1
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:32,399
Noting that it's 7:04 p.m. on August
12th, 2026.

2
00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:37,680
I am calling the board of health meeting
to order. And first thing we'll do is

3
00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:42,160
since this is a virtual meeting, all
board members will announce their

4
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:48,440
presence in alphabetical order. So Daryl
Beardsley present.

5
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,440
» Steve Constantine present.

6
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:59,600
» Rebecca Conwell present.
>> Good Chaporico present.

7
00:00:54,800 --> 00:01:05,199
» Okay. The next thing we have is um
whether there were any items not

8
00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:11,360
reasonably anticipated
by the chair 48 hours in advance of the

9
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:15,680
meeting.
Is anyone aware of anything that is

10
00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:22,720
timesensitive that should be addressed
tonight before our next meeting?

11
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:27,520
» Nothing from me.
>> Okay. Yes. I am also not aware of

12
00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:33,119
anything.
>> Mark is muted. I don't know if he

13
00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,600
» No, same here. I have nothing to add to
the agenda for tonight. Thank you though

14
00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:40,560
for asking.
>> Okay.

15
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:47,520
All right. Um,
do we have a presentation at 710?

16
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:57,159
Is there anyone or who is here in the
audience for something that is possibly

17
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:57,159
brief as in five minutes worth?

18
00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:08,800
Okay. Uh hearing none, what we can do is
let's take the appointment of Stantech

19
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:16,239
as a supplemental health agent or 168
Woodland Street. Would anyone like uh

20
00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:23,400
any discussion needed among the board?
We've done this before for Santech for

21
00:02:18,959 --> 00:02:23,400
selected projects as appropriate.

22
00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:29,680
Anyone have any comments or shall I make
a motion?

23
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:34,160
» I think I'm fine with it. I think a
motion is in order.

24
00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:40,800
» Okay.
So, uh, do we have a motion to or I I

25
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:46,080
move that we appoint Stantech as the
supplemental health agent for 168

26
00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:51,120
Woodland Street.
>> So moved.

27
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:56,480
» A second.
>> Okay. Any further comments? Hearing

28
00:02:53,680 --> 00:03:00,519
none. Daryl Beardsley I.
>> Steve Constantine. I

29
00:03:00,959 --> 00:03:03,959
» close.

30
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:20,000
» Three minutes. Mark, 155 Maple Street
update. Or is that too complicated?

31
00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:25,599
» Uh, it's not complicated. I was hoping
the homeowner would be here. Uh we set

32
00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:31,760
some uh guidelines for this property and
actually deadlines I should say or at

33
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:37,280
least that they have the plan into us by
the end of this month and it be

34
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:40,959
installed by the end of the year. Uh I
informed the homeowner and the

35
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:45,840
contractor.
Um I was hoping the homeowner would be

36
00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:50,879
here uh that we would be discussing it
but she's not that I can see. But I can

37
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:57,840
update her beginning of next week or
tomorrow on the status. But uh I have

38
00:03:54,239 --> 00:04:02,640
not yet seen a septic plan submitted for
this property. This is the property that

39
00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:09,040
has a failed title 5. It's now passed
due for the installation of a

40
00:04:04,959 --> 00:04:13,840
replacement septic system. Um, so pretty
much I'm hoping that I can report to you

41
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:18,639
at the September meeting that the plans
are in and you know we'll start the

42
00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:22,880
review process. It has to go to
conservation prior to the board of

43
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:28,160
health. I expect that's going to take a
little bit because there's a pond not

44
00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:31,840
too far from that location with the
location of where the septic systems

45
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:39,280
going.
>> Yes. Okay. All right. So not yet. Yes.

46
00:04:35,759 --> 00:04:43,440
keep us updated about if and when the uh
plan comes in. So,

47
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:47,919
» I will do that. Yeah,
>> good to go for the next meeting.

48
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:52,320
» Yeah, we can put that on at the end of
this meeting. I'll just add that to it

49
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:56,479
as well uh to give an update on 155
Maple.

50
00:04:54,160 --> 00:05:00,320
» All right. Since we have a the
presentation coming up and Tom, I'm

51
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:07,039
assuming that you have something you
might want to show. How about if we

52
00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:10,080
experiment with getting the uh
share screen?

53
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:15,280
» I would I would love to share
>> permissions over to you.

54
00:05:12,639 --> 00:05:20,080
» Okay, Tom, I just clicked to make you a
co-host. You should be able to screen.

55
00:05:17,919 --> 00:05:25,840
I'm going to stop sharing. Let me know
if you now have that ability.

56
00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:29,759
» Ah, it lets me do the share.
>> Amazing.

57
00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:34,680
Then I will give it to you to take it
away.

58
00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,680
Fantastic.

59
00:05:37,199 --> 00:05:41,280
» Well, thank you.
>> One minute if you don't mind, just so we

60
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:47,360
can
>> No, I don't mind.

61
00:05:43,759 --> 00:05:52,400
» Oh, you can pull it up. I think we're
close.

62
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:57,360
» I I have pulled it up. Can you see? Uh
>> Oh, I'm not seeing it yet.

63
00:05:54,639 --> 00:06:02,274
» I'm seeing it.
Oh,

64
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,274
» I I see it. [laughter]

65
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,080
Okay,
>> I see it.

66
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:12,720
» I can see it.
>> Okay,

67
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:19,600
» Darl, I was on a farm pond committee
meeting last week and some of their

68
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:26,080
members had an older version of Zoom
and they had trouble seeing it. H

69
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:32,240
» yes, I did get a message today
that when I said allow for audio and

70
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:37,280
video, making the audio, but not so
great on the video.

71
00:06:35,039 --> 00:06:43,560
I thought it was just not transmitting
me. But anyway, I will listen

72
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,560
attentively.

73
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:53,840
» Actually, uh I sent the PDF to uh Sarah.
Maybe she can email it to you. Yeah, I

74
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:57,120
can do that.
>> And and the rest of the board.

75
00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,680
» Yeah,
>> whatever is easy.

76
00:07:06,319 --> 00:07:11,080
Didn't know we had an official start
time.

77
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:19,360
» Well, we're past it, so you can start at
any time. Well, thank you for inviting

78
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:23,759
the uh open space committee to spend a
few minutes with you uh really giving

79
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:29,440
you an introduction
to uh our major redo of the plan which

80
00:07:27,599 --> 00:07:34,240
uh the current plan's about eight years
old. I'm I'm here with our chair, uh,

81
00:07:32,319 --> 00:07:40,080
Sam Nelson,
and our our purpose is to give you a

82
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:47,520
little flavor of the revision. We hope
to be finishing up this fall, and that

83
00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:53,759
we hope to have actually a a uh printed
and edited document that we can send

84
00:07:50,000 --> 00:08:00,479
around for public comment uh before the
end of the year. But uh in uh in

85
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:05,599
thinking about how to start this, I
thought I' I'd go with a couple graphics

86
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:10,720
and one of the one of the more exciting
things in the open space world uh in

87
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:15,520
Sherburn, at least to me, is our newest
property. I hope several of you have

88
00:08:12,879 --> 00:08:20,960
been to the new trustees property on
Bullard Street, Melbourne Farm. It's 195

89
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:28,000
» beautiful
>> 195 acre beautiful farm. It straddles

90
00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:34,000
the uh Milis line, hence the name
Millbourne. The uh original owners named

91
00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:40,000
it that Milis and Sherbornne.
But uh it's an outstanding property. And

92
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:47,600
the other exciting thing is it's our
first Sherborn property with publicly

93
00:08:43,839 --> 00:08:52,320
accessible trails. the trustees did an
outstanding job

94
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:59,519
leveling some of the the trails and
making them uh uh uh accessible. So,

95
00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:05,760
that's fantastic. I think many of you uh
have lived in town uh for quite a while,

96
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:10,000
so you I assume you're aware, but I
wanted to show you some of the maps

97
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:17,120
we're uh using for the plan. I mean,
Sherbornne is uh ble blessed with a

98
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:24,640
tremendous amount of open space plan.
We're about 78 for 78% forested.

99
00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:30,000
And you know, compared to our
neighboring towns, we we really have a

100
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:34,640
tremendous amount of both private and p
public open space. And of course one of

101
00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:41,839
the first benefits to that you see on
the the right hand map uh basically a a

102
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:47,440
heat map of heat uh showing relative
surface temperatures and you know in a

103
00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:52,240
week like this we are really lucky
compared to a lot of our neighbors.

104
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:57,279
» Beautiful.
>> We're a cool town. [laughter]

105
00:09:54,880 --> 00:10:02,661
» Cool town. Good.
>> My my slight is not not advancing.

106
00:10:00,641 --> 00:10:02,661
[laughter]

107
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,640
Sorry about this. Let me exit.

108
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:15,399
Let me stop sharing and go back. I
apologize.

109
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:32,560
Okay.
Uh I added this slide special to your

110
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:38,240
committee. Uh
uh I was uh getting involved a lot more

111
00:10:34,959 --> 00:10:43,360
with uh open space and I'm on the board
of a land trust and I went to a land

112
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:48,240
trust annual conference uh in the spring
Massachusetts land trust coalition and

113
00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:56,160
this pediatrician just gave a fantastic
presentation on the benefits of uh open

114
00:10:52,000 --> 00:11:00,399
space and recreation to uh to her
patients. So if you're not familiar with

115
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:05,760
some of this work given that you're in
the uh public sp uh public health world

116
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:11,360
you might might take a look at it but it
was really really eyeopening what she

117
00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:18,480
shared. Now what is the open space
committee? Uh I wanted to uh make make

118
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:23,279
sure you're aware because we're not uh
you know the most visible committee

119
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:29,920
around since we just do uh open space
plans about every 8 to 10 years. But our

120
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:36,640
primary mission is the protection of our
uh open space the environmental and

121
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:44,000
recreational resources in Sherborn. We
are required by the state to uh create

122
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:50,720
this open space and recreation plan that
in that includes you know our organized

123
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:55,760
and formal rec recreational activities
in town.

124
00:11:52,640 --> 00:12:01,200
uh in in in this planning process, we uh
come up with lists of goals and

125
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:06,959
recommendations and strategies
and we assign those to different town

126
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:11,920
boards, committees, nonprofits,
etc. And near the end, I'm going to show

127
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:18,000
you a couple things we're we're hoping
to assign assigned to you for homework.

128
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:23,839
And uh the the state had required these
updates every seven years. It's now gone

129
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:28,959
to a 10-year format. And that's the plan
from uh eight years ago. Hoping some of

130
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:33,519
you may have seen it, but if you're
interested, there's the link. The

131
00:12:31,519 --> 00:12:40,000
committee itself, there's eight of us.
Uh you see the membership here or one

132
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:46,240
associate member, Kelly Mcclin, moved to
Medfield, but luckily we still have his

133
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:51,360
uh his help. But many of these names you
probably know. Marian Nitra from the

134
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:55,839
select board. Uh myself, I'm also on the
groundwater protection committee and

135
00:12:53,440 --> 00:13:00,720
recently rolled off the energy and
sustainability committee. Nick

136
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:08,240
Rodenhouse is a retired uh Welsley
College uh ecologist, professor. Nicole

137
00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:13,360
Weim Meer chairs our disability advisory
committee. Kevin Stevenson's an IT

138
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:19,680
professional. Dave Welch, many of you
know from our rec commission. And we got

139
00:13:16,399 --> 00:13:26,320
some great uh support from a number of
uh staff members that you know. Uh

140
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:32,399
here's a busy slide. I want to quickly
introduce

141
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:38,480
or define what we mean by by open space
and and and and really we're focusing on

142
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:44,480
what lands are have some level of
protection

143
00:13:40,079 --> 00:13:50,720
uh both at the uh local and state level.
Sherbornne's roughly about 10,000 acres.

144
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:57,040
Makes the math simple. Uh we have
permanently protected right now about

145
00:13:53,360 --> 00:14:04,000
30% of the town. About half of that is
owned by the town and most of that is

146
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:08,880
conservation land in this darker green
or town forest in this lighter green.

147
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:14,399
But there's plenty of other uh town
lands besides that. The state has about

148
00:14:12,079 --> 00:14:21,120
156 acres.
125 acres of that is Farm Pond, a great

149
00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:26,720
uh pond and and you go on and on. Uh
Mass Ottabbon about 300 acres of the 500

150
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:33,360
acre Ottabon.
Trustees are close to 400 acres now with

151
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:39,920
with Milbourne plus they have several
conservation restrictions. Uh the

152
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:46,959
Sherborn Rural Land Foundation has 250
acres uh land trust and the Upper

153
00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:54,399
Charles Land Trust 80 acres. Besides
this third 3,000 acres, we have what's

154
00:14:50,880 --> 00:15:00,720
called temporarily protected land in
special tax status with the town whereby

155
00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:09,519
people have put a portion of their land
in chapter 61 forestry, chapter 61A

156
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:14,279
agriculture or 61B open space protection
and they get a break in in their taxes.

157
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:24,160
So that gives you a lot a lot of flavor
of uh the different uh land ownership,

158
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:28,720
land uses and on top of that uh if you
look at more more or less the white

159
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:33,920
shaded area of the map with all the
parcels cut out that that's all your

160
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:39,199
properties as as you know you and many
of your of your neighbors have plenty of

161
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:44,880
open space. So that that's why Sherborn
is in such great shape when it comes to

162
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:50,560
open space. Here's just an outline on
the right of the uh uh current state

163
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:56,240
guideline for the open space plan. We're
pretty much done with three community

164
00:15:53,440 --> 00:16:00,399
setting. Four, environmental inventory
and analysis. I'm working on that with

165
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:05,920
Nick Rodenhouse.
And uh the inventory of of lands. Right

166
00:16:03,839 --> 00:16:12,079
now, we're finalizing our needs and
action plans. And when we're done, we'll

167
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:20,480
write the introduction and in summary
and uh ask for uh public comment

168
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:27,199
in in uh creating the plan. One thing
that helped uh earlier uh around the

169
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:32,800
beginning of the year, we did a major uh
survey of residents. I hope many people

170
00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:39,360
on this call uh uh contributed to the
survey. We got over 400 replies which I

171
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:46,160
think is uh pretty good for Sherborn
survey. Just one one example of uh one

172
00:16:43,279 --> 00:16:51,600
of the questions here. Uh but what
bubbled up from the couple dozen

173
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:56,320
questions in terms of priorities,
they're listed on the right here. uh

174
00:16:54,240 --> 00:17:02,959
water water resources was was
surprisingly uh the highest and things

175
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:08,959
like organized uh recreation while while
important of course to a lot of people

176
00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:15,039
uh fell down with with uh lower
priorities.

177
00:17:11,679 --> 00:17:20,640
And from that uh analysis and all of our
work uh we've got six broad goals that

178
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:24,880
that you see right here. water
resources,

179
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:29,760
promoting biodiversity
uh and resilience. Uh for the first

180
00:17:26,959 --> 00:17:36,640
time, we we had a lot of uh focus on
climate change in in this in this plan

181
00:17:33,679 --> 00:17:43,360
and uh safeguarding open spaces and the
scenic character and of course

182
00:17:39,039 --> 00:17:50,160
recreation and the uh uh uh facilities
for our organized sports.

183
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:57,120
I'm going to jump to
uh the needs when it comes to needs and

184
00:17:54,160 --> 00:18:03,280
strategies and actions.
Uh these are these are the seven major

185
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:10,080
areas and and this is where we're coming
up with different actions and uh uh

186
00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:13,919
thinking about what what towns
uh boards and committees might might be

187
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:19,360
able to help. and we we did this
similarly eight years ago and and some

188
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:24,080
of and some of the goals have carried on
from there. When it comes to your board,

189
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:29,200
it's the one that we really have a
direct connection is water resource

190
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:34,640
protection and less so some of the
others. Although I think on things like

191
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:39,919
open space, I can think of farm pond. I
think we have you listed for things like

192
00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:45,760
uh cyanobacteria and and things like
that that uh can affect the use of that

193
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:53,760
resources.
This is one example of the uh action

194
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:59,039
plan section seven with the needs
recommendations and possible actions.

195
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:04,240
And I pulled up this one because it had
your name uh against some of the uh

196
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:10,640
actions
and we'll share with this with you and

197
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:19,280
we're interested in feedback now or
later and some examples from the uh 2018

198
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:27,600
plan. the groundwater protection
committee uh did was not active at that

199
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:33,200
time uh had gone dormant and one of the
one of the actions or uh strategies was

200
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:38,320
to reinstate the groundwater protection
plan and uh and fortunately that was

201
00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:43,360
done and the groundwater protection
committee has been working in many of

202
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:49,280
these areas and so I'm not going to read
all of these but uh uh certainly

203
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:54,559
uh when it comes to both the surface
waters and uh groundwater, we're really

204
00:19:52,960 --> 00:20:00,400
uh I think it's very important to
document much more the condition of

205
00:19:57,919 --> 00:20:05,840
where things are that and actually that
comes to one request. You may or may not

206
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:14,080
like it. We're suggesting uh you
consider uh uh updating your regulations

207
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:22,080
to to uh uh require uh private wellwater
testing at at time of property transfer

208
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:27,120
like like the D uh recommends for uh for
towns.

209
00:20:23,919 --> 00:20:32,320
So that is uh
some of our recommendations the board

210
00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:36,400
any I haven't allowed any questions
you're

211
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:41,480
we're almost done here so any questions
on what we're we're showing here

212
00:20:45,919 --> 00:20:54,559
quiet group Sam you want to add anything
>> yeah I I guess I just would like some

213
00:20:50,960 --> 00:21:01,440
feedback from your group um We have um
as Tom said, we are suggesting that uh

214
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:06,400
there is a requirement for well testing
at the at the time of home sale and we

215
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:12,400
have actually designated board of health
as being the lead on that. So we would

216
00:21:10,159 --> 00:21:16,480
be very curious to know if that is
something that you are willing to take

217
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:22,159
on.
>> I think we should have a discussion on

218
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:30,559
that. It's come up a bunch of times. Um,
and I do have more experience in the

219
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:38,080
commercial world with this or uh clients
and what it means for a property. Um,

220
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:43,520
it
I would rather find a way to encourage

221
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:47,600
people to test more frequently while
they're living there and not wait until

222
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:50,640
they're moving. So, in the interest of
public health, to me, that's more

223
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:56,000
important.
There's also

224
00:21:52,799 --> 00:22:05,000
financial implications of being the one
house who had to test because they're

225
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:05,000
planning to sell and

226
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:11,600
groundwater is moving. Groundwater is
not only affected by the people living

227
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:17,919
on the property and their wellwater is
not a reflection of only their actions.

228
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:24,960
So, I feel like it
it has some downsides to those who go

229
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:28,640
first in uh in the selling of their
home.

230
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:32,880
» We we definitely
>> it's a little it's a little more

231
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:37,600
complicated and it also is not getting
at the idea of along the way people

232
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:44,159
should know what they're drinking. Um,
and whether that's setting up programs

233
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:48,720
that make it easier for the uh, so
people don't have to drive bar or hire

234
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:54,000
if they don't want to hire someone to
come and take the samples, whatever it

235
00:22:51,039 --> 00:23:01,200
is that would make it simpler
for that $150 test or $200 worth of

236
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:06,320
testing every few years. me that would
be a place I would rather put some

237
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:12,360
energy but it's very hard for us as a
regulatory board to organize that

238
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:12,360
because

239
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:22,000
um it just is
and it it also implies like obligation

240
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:24,799
to report to us on findings or not. But
really

241
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:29,280
» my objective would be that people
understand where their water is and what

242
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:33,600
might what treatment might be needed if
any.

243
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:38,240
» Some some of our recommended actions uh
somebody on the committee used the word

244
00:23:35,919 --> 00:23:42,960
aspirational
uh you know we're not expecting this to

245
00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:47,679
happen in a year. This could take three,
four, six years you know to get

246
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:52,240
regulations changed. So it's it's just
something we want to put out there and

247
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:55,480
» have considered. I see Rebecca has her
hand up.

248
00:23:56,159 --> 00:24:01,720
» Go ahead, Rebecca.
>> Is muted.

249
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:19,400
» Can one of the hosts unmute her?
>> I got it. I got it.

250
00:24:20,159 --> 00:24:23,559
There's feedback.

251
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:30,000
» Let's see if we can do it this way
without feedback.

252
00:24:28,159 --> 00:24:34,240
» I think there is there feedback. Do you
hear it?

253
00:24:31,919 --> 00:24:37,440
» I think I think we can still still hear
you.

254
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:44,320
» I'm moving that out of reach. See if
that helps. Um, as a physician, I agree

255
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:48,880
100%. I think one of the problems um
that is not only Sherburn's problem,

256
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:53,520
it's also across the country is that
private wellwater is considered private

257
00:24:51,919 --> 00:24:57,120
property. The land the laws are
antiquated

258
00:24:55,039 --> 00:25:01,760
and it puts a lot of burden on the
individual. But I think as a public

259
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:05,919
service
um it's important to know that

260
00:25:03,679 --> 00:25:12,720
information because not it's shared
resources. And so I agree with you that

261
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:17,360
it should be required at the time of
transaction

262
00:25:14,799 --> 00:25:22,080
um for everyone to have awareness of
what their situation is. Um I know that

263
00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:26,320
there are different opinions and there
is some debate but it's required in

264
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:32,080
other places where there's public water
supply.

265
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:36,960
So I'm not sure that I think it would be
a good idea if we can upgrade those

266
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:41,679
regulations. And I also think that
there's some initiatives going on at the

267
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:48,480
federal and state level to try to
upgrade the to change some of the laws

268
00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:55,120
it because it's the vast minority of
homes that have um our situation which

269
00:25:52,799 --> 00:26:00,480
is private wellwater and private septic
systems. So sometimes

270
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:06,480
pe people I was going to say patients
but I think sometimes people don't even

271
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:11,039
know the risks and that's an almost more
important reason to get the information

272
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:15,520
so that we can help them to understand
how compensation could be made what

273
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:20,480
efforts need to be taken to protect
themselves from public health risks that

274
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:25,520
could be happening to themselves or to
their neighbors. So, I agree. Um, it's

275
00:26:23,919 --> 00:26:30,320
and I think part of the reason that it's
complicated is because of the perception

276
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:34,720
that although it's actually true, but
this is where the board of health comes

277
00:26:31,679 --> 00:26:41,440
in, we should be making every effort we
can to protect drinking water in order

278
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:45,600
to protect property values in addition
to public health because I think

279
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:50,480
sometimes people's perspective is they
don't want to affect their property

280
00:26:47,919 --> 00:26:55,480
value. But the reality is
we can help with that by enforcing our

281
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,480
regulations.

282
00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:05,640
» Great. I
>> which I'll just add we do every time we

283
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,640
meet and every day.

284
00:27:05,919 --> 00:27:14,799
I I think one of the other um concerns
of the open space committee is that not

285
00:27:11,679 --> 00:27:19,919
only would testing protect the uh
potential uh new home purchaser, but

286
00:27:17,679 --> 00:27:26,320
it's also a way to start to collect data
on our our wellwater. If if if testing

287
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:31,600
wells is voluntary right now, we're you
know we may collect some information. We

288
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:36,960
but it depends on volunteers. But if we
are beginning to require testing at the

289
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:46,240
time of home sales, then we are building
up a um a database which could be very

290
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:50,240
useful in tracking the quality of uh of
groundwater as we move onward.

291
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:57,679
Otherwise, otherwise we're just kind of
relying on voluntary testing to try to

292
00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:01,919
create a database which um may may work
but it uh it may not work. So, I think

293
00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:08,799
that was just one one of the other
concerns that we were thinking about as

294
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:11,919
we were uh proposing this this motion.
>> Good. Thanks.

295
00:28:09,919 --> 00:28:16,960
» Some of the things that we've talked
about in the past uh not the board of

296
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:24,559
health, but the former groundwater
protection committee makeup um

297
00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:30,640
was supporting some sort of testing
program. again. I mean, one year I was

298
00:28:28,399 --> 00:28:34,320
going to pick up containers and I just
called a whole bunch of people I knew

299
00:28:32,159 --> 00:28:39,200
and said, "If you want to participate,
I'll get the containers and I'll bring

300
00:28:35,919 --> 00:28:44,799
them back." The lab, you just have to,
you know, specify to the lab what tests

301
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:49,440
you want run and pay for it. Um, and I
showed people how to fill up containers

302
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:53,919
and all the rest. But if it was not a
regulatory body,

303
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:58,240
it might be able to be organized so that
people were getting the test results.

304
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:05,360
And then there might be some way rather
than pinpoint a particular property

305
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:12,000
who participated in that
um and have their data is to do kind of

306
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:19,760
a grid
and just have people note the grid that

307
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:25,600
they were in. and the test results
um to make it a little more anonymous.

308
00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:31,440
And also some of this comes from right
out of grad school. I worked on

309
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:38,080
something looking at how do you value
um mun the water serving

310
00:29:35,919 --> 00:29:43,360
a town whether it's a municipal water
supply or individual wells. How do you

311
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:49,039
put a price tag on that for an industry
who has contaminated the groundwater?

312
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:56,080
And Wburn was happening kind of early
on. Um, Actton is a a town more like

313
00:29:52,799 --> 00:30:02,480
ours that has a similar situation. And
the housing market went drastically down

314
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:13,120
in Actton. And I'm talking
how many years ago? 40 years ago. So um

315
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:17,919
or more uh so that is the impact I don't
want to have. I want to have awareness

316
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:23,520
of
uh what people's um drinking water

317
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:28,399
quality is like. It might help reinforce
what we can do programmatically within

318
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:32,880
the board of health. That can help us
defend our regulations.

319
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:38,240
Lots of good things. But it shouldn't be
waiting till sale. It shouldn't be

320
00:30:35,679 --> 00:30:46,000
isolating the house that's on the market
at the moment until everyone becomes

321
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:52,240
more aware. Um, when we bought here,
partially I'm in the field and partially

322
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:56,240
lenders would require water testing for
some period of time. I guess that

323
00:30:53,840 --> 00:31:02,480
doesn't happen anymore, but it was very
easy to just tell a homeowner, I want to

324
00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:06,080
grab a sample. Um, and then you can make
sure that, you know, you don't, most

325
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:11,840
people don't even want to trust the
results of the current homeowner. They

326
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:16,320
could have gotten, you know, filtered
water from somewhere and stuck it in

327
00:31:13,679 --> 00:31:21,919
test tubes and had the test run. So,
it's actually better if the incoming

328
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:25,520
homeowner does the testing if that's the
part you want to get at is for the

329
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:33,600
incoming people. But, I am concerned
about who's here now. Uh and making sure

330
00:31:29,919 --> 00:31:41,440
that you know again if something needs
to be done at either on a house by house

331
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:48,399
basis for treatment or in terms of what
we're aiming for in terms of regulations

332
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:55,440
around um behaviors and different
chemical use and that sort of thing then

333
00:31:52,480 --> 00:32:02,279
that's where I'd want to put the effort.
I see the others causing a lot of pain

334
00:31:58,159 --> 00:32:02,279
without the desired effect.

335
00:32:02,399 --> 00:32:08,799
» Good.
>> Yes, it would lead to gathering data. I

336
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:12,559
agree with that, but it would be slower.
>> This is a good starting discussion and

337
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:17,120
we'll we'll separately maybe through the
groundwater protection committee uh

338
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:21,919
continue these discussions. But I just
wanted to finish up with this slide just

339
00:32:19,679 --> 00:32:27,039
again reaching out if if you got any
other ideas uh what what you like or

340
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:33,279
dislike what's going on in the town
regarding our open space regarding our

341
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:38,880
recreational uh facilities and programs.
please reach out to uh Samurai and we'll

342
00:32:36,399 --> 00:32:45,360
make sure we get uh things into the
plan. And again, we'll be back to you uh

343
00:32:41,919 --> 00:32:51,519
later in the year hopefully with a uh a
uh edited and complete uh draft for

344
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:55,760
public comment. But thank you for your
time tonight. C

345
00:32:53,120 --> 00:33:01,760
» can can I add one more
>> can I make one more comment please? One

346
00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:10,159
more question. Um and that is um ticks.
Um as you know um there is some concern

347
00:33:05,679 --> 00:33:17,120
about tickborne diseases and as uh the
best way that we can reduce tickborne

348
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:22,159
diseases is to reduce the deer
population in town which is hugely

349
00:33:19,919 --> 00:33:28,000
overpop populated. And there are many
reasons why it is um it might be valid

350
00:33:25,919 --> 00:33:32,880
to try to reduce the deer population.
everything from the destruction of

351
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:37,360
native plants to the amount of deer who
are starving in the winter now because

352
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:42,960
there's not enough food to eat. Um so
one of the suggestions from the town

353
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:50,240
forest committee is to expand public
hunting and um we know that um uh depart

354
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:57,679
the board of health is interested in
public health and uh trying to expand uh

355
00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:05,519
deer hunting in Sherburn might be a big
task um people love deer um and may not

356
00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:11,520
recognize the public health dimension of
it But we were curious whether the board

357
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:16,639
of health would be supportive of an
effort by led by the town forest

358
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:20,560
committee to try to expand hunting. Now,
we don't have a we don't have a strategy

359
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:25,280
yet. We don't know exactly what expand
hunting means. They haven't come up with

360
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:29,839
one, but if that were to take place, we
were curious on whether board of health

361
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:35,599
would be willing to sign on to that
effort um or not

362
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:40,720
» or at least consider it. say that was
that's exactly the topic I wanted to

363
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:46,079
bring up with you uh to find out because
to me that is a good intersection

364
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:51,119
between our open space and public health
uh is the tick issue and whether it ties

365
00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:55,399
back to the deer or mice more or which
one um

366
00:34:56,159 --> 00:35:01,680
» could it also
>> I am interested in talking about that

367
00:34:59,359 --> 00:35:09,440
but I will and I don't know if it was
recorded but sometime during

368
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:16,880
COVID around this early period of COVID
I think that's when it was and someone

369
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:23,440
in town must know um the exact date is
someone from the state fish and wildlife

370
00:35:19,359 --> 00:35:29,839
I believe came and spoke about
what it means to manage deer populations

371
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:35,280
and how much management would have to go
on what the numbers are of deer that you

372
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:40,720
would need too. Um
all

373
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:46,960
uh and then how and safety around that.
So right now there is the program where

374
00:35:44,079 --> 00:35:51,920
the Rocky Narrows um woods I don't know
if there are others in town but bow

375
00:35:49,839 --> 00:35:57,920
hunters are permitted in there. They
have to be a certain distance from the

376
00:35:54,000 --> 00:36:03,119
trails and know not on Sundays or
something like that. I can't remember

377
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:08,800
exactly all the rules, but uh that's an
option. There's a group that you can

378
00:36:06,079 --> 00:36:17,920
individual property owners can contact
and they have vetted hunters for safety.

