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All right. It is 6.30. So I will call the September work session of the city council to order. The first item on the agenda is approval of the agenda. I'll make a motion. We approve the agenda as sprinted. The second is my. My kids. Yep. My kids. Okay. So we we need to do.

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roll call votes tonight? Because Mike is at 10. You can skip it if you want. I don't have to vote.

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You might want to vote. You don't know what's going on here.

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I don't know. So I'll just do this anyway. Kirsten.

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All right. Jim. Aye. Mike. Aye. Steve is aye. Motion carries.

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Carmar Watershed Road Improvement Cost Share Request. Kyle. Yes, we briefly touched on this

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at our last meeting, council had some questions regarding the projects specifically, you know,

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was it designed, why is it failing so quickly after construction, was the design issue,

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was it just a soil correction issue, we went back to the watershed, asked them for some

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updated information, which was added to your packet yesterday morning.

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Long in the short of it is the watershed and their engineer have been trying to address

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this issue for a year. They first started discussing it in September of last year.

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They had a couple meetings on it at the watershed, none of which we were made aware of or invited to.

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There seems to be some discrepancy about who is responsible for the failure.

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Based on the information provided, it appears that the engineer

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is somewhat blaming the conditions of the road and the fact that they couldn't

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design it in the manner that they wanted to because the city wouldn't allow

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them to put a drain across the center of the road. We've asked the water should

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for information on what was accepted at the time of construction whether or not

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it was installed correctly and if so or if not who signed off on any of that and they

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have not provided any of that information.

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Well, what do you mean by the center of the road?

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So they re-crowned the road on the north end of Larksburg and Layton.

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They re-crowned it to transfer water to the new storm water basins that they built.

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And that crown did not end up where they wanted it to based on the settling of the road.

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The question is how why did it settle in the manner that it did that's prohibiting the

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water from flowing in the intended direction.

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It could be a design issue, it could be poor construction, it could actually be settlement,

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but if you're settling this quickly, you're not compacting your soils appropriately prior

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to paving.

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I don't think there's an issue with faulty material, although there is a large section

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of curb that was taken out already, so I say we were at the site visit, you had some

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ideas of that being quality of concrete, if I remember correctly?

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Yeah, I don't know that concrete, the issue I have with concrete when we looked at it was

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like they were honey coming up in the buildings.

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Thank you.

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When we looked at the concrete, it looked like it was honey coming up in the back where it

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was exposed, which means it didn't knife the concrete properly, so if a plower

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had come through, it could crack more easily. I doubt that relate or parlayed into

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the drainage issue, but without the watershed conducting an as-built survey,

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like we requested it's impossible for us to know if it was even installed per the

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design. So when we were out there, it did look like the curve was installed high. It

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didn't appear that there was much of a crown out there at all. I don't know why

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that is without seeing an as-built survey, but we had talked about was a slight

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alignment of that curb and removing the stuff that had the honey combing behind it and then

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potentially adjusting the catch base and even slightly down to allow them to crown it more.

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To get it, essentially off the road quicker because it is Steve coming around that curve.

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Doing that won't stop 100% of the water from getting to the curb. It's just so Steve down

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that road that you can't crown it quickly enough to get 100% of it off. But when we were out there,

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it looked like water from the northwest side of that curve all the way around. None of it was getting

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to the curb line which should not be the case. So what we proposed was essentially allowing

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them to crown it more than what was out there. Again, likely should have been done during

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design. We don't know how much higher it was installed versus the design without them doing

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as build survey. So how much are you talking like two or three inches? Yeah, at the CB, it would

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be about two inches. They had one full ring on that CB that could be removed.

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just over the road.

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Just overlaying the road? Yeah, just overlay the road to build up a

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crown.

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Doing that would be you'd still have to cut into the road one way or another, but

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to do that you'd be crowning to the what is the north side of the curb line by doing that and

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not recrowning in general by lowering the curb on the north side. You're going to make the slope

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on the south side of the road excessive. So by dropping that other curb you can keep the crown

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on uniforms, so it's like 2% or 2% or something along those lines rather than essentially overlaying it and making the north side 2%, but now the south side is 5% or 6%.

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Well, they drive like a racetrack down there, like in diesel.

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So who is the contract between?

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The previous product or the EOR?

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Well, EOR was the designer, obviously it's a watershed project that the city agreed to

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cost share with the contractor. The project had to leave was Dressel contracting.

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I think because this was done a while ago, I saw that they only had a one year warranty on that project,

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which is why they're coming out the quotes. I think it was, I can't remember now.

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I think it was Meyer who was the lowest, bitter and whole.

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How is that correct?

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So that's what they're trying to get into now to correct it.

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So is the one year warranty normal?

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All of our projects are two year warranties.

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I don't know if watershed projects are all that way or not.

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All of our three projects less is two year warranties.

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Do we know if it was negotiated?

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We didn't have a hand in the go.

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We were not, we were consulted on the design,

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but we were not involved in the watershed

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to lead on the project.

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So they did the bidding, they did the bid review,

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they did the awarding, all the contracts were with the watershed.

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and they signed contract.

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And they signed contract?

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Yep.

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You win that they first find the problem within the one-year warranty period I'm assuming.

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I just been talking about it for another year and a half.

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It would have been around the one-year time frame.

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I couldn't tell you exactly when.

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I think there was coordination between the watershed and the resident prior to us getting involved.

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I think our first walkthrough of it was, right, our only walkthrough of it with the watershed I think was last fall.

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We had some correspondence with the watershed before that, throughout the year, I'm trying to get us requesting them to do as bill surveys to see if this was even required that we do the walkthrough, but the actual issue I believe is from the year prior, which is probably

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was probably within the year of the project getting done, but it would have been on the back end of that.

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Okay, because I'm just, you know, if the issue was brought up and it's just been taking a while to work through it, I would

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Think that there's still another contract of warranty, but

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That's something with the watershed to bring up with Dressel as well

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I don't know if they've had those discussions or not

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Again, we aren't the city is signed on as a cautious to spend for that project

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But we aren't really involved with anything else beyond that from administration to inspection all of that was run through the watershed and their engineer

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So does watershed have legal counsel?

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So, I don't see what role we have in this.

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So they want us to be a fun part of the problem, and I don't know why we would.

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Well, I'm looking at this as if the issue is discovered, it's always to me like it was

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either within or very near that one year window, and we just, so to speak, talking about

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it for a long time.

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It doesn't mean it's out of the world to be very, because the event was, as a standard

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to have one year for something like that?

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Again, for our stuff.

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So, I mean, bullet and bank projects through the city.

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All of our stuff is two years.

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I don't know if the watershed is typically one year or not,

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but all of our warranties for our street projects are two years.

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I did see in the email that was provided in the packet,

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like I and Z did state explicitly.

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That was a one year warranty.

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So, that must be what they have stated in that contract.

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So, if we say we're not going to participate,

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is that mean the watershed is not going to do anything?

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We would push on them to still make the correction.

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It needs to be corrected either way.

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Again, I think the debate is definitely worth having whether or not they should pay for or not.

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But the correction should be made, whether we contribute at all.

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I can't think of any road in town where we have a drain across the road.

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So what they wanted us to do, it is so unusual that we would say no anyway.

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And the water shed, I mean, they're the ones that got, they're in the contract, we're,

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you know, simply kind of like a silent partner most if we're not involved directly.

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So, do we want to, do we got a couple options presented to us, approve a percentage of cost share,

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table for future discussion, not sure there's other options out there.

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How about, we asked the water shed to pursue its professional obligation to making a claim on

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in the insurance against this, against this project.

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Is that a motion?

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It's a motion.

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I'll second that.

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Okay, all those in favor, I will roll call.

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Kirsten.

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Aye.

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Jim.

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Aye.

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Mike.

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Aye.

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And Steve is an aye.

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I just want to make sure, I just want to make sure

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I'm getting the motion right, you want to ask the watersheds

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to pursue a claim against the contractor?

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Against the insurance of the contractor.

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Resuming this, every project should be bonded and insured, right?

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And if it was made within the proper timelines, they should be pursuing this through the insurance.

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For what we assume to be faulty construction?

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Yeah,

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I shouldn't fail that quickly, absolutely.

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Point of clarification, the road isn't cracking at that location.

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And we don't know sitting here if it was a faulty install or staked incorrectly.

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We just don't really part of it.

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Exactly.

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And we don't know that.

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The only way that we could know that is if they did additional information provided

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it to us, but again, the cause of it, I don't know if it matters to us as much as it does

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to them in this claim.

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It's just, you know, a city is showing whether or not we are participating in costs.

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We just don't feel responsible that we should be paying for it, if it was part of their project,

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they should have a remedy.

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Okay.

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Good enough?

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Does it make sense for us to look at taking something like that over if we're worried about the

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way they're handling it? Not now, because they've already got her money. I mean, they

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already did that. I'm not saying we should pay for it. I'm saying, are we confident

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they're not going to do it again? So the corrective action that we talked about in the field

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would be about as much as we can do to correct the issue and get the maximum amount of water

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to the curb lines without completely resetting the structures. And again, I don't know if

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that we warranted or not.

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But we can only move the structures so low

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with the actual structure itself

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because they have adjusting rings on them.

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So we can remove all of those to lower the curb line.

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Beyond that, we can't do any more

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without completely essentially

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we'd be doing it which I think is beyond the scope

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what we would be looking for at this time.

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So that's really about the maximum

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that they could do.

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So as long as they do that,

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which we would be able to easily check afterwards,

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okay, that seems like it would solve

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the issue to the extent possible.

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Okay.

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So moving on to the draft RFP documents for engineering and legal services?

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Yeah, I'll put together some draft RFPs here for engineering and legal services.

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We did just so the direction of council was anything we haven't done in RFP for in the last five years.

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We did prosecuting services and planning in 2022 so they will be up next year and then

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next year we will also do auditing services because I think we're in the final year of

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a three-year agreement with the auditor.

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But engineering and legal have not been done since the early 2010s so I put together documents

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Once for you has discussed at the meeting the last meeting and notified both our engineering

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firm and our legal services firm that these were coming before you, engineering firm

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has put together a memo that is in the packet here addressing the RFPs here.

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Our legal provider did not put together a formal memo but we did have conversations and she

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Yes, that I relay just some journal.

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Local information to you guys about the difference between where they are currently bidding RFP services

201
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versus what our current rates are. I will let Bolton and Ming speak for themselves, but

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Eckburn-Lomers has indicated that they are more than willing to sit down or discuss a two or three year contract for services, extending our services based on the rates we have, and that they're

203
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Bids right now for RFPs are generally about 20% higher than what we currently pay.

204
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The market also dictates that any meetings attended by the attorneys are done at an

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hourly rate, including travel time.

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Our, we are billed a flat rate for meetings regardless of the length of the meeting.

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So that could have an effect as well on the overall cost of that service.

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But as they are generally, they recently responded to an RFP for the city of Mora.

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And general attorney's fees were $245 an hour and we're at 205.

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And they're a paralegal services were 165 and they were at 140 based on the latest bill that we received.

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Development, any work that they do related to development is passed through and is done at

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a separate rate, the private rate of the attorney, which is generally higher than what they

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built us.

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They said if they, so that's their response to this, if they do have to respond to an RFP

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from the city, they will generally work towards those market rates as opposed to the rates

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that were currently being charged.

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With that, I'll let Bolton Ming address their thoughts on this.

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Ryan, if you're right, I'll jump in and then you can add in if you want.

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Similar statement as well as presented by your legal counsel.

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I won't go through the whole memo.

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You guys get the six page breakdown of all the numbers and everything.

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A couple of things that we just touched on that we can help to essentially cut costs in town

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to try to be more efficient is just one or time in the city.

224
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In my experience, we have here familiarity with city standards, inspection practices,

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the staff as well, kind of all of that lends itself to overall lower costs, as well as having your city planner here helps a lot with the correspond all the time where you can have discussions and kind of get to where we need to quicker than we would if there was multiple firms involved.

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Our funding group plays a huge part in what we do here as well, obviously they helped a bit with the gateway, as did Ryan specifically for all of that funding, as well as the bliss project getting those funds.

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It's as far as the non-large systems go, which are going to get most of the dollars when those funds come around in those grants.

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Take away the large systems, the Rochester, the Mancado, the Deluce, and those different cities.

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Of the small cities remaining, Boltona Manc got like 74% of all the funding in the state.

230
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So it comes to that, we're really second to none with what we can provide there.

231
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The rates that we do charge for projects are all inclusive.

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So if we have survey, things like that, you're paying obviously the surveyer to come out.

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We are paying for the equipment, the drive time, or things like that, all things that are just provided under that, you know, his service,

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such things that we provide, and then we don't do markups on the different invoicing and things like that as well if we have to bring in some design or just some contractors for our own projects.

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So all that kind of lends itself to trying to lower costs, and then kind of highlights what we have in the memo.

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We do know charge currently for city council meetings, meetings beyond that, like specialised committee meetings we do it the general reduced rate.

237
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which is well below what we prevent or provide to other RFPs that go out currently.

238
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Really both are, I don't know that there's many non-Ryan clients that get free city council meetings that we do.

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So we did that we would extend the general engineering to 30 hours, which the city doesn't typically hit the 24 anyways,

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but with less projects coming up over the next couple of years, you may be using more general engineering.

