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Good evening, everyone. I would like to call the order

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this public hearing meeting of City Council for Wednesday, August

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26th as we gather on Tradey Six Territory and the

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traditional homeland of the May T People. In this commemorative

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month as we mark the 150th anniversary of the signing

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of Treaty 6. In Chambers tonight we have councillors, Jeffrey's

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Dubois Ford Kelleher Parker McDonald and Pierce. We have Councillor

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Donauer online, Councillor Donauer. Yes, you're from here. Can you

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hear me? Yes, we can, thank you. Councillor DePohn will

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not be joining us and we are still awaiting. Oh,

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Councillor Davies, you're online. Can I just want to make

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sure you can hear us. Councillor

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Davies. We'll make sure that we can get a communication

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to him and make sure that he can confirm that

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he is here for the beginning of any public hearing.

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As those gathered no, it's important that any Council member

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is in attendance for every part of a Public Carry

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in order to be able to vote. So it's important

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that we make sure that he has that communication. And

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if we have a technical issue, perhaps I would await

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a flag on that so that we don't miss out

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on a Council Member participating. Gotta get somebody to move

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confirmation of the agenda. Move by Councillor McDonald and seconded

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by Councillor Pierce. Is anyone opposed. I am seeing none,

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and that is inclusive of a number of requests to

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speak. And as it is a Public Hearing, anyone in

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the gallery is able to speak following the Speakers that

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are on the list. Does anyone have a conflict of

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interest to declare. I am seeing none. Could I get

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a mover for the adoption of the minutes moved by

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Councillor Dubois and seconded by Councillor Ford? Is anyone opposed.

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I see none. I'd like to try one more time.

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Councillor Davies, are you with us for this Public Hearing?

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Terrific. Fantastic. We shall proceed. We go now to 5.

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1. 1 zoning bylaw Text Amendments, primary dwellings in established

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neighbourhoods, sidewall area, and dorsal height. If I could get

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a mover for first reading of Byla No. 102. So

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you might. Want to join. Okay. Thank you for flagging

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that City Clark Titamore. We have one Council member, Councillor

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T. Moan, who is able now is able to join

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us virtually. And so we are just going to take

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a quick moment to get him connected, and we will

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be on our way shortly.

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All right. Councillor Tmone, can you hear me.

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Yes, I can. Terrific. Okay, I think we have all

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members of Council participating in this Public Hearing. So we

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will move forward and ask, did I ask this already?

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A mover in secondary for first reading of the Byla.

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I'll ask again. Mover in second of her first reading,

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move by Councillor McDonald's, seconded by Councillor Kelleher. Is anyone

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opposed. Seeing none, the hearing is now open, and I

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will turn it over to our administration. Thank you, Madam

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Chair. Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Paula

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Catocic Toth, senior planner with a Planning and Development, Department.

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Tonight I will be presenting Zoning Byla Tax Amendment. This

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is an amendment to the text of the Zoning Byla,

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number 9990. The Zoning Bylaw regulates held Landon Buildings can

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be used within Municipality. Its purpose is to guide development,

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protect public interests, and ensure that different land uses are

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organised and compatible. This is different from MAP Amendment, which

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Council often sees as that is the specific rezoning of

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a site. The amendments are specific to primary dwellings in

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the established neighbourhoods, and we also have a housekeeping amendment

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for gardening garage suites. If approved, these changes will apply

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to all primary dwellings, both new and existing in the

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established neighbourhoods and to garden garage and garden suites throughwide.

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The amendments have been separated into two public hearings for

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each topic. The project background will be provided in the

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first presentation. Bylaw number 102. 03 provides the amendments for

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primary dwellings. After the agenda was published, we phoned an

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error on figure 5. 1, 19c on page 5 of

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the attached bylaw. The bottom of the picture. In the

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bottom picture, the larger portion of the dwelling should be

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87 square metres, not 78 is shown. This has been

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corrected in the proposed bylaw. And just to note, this

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figure is an illustration of the regulations and does not

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provide a regulation as an example only. By all number

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10204, provides the text amendment to the garden grass suite

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regulations. Next slide. In 2013, the neighbourhood

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level, infield development strategy, was undertaken to respond to concerns

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and established neighbourhoods for new development that was occurring specific

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to large infill houses. This report contained recommendations for the

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creation of garden and grass suites, primary dwellings, and for

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corner site development. This report was endorsed by City Council

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in December of 23. They're 2013, pardon me. The regulations

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for primary dwellings were drafted based on the recommendations in

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the report. At that time, a working group with staff,

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the development community and the public develop the regulations for

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sidewall among others, including the Dorsill height and front porches.

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This collaboration created a maiden Saskatoon solution by the creation

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of the sidewall area regulation. In 2022, as part of

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the Zoning Byla Review Planning and Development brought forward a

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report for amendments to the infill regulations, including the ones

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we're considering tonight. Sidewall area endorsal height. City Council did

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not approve the amendments and asked for clarification on these

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elements insidewall. This is covered in the bylaw in front

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of you tonight. Next slide. This slide provides the background

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for bringing the amendments forward at this time. Under the

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housing action plan and our agreement to receive funding under

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the housing accelerator fund, we committed to reviewing regulations for

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infill development. In regard to the half targets, we have

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met some of them. However, housing is still needed in

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our community. And the amendments tonight provide for additional housing

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units and improvements to our residential areas.

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Next slide, please. Based on our commitments to have, we

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hired consultant, middle, and small housing to complete a report

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with several recommendations, including the Garden of Garage Suite. Primary

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dwellings, which are one and two unit and semi -

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detouched wellings. And four unit dwellings in the established neighbourhood,

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and multiple unit dwellings on corner sites. This is the

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second report recommending Zoning Bylax Amendments. The previous amendments for

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Garden and Garage Suites and Swell Multiple Unit dwellings were

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adopted by City Council on May 27th of this year.

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Next slide, please. Enfield Development generally refers to the Development

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within the established neighbourhoods. Which includes those neighbourhoods with encircle

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drive plus Montgomery Place, Forest Grove and Sutherland. The map

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shows the two categories. The blue areas are the pre

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- World War II neighbourhoods and the pink are post

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- war. These categories were developed. Back in 2013 with

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a neighbourhood level infield development strategy. The regulations that exist

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for primary dwellings today were developed from that strategy, and

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there are some regulations that only apply to category one

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primary dwellings. Next slide, please. Bylan number 10203. The next

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few slides will walk you through the Proposed Byla change.

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Before I begin, I would like to provide the following.

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To note, I have worked on this file in various

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capacities since 2013. And I'd like to identify some ongoing

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themes. Neighbourhoods are changing. And being renewed through new construction.

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Some neighbourhoods more than others. And change is not easy

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for residents. Infill residential development is complex. There are one

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- off issues that arise can arise due to any

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unique issue or circumstance on our particular site. As example,

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City trees, water and sewer. Other technical issues that may

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occur. And lastly, the city has tried to balance and

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needs of the greater community. Local residents in the development

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industry. In 2015, when we brought Bylaws forward to implement

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these changes, we experience the same situation we have today.

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With speakers, both foreign against the amendments. Next slide, please.

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The current regulation for Dorsill Height requires that the DoriSill

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for permeate wellings and category one neighbourhoods be a maximum

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of one metres, pardon. This is proposed to be 1.

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3 metres or approximately one foot greater than the current

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regulation. The current regulation can create challenges for basement design

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and livability, including window placement and size and access to

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natural light. These challenges can be more significant for dwellings

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with basement secondary suite, as well as infill housing forms

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were an efficient use of space is important. Through our

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consultation over the years, servicing constraints, including shallow, including shallow

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utilities, may also limit the feasible design options and substantially

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increased construction costs due to this regulation. Next slide, please.

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So sidewall area. Sidewall area regulations control the size and

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massing of the sidewalls of the dwelling. This regulation uses

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height, setbacks, and site depth to limit the visual bulk

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of infill development. The allowable sidewall area applies to primary

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dwellings and is intended to ensure that building proportions are

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made consistent with the surrounding development patterns. A sidewall is

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the exterior of a building wall that faces a side

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property line. We're a building has multiple wall planes or

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step backs only the portion of the wall that align

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in the same direction are included in the sidewall area

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calculation. Next slide. Please. So this slide explains the area

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sidewall calculation. It looks like a bit of a geometry

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problem, but I'll do my best to explain it. Step

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one. The wall height is determined by a 45 degree

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angular plane measured from a height of six metres, projecting

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vertically from the side property line. The allowable wall height

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is determined where building setback's intersect the 45 degree angular

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plate. The calculation of this is essentially six metres or

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six plus the side yard setback. So in most cases

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where the minimum side yard setback is. 75 metres, this

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number is 6. 75. Step two, determine wall length. The

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maximum allowable wall length depends on the site depth. For

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site's less than 40 metres in depth, the maximum wall

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height is 14 metres. For sites greater than 40 metres

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in depth, the wall length is determined by site depth.

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Times 50 percent minus the required front yard setback. Through

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the allowable sidewall area, these two numbers are multiplied. However,

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this doesn't limit designed to a box, but rather provides

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the maximum area of sidewall that can be utilised when

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designing the home. Next slide, please. The amendment tonight keeps

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the sidewal area sidewall area control in place. While reducing

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unduted consequences. The report from middle and small housing indicated

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that the side will regulation was an impediment to housing

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development. This, just, the report did not prescribe a method.

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And through our work with the development industry, we are

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proposing the following. I would like to note that we

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worked with developers and designers who both wanted to retain

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or strengthen this regulation. And those wishing to increase or

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remove the sidewall area regulation. Tonight, we have prepared a

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balanced approach and our proposing that to increase the allowable

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solidal area by 10 percent. Exempt portions of the sidewall

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set more back than 4. 5 metres from the side

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property line. Exempt facades along a flanking street and to

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clarify exemptions for features like covered patios and decks and

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three season rooms. Next slide, please. The proposed ink, it

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is proposed at sidewall increased by 10 percent. This calculation

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is explained on the previous slides and will be adjusted

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to increase the essentials rectangle by 10 percent. This is

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much simpler than exempting specific design features such as dormers,

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gables, or other things for interpretation. Any grey areas are

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perceived grey areas in the Zoning bylaw require additional work

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for planning, staff, and frustrate designers and builders. The intent

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of this is to bribe a modest amount for additional

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design flexibility while retaining the sidewall area regulations original purpose

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for managing building massing. The infrared review identified situations where

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the existing calculation can unnecessarily constrain building design, even when

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the Proposal continues to apply with the API applicable 8.

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5 maximum building height. Side, rear, in front yard setbacks.

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Even on narrow sites, this allows for more interior space.

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Next slide, please. This is a corner site. Corner sites

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have access from both the flanking and front streets. And

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throughout our work on Enfil throughout the years have been

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identified for additional development and density. This slide illustrates the

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form of the Bing's former building that could be built

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on a quarter site. With a portion of the building

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setback 4. 5 metres from the adjacent site. The change

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would remove the regulation on the port on corner sites

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proposes that as the flanking street has a different relationship

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and does not create the same adjacent property mass and

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impact. It allows for design flexibility and for the ability

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to build an attached garage with an amendment to the

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flanking street. For the four - point metre setback exemption,

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just to note the minimum side yard setback is. 07

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metres. 075 metres. The purpose of, as the purpose of

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the sidewall area regulation is to primarily manage perceived massing

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of the billing in relation to adjacent property. We're a

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portion of the building is set back more than 4.

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5 metres from the side property line. There's a greater

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separation from neighbouring property and the potential massing impact is

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reduced. Exempting this portion allows for greater flexibility in building

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design. Well portions of the building located closer to the

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neighbouring properties will continue to be regulated. This exemption only

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would apply to that portion set back greater than 4.

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5 metres. And portions of the building closer to the

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cyprien line remain subject to the area of the sidewall

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regulation. Next slide, please. This is an example of corner

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00:20:06,165 --> 00:20:09,483
site development in one of our older neighbourhoods. This form

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00:20:09,523 --> 00:20:12,984
is very common in the established neighbourhoods. And when the

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00:20:13,005 --> 00:20:16,824
sidewall restriction is removed off the flanking streets, a concentrates

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00:20:16,864 --> 00:20:21,544
the massing away from the adjacent dwelling as the homeowner

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00:20:21,544 --> 00:20:26,385
would have their yard behind the dwelling. Rather than additional

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00:20:26,406 --> 00:20:29,265
space on a flanking street or in the front yard.

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00:20:30,610 --> 00:20:35,878
Next slide, please. The last amendments are to clarify what

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00:20:35,979 --> 00:20:40,758
is to determine clarification on what is included in sidewall,

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00:20:40,758 --> 00:20:43,933
and that's the first bullet. And the second bullet proposes

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00:20:43,973 --> 00:20:48,488
to exempt three season rooms. As they do not contribute

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00:20:48,488 --> 00:20:51,528
to the massing as they are one story required to

248
00:20:51,528 --> 00:20:57,507
have open walls. And also are proposing a clarification. That

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00:20:57,928 --> 00:21:01,347
sidewall is not counted for open areas, including their supporting

250
00:21:01,387 --> 00:21:03,071
structure. Next slide, please.

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00:21:13,733 --> 00:21:17,872
This slide provides summary of the engage summary of engagement

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00:21:17,893 --> 00:21:22,444
on this amendment. However, I'd like to like to note,

253
00:21:22,625 --> 00:21:25,224
middle and small housing did engagement as part of the

254
00:21:25,425 --> 00:21:29,324
infill project that they did. They conducted focus groups with

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00:21:29,585 --> 00:21:34,986
community representatives. Builders, developers, architects, designers and city staff. This

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00:21:35,087 --> 00:21:38,826
included two mixed panels and follow - up interviews. The

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00:21:38,847 --> 00:21:41,466
City in the consulting team also hosted a Public Online

258
00:21:41,647 --> 00:21:47,585
Forum. Information session on October 23rd, 2015. The findings and

259
00:21:47,625 --> 00:21:50,945
recommendations were presented and participants were able to ask questions.

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00:21:52,540 --> 00:21:54,199
A follow - up survey was sent to those who

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00:21:54,239 --> 00:21:57,808
attended the information session. It was based on the work

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00:21:57,989 --> 00:22:02,048
to date. We understand that the industry mostly wants the

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00:22:02,048 --> 00:22:07,328
regulations removed. And that the community mostly wants them to

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00:22:07,349 --> 00:22:10,108
stay or even be strengthened. We feel that our current

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00:22:10,689 --> 00:22:16,653
approach reflects a balance between these consideration. For metechnical perspective,

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00:22:16,653 --> 00:22:18,893
we feel that all the work is done and we

267
00:22:18,893 --> 00:22:23,731
do not need further technical review. This come down to

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00:22:23,832 --> 00:22:28,478
balancing the perspectives of our community. This concludes my presentation

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00:22:28,579 --> 00:22:33,678
on the enemy's departmentary dwelling regulation and administration is recommending

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00:22:33,718 --> 00:22:39,547
that the Propose Amendments be approved. Thank you. Thank you

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00:22:39,728 --> 00:22:43,696
for the presentation. The floor is open for questions. From

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00:22:43,797 --> 00:22:44,096
Council.

273
00:22:54,318 --> 00:22:56,937
Uh, I'm sorry. We should go to the speakers before.

274
00:22:56,977 --> 00:22:58,217
I was just checking if you guys wanted to ask

275
00:22:58,217 --> 00:23:01,357
questions first. We used to go to Secrets. We'll do

276
00:23:01,357 --> 00:23:06,577
that first. Uh, that sounds like a better approach. And

277
00:23:06,577 --> 00:23:10,197
I'm going to go first to Margaret Thompson. And as

278
00:23:10,197 --> 00:23:12,757
you make your way, uh, just a reminder to everyone

279
00:23:12,778 --> 00:23:16,677
in the gallery that you are allowed five minutes for

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00:23:16,717 --> 00:23:21,321
your presentation at four minutes, the Amber. Lights go on.

281
00:23:23,442 --> 00:23:26,941
I missed the NPC report too. Okay. It's been a

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00:23:26,941 --> 00:23:35,233
long day. Excuse me, Ms. Thompson. Ms. Thompson. Ms. Thompson.

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00:23:37,781 --> 00:23:40,000
If you don't mind, can I just ask you to

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00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,320
step aside for a moment while I'm going to invite

285
00:23:42,661 --> 00:23:46,560
the Municipal Planning Commission to make their presentation? Uh, I

286
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,080
have the notes right in front of me knowing that

287
00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:49,600
this is what I'm supposed to do. So this is

288
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,310
all on me guys. Sorry.

289
00:24:04,382 --> 00:24:12,246
This? That's okay. Let's keep. Going. All right. Good evening,

290
00:24:12,286 --> 00:24:14,326
worship and members of council. My name is Craig Harley,

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00:24:14,326 --> 00:24:16,086
chair of the Municipal Planning Commission. Thank you for having

292
00:24:16,126 --> 00:24:19,737
me this evening. The Municipal Plan and Commission at its

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00:24:19,777 --> 00:24:23,097
regular meeting held on June 23rd, 2026, considered a report

294
00:24:23,137 --> 00:24:27,657
of the Community Services Division regarding Propose Zoning Biolatex Amendments

295
00:24:27,697 --> 00:24:31,897
for Sidewall Area Calculations and Dorsill Height Regulations for Primary

296
00:24:31,918 --> 00:24:35,949
Dwellings in Established Neighbourhoods. The Commission's report attached to the

297
00:24:35,949 --> 00:24:37,789
agenda and my comments this evening while I was a

298
00:24:37,789 --> 00:24:40,349
stand for the Propose owning Bylax Amendments for Garden and

299
00:24:40,389 --> 00:24:45,132
Garage Suites in item 5. 1. 2. During the meeting,

300
00:24:45,172 --> 00:24:48,892
the Commission members discussed the effectiveness and complexity of the

301
00:24:48,932 --> 00:24:56,257
sidewall area rule. Considered its impact on infill development. Alternatives

302
00:24:56,257 --> 00:24:59,217
such as setbacks and lot coverage, and the rationale for

303
00:24:59,217 --> 00:25:04,455
retaining and not simply removing the regulations. A letter submitting

304
00:25:04,556 --> 00:25:08,455
comments from Nicole Burgess from the Saskatoon Region Home Builders

305
00:25:08,455 --> 00:25:13,515
Association was provided. The Commission members reviewed points from the

306
00:25:13,555 --> 00:25:17,332
letter. Discussing the adequacy of the 10 percent sidewall area

307
00:25:17,353 --> 00:25:23,374
increase. And the 4. 5 metre setback exclusion. Particularly for

308
00:25:23,475 --> 00:25:27,765
smaller lots. The members also sought clarification on the use

309
00:25:27,805 --> 00:25:32,893
of terms like Gable in the Bylaw Language. And the

310
00:25:32,893 --> 00:25:37,693
specifics of the administration committing to clear language in the

311
00:25:37,733 --> 00:25:43,118
final Biola draft before Council today. After discussion, the Commission

312
00:25:43,158 --> 00:25:45,678
was satisfied with the responses to questions and is recommending

313
00:25:45,678 --> 00:25:48,798
that the Proposed Zoning Bylate text amendments for the primary

314
00:25:48,838 --> 00:25:53,209
dwellings. In established neighbourhoods sidewall area and door - sill

315
00:25:53,249 --> 00:25:56,217
height be approved. Thank you. Do we have questions for

316
00:25:57,358 --> 00:26:02,015
Mr. Harley? Councillor Dubois. Thank you Mayor Bloch. Thank you

317
00:26:02,055 --> 00:26:03,775
for the report and thanks for your work on the

318
00:26:03,876 --> 00:26:07,295
commission. Can you tell me, was it a unanimous vote

319
00:26:07,396 --> 00:26:10,575
at the Municipal Platinum Commission? Yes, it was. Okay, thank

320
00:26:10,575 --> 00:26:16,935
you. Are there any other questions? Seeing none. Thank you,

321
00:26:16,935 --> 00:26:21,965
Mr. Hurley. And Ms. Thompson, I apologise this time you

322
00:26:21,965 --> 00:26:23,705
are up. And I think you know the rules, but

323
00:26:23,705 --> 00:26:26,925
just for everyone else. You have five minutes. After four

324
00:26:26,925 --> 00:26:30,205
minutes, the Amberlite comes on five minutes, the red light

325
00:26:30,245 --> 00:26:33,485
goes on, it's a very loud noise, and your presentation

326
00:26:33,506 --> 00:26:36,525
will need to conclude. So with that, I will turn

327
00:26:36,866 --> 00:26:39,565
the podium over to Ms. Thompson and ask you to

328
00:26:39,605 --> 00:26:42,765
introduce yourself and you're ready. Thank you. My name is

329
00:26:42,866 --> 00:26:47,805
Margaret Thompson. Your worship mayor block and councillors. I appreciate

330
00:26:48,226 --> 00:26:51,085
this opportunity to have my voice heard as I suspect

331
00:26:51,586 --> 00:26:55,805
that most residents in established neighbourhoods are blissfully unaware of

332
00:26:55,845 --> 00:26:59,965
what council is considering accepting in this suggested by Lord

333
00:26:59,965 --> 00:27:04,630
Amendment. Until the spring, when the house on the Colonel

334
00:27:04,670 --> 00:27:08,790
Lauder Jason to my property was demolished, I too, naive

335
00:27:08,891 --> 00:27:13,030
about infills. However, when I attended my first meeting of

336
00:27:13,030 --> 00:27:16,470
the Development Appeal Board, I learned how the building industry

337
00:27:16,971 --> 00:27:21,813
promotes their interpretation of the City bylaws. Today's submission from

338
00:27:21,994 --> 00:27:27,483
this industry highlights their approach. They demand predictability. Surely a

339
00:27:27,483 --> 00:27:32,117
sidewall formula and by laws achieve this goal. Apparently not.

340
00:27:32,632 --> 00:27:34,931
As they are trying to remove the formula and are

341
00:27:34,931 --> 00:27:39,558
picking away at our effective infill bylaws. However, then they

342
00:27:39,598 --> 00:27:43,638
are complaining. They need flexibility. In addition, they want simple

343
00:27:43,819 --> 00:27:47,238
and easy to understand regulations. But then they try and

344
00:27:47,238 --> 00:27:52,198
put their own interpretation on simple phrases, like making reference

345
00:27:52,379 --> 00:27:56,629
to similar builds that are not at all similar. I

346
00:27:56,650 --> 00:28:00,889
have lived in Utana for 57 years. I am not

347
00:28:01,070 --> 00:28:03,609
against the demolition of old homes to be replaced with

348
00:28:04,110 --> 00:28:07,609
ones that have the capacity to be energy efficient and

349
00:28:07,710 --> 00:28:11,217
wired with the latest technology. What I am against is

350
00:28:11,558 --> 00:28:15,617
this move to replace existing moderately - sized homes with

351
00:28:15,718 --> 00:28:20,097
massive mansions more suited to an acreage than the landscapes

352
00:28:20,198 --> 00:28:24,842
of the established neighbourhoods like Nutana and Varsity Bu. I

353
00:28:24,882 --> 00:28:27,962
am retired and therefore have had the luxury of the

354
00:28:28,002 --> 00:28:31,482
time to ask questions of City staff about what is

355
00:28:31,482 --> 00:28:36,850
permitted and an infill. The CitySarf have been unfailingly helpful,

356
00:28:36,850 --> 00:28:40,210
but I have become increasingly concerned at the limited protection

357
00:28:40,871 --> 00:28:45,250
afforded by City bylaws to adjacent property owners and the

358
00:28:45,290 --> 00:28:48,850
campaign by developers and builders to weaken the current system.

359
00:28:49,919 --> 00:28:53,680
Which though it could be strengthened is working. I'd like

360
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,960
to remind Council that the Bylaw relating to sidewalk restrictions

361
00:28:57,141 --> 00:29:01,440
was approved in 2015 because of the number of complaints

362
00:29:01,621 --> 00:29:05,120
that were being made about in fulls. It's been highly

363
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,740
successful in cutting down these complaints. Now council is being

364
00:29:08,780 --> 00:29:12,980
encouraged by the Saskatoon home builders association to ease the

365
00:29:13,161 --> 00:29:18,820
sidewall restrictions for what they refer to as design, sensibilities.

366
00:29:18,860 --> 00:29:22,900
This is a ridiculous rationale. The development appealed board has

367
00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:27,380
the power to ground variances in special circumstances while still

368
00:29:27,380 --> 00:29:31,060
maintaining the intent of the bylaws to protect neighbouring properties

369
00:29:31,721 --> 00:29:36,358
from an infills excessive mass. These bylaws have been successful

370
00:29:36,779 --> 00:29:41,431
and should be left alone. Now, if this bylaw amendment

371
00:29:41,471 --> 00:29:45,671
goes through, it will mean, for example, homes which are

372
00:29:45,692 --> 00:29:48,951
alongside side lots will have no protection from the mass

373
00:29:48,991 --> 00:29:51,111
of the build next to them, as there'll be no

374
00:29:51,292 --> 00:29:54,391
constraints on the sidewall facing the road on that type

375
00:29:54,391 --> 00:30:04,164
of lot. Our neighbour,

376
00:30:04,164 --> 00:30:09,134
whose original plans for a building had almost. Referred to

377
00:30:09,155 --> 00:30:13,134
in the appeal board hearing as single story were actually

378
00:30:13,475 --> 00:30:16,654
almost as tall as my true story house. It has

379
00:30:16,654 --> 00:30:18,974
the amendment passes. All he needs to do is to

380
00:30:19,014 --> 00:30:22,494
apply for a revised building permit and another Munster house

381
00:30:22,675 --> 00:30:26,781
is born. The number of building designs was so caught

382
00:30:26,962 --> 00:30:30,541
three seasoned rooms will surely saw. These rooms were not

383
00:30:30,562 --> 00:30:33,981
counting the sidewalk calculations. They for the life of me

384
00:30:34,082 --> 00:30:36,381
I see no difference in the mass of a regular

385
00:30:36,802 --> 00:30:40,541
forces in room and a three - season room. In

386
00:30:40,541 --> 00:30:43,581
closing, I would suggest far more needs to be known

387
00:30:44,002 --> 00:30:47,581
about the impact of the current influx of infills in

388
00:30:47,621 --> 00:30:51,101
established neighbourhoods. What is the impact of these infills on

389
00:30:51,282 --> 00:30:55,101
adjacent properties? To what extent has the City's canopy of

390
00:30:55,141 --> 00:31:00,771
trees been affected. What about drainages use. So survey the

391
00:31:00,771 --> 00:31:04,451
property owners don't just rely on guidance from the Satin

392
00:31:04,472 --> 00:31:08,457
home builders association. And I respectfully ask counsel to stand

393
00:31:08,878 --> 00:31:14,511
firm. Don't change the infill bylaws. Defeat this bylaw amendment

394
00:31:14,772 --> 00:31:18,841
and protect our established neighbourhoods from being destroyed. And thank

395
00:31:18,841 --> 00:31:23,581
you for listening. Any questions. I will open up the

396
00:31:23,682 --> 00:31:28,752
floor of questions. I'm not seeing any, but thank you

397
00:31:28,752 --> 00:31:37,278
for being here. Next is Douglas Thompson. Hello.

398
00:31:38,952 --> 00:31:43,711
Hello, Mr. Thompson. We can hear you. Okay, I've submitted

399
00:31:43,751 --> 00:31:53,624
a video. In case the connection problem. Okay. Thank

400
00:31:53,624 --> 00:31:59,042
you. Good morning or good evening. Madam Mayor. City of

401
00:31:59,082 --> 00:32:02,763
Saskatoon Council. Thank you for allowing me to submit my

402
00:32:02,784 --> 00:32:08,443
video comments on the bylaw amendment discussion for maximum sidewall

403
00:32:08,443 --> 00:32:12,603
square footage. I live on Temperance Street in Varsity View.

404
00:32:12,603 --> 00:32:15,643
And my mother lives on University Drive in New Tana.

405
00:32:17,010 --> 00:32:19,229
It just so happens that my mother's home is second

406
00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:22,688
from the corner. So the bylaw amendments that are going

407
00:32:22,688 --> 00:32:25,968
to be discussed before city council are rather important to

408
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:30,538
our family. It's important to understand that our family has

409
00:32:30,578 --> 00:32:34,218
been learning a lot more about maximum sidewall square footage

410
00:32:34,479 --> 00:32:37,419
over the past few months. It just so happens that

411
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,779
the corner home next to my mother has been taken

412
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:46,459
down and, uh, new infill is being constructed right now.

413
00:32:46,978 --> 00:32:50,477
Now when I saw the proposed design, I thought it

414
00:32:50,498 --> 00:32:52,397
looked good and it did look good. And it was

415
00:32:52,437 --> 00:32:55,997
a great design, but it's not suited for a residential

416
00:32:56,178 --> 00:32:59,517
street in Saskatoon. It'd be much more suited for an

417
00:32:59,517 --> 00:33:04,513
acreage. For example, the attached garage is 1100 square feet.

418
00:33:05,719 --> 00:33:09,458
And, uh, the walls were 13 foot 10 inches tall.

419
00:33:09,458 --> 00:33:13,858
Now granted, they were an attached garage. So, uh, as

420
00:33:13,858 --> 00:33:15,858
far as the height restrictions, they don't have the height

421
00:33:15,959 --> 00:33:20,258
restrictions. There's a detached garage. But nonetheless, the proposed design

422
00:33:20,759 --> 00:33:24,658
exceeded the current bylaws by 21 percent on one side

423
00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:31,648
and 39 percent on the other. City council understands the

424
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:38,432
unintended consequences of these bylaws relating to corner lots. Because

425
00:33:38,472 --> 00:33:40,112
when I looked at it and I looked at the

426
00:33:40,453 --> 00:33:45,312
proposed design that was changed as a result of the

427
00:33:45,312 --> 00:33:47,792
refusal of the city to allow, uh, them to proceed.

