1 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,360 regular meeting of the planning 2 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,840 commission for uh November 3rd, 2025. 5 3 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,440 is called to order at 6:00 p.m. 4 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,720 Could we have the roll call, please? 5 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,000 >> Member Peterson 6 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:38,720 >> here. 7 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,959 >> Member Sparks Gillis absent. Member 8 00:03:40,959 --> 00:03:41,680 Ziggler 9 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:42,239 >> here. 10 00:03:42,239 --> 00:03:44,799 >> Vice Chair Adler absent. Chair Williams 11 00:03:44,799 --> 00:03:45,200 >> here. 12 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,159 >> Thank you. 13 00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:49,840 >> Bill, would you lead us in the pledge, 14 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:50,319 please? 15 00:03:50,319 --> 00:03:54,070 >> Be happy to. 16 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,040 » Ready? Pledge. I pledge allegiance to 17 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,319 the flag of the United States of America 18 00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:03,439 and to the republic for which it stands. 19 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:06,879 One nation under God, indivisible, with 20 00:04:06,879 --> 00:04:14,949 liberty and justice for all. 21 00:04:14,959 --> 00:04:18,320 » Okay. Next up, approve the order of the 22 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,320 agenda. Does anybody want to change the 23 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,639 order of the agenda? 24 00:04:22,639 --> 00:04:24,880 >> Move approval. 25 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,160 Second. 26 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,160 >> Moved and seconded. All in favor? 27 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,400 >> I passes 3 0. 28 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,360 Public comment. 29 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,000 It doesn't look like we have anybody 30 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:43,270 here for public comment or online. 31 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:46,240 So, we'll move directly to the consent 32 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,400 items. 33 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,040 Does anybody want to pull the consent 34 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,120 items or have any questions about them 35 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,430 before we? 36 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,600 » None here. 37 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,479 >> I'll move approval of the consent items. 38 00:05:02,479 --> 00:05:04,160 >> Second. 39 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,199 >> Uh moved and seconded. All in favor? 40 00:05:07,199 --> 00:05:09,440 >> I 41 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,600 uh 42 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,240 and I meant just one question about the 43 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,240 uh these events. the this chart. There's 44 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,039 a a number of things on here that are 45 00:05:23,039 --> 00:05:28,320 expiring this year. Uh some have one's 46 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,759 has already expired and one is going to 47 00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:35,600 expire in a couple of days. What what is 48 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,360 going to happen with those items? 49 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,199 >> Are these the improved entitlements or 50 00:05:41,199 --> 00:05:42,560 are these projects that are under 51 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,600 construction? Uh 52 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,720 the uh it's on the first page. Page 53 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,479 eight 54 00:05:50,479 --> 00:05:54,639 is uh the uh Schaefer Family Trust. It 55 00:05:54,639 --> 00:05:59,360 says the expired uh October 30th. 56 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,360 >> Oh, 4:30. Oh, that was actually final. 57 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:02,880 So, hence why it says building permit 58 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,080 final. 59 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:05,680 >> Okay. [laughter] 60 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,280 >> Yeah. So, it's all done. And that's 61 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:08,479 actually the new Thai restaurant that 62 00:06:08,479 --> 00:06:09,600 opened up. 63 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,360 >> Okay. Okay. And then moving down to the 64 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,720 approved entitlements, the the first two 65 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,720 there. 66 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,720 >> So 1420 Mission Drive, they are out of 67 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,840 additional extensions. So going to 68 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:25,360 assume that they will not have an 69 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,840 approved building permit by the 6th of 70 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:29,759 this month considering that they haven't 71 00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:31,680 even submitted for permit. So that will 72 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,520 also die. 73 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:34,080 >> Okay. 74 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:35,919 >> So they will start back at the drawing 75 00:06:35,919 --> 00:06:38,560 board. 76 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,479 And as for the condo map, um, that one's 77 00:06:42,479 --> 00:06:43,919 a that one's an interesting one because 78 00:06:43,919 --> 00:06:45,759 that one 79 00:06:45,759 --> 00:06:48,720 we have, I believe this one is I don't 80 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,520 recall if this was the 2-year extension, 81 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,120 which I think it's the two-year 82 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,919 extension, but this has a three-year 83 00:06:55,919 --> 00:06:58,720 um development uh plan that was 84 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,000 approved. So, the map will die on the 85 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,360 25th on on December 4th, but the 86 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,160 applicant is looking to redo everything. 87 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,120 So, um, 88 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:12,800 >> we may see something on that. 89 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:14,000 >> We'll see something completely different 90 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,440 from what's been approved. So, that one 91 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,240 probably will die quietly as well. So, 92 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,560 >> okay. 93 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,800 Thank you. 94 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,160 Um, exparte communications have anything 95 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,120 to report? 96 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:28,080 >> Nope. 97 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,840 >> None here. 98 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,520 >> Uh, no. Item five, item six, discussion 99 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,350 items. 100 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,560 discussion and direction for title 11 101 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,560 chapter 13 the signed ordinance. 102 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,080 Uh 103 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,800 before we start just a comment Raphael I 104 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,960 want to uh 105 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,039 thank you and staff for the work you did 106 00:07:53,039 --> 00:07:54,800 on this. 107 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,080 Uh I know it's a lot of work. Uh Aaron 108 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,000 and I have gone through this two or 109 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,240 three times where we've had to do the 110 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,560 work that uh staff has done this time 111 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,720 and we never got any support. So I'm 112 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,039 really happy to see this finally 113 00:08:11,039 --> 00:08:14,240 something actually happening. 114 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,560 >> Well, thank you. Yeah, I mean you guys 115 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:17,919 started the work back in uh I want to 116 00:08:17,919 --> 00:08:21,080 say 201819 give or take. So before that 117 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,510 [laughter] 118 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,440 » well before you this evening is actually 119 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,120 it's not the finished product. It's our 120 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,120 draft sign ordinance uh planning 121 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,360 commission review. So, just to give 122 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,360 everyone who's watching or will watch 123 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,440 this uh in the future a little bit of 124 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:36,640 background on where we're at with this 125 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,039 thing. So, uh we've been talking about a 126 00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:41,200 new sign ordinance since I started here. 127 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,680 Um we did hold a joint workshop on March 128 00:08:43,680 --> 00:08:45,519 13, 2025 with the planning commission 129 00:08:45,519 --> 00:08:48,399 and the DRC. Um that we got a little bit 130 00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:51,040 of direction on. Um and from that 131 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,720 direction we ended up starting beginning 132 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,880 a series of of feedback from the design 133 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,200 review committee beginning in June. Uh 134 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,959 held one in August and October. And so 135 00:09:00,959 --> 00:09:03,279 at this point we're really preparing the 136 00:09:03,279 --> 00:09:05,600 admin draft for city council in January 137 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,440 2026. So what that means is it's still 138 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,680 an admin form. This you're not adopting 139 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:11,760 something tonight. Uh but we're just 140 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:13,839 basically asking for your feedback and 141 00:09:13,839 --> 00:09:16,640 comments and then we are looking for a a 142 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,640 target adoption as of February. So 143 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,480 essentially what'll end up happening is 144 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,080 uh we'll we'll take this to city 145 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:23,920 council. If we can get it into the end 146 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,519 of the year, that'd be great for their 147 00:09:25,519 --> 00:09:27,040 feedback. If not, we'll roll out the 148 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,040 first January meeting and then we'll 149 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,200 target um February for us to actually 150 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,279 begin the adoption process. And of 151 00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:37,040 course, our city attorney will still 152 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:38,720 need to take a look at this who's on the 153 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,200 line uh if you have any questions. So 154 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:42,800 the basis for the amendments are really 155 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:50,720 four-fold. Uh first is to modernize our city sign regulations. if uh we've had these in place since 2012. We 156 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:55,279 attempted in 2018 and 19 to amend these. 157 00:09:55,279 --> 00:09:56,880 Um just they've never really gone 158 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,279 anywhere. Um we're really trying to 159 00:09:59,279 --> 00:10:00,880 ensure legal defensibility and first 160 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,560 amendment compliance. That's the biggest 161 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:05,760 key. Um third is we're trying to adapt 162 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,839 to new technology and listening to the 163 00:10:07,839 --> 00:10:10,160 needs of our businesses. And then the 164 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,160 last but not least one is maintaining 165 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,880 our Danish village aesthetic. That's 166 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:16,480 really what it comes down to is. So we 167 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,279 have these competing sort of things all 168 00:10:19,279 --> 00:10:21,680 glancing into one in terms of we have 169 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:24,240 this brand we want to maintain. Uh but 170 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:25,839 our siding ordinance hasn't really kept 171 00:10:25,839 --> 00:10:29,920 up with any uh case law and over the 172 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,760 last 10 years and then of that we just 173 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,000 you know we're trying to balance the 174 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,440 what we're hearing from the business 175 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,279 community. 