241
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Those are not already here for different things so it may come in handy actually over the next two years

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And then obviously we have been here at rate locking as well Ryan and myself. So Ryan's been late rate locked for at least since

243
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2018 in Skandia and then mine would be through

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2028 then as well with Ryan's as part of our submission for 2027

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so

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Think that's pretty short and sweet Ryan. I'll let you add any more on top of that

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forward.

248
00:19:58,330 --> 00:20:01,250
Is your mic on, Brian? Thank you.

249
00:20:04,130 --> 00:20:07,430
Yeah, tonight, we're here tonight just to show our

250
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:09,410
gratification to want to continue working with you guys

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in the city. We've compromised some stuff in our

252
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letter that we prepared to you. We're willing to honor some things

253
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that will make them better. To obviously avoid an RPG

254
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just because that's our cost and time not going to that stuff.

255
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The general engineering rate that we currently have with you

256
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that we will continue with. That hasn't been offered to any community for five plus years.

257
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It's that low. So we're often went in proposals, much higher general engineering rates and

258
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charging for all means. City Council means lump sum charges. Just to try to offset some of the,

259
00:20:44,570 --> 00:20:51,370
obviously, the increased costs, inflations and stuff like that. I like my rates. I'm a principal

260
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I have authority to do that, and I have proposed to lock Isaiah's rate two.

261
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If I go out for a proposal right now, my rate's 225. Right now you get in 179,

262
00:21:03,650 --> 00:21:07,470
and you've been locked in at that for what you look into that.

263
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You can find it at least 2018, it may have been.

264
00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:15,710
So we've proposed a lock, I raised that for Isaiah and I self through 2028.

265
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and then General Engineering will just continue as is.

266
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If we do a girl from R.P., we would have to adjust that.

267
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We can't keep out that low.

268
00:21:25,050 --> 00:21:28,330
But big picture wise, the amount of funding that we have brought

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to the community is big time, right?

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I've been down at the lobby before some of you guys have been

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in the seats chasing money for the Gateway Trail.

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And now to see it all evolve.

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And we still got more and more momentum on other things going.

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one, we just want to be able to continue that and keep moving forward.

275
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And being in a community, I've been very conscious about being complacent.

276
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We're always trying to find better ways to do things for you guys, and

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the examples of that are the grading permits, soil borings.

278
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You know, it went from less old soil borings for projects right before the project.

279
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Then it was, let's do two years with the projects that we're getting with our prices to evolve

280
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and then to grow up in a trading radar.

281
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So my point is we're always looking to evolve and become more efficient and find better ways to do things for the community to see you guys dollars.

282
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So I think we've brought a lot of good information in the packet, definitely if you guys have any questions, I don't want to just sit here and

283
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:30,570
stand and keep talking about stuff that you don't know what I'm talking about, so I'm definitely here for Q&A tonight.

284
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But just to show how passionate we are for this community, we want to continue that moving forward.

285
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Thank you.

286
00:22:37,310 --> 00:22:42,730
I just want to make sure everybody knows this isn't an attack on either of our consulting

287
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firms.

288
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It's really more of a standard of practice that we should be doing on a regular basis

289
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just making sure that we are getting the best bang for our buck from all of our contractors.

290
00:22:54,090 --> 00:23:00,070
So I appreciate all the stuff that you've submitted and with that I'm going to let my other council

291
00:23:00,070 --> 00:23:00,530
members speak.

292
00:23:01,530 --> 00:23:04,530
Well, I will echo what Mayor Cron Miller says.

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I think it's just good business practice to, you know, see what's going on out in the

294
00:23:10,750 --> 00:23:13,570
world as an attorney.

295
00:23:14,590 --> 00:23:20,490
I, in legal services and lobbying, I regularly combed the secretary of states in the league

296
00:23:20,490 --> 00:23:26,170
of Minnesota City's RFPs just kind of keep an eye on what's going out there who's looking

297
00:23:26,170 --> 00:23:29,030
for what, kind of what the rates are, that type of stuff.

298
00:23:29,030 --> 00:23:36,530
So, when we talked about this last month, again, it was just as more as much as in good business practice.

299
00:23:37,970 --> 00:23:44,010
Yeah, I would agree with this. We're just doing our due diligence and like you are looking at the RFPs.

300
00:23:44,170 --> 00:23:52,210
I've talked to other communities as well and stuff like that. So this is mostly just kind of making sure that we're doing the best for our citizens.

301
00:23:52,210 --> 00:23:56,410
This isn't only about your organization directly in any way.

302
00:23:56,410 --> 00:23:59,130
Okay. Mike, did you have anything you wanted to say?

303
00:24:00,310 --> 00:24:01,890
I just want to clarify something.

304
00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:06,850
So Ryan mentioned that they have to do an RFP then the rates are going to have to go up.

305
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:11,790
Does that mean that we're just basically saying, okay,

306
00:24:12,030 --> 00:24:16,270
these other companies can submit whatever they have? And if it's not,

307
00:24:17,230 --> 00:24:20,590
like if you want to keep molding and make or the law firm then

308
00:24:20,590 --> 00:24:24,470
we would just not ask them to do an RFP and say at the current rates

309
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:25,710
and you can help clarify that.

310
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:30,170
We have not put the RFP documents out to the public yet.

311
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These are just presented to Council for review.

312
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So Council can decide based on the information they've heard

313
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tonight if they would like to publish the RFPs,

314
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or if they would like to work direct staff

315
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to work individually with Bolton and McKinneck-Berry-Lomers

316
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on bringing contracts for services forward for 27, 28

317
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and potentially 29 if they're willing to lock themselves into a rate for that long.

318
00:24:58,790 --> 00:25:05,670
So just to clarify one more time, so I don't understand. If we go to an RFP and we publish it,

319
00:25:06,010 --> 00:25:10,090
does that mean that let's say that Bolden Bank, you know, like working with them,

320
00:25:10,170 --> 00:25:15,830
there are rates, whatever are fine, that they're going to go up regardless because we did an RFP?

321
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:21,950
The indication that I've received from Eggburg Lommers and as Ryan indicated tonight,

322
00:25:21,950 --> 00:25:31,670
If the city puts out an RFP for services for either of these two consulting services, the rates that we pay will be increased in response to the RFP.

323
00:25:32,890 --> 00:25:38,570
The city, as the RFP document state, has the right to not award an RFP.

324
00:25:39,710 --> 00:25:45,690
They can go through the process, put the publication out, interview candidates decide not to award anything.

325
00:25:46,930 --> 00:25:52,010
I can't speak for whether or not either company would then honor the current rates that they have.

326
00:25:52,350 --> 00:25:54,310
That would be something that they would have to work out.

327
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:57,350
We have to work out with them after going through the process.

328
00:25:57,650 --> 00:26:01,270
So are we under any sort of contract right now or is it just a month-to-month type thing?

329
00:26:02,990 --> 00:26:07,670
I don't think we're under any sort of agreement with either provider at the moment.

330
00:26:08,170 --> 00:26:11,990
The national service agreement, you would have the ability to terminate it at any time.

331
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:20,500
And you would, too. I mean, either profession either the city or the profession.

332
00:26:20,540 --> 00:26:25,520
If it terminates as well, obviously we had we went out of business, right? We would have to terminate it.

333
00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:34,790
I, I, I definitely like the idea of, you know, making sure that our, our rates are in line with the rest of the, you know, cities and whatnot.

334
00:26:34,790 --> 00:26:44,610
But I think it also makes sense to, you know, make sure you really take a hard thought and long thought about if our rates are going to go up

335
00:26:44,610 --> 00:26:50,070
By doing this doesn't make sense, you know, I'll be called around a little bit before doing an RFP

336
00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:55,110
Some of the other cities and said hey, where are you guys at? I think that would give us a

337
00:26:56,590 --> 00:27:02,430
Pretty good idea without actually going to RFP and keep our rates hopefully the same and appreciate the relationship we have now

338
00:27:03,330 --> 00:27:04,110
Is the thought

339
00:27:05,350 --> 00:27:10,530
One thing I would just like to quickly bring up to if we guys are gonna start exploring some of that

340
00:27:10,530 --> 00:27:12,330
It's more than just looking at the rates, right?

341
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:17,050
A lot of engineering firms are going to build for surveying time, maybe even some office

342
00:27:17,050 --> 00:27:20,510
stuff, copying or whatever, and horrible wants a mileage.

343
00:27:21,310 --> 00:27:26,350
We know a lot of our competitors, when there's a subcontractor, like a geotechnical company

344
00:27:26,350 --> 00:27:32,630
doing soil borings or soil testing, they do the invoices through them, but they put a 10% mark

345
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:33,150
upon them.

346
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:34,950
We do not do that for you guys.

347
00:27:35,810 --> 00:27:39,750
So I just want to make sure that you're going to look at the big picture and not just

348
00:27:40,150 --> 00:27:43,390
I hope this guy's $5 cheaper, this guy's $10 cheaper.

349
00:27:44,530 --> 00:27:46,950
Yeah, it's not a road product. I hear we're seeing Ryan.

350
00:27:48,350 --> 00:27:52,310
So I guess my opinion would be before going to an RFP

351
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:54,550
is to try to maybe do a little more groundwork

352
00:27:54,550 --> 00:27:56,210
and call around and just see where we're at.

353
00:27:56,590 --> 00:27:58,010
But, except you guys.

354
00:27:58,650 --> 00:28:01,350
Yeah, I guess before we go.

355
00:28:01,990 --> 00:28:03,090
We have someone in the audience.

356
00:28:03,290 --> 00:28:04,490
Do you want to talk to us about this, Greg?

357
00:28:05,030 --> 00:28:05,310
No.

358
00:28:05,710 --> 00:28:06,110
Okay.

359
00:28:06,110 --> 00:28:25,090
I just wanted to be inclusive here, I don't, so I'm not seeing anybody online either so yeah, I guess I would be inclined to ask staff to dive into the proposals from both of our current firms and see where that takes us before we make a decision to go out for an RFP.

360
00:28:26,410 --> 00:28:35,250
One final thing I would add as well, when looking at rates in general, like we've got guys who range, I mean there's $100 an hour that our employees range.

361
00:28:35,630 --> 00:28:42,190
So, we can always put cheaper hourly rates on Scandia Projects as well, but we kind of do an assessment on each project

362
00:28:42,190 --> 00:28:47,010
of how quickly can this person do it at this rate versus how quickly can this person do it at a lower rate?

363
00:28:47,270 --> 00:28:49,430
And then who's the cheapest at the end of the day?

364
00:28:50,410 --> 00:28:55,650
So, you know, we have times when hourly rate might be lower on somebody, but the overall project cost is not going

365
00:28:55,650 --> 00:28:58,830
to be lower. So, those are things that we kind of evaluate project to project to try to keep them down.

366
00:28:59,330 --> 00:29:03,390
And that's something that, you know, if you're just going to be tricky to compare, that pulls to apples.

367
00:29:03,390 --> 00:29:12,210
Yeah, especially like this we certainly we clearly understand the efficiencies you guys have with the with the experience of the of the city.

368
00:29:13,630 --> 00:29:17,010
We certainly work to get proposals professional sort of secret.

369
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:24,660
Council at the next meeting. We'll see what both entities are proposing over the next couple of years before you guys make a decision. Okay. Is that agreeable? Yep. Yes. Mike? Yep. Sounds good. Yep. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Just in time, Chief.

370
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,900
Capital improvement committee discussion.

371
00:30:31,980 --> 00:30:37,580
So the cabinet went from a committee's met twice this year at the last meeting that we had.

372
00:30:41,820 --> 00:30:48,520
We kind of got into the weeds of what council wants from this committee.

373
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:54,080
It's been an ongoing topic over the last couple of years of what are we really doing?

374
00:30:54,260 --> 00:30:55,640
What are we really being asked to do?

375
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:01,560
We seem to focus a lot of time on discussion related to roads and how much money we should spend on roads.

376
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:06,900
and we brought up the idea or I brought up the idea at the last meeting based on

377
00:31:06,900 --> 00:31:11,480
council's response to the amount of debt that the city is currently carrying is

378
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:18,080
perhaps this committee can look into drafting a debt policy that the city

379
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:23,100
doesn't currently have and outline the amount of debt they think it would be

380
00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:30,160
appropriate for the city to carry and that again devolved into ongoing

381
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:35,060
Knowing discussions here after your discussions of is debt good or bad, should we do everything with cash?

382
00:31:35,940 --> 00:31:43,240
And ultimately, one of our long standing committee members said before we day one any further with the committee they would really like to hear from council.

383
00:31:43,860 --> 00:31:56,560
What council would like to see or receive from this committee before they spend any more time guessing or making decisions that ultimately can be amended or

384
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:57,740
overridden by the Council.

385
00:31:58,980 --> 00:32:05,960
We do not have the explicit discussion of this as an advisory committee and everything that they do can be overridden by Council.

386
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,000
And that most of our committees are that way.

387
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:17,660
But the committee generally agree that having direction from Council would be beneficial.

388
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,120
As far as I know, it is the only committee that we have that does not have bylaws.

389
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,980
I have not been able to find any.

