before. I'm wondering if you can remind me kind of.

1280
01:45:08,542 --> 01:45:11,722
What the format of that is. And whether we can

1281
01:45:11,807 --> 01:45:18,251
consider. Longer term property tax abatements. Great. Thank you. So

1282
01:45:18,616 --> 01:45:21,211
we have used the property tax maven for a long,

1283
01:45:21,296 --> 01:45:23,851
long time for a variety of different things. Under the

1284
01:45:24,136 --> 01:45:26,451
city's act, there is a five year allowance for that

1285
01:45:26,816 --> 01:45:34,874
property tax abatement. So with a standard term set by

1286
01:45:34,919 --> 01:45:37,554
that act, we are fairly limited in what we can

1287
01:45:37,559 --> 01:45:42,168
do. We have been having conversations internally about what are

1288
01:45:42,453 --> 01:45:45,275
some of the options, what could we look at? But

1289
01:45:46,120 --> 01:45:49,257
we are bound by the act. In terms of tax

1290
01:45:49,662 --> 01:45:53,817
payments. Okay. And have we flagged that as a barrier

1291
01:45:54,502 --> 01:45:58,726
to our provincial counterparts. We have definitely had discussions with

1292
01:45:59,571 --> 01:46:01,806
the provincial counterparts that we have discussions with all the

1293
01:46:01,851 --> 01:46:06,276
time. We've also talked about it with CMHC. We haven't

1294
01:46:06,721 --> 01:46:10,316
yet. I don't believe advocated to the province formally to

1295
01:46:10,641 --> 01:46:14,468
request that. Change. I would also note we have been

1296
01:46:14,793 --> 01:46:17,548
seeing across the country that some provinces are going to

1297
01:46:17,833 --> 01:46:21,148
a ten year abatement. And that does help these projects

1298
01:46:21,473 --> 01:46:24,148
in terms of it then becoming an eligible funding source

1299
01:46:24,153 --> 01:46:29,376
or a method of contribution for CMHC to support. So

1300
01:46:29,461 --> 01:46:33,059
it does make a difference. But at this time we

1301
01:46:33,104 --> 01:46:37,374
are limited to the five years. So, to clarify, When

1302
01:46:37,419 --> 01:46:39,614
we commit to a five year property tax abatement at

1303
01:46:39,659 --> 01:46:43,654
the outset of a project CMHC is considering that almost

1304
01:46:43,979 --> 01:46:48,491
a capital contribution to the project. In terms of. The

1305
01:46:48,536 --> 01:46:51,371
supports from various funders when they're looking at kind of

1306
01:46:51,656 --> 01:46:54,330
matching supports or other things. I don't know if it's

1307
01:46:54,935 --> 01:46:56,490
a capital, if they consider it a capital or. Just

1308
01:46:56,775 --> 01:47:00,010
considered an inkind contribution, right? In kind. Okay, yeah, that

1309
01:47:00,295 --> 01:47:02,170
makes sense, but it's. Being considered when people are looking

1310
01:47:02,495 --> 01:47:06,250
at the capital picture, okay? And do we have the

1311
01:47:06,535 --> 01:47:10,795
opportunity to. Consider. A subsequent five year tax abatement after

1312
01:47:11,120 --> 01:47:13,435
a first one is complete or five years is kind

1313
01:47:13,440 --> 01:47:17,035
of the total maximum. Sorry, Mr. Croy. Yeah. Thank you.

1314
01:47:17,440 --> 01:47:20,035
Mr. Chair, if I may jump. In. Just. I know.

1315
01:47:21,097 --> 01:47:24,412
Ms Manus Thursky with the city solicitor's office. Just as

1316
01:47:24,457 --> 01:47:27,692
a bit of. Point of clarification on some because there

1317
01:47:27,737 --> 01:47:30,532
are tax abatements and there are tax exemptions. Some are

1318
01:47:30,617 --> 01:47:34,841
under the act, some are under the policy. Sometimes. They

1319
01:47:34,886 --> 01:47:39,041
get connected together, but Ms. Menosterski can provide just a

1320
01:47:39,007 --> 01:47:43,320
little bit of clarity. And the opportunity to renew. Any

1321
01:47:43,685 --> 01:47:47,153
tax abatements or exemptions. So just Jody master ski with

1322
01:47:47,198 --> 01:47:49,633
the city solicitors office. So further to what Ms. Lacroix?

1323
01:47:49,998 --> 01:47:56,212
Said. The act does prohibit exemptions. Or limit exemptions to

1324
01:47:56,577 --> 01:48:00,042
five years. Rather than abatements. Abatements. There's a little bit

1325
01:48:00,047 --> 01:48:02,802
more wiggle room. Our policy does state that it's a

1326
01:48:02,807 --> 01:48:05,362
five year term, so it is possible for us. To

1327
01:48:05,407 --> 01:48:06,802
take a look at that and see if it's something

1328
01:48:07,167 --> 01:48:12,495
that we may be able to. Consider. Any other questions?

1329
01:48:16,753 --> 01:48:20,991
Sorry. Just hit your mic there. We had a mic

1330
01:48:21,076 --> 01:48:22,871
on problem earlier. Now we can have a mic off

1331
01:48:22,956 --> 01:48:28,917
problem. And so. We've heard a few comments kind of

1332
01:48:29,322 --> 01:48:32,957
about this program being urgent. We need to get projects

1333
01:48:33,362 --> 01:48:40,054
built started this year. And initiated. Are those some of

1334
01:48:40,059 --> 01:48:46,257
those sorts of details that administration can continue? To explore

1335
01:48:46,582 --> 01:48:49,777
and work on in terms of kind of various rounds

1336
01:48:50,102 --> 01:48:53,782
of putting this out there and also. Our relationship with

1337
01:48:54,107 --> 01:48:56,942
service providers that we are kind of entering into contracts

1338
01:48:56,947 --> 01:49:00,062
with through this funding in our regular affordable housing funding.

1339
01:49:01,188 --> 01:49:03,983
Absolutely. I mean, the area of housing, as we know,

1340
01:49:04,668 --> 01:49:07,063
is a big concern, and we have lots going on

1341
01:49:07,428 --> 01:49:10,063
in it. There are lots of conversations, there are lots

1342
01:49:10,068 --> 01:49:11,823
of things being looked at and so we can continue

1343
01:49:12,228 --> 01:49:15,860
to explore that. And explore what new opportunities come about

1344
01:49:16,305 --> 01:49:21,351
as well. Great. And then in your slide presentation, There

1345
01:49:21,396 --> 01:49:24,671
was a slide that was labeled anticipated process, I think.

1346
01:49:25,859 --> 01:49:27,894
And anticipated jumped out to me for sure, but I'm

1347
01:49:27,899 --> 01:49:31,824
just wanting to confirm. With the approvals in the report

1348
01:49:32,549 --> 01:49:35,584
here, does your team maintain the flexibility to put out

1349
01:49:35,669 --> 01:49:39,264
calls for proposals in a different order, along slightly different

1350
01:49:39,629 --> 01:49:42,744
timelines, depending on what you're seeing. In terms of uptake

1351
01:49:43,029 --> 01:49:45,344
in the various portions of the market that you're looking

1352
01:49:46,069 --> 01:49:48,930
to trigger. With the process that we've laid out here,

1353
01:49:48,975 --> 01:49:51,570
and thank you for putting it back up. On the

1354
01:49:51,655 --> 01:49:55,218
screen. Is where we're building in kind of that flexibility.

1355
01:49:55,543 --> 01:49:57,378
So we see going out with that. First call. We

1356
01:49:57,383 --> 01:49:59,058
need to put that out to the market for a

1357
01:49:59,063 --> 01:50:03,427
little while, give them time. To prepare their documents. So

1358
01:50:03,832 --> 01:50:05,787
we anticipate being able to do that in June, to

1359
01:50:05,832 --> 01:50:07,267
go out, and then they will have some time to

1360
01:50:07,632 --> 01:50:10,707
respond. Depending on what we receive back in that call,

1361
01:50:11,392 --> 01:50:14,587
we would then be able to issue another call. So

1362
01:50:14,632 --> 01:50:16,947
we will do it based on the number of proposals

1363
01:50:17,312 --> 01:50:19,427
we see the number of units. How much of the

1364
01:50:19,472 --> 01:50:23,324
money is that taking up? Are we getting any proposals?

1365
01:50:23,609 --> 01:50:25,604
If we get zero proposals? Well, there's a problem and

1366
01:50:25,889 --> 01:50:31,569
we need to reevaluate. I don't anticipate that in 2025.

1367
01:50:31,934 --> 01:50:34,609
Based on the results of 2024. We go out with

1368
01:50:34,894 --> 01:50:37,129
another call. And again, this is because we get an

1369
01:50:37,214 --> 01:50:40,522
additional round of our money. To allocate to this program

1370
01:50:40,927 --> 01:50:44,802
in 2025. So we would again be looking at what

1371
01:50:44,847 --> 01:50:47,122
results did we get? Do we need to refine anything

1372
01:50:47,527 --> 01:50:50,362
in our call or in our requirements? In our criteria.

1373
01:50:51,355 --> 01:50:54,301
To bring out another call. So we do need to

1374
01:50:54,626 --> 01:50:58,695
build in that time. For the proponents to develop their

1375
01:50:58,740 --> 01:51:02,528
proposals. And also, we are looking to align this with

1376
01:51:02,893 --> 01:51:06,848
other calls, especially from Saskalvin Corp. On their funding, which

1377
01:51:06,893 --> 01:51:08,808
would go in the early part of the new year.

1378
01:51:10,004 --> 01:51:13,812
And. Are we totally blind to kind of what readiness

1379
01:51:14,537 --> 01:51:18,094
there might be? In particular the affordable sector for bringing

1380
01:51:18,139 --> 01:51:21,673
forward projects, or do we have a sense of. Whether

1381
01:51:21,798 --> 01:51:24,993
folks have shovel ready projects, for example, or where folks

1382
01:51:25,278 --> 01:51:27,833
might be at in the development of future projects. I

1383
01:51:27,878 --> 01:51:30,513
think we have a fairly good sense because we have

1384
01:51:30,558 --> 01:51:33,905
been working on the development of our housing strategy. Where

1385
01:51:33,950 --> 01:51:37,825
we have good connections with the nonprofit providers in the

1386
01:51:37,910 --> 01:51:40,025
community, so we have a good sense of quite a

1387
01:51:40,030 --> 01:51:43,225
number of projects that are out there where this funding

1388
01:51:43,470 --> 01:51:45,425
would play a role in. Them being able to proceed.

1389
01:51:46,190 --> 01:51:50,817
Okay. And there was further some conversation about the 20

1390
01:51:50,902 --> 01:51:55,337
year incentives. And I have very vocally asked you about

1391
01:51:55,422 --> 01:51:57,457
whether we would look or sorry. Not the 20 year

1392
01:51:57,502 --> 01:52:00,806
incentives, the 20 year requirements for affordability. Over the many

1393
01:52:00,891 --> 01:52:05,286
months we've been discussing future housing policy and half to

1394
01:52:05,571 --> 01:52:11,764
push towards longer term commitments. For the stability. In the

1395
01:52:11,849 --> 01:52:15,148
housing market and the affordable end of that. In terms

1396
01:52:15,193 --> 01:52:17,828
of what you guys are seeing and the conversations you're

1397
01:52:17,833 --> 01:52:21,068
having with the sector. Do you believe there's additional flexibility

1398
01:52:21,433 --> 01:52:24,428
required in either the metric or the timeline? And is

1399
01:52:24,473 --> 01:52:27,148
that something that's already built into this, or is it

1400
01:52:27,473 --> 01:52:29,828
kind of a hard and fast? Thing that we're setting

1401
01:52:29,833 --> 01:52:33,967
up here. We would put this into our criteria. So

1402
01:52:34,332 --> 01:52:37,567
seeing the timeline of 20 years being one of our

1403
01:52:37,852 --> 01:52:41,200
elements that we evaluate on. Based on a number of

1404
01:52:41,525 --> 01:52:46,099
the providers that. Are currently in place in Saskatoon. They're

1405
01:52:46,104 --> 01:52:48,831
very familiar with a 20 year timeline. It is 20

1406
01:52:49,196 --> 01:52:52,031
years is also used by SHC on a sliding scale

1407
01:52:52,316 --> 01:52:55,911
for their rental development. Program, and many CMHC programs also

1408
01:52:56,276 --> 01:52:59,551
require a 20 year term, so it is very familiar.

1409
01:53:01,377 --> 01:53:03,172
If we were to see that. We did our call

1410
01:53:03,217 --> 01:53:07,132
for proposals and we received zero applicants willing. To do

1411
01:53:07,217 --> 01:53:12,179
20 years, we would reevaluate, okay? We are also building

1412
01:53:12,584 --> 01:53:15,299
in. Similar to what SHC does is you build in

1413
01:53:15,624 --> 01:53:19,299
an annual ability to raise the rates, still maintain them

1414
01:53:19,664 --> 01:53:22,339
within an affordable realm. But you do have the ability

1415
01:53:22,384 --> 01:53:26,379
to change rates. Right? And the shims shift as well.

1416
01:53:27,104 --> 01:53:31,698
The shim shift? Based on what? The. Province determines. So

1417
01:53:31,783 --> 01:53:35,338
some years they change, some years they don't. Okay. And

1418
01:53:35,743 --> 01:53:39,372
in terms of our kind. Of relationship. With providers who

1419
01:53:39,617 --> 01:53:42,052
we'd be entering into a 20 year agreement with, for

1420
01:53:42,057 --> 01:53:46,584
example. What's our ability to kind of be in ongoing

1421
01:53:46,909 --> 01:53:51,358
collaboration with them? We're always evolving the tools that we

1422
01:53:51,363 --> 01:53:53,598
have available, as you said, and we have a housing

1423
01:53:53,643 --> 01:53:56,278
plan coming forward. What is our commitment in terms of

1424
01:53:56,523 --> 01:53:59,278
kind of working with those providers to continue making what

1425
01:53:59,363 --> 01:54:05,553
we've committed to together possible. I think. What we would

1426
01:54:05,598 --> 01:54:09,553
be able to do is to have those ongoing dialogues.

1427
01:54:09,958 --> 01:54:12,713
Part of this will be an ongoing kind of monitoring

1428
01:54:13,038 --> 01:54:16,273
element, so we will maintain those relationships with the providers

1429
01:54:16,998 --> 01:54:19,273
throughout the term. Of that agreement to be able to

1430
01:54:19,318 --> 01:54:21,933
work with them. I think that we are going to

1431
01:54:22,258 --> 01:54:24,853
see a lot of change in this sector, both in

1432
01:54:24,898 --> 01:54:27,933
what the city's role might be, what other levels of

1433
01:54:27,978 --> 01:54:31,053
government are doing as well, and what the providers need.

1434
01:54:31,418 --> 01:54:33,813
So we will have to maintain those relationships. And I

1435
01:54:34,098 --> 01:54:39,865
think that's where. We're absolutely heading. Thank you. And then.

1436
01:54:41,455 --> 01:54:44,210
We heard a little bit about concern related to focusing

1437
01:54:44,495 --> 01:54:47,290
entirely on new builds. I know our commitments. Under the

1438
01:54:47,615 --> 01:54:50,610
half program require us to have those new starts. Is

1439
01:54:50,655 --> 01:54:53,450
your team looking at any potential programs, either through half

1440
01:54:53,815 --> 01:55:00,168
or through. The housing plan. Related to renovations or other

1441
01:55:00,533 --> 01:55:05,508
less capital intensive forms of development. It's definitely an area

1442
01:55:05,593 --> 01:55:08,068
that has come up in the conversations, especially through the

1443
01:55:08,113 --> 01:55:11,188
housing strategy. Development. So it is something that is on

1444
01:55:11,233 --> 01:55:13,508
our radar. It is not one of the initiatives we

1445
01:55:13,833 --> 01:55:18,040
put forward under half. We did identify that that's an

1446
01:55:18,085 --> 01:55:20,840
area of need, and I think the housing sector, especially

1447
01:55:21,205 --> 01:55:24,400
for the affordable housing sector has raised that multiple times

1448
01:55:25,125 --> 01:55:26,960
that that is an area of need for a dedicated

1449
01:55:27,285 --> 01:55:31,864
funding program. So it's something that we don't have a

1450
01:55:31,869 --> 01:55:34,624
current plan for how to address. That, but it will

1451
01:55:34,909 --> 01:55:38,104
be part of those ongoing conversations. Okay. And then finally,

1452
01:55:38,469 --> 01:55:42,695
with respect to. The initiatives under the housing accelerator fund.

1453
01:55:43,852 --> 01:55:45,447
There isn't an outline here about kind of how many

1454
01:55:46,092 --> 01:55:51,017
dollars are going to. Be going into achieving those other

1455
01:55:51,382 --> 01:55:53,217
initiatives. Can you just give us a little bit of

1456
01:55:53,502 --> 01:55:56,824
an update? On the overall. Kind of use of funding

1457
01:55:57,109 --> 01:56:01,664
landscape for half. Absolutely. So our total funding bucket is

1458
01:56:01,989 --> 01:56:09,082
41.35. Million. We've said 35 million towards incentives. 15 million

1459
01:56:09,487 --> 01:56:13,082
of that we've specifically identified. Right. Now for city owned

1460
01:56:13,127 --> 01:56:15,802
land to be able to do the development prep work

1461
01:56:16,567 --> 01:56:21,000
on those sites. So at the time. When we put

1462
01:56:21,045 --> 01:56:23,640
that together, we were still working on just some assumptions

1463
01:56:23,725 --> 01:56:25,520
around sites, and we didn't. Know how much money might

1464
01:56:25,805 --> 01:56:28,839
be needed to make them development ready. If there was

1465
01:56:28,884 --> 01:56:32,462
a site that was contaminated, for example, What steps do

1466
01:56:32,507 --> 01:56:33,942
we have to take and how much does that cost?

1467
01:56:34,307 --> 01:56:38,317
So we built in. A fairly big bucket there. If

1468
01:56:38,402 --> 01:56:40,997
funding is not needed to support that work, then we

1469
01:56:41,002 --> 01:56:44,677
would move it to the general incentives. So 35 million

1470
01:56:45,082 --> 01:56:49,397
total for incentives, including that 15 million, the remaining dollars.

