1 00:00:09,540 --> 00:00:13,500 This is a problem in subject to the issue of a delegation meeting. 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:20,200 And then, I'm also going to mention the water, the streambursts. 3 00:00:20,420 --> 00:00:25,140 And then, I look at the evidence that this is not accurate. 4 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,420 This should be the one that is required for final action. 5 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,240 So all this other stuff we've got is a claimer and we need it for the construction 6 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:41,600 claims and everything else. 7 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:42,820 That's all true. 8 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,840 But they can have a plan so they have to have a plan. 9 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,800 Well, the number has to be five. 10 00:00:50,460 --> 00:00:51,100 Five, right? 11 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:52,480 Until it's... 12 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:53,860 I think it really exists. 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:04,720 I'm saying it's part of the agreement, except the fact that there's no body on the front line. 14 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:06,980 No. 15 00:01:08,380 --> 00:01:09,120 What's the 16 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:15,880 point of view? 17 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,040 Billy has been introduced myself. 18 00:01:21,220 --> 00:01:21,860 Absolutely. 19 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:23,160 Let's talk about that. 20 00:01:24,060 --> 00:01:26,440 That's a lot of things though. 21 00:01:30,260 --> 00:01:35,180 The big challenge that we've encountered over the last 10 years is great. 22 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:36,560 Why don't you just pass it around? 23 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:37,920 That's the big challenge. 24 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,500 Amber's got a sign-up sheet. 25 00:01:42,140 --> 00:01:42,560 Is that right? 26 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,340 For anyone who wants to speak tonight. 27 00:01:46,180 --> 00:01:49,020 So, since we didn't have it out there when he came in, 28 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,480 why don't you just pass it around so they don't have to all get up from their chairs? 29 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:41,980 If you want to speak during the public hearing, you need to be on that sign-up sheet. 30 00:02:42,820 --> 00:02:47,860 So, it's a rum that has to be sent, you know, right here, except it's in the 7th inning. 31 00:02:51,260 --> 00:02:56,180 But it just confirms that probably was the right set for a brighter, or that right one. 32 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:58,940 So, it's in the 7th page over there. 33 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,540 It's right in the 8th page over there. 34 00:03:04,690 --> 00:03:05,730 I don't know. 35 00:03:09,930 --> 00:03:12,710 Oh, no, I was going to say it should be a fact. 36 00:03:42,810 --> 00:03:49,870 I'm just going to have to get an engineer to sign off until it's going to feel good about it again, 37 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:53,540 and it could take one. 38 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,120 But it's all a good room, so it's a speed thing. 39 00:04:05,230 --> 00:04:07,550 It's just going to take a little 40 00:04:11,900 --> 00:04:12,680 break tonight. 41 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:20,060 It's going to take a few days. 42 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,920 Oh yeah, they're going to swarm with the mumps of the 43 00:04:58,830 --> 00:04:59,690 ants again. 44 00:05:04,020 --> 00:05:06,580 Good to 45 00:05:14,650 --> 00:05:29,110 see 46 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:42,980 you. 47 00:05:59,740 --> 00:06:02,680 Well, I will, but it's truly in here, you see. 48 00:06:13,670 --> 00:06:17,210 Yeah, this is something I said we need to make sure it's in the mail. 49 00:06:19,990 --> 00:06:21,590 Truth is strung in the kitchen. 50 00:06:44,030 --> 00:06:48,610 I'm going to call to order the Planning and Zoning Commission a special called meeting 51 00:06:48,610 --> 00:06:55,470 for the town of Shady Shores, and we've got a quorum here and just so that everyone 52 00:06:55,470 --> 00:07:00,730 who's listening online can recognize a voice, I'm going to ask we start over here to my 53 00:07:00,730 --> 00:07:05,350 right with Tanya and state your name loud enough that everybody, make sure you turn on 54 00:07:05,350 --> 00:07:06,450 your mic when you do it. 55 00:07:07,810 --> 00:07:08,910 I'm Tanya Cruz. 56 00:07:10,350 --> 00:07:11,250 Nathan Abado. 57 00:07:11,790 --> 00:07:13,390 I'm Alan Lee, Chairman. 58 00:07:14,270 --> 00:07:15,230 Paul Brown. 59 00:07:16,210 --> 00:07:16,910 William Roussell. 60 00:07:17,430 --> 00:07:18,150 Thank you. 61 00:07:18,150 --> 00:07:25,730 so we do have a quorum. We've got a pretty simple agenda tonight. We've got a public hearing on 62 00:07:27,310 --> 00:07:33,650 requests for a major subdivision preliminary plaque and then to take action on that. 63 00:07:35,050 --> 00:07:42,320 So bear with me some of this is kind of tedious and legally but we'll get started with it. 64 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:49,800 We're going to conduct a public hearing relative to a request for a major subdivision preliminary 65 00:07:49,800 --> 00:08:03,120 plat of the property known as A0330A, West Durham, TR135, 1.93 acres, Old Denton County 66 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:18,620 Appraisal District TR-22C-A-033A-W-West Durham TR-136-2.003 acres, all dental appraisal 67 00:08:18,620 --> 00:08:33,540 District TR21A, A0330A, West Durham, TR137, 4.759 acres, Old Denton County 68 00:08:33,540 --> 00:08:45,160 Appraisal District AB 300, TR21G, Arrelson Edition Lot 2R1, Arrelson Edition Lot 2R2, 69 00:08:45,160 --> 00:09:00,920 Arrelson Edition Lot 3R, Arrelson Edition Lot 1, A0330A West Durham TR-141, 10.612 acres, 70 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:14,320 all dental central appraisal district to our 19a 21c 21d 21f 22c the total 71 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:26,730 acreage is 31.805 acres thank you okay first item is a staff report on this 72 00:09:26,730 --> 00:09:32,990 and I'm going to ask our engineers to give their report first and I have a couple of questions 73 00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:33,530 for you. 74 00:09:33,830 --> 00:09:34,190 Is that okay? 75 00:09:36,150 --> 00:09:40,530 If y'all will come on up to the microphone it would or use your microphone whichever. 76 00:09:48,830 --> 00:09:52,210 Governor, the Commission, James George, residents. 77 00:09:53,130 --> 00:10:02,390 This preliminary plat has been submitted and it encompasses 47 relots, three of which 78 00:10:02,390 --> 00:10:06,470 or common space areas so that total lots are going to be 41. 79 00:10:08,330 --> 00:10:10,970 Complies with the thing on just a second. 80 00:10:11,510 --> 00:10:12,550 We're having trouble hearing. 81 00:10:15,750 --> 00:10:18,550 I'm going to have to speak louder or get closer to the microphone. 82 00:10:19,010 --> 00:10:19,470 Thank you. 83 00:10:19,670 --> 00:10:24,090 Okay, so 47 total lots through which are common space areas. 84 00:10:25,390 --> 00:10:29,970 And it means all the current zoning requirements for lot size, 85 00:10:29,970 --> 00:10:32,450 a lot of acreage, dimensions, 86 00:10:34,750 --> 00:10:40,870 waterway dedication, the proposed street for the subdivision 87 00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:47,870 is basically a U-shaped loop that can mix to West Shady Shores, plain, just east of 88 00:10:47,870 --> 00:10:58,030 the HBA entrance, and it involves interior drainage, water, 89 00:11:00,270 --> 00:11:02,270 and floodplain reclamation 90 00:11:02,270 --> 00:11:06,450 for a portion of the area that's encompassed by the cell division. 91 00:11:08,580 --> 00:11:10,440 The proposed development is 92 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:17,300 planning on bringing some of the lots that would be currently in the floodplain, 93 00:11:17,540 --> 00:11:18,940 raising them out of the floodplain, 94 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:25,040 but also excavating in other areas to mitigate the 95 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,760 fill in those areas where they're raising the lots to be out of the floodplain. 96 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:37,920 And currently West Shady Shores is also under a preliminary reconstruction design, and 97 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:44,720 that's at 30% and this individual likely take place before that project occurs. 98 00:11:45,020 --> 00:11:51,900 And so we'll be coordinating with the developer and the designer for West Shady Shores to make 99 00:11:51,900 --> 00:11:57,240 sure any drainage or other improvements are mentioned together. 100 00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:06,290 I guess that's about it. 101 00:12:06,530 --> 00:12:09,110 That's kind of the basic nuts and bolts of it. 102 00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:15,930 I would refer to the developer if he had something additional to add as far as the- 103 00:12:15,930 --> 00:12:17,090 We'll get to him in a minute. 104 00:12:17,850 --> 00:12:18,130 Okay. 105 00:12:19,010 --> 00:12:21,090 Amber, do you need anything to add to that right now? 106 00:12:22,390 --> 00:12:22,670 Okay. 107 00:12:23,470 --> 00:12:28,250 I'm just like to clarify that this is for a preliminary plat. 108 00:12:29,170 --> 00:12:33,950 David, could you explain the difference between a preliminary 109 00:12:33,950 --> 00:12:36,550 plat and what comes next? 110 00:12:37,570 --> 00:12:42,710 Yes, the team's subdivision ordinance is based on 111 00:12:43,250 --> 00:12:46,130 development styles, specifically a number of lots. 112 00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:50,290 If you're proposing a number of subdivision that has a number of 113 00:12:50,290 --> 00:12:54,330 lots that are for or for, and the town engineer determines that 114 00:12:54,330 --> 00:13:00,050 But it's a minor plat that doesn't require any type of substantial public improvements 115 00:13:00,050 --> 00:13:05,550 to support the subdivision, then a preliminary plat is not needed. 