e
good evening good evening good evening
um thank you all for being here this
evening it is September 4th 2024 and
this is the city council work session um
we're going to begin the session by um
the a call to order which I just did
Pledge of Allegiance if you all stand
with me
please I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America and to
the Republic for which it stands one
nation under God indivisible with
liberty and justice for
all okay
okay before we begin um because this is
a council meeting and there is priority
business that does need to be taken care
of I am requesting of the council that
we're able to move under new business
business items two and three the grant
acceptance and the Professional Services
agreement to the top before we do um
introduction of our special guest and
presentation are there any
objections all right so Mr
Pollock thank you mayor I'll be brief so
the first item is we we have the we got
the opportunity to add
$150,000 to the Cascade Trail phase 2A
uh project this is a project being
designed inhouse by David Lee who's
retiring tomorrow and so this will give
us the capability to finish this project
and potentially construct it next year
um it's
$129,000 of grant funding with2 ,000 of
match okay are there any questions for
bail is there a motion Madame mayor I'll
make a motion to approve thank you do I
have a second I'll second that thank you
so I have a motion by councilman lavaka
second by councilman Burns to accept the
grant um for the sro2 Cascade Trail West
extension Phase 2 a all those in favor
signify by saying I I oppose same sign
motion carries thank you moving on to
the second item uh Mr bulock I believe
this has to do with the professional
service agreement amendment number two
yes and so
currently and I have to make a
correction on this to the actual uh uh
Amendment to the contract I said kjl
instead of klj so I'll make that change
with your permission but uh currently uh
kjl is our uh utility rate uh consultant
and we want to start uh an amendment to
uh start sorry begin our utility rate
study for the sewer rates and we have an
obligation to get a draft by October and
so by uh establishing this amendment
today uh we have an opportunity to be
able to do that without a delay okay any
questions for
Bill do I have a motion Madam mayor I do
so Bill I was just wondering so we're
getting a consultant to to discuss the
sewer rate um increase for which years
for basically 2025 okay and we just did
rate increase didn't we I believe so but
from what I understand is we do a rate
study uh uh every year and so this is
our consultant that does that for us so
I'm moving that forward okay so is that
a is that a policy or is it just
something we do or um
because we're paying 18 just to do a
rate study and then to raise a rate and
I don't I'm just wondering is we ever
had it were um the rate study said don't
raise the rate lower
it so I really can't answer that
question because I just don't have the
history here that'd be something for
Mark fryberger who's retired um but this
is an expectation that I was told we
have and so this is what we're doing and
this same consultant is doing one for
storm water but as I said consultant
with our stormm water comprehensive Plan
update that's currently underway so
maybe Charlie do you know if this is a
mandatory thing that we that we do every
year we do do it every year we do it but
are we are we required to adopting rates
and fees is required by Council each
year uh doing a rate study is not
necessarily required by Council each
year but it's prudent fiscal management
of the utility the Wastewater utility to
make sure that we have funds we need to
do capital projects and maintain our
operations so I recommend we do it so
that would be to verify that we're
covering the costs of them to keep them
solvent not necessarily that we're just
raising rates to stay in line with other
cities we're doing what it's necessary
to to pay the bills that's correct we
also have our Wastewater Plant expansion
coming up in the next few years and I
think it's critically important at this
point in particular to make sure that we
have put away the funding for that that
we
need thank you is there a
motion if if I may make one more
question Madam May if else absolutely so
on that rate study um if we do it every
year is there a is there a trend that we
see that increase
in like if it goes up like 2.2 one year
2.4 one year 2.3 the year we see it's
roughly at this does it make fiscal
sense to spend the 18,000 if we know
it's going to be within that trend line
is it going to be dramatically different
I
guess that I can't so I can say in uh
past jurisdictions I've been it's
typical to even do a rate study once
every three years some do it every year
it kind of depends on the jurisdiction
and what they their practices are um if
you're doing something less often than
once a year then typically what you're
doing is you're you know adding a a CPI
factor or you've you have a planned rate
increase for every year and so that is a
way to um do a rate study less
periodically but then typically if
you're doing a rate study every three
years it's more expensive than if you do
it every year because you know they uh
when you do a rate study every year my
priority is you you carry over the data
from the last time you did it into um
the current year you're doing it and and
there's a certain amount of analysis
that doesn't need to be redone as if
you're doing it less frequently so uh
from what I understand that's what this
jurisdiction typically does and so
that's what we're proposing to do now
with that said that's a practice we
could look at changing in the future
certainly certainly we
can so are you saying it's going to cost
us the same amount whether we do it
every three years or every year we're
going to end up no I'm saying if you do
once every three years or once every
five whatever your frequency is that's
going to typically be more than if you
do it every year because you now have a
different level of analysis to do
because you have not maintained that
analysis year after year so 18K per year
plus inflation basically no matter what
we do it's not atypical how's that but
it wouldn't cost 60,000 for a three-year
study or or 56,000 for a threeyear
study hard to really tell you what that
is it all depends on who's doing
it um how how the utilities run you know
what types of things they need to
investigate if you have large Capital
Improvements coming up in the
next um fiscal term or not and and in
this case we do or we're likely to so
could we look at that and then you could
come back and we can table this until we
have those numbers well I tbling it now
means we probably would not have one
done in time for the time period that
council is or at least what I've been
told my expectation is we certainly
could and then if that's okay if we
bring back the results in November or
December but then we won't have the
ability to for instance incorporate that
into our budget this year either
councilman ly yeah I just wanted to know
is this the same company that's been
doing this for years for CED willly any
I mean it's been a long time so they
know the ins and outs that's
correct that's my understanding anyway
thank
you Mayor Johnson yes go ahead um i' I'd
personally like to see a data Trend o
over like the past 10 years adding
inflation um what's that what's that
done to kind of get a grasp of what we
would be paying uh I agree with Nick
that if it's like 2 and a half% every
year and that's what we know it is and
that's been well
established um backing the inflation out
of it um i' I'd like to see those
numbers and then and then either pull
the trigger on it or not if
that's if that's something we can get
rather quickly that'd be
helpful sure I can try
it I'm sorry one one other thing to note
is we do have uh upcoming in in the next
couple years uh upgrades to the
wastewater treatment plan and that is
actually the bigger piece of the rate
study as Bill mentioned um to make sure
that we are saving appropriately for
that and best using um our fiscal
resources to make that as low cost as
possible because debt uh costs the city
money so we're trying to reduce our debt
and and be really smart about that um
and this is what the consultant helps us
do not just the rate next year but how
will that rate help us in the really
near future when we're going to have to
start start working on that project um
and funding for that project so my
recommendation is um along along with
Bill and Charlie's uh is to have this
cons and come in this year especially
given we're going to have a lot of
capital projects in the ne next couple
years and it's crucial
we have the correct rate
now go ahead I'll respond to that Kelly
um so klj or is it kjl I you mix me up a
little bit whichever one it is
um KJ klj So within this same study
would we be and if we're looking for a
data Trend we can get that pretty
quickly but most certainly that can be
if I would expect that to be part of the
study be if we can also have them do a a
uh an impact study on development to go
along with that like as Kelly said we're
getting ready to rebuild our sewer plant
um it shouldn't all come out of the
current rate payers some of it should
some of the development should pay for
our expansion sure and I would expect
part of the rate study would also be a
potential recommendation for what the
GFC we call it GFC or GFF but as new
development come in comes in they have
kind of a buy into the system called the
general facility charge and I would
assume that could have a recommended
increase potentially as well so new
development is paying more of their fair
share for that that's good point if we
had answers on that I'd feel comfortable
voting on it next
week or next week we have me right in
two in two weeks and when when's this
answer due
by well part of the obligation was to
have a preliminary report available for
the October 9th Public Works committee
meeting and that's what I'm targeting
but we could certainly um you'll have a
report in late October or November we
just wouldn't be able to put it through
the committee first well it's a first
first read too um so I think you know
waiting for a second read or if we want
a motion a table it that works too but I
would take a second read I work at the
pleasure of the council
so so am I understanding correctly that
if you don't do the rate study now then
you won't know what to budget for in
next year's budget in time or I won't
necessarily say that I would say uh that
will influence what we um propose for an
event the budget for this year going
into that that's part of what that is
I would say that the uh analysis done by
the consultant is extremely extremely
thorough and not something that um I I
have the myself have the capacity or the
anyone in the finance department has the
capacity to complete there's a lot of
there's a lot of considerations um in
that so we can of course provide a trend
of what our rate has been um but it
doesn't necessarily indicate what our
future 2025 rate needs to
be
um so ju just putting out putting out
that information that we don't currently
have the capacity within the city to
complete this thorough analysis ourself
we do uh do rate studies ourselves for
solid waste for solid waste which has a
little bit although they you know
there's has its own complexity it's not
quite as complex
as you know um it's not quite as complex
as a sewer utility or storm water
utility I think we're just looking for
the two weeks and get the data and it
would be hard pressed to um maybe we
should have got this before us sooner if
we were that crunched on time I don't
know but two weeks doesn't sound like a
large amount of time to to ask and see
the trends and see the data and I mean I
know that it were coming up on a capital
project but a lot of that Capital
project I thought was already in plans
and being funded according to my
discussions with Mark fryberger that we
had that in motion so you know we're
we're I think last year they also
included that we would be needing a
capital Improvement project so it's the
same information every year that's what
I'm saying um I would be in favor of
just waiting for two weeks and then
getting that data before us or finding
away wouldn't it be next week I'll make
a make a motion for next week if it's
one week on the 11th I will second okay
we have a motion to delay um this um
um let me look the professional service
agreement until September 11th is there
any more
discussion Madam mayor Ju Just to note
that that is challenging for staff
because today is Wednesday
and we put out the packet by the end of
the day Friday probably will be
September 24th meeting and that that is
a pretty challenging timeline but don't
they already include Trend data in their
analysis report so can't you just pull
up last year's report and pull the trend
data out from their report or look at
the last and just say hey this last five
years we've increase the rate this much
based on that consultant it doesn't have
to be super thorough I'll take a look
thank you Bill appreciate that I mean if
I can get it get something out for
September 11th meeting I will if not we
can wait till the 2 you know the 24th is
the next council meeting after that
because I want to get you the right
information I don't want to get you okay
but so that we're not ex um uh setting
high expectations there is that
possibility that when it comes time to
vote upon the budget we may not have the
correct data and right well I would say
that um you know it it it will be a less
confident and
accurate U recommendation which is fine
we can do that too um but certainly then
we um you know may have to
have um we may have to make that up the
following year to a certain extent if if
we adopt a rate study that's U lower
than we than the analysis recommends
that's all it is okay
okay so if there's no more discussion or
questions we do have a motion on the
table by lav councilman lavaka seconded
by councilman handerson to delay um this
current agreement all those in favor
signify by saying I I oppos same
sign okay so I want to State for the
record I see where councilman Paul cooch
has come online and so um all council
members are here in chamber tonight
present in the meeting okay
um thank you
for uh working through that next we have
a um presentation uh but regarding the
golden eye battery energy storage system
project
presentation um I want to thank our
guests for coming in here tonight I know
that some of you traveled a great
distance to be here at our request so
that you could do a presentation for the
council um as part of the decorum I am
requesting that there is respect and um
professionalism shown by the audience um
they are our guests they are here to
present to the council and so with that
I will introduce them um the first
is Nicole DS and Nicole DS is community
relations she's a manager community
relations Tommy Nelson is the lead
project
developer vasu panipati is the vice
president inine engineering and
construction retired captain and
assistant Fire Marshall Mike Nichols is
the energy storage specialist and fire
consultant Hiller
companies and Brad Cole is the senior
project
manager so um with that we will turn
this over to you I don't know who's
starting will that be you all right
thank you Nicole absolutely good evening
everyone um Mayor Johnson council
members uh thank you for allowing us to
be here um my name is Nicole DS um I am
manager of community relations at tanasa
um the company that is developing the
golden eye energy storage project um
tanasa is a NE Omaha Nebraska based
company uh with over 35 years of
experience in the energy space and a
long history of um developing
constructing and safely operating um
facilities all over the country so thank
you first we want to uh thank you for
inviting us here uh this evening to be
able to share an overview of the project
with you um and answer any of your
questions um we also want to thank those
of you that are in the audience um that
may be had been in attendance at the uh
recent fsec hearing um those of you that
were able to share your thoughts um at
both at the hearing and on our project
website as well as um to FC um this
proposed project is um in its very early
stages uh for a um an extensive
permitting process um but we welcome um
