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We discussed a few things. There were some changes that we knew definitely needed

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to be made. Um, ended up calling him later and discussing some others, um, that were,

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I guess what I would categorize as more of a major concern on my part because of

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the entry and exiting. Um, the main gate that would be used for, uh, attendees

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to come in was not wide enough for two-way traffic. And the second entrance be designated

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for emergency vehicles only. And he, he said that he would pull up part of the fence

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and widen that out, bring in either iron ore or some type of gravel to make that

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all-weather road through there for two-way vehicle traffic. Um, if that's done, that

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would improve things, but it hasn't been done to my knowledge at this time. The last

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time I saw him was yesterday. Um, also, one thing that I didn't, uh, get to discuss

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with him and You may have a plan for this, but, uh, the parking area is open field

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pasture. It was bush hogged down really short for uh a pasture. Which is good, but

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having vehicles out there in extremely dry conditions, uh, you know, there, there

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is a, a risk of fire, uh, happening out there. We would need fire extinguishers out

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there. Um, and also I've noticed on the property there's a large water tank trailer.

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I don't know if it's operational or not or if y'all, y'all use it at all. Um, that

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wouldn't take the place of fire extinguisher. It would definitely be something that,

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If it's still And operational at the time.

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But those were my main concerns out there, OK. Sheriff, I mean sheriff's office,

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yeah, Ms. Keegan, Nicky Keegan, lieutenant of the county sheriff. Um, I went out

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with Fire Marshal Hogue and we, The location our commissioner. Um, and this was on

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the 11th, correct? Yes sir. Um, My issues I guess were he didn't have um

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private security lined out yet and I'm not sure if he has yet as of today um. And

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also, you know, in, when we get these kind of permits, we look at the prior history

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of the location and what's happened there, see if we've had any problems in the past.

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Um, we have had quite a few problems here in the past, as recently as this May. With

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an unapproved mass gathering that happened and Uh You're Mr. K. Yeah, Mr. K

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was arrested because of that, um, and then we've had deadly conduct. Shots have been

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fired. Uh, disagreements with landowner and even their security. Um, and then another

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mass gathering violation. Where property owner was arrested. Uh, and I know it's

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been several years, but in 202,020, I'm sorry. Um, we had a deadly conduct where

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we had a person actually shot in the. Um, so my concerns are safety and security

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at the scene. Um And I know that Mr. McClendon had told us that this isn't the same

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kind of event that they had there before, uh, but that's, that's my concern is the

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prior history there. Um, also, you know, one of the items is to be able to get a

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hold of the promoter. And the event And again we had, we all tried to contact. Set

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up the infection. Uh, and weren't able to until this, this last Friday. And so that's

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my concern too is, are we going to be able to get a hold of him on the day,

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Um, Wilson has anything price in yet, but Med Health is here. Dolores Price with

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Med Health. I was able to get the information required as far as the sanitation part

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of it, so I really don't have any questions at this time. OK, so one of the questions

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I had, I know. There were some scratch outs on things about porta potties, numbers

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of porta potties, what's required out there. Correct, normally we go by 80. Person

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per one toilet and based on the 1000 number that he had expectations, but he did

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submitted documentation where they added more restrooms, sending information regarding

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whether they're going to have potable water and stuff like that. They won't have

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any.

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Um, we, we just kind of limit ourselves to the sanitation part of it.

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Um Do you guys, do you guys have some answers for some of these questions out there?

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Have you hired security yet? We've tried. You can pass for the permit. OK. But I

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got a guy in mind. I

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It's still So that there won't be no problem in security, OK. And then the widening,

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one of the things was the widening. Simple fix is, is they cross ties for me. They're

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just gonna come and bring them back. They're gonna wire.

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Uh, one of the questions I had, and, and this is, uh, more directed to you, Mr. Kay,

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is when we were looking, when we fill out these bass gathering permits, uh, there's

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questions and, um, one of my concerns is, is it does say that The owner of the property

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where the mass gathering is held is, is you, OK, and I don't, when we looked at deeds

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and things, it's, it's showing a lot of other names and you said it was family property.

