1 00:00:00,860 --> 00:00:01,520 Hi, I'm 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:03,880 Kevin Morrissey, a member of the 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:06,780 Solebury Board of Supervisors. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,680 Before I get into my introduction, I just would like to make just a real quick 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:13,200 comment 6 00:00:14,620 --> 00:00:17,140 concerning an article in the Bucks County Herald 7 00:00:18,380 --> 00:00:18,900 this week. 8 00:00:21,140 --> 00:00:24,840 It was entitled, "North Wales Water Authority Plans to 9 00:00:24,940 --> 00:00:28,700 Place Storage Tank on Solebury Open 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,200 Space." At very least, it's misleading. 11 00:00:32,381 --> 00:00:34,720 We have not made any sort of decision like that. 12 00:00:34,820 --> 00:00:38,500 We requested North Wales to contact the 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:39,720 affected communities 14 00:00:40,780 --> 00:00:44,300 and find out what their feedback is, and then for North Wales to come back and 15 00:00:44,660 --> 00:00:48,380 talk to us about what that is. So the affected communities are Fox Run, 16 00:00:48,620 --> 00:00:51,500 North Pointe, Ingram Mills, Logan Square, 17 00:00:53,060 --> 00:00:56,120 and Hermitage communities. So anyway, there's that. 18 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,340 I need to mention that a gathering such as this is not automatic. 19 00:01:00,980 --> 00:01:02,500 It's not magical. 20 00:01:03,420 --> 00:01:06,940 It takes quite a bit of effort to coordinate, and the credit 21 00:01:07,460 --> 00:01:11,340 really goes to Solebury Township manager, Chris 22 00:01:11,420 --> 00:01:14,190 Gargus, and his staff and consultants for doing the 23 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:18,020 logistics for all this. I'd also like to 24 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,300 thank you for coming. There are many 25 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:22,120 temptations, 26 00:01:23,180 --> 00:01:25,540 many obligations. We all have tight schedules. 27 00:01:26,020 --> 00:01:29,240 We're pulling it all sorts of different ways, and I appreciate you coming tonight. 28 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,760 The overriding question before us is, why do any of this at all? 29 00:01:35,540 --> 00:01:37,190 Why talk about attainable housing? 30 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,780 And frankly, it's a topic 31 00:01:41,820 --> 00:01:42,040 that 32 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,280 introduced by residents, not infrequently, in a variety of 33 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:47,300 circumstances. 34 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,700 I've had conversations in Giant and McCaffrey's and all sorts of places. 35 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:55,700 And 36 00:01:57,740 --> 00:02:00,500 frankly, some are supportive and some aren't supportive. 37 00:02:01,140 --> 00:02:04,500 But it is a popular topic in the community. 38 00:02:06,620 --> 00:02:10,400 And before we go any further, I'd like to just spend a few 39 00:02:10,461 --> 00:02:13,620 moments outlining what was discussed at the first 40 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:15,820 Attainable Housing 41 00:02:16,740 --> 00:02:18,500 Forum, which was April 9th. 42 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,880 There, we discussed a wide range of topics, 43 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,440 which included representatives from Habitat for Humanity, 44 00:02:28,940 --> 00:02:32,340 Bucks County, as well as Middle Atlantic Housing Development. 45 00:02:32,780 --> 00:02:36,700 We also talked about tiny houses, ADUs, accessory 46 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,060 dwelling units. Those are things that-- 47 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,860 Well, a common example would be maybe converted garage or barn or 48 00:02:46,300 --> 00:02:48,740 some other existing structure, or even a new structure. 49 00:02:49,260 --> 00:02:52,540 Additionally, we talked about a variety of architectural types. 50 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,200 Throughout the discussion, we invited feedback from the audience. 51 00:02:58,820 --> 00:02:59,220 And 52 00:03:00,540 --> 00:03:01,900 why have a second forum 53 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:04,320 concerning attainable housing? 54 00:03:05,300 --> 00:03:06,420 Well, after the first 55 00:03:07,460 --> 00:03:07,860 forum, 56 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,180 we really did have quite a bit of feedback, 57 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,960 emails, and personal conversations, and phone 58 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,900 calls, and it seemed residents had quite a bit to say about 59 00:03:19,940 --> 00:03:20,040 it. 60 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:21,320 So 61 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:27,040 reviewing community feedback is really what we do, and we really do, do that. 62 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,660 Currently, the township has about 12 different committees covering a wide 63 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,030 variety of topics, parks and rec, and 64 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,220 historical 65 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,720 architectural review, land preservation, all sorts of things. 66 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,020 And of course, the goal of all this is to develop 67 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:49,520 conclusions from all this, 68 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:51,840 and 69 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:54,920 we really try to get the best 70 00:03:55,820 --> 00:03:59,800 review of details that we can. None of us, none of the board are 71 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:01,140 experts in everything, and 72 00:04:01,940 --> 00:04:04,420 we're lucky we're experts in anything. 73 00:04:04,740 --> 00:04:04,800 I 74 00:04:05,900 --> 00:04:07,560 haven't really got the hang of dancing yet. 75 00:04:07,660 --> 00:04:08,980 I 76 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,519 don't know. That's something I'll have to work on. 77 00:04:15,860 --> 00:04:18,500 And additionally, tonight, we're also going to have representatives from the 78 00:04:18,601 --> 00:04:19,161 township 79 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:22,940 further describe zoning characteristics of Solebury. 80 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,240 It's not all the same, and it may not be clear at times. 81 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,580 So again, what we're trying to do here is, as we have in many other 82 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,080 parts of the township, we try to get the best 83 00:04:35,980 --> 00:04:38,860 feedback we can from the community and work off of that. 84 00:04:39,180 --> 00:04:43,080 As I said, we have all sorts of committees, and this is another effort to 85 00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:44,680 get community feedback. 86 00:04:47,220 --> 00:04:49,760 Hopefully, we'll have some good conversations tonight. 87 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,320 And I'd like to hand this off to Tom Kometa, who will be 88 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,540 coordinating our discussions tonight. 89 00:04:56,660 --> 00:05:00,430 Tom has worked with the township from 1987 to 90 00:05:00,460 --> 00:05:04,400 1991 as township planner, and again, has helped us with a 91 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,980 variety of planning projects since 92 00:05:07,380 --> 00:05:08,620 2024. 93 00:05:09,500 --> 00:05:13,440 Tom has 53 years of experience as township 94 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:13,840 planner 95 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,260 and has worked with 149 municipalities since 96 00:05:18,300 --> 00:05:21,540 1973. Tom, thank you for joining us. 97 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:22,840 Oh, thank you, Kevin. 98 00:05:23,740 --> 00:05:27,720 Since we have such a good group, I wanted to start off 99 00:05:28,220 --> 00:05:32,200 by passing the mic just real quick around the room and tell us 100 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,900 who you are, and let's say what road you live on. 101 00:05:36,260 --> 00:05:36,660 Thank you. 102 00:05:37,980 --> 00:05:40,060 Hi. I'm pretty loud without the mic. 103 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:41,420 Oh, you're good. Okay. 104 00:05:41,700 --> 00:05:45,520 My name is Christine Stefanaki. I live on Lakeview Drive 105 00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:47,040 in the Riverwoods community. 106 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,580 And a reminder, the mic is going to here as well. Thank you. 107 00:05:53,660 --> 00:05:57,400 Hi, I'm Peter Brusock. I live on Hillside Lane, close to 108 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:58,320 Phelps Mill. 109 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,600 Hi, I'm Helen Thai. I live on River Road close to Peter Brusock. 110 00:06:07,288 --> 00:06:09,968 Hannah Howe. I'm a Solebury School employee. 111 00:06:12,708 --> 00:06:15,728 Hi, Mitch Ardman on Stony Hill Road, near Aquitong. 112 00:06:17,848 --> 00:06:18,128 John. 113 00:06:22,128 --> 00:06:22,548 What's that? 114 00:06:22,728 --> 00:06:23,908 Why are you giving me the mic? 115 00:06:23,968 --> 00:06:24,148 Yeah. 116 00:06:25,728 --> 00:06:26,468 I have to say. 117 00:06:26,988 --> 00:06:27,248 You're in- 118 00:06:27,368 --> 00:06:28,228 John Francis. 119 00:06:29,468 --> 00:06:30,028 Supervisor. 120 00:06:30,808 --> 00:06:31,088 Right. 121 00:06:31,808 --> 00:06:33,208 Oh, Phillips Mill Road. 122 00:06:34,948 --> 00:06:35,328 Thank you. 123 00:06:35,508 --> 00:06:37,747 Hi, Susan McMahon, Silvertale Lane. 124 00:06:38,638 --> 00:06:38,638 Up. 125 00:06:38,648 --> 00:06:39,088 Preserve. 126 00:06:41,908 --> 00:06:42,028 It. 127 00:06:43,448 --> 00:06:45,388 Shannon Pendleton, Upper York and Green Hill. 128 00:06:46,388 --> 00:06:50,048 Thank you. And then for the panelists, let's start with Kate. 129 00:06:50,448 --> 00:06:54,048 Tell us who you are and all your titles with Solebury Township. 130 00:06:55,108 --> 00:06:58,058 Hi, everyone. My name's Kate Robison-Grubb, and I am Solebury's sustainability 131 00:06:58,108 --> 00:07:02,038 specialist. I also work closely with the EAC as their administrator, as well as 132 00:07:02,148 --> 00:07:04,628 the sustainability subcommittee. 133 00:07:04,688 --> 00:07:05,268 Thanks, Kate. 134 00:07:06,968 --> 00:07:10,868 Hello, my name is John Ives. I am the planning and zoning administrator, and I 135 00:07:10,908 --> 00:07:12,327 work in the planning and zoning department. 136 00:07:13,208 --> 00:07:16,188 Thank you, John. As I mentioned, I'm Kevin Morrissey. 137 00:07:16,248 --> 00:07:17,528 I'm on the board of supervisors, 138 00:07:18,408 --> 00:07:21,768 with John Francis and Mark Bombacker. 139 00:07:21,828 --> 00:07:23,628 I think he stepped out for a moment. He'll be back. 140 00:07:25,048 --> 00:07:26,868 And together we 141 00:07:27,908 --> 00:07:31,728 work with Chris Gargus through the whole process of this 142 00:07:31,768 --> 00:07:32,268 township. 143 00:07:33,688 --> 00:07:37,168 Hi, everybody. I'm Zach Zuber. I'm the zoning officer and also the director of 144 00:07:37,208 --> 00:07:37,938 planning and zoning. 145 00:07:38,708 --> 00:07:40,508 Very good. Thanks, Zach. So, 146 00:07:43,008 --> 00:07:46,938 basically what I wanted to do before each of 147 00:07:46,988 --> 00:07:47,948 the panelists 148 00:07:49,168 --> 00:07:53,048 takes a part of the program tonight is to reflect 149 00:07:53,128 --> 00:07:54,088 a little bit on 150 00:07:55,168 --> 00:07:55,948 what we heard 151 00:07:56,788 --> 00:07:59,048 April 9th at Housing Forum number one, 152 00:08:00,208 --> 00:08:00,988 and also 153 00:08:02,088 --> 00:08:03,308 to talk about what 154 00:08:04,348 --> 00:08:07,508 was the idea in organizing the agenda that we have for 155 00:08:07,608 --> 00:08:10,968 tonight. I suppose 156 00:08:11,028 --> 00:08:14,798 the most simplistic way to summarize is that 157 00:08:15,627 --> 00:08:19,197 in the about three weeks following the April 9th 158 00:08:19,708 --> 00:08:23,618 Housing Forum number one, we received a number of 159 00:08:24,368 --> 00:08:24,828 emails 160 00:08:26,148 --> 00:08:26,608 that 161 00:08:27,448 --> 00:08:30,988 commented on the takeaways that they had from the 162 00:08:31,048 --> 00:08:34,558 housing forum. And then the persons who weren't able to join us 163 00:08:35,528 --> 00:08:36,328 saw the 164 00:08:37,148 --> 00:08:41,048 video of the session, and then they also chimed 165 00:08:41,129 --> 00:08:41,928 in. 166 00:08:42,828 --> 00:08:44,188 My takeaway of 167 00:08:45,168 --> 00:08:46,528 what I read 168 00:08:47,428 --> 00:08:49,588 in the comments is that 169 00:08:51,008 --> 00:08:51,208 we 170 00:08:52,368 --> 00:08:55,788 raced through Housing Forum number one so quickly, 171 00:08:56,788 --> 00:08:56,988 that 172 00:08:57,808 --> 00:09:00,688 as our panel prepared for that, 173 00:09:01,588 --> 00:09:05,548 we just figured, well, we'll talk about zoning and different 174 00:09:05,608 --> 00:09:09,588 housing types and so forth, and everyone would 175 00:09:09,648 --> 00:09:11,788 absorb it in the same way that we had. 176 00:09:12,768 --> 00:09:16,128 But what we discovered from the emails is that the 177 00:09:16,148 --> 00:09:19,728 presentations that John and Zach had made were 178 00:09:19,848 --> 00:09:20,168 so 179 00:09:20,988 --> 00:09:21,788 complex, 180 00:09:22,608 --> 00:09:26,348 and perhaps for persons who hadn't looked at a zoning 181 00:09:26,408 --> 00:09:29,968 map or weren't familiar with which 182 00:09:30,008 --> 00:09:33,888 districts fell in which geographic areas of the township, they 183 00:09:33,968 --> 00:09:37,348 just needed more clarity. And they were courteous to say 184 00:09:39,288 --> 00:09:43,068 it was hard to follow and get into the 185 00:09:43,788 --> 00:09:47,628 detail with what John and Zach 186 00:09:47,708 --> 00:09:51,468 said. So fortunately, John and Zach did a deep dive 187 00:09:52,168 --> 00:09:54,208 and are going to talk about 188 00:09:55,168 --> 00:09:58,338 the same things that they mentioned at Housing Forum number one, 189 00:09:59,008 --> 00:10:02,748 but in a more focused way. And 190 00:10:02,788 --> 00:10:03,748 perhaps 191 00:10:04,868 --> 00:10:08,688 your email replies after this, and the ones from people who 192 00:10:08,848 --> 00:10:09,568 view the video 193 00:10:10,428 --> 00:10:14,368 will say, "That's it. They did it. We didn't quite 194 00:10:14,408 --> 00:10:18,088 understand what they had to say on April 9th, but now we really 195 00:10:18,148 --> 00:10:19,808 understand what they're talking about." 196 00:10:21,608 --> 00:10:25,408 The fact of the matter is, what John presented on 197 00:10:25,468 --> 00:10:26,208 April 9th 198 00:10:27,167 --> 00:10:30,128 is a very, I think, achievable number. 199 00:10:30,928 --> 00:10:34,388 That when we asked ourselves how would we move the needle 200 00:10:35,028 --> 00:10:38,828 if we wanted to on the idea of attainable housing, 201 00:10:40,608 --> 00:10:43,268 and we looked at 2030 and 2040. 202 00:10:44,148 --> 00:10:47,508 Even when you look at the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission 203 00:10:48,108 --> 00:10:50,288 population and housing forecasts, 204 00:10:52,028 --> 00:10:53,508 and we're in a growing region, 205 00:10:55,028 --> 00:10:55,168 that 206 00:10:56,808 --> 00:10:59,568 presumably less than 207 00:10:59,668 --> 00:11:01,968 100 dwelling units 208 00:11:03,528 --> 00:11:07,368 might be in the trajectory or forecast from the regional planning group. 209 00:11:08,308 --> 00:11:11,908 And so I think it's easy for us to just think about 210 00:11:13,908 --> 00:11:17,788 how certain zoning districts allow lot 211 00:11:17,828 --> 00:11:20,988 sizes that are achievable, and there could be a house here and house there, 212 00:11:22,048 --> 00:11:24,068 infill here and there. But 213 00:11:24,908 --> 00:11:28,868 what we pretty much tried to concentrate on, because as Kevin said, there 214 00:11:29,128 --> 00:11:30,938 are about 12 different committees, 215 00:11:31,748 --> 00:11:34,988 is as a housing committee, we wondered, 216 00:11:35,748 --> 00:11:36,028 are 217 00:11:37,548 --> 00:11:39,388 the right types of housing 218 00:11:40,488 --> 00:11:43,668 accessible and available to people who need them? 219 00:11:44,408 --> 00:11:47,748 So one of the exhibits that we had and talked about last time 220 00:11:48,428 --> 00:11:52,368 is this idea of the attainable housing transect shown 221 00:11:52,408 --> 00:11:56,168 on the screen. And the idea is it's not one size 222 00:11:56,228 --> 00:11:59,688 fits all, and there might be different 223 00:11:59,748 --> 00:12:02,768 solutions in the more rural to 224 00:12:02,788 --> 00:12:06,568 suburban to more urbanized area. And 225 00:12:06,648 --> 00:12:10,448 realize it's probably not until you get to New Hope Borough that 226 00:12:10,488 --> 00:12:14,128 you're in the area that this illustrative is 227 00:12:14,168 --> 00:12:18,044 showingThe black rectangles closer together, 228 00:12:18,764 --> 00:12:22,464 and it might be not until you're in Doylestown 229 00:12:22,504 --> 00:12:26,244 Borough that you're in the urban core area. 230 00:12:27,124 --> 00:12:27,324 But 231 00:12:28,544 --> 00:12:29,244 in any event, 232 00:12:31,944 --> 00:12:34,924 the graphic on the bottom tries to 233 00:12:34,984 --> 00:12:38,424 put in each of these baskets, 234 00:12:39,124 --> 00:12:43,054 potentially plausible housing types that wouldn't 235 00:12:43,104 --> 00:12:47,084 upset you. And the reason I say wouldn't upset you, because the second set 236 00:12:47,164 --> 00:12:48,324 of responses 237 00:12:49,164 --> 00:12:53,144 that we got in the email, and I'm just 238 00:12:53,224 --> 00:12:56,764 generalizing, is, "I moved from 239 00:12:56,804 --> 00:13:00,704 Bristol or Bensalem or other parts of Bucks 240 00:13:00,804 --> 00:13:03,324 County to Solebury. Hey, I love it here. 241 00:13:03,624 --> 00:13:07,144 I love the rural character. I love the ambiance of the place. 242 00:13:07,334 --> 00:13:09,264 I love all the preserved farms. 243 00:13:10,104 --> 00:13:13,324 I love the scenic values and the environment. 244 00:13:14,544 --> 00:13:15,444 I don't want 245 00:13:16,424 --> 00:13:16,724 to 246 00:13:17,644 --> 00:13:21,464 inject housing types that would give an imbalance 247 00:13:21,884 --> 00:13:22,544 to Solebury." 248 00:13:23,424 --> 00:13:24,564 And that was 249 00:13:25,384 --> 00:13:28,064 sort of a couple of other responses. 250 00:13:28,084 --> 00:13:29,134 We didn't hear those 251 00:13:29,944 --> 00:13:33,084 specifically on April 9th, but we saw them in the 252 00:13:33,124 --> 00:13:36,904 response. And then about another third of the 253 00:13:36,924 --> 00:13:40,704 responses were, "Good job. I'm glad that the township 254 00:13:40,804 --> 00:13:44,564 is wrestling with the subject." And as Kevin 255 00:13:44,604 --> 00:13:46,444 pointed out at the beginning last time, 256 00:13:47,444 --> 00:13:50,604 we didn't know if we were going to have housing forum two, 257 00:13:51,344 --> 00:13:54,304 and we don't know if we're going to have housing forum number three. 258 00:13:54,364 --> 00:13:55,384 It could be in the fall. 259 00:13:56,214 --> 00:14:00,084 And so tonight, we're here to talk about 260 00:14:00,144 --> 00:14:03,964 some of the things that we need to have more detail on and also to 261 00:14:04,004 --> 00:14:07,964 hear from you. And we have a part of the program as an exercise to 262 00:14:08,004 --> 00:14:11,824 get your opinion on these housing types. 263 00:14:11,884 --> 00:14:15,844 We realize that it's not a statistically valid representative sample. 264 00:14:15,924 --> 00:14:17,104 It's just a polling. 265 00:14:18,504 --> 00:14:18,724 But 266 00:14:19,904 --> 00:14:23,444 all the while, and whatever we hear you say, whatever 267 00:14:23,644 --> 00:14:26,764 notations we take, however we would review the tape, 268 00:14:28,204 --> 00:14:29,544 would pretty much decide 269 00:14:30,364 --> 00:14:34,294 that when we have our follow-up, we're going to say, what did we learn from 270 00:14:34,304 --> 00:14:35,764 housing forum number two? 271 00:14:36,624 --> 00:14:37,084 Does it 272 00:14:37,944 --> 00:14:39,744 lead to a third program? 