the engagement involvement um of
everyone um at each step um so today um
with me I have uh subject matter experts
in development um in
engineering uh in environmental and
safety um and again my role is in
community engagement so I welcome um any
one of you um that would like to to
discuss um your concerns directly um but
I think right now I'll turn it over to
Tommy Nelson who is our lead project
developer uh to dive into the project
but uh again thank you for your time
this evening
thanks Nicole uh next slide
please so and thanks again to the city
council and to Mayor Johnson for
inviting us to present and uh to the
members of public here in attendance um
want to start our presentation here by
sharing some information about the
process that leads to a project like
this even being
introduced uh it begins with local
utilities identifying energy needs uh in
the case of Washington the plans call
for an addition of significant battery
energy storage capacity uh the cedra
Wooly substation was identified as one
of the ideal locations for a best
project utilities then issue requests
for proposals to meet those needs and
developers respond with projects that
serve the public interest and those
projects enter pering
review We are one of many developers
offering to leverage our expertise and
experience to support these priorities
uh next slide
please why are the utilities looking to
add best to the grid well uh the
underlying reasons for this are well
known to some of you but uh for others
in short the reason is Washington's
power grid is strained and the potential
for energy shortages which can lead to
blackouts and brown outs uh during
periods of peak demand are on the
horizon additionally the trans
transition to clean energy leaves the
grid dependent on intermittent resources
such as wind and solar that do not
produce when the sun isn't shining or
when the wind is not blowing energy
storage is a viable and critical way to
keep the lights on for homes businesses
and
infrastructure and it's why best
facilities are being considered in every
corner of the Pacific Northwest not just
scet
County next slide
please these are a few of the uh
headlines and media clips that uh have
come out recently uh public attention on
these issues has has definitely
increased local and Regional media
Outlets have begun exploring the impact
of the grid and energy challenges and
the need for Solutions next slide
please now we can uh go into the next
slide
please uh now we talk about how the best
projects themselves work
in a very simple way uh what they're
doing is storing energy that is
generated during periods of peak
production so that power can be
delivered during periods of peak demand
or when there is a shortage of energy
being
produced uh next
slide and this uh is just a you know
Source from PGE But A visual
representation that kind of help
understand what is is effectively
happening here there's intermittent
resources when solar Etc and batteries
kind of fit in that middle range between
the generation and the end
user um go ahead to the next slide
please so a little bit about the history
of Bess uh lithium ion technology first
came around in the
1980s uh commercialized in the early 90s
really didn't uh emerge at the utility
scale level until the early
2000s um it's important to not
there's a big difference between the
utility scale best projects such as the
golden eye project and other lithium ion
uses such as cell phones e scooters
electric vehicle
batteries and utility scale best
projects have been intensely researched
by National Laboratories including
Pacific Northwest National Lab pnnl here
in Eastern Washington uh and today these
projects are being proposed in every
corner of the state next slide please
an important aspect of how these
projects get cited and where they're
located
uh where they are is um to understand
what criteria are considered when we're
citing one of these
projects first and foremost they must be
placed in close proximity to utility
substations this means best projects are
built in areas with a history coexisting
with existing with electric
infrastructure uh pictured here is the
cedra Wooly substation from an aerial
view uh approximately 14 acre industrial
facility less than half a mile from the
proposed site for Golden ey like the
proposed golden eye project the facility
is heavily regulated to ensure
environmental safety and Community
compliance next slide
please one of the first questions in
response to any proposed project is
safety and this is the top priority to
NASA in the development of battery
energy storage systems we work with top
experts in the field and coordinate
closely with local first responder
agencies in every step of the process a
small number of incidents have been well
publicized but are extremely rare and
the industry has learned how to best
prevent them from happening and respond
them to them effectively when they do
and that's one of the reasons we have
our uh technical experts here this
evening for you guys to ask
questions uh next slide
please the golden ey project
specifically will utilize the safest and
most Advanced Technologies available
which will meet or exceed all applicable
codes and standards independent experts
and local fire authorities are consulted
at every Stage Standard here standards
here in Washington have been updated and
new best projects being built are
subject to significantly more stringent
requirements than they were at the
outset next slide
okay you can go ahead to the next
one the proposed location of the project
is shown here in this picture just uh
north east of the substation and as we
discussed previously the golden eye
project is proposed to be located next
to an existing industrial footprint the
Cedro wooly
substation um we will collaborate with
local stakeholders on any m measures and
just as with the substation the facility
will coexist with the surrounding
environment the site is zoned for uh to
allow major utility developments as a
special use which uh this project has
been designated by scet
County next slide
please uh there were a number of
concerns that were raised at the FC
hearing that I would like to kind of
address um ultimately what I'm about to
share with you will have to be validated
by the scientific processes that FC
employs uh the facility will not be
allowed to move forward if it doesn't
comply uh first that the project has a
low elevation profile it will be
consistent with the current view shed uh
second the project will not release any
emissions or radiation from the
batteries uh leakage cannot occur
because there is no free liquid inside
the batteries again it's important to
understand the difference between
utility scale best and other lithium ion
uses as well as battery chemistries that
are not
comparable the facility will comply with
local noise ordinances as does the
substation next door specifically they
will comply with scet county code
chapter
9.50 uh in addition to the Washington
Administrative
Code while this project is in a 100-year
flood plane all the project components
will be raised above the uh those levels
and as part of the construction and
approval of this there will be
enhancements to the stream buffers and
we are prepared to make whatever
Investments are required of us in that
regard uh next slide
please uh
so during the uh you know process of
entitling this project and working
through the FC approval process um one
of the things that will happen is uh we
will develop as part of the the building
permit process and emergency response
plan uh that will kind of outline all of
the rigorous safety protocols that will
apply to the specific battery chemistry
and manufacturer that gets selected for
this project uh but what we have done
all along is engaged with Fire District
8 with the scet County fire marshall uh
We've included the scet county
department of urgency Emergency
Management we've uh brought in fire
protection Engineers to make sure that
we're having you know the experts that
are helping to craft these codes
speaking to the first responding
agencies um we also want to mention that
you know when this project gets
commissioned it will have a manufacturer
Le safety training uh that includes all
of the First Responders and then
additionally uh by anually throughout
the life of the project there will be a
repeated uh version of that training and
that's as the code gets updated we're
capturing updates to the NFPA and that's
uh you know capturing turnover and first
responder agencies too so that uh newer
folks are are getting the training for
those
facilities uh next slide
please these uh facilities do come with
a host of monitoring and security uh
features and it's important to know that
these will be monitored 247 by several
different agencies uh first and foremost
the
uh the best manufacturer the actual
manufacturer of the technology and
whoever the owner and operator of the
system ends up being uh and then the
we'll have a third party uh safety
monitor such as Hiller companies or some
other uh company such as that and then
Additionally the oftaking utility will
also be monitoring this 247 so there's
at least four separate entities that are
going to be monitoring this facility
24/7 during for the entire uh operation
lifetime there will be regularly
scheduled on-site maintenance uh in
addition to it being remotely monitored
and we will have you know cameras on
site to monitor it remotely for um any
uh need there uh next slide
please the project is designed to last
for between uh 20 and 30 years and there
will be ongoing maintenance requirements
at the site um but it's not an an
everyday thing uh there will be uh
augmentation of batteries somewhere
along the way where old units get
swapped out for newer
units um and then as part of the
approval with fsec we're required to
submit a decommissioning plan for the
eventual removal of the project if it's
not uh re-energized at at the end of its
permit or or uh Project Life Cycle and
uh that governs the decommissioning of
the project and recycling of the uh any
applicable materials on the project like
the
batteries uh next slide
please and here are a couple of um
visual representations of the project
that are included in our fsec
application that I'm sure uh many of you
have seen uh the top shows the existing
conditions along minkler Road along the
north side of the
project
uh where the overhead um transmission
lines are and the bottom shows proposed
conditions with uh you know vegetative
buffering and uh a block
wall next slide please
these are a couple more views from the
opposite direction on minkler
road next slide
please so as I mentioned before uh you
you don't have to take our word for it
that the project will integrate with the
local community and uh you'll have FC to
fall back on um it's the responsibility
of the of an independent state agency to
determine whether the project can be
built if it's approved for construction
the project will then be overseen by the
utilities and Transportation Commission
and fsec will be responsible for
ensuring that it remains in compliance
with all of its project conditions of
approval next next slide
please and finally uh if project does
move forward uh it will deliver benefits
to the local community in for in forms
of jobs uh tax revenue and local energy
reliability
uh you know this project represents
a I was gonna say thank you a
substantial investment in the community
and will be responsible for uh
approximately 75
jobs uh next slide
please and finally uh I wanted to thank
all of you for giving us an opportunity
to present um happy to take the
council's questions and we'll definitely
be listening for comments uh you know in
the upcoming weeks and as a reminder
these are the ways that people can get
us information or questions and uh the
project will do its best to
respond all right thank you thank you um
and I'd also like to I know we we kind
of got the introduction earlier but this
is vasu pinapati uh vice president of
engineering construction and Mike
Nicholas from Hiller companies they're
also here to answer any technical
questions or more from the uh fire
safety standpoint all right thank you
I'm going to open up questions to the
council go ahead councilman Burns thank
you madam mayor so would I be correct in
assuming a fire would be the worst case
scenario at one of these
facilities I I think that's relative but
that would certainly be bad okay and you
said that it doesn't leak but I'm
curious uh once there's a fire is there
the potential for that to then get into
the groundwater at that point if they're
spraying it off with fire hose rain you
know what is the potential uh ground
penetration because we have that uh
Creek Hansen Creek right next to it so
that is a big concern for me sure um
it's a good question it's been asked uh
and I would say that the uh you know
General consensus with the First
Responders now is that water is not used
as a method of putting uh of of putting
one of the units out U I'll let
Mike elaborate
any thank you mayor and Council uh the
culture within the fire department is
changing as a result of the technology
that's emerging uh Kern County was the
kind of Ground Zero for these projects I
was the assistant Fire Marshal there I
was in charge of Permitting witness
testing and uh overall oversight of the
entire project which is now the largest
battery energy storage project in the
world at 3.2 gwatt hours and I was was
mentioning to Chief earlier that that
was like trying to swallow an elephant
hole I had no basis or understanding of
what this technology was much less the
impact on the firefighting culture we're
used to engaging directly trying to
extinguish a fire anytime that there's a
hazard we're proactive in taking an
approach we look at these fires more
from a perspective of isolate and deny
entry observe and contain because
extinguishment or attempts to actually
extinguish the fire can create secondary
concerns like you mentioned if we put a
lot of water on there you know you have
water now that's going to be as a
byproduct of that particular incident
and it's unnecessary because these fires
are really and enclosures are designed
to consume themselves completely and the
less we engage them directly and
interfere with that process uh when we
do apply water we elongate the incident
and I know a lot of incidents of
reference that are happening right now
are from OT Mesa down in San Diego we've
got uh Moss Landing in montere chandeler
Arizona but these were all incidents
that took place with indoor
installations where the ability and the
luxury of disengaging wasn't an option
you had secondary exposures which were
the building themselves that needed to
be addressed so that they didn't become
part of the incident in an outdoor
installation which is the ideal the
enclosure can be managed and monitored
it can consume it itself it's going to
be out much quicker if we don't apply
water or extinguishing agents to delay
the inevitable which is the full
consumption and basically the
uh it's the ideal sort of environment uh
in a fire to let it consume itself
entirely so that we don't have a longer
term you know Incident That's committing
resources that's committing secondary
resources like water so this is a change
in culture for the fire department and
one of my jobs is to be traveling the
country teaching fire departments and
and offering that level of training to
help change the mindset so that we're
looking at not an incident that's ATA
last 10 days and you're committing
hundreds of firefighters to the incident
because it was a generation of batteries
that Tommy mentioned
wasn't held to the same standards so we
have learned a lot over the years when
this first started it was 2019 in my
jurisdiction we're now 5 years later
half a decade and so what we're seeing
is that these Technologies uh the codes
that are regulating them have evolved
from the lessons learned and so these
enclosures are now the biggest
consideration in NFP 855 which I just
sat in the committee meeting in Atlanta
last week is that these enclosures are
designed to not propagate between one
another so you're not going to show up
to an entire battery storage yard with a
fire you're going to be facing at worst
case a single enclosure that's on fire
and the best thing that can happen in