116 00:13:06,210 --> 00:13:11,890 However, if the subdivision is over 5 lots and there is substantial public improvements 117 00:13:11,890 --> 00:13:16,550 required to support the subdivision, then you require the developer to submit what's 118 00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:18,010 called a preliminary plat. 119 00:13:18,010 --> 00:13:25,790 The preliminary plan is not filed with the county, it doesn't dedicate any readily, it doesn't 120 00:13:25,790 --> 00:13:33,410 create any labs, it's simply a planning document to ensure that the basic subdivision layouts 121 00:13:33,410 --> 00:13:41,010 meet the town's standards with respect to lot size, street size, circulation requirements, 122 00:13:42,290 --> 00:13:48,650 Maternity needs, drainage needs, those type of things, that is what's requested from 123 00:13:48,650 --> 00:13:51,170 the developer as part of the preliminary plan. 124 00:13:52,770 --> 00:13:58,870 As well as any future requirements that are needed to ultimately develop a full set 125 00:13:58,870 --> 00:14:04,510 of construction plans to build the subdivision and to prepare a final plan for dedication 126 00:14:04,510 --> 00:14:10,410 to the town with regards to easements right away in utilities. 127 00:14:11,190 --> 00:14:19,470 So a part of this preliminary plan or denial of the plan is simply just checking to make 128 00:14:19,470 --> 00:14:25,790 sure that the planning phase meets the town's requirements to proceed with further development 129 00:14:26,050 --> 00:14:27,130 of the subdivision. 130 00:14:27,130 --> 00:14:32,810 So it does not include a drainage plan, is that correct? 131 00:14:33,890 --> 00:14:41,710 It includes conceptual utility improvements, such as generic layouts of water, drainage. 132 00:14:42,190 --> 00:14:44,030 No, no final drainage plan. 133 00:14:44,390 --> 00:14:55,430 No, we do require a hydrologic study to where they present the methodology for determining the existing and proposed runoff. 134 00:14:56,690 --> 00:14:59,910 All in the conceptual plans that are included as part of the deployment. 135 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:10,780 I plan the developer did include drainage plans, which consists of surface collection for streets. Underground 136 00:15:10,780 --> 00:15:18,800 conduit to convey those collections to the ultimate discharge point, which in this case are going 137 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:26,520 to be detention ponds, because the ordinance requires the developer not to either a, 138 00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:29,920 increase 139 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,280 increasing the one-off, then they do a downstream drainage study to determine the downstream 140 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:41,760 capacity and see outline any proposed and permits needed to make sure the downstream facilities 141 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,340 have the capacity to handle the additional one-off. 142 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:50,580 In this case, the developer has decided to use detention to meet the subdivisions drainage 143 00:15:50,580 --> 00:15:58,960 ordinance and as part of that, they have prepared a detention pond layout in addition to grading 144 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:06,200 plans that show the overall capacity of the ponds that would be required based on the 145 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:12,260 hydrologic studies that outline the increase in runoff from proposed to existing. 146 00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:22,680 So to answer that question, they do include drainage design documents as part of the preliminary 147 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:31,400 It's a supplemental document, so they submitted preliminary drainage, preliminary grading and the hydrologic report. 148 00:16:31,980 --> 00:16:33,660 It's still a planning document. 149 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:35,960 Yes, absolutely. 150 00:16:37,820 --> 00:16:46,680 But that way we can identify the areas that are going to be needed for their proposed plan to meet the drainage ordinance to make sure there's 151 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:53,720 and space dedicated to meet those requirements and then that's the basis for the final design 152 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,940 to meet the actual ordinance itself. 153 00:16:59,000 --> 00:16:59,880 Okay, thank you. 154 00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:08,640 So at this time we're going to open the public hearing and the first to speak on this will be the applicant. 155 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:14,680 If you would come up to the podium and tell us your name and give us your presentation. 156 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:21,700 Absolutely. If I may, I would like to provide some exhibits, some documents to you all so that you can have them in front of you. 157 00:17:22,060 --> 00:17:24,640 Sure. Okay. So there's some files. 158 00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:26,240 I'm going to describe them eventually. 159 00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:31,460 Alrighty. 160 00:17:34,620 --> 00:17:35,580 So, no culture. 161 00:17:41,430 --> 00:17:41,770 Thank you. 162 00:17:42,350 --> 00:17:42,470 Better? 163 00:17:44,090 --> 00:17:46,090 Like, let me try not to need too much. 164 00:17:46,090 --> 00:17:49,270 I actually have surgery this a couple weeks ago, so I'm trying to avoid that. 165 00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:52,370 I won't be able to hold it. 166 00:17:53,810 --> 00:17:56,450 Let's see if I can move it a little bit. 167 00:17:56,670 --> 00:17:57,630 There we go. 168 00:17:57,670 --> 00:17:58,310 There we go. 169 00:17:58,890 --> 00:17:59,430 As well. 170 00:18:02,140 --> 00:18:02,760 How's that? 171 00:18:03,180 --> 00:18:03,780 There are. 172 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:04,020 All right. 173 00:18:05,620 --> 00:18:06,080 Okay. 174 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:06,860 Thank you very much. 175 00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:08,240 My name is George Nunez. 176 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:15,540 I am the applicant for this preliminary plaque and I thank you all the commissioners for 177 00:18:15,540 --> 00:18:17,820 being here and for allowing me the opportunity to present this. 178 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:20,060 So with that, I'll begin. 179 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:29,520 First of all, I kind of wanted to just, I think, the engineer, David did a great job of explaining the preliminary plan, and just kind of wanted to establish that very quickly. 180 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:38,840 First of all, we're really trying to just get an overall subdivision layout, streets, utility, corridors, and drainage concepts, which I think we've provided some of that. 181 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,020 The preliminary plan begins, and it's not complete. 182 00:18:43,020 --> 00:18:47,800 We, the detailed engineering process on the right over there, I show that we're just in 183 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,160 the very starts of things, so we still have to do some additional engineering and continue 184 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:58,580 some review processes as well as agency coordination with some of the utilities, then construction 185 00:18:58,580 --> 00:19:00,060 plans before we get to final plat. 186 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,940 So there's still some work to do and I just wanted to kind of raise that point. 187 00:19:03,540 --> 00:19:08,880 Today, what I'm hoping to accomplish is that we have, first of all, I want to mention that 188 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,560 We want to respond to every engineering comment, there's a comment in the last letter that 189 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,280 we received that stated a little bit differently, so we wanted to kind of address that. 190 00:19:17,900 --> 00:19:23,600 Second, the sub-responses explain why certain requested items are typically addressed during 191 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,880 the final plan or construction plan, so I'd like to kind of express that and show that as 192 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:29,060 well. 193 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:37,180 And then lastly, there's some conflicting direction we've received in terms of sanitary sewage. 194 00:19:37,180 --> 00:19:42,460 We respectfully request coordination so the preliminary platt could be at first evaluated 195 00:19:42,460 --> 00:19:47,800 and then we can work through those discrepancies and you know make sure that we're consistent. 196 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:54,360 So the preliminary platt serves as a foundation for detailed engineering technical review and 197 00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:59,440 agency coordination that occurs before final platt approval and a construction. 198 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:00,500 So we still have a ways to go. 199 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:05,400 I'm just looking for preliminary platt at this point, preliminary platt approval at this 200 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:05,600 point. 201 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:13,420 Okay, just to give a quick glance, as the engineer mentioned, 32 acres, approximately 44 202 00:20:13,420 --> 00:20:17,160 home sides, half acre lots, single family residents. 203 00:20:17,620 --> 00:20:20,260 We hope to complete the plenary plaque today. 204 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:27,060 Current status, we completed a plenary plaque design, initial engineering, preliminary drainage 205 00:20:27,060 --> 00:20:32,760 analysis, which was discussed earlier, utility coordination initiated, and town staff review 206 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,500 have had a great time meeting several of you all and working with you. Thank you for that. 207 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:42,100 The current phase is in progress. We just need to do some final engineering review and agency coordination. 