273 00:14:40,624 --> 00:14:44,504 Does our panel then collectively write 274 00:14:44,624 --> 00:14:48,604 the notes of what we're doing? And we're also 275 00:14:48,684 --> 00:14:52,244 simultaneously working on an update to the Solebury Township 276 00:14:52,324 --> 00:14:56,224 Comprehensive Plan, and that has a future land 277 00:14:56,384 --> 00:15:00,364 use element, which is required to have a housing 278 00:15:00,464 --> 00:15:04,444 plan element. So the perfect timing of the housing forum 279 00:15:05,224 --> 00:15:09,084 and the comprehensive plan is that they're coming together at the same 280 00:15:09,164 --> 00:15:09,504 time. 281 00:15:12,164 --> 00:15:15,824 I told a couple stories September 15th when we had a 282 00:15:15,864 --> 00:15:18,004 public workshop on 283 00:15:18,964 --> 00:15:22,464 the comprehensive plan, not even knowing that there were going to be housing 284 00:15:22,584 --> 00:15:26,404 forums, about some of my experiences over the years 285 00:15:26,624 --> 00:15:30,303 in other municipalities. So about 25 years ago in West 286 00:15:30,324 --> 00:15:31,124 Chester Borough, 287 00:15:32,124 --> 00:15:35,704 they said, "So Tom, we need to embark on a attainable 288 00:15:35,764 --> 00:15:39,464 housing initiative. How might we do it?" And I said, 289 00:15:39,604 --> 00:15:43,244 "Forget about it. There's no attainable housing in West Chester now, and there will 290 00:15:43,264 --> 00:15:43,864 never be." 291 00:15:45,504 --> 00:15:49,194 Mostly because when my two children graduated from high school and 292 00:15:49,284 --> 00:15:53,014 college, they couldn't afford to move into West Chester, and in 293 00:15:53,064 --> 00:15:56,924 fact, they didn't. One moved to San Francisco and the other one 294 00:15:56,984 --> 00:16:00,904 moved to Manhattan, and basically, they stayed there for a long 295 00:16:00,984 --> 00:16:01,294 time 296 00:16:02,164 --> 00:16:05,164 in more attainable housing opportunities. 297 00:16:06,864 --> 00:16:07,584 In any event, 298 00:16:09,784 --> 00:16:13,444 we scratched our heads in West Chester and we said, "Well, what 299 00:16:13,544 --> 00:16:16,944 could we do?" And I found a 1912 300 00:16:17,024 --> 00:16:20,844 Sanborn insurance map that had identified 301 00:16:21,144 --> 00:16:23,624 92 carriage houses 302 00:16:24,684 --> 00:16:28,484 that were built in West Chester. So we hatched an idea 303 00:16:28,544 --> 00:16:31,944 called Historic Carriage House Overlay District. 304 00:16:32,774 --> 00:16:36,444 And in each of those that were mapped and that were then 305 00:16:37,484 --> 00:16:41,224 memorialized on a zoning overlay map, we would allow a 306 00:16:41,284 --> 00:16:44,104 second dwelling unit on a lot without subdivision. 307 00:16:44,704 --> 00:16:48,684 Or if the kids come back from college, you can kick them out and they can go live 308 00:16:48,724 --> 00:16:52,124 in the carriage house. Or if you are an 309 00:16:52,224 --> 00:16:53,764 artisan, a potter, 310 00:16:55,044 --> 00:16:57,544 good luck, Nagashima woodworker, 311 00:16:58,524 --> 00:17:00,024 or some craftsperson, 312 00:17:01,064 --> 00:17:04,124 you could have your business in this structure. 313 00:17:05,285 --> 00:17:08,754 Nancy Solomon, one of my neighbors, did clay board and 314 00:17:08,864 --> 00:17:12,364 pottery, and it's been wildly successful there. 315 00:17:12,904 --> 00:17:14,124 She could have never had 316 00:17:14,944 --> 00:17:18,904 that business enterprise in any other way, and it's in a 317 00:17:18,964 --> 00:17:20,104 residential district. 318 00:17:21,565 --> 00:17:22,664 Also in West Chester, 319 00:17:24,204 --> 00:17:27,934 we were decanted by the malls in the '70s and 320 00:17:27,964 --> 00:17:31,464 '80s, and the borough council came to me in 1995, 321 00:17:32,024 --> 00:17:34,824 where there was about 25% 322 00:17:34,884 --> 00:17:38,644 occupancy. Now there's 110% occupancy. 323 00:17:39,464 --> 00:17:43,024 And they said, "What's wrong with the picture?" And right at that time, 324 00:17:43,494 --> 00:17:47,284 the borough of West Chester had 1,250 square 325 00:17:47,424 --> 00:17:50,764 feet minimum lot area and an onerous parking 326 00:17:50,824 --> 00:17:54,504 requirement. So all of the second and third floors were 327 00:17:54,564 --> 00:17:54,984 vacant. 328 00:17:56,584 --> 00:17:57,184 And so 329 00:17:58,304 --> 00:18:02,164 we repealed the minimum 1,250 square foot per 330 00:18:02,204 --> 00:18:06,104 lot area, and we repealed the parking in the TC-1, Town Center-1 331 00:18:06,124 --> 00:18:06,624 District. 332 00:18:07,864 --> 00:18:11,424 And in the last 20 years, there have been about 160 333 00:18:11,484 --> 00:18:13,364 apartments in downtown West Chester. 334 00:18:14,224 --> 00:18:18,204 The West Chester University students walk downstairs to get their coffee or 335 00:18:18,524 --> 00:18:20,104 bubble tea or whatever is the 336 00:18:21,124 --> 00:18:25,004 hot itemAcai bowls. I don't even know how to say it, but 337 00:18:25,084 --> 00:18:26,424 anyway, it's hot. 338 00:18:27,424 --> 00:18:31,224 In Lower Gwynedd Township, they were concerned about 15 years ago 339 00:18:31,264 --> 00:18:32,264 about teardowns. 340 00:18:34,204 --> 00:18:37,964 And a lot of the houses built in the '40s and '50s were being torn 341 00:18:38,024 --> 00:18:41,884 down and in their words, they said that these McMansions were 342 00:18:41,894 --> 00:18:44,364 being built that were out of character and scale. 343 00:18:45,244 --> 00:18:49,224 So we then came up with an idea in some of the residential districts that if 344 00:18:49,264 --> 00:18:53,064 you left the house standing, we would bonus you by having two 345 00:18:53,164 --> 00:18:56,044 flag lots under certain design standards. 346 00:18:56,544 --> 00:19:00,284 So you could have two tiny homes on smaller lots than what the 347 00:19:00,364 --> 00:19:01,804 minimum lot area required. 348 00:19:03,844 --> 00:19:04,584 It was 349 00:19:05,404 --> 00:19:09,184 mildly successful. People still did the teardowns. 350 00:19:09,344 --> 00:19:13,144 A couple people took advantage of these bonus provisions 351 00:19:13,184 --> 00:19:17,064 where instead of tearing down the house and dividing the lot 352 00:19:17,104 --> 00:19:20,704 in two to have two homes, you could have three homes. Some people liked it. 353 00:19:21,624 --> 00:19:25,524 In 2006 in Charlestown, we did five TND overlay 354 00:19:25,604 --> 00:19:28,224 districts in Spring Oak and Duvall. 355 00:19:28,964 --> 00:19:30,884 They're the slip ramp on the turnpike. 356 00:19:31,364 --> 00:19:35,264 We allowed the granny flat or a mother-in-law suite above 357 00:19:35,304 --> 00:19:36,564 the garage. 358 00:19:37,764 --> 00:19:39,124 Only three 359 00:19:39,944 --> 00:19:43,444 of the 120 homes at Spring Oak took advantage of it, 360 00:19:44,024 --> 00:19:47,584 but still, we made provisions in these examples. 361 00:19:48,364 --> 00:19:52,004 So the lesson learned for me that relates to 362 00:19:52,024 --> 00:19:52,884 Solebury is 363 00:19:54,584 --> 00:19:58,564 memorialized in what I said at the housing forum, number one, which is, is 364 00:19:58,584 --> 00:20:02,144 there low-hanging fruit? Are there some sleeper 365 00:20:02,204 --> 00:20:05,704 opportunities where there could be housing 366 00:20:05,764 --> 00:20:08,624 types that are 367 00:20:08,724 --> 00:20:12,644 not troubling to most people, whether you're 368 00:20:12,704 --> 00:20:16,504 converting a barn that might be for farm work or housing, 369 00:20:17,264 --> 00:20:19,344 creating an accessory dwelling unit. 370 00:20:20,024 --> 00:20:23,664 And you've probably all read in the newspaper about so many different 371 00:20:23,724 --> 00:20:25,424 states that have that initiative, 372 00:20:26,964 --> 00:20:30,224 and the smaller home, tiny home movement. 373 00:20:30,984 --> 00:20:34,464 And then, in 1991 when we rewrote the Uwchlan 374 00:20:34,524 --> 00:20:38,324 Township zoning ordinance cover to cover, of all things, we 375 00:20:38,364 --> 00:20:42,264 did live-work units. And if you go to Eagleview at 376 00:20:42,284 --> 00:20:46,164 the Downingtown, West Chester exit of the turnpike, you 377 00:20:46,224 --> 00:20:47,464 find 12 of them. 378 00:20:48,304 --> 00:20:48,484 And 379 00:20:49,504 --> 00:20:53,284 the Eagleview pharmacist has his business downstairs. 380 00:20:53,324 --> 00:20:55,504 He lives upstairs. A yoga studio, 381 00:20:57,564 --> 00:20:59,164 rug salesperson, 382 00:21:01,544 --> 00:21:03,104 real estate office, what have you. 383 00:21:03,664 --> 00:21:07,404 And some of that is achieved in the illustrations that 384 00:21:07,424 --> 00:21:10,554 are listed on the right side of 385 00:21:11,484 --> 00:21:12,043 mixed use. 386 00:21:14,064 --> 00:21:17,464 I was asked in 1993 to give a 387 00:21:17,504 --> 00:21:19,944 presentation on smart growth, 388 00:21:20,784 --> 00:21:24,584 and I claimed that between the Delaware and 389 00:21:24,624 --> 00:21:28,304 Susquehanna Rivers on Route 30, coming out of 390 00:21:28,324 --> 00:21:31,444 Philadelphia to Lancaster, that there would be no 391 00:21:31,664 --> 00:21:32,804 farmland left, 392 00:21:34,364 --> 00:21:38,224 or open space left, by 2050, except 393 00:21:38,284 --> 00:21:38,544 for 394 00:21:39,444 --> 00:21:43,364 federal, county, and state parks, and Amish 395 00:21:43,504 --> 00:21:47,084 and Mennonite farmland. That's in the mid-'90s. 396 00:21:48,004 --> 00:21:50,104 And there's probably about 397 00:21:51,644 --> 00:21:55,224 300 development entities in the Delaware 398 00:21:55,324 --> 00:21:57,564 Valley who have deep 399 00:21:59,084 --> 00:22:03,044 personnel who are always searching for the next farm to 400 00:22:03,084 --> 00:22:06,904 develop and build houses on. And I think on 401 00:22:06,944 --> 00:22:09,524 balance, a lot of communities like Solebury 402 00:22:10,344 --> 00:22:14,044 lament the loss of open space and love to see the 403 00:22:14,084 --> 00:22:14,744 farmland 404 00:22:16,004 --> 00:22:18,164 that you have, like here in Solebury. 405 00:22:19,044 --> 00:22:22,044 So the question that we've been asking ourselves is, 406 00:22:22,944 --> 00:22:24,744 what is the goal 407 00:22:25,644 --> 00:22:29,004 and what can we learn from population and housing forecasts? 408 00:22:30,024 --> 00:22:33,904 What does the zoning allow, and are there some 409 00:22:33,964 --> 00:22:35,124 sleeper opportunities? 410 00:22:36,964 --> 00:22:40,884 What do the demographics tell us, and does it move us 411 00:22:40,944 --> 00:22:44,524 in one direction or not? And 412 00:22:44,584 --> 00:22:48,464 another is, are there any other creative 413 00:22:48,804 --> 00:22:51,153 solutions that we're not thinking about? 414 00:22:51,874 --> 00:22:54,924 And today, I was telling a story about in the 415 00:22:54,944 --> 00:22:57,844 1970s in Chester County, when 416 00:22:58,784 --> 00:23:00,884 a certain member of the family passed, 417 00:23:01,764 --> 00:23:05,664 the husband or wife occasionally would donate the farm to 418 00:23:05,704 --> 00:23:07,584 the municipality that had a farmhouse. 419 00:23:08,764 --> 00:23:11,324 And the municipalities would come to me and say, "Well, what are we going to do 420 00:23:11,364 --> 00:23:13,324 with that farmhouse?" And I would say, 421 00:23:14,524 --> 00:23:16,344 "Let's convert it to a 422 00:23:17,164 --> 00:23:20,864 viable dwelling unit and offer for free 423 00:23:21,084 --> 00:23:24,504 to live in it for the occupant who's going to cut the 424 00:23:24,564 --> 00:23:28,364 grass and shovel the snow, plow the snow, prune the 425 00:23:28,424 --> 00:23:30,164 shrubs, whatever, 426 00:23:31,484 --> 00:23:34,804 be like a town watch eyes on the property." 427 00:23:35,394 --> 00:23:39,384 And even to this day, Valley Creek Park in East Whiteland does have such a 428 00:23:39,504 --> 00:23:39,804 unit. 429 00:23:40,724 --> 00:23:43,994 I also thought as I parked the car on the side of the township building, 430 00:23:44,824 --> 00:23:48,764 if it's five or 10 years from now, and not a darn thing has 431 00:23:48,844 --> 00:23:52,504 changed, could the township put one 432 00:23:52,564 --> 00:23:56,244 house in that park? And on a snowy 433 00:23:56,364 --> 00:24:00,004 night, when Chris doesn't have to drive all the way 434 00:24:00,064 --> 00:24:03,324 cross-country, he has a place to stay. 435 00:24:04,044 --> 00:24:04,264 Or 436 00:24:05,404 --> 00:24:06,304 at properties 437 00:24:07,704 --> 00:24:08,824 like at schools, 438 00:24:09,824 --> 00:24:12,984 could there be housing? When I grew up in Manayunk, 439 00:24:13,804 --> 00:24:16,604 there were a lot of factories along Manayunk Canal. 440 00:24:18,364 --> 00:24:18,604 And 441 00:24:19,584 --> 00:24:21,204 basically, I told the story 442 00:24:22,984 --> 00:24:25,004 recently to New Hope borough officials. 443 00:24:25,864 --> 00:24:29,320 So-When I got my license at age 444 00:24:29,380 --> 00:24:33,180 16, what you did in Manayunk at the time is you got 445 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:33,760 your best 446 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,780 girlfriend on a Sunday, and you drove to New Hope, 447 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,720 and we would walk along the Delaware Canal. 448 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,580 I did my undergraduate thesis at Penn State for a historic renewal 449 00:24:45,660 --> 00:24:48,390 plan of the Manayunk Canal, informed by what 450 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:50,710 you all did in New Hope. 451 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,980 And along the canal in Manayunk were the lock keepers' 452 00:24:56,660 --> 00:25:00,600 quarters. In Manayunk, where I grew up, with all the factories along the 453 00:25:00,620 --> 00:25:04,260 Schuylkill River and the Manayunk Canal, there was watchman's 454 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:04,860 quarters. 455 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,710 There used to be, in the '50s and '60s, boarding houses 456 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,700 allowed in ordinances. They've all been repealed. 457 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:15,620 So, I think there are 458 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:18,020 maybe 20 459 00:25:19,220 --> 00:25:22,960 ideas that we could cultivate. We don't want to 460 00:25:23,020 --> 00:25:26,840 overshoot the mark. There's probably only three to five to 461 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,580 six of them that would really be easy to achieve 462 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,660 in Solebury. But on the strength of having these housing 463 00:25:34,780 --> 00:25:36,160 forums, we could pretty much say 464 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:37,240 we 465 00:25:38,180 --> 00:25:41,680 tried to leave no stone unturned, unveil 466 00:25:42,140 --> 00:25:45,980 possibilities. What did we learn, and what are we going to do 467 00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:49,880 about it? Because the most frustrating thing for you would be to come back here in 468 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,840 the fall, if we have housing three, and we don't have any answers 469 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,860 for you, we don't have any suggestions for you, and you would say, "This is 470 00:25:57,900 --> 00:26:01,670 a complete waste of time. What the heck did we do?" So, I think sincerely, 471 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,700 tonight we're going to listen to what you say, and we're going to 472 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,520 process it, and then come back with some, ta-da, 473 00:26:10,020 --> 00:26:11,780 here's what we think we're going to do about it. 474 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,580 Now, in that regard, 475 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,260 John, we said as we were planning these sessions, 476 00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:23,120 what is the demand? What is the demographic and housing 477 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:23,900 situations? 478 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,860 What weaknesses do we have? What are the 479 00:26:28,980 --> 00:26:30,380 issues? So, 480 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,180 going beyond what you did 481 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,420 last time, can you do a deeper dive and then 482 00:26:40,020 --> 00:26:41,000 highlight 483 00:26:42,820 --> 00:26:46,200 some of the items in your demographic analysis? 484 00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:50,580 So Kate, that next one is going to be for Zach, who's going to follow 485 00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:54,300 John. But let's go to John's demographics. 486 00:26:58,840 --> 00:26:59,940 Yeah. We're going to go 487 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,120 to that one and then Zach's going to-- There we go. 488 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,040 So admittedly, John, you did a deeper dive than any of us 489 00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:14,040 have the brain bandwidth to process in a short 490 00:27:14,140 --> 00:27:18,080 time tonight. So, if you could touch on the high points, that would 491 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,700 be great. And then, I think because we have such a 492 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,700 good small group, John, would you mind if when you're 493 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,120 saying if somebody goes to raise their hand, "Hey, what do you mean by that?" Would 494 00:27:29,140 --> 00:27:30,520 you mind if people interrupted you? 495 00:27:31,700 --> 00:27:34,200 Okay. So why don't you take it from there and 496 00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:38,880 take us through your deeper dive on this subject. 497 00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:40,340 Thank you. 498 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,080 Great. Thanks, Tom. 499 00:27:48,380 --> 00:27:49,540 Sure. You're welcome. 500 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,140 And if I can't do a deeper dive, I will probably defer to Zach, Kevin, or 501 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:54,500 Kate. 502 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:56,020 So, 503 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,360 this part of the presentation is an overview and builds upon the previous 504 00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:07,000 demographic information that was presented at the first forum. 505 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,460 But it does delve a little deeper into the possibility of establishing a 506 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,150 need or interest to locate attainable housing in 507 00:28:15,180 --> 00:28:19,009 Solebury. It is for discussion purposes and to 508 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,450 gauge interest in attainable housing opportunities. 509 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,900 So according to the public workshop input for the new comprehensive plan 510 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,380 that is underway that Tom mentioned, 511 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,880 Solebury's strengths remain clear. 512 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,380 Residents value Solebury's location and scenic beauty. 513 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,100 They value community safety. 514 00:28:41,180 --> 00:28:44,680 They value the quality of life and the quality of education in the township. 515 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,620 So, we felt in order to evaluate the attainable housing, we posed 516 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,700 a series of questions to be asked. 517 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,340 These questions look at aging trends, housing 518 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,100 affordability, 519 00:28:57,900 --> 00:29:00,450 workforce alignment, housing production, 520 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,400 and ultimately, housing types that may be missing. 521 00:29:04,429 --> 00:29:07,600 All of which will be a part of the overall common discussion tonight. 522 00:29:11,820 --> 00:29:13,160 Is Solebury aging? 