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Well, it, in this blank it says full name of owner and an S, their owner, so we Uh,

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the property that actually where, uh, you, you said it's the horse trading is going

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on where the, where the track is that, that area, um, is that, uh, is that, do you

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own that personally? That's my father's. OK, it goes to my mother. He didn't, so,

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OK, that's what we own my father's property. OK, well that in there again, that's

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another, that's a spot that you, that when you fill out these, you need to fill out

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whomever is, you know, even if they're parking on another piece of property that's

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an ant or something, uh, it needs to list, um, everybody there. Uh, one concern I

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had was Um, it said, uh, earlier I, I took a note, uh, it said in here that you were

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doing horse training, uh, and I know it's filled out on that blank. It says top of

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gathering, so it says there's a spot for music, concert, horse, dog racing, and then

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other, and you rode horse training, check it. But then later, In here, it says something

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about parking. It says parking will be on the outside perimeters of the horse racing

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area, but it, so I don't know if that. No, we're not ready,

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If I can chime in, I, I did speak with him about this and ask, um, what horse training

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consisted of. And the way that he described it to me was horses running at the same

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time beside each other and possibly earning a trophy or whatever. It is horse racing.

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What will be going on Well racing comes in when you parameter today, we're not doing

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no parameter today. And if you, if you let's say I buy a 2 year old coach. He don't

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know nothing. He don't, I don't see him run off the track. I don't see him do it

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all. So you got to have something with him to get him used to other hearts and get.

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People, it's, uh, that's the only way you say it. You got to a car if you have a

82
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car, you. My understanding, well, I'm coming here. The, uh, the horse racing under

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the mass gathering Act, there's two sections. There's one that says if it is a horse

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race that involves pari-mutual betting, that that is not governed by the mass gathering.

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Here what you're telling us is that horse training is not horse racing, but then

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you're saying that horse training is horse racing in the application. So hang on,

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hang on. So under the mass Gathering Act, if there is any horse racing regardless

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of the bet, so if there's a bet, then it's not under, if there's a legal bet that's

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authorized under the racing Texas Racing Act, then it does not qualify as a mass

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gathering. But you are not an authorized um. Uh, horse racing track under the Texas

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Racing Act, so you cannot have er mutual betting that would qualify, that would disqualify

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you under the mass gathering Act. So therefore, it's either gonna be horse racing.

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Or there's not. Now, there's nothing that prohibits you under the Mass Gathering

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Act from doing horse racing. You can do horse racing. It's illegal to bet if you're

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not authorized to bet, but here you're saying that Mr. McClendon is saying that it's

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horse racing. Uh, I know that we've had several instances, I'm sorry, Mr. McClendon

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is saying that it's horse training. I know we've had several instances in the past

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where there actually is horse racing outside of the pair, we're not even including

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the pari-mutual betting because that doesn't apply here. Any race that involves a

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horse, whether it's a buggy or without a buggy, whether it's trotting, uh, whatever

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that race would be where two horses are competing against each other. To go a certain

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distance and whoever gets there first, that is a race and that would fall under the

103
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Mass Gathering Act which then limits the which then uh limits the number of participants

104
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that would be required to have a mass, to get a mass gathering permit. So in this

105
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instance, the fact that you may have horse racing is not necessarily a problem because

106
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you're applying for the mass gathering act and we have approved horse racing events

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before. But I do have a problem and I think there's an issue when you say in the

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um In the application, quite frankly, it would be a little misleading to say horse

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training when you are racing. That's the, that's the nature of the training is to

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race the horse. Now, if you're getting out there and you're just running one horse

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at a time and you're timing that, You can't train about that, then, so it is horse

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racing. So I think the Texas, uh, the mass gathering statute is clear that you cannot.

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Intentionally and I believe it is um

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False or misleading information in the application that's uh 57751.007 misleading

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information or omission or omission. So in this instance, You have omitted

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or you have been Best case scenario, you have omitted the fact that you are doing

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horse racing. Or worst case scenario, you presented false and misleading information

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that uh that you are Uh, and I believe I'm gonna interrupt you, Thomas. I, I believe

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that y'all were under the understanding that you couldn't horse race. Under this,

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and so you're coming in with the idea of it's horse training. And coming in with

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that. You, uh, you can horse race under this as long as there's not betting, you

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can horse race. Uh, but it's your application has. Said training, it said, uh,

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multiple different things. I think your awards were just given for, given for the,

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uh, best looking mare and, and, and trotter and those kind of things, and you may

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be given award for those sort of things, uh, but you probably were gonna give awards

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for the horses that were trained beside each other and the one that got there first,

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correct? OK, you're just trying to do the right, you're just trying to get. Do it

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the right way. My impression is from that we've lost the race kind of clue, yeah,

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the racing part, yeah, we lost the racing part. My impression was the paramedics,

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I mean, from my standpoint talking to the lawyer. When you said racing, everybody.

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And that's what's serving to do, right? That's not what that places it. Her mission

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betting with the horse racing as Mr. Wilson described, that places you in a whole

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different category, and you're not doing that. You're just, uh, the problem is now

134
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is, uh, well, there's a few problems. I, I've got concerns. I, I think I feel pretty

135
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good about the majority of men health concerns. I mean, she doesn't really have a

136
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lot of concerns. Y'all aren't feeding and doing all the things and, and, and, uh.