390
00:32:26,140 --> 00:32:34,200
The closest thing we have found is this document right here that the mayor found that dates

391
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:43,240
back to 2017 and does some outlining of what the CIP committee was tasked with at that

392
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:43,740
time.

393
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,920
So I don't necessarily need an answer from Council tonight, but this is something that

394
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,480
was asked by the CIP committee of the council to provide them with the direction on what

395
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,840
they should be focusing on moving forward, whether it's annual, semi-annual, whatever it

396
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:02,320
ends up being.

397
00:33:04,140 --> 00:33:06,180
And so I leave it to you guys to provide them with guidance.

398
00:33:06,740 --> 00:33:12,200
Kyle and I have had a couple of conversations around the committee and the capital improvement

399
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,720
plan over the last couple of years actually.

400
00:33:17,420 --> 00:33:23,480
And I think it would be who of us to put together a charter so that the committee understands

401
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,640
what our expectations are up to them if there are any.

402
00:33:28,660 --> 00:33:32,580
But as we get into this, I found this document and I thought it was a very good explanation

403
00:33:32,580 --> 00:33:37,600
of what the capital improvement plan was and its purpose and the fact that it needs to be reviewed

404
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,600
on a regular basis, it kind of talks about all those things that would go into a charter.

405
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,040
or as we began talking about whether debt is good or bad,

406
00:33:47,650 --> 00:33:50,840
it seemed that it would be a really good thing

407
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,400
to have some financial policies in place

408
00:33:54,750 --> 00:33:56,480
to help provide some guardrails.

409
00:33:57,420 --> 00:33:57,800
And I hope.

410
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,280
I don't think financial policies that, you know,

411
00:34:00,580 --> 00:34:02,480
we could spend the rest of our lives,

412
00:34:02,580 --> 00:34:04,120
our children's lives and our grandchildren's lives

413
00:34:04,610 --> 00:34:05,400
improving roads.

414
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,600
Maybe there are other things that we as a city

415
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,640
and as a city council want to look at.

416
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:23,420
When we're spending the taxpayer money, you know, I would after watching two different committee's struggle with charter, it's an academic exercise.

417
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,440
If it's more than a paragraph long, it's too long. It really is.

418
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:38,560
The bottom line is, is this the capital committee should come together to discuss the spending of the city and to look at the ways they can do to make sure that it's proper.

419
00:34:39,300 --> 00:34:44,300
I mean, but if you get into these, you know, three, four page documents, a holy moly.

420
00:34:44,580 --> 00:34:49,920
Well, traditionally, we were focused on projects that were over $10,000, not the operating

421
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:50,280
budgets.

422
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,860
Well, I first was talking about just the whole concept of a charter.

423
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:56,420
Okay.

424
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,460
I mean, you

425
00:35:01,110 --> 00:35:05,070
know, we were talking about, like in a separate venue right now or a separate

426
00:35:05,070 --> 00:35:11,190
area, we're talking about the city's comprehensive plan, which I know we all got a copy for

427
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:15,590
our back pocket at all times so we can refer to it all the time. But it's just that. It's just

428
00:35:15,590 --> 00:35:20,690
a bunch of academic stuff. That's not how people actually operate. If they want to, they'll go back

429
00:35:20,690 --> 00:35:25,190
but pull it out of the back pocket when they need it to win an argument or something. But the bottom

430
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:31,750
line is, you know, the capital improvement pretty is there to make sure we are being judicious

431
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:37,870
in how we go forward. And I don't think we need to spend a lot of time on creating a charter that's

432
00:35:37,870 --> 00:35:43,910
on the academic exercise of well you are at the meeting and I wasn't but it sounds like they're not really sure what their

433
00:35:43,910 --> 00:35:49,410
purpose in life. Well the biggest issue is and those meetings is we're just listening to a

434
00:35:50,490 --> 00:35:55,110
listing of what's going to be spent and it's already going on the road and it's already off the door and

435
00:35:56,250 --> 00:35:58,110
that's what I felt was such that we're there

436
00:35:58,890 --> 00:36:03,450
looking at the numbers but it's it's already been determined. I mean we were meeting practically

437
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:11,370
after the fact and that's not what it should be and I think we should get this out to all

438
00:36:11,370 --> 00:36:15,350
of the council members because this is probably the first time you've seen it but there's

439
00:36:15,350 --> 00:36:19,350
a lot of things in here it's a longer document you know it's four pages it's not a paragraph

440
00:36:20,010 --> 00:36:26,270
but it talks about trying to put together basically a five-year spending plan not just okay

441
00:36:26,270 --> 00:36:31,870
the council wants to send this next year but let's look out to the future and try to manage

442
00:36:31,870 --> 00:36:36,850
our budgets so that we don't see wild shifts in spending from one year to the next,

443
00:36:37,710 --> 00:36:42,790
stagger it out. So we're not buying 20 vehicles and three road projects all in one year,

444
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:46,150
and then for two years don't do anything, you know.

445
00:36:46,430 --> 00:36:48,150
And the majority of the conversation was about debt.

446
00:36:48,670 --> 00:36:52,370
Yeah, so it's like, that's what we want that committee to do is to look out that,

447
00:36:52,370 --> 00:36:58,170
that longer thing and try to say, well, you know, where should these projects be placed

448
00:36:58,170 --> 00:37:01,010
so that we can manage our budget more effectively.

449
00:37:01,890 --> 00:37:04,870
And with the issue of debt, that is a new fund.

450
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:09,070
What is the impact of all of these projects on our debt load?

451
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:15,150
And can we continue to borrow money year after year to pay for things?

452
00:37:15,150 --> 00:37:16,930
Or should we say we don't want any debt?

453
00:37:17,150 --> 00:37:22,590
And if we want to do that, what are the consequences to our taxes going forward?

454
00:37:23,290 --> 00:37:27,190
Those kinds of discussions aren't being held enough, in my opinion.

455
00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:36,870
And I would think that the capital improvement committee would be a really good place to have that you when you said, you know, the impact or taxes going forward, you must part of that.

456
00:37:37,630 --> 00:37:41,570
What is the impact of our debt to our department heads going forward?

457
00:37:43,070 --> 00:37:48,710
Because if we didn't have the debt, they would have a, they would have a significantly bigger budget.

458
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:49,590
Yeah.

459
00:37:49,870 --> 00:37:50,710
You know, with no taxes?

460
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:55,470
To get ourselves out of a cash-based business, we used to be pretty much a cash-based business

461
00:37:55,470 --> 00:37:59,030
until the council decided that every road in town was going to be paved.

462
00:37:59,790 --> 00:38:02,690
And then, expensive just got too far out of hand.

463
00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:06,050
We had to borrow money to ensure that some of the repairs that were necessary.

464
00:38:06,810 --> 00:38:11,610
If we were to try to go back to a cash-business and say, we were going to borrow any money going

465
00:38:11,610 --> 00:38:15,650
forward, what does that mean to our taxes over the next ten years?

466
00:38:15,650 --> 00:38:26,850
And from what I'm seeing, we're talking double-digit tax increases every year, just to get out from under the current debt load if we don't borrow money going forward.

467
00:38:27,490 --> 00:38:34,850
But those are questions I think a group needs to really dive in and look at and understand and make us recommendation.

468
00:38:35,650 --> 00:38:37,590
Now if that's us, that's us.

469
00:38:38,010 --> 00:38:41,750
But I look to somebody like the capital improvement committee to help us with that.

470
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:49,190
So does the Capitol Improvement Committee and excuse me, I don't know who sits on it, do they have the sophistication to understand this stuff?

471
00:38:50,930 --> 00:38:55,670
Well, this public finance can be pretty, pretty in-depth.

472
00:38:56,130 --> 00:39:02,310
Yeah, the committee, as it's currently constructed, is made up of our two department heads.

473
00:39:03,870 --> 00:39:05,750
Again, without bylaws, we don't know.

474
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:11,450
it's three residents essentially and I think it's meant to be more than a

475
00:39:11,450 --> 00:39:16,490
three-member committee so we basically decided it's a five-member committee

476
00:39:16,490 --> 00:39:21,710
that consists of our public works director our fire chief, a representative from

477
00:39:21,710 --> 00:39:25,530
the Park and Rec Committee which is Laura Weber, a representative from the

478
00:39:25,530 --> 00:39:31,270
Planning Commission which is Mary Cullen and an at-large appointee who is

479
00:39:33,010 --> 00:39:36,430
Those are the five members of the committee at the moment.

480
00:39:37,250 --> 00:39:41,530
The council member, the council liaison on myself are just, I'm there as a director

481
00:39:41,530 --> 00:39:42,170
of the committee.

482
00:39:42,350 --> 00:39:47,030
I present the information and the council member is just the council liaison but it is right

483
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:48,250
now a five member committee.

484
00:39:49,310 --> 00:39:57,110
It is if we are thinking about larger scale discussions about debt policy and long term

485
00:39:57,110 --> 00:40:03,590
of spending? Is that the right number of people? I don't know. But to your point, the more

486
00:40:03,590 --> 00:40:07,510
people you have, you still have to make sure that they understand what you're talking

487
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:12,730
about, because you've been spending most of your time educating and not a lot of time developing,

488
00:40:14,010 --> 00:40:15,410
depending on who's on the committee.

489
00:40:16,350 --> 00:40:21,110
I guess I don't know Laura Weber's background well enough, but I would think all of the other

490
00:40:21,110 --> 00:40:24,090
members have a pretty good handle on budgeting, I think?

491
00:40:25,050 --> 00:40:26,090
Well, it's more than budgeting.

492
00:40:26,750 --> 00:40:28,270
I mean, it's public finance.

493
00:40:29,930 --> 00:40:35,350
And so it's, and maybe you don't, like, I don't know.

494
00:40:35,570 --> 00:40:37,150
I've got a master's in public administration

495
00:40:37,150 --> 00:40:38,830
and a lot of years of public finance.

496
00:40:40,270 --> 00:40:42,270
And it was an executive budget officer

497
00:40:42,270 --> 00:40:43,450
for the state for many years.

498
00:40:43,870 --> 00:40:47,750
So it can, especially when you're going into debt

499
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:53,130
load and things like that, it's not just necessarily revenues and expenses, you know.

500
00:40:55,450 --> 00:41:01,470
I will say that I was on that committee for a year, I think, before Jim joined the

501
00:41:01,470 --> 00:41:07,950
city council and, you know, for me personally, I would say I'm an expert by any means.

502
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:13,650
And we did have a plan that we reviewed that showed, you know, so many years out, like 10 years

503
00:41:13,650 --> 00:41:18,270
out that showed where each one of the large expenses were coming so I did feel like we

504
00:41:18,270 --> 00:41:22,070
did a good job of talking through that and trying to make sure there wasn't too much in

505
00:41:22,070 --> 00:41:28,210
any one year but as for the debt discussion to me that seems more like a city council discussion

506
00:41:28,210 --> 00:41:35,690
and philosophy and you know more people who have more expertise I guess I mean definitely more

507
00:41:35,690 --> 00:41:41,410
than myself because like from a study standpoint it's like that was a good question that I

508
00:41:41,410 --> 00:41:46,810
had is trying to raise the cash fund that we had available. How many, like, how

509
00:41:46,810 --> 00:41:50,950
much is actually needed? And we talked about this a whole bunch of Ryan and I

510
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:55,090
think what Isaiah was there to trying to understand like what that actually

511
00:41:55,090 --> 00:42:01,050
looks like. So to me, that's that's that part of it is on our level to determine

512
00:42:01,050 --> 00:42:02,510
that because we're elected officials.

513
00:42:04,610 --> 00:42:06,110
I just think there needs to be a group of

514
00:42:06,110 --> 00:42:09,070
people looking at it. Whether it's the capital improvement committee or

515
00:42:09,070 --> 00:42:14,010
to see the council so be it, but there needs to be somebody who's taking a serious look

516
00:42:14,010 --> 00:42:15,230
at it.

517
00:42:15,230 --> 00:42:16,470
You know, by the 10 years out.

518
00:42:16,730 --> 00:42:24,050
To council member Gribble's comments about, it feels like they're just reviewing things

519
00:42:24,050 --> 00:42:25,370
that have already been approved.

520
00:42:27,790 --> 00:42:31,350
You know, the documents that are presented are the same one.

521
00:42:31,410 --> 00:42:37,650
The council sees the capital fund documents, and those placeholder expenses in the future

522
00:42:37,650 --> 00:42:45,910
are there for future expense. Now, we previous councils have delayed some of those expenditures.

523
00:42:47,790 --> 00:42:51,730
And part of that delay is kind of why we're in the position that we're in, having purchased

524
00:42:51,730 --> 00:42:57,870
as many vehicles as we have over the last 18 months. We've done our, well, not, I'm not

525
00:42:57,870 --> 00:43:02,850
going to say we've done our best, but we have tried to space out future expenditures for vehicles

526
00:43:07,130 --> 00:43:32,570
but it may be that the committee doesn't feel like it either has the authority or has been given the authority to ask specific questions, to challenge the requests or the placeholders that staff have put in there, and maybe that needs to come with a part of a charter or direction from council on, you know, instead of having that debate.

527
00:43:32,570 --> 00:43:39,590
And a council meeting that is where the committee will have that discussion of is this, you know, essentially justifying the expense.