523 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,780 The numbers on this slide show that Solebury is aging, with a median age 524 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,040 of 54.2 years old. 525 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,020 That number is substantially above county, state, and national 526 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:27,800 benchmarks. 527 00:29:29,180 --> 00:29:33,060 Additionally, this slide shows that 11% of the residents are between the 528 00:29:33,100 --> 00:29:36,860 ages of 20 and 40, which is commonly one of the targeted 529 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,760 attainable housing age range that typically drives 530 00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:43,380 demands for starter homes and rentals. 531 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:45,440 On the flip side, 532 00:29:46,580 --> 00:29:50,340 just over 51% of the population is 50 to 80 years old, 533 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,800 indicating that the senior population is growing and will be in the near 534 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:55,340 future. 535 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,270 Many older residents may eventually seek smaller, 536 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,240 accessible, lower-maintenance housing options while remaining in the community. 537 00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:09,870 So these numbers are not negative trends in any way, but do show that 538 00:30:09,940 --> 00:30:12,340 Solebury is a desirable community to live in. 539 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,420 But it does raise the question about long-term demographic 540 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:17,060 balance 541 00:30:18,020 --> 00:30:22,000 with an underrepresented population between the ages of 20 542 00:30:22,010 --> 00:30:22,600 and 40. 543 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,680 The next question becomes whether younger households can realistically 544 00:30:28,740 --> 00:30:29,380 enter the housing 545 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:35,126 market.And 546 00:30:35,176 --> 00:30:37,876 many of these numbers were emphasized in the first forum. 547 00:30:39,016 --> 00:30:42,696 So according to the census, the median household value is 548 00:30:42,756 --> 00:30:44,096 almost 800,000. 549 00:30:45,236 --> 00:30:49,056 And the latest typical home value, according to Zillow, is just 550 00:30:49,116 --> 00:30:53,016 under 955,000. In fact, the median list price 551 00:30:53,096 --> 00:30:55,976 of a home that 552 00:30:56,836 --> 00:31:00,796 sold in Solebury as of April 26 was just over 1.5 million, 553 00:31:00,916 --> 00:31:01,796 according to Zillow. 554 00:31:02,956 --> 00:31:06,496 According to the census, the median household income is 555 00:31:06,506 --> 00:31:08,776 $195,000 plus. 556 00:31:09,636 --> 00:31:13,096 The gross average monthly rents between the census and Zillow range 557 00:31:13,136 --> 00:31:16,196 between $2,500 to $3,000 a month. 558 00:31:17,556 --> 00:31:21,536 Taking into account these numbers, home prices are four to five times 559 00:31:21,596 --> 00:31:23,896 greater than the median household income. 560 00:31:26,056 --> 00:31:29,746 Of the total number of homes in the township, 93% are 561 00:31:29,776 --> 00:31:30,696 owner-occupied, 562 00:31:31,516 --> 00:31:35,196 and single-family detached homes comprise 80% of the total 563 00:31:35,236 --> 00:31:37,076 housing stock in the township. 564 00:31:38,296 --> 00:31:39,856 So what are some of the takeaways here? 565 00:31:41,196 --> 00:31:45,086 Home values and rents have risen to levels to create significant barriers for 566 00:31:45,116 --> 00:31:47,776 first-time homebuyers and moderate-income homebuyers. 567 00:31:48,756 --> 00:31:51,956 The housing market is overwhelmingly ownership-based, 568 00:31:53,016 --> 00:31:55,856 leaving limited rental or entry-level pathways. 569 00:31:57,216 --> 00:32:00,796 Even households with strong incomes may face difficulty 570 00:32:00,876 --> 00:32:04,736 purchasing locally without accumulated equity or 571 00:32:04,776 --> 00:32:05,636 dual incomes. 572 00:32:06,726 --> 00:32:10,576 This issue affects multiple groups, young families, single-income 573 00:32:10,656 --> 00:32:14,356 households, local employees, and even seniors looking to 574 00:32:14,396 --> 00:32:15,116 downsize. 575 00:32:16,676 --> 00:32:20,646 So this affordability challenge becomes even more visible when compared with 576 00:32:20,656 --> 00:32:21,856 the local workforce 577 00:32:23,036 --> 00:32:23,446 numbers. 578 00:32:27,116 --> 00:32:30,776 This slide shows the various employment sectors that 579 00:32:30,816 --> 00:32:33,046 support the local economy throughout the township. 580 00:32:34,556 --> 00:32:35,456 That'll get there first. 581 00:32:37,716 --> 00:32:39,656 And what the average salary ranges are. 582 00:32:40,396 --> 00:32:44,016 It shows that professional and technical services, jobs in finance, 583 00:32:44,176 --> 00:32:45,475 technology, and business 584 00:32:46,656 --> 00:32:50,396 is the highest employment sector with salaries that range from 95,000 to 585 00:32:50,896 --> 00:32:51,836 160,000. 586 00:32:53,236 --> 00:32:56,906 The highest salary bands, which include professional and technical services and 587 00:32:57,016 --> 00:32:58,036 finance and real estate 588 00:32:58,876 --> 00:32:59,156 have 589 00:33:00,076 --> 00:33:03,956 what's called a possibility to purchase a home in Solebury, most like 590 00:33:03,996 --> 00:33:06,496 if the family includes dual incomes. 591 00:33:07,936 --> 00:33:11,156 And the other employment groups that include arts, tourism, 592 00:33:11,896 --> 00:33:15,586 recreation, education, retail, hospitality, and construction, 593 00:33:16,336 --> 00:33:20,086 have lower earning salaries, therefore more difficult to purchase housing. 594 00:33:21,116 --> 00:33:23,136 So the biggest takeaway is the growing gap 595 00:33:24,216 --> 00:33:27,286 between housing costs and workforce earnings, 596 00:33:28,096 --> 00:33:30,606 which creates pressure on workforce retention, 597 00:33:31,416 --> 00:33:35,316 commuting patterns, and long-term community sustainability. 598 00:33:36,545 --> 00:33:39,466 Another big takeaway is the notion that 599 00:33:39,736 --> 00:33:43,086 66% of job salaries within the township, 600 00:33:43,765 --> 00:33:47,656 according to these employment sectors, will find it difficult to afford 601 00:33:47,696 --> 00:33:48,896 the current housing stock. 602 00:33:56,436 --> 00:33:57,696 So this slide displays 603 00:33:58,576 --> 00:34:02,176 that there was moderate job growth between the years of 2000 and 604 00:34:02,396 --> 00:34:06,156 2020 at about 14.5% over the last 605 00:34:06,296 --> 00:34:06,856 20 years. 606 00:34:08,306 --> 00:34:11,316 Projections over the next 20 years from 2020 607 00:34:12,397 --> 00:34:16,316 to 2040 show a low employment growth rate of 10%. 608 00:34:17,816 --> 00:34:21,216 The biggest takeaway from this is that all employment sectors 609 00:34:21,276 --> 00:34:25,136 that need workforce employees will be limited, which will impact 610 00:34:25,147 --> 00:34:28,857 targeted attainability housing population and their ability to 611 00:34:28,897 --> 00:34:30,515 afford a house in Solebury. 612 00:34:33,316 --> 00:34:37,187 So this presentation is not arguing that every worker should live locally, 613 00:34:37,917 --> 00:34:41,576 but rather examining whether there are enough housing options across 614 00:34:41,616 --> 00:34:42,707 different income levels. 615 00:34:47,496 --> 00:34:50,496 The next slide asks, has housing production kept pace? 616 00:34:52,836 --> 00:34:56,636 The population grew 11% from 2000 to 2010 617 00:34:57,196 --> 00:35:00,496 and 0.2% from 2010 to 2020. 618 00:35:01,756 --> 00:35:05,676 And from 2020 to 2025, the population growth has dropped 619 00:35:06,296 --> 00:35:08,276 below the 2010 population. 620 00:35:10,056 --> 00:35:13,956 However, the population is projected to slightly increase over the next 15 621 00:35:14,016 --> 00:35:15,226 years to 2040. 622 00:35:16,676 --> 00:35:20,116 Housing production increased 540 units from 2000 to 623 00:35:20,126 --> 00:35:20,876 2020. 624 00:35:22,216 --> 00:35:26,086 It has slightly grown since then, and in the last few years 625 00:35:26,096 --> 00:35:29,916 has averaged five plus units according to approved permits for 626 00:35:29,976 --> 00:35:31,356 new residential construction. 627 00:35:32,716 --> 00:35:36,676 So currently, there is slow population growth and slow new 628 00:35:36,696 --> 00:35:37,516 housing growth. 629 00:35:40,016 --> 00:35:43,396 So basically, housing growth appears to be currently stable for the current 630 00:35:43,456 --> 00:35:46,956 predominantly housing type of single-family detached, which comprises 631 00:35:47,116 --> 00:35:49,916 80% of housing types in Solebury. 632 00:35:51,816 --> 00:35:55,726 So the big key takeaway with regards to attainable housing and 633 00:35:55,796 --> 00:35:57,456 population is 634 00:35:58,316 --> 00:36:02,296 the housing inventory remains tight with limited vacancy and 635 00:36:02,336 --> 00:36:03,116 relatively little 636 00:36:03,956 --> 00:36:06,896 housing being added over the last two decades. 637 00:36:07,956 --> 00:36:11,755 Since Solebury Township is 93% owner-occupied with a low 638 00:36:11,796 --> 00:36:15,316 vacancy rate, with high and competitive housing prices, 639 00:36:16,136 --> 00:36:18,296 it is obvious that the people want to stay here, 640 00:36:19,276 --> 00:36:23,176 which creates little opportunity for younger starter homeowners and the 641 00:36:23,236 --> 00:36:24,796 elderly who wish to downsize. 642 00:36:26,086 --> 00:36:30,036 This suggests a limited diversity in housing types beyond single-family detached 643 00:36:30,056 --> 00:36:32,316 to accommodate the targeted attainable 644 00:36:32,326 --> 00:36:37,164 populations.And 645 00:36:37,224 --> 00:36:39,184 just to summarize some of the findings. 646 00:36:41,064 --> 00:36:44,944 So this limited data consistently points toward a mismatch between housing 647 00:36:44,984 --> 00:36:48,044 availability and the needs of attainable populations. 648 00:36:49,224 --> 00:36:53,004 The strongest themes are aging demographics, high housing costs, 649 00:36:53,524 --> 00:36:57,164 limited rental and attainable ownership properties, and low turnover. 650 00:37:00,604 --> 00:37:04,504 The presentation basically identifies what planners often call missing middle 651 00:37:04,584 --> 00:37:05,024 housing, 652 00:37:05,964 --> 00:37:09,924 smaller scale, more attainable housing options between large 653 00:37:10,004 --> 00:37:12,963 lot single-family homes and high-density development. 654 00:37:14,904 --> 00:37:18,424 So in closing, the broader discussion is ultimately about balance, 655 00:37:18,564 --> 00:37:22,104 preserving Solebury's character while ensuring future generations, 656 00:37:22,824 --> 00:37:26,704 local workers and older residents can continue to be part of the community. 657 00:37:27,864 --> 00:37:31,384 Solebury's desirability and quality of life are clear strengths. 658 00:37:32,804 --> 00:37:36,384 The question raised by this analysis is whether the community's 659 00:37:36,424 --> 00:37:40,304 housing choices remain broad enough to support residents at 660 00:37:40,344 --> 00:37:42,584 different ages and life stages, 661 00:37:43,584 --> 00:37:47,464 as well as younger families, to local workers, to seniors who want to age in 662 00:37:47,524 --> 00:37:47,944 place. 663 00:37:57,784 --> 00:37:58,044 John, 664 00:37:59,444 --> 00:38:03,304 when we think about what your title would be next year, we're 665 00:38:03,324 --> 00:38:07,144 going to ask Chris and Kevin and the board, could we add 666 00:38:07,244 --> 00:38:11,224 to your role, township demographer? Could we do that? 667 00:38:11,684 --> 00:38:14,094 No, seriously, this is really complex stuff. 668 00:38:14,144 --> 00:38:17,864 You did an excellent job to simplify a very, very 669 00:38:17,884 --> 00:38:21,644 dense set of factoids. Before we go 670 00:38:21,744 --> 00:38:25,704 on, does anybody in the audience have any specific question to ask 671 00:38:25,764 --> 00:38:28,004 John on what he's just presented? 672 00:38:28,564 --> 00:38:30,294 Hopefully it wasn't more confusing than- 673 00:38:31,184 --> 00:38:33,084 Go for it. So please, uh- 674 00:38:33,804 --> 00:38:35,824 I do research as well. 675 00:38:36,044 --> 00:38:36,534 Mm-hmm. 676 00:38:36,704 --> 00:38:39,484 So I compared Solebury... Oh, sorry. 677 00:38:40,324 --> 00:38:44,144 I compared Solebury Township with Warminster and Doylestown, and I grew up in 678 00:38:44,184 --> 00:38:47,024 Warminster right, in the early '70s. 679 00:38:47,663 --> 00:38:51,444 And so I'll have a story at the end because I originally 680 00:38:51,464 --> 00:38:55,204 thought that Warminster had a density population 681 00:38:55,244 --> 00:38:56,864 increase over time, and it didn't, 682 00:38:58,744 --> 00:39:01,624 which was really intriguing to me because when I was a kid, 683 00:39:02,784 --> 00:39:06,264 we were able to cross Street Road as a young kid going to 684 00:39:06,704 --> 00:39:09,344 the grocery store or shop with my mom, right, no issues. 685 00:39:09,924 --> 00:39:13,804 When I was 16, before I went to college, I was able to go from Davisville Road 686 00:39:14,644 --> 00:39:18,414 up to 611 in 15 minutes. You cannot do that today, 687 00:39:19,204 --> 00:39:19,464 right? 688 00:39:21,404 --> 00:39:25,274 So some of the research I had was looking at those numbers and 689 00:39:25,664 --> 00:39:28,844 verifying those numbers. I actually did my own kind of research. 690 00:39:32,024 --> 00:39:35,564 In Solebury Township, 4% of the population work in the 691 00:39:35,604 --> 00:39:36,044 township, 692 00:39:37,264 --> 00:39:38,504 22% work from home, 693 00:39:39,624 --> 00:39:41,124 44% commute out, 694 00:39:42,044 --> 00:39:45,424 and their commute on average is 39.2 miles. 695 00:39:46,104 --> 00:39:49,224 So they are going far away to work at those high-level jobs, 696 00:39:49,944 --> 00:39:50,984 right, that they're paying. 697 00:39:53,564 --> 00:39:56,774 And then the 30%, which is actually on average across all those three 698 00:39:56,864 --> 00:39:58,944 townships, are not in the labor force. 699 00:39:58,984 --> 00:40:02,684 And ironically enough, all townships have about the same amount of 700 00:40:02,724 --> 00:40:03,724 people commuting out, 701 00:40:04,824 --> 00:40:06,444 but ours is the furthest commute, 702 00:40:07,284 --> 00:40:10,874 right? So people who live in this township don't necessarily work in this 703 00:40:10,884 --> 00:40:11,384 township. 704 00:40:11,964 --> 00:40:12,524 Yeah. 705 00:40:12,584 --> 00:40:15,414 Right? Which I find is okay. 706 00:40:16,204 --> 00:40:16,763 Mm-hmm. 707 00:40:16,824 --> 00:40:20,484 Right? I'm okay with that. I moved into this township at 708 00:40:20,664 --> 00:40:24,484 38 years of age. I worked hard because we wanted to come 709 00:40:24,524 --> 00:40:24,684 here, 710 00:40:25,664 --> 00:40:26,464 and I 711 00:40:27,284 --> 00:40:29,824 feel that it's a privilege to live here. 712 00:40:30,464 --> 00:40:31,924 I love the open spaces. 713 00:40:33,744 --> 00:40:36,084 And I'm not against 714 00:40:37,224 --> 00:40:41,064 affordable housing if we're talking like 715 00:40:41,164 --> 00:40:42,464 the in-law suites, 716 00:40:44,824 --> 00:40:47,994 additional properties on someone's farm for farm workers to go 717 00:40:50,684 --> 00:40:54,204 and live in. If it's someone who owns the property and they want to build a 718 00:40:54,264 --> 00:40:58,104 carriage house, if we have rules against that, I think maybe we should look into 719 00:40:58,184 --> 00:40:59,284 changing those rules. 720 00:41:01,824 --> 00:41:02,204 Thank you. 721 00:41:03,804 --> 00:41:05,424 John, do you have any other comments? 722 00:41:05,744 --> 00:41:09,564 I was going to say, those are all options that we probably will be 723 00:41:09,604 --> 00:41:10,884 discussing tonight. 724 00:41:10,924 --> 00:41:11,164 Yeah. 725 00:41:11,184 --> 00:41:15,024 Because we want any sort of attainable housing to work its way into 726 00:41:15,064 --> 00:41:16,644 the fabric of the community. 727 00:41:17,204 --> 00:41:17,544 Yes, sir. 728 00:41:18,564 --> 00:41:20,084 I just have a comment, yeah. 729 00:41:21,024 --> 00:41:24,864 So in the beginning, everyone said who they were and what road they lived on. 730 00:41:25,464 --> 00:41:25,554 Okay. 731 00:41:25,554 --> 00:41:28,004 And tell us who you are and what road you live on. 732 00:41:28,264 --> 00:41:29,084 Use the microphone. 733 00:41:29,584 --> 00:41:30,584 Okay. Just- 734 00:41:30,644 --> 00:41:31,684 I don't think I need it, but- 735 00:41:31,844 --> 00:41:32,984 It's for the recording. 736 00:41:34,644 --> 00:41:35,244 I didn't see. 737 00:41:35,504 --> 00:41:37,564 Just so the people that watch this later can- 738 00:41:40,184 --> 00:41:43,224 There you go. Hi, my name is Joseph Verone. 739 00:41:43,324 --> 00:41:45,604 I live on Shetland Drive in Solebury. 740 00:41:46,284 --> 00:41:49,804 I purchased my house in 1996. I've been here for 30 741 00:41:49,864 --> 00:41:50,284 years. 742 00:41:51,104 --> 00:41:54,784 It was an upgrade for me. I moved here when I was 37 also. 743 00:41:55,224 --> 00:41:58,344 I worked very hard to purchase a home in Solebury. 744 00:41:58,864 --> 00:42:02,544 I drive over 30 miles each way to work, one 745 00:42:02,644 --> 00:42:06,564 hour each way in traffic. I want to say that I was 746 00:42:06,624 --> 00:42:09,384 looking at, is Solebury aging? Yes. 747 00:42:09,824 --> 00:42:13,024 Five homes on my street in the past year sold, 748 00:42:14,184 --> 00:42:18,064 and they were seniors who could no longer afford to live here, which was very 749 00:42:18,074 --> 00:42:21,064 sad. They were retired on a fixed 750 00:42:21,164 --> 00:42:25,094 income, and their taxes, including mine, went up 700 751 00:42:25,284 --> 00:42:28,104 last year, and I'm sure they're going up 700 this year. 752 00:42:29,114 --> 00:42:33,024 The five houses were purchased by you saying 11% 753 00:42:33,784 --> 00:42:37,164 residents age 20 to 40. All five of those homes were 754 00:42:37,204 --> 00:42:40,992 purchased by-By residents aged 20 to 40. 755 00:42:41,112 --> 00:42:44,892 My neighbors next door are 28 years old and just 756 00:42:45,172 --> 00:42:47,172 purchased their home in Solebury. 757 00:42:48,152 --> 00:42:51,812 And so I don't think you're doing enough for the seniors 758 00:42:52,472 --> 00:42:53,052 to bring a... 759 00:42:55,212 --> 00:42:56,632 I think this is 760 00:42:58,132 --> 00:42:59,152 not attainable, 761 00:43:02,852 --> 00:43:06,612 for the population. It's more low income, trying to 762 00:43:06,672 --> 00:43:07,892 bring low income here. 763 00:43:08,692 --> 00:43:11,312 For 30 years, I've been hearing 764 00:43:12,292 --> 00:43:15,932 supervisors and the school board saying, "This is a 765 00:43:15,992 --> 00:43:19,752 serene, peaceful place." Bonds have floated for 30 766 00:43:19,832 --> 00:43:23,772 years to buy open space, and now all of a sudden 767 00:43:23,832 --> 00:43:27,332 you want to bring in 100 units of 768 00:43:27,392 --> 00:43:30,992 low-income housing. You want to put a tiny house in every backyard. 769 00:43:31,022 --> 00:43:34,992 You want everyone to turn their garage into an in-law suite. 770 00:43:35,032 --> 00:43:38,732 What's that going to do to our aquifer? We're all on well water. 771 00:43:38,772 --> 00:43:42,132 We're septics. Has anybody thought about that? And Mr. 772 00:43:42,452 --> 00:43:46,092 Zubas, are you going to give a permit for a tiny house in everyone's 773 00:43:46,152 --> 00:43:50,052 backyard or for them to turn their garage into an in-law 774 00:43:50,152 --> 00:43:52,792 suite? We have enough traffic as it is. 775 00:43:52,872 --> 00:43:55,652 We have enough problems with well water and septic. 776 00:43:56,232 --> 00:43:59,012 I don't think this is attainable at all, to be honest. 777 00:43:59,652 --> 00:44:01,372 If I could make a comment, please. 778 00:44:01,412 --> 00:44:01,992 Perfect. 779 00:44:02,072 --> 00:44:06,012 No one has made a plan for 100 units of anything. 780 00:44:06,172 --> 00:44:07,612 Well, that's what I heard last week. 781 00:44:08,722 --> 00:44:12,232 They said between 50 and 100 units were going to be built in Solebury. 782 00:44:12,732 --> 00:44:14,952 No, what we said is the projections. 783 00:44:15,352 --> 00:44:19,272 So before we got started as a group, we asked, 784 00:44:19,632 --> 00:44:21,512 just like any other community would ask, 785 00:44:22,372 --> 00:44:26,002 what is in the stars? What 786 00:44:26,052 --> 00:44:30,032 does the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission, the Bucks County Planning 787 00:44:30,092 --> 00:44:33,692 Commission, the Pennsylvania State Data Center say in terms of 788 00:44:33,732 --> 00:44:34,092 growth? 