1471
01:56:49,882 --> 01:56:53,570
Are being put towards all of our other initiatives. The

1472
01:56:53,615 --> 01:56:57,610
main dollars spent there are for the staff to do

1473
01:56:57,615 --> 01:57:02,483
the work, to make all the changes. We're making. The

1474
01:57:02,608 --> 01:57:05,363
advertising, all of those kinds of things. Whatever money we

1475
01:57:05,728 --> 01:57:08,723
don't spend, we will reallocate to another initiative. But we

1476
01:57:08,808 --> 01:57:11,923
need to complete the initiatives. Some of them require some

1477
01:57:12,248 --> 01:57:16,646
dollars. To do that. Okay, so, in short. The line

1478
01:57:16,771 --> 01:57:18,126
items that have been assigned to some of the other

1479
01:57:18,491 --> 01:57:22,700
initiatives. Are our best estimates. We're our best estimates at

1480
01:57:22,705 --> 01:57:26,268
the time of application. And if there's anything left? We

1481
01:57:26,273 --> 01:57:28,708
will reallocate it to incentives. We have to spend all

1482
01:57:28,993 --> 01:57:31,668
of the money that we receive under this program in

1483
01:57:31,713 --> 01:57:34,784
the timeline of the program. So we will put that

1484
01:57:35,509 --> 01:57:37,424
if there is more money coming, and we need to

1485
01:57:37,429 --> 01:57:40,544
put it towards the development incentives, then we will do

1486
01:57:40,549 --> 01:57:43,584
that. If there is a site that requires additional dollars

1487
01:57:43,949 --> 01:57:46,624
to get it up to development ready state, then we

1488
01:57:46,669 --> 01:57:50,324
will do that. We will be reporting on an ongoing

1489
01:57:50,609 --> 01:57:55,257
manner to council on status. Okay, thank you. Next we

1490
01:57:55,342 --> 01:57:59,500
have your. One question I wanted to follow up on

1491
01:58:00,185 --> 01:58:06,603
was regarding the city owned land incentive. Because I'm still

1492
01:58:06,928 --> 01:58:11,578
wanting to make sure I understand, but. There's 50,000 as

1493
01:58:11,623 --> 01:58:15,138
opposed to 27,000 in the case of city own. Land.

1494
01:58:15,943 --> 01:58:18,458
Some of the speakers raised the question of whether this

1495
01:58:18,863 --> 01:58:22,791
is just. A way of essentially paying ourselves back for

1496
01:58:23,036 --> 01:58:25,791
the land. I know we've already debated how. To deal

1497
01:58:26,116 --> 01:58:28,511
with city owned land. Can you speak a little bit

1498
01:58:28,876 --> 01:58:33,514
more to. How the grant is structured. And to what

1499
01:58:33,919 --> 01:58:37,994
extent we are expecting to recoup market based costs on

1500
01:58:38,719 --> 01:58:41,074
those or when we make those decisions? Because I know

1501
01:58:41,359 --> 01:58:44,154
there's reports coming back on that. Yeah, so, right. Now,

1502
01:58:44,839 --> 01:58:48,154
what our intention with the incentive is, is to recognize

1503
01:58:48,519 --> 01:58:53,256
that we are going to have additional requirements. For developments

1504
01:58:53,501 --> 01:58:56,631
on the city owned land site, so. We are going

1505
01:58:56,956 --> 01:58:59,871
to specify we are looking for at least x number

1506
01:59:00,236 --> 01:59:03,751
of units, for example, or we're looking for x number

1507
01:59:04,076 --> 01:59:06,751
of large family units, those kinds of things. So we

1508
01:59:06,796 --> 01:59:10,351
are. Going to have higher requirements that we're putting on

1509
01:59:10,396 --> 01:59:14,148
those sites right now because. We don't have a final

1510
01:59:14,553 --> 01:59:17,188
decision from council on how we're going to proceed. With

1511
01:59:17,513 --> 01:59:20,868
the city owned parcels. I can't give an exact answer

1512
01:59:21,633 --> 01:59:26,481
on how those dollars might be used. We would anticipate

1513
01:59:26,526 --> 01:59:31,621
that if we're assigning a 50,000 per unit. Grant on

1514
01:59:31,986 --> 01:59:35,941
that parcel. It goes towards eligible capital costs from the

1515
01:59:36,306 --> 01:59:41,430
proponent. And land costs could be part of that. But

1516
01:59:41,795 --> 01:59:44,190
if, for example, the decision is that we have a

1517
01:59:44,195 --> 01:59:48,648
city owned parcel that's $0. They may still be using

1518
01:59:48,693 --> 01:59:51,848
that 50,000 per door for capital costs on that project,

1519
01:59:52,253 --> 01:59:55,768
so. It's not an intentional effort to bring money back

1520
01:59:56,093 --> 01:59:57,968
to the city for the cost of city owned land.

1521
01:59:59,561 --> 02:00:03,633
So the 50 is tied to. Higher requirements. Demands or

1522
02:00:03,718 --> 02:00:09,151
requirements not to land costs. And. We'll have a further

1523
02:00:09,516 --> 02:00:12,671
conversation about the land hospital. So if we were, for

1524
02:00:13,036 --> 02:00:16,993
example. To offer the land at a dollar. Perhaps we

1525
02:00:17,038 --> 02:00:20,073
don't need to offer $50,000. Per door. But perhaps we

1526
02:00:20,078 --> 02:00:23,153
do because we're looking for something very complex. Right. Okay.

1527
02:00:23,918 --> 02:00:28,124
I appreciate that clarification. It may be good in future

1528
02:00:28,529 --> 02:00:31,804
reporting to make that a bit more explicit, because you

1529
02:00:31,809 --> 02:00:34,204
could read it a different way. So, anyway, but thank

1530
02:00:34,249 --> 02:00:42,472
you. Councilor jeffries. Thank you, chair Davies and I had

1531
02:00:42,517 --> 02:00:46,472
a very similar question, and just as I wasn't, necessarily

1532
02:00:46,557 --> 02:00:48,752
clear from the report around the city owned land. So

1533
02:00:49,117 --> 02:00:53,532
to be clear, The idea here. Isn't about essentially having

1534
02:00:53,817 --> 02:00:57,012
a higher incentive in order to maybe move the city

1535
02:00:57,737 --> 02:01:03,008
sites more. Quickly. This is. About having. A trying to

1536
02:01:03,253 --> 02:01:06,048
think of the right term here, but having more requirements

1537
02:01:06,453 --> 02:01:12,976
or having. Perhaps things that are not being provided. As

1538
02:01:13,061 --> 02:01:17,794
much in the market. That require additional financial support or

1539
02:01:17,839 --> 02:01:19,674
incentive in order to get them across the finish line

1540
02:01:19,999 --> 02:01:22,234
is that a fair statement? Yes, I would say so.

1541
02:01:23,079 --> 02:01:30,284
Okay. Can you, Miss Anderson, speak to. I guess what

1542
02:01:30,329 --> 02:01:32,124
I'm trying to understand is when I look at some

1543
02:01:32,129 --> 02:01:34,884
of the incentives, here on the affordable piece, and I

1544
02:01:35,169 --> 02:01:38,004
see those as I think the number was $27,000. Per

1545
02:01:38,329 --> 02:01:43,183
unit, plus some other pieces there around, permitting. And then

1546
02:01:43,588 --> 02:01:47,543
for the corridor growth areas and other areas, $10,000 per

1547
02:01:47,588 --> 02:01:51,873
unit. Can you speak to the work that you and

1548
02:01:51,918 --> 02:01:56,865
your team did? To actually identify. The number you felt

1549
02:01:57,190 --> 02:02:00,145
that was actually going to perhaps get some projects across

1550
02:02:00,270 --> 02:02:04,772
the finish line. As opposed to. Not. I guess I'm

1551
02:02:04,777 --> 02:02:09,756
just trying to understand. The specific numbers that were landed

1552
02:02:10,121 --> 02:02:14,396
upon here. Because, of course, the goal is, as we

1553
02:02:14,441 --> 02:02:18,036
all know, across the board to actually get more units

1554
02:02:18,081 --> 02:02:20,716
built, not simply to provide an incentive to something that

1555
02:02:21,081 --> 02:02:24,236
already was likely going to be financially viable or get

1556
02:02:24,561 --> 02:02:27,269
built in the first place. I'm wanting to better understand

1557
02:02:28,074 --> 02:02:30,389
that process of figuring out what those numbers would be

1558
02:02:31,034 --> 02:02:35,033
to get more things across the finish line. Sure. And

1559
02:02:35,398 --> 02:02:37,353
it's a bit of a difficult question because we were

1560
02:02:37,718 --> 02:02:40,113
looking at it in terms of how can we stretch

1561
02:02:40,798 --> 02:02:43,153
the dollars as much as possible to get as many

1562
02:02:43,478 --> 02:02:46,633
units possible? So that was part of what we factored

1563
02:02:46,678 --> 02:02:49,593
in in terms of we need to hit a certain

1564
02:02:49,718 --> 02:02:53,233
number of baseline units, which is where our three to.

1565
02:02:54,579 --> 02:02:56,934
Five year trend was prior to the half money. And

1566
02:02:56,939 --> 02:02:59,454
then we need to add additional units on top. So

1567
02:02:59,859 --> 02:03:01,814
we wanted to try to stretch the dollars where we

1568
02:03:01,859 --> 02:03:06,156
could. And then we were also looking at. Bringing more

1569
02:03:06,521 --> 02:03:08,396
to the table than we have perhaps in the past.

1570
02:03:09,943 --> 02:03:13,619
The 27,000 per door. Would basically be a matching contribution

1571
02:03:13,984 --> 02:03:18,419
to what the province typically provides under their programs for

1572
02:03:18,464 --> 02:03:22,626
a unit. So it was an element of can we

1573
02:03:22,991 --> 02:03:26,626
both come to the table with that same amount to

1574
02:03:26,951 --> 02:03:31,188
provide for these developments to move ahead. In terms of

1575
02:03:31,193 --> 02:03:34,708
the 10,000 we were looking there because it is market

1576
02:03:35,193 --> 02:03:40,136
rental. Where we're trying to drive them to particular locations.

1577
02:03:41,278 --> 02:03:43,633
That they might already be viable, but we want them

1578
02:03:43,958 --> 02:03:46,793
in specific areas, so providing a lesser dollar. Value to

1579
02:03:47,118 --> 02:03:49,433
those and also because they're not hitting the affordable market.

1580
02:03:50,680 --> 02:03:53,195
So that's some of the rationale that went there, but.

1581
02:03:55,053 --> 02:03:59,070
We weren't looking at these dollars as. Fully making the

1582
02:03:59,075 --> 02:04:04,621
business plans work. For these developments, many of them have

1583
02:04:04,986 --> 02:04:08,541
to bring together multiple layers of government funding to make

1584
02:04:08,906 --> 02:04:12,501
them work and $27,000 per door. As you heard, several

1585
02:04:12,826 --> 02:04:16,021
of the speakers lets them go. To those other governments

1586
02:04:16,306 --> 02:04:18,680
and say, look, we have something. We're going to be

1587
02:04:18,924 --> 02:04:20,949
able to move forward. Can you come to the table

1588
02:04:21,354 --> 02:04:24,895
as well? The $10,000 a door on the market rental

1589
02:04:24,900 --> 02:04:29,295
is purely an incentive, and in the background. The many

1590
02:04:29,660 --> 02:04:32,455
years where we've done incentives, our incentives have never been.

1591
02:04:33,433 --> 02:04:36,890
Intended to make the business case work. So I think.

1592
02:04:39,343 --> 02:04:42,545
There is definitely. Some piece there where this is purely

1593
02:04:42,910 --> 02:04:46,465
an incentive to help drive towards our goal, not to

1594
02:04:46,470 --> 02:04:50,785
make the business plan work 100% for development. Sure, that's

1595
02:04:50,790 --> 02:04:55,259
fair. And I appreciate the context. Around that. In thinking,

1596
02:04:55,344 --> 02:04:59,810
just back to the city owned land piece. What would

1597
02:05:00,215 --> 02:05:06,339
have prevented. Administration from bringing forward. A higher level incentive,

1598
02:05:06,424 --> 02:05:12,219
like $50,000 per unit, based on something that was broader

1599
02:05:12,904 --> 02:05:17,525
and having more criteria in place. For it. But not

1600
02:05:17,930 --> 02:05:21,412
limiting that to city owned land, because, of course, It

1601
02:05:21,457 --> 02:05:24,939
is possible to achieve. All of those other things on

1602
02:05:25,304 --> 02:05:28,019
things, on sites that aren't owned by the city. I'm

1603
02:05:27,984 --> 02:05:31,579
just trying to understand better, perhaps, why the decision was

1604
02:05:31,584 --> 02:05:37,836
made. To recommend. Sending folks in that direction as opposed

1605
02:05:37,881 --> 02:05:43,842
to. Other sites that might be viable and could actually

1606
02:05:44,127 --> 02:05:47,076
meet the same goals that we're looking. For. I think

1607
02:05:47,401 --> 02:05:49,356
I understand your question, so I will try to answer

1608
02:05:49,761 --> 02:05:54,032
it. So. We were looking at one the additional requirements

1609
02:05:54,397 --> 02:05:56,992
we could put on because we own the land and

1610
02:05:57,277 --> 02:06:00,472
would look at a contract through sale, potentially, depending on

1611
02:06:00,517 --> 02:06:03,672
what council determines where we have additional triggers. That we

1612
02:06:03,997 --> 02:06:06,749
can put there. So that little bit of extra control,

1613
02:06:07,474 --> 02:06:10,309
we felt, was a way we can add additional requirements.

1614
02:06:11,395 --> 02:06:14,092
The other piece is. Because we have such a tight

1615
02:06:14,417 --> 02:06:17,212
timeline to actually produce new units, we have to have

1616
02:06:17,537 --> 02:06:19,892
final building. Permits issued within the term of this program.

1617
02:06:20,657 --> 02:06:23,732
So it's a very tight timeline, and we felt that

1618
02:06:23,777 --> 02:06:25,972
on the city owned land, at least on some of

1619
02:06:25,977 --> 02:06:28,252
the parcels, we will have the ability to get those

1620
02:06:28,657 --> 02:06:32,092
out fairly quickly and to drive the applicants on that

1621
02:06:32,137 --> 02:06:36,091
to meet the terms. Quickly. So just having those additional

1622
02:06:36,176 --> 02:06:41,676
elements of control. We felt. Were relevant to asking them

1623
02:06:41,721 --> 02:06:45,196
to do more and to giving them additional dollars to

1624
02:06:45,241 --> 02:06:49,528
do that. Okay. So it would be fair to say,

1625
02:06:49,893 --> 02:06:56,995
based on your comments, That. A significant. Portion of that

1626
02:06:57,080 --> 02:06:59,795
decision around the recommendation that's in front of us was

1627
02:07:00,160 --> 02:07:03,755
tied to the really tight timeline that we have under

1628
02:07:04,200 --> 02:07:07,224
half. Not so much that there's something special about the

1629
02:07:07,269 --> 02:07:09,984
city sites other than the ability to have that control.

1630
02:07:11,084 --> 02:07:15,079
And then drive the development within the identified timelines. I

1631
02:07:15,124 --> 02:07:18,322
think that's correct, yeah. Okay. I think that's all I

1632
02:07:18,327 --> 02:07:24,238
have for questions. Thank you, chair. Councilor block. Thanks, chair

1633
02:07:24,323 --> 02:07:28,576
Davies. Ms. Anderson. I think just a couple of questions

1634
02:07:28,941 --> 02:07:31,296
left, and I wanted to just be a little more

1635
02:07:31,701 --> 02:07:36,096
clear. On those additional triggers on city land, and apologies

1636
02:07:36,381 --> 02:07:37,856
if I missed it. If you could just explain. That

1637
02:07:37,901 --> 02:07:41,343
a bit more. So one of our abilities on a

1638
02:07:41,348 --> 02:07:44,583
city owned property, whether we sell it fully or we

1639
02:07:44,868 --> 02:07:47,990
lease. It or whatever we do. We have a contract.

1640
02:07:50,099 --> 02:07:52,814
Through that sale or that lease. And so that gives

1641
02:07:52,859 --> 02:07:56,854
us an additional negotiating room or negotiating power. To say

1642
02:07:57,539 --> 02:08:00,334
we want X, Y and Z added into this and

1643
02:08:00,659 --> 02:08:03,294
that you need to meet this. Whereas if someone is

1644
02:08:03,339 --> 02:08:06,534
coming to us, bringing their own privately held site that

1645
02:08:06,819 --> 02:08:10,389
they already own, we don't have that same. Power. So

1646
02:08:11,034 --> 02:08:15,080
we're able to say. Here are our requirements under this

1647
02:08:15,125 --> 02:08:17,840
funding contract, but it's not quite the same level of

1648
02:08:18,245 --> 02:08:21,440
negotiating power to say we require other things as well.

1649
02:08:22,686 --> 02:08:24,481
I think what I'm trying to get at is what

1650
02:08:24,526 --> 02:08:28,494
problem are we trying to solve? That the folks that

1651
02:08:28,539 --> 02:08:31,694
would otherwise come forward would already have in place understanding

1652
02:08:31,739 --> 02:08:35,174
what the needs are. So part of it might be

1653
02:08:35,939 --> 02:08:41,061
additional requirements beyond what the zoning requires. Where when we

1654
02:08:41,106 --> 02:08:43,741
look at city owned land, we may ask them for

1655
02:08:44,546 --> 02:08:49,261
more different site development or different architectural pieces, which we

1656
02:08:49,306 --> 02:08:52,461
couldn't ask them for under the zoning, so it gives

1657
02:08:52,506 --> 02:08:55,892
us just some additional tools. Are there any other tools?

1658
02:08:56,137 --> 02:08:57,972
I guess I'm just curious what this looks like. Is

1659
02:08:58,017 --> 02:09:00,332
it? Some of them might be more for families. Or

1660
02:09:00,937 --> 02:09:04,172
is there an obligation for more green space around the

1661
02:09:04,217 --> 02:09:06,944
facility. Those are some of the pieces that would be

1662
02:09:07,229 --> 02:09:11,749
built out for city owned land. To understand, on this

1663
02:09:11,794 --> 02:09:15,389
particular site, we see more opportunity for more green space

1664
02:09:15,834 --> 02:09:18,959
or for more family. Units. So I think each site

1665
02:09:19,364 --> 02:09:21,599
that we consider under city owned land would likely have.