379
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:25,280
Uh we permit a bow hunter or have had a
few bow hunters on our property. um had

380
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:29,359
some very delicious uh venison bordin I
must say

381
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:37,440
» uh some winters but
it's and Dober has a program for uh deer

382
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:43,040
hunting but the percentage of deer that
are ultimately

383
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:47,760
bolden do is a fraction of what it needs
to be to really

384
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:54,240
um according to this fish and wildlife
person to really make a dent in IC

385
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:58,800
population. So that's the tricky part of
it is if you want open space to be

386
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:05,599
enjoyed by everyone, although the deer
hunting season is relatively short,

387
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:12,160
um it would
maybe pose a conflict depending on how

388
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:15,680
widespread you want this program,
but somewhere out there there may be a

389
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:21,280
recording of that. And it was an
excellent presentation.

390
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:26,160
Daryl, I I think I attended that, but uh
we can we can get that person or similar

391
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:29,280
fish and wildlife resource out here
again because

392
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:34,960
» they're constant learning more and more
about uh populations and and strategies.

393
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:40,480
So,
>> that might be something to do.

394
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:45,760
» And is any anyone else on the board
interested in

395
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:51,280
pursuing this topic with open space and
concom? I'm definitely

396
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:56,240
» I'm very interested. But I was going to
comment that one of the other problems

397
00:37:53,040 --> 00:38:01,359
that we're seeing is that the other
vectors include all the mice and the

398
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:07,599
moles and the squirrel, you know, like a
the problem is that the nymphs are

399
00:38:03,839 --> 00:38:13,040
living on a lot of animals. And um it
was kind of scary over 10 years ago when

400
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:18,880
I was reertifying for my boards. The
second time

401
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:24,560
the there was some paper about um robin
in England that was carrying a nymph. It

402
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:28,160
was like really scary because there a
lot of animals that are carrying the

403
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:32,400
ticks and so it's not just limited to
the deer. So and global warming is only

404
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:36,000
making things worse. I don't really
know. It's a little bit scary because

405
00:38:35,451 --> 00:38:41,280
[laughter]
I'm not really sure what to do except

406
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:46,960
I'm secretly hoping that all the wild
turkeys are having feasting on the

407
00:38:43,839 --> 00:38:52,960
ticks, but I [laughter] have no idea.
Anyway,

408
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:57,040
» no, but but with 78% of forest, I I
don't think we would expect anything

409
00:38:54,480 --> 00:39:01,680
else, right? And the neighboring towns,
the forest car is dwindling. So, all the

410
00:38:59,839 --> 00:39:07,680
deer's coming in here.
>> Yeah. That's true. We have the

411
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:14,960
» right. So, so um but that's where we we
choose to live with and and

412
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:19,640
so so so introducing Turkey is maybe a
good idea. I mean I don't know.

413
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:30,160
It it sounds like you are at least
sympathetic with the goal of trying to

414
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:34,800
reduce um the tick population which is a
you know a vector for carrying disease

415
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:39,520
and exactly how that's going to be done.
You might be willing to engage in

416
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:46,480
conversations with open space and town
forest committee to to think about a a

417
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:53,599
possible plan. Is that is that right?
>> Yes. And like Daryl mentioned, we

418
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:59,520
probably should involve Mass Wildlife or
>> some other organization that has more

419
00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:05,760
information and more technical knowledge
about these things.

420
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:11,040
» Um rather than you know I mean we could
spend hours but there are people who've

421
00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:15,359
got PhDs on on controlling ticks perhaps
you know. Well, we have some very good

422
00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:18,400
PhDs on the town forest committee who
are uh very knowledgeable about this.

423
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:22,560
So,
>> Fantastic. Yeah.

424
00:40:19,359 --> 00:40:25,920
» Certainly certainly lead discussions on
deer management and tick reduction

425
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:30,320
strategies,
>> right?

426
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:34,560
» Maybe we should co-host a some kind of a
panel with multiple different

427
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:39,200
specialists. A few years ago, like long
time ago, when my children were very

428
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:43,119
young, there was something like that in
at the high school where they had

429
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:46,640
multiple different specialties. I think
it was much more medically focused, but

430
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:51,680
it didn't matter because it was the same
subject. And I think there's a lot of

431
00:40:49,359 --> 00:40:57,920
interest and obvious and there's a good
reason to be concerned. So,

432
00:40:55,359 --> 00:41:00,480
I mean, I would I could talk for hours,
but I'm sure there are a lot of people

433
00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:06,079
who would be interested. I think it'd be
very valuable even though there's

434
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:13,160
controversy within the medical world.
It's um we we all can see that there's a

435
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,160
problem.

436
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:20,640
» I had another [clears throat] thought
about the water testing and all that. So

437
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:27,599
when we moved into Sherban, I was
extremely concerned about this because

438
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:33,920
coming in from Boston where the public
water is tested very often and you know

439
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:39,760
they have to you know limit they have
very strict limits and all those things.

440
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:47,760
So, so we did do testing for the first 5
years every year just to ensure that

441
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:53,839
that um that you know all the levels
were okay.

442
00:41:49,839 --> 00:42:00,800
Now every area is different. So one of
the questions I kept asking myself was

443
00:41:57,119 --> 00:42:05,520
what are the things I should test for?
Yeah.

444
00:42:02,079 --> 00:42:12,240
um should we and so so we used one of
the testing companies in Norwood to do

445
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:18,880
these tests and I just said do whatever
you can you know [laughter]

446
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:27,359
uh so so so figuring out what to test
for that's that and making a list of

447
00:42:21,599 --> 00:42:31,599
that may be a useful and um
>> useful enterprise

448
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:36,319
» if I could share uh I I als also chair
the groundwater protection committee and

449
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:39,839
we we have all that guidance on our
website.

450
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:45,680
» Oh, you do? Okay. The other
>> Yeah. The the other thought I had was at

451
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:50,240
some point and I was I was I was even
yesterday talking to Mark Oram about

452
00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:55,359
this and Mark said, "Tom, you've spent
so much time and effort and creating

453
00:42:52,640 --> 00:43:02,160
databases of of all these things. I
mean, this is amazing work what you're

454
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:09,760
doing." Um so so um
>> so instead of trying to identify the

455
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:17,760
property or the or the grid or the
location let's say let's take Sherban as

456
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:26,800
a whole and if anybody did water testing
they could fill the data anonymously

457
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:32,000
on in the database. it's got no
implications to their property value.

458
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:38,800
It's got nothing to do with it with any
of this. Uh and then we would have a

459
00:43:35,359 --> 00:43:42,000
database. So So would that would that be
a good way to do it? It's it's a great

460
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:48,800
thing to do and the groundwater
protection committee has learned a lot

461
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:56,000
from two studies that we did uh one uh
with the state uh and uh your board uh

462
00:43:52,480 --> 00:44:01,359
was uh involved with it also for PAS
testing. Unfortunately, it was only done

463
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:05,359
on like 35 properties in town, but we
learned a lot and it was anonym strictly

464
00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:11,200
anonymous,
>> right? And uh we we learned that we have

465
00:44:08,319 --> 00:44:17,839
a PAS issue in this town and and our
levels were much higher than comparable

466
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:27,359
towns. Uh and secondly, we had a uh a
nonprofit in Worcester AAP. They did a

467
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:34,319
uh more simpler broadcast survey of uh
13 common contaminants.

468
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:39,440
Uh that was done on 41 homes in town an
anonymously

469
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:46,560
and from that we learned that 40% of the
private wells uh exceeded one or more of

470
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:53,119
the uh one one or more of the uh
parameters. So we we learned that uh

471
00:44:51,359 --> 00:44:58,319
there's not enough testing going on in
this town and and that

472
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:02,400
there's there's water issues that aren't
aren't being addressed.

473
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:06,319
Right. And and like Daryl said, I think
Daryl made a very important point that

474
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:11,280
that people living here should be
testing. It's not that you test when you

475
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:14,960
leave the town.
It's

476
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:19,680
» I do encourage people. In fact,
>> in fact, our cap is doing another we did

477
00:45:18,079 --> 00:45:25,200
a seminar for the town three or four
years ago. Our cap is doing another one

478
00:45:22,319 --> 00:45:28,160
connected to climate change in Wells and
they're certainly going to be talking

479
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:33,119
about testing. That's actually next
month. And uh I had that posted on the

480
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:40,319
town website. Uh
>> now if we the the other thing is if we

481
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:45,359
could hire one company to to do the
tests

482
00:45:42,079 --> 00:45:51,040
uh they may even be willing to have
someone who would who would transport

483
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,960
the water from the town or there we
could have a collection center or

484
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,839
something.
>> Actually something that other towns have

485
00:45:54,960 --> 00:46:02,000
done,
>> right? the the homeowner pay pays for

486
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:05,359
the test but uh the agent takes the
sample and ships it to the lab.

487
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:09,119
» Yeah.
>> Other towns do that.

488
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:15,119
» So so yeah. So so we have multiple
strategies uh if that is that is the

489
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:23,440
reason for people not taking up testing
but but I would love to do testing at

490
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:28,640
least once a year, right? And maybe a
neighbor a neighborhood gets together

491
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:34,800
and they stagger the testing so that you
know roughly around one test a month in

492
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:40,800
a particular neighborhood
>> you know would would be would be

493
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:44,079
something that that's worth considering
>> right

494
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:48,480
» you know I just remembered I you know
again being the groundwater protection

495
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:53,599
committee uh I get at least once a month
an email from a resident asking with

496
00:46:51,040 --> 00:47:00,000
questions about water testing. And I got
a very unfortunate one uh two months ago

497
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:03,680
for the very first time. I've I've
looked at a lot of water data in this

498
00:47:01,599 --> 00:47:11,520
town, probably hundreds of private
wells. Uh this uh family

499
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:17,599
had nitrate
above the 10 milligrams per mill uh

500
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:23,440
federal and state limit. I've never seen
that in my life. a private well over 10

501
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:27,440
milligrams of nitrate. So,
uh,

502
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:32,319
you know, there there's there's reasons
to be testing. We encourage people to do

503
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:38,400
it, but there's just not enough.
>> Sorry to interrupt. Would this maybe be

504
00:47:35,839 --> 00:47:43,440
better for a future meeting? I just feel
like we're getting really into the

505
00:47:40,319 --> 00:47:47,359
nitty-gritty of everything and I agree
that this is a very important

506
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:51,680
conversation to be having. I just we
could spend hours on this and I I don't

507
00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:55,280
want us to we have some people here for
other things. Um

508
00:47:53,839 --> 00:47:59,440
this may be something we want to
continue or not you know up to up to the

509
00:47:57,839 --> 00:48:05,440
board obviously.
>> Um can I make one last point before we

510
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:11,280
change the subject? The it's
historically the collection of data for

511
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:17,040
public health purposes um required by
law with a transa with transactions is

512
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:20,640
precedented. That's why premarital, you
know, when people get married, they're

513
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:25,760
required to do syphilis testing and
other things because there's a value to

514
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:31,359
the public good when the information is
collected. And so it wouldn't be

515
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:37,760
something that hasn't had a precedent if
we were to to

516
00:48:34,559 --> 00:48:43,920
were to consider um collecting this
information. And the I think the reason

517
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:49,680
that the state for example requires um
upgrading of I don't know a structure to

518
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:54,480
code for example at the time of a
building permit is to force people to

519
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:59,040
follow
to keep things um beneficial to the

520
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:04,720
greater good rather than to just
individuals. And that's I think the the

521
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:09,119
board of health um might need to
consider looking from that perspective

522
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:14,079
because it's not although individuals
might object it may have a benefit to

523
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:22,079
the to the entire town with shared
resources if we were to require it

524
00:49:19,599 --> 00:49:27,800
since
um encouraging people doesn't always

525
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,800
work.

526
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:35,119
That's why making it easy was my
preferred path. But anyway, yes, lot to

527
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:43,520
discuss on that.
>> Let's set aside time to do this um

528
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:50,480
you know in more depth uh
with more people also who would like to

529
00:49:47,119 --> 00:49:55,440
address this particular issue.
Um but this has been good. Uh thank you

530
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:59,839
Tom
all these for illuminating. Thank you.

531
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,640
» Yes.
>> Thanks.

532
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:06,720
» And there's some other things to talk
about around open space, but we'll save

533
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:11,280
that for another time. I'll chat with
you on the side, maybe.

534
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:16,640
» Thank you, Tom. We can connect about
scheduling a time in the future to have

535
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:22,240
this conversation with everybody.
>> Very good. I'll uh I'll wear my

536
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:27,839
groundwater protection hat for that one.
>> Sounds great. Well, we can loop in Sam

537
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:30,880
with his open space hat. Sounds good.
>> Again, thanks very much, folks. We

538
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:34,400
really appreciate it.
>> Thank you guys. Have a good one.

539
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,599
» Good night.
>> Take care.

540
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:44,000
» Good night.
>> Uh so before we move on, because um that

541
00:50:41,359 --> 00:50:47,920
was our one scheduled item, I just want
to see if there's anyone waiting for

542
00:50:45,839 --> 00:50:54,559
something who might be a little shorter.
For example,

543
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:59,920
one Whitney or 51 Western A. Mark. Yeah,
I don't know if uh the person for one

544
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:04,319
Whitney Street's available or the person
for 51 Western A if they're here in the

545
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:10,359
audience.
>> If they are, if they could let me know.

546
00:51:07,359 --> 00:51:10,359
» Yeah.

547
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,359
Before we move on,

548
00:51:16,079 --> 00:51:23,839
I don't see I don't see any hands going
up and I don't hear any

549
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:28,640
» I don't [clears throat] see the
applicant for um one Whitney Street

550
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:33,839
here.
>> Okay.

551
00:51:31,359 --> 00:51:40,200
Or 51 Western
>> or 51 Western. Let me double check.

552
00:51:40,319 --> 00:51:51,280
Okay. So then let's go to um
how about

553
00:51:48,559 --> 00:51:57,280
Meadow Brook Commons
as I did see

554
00:51:54,800 --> 00:52:01,839
Ian Bond
unless they're here for other

555
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:06,559
ventilating topics that we're talking
about.

556
00:52:03,359 --> 00:52:09,839
» No, I am here for Metore Commons. Thank
you.

557
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:18,559
» Okay. All right.
Okay. So, uh I had been checking in with

558
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:24,000
peer reviewers that we the town and the
board of andor the board of health has

559
00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:27,520
used in the past and had reached out. I
have [clears throat] to say kind of

560
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:32,800
return calls I guess just got a little
slower because it was the summer, people

561
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:40,880
are on vacation,
uh other kinds of changes going on. In

562
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:44,480
any case, uh, and so I've been able to
contact,

563
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:49,200
um,
one peer reviewer who we've used before,

564
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:54,640
not always as a peer review, but
certainly as technical support for

565
00:52:50,960 --> 00:53:03,200
specialty issues related to Sherborn,
uh, including water quality testing. And

566
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:11,680
that would be, uh, Drew Smice from TRC.
He's well acquainted with jurborn data

567
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:18,880
conditions here. Um, and he has the
additional uh distinction that I wasn't

568
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:26,480
finding elsewhere of
having worked with quaries

569
00:53:21,839 --> 00:53:31,920
on their um basically rock disruption
activities and the impacts on

570
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:38,960
groundwater and and other kinds of
things. So that was unique in the um

571
00:53:36,319 --> 00:53:44,079
hydrogeeologist world that I was
speaking to. The other

572
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:49,920
one of the other consultants that we had
used in the past was uh Dr. Pete

573
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:55,200
Shanahan of hydroanalysis.
He has

574
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:59,839
largely retired and is not uh even
though we were a client in the past for

575
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:06,720
a number of things. I think concom also
used hydro analysis for um a number of

576
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:13,200
projects, but he had a very strong
recommendation for Hodgej water

577
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:20,720
resources and I did reach out to that
person and spoke

578
00:54:15,599 --> 00:54:24,640
with uh with the owner and
they certainly have the experience in

579
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:30,800
the kinds of things that we might want
to look at including

580
00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:38,720
um the bedrock disruption
in terms of impacts and analysis related

581
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:45,440
to that but not as direct um you know
with both the activity

582
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:52,240
of blasting or drilling or hammering and
um groundwater modeling but objects

583
00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:58,720
water resources does a lot of modeling
and analysis

584
00:54:54,640 --> 00:55:05,119
uh for issues So I both of them seem
very strong. I am waiting to get

585
00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:08,559
a resume from one of them and then we
can distribute that out to the board. So

586
00:55:07,119 --> 00:55:14,160
I don't know if we'll be able to make a
decision this evening. And I also need

587
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:22,240
final kind of hourly rates from them to
make sure it's in line with what uh

588
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:26,960
other rates have been. Um,
so I've had partial information on that

589
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:34,079
and it looks favorable
so far, but I just wanted to have a more

590
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:40,240
formal read on what that would be and I
think they're both

591
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:46,160
uh have time available in the near term.
So that also works out.

592
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:52,960
» Was that Hajes?
H O D G S is that correct? Uh uh sorry I

593
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:58,920
I was using kind of the possessive but
it's hodge water resources.

594
00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:58,920
» Hodgej. Okay.com.

595
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:06,640
» Thank you.
>> Um

596
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:13,040
» okay. But yes,
uh

597
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:18,640
Drew has Smite of TRC has more years in
the field, but

598
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:26,079
uh Hodgej has
uh depth of of analyticals.

599
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:31,680
So they're kind of funible.
Uh and the other option that I will just

600
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:37,599
throw out there for consideration is
that

601
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:43,520
again to keep things moving along um if
there's any constraints on their time.

602
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:48,240
Maybe we
lit them up since they both are tuned

603
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:52,960
into what our issues are from my
discussions with them. So they know what

604
00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:59,119
it is we want to understand which is
narrow fairly narrow. uh is we could

605
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:06,000
take the bedrock person and have them
work on that and we can take Hajj and

606
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:09,000
have them work on on the irrigation
issues.

607
00:57:09,839 --> 00:57:18,480
So,
>> thank you for putting in that um

608
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:25,119
research. It's helpful to have names. I
do have a just a few quick questions.

609
00:57:21,359 --> 00:57:30,079
Um, just one I do want to introduce
David Buckley. He's here with me from

610
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:38,079
Toll Brothers. Jeff couldn't make it
today. And we're also joined by Rick

611
00:57:34,319 --> 00:57:43,760
Roll, um, who is our blasting consultant
as well. So, just wanted to make the

612
00:57:40,799 --> 00:57:50,799
board aware that they're here with me.
Um in terms of the peer review

613
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:58,799
consultant um
>> don't have a preference on either to say

614
00:57:55,200 --> 00:58:02,960
um but I think it'd be helpful if we
start defining the scope of what we're

615
00:58:01,359 --> 00:58:09,599
submitting.
We have talked about submitting

616
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:15,760
uh an earthwork permit, a well permit
and I think there was still

617
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:19,920
uh discussion on if we were formally
submitting an environmental health and

618
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:23,359
impact report. So I the consultant
themselves are going to want to know

619
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:28,000
that as well what they're being scoped
to review.

620
00:58:24,319 --> 00:58:34,160
» Yeah. And then I would say in that idea
of splitting the peer review, I think

621
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:38,240
our preference is always to stay with
one if we can. It's usually makes the

622
00:58:36,319 --> 00:58:42,880
process smoother where you have one
consulting getting to know the

623
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:46,079
documentation, getting to know the site
and the constraints and can look at it

624
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:50,440
holistically.
>> Um, so

625
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:59,200
so I think those are my thoughts on
that. So, we're happy if you want to

626
00:58:56,160 --> 00:59:04,960
prepare a scope for them to respond to
on peer review, but I think we should

627
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:11,200
clarify exactly what we're submitting
tonight as well if we could.

628
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:15,359
» Okay. [clears throat] Uh yeah, I thought
I had

629
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:22,640
to double check whether the email went,
but yes, we do need more information.

630
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:28,240
» Absolutely. uh from you on
um certainly on the bedrock side in

631
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:33,280
particular
>> um

632
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:38,400
» you know how much from where
uh I've seen some information that I

633
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:44,559
guess was part of another report
submitted to mass D possibly but I

634
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:50,160
haven't had a chance to go through that
to see if all of what we need is in

635
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:55,440
there or if that's more broad strokes,
but it seems like there's going to be a

636
00:59:52,319 --> 00:59:58,960
fair amount of material removed. So, you
are correct on the earthworks. It sounds

637
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:05,280
like it's going to be, you know, orders
of magnitude above our 350 cubic yard

638
01:00:03,839 --> 01:00:10,400
kind of metric.
>> Y

639
01:00:05,839 --> 01:00:14,640
» for triggering certain things. Um,
so what's going to be removed from

640
01:00:13,119 --> 01:00:18,559
where?
How's how are the fines or whatever

641
01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:25,440
you'd like to call it going to be
managed on site uh while they're there?

642
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:31,079
Are you planning to use it for fill
anywhere on site

643
01:00:28,079 --> 01:00:31,079
um

644
01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:35,640
for the

645
01:00:36,799 --> 01:00:47,520
season the high groundwater relative to
foundations? And certainly if you're

646
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:52,160
thinking of putting foundations into
bedrock, like carving out bedrock and

647
01:00:49,839 --> 01:00:57,520
dropping in a basement,
um that for drainage, it's I would

648
01:00:55,040 --> 01:01:01,680
assume going to get very difficult. and
our interest in the drainage and the

649
01:00:59,599 --> 01:01:06,880
reason for the two-foot separation
between the bottom of the foundation and

650
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:12,240
historic high groundwater, not just
observed groundwater at any particular

651
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:19,280
time, even if it's in a wet season. Uh
we want we're aiming for historic,

652
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:27,040
especially following drought years, um
is to reduce the chance of mold in

653
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:31,599
people's holes. So that's the point of
that. So if you could think about it

654
01:01:29,359 --> 01:01:38,079
that way. And again, the only time we
have permitted

655
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:46,160
uh foundation to be on bedrock
is when one side of what I'll call the

656
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:52,880
basement was open right out to ground
level. So that then there is the

657
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:57,280
potential for channeling
the redirecting water around the

658
01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:01,680
basement and then out to grade and it's
more gravity a gravity system rather

659
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:07,599
than relying on pumps and more
extraordinary measures especially in

660
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:12,240
spring weather um periods.
>> Yeah. So those are some things that

661
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:18,240
would be helpful to know and you should
know that for the board of health. Uh we

662
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:22,960
would not rely on
uh you know numbers that maybe you've

663
01:02:20,799 --> 01:02:29,280
been collecting along the way about
where that historic high groundwater is.

664
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:36,160
That is something that gets observed by
the agent for the board of health out in

665
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:42,240
the field. So, if you're planning on
doing that, you can do it once by having

666
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:45,040
the agent with you when you're doing it.
Um,

667
01:02:43,599 --> 01:02:52,319
» does that make sense?
>> It does, but I do want to speak about a

668
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:56,720
few things related to that regulation.
Um,

669
01:02:54,160 --> 01:03:03,680
first, it does fall within your
regulations that are applicable to title

670
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:08,720
five systems. So, it's written in on
your additional bylaws for septic

671
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:14,720
systems. This project is served by
municipal sewer, so is not

672
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:18,960
jurisdictional to those specific
requirements.

673
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:26,319
However, Toll Brothers does share your
same concern and understands that a wet

674
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:32,960
basement is going to result in
an unhappy homeowner. Right. This is a

675
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:38,559
development that will be operated by a
homeowners association.

676
01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:43,280
Um, and
they will be installing foundation

677
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:48,319
drains which are open to gravity around
all the perimeters of their foundations.

678
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:53,839
It is their policy to do this whether
the homes are in groundwater or without

679
01:03:52,319 --> 01:03:58,000
groundwater.
Um, so it's something that they've

680
01:03:55,839 --> 01:04:03,839
learned through there are multiple
developments throughout the country that

681
01:03:59,839 --> 01:04:09,359
helps alleviate that concern. So I think
we'd be working through to the same goal

682
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:17,760
on that. Um, we have just found a
different method.

683
01:04:13,119 --> 01:04:26,480
I do have Rick here to speak about just
processing of bedrock on site. The

684
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:33,119
document that was cited was part of our
uh final environmental impact report the

685
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:37,920
FIR that was submitted to the Meepa
office. So this is part of our whole

686
01:04:35,119 --> 01:04:43,520
broader intervation transfer act
permitting that we're going through to

687
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:50,160
be enable us to bring water to the town
municipal water and that was I'd say a

688
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:54,400
quick highle estimate. We will be
fine-tuning

689
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:58,720
our earthwork estimates as we go through
this process. Um, and we'll be

690
01:04:56,799 --> 01:05:05,359
developing kind of like heat maps
showing you in depth of anticipated

691
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:10,400
bedrock cut as well as cut to fill. We
are working through the efficiency of

692
01:05:07,599 --> 01:05:14,640
the site to help try to balance it to
the best we can to minimize that

693
01:05:12,319 --> 01:05:19,920
earthwork. And we're also working with
our neighbor at Koolage Crossing to

694
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:27,200
support them as well where they do have
a need for material. So trying to get

695
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:33,440
that um I'd say more efficient and we
are happy to report those details as we

696
01:05:29,359 --> 01:05:37,760
work through this. Um so I'm hearing
we need to detail more about our

697
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:41,119
earthworks,
>> detail how we're protecting our

698
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:49,119
foundations.
Um I guess just again to my and we're

699
01:05:45,599 --> 01:05:53,119
going to be submitting a
um

700
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:59,359
earthwork earth removal permit as well
as a well permit for the irrigation

701
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:08,520
well. Is it also an environmental health
impact report or are we how is that is

702
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:08,520
that what the board is looking for?

703
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:21,359
it. You know, most
we've done few EHIRs in town, they have

704
01:06:17,359 --> 01:06:25,599
typically been tied to larger or
otherwise unusual septic system

705
01:06:24,079 --> 01:06:32,720
situations.
>> Okay. For the most part the that section

706
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:41,760
is you know some of the requirements
that we had for the EHIR was targeting a

707
01:06:38,079 --> 01:06:48,880
dense you know large scale
of dense effluent plume um from a septic

708
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:53,680
that does not apply here the area of
impact analyses and nitrogen loading

709
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:59,599
calculations that sort of thing and what
the steady state level of nitro rogen

710
01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:07,839
would be in the effluent um and how far
down gradient from the system. Uh so

711
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:13,839
the rest of it has been left to be
determined based on the project because

712
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:18,160
there is such incredible variability
even with our single family homes in

713
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:23,119
town incredible variability from one
property and project to another. So we

714
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:28,480
have tried to make it so it would be
more flexible.

715
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:31,599
I don't even know yet. I I don't except
for the things that we're mentioning

716
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:37,680
that we would like to see and then have
some analyses done on what the potential

717
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:42,160
impact is of the bedrock disruption
um you know might be or what other kind

718
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:47,280
of best management practices we might
want to see or checking along the way.

