[0:01] a review and introduction what it's
about. We'd like to do that
[0:03] uninterrupted just let them go through
and completed and then after that we'll
[0:08] have a couple guidelines and get
>> text
[0:15] recorded.
[0:22] » Good evening everyone. Uh my name is
Todd Ziggler. Uh appreciate you coming
[0:26] out tonight. Some of you folks I may
have already talked to. I know we got
[0:29] several phone calls. Appreciate that as
well. I'm going to go through I'm not
[0:34] going to bore you all night long. I
could talk about this for quite a while,
[0:37] but I'll try to sum it up maybe in about
10 minutes just to give you an overview
[0:42] of how we got to where we are tonight.
Okay.
[0:46] All right. So, um first thing is uh
zoning districts. Uh Shrewsbury Township
[0:52] has uh what do we got here? 2 4 6 eight
different zoning districts. uh from
[0:58] rural residential to rural residential
receiving districts, a district,
[1:02] commercial, interchange, industrial. I
know this map isn't the greatest to to
[1:07] see from, and I'm going to jump back and
forth here to see my screen a little
[1:11] better. Um,
but the particular properties we're
[1:16] talking about resoning tonight, if you
can see on the screen there where my
[1:20] cursor is moving,
um, right in here, this is where we're
[1:25] talking about tonight. This of course is
the overall township as a whole which is
[1:30] almost 30 square miles.
Uh for those that aren't aware,
[1:34] Shrewsbury Township actually surrounds
New Freedom Burough, Railroad Burough,
[1:38] Glenrock Burrow, and Shrewsbury Burrow.
So the areas that you see with the white
[1:43] background here, this is Glenn Rock
Burough, this is Shrewsbury Burrow, this
[1:49] is Railroad Burrow right here, and then
this is New Freedom Burrow. Um so what
[1:54] you see as far as the industrial is just
smaller area which is just north of
[1:59] where we're located right now. Uh this
side of uh 80 between 83 and the trail.
[2:06] This section right here we're sitting in
right now is this section right here
[2:10] which is a commercial. We have a couple
of other little commercial areas down in
[2:15] here around 851 exit 4 interchange.
uh where you see the yellow which is I
[2:23] imagine most of you are probably from
I'm guessing Strawberry Fields maybe
[2:27] Hamilton's Overlook. Strawberry Fields
is suburban residential.
[2:33] Hamilton's Overlook is rural residential
receiving and I'll explain what those
[2:37] are differently the difference between
those as we go on. Um the uh suburban
[2:44] residential receiving rural residential
receiving the suburban residential
[2:49] receiving is these orange areas here
which as you can see is not very much.
[2:56] Um then the rural residential receiving
this area here is what we know as
[3:02] Hamilton's overlook.
That's rural residential receiving and
[3:07] that's the areas we're talking about now
possibly reszoning. That's currently
[3:11] rural residential receiving.
And then of course as you can see
[3:15] everything else it's green is all
agricultural zones.
[3:24] Now the the differences mostly between
rural residential receiving and suburban
[3:29] residential receiving. Um, both of those
are designed to receive
[3:36] development rights from the agricultural
zoning district. So, in order to develop
[3:41] anything in the receiving district, you
have to purchase development rights from
[3:45] a land owner in the agricultural
district. Without those, you can't do
[3:50] any development in a receiving district.
That's in both zones. Um
[3:56] rural residential is a lower density.
Suburban residential is a medium to a
[4:03] higher density.
Now the rural residential you can also
[4:08] um institutional facilities are also
permitted. They are not in the suburban
[4:13] residential. is receiving
then with the rural residential
[4:19] which again is the area we're talking
about tonight and also Hamilton's
[4:23] overlook
those areas can be developed with on lot
[4:27] water wells and on lot septic in the
suburban residential you need to have
[4:33] public water and public sewer you can't
do on lot
[4:39] one of the challenges right now for
suburban residential receiving is
[4:43] there's absolutely absolutely no sewer
capacity available.
[4:47] So, suburban residential, you can't
develop today if they want to
[4:52] unless a developer comes in and has
enough money and is willing to upgrade
[4:57] the sewer plant. That's the only way
they're going to get sewer capacity. Not
[5:01] saying it can't happen, but that's only
going to happen. There is no capacity
[5:05] available at the sewer plant.
>> Can you just hold on? Let me get through
[5:10] this. I I I we want everybody's
questions, but hoping maybe I can answer
[5:15] your questions as we go through here
talk through
[5:18] » but we'll we'll certainly answer
everyone's questions.
[5:22] Um, I want to explain development rights
just briefly because I know people ask
[5:27] me what is a development right? And I
don't know if you can see this chart
[5:32] well or not, but
the development right program was
[5:37] established in November of 1976.
It's when the township developed their
[5:42] first zoning ordinance.
And what they did in order, it's part of
[5:46] their farmland preservation
and open space preservation program is
[5:53] they limit the amount of development
within the egg district. So give you an
[5:58] example here.
[6:02] If you look at a 100 acre farm, which is
the third one up from the bottom on
[6:07] November 10,
they would have had six development
[6:11] rights.
One of those rights must remain with the
[6:15] main tract at all times. So that means
they have five available. Well, what can
[6:20] they do with those five? They could
either subdivide lots off of the egg
[6:26] parcel, but each of those lots cannot
exceed more than 1.2 acres.
[6:32] That way, you can't carve up a 100 acre
farm and make 20 acre parcels.
[6:38] or they can sell those development
rights into a receiving district
[6:43] uh into a residential area.
Now, I know we've had people have come
[6:48] in and they bought purchase farms and
they're like, "Well, you know, today I
[6:53] have,
you know, 90 acres." But what they
[6:57] forget is
if you buy a track that's 90 acres and
[7:01] you want to know if you have development
rights, we have to trace the history of
[7:05] that track back to November 1976.
So if those five lots were either subbed
[7:12] off already or they were sold to a
receiving district or a combination
[7:16] thereof, you have no more development
rights. So that's the max you ever get
[7:20] in a lifetime.
So it's not like it resets every time
[7:25] you sell five sell the farm does not
reset. So and that's the purpose of
[7:32] receiving district to get those
development rights out of the egg
[7:37] and into a residential district.
Um,
[7:43] now if you look again, I pointed out
do it from up here
[7:50] jumping back and forth here.
[7:54] Of course, this is all the township.
This is a specific area that we're
[7:58] talking about. Um, this here is
Hamilton's overlook. This is Campbell
[8:03] Road. This is Strawberry Fields West.
This is Miller Park right here,
[8:11] uh, Campbell Road. And then this area in
the blue is the area that we're uh is
[8:16] being proposed for reszoning from the
rural residential receiving to the
[8:21] suburban residential receiving.
[8:28] This is uh an outline showing the
affected parcels. Again, this is Miller
[8:32] Park.
Um, this is part of the Miller Farm
[8:39] that goes up here. Now, this side of the
road is already zoned suburban
[8:43] residential receiving.
[8:51] Now, the designated growth area, the
comprehensive plan,
[8:55] that is a plan that is developed.
It's not it's not law. It's not legal.
[9:02] It's just a planning tool for the
elected officials to take a long range
[9:08] plan and long range look at what they
how they want to see the township in the
[9:13] future. We are part of a regional
comprehensive plan group, the Southern
[9:18] York County Regional Planning
Commission, which again consists of all
[9:22] four of the burrs that I mentioned as
well as Shbury Township. And if you look
[9:26] here,
[9:29] this uh I call it dark purple here in
the 2010 comprehensive plan showed it as
[9:37] future
growth area.
[9:42] Um this area up here, the the lighter
blue is like a secondary and then the
[9:46] red is a primary growth area.
Primary growth area is what you see in
[9:53] the red and this is actually Miller Park
and part of the Miller farm is already
[9:57] identified as a primary growth area. So
we have the area right here that we're
[10:02] talking about considering the reszoning
and then again Hamilton's overlook down
[10:06] here was a
uh future growth area.
[10:14] I wanted to read something to you here.
Um,
[10:18] and this is out of the 2010
comprehensive plan cuz might be asking
[10:23] what is the future growth area? What
does that mean? Um, reading directly out
[10:27] of the comp plan, the future growth area
has been established to indicate where
[10:32] development is most appropriate beyond a
10-year time frame or if development
[10:38] should occur at a much greater pace than
anticipated.
[10:42] This area was chosen due to its
proximity of the burrows and the
[10:45] amenities provided therein, its location
adjacent to current public utilities and
[10:51] the availability of connecting
transportation routes. So again, as we
[10:56] looked at back here a little bit,
this area here,
[11:02] you know, we we already have Hamilton's
overlook. We have Strawberry Fields. We
[11:07] have Strawberry Fields the other side of
Sesuana Trail. Then we get up into the
[11:12] burrow, Southern Farms. Then you have
New Freedom Burrow to the west. And then
[11:18] to the northwest, you have railroad. So
that's where we already have the the
[11:22] higher density residential development.
And from a planning perspective, that's
[11:26] where you want to keep it. Again, that's
where the public utilities are and so
[11:30] forth.
[11:37] Now this here
slide
[11:41] yellow is an outline of the existing
Miller family tract
[11:49] and as I had mentioned this area here I
say to the northeast of Strawberry Road
[11:56] is already zone suburban residential
receiving.
[12:01] This is the area that is rural
residential receiving including this
[12:05] parcel here which is the Raymar tract
and the township is in the process of
[12:12] negotiating with the Miller family to
purchase it's about 13 acres
[12:17] right here uh immediately to the I guess
you would call that to the west to the
[12:24] west of Miller Park. Miller Park is
currently 22 acres and this would be an
[12:28] additional 13 acres added to the park.
So with with that purchase, if that all
[12:36] materializes,
we're going to be losing that
[12:39] development capacity under the suburban
residential which does allow a higher
[12:43] density
and we need to have receiving districts
[12:47] in order to be able to accommodate the
use of those development rights from the
[12:52] agricultural district. So that's the
intent is to reszone this area over here
[12:59] suburban residential receiving to help
offset what's going to be lost if
[13:04] there's a park and open space
uh that if that materializes and goes
[13:09] through here.
[13:13] Now just to give you an idea um this is
the Miller farm the subdivision again if
[13:18] it materializes
everything you see here in this green or
[13:23] some shade of green is the tract. This
tract here would be four tracks. This
[13:30] would become part of Miller Park
13 acres. This area here those that are
[13:36] familiar there's a pond I believe down
back here. It's the old farmhouse uh on
[13:40] this tract.
This larger tract here
[13:45] is open field right now. And then
there's a piece of the property that's
[13:51] between two existing homes on these two
separate lots.
[13:55] This piece would be subbed off,
subdivided and attached to this property
[14:00] right here.
Um, so that's what the subdivision would
[14:04] be. important to understand the
subdivision that's proposed here in
[14:08] conjunction with the resoning is the
separation of land only. I know a couple
[14:13] calls I got um people are wondering well
is there a housing development coming?
[14:18] I'm not aware
of anyone that's talking to developers
[14:23] at this point in time. Um if and when
that ever happens, they have to come
[14:28] back before this body, the township
planning commission. They need to
[14:32] provide full detailed plan showing the
subdivision of each individual lot like
[14:37] they did with Hamilton's Overlook. Um
they'll have to address everything
[14:41] that's in the ordinance. Um including
traffic. I know I had some questions
[14:45] about traffic. You know, they'll have to
do traffic studies including at the
[14:50] intersections. Um more than likely if it
happens, they would have to widen the
[14:55] road. Even a possibility of traffic
signal. Um, I'm sure everyone's familiar
[15:00] with the traffic signal at the end of
Campbell Road and just run a trail.
[15:06] The only reason that traffic signal is
there because Hamilton's overlook went
[15:09] in and that's what warranted that
traffic signal. I'm not saying there
[15:12] would be a traffic signal. I'm just
saying if there's some kind of uh
[15:17] traffic control devices that need to be
installed, it would probably be the
[15:21] result of of something being developed.
Um, and again, um, I I'm sure everybody
[15:27] probably understands now just through
this conversation,
[15:30] but I know a couple of the conversations
I had, some folks didn't realize that
[15:35] that can actually be all developed today
into homes whether or not this happens
[15:41] because it's already zone residential
and it's already zoned a receding
[15:46] district. Um
the uh one of the questions that someone
[15:52] asked me, so I thought I'm going to
share the information. Um they asked
[15:55] what the purchase price is. [snorts] The
uh purchase price that we're negotiating
[15:59] with the Miller family is $275,000.
Um we had two independent appraisals
[16:07] done. Um and the uh one came in at June
of 23, which was $250,000.
[16:16] The Miller family asked for it to be
reappraised. We used the same appraiser.
[16:21] Uh April of 24 came in at 265,000.
And as far as the purchase, how we're
[16:27] going to pay for it, um the township was
very fortunate to receive um I have
[16:34] 180,000. it should be $280,000
in uh grants, two separate grants that
[16:39] we received that would pay for it, pay
for the purchase as well as some of the
[16:43] engineering and the surveying and the
legal costs.
[16:47] Um and again, the reasonzoning uh
proposal that did go through the
[16:52] township planning commission at a public
meeting, they did recommend approval.
[16:57] The proposal also went to the York
County Planning Commission. uh their
[17:01] organization reviewed it and at a public
meeting they recommended approval of the
[17:06] uh resoning as well. I think that's all
I had. So get back to the chair.