176 00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:41,680 So, one of the the big items that our 177 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:44,000 siden ordinance really falls short on is 178 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,040 this idea of of content neutrality. And 179 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:52,079 so, what the draft ordinance so far is align with the big court case from 180 00:10:52,079 --> 00:10:54,079 2015, which was Reed versus the Town of 181 00:10:54,079 --> 00:10:56,880 Gilbert. Um, so we've really removed 182 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,959 messagebased distinctions, i.e. 183 00:10:58,959 --> 00:11:00,800 political signs, real estate signs, 184 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,640 construction signs, all those have sort 185 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,720 of been removed out of the ordinance, 186 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,399 and instead we're really regulating 187 00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:08,399 based on physical attributes, placement, 188 00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:10,000 and duration. So, time, place, manner is 189 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,480 really what it comes down to. Um, we've 190 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,360 removed the idea of colors. We move the 191 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,600 idea of logos that and the and fonts, 192 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,480 etc., and really just drilling down to 193 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,640 time, place, manner, but we want it to 194 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,320 look with a certain aesthetic. and 195 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,240 that's sort of been the legal standing 196 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,720 since about 2015. 197 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,160 The other one is just allowing 198 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,240 non-commercial messages to substitute on 199 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,959 any sign structure. So, we've recently 200 00:11:36,959 --> 00:11:39,600 had this uh where a property owner 201 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,279 decided to place a non-commercial 202 00:11:41,279 --> 00:11:43,920 message sign up. Most certainly can do 203 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,800 it. That's within their realm. Um it's 204 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,399 just we need needed to make it very 205 00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:50,800 clear that it's it can substitute for an 206 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,480 allowed sign. So again, just really 207 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,320 trying to punch up that language to make 208 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,880 sure we're consistent with federal case 209 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,720 law. 210 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,399 The next sort of set that we were 211 00:12:00,399 --> 00:12:03,600 looking at is modernizing our sign code. 212 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,519 Uh so this includes streamlining 213 00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:08,880 language and much more clear intent. So 214 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,079 um our code was in is ambiguous that it 215 00:12:12,079 --> 00:12:15,040 has language that it prefers or 216 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,480 recommends or et we sort of eliminated 217 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,480 that. We've also simplified the 218 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,160 permitting process and we've so we're 219 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,880 introducing administrative sign permits 220 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,920 and so that's sort of been this in in 221 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:36,320 the 2018 2019 effort city staff um had attempted to go ahead and get sign 222 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,959 uh permits all administrative which for 223 00:12:38,959 --> 00:12:41,360 most municipalities actually is what 224 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,959 they do. It's the kind of the standard. 225 00:12:42,959 --> 00:12:44,880 Signs are are typically again time place 226 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,959 manner. There's not much to it. Uh of 227 00:12:46,959 --> 00:12:48,399 course with solving we're a little bit 228 00:12:48,399 --> 00:12:50,000 different. uh we definitely want to 229 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,560 maintain our aesthetic and our look. So, 230 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:55,760 we kind of also had the idea of of 231 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,360 streamlining it that way, but we've 232 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,200 heard back from this planning commission 233 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,680 and the DRC. And so, we're going to sort 234 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:03,040 of split the difference a little bit. 235 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,440 So, what we've written in is some 236 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,200 signage will be done administratively. 237 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,000 So, many temp signs, uh A-frame signs 238 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,399 that we will allow in um those will be 239 00:13:12,399 --> 00:13:13,920 done administratively or over the 240 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:14,880 counter. So, they don't need to go to 241 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,760 DRC. The big one that it actually will 242 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,240 change out is suspended signs. So those 243 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:21,360 are the ones that you mainly see along 244 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:22,560 your sidewalks. Those are your 245 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:24,560 pedestrian oriented signs that hang from 246 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:26,959 the building. If you're using the same 247 00:13:26,959 --> 00:13:28,800 hardware and you're using everything and 248 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,240 you're only changing out the sign and it 249 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,639 meets all the intent of the code, you 250 00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:34,639 can get it over the counter. It's as 251 00:13:34,639 --> 00:13:39,519 simple simplistic as that. Um the DRC 252 00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:42,720 did wanted a caveat stating that if they 253 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,279 uh applicant came back with a wall sign 254 00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:47,200 in six months or a time frame 255 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,440 essentially, we've put down 6 months. So 256 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:50,959 we'll make it pretty clear that hey, if 257 00:13:50,959 --> 00:13:52,320 you're going to do a wall sign that we 258 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:53,839 want to see it all as one package, but 259 00:13:53,839 --> 00:13:56,000 if you're really just aiming to get 260 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,839 something up and and get it going and 261 00:13:57,839 --> 00:13:59,279 you're not doing much and you're just 262 00:13:59,279 --> 00:14:01,279 doing that, let let's do that over the 263 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:03,600 counter. So sort of a test run is 264 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:04,880 probably the best way of taking a look 265 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,920 at it. Um if everything works out pretty 266 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,720 well then uh maybe it might be something 267 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,600 in a future goal to amend further signs 268 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,800 uh to go into by right administrative 269 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,040 permit only. Um but for now we got to 270 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:20,480 run a test balloon and that's the test 271 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,360 balloon we're going to run. The other uh 272 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,040 is the objective design measurement 273 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,720 standard. So again, getting rid of our 274 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,959 current language, um, amending our 275 00:14:30,959 --> 00:14:32,959 current language that discussed colors, 276 00:14:32,959 --> 00:14:34,880 that discussed fonts, that discussed 277 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,680 logos, and inability to put on a 278 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,240 website, etc. That's content based, 279 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:41,519 that's message based. We're not supposed 280 00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:43,839 to be looking at it. So instead, we're 281 00:14:43,839 --> 00:14:45,360 looking really at objective standards 282 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,160 instead. And so what that means is what type of material is being 283 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,279 utilized for the sign? How tall is it? 284 00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:53,920 How big is it? Where is it located? 285 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,240 those type of things that are much more 286 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,800 definitive and objective that's falls in 287 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,279 line with uh federal case law. And then 288 00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:03,120 the other one is is integrating with our 289 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,839 updated design handbook. So we have a 290 00:15:05,839 --> 00:15:08,959 set of I where that's where we can say 291 00:15:08,959 --> 00:15:10,880 hey if you're looking for this type of 292 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,639 design aesthetic this is probably much 293 00:15:12,639 --> 00:15:15,279 more pleasing. Uh but again it's more 294 00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:18,320 it's essentially uh not necessarily a 295 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,800 recommendation but just hey this is what 296 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,399 we tend to prefer more so than anything 297 00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:24,000 else and sort of integrating those two 298 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,760 together. 299 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,079 So some of the proposed new signage uh 300 00:15:28,079 --> 00:15:29,760 that's in our ordinance is the 301 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:31,680 regulation of murals. This is something 302 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,480 where uh city staff did spar with the 303 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,240 DRC um and by city staff meaning myself 304 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,720 and the extension of our city attorney 305 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,600 um our city attorney's office. Um, so 306 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,440 currently our ordinance actually doesn't 307 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,800 regulate murals. It's a blank. Um, 308 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,519 murals are are great is that they add 309 00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:53,199 some vibrancy, especially to blank 310 00:15:53,199 --> 00:15:55,120 walls. Uh, but there are pitfalls to 311 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:56,800 those, particularly when it comes to 312 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,320 what's being painted and what the 313 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,040 message is. Um, best practices is sort 314 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,639 of stay out of that realm and just say, 315 00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:04,880 "Hey, look, as long as you've met these 316 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,199 criterias, we are okay with it." Um, so, 317 00:16:09,199 --> 00:16:12,000 uh, while we overheard the DRC and we 318 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,720 took in their, um, we did modify some of 319 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,639 the language, uh, based on their 320 00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:18,639 suggestions, we are still going to be 321 00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:20,639 recommending to council that this is 322 00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:22,959 done at an administrative level as long 323 00:16:22,959 --> 00:16:25,600 as you've met the criteria for it. And 324 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,160 again, art is extremely subjective. Uh, 325 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,560 it's the eye of the beholder. uh what 326 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:35,600 one um sort of uh beer cup looking thing 327 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,519 that sits in the median is a beer cup 328 00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:40,240 looking thing versus a trophy. It's a 329 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,320 whole different story. Uh what is a 330 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,160 stein versus a trophy versus what is 331 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,240 art? It's all subjective. So again, 332 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,800 rather just keep the metrics in there in 333 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,480 terms of up upkeep of maintenance. Where 334 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,360 is it located at? Is it visible? How big 335 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,120 is it? How long are you going to install 336 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,360 it, etc. 337 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:00,959 um allowance for A-frame signs. That's 338 00:17:00,959 --> 00:17:03,920 something we heard from our workshop. Um 339 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:05,280 so in this instance, we are going to 340 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,760 allow A-frame signs. Um they will not be 341 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,760 allowed in the rightway. Uh they will 342 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,600 require a sign permit that will require 343 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,079 to be reviewed. Um there is something uh 344 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:16,559 that we're proposing is an actual change 345 00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:18,959 out of the sign face every 30 days 346 00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:20,160 because that's the intention of the 347 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,319 A-frame sign. It's really to draw a 348 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:23,679 customer in whether you have a sale, 349 00:17:23,679 --> 00:17:25,679 whether special, the day, etc. Again, 350 00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:27,120 we're not looking at regulating the 351 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:29,360 message um or the content. We're just 352 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:30,720 simply saying, "Hey, if you can change 353 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,880 out that face every 30 days, that's 354 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,880 great." And again, that sort of prevents 355 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,120 this idea of purchasing an A-frame sign 356 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,880 and