428
00:33:48,789 --> 00:33:51,568
Anything more than 4. 5 metres from the property line

429
00:33:51,989 --> 00:33:55,808
will not count towards the maximum sidewall square footage. And

430
00:33:55,848 --> 00:33:59,168
anything basing a side street, like in the case of

431
00:33:59,829 --> 00:34:02,208
the corner lot next to my mom, it won't count

432
00:34:02,248 --> 00:34:05,248
as well. So now all of a sudden this 1100

433
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:09,168
square foot, uh, garage potentially is back on the, on

434
00:34:09,208 --> 00:34:14,709
the table again. If City Council approves, uh, these amendments,

435
00:34:14,709 --> 00:34:17,509
uh, the builder and the developer and the homeowner can

436
00:34:17,509 --> 00:34:21,509
go down to City Hall and submit a permit revision

437
00:34:21,850 --> 00:34:24,629
and say, okay, we want to change our plans again

438
00:34:25,370 --> 00:34:27,649
because now as a right, we can build it. And

439
00:34:27,649 --> 00:34:31,189
in fact, instead of, uh, going with the, uh, the

440
00:34:31,189 --> 00:34:36,049
original plan, which was a seven metre, uh, tall, uh,

441
00:34:36,410 --> 00:34:41,953
attached garage. Why not just keep on going up? Because

442
00:34:41,993 --> 00:34:44,513
nothing counts anymore. If it's more than four and a

443
00:34:44,513 --> 00:34:48,273
half metres. So technically they can actually make the place

444
00:34:48,273 --> 00:34:52,433
even larger. So instead of going, where my mom is,

445
00:34:52,433 --> 00:34:56,064
uh, my mom is over here. Mom helmet is over

446
00:34:56,085 --> 00:34:58,926
up. My mom's property is over here. On the proposed

447
00:34:58,947 --> 00:35:03,086
design that was seven metres, uh, tall for the attached

448
00:35:03,126 --> 00:35:05,726
garage. They can just keep on going up and they

449
00:35:05,726 --> 00:35:07,326
can go right up to eight and a half metres.

450
00:35:08,228 --> 00:35:10,785
Because nothing counts anymore. And now all of a sudden

451
00:35:11,406 --> 00:35:13,705
when my mom goes out into our backyard or my

452
00:35:13,705 --> 00:35:16,425
mom's in her kitchen with a big window looking out

453
00:35:16,465 --> 00:35:19,785
in the backyard, there's not going to be any light.

454
00:35:19,785 --> 00:35:22,665
It's just going to be a wall of, uh, of

455
00:35:22,686 --> 00:35:25,903
building and shingles. You're going to be able to create

456
00:35:26,004 --> 00:35:30,223
an entire wall and that entire triple car garage, 1100

457
00:35:30,324 --> 00:35:33,343
square feet or whatever it was, I think 103 metres

458
00:35:33,383 --> 00:35:37,134
squared. It won't count at all. The only restriction will

459
00:35:37,174 --> 00:35:44,584
be site coverage. This, these bylaw amendments are going to

460
00:35:44,805 --> 00:35:48,049
create a lot of conflict amongst neighbours. And once it's

461
00:35:48,089 --> 00:35:52,115
been done, it can't just be undone. I won city

462
00:35:52,155 --> 00:35:55,155
council to understand how, how little four and a half

463
00:35:55,155 --> 00:35:57,955
metres is. Four and a half metres is only 14

464
00:35:58,056 --> 00:36:01,795
foot nine inches. That's less than the length of two

465
00:36:01,835 --> 00:36:08,247
sheet supply wood. I got my tape measure out. And

466
00:36:08,287 --> 00:36:11,350
I set it up on the corner here. And I

467
00:36:11,350 --> 00:36:14,885
went over to here. Just over to this chair to

468
00:36:14,885 --> 00:36:19,673
the midpoint of this chair. There we go. That's four

469
00:36:19,694 --> 00:36:22,685
and a half metres. That's not very much. That's not

470
00:36:22,685 --> 00:36:25,386
very much at all. And so now if you go

471
00:36:25,426 --> 00:36:28,086
with something like that, if you set up your, uh,

472
00:36:28,767 --> 00:36:31,226
your, uh, your corner lot, you can go all the

473
00:36:31,226 --> 00:36:33,546
way up to eight and a half metres and not

474
00:36:33,586 --> 00:36:36,666
one square inch will count towards the maximum sidewall square

475
00:36:36,706 --> 00:36:40,396
footage. This is going to create a lot of conflict.

476
00:36:40,396 --> 00:36:44,227
An urged city council to turn down this amendment. Thank

477
00:36:44,267 --> 00:36:47,587
you very much. Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Other questions for

478
00:36:47,587 --> 00:36:54,769
the speaker. I'm not seeing any, uh, thank you for

479
00:36:54,870 --> 00:37:02,497
your presentation. Nicole Burgess. Thank you. Nicole, are you online?

480
00:37:02,497 --> 00:37:06,097
Oh, sorry. You're in this, in the chambers. Awesome. Uh.

481
00:37:07,910 --> 00:37:12,147
Can begin the introduce yourself when you're ready. Okay. Good

482
00:37:12,168 --> 00:37:14,947
evening. Your worship and members of Council. And thank you

483
00:37:14,947 --> 00:37:17,347
so much for the opportunity to speak today. My name

484
00:37:17,347 --> 00:37:19,987
is Nicole Burgess and I'm the CEO of the SaaTonian

485
00:37:19,987 --> 00:37:22,867
Region Home Builders Association. And I'm here to speak in

486
00:37:22,867 --> 00:37:25,267
support of package two coming out of the city's infill

487
00:37:25,307 --> 00:37:29,827
review process. Before I begin, I want to recognise administration

488
00:37:29,827 --> 00:37:31,907
for the immense amount of work that went into getting

489
00:37:31,928 --> 00:37:35,267
this package here. This has been a lengthy process with

490
00:37:35,368 --> 00:37:39,507
significant engagement and many different perspectives to balance. And we

491
00:37:39,547 --> 00:37:41,667
truly appreciate all the work that has been done to

492
00:37:41,707 --> 00:37:45,747
move these changes forward. So tonight my ask is simple.

493
00:37:46,321 --> 00:37:50,460
Please approve package too. It is a positive, long overdue

494
00:37:50,801 --> 00:37:54,060
and important step forward. But I'm also hoping that this

495
00:37:54,161 --> 00:37:57,340
isn't the final step. Because the more work to be

496
00:37:57,361 --> 00:38:00,460
done if the city is serious about meeting its infill

497
00:38:00,500 --> 00:38:06,130
targets. And those targets matter because in film matters. Infill

498
00:38:06,130 --> 00:38:10,930
creates housing choice and opportunities for gentle density and affordability.

499
00:38:11,031 --> 00:38:14,770
It renews aging housing stock, provides a city with additional

500
00:38:14,951 --> 00:38:18,050
tax revenue and makes better use of the infrastructure we

501
00:38:18,151 --> 00:38:22,050
already have. So this is not simply an industry priority.

502
00:38:22,510 --> 00:38:26,898
It's a city priority. It's your priority. The official community

503
00:38:26,999 --> 00:38:32,178
plan calls for 50 percent of long - term growths

504
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,058
in regulatory barriers. And I can tell you that in

505
00:38:37,058 --> 00:38:41,298
my time with the association and countless conversations with infill

506
00:38:41,319 --> 00:38:44,738
builders and designers and everything that I have learned through

507
00:38:44,778 --> 00:38:49,739
this review. I keep coming back to one conclusion. Saskatoon

508
00:38:49,739 --> 00:38:52,539
has some of the most restrictive. Very terrify. And complex

509
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,233
is now joining. Then anywhere in Canada. And if Council

510
00:38:58,233 --> 00:39:02,073
is serious about increasing their infill targets, that should matter.

511
00:39:03,155 --> 00:39:05,934
For us, the clearest example of this is the sidewall

512
00:39:05,934 --> 00:39:10,974
calculation. The City's independent review found that Saskatoon layers this

513
00:39:10,974 --> 00:39:15,454
additional complex mass and control onto infill homes beyond height.

514
00:39:16,016 --> 00:39:20,075
Setbacks, and site coverage. The review also could not identify

515
00:39:20,336 --> 00:39:23,755
one other city currently using the same measure. So this

516
00:39:23,856 --> 00:39:28,555
regulation is very unique to Saskatoon. So the question then

517
00:39:28,555 --> 00:39:32,235
becomes, what is different about Saskatoon? That means the usual

518
00:39:32,656 --> 00:39:37,090
Zoning Controls used elsewhere are not sufficient here. Because sidewall

519
00:39:37,130 --> 00:39:41,230
is not just complicated math on paper. Right now a

520
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:44,910
home can comply with all the requirements and still require

521
00:39:45,251 --> 00:39:48,830
costly redesigned because of it. And the review further found

522
00:39:49,171 --> 00:39:53,310
it can actually penalize thoughtful design choices that add to

523
00:39:53,310 --> 00:39:57,870
the neighbourhood character like Gables articulation and larger side setbacks.

524
00:39:58,131 --> 00:40:00,750
Well also encouraging at the same time more simple building

525
00:40:00,771 --> 00:40:04,422
forms just to make the calculation work. Now I do

526
00:40:04,462 --> 00:40:07,942
want to be fair to administration's concern around massing. Yes,

527
00:40:08,043 --> 00:40:11,142
sidewall adds another layer of control over to size. But

528
00:40:11,403 --> 00:40:16,262
height, setbacks and site coverage already limit how large a

529
00:40:16,302 --> 00:40:18,102
home can be and where it sits on the lot.

530
00:40:18,279 --> 00:40:23,324
So why then does Saskatoon need this additional layer? And

531
00:40:23,364 --> 00:40:27,164
could removing sidewall allow a larger build form in some

532
00:40:27,164 --> 00:40:32,295
circumstances? Yes, absolutely. And sometimes we need that. But just

533
00:40:32,316 --> 00:40:36,135
because zoning allows something does not mean that's what's going

534
00:40:36,135 --> 00:40:39,255
to get built. In practice, I can assure you that

535
00:40:39,596 --> 00:40:42,215
what actually gets built is rarely determined by the maximum

536
00:40:42,556 --> 00:40:46,050
size zoning weight might allow. Instead, it is driven by

537
00:40:46,071 --> 00:40:51,570
things like the buyer, the lot, design preferences, the market,

538
00:40:51,570 --> 00:40:55,385
and especially today what people can afford. And sometimes having

539
00:40:55,406 --> 00:40:59,625
that flexibility is exactly what allows the right housing solution

540
00:40:59,646 --> 00:41:03,945
to work on a particular site. For example, on an

541
00:41:03,985 --> 00:41:08,185
affordable or multifamily infill project, the amount of usable area

542
00:41:08,366 --> 00:41:12,585
can directly affect Project Viability. And in some cases determine

543
00:41:12,926 --> 00:41:16,693
whether an additional unit can be accommodated at all. So

544
00:41:17,034 --> 00:41:20,293
yes, sidewall can have a very real impact on how

545
00:41:20,474 --> 00:41:24,382
much housing gets built. So if Saskatoon truly needs this

546
00:41:24,382 --> 00:41:29,050
additional regulation, then let's identify why. And determine whether there's

547
00:41:29,090 --> 00:41:32,650
a simpler, more predictable way to achieve a similar outcome.

548
00:41:33,151 --> 00:41:37,042
Which brings me to my second ask. Please direct administration

549
00:41:37,082 --> 00:41:40,482
to continue working with industry and other stakeholders to further

550
00:41:40,903 --> 00:41:44,802
evaluate removal of the sidewall calculation. And whether it's objectives

551
00:41:44,802 --> 00:41:49,042
can be achieved through simpler, more conventional zoning controls. I'm

552
00:41:49,063 --> 00:41:52,642
not asking counsel to consider removing sidewall tonight. I am

553
00:41:52,663 --> 00:41:56,382
simply asking you to approve the amendments before you, and

554
00:41:56,382 --> 00:41:58,642
please keep the door open to going further. Thank you

555
00:41:58,663 --> 00:42:02,909
very much. Any questions? Uh, open up the floor for

556
00:42:02,930 --> 00:42:06,625
questions. Councillor Pierce. Thank you, worship. Thank you for being

557
00:42:06,646 --> 00:42:09,185
here. Uh, you made a comment about us having the

558
00:42:09,185 --> 00:42:13,025
most restrictive requirements in Canada. Like, can you quantify that

559
00:42:13,126 --> 00:42:16,145
for me? Because I know of some pretty restrictive places

560
00:42:16,326 --> 00:42:20,225
in Canada. So I'm trying to appreciate that comment. And

561
00:42:20,246 --> 00:42:22,765
it really comes down to that sidewall calculation and the

562
00:42:22,765 --> 00:42:25,745
complexity that it prevents to development. I am not saying

563
00:42:26,246 --> 00:42:30,705
we're the only one that is very restrictive. But my

564
00:42:30,726 --> 00:42:33,505
conclusion after all the discussions I've had with many different

565
00:42:34,006 --> 00:42:37,345
infill builders and designers and everything I learned, um, through

566
00:42:37,846 --> 00:42:42,625
this report, that the independent consultant produced leads me to

567
00:42:42,665 --> 00:42:46,625
believe we are among the most restrictive and complex, yes.

568
00:42:46,726 --> 00:42:51,344
Okay. Thank you. I don't see another, oh, Council Killer.

569
00:42:52,386 --> 00:42:57,245
Thank you. And through you, your worship, uh, Ms. Burgess.

570
00:42:58,547 --> 00:43:01,966
In your opinion, Dori, could you just comment on what

571
00:43:01,987 --> 00:43:08,766
utility you believe, you know, this sidewall requirement provides that

572
00:43:08,947 --> 00:43:15,246
isn't accomplished through setback requirements height restrictions. And, uh, the

573
00:43:15,286 --> 00:43:19,726
site footprint. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Like as administration

574
00:43:19,827 --> 00:43:23,866
noted, sidewall was created for a reason. And it was

575
00:43:23,866 --> 00:43:28,526
to prevent this overly massing of houses is what we

576
00:43:28,547 --> 00:43:33,166
say. So, um, does the sidewall accomplish that in these

577
00:43:33,187 --> 00:43:36,046
established neighbourhoods? Yeah. It does. It does keep a house

578
00:43:36,227 --> 00:43:39,806
small. Um, it's not the same rules that apply when

579
00:43:39,907 --> 00:43:43,086
you're in a newer development area. Um, it's very specific

580
00:43:43,427 --> 00:43:49,086
to, to infill. But it's also got regulations by height.

581
00:43:49,086 --> 00:43:51,486
Height is still much shorter. And this isn't being addressed

582
00:43:51,747 --> 00:43:53,806
in any way shape or form in this package. We're

583
00:43:53,806 --> 00:43:56,926
just talking sidewall here. Um, so there, even if you

584
00:43:57,107 --> 00:43:59,566
remove sidewall, you're still not going to be as big

585
00:43:59,587 --> 00:44:05,301
as a house. In Stonebridge, for example. Um, so we're

586
00:44:05,301 --> 00:44:08,901
not talking necessarily, you know, we're talking a lot about

587
00:44:09,082 --> 00:44:12,821
monster hoses and mansions. But in my frame of reference,

588
00:44:12,821 --> 00:44:16,981
I'm also considering four units and three units in other

589
00:44:17,082 --> 00:44:21,221
neighbourhoods like Sutherland and Confederation in other areas that are

590
00:44:21,242 --> 00:44:24,821
equally impacted by these regulations that are limited by what

591
00:44:24,861 --> 00:44:32,062
they can build. Okay. Thank you. Council Sarport. Thank you,

592
00:44:32,062 --> 00:44:36,072
your worship through you. To Ms. Burgess. I just had

593
00:44:36,093 --> 00:44:45,243
one question, especially in established neighbourhoods. Does infill development guaranteed

594
00:44:45,283 --> 00:44:52,674
density. And does it also guarantee affordability. Because it's all

595
00:44:52,674 --> 00:44:56,194
based on what type of the development happens, correct? Absolutely.

596
00:44:56,535 --> 00:44:59,474
Absolutely. Um, you know, when we were going through the

597
00:44:59,575 --> 00:45:03,634
housing accelerator fund, um, you know, the idea for units

598
00:45:03,735 --> 00:45:07,694
as of right, um, honestly, when we looked at, and

599
00:45:07,694 --> 00:45:09,854
there was a lot of analysis that was done, uh,

600
00:45:09,895 --> 00:45:12,754
the various lot sizes that would apply. And in most

601
00:45:12,754 --> 00:45:15,954
cases, um, we kept coming to the conclusion that it's

602
00:45:15,954 --> 00:45:19,554
just not buildable. Like it's just not feasible, which definitely

603
00:45:19,815 --> 00:45:24,654
would restrict what development would go in. So, you know,

604
00:45:24,695 --> 00:45:30,034
it's difficult to answer your point. No, I guess the,

605
00:45:30,034 --> 00:45:34,194
um, that you're going to get denser building forms. It's

606
00:45:34,194 --> 00:45:38,091
the opportunity to have them more than anything. Right. So

607
00:45:39,232 --> 00:45:41,131
basically this infill could just be just a big house

608
00:45:42,112 --> 00:45:44,571
for a fact kind of thing. Sure. Sure. It could

609
00:45:44,571 --> 00:45:46,891
be a house that, you know, and really we're talking

610
00:45:46,912 --> 00:45:51,051
more, you know, length into the backyard, right? Um, you

611
00:45:51,051 --> 00:45:53,691
know, I do myself with in Stonebird not in a

612
00:45:53,691 --> 00:45:57,991
monster house. And I, I don't have issues, you know,

613
00:45:58,272 --> 00:46:05,710
and the sidewall calculation there. Okay. Thank you. Councillor McDonald.

614
00:46:07,265 --> 00:46:10,024
Thank you, Madam Mayor, and through to Ms. Burgess. You

615
00:46:10,065 --> 00:46:16,229
spoke about, um, Saskatoon being pretty restrictive. What is the

616
00:46:16,229 --> 00:46:22,069
extra kind of layer complication with infill, this particularly in

617
00:46:22,109 --> 00:46:27,232
established neighbourhoods that you're hearing from your builders. Sidewall, full

618
00:46:27,253 --> 00:46:30,992
stop. Sidewall continues to be one of the biggest barriers.

619
00:46:30,992 --> 00:46:35,152
Um, and, and leading to redesign a lot, um, there

620
00:46:35,192 --> 00:46:38,832
was many examples that I can provide you, uh, I'm

621
00:46:38,872 --> 00:46:42,192
not a builder myself, but I hear all the stories.

622
00:46:42,192 --> 00:46:44,672
You know, in one case, they had to remove literally

623
00:46:44,693 --> 00:46:47,632
a closet in order to make the design work because

624
00:46:47,632 --> 00:46:51,872
of the sidewall rules. So sidewall is one of those

625
00:46:51,973 --> 00:46:55,152
complexities. And I think we got to remember that infill

626
00:46:55,173 --> 00:46:59,312
in itself is highly complex. You know, there is sometimes

627
00:46:59,333 --> 00:47:01,552
you're dealing like you're dealing with city trees. There's very

628
00:47:01,573 --> 00:47:05,952
strict regulations around that. So you're navigating around that. You're

629
00:47:05,952 --> 00:47:10,332
navigating around the community that you're building within. You know,

630
00:47:10,332 --> 00:47:13,632
the complexity. And so, you know, we're adding another layer

631
00:47:13,672 --> 00:47:17,232
of complexity to something that's already challenging. And something we

632
00:47:17,333 --> 00:47:20,352
desperately need as a city. So really what we want

633
00:47:20,352 --> 00:47:23,552
to see is just, you know, that flexibility. And yes,

634
00:47:23,592 --> 00:47:29,852
that certainty, um, in order to encourage more growth, the

635
00:47:29,852 --> 00:47:37,822
city that we've already built. Thank you. Councillor Parker. Yeah.

636
00:47:38,323 --> 00:47:43,662
Uh, to Councillor McDonald, you gave her one example of

637
00:47:44,883 --> 00:47:50,062
what the sidewall calculation has caused as far as redesign.

638
00:47:50,062 --> 00:47:52,462
I guess I'm looking for kind of more practical examples

639
00:47:52,483 --> 00:47:56,582
of how that's impacted design. And I think kind of

640
00:47:56,582 --> 00:48:03,106
what I'm trying to get at is, um. How will

641
00:48:03,207 --> 00:48:07,183
the 10 percent increase in the sidewalk calculation. Changed those

642
00:48:07,183 --> 00:48:10,703
issues? So, um, to me, if you need an extra

643
00:48:11,044 --> 00:48:14,303
10 percent, why wouldn't you design to 90 percent and

644
00:48:14,303 --> 00:48:17,183
then use your 10 percent for flexibility rather than here's

645
00:48:17,223 --> 00:48:19,163
a hundred percent of what you used to have. And

646
00:48:19,163 --> 00:48:22,503
here's another 10 percent. So yeah, I'm just kind of

647
00:48:22,503 --> 00:48:27,583
looking for, for me, cause I was just looking at

648
00:48:27,623 --> 00:48:31,023
a picture, um, that kind of compared a home that

649
00:48:31,063 --> 00:48:33,983
was built a beautiful infill home. And it had kind

650
00:48:33,983 --> 00:48:37,483
of this, I need to show you the picture, but

651
00:48:37,483 --> 00:48:40,223
really it was kind of a square. It felt more

652
00:48:40,263 --> 00:48:42,223
like the neighbourhood. And they actually had to change it

653
00:48:42,484 --> 00:48:45,503
to like that style. Um, just to meet the sidewall

654
00:48:45,543 --> 00:48:48,363
calculation. Like it was just a tweak. It was, but

655
00:48:48,363 --> 00:48:51,023
it doesn't change anything about the overall size of the

656
00:48:51,023 --> 00:48:52,623
house. Do you know what I mean? It just created

657
00:48:52,724 --> 00:48:56,303
a design problem because of the calculation. Um, I do

658
00:48:56,343 --> 00:49:04,703
think that exemptions and considerations are going to be very

659
00:49:04,743 --> 00:49:09,103
helpful. I am in no way, um, ungrateful, uh, for,

660
00:49:09,103 --> 00:49:11,103
you know, the changes that are being made every little

661
00:49:11,143 --> 00:49:14,063
bit helps. I think where you're still going to encounter

662
00:49:14,244 --> 00:49:17,243
barriers is more when you're dealing with those, you know,

663
00:49:17,604 --> 00:49:19,903
say four units or three units. I think you're probably

664
00:49:19,903 --> 00:49:22,303
still going to butt up against a lot of challenges,

665
00:49:22,303 --> 00:49:29,743
even with the 10 percent increase. But yeah, that's, okay,

666
00:49:29,743 --> 00:49:33,663
has the home builders association advocated for exceptions specific to

667
00:49:34,164 --> 00:49:38,703
four or three unit structures rather than the primary dwellings?

668
00:49:38,724 --> 00:49:42,683
No, no. That's nothing that we've ever considered is, you

669
00:49:42,683 --> 00:49:45,743
know, having those, you know, kind of specific exemptions. I

670
00:49:45,743 --> 00:49:48,703
think sometimes when you start adding rules to rules, you

671
00:49:48,743 --> 00:49:52,523
can create a little bit more confusion and complexity. And

672
00:49:52,523 --> 00:49:55,383
really, I'm hoping that we're moving towards more simplicity. I

673
00:49:55,684 --> 00:49:58,543
look at Edmonton. I know that they recently did some

674
00:49:58,644 --> 00:50:03,063
changes where it pertains to their, their infill kind of

675
00:50:03,063 --> 00:50:06,383
regulations. And, um, at one point I was asked like,

676
00:50:06,804 --> 00:50:08,543
what cities doing it right? You know what I mean?

677
00:50:08,564 --> 00:50:10,543
Like we all kind of have our challenges. We all

678
00:50:10,543 --> 00:50:13,383
have our nuances. And I would say Edmonton, I would

679
00:50:13,383 --> 00:50:16,463
say Edmonton's, you know, they removed what they called their

680
00:50:16,724 --> 00:50:20,783
mature neighbourhood overlay, um, which was highly restrictive. And they

681
00:50:20,783 --> 00:50:24,703
did so in the name of creating more consistency and

682
00:50:25,204 --> 00:50:28,703
simplicity. And so sometimes I think the more rules you

683
00:50:28,724 --> 00:50:31,643
create are the more rules you have to manage. And

684
00:50:31,643 --> 00:50:35,104
the more rules that are open to say interpretation. So

685
00:50:35,125 --> 00:50:40,144
if you're looking for more simplicity, um, I think perhaps

686
00:50:40,405 --> 00:50:45,344
other than the planners in the room, uh, I would,

687
00:50:45,344 --> 00:50:49,472
I would say the sidewalk calculation is not simple. Um,

688
00:50:50,533 --> 00:50:55,712
so how does adding 10 percent that lean towards simplicity

689
00:50:55,893 --> 00:51:00,352
as far as it doesn't. However, it does give, like

690
00:51:00,352 --> 00:51:03,712
say, designers that much more kind of leeway, if you

691
00:51:03,712 --> 00:51:07,392
will. I think every little bit helps. And this is

692
00:51:07,573 --> 00:51:11,232
going to help. I think the door sill height, very

693
00:51:11,232 --> 00:51:14,192
important thing, especially when we got to consider, we need

694
00:51:14,192 --> 00:51:16,592
those units that are, you know, in order to accommodate

695
00:51:16,632 --> 00:51:19,792
basement suites, that dorsal height had to move, right? So

696
00:51:20,053 --> 00:51:22,592
I think they, they hit the nail on the head.

697
00:51:22,592 --> 00:51:24,352
You know, do you even need a number? They're probably

698
00:51:24,352 --> 00:51:26,752
not no one's going to build that way. But again,

699
00:51:26,773 --> 00:51:29,792
that's a very important adjustment that speaks to how we're

700
00:51:29,813 --> 00:51:33,072
building housing now for today. I think the very interesting

701
00:51:33,413 --> 00:51:35,392
looking house on 11th that would tell you that people

702
00:51:35,493 --> 00:51:38,752
will build that way. Um, but I appreciate that. Thank

703
00:51:38,752 --> 00:51:42,295
you very much. I'll just add just a couple of

704
00:51:42,295 --> 00:51:49,575
quick questions on understanding sidewall and the cell height. We

705
00:51:49,575 --> 00:51:53,055
talked a lot about these massive houses and how that

706
00:51:53,236 --> 00:51:59,455
these bilade changes that are recommended could accelerate very, very

707
00:51:59,495 --> 00:52:02,975
large homes that ruin people's views and all of that.

708
00:52:02,975 --> 00:52:08,255
And that's always been a challenge with infeliz that I'm

709
00:52:08,356 --> 00:52:12,255
noticing in info neighbourhoods are those, uh, lots of been

710
00:52:12,295 --> 00:52:15,375
subdivided and trying to figure out how to fit a

711
00:52:15,415 --> 00:52:17,855
home on them and how do you even have a

712
00:52:18,276 --> 00:52:22,075
home if you don't have a bit of sidewall. And

713
00:52:22,075 --> 00:52:23,935
can you just speak to that? Because this is relatively

714
00:52:23,956 --> 00:52:28,335
new that we have these very narrow homes on those,

715
00:52:28,335 --> 00:52:31,293
say 50 or 60 foot lots. Yeah. No, I think

716
00:52:31,333 --> 00:52:33,933
that's a very good point. Um, and I think it's

717
00:52:34,034 --> 00:52:37,533
those narrow lots that really kind of are more challenged

718
00:52:38,114 --> 00:52:41,053
by these sidewall calculations, right? In terms of the actual

719
00:52:41,314 --> 00:52:44,173
home that you're able to put on them. Um, so

720
00:52:44,514 --> 00:52:47,453
I think that that's a very important consideration because we

721
00:52:47,474 --> 00:52:50,493
are seeing that. I know it's equally challenging in Greenfield

722
00:52:50,514 --> 00:52:53,213
Development, right? Where we're seeing smaller and smaller lots, right?

723
00:52:53,213 --> 00:52:56,733
So there is challenges to that. But fortunately in Greenfield,

724
00:52:56,733 --> 00:52:59,773
you don't, you don't have the sidewall calculation. You're still

725
00:52:59,813 --> 00:53:03,933
dictated on size by those basic rules of height and

726
00:53:03,973 --> 00:53:07,853
setback and percent site coverage. And, you know, have the

727
00:53:07,853 --> 00:53:11,513
opportunity to ask others hopefully, but I, uh, just, can

728
00:53:11,513 --> 00:53:13,213
you speak to that? Cause if that's the way that

729
00:53:13,234 --> 00:53:19,513
we provide rules around development outside of the infill, uh,

730
00:53:20,674 --> 00:53:23,373
is fair to say that this is character preservation and

731
00:53:23,373 --> 00:53:26,953
trying to keep things the same, uh, how do you

732
00:53:26,953 --> 00:53:30,013
understand how these rules are being applied? This is probably

733
00:53:30,194 --> 00:53:32,493
a better question for administration, but I'm just curious to

734
00:53:32,493 --> 00:53:35,983
review. Like in terms of the comparison to Greenfield or

735
00:53:36,164 --> 00:53:38,063
newer device? Right. You said in Greenfield, you don't have

736
00:53:38,063 --> 00:53:43,349
the same restrictions. And neighbours still, I guess that's where

737
00:53:43,530 --> 00:53:46,949
I'm personally challenged, right? Um, you know, like I said,

738
00:53:46,949 --> 00:53:49,589
I live in Stonebridge and I can tell you for

739
00:53:49,610 --> 00:53:52,789
certain, you know, if I look down my street very

740
00:53:52,829 --> 00:53:56,709
regular street, no one's maximizing that building envelope. You got

741
00:53:56,730 --> 00:53:59,669
bungalows, you got two stories. You got a diversity of

742
00:53:59,770 --> 00:54:03,969
housing that kind of goes into these, these neighbourhoods. You

743
00:54:03,969 --> 00:54:05,889
know, you have the backyard that you have, you know,

744
00:54:06,010 --> 00:54:08,549
based on however the length of your house, because you're

745
00:54:08,589 --> 00:54:12,149
not as limited by the sidewalk calculation. Um, and you

746
00:54:12,149 --> 00:54:14,529
still have to follow the same rules of, you know,

747
00:54:14,890 --> 00:54:17,029
no more than say 40 percent. So it will dictate

748
00:54:17,210 --> 00:54:20,149
the size of the home. So, you know, I struggle

749
00:54:20,149 --> 00:54:23,029
with that because I think of, you know, I couldn't

750
00:54:23,029 --> 00:54:25,269
take, you know, just, you know, say I had a

751
00:54:25,290 --> 00:54:28,389
maximized hosts, like I couldn't take that and put an

752
00:54:28,429 --> 00:54:31,569
info because info still has regulations on height, you know,

753
00:54:31,569 --> 00:54:34,369
to keep kind of that character, if you will, um,

754
00:54:34,570 --> 00:54:40,151
to the existing neighbourhoods. Okay. I think, um, most of

755
00:54:40,151 --> 00:54:42,131
my other questions are probably better left to administration, but

756
00:54:42,131 --> 00:54:46,727
thank you. And oh, online, we're going to go now

757
00:54:46,767 --> 00:54:50,899
to Councillor Donau. Thank you, worship, Ms. Burgess. Thank you

758
00:54:50,899 --> 00:54:54,439
for your comments tonight. I just want to clarify a

759
00:54:54,439 --> 00:54:58,274
few things. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Great.