208 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:49,360 Just to give you a little bit of location in our beautiful Sadie Shores town. We all know where it's at. 209 00:20:49,580 --> 00:20:55,900 The major cross-street is, of course, Sadie Shores Road, West Sadie Shores Road, right beside the school. 210 00:20:58,350 --> 00:21:03,230 Here's an overlay of the property with, as Andrew mentioned, a U-shaped type of approach, 211 00:21:03,770 --> 00:21:08,310 and so just a really quick conceptual layout of that of the plan. 212 00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:12,150 And this is where I'd like to actually get into the nuts and bolts. 213 00:21:12,970 --> 00:21:17,730 So today's request, first of all, I do want to appreciate the work with the town staff 214 00:21:17,730 --> 00:21:18,510 and the consultants. 215 00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:25,370 We have made a good faith effort to address every review comment. 216 00:21:25,370 --> 00:21:33,030 And if I made it, let me just mention real quick, because in the latest letter that we received, there was a statement. 217 00:21:34,550 --> 00:21:35,550 So, let's see. 218 00:21:36,290 --> 00:21:43,310 So, one point that was being in the engineering in London, it states that almost all of the comments from the previous preview were not addressed. 219 00:21:44,270 --> 00:21:46,650 Respectfully, we disagreed with that characterization. 220 00:21:47,610 --> 00:21:52,930 We prepared a written response to every comment and provided it to the city, to the town on August 7. 221 00:21:52,930 --> 00:21:57,030 I have provided a hard copy if you see the document there. 222 00:21:57,450 --> 00:22:02,310 There were 16 points and we replied to every each point one by one of the points. 223 00:22:02,970 --> 00:22:05,530 11 of the 16 points we believe we've answered. 224 00:22:06,350 --> 00:22:11,370 The other five either we discussed as we're actively working on it 225 00:22:11,370 --> 00:22:16,210 or that we will be working with the engineers and working with the City 226 00:22:16,210 --> 00:22:18,430 to finalize those as part of the final plat. 227 00:22:18,430 --> 00:22:24,600 The next point, we respectfully ask that the Commission distinguish between preliminary 228 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,740 plat requirements and items appropriately completed during final plat as David had 229 00:22:29,740 --> 00:22:32,820 the engineer had mentioned and the construction plan review. 230 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,060 We're written information from reviewing agency conflicts. 231 00:22:37,060 --> 00:22:43,140 We ask that this agency, that those agencies reconcile that and that not be considered a deficiency 232 00:22:43,140 --> 00:22:44,100 in our application. 233 00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:49,740 And of course, we remain committed to working collaboratively with the town, with the 234 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:54,220 city towards a quality development for shady shores. Our objective today is simply to 235 00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:59,620 obtain approval, not simply to obtain approval, but to work collaboratively with the town 236 00:22:59,620 --> 00:23:04,580 to ensure that the final development is fully engineered, compliant, and a quality addition 237 00:23:04,580 --> 00:23:06,600 to the shady shores community. 238 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,580 So, as as of now, current status, we've completed 239 00:23:12,580 --> 00:23:16,980 red response to every engineering comment, as I mentioned earlier, utility will serve letters 240 00:23:16,980 --> 00:23:18,720 which I will discuss a little bit later on, 241 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,200 because there's some key points there. 242 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,120 Updated engineering materials, which we provided 243 00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:26,920 to the city on, excuse me, to the town on August 7. 244 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,780 In progress, we have floodplain, female coordination, 245 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,260 traffic analysis, detailed draining engineering, 246 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,400 which is finalizing the drainage plan, 247 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,380 environmental and utility coordination. 248 00:23:39,140 --> 00:23:42,020 Some outstanding discussions, which is a 249 00:23:42,020 --> 00:23:44,440 appropriate phase for several engineering requirements, 250 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,940 as well as reconciliation of some of the conflicting sanitary, 251 00:23:49,140 --> 00:23:52,320 pseudo-guidances from LCMUA. 252 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,880 And again, I just want to reiterate that this is 253 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,240 an initial preliminary plat. What we're hoping to accomplish today, 254 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,680 we have a big block there of things that we need to do to finish, 255 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,460 engineering review, agency coordination and construction plans, 256 00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:09,680 and then move towards the final plat, which is the final approval with all, 257 00:24:10,060 --> 00:24:13,720 where everything should be, all the T's crossed, and the I's dotted. 258 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,540 and then of course moving towards development. 259 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:22,880 So before I make my, take any questions if this is a proper type to receive questions. 260 00:24:23,620 --> 00:24:28,120 I'd like to make a closing statement as though we appreciate the time and effort 261 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:33,880 invested by the time staff, the consulting engineers, and I'm buzzing that craze in my apologies. 262 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,080 And of course, in the commission, our commissioners were not asking you to wave any 263 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,820 engineering requirements, we're not asking for any variance, we're not asking to avoid 264 00:24:44,820 --> 00:24:49,800 completing any work, we're simply asking that this preliminary plan be evaluated based 265 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,680 on the requirements applicable to a preliminary plan. 266 00:24:53,220 --> 00:24:58,080 We have responded to every engineering comment and good faith, and with our disagreements, 267 00:24:58,540 --> 00:25:02,720 they concern timing and interpretation, not our willingness to comply. 268 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,880 If additional and we expect additional engineering will be required, before final planning, 269 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,680 We're fully expect to complete it. 270 00:25:10,020 --> 00:25:16,780 We simply ask that today's discussion reflect the purpose of the preliminary plot and that the record has been as a record has been developed. 271 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,900 And with that, I'll take questions if it's appropriate or next steps. 272 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,280 We'll do questions at a later time. 273 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:24,540 Okay. 274 00:25:24,860 --> 00:25:27,140 Not in the public hearing. 275 00:25:30,340 --> 00:25:31,520 If you're done, I'm done. 276 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,440 We'll move on to the next part. 277 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:41,780 at this time if someone would like to speak in favor of this development. 278 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:45,360 Oh, I've got 279 00:25:46,660 --> 00:25:48,520 my sign-up sheet here. 280 00:26:02,020 --> 00:26:07,180 Mr. Lynette, this doesn't say who's in favor and who's not. 281 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:13,180 So I'm just going to call on if you want to come on up and state your name and 282 00:26:13,180 --> 00:26:16,120 your address and tell us your thoughts. You've got three minutes. 283 00:26:16,860 --> 00:26:19,000 Mike, when at 140 Hidden Valley Airport, 284 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,020 George is my neighboring friend and so is Odie and Gary Bills. 285 00:26:25,540 --> 00:26:31,440 I guess I'm unique in that I boarded both 286 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,300 at Kissinger Ranch and this new development. 287 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,300 And so there are a couple of questions I have on the plans that we were given. 288 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:47,180 The specifics of the deed at access between Gary Bills, Odie Harrelson property and Lynette 289 00:26:47,180 --> 00:26:47,640 property. 290 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:51,320 It's kind of confusing to us, that little note there. 291 00:26:52,860 --> 00:26:58,900 And the Atkison Ranch development, Don Plunk, did that one. 292 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,520 The engineers was Richard. 293 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,420 We gave you guys the plan we paid for about the water and the 90 degree turn. 294 00:27:07,420 --> 00:27:13,080 that 90-degree turn still floods and it floods into you and your neighbor's yards. 295 00:27:13,660 --> 00:27:20,400 It becomes right through us, it goes down about, goes past our trees and into the bills and voting 296 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:27,380 health and property. We have heard about the Water Detention Pond at Atkinson Ranch. 297 00:27:28,020 --> 00:27:33,640 It's not working correctly from people living there. How will the Water Detention Ponds be handled 298 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,600 and approved in the new development. 299 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,780 You said about the water flow you've addressed that. 300 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,260 When Actus and Ranch was developed, 301 00:27:41,460 --> 00:27:43,720 when that fence was reached many times, 302 00:27:45,060 --> 00:27:46,680 will the new development pay for and replace 303 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,400 the shared fence with new fence? 