just having a static message all day 357 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,640 long. And really, the intention of the 358 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,120 A-frame sign is to advertise something 359 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:46,000 different, whether again weekly special, 360 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,400 nightly special, a sale, a new item, and 361 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,640 just really and leaving that up to our 362 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:57,679 business owners. But again asking for a a change in the face every 30 days as 363 00:17:57,679 --> 00:17:59,760 part of the issuance of the permit and 364 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:01,760 again time place manner regulations. So 365 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,440 the sign needs to come in at the end of 366 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:04,559 the business day. It just can't 367 00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:06,400 permanently stay out. Can't be lit. 368 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,200 Can't have balloons on it. Um and it 369 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,039 can't be located on right away. It needs 370 00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:13,039 to be located within x amount of feet 371 00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:15,280 from the door. It needs to keep a ADA 372 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,120 path cleared. So, there's regulations 373 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:19,440 that are time, place, manner, uh, to try 374 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,600 to streamline that, but allow for our 375 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,400 businesses to utilize the A-frame signs, 376 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,000 wayfinding, and directional signage for 377 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,520 pedestrians. This is actually new. Um, 378 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,360 currently we kind of have that. We kind 379 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,840 of don't. Uh, we I think at best what 380 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,600 you're you're seeing is the directional 381 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,320 signage that's been in planters. Um, 382 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,679 which again is great. Uh, has kind of 383 00:18:41,679 --> 00:18:43,679 worked. Um, but planters aren't 384 00:18:43,679 --> 00:18:45,840 technically permanent. there's no 385 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,760 foundation to it. Some of them have bolt 386 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,440 they think that the way around it is 387 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,120 they said well if the planter is 388 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:52,799 permanent and boltered in we we'll call 389 00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:55,440 it good but then that becomes a sticky 390 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,679 wicket. So at this point we're we've 391 00:18:57,679 --> 00:19:00,320 introduced these this type of signage 392 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,720 again with objective standards that it 393 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,799 is a permanent sign structure. It can't 394 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:06,720 be in a planner. It has to meet the 395 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,760 objective criteria and again it equals 396 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,400 the playing field for everybody. um 397 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,000 umbrella awning and freestanding signs 398 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,600 are clarified. Um and so those that's uh 399 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,160 some of our umbrella sign uh language 400 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,640 was not very clear. Um our freestanding 401 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,120 signage is now clarified. And then uh 402 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:26,640 digital limited signs limited and 403 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,160 standardized. So again, this is part of 404 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,840 that message of eliminating content 405 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,360 base. One of the biggest ones is have 406 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:34,000 neon signs. Uh neon signs is strictly 407 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,919 prohibited except for a hotel use. 408 00:19:35,919 --> 00:19:38,000 That's content. Sorry, can't have that. 409 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,679 So we've heard loud and clear to just 410 00:19:39,679 --> 00:19:42,320 eliminate straight up. 411 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,640 um revised standards. So again, 412 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,000 illustrating measurement and standards. 413 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,360 You see that in your staff report and 414 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:50,960 we'll continue to um try to include as 415 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,400 many images to help city staff and 416 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,240 business owners uh determine how to do 417 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,480 that. Um objective limits for area, 418 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,000 height, and placement. One of the bigger 419 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,480 issues in and allowances what we've done 420 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:03,919 is we've actually increased the amount 421 00:20:03,919 --> 00:20:06,559 of signage that you can do um in terms 422 00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:09,760 of the letter height. Um, and we've sort 423 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,600 of given you this box to say, "Hey, if 424 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,919 this is based on your linear footage. 425 00:20:13,919 --> 00:20:17,120 So, if you have 50 feet of frontage, 50 426 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:19,919 ft is your max, you go figure it out. 427 00:20:19,919 --> 00:20:21,760 We're not going to tell you how to 428 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,360 figure it out, but you as the business 429 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:24,880 owner need to go figure out. So, if you 430 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,120 want to put all your eggs in one basket 431 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:28,960 in a sign, be our guest. That's 432 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,280 perfectly fine by us. Um, if you want to 433 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:32,640 split the difference, which most people 434 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,240 do, they'll split it between a suspended 435 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,039 sign, a regular wall sign, or a sign on 436 00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:39,360 a on an awning, perfect. That's 437 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,280 fantastic. But you got to figure this 438 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:42,880 out. We'll give you the box to play 439 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,200 with. And that's a big fundamental 440 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,799 difference versus what our current 441 00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:49,360 ordinance is. It accepts a window sign 442 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:52,240 and accepts a umbrella sign and it 443 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,720 accepts a suspended sign. So you start 444 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,880 having all these sign exceptions and 445 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,559 that's where you really do get the sign 446 00:20:58,559 --> 00:21:01,280 clutter versus just stating you got 50 447 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,159 square feet to work with. Figure it out. 448 00:21:04,159 --> 00:21:05,679 You as the business owner and if it 449 00:21:05,679 --> 00:21:08,080 doesn't work, cool. Then you do 450 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,919 something new. But you got to figure it 451 00:21:09,919 --> 00:21:13,120 out all within your 50 square ft. 452 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:16,320 Whether it's uh a new whether it's a 453 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,320 display sign that's in the front coupled 454 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,440 with a new awning sign, etc. Again, it's 455 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,280 really putting the the power back in the 456 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,919 business owner's hands. We're actually 457 00:21:25,919 --> 00:21:28,400 proposing illumination standards [gasps] 458 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,360 for a town that really uh really really 459 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:32,799 wants dark skies. It was kind of 460 00:21:32,799 --> 00:21:34,400 shocking to not have an illumination 461 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,240 standard. We got that in. So, that's 462 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,840 what we're proposing out. And then 463 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,600 again, strengthening our maintenance and 464 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,080 repair requirements. Um the couple 465 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,360 sections sort of left it up to uh the 466 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,080 director but gave no time frame. um 467 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,240 others were out of whack with existing 468 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,559 code sections. So really we streamlined 469 00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:54,400 it. We made it consistent with our 470 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,559 chapter one that already deals with it 471 00:21:56,559 --> 00:21:58,559 and again just really trying to clean it 472 00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:00,080 up. 473 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,000 Um and then as mentioned before looking 474 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,280 at the streamline review, the 475 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,919 administrative permits um really looking 476 00:22:05,919 --> 00:22:08,640 at the DRC um to handle more of the 477 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,360 complex applications. So, um, again, 478 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:13,679 those wall signs or sign programs go to 479 00:22:13,679 --> 00:22:17,440 them. And then making a very clear 480 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,080 appeal section and exception procedures. 481 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,080 So, right now, that's not very clear of 482 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,559 where that goes. Um, our findings have 483 00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:26,400 been cleaned up. And again, we're 484 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,640 looking for if we're loosening up the 485 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,640 sign ordinance, you better have a very 486 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,080 good reason why you're looking for an 487 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,720 exception. And then again, consolidating 488 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,400 our enforcement and compliance under our 489 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,039 city code. So that's basically the 490 00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:41,840 overview of what is being proposed in 491 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,840 the draft signed ordinance. Your tasks 492 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,840 this evening are just to provide 493 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,159 comments and feedback. Uh provide any 494 00:22:48,159 --> 00:22:50,559 directions or modifications and ask 495 00:22:50,559 --> 00:22:52,240 questions of say you staff because again 496 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,640 this isn't um the last time we'll be 497 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:55,760 checking in with the planning 498 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,240 commission. Um but we are almost there 499 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,720 to sort of finish up and wrap up uh the 500 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,159 sign ordinance which has been many years 501 00:23:02,159 --> 00:23:03,760 in the making. And with that I'll turn 502 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,149 it over to commission for any questions. 503 00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:10,720 So, any immediate questions before we go 504 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,640 to public comment? 505 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,760 >> I I do. Raphael, could you um do we have 506 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,840 any regulation on murals? And if so, 507 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,559 could you talk about that a little bit 508 00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:21,840 >> in the current ordinance or in the 509 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:22,880 proposed ordinance? 510 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,559 >> Well, you indicated that you did not 511 00:23:24,559 --> 00:23:25,919 want to restrict, but I don't know what 512 00:23:25,919 --> 00:23:27,679 you currently have. So, I guess 513 00:23:27,679 --> 00:23:28,960 >> we don't have anything in the current 514 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,320 ordinance, which is why we're proposing 515 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:31,440 it now. 516 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,720 >> And what are you proposing? So, in the 517 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,440 current section, it's it's coming it's 518 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,799 called out in the proposed um side 519 00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:43,520 ordinance. It it's called out as its own 520 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,080 sort of specialty signage. 521 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,320 >> And so 522 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,039 here it sort of defines what a mural is, 523 00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:53,360 what's the purpose, exempt from sign 524 00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:54,400 consideration. 525 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:55,760 >> Page 29. 526 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,120 >> Yeah, page 29 and 30. 