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Good evening everybody. 6 o'clock p.m.
This is a regular business meeting of

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the Smithfield Township Board of
Supervisors. Please join me in

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allegiance.

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» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the

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republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice and for all.

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» Thank you very much. Members present
include myself, chair Jacob Pride, Vice

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Chair Robert Levenheim, supervisor
Michael Alber, project manager Julie

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Hilica, administrative coordinator
Jessica Haj, conservation recreation

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director Dr. Alex Jackson, engineer John
Trestler, and solicitor Ron Harrison.

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Announcements. Executive session was
held January 14th from 5:14 p.m. to 6:19

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p.m. regarding litigation in the M manor
back 9 matter and personnel. Likewise,

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we had one on January 22nd from 10:05
p.m. to 2:01 p.m. regarding litigation

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in the Mannor back 9 matter as well as
personnel.

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Just want to remind folks as we get into
the rest of the agenda that uh we

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establish rules for public comment from
resolution 602. So we're trying to avoid

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duplication by allowing folks to speak
further minutes during the time frame uh

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after which the board would uh
deliberate just to allow the meeting to

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be more efficient.
First order of business to the consent

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agenda which is the consideration to
approve the January 5th reorganization

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meeting minutes and the regular meeting
minutes. Approving the build pack mean

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3304,814
monthly general fund, EMS fund, act fire

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fund, capital grants fund, liquid fuels
fund, and professional aspro fund

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consideration to appoint Chris Bowers to
the environmental advisory council's

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planning commission member term ending
January 4th, 2027. Consideration to

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appoint Kaden Machowski to the
Environmental Advisory Council term

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ending January 4th, 2027. and the
consideration uh to approve the special

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event permit for custom import
performance. Do I hear a motion?

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» Motion to approve.
>> Motion by Mr. Leven. I hear a second.

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» I'll second.
>> Second, Mr. Discussion.

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» Um
on the bills, uh Sylvie, what's the

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Sylvie Brew?
>> Nalt.

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» Salt. Okay, that makes sense. Big one.
Uh that was the only one I have

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question

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and
all in favor I

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» I
okay next reports emergency services

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fire chief
Uh fire tax accounts funds $24,310

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fire tax capital purchase account
$92,11.

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Uh December EMS EMS calls 12 December uh
25 fire calls 70. Uh recently we had two

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working house fires and two working
vehicle fires. Uh total EMS calls for 25

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191. Uh 2025 total fire call 883 with a
grand total of 1,024 calls. Uh in

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January 2026, uh our large purchase uh
was $15,000 worth of repairs to our

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engine 11 up in Wooddale station for a
new foam pump and various mechanical

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issues that we had. Um received
notification that we approved for the

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2024 RS5 and 6 Office of State uh fire
commissioner EMS grant for $15,000. Uh,

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this will allow us to pay off our Lucas
device, which was a grand total of

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$19,121. So, that would be pretty clear.
Also, we received $14,487

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cents on the fire grant side to use
towards our final radio project of

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$61,000.
So, hopefully that would pay off this

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year. Uh,
I have no immediate need and no

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additional notes.
>> Thank you very much. Thank you.

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My turn.
>> Yes. Thanks, Debbie.

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» Debbie Q. First little emergency
support. I promised you last month that

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I'd come back with something a little
more uh inclusive. So, uh last year's

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calls were 3,359.
We now have five trucks. Because of the

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tax funding, we were able to purchase a
new ALS truck, a new BLS truck,

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replacing our 1992 ambulance and our
2009 ambulance. Major upgrade. Thank you

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to Smithfield Township for your help in
obtaining the $100,000 LSA grant, which

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will be a portion of the cost of our
three power load stretchers for a total

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cost of $222,000.

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We handled 31 sports and standby events,
multiple days and shifts, participated

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in five municipal events both at
Smithfield and Middle. We offered five

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classes to residents of both townships
and local organizations. We sponsored

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one paramedic through school and now he
volunteers several shifts a month.

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uh we offer in-house [clears throat]
training as well as CPR certifications.

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We served as a preceptor location for
both paramedic and EMT students and we

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have a number of students who are now
part of our career staff.

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We are the only organization within the
EMS community that has both volunteer

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and career personnel. We worked with the
Rotary Club of the Strabergs to have our

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Winona Falls station exterior painted
and the interior of our Marshall Creek

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station painted. Our volunteer hours
exceeded 2,000 plus training completed

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outside of normal shift hours. We wished
and thank Dr. Pavini who had been our

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medical director since 1992
a happy retirement. And we now have Dr.

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Haskins as our primary and Dr. Kennedy
as our secondary. And we're pleased to

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have had the organization complete
lensure and having reached 60 years of

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service. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

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» Listeners reporting.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Since uh the last

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report, I had worked on the land
development improvement agreements for

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the Rockco collision
service land development plan along with

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the Smithfield Sewer Authority plan
which will be on the agenda for later

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discussion.
I also prepared the brief in the Vgap

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appeal where they appealed with the
denial of the preliminary plan.

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There are two matters pending there. One
deals with the

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well appeal this deals with the uh
the denial of the plan by the

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supervisor. So I prepare our supporting
brief. I also worked on the mountain

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manner stipulation which will be
discussed later.

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I also had an opportunity to review the
materials from Mr. Trestler regarding

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high density residential development
option and then just miscellaneous items

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but those were the major ones.
>> Perfect.

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» Okay. Uh engineers report J.
>> Thank you Jacob. Uh since the last

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meeting uh I've had some discussions
with PennDOT regarding

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uh posting weight limit on road bridge.
Their position is that uh the repairs

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brought it back to where it was and they
were recommending the three time weight

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limit. Uh I don't know if we can do
anything to bump that or not. Uh I'm

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still in discussion with them.
Uh we reviewed and issued a review

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letter for ThreePoint Garden Road on
their new minor subdivision.

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We did work with Mr. Aerosaced out on
the high the outline I should say of a

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high density residential ordinance to be
permitted as a standalone

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uh use uh in the ED zone for the board
to consider and discuss.

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And I also had a meeting with Mr.
Depetrus and his engineer

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regarding his proposal for data centers
within the gateway project.

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That's all that I have to report unless
there's any questions.

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Thank you very much. July manage
support.

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» Sure. Um, we wrapped up all the 2025
rate command requests in for that year.

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We had 118 submit to the township,
approximately 168 hours of staff time.

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So far in 2026, we've received eight uh
two of which are still outstanding. Time

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spent on those has accumulated to be 6.5
hours. Uh on a good note on the grant

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end of things, um we do have $33,000 on
the way from an act 101 section 902

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reimbursement and we unfortunately
received word today that neither Shauny

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Fire Company or Delaware Water Gap were
funded through the DC&R uh volunteer

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fire assistance grant. Um so no dice
there, but we'll keep

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» Thank you.
Okay, I don't see Tara Maznati, so

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nothing on I80 611
on the EAC. Alex, anything you want to

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present?
Um, I know we have an agenda item later

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on that uh, you know, we'll we'll
discuss, but you want to give an over

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now, that's fine, too.
>> Yes, Mr. Chairman, the EAC had their

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reorganization reorganization meeting on
January 20th. Uh Mitch who's here with

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us this evening was elected as vice
chair. Recording secretary say the same.

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The EAC also said their meetings
to have first Monday of the month at 7

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p.m. as needed and then the third
Tuesday of the month at 7 p.m. for the

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regular meeting. And I just want to
thank Mitch and Todd for being here

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today and anybody else that I could
recognize. And Katie, congratulations.

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» Thank you.
>> Okay. Thanks, Alex.

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Supervisor's comments, anything?
>> No,

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» nothing wrong.
>> Okay. I just want to thank the DPW for

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all their work during the most recent in
a snow apocalypse. We had some of the

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best roads in the county as a result of,
you know, that chaos and our crew did a

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great job working, you know, more than a
day's work. So,

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» very true.
>> Great question on that. 209. Do we do

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that as a part as a contractual if it's
still

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» pen dot? Um
>> one area that there's some pretty big

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issues. Turning lanes are not good and
>> that is correct. Uh our crew is

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prioritizing a couple of high priority
intersections and they are handling some

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of the lines on that above the township
roads to try and get them faster.

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» We're allowed we're allowed to do that.
Okay. [clears throat]

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» Connected to our road. We do have a
little bit of leeway to pull. So because

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there is so much it is taking time and
our crews have been working since

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Tuesday to do that.
>> Yep. Great. And they're doing a great

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job.
>> Awesome.

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» Okay. Uh data center decommissioning
criteria. I know there's also some

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information in there. Um beyond
clarifying and decommissioning but also

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a sound and noise. So Alex uh you're
here to discuss that with us and then

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tell us the the next step. Sure. I guess
I'll get a little longer

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chairman. So, just as a recap for the
board, so the supervisors adopt an

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update to the township zoning ordinance
criteria for data centers, disaster

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recovery facilities, and data centers
accessory use. Um, that was back in

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2025. And then on November 13th, the
township planning commission discussed

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revisions. The edits discussed included
revisions to the noise criteria and

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decommissioning criteria.
And during those meetings, your planning

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commission went over in great detail all
the county planning commission

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recommendations
um on your re on the data center

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ordinance. I believe you adopted your
ordinance in in October if I'm not

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mistaken. So I just want to emphasize to
the board that your planning commission

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went and engineer and solicitor role
there during that discussion and this

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that this whole discussion was quite
detailed and quite elaborate. So that

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took place. I believe that was part of,
you know, what the board had discussed

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back then when you adopted it. And then
on December 11th, uh, 2025, the township

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planning commission again discussed
provisions, more specifically devising

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the decommissioning language again
revising the noise criteria. After

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discussing Pen Futures sound provision
update which was provided to the

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supervisors and also distributed to the
planning commission everybody there were

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some um edits um which basically now
includes narrow band frequency analysis

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and deleted the outdated octave band
table um from the prior version which

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was previously carried over from the old
Smith the attention data center

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criteria. So those edits were
memorialized in the draft that you see

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and are now being presented to the board
for um for your discussion.

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» Is the intention to have the planning
commission review it at their next

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meeting?
>> That's that's up to the board. If you

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know you could send it to the county
>> for a formal review and we're going to

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send it back to your um planning
commission. It's up to the board. I

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» think it makes sense to trigger both
reviews at the same time, but defer to

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point Robert if they have any other
thoughts. I mean it's pretty well gone

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out and the next logical step.

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» Yeah, I've got a question. So I mean I
know we already had decommissioning in

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the original ordinance. So this is
effectively just giving us a little bit

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more detail
giving a bit of timeline.

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Um,
so I'm having trouble fully realizing

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what has changed from what is in the
ordinance.

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» That's a good question, Supervisor
Albear. So on the second page,

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uh, paragraph, that last sentence, it
says the decommissioning agreement shall

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include a bond or letter of credit that
demonstrates adequate financing is in

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place, but decommissioning is the
primary change to that because we talked

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about financing, so it's just a letter,
I guess. Right.

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» It's a, you know,
and then the in the noise sound and

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noise. Um, I did look at some of the
there were some text revisions to

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I guess in the preliminary study, it's
no longer required as part of

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conditional use. Um, but now you would
need an interimm sound study as well. So

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not having to do it during condition
initial use is um a little more

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permissive for the developer, but having
the interim sound study is a little bit

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more restrictive for the community. It's
also worth noting to the board that

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reference to noise and nuisance isn't in
this. You could put that in here if you

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so please that was in that's in your
current ordinance. That's up to the

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board up to you know TNM up to you guys
what you recommend on that. My my one

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concern with the sound noise section as
I can tell

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there isn't an indication of where the
decibel level is measured. I know our

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sound ordinance is fairly clear that
it's on the property of the individual

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that is concerned with the the the sound
but it's not so is this on the edge of

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the property. Is this as we know sound
very relevant where it's measured

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» here
on the property line.

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» Where does it say that?

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» Two 23 through paragraph number one.

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» Yeah.
>> Why am I not able to read that? Can I

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get an old version here?
>> No.

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» Normal hours, maximum daytime, all day
Sunday, decel max on the property line

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use. Okay.

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» So, I will just say I mean that is
different from a restrictive. It's more

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restrictive than our sound ordinance.
So, I guess that's fine. You know, sound

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ordinance
is on the property line of affected

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property.
um which in this case probably end up

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being the same honestly but
>> okay

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» all right it's there thank you sorry I
missed it

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» fine
Robert anything is there

213
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:47,520
» oh
I would think it's in order that I'll

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00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:52,640
entertain a motion to trigger both
planning commission the review draft

215
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:57,840
ordinance number two
>> motion I'll second a motion

216
00:22:54,080 --> 00:23:01,600
» motion by Mr. 11 second Mr. Ro there.
Any discussion?

217
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:05,280
» Uh clarification question for me. Are
you triggering your reviews and do you

218
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,400
want something scheduled or do you want
to wait until you have review?

219
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:12,559
» I'd rather wait till we have reviews.
>> Understood. Thank you.