304 00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:51,500 That was the Actus and Anderson fence that we share, 305 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,840 which as you know, it gets broken all the time by our animals. 306 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,940 What type of fence will the new development be putting in? 307 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,520 A new fence must prevent steers 308 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:01,880 from entering the suburban neighborhood. 309 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:08,200 will the new fence insulation affect the one that steers. And for your information and 310 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,660 I remember this, but there was an eight-foot solid wall that was supposed to be built 311 00:28:12,660 --> 00:28:19,140 between the Atkis Ranch and our HVA property was never built. The new development will 312 00:28:19,140 --> 00:28:26,680 affect traffic on shady shores and you're going to study on that. And then other roads and 313 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,660 Atkis and Ranch, we understand we're not built to city specifications, they will provide 314 00:28:30,660 --> 00:28:33,120 to provide waivers after the roads were installed. 315 00:28:35,020 --> 00:28:37,140 And I want to make sure that the roads meet the current 316 00:28:37,140 --> 00:28:40,600 specifications so that instead of providing waivers after 317 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:40,940 the fact. 318 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,660 So and then again, the water flow on shady shores of the 319 00:28:47,660 --> 00:28:48,180 ready floods. 320 00:28:48,540 --> 00:28:49,480 So we need to take care of that. 321 00:28:49,940 --> 00:28:50,380 That's it. 322 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:51,580 Hopefully I was under three minutes. 323 00:28:51,740 --> 00:28:52,180 Thank you. 324 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,040 Mr. Craig Thomas. 325 00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:10,830 So Craig Thomas, I live at 139 Hidden Valley Air Park, 326 00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:18,390 which is just north. From a drainage perspective, I think there's two ways to locate this. 327 00:29:19,010 --> 00:29:28,630 One is just the outline of the area being cladded. At which point you deal with runoff and retention of that runoff, 328 00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:36,130 and you can do calculations and reach an answer. The problem that I would ask you to address 329 00:29:36,130 --> 00:29:40,290 is that's not what this property does. 330 00:29:41,170 --> 00:29:47,750 Today, the choke point for water is in the southeast corner of this property, 331 00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:50,390 where it flows under the road and downstream. 332 00:29:51,410 --> 00:29:59,390 That choke point does not have sufficiently sufficient capacity for even a medium level of rain. 333 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:09,540 Consequently, the water from most of Hidden Valley Airport and the pond to our west in the 334 00:30:09,540 --> 00:30:15,660 development adjacent, which whose name I can't remember at the moment, all that water flows 335 00:30:15,660 --> 00:30:20,440 through the pond at the front of Hidden Valley, through the woods that were in the diagram, 336 00:30:21,460 --> 00:30:29,860 expands in the floodplain that is currently there and waits for the capacity to be available 337 00:30:29,860 --> 00:30:38,240 to flow under the road. It spreads out, there's a picture in there showing the extent of flooding 338 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:45,600 on this land. If we fill that in, it just moves the choke point. I understand that we're going 339 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:53,060 to do work on Shady Shores Road. I don't know that we are increasing the capacity of the downstream 340 00:30:53,060 --> 00:30:59,420 stream and putting a lot more water through there. So this area on the southern side of 341 00:30:59,420 --> 00:31:04,480 the proposed development takes the water from approximately 250 acres depending on how 342 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:13,240 the calculation. It's fast moving, it slows down in this area and spreads out. I'd ask 343 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:20,000 for three things. Number one, we need to consider the total flow of water both on the land and 344 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:29,880 larger. Number two, raising the area on the western side, there is a deep ditch 345 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,600 there. It's shown in the plattus relatively sheer wall. It's going to road 346 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:40,340 very quickly without some sort of wall or retention structure in that space. 347 00:31:41,540 --> 00:31:47,860 And then as someone living on the north side, I would like assurances that no 348 00:31:47,860 --> 00:31:52,560 So the land will be graded such that no water flows to the north. 349 00:31:53,260 --> 00:32:03,000 It needs to flow from the north side down to the street and into the area and retention 350 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,520 ponds to be built as part of this development. 351 00:32:06,460 --> 00:32:07,340 Thank you. 352 00:32:07,780 --> 00:32:09,140 Thank you very much. 353 00:32:12,850 --> 00:32:13,690 Gary Bills. 354 00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:14,470 My 355 00:32:19,140 --> 00:32:19,940 name is Gary Bills. 356 00:32:19,940 --> 00:32:24,400 I actually live in the property on the west side of the property we'll be looking at. 357 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:32,640 The flow of water through there has changed substantially over the last 20 years that 358 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,960 I've lived out there, actually 26 now. 359 00:32:36,820 --> 00:32:48,060 Number of years ago, when the Hind Valley purchased some land from the people north of us, they 360 00:32:48,060 --> 00:32:52,780 They actually just filled in two detention ponds that rule those properties, and then they 361 00:32:52,780 --> 00:32:56,140 dug a trench down along the western border of our property. 362 00:32:57,180 --> 00:33:01,980 And that's when the erosion started in the south part toward the heart. 363 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,960 And I just want to point that out, it's a whole old problem. 364 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:12,940 And it started many years ago and was never properly addressed at that point. 365 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:22,100 So at that particular time when we started having rains during the rainy part of the year and all of a sudden there was all this water. 366 00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:26,640 Who is this coming from? Because there are a number of years and never had any water flowing like that. 367 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:34,360 And it was because they dug a big trench all the way from the north side where Kevin's property used to be. 368 00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:38,800 Down through there kind of ran along the side of our border and then took it. 369 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,640 I thought I understood to take it to the road. 370 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,800 No, they stopped about 200 feet or 300 feet from there 371 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,700 and just let it flow in that little dry creek bed 372 00:33:49,700 --> 00:33:50,420 that was up there. 373 00:33:51,020 --> 00:33:54,440 That creek bed used to be you went down like that 374 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,480 just to go across it with your tractor if you wanted to mo. 375 00:33:56,980 --> 00:33:58,820 Now it's about three and a half to four foot deep 376 00:33:58,820 --> 00:34:00,000 and four foot wide. 377 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:03,720 So it's an ongoing problem that started a minute and a year 378 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,100 ago when the flow was not addressed accordingly 379 00:34:07,100 --> 00:34:14,400 should have been. So we can do what we can do to try to eliminate that, but as 380 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:19,180 the gentleman said just a moment ago it comes down and flows into that little 381 00:34:19,180 --> 00:34:24,500 creek it comes to the up close to the road and it makes a 90 degree turn. Right 382 00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:28,620 there goes the adding comes into those big culverts in the there those culverts 383 00:34:28,620 --> 00:34:34,120 need to be addressed through rusting out. George has been washed away from them 384 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:41,580 We've had to pull stumps out of the inside of them where it's flowed down from from wherever into that area 385 00:34:41,580 --> 00:34:47,740 So I would strongly recommend that that be looked at as well. Well, it's not part of this particular 386 00:34:48,340 --> 00:34:55,320 Development, but something that's ongoing that we need to go back and look at if there's a better way to handle what was handy back then 387 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,740 Can you tell me again exactly where your residence is today? 388 00:34:59,740 --> 00:35:04,680 My residence sets on the, if we had the screen, I could walk up there and point it to you. 389 00:35:05,620 --> 00:35:09,340 There's three families living there. We live on the west side. 390 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,380 So do you live on this land that is going to be going on? 391 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,460 We live on that land, okay, got it. 392 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,020 We live on the land. We've been there since 2000. 393 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:22,460 Yeah, we moved there in 2000, 394 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,120 so that's a life. 395 00:35:26,180 --> 00:35:31,600 Thank you. And I have a letter from a citizen that could not be here tonight. 