789 00:44:34,912 --> 00:44:38,632 And so is it a little bit, like 100 homes, 790 00:44:39,032 --> 00:44:43,012 or a lot, or a medium amount? We wanted to wrap 791 00:44:43,092 --> 00:44:45,482 our minds around what 792 00:44:46,372 --> 00:44:50,292 do the prognosticators think is going to happen so we 793 00:44:50,332 --> 00:44:54,232 can plan ahead. Now, I also want to just mention 794 00:44:55,672 --> 00:44:57,392 that I didn't earlier, 795 00:44:58,292 --> 00:45:02,152 I didn't say we were working simultaneously on the comprehensive plan. 796 00:45:03,292 --> 00:45:04,852 The municipality's planning code, 797 00:45:05,732 --> 00:45:09,552 circa 1968, called Act 247, 798 00:45:10,392 --> 00:45:11,012 as amended, 799 00:45:12,152 --> 00:45:15,672 has a section on comprehensive planning, and it has the word shall. 800 00:45:15,962 --> 00:45:19,672 And when you look at the definitions, may is discretionary and 801 00:45:19,712 --> 00:45:23,332 shall is you have to do it. So it says, "Municipalities 802 00:45:23,792 --> 00:45:27,712 shall include the following elements in a comprehensive plan." It lists like a 803 00:45:27,752 --> 00:45:31,712 dozen items. I'm going to just touch one of them, because we're 804 00:45:31,772 --> 00:45:35,272 asking ourself the question in the comprehensive plan, how can 805 00:45:35,372 --> 00:45:37,822 we comply with this shall requirement? 806 00:45:38,012 --> 00:45:41,932 So it says, "Comprehensive plans shall include a 807 00:45:41,972 --> 00:45:42,392 plan 808 00:45:43,252 --> 00:45:46,572 to meet the housing needs of present residents." 809 00:45:47,692 --> 00:45:48,892 Could be, as you said, 810 00:45:50,372 --> 00:45:51,852 not doing enough for the seniors. 811 00:45:53,142 --> 00:45:57,012 "And those individuals and families anticipated to reside in the 812 00:45:57,032 --> 00:46:00,592 municipality, which may include the conservation of 813 00:46:00,672 --> 00:46:02,052 presently sound housing, 814 00:46:03,112 --> 00:46:06,932 rehabilitation of housing in declining neighborhoods." This is 815 00:46:06,952 --> 00:46:10,252 written for the whole state. I don't think we have declining neighborhoods in 816 00:46:10,312 --> 00:46:10,772 Solebury. 817 00:46:11,712 --> 00:46:15,652 And the accommodation, this is the key part, "The accommodation of 818 00:46:15,712 --> 00:46:19,452 expected new housing in different dwelling types 819 00:46:20,192 --> 00:46:23,712 and at appropriate densities for households of all income 820 00:46:23,792 --> 00:46:24,212 levels." 821 00:46:25,052 --> 00:46:28,392 So when we're done the comp plan, we have to say, do we get an A on our report 822 00:46:28,492 --> 00:46:32,012 card? Did we address the shall requirement there? 823 00:46:32,832 --> 00:46:36,332 So in what we're doing, we are sort of 824 00:46:36,432 --> 00:46:40,152 scraping at the surface of saying, how do we do this? 825 00:46:40,852 --> 00:46:43,632 And we're doing a deep dive in all of these subjects. 826 00:46:44,592 --> 00:46:46,912 What we're going to conclude at the end, I'm not sure. 827 00:46:47,312 --> 00:46:50,992 But we're in this probative fact-finding kind of 828 00:46:52,052 --> 00:46:53,532 mood. And 829 00:46:54,452 --> 00:46:58,412 more to follow. We will have some answers to your 830 00:46:58,472 --> 00:46:58,912 questions, 831 00:46:59,712 --> 00:47:02,892 not tonight, but it's good that you've mentioned what you did. 832 00:47:03,452 --> 00:47:03,612 So- 833 00:47:03,932 --> 00:47:04,872 If I could mention- 834 00:47:04,992 --> 00:47:05,411 Yeah 835 00:47:05,432 --> 00:47:06,902 ... as I introduced, 836 00:47:08,292 --> 00:47:12,152 we have 12 committees of about 100 residents 837 00:47:12,192 --> 00:47:15,412 drilling down on all sorts of topics, and that's what this is. 838 00:47:15,472 --> 00:47:18,922 This is not a ramp-up, and this is not an announcement to say, "Okay, we're going 839 00:47:18,932 --> 00:47:22,552 to build 100 units in your backyard." This is an 840 00:47:22,632 --> 00:47:26,472 attempt to get community input. 841 00:47:26,912 --> 00:47:29,192 So is this an important issue 842 00:47:30,012 --> 00:47:33,072 or is it not an important issue? Let's talk about this. 843 00:47:33,292 --> 00:47:35,952 That's what we're doing, but it's not something that 844 00:47:36,772 --> 00:47:40,452 the bulldozers aren't rolling at this point. 845 00:47:40,512 --> 00:47:42,452 Yeah, and so Kevin, to your point, Kevin, 846 00:47:43,532 --> 00:47:47,052 the easy-peasy part is just to say, well, we have a 847 00:47:47,112 --> 00:47:51,072 mandate in the planning code. All Pennsylvania municipalities 848 00:47:51,172 --> 00:47:55,052 have it. We've done our 849 00:47:55,072 --> 00:47:58,992 homework. We've looked at what people say might be the housing and 850 00:47:59,092 --> 00:48:02,852 population forecast. And we have to say, well, if there 851 00:48:02,912 --> 00:48:06,472 were additional housing on the order 852 00:48:06,592 --> 00:48:07,832 of 100 units, 853 00:48:09,032 --> 00:48:13,012 what would it look like? Where might it go? What might be the options? 854 00:48:13,972 --> 00:48:16,972 We don't have a housing authority. We're not building houses. 855 00:48:17,052 --> 00:48:19,572 Solebury Township does not have a housing authority. 856 00:48:20,572 --> 00:48:23,852 But what we could do is say, are there any 857 00:48:23,892 --> 00:48:26,272 impediments in the zoning ordinance that would 858 00:48:26,332 --> 00:48:30,042 prevent what the gentleman said of not 859 00:48:30,112 --> 00:48:32,862 having enough for the seniors? So anyway- 860 00:48:33,952 --> 00:48:37,892 But again, back to my point, what we're trying to 861 00:48:37,932 --> 00:48:41,672 do here is we're trying to determine what percentage of the population, 862 00:48:42,172 --> 00:48:42,762 the community, 863 00:48:43,572 --> 00:48:45,132 in whatever way we can determine 864 00:48:46,848 --> 00:48:49,068 Are in favor of attainable housing. 865 00:48:49,108 --> 00:48:51,388 And if it is attainable housing, what does that look like? 866 00:48:52,088 --> 00:48:54,078 And as I said, maybe it's ADUs, 867 00:48:54,888 --> 00:48:55,228 maybe 868 00:48:56,268 --> 00:48:57,788 it's a seven-story 869 00:48:59,168 --> 00:49:01,618 building unit, or maybe it's 870 00:49:03,388 --> 00:49:04,328 tiny houses 871 00:49:05,228 --> 00:49:06,128 or nothing. 872 00:49:07,188 --> 00:49:11,128 But the stage we're at at this point is we're trying 873 00:49:11,168 --> 00:49:15,008 to get input from the community as to what is the tolerance. 874 00:49:15,208 --> 00:49:18,908 I can tell you, at the last 875 00:49:18,948 --> 00:49:19,308 meeting, 876 00:49:21,408 --> 00:49:23,698 I sat here and there were-- 877 00:49:24,728 --> 00:49:27,708 And I could identify, and it was a well-attended meeting. 878 00:49:29,228 --> 00:49:32,048 There were people of a variety of political positions, 879 00:49:33,408 --> 00:49:37,008 left and right, and all of them said, "There is an issue." 880 00:49:37,068 --> 00:49:40,688 And this is flying 40,000 feet up looking at it, 881 00:49:40,828 --> 00:49:43,448 but there are issues. And what do we do? 882 00:49:43,548 --> 00:49:47,028 And some people said, "Yes, I worked hard to be 883 00:49:47,098 --> 00:49:50,988 here and they can work hard too," or, 884 00:49:51,018 --> 00:49:54,668 "Gee, we've got a problem here. We need to diversify the 885 00:49:54,688 --> 00:49:56,688 population." But that's what we're doing here. 886 00:49:56,778 --> 00:50:00,088 We're trying to discuss what those issues are. 887 00:50:00,868 --> 00:50:04,088 And Kevin, the one thing I forgot to say in my story about 888 00:50:05,368 --> 00:50:09,288 Lancaster Avenue from Philadelphia to Lancaster, City of Philadelphia 889 00:50:09,368 --> 00:50:13,348 to the City of Lancaster, as I said in my presentation in the mid-'90s, 890 00:50:14,048 --> 00:50:17,088 all you would have to do is add the second story 891 00:50:17,168 --> 00:50:21,098 above single story, non-residential, 892 00:50:21,128 --> 00:50:24,088 and you could meet the population demand for 2050. 893 00:50:26,068 --> 00:50:29,628 After the federal tax code was amended in 894 00:50:29,668 --> 00:50:31,028 1954, 895 00:50:32,388 --> 00:50:33,488 you no longer 896 00:50:35,328 --> 00:50:39,288 were incentivized to do two and three-story buildings. 897 00:50:40,088 --> 00:50:43,728 In my alma mater, Penn State, when you go down the bottom of the 898 00:50:43,768 --> 00:50:47,588 so-called mall from the Pattee Paterno Library to the corner room, 899 00:50:48,408 --> 00:50:51,888 if you look to the right, you see all the buildings built up to 900 00:50:51,928 --> 00:50:55,888 1954. If you look to the left, you see all the buildings that were built 901 00:50:55,988 --> 00:50:59,528 after 1954, many of which are one-story buildings. 902 00:51:00,028 --> 00:51:00,188 And 903 00:51:02,348 --> 00:51:03,548 Route 202 corridor, 904 00:51:04,688 --> 00:51:08,378 just in your mind's eye, think about how many one-story non-residential 905 00:51:08,468 --> 00:51:09,128 buildings there are, 906 00:51:09,988 --> 00:51:13,788 and just pretend that each of them had a second floor. 907 00:51:15,468 --> 00:51:16,988 That would be more than 100 units. 908 00:51:17,868 --> 00:51:20,628 That is one possibility, but it's not going to happen. 909 00:51:21,208 --> 00:51:25,088 People aren't going to do that. Maybe one or two or three if we let them, but it 910 00:51:25,158 --> 00:51:28,168 is a possibility. It's one of the possibilities. 911 00:51:28,178 --> 00:51:32,128 So we're going to go-- Sure. Helen. Yes. 912 00:51:32,748 --> 00:51:34,288 Let's take the mic. Go for it. 913 00:51:34,528 --> 00:51:36,268 There you go. 914 00:51:37,528 --> 00:51:38,228 I think 915 00:51:39,448 --> 00:51:41,408 I'm troubled by some of what I've heard. 916 00:51:41,448 --> 00:51:45,148 We all moved here and love it here because it's so 917 00:51:45,288 --> 00:51:48,308 beautiful and it's a wonderful place to live. 918 00:51:48,408 --> 00:51:52,058 And at the same time, I'm hearing this like we don't want anybody else to come, 919 00:51:52,688 --> 00:51:54,428 which I find very troublesome. 920 00:51:55,248 --> 00:51:59,218 The data that John shared shows that we have 921 00:51:59,268 --> 00:52:01,868 a big deficit in the age 20 to 40. 922 00:52:03,608 --> 00:52:07,248 I think our community would benefit from having people of that 923 00:52:07,348 --> 00:52:07,688 age. 924 00:52:08,948 --> 00:52:10,708 And what's going to happen when 925 00:52:11,848 --> 00:52:14,008 the older folks in Solebury die? 926 00:52:15,008 --> 00:52:18,048 They've got these massive homes and who 927 00:52:19,188 --> 00:52:23,088 even wants massive homes anymore? Who can afford these massive homes? 928 00:52:23,968 --> 00:52:27,858 I think we need to be trying to attract people and this 929 00:52:27,888 --> 00:52:31,408 gentleman mentioned we need to do more for seniors because they can't afford to 930 00:52:31,448 --> 00:52:33,508 live here. Well, that's the same problem younger people have. 931 00:52:33,568 --> 00:52:37,368 And so having attainable housing would benefit both younger people, 932 00:52:37,568 --> 00:52:40,158 lower income people, as well as older people. 933 00:52:40,928 --> 00:52:44,268 And I don't hear anybody saying, "Let's build a massive apartment 934 00:52:44,328 --> 00:52:45,838 complex." I'm hearing, 935 00:52:47,108 --> 00:52:50,528 to me, if you like the rural character of Solebury, 936 00:52:51,408 --> 00:52:55,368 having accessory dwellings or tiny homes 937 00:52:55,448 --> 00:52:59,168 is a way to preserve that rural setting while 938 00:52:59,288 --> 00:53:02,708 also bringing in more attainable housing. 939 00:53:02,827 --> 00:53:03,128 So 940 00:53:04,208 --> 00:53:05,827 you can't have it both ways, right? 941 00:53:05,887 --> 00:53:05,968 We 942 00:53:07,327 --> 00:53:11,308 have an aging population. If we don't 943 00:53:11,368 --> 00:53:15,288 make allowances or provisions that allow for attainable 944 00:53:15,308 --> 00:53:18,828 housing, then we're just going to continue to have the same problem. 945 00:53:18,848 --> 00:53:20,128 We're not going to attract younger people. 946 00:53:20,228 --> 00:53:22,768 Older people are going to have to leave the community. 947 00:53:22,828 --> 00:53:23,568 So- 948 00:53:23,608 --> 00:53:24,428 Totally agree. 949 00:53:25,428 --> 00:53:27,308 Oh, please. Yes, please. 950 00:53:27,568 --> 00:53:28,048 Thank you. 951 00:53:30,728 --> 00:53:34,468 I also wanted to speak to the concept of hard work. 952 00:53:35,228 --> 00:53:39,148 I really am grateful for this in this session and last time, 953 00:53:39,788 --> 00:53:41,188 the highlighting of 954 00:53:42,228 --> 00:53:45,668 how much money people are paid. By the nature of our 955 00:53:47,008 --> 00:53:48,048 world and economy, 956 00:53:49,108 --> 00:53:51,268 different people get paid different amounts of money. 957 00:53:51,628 --> 00:53:54,708 All of the people who are working are working hard. 958 00:53:56,348 --> 00:53:58,148 Some people are doing very hard work 959 00:53:59,008 --> 00:54:02,848 caring for elderly in nursing homes and getting paid very little. 960 00:54:02,898 --> 00:54:06,888 Some people are doing very hard work as CEOs of companies and 961 00:54:06,928 --> 00:54:07,928 getting paid a lot. 962 00:54:09,508 --> 00:54:13,488 I believe that all people, if they want 963 00:54:13,568 --> 00:54:16,808 to, should have the possibility of living 964 00:54:17,288 --> 00:54:20,528 close to where they work. I like the idea of 965 00:54:21,368 --> 00:54:22,388 the person who 966 00:54:23,228 --> 00:54:27,188 is the plumber in our homes being someone I 967 00:54:27,228 --> 00:54:29,328 might run into in the grocery store, or 968 00:54:30,448 --> 00:54:31,388 a kid's teacher 969 00:54:32,228 --> 00:54:36,128 also having a kid on the local soccer team, and you see that teacher as a 970 00:54:36,168 --> 00:54:39,918 human being outside of the classroom because they live in your community. 971 00:54:40,448 --> 00:54:44,148 So, just a reminder that when we talk about attainable 972 00:54:44,228 --> 00:54:47,148 housing, we're not talking about necessarily 973 00:54:47,328 --> 00:54:51,228 "low income," even though I'll personally say 974 00:54:51,268 --> 00:54:55,113 that would beFine with me. But what we're really talking about here in 975 00:54:55,124 --> 00:54:58,744 Solbury Township is what is not low 976 00:54:58,824 --> 00:55:02,024 income. We're talking about somebody potentially who makes 977 00:55:02,434 --> 00:55:04,244 $70,000 a year. 978 00:55:05,864 --> 00:55:09,384 That's a person working very hard for a very 979 00:55:09,644 --> 00:55:13,544 reasonable income who cannot live close to where they work 980 00:55:13,624 --> 00:55:14,664 in this community. 981 00:55:16,424 --> 00:55:20,284 So I just want to speak to that concept of hard work. 982 00:55:20,884 --> 00:55:24,024 There's a great phrase that all labor is skilled labor. 983 00:55:25,144 --> 00:55:29,114 All work is hard work, and I want everyone the opportunity to not 984 00:55:29,184 --> 00:55:33,043 have to drive 39 miles if that's not their 985 00:55:33,094 --> 00:55:33,964 choice to get to work. 986 00:55:35,364 --> 00:55:39,254 Let's do this. One more comment, or two more comments, and 987 00:55:39,284 --> 00:55:41,944 then we're going to go to Zach, just to keep on time. Thank you. 988 00:55:45,404 --> 00:55:49,104 Yeah. Love all of these comments. I'm a big believer in 989 00:55:49,204 --> 00:55:52,764 improvisation and yes, and, I think maybe we could have it both ways. 990 00:55:56,044 --> 00:55:59,924 I think not only looking at housing typologies and vacant lots 991 00:55:59,944 --> 00:56:03,764 where housing could go, but the nature of the housing we have now, 992 00:56:04,304 --> 00:56:06,104 the houses that we live in in Solbury 993 00:56:07,084 --> 00:56:08,444 are very large. 994 00:56:09,424 --> 00:56:13,354 I talked with a friend of mine who grew up in the Bronx, and she looks at 995 00:56:13,364 --> 00:56:16,144 some of the new houses being built, and she goes, "10 families could live in 996 00:56:16,184 --> 00:56:16,364 there." 997 00:56:17,504 --> 00:56:21,463 So I think it's also a question of what does the existing housing 998 00:56:21,584 --> 00:56:25,444 stock look like? What could it look like if we were 999 00:56:25,464 --> 00:56:29,324 to change zoning to do some of the multifamily, mixed-use, 1000 00:56:29,664 --> 00:56:31,714 live-work, boarding house? 1001 00:56:32,704 --> 00:56:36,444 Use the typologies that we have and understand how it impacts the 1002 00:56:36,524 --> 00:56:38,164 septic, the water use, and 1003 00:56:39,264 --> 00:56:42,924 make reasonable rules around how we might 1004 00:56:43,324 --> 00:56:45,004 reexamine the housing we have. 1005 00:56:45,844 --> 00:56:49,524 And I really appreciate what you're doing tonight, appreciated the last forum very 1006 00:56:49,624 --> 00:56:52,844 much. The biggest takeaway for me is 1007 00:56:54,084 --> 00:56:57,644 as we have more and more privileged people living here who 1008 00:56:57,764 --> 00:57:01,564 don't labor, in a sense, without 1009 00:57:01,584 --> 00:57:05,464 machines at their aid. They work with their hands, they work with people. 1010 00:57:06,784 --> 00:57:10,604 We had a lot of commercial mom-and-pop 1011 00:57:10,644 --> 00:57:14,544 business owners here at the last forum talking about how 1012 00:57:14,584 --> 00:57:18,444 they could not find staff. We have hospitals that cannot 1013 00:57:18,504 --> 00:57:21,744 find staff. We have schools that sometimes cannot find staff. 1014 00:57:21,784 --> 00:57:25,634 Our school pays very well. But a lot of other communities that end up in 1015 00:57:25,684 --> 00:57:27,533 this very narrow demographic, 1016 00:57:28,473 --> 00:57:32,264 they don't have assistance that they need 1017 00:57:32,344 --> 00:57:35,964 to age here, even if they could afford to stay, because no one 1018 00:57:36,364 --> 00:57:39,624 who will care for them or help them or fix their broken parts, 1019 00:57:40,304 --> 00:57:43,824 whether it be the house parts or the people parts, can afford to live 1020 00:57:43,884 --> 00:57:47,604 nearby and can't commute for an hour to give you a hand. 1021 00:57:48,184 --> 00:57:52,144 I actually live on a property here in 1022 00:57:52,204 --> 00:57:54,444 Solbury that I was lucky enough to inherit, 1023 00:57:55,404 --> 00:57:59,104 and I run it with my brother, and we are grandfathered in as a multifamily. 1024 00:57:59,594 --> 00:58:01,204 And we rent very affordably 1025 00:58:02,084 --> 00:58:05,864 because we want to be able to enjoy the people that we 1026 00:58:05,944 --> 00:58:07,204 live on the property with. 1027 00:58:08,124 --> 00:58:11,864 And I think that the other thing that was missing, John, from 1028 00:58:11,924 --> 00:58:15,544 your reasons why people live here, and the more I meet people 1029 00:58:15,664 --> 00:58:19,624 and talk to local folks because I volunteer a lot, I go out a lot, 1030 00:58:19,704 --> 00:58:20,644 I love this community, 1031 00:58:21,444 --> 00:58:25,364 people love the farms. And they really love being able to have local 1032 00:58:25,504 --> 00:58:25,884 food, 1033 00:58:26,684 --> 00:58:30,564 which is not a small thing. And that requires 1034 00:58:30,724 --> 00:58:34,664 a lot of seasonal housing, seasonal workers, and a lot 1035 00:58:34,704 --> 00:58:36,444 of respect for working with the earth. 1036 00:58:37,044 --> 00:58:40,354 So I just want to reconsider some of the 1037 00:58:40,384 --> 00:58:44,204 typologies we have, some of the big buildings we have, and how we might rezone 1038 00:58:44,244 --> 00:58:47,884 them or look at them in a different way to have it both 1039 00:58:47,924 --> 00:58:51,104 ways. Sorry that was so long. Good transition to zoning. 1040 00:58:51,324 --> 00:58:53,124 You can... Yeah, there we go. 1041 00:58:53,424 --> 00:58:53,884 Hey, Chris. 1042 00:58:55,884 --> 00:58:56,104 Thanks. 1043 00:58:58,064 --> 00:59:00,114 I'll start by saying 1044 00:59:01,124 --> 00:59:03,184 I agree with you 100%. 1045 00:59:04,344 --> 00:59:06,384 When I was growing up, I grew up on Long Island. 1046 00:59:08,164 --> 00:59:12,004 I graduated from university. I had to commute from Long 1047 00:59:12,124 --> 00:59:14,824 Island into Brooklyn every day. 1048 00:59:15,744 --> 00:59:16,324 Every day. 1049 00:59:17,204 --> 00:59:21,164 There was no way I, as a working person, could 1050 00:59:21,284 --> 00:59:25,104 ever have afforded to live in the neighborhood where I 1051 00:59:25,144 --> 00:59:28,864 grew up, where my parents worked hard to buy a 1052 00:59:28,924 --> 00:59:32,464 home. I had to leave. I left New York. Eventually, I married. 1053 00:59:33,044 --> 00:59:36,634 I moved. And believe it or not, I moved to Main Line, Pennsylvania. 