1666
02:09:23,232 --> 02:09:27,168
Be a different part of the puzzle. So one site

1667
02:09:27,933 --> 02:09:32,478
may be families, one site may be large families. Ones

1668
02:09:32,883 --> 02:09:34,398
that may not be family size. It might be one

1669
02:09:34,723 --> 02:09:38,278
in two bedrooms. Okay, that makes sense. And so just

1670
02:09:38,723 --> 02:09:42,586
one other area that I wanted to ask about. Through

1671
02:09:42,991 --> 02:09:46,929
the chair. I think I understand that these products must

1672
02:09:47,014 --> 02:09:51,953
be new based on half. What isn't clear to me,

1673
02:09:51,998 --> 02:09:54,673
and maybe I just need a refresher, is if or

1674
02:09:54,958 --> 02:09:58,273
how the city is considering what those incentives might look

1675
02:09:58,598 --> 02:10:02,838
like in terms of. The city's levers to pull for

1676
02:10:03,163 --> 02:10:07,135
conversions of existing. Whether that's in the downtown or elsewhere,

1677
02:10:07,500 --> 02:10:11,975
but looking to accelerate housing through other tools outside of

1678
02:10:12,700 --> 02:10:17,060
half. Just for clarity, when you're saying conversion of existing,

1679
02:10:17,105 --> 02:10:22,119
like an existing building, that's. Not residential currently. I think

1680
02:10:22,124 --> 02:10:25,602
that was one that I was curious about. And some

1681
02:10:25,607 --> 02:10:29,208
of the speakers talk today about. Buildings that don't seem

1682
02:10:29,573 --> 02:10:33,441
to be occupied by anybody. So there's a couple of

1683
02:10:33,446 --> 02:10:38,936
different things, I guess. When I heard the speaker mentioning

1684
02:10:38,981 --> 02:10:40,776
that I was thinking about one of our other initiatives

1685
02:10:41,181 --> 02:10:46,368
under half that is around. Disincentive program for vacant and

1686
02:10:46,413 --> 02:10:50,408
boarded up buildings. So that is a separate program that's

1687
02:10:50,453 --> 02:10:55,481
being developed. With sastium fire to address kind of. The

1688
02:10:55,526 --> 02:10:58,601
existing homes and buildings that are out there that maybe

1689
02:10:58,686 --> 02:11:01,921
are vacant and boarded up, dilapidated and could be used

1690
02:11:02,246 --> 02:11:04,841
for better uses. So that's something that Sastin Fire is

1691
02:11:04,926 --> 02:11:09,721
currently investigating. And developing a program for that. We anticipate

1692
02:11:09,806 --> 02:11:12,361
that will be in the next year. That we'll have

1693
02:11:12,766 --> 02:11:17,203
something to consider there for council. In terms of the

1694
02:11:17,248 --> 02:11:22,626
other pieces for conversion. We have through our vacant lot

1695
02:11:22,751 --> 02:11:26,146
program. We have an allowance for conversion of a non

1696
02:11:26,191 --> 02:11:29,826
residential building. To a residential building and incentives available for

1697
02:11:29,831 --> 02:11:34,021
that. If someone was to take an office building or.

1698
02:11:37,134 --> 02:11:39,769
Some non residential use and make it into residential. That

1699
02:11:39,774 --> 02:11:42,049
would likely meet a requirement for a new unit under

1700
02:11:42,494 --> 02:11:46,831
half. It's not a current residential unit. We cannot consider

1701
02:11:47,276 --> 02:11:52,592
current residential units unless they have been completely removed. From

1702
02:11:52,717 --> 02:11:55,352
being able to be inhabited, so they have to have

1703
02:11:55,677 --> 02:11:59,531
orders on them. No one living in them. Unavailable in

1704
02:11:59,576 --> 02:12:04,239
the market. That's very helpful. Do we have a plan,

1705
02:12:04,924 --> 02:12:08,519
or are we making this widely known in the business

1706
02:12:08,884 --> 02:12:14,317
community so they are aware. Around conversion of existing buildings

1707
02:12:14,642 --> 02:12:17,437
under half. It's not something where we targeted a lot

1708
02:12:17,403 --> 02:12:19,517
of units, because we do see it taking quite a

1709
02:12:19,522 --> 02:12:22,348
lot of time. City of Calgary has a very aggressive

1710
02:12:22,673 --> 02:12:25,308
program for conversion of office buildings to residential, and it

1711
02:12:25,313 --> 02:12:27,188
takes quite a bit of time to do that, so

1712
02:12:27,513 --> 02:12:30,628
it's not something that we have been heavily promoting under

1713
02:12:31,113 --> 02:12:34,792
half. Okay, so what you're saying is it's available. Impossible.

1714
02:12:35,157 --> 02:12:37,832
And that may be something. That we develop more depending

1715
02:12:37,837 --> 02:12:40,352
on how this first space goes. That would be a

1716
02:12:40,397 --> 02:12:44,803
good statement, yeah. Okay. Thank you very much. Council, Lawrence.

1717
02:12:47,385 --> 02:12:50,100
Thank you, Chair Davies. I have a couple of questions

1718
02:12:50,465 --> 02:12:52,260
left. Most have been addressed, and these are kind of

1719
02:12:52,265 --> 02:12:55,282
all over the place, so bear with me. The report

1720
02:12:55,807 --> 02:13:04,357
refers to the priority areas, including. The quarter growth areas,

1721
02:13:04,722 --> 02:13:08,389
and I'm just not clear whether or not. The definition

1722
02:13:08,794 --> 02:13:14,481
of those priority areas. Includes our own internal quarter planning

1723
02:13:15,166 --> 02:13:18,681
criteria, or the TDA. That's part of the broader half

1724
02:13:18,806 --> 02:13:22,641
picture. I'm just curious to know, are we using our.

1725
02:13:23,903 --> 02:13:27,258
Definition or the federal definition? We have been using our

1726
02:13:27,343 --> 02:13:31,451
definition. Okay, that's good to know. We heard from some

1727
02:13:31,496 --> 02:13:34,685
of the speakers. In the context of the long term

1728
02:13:35,010 --> 02:13:38,661
affordability piece. Like things that keep operating costs low. And

1729
02:13:38,706 --> 02:13:44,020
so I'm wondering if administration considered. Including some incentives targeted

1730
02:13:44,305 --> 02:13:48,246
around sustainability. And the capital builds as part of this

1731
02:13:48,291 --> 02:13:53,073
package. We will include sustainability in the criteria for evaluation.

1732
02:13:54,079 --> 02:13:59,045
We typically don't see that as being. A key element

1733
02:13:59,410 --> 02:14:02,605
that drives the business plan for some of these projects.

1734
02:14:03,839 --> 02:14:06,434
For example, we know in our vacant law program it

1735
02:14:06,479 --> 02:14:10,034
is part of our criteria, but it's. Not something that

1736
02:14:10,759 --> 02:14:14,001
typically gets them over the goal line. We do see

1737
02:14:14,406 --> 02:14:19,525
projects, considering some elements of that. In their project development.

1738
02:14:20,623 --> 02:14:22,978
They, of course, have to meet the minimum standards, including

1739
02:14:23,063 --> 02:14:26,231
energy efficiency and those types of things. There are other

1740
02:14:26,636 --> 02:14:28,511
programs that also look at that, that we do try

1741
02:14:28,796 --> 02:14:31,391
to connect them with other colleagues in the organization. We

1742
02:14:31,436 --> 02:14:34,991
connect them with and other federal programs as well, okay?

1743
02:14:36,574 --> 02:14:38,489
Can you just say a little bit more about. You

1744
02:14:38,534 --> 02:14:40,649
mentioned that it would form part of the criteria, and

1745
02:14:40,734 --> 02:14:44,569
can you expand on how that criteria would be sort

1746
02:14:44,574 --> 02:14:51,089
of informed or created? So based on after this report

1747
02:14:51,414 --> 02:14:53,329
goes to council and whatever the results are at that

1748
02:14:53,374 --> 02:14:56,950
point in time we will be. Taking the criteria that

1749
02:14:56,955 --> 02:14:59,750
we've outlined in this plan. So, for example, on the

1750
02:15:00,035 --> 02:15:03,518
affordable it includes. The size, the type, the accessibility, the

1751
02:15:03,563 --> 02:15:05,878
level of affordability. And those are some key aspects of

1752
02:15:06,243 --> 02:15:10,078
it. We will also be looking at the proponent and

1753
02:15:10,403 --> 02:15:13,288
their qualifications. How long have they been around? What are

1754
02:15:13,293 --> 02:15:15,608
they willing to do for the term of affordability, for

1755
02:15:15,653 --> 02:15:19,543
example? So sustainability, but would be another element in there

1756
02:15:19,588 --> 02:15:21,743
that we look at and we ask them to explain

1757
02:15:21,828 --> 02:15:24,783
in their proposal how they would address that and what

1758
02:15:24,788 --> 02:15:29,151
they're considering, and then we'll have. A point scoring evaluation

1759
02:15:29,276 --> 02:15:33,230
on each criteria, okay? I think the last question I

1760
02:15:33,235 --> 02:15:38,670
have. Is. It's sort of only peripherally related to the

1761
02:15:38,715 --> 02:15:41,710
incentives, and so if this is best, asked and answered

1762
02:15:41,755 --> 02:15:44,834
at a different point. Please let me know. But after

1763
02:15:45,239 --> 02:15:50,887
our last conversation about identifying city owned land, And sites

1764
02:15:50,932 --> 02:15:54,047
that could be leveraged. I got some questions about some

1765
02:15:54,372 --> 02:15:58,533
of our long term. Lease land holdings and whether or

1766
02:15:58,538 --> 02:16:02,053
not that was captured in sort of the scan of

1767
02:16:02,698 --> 02:16:05,933
possible lands. And so I'm wondering if administration has been

1768
02:16:06,018 --> 02:16:11,653
considering those lands as part of city owned lands in

1769
02:16:11,698 --> 02:16:16,809
this context. In our initial scan, it was not. But

1770
02:16:16,894 --> 02:16:19,129
definitely coming up with that idea, I think was a

1771
02:16:19,134 --> 02:16:21,769
good one. And it is something we will continue to

1772
02:16:21,814 --> 02:16:24,569
look at. We haven't done a really deep dive on

1773
02:16:24,574 --> 02:16:27,249
that yet. There simply hasn't been time to do that.

1774
02:16:28,446 --> 02:16:32,041
But there are multiple long term leases held with multiple

1775
02:16:32,086 --> 02:16:35,121
groups and actually administered by different groups in the organization

1776
02:16:35,526 --> 02:16:37,641
as well, so it will require a fair amount of

1777
02:16:37,686 --> 02:16:41,710
coordination to investigate that option. But. We have it noted.

1778
02:16:42,075 --> 02:16:44,430
So is that something that the administration is sort of

1779
02:16:44,795 --> 02:16:47,350
planning to do in the background, or is that just

1780
02:16:47,435 --> 02:16:51,988
not possible with. The demands that are presently on your

1781
02:16:52,073 --> 02:16:54,713
plate. It's definitely not in our work plan for the

1782
02:16:54,998 --> 02:16:58,710
next couple of months. Yeah, for sure. But I think

1783
02:16:58,955 --> 02:17:00,870
it is a real opportunity for us to look at.

1784
02:17:00,915 --> 02:17:04,809
So it will be on the list. Definitely. I would

1785
02:17:04,814 --> 02:17:09,147
say we'll start something on that this year. Okay, but

1786
02:17:09,232 --> 02:17:13,127
again, With long term leases would have agreement implications and

1787
02:17:13,172 --> 02:17:16,167
all those types of things. Yeah. Okay, I think I'd

1788
02:17:16,212 --> 02:17:18,727
be very interested to hear more about how you plan

1789
02:17:18,812 --> 02:17:20,567
to sort of investigate that. But we can take that

1790
02:17:20,652 --> 02:17:24,347
offline. Okay. Thank you. I think that's it for questions.

1791
02:17:27,140 --> 02:17:30,069
So you're off the hot seat. We'll open up for

1792
02:17:30,434 --> 02:17:35,269
comments. Any comments. And we do have one recommendation, your

1793
02:17:35,354 --> 02:17:40,593
worship. Well, I'll move the recommendation. I know not everybody

1794
02:17:40,958 --> 02:17:43,233
who spoke is still with us, but. I do want

1795
02:17:43,238 --> 02:17:46,553
to thank everybody for coming and engaging on this. And

1796
02:17:46,638 --> 02:17:49,633
I remember the meeting at station 20 west, too. That

1797
02:17:49,718 --> 02:17:53,273
I think Karen, you mentioned, and I really believe it's

1798
02:17:53,558 --> 02:17:55,553
paid. Off. There has not been a lot of time

1799
02:17:55,918 --> 02:18:00,119
to come up. With. A strategy around this, and there's

1800
02:18:00,444 --> 02:18:03,399
lots of options and lots of ways that men could

1801
02:18:03,444 --> 02:18:09,629
have developed this plan, I think. It's commendable that. We've

1802
02:18:09,674 --> 02:18:13,686
got. The support. While maybe not perfect, And recognizing there

1803
02:18:13,731 --> 02:18:17,166
isn't a perfect formula, that we're hearing that this has

1804
02:18:17,211 --> 02:18:20,033
the potential to really make a difference. In our ability

1805
02:18:20,358 --> 02:18:23,993
to get that badly needed housing out there. And the

1806
02:18:24,358 --> 02:18:29,743
strategy to focus on housing, that is. On the more

1807
02:18:29,828 --> 02:18:33,914
affordable side. I believe is a really key way of

1808
02:18:34,359 --> 02:18:40,258
addressing the whole continuum. And also helping us to address

1809
02:18:41,023 --> 02:18:44,698
what's an urging crisis in our community. That's ongoing around

1810
02:18:45,063 --> 02:18:49,419
homelessness and addictions and all of these issues. And the

1811
02:18:49,504 --> 02:18:54,775
level of engagement we're seeing. From providers and partners in

1812
02:18:54,780 --> 02:18:57,615
the sector is very promising to help us keep moving

1813
02:18:57,980 --> 02:18:59,895
this forward and I think what we heard from you,

1814
02:19:00,180 --> 02:19:03,655
Ms. Anderson, is the flexibility that is implied in the

1815
02:19:03,980 --> 02:19:06,335
board. Going to be able to go out, put this

1816
02:19:06,380 --> 02:19:10,855
package out there, hear feedback, see what gets taken. Up.

1817
02:19:12,334 --> 02:19:15,352
And also make adjustments. So. I just really want to

1818
02:19:15,717 --> 02:19:20,370
thank the team. Within the city and also the partners

1819
02:19:20,415 --> 02:19:26,992
and providers. And housing industry representatives. Who've really informed this.

1820
02:19:27,757 --> 02:19:31,585
We need to get more housing built badly. And we

1821
02:19:31,590 --> 02:19:33,825
need to get as many of the options out there

1822
02:19:33,910 --> 02:19:36,505
as possible as quickly as we can. And if this

1823
02:19:36,870 --> 02:19:39,225
can be that catalyst to accelerate it, as the title

1824
02:19:39,630 --> 02:19:43,332
says. Then that'll be a great thing for the whole

1825
02:19:43,457 --> 02:19:46,012
community. So I really want to thank everyone for all

1826
02:19:46,057 --> 02:19:50,605
the work on this great councilor goff. Thanks for Davies.

1827
02:19:50,890 --> 02:19:53,285
I think Mayor Clark covered it well. I also think

1828
02:19:53,970 --> 02:19:57,085
it's important to reiterate. One point that's been discussed here

1829
02:19:57,170 --> 02:20:02,031
today and another that. I'll share. One is that we

1830
02:20:02,076 --> 02:20:05,965
need all orders of government contributing to projects. And some

1831
02:20:06,010 --> 02:20:11,713
of the contributors. Are unexpected or not what we necessarily

1832
02:20:11,798 --> 02:20:15,353
think of around housing. For instance, the federation of canadian

1833
02:20:15,638 --> 02:20:18,913
municipalities administer some funds that can be directed towards housing

1834
02:20:19,158 --> 02:20:22,353
around sustainability and that sort of thing. But what we're

1835
02:20:22,358 --> 02:20:25,433
looking at here is also federal dollars being administered by

1836
02:20:25,478 --> 02:20:29,978
the city, and so. We need to remain focused on

1837
02:20:30,263 --> 02:20:32,098
what it looks like for the city to truly have

1838
02:20:32,183 --> 02:20:34,608
skin in. This game. And so far we are talking

1839
02:20:34,893 --> 02:20:37,648
about that in the form of city owned parcels and

1840
02:20:37,693 --> 02:20:40,688
making those available. And, of course, the tremendous work of

1841
02:20:40,693 --> 02:20:43,768
our staff in putting these incentives together and administering them.

1842
02:20:44,053 --> 02:20:47,095
And that sort of thing. We made some good investments.

1843
02:20:48,222 --> 02:20:50,577
In the last budget around the capacity of our team

1844
02:20:50,902 --> 02:20:53,937
to do this work, to oversee these agreements. Over the

1845
02:20:53,982 --> 02:20:56,217
long term, that sort of thing. We also need to

1846
02:20:56,222 --> 02:20:59,777
continue talking about what our investment in the operation of

1847
02:21:00,102 --> 02:21:01,977
these programs. Looks like over the longer term we have

1848
02:21:02,262 --> 02:21:05,771
housing strategy coming. And we're going to need to continue

1849
02:21:06,136 --> 02:21:07,971
to be a partner on this stuff, so I think?

1850
02:21:10,401 --> 02:21:14,382
We really need to recognize that. Yes. This is an

1851
02:21:14,427 --> 02:21:17,142
important contribution from this city. But there are other roles

1852
02:21:17,187 --> 02:21:19,782
we need to continue playing. And continue exploring all of

1853
02:21:19,787 --> 02:21:22,502
the tools that have been discussed today, including property tax

1854
02:21:22,867 --> 02:21:26,542
incentives and abatements and that sort of thing. So eager

1855
02:21:26,827 --> 02:21:30,612
to see this move forward. Grateful to everybody who's put

1856
02:21:30,977 --> 02:21:33,422
in the work. To figure out how to get this

1857
02:21:33,787 --> 02:21:36,549
moving quickly and in a way that. Is going to

1858
02:21:37,514 --> 02:21:43,630
be used and be usable. And also understanding that those

1859
02:21:43,675 --> 02:21:47,605
same folks. Have hard work ahead to bring forward the

1860
02:21:47,610 --> 02:21:49,405
rest of the work that the city needs to do.