that instance is to isolate deny entry
observe and contain the
incident May if I might follow up on
that um so you said it would totally
consume itself so what's left I mean it
rains a lot here what's left is there
going to be something that's going to
end up in that uh that Waterway uh you
know is it going to be a metal container
that's left is it going to be uh a
different chemical compound what's going
to be left behind after for that process
of the fire and then uh the other
followup I had was uh if you're going to
let that burn the chemicals that are
released from it um how toxic is that
what kind of a range uh is that going to
travel as far as safety or we going to
have to evacuate a certain area right
and so we've seen in the incidents of
reference that when the fire is allowed
to actually burn at its normal rate the
toxics are consumed in the fire and the
rate horizontal spread is minimal by
comparison the the rate of travel of the
most
uh how shall I say so carbon monoxide
travels horizontally the most and that
still is not very far from the enclosure
so when we show up as First Responders
we're using our for gas meters and
that's going to be what establishes the
edge of that exclusion zone for us and
that isn't traveling more than you
know it's not traveling far enough away
to impact the community
so when we're looking at
this yeah it's kind of a vague answer I
I get that it changes
but
what one of the
so uh thank you I need all of you to not
speak until public Comon if that's when
you want to speak um right now these are
our guests to our city your guests our
guests so I am asking that we show
respect one of the things I would just
say to your question too is those are
all questions that get answered when the
emergency response plans get developed
for these projects as kind of the next
step in their uh you know as they get
closer to
construction go ahead yeah I'll just add
that
uh prior to issuing the building permits
for construction we will provide uh uh
emergency response plan hazardous
mitigation analysis which is what I
think you're referring to and also a
plume analysis we will demonstrate that
in the event of a thermal runaway SL
battery fire you know how the toxic
gases and how far they travel what are
those toxic gases levels we will conduct
a plume analysis in the neighborhood of
the facility and provide it as as part
of the uh emergency response plan prior
to issuing the building construction so
the fire department will have an
opportunity to review those documents
before issuing the building
permits go ahead counc Henderson all
right thank you um just to follow up on
uh what Joe brought up under your
proposed fire protection plan section 5A
subsection 3 adequate water supply is
critical to the fire protection system
so there's a fire protection system that
puts out water in in your guys's
proposed plan so um how much water uh it
it goes on to State volume duration
pressure and flow so how much water is
that and has it this even been confirmed
with our local public utility district
that we can that we can provide
that as part of our initial Outreach
with scet County they identified that
the
um the water needs weren't going to be
able to be met by the city water line
that runs along minkler road so the
project was asked to upgrade the water
line from uh you know a little way back
up to the the project it's approximately
2600 feet of water line and then after
the construction of the project it would
be dedicated over to the Public
Utilities
District okay um thank you and um could
you could you address the part about the
the adequate water supply is critical to
fire protection system because we just
listened to you tell us that you just
let these things burn out but there's a
fire protection system I so when we're
looking at fir water especially in
current County one of the things that
we're looking at is not for
extinguishment and suppression but for
exposure protection so you can cool
ajacent enclosures if the heat is
beginning to negatively impact the
adjacent enclosure so it is for
protection and not for
extinguishment so mad
Maya so is this considered a combustible
metal the lithium in there how hot is
the rate of
burn if it does did catch
fire depending on the depending on the
hazard mitigation analysis the
technology that's used has different
compositions that's actually going to be
a determining Factor on the heat flux
which is going to be what heat is put on
off by an incident at worst case so it
isn't necessarily the metal in the
battery because at the cell level on a
UL 9548 test which is a requirement for
underwriter laboratory there aren't
toxics that are put out and this goes
back to the other councilman's question
about the toxic composition what we're
seeing out of studies out of New York
from other incidents and from uh other
testing Labs is that the composition of
the smoke is very similar to what you're
seeing in house fires because of the
presence of upholstery carpets Foams and
Plastics so when you start looking at
some of the byproducts of combustion
that are coming off in a battery fire
it's not the cell itself it's also the
enclosure the the module the Plastics
around the module so we're seeing
similar uh toxic compositions in regular
combustible house fires I'm thinking
more of the the heat generated so if you
have a combustible metal then let's say
titanium right you don't want to pour
fire on it or water on it because the
water will go back to its base chemicals
of hydrogen and oxygen and is that what
we're looking at with this lithan if
they were to catch fire would they reach
3,300 Dees would they reach 3500 Dees
where water would then be a concern of
explosion you have put on to it no this
is not going to be the same thing as
your magnesium fires where the water
actually explodes like you're mentioning
so this is a different chemical
composition and the and the percent of
lithium in these batteries is very
minimal by
comparison so not putting water on the
fire to douse it out and just letting it
burn through it's going to burn out even
with water on it it's just going to
continue to burn the water is only going
to just slow the process it slows it
down and it cools it to where some of
the toxics are not burnt off
completely I have a question one more
follow if that's right so psse uh they
did come here uh in April and earlier in
the year as well and they insisted that
we had plenty of energy for our grid we
were showing them phone text that we
were getting that that they were asking
us to conserve our heat you know because
wintertime um but then we turned around
and got rid of natural gas so is this
like a response to the supposed to
supplement the natural gas is that what
the idea of putting these battery plants
around and and I know you guys probably
don't get in the politics of the natural
gas band but um to to supplement the
energy we're losing from our homes with
natural gas and relying more on
electricity these projects like these
are a required uh part of the energy
transition to intermittent resources
like wind and solar and
hydro
okay I had a question councilman diamond
oh councilman go ahead yes uh I had
two questions the first was um I drove
around that facility recently um and
there are quite a number of homes near
it and if you go do West there's the
city of cedral wooy and in the C I've
read about some of these fires and some
of across the country and some of them
involve um evacuation especially if
you're just going to let the fires burn
um that's my first question the second
is that the proximity of H Hansen Creek
uh you know that's a salmon stream or
it's it's involved with salmon and
restoration uh if you're letting the
fire just burn won't those uh fumes also
affect the qu water quality and of that
nearby stream thank you thank you
Paul I'll uh can you restate the first
question again well the first question
he was talking talking about the concern
of housing can the the first thing
talked about the need for possible
evacuation of all the houses near there
and I I can ask a third question sorry
you shouldn't have asked me this to
restate it evacuation around there and
um how quickly that would happen because
as I read this you're not going to have
Personnel on site it's remote monitoring
well that's great but how quickly do you
respond and if you need to do evacuation
how quickly could do that the second
part had to do with the water quality of
Hansen Creek if there was an
incident so I'll let uh Mike and Basu
answer the the first question other than
just to reiterate that again that would
be those would be details that we would
uh include as part of our emergency
response plan uh and
generally there's uh a move towards
shelter in places but again that depends
on the specific technology so once that
decision has been made whatever the the
brand more or less of batteries it's
going to be then several of those uh
kind of cascading uh questions after
that will fall into place we'll
understand what we can include in the
Hazardous Materials analysis we'll
understand specifically what we can put
in the emergency response plan and I
don't know Mike anything you want to add
sure so a lot of what we're seen with
the fire department trainings is a
default by fire departments that didn't
have a specific training that are
defaulting to the Emergency Response
Guide which is a national reference for
evacuation shelter in place based on
Hazard unfortunately that natur or that
National Emergency Response Guide does
not have lithium batteries as a specific
hazard of reference and so a lot of
jurisdictions are defaulting to this
shelter in place or an evacuation over a
distance that they come up with the
closest approximate Hazard and what
we're trying to inform and educate the
fire industry as a whole is that these
are different than what we see listed in
the National Emergency Response guides
and there is a big push within NFP 855
right now a whole toxic work group that
I'm involved with that are looking at
incidents of reference that did soil
samples air sample and water samples
post incident both in New York in uh
Indiana and in various places where some
of these incidents of reference have
taken place which are showing no toxics
in the water that was run off and none
in the soil post incident versus
pre-incident and we're starting to see
that these really require a special
identification with the Emergency
Response Guide that has its own category
for reference in discussion with Chief
Joel Mendoza from uh North County where
Moss Landing took place where an
evacuation happened and a shelter in
place happened and a freeway closed he
admitted was because of visibility
visibility not from smoke specifically
but also from fog so when you have some
of these jurisdictions of reference that
had these early incidents that other
fire departments are referencing there's
a misconception about the need for
shelter in place and for evacuations
based on the hazard that's specific and
again these were very early excuse me
generation Technologies which have
changed dramatically over the last half
a decade because of these incidents of
reference and Lessons Learned so you're
going to see these changes reflected in
the National Emergency Response guide
and in NFP 855 for guidance and
Direction on First
Response okay and what about the fact
that it is uh uh remotely controlled and
how how would that affect the response
to an
emergency so these systems are monitored
offsite by an NFPA 72 compliant UL
listed Central Station the Central
Station then is in communication with
the emergency dispatch so if you get an
alarm smoke detector gas detector heat
detector that initiates the response
from the fire department to come out so
there should be no delay in the
response Council uh thank you and then
is anybody gonna talk about Hansen Creek
I think there's a lot of yeah I have I
have lots of questions but sorry I was
going to just spin off that real quickly
District 8 relies uh heavily on
volunteers and Cedar Wily holds the
contract to partner with District 8 in
emergency response has discussion been
had with the city of Cedar woly and how
they're going how they fire intends to
respond to all of this and if there is
an emergency who is funding this and how
is Cedar woly then going to fund the
backfill that's needed to supply and
take care of our own citizens in our
city so again all of those details will
be kind of finalized in our emergency
response plan but what
I but what I can say is that uh
the First Responders would include scet
County and Fire District 8 who both of
whom we've met with and had uh long
ongoing conversations with and and uh so
we in tend to include their input into
the development of that plan and when it
finally you know gets approved that it
will have included their
input so all none so so the project
itself can be pushed through and then
all of that becomes an afterthought so
to speak it's it's put together after
the project is approved and the design
goes into place is that correct in my
understanding no the well not not that
it's incorrect it's just that we're in
the kind of uh entitlement phase of the
project and once we get into the um you
know construction permit or ministerial
permit design phase that's when you know
things like the battery chemistry
selection get made and that's when the
final plant design gets uh you know
designed and and again the emergency
response plan details come available
with uh you know the technology
selection okay so nothing on this
project has moved forward in regards to
the property or anything else at this
point no okay I mean other than our you
know environmental uh studies and and
surveys and and those sorts of things
but no
no construction or anything like that
well we're a long way from from that but
that's planned for as you know early as
2027 councilman
Henderson so coming your mic your mic oh
whoops so coming off of the um off of
the fire discussion I'd like to change
the topic a little bit and um go on to
what uh your actual business model is
how will you get a return
on investment for your project how will
the rate payers be
impacted and who will you be selling
energy
to so um I'm G to unfortunately
disappoint you in the response here
because the uh exact commercial nature
of the project is yet to be determined
so we're not sure yet how the um
contract is going to govern the buying
and selling of power from it but
eventually it will
become uh you know but but what I can
say is that you you know this is a local
reliability energy infrastructure need
and project and it will be fulfilling
the local energy needs first we won't
necessarily be able to say whether or
not it'll ever be sold in another state
but what we can say is that when there's
a need it'll serve the local need
first do you can you um so the last the
last part about selling we'll just we'll
just scratch that um but how how in your
guys's opinion will the um how will you
get a return on investment and how will
the rate payers be impacted by
that like any other infrastructure
project this you know project has a you
know uh an upfront investment that's uh
paid off over time through its Revenue
contract that's with whomever the
off-taker is going to end up being and
that's we don't know that
yet okay yeah councilwoman KY thank you
um given the
please it's a
presentation we need to listen thank
you given the strong opposition from our
community regarding the battery storage
facility in seedar Wy does our Town's
position influence
your decision to proceed with the
project additionally why would a
business not local to seedar wooly join
the Chamber of Commerce if there are no
plans to maintain a long-term presence
here how do you justify this action in
light of the community's clear
concerns we understand that there are a
lot of concerns and part of the main
reason that we're here is uh a part of
the process of address ing those
concerns um this project is critically
needed and would not be in consideration
if it weren't so uh it does still
require an exhaustive approval process
and we take all of the feedback in into
consideration along the way
um tell I would add to that um your your
question about the Chamber of Commerce
that this project does plan to be here
for 20 years um the the the life of the