220
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:18,000
» If that's the consensus of the
All right. Go ahead, Joel. Um I was just

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wondering with the data centers, has any
um consideration been given to like

222
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other areas where they've had data
centers installed and seeing what their

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00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:32,400
experience has been um since they've
been installed and if they're having

224
00:23:29,919 --> 00:23:37,760
complications because there there are
data centers that have been installed

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00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:43,679
throughout the US and um there that
would be a really good way of doing

226
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:47,520
that. Has anyone researched that?
Yeah, if you want to detail a bit of the

227
00:23:46,159 --> 00:23:53,200
research that you've done, that's
essentially what we what went into

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00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:57,600
drafting the data center ordinance. We
>> the experience other communities are

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having now that they're in place like
any other.

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» Just want a reminder, the data center
ordinance is already in place. That was

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done in October last year and it is one
of the most restrictive data ordinances

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00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:16,400
that we were able to review. Um, so this
is just one of the things that happened

233
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:20,400
on that day was we realized there
weren't there wasn't really enough teeth

234
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:23,760
in the decommissioning bit, but we
didn't want to stall getting the

235
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:28,480
ordinance in place. So, we decided to
vote on it and that we would fix it at a

236
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:32,320
later time to just clarify the teeth on
the decommissioning, which basically

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00:24:29,919 --> 00:24:37,679
says that's the line that highlights
that there needs to be um a letter of

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00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:44,080
credit demonstrating adequate financing.
So that's really what today is about as

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00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:48,640
well as the amendment to the noise.
>> Yeah, I got Yeah, I just like as a

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00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:52,480
recommendation definitely look into what
is happening in other areas where these

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00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,880
status centers are point and just I know
that's a separate thing. So I got what

242
00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:59,120
you're saying.
>> Thanks very

243
00:24:57,279 --> 00:25:03,200
» Thank you.
All in favor?

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00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:08,400
» I
um discussion on housing economic

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00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:13,279
development residential zone. John or
Robert, I don't know who wants to start.

246
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:20,320
At least maybe John you could be tell
what you drafted for us to consider. Uh

247
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:24,799
there's been you know discussion over
several months

248
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:33,200
uh
how to address probably a twoprong

249
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:39,200
and one is to create affordable housing
and two how to get [clears throat] more

250
00:25:35,919 --> 00:25:42,720
uh use out of our economic development
district.

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00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:49,360
And
the really the only way to get more

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00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:55,919
affordable housing in today's market
saying that will always be the case but

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00:25:51,200 --> 00:26:01,679
is to have a high density component. Um
the higher the density the more units

254
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:09,200
going to build for for the dollar. Uh
and that basically means three four or

255
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:11,520
five story buildings are necessary.
uh

256
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:18,720
» but only in our economic developments
zone which the three major roads

257
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:26,880
» right so we we looked at that and so I
drafted an outline of I also looked at

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00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:33,360
other ordinances where uh they are they
have been successfully incorporated one

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00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:39,679
being township which has several similar
projects I looked at the criteria for

260
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:44,320
theirs um I also looked at proposals
that are being proposed in Smithfield

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00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:52,880
Township.
And uh what we came up with is

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00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:59,520
uh to take advantage of this, we believe
a developer should propose a minimum

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00:26:55,679 --> 00:27:08,799
density of 12 delling 12 dwelling units
acre. Uh and that could go up to 12 20

264
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:13,840
dwelling units proposed acre. uh if he's
strictly going to do a residential

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00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,960
uh building and he must have public
flatter and public sewer. I make that

266
00:27:15,919 --> 00:27:20,640
rose acreage.
>> Gross acreage. Yes.

267
00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:24,799
» Gets too complicated.
>> Still must preserve

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00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:29,120
anything that is required to be
preserved be wetlands, steep slopes,

269
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:34,640
whatever zoning war is preserves. But
for the simplicity of calculation, it's

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00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,000
it's easier just to work off of gross
acreage.

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00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,360
And that's how and again that's how Beth
Township does it as well.

272
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:48,480
» Gross acreage is essentially what is
left to be usable. No,

273
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:50,320
» it is your if you have five acres uh you
have a 5 acre track,

274
00:27:49,919 --> 00:27:54,720
» right?
>> Let's say you have one acre of wetlands

275
00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:56,399
and a half an acre of steep slopes which
have to be preserved,

276
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,919
» right?
>> That would mean your net acreage is

277
00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:03,120
three and a half acres.
>> Oh, okay.

278
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:11,039
» Your gross acreage is five acres.
>> Okay. So if we per So if a builder was

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00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:16,159
going to put in the minimum 12 units uh
for gross acre on that particular site,

280
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:18,000
he'd have to build a minimum of 60
units.

281
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:20,799
» Yeah.
>> If he couldn't put them in, then the

282
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,399
site doesn't work.
>> That's not the township's problem. It

283
00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:29,679
just doesn't work.
But if he has a nice [snorts]

284
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:35,760
10acre site that has very few
restrictions and he wants to go with

285
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:40,880
that 12, then he could put in 120 units.
Uh we're if he's doing res strictly

286
00:28:38,399 --> 00:28:46,720
residential only, which would be
permitted if this use is adopted,

287
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:55,120
he's got a maximum height limit of four
stories for 50 ft. Mhm.

288
00:28:50,399 --> 00:28:58,640
» somewhat as an incentive to
give some commercial along with this

289
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:03,440
development
which he uped the density to 25 units

290
00:29:01,679 --> 00:29:10,159
per acre.
Uh and he's allowed to go to five

291
00:29:06,399 --> 00:29:15,520
stories or 60 ft if he provides a
commercial component equal to the floor

292
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:21,440
area of one of those buildings or 20% of
the residential floor area. Mhm.

293
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:25,559
» Well, so we had another example. I don't
know if it made any particular

294
00:29:29,919 --> 00:29:37,919
go with our parking requirements or the
developer can submit something that she

295
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:43,760
feels is um for
>> demand based.

296
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:47,440
» Yeah. of of what he wants to build.
And oh there's another thing we we did.

297
00:29:45,679 --> 00:29:55,679
We said
um this must be uh in an area certified

298
00:29:54,159 --> 00:30:01,120
tour.
And the reason we did that is because uh

299
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:06,159
it pretty much restricts where you can
do this to where we want it, which is to

300
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:11,919
say this going independence and Brown
Street and uh a piece of Milford road

301
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:18,480
that goes
airport from from the east going to the

302
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:24,320
airport. But on 209, uh it only goes to
Gateway, which is

303
00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:28,600
um you know a major development plan
anyway. So it doesn't really matter

304
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:41,039
and I think uh if if we if we accept and
we're patiently talking about it in some

305
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:48,559
further uh point we should probably look
at u the major mixed juice development

306
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:52,240
just to tweak things so there's a
continuity between one and the other.

307
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:55,840
It's I read through it. It's not It's
not that much, but there's a few things

308
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,799
we should probably just change,
>> right?

309
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,679
» We can we can wait on that one.
>> Oh, yeah. I mean, I think naturally

310
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,799
there are some things there that are
more permissive, but some things that

311
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:11,279
are meant to be an incentive end up
being more restrictive.

312
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:16,880
Our our uh our goal here is to try to
get something going or passed so that we

313
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:22,880
can uh which we're not in danger of
losing our multimotal grant on Franklin

314
00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:27,760
Road which I heard just got a hop on
that what the next last couple of days

315
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:34,799
right so that's moving along but it
>> you didn't get the HOP but you did get

316
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:39,679
acceptance of the of the study uh which
does give the developer the green light

317
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:43,600
to go ahead and prepare his hop plans in
accordance with that study.

318
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:48,240
» Thanks for that, K.
May I just want to highlight a comment

319
00:31:45,919 --> 00:31:52,960
I've made at the last I think two
meetings where we've discussed this

320
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:57,600
which is I'm all for
uh making it possible to have this

321
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:03,080
highdensity
u residential in the township and

322
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,080
especing

323
00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:10,640
an area to something that is more akin
to an um EDR um economic district with

324
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:18,720
residential.
Um, but I'm not a fan of amending our

325
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:23,840
current ED so that it allows potentially
anywhere

326
00:32:20,399 --> 00:32:29,440
um for exclusively residential and the
the reason being the purpose this was a

327
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:36,159
B1 B2 zone
that was converted to this ED zone and

328
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:40,559
residential was added specifically for
the purpose of incentivizing commercial.

329
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,760
So, if we're getting to a point where
the idea is to have no commercial on

330
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:51,600
that property, in my opinion, that
completely defeats the purpose of the ED

331
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:57,760
zone. Um,
>> Michael, so remember we're saying it

332
00:32:54,799 --> 00:33:01,840
must be served by sewer and water, which
>> and another item on this agenda is

333
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,519
expansion of the sewer and water all the
way down 209,

334
00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:08,080
» right?
>> Which we can worry about amending this

335
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,240
later. What we're trying to do is do
something now,

336
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:14,080
» but I'm not going to I don't want to
amend the ordinance for one developer

337
00:33:12,159 --> 00:33:16,640
and then go around and and change it
back. That's not that's spots only.

338
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:23,039
That's
>> this is what John and I came up with. If

339
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:31,519
we if we uh incentivize the uh current
ED section 308, let's say in this way,

340
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:39,200
um it's relatively easy to do if we're
talking about a new zone. We talked

341
00:33:33,679 --> 00:33:43,840
about an R3 zone or modified EDR zone.
Uh, it's a long process.

342
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:48,960
» Well, why can't it just be exactly the
modification you'd mentioned, but limit

343
00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:54,399
that to a new zone?
>> Well, I I'll defer to John then. I don't

344
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:58,559
know.
Well, and I may even defer to Ron, but

345
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:05,679
my experience has been that a text
amendment uh will go quicker than

346
00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:08,480
creating a new plan and a whole new
zone.

347
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:11,919
» You post the properties and do mailed
notice and all that.

348
00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:14,879
» But I may be wrong on that, Ron. I don't
know what your experience is.

349
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:19,040
» Well, a zoning amendment would go
quicker.

350
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:23,760
advertised twice, once for two weeks,
and uh

351
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:29,119
and then gets reviewed by the planning
commission here, the planning commission

352
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:33,919
in Monroe County, and then it's ready to
vote. You don't have to do a whole lot

353
00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:38,159
of hoops and etc. If you were looking at
I'm looking at your amendment here, this

354
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:44,399
was just a zoning amendment.
It's tough because I I see the there's a

355
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:48,639
couple of small properties that want to
do

356
00:34:46,399 --> 00:34:53,839
something akin to the probably not high
development or high sorry high density,

357
00:34:51,599 --> 00:34:58,720
but I've heard about people that have
properties that they want to do, you

358
00:34:55,839 --> 00:35:02,079
know, six units on a second floor and
have the first floor be something else

359
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:08,000
that's permitted. That's [clears throat]
still tough because they need to utilize

360
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:13,040
all of the ground floor for bed use
minus any incidental things like cluster

361
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:19,599
boxes and whatnot. So, I'd like to see
something that that fits those in too.

362
00:35:17,839 --> 00:35:23,680
I also share the concern that we don't
want the whole EV zone to be this, but I

363
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:28,560
I think
probably a couple of riders attached

364
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:33,200
onto this
more sighting standards would make it

365
00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:38,079
easier
um more digestible. Otherwise, you when

366
00:35:35,839 --> 00:35:42,079
you're talking about new zone, you do
have to pick out where exactly you want

367
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:46,640
it to be. And I think that's where the
spot zoning concern really gets strong

368
00:35:44,079 --> 00:35:54,400
unless you do wide swats like we had at
the last uh meeting was mostly 447 that

369
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:58,560
corridor. I mean, are you allowed to
have in your zone

370
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:04,880
um
or sort of Yeah, I guess in a zone or in

371
00:36:01,599 --> 00:36:08,320
your zoning ordinance stipulations that
a certain covenant is exclusive to a

372
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:12,240
corridor because I think everyone
generally agrees that we're talking

373
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:17,680
about 447 makes sense for 447 to have
this sort of option, but don't don't

374
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:22,240
really want to see it on. Well, you I
think the easiest way to handle that is

375
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:28,560
to if you don't want to create a new
zone, you create an overlay, right, for

376
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:34,240
this criteria for the 447 corridor and
Brown Street or whatever else you want

377
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:41,359
to put. I would like to see if we were
to take that route.

378
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:45,520
I would like to see the property that
sort of already has it like behind

379
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:51,040
Smithfield Gateway is I I don't remember
if it's zoned ED or not, but the Shauny

380
00:36:49,359 --> 00:36:54,560
Senior Living, I forget exactly what
it's called. I don't remember if that's

381
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:59,359
ED and I know the property was directly
adjacent to it. Not necessarily all

382
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:04,400
owned by Gateway, but some others. I'd
like to see that included

383
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,599
just because I think it makes sense at
least on the rear portions. You know,

384
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:13,359
where it's street frontage, I don't
think you're going to get it. But

385
00:37:11,119 --> 00:37:17,200
I don't mind the overlay approach
because I think it's a balance. I don't

386
00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:22,880
know how an overlay works though in
terms of procedure. Do you still post

387
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,960
uh physically the properties that would
be in an overlay?