1861
02:21:50,527 --> 02:21:53,796
On this front. Thanks. Great. So that item has been

1862
02:21:53,841 --> 02:21:56,396
moved by his worship. So I'll call the question any

1863
02:21:56,521 --> 02:22:02,151
opposed. And that carries. And looks like we do have

1864
02:22:02,636 --> 02:22:06,312
our speaker back for 7.2.4. And so before we get

1865
02:22:06,637 --> 02:22:11,032
to the speaker, Ms. Lacroix, Planning, Development act changes. Yeah,

1866
02:22:11,117 --> 02:22:14,232
thank you, Mr. Chair. So this report includes several topics

1867
02:22:14,837 --> 02:22:18,832
and some extensive background to provide expanded context on a

1868
02:22:18,877 --> 02:22:22,112
situation the city and the community are faced with addressing

1869
02:22:22,437 --> 02:22:27,618
as it relates to much needed schools. Within Saskatoon the

1870
02:22:27,663 --> 02:22:30,898
desire to preserve as much municipal reserve land as possible

1871
02:22:31,663 --> 02:22:34,698
for actual green space for the community and school benefits

1872
02:22:35,503 --> 02:22:39,098
and balancing all of this with overall housing affordability as

1873
02:22:39,143 --> 02:22:43,618
we've just heard in this previous presentation. We acknowledge all

1874
02:22:43,983 --> 02:22:46,650
of these pillars are of equal importance. To all of

1875
02:22:46,655 --> 02:22:49,572
us. And this report is about finding a way to

1876
02:22:49,937 --> 02:22:54,536
balance this, given the changes, the legislation. Has just recently

1877
02:22:54,901 --> 02:22:59,416
occurred and now requiring municipalities to provide sufficient land for

1878
02:22:59,461 --> 02:23:03,376
schools. Given the complexity of this, I would like to

1879
02:23:03,661 --> 02:23:06,936
just provide just a bit more of an extensive introduction.

1880
02:23:07,581 --> 02:23:11,296
The report is about addressing the urgent situation for lands

1881
02:23:11,621 --> 02:23:14,528
required for the joint use high school and leisure. Center

1882
02:23:14,893 --> 02:23:18,848
in the Homewood Urban center just east of Brighton. It's

1883
02:23:18,893 --> 02:23:21,608
about putting a plan in place to be prepared for

1884
02:23:21,973 --> 02:23:25,128
all future high school sites. And it's about the need

1885
02:23:25,453 --> 02:23:28,168
to provide some additional lands for the joint High School

1886
02:23:28,533 --> 02:23:32,208
leisure center site to accommodate the new east leisure Center.

1887
02:23:33,013 --> 02:23:37,503
The report recommends. The development of a funding model. To

1888
02:23:37,788 --> 02:23:40,583
meet the requirement for the city to provide adequate land

1889
02:23:40,948 --> 02:23:44,583
for new joint high schools, starting with the homewood sector

1890
02:23:44,908 --> 02:23:48,543
and then being prepared for all future high schools. Historically,

1891
02:23:48,908 --> 02:23:52,863
the city has not provided land for elementary nor high

1892
02:23:53,188 --> 02:23:57,183
school sites. The planning and Development act was amended in.

1893
02:23:57,734 --> 02:24:03,609
2018, requiring municipalities to provide sufficient land for schools. At

1894
02:24:03,654 --> 02:24:06,809
the time the act was changed, there were limited indications

1895
02:24:07,174 --> 02:24:11,186
of how this amendment would be interpreted. And implemented in

1896
02:24:11,191 --> 02:24:14,096
the future. And a general notion. This would be focused

1897
02:24:14,141 --> 02:24:18,899
on lands for elementary schools. The province and school divisions

1898
02:24:18,904 --> 02:24:22,819
have now confirmed future high school sites will be part

1899
02:24:22,864 --> 02:24:26,779
of the legislative changes. Land is required for high school

1900
02:24:27,264 --> 02:24:31,299
sites, and future high school student enrollment is being planned

1901
02:24:31,704 --> 02:24:36,819
for 3600 students. Based on this, it is anticipated high

1902
02:24:36,904 --> 02:24:40,810
school. Schools will require new high schools will be required

1903
02:24:41,215 --> 02:24:44,970
for approximately every four to five new neighborhoods of growth

1904
02:24:45,775 --> 02:24:48,450
based on this. We know a second high school site.

1905
02:24:48,775 --> 02:24:51,090
I see. We have an emergency alert. I'll just pause

1906
02:24:51,455 --> 02:24:56,535
for a moment. Thank you. It's a test. Okay, so

1907
02:24:56,940 --> 02:24:59,695
just to purchase. Sorry. So it will be based on

1908
02:25:00,060 --> 02:25:03,295
every. Four to five new neighborhoods. This means there'll need

1909
02:25:03,620 --> 02:25:06,375
to be a second high school site. Eventually required for

1910
02:25:06,660 --> 02:25:10,735
the Homewood sector, along with an additional future site in

1911
02:25:11,020 --> 02:25:14,735
the Blairmore sector. To support the purchase of these lands

1912
02:25:14,740 --> 02:25:18,942
for. High schools while maintaining the majority of municipal reserve

1913
02:25:18,987 --> 02:25:24,182
land for active and passive recreation. Administration is recommending the

1914
02:25:24,227 --> 02:25:28,222
creation of a new high school. Levy all things considered,

1915
02:25:28,587 --> 02:25:32,582
the future joint high schools are anticipated to require 36

1916
02:25:32,947 --> 02:25:36,646
to 40 acres for two schools. In the associated sports

1917
02:25:37,051 --> 02:25:41,046
fields. Ten acres of this would be sports fields and

1918
02:25:41,451 --> 02:25:45,686
Mr. Would be allocated to support the school's programming and

1919
02:25:45,851 --> 02:25:49,806
community use. The remaining 28 or so acres of required

1920
02:25:49,851 --> 02:25:53,836
lands would need to be purchased. For this purchase, the

1921
02:25:53,841 --> 02:25:58,836
new high school land levy is being proposed at $175.80

1922
02:25:59,161 --> 02:26:04,775
per front meter beginning January 1, 2025. Related to the

1923
02:26:04,780 --> 02:26:08,695
new upcoming joint high schools in East Leisure center. The

1924
02:26:08,740 --> 02:26:13,295
city has committed, providing 23 acres of municipal reserve land.

1925
02:26:14,060 --> 02:26:17,695
The province has identified the need for nine additional acres

1926
02:26:18,060 --> 02:26:22,546
of land given the student population. And a requirement. The

1927
02:26:22,591 --> 02:26:27,164
32 acres are to support school. And associated sports fields.

1928
02:26:27,529 --> 02:26:32,971
Given the late changes to. The additional land required. Administration

1929
02:26:33,296 --> 02:26:35,811
has been negotiating with the province to develop a plan

1930
02:26:36,536 --> 02:26:40,451
to fund the acquisition of the nine additional acres, the

1931
02:26:40,536 --> 02:26:43,651
province in the letter shown in appendix two of this

1932
02:26:43,696 --> 02:26:47,451
report has agreed to equally share the cost of purchasing

1933
02:26:47,536 --> 02:26:50,691
nine acres of additional land at a cost of just

1934
02:26:50,736 --> 02:26:55,629
over. 3.7 million. The city shares proposed to be funded

1935
02:26:55,954 --> 02:26:59,109
from the new high school land levy proposed in this

1936
02:26:59,474 --> 02:27:02,589
report. The nine acres of land does need to be

1937
02:27:02,634 --> 02:27:06,189
purchased in 2024 and then would need to be financed

1938
02:27:06,554 --> 02:27:09,229
over the next five to ten years, depending on the

1939
02:27:09,514 --> 02:27:13,566
pace of growth and the levy collection to facilitate. This,

1940
02:27:13,891 --> 02:27:17,486
the administration is recommending the new high school land levy

1941
02:27:17,531 --> 02:27:20,606
be approved to be in a short term deficit position.

1942
02:27:21,958 --> 02:27:25,313
With the province indicating the full 32 acres are required

1943
02:27:25,678 --> 02:27:28,873
for the two new high schools and supporting sports fields

1944
02:27:29,558 --> 02:27:32,713
and that the city will need to provide additional lands

1945
02:27:32,958 --> 02:27:36,713
to accommodate the planned leisure center. And supporting parking, which

1946
02:27:37,318 --> 02:27:41,769
is an estimated requirement of four acres. In order to

1947
02:27:42,094 --> 02:27:44,769
help fund the purchase of these four acres. We know

1948
02:27:44,814 --> 02:27:48,009
that 22 acres of the parcel of land will not

1949
02:27:48,694 --> 02:27:51,409
be developed into park space. It will be buildings and.

1950
02:27:52,761 --> 02:27:54,956
It will be parking lots as part of the school

1951
02:27:55,121 --> 02:27:59,027
development. This whole area would normally be funded by the

1952
02:27:59,312 --> 02:28:03,201
parks and rec levee collected for the sector. Where administration

1953
02:28:03,846 --> 02:28:07,521
is therefore recommending the parks and recreation levy reserve be

1954
02:28:07,566 --> 02:28:11,441
utilized to acquire an additional four acres of land to

1955
02:28:11,486 --> 02:28:15,041
support the development of the leisure center. The parks and

1956
02:28:15,366 --> 02:28:18,561
recreation levy policy does allow for these funds to be

1957
02:28:18,606 --> 02:28:24,135
utilized for multidistrict and recreation facilities. It's just not typically

1958
02:28:24,220 --> 02:28:29,215
allocated in that fashion to facilitate the immediate project administration.

1959
02:28:30,235 --> 02:28:34,998
Is recommending capital project 2600. Be increased by ten point

1960
02:28:35,363 --> 02:28:38,998
84. 2 million to purchase nine acres of land for

1961
02:28:39,283 --> 02:28:42,398
the high school. Sites. Four acres of land for the

1962
02:28:42,443 --> 02:28:45,878
leisure and the land will be serviced and purchased from

1963
02:28:46,203 --> 02:28:50,313
dream. Asset management. Related to the establishment of this new

1964
02:28:50,638 --> 02:28:54,593
levy administration, did meet with the developer liaison committee on

1965
02:28:54,678 --> 02:28:57,833
April 29 to provide an update on the new high

1966
02:28:58,158 --> 02:29:02,193
school land levy and this upcoming report at the meeting

1967
02:29:02,478 --> 02:29:05,593
with the full details available and the per front meter

1968
02:29:05,678 --> 02:29:09,904
cost shared. There were concerns raised with the long term

1969
02:29:10,229 --> 02:29:14,304
affordability of homes in Saskatoon and a wonder if alternate

1970
02:29:14,349 --> 02:29:18,483
sources of funding might be available. The developers recognized the

1971
02:29:18,528 --> 02:29:22,003
benefits of schools and park space to the vibrancy of

1972
02:29:22,048 --> 02:29:26,403
neighborhoods and they're also concerned about the overall affordability of

1973
02:29:26,448 --> 02:29:30,363
lots for housing development. A concern I would say we

1974
02:29:30,408 --> 02:29:32,803
also share, which is why the work on this file

1975
02:29:33,448 --> 02:29:37,350
has been extremely challenging to find the right balance. We

1976
02:29:37,435 --> 02:29:40,110
also know this is the first step in establishing this

1977
02:29:40,155 --> 02:29:43,270
new high school land levy, as we have an immediate

1978
02:29:43,595 --> 02:29:47,553
need to be addressed. As with all levies similar to

1979
02:29:47,598 --> 02:29:52,473
this new one, administration does ongoing reviews, consults with developers

1980
02:29:52,798 --> 02:29:56,433
and builders and reports annually on any changes to the

1981
02:29:56,798 --> 02:29:59,513
levy and the levy rates. So there will be more

1982
02:29:59,878 --> 02:30:03,073
discussions with builders and developers in the future as we

1983
02:30:03,678 --> 02:30:06,932
work to massage. What this levy rate might ultimately be

1984
02:30:07,297 --> 02:30:10,726
and how we can plan for a successful future. Subject

1985
02:30:11,051 --> 02:30:14,166
to city council approval, the new high school land levy

1986
02:30:14,451 --> 02:30:17,366
as described in this report would come into effect January

1987
02:30:18,131 --> 02:30:23,306
1, 2025. The city solicitor would prepare the appropriate funding

1988
02:30:23,351 --> 02:30:27,306
contribution agreements and then a formal approval for the purchase.

1989
02:30:27,631 --> 02:30:30,026
Of the 13 acres of land will be subject to

1990
02:30:30,631 --> 02:30:34,026
a future report through the standing policy committee. On finance.

1991
02:30:34,391 --> 02:30:37,466
And with that, there are four recommendations in the reports

1992
02:30:38,071 --> 02:30:40,478
and administration is here. If there are any questions? I

1993
02:30:40,483 --> 02:30:41,598
see. We have a couple of questions, but we do

1994
02:30:41,883 --> 02:30:45,893
have one speaker. Did you guys want to wait. Perfect.

1995
02:30:46,578 --> 02:30:53,356
Ms. Burgess, can you hear me okay? Yeah. I can.

1996
02:30:54,201 --> 02:30:57,316
Sorry. I'm operating off my phone. The hotel is doing

1997
02:30:58,001 --> 02:31:01,236
a bunch of tests. And so I'm on my phone,

1998
02:31:01,641 --> 02:31:05,596
Internet. So I did prepare a video, thank God, and

1999
02:31:05,921 --> 02:31:07,956
I'll be here to answer questions following the video. Thanks.

2000
02:31:08,681 --> 02:31:11,036
Perfect. Thanks for making some time. To get in here.

2001
02:31:12,314 --> 02:31:17,356
So we'll give the video. Good morning. Your worship and

2002
02:31:17,681 --> 02:31:21,236
counselors, and thank you so much for allowing me the

2003
02:31:21,521 --> 02:31:26,406
opportunity to address you. Virtually today. Unfortunately, I am out

2004
02:31:26,451 --> 02:31:28,806
of the province and therefore unable to physically be there.

2005
02:31:29,531 --> 02:31:32,046
I am speaking to you today on behalf of the

2006
02:31:32,091 --> 02:31:35,766
SAS, Tune and Region Homebuilders association to express our concerns

2007
02:31:36,131 --> 02:31:38,886
and are strong opposition to the proposed high school levy

2008
02:31:39,131 --> 02:31:44,277
fee, scheduled to start on January 1 2025. Upon further

2009
02:31:44,602 --> 02:31:47,757
investigation, we have serious questions regarding whether the creation of

2010
02:31:47,762 --> 02:31:50,437
this new levee is even permitted and in alignment with

2011
02:31:50,482 --> 02:31:54,907
the Planning and Development Act. Recent discussions with stakeholders involved

2012
02:31:54,952 --> 02:31:59,827
during the legislative change of 2018 2019 suggested that municipalities

2013
02:32:00,192 --> 02:32:02,947
would not have the authority to impose such a levy.

2014
02:32:03,672 --> 02:32:06,707
Therefore, we are seeking a meeting with the province city

2015
02:32:07,152 --> 02:32:10,027
administration. And local developers to gain clarity on this issue.

2016
02:32:10,817 --> 02:32:13,492
Until this matter is resolved, we kindly request that this

2017
02:32:13,537 --> 02:32:17,003
item be deferred to a later. Date. With that said,

2018
02:32:17,408 --> 02:32:20,163
even if it is determined that this levee is permitted,

2019
02:32:20,488 --> 02:32:24,123
we find the proposed rate of $175 per front meter

2020
02:32:24,448 --> 02:32:28,363
to be excessive. Previous discussions led us to anticipate a

2021
02:32:28,408 --> 02:32:32,803
much lower rate of $35 per front meter. Furthermore, the

2022
02:32:33,088 --> 02:32:35,923
lack of consultation on this levy has blindsided our members.

2023
02:32:36,493 --> 02:32:39,048
As evidenced during the meeting of April 29, when it

2024
02:32:39,093 --> 02:32:43,573
was first communicated. The proposed cost impact far exceeds the

2025
02:32:43,618 --> 02:32:47,613
expectation set through previous discussions, creating a significant disconnect between

2026
02:32:47,938 --> 02:32:51,213
the city's approach and the practical realities facing builders and

2027
02:32:51,498 --> 02:32:55,133
developers. As you are aware we are currently in the

2028
02:32:55,178 --> 02:32:58,933
midst of a housing crisis that greatly affects affordability and

2029
02:32:59,018 --> 02:33:02,578
investment in our city. Implementing a levee that adds around

2030
02:33:02,943 --> 02:33:06,098
$2,000 to the cost of an average single family lot

2031
02:33:06,463 --> 02:33:09,098
is said to be implemented at a time when development

2032
02:33:09,143 --> 02:33:12,501
levies on single family lots are already. At historically high

2033
02:33:12,906 --> 02:33:16,720
levels. According to a recent municipal benchmarking study by the

2034
02:33:16,765 --> 02:33:22,130
Canadian Homebuilders Association. Saskatoon's development levees on single family lots

2035
02:33:22,175 --> 02:33:25,250
are the second highest in all of Canada. Only behind

2036
02:33:25,615 --> 02:33:30,970
Surrey BC. This is especially concerning considering that our municipality

2037
02:33:31,335 --> 02:33:34,090
also being a major land developer in the city has

2038
02:33:34,415 --> 02:33:37,170
the capacity to offset these fees without putting on the

2039
02:33:37,415 --> 02:33:41,837
backs of future homeowners. The current rate of escalating costs,

2040
02:33:41,882 --> 02:33:45,837
including this proposed levy, threatens the viability of new construction

2041
02:33:46,122 --> 02:33:48,877
and the broader goal of maintaining Saskatoon as one of

2042
02:33:49,242 --> 02:33:53,250
Canada's most affordable housing markets. Our city is at a

2043
02:33:53,255 --> 02:33:56,410
critical juncture where doubling housing starts in the coming years

2044
02:33:56,815 --> 02:33:59,490
is going to be critical to meeting demand and restoring

2045
02:33:59,815 --> 02:34:04,755
affordability. Adding to our frustration opportunities to mitigate these costs

2046
02:34:05,040 --> 02:34:08,675
through the $40 million federal housing accelerator. Fund have been

2047
02:34:09,000 --> 02:34:12,635
outright dismissed. Stakeholders involved at the outset of this process

2048
02:34:13,040 --> 02:34:16,635
identified this as a top priority for addressing housing challenges

2049
02:34:16,960 --> 02:34:21,654
and affordability. However, the decision was ultimately made to exclude

2050
02:34:22,219 --> 02:34:25,614
this initiative from the application due to an ongoing levy

2051
02:34:25,899 --> 02:34:29,534
review process that was already underway, the same levy review

2052
02:34:29,899 --> 02:34:33,454
process that has been stalled out since November. 2022 with

2053
02:34:33,499 --> 02:34:38,291
no clear timelines for resolution. Given the urgent need for

2054
02:34:38,616 --> 02:34:41,491
housing and the direct impact of Levy has on affordability,

2055
02:34:42,620 --> 02:34:45,815
We strongly urge this committee to reconsider the proposed levy

2056
02:34:45,860 --> 02:34:48,975
and postpone moving forward with the proposal until alignment with

2057
02:34:49,220 --> 02:34:53,360
the Planning and Development act is clarified. As mentioned many

2058
02:34:53,405 --> 02:34:56,600
times over the years, the homebuilding industry requires three things

2059
02:34:56,925 --> 02:34:59,200
from the city to support the development of much needed

2060
02:34:59,645 --> 02:35:04,840
housing. We need certainty, a level playing field, and collaboration

2061
02:35:04,925 --> 02:35:08,619
from the city. This new added levy represents a complete

2062
02:35:08,664 --> 02:35:12,169
move away from these principles. Thank you so much for

2063
02:35:12,174 --> 02:35:15,289
your time. We appreciate your consideration, and we look forward

2064
02:35:15,614 --> 02:35:18,809
to engaging in a much more inclusive and balanced discussion

2065
02:35:19,134 --> 02:35:21,089
on this matter. Thank you so much. Have a great

2066
02:35:21,494 --> 02:35:24,190
day. So I'll just open it up before we go

2067
02:35:24,235 --> 02:35:26,430
to questions. Administration. Administration. Is there any. Questions for the

2068
02:35:26,795 --> 02:35:32,296
speaker. And bhp is doing great.