719
01:07:44,799 --> 01:07:56,559
not sure yet which is that's what the
peer reviewer uh would be helping us

720
01:07:50,079 --> 01:08:02,240
with for practical measures to take
because it's a known phenomenon that

721
01:07:59,359 --> 01:08:07,920
even just drilling a well
uh the disruption of the rock or the

722
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:14,160
bore hole
um can result in elevated levels of

723
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:18,880
various minerals for a relatively short
period. period of time

724
01:08:16,719 --> 01:08:23,759
when installing a well. So, it's not
uncommon to see a spike, but when you're

725
01:08:21,440 --> 01:08:29,359
removing this much, and there have been
other things in Connecticut and some

726
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:35,920
other locations where it's just
suspected that bedrock disruptions can

727
01:08:32,159 --> 01:08:41,359
sometimes result in leeching at a very
high rate and manganese is of particular

728
01:08:39,440 --> 01:08:47,920
concern for the kind of rocks we have
around here. Um

729
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:54,640
so really our regulation very
specifically right now is just that

730
01:08:51,520 --> 01:09:00,239
uh as the the
the applicant will need to alert

731
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:04,159
uh get a list from the assessor's
office. We can give you different

732
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:09,679
guidelines of how to go do that and and
the timing and all the rest and what the

733
01:09:06,239 --> 01:09:13,600
notifications it should say. But
uh you will need to send out

734
01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:19,199
notifications
to

735
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:23,920
property owners within a quarter mile of
not just the center of the site but of

736
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:28,080
the site. So any edge of the site and
the assessor can provide that. They can

737
01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:34,319
figure that out and just give you a
list. And people just need to be

738
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:39,679
notified that if they want before and
after testing pre- project and post

739
01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:44,799
project activities that they need to do
their testing, you know, by such and

740
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:50,239
such a date before you start doing that.
So that's where our regulation falls

741
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:54,199
just so people have something about a
before and after status.

742
01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:02,320
So that's
We're concerned about it. We've seen

743
01:10:00,719 --> 01:10:08,440
things happen in town with a few
projects.

744
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:08,440
So that that's what it's all about.

745
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:18,239
The bedrock disruption specifically the
earth removal

746
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:22,239
that's also a concern because removing
uh certainly I assume you're not going

747
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:26,239
to be removing top soils but we don't
want to see top soils removed because

748
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:32,000
they limit you know the filtering
capacity. um for rainwater before it

749
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:35,000
reaches groundwater and recharges our
supplies.

750
01:10:37,199 --> 01:10:45,440
So I think to respond to your questions
related or your concerns related to

751
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:50,400
blasting,
we do have Rick on the line who can

752
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:53,199
speak to general procedures that will be
followed.

753
01:10:51,679 --> 01:10:57,920
» Um
>> Rick, if you want to jump in here.

754
01:10:55,920 --> 01:11:03,199
» Yes. Um, thank you.
>> Okay. So, you don't have to do every

755
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:07,120
detail because what
>> I'll be using this information and

756
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:11,360
especially because we didn't include
like a presentation on the details.

757
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:15,600
We're going to talk about the peer
reviewer. So, but whatever information

758
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:20,400
you give me, think of like what will
help us

759
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:23,400
uh tightly define the tasks for the peer
reviewer.

760
01:11:24,719 --> 01:11:27,840
Does that make sense?

761
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:35,560
or is that possible?
>> Um

762
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:45,120
I mean you can define you know whether
you're doing a mix of blasting,

763
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:50,719
drilling, hammering,
you know, uh uh what do they call it?

764
01:11:48,239 --> 01:11:57,520
Like expansive grouts or something that
help fracture things

765
01:11:54,000 --> 01:12:01,280
that would be helpful. Um,
no,

766
01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:05,120
» we can certainly include that
information. I guess I just don't want

767
01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:12,560
to
>> delay the process, right? So, I think

768
01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:16,000
» we'll get our materials compiled, but in
the meantime, I do think it would be

769
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:20,560
helpful to have a scope to give those
peer reviewers so we can get them lined

770
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:25,520
up, get them drafting their proposals,
get them under contract, so when our

771
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:31,840
materials are ready, there's not that
>> typical potential like two week to six

772
01:12:29,199 --> 01:12:37,040
week gap of getting somebody else under
contract as well.

773
01:12:34,239 --> 01:12:40,880
Um,
>> I just didn't know whether

774
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:46,320
uh
was it Rick was going to speak about a

775
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:51,600
lot of details that we would be writing
down now or will we get something in

776
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:55,120
writing?
>> You'll absolutely get something in

777
01:12:53,440 --> 01:12:58,480
writing. We just want to,
>> you know, give the board a chance to

778
01:12:57,199 --> 01:13:02,800
hear
>> from our expert how things are going to

779
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:07,760
happen and we can respond to questions
now as well.

780
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:12,480
» Okay. No, and to me that feeds into the
peer reviewer process, but if it was too

781
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:17,520
much detail, I would feel that we should
have listed it differently on our agenda

782
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:22,239
because we are not
for open meeting law supposed to discuss

783
01:13:20,719 --> 01:13:25,920
things that don't fall under our
heading. So that's

784
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:30,159
» okay.
>> Concern. I'm just trying to stay on

785
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:35,760
track on a regulatory
requirement front. But I think

786
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:43,360
describing what's coming um in a way
that we can use that to start prepping

787
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:51,960
the uh both ask more questions of the uh
peer reviewer choices um

788
01:13:47,199 --> 01:13:51,960
and and get that moving would be good.

789
01:13:55,840 --> 01:14:02,280
Agreed. We would like to get it moving.
>> Yeah.

790
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:11,320
» Okay. So, uh
Rick, you would like to speak?

791
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:15,280
» Hello.
>> Hello. Yeah.

792
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:18,000
» Can you hear?
>> Can you hear me?

793
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:24,400
» Absolutely.
>> This is Rick Gro. Uh I'm Richard J. Gro

794
01:14:22,159 --> 01:14:32,719
Technical Services. I'm an industrial
seismologist that is specialized in the

795
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:38,880
uh preliminary uh procedures for
blasting of rock in construction and

796
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:45,280
mining and uh New England. Uh
Massachusetts has a very extensive set

797
01:14:41,679 --> 01:14:52,239
of regulations on both uh the
environmental respect for sites and

798
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:57,360
surroundings and also for the active
drilling and blasting, hammering or

799
01:14:54,800 --> 01:15:01,840
other means of uh the excavation of
rock.

800
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:08,239
uh Massachusetts probably has the most
extensive extensive set of regulations

801
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:15,199
in the nation and it the reason being is
a we have a high water table a high

802
01:15:11,199 --> 01:15:20,640
population density and a lot of rock and
there's a demand for the land that that

803
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:28,400
rock occupies. So uh this is a very
common procedure. It's handled by men

804
01:15:23,440 --> 01:15:33,280
who are uh are highly experienced,
licensed, and tested. And in

805
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:40,320
Massachusetts, they have a zero
tolerance policy on infractions uh

806
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:46,239
related to any aspect of blasting. So,
it is a very very strictly regulated

807
01:15:43,440 --> 01:15:52,159
process. This is not taken lightly by
any regulatory authorities and they are

808
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:58,640
overseen by everybody
uh the food chain and the government. Uh

809
01:15:55,679 --> 01:16:03,360
they have a number of bosses that watch
everything they do and they have to

810
01:16:00,480 --> 01:16:10,560
account for their explosives annually to
the ounce. So there there's very little

811
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:16,400
room wiggle room for the blasters that
do this work. it's done in a very safe

812
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:22,000
and professional manner. That being
said, the first thing that they that you

813
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:25,280
have to do is your preliminary. Uh in
this case, you're very concerned about

814
01:16:23,679 --> 01:16:31,840
groundwater because you're heavily
dependent on it for your drinking water

815
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:36,080
resources. Uh and as such, the site plan
has already incorporated into what what

816
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:40,560
is known as the SWIP, which I'm sure
you're very aware of the SWIP. They've

817
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:47,120
put uh silk fencing all the way around
the site. There's zero discharge. Uh

818
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:51,679
they manage their uh sediment so that it
doesn't leave the site. They manage

819
01:16:49,679 --> 01:16:58,400
storm water so it doesn't leave the
site. And that is a continuously

820
01:16:56,320 --> 01:17:04,719
uh scrutinized
component of the site dur during the

821
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:09,520
entirety of the construction process.
Then what they do is they assess how

822
01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:15,360
much rock has to be excavated. A rock
rock excavation is about 10 times more

823
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:20,480
expensive than soil excavation. So it is
behooves the contractor to minimize rock

824
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:26,560
excavation to the greatest degree
possible by working with existing

825
01:17:23,199 --> 01:17:32,480
grades. And as you've seen their plans
that have been submitted, they have

826
01:17:29,679 --> 01:17:38,080
conformed all of the streetways, the
elevations of the foundations so that

827
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:46,080
they're all relatively similar in depth
throughout the the breadth of the site.

828
01:17:41,440 --> 01:17:52,800
uh and that way they can uh best utilize
the uh material that's excavated to

829
01:17:49,600 --> 01:18:01,040
bring about uh their final grades that
are useful and uh structurally sound. Uh

830
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:05,360
so then after that we have to notify
everybody that they're offered

831
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:10,640
inspections. You're mentioning a quarter
mile radius from the property boundary

832
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:16,159
for water testing. Uh that's actually
not uncommon. Uh more commonly that's

833
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:20,000
done in a mining situation, but it's in
a large construction site, they would

834
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:26,000
also do something of that nature as
well. Uh not everybody will take you up

835
01:18:22,719 --> 01:18:31,040
on it, but again, it's not unheard of.
Uh but in the Commonwealth of

836
01:18:28,159 --> 01:18:36,719
Massachusetts, everybody who owns a home
or any kind of improved property that is

837
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:40,880
within 250 ft of any blast site, any
bore hole drilled with the intention of

838
01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:46,239
loading it with an explosive charge has
to be offered a pre-blast inspection.

839
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:52,719
And this is a regulatory
uh requirement to get a blasting permit.

840
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:57,120
The blasting contractor has to take a
letter from the person that performs the

841
01:18:54,719 --> 01:19:00,719
inspections to the fire department to
demonstrate who was offered an

842
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:06,000
inspection, who had one done, and who
didn't. And at that point, they issue a

843
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:12,480
blasting permit to the contractor for 30
days. Uh there there are many many steps

844
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:17,440
involved in this process and there is an
enormous amount of scrutiny. It's very

845
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:22,560
carefully planned and executed.
uh every foot of hole that they drill

846
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:26,719
into the rock they charge for. Every
ounce of explosive that goes into the

847
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:31,120
ground is charged for. So there are a
lot of people making sure that

848
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:36,480
everything is done to a very tight
specification

849
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:43,679
there. There's very little room for um
for uh or space for second guessing the

850
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:50,400
this is a very very strictly regulated
process. Uh, as far as the continued

851
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:55,679
blasting, while they're blasting, the
contractor has to maintain seismic

852
01:19:53,280 --> 01:20:00,000
monitoring at the closest structure for
every blast. And they have to make that

853
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:05,679
available to the fire department on
request. That's the regulatory authority

854
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:08,880
in town. Uh, within six hours of when
the blast takes place, should the fire

855
01:20:07,440 --> 01:20:14,400
department request it. That's a
regulation as well. So, there's no just

856
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:19,040
taking a measurement and sitting on it.
uh they have to be able to make to

857
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:24,880
produce it quickly. Uh as long as there
are no issues with them exceeding their

858
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:29,840
limits, uh no li uh no problems with
things such as uh fugitive rock material

859
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:34,800
coming off of the site, which is
controlled through the use of uh what

860
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:40,080
are called blasting mats. They weigh
11,000 pounds each and they typically

861
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:45,360
drape about eight to 10 of them over a
small construction blast to limit the

862
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:49,120
material from escaping or becoming
fugitive from the site. It does

863
01:20:47,440 --> 01:20:54,080
ventilate enough that it allows the
gases to escape from the explosion

864
01:20:51,679 --> 01:20:59,360
process, but it acts like a net that
keeps the solid materials from being ex

865
01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:06,719
uh cast off of sight or or even out of
the the blast area. And as long as they

866
01:21:02,719 --> 01:21:12,800
adhere to all of these uh restrictions
for safety and precaution, they are

867
01:21:10,239 --> 01:21:17,040
continuously allowed to blast on the
site. They just go back every 30 days

868
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:21,120
and show demonstrate they've not had any
complaints that are unresolved and

869
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:26,080
they've not had any issues with
exceedences on limits for ground

870
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:30,640
vibration or air blast or any um
fugitive rock issues. At that point, the

871
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:35,280
fire department is compelled to renew
the permit for another 30 days. And that

872
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:42,320
goes on so on and so forth until the
completion of the project. Uh, and

873
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:49,360
that's basically what what we do.
This is a this is a standard procedure

874
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:54,800
that is done in Massachusetts every day
all over the state. Uh, there's 11

875
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:59,199
million pounds of explosives used in the
Commonwealth of Massachusetts every

876
01:21:56,560 --> 01:22:04,000
year. So there's a lot of blasting going
on. They've got this right, especially

877
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:07,320
in this state. There very little to be
worried about.

878
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:16,320
» Uh well, we're we are aware that when it
comes to blasting that the fire

879
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:20,560
department is really the lead for that.
Um, however,

880
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:28,000
uh, per our regulation, I guess you've
seen, we will require SDS's for whatever

881
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:32,239
blasting agents are going to be used.
That will help us develop the

882
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:37,280
notification that you will be mailing
out to people, informing them about what

883
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:44,400
they might want to test their water for.
And we sounds like there's uh the

884
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:51,040
inspections I assume of like people's
foundations or whatever. Uh the pre

885
01:22:48,159 --> 01:22:57,360
blasting contractor that goes out. I
assume that's structural investigations.

886
01:22:53,840 --> 01:23:02,800
But for the board of health, we're just
um preparing people with that kind of

887
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:10,000
baseline of what their water quality was
pre activity. Uh so that

888
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:15,040
is really just mailing and informing
people that it's coming is the

889
01:23:12,239 --> 01:23:19,520
requirement that we have for you. Um and
then we will be happy to hear about any

890
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:25,440
kind of good management practices that
would prevent the leeching

891
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:29,920
that's leeching of minerals from and
what do you refer to the material fines

892
01:23:28,239 --> 01:23:35,040
or
debris or I have no what it's called in

893
01:23:32,639 --> 01:23:40,800
your field.
Well, uh, as far as the explosives

894
01:23:38,719 --> 01:23:47,440
products, the vast majority of the
explosives products are comprised of

895
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:53,360
ammonium, nitrate, fuel oil, and water.
Uh, that's called a bulk explosive

896
01:23:49,679 --> 01:23:58,880
product. Uh, they may or may not be
allowed to use those on the site

897
01:23:56,400 --> 01:24:03,760
depending on what what is discussed and
what is finally agreed. Uh they don't

898
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:08,719
use any perchlorate containing
explosives in Massachusetts.

899
01:24:06,159 --> 01:24:14,239
Uh the expansive grout that you
mentioned has also been barred in

900
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:20,000
Massachusetts because a it doesn't work
and b if it's misused it can cause uh

901
01:24:17,679 --> 01:24:25,840
shards of rock to be cast into the air
unexpectedly because it locks up against

902
01:24:22,719 --> 01:24:30,080
the collar or the hole and creates a a
bursting effect on the stone that

903
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:34,960
confines the material at the collar of
the hole. uh as far as hammering is

904
01:24:33,440 --> 01:24:40,560
concerned. That's also what we call
secondary breakage uh takes a lot longer

905
01:24:38,159 --> 01:24:45,600
to do secondary breakage than uh
blasting breakage, primary breakage. And

906
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:50,000
typically they try to design every blast
so that the rock they need to get out of

907
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:55,440
the way is out of the way once because
the blasting contractor does not get

908
01:24:52,400 --> 01:25:00,543
paid to break the rock twice. He does
that at his own expense. So they have to

909
01:24:58,480 --> 01:25:04,880
make sure that their
[cough and clears throat] designs

910
01:25:02,239 --> 01:25:10,199
safely and effectively break the rock to
the satisfaction of the general

911
01:25:07,199 --> 01:25:10,199
contractor.

912
01:25:10,368 --> 01:25:17,199
[clears throat] And in doing so, the
explosives products are entirely

913
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:22,960
consumed in the explosion process in the
bar hole. And what you were left with is

914
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:29,360
carbon dioxide, water, and some NOX
gases which escaped the site.

915
01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:35,679
Excuse me.
So there there should not be any

916
01:25:32,639 --> 01:25:41,360
leeching of explosives products after
the blasting takes place. That is all

917
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:48,000
evaporated with the explosion process.
There should not be um any chemical

918
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:52,800
reactions with the rock as a result of
the explosion process.

919
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:56,159
The rock is not going to change in
composition simply because it's

920
01:25:54,560 --> 01:26:00,960
disenfranchised.
And whatever chem what ground chemistry

921
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:06,080
you have out there now, you will have
after the blasting is done because it's

922
01:26:03,679 --> 01:26:10,000
still the same rock. It's still the same
overburden and it's still the same

923
01:26:08,159 --> 01:26:15,800
groundwater that you've had there all
along. They're not bringing anything in

924
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:15,800
extra.

925
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:25,040
Uh we understand that it's more that the
surface area of material that is exposed

926
01:26:22,639 --> 01:26:32,239
to rainwater
um there's just more leeching potential

927
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:36,880
if if the material is something that
would uh

928
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:42,719
» well be you're you're making a point
that it's the surface active area of the

929
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:48,159
of the newly broken rock that is
>> a potential leeching hack. hazard, but

930
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:53,440
it's the same rock that they that it's
sitting on top of there. There's no

931
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:58,560
difference in the chemistry of the rock
and there's no chem difference in the

932
01:26:55,440 --> 01:27:02,120
chemistry of the of the groundwater or
the precipitation.

933
01:27:02,159 --> 01:27:11,679
Where where's that change come from? Can
you identify the a source of new other

934
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:17,760
than the explosive product that's used
to do the breakage material, but

935
01:27:14,320 --> 01:27:22,239
As I started out in the beginning,
it's even it's acknowledged even for

936
01:27:20,159 --> 01:27:33,760
drilling wells
in bedrock that it's not uncommon to see

937
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:38,719
a temporary rise in mineral content in
the water that is coming because you've

938
01:27:36,719 --> 01:27:44,800
just chopped through rock and exposed
more surface and little pieces are

939
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:50,320
present. That's that's documented. So
this is just a very similar thing. It's

940
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:55,120
not just a bore hole. It's a large area
with a bunch of smaller pieces of rock

941
01:27:52,880 --> 01:28:00,719
with
I'll be dramatic. Okay, let's say there

942
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:06,719
salts in the rock. Certainly that would
change if it's embedded and encased in

943
01:28:03,440 --> 01:28:12,000
in rock versus exposed on the surface of
the rock. lots more surface

944
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:15,440
» as a result of being broken up. And I
don't know what kind of size you get

945
01:28:13,679 --> 01:28:22,000
down to with blasting or if it's a
complete mix of

946
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:25,840
from dust to huge chunks. Um I don't
know. I haven't witnessed

947
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:31,840
» related question
>> lasting up close. So

948
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:37,840
» ask a related question. our concern and
again you don't have to we're just

949
01:28:34,639 --> 01:28:42,800
trying to provide data to the people
around it. So that's why you have to get

950
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:48,400
a permit from us so that we can monitor
that to get the permit you have to

951
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:53,199
notify the neighbors within a quarter
mile to do testing of their border.

952
01:28:51,440 --> 01:29:00,639
» Can I ask a question which is related to
the point you're making Darl? Yeah.

953
01:28:56,560 --> 01:29:05,360
» U this is for our speaker. Um
you said in your presentation which

954
01:29:02,480 --> 01:29:12,159
thank you very much is excellent. Um
that the material is removed from the

955
01:29:08,719 --> 01:29:18,080
site and confined. How do you do that
when the water table is high?

956
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:24,560
How do you cope?
>> Because the blasting causes the rock

957
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:30,800
which contains lead, manganesees, other
heavy metals and other elements into

958
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:36,159
very small particles which can which is
how it gets into the overburden.

959
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:41,520
» Well, first of all, the the rock that
you're talking about this is volcanic

960
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:45,760
rock. uh principally
is an orthite,

961
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:52,560
silica,
um some other other minerals [snorts]

962
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:59,520
aside from that that that have all been
extruded from mantle. Uh the if there's

963
01:29:57,440 --> 01:30:05,280
lead in the rock, there's it's going to
have been there all along. It's not

964
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:09,600
going it's a blast is not going to
produce lead in rock. They, as far as I

965
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:13,920
know, they don't even use lead in any of
the explosive products.

966
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:22,719
» No, no. The rock that you're breaking
apart has heavy metals in it, manganese,

967
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:30,719
lead, and other materials, which is the
reason that we, the board of health, are

968
01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:35,840
require some of these this information.
And I was curious because obviously you

969
01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:42,960
have a lot of experience with it. What
how you compensate for the material? How

970
01:30:40,080 --> 01:30:48,159
do you keep it confined to the site when
the water table is high? Because you're

971
01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:52,960
blasting the rock apart into little
pieces that are not found in nature,

972
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:57,440
which is the reason that these heavy
metals are released is because these are

973
01:30:55,440 --> 01:31:01,920
» what you're referring to is re is known
as mobility.

974
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:05,679
uh the the individual constituents of
the rock you are afraid are becoming

975
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:10,560
more mobile increasing their
concentration in the groundwater.

976
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:15,520
However, what first of all the the
material once it flows through the

977
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:19,440
groundwater or through the ground, it is
coming in contact with other rocks and

978
01:31:17,440 --> 01:31:23,840
it is being filtered back out just the
same way that uh vados water water

979
01:31:22,159 --> 01:31:29,040
percolating through soil from
precipitation is scrubbed by the soil

980
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:35,040
and the rock that it flows through. It's
not go it's not going to create this uh

981
01:31:32,159 --> 01:31:39,520
pool of contaminate contaminant that's
been leeched out of the rock and taken

982
01:31:36,719 --> 01:31:44,080
off site. First of all, the uh site is
designed so that water doesn't flow on

983
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:50,560
the surface offsite anywhere. It's
called 100% capture. The second thing is

984
01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:57,360
is that you have water that's already in
the ground when there's a high water

985
01:31:52,159 --> 01:32:01,920
table that is putting uh resistance to
any more water flowing into the ground.

986
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:07,040
It's more likely to flow off the surface
or just stay wherever it's being

987
01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:11,920
retained to like within the sweat. So
there's there's not going to be this uh

988
01:32:09,760 --> 01:32:17,679
spike in any minerals. and you take the
the readings before and after in the

989
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:22,159
local wells to demonstrate that that's a
that's a common uh that's a common

990
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:26,719
procedure
>> that there's a little out outside of

991
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:32,880
America but in other countries where
mining activities are quite common.

992
01:32:29,440 --> 01:32:38,880
There is evidence of blasting and other
mining activities that when the rock was

993
01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:43,679
broken into small pieces, it has
contaminated the local groundwater,

994
01:32:41,440 --> 01:32:48,320
which is the reason we're asking these
questions because we are trying to

995
01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:55,120
protect the drinking water. But when the
bro the rock is broken apart by the

996
01:32:51,120 --> 01:33:03,920
blasting procedure, the very small
particles leech or leak and they can um

997
01:33:00,159 --> 01:33:08,560
get into the overburden in quantities
which would not be otherwise found in

998
01:33:06,159 --> 01:33:12,400
nature. And so that's how they get into
the drinking water. So that's why I was

999
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:18,239
asking how you you said you have 100%
capture. How do you accomplish that?

1000
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:22,800
They put a a ring of hay bales and silt
fence entirely around the site before

1001
01:33:20,480 --> 01:33:29,600
they start digging. That's the first
thing that's done. They It's the It's a

1002
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:34,960
regulation. I believe it's federal that
they do that. It's not just state. It's

1003
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:42,080
the they have to capture all their water
and contain it on site that and in doing

1004
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:48,080
so a lot of these problems are
mitigated. Uh the second thing about

1005
01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:52,400
this is is that if there were any of
these contaminants in the rock, they

1006
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:57,040
would have been liberated by the act of
the people who drilled the wells and

1007
01:33:55,040 --> 01:34:01,880
then drew water out of them daily for
years and consumed them. They

1008
01:34:10,320 --> 01:34:16,560
site. And the reason being is is that
they

1009
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:23,040
to the rock that they were blasted out
of than to the surroundings that lay

1010
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:27,520
outside the site area.
Okay. All right. Let's not go down this

1011
01:34:25,120 --> 01:34:34,560
path much more. We've just seen with
projects in town that the the rise

1012
01:34:32,480 --> 01:34:39,679
manganesees has been the problem that
has showed up on a number of occasions

1013
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:44,080
and it was dramatic and it impacted the
use of the water. So we're just trying

1014
01:34:42,480 --> 01:34:47,600
to
make provisions for that. So

1015
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:51,040
» yeah,
>> we're good. It sounds like you're going

1016
01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:56,960
to do some protective things. I just
want to mention when he's talking about

1017
01:34:52,800 --> 01:35:05,199
SWIP that stands for SWPP which is a
storm water pollution prevention plan

1018
01:35:00,719 --> 01:35:10,159
that uh state and federal regulations
have requirements for different

1019
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:17,760
activities that you need to control
storm water quality and construction is

1020
01:35:13,520 --> 01:35:22,800
one category of that that is covered
there industrial various industrial ag

1021
01:35:20,080 --> 01:35:28,320
agricultural categories etc. So that's
what the SWIP is. Um so storm water

1022
01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:32,239
pollution prevention plan which it
sounds like. All right. So you're going

1023
01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:38,800
to work on that. Just a quick question.
It sounds like do you typically do

1024
01:35:34,960 --> 01:35:42,480
testing of uh some wells in the area
beforehand?

1025
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:50,400
Because our regulation is to provide
that in the absence of that being done

1026
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:57,280
but we haven't had blasting before. So,
uh, is there any,

1027
01:35:52,880 --> 01:36:02,800
you know, if you do that as a routine
measure for your projects?

1028
01:36:00,800 --> 01:36:08,480
» Here, here's how a pre-blast inspection
is handled. It is a visual inspection of

1029
01:36:05,199 --> 01:36:14,000
the property and you can look at the
wellhead, you can look at the filtration

1030
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:18,560
system in the house, run the water,
things like that as a visual inspection.

1031
01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:25,520
If you're going to do a
>> but it's not it's not a take a sample

1032
01:36:22,159 --> 01:36:29,040
and bring it to a lab for analysis.
Well, that's if you're just if you're

1033
01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:32,880
just incorporating
>> overlapping requirements that you're

1034
01:36:31,199 --> 01:36:35,840
already doing something that we're going
to then

1035
01:36:34,080 --> 01:36:40,400
» right if there's a water well on the
property

1036
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:46,239
if there's a water well on the property
the person doing the pre-blast

1037
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:51,600
inspection has the uh has an obligation
a professional obligation to look for

1038
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:56,239
whatever he can see of that system and
to document its condition.

1039
01:36:54,159 --> 01:37:00,560
That's part of the regulation. The
regulation is written in the language of

1040
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:06,320
the regulation such that it says it
understands that certain things are not

1041
01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:10,960
readily visible to the inspector because
the inspector is saddled with doing

1042
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:18,560
everything within 250 ft of a blast
site. it the job might be enormous

1043
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:25,119
already and it's just not physically um
um or not functionally convenient to the

1044
01:37:22,239 --> 01:37:32,480
contractor to do that much work.
However, that's where when they specify

1045
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:36,639
a water test be done beforehand, you can
you can take care of that at the same

1046
01:37:34,320 --> 01:37:42,639
time that you take care of the pre-blast
or you can have two separate entities do

1047
01:37:38,639 --> 01:37:49,520
it as well. I've seen it done both ways.
>> Uh so just so we're clear, our

1048
01:37:46,239 --> 01:37:56,080
regulation does not require that the
applicant carry out the testing of water

1049
01:37:52,639 --> 01:38:00,719
in all of those homes. We just require
that folks get notified so they can go

1050
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:04,480
get their water tested.
>> Yeah. That that that we would not be

1051
01:38:02,639 --> 01:38:09,040
expect we would not anticipate doing
anything more than our regulations as

1052
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:13,760
there as we were just saying. Normally
it's a visualized inspection. I mean

1053
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:17,520
we've we've done blasting numerous times
on many many different job sites. So you

1054
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:23,760
know we would we would not be involved
in that. That's not typical.

1055
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:28,480
» Okay. But you do do the structural
inspections of people's home

1056
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:32,320
» as as we just mentioned as a requirement
>> before you start and after you.

1057
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:38,400
» Yep. That that that's a requirement.
It's 250 ft. Um, it's not a quarter mile

1058
01:38:36,320 --> 01:38:43,119
for for for structural, but you know,
that's that's regulations.

1059
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:47,600
» Are you aware, if I may, Darl, are you
aware of our regulations? Uh, I'd

1060
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:53,520
suggest you look at them for bedrock
disruption. It's 305-3.10

1061
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:58,400
in our regulations and that will help
guide you to what you need to do in my

1062
01:38:55,840 --> 01:39:01,400
view. Thank you, Darl.
>> Yep.

1063
01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:10,239
And as I said, we will prepare version
of the the letter that you send out. You

1064
01:39:06,639 --> 01:39:18,880
just are responsible for sending it out.
Okay. Um All right. So, this uh has

1065
01:39:15,119 --> 01:39:25,199
explained a fair amount that you will be
capturing material

1066
01:39:22,080 --> 01:39:30,560
again. Are you planning on reusing any
of that removed material as still

1067
01:39:27,760 --> 01:39:33,760
elsewhere?
or you don't have to tell me all that

1068
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:37,040
now, but if you could include some
information in whatever you write up.