[17:13] » Thank you Tom. I think that
[clears throat] should be good
[17:15] background for everybody. A couple
guidelines before we open it for
[17:19] comments to try to make the best use of
the time we have. Um you have a maximum
[17:24] of five minutes. We will time that. We
will let you know when you have one
[17:28] minute left and you you must stop at
that point in time even if you haven't
[17:33] finished your presentation. Um we will
ask you once not just right now but once
[17:39] we start maybe to line up three or four
people at a time at the microphone so we
[17:43] can quickly move from one person to the
other. Um if someone has already said
[17:49] what you want to say you don't need to
repeat that. You certainly wouldn't
[17:53] heard it. So we would ask you not to
take the time to repeat it. And if
[17:58] you're here with a group, we would ask
you to select the spokesman for the
[18:02] group so that we can move through things
uh a little bit faster. Um with that, we
[18:07] will open up public comment. Um again,
if you could come up to the microphone
[18:13] and line up a few people that speak
loudly into the microphone if you can so
[18:19] that people who are on YouTube and other
places can understand. [clears throat]
[18:23] So you're going to have to decide who
goes first. We're not going to
[18:27] So, um, if somebody would like to take
it first and if a few people would line
[18:32] up behind that person, we can we can
keep it moving. And if you just want to
[18:37] sit there and listen, that's fine, too.
>> And if you state your name and address
[18:42] as you come up to the microphone.
>> Good evening. My name is Douglas Zen Zs
[18:48] and Zebra. IN. I live at 116 Abbey Road.
And um I have I just hopefully I can
[18:55] just go about this quickly. My concern
is the proposed change in zoning for
[19:00] Strawberry Road since I live there. I
learned it's important to know that I
[19:04] learned about the proposed expansion of
zoning options when I received the mail
[19:09] flyer. I had no previous knowledge. I
was shocked. It's only been a couple
[19:13] like three weeks. I did my best to read
the flyer, research online, and then I
[19:18] did speak with Todd Zoo on several
occasions. And I appreciate that.
[19:23] What I learned, it was quite
interesting. One is that the expanded
[19:27] options for buildings along Strawberry
Road is already permitted. If I'm wrong,
[19:32] just tell me I'm wrong. But my
understanding is they do have the
[19:35] ability to expand from one to two um
buildings per acre.
[19:42] » Correct. on on Strawberry Road, the part
that would be proposed for the park and
[19:46] the residual that Miller family and then
the area that's proposed for reszoning
[19:50] on the west side of Strawberry Road.
Both of those areas are both receiving.
[19:55] So that is correct. They would both
require development rights. Then I then
[19:59] I also learned that the change from
rural residential receiving to suburban
[20:03] residential receiving will permit single
family attached dwellings or semi-
[20:08] detached dwellings or multif family
dwellings and or active adult community
[20:14] buildings. And I understand that could
also include homes that have a fake
[20:19] front. You have three families living in
what appears to be a single family home,
[20:24] but it's actually a multifamily home.
But the is designed to represent a
[20:30] single family home. I'm not sure why.
Maybe it looks better. I also understand
[20:34] that acceptable sewage and utility
resources as you mentioned must be
[20:38] available in the roadways water
availability runoffs.
[20:42] » Microphone.
>> Well, it's on. We'll we'll turn it up
[20:47] here.
>> Speak louder. I don't mind.
[20:52] » Okay. So, I also
>> if you can speak into the microphone. I
[20:56] also there I also understand that
acceptable sewage utility resources must
[21:00] be available that roadways water
availability runoffs and other reserves
[21:04] must be available and will dictate what
can ultimately can occur. I also learned
[21:10] that the publish this is this is
fascinating. I learned that the
[21:13] published criteria for this purpose was
to be quote unquote short, concise, and
[21:19] free of technical jargon that would make
it challen challenging for lay people to
[21:24] read. Supposed to be easy for for us to
understand. I will say that I'm highly
[21:30] educated on a short couple credits of a
PhD.
[21:34] I have worked in federal, state, and
local government in responsible high
[21:38] responsible positions for 44 years. And
I find this process bewildering. It was
[21:44] so complex. I've spent hours and hours
over the last few weeks reviewing and
[21:49] trying to make sense of it. I also found
out that the project was to clearly
[21:54] represent the priorities that township
leaders and residents said were
[21:57] important. How was this accomplished?
Did you have a meeting? This is the
[22:02] first I heard this whole what was going
on was three weeks ago, but this had
[22:07] been obviously going on for a year or so
or longer.
[22:11] However, and these two things are
critical. I strongly question the verbal
[22:16] and written instructions for the project
since I only learned about them three
[22:21] weeks ago. I don't understand how public
concurrence was achieved when only four
[22:26] people, including me, that means three
other people called the township and
[22:31] only three persons supposedly who were
involved in the October 15th planning
[22:35] commission meeting. Not sure if that's
the right meeting. So, you don't have
[22:39] like 100 people from the communities,
two large communities, you have six
[22:45] people maybe thinking and commenting
something's not something doesn't feel
[22:49] right. Okay. So, what do I what is my
conclusion? I love the Strawberry Fields
[22:54] community which is beautiful, idyllic,
and appropriately designed. I can
[22:59] understand single family home structures
for the community consistent with what
[23:04] has occurred in the immediate area in
the past. We are I think on 230 acre
[23:09] lots your the other development has I
think half acre lots. I understand all
[23:14] that. I don't know why.
>> One minute remaining.
[23:17] » I don't understand why we can't be
consistent with that. If you need to
[23:20] expand residential community, utilize
only single family building structures
[23:25] on one acre of lots. Retain what we
have. Preserve and do not destroy what
[23:30] already exists. Be sensitive and
representative to the people you serve
[23:35] as these flyers which I'm going to give
you represent. And I just show the
[23:39] people in the audience. This is the
flyer and I'll show give these to you
[23:43] all. Says I will and shows a picture of
a farm. It says I will never understand
[23:47] how someone saw this and decided to
build 100 houses. We have a gorgeous um
[23:54] community. The community is loved by
many if not all of you. We've all
[23:58] invested heavily and I my printer of
course got destroyed. The ink ran out
[24:05] there if you will. You can look at it.
And I respectfully request that what we
[24:12] do is we restrict and I don't know how
you do it.
[24:17] » Please listen to what I said and see
what you
[24:20] » Thank you very much. We have the next
person who would like to speak and again
[24:24] if you would line up a little bit.
[24:28] We have a couple people in line. We can
move it along faster.
[24:33] Is there anybody else that wants to
speak?
[24:36] While while we're waiting for that, if I
could just respond to a couple of
[24:40] things. Um I know when I spoke to
um Mr. Zen, you had mentioned about uh
[24:49] you read where it was 3.5%
response.
[24:52] » 3.26%.
>> Yeah. That that that had nothing to do
[24:56] with the reasoning. You were referring
to the comprehensive plan review, which
[25:00] is a totally separate document and
totally separate issue. So that did not
[25:04] have anything to do with this. Um,
and as far as um, you know, being aware,
[25:13] everybody I know gets the newsletter. I
don't know how many people read it. Um,
[25:18] we always encourage people in the
newsletter to do a couple of things. One
[25:22] is sign up for Savvy Citizen. I don't
know how many of you have done that. If
[25:27] you haven't, I encourage you to strongly
do it. There's cards in the back there
[25:31] that tell you how to easily do it. Savvy
citizen is just messages or
[25:36] announcements that the township pushes
out. It comes through on your cell
[25:39] phone. Uh it might have attachments. Uh
could have a notice like this, a map,
[25:43] whatever. Um so if you haven't done
that, encourage you to do that. Um the
[25:48] other thing is as Mr. Zin mentioned,
this has been discussed for probably
[25:53] close to a year, if not longer.
>> Um but again, we have a website. All of
[25:59] our minutes are published every month on
the website. All the meetings are
[26:03] recorded and are uploaded on YouTube and
they're available to see there. Um, if
[26:09] you haven't done the past, I encourage
you to do it in the future to stay
[26:12] informed.
[26:16] » Okay.
>> Thank you. Anyone else who wishes to
[26:19] speak?
>> And again, if there's someone who after
[26:25] a couple minutes of him speaking, if the
next person would walk up to the
[26:28] microphone, that would help us to keep
things moving.
[26:36] Hello. Uh, my name is Edin. Uh, I live
at 1971 Lo Piccolo Court. That's office
[26:44] Taylor Road. I'm not real close to this
zoning. So, I just want a clarification
[26:50] because I thought I heard uh Mr.
particular say that because the park was
[26:56] expanding,
we were losing
[27:00] residential
um no right,
[27:04] » we would be losing we would be losing
capacity to utilize as many development
[27:10] rights as is it as it is now because
it's suburban residential receiving.
[27:15] » Okay. Right. So because of this
>> because of this the reasonzoning is
[27:22] taking place on the other side of
Shawberry Road.
[27:25] » Correct.
>> Um and I also heard that [clears throat]
[27:28] there's no immediate plans for what
we're going to do with this additional
[27:33] acreage for Park.
>> Not at this point in time. We we do have
[27:38] a grant um to conduct a feasibility
study and a master plan
[27:44] » and that again um it Mr. Zen
unfortunately it's it's it's reality. I
[27:49] don't know why but if you ever do a
municipalwide survey and get 5% back,
[27:57] people are really excited on our in our
world because people just don't respond.
[28:03] But I can tell you, watch your
newsletter in the next six months
[28:06] because we'll be including surveys for
what people are looking for in parks and
[28:11] recreation. So, it is part of the
process.
[28:14] » Yeah. Just so you know, we have a master
plan for Miller Park. Now, we've been
[28:18] through phase two of three phases. We've
put that on hold because we knew we were
[28:23] going to try to acquire additional land.
And then we will do a new master plan
[28:28] for the entire park, not just for what
we have as the additional land. And part
[28:33] of that will be we'll listen to what
people want through surveys. We did that
[28:37] the first time and look at what makes
the most sense. Probably initially we'll
[28:43] put them a walking trail there because
people love the walking trails and then
[28:47] we'll have time to decide what happens
with the rice.
[28:50] » Well, my point is I I think Newer Park
is is beautiful the way it is right now.
[28:54] And if this addition is causing this
resoning, I think we need to re rethink
[29:00] that whole process. to disturb a lot of
people.
[29:03] » Well, one of the nice things with the
addition is that we're going to be able
[29:06] to keep Miller Park. The third phase
would have had maybe tennis courts or
[29:11] pickle ball courts, basketball, and
we've taken another look at that and
[29:15] said we think people like the more um
look that the park has now where things
[29:21] aren't all we don't want to push all
that together.
[29:23] » I agree.
>> But there's a lot of people going pickle
[29:25] ball and some other things. So, this now
gives us room to do that. And you know
[29:30] they're not making any land any more
land. So if we don't acquire that when
[29:34] we have a chance, we may never be able
to do anything more. We have an
[29:38] opportunity now. So we want we want to
drive that while land's available.
[29:43] » That's that's all I have to And if I
could just follow up on that, you know,
[29:46] I understand where you're coming from,
you know, as far as shifting this over
[29:51] here, but something else to keep in
mind, as I said today, you can have that
[29:55] high density where we want the 13 acres
of parkland and you're not going to have
[29:59] that open space anymore. You're going to
really tighten up Miller Park and and
[30:05] you could have homes adjacent to the
park right now.
[30:09] So,
>> thank you. Yeah. Thank you.
[30:12] It's going up.
Good evening. Mike here, 235 Strawberry
[30:18] Road. I only have one question and that
deals with a comment that I thought I
[30:22] heard Mr. Zen make and that was he
referenced 100 potential development
[30:30] sites. Do we know what the number of
sites may be? No, we do not. And and
[30:37] I'll tell you why. There's there's so
many variables that go into developing a
[30:41] parcel. Um for suburban residential,
the first thing you have to do is and
[30:47] it's challenging for a developer because
they have to pull out all the acreage
[30:52] that takes up the roads, storm water
basins and everything. So that's the
[30:57] basis for doing your density
calculation. So you can't have a higher
[31:01] density utilizing the acreage that's in
roads and storm water basins and so
[31:05] forth. So that's the first step. The
other thing in the suburban residential
[31:09] receiving district which is I think a
little unique and and actually it's a
[31:13] little cumbersome to calculate when
you're looking at it. But the way the
[31:18] ordinance is written while Mr. Zinn's
correct it could have some town homes.
[31:23] It could have multif [clears throat]
family and so forth. But the way the
[31:26] ordinance is written
you cannot have all town houses. You
[31:31] cannot have all multif family. The way
the ordinance is written for every
[31:36] multifamily duplex
uh townhouse that you have that
[31:42] development must also match that with a
single family home.
[31:48] So let's say there's 25 multifamily
duplexes, town houses, you also have to
[31:55] have 25 single family homes built in
that community. So it can't be all
[32:00] multif family type of dwellings. All
right. So that's why it's hard for me to
[32:05] say it could be x amount of units
because
[32:08] » somebody might come in and if they ever
go to develop as sewer capacity becomes
[32:11] available, they might have all single
family homes. They're not required to
[32:15] put in
multif family.
[32:18] » So a followup since there been at least
two other meetings in the last year
[32:24] leading to this session on that
property. There must be some general
[32:28] guidelines in terms of the minimum or
maximum number of development sites.
[32:34] Somebody has to have had that
conversation.
[32:38] You're telling me they haven't?
No, we we we can play I can tell you
[32:43] right now and you're welcome to come in.
We can play around with those numbers
[32:47] all we want. We could make those numbers
what we want them to be based on what
[32:52] kind of configuration we make. you know,
whether it's it's multif family duplexes
[32:59] or or all single family because if you
have um
[33:04] you know, if you do the multif family,
the twotory with uh I think the max is
[33:09] eight units,
>> but maximum height is two stories.