project um is that long so being a part
of the chamber is really the the we are
continually trying to invest in the
community um that's what we believe the
project to do as well as um being able
to to be a a business um representative
amongst the other chamber members so
what I hear from the county from the
citizens is that they don't want you
here yet you've joined a chamber to make
that
decision so it so if we didn't want you
here you're saying that you you're
already showing that you plan on being
here so is this all for nothing no it
was our effort to to show that we wanted
to be in the community obviously this
again we've we're in the early stages of
this project um there is so much more to
go through through the permitting
process but we wanted that that's our
attempt to to show that we are we are
committed to being here for the period
of time that that we have we've stated
the project to be be part of the
community so it's it's not saying we're
going to be here regardless of of what
the community
wants okay councilman lavaka thank you
um I'm curious about the business model
as well because if you don't know who
you're selling it to or what the the
cost of that was would be how can you
Endeavor into a business venture and
then is there government subsidizing
that's going into the initial
investment uh I'll take the second part
first um the project would be uh
eligible for um various tax uh benefits
as part of the inflation reduction
act um and then sorry the the first part
was the how if you don't know what your
return is going to be how do you how do
you know if your investment is even
going to pay off is it because it's
government funded or subsidized that's
uh definitely above my pay grade but uh
the I guess the short answer would be
that if it you know the every project
has
to survive on its own merits and this
one's no different um so
we we would
leave it there okay um I I understand a
lot of people actually vote for this the
climate act in Olympia and so they they
uh you know this is a response to that
and this is what you guys are saying
that these are going up around the state
and uh you know there is a lot of people
that are upset by that because it goes
right in their backyard but then they
themselves continue to vote for that so
it's ironic but um it is one of those
deals that this is the response it seems
to those decisions made and and how they
how they vote right thanks councilman
ly thank
you I listened to the meeting you had
over at the community center and I've
listened here and I'm not a very smart
guy and everybody's concerned
about Hansen Creek the river
population and I'm not hearing any that
sues any of those problems and like I
say I'm not real smart but is there what
am I
missing you know can can you speak to a
different way to me so I can
understand there's there's got to be
something I'm
missing I I don't think that you are the
the project still has to undergo its uh
environmental review process through FC
and uh if there's not an impact that
can't be mitigated then the project
won't proceed
forward well probably one of the things
I probably am missing is my distrust for
the the way that the government's doing
their thing is basically bypassing
everybody but that's
[Applause]
probably but I do appreciate you being
here it's just it I there's I need some
more in there
I actually have to concur with
councilman ly in that we value our
Farmland here we value the the the water
that we have here it's our livelihood it
is our livelihood and we respect it and
we take care of it so I guess my
question would be to you you're talking
about these plans that you have in place
for safety for um mitigation for um you
know whatever evacuation if that were to
take but I my question is are there any
assurances because I'm not hearing any
Assurance is actually what I'm what I'm
I'm G getting more questions there's
more questions that I I find myself
asking so um you know I I understand the
project is to develop power but isn't it
only for 4 hours and 40,000 homes
approximately it's not like if power
goes out that's all it would do
correct not not technically um we
provide that uh kind of as a way to
contextualize how much energy it's
storing um but realistically you could
think of it as you know 200,000 homes
for for four hours or 100,000 homes for
eight hours or you know just it kind of
depends on what the need is how it gets
dispatched and where where would it be
dispatched would it be here in the scaga
valley or it would be elsewhere it's it
like I said earlier it's going to go to
its closest need first uh so the local
need uh we be
I serviced first um to answer your
question okay I'm sorry I didn't I
missed the first
part well I I just want to reiterate
that this is our farmland and our water
is precious to us as it is everywhere
else it's our
livelihood um and it's kind of
perplexing that you're going to run the
power underneath Hansen Creek is what I
was told is how you're actually going to
do that is run it underneath Hansen
Creek MH and what if there is um a
breakdown in the um means by which
you're using to transport that
power it it will be boarded underneath
and it'll be we don't have a final depth
but our engineering team has looked at
it and said that it'll be at a minimum
10 to 15 feet below the scour depth of
the uh bottom of Hanson Creek and could
is there a possibility that there could
be gases or toxins that could be
released and then seep up into that
Creek no this is just for the the actual
conductor themselves that's the only
element that's underneath the
creek okay all right mam mayor if I yeah
go ahead counc Henderson um I got kind
of a four-part question here so bear
with me we'll um uh what what other
sites were investigated
um so you guys are tanasa correct you
guys are not Goldfinch Energy Services
Goldfinch Energy Services are they the
investor and you are the
contractor the project was initially
developed by originated and developed by
tanasa we the still the uh retained as
the developer uh if the project does end
up moving forward the you know exact
ownership model will be yet to be
determined but what go Finch was was the
you know
initial uh project company that tanasa
formed to develop the the project okay
and um so what other what other sites
did you investigate before settling on
this location and what factors what were
the factors that made the determination
to put it on um a natural resource land
so uh we looked at several factors
there's uh I'd say first and foremost
there's proximity to the substation uh
being the the
primary you know variable that we want
to constrain that impact the most the
transmission line uh and then you're
looking at you know things like parcel
size um and then you're looking at you
know what are the environmental
considerations of a particular parcel so
wet lenss uh you know any sort of
excluded areas um and we actually looked
at quite a large number of parcels uh
around that
substation um I don't have an exact
number for you but it was it was a lot
um and at the end of the day you know
there's a lot of constraints that start
Xing pieces out like you have to exclude
an area because it has an easement on it
or uh you so there's a lot of
considerations that go into kind of what
boils down to the final parcel selection
and then at the end of it you know
you've got a find a willing partner in a
landowner as well so we we did look kind
of at a lot but I would say that egg NRL
is an overwhelming zoning
designation uh in the vicinity of that
substation and major utility uses are a
permitted use with a special use permit
okay um I'd like to talk a little bit
about that too for um Wetland mitigation
uh this site on your guys's initial
report states that it is within the
100-year flood plane uh what is your
mitigation plan for the wetlands and the
flood planes on site and also to note
our county code prohibits building
critical facilities within special flood
Hazard areas unless there are no feas
feasible Alternatives available so how
do we determine that we have no feasible
Alternatives available to build a
battery storage site so the uh all of
the project elements will be elevated
out of the flood plane so so we'll just
take that off from the top that either
through uh Earth elevation or uh
installed on peers um or a combination
of the two uh that will obviously you
know impact Wetlands as well and we're
uh We've submitted a mitigation plan to
the state uh for their concurrence and
that would include uh offsetting from a
local mitigation Bank
Council lavaka um I'm still I'm trying
to wrap my head around um we've got the
battery station and it's going to
survive it's going to supply power to
scet County so for roughly 16 hours if
it was the immediate need um so 16 hours
we don't have that many blackouts for
one and then uh a regular home base so I
would imagine it would go to the
hospitals first but if it goes to the
homes and stuff like that I don't know
that anybody's at such an need where
they need power for for that immediate
that it would justify the high cost of
this program which seems to be pretty
high and pretty extensive for just 16
hours if it was to just go here if it's
4 hours for 200,000 homes that's that's
really nothing uh I mean is that during
Peak usage everybody's got their
microwaves and their washers going or is
it just your average average day in the
home right and we have we have sources
we have natural gas and we have energy
um there is a growing need because we're
killing off our energy supplies but if
that does turn around does it make sense
to do that or will the will it be
abandoned I guess I'm sure there would
be a
decommissioning requirement in that but
what if it is
abandoned uh so FC would be responsible
for you know we we do have to submit and
have submitted a decommissioning plan
with FC it'll get finalized uh again
before we get our site certificate and
as part of that decommissioning plan we
pay uh fsec on an annual basis and they
monitor the the project and they monitor
our compliance with our project
conditions but who would pay the money
for four hours of service for 200,000
homes or if you do 16 just scet County
the entire County you got maybe 16 hours
of usage once and then you got to
recharge everything again which means we
need that grid back going by that time
if the power's out for 16 hours and it's
out for 24 hours or 48 hours if it's
that kind of a crisis um where does the
financial stability come in or incentive
for the company to even do
it I would uh you know have to say that
again the individual project economics
are confidential but every project has
to be able to survive uh you know if we
didn't believe in the project viability
we wouldn't be bringing it forward
I just don't want to see where all the
sudden we're setting up infrastructure
and then we get rid of our Natural
Energy uh ability because the way the
state votes um and so we lose that and
then the prices go skyrocketing for
people to be able to power their homes
at enormous rates and there's
infrastructure set in place that would
be the investment opportunity I could
see but not just like we wouldn't need
that right now we haven't had a blackout
like that in scaga County where we've
ever needed that so unless there's
something in the future that we don't
know about just
seems I would have to agree with them in
fact uh PSC sat here and gave us two
presentations over this last year and we
asked about energy usage and how the
grid was impacting especially when we're
talking about the state coming down to
the city level and telling us that we
need to start building more homes more
homes more homes higher density higher
density and they 10 I'm asking about
this the grid and whether we can
actually accept that
energy usage in order to make that a
viable reality for the city of sudra
wooly and in all of those conversations
we have been told that our energy is
completely fine we have no issue and
that we should have proper energy in
order to build those homes and this
seems to me as if this project has been
going on and completely contradicts
exactly what we've been told by
psse at the local
level I yeah
[Applause]
councilman councilman cooch do you have
other
questions yes I do um you you say this
uh
sorry you say this technology is uh
pretty new um but from what I've been
reading uh the there's a we're on the
verge of a um storage Revolution
shifting from lithium uh battery storage
that has fire issues to more advanced
solid state in fact that's where the EV
industry is going Volkswagen
Toyota and would you then have to shift
your technology I mean how long is this
technology going to even last that's my
question yeah
uh you're right uh there are some
Advanced uh you know solid state battery
technologies uh in research however I
would say they are probably a decade
away for uh you know full scale
commercialization uh so lithium ion
battery technology which is uh
commercial and bankable we would expect
this to continue to be there for at
least in the next 15 to 20 years uh as
far as is uh you know changing the kind
of a technology what we have installed I
think we'll continue to see some uh
enhancements within the lithiumion
Battery Technology that will be
incorporated into this uh project as
part of the operational cycle uh but
right now lithium ion battery technology
is the commercial proven and the other
technology that you're are referring to
probably a you know decade away before
being Bank of and
Commercial all right thank you okay
councilman Burns honestly this is more
of a comment than a question um from the
emails I've gotten and the conversations
I've had with constituents what I came
here expecting or wanting to hear
tonight was about the the safety and how
exactly everything worked with one of
these units when it came to if there was
combustion if there's possibility of the
contamination in the creek
and your answer was essentially well
we'll figure it out when we get
there show up with a battery and just
say you know hey the last three projects
we use this brand battery and this is
what happened this is what happens if it
burns this is what happens if there's a
possibility for rain runoff or
contamination if it doesn't burn at the
hottest temperature that will burn off
all of those chemicals this is the
result this is how far um the chemicals
have been found on the ground after it
was on fire that's what I was expecting
we were going to hear from you tonight
so I feel like I had almost none of my
questions answered which did not make me
feel comfortable with this at all it
made me want to push back even more on
this project so I feel like we
[Applause]
didn't as a as representatives of the
company I expect that your goal is to
come here and convince us that we should
be okay with this and convince them that
it's safe but I don't feel like you
really Achi that goal at all and and so
I you might want to change the way that
you're considering this because I'm not
walking away with the solid knowledge of
your safety protocols at other
facilities maybe yeah if I may there is
one uh I think we have been saying that
in the case of a thermal runaway or
battery fire because of the change in
the CES because of the change in the
technology these fires will be limited
to One battery enclosure only
um there's no such a facility fire and
all the fires that happened in the last
3 4 years Mass landing and other places
actually validated the thesis that we
are telling which is there is no
facility in The Last 5 Years the whole
facility has gone on fire and design
worked as you know as per the code it
just contained to Only One battery
enclosure only so that's a validation of
you know kind of assurance that we are
telling that in the case of a thermal
Runway it does not spread to the
adjoining
enclosur but you're assuring me that
only one battery catches on fire but I
want to know what if it's raining at
that point if that battery burns up
entirely What's Left Behind for is there
Ash that's going to get run off into the
Waterway if it's not burned up entirely
because we have a torrential downpour
and it slows down the fire it doesn't
reach that critical temperature that
actually allows it to burn off the
chemicals that are there what happens
then if it's a windy day and it's not
raining where does that Ash go what's in