760
00:54:58,314 --> 00:55:04,834
Okay. The report indicates that the home builders is advocating

761
00:55:04,874 --> 00:55:08,514
for the complete removal of infill provisions. And that was

762
00:55:08,535 --> 00:55:11,874
said again tonight. I just want to clarify, is that

763
00:55:11,914 --> 00:55:15,285
what you're asking for. Um, I'm asking for approval of

764
00:55:15,285 --> 00:55:17,365
the package that's on the table. I think it's an

765
00:55:17,546 --> 00:55:21,845
important step forward. And further to that, I am asking,

766
00:55:21,845 --> 00:55:26,725
hopefully, uh, that Council will direct administration to further pursue

767
00:55:26,826 --> 00:55:31,502
consideration of removal of the sidewall. Yeah. But you understand

768
00:55:33,203 --> 00:55:36,782
and don't necessarily disagree to infel the guidelines as long

769
00:55:36,782 --> 00:55:41,484
as they're simple and reasonable or okay. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

770
00:55:42,065 --> 00:55:45,644
Um, how do other cities manage massing if they don't

771
00:55:45,644 --> 00:55:50,044
use this calculation? Um, there's, there's a diversity of ways.

772
00:55:50,044 --> 00:55:52,284
Um, that this can be be handled. I don't know

773
00:55:52,324 --> 00:55:57,964
that there's any as complex as our particular sidewall rule.

774
00:55:57,964 --> 00:56:00,844
Um, I believe that there's something called a floor area

775
00:56:01,105 --> 00:56:06,604
ratio that Regina. And who else does it? I forget

776
00:56:06,785 --> 00:56:09,964
Rejoin in another one uses. So again, that's more calculating

777
00:56:10,305 --> 00:56:12,524
that I believe the maximum kind of square footage of

778
00:56:12,545 --> 00:56:15,964
sorts. So it's still kind of controlling size. Um, I

779
00:56:16,004 --> 00:56:18,844
don't know that that's a better solution. Um, I believe

780
00:56:19,185 --> 00:56:23,004
Calgary does a stepped height or angular plane control, which

781
00:56:23,004 --> 00:56:26,284
again is considering similar to how administration was talking about

782
00:56:26,545 --> 00:56:29,644
the further they're out from the neighbouring property, the less

783
00:56:29,684 --> 00:56:32,684
potential impact there is to that neighbour. Right. So it's

784
00:56:32,724 --> 00:56:35,884
kind of more of consideration of that. But there's also,

785
00:56:35,884 --> 00:56:38,844
you know, I've talked to others like designers that work

786
00:56:38,865 --> 00:56:42,844
in municipalities that, you know, in order to create, because

787
00:56:42,844 --> 00:56:46,044
it's really about the visual, right? The massing and just

788
00:56:46,044 --> 00:56:48,764
like, you know, imagining a blank wall. But by using

789
00:56:49,025 --> 00:56:53,724
different materials, um, articulations, you can actually really break up

790
00:56:53,764 --> 00:56:57,684
that massing so it's not so, you know, abrupt, if

791
00:56:57,684 --> 00:57:00,364
you will. Um, so, so there's different ways that you

792
00:57:00,364 --> 00:57:02,284
can tackle it. I don't know that I have the

793
00:57:02,324 --> 00:57:05,964
perfect solution. And, you know, if Saskatoon, you know, still

794
00:57:05,964 --> 00:57:10,204
wants to retain some level of control, um, over mousing,

795
00:57:10,204 --> 00:57:11,724
there is probably a multitude of things that can be

796
00:57:11,764 --> 00:57:14,684
looked at that would make it more simple and certain

797
00:57:16,305 --> 00:57:20,893
and better encourage infill to happen. Thank you. Thank you,

798
00:57:20,933 --> 00:57:25,011
worship. Okay. I don't see any more lights on for

799
00:57:25,011 --> 00:57:28,851
questions. Thank you. Uh, next we have Odell Genoway.

800
00:57:42,803 --> 00:57:46,782
Good evening, worship mayor and councillors. I'm Rodelle Genoway, CEO

801
00:57:46,782 --> 00:57:50,702
of Hometown Homes. Um, a home builder here in Saskatoon.

802
00:57:51,043 --> 00:57:54,542
We've designed and built, um, eleven homes in the Varsity

803
00:57:54,582 --> 00:57:57,422
view in Newtown neighbourhood and also do acreages in other

804
00:57:57,462 --> 00:58:02,222
areas. But today I'm speaking on behalf of, um, some

805
00:58:02,262 --> 00:58:05,982
of our challenges with infill development. And speaking on behalf

806
00:58:05,982 --> 00:58:08,622
of Saskatoon and Region home builders association where I serve

807
00:58:08,622 --> 00:58:12,302
on the board. So firstly one thing of how our

808
00:58:12,342 --> 00:58:16,382
company works is we're design build. So I don't put

809
00:58:16,422 --> 00:58:21,022
my personal taste on our homes. We design any style.

810
00:58:21,022 --> 00:58:23,902
We design what our clients ask for. Obviously with our

811
00:58:23,923 --> 00:58:28,382
guidance. So when I speak about rules or having to

812
00:58:28,422 --> 00:58:31,262
take something off a drawing, it's not impacting me personally.

813
00:58:31,262 --> 00:58:35,422
It's impacting our clients who are paying for it at

814
00:58:35,422 --> 00:58:37,734
the end of the day. So I have a real

815
00:58:38,235 --> 00:58:40,694
example we have in our design phase right now that

816
00:58:40,734 --> 00:58:43,734
I think will be helpful to share. Um, it's being

817
00:58:43,774 --> 00:58:46,694
designed for a lot that our clients own in Varsity

818
00:58:46,715 --> 00:58:51,255
view. Um, they're a retired couple. They're in their 60s.

819
00:58:51,255 --> 00:58:54,135
This is the last house that they'll be building. Their

820
00:58:54,135 --> 00:58:57,255
style is traditional craftsman. And their goal is for this

821
00:58:57,276 --> 00:59:00,235
home to look like it's always been there. So the

822
00:59:00,275 --> 00:59:03,575
front of the house has, I have some photos, but

823
00:59:03,575 --> 00:59:05,415
it's not going to help from this far away, but

824
00:59:05,456 --> 00:59:08,315
the front of the house, um, has a really steep

825
00:59:08,416 --> 00:59:10,875
gable. So a gavel is like a triangle. Like how

826
00:59:10,875 --> 00:59:13,835
a kid draws a house. And rather than the whole

827
00:59:13,875 --> 00:59:17,995
house just looking like one big triangle. The gable is

828
00:59:17,995 --> 00:59:19,835
just a little feature on the right side of the

829
00:59:19,875 --> 00:59:22,875
house. So in order to give it that curb appeal,

830
00:59:22,875 --> 00:59:26,075
we need another roof line on the left, which requires

831
00:59:26,176 --> 00:59:28,955
a gable on the sidewall on the side of the

832
00:59:28,995 --> 00:59:32,075
house. So now that's the rule that creates the problem.

833
00:59:33,134 --> 00:59:36,953
The city gives every house a sidewall budget, if you

834
00:59:36,953 --> 00:59:39,753
will, in the bylaw. That's what the sidewall area is.

835
00:59:40,756 --> 00:59:43,575
So it only covers two sides of the house. It

836
00:59:43,575 --> 00:59:47,926
doesn't matter about the front or the back. So you

837
00:59:47,966 --> 00:59:50,086
measure from the ground up to the highest point of

838
00:59:50,086 --> 00:59:53,026
the roof. It has to fit within that budget. But

839
00:59:53,026 --> 00:59:55,366
when you have a gable on the side, that triangle

840
00:59:56,187 --> 00:59:59,985
counts towards that budget. So in this case, that gable

841
01:00:00,025 --> 01:00:03,185
on the side spent a chunk of their sidewall area

842
01:00:03,206 --> 01:00:07,335
budget and they went over. So a typical fix for

843
01:00:07,375 --> 01:00:13,255
that would be make the house shorter or push the

844
01:00:13,436 --> 01:00:16,055
whole house into the ground. So first we tried pushing

845
01:00:16,095 --> 01:00:19,495
the house into the ground. But on this street specifically

846
01:00:19,756 --> 01:00:23,760
the sewer depth is quite shallow. So we were, we

847
01:00:23,781 --> 01:00:28,080
were hitting the, hitting the sewer line, um, we had

848
01:00:28,181 --> 01:00:31,040
the lot surveyed. We had our sewer contractor involved and

849
01:00:31,061 --> 01:00:34,640
they confirmed the number, the footing counset, lower than 501.

850
01:00:34,661 --> 01:00:38,400
85. We were one inch below that. So that meant

851
01:00:38,421 --> 01:00:41,040
the plumbing would be running uphill. And it ain't going

852
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,160
to work if that's the case. So we couldn't push

853
01:00:44,181 --> 01:00:47,880
the house down, which left making the house shorter. So

854
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,920
we took 12 inches out of the second floor ceiling.

855
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:53,360
So it went from a nine foot ceiling to an

856
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,400
eight foot ceiling. So that spends less budget for that

857
01:00:56,421 --> 01:00:59,726
sidewall area. And it led us lift the house back

858
01:00:59,747 --> 01:01:03,097
up away from the sewer. But this is where it

859
01:01:03,097 --> 01:01:06,697
gets tricky because the wall budget passes, but the sewer

860
01:01:06,718 --> 01:01:10,857
doesn't. It's still too shallow. And the house needed to

861
01:01:10,857 --> 01:01:14,278
come up four inches more. So two ways to find

862
01:01:14,459 --> 01:01:16,998
four more inches is either take another foot out of

863
01:01:16,998 --> 01:01:20,438
the ceiling height, which was the basement was our next

864
01:01:20,459 --> 01:01:24,277
plan. I'd imagine nobody building a brand new house wants

865
01:01:24,277 --> 01:01:26,757
to have an eight foot basement instead of a nine

866
01:01:26,778 --> 01:01:29,957
foot basement. So that was the trap. The sewer says

867
01:01:30,698 --> 01:01:34,977
lift the house. The front door rule says don't. The

868
01:01:35,018 --> 01:01:40,003
wall budget says don't. But our clients gave up 12

869
01:01:40,003 --> 01:01:43,603
inches of sealing upstairs. Their basement is next. And it's

870
01:01:43,864 --> 01:01:46,643
all ultimately because of the style of roof that's on

871
01:01:46,643 --> 01:01:49,203
this house. If it was a flat roof style house,

872
01:01:49,243 --> 01:01:53,203
this would all be working perfectly. Um, what gets me

873
01:01:53,243 --> 01:01:56,723
is that this house already passed on height on lot

874
01:01:56,763 --> 01:01:59,603
coverage on how far the wall sits from the property

875
01:01:59,643 --> 01:02:02,927
line. Those are all factored in how big this house

876
01:02:02,927 --> 01:02:05,487
can actually be. But it's ultimately the roof that we

877
01:02:05,508 --> 01:02:08,527
want to put on this house that will fit the

878
01:02:08,527 --> 01:02:12,287
most in the neighbourhood is the issue that we're having.

879
01:02:15,209 --> 01:02:17,908
So in the end, taking that gable off, the neighbour

880
01:02:17,929 --> 01:02:21,588
doesn't get less house. They just get a flatter blank

881
01:02:21,689 --> 01:02:24,948
or wall, um, which nobody wants to look at either.

882
01:02:24,948 --> 01:02:29,268
So our ultimate ask, um, from my company hometown homes

883
01:02:29,769 --> 01:02:32,388
and on behalf of the Saskatoon Region home builders association

884
01:02:32,489 --> 01:02:35,188
is to approve package two. And at the end of

885
01:02:35,188 --> 01:02:39,028
the day, nothing changes on ultimate massing. The height restrictions

886
01:02:39,049 --> 01:02:46,602
are there. The setbacks are there. Thank you. Are there

887
01:02:46,642 --> 01:02:53,933
questions for the speaker? I'm not seeing any, but I

888
01:02:53,954 --> 01:02:58,514
have one. If these are passed, how would that impact

889
01:02:58,775 --> 01:03:02,894
the project you just described. The roof line would get

890
01:03:02,894 --> 01:03:05,374
to stay with its little peak on the front and

891
01:03:05,395 --> 01:03:07,774
a nice, um, I don't know what you would call

892
01:03:07,814 --> 01:03:11,294
a gable from the side. Ultimately it's going to have

893
01:03:11,294 --> 01:03:15,150
the curb appeal that the neighbourhood wants. And so it

894
01:03:15,190 --> 01:03:17,790
would actually fit with some of the change, some of

895
01:03:17,790 --> 01:03:19,390
those changes that you had mentioned would still need to

896
01:03:19,430 --> 01:03:23,950
happen. Yeah. But the roof design could stay. And with

897
01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:26,510
the dorsal height, all we need is an extra four

898
01:03:26,550 --> 01:03:29,230
inches. So just because this passes and we can have

899
01:03:29,331 --> 01:03:31,230
12 inches, we're not going to take it. It would

900
01:03:31,270 --> 01:03:33,470
make this house look weird. It's just that four inches

901
01:03:33,510 --> 01:03:35,928
that we need. To bring it up and pass that

902
01:03:36,029 --> 01:03:39,910
sewer. I don't want to get in the weeds on

903
01:03:39,950 --> 01:03:42,470
one project, but I'd probably raise the ceiling, but that's

904
01:03:42,510 --> 01:03:46,070
me. Anyways, thank you. Uh, I appreciate that. Uh, I

905
01:03:46,070 --> 01:03:47,990
don't see their lights on for questions. So thank you.

906
01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:54,674
We're going to move on now to Sherry Tarasoff. Hello.

907
01:03:57,789 --> 01:04:02,123
Hello, Ms. Tarastoff. We can hear you. Hey, I have

908
01:04:02,224 --> 01:04:06,603
a presentation that I'm hoping the clerk can display while

909
01:04:06,704 --> 01:04:15,498
I'm presenting. We can see your presentation. Okay. Thank you.

910
01:04:16,675 --> 01:04:19,854
Your worship and city councillors. My name is Sherry Tarasov.

911
01:04:19,854 --> 01:04:24,009
Thank you for this opportunity to speak. Existing infill regulations

912
01:04:24,270 --> 01:04:29,533
are working. The amendments before you are not necessary. Next

913
01:04:29,573 --> 01:04:32,876
slide, please. There are many items to consider on this

914
01:04:32,876 --> 01:04:36,678
agenda. Let's go through each of them. Next slide, please.

915
01:04:38,296 --> 01:04:43,391
City Council still waiting for report back. In 2022, City

916
01:04:43,492 --> 01:04:46,991
Council directed administration to track the impact of still height

917
01:04:47,031 --> 01:04:51,080
restriction over a year's time. No detail is provided on

918
01:04:51,101 --> 01:04:53,160
the time frame that was tracked and with the data

919
01:04:53,341 --> 01:04:57,114
revealed. The infill review project did not address this information

920
01:04:57,375 --> 01:05:02,694
before making recommendations. So his Council Direction now become optional.

921
01:05:05,285 --> 01:05:09,786
Next slide, please. A return to larger dwelling units. These

922
01:05:10,047 --> 01:05:15,111
proposed amendments will not address housing affordability. In fill targets

923
01:05:15,612 --> 01:05:20,435
growth objectives or supply challenges. They will, however, allow for

924
01:05:20,456 --> 01:05:24,794
larger dwelling units. Why should massive infill buildings be allowed

925
01:05:24,794 --> 01:05:31,558
to be built again? Next slide, please. Half initiative already

926
01:05:31,659 --> 01:05:36,382
complete. Admin highlights that these amendments form part of the

927
01:05:36,382 --> 01:05:41,360
housing action plan. In May, admin also reported that approval

928
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,960
of the Zoning Bylaw Amendment for Development on Corner Lots

929
01:05:45,221 --> 01:05:49,200
in the transit development area corresponded to the final milestone

930
01:05:49,621 --> 01:05:53,810
and initiative three. It appears that this milestone has already

931
01:05:53,831 --> 01:06:02,128
been completed. Next slide, please. Engagement favored industry reps. In

932
01:06:02,128 --> 01:06:07,228
2022, when amendments to infill regulations were last considered, and

933
01:06:07,228 --> 01:06:12,528
eight page engagement summary, detailed the workshops, meetings, surveys, and

934
01:06:12,568 --> 01:06:17,969
presentations that were undertaken. This time engagement was primarily one

935
01:06:18,009 --> 01:06:23,249
way. The exception being directed men engagement with industry reps.

936
01:06:23,249 --> 01:06:27,857
And the Saskatooning region home builders association. Why wasn't a

937
01:06:27,857 --> 01:06:32,582
focus group convened again. The mixed panel that the consultants

938
01:06:32,683 --> 01:06:37,252
formed only involved three Community members. And their report even

939
01:06:37,292 --> 01:06:40,692
stated further engagement will be required before any of the

940
01:06:40,793 --> 01:06:49,096
recommended amendments proceed for Council's consideration. Next slide, please. Don't

941
01:06:49,136 --> 01:06:55,167
fix what isn't broken. New primary dwellings in established neighbourhoods,

942
01:06:55,167 --> 01:06:58,927
Lake Mutana, continue to be built under the infill regulations

943
01:06:59,268 --> 01:07:03,555
that were implemented in 2015. Pictured is the 800 block

944
01:07:03,595 --> 01:07:09,655
of university drive with three new builds. Next slide, please.

945
01:07:10,619 --> 01:07:14,198
As provided by administration, the number of building permits for

946
01:07:14,379 --> 01:07:19,078
one unit dwellings and established neighbourhoods continues to increase since

947
01:07:19,099 --> 01:07:23,995
the infill regulations were adopted. Rising from 61 in 2014

948
01:07:24,736 --> 01:07:30,278
to 148 last year. Why amend regulations that are already

949
01:07:30,459 --> 01:07:38,011
working. Next slide, please. Appeals to push the boundaries. Few

950
01:07:38,112 --> 01:07:41,451
appeals have been heard by the development appeals board regarding

951
01:07:41,632 --> 01:07:46,331
sidewall deficiencies. All of these appeals were for massive single

952
01:07:46,592 --> 01:07:54,994
family homes, not affordable homes. Next slide, please. Uh. In

953
01:07:55,015 --> 01:07:58,754
summary in field regulations are in place to ensure new

954
01:07:59,015 --> 01:08:02,114
infill development does not detract from the character of the

955
01:08:02,154 --> 01:08:06,407
neighbourhood. And to balance demand for contemporary housing with the

956
01:08:06,508 --> 01:08:12,038
existing built form. The existing infill regulations are working as

957
01:08:12,038 --> 01:08:15,078
demonstrated by the growing number of building permits for primary

958
01:08:15,179 --> 01:08:19,547
dwellings and established neighbourhoods. The amendments before you are not

959
01:08:19,728 --> 01:08:24,327
necessary and are aimed to benefit massive infill housing, not

960
01:08:24,327 --> 01:08:29,052
affordable housing. And one final note. Comments have been made

961
01:08:29,092 --> 01:08:33,212
about the multi - unit dwellings or MUDs. And I

962
01:08:33,212 --> 01:08:36,892
believe the Byla already has an exemption for MUD's in

963
01:08:36,892 --> 01:08:41,532
certain areas regarding sidewall calculation. So perhaps admin to address

964
01:08:41,793 --> 01:08:46,096
that more clearly. Thank you for your time. Thank you,

965
01:08:46,136 --> 01:08:54,703
Mr. Tarasoff. Are there questions for the speaker. McDonald. Thank

966
01:08:54,703 --> 01:08:56,783
you Madam Mayor through you. Um, thank you for your

967
01:08:56,804 --> 01:08:59,823
presentation, Ms. Tarasoff. I was just wondering if you could

968
01:08:59,924 --> 01:09:02,703
clarify one of your statements or actually just maybe provide

969
01:09:02,743 --> 01:09:04,623
the background for me. I think I'm just missing it

970
01:09:05,044 --> 01:09:10,303
on slide four. You said we don't need to build

971
01:09:10,884 --> 01:09:14,063
large or infill doesn't need to have large hoses built

972
01:09:14,084 --> 01:09:18,694
again. Yes. Can you just give me the ground on

973
01:09:18,694 --> 01:09:24,882
that one. I'm just before the infill regulations came about

974
01:09:25,063 --> 01:09:29,671
in 2015. There was a lot of. Frustration with the

975
01:09:29,671 --> 01:09:33,831
size of buildings being built. And the infill regulations for

976
01:09:33,852 --> 01:09:38,821
sidewall seemed to temper that. And now we're kind of

977
01:09:38,882 --> 01:09:41,904
easing that. So we're going to increase them. Which perhaps

978
01:09:42,165 --> 01:09:46,730
is going to make things difficult again. No, thank you.

979
01:09:46,770 --> 01:09:52,022
Uh, very much for that clarification. Not seeing any of

980
01:09:52,022 --> 01:09:55,062
the lights on. Thank you, Mr. We'll go now to

981
01:09:55,803 --> 01:10:05,731
Carrie Tarasoff. Sherry Tarasoff is now exiting. I have

982
01:10:05,771 --> 01:10:10,161
a presentation. Thank you. Thank you worship. My name is

983
01:10:10,161 --> 01:10:15,081
Kerry Tarasoff and Council. I appreciate this opportunity. First slide

984
01:10:15,102 --> 01:10:17,641
that I'm showing you today is our rework of the

985
01:10:17,662 --> 01:10:21,700
city's own slide. And, uh, the yellow square at the

986
01:10:21,700 --> 01:10:25,240
top was the existing number for that size of lot.

987
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:28,898
The green would be what the city's proposing. Minus the

988
01:10:29,079 --> 01:10:33,089
4. 5 metre setback. Once you take that 4. 5

989
01:10:33,270 --> 01:10:38,289
metre setback, which is being deemed as not significant when

990
01:10:38,289 --> 01:10:41,069
it's very significant. When you get to the bottom, you

991
01:10:41,069 --> 01:10:43,889
see that big red rectangle. That's actually the size of

992
01:10:43,929 --> 01:10:46,521
building you can build. And I've got 39 years behind

993
01:10:46,622 --> 01:10:49,401
me. So I think I'm fairly close. So someone can

994
01:10:49,401 --> 01:10:51,961
call me out on it if they wish. Next slide,

995
01:10:51,961 --> 01:10:57,273
please. This is the larger lot size again. So the

996
01:10:57,374 --> 01:11:01,992
city wants to increase by 10 percent. What the real

997
01:11:02,013 --> 01:11:07,032
damaging application is for this, uh, 4. 5 metre setback.

998
01:11:07,712 --> 01:11:14,091
Next slide, please. So here is under the current regulations.

999
01:11:14,091 --> 01:11:17,409
A front view that is in an established area. And

1000
01:11:17,510 --> 01:11:20,049
it shows the footprint and the plan view. So you

1001
01:11:20,049 --> 01:11:23,169
could still have a detached scratch, but it wouldn't be

1002
01:11:24,150 --> 01:11:28,929
attached. There'd be a break between the structures. And next

1003
01:11:28,969 --> 01:11:33,114
slide. So this is an isometric view to give you

1004
01:11:33,114 --> 01:11:36,525
an idea of the scale of a building. And this

1005
01:11:36,525 --> 01:11:41,857
is to scale. Next slide. So here is what will

1006
01:11:41,878 --> 01:11:45,057
be proposed if the city goes ahead tonight and you

1007
01:11:45,097 --> 01:11:48,537
vote this serum. The front view looks the same. I

1008
01:11:48,537 --> 01:11:50,877
agree. But if you look at the plan view, you

1009
01:11:50,877 --> 01:11:55,370
see this building got exceptionally long. And there's great implication

1010
01:11:55,410 --> 01:11:59,356
for that. Next slide, please. So here's what a side

1011
01:11:59,396 --> 01:12:01,836
view from the street looks like in a side view

1012
01:12:01,876 --> 01:12:06,435
from the neighbour. And you'll say, well, but they're going

1013
01:12:06,435 --> 01:12:08,275
to try to make it look better. We don't have

1014
01:12:08,376 --> 01:12:12,115
our architectural controls. This is the envelope that someone can

1015
01:12:12,155 --> 01:12:14,915
build within. And when somebody has an envelope, they will

1016
01:12:14,915 --> 01:12:19,246
take advantage of it. Next slide, please. So here's a

1017
01:12:19,427 --> 01:12:23,188
niceometric of what that looks like. And when you see

1018
01:12:23,209 --> 01:12:26,708
those four garage doors, that is the scale of a

1019
01:12:26,748 --> 01:12:31,607
building. We're talking about. It's massive. And this is a

1020
01:12:31,788 --> 01:12:34,407
40 percent lock cover for the building, an extra 10

1021
01:12:34,428 --> 01:12:38,294
percent added for the deck. And I've only used a

1022
01:12:38,395 --> 01:12:43,094
22 foot high wall, which is set up, uh, 0.

1023
01:12:43,094 --> 01:12:47,093
75 metres from the property line. So I believe there's

1024
01:12:47,093 --> 01:12:48,513
actually even room for me to get a little bit

1025
01:12:48,513 --> 01:12:50,933
bigger on some things, but I won't get into it.

1026
01:12:50,933 --> 01:12:53,413
This is more than enough to prove the point, isn't

1027
01:12:53,413 --> 01:12:58,777
it? So what we're really talking about is affordable versus

1028
01:12:58,958 --> 01:13:02,411
affluent. And really, the big push for all of this,

1029
01:13:02,411 --> 01:13:06,731
especially the 4. 5 emission and stuff is affluence, because

1030
01:13:06,731 --> 01:13:10,491
it makes, instead of having these exteriors separated garages, they

1031
01:13:10,512 --> 01:13:13,131
can all just be one big large structure. What would

1032
01:13:13,131 --> 01:13:17,488
be the harm in that. But let's talk fire protection.

1033
01:13:17,488 --> 01:13:19,568
I live in Westview and we had a massive fire

1034
01:13:19,589 --> 01:13:22,208
this year. I went and looked at that structure and

1035
01:13:22,709 --> 01:13:24,608
the cleanup crews that were working on it told me

1036
01:13:24,789 --> 01:13:29,244
that 22 structures were affected. And across the street from

1037
01:13:29,244 --> 01:13:33,384
where the fires took place is 24 metres away. And

1038
01:13:33,384 --> 01:13:36,764
they're siding is melting off their houses. So the problem

1039
01:13:36,785 --> 01:13:39,324
that we have is firefighters have a real problem fighting

1040
01:13:39,364 --> 01:13:42,124
these huge fires. And we're just going to double the

1041
01:13:42,145 --> 01:13:45,324
size. In fact, this is 110 percent increase of wall

1042
01:13:45,364 --> 01:13:50,313
area. And we were not considering the fire implications of

1043
01:13:50,353 --> 01:13:53,433
this. And we're putting firefighters lives at risk to try

1044
01:13:53,473 --> 01:13:56,633
to fight even more and more unreasonable fires. And we're

1045
01:13:56,673 --> 01:14:00,121
not putting any fire protection into the wall construction. So

1046
01:14:00,142 --> 01:14:02,281
if you were going to increase the wall construction and

1047
01:14:02,321 --> 01:14:04,901
say, well, we'll put extra fire rating in there, but

1048
01:14:04,901 --> 01:14:07,001
we're not doing that, are we? Because we wouldn't want

1049
01:14:07,022 --> 01:14:12,199
to add cost. So let me ask you a question

1050
01:14:12,239 --> 01:14:15,319
here. Um, if we're going to care about the people

1051
01:14:15,740 --> 01:14:18,679
that sleep in these homes at night and we're going

1052
01:14:18,679 --> 01:14:22,679
to care about the firefighters and we're already showing how

1053
01:14:22,679 --> 01:14:25,959
many infills, in fact, Ms. Genoway, they build a beautiful

1054
01:14:26,140 --> 01:14:28,959
house by the way. And they've done 11 infills. So

1055
01:14:28,959 --> 01:14:34,047
obviously they've been able to work within regulations. So do

1056
01:14:34,047 --> 01:14:36,489
we really need to make a big change. There might

1057
01:14:36,529 --> 01:14:39,758
be some small changes that are needed. But this 4.

1058
01:14:39,779 --> 01:14:44,125
5 metres is devastating change. And it was not even

1059
01:14:44,306 --> 01:14:48,931
properly presented by administration for you to consider tonight. So

1060
01:14:49,912 --> 01:14:52,451
one thing you need to realise as well is Edmonton

1061
01:14:52,472 --> 01:14:55,091
is doubling back right now is just passed in Council

1062
01:14:55,112 --> 01:14:56,611
and they will be going back to look at the

1063
01:14:56,792 --> 01:15:01,891
implications of infill. Because as they quoted Edmonton, Epton's having

1064
01:15:01,912 --> 01:15:05,250
a devastating effect for infill right now. And I don't

1065
01:15:05,271 --> 01:15:11,501
want us to go the same place. Any questions. Opening

1066
01:15:11,541 --> 01:15:16,133
the floor for questions. I'm not seeing any at this

1067
01:15:16,133 --> 01:15:20,867
time. But thank you. Next we have Peggy Sargent.

1068
01:15:34,125 --> 01:15:37,967
Good evening. Thank you for your time. My name is

1069
01:15:38,068 --> 01:15:42,927
Peggy Sargent. And I'm speaking here as a resident of

1070
01:15:43,268 --> 01:15:48,742
a neighbourhood which is under considerable development pressure. I'm concerned

1071
01:15:48,763 --> 01:15:54,022
about the possible relaxation of regulations regarding the sidewall area

1072
01:15:54,043 --> 01:16:00,093
of infill development. And the subsequent impact on adjacent residences.