[33:14] » Um you know, that's going to shift
around what your available
[33:19] uh density is because you need a minimum
lot size for a single family home. And
[33:24] then there's a different lot size for
multif family. There's a different lot
[33:28] size for duplexes. Um, so I I could I
could come up with probably 15 different
[33:36] scenarios.
>> Well, I understand what you're saying.
[33:39] However, and I
>> I hope my five minutes aren't up yet.
[33:43] Uh, but if they're going to be single
family, you know what that number could
[33:49] possibly be at this point is is where
I'm going. Well, if
[33:53] » and then if there is a uh calculation in
terms of how many single family and
[34:00] duplexes, you should know that number
now.
[34:03] » Well,
am I wrong?
[34:06] » Let me see.
>> I I will say I don't have have the
[34:08] number.
>> I don't have the number off the top of
[34:10] my head, but I will look here. I can
tell you what the square footage is.
[34:13] » Um
>> All right. I
[34:15] » for the minimum lot size remaining. We
looked at at the the tradeoffs if you
[34:20] would between looking at the SSR now
that's there now and if that goes away
[34:25] and there are no more and the other is
reszone. It does it does allow for a few
[34:32] not a lot but a few more homes than
which you would have in the one section.
[34:35] I don't have those numbers here but yes
what you're asking we did look at
[34:38] [snorts] those. It's probably a year ago
you know when we were looking at all
[34:42] that.
>> All right. I I just find it interesting
[34:44] and I've only talked for like two
minutes. everybody else has to answer my
[34:48] questions. I I I just can't fathom you
don't have that minimum or maximum
[34:53] number of development sites.
>> We we did look at at rough numbers
[34:58] » and all I'm looking for. I just don't
have them with me.
[35:03] » And it's hard to say because I'm going
to use Hamilton's Overlook as an example
[35:08] » and the storm water
>> is the storm water.
[35:10] » Yeah. Hamilton's Overlook could have had
more homes and smaller lot sizes if they
[35:16] didn't have the storm water basins
>> because when you build a home, you're
[35:20] required to manage your storm water
>> and you can put seepage pits in where it
[35:26] catches all the water from your
downspouts.
[35:28] » All right.
>> So, that's what I'm saying to I I don't
[35:32] know what a developer is going to do if
he's going to put in a storm water basic
[35:36] system. Am I asking a question?
>> No, we No, we asked those questions and
[35:40] we did [snorts] have the rough numbers.
I just
[35:43] » So, so somebody can get back to us.
>> If I went home and got a file, I could
[35:47] probably
>> Okay. So, somebody can get back to us
[35:49] and let us know what that is. Minimum
>> if you'll give me your contact
[35:53] information, email if you have it.
>> Okay.
[35:56] » Yeah, I'll get you.
>> Yeah. What I want to show you here is um
[36:01] for a single family home uh with public
water and public sewer. Is this uh make
[36:07] sure I'm on the right here. Suburban
residential.
[36:09] » I understand if you could answer that
later. That's fine.
[36:14] » Give me Give me your email before you
leave tonight. Thank you.
[36:16] » Sure. And I'll get with Todd together.
We'll do that.
[36:21] » Yes, ma'am.
>> Hello. Good evening. My name is Toana
[36:25] Melton. Um 346 Eliza um and Hamilton's
Overlook. Um, and so I just, this is our
[36:34] first meeting here. So, a couple things.
Is there, you talked about a strategic
[36:39] plan that you've talked about for over a
year now. What are the And I heard you
[36:44] say pickle ball. I heard you say
potentially houses or whatever have you.
[36:48] And I know that there's no developer
that has even mentioned anything to you
[36:53] guys, but what is the plan? like when
you talked a year ago, what was the
[36:57] thought or do is that something that was
discussed during that time? That's
[37:03] question number one. Question number two
is I know we're all here and I know it's
[37:07] a lot of families here from Hamilton's
overlook. Do we really even have a vote
[37:13] or is it will it be this body that will
make the decision and you know kind of
[37:18] if you get a developer and if it happens
to be group homes that's what it's going
[37:22] to be. Do we as homeowners have any say
so in it?
[37:27] » I can answer that that part and we're
here to listen.
[37:30] » Um, usually we just listen. We don't
comment too much, but it is this body
[37:35] that makes that decision. The five of us
that are here, you have elected us to do
[37:40] that. Um, and did we look a year ago
when we looked at this? Um, if if I
[37:46] understand that question right,
essentially what what we were looking at
[37:50] back then is we had a desire to purchase
the park land. Um, we did we actually
[37:56] did have developers
a couple of years ago that approached
[38:02] that were kind of looking at the park
that we want the park we want to
[38:06] acquire. And they were looking at that
and they submitted some preliminary
[38:11] plans and we looked at and said no way
you cannot put even in the SSR they
[38:17] could not put the kind of density in
that they wanted and they didn't come in
[38:21] for any formal approval. They just were
looking at maybe buying the land. So
[38:25] they wanted to say can we build all
this? We said no. They came back a
[38:29] second time and said what about this? We
said no. Um and they went away. So, we
[38:34] know of nobody that is interested in any
of the land at this time. Okay. Um, we
[38:40] just it it kind of broached the
opportunity for us to to try to acquire
[38:44] because that's been on our horizon for
some time.
[38:50] » Now, as far as I guess you say is about
whether or not it gets reszoned,
[38:54] um, yeah, that is up to this body. But
as far as like if a plan comes in for
[38:58] subdivision,
>> Yes. um or land development for a
[39:01] housing development.
This board makes the final decision, but
[39:06] they have to follow what our ordinance
states. So, we have a zoning ordinance
[39:09] and we have a subdivision land
development ordinance. It's already been
[39:12] adopted. So, as long as they check off
all those boxes, you know, this board
[39:16] really doesn't have any choice other
than to approve it.
[39:20] » And just to give you an idea, that
process probably takes a couple of
[39:24] years. If a builder came in today and
wanted to build there, he's not going to
[39:29] put a shovel in the ground for a couple
years because he goes through to the
[39:33] staff review. He goes through the
planning commission. He comes here and
[39:37] there are a lot of other issues that
need to be covered. So, it doesn't
[39:40] happen quick. But today, nobody could do
that unless they were putting in well
[39:45] and septic and they can do that today.
You could have a bunch of houses in back
[39:49] of you today if they were willing to put
well and septic in.
[39:53] » Okay. I appreciate you answering the
question um and and kind of explaining
[39:58] it because again this was our first
meeting here and I think I'm going to
[40:02] speak for us as for myself my husband
and I as a homeowner just to take into
[40:07] consideration just depending on you know
the developers coming in and I I get the
[40:12] aspect where you're coming from but just
as a homeowner just understanding that
[40:17] the purchases that we made and having
the here you know potentially a group
[40:22] home or potentially town homes and
things like that, it could really affect
[40:26] the value. So that that was the
>> one of the things you want to bear in
[40:30] mind is that you think there were people
who felt the same way when Hamilton's
[40:35] overlook went in and I would guarantee
you there were. So So now now you're
[40:40] changing places now someone who maybe
didn't want Hamilton Overlook there, now
[40:45] you're there, but you're looking at
this. Um I live the same place where we
[40:49] were part of a a farm at one time and
it's across the road. there could be
[40:53] development but you know people have to
realize remember we were we were that
[40:58] place at one time so just to give some
empathy to the whole process um there
[41:03] were people that didn't want to see
Hamilton over there too but we're glad
[41:08] you're there
>> yes sir Jeremy Anderson 339 Eliza um I
[41:13] just wanted to clarify something that I
think Mr. Ziggler said about sewage. If
[41:19] this goes through, there is no sewage
capacity. So, a builder at this point in
[41:25] time, the only way that we know that
they could probably develop it is
[41:31] if they're willing to expand the
wastewater treatment plant, which
[41:34] everybody's sew each goes to New Freedom
Burough's treatment plant. So, they'd
[41:39] have to work with New Freedom Burrow,
not us. Um, and number one, they'd have
[41:44] to be open to that. And number two, the
developers would have to pay for it.
[41:48] They're not going to pass that cost on
to the current users.
[41:51] » So in that sense, going to this zoning
could almost limit a developer from
[41:56] » at this point in time, I think it
severely
[41:59] » severely limits it,
>> right?
[42:01] » Um but again,
>> none of us can predict whether a
[42:04] developer comes in and thinks, you know,
it's worthy or not. Um the last I knew
[42:10] they were probably looking at four or
five million dollars to to expand the
[42:13] plant
years.
[42:15] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. But
[42:17] » that's all I Thank you.
>> Sure.
[42:19] » Thank you.
>> Yes, sir.
[42:21] » Gentlemen, how y'all doing? How y'all
doing?
[42:24] » Good. Good. Good.
>> I'm Rodney Hicks. Uh 313 Eliza Road.
[42:29] That's my wife Bridget there. Um,
you mentioned something about how people
[42:35] didn't want Hamilton's overlook there
prior to that is completely different
[42:39] from having multif family properties and
group homes. I sell a lot of multif
[42:45] family properties down in Baltimore as a
realtor and I know what type of
[42:49] clientele that brings. The properties
that we've worked hard for and purchased
[42:53] and I moved from Baltimore up here to
get away from that element.
[42:58] So, we cannot liken a group home or a
multifamily home to the homes that we've
[43:05] purchased over Hamilton's Overlook. It's
a completely different That's a good
[43:09] point.
>> Right.
[43:10] » And so, when you bring those renters
there, the next thing that's going to
[43:14] come is public transportation because
they need somewhere to go. They need pl
[43:18] they going to have to get public
transportation to get to where they need
[43:22] to go to. All of them are not going to
have vehicles,
[43:25] right? which is going to bring a
different type of element. I worked in
[43:29] law enforcement for 22 years down in
Baltimore and as a realtor as well. I
[43:35] was dual career and I see and I know
what type of clientele is going to come
[43:41] and we've invested a lot of money into
these properties
[43:46] and we have a lot of people here from
Hamilton's Overlook
[43:50] and I just think that is going to bring
a different type of element and if I'm
[43:55] being honest and again forgive me this
is my first time in one of these
[43:59] meetings ever because in Baltimore City
we didn't have these right so this is
[44:04] new for And I was I was going to sit
there and not say anything, but I cannot
[44:08] do that.
That that's going to bring a It's going
[44:14] to kill the property value
>> drastically. If there's anything I don't
[44:20] mean to cut you off, I'm sorry. If
there's anything that we can do
[44:25] » to change that,
>> please, I'm sure I speak for everyone,
[44:30] let us know.
One thing to bear in mind is that just
[44:34] because it's zoned for that doesn't mean
anybody would build that. A builder is
[44:38] going to build what he can sell, you
know, and he may not be able to sell
[44:42] that type of product here. Um, and today
again, unless he finds a way to get a
[44:47] lot of sewage, he can't do that anyway.
>> But the fact that there's a chance
[44:52] somebody is going to try it,
>> there's a chance. That same thing could
[44:56] happen right now on the land we're
trying to buy. That's not quite in your
[45:00] backyard, but it's close.
>> It's close enough.
[45:03] » So, that can be done there today if they
have a sewer. They don't have that today
[45:07] either.
>> You know, I feel good being a being able
[45:10] to leave my garage door open
>> sometimes all night and go to sleep and
[45:14] know that my stuff is still safe in my
my car. I don't have to lock my truck
[45:19] and my kids are out there playing. I
don't have to worry about I moved from
[45:23] an area
from there to here so I could have that.
[45:28] and I'm sure others have done the same.
>> I appreciate that.
[45:33] » So, that's
we're going to give
[45:38] everybody a chance to speak before we
have anybody come up a second time.
[45:45] » Sure. Come on up.
>> Good evening. U My name's uh my legal
[45:50] name David Dixon. I'm 347 Eliza Road. A
lot of people in the neighborhood know
[45:55] my my I get my middle name Chris. Um,
appreciate uh the opportunity to speak
[46:00] tonight.
>> Um, I um I know I'm going to echo a lot
[46:03] of what was said before, but not
directly. Um, we uh have been in the
[46:08] area for nearly 20 years, but we were on
the Maryland side and uh uh part of the
[46:14] appeal to coming and building in
Hamilton's overlook was uh what exactly
[46:19] you know what Rodney described. He did a
a great job describing I think how a lot
[46:24] of us feel. We certainly understand you
know [clears throat] I'm in construction
[46:28] myself. I realize the process. You know,
you can't, you know, I you to to be able
[46:33] to have Hamilton's overlook and say,
"Oh, nobody else can come." I don't
[46:36] think that's really the sentiment, but
um just the the makeup of this township,
[46:42] uh you know, part of the allure for just
being at rural. We um that's what
[46:47] brought a lot of us here. And I think I
don't think anybody's looking to
[46:50] exclude, but I think we just uh you
know, we're trusting, you know, that I
[46:54] guess, you know, our elected officials
just, you know, we appreciate the
[46:58] opportunity to be heard that, you know,
there's certainly a concern that, you
[47:02] know, we we that don't want to turn it
into, you know, a suburban area. And I
[47:07] think, um, you that's just, you know,
what we're trying to convey tonight. Um,
[47:12] and just I think Rodney nailed it when
he said just even the potential. So, um
[47:17] I think that's that's one of the biggest
things. And uh second, we're big outdoor
[47:21] users and the discussion about we go to
Miller Park and um what we discovered is
[47:27] [snorts] Miller Park is not a dog
friendly area, you know, the signs
[47:32] » clearly indicate that. So, if they're if
if we're having expansion discussions
[47:37] for Miller Park, um I like the pickle
ball idea other than try signing up for
[47:43] pickle ball anywhere. Uh, and the
classes are all full, so you're going to
[47:47] have good luck finding someone to teach
you. But I guess my point about that is
[47:51] there needs to be more opportunities for
u dog owners, things like that. If we're
[47:57] going to expand this park sometime in
the future, I would hope there's
[48:00] consideration. I know there's
irresponsible dog owners. We see them,
[48:05] but um, yeah, there still needs to be an
opportunity to be able for everybody to
[48:09] be able to enjoy these things.