the ash th those are the questions I'm
I'm curious about yeah as Mike mentioned
uh you know some of the testing that we
have seen after the reference incidents
are showing no contamination in the soil
and there's no toxicity in the you know
plume gases and again as part of the
emergency respons it's our
responsibility to give you the plume
analysis and hazardous mitigation
analysis for your fire department
review yes go ahead cman
Henderson thank you uh so as as
representatives from tanasa you're
proposing building this project um can I
ask how many best facilities tanasa has
successfully built and
operated there are uh 200 megawatts of
tanasa developed best in operation right
now 200 megaw of tanasa developed best
under construction and 10,000 megaw in
development how many buildings is that
if you may how many actual buildings
you're saying the megawatts how much
does each facility produce or hold uh
the exact you know so I would say there
are in a range from about 150 megawatts
to 300 megawatts and you know so each
one is in kind of a 2 or 250 range
so you got like 200ish out and 200 200
plan and then a couple under development
yeah so how many uh a
couple in terms of 100 facilities
facilities uh the 10,000 megawatt under
development that Tommy referred to
equates to about 50 facilities under
development so that's that's 1 10,000
megawatt
under
construction uh one 200 megawatt
facility that's up and running and the
10,000 so that's three right there's no
three facilities like so so if we're
taking if we're taking this proposed
project as one facility right just this
one right um taking out the megawatt
confusing talk how many sites have you
guys
built successfully and are operating how
many different sites there's we have to
be uh careful how we respond to this
because not necessarily every tanasa
developed uh project is owned by the
same entity so there's confidentiality
agreements that apply there uh but the
as I said there's you know a 200
megawatt facility in operation there's a
200 megawatt facility in construction
and uh 10,000 megawatts of projects in
development so you have one facility and
one under construction that's right
thank
you okay right are there any other
questions councilman okay go ahead um
who who did the RFP for this project the
request for
proposal uh we are the project responds
to uh utility rfps so psse so in this
case we're responding to a PSC RFP
okay counc laka yeah so I just go back
to um when PSC was here and they were we
were talking about the growth and they
insisted we had plenty of energy to
suffice the growth and um you know I
think Sarah at the very time you said
it's April and I'm still getting texts
because it's wi because I'm being asked
to shut down my heater um and they said
oh that that must be a mistake there's
definitely plenty of of uh energy and
then they're the ones requesting the and
then the facility doesn't make much
sense because like I said it's not
financially sound at this point and it
hasn't something hasn't been something
that would have been um over the
duration of of Washington right um so
it's interesting to find that they're
the ones that are kind of requesting
this unless there's uh you know I mean
it would have to be profitable to
them that would be who pays for energy I
guess with PC I would just add you know
this uh this is preparing for the future
um like you like we said we've we've
responded to to psc's RFP
um we wouldn't be PSC wouldn't be
investing um in these future uh kind of
resources if uh it's not needed and also
um brownouts aren't happening yet uh but
the transition to these intermittent
resources uh they're expressing the
confidence to communities because uh a
lot of this has already been accounted
for in that IRP um so that those are
just kind of some thoughts on
that I see they're saying that we're
good because in time they hope to have
facilities like these approved by the
communities this is all future planning
yeah and this is all in response to the
climate act that Washington voted in you
guys voted in so maybe not you guys but
overwhelming people in Washington I
didn't so yeah and then just to clarify
when we're talking about the communities
voting this in the city of Cedar wooly
and the scet county actually have no
actual say in this approval process this
is at the state level so this is
bypassed the local community um and so I
just want to to make that clear in
regards to um any sort of Council vote
that there will be no vote here because
as you can tell we probably have a lot
of the same concerns that you have um in
fact I also have more questions as this
comes through and I'm more insecure
about the entire project after listening
to it because we don't have
emergency um response
drafted at all it's all a matter of you
know when this project is approved or
when we do this or when we do that and
that leaves everybody feeling completely
uncomfortable um we councilman Burns
mentioned that you know his questions
weren't answered in regards to radius
and and effect and all of that if if you
know we do have an emergency you know
there there's a lot of unanswered
questions that leave our community with
more questions and leave us uh more more
insecure about it and we also feel a
little bit more uncomfortable in the
fact that psse was telling us that we
have proper grid and in fact it's coming
forward that you know maybe we do now
but nobody's nobody's talking about the
future and all of that and again it goes
back down to um to the state level where
this stuff is coming from but I just
wanted to be very clear about the fact
that you know our our local community
here is here to be heard and you should
every single one of you that wants to
speak should be heard
um you have every right to do so we
welcome you at any single council
meeting to do so um but at this at this
city level uh we are not able to vote on
this councilman
kesy I just wanted to say that I
completely um agree with everybody up
here and I'm so proud of all of you guys
for all the questions and everything
that you're asking I feel completely
deceived by
psse um and by you as well and I just
hope that um you will listen to all of
us that we don't want this and um not do
[Applause]
it so councilman do you have one
last word that you want to I think
everybody's gave their opinion do you
have anything else to add
uh no I think they're all great points
and um I am concerned that uh it appears
the wishes of a vast majority of our
community as well as uh the entire
Council it sounds like uh I hope that
those uh comments and thoughts will be
uh taken into account by um the state
Regulators who regulate those because
you know there's I mean
everybody has to deal with this thing of
nimi not in my backyard but in this case
I really think there's so many concerns
environmental concerns safety concerns
uh and it's near quite a few homes that
I just have significant concerns and I
hope those are communicated in some way
from our community to the state
Regulators thank you all
right so
[Applause]
yeah so uh Nicole Tommy Vu and um Mike
also Brad we want to thank you very much
for being here this evening coming um
and answering our questions um we
realize that you are here at the behest
of our of our request but also that you
have been requested by psse to also look
to move forward with the possibility of
building this project so um you know I
know that you certainly probably have
the feeling that that you seen as the
enemy here um I don't know that you are
truly the enemy I think that there's um
things there's there are decisions that
have made Beyond you beyond us and
perhaps those are the people that we
need to be asking these questions to as
well so um I do but again I do want to
thank you for being here um uh you know
I respect your positions and what you
are trying to do and what you believe in
and we hope that you will feel the same
about about us and uh where we stand on
this issue so yeah all right um with
that um I I do want to give you the
option if you would like to stay we are
going to open it up for public comment
you're welcome to do that um if you do
not wish to do that um you know you're
certainly welcome to leave as well
so sorry no we'd like to listen
abolutely all right thank you all right
so
um I am going to call upon thank you
Cy um
those those individuals that have um
signed up here on the public hearing I'm
going to address them first I do have a
request and that is if if you hear
somebody come up and they um they share
exactly what it is that you have wanted
to share um you know feel free to say
you know I just concur but you know you
don't have to say it over and over and
over again we hear you we hear you the
first time we have her heard you the
first time so um if you would be so kind
to do that because we will limit it to 3
minutes I mean if you do the math you
know three minutes and we'll be here
forever yeah so um so the first person
that I have on the list tonight is
actually Peter Browning and um
commissioner
Browning good evening I'm Peter Browning
County commissioner and um thanks for
joining us I do have to clarify a few
things I was listed as one of the
Consultants we met once and none of this
was discussed the location none of it
was really discussed so it's a little
uncomfortable seeing my name listed as
as a consultant in your
paperwork
um also I want to hear if there's a
difference between proximity to the
power station or proximity to the
Bonville power administration's major
Tower over head which would be a massive
input to a grid and a grid that would
serve the whole state so when you talk
about
proximity what is it so that's really
important to me knowing if it's a a
money maker for an overall grid um there
may be a place for battery farms in our
County but scet with the flood Plains
the farmland and next to a creek a creek
we've just spent Millions on just
restoring millions of dollars over the
last 10 years have restored that Creek
to its salmon recovery y it's not this
is not the place for this the county is
not against battery Banks we the
Commissioners and said absolutely it it
is a part of the bigger picture of of
care and power but we're aware that
other possible locations this County may
be more perfect thank you alen for that
I appreciate you asking that question
there are other places so we do however
believe that they should be required to
follow our most serious land use
requirements not bypass them with fsec
that's frustrating for us next to a
creek or a river this is just tooo
obvious they can't guarantee that you
get a response from a team in here under
24 hours that was the discussion 3 weeks
ago you can't get somebody here in under
24 hours 24 hours is not good enough for
when you're putting volunteer firemen at
risk all of our firemen for the most
part are volunteers you're putting them
at risk with something that is
potentially quite dangerous so again 24
hours um there's not a way we can allow
a stream that feeds into the SC the
third largest river on the west coast
could could get damaged from the runoff
from any impact from this from these the
batteries we need to be assured because
again the third largest river on the
west coast massive Salmon River and H
and Creek goes right into it if a flood
Covers Part or all of the battery Bank
during flood season now here's another
inconsistency you said it would be low
profile and then right after that you're
saying no it's up on stilts which is it
uh it can't be both so we need to know
is it going to be way up and it's going
be quite visible and offensive or is it
going to be low profile being very
vulnerable to um a flood and a flood
around here are very very massive at
times they're very scary they're huge
and that would be really one of the one
of the waterways
so um so it could be detrimental impact
on the Hansen Creek and the gadget again
uh and I understand this is new
technology I understand that but at the
same time I don't feel comfortable being
the test case for new technology um one
place that's in operation and quite a
few more in the works absolutely and
this could be the best thing in the
world but we have to be assured that
we're not going to be put at risk
commissioner Brown in your three minutes
is up I apologize your three minutes is
up um also I want to address the the
count or the uh public here that it was
a it was a presentation that was given
to the council so when you're giving
public comment the public comment should
be also addressed to the council those
are excellent questions I don't want to
dis miss any of them not in one of them
not even your comment but um just
they're they're not here to answer
questions for the public so thank you
yeah thank
you uh Connie
CER oh I can talk fast
okay hi my name is Connie CER and I am a
board certified Safety Management
specialist and I work in industrial
safety and health for a living but today
that's not what I'm going to talk to you
about um in the late 1960s the
government and the energy companies were
telling all of us including those of us
in scet county and they that the demand
in this state and Nation would exceed
the supply that we have for energy
unless we built nuclear power plants
there was six supposedly supposed to be
built in Washington state one here on
backas
the citizens were told by politicians
and corporations that this was the
newest and best form of energy and it
would solve all of our energy needs with
minimal environmental impact citizens of
skic County knew better and after a long
hardfought battle to save backis hill
and samish Island in 1980 after 12 years
the plans for the power plants were
moved to Hanford Gadget County
implemented regulations to prevent this
from happening again when it came to
nuclear power yet here we are again
with the newest fad for politicians and
for corporations the same old snake oil
with a new label and new Peddlers that's
it we're here being told generation
after generation that giving up our
environment for energy projects that are
supposedly in our interests when the
reality is the more energy that's made
and saved it just means that the more
energy is sold and used this cycle is
devastating and it is our job job as
Citizens to continue our Legacy of
protecting the gadget Valley from
corporate greed and outof count
interests Washington is at a Crossroads
and it's evident by the vast number of
energy companies that are flooding into
Washington to become the next richest
corporation with multiple forms of clean
energy taking over our farmlands that do
not provide a sustainable future for our
children or for
ourselves there's a term that was
recently brought to my attention it's
called greenwashing it means something
such as a product or policy or a
practice
that appears to be more environmentally
friendly or less environmentally
damaging than it really
is currently in Washington state there
are 88,000 acres of land under lease
agreement for green energy projects many
of those acres are undeveloped or
farmlands or native lands um CRA wooly
bears the burden of being the major
support for all of scet County from here
all the way up River the burden of care
and services Falls to Cedar Woolly and
all the CI U River and we hold our own
in the case of an emergency corporations
aren't going to be here they're not
going to be here to help us they're
going to cut bait and leave behind
lawyers and the laundry list of llc's
and layers and layers of people that are
supposedly working to service this plant
the people of cedra wooly are resilient
they're strong and they have long
memories they waited for years to and
they waited a few years to try these
same old tricks again and it's not going
to fly it took 12 years last time of
fighting and all of these people here
are willing to spend 12 more years
fighting this
one Scott
Patterson hi everybody thanks for coming
uh my name is Scott Patterson I'm just a
concerned citizen I don't have a long
list of
qualifications uh but the first thing I
want to do is thank you folks for saying
everything that I was going to stand up
here and
say and uh I mean I I was raised in this
Valley I raised my kids my kids are
raising their kids right next door to
this place and I don't believe a thing
about it being safe there's just too
many potential problems and um we really
think you can find another place for it