388
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:31,760
» You're talking about the establishment
overlay. Yeah,

389
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:37,440
» I would post the law really isn't clear
in that regard, but in order to be safe,

390
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:41,760
I would post
and notify the property owners as you

391
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,400
would with a with a map chase, if you
would.

392
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:48,160
» It allows you to sort of have the best
of both.

393
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,040
» You're informing neighbors, which I
think is appropriate.

394
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:56,880
» Yeah. So, we're we're pretty much
agreed, I would say, uh, Independence

395
00:37:53,440 --> 00:38:03,760
Road and Brown Street. Um, I'm looking
at a piece of um, Milford Road and

396
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:09,520
wondering if at least especially as far
as sewer goes now if that would be a

397
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:14,720
candidate for it only because
nothing else has worked.

398
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:19,359
» Well, there's what I the one gentleman
Jonathan Weber came to one meeting at

399
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:23,760
the beginning.
>> What's that? If the one wants to build a

400
00:38:21,359 --> 00:38:27,359
lowcost house or
>> well he wanted to build like six units.

401
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:34,800
» Oh no different.
>> No near Lake Ohio close encounters

402
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:39,200
building. He wants to tear that down and
develop straight residential there. It's

403
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:42,560
a very fairly small parcel. I mean it's
it certainly doesn't hit the five acres

404
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,880
but I know that there are other types
that are

405
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:49,200
» is that the massage parlor?
>> Yes.

406
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:54,800
I I'd like to see improvement, you know,
in that realm, uh, too. Um, but maybe

407
00:38:52,800 --> 00:39:00,160
that's a different solution than this. I
I at least think that we can

408
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:05,920
generally agree on the framework of an
overlay to sort of handpick more without

409
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:09,520
necessarily
overlays can be more restrictive too if

410
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:16,400
I'm not mistaken, right? They're not
necessarily all permissive like we

411
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:23,760
wouldn't want uh highintensity
uh commercial use um in a place that we

412
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:28,880
kind of anticipate
residential. I I I know that's dictated

413
00:39:25,839 --> 00:39:33,040
kind of by acreage and setback limits
too.

414
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:38,000
No, but I also remember if there's
residential, there's a reason for uh

415
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:42,880
commercial that doesn't exist right now,
especially small businesses.

416
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:48,960
» I really like the maximum density option
that's you know the that talks about um

417
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:56,560
you know incent that kind of says that
you can incentivize your residential if

418
00:39:51,599 --> 00:40:00,000
you had the commercial uh component. Um,
but it says that it may be on the first

419
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:04,160
floor predominantly residential building
or somewhere else on the lot. I assume

420
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:09,280
that I that could be interpreted to mean
I build a let's say like a a drive-thru

421
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:13,440
Starbucks now is is a thing that we're
starting to see pop up if you were to

422
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,240
you could concentrate your commercial in
one of those.

423
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:21,280
» Yeah. Thought
>> use like that. I mean there may be you

424
00:40:19,359 --> 00:40:26,960
know there could be attractive land or
the developer may want to just keep a

425
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:32,320
residential building separate from this
commercial commercial aspect and right

426
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:35,760
» want to give them flexibility that's all
>> and I think the devil's in the details

427
00:40:33,839 --> 00:40:40,000
and if this the idea of this discussion
is to sort of say let's draft something

428
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:45,359
and see what it looks like I mean in
order to move this al along I'm fine

429
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:51,040
with that I'm not going to say that I'm
100%

430
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:56,640
I guess and Michael I I agree with you
preserving um for instance 2019 in the

431
00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:00,240
way we have it now in EU because that's
that's where we're probably going to see

432
00:40:58,079 --> 00:41:04,640
a lot of hopefully a lot of growth once
the sewer comes is with commercial

433
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:08,960
buildings. Well, and I also I can
appreciate that

434
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:15,680
typically, not exclusively, but you
might see if if you've got commercial

435
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:21,680
right next to residential, which a lot
of this section is. I mean, I I I think

436
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:26,800
some of the homeowners in the
residential area might prefer a slightly

437
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:32,880
denser residential to then a Waw Wa or,
you know, or a data center, right? um

438
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:37,359
or something very commercial, it's sort
of a a transition. R2s are often

439
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:41,359
transitions, right? So, this is sort of
that and I think in that sense it makes

440
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:45,359
sense along that corridor. Um so, again,
I'm happy to see what the ordinance

441
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,280
change would look like.
>> Yeah.

442
00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:52,640
» Um and that at that point, you know,
public can dig into the details and we

443
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:59,680
can have a hearing and decide if it's
going forward or not. We would also be

444
00:41:54,319 --> 00:42:05,520
able to have at this stage a map of
the theoretically eligible parcels so we

445
00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:09,280
can kind of decide whether or not we
would want to go. I mean, I have a

446
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:14,400
feeling it's a huge amount and I don't
want it to be as huge as it probably is

447
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:20,800
right now, but I think that the general
direction on that makes a lot of sense.

448
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:26,400
Well, and if we're doing the overlay and
then neighbors are informed and and you

449
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:31,040
know have an opportunity to provide
their input, that's that's what matters,

450
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:35,599
I think, is making sure that the
everyone that's in this area and they're

451
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,359
joining can adjacent can provide their
input.

452
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:43,119
» Yeah.
>> Well, well, I think we should proceed

453
00:42:39,839 --> 00:42:49,040
with some haste here only because it is
coming up and that's when our multimodal

454
00:42:45,839 --> 00:42:55,200
grant that we already have expired.
I I assume we can extend it if we show

455
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:57,760
some progress, but we've got it assumpt
along the road.

456
00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:01,839
» Yeah.
>> Right.

457
00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:07,520
» Well, I think I I think the progress
would be

458
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:12,079
submission of plans
depend

459
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:17,599
or an HOP. I think that would that would
certainly satisfy the progress, but

460
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:23,520
you're going to have to satisfy the
developer that you're moving forward. So

461
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:29,280
that I I think people spend that money
to prepare those plans and I think the

462
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:33,280
developers um as as a partner on the H
on the multi.

463
00:43:32,170 --> 00:43:37,680
[clears throat]
So anyway,

464
00:43:34,319 --> 00:43:42,880
» so just so I'm clear, where are we going
to extend this over over like

465
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:47,839
Independence Road, Brown Street? Are we
going up Milford Road at all?

466
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:50,640
I would like to see the properties and
and maybe this requires some

467
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:55,599
coordination with the planning the
county planning commission, but I'd like

468
00:43:52,720 --> 00:44:00,960
to see what parcels
exactly are eligible in terms of,

469
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:04,960
you know, five gross acres and being
served by Central Sewer and Water

470
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:11,440
because I I realize that that's not just
um public, you know, entities. Daniel,

471
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:15,839
I don't know of any Shaunie off the top
of my head that that have both

472
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:21,000
theoretically some in that area that
might be served by Manuel Min.

473
00:44:21,359 --> 00:44:27,599
» Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm
wondering. I don't know. I just want to

474
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:33,359
see exactly how how farreaching it is.
If it's smaller, then I think, you know,

475
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:38,079
I I'm more amenable to to to the
direction. I really like the

476
00:44:35,359 --> 00:44:42,480
incentivizing of the commercial. It it
makes more sense I think frankly than

477
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:49,359
what we have right now. And I think the
incentivized option which has really

478
00:44:46,079 --> 00:44:56,880
complex math and tries to get people to
to there's no definition of what

479
00:44:53,280 --> 00:45:03,200
suitable means in terms of how to uh
transfer your gross commercial space.

480
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:08,720
So, I think that if we can get a map and
I guess a more fleshed out draft based

481
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:16,240
on this, I think that would be good. And
I I would like to think that for our

482
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:22,640
February uh 18th work session that we
could potentially spend time on that so

483
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:27,440
we can uh leave the rest of our meetings
to hopefully be getting some other other

484
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:35,280
tasks done. I I I can try to get you
something in advance of that.

485
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:40,000
» Does that sound Does that make sense?
>> Okay.

486
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:46,400
» I'm just wondering exactly the overlay
area. What were you talking about?

487
00:45:43,599 --> 00:45:51,040
» We're talking about an overlay to
basically highlight certain parcels that

488
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:56,079
we think make sense for
>> eligibility to vote.

489
00:45:54,240 --> 00:46:00,800
It it could be anything. Right now, we
don't we don't know everything because

490
00:45:58,319 --> 00:46:05,520
we're talking specifically about uh
>> No, I was I was just

491
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:12,960
» Yeah. No, the idea of an overlay is it
generally adds or subtracts some sort of

492
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:17,760
character from a particular zone. So an
overlay is different than changing the

493
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:21,599
zone because you can generally still do
everything that's already in that zone,

494
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:27,280
but you allow some additional incentive
or some additional uh type of

495
00:46:24,319 --> 00:46:32,000
development is the thought. So rather
than change or create a new zone at

496
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:37,440
least in the interim, we want to see
what properties would meet the five

497
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:42,800
gross acres and served by central water
and sewer. So that's our next step. And

498
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:46,720
then on our February 18th meeting, we'll
be able to discuss that more at length

499
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:51,292
so that we can [clears throat]
kind of move along the other projects

500
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:56,880
that we're
[clears throat]

501
00:46:51,839 --> 00:47:02,480
put the over probably for Ron. U if this
moves forward right, uh does this stop

502
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:07,040
anyone from having presidents to do it
someplace else?

503
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:10,319
So if you allow this,
>> someone decides they want to do the same

504
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:13,599
thing somebody else, you say no. And
they go back and say, "You did it here.

505
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:19,839
Why can't I do it here?"
>> No. A request for a zoning amendment,

506
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:24,240
which just would be it's a it's a
legislative matter. It's something that

507
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:31,680
can [clears throat] can be requested,
but the supervisors can deny it without

508
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:36,079
any appeal or without any uh retribution
for it. Now there are certain type of

509
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:40,800
zoning amendments. A municipal curative
amendment or a landowner curative

510
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:46,079
amendment that's different. Final zoning
amendment uh is just a legislative act

511
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:49,359
and the supervisors can say we're not
going to do it here but we did it here

512
00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:52,359
and that's too bad.
>> Okay.

513
00:47:53,920 --> 00:48:00,560
Mitch,
>> I had raised I think several points at

514
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,640
the last meeting relative to high
density housing.

515
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:08,560
» Sure.
>> And um I'm curious as to whether or not

516
00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:14,480
you've given any consideration
to those points and what your response

517
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:19,440
might be. I don't think anyone's
prepared to give a response today. But I

518
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:22,960
I think the intention is to have
something that's more than just a

519
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:26,960
nebulous idea before we can address
that. And I think for the February 18th

520
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:31,760
meeting, we'll hopefully be able to sit
down to what we think the answers to

521
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:38,319
that will be. Well, I think the basic
question is before you do a lot of work

522
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:44,880
on promoting and incenting
highdensity housing on Smithfield

523
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:51,040
Township, the question is why? Why do
you want to pursue this and what are the

524
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:54,640
benefits to the township and the
residents?