1069
01:39:36,159 --> 01:39:41,760
» Yeah, absolutely.
>> So, we understand the movement of

1070
01:39:38,639 --> 01:39:45,280
materials around um the property and it
sounds like it'll be across the two

1071
01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:50,719
properties and that's fine. We do kind
of think of this they're very different

1072
01:39:47,440 --> 01:39:57,159
projects, but they are intertwined.
Um

1073
01:39:52,239 --> 01:39:57,159
so, that would be helpful.

1074
01:39:59,679 --> 01:40:05,840
Okay.
>> Okay.

1075
01:40:02,480 --> 01:40:13,920
» So, we
>> um so we are submitting the well permit,

1076
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:21,199
the earth works and then is the board
then considering granting us a waiver to

1077
01:40:16,400 --> 01:40:27,760
the EHIR or what's the path for that?
>> I think requiring the EHIR because it's

1078
01:40:24,800 --> 01:40:33,520
such a big project. Okay. Just wanted a
yes or no so we noted how to proceed.

1079
01:40:30,400 --> 01:40:39,119
» The vote might board might vote on it.
>> Could we

1080
01:40:35,679 --> 01:40:44,000
do that today?
Uh,

1081
01:40:41,119 --> 01:40:50,159
as I was saying,
we've had very few EHIRs. They've been

1082
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:58,239
more formulaic when it's the septic
system that we're on top of. But this is

1083
01:40:54,800 --> 01:41:08,000
something entirely new for Sherborn
the kind of a project. So I don't know

1084
01:41:04,719 --> 01:41:12,480
that I mean I have not yet come up with
something that I would specify uh but

1085
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:17,280
I'm only one board member. other board
members could speak up about what they

1086
01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:23,280
think might be on the horizon, but I
don't think we know enough to specify

1087
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:28,719
what those requirements would be. We've
talked about some of the bedrock.

1088
01:41:25,679 --> 01:41:35,840
Certainly again would like the the peer
reviewer to take a look at um you know

1089
01:41:32,239 --> 01:41:40,080
since they are familiar uh presumably at
least one and I think it would be

1090
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:45,119
essential to have that particular peer
reviewer for that expertise alone um and

1091
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:52,320
familiarity
of just verifying about the procedures

1092
01:41:50,480 --> 01:42:01,760
that you're going to have in place for
managing that and minimizing this

1093
01:41:56,560 --> 01:42:07,920
potential leeching of materials from
material that has been broken down into

1094
01:42:04,639 --> 01:42:14,400
a greater surface area. So,
uh that's that is part of what why we

1095
01:42:11,280 --> 01:42:18,440
want that um regular consultant with
that expertise. So,

1096
01:42:18,719 --> 01:42:28,800
but it may be covered mostly covered by
the other rules and regulations that are

1097
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:34,880
in place. And that goes for storm water
uh also to some degree since we have

1098
01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:40,159
often relied on what planning board and
conservation commission are able to

1099
01:42:37,440 --> 01:42:43,199
accomplish. like to remind
>> interest

1100
01:42:41,119 --> 01:42:49,600
» at our first meeting that there was an
agreeance to

1101
01:42:46,080 --> 01:42:54,080
defer to the other boards to the
planning board as well as the

1102
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:57,360
conservation remote uh conservation
commission for

1103
01:42:55,600 --> 01:43:02,000
» the
um storm water regulations but I'm

1104
01:43:00,239 --> 01:43:05,360
interrupting and Mark has his hand up as
well.

1105
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:10,320
Go ahead, Mark.
>> Darl, all I was going to explain is that

1106
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:14,679
whatever the board decides, the
regulation I cited 305-310,

1107
01:43:15,679 --> 01:43:24,239
that's in the EHIR regulations. So to
eliminate the EHI regulations could

1108
01:43:22,320 --> 01:43:29,520
possibly eliminate the need to do
bedrock disruption process processing

1109
01:43:27,520 --> 01:43:35,760
with what was mentioned earlier you
knowifying near butters a quarter mile

1110
01:43:32,159 --> 01:43:40,960
around and so forth. So, I'd suggest the
board if you're going to eliminate the

1111
01:43:37,679 --> 01:43:46,719
EHIR, which I don't suggest unless it's
duplication for other boards, is that

1112
01:43:44,000 --> 01:43:53,199
you at least designate the bedrock
disruption as being required. Thank you.

1113
01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:58,800
» Okay. And I guess right, I'm looking at
our regulations differently and I view

1114
01:43:55,440 --> 01:44:04,719
that as a requirement. The EHR was for
like extra steps of analysis.

1115
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:10,480
um
try to predict

1116
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:15,280
impacts of a project and again that
prediction of impacts from a large

1117
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:21,679
septic system there's plenty of examples
about the modeling mod flow all the rest

1118
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:28,639
you know so there are methods for that
this one there are

1119
01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:35,600
less clear methods for predicting what
the u mineral content in bedrock

1120
01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:39,360
fractures will be post having blasted
apart

1121
01:44:37,440 --> 01:44:44,880
uh rock above that bedrock and the
bedrock fractures. So I don't that's the

1122
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:49,040
part I'm not sure we can wholly
accomplish but there are other

1123
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:58,159
approaches such as managing how one does
it uh judicious judicious use of

1124
01:44:54,400 --> 01:45:02,800
blasting agents. Um, so there there may
be other things that we would require,

1125
01:45:00,159 --> 01:45:09,400
but we don't have enough information yet
to specify that. Not like we're trying

1126
01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:09,400
to save up and have something

1127
01:45:09,840 --> 01:45:17,920
a monumental surprise later on. We're
really trying to make something

1128
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:24,159
practical for this project. And again,
we're just starting to get going on more

1129
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:29,760
of the information about the details.
I do appreciate the practical approach.

1130
01:45:26,880 --> 01:45:34,159
This is the third meeting where we've
asked this question and we are trying we

1131
01:45:32,000 --> 01:45:37,440
just want to work with the board. So I
do see Rebecca has her hand

1132
01:45:35,440 --> 01:45:41,679
» but we had also asked for more
information about

1133
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:46,800
» how much was going to be disrupted and
how and we did not know that a report

1134
01:45:44,159 --> 01:45:51,360
had gone to NEPA that contained some of
that information until just a few days

1135
01:45:49,119 --> 01:45:56,719
ago. So,
we didn't know that that we were

1136
01:45:54,960 --> 01:46:04,840
supposed to go find it to that other
route. We didn't get any emails that I

1137
01:45:59,600 --> 01:46:04,840
know of containing that. So,

1138
01:46:06,400 --> 01:46:12,719
must Sarah unless we got something
earlier, but I was watching for

1139
01:46:10,719 --> 01:46:18,880
information to come in and watching for
what the irrigation plan was going to

1140
01:46:14,719 --> 01:46:22,320
be. I gather that was also in the FEIR
um to some degree. I don't know if it

1141
01:46:20,719 --> 01:46:31,119
has all the details that we'd want to
see, but that's that's what we needed to

1142
01:46:26,000 --> 01:46:35,080
be able to start to formulate. So,
we just hadn't seen it.

1143
01:46:35,840 --> 01:46:42,400
» Rebecca,
>> I'd love to have been specifying it now.

1144
01:46:40,719 --> 01:46:49,520
» Yeah, I agree that it would be really
helpful for us. Part of the reason not

1145
01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:55,360
only would it be beneficial for you to
design the project for the site, but

1146
01:46:52,000 --> 01:47:00,440
also it would be beneficial for us
because of our responsibility to the

1147
01:46:57,440 --> 01:47:00,440
abutters.

1148
01:47:04,239 --> 01:47:13,920
So we'll do our best to take the
information if you can.

1149
01:47:10,239 --> 01:47:19,760
Uh, the FBI I think is fairly tightful.
Do you think the FBI has all of the

1150
01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:27,639
information that we need?
>> The FBI does not address blasting.

1151
01:47:24,639 --> 01:47:27,639
» Okay.

1152
01:47:34,639 --> 01:47:44,560
So, it would be helpful for us to have
that. Uh is there

1153
01:47:41,040 --> 01:47:48,639
how extensive is the irrigation
plan?

1154
01:47:46,639 --> 01:47:53,679
It addresses irrigation I think in a
very high level way. We were scoped by

1155
01:47:51,119 --> 01:47:57,440
the water resource commission, the state
authority that will approve the inter

1156
01:47:55,280 --> 01:48:01,600
race and transfer act to explain the
relationship of the private wells that

1157
01:47:59,920 --> 01:48:07,840
the
um applicant has installed and how those

1158
01:48:04,320 --> 01:48:11,920
will be controlled or acknowledged when
we have drought conditions and how we

1159
01:48:09,679 --> 01:48:19,000
are minimizing the irrigation flow. But
it does not um

1160
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:19,000
quantify

1161
01:48:19,360 --> 01:48:31,360
exactly projected flows. Um,
>> and are is it clear to you that because

1162
01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:36,880
those wells have been drilled, but they
are not regulated by Mass D because

1163
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:41,520
you're not using them for public water
supply

1164
01:48:38,560 --> 01:48:44,480
that it's under our jurisdiction.
>> Yes.

1165
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:48,239
» And we don't permit we don't permit
wells for irrigation unless for

1166
01:48:46,719 --> 01:48:52,000
agricultural
>> did. So,

1167
01:48:49,679 --> 01:48:57,360
» can you point me to the regulation that
does have that prohibition? Um, I have

1168
01:48:55,600 --> 01:49:00,800
been through your regulations. I have
actually engaged council on this

1169
01:48:59,119 --> 01:49:07,280
question because I've heard it multiple
times presented in the town and from

1170
01:49:04,480 --> 01:49:11,920
what I can see, you have a de facto
prohibition on irrigation where you

1171
01:49:09,119 --> 01:49:18,080
allow one well per property and that
well cannot serve both portable and

1172
01:49:15,679 --> 01:49:27,360
irrigation demand. And in this case
where we have our boil source

1173
01:49:23,040 --> 01:49:34,800
served by the water district that we are
creating and bringing in and investing

1174
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:39,840
$9 million to provide to the town. Um we
don't rely on our wells for irrigation.

1175
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:45,280
So I just I haven't found that
regulation. I've heard it stated. I just

1176
01:49:42,239 --> 01:49:50,040
haven't found it.
Uh I don't know the numbering offand

1177
01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:59,840
Mark if you have it at your at your uh
fingertips but we will send you that. Um

1178
01:49:57,040 --> 01:50:02,840
it's also
uh

1179
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:09,920
if it's not explicitly
written out it's how we have applied it.

1180
01:50:07,679 --> 01:50:14,560
We made it clear in our documentation
that

1181
01:50:12,239 --> 01:50:19,280
the need for irrigation has to be
justified to us. The burden of proof is

1182
01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:22,960
on the applicant.
Yeah,

1183
01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:31,440
» we have treated wells on people's
properties as supplying their needs for

1184
01:50:27,199 --> 01:50:37,199
um for the dwelling and people obviously
do some watering to some degree, but we

1185
01:50:34,239 --> 01:50:44,000
don't allow a second well on the concept
of somehow there's magically more water

1186
01:50:41,840 --> 01:50:49,920
uh because you've sunk a second well and
that water wouldn't otherwise be used uh

1187
01:50:46,719 --> 01:50:55,760
for the drinking water of your neighbor.
Um, we view it as a shared resource. Uh,

1188
01:50:53,199 --> 01:51:00,639
we're working off of bedrock fractures,
not easily mapped, not hard to know what

1189
01:50:58,480 --> 01:51:05,360
the quantities and yields are.
Certainly, different parts of town have

1190
01:51:02,560 --> 01:51:14,159
different yields from their wells. Uh,
so it was a a measure to

1191
01:51:09,440 --> 01:51:20,880
get people more aware of water use. And
from what I saw the number of

1192
01:51:17,360 --> 01:51:25,840
something like 12 to 18,000 I don't
remember exactly gallons a day

1193
01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:33,040
anticipated being used by the system.
That is essentially for irrigation

1194
01:51:29,520 --> 01:51:38,560
a loss of groundwater that's going to
affect that transpirate that's going to

1195
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:42,000
be gone and not be like a septic system
where

1196
01:51:40,159 --> 01:51:47,360
we somewhat have a closed cycle of
pulling water out of the ground and most

1197
01:51:43,760 --> 01:51:52,000
of it goes back in by a septic system.
So that is our concern because we have

1198
01:51:49,599 --> 01:51:56,639
seen a lowering of water levels in
bedrock fractures. People have been

1199
01:51:54,560 --> 01:52:03,040
deepening their wells lately or having
to drill new wells or

1200
01:52:00,159 --> 01:52:08,000
make taking other measures to get more
water, but deepening has

1201
01:52:06,239 --> 01:52:13,599
and certainly happening with greater
frequency of waves. Um,

1202
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:19,520
and that's our concern. We only have
fractures. We don't have any major

1203
01:52:15,360 --> 01:52:25,280
aquifers in town that we can tap into.
And we don't

1204
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:30,920
I I won't say we because the whole board
hasn't deliberated, but I'll tell you my

1205
01:52:27,119 --> 01:52:30,920
perspective is that

1206
01:52:32,159 --> 01:52:39,520
certainly when one we're okay with
establishment watering to establish any

1207
01:52:37,599 --> 01:52:45,040
vegetation that you're planting that I
know will be required probably by concom

1208
01:52:43,119 --> 01:52:49,639
um in certain areas of the property
because of the wetlands etc. But

1209
01:52:50,320 --> 01:52:57,119
mostly
people's landscape is surviving just

1210
01:52:54,719 --> 01:53:02,880
fine without being irrigated for the
most part in town. So

1211
01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:05,599
irrigation systems lead to a lot of
overwatering

1212
01:53:04,400 --> 01:53:09,199
um frequently.
>> Darl, I see Mark has his hand up as

1213
01:53:08,000 --> 01:53:14,719
well. Can we
>> maybe give him a chance to speak too?

1214
01:53:13,760 --> 01:53:20,998
» Sure.
>> Thank you. Um, thank you for your help.

1215
01:53:17,199 --> 01:53:20,998
I am chair. [laughter]

1216
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:28,159
But if if I'm becoming repetitious, then
I'd happily switch over. Take it away,

1217
01:53:27,119 --> 01:53:35,119
Mark.
>> Okay. I No, one second.

1218
01:53:32,719 --> 01:53:39,119
» I always I always await my chair to
direct me when I can speak. It's the

1219
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:43,920
chair that runs the meeting. Uh, in
respect to your question, Darl, it's

1220
01:53:40,960 --> 01:53:48,960
305-2.7.
the amount of wells allowed. So, it

1221
01:53:46,960 --> 01:53:52,400
specifies everything you just mentioned,
including that even a business, a

1222
01:53:50,639 --> 01:53:57,599
multiple lot to treat it as a single
lot. So, um I'd suggest your lawyers and

1223
01:53:55,599 --> 01:54:02,159
you're welcome to call us, too, but you
review that with your lawyers. That

1224
01:53:59,280 --> 01:54:06,360
regulation 3052.7
talks about addition.

1225
01:54:10,480 --> 01:54:16,440
Looks like we just uh lost Mark.

1226
01:54:16,800 --> 01:54:26,480
Um I know that he is in a in a location
with not the best internet connection.

1227
01:54:24,480 --> 01:54:30,800
So
um Darl, how would you like to proceed

1228
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:36,880
here?
>> Uh I think we can keep going. Um you

1229
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:40,800
know, he's not part of our quorum and I
assume he'll try to call back in. So, if

1230
01:54:38,880 --> 01:54:44,480
the co-hosts can just keep an eye on
when he is trying to get into the

1231
01:54:43,119 --> 01:54:50,199
meeting.
>> Of course.

1232
01:54:46,639 --> 01:54:50,199
» Oh, here he is.

1233
01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:09,520
» I do also just want to make a note of
the time. Um, we do have a number of

1234
01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:14,320
other items.
>> It is getting late

1235
01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:17,840
» and I apologize to everyone.
I apologize. I apologize for the

1236
01:55:16,320 --> 01:55:22,080
disconnection. I don't know how much you
heard. I'm just referring everyone to

1237
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:27,119
305-2.7.
And if any questions come out about or

1238
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:31,119
please continue to keep um our whole
staff in the email loop as well because

1239
01:55:28,960 --> 01:55:37,920
I'm not getting all the emails. I
appreciate that as well. Thank you all.

1240
01:55:34,719 --> 01:55:46,199
» Okay. So the general message is we're
not keen on seeing that kind of volume

1241
01:55:40,560 --> 01:55:46,199
loss of water from our shared resource

1242
01:55:46,719 --> 01:55:55,679
for large scale irrigation that is
more cosmetic

1243
01:55:53,280 --> 01:56:01,440
for establishment. Again establishment
is a different thing. One must water to

1244
01:55:57,920 --> 01:56:07,199
get the plants started
but after that we don't want to see it.

1245
01:56:03,440 --> 01:56:10,199
And in droughts, we don't want to see
watering.

1246
01:56:12,400 --> 01:56:19,920
That would be my guidance at the moment.
But I've spoken plenty. Uh are there

1247
01:56:18,320 --> 01:56:25,320
other board members who would like to
weigh in on any concerns?

1248
01:56:26,880 --> 01:56:35,280
» Yeah, I have just just listening to the
presentation that was made. Um

1249
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:40,400
I I know it was brought up that I can't
remember how many tons of explosives

1250
01:56:36,960 --> 01:56:45,520
were used for um this kind of work in
Massachusetts, but um the one thing you

1251
01:56:43,599 --> 01:56:50,639
really have to remember is that the town
is very unique. I'm sure only a small

1252
01:56:47,920 --> 01:56:57,599
fraction of those explosives were used
in towns that are are similar in a

1253
01:56:54,239 --> 01:57:01,599
profile to to Sherbet. Um,
so that's something that that I think

1254
01:57:00,159 --> 01:57:07,520
really needs to be looked at. And then
the other thing is I' I'd love to try to

1255
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:12,960
find or see what studies have been made
um

1256
01:57:10,239 --> 01:57:19,360
with towns similar to Sherwood. In other
words, having wellwater and seeing

1257
01:57:17,199 --> 01:57:23,440
what was the impact. Did an impact
happen immediately? Did something happen

1258
01:57:21,040 --> 01:57:29,520
two years down the road? Um, things like
that. It's just just more information

1259
01:57:25,920 --> 01:57:35,360
that I'd like to see. Um it again, we we
we live in a fairly unique community in

1260
01:57:33,440 --> 01:57:41,119
Massachusetts. There just aren't too
many towns that are 100% private. Well,

1261
01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:45,719
um and the impact of something like like
this could could be substantial.

1262
01:57:48,719 --> 01:57:58,639
I will add that when they
found out the the issues with

1263
01:57:54,320 --> 01:58:03,679
perchlorate, um, mask just had all the
public water supplies across the state

1264
01:58:01,599 --> 01:58:10,960
run per chlorate tests so they could get
a handle on what the distribution was.

1265
01:58:06,239 --> 01:58:19,840
that was tightly tied to um where
blasting was done, where you know the

1266
01:58:14,000 --> 01:58:27,199
cuts of 495 through uh bedrock outcrops
um say in the northwest of Boston. uh

1267
01:58:24,320 --> 01:58:33,520
high levels there. It was tied to
particular companies and

1268
01:58:31,599 --> 01:58:37,599
uh the highest levels were tied to
particular companies where they think

1269
01:58:35,119 --> 01:58:42,480
they weren't using the uh blasting
agents as efficiently

1270
01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:47,840
uh so that they might be destroyed
through use. I don't know what if the

1271
01:58:45,360 --> 01:58:52,400
dynamics of chlorate are different from
whatever um

1272
01:58:50,560 --> 01:58:57,760
ammonium nitrate or whatever else is
being used. uh in

1273
01:58:55,520 --> 01:59:03,599
the agents that will be used for this
project, but

1274
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:07,599
does it really all go to NOx uh and and
enter the atmosphere and does it

1275
01:59:05,599 --> 01:59:11,360
precipitate back out on the ground? If
it's raining, does that change the

1276
01:59:09,280 --> 01:59:20,119
dynamic? Anyway, we're still concerned
about nitro rising nitrogen levels and

1277
01:59:14,320 --> 01:59:20,119
groundwater. So, these are our concerns.

1278
01:59:20,639 --> 01:59:29,360
Do you have any comments?
>> Yes, there perchlorate containing

1279
01:59:25,760 --> 01:59:35,199
explosives are illegal in Massachusetts.
They they have to submit their MSDS

1280
01:59:33,280 --> 01:59:41,679
sheets on every product they're using
when they apply for a permit. And if it

1281
01:59:38,800 --> 01:59:47,280
cannot contain any perchlorates because
there was an issue with the con uh the

1282
01:59:44,880 --> 01:59:52,480
presence of perchlorates in groundwater
about 20 years ago and it was from a

1283
01:59:50,400 --> 01:59:56,320
project in the Blackstone Valley Mall I
believe. So yeah, you're you're not

1284
01:59:54,800 --> 02:00:00,560
going to see perchlorate containing
explosives. As far as nitrate is

1285
01:59:58,880 --> 02:00:05,920
concerned, you have a far bigger problem
with nitrate coming out of uh septic

1286
02:00:03,360 --> 02:00:12,639
systems, golf courses,
um even automobile exhaust than you do

1287
02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:17,599
from remnant nitrate out of an explosive
because the explosive is entirely

1288
02:00:14,480 --> 02:00:22,800
consumed. The nitrate is the oxidizer
that makes the nitrogen or makes the

1289
02:00:19,760 --> 02:00:28,159
explosive burn. So that's where the
nitrate goes. So you there's not going

1290
02:00:25,520 --> 02:00:34,080
to be any pollution from either of those
that you have to worry about. Plus that

1291
02:00:30,480 --> 02:00:39,440
these are very shallow cuts.
The deepest they're going to blast is

1292
02:00:35,920 --> 02:00:45,920
about 20 feet or less. The kind of sites
that you're worried about are big pits.

1293
02:00:41,920 --> 02:00:51,920
They are 50, 60, even 100 feet deep
and have far broader and higher uses of

1294
02:00:49,760 --> 02:00:56,639
explosives than you will see on a site
like this. This site would use a

1295
02:00:54,719 --> 02:01:04,040
relatively minor amount of explosives
compared to the uh what's done on large

1296
02:00:59,599 --> 02:01:04,040
road cuts and quaries.

1297
02:01:06,480 --> 02:01:16,800
» Okay. And um are there diagrams in the
FIR showing this? Because

1298
02:01:13,119 --> 02:01:24,800
until you just mentioned 20 ft, I had no
idea of the extent.

1299
02:01:21,679 --> 02:01:30,400
Well, uh, as far as the site plans,
>> uh, the site plans demonstrate the

1300
02:01:27,599 --> 02:01:34,480
existing ground surface and where all of
the utilities are going, so you can see

1301
02:01:32,880 --> 02:01:39,760
exactly how deep they're going to have
to dig.

1302
02:01:37,520 --> 02:01:45,040
Uh the the vast majority of this site
has is the flank of a uh solid rock

1303
02:01:43,040 --> 02:01:50,159
landform
and the areas that are closest to where

1304
02:01:47,679 --> 02:01:54,239
they're to the surrounding homes are
going to have little or no blasting

1305
02:01:52,159 --> 02:01:59,840
because that material is all natural
overburden. That's all sand and gravel

1306
02:01:57,119 --> 02:02:03,280
down at the flanks of of this landform.
Everything in the flat the valley flats

1307
02:02:01,679 --> 02:02:07,800
is four feet of sand and then another
four feet of gravel underneath it.

1308
02:02:09,760 --> 02:02:18,159
Okay,
not the best filtering, I assume.

1309
02:02:15,360 --> 02:02:26,920
Anyway, okay, fine. We'll have the peer
reviewers work on that. Um, Bose,

1310
02:02:23,119 --> 02:02:26,920
any comments from you?

1311
02:02:27,199 --> 02:02:32,159
No,
>> I think we've raised we've raised a lot

1312
02:02:29,599 --> 02:02:39,760
of interesting questions and Richard's
so confident in making the point that

1313
02:02:35,679 --> 02:02:45,280
there is no potential threat but do you
have say a site where you did something

1314
02:02:43,040 --> 02:02:50,320
similar and you've tested water around
the area and there were no changes.

1315
02:02:47,920 --> 02:02:55,199
Um do you have data that you can show
us?

1316
02:02:52,080 --> 02:02:59,840
uh like like what Steve suggested, you
know, is there historic data? Do do

1317
02:02:56,960 --> 02:03:03,840
these changes happen within 6 months or
within a few years?

1318
02:03:02,480 --> 02:03:09,199
So,
>> so, so these these these are the

1319
02:03:06,000 --> 02:03:15,440
concerns and as you expose more rock,
there's more area for water to interact

1320
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:20,480
with rock and and the point that Daryl
was making was that there is more

1321
02:03:18,480 --> 02:03:25,280
opportunities for leeching into
groundwater.

1322
02:03:22,480 --> 02:03:30,800
C can I just may though you you're you
process a construction site, you dig

1323
02:03:28,000 --> 02:03:35,119
down, you expose your rock, you blast,
you either remove it or you process it

1324
02:03:32,719 --> 02:03:41,280
and you reuse it on site and then you
grade it with normal wood fill and then

1325
02:03:38,560 --> 02:03:47,199
you build a home there. It it's not like
you're leaving a blasted ledge sitting

1326
02:03:43,520 --> 02:03:51,280
there for years and even then it it's
the same rock. But it's not just sitting

1327
02:03:48,960 --> 02:03:54,719
there. I know you have this, you may
have this visual, but it it filled over

1328
02:03:54,639 --> 02:04:00,000
and
>> filled. David, what what you're

1329
02:03:57,520 --> 02:04:03,440
suggesting is actually even more
terrifying

1330
02:04:01,679 --> 02:04:09,440
because you're pulling this rock out
that was sitting hidden from water for

1331
02:04:07,280 --> 02:04:15,840
maybe centuries,
right? And no escape route for minerals

1332
02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:20,880
that were contained in that rock into
groundwater unless there was a fisher

1333
02:04:18,400 --> 02:04:27,119
there. And now you're breaking it into
small pieces and spreading it all over

1334
02:04:22,880 --> 02:04:31,280
the place. So that is an even terrifying
situation, isn't it?

1335
02:04:29,360 --> 02:04:36,080
» That same rock has been withering
indefinitely in the past.

1336
02:04:34,080 --> 02:04:40,719
» And
yeah, this is this is an endless

1337
02:04:37,599 --> 02:04:45,119
question uh endless discussion. But but
you know uh you see where we're coming

1338
02:04:43,280 --> 02:04:48,400
from though from
>> Yeah.

1339
02:04:45,440 --> 02:04:54,159
» Yeah. And we will, this is why we will
have the peer reviewer who can spend the

1340
02:04:51,040 --> 02:04:58,000
time with us to explain it or allay our
concerns. And

1341
02:04:56,800 --> 02:05:02,800
so [snorts]
I think

1342
02:05:01,119 --> 02:05:07,280
I think you've heard the kind of
information that can be helpful to us.

1343
02:05:05,360 --> 02:05:14,000
If you can pull that together, we'll do
our best to turn around quickly and ask

1344
02:05:10,880 --> 02:05:17,360
more questions if we see gaps
to

1345
02:05:15,599 --> 02:05:22,159
formulate something for the peer
reviewers to get them going. Peer

1346
02:05:19,840 --> 02:05:28,000
reviewer or
um

1347
02:05:23,760 --> 02:05:32,719
and and just start working on this. Are
there issues or not? We're just trying

1348
02:05:29,760 --> 02:05:40,159
to be precautionary because once things
go wrong, it's too late.

1349
02:05:35,760 --> 02:05:46,080
and our job is to just um
protect our water resources essentially.

1350
02:05:42,320 --> 02:05:49,760
It's our primary job. So,
um,

1351
02:05:48,159 --> 02:05:52,960
and
so as you're pulling together

1352
02:05:51,360 --> 02:05:56,960
information about what we've been
talking about, the things that you think

1353
02:05:54,800 --> 02:06:03,599
will address the concerns that we've
expressed, if you have more questions

1354
02:06:00,000 --> 02:06:11,840
for us about, you know, do you want this
or not, please do just send an email or

1355
02:06:06,880 --> 02:06:17,119
something, let us know. And uh I'll also
be asking, you know, is there anyone

1356
02:06:14,480 --> 02:06:20,159
else on the board who would like to help
with

1357
02:06:18,719 --> 02:06:24,000
review? Well, I mean, we should all be
reviewing the information as it comes

1358
02:06:21,840 --> 02:06:28,880
in, but we can't all talk about unless
we're in an open meeting. So, I don't

1359
02:06:26,560 --> 02:06:35,159
know if there's anyone in particular who
wants to

1360
02:06:31,199 --> 02:06:35,159
uh communicate on this

1361
02:06:38,320 --> 02:06:46,280
or you can think about it.
>> Yeah, we'll get back to you.