528
00:43:41,770 --> 00:43:51,650
You know, there are certainly policies that we could implement internally as staff to help explain why those expenditures are marked the way they are.

529
00:43:53,750 --> 00:44:00,730
But the concern that I would have is that, you know, the discussions have been extreme.

530
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:26,460
I can't buy anything until something is completely broken and not usable. And those are extremes that we just can't operate under either one of them. There has to be a middle ground in which we have an acceptable replacement policy for equipment. We have a basic understanding of what borrowing, if any, we will have whether it's by department or by the city as a whole.

531
00:45:27,620 --> 00:45:32,780
and generally what, you know, the discussion we started with around debt was we're currently

532
00:45:32,780 --> 00:45:36,880
at about 20% of our levy goes towards debt.

533
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:44,180
If we're going to look at developing a policy around debt, what marker do we want to use?

534
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:45,820
Is it percentage of levy?

535
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,200
Is it number of bond issuances in any given time?

536
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,640
the fire chief had referenced at one point the township

537
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,380
and generally have a policy of no more than two bonds

538
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,440
outstanding at any time.

539
00:46:00,820 --> 00:46:02,980
So you wouldn't even think about issuing another one

540
00:46:02,980 --> 00:46:06,080
until the, you know, one of the previous ones expires.

541
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,220
Is that a policy that we carry forward?

542
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,160
You know, the unfortunate thing that everyone is facing

543
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:18,940
and not only us, but things are a lot more expensive

544
00:46:18,940 --> 00:46:24,500
than they were. The cost of the fire trucks, the cost of the plow trucks, far exceed what

545
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:29,220
they have been in the past. Now our levees reflect that cost of an increase. Obviously, we are not

546
00:46:29,220 --> 00:46:36,180
collecting the same amount of money we did 10 years ago. But we have to find balance within that

547
00:46:36,700 --> 00:46:42,060
and some guiding documentation or policy or even just a general understanding amongst

548
00:46:42,820 --> 00:46:49,080
the CIC committee and the council about what that would be will help staff better understand

549
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,820
how we can earmark funds in that five-year window.

550
00:46:54,220 --> 00:46:57,120
We generally look out two to three years, five years at the most.

551
00:46:57,260 --> 00:47:04,600
I think we went out to 32 in the discussion, knowing that Mike has items out to 20 feet because

552
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,840
we just know we need a new engine by 20, 51 or whatever it is.

553
00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:18,800
But yeah, we, it would be helpful, you know, and if this is the document we want to start on, this gives us a great place to start.

554
00:47:19,500 --> 00:47:24,960
It was not aware that this document existed, otherwise probably would have brought this to the committee and said this is what was approved.

555
00:47:25,780 --> 00:47:28,760
You know, nine years ago, was it still kind of the guidance that we want to provide?

556
00:47:30,020 --> 00:47:36,920
But the committee is really looking for some direction, not really wanting to spend a lot of time spending its wheels discussing matters

557
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,960
There's that either don't matter or aren't taken seriously.

558
00:47:41,460 --> 00:47:41,800
Absolutely.

559
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:44,620
I wouldn't want to see that happen to you.

560
00:47:45,900 --> 00:47:48,260
And I have another question just on the committee process.

561
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:54,720
So we've got five members of the CIC committee with the council liaison.

562
00:47:55,620 --> 00:47:59,960
Is there anything that prohibits a city council person from being a member of a committee?

563
00:48:00,420 --> 00:48:01,620
Or is that just not what we do?

564
00:48:01,620 --> 00:48:14,700
I don't think there's anything that prohibits it, but it's never been something the city has done before, keeping in mind that any, if there's three or more council members on the committee are scheduled to be there, it's now an open meeting of the council.

565
00:48:15,300 --> 00:48:18,020
I just think it might make the committee work.

566
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:26,880
And I'll just speak from my own experience as a liaison, I don't necessarily really feel like I'm contributing.

567
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:41,200
And so, maybe the contribution is not contributing, but so my preference would be, if I'm going to spend hours at a time sitting in a chair, I'd prefer to contribute.

568
00:48:41,980 --> 00:48:49,560
And I know that some committee members prefer that rather than waiting until I get to City Council to hear what I think.

569
00:48:53,260 --> 00:48:59,840
So like a firework to be a member of the CIC, I would want to be an active partner.

570
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,400
And we have the EDA has two council members on it.

571
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,140
There's just seven member board and we have two council members as voting members of the EDA.

572
00:49:09,740 --> 00:49:21,220
There's no reason we couldn't do the same thing for the CIC in a point to second council member and then open up to a third another seat to get seven members if we wanted to do that.

573
00:49:22,700 --> 00:49:30,520
When I'm the liaison to the internet committee and I consider myself an active participant, I can't vote, but I'm pretty vocal.

574
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:40,880
So some of the thing is it goes back to the very core of the council and the approach to our projections of future budgets.

575
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:41,900
It really does.

576
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:49,860
I mean, we're talking about the road improvements and stuff like that.

577
00:49:50,580 --> 00:49:56,920
Well, one projection is that it's going to cost us X amount of dollars from other ones going to cost us significantly less.

578
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:01,200
well, you know, based upon how the council approaches it, you know,

579
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,220
it's determined significantly how you're going to approach that question.

580
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,180
You know, if we're going to operate just continually borrowing money in the future,

581
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,220
then we can take that role to ever not going to do that.

582
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,180
We're going to try to go the other way, we're going to find a different way to do it.

583
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,140
And that trick was done right into that meeting.

584
00:50:20,380 --> 00:50:24,620
At least it does to me because when the other civilians are asked,

585
00:50:24,620 --> 00:50:28,580
They're comfortable with that, they all said zero, they don't want the debt.

586
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:40,380
So yeah, the unfortunate part with the amount of debt that we have specifically related to roads is there's no real mechanism for

587
00:50:40,380 --> 00:50:41,720
the city to pay that off early.

588
00:50:42,660 --> 00:50:54,440
Certainly we can, you know, not at least the 2018 bond has passed its call date, it could be paid off, but the amount of money that the city would need to make that payment is just not feasible.

589
00:50:54,440 --> 00:51:00,180
Now, the vehicle ones, we could certainly work on paying those down early, they're much

590
00:51:00,180 --> 00:51:06,340
more manageable, but getting out of debt, the only really feasible way to do it is just

591
00:51:06,340 --> 00:51:14,120
to not issue any more, and let the current road debt expire when it's done in 2023, 23rd

592
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,040
to 3 and 2044.

593
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,480
Yeah, it's going to be a 15-year process or 10-year process, for sure.

594
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:19,540
Okay.

595
00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:20,860
Oh, it's Janice.

596
00:51:21,580 --> 00:51:24,120
Those have a 30-year life roughly.

597
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,540
So yeah, it's a pitch not short-term at all.

598
00:51:29,860 --> 00:51:31,020
You two are both on the committee.

599
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:32,720
What are your impressions?

600
00:51:39,300 --> 00:51:42,900
Just my impressions of the meetings

601
00:51:42,900 --> 00:51:45,160
that I've been a part of since I've been here

602
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,920
is the difficulty I think it was already brought up

603
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:53,460
of having resident members that just may not understand

604
00:51:53,800 --> 00:52:00,000
the process, like Kirsten had mentioned, physically, but also just equipment wise, or

605
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:08,740
depending on what the project is, not being a full knowledge in that come fire trucks or

606
00:52:08,740 --> 00:52:13,900
plow trucks, they see the price, and it's a lot, I will admit.

607
00:52:15,020 --> 00:52:22,000
But that understanding of why is it so much, and just taking that time, especially as

608
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:27,080
members, new members come on, we're just having those same conversations over and over again

609
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:37,860
of why is that so much so that that's my take on it. On the resident member side, I think

610
00:52:37,860 --> 00:52:44,920
we do a good job at structuring, putting pieces of equipment or projects out at certain years,

611
00:52:45,220 --> 00:52:51,220
I think we have a good replacement schedule and even our equipment has bounced around a bit,

612
00:52:51,220 --> 00:52:53,380
that especially these last two to three years

613
00:52:53,380 --> 00:52:56,260
were putting a truck here instead of there

614
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,020
or moving things around, even just on a staff level,

615
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:02,060
even before these meetings take place.

616
00:53:02,540 --> 00:53:06,900
So I will say, I feel we do a good job

617
00:53:07,340 --> 00:53:10,320
at projecting out these replacements

618
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:11,760
just on a staff level.

619
00:53:12,300 --> 00:53:12,320
So.

620
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,880
And I'm going to what Mike said in Concentred Riverville said.

621
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:28,600
And maybe that's what committee work is about and then committee work comes to the council level and the council has a discussion and then takes it from there.

622
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:30,540
I mean, and maybe that's the role.

623
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:36,960
So it's in both work, both models work.

624
00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:46,180
And part of the, again, not having bylaws, not having a set meeting schedule, the committee

625
00:53:46,180 --> 00:53:51,600
generally meets late winter early spring in advance of budget discussions, and then

626
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,080
generally does not meet again for another year.

627
00:53:55,940 --> 00:54:04,120
May not be the best schedule and that we're not maintaining and building on previous

628
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:09,140
previous discussions or waiting too long to do that so that we're re-educating.

629
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:17,380
Another thing that we may want to consider is instead of having dedicated appointees

630
00:54:17,380 --> 00:54:23,080
from various subcommittees, maybe we just have all at large council or residents that way

631
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:28,340
if they choose to move off of their committee, they don't necessarily have to move off of the

632
00:54:28,340 --> 00:54:29,660
capital improvement committee.

633
00:54:29,660 --> 00:54:37,740
We ended up losing, so Perry Reinders was on, was the planning commission, but because

634
00:54:37,740 --> 00:54:43,820
he resigned from the planning commission, he could no longer sit on the Capitol Improving

635
00:54:43,820 --> 00:54:46,820
Committee because that seat is designated for a planning commission member.

636
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:52,460
But if we remove that requirement of planning commission member and park and rec commission

637
00:54:52,460 --> 00:54:58,980
member and just have at large residents, perhaps you gain the continuity of those people wanting

638
00:54:58,980 --> 00:55:04,840
to be on the committee for many years so that we don't spend a couple hours a year re-educating,

639
00:55:05,540 --> 00:55:08,720
re-informing before we can actually have a meaningful discussion.

640
00:55:09,500 --> 00:55:17,120
Right, and I don't know, again, what are with Council Member Gervell and myself being

641
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:21,120
the two newest members, what are the council's priorities?

642
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,420
Do we give that direction to the committee?

643
00:55:24,020 --> 00:55:31,840
do we or are we so caught in the debt girdle that we can't breathe? Does the committee

644
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:36,920
look at other funding sources? Are there other funding sources that are worth looking

645
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:43,140
at? I've made no secret about the improvements that could be made around this place for many

646
00:55:43,140 --> 00:55:48,780
different reasons and for many different purposes and are the places to go to get this money,

647
00:55:48,780 --> 00:56:07,800
But that is a planning process, you know, the capital bonding bill is a two to four year process, and so it's something that we can look at and start planning for, and start looking at other sources of revenue to help us get there, you know.

648
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:16,040
Yeah, so I've been on the committee a long time and through different groups and whatnot.

649
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:26,460
And over the years, they've always focused on the money part of it and it bogged them

650
00:56:26,460 --> 00:56:26,660
down.

651
00:56:26,940 --> 00:56:33,540
If they got away from that part and focused on prioritizing, not just to find, but making

652
00:56:33,540 --> 00:56:37,700
I'm sure that items fit within some parameter that you set.

653
00:56:39,460 --> 00:56:40,760
They have much better outcomes.

654
00:56:41,620 --> 00:56:45,040
When they start trying to find money, they're not that kind.

655
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:46,680
They don't have the authority to look for money.

656
00:56:46,980 --> 00:56:48,520
I don't think that's the right route to go.

657
00:56:50,580 --> 00:56:56,620
But I think if you want to keep a planning commission, it would be, or CIP,

658
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:03,240
it would be to make sure that the items meet the requirements of why they're in a

659
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:09,160
CIP and maybe prioritize them, but when they try to determine funding and stuff like

660
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:15,780
that, I think that falls back to the council's because you're the ones that make the funding.

661
00:57:16,380 --> 00:57:17,660
They can make a recommendation.

662
00:57:17,940 --> 00:57:23,720
They did, I forget if it was the 18-year-old project or which one they're the ones that made

663
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:28,620
a recommendation to the council to do a bond, to catch up on some of these bad roads.

664
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:42,020
But I think if you make a charter or whatever, I think it would have to be evaluated by you guys every election year because this group changes their mind very frequently too.

665
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:43,780
As new members come on.

666
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:45,120
We never change them.

667
00:57:48,340 --> 00:57:53,880
There's different priorities and I wrote a letter because I didn't think I'd be here.

668
00:57:55,020 --> 00:58:00,240
But I've been on this for a long time and it's just a spin your wheels through it, they talk.

669
00:58:01,380 --> 00:58:12,920
You get new people all the time, so they, it spends the first meeting just bringing them up to speed, because unless people are on a committee or personally affects them, no one takes any interest in.

670
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:16,500
and so if there was more continuity and maybe a bit more

671
00:58:16,500 --> 00:58:18,380
frequently, would that help?