527 00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:59,440 >> Thank you. And then it really the review 528 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,679 authority falls onto the director and 529 00:24:01,679 --> 00:24:04,880 then as long as the standards are and the first standard is a 530 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,200 non-commercial content. A mural is 531 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,720 non-commercial. It doesn't contain any 532 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,039 logo, trademark, trade names or other 533 00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:13,120 commercial identifiers. And if the 534 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:14,960 primary purpose is aesthetic, cultural 535 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,080 or expressive rather than advertise. Uh 536 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,919 so case in point, you get a nice little 537 00:24:19,919 --> 00:24:22,640 mural of of a Coke bottle. It's a Coke 538 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,840 bottle. So it's it's pretty there. uh 539 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,360 locations just located on the exterior 540 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,039 wall or permanent surface visible from 541 00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:31,200 the public rideway. Uh just making sure 542 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,200 that any lighting shall be directed to 543 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,640 prevent any glare on the adjacent 544 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,520 properties. Um safety is to not cover 545 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,080 windows or doors and then ensuring a 546 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,080 maintenance and then putting a limit on 547 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,919 the number of murals which is one per building or property whichever is 548 00:24:45,919 --> 00:24:46,799 less. 549 00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:50,799 >> So um I I understand the free speech 550 00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:53,120 component of things. Um, what if 551 00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:55,520 something were proposed that was 552 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,720 patently offensive? Um, 553 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,440 swastikas and things of that nature. 554 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,440 How, if you have no standard, how would 555 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:04,640 you regulate that? I 556 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,720 >> I will turn that question over to our 557 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,480 city attorney, Taylor, who is on 558 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,960 >> course. So, um, patently offensive 559 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,480 speech, there's a different standard for 560 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,640 it, and hate speech that's specifically 561 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,159 defined and treated differently under 562 00:25:16,159 --> 00:25:18,400 the First Amendment. So if something did 563 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,120 come up that was proposed that fell into 564 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:23,200 those categories, the city would be able 565 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,919 to to regulate that and essentially say 566 00:25:25,919 --> 00:25:26,799 no. 567 00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:28,559 >> Thank you. 568 00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:30,320 Yeah, it would it would still require a 569 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,159 permit. So it would still require a 570 00:25:32,159 --> 00:25:34,720 submitt required for us to review to 571 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,960 make sure it meets the criteria. Um 572 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,679 we're we're just not taking it and 573 00:25:39,679 --> 00:25:43,200 bubbling it up to um the powers that be. 574 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,120 Unless, of course, we most certainly 575 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,600 have to. And in in an application like 576 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,080 that, most certainly we could reference 577 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,640 out to the DRC first and have them take 578 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,960 a crack in a public hearing. Um, that's 579 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,799 always within the director's ability to 580 00:25:56,799 --> 00:25:59,279 do that. Uh, but again, it it's just 581 00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:00,960 administratively we want to continue to 582 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,640 just keep that at a staff level. 583 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,510 >> I appreciate the clarification. 584 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,360 I will have a question um on a specific 585 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:16,000 item. when you get to 1113 586 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,960 7 AE 587 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:19,600 um 588 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,679 >> why don't we go to public comment okay 589 00:26:21,679 --> 00:26:24,960 >> before we get into the individual if 590 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,240 that's okay 591 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,400 >> sure 592 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,240 >> okay well well we'll take it to public 593 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,159 comment 594 00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:35,279 uh there's nobody here there's nobody 595 00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:37,679 online 596 00:26:37,679 --> 00:26:40,559 so we'll close public comment and bring 597 00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:43,120 it back to the commissioner 598 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:45,919 Bill, I interrupted you. 599 00:26:45,919 --> 00:26:49,200 >> No worries. That's appropriate. Um, so 600 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,240 what I found was in that section, let me 601 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:52,799 get to it. 602 00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:53,760 >> Yeah. What was that section? 603 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,960 >> It was 11-13-7 604 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,760 capital A, little E. And um, 605 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,520 >> page 606 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,200 around page 20 or so. 607 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:05,919 >> 22. 608 00:27:05,919 --> 00:27:08,480 Thank you. 609 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,470 >> Get there to 610 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,360 Um, I just had a question about time of 611 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:17,679 display. You have none listed. So that 612 00:27:17,679 --> 00:27:19,600 indicate that you're not allowed to do 613 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:20,320 that. 614 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,240 >> Um, as in there's we don't have a 615 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,200 duration of time of display as in 180 616 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,559 days, 6 months. Um, and we can most 617 00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:29,679 certainly change the language. 618 00:27:29,679 --> 00:27:30,799 >> So no restriction. 619 00:27:30,799 --> 00:27:32,240 >> Correct. So, 620 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,320 >> um yeah, 621 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,400 >> we just don't want to and the r the 622 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,760 rationale is we do not want to uh 623 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,320 specifically limit um non-commercial 624 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,000 signs on residential properties whether 625 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,760 it's 626 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,039 you know elections are completely 627 00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:48,480 different that they got their own sort 628 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,400 of guidelines and everything but but 629 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,480 more so if you want to support the 630 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,080 troops or you want to voice your opinion 631 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,760 on whatever administration's in place or 632 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,120 whatever or product dour or or keep your 633 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:05,600 goats in your yard. I we just don't want 634 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,789 to we don't want to limit that. 635 00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:13,600 » Okay. I have just 636 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,600 I I have a lot of things to to mention. 637 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,799 None of them major I hope. Uh but just 638 00:28:20,799 --> 00:28:23,279 one general question. 639 00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:27,679 Uh in the past, our biggest problem with 640 00:28:27,679 --> 00:28:29,760 the signed ordinance, aside from people 641 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,000 complaining about it, is a lack of 642 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,399 enforcement. 643 00:28:36,399 --> 00:28:39,919 Are there any plans of foot to actually 644 00:28:39,919 --> 00:28:42,799 enforce these regulations? 645 00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:44,880 >> Yeah, that's the intention of this. When 646 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,000 somebody gets a sign approved, 647 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,399 is there's somebody that's going to go 648 00:28:50,399 --> 00:28:52,720 out and look at the sign when it's up 649 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,840 and say, "Yes, that's that's what was 650 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,720 approved or no, it's not." Because a lot 651 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,799 of times people make changes in the 652 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:03,520 process of putting up their signs. 653 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,640 >> Yeah. So I mean that so with the sign 654 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,360 permit obviously um there there is 655 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,440 supposed to be followup and and and for 656 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,880 the most part most people when they put 657 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,840 permanent signage it is what it is. Um 658 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,600 as far as the temporary signs that's a 659 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,399 different story. That's end of story is 660 00:29:20,399 --> 00:29:23,039 yes there will be enforcing to it. Um 661 00:29:23,039 --> 00:29:25,279 we'll be since code enforcement and 662 00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:27,039 compliance is in our community 663 00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:28,960 development department. I'll be working 664 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,559 very closely with our code compliance 665 00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:32,720 officer to make sure our A-frame signs 666 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,360 and temporary banner signs are are done 667 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:36,799 at the time frame to which they're 668 00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:38,159 approved and taken down at the time 669 00:29:38,159 --> 00:29:39,120 frame in which they're supposed to be 670 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,720 taken down. So there there very much is 671 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,399 enforcement that goes with it as there 672 00:29:44,399 --> 00:29:47,520 is today and very much follows our our 673 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:57,269 policies for um enforcing our ordinance. 674 00:29:57,279 --> 00:30:00,159 Well, I I've got a few. 675 00:30:00,159 --> 00:30:02,320 >> Well, what why don't we just go through 676 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,559 page by page 677 00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:06,960 >> and starting on page 16. 678 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,200 >> Can we start on 15? 679 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,440 >> 15. Okay. 680 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,559 >> 15. Um B. It's just a I think it's a 681 00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:17,200 typo. B is I think it says consistent 682 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,200 with section 11134. I think it's 11133 683 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,600 which is the exempt signs I think. 684 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,679 Yes, it could be it. We'll check back 685 00:30:27,679 --> 00:30:29,279 again because it's admin draft. Some of 686 00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:30,640 the sections would get moved around. So, 687 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,320 we've got to make sure that's correct. 688 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:37,039 >> That's all I had on on 15. Thank you. 689 00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:41,279 >> Okay. Page 16, exempt signs. 690 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:51,750 >> Um I I have some questions. Um, 691 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:57,360 so we we've got if we go to uh 11133 692 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,279 and we go down to two and temporary 693 00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:03,520 signage related to Ulfest and Danish 694 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,120 days or any other official city holiday. 695 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,960 Um, I assume that's 696 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,720 a legal term. Is it is something where 697 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,200 they say we declare that Fourth of July 698 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,520 is an official city holiday or event and 699 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,000 they do that every year. Do people come 700 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,159 up and say here's an official event. 