1073
01:16:01,492 --> 01:16:05,141
This is a complicated issue. Which is difficult for the

1074
01:16:05,562 --> 01:16:10,167
lay person to understand without professional help. Certainly it is

1075
01:16:10,207 --> 01:16:15,737
for me. However, residents able to register an opinion about

1076
01:16:15,838 --> 01:16:20,377
the proposed bylaw when they are unable to determine the

1077
01:16:20,377 --> 01:16:24,697
impact of an infill on their adjacent property. Would an

1078
01:16:24,697 --> 01:16:27,977
increase of 10 percent inside wall area affect the light

1079
01:16:28,718 --> 01:16:34,188
into a dwelling through additional shading. Would an exemption for

1080
01:16:34,228 --> 01:16:38,428
the sidewall area of a development 4. 5 metres from

1081
01:16:38,449 --> 01:16:42,828
the side property line increase the ability of the new

1082
01:16:43,089 --> 01:16:48,108
infill to overlook its neighbor's property. I'm actually really concerned

1083
01:16:48,148 --> 01:16:53,693
about that 4. 5 exemption. I just don't know. What

1084
01:16:53,794 --> 01:16:58,455
this would actually look like. Over the years, the city

1085
01:16:58,476 --> 01:17:03,335
has recognised the community's desire for infill of regulations to

1086
01:17:03,375 --> 01:17:09,607
mitigate impacts on adjacent property. They also understand and have

1087
01:17:09,607 --> 01:17:15,447
stated that removal of regulations can often result in large

1088
01:17:15,447 --> 01:17:20,654
dwellings. Not more housing. And I can certainly attest to

1089
01:17:20,654 --> 01:17:26,072
that. With regard to the proposed new zoning by law,

1090
01:17:26,072 --> 01:17:29,192
however, I feel there has been little engagements with the

1091
01:17:29,192 --> 01:17:35,151
public to explain the new proposals. The city has had

1092
01:17:35,332 --> 01:17:41,311
multiple conversations with the development community, but residents, the people

1093
01:17:41,732 --> 01:17:44,911
most affected by a new adjacent development of barely mentioned.

1094
01:17:46,178 --> 01:17:49,837
I don't consider providing some information on the City's website

1095
01:17:50,178 --> 01:17:54,557
and asking the reader to contact the planning department adequate

1096
01:17:54,578 --> 01:18:00,651
engagement. It assumes that residents are following City Development Activities

1097
01:18:00,752 --> 01:18:04,811
Online, leaving many members of the public out in the

1098
01:18:04,912 --> 01:18:10,409
cold. There have been no public engagement sessions. And I

1099
01:18:10,409 --> 01:18:13,289
would suggest that most members of the public have no

1100
01:18:13,329 --> 01:18:17,129
idea, not a clue that this bylaw is being considered

1101
01:18:17,390 --> 01:18:21,904
this evening. The City can do better than this. I

1102
01:18:22,005 --> 01:18:26,738
know that. I'm asking the City to withdraw this proposed

1103
01:18:26,839 --> 01:18:31,698
by law. And at this time to allow for more

1104
01:18:31,799 --> 01:18:36,618
engagement with the public at large. This should include the

1105
01:18:36,959 --> 01:18:40,938
provision of illustrated examples of how the proposals could have

1106
01:18:41,119 --> 01:18:45,338
an impact on adjacent properties. The more pictures, the better

1107
01:18:46,399 --> 01:18:49,898
so much more easily, her accessible for people like me.

1108
01:18:51,527 --> 01:18:55,506
I believe this action will be appreciated by the many,

1109
01:18:55,607 --> 01:19:00,306
many citizens who will be affected by future info development.

1110
01:19:01,123 --> 01:19:06,532
Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Sargent. Are there questions, should

1111
01:19:06,532 --> 01:19:09,848
speak her? Not seeing any. Uh, thank you so much

1112
01:19:09,869 --> 01:19:14,308
for being here. Uh, we now come to the end

1113
01:19:14,308 --> 01:19:17,848
of the list of speakers, but anyone in the gallery

1114
01:19:17,869 --> 01:19:20,968
who, uh, wishes to speak may do so. Is there

1115
01:19:20,968 --> 01:19:23,688
anyone who would like to speak to this item.

1116
01:19:30,886 --> 01:19:36,625
Uh, whoever, I'm sorry, who? All right. Please go to

1117
01:19:36,625 --> 01:19:45,237
the podium. Welcome. And, uh, I think you've heard the

1118
01:19:45,277 --> 01:19:48,117
rules of engagement here. And so if you could just

1119
01:19:48,157 --> 01:19:55,140
kind of introduce yourself when you're ready and begin. Sure.

1120
01:19:55,801 --> 01:19:57,620
I just have an image that I could pass around

1121
01:19:58,041 --> 01:20:00,980
of what a step actually, a step height, looks like

1122
01:20:01,001 --> 01:20:03,075
at 1. 3 metres. So I'll just.

1123
01:20:13,751 --> 01:20:15,810
And I'll just ask you to adjust the microphone so

1124
01:20:15,831 --> 01:20:18,210
that you can, we can hear you a little better.

1125
01:20:18,210 --> 01:20:24,702
Thanks. Perfect. Thank you. Um, your honour and council, thank

1126
01:20:24,702 --> 01:20:27,182
you for the opportunity to speak this evening. Um, my

1127
01:20:27,182 --> 01:20:31,337
name is Mark Robin and I'm a local architect. And

1128
01:20:31,377 --> 01:20:35,977
a builder of Infill Homes with Design Build. And our

1129
01:20:35,977 --> 01:20:39,817
longstanding member on various panels regarding SaaStoons infill regulations from

1130
01:20:39,998 --> 01:20:45,349
their early inception. In 2010, 16 community associations came together

1131
01:20:45,930 --> 01:20:50,069
through concern over scale and character of infill homes rising

1132
01:20:50,330 --> 01:20:53,846
in existing neighbourhoods. A mass of amount of work was

1133
01:20:53,947 --> 01:20:58,006
done over five years to balance current building practices with

1134
01:20:58,267 --> 01:21:02,886
interests of character and scale. Together with council in 2015,

1135
01:21:02,886 --> 01:21:08,486
we implemented these landmark regulations. These regulations are working well.

1136
01:21:10,089 --> 01:21:14,788
Exterior scale and massing have drastically improved basement development is

1137
01:21:14,828 --> 01:21:20,423
up over 60 percent has even made a comeback. Large

1138
01:21:20,444 --> 01:21:26,378
scale wells and other innovations are becoming commonplace. The building

1139
01:21:26,399 --> 01:21:31,175
industry is maturing. And now using previously underutilized parts of

1140
01:21:31,175 --> 01:21:35,175
the home to find their extra square footage. The regulations

1141
01:21:35,215 --> 01:21:38,935
have helped by the confidence of residents in established neighbourhoods.

1142
01:21:40,390 --> 01:21:43,569
And the adverse reaction to infill has slowly declined over

1143
01:21:43,609 --> 01:21:50,850
this period as a result. Two primary recommendations have been

1144
01:21:50,850 --> 01:21:55,650
made this evening undermine the effectiveness of the regulations. The

1145
01:21:55,911 --> 01:21:59,250
relaxing of sale height and the permitted psi wall area

1146
01:21:59,671 --> 01:22:03,250
are not tied to any higher municipal goals of affordability

1147
01:22:03,271 --> 01:22:07,330
or density. And we'll simply result in larger, more expensive

1148
01:22:07,351 --> 01:22:12,930
homes. Neighbourhood residents are not asking for these changes. The

1149
01:22:12,951 --> 01:22:22,144
development industry is. In 2014, consultant firm Brooke McElroy recommended

1150
01:22:22,405 --> 01:22:27,662
a maximum seal height of 0. 9 metres. Development pressure

1151
01:22:27,923 --> 01:22:32,295
later saw this increase to 1. 0 metres. A two

1152
01:22:32,295 --> 01:22:36,455
bedroom basement suite is easily accommodated under the existing regulations

1153
01:22:36,495 --> 01:22:41,815
on the very small list of lots. A 24 inch

1154
01:22:41,855 --> 01:22:45,655
tall egress window can be accommodated without a window well.

1155
01:22:45,655 --> 01:22:49,495
And much larger with the window well. Consulting with three

1156
01:22:49,535 --> 01:22:53,815
different architecture firms, sewer depth arises in about three percent

1157
01:22:53,855 --> 01:22:57,575
of cases. And in every single case, this has been

1158
01:22:57,615 --> 01:23:00,775
resolved by going through an eight foot, sorry, going to

1159
01:23:00,796 --> 01:23:03,655
an eight foot basement ceiling instead of a nine foot

1160
01:23:03,756 --> 01:23:08,135
or a tent foot. In a situation, if a situation

1161
01:23:08,556 --> 01:23:11,015
were to arise where a shallow utility could not be

1162
01:23:11,196 --> 01:23:16,135
resolved through design, a pump or a variance application are

1163
01:23:16,175 --> 01:23:20,441
both tools in place that could be available. Had the

1164
01:23:20,441 --> 01:23:24,441
administration directly track and report back on data of non

1165
01:23:24,622 --> 01:23:27,721
- standard utility connections as directed by Council on May

1166
01:23:28,062 --> 01:23:32,121
24th of 2022. They likely would have seen this very

1167
01:23:32,161 --> 01:23:37,825
similar results. An image of a front step at 1.

1168
01:23:37,865 --> 01:23:44,394
3 metres is included that I've circulated. Um, a sill

1169
01:23:44,394 --> 01:23:48,234
height increase from one metre to 1. 3 metre is

1170
01:23:48,415 --> 01:23:58,375
unnecessary. Relaxing sidewall area bylaws, the very small

1171
01:23:58,556 --> 01:24:02,775
list of lots, a 25 foot by 130 foot will

1172
01:24:02,815 --> 01:24:06,843
yield up to 2, 000 square feet. As a two

1173
01:24:06,883 --> 01:24:10,763
- story. And an additional 600 square feet with addict

1174
01:24:10,763 --> 01:24:14,763
development and an additional 1, 000 square feet with basement

1175
01:24:14,784 --> 01:24:22,097
development. Larger lots will yield much larger homes. Loopholes still

1176
01:24:22,137 --> 01:24:24,897
remain in the bylaw as to propose this evening. However,

1177
01:24:25,238 --> 01:24:28,157
well - intended, whenever an exemption is made in the

1178
01:24:28,278 --> 01:24:32,977
bylaw, it exposes the byla up to gaming manipulation and

1179
01:24:32,998 --> 01:24:38,707
exploitation. Originally in 2015, fascia soffits and all other elements

1180
01:24:38,968 --> 01:24:41,667
were intended to be included as mass in the sidewall

1181
01:24:41,707 --> 01:24:45,976
area calculation to simplify the bylaw. But we're not. And

1182
01:24:46,016 --> 01:24:49,854
are still not remedied in this new proposal. A definition

1183
01:24:49,894 --> 01:24:53,454
of steeply slope proofs versus walls is also not included

1184
01:24:53,555 --> 01:24:57,881
in this proposal. Nor are roofs over occupied areas versus

1185
01:24:58,142 --> 01:25:02,819
decorative roofs on sidewalls. This would have been the opportunity

1186
01:25:02,859 --> 01:25:06,579
to clean up and simplify the bylaw. However, these loopholes

1187
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:10,739
remain. Interpretation will continue to be a problem for administrative

1188
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:16,409
staff. In summary, these proposed changes fail to meet four

1189
01:25:16,449 --> 01:25:20,569
key benchmarks. They don't increase density. They don't produce affordable

1190
01:25:20,590 --> 01:25:24,889
housing. They don't improve context - sensitive design and they

1191
01:25:24,889 --> 01:25:28,169
don't address existing loopholes or problems in the bylaw. I'm

1192
01:25:28,209 --> 01:25:32,249
sorry. That's it. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Do

1193
01:25:32,249 --> 01:25:37,382
we have questions for the speaker. I'm not seeing any,

1194
01:25:37,382 --> 01:25:40,296
but thank you for your presentation. Thank you. Are there

1195
01:25:40,296 --> 01:25:42,521
any others who would like to speak. Go ahead.

1196
01:25:54,544 --> 01:25:59,208
Your worship councillors. Thanks for the opportunity to speak. I'm

1197
01:25:59,389 --> 01:26:03,448
Jonathan Naylor and I'm speaking on behalf of the vast

1198
01:26:03,448 --> 01:26:08,248
if you community association, which is asking you not to

1199
01:26:08,429 --> 01:26:14,525
pass. The sidewall variants, the set - pack exceptions, or

1200
01:26:14,525 --> 01:26:19,807
the change in Silhite. To just sort of put this

1201
01:26:20,068 --> 01:26:26,047
in personal terms, many of our residents remember the time

1202
01:26:26,708 --> 01:26:31,212
when we did not have the sidewall rule. We had

1203
01:26:32,033 --> 01:26:37,052
very large rectangular homes which pushed deep back into the

1204
01:26:37,233 --> 01:26:43,382
lot. They only housed one family. Uh, and the neighbours

1205
01:26:43,422 --> 01:26:47,842
suffered privacy and shading concerns. We also lost a lot

1206
01:26:47,842 --> 01:26:52,555
of trees. Which is one of the features of our

1207
01:26:52,595 --> 01:26:58,875
neighbourhood, which many residents treasure and certainly provide ecological benefits.

1208
01:27:02,538 --> 01:27:07,797
There's a lot of infillin on neighbourhood. Sam Hc showed

1209
01:27:08,778 --> 01:27:14,382
data that starts housing starts for up in Saskatoon. The

1210
01:27:14,483 --> 01:27:17,102
current by - laws appear to be working just fine.

1211
01:27:19,090 --> 01:27:23,149
If you pass by laws which allowed, or Bylow changes

1212
01:27:23,170 --> 01:27:27,149
which allow bigger changes, but will the result of that

1213
01:27:27,189 --> 01:27:32,716
be. What limits housing in Saskatoon. One of the things

1214
01:27:32,817 --> 01:27:36,824
is labour. I'm trying to get, change it done by

1215
01:27:37,005 --> 01:27:41,384
basement. I know. Um, so if you divert your labour

1216
01:27:42,125 --> 01:27:46,984
into building very large homes, then you take it away

1217
01:27:47,405 --> 01:27:51,858
from building more affordable homes. It's just pretty much that

1218
01:27:52,039 --> 01:27:56,539
simple. What is the typical house that's built in vast

1219
01:27:56,539 --> 01:28:00,715
if you on a 25 wide lot. Well, typically it's

1220
01:28:00,976 --> 01:28:04,769
2, 000 square feet. Typically it has a thousand square

1221
01:28:04,809 --> 01:28:09,314
feet. Which could be a secondary suite. Um, as Marcus

1222
01:28:09,354 --> 01:28:13,714
said, um, you could be creative about the attic and

1223
01:28:13,754 --> 01:28:15,807
that even more space. A lot of the people who

1224
01:28:15,847 --> 01:28:19,031
live in those homes are one or two people. Because

1225
01:28:19,031 --> 01:28:22,071
typically their older people who actually have the money to

1226
01:28:22,172 --> 01:28:25,671
afford to live in that neighbourhood. And they've typically often

1227
01:28:26,412 --> 01:28:34,666
their kids have left. I mean, occasionally, hopefully. So there

1228
01:28:34,687 --> 01:28:37,706
are losses to the neighbourhood when we have increased sight

1229
01:28:37,746 --> 01:28:41,146
coverage. We do have less vegetation. We do have less

1230
01:28:41,327 --> 01:28:44,746
shading. We do have less trees to soak up the

1231
01:28:44,786 --> 01:28:50,938
water. So there are losses associated with these proposed changes.

1232
01:28:51,584 --> 01:28:53,963
And as I've already said, I would urge you to

1233
01:28:53,984 --> 01:28:57,768
reject them. Thank you for your time. Are the questions,

1234
01:28:57,768 --> 01:29:03,789
Red Speaker. Not seeing any, but thank you. Uh, would

1235
01:29:03,789 --> 01:29:06,250
you like to speak. Go ahead and take the microphone.

1236
01:29:17,124 --> 01:29:19,903
So good evening. My name is Robert Clipperton. I'm speaking

1237
01:29:19,924 --> 01:29:23,503
on behalf of the new town Community Association. And I

1238
01:29:23,503 --> 01:29:27,663
urge Council to reject these proposed amendments. In my 12

1239
01:29:27,663 --> 01:29:30,623
years with the NCAA, we've been part of a community

1240
01:29:30,724 --> 01:29:33,823
- based effort to have infill protections put into place

1241
01:29:34,164 --> 01:29:37,743
first in 2015. And again, to push back against proposals

1242
01:29:37,743 --> 01:29:42,783
to relax these restrictions into 2022, these proposals were rejected

1243
01:29:42,804 --> 01:29:46,056
by Council. And here we are only four years later

1244
01:29:46,317 --> 01:29:49,176
with another initiative to once again make it easier to

1245
01:29:49,197 --> 01:29:54,296
build larger homes in our neighbourhoods. What has changed? Our

1246
01:29:54,336 --> 01:29:57,896
residents and homeowners pleading for these changes, which will allow

1247
01:29:57,936 --> 01:30:01,496
for larger houses. Do we see empty lots where builders

1248
01:30:01,517 --> 01:30:04,136
have found it impossible or even difficult to build new

1249
01:30:04,157 --> 01:30:08,648
housing? I think not. The NCA does not see any

1250
01:30:08,669 --> 01:30:11,848
benefit from these changes other than the more profit to

1251
01:30:11,848 --> 01:30:15,128
be made from the sale of a larger host than

1252
01:30:15,168 --> 01:30:18,648
a smaller one. So the proposals address two aspects of

1253
01:30:19,149 --> 01:30:22,488
host design. One is increased cell height. The main argument

1254
01:30:22,509 --> 01:30:25,608
for this is that there are lots where sewer services

1255
01:30:25,869 --> 01:30:30,088
are so shallow that it hampers the depth of basements.

1256
01:30:30,088 --> 01:30:32,168
And this has been referred to the admin report that

1257
01:30:32,589 --> 01:30:36,728
was supposed to track the impact of sale height restrictions

1258
01:30:37,229 --> 01:30:41,848
resulting from non - standard services connections. So where is

1259
01:30:41,848 --> 01:30:45,128
that data? And I suspect it's like a previous speaker

1260
01:30:45,149 --> 01:30:49,528
said. It is so small that, uh, the, uh, became

1261
01:30:49,528 --> 01:30:52,248
not worth mentioning. I've been told there's only been a

1262
01:30:52,248 --> 01:30:55,757
handful of instances like that in the past decade. Um,

1263
01:30:55,858 --> 01:30:59,837
the sale height on my house is 60 centimeters. Most

1264
01:30:59,837 --> 01:31:02,317
houses on my block are lower than that. I looked

1265
01:31:02,317 --> 01:31:04,157
at the house across the street and said, well, it

1266
01:31:04,197 --> 01:31:08,477
looks considerably higher. It's 80 centimeters. There's only one house

1267
01:31:08,517 --> 01:31:11,037
on our block, an older infield that looks to be

1268
01:31:11,077 --> 01:31:14,077
higher than the current one metre rule. And one third

1269
01:31:14,117 --> 01:31:16,877
of a metre may not only look like a small

1270
01:31:17,058 --> 01:31:23,117
amount, but it is a 30 percent increasescape. Those of

1271
01:31:23,117 --> 01:31:26,237
us living in existing neighbourhoods want them to retain the

1272
01:31:26,338 --> 01:31:29,997
character, which prompted us to take up residents there in

1273
01:31:29,997 --> 01:31:33,357
the first place. And the other aspect is sidewall massing

1274
01:31:34,018 --> 01:31:36,637
and other speakers have shown quite eloquently that this will

1275
01:31:36,677 --> 01:31:39,517
lead to much larger homes on corner lots, which can

1276
01:31:39,538 --> 01:31:43,117
affect quality of life and property values, not only on

1277
01:31:43,218 --> 01:31:46,797
adjoining properties, but in the neighbourhood as a whole. Throughout

1278
01:31:46,818 --> 01:31:50,477
these discussions, people refer to the constraints imposed by the

1279
01:31:50,818 --> 01:31:54,797
half initiative, according to the federal website. This funding is

1280
01:31:54,818 --> 01:31:59,677
meant to support the development of affordable inclusive, equitable and

1281
01:31:59,677 --> 01:32:02,557
climate resilient communities. And I don't think anyone can argue

1282
01:32:02,738 --> 01:32:06,797
that higher door sale height or increased wall massing will

1283
01:32:06,818 --> 01:32:10,397
result in an increase in either the number or affordability

1284
01:32:10,437 --> 01:32:14,557
of houses. Replacing a small three bedroom home with a

1285
01:32:14,557 --> 01:32:18,477
larger three bedroom home does not increase either housing supply

1286
01:32:19,138 --> 01:32:23,757
or population density and large houses are not more affordable

1287
01:32:23,938 --> 01:32:26,877
than small ones. And finally, a few comments on the

1288
01:32:26,978 --> 01:32:29,837
engagement process. And I must say that in recent years,

1289
01:32:29,837 --> 01:32:33,877
I found Saskatoon's engagement team to be pretty effective. I

1290
01:32:34,018 --> 01:32:36,077
suspect, however, they had very little to do with this

1291
01:32:36,258 --> 01:32:39,597
attempt. Uh, the city says, are the report says the

1292
01:32:39,618 --> 01:32:42,957
City Consulted with the home builders association through multiple meetings

1293
01:32:43,298 --> 01:32:47,117
to obtain input on proposed amendments? Why were there no

1294
01:32:47,138 --> 01:32:51,897
public meetings with residents of these affected neighbourhoods and the

1295
01:32:51,897 --> 01:32:55,677
men made a reference to a meeting in 2015 on

1296
01:32:55,677 --> 01:32:59,257
the internet? I was there. We called another one, uh,

1297
01:32:59,257 --> 01:33:03,257
on our own of Community Associations. And I guess, uh,

1298
01:33:03,538 --> 01:33:06,877
got the information that we wanted. So if you're really

1299
01:33:06,898 --> 01:33:09,197
interested in engaging the public on an issue, you wouldn't

1300
01:33:09,197 --> 01:33:13,037
do so during the sleeper months of July and August.

1301
01:33:13,037 --> 01:33:15,517
Somebody already said that most of the residents have no

1302
01:33:15,517 --> 01:33:19,117
idea this meeting's happening. Tonight far too complicated to have

1303
01:33:19,378 --> 01:33:23,037
abbreviated explanations on the internet, what we needed where a

1304
01:33:23,058 --> 01:33:25,677
public meeting are two where people could meet in person

1305
01:33:25,698 --> 01:33:29,357
ask questions and interact both with each other and civic

1306
01:33:29,397 --> 01:33:32,637
officials. And the materials posted on the City's Engage page

1307
01:33:32,818 --> 01:33:35,917
were lacking in detail. At one point, viewers were referred

1308
01:33:35,957 --> 01:33:39,517
to the infill review project report, which was not written

1309
01:33:39,538 --> 01:33:44,477
for the general public. Here's a quote. OUD's TUDs. SDD

1310
01:33:45,058 --> 01:33:50,157
S's MUS's in established neighbourhoods, except MUDs and CR1 and

1311
01:33:50,197 --> 01:33:54,797
CR2 Zones, CGA corner lots in TDA. Did you understand

1312
01:33:54,818 --> 01:33:58,477
that? I still don't. At one point, viewers were directed

1313
01:33:58,517 --> 01:34:01,177
to click on a link for more detailed information, but

1314
01:34:01,177 --> 01:34:03,357
when you did so, it just brought you back to

1315
01:34:03,378 --> 01:34:06,237
where you clicked on the link in the first place.

1316
01:34:06,237 --> 01:34:10,557
Um, tonight's meeting was initially advertised as being on Saturday,

1317
01:34:10,557 --> 01:34:14,128
August 29th. So I wrote in to say, Hey, I

1318
01:34:14,168 --> 01:34:16,768
think there's a mistake been made here. Both the ants

1319
01:34:16,808 --> 01:34:18,768
and the means to accomplish some are flawed and should

1320
01:34:18,789 --> 01:34:22,438
be put back on the shelf. Thank you. Thank you

1321
01:34:22,539 --> 01:34:27,188
Mr. Clipperton. Are there any questions. I'm not seeing any.

1322
01:34:27,188 --> 01:34:30,308
Thank you. Uh, I don't think there's anyone left in

1323
01:34:30,308 --> 01:34:33,668
the gallery to speak to this. Oh, go right ahead.

1324
01:34:35,237 --> 01:34:37,616
You were the only person who's not administration who has

1325
01:34:37,616 --> 01:34:38,896
not yet spoken.

1326
01:34:50,976 --> 01:34:53,275
Your Honour Council, my name is Brett Johnson. I'm an

1327
01:34:53,275 --> 01:34:55,195
owner of a design company called Final Draft in the

1328
01:34:55,235 --> 01:35:01,716
City. We cover, I would say probably, we're one of

1329
01:35:02,137 --> 01:35:05,396
six companies within Saskatchewan that covers the majority of your

1330
01:35:05,497 --> 01:35:09,979
residential design. So customers alike home builder. By the way,

1331
01:35:09,979 --> 01:35:12,459
I'm a part of the homebrew association for the last

1332
01:35:12,480 --> 01:35:17,659
25 years. Um, we covered design companies. And for design

1333
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:22,299
for private individuals as well. So, um, me coming up

1334
01:35:22,299 --> 01:35:25,659
and speaking isn't necessarily to support one thing or the

1335
01:35:25,699 --> 01:35:28,619
other, but maybe give the council an opportunity to ask

1336
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:31,179
questions or give my insight about some of the points

1337
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:35,504
that weren't brought up. Um, the bigger thing is we're

1338
01:35:35,685 --> 01:35:39,104
very close to something that might be a compromise from

1339
01:35:39,285 --> 01:35:45,471
all courses. Um, in my office. I've said to Mark,

1340
01:35:45,471 --> 01:35:47,311
to your staff, by the way, who have been doing

1341
01:35:47,332 --> 01:35:51,391
a terrific job on bringing this forth, we're probably 10

1342
01:35:51,431 --> 01:35:55,414
to 15 percent. If we could go 10 to 15

1343
01:35:55,515 --> 01:35:57,814
percent, I could probably make our office could probably make

1344
01:35:58,555 --> 01:36:05,322
most of the wishes from our customers'work. So whether it's

1345
01:36:05,362 --> 01:36:12,522
a design related solution or city of Saskatoon solution or

1346
01:36:12,522 --> 01:36:15,802
just, uh, a technical solution for being able to make

1347
01:36:15,823 --> 01:36:20,123
the walls work, the roof heights work. Or it's a

1348
01:36:20,123 --> 01:36:23,483
stuff in the matter where the city has, for example,

1349
01:36:23,664 --> 01:36:27,513
the uplift station. Uh, we've worked in Alberta, worked in

1350
01:36:27,534 --> 01:36:31,993
BC. And there's a lot of cities that regularly use

1351
01:36:32,094 --> 01:36:35,113
uplift stations when the footing heights are lower than the

1352
01:36:35,113 --> 01:36:38,687
utility connections. And that would point to another greater issue.

1353
01:36:39,486 --> 01:36:41,465
Council, you're going to have to make a decision eventually.

1354
01:36:41,465 --> 01:36:43,785
And you make it street by street by street now.

1355
01:36:44,126 --> 01:36:48,440
Your utility connections. And your utility sewer heights. If you

1356
01:36:48,440 --> 01:36:50,380
went through and if you did a looked at all

1357
01:36:50,380 --> 01:36:53,180
that, there's a huge amount of that that is just

1358
01:36:53,180 --> 01:36:57,396
so outdated. That has to be upgraded and money needs

1359
01:36:57,396 --> 01:37:03,076
to be spent there to accommodate nowadays technology, the amount

1360
01:37:03,097 --> 01:37:06,836
of volume of water that we're using. And so that's

1361
01:37:07,017 --> 01:37:10,196
one solution. The other few solutions that come up mark

1362
01:37:10,196 --> 01:37:14,596
alluded to them, uh, we're coming back to using more,

1363
01:37:14,596 --> 01:37:18,596
uh, bigger window wells, um, people don't like window wells.

1364
01:37:18,596 --> 01:37:20,596
The reason why they don't like windows is because when

1365
01:37:20,596 --> 01:37:25,796
we built up until the mid or early 2000s or

1366
01:37:25,836 --> 01:37:29,156
early 1990s, no one would put a window well in

1367
01:37:29,196 --> 01:37:30,836
because we didn't have to stand pipes that would be

1368
01:37:30,876 --> 01:37:34,223
working with our sumps. So our sumps would then pick

1369
01:37:34,263 --> 01:37:37,983
up the water and discharge it. The city doesn't allow

1370
01:37:38,023 --> 01:37:41,503
us to take it into our own control. They ask

1371
01:37:41,543 --> 01:37:43,903
us to discharge it out onto the street so that

1372
01:37:43,943 --> 01:37:46,143
it can go in through down to the river and

1373
01:37:46,143 --> 01:37:48,463
so on and be on take it that way, which

1374
01:37:48,884 --> 01:37:52,783
was a simple thing that happened 20 years ago, gave

1375
01:37:52,783 --> 01:37:54,543
or take, um, I tell you how long I've been

1376
01:37:54,543 --> 01:37:58,783
doing this. But so the simple steps that have started

1377
01:37:58,823 --> 01:38:01,743
to work for everyone. I guess the question that the

1378
01:38:01,783 --> 01:38:04,143
council has to make a decision on all these little

1379
01:38:04,164 --> 01:38:08,449
things can get worked out. I am in support. Of

1380
01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:12,555
everything but the seal height. I think all of that

1381
01:38:12,595 --> 01:38:17,195
stuff is very easily worked out. Um, but what I'm

1382
01:38:17,296 --> 01:38:20,395
curious about is from council is you're not arguing about

1383
01:38:20,496 --> 01:38:24,395
all of these little things. All of these small points

1384
01:38:24,816 --> 01:38:27,915
you can hit there. You're actually talking about how much

1385
01:38:28,176 --> 01:38:30,875
is it going to cost? You talk about affordability. When

1386
01:38:30,875 --> 01:38:34,075
you say the word affordability, are you saying how much

1387
01:38:35,056 --> 01:38:38,275
has construction rows to be able to build anything? Or

1388
01:38:38,275 --> 01:38:40,155
are you talking about being able to build an affordable

1389
01:38:40,176 --> 01:38:42,395
house for someone that's going to be buying something that's

1390
01:38:42,656 --> 01:38:46,426
less than 500, 000 dollars. Our average, I don't have

1391
01:38:46,466 --> 01:38:47,866
this off the top of my head, but our average

1392
01:38:47,967 --> 01:38:54,226
house is rising up towards 400, 000 dollars now. So

1393
01:38:54,226 --> 01:38:57,146
our average cost is growing, but the part that we're

1394
01:38:57,247 --> 01:39:00,186
arguing about is not about a 4, 000 dollar house.

1395
01:39:00,287 --> 01:39:04,026
This is a 800, 000 dollar house or higher. We're

1396
01:39:04,026 --> 01:39:06,986
talking about the mansions. We're talking about houses that are

1397
01:39:07,087 --> 01:39:11,711
over 2, 000 square feet. Or much larger than that.