>> Well, you'll have the opportunity with a
[48:12] survey to express
>> Yeah. Thank Thank you. But um I
[48:15] appreciate the opportunity to be here
tonight and appreciate the people that
[48:18] have come out u to be able to express
their concerns too. Thank you.
[48:22] » Thank you.
>> Yes, sir.
[48:26] » Yeah. Good evening. Uh Rob Grandandy um
345 Eliza. So I back up directly to the
[48:32] uh the field property. So definitely
concerned about might what might come
[48:35] in. So, if it does come to be that it is
a mix, so town houses and uh single
[48:42] family homes, um my brother who's in the
business in the Baltimore area has
[48:46] stated that it's often customary to for
example line the adjacent properties
[48:52] with like property. So, in other words,
um if there was mixed properties that
[48:56] the single family homes might um be
adjacent to the current Eliza homes and
[49:01] then um town town houses like in inside
of the other property. Is that is that a
[49:07] thing or is you know is that a maybe a
Baltimore thing or you know
[49:11] » every developer is a little different
you know um but typically I mean they
[49:16] try to do a transition instead of a real
hard you know it's kind of like that
[49:20] with zoning you know you try to go from
commercial to the heavier you know um
[49:26] you know the higher density residential
before you get into the lower density
[49:29] residential then you get out into the
egg. Again, that's up to each individual
[49:34] developer. We can't make any guarantees
of that, but
[49:38] » Okay.
>> Thank you.
[49:42] » Thank you.
We're only allowing one time.
[49:47] » You got five minutes and you had your
five minutes. I want to know if anybody
[49:51] else is there. Anybody else here wants
to talk?
[49:55] » Also, to our half hour limit.
>> Could I could I start and yield my time
[50:00] to him?
>> No. No.
[50:02] » Why not?
>> We're not starting.
[50:04] » They do it in the government.
>> We're not doing that.
[50:08] » I ask our solicitor. I feel that we
should not let somebody talk multiple
[50:14] times.
>> Those are your rules.
[50:15] » I'm sorry.
>> Those are your rules, sir.
[50:17] » Yes. Is there anybody else who wishes to
talk?
[50:21] » That's the problem here.
>> Last chance.
[50:25] Okay. We'll close the We'll close the
public hearing. We appreciate your
[50:29] comments. we've listened. Um, you know,
there are a lot of things that that need
[50:34] to be considered. So, I hope you can put
yourselves in our spot and decisions
[50:39] that we need to make that we think serve
the entire township best. And and and
[50:45] comment that you made, if you looked at
the map that Todd did, the large part of
[50:51] the township is zoned agriculture and we
are trying very hard to keep it that
[50:56] way. But we do need to get rid of some
development rights and able to help us
[51:00] do that. So that's why we're looking to
somewhere where we can use more of the
[51:04] development rights. But um look at all
that green and that is something that
[51:09] this board is committed to keeping green
so the town stays very r
[51:15] you have any else you want to offer?
>> I do not.
[51:19] » All right. So we are finished with the
public comment on the hearing. Thank you
[51:24] all for coming out. You're certainly
welcome to stay as we move through a
[51:28] couple more hours of our meeting.
For those who wish to leave, we'll just
[51:33] pause a couple seconds so that you can
do that.
[51:48] I don't know why
they
[51:57] should not
[52:02] [clears throat]
[52:13] situation [clears throat] down the cost.
Thank you.
[52:18] » We need to ask you if you will take that
out in the lobby if you want to talk so
[52:22] that we can continue here.
>> You're just the very beginning of what
[52:26] we need to do tonight.
[52:53] Mr. Chairman, I'm I'm going to uh I'm
going to close the back doors so that we
[52:57] can
>> Okay.
[52:58] » Thank you.
[53:12] We stay out here.
[53:31] » Thanks. Appreciate it.
All right. Um, how's the board feel? Are
[53:36] we in a position where we're ready to
vote?
[53:42] on the ordinance.
[53:46] » So moved.
>> Okay. Second.
[53:48] » All right. So we will then um we're
looking at this ordinance now 2025-04
[53:54] that makes the map amendment for zoning.
Um is there a motion someone would like
[53:59] to put before the board?
[54:03] » I'll make that motion.
>> Want to specify your motion? Motion
[54:08] number
>> 25 202504
[54:12] » 24504.
[54:16] » Your motion is to
>> adopt the order.
[54:19] » Okay. Thank you. Just want to make sure
we're clear.
[54:22] » Your second.
>> We have a motion and a second that we
[54:25] [snorts] would adopt ordinance 2025-04.
Questions from the board.
[54:32] » I don't have questions, but it have a
comment.
[54:34] » Go ahead.
Um I'm Did you get a second for that,
[54:37] Bob?
>> Yes.
[54:39] » Wonderful.
>> Um
[54:41] the um
areas already able to be developed.
[54:47] Uh the goal has always been to remove
development rights from the farming
[54:52] areas and to put them in areas where
have been identified as uh developmental
[55:01] around the burrows, which is where this
ties into.
[55:05] um they can be developed today, maybe
not at the current density, um but
[55:11] they're still able to be developed.
>> Um and there's still no proposed
[55:15] development in the near future due to
sewer restrictions.
[55:21] Um that was all I had as far as a
comment.
[55:24] » I'd like to make one other additional
comment. Uh, not only have we had
[55:30] millers before us about reszoning,
>> true,
[55:33] » we've previously had another property
owner in this area claim a reszoning
[55:39] » several years in in the same area
>> in the same area
[55:41] » at the time was looking for spot zoning
as I recall, which is why it was denied.
[55:45] But yes,
>> that's another reason why we took into
[55:48] consideration
>> this move that we're making because we
[55:51] did have a request for a spot res in
this district.
[55:55] » It's a good point. Then we acquire
additional parkland.
[55:59] » And just for everybody's knowledge, this
has been talked about for probably more
[56:03] than a year. It's been several public
hearings, not public hearings, but
[56:08] public meetings where people could have
comment. It's been through our planning
[56:12] commission. Um, it's been through the
staff. All this is up to date pretty
[56:18] much on our website about what's going
on in the newsletter that comes out. So,
[56:23] as Mr. Ziggler said, please take
advantage of those. And if you subscribe
[56:28] to Savvy Citizen, uh you get text and
information automatically. So, um I
[56:34] would encourage you to use those. If you
have any trouble getting on the website
[56:38] or Savvy says, just call into the office
here and somebody will help you through
[56:42] that. And if you did not get a
newsletter, there are copies of the last
[56:46] one back uh on the table back of you.
All right. Any other comments? Just just
[56:52] again that we acquire the parkland
basically for free. Uh it's being
[56:58] purchased through grants. So there's no
additional tax to the residents,
[57:05] » just benefits.
>> And and to speak to grants, they are
[57:08] highly competitive. They are difficult
to obtain. Um
[57:13] » well done.
>> I give Mr. Ziggler a lot of credit
[57:16] because he was the one who did the
application for the grants and followed
[57:19] them through. Um
There's a there are a lot of people that
[57:23] money goes so far. When it runs out,
then the grants stop. So, we have the
[57:28] grants now. We want to make sure we use
them. If we don't, we lose them and they
[57:31] go to somebody else and they might not
be around next year when we want to or
[57:36] another year when we want to look for
them. So, we've considered all that as
[57:40] as we do this vote as well. It's been a
lot of work going into getting where we
[57:45] are to get that park expansion.
All right, I'll call for the vote. And
[57:50] again, clarify the vote is to adopt
2025-4.
[57:54] » I
>> I
[57:55] » I
>> I
[57:56] » I
>> I votes the permanent the uh adopted
[58:01] I I think you'll find as time goes on
things will work out. So I hope you'll
[58:04] give it a give it a chance, but we do
appreciate your comments and understand
[58:09] and um
and we want the township to be very
[58:14] rural. That's what this board is
committed to. So we're going to do what
[58:17] we can to keep it that way.
>> Thank you.
[58:21] All right. The next item is approval of
the minutes from our October 1st
[58:25] meeting.
>> Like to make a motion to approve.
[58:27] » Second. Motion a second to approve.
Questions on the minutes?
[58:31] » Call for the vote.
>> I
[58:33] » I
>> I
[58:34] » I votes the affirmative. The minutes are
approved. Um not listed here, but I
[58:39] think we can include that. We had
another set of minutes for the uh budget
[58:43] hearing that we had.
>> You can or if you since it's not on the
[58:47] agenda, why don't we just hold it till
December? Fair enough. Yeah,
[58:50] » we'll hold it to December.
>> We don't want to get in trouble.
[58:52] » No.
Another public meeting that was held and
[58:56] and we had no one attended was our was
our budget meeting. It's a workshop we
[59:01] hold here. It's open to the public and
run runs through the budget. So, and
[59:05] you're welcome to inspect copies of
that. In fact, I think a little bit
[59:10] later in the agenda. Don't we don't we
approve that?
[59:13] » We'll author the board will authorize it
to be advertised for public inspection.
[59:17] So you you can see what comes in and
what goes out. I can u have the
[59:23] treasures report.
>> I'll make a motion to approve October
[59:27] 2025.
>> I have a motion in a second to approve
[59:32] the treasures report. Just a comment. We
had just under we had over $9,000 in
[59:37] interest, about $1,000 in fine, and even
still this late in the year, a few uh
[59:42] reservations for picnic tables at the
various parks. Um questions,
[59:51] call for the vote.
>> I
[59:53] » I
>> I
[59:54] » I affirmative. We've approved the
treasures report.
[59:58] Um we do have a session for now opening
public comments. I would say we we're
[1:00:03] we're done with the public hearing, but
if you want to address anything else, uh
[1:00:07] you're welcome to step up. There's
another opportunity at the end of the
[1:00:10] meeting as well. So, anybody wishes to
address at this time?
[1:00:16] Okay. Uh moving forward, we have a
couple of ordinances and resolutions.
[1:00:21] The first is the adoption of the
International Property Maintenance Code.
[1:00:27] » Make a motion to approve. Ordinance
2025-05.
[1:00:32] » Second.
>> All right. We have a motion and a second
[1:00:35] that we would adopt ordinance 2025-05,
which essentially adopts the
[1:00:40] International Property Maintenance Code.
For those out there that assist us when
[1:00:45] we have properties are not kept up,
dilapidated,
[1:00:49] safety issues that give us a little bit
more power to go in and have those taken
[1:00:54] care of.
>> Any questions from the board? Call for
[1:00:58] vote. I
>> I I
[1:01:00] » I
>> I affirmative. We have adopted that.
[1:01:04] » Mr. Chairman.
>> Yes.
[1:01:06] » I'm always loathed to interrupt your
process, but as you heard Mr. Bros say,
[1:01:10] your solicitors watching right now, but
I I don't want to watch any more than I
[1:01:16] have to. Uh quite often you don't have
me at your meetings at all. So, it's
[1:01:20] great to have a chance to come here and
see you. I think it's very economical
[1:01:24] for you to use me when you need me. I
don't think you need me any further this
[1:01:27] evening. So I'm going to go home and
watch from online.
[1:01:32] » We we will be happy to excuse you.
>> Always good to see you fellas. So thank
[1:01:35] you.
>> Take care.
[1:01:37] » Take care. You too.
So resolution 2025-08.
[1:01:43] Actually we Todd talked about the comp
regional comprehensive plan. That's been
[1:01:49] a two-year process. We received two
grants to help fund having the uh person
[1:01:56] work with us to to put that plan
together. Again, competitive grants.
[1:02:01] Again, Todd was the person that applied
for them. This brought in also though
[1:02:05] the municipalities that we surround. Um
it has been before our planning
[1:02:11] commission. It's we've had public a
number of public hearings on the comp
[1:02:15] plan, some here, some in other places.
Um it basically says here's how we want
[1:02:21] to look at the next 10 years going going
forward. And uh you saw pieces of that
[1:02:27] from Todd's presentation. So we would be
voting tonight to adopt um that plan.
[1:02:34] That plan is um how many pages you think
that is Todd?
[1:02:39] » Many
>> over 200. Well over 200. It is available
[1:02:43] on the township website.org
on the homepage. If you look uh the full
[1:02:49] text is there as well as the exhibits
for future land use.
[1:02:52] » A lot of very interesting background
information. Um, if you can stay with
[1:02:56] the whole thing, it it's actually not
bad to go through. I did every page a
[1:03:01] couple times and and offered some edits
and comments to it, but there was a
[1:03:06] committee who's been working. I think
it's been two years, Todd. So,
[1:03:09] » yeah, we had an engineering firm as a
consultant.
[1:03:12] » Yes.
>> So, um, we're ready to to vote if there
[1:03:16] is a motion to adopt.
>> I'll make a motion to adopt resolution.
[1:03:21] » Second. We have a motion and a second
that will adopt a comprehensive plan
[1:03:26] which is resolution. This is not an
ordinance or resolution 2025-08.
[1:03:31] » Uh we uh
are waiting on burrows for this as well.
[1:03:37] I believe
>> we adopt it independently though.
[1:03:41] » Right.
>> Yeah, we adopt independently.
[1:03:44] Um Shrewsbury Burough I believe has
already adopted. I know Glenrock Burrow
[1:03:48] has and I know Railroad Burough has. New
Freedom Bureau, I believe, is going to
[1:03:52] revisit it again at their December
meeting.