672
00:58:18,940 --> 00:58:22,980
I don't know, I guess I get very frustrated

673
00:58:22,980 --> 00:58:24,680
going to the meetings because yeah,

674
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,900
we always end up back on roads arguing about

675
00:58:28,900 --> 00:58:32,460
what level road we should keep or what grade,

676
00:58:32,820 --> 00:58:34,500
you know, we do the favor scoring

677
00:58:34,500 --> 00:58:38,920
and it always comes to that and how do we fund that

678
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:40,620
and everything else gets pushed aside.

679
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:48,000
so why bother? If you want that make a road improvement committee because

680
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,520
that's what they've done for the last 15 years that I've been on.

681
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:54,520
Greg, would

682
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:56,080
you want to talk about this at all?

683
00:58:59,020 --> 00:59:01,140
If you do, could you come into the mic?

684
00:59:03,310 --> 00:59:04,270
Questions, comments?

685
00:59:04,550 --> 00:59:05,230
Turn on the mic.

686
00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:06,290
Sorry.

687
00:59:07,110 --> 00:59:07,810
There you go.

688
00:59:07,970 --> 00:59:08,130
Is there?

689
00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:08,610
Okay.

690
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:10,190
Questions, comment.

691
00:59:10,570 --> 00:59:14,470
As part committee chair, we do encourage you to be part of the committee and contribute.

692
00:59:15,370 --> 00:59:16,750
Like Steve said, you're.

693
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:06,700
And like, especially Patty, took on some of projects and stuff to do herself. So, yeah, we had occurred to be like a regular member.

694
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:28,280
And I was on the park, the conference of the plant committee back when we became a city. And what I, the way we talked about a lot of things that we typically, a lot of people that ended up there were people that had an agenda. Somebody that wanted lived in a four per 40, wanted to make that little area, a two and a half acre,

695
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,780
or make a cluster out of it or whatever.

696
01:00:32,500 --> 01:00:35,140
And of course we had somebody lived by the gravel pit

697
01:00:35,140 --> 01:00:36,580
that wanted to get rid of the gravel pits.

698
01:00:38,500 --> 01:00:40,320
So I don't know, maybe in screening people

699
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:41,940
ask them why they want to be on a committee.

700
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:44,820
If they're looking at the city as a whole,

701
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,680
and we've even had people, I guess you'd say,

702
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,020
stumping for themselves, you know.

703
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,460
Well, here, if what for me to do this,

704
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,940
and I'll do this, I don't think you need

705
01:00:57,940 --> 01:00:59,740
I think they're better for the city, you know,

706
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:01,020
it's not where I'm here for.

707
01:01:02,500 --> 01:01:03,940
So, just two cents worth.

708
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:05,160
Okay, thank you.

709
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:09,080
I don't know that we're gonna be able to make

710
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:10,980
a good decision tonight, honestly.

711
01:01:11,220 --> 01:01:12,620
There's a lot to think about.

712
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:14,820
I think to just, to me,

713
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,800
the one of the things we need to just think about is,

714
01:01:18,740 --> 01:01:19,740
you know, how are you gonna progress?

715
01:01:20,020 --> 01:01:21,780
You know, I mean, you know, do we try to,

716
01:01:22,500 --> 01:01:24,200
you know, find funding and stuff like that?

717
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:25,720
And then you mentioned in the past, you know,

718
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:30,640
maybe cutting back a little bit on our annual road improvement programs.

719
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,680
And I don't want to establish your roads, but at the same point,

720
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,700
it's just like, I'll just point it to the top of 197,

721
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:42,260
the little stretch between the highway and the top of the hill.

722
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:45,760
Yeah, it's going to be more economical to replace it.

723
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:50,100
But I don't know what that little stretch of asphalt would cost.

724
01:01:50,340 --> 01:01:53,400
I have no idea, you know, $50,000 or something.

725
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:56,140
But nobody's driving on that road.

726
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:59,140
I mean, there's 12 seasonal places at the bottom of the hill.

727
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:00,080
They're already going slow.

728
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:05,460
I mean, it's just a little savings that can be on top of,

729
01:02:06,020 --> 01:02:08,540
now it's up not a $350,000 block truck.

730
01:02:08,540 --> 01:02:09,900
It's a $300,000 product.

731
01:02:10,540 --> 01:02:12,860
I mean, we're going to have to look at little things, you know.

732
01:02:13,700 --> 01:02:16,220
We did a bunch of little roads over on Manning

733
01:02:16,220 --> 01:02:18,020
because they were all kind of, you know,

734
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:19,620
close together in small projects.

735
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:21,980
Well, this is a small project,

736
01:02:21,980 --> 01:02:23,580
but we just kind of threw it in there

737
01:02:23,580 --> 01:02:25,320
because it was on the top of 197th.

738
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,200
Well, that was pretty convenient,

739
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,500
but really, what are we getting out of it?

740
01:02:29,580 --> 01:02:31,960
We're getting a nice smooth road to go to a,

741
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:33,700
I think, about a 10-month-hour hill.

742
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:36,500
You know, and I don't know what the long-term game

743
01:02:36,500 --> 01:02:38,340
is that's gonna be, you know.

744
01:02:38,820 --> 01:02:40,820
So I think the way we need to do this

745
01:02:41,380 --> 01:02:42,220
is nickel and dime.

746
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:43,640
People don't climb mountains and won't stop.

747
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:45,180
They climb one step at a time.

748
01:02:47,620 --> 01:02:51,600
I like my idea of having like a separate,

749
01:02:52,300 --> 01:03:01,320
Roads grew because I do agree having sat through it for one year and being on there that the focus and on the discussion was on the roads

750
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:07,380
And we were trying to figure out you know, what is the expectation of the community and I would say it did

751
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:09,100
take away from

752
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:16,800
You know really maybe analyzing some of the other expenditures more because there's only so much time that you will have a

753
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:18,720
I got attention span for in those meetings

754
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:22,980
So I think that would be a good thing to look at.

755
01:03:26,270 --> 01:03:31,230
I guess I would suggest that we send the link to this document out all of you.

756
01:03:32,070 --> 01:03:39,350
So we all kind of have the same starting point and get that together at our next workshop.

757
01:03:39,910 --> 01:03:42,090
And well, at least have you on a common ground.

758
01:03:42,570 --> 01:03:44,210
And maybe we can make some good decisions.

759
01:03:44,650 --> 01:03:48,450
I like the idea of maybe splitting off a road committee because that.

760
01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:53,410
That has been talked about for as long as I've been on this council and we've never really

761
01:03:53,410 --> 01:03:59,860
have figured out the silver bowl, so to speak, I don't know that there is one, but it's

762
01:03:59,860 --> 01:04:00,660
a tough project.

763
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:03,780
Yeah, it kind of feels like the waste water committee, right?

764
01:04:03,900 --> 01:04:09,620
Like we have a whole committee designated towards that because it's such a large piece of

765
01:04:09,620 --> 01:04:13,480
our budget and large item that this is kind of a similar thing.

766
01:04:15,420 --> 01:04:21,460
I don't necessarily know if we need another subcommittee, but if this committee meets on a regular

767
01:04:21,460 --> 01:04:26,560
basis, then they can handle that additional topic if we're meeting more consistently.

768
01:04:28,460 --> 01:04:34,080
With stated goals and objectives, then we can dedicate a meeting or two over three or four

769
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:40,980
months of a year to have that discussion, bring a recommendation to council that can help frame

770
01:04:41,940 --> 01:04:48,900
future CIC meeting discussions going forward. Yeah, that makes sense.

771
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:54,440
Because it's been there's just another group of people that needs to be brought up to speed

772
01:04:54,440 --> 01:05:00,160
and you know, so I think yeah for it can be a task of this committee and we can make it

773
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:04,720
or ensure that we are meeting frequent enough that we're able to accomplish this in addition

774
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:11,160
to the five-year planning that this document outlines but yes we can put this on the work session

775
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:14,660
and not go over for a follow-up. We've talked about a couple maybe a couple of different

776
01:05:14,660 --> 01:05:20,860
members or frequent meetings or specific direction.

777
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:27,320
Yeah, I can also try and put together just some draft by-laws using like the EDA by-laws

778
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:29,000
or something like that as a framework.

779
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:29,700
Okay.

780
01:05:30,380 --> 01:05:34,800
Not make it too long so it's easy to understand, no, yeah, we'll get something like that together

781
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:35,160
as well.

782
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,040
Maybe not tying it to our committees, like you said, can help.

783
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:39,640
Okay.

784
01:05:40,100 --> 01:05:40,640
Better continuity.

785
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:45,260
Yeah, I'll just reiterate Mike's point of creating those guidelines.

786
01:05:45,940 --> 01:05:52,880
Like we already have our internal schedule for each piece of equipment actually having that in a document.

787
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,940
Like the mower is replaced just every eight years.

788
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:08,260
So it's on the eight year schedule plot trap 12 15 depending on piece of equipment so that that group doesn't get stuck in the weed saying,

789
01:06:08,260 --> 01:06:11,740
Well, let's replace it at 10, or let's replace it at 20.

790
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:14,380
The schedule is, it says 12.

791
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:18,560
So that's, I like that point.

792
01:06:18,980 --> 01:06:22,160
And then this group, when gets stuck in weeds on trying

793
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:23,840
to figure out replacement schedule,

794
01:06:24,020 --> 01:06:28,720
because like, and whoever sits in a director role

795
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:30,620
has more experience than that.

796
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:34,040
So, I have certain things that you do have a schedule on.

797
01:06:34,100 --> 01:06:36,600
We like a little bit of flexibility on the schedule,

798
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:44,410
But in just and they're looking I think for those kind of guidelines so yeah, okay, thank you

799
01:06:45,980 --> 01:06:48,820
Any more conversation before we move on to the budget

800
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:53,780
Okay, so limited graph budget update Kyle

801
01:06:54,420 --> 01:06:59,120
Yeah, I thought long and hard about putting together a nice long presentation for you guys because in a home

802
01:06:59,120 --> 01:06:59,840
Would you love it?

803
01:07:00,500 --> 01:07:03,020
But then I realized I should do that again in about two weeks

804
01:07:03,020 --> 01:07:08,580
as we, because we will approve our not to exceed budget at our September meeting.

805
01:07:09,420 --> 01:07:17,080
So I basically just copied the levy table from the presentation and just showed the changes

806
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:19,940
between what was presented in October and where we're at at the moment.

807
01:07:21,420 --> 01:07:29,780
So we do have a slight reduction in our overall net levy at about $24,000,

808
01:07:30,500 --> 01:07:35,280
which is about 0.22% reduction in the overall increase.

809
01:07:35,500 --> 01:07:37,640
So we're still looking at about a 6.3% increase.

810
01:07:38,540 --> 01:07:43,180
We have not heard yet from any of our insurance providers

811
01:07:43,180 --> 01:07:46,780
and then certainly if we are able to secure rates

812
01:07:47,300 --> 01:07:50,360
with professional service agreements with legal and engineering

813
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,760
that can obviously have an effect on those line items as well.

814
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,400
But yeah, we're generally holding pretty steady,

815
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,720
but we are a little bit lower than we were in August.

816
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:08,400
So I'm saying we'll have a full, a more comprehensive presentation in a couple of weeks here explaining

817
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:13,660
some of these changes, but this is felt all that was necessarily needed tonight.

818
01:08:14,500 --> 01:08:19,980
And we will do a similar one in October as well, just to kind of keep you up to date on not

819
01:08:19,980 --> 01:08:21,260
any changes that may have been made.

820
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:28,200
Okay. Okay. Any feedback for Kyle on this? Any other direction and what he's already

821
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:28,520
doing?

822
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:34,640
I'm just going to throw it there, you know, just as a mental thought. I was

823
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:40,180
looking at the, you know, the turs lovey, you know, I agree we should have something

824
01:08:40,180 --> 01:08:47,680
there, but I'm mean, we have the did any expenditures happen in 26. I mean, you know, that

825
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:50,620
that fund it should be building, but you know.

826
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:53,160
Yeah, that's in here as a fuller.

827
01:08:53,420 --> 01:08:55,380
I think as the committee has discussed whether or not,

828
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,060
it actually needs to continue to function.

829
01:08:57,740 --> 01:09:00,340
If they choose not to, then that money can be folded

830
01:09:00,340 --> 01:09:04,340
into any of those other funds, whether it be folded into EDA

831
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:09,580
or folded into just a general fund.

832
01:09:10,140 --> 01:09:12,380
I think before the tourism committee was formed,

833
01:09:12,380 --> 01:09:14,740
I think generally any expenses related to tourism

834
01:09:14,740 --> 01:09:16,740
came out of the economic development authority.

835
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:23,480
And before the tourism actually had a dedicated levy everything was paid for out of the EDA levy

836
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:26,100
So if they choose not to operate

837
01:09:27,460 --> 01:09:34,100
We can roll that into EDA or we can just get rid of that line item and just have it come out of EDA to begin with

838
01:09:34,100 --> 01:09:39,120
That's something that what I'm looking at is those balances will be growing and I don't want to see it grow and all of a sudden

839
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:45,020
It's I don't know about $1,000 and all of a sudden so let's do this. You know, and there's a some oil project

840
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:49,900
So that you raise a good point, we do an annual budget, right?