701 00:31:22,159 --> 00:31:24,640 It's going to be I don't know car show 702 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,159 in the park. I mean it is it limited or 703 00:31:28,159 --> 00:31:30,480 is it up to city council to just come up 704 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,440 with these official city holidays? It 705 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,360 might be offensive that Ulifest is 706 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,960 listed in Danish days, but other um 707 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,360 other holidays are not for and and so 708 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,279 I'm just curious, do we put anything in 709 00:31:43,279 --> 00:31:45,519 there or do we just say any official 710 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:47,600 holiday as declared by city and let it 711 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:48,240 go? 712 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,000 >> So we we specifically did Yulfest simply 713 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,279 because that's something that in Danish 714 00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:55,679 days is those two big sort of festivals, 715 00:31:55,679 --> 00:31:57,840 Fourth of July being the other one. Um 716 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,480 really the aim is to just have the 717 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,320 ability for parks and wreck who issues 718 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,559 out uh temporary event permits to allow 719 00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:06,480 for sort of those banner signs to be 720 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,880 there as a in conjunction with that. Um 721 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,200 we most certainly can clean it up. Um 722 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,240 but really the reality is we we want to 723 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,399 be make sure sort of cover our bases to 724 00:32:16,399 --> 00:32:18,559 say that the signed ordinance doesn't 725 00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:20,159 affect any of those city sponsored 726 00:32:20,159 --> 00:32:23,120 events and most certainly we can clean the language up. 727 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,039 >> Okay. it. You could certainly say any 728 00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:27,279 temporary signage related to any 729 00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:30,080 official city holiday event or events 730 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,679 such as Ulfest, Danish Days, etc. And 731 00:32:33,679 --> 00:32:36,960 then you'd cover official events. 732 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,279 >> And that's a that's actually a fantastic 733 00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:41,279 >> clarify. We do have a definition of 734 00:32:41,279 --> 00:32:43,360 holiday in the municipal code. It kind 735 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,279 of broadly refers to any federal or 736 00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:47,519 state holidays. Um, and then I believe 737 00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:50,080 the city could also uh establish a city 738 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,480 holiday by ordinance as well. Um, so 739 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:53,840 that that's where we're getting the 740 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,960 definition of holiday there. 741 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,880 >> But that's actually a very excellent 742 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,559 suggestion of of cleaning that up. And 743 00:33:00,559 --> 00:33:02,080 again, we really just don't want to 744 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,480 hamstring ourselves for especially, you 745 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,000 know, special events that that 746 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,880 applicants go through and and that's 747 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,240 been sort of that question of, well, 748 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,760 what can they do signwise? I'm like, 749 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,320 well, um, [laughter] 750 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,080 >> got to get it declared special event, I 751 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:16,399 guess, 752 00:33:16,399 --> 00:33:17,600 >> right? where 753 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:18,480 >> city holiday 754 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,880 >> whereas it if if the if the signage is 755 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,120 turned in with the special event they've 756 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,240 already cleared the barrier they're not 757 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,200 going to do anything and we don't need 758 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,120 to take a look at it so that we'd much 759 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,519 rather prefer that than the ladder 760 00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:31,840 >> can I ask on number three underneath 761 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,200 that um 762 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,840 it's talking about again these are 763 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,880 exempt and it's the non-eliminated signs 764 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,480 but not limited to credit card 765 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,399 acceptance I get that business hours 766 00:33:44,399 --> 00:33:47,919 open and closed I get it or menus use. 767 00:33:47,919 --> 00:33:52,480 I didn't see a menu um portion section 768 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,120 in here. 769 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:54,640 >> Yeah, because that's content based. We 770 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,000 don't want to do that anymore. 771 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,000 >> That's why it says display instead. 772 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,960 >> Should we be taking menus out of this? 773 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,480 >> Um it's it's we could in theory. Um 774 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,120 again, 775 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,880 >> it says it's an aggra of only two square 776 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,560 feet. That's aggra. That's all of it. 777 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,399 So, you're going to get a whole lot in 778 00:34:10,399 --> 00:34:12,000 two square feet. That's sort of the 779 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,560 point because it is there is the display 780 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,200 sign that allows for that sort of 781 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,679 additional larger display and that's 782 00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:22,720 already caked into the ordinance. So 783 00:34:22,720 --> 00:34:24,800 again the intention and we could remove 784 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,000 menu as an example which is fine by me 785 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,839 because again the real reality comes 786 00:34:29,839 --> 00:34:32,480 back to is we want to exempt out 787 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,240 aggregate of two square feet your hours 788 00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:36,639 of operations your your credit card 789 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:38,800 acceptance do you accept Bitcoin be my 790 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,960 guest I don't care 791 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:41,679 our current 792 00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:44,320 >> menu been such a a hot button you know 793 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,399 how many do you have what do you do it I 794 00:34:46,399 --> 00:34:48,240 my suggestion would just take menus out 795 00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:50,240 because it's more subjective again my 796 00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:51,599 menu is different than yours than the 797 00:34:51,599 --> 00:34:52,879 credit card in the open and close 798 00:34:52,879 --> 00:34:54,639 >> would be happy to take it out. So, 799 00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:57,910 >> okay. 800 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,160 Um, 801 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,079 number four, the special event. Now, 802 00:35:02,079 --> 00:35:04,000 we're into decorations, not signs, but 803 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,680 we're talking about decorations here, 804 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,560 obviously, non-commercial messages. 805 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,000 They can go up 30 days before an event 806 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,839 and and must be down 72 hours after an 807 00:35:15,839 --> 00:35:19,040 event. Um 808 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,839 this is just confusing but a bit ULFest 809 00:35:21,839 --> 00:35:23,200 is that the whole month. So if they 810 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,040 declared that that's the 1st of December 811 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,920 through the whatever it is um does that 812 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,320 mean that they need to when they declare 813 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:31,680 those events they need to have a start 814 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,240 and a finish date knowing that we want 815 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,000 it after the Christmas tree burn? We 816 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,480 don't want it on the 27th of December if 817 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,960 that's what we're looking for. 30 days 818 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,320 prior to an event seems a lot. Going 819 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,400 back to Ula Fest as an example, that 820 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,320 means November one you could start 821 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,079 putting up Christmas tree decorations 822 00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:56,160 and stuff. Um I I get it when it's maybe 823 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,160 a Danish days, a one-day event. Even 824 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,400 that is a long way out to go 30 days 825 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,079 prior to a fiesta or a Danish days. I I 826 00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:07,359 so that that's a long period of time and 827 00:36:07,359 --> 00:36:09,200 kind of a short time to take it down 828 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,520 afterward. in some of the others. I 829 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,320 think we've got like a a seven day after 830 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,800 an event on some things and I don't know 831 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,200 that that's just my thought and I always 832 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,240 use look for the extremes that we would 833 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:24,320 start getting Christmas decorations up 834 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,680 today if if you starts on December 3rd 835 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,440 at the parade which I think that's kind 836 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,520 of what they declare it to be. It's not 837 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,400 the not just the holiday. 838 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,000 So I think we ought to just look at that 839 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,400 think it through. So we we can um the 840 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,560 reality is this is really it's a 841 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,119 twofold. One is trying to cover Yilifest 842 00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:45,119 Halloween and other you know Fourth of 843 00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:47,760 July etc. But also we we've had requests 844 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,680 in the past for businesses that 845 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,040 celebrate you know one year 846 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:52,480 anniversaries and can they put up 847 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,520 balloons etc. So most certainly we can 848 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,520 quantify it with the time difference. So 849 00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,359 if you're doing a one day one to three 850 00:36:59,359 --> 00:37:02,480 day event 72 hours makes sense. Um and 851 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,040 then for longer events we can extend out 852 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,480 the time to uh remove the decorations. 853 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:08,880 >> Yeah. 854 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,280 >> So be happy to include sort of that time 855 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:11,760 frame. 856 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,320 >> Tighten that up just just a bit was was 857 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:14,960 my thought. 858 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,200 >> I like that approach too. 859 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,520 >> Yeah. But there's also the question of 860 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,280 when you can start putting up the 861 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,160 decorations. I understand 862 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,359 some flexibility on the back end. But 863 00:37:27,359 --> 00:37:30,240 you know can they according to this they 864 00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:32,640 can start 30 days before the 865 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:33,839 >> sale 866 00:37:33,839 --> 00:37:35,599 >> the special event. 867 00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:36,000 >> Yeah. 868 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:36,800 >> Right. And 869 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,280 >> and then they have to take it down 72 870 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,040 hours afterwards. 871 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,839 >> Correct. And and so part of it is maybe 872 00:37:43,839 --> 00:37:46,160 there's the event of a sale and event of 873 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,880 something like a popup whatever they're 874 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,200 doing in in the park or at Demirus 875 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,960 Square or somewhere. And the other is 876 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,920 these official city holiday festivals 877 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,359 that you know two classifications. 