1398
01:39:11,711 --> 01:39:14,431
We're only hitting that on 30 feet or less lots

1399
01:39:14,431 --> 01:39:16,911
that are 30 feet or smaller, most likely on the

1400
01:39:16,951 --> 01:39:19,631
25 foot split. And when you put all those in

1401
01:39:19,812 --> 01:39:23,711
the sidewall starts to become an issue. And I guess

1402
01:39:23,812 --> 01:39:28,041
the 10 percent is worth looking at. Um, and worth

1403
01:39:28,062 --> 01:39:31,241
passing the sale height is a personal thing. I argue

1404
01:39:31,241 --> 01:39:34,441
and go back and forth not based on obviously I'm

1405
01:39:34,441 --> 01:39:36,361
speaking against some of the thing in the home builder

1406
01:39:36,382 --> 01:39:40,601
association would want. I'm arguing for good design. Now what's

1407
01:39:40,601 --> 01:39:44,679
good design. Everybody has an idea of what good design

1408
01:39:44,700 --> 01:39:49,296
is. But good design takes into all of those stuff

1409
01:39:49,477 --> 01:39:53,296
into account to what suits the neighbourhood, but also suits

1410
01:39:53,296 --> 01:40:03,281
the customer. So that speaker Councillor Ford. Thank you.

1411
01:40:03,281 --> 01:40:07,121
Your worship through you too. Is it Mr. Johnson? Yes.

1412
01:40:08,262 --> 01:40:10,721
You mentioned something I just wrote it down. You said

1413
01:40:10,761 --> 01:40:14,481
that the sewer utility lines are outdated. Can you speak

1414
01:40:14,521 --> 01:40:16,841
on that? Or is that did you say that? Is

1415
01:40:16,841 --> 01:40:19,601
that what I heard? Yeah. So five years ago, four

1416
01:40:19,641 --> 01:40:24,192
years ago, you placed most of Avenue G South. We've

1417
01:40:24,232 --> 01:40:27,532
done two houses. So if I could call off, uh,

1418
01:40:27,733 --> 01:40:31,632
two blocks directly, uh, towards the river from the friendship

1419
01:40:31,672 --> 01:40:35,312
in, I'm sure everyone knows that community relatively well. Cynthia,

1420
01:40:35,312 --> 01:40:38,492
you should, you've supported that for a long time. Uh,

1421
01:40:38,492 --> 01:40:41,632
that street was replaced. Any new house that goes on

1422
01:40:41,653 --> 01:40:44,992
to that will not have a problem with supplying water

1423
01:40:45,333 --> 01:40:49,281
or worse, the sewer. On that block, because that whole

1424
01:40:49,382 --> 01:40:53,548
street resempla placed, uh, only a few years ago. There

1425
01:40:53,569 --> 01:41:01,209
are multiple older neighbourhoods that house shallow, um, utilities. So,

1426
01:41:01,209 --> 01:41:03,209
and I'm just calling it out saying that you're going

1427
01:41:03,209 --> 01:41:05,560
to have an issue with that. If like something like

1428
01:41:05,661 --> 01:41:08,520
a fire happened or if you had a massive amount

1429
01:41:08,541 --> 01:41:12,835
of houses, that inventory that needed to be replaced. Because

1430
01:41:12,835 --> 01:41:15,365
all of them will have to be done. So it's

1431
01:41:15,405 --> 01:41:19,605
just old inventory. It's just like our, our housing requirements.

1432
01:41:19,645 --> 01:41:22,325
We have a massive amount of old inventory out there.

1433
01:41:22,325 --> 01:41:24,565
And it will still and get, get older and older

1434
01:41:24,666 --> 01:41:29,671
and older. Unless you can come to a conclusion. With

1435
01:41:29,772 --> 01:41:33,591
the association and my customers, because they're the ones that

1436
01:41:33,591 --> 01:41:35,911
are going to buy those old band and lots. Those

1437
01:41:35,911 --> 01:41:37,831
are the ones that are going to drop those houses

1438
01:41:37,932 --> 01:41:40,151
and put new houses up in whatever state they end

1439
01:41:40,151 --> 01:41:42,311
up designing it for. But it'll just sit there because

1440
01:41:42,332 --> 01:41:47,193
it's not affordable enough. Or most customers. I've had customers

1441
01:41:47,214 --> 01:41:50,308
come in, purchase a lot. And then sell it eight

1442
01:41:50,348 --> 01:41:52,548
months later because we couldn't get what they wanted out

1443
01:41:52,548 --> 01:41:58,596
of it. Okay. Thank you. Councillor McDonald. Thank you Madam

1444
01:41:58,636 --> 01:42:01,316
Mayor through. Um, you said, but you are a builder

1445
01:42:01,817 --> 01:42:05,106
in the city. Uh, I own final draft. So I

1446
01:42:05,287 --> 01:42:07,906
know last year we did 175 projects within the city

1447
01:42:07,906 --> 01:42:10,901
of Saskatoon. So in a lot of the pitchers that

1448
01:42:10,922 --> 01:42:13,461
we've seen today on like infills and things, like I've

1449
01:42:13,461 --> 01:42:16,181
noticed a lot of them have flatter roofs. Is that

1450
01:42:16,602 --> 01:42:21,781
to allow for a larger sidewall? Nope. No. No. That's

1451
01:42:21,781 --> 01:42:23,941
just for fun. Just practice this a little bit before

1452
01:42:25,082 --> 01:42:27,061
in what was it 2015 or five or six years

1453
01:42:27,101 --> 01:42:31,141
ago. I'm the one that put the physical form to

1454
01:42:31,181 --> 01:42:35,475
the sidewall calculation. Darryl and Mark and I put it

1455
01:42:35,475 --> 01:42:40,755
together mathematically. So it is sort of a Tetris version

1456
01:42:40,755 --> 01:42:44,035
of it, but it's about sidewall and shifting and making

1457
01:42:44,216 --> 01:42:46,815
as much sidewall or as little sidewall as you can

1458
01:42:46,815 --> 01:42:50,008
within a calculation that someone could understand. If you can

1459
01:42:50,048 --> 01:42:54,408
understand that hats off to you. But, um, most of

1460
01:42:54,589 --> 01:42:57,828
the sidewall stuff that comes up in our office, um,

1461
01:43:00,109 --> 01:43:02,328
it's exactly what everyone was saying. How high we have

1462
01:43:02,328 --> 01:43:06,568
to get it out of the water to get it

1463
01:43:06,568 --> 01:43:11,217
to float. And get away from the, uh, uplift station.

1464
01:43:11,217 --> 01:43:13,915
But everyone wants a nine foot basement. They want a

1465
01:43:13,955 --> 01:43:16,315
nine foot main floor and then one a nine foot

1466
01:43:16,336 --> 01:43:22,127
second floor. And we are literally 10 percent away from

1467
01:43:22,148 --> 01:43:25,487
that change from making that work. Cause the average house

1468
01:43:25,508 --> 01:43:27,967
that comes in that doesn't then feel is 18 to

1469
01:43:28,148 --> 01:43:33,701
2, 100 square feet. I will try to follow that.

1470
01:43:33,701 --> 01:43:37,761
Thank you. I think that's the end of the questions,

1471
01:43:37,761 --> 01:43:44,377
but thanks very much for being here. We've come to

1472
01:43:44,417 --> 01:43:47,097
the end of our speakers. So the next, uh, the

1473
01:43:47,097 --> 01:43:50,217
next opportunity is for Council to ask questions of administration.

1474
01:43:50,217 --> 01:43:55,873
So the floor is now open for that. Councillor Ford.

1475
01:43:57,458 --> 01:44:00,517
Thank you, your worship. And through you to administration, I

1476
01:44:00,517 --> 01:44:04,797
just had some questions. And I guess it's from some

1477
01:44:04,797 --> 01:44:09,677
of the comments that were made today. Counts Council considered

1478
01:44:10,418 --> 01:44:13,997
a similar sidewall changes in 2022 and did not approve

1479
01:44:14,037 --> 01:44:18,153
that bylaw at the time. What is different today. Thank

1480
01:44:18,193 --> 01:44:21,273
you for the question. Through the chair. So back in

1481
01:44:21,454 --> 01:44:27,193
2022, um, we had proposed the same change to store

1482
01:44:27,233 --> 01:44:31,494
cell height. Which we still support. Primarily based on the

1483
01:44:31,595 --> 01:44:36,854
sewer connections. Um, and that it's, it's minor. With sidewall,

1484
01:44:36,854 --> 01:44:43,654
we proposed, um, to exempt the distance from the flanking

1485
01:44:43,675 --> 01:44:50,374
street of three or flanking other property, the neighbouring property,

1486
01:44:50,374 --> 01:44:54,214
three metres. And now we're proposing that that setback be

1487
01:44:54,254 --> 01:44:57,607
greater, um, up to four and a half. So we're

1488
01:44:57,628 --> 01:45:02,087
increasing the setback for the exemption from three to four

1489
01:45:02,087 --> 01:45:05,527
and a half. And then also we had proposed to

1490
01:45:05,868 --> 01:45:12,301
exempt gable ends. That one was, although it would have

1491
01:45:12,341 --> 01:45:17,901
helped, um, certain designs, perhaps some that our speakers did.

1492
01:45:17,901 --> 01:45:22,381
It also left the potential for some very odd building

1493
01:45:22,421 --> 01:45:25,821
designs that could be accommodated with a very, with one

1494
01:45:25,842 --> 01:45:29,261
story and then a huge, a huge gable end that

1495
01:45:30,082 --> 01:45:35,741
again, um, really doesn't, doesn't gain anything. And it would

1496
01:45:35,741 --> 01:45:38,301
really contravene or not contravene. It wouldn't meet the goals

1497
01:45:38,341 --> 01:45:42,700
of the sidewall area. So for those reasons, council didn't

1498
01:45:42,721 --> 01:45:45,900
approve it. And we also had, um, the same opposition

1499
01:45:46,401 --> 01:45:49,900
from the same essentially from the same groups at that

1500
01:45:50,241 --> 01:45:54,742
meeting. Okay. So it went from 3. 5 to 4.

1501
01:45:54,742 --> 01:45:58,422
5. Is that what we're three to 4. 5. So,

1502
01:45:58,422 --> 01:46:02,182
so what new evidence data experiences administration obtained since 22

1503
01:46:02,763 --> 01:46:08,589
that supports approving these sidewall changes now. That's a very

1504
01:46:08,629 --> 01:46:12,589
good question. And through the chair. So instead of exempting

1505
01:46:12,770 --> 01:46:18,189
gay balance or specific architectural features like dormers or little

1506
01:46:18,210 --> 01:46:23,469
roof areas through our consultation and through the work we

1507
01:46:23,469 --> 01:46:26,989
did, we felt that the 10 percent increase would address

1508
01:46:27,730 --> 01:46:31,629
those, um, small, small design changes. So instead of exempting

1509
01:46:31,650 --> 01:46:35,309
specific architecture features like gay BLen's and getting for lack

1510
01:46:35,309 --> 01:46:38,669
of a better word goofy, potentially goofy designs, increase across

1511
01:46:38,690 --> 01:46:41,549
the board by 10 percent. So it provides for a

1512
01:46:41,549 --> 01:46:47,709
design flexibility. So this 10 percent, um, to most lots

1513
01:46:48,290 --> 01:46:51,309
on a 25 foot lot, this would increase the floor

1514
01:46:51,309 --> 01:46:54,349
area by about 100 square feet. So that would mean

1515
01:46:54,370 --> 01:46:58,580
the ability to have a second bathroom. In a house.

1516
01:46:58,580 --> 01:47:01,380
Um, on a, on a larger house, it could be

1517
01:47:01,481 --> 01:47:07,896
two to 300 square feet. On the floor plate. In

1518
01:47:07,896 --> 01:47:11,096
regard to the three to four and a half, that

1519
01:47:11,096 --> 01:47:14,756
increased distance, we felt it was adequate. To mitigate the

1520
01:47:15,017 --> 01:47:17,716
massing. And that four and a half would only really

1521
01:47:17,737 --> 01:47:21,618
be applicable on very wide lots. And on corners. And

1522
01:47:21,639 --> 01:47:24,338
I know we've heard tonight, you know, that it's the

1523
01:47:24,338 --> 01:47:29,218
term monster house mansion. Well, in neighbourhoods in particular, Varsity

1524
01:47:29,319 --> 01:47:34,707
view and new town. And we have mansions. So we

1525
01:47:34,728 --> 01:47:39,364
have them. They exist in the neighbourhood. Everyone accept, you

1526
01:47:39,364 --> 01:47:44,344
know, accepts them. But this exemption for coroner lots on

1527
01:47:44,344 --> 01:47:46,504
the flanking street and the SEPAC of four and a

1528
01:47:46,504 --> 01:47:49,304
half would really only provide those opportunities for the larger

1529
01:47:49,325 --> 01:47:52,344
houses on corner lots. For the average lot or the

1530
01:47:52,384 --> 01:48:01,144
interior lot, it won't provide that much extra. But when

1531
01:48:01,184 --> 01:48:02,904
I read this report, I actually thought it was just

1532
01:48:03,165 --> 01:48:08,695
corner lots we were talking about. No, all lots. It

1533
01:48:08,695 --> 01:48:14,137
is all oxygen. It is all lots. Okay. Okay. Just

1534
01:48:14,177 --> 01:48:18,857
again, so in 2022, counsel last administration to do further

1535
01:48:19,038 --> 01:48:22,454
work. And you sort of, I think you answered this

1536
01:48:22,555 --> 01:48:24,374
question for me. So I, but I just wanted to

1537
01:48:24,374 --> 01:48:27,494
ask it again. Can administrators tell us what work was

1538
01:48:27,515 --> 01:48:31,751
completed and what we learned, what was learned. And where

1539
01:48:31,932 --> 01:48:36,173
council can see those results. Great. Thank you. And through

1540
01:48:36,173 --> 01:48:38,973
you mayor block to the councillor. Leslie understand director of

1541
01:48:38,994 --> 01:48:42,093
Planning and Development. Uh, so, you know, reflecting on your

1542
01:48:42,194 --> 01:48:44,973
question and going back to 2022, we had been doing

1543
01:48:45,234 --> 01:48:47,933
our Zoning Byla review project at that time. So we

1544
01:48:47,933 --> 01:48:51,493
were going through a comprehensive update of the bylaw. We

1545
01:48:51,493 --> 01:48:54,573
were asked to do further work at that time. There

1546
01:48:54,613 --> 01:48:58,173
was the one specific one about the sewer heights at

1547
01:48:58,173 --> 01:49:00,013
that time we indicated we wouldn't be able to do

1548
01:49:00,053 --> 01:49:03,293
that with the current resources because that product was ending.

1549
01:49:03,293 --> 01:49:06,735
We were at the end of that project. However, subsequent

1550
01:49:06,735 --> 01:49:10,495
to that, um, we did have the housing accelerator fund

1551
01:49:10,535 --> 01:49:14,655
come in that prompted wide scale changes to our zoning

1552
01:49:14,836 --> 01:49:20,655
bylaw. Um, massive changes to our regulatory regime in Saskatoon,

1553
01:49:20,655 --> 01:49:24,975
particularly affecting our older neighbourhoods, uh, through those discussions there

1554
01:49:25,015 --> 01:49:29,935
was quite a bit of, um, very challenging discussions and

1555
01:49:30,036 --> 01:49:32,655
good discussions about what does our community want to see

1556
01:49:33,636 --> 01:49:37,375
in these areas. And there was also that pushback against,

1557
01:49:37,375 --> 01:49:40,015
we're going to lose our character in our older neighbourhoods

1558
01:49:40,276 --> 01:49:43,695
by making those changes. Now a wide variety of those

1559
01:49:43,735 --> 01:49:46,175
changes did go into place. So we did have the

1560
01:49:46,196 --> 01:49:50,075
opening up of our Zoning Bylaw throughout the city, uh,

1561
01:49:50,196 --> 01:49:52,895
to allow more building forms such as the four units

1562
01:49:52,996 --> 01:49:57,460
on every site. Uh, so that change has occurred. And

1563
01:49:57,500 --> 01:50:00,980
as part of our housing accelerator fund initiatives, we also

1564
01:50:01,081 --> 01:50:05,540
had a commitment to review our infill regulations. So that's

1565
01:50:05,801 --> 01:50:09,300
led to the work here today. Um, including other packages

1566
01:50:09,481 --> 01:50:12,500
that have already been before council. So I hope that

1567
01:50:12,521 --> 01:50:16,020
answers your question. It does. It does. Thank you. And

1568
01:50:16,020 --> 01:50:18,500
I know that in the conversations that we heard from

1569
01:50:18,521 --> 01:50:23,460
some of the presenters today that the, it sounds like

1570
01:50:23,460 --> 01:50:26,820
the engagement was in very well done. And I just

1571
01:50:26,921 --> 01:50:31,060
wanted to, can you speak on that? Like or the

1572
01:50:31,100 --> 01:50:34,900
information wasn't easily accessible. There was a hope variety of

1573
01:50:35,401 --> 01:50:38,980
things that was brought forward by some of the speakers

1574
01:50:39,020 --> 01:50:43,620
today. Yeah. Thank you for the question. So, um, we

1575
01:50:43,801 --> 01:50:50,580
felt the broader Public Engagement, public meetings, um, in -

1576
01:50:50,580 --> 01:50:55,031
person meetings. Because these changes could be, um, articulated on

1577
01:50:55,071 --> 01:50:57,991
our website. We felt that it wasn't needed. And we

1578
01:50:57,991 --> 01:51:01,991
have gone out and consulted with the community several times

1579
01:51:03,292 --> 01:51:09,979
from 2015. And we typically get, and I'm being frank

1580
01:51:09,979 --> 01:51:13,499
about this and I apologise. We get the same result.

1581
01:51:13,499 --> 01:51:16,539
We get the existing, a few existing residents against any

1582
01:51:16,640 --> 01:51:20,219
change. And we, you know, get the developers trying to

1583
01:51:20,219 --> 01:51:24,139
push the envelope. So we're trying again to balance this.

1584
01:51:24,139 --> 01:51:26,539
In terms of the engagement, um, yes, we could have

1585
01:51:26,539 --> 01:51:29,099
done a better job. We recently implemented a brand new

1586
01:51:29,139 --> 01:51:32,699
design or engagement platform. And that was just done in

1587
01:51:32,739 --> 01:51:39,259
August. Um, we could have certainly done a more robust,

1588
01:51:39,259 --> 01:51:43,419
more robust information. But we honestly felt that, um, changes

1589
01:51:43,459 --> 01:51:51,660
of this magnitude didn't warrant broader public engagement. And just

1590
01:51:51,700 --> 01:51:54,380
exactly what engagement was done again. I sort of was

1591
01:51:54,481 --> 01:52:00,825
confused. So we have through the half project, we collected,

1592
01:52:00,825 --> 01:52:07,161
um, I believe it was, um. Oh, 500, 500, um,

1593
01:52:08,002 --> 01:52:12,381
500 emails of interested people. And we did eBlasts to

1594
01:52:12,421 --> 01:52:19,290
them. Indicating what we were doing. We had social media,

1595
01:52:19,290 --> 01:52:23,370
um, the city social media, our communications team, um, pushed

1596
01:52:23,370 --> 01:52:32,625
them out that way. Uh. Dedicated engage page. And the

1597
01:52:32,646 --> 01:52:36,465
Public Notice was posted as per requirement on August 7th.

1598
01:52:39,945 --> 01:52:43,584
Thank you. I know that, uh, we saw a lot

1599
01:52:43,584 --> 01:52:46,564
of different drawings up here in the presentations. And I

1600
01:52:46,564 --> 01:52:50,644
was curious, like the one that it was interesting to

1601
01:52:50,684 --> 01:52:54,564
me was the example that Mr. Tarazoff showed. And I

1602
01:52:54,604 --> 01:53:01,284
just wanted to ask, based on these, the new bylaw,

1603
01:53:01,705 --> 01:53:04,324
and what he's shown, is that accurate? Is that what

1604
01:53:04,745 --> 01:53:10,644
is a possibility built with this new bylaw? You saw

1605
01:53:10,665 --> 01:53:13,044
his drawing in his presentation too. I was just curious

1606
01:53:13,084 --> 01:53:16,297
on that. Because I'm trying to figure this out myself.

1607
01:53:18,175 --> 01:53:21,434
That's a good question. What the drawings do to pick

1608
01:53:21,535 --> 01:53:25,902
is a very simple box. Built to the absolute maximum.

1609
01:53:26,771 --> 01:53:33,104
Height, sight coverage set box. So, you know, the more

1610
01:53:33,104 --> 01:53:37,304
useful drawings and part of that package where the site,

1611
01:53:37,304 --> 01:53:40,784
like the actual site plans, not necessarily elevations. Because in

1612
01:53:40,784 --> 01:53:45,538
my opinion, the elevations. They look a bit misleading just

1613
01:53:45,799 --> 01:53:49,458
the way they're done and how the, you know, how

1614
01:53:49,639 --> 01:53:53,058
the roof is oriented and it is just a big

1615
01:53:53,559 --> 01:53:57,977
blank wall. Towards the neighbouring properties. Like on a development

1616
01:53:58,017 --> 01:54:02,765
such as this with an attached garage. We would highly

1617
01:54:03,026 --> 01:54:07,549
unlikely see it look like this. Yeah. So, so there's

1618
01:54:07,890 --> 01:54:11,869
the one gentleman's video presentation said that they're, you know,

1619
01:54:11,890 --> 01:54:14,989
with the sidewalls, is there a height restriction? Like how

1620
01:54:15,029 --> 01:54:17,069
high can a person build those? Like it looked like

1621
01:54:17,109 --> 01:54:19,549
you could go quite high. So the maximum building height,

1622
01:54:19,549 --> 01:54:21,869
the established neighbourhoods to the midpoint of a peak roof

1623
01:54:21,909 --> 01:54:24,497
is eight and a half metres. So it has to

1624
01:54:24,497 --> 01:54:26,577
be below eight and a half metres. That contrast to

1625
01:54:26,918 --> 01:54:32,718
in the new neighbourhoods of 10 metres. So, um, dwellings

1626
01:54:32,739 --> 01:54:35,278
are that, you know, essentially a metre and a half

1627
01:54:35,539 --> 01:54:39,665
shorter. Or less high in the older neighbourhoods. So the

1628
01:54:39,766 --> 01:54:41,825
maximum height build is eight and a half metres or

1629
01:54:41,865 --> 01:54:46,883
10 metres. Eight and a half. Sorry. Okay. Thank you.

1630
01:54:47,144 --> 01:54:55,265
Those are my questions. Councillor Dubois. Thank you Mayor Bloch.

1631
01:54:55,265 --> 01:54:58,879
And through you two administration. So I've got a few

1632
01:54:58,879 --> 01:55:01,859
questions here. So first of all, I still need clarification.

1633
01:55:03,635 --> 01:55:06,974
On the timeline of these meetings. So we, this was

1634
01:55:07,315 --> 01:55:13,782
approved in 2015. And then what precipitated us having another

1635
01:55:14,123 --> 01:55:19,981
report in 2022. If things seem to be okay in

1636
01:55:20,021 --> 01:55:24,378
2025, we seem to not have having any issues. The

1637
01:55:24,378 --> 01:55:28,218
building was happening to high density homes are being built,

1638
01:55:28,218 --> 01:55:32,698
et cetera, et cetera. Through Siria, the chair, respond to

1639
01:55:32,738 --> 01:55:36,778
your question. So in 2022, the city undertook a comprehensive

1640
01:55:36,879 --> 01:55:40,698
zoning Bioware review. We identified a number of issues and

1641
01:55:40,698 --> 01:55:43,578
provided a number of reports this City Council, one of

1642
01:55:43,578 --> 01:55:47,818
the reviews that was identified was review of the city's

1643
01:55:47,999 --> 01:55:54,218
infill regulations, including sidewall, dorsill height, among others. So some

1644
01:55:54,319 --> 01:55:59,685
changes were made. So it was identified to look at

1645
01:56:00,906 --> 01:56:08,110
sidewall. Because. Often, and it's a lot of what we

1646
01:56:08,150 --> 01:56:13,313
heard tonight. Is it the regulation is hard to understand.

1647
01:56:14,347 --> 01:56:17,606
And it's sometimes hard to apply. So we looked at

1648
01:56:17,646 --> 01:56:22,890
it and recommended that we build in some flexibility. So

1649
01:56:22,930 --> 01:56:28,010
this change with the Zoning Bylar View, we did surveys.

1650
01:56:28,010 --> 01:56:30,090
We did a lot of Public Engagement. It was identified

1651
01:56:30,111 --> 01:56:33,798
as an issue. To look at. So at that time

1652
01:56:33,819 --> 01:56:39,232
we brought forward the proposal in 2022. That was denied,

1653
01:56:39,232 --> 01:56:42,912
um, so then move forward through the housing accelerator fund

1654
01:56:42,912 --> 01:56:47,050
amendments. And now we're in 2025. We had the consultant

1655
01:56:47,711 --> 01:56:52,340
prepare report. And through their research and their municipal scans,

1656
01:56:52,340 --> 01:56:55,140
and they did a plethora of work for us. They

1657
01:56:55,321 --> 01:56:58,340
identified that our sidewall regulations, which we are the only

1658
01:56:58,441 --> 01:57:02,900
city in Canada that have them are really unimpediment to

1659
01:57:03,001 --> 01:57:07,518
housing development. So I know we've talked about three and

1660
01:57:07,558 --> 01:57:14,238
four unit dwellings. Um, CMH, CH did their design catalogue.

1661
01:57:14,238 --> 01:57:15,998
I'm not sure. I hope I don't spur any more

1662
01:57:15,998 --> 01:57:21,198
questions. When they did their design catalogue, um, multiple smaller

1663
01:57:21,238 --> 01:57:23,838
multiple unit dwellings that could form to regulations across Western

1664
01:57:23,878 --> 01:57:27,518
Canada could not fit in Saskatoon because of the sidewall

1665
01:57:27,558 --> 01:57:30,993
area. And that is for three and four unit dwellings.

1666
01:57:30,993 --> 01:57:34,573
And Saskatoon We Group, everything together, one unit dwellings, two

1667
01:57:34,614 --> 01:57:38,273
uni dwelling semi - detached dwellings and multiple unit dwellings

1668
01:57:38,273 --> 01:57:42,508
with more than with up to four units. So that's,

1669
01:57:42,508 --> 01:57:44,588
that's why we did it this time. We met with

1670
01:57:44,628 --> 01:57:47,948
the home builders and designers on both sides of the

1671
01:57:47,988 --> 01:57:51,908
issue and came today with this compromise that really, in

1672
01:57:51,908 --> 01:57:54,028
our opinion, has less impact than the proposal did in

1673
01:57:54,129 --> 01:57:58,783
2022. Okay. Thank you. So that zoning bylaw review in

1674
01:57:58,823 --> 01:58:02,063
the U undertook in 2022. Why did you undertake that

1675
01:58:02,084 --> 01:58:05,464
review at that time. Like what, what precipitated you to

1676
01:58:05,464 --> 01:58:09,366
do a zoning bylaw review. Um, are the Zoning bylaw

1677
01:58:09,467 --> 01:58:12,646
hadn't been reviewed since 1997. It was in need of

1678
01:58:12,686 --> 01:58:16,406
an update. There was, we had a long laundry list

1679
01:58:16,406 --> 01:58:20,006
of amendments that needed to be made to bring it

1680
01:58:20,006 --> 01:58:24,086
up to, you know, accommodate new uses, look at some

1681
01:58:24,827 --> 01:58:29,046
increased regulations. Well, you might recall, we remove parking regulations

1682
01:58:29,227 --> 01:58:33,446
at the time through that project. We looked at infill,

1683
01:58:33,446 --> 01:58:36,806
just a large number of amendments. Okay. Thank you. So

1684
01:58:37,467 --> 01:58:41,046
I want to talk about the infrastructure again. These are

1685
01:58:41,307 --> 01:58:45,926
older neighbourhoods primarily that the, these, uh, these changes would

1686
01:58:45,947 --> 01:58:49,606
affect. And so the infrastructure is old and some of

1687
01:58:49,606 --> 01:58:53,206
it is outdated. And so how do we know that

1688
01:58:53,387 --> 01:58:57,606
if this goes through and we do have large homes,

1689
01:58:57,606 --> 01:59:01,746
for example, on, on corner lots, that that will, the

1690
01:59:01,746 --> 01:59:05,823
infrastructure will sustain what is being built there. And thank

1691
01:59:05,823 --> 01:59:07,743
you for the question. I believe we have the same

1692
01:59:07,764 --> 01:59:10,923
question when we talked about Garden of Grao Suites. And

1693
01:59:11,124 --> 01:59:14,623
our, um, our water and sewer engineers have modelled it

1694
01:59:15,364 --> 01:59:20,303
and replacement of housing and incremental increases in density can

1695
01:59:20,303 --> 01:59:26,121
be accommodated within our existing. Water and sewer connections. Like

1696
01:59:26,161 --> 01:59:29,481
we can accommodate the density. But oftentimes with info, we're

1697
01:59:29,521 --> 01:59:34,422
talking about replacing one home with another home. So there

1698
01:59:34,422 --> 01:59:36,962
is somewhat of an increase in density over time, but

1699
01:59:36,962 --> 01:59:40,022
in these low density neighbourhoods is typically a one -

1700
01:59:40,022 --> 01:59:43,335
to - one replacement or a one to two. Okay.

1701
01:59:43,436 --> 01:59:45,495
So you're telling me that a review is done and

1702
01:59:45,535 --> 01:59:48,535
that the infrastructure in these areas that would pertain to

1703
01:59:48,556 --> 01:59:53,255
these, uh, bilaw changes today, that they're all, um, the

1704
01:59:53,255 --> 01:59:56,435
infrastructure's all fine. There would not be any issues, not

1705
01:59:56,435 --> 01:59:58,855
any extra cost to the city in years to come.

1706
02:00:00,794 --> 02:00:07,493
Well, through the chair, that's infrastructure upgrades are, I think,

1707
02:00:07,493 --> 02:00:10,853
always on the horizon for the city, about misunderstand that.