I'm going to give up the rest of my time
there's 40 people that signed up that's
two hours thank you thank you Judy hogas
okay first of all I can say I want to
change and make other comments that I
wrote down here but I'm G to stick to
what I
wrote um first of all my name is Judy
hoges I live on Warner Street 401 Warner
Street in Cedar woly I know many of you
personally friends acquaintances all of
it some new acquaintances that have just
stepped up for me
um first of all I'm a former vice
president real estate loan and
Commercial loan officer per People's
Bank which is a locally family-owned
Bank in Wacom County and I did many
commercial properties with developers on
land be it Wetlands be it floods flood
zones and you know I can understand
mitigating the wetlands okay I'm going
off script you guys I'm winging it here
um mitigating and taking another parcel
somewhere else and saying that's your
Wetlands your tradeoff I get that the
flood zones you can bring in your 60,000
cubic yards of Phill I think is what you
guys are proposing to do you bring that
into that site have you guys planned on
what it's going to do to the other
Parcels that surround you water's going
to run downhill to the lowest point
developers got shut down so many times
for housing developments to be put in
because of they were in a flood zone if
they had a water Source on their
property a small cck let alone being a
salmon bearing cck of five species of
salmon that are born in that cck they go
out to the ocean they come back and they
spawn in that cck that doesn't happen
very often we've done an investment
millions of millions of dollars before
my time here in Cedar
willly and you know to say it won't
happen it it can't happen um we it just
it just is amazing to me all my mind is
scrambled from this meeting already but
the biggest thing when a commercial
development developer came in I'm going
to go fast here is he had come in he or
she would come in and he' have a plan
he'd have a business model he knew what
he was going to make how many homes what
style homes how much they were going to
go for what his profit was going to
be you guys are saying well we don't
have all our business model get together
together quite yet we don't have our
fire safety plan issued yet but you guys
take the risk in the community we'll let
you know what we come up with and as our
commissioner Patterson he mentioned that
um Browning commissioner Browning I'm
sorry um Browning that we're a volunteer
base I don't know if you guys know what
that is our community steps up and
volunteers their time to go fight
battles of hires emergencies in our town
and when they have to go out and fight
your battle our town is going to be
limited and exposed and just at risk we
won't have the coverage that we need for
our community and our citizens to be
safe I'm going to shut down I didn't say
anything I
wrote and I'm just I'm so angry I'm so
angry but the biggest thing now you guys
um your time is up can I say one thing
Julia please just give me Scotty's time
the the time is now for our community to
stand up you guys showed that tonight
and I appreciate every butt in the feet
if you don't talk I don't care but I
don't want you guys to think you can
come come in here and first of all take
our Eggland then you jeopardize our
waterways our water source you
jeopardize our wildlife and most of all
you jeopardize citizens 10,000 over
what's in this room and we're the
community that's going to take on all
the risks okay thank you okay and I'm
sorry thank
you so Matt
Phillips Matt Phillips and a reminder
you're addressing the council I'm sorry
I want to make
iact no Matt Phillips okay how about
Matt
Steinman first off I want to I want to
thank um Mayor Johnson and our entire
city council for all that you do for
this community
and uh and all the Fantastic questions
that you you all posed today I think
there's a lot of people who had like we
all talked about had more questions than
answers which is concerning um but thank
you for the enlightening questions um so
again my name is Matt styman I um am a
fifth generation
scatoni um I I've been farming
organically here in scet for more than
20 years I currently manage more than
200 Acres of organic Farmland the
majority of which is just Downstream
from the proposed site Hansen Creek goes
through our farm for almost a mile and
we have put substantial amounts of of
energy and work into into um sustaining
and regenerating the creek and helping
to bring back all five forms of
androgenous salmon that we are now very
proud to see come and spawn and go back
down and organic farming
is you have to work one with with nature
and so I'm here today like I said I'm a
farmer um but I'm not here as a farmer
today I take that hat off I'm here as a
scatoni as a father and as a very
concerned resident and um I just I need
to speak for for the land and and again
the questions have not been answered in
any appropriate way and in fact there's
more questions than there were um but I
want to take a step back so more than 45
years ago this County in the and the
citizens endeavored to protect our
number one natural resource which is our
farmland and the way we did that or one
of the ways that we did that was to
create the egg NRL zoning reality and
what this does is allow us to only have
one house per 40 acres so that a family
farm can actually own enough land to be
sustainable now I would I would argue
that those economics have changed in the
last 40 years and it's you need probably
more than 40 acres if you really want to
be a viable farmer you're almost just a
gentleman Farmer at 40 acres anymore um
and but what that really does when you
remove the tax burden on that land is it
allows the farmer to to have a cost
structure that they can actually they
can afford farming is more work in heart
BL Blood Sweat and Tears there's not a
lot of profit margin in it and so what I
see here happening is we have we have
large companies coming in and and trying
to swoop in on this Farmland that has
it's not devalued um from my standpoint
and this community standpoint this is
our natural resource again but it is
devalued from a financial standpoint to
allow farming to maintain itself in this
Community Matt I'm sorry your time is up
thank you thank you but Sally
Carlson thank you Council I
appreciate Council mayor
Community I'm Sally Carlson my parents
were graduates of the high school here
in
1952 and 53 my grandparents and my mom
grew up just down the road from where
this proposed site is um my grandfather
fished on the gadget for salmon my
parents grandparents my
great-grandparents are all buried here
on this land my kids my grandkids live
here the people who serve on this
Council our County Commissioners and our
other elected
officials they make the law
and rules for our people we elect them
to do
this the people on the FC committee were
appointed they are steamrolling these
energy projects through without regard
for the
residents of this Valley they're using
our Farmland taking away housing
endangering our
Wildlife um and our drinking water
that's
concerning this is government overreach
it's overreaching our city and county
regulations and laws without due
diligence
tanasa has farmed out parts of this
application Pro process to contractors
who have obviously never stepped foot on
that parcel of
land to read these reports you would
think that it's a desolate parcel of
land
Barren quite the opposite Hansen Creek
is a living breathing stream with
salmon it provides for the nearby
nesting
Eagles it provides for the deer that
cross that land it provides for our elk
herd here in this Valley lithium
batteries are not the solution they are
a
Band-Aid they destroy more of our
environment to produce these toxic
things a battery storage site does not
belong on this productive Rural
Community Land so stop stop the insanity
all right thank
you Al Chandler
Al
Chandler thank you all Al Chandler uh
currently
um property owner in cedra willly and a
business owner and I agree with all of
you and I am am ask the city to U do
what they can to stop this before it
gets
crazy and somebody gets hurt and I'll
pass my time to people have better
things to say thank
you thank you Lance
Hansen so we're a local farming family
uh we've been around on burmaster road
which is the next Road over since the
1940s
we've owned the farm there it's less
than two miles from this site uh my
biggest issue is the loss of Farmland uh
this is the last true agricultural
County north of
Olympia and uh we have a history of
farming in this area and Farms protect
open space and human sustenance by
producing the food that you eat without
Farms you L lose basic human survival
and food security also grown locals an
important aspect that will be lost if
Farmland continues to be lost to
projects like this uh Farms protect open
space for wildlife elk and deer roam
this area I actually just saw three
Blacktail deer out there two weeks ago
driving to my parents house uh it's a
lie that this place has not been farmed
uh hay has made there annually and the
previous owner at a horse farm I drove
by twice a day by this place uh my whole
life so uh Farmland is already
threatened by uh growth development and
Industry and you not cannot replace it
once it is gone we must protect what
little is left from development as it is
as a finite resource there is also the
loss of income and local jobs from
losing Farmland over time it's a huge
part of the gadget County economy I do
not support this project and it's
obviously the whole Community is against
it as well as the local Farm Bureau I'm
on the farm schad County Farm Bureau
board and we're against this project
because of the loss of Farmland we
cannot allow this to happen to lose more
Farmland in this County also how can you
call this a green energy project it's
only energy storage not actually Greenly
produced proding energy so to me that's
kind of a
misnomer so basically I don't want the
loss of Farmland as important to me so
all right thank
you Pam
Nelson hi I'm Pam Nelson I live at 29252
hoen Road the property just south of the
of the proposed property only on the
other side of hoen road Hansen Creek
runs through our property my son Matt
was just here speaking so I don't want
to repeat the five generations and all
the Farmland but the wildlife the creek
the salmon the birds the deer the
coyotes the beaver it's amazing what
comes through there and how beautiful it
is and we live there we could live
anywhere we live there because it's
beautiful it's quiet it's private and no
one wants that to be interrupted or
taken away from us um I also our family
also owns Foothills Toyota and Honda
Burlington so I'm well aware of the
lithium industry in the car business as
well it's very
controversial Automotive news comes out
once a week just this week a dealership
burned down in San Diego because of a
lithium battery fire they couldn't put
out um I think lithium
batteries at least within the Auto
industry are going to disappear within
the next 15 20
years it's a very competitive market and
these companies that come in and with
all due respect you all have a job to do
but it's all for profit and what do you
where do you think they're going to get
the return selling that energy selling
that and who's going to buy it us does
that mean our our our energy bills go up
talk about insurance talk to your
insurance agent if there's a fire or
they going to pay your claim if you have
damage maybe but in the future will they
cancel you or raise your rates so
insurance is a huge issue safety is
bigger than I think they even know and I
really appreciate the council for all
your questions they were wonderful um
we're all with you and I think we should
continue to be very vocal
all right thank
you Cindy
Chandler hi I'm Cindy Chandler my
husband is Al Chandler we own a business
in Cedro woly we also own a farm and
another piece of property for with my
son and his fiance and and that property
we just purchased last fall that was
that property is probably within 400
yards of this propos facility there are
young couple that are getting married
later this month planned on starting a
family building a house and having the
whole Spiel of being living and growing
in cedra
woy now we're looking at the possibility
of if this plant goes through anything
toxic or anything that happens they
wouldn't want to live there and I used
to have a a game with my kids called
what if they would want to do something
and I'd say okay but what if this
happens is it worth it they always
wanted to hold the Roman candles at
Fourth of July and I said okay what if
you Austin Who Wants To Be A baseball
player blows off a finger or you Daniel
that want as a musician blows off a
finger well was it worth it what if and
that's the what if here you say that the
that it's not going to happen it
shouldn't happen but what if it does is
it worth it to these families to these
farmlands to the
people what
if thank
you ivy moer
good evening thank you um my name is Ivy
moer I do not live here as a full-time
resident I am um Alan Cindy's
grandaughter uh I do however my little
brother and I do own a piece of land
that is within three miles of where the
battery station will be placed
potentially um and I mean not
withstanding obviously all of the
environmental impacts um just the
economic impact that it's going to have
on People Like Us who have these
Investments for us that we aren't going
to get Social Security when we're older
we're they've told us that we're not
going to get benefits we need things
right we can't we can't have things that
are given to us thrown away that we need
for our future because there's
environmentally economically for me and
my little brother there's going to be
nothing and anyone we're very privileged
anyone in this community who has
something like that who doesn't have
also any other external way of
supporting themselves in the
future they're what are they going to do
you know what are what are people of my
generation the younger generation is
going to
do thank you thank you
I Peggy
Syrian Peggy Syrian sign theer
okay Isabelle Warner sign you okay
uh zie is that
right all
right we're moving right through this
list Scott
Schuler good evening thank you for
allowing me to speak uh my name is Scott
Skyler I'm the policy rep for the upper
gadet Indian tribe it's a pleasure to be
here
um I I wrote many of the uh concerns
that the tribe has with this project
down but uh everybody articulated them
so well basically I have to just
basically say that we're in concurrence
with most of what was said here tonight
um but I will share a little bit of our
history here we've been working on the
scad river Watershed uh recovery for the
last 50 years uh We've invested millions
of dollars on salmon recovery and and
projects that we partnered with the
County local communities various groups
and we've done a phenomenal job working
with folks on Hansen Creek for the last
40 years and the the system is
recovering uh the salmon are coming back
like many folks have said here it's
utilized by many species of Wildlife and
uh this is about risk assessment and
risk assessment must be done by
individuals here and the tribe looks at
this project as there's no guarantees
that there will be no environmental
degreg down the road or no accident or
anything that will adversely impact the
progress we've made and so from our
lands we look at it is there a benefit
for the community very dubious at best
after hearing what was got you what was
said tonight is it beneficial to Salmon
absolutely not is it beneficial to
Wildlife absolutely not is it beneficial
to our culture absolutely not so the
list of positive things that could
potentially be gained by moving forward
with this project are virtually
non-existent at this point and so the
council will be working to develop a
letter of opposition and to to send to
the state of Washington and all the
permitting agencies you know even though
the per the project may have permit
regulation compliance that does not
avert the risk to the community and to
the natural resources that are so
important to everyone here so again
thank you for your time thank you Scott
minaa Dennis Allison
okay Stephanie Estrada
thank you for hearing what I have to say
tonight I am Stephanie arrana um we live