[1:03:55] » Sounds good.
>> Meeting I was at, they voted against it.
[1:03:59] » Yeah, but my understanding is they're
going to revisit, but I'm I don't work
[1:04:02] there, but that's what I've been told.
So, I'm not sure.
[1:04:06] » That was all I had.
>> You have you have a motion and a second.
[1:04:10] » All right. Any questions before we vote?
Call for vote.
[1:04:13] » I
>> I
[1:04:14] » I
>> I
[1:04:15] » I votes affirmative. We have adopted a
comprehensive plan and my
[1:04:19] congratulations to the committee that
spent a lot of days and a lot of time to
[1:04:25] get through all this and put it
together. It's I would encourage you get
[1:04:28] a chance to look at it. It's a good
document that tells you what should be
[1:04:32] happening in the township as time goes
on.
[1:04:36] All right.
Find my agenda again. Uh next on the
[1:04:42] agenda, some subdivision and land
development issues. The first And I'll
[1:04:46] let Todd kind of lead into each of
these, but the first is at 2894 Holly
[1:04:51] Road. So modification request and a
final division plan since we have a lot
[1:04:57] of new people with modification request
is a builder may come in and say, I know
[1:05:02] your ordinance requires this, but I
believe I have a good case for asking
[1:05:07] you to give me some wave. It might be
sidewalks or curves. Um, it makes sense,
[1:05:12] we do that. If it doesn't make sense, we
must pull them to the coordinates. These
[1:05:17] have already been reviewed by our
professional staff. They're people we
[1:05:22] contract and engineer, planning officer,
and so forth. They've been approved and
[1:05:28] they've been looked at by our planning
commission. And one of the things we ask
[1:05:32] Todd as we go through this, are these
recommended by uh for approval by staff
[1:05:38] and by planning commission?
>> Okay. Okay, the first plan uh we have is
[1:05:43] on the corner of Country Club Road and
Holly Road. Um, of course, the dark blue
[1:05:49] lines is what's proposed and all it is
is an adjustment of a lot line because
[1:05:56] currently this property, their lot line
comes over to this point. So, what
[1:06:01] they're doing is selling some property
to this homeowner. So, they have a
[1:06:05] little larger lot.
>> Um, so there's no new development
[1:06:08] proposed or anything.
Um the uh first thing you see there,
[1:06:13] there's two modification requests. One
is for roadway improvements, widening,
[1:06:17] and so forth, and the other one is for
curbs. Uh staff as well as the township
[1:06:23] planning commission recommend to the
board that you grant those modification
[1:06:26] requests. Again, because they're
existing properties, existing dwellings,
[1:06:30] and there's no development proposed.
>> Is there anything outstanding on the
[1:06:34] August 20th CS Davidson letter? Yeah,
we'll need to do that as a separate
[1:06:37] motion. But if you approve the plan, um
I would make that conditioned upon all
[1:06:42] the comments in the CSDavidson review
letter dated August 20th, 20125.
[1:06:47] » I'm sorry.
>> be addressed prior to recording.
[1:06:49] » I I jumped ahead.
>> That's all right.
[1:06:51] » Um make a motion to approve the
modification request for
[1:06:56] 2894 Holly Road and 13432 Holly Road.
>> Second.
[1:07:02] » I have a motion in a second to approve
the modifications. questions before we
[1:07:05] vote. Call for vote.
>> I
[1:07:08] » I
>> I
[1:07:09] » I
>> I votes to the affirmative. The
[1:07:11] modifications are approved. Next, we're
looking at the final subdivision
[1:07:15] approval.
>> Make a motion to approve conditional
[1:07:19] upon the outstanding items on the August
20th, 2025 CS Davidson letter have been
[1:07:25] met.
>> Second motion and a second to approve
[1:07:28] the final subdivision plan.
>> Questions? Call for the vote. I
[1:07:34] » I
>> I
[1:07:36] » I
>> Can I just clarify? Is everything
[1:07:39] addressed? I think everything's been
>> I believe it has. I'll have to check
[1:07:42] with with Megan tomorrow.
>> Okay.
[1:07:47] So,
>> sorry you didn't get to talk.
[1:07:48] » That's perfect. [laughter]
[1:07:51] Sometimes that happens.
>> All right. We have a
[1:07:56] second one which is modification request
on the final land development plan. One,
[1:08:01] two, two, court.
>> Yeah, I'll I'll pull your plan up here.
[1:08:06] So,
>> after all the work she put in on that
[1:08:09] board,
>> I have a feeling I have a feeling she
[1:08:12] won't I have a feeling she won't be
disappointed.
[1:08:16] » Um, again, I I'll I'll just do the quick
overview like we do, but you feel free
[1:08:23] to interject and add anything if you
wish. Um,
[1:08:27] this one here is, uh, it's an existing
farm. Uh, Mr. and Mrs. Petri own it.
[1:08:33] It's at the end of Deal Court. Uh, this
is Interstate 83.
[1:08:40] Um, what they're proposing is a um,
poultry barn.
[1:08:46] » Chicken house.
>> Chicken house. Poultry.
[1:08:48] » Sorry, I was translated.
>> A a chicken house. Um
[1:08:54] anyway, it has been through staff
several times and and we worked out all
[1:08:58] the details and the kinks and so forth.
Um and it did end up going to the
[1:09:03] township planning commission meeting.
The modification request that you have
[1:09:08] before you um includes uh waving the
requirement for a preliminary plan and
[1:09:14] going directly to the final uh the
embankment width. Um and as well as a
[1:09:20] paved drive.
Uh again, this is at the end of Deal
[1:09:25] Court, which is a dead end road. Um
everything passes past the Petri's
[1:09:30] Farmhouse.
Um and then this is Interstate 83.
[1:09:35] » [clears throat]
>> there's no residential developments in
[1:09:37] in close proximity to the property. So,
we did not think given that it's
[1:09:40] agricultural that it necessitated a
paved driveway. Uh so, for those
[1:09:45] reasons, again, township planning
commission and township staff recommends
[1:09:50] to the board of supervisors that you
approve the modification request.
[1:09:56] » Did you get that second one, too? Was
there only two there?
[1:09:58] » Uh, it's three.
>> Three. the preliminary plan, the
[1:10:02] embankment width, and the pave drive.
[1:10:07] » Make a motion to approve the U
modification request for
[1:10:12] 12283 deals.
>> Second.
[1:10:17] » Is that going to be continued on
review by
[1:10:21] » the the final?
>> That's the final.
[1:10:25] » All right.
>> How many chickens does this
[1:10:31] I'll let you answer that.
>> We're building it for the capacity of
[1:10:36] 80,000 white laying heads.
>> 80,000.
[1:10:40] » It's a lot of chickens.
>> Yep.
[1:10:44] » Very nice.
>> I I normally wear a Royal Farms hoodie,
[1:10:49] [laughter] so respect.
>> How do you manage odor control?
[1:10:56] » Chickens will smell like chickens. It's
true.
[1:11:00] » It smells better than pigs.
>> That's stupid. [laughter]
[1:11:08] » Chickens.
There's only a certain amount that we
[1:11:11] can do.
>> For the record, your name.
[1:11:14] » My name's D Petri. That's my wife,
Ellen.
[1:11:17] » Okay.
>> And this farm
[1:11:18] » I knew that I just
>> This farm in question is directly across
[1:11:21] Interstate 83 from here, which is
perhaps Mr. Rogers is concerned about
[1:11:25] theater.
I've planned I am currently living
[1:11:30] downwind for the planned building
location
[1:11:33] where we moved from. We had a chicken
house
[1:11:37] probably 100 ft away from our
residential house. Some days it smells,
[1:11:42] but we survive. We've got to eat
children. They're all healthy. As far as
[1:11:47] how we control that odor,
there's a number of things and it all
[1:11:52] ties into managing a chicken house for
economic profit. We maintain the
[1:11:56] ventilation. We try to keep the manure
as dry as possible. This plan, if done,
[1:12:02] the chicken house will have a manure
storage area at the end of the chicken
[1:12:06] house directly in line with the exhaust
fans. Keeping the manure dry is
[1:12:12] essential for various reasons. Odor,
keeping the ammonia down, keeping your
[1:12:17] flies down.
It all benefits me. Healthy chickens,
[1:12:22] happy chickens, more money occasionally.
At 80,000 birds, that sounds like a lot.
[1:12:31] We have two other laying houses that we
manage. Both of them have capacity for
[1:12:37] 86,000, which puts us up over the cave
level.
[1:12:41] » Are they on different properties?
>> They're on different properties. They're
[1:12:45] not here locally.
It sounds like a lot of chickens and
[1:12:49] manage, but after a while you get used
to it. I look at you guys, your job, I
[1:12:53] think I couldn't keep track of all the
legal stuff. You sit here, it becomes
[1:12:57] second nature to you.
We're a familyun operation. We have no
[1:13:01] employees. It's just me and my children.
And that's the way we'd like to keep it.
[1:13:09] Just interest. That's why I ask. That's
perfectly fine. I realize people think
[1:13:14] chicken houses and immediately it goes
odors, flies, dust,
[1:13:20] and I agree all those things are present
in a chicken house. It's just part of
[1:13:24] the nature. But we do our best to try
and limit it. And I will agree it still
[1:13:30] smells better than pigs any
disagree.
[1:13:35] [laughter]
>> Uh do do we have a second for my motion?
[1:13:38] » I'll second.
>> Thanks, B.
[1:13:40] » Any other questions?
satisfied. Yeah.
[1:13:45] » Call for the vote.
>> I
[1:13:46] » I
>> I
[1:13:48] » I motion to affirmative. We have
approved the three modifications that
[1:13:51] were requested. Now we will move on to
approval of the final subdivision plan.
[1:13:57] » Make a motion to approve the final
subdivision for 12283 deal court
[1:14:02] contingent upon all outstanding items on
the May 30th, 2025 CSD Davidson letter
[1:14:07] have been satisfied.
>> Thanks, Bob. A motion in a second.
[1:14:13] Questions before we vote. Call for the
vote.
[1:14:15] » I
>> I
[1:14:18] votes for
>> I'm really trying to hurry. [laughter]
[1:14:22] » Now we have five to
approve the final subdivision as well.
[1:14:27] » Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[1:14:29] » Um I guess this is our first process
with your township. Would we be getting
[1:14:34] a message from Megan about when to get
the plan? Yeah, what we'll do is we're
[1:14:38] required within 15 days to send out a uh
conditional approval letter and then u
[1:14:44] Mr. Petri or yourself representing them
will need to respond accepting the
[1:14:48] conditions and the conditions will be
that everything's addressed on this CSD
[1:14:52] Davidson letter and we'll outline what
those items are.
[1:14:55] » So just watch for that.
>> All right, sounds good. Thank you.
[1:14:58] » Yep.
>> Thank you.
[1:15:03] I know since there are some first time
people, we're glad to see that. If you
[1:15:08] have questions of what we're doing and
how we're doing it, don't be afraid to
[1:15:12] ask us and try to explain a little bit,
but also keep moving, too. Please feel
[1:15:17] free.
>> So, we move from there to some
[1:15:21] subdivision. And again, this is where
that word subdivision can be confusing
[1:15:26] because it can apply to subdividing land
or it can apply to approving um
[1:15:33] buildings or housing or something. So,
we're going to move now to um
[1:15:39] um land development when there's a
modification request. Oh, wait a minute.
[1:15:43] We just did that.
>> No, we're on the uh
[1:15:46] » Yer.
>> So, we are now looking at uh actually
[1:15:50] what came up earlier. We're looking at
the Miller farm and
[1:15:56] yeah, so um the the three modifications
that are requested are the feasibility
[1:16:01] study for water facilities, feasibility
study for sanitary sewer facilities, and
[1:16:06] the installation of curb and sidewalks.
And again, the reason for all three of
[1:16:09] these modification requests is due to
the fact it's simply a subdivision of
[1:16:14] land. There is no development proposed
and and none can happen with this.
[1:16:19] So even though it's the township buying
this land, we have to hold ourselves to
[1:16:23] the same ordinance requirements. We make
no exceptions there.
[1:16:28] » Other questions to um Todd at this time
or is there a motion?
[1:16:33] » I'll make a motion for the modification
request for 660 Stberry Road.
[1:16:39] » Second. So, we have a motion and a
second for the three modification
[1:16:44] requests and this would be the Miller
Park expansion. So, just help everybody
[1:16:50] understand it. Questions before we vote?
I'll call for the vote. I
[1:16:55] » I
>> I
[1:16:57] » I
have approved those three.
[1:17:02] » And on the plan, if the board uh makes
conditional approval instead of the CSD
[1:17:08] Davidson review letter, this one in
particular is the York County Planning
[1:17:11] Commission review letter dated October
3rd of 2025.
[1:17:16] » But we don't need to do that yet because
we're
[1:17:20] only doing the modifications. Correct.
Oh, did you not vote on those yet?
[1:17:25] » We we we just approved the modification.
>> Yeah. So, I'm I'm at the
[1:17:30] » thing about a uh Hold on.
>> Yeah. I don't have anything about a
[1:17:36] final for Miller
>> for for the uh the comments for the for
[1:17:40] the Miller.
>> Correct. Yeah, it was only modification
[1:17:43] request.
>> Yeah, you have you have the plan.
[1:17:46] » Got the plan.
>> Okay.
[1:17:50] the the comments um they're all
administrative that are outstanding and
[1:17:55] it's not a CSD Davidson review letter.
It's a York County Planning Commission
[1:17:59] review letter.
>> We need to modify the motion we have.