1708
02:00:15,730 --> 02:00:18,509
Thank you. So, um, you know, this, we've talked about

1709
02:00:18,530 --> 02:00:21,069
this. I know here a few times where with our

1710
02:00:21,170 --> 02:00:24,649
infrastructure modelling that occurs in the city, our team, uh,

1711
02:00:25,490 --> 02:00:28,189
Saa's tune water and others, they do this on a

1712
02:00:28,210 --> 02:00:32,509
comprehensive basis regularly looking at what our system is able

1713
02:00:32,509 --> 02:00:36,829
to accommodate, um, what trends we are seeing coming through

1714
02:00:37,170 --> 02:00:39,789
and what that will mean for our system. And so

1715
02:00:40,450 --> 02:00:42,909
they're doing that on an iterative basis all the time

1716
02:00:43,010 --> 02:00:48,429
to understand what, what is needed. So these typical situations,

1717
02:00:48,429 --> 02:00:52,109
uh, Ms. Catholic to mentioned where it's basically a one

1718
02:00:52,149 --> 02:00:54,989
- to - one replacement. We know our system can

1719
02:00:55,090 --> 02:00:58,749
accommodate that. Some sites may have unique challenges. Mr. Johnson

1720
02:00:58,850 --> 02:01:01,869
addressed that as well. Um, that they will have to

1721
02:01:01,970 --> 02:01:05,149
respond to. And when we do see increased density coming

1722
02:01:05,170 --> 02:01:08,349
in to some of these areas, they may also face

1723
02:01:08,610 --> 02:01:12,509
a different challenge. But Council will also know you have

1724
02:01:12,530 --> 02:01:15,869
approved some Brers projects over the years where there are

1725
02:01:15,909 --> 02:01:19,469
larger infrastructure packages that are needed to address some of

1726
02:01:19,469 --> 02:01:22,669
our infrastructure in the community. So in particular, I can

1727
02:01:22,669 --> 02:01:26,029
think of the large flood projects that have been done

1728
02:01:26,930 --> 02:01:29,709
to address the storm events that we have and those

1729
02:01:29,709 --> 02:01:31,469
kinds of things. So there are things that are done

1730
02:01:31,570 --> 02:01:34,669
at the Citywide level. And there are things that are

1731
02:01:34,669 --> 02:01:38,029
needed at the site level, but we look at that

1732
02:01:38,210 --> 02:01:42,429
as a comprehensive package for infrastructure modelling at the city,

1733
02:01:42,429 --> 02:01:49,887
um, to accommodate it. Okay. Thank you. And so I'm

1734
02:01:49,908 --> 02:01:55,151
trying to wrap my head around. These bylaw changes. And

1735
02:01:55,151 --> 02:01:58,903
then half has been always thrown in there. And so

1736
02:01:59,244 --> 02:02:06,343
half is affordable housing increased density housing. It's not large

1737
02:02:06,684 --> 02:02:12,359
houses. And so I'm trying to figure out how this

1738
02:02:12,399 --> 02:02:16,000
goes together with what we're doing today. Great. Thank you

1739
02:02:16,041 --> 02:02:20,020
for the question. So, um, the housing accelerator fund is

1740
02:02:20,041 --> 02:02:25,060
really the newest prompt for these changes. We had talked

1741
02:02:25,060 --> 02:02:27,620
about the Zoning Byla review that we had done because

1742
02:02:27,660 --> 02:02:30,420
our Zoning Byla needed a real refresh. And so we

1743
02:02:30,460 --> 02:02:33,300
now have a new bylaw that we adopted or that

1744
02:02:33,300 --> 02:02:37,140
you adopted. So with the housing accelerator fund, that was

1745
02:02:37,180 --> 02:02:40,660
really an initiative, um, of the federal government to prompt

1746
02:02:40,761 --> 02:02:43,380
municipalities to look at the tools that we have in

1747
02:02:43,420 --> 02:02:47,140
our toolbox that can affect housing supply, uh, in our

1748
02:02:47,161 --> 02:02:52,420
communities. So with the housing crisis across the country, they

1749
02:02:52,460 --> 02:02:55,140
identified a package of work that could be done for

1750
02:02:55,140 --> 02:02:58,980
municipalities to look at our bylaws. Um, so part of

1751
02:02:58,980 --> 02:03:02,340
that was, um, things that could look at how we

1752
02:03:02,380 --> 02:03:05,940
develop affordable housing, um, I would say half was not

1753
02:03:06,121 --> 02:03:10,580
specific to affordable housing. It was looking at overall supply,

1754
02:03:10,580 --> 02:03:15,460
um, approaches in terms of municipal regulations in various ways.

1755
02:03:15,460 --> 02:03:19,460
So different tools, municipalities can use. But it did give

1756
02:03:19,500 --> 02:03:21,300
us an opportunity to look at how we could do

1757
02:03:21,401 --> 02:03:25,300
affordable housing. It gave us that, prompt to really look

1758
02:03:25,401 --> 02:03:29,220
at our regulations and the zoning bylaw throughout the city,

1759
02:03:29,220 --> 02:03:32,260
not specific to infill development alone. But look at all

1760
02:03:32,300 --> 02:03:34,660
of those things, um, in terms of what we can

1761
02:03:34,700 --> 02:03:38,580
do to increase the possibility for more housing supply in

1762
02:03:38,620 --> 02:03:41,940
our communities. It was really a call for municipalities to

1763
02:03:41,940 --> 02:03:45,200
look at our tools to respond to that issue. Uh,

1764
02:03:45,200 --> 02:03:48,100
so that, then one of our pieces was a specific

1765
02:03:48,121 --> 02:03:51,620
piece around infill regulations in the review of our infill

1766
02:03:51,660 --> 02:03:54,980
regulations. That gets us today. Thank you for that overview

1767
02:03:55,001 --> 02:03:58,980
of half, Ms. Anderson. So then, but I don't see

1768
02:03:59,081 --> 02:04:02,420
what we're working or discussing today how that is going

1769
02:04:02,420 --> 02:04:06,100
to increase the housing supply. Because more than likely, these

1770
02:04:06,100 --> 02:04:10,180
are going to be, um, one unit dwelling, so to

1771
02:04:10,180 --> 02:04:12,460
speak. They're not going to be, it's not going to

1772
02:04:12,460 --> 02:04:15,220
be high density housing. So it won't be, um, dealing

1773
02:04:15,220 --> 02:04:18,100
with the housing crisis that we have. So am I,

1774
02:04:18,100 --> 02:04:20,729
is that accurate what I'm, what I just said. Well,

1775
02:04:20,769 --> 02:04:23,809
I can't, I definitely see that. There is, I think

1776
02:04:23,809 --> 02:04:27,769
limited impact that will come from these changes to the

1777
02:04:27,809 --> 02:04:30,889
numbers of units that we will get overall. But this

1778
02:04:30,929 --> 02:04:35,529
is about considering our, our regulatory tools more complex than

1779
02:04:35,550 --> 02:04:38,229
they need to be for all types of housing. Um,

1780
02:04:38,229 --> 02:04:41,049
and so what we have here before you is what

1781
02:04:41,070 --> 02:04:44,569
we're trying to do is balance a demand from industry

1782
02:04:45,870 --> 02:04:50,249
for increased design flexibility increased options to respond to their

1783
02:04:50,270 --> 02:04:54,569
customers as well as try to maximize the way that

1784
02:04:54,609 --> 02:04:58,789
we can fit with our community character, because that has

1785
02:04:58,789 --> 02:05:00,489
been a long - term goal of council as well

1786
02:05:00,510 --> 02:05:03,369
as to try to maintain the character of her infill

1787
02:05:03,390 --> 02:05:05,049
neighbourhood. So we are trying to bring forward a balance

1788
02:05:06,350 --> 02:05:08,569
in this approach, but I think you're correct in that

1789
02:05:08,609 --> 02:05:13,640
this won't have a large effect on overall supply. And

1790
02:05:13,640 --> 02:05:16,520
thank you. And my last question. One of the speakers

1791
02:05:16,560 --> 02:05:19,240
mentioned that this meeting, this public hearing was advertised for

1792
02:05:19,981 --> 02:05:24,120
August 29th. Can someone an administration speak to that? Because

1793
02:05:24,120 --> 02:05:28,280
it is August 26th today. There was an error on

1794
02:05:28,461 --> 02:05:31,880
the engage page for the project that was fixed as

1795
02:05:31,901 --> 02:05:34,680
soon as Mr. Clipperton emailed us a week and a

1796
02:05:34,680 --> 02:05:38,360
half ago. But the official Public Notice that's required by

1797
02:05:38,381 --> 02:05:42,019
the city of Saskatoon, the day was correct. So the

1798
02:05:42,120 --> 02:05:44,339
engage page for the project. We speak closer to the

1799
02:05:44,339 --> 02:05:48,079
microphone. Oh, sorry. That's okay. Sorry. The engage page for

1800
02:05:48,079 --> 02:05:50,739
the project had an error on it. And we fix

1801
02:05:50,840 --> 02:05:53,199
that as soon as Mr. Clipperton let us know. But

1802
02:05:53,199 --> 02:05:57,939
the official Public Notice that's required by our Public's Notice

1803
02:05:57,979 --> 02:06:01,399
Policy was correct. Thank you for that clarification. Those are

1804
02:06:01,399 --> 02:06:06,828
my questions at this time. Thank. You. All right. We

1805
02:06:06,868 --> 02:06:10,108
still have questions from City Council. And I think we're

1806
02:06:10,108 --> 02:06:12,028
going to take a break and we will resume at

1807
02:06:12,129 --> 02:06:13,068
8 15. Thanks.

1808
02:06:43,094 --> 02:06:43,473
I don't care.

1809
02:16:40,533 --> 02:16:44,318
Councillor Pierce, the floor is yours. All right, thank you

1810
02:16:44,499 --> 02:16:44,958
your worship.

1811
02:16:55,570 --> 02:16:59,949
Thank you. So I just have got questions. You know

1812
02:16:59,949 --> 02:17:02,589
what, just one second. Good point. We need all members

1813
02:17:02,610 --> 02:17:06,349
of Council in attendance for every minute this Public Hearing.

1814
02:17:06,349 --> 02:17:08,829
So we're just gonna make sure everybody is present and

1815
02:17:08,829 --> 02:17:11,609
accounted for, I think, in Chambers. We are good, but

1816
02:17:11,609 --> 02:17:14,429
I'm just gonna double check Councillor Davies. Are you on

1817
02:17:14,429 --> 02:17:19,886
the line? I am, yep. And Councillor Donauer. Sam, yep.

1818
02:17:20,767 --> 02:17:30,143
All right, all members, Cimon. Yes. Okay. All are President

1819
02:17:30,164 --> 02:17:34,432
and accounted for. Now Councillor Pierce, four is yours. Thank

1820
02:17:34,432 --> 02:17:39,808
you. Point of order, hang on Councillor Pierce. We'll go

1821
02:17:39,808 --> 02:17:42,248
to Councillor Dubois. Thank you Mayor Bloch. Can you remind

1822
02:17:42,589 --> 02:17:45,528
counsel and the public on the timing? It's already quarter

1823
02:17:45,528 --> 02:17:48,328
after age, and I know we've got timing regulations where

1824
02:17:48,328 --> 02:17:50,328
the meeting ends and what happens if we don't finish

1825
02:17:50,669 --> 02:17:53,528
and all that. Could we remind every one of that,

1826
02:17:53,528 --> 02:17:57,288
please? Let's get a more to just update us. Yep,

1827
02:17:57,309 --> 02:17:59,768
so our procedural biolog dictates that we would stop the

1828
02:17:59,768 --> 02:18:03,048
meeting at nine o'clock p. m. However, with a two

1829
02:18:03,088 --> 02:18:05,848
- third majority vote of those present, we can extend

1830
02:18:06,029 --> 02:18:09,448
the meeting to a set time, to finish a set

1831
02:18:09,448 --> 02:18:17,897
item or whatever set. Time that council wants. It's a

1832
02:18:17,897 --> 02:18:22,200
long day. Yeah, thank you. And if they do not,

1833
02:18:22,301 --> 02:18:24,280
that means we have to return tomorrow at 1 p.

1834
02:18:24,280 --> 02:18:27,352
m., is that correct? And if we aren't done, we

1835
02:18:27,392 --> 02:18:29,352
would return at 1 p. m. Interval was the word

1836
02:18:29,352 --> 02:18:34,899
I was looking for. Okay. Am I free to resume

1837
02:18:35,720 --> 02:18:39,859
the Public Hearing now? Okay. Councillor Pierce of Floor is,

1838
02:18:39,859 --> 02:18:44,979
I think yours. All right, no pressure. My understanding is,

1839
02:18:44,979 --> 02:18:47,299
and from what I've heard tonight, the last consultation or

1840
02:18:47,339 --> 02:18:56,562
Public Engagement was 2015. That's not correct.

1841
02:18:57,844 --> 02:19:04,845
This project to review infill regulations started in 2013. With

1842
02:19:04,885 --> 02:19:09,005
the preparation of the neighbourhood level and - filled strategy.

1843
02:19:09,005 --> 02:19:13,518
Extensive consultation was done at that time. When we brought

1844
02:19:13,699 --> 02:19:19,838
the regulations forward for primary dwellings in 2015, again, extensive

1845
02:19:19,859 --> 02:19:25,907
consultation was done. When we brought forward the amendments in

1846
02:19:25,947 --> 02:19:30,547
2022 as a part of the Zoning Bylaw Review Project,

1847
02:19:30,547 --> 02:19:35,587
we also did consultation. It was online at that time

1848
02:19:36,488 --> 02:19:39,894
due to COVID. So we have been engaging on these

1849
02:19:39,995 --> 02:19:45,635
issues since 2015. The report that was done by Medal

1850
02:19:45,675 --> 02:19:54,675
and Small Housing last year, they did consultation, which is,

1851
02:19:54,675 --> 02:19:59,555
I mentioned it in my presentation. They had a steering

1852
02:19:59,555 --> 02:20:03,111
committee, they did focus groups. They did a full -

1853
02:20:03,111 --> 02:20:06,117
up survey of those people who attended. So we've been

1854
02:20:06,298 --> 02:20:11,237
consulting on that since then. With these amendments, the engagement

1855
02:20:11,658 --> 02:20:16,788
we did, or consultation. We consulted with developers and designers

1856
02:20:17,529 --> 02:20:20,308
on how we could perhaps meet in the middle to

1857
02:20:20,348 --> 02:20:24,068
bring a proposal forward on balanced to council. So we

1858
02:20:24,108 --> 02:20:28,298
met with. Several developers and builders on both sides of

1859
02:20:28,338 --> 02:20:31,578
the issue, as you have heard tonight. Okay, I'm just

1860
02:20:31,578 --> 02:20:34,278
making sure I had the fact street, because I was

1861
02:20:34,278 --> 02:20:39,338
hearing something different, obviously. My apologies. And with these amendments,

1862
02:20:40,159 --> 02:20:43,098
the engagement we did was have a dedicated engage page.

1863
02:20:43,683 --> 02:20:48,302
We did eBlasts out to half newsletter subscription, which was

1864
02:20:48,342 --> 02:20:55,502
over 500 people. We had our communications. People do social

1865
02:20:55,542 --> 02:20:59,862
media blasts. Those sorts of things. And our Public Notice

1866
02:20:59,883 --> 02:21:03,462
was on the City's Public Notice page as required by

1867
02:21:06,203 --> 02:21:10,603
the Public Notice Policy. Okay, so everything we've done is

1868
02:21:10,624 --> 02:21:16,931
basically has been basically, or mostly electronic. In nature. On

1869
02:21:17,032 --> 02:21:22,623
these specific amendments, yes. I have a concern about that,

1870
02:21:22,623 --> 02:21:25,023
but I'll leave that for later. Secondly, I wanted to

1871
02:21:25,023 --> 02:21:28,943
ask is, you know, with our stated strategy of wanting

1872
02:21:28,964 --> 02:21:32,404
more affordable housing and that sort of thing. And this

1873
02:21:32,745 --> 02:21:36,964
change is effectively, basically, looks like it's gonna be used

1874
02:21:37,065 --> 02:21:40,484
for single family - dwelling units. Does that really match

1875
02:21:40,505 --> 02:21:43,364
our strategy? Or is there a reason why we wouldn't

1876
02:21:43,364 --> 02:21:45,924
consider this for anything that is at least a two

1877
02:21:46,025 --> 02:21:48,884
or four or six unit dwelling, as opposed to a

1878
02:21:48,924 --> 02:21:51,684
single family dwelling? So that's a very good question through

1879
02:21:51,724 --> 02:21:55,364
the chair. So these changes would apply to the whole

1880
02:21:55,385 --> 02:21:58,244
gambit of primary dwellings. So those are one and two

1881
02:21:58,284 --> 02:22:06,173
unit dwellings. With a secondary suite. Two unit dwellings that

1882
02:22:06,434 --> 02:22:09,133
semi - detached. Two units and semi - detached. They

1883
02:22:09,133 --> 02:22:13,058
can also have secondary suites. And small multiple unit dwellings.

1884
02:22:14,603 --> 02:22:18,699
On sites 50 feet or greater. So this change would

1885
02:22:18,880 --> 02:22:21,979
make that whole gambit of what we consider primary dwellings

1886
02:22:22,400 --> 02:22:27,112
larger. So where this fits in. Is really in the

1887
02:22:27,133 --> 02:22:31,432
housing continuum, and I'll just, if you'll let me embellish,

1888
02:22:31,432 --> 02:22:35,984
I'll use an example. Family A. Family A lives in

1889
02:22:35,984 --> 02:22:39,385
an apartment. They want to buy a house. They buy

1890
02:22:39,566 --> 02:22:44,745
family bees house that's maybe a smaller house in an

1891
02:22:44,745 --> 02:22:49,704
older, more peripheral neighbourhood. Family B wants to build a

1892
02:22:49,704 --> 02:22:51,784
new house. They want to be close to the university.

1893
02:22:51,784 --> 02:22:54,344
They want to be close to downtown. So they buy

1894
02:22:54,344 --> 02:22:57,304
a lot and they build an infill house. So anytime

1895
02:22:57,965 --> 02:23:01,864
there's new housing, you know, it continues with that housing

1896
02:23:02,445 --> 02:23:05,400
continuum. That house that they're building knew that could have

1897
02:23:05,440 --> 02:23:09,400
a secondary suite to support them and provide additional units.

1898
02:23:09,400 --> 02:23:12,200
Perhaps the unit with the house that was demalished did

1899
02:23:12,200 --> 02:23:14,360
not have a secondary suite or a garden and garage

1900
02:23:14,400 --> 02:23:18,360
suite, because we do permit up to three units on

1901
02:23:18,400 --> 02:23:22,120
a site right now with the primary dwelling. Well, the

1902
02:23:22,120 --> 02:23:24,200
one unit dwelling with a secondary sleep plus a garden

1903
02:23:24,221 --> 02:23:28,163
in garage suite. Okay, so if we use it for

1904
02:23:28,203 --> 02:23:32,403
just a single family dwelling unit, would we consider that

1905
02:23:32,744 --> 02:23:36,163
an abuse or an abusive use of the bylaw? Because

1906
02:23:36,184 --> 02:23:40,543
I want a super mega house. And instead, it's not

1907
02:23:40,543 --> 02:23:43,843
housing more people. It's housing the same amount of people.

1908
02:23:43,843 --> 02:23:48,687
We're just living in more square footage. That's a good

1909
02:23:48,687 --> 02:23:52,900
question. But you have to look at the one unit

1910
02:23:52,900 --> 02:23:55,620
dwelling, one unit could be two people. It could be

1911
02:23:55,961 --> 02:23:58,820
12 for a multi - generational family. We don't regulate

1912
02:23:58,841 --> 02:24:02,740
those sorts of things. The change that we're asking for

1913
02:24:03,241 --> 02:24:06,980
average lots, not on coroners and not 50 feet wide,

1914
02:24:07,401 --> 02:24:11,600
will only allow for an extra 10 percent. Increase, which

1915
02:24:11,600 --> 02:24:14,720
on a 25 foot lot, an average house of about

1916
02:24:14,821 --> 02:24:18,800
800 to 800 to 9 underscore feet. That's only an

1917
02:24:18,821 --> 02:24:24,160
additional, um, 100 square foot of floor space on both

1918
02:24:24,181 --> 02:24:26,640
stories of a two - story house. That's really the

1919
02:24:27,061 --> 02:24:31,280
lion's share of infills that are going to be built.

1920
02:24:31,280 --> 02:24:34,621
That's the bonus they're going to get. Okay, so, um,

1921
02:24:35,462 --> 02:24:38,721
I'm thinking about the recent issue with the Carl Miller

1922
02:24:38,742 --> 02:24:40,841
host, and I don't know the new family owner. I

1923
02:24:40,841 --> 02:24:46,161
apologise. Would that house actually now qualify as a legitimate

1924
02:24:47,062 --> 02:24:51,981
build. Under these regulations, under this bylaw change, the chair

1925
02:24:52,021 --> 02:24:56,941
recognising that that development is under the development under the

1926
02:24:56,981 --> 02:25:00,781
appeal process. But no, that house would not comply under

1927
02:25:00,821 --> 02:25:05,516
these regulations. Okay. We have done the analysis. Okay, thank

1928
02:25:05,516 --> 02:25:15,173
you. Councillor Parker. Great, thanks. Most of my questions have

1929
02:25:15,213 --> 02:25:20,445
been answered. I think I want to. Kind of zoom

1930
02:25:20,445 --> 02:25:23,104
out here a little bit. We've kind of heard the

1931
02:25:23,144 --> 02:25:26,144
issues with the sidewall calculation. And I think this was

1932
02:25:26,184 --> 02:25:28,744
a part of your presentation, but I really want to

1933
02:25:28,744 --> 02:25:35,024
kind of come back to it. Um, what are the,

1934
02:25:35,064 --> 02:25:38,544
what are the issues caused by the sidewall calculation and

1935
02:25:38,645 --> 02:25:47,496
how is increasing it by 10 percent. Helping. Does.

1936
02:25:48,690 --> 02:25:52,757
Is it gives you a box. That's, I'll say this

1937
02:25:52,778 --> 02:25:58,904
big, sorry. When you build your house, you can allocate

1938
02:25:59,885 --> 02:26:05,224
that area, all the, all the wall that faces the

1939
02:26:05,485 --> 02:26:09,496
certain, um, the same direction. Has to not exceed your

1940
02:26:09,757 --> 02:26:14,679
maximum allowed. So, and sorry, what was the second part

1941
02:26:14,719 --> 02:26:17,719
of your question? Um, I, I want to know what

1942
02:26:17,759 --> 02:26:20,519
the issue is with the sidewall calculation. So what is

1943
02:26:20,519 --> 02:26:26,025
the problem that we're solving. By adding 10 percent to

1944
02:26:26,065 --> 02:26:30,131
the sidewall calculation. So like one of the designers spoke

1945
02:26:30,792 --> 02:26:34,303
is being able to provide a different roof line. Or

1946
02:26:34,303 --> 02:26:36,463
you get out on the site, you discover that your

1947
02:26:36,503 --> 02:26:38,863
sewer line is higher than you expected. You're able to

1948
02:26:38,964 --> 02:26:45,103
raise the house without completely redrawing the drawings. And because

1949
02:26:45,143 --> 02:26:48,056
all of these things add up. For home builders, you

1950
02:26:48,056 --> 02:26:50,476
could raise it to accommodate where the sewer actually is

1951
02:26:50,897 --> 02:26:54,778
without having to redesign the house. Okay. So how can

1952
02:26:54,778 --> 02:27:01,338
we not making exceptions for these sewer issues or how

1953
02:27:01,378 --> 02:27:06,606
come we're not. I guess changing how we calculate the

1954
02:27:06,646 --> 02:27:09,966
sidewall based on the roof. Like if it's, if a

1955
02:27:09,966 --> 02:27:12,526
flat roof would work, but a peaked roof doesn't, then

1956
02:27:12,526 --> 02:27:15,246
why aren't we just changing the sidewall calculation to make

1957
02:27:15,246 --> 02:27:19,044
it not matter what the roof looks like. Thank you

1958
02:27:19,044 --> 02:27:23,989
for the question through the chair. What the sidewall tool

1959
02:27:23,989 --> 02:27:30,915
does. Provides that design flexibility. When you get into, okay,

1960
02:27:31,576 --> 02:27:34,809
well X, Y, and Z are exempt. Well, Y or

1961
02:27:34,849 --> 02:27:41,587
X, Y, and Z exact. Or, you know, the client,

1962
02:27:41,587 --> 02:27:45,027
for example, doesn't want a flat roof because there's certain

1963
02:27:45,067 --> 02:27:48,627
issues with it. What the sidal areas is, it's a

1964
02:27:48,627 --> 02:27:52,402
tool that can be applied. To all the thousands of

1965
02:27:52,983 --> 02:27:59,114
infill sites within the city. Without having our, without having

1966
02:27:59,114 --> 02:28:02,074
that room for interpretation. Well, this is included in, that's

1967
02:28:02,074 --> 02:28:05,354
included. Or you have to build flat roof houses on

1968
02:28:05,354 --> 02:28:09,259
this street or those sorts of things, I hope. I'm

1969
02:28:09,299 --> 02:28:13,419
explaining this properly, but it's the accepted tool within the

1970
02:28:13,419 --> 02:28:17,648
development community by which to design the houses. So we

1971
02:28:17,669 --> 02:28:19,888
could change the way we, sure we could use another

1972
02:28:20,149 --> 02:28:21,728
tool or change the way we do it. But this

1973
02:28:21,728 --> 02:28:25,468
is what we've been doing. It has been successful, but

1974
02:28:25,589 --> 02:28:28,288
the extra 10 percent we're proposing today is for that

1975
02:28:28,469 --> 02:28:34,288
flexibility. Because there's two sides. There's the residents that want

1976
02:28:34,309 --> 02:28:38,324
to new house. They want to build. They're spending substantial

1977
02:28:38,364 --> 02:28:41,562
money. And they want to build something that's nice in

1978
02:28:41,562 --> 02:28:45,382
most cases. Like we can't regulate. Ugly houses. And we

1979
02:28:45,382 --> 02:28:48,662
all don't agree with an ugly houses. But by using

1980
02:28:48,702 --> 02:28:53,302
this tool, we're not starting from scratch. Because through my

1981
02:28:53,302 --> 02:28:58,102
experience, when we start from scratch and the speakers can

1982
02:28:58,123 --> 02:29:01,702
attest to that it's what about this, what about that?

1983
02:29:01,702 --> 02:29:03,782
Then we draw it up. This doesn't work. That doesn't

1984
02:29:03,782 --> 02:29:06,342
work. We know this tool works, but we just want

1985
02:29:06,342 --> 02:29:13,035
to add that flexibility. I appreciate that answer. Um. Uh,

1986
02:29:13,056 --> 02:29:15,195
there's been a bit of discussion about kind of when

1987
02:29:15,296 --> 02:29:19,075
these infill regulations, uh, were created or are kind of

1988
02:29:19,136 --> 02:29:21,275
came in. It was based on a lot of Public

1989
02:29:21,296 --> 02:29:26,475
Engagement. Was the sidewall calculation, the only kind of thing

1990
02:29:26,515 --> 02:29:29,755
was that was added to these infill regulations and whether

1991
02:29:29,755 --> 02:29:31,755
it was 2013 or 2015, I'm not sure what the

1992
02:29:31,776 --> 02:29:34,955
actual date was. But was the sidewall calculation, the only

1993
02:29:34,955 --> 02:29:39,115
addition that was added that would restrict the massing of

1994
02:29:39,456 --> 02:29:47,234
infill housing. Um, through the chair, yes. I believe, yeah,

1995
02:29:47,335 --> 02:29:49,714
that, that was the one that dealt with the massing.

1996
02:29:49,714 --> 02:29:52,034
And in the report that the architects at that time

1997
02:29:52,135 --> 02:30:01,426
prepared, they proposed something different. And then when, when the

1998
02:30:01,466 --> 02:30:03,666
administration and the working group got a hold of it,

1999
02:30:03,666 --> 02:30:07,026
that's when the sidewall was calculated. We did a number

2000
02:30:07,026 --> 02:30:10,626
of things though back to 2015. We removed the restriction

2001
02:30:11,047 --> 02:30:14,466
on Lot width and category one neighbourhoods so that houses

2002
02:30:14,487 --> 02:30:18,946
could be built on 25 foot lots. We introduced porch

2003
02:30:18,986 --> 02:30:21,266
encroachment into the required front yard so that people could

2004
02:30:21,306 --> 02:30:25,090
build porches. There was, there was a number of things

2005
02:30:25,431 --> 02:30:27,130
that were done. It just, yeah, you don't have to

2006
02:30:27,130 --> 02:30:29,330
list off everything. But it was, yeah, it was to

2007
02:30:29,370 --> 02:30:32,690
address the massing. Okay. That report was about character and

2008
02:30:32,711 --> 02:30:38,302
massing was one component of it. Okay. Um. I guess

2009
02:30:39,123 --> 02:30:42,942
what are, and I think this has been spoken about

2010
02:30:43,363 --> 02:30:45,742
kind of in bits and pieces. How do we kind

2011
02:30:45,742 --> 02:30:49,982
of restrict or what are the other tools that we

2012
02:30:50,022 --> 02:30:53,982
have that restrict massing, um, or restrict the size of

2013
02:30:55,203 --> 02:30:58,010
houses, buildings that can go on. Thank you for the

2014
02:30:58,191 --> 02:31:02,370
question. So, um, on a site, we have setbacks. So

2015
02:31:02,511 --> 02:31:06,989
front yard setback, rare yards that back. An interior lot,

2016
02:31:06,989 --> 02:31:09,812
you need six metres in the front. Seven and a

2017
02:31:09,812 --> 02:31:12,820
half metres in the back. On each side. You need

2018
02:31:12,860 --> 02:31:15,460
a minimum of 0. 75 metres, but that is the

2019
02:31:15,561 --> 02:31:20,508
minimum and oftentimes houses are built. Sometimes with wider setbacks.

2020
02:31:20,895 --> 02:31:23,594
We do have a building height of eight and a

2021
02:31:23,594 --> 02:31:27,799
half metres to the peak of a peak droof. Um,

2022
02:31:29,500 --> 02:31:32,279
flat roofs, we have a regulation that's in the zoning

2023
02:31:32,300 --> 02:31:34,439
bylaw. And you can ask me online how that works

2024
02:31:34,780 --> 02:31:38,739
because it's in a similar vein of sidewall area. Um,

2025
02:31:39,260 --> 02:31:44,745
and then we allow for 40 percent site coverage. As

2026
02:31:44,785 --> 02:31:46,985
a maximum, but just, just to let you know, like

2027
02:31:47,966 --> 02:31:50,985
oftentimes it's very few cases where houses are actually built

2028
02:31:51,025 --> 02:31:56,128
to that 40 percent maximum. Usually, you know, I've done

2029
02:31:56,229 --> 02:31:59,888
a lot of analysis on infills. And, you know, typically

2030
02:31:59,909 --> 02:32:06,859
even on a large house year 30, 35. Okay. Um.

2031
02:32:11,213 --> 02:32:14,232
One question I think I have about the flanking street

2032
02:32:14,333 --> 02:32:19,032
exemption. I think most of the images that were shown

2033
02:32:19,373 --> 02:32:20,592
in most of the images that I can kind of

2034
02:32:20,592 --> 02:32:29,314
like draw to mind quite quickly, most of the. Area

2035
02:32:29,354 --> 02:32:33,794
that's being used just for, um, it's for street facing,

2036
02:32:33,794 --> 02:32:40,186
uh, garages. Have we. Had any concern or addressed any

2037
02:32:40,287 --> 02:32:46,106
concerns that this will lead to more vehicle pedestrian conflicts.