396 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:37,260 they've asked that I read this, just please allow this to serve as my formal 397 00:35:37,260 --> 00:35:42,580 notice of my unequivocable dispute and rejection of the proposed development 398 00:35:42,580 --> 00:35:47,340 referred as Harrelson edition. The current plan and engineering of the proposed 399 00:35:47,340 --> 00:35:53,200 water runoff does severely and detrimentally impact effect and especially 400 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:59,780 negatively caused damages from stormwater runoff as well as other causing 401 00:35:59,780 --> 00:36:05,260 potential damages from this current defective engineering plan. I hear by 402 00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:10,480 request that the city's own in committee as well as all other council members 403 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:16,520 unanimously vote to reject and deny this current development proposal sign 404 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,520 Gerald Marshall 430 Fritz Lane, Shady Shores, Texas. 405 00:36:22,750 --> 00:36:24,590 Is there anyone else that would 406 00:36:24,590 --> 00:36:27,970 like to speak before I close that part of the public hearing? 407 00:36:31,810 --> 00:36:32,110 Okay. 408 00:36:37,060 --> 00:36:37,300 Mr. 409 00:36:37,980 --> 00:36:45,000 There's an opportunity here to rebut anything that was spoken in the public hearing if you'd like. 410 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:52,240 Absolutely. So one of the first things that our engineer has looked at is the flood. 411 00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:57,200 And that was the first concern that they addressed and looked at very, very carefully. 412 00:36:57,780 --> 00:37:05,360 We are completely aligned and open to work with the city, especially with the new development that's going on there. 413 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:10,080 We're proposing an increase in the culvert size because agreed that that 414 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,500 culvert is just way too small and so we're open to make some engineering changes 415 00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:18,620 and work with the city to to get that corrected. We have some options that we 416 00:37:18,620 --> 00:37:23,820 have discussed. Again, this is just a preliminary request. Those details can be 417 00:37:23,820 --> 00:37:30,580 worked out. Studies still need to be made in terms of FEMA and we're going to be 418 00:37:30,580 --> 00:37:35,340 working through that, making sure that everything, all the change we make, all 419 00:37:35,340 --> 00:37:52,900 solves those problems in terms of what we can solve in terms of the air that is consistent with our location, of course, as Gary mentioned, there might be some other things, but in terms of what, you know, the FEMA calculations and the things that are being done that are consistent with what we're doing, we're committed to get those resolved to make sure that they're engineered property. 420 00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:54,780 Thank you. 421 00:37:57,210 --> 00:38:04,630 I'm going to close the public hearing and we're going to next item on the agenda is take 422 00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:11,230 action regarding the public hearing and the request for a major subdivision at the 423 00:38:11,530 --> 00:38:13,150 description that I gave earlier. 424 00:38:16,570 --> 00:38:22,810 With that, let me just make a couple of comments on my own and we're going to have some discussion. 425 00:38:23,570 --> 00:38:28,730 I think all of us know that drainage is the biggest problem in our town. 426 00:38:29,350 --> 00:38:33,790 We've been dealing with it for years and we will continue to deal with it for years 427 00:38:33,790 --> 00:38:41,450 because the place is flat so it's not that nobody knows that drainage is an issue. 428 00:38:43,290 --> 00:38:50,610 We have a duty what we're going to do tonight is we're going to make a recommendation to the 429 00:38:50,610 --> 00:38:57,950 council. We don't approve anything on a major development. We make a recommendation for 430 00:38:57,950 --> 00:39:07,050 or against. And in speaking with our attorney prior to this, she made it real clear if whatever 431 00:39:07,050 --> 00:39:14,210 we do, we have to have real reasons for whether we're approving it or recommending that they 432 00:39:14,210 --> 00:39:23,550 don't approve it. So with that let me just let's open it up for discussion. Who's got something 433 00:39:23,550 --> 00:39:24,290 to say first? 434 00:39:31,060 --> 00:39:36,320 There seems to be a disagreement between the applicant and our engineering staff 435 00:39:36,940 --> 00:39:43,960 about the response to the initial comments because according to the August 13th letter from our 436 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:50,940 engineering firm. As you mentioned, sir, it is stated that almost none of the 437 00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:55,240 comments were addressed, and you disagreed with that statement. So I'd like some 438 00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:57,500 clarification on what we're dealing with here. 439 00:40:14,100 --> 00:40:21,760 Does one work? Okay. So, in turn, there's two components to the plans that were 440 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:28,720 submitted. One is the preliminary plat sheets, and then there's the preliminary 441 00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:43,780 engineering plans, which comprises preliminary drainage and utility layouts, things like that as far as the preliminary engineering sheets, the applicant is correct that most of those comments were addressed. 442 00:40:44,340 --> 00:40:52,960 However, the preliminary plat, the comments that were on the plat itself were almost fully not addressed. 443 00:40:55,060 --> 00:41:01,840 And that plan is, I don't want to speak for the outcome, but it's handled by a different 444 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:02,260 company. 445 00:41:03,220 --> 00:41:09,100 It's handled by a server where the engineering plans were drafted by their engineer. 446 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,240 So I don't know if that has something to do with why they were addressed on something 447 00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:13,720 out the other. 448 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,980 And then we're just given the applicants response. 449 00:41:17,980 --> 00:41:23,640 And it's kind of our attention that we did not see those responses prior to this meeting. 450 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:29,720 And in looking back through the submittal, they were embedded in the email that we received. 451 00:41:30,300 --> 00:41:32,780 But we didn't realize that they were embedded in the emails. 452 00:41:32,780 --> 00:41:35,280 So that was just kind of a miscommunication on our part. 453 00:41:35,900 --> 00:41:40,540 And upon reviewing them, some of the comments are ongoing. 454 00:41:40,780 --> 00:41:46,220 For example, they've requested, you know, we'll serve letters from Atmos, but they haven't received them yet. 455 00:41:46,220 --> 00:42:07,800 So some of these things are just works in progress that they haven't completed yet, but they will need to complete as part of the conditional approval of this preliminary plat, which I believe David will get to, at some point on what these conditions are. 456 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:16,080 one exactly did you receive the response was it just now the town received it on 457 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,060 August 7th and you personally did David and I saw it for the first time 458 00:42:20,060 --> 00:42:22,420 during this meeting okay thank you I 459 00:42:34,030 --> 00:42:37,610 have lots of questions but in general on 460 00:42:37,610 --> 00:42:44,050 the preliminary plot I don't know this this gets into drainage but I need a 461 00:42:44,050 --> 00:42:48,410 little bit more understanding on this drainage what I'm gonna call the west 462 00:42:48,410 --> 00:42:55,390 two through eight lots because there's duplicate lot numbers on here and so it's 463 00:42:55,390 --> 00:43:00,250 the furthest west and the grading it appears in the back of these eight 464 00:43:00,250 --> 00:43:07,230 lots or these seven lots appears it's just topography grading and drainage 465 00:43:07,230 --> 00:43:12,910 through there that would a road out but also it takes up a very large piece of 466 00:43:12,910 --> 00:43:14,690 the plat of these slots? 467 00:43:17,660 --> 00:43:22,780 It goes into even the development area. How can that be counted 468 00:43:22,780 --> 00:43:23,780 as drainage area? 469 00:43:34,770 --> 00:43:39,930 In response to your first question, the proposed grading that you're 470 00:43:39,930 --> 00:43:48,390 seeing on the western edge of those slots is a reclamation of valley storage. 471 00:43:54,450 --> 00:43:55,210 There's 472 00:43:55,210 --> 00:44:01,270 to provide an offset for the fill that's being added to raise the portion to the lots that are 473 00:44:02,090 --> 00:44:06,470 sure to be raised out of the floodplain. So there's not a lot of conveyance going through there. 474 00:44:07,890 --> 00:44:15,990 There may be some erosion closer to the floodway portion but the majority of that is just to hold standing water basically. 475 00:44:17,250 --> 00:44:23,750 So, I mean, if it's to hold standing water, I think the way it's designed here, once you 476 00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:27,890 sell these lots off, you build and so what prevents anybody from going in there, filling 477 00:44:27,890 --> 00:44:36,150 it in, or putting their raised beds in there, anything that kind of blocks more water to 478 00:44:36,150 --> 00:44:38,110 back up their areas. 479 00:44:38,350 --> 00:44:38,770 Yeah, okay. 480 00:44:38,930 --> 00:44:42,510 So, that's the second part of your question, I was just making sure that I address the first 481 00:44:42,510 --> 00:44:42,710 part. 482 00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:43,070 Okay. 483 00:44:43,070 --> 00:44:52,850 So yeah, secondly, it's one of those, I don't want to call it a loophole, but it's kind of a loophole. 