137
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Serving things, so that's not a, that's not a big deal, but I do have a problem with

138
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the application piece. Uh, I think y'all uh came in here and you were trying to come

139
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across and use wording, different wording to disguise what you're going out there

140
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that So I'm concerned with that. Um, I believe there is omission. I believe there

141
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was misleading, uh, involved in that. But I also have a pretty big concern because

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I've got two law enforcement agencies over here, uh, the Fire Marshal's Office and

143
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Smith County Sheriff's Office, and they answered, um, there's not a lot of confidence

144
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in there when they're concerned about what's going on in the past. They're real concerned.

145
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They wrote, I think, not in.

146
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Something where they don't feel like for sure. They normally when we're in here,

147
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they're confident and they say, you know what, I feel like this is gonna go off without

148
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it. But with the history that's here, I'm looking back in 26, 24, 22,

149
00:14:20,036 --> 00:14:26,099
21, 20, there's been multiple issues that have gone on and I'm concerned with that.

150
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Uh I would like it if, if If and when you guys come back in here, uh,

151
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It out slowly. Make sure you have the owners correct on all the properties to list

152
00:14:41,021 --> 00:14:47,069
them all because that's falsifying this application. What we own is my father. My

153
00:14:47,069 --> 00:14:52,025
father got 40 acres. That's his, right? But when you list the owner, when you list

154
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the owner, you need to list. That that your mom, whoever it was left to list and

155
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if you're if you're part of the property is somebody else, an aunt or uncle list

156
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that that you're parking on or whatever you, you see what I'm saying it needs to

157
00:15:08,012 --> 00:15:13,076
be, I know you're a family member, but it needs to be that. So, uh, with that said,

158
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um, Judge, I would, uh, would add, uh, so when you mentioned, uh, a couple of things

159
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you mentioned that food would be brought about. And but then you said no alcohol.

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Uh, would be prep. Uh, but attendees would be allowed to bring food or alcohol. You

161
00:15:32,021 --> 00:15:39,095
list it on this. So. Yeah, the issue, the issue that we run into is that,

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Uh, I think there was a statement in the fire marshal's report that the individuals

163
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who were participating would be allowed to, uh, bring their own alcohol. To the property.

164
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Or anybody showing up. Anybody showing up. Your own alcohol, correct? If if you show

165
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up and you want to bring a case of beer and your tooler, that's, you know, not prohibiting

166
00:16:02,006 --> 00:16:06,097
security guard gonna take that for, for whoever we have, uh, so y'all are prohibiting

167
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alcohol from being consumed on the.

168
00:16:11,079 --> 00:16:17,016
Because that's not what you told, I think, the sheriff's office or I just said just

169
00:16:17,016 --> 00:16:21,015
bring the food or whatever you got. You said that you can't stop them from bringing

170
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their own drinks. I really can't stop it unless the security guards, security guards

171
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could be. So, and, and that becomes a problem because under the Mass Gathering Act

172
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again it's the same reason for the, uh, horse racing. You have to meet a certain

173
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level of individuals who are under the age of 21. If 51% or more are uh younger than

174
00:16:42,057 --> 00:16:48,037
the age of 21 or you anticipate 51% or more being under the age of 21, then your

175
00:16:48,037 --> 00:16:53,036
number is lowered as well regardless of the horse racing issue. So the horse racing

176
00:16:53,036 --> 00:17:00,091
is at 100 persons, that requires a mass gathering act. I believe the um under Uh,

177
00:17:01,052 --> 00:17:08,034
21, 51% under 21, I believe that is. Um, 500 persons.

178
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That's your limit or requirement to get a mass gathering permit. So there's a couple

179
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of issues there as well with regards to the alcohol and notice about the alcohol.

180
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I would also say on the landowner issues, you're also required to have a contract

181
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with the owners of the land. So if there are multiple tracks. Within that and the

182
00:17:30,088 --> 00:17:36,000
way that it shows on uh the Smith County records is that there are at least I think

183
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:43,047
6 different tracks that all touch that um that piece of property. Where you would

184
00:17:43,047 --> 00:17:48,004
be parking, participating in the event that those individuals would also have to

185
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sign. So it's just like the contract that you guys provided, but it would just be

186
00:17:52,007 --> 00:17:59,012
every owner. Right And then the other thing is with the security piece, you do need

187
00:17:59,012 --> 00:18:04,003
to have a, when you come in to make application for this, you need to have a contract

188
00:18:04,003 --> 00:18:09,048
with them. They, they shouldn't charge you for that, that, that would be if indeed.