1054 00:59:37,084 --> 00:59:40,894 I moved to Wayne. Believe it or not, I could afford a home there that I could not 1055 00:59:40,944 --> 00:59:44,224 afford on Long Island. And I worked hard. 1056 00:59:44,244 --> 00:59:47,454 I worked really, really hard. And when I finally 1057 00:59:47,484 --> 00:59:50,624 retired 11 years ago, I moved here 1058 00:59:51,424 --> 00:59:55,264 for the same reasons you said. I was considerably older than you when I 1059 00:59:55,324 --> 00:59:57,704 moved here, but that's why I moved here, 1060 00:59:58,804 --> 01:00:02,164 because I can attain the housing here, 1061 01:00:02,864 --> 01:00:06,644 and I don't want it to change. I'm sorry. I don't want it to change. 1062 01:00:06,984 --> 01:00:08,444 That's why I moved here. 1063 01:00:09,244 --> 01:00:10,224 I'm fine with some 1064 01:00:11,164 --> 01:00:13,644 of this, what you're talking about, attainable housing. 1065 01:00:13,673 --> 01:00:15,654 But I fear, I truly fear, 1066 01:00:16,484 --> 01:00:19,424 that it will get out of hand. The idea for 1067 01:00:19,464 --> 01:00:23,344 diversity and bringing in-- I don't believe that just because you 1068 01:00:23,404 --> 01:00:27,164 work in this township, you have to have 1069 01:00:27,224 --> 01:00:30,554 housing provided for you. I understand the 1070 01:00:30,584 --> 01:00:32,804 farmworkers. That part I get. I do. 1071 01:00:33,724 --> 01:00:33,944 But 1072 01:00:35,064 --> 01:00:38,564 I don't believe just because you work somewhere that you 1073 01:00:39,324 --> 01:00:42,424 must be provided housing. I commuted for years. 1074 01:00:43,304 --> 01:00:43,964 I survived. 1075 01:00:44,444 --> 01:00:47,224 Yeah. Thanks a lot. Okay, so what we're going to do, 1076 01:00:48,404 --> 01:00:50,484 we're going to hear from Zach next. 1077 01:00:51,704 --> 01:00:55,476 I also wanted to give a shout-out to my-Colleague 1078 01:00:55,496 --> 01:00:57,866 Erin Gross, who's joining us virtually- 1079 01:00:58,856 --> 01:00:58,886 Hello 1080 01:00:58,886 --> 01:01:02,686 ... who's helped a great deal in presenting these 1081 01:01:02,716 --> 01:01:05,976 work products and working on our housing 1082 01:01:06,016 --> 01:01:07,836 committee. So Zach, 1083 01:01:10,616 --> 01:01:14,416 tell us a little bit more about 1084 01:01:14,426 --> 01:01:16,296 the zoning from your perspective. 1085 01:01:16,506 --> 01:01:16,706 And 1086 01:01:17,656 --> 01:01:21,476 we are going to have questions of the panel later, so I'm going to hold 1087 01:01:21,536 --> 01:01:25,496 off on the questions just so we could stay on time, but could you tell us what you 1088 01:01:26,435 --> 01:01:30,096 have done in your deep dive after the April 9th 1089 01:01:30,136 --> 01:01:32,416 housing forum? Thanks. 1090 01:01:53,576 --> 01:01:55,376 Some technical difficulties. 1091 01:01:58,116 --> 01:01:58,875 There we go. Okay. 1092 01:01:59,776 --> 01:02:03,636 So just want to go over some of the zoning districts we have here, 1093 01:02:05,436 --> 01:02:08,886 talk a little bit about the residential, some of the commercial districts. 1094 01:02:10,516 --> 01:02:12,726 I'll go over the residential districts, 1095 01:02:13,596 --> 01:02:16,266 talk about what districts are-- 1096 01:02:18,596 --> 01:02:22,356 There's not a whole lot that we can do in those districts because they're so built 1097 01:02:22,496 --> 01:02:26,356 out. There's some restrictions, so talk about those districts, 1098 01:02:26,436 --> 01:02:27,096 talk about 1099 01:02:28,816 --> 01:02:32,076 some opportunities we have in other districts as well. 1100 01:02:32,556 --> 01:02:36,496 So this first slide here shows that we have 16 zoning districts 1101 01:02:36,516 --> 01:02:37,836 in Solbury. 1102 01:02:38,696 --> 01:02:42,596 So seven of the zoning districts are primarily 1103 01:02:42,636 --> 01:02:46,176 residential. Eight are primarily commercial, 1104 01:02:46,296 --> 01:02:49,836 but we will see in certain commercial districts, there are 1105 01:02:49,876 --> 01:02:53,556 some residential housing types that are permitted, depending on the 1106 01:02:53,596 --> 01:02:57,396 situation. And then we have the OR zoning 1107 01:02:57,516 --> 01:02:57,956 district, 1108 01:02:58,856 --> 01:03:02,696 which is outdoor recreational. No residential use is 1109 01:03:02,736 --> 01:03:03,335 permitted there. 1110 01:03:06,936 --> 01:03:10,416 So the first slide is the RARB zoning 1111 01:03:10,456 --> 01:03:14,405 district. The RARB zoning district takes 1112 01:03:14,536 --> 01:03:16,756 up the majority of the township. 1113 01:03:18,816 --> 01:03:22,176 As you can see, it's probably 80, 1114 01:03:22,876 --> 01:03:26,356 90, 85% of the township is RARB. 1115 01:03:28,176 --> 01:03:30,536 RARB stands for residential agricultural. 1116 01:03:31,816 --> 01:03:35,216 RA is smaller lots, RB is larger lots. 1117 01:03:36,436 --> 01:03:40,116 RA is one and a half acre minimum, RB is a three-acre 1118 01:03:40,176 --> 01:03:41,496 minimum. 1119 01:03:43,256 --> 01:03:46,356 So some of the opportunities in these zoning districts 1120 01:03:46,396 --> 01:03:49,136 include in-law suites. 1121 01:03:50,616 --> 01:03:54,476 At the April 9th meeting, I think I had mentioned that I get a lot of 1122 01:03:54,496 --> 01:03:56,896 phone calls about in-law suites. 1123 01:03:58,056 --> 01:04:01,976 Ironically, I did get a phone call yesterday from someone looking to buy a property 1124 01:04:02,416 --> 01:04:06,076 and asked me, "Is this something that I can purchase and have 1125 01:04:06,636 --> 01:04:10,596 my mother come live with me as an accessory dwelling?" And due to 1126 01:04:10,656 --> 01:04:14,076 the restrictions, I said, "No, it doesn't work with the 1127 01:04:14,136 --> 01:04:16,516 current standards that we have in the ordinance." 1128 01:04:19,436 --> 01:04:22,796 Moving forward, just maybe take another look at the accessory dwelling 1129 01:04:23,796 --> 01:04:26,156 restrictions and the regulations that we have. 1130 01:04:27,336 --> 01:04:30,636 So these districts currently allow accessory dwellings, but there are some 1131 01:04:31,876 --> 01:04:33,436 restrictions that would really 1132 01:04:34,676 --> 01:04:36,756 damper some of those potentials. 1133 01:04:38,696 --> 01:04:40,956 We have barn conversions, which 1134 01:04:42,656 --> 01:04:46,536 is something that we're also looking at with farm worker housing, potentially. 1135 01:04:46,816 --> 01:04:47,976 That's an option. 1136 01:04:48,956 --> 01:04:49,756 Tiny homes 1137 01:04:50,876 --> 01:04:54,636 and pocket neighborhoods. Pocket neighborhoods would be small 1138 01:04:54,716 --> 01:04:56,616 cluster of houses 1139 01:04:58,316 --> 01:04:59,896 located on the same lot. 1140 01:05:01,176 --> 01:05:04,496 So not looking at something where you're going to have a subdivision come through 1141 01:05:04,576 --> 01:05:05,776 and have 20 lots. 1142 01:05:07,436 --> 01:05:11,116 Some of the obstacles that we see in these zoning districts, as I mentioned, the 1143 01:05:11,176 --> 01:05:12,376 acreage requirements. 1144 01:05:14,896 --> 01:05:18,476 When it comes to accessory dwellings currently, the RA zoning 1145 01:05:18,536 --> 01:05:22,436 district requires that you have a four-acre minimum to 1146 01:05:22,496 --> 01:05:26,436 have an accessory dwelling. Our RB zoning district requires 1147 01:05:26,636 --> 01:05:28,036 a minimum of seven acres. 1148 01:05:29,076 --> 01:05:29,436 So 1149 01:05:30,876 --> 01:05:34,476 the way it is in the current ordinance is in-law suites are not 1150 01:05:35,016 --> 01:05:36,196 a recognized use. 1151 01:05:37,056 --> 01:05:40,996 So if someone were to call me and say, "Can I have an in-law suite 1152 01:05:41,656 --> 01:05:45,026 for my mother?" I'm in the RB zoning district, and I 1153 01:05:45,136 --> 01:05:47,006 have five acres. 1154 01:05:48,196 --> 01:05:51,696 Current process would be, they would have to go to the zoning hearing board and ask 1155 01:05:51,736 --> 01:05:54,796 for a variance, because it doesn't meet the current standards of the ordinance. 1156 01:05:56,176 --> 01:05:57,956 Another- 1157 01:05:58,716 --> 01:06:00,096 Zach, can you just provide 1158 01:06:01,096 --> 01:06:04,816 for someone coming to you in that situation, what's the 1159 01:06:04,896 --> 01:06:08,756 timeline and the outlay for something like that, on average? 1160 01:06:10,136 --> 01:06:12,956 So as far as the zoning hearing board process, 1161 01:06:14,676 --> 01:06:16,456 typically you're looking at 1162 01:06:18,356 --> 01:06:19,216 two, three months, 1163 01:06:20,996 --> 01:06:23,496 just to go through that process and get a decision. 1164 01:06:24,236 --> 01:06:26,096 And there's no guarantees that that 1165 01:06:27,156 --> 01:06:30,636 would be granted. It really depends on the situation and if there's a 1166 01:06:30,736 --> 01:06:31,416 hardship 1167 01:06:32,376 --> 01:06:36,096 recognized by the municipality's planning code and the zoning ordinance 1168 01:06:36,396 --> 01:06:38,976 to grant the variance. So there's no guarantees. 1169 01:06:39,816 --> 01:06:40,036 Yep. 1170 01:06:41,336 --> 01:06:45,096 Some of the other obstacles in RARB, we see a lot of conservation 1171 01:06:45,136 --> 01:06:45,596 easements. 1172 01:06:46,856 --> 01:06:46,866 Zach? 1173 01:06:46,876 --> 01:06:47,536 Oh, I'm sorry. 1174 01:06:48,076 --> 01:06:51,656 Zach, do you know how many times you get asked for in-law suites and the 1175 01:06:51,716 --> 01:06:52,786 percentage that are-- 1176 01:06:54,176 --> 01:06:55,926 Does it happen more often than not? 1177 01:06:57,636 --> 01:07:00,456 We don't get a whole lot of accessory dwelling unit 1178 01:07:01,136 --> 01:07:02,036 applications. 1179 01:07:03,976 --> 01:07:07,476 Many times, what we try to look at is 1180 01:07:07,576 --> 01:07:11,296 if someone's doing an addition, perhaps they're not doing 1181 01:07:12,256 --> 01:07:16,156 a separate kitchen. That is one of the triggers for a dwelling unit 1182 01:07:16,176 --> 01:07:16,926 definition. 1183 01:07:17,936 --> 01:07:21,696 So we do see additions, and we occasionally will get accessory 1184 01:07:21,716 --> 01:07:25,096 dwellings, but it's not a rare occurrence right now. 1185 01:07:29,716 --> 01:07:31,836 As I had mentioned, we have a lot of properties. 1186 01:07:31,916 --> 01:07:32,176 I'd say, 1187 01:07:32,996 --> 01:07:35,916 yeah, basically almost all the conservation 1188 01:07:36,276 --> 01:07:39,236 easements are in the R-AR-V zoning district. 1189 01:07:39,896 --> 01:07:43,436 So those conservation easements will prohibit certain types of 1190 01:07:43,516 --> 01:07:44,026 uses, 1191 01:07:45,516 --> 01:07:48,996 which may not allow to do an accessory dwelling unit in any capacity. 1192 01:07:49,856 --> 01:07:51,356 And also deed restrictions. 1193 01:07:52,796 --> 01:07:56,356 And then we also have some HOA oversight in some of 1194 01:07:56,396 --> 01:07:58,236 those developments as well. 1195 01:08:07,816 --> 01:08:09,316 There we go. 1196 01:08:12,156 --> 01:08:16,137 So the next zoning district is the R-1 zoning district, and this is 1197 01:08:16,177 --> 01:08:18,076 a zoning district that doesn't have a lot of 1198 01:08:19,677 --> 01:08:23,476 hope for having any kind of accessory dwelling 1199 01:08:23,556 --> 01:08:26,416 units, but I did want to at least kind of go through this. 1200 01:08:27,166 --> 01:08:30,846 So the R-1 zoning district is a small lot 1201 01:08:30,956 --> 01:08:32,396 residential zoning district. 1202 01:08:33,316 --> 01:08:37,297 It is adjacent to Peddler's Village, and this is the Peddler's View 1203 01:08:37,856 --> 01:08:38,476 development. 1204 01:08:41,936 --> 01:08:43,596 So that's bugging in. 1205 01:08:48,656 --> 01:08:52,486 The R-1 zoning district potential opportunities, and 1206 01:08:52,536 --> 01:08:56,217 this could be far-fetched, but potentially small 1207 01:08:56,276 --> 01:09:00,116 additions or if there's existing garages to have an apartment. 1208 01:09:00,637 --> 01:09:01,876 The big problem is 1209 01:09:03,036 --> 01:09:06,837 small lot sizes, and then there's HOA oversight and bylaws that 1210 01:09:06,856 --> 01:09:09,196 probably would not permit these type of uses. 1211 01:09:10,656 --> 01:09:13,856 Zach, when you say it doesn't have hope, it's pretty much because it's already all 1212 01:09:13,996 --> 01:09:14,717 built out, correct? 1213 01:09:14,797 --> 01:09:15,316 That's correct. 1214 01:09:15,376 --> 01:09:18,137 Okay, thanks. Let's go to the next one. Thanks. 1215 01:09:31,856 --> 01:09:35,566 So the next zoning district here is the R-DC zoning 1216 01:09:35,616 --> 01:09:39,396 district. This is residential development and conservation. 1217 01:09:39,656 --> 01:09:40,576 So basically, it's 1218 01:09:42,356 --> 01:09:45,976 two areas you'll see in these areas, Fox Run 1219 01:09:45,996 --> 01:09:49,427 Estates, Fox Run Preserves, and then you're going to see some larger 1220 01:09:49,436 --> 01:09:53,066 properties along Meeting House Road, Creamery Road, and 1221 01:09:53,337 --> 01:09:54,756 Sugarland Road. 1222 01:09:56,676 --> 01:09:58,336 Some potential opportunities, 1223 01:10:00,096 --> 01:10:01,916 small additions for in-law suites, 1224 01:10:03,236 --> 01:10:06,256 garage apartments for existing garages, 1225 01:10:07,756 --> 01:10:10,376 accessory dwellings, but that's really dependent on 1226 01:10:11,536 --> 01:10:15,046 all of these properties on Meeting House and Creamery and 1227 01:10:15,096 --> 01:10:18,196 Sugarland. They basically all have conservation easements. 1228 01:10:19,136 --> 01:10:22,796 So that could impact whether or not you could do accessory 1229 01:10:22,836 --> 01:10:26,356 dwellings on these properties, and then barn conversions as well. 1230 01:10:29,716 --> 01:10:33,496 Some obstacles, small lot sizes in the Fox 1231 01:10:33,576 --> 01:10:35,276 Run Preserves area. 1232 01:10:37,496 --> 01:10:41,416 HOA oversight, bylaws, which could prevent having any of 1233 01:10:41,456 --> 01:10:42,296 that use, 1234 01:10:43,336 --> 01:10:46,896 and then more so for the larger lots, you have 1235 01:10:47,116 --> 01:10:51,096 natural resource restrictions in addition to the conservation 1236 01:10:51,116 --> 01:10:51,526 easements. 1237 01:11:00,816 --> 01:11:04,736 So the next zoning district is the residential development zoning 1238 01:11:04,796 --> 01:11:08,596 district. This encompasses Northpointe, Wil-Shire 1239 01:11:08,636 --> 01:11:08,856 Hunt, 1240 01:11:09,976 --> 01:11:13,036 Fieldstone, Hermitage, and I don't have it listed everything. 1241 01:11:13,116 --> 01:11:14,216 Amuse is also in there. 1242 01:11:16,476 --> 01:11:20,396 Potential opportunities, again, this is another difficult 1243 01:11:20,456 --> 01:11:24,256 zoning district because of it already being built out, but potentially small 1244 01:11:24,296 --> 01:11:27,836 additions for in-law suites or garage 1245 01:11:27,896 --> 01:11:28,556 apartments. 1246 01:11:30,136 --> 01:11:33,956 Obstacles, small lot sizes, and there's HOA oversight and bylaws that 1247 01:11:34,076 --> 01:11:35,556 could prevent the type of use. 1248 01:11:40,816 --> 01:11:43,456 So on this slide, we have two zoning districts. 1249 01:11:43,536 --> 01:11:45,926 They're village residential and village commercial. 1250 01:11:46,996 --> 01:11:50,116 You'll see these zoning districts in a few different spots 1251 01:11:50,196 --> 01:11:53,376 in Solbury, so it encompasses Lumberville, 1252 01:11:53,416 --> 01:11:55,656 Centerbridge, and Solbury Village. 1253 01:11:57,756 --> 01:12:01,606 Each zoning district allows for mixed use, residential and 1254 01:12:01,676 --> 01:12:03,116 commercial. 1255 01:12:04,676 --> 01:12:08,416 Some potential opportunities, small additions for in-law suites, 1256 01:12:09,136 --> 01:12:12,336 garage apartments, and looking at some broader mixed-use 1257 01:12:12,436 --> 01:12:13,215 opportunities. 1258 01:12:14,816 --> 01:12:17,996 For instance, some of the other commercial zoning districts allow 1259 01:12:18,056 --> 01:12:20,596 for a use such as a 1260 01:12:21,676 --> 01:12:25,276 dwelling unit in combination with a business, which isn't currently allowed 1261 01:12:25,356 --> 01:12:27,636 in the village commercial zoning district. 1262 01:12:30,036 --> 01:12:34,006 Obstacles, small lot sizes, non-conforming lots, 1263 01:12:35,076 --> 01:12:38,356 natural resource restrictions, and then we also have a historic district buffer 1264 01:12:38,436 --> 01:12:39,566 zone, which 1265 01:12:40,556 --> 01:12:43,916 would require basically anyone to go to the zoning hearing board to build in that 1266 01:12:44,016 --> 01:12:44,416 area. 1267 01:12:50,156 --> 01:12:53,256 So these next two districts are 1268 01:12:54,236 --> 01:12:57,996 Carversville, specifically. So Carversville has a village 1269 01:12:58,036 --> 01:13:00,076 commercial and a village residential zoning 1270 01:13:00,136 --> 01:13:04,648 district.Right 1271 01:13:04,688 --> 01:13:05,128 now, these 1272 01:13:06,188 --> 01:13:08,028 zoning districts allow for 1273 01:13:09,048 --> 01:13:10,618 residential and commercial uses. 1274 01:13:12,648 --> 01:13:16,448 Village residential is obviously residential uses, but Village Commercial 1275 01:13:16,968 --> 01:13:20,508 Carversville allows for both because a lot of the houses that are in 1276 01:13:20,828 --> 01:13:24,368 that zoning district, obviously residential, there's a few commercial properties 1277 01:13:24,428 --> 01:13:25,548 there. 1278 01:13:27,328 --> 01:13:28,788 Some opportunities, 1279 01:13:30,188 --> 01:13:33,588 small additions for in-law suites, garage 1280 01:13:33,628 --> 01:13:35,588 apartments for existing garages. 1281 01:13:38,008 --> 01:13:40,748 Some obstacles, smaller lot sizes. 1282 01:13:41,188 --> 01:13:42,948 You have a lot of non-conforming lots. 1283 01:13:43,108 --> 01:13:43,708 The lots are 1284 01:13:44,508 --> 01:13:45,448 very narrow there. 1285 01:13:46,508 --> 01:13:50,208 So there may be some real restrictions on doing any kind of 1286 01:13:50,268 --> 01:13:52,608 additions or building anything new. 1287 01:13:54,528 --> 01:13:56,128 Natural resource restrictions. 1288 01:13:58,108 --> 01:14:01,728 A lot of Carversville is in a floodplain and a flood way, so 1289 01:14:01,788 --> 01:14:05,108 that does have an impact on what kind of development can be 1290 01:14:05,188 --> 01:14:06,728 done. 1291 01:14:07,668 --> 01:14:11,628 There's also a historic district buffer zone around Carversville, which 1292 01:14:12,688 --> 01:14:15,368 some of these properties do lie in, so that would 1293 01:14:15,548 --> 01:14:18,768 potentially impact development. 1294 01:14:20,288 --> 01:14:22,808 And then, there's also HARB restrictions. 1295 01:14:23,508 --> 01:14:27,048 So if somebody wants to build something new or somebody wants to 1296 01:14:27,108 --> 01:14:29,568 change any kind of exterior architectural 1297 01:14:30,528 --> 01:14:34,468 details, they'll have to go to the HARB board and get the approval 1298 01:14:34,568 --> 01:14:34,988 first. 1299 01:14:49,508 --> 01:14:51,588 So this zoning district here is the 1300 01:14:52,488 --> 01:14:56,448 Oquinton Village Commercial. It's a VC-1, and as you can see 1301 01:14:56,508 --> 01:14:59,448 on the screen here, this is also VC-1. 1302 01:14:59,508 --> 01:15:03,328 It just didn't color orange when this was 1303 01:15:03,708 --> 01:15:04,248 taken. 1304 01:15:05,868 --> 01:15:07,748 So this also allows for 1305 01:15:08,768 --> 01:15:09,828 mixed uses. 1306 01:15:11,988 --> 01:15:14,988 Some opportunities again, small additions, 1307 01:15:16,068 --> 01:15:19,908 garage apartments, looking at if 1308 01:15:19,928 --> 01:15:23,488 there's potential for mixed-use allowances and adaptive 1309 01:15:23,508 --> 01:15:24,188 reuse. 1310 01:15:25,348 --> 01:15:28,008 Obstacles. Peter? 1311 01:15:30,688 --> 01:15:32,848 I don't need my phone. Just a quick question. 1312 01:15:34,588 --> 01:15:38,388 The emphasis seems to be on development, but in this area, for 1313 01:15:38,428 --> 01:15:38,948 example, 1314 01:15:39,968 --> 01:15:43,788 would it be feasible to do multiple lots in 1315 01:15:43,968 --> 01:15:46,548 a mixed-use redevelopment 1316 01:15:47,408 --> 01:15:51,228 that is consistent with the overall plan for the border as far 1317 01:15:51,268 --> 01:15:54,348 as making things more accessible and 1318 01:15:55,008 --> 01:15:58,988 concentrated, and still providing housing as an 1319 01:15:59,048 --> 01:16:02,748 element that may be more attainable than a single-family home? 1320 01:16:02,808 --> 01:16:06,508 Yes. I think this zoning district in particular would work 1321 01:16:06,808 --> 01:16:09,328 best for that type of redevelopment. 1322 01:16:12,488 --> 01:16:15,808 Especially with what we already have in this zoning district. 