484 00:44:52,850 --> 00:44:59,980 So, every municipality has standard lot requirements for... 485 00:45:00,370 --> 00:45:10,590 Specific zoning. And in a lot of cases, easements are dedicated upon those lots that encumber the 486 00:45:10,590 --> 00:45:15,990 lot, such as floodplain easements or drainage easements or things like that. And they don't 487 00:45:16,730 --> 00:45:22,230 change the actual lot size. They don't change the fee simple lot dimensions or anything 488 00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:29,570 like that. So it's technically still part of the lot. Now, if you want to look at developable 489 00:45:29,570 --> 00:45:37,310 area of a lot? Yes, it is reduced, but the zoning standards and the minimum lot size 490 00:45:37,310 --> 00:45:44,550 is really based on a density requirement. So you're saying you're going to develop 491 00:45:44,550 --> 00:45:49,630 a hundred acres of land and you've got minimum half-ig of a lot size. Well, guess what? 492 00:45:49,810 --> 00:45:54,130 You can only fit so many lots on that development, by the time you get all the streets and 493 00:45:54,130 --> 00:45:57,670 all the other stuff put in there, right? So it's really a density-controlled mechanism. 494 00:45:57,670 --> 00:46:05,530 So now, moving on to your specific question, yes, it does impact the development and usable frankly area of that lot. 495 00:46:06,090 --> 00:46:11,570 So those lots are encumbered by easements and other restrictions. 496 00:46:12,070 --> 00:46:19,590 So therefore, it's likely that those lots may not fetch as high of a price or more of a demand as the other ones. 497 00:46:19,710 --> 00:46:24,590 But, technically, to the letter of the law, they still meet the lot requirements. 498 00:46:24,590 --> 00:46:36,550 And so I see what you're saying, I agree with what you're saying, but those story jails that we're talking about, the grading being in, those will be inside a detention. 499 00:46:37,350 --> 00:46:39,550 I mean, I'm sorry, a floodplain easement basically. 500 00:46:40,430 --> 00:46:48,670 So the owner will not be allowed to do any improvements in those areas by definition of a floodplain easement. 501 00:46:48,670 --> 00:46:50,410 You can't build in a floodplain easily. 502 00:46:50,630 --> 00:46:51,430 You can't, you know, what I'm saying? 503 00:46:51,730 --> 00:46:55,730 So there are encompasses and restrictions associated 504 00:46:55,730 --> 00:46:56,270 with that. 505 00:46:56,590 --> 00:46:59,110 But there's no check and balance down the road. 506 00:47:02,790 --> 00:47:06,070 Check and balance, meaning that once they're built sold off 507 00:47:06,070 --> 00:47:11,070 and because it does impact the floodplain and put things 508 00:47:11,070 --> 00:47:11,430 in there. 509 00:47:11,490 --> 00:47:12,210 And again, it may not be. 510 00:47:12,250 --> 00:47:14,530 Oh, yeah, but it's just like in the other lot, though. 511 00:47:14,650 --> 00:47:16,830 I mean, anybody else that lives in a lot that has a portion 512 00:47:16,830 --> 00:47:17,890 of the floodplain, they can. 513 00:47:17,890 --> 00:47:23,730 That's what I'm saying. The floodplain area that's kind of impacting that is what it appears to me. 514 00:47:23,990 --> 00:47:35,010 We have many lots in shady shores and other communities in the lake cities that have floodplain in their life. 515 00:47:35,010 --> 00:47:45,730 Yeah, isn't the ongoing surveillance or whatever is you know if you want to build in that you have to go get a 516 00:47:45,730 --> 00:47:53,530 Permit to build in it and you're not gonna get that permit. Yeah, but nobody's gonna stand all of these people policing 517 00:47:53,530 --> 00:47:59,810 Right, and that's that's kind of my concern because this is kind of a pinch point of where we get a lot of this flooding 518 00:47:59,810 --> 00:48:01,050 I mean, it's the main 519 00:48:01,810 --> 00:48:07,690 floodway but it's also this pinch point of going under the road and backing up 520 00:48:07,690 --> 00:48:14,430 into existing properties that are out there now. Yeah so floodplains have two 521 00:48:14,430 --> 00:48:20,590 components to them. They have what they call a floodway which is basically the 522 00:48:20,590 --> 00:48:25,710 center of the conveying body of water and that's primarily used for 523 00:48:25,710 --> 00:48:28,850 or conveyance, meaning moving the water downstream. 524 00:48:29,410 --> 00:48:31,090 The other portion of the floodplain 525 00:48:31,090 --> 00:48:34,950 that's outside the floodway is usually just for storage. 526 00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:38,070 It's what happens when the water just flows through 527 00:48:38,070 --> 00:48:40,350 and it backs up and, you know, 528 00:48:41,090 --> 00:48:42,490 if the water's flowing through the river, 529 00:48:42,690 --> 00:48:44,070 most of it's going right through the scenery 530 00:48:44,070 --> 00:48:46,190 and there's some of the sides that are kind of stagnant. 531 00:48:46,270 --> 00:48:47,990 Well, a floodplain is similar to that 532 00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:50,350 except it's a lot different shape, you know. 533 00:48:50,450 --> 00:48:52,170 And so I understand what you're saying 534 00:48:52,170 --> 00:48:53,110 about the pinch point. 535 00:48:53,110 --> 00:49:05,490 But as long as the valley storage is not in the dedicated flood way, then it's not part 536 00:49:05,490 --> 00:49:09,850 of the quote-unquote pinch point, what it is part of is providing additional storage 537 00:49:09,850 --> 00:49:13,270 that's been lost by filling in other locations in the flood plain. 538 00:49:13,970 --> 00:49:17,410 Now back to your other question about the main answer, the incandence and stuff. 539 00:49:17,590 --> 00:49:22,010 Yes, it's definitely an incandence to that lot, no doubt about it. 540 00:49:22,010 --> 00:49:25,430 and the detention, I'm sorry, keeps in detention. 541 00:49:25,810 --> 00:49:28,770 The floodplain easement dedication will, 542 00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:34,750 is, will govern any development within that location 543 00:49:34,750 --> 00:49:40,410 as well as providing access and routes to, 544 00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:43,790 if maintenance is needed or something to get down there, 545 00:49:43,890 --> 00:49:45,670 then that will also need to be provided. 546 00:49:55,450 --> 00:49:55,910 The war? 547 00:49:58,900 --> 00:49:59,420 I had a question. 548 00:49:59,420 --> 00:50:10,540 Regarding the sanitary sewer service to the location, per the letter handed to us 549 00:50:10,540 --> 00:50:18,660 dated July 22nd, it said LCMUA currently does not have the ability to provide sanitary 550 00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:27,140 sewer service to this location, but then per the letter that we received from the 13th of 551 00:50:27,140 --> 00:50:39,300 August, it does give two potential options, which is correct, is it that we do have the 552 00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:45,360 listation north west corner of Garza and shady shores and do our manholes northeast 553 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:45,980 of the site? 554 00:50:47,220 --> 00:50:56,020 Yeah, so I discussed the, we'll serve letter from LCUMUA with Devon Shields, who's their 555 00:50:56,020 --> 00:51:01,520 development coordinator, and he stated to me that the letter isn't particularly clear 556 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:06,280 what he's stating is that there is currently no existing sewer that comes to the site, 557 00:51:06,660 --> 00:51:07,380 which is accurate. 558 00:51:07,620 --> 00:51:13,440 There is not sewer within the frontage or on the site, however there is existing sewer that 559 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:20,720 is near to the site that could be accessed by the site and used by the site if they were 560 00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:27,500 to install offsite sewer. And the amount of offsite sewer needed is not an unreasonable 561 00:51:27,500 --> 00:51:33,200 amount in our opinion. And so, oh, go ahead, 562 00:51:35,860 --> 00:51:38,460 use the microphone. Sorry, the distance that 563 00:51:38,460 --> 00:51:44,680 the subdivision is from an available sewer that has capacity is within the required distance 564 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:51,880 per the ordinance for the sub divider to extend their sewer line to that available sewer. 565 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:58,980 So what Luke said, it reasonable, yes, and I think that's in fact maybe some of the 566 00:51:58,980 --> 00:52:03,800 language in the ordinance, but the ordinance also defines the distance required 567 00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:09,960 to have a minimum distance and that falls within that distance. 568 00:52:10,940 --> 00:52:12,480 Does that answer your question? 569 00:52:12,780 --> 00:52:12,920 Okay. 570 00:52:14,940 --> 00:52:16,100 Have a question, Chairman. 571 00:52:16,940 --> 00:52:19,900 One is a 30-day shot clock up on this plat. 572 00:52:19,900 --> 00:52:20,900 So, 573 00:52:29,610 --> 00:52:30,030 if we... 574 00:52:30,030 --> 00:52:32,390 For P&D, and then we'll be... 575 00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:33,890 From here, we'll go sit down. 576 00:52:34,570 --> 00:52:37,730 So, 30 days for P&D and then 30 days for... 577 00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:43,210 I... 578 00:52:43,210 --> 00:52:45,130 I'm just going to express my opinion. 579 00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:48,010 I don't feel comfortable about this at all. 580 00:52:48,270 --> 00:52:50,530 There seems to be a lot of unanswered questions. 581 00:52:51,390 --> 00:52:58,350 There hasn't been enough time to review comments that were just received or just found. 582 00:53:00,290 --> 00:53:04,050 I share the sentiments of some of our residents here. 583 00:53:05,050 --> 00:53:06,550 I just don't feel confident. 584 00:53:07,010 --> 00:53:08,910 I don't think we've had enough eyes on this. 585 00:53:10,230 --> 00:53:12,390 At a minimum, I'd like to have the latest 586 00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:14,950 round of comments reviewed by engineering staff. 587 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,240 What does everyone else think? 588 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:20,260 I'm in agreement. 589 00:53:21,540 --> 00:53:22,940 I think there's a lot of... 590 00:53:22,940 --> 00:53:25,880 Yeah, I've got something I'd like to kind of clarify 591 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,900 because I don't feel like I might be out of touch. 