[1:18:04] » Yeah. Yes.
>> Include that.
[1:18:06] » You're talking about the plan, correct?
Not the modifications.
[1:18:08] » We haven't gotten to the plan yet.
>> No, I you
[1:18:12] » we're fine for the modifications.
>> Right.
[1:18:14] » Did you vote on the modifications?
You're done and over. We're on the plan.
[1:18:18] Correct.
>> Okay.
[1:18:19] » So, if you make a motion and a second
and vote on the plan,
[1:18:23] » you're right. I'm sorry.
>> It needs to be conditional upon the York
[1:18:26] County Planning Commission.
>> Correct. October 3rd.
[1:18:28] » October 3rd, 2025.
>> Yes.
[1:18:31] » Um, so moved.
>> Okay.
[1:18:34] » Second.
>> So, we have a motion in the second that
[1:18:38] we approve the minor subdivision plan
conditional upon the outstanding issues
[1:18:43] and the York County Planning Commission.
What? from October 3rd, 2025.
[1:18:49] » Thank you. October 3rd, 2025.
>> I said so move so I would have to say it
[1:18:54] all again.
>> That's all right.
[1:18:56] » We got there.
>> Okay. So you your motion stands.
[1:19:00] » Thank you.
>> I second it.
[1:19:02] » Second question.
>> So move.
[1:19:06] » I
>> I
[1:19:07] » I
>> I move the affirmative. We've approved
[1:19:10] that. Thanks for keeping us straight.
>> You're right.
[1:19:13] » Tim left early. We could have used that.
>> [clears throat]
[1:19:17] » the the next two um item D and E are
simply reapprovals which is a time
[1:19:23] reapproval because if you recall after
the board conditionally approves it has
[1:19:28] to be recorded within 90 days otherwise
the board has to reapprove it. Um so
[1:19:33] there's still a couple of administrative
items that need addressed in both of
[1:19:36] these plans. Um you can if you wish you
could do that just in one motion for
[1:19:41] both of those plans for an additional
90day
[1:19:44] » for 20 2446 town and for Phantom.
>> Correct.
[1:19:48] » And that's for an additional 90-day
approval.
[1:19:50] » Correct.
>> Make motion to extend an additional 90
[1:19:55] days for 2446 Htown Road and Phantom
Fireworks.
[1:20:01] » Second. I have a motion and second to
extend the approval by Approval process
[1:20:09] questions vote.
>> I
[1:20:11] » I
>> I
[1:20:12] » I
>> I defer those plans are reapproved
[1:20:18] and all the reports believe that now
brings us to reports
[1:20:23] and the manager reports in front of you.
Todd, anything you want to add to it?
[1:20:28] » Uh not really unless anyone has any
questions. Um of course you talked about
[1:20:34] grants and so forth. We actually have
five different projects that are open uh
[1:20:38] from park improvements to curb and
sidewalk to the Miller Park. Um the
[1:20:45] the two of them are Hangtown Park
playground improvements as well as Windy
[1:20:50] Hill Park improvements, which is the
addition of a pavilion. Um those are
[1:20:55] both moving forward and anticipate to be
completed by middle of December.
[1:21:01] » A lot of piles of dirt and construction
going on as you drove in here. So that's
[1:21:06] the Htown Park approvements all
>> probably too dark then. But
[1:21:10] » what's that?
>> Probably too dark at that time. But
[1:21:15] » but other than that
>> the sidewalk,
[1:21:20] » where are we on the sidewalk grant?
>> Um the engineer, uh Jeff Shu, CSD
[1:21:26] Davidson, they're still doing surveying.
They're they're working on getting plans
[1:21:30] together, but um he anticipates that
he'll have everything shovel ready as
[1:21:36] far as the plans and bid specs and
everything, but we're probably looking
[1:21:39] at uh 2027 before we actually go out for
bid in the spring and construction that
[1:21:45] summer.
>> And um for the public's benefit, this is
[1:21:48] going to be sidewalks connecting what to
what?
[1:21:50] » Yeah, this is to connect.
We have the new Royal Farms. We have the
[1:21:55] Audi's. They have curbon sidewalk.
There's curbon sidewalk on under 83. Um,
[1:22:00] but going up Wolf Road toward um the
Burger King and Cracker Barrel,
[1:22:06] whatever. There's no sidewalk on the
whole way up there. And of course from
[1:22:10] 83 up to Mount Eerie Road and up in
front of the Walmart and so forth,
[1:22:14] there's no curb sidewalk. So, this
project would curb and sidewalk the rest
[1:22:19] of that area. And to give you an
example, that's a million dollar
[1:22:23] project. We have received two grants
that cover the bulk of that cost and we
[1:22:29] are seeking a third one that we think we
have a good chance of being successful
[1:22:34] with that would require or would cover
all the costs. If it doesn't, then we'll
[1:22:40] probably appeal to some of the merchants
along the way to help fund it. We can
[1:22:45] require that. Um, but we're we will try
to do it on a voluntary basis rather
[1:22:51] than enforce it. But one way or another,
we should get most of that covered. And
[1:22:55] I believe the two grants for the park,
Hang Town, was that a matching?
[1:22:59] » Yeah, Hangtown. [clears throat]
Um, for the two parks, we received uh
[1:23:04] $493,000
toward those two.
[1:23:08] And for the urban sidewalk project, we
received grants to date totaling
[1:23:13] $760,000.
Um then a Miller Park already talked
[1:23:17] about that. And then we have a matching
grant to do that master plan update for
[1:23:23] Miller Park
>> if if this materializes with the land
[1:23:26] purchase. So
>> and these these grants come from
[1:23:29] different places. They might come from
your county. They can come from some of
[1:23:33] the conservation districts. They can
and the casino.
[1:23:38] » So the first thing is
>> some of it's casino funds grants.
[1:23:43] » So the the first thing is we need to
make ourselves aware that those grant
[1:23:47] potentials are out there and then
hopefully we're smarter than the other
[1:23:51] people applying and can be successful
and um we've been very successful. We
[1:23:56] feel good about that in our projects. I
see more and more people I think
[1:24:01] hazardly walking along um 851 from
somewhere down around 83 up and around
[1:24:08] and that's pretty dangerous place to go.
So that's been a high priority. We
[1:24:12] actually tried to get that grant for
what three years joined with Shrewberry
[1:24:19] which would allow them to go into the
burrow and we were not successful. Last
[1:24:23] year we said we're going to try one more
time. the borrow said we're not and we
[1:24:28] were successful and it may be because
the dollar value was less by not
[1:24:32] combining with the burrow and hopefully
they'll have success on their own as
[1:24:37] well but again uh a lot of kudos to Todd
because he's the person we did for the
[1:24:44] sidewalks he's actually a specialist in
grant writing because we saw that amount
[1:24:50] of money uh we needed a little help
along the way so I am corrected Right.
[1:24:57] » Yes.
>> Yeah.
[1:24:58] » And it was our engineering firm CS Davis
and the NASA firms and I think they
[1:25:02] helped us be successful in that.
>> Anything else on your report or any
[1:25:07] questions that anybody has?
Uh you note that we are hosting an ELAP
[1:25:14] class on November 13th on local road
safety. Um I think there's probably
[1:25:20] positions if anybody wants to attend
that. And you know I think it's here.
[1:25:27] » You have in front of you the zoning
officer code enforcement report group of
[1:25:32] the board spent some time in detail
going over this earlier. I don't know if
[1:25:36] there are any other questions on it or
not. Anything wants to emphasize?
[1:25:42] » No, nothing additional.
>> It's a rather lengthy report that tells
[1:25:46] us um what's happening in code
enforcement, sewage enforcement, zoning
[1:25:51] enforcement, and allows us to track it
and make sure things are moving and
[1:25:56] we're aware of what's going on. Quite a
few pages to that report.
[1:26:02] Um, we also get a report from
[clears throat]
[1:26:05] uh maintenance, our own maintenance
department.
[1:26:09] Anything in there that you probably want
to address the speed study. Anything
[1:26:13] else?
>> Yeah. The only thing I'll just uh
[1:26:14] quickly mention here, Stealth Road,
which is for background, can you kind of
[1:26:19] couple words to the people that are um
we did a we have the capability of doing
[1:26:24] a speed study. Some of you folks may
have already seen it where we have the
[1:26:27] signs along the road and it flashes what
your speed is.
[1:26:30] um we get when we get complaints about
speeding or whatever, we'll go out to
[1:26:35] that particular area. We'll set up the
the radar signs in both directions and
[1:26:39] for about two weeks, we don't monitor um
with the display just to get a base of
[1:26:44] what the speed is. Um but we have found
as long as we've been doing them now for
[1:26:49] probably two years at least, if not
longer. It's really interesting because
[1:26:53] you have two weeks where you don't have
the display showing.
[1:26:57] And when you start showing the display,
believe it or not, really doesn't make
[1:27:00] any difference. On average, it reduces
per week about one mile per hour. So, if
[1:27:06] it's flashing at you, it doesn't matter.
[laughter] So, doesn't seem to standing
[1:27:11] next to you found that.
>> Um, but what we normally do is a six
[1:27:14] week study. Um, and what does it does
the average daily count of vehicles, uh,
[1:27:20] what the average speed is and what the
85th percentile speed is. And um if it's
[1:27:26] a township road, we could, you know,
potentially adjust the speed limit
[1:27:30] signs. If it's a state road, we could
make a request to PennDOT, but they must
[1:27:35] do the traffic study and determine
whether or not that they'll change the
[1:27:39] signage. Um so at minimum, what we'll
do, and what we will do with this one,
[1:27:44] because it does indicate a little bit of
a speeding issue,
[1:27:47] » we do notify the Pennsylvania State
Police uh of the location. and we share
[1:27:52] our results and then they usually show
some presents for a little while to help
[1:27:58] try to curb that. But uh this was on
Stealth Road uh route 851 between
[1:28:03] birthday club road and road. The posted
speed limit is 40 miles per hour. Um on
[1:28:13] the westbound lane
um the 85th percentile was 48 miles per
[1:28:18] hour over the this was actually a 7we
study and then on the eastbound heading
[1:28:25] toward road that 85th percentile was 52
miles per hour and again it's posted at
[1:28:32] 40. So we will pass this information
along to the state police and ask them
[1:28:38] to show some presence. I think a
particular concern is that um westbound
[1:28:44] six or 6% of the cars exceeded 50 miles
an hour and eastbound 21% of the
[1:28:52] vehicles exceeded 50 mph. And that's a
total of 46,000 vehicles in one
[1:28:59] direction and 39,000 in the other
direction. So it's probably only the
[1:29:04] third one we've done that says we need
to try to have the police look at this.
[1:29:09] We do not You may or may not know, we do
not have a regional police force here.
[1:29:14] The burrows that surround us do. Um, you
see your tax bill really go up if we do
[1:29:20] participate. It's about a million
dollars a year. State police are pretty
[1:29:24] good. They will follow up and request
it. They come to a couple of our
[1:29:28] meetings each uh year to ask kind of
what's going on, what's happening. Not a
[1:29:33] lot of crime here. Most of it is here is
at the Walmart. And it's as many fights
[1:29:38] in the parking lot as it is people, you
know, stealing stuff from the store.
[1:29:43] » But anyway, that's kind of what we do
with with that. So you will you also um
[1:29:50] provide a copy of this to the people
that bought that.
[1:29:55] » On that space, we had eight of them 81
to 85 mile.
[1:30:03] That seems a little excessive.
>> I might have driven past that a couple
[1:30:08] of weeks ago doing 50.
>> And it's a sight restricted, too. It's
[1:30:13] you can't see.
>> That's one where we put the school bus.
[1:30:17] » Yeah. 80 is excessive.
>> Yeah.
[1:30:20] » All right. Thanks, Todd. Anything else?
>> No.
[1:30:24] We have the report from CS Davidson who
is our contracted engineer and it's a
[1:30:30] several pages of things that he's
involved in in tracking and keeps us up
[1:30:34] to date. Um questions that anybody has.
He's usually very thorough in this
[1:30:40] information.
Um recreation commission for again few
[1:30:47] people that are still here. We joined
with New Freedom Burrow to establish a
[1:30:54] joint recreation commission. Again,
another grant was involved. We received
[1:30:59] what's what's the grant called? A um
>> circuit rider.
[1:31:02] » Circuit rider. So, for four years, we
have a grant that covers the cost of us
[1:31:08] hiring a recreation director. Uh full
salary the first year, 75%, 50%, 25%,
[1:31:17] and then nothing. years and the goal is
that they will establish new programs
[1:31:22] and be able to basically justify their
existence five years from now. Um so
[1:31:29] that's been about a year and a half and
the uh initial director we hired um got
[1:31:37] married, moved out of the area and had
some other opportunity. So we're in the
[1:31:41] process now of hiring um a new rec
director. I believe we have
[1:31:48] of interview set up for a little bit
later this month to interview several
[1:31:53] people. We were fortunate to get some
people fairly qualified. Um Jeff Rol is
[1:31:59] our representative from the board to
that commission. Uh there's a
[1:32:03] representative from
Burrow and there are two other
[1:32:08] representatives or four from the
>> two or three. That's three plus.
[1:32:16] Yeah. And it's three uh one council
member and three residents for new free.
[1:32:22] » Did I miss anything in reporting?
>> We didn't have any minutes or anything
[1:32:27] from the last meeting because of Gina
not not having Gina things have not been
[1:32:33] a whole lot happen.
>> Trying to keep some things going and
[1:32:38] look forward to getting a new director.
get some new energy in that.
[1:32:43] » I don't think we have anybody from fire
and EMS. I don't know that we have
[1:32:48] anything.