841
01:09:51,060 --> 01:09:59,860
And so an annual budget, I don't know if we quite do zero-based budgeting, but so we don't.

842
01:10:02,300 --> 01:10:08,320
So tourism, loudly, brings in $3,000 a year if it's not spent, do they get a save it?

843
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:12,780
It stays in the fund yet, but I don't think they spent the four from

844
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,480
26. No, they would not have spent everything in 2026.

845
01:10:20,660 --> 01:10:24,620
But there's no expectation. I mean the expectation is as we do in annual budget.

846
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:29,780
Historically, that has been the policy of the council. I take that back.

847
01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:33,880
Historically, that has been what has been presented by staff and accepted by council.

848
01:10:34,440 --> 01:10:40,700
I don't think any discussion has been had about if you have enough money in the fund to cover your planning.

849
01:10:40,700 --> 01:10:47,060
expenses then there will no will not be any additional revenue because we can cover expenses through existing.

850
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:53,940
Well, when we look at the fund budgets, those documents as you share with us go out to 32 and they show each of the budgets

851
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:58,320
with some basic assumptions on inflation.

852
01:10:59,260 --> 01:11:04,880
And so we get to see those and we can say that, okay, we've got to begin a fund balance.

853
01:11:05,060 --> 01:11:09,880
We don't need to levy anything here because we'll just use the fund balance to pay for it.

854
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:11,780
Those are our options that we have.

855
01:11:13,740 --> 01:11:19,640
I haven't seen it done a lot that way, other than like with roads we have from the fund

856
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:19,940
balance.

857
01:11:20,100 --> 01:11:24,740
Yeah, generally our capital funds utilize existing fund balance in the last couple of

858
01:11:24,740 --> 01:11:30,560
years, particularly the 401 and the 408 fund, the general capital fund and the road fund

859
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:35,160
have utilized existing fund balance to do projects that exceed the annual living.

860
01:11:37,140 --> 01:11:38,900
Obviously, we can't do that with the general fund.

861
01:11:38,900 --> 01:11:41,280
we just don't have that much money in reserve.

862
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:49,680
And then the two funds that we've, we have the EDA levy in 2024.

863
01:11:50,480 --> 01:11:55,680
It went away in 2025 because we didn't have an EDA, we reconstituted the EDA, added it in 2006.

864
01:11:57,340 --> 01:12:02,900
But the EDA has an existing fund balance of just over $40,000 left over from the previous iteration of the EDA.

865
01:12:03,660 --> 01:12:08,040
So based on their projected expenses, which is between $4,000 and $5,000,

866
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,560
They really doesn't need to be an ADA levy.

867
01:12:11,540 --> 01:12:12,640
Same thing with tourism.

868
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:16,760
They do not exceed their expenses.

869
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:19,200
Do not exceed the projected revenue from this year.

870
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:20,220
So then why?

871
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,340
So if you have budget,

872
01:12:24,700 --> 01:12:26,300
and you have the money to spend,

873
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:28,720
and the money should be used,

874
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:30,420
let's just say for tourism,

875
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:35,060
it's because we couldn't think of any advantageous way

876
01:12:35,060 --> 01:12:42,580
to send that money for Scandia on tourism or why didn't we spend it?

877
01:12:42,700 --> 01:12:50,820
The levy was established for 2026 based on previous spending and they're not spending

878
01:12:50,820 --> 01:12:51,580
at that level.

879
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:58,540
EDA was the original EDA levy was $5,900 a year.

880
01:12:59,480 --> 01:13:02,960
It went up to I think $6,000 this year.

881
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:10,340
I did seven next year because the EDA tourism had been about ten, so I just, but neither

882
01:13:10,340 --> 01:13:12,820
fund spends to the levy amount.

883
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:19,920
There is some discussion amongst the EDA about revolving loan funds related to assisting

884
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:24,680
local businesses in order to do that, that fund will need to grow some way.

885
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:26,700
Gee, there's another idea.

886
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:32,880
But at $7,000 a year, it doesn't grow very fast.

887
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:37,980
if that's, you know, that's how we, depending on the policy of the, of the loan,

888
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:43,100
generally you take a second behind a bank, but if the small business can't get a bank loan,

889
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:49,040
then you generally wouldn't, you wouldn't assist them, or you are taking the risk of not getting your

890
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:55,460
money back, if you still want to issue the loan, with some like maybe assessment agreement behind it.

891
01:13:56,300 --> 01:14:02,620
That's a discussion that has briefly been touched on at the EDA, has been requested by

892
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:08,000
Program. But they haven't flashed out that whole concept yet and then how to fund it. We had a facade

893
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:13,420
improvement program and that's where a lot of the money was put into. But we haven't had

894
01:15:13,420 --> 01:15:21,740
any applicants. It was easier and cheaper to pay for yourself for some program.

895
01:15:29,460 --> 01:15:29,980
They're

896
01:15:29,980 --> 01:15:35,320
that a version of taxpayers then giving grants to businesses to improve the facades.

897
01:15:36,020 --> 01:15:37,760
I don't think that would be very popular.

898
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:40,040
Interesting idea that didn't work.

899
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,700
Nothing is going to be popular 100% of the time.

900
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:48,360
I would hope at least 10% would be hard one in that one.

901
01:15:49,820 --> 01:15:56,580
I said on the Economic Development Committee for the North End in St. Paul and we do grants

902
01:15:56,580 --> 01:15:58,520
and loans of millions of dollars a year.

903
01:15:59,580 --> 01:16:08,080
And if we give a facade grant, it is with the idea it makes everything, the one is that the rising letter makes it better.

904
01:16:08,540 --> 01:16:10,020
Yeah, yeah, lifts all boats.

905
01:16:13,690 --> 01:16:15,870
Like if only Charlie would go mo my mom.

906
01:16:19,210 --> 01:16:23,770
I have a lot more. Right down to two inches, a few inches more to rest in the air.

907
01:16:25,070 --> 01:16:29,910
Any other, is there any other feedback for the budget if

908
01:16:34,580 --> 01:16:39,360
hearing none and then I would suggest we move on to the last item on our agenda.

909
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:41,240
I'll make a motion read your.

910
01:16:41,620 --> 01:16:45,980
I'll second that motion and a second all those in favor roll call Kirsten.

911
01:16:46,420 --> 01:16:49,540
I want someone someone picked up.

912
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:54,560
Did you want to talk about that tonight?

913
01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:59,320
We were that we're thinking about that on the 22nd.

914
01:16:59,320 --> 01:16:59,940
Oh, he's here now.

915
01:17:00,940 --> 01:17:01,260
What?

916
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:03,220
I was thinking about for the regular meeting,

917
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:05,340
but you're going to do it with all the motion,

918
01:17:05,460 --> 01:17:07,320
so we can hear the conversation.

919
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:08,820
Do you want to have it at the regular meeting

920
01:17:08,820 --> 01:17:10,280
or at the work council?

921
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:10,800
Oh.

922
01:17:11,540 --> 01:17:12,640
That was probably a motion.

923
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:13,600
OK.

924
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:14,620
You OK?

925
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:15,840
I'm fine with that, yes, please.

926
01:17:15,940 --> 01:17:16,480
We'll hear from you.

927
01:17:17,820 --> 01:17:19,120
Sorry for the confusion, Greg.

928
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:20,860
Is it make still?

929
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:21,360
Yep.

930
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:22,020
Make it still.

931
01:17:22,480 --> 01:17:23,200
And they're fast.

932
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:23,760
Yep.

933
01:17:24,340 --> 01:17:25,280
Should have picked on a fit to rest.

934
01:17:25,820 --> 01:17:27,580
But first, you guys missed the obvious

935
01:17:27,580 --> 01:17:31,220
for getting rid of the tourism committee. You know what it takes to get tourists here, right?

936
01:17:31,660 --> 01:17:35,700
World's largest dollar horse? They'll come. Okay, that being said.

937
01:17:37,020 --> 01:17:40,780
Richard Frest, next year's, well, yeah, it's next year, the 27th.

938
01:17:42,100 --> 01:17:51,540
I'm anticipating around $6,700 for what we need. I'll break that down a bit. Last year's

939
01:17:52,960 --> 01:18:00,020
for the rink and associated public works for plowing snow moving things around all the things they do.

940
01:18:01,500 --> 01:18:08,760
For this, that was a 47-71. No overtime was paid. It was all done during regular business hours.

941
01:18:09,500 --> 01:18:16,360
This year, they will not have to plow for the snow sculpture or winter being still save some money probably not a lot.

942
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:22,420
But also hopefully we'll come up with a new contest to take the place of at least one

943
01:18:22,420 --> 01:18:22,720
of them.

944
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:25,440
So there may be a little bit put back into there.

945
01:18:26,180 --> 01:18:29,160
And also they'll have to be pulling for a new place.

946
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:33,760
So I guess for the fireworks, I guess that's a mic decision of where the fireworks are going

947
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:42,140
to be since we can't do it down there anymore, but that's kind of that section that's going

948
01:18:42,140 --> 01:18:48,980
be, you know, only said that's the cost already being paid out or part of the budget for public works and that's money

949
01:18:48,980 --> 01:18:58,180
that's going to be regardless what function we have at the rank. Also the cost over and above the public works expenses is

950
01:18:58,180 --> 01:19:05,220
the Zamboni during the tournament. Last year they spent 1936 dollars total for labor and the Zamboni during the

951
01:19:05,220 --> 01:19:10,480
return amendment. We kind of talked about it, parks committee a little bit about hiring

952
01:19:10,480 --> 01:19:16,360
somebody individually to do the Zamboni and I'm guessing we probably didn't offer them

953
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:25,240
enough money. I'm saying if we offer them 30 bucks an hour, we'd say $530, $535, because

954
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:28,500
that way they could flex around they wouldn't be on overtime. They'd be on your straight

955
01:19:28,500 --> 01:19:31,040
time for most of it, it'd be some over time.

956
01:19:32,140 --> 01:19:34,280
So that would bring it down to $970.

957
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:40,920
And since the Minnesota kicks in $1,000 to the fireworks, it's kind of a wash from one

958
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:41,640
area to the next.

959
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:50,360
Also, myisters is going to provide security to prevent fights in the warming house and

960
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:51,100
outside there.

961
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:57,300
So that's kind of my synopsis for that part anyway.

962
01:19:57,300 --> 01:19:58,940
way. Any questions so far?

963
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:02,940
And we have a new spot for fireworks?

964
01:20:07,860 --> 01:20:09,120
It's been so long.

965
01:20:11,100 --> 01:20:12,380
There'll be snow. Okay.

966
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:19,220
Office time. As we all know, we have a new office staff person.

967
01:20:19,380 --> 01:20:21,660
She will be taken over for interfest duties.

968
01:20:23,580 --> 01:20:27,020
So a couple of things there. The software that B has used in

969
01:20:27,020 --> 01:20:30,660
a past is no longer available so that it change.

970
01:20:30,660 --> 01:20:36,880
change. B is not used, it cares not used it. Veronica has used a sum and hopefully she

971
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:43,120
can help you know with that. So office hours are going to increase because of the learning

972
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:50,740
curve. And to help that, I'm having them do all of our banners, all of our advertising

973
01:20:50,740 --> 01:20:55,460
is all going to be like in portrait mode. In the past we've had some things like landscape,

974
01:20:55,460 --> 01:21:00,500
like for the posters you put around town. That way it'll be less changing your

975
01:21:00,500 --> 01:21:05,660
own form. They could pretty much just, well, it'll be overly simplified. They'd be

976
01:21:05,660 --> 01:21:10,100
doing just making bigger versions of them, but it's not that easy. But at least

977
01:21:10,100 --> 01:21:14,080
this way, they're not having to change formats and re-putting everything in there.

978
01:21:16,300 --> 01:21:21,960
Also, I know some of our banners were not in the best shape last year.

979
01:21:24,660 --> 01:21:25,060
The ones

980
01:21:25,060 --> 01:21:26,100
We do end up using them.

981
01:21:26,420 --> 01:21:28,660
Charles, have you looked at the ones that she's got for love it?

982
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:31,700
Do you think that would work better in the winter?

983
01:21:31,860 --> 01:21:32,860
I mean, it's all, it's like a screen.

984
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:35,440
I would think it'd be less wind resistance.

985
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:45,740
Possibly, I'm not an expert in banner and I know the worst part is it's the cold weather and it's a vinyl material.

986
01:21:46,100 --> 01:21:55,160
If it's not cold weather rated, it can crack in the cold and typically where these banners are placed, they're in windy location.

987
01:21:58,380 --> 01:22:01,540
I guess that I can't say what is going to be better.

988
01:22:03,940 --> 01:22:09,500
Actually, I've talked to Sue and possibly we'll have one of the concerts during Vintagrest.

989
01:22:09,700 --> 01:22:10,440
I'm thinking indoors.

990
01:22:11,180 --> 01:22:12,100
I don't know how many people would.

991
01:22:12,660 --> 01:22:18,500
Musicians we want to be playing outdoors, but in that case, we could get her put one of

992
01:22:18,500 --> 01:22:19,040
her signs up.

993
01:22:19,140 --> 01:22:20,820
Maybe in the future we'll see how well it holds up.