189
00:18:10,018 --> 00:18:14,052
We passed, you got the permit, but you'd already have that in place, so we'd know

190
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that yes indeed you're gonna have that. May I add, also, if you're allowed alcohol,

191
00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:27,000
the sanitation part of it will not, be met because that would increase the number

192
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of toilet facilities uh that are required. Um, so, just kind of know that if you

193
00:18:34,063 --> 00:18:36,052
allow alcohol that will change.

194
00:18:38,053 --> 00:18:45,077
So on the owners for the property I have two of my In his past

195
00:18:50,013 --> 00:18:54,096
We not own a property Like 50 days away in the back that nobody goes to 50 days over

196
00:18:54,096 --> 00:19:00,058
here that nobody go to, so I have to get I think it's, I, I think it's just the property

197
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that you're utilizing, correct, which would be my father's, yes, and it would be

198
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to your mother because your father passed away, right? I, I get my mother to sign

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whatever the way, well, the way the tracks are set up, it looks like that there are

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at least um.

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I counted Circle, one circle. Well, there's the one circle that's almost split in

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half. So one circle is almost split in half.

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So there's one circle that's split in half, so the top half with the barn. That's

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owned by and shows to be owned by I believe uh Sir Lester K. Is that your father?

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Oh, that's that little bitty circle that's not a track that little bitty one that

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little field, that's not the track. The track, the big track is in, in on my. Father's

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name.

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It's a little bitty one which was what uh if you go in it'd be on the right hand

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side. No, I'm talking about the big track. Now, for look, my uncle don't own that.

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Well, the Smith County records show that for Lester, for Lester K owns the top. That's,

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that's a little bitty crack. And then that, the, the big track, the only track. That

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is an appearance on Smith County's uh website which is updated, I believe it was

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last updated in 2025. would be, A racetrack. It appears to be a full

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length horse racing circle track or oval track, right. That is split between uh the

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owners. Is, uh, Bonita K. My mom. OK. All right. And then,

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But also there's some adjacent property right next to it, where the field where you

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say you're gonna be parking based on the description. That's owned by um

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Emma Butler, that's who owns, I think that's got part of some of the service. You

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got it mixed up, OK, so, so, so who's Emma? That's my aunt. OK, so your aunt, so

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your aunt would have to sign off on it, no problem, for Lester or per Lester's, uh,

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yeah, the parking, yeah, yeah, would have to sign off on it. Then Bonita, right,

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where the parking would go, and then I believe the far one is Alberta. I don't know

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if that's we don't write it down. And there's one to the south that looks like it

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might be utilized is Annie Annie Kate, Annie Kate. So, so to clear, to clear all

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that up with y'all, y'all, y'all getting that piece. It's not. It sounds complicated,

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but it's just listing all those owners on here and then getting in contract with

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each one of those is saying yes indeed I'm allowing this to go on. Yeah, let that

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happen and then the security piece, you gotta have that piece when you come and make

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application and then you've gotta, you gotta list everything fully on this so that

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these, these folks, whether NetHealth or whatever, because if alcohol is being served,

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there has to be more fortified, correct, um, and so, or alcohol is being consumed,

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consumed the way the statute says it sold, served or consumed. So it, it's, it's

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that's the reason it's all got to be just laid out there, yeah, I understand. OK,

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I understand. So today, one more thing, there is one more thing, OK, um. There's

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testing that's required if you're having horses come across state lines. You have

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to have somebody responsible for that. So just be aware it's not listed in here,

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but I would definitely make sure that you have someone who is responsible to ensure

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that the coggins are, are done correctly and appropriately. Because that could be

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an issue. I got one more question. You said on the 500 people? What do they consist

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of? Something about the 500 people with no permit. No, no, you have to have a permit

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no matter how many people you have. Even at least 100 It takes over 100 people. If

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you have 100 or more persons, you have to have a permit for horse racing for a mass

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gathering for a mass gathering, and then, then, and that's horse racing without betting.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Or greyhound racing if you're, But uh we do we do events

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several months so we just do one application or we gotta come up for every time you

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come up for every time.

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Wow. That's just what I wanted to know. Trying to put a little cone on me. I know,

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I know we, we have, we have people who do that, by the way. There are, we won't have

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to go through this if we, if you get everything corrected, we have to go through

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the map. You have to have the map every time, right? And I think once. I'll tell

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you, once you get that done one time, make you a copy, yeah, all right, OK, all right,

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so today, um, the findings that, that we've talked about and discussed, I'm denying

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this application today, um. Uh, I think we've all learned, uh, quite a bit today.

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Thank you all very much and I'm sorry I can't just push that forward. Back problems.

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3