>> No, I just want to update on the
[1:32:50] markets. Um they're making a lot of
improvements. Uh you know, for safety
[1:32:56] » to the emergency exits
>> to the emergency exits. The the doors
[1:32:59] have all been addressed.
>> Good.
[1:33:01] » Um they're doing a lot of other work as
far as some lighting, uh fire pull arms
[1:33:07] and so forth. They're not required to do
that because they're a pre-existing
[1:33:11] building, but they're voluntarily doing
that. So, they've been very good to work
[1:33:15] with.
>> This is the market of Shrewsbury, which
[1:33:18] is the outage market up the road. The
fire department had done some inspection
[1:33:23] and found doors blocked and things like
that. They came to the township and
[1:33:28] asked for help because it's something
that our building and code inspector can
[1:33:32] can enforce. I'd say they've been very
cooperative in correcting. I was saying
[1:33:38] the uh uh Shrewsbury Burough Fire
Department said they wouldn't go into
[1:33:42] it. Correct. In its current state.
>> What have what happens if it really gets
[1:33:47] bad? They issue a um do not enter where
no fire department will go in to because
[1:33:53] of the hazards that's in there. So they
have been under that status. This last
[1:33:57] time they did go to that they were
>> Yeah, those have been lifted.
[1:34:01] » They've been lifted. I I believe p
primarily it was because emergency exits
[1:34:07] were blocked or unable to be exited and
in the event of an emergency the way
[1:34:12] Brad explained it before um they need to
be able to get out if the building's
[1:34:16] coming down they need to know where
those exits are. So if they're unable
[1:34:20] to, they're blocked or they're locked
and unable. Um he wasn't going to send
[1:34:24] his people in um to
>> direct that comes from York County.
[1:34:28] Nobody is allowed to enter.
>> Not the public, but the fire department
[1:34:34] that it there
you have anything for us?
[1:34:39] We have an emergency manage manager.
Let me start over.
[1:34:47] What is that? title management
coordinator.
[1:34:50] » I am uh Stan Walters. I live I live at
26 Essex Circle Drive in Shrewsbury
[1:34:56] Burough and I am your appointed
emergency management coordinator.
[1:35:00] » There it is.
>> Uh we do have a regional EMA. So, um,
[1:35:05] originally I was the EMC for Shrewsbury
Burrow and then your volunteer uh
[1:35:11] departed for some reason or another and
Todd sought uh council from Cindy at the
[1:35:17] burrow and said, "Who's your emergency
management coordinator?" And then, uh, I
[1:35:22] agreed to become your appointed
coordinator if you would pursue
[1:35:26] regionalization. So today we have a
regional emergency management agency
[1:35:31] that comprises the township and all four
of the bureaus previously mentioned that
[1:35:36] are encapsulated in it. And that allows
us to have a single plan uh single
[1:35:41] staff. We're very fortunate to have two
emergency operations centers. one
[1:35:46] located here at the township building
and the other one uh is the Shrewsbury
[1:35:51] Burough uh council room turns into an
emergency operations center when we open
[1:35:57] all the cabinets at at one end of it.
And if anybody would like to see that,
[1:36:01] they can uh contact the municipality
they live in and they can get a hold of
[1:36:06] me. I'm happy to give tours and show
people uh the the emergency operations
[1:36:11] centers and give a brief overview of
what we do. uh tonight you should have
[1:36:15] before you I I know it was a last minute
this afternoon a report so I don't know
[1:36:20] if Todd
>> so they do not have it in front of you.
[1:36:22] » Okay. All right. So Todd didn't have a
chance to uh we can access.
[1:36:26] » So just to review it. So during the
month of October uh our drought
[1:36:31] conditions uh not only return but they
worsened from what they were. I know I
[1:36:37] know a lot of people uh probably have a
misconception of well we had two inches
[1:36:41] of rain last week but that that's not
enough to alleviate a drought. U so when
[1:36:46] you do get the report you'll have a map
that is produced uh by the state uh
[1:36:52] showing the condition we're in. It's not
terrible. We're at D0 out of uh it goes
[1:36:56] to D4. So we're at the early stages but
we're having some very dry weather now.
[1:37:02] There's a line of storms that's going to
come in, but there have been some
[1:37:06] concerns about fire here in the last
couple of days. Uh we're continuing to
[1:37:10] review the EOP to get that uh to you for
uh promulgation so you can readopt it
[1:37:17] before the end of the year. Um,
we're also still continuing to work on
[1:37:23] getting all the radios upgraded so that
we can talk directly to the three fire
[1:37:28] departments on their u uh station
channels. Uh, and uh we're circulating a
[1:37:36] doodle poll to try to get enough
interest in the elected officials
[1:37:41] training that normally occurs in
February of each year. Uh Bill James
[1:37:47] from the York County Office of Emergency
Management is willing to come down here.
[1:37:51] There are uh some dates uh mentioned in
the email I sent out that you'll see
[1:37:56] once you get that. Um he'll do the class
down here if we can generate enough
[1:38:02] interest to do it. We don't have to wait
till the dead of winter in February or
[1:38:07] go all the way to York to do it. So
hoping to get some interest in that.
[1:38:13] We are waiting on shelter agreements
from uh two uh entities here. Uh the
[1:38:20] York County Office of Emergency
Management is basically seeking to
[1:38:24] expand uh shelter capacity uh in the
county beyond what the Red Cross is
[1:38:31] capable of doing. They rely a lot on
schools and there's no way they can't
[1:38:36] force a school to give up space in a
school like during a school day for a
[1:38:40] shelter. So, they came up with an
agreement. They've approached uh Grace
[1:38:45] Fellowship on the top of the old Kmart
Hill and also the new Freedom Burough
[1:38:51] Community Center as possible uh shelter
locations that we could use in the event
[1:38:56] that we needed a mass shelter of some
kind. Uh and those are pending.
[1:39:03] uh the committee that oversees me uh
authorized the change in our uh cloud
[1:39:08] storage from 5 gigabytes to two
terabytes. I just need to come over and
[1:39:13] uh catch Todd when he's here and has
free time and we'll go in the ELC and
[1:39:18] and make that update. Uh
accomplishments, we we conducted the
[1:39:24] fall community exercise at the
Shrewberry Burough EOC on October 7th
[1:39:30] and we had representation from all the
municipalities for that exercise. It it
[1:39:35] was run by county through Zoom and uh
basically they gave us a scenario that
[1:39:42] required um the use of uh a PIO function
or public information officer. The
[1:39:51] scenario was there was a large community
event about to start a couple days and
[1:39:57] they were expecting outside agitators.
Uh so there was additional security
[1:40:02] being requested. There were also a lot
of rumors and disinformation on social
[1:40:07] media. And so the exercise we had was
for about 20 minutes was to tabletop
[1:40:12] that information and figure out what we
would do as EMA and elected officials to
[1:40:19] make sure the event didn't have to be
cancelled. And so it was a good walk
[1:40:23] through of um our some of our checklists
and thoughts about PIO functions.
[1:40:30] Uh we also took part in the national
night out that was held on the carnival
[1:40:35] grounds behind station 61 in Shrewsbury.
Uh we used our canopy for the first time
[1:40:42] and uh two of us successfully set that
up. But we had uh information from Puma.
[1:40:48] We had coloring books from kids for kids
uh from the from the Red Cross. Uh they
[1:40:55] have like a series of of coloring books
uh that use a a little penguin called
[1:41:00] Pedro. Something that you know it's not
scary to kids, but it teaches them about
[1:41:04] emergency preparedness and like a fire
in the home and things like that. So we
[1:41:09] were handing those things out to people
who were there. The helicopter and the
[1:41:12] fire trucks were more interesting
>> well than than we were. But there was
[1:41:17] free pizza [snorts] and free uh uh
Rita's uh ice was there too. How well
[1:41:23] was it attending?
>> Uh, you know, the it's sponsored and
[1:41:28] hosted by the police department, by
Southern Regional. Um, I mean, they
[1:41:35] it's hard to gauge. I mean, maybe there
was a couple thousand tops.
[1:41:40] » Okay.
>> I mean, because people came and left,
[1:41:42] » right?
>> And uh but you know, the fire department
[1:41:46] demonstrated
uh using the jaws to cut up a car that
[1:41:50] they had there. Um they had several K-9
demonstrations.
[1:41:55] Uh somebody flew in a helicopter and
they were allowing people to get in, sit
[1:41:59] in the helicopter. They weren't getting
rides, but you know, you could get in it
[1:42:03] and see the controls and stuff like
that. Then there were a number of um
[1:42:08] community organizations that were there
uh handing out things. So yeah,
[1:42:14] » I I thought it went well. And unlike
unlike the prior year, there was no
[1:42:19] windstorm that came along and tried to
blow all the canopies away, which was
[1:42:23] good. Um, so, uh, if you have any
questions now or after you see the
[1:42:29] report, um, by all means, let me know.
>> Thanks.
[1:42:32] » For those left, Stan is a volunteer, a
very hardworking volunteer. I took my
[1:42:38] hat to the hours he spent and I did
participate in the exercise he was
[1:42:44] talking about, but always stay. We
appreciate what you do.
[1:42:49] Uh I think we have you have a report I
think from the last sewer committee. Any
[1:42:54] questions from that?
[1:42:59] [snorts]
Okay. [clears throat]
[1:43:02] And um we did um I just add we did have
a uh ad hoc ordinance committee meeting.
[1:43:08] the first one we've had in a while
identified some ordinances that we think
[1:43:13] we need to prioritize to begin to work
on things for like data centers and um
[1:43:20] especially data centers and artificial
intelligence that are [clears throat]
[1:43:25] reappearing or appearing everywhere done
that I did the planning commission and
[1:43:32] zoning hearing board typically there are
no questions but
[1:43:39] And uh that brings us to all business of
our young chairman report. So
[1:43:43] » I say it wasn't on the uh the agenda,
but yes.
[1:43:47] » Where's that?
>> The board chair report wasn't on the
[1:43:50] agenda, but yes,
>> I didn't see it.
[1:43:54] » It's under supervisor comments.
>> Yeah, it's here.
[1:43:57] » My apologies.
>> It was
[1:44:00] there. It overlooked it. The only thing
I would point out that might be of
[1:44:05] interest is um learned from the LC class
LGAC meeting. Penn State University is
[1:44:13] giving a one hour Revit webinar which
means like a Zoom meeting on data center
[1:44:19] on November 19th and since that's a item
of concern and high priority for
[1:44:24] ordinance if anybody gets a chance to
tune into that if you go on their
[1:44:27] website uh you register it's easy to do
that. I've done that and then they send
[1:44:33] you the information so you can um sign
into the website.
[1:44:38] I think it's from 11:00 to noon I
believe.
[1:44:43] That's kind of the highlight I would
from mine. Any comments from anybody
[1:44:48] else?
All right. Now we have some old
[1:44:53] business. I think these are basically
all updates from Todd. So
[1:44:58] » I already addressed the first one. deal
with parks,
[1:45:01] » park improvements.
>> Yes, we have covered that. That's right.
[1:45:04] » Library. I saw they're having a book
sale. That didn't fill me with
[1:45:08] confidence.
>> Um, I can give you an update on that.
[1:45:13] Paul Smith has basically been forced to
become a branch. So, they will not be a
[1:45:17] member library. They are in the process
of trying to we had a meeting earlier
[1:45:22] this week with
>> our idea. Um they um are trying
[1:45:28] basically to negotiate the best deal
they can and in addition to the contract
[1:45:33] they need to sign. They're also trying
to to get a memorandum of understanding
[1:45:39] which would
put additional requirements on the
[1:45:43] library [clears throat] system how they
support uh Paul Smith. Uh so both
[1:45:48] libraries are going to become branches.
Um it's either that or it's just
[1:45:52] independently which they really can't do
that.
[1:45:56] » Um so we're trying to get the best deal
out of that they can. Their hours will
[1:46:01] definitely be reduced. Don't know how
much yet. Staff will probably have some
[1:46:05] reduction and so will some of the other
programs that they offer, but I think
[1:46:10] they're committed to do the best they
can and we will need to be looking at um
[1:46:16] how the way we fund things going
forward. We don't have any money due to
[1:46:21] them anytime soon.
It's
[1:46:25] » already been dispersed, isn't it?
>> Yeah, we the
[1:46:29] » Yeah, but we'll do a final one in
December.
[1:46:32] » So, what we do, we want to make sure
that's to the friends of the library.
[1:46:36] Otherwise, it just goes to the county
library.
[1:46:39] » Um, and maybe even earmark it for some
project. But, so before we cut a check,
[1:46:45] Todd, make sure we talk I'll verify
that. But let me uh
[1:46:55] » Okay.
>> Are you doing that now?
[1:46:58] » No, I I'm I'm making myself a note.
>> Okay. So, you're up again on the uh
[1:47:04] contract completed, I guess.
>> Yeah. I don't have a whole lot to to
[1:47:07] report since last month because Art and
I finally got were able to get together
[1:47:12] yesterday and um we have a couple things
I'm going to shoot a letter off uh if
[1:47:17] not tomorrow probably be Monday or
Tuesday to the SPCA try to get some
[1:47:21] additional information. So I will
definitely have that for our December
[1:47:25] meeting because we'll have to make a
decision at that point in time.
[1:47:28] » Okay.
[1:47:31] » Boundary road.
uh Boundary Road. Just let you know that
[1:47:35] I did talk to the uh property owner uh
again and he is going to actually get
[1:47:41] his property surveyed. So once he has
that completed, he's going to contact
[1:47:45] me.
>> Uh we'll meet with him and and kind of
[1:47:49] see where that falls
>> in what was boundary road at that point.