994
01:22:21,380 --> 01:22:25,340
maybe maybe I heard he was one of his guinea pig if she's willing to do that.

995
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:34,980
And kind of lastly, talking to our deputy and he suggested that we hire an off-duty

996
01:22:34,980 --> 01:22:39,440
officer during winter press like we do for taco days that way somebody would be there

997
01:22:39,970 --> 01:22:45,240
for coverage all the time and he won't be called away for excuse me, called away for calls

998
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:48,200
like Jake's been doing.

999
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:50,700
I mean, you said, Mice just was going to do security?

1000
01:22:51,340 --> 01:22:56,380
Yeah, he's going to hire somebody to watch over the tent to try to prevent any fighting for breaking out, okay?

1001
01:22:57,980 --> 01:23:02,960
There's a discussion early about Mice just making money and not contributing back to the city.

1002
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:09,760
So, we talked about it and thought the best use of money contribution or

1003
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:13,620
thing would be spent on preventing fights for the hockey tournament.

1004
01:23:14,540 --> 01:23:16,780
Okay, so you're talking about a second officer as well?

1005
01:23:19,140 --> 01:23:23,800
At least this, I don't know if we need a second one, but if we just had an off-duty, the off-duty would be at all time.

1006
01:23:24,180 --> 01:23:26,740
I don't think myister's as plushed officers as security.

1007
01:23:27,480 --> 01:23:35,160
Myister's isn't going to hire the off-duty, he's going to hire just a balancer basically to keep peace in the tent, okay, I didn't want to use that.

1008
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:37,280
These are two separate things, yeah.

1009
01:23:39,020 --> 01:23:46,800
So, anyhow, something to kick over on, I don't know how much an off-duty officer is, but I don't know, maybe you know Jim.

1010
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:53,200
but they run about $650 for the time that they're here for taco days.

1011
01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:55,740
So if they're not here for the same amount of time, it will be less.

1012
01:23:56,220 --> 01:24:01,280
Okay. And maybe we could fill in our regular one for part of the time or whatever,

1013
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:08,380
but he just threw it out there as a suggestion, you know, just to keep police presence here.

1014
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:09,840
There'd be a cop car here all the time.

1015
01:24:09,900 --> 01:24:14,940
There'd be somebody here in uniform all the time that way, whereas last year everyone's

1016
01:24:14,940 --> 01:24:16,460
Well, he'd have to go to school, not out of here,

1017
01:24:16,460 --> 01:24:19,020
which with traffic and whatever is,

1018
01:24:19,500 --> 01:24:20,820
maybe we didn't really help his timing.

1019
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:22,320
I'm better aware he needed to go.

1020
01:24:23,940 --> 01:24:25,300
So, any questions?

1021
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:29,540
Yeah, you're not kind of the snow sculpture pile.

1022
01:24:29,780 --> 01:24:30,700
What are you gonna have for kids events,

1023
01:24:31,020 --> 01:24:31,720
like family events?

1024
01:24:32,420 --> 01:24:34,080
We are trying to come up with something.

1025
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,340
Nobody signed up for the winter means last year

1026
01:24:38,860 --> 01:24:41,800
and because we had such a great snow sculpture last year,

1027
01:24:41,980 --> 01:24:43,920
we can't, no point in even trying to beat that.

1028
01:24:46,370 --> 01:24:55,790
Stone did it find out. Yeah, Jim was the only one that signed up for us. No, I don't know. Stone did it. That's all stone. He got to. Yeah, it's really cold day, too.

1029
01:24:57,510 --> 01:25:05,690
And it's been, I mean, we, you know, not as cold, but we've always, you know, just for some reason, the last two years was what, the year before or last year, we had no snow was at the

1030
01:25:05,690 --> 01:25:12,810
thing or then last year so cold so I don't know if it just lost their momentum or you can't win yeah the

1031
01:25:12,810 --> 01:25:18,070
kids grew old I don't know what happened but I have a few ideas for you after things maybe a medallion

1032
01:25:18,070 --> 01:25:23,570
hunt would be a medallion hunt would be really good we have that ready well with the locals I mean I

1033
01:25:23,570 --> 01:25:32,090
mean something to attract the kids yeah well the Lions do a medallion hunt basically because they

1034
01:25:32,090 --> 01:25:37,750
We're going to do a medallion hunt I think for talk with days and for some reason medallions all came back with Winterfest on them

1035
01:25:38,950 --> 01:25:41,010
So they've been doing a medallion hunt

1036
01:25:41,010 --> 01:25:45,910
They give give high hints on the Alliance Facebook page throughout Saturday

1037
01:25:47,390 --> 01:25:49,090
so and if they have a

1038
01:25:49,890 --> 01:25:53,530
Lions book I think I think that the Lions book or something and then you get extra money

1039
01:25:53,530 --> 01:25:55,750
$1.00 or Lions coupon book. Yeah

1040
01:25:55,750 --> 01:25:58,750
Yeah, then they get doubles it to whatever. Yeah

1041
01:26:00,810 --> 01:26:20,370
So, yeah, we, if anybody has any ideas for a, you know, youthful or family thing, typically what we've done and we still have money left over last year from Bolton and Mink for the tournaments because we spend it all so hopefully we typically have done or hope to have done this have like a kids only and then the kids an adult category for a second and third.

1042
01:26:21,610 --> 01:26:32,250
so. So question you said you had money looked over from last year because you didn't spend it all. Yes. So is this a is this budget outside of the city budget. Yes.

1043
01:26:32,490 --> 01:26:44,770
This is money that came from Bolton and make that I don't know. Be put in a drawer where it is, but it's just left over that we just be talking to Bolton and make they were fine with us just keeping it for next year.

1044
01:26:44,770 --> 01:26:49,610
So who is that check made out to? Is it made out to Vinterfest? Is it made up to the city?

1045
01:26:50,030 --> 01:26:51,910
I don't know. I don't get involved in that part.

1046
01:26:52,310 --> 01:26:57,690
I'm guessing it was made out to the city as sitting in the events line item in the Park and Right Committee.

1047
01:26:58,070 --> 01:27:00,470
A budget when we're the park budget would be my guess.

1048
01:27:00,850 --> 01:27:02,530
So when's the fiscal year end?

1049
01:27:03,110 --> 01:27:04,510
It's in December.

1050
01:27:05,230 --> 01:27:12,590
So on December 31st, the fiscal year ends and the budget is complete for the year.

1051
01:27:12,590 --> 01:27:17,030
So then the next year, you start out with a new budget, right, January 1st?

1052
01:27:17,030 --> 01:27:17,350
Correct.

1053
01:27:17,410 --> 01:27:19,970
The park and wreck fund that has a fund balance in it.

1054
01:27:20,810 --> 01:27:21,690
So the...

1055
01:27:21,690 --> 01:27:22,690
So they don't start at zero.

1056
01:27:23,610 --> 01:27:26,090
Everything doesn't go to zero at the end of the year.

1057
01:27:26,390 --> 01:27:28,150
So it starts at whatever we approve...

1058
01:27:28,150 --> 01:27:34,030
Whatever the previous fund balance was, whatever the revenue was, minus their expenses.

1059
01:27:34,230 --> 01:27:35,110
So who approves the budget?

1060
01:27:35,450 --> 01:27:35,690
We do.

1061
01:27:36,230 --> 01:27:37,990
Okay, so we will see those numbers.

1062
01:27:38,370 --> 01:27:40,370
I don't think that was part of the budget.

1063
01:27:40,570 --> 01:27:41,690
The park and wrecked budget.

1064
01:27:41,690 --> 01:27:47,130
No, no. I mean, I'm talking just as specific specifically the Bolton and Mink donation. I don't think that

1065
01:27:47,130 --> 01:27:53,050
Well, that money is in the park and wreck budget under it. It went stuck into there. Okay, it would have been spent

1066
01:27:53,050 --> 01:27:59,110
But we didn't have the event so there were no prizes to hand out but Bolton and Mink said don't give us our money back

1067
01:27:59,110 --> 01:28:05,930
Just keep it the Christians correct though if that's put back into the general fund a general fund that

1068
01:28:06,710 --> 01:28:08,550
Budget ends at the end of the year

1069
01:28:10,990 --> 01:28:13,290
It's not like the EDA or the

1070
01:28:13,290 --> 01:28:15,370
tourism. Okay. Anything

1071
01:28:15,370 --> 01:28:19,510
anything. It is within the general fund in the park and you know there's an

1072
01:28:19,510 --> 01:28:24,290
event's line item. When we put our operating budget together under 101

1073
01:28:25,090 --> 01:28:28,950
department parks, there's an event's line item that if we receive a donation

1074
01:28:29,790 --> 01:28:34,750
for an event, any expense that's paid out of that event for parks comes out of that line item.

1075
01:28:34,750 --> 01:28:38,910
but the money just gets deposited into the general 101 account.

1076
01:28:39,870 --> 01:28:47,510
No, the anything public works, parks, communities that are do not have their own separate fund outside of the general fund.

1077
01:28:48,030 --> 01:28:49,670
I was confusing it with the park fund.

1078
01:28:50,330 --> 01:28:55,630
One other thing that's maybe more just a Kyle thing, but with the money,

1079
01:28:55,850 --> 01:29:01,250
typically for the fireworks, we get a $2,000 donation from the Lions and a thousand from the Minnesota.

1080
01:29:01,250 --> 01:29:18,170
So, and if I were to say that that's really not enough to do much of anything anymore, so we need more money, and I've talked to Kyle before about how to get, no, if we, if I talked to some local businesses and say, yeah, I don't know, this seems.

1081
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:26,820
Security for specific events. Oh, it can. So I just have him write it out and send it here and then we could pay the fireworks guy. No. Okay. Good. Any other questions? Yeah, I mean we so generally, yeah, we would want any donation made out with the specific line item why it's being donated and what it's being donated for. Okay. That way we are obligated to spend it in the manner in which it was for that which it was donated. Okay. That helps.

1082
01:30:26,820 --> 01:30:34,520
All right. Any other questions? Because I talked to OMC, I got them the Donate 500. So I'm

1083
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:38,680
hoping to get another, you know, at least a thousand extra to try to bring it up to

1084
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:40,080
least where if I were 10, I used to be.

1085
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:50,280
So when will ventifest be? January 29th and 30th. I think that's the last weekend, I believe.

1086
01:30:50,280 --> 01:31:00,560
And I'm requesting everybody give me their information by December 2nd because of the extra learning curve for doing stuff.

1087
01:31:01,300 --> 01:31:11,680
I think the last conversation I recall was that there were some issues that needed to be to be worked out with public works and that type of stuff.

1088
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:13,840
Are we beyond all that now? Is this set?

1089
01:31:16,210 --> 01:31:16,530
Charlie?

1090
01:31:16,530 --> 01:31:27,020
I don't remember any issues with public works I've comments taken by comments taken by residents I think a lot of

1091
01:31:27,020 --> 01:31:33,420
express around and the Zamboni and all of the over time and that type of stuff everybody is on the same

1092
01:31:33,420 --> 01:31:39,300
page about all that stuff now. I was just asked to prepare how much it costs to put on this event.

1093
01:31:39,300 --> 01:31:43,360
Generally, the city expense related to

1094
01:31:43,360 --> 01:31:46,440
ventrothest is between $8,000 and $10,000

1095
01:31:46,440 --> 01:31:48,420
between public works and the office staff.

1096
01:31:49,020 --> 01:31:52,720
That number had not been calculated at any time in the past.

1097
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:57,280
And the question was, is that a dollar amount that the city is

1098
01:31:57,280 --> 01:32:00,720
okay with allocating towards that event?

1099
01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:02,460
And we answered that question?

1100
01:32:02,820 --> 01:32:05,220
Well, I guess my question is that

1101
01:32:09,410 --> 01:32:11,430
significantly less.

1102
01:32:11,430 --> 01:32:17,010
That's because the lightens pay for the talk what he's and the bulk of the the bulk of our time is in ring maintenance

1103
01:32:17,890 --> 01:32:19,070
which you know

1104
01:32:19,630 --> 01:32:29,630
To some level we would be doing anyway, but we tend to do more because of the hockey tournament requires better ice than just

1105
01:32:30,150 --> 01:32:31,110
Ascading ring does

1106
01:32:31,810 --> 01:32:33,370
so there is some

1107
01:32:33,370 --> 01:32:39,990
some legitimacy to the comment that will public works would be doing some of this anyway.

1108
01:32:40,250 --> 01:32:47,270
Yes, they would be maintaining the rank, but they're adding more ice, they're spending more time on it because they need better quality ice for the rank.

1109
01:32:48,610 --> 01:33:02,330
Staff time is minimal, it's probably 10 to 15% of that total dollar amount and most of that as Greg alluded to is time spent putting together the advertising.

1110
01:33:02,330 --> 01:33:09,010
And then even factored in that is the cost of purchasing the banners and things like that from from the printer

1111
01:33:11,050 --> 01:33:15,290
So taco days is significantly less because we're not preparing the ring for anything

1112
01:33:15,830 --> 01:33:21,990
I also don't think we factor in any time that the fire department puts into their event. I don't know if you guys are

1113
01:33:22,970 --> 01:33:25,150
Paid for your participation in taco days

1114
01:33:39,730 --> 01:33:42,390
So we do utilize the tank

1115
01:33:42,390 --> 01:33:44,810
for at times to come down and

1116
01:33:44,810 --> 01:33:46,090
now flood the ranks.