within probably 400 feet of the
substation now you were talking about
okay if there is an accident the
toxicity that comes from that we have to
evacuate a letter that we received
within if you live within a mile you
have three minutes to get out you can't
get everything together in three minutes
and we want to sell our home nobody's
going to want to buy unless you want to
buy and are you going to pay us what
it's worth we I'm sorry I'm trying to be
respectful but we don't want you
here thank you all right thank you
commissioner
weon yeah thank you very much Ron we
sketch County Commissioner I really
appreciate all the great questions the
council had tonight I think you did a
very good job explaining the concerns
that I've heard of the community and
you've definitely voiced it very well I
think want to comment a little bit on
the aoi that the county staff had
presented this had never been come to
the County Commissioners to make any
decision on um what the county staff did
they had a preapp meeting and these are
the things the steps you have to do to
get this kind of project moving forward
and the staff called it a major utility
which have a hearing examiner um special
use permit process and so that' have
public comment and all these issues
going forward so it's not that the
County Commissioners voted to say yes
you can move forward these are just the
steps you would have to take before a
permit would be issued at the county
level um but because they're going to
the fsac system my understanding the
county has absolutely no say on what's
going on because they're doing the
regulations so forth and I think some of
the good questions were brought up about
the funding you spend $250
million where's the payback on it
obviously you buy low and you sell back
high that's how the process works so
somebody's going to make that extra
money and I don't see any way except the
rate payers are going to have to make
that up but the other thing people need
to realize the petown energy um they
we've had some projects that they're
trying to do up by the port of Gadget
and the developers have been told that
pound Indy is not able to guarantee the
amount of power that those companies
want to have in the future so there is
definitely an issue with the Grid in our
area here because of the the draw that
is coming in and the grid is very
complicated hook together but there's
just so many substations where they can
hook in um the County Commissioners came
out with a letter talking about how we
don't believe this is the proper site
for this location and we definitely uh
thank you very much for having the
meeting here but we definitely County
Commissioners do not believe this is a
location we should do this so thank you
thank you
commissioner and that statement is on
your website we we have all read it it's
and it's also included in our packet so
thank you very much powerful words we
appreciate it um Kimberly osterhout
um my first thought was if there happen
to be a leakage we have within a small
radius we've got Lyman all the way to
our high school we have six schools of
kids and with all of those kids if there
is a leakage and they were in the
schools the school the um bus drivers
would have to get to the bus yard would
have have to load all their stuff that
they have to do drive to the school pick
up the kids take them home then they
have to go back for their second group
of kids and do the same thing and my
thought was how long is it going to take
for you to take care of the toxins or if
there's a fire for our poor kids so I
was just thinking about the kids thank
you uh Dwayne
Gish all right fantastic thank you um
Jean
flurry
no okay
[Applause]
okay I just wondered I just wondered one
question about the safety of it
if somebody drove by that thing and a
high powerered rifle and shot
it what what happens then I mean we have
stuff like they they've attacked some of
the power stations it's happened if
somebody drove by one of those places
and shot it does it does it catch fire
that could take out the the HVAC system
they could take out the response system
Anything could happen so you know
somebody some kids could get drunk and
go by there and think it's fun to shoot
the thing I mean what what could
possibly happen there's and and I read
one deal where they were talking about
this company I believe it was their it
was their company about they asked about
the security about it and the security
about it they said that they were going
to put a six- foot Cyclone Fence and
razor wire I mean that doesn't stop
anybody from going in there and causing
problems I just don't understand why
there isn't more security involved
besides the other problems that I see
anyways that's all I wanted to ask these
people about that all right thank
you um Aaron spola am I saying that name
correctly all
right and then right below it is a
kin and I can't make out the last name
the spelling I
apologize
tools is there a kin in the house
okay moving on uh to mateline
Chandler I'm sorry Marilyn Chandler my
apologies
Marilyn um this is ironic um I'm sitting
next to the chanders I've never met them
we're not related so good way to meet
your
neighbors all I'm Marilyn Chandler and I
have lived within one mile of the
proposed minkler Road site for 39 years
with my husband
Gerald both sides of my family my
mother's and father's side have
Centennial Farms in Ceda woy that's over
a hundred years and I also was born in
cedy I express my opinion to oppose the
project due to its close proximity to so
many citizens I believe this project
does not belong in a residential
Community the proposed minkler Road site
is not a good location for the battery
energy storage system I feel it lacks
concern for Public Safety after reading
up on the possible failures and human
risk of exposure to toxic chemicals due
to a fire or thermal runaway they are
not taking into account the need to
evacuate so many people we must prevent
this from occurring near our sensitive
zones protecting our children and
schools and
neighborhoods our natural
resources the future of Hansen Creek and
depending on wind direction the
possibility of contaminating Judy
Reservoir which serves countless PUD
customers I ask that you find a
different location this is not the right
place in the heart of our community the
future quality of life for seedly
residents could be in jeopardy
a risk no one should be taking a gamble
on I would hope that our generation
could stand up and fight for this town
with a hyphen just as those before us
became famous for standing up against
the nuclear power plant we need to fight
again for Cedar woolly our future
Generations depend on
us thank
you what I have gotten out of this
meeting is how are they going to monitor
in a snowstorm in 16 degrees when it's
snowing sideways in in the middle of the
night and the wind there was a windstorm
once my husband is a firefighter that
the the power poles on minkler road went
over across the road and they were up
for 24 hours with no sleep going to call
after call after call so the
wind we get a lot of bad wind storms and
that's one problem so thank you all
right thank
you is it
Riley flury is that correct
[Music]
yes can you hear me am I close
enough first off I want to thank the uh
Council for their questions uh you asked
a lot of questions I think everyone here
uh has been wanting to know so I thank
you for that um again my name is Riley
flurry um heard a lot of your concerns
here voiced tonight and I I'm curious if
the company um uh will be adhering to
the will of the people or if they are
just going to go ahead and do whatever
they want despite our concerns they've
already shown us that uh they don't care
about following scet County land use
policy they just want to go ahead and do
it
um but
uh aside from that it it seems like
we're being used as guinea pigs here and
I don't really like that especially
since we have all this precious Farmland
that we need to
protect and I I see no
considerations uh from the
company on uh other risks like
earthquakes uh as some of you may know
uh we have two at least two active fault
lines that run right through scet County
what uh happens when we have an
earthquake and these things leak and
they leak into our water table um I I
just don't see
the uh benefit of having four hours of
extra power and then the offset of you
know poisoning our water table I just
that doesn't make any sense to
me um so despite your claims of
renewable energy and a cleaner
environment it appears you're willing to
risk irreparable damage uh to our local
environment and
ecosystems and while uh you guys go
safely back to wherever it is you live
uh SC the people of scad County are left
with what I see as a ticking time bomb
and uh that is threatening our land our
water and our people so as a resident of
scet County I demand that uh this
company stop this Reckless project in
our County and if you and Ensley want
this so badly you can build it in your
own
backyards we do
not we do not want it here and we do not
consent thank
you jennif
[Applause]
ribel jennif ribel
okay okay thank
you okay thanks Jenna Freel scadu
drainage and irrigation Consortium uh I
Echo everybody's concerns about
overriding um County and cedra Wy policy
land use policies there are um checks
and balances even for state agencies and
task force and the growth management act
that would require the state and um the
committee to consider fair and equally
Farmland protection both at the state
level and the local level and I would
encourage you guys to pursue State
authorities to protect Farmland also
just to sort of come back to our uh the
flood plane issues the sighting
selection in the flood plane um is a
poor poor decision as you guys know
we've been negotiating safe levels of
flood storage at Ross for four years
we've made several presentations to the
county as part of those negotiations
state federal state federal and local
tribal government ments have raised
significant concerns that the the um
additional flood storage would be used
to encourage unwanted development and
growth in our natural resources lands
not just the critical areas the salmon
streams but also the flood plane and the
Farmland so um this is something we've
heard loud and clear we've made numerous
promises publicly that the purpose of
the flood storage is to protect current
development that's in the flood plane
and absolutely not encourage growth
thanks thank
you zindra
[Music]
Nelson thank you mayor oh thank you
mayor and Council for listening to us
tonight um my name is zindra Nelson I'm
a resident of skic County um I've raised
um nine kids here part of them are still
at home um I um I strongly oppose the
battery plant going in into seizure wooy
um I run a couple of programs or I help
run a couple of programs homeschool
programs that meet in seedar willly and
I have kids that work here in seedar
will and I'm concerned about the
toxicity as well as evacuation um I had
heard that you know there's like a three
minute window to get out of the
immediate
Zone
um where our homeschool Co-op meets is
in insire Church um our home school cop
is about 100 families we have 325 people
in attendance there are 225 children on
any given Friday during the school year
that meet at this Co-op at inspired
church and we are just down the road you
know just down the road from the
substation so um I'm concerned about
evacuation and whether or not we'd need
to shelter in place um you know so I'd
consider us one of the an extra school
that is in the if evacuation Zone um
with that in mind you know we would need
a sorry I'm nervous we would need
appropriate emergency training for
myself my leadership and all of the
families that attend the assessment we
would also need the assessment for
appropriate emergency response equipment
and supplies if the shelter in place is
required um we do not have access to
public funds we are homeschoolers so we
don't have any of the um notifications
or anything that comes normally that the
school districts
receive so um that would um cause extra
Financial expenses on we don't really
have the supplies the means we don't
have the preparedness for that
um so yeah we um If This Were to go into
effect I would like our homeschool Co-op
to be included in the emergency
prepared preparedness plans and I expect
that any Communications or
accommodations that are made for Public
Schools also be made for our home school
Co-op which is called First Class Gadget
County
um I am concerned about evacuation I'm
also concerned about toxicity um when
you look at what the CDC says is you
know with the hydrogen
fluoride you know that if it gets moist
wet if it rains the the acid rain aspect
of things if it's you know they say that
it's this type of battery or it won't be
this they don't they haven't told us
which kind of battery it is so don't
know which version of toxicity it will
be um but if you go to the cdc's website
they talk about um if it gets in your
eyes you'll go blind if you if it gets
on your skin major burning and blisters
um if it's internalized you can
drown from your lungs being filled up
with water so go to the cdc's website
and look at the um the chemical stuff
you'll find some really interesting
information there anyway um I yield my
whole three seconds of time thank
you Edie
bolra no Eddie Val
Mullen Val Mullen from Cedar Wy I have a
question for the council and for
tanasa uh first of all if the if there's
a potential fire would be restricted to
one building why do you need to hose
down adjacent buildings to keep them
from getting
hot and some of the research that I've
done uh similar proposals in King County
have uh stirred local opposition none of
these projects have actually occurred
within the ever Seattle or Tacoma area
this project is the first time theany
has applied to a state agency FC which
can preempt local land use laws lithium
batteries make may may be considered
green energy but this is just a myth the
mining the processing and disposing of
lithium and Cobalt carry heavy
environmental and human costs the
extraction of lithium takes about 21
million liters of water per day
diverting it away from local Agriculture
and community
ities the mining process itself leads to
soil contamination water and air
pollution and destruction of
ecosystems production of the batteries
themselves requires heav heavy energy
input most of that energy is being
supplied by fossil
fuels producing a lithium battery
weighing 1100 lb for a car emits 70%
more CO2 than producing a conventional
car most Co VA mining occurs in the
Congo where child labor and unsafe
working practices are Rife it costs more
to recycle the lithium battery than to
mine more lithium so 95% of lithium
batteries go to waste the list of
stakeholders in the application includes
the tribes the County Commissioners the
port of scad County the landowner Puget
Sound Energy and the state Department of
archaeology curiously the stakeholders
do not include the community that's
affected by the project at the recent
public hearing tanasa stated their
intent to tweak the Project based on
public input if they really wanted
public input why not include the public
as stakeholders in their original
application thank you thank
you Brad Anderson
[Applause]
well listen to this dude over here talk
about
safety with this particular thing is
like listening to a Boeing exec tell me
about where all the emergency doors are
when the plane
crashes but anyway what I'd like to
speak I have a family member who is on
one of the head boards for the Hanford
nuclear
plant and 30 years
ago when I visit him over in
Kenwick he was quite excited he had had
20 years worth of work on the
books 20 years later I go over there and
they've got 30 years work on the books
all in the development of the
containment of the
uh uh
waste so I'm sure what these guys must
realize that technology
advances and if the technology advances
while you're building one of your
plants do you stop and like they did
over a hand which they're still every
time they build something they have to
tear it down and rebuild something else
because technology has caught up with
them do you guys plan to do the same
type of procedure if you're granted the
permits to operate in this County as a
technology for your containment of your
batteries
progresses what do you do do you change