878 00:37:59,359 --> 00:38:00,640 >> Yeah, it sounds like we may just need to 879 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,440 cut a se two separate exceptions and 880 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,280 that's again not a problem. That's the 881 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,520 intention of sort of this study session 882 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,079 is to to get that and I know we try to 883 00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:11,920 combine it as much as we can into one. 884 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,920 But yeah, it's fine. If it makes 885 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,079 application much easier, I'm all for 886 00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:17,280 that. 887 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,839 >> Um on down lower 1113-4 888 00:38:21,839 --> 00:38:23,200 But before you get there, I have a 889 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,320 question on five. 890 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:25,520 >> Sorry. 891 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,119 >> Uh this is uh a fixed to vehicles. It 892 00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:32,000 says magnets, vinyl application, 893 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,560 other forms of material 894 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,000 uh of permanent adhesive. I question the 895 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,680 word permanent. Magnets aren't 896 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,079 permanent. Vinyl applications can be 897 00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:45,760 peeled off. Uh what was the intent there 898 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,240 with permanent adhesive? the the the 899 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:51,680 intent is to show that the that the sign 900 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,839 is is sort of a fixed in some way, shape 901 00:38:53,839 --> 00:38:55,359 or form that doesn't appear to be 902 00:38:55,359 --> 00:38:57,680 temporary, which is why such signage 903 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,359 such as banner, boards, paper, wood, 904 00:38:59,359 --> 00:39:00,880 material, any other sort of temporary 905 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,720 sign um is not included. And and here 906 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:07,599 it's not. We don't have many vehicles 907 00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:09,119 that do that. In other jurisdictions, 908 00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:10,800 we've had vehicles where they parked the 909 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,040 car and they put the sign in the window 910 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,359 pointing out, you know, and it's a 911 00:39:15,359 --> 00:39:17,520 cardboard sign. So again, just trying to 912 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,200 differentiate between someone that has a 913 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,040 has gone through the process of of 914 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,520 either vinyl or putting window 915 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,680 lettering, etc. that is really, you 916 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,200 know, trying to make it not into a a 917 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,920 moving billboard per se, but you know, 918 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,920 directing traffic to a particular area. 919 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,960 It's just trying, you know, we're just 920 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,880 trying to differentiate a a permanent 921 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,720 versus something that's temporary and 922 00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:44,160 attention getting. 923 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,599 >> Would the as any examples would the 924 00:39:47,599 --> 00:39:50,320 signs on the trolley be exempt under 925 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:50,720 this? 926 00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:52,000 >> Those are already exempt. They're 927 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,920 different sections. So, yeah. 928 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,720 >> Okay. And what about the signs on the 929 00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:59,359 roofs of the Domino's Pizza delivery 930 00:39:59,359 --> 00:40:00,640 guys? 931 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,440 >> Again, that's that's typically fine. 932 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,720 We're trying to walk that fine line to, 933 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:09,040 you know, differentiate between the two. 934 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,599 >> Okay. Well, and and I brought that one 935 00:40:11,599 --> 00:40:13,599 up in particular because it says that 936 00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:17,040 the sign can't project above 937 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,359 or from the vehicle profile. 938 00:40:21,359 --> 00:40:24,000 So, by that definition, dominoes 939 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,599 shouldn't be able to do that. 940 00:40:25,599 --> 00:40:27,599 >> Yeah, we again, we can take a look at 941 00:40:27,599 --> 00:40:30,078 that and try to make that work. or 942 00:40:30,078 --> 00:40:32,240 [clears throat] just walking a fine line 943 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:36,000 and we'll try to sniff that out. 944 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:36,320 >> Okay. 945 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:37,920 >> Such as exceptions being made for 946 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,359 delivery vehicles or something, 947 00:40:39,359 --> 00:40:41,359 commercial de delivery vehicles. 948 00:40:41,359 --> 00:40:44,800 >> Yeah, that's one way of doing it. So, 949 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,440 >> um and under four, again, I'm just 950 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,920 trying to emphasize the the 30-day and 951 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,480 the 72 hours, 952 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,839 you can do it three times a year. That's 953 00:40:55,839 --> 00:40:58,400 times 30 days. That's I'm beating a dead 954 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,079 horse. That's 90 days. That's a quarter 955 00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:02,079 of the year. You could have stuff up. 956 00:41:02,079 --> 00:41:04,079 So, let's just if we can 957 00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:04,880 >> squeeze it down. Thank you. 958 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,720 >> We We will We will squeeze that down. 959 00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:08,960 >> Thank you. Thank you. 960 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:14,160 >> Okay. You had um on 1113-4 961 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,720 number one offsite signage. Um, I 962 00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:22,800 really, if we, if we turn to page 36 for 963 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,119 definition of off site signage, now I'm 964 00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:29,200 not saying the other one was any better. 965 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,280 It's probably the same. It's right in 966 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,000 the middle of page 36. Offsite signage 967 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,839 that is not located on the same legal 968 00:41:35,839 --> 00:41:37,599 lot of the business. 969 00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:40,640 >> Okay, that that's where it's saying. 970 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,560 So that means that if you're in a square 971 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,200 and you're on the you can put signs 972 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,160 remotely throughout the square if you 973 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,079 got permission obviously from yourself 974 00:41:50,079 --> 00:41:52,960 or from the landlord. And I was always 975 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,560 of the belief even talking to tenants of 976 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,720 mine that you cannot put an off-site 977 00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:02,240 sign down there. the signs need to be on 978 00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:05,599 your frontage, your lineage, your It 979 00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:07,040 doesn't matter that it's all on one 980 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,440 legal lot or you can have people putting 981 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:14,079 signs around um off of their off of 982 00:42:14,079 --> 00:42:15,680 their 983 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,400 businesses. So, I don't know if the if 984 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,240 there's a better definition or if you 985 00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:22,480 guys chatted about that, but offsite 986 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,640 didn't to me mean off the property that 987 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,680 you have your one of 17 businesses on 988 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,760 and you can do it anywhere on there. It 989 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,800 had to be in front of your business or 990 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,560 over your door. 991 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,640 >> I seem to recall from our previous 992 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,640 discussion and I think you brought it up 993 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,880 Erin about it being proximate to the 994 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,280 business and you even talked about some 995 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,359 distances I think but primarily it was 996 00:42:45,359 --> 00:42:46,400 with I think Arames. 997 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,200 >> A frames and that's in here as 5t from 998 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,200 your primary door which is great. Yeah. 999 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:52,960 >> But I always thought Jack you've been 1000 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,880 around it enough too that the signs had 1001 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,720 to be on your exterior. walls of your 1002 00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:00,160 property, not your neighbors because 1003 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:01,599 they don't care, 1004 00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:03,680 >> but you're on one legal lot. So, 1005 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:07,440 >> so you might be able to cover this on 1006 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,760 and we haven't gotten there yet under a 1007 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,920 sign program for uh a square where you 1008 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,960 have a number of businesses. One area 1009 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,920 that the developer or the owner could 1010 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,079 come up with a signed program for 1011 00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:26,880 uh that business 1012 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:28,560 location 1013 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,880 and get the program approved through the 1014 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:32,960 city. And then it would be a 1015 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,680 collaboration between the owner or the 1016 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,040 landlord, 1017 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:38,800 >> the city, and 1018 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,800 >> but we still need to define off-site 1019 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,480 signage because the landlord's going to 1020 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:43,920 come in and say, "Well, it doesn't it 1021 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,440 says off-site signage could be anywhere 1022 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,280 on my piece of property. I've got 15 1023 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,000 tenants, and so I'm coming in with this 1024 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,200 signage all around off my off of the 1025 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,480 rental spots. There are some very small 1026 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,760 um shops in town, retail shops, very 1027 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,720 small, 300 feet, 400 square feet, 200 1028 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:04,800 square feet, and they don't maybe have 1029 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,240 enough walls, so they want to put them 1030 00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:08,319 down and across. And I don't think 1031 00:44:08,319 --> 00:44:11,200 that's maybe what what I want to see 1032 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,119 happen. I'd rather have I'd rather have 1033 00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:15,280 site signage defined a little bit 1034 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:15,839 better. 1035 00:44:15,839 --> 00:44:20,720 >> Well, 1134 says that it's not allowed. 1036 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:21,119 >> Uh 1037 00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:25,599 >> it's under prohibited signs. Uh 1038 00:44:25,599 --> 00:44:27,520 >> yeah, off-site signage, but the 1039 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,920 definition of offsite is the legal lot 1040 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,520 that you have your rental on. 1041 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,480 >> Yeah, it sounds like we can 1042 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,560 >> adjust it to both off-site and off- 1043 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:37,920 premise. So that's 1044 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,599 >> perfect. I think it used to say off 1045 00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:41,200 premise. You're absolutely correct 1046 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,720 instead of offsite before. 1047 00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:44,640 >> We can we can make that adjustment. 1048 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,920 >> Um under number four on this the digital 1049 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,400 display LED. I get it all. I understand 1050 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,560 it. 1051 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:54,720 Can we should we say that you can't have 1052 00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:57,760 those inside or outside or seen from the 1053 00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,760 street because you can get a lot of neon 1054 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,680 and stuff inside and can we even 1055 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,520 regulate that if it's back 15 [laughter] 1056 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,040 18 in from the window? Maybe we cannot. 