2069
02:35:36,984 --> 02:35:40,973
Any questions for the speaker? Not seeing any. Thank you.

2070
02:35:41,018 --> 02:35:42,853
Ms. Burgess, I don't see any questions for you, so

2071
02:35:43,138 --> 02:35:46,675
thank you for attending here today. Thank you so much,

2072
02:35:47,480 --> 02:35:52,770
Councilor Lawrence for administration. And you should be good. Yeah.

2073
02:35:53,095 --> 02:35:58,646
Thanks so much. Okay. So thanks very much for this

2074
02:35:58,731 --> 02:36:02,468
report. I know this has been. A very long and

2075
02:36:02,793 --> 02:36:05,068
challenging process to try to find a solution way forward

2076
02:36:05,593 --> 02:36:08,538
here. I'm sure this is in the report. I'm having

2077
02:36:08,863 --> 02:36:10,778
trouble tracking some of the ins and outs. Can you

2078
02:36:11,063 --> 02:36:15,098
comment on the overall impact on available actual park space

2079
02:36:15,503 --> 02:36:23,512
for the neighborhood? And what this does. To. Our plans

2080
02:36:23,597 --> 02:36:27,112
or original concept plan for development of green space and

2081
02:36:27,517 --> 02:36:32,266
recreational space in the community broadly. Yeah. Thank you. Through

2082
02:36:32,311 --> 02:36:36,226
you, Mr. Chair. Again, to put it into context of

2083
02:36:36,511 --> 02:36:40,226
the entire homewood sector, if indeed the city had to

2084
02:36:40,591 --> 02:36:46,306
allocate solely municipal reserve land for elementary school parcels. There

2085
02:36:46,351 --> 02:36:49,506
are intended to be seven new neighborhoods, so those are

2086
02:36:50,151 --> 02:36:53,377
at ten acre par. Parcels per elementary school site. That

2087
02:36:53,702 --> 02:36:57,817
would be 70 acres of municipal reserve land. High schools

2088
02:36:58,462 --> 02:37:01,762
are on the current size they're building. They're an average

2089
02:37:02,127 --> 02:37:06,602
of 36 to 40 acres of land required. So if

2090
02:37:06,927 --> 02:37:10,859
we take that round. It up at eight. At 40,

2091
02:37:11,264 --> 02:37:14,259
we know two high schools will be required in the

2092
02:37:14,264 --> 02:37:18,339
homewood. Sector at full build out, that's another 80 acres.

2093
02:37:18,784 --> 02:37:23,619
So those two combined of 70 acres. And 80 acres,

2094
02:37:23,664 --> 02:37:27,139
or even if he said 70 acres, it's about 140

2095
02:37:27,824 --> 02:37:31,935
to 150 acres. Of municipal reserve land. And for the

2096
02:37:32,300 --> 02:37:36,215
entire homewood sector, there is only a toy, and it's

2097
02:37:36,220 --> 02:37:40,255
again, the dedication of municipal reserve land is driven by

2098
02:37:40,260 --> 02:37:44,175
the Planning and Development act, where developers are required to

2099
02:37:44,220 --> 02:37:49,055
set aside 10% of the developable residential area and five.

2100
02:37:49,419 --> 02:37:53,456
Percent of the industrial commercial areas. So with that, in

2101
02:37:53,501 --> 02:37:58,696
the Homewood sector entirely, there are approximately 430 total acres

2102
02:37:58,741 --> 02:38:02,736
of. Mr. So if we had to take 150 of

2103
02:38:02,741 --> 02:38:07,115
those, that's one third of the entire. Municipal reserve land

2104
02:38:07,480 --> 02:38:10,675
for that entire sector. That would be simply for schools

2105
02:38:10,960 --> 02:38:14,235
and parking lots to sit. On. So it is indeed

2106
02:38:14,560 --> 02:38:17,995
of great concern to the overall quality of life and

2107
02:38:18,080 --> 02:38:21,760
community building and access to green space. And something that

2108
02:38:22,125 --> 02:38:25,240
we want to continue a conversation with the province on

2109
02:38:25,565 --> 02:38:30,708
related to the impacts. Our response to this back in

2110
02:38:31,033 --> 02:38:36,197
2018 when. The act first changed was to repurpose our

2111
02:38:36,282 --> 02:38:40,237
then community center levy to be utilized to purchase additional

2112
02:38:40,562 --> 02:38:44,764
lands for those. New four new p three schools, so.

2113
02:38:45,918 --> 02:38:48,273
We wouldn't have a core neighborhood park that's half the

2114
02:38:48,318 --> 02:38:52,883
size it currently is. Right. With the land reserve from

2115
02:38:53,168 --> 02:38:59,083
the Mr. Bucket for the schools. Then we're below that

2116
02:38:59,448 --> 02:39:04,181
10% threshold in terms of the actual. Available land. For

2117
02:39:04,306 --> 02:39:08,535
Mr. Development through you, Mr. Chair. That is correct. The

2118
02:39:08,620 --> 02:39:12,215
act implies that the city would set, use Mr. To

2119
02:39:12,260 --> 02:39:16,175
set aside for the schools. And I'm not sure if.

2120
02:39:17,826 --> 02:39:21,501
The full impact that was contemplated at the time of

2121
02:39:21,826 --> 02:39:26,915
the act changes. In school parcels. Were somewhat smaller at

2122
02:39:27,000 --> 02:39:32,091
the time. So with that in mind, I'm wondering. If,

2123
02:39:32,176 --> 02:39:34,931
and perhaps it's too early to have these conversations, but

2124
02:39:35,296 --> 02:39:38,248
I know, for example, An example of this would be

2125
02:39:38,493 --> 02:39:41,974
at Aiden Bowman. We did a land swap. We have

2126
02:39:42,539 --> 02:39:45,534
land that's available both for school use and for public

2127
02:39:45,939 --> 02:39:49,509
recreational use. I know. We're thinking about. Like an actual

2128
02:39:49,834 --> 02:39:54,326
leisure center facility. I'm wondering about access. To schools, sports

2129
02:39:54,651 --> 02:39:58,206
fields and so forth, and whether or not we're intending

2130
02:39:58,211 --> 02:40:01,886
to negotiate some public or community access to those assets

2131
02:40:02,571 --> 02:40:06,086
in light of the restricted amount of green space. This

2132
02:40:06,131 --> 02:40:09,638
is going to leave us with? To you, Mr. Chair?

2133
02:40:10,043 --> 02:40:14,038
Absolutely. That is the intent of those ten acres that

2134
02:40:14,083 --> 02:40:18,984
will indeed be green. Space and sports fields. Because it

2135
02:40:19,309 --> 02:40:22,504
is municipal reserve land that has been set aside to

2136
02:40:22,549 --> 02:40:26,064
connect with this. We will be using parks and recreation

2137
02:40:26,389 --> 02:40:31,322
levy funding. To design, develop, build those sports fields with

2138
02:40:31,687 --> 02:40:35,002
the full intention they are available for school use and

2139
02:40:35,327 --> 02:40:39,362
they also will be available for community use. Okay, that's

2140
02:40:39,407 --> 02:40:42,407
good to know. And this is, again, maybe a little

2141
02:40:42,732 --> 02:40:44,567
too early to ask this question, but can you describe

2142
02:40:44,892 --> 02:40:47,647
the process that we will have with the province and

2143
02:40:47,932 --> 02:40:52,829
with the school divisions. To. Plan some of the access

2144
02:40:53,194 --> 02:40:57,992
in egress from these sites. These are. Huge. School population,

2145
02:40:58,757 --> 02:41:00,672
this is a school population is going to be larger

2146
02:41:00,717 --> 02:41:04,386
than a lot of Saskatchewan communities. And so, given the

2147
02:41:04,471 --> 02:41:07,775
challenges we've had with some of. These smaller sites, and

2148
02:41:07,820 --> 02:41:10,015
I'm thinking of the school site in Stonebridge, but I

2149
02:41:10,020 --> 02:41:12,653
know it's not unique. Can you describe what our process

2150
02:41:13,058 --> 02:41:16,973
is going to be for ensuring safe access? Vehicular access?

2151
02:41:17,378 --> 02:41:21,533
Transit, pedestrians, cyclists to these sites. What will that process

2152
02:41:21,978 --> 02:41:28,005
look like? And is it underway? Yeah. Thank you, Mr.

2153
02:41:28,410 --> 02:41:32,445
Chair. Through you. It is absolutely underway in earnest because

2154
02:41:32,810 --> 02:41:35,445
of the tight time frames of wanting to get to

2155
02:41:35,490 --> 02:41:40,768
design. There have been no fewer than 25. To 30

2156
02:41:41,253 --> 02:41:44,888
meeting multisectoral meetings hosted over the course of the last

2157
02:41:45,253 --> 02:41:47,848
three or so. Months, and Mr. Roberts has set in

2158
02:41:47,933 --> 02:41:49,688
on most of those, so he can probably tell you

2159
02:41:49,733 --> 02:41:53,594
if it's much more than that. It is a consultant

2160
02:41:53,919 --> 02:41:56,634
that has been hired by the province and the two

2161
02:41:57,039 --> 02:42:00,994
school divisions to do this detailed design. It's looking at

2162
02:42:01,039 --> 02:42:04,234
the layout of the parcel. It's looking at. The requirements

2163
02:42:04,599 --> 02:42:08,690
for parking for the parcel. It's collaborating with our colleagues

2164
02:42:09,335 --> 02:42:12,650
in transportation and transit to talk about how it is.

2165
02:42:13,709 --> 02:42:17,024
We're going to maximize the safe access egress to a

2166
02:42:17,029 --> 02:42:21,588
site. Knowing that school starts at a certain time and

2167
02:42:21,633 --> 02:42:25,188
all 1800 students are going to be arriving within probably

2168
02:42:25,273 --> 02:42:28,388
two minutes of the bell time. So trying to strategize

2169
02:42:28,753 --> 02:42:31,418
on what that might look like? Is going to be

2170
02:42:31,823 --> 02:42:35,538
critically important. That work is well underway. We have a

2171
02:42:35,903 --> 02:42:39,342
number of staff. From our city departments that are involved

2172
02:42:39,627 --> 02:42:46,482
in these conversations. With. Some finalization hoping to come to

2173
02:42:46,607 --> 02:42:50,989
conclusion in the coming months. Okay, I think my last

2174
02:42:51,354 --> 02:42:55,440
question. Is just in the introduction of a new levee

2175
02:42:55,765 --> 02:43:01,615
with. These specific. Projected new schools in mind. Is the

2176
02:43:01,660 --> 02:43:05,615
intent to leave this levy in place in perpetuity, or

2177
02:43:05,940 --> 02:43:10,201
would there be a point where. It would be reviewed.

2178
02:43:11,732 --> 02:43:14,447
If the province decided to take a different approach to

2179
02:43:14,692 --> 02:43:17,567
a new school site designation. Yeah. Thank you. To you,

2180
02:43:17,932 --> 02:43:21,292
Mr. Chair. And it will need to be in place

2181
02:43:22,017 --> 02:43:26,052
for as long as municipalities are required to provide this.

2182
02:43:26,097 --> 02:43:30,012
Amount of land for high schools, but as you say,

2183
02:43:31,590 --> 02:43:34,905
We are still intending to have more in depth conversations

2184
02:43:35,270 --> 02:43:38,785
with the province and with the school divisions. And trying

2185
02:43:38,870 --> 02:43:41,905
to make sure that we future proof ourselves to ensure

2186
02:43:41,950 --> 02:43:45,241
we do have a good balance. Of what land needs

2187
02:43:45,286 --> 02:43:49,321
to be purchased over how many neighborhoods, how frequently will

2188
02:43:49,686 --> 02:43:52,881
schools be built and who needs to provide the funding?

2189
02:43:53,206 --> 02:43:55,841
Or how do we acquire the funding to purchase those

2190
02:43:55,886 --> 02:44:02,247
lands, right? So if we were successful. In. Having the

2191
02:44:02,252 --> 02:44:06,287
province take a different approach, then we might review whether

2192
02:44:06,572 --> 02:44:09,786
or not this is still required. We would absolutely review

2193
02:44:10,191 --> 02:44:13,410
that. And as I sort of hinted at in the

2194
02:44:13,775 --> 02:44:19,598
introduction, we annually review these levees and adjust. For the

2195
02:44:19,643 --> 02:44:23,518
rates per front meter or the criteria by which the

2196
02:44:23,643 --> 02:44:27,740
levees are built for these kinds of things. And it's

2197
02:44:27,785 --> 02:44:31,340
commonly through a conversation with our builders and developers. This

2198
02:44:31,345 --> 02:44:36,980
one has been. A changing situation along the way. The

2199
02:44:37,025 --> 02:44:40,620
original estimation was a 23 acre parcel would be large

2200
02:44:40,945 --> 02:44:44,700
enough. The maximum school enrollment would be 22 to 2400,

2201
02:44:45,545 --> 02:44:48,140
those goal posts have moved. And so part of this

2202
02:44:48,465 --> 02:44:50,380
is in response to that. And how do we make

2203
02:44:50,425 --> 02:44:55,220
sure we address this existing situation and then also future

2204
02:44:55,905 --> 02:44:59,005
proof, ourself? For future. Situations. Okay, well, thanks for the

2205
02:44:59,050 --> 02:45:06,404
update. Councilor block. Thanks, chair Davies. I just want to

2206
02:45:06,689 --> 02:45:09,698
be clear. I think the way I understand this is

2207
02:45:09,743 --> 02:45:13,647
that it's not that the city didn't. Realize that. This.

2208
02:45:14,835 --> 02:45:18,550
School land reserve wasn't going to be inclusive of high

2209
02:45:18,835 --> 02:45:21,950
schools. It's simply the size of these high schools. Can

2210
02:45:21,995 --> 02:45:25,470
you speak a bit more to how this came as

2211
02:45:25,995 --> 02:45:31,845
something that was potentially. Not considered by administration previously. Yeah.

2212
02:45:32,210 --> 02:45:35,909
Thank you. Through you, Mr. Chair. When the Planning and

2213
02:45:35,994 --> 02:45:40,727
Development act was first changed in 2018. There was little

2214
02:45:41,172 --> 02:45:45,927
information around how it would actually be implemented, what all

2215
02:45:46,012 --> 02:45:50,796
the impacts might eventually be. And notionally, and probably because

2216
02:45:51,401 --> 02:45:54,578
they were most urgent. The concept or thought was it

2217
02:45:54,903 --> 02:45:59,298
would be mainly applicable to elementary school sites, and it's

2218
02:45:59,343 --> 02:46:02,098
only been in the last three years that we've been

2219
02:46:02,423 --> 02:46:05,138
working with our colleagues at the school divisions as they

2220
02:46:05,183 --> 02:46:08,258
plan for this new high school site. That the province

2221
02:46:08,663 --> 02:46:11,738
has been very specific. About the requirement for the city

2222
02:46:12,183 --> 02:46:16,657
to provide. Lands, also for high schools, so it has

2223
02:46:16,742 --> 02:46:20,082
been a bit of a shift. It's been more direct.

2224
02:46:20,447 --> 02:46:24,442
We haven't built a high school since 2009 when the

2225
02:46:24,767 --> 02:46:27,482
Shaw center and joint high schools were built. And at

2226
02:46:27,527 --> 02:46:34,505
the time. The school divisions purchased that land. Okay. So

2227
02:46:34,830 --> 02:46:36,905
we didn't anticipate that it would be inclusive of high

2228
02:46:37,230 --> 02:46:41,674
schools. It was not our anticipation. It has come to

2229
02:46:41,999 --> 02:46:44,274
light recently. In the last three or four years, that's

2230
02:46:44,319 --> 02:46:47,274
been part of our planning. That's where we had set

2231
02:46:47,399 --> 02:46:50,874
aside up to 23 acres of municipal reserve. Hoping that

2232
02:46:50,919 --> 02:46:53,914
would help address it, but it's grown bigger than that,

2233
02:46:53,999 --> 02:46:57,554
and beyond that, we've also had an opportunity to actually

2234
02:46:57,959 --> 02:47:00,994
zoom out and see what the overall impact is to.

2235
02:47:01,322 --> 02:47:04,597
An entire sector. When you take such a significant component

2236
02:47:05,282 --> 02:47:09,757
of multidistrict and district park space to have buildings and

2237
02:47:10,082 --> 02:47:12,477
parking lots sit on. So again, it's trying to find

2238
02:47:12,842 --> 02:47:16,861
that balance. Where green space is so critically important. As

2239
02:47:17,186 --> 02:47:21,010
we have increased densities in the city. There are more

2240
02:47:21,095 --> 02:47:25,530
multi unit dwellings that have no front yards, no backyards,

2241
02:47:25,775 --> 02:47:28,090
they have no green space and proximity to play in.

2242
02:47:28,135 --> 02:47:30,770
So they rely on our neighborhood park. So we need

2243
02:47:31,095 --> 02:47:35,210
to also ensure we're protecting and preserving the integrity and

2244
02:47:35,495 --> 02:47:39,027
the community value of those green spaces. Is it also

2245
02:47:39,432 --> 02:47:42,507
the case that the size is different than would be

2246
02:47:42,872 --> 02:47:46,559
anticipated for high school and is that because. They are

2247
02:47:46,604 --> 02:47:49,839
also in consideration of some of those joint use projects

2248
02:47:49,844 --> 02:47:53,396
like the Shaw Center. To you, Mr. Chair. The size

2249
02:47:53,481 --> 02:47:59,227
of the parcel and the enrollment of students. Has also

2250
02:47:59,672 --> 02:48:04,126
surprised the local school divisions. I'll say. It's the 3600

2251
02:48:04,931 --> 02:48:09,446
student population or enrollment has only been made known to

2252
02:48:09,771 --> 02:48:12,086
us within the last two and a half months or

2253
02:48:12,451 --> 02:48:18,109
three months. Originally. The project, and when we did the

2254
02:48:18,434 --> 02:48:21,829
joint site feasibility study work, it was based on the

2255
02:48:21,834 --> 02:48:26,606
student enrollment of 2200 to 2400. The province is trying

2256
02:48:26,891 --> 02:48:30,566
to maximize efficiencies in terms of how often high schools

2257
02:48:30,931 --> 02:48:34,526
need to be built in large, growing cities and centers.