1323 01:16:16,028 --> 01:16:19,448 We have the New Hope Winery there, then you have some houses, you have 1324 01:16:19,528 --> 01:16:22,808 antique dealers, and if there's a way to 1325 01:16:23,108 --> 01:16:27,048 redevelop those areas and make it residential, have some 1326 01:16:27,108 --> 01:16:29,348 different mixed uses, I think that'd be at work. 1327 01:16:31,148 --> 01:16:32,628 Somebody else have their hand up? No. 1328 01:16:34,548 --> 01:16:34,808 All right. 1329 01:16:35,928 --> 01:16:36,628 Obstacles, 1330 01:16:38,048 --> 01:16:39,068 zoning requirements, 1331 01:16:40,088 --> 01:16:41,168 non-conforming lots, 1332 01:16:42,408 --> 01:16:44,188 limited mixed-use allowances. 1333 01:16:45,388 --> 01:16:49,228 This area's also in a Carbonate Geology 1334 01:16:49,488 --> 01:16:51,417 overlay district, so that 1335 01:16:52,248 --> 01:16:55,608 is something that limits impervious surface to 1336 01:16:55,648 --> 01:16:56,338 10%. 1337 01:16:57,768 --> 01:17:01,738 It also requires someone to do a carbonate study to see if 1338 01:17:01,808 --> 01:17:03,338 there's any carbonate features 1339 01:17:04,148 --> 01:17:07,688 in the surrounding area that could prohibit any kind of 1340 01:17:07,728 --> 01:17:09,688 additions or any buildings. 1341 01:17:20,208 --> 01:17:24,048 So this is Rural Commercial. Again, this is another zoning district where 1342 01:17:24,088 --> 01:17:24,868 things are 1343 01:17:26,688 --> 01:17:29,968 pretty built out. This is the Peddler's Village area. 1344 01:17:32,168 --> 01:17:32,988 Most of the 1345 01:17:33,848 --> 01:17:37,628 properties in this area are Peddler's Village, but there's a 1346 01:17:37,708 --> 01:17:41,228 few properties along 202 that are not, but they all 1347 01:17:41,248 --> 01:17:43,448 encompass the Rural Commercial zoning district. 1348 01:17:44,548 --> 01:17:48,528 Currently, there's no ability to 1349 01:17:48,628 --> 01:17:52,348 have any type of residential or mixed use in the 1350 01:17:52,428 --> 01:17:55,948 zoning district. So thought would be if there's any kind of, 1351 01:17:57,068 --> 01:17:57,768 for instance, 1352 01:17:58,668 --> 01:18:01,728 there's a fish store that's there now, potentially having 1353 01:18:02,068 --> 01:18:06,048 first-floor commercial, second-floor apartment 1354 01:18:06,088 --> 01:18:09,488 above that. Some kind of ability to have that mixed 1355 01:18:09,608 --> 01:18:13,188 use. And then obstacles, obviously, there's not many lots that we 1356 01:18:13,248 --> 01:18:15,288 can do much with in a zoning district. 1357 01:18:16,868 --> 01:18:17,688 Can I ask a question? 1358 01:18:18,048 --> 01:18:18,208 Yeah. 1359 01:18:18,268 --> 01:18:21,888 In Peddler's Village, maybe it's in Buckingham, there are apartments 1360 01:18:21,928 --> 01:18:25,648 above some of the stores. Is it different in 1361 01:18:25,668 --> 01:18:26,228 Buckingham? 1362 01:18:26,288 --> 01:18:28,028 Yes. It's different in Buckingham. Yep. 1363 01:18:29,588 --> 01:18:33,568 All 1364 01:18:33,608 --> 01:18:36,348 right. 1365 01:18:38,788 --> 01:18:42,588 And this is the last slide. So this is the TNC 1366 01:18:42,728 --> 01:18:46,568 zoning district. The TNC zoning district is traditional 1367 01:18:46,628 --> 01:18:49,968 neighborhood commercial, and that's our largest zoning district. 1368 01:18:50,408 --> 01:18:52,608 So this encompasses Logan Square, 1369 01:18:53,928 --> 01:18:55,698 other areas along Route 202, 1370 01:18:57,148 --> 01:18:58,428 bordering New Hope Borough. 1371 01:18:59,848 --> 01:19:02,188 Presently, it does allow for some mixed uses. 1372 01:19:04,088 --> 01:19:07,768 Opportunities are looking at some adaptive reuse opportunities and 1373 01:19:07,808 --> 01:19:11,750 redevelopment.Consider looking at 1374 01:19:11,820 --> 01:19:15,710 different multifamily dwelling options, because 1375 01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:18,509 right now it does allow for some at this point, but 1376 01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:22,240 it's specific to things like a 1377 01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:24,400 long-term residential healthcare facility. 1378 01:19:24,440 --> 01:19:27,559 But that is considered residential in our ordinance. 1379 01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:32,060 So potentially looking at what else we could add into this that already exists. 1380 01:19:33,860 --> 01:19:37,700 And then, obstacles is, there's few lots that could be developed 1381 01:19:37,980 --> 01:19:41,960 and there's also the public water and sewer, which 1382 01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:42,200 could 1383 01:19:44,140 --> 01:19:45,720 put a hamper on things as well. 1384 01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:49,940 Excuse me. There is or is not public water? 1385 01:19:49,980 --> 01:19:52,200 There is public water and sewer. Yeah. 1386 01:19:54,860 --> 01:19:56,460 That's it. 1387 01:19:57,440 --> 01:19:57,450 Okay. 1388 01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:00,790 Then also make things easier to- 1389 01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:02,560 No, it wouldn't. 1390 01:20:03,900 --> 01:20:03,950 No, 1391 01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:08,090 because it could be a problem for the capacity 1392 01:20:08,980 --> 01:20:12,010 that that specific water authority could have. 1393 01:20:12,660 --> 01:20:16,570 Doesn't necessarily mean you can't do it, but eventually we've got 1394 01:20:16,580 --> 01:20:17,720 to think about these things. 1395 01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:22,020 Yeah. Let's think the same way that focus in some of these 1396 01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:25,660 where critical sewer capacity seems like that's a limiting 1397 01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:28,140 factor in rural areas is 1398 01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:30,700 why the lot sizes are what they are- 1399 01:20:31,220 --> 01:20:31,320 Mm 1400 01:20:31,540 --> 01:20:32,400 ... because well and septic. 1401 01:20:33,860 --> 01:20:35,080 Yeah, that's a good point. 1402 01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:39,640 We've got to think about aquifers and where our 1403 01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:41,300 on-lot septic could percolate. 1404 01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:43,560 Those things would definitely come into play. 1405 01:20:45,460 --> 01:20:45,840 So, 1406 01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:50,620 just in the interest of time, what I would like to do 1407 01:20:51,180 --> 01:20:51,420 is 1408 01:20:52,300 --> 01:20:56,100 do some questions before we get into the-- thanks, Zach, 1409 01:20:56,640 --> 01:21:00,280 into this housing exercise that we're going to spend a few 1410 01:21:00,340 --> 01:21:01,740 moments on. So, 1411 01:21:03,440 --> 01:21:03,960 real quick, 1412 01:21:06,060 --> 01:21:06,340 John, 1413 01:21:09,020 --> 01:21:10,020 when you think through 1414 01:21:11,500 --> 01:21:14,960 all the facts that you reviewed and presented tonight, 1415 01:21:18,660 --> 01:21:22,569 what filters down that is the lowest hanging 1416 01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:23,020 fruit? 1417 01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:27,620 I know Zach's going to be asked the same question about what he 1418 01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:31,460 talked to us about on zoning opportunities and limitations. 1419 01:21:31,540 --> 01:21:31,780 But, 1420 01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:36,860 do you interpret 1421 01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:39,460 what you've found 1422 01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:44,480 to inform this discussion in a very 1423 01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:48,810 simple way where you'd say, "My biggest takeaway 1424 01:21:49,540 --> 01:21:49,980 and my 1425 01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:54,240 wisdom to the group is X." Is there 1426 01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:58,260 something that jumps out at you in particular 1427 01:21:58,820 --> 01:22:01,180 as you went through all of your analysis? 1428 01:22:04,020 --> 01:22:07,960 Actually just, and Zach touched on this, just knowing 1429 01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:09,780 that the RA and RB zones 1430 01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:13,760 comprise a large portion of the 1431 01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:14,380 township. 1432 01:22:15,620 --> 01:22:19,110 Looking at different types of ADUs, and I know some are 1433 01:22:19,140 --> 01:22:20,920 permitted on those properties, 1434 01:22:22,580 --> 01:22:24,190 as, I think, detached units. 1435 01:22:25,180 --> 01:22:25,290 But- 1436 01:22:25,820 --> 01:22:27,720 Sorry, I didn't hear you say. 1437 01:22:28,640 --> 01:22:30,190 Say what you said. Did you say ADUs? 1438 01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:31,360 Yeah. 1439 01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:31,680 Okay. 1440 01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:35,940 And I know ADUs are permitted in 1441 01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:38,600 those districts, but on certain acreage sizes. 1442 01:22:39,020 --> 01:22:39,750 Okay. So like- 1443 01:22:39,750 --> 01:22:40,830 Incorporating different types- 1444 01:22:40,849 --> 01:22:44,520 Sorry, you need seven acres in RB. That was like, 1445 01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:47,560 whoa, that's a lot of acres for one ADU. 1446 01:22:48,780 --> 01:22:50,780 Yeah, but there's different types of ADUs- 1447 01:22:51,260 --> 01:22:51,500 Okay 1448 01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,610 ... that have been brought up. The grant, the in-law suites. 1449 01:22:55,540 --> 01:22:55,780 Okay. 1450 01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:58,140 Apartments over garages. 1451 01:22:58,460 --> 01:23:02,270 Very good. And Zach, from your perspective, 1452 01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:07,790 I was looking around the room as you were presenting, and I was sort of 1453 01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:11,620 wanting to say, "Anybody who likes that district, raise your hand." 1454 01:23:12,100 --> 01:23:15,860 And I didn't see very many people smiling when you were doing your 1455 01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:19,780 presentation, so I thought like they were saying, "No, Zach, I 1456 01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:21,140 don't like that. Forget about. 1457 01:23:22,100 --> 01:23:22,960 Next district." 1458 01:23:23,340 --> 01:23:23,659 Mm-hmm. 1459 01:23:24,260 --> 01:23:24,420 So- 1460 01:23:25,420 --> 01:23:26,200 I like them all. 1461 01:23:26,580 --> 01:23:28,319 Yeah. Okay. There you go. 1462 01:23:29,100 --> 01:23:29,960 It's a thumb problem. 1463 01:23:30,100 --> 01:23:34,050 Yeah. So Zach, of all the districts that you looked at, and 1464 01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:37,840 those for which you have received requests to do something, 1465 01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:42,140 does any one or two districts stick out as being, 1466 01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:46,820 whether it's Aquatong to the, you said maybe adaptive 1467 01:23:46,860 --> 01:23:50,840 reuse, or any other district that you would say, 1468 01:23:50,910 --> 01:23:54,230 "It would be pretty plausible 1469 01:23:55,020 --> 01:23:58,240 to make a little bit of a change to 1470 01:23:58,300 --> 01:24:01,980 get a couple of units in this 1471 01:24:02,020 --> 01:24:05,020 district or that." Anything really stand out to you? 1472 01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:09,780 Yeah, and I think I kind of harped on this a lot in my presentation, but 1473 01:24:09,900 --> 01:24:11,920 I think RA, RB, 1474 01:24:12,780 --> 01:24:15,660 looking at potentially in-law suites. 1475 01:24:16,480 --> 01:24:19,540 Do get a lot of calls about that, and if we can do it in a way 1476 01:24:19,620 --> 01:24:20,480 that 1477 01:24:21,580 --> 01:24:24,260 is not super restrictive, but also 1478 01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:26,720 done in a way that's going to protect 1479 01:24:27,860 --> 01:24:31,640 neighbors, so someone, once that family member 1480 01:24:31,740 --> 01:24:35,620 passes, maybe having some kind of ordinance restriction in 1481 01:24:35,660 --> 01:24:35,900 there, 1482 01:24:36,900 --> 01:24:39,920 that prevents it from being rented out as a 1483 01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:43,520 for-profit apartment or something like that. 1484 01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:47,580 So I'd say RA, RB, and then potentially the 1485 01:24:48,220 --> 01:24:50,980 Aquatong Village commercial for adaptive reuse. 1486 01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:55,180 Okay. So, I'm going to invoke moderator 1487 01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:58,960 privilege because I want to keep us on time, and we only have 30 1488 01:24:59,060 --> 01:25:01,660 minutes left. I wanted to ask Katie. 1489 01:25:02,260 --> 01:25:06,110 Kate, can you lead us through the housing exercise? 1490 01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:08,240 Because what we wanted to 1491 01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:09,760 have you 1492 01:25:11,020 --> 01:25:11,420 do 1493 01:25:12,380 --> 01:25:15,740 is have the broader question to the audience 1494 01:25:15,820 --> 01:25:19,136 about-appropriateness of attainable housing. 1495 01:25:19,696 --> 01:25:21,576 So Chris, do we have 1496 01:25:22,536 --> 01:25:23,916 copies of that sheet? 1497 01:25:24,136 --> 01:25:26,255 Tom, may I ask the basic question? 1498 01:25:26,296 --> 01:25:27,376 Oh, sure, Kevin. You go. 1499 01:25:27,596 --> 01:25:30,556 We've heard from 1500 01:25:32,776 --> 01:25:36,496 some of the people, but I think it's important to ask the very 1501 01:25:36,796 --> 01:25:39,756 basic question and allow you to expand on this. 1502 01:25:41,976 --> 01:25:44,996 Do you think it is important to provide attainable housing in Solbury? 1503 01:25:45,596 --> 01:25:47,836 Flat out. I'd love to hear as much. 1504 01:25:48,396 --> 01:25:49,996 So the gentleman had two thumbs up. 1505 01:25:50,056 --> 01:25:53,016 Can we give you the mic so you go first? 1506 01:25:54,726 --> 01:25:54,726 Sure. 1507 01:25:54,736 --> 01:25:57,236 Yeah. Go ahead. 1508 01:25:57,316 --> 01:25:57,696 Thank you. 1509 01:25:58,496 --> 01:26:01,776 So again, I've been here just short of 30 years also. 1510 01:26:02,056 --> 01:26:05,616 When we came in, you could get a house for, 1511 01:26:05,676 --> 01:26:09,626 it was a $300,000 and afford. My son was 1512 01:26:09,626 --> 01:26:12,176 a 2020 graduate of high school here. 1513 01:26:12,616 --> 01:26:13,666 Out of his friends, 1514 01:26:15,016 --> 01:26:18,976 they're smart kids. They're getting work, and how 1515 01:26:19,016 --> 01:26:22,896 many of those can afford to live here? My son's 400 miles north. 1516 01:26:22,956 --> 01:26:24,716 That's out of choice, but that's another question. 1517 01:26:24,776 --> 01:26:25,376 But 1518 01:26:26,216 --> 01:26:28,026 a lot of people not 1519 01:26:29,316 --> 01:26:31,036 affording to be here. I 1520 01:26:33,196 --> 01:26:36,476 didn't make the first one, but I watched the first 1521 01:26:36,496 --> 01:26:40,456 presentation. I thought you guys did a very good job in bringing a lot of 1522 01:26:40,476 --> 01:26:43,816 people in. It was a lot of data, I think, thrown at people. 1523 01:26:44,296 --> 01:26:47,836 I'm kind of in the business, so I understand it, but 1524 01:26:47,996 --> 01:26:49,496 a lot of people have to 1525 01:26:51,616 --> 01:26:55,416 get caught up on it. So I think affordable housing 1526 01:26:55,496 --> 01:26:59,096 is important. We should have it 100%. 1527 01:26:59,176 --> 01:27:02,996 I've also been doing it a long time, and I know it's the scale. 1528 01:27:03,736 --> 01:27:06,896 And scale scares me, it scares everybody. 1529 01:27:07,036 --> 01:27:10,916 I 100% agree with that. But I think with all the people that have 1530 01:27:11,076 --> 01:27:14,106 been putting the time and thought into it, we could pick, 1531 01:27:14,976 --> 01:27:18,716 we as a whole community, pick places, two units 1532 01:27:18,736 --> 01:27:20,596 here, three units there. 1533 01:27:21,636 --> 01:27:25,246 Maybe in these districts where instead of going to four and seven acres, 1534 01:27:26,296 --> 01:27:30,276 because of restrictions and people worry about the aquifer, which I'm on well and 1535 01:27:30,356 --> 01:27:33,096 septic, that why 1536 01:27:35,376 --> 01:27:38,576 can't it be 50% more instead of four times for a lot 1537 01:27:38,616 --> 01:27:42,496 size? Things like that. And I think a little bit what we're thinking 1538 01:27:42,536 --> 01:27:46,276 about, my thought, which would be least disruptive, because 1539 01:27:46,376 --> 01:27:50,316 again, we've been here for three bond referendums, and happy that we 1540 01:27:50,356 --> 01:27:51,436 have this open space. 1541 01:27:52,586 --> 01:27:54,606 So to be less impact on people, 1542 01:27:55,796 --> 01:27:57,716 my thought was always the commercial area. 1543 01:27:57,856 --> 01:28:01,656 Why can't we have an overlay district in Logan that's probably more of 1544 01:28:01,736 --> 01:28:05,006 an investigation? What's the water and sewer capacity? 1545 01:28:05,496 --> 01:28:07,676 There can be all manner of 1546 01:28:09,416 --> 01:28:13,286 the medium- to small-sized developments worked in there that I 1547 01:28:13,336 --> 01:28:17,286 don't think anybody would notice with a lot of good planners and designers in a 1548 01:28:17,336 --> 01:28:18,976 lot of those properties. 1549 01:28:19,816 --> 01:28:23,036 That could be worked in there. So those are my quick thoughts. 1550 01:28:23,256 --> 01:28:25,156 Very good. And sir. 1551 01:28:25,976 --> 01:28:26,316 Thank you. 1552 01:28:28,556 --> 01:28:32,376 I wear a couple of hats, so I'll go through them and then say that I just only 1553 01:28:32,456 --> 01:28:36,045 speak for myself. But I am a trustee and chair of the Buildings and Grounds 1554 01:28:36,076 --> 01:28:37,976 Committee at Solbury School, and as such, 1555 01:28:40,756 --> 01:28:44,736 part of a group that is maybe one of the largest attainable housing providers 1556 01:28:44,756 --> 01:28:48,656 in the township. We have about two dozen units for our teachers 1557 01:28:49,196 --> 01:28:53,096 and members of our community that we need on campus because we are a boarding 1558 01:28:53,156 --> 01:28:54,676 and day school, and our community 1559 01:28:55,916 --> 01:28:57,636 is enriched by having 1560 01:28:58,756 --> 01:29:02,176 our faculty and some staff that are able to live on campus. 1561 01:29:02,216 --> 01:29:04,396 It's a necessity for us because while we try to 1562 01:29:05,236 --> 01:29:06,376 pay competitive wages, 1563 01:29:08,196 --> 01:29:09,416 our faculty and teachers 1564 01:29:10,656 --> 01:29:14,276 are part of a group that it's very difficult to 1565 01:29:14,496 --> 01:29:17,776 afford housing here. And one problem we have is, while we're able to provide as 1566 01:29:17,816 --> 01:29:19,596 much housing as we can, 1567 01:29:21,116 --> 01:29:25,086 and we want teachers to stay for a long time, being a teacher at a boarding school, 1568 01:29:25,136 --> 01:29:26,576 living on campus is very difficult. 1569 01:29:26,586 --> 01:29:30,376 And hopefully they're not burning out, 1570 01:29:30,456 --> 01:29:34,256 but their life changes and maybe they don't want to be on 1571 01:29:34,296 --> 01:29:36,816 campus anymore. They still want to be part of our community. 1572 01:29:37,515 --> 01:29:40,756 Where can they go? It could become very difficult for them to 1573 01:29:40,796 --> 01:29:44,556 remain a teacher with us if they need to move too far away. 1574 01:29:45,636 --> 01:29:46,736 I'm also the 1575 01:29:47,536 --> 01:29:50,336 chair of the farm committee here in the township and really appreciate the work 1576 01:29:50,376 --> 01:29:54,156 that, Tom, you specifically and the rest of the administration staff has done to 1577 01:29:54,176 --> 01:29:58,156 work with us and the supervisors on trying to come to some conclusion 1578 01:29:59,136 --> 01:30:01,016 or positive outcome on farm worker housing. 1579 01:30:02,156 --> 01:30:05,716 Because as an advocate for that, we understand that farm work 1580 01:30:05,796 --> 01:30:09,706 is essential. Our farms really 1581 01:30:09,756 --> 01:30:13,736 struggle to have the labor that they need, whether that's local labor 1582 01:30:14,216 --> 01:30:14,716 or visa, 1583 01:30:15,556 --> 01:30:17,676 where housing would be required for them. 1584 01:30:18,876 --> 01:30:22,556 So for the sustainability and thriving of our farms, we need to have some 1585 01:30:24,056 --> 01:30:25,916 accommodation made for farm worker housing. 