it to come up to date or you just put it
in there and say well we talk to you in
20
years that's
uh anyway yeah you can book it back to
Oklahoma or
whatever all
right Brianna
Zamora Brianna Zamora that's
okay so I had to change my thing a
little bit because I wanted to address
one of the things that was said um
before I go into my Spiel I wanted to
bring up the comment that was made from
over here about no best fire incidents
in the last five years just a quick
Google search and I found two
independent studies done oh that was
just really quick and best fires have
trended steadily from 2020 just in 2023
there was 15 per the study um I'll post
the link with all the charts on the
Facebook group for
everybody um let's
see so I've lived in scad County my
entire life of 33 years I've been a CED
woly resident for over 15 years I've
worked construction locally in the
laborers union for over a decade mostly
in the oil and gas industry um
particularly focused in OSHA industrial
safety regulations and also on public
projects like this gadg of river bridge
collaps I'm an avid fisherman and
Outdoorsman while simultaneously
respecting and admiring all the wildlife
as well as the environment all of my
friends and neighbors Hunt and Gather
their own food from the earth we all
have Orchards or Gardens cattle chickens
horses and various other plants and
animals that we water from our
wells um I'm wholeheartedly opposed to
this project and just because some of
mine and other union leaders have spoken
in favor of the best project in the past
here um as they will always do to
support their wallets that does not mean
it's the right thing this project will
not significantly impact our union
membership as a whole it will not create
create local subst substantial jobs the
project is temporary and after the
facility is completely unmanned after
completion um the facility itself will
have a significant detrimental impact
Upon Our Community just from basic
day-to-day operations and Lord knows a
flood which can easily happen since
location is in a flood plane result in a
catastrophic failure will impact our
community and ecosystem for life
especially Hansen's Creek which has been
talked about a lot um and the gadget
river which is the only Puget Sound
river system with all five Pacific
salmon species importantly the scad
river has three salmonoid species listed
as threatened under the endangered spe
Species Act Bol trout steel head and the
largest remaining runs of threatened
puic sound shinuk salmon which are the
key prey species for our endangered puic
puit sound
orcas I am a human being before I am my
job title I will always put a human life
my family safety in the community first
before the size of my wallet I urge
everyone involved to do the same thank
you thank
you Jennifer
Washington first I'd like to say thank
you to you mayor and the city council my
name is Jennifer Washington and I'm the
chairman of the uppers scet
tribe Scott Skyler has already spoke um
I concur with with a lot that has been
said here and mainly I just wanted to
come and say that the upper scad tribe
stands with the city of Cesar
woolly
so I got several
calls uh wondering why is the tribe
standing by next to this we're not that
was never said that was not not our
intent we will be drafting a letter and
we do stand with the community I'm born
raised CED wooly we stand with you we're
here we will fight we will do what we
need to do and we are strong we are
strong
Community that's it thank you and have a
wonderful evening thank you
Jennifer Kevin dyra
excuse me my name is Kevin dyra I'd like
to thank you for very uh showing great
decorum and respect in a hostile crowd I
respectfully disagree with your proposal
and council members uh there's such a
thing as yielding my time I have a
question what do we as Citizens do to
stop this Andor what do we as Citizens
do to support you in stopping this
proposal thank you
your very presence here today is very
supportive I'm sorry your very presence
here this evening is very
supportive Connie
Miller Madame mayor and City Council
Members I wanted to First say thank you
so much for being our voice tonight we
have not as Citizens had an opportunity
to ask these questions that you have
asked on our behalf and you did a really
outstanding job there were so many of
the questions I've been concerned about
and of course our community has been
concerned about as well so we greatly
appreciate that I also want to thank you
for allowing us to be here in your study
session during a public forum again it
gives the community a voice and a way
for us to be able to not only understand
what's going on but for you to as well
how passionately we all are concerned
about this task um and I I want to
reiterate just what the previous speaker
had said um I would like to encourage
each of you with your capacity as
Community leaders and leaders here in
Cedro wooly to see if there's a way that
you can communicate with the folks
you've been dealing with at Puget Sound
Energy to see what is happening with the
disparity of information that you've
received in reporting directly from them
about the grid versus what we're hearing
from this uh organization here tonight I
would be as a citizen very interested in
the results of those questions that you
might want to inquire with Puget Sound
Energy and again I would also like to
know if there's anything that you might
recommend that we as Citizens do either
through continuing to work with the city
council or on our own to try to appeal
to FC or whatever organization at the
state level are really making the
decisions that affect our local
community if there's anything that you
might have as a resource for us as you
can see we are highly motivated and very
passionate we would be very willing to
cooperate with you on that behalf thank
you thank
you Daryl
fuzel good
evening my name is Daryl f I'm a retired
CEO of a tech company I'm a resident of
scet County and before I start I'd like
to commend commissioner
Browning where are
you and commissioner weon for their
stand publicly against this project also
this
Council this is very important I have a
recommendation as a CEO I sat here and I
listened to everything that's said
I am EMP my empathy to this company over
here is I know what it is to want to
expand and go somewhere else and do
something I do have a question that you
don't have to answer but how many of
these projects do you have in
Nebraska I heard you say in the
presentation whether I heard it wrong or
not that the county set aside some
property and then I heard commissioner
we and commissioner brownie refute
that I'll get back to that in just a
moment I'm not going to use all of my
three
minutes as a CEO I would say that your
environmental study was very weak I
can't imagine anybody working for me
presenting such a ill
prepared
presentation I can't imagine anybody in
this room saying sign me up just doesn't
it doesn't
wash Riley spoke about earthquakes great
Point nothing was said by you about the
earthquakes but I have something to say
for the fire
departments how much money are you going
to pay in advance to the fire department
you heard that they're
volunteer that you're going to use to
prepare them in equipment not just
education they don't need to sit through
an hour's worth of seminar they're going
to need money for equipment to fight
whatever we don't know is
coming that wasn't mentioned here
tonight so you wouldn't get my vote is
what I'm
saying now everybody in this room
remembers the national political move
that was made
let's just pass this so that we can see
what's in
it not in CED willly not in scet
County we believe what Reagan said
trust but
verify I have two recommendations for
everybody in this room but before I give
that under the power of my
constitutional right and Free Speech I'm
going to ask a show of hands of
everybody that's opposed to this project
in scet
County I only did that for you people
over
here here's my
recommendation as County residents we
don't know anybody in Olympia that we
can get on the
phone and say stop
this we're not in favor of it
but get a hold of your Council people
not just tonight tomorrow and all the
way till Friday and all next week and
you've got two Commissioners in this
room they if they don't know who to call
in
Olympia they know that they can call
somebody that they can make your voice
heard in Olympia talk to them they're
here I heard over and over again tonight
the same word over and over again so
here's my recommendation to
you the same word that I heard up here
fight and I believe it this is a is it a
Chris Parks and Jim kins is that right
or is that a
mistake if not that believe it or not
concludes public comment
yes
sure I don't see anybody online thank
you my name is Suzanne roner um I'm
somewhat of an outsider I'm from anac
Cordis but I'm here for you guys um just
to um Echo what Val said earlier about
um tanasa trying to do this in other
places I a quick search online revealed
that both Renton and Covington were
approached for this so perhaps the city
council can give them a call and find
out their strategy for saying no to this
um another thing about the 2,000 200,000
homes for four hours that's the energy
this will provide um and the assumption
is that sket County will will benefit
from this um in a true emergency it
would go to hospitals and other
emergency um areas but remember 2 years
ago pet Sound Energy replaced every
electrical meter in this County with a
two-way system so that they can shut
your energy off without even showing up
at your home so if you if we think we're
going to get some of that energy in a
true emergency I think we're diluted um
and then also the slide on the
decommission of the the uh facility and
quote current land use is preserved
after the life of the project so since
this is G egg NRL land my assumption is
that land will be tractor ready ready to
put seed in it when they're done with
this project I'm hoping that's what they
mean when they say it will be returned
to the pre U present
use um and then I just want to also
mention I was at the uh first meeting
and several people mentioned that they
had no notice a very short notice and
then after the meeting we were told if
we wanted to make public comment that
would be part of the record we had until
I think 9:00 that night to do it and I
thought that was a little bit um short
notice and a little bit
disingenuous and then the last thing
where is that um after the last meeting
I went and talked to one of the um
presenters who's not here tonight but at
that meeting they mentioned that since
this is a major utility project there is
a conditional use in the code for that
and I went and approached that gentleman
he was an older gentleman short in
stature uh he was sitting on the right
hand table as you look at at the uh
Podium up there I can't remember his
name but he I asked him where do I find
that definition and he didn't tell me
but he said that the Planning Commission
suggested it be called or be determined
to be a major utility project so it
could have the conditional use
exemption and so that I didn't that made
me wonder what in the hell's going on um
so I think it's something that I don't
know I tried to figure out how to do
something about it but I didn't know
where to look so that's what I was told
that the Planning Commission said this
should be called a major utility project
so they could use conditional use so for
what it's worth thank you all right
thank you
yes can I have one minute sure thank you
very much um give your name and my name
is Bill Schmidt I'm with the sketa
County Farm Bureau and we're very
concerned about the Farmland but I
didn't hear one thing all night and
that's alternative rate of return we
have a lot of water we have
hydroelectric why can't we make our
hydroelectric a little more efficient
for this amount of money or why can't we
put in another generator for the
hydroelectric I had nobody talk about
Alternatives here really and I think
we're in a beautiful place for hydro
thank you all right thank
[Applause]
you hi I'm me hall Port of Gadget and uh
District three and we heard this
presentation about six weeks ago and all
three Commissioners at the Port of scadu
are not in favor of this and we had a
power meeting yesterday to discuss it
even deeper and uh the position of PSC
is a little wrong for what they
presented to you it depends on which
substation you're talking about there is
a shortage of power in sket County it's
just not in Cedar woolly yet so anyway
but I just wanted to express I really
appreciate Val mullen's presentation
because uh many people don't consider
the CO2 made over there is still CO2 we
put up with over here and all those
railroad cars that go by every day are
going to China and they're making CO2
and that's how these batteries are going
to be made so anyway but just to let you
know uh uh Porter Gadget is not in
support of of this project thank
you here is there anybody
online that wishes to speak I thought I
saw a Garrett Shad is that
correct a guess a GG uh please state
your name
um Germaine corn oh hello
Jermaine hi I'm sorry I couldn't change
my name on there um I just had a
question about or I don't know if anyone
remembers it's basically a statement but
I don't know if anyone
remembers uh quite a few years ago when
a teus bottling plant was trying to come
into
anoris and um it sounds like the same
deal uh they tried Everett they tried
many other town
locally um for just a few jobs um they
were going to put a train track across
the
Estuary it sounds exactly the same and I
would I would encourage anyone to um
start looking into that um we F that
Sandra Spargo was the woman behind
fighting that little old lady and we got
behind her and I remember the these
meetings and we organized and got them
out of here along with former mayor Mike
Anderson who walked in on uh Dean
Maxwell signing something behind closed
doors so I mean I really feel like this
is the same kind
of deal all over
again but that history is there if we
can just look into that and somebody
else mentioned other things that that
happen behind closed doors and like yeah
so anyways I'm just saying this isn't
the first time that we've seen
this thank you and thank you guys so
much for all these questions the
questions were amazing
thank you
jine is there anybody
else okay seeing no hands are
raised that is it that will conclude um
the public comment for the evening um I
want to thank you all for being here
tonight for your honesty for the support
for the love not only the love of the
city but for the love of our community
and um just want to State again that
this is you know this this isn't
anything that uh we had brought forth we
don't really have a say so in the the
council doesn't have a say so in what
any of these uh developers or um utility
uh agencies would like to do but we can
stand with you in writing the letters
and we will we are going to do that that
is Our intention um we're going to put
together a letter and we're going to
submit it just as the tribe is intending
to do so thank you again so much for
being here tonight and have a good
evening safe
evening okay and city council um I am
getting ready to adjourn but just a
reminder we do have a closed session and
it won't take
long are
we all that oh my gosh I don't I think
this would take way too
long sorry
take close yeah hello there I almost got
up and spoke and then I thought
everybody said everything yeah they did
didn't
they yeah they were weren't they
yeah oh thank you thank
you thank you yeah
yeah they did well done well done
yeah I know
[Laughter]
Judy
okay thank
you great
names thank you thank you yeah
absolutely I think it's great that the
community is coming together like
this as well hey I want to ask you I got
your membership of course for screw so
thank you um did you get a book the anti
Communist Manifesto book okay I will
we're doing that as a book club fabulous
and everyone that signed up in 2024 gets
one as a thank you so I'll make sure I
have to order a couple more I'll make
okay have my number I do I do thank you
rile appreciate
it I thought you did a great job not ask
about the whole I think the whole thing
to understand our
in son
ofct weely
okay I'm going to say we are adjourned
but we do have close session so we'll
move to the back
here
e
for
e e