2258
02:48:34,891 --> 02:48:39,366
This 3600 student enrollment school will be one of the

2259
02:48:39,691 --> 02:48:47,362
largest high schools in western Canada. Okay. So maybe I'll

2260
02:48:47,407 --> 02:48:49,682
just shift. I did have actually just sort of a

2261
02:48:49,927 --> 02:48:52,322
process question with regards to how it's being funded. So

2262
02:48:52,567 --> 02:48:54,522
the increase in that capital reserve, and based on the

2263
02:48:54,807 --> 02:48:58,380
sharing of the problems. It kind of seems that. We

2264
02:48:58,385 --> 02:49:00,780
are not getting that money from the province right away.

2265
02:49:01,894 --> 02:49:05,633
Did I misunderstand that or. Is that just the way

2266
02:49:05,958 --> 02:49:07,833
that has been presented? But that money would be coming

2267
02:49:08,358 --> 02:49:12,124
forth with. To you, Mr. Chair. The funding will is

2268
02:49:12,169 --> 02:49:17,044
imminent. Absolutely. But the city's share of that. Nine acre

2269
02:49:17,089 --> 02:49:21,044
purchase, which is just over 3.7 million, will need to

2270
02:49:21,049 --> 02:49:24,564
be funded by the reserve and thus the required deficit

2271
02:49:24,889 --> 02:49:28,044
position. But the 3.7 or so million from the province

2272
02:49:28,449 --> 02:49:31,647
will be available immediately. We just need to purchase all

2273
02:49:32,012 --> 02:49:36,949
nine acres, essentially, immediately. Okay, I think I'm following that.

2274
02:49:37,674 --> 02:49:40,469
Thanks. I just wanted to shift gears a bit here.

2275
02:49:42,134 --> 02:49:45,329
Can you talk a bit about what options were available

2276
02:49:45,734 --> 02:49:47,569
to the city visa vis the decision to come up

2277
02:49:47,614 --> 02:49:53,239
with $175 per front meter. So the options the city

2278
02:49:53,404 --> 02:49:57,359
looked at is what available municipal reserve land do we

2279
02:49:57,404 --> 02:50:04,201
have? To provide for the additional. Four school lands and

2280
02:50:04,286 --> 02:50:07,801
mitigating the impacts in the community. We took a look

2281
02:50:07,846 --> 02:50:11,601
at what other capital or funding there might be. And

2282
02:50:12,006 --> 02:50:15,281
in conversations with our colleagues in finance, there is no

2283
02:50:15,326 --> 02:50:20,609
other readily available source of land. Funding. Sorry. To purchase

2284
02:50:21,054 --> 02:50:25,107
land solely for school purposes. So we then took a

2285
02:50:25,112 --> 02:50:27,467
page out of the model that we currently use for

2286
02:50:27,472 --> 02:50:33,014
the elementary school. Land levy, and that is to establish,

2287
02:50:33,739 --> 02:50:37,854
similar to our parks and recreation levy is to establish

2288
02:50:38,219 --> 02:50:42,294
a per front meter cost to collect the sufficient funds

2289
02:50:42,619 --> 02:50:45,894
to be able to purchase the lands required to accommodate

2290
02:50:46,579 --> 02:50:50,614
the new high school sites. That's complemented by an allocation

2291
02:50:50,619 --> 02:51:00,465
of. Municipal reserve land. The concern that this. Wasn't well

2292
02:51:00,910 --> 02:51:04,498
discussed with the development community. I know you said that

2293
02:51:04,783 --> 02:51:08,498
there was an information session. Can you explain the limitations?

2294
02:51:10,399 --> 02:51:13,745
In administration's view of how that went down. Thank you.

2295
02:51:14,030 --> 02:51:18,651
And to you, Mr. Chair. Absolutely. As I just shared

2296
02:51:19,056 --> 02:51:23,569
sort of the requirement to provide. A parcel that is

2297
02:51:23,614 --> 02:51:27,569
indeed nine or ten acres larger because of the increased

2298
02:51:27,654 --> 02:51:32,409
student enrollment, has only come broadly to light within the

2299
02:51:32,454 --> 02:51:35,722
last two and a half to three months. When we

2300
02:51:35,767 --> 02:51:39,002
first approached this subject, and I would say, because this

2301
02:51:39,767 --> 02:51:43,442
is in the homeward sector, we have had conversations with

2302
02:51:43,727 --> 02:51:49,423
the land developer along the way. Some of the initial

2303
02:51:49,828 --> 02:51:53,783
conversations was presupposing we would need to buy less land

2304
02:51:54,228 --> 02:51:57,343
because we would have some. Mr. And the student enrollment

2305
02:51:57,708 --> 02:52:00,463
population would be less and we could spread that out.

2306
02:52:01,743 --> 02:52:05,698
Over five, possibly six neighborhoods, which gives you more front

2307
02:52:05,783 --> 02:52:09,378
meters over which to collect the levy as we dug

2308
02:52:09,743 --> 02:52:13,258
into the details with the school divisions as the province

2309
02:52:13,663 --> 02:52:16,378
laid out the new plan for high schools to have

2310
02:52:16,743 --> 02:52:21,844
3600 students. And their legislation then dictates the size of

2311
02:52:22,169 --> 02:52:26,106
the parcel. The number has been evolving. Some of the

2312
02:52:26,151 --> 02:52:29,426
earlier conversations were that that per front meter cost could

2313
02:52:29,751 --> 02:52:35,026
be in a range of front meter. Given that it's

2314
02:52:35,031 --> 02:52:37,786
over fewer neighborhoods, given that we need to buy more

2315
02:52:38,111 --> 02:52:43,466
land than anticipated. It's now at $175 per front meter.

2316
02:52:43,638 --> 02:52:46,527
And it is a number that's larger than. We had

2317
02:52:46,932 --> 02:52:51,392
anticipated or hoped for. It's been an iterative process that

2318
02:52:51,717 --> 02:52:55,232
we've gone through as changes have occurred. From both sides

2319
02:52:55,277 --> 02:52:59,538
of the equation. So I realized this isn't a question

2320
02:52:59,943 --> 02:53:02,618
that is us for us to answer, but are you

2321
02:53:02,663 --> 02:53:06,978
aware of whether the province had considered perhaps a second

2322
02:53:07,103 --> 02:53:12,459
level? To litigate the footprint of the site. Thank you.

2323
02:53:12,784 --> 02:53:18,594
Through you, Mr. Chair. Actually, the province is now pushing

2324
02:53:18,919 --> 02:53:21,274
the schools to look at no lesson, a three story

2325
02:53:21,679 --> 02:53:25,295
high school. And potentially explore a four story high school

2326
02:53:25,660 --> 02:53:30,974
because that was also. Our comment was related to building

2327
02:53:31,379 --> 02:53:34,814
up just like density. Same way we approach infill build

2328
02:53:34,939 --> 02:53:38,054
up versus outs so that you need less land. That's

2329
02:53:38,379 --> 02:53:42,456
exactly the current design iterations. They're going through. It's going

2330
02:53:42,461 --> 02:53:45,576
to be a minimum three story high school, and there's

2331
02:53:45,661 --> 02:53:49,656
potential for them to consider possibly a fourth story that's

2332
02:53:49,661 --> 02:53:53,211
not yet been sort of fully vetted. Okay, so through

2333
02:53:53,256 --> 02:53:56,588
the chair. I think I understand now that. The amount

2334
02:53:56,913 --> 02:53:58,748
of land that is required is based on the number

2335
02:53:58,793 --> 02:54:03,080
of students, not on the design. Of the bill. Indeed.

2336
02:54:06,175 --> 02:54:13,811
How the education regulations identifies appropriate school site size. Is

2337
02:54:13,936 --> 02:54:19,536
based on student population. So there's a required amount for

2338
02:54:20,141 --> 02:54:23,456
a base student population of 1000. It's in. That 4.5

2339
02:54:23,781 --> 02:54:29,216
to 5.7 site, and then for every 100 incremental students.

2340
02:54:30,047 --> 02:54:34,682
An additional .4 land is required to be provided so

2341
02:54:35,367 --> 02:54:39,385
the size of the site. Is absolutely dictated by the

2342
02:54:39,470 --> 02:54:43,945
student population, and some of the implications are also connected

2343
02:54:44,270 --> 02:54:47,825
to the amount of parking being requested, which is part

2344
02:54:47,830 --> 02:54:52,065
of what we're currently working hard with the province. And

2345
02:54:52,110 --> 02:55:00,089
school divisions on that. The current identified parking for. This

2346
02:55:00,134 --> 02:55:02,929
particular site is well in excess of what the current

2347
02:55:03,334 --> 02:55:06,809
zoning bylaw requirements are, so that's part of our conversations

2348
02:55:07,254 --> 02:55:10,809
as well, just around how much parking actually needs to

2349
02:55:10,814 --> 02:55:14,409
be required. On site again to make sure the parcel

2350
02:55:14,774 --> 02:55:17,089
size is as lean and tight as it can be.

2351
02:55:18,029 --> 02:55:19,704
That's a whole nother rabbit hole that I will not

2352
02:55:20,029 --> 02:55:22,784
go down today, given bus. Rapid transit on the way,

2353
02:55:23,469 --> 02:55:25,904
but I will just ask one final question around affordability.

2354
02:55:27,401 --> 02:55:29,276
If you're saying that this is really the only option

2355
02:55:29,681 --> 02:55:35,017
that we have, At our disposal. How do we consider

2356
02:55:35,142 --> 02:55:38,918
affordability in an area like all those new areas? Are

2357
02:55:39,003 --> 02:55:43,532
already very expensive. What are administration's thoughts as those arguments

2358
02:55:43,577 --> 02:55:47,012
have been made? Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And as

2359
02:55:47,057 --> 02:55:54,962
I said in my opening introductions, That is what has

2360
02:55:55,047 --> 02:55:59,402
made this the most challenging thing. It is about finding

2361
02:55:59,447 --> 02:56:05,652
ways to really balance. Affordability. Necessary schools in the community

2362
02:56:06,497 --> 02:56:11,012
and access to quality green space, so it hasn't been

2363
02:56:11,417 --> 02:56:15,012
easy. And we know that this has implications for affordability.

2364
02:56:16,959 --> 02:56:20,954
We are faced with the need of providing lands for

2365
02:56:21,319 --> 02:56:24,554
school purposes, and this is a new thing. For us,

2366
02:56:25,279 --> 02:56:30,663
so we didn't take this lightly. And that's exactly what

2367
02:56:30,988 --> 02:56:34,183
we've said to the developers. This was not our first

2368
02:56:34,548 --> 02:56:38,143
default. We tried to ensure we had sufficient Mr. Available

2369
02:56:38,588 --> 02:56:43,864
for this particular. Emergent site. It wasn't enough, and we

2370
02:56:43,909 --> 02:56:48,304
still require funding to purchase some additional land levies as

2371
02:56:48,669 --> 02:56:51,904
we look forward with this high school land. Levy. We're

2372
02:56:52,229 --> 02:56:55,344
going to continue to explore options. To massage how much

2373
02:56:55,429 --> 02:57:02,047
Mr. Might be available and. That might be. Assisted. If

2374
02:57:02,092 --> 02:57:05,167
indeed we can work closely with our colleagues at the

2375
02:57:05,492 --> 02:57:10,807
province around what percentage dedication of municipal reserve land might

2376
02:57:11,132 --> 02:57:14,767
be a right number given our changing reality in the

2377
02:57:15,132 --> 02:57:19,642
communities and the need to provide school lands. Thanks. Those

2378
02:57:20,007 --> 02:57:24,077
are my questions. Next we have councilor Jeffries. Thank you,

2379
02:57:24,442 --> 02:57:30,236
chair. Through you to the administration. Is it possible to

2380
02:57:30,281 --> 02:57:32,036
give a little more context to know you did already

2381
02:57:32,401 --> 02:57:36,451
about the discussions that happened with industry around. Not only

2382
02:57:36,816 --> 02:57:39,091
the new levee, but the cost of the levy. It

2383
02:57:39,096 --> 02:57:41,731
was noted, of course, by the speaker. There was a

2384
02:57:42,016 --> 02:57:45,211
quoted number that was quite a bit lower than what

2385
02:57:45,496 --> 02:57:49,312
we're talking about here today? About one fifth. And I

2386
02:57:49,677 --> 02:57:53,058
perhaps could have asked the speaker. Where they got that

2387
02:57:53,423 --> 02:57:57,378
number from. But I'm wondering, perhaps administration had thought this

2388
02:57:57,663 --> 02:58:01,692
was going to be less. Absolutely. Through you, Mr. Chair.

2389
02:58:03,784 --> 02:58:06,099
Originally out of the gate, we presumed we'd need to

2390
02:58:06,104 --> 02:58:09,579
buy fewer acres of land and we also presume that

2391
02:58:09,664 --> 02:58:12,299
high schools would only need to be built perhaps every

2392
02:58:12,664 --> 02:58:16,219
five or six. Neighborhoods. That in and of itself would

2393
02:58:16,264 --> 02:58:19,659
have meant that the levy rate per front meter would

2394
02:58:20,024 --> 02:58:25,050
have been substantially lower. All of our conversations along the

2395
02:58:25,095 --> 02:58:29,090
way have been immediately with the existing developer. As we

2396
02:58:29,455 --> 02:58:33,180
talk about this particular site. I don't know if 30

2397
02:58:33,545 --> 02:58:36,260
was ever a number we locked and loaded, but indeed

2398
02:58:36,625 --> 02:58:40,980
we had talked in that realm of $75 to $100

2399
02:58:41,105 --> 02:58:44,180
per front meter, which would have absolutely been doable if

2400
02:58:44,225 --> 02:58:46,900
we would have only had to purchase ten or twelve

2401
02:58:47,305 --> 02:58:51,180
acres of land and indeed, high schools are only being

2402
02:58:51,585 --> 02:58:55,647
anticipated every. Six neighborhoods. It could have landed somewhere in

2403
02:58:55,652 --> 02:59:00,431
that neighborhood. That's not our current reality. We now know.

2404
02:59:01,600 --> 02:59:04,795
We will need to purchase likely 28 acres of land,

2405
02:59:04,880 --> 02:59:07,875
and we want to continue to explore whether that's the

2406
02:59:07,920 --> 02:59:11,413
right number. Or if we could reduce that. The current

2407
02:59:11,498 --> 02:59:15,733
formula is based over four new neighborhoods, and that's a

2408
02:59:15,778 --> 02:59:20,826
population of approximately. 45 to 50,000 people that that might

2409
02:59:20,871 --> 02:59:24,666
be driving population to merit a new high school. So

2410
02:59:24,751 --> 02:59:27,506
those are the numbers we're going to continue to work

2411
02:59:27,911 --> 02:59:31,746
through and see where there might be opportunities to ultimately

2412
02:59:31,831 --> 02:59:35,306
reduce the per front meter cost for the high school

2413
02:59:35,631 --> 02:59:40,119
land levy. That will be needed to purchase acres. It

2414
02:59:40,164 --> 02:59:43,319
was identified in the report that the developer in this

2415
02:59:43,684 --> 02:59:47,319
case, dream sees the value and benefit in getting this

2416
02:59:47,604 --> 02:59:50,399
project across the finish line. And as a result of

2417
02:59:50,764 --> 02:59:53,879
that has actually offered land that I think it was

2418
02:59:54,204 --> 03:00:02,375
a 15% discount. Has administration. As they calculate this levy

2419
03:00:02,940 --> 03:00:05,375
taken anything like that into account, where we would suggest

2420
03:00:05,820 --> 03:00:09,127
that. Just as the province is not going to pay

2421
03:00:09,212 --> 03:00:11,927
anything for land, for schools, perhaps we are not. Willing

2422
03:00:12,172 --> 03:00:15,247
to pay market rate to developers for schools, recognizing the

2423
03:00:15,332 --> 03:00:20,989
benefit to the developer. In having high school developments actually

2424
03:00:21,354 --> 03:00:24,659
nearby and how that helps them drive land sales. To

2425
03:00:24,704 --> 03:00:30,177
you, mr. Chair. I would say. While this report mentions

2426
03:00:30,542 --> 03:00:35,057
dreamland development because they are the current landowner where we're

2427
03:00:35,062 --> 03:00:38,577
looking. All developers have indeed come to the table related

2428
03:00:38,622 --> 03:00:42,057
to this. It's a similar principle that they provide for

2429
03:00:42,382 --> 03:00:46,017
all the elementary school sites. So with our elementary school

2430
03:00:46,422 --> 03:00:51,193
land, levy, indeed, the developers. Provide the land at approximately

2431
03:00:51,838 --> 03:00:55,833
85% of market rates and typically what they'll do to

2432
03:00:55,918 --> 03:00:58,673
use to set that rate is a reflection back on

2433
03:00:58,998 --> 03:01:03,073
the past year sales of some RMtm kinds of parcels.

2434
03:01:03,718 --> 03:01:06,073
What that's been going for. What's the average in the

2435
03:01:06,398 --> 03:01:09,113
sale? Of those, and then we set the land price.

2436
03:01:09,669 --> 03:01:13,264
At 15% below what the typical average market rate is.

2437
03:01:13,669 --> 03:01:18,144
So all developers have indeed come to the table, recognizing

2438
03:01:18,469 --> 03:01:21,104
there is a greater benefit to all communities to have

2439
03:01:21,469 --> 03:01:29,985
school amenities. Within neighborhoods. Okay. In thinking about. The levee

2440
03:01:30,310 --> 03:01:32,625
versus another way to go about this. In theory, if

2441
03:01:32,670 --> 03:01:36,025
we were allowed, would be to have more. Mr. In

2442
03:01:36,070 --> 03:01:38,745
a neighborhood. And let's say instead of it being 10%

2443
03:01:38,830 --> 03:01:42,265
it could be twelve, whatever that might be, to be

2444
03:01:42,310 --> 03:01:43,745
clear, and you can just give me a quick answer

2445
03:01:44,390 --> 03:01:46,745
on that. We're not allowed to go over 10% right

2446
03:01:46,750 --> 03:01:50,721
now. That's? Under what the province says we can and

2447
03:01:50,766 --> 03:01:55,696
can't do. Two year worship. Sorry. Just give you a

2448
03:01:55,701 --> 03:02:01,385
promotion to the chair. Through you. Just currently, the legislation

2449
03:02:01,790 --> 03:02:06,746
is ten. There is a component within the dedicated Lands

2450
03:02:06,791 --> 03:02:12,487
act that where there are higher component densities. Where there's

2451
03:02:12,532 --> 03:02:15,647
more than 50 units per hectare and I could have

2452
03:02:15,692 --> 03:02:20,989
this number wrong. That the municipality can require developers to

2453
03:02:21,274 --> 03:02:26,607
set aside some additional Mr. We have nowhere within our

2454
03:02:26,972 --> 03:02:31,849
city currently that reaches anywhere close. To those levels of

2455
03:02:31,934 --> 03:02:35,569
densities. On a neighborhood basis, there might be small blocks.