1057 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,960 >> That's a tough one. I mean there's a 1058 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,160 couple businesses where you can see the 1059 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,240 LEDs through the window. They see the 1060 00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:14,160 signage in there and um 1061 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,079 >> and we never we never say I know we do 1062 00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:19,440 this thing of 18 inches be after the 1063 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,599 window. You can do signage and you're 1064 00:45:21,599 --> 00:45:23,760 not But the neon that you can still 1065 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,040 seems like it should be maybe a little 1066 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,480 tighter. But um my thought 1067 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,440 >> well and that this that starts to really 1068 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,079 blur that line of where do we sort of 1069 00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:37,520 draw the line 1070 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:42,160 >> of of what we can and cannot see. So, 1071 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,800 you know, in this instance, I'm, you 1072 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,599 know, some businesses, it's just easier 1073 00:45:47,599 --> 00:45:49,200 for them to do the digital display, 1074 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:50,560 especially on the menu boards if 1075 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,960 they're, you know, coffee shops, etc. 1076 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:54,640 >> Hadn't even thought about that. That's 1077 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:55,839 the hot thing right now. 1078 00:45:55,839 --> 00:45:58,319 >> Yeah, it's just easier. So, I, you know, 1079 00:45:58,319 --> 00:46:00,319 I'd rather keep to just regulating what 1080 00:46:00,319 --> 00:46:02,079 we can see from the right away. 1081 00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:04,960 >> Um, one thing that we can add in is the 1082 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,119 amount of lumens. So, that's that's 1083 00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:08,880 definitely one way to regulate it. And 1084 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,839 again trying to be in a very succinct 1085 00:46:11,839 --> 00:46:14,000 objective manner that if we can see the 1086 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,520 lumens at night or you know that that's 1087 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,760 going to be the easiest way to do it. So 1088 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,760 >> okay 1089 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,599 >> it's all I have on 16 1090 00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:27,839 >> 17 1091 00:46:27,839 --> 00:46:31,359 um perhaps number seven at the very top 1092 00:46:31,359 --> 00:46:34,560 because these are prohibited signs. It 1093 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,040 starts number seven outdoor decorations 1094 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,520 maybe comma except as a as allowed under 1095 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,119 1113-3 1096 00:46:43,119 --> 00:46:46,079 which we just went over which is 11 the 1097 00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:48,240 exempt signs which is for the festivals 1098 00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,720 and boppity bop just because wait a 1099 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:52,160 minute you can't do out there I can't I 1100 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,160 thought we could do it here just you 1101 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:59,670 know more info sometimes better 1102 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:07,119 um this poll sign number 20 on that page 17. And if we go to a definition of 1103 00:47:07,119 --> 00:47:11,359 poll signs on page 37, 1104 00:47:11,359 --> 00:47:15,200 we um we give a definition of a poll 1105 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,240 sign, but we are saying the poll signs 1106 00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:22,000 are prohibited. So I I don't know. I I'm 1107 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,760 just I'm just wondering. 1108 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,520 >> I want we want the definition there so 1109 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:26,880 we can make sure it's prohibited. 1110 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,960 >> Okay. Okay. That's and and that's fine 1111 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,760 because we always allowed pole signs in 1112 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,280 our current. You can have a pole sign. 1113 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:34,880 If you have 100 feet, you can go up in 1114 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,680 the air with one. We're now saying two, 1115 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,040 which makes it nicer. 1116 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,960 Okay. 1117 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,640 >> Yeah. I want to be able to say nah, no 1118 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,680 pull. So you here's the definition. 1119 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,440 You've met the definition, so no pull. 1120 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:49,760 >> Y. 1121 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:54,309 >> So 1122 00:47:54,319 --> 00:47:56,000 » I don't have anything. 1123 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:56,880 >> Well, I have a question. 1124 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:57,839 >> Go ahead. I'm sorry. 1125 00:47:57,839 --> 00:48:00,560 >> On sign programs, 1126 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,280 uh, I couldn't find a definition of a 1127 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,400 what a sign program is. 1128 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,400 >> We may have inadvertently left out the 1129 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:09,680 definition. We'll we'll add the 1130 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:10,800 definition in. [clears throat] 1131 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:16,000 >> Yeah. And uh what would be the and I 1132 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,800 alluded to this earlier. What would be 1133 00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,920 the process 1134 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:27,839 uh for uh individual signs on businesses 1135 00:48:27,839 --> 00:48:30,880 uh that are included under the sign 1136 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,000 program. 1137 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,559 >> So typically a sign program includes a 1138 00:48:34,559 --> 00:48:36,079 list of conditions that run with the lay 1139 00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:37,520 of the land. So it's very similar to 1140 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,839 conditional use permit. So once those 1141 00:48:39,839 --> 00:48:43,040 get codified um and then they are passed 1142 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,040 by resolution, we keep the resolution. 1143 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:46,720 We actually do have a few sewing 1144 00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:48,480 programs here in town that are already 1145 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,440 active um and some of them it's hit and 1146 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:52,880 miss because they're not consistent. 1147 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,559 Some of them say it can be approved at 1148 00:48:54,559 --> 00:48:57,280 staff level, some say they can't. And so 1149 00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,119 um but the reality comes back to is the 1150 00:48:59,119 --> 00:49:01,440 whole point of the sign program is it is 1151 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,599 that there's a program that's laid out 1152 00:49:03,599 --> 00:49:05,040 it's particularly when you have these 1153 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,359 smaller shops and the you know trying to 1154 00:49:07,359 --> 00:49:09,520 direct people to where they need to be 1155 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,160 or larger shopping centers and the 1156 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,000 program just basically dictates how the 1157 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,359 signs are supposed to look where they're 1158 00:49:15,359 --> 00:49:17,119 supposed to be located and if you meet 1159 00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:19,680 that criteria city staff should be able 1160 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,720 to um process a a permit over the 1161 00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:23,920 counter. And so that that's the 1162 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,079 intention of the sign program is as 1163 00:49:26,079 --> 00:49:29,119 tenants come and go um they have a sign 1164 00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:30,880 program that's approved a new tenant 1165 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,160 comes in it's like I want to do a new 1166 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:33,839 sign. Okay well this has a sign program 1167 00:49:33,839 --> 00:49:36,400 please see attached and have your sign 1168 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:37,520 do everything towards the sign program 1169 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,839 and we approve it call it a day. Okay. 1170 00:49:39,839 --> 00:49:42,640 Well, that was uh second going to be the 1171 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,680 second part of my question that uh in 1172 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,280 exactly ceremon the situation you uh 1173 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,119 suggested 1174 00:49:51,119 --> 00:49:55,280 uh uh new business comes in. 1175 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,920 Uh would and and you know everything is 1176 00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:03,680 according to what was in the the sign 1177 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,040 program that was approved for that. 1178 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,359 Would that person actually have to come 1179 00:50:09,359 --> 00:50:12,160 to the city again or can the landlord or 1180 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,640 owner approve it or do both have to 1181 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:15,359 approve it? 1182 00:50:15,359 --> 00:50:16,800 >> Yeah, again we I mean landlords 1183 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,480 typically don't really say much unless 1184 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,800 there's a new placement. Um it's again 1185 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,359 it's a signed permit. It just would as a 1186 00:50:23,359 --> 00:50:24,400 condition of the sign permit would 1187 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:25,680 simply say if it meets the intent of the 1188 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,359 sign program, you know, city staff is 1189 00:50:27,359 --> 00:50:28,640 able to approve the permit through an 1190 00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,960 administrative sign permit. Done. So 1191 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:31,280 again, 1192 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:32,960 >> it does say sign face, 1193 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:33,280 >> right? 1194 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:34,800 >> You can you can do that. 1195 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,160 >> Yeah. And that that's the point of the 1196 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,319 conditions is is is to have that. Now 1197 00:50:38,319 --> 00:50:40,880 again a sign program is is different. 1198 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,040 You want to each that means each site is 1199 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,240 different. So it's just let's pretend 1200 00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:48,000 that the Neielson Center one day goes 1201 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,599 through a massive fateless and they they 1202 00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:52,240 want a a sign program with a large pylon 1203 00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:57,359 sign. Well maybe you want to see what it looks like each time a new 1204 00:50:57,359 --> 00:50:58,960 tenant comes in. So we can condition 1205 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:00,880 that the pylon sign specifically when a 1206 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,559 new tenant comes in it goes to the DRC. 1207 00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:05,040 You write the condition as such. So that 1208 00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:06,800 that's that's the beauty of the sign 1209 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,960 program is it is much more sight 1210 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,200 specific and and the controls of how we 1211 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:12,400 want to see it. 1212 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,720 >> Yeah. Well, the having the definition 1213 00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:19,599 would help a lot there. 1214 00:51:19,599 --> 00:51:20,960 Uh 1215 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,280 >> I have nothing else on 17. 1216 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,520 >> Neither do I. I have nothing on 18. 1217 00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,319 >> 18. Um 1218 00:51:30,319 --> 00:51:32,800 I just a couple 1219 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:39,190 uh silly stuff I I suppose. Um 1220 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:44,079 re uh let's go to sign permit to a 1221 00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:47,599 wherever we see review authority. 1222 00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:49,520 um 1223 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,839 sign we had to say signage review 1224 00:51:51,839 --> 00:51:53,680 authority because you do say it in some 1225 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,040 places and capitalize it because I know 1226 00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,520 what you mean. Um it's so if we just you 1227 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,440 know this it's it's in your box your 1228 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,599 table signage review authority and just 1229 00:52:03,599 --> 00:52:06,079 capitalize them. It's a couple places it 1230 00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:10,400 is and couple it is not. Same with B. 1231 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,280 Number one, administrative sign permit 1232 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,440 capitalized way at the bottom last 1233 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,200 paragraph. 1234 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:18,960 Administrative sign permit is not 1235 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,520 capitalized. I'm just saying just you'll 1236 00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:23,599 probably catch that consistent. 