1362
02:06:42,719 --> 02:06:46,280
» Whether you have time

1363
02:06:46,719 --> 02:06:52,599
to do it and when Julie's back, we'll
check with her, too.

1364
02:06:53,520 --> 02:06:58,040
So,
um,

1365
02:07:00,159 --> 02:07:09,520
so these are probably not all the things
that you wanted to hear this evening,

1366
02:07:03,920 --> 02:07:14,320
but Liz and and Rick, uh,
do you have any other

1367
02:07:11,760 --> 02:07:19,679
questions for us now? Otherwise, we
still have a

1368
02:07:16,159 --> 02:07:26,480
» no work to get done tonight.
I think just when is the

1369
02:07:24,239 --> 02:07:31,599
next meeting and getting us on the
agenda for that as well.

1370
02:07:28,960 --> 02:07:33,920
» You're right. So, um
>> September second.

1371
02:07:33,679 --> 02:07:38,880
» Yeah.
>> Yeah, that's what I thought. Great.

1372
02:07:36,000 --> 02:07:45,840
September 2nd. Um we will be working in
the meantime. We can have a subgroup of

1373
02:07:41,760 --> 02:07:48,239
two work on something to to you know
>> okay

1374
02:07:46,480 --> 02:07:53,920
» get some information back but we can't
go beyond to again for open meeting law.

1375
02:07:51,920 --> 02:07:57,760
So
>> you could put a there is a north shore

1376
02:07:56,079 --> 02:08:01,440
water sewer district commission meeting
cited for that as well. So if we could

1377
02:07:59,760 --> 02:08:05,040
just work together so we're on the
agendas at split times that would be

1378
02:08:03,280 --> 02:08:08,560
helpful.
>> Okay.

1379
02:08:06,079 --> 02:08:11,199
» I can coordinate with them.
>> Appreciate it. Thank you.

1380
02:08:09,920 --> 02:08:13,760
» Worse.
>> Okay.

1381
02:08:13,199 --> 02:08:17,840
» All right.
>> All right. Well, thank you very much

1382
02:08:15,199 --> 02:08:23,840
though for bringing uh this was helpful
to at least get I feel like I know much

1383
02:08:21,760 --> 02:08:30,159
more about what the project might be
looking like. But um again, if you can

1384
02:08:28,320 --> 02:08:35,360
point us right to what we should be
looking at in the documents

1385
02:08:33,199 --> 02:08:40,800
um
>> we'll help get you what you need.

1386
02:08:38,719 --> 02:08:44,079
Um, you know, and I appreciate the
board's help and appreciate your

1387
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:47,760
concerns. I definitely believe, you
know, a peer reviewer will significantly

1388
02:08:46,000 --> 02:08:52,159
help you with your process here. We are
eager to get them on board so that you

1389
02:08:49,520 --> 02:08:56,159
can help get the guidance that you need.
Um,

1390
02:08:53,760 --> 02:09:00,079
» you know, we are advancing numerous
other approvals right now. So, as you

1391
02:08:58,159 --> 02:09:04,320
can understand, you know, that that's
part and part of why, you know, a little

1392
02:09:02,320 --> 02:09:07,760
bit of the I would say frustration, the
urgency in our voice of trying to make

1393
02:09:06,079 --> 02:09:12,239
sure we sort of advance things,
understanding what our requirements are,

1394
02:09:10,159 --> 02:09:16,079
which is why we'd ask the question about
EHIR, if it's required or not, because

1395
02:09:14,239 --> 02:09:19,520
if it is, we just want to advance it and
get it going. If it's not, then yeah,

1396
02:09:18,320 --> 02:09:22,880
it's not. We we just
>> No. And I don't want to hold you up on

1397
02:09:20,880 --> 02:09:27,599
that, but I also don't want to have you
doing things that aren't necess.

1398
02:09:25,119 --> 02:09:31,119
» We we don't either. We we agree. I just
think for us and to give you some

1399
02:09:29,360 --> 02:09:34,079
perspective from from our end, timing is
very critical. There there's a lot of

1400
02:09:32,560 --> 02:09:38,719
moving pieces and a lot of different
state entities that we're up against

1401
02:09:36,159 --> 02:09:42,560
some other timelines and that's why we
need to advance all the different

1402
02:09:40,400 --> 02:09:49,440
channels. Your your board being one of
them um expeditiously and we're

1403
02:09:45,599 --> 02:09:53,520
concerned that we don't know the permit
that we or not process what we need to

1404
02:09:51,920 --> 02:09:56,520
submit I guess to you that that's what
we're

1405
02:09:56,560 --> 02:10:03,679
pressing.
>> Yes. Yes, I can appreciate that. So, uh,

1406
02:10:01,119 --> 02:10:06,719
as someone who works on permitting for
industrial facilities, I understand that

1407
02:10:06,320 --> 02:10:11,760
stress.
>> You understand?

1408
02:10:08,159 --> 02:10:17,920
So things that would really help is if
you're going to stay on attempting to

1409
02:10:15,360 --> 02:10:23,119
get irrigation,
if you can please,

1410
02:10:20,560 --> 02:10:28,000
you will shorten your process if you can
orient it right from the start to be

1411
02:10:25,360 --> 02:10:33,760
something that is merely to address
establishment of plants. That will be

1412
02:10:31,040 --> 02:10:39,520
different for us.
uh other board you know members had

1413
02:10:36,000 --> 02:10:45,920
expressed that at a prior meeting. So
um but a a largecale

1414
02:10:42,880 --> 02:10:51,599
constantly used irrigation system is
going to be very difficult

1415
02:10:49,119 --> 02:11:00,079
for us given what we see happening with
the water resources in town as

1416
02:10:56,239 --> 02:11:05,840
the town grows and as climate changes or
whatever the reasons are or frankly

1417
02:11:01,920 --> 02:11:12,480
anywhere on the planet practically where
groundwater is being pumped. pumped up

1418
02:11:09,040 --> 02:11:18,079
to the surface for use. There is never
the recovery in the groundwater levels.

1419
02:11:15,520 --> 02:11:25,199
Uh wells just continue to be deepened
phenomenon across the world. So um

1420
02:11:22,480 --> 02:11:30,159
that's what we're trying to avoid.
It would be outrageously expensive for

1421
02:11:28,159 --> 02:11:36,639
us to run
water from the MW

1422
02:11:33,440 --> 02:11:42,000
into town. We have 60 miles of roads and
there's a lot of bedrock.

1423
02:11:39,040 --> 02:11:46,400
So it is and a relatively small
population

1424
02:11:44,079 --> 02:11:52,639
and frankly not everybody can be tapping
into the MWA system. So we're trying to

1425
02:11:49,520 --> 02:11:58,159
be as sustainable as we can be. We
practice it for the most part folks in

1426
02:11:54,880 --> 02:12:05,440
town based on the behaviors we see in
town. We'd like you to be part of that.

1427
02:12:01,679 --> 02:12:05,440
I guess that's the pitch.

1428
02:12:05,920 --> 02:12:16,840
So, um, the more you can do to get to
that, that will make the process go

1429
02:12:12,159 --> 02:12:16,840
easier so and faster.

1430
02:12:22,880 --> 02:12:32,800
Oh. Um, but again, all with questions,
ideas, links to things we've discussed,

1431
02:12:29,599 --> 02:12:36,199
whatever else, please feel free to to
send it over.

1432
02:12:40,400 --> 02:12:51,360
Okay.
Um, and I'm not hearing anything else

1433
02:12:45,679 --> 02:12:57,280
from anyone on the the project team. So,
I guess we're going to move on to

1434
02:12:54,000 --> 02:13:02,400
another agenda item.
Unless you want to,

1435
02:13:00,719 --> 02:13:07,119
Liz, I see that you're off.
>> Just going to say thank you.

1436
02:13:06,079 --> 02:13:15,239
» Okay.
>> Yeah. Thank you for uh coming to inform

1437
02:13:10,719 --> 02:13:15,239
us. That was very helpful.

1438
02:13:15,440 --> 02:13:18,440
Okay.

1439
02:13:21,280 --> 02:13:24,280
All right.

1440
02:13:24,639 --> 02:13:28,040
Get to

1441
02:13:28,320 --> 02:13:31,320
Okay.

1442
02:13:34,639 --> 02:13:38,599
Okay. Let's do

1443
02:13:40,560 --> 02:13:48,239
one. Whitney Mark.
>> Sure. And I apologize. I know I my uh

1444
02:13:46,079 --> 02:13:54,239
audio for some reason doesn't work on my
cell phone versus the computer, but the

1445
02:13:51,040 --> 02:13:59,040
computer just lost power. Uh one Whitney
Street. Uh the board had reviewed it and

1446
02:13:56,560 --> 02:14:04,880
asked the question. Uh just to give you
a little history, this is uh the site

1447
02:14:02,079 --> 02:14:09,440
that has a septic tank and a cesspool
after it. Uh so no design flow.

1448
02:14:07,760 --> 02:14:14,960
» We're going by the four bedroomedroom
assessment that was done on that house.

1449
02:14:12,159 --> 02:14:23,360
And um they were planning to put just a
master bathroom in the second floor. And

1450
02:14:19,520 --> 02:14:29,040
they have a sun porch below it that's
conditioned. And we've been told now

1451
02:14:26,400 --> 02:14:35,520
that they can't do the bathroom upstairs
without reconstructing the sun room

1452
02:14:32,960 --> 02:14:42,320
that's conditioned on the first floor, I
guess, due to support issues. And the

1453
02:14:38,000 --> 02:14:46,159
board did note that that wouldn't be um
the that there would be a need for

1454
02:14:44,159 --> 02:14:51,599
another decision by the board if that
was the case. And that's why I'm

1455
02:14:47,679 --> 02:14:55,040
bringing it back to the board
>> and

1456
02:14:53,599 --> 02:15:00,880
» because now they're
>> D have any specific guidance?

1457
02:14:58,560 --> 02:15:04,880
» Yeah, they did. They did. They Yeah. And
they said as long as you're not

1458
02:15:02,000 --> 02:15:09,040
constructing a room, a bathroom is not
considered a room. That bathroom would

1459
02:15:06,719 --> 02:15:13,199
be okay, the master bathroom on that
second floor bedroom.

1460
02:15:10,719 --> 02:15:20,800
» But this is a room. So that changes the
whole scenario of when DP wants the

1461
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:27,440
local entities to require updates to the
septic system is when you're redoing a a

1462
02:15:24,560 --> 02:15:30,800
room. So and this is a room and that's
the issue.

1463
02:15:28,079 --> 02:15:34,159
» Yeah,
>> they put it in our laps unfortunately

1464
02:15:33,440 --> 02:15:38,719
and
>> they're tough decisions at the local

1465
02:15:36,000 --> 02:15:43,199
level. the state had originally just
said cesspools not allowed then we

1466
02:15:41,360 --> 02:15:46,800
wouldn't even be here they would have to
update this

1467
02:15:44,800 --> 02:15:50,159
» but that's not the case and so we have
to take a case by case and it's usually

1468
02:15:48,639 --> 02:15:55,840
during the process of a building
application so now that

1469
02:15:52,639 --> 02:16:01,520
» the sun room has to be reconstructed
that is indeed where it triggers the

1470
02:15:58,560 --> 02:16:05,239
septic system to be upgraded unless the
board feels differently

1471
02:16:05,679 --> 02:16:15,679
Okay. So from D's perspective and and
this is in a different territory than

1472
02:16:11,280 --> 02:16:22,880
the um that flowchart that we have uh
about percentage

1473
02:16:18,800 --> 02:16:27,760
um of house expansion or remodeling that
goes on and how much starts to look like

1474
02:16:25,920 --> 02:16:32,399
new.
>> We don't necessarily just apply because

1475
02:16:29,840 --> 02:16:36,639
this wouldn't meet that 50% I don't
think for this. No, this this would be

1476
02:16:34,559 --> 02:16:40,559
okay with the 50%. What it is that
reconstructing a

1477
02:16:38,240 --> 02:16:45,439
» sun room that's conditioned and to
reconstruct a room

1478
02:16:42,719 --> 02:16:49,599
» creates now and triggers the need for an
upgrade to the septic system. Since one,

1479
02:16:47,519 --> 02:16:54,160
we don't know the design flow. We don't
even know if that sun room, even if it

1480
02:16:52,160 --> 02:16:58,399
falls into the assessment of the four
bedroomedroom, if it would even be a

1481
02:16:56,479 --> 02:17:03,120
septic system that can support four
bedrooms. That that's the unknown

1482
02:17:00,639 --> 02:17:07,519
because it's accessessful without
>> with a tank in front but without any

1483
02:17:05,200 --> 02:17:11,359
design flow. So is it a two-bedroom? Is
it a threebedroom? Are we allowing them

1484
02:17:09,280 --> 02:17:16,080
to recondition a room that may not even
fit into the room count of the unknown

1485
02:17:13,439 --> 02:17:20,800
design flow? That's the reasoning behind
it. I know it's hard for homeowners to

1486
02:17:18,880 --> 02:17:26,160
understand this, but it's the
unfortunately it's the objective of D to

1487
02:17:23,920 --> 02:17:30,399
upgrade septic systems at the point of
building construction of rooms. The

1488
02:17:28,719 --> 02:17:34,000
bathroom was different, but this is a
room and it's a reconstruction of a room

1489
02:17:32,399 --> 02:17:39,599
that we don't even know if the design
flow will allow for it. So that's that's

1490
02:17:36,880 --> 02:17:44,559
where this stands.
>> Now, are they going to reconstruct?

1491
02:17:42,000 --> 02:17:47,920
» Very tough.
>> Are they going to reconstruct the

1492
02:17:46,160 --> 02:17:53,599
foundation, too?
>> Yeah, they have to do that. And I think

1493
02:17:50,639 --> 02:17:57,760
they were hoping they could keep the sun
room so there would be no need to

1494
02:17:56,000 --> 02:18:04,000
reconstruct it because they understood
the consequences if that was the case.

1495
02:18:00,880 --> 02:18:09,040
But they came back to us to explain the
owner uh came back to explain they do

1496
02:18:06,639 --> 02:18:14,399
need to reconstruct the room, the first
floor sun room that's conditioned.

1497
02:18:11,840 --> 02:18:18,000
» Yeah. For safety, I would assume.
>> Yeah. I don't think they can hold on to

1498
02:18:16,080 --> 02:18:22,000
what's Yeah. I don't think they can hold
on to what's there uh the way they're

1499
02:18:20,479 --> 02:18:28,319
proposing it because uh
>> No, but if they if they build rebuild

1500
02:18:24,559 --> 02:18:33,439
the sun room, is that okay?
>> No. According to the state, that's not

1501
02:18:30,960 --> 02:18:37,359
okay because that's considered a room.
>> And we don't know the design flow of the

1502
02:18:36,319 --> 02:18:40,080
septic system.
>> Okay.

1503
02:18:37,679 --> 02:18:44,639
» And rooms come into the bedroom count
totally. Uh it's you add up the number

1504
02:18:42,479 --> 02:18:49,200
of rooms and then divide by two and
that's how you determine the bedroom

1505
02:18:46,080 --> 02:18:53,200
count. If we had a design flow for this
property, it'd be a different story if

1506
02:18:51,679 --> 02:18:58,399
it was a fourbedroom and they were just
reconstructing this room.

1507
02:18:55,840 --> 02:19:03,280
Uh but we don't have a design flow. So
we really don't know if this room would

1508
02:19:00,319 --> 02:19:08,960
even fit into the design flow of what's
there because cesspools have no design

1509
02:19:06,080 --> 02:19:15,280
flow. They never did per test. They
never did any deep holes to consider

1510
02:19:12,719 --> 02:19:21,040
groundwater. And so that's why you sell
the house. So, and this one is a

1511
02:19:18,000 --> 02:19:25,359
cesspool which had a septic tank put in
front of it years ago, but that didn't

1512
02:19:22,960 --> 02:19:30,000
give it any design flow. The original
system is a cesspool with no design flow

1513
02:19:28,559 --> 02:19:34,800
if that helps.
>> So, so Mark, when you say

1514
02:19:31,679 --> 02:19:38,160
» and it's interesting, so Oh, go ahead.
Sorry.

1515
02:19:35,599 --> 02:19:42,000
» Oh, just real quick. So, so Mark, when
you say upgrade, um, that means a whole

1516
02:19:40,719 --> 02:19:46,559
new septic, correct?
>> That is correct. A replacement septic

1517
02:19:43,840 --> 02:19:51,520
system. That would suffice. They may
need waiverss, but that would um be a

1518
02:19:49,359 --> 02:19:55,200
replacement septic system to answer your
question. Even for one, even for one

1519
02:19:54,000 --> 02:19:59,920
additional room
>> with the elimination of the the cess

1520
02:19:57,920 --> 02:20:02,720
poolool and the septic that was put in
front of them.

1521
02:20:00,880 --> 02:20:05,840
» Yeah, the septic tank they might be able
to save. I don't think it's a two

1522
02:20:04,319 --> 02:20:12,880
compartment
and that's not the expensive part of a

1523
02:20:10,319 --> 02:20:17,280
septic system. It's the the designing
doing the soil testing and designing a

1524
02:20:14,960 --> 02:20:21,439
septic system to be the appropriate
distance from groundwater and to be

1525
02:20:18,880 --> 02:20:26,640
designed large enough to meet the perk
rate. So if the perk rates a very high

1526
02:20:23,520 --> 02:20:30,560
perk rate, slow perk rate, then the
system has to be larger. If it's a

1527
02:20:28,240 --> 02:20:36,080
faster perk rate, then it it doesn't
have to be as large. Uh but that is it's

1528
02:20:33,280 --> 02:20:41,600
it's a it's not an easy it's not an easy
uh overview with the homeowners and and

1529
02:20:39,040 --> 02:20:45,040
you know but it is the objective of D to
get sessables out of the environment

1530
02:20:43,040 --> 02:20:46,880
because they're not environmentally
sound.

1531
02:20:46,160 --> 02:20:51,040
» Yeah.
>> Thanks Mark.

1532
02:20:48,800 --> 02:20:56,000
» You're welcome Steve.
>> So the the sun room is currently

1533
02:20:53,840 --> 02:20:59,840
conditioned right?
>> I believe so. Yes.

1534
02:20:57,600 --> 02:21:03,680
» Yeah. So, we're it is really just
replacing

1535
02:21:01,359 --> 02:21:08,080
the room as is, you know, with a better
foundation,

1536
02:21:05,439 --> 02:21:13,200
but that's still
not in D's model because of it being

1537
02:21:10,319 --> 02:21:17,760
assessful. It was an assess pool,
>> that would be okay. Okay.

1538
02:21:15,120 --> 02:21:20,800
» So, that's kind of one step here. And
then um

1539
02:21:18,640 --> 02:21:25,680
» and I yeah
>> if they

1540
02:21:23,359 --> 02:21:29,520
integrated that room into the rest of
the first floor somehow

1541
02:21:28,720 --> 02:21:33,760
» possibility
>> bigger room. I don't remember I don't

1542
02:21:32,080 --> 02:21:39,680
have it in front of me now what it
looked like. Um

1543
02:21:35,760 --> 02:21:43,600
» exactly. I remember vaguely, but
>> yeah, they could

1544
02:21:40,399 --> 02:21:48,560
» if they changed that
>> the threeseason room, would that

1545
02:21:46,000 --> 02:21:52,160
eliminate it as a room?
>> Yes. Yes, it would, Darl. That's

1546
02:21:50,240 --> 02:21:57,680
» I'm trying to think of options for them.
>> No, I that's a very good option to not

1547
02:21:54,880 --> 02:22:02,960
condition the sun room would be better.
You know, it would be creating a sun

1548
02:22:00,000 --> 02:22:07,840
room, seasonal sun room, so there's no
conditioning. So, it wouldn't be

1549
02:22:04,240 --> 02:22:13,200
considered a habitable room uh per DP.
But if it's a habitable room, um that's

1550
02:22:10,880 --> 02:22:19,280
a whole different story. And you know,
we just saw this on another property in

1551
02:22:16,000 --> 02:22:24,880
town where we uh the board saw two
systems and but at least they had well,

1552
02:22:22,640 --> 02:22:28,319
one was put in not correctly, but we you
know, but we knew the design flow of the

1553
02:22:26,880 --> 02:22:33,280
other one. So, it's a little different.
This one we don't have any records of

1554
02:22:30,560 --> 02:22:37,920
design flow. So that that's the whole
issue here is can this system support a

1555
02:22:36,000 --> 02:22:43,359
four bedroomedroom
say nine room house and you know it's

1556
02:22:41,359 --> 02:22:49,280
unknown that's the unknown and that's
where the state feels that that's the

1557
02:22:45,120 --> 02:22:54,240
time to upgrade the septic system.
>> Yeah. Yeah.

1558
02:22:52,160 --> 02:22:57,200
» It's not an easy sell to the people. I
tell you I I I understand.

1559
02:22:56,240 --> 02:23:00,720
» Right.
>> But I can ask the you know I wish they

1560
02:22:59,120 --> 02:23:04,479
were here tonight. They did know about
this.

1561
02:23:01,920 --> 02:23:10,720
that if if they can't be maybe we'll
have them at the next meeting but ask

1562
02:23:06,399 --> 02:23:15,760
them can you design that space below the
new bathroom ba bathroom the new master

1563
02:23:13,760 --> 02:23:20,560
bedroom bathroom can you design a space
below to be part of one existing

1564
02:23:18,560 --> 02:23:24,000
habitable room
>> because then they wouldn't be changing

1565
02:23:22,240 --> 02:23:28,880
» either that
>> or make it three season

1566
02:23:26,800 --> 02:23:34,000
» yep that's a nice option
>> so now there are three options

1567
02:23:31,520 --> 02:23:39,920
uh one bigger room somehow downstairs
that looks like one room and not like

1568
02:23:36,319 --> 02:23:43,920
multiple rooms. Um or functions as one
big room does have to look functions as.

1569
02:23:42,399 --> 02:23:50,800
And then
>> the three season sun room unconditioned

1570
02:23:47,680 --> 02:23:58,640
space um
or redo the septics upgrade the septic.

1571
02:23:56,160 --> 02:24:01,600
» Yeah. And these are hard cells. Maybe
eliminate a room somewhere else.

1572
02:24:01,200 --> 02:24:06,399
» Yeah.
>> Is it tied to that room like if they did

1573
02:24:04,080 --> 02:24:11,280
other adjustments?
>> Yeah. I don't know that

1574
02:24:07,680 --> 02:24:15,920
» except that room but lowered the one.
Although that seems kind of counter to

1575
02:24:13,359 --> 02:24:21,120
what the ET is saying,
>> which is you can't just straight away

1576
02:24:18,240 --> 02:24:22,800
you upgrade that room.
>> Yeah.

1577
02:24:21,439 --> 02:24:25,680
» Um
>> because it's already there. I don't

1578
02:24:24,319 --> 02:24:29,760
know. I don't know.
>> It's a tough one. It really is. And but

1579
02:24:27,600 --> 02:24:32,399
it's nice that now we can call them. I
can get back to him beginning of next

1580
02:24:31,359 --> 02:24:36,080
week and
>> let him know the three options, you

1581
02:24:34,479 --> 02:24:39,280
know, that they have
>> and see what they can do. They're

1582
02:24:37,439 --> 02:24:43,439
working with a septic installer who
works in town quite quite a bit.

1583
02:24:41,520 --> 02:24:48,000
» So I I think they hopefully they're
getting I'm sure good guidance. I mean

1584
02:24:46,080 --> 02:24:51,920
» in all respects someday if they ever
sell the house, they may have to do it

1585
02:24:49,520 --> 02:24:54,560
anyways. So you know,
>> yeah,

1586
02:24:52,160 --> 02:24:59,439
» we try to explain that to them. We don't
want to make them force them to do

1587
02:24:56,720 --> 02:25:05,040
something as a whole new septic system
replacement, but sometimes it it might

1588
02:25:02,560 --> 02:25:10,160
be that the septic installer might has
had maybe he's already discussed that

1589
02:25:07,359 --> 02:25:15,359
with them as well.
And I guess the other point is that if

1590
02:25:12,960 --> 02:25:19,120
it's a cesspool there,
>> yes, it with a tank

1591
02:25:16,640 --> 02:25:24,640
» likely a pretty old system and it really
has

1592
02:25:20,880 --> 02:25:28,960
uh probably run its lifespan already.
>> Mo most likely if they have to mention

1593
02:25:27,040 --> 02:25:32,319
being underperforming, but
>> yeah. Well, and when you see them

1594
02:25:30,800 --> 02:25:36,640
putting septic tanks in front of these
cess poolools, it tells us that or

1595
02:25:34,640 --> 02:25:44,560
leeching lines off them. It tells us the
cesspool was already in some demand for

1596
02:25:41,760 --> 02:25:50,080
better functioning. You know, septic
tank does help to help the waste going

1597
02:25:47,439 --> 02:25:53,760
into the cesspool, but it still isn't
environmentally sound because we don't

1598
02:25:52,000 --> 02:25:57,680
know where the groundwater this
property.

1599
02:25:54,880 --> 02:26:02,399
» Do we do we have any records of when the
septic system? We we we do not

1600
02:26:01,120 --> 02:26:06,000
» think
>> I could then usually we have those but I

1601
02:26:04,479 --> 02:26:10,960
could not find any records for when the
septic tank was added to the ces pool.

1602
02:26:08,720 --> 02:26:14,200
» So we're very limited on what we have on
this property.

1603
02:26:17,359 --> 02:26:26,240
» Right. And what's what's the
>> what's the average length of cesspool I

1604
02:26:22,640 --> 02:26:31,040
mean of a system?
I mean the average system is 30 by 40.

1605
02:26:29,600 --> 02:26:35,200
Yeah. If you were putting in a
replacement system and you're going in

1606
02:26:33,200 --> 02:26:40,560
between say the 10 and 30 minute branch
rate, it's usually 20 ft by 30 feet of

1607
02:26:38,399 --> 02:26:45,840
leeching area. It either could be a
trench, a bed. A bed would need a

1608
02:26:42,560 --> 02:26:50,080
variance from the board and shallow pits
will not work. The state does allow

1609
02:26:47,520 --> 02:26:54,479
shallow pits, no longer deep pits. And
that's where cesspools don't play into

1610
02:26:52,240 --> 02:26:59,680
the regulation either. All they allow
now is a two-foot septic pit. And so

1611
02:26:56,960 --> 02:27:05,280
most people will design systems with
leeching trenches.

1612
02:27:02,800 --> 02:27:11,399
You get more more for that. You know,
more square feet for your gallons needed

1613
02:27:08,160 --> 02:27:11,399
per day.

1614
02:27:12,960 --> 02:27:21,640
» Okay. Yeah. Could just be great.
>> Yeah. depends on where they want to comp

1615
02:27:22,319 --> 02:27:27,280
I mean it is a big jump in cost for
their

1616
02:27:24,960 --> 02:27:32,080
» Yeah. Oh, I I get it. I truly respect
that and it's and so when I do call the

1617
02:27:30,399 --> 02:27:35,840
owners, I'll give them the options the
board discussed and and also offer them

1618
02:27:34,479 --> 02:27:38,800
to come back and meet with the board
themselves if they so like.

1619
02:27:37,680 --> 02:27:43,680
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. And sketch out they could do some

1620
02:27:41,359 --> 02:27:47,439
rough sketches if they wanted
>> of options that we could go over with

1621
02:27:45,439 --> 02:27:50,160
them.
Okay.

1622
02:27:48,560 --> 02:27:54,880
» And if I hear anything different, I'll
try to reach out to Claire

1623
02:27:51,920 --> 02:27:59,120
» and explain this got expanded. I'll see
>> where they go with reconstructing rooms

1624
02:27:57,359 --> 02:28:03,680
that have no design flow because that
that is its own little definition in a

1625
02:28:02,319 --> 02:28:08,920
way.
>> Try to give them the benefit of the

1626
02:28:05,040 --> 02:28:08,920
doubt with anything possible.

1627
02:28:10,720 --> 02:28:21,439
» All right. Uh, does anyone else have any
other ideas or questions on that?

1628
02:28:17,600 --> 02:28:25,439
Otherwise, we can go on to 51 Western.
>> I know it. We're not too far. It's in

1629
02:28:23,760 --> 02:28:30,319
the same neighborhood. Actually, they're
all within All three of my items on the

1630
02:28:28,000 --> 02:28:35,520
agenda are all within a mile of each
other. 51 Western A. board. Uh I

1631
02:28:33,760 --> 02:28:39,520
actually approved a building application
had noted that the room was not to be

1632
02:28:38,160 --> 02:28:44,880
conditioned because they wanted to
insulate it back I think it was a few

1633
02:28:42,000 --> 02:28:48,720
years back and and then you'll see from
the letter from the building

1634
02:28:46,080 --> 02:28:53,040
commissioner that he went in to view
something over there and I guess he was

1635
02:28:51,040 --> 02:28:58,560
planning to do an he's planning to do an
addition where or changes to the kitchen

1636
02:28:56,399 --> 02:29:04,560
reduce the bedroom by making a master
bedroom. So, two bedrooms are going into

1637
02:29:00,479 --> 02:29:09,040
a master bedroom/c closet. Um, so he's
actually reducing. It's a good thing

1638
02:29:06,240 --> 02:29:13,920
what he wants to do, but what was
discovered is he put conditioning into

1639
02:29:11,760 --> 02:29:17,120
the room over the garage. There's no
water according to the building

1640
02:29:15,520 --> 02:29:22,000
commissioner or connect septic
connections, but it's still a finished

1641
02:29:19,040 --> 02:29:26,640
room over a garage. And so with that
said, I didn't know

1642
02:29:24,800 --> 02:29:30,080
» well I knew that it would be best to
share this with the board and see how

1643
02:29:28,240 --> 02:29:33,840
you want me to proceed since now there's
been a violation of building something

1644
02:29:31,920 --> 02:29:38,520
without permit. Not building it per se,
but putting in conditioning without

1645
02:29:35,520 --> 02:29:38,520
permit.