2038
02:32:47,628 --> 02:32:50,887
Along like sidewalks? Like every time that we put a

2039
02:32:50,908 --> 02:32:53,687
garage or we put a driveway that crosses the sidewalk,

2040
02:32:53,687 --> 02:33:01,107
we're increasing the chance of pedestrian vehicle conflict. That's a

2041
02:33:01,107 --> 02:33:04,867
good, that's a good question. Um, I know the construction.

2042
02:33:07,119 --> 02:33:14,445
And, sorry. What's that department? Sorry. Construction and design. Okay.

2043
02:33:14,546 --> 02:33:20,285
Construction is designed is currently reviewing the driveway crossing bylaw.

2044
02:33:21,244 --> 02:33:27,683
Right now. So, um, every time the driveway crossing, um,

2045
02:33:27,964 --> 02:33:31,303
the homeowner developer has to get a permit for a

2046
02:33:31,343 --> 02:33:34,869
new crossing that wasn't. Wasn't there. So they're reviewing that

2047
02:33:34,869 --> 02:33:37,509
process. Okay. So that concern would be addressed outside of

2048
02:33:37,509 --> 02:33:43,029
this. That's correct. Okay. Um, yeah, I think that's my

2049
02:33:43,130 --> 02:33:48,644
questions. Thanks very much. Councillor McDonald. Thank you Madam Mayor

2050
02:33:48,665 --> 02:33:54,696
and through you. So for the sidewall attached garages would

2051
02:33:54,696 --> 02:33:57,656
count towards a sidewall if they're on the side. That's

2052
02:33:57,656 --> 02:34:01,852
correct. But detached garages don't have their own cybal calculations.

2053
02:34:04,227 --> 02:34:07,886
Detached garages aren't subject to sidewall calculations. The maximum size

2054
02:34:08,947 --> 02:34:14,606
of a garage in the Citywide is 87 square metres.

2055
02:34:14,606 --> 02:34:16,926
And the maximum height is five metres to the peak.

2056
02:34:20,557 --> 02:34:25,896
And so detached garage is not part of the site

2057
02:34:25,936 --> 02:34:29,336
coverage percentage. They are in addition to that Zycover percentage.

2058
02:34:30,367 --> 02:34:33,306
Correct. Um, the psychoberge percentage for the house is one

2059
02:34:33,346 --> 02:34:36,906
number and garages along with the maximum square footage or

2060
02:34:36,906 --> 02:34:41,684
subject to a rear yard coverage. Regulation as well. Okay.

2061
02:34:42,105 --> 02:34:44,724
Um, and then what is the average lot size in

2062
02:34:44,724 --> 02:34:52,051
the established neighbourhoods. That's a really good question. Um, common

2063
02:34:52,072 --> 02:34:55,411
lot sizes is probably an easier way to answer that.

2064
02:34:55,411 --> 02:34:58,611
Um, and the category one neighbourhood so your older neighbourhood

2065
02:34:58,651 --> 02:35:03,890
city park, New town, um. Smallest again would be 7.

2066
02:35:03,911 --> 02:35:08,899
5 metres or 25 feet. 37 and a half feet.

2067
02:35:08,899 --> 02:35:10,659
So which is a lot in a half and 50

2068
02:35:10,680 --> 02:35:15,360
foot. In the category two neighbourhoods, um, they're predominantly 50

2069
02:35:15,400 --> 02:35:21,326
foot lots. So in the category one, um, areas where

2070
02:35:21,347 --> 02:35:23,526
they're about, you said seven metres, seven and a half

2071
02:35:23,526 --> 02:35:28,149
metres. Yeah. The narrow ones, yeah. Side set back exemption

2072
02:35:28,330 --> 02:35:32,140
really doesn't apply to these lots. Because you would be

2073
02:35:32,180 --> 02:35:33,900
building a host that would be like three metres wide.

2074
02:35:36,487 --> 02:35:40,706
Yeah. That's correct. Okay. So the sidewall in those areas.

2075
02:35:41,197 --> 02:35:45,016
Yeah. Like that exemption doesn't do anything for the majority,

2076
02:35:45,016 --> 02:35:48,826
I would say probably of our established neighbourhood laws. Well,

2077
02:35:48,847 --> 02:35:55,226
anything for generally speaking 40 metres or less you could,

2078
02:35:55,226 --> 02:35:58,986
you could have an exemption. Oftentimes the way the house

2079
02:35:59,247 --> 02:36:02,266
is designed at the front you would have like a,

2080
02:36:02,266 --> 02:36:05,335
an attached porch or a vestibule at the front. That

2081
02:36:05,436 --> 02:36:07,015
might be set back four and a half metres from

2082
02:36:07,436 --> 02:36:09,415
what the property line. And then the back you might

2083
02:36:09,415 --> 02:36:13,365
put a back porch. So on like not a large

2084
02:36:13,386 --> 02:36:15,045
lot, but kind of a medium size lot. You could

2085
02:36:15,045 --> 02:36:19,555
do those articulations to take advantage of that. Yeah. But

2086
02:36:19,816 --> 02:36:22,995
yeah, you'd be happy to shift to only allow one

2087
02:36:23,016 --> 02:36:27,941
side. Yeah. This exemption. And I don't design wise. Does

2088
02:36:27,941 --> 02:36:34,527
that actually work. It can work. Yeah. Okay. Um, you

2089
02:36:34,527 --> 02:36:39,167
said, uh, establish neighbourhood infill heights are 8. 5 metres

2090
02:36:39,268 --> 02:36:41,887
and a new areas are 10 metres. That's correct. Is

2091
02:36:41,927 --> 02:36:46,287
this common amongst other jurisdictions that newer areas have different

2092
02:36:46,468 --> 02:36:50,420
high restrictions than establish neighbourhoods. Uh, yeah, it is quite

2093
02:36:50,521 --> 02:36:54,340
common across Western Canada. I mean, I know in Calgary,

2094
02:36:54,340 --> 02:36:57,140
the new neighbourhoods, the maximum height is 11 metres, which

2095
02:36:57,241 --> 02:37:01,780
is step substantially taller than us. And I just ask

2096
02:37:01,780 --> 02:37:03,860
that you get a little closer to your microphone. Thank

2097
02:37:03,860 --> 02:37:07,460
you. An older neighborhood's like Winnipeg. They also have a

2098
02:37:07,561 --> 02:37:11,647
height limit that's lower than their new neighbourhoods. Is that

2099
02:37:12,228 --> 02:37:18,758
for aesthetic reasons only. Yeah, for the, for the character,

2100
02:37:18,758 --> 02:37:25,718
um, so although there are taller, older three - story

2101
02:37:25,718 --> 02:37:28,738
houses in the older neighbourhoods that are above that, you

2102
02:37:28,738 --> 02:37:31,878
know, generally speaking, eight and a half metres can accommodate

2103
02:37:32,539 --> 02:37:35,896
a very nice two - story house. Um, and even

2104
02:37:35,936 --> 02:37:40,136
in the areas that are predominantly bungalows, like, um, Adelaide

2105
02:37:40,176 --> 02:37:42,856
Churchill and those sorts of things, the bungalows are so

2106
02:37:42,856 --> 02:37:46,296
low. So, um, the eight and a half isn't as

2107
02:37:46,296 --> 02:37:48,616
substantial as it is. It is, it would be till

2108
02:37:48,637 --> 02:37:53,708
10. Um, can you just talk a little bit about

2109
02:37:54,289 --> 02:38:01,309
who middle is. And where like what they do. That's

2110
02:38:01,309 --> 02:38:03,229
a good question. I'm going to ask Ms. Gotman to

2111
02:38:03,269 --> 02:38:04,294
come up and answer. That.

2112
02:38:15,201 --> 02:38:18,948
Put on the spot. Christine Gettman planning in development. Middle

2113
02:38:18,948 --> 02:38:21,748
and small housing where the partnership of firms that were

2114
02:38:21,748 --> 02:38:24,708
hired to do our infill review study. Middle is a

2115
02:38:24,708 --> 02:38:29,028
firm out of Calgary. They primarily work in middle housing,

2116
02:38:29,028 --> 02:38:34,228
which is essentially townhome style, um, two unit dwellings, that

2117
02:38:34,228 --> 02:38:37,348
type of development. They do a lot of development themselves,

2118
02:38:37,348 --> 02:38:39,828
but they're also now supporting a lot of municipalities and

2119
02:38:39,828 --> 02:38:42,284
looking at this kind of work. Small housing is a

2120
02:38:42,324 --> 02:38:44,444
firm out of BC, and they do similar work. So

2121
02:38:44,705 --> 02:38:47,804
they partnered up to help us. So these two companies

2122
02:38:48,225 --> 02:38:51,884
have quite a bit of background with other municipalities and

2123
02:38:51,924 --> 02:38:54,684
what other places are doing with their restrictions and things

2124
02:38:54,684 --> 02:38:57,564
like that. Yep, absolutely. Middle in particular has done a

2125
02:38:57,564 --> 02:39:01,324
lot of work with Calgary. Regina, Edmonton, Winnipeg. They've done

2126
02:39:01,364 --> 02:39:03,484
a lot of work with other municipalities. So that was

2127
02:39:03,484 --> 02:39:06,124
one of the reasons we also focused on them as

2128
02:39:06,124 --> 02:39:08,625
well to help us with us. And for the site,

2129
02:39:08,726 --> 02:39:12,706
we'll coverage their recommendation was to remove it completely. They

2130
02:39:12,807 --> 02:39:15,266
did go down that road of that recommendation. They didn't

2131
02:39:15,306 --> 02:39:18,706
recommend, um, a replacement in particular, but they did recommend

2132
02:39:18,746 --> 02:39:22,226
that it was an impediment as Ms. Kutosic Toth has

2133
02:39:22,226 --> 02:39:29,910
mentioned to development. Did they recommend any alternatives. They brought

2134
02:39:30,171 --> 02:39:34,550
forward a number of, um, approaches that other municipalities use,

2135
02:39:34,550 --> 02:39:37,270
but they didn't recommend for us a specific approach that

2136
02:39:37,310 --> 02:39:43,561
we should look at. Did they. Within those suggestions where

2137
02:39:43,742 --> 02:39:46,601
they're rationales as to why they work better as like

2138
02:39:46,641 --> 02:39:50,041
a layered restriction on top of already having setbacks high

2139
02:39:50,081 --> 02:39:57,153
restriction site coverage. Just to clarify your question. Are you,

2140
02:39:57,153 --> 02:40:00,673
are you saying were they suggesting these other approaches? Because

2141
02:40:00,673 --> 02:40:04,513
they'd be more suited than our approach. I think one

2142
02:40:04,513 --> 02:40:06,353
of the cons, sorry, like one of the comments earlier,

2143
02:40:06,353 --> 02:40:11,793
I think, um, referenced square footage over a site wall,

2144
02:40:11,793 --> 02:40:16,193
um, as another kind of layer of regulation. So I

2145
02:40:16,193 --> 02:40:19,293
was just wondering if they had recommendations like that, um,

2146
02:40:19,414 --> 02:40:24,259
over the sidewall. Where we already have site coverage. We

2147
02:40:24,259 --> 02:40:27,899
already have high restrictions. We already have setbacks. Was another

2148
02:40:28,400 --> 02:40:31,579
layer, like we're, any of the other recommendations that would

2149
02:40:31,619 --> 02:40:38,638
be layered on this. Um, in their view. More straightforward

2150
02:40:38,739 --> 02:40:45,060
or easy or just like less cumbersome. They didn't give

2151
02:40:45,100 --> 02:40:48,900
us a specific recommendation. They did suggest that other municipalities

2152
02:40:48,940 --> 02:40:51,700
have these other approaches. Um, some of them have been

2153
02:40:51,740 --> 02:40:54,580
mentioned here tonight. Um, they would be layered on top

2154
02:40:54,580 --> 02:40:59,380
of things like site coverage, setbacks, height, all of them

2155
02:40:59,380 --> 02:41:01,940
seem to have those in common as well. Um, but

2156
02:41:02,041 --> 02:41:04,660
they didn't necessarily say one approach was better than the

2157
02:41:04,660 --> 02:41:06,740
other. They just listed these are some of the other

2158
02:41:06,841 --> 02:41:11,315
options you can explore. And that sidewald was really quite

2159
02:41:11,496 --> 02:41:15,075
complex. And again, as you've heard many times in impediment

2160
02:41:15,115 --> 02:41:19,761
to development. So. So what those recommendations we decided to

2161
02:41:19,982 --> 02:41:24,761
stay with sidewall and just give it an extra 10

2162
02:41:24,761 --> 02:41:27,401
percent. Or did we actually explore any of the other

2163
02:41:27,422 --> 02:41:30,761
recommendations? We did through that work with middle, explore those

2164
02:41:30,761 --> 02:41:34,841
other options. And as Ms. Catosic Tothos mentioned, it was

2165
02:41:34,862 --> 02:41:38,576
a matter of starting from scratch. Having to work through

2166
02:41:38,837 --> 02:41:41,456
what that could look like versus sidewall is something that

2167
02:41:41,957 --> 02:41:45,012
our building community is familiar with. And we can make

2168
02:41:45,113 --> 02:41:48,212
amendments to that which provided that flexibility to allow us

2169
02:41:48,252 --> 02:41:50,372
to move forward. So that's why we decided to stick

2170
02:41:50,412 --> 02:41:54,043
with a sidewall approach. Okay, thank you. I think those

2171
02:41:54,083 --> 02:41:58,760
are all my questions. I don't see any of the

2172
02:41:58,760 --> 02:42:00,620
lights on. I'm just going to check online. Is the

2173
02:42:00,620 --> 02:42:09,521
one online that has any questions. I'm not hearing

2174
02:42:10,102 --> 02:42:13,121
any, I still have just a couple just to make

2175
02:42:13,121 --> 02:42:16,721
sure I understand the piece that I heard about the

2176
02:42:16,721 --> 02:42:18,881
four and a half metre setback. I just want to

2177
02:42:18,881 --> 02:42:20,701
understand, cause I was going to ask the question, but

2178
02:42:20,701 --> 02:42:23,841
what happens once that four and a half metres is

2179
02:42:24,182 --> 02:42:27,441
met. And it's allowed to go further back into the

2180
02:42:27,542 --> 02:42:35,046
lot. And I think massing rules. Yes. You understand it

2181
02:42:35,046 --> 02:42:40,326
correctly. So, um, that portion four and a half percent

2182
02:42:40,427 --> 02:42:43,446
wouldn't count insidewall, but the size of the dwelling would

2183
02:42:43,486 --> 02:42:47,262
be limited to 40 percent site coverage. And it would

2184
02:42:47,302 --> 02:42:51,149
be inclusive of the amount that would happen. After the

2185
02:42:51,330 --> 02:42:54,329
four and a half metre setback. The whole building. The

2186
02:42:54,329 --> 02:42:57,069
whole building, no matter where it is. Okay. That, that,

2187
02:42:57,109 --> 02:43:01,109
that's good. Um, this sidewall issue is still, I think

2188
02:43:01,109 --> 02:43:05,229
perplexing to some of us because, uh, you know, I

2189
02:43:05,269 --> 02:43:08,989
read that we don't, uh, typically see this in Canada.

2190
02:43:08,989 --> 02:43:10,589
Did I hear it correctly that we may be the

2191
02:43:10,589 --> 02:43:14,806
only jurisdiction that has sidewall calculation. Um, through the chair.

2192
02:43:14,806 --> 02:43:16,806
Yes. That's correct. We're the only city that we know

2193
02:43:16,846 --> 02:43:20,166
of that uses it. And we've done an extensive municipal

2194
02:43:20,347 --> 02:43:27,128
scout. Why do you think sidewall is important. Thank you

2195
02:43:27,128 --> 02:43:30,888
for the question. Sidewall does mitigate the massing and ensures

2196
02:43:30,928 --> 02:43:35,131
that it houses are. You know, compatible in terms of

2197
02:43:35,312 --> 02:43:41,558
size with the existing built form. But again, character built

2198
02:43:41,979 --> 02:43:46,930
form size of dwellings. It's all block specific. Right? So,

2199
02:43:46,930 --> 02:43:50,313
you know, we, this, this is a tool. That, you

2200
02:43:50,313 --> 02:43:51,693
know, we failed as a very important to the community.

2201
02:43:52,388 --> 02:43:54,607
We want to retain it, but we just wanted to

2202
02:43:54,647 --> 02:43:59,887
add flexibility in certain circumstances like corner sites and to

2203
02:43:59,887 --> 02:44:04,425
allow that bonus overall. And one, I think I just

2204
02:44:04,526 --> 02:44:07,305
have one final question. It might be from a Sanderson.

2205
02:44:08,812 --> 02:44:14,071
I heard tonight that we are in consideration of some

2206
02:44:15,772 --> 02:44:19,431
change here to support design, to support some of the

2207
02:44:19,932 --> 02:44:23,351
infill for single family homes. And often homes that are

2208
02:44:23,391 --> 02:44:27,973
quite large. Is that, and yet I've heard you, uh,

2209
02:44:28,574 --> 02:44:31,913
also speak to, you know, the single family homes with

2210
02:44:31,934 --> 02:44:34,953
a suite in the basement, uh, the larger homes with

2211
02:44:34,993 --> 02:44:36,713
two suites that have a garage suite and the rest

2212
02:44:36,713 --> 02:44:42,068
of it. Who is this for. In your view, what

2213
02:44:42,089 --> 02:44:45,188
is the primary reason that we are having this in

2214
02:44:45,188 --> 02:44:50,471
front of us tonight. In my opinion. This is for

2215
02:44:50,572 --> 02:44:53,835
anybody that wants to build a house. In our existing

2216
02:44:53,936 --> 02:44:59,246
neighbourhoods. To be able to have some flexibility to get

2217
02:45:00,387 --> 02:45:04,550
the house they want in the neighbourhood they want. And

2218
02:45:04,590 --> 02:45:08,870
so. And also to provide that flexibility on larger sites

2219
02:45:09,291 --> 02:45:14,150
on the corner where perhaps people want to build larger

2220
02:45:14,190 --> 02:45:18,550
homes. And we can drive through many neighbourhoods through town,

2221
02:45:18,550 --> 02:45:22,270
a Varsity view we have representatives tonight City Park. We

2222
02:45:22,270 --> 02:45:25,670
do have larger. We do have sites for larger homes.

2223
02:45:25,670 --> 02:45:30,950
We accommodate them throughout the city. This will just potentially

2224
02:45:31,051 --> 02:45:34,710
allow a larger home on a corner site in our

2225
02:45:34,750 --> 02:45:41,174
older neighbourhoods. I guess when you say a larger home,

2226
02:45:41,174 --> 02:45:45,890
could it be homes plural. Absolutely. It could be for

2227
02:45:46,231 --> 02:45:49,330
units as of right. Uh, I think that everything we've

2228
02:45:49,370 --> 02:45:52,990
talked about tonight makes us seem to be mostly, you

2229
02:45:52,990 --> 02:45:55,330
know, talking about areas that are building very large single

2230
02:45:55,431 --> 02:46:01,010
family homes and not necessarily advancing the overall housing objectives

2231
02:46:01,911 --> 02:46:05,570
that we pass through the housing accelerator fund. So certainly

2232
02:46:05,591 --> 02:46:09,410
on a corner site, we could get a one, one

2233
02:46:09,591 --> 02:46:12,917
or two unit dwelling with sweets in them. You know,

2234
02:46:13,418 --> 02:46:18,916
two that would house. Two families or four families. Okay.

2235
02:46:18,916 --> 02:46:22,596
And then just one quick question. The home builders are

2236
02:46:22,937 --> 02:46:28,036
requesting, I guess, regardless of what happens, the conversation continue

2237
02:46:28,377 --> 02:46:32,036
about sidewalls. What's your view on that? Are we potentially

2238
02:46:32,537 --> 02:46:34,676
done talking about this for a while or is there

2239
02:46:34,716 --> 02:46:37,987
more to be done? Um. I think I'm going to

2240
02:46:38,048 --> 02:46:42,027
let Ms. Anderson talk a lot, last one. Sorry. That

2241
02:46:42,027 --> 02:46:49,223
was a rough question. Thank you. Um, you know, I

2242
02:46:49,223 --> 02:46:52,343
think that's a, you know, an interesting question to deal

2243
02:46:52,383 --> 02:46:56,823
with. So we can continue talking about sidewall, um, as

2244
02:46:56,823 --> 02:46:59,623
you've just heard, sidewall has been around for a while.

2245
02:46:59,623 --> 02:47:03,223
We've been using it. These adjustments will help make some

2246
02:47:03,884 --> 02:47:08,183
flexibility in the options for people. Um, you know, so

2247
02:47:08,364 --> 02:47:11,303
what I heard from, um, Ms. Burgess was a desire

2248
02:47:11,303 --> 02:47:14,903
to look at whether there are other options than sidewall.

2249
02:47:15,897 --> 02:47:19,296
And maybe I got that wrong. I'm not sure. But

2250
02:47:19,296 --> 02:47:21,876
that was kind of how I interpreted it. So we

2251
02:47:21,977 --> 02:47:24,116
can look at other options. You know, we can do

2252
02:47:24,116 --> 02:47:26,996
that just through the regular meetings that we have with

2253
02:47:27,036 --> 02:47:29,796
the home builders. Um, but I think from a perspective

2254
02:47:30,137 --> 02:47:33,876
of the work that's been done today and the direction

2255
02:47:33,916 --> 02:47:36,676
that we've had, we're kind of at the end of

2256
02:47:36,937 --> 02:47:41,076
possibilities in this realm here. Um, so, you know, we

2257
02:47:41,076 --> 02:47:44,516
could go out and do more engagement, for example, we're

2258
02:47:44,516 --> 02:47:47,716
likely not going to hear drastically different responses from either

2259
02:47:47,737 --> 02:47:52,596
side. This has been very consistent over the years. So,

2260
02:47:52,596 --> 02:47:55,556
you know, we're not, we're not suggesting that there would

2261
02:47:55,556 --> 02:48:00,516
be additional new information gained through further engagement. And we

2262
02:48:00,516 --> 02:48:02,276
could spend as much money or in as much time

2263
02:48:02,316 --> 02:48:04,356
as we want to do that engagement. And we're likely

2264
02:48:04,356 --> 02:48:07,636
to hear the same things again. There will be ongoing

2265
02:48:07,737 --> 02:48:11,716
discussions about development trends, development patterns, need for zoning bylaw

2266
02:48:11,716 --> 02:48:14,356
amendments over the years as a natural course of business

2267
02:48:14,377 --> 02:48:21,462
as well. Thank you very much. We've concluded questions. It's

2268
02:48:21,643 --> 02:48:23,542
time for, com, I think this is the time for

2269
02:48:23,563 --> 02:48:29,748
comments. I think we have to pass a few other

2270
02:48:29,769 --> 02:48:33,028
things first. Can I get someone to move a resolution

2271
02:48:33,129 --> 02:48:37,108
to receive the reports moved by Councillor McDonald and seconded

2272
02:48:37,148 --> 02:48:42,201
by Councillor Jeffries? Does anyone opposed. That carries. And a

2273
02:48:42,201 --> 02:48:44,921
resolution to close the hearing, uh, move by Council Keller

2274
02:48:45,182 --> 02:48:50,980
and seconded by Councillor Dubois. Is anyone opposed. That carries?

2275
02:48:50,980 --> 02:48:56,324
This is our opportunity prior to second reading. To provide

2276
02:48:56,585 --> 02:49:00,307
comments on. This hearing.

2277
02:49:06,806 --> 02:49:16,722
Who's ready to go first? Councillor Ford. Thank you

2278
02:49:16,903 --> 02:49:20,482
Mayor Bloch. Um, yeah, I'm not going to support this

2279
02:49:20,522 --> 02:49:24,362
motion. I think that they're, but I do want to

2280
02:49:24,362 --> 02:49:29,243
thank everybody for their presentations today. Um, I feel that

2281
02:49:29,283 --> 02:49:35,232
this does change the character in an established neighbourhood. I

2282
02:49:35,272 --> 02:49:40,432
don't necessarily think that in fill this type of infill

2283
02:49:41,173 --> 02:49:48,344
doesn't increase density and probably or affordability. Then with the

2284
02:49:48,344 --> 02:49:50,584
regards to the developments, I think that there would be

2285
02:49:50,845 --> 02:49:57,716
shadowing, reduced sunlight, privacy. I think the larger footprint also

2286
02:49:58,217 --> 02:50:00,756
does take away trees as one of the residents brought

2287
02:50:00,777 --> 02:50:04,356
forward and that possibly there could be some drainage issues.

2288
02:50:04,356 --> 02:50:06,596
And then other people have talked about fire and safety

2289
02:50:06,617 --> 02:50:10,996
issues when you have these big buildings and how they

2290
02:50:11,036 --> 02:50:15,156
could result in a problem with our fire protection services

2291
02:50:15,577 --> 02:50:20,400
and dealing with them. Um, but primarily my residents don't

2292
02:50:20,421 --> 02:50:24,160
want it. And, um, and, you know, and the data

2293
02:50:25,141 --> 02:50:30,444
that was presented shows, it's not needed. The existing bylaw

2294
02:50:30,484 --> 02:50:32,501
seems to be working fine. So I will not be

2295
02:50:32,522 --> 02:50:38,652
supporting this motion. We'll go now to Councillor Donauer online.

2296
02:50:42,026 --> 02:50:45,534
Thank you, your worship. Uh, I am going to support

2297
02:50:46,035 --> 02:50:49,214
the recommendations before us. And to be honest, I wish

2298
02:50:49,235 --> 02:50:56,743
they were going further. I think this is a compromise.

2299
02:50:56,743 --> 02:50:59,143
I, I look at the report and it admits that

2300
02:50:59,804 --> 02:51:02,423
Sill Height is not a common practice, but it's happening

2301
02:51:02,684 --> 02:51:06,983
in Saskatoon. It admits that side well calculation is not

2302
02:51:06,983 --> 02:51:10,023
typical. So in fact, we're the only say that we

2303
02:51:10,063 --> 02:51:12,583
can find that even does it. It's confusing. I heard

2304
02:51:12,924 --> 02:51:16,263
three speakers tonight on both sides of the issues, including

2305
02:51:16,444 --> 02:51:20,263
a builder who supports it. Say this is a confusing

2306
02:51:20,303 --> 02:51:22,263
issue. And good luck to you if you can understand

2307
02:51:22,284 --> 02:51:25,207
it. I don't think it's right for us to have

2308
02:51:25,308 --> 02:51:29,939
regulations. That the average homeowner when they're building doesn't have

2309
02:51:29,939 --> 02:51:35,804
a hope of understanding. Um, so, you know, I think

2310
02:51:35,804 --> 02:51:39,164
we've got some work to do to make our infill

2311
02:51:39,204 --> 02:51:44,094
regulations clearer. But I see this as, as a step

2312
02:51:44,115 --> 02:51:51,112
forward and a compromise. I think if we, uh, the

2313
02:51:51,152 --> 02:51:53,192
city of Saskatoon, what I've seen in the years that

2314
02:51:53,192 --> 02:51:56,872
I'm here is the more we get into people's lives

2315
02:51:58,893 --> 02:52:01,832
and get involved in what they're going to build the

2316
02:52:01,832 --> 02:52:04,719
less we see built. Heard a lot talk about affordable

2317
02:52:04,759 --> 02:52:07,199
housing ten. I'm not sure how this pertains to affordable

2318
02:52:07,239 --> 02:52:10,719
housing. I, well, we've heard very clearly from everybody in

2319
02:52:10,719 --> 02:52:12,799
the past few years is we need housing all across

2320
02:52:12,820 --> 02:52:18,195
the housing spectrum. Um, including infill. And we also heard

2321
02:52:18,216 --> 02:52:21,635
that if we can help with some of these changes,

2322
02:52:21,635 --> 02:52:26,115
um, it might make basements possible, which means basement suites

2323
02:52:26,115 --> 02:52:28,515
are more possible, which means people that can't afford to

2324
02:52:28,555 --> 02:52:30,755
build a house right now might be able to, because

2325
02:52:30,755 --> 02:52:33,375
that's what we're seeing in green field is that, uh,

2326
02:52:33,736 --> 02:52:35,955
more and more, what we're hearing from builders who aren't

2327
02:52:35,976 --> 02:52:40,675
evil people. They're actually representing home, homeowners. But more and

2328
02:52:40,715 --> 02:52:44,275
more, what we're hearing from builders in Greenfield is that

2329
02:52:44,376 --> 02:52:47,155
to afford to build in Saskatoon, people are putting sweets

2330
02:52:47,176 --> 02:52:49,635
in right away. And I think we're going to see

2331
02:52:49,635 --> 02:52:54,569
that. More and more for infill as well. Um, you

2332
02:52:54,569 --> 02:52:57,529
know, our own administration said tonight that sidewall rigs are

2333
02:52:57,550 --> 02:53:00,729
an impediment to development. Um, so I don't think this

2334
02:53:00,750 --> 02:53:03,289
is the highest and best, but I do think that

2335
02:53:03,310 --> 02:53:06,649
it's a step in the right direction. Um, and I

2336
02:53:06,649 --> 02:53:10,809
think it's something that we should do to ease restrictions

2337
02:53:10,990 --> 02:53:15,369
and make things a little bit clearer so that it's

2338
02:53:15,409 --> 02:53:17,209
a little bit more reasonable. You know, a few years

2339
02:53:17,209 --> 02:53:21,129
ago, half brought in broad sweeping changes right across the

2340
02:53:21,169 --> 02:53:29,609
city. That not everybody liked. And I think, um, sometimes,

2341
02:53:29,609 --> 02:53:33,609
um, neighbours should have a say over what they want

2342
02:53:33,609 --> 02:53:36,729
to build. They don't think it should have zero restrictions,

2343
02:53:36,729 --> 02:53:38,489
but I think that what's being put in front of

2344
02:53:38,529 --> 02:53:42,889
us today are reasonable guidelines for what somebody can build.

2345
02:53:43,830 --> 02:53:48,205
And then we should let them build. Thank you. Uh,

2346
02:53:48,226 --> 02:53:56,678
thank you. I guess I'll go next. Council Jeffries.