592 00:53:28,900 --> 00:53:36,320 I kind of agree with Nathan, but, you know, in our ordinances, it says that our 593 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:40,040 drainage requirements shall be based on the city of Denton Drainage Design 594 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:46,580 Criteria Manual. Okay? In that manual, it says, 595 00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:51,420 developments which impact designated federal emergency management agency FEMA 596 00:53:51,420 --> 00:53:56,860 flood lines in the city will be required to submit the minimum data which 597 00:53:56,860 --> 00:54:02,780 should be sent to FEMA for conditional approval of the proposed project. 598 00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:08,940 The conditional letter of map revision, which is a CLOMR, that David was talking about, 599 00:54:10,060 --> 00:54:15,420 should be submitted to the city prior to the approval of any preliminary plan. 600 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,460 Do we have that in hand, David, 601 00:54:20,490 --> 00:54:21,070 from FEMA? 602 00:54:22,250 --> 00:54:30,030 No, we're wasting our time here because that should be in our hands and it's on a flood 603 00:54:30,030 --> 00:54:35,650 plane issue here and I think that we should be following what's required. 604 00:54:37,660 --> 00:54:39,040 I'm not a last poll. 605 00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:44,820 I know Richard had reviewed that and I know he had had conversations with staff regarding 606 00:54:44,820 --> 00:54:51,220 the applicability of the criminal being submitted at the preliminary what? 607 00:54:54,020 --> 00:54:54,680 I know 608 00:54:54,680 --> 00:55:00,240 the Richard had reviewed that requirement and discussed it with staff regarding 609 00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:03,800 the applicability of the criminal being submitted at the preliminary 610 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:13,680 plat stage and what I recall is he couldn't find the requirement for that to 611 00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,160 be submitted at the preliminary flat stage. 612 00:55:16,940 --> 00:55:20,400 So it's on the website if you want to look on the website. 613 00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,680 Like I said, I'm not lost then because there was not my 614 00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:26,040 understanding that that was. 615 00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,100 Well, I see that's where I agreed with Nathan. 616 00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:30,300 I think we're getting the cart for the horse here. 617 00:55:30,820 --> 00:55:32,160 Then we're going to get in way too far. 618 00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:34,160 And I realize from the developer standpoint, 619 00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:35,280 time is a vessels. 620 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:36,960 And I appreciate that. 621 00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,540 And I appreciate everything you've done to cooperate 622 00:55:41,020 --> 00:55:41,920 with the engineers. 623 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:47,520 but I feel like that, you know, we need to make sure because this is in the FEMA 624 00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:53,260 plan, we make sure that we're following the federal regulations here, as 625 00:55:53,260 --> 00:55:58,860 well as our town regulations. And I don't know if anybody here's qualified to do 626 00:55:58,860 --> 00:56:04,000 me. I'm counting on having that from FEMA that says, okay, this is all right, 627 00:56:04,140 --> 00:56:09,260 their plan is great, y'all take off with it. So I think what may have been the 628 00:56:09,260 --> 00:56:14,960 The current is that there's also a statement in our drainage ordinance that says, if there's 629 00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:20,800 a conflict between Shady Shores ordinance and Denton, then Shady Shores will control. 630 00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:27,940 And so therefore, I think that was why that we were saying the climmer was not required 631 00:56:27,940 --> 00:56:29,540 at the preliminary flat stage. 632 00:56:32,940 --> 00:56:39,160 So Shady Shores has its own drainage ordinance, but some of the design requirements are 633 00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:46,340 the city of Denton and if there's a conflict or discrepancy between the two then the town of 634 00:56:46,340 --> 00:56:47,300 Shady Shores controls. 635 00:56:50,500 --> 00:56:53,960 I just want to make sure that you know we're following that we've got a 636 00:56:53,960 --> 00:57:01,400 lot of questions, the drainage is a huge issue there also I don't see any comments in Richard's 637 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:08,620 letter about off-site improvements and that's a huge deal. The middle school and they developed the 638 00:57:08,620 --> 00:57:16,680 middle school they paid to have off-site improvements to control the water. And I see this being the 639 00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:23,120 very neighbor, the next door neighbor to the middle school that the developer should be responsible 640 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:31,360 for off-site improvements. That's how I'm okay. Yeah, the drainage ordinance has three different ways 641 00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:36,700 for the increase in runoff to be met. And then this is the increase in runoff that's caused by the 642 00:57:36,700 --> 00:57:45,200 developer, and so they have the option of detaining, they have the option of improving 643 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:54,880 the downstream facilities, and they have the option of diversion, but there's not a requirement 644 00:57:54,880 --> 00:58:03,060 that there be downstream improvements if the drainage ordinance is met with different 645 00:58:03,060 --> 00:58:12,340 approaches such as detention. So, in layman's terms, the developer has designed a system 646 00:58:12,340 --> 00:58:17,400 to where he's not releasing any additional rather than what's existing because he's 647 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:22,060 detained, unfortunately, but on site, then the ordinance doesn't require him to improve 648 00:58:22,060 --> 00:58:28,900 the downstream. Have we validated their numbers? We validated the inverse, basically, yes, 649 00:58:28,900 --> 00:58:35,940 the hydrology report and their grading plan because what Mr. Lynette says it just it's 650 00:58:35,940 --> 00:58:37,560 no way that's going to happen. 651 00:58:41,060 --> 00:58:44,200 Currently right now it floods shady shores 652 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:51,630 around you have a five-inch ring. Yes and if you look if you look at the 653 00:58:51,630 --> 00:58:56,530 film in that and the base flood elevations the flood panels over West 654 00:58:56,530 --> 00:59:04,490 Shady Shoes route. That's what exists now. I want to make it easy for the staff and 655 00:59:04,490 --> 00:59:11,170 I want to make it easy for the developer to save his time and that we address each one 656 00:59:11,170 --> 00:59:16,970 of these issues without straining it along and make it easy for the council so they can 657 00:59:16,970 --> 00:59:23,170 sign off on it. He can build his development and move on. And I'm like Nathan, there's too 658 00:59:23,170 --> 00:59:26,130 any unanswered questions for us to do something tonight. 659 00:59:37,070 --> 00:59:37,270 Okay. 660 00:59:40,980 --> 00:59:45,140 I'm not sure the dent in ordinance is requiring the 661 00:59:45,140 --> 00:59:50,280 climber at the preliminary plant stage. We see the dent in 662 00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:55,440 drainage criteria that requires the climber with the 663 00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,180 submitter of the engineering plans but not the preliminary 664 00:59:58,180 --> 00:59:59,600 a very planned and 665 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:21,480 It was it that you heard the FEMA requires it? No, the city of Denton, that's what they're requiring, FEMA, provide the conditional letter, just like we were doing right now, but it's got to be done par to the preliminary plat. We're trying to approve the preliminary plat tonight, and I don't see anything from FEMA. 666 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:29,940 And I would suggest you, and I think you pretty much get with Richard, have a long discussion about the middle school. 667 01:00:31,340 --> 01:00:31,880 Okay. 668 01:00:32,620 --> 01:00:33,760 They're all safe some time. 669 01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:36,440 Okay. 670 01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:39,430 Any further? 671 01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:40,560 Nathan? 672 01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:46,830 If they're not sure what's going on, I'm really not sure what's going on. 673 01:00:47,470 --> 01:00:49,490 I'd like to make a motion at this time. 674 01:00:50,050 --> 01:00:50,590 Okay. 675 01:00:50,950 --> 01:01:02,800 Hey, before you make your motion, your motion will have to be very explicit as to why we are not recommending. 676 01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:09,980 understood. So, okay. Why didn't say what my emotional? No, okay, go ahead. I'll go ahead, go ahead. 677 01:01:11,940 --> 01:01:18,500 So, if the commission determines that it intends to deny the preliminary 678 01:01:18,500 --> 01:01:24,860 plot, I would respectfully ask that specific reasons and ordinances, provisions, 679 01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:30,180 supporting that decision be clearly identified on the record. I raised this 680 01:01:30,180 --> 01:01:33,500 because Texas law places particular importance on the shared, 681 01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,180 excuse me, on the stated basis for a plan disapproval. 682 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:42,340 Under Texas law, a government code section 212.0099, 683 01:01:42,900 --> 01:01:45,260 if a plan disapproval is challenged, 684 01:01:45,820 --> 01:01:49,160 the municipality bears the burden of providing, 685 01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,840 of providing by clear and convincing evidence 686 01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:56,640 that the disapproval complies with applicable statutory requirements 687 01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:01,200 and reviewing the, and the reviewing court may not apply a differential standard. 