525
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:58,480
» I can appreciate that when we'll
certainly get into that, but I I think

526
00:48:56,240 --> 00:49:02,800
we have already maybe not to your
satisfaction, but

527
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:06,240
We know why we need more housing. There
are people that already live here that

528
00:49:04,319 --> 00:49:11,040
don't live in good enough conditions.
They want to to stay here and there's no

529
00:49:09,119 --> 00:49:15,200
room to downsize for anyone that wants
to downsize. There's no room for

530
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:18,880
anybody, you know, even young
professionals that live in the area to

531
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:23,040
to be able to stick around. It's it's
difficult. There's a lot of different

532
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:27,680
reasons, but in terms of the ordinance,
we're not going to be uh you know, as

533
00:49:25,839 --> 00:49:34,079
direct in, you know, this housing is for
this type. I think that we want to be uh

534
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:40,960
broader than that. But we'll get into
why and how more in detail at at the

535
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:45,599
work session when we have more than a
concept because right now this is a

536
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:50,559
concept that we've only let sit. Don't
know exactly where it's applicable for

537
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:54,960
you know two hours ago we might have got
that this updated version. So I think

538
00:49:52,880 --> 00:50:01,440
our intention is to dedicate you know a
couple hours on the 18th to deciphering

539
00:49:59,119 --> 00:50:07,119
exactly that where we go from here. I
don't know Mitch I mean I think you

540
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:10,240
probably for the last 10 years there's
been developers coming in here. I'm not

541
00:50:09,359 --> 00:50:14,400
saying we're doing everything for
developers but telling us that the need

542
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:19,280
and what they're what people are looking
for is higher. they're looking for some

543
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:25,839
apartments and that more younger people
are not don't want single family homes

544
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:30,240
necessarily and so there is a need for
that to some degree but I also agree we

545
00:50:28,319 --> 00:50:34,960
don't want it everywhere
>> um it needs to be limited and then the

546
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:40,079
last thing I'll just say is I think this
also looms into your your argument which

547
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:43,200
I think is a valid one that at some
point it would be nice to have an

548
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:48,640
updated
um strategic plan or updated plan. I

549
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:52,319
mean, one thing that I I know I said
this once before on the planning

550
00:50:49,839 --> 00:50:58,079
commission, which is that I have a
challenge with these township specific

551
00:50:55,280 --> 00:51:02,079
plans, and the reason being you can talk
about, well, I don't want it to be busy

552
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:08,559
on 209. Why don't we have it like it
used to be in like a single two-lane

553
00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:13,440
road? The challenge is 95% of the
traffic on that road is coming from one

554
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:17,359
township and going to another township.
And we're in the middle. They're going

555
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:24,319
over, they're driving up to Bush.
They're going further away. It It's hard

556
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:29,599
to do a plan in isolation um of your
neighbors. Um I'm a big proponent of

557
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:33,200
coordinated plans with Middle Smithfield
with with with Smithville. I would love

558
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:38,160
to see that happen. That's why I do
think that the Monroe County um at a

559
00:51:35,599 --> 00:51:43,119
countywide plan is probably a better
place for us to look at when we look at

560
00:51:39,839 --> 00:51:48,319
strategic direction. Um, so I I would
hope I actually do hope that in the next

561
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:51,920
year or two um we do do a Smithfield
Township plan, but I don't think it

562
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:56,800
should be this deep deep comprehensive
thing because it frankly is just

563
00:51:54,000 --> 00:52:00,480
unrealistic to think that you can set
certain rules specifically for your

564
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:04,960
township without thinking about what's
going on in neighboring townships and

565
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:10,160
not knowing that they're going to change
and you have to sort of change with

566
00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:14,720
them. Does that does that make sense? I
guess I want to say we also need to look

567
00:52:11,839 --> 00:52:18,240
at the county level planning um to think
about what is happening countywide. What

568
00:52:17,119 --> 00:52:24,079
are the changes that are happening
countywide whether we like them or not?

569
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:31,040
Um and make sure we adapt in a positive
way that allows us to keep our rural

570
00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:37,880
character while also um being cognizant
of the realities of what's going on in

571
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,880
neighboring townships and all around us.

572
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:49,359
And uh just speaking to the question of
high density um assuming there is a

573
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:54,000
pressure for more housing here, I think
all of us would rather see it in high

574
00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:59,280
density along our corridors rather than
spread out around the township and

575
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:05,440
taking more and more open space and
making it into housing. Uh I I

576
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:09,440
personally would rather see no more
single family houses built around here.

577
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:15,280
I think the only way we're going to
preserve open space is to stop that by

578
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:20,960
offering another incentive. And anybody
wants to see this, this is the last

579
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:26,720
couple of days in Shauny Valley where 19
acres are being clearcut for a

580
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:34,720
developer, which nobody wants, at least
nobody that lives here. 19 acres.

581
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:40,720
You realize that a deer needs to feed on
22 acres. one deer. This is 19 acres is

582
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:46,559
no longer there. And we don't want that.
I don't want it. I would rather see high

583
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:51,920
density uh uh developments along our
commercial corridors and not have any

584
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:57,040
more of this because I think this is a
travesty. I'll pass it around if they

585
00:53:54,240 --> 00:54:01,280
look at it. Anybody want to take a look?
>> Is there a benefit to the township

586
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:06,319
» for what for this?
>> Well, I I understand that. for the high

587
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,720
density housing. Is there a tax benefit?
Is there any estimate?

588
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:13,119
» Well, we don't even look at that. There
is, but we don't look. And by the way,

589
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:17,760
another thing that that I'm sure will
come up is everybody talks about the

590
00:54:15,839 --> 00:54:23,280
school taxes. What about the schools?
Well, the statistics that you can Google

591
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:27,119
and read anywhere because there's a lot
of them. High density housing,

592
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:31,920
especially what we're talking about,
which is one bedroom

593
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:36,400
have very little to schools. one-bedroom
apartments had nothing. Two-bedroom

594
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:42,160
apartments, they figure about a quarter
to a half of a student per apartment on

595
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:46,960
average. And the other thing in East
Straburg is there was a meeting of all

596
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:50,880
the parents in the school district about
two weeks ago in which the school

597
00:54:49,119 --> 00:54:55,040
district revealed that they don't know
what to do because they're losing

598
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:58,640
students. They've lost 600 students in
the last couple of years and they're

599
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:04,000
going to have to consolidate or close
schools. doesn't it doesn't save any

600
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:08,400
money, but what it does is say we've got
capacity that we're not using and every

601
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:12,559
time we lose a student, we lose the
subsidies from the state on that

602
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:17,280
student.
>> I'm going to defer the rest of the

603
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:21,200
discussion
to the next to the February 18th meeting

604
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:25,040
when we have something a little more
concrete.

605
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:27,599
I think, you know, I appreciate
everyone's perspective, but I think

606
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:32,160
we're going to be better served by
discussing when we have something in

607
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:36,240
front of us and we'll make sure that
goes online ahead of that meeting. So,

608
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:40,720
we'll make sure we have that, you know,
hopefully a week or so in advance if

609
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:45,680
possible. Do what I can.
>> Yeah. And if you need me to to contact,

610
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:50,160
you know, Eric, I can just give him this
and say, can you give me a map of what

611
00:55:47,839 --> 00:55:53,760
would be eligible?
>> Uh, yeah.

612
00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:58,480
I mean, I was going to see where I could
come up with it. If Eric probably has it

613
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:03,599
more easily than I do, that would save
me some time and effort.

614
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:07,680
» All right. I will contact Eric.
>> Yeah, it is cool.

615
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:13,040
Okay.
All right. We have some progress on the

616
00:56:09,359 --> 00:56:18,559
sign ordinance. Um, Michael, do you want
to give an overview on that? I know Alex

617
00:56:15,359 --> 00:56:23,920
has some info. I know that we have uh
>> All right, let me let me go. Um, okay.

618
00:56:21,359 --> 00:56:30,160
So, in front of [snorts] you, you have a
new draft ordinance related to signage.

619
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:35,680
As you may recall
several months ago, I don't know what it

620
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:42,880
was. Uh, we there was a draft ordinance
that was significantly larger. There was

621
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:47,440
a lot of questions around um off-
premises signs which is another way to

622
00:56:45,359 --> 00:56:52,079
say billboard but it's not exclusively
billboard because billboard you think

623
00:56:49,359 --> 00:56:57,119
giant um but off- premises signs mean
any sign that is for a business that is

624
00:56:54,400 --> 00:57:01,359
not located on that business's property.
Um there was a lot of questions

625
00:56:59,839 --> 00:57:06,720
um a lot more that we needed to look
into. So we agreed that the committee

626
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:13,280
which consisted of um Alex, myself and
Dave Strunk from the the planning

627
00:57:09,359 --> 00:57:19,200
commission um we met every week um for
an hour um first for the large uh

628
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:24,480
ordinance and then we decided it made
sense for this committee to um sort of

629
00:57:21,839 --> 00:57:29,040
tackle this one sort of part of the
signage ordinance at a time. So what you

630
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:35,359
have before you we thought was the most
pressing part and this is namely um

631
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:41,760
defining and creating some language
around limited duration signs and

632
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:47,920
temporary signs. Temporary signs being
um yard signs um things that are going

633
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:53,280
up that are very temporary
um as well as uh limited duration signs

634
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:58,480
which tend to be more like a year tend
to be construction signs uh real estate

635
00:57:55,760 --> 00:58:04,160
signs um
uh that sort of thing. So adding

636
00:58:01,119 --> 00:58:08,079
definitions around that, clarifying that
that was those are two things we added

637
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:16,480
here. And then the other thing that we
added here was um increased power

638
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:21,440
effectively to the township um around
removing

639
00:58:18,079 --> 00:58:29,440
um and or providing notification and
then requiring the removal of um illegal

640
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:37,200
signs um in the townships that um don't
meet the criteria of um pre-existing

641
00:58:32,559 --> 00:58:43,440
non-conforming. Um, so it does allow for
the zoning officer to remove effectively

642
00:58:41,119 --> 00:58:50,720
temporary signs without providing notice
if they are illegal. So that would be if

643
00:58:46,799 --> 00:58:56,319
someone puts a yard sign on somebody
else's property um advertising um a

644
00:58:54,240 --> 00:59:02,240
business or in the right of way that is
technically not legal right now. Um uh

645
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:04,880
but there the township officer right now
the township officer the zoning officer

646
00:59:03,599 --> 00:59:09,520
right now the only signs they can remove
are snipe signs. Snipe signs are signs

647
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:14,559
that are on utility poles. No sign on
utility pole is legal um property

648
00:59:12,079 --> 00:59:18,480
belongs to um the utility companies and
they do not allow them. Uh we are

649
00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:24,400
allowed to remove those. This provides
the ability to remove um illegal yard

650
00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:30,880
signs effectively. It also allows for
the removal of um felapated falling over

651
00:59:28,559 --> 00:59:35,200
signs. If they are at all permanent, it
requires notification, all that sort of

652
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:43,680
stuff and the owner has to remove it. So
there's this was all in the uh last uh

653
00:59:40,079 --> 00:59:47,599
draft ordinance, but it's only really
those sections. Define limited duration

654
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:51,599
signs and talking about what when
they're allowed, when they're not

655
00:59:48,799 --> 00:59:54,079
allowed, temporary signs, um where
they're allowed, when they're not

656
00:59:52,559 --> 01:00:01,680
allowed, all that sort of stuff. as well
as um

657
00:59:57,119 --> 01:00:06,880
uh our ability to better manage um
illegal sons.

658
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:10,240
» And there's a bunch of definitions. This
whole thing is 40 pages long,

659
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:14,160
» right?
>> Um but I will say a bunch of it is

660
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:21,200
definitions that are absent from the
current ordinance.

661
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:23,760
flags, abandon signs, inflable signs,
snipe signs was actually not even

662
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:28,480
defined,
>> right? Do you think at this point it's

663
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:32,240
prudent to
the the reviews?

664
01:00:30,079 --> 01:00:38,480
» So, we need we still need a legal review
on this. Um, is that right, Alex?

665
01:00:36,079 --> 01:00:41,920
Full legal review. Matt zoning officer
has reviewed it and his his comments

666
01:00:40,531 --> 01:00:45,599
[snorts] have already been incorporated
into this.

667
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:50,720
Um,
>> okay.

668
01:00:48,559 --> 01:00:54,160
» Obviously, I think signage um reviewing
from a legal standpoint makes sense

669
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:57,520
because you start talking about
potentially free speech and that's what

670
01:00:56,319 --> 01:01:02,880
signage is.
>> Um, because it's but I think we've done

671
01:00:59,839 --> 01:01:08,400
a good job. Most of this does come from
uh the model ordinance that we were

672
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:14,400
using before as a template.
>> Well, and and you should be aware, Mr.

673
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:18,960
chair that this was given to me uh the
end of December. I probably began to

674
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:21,760
look at it initially the first week in
January and I just haven't had a chance

675
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:25,200
to.
>> It's okay. We've had other

676
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:30,400
» the follow up from you based upon the
other barking dog been dealing with.

677
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:35,680
» Sure. Well, we've had a lot of
ordinances that we've been getting

678
01:01:31,839 --> 01:01:39,440
through. So, um ideally,
you think you could get a review for

679
01:01:37,359 --> 01:01:45,040
February 11th, our next
>> I would think. Yeah, I would totally be

680
01:01:42,079 --> 01:01:48,640
able to get that.
>> Yeah. Is this restricting signs on

681
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:51,680
anybody's private property? Like that
they if they just put up a sign on their

682
01:01:50,079 --> 01:01:56,799
property that the township can come in
and say that's an illegal sign.

683
01:01:53,359 --> 01:02:02,079
» Well, right now uh there are laws
already about signs you can have and you

684
01:01:58,799 --> 01:02:08,160
cannot have on your property. It doesn't
uh restrict free speech, whatever. It's

685
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:12,480
exclusively about um I mean it's the
language is clear

686
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:17,200
» for manic. Yeah. about businesses and so
I mean you cannot right now,

687
01:02:15,507 --> 01:02:22,319
[clears throat] you know, put a big
billboard on your on your property

688
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:26,720
there. By the way, there's a whole slew
of when when temporary signs are legal.

689
01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:29,839
What I was talking about is if it
doesn't meet any of those legal

690
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:35,359
criteria. So, if it is considered an
illegal sign, um

691
01:02:32,799 --> 01:02:42,000
what this does is allows for temporary
signs to be removed. Right now, the

692
01:02:38,559 --> 01:02:46,160
zoning officer would have to site
um for a yard sign that is technically

693
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:51,200
illegal, would have to site, would have
to um go through a process in order for

694
01:02:49,119 --> 01:02:56,799
that sign to be removed except snipe
signs. Um the reason we could do that so

695
01:02:54,160 --> 01:03:00,799
easily with snipe signs is because um of
how very clear it is that it's illegal

696
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:04,079
because it's on somebody else's property
that has already written a letter, sent

697
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:06,799
any sign, any snipe sign on any of our
utility polic.