2456
03:02:36,629 --> 03:02:42,304
Coincidentally, when the regulations changed, Regina and Saskatoon approached the

2457
03:02:42,349 --> 03:02:46,601
province. To request that the municipal that dedication be increased

2458
03:02:46,966 --> 03:02:50,361
from ten to twelve to help address that and. At

2459
03:02:50,406 --> 03:02:53,884
the time it was turned down. It's something. We want

2460
03:02:53,889 --> 03:02:57,044
to reopen that conversation, given we now have a lived

2461
03:02:57,089 --> 03:03:00,604
reality. That we clearly understand what the impacts are of

2462
03:03:00,849 --> 03:03:05,131
that change in legislation. What would the financial implications be

2463
03:03:05,456 --> 03:03:09,571
for lot prices going from 10% to 12% versus having

2464
03:03:09,936 --> 03:03:14,787
a levy because ultimately. That cost is passed along in

2465
03:03:15,112 --> 03:03:17,387
one way or another. It's not magical land that just.

2466
03:03:17,432 --> 03:03:21,387
Appears and then can be built upon. It is funded

2467
03:03:21,752 --> 03:03:24,867
through the development of that neighborhood. Do we have some

2468
03:03:24,952 --> 03:03:27,936
idea of what that looks like. The difference between. One

2469
03:03:28,301 --> 03:03:31,222
and the other. Through you. Mr. Chair, if I may

2470
03:03:31,547 --> 03:03:33,982
just ask for a bit of clarification. So if. Indeed.

2471
03:03:35,904 --> 03:03:40,819
We had 12% a dedication of Mr. Versus 10% of

2472
03:03:40,904 --> 03:03:45,904
dedication. There's sort of two pieces that would be impacted.

2473
03:03:46,955 --> 03:03:49,790
There would be more. Mr. Available to allocate to school

2474
03:03:50,155 --> 03:03:54,590
sites. Thus the front meter charge for levees to purchase

2475
03:03:54,915 --> 03:03:57,840
land would be less. On the other side of the

2476
03:03:58,165 --> 03:04:01,680
books, in the pro forma for neighborhood development for developers,

2477
03:04:02,045 --> 03:04:05,600
they would have 2% less land to develop and sell,

2478
03:04:06,445 --> 03:04:10,520
and I can't speak intelligently. Around what that cost implication

2479
03:04:10,925 --> 03:04:15,272
might be. To them. But it would. So it has

2480
03:04:15,357 --> 03:04:18,872
double sided ledger sort of implications. If there was more.

2481
03:04:19,637 --> 03:04:24,994
Mr. Lot cost would be on a front meter, but

2482
03:04:25,359 --> 03:04:28,474
the overall pro forma for that neighborhood would be less

2483
03:04:28,879 --> 03:04:31,514
for a developer. Yeah. So, I mean, there's cost one

2484
03:04:31,559 --> 03:04:34,234
way or another to. Providing more land for schools if

2485
03:04:34,559 --> 03:04:36,714
it's not going to be purchased by the province of

2486
03:04:36,799 --> 03:04:39,554
Saskatchewan, but we don't know exactly what that looks like.

2487
03:04:42,494 --> 03:04:48,352
One route versus the other. Okay. That's helpful. The other

2488
03:04:48,997 --> 03:04:51,312
question is prompted by an answer that you gave, and

2489
03:04:51,357 --> 03:04:56,006
I know. That we're veering a little. From the report,

2490
03:04:56,091 --> 03:04:58,966
but not too much. You had identified that this would

2491
03:04:59,051 --> 03:05:03,006
actually be one of the largest high schools in western

2492
03:05:03,091 --> 03:05:05,766
Canada. I'm going to ask that maybe we get some

2493
03:05:06,091 --> 03:05:09,326
more. Details offline about that. But as we think about

2494
03:05:09,651 --> 03:05:12,326
that site and think about the land and the configuration

2495
03:05:12,611 --> 03:05:16,082
and everything else. Are we having conversations? With the school

2496
03:05:16,167 --> 03:05:20,623
divisions and the province about access, egress, everything else. My

2497
03:05:20,668 --> 03:05:23,598
understanding is that with the p three schools that. Were

2498
03:05:23,643 --> 03:05:25,838
built, those kind of got plunked down, and there was

2499
03:05:25,883 --> 03:05:27,358
just, hey, this is what they're going to look like.

2500
03:05:27,763 --> 03:05:30,891
Doesn't matter. What the conditions are around it. This is

2501
03:05:30,896 --> 03:05:33,651
how we're building them, and we see what the impact

2502
03:05:33,936 --> 03:05:37,858
of that has been. In particular. I see it in

2503
03:05:37,863 --> 03:05:40,938
Evergreen, but I'm sure that Councilor Lowen, for example, sees

2504
03:05:40,983 --> 03:05:45,361
it in stonebridge. Yeah. Through you, Mr. Chair. Absolutely. Those

2505
03:05:45,686 --> 03:05:48,965
have been the conversations going on, both. With the province

2506
03:05:49,290 --> 03:05:52,045
and then also the local school divisions. Some of that

2507
03:05:52,410 --> 03:05:56,365
is what's driven the school division's request to have ten

2508
03:05:56,450 --> 03:06:00,005
acre parcels of land for elementary schools now set aside

2509
03:06:00,330 --> 03:06:03,845
versus the previous eight acres, it's to help try to

2510
03:06:03,890 --> 03:06:08,493
address the overall configuration. The other is when those first

2511
03:06:08,818 --> 03:06:11,973
p three schools came to be, they landed in neighborhoods

2512
03:06:12,298 --> 03:06:16,213
that were already underway in terms of development, so a

2513
03:06:16,218 --> 03:06:19,493
little less flexibility in terms of being able to respond.

2514
03:06:19,858 --> 03:06:23,842
To the final design. We also have our colleagues in

2515
03:06:24,207 --> 03:06:29,602
transportation integrally involved in school development, and a recent one

2516
03:06:29,927 --> 03:06:33,162
is just the former scion school site that will be

2517
03:06:33,447 --> 03:06:38,517
the new Kree bilingual school. There has been massive consultations

2518
03:06:38,882 --> 03:06:41,917
with our colleagues in transportation about what that site is

2519
03:06:41,962 --> 03:06:44,957
going to look like how busing and access in egress

2520
03:06:45,362 --> 03:06:48,037
is going to happen with that and that's why they're

2521
03:06:48,402 --> 03:06:50,869
at the table now. In the early stages of doing

2522
03:06:51,554 --> 03:06:55,069
the big block kinds of considerations for this high school

2523
03:06:55,474 --> 03:06:59,940
leisure center. Parcel. Sure. And just to be clear, If

2524
03:06:59,985 --> 03:07:01,580
we're thinking back to the last number of high schools

2525
03:07:01,905 --> 03:07:06,220
that were built, Tommy Douglas Bethlehem. If we go blast

2526
03:07:06,305 --> 03:07:13,048
quarter century. Continual. St. Joseph High School, the city was

2527
03:07:13,133 --> 03:07:18,019
not required to. Provide land to provide money towards land,

2528
03:07:18,824 --> 03:07:20,699
anything like that for any of these high schools that

2529
03:07:21,024 --> 03:07:23,819
have been built, kind of, let's say, in my lifetime.

2530
03:07:25,509 --> 03:07:28,304
Through you, Mr. Chair. That's absolutely correct. So it's fair

2531
03:07:28,589 --> 03:07:32,236
to say that this is a new cost and. This

2532
03:07:32,281 --> 03:07:34,716
is if the province just followed what they did previously.

2533
03:07:35,672 --> 03:07:39,081
With high schools. We would not be having to look

2534
03:07:39,486 --> 03:07:46,515
at. A high school. Levy at all. That is correct.

2535
03:07:47,726 --> 03:07:51,041
So ultimately, this is passing the cost on from them

2536
03:07:51,486 --> 03:07:58,981
to us. That wasn't there previously. Correct. Okay. Good old

2537
03:07:59,066 --> 03:08:02,949
download. I think that's all I have for questions. Thank

2538
03:08:02,994 --> 03:08:09,048
you, chair. Councilor Goff. I have no original questions, but

2539
03:08:09,053 --> 03:08:13,123
I do want to make sure I understand everything. I

2540
03:08:13,168 --> 03:08:16,403
don't. They've all been asked. Thankfully. You're going to ask

2541
03:08:16,768 --> 03:08:19,723
all. The questions again. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm going to

2542
03:08:19,728 --> 03:08:23,096
go through them all. No. I'm going to pull a

2543
03:08:23,101 --> 03:08:25,376
hillary here and say what I think I understand in

2544
03:08:25,381 --> 03:08:29,376
my own words and ask general manager La Croix correct

2545
03:08:29,821 --> 03:08:34,728
me. So provincial legislation requires us to provide land. That

2546
03:08:35,053 --> 03:08:39,728
requirement has expanded and grown, and we have two tools.

2547
03:08:40,373 --> 03:08:45,816
Mr. Requirements and levees and therefore. We cannot require more.

2548
03:08:46,221 --> 03:08:48,376
Mr. That is not a tool we have available to

2549
03:08:48,421 --> 03:08:51,136
respond to the expansion. And growth of the land requirements.

2550
03:08:51,781 --> 03:08:57,489
So the tools we have are to shrink parks. To

2551
03:08:57,854 --> 03:09:01,724
use the levees. To be able to purchase more land

2552
03:09:02,089 --> 03:09:06,829
or to fund land some other way. Which ultimately require,

2553
03:09:07,234 --> 03:09:11,007
regardless of the routing of those dollars, Is residential tax

2554
03:09:11,372 --> 03:09:15,407
dollars or residential and commercial tax dollars. Have I missed

2555
03:09:15,452 --> 03:09:18,960
anything? Through you, Mr. Chair. No, you've captured that nicely.

2556
03:09:19,365 --> 03:09:23,486
Okay, thanks. And Councilor Goff, are you willing to move

2557
03:09:23,531 --> 03:09:33,154
those four recommendations? Any comments? Councilor

2558
03:09:33,559 --> 03:09:39,738
loan. Thanks, chair Davies. I think I just want to

2559
03:09:40,023 --> 03:09:42,498
start by saying that I'm going to express some frustration.

2560
03:09:45,709 --> 03:09:47,544
In the next few minutes, and I don't want that

2561
03:09:47,869 --> 03:09:52,876
to be a reflection. Of. My feelings about how our

2562
03:09:52,961 --> 03:09:56,646
administration has responded to this challenge. Because I know that

2563
03:09:56,931 --> 03:10:02,148
this is yet another. Situation. Where? Jurisdiction becomes very messy.

2564
03:10:02,473 --> 03:10:04,668
And the things that we didn't used to need to

2565
03:10:04,953 --> 03:10:09,527
take responsibility. For. We are asked to be responsible for.

2566
03:10:10,673 --> 03:10:13,108
I think I share a lot of the concerns that

2567
03:10:13,673 --> 03:10:20,489
were sort of identified through the report. The reduction in

2568
03:10:20,614 --> 03:10:24,698
available green space, I think. Is. Of significant concern to

2569
03:10:25,023 --> 03:10:28,086
me, and I just want to say that. I think

2570
03:10:28,611 --> 03:10:30,406
one of the trade offs that we know is really

2571
03:10:30,811 --> 03:10:34,046
essential for quality of life when we are increasing density

2572
03:10:34,611 --> 03:10:40,407
in neighborhoods when we're offering more multifamily. Units as a

2573
03:10:40,412 --> 03:10:43,127
proportion of the overall neighborhood. We know it's really important

2574
03:10:43,492 --> 03:10:47,516
for people to. Have access to green space for recreation,

2575
03:10:47,881 --> 03:10:52,223
leisure, community building. And so I'm quite concerned about. Our

2576
03:10:52,668 --> 03:10:55,423
shrinking ability to offer that in new neighborhoods. And I

2577
03:10:55,468 --> 03:10:59,863
know administration shares those concerns. So this is a general

2578
03:11:00,348 --> 03:11:07,263
comment. I also think the size and the scope. Of

2579
03:11:07,668 --> 03:11:10,543
a facility like this certainly gives me pause, sort of

2580
03:11:10,908 --> 03:11:15,463
from a traffic planning perspective. I'm concerned to hear about.

2581
03:11:16,672 --> 03:11:21,507
The abundant parking that's being pursued because, of course, the

2582
03:11:21,552 --> 03:11:23,907
more single vehicle trips made to a site like this,

2583
03:11:24,552 --> 03:11:26,827
the more challenging it is to provide a safe context

2584
03:11:26,912 --> 03:11:30,288
for those arriving on foot and by bike. We also

2585
03:11:30,693 --> 03:11:33,408
are trying to facilitate a modal shift in the community,

2586
03:11:33,773 --> 03:11:36,671
and so I hope. We can keep an eye on

2587
03:11:36,676 --> 03:11:42,391
that as those negotiations proceed. Having schools is absolutely essential

2588
03:11:42,756 --> 03:11:45,031
to the health of communities. And this is in no

2589
03:11:45,316 --> 03:11:49,854
means a criticism or. A skepticism about the necessity of

2590
03:11:49,899 --> 03:11:58,729
having these schools. But. It's creating. Problems for us.

2591
03:11:59,988 --> 03:12:02,842
Which. I think are complicated to explain to the public.

2592
03:12:03,527 --> 03:12:05,442
And here we are in a situation where we're creating

2593
03:12:05,727 --> 03:12:08,082
new levees, which is really the only way for us

2594
03:12:08,447 --> 03:12:12,594
to do this without having. A broad property tax impact.

2595
03:12:13,576 --> 03:12:15,971
And so do I want to introduce new levees? No,

2596
03:12:16,336 --> 03:12:18,651
but I want the industry and the general public to

2597
03:12:18,696 --> 03:12:21,331
understand that this is the most appropriate way to fund

2598
03:12:21,696 --> 03:12:23,931
these investments that we're being asked to make for which

2599
03:12:23,936 --> 03:12:29,913
we do not. Have designated revenue tools already. So is

2600
03:12:29,918 --> 03:12:31,873
it exciting for us to approve a new levee today?

2601
03:12:32,678 --> 03:12:35,033
No, but this is necessary. For us to keep these

2602
03:12:35,358 --> 03:12:39,753
costs off property tax and to try to equalize the

2603
03:12:39,798 --> 03:12:42,313
investment in these schools as much as possible. So I

2604
03:12:42,398 --> 03:12:44,553
appreciate very much the problem solving. I know this has

2605
03:12:44,598 --> 03:12:47,793
been incredibly complicated, and the stick handling that administration has

2606
03:12:47,798 --> 03:12:50,926
done on this file. I'm frustrated that we're in this

2607
03:12:50,971 --> 03:12:54,046
position. I absolutely want to see these schools. As part

2608
03:12:54,371 --> 03:12:57,446
of our growing city, but I hope we can continue

2609
03:12:57,771 --> 03:12:59,806
to negotiate with the province in a way that protects

2610
03:13:00,131 --> 03:13:04,023
our interests of having available park space. Of having not

2611
03:13:04,388 --> 03:13:08,023
to be asked to make investments in areas of jurisdiction

2612
03:13:08,308 --> 03:13:12,033
which belong to other orders. Of government. And councilor Jeffries.

2613
03:13:15,464 --> 03:13:20,277
Thank you, chair, and I will just quickly inject. A

2614
03:13:20,322 --> 03:13:23,517
question. If our administration will allow that or the chair

2615
03:13:23,762 --> 03:13:26,837
will allow that, it actually would be directed towards Miss

2616
03:13:27,202 --> 03:13:32,026
Manistrosky. And it was identified. That perhaps what we're looking

2617
03:13:32,071 --> 03:13:35,426
at here with a levy would not be allowable under

2618
03:13:35,471 --> 03:13:38,552
the planning and development Act. I gather. I like to

2619
03:13:38,597 --> 03:13:40,952
think that the things that we come up with tend

2620
03:13:41,277 --> 03:13:44,312
to be legal. Or based on good legal advice, and

2621
03:13:44,597 --> 03:13:48,312
I just would hope to very quickly have your assessment

2622
03:13:48,717 --> 03:13:52,312
and thoughts about what has been proposed here and how

2623
03:13:52,597 --> 03:13:59,573
that falls under our authority. Through you, Mr. Chair. There's

2624
03:13:59,618 --> 03:14:01,053
nothing that I can think of that comes to mind

2625
03:14:01,378 --> 03:14:04,893
that would prohibit us from. Creating such a levy. Having

2626
03:14:04,978 --> 03:14:09,115
said that, I can certainly review the act and provide

2627
03:14:10,040 --> 03:14:15,514
something further offline. But. There are no red flags right

2628
03:14:15,559 --> 03:14:17,874
now in terms of our ability to take this approach,

2629
03:14:18,479 --> 03:14:20,794
and it would be fair to say, functionally, this is

2630
03:14:20,839 --> 03:14:23,672
really not. Different in terms of what we're looking at

2631
03:14:23,997 --> 03:14:27,152
or funding than the existing levy that we have that

2632
03:14:27,397 --> 03:14:31,860
funds elementary school sites. Yeah. Thank you. That's what I

2633
03:14:31,905 --> 03:14:34,660
was just going to add. It mirrors exactly what we're

2634
03:14:34,665 --> 03:14:37,620
doing with the elementary school land levy, which has now

2635
03:14:37,705 --> 03:14:43,167
been in place. For roughly ten years. And we've never

2636
03:14:43,492 --> 03:14:46,327
had any questions to date about the authority to have

2637
03:14:46,612 --> 03:14:50,647
that levy in. Place. Correct. Okay. Thank you. So now

2638
03:14:50,932 --> 03:14:56,006
I'll move to comments. Which. Is what I heard today

2639
03:14:56,411 --> 03:15:00,350
here from our administration. Are three things. One is that

2640
03:15:00,675 --> 03:15:03,510
we're doing our very best to make sure that as

2641
03:15:03,835 --> 03:15:07,237
we build new neighborhoods. Not only do we have the

2642
03:15:07,282 --> 03:15:11,372
amenities that folks need, whether. That's things like schools and

2643
03:15:11,417 --> 03:15:14,052
high schools, but we're trying to create places that are

2644
03:15:14,057 --> 03:15:17,292
really livable, and to me, that means providing as much.