1646
02:29:40,160 --> 02:29:46,399
» Yeah, go ahead Sarah if you may. If I
may, Darl to Sarah.

1647
02:29:43,280 --> 02:29:50,720
» Sorry. I just want to check uh you I cut
out my sound a little bit for a second

1648
02:29:47,840 --> 02:29:54,479
there. We're talking about
>> uh 51 Western

1649
02:29:52,960 --> 02:30:01,920
» Western
>> um 51 Western AB

1650
02:29:58,720 --> 02:30:05,920
is We don't have the plans of the
garage.

1651
02:30:03,600 --> 02:30:09,760
» No, we don't. All we have is the All we
have is what Chris defined it as. And I

1652
02:30:08,080 --> 02:30:12,720
agree. We do need those plans to see
what it looks like. Yeah.

1653
02:30:10,960 --> 02:30:16,080
» But we don't have the plan. I'm just
going and thank you Sarah for bringing

1654
02:30:14,560 --> 02:30:20,000
that point up because I'm just going by
what Chris Tanny's reporting back to me,

1655
02:30:18,080 --> 02:30:22,880
our building commissioner.
>> Right. I just wanted to double check to

1656
02:30:22,073 --> 02:30:27,040
[laughter] make sure I wasn't
>> No, I appreciate that. No, we have not

1657
02:30:25,200 --> 02:30:31,040
seen that plan yet. And I think that
would be important to make sure it's not

1658
02:30:29,359 --> 02:30:34,399
two rooms, you know, and make sure it's
just one large room over the garage

1659
02:30:33,280 --> 02:30:40,800
» or more than one room
>> and make sure that the garage is only a

1660
02:30:37,920 --> 02:30:44,240
garage and not like an office in one
corner or something. Um,

1661
02:30:43,600 --> 02:30:48,000
» yeah,
>> you know, another room that we might not

1662
02:30:46,319 --> 02:30:54,479
expect
there as well.

1663
02:30:49,920 --> 02:31:00,960
» I I see that by what they want to do is
actually helpful. It does reduce the

1664
02:30:56,720 --> 02:31:04,319
room count, but again, um it I I'm only
reporting it to the board because it was

1665
02:31:02,560 --> 02:31:07,920
a failure to draw a permit out to
condition that room. And they were

1666
02:31:05,680 --> 02:31:12,560
specifically noted in the building
permit. I specifically noted the room

1667
02:31:10,160 --> 02:31:16,720
was not to be conditioned. So, it's a
violation of what was stated and and

1668
02:31:14,640 --> 02:31:19,359
approved for. Uh but
>> yeah,

1669
02:31:17,280 --> 02:31:24,880
» it's done. It's, you know, something
that the board needs to know and the

1670
02:31:22,080 --> 02:31:29,920
board could actually say rip out the
conditioning. But in my view, I would

1671
02:31:26,880 --> 02:31:34,080
suggest that if the room count stays
within Well, it's getting reduced that

1672
02:31:32,319 --> 02:31:38,560
this room over the garage should all fit
in. But at the same time, I'm only

1673
02:31:36,640 --> 02:31:45,600
reporting it since it's unique in its
own way.

1674
02:31:40,399 --> 02:31:49,520
» Oh, I found a sketch. It's not really
>> I thought I saw something. It's just one

1675
02:31:47,520 --> 02:31:56,319
lodge area. Correct, Sarah?
>> All they showed us was um

1676
02:31:53,680 --> 02:32:01,280
it was hidden in an email. I'm pulling
it up right now. It's loading in

1677
02:31:57,680 --> 02:32:05,280
PowerPoint. It's really just a They just
sent us a square.

1678
02:32:03,439 --> 02:32:09,600
» Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, it
should be defined what it's used for.

1679
02:32:07,680 --> 02:32:12,720
And that was a good point.
>> I asked for pictures. I think we asked

1680
02:32:11,359 --> 02:32:18,800
for some pictures as well.
>> Excellent. So, pictures and a plan would

1681
02:32:14,880 --> 02:32:22,800
be great, but I I do want to Yeah, go
ahead. I'm sorry.

1682
02:32:19,680 --> 02:32:27,760
» Yeah. Oh, right. I was thinking, is
there a basement here?

1683
02:32:25,280 --> 02:32:30,960
» No basement one way or the other. No
basement at all.

1684
02:32:29,120 --> 02:32:34,080
» Yeah, that's what they've told us. I
don't know if there's no basement, but

1685
02:32:32,399 --> 02:32:37,439
there's no finished basement is what I
was told.

1686
02:32:35,439 --> 02:32:41,120
» Okay. I guess it'd be nice to verify
that given what just went on.

1687
02:32:38,800 --> 02:32:45,600
» Yep. Yeah, I can. Hopefully Chris also
walked in the basement, especially after

1688
02:32:43,120 --> 02:32:48,960
he saw the upstairs of the garage. So,
>> yeah.

1689
02:32:46,160 --> 02:32:54,479
» All right. Uh, right. Garage, upstairs,
and down.

1690
02:32:51,760 --> 02:32:59,280
» Okay. Oh, the whole thing's a slab.
>> Okay. Well, that makes that simpler.

1691
02:32:56,960 --> 02:33:02,880
» Well, that's We tested the soil right
across the street from this house, and

1692
02:33:00,880 --> 02:33:07,040
ground water's high, so I can see why
they probably are on a slab.

1693
02:33:05,359 --> 02:33:12,880
» Yeah. Okay.
>> And then it looks like the sun room is a

1694
02:33:09,760 --> 02:33:16,479
four season since they didn't call it
out any differently and whatever. They

1695
02:33:14,960 --> 02:33:21,120
don't show a door.
>> Yeah, I agree. I assumed it was a

1696
02:33:19,120 --> 02:33:24,120
finished a condition room.
>> Yeah.

1697
02:33:24,240 --> 02:33:34,399
» Maybe why they needed that room close.
>> Yeah. So,

1698
02:33:31,200 --> 02:33:39,120
» but I'll wait for the direction.
>> Yeah. And then I guess just the kind of

1699
02:33:36,960 --> 02:33:44,000
reasonleness
card without dimensions, too. The new

1700
02:33:41,600 --> 02:33:48,399
kitchen looks quite extensive and looks
like it fills up

1701
02:33:45,840 --> 02:33:52,319
» all the way to the utility room.
>> Yeah. And that was a question I had too.

1702
02:33:50,399 --> 02:33:57,439
What is the utility room? But I think
the room count will still be okay.

1703
02:33:54,640 --> 02:34:01,439
» But it you don't see
>> Yeah,

1704
02:33:58,560 --> 02:34:06,800
» but it is on a slab. So maybe it's
>> Yeah, it could be their their well pump

1705
02:34:04,000 --> 02:34:14,000
unit and all that. the pressure tank.
>> But I should ask them what that utility

1706
02:34:08,880 --> 02:34:17,359
room is or explain what's in there. And
is it

1707
02:34:15,840 --> 02:34:22,720
» Yeah,
somewhere in the kitchen design stuff.

1708
02:34:20,399 --> 02:34:28,560
It looked like
from the kitchen there's a sliding door

1709
02:34:25,680 --> 02:34:32,479
or something leading in. So you can see
from the kitchen in. So it can't be

1710
02:34:30,800 --> 02:34:37,920
completely undone, but it might be just
a very nice laundry room.

1711
02:34:35,439 --> 02:34:42,319
Yeah, true.
>> But I can question that too. I wish they

1712
02:34:40,240 --> 02:34:46,080
were here. I No one wanted to show up
tonight

1713
02:34:43,920 --> 02:34:51,040
» and they were all notified in the middle
of

1714
02:34:48,640 --> 02:34:55,600
» Yeah, I get it. I get [laughter] it.
Understand.

1715
02:34:52,560 --> 02:35:01,600
» All right. So,
enough information for now to get to the

1716
02:34:58,399 --> 02:35:07,200
next step with questions. Sarah, you
pointed out things to ask them for and

1717
02:35:03,920 --> 02:35:11,760
whatever. So,
>> yeah, Sarah, if you don't mind, the

1718
02:35:09,120 --> 02:35:15,200
three bullets need pl pictures and plans
of the garage. We know the basement's

1719
02:35:13,840 --> 02:35:19,040
not finished. So, that and what's in the
utility room. If you want to reach out

1720
02:35:16,720 --> 02:35:21,760
to the homeowner before I get back on
Monday, you're more than welcome to do

1721
02:35:20,720 --> 02:35:26,080
that.
>> Sure, I can do that. Hopefully, they'll

1722
02:35:23,520 --> 02:35:30,520
get it to me by Monday.
>> And that would even be better. Thank

1723
02:35:27,520 --> 02:35:30,520
you.

1724
02:35:31,520 --> 02:35:40,000
Okay.
>> And then 46 Western a is off. Correct.

1725
02:35:36,880 --> 02:35:43,040
» Yes, that's correct. But Bose just asked
a question, Darl. I don't know if you

1726
02:35:41,439 --> 02:35:47,200
heard him. Was that you, Bose, that was
asking the question?

1727
02:35:44,000 --> 02:35:50,720
» Yeah. Yeah. Mark, uh, is that a detached
garage or is it attached?

1728
02:35:48,720 --> 02:35:55,600
» It's detached. It's It's I believe it's
detached. I worked right across from

1729
02:35:52,080 --> 02:35:58,640
there. I believe it's a detached garage.
>> Sarah, do you know that? I believe it is

1730
02:35:57,439 --> 02:36:02,800
cuz they would have shown it off the
house.

1731
02:35:59,120 --> 02:36:07,920
» Yeah. Um it's a detached garage. Let me
see if I can um

1732
02:36:05,200 --> 02:36:13,040
» Yeah, I I would draw it up, but my
computer just died. So,

1733
02:36:10,720 --> 02:36:18,560
» let me see if I can find the It's a
detached garage, and there's um some

1734
02:36:16,640 --> 02:36:22,880
steps
from the garage. It's a little bit

1735
02:36:20,800 --> 02:36:27,600
higher up,
it looks like. And I'm trying to find

1736
02:36:24,720 --> 02:36:31,040
where where I saw that.
>> Okay.

1737
02:36:29,280 --> 02:36:33,520
» I believe it is. I mean, I worked right
across from there. I believe it's

1738
02:36:32,240 --> 02:36:37,920
detached.
>> Here we go. Let me I was able to pull up

1739
02:36:36,080 --> 02:36:43,439
their
>> building permit when they built the

1740
02:36:39,520 --> 02:36:50,720
garage, which is when it was uh
permitted to be not conditioned.

1741
02:36:47,280 --> 02:36:58,760
» Yes. Thank you for doing that.
Um, so this is the front view of the

1742
02:36:54,160 --> 02:36:58,760
garage and this is the back view.

1743
02:36:59,120 --> 02:37:03,319
And this is like the

1744
02:37:05,439 --> 02:37:11,040
» Okay. Well, I appreciate that, Sarah.
And and we'll try to

1745
02:37:09,680 --> 02:37:15,760
» Yeah, we'll try to get some more
answers, but I just want to make sure

1746
02:37:13,120 --> 02:37:21,920
the board's okay if um I'm okay to
approve it, even though they violated a

1747
02:37:18,399 --> 02:37:27,520
permit. Um with the changes in the house
I think whatever happens the if they

1748
02:37:25,200 --> 02:37:31,040
don't change the house then the room has
to come the conditioning has to come out

1749
02:37:29,200 --> 02:37:34,640
of that room. If they do change the
house

1750
02:37:31,760 --> 02:37:41,840
» and cut down one bedroom then I see that
as the solution to having the garage

1751
02:37:38,560 --> 02:37:48,399
room over the garage conditioned.
If the board's okay with that.

1752
02:37:45,200 --> 02:37:52,800
How do you enforce that
>> uh through the building commissioner? He

1753
02:37:50,080 --> 02:38:00,359
would have to assure that they're not in
any way uh deciding to change what the

1754
02:37:56,479 --> 02:38:00,359
building permit has requested.

1755
02:38:04,479 --> 02:38:09,760
» Okay.
>> I don't know who just asked that

1756
02:38:07,200 --> 02:38:12,240
question. Was that you? Um Rebecca, how
you enforce that?

1757
02:38:11,520 --> 02:38:16,000
» Yes.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's how it would happen.

1758
02:38:14,479 --> 02:38:19,840
they would have to comply with the
building permit being issued. If and

1759
02:38:18,319 --> 02:38:25,120
we'll have to let Chris know if they
decided not to do this, then we have to

1760
02:38:22,880 --> 02:38:29,280
come back and readress this of removing
that conditioning in the garage because

1761
02:38:27,359 --> 02:38:35,359
by what they wish to do, that will be
the solution in my view as long as the

1762
02:38:31,600 --> 02:38:41,680
board's satisfied with that.
Now, does the board have jurisdiction to

1763
02:38:40,080 --> 02:38:48,080
to
look at um if the building deviates from

1764
02:38:46,080 --> 02:38:52,160
the permit or is it the building
department that has the jurisdiction to

1765
02:38:50,399 --> 02:38:57,200
» the building department in most cases
Bose will do the final inspections and

1766
02:38:54,960 --> 02:39:03,200
we rely on them to make sure they're
followed as as approved. But there have

1767
02:39:00,960 --> 02:39:08,000
been a few cases if it's a new house, we
go through the new house to make sure

1768
02:39:05,200 --> 02:39:12,960
the building plan was as accurate as it
was when originally approved. But for

1769
02:39:10,880 --> 02:39:18,240
additions, we rely on the building
commissioner finalizing those. And

1770
02:39:16,240 --> 02:39:23,359
» I can ask the building commissioner if
when this does get approved, if the

1771
02:39:20,000 --> 02:39:31,040
board's okay with that, is to uh confirm
when all the work is done as as noted by

1772
02:39:26,399 --> 02:39:35,399
the permit that was uh pulled out for
that was obtained by the applicant.

1773
02:39:38,960 --> 02:39:42,600
I hope that helps.

1774
02:39:43,920 --> 02:39:52,960
» All right. I was trying to remember. I
know, Scott. What's the

1775
02:39:50,000 --> 02:39:56,160
current sizing bedroom wise of the
system?

1776
02:39:54,880 --> 02:39:59,600
» Oh, I don't have that in front of me,
Darl. And that's the one thing I was

1777
02:39:57,680 --> 02:40:01,280
looking for before the meeting started.
I believe it's a

1778
02:40:00,880 --> 02:40:05,120
» Yeah,
>> not for sure. I believe it's a

1779
02:40:02,479 --> 02:40:08,800
threebedroom.
>> Sarah, you don't have the septic

1780
02:40:06,640 --> 02:40:16,640
information with you, do you?
>> I can try and find what I do have.

1781
02:40:12,319 --> 02:40:20,800
» Okay. Okay. So, actually, if they
wanted to call it a bedroom, I think

1782
02:40:18,800 --> 02:40:25,040
they could because they they're down to
two bedrooms.

1783
02:40:22,080 --> 02:40:28,040
» Yeah.
>> Yeah.

1784
02:40:30,640 --> 02:40:34,200
» We can look at that.

1785
02:40:36,560 --> 02:40:40,760
We have a septic plan

1786
02:40:41,120 --> 02:40:47,160
from
here. I found it.

1787
02:40:48,000 --> 02:40:53,040
1970,
but it's

1788
02:40:51,120 --> 02:40:56,000
» okay. I thought it was old. Yeah.
>> Mhm.

1789
02:40:54,319 --> 02:41:02,080
» Is it Does it show Do you know a
threebedroom?

1790
02:40:57,200 --> 02:41:05,800
» It is a threebedroom house system. looks
like it

1791
02:41:06,319 --> 02:41:14,560
don't know if it has a
design flow of

1792
02:41:12,640 --> 02:41:18,720
looks like it has the estimated flow is
300 gallons per day.

1793
02:41:16,880 --> 02:41:22,640
» Yeah, that that sounds like the old way
of doing things. But I I can look at

1794
02:41:20,800 --> 02:41:26,479
that when I get back. So, if you want,
don't worry about this. We can hold off

1795
02:41:24,240 --> 02:41:31,120
till Monday. I was hoping the applicant
would be at the meeting, but I'll I'll

1796
02:41:28,479 --> 02:41:35,680
take if I'll ask Jean to pull the plans
and Oh, you can pull the plans, Sarah,

1797
02:41:33,600 --> 02:41:39,120
and I'll take a peek at them.
>> Yep.

1798
02:41:36,800 --> 02:41:43,280
» Okay. Thank you.
>> Okay.

1799
02:41:40,640 --> 02:41:49,439
Uh, all right. Let's take care of food
permits because those are timely,

1800
02:41:46,479 --> 02:41:56,439
timesensitive.
So, um,

1801
02:41:52,800 --> 02:41:56,439
let's pick something

1802
02:41:58,319 --> 02:42:05,479
to
Sorry, at this point I can't remember

1803
02:42:01,520 --> 02:42:05,479
all my notes on them.

1804
02:42:06,080 --> 02:42:14,960
» Do you want me to reshare the agenda?
>> Uh, no, that's okay. So, we have the

1805
02:42:11,600 --> 02:42:23,160
Tasty Gelato truck. Mhm.
>> And I don't think I saw anything that

1806
02:42:18,319 --> 02:42:23,160
stood out to me as unusual there.

1807
02:42:23,840 --> 02:42:31,439
Um,
oh, uh,

1808
02:42:28,880 --> 02:42:37,760
best of your understanding, is this one
ready to be voted on?

1809
02:42:34,560 --> 02:42:45,880
» Everything's in any conditions.
um for the tasty gelato truck.

1810
02:42:42,479 --> 02:42:45,880
I believe

1811
02:42:46,080 --> 02:42:55,840
that their um ice cream truck vending
permit expires on August 13th.

1812
02:42:53,439 --> 02:43:02,240
However, that can't be renewed until the
same day. Um but we have worked with

1813
02:42:59,120 --> 02:43:06,479
them previously and we know that they'll
get us the the ice cream vending permit.

1814
02:43:04,960 --> 02:43:10,960
So, I would just say conditional to
receipt of a of an updated ice cream

1815
02:43:09,280 --> 02:43:16,479
permit.
>> Okay.

1816
02:43:13,680 --> 02:43:21,800
All right, then. Um, does anyone else
have any other questions about that

1817
02:43:18,080 --> 02:43:21,800
before I make a motion?

1818
02:43:22,800 --> 02:43:34,560
Okay. So, do we have a motion to approve
the temporary food establishment permit

1819
02:43:31,200 --> 02:43:43,319
for the Tasty Gelato truck conditional
to receiving their updated certificate?

1820
02:43:40,160 --> 02:43:43,319
» So moved.

1821
02:43:47,359 --> 02:43:54,399
» Second.
>> All right. Excellent. Uh any further

1822
02:43:51,840 --> 02:44:00,319
discussion hearing? None. Daryl
Beardsley I.

1823
02:43:55,840 --> 02:44:03,319
» Steve Constantine I. Rebecca Hanwell I
>> Bakali.

1824
02:44:04,160 --> 02:44:13,040
» And then we have Nic uh Catholic
community who is going to have an event

1825
02:44:11,520 --> 02:44:19,520
at
um Sweet Meadow Farm which I know Sweet

1826
02:44:17,120 --> 02:44:24,800
Meadow does periodically.
And

1827
02:44:22,399 --> 02:44:31,240
check if I had a question. I was a
little confused about something on this.

1828
02:44:28,240 --> 02:44:31,240
Um,

1829
02:44:32,319 --> 02:44:39,319
make sure
they had checked off

1830
02:44:40,319 --> 02:44:48,000
uh
preparation and retail sale of time

1831
02:44:45,040 --> 02:44:53,560
temperature controlled foods prepared on
site.

1832
02:44:50,560 --> 02:44:53,560
Uh,

1833
02:44:53,840 --> 02:45:00,800
is this a
food truck? I didn't think it was a food

1834
02:44:58,399 --> 02:45:02,560
truck or anything. Are they barbecuing
or

1835
02:45:01,600 --> 02:45:06,000
» they're barbecuing?
>> I just didn't think Sweet Meadow had

1836
02:45:04,720 --> 02:45:09,439
ample
>> barbecue

1837
02:45:06,560 --> 02:45:12,880
» water and all the rest.
>> Um, but Sweet Meadow Farm does have a

1838
02:45:11,439 --> 02:45:17,680
food permit, a food establishment
permit. So there, if you look at their

1839
02:45:15,920 --> 02:45:22,720
uh application that's in the meeting
documents, they have a facility approval

1840
02:45:20,880 --> 02:45:26,399
letter from Sweet Meadow Farm that
allows them to use their bathrooms and

1841
02:45:24,800 --> 02:45:30,319
handwashing sink.
>> Um, and they have a valid license permit

1842
02:45:29,840 --> 02:45:35,040
with
>> Okay.

1843
02:45:33,279 --> 02:45:38,640
» But they are barbecuing. They have a
grill.

1844
02:45:37,040 --> 02:45:44,960
» Okay.
All right. So it's not super

1845
02:45:41,680 --> 02:45:51,279
water intensive. Okay, great. So, um,
anybody else have any questions, further

1846
02:45:47,680 --> 02:45:56,080
questions about that?
Okay. So, then do we have a motion to

1847
02:45:53,680 --> 02:46:02,000
approve the temporary food establishment
permit

1848
02:45:57,760 --> 02:46:07,319
for Native Catholic community?
>> So, moved.

1849
02:46:04,319 --> 02:46:07,319
» Second.

1850
02:46:07,359 --> 02:46:12,880
» Um, I do have a question. Sarah, are
there any conditions we need to impose

1851
02:46:11,680 --> 02:46:17,040
on this?
>> Just remaining in compliance with all

1852
02:46:14,720 --> 02:46:24,080
applicable laws.
>> Okay. Uh all right. So friendly

1853
02:46:20,240 --> 02:46:29,120
amendment to the motion is the
compliance with all applicable rules and

1854
02:46:26,479 --> 02:46:32,240
regulations.
Are we ready to vote?

1855
02:46:31,680 --> 02:46:36,399
» Yep.
>> Okay. Daryl Beersley I.

1856
02:46:34,560 --> 02:46:41,080
» Steve Constantine I.
>> Rebecca Honeywell I. Those

1857
02:46:46,720 --> 02:46:50,200
Nash bowls

1858
02:46:51,439 --> 02:47:00,399
and is this one all set to go? Any
conditions we need to

1859
02:46:58,319 --> 02:47:04,720
» with this?
Okay. Actually, I did have qu at the top

1860
02:47:02,560 --> 02:47:10,319
of the application
on permit type,

1861
02:47:07,439 --> 02:47:14,800
unless you know it was just a very light
check off.

1862
02:47:11,760 --> 02:47:20,560
» I wasn't seeing any check offs.
>> Um, it's it's a new manual

1863
02:47:18,800 --> 02:47:23,560
» and they're technically ice cream
bending.

1864
02:47:24,560 --> 02:47:28,560
» I think it's just really light. I just
don't think it's scanned right. You've

1865
02:47:27,600 --> 02:47:32,800
been having some scanners.
>> Oh, okay. Okay.

1866
02:47:30,880 --> 02:47:38,960
All right. Yeah, I could see like little
weird markings here and there. Just

1867
02:47:36,000 --> 02:47:43,120
» No. Okay. So, it's all set otherwise.
>> Yeah, they have nothing outstanding.

1868
02:47:40,800 --> 02:47:49,600
Everything's all set.
>> Okay. All right. And do we have a motion

1869
02:47:46,560 --> 02:47:56,240
to approve the annual mobile food
establishment permit

1870
02:47:52,319 --> 02:48:02,080
for Nashville of New England conditional
to compliance with all applicable rules

1871
02:48:00,000 --> 02:48:07,439
and regulations?
>> So moved.

1872
02:48:04,640 --> 02:48:13,359
» Second.
>> Any further discussion?

1873
02:48:10,399 --> 02:48:18,840
Hearing none. Daryl Beardsley I. Steve
Constantine. I

1874
02:48:14,800 --> 02:48:18,840
» Rebecca Han I

1875
02:48:22,880 --> 02:48:29,680
» um
All right. I'm going to do the minutes

1876
02:48:27,120 --> 02:48:36,640
because we have to re make sure we
review or vote on the I believe the June

1877
02:48:34,399 --> 02:48:39,760
minutes.
Um,

1878
02:48:37,760 --> 02:48:45,600
» we technically could push them till
September because we voted on the June

1879
02:48:41,840 --> 02:48:53,600
3rd minutes at the last meeting.
>> Okay. Uh, is anyone else ready to vote

1880
02:48:48,720 --> 02:48:57,760
on the other June um 15th meet minutes?
>> Ready to vote.

1881
02:48:56,479 --> 02:49:04,560
» Oh, I'm ready.
>> I had no edits.

1882
02:49:01,200 --> 02:49:09,600
» Okay. I had relatively minor edits.
Sarah, did you have any questions about

1883
02:49:07,760 --> 02:49:12,160
the edits I sent in? Maybe you didn't
get to see it. I just sent it this

1884
02:49:11,439 --> 02:49:16,840
afternoon. I'm
>> looking over them now. I don't see

1885
02:49:13,840 --> 02:49:16,840
anything.

1886
02:49:17,040 --> 02:49:21,240
» Yeah, I think it was kind of small.

1887
02:49:21,920 --> 02:49:30,279
» Okay, then let me just get the right
date.

1888
02:49:26,880 --> 02:49:30,279
» June 17th.

1889
02:49:30,319 --> 02:49:42,800
» 17th. Okay.
Uh so do we have a motion to

1890
02:49:37,200 --> 02:49:47,279
approve the June 17, 2026 minutes with
the uh minor edits that have been

1891
02:49:45,520 --> 02:49:50,520
submitted?
>> So moved.

1892
02:49:51,120 --> 02:49:58,319
» Second.
>> Any further discussion?

1893
02:49:56,240 --> 02:50:04,439
Hearing none. Daryl Beardsley I.
>> Steve Constantine I. Rebecca Hanwa I

1894
02:50:06,160 --> 02:50:15,840
» and is anyone ready to vote on the July
7 15 17 I can't remember what number it

1895
02:50:14,240 --> 02:50:20,720
was
15 I think

1896
02:50:17,920 --> 02:50:24,359
» I know
>> I readal

1897
02:50:29,760 --> 02:50:37,279
Anybody else? Or shall we defer to the
next meeting?

1898
02:50:33,359 --> 02:50:40,160
» I'm good with that with the July ones.
>> Okay,

1899
02:50:37,600 --> 02:50:44,560
» let's defer. Yeah.
>> All right.

1900
02:50:41,760 --> 02:50:48,479
And I just need the actual date or or
someone else can make the motion if you

1901
02:50:46,319 --> 02:50:53,920
know the date. Exact date.
>> July 15th.

1902
02:50:51,120 --> 02:51:03,600
» Okay. It is the 15th. All right. So, do
we have a motion to approve the July

1903
02:50:56,960 --> 02:51:09,920
15th minute 2026 minutes um with the
administrative edits as submitted?

1904
02:51:06,720 --> 02:51:15,200
» So moved.
>> Second.

1905
02:51:12,800 --> 02:51:19,760
» Any further discussion?
Hearing none. Daryl Beardsley I.

1906
02:51:17,760 --> 02:51:23,880
» Steve Constantine I.
>> Rebecca Hanwella I.

1907
02:51:27,359 --> 02:51:37,200
Uh so now we have
bunch of things that are more

1908
02:51:32,080 --> 02:51:40,760
complicated that are left. Uh
and it's 9:55.