698
01:03:05,599 --> 01:03:10,400
» Yeah. I mean, that makes sense if it's
somebody else's property, but I think

699
01:03:08,559 --> 01:03:13,359
defining any sign as illegal, you're
going to run into some major first

700
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:16,480
amendment problems with if it's
somebody's own property.

701
01:03:15,119 --> 01:03:20,000
» Yeah. You u
>> So, I understand that people will call

702
01:03:18,079 --> 01:03:24,000
things illegal, but the Supreme Law of
the Land is the First Amendment, right?

703
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:27,520
And so, you would open it up to some
pretty serious legal battles.

704
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:30,559
» So, we've and we've gone over all that.
What's the First Amendment, right? I

705
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:35,520
mean, you're still allowed to restrict
signs in a township. It's done in every

706
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:39,200
township size. Um what you really can't
do is say um

707
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:42,960
» content. You can't restrict content.
>> You can't restrict content. Right. So,

708
01:03:41,119 --> 01:03:50,000
and in fact, what this does is actually
allows more um if it's not um business

709
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:52,720
specific.
>> Would you do that any different if it

710
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:55,119
was a piece of paper? Can I write
whatever I want in a small piece of

711
01:03:54,079 --> 01:03:59,520
paper?
>> Theoretically, you can't have a sniper

712
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:03,359
sign that says lost dog on a teleport.
You're not allowed to have that.

713
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:05,440
» If we go was if we go beyond it.
>> Okay. Sorry,

714
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:09,599
» question and answer. I, you know, I want
to make sure we comment so everyone gets

715
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:14,240
their their uh their say.
>> I guess I'll just say thank you for the

716
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:17,200
comment on free speech and we're very
well aware of it which is one of the

717
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:20,480
reasons why I mean we've been talking
about signage for

718
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:25,280
» since I started in the bank I mean
probably 10 years or longer. Yeah. um

719
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:35,599
how there are challenges and the biggest
challenge that has been uh noted is uh a

720
01:04:30,079 --> 01:04:40,640
lot of these 209 littered with um
what are illegal signs because they're

721
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:45,680
not allowed in and our ordinance um that
are in rightways that are not on

722
01:04:43,359 --> 01:04:49,760
properties that are belong to people. I
mean that's one example. So,

723
01:04:48,319 --> 01:04:54,319
» and that that I that I completely
understand. Other property,

724
01:04:51,599 --> 01:04:56,000
» rightways, etc. That makes sense.
>> Um, excuse me. May I have your name,

725
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:57,760
please?
>> Uh, Phil Ryan.

726
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:03,280
» Thank you.
>> But on your property, um, if you want to

727
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:08,640
write up a sign that says um, God is
great or I hate Biden or anything like

728
01:05:05,839 --> 01:05:14,720
that, that's perfected under the
Constitution and also Supreme Court

729
01:05:11,039 --> 01:05:17,039
decision 2015 called Reed versus
Gilbert. We can't control any of that.

730
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:20,640
Yeah,
>> I agree. My worry is that is it is it

731
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:24,319
just that now can't have a certain size
sign saying that and is there a busy

732
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:28,240
body that's going to come up with a
reason why you can't say what you want

733
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:34,319
to say? I think that's
>> entirely on our end. It's entirely it's

734
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:38,160
as aesthetic as we can, but it's it's
not about the content. You know, it's

735
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:42,880
about making sure that theory doesn't
become blighted. We have that the worst

736
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:46,079
offender is these feather flag signs
that get shredded over time in the wind

737
01:05:44,559 --> 01:05:49,039
and then they become a nuisance and
they're usually in the right away and

738
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:52,799
things like that.
>> Yeah, that's polluting other property

739
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,799
which that makes that I completely
understand.

740
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:58,880
» That's that's [clears throat] if you ask
Scott Amoy who probably has the same

741
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:02,240
exact views as you the chair of our
planning commission. I think that's

742
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:06,000
Scott's number one. He was you know
think that true in other people. So I

743
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:11,200
think that's that's the intention and
they're certainly going to review it

744
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:15,520
once we get through a legal review
>> and that exactly the point that he's

745
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:21,839
raises the lens you should be reviewing
this with sort of care. Yeah.

746
01:06:19,599 --> 01:06:25,200
» All right. Under new business we have
the consideration for revisions to the

747
01:06:23,839 --> 01:06:28,640
developers agreement regarding the
Smithfield sewer authority and

748
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:34,960
development plan.
Want to say this was done at some point

749
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:40,400
in December. could have been uh earlier
than that. I don't have any backup, but

750
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:44,799
I know Michael, you had some stuff. Uh
did you want Russ to come up to the

751
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:49,839
» I it really was at my request that this
was all because I had reviewed the

752
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:54,520
revisions that were suggested by
attorney Kitwell Smithfield.

753
01:06:54,559 --> 01:07:01,640
I had prepared a development agreement
and sent it out

754
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:11,119
December 15
fact a little earlier than that December

755
01:07:07,359 --> 01:07:18,400
11th and then Bob had or Bob Chidwell
had asked for a word version so that he

756
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:24,240
could then mark it up and do whatever
needed to be done which he did and sent

757
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:28,079
me a marked up copy.
And

758
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:32,280
uh again had a number of changes. He
wanted to make sure that

759
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:39,200
the authority was indicated as both the
owner and developer of the project and

760
01:07:37,599 --> 01:07:45,359
that
uh the fees that are charged would be

761
01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:50,000
reasonable, necessary and itemized.
Uh that

762
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:56,160
there would be no release for the
township's acts. that the township did

763
01:07:52,640 --> 01:08:02,079
something that was negligent or willful.
Uh and

764
01:07:58,559 --> 01:08:06,880
the major items are that this authority
doesn't want to postponing security.

765
01:08:05,039 --> 01:08:12,880
According to the quantity and cost
estimate, that security would be around

766
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:18,159
$212,000.
The authority doesn't want to post the

767
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:26,319
18month maintenance security. Again, I
believe their argument for that is that

768
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:30,560
we are not uh we're not instructing any
public improvements. We're just doing

769
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:34,719
private improvements. I'm not sure how
if that works for the storm water, but

770
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:39,279
I'll defer to in that regard.
>> Storm is almost done anyway.

771
01:08:36,799 --> 01:08:43,199
» And they do not want the restrictive
covenant provisions in the stormwater

772
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:47,920
covenant that I normally put that runs
with the land. In other words, that the

773
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:52,960
owner of that property would have to
take care of and make sure that the

774
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:57,279
storm water facilities are clear and
able to be used and not being

775
01:08:54,640 --> 01:09:01,199
accumulated with various particles. So,
just to just to be clear, not saying

776
01:08:59,759 --> 01:09:05,759
they don't have to do these things, they
will do these things, but that they

777
01:09:02,480 --> 01:09:10,239
wouldn't need to be bonded. Um and I
will say I have some language here that

778
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:14,560
was at that I was told if maybe it could
be added in lea of any performance or

779
01:09:12,239 --> 01:09:17,199
financial security the authority shall
request demonstrate to the reasonable

780
01:09:15,839 --> 01:09:20,719
satisfaction of the fashion solicitoring
authority uh that the authority

781
01:09:18,799 --> 01:09:24,799
maintains the sufficient funds because
for them they're saying because it's a

782
01:09:23,199 --> 01:09:28,000
public entity they're raising these
funds to do it they're going to have the

783
01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:31,120
bank account um
>> essentially want to self collateralize

784
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:34,560
» yeah they're just going to say we're
going to have the revenue we're going to

785
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:39,440
show you that we have it before we start
any work. Um, but that means we have to

786
01:09:37,759 --> 01:09:42,640
have it and we have to get a bond for
it, which they're basically saying is

787
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:47,040
doubling what they need to have. And the
main rationale for why it's a little bit

788
01:09:44,239 --> 01:09:52,640
of a unique is it is a municipal entity.
Um, and the reality is in the event that

789
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:56,960
the sewer authority goes bust over this
$200,000, which of course would never

790
01:09:54,159 --> 01:10:02,400
happen, but in the event they did, it's
the township that would have to

791
01:09:58,239 --> 01:10:06,239
ultimately pay for it anyway. So there's
the ramification. There's no difference

792
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:09,360
really I guess in that well the
authority is just separate

793
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:12,480
» it's but it's part we went
>> I feel like

794
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:16,320
» we went hold on we went through this
>> in detail around our audit and we made a

795
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:20,080
very strong argument that they are
parked that was the whole thing around

796
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:26,640
why when we had our whole conversations
around the audit

797
01:10:22,159 --> 01:10:31,520
» yeah I um I don't have issue with the
changes if if John has I don't know I

798
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:36,640
know the storm water part is probably
the most important given that they're

799
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:42,239
not constructing any other improvements
necessarily for public use. I mean, we

800
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:46,719
have our own park immediately next door.
You know, I get that. Um, part of this

801
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:49,920
part of this came up, too, because I
mean, I'm I'm the sewer authority. I'm

802
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:56,640
appointed as the sewer authority
representative. um my confusion because

803
01:10:53,199 --> 01:11:00,239
I assumed these sorts of bonds were
specific to the public improvements

804
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:04,400
because I thought in other cases they
were specific to public improvements,

805
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:07,600
not all the improvements of the project
because we don't public,

806
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:10,800
» right?
>> But the fund we're requesting is not

807
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:14,719
public improvements because there's no
public improvement in this in this case.

808
01:11:12,480 --> 01:11:18,239
» Well, I get and that's what the
authority is saying, but I can't just

809
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:22,560
say okay, you got to have the
supervisor, right? Right.

810
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:25,360
Yeah,
>> I apologize.

811
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:28,000
» Hang hang on. We'll do public comment
when

812
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:30,239
» No, it's not it's it's about pertaining
to this issue.

813
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:35,120
» Yeah, but we'll we'll do that once the
board discusses and then No, it's okay.

814
01:11:33,440 --> 01:11:39,360
We'll I'll call when you're when we're
ready.

815
01:11:36,719 --> 01:11:43,440
» I mean, I don't have any particular
issue. I think it makes a lot of sense.

816
01:11:41,679 --> 01:11:49,440
I'd like to extend that that hand of
cooperation to to them. I mean, are

817
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:53,199
there any other specific requests other
than than that? Because that seems

818
01:11:51,520 --> 01:12:00,159
» That's the one line plus the edits that
were already submitted.

819
01:11:55,840 --> 01:12:01,199
» Robert, any um is Russ here.
>> What?

820
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:02,560
» Russ.
>> Yes.

821
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:08,719
» Yeah. Do you want to
>> No, I I I just

822
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:16,080
» Thanks, Russ. So, we there may be some
questions in this next um new business

823
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:24,960
article about um uh letter to Manual. So
I I know in the sewer authority we

824
01:12:18,719 --> 01:12:30,880
studied the um um the manual sewer uh
what do they call it facility um the

825
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:35,120
hammer did a report so we may just need
referrals u to some of the things we

826
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:39,760
found in that but if you just stick
around so we can get through the next

827
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:43,199
time it's all but
>> okay but I don't know what well what I

828
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:47,760
could offer but I'll stick around
>> well thanks your your source of

829
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:54,159
information. That's all.
>> Okay, sounds good. Thank you, Russ. All

830
01:12:50,719 --> 01:12:59,040
right, yeah, Katie, you had a question.
>> Yeah, I was just wondering um so just to

831
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:04,320
clarify,
we are the developer is paying the

832
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:09,520
$212,000
for this or we are

833
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:13,920
» no the the developer, which in this case
is the sewer authority. So he's just

834
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:19,679
adding language
to specify that part.

835
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:24,960
» So when you may have seen this with
Shauny Valley

836
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:29,679
» when a developer develops a property
>> uh any public improvement that they're

837
01:13:27,679 --> 01:13:33,120
going to develop in addition to getting
approval to move forward they have to

838
01:13:31,679 --> 01:13:37,280
post a bond
>> in the event that they do everything

839
01:13:35,440 --> 01:13:43,280
except the public improvements and then
they get out of town. that bond can then

840
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:46,719
be taken by the township to finish those
public improvements. All right. My

841
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:50,400
understanding is it's pretty typical
that

842
01:13:48,239 --> 01:13:56,080
» any of the sort of improvements on the
property end up falling under this

843
01:13:52,719 --> 01:14:00,880
developers agreement. And in this case,
um the sewer authority has said doesn't

844
01:13:58,239 --> 01:14:03,920
necessarily make us make sense for us to
the bond and because we have a bank

845
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:07,199
account showing you that we have the
money that's been reserved for this

846
01:14:05,199 --> 01:14:10,719
purpose and they want to add that
language so that they don't have to also

847
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:14,400
toast the bond.
because

848
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:19,280
ultimately it would be us drawing down
on the bond which would happen in the

849
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:23,920
effect that they default which means we
would already have to assume their

850
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:26,320
liability anyway. So we essentially
decided not to

851
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:31,120
» that was the part that I got confused
on.