1586 01:30:27,036 --> 01:30:30,776 And then just as a resident who's lucky enough to live on preserved 1587 01:30:30,796 --> 01:30:31,176 land, 1588 01:30:33,156 --> 01:30:35,586 I just think that there are so many 1589 01:30:35,656 --> 01:30:39,456 opportunities that would not even be noticed as 1590 01:30:39,516 --> 01:30:41,636 change in the character of the community. 1591 01:30:41,776 --> 01:30:43,296 If we're talking about 1592 01:30:44,256 --> 01:30:47,976 modest accommodations for extra units 1593 01:30:48,276 --> 01:30:51,896 on properties, these garage apartments or these in-law suites. 1594 01:30:53,756 --> 01:30:57,396 I am not interested in, and I don't think anybody here is, in 1595 01:30:57,836 --> 01:31:01,416 increasing subdivision of our open spaces that are not 1596 01:31:01,436 --> 01:31:05,216 preserved, right? So much of our township wouldn't even be available to that. 1597 01:31:05,276 --> 01:31:06,796 But we're not talking about 1598 01:31:07,636 --> 01:31:11,136 the types of subdivision that we saw over the last 30 years. 1599 01:31:11,586 --> 01:31:15,576 A very different type of housing, and a variety of housing, 1600 01:31:15,676 --> 01:31:17,416 and probably a smaller scale of housing. 1601 01:31:17,816 --> 01:31:20,136 And it would be tucked away neatly that no one would 1602 01:31:21,116 --> 01:31:23,176 Notice. I think you just said that. 1603 01:31:23,236 --> 01:31:24,176 So let's- 1604 01:31:24,316 --> 01:31:24,916 We have lost the effort 1605 01:31:24,956 --> 01:31:26,276 ... let's do this. I'm just, sorry. 1606 01:31:26,856 --> 01:31:29,756 I'm going to just keep us on schedule, if you can hold for a minute. 1607 01:31:30,226 --> 01:31:31,876 So Kate, 1608 01:31:33,296 --> 01:31:37,036 as a committee, we put together a 1609 01:31:37,096 --> 01:31:40,596 little questionnaire that is on the screen right now. 1610 01:31:40,856 --> 01:31:41,416 Could you 1611 01:31:42,216 --> 01:31:45,136 take us through that? Could you sort of orchestrate and 1612 01:31:46,196 --> 01:31:48,476 ask everyone to help weigh in on that? 1613 01:31:50,236 --> 01:31:53,936 Yeah, absolutely. So if anyone needs a copy of this worksheet, I think Chris is 1614 01:31:53,976 --> 01:31:57,736 coming around with a few. So feel free to raise your hand for 1615 01:31:57,836 --> 01:31:58,136 that. 1616 01:32:02,556 --> 01:32:06,396 So basically, the big question here when we're looking at this worksheet 1617 01:32:06,516 --> 01:32:10,176 is we're essentially asking what forms of attainable housing do you 1618 01:32:10,216 --> 01:32:13,636 think would be most appropriate for Silvery Township? 1619 01:32:14,106 --> 01:32:17,996 This isn't a question of whether or not 1620 01:32:19,976 --> 01:32:22,896 you're super in favor or super opposed, but- 1621 01:32:22,926 --> 01:32:26,416 Does everyone have a copy of that sheet to fill out? 1622 01:32:27,036 --> 01:32:29,276 Okay. There we go. 1623 01:32:32,456 --> 01:32:33,616 And ma'am, do you need one? 1624 01:32:36,956 --> 01:32:38,076 Yeah, very good. 1625 01:32:39,536 --> 01:32:41,816 Okay. So I'm sorry to interrupt, Kate. Go ahead. 1626 01:32:42,006 --> 01:32:45,816 That's okay. So for anyone who has a pen, please feel free to 1627 01:32:45,856 --> 01:32:49,686 fill out whether you strongly prefer, moderately prefer, or do not 1628 01:32:49,716 --> 01:32:53,436 prefer each type of housing that is listed here. 1629 01:32:53,476 --> 01:32:55,976 And at the bottom, you'll see there's a box for other. 1630 01:32:55,986 --> 01:32:59,836 So if you have any great out-of-the-box ideas that we haven't thought 1631 01:32:59,936 --> 01:33:02,316 of, we'd be super interested in learning that from you all. 1632 01:33:02,876 --> 01:33:05,686 And at the end of this session, we're going to be collecting these 1633 01:33:06,736 --> 01:33:09,216 worksheets to kind of get an idea of what the 1634 01:33:10,336 --> 01:33:14,176 opinions are of this group and maybe some new ideas that we haven't been able 1635 01:33:14,236 --> 01:33:15,776 to think of ourselves yet so far. 1636 01:33:17,416 --> 01:33:20,896 But so here, of the ones on this worksheet, 1637 01:33:21,496 --> 01:33:24,736 the types that we have are above-ground apartments 1638 01:33:25,716 --> 01:33:29,405 that are... Sorry. Apartments above ground floor, 1639 01:33:29,656 --> 01:33:33,536 non-residential use. So that's essentially the mixed use that Zach was talking 1640 01:33:33,576 --> 01:33:37,536 about earlier, where bottom floor is commercial, top floor is residential. 1641 01:33:37,596 --> 01:33:39,996 We have barn conversions, 1642 01:33:41,136 --> 01:33:45,036 barns that are converted to housing units, such as the 1643 01:33:45,076 --> 01:33:46,456 one I live on on Upper York Road. 1644 01:33:48,396 --> 01:33:51,796 We have farm worker housing. We have garage apartments. 1645 01:33:52,316 --> 01:33:56,216 We have the in-law suites. We have, say, a 1646 01:33:56,256 --> 01:33:58,996 second dwelling unit on a lot, that is an ADU, 1647 01:33:59,916 --> 01:34:01,876 and then tiny homes as well. 1648 01:34:04,296 --> 01:34:04,416 Yeah? 1649 01:34:04,516 --> 01:34:06,756 Can you put some definition around angle 1650 01:34:08,776 --> 01:34:09,905 size? 1651 01:34:09,905 --> 01:34:12,936 So there's a minimum square footage, right Zach, 1652 01:34:13,156 --> 01:34:14,976 per building code? 1653 01:34:15,916 --> 01:34:19,496 So, and Josh, you had made me look into this after our discussion, 1654 01:34:19,676 --> 01:34:19,936 but 1655 01:34:21,096 --> 01:34:24,525 right now in our zoning ordinance, there is a restriction 1656 01:34:24,636 --> 01:34:28,185 on minimum floor area, net floor area, and it's 1657 01:34:28,376 --> 01:34:31,816 500 square feet. So it's something we would have to look at 1658 01:34:32,296 --> 01:34:35,776 potentially amending depending on what the tiny home looks like. 1659 01:34:36,316 --> 01:34:36,656 As a 1660 01:34:38,216 --> 01:34:41,906 word, should you think about a tiny home, is 500 square feet, 800 square feet, 1661 01:34:41,936 --> 01:34:44,836 what is 1662 01:34:45,496 --> 01:34:46,676 less than 500? What is it should be? 1663 01:34:46,736 --> 01:34:48,716 It could potentially be below 1664 01:34:49,596 --> 01:34:51,596 500 square feet. I've seen some of them. 1665 01:34:55,016 --> 01:34:55,556 Yeah. They're- 1666 01:34:55,716 --> 01:34:57,236 The idea. 1667 01:34:57,586 --> 01:35:00,016 That 1668 01:35:01,836 --> 01:35:02,525 would be 1669 01:35:02,525 --> 01:35:03,056 Yeah. 1670 01:35:03,096 --> 01:35:06,116 People have tons of big homes. They're at home. Yeah. 1671 01:35:06,396 --> 01:35:07,816 But I think they're definitions that- 1672 01:35:08,516 --> 01:35:12,316 Yeah. And tiny homes can take various forms. 1673 01:35:12,336 --> 01:35:16,286 You have some that are built onto trailer frames, and then you have some that are 1674 01:35:16,356 --> 01:35:18,256 actually built onto foundations. 1675 01:35:18,296 --> 01:35:18,916 They're just 1676 01:35:20,056 --> 01:35:22,586 very low square footage as compared to your traditional home. 1677 01:35:23,076 --> 01:35:26,436 So they can take various forms and be 1678 01:35:26,476 --> 01:35:29,576 constructed in several different ways. 1679 01:35:30,416 --> 01:35:34,376 So I think that might be a good idea for looking forward, actually, 1680 01:35:34,616 --> 01:35:38,406 John and Zach, is to figure out what it is that we mean exactly by tiny homes 1681 01:35:38,836 --> 01:35:39,676 in Silvery Township. 1682 01:35:40,716 --> 01:35:43,816 And I might add, as a committee to get ready for 1683 01:35:43,896 --> 01:35:47,816 tonight. Sir, in the middle, I love what you 1684 01:35:47,976 --> 01:35:50,676 said about least disruptive. Tell us your name. 1685 01:35:52,016 --> 01:35:52,276 Mitch. 1686 01:35:52,856 --> 01:35:54,256 Mitch. So Mitch, 1687 01:35:55,356 --> 01:35:55,436 we 1688 01:35:56,316 --> 01:36:00,076 drank the Kool-Aid after the first attainable housing, and 1689 01:36:00,256 --> 01:36:04,216 we decided the images on here, in our 1690 01:36:04,296 --> 01:36:07,976 opinion, were least disruptive, but we didn't call it 1691 01:36:08,056 --> 01:36:11,996 that. So I love what you said, because in no way, shape, or form 1692 01:36:12,596 --> 01:36:16,276 did we say, "Put in Section 8, seven-story, high-rise 1693 01:36:16,376 --> 01:36:19,436 buildings." Because we know you would kick us out of the room. 1694 01:36:19,976 --> 01:36:23,936 So we got the message from the last time and the comments that were made. 1695 01:36:24,396 --> 01:36:27,776 But to Kate's point, where we left the blank on the bottom, 1696 01:36:28,836 --> 01:36:32,716 is there any other housing type under the least disruptive category 1697 01:36:33,496 --> 01:36:37,056 except for appliance box at the end of the driveway? 1698 01:36:37,556 --> 01:36:38,496 Is there any other 1699 01:36:39,496 --> 01:36:43,256 housing type that you think is not 1700 01:36:43,296 --> 01:36:46,356 reflected that we should think about, Mitch? 1701 01:36:46,636 --> 01:36:48,536 There's two things. One's 1702 01:36:49,416 --> 01:36:53,376 senior housing was brought up, and if there is a way 1703 01:36:53,656 --> 01:36:55,436 in a commercial zone where there is 1704 01:36:56,836 --> 01:36:58,556 public works who are available. 1705 01:36:59,916 --> 01:37:03,796 And it could be a small scale. Habitat and the other group that 1706 01:37:03,816 --> 01:37:06,956 were here presented, I thought, nice images of 1707 01:37:08,076 --> 01:37:11,906 not 100, not 50, not even probably 20-unit buildings, 1708 01:37:11,996 --> 01:37:15,196 but smaller buildings that could be mixed in as an overlay, 1709 01:37:15,336 --> 01:37:19,316 so some type of multifamily to create a 1710 01:37:19,356 --> 01:37:23,216 neighborhood. I think if you threw out, and people would be 1711 01:37:23,336 --> 01:37:27,316 scared off if you showed images of small lots with 1712 01:37:27,476 --> 01:37:31,472 mixed in retail and commercialAs a plan, and people 1713 01:37:31,512 --> 01:37:35,392 get scared and you say, "Oh, those are our villages we have." That's actually 1714 01:37:35,432 --> 01:37:39,012 what draws people to Solbury is besides the rural, the 1715 01:37:39,052 --> 01:37:42,992 villages. So I think it's in the design, and I think you could get 1716 01:37:43,092 --> 01:37:45,112 a small multifamily 1717 01:37:46,132 --> 01:37:48,062 that would work for senior or non-senior. 1718 01:37:49,192 --> 01:37:52,892 And you had your hand up. Which type do you think we should be thinking about? 1719 01:37:56,412 --> 01:37:58,412 When you talked about boarding homes. 1720 01:37:58,732 --> 01:37:58,952 Sure. 1721 01:37:59,312 --> 01:38:02,912 Oh, thank you. Yeah. Only because, when I look at all the 1722 01:38:02,952 --> 01:38:06,812 images on here, the one I think that people would rail against the most is the 1723 01:38:06,872 --> 01:38:10,552 farm worker housing appearance. Not the idea of it, 1724 01:38:10,752 --> 01:38:12,811 but the image that's on here. 1725 01:38:13,432 --> 01:38:13,442 Sure. 1726 01:38:13,492 --> 01:38:17,252 And I wonder about how the township 1727 01:38:17,412 --> 01:38:21,272 might be able to support that since there 1728 01:38:21,372 --> 01:38:24,072 seems to be some agreement that that's really needed. 1729 01:38:25,132 --> 01:38:27,612 And how that could be 1730 01:38:28,472 --> 01:38:30,512 integrated in a different way than 1731 01:38:31,592 --> 01:38:34,612 for it to stand out like that and be so visually different. 1732 01:38:35,932 --> 01:38:36,092 Sure. 1733 01:38:36,992 --> 01:38:40,942 Because I think there's already a stigma against 1734 01:38:40,942 --> 01:38:44,462 the building typology, and I don't want to see someone living 1735 01:38:44,492 --> 01:38:48,232 there having a stigma associated with them because they 1736 01:38:48,292 --> 01:38:51,772 live in a housing typology. It looks so different than all the others that we would 1737 01:38:51,812 --> 01:38:52,252 permit. 1738 01:38:52,712 --> 01:38:52,722 Yeah. 1739 01:38:52,722 --> 01:38:53,172 You know what I mean? 1740 01:38:53,572 --> 01:38:56,372 Yeah. So it's something for us to think about. 1741 01:38:56,472 --> 01:38:59,212 I have to say, I'm guilty about something. 1742 01:38:59,252 --> 01:39:00,652 So after World War II, 1743 01:39:02,012 --> 01:39:05,972 boarding homes started to be a term of art used in zoning 1744 01:39:06,032 --> 01:39:06,692 ordinances. 1745 01:39:06,812 --> 01:39:06,942 Mm-hmm. 1746 01:39:07,452 --> 01:39:10,392 And if you trace the lineage from the 1747 01:39:10,432 --> 01:39:14,332 1928 zoning ordinance in New York City, and then you 1748 01:39:14,392 --> 01:39:18,372 come to Philadelphia, and you get on that Route 30, and you start 1749 01:39:18,392 --> 01:39:22,172 in Lower Merion, and then you go to Radnor and Tredyffrin, 1750 01:39:22,712 --> 01:39:23,392 Easttown, 1751 01:39:24,912 --> 01:39:28,412 East Whiteland, Willistown, West Whiteland, 1752 01:39:28,472 --> 01:39:31,752 Easttown. They all had boarding homes in their 1753 01:39:31,832 --> 01:39:34,852 ordinances from about 1950 to about 1754 01:39:34,912 --> 01:39:37,452 1960, '65. 1755 01:39:38,252 --> 01:39:41,852 Because a lot of the GIs that got out of World War II, who 1756 01:39:41,932 --> 01:39:45,412 were part-time 1757 01:39:46,152 --> 01:39:49,192 work employment here, they needed a place to stay. 1758 01:39:50,452 --> 01:39:54,182 And some of the short communities have these little, like Wildwood, New 1759 01:39:54,252 --> 01:39:54,652 Jersey, 1760 01:39:55,472 --> 01:39:59,332 in the central portion of it. They have these sort 1761 01:39:59,372 --> 01:39:59,492 of 1762 01:40:00,812 --> 01:40:04,652 post-World War II boarding home zoning opportunities that 1763 01:40:04,692 --> 01:40:08,422 they converted into guesthouses and now Airbnb. 1764 01:40:08,542 --> 01:40:10,152 Like today's Airbnbs. 1765 01:40:10,212 --> 01:40:14,152 Almost like that. Yeah. But what we did is we cleansed that 1766 01:40:14,692 --> 01:40:18,512 in the '70s, '80s, '90s. We always got rid of all the boarding houses 1767 01:40:18,612 --> 01:40:22,332 because we said, "Low rent people, we don't want to create the 1768 01:40:22,372 --> 01:40:25,842 ghetto." And so we scrubbed it. 1769 01:40:26,452 --> 01:40:30,152 I would say 100 ordinances were scrubbed to no longer allow 1770 01:40:30,232 --> 01:40:34,012 that. So it's something that we hadn't talked about, but we can put our 1771 01:40:34,072 --> 01:40:36,412 thinking caps on. Okay. Just- 1772 01:40:36,532 --> 01:40:37,252 Can I just ask one question? 1773 01:40:37,392 --> 01:40:38,172 Sure. Sure. 1774 01:40:38,892 --> 01:40:42,712 The typology. So I know the township is also struggling with the amount 1775 01:40:42,832 --> 01:40:46,632 of second homes that people buy that either they are permanent 1776 01:40:46,652 --> 01:40:50,592 residences or just claim to be that by in the area, especially after COVID 1777 01:40:51,132 --> 01:40:54,812 when people were really looking for less expensive housing further from the city. 1778 01:40:55,372 --> 01:40:58,912 And we also have a ton of Airbnbs 1779 01:40:58,972 --> 01:41:02,682 that are temporary dwelling for the 1780 01:41:02,772 --> 01:41:03,392 people who are 1781 01:41:04,812 --> 01:41:05,312 seasonal. 1782 01:41:06,192 --> 01:41:08,572 And I wonder about, 1783 01:41:09,692 --> 01:41:13,592 is there a way to incentivize some of the homeowners that want to have 1784 01:41:13,632 --> 01:41:17,372 that extra income to change the levels at 1785 01:41:17,412 --> 01:41:20,932 which they charge in order to create attainable housing 1786 01:41:21,052 --> 01:41:22,612 spaces that they're already renting out? 1787 01:41:23,612 --> 01:41:25,312 Or allow for rentals to have... 1788 01:41:25,692 --> 01:41:25,892 Right. 1789 01:41:26,512 --> 01:41:30,232 Or allow more rentals, right? More houses to be 1790 01:41:30,252 --> 01:41:31,092 rented. 1791 01:41:31,192 --> 01:41:31,432 Yeah. 1792 01:41:31,632 --> 01:41:33,732 It'll be difficult to do that. 1793 01:41:35,372 --> 01:41:35,592 So 1794 01:41:36,512 --> 01:41:37,672 good ideas. 1795 01:41:37,712 --> 01:41:38,632 You can talk about one. 1796 01:41:38,832 --> 01:41:39,721 Oh, sorry, Peter. 1797 01:41:40,872 --> 01:41:44,412 Yes. I like Mitch's comments, but I don't like the concept of 1798 01:41:44,432 --> 01:41:47,962 disruptive as an aspect. We're not act-- this isn't 1799 01:41:48,052 --> 01:41:50,432 negative. This is a positive planning process. 1800 01:41:51,032 --> 01:41:54,612 I like putting it in the context of what kind of housing is best 1801 01:41:54,632 --> 01:41:58,272 aligning and compatible with the Solbury Township vision and the 1802 01:41:58,312 --> 01:42:01,972 comprehensive plan, which we're about to finish a major update that's been 1803 01:42:02,032 --> 01:42:03,872 on the works for two and a half years. 1804 01:42:04,292 --> 01:42:08,212 So it's aligning and compatible, and that's really the community vision 1805 01:42:08,292 --> 01:42:11,672 that's had tremendous community input, not just in this plan, 1806 01:42:12,252 --> 01:42:15,732 but carryover from 30 plus years of planning. 1807 01:42:15,952 --> 01:42:18,572 So I'd like to keep it in the positive. 1808 01:42:20,452 --> 01:42:24,052 The other aspect in the process of any kind of 1809 01:42:24,092 --> 01:42:27,792 development, redevelopment, the township has tremendous and 1810 01:42:27,832 --> 01:42:28,422 detailed 1811 01:42:29,732 --> 01:42:33,512 ordinance provisions that put guardrails on how things look. 1812 01:42:33,992 --> 01:42:37,882 Is it compatible with the setting, the community, the opportunity for community 1813 01:42:37,992 --> 01:42:40,312 input on each individual approach? 1814 01:42:41,972 --> 01:42:43,292 The last thing I want to mention is 1815 01:42:44,212 --> 01:42:48,112 this idea of sprinkling a few places here and there doesn't do 1816 01:42:48,192 --> 01:42:49,482 anything to really address 1817 01:42:50,812 --> 01:42:51,972 what the problem we have. 1818 01:42:52,772 --> 01:42:56,652 One last comment is there's a lot of emphasis on what the residents are 1819 01:42:56,672 --> 01:42:59,592 doing in terms of where they work and where they're going. 1820 01:43:00,272 --> 01:43:04,052 What about all those people who come into the township every day from far 1821 01:43:04,092 --> 01:43:07,452 away to do the service work, the 1822 01:43:07,532 --> 01:43:08,892 restaurants, the retail? 1823 01:43:11,472 --> 01:43:15,452 Should we be considering in our long-term planning 1824 01:43:15,572 --> 01:43:19,272 and priorities how maybe we can provide 1825 01:43:19,312 --> 01:43:22,852 for more opportunities for them to live locally, 1826 01:43:23,372 --> 01:43:26,232 including coordinating with our adjacent municipalities? 1827 01:43:27,292 --> 01:43:31,192 Okay.You didn't 1828 01:43:31,252 --> 01:43:34,812 know it, but you helped us get to the point on our 1829 01:43:34,872 --> 01:43:36,972 agenda of comments and suggestions. 1830 01:43:37,692 --> 01:43:41,572 So former Philadelphia Eagles coach Andy Reid, during the press 1831 01:43:41,692 --> 01:43:44,712 conference after the game, would say, "Time's yours." So 1832 01:43:45,812 --> 01:43:48,492 for anyone who hasn't had a chance to speak tonight, 1833 01:43:50,492 --> 01:43:51,372 in particular, 1834 01:43:52,432 --> 01:43:55,792 we want to know what your comments and suggestions might be, 1835 01:43:56,432 --> 01:43:58,872 something that we haven't said or 1836 01:44:00,332 --> 01:44:04,292 some idea that you have that you liked what we said, or you didn't like 1837 01:44:04,332 --> 01:44:07,752 what we said. So in the time that we have left, 1838 01:44:08,132 --> 01:44:09,521 10-ish minutes, 1839 01:44:10,352 --> 01:44:11,352 12-ish minutes, 1840 01:44:13,032 --> 01:44:16,492 could anyone make a suggestion on 1841 01:44:17,412 --> 01:44:21,152 what we should be thinking about as a result of these two 1842 01:44:21,572 --> 01:44:23,412 housing forms and 1843 01:44:24,612 --> 01:44:28,192 maybe something that we haven't looked at in enough 1844 01:44:28,252 --> 01:44:31,502 detail or that we should be more 1845 01:44:33,072 --> 01:44:35,811 concentrated on? So, yes. 1846 01:44:36,572 --> 01:44:40,282 One thing we haven't talked about, at least tonight, and I didn't get 1847 01:44:40,352 --> 01:44:42,712 all through the video, but I don't think it was talked about, 1848 01:44:43,572 --> 01:44:44,632 and take it however you want. 1849 01:44:45,972 --> 01:44:49,332 John had mentioned the average market value of the house is about a million 1850 01:44:49,372 --> 01:44:49,872 dollars. 1851 01:44:52,032 --> 01:44:54,912 School taxes paid on that is 11,500. 1852 01:44:56,172 --> 01:44:59,692 Township taxes is between 1,100 to 1853 01:45:00,272 --> 01:45:03,772 $1,400. Students per home in that is 1854 01:45:03,792 --> 01:45:04,732 0.45. 