2645
03:15:18,204 --> 03:15:21,951
Park space as we possibly can. Under the regulations that

2646
03:15:21,996 --> 03:15:26,823
we have right now, around 10% municipal reserve. And I

2647
03:15:26,868 --> 03:15:29,063
think it was well noted. And I can't remember if

2648
03:15:29,068 --> 03:15:31,743
it was one of my colleagues or member of administration.

2649
03:15:32,899 --> 03:15:35,254
About the fact that we have some areas now that

2650
03:15:35,579 --> 03:15:39,256
in our new neighborhoods that are very dense. And the

2651
03:15:39,261 --> 03:15:42,836
fact is, That you can go. I can go show

2652
03:15:43,121 --> 03:15:45,036
you some of the parks right now in Evergreen where

2653
03:15:45,721 --> 03:15:49,796
we have significant density. Of multi unit sites and the

2654
03:15:49,801 --> 03:15:52,476
only place for families and for kids to go play

2655
03:15:52,881 --> 03:15:55,476
and to enjoy the outdoors is actually in our public

2656
03:15:55,561 --> 03:15:58,676
spaces because they don't have backyards and they don't have

2657
03:15:59,001 --> 03:16:02,122
play places on site. And we could go to the

2658
03:16:02,167 --> 03:16:06,041
east side of Evergreen, east of McCorman right now. Or

2659
03:16:06,486 --> 03:16:08,881
how about 5 hours from now and you'll see some

2660
03:16:09,126 --> 03:16:12,521
of those playgrounds? Absolutely. Teeming with kids, especially on a

2661
03:16:12,526 --> 03:16:16,621
nice. Night like tonight. And primarily we're talking about families

2662
03:16:16,986 --> 03:16:20,101
and kids that otherwise don't. Have a place to play

2663
03:16:20,186 --> 03:16:23,982
in their own backyard. So one of the principles for

2664
03:16:23,987 --> 03:16:26,662
me in all of this is not taking that away

2665
03:16:26,707 --> 03:16:32,551
from kids. And families. In order to. Pay for or

2666
03:16:32,956 --> 03:16:36,431
create land for high schools, and understanding that both of

2667
03:16:36,476 --> 03:16:41,063
these principles are important. So one of the things that's

2668
03:16:41,108 --> 03:16:42,783
going to be important for me to keep an eye

2669
03:16:42,828 --> 03:16:45,463
on, on all of this is as we push and

2670
03:16:45,828 --> 03:16:51,138
Cajole and lobby. And ask the province to reconsider some

2671
03:16:51,143 --> 03:16:54,778
of the pieces, either around not funding land or not

2672
03:16:55,183 --> 03:16:58,818
having sufficient municipal reserve to be able to dedicate some

2673
03:16:58,823 --> 03:17:03,105
of those lands to schools. But as we make progress,

2674
03:17:03,470 --> 03:17:06,409
or as we hope to make progress. I heard it

2675
03:17:06,414 --> 03:17:09,866
very clearly today that. Any levy like this that exists

2676
03:17:10,271 --> 03:17:12,426
if the cost goes down, if we have other sources

2677
03:17:12,471 --> 03:17:15,026
of revenue. Or we no longer need to provide as

2678
03:17:15,071 --> 03:17:18,783
much land. That the levy itself goes down as well,

2679
03:17:19,468 --> 03:17:22,503
and that's something that gives me comfort here. But the

2680
03:17:22,548 --> 03:17:24,823
central issue that we're dealing with today, and I know

2681
03:17:25,108 --> 03:17:27,543
it was already mentioned, by colleagues. And this is something

2682
03:17:27,908 --> 03:17:31,543
that I think bears repeating, is this is a download.

2683
03:17:32,617 --> 03:17:35,012
These are costs that 20 years ago we were not

2684
03:17:35,377 --> 03:17:38,924
asked to bear. And these are costs that today we

2685
03:17:38,969 --> 03:17:42,536
are being asked to bear. And when our level of

2686
03:17:42,581 --> 03:17:45,136
government is asked to bear these costs, it's not some

2687
03:17:45,501 --> 03:17:49,216
nebulous. Cloud of money that suddenly floats down and makes

2688
03:17:49,501 --> 03:17:51,656
sure that land is available for new high schools. The

2689
03:17:51,701 --> 03:17:54,336
fact is, it has to come from somewhere. And we

2690
03:17:54,381 --> 03:17:57,576
have a principle, generally speaking. That growth pays for growth.

2691
03:17:58,641 --> 03:18:03,327
So that means. It starts to go into. This method

2692
03:18:03,732 --> 03:18:07,287
of funding. So I want everyone to understand who's watching,

2693
03:18:08,012 --> 03:18:10,407
and I want folks in the development community to understand

2694
03:18:11,212 --> 03:18:16,140
that although you may be frustrated today, With this report.

2695
03:18:17,357 --> 03:18:21,082
And. With the way that we've addressed this issue as

2696
03:18:21,447 --> 03:18:24,562
it relates to a levy, the fact is that we

2697
03:18:24,607 --> 03:18:27,562
are only doing this because, a, we believe in building

2698
03:18:27,727 --> 03:18:30,162
high schools and making sure that that happens, as I

2699
03:18:30,167 --> 03:18:33,322
know our development community does as well, but because the

2700
03:18:33,327 --> 03:18:36,042
province of Saskatchewan has said they no longer want to

2701
03:18:36,047 --> 03:18:38,537
pay for things that they used to pay for. And

2702
03:18:38,942 --> 03:18:43,260
if. You want to aim your frustration in one direction.

2703
03:18:45,143 --> 03:18:47,538
We're not the ones who are bringing this forward. We're

2704
03:18:47,543 --> 03:18:49,778
not the ones who. Are forcing this issue. The fact

2705
03:18:50,143 --> 03:18:52,338
is that we've got a growing province. We have growing

2706
03:18:52,743 --> 03:18:54,898
communities. And we have an order of government that no

2707
03:18:54,983 --> 03:18:58,051
longer wants to pay for something anymore. And that's why

2708
03:18:58,376 --> 03:19:01,491
we're in this position. So I hope that folks will

2709
03:19:01,616 --> 03:19:05,860
understand. That. And that we share our feedback and concerns

2710
03:19:05,945 --> 03:19:12,608
accordingly. Thank you, chair. Great councilor block. Thanks, chair Davies.

2711
03:19:12,973 --> 03:19:15,648
I think I'll try to focus my comments on the

2712
03:19:15,733 --> 03:19:21,960
affordability piece. It's not lost on me that we've covered

2713
03:19:22,285 --> 03:19:25,440
two huge topics today, and the first half is dealing

2714
03:19:25,765 --> 03:19:28,880
exclusively with trying to make housing more affordable, and now

2715
03:19:28,925 --> 03:19:30,720
we're dealing with one that's going to make it more

2716
03:19:30,765 --> 03:19:36,004
expensive. And I think. It's all centrally coming down to

2717
03:19:36,409 --> 03:19:38,764
who's got skin in this game to try. To make

2718
03:19:38,849 --> 03:19:42,764
our city and our province more affordable, that we can

2719
03:19:43,129 --> 03:19:45,444
develop in a way that people can afford to live

2720
03:19:45,489 --> 03:19:48,836
here. And I would hope that as we go forward

2721
03:19:49,601 --> 03:19:52,396
with talks with the provincial government and the development community

2722
03:19:53,201 --> 03:19:55,356
that we are all reminded that we're in it together

2723
03:19:55,441 --> 03:19:58,932
and that we all need skin in that game. And

2724
03:19:58,977 --> 03:20:01,252
that the amount of leverage that the city can come

2725
03:20:01,297 --> 03:20:03,612
to bear is one piece of it. And our ability

2726
03:20:03,977 --> 03:20:08,670
to find allies with other municipalities. I think is there.

2727
03:20:09,475 --> 03:20:12,590
Although as the fastest growing city in the province, perhaps

2728
03:20:12,635 --> 03:20:17,435
the pressures aren't. Quite. As. Harsh as it is in

2729
03:20:17,480 --> 03:20:19,995
our community right now, so I still think that those

2730
03:20:20,080 --> 03:20:23,155
allies are important. The big city mayor's caucus could be

2731
03:20:23,520 --> 03:20:27,235
a support, but truly the developers have a strong voice.

2732
03:20:29,765 --> 03:20:35,163
In. How government makes decisions. And so I guess my

2733
03:20:35,248 --> 03:20:37,883
comment is that I hope that we can find a

2734
03:20:37,888 --> 03:20:41,683
way to work together to understand that affordability is in

2735
03:20:41,728 --> 03:20:45,443
the best interest of every single municipality in this province.

2736
03:20:46,168 --> 03:20:49,092
And that finding a better way forward. Is good for

2737
03:20:49,417 --> 03:20:53,715
all of us. Thanks. Not seeing any other comments, so

2738
03:20:53,760 --> 03:20:56,475
it's been moved by councilor Goff. So I will call

2739
03:20:56,800 --> 03:21:02,952
the question. Any opposed? And that carries. So while we

2740
03:21:03,037 --> 03:21:06,387
move back in our agenda, We will be remiss that

2741
03:21:06,712 --> 03:21:09,507
I need somebody to adopt the minutes I missed that

2742
03:21:10,352 --> 03:21:11,627
so. We're going to have to go back to the

2743
03:21:11,632 --> 03:21:13,387
start of the meeting if we can. Get the speakers

2744
03:21:13,432 --> 03:21:16,581
back. So let's move by Councilor Lowen. I'll call the

2745
03:21:16,626 --> 03:21:19,997
question and the opposed. That carries. And so that will

2746
03:21:20,362 --> 03:21:25,357
take us to 7.2.120 24 assistance to community groups, cash

2747
03:21:25,722 --> 03:21:29,157
awards. Ms. Lacroix yeah, great. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This

2748
03:21:29,202 --> 03:21:32,277
report provides an overview of the recommended grants under the

2749
03:21:32,602 --> 03:21:37,237
Assistance Community Groups for 2024. The Assistance to Community group

2750
03:21:37,882 --> 03:21:41,587
social services subcommittee. Is a committee appointed by city council,

2751
03:21:41,952 --> 03:21:45,107
and the members include Gary Bowden, chairperson, who is here

2752
03:21:45,472 --> 03:21:48,187
with us today and has spent his entire morning with

2753
03:21:48,192 --> 03:21:55,952
us. Aaron Ganye, Jody Glines, Emily Gabor and Tayaba Sultana.

2754
03:21:55,997 --> 03:21:59,792
The committee has reviewed all requests followed by the guidelines

2755
03:21:59,877 --> 03:22:04,398
set out in the policy. Their recommendation includes support totaling

2756
03:22:04,443 --> 03:22:11,620
over 585,000. Represent support to 29 agencies. Appendix one provides

2757
03:22:11,985 --> 03:22:15,380
a full list of the agencies. The grant is also

2758
03:22:15,465 --> 03:22:19,940
administered in part with collaboration under the CESt and collaborative

2759
03:22:20,265 --> 03:22:23,368
funders and the United Way of Canada. There are two

2760
03:22:23,453 --> 03:22:27,408
recommendations in the reports and administration and the subcommittee chair,

2761
03:22:27,453 --> 03:22:31,557
Mr. Bowden, are here. For any questions. So, Councilor goff.

2762
03:22:34,738 --> 03:22:37,533
Thank you, Chair Davies. And I want to thank the

2763
03:22:37,818 --> 03:22:44,038
folks who've been with us all. Day. To represent this

2764
03:22:44,123 --> 03:22:46,838
work, and it is really important collaborative work, so thank

2765
03:22:46,843 --> 03:22:51,883
you very much. And I know that. There's always huge

2766
03:22:52,288 --> 03:22:55,751
demand on these grants. And I apologize if I missed

2767
03:22:55,796 --> 03:23:00,344
it in the report, but I'm wondering. If there's a

2768
03:23:00,429 --> 03:23:04,676
summary. Of. Kind of what the value of the applications

2769
03:23:04,681 --> 03:23:10,199
to this grant. Were this round. There were 58 applications

2770
03:23:10,564 --> 03:23:14,919
requesting a total of just over $2.8 million worth of

2771
03:23:14,964 --> 03:23:19,919
grant. Funding, and we have just over 585,000 available for

2772
03:23:20,284 --> 03:23:25,769
funding. So over five times. Subscribed, correct. And we've had

2773
03:23:25,814 --> 03:23:29,809
this discussion before. Which brings me to my next question.

2774
03:23:31,465 --> 03:23:40,091
And that is. Around. The underway review of the program.

2775
03:23:41,572 --> 03:23:43,527
And the report says that we will be getting some

2776
03:23:43,932 --> 03:23:47,127
reporting later this year for that. And I'm looking forward

2777
03:23:47,532 --> 03:23:53,103
to that. Respecting. The program and the policy. I'm wondering

2778
03:23:53,428 --> 03:23:56,583
if that reporting will speak to the capacity of this

2779
03:23:56,628 --> 03:23:58,880
program. I know we had a little bit of a

2780
03:23:59,165 --> 03:24:02,866
preview of that. When? In the budget documents this past

2781
03:24:03,271 --> 03:24:06,702
year. Signaling this being a pressure point, but I'm wondering

2782
03:24:07,027 --> 03:24:09,662
if there will be proposals related to the capacity of

2783
03:24:09,667 --> 03:24:12,702
this program in that reporting. Yeah. Thank you. Through you,

2784
03:24:12,747 --> 03:24:15,902
Mr. Chair. Yes, absolutely. That's part of what the review

2785
03:24:15,987 --> 03:24:19,592
is. Year over year. For the past decade or more,

2786
03:24:19,957 --> 03:24:24,832
we've been oversubscribed. The current $2 per capita rate was

2787
03:24:25,197 --> 03:24:29,312
set sometime, I'm going to say close to 1999. Maybe

2788
03:24:29,637 --> 03:24:33,672
2000. So now, going on 24, 25 years ago, that

2789
03:24:33,997 --> 03:24:37,732
$2 per capita. So while it grows by the. Percentage

2790
03:24:38,097 --> 03:24:40,972
population growth. What we are seeing is the number of

2791
03:24:41,297 --> 03:24:46,172
folks struggling with affordability and requiring support of social serving

2792
03:24:46,257 --> 03:24:51,582
agencies has grown disproportionately to the actual. Population growth of

2793
03:24:51,947 --> 03:24:55,502
Saskatoon. So that part of the reporting will be to

2794
03:24:55,547 --> 03:25:00,326
talk about. A new, targeted per capita funding for this

2795
03:25:00,371 --> 03:25:04,726
grant and has been exploring what other municipalities are indeed

2796
03:25:04,811 --> 03:25:09,402
looking to allocate towards. Social support to social serving agencies.

2797
03:25:10,127 --> 03:25:16,204
Okay. Thank you. Those are all my questions. Great. And

2798
03:25:16,489 --> 03:25:21,959
you move those recommendations. Awesome. Thank you. Any other questions

2799
03:25:22,044 --> 03:25:25,996
or comments? And I just like to echo those comments.

2800
03:25:26,081 --> 03:25:28,156
Thanks very much for your work on this. You're, welcome

2801
03:25:28,241 --> 03:25:30,916
to come to every committee meeting. A formal invite will

2802
03:25:31,201 --> 03:25:32,716
come in the mail, so we appreciate you being here.

2803
03:25:33,121 --> 03:25:38,041
The support. So, again, thank you. So carry on to

2804
03:25:38,086 --> 03:25:42,481
7.2.220 24 rec and community development tax abatements. Mr. Gray.

2805
03:25:42,806 --> 03:25:44,681
Yeah. Great. Here we are, coming in on the home

2806
03:25:45,006 --> 03:25:48,241
stretch. Probably will end a minute. Or two before time.

2807
03:25:49,318 --> 03:25:53,172
This report. Is the summary of tax abatements being recommended

2808
03:25:53,177 --> 03:25:58,332
for approval for eligible organizations qualifying under three different support

2809
03:25:58,457 --> 03:26:01,932
programs. This is recommending a total of just over $1

2810
03:26:02,257 --> 03:26:08,492
million in tax abatements to 30 eligible organizations. Five organizations

2811
03:26:08,537 --> 03:26:12,473
under the recreation and sport tax ab. Abatement program for

2812
03:26:12,558 --> 03:26:19,073
about 140,018 organizations under the Assistance to Community grant social

2813
03:26:19,518 --> 03:26:26,682
services totaling 717,007 organizations in the Culture grant program. Totaling

2814
03:26:27,007 --> 03:26:32,042
approximately 180,000. Appendix one includes a list of all organizations

2815
03:26:32,327 --> 03:26:35,002
for each of the programs and the abatements they are

2816
03:26:35,047 --> 03:26:39,002
being recommended for. This amount has been accounted for within

2817
03:26:39,087 --> 03:26:44,190
the 2024 operating budget. And include the amount shown, include

2818
03:26:44,435 --> 03:26:48,430
the city and library portion of the taxes, the education

2819
03:26:48,635 --> 03:26:51,310
portion of the taxes are administered, as we know, by

2820
03:26:51,635 --> 03:26:56,084
the province and. They typically follow the city for. Education

2821
03:26:56,689 --> 03:27:00,804
portion up to 25,000. Anything beyond that, the city applies

2822
03:27:01,129 --> 03:27:04,724
to the province for the formal abatement. There's one recommendation.

2823
03:27:05,750 --> 03:27:10,675
And administration is available for any questions. Any questions? Not

2824
03:27:11,040 --> 03:27:16,305
see any comments. Somebody willing to move that recommendation. Councilor

2825
03:27:16,350 --> 03:27:22,272
Lawrence. Great call. The question any opposed? That carries. Brings

2826
03:27:22,317 --> 03:27:25,283
us to the end of our agenda, I believe. Heavy

2827
03:27:25,328 --> 03:27:28,363
agenda today. I don't see any motions. Any urgent business,

2828
03:27:28,728 --> 03:27:31,883
Mr. Croix? None. You don't want to talk about your

2829
03:27:31,928 --> 03:27:35,803
retirement dates, plans, what you have? Carry on. Anybody given

2830
03:27:35,928 --> 03:27:40,155
notice today? Not seeing any. We do not have an

2831
03:27:40,200 --> 03:27:42,555
in camera session, so I will call our meeting adjourned.

2832
03:27:43,200 --> 03:27:43,835
Two minutes before.