852
01:14:26,719 --> 01:14:35,199
» Yeah, it's easy. Yeah.
>> All right. Um,

853
01:14:33,199 --> 01:14:43,120
» so I mean can I just make a motion to
approve the document as um amended um

854
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:48,760
but including this line that I have that
was drafted by

855
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:48,760
the one I read

856
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:56,159
just saying it'll give the township
access to see the account so that we

857
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:58,400
know that there's the money to finish
this project.

858
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:02,159
» Okay.
>> Motion by Mr. Alvar. Do I hear a second?

859
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:06,159
started. Second, Mr. Levenheime
discussion

860
01:15:04,239 --> 01:15:09,719
with that. All in favor?
>> I I

861
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:14,880
need to copy this when I do this.
>> You can have that.

862
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:17,840
» Well, here we keep the plastic. It's
it's fancy instrument. Fine. Okay.

863
01:15:17,199 --> 01:15:20,719
» I'll take it.
>> A very nice translucent folder.

864
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:24,320
» Okay.
>> Thank you.

865
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:28,640
Next uh item being under new business,
the consideration for the offer of

866
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:32,880
stipulation regarding the M manor back 9
MX injunction litigation. I wanted to

867
01:15:31,199 --> 01:15:36,239
say before we get to the actual
consideration

868
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:41,280
that in the spirit of community, the
board has chosen to extend an olive

869
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:46,880
branch to restore the right of the burn
boys uh the ability to ride with

870
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:51,040
friends. It's our hope that in this that
this results in some positive movement.

871
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:56,560
Michael and Robert have thoughts and
they'll address some of the details, but

872
01:15:54,000 --> 01:16:00,239
I want to uh note for the record that
the attorneys from the represented

873
01:15:58,719 --> 01:16:04,880
parties
uh have seen the draft of the

874
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:10,159
stipulation earlier this week. I note
that this applies only to the injunction

875
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:17,120
as it relates to the the zoning case. It
is different than uh the underlying case

876
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:21,920
itself. This is theoretically temporary,
but Michael, I'll let you explain if you

877
01:16:20,159 --> 01:16:29,280
want to additional.
>> I don't see all the boys are here.

878
01:16:26,239 --> 01:16:34,239
They're not here, but um
effectively what this is, it's actually

879
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:40,159
we went back to the initial offer that
had been made. Um, again, in keeping

880
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:44,480
with Judge Zulick's indication that you
can come to some agreement until the

881
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:50,000
appeal is heard around the ri writing of
the family members,

882
01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:54,239
um, that that offer at that time had
included some stipulations around the

883
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:58,320
zoning officer having to be present.
Instead, we sort of dropped that. Added

884
01:16:56,320 --> 01:17:04,960
that this would be the two the two
burned boys along with up to a maximum

885
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:11,199
four friends um all under 21 years of
age. There's some um a number of hours

886
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:15,199
provided but it does include weekdays,
Saturdays, Sundays

887
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:21,600
um
uh you know 3 to six during the week. Uh

888
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:27,280
Saturdays 10 to 4, Sundays noon to 4. Um
it also very clearly highlights um a

889
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:34,560
couple things. One that all other laws
in the township um must be um held into

890
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:40,640
account including our um noise
ordinance. So that's important. This

891
01:17:37,199 --> 01:17:49,520
doesn't um mean we can break the noise
ordinance. Um it also

892
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:54,560
doesn't condone um any development of uh
the property or motocross facility and

893
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:59,920
doesn't certainly doesn't um condone the
use as a motocross facility but does

894
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:03,920
ensure that especially if the case is
delayed significantly further that at

895
01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:08,159
least the family that owns property,
their boys and their friends can

896
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:15,040
continue to use the track as they would
um if this was their backyard.

897
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:19,440
um and as a residential area. So, um
this has been provided to the attorneys

898
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:24,080
and um regardless of whether they've
accepted, we want we have to vote on

899
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:27,760
whether or not we're formally um making
this offer.

900
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:32,560
» The reason is [clears throat] later on
Sunday at noon was just because there's

901
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:38,880
a church near the high and we didn't
want to disturb everything.

902
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:42,480
» I'll entertain a motion on the offer.
A motion to

903
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:48,400
approve the offer.
>> Motion by Mr. Alber. Do I hear a second?

904
01:18:46,239 --> 01:18:54,280
Discussion.
>> Sure.

905
01:18:50,719 --> 01:18:54,280
» Yes. Do you wouldn't

906
01:18:55,600 --> 01:19:02,560
even members of the board. I am actually
here speaking on behalf of the Burn

907
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:07,520
family tonight regarding the township's
proposed stipulation addressing personal

908
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:11,280
family use of the property to Hudson
Grant.

909
01:19:08,719 --> 01:19:15,199
First, I want to thank Mr. Levenheim for
the time and effort he has put into

910
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:19,280
this. We recognize that he heard the
request at the last meeting. He acted

911
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:23,840
quickly and he worked to be responsive
and we appreciate that. We acknowledge

912
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:28,560
receipt of the township's proposed
stipulation and understand that the

913
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:32,880
township has characterized it as a firm
non-negotiable

914
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:38,080
offer. However, as written, there are
specific components that raise concern

915
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:43,120
and do not appear to function as true
private family use of the property. The

916
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:47,920
owners greatly appreciate the steps
taken for the resolution, but until they

917
01:19:46,159 --> 01:19:51,840
have had the opportunity to fully
confirm with their legal counsel, they

918
01:19:50,239 --> 01:19:56,239
are not prepared to state a position
verbally this evening. They simply want

919
01:19:54,320 --> 01:20:01,600
to ensure that anything agreed to is
legally sound and does not create

920
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:07,199
unintended consequences moving forward
for them um in the future. Any response

921
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:11,280
will be provided formally and in writing
after that review, but I think it'll be

922
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:14,760
step in the right direction. So, thank
you all for

923
01:20:15,199 --> 01:20:23,520
you should be aware that the the vote
tonight is to confirm the offer. We

924
01:20:21,199 --> 01:20:27,600
understand the offer may not be accepted
where that you may want to make changes

925
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:31,840
to the offer etc. Whether the board
would want to do that is another story

926
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:35,600
but right now this vote is simply to say
we confirmed the offer on the table.

927
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:43,280
» Greatly appreciate that.
>> I also think that Mr. Albert deserves

928
01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:47,440
equal credit on this because he started
this several months ago trying to get

929
01:20:45,440 --> 01:20:52,080
something in in in place
>> and the efforts have not gone unnoticed.

930
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:56,239
We appreciate that. You know, we just
and obviously yes, you are voting on the

931
01:20:53,920 --> 01:21:01,440
stipulation. Um but you know, we just
want obviously the legal counsel on us

932
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:04,960
to offer an advice. I'm sure things got
a step.

933
01:21:02,239 --> 01:21:10,320
» Can I say one thing too? I'm aware that
um Ron attorney Keros was sort of

934
01:21:08,159 --> 01:21:15,120
dotting his eyes and crossing his tees.
Um but I would say we didn't

935
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:20,800
specifically agree that this was the
absolute firmst thing possible. the

936
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:24,880
hours pro they were they were sort of
like oh well let's do this so I I think

937
01:21:23,199 --> 01:21:27,760
if there's that tiny little detail
nuance please don't be like well no you

938
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:32,000
know
>> yeah no and and um you know respectfully

939
01:21:30,239 --> 01:21:37,679
there's a starting point and I think the
fact that there is a starting point that

940
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:40,800
hopefully you know terms can just be
insured through our lawyer that you know

941
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:44,719
if there is something that is
questionable there can be some

942
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:48,560
negotiation but we fully recognize
absolutely the olive branch and you know

943
01:21:46,719 --> 01:21:53,120
the The goal in all of this is to get
the boys, you know, back on the track.

944
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:57,920
This is family property to use it as
such. So, the appreciation is certainly

945
01:21:55,280 --> 01:22:02,000
there and we want to thank you and uh,
you know, work with the board moving

946
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:06,400
forward for the sole purpose at this
point in time of getting the voice

947
01:22:03,360 --> 01:22:11,120
riding. So, much appreciated. Thank you.
>> I'm curious why uh I have friends like

948
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:15,920
over 21. Why would they not be able to
ride with me? I think there was a

949
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:20,239
general feeling that if it was over 21
that might be some form of business that

950
01:22:18,480 --> 01:22:26,000
is happening and there was just sort of
concern that there should be limited to

951
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:29,440
friends. Um that that was the feeling
for why it should be that way and that's

952
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:36,880
why it was crafted that way to think
about it as your sort of peers as

953
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:39,760
opposed to some sort of formal
commercial training.

954
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:42,880
» Well, [clears throat] I'd like to add to
that. I need to ride with at least like

955
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:47,199
my trainer that would be like the whole
purpose. It's like a training track.

956
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:51,280
That's why we built it. Like he's not 21
or under and like it's that's like a

957
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:56,639
little like up absurd like the limit of
21 I would say. And then like I

958
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:59,440
» I think if you're at Tarnney, you know,
will will speak to us. I mean I there

959
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:03,360
might be
>> Yeah. And then there might be a

960
01:23:00,719 --> 01:23:08,199
distinction between someone's
physical presence uh versus

961
01:23:08,239 --> 01:23:13,120
you know.
>> Correct. So I I think that you know

962
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:16,719
that's a point you know we're happy to
hear your position when when when you're

963
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:20,480
ready to provide them
>> and make sure please bring that back

964
01:23:18,639 --> 01:23:24,719
also to the attorney as well that
there's

965
01:23:21,679 --> 01:23:29,280
» we appreciate the office to you know
certainly investigate you know there's a

966
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:33,440
few areas that maybe we need to you know
just have some further discussion on.

967
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:38,080
That is much appreciated.
>> Also, just know if there's tweaks, this

968
01:23:35,679 --> 01:23:40,080
has to go before here again and voted on
again

969
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:43,199
» because we're going to we may vote on
this and this is a formal offer. If

970
01:23:41,679 --> 01:23:46,480
there's changes, you have to do that
again. And my understanding is it has to

971
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:49,760
be registered with judge as well. Is
that correct, Bob? [clears throat]

972
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:53,520
» The stipulation would be filed with the
court and approved by the judge as a

973
01:23:52,159 --> 01:23:57,120
court order. I mean, the judge could
always say, "I'm not doing this." I

974
01:23:55,120 --> 01:24:02,480
don't think that would happen if the
parties have agreed based upon this

975
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:06,400
various this very contentious matter. I
think the judge would agree. Uh but

976
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:11,600
again, [clears throat] we don't have the
judge who entered the order on the bench

977
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:15,560
anymore. This will be a new judge.
>> Second.

978
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:15,560
» Okay.

979
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:21,520
» All in favor?
>> I I

980
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:25,360
» Okay. Item C. under new business the
consideration to join the environmental

981
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:29,360
advisory council's letter regarding the
manual wastewater treatment plant.

982
01:24:28,159 --> 01:24:34,560
» Are you guys taking any questions on
that last one?

983
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:37,560
» Uh we're not we can do in public comment
which

984
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:46,080
» um so going to describe that to us.
has a long kind of procedural history,

985
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:49,840
but the environmental advisory council
has weighed in previously on the East

986
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:55,520
Strasburg wastewater treatment plan and
it's essentially the same type of uh

987
01:24:53,120 --> 01:25:01,199
weighing in and I thought it might be
prudent for us to join in their in their

988
01:24:58,480 --> 01:25:02,719
efforts. So, Alex, you describe that for
us.

989
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:09,040
» Yeah, Mr. Chair, I mean, I could
describe it and you also have members of

990
01:25:04,719 --> 01:25:13,360
the EAC here present. Um B publishes
notices

991
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:20,400
in the PA bulletin. They have public
comment periods. In this case,

992
01:25:16,639 --> 01:25:26,560
um it ended but then it was extended.
Um basically the deadline for public

993
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:32,239
comment is about February 10th or
something like that now. and the AC

994
01:25:30,159 --> 01:25:35,840
wanted to wanted to see if they could
get permission from the supervisors to

995
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:42,080
send a letter during that public comment
period um to to ask for a public hearing

996
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:46,080
um which was sort of the same procedural
thing that happened with the East

997
01:25:43,199 --> 01:25:48,560
Strasburg wastewater plant. Um, in
addition to that, there were some

998
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:53,520
concerns that they raised at the
meeting. Um, in particular, it's also

999
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:59,199
worth noting that this wastewater
treatment plant district is very close

1000
01:25:55,199 --> 01:26:02,800
to Rivers Edge and Men Park. By very
close, I mean within hundreds of feet.