1117
01:33:46,850 --> 01:33:48,670
And to clarify the numbers I

1118
01:33:48,670 --> 01:33:50,610
provided the Parks committee in

1119
01:33:50,610 --> 01:33:52,390
that meeting. I think it was back

1120
01:33:52,390 --> 01:33:55,910
in April. The numbers I gave

1121
01:33:55,910 --> 01:33:57,910
them was above and beyond what we

1122
01:33:57,910 --> 01:33:59,330
normally would be doing.

1123
01:33:59,330 --> 01:34:04,570
There was it didn't include like if we were it the numbers subtracted

1124
01:34:04,570 --> 01:34:15,410
What we normally would be doing for a specific week didn't and the total number I provided was $11,200 for the event

1125
01:34:16,090 --> 01:34:23,570
Yeah, and I was including office time to yeah no above and if total cost for the event was

1126
01:34:24,430 --> 01:34:27,290
11,200 dollars there was

1127
01:34:27,290 --> 01:34:55,970
Because if I took our normal work day and subtract, I added it all up and then I subtracted what we normally would be doing for the week from the original total number, which whatever that was above $11,000, but after subtracting out a normal work day week for the person that, or however many hours we put in extra for preparation and then clean up after ended up being $11,000.

1128
01:34:55,970 --> 01:34:59,350
but at 11,000 is counting 2,000 for office work.

1129
01:34:59,730 --> 01:35:02,930
Correct, so 9,000 now public works time.

1130
01:35:03,490 --> 01:35:07,630
And the park and rec committee didn't seem concerned

1131
01:35:07,630 --> 01:35:08,990
about that extra expense.

1132
01:35:09,930 --> 01:35:12,190
Council obviously has final say on that.

1133
01:35:13,430 --> 01:35:15,710
There's never really been a financial accounting

1134
01:35:15,710 --> 01:35:17,030
of interfests in the past.

1135
01:35:17,710 --> 01:35:20,630
And so we felt it was important that we put together

1136
01:35:20,630 --> 01:35:23,230
a financial recap and be able to present that

1137
01:35:23,230 --> 01:35:23,830
through the council.

1138
01:35:23,830 --> 01:35:25,390
So this is what that event costs us.

1139
01:35:25,390 --> 01:35:31,370
I think we'll, knowing that we did that in 26, we'll certainly work to do the same in 27, make a similar presentation.

1140
01:35:32,010 --> 01:35:39,970
We'll give us, start giving us a better understanding of where $2 amount actually is in case one year ends up being in anomaly.

1141
01:35:40,590 --> 01:35:43,730
He asked a question about hindsight going back to 25.

1142
01:35:44,590 --> 01:35:48,690
You guys had a fabulous job with the ice, and then there was no ice.

1143
01:35:49,030 --> 01:35:50,570
Right. Well, there was no tournament.

1144
01:35:51,330 --> 01:35:52,430
Well, there was no ice.

1145
01:35:53,590 --> 01:35:54,930
Yeah, it's got the worm here.

1146
01:35:55,050 --> 01:35:57,490
Yeah, it's called sun.

1147
01:35:57,490 --> 01:36:05,930
How far in advance can you, and I know you're not a weatherman, but are you giving,

1148
01:36:06,330 --> 01:36:10,390
like, no notice and a couple of day notice when it gets warm, or are you, or are you,

1149
01:36:10,390 --> 01:36:14,510
it's, when we, when it has pretty much yet, where it was kind of waiting to see.

1150
01:36:14,650 --> 01:36:20,110
Looking at it as the city is going to be funny, and you look at the wet forecast and it's,

1151
01:36:20,110 --> 01:36:26,370
five degrees this week, but next week we'll be on a big warm up to 35 and in the meantime

1152
01:36:26,370 --> 01:36:32,930
we're spreading money to the next week it's going well you have more faith in the

1153
01:36:32,930 --> 01:36:36,690
weather people than I do because of the week out I don't believe what they're saying

1154
01:36:36,690 --> 01:36:42,150
because it's going to change honestly I mean honestly that's by honest opinion and yeah

1155
01:36:42,150 --> 01:36:48,130
it might get warmer but then again it'll re-freeze at night you know is it going to be sunny

1156
01:36:48,130 --> 01:36:50,210
what happens every time, you know, now it's cloudy.

1157
01:36:50,470 --> 01:36:52,930
Now it's not going to be 30 degrees anymore.

1158
01:36:54,330 --> 01:36:57,490
So, you know, it was just kind of a last minute thing,

1159
01:36:57,850 --> 01:37:00,390
about like two days ahead of time, I think we called it

1160
01:37:00,390 --> 01:37:03,330
that this is going to be slush, or two, three days.

1161
01:37:03,410 --> 01:37:05,630
It wasn't that, you know, there's a point of no return

1162
01:37:05,630 --> 01:37:06,350
at some point.

1163
01:37:06,630 --> 01:37:10,810
It was, it was like hours, like maybe the evening

1164
01:37:10,810 --> 01:37:12,290
before they canceled, yeah.

1165
01:37:12,810 --> 01:37:15,170
It was, so we were working all the way up

1166
01:37:15,170 --> 01:37:16,850
to the final hour preparing.

1167
01:37:35,490 --> 01:37:40,310
Yeah, I mean, if it's obvious, we had like obvious week of 40s and 50s, we haven't

1168
01:37:40,310 --> 01:37:44,990
snore already, and he doesn't start till about the so many inches of frost, underground

1169
01:37:44,990 --> 01:37:47,090
or frost in the ground, whatever below ground.

1170
01:37:47,090 --> 01:37:53,030
So, and the hockey tournament brings in more people from outside the area than anything.

1171
01:37:53,490 --> 01:37:55,250
That's the one that fills up the restaurants.

1172
01:37:57,670 --> 01:38:03,290
Sue says her Dickens Pickens has more traffic that day.

1173
01:38:04,170 --> 01:38:06,350
It brings people in.

1174
01:38:06,830 --> 01:38:08,610
The other events are mostly local people.

1175
01:38:09,770 --> 01:38:11,530
They're not going to eat here most likely.

1176
01:38:11,870 --> 01:38:12,670
They're going to go home and eat.

1177
01:38:12,810 --> 01:38:14,890
They're not going to fight the crowds or whatever.

1178
01:38:16,230 --> 01:38:22,150
So it's a big boom in the city, you know, how do you put a dollar amount on that, you know, talking

1179
01:38:22,150 --> 01:38:27,910
with Scott, he said they would, you know, Ozark, they were relatively new owners, I don't remember

1180
01:38:27,910 --> 01:38:31,910
when they started, but they said this is a busy city they've ever had. You know, I was standing

1181
01:38:31,910 --> 01:38:35,590
in the room only the first time they've ever had that and especially being a new business owner,

1182
01:38:35,590 --> 01:38:40,390
they really needed it. And if anybody's familiar with the restaurant industry, January is a very

1183
01:38:40,390 --> 01:38:45,430
dead time. You know, after the big Christmas boom, it's nothing till, like, same

1184
01:38:45,430 --> 01:38:50,110
Patrick's Day. So it really helps our local businesses. And, you know,

1185
01:38:50,210 --> 01:38:53,210
Ozark's gone through a lot of different people, you know, in the past

1186
01:38:53,210 --> 01:38:58,230
over many years since it's been invented. So, you know, it's great for the

1187
01:38:58,230 --> 01:39:02,310
community. You know, some of the people, like Scott said, some of the people came

1188
01:39:02,310 --> 01:39:05,710
in there is like, yeah, when we came here for rent a fresh, it'll play in hockey

1189
01:39:05,710 --> 01:39:09,110
and so well, this is, you know, let's see what it's like in the summer. Let's go

1190
01:39:09,110 --> 01:39:13,210
visit the other places and stuff. We have, and we have a couple people here that their

1191
01:39:13,210 --> 01:39:18,170
kids play in the tournament. So it's kind of fun for them to see their adult, no, older

1192
01:39:18,170 --> 01:39:22,150
adult kids playing in it and, you know, it's a great thing.

1193
01:39:22,890 --> 01:39:29,450
If I remember the numbers, the city's contribution is about a third of the total cost for Ventrefest.

1194
01:39:29,910 --> 01:39:36,170
Two-thirds of it is raised by private donations in order to bring in the raptors or the

1195
01:39:36,170 --> 01:39:42,510
just like dogs or other groups, so it's something that's born by the whole city.

1196
01:39:46,850 --> 01:39:51,970
Yeah, we brought, you know, Gamma Gardens joined in, SHA is joined in, you know, the church

1197
01:39:51,970 --> 01:39:57,750
has been apart for many years, but it'll be interesting to see when they get the water

1198
01:39:57,750 --> 01:40:02,170
bar and up and running, you know, now they can separate things but, you know, in and out

1199
01:40:02,170 --> 01:40:02,670
and all around.

1200
01:40:03,730 --> 01:40:03,850
Okay.

1201
01:40:04,610 --> 01:40:05,450
Any more questions?

1202
01:40:06,410 --> 01:40:12,430
Yeah, I just want to finish with dinner fest as a whole wasn't the issues I was

1203
01:40:12,430 --> 01:40:19,370
came about originally so there was targeted set of issues yeah and I think

1204
01:40:19,370 --> 01:40:23,890
the largely the response I'm hearing is they're going to be fine to find more

1205
01:40:23,890 --> 01:40:28,390
confinely games and they're going to be bringing in a greater security

1206
01:40:28,390 --> 01:40:33,130
your presence to help right make sure we don't run into more issues.

1207
01:40:33,430 --> 01:40:38,050
Yeah, and the issues they had I mean it's never been any professional sporting event.

1208
01:40:38,050 --> 01:40:43,790
You just still see people swearing, drinking, doing whatever you get your complaints were about fights.

1209
01:40:44,510 --> 01:40:50,790
I've been to a lot of the girls junior and high school basketball tournaments and forest lake.

1210
01:40:52,350 --> 01:40:57,590
There's high school kids just sitting there swearing back and forth adults are people on the court are.

1211
01:40:57,590 --> 01:41:03,170
It's like the expectations have changed, you know, people just aren't the way they make it right.

1212
01:41:03,590 --> 01:41:05,330
It doesn't but what are you going to do?

1213
01:41:05,350 --> 01:41:06,750
Yeah, it's their first amendment.

1214
01:41:07,310 --> 01:41:07,550
Huh?

1215
01:41:07,910 --> 01:41:09,070
I can think of a few things.

1216
01:41:09,230 --> 01:41:09,450
Yup.

1217
01:41:10,170 --> 01:41:11,530
Well, this is great.

1218
01:41:11,770 --> 01:41:11,990
It's young.

1219
01:41:12,510 --> 01:41:14,990
See, people will not record it and eject it.

1220
01:41:16,590 --> 01:41:17,030
Whatever.

1221
01:41:17,790 --> 01:41:18,810
It's the way it is.

1222
01:41:19,370 --> 01:41:19,850
All right.

1223
01:41:20,470 --> 01:41:21,730
Greg, one last question.

1224
01:41:22,010 --> 01:41:22,790
You don't have answers.

1225
01:41:22,810 --> 01:41:25,770
They can be addressed in a park's meeting just to think about it.

1226
01:41:25,770 --> 01:41:49,470
Have you thought about generating any type of rules for outside vendors doing anything for the event as far as what just a general guidelines of rules like code of conduct code yeah code of conduct like maybe you can't bring in outside materials to the event like things like that.

1227
01:41:49,470 --> 01:41:59,170
I think it's just, it's kind of free range, just come into whatever you want, so I'm just putting it out there just to think about it.

1228
01:42:00,910 --> 01:42:13,310
I know what the conscious is we had, we've got big posters out there that have like ten things on there, no bikes, no walking, no swearing, no fights, that kind of thing, no

1229
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:18,600
vibrations.

1230
01:42:21,940 --> 01:42:24,400
All right, any other questions?

1231
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:26,840
I make a motion to adjourn.

1232
01:42:26,940 --> 01:42:27,940
I'll second that.

1233
01:42:28,560 --> 01:42:28,860
All right.

1234
01:42:29,100 --> 01:42:29,940
Is Mike still on?

1235
01:42:31,120 --> 01:42:31,400
Yep.

1236
01:42:31,900 --> 01:42:32,100
OK.

1237
01:42:33,080 --> 01:42:34,380
So roll call.

1238
01:42:34,500 --> 01:42:34,820
Kirsten.

1239
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:36,080
Jim.

1240
01:42:36,420 --> 01:42:36,560
Aye.

1241
01:42:36,940 --> 01:42:37,240
Mike.

1242
01:42:37,860 --> 01:42:38,280
Aye.

1243
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:39,260
And Steve.

1244
01:42:39,480 --> 01:42:39,600
Aye.

1245
01:42:40,040 --> 01:42:40,820
We are adjourned.

1246
01:42:41,700 --> 01:42:42,720
Have a good night, everybody.

1247
01:42:43,260 --> 01:42:43,600
Good night.