688 01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:06,520 For this reason, I think it's important for both the town and us as the applicant 689 01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:12,400 that any basis for denial will be precise and supported by applicable ordinances 690 01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,220 and the record before the commission. 691 01:02:15,180 --> 01:02:20,220 We would rather resolve these issues here and continue moving the project forward. 692 01:02:20,820 --> 01:02:21,940 We're asking for approval. 693 01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:51,180 We're making a recommendation, one way or the other, we're not making an approval or rejection, we're making a recommendation to the council, and in any motion that we vote on, we'll have specific reasons why we're going to do it. 694 01:02:54,060 --> 01:02:55,120 Go ahead, Nick. 695 01:02:55,780 --> 01:02:55,940 OK. 696 01:02:56,620 --> 01:02:59,220 I make a motion to recommend to town council 697 01:02:59,220 --> 01:03:02,100 to deny the preliminary plat for the subdivision, 698 01:03:02,180 --> 01:03:05,080 currently called Shady Acres at 420 West Shady Shores. 699 01:03:05,620 --> 01:03:10,640 The reason is primarily the fact that our engineering firm 700 01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:16,060 has just found the comment responses an hour ago. 701 01:03:17,140 --> 01:03:19,260 And I'm not quite sure how we could 702 01:03:19,260 --> 01:03:22,000 recommend approval on something that our engineering firm 703 01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,060 has not reviewed yet. 704 01:03:23,060 --> 01:03:25,580 simply that manner, simply that reason. 705 01:03:30,660 --> 01:03:40,000 Paul, the piece you cited from the Denton ordinance is 706 01:03:42,910 --> 01:03:47,250 fine, but we probably need to have 707 01:03:47,250 --> 01:03:54,930 something in this that references our ordinance saying we follow Denton's rules. 708 01:03:57,020 --> 01:03:58,000 Does that make sense? 709 01:03:58,460 --> 01:03:58,640 No. 710 01:03:59,900 --> 01:04:08,380 Okay. Our ordinance says for drainage purposes, we follow the rules of debt. 711 01:04:10,570 --> 01:04:12,770 You know what ordinance that is? 712 01:04:24,350 --> 01:04:29,260 Is it a ordinance number? 713 01:04:55,660 --> 01:05:03,200 The city follows the ordinance specifically, town incorporates Texas OSSF regulations. 714 01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:10,980 So those are the ordinances that we need to apply with, we do not see where it applies anything with Denton specifically. 715 01:05:20,420 --> 01:05:28,420 Just for reference, that's 13.02.005 state OSSF rules incorporated. 716 01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:51,740 So in the town's ordinance under Drainage, it states that we follow the city of 717 01:05:51,740 --> 01:05:54,640 Ditton's Drainage and Design Manual. 718 01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:01,980 Within that manual, it states that the 719 01:06:01,980 --> 01:06:10,180 the cloner is not to be submitted at the preliminary plant stage. It's supposed to be submitted 720 01:06:10,180 --> 01:06:11,460 with the engineering plans. 721 01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:20,160 So our ordinance didn't adopt Denton's ordinance, but it does 722 01:06:21,420 --> 01:06:28,000 adopt their drainage design manual. So if there's something within the city of Denton's 723 01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:33,220 ordinance that requires a cloner to be submitted, the town's ordinance doesn't specifically adopt 724 01:06:33,220 --> 01:06:42,900 That but that does adopt the design criteria manual for the city of Denver and if there's any discrepancies between that in the town and the town's control 725 01:06:48,910 --> 01:06:52,270 Do that helper hurt or clarify? 726 01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:02,520 Yeah final dreams 727 01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:08,360 Final plan, okay, so 728 01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:11,440 We don't have an ordinance there to reference 729 01:07:14,100 --> 01:07:15,620 Okay, well 730 01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:23,580 If you'll restate your motion one more time. 731 01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:31,000 I recommend I make a motion to recommend to town council the denial of the preliminary 732 01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:38,320 plan for the subdivision called Shady Acres at 420 West Shady Shores Road solely for the 733 01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:44,820 reason that our engineering firm has not had a chance to review the comments they had just 734 01:07:46,260 --> 01:07:51,400 that was just bound or just was presented to them an hour ago. I don't know how 735 01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:56,520 we can make a recommendation without our third party engineering firm which is 736 01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:00,300 the one that's supposed to be doing all these figures. Put it in the form of a 737 01:08:00,300 --> 01:08:05,100 motion she can write down. That's it. Thank you. Okay a second to that. 738 01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:09,980 Second. You can't vote because you're an alternate and we got a second. 739 01:08:17,610 --> 01:08:17,610 Okay 740 01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:41,840 I just want to reiterate I would not feel comfortable recommending approval with our engineering firm not being able to see all the information. Thank you. 741 01:08:42,660 --> 01:08:51,100 I'm going to vote against the motion because I believe that this is a preliminary plan. 742 01:08:51,100 --> 01:08:58,000 And those things will get worked out between now and the final plan. 743 01:08:58,580 --> 01:08:59,420 I understand. 744 01:09:00,460 --> 01:09:02,120 I can't. 745 01:09:03,730 --> 01:09:06,090 I don't disagree with you. 746 01:09:07,110 --> 01:09:08,430 You're logic. 747 01:09:08,890 --> 01:09:12,230 This is what was presented in tonight's agenda and packet. 748 01:09:12,870 --> 01:09:14,430 This raises alarm. 749 01:09:15,330 --> 01:09:16,390 I'm following this. 750 01:09:16,870 --> 01:09:19,250 They're at a loss multiple times. 751 01:09:19,970 --> 01:09:21,910 We have a lot of unanswered questions. 752 01:09:21,910 --> 01:09:24,450 If you feel comfortable, you go right ahead. 753 01:09:24,550 --> 01:09:26,990 Okay, well, that's it, let's pardon. 754 01:09:39,490 --> 01:09:43,690 Yes, they are in violation of, in order to... 755 01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:51,140 I'd be happy to do so, reference based on engineering if they had a chance to review 756 01:09:51,140 --> 01:09:52,060 the latest comments. 757 01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:56,640 I'd be happy to give those to you, but they don't have it, so that means I don't have it. 758 01:09:57,580 --> 01:10:00,480 If we want to push this through, I will change my motion. 759 01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:07,060 I have a question, so if I understand this correctly because we don't have an actual 760 01:10:07,060 --> 01:10:14,380 ordinance to quote here, even if we have concerns, many of them, if we don't have an actual 761 01:10:14,380 --> 01:10:17,860 ordinance it will be deemed approved as is tomorrow, correct? 762 01:10:21,070 --> 01:10:28,790 How to give what you need to be very specific which ordinance they are violating or reason 763 01:10:28,790 --> 01:10:31,930 and why you were not present in the approval. 764 01:10:32,890 --> 01:10:38,630 I would love to do that, but how can we, if our engineering firm has not had a chance 765 01:10:38,630 --> 01:10:43,610 to review, because the last thing I have from the engineering firm is 14 points 766 01:10:43,610 --> 01:10:47,450 that have not been addressed according to them, of concern. 767 01:10:49,870 --> 01:10:53,450 Well, I'm kind of, it seems like Lyron has set up, let me make a suggestion. 768 01:10:53,450 --> 01:11:03,790 You could, would you be willing to approve it, subject to the resolution of those points? 769 01:11:12,780 --> 01:11:15,940 Is conditional approval, yeah, warrant? 770 01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:19,760 Yes. 771 01:11:20,900 --> 01:11:22,920 Would a modifier motion? 772 01:11:24,260 --> 01:11:27,620 I withdraw my motion and I'm not making another motion. 773 01:11:29,650 --> 01:11:29,930 I guess. 774 01:11:31,330 --> 01:11:37,230 I'll make a motion to recommend the town council to conditionally approve the preliminary 775 01:11:37,230 --> 01:11:42,330 plan for the subdivision currently called Shady Acres at 420 West Shady Shores Road. 776 01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:47,930 The developer must meet the seven conditions as outlined in the letter from the town engineer 777 01:11:47,930 --> 01:11:53,510 and additionally needs to include the navigation easement on the plan. 778 01:11:56,700 --> 01:11:58,220 Is there a second to that? 779 01:11:58,220 --> 01:11:58,840 I 780 01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:05,160 have a question on that. Does that include the seven additional comments? 781 01:12:07,700 --> 01:12:11,660 Or is that for the future next step? Okay, that's fine. That's satisfying. 782 01:12:13,380 --> 01:12:14,440 I second that. 783 01:12:15,500 --> 01:12:16,920 Any further discussion? 784 01:12:21,010 --> 01:12:23,150 We'll do a roll call, Tonya. 785 01:12:23,910 --> 01:12:25,230 I'm in favor of the motion. 786 01:12:26,010 --> 01:12:26,290 Nathan? 787 01:12:27,250 --> 01:12:29,450 I'm in favor, but I want to make a statement after. 788 01:12:29,990 --> 01:12:30,230 Okay. 789 01:12:30,230 --> 01:12:36,290 I'm in favor, and I'm in favor, so it passes. 790 01:12:37,630 --> 01:12:38,070 Nathan? 791 01:12:38,910 --> 01:12:42,030 I'm extremely disappointed in tonight's meeting. 792 01:12:42,410 --> 01:12:45,510 We should not be bickering back and forth. 793 01:12:45,970 --> 01:12:47,230 He says they sent comments. 794 01:12:47,570 --> 01:12:48,190 They said no. 795 01:12:48,410 --> 01:12:49,490 Hope they just found them. 796 01:12:49,930 --> 01:12:53,770 A lot of on the answer, it should be a lot smoother than this tonight. 797 01:12:56,250 --> 01:12:56,890 That's it. 798 01:12:57,670 --> 01:12:58,350 Thank you. 799 01:12:59,850 --> 01:13:02,350 With that, I will adjourn our meeting.