1001
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:07,920
So, it's, you know, kind of like right
there. Um

1002
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:12,960
there's some concerns with some of the
outdated technology

1003
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:17,760
and the EAC wanted to emphasize upgrades
to best available technology. And then

1004
01:26:15,679 --> 01:26:22,000
it was also noted that during the Rivers
Edge master site development plan when I

1005
01:26:20,159 --> 01:26:26,560
looked into it and I brought to this
AC's attention

1006
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:32,639
um after they discussed it there were
endangered aquatic species that were

1007
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:36,239
identified in that vicinity. So the so
that was included in the draft. So there

1008
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:40,159
was a draft letter put together and it's
basically just a draft just to because

1009
01:26:38,639 --> 01:26:44,560
the AC wants to see if they had your
blessing to send this or a version of it

1010
01:26:42,239 --> 01:26:48,000
to the D and that was kind of how they
left it. I don't know if council member

1011
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:53,440
was going to comment at all or
>> the reason the reason I asked Russ to

1012
01:26:50,639 --> 01:27:00,639
stick around a few minutes was this that
um couple of years ago we uh had our

1013
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:01,760
engineering do a survey of that plant
and

1014
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:08,159
» [clears throat]
>> um there were some repairs necessities.

1015
01:27:05,679 --> 01:27:12,560
I just wonder Russ if you remember any
of the highlights of that might um be

1016
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:16,960
relevant to what we're talking about
now. No, I don't have any of that

1017
01:27:14,719 --> 01:27:20,639
information handy. I I I just don't
recall. Okay, Robert,

1018
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:25,199
» one second.
>> Can I just So I can understand um

1019
01:27:23,335 --> 01:27:30,239
[clears throat]
the main

1020
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:35,520
point of this letter is requesting that
PA uh the D make a public meeting of

1021
01:27:34,239 --> 01:27:39,120
this because they don't normally do a
public meeting. Is that correct?

1022
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:43,600
» That's correct. And the main reason for
the public meeting is a recommendation

1023
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:49,760
from the EAC. I mean, I see four points,
but it's basically one point that you

1024
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:52,880
think PA Americans should move to UV uh
disinfecting from chlorine. Is that

1025
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:56,480
correct? Is there anything else that I'm
missing here?

1026
01:27:54,239 --> 01:28:01,040
» Wait, one more thing. I have another
thing. I'm sorry.

1027
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:07,199
» That's one technological upgrades that
were identified as um

1028
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:10,880
sort of best available technology that
we know other plants. I believe the

1029
01:28:08,639 --> 01:28:13,040
Smithfield sort already has UV that if
they were

1030
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:16,800
» that's what this says. And is there is
chlorine not no longer allowed as a

1031
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:22,400
sort. I'm just
>> I'm trying to understand what

1032
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:24,880
» what I'm part of me is trying to
understand the jurisdiction that the

1033
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:27,440
township has here because my
understanding is this is entirely

1034
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:31,360
governed by D.
>> That's why we need you to sign the D

1035
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:36,239
with us.
>> Right. But and so this idea sort of

1036
01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:40,480
makes us a party but it'd be great to be
at a party

1037
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:42,800
um to be a party member but do we have
any jurisdiction? I just don't I don't

1038
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:46,000
know the answer to that. I don't that's
the question to you Ron. I mean what

1039
01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:51,280
sort of jurisdiction do we have to
govern

1040
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:54,800
» um this even if I agree with it 100% yes
it should be recommended

1041
01:28:52,560 --> 01:29:00,080
» say it it's kind of the same and we're
not talking about it legally but it's

1042
01:28:57,040 --> 01:29:05,920
like Strasburg weighs in you know with
Panda and D on the permitting for the

1043
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:09,120
theoretical 80 expansion and whatnot
>> and get nowhere on it. [laughter]

1044
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:13,520
» I'm not going to tell you that I dis I'm
not going to tell you I disagree with

1045
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:17,840
that. Um, I do think that DP has been
kind of responsive in this area and Alex

1046
01:29:16,159 --> 01:29:22,080
could probably talk about it more than I
in terms of like and know this is not an

1047
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:25,840
NPDES permit.
>> This is

1048
01:29:23,440 --> 01:29:27,520
» No, it's it's an NPDS permit for waste
water.

1049
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:30,880
» Okay.
>> So, it's a permit renewal. They they

1050
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:35,920
only come once every 5 years, Mr.
Chairman. That's the other thing, right?

1051
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:39,440
You miss it since we got five years of
whatever they're dumping.

1052
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:44,400
» There's another question. Have you also
looked into the wastewater treatment

1053
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:47,520
plant of the paper mill and what they
use?

1054
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:52,960
» Well, they're not up for renewal. We can
do that next definitely. But what I'm

1055
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:58,480
saying, this particular facility is
bought by a million dollar a billion

1056
01:29:55,120 --> 01:30:05,520
dollar company. Um, it is public record
that they are polluting. Um, we're well

1057
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:11,920
above healthc care standards in the
water, although it's not illegal.

1058
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:18,239
Um, Act 537 says that there should be
some upgrades going on.

1059
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:24,639
They they do claim that they're doing
upgrades, but you cannot find an upgrade

1060
01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:28,400
list or a timeline list any
>> so for all I know they're doing upgrades

1061
01:30:27,199 --> 01:30:33,920
on their office
>> or anyone to speak to as far as

1062
01:30:30,480 --> 01:30:38,639
» So yeah, you can't speak to. So the only
person and I did ask this a couple of

1063
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:47,199
meetings ago directly to Michael who
said you have to go to the D of which we

1064
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:55,360
did intern do we went to the D. So all
like all we're asking you is to maybe

1065
01:30:51,360 --> 01:31:00,159
check inside some of these
situations. This is a billion dollar

1066
01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:07,280
company. They have money to upgrade the
facility. This is also our area that

1067
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:11,840
they are dumping into.
>> Right. Let me just clarify that the

1068
01:31:09,199 --> 01:31:16,000
procedural posture here. I added it to
the agenda basically to join and

1069
01:31:14,239 --> 01:31:19,280
requesting the hearing just so we can
get that information. It doesn't

1070
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:23,679
want
>> Well, yeah. I'm just saying it doesn't

1071
01:31:21,440 --> 01:31:26,080
» obligate us to a position.
>> No.

1072
01:31:24,719 --> 01:31:29,920
» Yeah. No, I know. I'm just
>> and I want to the reason part of the

1073
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:32,960
reason I asked too is to highlight that
you can have the public hearing doesn't

1074
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:35,040
mean anything's going to change and it
doesn't necessarily mean that we're

1075
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:39,199
going to have any power to make any
change. I want to make sure that's

1076
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:44,199
clear. You can do this that doesn't mean
>> it's

1077
01:31:41,199 --> 01:31:44,199
Michael.

1078
01:31:45,440 --> 01:31:56,480
» Okay. Um, we all collecting enough
information to vote on the letter.

1079
01:31:53,600 --> 01:32:00,159
» Oh, I mean my question was to
>> All you're doing is basically saying we

1080
01:31:58,239 --> 01:32:04,159
want a public hearing so we can make our
comments. Whether or not they'll listen

1081
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:07,760
to those comments or whether they'll
announce I don't know but you're

1082
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:11,760
basically saying is
>> as the chair said when you do a have a

1083
01:32:09,679 --> 01:32:15,840
pen do permit pendot usually sends a
letter when they're doing their review

1084
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:20,400
and say do you want to make any comments
you have any comments about any comments

1085
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:24,480
about that even though pen do makes the
call the comment the township can still

1086
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:28,000
weigh in so that's what you're doing
you're saying we want to weigh in

1087
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:32,320
» right I just see it as a mechanism
because I think the AC did this on their

1088
01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:36,480
own before I I think it it looks better
if it comes from from us too

1089
01:32:34,480 --> 01:32:40,080
appreciating you know their concerns and
then if we do have any comment

1090
01:32:38,239 --> 01:32:46,639
ultimately Alex you'd be the one
>> well and I just want the other thing is

1091
01:32:41,679 --> 01:32:50,480
I from a technology standpoint and
I don't know if UV is better than

1092
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:54,639
chlorine I mean the last thing I want is
just feces going into the broadhead

1093
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:59,440
that's been
a lamps put on it so before I ever

1094
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:06,639
submitted something saying I'm
advocating for UV light on on sewage as

1095
01:33:04,239 --> 01:33:10,800
opposed to chlorine which for my history
it seems like that is a better way to

1096
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:16,960
kill the sewage. I would like to sort of
make sure that is true before I sign my

1097
01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:22,480
name's something recommending um it go a
certain way that that's the other thing

1098
01:33:19,679 --> 01:33:25,360
» right
>> all right so accordingly we could make

1099
01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:28,880
uh
>> but we're not doing that right now we're

1100
01:33:26,639 --> 01:33:33,600
just saying we want a public hearing
>> yeah so so I'll just I'll differentiate

1101
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:40,480
when I ask for a motion in a second that
you know BAC can submit this should

1102
01:33:36,480 --> 01:33:45,199
should they want to but hours would be
uh stinct then I mean or edit the letter

1103
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:48,320
uh and
>> why don't we do this why don't we have a

1104
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:52,159
letter why don't we have a letter that's
come from the township that's very

1105
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:58,080
simple that says based on this based on
the attack recommendation from the um

1106
01:33:55,920 --> 01:34:03,520
Smithfield um environmental advisory
council we would request that you host

1107
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:06,880
and then just repeat the first
>> and then they're both attached

1108
01:34:05,199 --> 01:34:10,480
» perfect you make that motion by
>> I I just did

1109
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:17,840
» motion by Mr. Sarah Alair second. Mr.
Levenheim discussion. All in favor? I.

1110
01:34:15,199 --> 01:34:22,719
» Okay. We will now proceed to general
public comment. Um [clears throat] if

1111
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:28,480
you'd like, uh please come up to the
podium and state your name uh and where

1112
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:33,840
you live and then we'll uh start the
time. But any public

1113
01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:40,320
» are you going to ask us on Zoom?
>> Yeah.

1114
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:42,560
» Can I go ahead and jump in? Sure.
Go ahead.

1115
01:34:40,880 --> 01:34:46,400
» So, so I have a question. I have a
question about back nine. So, you have

1116
01:34:44,480 --> 01:34:51,159
an injunction and you're shutting these
people's track down because of sound,

1117
01:34:48,159 --> 01:34:51,159
correct?

1118
01:34:51,280 --> 01:35:01,920
» No. the the the appeal that is in place
is around the operation of a business

1119
01:34:58,639 --> 01:35:07,280
motocross facility uh which
by our township zoning officer is not an

1120
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:10,400
allowed use in the R1 zone.
>> How does that affect people riding on

1121
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:13,199
their personal land if they're not doing
a business? It seems pretty easy you

1122
01:35:12,159 --> 01:35:17,199
could just go ahead and let them ride
and say you can't have a business. Am I

1123
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:21,760
wrong there?
>> You want to pause the timer again just

1124
01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:27,440
to answer that but we in fact
uh made an offer to do just that for the

1125
01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:30,560
folks affected that you know reside
there.

1126
01:35:28,480 --> 01:35:34,159
» That was the offer that just went out.
It should be said that

1127
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:38,239
» No, it wasn't. You you said people under
21, which is lunacy to me. Why would

1128
01:35:36,239 --> 01:35:42,679
that matter? Somebody's age. Wouldn't it
be more like limit the number of

1129
01:35:39,679 --> 01:35:42,679
motorcycles?

1130
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:49,920
» We appreciate the the feedback, but
we're going to let our owners stand.

1131
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:52,880
» Hold on. You can't give me a reason on
that age thing because it doesn't make

1132
01:35:51,360 --> 01:35:58,480
any logical sense. If you could just
tell me, it'd be pretty simple, right?

1133
01:35:56,080 --> 01:36:02,880
Do you not have an answer?
>> Um, I mean, we do have an answer. I'm

1134
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:08,840
happy to talk about it with the with the
lawyer. Um,

1135
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:08,840
» why can't you do it publicly?

1136
01:36:09,199 --> 01:36:16,159
» Hold on. It's not question answer.
You can continue to to to make a

1137
01:36:14,239 --> 01:36:22,320
comment. The purpose of this was to give
the Burn Boys and their friends the

1138
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:26,480
opportunity to ride on track um and not
for this to be a motocross facility.

1139
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:31,040
That's that's the answer.
>> Yeah. Which is wild because I ride and

1140
01:36:28,880 --> 01:36:33,920
I'm well older than 21 now. I can't go
ride at the Burns House just simply

1141
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:37,760
because of this law that you guys are
putting in or this injunction. That's

1142
01:36:35,679 --> 01:36:43,360
lunacy.
the the judge actually

1143
01:36:41,120 --> 01:36:47,679
gave us this opportunity to present it
on the same. He doesn't care.

1144
01:36:45,600 --> 01:36:50,880
» No, I do care. I'm just curious as to I
think it's one of the it just doesn't

1145
01:36:49,119 --> 01:36:53,920
make sense to me logically as why you
would choose a specific age. I see what

1146
01:36:52,639 --> 01:36:58,400
you're saying, but what you're saying
doesn't make sense.

1147
01:36:55,840 --> 01:37:02,639
» Well,
I think there's a trust issue as well,

1148
01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:05,360
being perfectly honest.
>> So, you don't trust adults, but you

1149
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:09,119
trust kids?
>> No, I don't trust that. if we leave it

1150
01:37:07,040 --> 01:37:12,800
open to anyone that it won't become a
motocross facility.