1909
02:51:40,960 --> 02:51:52,640
So I guess one I would probably want to
take now because we need to get moving

1910
02:51:47,680 --> 02:51:58,560
on this opioid baitment fund use.
>> Yeah. Um

1911
02:51:54,880 --> 02:52:05,120
so one question is
is there a subset of board members who

1912
02:52:01,600 --> 02:52:12,080
are interested in working with staff and
we also are getting support now from

1913
02:52:09,279 --> 02:52:18,640
um you know there are others in the
Charles River public health district be

1914
02:52:15,359 --> 02:52:23,200
able to ask questions of and we've had
outreach from the state because they can

1915
02:52:20,880 --> 02:52:28,160
see that a lot of towns are not using
the funds just because it's a lot to

1916
02:52:25,359 --> 02:52:32,960
figure out and so they're eager to get
the ball rolling of expenditure of that

1917
02:52:30,399 --> 02:52:40,800
fund. So there's also been outreach to
us by email of uh any questions or help

1918
02:52:37,840 --> 02:52:45,840
that um we might need. So, I just don't
know if there's anyone who's intrigued

1919
02:52:42,560 --> 02:52:53,200
by figuring out where to spend the money
and on what. And and we have talked in

1920
02:52:49,920 --> 02:52:57,600
the past with Dover about
buying some of the monies to the

1921
02:52:55,200 --> 02:53:04,000
regional school system
uh jointly to see, you know, to do the

1922
02:53:00,319 --> 02:53:07,279
outreach to kids.
That's

1923
02:53:05,600 --> 02:53:14,479
something that's been discussed for
years uh about that the monies. It

1924
02:53:10,960 --> 02:53:20,080
doesn't have to be 100% on that.
>> I just think people to look at the

1925
02:53:16,399 --> 02:53:26,000
choices and what the tradeoffs are and
local needs and what makes more sense to

1926
02:53:22,640 --> 02:53:29,439
just leave it to regional centers for
some kind of help.

1927
02:53:27,920 --> 02:53:33,600
» Restrictions too. Are there any
restrictions with how it's used?

1928
02:53:32,640 --> 02:53:39,359
Yeah, there's a lot of
>> they have been loosening up. Yeah, there

1929
02:53:35,840 --> 02:53:44,640
are but better than it started out which
was really restrictive. It has improved.

1930
02:53:43,760 --> 02:53:48,399
» Okay.
>> I think it's really important

1931
02:53:46,800 --> 02:53:54,800
interested. I don't have a huge amount
of time right now, but I might in a few

1932
02:53:51,439 --> 02:54:01,359
months or, you know, in the future. Um
there was a group of parents when my

1933
02:53:58,000 --> 02:54:07,520
children were young that did a fantastic
job of

1934
02:54:04,399 --> 02:54:14,319
um they had like posters and all these
things that were distributed in the

1935
02:54:08,960 --> 02:54:19,120
school system um about the sort of
normalization of substance abuse risks

1936
02:54:17,279 --> 02:54:23,600
and it was great. It was really
creative. It was really effective. Um,

1937
02:54:21,600 --> 02:54:29,600
several of those families have are no
longer in the Dover Sherburn area. And I

1938
02:54:26,640 --> 02:54:35,359
would love to see if we could use some
of those funds to even repeat the exact

1939
02:54:32,720 --> 02:54:39,680
same materials. We could probably have
access to some of them and just send

1940
02:54:37,120 --> 02:54:46,560
them out again if we have some funds.
That might not be very labor intensive.

1941
02:54:43,520 --> 02:54:51,120
So Rebecca, there is there is a group of
parents who have such programs within

1942
02:54:49,600 --> 02:54:55,520
within the school now.
>> Well, that's great. Um because my kids

1943
02:54:53,920 --> 02:54:58,880
are grown up, I don't know what's
happening now, but I I think it's great.

1944
02:54:57,600 --> 02:55:03,200
I'd love to
>> be involved if there's a group. Um I

1945
02:55:01,760 --> 02:55:06,240
just don't know if I can do it by
myself.

1946
02:55:04,240 --> 02:55:09,200
» Right. No. So So there is a group and
they've

1947
02:55:07,120 --> 02:55:14,319
» they they're doing amazing stuff with
the kids. It's it's really impressive.

1948
02:55:11,439 --> 02:55:19,439
So I mean they they they could be
recipiented of the funds for sure.

1949
02:55:18,000 --> 02:55:25,279
» Yeah.
>> The board used to have in its budget um

1950
02:55:23,120 --> 02:55:31,439
» some thousands of dollars each year that
we would give to those groups to to

1951
02:55:29,120 --> 02:55:38,240
print up the materials or invite in
special speakers or have other kinds of

1952
02:55:33,760 --> 02:55:43,560
events. So um or do the social norming
surveys and and outreach. So

1953
02:55:43,840 --> 02:55:53,840
» and also I think the school hires
consultants to do you know uh surveys

1954
02:55:50,080 --> 02:56:02,720
with kids about substance abuse and
other behavioral things. Um that could

1955
02:55:57,840 --> 02:56:08,319
be another way to spend this money
>> unless there is restrictions on how much

1956
02:56:05,120 --> 02:56:12,840
can we spend on education
um rather than you know

1957
02:56:13,760 --> 02:56:17,680
» um
>> sorry

1958
02:56:15,920 --> 02:56:22,240
» no no you're totally fine there's just
no restrictions on that um

1959
02:56:20,880 --> 02:56:27,040
and
>> I well what I was going to say was

1960
02:56:24,319 --> 02:56:33,200
unless there is there pressing issues
with with opioid addiction

1961
02:56:30,560 --> 02:56:38,720
um among individuals within our
community and they would be well served

1962
02:56:36,080 --> 02:56:43,880
too with the money and with some support
and

1963
02:56:40,720 --> 02:56:43,880
» we do

1964
02:56:44,080 --> 02:56:47,920
» sorry
>> go ahead

1965
02:56:45,600 --> 02:56:54,800
» I just wanted to say um I do have two
drafted uh program proposals that have

1966
02:56:50,800 --> 02:57:02,960
been discussed in town hall um and have
been brought brought to us

1967
02:56:59,200 --> 02:57:08,160
uh by us, the board of health, um
specifically outdoor just increasing

1968
02:57:05,920 --> 02:57:17,200
access to the sharps disposal kiosk and
also um using the funds to help support

1969
02:57:12,080 --> 02:57:24,000
our the availability of nlloxxone and um
harm reduction tools for residents

1970
02:57:20,960 --> 02:57:31,000
and um for our first responders as well
because there's um some issues there.

1971
02:57:28,000 --> 02:57:31,000
So,

1972
02:57:32,080 --> 02:57:36,800
not issues rather.
>> Do you want to

1973
02:57:35,920 --> 02:57:42,640
» is that the kind of
>> I get the container the sharps container

1974
02:57:39,760 --> 02:57:49,760
thing and maybe making it so it could be
outside, but I guess

1975
02:57:46,640 --> 02:57:54,720
I'm not sure. I think that's
that I feel like spending more money on

1976
02:57:51,520 --> 02:58:01,359
that when we have a serviceable
kiosk that we already bought. And two

1977
02:57:59,600 --> 02:58:07,920
like to see the funds go to some new
dimensions. Um

1978
02:58:04,399 --> 02:58:18,240
» well um the the kiosk that we have has
um will in the in the long term

1979
02:58:14,319 --> 02:58:23,279
has well for primarily the kiosk has re
I have received feedback that there are

1980
02:58:20,560 --> 02:58:28,160
some accessibility issues in terms of
getting into the police station and also

1981
02:58:26,000 --> 02:58:34,720
in speaking with a representative from
the state technical assistance there's a

1982
02:58:31,279 --> 02:58:40,319
stigma around having a sharps disposal
kiosk as a harm reduction technique in a

1983
02:58:37,520 --> 02:58:46,800
police station. And so I've spoken with
some other towns in the area,

1984
02:58:43,279 --> 02:58:52,880
specifically Hopkin, who moved their
sharps kiosk from the police station to

1985
02:58:49,840 --> 02:58:57,680
an outdoor location. And they've had a
really positive response from their

1986
02:58:54,800 --> 02:59:04,720
residents as well. Um, and they've just
seen more engagement in harm reduction

1987
02:59:01,200 --> 02:59:09,200
practices in the town through relocating
their sharps kiosk from the police

1988
02:59:07,279 --> 02:59:15,520
station.
What is the best way for us to know what

1989
02:59:13,520 --> 02:59:20,160
you're be what you're learning when
things are submitted to you um, etc.

1990
02:59:18,399 --> 02:59:23,840
Because I would love to know what's
happening. Um, yes.

1991
02:59:23,040 --> 02:59:29,920
» Um,
>> um, well, so the police, the not the

1992
02:59:27,279 --> 02:59:35,120
police chief, apologies, the fire chief
gave me a phone call earlier this week

1993
02:59:32,399 --> 02:59:39,840
um, saying that they were having a that
they needed to purchase more uh,

1994
02:59:36,800 --> 02:59:45,120
nlloxxone for the ambulances. and we
began talking about uh potentially

1995
02:59:42,479 --> 02:59:49,520
expanding that outreach program to
purchase Nlloxxone for all of the first

1996
02:59:47,040 --> 02:59:53,680
aid kits in municipal buildings and on
public lands in town. So for the

1997
02:59:52,080 --> 02:59:59,359
library, town hall, the police
department, things like that, just

1998
02:59:55,920 --> 03:00:03,680
having more nlloxxone available. And
there's a program called Massachusetts

1999
03:00:01,600 --> 03:00:08,080
Clearing House, which is through the
Department of Public Health where you

2000
03:00:05,120 --> 03:00:12,720
can get free resources about Narcan. So
that just happened this week. Um, and

2001
03:00:10,399 --> 03:00:19,760
that's why I I put it on the agenda for
this week as well. Um, and also the

2002
03:00:15,840 --> 03:00:23,840
sharps kiosk happened last or two weeks
ago

2003
03:00:21,439 --> 03:00:29,760
when I when I reach I personally reached
out to Hopington because we have

2004
03:00:26,240 --> 03:00:35,120
something called the municipal opioid
abatement dashboard where you can see

2005
03:00:32,560 --> 03:00:42,640
what different municipalities have spent
the money on. And um I was reading about

2006
03:00:39,040 --> 03:00:49,439
how they used the funds to support the
outbur. So that was all uh sort of a uh

2007
03:00:46,960 --> 03:00:54,479
in office initiative that was conducted
and if you would like me to loop you in

2008
03:00:51,920 --> 03:00:58,359
on that more I'm I'm happy to do that.
>> That'd be great. Thanks.

2009
03:01:00,960 --> 03:01:08,880
So, as always, anyway, if there's people
interested in diving into this, that's

2010
03:01:06,399 --> 03:01:13,279
great. Sarah, continue collecting the
information as you have been. That's

2011
03:01:10,399 --> 03:01:17,200
been good. Um,
and

2012
03:01:14,880 --> 03:01:22,240
right, I
I know we have these funds, but I kind

2013
03:01:20,000 --> 03:01:28,000
of want to
just my nature rather than spend $4,000

2014
03:01:25,920 --> 03:01:33,120
on a new thing. I wholly agree with
moving the current sharps um container.

2015
03:01:31,279 --> 03:01:38,560
I'm not sure why people feel more
self-conscious because

2016
03:01:36,560 --> 03:01:46,399
right now I'd say most of what gets
dropped off there is for just people's

2017
03:01:41,040 --> 03:01:52,560
medications. So I don't know that
uh you know the act of putting sharps in

2018
03:01:49,680 --> 03:01:58,720
the the unit
is indicating anything about other than

2019
03:01:56,160 --> 03:02:03,359
that
you could potentially be abusing drugs

2020
03:02:01,520 --> 03:02:08,240
or you just need something and maybe
that's still private or revealing or

2021
03:02:06,720 --> 03:02:13,760
you're dropping it off for somebody
else. I don't know. and for the

2022
03:02:11,359 --> 03:02:19,680
relocation
um maybe being somewhere where when the

2023
03:02:16,399 --> 03:02:25,200
clerk's office is open late like it is
for some time part of the year on one

2024
03:02:23,120 --> 03:02:30,399
night just so people have access to
those services. Um, you know, they could

2025
03:02:28,080 --> 03:02:33,399
still drop stuff off kind of after work
hours.

2026
03:02:35,680 --> 03:02:44,240
» And kids and certainly providing the the
additional supplies for the ambulances

2027
03:02:41,760 --> 03:02:48,760
sounds great. Having more of that around
town.

2028
03:02:45,760 --> 03:02:48,760
Um,

2029
03:02:49,200 --> 03:02:53,920
» Darl, I was
>> feel like we kind of have this sharp

2030
03:02:51,279 --> 03:02:57,680
thing largely covered, but
>> maybe that's the wrong interpretation,

2031
03:02:56,319 --> 03:03:01,120
but
>> uh, if someone else wants to dive into

2032
03:02:59,600 --> 03:03:05,040
this topic though,
>> yeah, just real quick,

2033
03:03:02,640 --> 03:03:10,000
» step back,
>> I I agree. I think because it's not

2034
03:03:08,240 --> 03:03:15,040
it's not just people that have opioid
problems, it's people with di diabetics.

2035
03:03:12,880 --> 03:03:21,840
It's a lot of different things. Uh, and
I think the nice thing about the police

2036
03:03:17,359 --> 03:03:25,439
station is it's open 247. So people can
go after work, they can go on weekends,

2037
03:03:24,000 --> 03:03:28,720
they can pretty much go there anytime
they want.

2038
03:03:26,479 --> 03:03:34,160
» So the the issue with the police station
is is it is open 24/7. Um, but the I

2039
03:03:32,640 --> 03:03:38,960
don't know when the last time you were
actually able to go outside of 8 to 4

2040
03:03:36,880 --> 03:03:40,640
normal business hours is you have to
ring a doorbell,

2041
03:03:40,240 --> 03:03:46,160
» right,
>> to get let in. and the doorbell is

2042
03:03:43,200 --> 03:03:50,479
connected to a regional um dispatch
center and they don't know necessarily

2043
03:03:48,640 --> 03:03:55,760
that the sharps disposal kiosk is
located in the police department and I

2044
03:03:53,439 --> 03:04:00,000
have experience as an administrator it's
my responsibility to maintain the kiosk

2045
03:03:57,760 --> 03:04:03,520
so I do perform regular checks to make
sure it's not full make sure the

2046
03:04:01,920 --> 03:04:08,880
batteries aren't dead make sure that you
know it's still working properly um and

2047
03:04:06,160 --> 03:04:14,479
I've myself had to wait for upwards of
20 minutes in the little vestibule

2048
03:04:11,120 --> 03:04:17,920
waiting for someone to let me in. I rang
the doorbell. I told them I was there

2049
03:04:15,920 --> 03:04:22,160
for the sharps kiosk. I ended up waiting
there for until an officer actually came

2050
03:04:20,000 --> 03:04:26,720
and let me in. Um, and that happened
several times to the point where now I

2051
03:04:24,720 --> 03:04:31,359
have a key fob to let me into the
building just that front section to

2052
03:04:29,040 --> 03:04:36,000
access the kiosk. Um, and I've had
several residents who have attempted to

2053
03:04:34,080 --> 03:04:39,520
get into the police station to get to
the kiosk and they were unable to do so.

2054
03:04:38,399 --> 03:04:43,200
And so they actually brought their
containers to the board of health and I

2055
03:04:41,520 --> 03:04:48,800
was able to put them into the kiosk
because again I have that administrative

2056
03:04:44,960 --> 03:04:52,399
key fob for the front door. Um so when I
say there's a bit of an access issue,

2057
03:04:50,399 --> 03:04:58,160
that's what I mean is that there have
been multiple reports of individuals who

2058
03:04:55,200 --> 03:05:02,640
have come up to us in the office and
have shared that they had a hard time or

2059
03:05:00,000 --> 03:05:08,399
were waiting a while to get into the
lobby of the police station. Um, also

2060
03:05:06,880 --> 03:05:14,319
» maybe that's something we should bring
up with the police because I think

2061
03:05:10,399 --> 03:05:19,760
that's an issue. Um,
>> sorry I interrupted you.

2062
03:05:15,680 --> 03:05:24,399
» That's okay. Um, it's it's definitely
And then additionally, if you recall, we

2063
03:05:21,920 --> 03:05:28,720
did that uh initial survey when I first
started about a year ago and there was

2064
03:05:26,240 --> 03:05:33,920
some feedback about the location of the
Sharps kiosk. And so, um, if it's

2065
03:05:31,840 --> 03:05:37,840
something the board is interested in, I
have more information on it. But if the

2066
03:05:35,680 --> 03:05:43,600
board is happy with it being in the
police station and would rather explore

2067
03:05:39,760 --> 03:05:46,240
other avenues, then um, I will support
that as well.

2068
03:05:44,479 --> 03:05:51,040
» Yeah, I'm just I'm just having a hard
time trying to think of a better spot. I

2069
03:05:48,800 --> 03:05:55,120
know getting into the fire station is
difficult. Um, doing something at the

2070
03:05:53,279 --> 03:06:00,000
dump, you've got you're only open five
days a week there. Um,

2071
03:05:57,439 --> 03:06:06,800
» so we have a couple proposed locations.
Um, the first being the the DPW. They

2072
03:06:04,000 --> 03:06:12,240
have an enclosed
porch area that is completely covered.

2073
03:06:09,120 --> 03:06:19,040
So there's no impact of weather. Um, and
it is open 24/7. Um, and it is private

2074
03:06:16,800 --> 03:06:23,920
to the point where, you know, it would
sort of remove that stigma aspect to it.

2075
03:06:21,279 --> 03:06:29,680
and it was we were told by the
Department of Public Works director that

2076
03:06:26,319 --> 03:06:34,720
that would be okay. Um, and it's easy to
monitor and access. Additionally, we

2077
03:06:32,479 --> 03:06:39,600
could put it outside of town hall, which
is again, it would be outdoors,

2078
03:06:36,640 --> 03:06:43,760
accessible 24/7. The goal with
relocating it would be that it is

2079
03:06:41,600 --> 03:06:49,600
accessible 24 hours a day, 7 days a
week, 365 days a year, rain or shine. um

2080
03:06:47,840 --> 03:06:56,399
and people could just drive up, drop it
off and and you know, wipe their hands

2081
03:06:52,240 --> 03:07:00,000
of it for privacy reasons. That is sort
of the

2082
03:06:56,880 --> 03:07:04,880
» would we
>> would we be able to use the current

2083
03:07:02,000 --> 03:07:09,760
thing over at the DPW and not have to
spend an extra 4,000 save for other

2084
03:07:07,920 --> 03:07:14,080
applications?
>> It is possible. I

2085
03:07:11,200 --> 03:07:20,160
» covered enough that it's that it would
survive and not be destroyed by weather.

2086
03:07:17,200 --> 03:07:25,600
I spoke with our representative of um
the the organization or company that we

2087
03:07:23,600 --> 03:07:32,960
use is called Chrysalis and I spoke with
the manager of Chrysalis about

2088
03:07:29,600 --> 03:07:36,399
relocating to that area and she
explained to me that the kiosk I don't

2089
03:07:34,800 --> 03:07:40,960
know if any of you have used it it's
electric so

2090
03:07:38,640 --> 03:07:46,640
when it is full there's a sensor that
locks it and it relies on batteries and

2091
03:07:44,479 --> 03:07:52,479
there's a concern with it being outdoor
that that could be impacted um just with

2092
03:07:49,439 --> 03:07:59,680
you know when wind and rain is it could
go underneath the overhang. However,

2093
03:07:56,720 --> 03:08:03,760
» I would feel
that

2094
03:08:01,520 --> 03:08:09,439
it would be
okay to do that. Um, personally, I would

2095
03:08:07,200 --> 03:08:13,840
feel more comfortable if, you know, we
had someone

2096
03:08:12,160 --> 03:08:17,600
sort of take a look at it and see if
there was anything we can do to the

2097
03:08:15,600 --> 03:08:23,359
existing kiosk to make sure that it
would be okay underneath the overhang.

2098
03:08:20,240 --> 03:08:30,399
However, the kiosk that is designed to
be outdoors is um larger and it actually

2099
03:08:28,160 --> 03:08:36,840
accepts more sharps than the existing
kiosk. So, we would be able to um

2100
03:08:37,120 --> 03:08:45,439
spend less in between pickups. It would
be a little bit easier to maintain. Um

2101
03:08:42,560 --> 03:08:55,120
that's just one of the benefits. And
also just for reference, the

2102
03:08:50,080 --> 03:09:03,359
total cost of the kiosk for the next 10
years is only about 12% of our total

2103
03:08:58,960 --> 03:09:06,479
opioid funds that we would be receiving
just as a reference point for cost.

2104
03:09:06,000 --> 03:09:10,080
» Yeah.
>> Sir, what's the cadence for pickup?

2105
03:09:08,720 --> 03:09:13,680
» I I just want when you're done, I want
to say something. Go ahead.

2106
03:09:11,200 --> 03:09:20,560
» Oh, sorry. the cadence for pickup has
been increasing. Um

2107
03:09:16,800 --> 03:09:24,720
I have the numbers here.
Right now we're looking at about every

2108
03:09:22,399 --> 03:09:29,600
eight weeks.
I would

2109
03:09:27,680 --> 03:09:35,840
» work. I didn't even realize this was an
issue, but I my I would say let's start

2110
03:09:33,439 --> 03:09:40,479
by talking to the police and find out if
there's a way to improve responsiveness

2111
03:09:38,720 --> 03:09:44,479
because maybe it applies to other
issues. I mean maybe there are people

2112
03:09:42,080 --> 03:09:49,760
who have problems and they're not
getting a rapid response. That would be

2113
03:09:47,359 --> 03:09:55,920
an important thing and we could just
have a conversation it seems and find

2114
03:09:52,960 --> 03:10:01,120
out what you know what is the process
because obviously the easiest thing path

2115
03:09:58,640 --> 03:10:07,040
of least resistance is to just improve
responsiveness so that we you know it

2116
03:10:04,399 --> 03:10:11,720
just works the system works better. I
think

2117
03:10:07,200 --> 03:10:11,720
» it's worth looking at. Yeah, definitely.

2118
03:10:12,479 --> 03:10:22,560
Yeah. The other thing just so people
know the background too. Um when we

2119
03:10:17,359 --> 03:10:30,479
decided to do this kiosk, it was
uh I think there was an opportunity of

2120
03:10:27,040 --> 03:10:36,720
some sort. Um,
it was about safety for people at the

2121
03:10:33,680 --> 03:10:41,200
transfer station and and elsewhere that
sharps were being disposed of

2122
03:10:38,800 --> 03:10:46,399
improperly,
but there was concern within the town

2123
03:10:43,840 --> 03:10:53,520
and I think we had some special monies
or something for it. So,

2124
03:10:50,000 --> 03:11:00,000
however that worked out
across advisory and select board and

2125
03:10:56,800 --> 03:11:04,080
others, there wasn't
huge support for the idea of

2126
03:11:01,760 --> 03:11:10,080
underwriting,
you know, with tax dollars.

2127
03:11:07,040 --> 03:11:15,040
um stuff that most people in town could
afford to dispose of them, you know,

2128
03:11:13,040 --> 03:11:19,680
with the mailers.
Somearmacies provide the services. You

2129
03:11:17,840 --> 03:11:25,040
could buy a little container to put it
in and drop it off at the pharmacy. Some

2130
03:11:21,920 --> 03:11:30,720
doctor's offices take things. So, the
idea of the program growing is fine, but

2131
03:11:28,160 --> 03:11:38,080
it's for it's
funds for a specific set of people. So,

2132
03:11:35,520 --> 03:11:41,600
there's a little bit of that, you know,
but overall, we don't want the sharps

2133
03:11:39,840 --> 03:11:47,680
floating around and people coming in
contact with them. Um, but just to let

2134
03:11:45,680 --> 03:11:51,040
you know, there's that mixed sentiment
out there. I don't think it's really on

2135
03:11:49,439 --> 03:11:56,560
many people's radar unless they're
listening to this discussion. But, uh,

2136
03:11:55,760 --> 03:12:02,640
anyway,
>> I mean, there definitely some public

2137
03:11:59,279 --> 03:12:08,120
security risks by not having it. I think
there's some advantages to having to

2138
03:12:04,319 --> 03:12:08,120
being at the police station

2139
03:12:08,399 --> 03:12:16,560
and so I think
>> the police originally wanted it.

2140
03:12:13,279 --> 03:12:18,880
» What' you say? So that the police
originally wanted it there because

2141
03:12:18,560 --> 03:12:24,080
» yeah,
>> they just like the idea of having

2142
03:12:20,800 --> 03:12:29,760
oversight over both the unused
medications

2143
03:12:26,000 --> 03:12:35,600
and um which again are collected and
disposed of properly. Hopefully people

2144
03:12:32,479 --> 03:12:41,760
aren't dumping anything down their drain
uh given that we're on septics. So, um,

2145
03:12:39,840 --> 03:12:47,040
but in any case, it's right, it's a
chance for them to oversee that. Not

2146
03:12:44,000 --> 03:12:54,640
that these devices are easy to break
into for people to get the sharps.

2147
03:12:51,359 --> 03:13:01,040
» Darl, so what you brought up was
um about doctor's offices and and

2148
03:12:57,200 --> 03:13:04,640
pharmacies. Maybe maybe it's a it's an
education thing. Maybe the primary

2149
03:13:02,800 --> 03:13:08,240
source is going to be the police
station, but if people feel

2150
03:13:06,000 --> 03:13:13,040
uncomfortable about
going to the police station, then we

2151
03:13:11,040 --> 03:13:19,600
need to spell out what the alternatives
are.

2152
03:13:14,479 --> 03:13:26,240
» Yeah. And you can buy little ma return
mailer things like online x number of

2153
03:13:24,160 --> 03:13:31,040
» little containers. They're pre-labeled
and you mail them off to sterycle or

2154
03:13:28,960 --> 03:13:36,640
whatever it is that takes the stuff and
make sure to thermally treat them and

2155
03:13:33,200 --> 03:13:43,840
kill off whatever might be there and
um recycle the metal or whatever.

2156
03:13:41,040 --> 03:13:46,560
So yeah, there there are alternatives.
This is not the only.

2157
03:13:45,520 --> 03:13:52,880
» Okay.
>> Well, the So, since we have a company

2158
03:13:50,399 --> 03:13:57,840
picking up these sharps,
why don't we just move it to the

2159
03:13:54,720 --> 03:14:04,239
transfer station? People collect it in
At least that's what we do in the labs.

2160
03:14:00,080 --> 03:14:09,760
We generate sharps all the time. We have
a sharps container that we drop the

2161
03:14:06,800 --> 03:14:15,600
sharps into. And once a week there's a
company that comes and picks all these

2162
03:14:11,840 --> 03:14:20,399
boxes up. But in this case, you fill up
your box and you take it to a transfer

2163
03:14:17,520 --> 03:14:26,160
station and drop it into a designated
box in the transfer station. That that

2164
03:14:22,880 --> 03:14:31,040
would be the simplest, isn't it?
I also think that there might be a value

2165
03:14:28,319 --> 03:14:36,399
to getting the police input to the
reasons that they

2166
03:14:33,279 --> 03:14:41,040
um think it's valuable for them to have
oversight because I think there are some

2167
03:14:38,160 --> 03:14:45,279
other issues that play into that and it
might be and I think we just let's why

2168
03:14:43,840 --> 03:14:48,319
don't we just start with communicating
with them get more informed

2169
03:14:47,040 --> 03:14:53,279
» but the thing is
>> prevalent is this problem

2170
03:14:49,920 --> 03:14:59,359
» Rebecca the moment you say that
that explains why there's a stigma to

2171
03:14:56,000 --> 03:15:03,840
going to the police station. So the body
shafts that are being dropped in the

2172
03:15:01,040 --> 03:15:06,000
police station may be insulin syringes
and

2173
03:15:04,319 --> 03:15:09,439
» although of course I don't I don't know
what the prevalence of the pro of the

2174
03:15:07,840 --> 03:15:15,200
issues. That's why I'm asking. I'd just
be interested in what they're in what

2175
03:15:11,279 --> 03:15:18,960
their um what their is what are the
issues that led to

2176
03:15:16,800 --> 03:15:24,640
» just to be clear the police have
absolutely no oversight on the sharps

2177
03:15:21,520 --> 03:15:31,359
kiosk. It's just in the station. um they
don't make any of the decisions in terms

2178
03:15:27,120 --> 03:15:35,600
of picking it up, maintaining it. Um so
>> it's all all me.

2179
03:15:33,279 --> 03:15:40,960
» When you say you monitor it, you're just
monitoring how full it is or are you

2180
03:15:38,000 --> 03:15:47,600
monitoring the contents of the box?
>> I have um looked at the contents of it.

2181
03:15:43,920 --> 03:15:53,040
Um a lot of it is just sharps
containers. There are some, you know,

2182
03:15:50,399 --> 03:15:58,640
laundry detergent bottles. Um, it
doesn't accept loose sharps and I have

2183
03:15:56,000 --> 03:16:04,000
not experienced any loose sharps in the
several times that I have looked at the

2184
03:16:00,399 --> 03:16:06,880
contents. Um, I'm not a medical
professional so I don't know.

2185
03:16:05,279 --> 03:16:12,239
» Just a second. Just a second. Just so
that I understand. So, people are

2186
03:16:09,279 --> 03:16:18,239
collecting sharps into laundry detergent
bottles and dropping it at the kiosk.