2347
02:53:58,824 --> 02:54:03,603
Thank you Mayor Bloch and appreciate everyone who is here

2348
02:54:03,603 --> 02:54:07,123
today to speak and share their thoughts and opinions and

2349
02:54:07,304 --> 02:54:12,243
contribute to the debate here today. And, um, I was

2350
02:54:12,584 --> 02:54:15,763
around the table, not only when we originally brought in

2351
02:54:16,904 --> 02:54:21,043
the infill guidelines and the sidewall calculation. But I remember

2352
02:54:21,304 --> 02:54:24,963
being in groups of people prior to serving on council,

2353
02:54:24,963 --> 02:54:27,683
uh, as we were having those discussions and know the

2354
02:54:27,704 --> 02:54:31,763
importance of the tool and certainly I'm not in favor

2355
02:54:31,803 --> 02:54:35,123
of some of the suggestions that have said that we

2356
02:54:35,123 --> 02:54:37,763
should be getting rid of the sidewall calculation and getting

2357
02:54:37,784 --> 02:54:40,003
rid of some of these pieces here. Uh, I think

2358
02:54:40,024 --> 02:54:44,403
it's been well demonstrated that these tools are helping our

2359
02:54:44,504 --> 02:54:47,683
infill to work well. And, uh, and I don't have

2360
02:54:47,723 --> 02:54:51,178
an interest in throwing that out. Um, but at the

2361
02:54:51,178 --> 02:54:54,218
same time, having been here through this entire process, I've

2362
02:54:54,239 --> 02:54:59,018
had the opportunity to see how sometimes there have been

2363
02:54:59,119 --> 02:55:04,538
unintended impacts. Um, uh, from what we have in place

2364
02:55:04,538 --> 02:55:10,524
right now. And what's in front of us here today,

2365
02:55:10,524 --> 02:55:14,444
by my estimation, our small changes, uh, that can have

2366
02:55:14,865 --> 02:55:17,964
big positive impacts. And I've seen it before. I've spoken

2367
02:55:17,985 --> 02:55:22,444
with people in doing in fills who are dealing with,

2368
02:55:22,444 --> 02:55:25,724
as has been noted, the sewer issue and the ability

2369
02:55:25,825 --> 02:55:29,864
then to actually create a livable below grade space, um,

2370
02:55:30,065 --> 02:55:32,924
and having that constrained in some cases, uh, with the

2371
02:55:32,945 --> 02:55:35,124
one metre. And, you know, this is not going to

2372
02:55:35,124 --> 02:55:39,164
make everyone happy at 1. 3, but I think provides

2373
02:55:39,585 --> 02:55:43,644
a fix to a problem that we've identified without throwing

2374
02:55:43,665 --> 02:55:46,204
out the intent of what is there by having that

2375
02:55:46,385 --> 02:55:49,644
cell height in fact in place. And on the sidewall

2376
02:55:49,665 --> 02:55:53,164
calculation, I mean, the, the thing that I've also seen,

2377
02:55:53,164 --> 02:55:55,724
and it's, it's well noted right in the document here

2378
02:55:55,745 --> 02:55:58,684
that's in front of us is that the current sidewall

2379
02:55:58,724 --> 02:56:04,044
area regulations can create unintended design constraints penalizing certain roof

2380
02:56:04,044 --> 02:56:07,404
forms of building designs even when the overall building scale

2381
02:56:07,444 --> 02:56:12,604
remains appropriate. And that's my conclusion here is what's in

2382
02:56:12,604 --> 02:56:17,004
front of us is, is a small change. Um, about,

2383
02:56:17,004 --> 02:56:22,284
you know, just about those typical, uh, that typical infill,

2384
02:56:26,145 --> 02:56:30,204
design flexibility. And I think I would actually argue, because

2385
02:56:30,204 --> 02:56:33,244
I've seen some of the renderings of what changes have

2386
02:56:33,244 --> 02:56:36,604
to be made to fit the sidewall calculation versus what,

2387
02:56:36,604 --> 02:56:39,804
uh, someone wanted to do. And the massing is very

2388
02:56:39,825 --> 02:56:42,124
similar on each. But you actually end up with a

2389
02:56:42,305 --> 02:56:48,113
less aesthetically pleasing house that I would argue just. Is

2390
02:56:48,153 --> 02:56:51,373
actually less nice to look at as a neighbour. Um,

2391
02:56:53,094 --> 02:56:55,313
then if we were to allow a little more design

2392
02:56:55,414 --> 02:56:59,953
flexibility, which isn't drastically changing, uh, any sense of massing.

2393
02:56:59,953 --> 02:57:03,793
So I think we've identified issues over time. Um, that's

2394
02:57:03,894 --> 02:57:06,193
a good thing. That means we're listening. It means we're

2395
02:57:06,233 --> 02:57:11,233
having conversations. And we've got very small, um, changes that

2396
02:57:11,233 --> 02:57:13,233
we can make to make things better without throwing the

2397
02:57:13,254 --> 02:57:15,393
baby out with the bath water. So I'm in favor

2398
02:57:15,393 --> 02:57:18,353
of these changes. Thank you, Your Block. Okay. Now I

2399
02:57:18,393 --> 02:57:23,490
think I'm next. Uh, I too, I guess it's really

2400
02:57:23,530 --> 02:57:25,890
want to thank everybody for their work on this and

2401
02:57:25,911 --> 02:57:28,210
for preparing your remarks and taking the time to come

2402
02:57:28,250 --> 02:57:32,567
down here and be with us. We are very lucky

2403
02:57:32,748 --> 02:57:34,887
to have so many people who care so much about

2404
02:57:35,228 --> 02:57:39,687
our community and especially our info neighbourhoods where we know

2405
02:57:39,868 --> 02:57:42,247
they are changing. And we want to make sure that

2406
02:57:42,287 --> 02:57:45,267
we are preserving as much as we possibly can. And

2407
02:57:45,267 --> 02:57:47,527
I think it's one of the reasons I've been really

2408
02:57:47,628 --> 02:57:49,887
grateful in my time on council to be able to

2409
02:57:49,887 --> 02:57:52,727
be a part of a new tree bylaw, uh, to

2410
02:57:52,748 --> 02:57:56,407
protect urban canopy and to be a part of it

2411
02:57:56,428 --> 02:58:00,327
finally, our very first drainage bylaw. All of the pieces

2412
02:58:00,348 --> 02:58:03,927
that I know are really important to make sure that

2413
02:58:03,967 --> 02:58:07,827
we are going forward with our infill in a way

2414
02:58:07,827 --> 02:58:11,527
that's not only respectful, but protects the neighbours. And I

2415
02:58:11,548 --> 02:58:16,007
wasn't around for the initial changes that happened after the

2416
02:58:16,028 --> 02:58:19,847
original infill guidelines were causing concerns. But I know how

2417
02:58:19,887 --> 02:58:22,947
much, uh, residents appreciated that some of those, you know,

2418
02:58:23,228 --> 02:58:26,567
rules were tightened to make it, um, better for their

2419
02:58:26,588 --> 02:58:29,683
neighbours. And that will always matter to me. I think

2420
02:58:29,704 --> 02:58:32,803
that based on what I've heard today, there has been

2421
02:58:32,803 --> 02:58:36,323
a good compromise. I really appreciate our administration's work on

2422
02:58:36,323 --> 02:58:40,163
this and the, uh, many tough questions that you had

2423
02:58:40,203 --> 02:58:46,152
to answer this evening. One of the things throughout the

2424
02:58:46,173 --> 02:58:50,872
evening that I couldn't stop thinking about is, why is

2425
02:58:50,872 --> 02:58:53,512
this only about people who are building really big homes?

2426
02:58:53,512 --> 02:58:56,232
Why is that the only thing we're thinking about is

2427
02:58:56,232 --> 02:58:59,112
that really what this, uh, change is about. And I

2428
02:58:59,112 --> 02:59:02,472
don't think it is. I think based on what we've

2429
02:59:02,512 --> 02:59:06,872
approved through the housing accelerator fund and a host of

2430
02:59:06,973 --> 02:59:10,712
other, um, you know, infill guidelines and incentives that we

2431
02:59:10,752 --> 02:59:14,152
are putting into our community for creating more types of

2432
02:59:14,253 --> 02:59:17,832
housing, more affordable housing, uh, more opportunities for people to

2433
02:59:17,853 --> 02:59:23,352
have more dwellings on a site that disenhances our ability

2434
02:59:23,392 --> 02:59:25,672
to do that. And I also heard tonight about the

2435
02:59:25,712 --> 02:59:28,152
difficulty and our infill neighbourhoods to be able to do

2436
02:59:28,573 --> 02:59:31,272
four stories as of right. These are all concerns that

2437
02:59:31,312 --> 02:59:36,392
we should want to address. And I'm, um, grateful that

2438
02:59:36,493 --> 02:59:39,592
we have the opportunity to make what I also consider,

2439
02:59:39,592 --> 02:59:44,612
um, relatively minimal change for an opportunity to see, you

2440
02:59:44,612 --> 02:59:49,672
know, better opportunities for info. And I agree that there's

2441
02:59:49,672 --> 02:59:53,312
also, the part about design matters to us. I think

2442
02:59:53,312 --> 02:59:55,352
it matters to us all. We'll all have an opinion

2443
02:59:55,533 --> 02:59:58,472
about what good design looks like. But I think having

2444
02:59:58,813 --> 03:00:02,152
the opportunity to ensure that those resonance that have those

2445
03:00:02,173 --> 03:00:06,682
visions and they're working with their builders should have. Better

2446
03:00:06,703 --> 03:00:09,882
options is maybe not quite the right word, but they

2447
03:00:09,882 --> 03:00:12,762
should have an expanded opportunity to make sure that that

2448
03:00:13,343 --> 03:00:16,682
design work can, can be fulfilled. So I will be

2449
03:00:17,263 --> 03:00:24,830
supporting this Councillor Dubois. Thank you, Mayor Bloch. And thank

2450
03:00:24,830 --> 03:00:27,610
you to administration. Thank you for all it spoke. And

2451
03:00:27,610 --> 03:00:31,390
thank you for all of the letters that came in.

2452
03:00:31,390 --> 03:00:34,830
This stuff is complicated stuff. We were even just talking

2453
03:00:34,870 --> 03:00:37,630
in the break. It's not clear, you know, it's not

2454
03:00:37,891 --> 03:00:40,430
ultra clear things that we're dealing with when we're talking

2455
03:00:40,470 --> 03:00:46,612
about these bylaw changes and whatnot. And. I was here

2456
03:00:46,873 --> 03:00:50,532
in 2022 when we, when we discussed that. And that's

2457
03:00:50,532 --> 03:00:53,572
why I need a clarification exactly as to why we're,

2458
03:00:53,612 --> 03:01:01,009
why we're here again. And there are things that I

2459
03:01:01,009 --> 03:01:04,209
don't like about this. And some of the, some of

2460
03:01:04,249 --> 03:01:09,649
them I asked the questions about. But I have to

2461
03:01:09,670 --> 03:01:14,511
make a vote here tonight. And I. We have to

2462
03:01:14,511 --> 03:01:19,491
keep moving forward. We can't stall and stand still. And

2463
03:01:19,491 --> 03:01:23,991
I've heard that the place else to go after this.

2464
03:01:23,991 --> 03:01:26,391
Although that I could even argue, there's always a place

2465
03:01:26,431 --> 03:01:28,951
to go. Uh, but we've been dealing with this for

2466
03:01:28,991 --> 03:01:31,511
so many years that, you know, how any more years

2467
03:01:31,612 --> 03:01:37,400
are we going to deal with it? Um, and. So

2468
03:01:37,440 --> 03:01:40,720
for me. For me, I think that we still have,

2469
03:01:40,720 --> 03:01:45,185
we still do have work to do. But I also

2470
03:01:45,366 --> 03:01:50,065
feel that we do have to move forward. We have

2471
03:01:50,065 --> 03:01:56,067
to make progress. And we need to have reasonable guidelines

2472
03:01:56,408 --> 03:02:03,609
that help infill. And I too at the beginning Mayor

2473
03:02:03,710 --> 03:02:07,289
Block, I felt this was a big houses mansions on

2474
03:02:07,329 --> 03:02:11,908
corners. Or on, maybe on corners is what I came

2475
03:02:11,929 --> 03:02:14,708
out of the report about actually. But I don't totally

2476
03:02:14,809 --> 03:02:18,868
feel that way anymore. And, um, I think that we

2477
03:02:18,908 --> 03:02:21,908
have, we have work to do. We have to take

2478
03:02:22,089 --> 03:02:24,788
small steps as we are to make sure that we

2479
03:02:24,809 --> 03:02:31,050
are doing the right things to improve in fill. And

2480
03:02:31,071 --> 03:02:33,848
I think this is a good step. So I'm going

2481
03:02:33,848 --> 03:02:39,538
to be supporting it today. I don't see any other.

2482
03:02:39,538 --> 03:02:42,338
Just a second. Before we go any further, uh, it's

2483
03:02:42,919 --> 03:02:45,778
9 p. m. We are, uh, in need of a

2484
03:02:45,778 --> 03:02:48,658
motion to extend if we are to continue this meaning

2485
03:02:48,759 --> 03:02:53,348
tonight. And we'll need two thirds vote. In order to

2486
03:02:54,009 --> 03:02:57,748
extend. What is the wish of council? Do we wish

2487
03:02:57,788 --> 03:03:01,729
to finish the agenda tonight. Or do we want to.

2488
03:03:03,789 --> 03:03:08,299
Councillor Dubois. Thank you Mayor Bloch. I mean, I asked

2489
03:03:08,299 --> 03:03:11,179
a question first of the administration in regards to item

2490
03:03:11,520 --> 03:03:14,939
5. 12. Is that an item that we could defer

2491
03:03:14,960 --> 03:03:19,739
to public hearings in September? Or is that, would that

2492
03:03:19,739 --> 03:03:25,662
cause a problem. For. Me?

2493
03:03:34,572 --> 03:03:37,571
Uh, through you, Mayor Bloch, we could defer it, but

2494
03:03:37,571 --> 03:03:42,556
it is also a very short item. Famous last words.

2495
03:03:42,556 --> 03:03:46,876
We said, well. It is just a correction from a

2496
03:03:46,876 --> 03:03:50,076
previous amendment. Okay. Well, I would move that we defer

2497
03:03:50,097 --> 03:03:54,038
the meeting to finish the agenda. As everyone okay with

2498
03:03:54,038 --> 03:03:56,198
that. I don't think we need to vote. I think

2499
03:03:56,198 --> 03:03:58,158
I just need a bit of a straw point. We

2500
03:03:58,198 --> 03:04:01,937
need a second. We're deferring. Did you say we're deferred?

2501
03:04:01,977 --> 03:04:04,626
No, we're going to finish the agenda tonight. We are

2502
03:04:04,666 --> 03:04:07,666
anticipating a very short next report. And then we should

2503
03:04:07,706 --> 03:04:14,501
be hopefully clear. Are you okay with that council down.

2504
03:04:16,505 --> 03:04:20,579
Yeah. I'd like to finish. Thank you. Uh, any opposition

2505
03:04:20,600 --> 03:04:22,966
online. But we need to move her in a second

2506
03:04:23,067 --> 03:04:25,046
report. I do need to move her in second or

2507
03:04:25,067 --> 03:04:27,366
okay. Okay. Move by Councillor Dubois and seconded by Councillor

2508
03:04:27,467 --> 03:04:35,540
Pierce. I'll call the question as anyone opposed. Hearing none,

2509
03:04:35,540 --> 03:04:41,601
we shall proceed Councillor Parker. Thanks. Um, I will try

2510
03:04:41,641 --> 03:04:47,681
to keep my comments unusually concise. Um, I, um, I

2511
03:04:47,782 --> 03:04:51,901
certainly appreciate that many of the speakers tonight are, uh,

2512
03:04:52,102 --> 03:04:55,601
from my ward. In fact, my neighbours, uh, in many

2513
03:04:55,601 --> 03:05:03,520
cases. A lot of this report addressed information that we

2514
03:05:03,941 --> 03:05:09,360
received from consultants from folks that we were asking for

2515
03:05:09,541 --> 03:05:14,320
their expertise, including NPC and including admin who has certainly

2516
03:05:14,360 --> 03:05:16,880
a lot more experience, uh, in this realm than I

2517
03:05:16,880 --> 03:05:22,480
do. Um, it's not lost on me that, um, a

2518
03:05:22,480 --> 03:05:26,000
few years ago when the new tannic community association argued

2519
03:05:26,040 --> 03:05:29,280
against these regulations, uh, I was the president of the

2520
03:05:29,461 --> 03:05:34,560
Community Association. Certainly developed a different viewpoint. I've had to

2521
03:05:34,600 --> 03:05:38,198
develop a different viewpoint sitting in this chair. Um, and

2522
03:05:38,219 --> 03:05:40,518
I've also had the opportunity to learn a lot more

2523
03:05:40,539 --> 03:05:44,738
about, um, the impact of some of these things. Um,

2524
03:05:44,738 --> 03:05:48,758
I think the goal of infill regulations is to these

2525
03:05:49,019 --> 03:05:51,718
infelic regulations that we're talking about is to limit massing

2526
03:05:51,739 --> 03:05:55,158
and not necessarily make affordable housing the only thing being

2527
03:05:55,259 --> 03:06:02,260
built. The increase of affordable housing in Saskatoon will be

2528
03:06:02,260 --> 03:06:06,500
the result of compounding incremental changes, uh, it's not necessarily

2529
03:06:07,481 --> 03:06:10,660
the only metric we can use to make decisions when

2530
03:06:10,700 --> 03:06:13,140
we're talking about housing or when we're talking about zoning

2531
03:06:13,161 --> 03:06:20,461
changes. These changes that are being proposed, um, certainly will

2532
03:06:20,461 --> 03:06:24,941
result in larger houses. But it also allow for larger

2533
03:06:24,962 --> 03:06:30,141
and more creative envelopes, which may also lead to multi

2534
03:06:30,242 --> 03:06:33,901
- unit housing. We heard that this can be two

2535
03:06:33,941 --> 03:06:35,741
units. This can be three units. This can be four

2536
03:06:35,741 --> 03:06:42,128
units. And it's the decision of the folks that are

2537
03:06:42,149 --> 03:06:46,596
building these houses. To do, to do with what they

2538
03:06:46,636 --> 03:06:50,036
want, with the property that they own. Um, I think

2539
03:06:50,057 --> 03:06:53,316
about her missing middle a lot. Certainly as somebody who's

2540
03:06:53,316 --> 03:06:57,636
experiencing it, I can't afford a house. I don't live

2541
03:06:57,676 --> 03:07:00,116
in a single unit property. I don't have a backyard.

2542
03:07:01,439 --> 03:07:07,898
Um, the missing middle impacts my generation significantly. And I

2543
03:07:07,898 --> 03:07:13,338
think this administration has done a sufficient job limiting the

2544
03:07:13,338 --> 03:07:17,978
sizing and masking issues. Um, certainly limiting what we see

2545
03:07:18,159 --> 03:07:21,258
in other jurisdictions. I know there was comments about Edmonton

2546
03:07:21,519 --> 03:07:25,858
and our zoning, our infill zoning is more restrictive. We

2547
03:07:25,858 --> 03:07:28,138
can't build as tall. We can't build as many units

2548
03:07:28,319 --> 03:07:31,578
in the middle of the block. Um, these are things

2549
03:07:31,618 --> 03:07:38,698
that administration has continued to, I guess, restrict as best

2550
03:07:38,698 --> 03:07:41,978
they can while trying to move forward. Um, and I

2551
03:07:41,978 --> 03:07:48,458
think limiting at 10 percent is them trying to respond

2552
03:07:48,559 --> 03:07:54,938
to the community while moving forward. Um, I think even

2553
03:07:54,978 --> 03:07:58,938
in relation to the mayor's comments, um, these changes are

2554
03:07:58,959 --> 03:08:01,658
being proposed in a different context than what they were

2555
03:08:01,839 --> 03:08:05,571
10 years ago. Um, we have different, we have more

2556
03:08:05,752 --> 03:08:12,910
bylaws. We have, um. We have different zoning. You know,

2557
03:08:12,910 --> 03:08:15,330
these are things that we're working on all the time.

2558
03:08:15,330 --> 03:08:16,930
Um, and I think it's something that we need to

2559
03:08:17,191 --> 03:08:19,090
continue to work. We need to continue to work with

2560
03:08:19,130 --> 03:08:22,850
our community. Um, we need to, uh, include our neighbours

2561
03:08:22,850 --> 03:08:27,103
who are moving into and building in the neighbourhood. And

2562
03:08:27,143 --> 03:08:29,423
we need to continue to work on, on these bilats

2563
03:08:30,004 --> 03:08:33,103
that do protect the things that are important to us.

2564
03:08:35,052 --> 03:08:39,884
Um. But we need to make the space, um, for

2565
03:08:39,905 --> 03:08:41,884
growth in the best way that we can. And I

2566
03:08:41,884 --> 03:08:45,564
think this is, uh, reflective of that. So we'll be

2567
03:08:45,564 --> 03:08:50,162
voting in favor. Okay. I don't see any of their

2568
03:08:50,663 --> 03:08:58,656
Councillor Keller. Thank you through you Mayor Block. You know,

2569
03:08:58,917 --> 03:09:01,696
it's the commons I would have been, have been made.

2570
03:09:01,696 --> 03:09:04,096
But would like to thank administration and everyone who came

2571
03:09:04,117 --> 03:09:08,576
out tonight around who wrote in. I think that this,

2572
03:09:08,597 --> 03:09:12,956
this recommendation really does its best and seeks to. And

2573
03:09:12,956 --> 03:09:15,136
I think achieve striking a balance between the needs of

2574
03:09:15,136 --> 03:09:19,936
the community. What people are asking for resident concerns and

2575
03:09:19,936 --> 03:09:22,736
a desire to have infil and to work with the

2576
03:09:22,917 --> 03:09:25,616
building community as well. I think it could go further

2577
03:09:25,797 --> 03:09:30,816
on sidewall. I just decide, well, um, peace is, I

2578
03:09:30,816 --> 03:09:35,216
think, overly complex. I think it and a bit redundant.

2579
03:09:35,216 --> 03:09:37,136
It would seem to me that there, you know, there

2580
03:09:37,136 --> 03:09:41,036
are setbacks. There's building height. There's site coverage. You know,

2581
03:09:41,036 --> 03:09:42,956
pieces that are in place. And I don't know how

2582
03:09:42,956 --> 03:09:47,564
much more sidewall really adds. Other than complexity into the

2583
03:09:47,604 --> 03:09:50,684
equation. And so I'm curious about that and that we're

2584
03:09:50,684 --> 03:09:56,954
the only jurisdiction. That uses it. So that's something I

2585
03:09:56,994 --> 03:10:00,874
would like to revisit at some point, I think more

2586
03:10:00,895 --> 03:10:02,634
work needs to be done there. I think it needs

2587
03:10:02,634 --> 03:10:06,234
to be brought down into a more pedestrian type of,

2588
03:10:06,234 --> 03:10:10,234
um, description. But I wouldn't want that to hold up

2589
03:10:10,415 --> 03:10:14,234
this recommendation that I think does, um, does move the

2590
03:10:14,274 --> 03:10:15,674
needle a little bit in ways that it needs to

2591
03:10:15,674 --> 03:10:21,514
be moved. And so, uh, I'll be supporting this recommendation.

2592
03:10:21,514 --> 03:10:26,359
Thank you. I don't see any other lights on. I

2593
03:10:26,359 --> 03:10:30,439
think we can move on now to, uh, Murr plays

2594
03:10:30,540 --> 03:10:32,759
for second reading of the Bylaw Mud by Council McDonald

2595
03:10:33,020 --> 03:10:38,736
and seconded by Councillor Kellerher. Is anyone opposed. That carries

2596
03:10:39,157 --> 03:10:42,656
permission for third reading of the bylaw move by Councillor

2597
03:10:42,677 --> 03:10:50,610
Duan seconded by Councillor Ford? Is anyone opposed. Seeing none.

2598
03:10:50,610 --> 03:10:52,930
And a mover for third, reading of the bylaw, moved

2599
03:10:52,930 --> 03:10:58,850
by Councillor McDonald and seconded by Councillor Jeffries. Is anyone

2600
03:10:58,871 --> 03:11:07,635
opposed. And that carries unanimously. Thank you everyone. We will

2601
03:11:07,675 --> 03:11:12,171
move now. Two 5. 1. 2 zoning by Lyde Text

2602
03:11:12,171 --> 03:11:16,485
Amendments, Garden and Garage Suite. Mayor Block. I had sent

2603
03:11:16,525 --> 03:11:21,445
it. Uh, motion arising. Okay. My apologies, uh, go ahead,

2604
03:11:21,445 --> 03:11:27,859
Councillor Donauer. I'm sorry. Um, I did send the wording

2605
03:11:27,899 --> 03:11:31,539
to the City clerk and I would like to move,

2606
03:11:31,539 --> 03:11:35,059
uh, that the administration continue to work with Assession Regional

2607
03:11:35,080 --> 03:11:40,181
home builders association and other stateholders. To simplify and feel

2608
03:11:40,221 --> 03:11:45,505
guidelines and adopt best practices across Canada. And a secondary.

2609
03:11:45,505 --> 03:11:48,146
There's a second there on speak to it. Second and

2610
03:11:48,146 --> 03:11:52,487
by Councillor Dubois, go ahead Council Donauer. Thank you. Um,

2611
03:11:53,168 --> 03:11:58,319
Mayor, Mayor Block. I don't want to split the end

2612
03:11:58,319 --> 03:12:01,439
result should be, but I do think that one thing

2613
03:12:01,700 --> 03:12:03,839
that was unanimous, well, I shouldn't say unanimous. One thing

2614
03:12:03,879 --> 03:12:06,159
was common from a lot of the speakers tonight was

2615
03:12:06,199 --> 03:12:10,719
that our parts of our info guidelines are unduly complex

2616
03:12:10,980 --> 03:12:14,799
and not easily understood. Um, and I think that's something

2617
03:12:14,900 --> 03:12:18,799
that maybe we can investigate and see what other municipalities

2618
03:12:18,820 --> 03:12:22,719
cross country are doing. I do understand Ms. Anderson said,

2619
03:12:22,719 --> 03:12:25,839
um, they probably reached the end of making changes to

2620
03:12:26,020 --> 03:12:28,559
the sidewall regulations. I'd like us to maybe look and

2621
03:12:28,559 --> 03:12:32,159
see what other cities are doing. Um, if there's a

2622
03:12:32,199 --> 03:12:34,959
simpler way that we can have inpo guidelines that both

2623
03:12:34,999 --> 03:12:38,959
protect the nature of a neighbourhood, um, but also provide

2624
03:12:39,380 --> 03:12:42,799
clarity on what residents can build so that it's easily

2625
03:12:42,980 --> 03:12:45,599
understood by builders and residents. So that's the nature of

2626
03:12:45,639 --> 03:12:48,864
my motion. And it's assumed that they were being engagement.

2627
03:12:49,576 --> 03:12:54,626
As well. Are there camps? I should, if it can't

2628
03:12:54,666 --> 03:12:59,327
be assumed, I'll add it. Are there any questions or

2629
03:12:59,348 --> 03:13:09,037
comments about Councillor Donova's motion. I'll call the question, is

2630
03:13:09,037 --> 03:13:17,009
anyone opposed. That passes unanimously. Thank you, Councillor. Now 5.

2631
03:13:17,030 --> 03:13:19,489
1. 2 Garden of Garage Suites. Got to get a

2632
03:13:19,489 --> 03:13:23,569
Muber for first reading of Byla 10204 move by Councillor

2633
03:13:23,569 --> 03:13:28,075
McDonald and seconded by Councillor Ford. Is anyone opposed. The

2634
03:13:28,115 --> 03:13:30,395
hearing is open and I'll turn it over to our

2635
03:13:30,435 --> 03:13:36,596
administration. Thank you, Madam Chair. Let the City clerk bring

2636
03:13:36,596 --> 03:13:43,864
up this life for Byla Number 10204. There we go.

2637
03:13:44,761 --> 03:13:49,524
So next slide, please. Council City Council approved amendments to

2638
03:13:49,524 --> 03:13:54,084
the regulations regarding garage suites in May of this year.

2639
03:13:54,084 --> 03:13:58,004
An important regulation was inadvertently deleted that requires that the

2640
03:13:58,265 --> 03:14:02,884
upper story of upper story of a Garnagra Suite B

2641
03:14:03,065 --> 03:14:05,924
80 percent of the size of the main floor. Again,

2642
03:14:05,924 --> 03:14:09,924
this reduces the massing of the building. The administration is

2643
03:14:09,964 --> 03:14:12,644
recommending that the Prospe Amendments be approved to just add

2644
03:14:12,665 --> 03:14:21,704
this provision back into the bylaw. That's it. And I

2645
03:14:21,704 --> 03:14:25,044
believe NPC has already spoken to this. So there's not

2646
03:14:25,044 --> 03:14:30,584
another report there. Uh, are there any members of the

2647
03:14:31,085 --> 03:14:37,464
public wishing to speak to this. I'm not seeing any.

2648
03:14:38,320 --> 03:14:41,099
I could get a mover to receive the reports Muay

2649
03:14:41,139 --> 03:14:44,779
Council McDonald and Second Abed Councillor Parker. Certainly want to

2650
03:14:44,779 --> 03:14:48,487
post. A carries and a resolution to close the hearing

2651
03:14:49,148 --> 03:14:52,727
moved by Councillor Dubois and seconded by Councillor Ford. Does

2652
03:14:52,727 --> 03:15:01,734
anyone opposed. That carries. Are there any comments. Seeing none?

2653
03:15:01,734 --> 03:15:03,814
I need a mover for second reading. Mut by Councillor

2654
03:15:03,854 --> 03:15:09,904
Kelleher and seconded by Councillor Dubois. Does anyone opposed. That

2655
03:15:09,925 --> 03:15:13,504
carries a permission for third week by Councillor Jeffries and

2656
03:15:13,504 --> 03:15:18,486
seconded by Councillor Pierce? Is anyone opposed. That carries. And

2657
03:15:18,486 --> 03:15:20,666
third reading of the Byla moved by Councillor Parker and

2658
03:15:20,706 --> 03:15:28,360
seconded by Councillor Ford. Is anyone opposed? That carries. We

2659
03:15:28,541 --> 03:15:32,440
go now to Proclamations, Illuminations and Flag Raisings. Could I

2660
03:15:32,440 --> 03:15:35,800
get a mover move by Councillor Dubois and seconded by

2661
03:15:35,800 --> 03:15:40,693
Councillor Pierce? Is there any discussion on the matter. Seeing

2662
03:15:40,714 --> 03:15:44,873
none, I'll call the question is anyone opposed. In that

2663
03:15:45,134 --> 03:15:50,926
carries. No urgent business. We are. Yes.