1151
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:15,360
» How about you deal with that later and
you just go ahead and actually let them

1152
01:37:14,159 --> 01:37:18,639
use their land the way they're supposed
to and then if they violate that then

1153
01:37:17,440 --> 01:37:22,960
you shut it down if you catch them
running as a business.

1154
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:29,840
» We're not doing cross talk.
>> Yeah, we had cross talk.

1155
01:37:26,639 --> 01:37:37,199
» That's my answer
if we came to that conclusion that could

1156
01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:41,600
will offer
Goodwill offered to use their land to

1157
01:37:39,600 --> 01:37:44,639
their choice. My goodness, I thought
this was the United States.

1158
01:37:42,719 --> 01:37:50,560
» The judge, which the judge specifically
said was our it was up to us and unless

1159
01:37:48,480 --> 01:37:54,480
we allowed that that it would not be
allowed to use any motorcycle on the

1160
01:37:52,239 --> 01:37:57,440
property. Correct.
>> Okay.

1161
01:37:55,920 --> 01:38:01,520
» All right. Gentleman's time's expired.
I'm going to go to

1162
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:06,639
say Mr. Reinhardt or Reinhardt. Uh
>> Dr. Reinhardt. Um yeah, Dr. Philip

1163
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:09,280
Reinhardt. Um, so I think this is a good
start. I think it's good that you guys

1164
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:14,320
are trying to get these kids back to
riding. I think it's pretty aware that

1165
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:17,600
this area has a drug problem and keeping
kids off of drugs. I mean, I don't know

1166
01:38:16,480 --> 01:38:21,360
if you guys know, we have methadone
clinics here. We have overdoses left and

1167
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:26,480
right. Half of my graduating class is
addicted to something or in recovery.

1168
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:30,880
Um, these kind of sports will keep these
kids off of those kind of problems in

1169
01:38:28,880 --> 01:38:34,320
society. So, I think allowing them is a
good first start. But I do share the

1170
01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:38,800
kind of concern that this is somebody's
private property. Dictating who is

1171
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:41,920
welcome on that property to do what is
kind of an overreach in my opinion. I

1172
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:45,440
wouldn't come to your property and say,
"Hey, you know, you can't have somebody

1173
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:49,440
over 21 mowing your lawn next to my
property mine." Right? Uh and even if

1174
01:38:47,679 --> 01:38:52,480
they did want to start a business, I I
think there's a major problem where

1175
01:38:51,280 --> 01:38:55,840
they're going to be restricting property
rights for people that want to develop

1176
01:38:53,679 --> 01:39:02,000
businesses uh because a neighbor doesn't
like it, right?

1177
01:38:59,199 --> 01:39:06,960
Um, you know, I live right near Shauny
Mountain. I have to hear a worring

1178
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:10,639
noise, you know, all winter long from
snowblowers. I would never come in and

1179
01:39:09,119 --> 01:39:13,679
say, "Hey, as a annoyed neighbor, I have
the authority to come and tell you guys

1180
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:17,520
you can't run a business there." Because
I recognize the benefit to the

1181
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:21,440
community. And I think the same thing
happens here. So, like I said, I I I I'm

1182
01:39:20,159 --> 01:39:25,040
happy that you guys are moving forward
with something to at least get these

1183
01:39:23,199 --> 01:39:27,920
kids to have some sort of positive
outlet that they could do with their

1184
01:39:26,239 --> 01:39:31,600
life. I think you're still extending
your authority far beyond what it should

1185
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:35,360
be. Regardless of what a court may say,
America is built on life, liberty, and

1186
01:39:33,440 --> 01:39:37,360
property, right? That's the decisions
are the things that the government

1187
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:41,280
you're supposed to protect people's
access to do the things that they want

1188
01:39:38,639 --> 01:39:44,480
with those three things. Um, and I think
there's a lot of local tyranny happening

1189
01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:48,840
here, keeping a family from using their
property.

1190
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:48,840
» Thank

1191
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:58,400
go ahead, Terry.
>> Hi, my name is Terry Vanza Martin. I

1192
01:39:56,239 --> 01:40:04,639
live in Chestnut Hill Township. I'm
going to be 70 years old this year. I

1193
01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:10,560
wanted you to know that I in my day
would go to snowmobile grass races at

1194
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:15,760
East Straburg airport. So, I'm really
familiar with the area. I was president

1195
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:24,239
of our homeowner association from 1999
to 2003. I'm a mother of 10. Um, I am a

1196
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:28,800
woman that uh was an involved president.
that we had a lot of kids playing

1197
01:40:25,679 --> 01:40:35,360
basketball at our recreation center and
they were like my kids and I loved them

1198
01:40:31,360 --> 01:40:40,960
and I had an older son that had
I was here. Okay. But some of the kids

1199
01:40:38,159 --> 01:40:45,199
parents had to commute. So I'm going to
tell you that within a 1 to two mile

1200
01:40:43,199 --> 01:40:52,560
radius
15 of those kids are dead.

1201
01:40:49,440 --> 01:40:58,000
By the time my son was 44, he never used
drugs or alcohol. He had three heart

1202
01:40:55,360 --> 01:41:04,480
attacks because he had to carry the
coffins

1203
01:41:00,639 --> 01:41:07,840
of his friends. And in August, I had a
client that was 26 that committed

1204
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:11,679
suicide.
And in September, I was asked to check

1205
01:41:09,840 --> 01:41:16,159
on my neighbor's son, Johnny, the one
that used to ride his ATVs up and down

1206
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:20,960
the road and get yelled at.
And when me and the state police officer

1207
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:26,719
walked in to do a well-being check, I
turned the corner. He was dead on the

1208
01:41:22,639 --> 01:41:32,400
floor. This is Johnny, okay? He's 26
year old man with two kids, but he was

1209
01:41:29,440 --> 01:41:38,239
dead. Same kid that used to got yelled
at when he was riding his ATV.

1210
01:41:35,199 --> 01:41:41,360
And uh
I'm just saying there's got to be a

1211
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:48,719
middle ground. And that we have to
remember this is private property. But

1212
01:41:43,920 --> 01:41:53,679
it grieves my soul personally to see
this. These kids aren't going to stay

1213
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:57,840
little long. My kids grew up. My kids
grew up

1214
01:41:56,000 --> 01:42:01,119
and they grew up real quick and these
kids aren't going to be little long. And

1215
01:41:59,440 --> 01:42:05,600
boy, I'll tell you, I know the judge
ruled one way, but we're really pushing

1216
01:42:03,760 --> 01:42:10,960
the line with overreach with the
government. I want you to know I so much

1217
01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:16,080
appreciate your offer
um to these people, but

1218
01:42:13,679 --> 01:42:21,119
you know, it changed me forever. I drive
PSO's basketball courts. They're not

1219
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:25,360
there. They're dead.
Thank you for listening.

1220
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:31,520
» Thank you, Terry. We appreciate your
comment.

1221
01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:36,480
» I wonder am I able to talk?
>> Yes, Tammy. Go ahead.

1222
01:42:33,600 --> 01:42:41,760
Actually, I just have a question, two
questions for the supervisors.

1223
01:42:39,280 --> 01:42:50,080
Um, I wonder what your process is when
somebody applies for a job. What do you

1224
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:57,040
require? I mean, as far as is experience
in that. The other question is, how do

1225
01:42:52,480 --> 01:43:03,199
you feel if someone did apply for a job
and had to bring their um application

1226
01:43:00,560 --> 01:43:07,679
back because they were harassed on
social media,

1227
01:43:05,360 --> 01:43:12,639
which we kind of know that that has
happened. I want to know your feelings

1228
01:43:10,239 --> 01:43:19,040
on that because it does reflect the
township and a lot of the residents

1229
01:43:16,239 --> 01:43:25,840
um are concerned about that. So I
wondered if you had any comment.

1230
01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:29,440
» You want to pause your camera? I just
>> Hold on, Katie. You can have your own

1231
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:35,199
comment, but I'm not going to do
>> individual individual response to her,

1232
01:43:32,480 --> 01:43:38,880
but Tammy, I I I share your perspective
and I think you know that we spoke

1233
01:43:36,480 --> 01:43:44,639
earlier today and you know, I I will let
my two colleagues speak for themselves.

1234
01:43:41,440 --> 01:43:49,679
Um but at least for the appointments of
of various commissions and whatnot um

1235
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:55,280
everyone had to submit a resume or cover
letter etc. And then they were

1236
01:43:51,920 --> 01:43:59,360
interviewed by Alex uh extensively I
think in in most cases and then

1237
01:43:57,600 --> 01:44:03,920
recommendations ultimately made to the
board uh at least with the information

1238
01:44:02,480 --> 01:44:09,440
all the information a couple of weeks
ago. So that's that's all I can say, but

1239
01:44:06,639 --> 01:44:12,719
I'll I'll defer to supervisors Alber and
Levvenheim if they have other comments

1240
01:44:11,119 --> 01:44:18,000
that they wanted to [clears throat] to
say. And and let me just please say that

1241
01:44:14,960 --> 01:44:20,560
I don't want this to become
>> I agree, Ron.

1242
01:44:19,040 --> 01:44:24,639
» Oh,
>> I'm saying I don't want this to be, you

1243
01:44:22,239 --> 01:44:29,840
know, call response, but if if you so
choose one, you know, so chose to

1244
01:44:26,320 --> 01:44:31,760
respond, you can. But I'm going to, you
know,

1245
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:38,880
» I don't have any comments on that.
>> Okay. Nothing. I'll respond and then um

1246
01:44:35,040 --> 01:44:44,960
I think u I know the the uh person in
question you're talking about and I had

1247
01:44:41,119 --> 01:44:50,480
never seen any u any uh applications
resume submitted and then I heard that

1248
01:44:47,679 --> 01:44:57,920
this individual had withdrawn that's all
I know and it's like you know if you

1249
01:44:53,520 --> 01:45:04,639
don't want the position fine but um uh I
can't comment on why or or what the

1250
01:45:01,679 --> 01:45:10,199
process was only that the application
was withdrawn and was no longer under

1251
01:45:07,199 --> 01:45:10,199
consideration.

1252
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:17,920
» Well, I mean, I wasn't going to make
comment, but

1253
01:45:16,080 --> 01:45:22,320
» the supervisors are aware that this
person withdrew because they were

1254
01:45:19,119 --> 01:45:23,600
harassed and bullied online. Um,
>> yeah,

1255
01:45:22,719 --> 01:45:26,239
» that said,
>> yeah,

1256
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:29,119
» with the application went through his
prompt, so that person's not in

1257
01:45:27,440 --> 01:45:33,520
contention. Whether they would have been
or not is irrelevant. And by the way,

1258
01:45:31,040 --> 01:45:35,119
that statement that it was um whether or
not that's true or not, I don't know

1259
01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:39,840
that.
>> That's what I'm saying. You have no way

1260
01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:45,360
of knowing that was what the people, you
know, react on. So I I understand that.

1261
01:45:42,639 --> 01:45:49,600
So Tammy, anything else? You have uh two
minutes that Katie, I'll get you in in a

1262
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:54,480
moment, but
I just wanted to know the response of

1263
01:45:51,679 --> 01:46:00,480
that because I'm, you know, it concerns
me. It concerns me that [snorts]

1264
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:04,560
this township I feel is being bullied
lately and that's not how you make

1265
01:46:02,960 --> 01:46:10,000
decisions
and and a lot of the residents feel that

1266
01:46:07,040 --> 01:46:13,600
way. So I just want to make you aware of
that.

1267
01:46:12,159 --> 01:46:20,080
Thank you.
>> I appreciate it. Thank you Tammy.

1268
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:26,639
» Okay.
I'd like to also state that um and it is

1269
01:46:23,600 --> 01:46:32,800
available on all of the YouTube um
township meetings that I have also been

1270
01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:39,840
harassed and bullied
by certain members of the township

1271
01:46:35,840 --> 01:46:44,800
that I will not name and I did not
withdraw my application.

1272
01:46:42,480 --> 01:46:51,440
At first, certain people were very for
me and then they found out where I lived

1273
01:46:48,639 --> 01:46:58,159
and then I was harassed and bullied
online. It is available.

1274
01:46:55,360 --> 01:47:06,000
You can all see it on any of the YouTube
videos

1275
01:47:01,040 --> 01:47:11,040
and I did not withdraw my application.
So, if somebody else decided they

1276
01:47:09,199 --> 01:47:16,400
couldn't handle the heat and they got
out of the kitchen,

1277
01:47:13,040 --> 01:47:23,520
I feel like my apologies,
but I stood here

1278
01:47:19,119 --> 01:47:29,520
and I withheld it. Okay, back.
>> Any other

1279
01:47:26,239 --> 01:47:30,880
entertain motion to adjurnn?
>> Second.

1280
01:47:30,320 --> 01:47:36,080
» All right.
>> All motion to motion by Mr. there.

1281
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:39,080
Second by all in favor
>> I3

1282
01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:44,199
Thank you everyone.