[1:47:54] » And that's the only property would have
to be surveyed.
[1:47:56] » Yeah.
>> Yep.
[1:47:58] » Okay,
sounds good. Any questions on any of
[1:48:03] those to Todd?
Um, then we have uh new business and I
[1:48:09] guess the main thing there is that we
authorize advertisement of the proposed
[1:48:13] 2026 budget. I'll make a motion that we
authorize advertisement of the 2026
[1:48:20] budget.
>> Second.
[1:48:24] » Take your pick. I think it was a tie.
>> Was the second?
[1:48:28] » I'll give it to Jeff.
>> Don't matter. We have a motion and a
[1:48:31] second to authorize advertisement of
proposed budget for 2026. Question.
[1:48:37] We shall vote.
>> I
[1:48:39] » I
>> I
[1:48:40] » I
>> I votes affirmative. We have voted to
[1:48:44] authorize advertisement and that will
come up for us to approve in December.
[1:48:49] Right.
>> Correct.
[1:48:51] » Has to be done in December by the NBC
requirements. I was going to say if it's
[1:48:56] a new supervisor,
it's able to be reopened in January, but
[1:49:01] I I don't think that qualifies in this.
>> Correct.
[1:49:05] » You are correct.
>> Just for the record, congratulations
[1:49:09] again, Bob, on your landslide.
[clears throat]
[1:49:14] » Uh we have three storm order agreements.
They're all our standard agreement and
[1:49:19] unless Todd feels otherwise, I think we
can handle all those in one motion. I'd
[1:49:23] make a motion to approve the storm water
agreements for one Makulla Drive, 224
[1:49:29] West Forest Avenue and 1724 Htown Road.
>> I'll second it. Questions before we
[1:49:37] vote. I'll call for the vote.
>> I
[1:49:39] » I
>> I
[1:49:40] » I
>> I post the affirmative. Approve the
[1:49:44] three storm water agreements.
>> No correspondence this time.
[1:49:46] » No correspondence this time. I've got
one new business.
[1:49:51] Um,
can we add new business?
[1:49:56] » He can comment on it. You just won't be
able to deliberate if it's something to
[1:50:01] deliberate on because it's not on the
agenda. But he could certainly raise it,
[1:50:05] » right? You can bring it up, but we can't
vote on it.
[1:50:07] » Correct.
>> Go ahead. Okay.
[1:50:11] Pennsylvania PATS PSATS they have a
model ordinance available for
[1:50:16] implementing supervisor compensation
and u it's based on the compensation is
[1:50:23] based on the township population and
ours is 5,000
[1:50:29] to 9,999
population category. The current caps
[1:50:35] paid to the supervisors are $2,500.
And this is I don't know the exact
[1:50:42] number of years, but this has been in
effect for 10, maybe 15 years.
[1:50:46] » 15 probably.
>> Probably 15 years. Okay. So I'm I'm
[1:50:52] thinking that um I'd like to make a
proposal to increase that act 94 of 24
[1:51:00] which uh came out in October 31st one
year ago in 20 October 3124
[1:51:07] uh they posted new maximum thresholds
for supervisor compensation. So, in our
[1:51:13] group, the new caps effective December
1st of 24 were $4,190.
[1:51:21] So, I'm proposing um if if I'm not sure
we'll have it tonight, but for sure put
[1:51:28] it on December's agenda. Okay. That um
[1:51:35] lost my train of thought, but basically
I'm proposing that we adopt the new
[1:51:40] caps. Um, who knows, could be another 10
years, 15 years before it's changed
[1:51:45] again. Now, the way this works is if we
were to vote on it, you know, in the
[1:51:50] near future,
it doesn't take effect for anybody until
[1:51:56] they're newly elected. Okay? So, for so
u I'll just use some examples. I'll just
[1:52:05] say for myself, I've got four years I've
got three years left to go before I run
[1:52:10] for election if I choose to do so. So, I
would still stay at $2,500
[1:52:16] as the rest of us because I think you
and I are the next one up for election
[1:52:21] » until we were elected again. But I just
feel that
[1:52:25] um it's worthwhile to make the
adjustment that's been allow now allowed
[1:52:31] after 15 years or so.
And you're saying we can't have a
[1:52:38] motion?
>> No, we have to have it on the agenda.
[1:52:41] Have a motion.
>> So I'm proposing that we and voting yes
[1:52:45] that we put it on the agenda for next
month.
[1:52:48] » All you have to do is
>> Yeah, I I can put it on the agenda. So
[1:52:51] yeah,
>> just for general knowledge, we did look
[1:52:54] at this probably about a year ago and
the board elected not to um
[1:53:00] » and increase and again each individual
option but um
[1:53:05] » 6 to8 months
>> it couldn't affect any could not affect
[1:53:08] the city. So
>> who knows I may not [snorts] be elected
[1:53:12] again I may not run again but I just
think as a policy that it's worthwhile
[1:53:17] that we make the pay adjustment.
Okay,
[1:53:22] we'll see that on
next next month's agenda. Um, don't have
[1:53:28] any correspondence, but you do have I
think everybody had a schedule or a
[1:53:32] table of kind of the things we'll be
doing year end. So, it's a pretty
[1:53:37] lengthy schedule. So, I gave everybody a
copy of that should have been in the
[1:53:41] things you have if not
>> this.
[1:53:46] » I did not.
Thank you, gentlemen.
[1:53:56] » You didn't look.
Um, so we do have an opportunity for
[1:54:00] public comment. One gentleman left. So,
I don't know if he wishes to address the
[1:54:04] board on anything.
>> Yeah. What the heck?
[1:54:10] » Actually, I'm not from your township.
From a neighboring township.
[1:54:14] » Well, we'll listen to you. We just we'll
only listen with one of your good
[1:54:18] neighbors.
>> Name's Jack Coug 2601 Opal Heights
[1:54:22] Drive. The only modular home in that
trailer park. Um first of all, you want
[1:54:29] to hold on to him forever because Grant
writers are hard to come by. We know.
[1:54:33] » Okay. Well, thank you. [laughter]
>> I mean really we have how many more
[1:54:38] years Todd? Two. You can't control your
parks that knowledge on success being
[1:54:44] » you got you guys gave me a lot of pats
on the back for you know as as a former
[1:54:48] public servant
>> the successor is sitting right here so
[1:54:51] » okay
>> you better be taking
[1:54:56] » but uh first of all I'm impressed with
your facility here compared to I
[1:55:00] probably attend no less than six
meetings a week
[1:55:04] » what I'm trying to do is learn more
about the area I'm fairly new to the
[1:55:07] area only three
But I'm learning how you all operate
[1:55:11] differently but yet still alike.
Uh but I'm impressed with your facility
[1:55:17] because some of them are just I can't
hear them. They have no microphones.
[1:55:22] You guys got
>> Well, we've been in this for for um
[1:55:26] » two little over two years.
>> A little over two years. before we had
[1:55:30] our offices about a mile up the road and
our maintenance group was here and that
[1:55:36] that building was in pretty bad shape.
So, long story short,
[1:55:39] » that's where most of them are in the
maintenance buildings.
[1:55:42] » We said that that's where it was before
long time ago.
[1:55:46] » So, we said, well, let's bring them all
together.
[1:55:48] » And we kind of over the our time knew
what we thought would work, whether it's
[1:55:54] monitors or a nice area both for our
employees. We employ
[1:55:59] Are we up to eight now outside?
>> 7. So we employ
[1:56:06] I guess 11 10 11.
>> We have 11 full time now.
[1:56:09] » It's a nice place for them to come to
work. They can feel if you go into the
[1:56:13] maintenance section, it looks just as
good as this does. It's it's got a lift
[1:56:18] and a wash bay and all those things. So
we thought we knew we knew we wanted
[1:56:23] lobby space where people could wait. We
have a really nice conference room next
[1:56:27] door. So those things can be going on.
So,
[1:56:30] » what's funny is many times I've been by
here, I didn't know it was back here.
[1:56:34] » I saw the park
look beyond the park. But, uh, and the
[1:56:38] other thing is is
I like how you explain to people what
[1:56:44] you're doing even though some people are
wondering what you're doing, but but
[1:56:49] you're explaining to people what they're
looking at on the agenda and stuff.
[1:56:54] Other them don't. They just roll right
along the agenda. So, I got to
[1:56:57] compliment you guys on that as well.
>> Thank you.
[1:56:59] » I noticed no women on the board, but
>> we have one. She resigned.
[1:57:05] » They have We've got two on the planning
commission now.
[1:57:08] » Do you Well, I'm also looking at a
planning position.
[1:57:12] » And we did have um
>> We did have two
[1:57:14] » up up into two. Okay.
>> We had two.
[1:57:17] » Yeah, there were two on
>> in the early like
[1:57:21] » Sue and Cynthia 10 years ago.
>> Yeah. like 20 minutes and then they went
[1:57:26] off and Ann was on.
>> Yeah.
[1:57:27] » And then Ann resigned.
>> I don't want to waste your time. You've
[1:57:32] been here long enough.
>> Well, don't waste time when you
[1:57:35] [clears throat] tell us good things.
[snorts]
[1:57:37] [laughter]
>> Yeah. We'll even extend it to six or
[1:57:39] seven minutes if you're going to say
nice things.
[1:57:41] » Oh, well,
>> I'm kidding. We're not allowed to make
[1:57:43] exceptions.
>> I got to get home, too. I have a
[1:57:46] [clears throat]
>> Well, thank you very much for saying
[1:57:48] those things. Someday, if you have the
time, come up. They'll give you a good
[1:57:51] tour. Actually, I've talked to him on
the telephone already
[1:57:56] » and I talked to someone on the
commission
[1:58:01] » about the bees about the bee ordinance
that somebody was trying to introduce
[1:58:05] somewhere.
>> Well, that may have been um
[1:58:08] » Bur Shrewberry Burrow.
>> That was Shrewsbury.
[1:58:11] » But but I but no, but I I called both
because
[1:58:15] » I'm learning, you know, the biggest
thing I'm learning is there's little
[1:58:17] tiny towns that are now burrows. I
always thought they were towns, but
[1:58:20] they're burrows. Where where did you
live before here?
[1:58:25] » Before here, um on a waterfront down in
Baltimore County.
[1:58:29] » Oh, that's good. So So you're learning
the difference between a Commonwealth
[1:58:33] and So York County is about the size of
Baltimore County. Yes.
[1:58:38] » It has 72 independent municipalities
that are self-governing.
[1:58:43] » Believe me, I've been very
>> very little county level support.
[1:58:47] There's no county police force, right?
>> Um you know, I think there's any
[1:58:51] [clears throat] county road department
is it?
[1:58:55] » So that's the so every so it makes it a
little difficult because we all have a
[1:59:01] little difference in our ordinances. We
are all self governing but Pennsylvania
[1:59:06] looks at driving it down to the low
level and that's that's us. We're the
[1:59:10] low level. What people don't realize
when they go to elections that we
[1:59:15] probably have more to say about what's
going to happen in the quality and
[1:59:20] safety later,
>> you're right. And that's that's one of
[1:59:25] the biggest things I've learned. I I
used to work for a House of Justice
[1:59:28] member in Maryland and u and everything
was so widespread, you know, nothing
[1:59:34] came down local and uh
>> they both have advantages. They both
[1:59:39] disad and they both have their
disadvantages.
[1:59:41] » We try to do more and more in
combination with the burrows we surround
[1:59:47] so that um we're not duplicating or if
they need an extra dump truck to pave or
[1:59:53] we need one or we have some equipment we
buy and share because none of us need
[1:59:59] » can afford it.
>> We're trying to do the recreation
[2:00:02] council that we're starting again. All
those things we're trying
[2:00:05] » Yeah. because I'm used to on the other
side of 83. used to hire and and that
[2:00:09] operation and like you say, they hired a
guy and he's doing a great job of
[2:00:13] raising money for them to keep
sustaining his salary.
[2:00:17] » So, but
>> so we're trying to do more of that. But
[2:00:19] the downside is we're certified three
volunteer fire departments, so we have
[2:00:25] to try to support them.
>> Yeah. We were certified two EMS
[2:00:28] departments. So we have to try to So
that makes it where the burrow but the
[2:00:34] distance you the difference you probably
seen burrows are smaller, more compact,
[2:00:39] probably not as much population as a
township, but it's compacted together.
[2:00:44] » We're spread out
>> and they don't have most of them don't
[2:00:46] have agricultural lands.
>> That's right.
[2:00:50] » And that's why I I mentioned about about
new freedom. Um they were concerned
[2:00:55] about that.
county commission pointing them out to
[2:01:00] be a growth area and that's why they
turned it down.
[2:01:05] » They were really upset about that.
>> I think there was some uh some
[2:01:08] misunderstanding
about that.
[2:01:10] » Yeah. Because um they they were part of
the the group. They attended public
[2:01:15] hearings some of their elected officials
and um from what I understand what I
[2:01:20] have heard anyway um I believe there was
some misunderstanding. So, I know one of
[2:01:25] their planning commission members uh is
going to be attending their next meeting
[2:01:30] and talking about it. So, hopefully can
clear up that misunderstanding.
[2:01:33] » Yeah, they were upset. Well, again, go
home.
[2:01:39] » Nice meeting you all.
>> You very come back anytime.
[2:01:43] » I will be. Unfortunately, there's three
meetings all tonight.
[2:01:47] » You know, you had to have to decide
which one to choose and yours I hadn't
[2:01:50] been to yet.
>> So, that's why I came. So, I'm glad you
[2:01:54] made that choice. We appreciate your
proud work.
[2:01:56] » Thank you.
>> Motion to