2187
03:16:15,840 --> 03:16:22,960
» That's one of the accepted containers.
We've also had people put them in

2188
03:16:19,840 --> 03:16:26,800
ziplockc baggies. Um, we've had people,
but the appropriate is

2189
03:16:24,880 --> 03:16:31,359
» perfect. So, so why don't we just move
the kiosk to the transfer station? So,

2190
03:16:29,279 --> 03:16:35,840
it's I mean,
>> because it's electric, so there's a

2191
03:16:33,680 --> 03:16:41,680
concern with it being placed outdoors,
which is the the concern. And there's

2192
03:16:38,160 --> 03:16:47,040
also um that is why I would propose to
purchase an outdoor kiosk. The outdoor

2193
03:16:44,080 --> 03:16:53,120
kiosk also accepts individual sharps. It
has its own collection for that and it's

2194
03:16:49,520 --> 03:16:59,359
slightly larger. Um,
I do not know if Chrysalis would allow

2195
03:16:56,479 --> 03:17:02,960
us. It wasn't made exactly clear to me.
I can follow up more on that as well.

2196
03:17:02,000 --> 03:17:08,560
» Okay.
>> Could we have more than one? Like one at

2197
03:17:05,840 --> 03:17:13,040
the one at the transfer station and
there's more access like how and how

2198
03:17:11,120 --> 03:17:16,160
much did I'm sorry if you said this. I
apologize.

2199
03:17:14,160 --> 03:17:20,800
» Did you say the cost? Could you tell us
the cost of an out of a waterproof

2200
03:17:18,560 --> 03:17:23,600
outdoor indooroutdoor
um

2201
03:17:22,319 --> 03:17:29,520
machine?
>> Sure. So, the initial cost will be

2202
03:17:27,040 --> 03:17:35,680
$4,545
for this year, which includes the

2203
03:17:33,040 --> 03:17:43,680
initial cost of the kiosk. And I
budgeted for an additional four pickups.

2204
03:17:39,439 --> 03:17:49,600
Um, one pickup is $100 or $110,
excuse me.

2205
03:17:45,520 --> 03:17:54,720
And that will
be for this year. And then for the rest

2206
03:17:51,920 --> 03:17:59,680
of the per foreseeable future, it will
likely cost around $990 to maintain.

2207
03:17:57,600 --> 03:18:05,439
Because at the moment, we are doing
pickups every 6 to 8 weeks, more on 8

2208
03:18:03,200 --> 03:18:10,880
weeks, leaning towards 8 weeks. Because
it's a larger kiosk, I'm expecting

2209
03:18:08,319 --> 03:18:16,720
around 8 weeks for pickup. However, for
the budgeting purposes, I did overbudget

2210
03:18:13,200 --> 03:18:22,720
assuming nine pickups per year at $990
total. So, uh that's where those numbers

2211
03:18:19,359 --> 03:18:28,479
came from. And also on the towns that
have moved their locations,

2212
03:18:26,399 --> 03:18:33,439
um maybe their numbers would give us an
indication of the advantage of having

2213
03:18:31,359 --> 03:18:37,439
more anonymity
um for drop off. Is that was there a big

2214
03:18:35,840 --> 03:18:44,479
increase in that? And does that
represent like the overall society in

2215
03:18:40,560 --> 03:18:48,720
incidence of use or does it capture
um the population that was missed

2216
03:18:46,560 --> 03:18:53,840
because of its location? It's hard to
know that and differentiate that.

2217
03:18:51,359 --> 03:18:58,160
It's hard to differentiate it because
once it is moved outside um specifically

2218
03:18:56,560 --> 03:19:05,359
with the town that I did speak with
Hington, they have a contract where they

2219
03:19:02,319 --> 03:19:11,279
just do an they do a monthly pickup um
and so they don't do any further

2220
03:19:08,560 --> 03:19:16,319
investigation because it is used more
frequently. So

2221
03:19:14,160 --> 03:19:20,800
that is the understanding that I got
from them. I am more than happy to

2222
03:19:18,160 --> 03:19:26,560
continue conversing with other towns.
Somerville had the first outdoor kiosk

2223
03:19:24,720 --> 03:19:32,399
through Chrysalis. So, I'd be happy to
reach out to them as well

2224
03:19:29,359 --> 03:19:38,000
and other towns who have outdoor kiosks.
Yeah, because that's an interesting um

2225
03:19:34,800 --> 03:19:48,000
question and obviously it can represent
both of those mixed or missed um the the

2226
03:19:45,279 --> 03:19:54,640
data like is it an overall trend or is
it a loss of a a specific subset that

2227
03:19:51,600 --> 03:19:58,800
isn't using it?
But anyway,

2228
03:19:55,279 --> 03:20:04,800
» the other thing I wonder is whether
the people who really want anonymity,

2229
03:20:01,760 --> 03:20:10,000
and again recognizing that we largely
have a pretty affluent community, you

2230
03:20:08,080 --> 03:20:15,120
really wanted anonymity, you'd buy the
mailers

2231
03:20:12,000 --> 03:20:20,399
and you'd mail them in
without it's untraceable.

2232
03:20:18,560 --> 03:20:25,520
So,
um I don't I just feel like the money

2233
03:20:23,920 --> 03:20:31,439
could be better spent on some other
things than

2234
03:20:28,160 --> 03:20:36,399
than a new kiosk. Uh and just also to
back up, the oversight that the police

2235
03:20:33,600 --> 03:20:42,399
liked is just so people wasn't about
seeing who was dropping off uh unspent

2236
03:20:39,359 --> 03:20:48,479
medications and sharps. It was about
people not tampering with the machines

2237
03:20:44,319 --> 03:20:52,560
to get out those unused drugs or the
have access to sharps that they didn't

2238
03:20:50,720 --> 03:20:59,439
have to buy for people who didn't have
the money to go buy sharps. You you know

2239
03:20:55,920 --> 03:21:03,439
on an addict side of things
um because you're not getting

2240
03:21:00,800 --> 03:21:10,720
prescriptions right that are getting
filled and coming with the sharps. So

2241
03:21:06,239 --> 03:21:15,200
it's kind of a different um
They were just trying to prevent people

2242
03:21:12,319 --> 03:21:20,840
from reusing cont already contaminated
needles because they were desperate for

2243
03:21:17,600 --> 03:21:20,840
more needles

2244
03:21:23,680 --> 03:21:33,279
and not for doctors issued medications.
So anyway, yes, tricky. It's all tricky

2245
03:21:31,200 --> 03:21:37,439
though. And what else are we going to
spend the money on? But I like to think

2246
03:21:36,000 --> 03:21:41,439
there's some way we could help people
more

2247
03:21:38,479 --> 03:21:46,880
» if we had more people.
That would be the benefit of having more

2248
03:21:43,520 --> 03:21:51,200
access for the general public. Um, which
could have an advantage. Would that

2249
03:21:48,800 --> 03:21:56,319
decrease the demand for need for pickup?
Could that if we have more containers,

2250
03:21:54,239 --> 03:22:02,720
maybe we could do fewer pickups and that
would lower the cost of maintenance

2251
03:22:00,399 --> 03:22:08,239
after the obviously initial investment.
But I'm just curious.

2252
03:22:05,279 --> 03:22:15,200
» In theory, yeah, that would be the case.
That would only work if all of those

2253
03:22:10,399 --> 03:22:19,760
containers filled up at the same time.
>> Otherwise, if they're filling up at

2254
03:22:17,520 --> 03:22:27,680
staggered times, you're still having
someone come out just to pick up one

2255
03:22:22,720 --> 03:22:32,720
from one container within the town.
But if you could time it so all all of

2256
03:22:30,160 --> 03:22:37,439
them, Sure. Then it would cut the if
they you had two, wouldn't it? To pick

2257
03:22:35,520 --> 03:22:44,120
up two at once, you'd have the pickup
cost perhaps or not quite half, but

2258
03:22:41,120 --> 03:22:44,120
close.

2259
03:22:44,720 --> 03:22:52,080
So
anyway, okay. So that's just one of

2260
03:22:49,520 --> 03:22:58,479
that's probably to me the tiniest part
of our opioid funds issues. [laughter]

2261
03:22:56,239 --> 03:23:03,680
As somebody mentioned earlier, maybe was
Bose about, you know, we can

2262
03:23:01,680 --> 03:23:09,359
We could send someone to a treatment
program that could probably use up, you

2263
03:23:07,520 --> 03:23:15,520
know, if someone really needed extensive
treatment

2264
03:23:10,960 --> 03:23:19,040
uh for rehabilitation, then that could
use up all the funds we have, frankly,

2265
03:23:17,920 --> 03:23:22,720
you know. So, there's got to be
something in between that we could be

2266
03:23:20,720 --> 03:23:28,479
doing. And I'd really like to think we
could do some prevention stuff, and it'd

2267
03:23:25,920 --> 03:23:34,080
work. Um,
I don't think the town is anonymous and

2268
03:23:31,439 --> 03:23:40,399
I don't know for providing much care to
people in town.

2269
03:23:36,880 --> 03:23:46,160
I just can't imagine someone walking in
or something to the room. Yeah, we're

2270
03:23:42,560 --> 03:23:51,840
just not big enough.
>> Well, the town knows have some input

2271
03:23:48,800 --> 03:23:56,960
about this.
Oh, lots there is a lot of information

2272
03:23:54,239 --> 03:24:00,319
out there that people have written up
all different, you know, different towns

2273
03:23:58,720 --> 03:24:05,520
have produced stuff about what they've
been doing. There are a bunch of groups

2274
03:24:02,960 --> 03:24:11,600
early on who mobilized to write up
guides or different things that towns

2275
03:24:09,040 --> 03:24:15,920
could try. So, there's a wealth of
information out there.

2276
03:24:13,840 --> 03:24:22,960
» No, to make it specific through it and
seeing what would fit for us.

2277
03:24:18,960 --> 03:24:31,920
» Yeah. So, so what's the ground reality
in Sherban? Uh, is there is opioid

2278
03:24:27,279 --> 03:24:38,720
addiction a major concern? Is it I mean,
HIPPA laws would prevent us from

2279
03:24:34,080 --> 03:24:43,359
figuring things out like who is um
addicted perhaps. So,

2280
03:24:41,359 --> 03:24:45,840
» yeah, we won't know who.
>> Yeah.

2281
03:24:43,680 --> 03:24:49,520
» And it's hard for us to even know how
many,

2282
03:24:46,720 --> 03:24:54,080
» right? Because
you know in bigger cities you get

2283
03:24:51,439 --> 03:25:01,120
numbers differently because it's like
you know 332 people showed up at this

2284
03:24:58,239 --> 03:25:06,560
hospital with X problems and you're just
going to assume they're kind of from

2285
03:25:02,880 --> 03:25:11,600
somewhere nearby there but for us
>> we're close to all sorts of medical

2286
03:25:08,399 --> 03:25:17,359
centers and again
>> you know you're right there's nothing

2287
03:25:13,520 --> 03:25:21,439
right here that would tie our data Yeah.
And then they're also not reporting

2288
03:25:19,200 --> 03:25:26,319
things below five as much as they used
to. I don't know if that applies to this

2289
03:25:23,760 --> 03:25:32,040
too, but we could ask our public health
nurse what she's seeing. I know that

2290
03:25:29,040 --> 03:25:32,040
there

2291
03:25:32,239 --> 03:25:42,720
uh I feel like there was some
some count of like someone with an

2292
03:25:39,200 --> 03:25:46,880
overdose and a bad reaction something at
some point, but I honestly don't

2293
03:25:44,399 --> 03:25:52,080
remember what the number was.
>> One

2294
03:25:49,120 --> 03:25:56,960
one in some number of years. I don't
know.

2295
03:25:54,800 --> 03:26:02,640
» Yeah.
So that data actually is available

2296
03:25:58,880 --> 03:26:08,000
through um the through BSAS. They
collect hospitalization data and they

2297
03:26:05,040 --> 03:26:16,640
use patient information about where they
either have primary residence or um

2298
03:26:13,279 --> 03:26:23,200
their permanent residence. And we do
know that in between July of 2024 and

2299
03:26:19,760 --> 03:26:27,120
June of 2025 there were 32 substance
related hospitalizations.

2300
03:26:25,200 --> 03:26:31,279
Now a substance related hospitalization
could be anything from alcohol to

2301
03:26:28,960 --> 03:26:35,840
opioids to
um anything within sort of that is

2302
03:26:33,840 --> 03:26:39,279
considered a substance related
hospitalization in the emergency

2303
03:26:37,600 --> 03:26:46,160
department.
They do say that those numbers are

2304
03:26:41,439 --> 03:26:50,960
collected um specifically from
two different data sources. Um I just

2305
03:26:48,880 --> 03:26:53,960
want to make sure that I'm quoting these
correctly.

2306
03:26:54,560 --> 03:27:00,960
Um,
>> could substance also be a prescribed

2307
03:26:58,160 --> 03:27:08,080
medication that wasn't,
you know, that just had a bad

2308
03:27:04,160 --> 03:27:12,239
effect or is it abuse?
>> It's generally they generally track more

2309
03:27:10,319 --> 03:27:16,160
acute cases. So, anything that would
have to do with a chronic condition is

2310
03:27:14,080 --> 03:27:21,040
not going to be considered a substance
related hospitalization through the

2311
03:27:18,479 --> 03:27:24,880
emergency department. Um, that's my
understanding of the data set. I'd be

2312
03:27:22,640 --> 03:27:29,600
happy to send it over and uh if you want
to look at it more together, we can. But

2313
03:27:27,680 --> 03:27:35,279
just to sort of answer your question as
to the prevalence in Shervern, um there

2314
03:27:32,720 --> 03:27:41,760
have been several overdose deaths in
Sherburn that we know of through the um

2315
03:27:40,080 --> 03:27:46,920
through
the burial agent work. Um,

2316
03:27:47,359 --> 03:27:53,840
» really?
>> I know that there there is one cuz

2317
03:27:50,800 --> 03:28:00,520
somebody spoke up at town meeting once
when we were talking about when we were

2318
03:27:56,319 --> 03:28:00,520
first getting the opioid funds.

2319
03:28:08,239 --> 03:28:11,239
» Okay.

2320
03:28:12,319 --> 03:28:16,319
So
>> the other thing we wonder is whether we

2321
03:28:14,640 --> 03:28:24,160
could
help fund programs in another town that

2322
03:28:19,840 --> 03:28:31,399
then we somehow recommend that people go
there again if they want the anonymity

2323
03:28:39,840 --> 03:28:48,479
anyway. Okay. Um, now it's super duper
late.

2324
03:28:45,760 --> 03:28:55,920
» Uh,
all right. So, lots more

2325
03:28:51,760 --> 03:29:01,120
on that. Um, I don't see too many people
on and I'm kind of wondering

2326
03:28:59,200 --> 03:29:05,920
if
>> there's nobody from the public still

2327
03:29:02,960 --> 03:29:10,000
here, Darl. It's just the board and
>> Yeah.

2328
03:29:06,319 --> 03:29:14,880
» And myself. Lightning. Yeah.
Um,

2329
03:29:11,600 --> 03:29:23,439
I was thinking that we can move our
presentation of on discussion of mass D

2330
03:29:20,319 --> 03:29:29,920
method for determining limited septic
system capacity

2331
03:29:26,560 --> 03:29:33,680
» when design records unavailable.
>> Sure.

2332
03:29:30,560 --> 03:29:38,960
» Another time and the same with if it's
okay with people only because now it's

2333
03:29:36,239 --> 03:29:43,439
10:33.
Um

2334
03:29:40,800 --> 03:29:51,359
and then the permitting solid waste
haulers. We do need to move on that to

2335
03:29:45,600 --> 03:29:57,760
some degree. Did look over the forms. Um
>> I like the carile form.

2336
03:29:54,800 --> 03:30:00,960
» Yes, I like the car the best by far.
>> It's got a lot more information than the

2337
03:29:59,359 --> 03:30:03,960
others.
>> Yeah.

2338
03:30:04,239 --> 03:30:15,120
And then the only thing I'd like to see
is not tonnage but volume capacity of

2339
03:30:10,720 --> 03:30:18,960
trucks. I think we'd do better with
volume

2340
03:30:16,720 --> 03:30:24,319
than with someone else's estimate of
tonnage because there are, you know,

2341
03:30:21,520 --> 03:30:33,520
kind of average weight of a cubic yard
of of uh recyclables

2342
03:30:29,439 --> 03:30:38,960
and versus solid waste. Um, I think we'd
do better that way than them trying to

2343
03:30:36,080 --> 03:30:45,120
maybe underestimate or not having any
clue as to how much it weighed. I don't

2344
03:30:42,160 --> 03:30:50,319
think we should rely on their tonnage.
>> Personal opinion of working with

2345
03:30:48,080 --> 03:30:54,800
» companies waste.
>> The only comment I had was I wasn't sure

2346
03:30:52,399 --> 03:30:58,600
why why they asked for workers
compensation insurance.

2347
03:30:58,640 --> 03:31:07,040
I would say that's pretty standard for
our permits. We require workers

2348
03:31:03,600 --> 03:31:14,080
compensation insurance for our um this
for our SE hauler permits as well. Um

2349
03:31:11,920 --> 03:31:18,640
and for for some of the food permits we
require insurance as well.

2350
03:31:16,560 --> 03:31:21,640
» Yeah, I would think you want the vehicle
insurance.

2351
03:31:21,680 --> 03:31:30,880
» The vehicle insurance is required in
Dover. um

2352
03:31:27,840 --> 03:31:35,200
the vehicle registration and then the
certificate for insurance for public

2353
03:31:33,120 --> 03:31:39,520
liability and their property insurance
is required in Carlilele Dover here.

2354
03:31:38,080 --> 03:31:44,000
Sorry, I thought I was sharing my
screen. Um

2355
03:31:42,560 --> 03:31:50,640
so when it comes to insurance,
>> certificate of liability insurance that

2356
03:31:46,640 --> 03:31:57,040
Carile has uh indicated
and then it'll say you can ask for that.

2357
03:31:53,920 --> 03:32:01,040
Well, the certificate will list what the
insurance is that someone has and what

2358
03:31:58,880 --> 03:32:06,399
it covers.
>> Yeah. So, this is a little

2359
03:32:04,239 --> 03:32:10,160
» Yeah. vehicle stuff
>> information.

2360
03:32:08,640 --> 03:32:14,080
» Yeah.
No, that's pretty standard for a lot of

2361
03:32:12,319 --> 03:32:20,000
things, especially stuff like this. And
then for the workers, they are

2362
03:32:17,120 --> 03:32:25,040
if people are not managing their sharps
properly, you know, they've got to make

2363
03:32:22,960 --> 03:32:28,800
sure that
they're doing something for their

2364
03:32:26,399 --> 03:32:34,880
workers, some protection, hopefully
training,

2365
03:32:31,040 --> 03:32:39,560
and appropriate
u gloves and all the rest.

2366
03:32:41,200 --> 03:32:48,000
And I had a couple ideas about some
additions for this.

2367
03:32:46,160 --> 03:32:54,800
» Yeah, I'd love to hear your ideas for
additions because um my goal would be to

2368
03:32:51,680 --> 03:32:58,880
have the first draft to the board for
the next meeting. So that way um we can

2369
03:32:57,200 --> 03:33:03,760
get the board's feedback on the initial
draft and then I can bring it to the

2370
03:33:01,920 --> 03:33:09,200
working group and the other stakeholders
in town to get their secondary feedback

2371
03:33:06,720 --> 03:33:14,640
and then bring it back to the board um
in October per the initial timeline we

2372
03:33:12,080 --> 03:33:19,680
discussed. Um
>> so like we're here so I would like to

2373
03:33:17,200 --> 03:33:25,880
have the initial
draft by the first meeting in September

2374
03:33:22,000 --> 03:33:25,880
and so on and so forth.

2375
03:33:26,160 --> 03:33:33,359
So any feedback is is welcome. I've been
taking some notes.

2376
03:33:30,000 --> 03:33:37,439
» Yeah, I have some notes.
>> Yeah. Also feel free to send me an email

2377
03:33:35,200 --> 03:33:46,160
with it.
>> Okay. And then um

2378
03:33:41,920 --> 03:33:53,760
again, if people are dying to talk about
food permit fees and applications, we

2379
03:33:50,479 --> 03:34:01,200
could. I'm still finding it, you know,
it's a complicated thing. I'd love to

2380
03:33:56,720 --> 03:34:05,120
find a way to simplify it. I did
on that at the beginning of the summer

2381
03:34:03,279 --> 03:34:10,239
and June or whatever whenever that was
first available and I haven't looked at

2382
03:34:07,840 --> 03:34:14,560
it again, but there's still I still
think there are things we might be able

2383
03:34:11,680 --> 03:34:18,880
to simplify a little bit more.
>> Um, I did create two documents that were

2384
03:34:17,040 --> 03:34:24,160
in the meeting document folders that
were sort of just summaries. um they

2385
03:34:21,439 --> 03:34:30,000
were a little bit more concise
in explaining rather like the full

2386
03:34:27,200 --> 03:34:34,000
» Yeah, I still think there's some room
for further streamlining.

2387
03:34:33,200 --> 03:34:39,840
» Okay.
>> But it's not simple because it's

2388
03:34:35,920 --> 03:34:47,200
complicated bunch of information. Um
kind of repetitive but with some nuances

2389
03:34:42,960 --> 03:34:54,000
here and there. So, uh,
feels like it's there's maybe an easier

2390
03:34:49,760 --> 03:34:59,560
way though. Maybe not. I don't know.
Um,

2391
03:34:56,560 --> 03:34:59,560
okay.

2392
03:35:01,359 --> 03:35:08,800
Are people okay? If we're not, you know,
we have some things we can slide next

2393
03:35:06,399 --> 03:35:15,880
time, maybe with more amendments so that
it'll be easier to rebuild faster

2394
03:35:12,479 --> 03:35:15,880
in a meeting.

2395
03:35:18,479 --> 03:35:26,239
And is anyone feeling badly about having
a discussion about the determining

2396
03:35:23,760 --> 03:35:32,160
septic system capacity and design flow
records are unavailable?

2397
03:35:28,640 --> 03:35:38,000
The simplest answer for that is our
standard procedure and the one

2398
03:35:35,279 --> 03:35:44,239
recommended to us by D
is that when you really have no plans,

2399
03:35:40,560 --> 03:35:51,120
no asbuilt plans that were definitely uh
for approved plans on record

2400
03:35:48,399 --> 03:35:56,800
that you go with
the um

2401
03:35:53,840 --> 03:36:01,040
records as close to when you think the
dwelling was built. because there are

2402
03:35:59,120 --> 03:36:06,080
noise accessories records for some of
the antique homes in town. So, we might

2403
03:36:03,760 --> 03:36:09,680
not even have that. But you get as early
as you can and see what they thought the

2404
03:36:08,160 --> 03:36:15,920
building once.
>> Yeah, if I can answer.

2405
03:36:13,200 --> 03:36:19,760
» Yeah, that's 100% correct. And that's
the process that we've been using all

2406
03:36:17,600 --> 03:36:23,040
these years. So, you go with the
assessment records.

2407
03:36:21,279 --> 03:36:28,319
» If there's nothing else available,
confirmed by DP many of times, there's

2408
03:36:26,319 --> 03:36:33,200
nothing else. So that's that's all we
have to our options, you know, to look

2409
03:36:30,720 --> 03:36:38,800
into bedroom count. But no, I agree with
you 100%.

2410
03:36:35,840 --> 03:36:47,520
» Yeah.
>> Okay. Um but we'll have opportunities

2411
03:36:43,200 --> 03:36:53,279
soon to apply that methodology and go
through it in detail. And we did it, you

2412
03:36:49,760 --> 03:36:57,920
know, recently kind of through
other properties.

2413
03:36:55,439 --> 03:37:03,120
Doesn't come up so frequently, thank
goodness. But again, with our older

2414
03:37:00,560 --> 03:37:06,120
properties in town, it has been a
challenge.

2415
03:37:08,239 --> 03:37:14,399
Any chance anyone would like to make a
motion to adjourn the meeting?

2416
03:37:12,479 --> 03:37:18,399
» Darl, did you want to talk about the
next meeting agenda?

2417
03:37:16,640 --> 03:37:25,279
» Yeah. Well, now we're going to be moving
a few of these things on there. The fee

2418
03:37:22,160 --> 03:37:30,960
waver policy and this and the waist
haulers.

2419
03:37:27,840 --> 03:37:34,960
» Um, for sure and and possibly that
discussion about the methodology, but

2420
03:37:32,960 --> 03:37:40,120
again, maybe we'll have an example come
up and we'll just get to play it out in

2421
03:37:36,880 --> 03:37:40,120
real life.

2422
03:37:44,880 --> 03:37:49,920
um
>> uh peer reviewers.

2423
03:37:48,319 --> 03:37:55,920
» Yep.
>> Hopefully for next time. Does anyone

2424
03:37:52,880 --> 03:37:58,920
want to be part of reviewing the peer
reviewers?

2425
03:38:00,640 --> 03:38:09,120
I could believe Julie would be possibly
willing to do that, but I won't

2426
03:38:05,600 --> 03:38:17,840
volunteer her in her absence.
Um we also from the public health nurse

2427
03:38:12,720 --> 03:38:23,439
will likely be um having some uh an
update and sort of a discussion on ticks

2428
03:38:20,000 --> 03:38:27,840
and tickornne illnesses. Um
>> stemming from the conversation that we

2429
03:38:25,359 --> 03:38:32,479
had today. Uh this I did bring this up
to her last week and uh she would like

2430
03:38:30,399 --> 03:38:36,080
to you know come to a meeting and we can
talk about it some more and answer

2431
03:38:33,920 --> 03:38:39,760
questions and just
>> reminding people that tick season

2432
03:38:37,680 --> 03:38:43,239
doesn't end in September. Uh Rebecca
you're still muted.

2433
03:38:44,880 --> 03:38:50,399
» Still muted.
>> Sorry. No, I know. Sorry. I forgot I

2434
03:38:47,680 --> 03:38:55,520
actually just muted myself a second ago.
Um the I'm also happy to talk about some

2435
03:38:54,080 --> 03:38:58,520
of the clinical part if anyone's
interested

2436
03:38:58,640 --> 03:39:07,120
» on
>> but if that is better in the if that's a

2437
03:39:02,720 --> 03:39:12,760
better um subject for like a clinical
presentation like a if we have an

2438
03:39:09,040 --> 03:39:12,760
evening or something

2439
03:39:13,840 --> 03:39:23,120
» that could be yeah maybe it'd be easier
right

2440
03:39:19,600 --> 03:39:28,000
Okay, that that could work.
Then people could ask them, you know,

2441
03:39:26,080 --> 03:39:32,960
» I could give a big I could give a whole
on it, but um you know, because it's

2442
03:39:31,120 --> 03:39:36,680
complicated, but it's also really
relevant and interesting.

2443
03:39:41,600 --> 03:39:44,600
» Okay.

2444
03:39:46,000 --> 03:39:49,000
Actually,

2445
03:39:49,600 --> 03:39:55,680
maybe you should meet with the uh public
health nurse about

2446
03:39:53,920 --> 03:39:59,359
» That's what I was thinking. I'd be I'd
be totally happy to meet with her about

2447
03:39:57,920 --> 03:40:02,080
it. We could maybe put something
together.

2448
03:40:01,600 --> 03:40:06,399
» And I'm sure
>> there do it that way.

2449
03:40:05,439 --> 03:40:11,680
» Sorry.
>> I think I think it'd be more productive

2450
03:40:08,960 --> 03:40:15,600
just going to that
route rather than at a meeting. And also

2451
03:40:13,840 --> 03:40:20,880
because our meetings are going to be
getting longer and longer as we're

2452
03:40:17,120 --> 03:40:26,560
dealing with these two projects.
>> Maybe Sarah and I I'll call Sarah and we

2453
03:40:24,160 --> 03:40:29,279
can do we can figure out the best way to
do it.

2454
03:40:27,520 --> 03:40:35,239
» Yeah, that works.
>> Okay. All right. Thanks.

2455
03:40:31,439 --> 03:40:35,239
» Perfect. Okay.

2456
03:40:35,600 --> 03:40:42,880
Anyone ready to move the closing of the
meeting?

2457
03:40:39,840 --> 03:40:50,560
» Uh yeah, I can make a motion. Uh like to
make a motion to close tonight's adjourn

2458
03:40:46,880 --> 03:40:53,560
tonight's board of health meeting.
>> Second.

2459
03:40:53,840 --> 03:41:01,359
» Any further discussion?
Hearing none. Daryl Beardsley I.

2460
03:40:59,520 --> 03:41:05,319
» Steve Constantine I.
>> Rebecca Hane I.

2461
03:41:06,720 --> 03:41:09,680
» And
>> all right. Good night everyone.

2462
03:41:09,200 --> 03:41:15,920
Thanks.
>> I didn't really know that the uh folks

2463
03:41:12,080 --> 03:41:18,880
from Metobrook were coming tonight. Did
you know, Sarah? I didn't know that they

2464
03:41:18,080 --> 03:41:24,880
were going to come.
>> I did not know. No, can't say I did.

2465
03:41:21,680 --> 03:41:31,520
» Yeah, but I am very happy that they did
because I we needed all this information

2466
03:41:28,080 --> 03:41:36,399
that we hadn't seen yet. Um
>> just for the minute.

2467
03:41:34,319 --> 03:41:43,858
» Sorry. Just wanted to note for myself in
the future that it's 10:45.

2468
03:41:39,200 --> 03:41:45,878
» Yeah. Well, everyone have a great night.
[music]