1855 01:45:05,712 --> 01:45:08,772 School cost per home is about $13,500. 1856 01:45:09,172 --> 01:45:12,772 Township cost per home is 2,237. Net 1857 01:45:12,832 --> 01:45:16,612 fiscal impact is a negative 3,000, but we make up for it in budget through 1858 01:45:16,692 --> 01:45:20,172 other things. With affordable home, if you estimate at 1859 01:45:20,352 --> 01:45:24,192 350,000 affordable home price, the school taxes 1860 01:45:24,292 --> 01:45:27,222 paid is 4,500. Township tax paid is 1861 01:45:27,222 --> 01:45:28,712 $375. 1862 01:45:29,532 --> 01:45:32,732 Students per home, because they're estimating it that people 1863 01:45:33,612 --> 01:45:36,712 from 20 to 40 would move in, more of those, would be 1864 01:45:36,732 --> 01:45:39,771 0.55. School cost per home would be 1865 01:45:39,831 --> 01:45:43,732 16,500. Township cost per home would be 1866 01:45:43,812 --> 01:45:47,052 2,000, and a net negative fiscal impact of 1867 01:45:47,072 --> 01:45:50,772 $13,000 for affordable housing. So it jumps 1868 01:45:50,852 --> 01:45:51,121 from 1869 01:45:52,252 --> 01:45:56,092 a net impact minus three to a net impact of minus 13. 1870 01:45:56,952 --> 01:46:00,591 So you did a lot of homework to get ready for tonight. 1871 01:46:00,632 --> 01:46:03,892 Would you be willing to share that information with us? 1872 01:46:03,932 --> 01:46:07,172 Could you email it to Chris or just the township manager? 1873 01:46:07,332 --> 01:46:09,932 And actually, Tom, if I could add to this just for a second. 1874 01:46:11,912 --> 01:46:15,272 All of us have a bunch of things to say, and I know you have a schedule to 1875 01:46:15,312 --> 01:46:18,712 keep. If you go in the township website, you go 1876 01:46:18,772 --> 01:46:22,401 into general info, there is an 1877 01:46:22,492 --> 01:46:25,992 email address. Couple of things. I would 1878 01:46:27,152 --> 01:46:30,872 love your input and as detailed as you care, because 1879 01:46:30,972 --> 01:46:34,672 I'm very much aware that there's a variety of 1880 01:46:34,681 --> 01:46:37,352 opinions in this room. Please send them. 1881 01:46:38,072 --> 01:46:41,792 And also, as importantly, ask your neighbors to send them. 1882 01:46:41,912 --> 01:46:45,632 And those who are looking at this video, I would encourage you to send 1883 01:46:45,692 --> 01:46:49,592 emails as well. Because, again, the business I'm in is trying to 1884 01:46:49,652 --> 01:46:53,332 get community opinion, trying to understand what is the 1885 01:46:53,372 --> 01:46:56,432 community opinion. The only way we can do that is to hear from you. 1886 01:46:56,492 --> 01:46:58,312 So I really do want to hear that. So again, 1887 01:46:59,492 --> 01:47:02,952 township website, general info, and there's an email address. 1888 01:47:03,252 --> 01:47:04,592 Send it to that. Thank you. 1889 01:47:04,912 --> 01:47:08,772 Kevin, we're going to grab my business cards and my email address will be 1890 01:47:08,832 --> 01:47:11,292 on there. And then I can distribute to everyone as well. 1891 01:47:11,312 --> 01:47:13,392 But for those who are looking at the video, 1892 01:47:14,612 --> 01:47:15,552 the website, please. 1893 01:47:16,812 --> 01:47:18,632 Helen, words of wisdom? 1894 01:47:19,312 --> 01:47:23,052 Not words of wisdom, but question that Shannon had brought up 1895 01:47:23,172 --> 01:47:25,252 about converting existing, 1896 01:47:26,072 --> 01:47:29,312 I don't know if this is exactly what you meant, but converting large homes into 1897 01:47:29,372 --> 01:47:33,332 maybe multi-unit dwellings. I was just curious if that's 1898 01:47:33,352 --> 01:47:37,312 anything, because I saw that Zach mentioned a lot of small 1899 01:47:37,372 --> 01:47:38,652 additions, et cetera, but 1900 01:47:40,012 --> 01:47:43,892 what about instead of building more is reworking what we 1901 01:47:43,932 --> 01:47:47,732 already have? Is that something that you've considered, and have we seen that work 1902 01:47:47,772 --> 01:47:49,172 in other communities? 1903 01:47:50,312 --> 01:47:54,272 It's a good point because in what I read from the state planning code, it says 1904 01:47:54,372 --> 01:47:56,532 rehabilitation of existing housing. 1905 01:47:57,072 --> 01:47:57,172 So 1906 01:47:58,212 --> 01:48:00,312 quite honestly, we hadn't explored that. 1907 01:48:01,392 --> 01:48:04,912 So in terms of adaptive reuse, that's a possibility, yes. 1908 01:48:09,072 --> 01:48:11,072 For Philadelphia residents who came out 1909 01:48:11,872 --> 01:48:15,632 here to visit with their families, they built their summer home across from their 1910 01:48:15,672 --> 01:48:19,512 parents' house. And it was converted because it was such a large 1911 01:48:19,552 --> 01:48:22,252 home that during the Depression, it ended up to be vacant. 1912 01:48:22,632 --> 01:48:24,652 It was too hard to upkeep because it was so big. 1913 01:48:25,182 --> 01:48:28,572 And it was converted into apartments, and my parents rented one of those 1914 01:48:28,612 --> 01:48:32,202 apartments, became friends with the owners, bought the property, 1915 01:48:32,652 --> 01:48:36,272 and here I am today, and I've been here since 1969. 1916 01:48:36,832 --> 01:48:40,632 So to watch that happen to that typology, if we 1917 01:48:40,732 --> 01:48:44,292 could just have an open mind about that, it could always be converted back in a 1918 01:48:44,452 --> 01:48:48,382 single-family mansion with maid's quarters and all of that if 1919 01:48:48,412 --> 01:48:49,812 you wanted to. But 1920 01:48:50,912 --> 01:48:54,212 it's already there. It already exists. It has embodied energy. 1921 01:48:54,272 --> 01:48:56,632 It has a lot of benefits. 1922 01:48:57,472 --> 01:49:01,072 But the other piece that I really want to applaud this group for is how 1923 01:49:01,132 --> 01:49:04,902 thoughtful you're being, and to echo what you were saying about 1924 01:49:05,732 --> 01:49:09,652 if you do it thoughtfully, you can really do just about anything. 1925 01:49:10,252 --> 01:49:13,552 And for those of you who don't understand the Solebury history of why this open 1926 01:49:13,652 --> 01:49:17,112 space was preserved, that was environmentalists who were 1927 01:49:17,232 --> 01:49:20,772 largely farmers, volunteers, and artists. 1928 01:49:21,552 --> 01:49:25,432 And if you volunteer in any of the environmental groups in this area, a 1929 01:49:25,572 --> 01:49:26,812 lot of those folks 1930 01:49:27,612 --> 01:49:31,552 are renting and are volunteering their time because they care about 1931 01:49:31,592 --> 01:49:33,912 this area and they want to preserve the area. 1932 01:49:34,372 --> 01:49:38,092 And for those of you who understand the aquifer and the 1933 01:49:38,152 --> 01:49:42,132 fact that we have a designation for public water, all of that water is drawn 1934 01:49:42,192 --> 01:49:45,712 from the aquifer that private wells draw from as well. 1935 01:49:46,252 --> 01:49:48,752 And then that public water is sent and processed 1936 01:49:49,368 --> 01:49:53,258 Either in New Jersey or over at the processing plant in Pedlers Village, and 1937 01:49:53,288 --> 01:49:57,148 then either processed and infiltrated there 1938 01:49:57,208 --> 01:50:01,068 in large holding areas or sent to New Jersey and discharged in the 1939 01:50:01,088 --> 01:50:04,268 river, never to recharge our aquifer again. 1940 01:50:04,368 --> 01:50:07,708 So really do a little understanding of why that 1941 01:50:07,808 --> 01:50:11,668 happened. The developments that moved out of Philadelphia are why 1942 01:50:11,808 --> 01:50:15,708 we protected Solebury, and also the highway that was going to 1943 01:50:15,748 --> 01:50:19,588 be planned. And so the environmentalists that created this 1944 01:50:20,428 --> 01:50:23,298 wouldn't be able to afford to live here today . 1945 01:50:23,308 --> 01:50:26,848 And I think just having one type of income 1946 01:50:26,928 --> 01:50:30,568 level is a very dangerous precedent because the amount of 1947 01:50:30,608 --> 01:50:34,528 imagination that it took to do this in the first place is just applaudable and why 1948 01:50:34,548 --> 01:50:37,028 we're all here. So thank you. 1949 01:50:37,688 --> 01:50:37,888 Yeah. 1950 01:50:38,108 --> 01:50:39,248 And thank you for being thoughtful. 1951 01:50:39,548 --> 01:50:43,168 Before Kevin closes us out, I have to 1952 01:50:43,888 --> 01:50:45,728 confess that over the last month, 1953 01:50:46,588 --> 01:50:50,318 I was thinking about... And we'll take another 1954 01:50:50,408 --> 01:50:52,908 comment before we go, but bear with me a sec. 1955 01:50:53,288 --> 01:50:54,268 I was thinking about 1956 01:50:55,588 --> 01:50:55,948 what 1957 01:50:56,968 --> 01:51:00,808 creative, really cool ideas we could hatch that 1958 01:51:01,608 --> 01:51:05,188 were truly Solebury based. So I thought about 1959 01:51:05,268 --> 01:51:05,928 Nagashima, 1960 01:51:07,228 --> 01:51:11,148 and I thought if he were still alive, I know his daughter isn't-- I think 1961 01:51:11,168 --> 01:51:12,448 the daughter did the tables? 1962 01:51:13,928 --> 01:51:17,368 Yeah. So imagine that we did the 1963 01:51:17,428 --> 01:51:21,338 attainable house in Solebury, which was the model house in the Delaware Valley, 1964 01:51:21,468 --> 01:51:24,098 which was the Nagashima house. What would it look like? 1965 01:51:24,828 --> 01:51:27,348 And then I thought about going to the second. 1966 01:51:27,428 --> 01:51:31,048 Usually, when I go to the elementary schools to do a town planning program, 1967 01:51:31,628 --> 01:51:35,348 the second graders are saints. They are very 1968 01:51:35,428 --> 01:51:38,128 forthcoming with ideas. So we would say, 1969 01:51:38,828 --> 01:51:42,768 "Draw the attainable housing type in 1970 01:51:42,848 --> 01:51:45,728 Solebury." And it'd be interesting to see how many had gables. 1971 01:51:45,888 --> 01:51:46,058 Mm-hmm. 1972 01:51:46,248 --> 01:51:48,268 Whether they lined up the windows, and 1973 01:51:49,748 --> 01:51:53,708 did the little sketches. But what would be really cool is that 1974 01:51:53,828 --> 01:51:57,648 if we are successful in doing something 1975 01:51:57,868 --> 01:52:01,348 that we would all agree to, light imprint, low impact, 1976 01:52:01,848 --> 01:52:05,148 what would it look like? And how might it distinguish itself? 1977 01:52:05,768 --> 01:52:09,528 I know some of the tiny homes that were built after Hurricane Katrina 1978 01:52:10,408 --> 01:52:12,897 were designed by some very skilled architects. 1979 01:52:12,988 --> 01:52:16,418 They're so-called Katrina Cottage, little sweetheart cottages. 1980 01:52:16,948 --> 01:52:19,198 And that tiny home, 1981 01:52:20,348 --> 01:52:24,268 can we bring up that slide that's on there, down on the bottom, the 1982 01:52:24,348 --> 01:52:26,957 tiny home example that Aaron put in? 1983 01:52:29,088 --> 01:52:32,668 Yeah. So just this sweetheart little cottage with the 1984 01:52:32,728 --> 01:52:33,878 gable and 1985 01:52:34,748 --> 01:52:38,548 sort of the little front porch and so forth, and my sense 1986 01:52:38,648 --> 01:52:41,068 is like, what's not to like when you see that? 1987 01:52:41,578 --> 01:52:45,468 Whether you saw it in Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard 1988 01:52:45,968 --> 01:52:49,688 or Cape May, New Jersey, or somewhere along the Delaware 1989 01:52:49,768 --> 01:52:52,848 River in Upper Black Eddy or whatever in 1990 01:52:52,888 --> 01:52:55,328 Lumberville. So in any event, 1991 01:52:56,368 --> 01:52:56,708 Kevin, 1992 01:52:58,468 --> 01:53:02,308 having divine intervention to all the things that we've talked 1993 01:53:02,368 --> 01:53:02,748 about, 1994 01:53:04,168 --> 01:53:07,928 where do we go from here? What do you think is 1995 01:53:08,888 --> 01:53:12,548 a next step, and what ideas do you have on 1996 01:53:12,608 --> 01:53:16,188 closing out Housing Forum number two? One other thing. 1997 01:53:16,388 --> 01:53:18,928 I apologize. The gentleman in the back had a comment. 1998 01:53:19,148 --> 01:53:21,208 You go next, and then Kevin will close us out. 1999 01:53:21,988 --> 01:53:24,108 Yeah, I just want to make one final comment. 2000 01:53:24,588 --> 01:53:27,188 My father said you live where you can afford to live. 2001 01:53:27,888 --> 01:53:31,668 And I'd like to live in Stone Harbor or Spring 2002 01:53:31,737 --> 01:53:35,048 Lake or Palm Beach. I can't afford to live there. 2003 01:53:35,708 --> 01:53:38,948 And if you can't afford to live in Solebury, you shouldn't be living here. 2004 01:53:39,348 --> 01:53:43,208 If you're a teacher in Solebury, you can live five miles down the road in 2005 01:53:43,248 --> 01:53:46,628 Washington's Crossing or Furlong or Warminster. 2006 01:53:47,168 --> 01:53:48,588 You can. And- 2007 01:53:50,048 --> 01:53:54,408 You 2008 01:53:54,508 --> 01:53:55,778 shouldn't decide who should live here 2009 01:53:55,778 --> 01:53:56,608 Well, you shouldn't decide who should live here. 2010 01:53:56,708 --> 01:53:57,398 You shouldn't do that to me either. 2011 01:53:57,398 --> 01:53:57,398 You shouldn't decide who should live here. 2012 01:53:57,398 --> 01:53:57,398 Well, you shouldn't decide who should live here. 2013 01:53:57,398 --> 01:53:58,648 You shouldn't do that to me either. 2014 01:54:03,148 --> 01:54:07,138 You should do by making an application to the state to explore this and- 2015 01:54:07,288 --> 01:54:08,328 They use the word- 2016 01:54:08,548 --> 01:54:09,268 For us 2017 01:54:09,277 --> 01:54:13,048 ... they use the word 'shall.' That can't be used in 2018 01:54:13,088 --> 01:54:16,988 legal terms. In a statute or a reg, you must 2019 01:54:17,088 --> 01:54:21,068 use the word 'must.' 'Shall' and 'may' is 2020 01:54:21,138 --> 01:54:23,258 not a legal word. You can't use that. 2021 01:54:23,558 --> 01:54:23,728 Okay. 2022 01:54:23,788 --> 01:54:26,787 In a statute or reg, you cannot use those words. 2023 01:54:26,868 --> 01:54:27,238 Now, and- 2024 01:54:27,238 --> 01:54:30,898 And the final thing I just want to say is it's really not fair to the 2025 01:54:30,968 --> 01:54:33,468 residents of Solebury. It really isn't. 2026 01:54:34,088 --> 01:54:37,838 So let me just say, the humorous Garrison Keillor's noted for saying, "If we all 2027 01:54:37,968 --> 01:54:41,528 thought alike, one of us is unnecessary." So appreciate all the 2028 01:54:41,588 --> 01:54:43,288 comments. We're going to weigh all of them. 2029 01:54:43,868 --> 01:54:46,288 But we heard from everyone except you. 2030 01:54:46,408 --> 01:54:49,908 Could you share any insight that you have from tonight, please? 2031 01:54:51,188 --> 01:54:55,168 My name is Emily. I grew up in Solebury 2032 01:54:55,228 --> 01:54:58,448 Township. I am the fourth 2033 01:54:58,528 --> 01:55:02,208 generation to live at my farm, and that is not 2034 01:55:02,248 --> 01:55:05,828 because I can afford it. That is because my 2035 01:55:05,908 --> 01:55:09,228 family did things they had to do to put me in that 2036 01:55:09,288 --> 01:55:13,168 position. It was passed down from generation to 2037 01:55:13,188 --> 01:55:13,998 generation. 2038 01:55:14,968 --> 01:55:18,378 I had to purchase it so my family could 2039 01:55:18,548 --> 01:55:22,048 stay in Solebury Township, so my parents could stay here. 2040 01:55:22,848 --> 01:55:24,448 When I was growing up, 2041 01:55:26,868 --> 01:55:30,688 it was affordable to live here. And I am a 2042 01:55:30,708 --> 01:55:32,888 realtor in the area. My 2043 01:55:34,428 --> 01:55:38,248 friends and neighbors who I grew up with can no longer afford to 2044 01:55:38,308 --> 01:55:42,168 live here, buy here, have their kids in the schools that they went 2045 01:55:42,248 --> 01:55:42,528 to, 2046 01:55:43,388 --> 01:55:46,928 and they make good money. And those who are 2047 01:55:46,948 --> 01:55:50,808 purchasing on your street or the next street over, you don't 2048 01:55:50,848 --> 01:55:54,580 know what theirfinances 2049 01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:58,340 are. But many of those people in 2050 01:55:58,420 --> 01:56:02,000 my age demographic, 20 to 40, are 2051 01:56:02,460 --> 01:56:06,200 borrowing money from their parents who got equity in their 2052 01:56:06,260 --> 01:56:09,440 homes from buying them at $300,000, and the 2053 01:56:11,500 --> 01:56:13,800 values have increased to $2 million. 2054 01:56:13,980 --> 01:56:17,840 So that being said, I want my kids to be 2055 01:56:17,900 --> 01:56:20,820 raised in a school that I grew up in. 2056 01:56:21,980 --> 01:56:25,860 I want my sister, who is a teacher at a local school here, to be able 2057 01:56:25,980 --> 01:56:29,240 to afford to raise her kids here. 2058 01:56:30,080 --> 01:56:30,600 And 2059 01:56:31,480 --> 01:56:34,790 the school is decreasing. I know my 2060 01:56:34,840 --> 01:56:38,780 neighbor's kids have to drive to Upper Makefield for 2061 01:56:38,840 --> 01:56:41,880 soccer because there's not enough kids on the girls' soccer team. 2062 01:56:41,940 --> 01:56:43,720 That wasn't the case when I was growing up here. 2063 01:56:44,400 --> 01:56:47,340 So I think this is very important in our community. 2064 01:56:47,820 --> 01:56:51,660 So the beauty of all of you contributing your ideas 2065 01:56:51,720 --> 01:56:55,280 tonight is for us to process this and to 2066 01:56:55,860 --> 01:56:56,620 evaluate it. 2067 01:56:58,480 --> 01:57:02,380 It is taped, and we can go back and look at the tape, but my request to 2068 01:57:02,460 --> 01:57:06,370 each of you is that each of you made some very important 2069 01:57:06,420 --> 01:57:10,360 comments, and if you have time over the next week to 2070 01:57:10,400 --> 01:57:11,680 pretty much say, "Okay. 2071 01:57:12,760 --> 01:57:16,600 I was there on June 4th. I made a number of comments. 2072 01:57:17,280 --> 01:57:21,240 I'm going to coalesce these comments," and you send to Chris, "Okay, 2073 01:57:21,940 --> 01:57:25,890 da-da, at the end of the day, here is my overall takeaways and 2074 01:57:25,940 --> 01:57:29,710 my suggestions for the good of the order," we would really, 2075 01:57:29,880 --> 01:57:32,940 really appreciate it, including the comments that you just made. 2076 01:57:33,280 --> 01:57:37,150 So if you have just a little bit of time to send an email to Chris on 2077 01:57:37,200 --> 01:57:38,120 that, that would be great. 2078 01:57:39,120 --> 01:57:39,640 So Kevin, 2079 01:57:40,640 --> 01:57:41,720 where do we go from here? 2080 01:57:42,160 --> 01:57:42,880 Well, I think you 2081 01:57:43,720 --> 01:57:47,240 answered part of it. I think we still need to get more community input. 2082 01:57:48,280 --> 01:57:52,080 I think the people who attended this meeting, I applaud you for 2083 01:57:52,100 --> 01:57:52,620 doing that. 2084 01:57:53,780 --> 01:57:56,100 I would love to hear from more people. 2085 01:57:58,200 --> 01:58:00,560 You mentioned, and we'll have to talk about 2086 01:58:03,539 --> 01:58:04,520 the next few days, 2087 01:58:05,760 --> 01:58:09,340 where do we go from here, but I think it has to incorporate getting more 2088 01:58:09,440 --> 01:58:10,340 community input. 2089 01:58:11,140 --> 01:58:14,940 And perhaps there is a third forum, and we have to figure out some 2090 01:58:15,000 --> 01:58:17,780 way of getting a higher attendance, frankly. 2091 01:58:18,100 --> 01:58:21,560 And also, I think we'll have to do as many creative things as 2092 01:58:21,620 --> 01:58:24,140 possible for people to look at this video. 2093 01:58:24,480 --> 01:58:25,540 And please, as I said, 2094 01:58:27,040 --> 01:58:30,780 go to the Solebury Township website, go to general info, and there's an email 2095 01:58:30,840 --> 01:58:33,680 address. Send it to that, those who are looking at the video. 2096 01:58:33,760 --> 01:58:37,360 But please, do everything you can to get additional 2097 01:58:37,370 --> 01:58:41,070 input because I think it's a big topic, 2098 01:58:42,460 --> 01:58:45,940 and we need to figure out where we go from here. 2099 01:58:45,960 --> 01:58:47,480 It's not something we can ignore. 2100 01:58:48,960 --> 01:58:49,580 So 2101 01:58:50,420 --> 01:58:51,500 I would encourage 2102 01:58:53,400 --> 01:58:56,980 input, and I would encourage your friends and neighbors to also provide 2103 01:58:57,020 --> 01:58:57,840 input, please. 2104 01:59:00,060 --> 01:59:00,260 Yes. 2105 01:59:08,060 --> 01:59:08,320 We 2106 01:59:09,440 --> 01:59:11,700 should talk about that as well. Yes. 2107 01:59:16,660 --> 01:59:19,540 So thank you, all. And if you get a chance-- 2108 01:59:20,540 --> 01:59:22,180 Oh, yeah. Let's collect the 2109 01:59:23,360 --> 01:59:27,320 pages that you filled out. And don't be bashful on the 2110 01:59:27,380 --> 01:59:30,600 way out. There's a lot of popcorn and goodies 2111 01:59:32,480 --> 01:59:36,260 for your lunch snack tomorrow. 2112 01:59:36,320 --> 01:59:36,760 Thank you. 2113 01:59:38,160 --> 01:59:39,020 Thank you, everyone.