1237 00:52:23,599 --> 00:52:28,000 >> Yeah, but yeah. Yeah, that's that's um 1238 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:28,960 >> Yeah, 1239 00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:33,119 >> appreciate it. Um and then number three 1240 00:52:33,119 --> 00:52:35,440 at the top of that page sign program I 1241 00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,839 put big question define this and you 1242 00:52:37,839 --> 00:52:39,599 you've got that and you got that and so 1243 00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:42,079 we'll get a definition as to how you get 1244 00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:44,880 a a uh because it's required and so 1245 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,160 therefore we had a yeah so that was it 1246 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:48,960 there. 1247 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,800 >> I have one other question that I skipped 1248 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,640 over on the sign program. 1249 00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,920 uh who is responsible for the 1250 00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:03,040 maintenance of the the signs? 1251 00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,960 >> So, it's typically always the landlord 1252 00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,200 or tenant. So, again, we're we're not 1253 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:08,559 responsible for that. We just do the 1254 00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:10,079 approval. 1255 00:53:10,079 --> 00:53:13,040 >> But would uh be the would it be the 1256 00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:17,119 landlord's responsibility to notify a 1257 00:53:17,119 --> 00:53:19,839 tenant that, hey, your your sign needs 1258 00:53:19,839 --> 00:53:22,800 to be repainted or freshened up or 1259 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,680 whatever needs to happen. the latch 1260 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:27,680 broke, you need to fix it. 1261 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,000 >> So, is that something? 1262 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,599 Some landlords don't do that. The city 1263 00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:34,400 will come give you a notice and say this 1264 00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:35,920 is in disrepair and then the landlord 1265 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:37,599 will go to the tenant and say get it 1266 00:53:37,599 --> 00:53:39,680 repaired or vice versa and they'll get 1267 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,640 it repaired. But these these ticks go 1268 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:44,400 against the business owner as we know. 1269 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,640 I've argued for years and I always lose 1270 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,040 to the city attorney that we should be 1271 00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:50,640 finding people and then it should go 1272 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,240 against the property owner so that 1273 00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:53,920 there's an enforcement mechanism instead 1274 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:55,520 of a business just closing up and going 1275 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,359 way back to Santa Barbara and leaving 1276 00:53:57,359 --> 00:54:00,240 $1,000 worth of fines and um not we're 1277 00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:04,319 trying to collect money. It's just we're trying to enforce. So it's kind of 1278 00:54:04,319 --> 00:54:06,640 up to correct me if I'm wrong landlord 1279 00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,880 and tenant working it out. it is and I 1280 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:10,880 mean if it comes to disrepair then then 1281 00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,200 you we we can find the tenant and that's 1282 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:14,720 what we typically have done is we we 1283 00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:18,079 find the tenant um now we have informed 1284 00:54:18,079 --> 00:54:19,920 the landlord and some tenants aren't 1285 00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:24,480 happy about that but you know that's just our way of particularly when 1286 00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,000 we're setting a second and third notice 1287 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:27,440 that's when we start slapping on the 1288 00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,000 landlord. Um, but we've really tried to 1289 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,000 make it at at best practices. Once we 1290 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,400 send one notice out to a tenant, we 1291 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:38,400 actually also CC the property owner that way there's no sort of 1292 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:39,760 miscommunication. Well, this is the 1293 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:40,720 first time we've heard of it. Well, 1294 00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:43,040 we've CCD you like six, four copies, so 1295 00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:44,319 I don't know [laughter] 1296 00:54:44,319 --> 00:54:46,079 where your mail has been gone. So, 1297 00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:50,480 >> so what happens and the business gets a 1298 00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:52,720 notice from the city 1299 00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:54,559 and 1300 00:54:54,559 --> 00:54:56,400 you know they you don't know it but 1301 00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,480 they've already decided to close the 1302 00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,640 business and 1303 00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,920 the next day they're gone and their old 1304 00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,200 sign is hanging there. Is it then become 1305 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,359 does it become the responsibility of the 1306 00:55:09,359 --> 00:55:11,920 landlord to do that? Yeah, it ultimately 1307 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:13,839 eventually does fall into the the 1308 00:55:13,839 --> 00:55:15,359 landlord, which is why we have a signed 1309 00:55:15,359 --> 00:55:17,680 maintenance section. So, basically sort 1310 00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:19,680 of outlines, you know, what that upkeep 1311 00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,440 is. And then, you know, in that same 1312 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,119 subsection that there's a notice to 1313 00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:26,960 repair, you know, the director or my 1314 00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:27,920 designate, you know, 1315 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,720 >> I was just thinking in particular with 1316 00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:33,760 the sign program, 1317 00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:37,040 uh, who's who's responsible for what? 1318 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:38,640 >> Again, each reading this, it wasn't 1319 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:40,400 clear to me. Each sign program you got 1320 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,319 to treat it as its own entitlement. So 1321 00:55:42,319 --> 00:55:44,319 it's not all sign programs are created 1322 00:55:44,319 --> 00:55:47,359 equal. So again those are exceptions 1323 00:55:47,359 --> 00:55:49,359 that will carry conditions and those are 1324 00:55:49,359 --> 00:55:51,359 discussions that happen at each and 1325 00:55:51,359 --> 00:55:53,440 every individual sign program and not 1326 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:54,960 every not every property will have a 1327 00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,760 sign program and that's typically 1328 00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:59,839 um it's meant for larger properties but 1329 00:55:59,839 --> 00:56:01,760 is also meant to assist some of our 1330 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,119 smaller properties that have multiple 1331 00:56:03,119 --> 00:56:04,160 tenants. 1332 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,319 >> Yeah. Well, I understand you don't have 1333 00:56:06,319 --> 00:56:09,200 to have a sign program, but if you do, 1334 00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:13,359 the the city should have some framework 1335 00:56:13,359 --> 00:56:15,680 uh size, you know, some objective 1336 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,640 standards that go into that signed 1337 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:20,960 standard or that uh 1338 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,079 >> program program. 1339 00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:24,559 >> Yeah. And even even if the doesn't if it 1340 00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:26,640 stays silent, it it kicks back to our 1341 00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:28,799 code, which our code has, you know, the 1342 00:56:28,799 --> 00:56:30,640 basic maintenance requirements that need 1343 00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,079 to get done. So, 1344 00:56:34,079 --> 00:56:35,760 Raphael, also that I believe you have 1345 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:37,680 the findings for the sign program and 1346 00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:39,280 the ordinance as well. So those would 1347 00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,599 need to be met um for the sign programs. 1348 00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:45,119 >> Yes, that's correct. 1349 00:56:45,119 --> 00:56:46,799 >> So section E has the findings that would 1350 00:56:46,799 --> 00:56:47,839 need to be made to approve those 1351 00:56:47,839 --> 00:56:49,680 anyways. So 1352 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,829 >> okay, 1353 00:56:53,839 --> 00:56:55,200 page 20 or 1354 00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,680 >> I just have a 1355 00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,599 six in the bottom paragraph. It just 1356 00:56:59,599 --> 00:57:01,839 says established by the director. I 1357 00:57:01,839 --> 00:57:03,280 think that's community development 1358 00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,400 director. No big deal. But catch that. 1359 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:13,109 >> Just uh uh uh one comment on the 1360 00:57:13,119 --> 00:57:16,559 uh example up at the top of where it 1361 00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:18,960 says solving shop. 1362 00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:22,079 You've got XY plus XY. But down here 1363 00:57:22,079 --> 00:57:23,599 when you're talking about tutoring, 1364 00:57:23,599 --> 00:57:26,000 you're using ABCD. 1365 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:30,240 I think you should use ABCD in the you 1366 00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,799 know 1367 00:57:32,799 --> 00:57:37,119 uh in both instances again just for 1368 00:57:37,119 --> 00:57:44,309 consistency. 1369 00:57:44,319 --> 00:57:47,040 Okay, page 21. 1370 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:48,720 Um 1371 00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,960 my here's my question on number seven at 1372 00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,000 the top is measurement of the building 1373 00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,040 facade. um 1374 00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,280 from building frontage and then we slip 1375 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,599 we we go over to the facade. I think we 1376 00:58:01,599 --> 00:58:03,040 had to just keep it building frontage 1377 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:08,710 but nevertheless um 1378 00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,200 facing to the street. My question here 1379 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,000 is corners. Is it then streets? 1380 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,000 >> Yeah, it actually is. So yeah, 1381 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,480 >> so maybe parallel to the street and put 1382 00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,559 s in parenthesis so people realize that 1383 00:58:20,559 --> 00:58:22,640 it's both. I I figured it was but 1384 00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:24,240 >> yeah. Oh, very much. That's the great 1385 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:25,760 thing about having a corner lot is you 1386 00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:32,069 get more signage from your pitch. So 1387 00:58:32,079 --> 00:58:34,880 » okay. 1388 00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,910 >> Um 1389 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:42,400 one under that design and construction e 1390 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,880 this is this freestanding signs and you 1391 00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,160 know this is a new new uh word that's in 1392 00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,079 our code as far as I know. I remember 1393 00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:52,079 polls I remember monument but not 1394 00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:54,240 freestanding. So, it's good that we have 1395 00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,839 it there. Um, 1396 00:58:57,839 --> 00:59:01,680 I'm I'm I'm not um I guess I'm not 1397 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:03,520 understanding. The freestanding signs 1398 00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,359 utilizing bases should be a minimum one 1399 00:59:05,359 --> 00:59:07,839 foot in height off the ground and three 1400 00:59:07,839 --> 00:59:12,960 high bases shall be this this. 1401 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:18,000 But then if we if I go to page 22 and 1402 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,160 23, 22 at the bottom is where 1403 00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,440 freestanding signs start as a header 1404 00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,799 number three. And it starts going up 1405 00:59:26,799 --> 00:59:30,079 saying under freestanding signs. They 1406 00:59:30,079 --> 00:59:32,480 have a maximum height of six feet and 1407 00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:36,480 they can be 32 square feet. And I'm 1408 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,559 maybe I'm getting them confused. No, 1409 00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:39,839 that freestanding and this free 1410 00:59:39,839 --> 00:59:41,200 standing. You've caught an error and it 1411 00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,040 should that should read monument sign 1412 00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:43,760 that section 1413 00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,240 >> ex or Yes, that's exactly what I wrote. 1414 00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,079 Isn't that the monument over there? Yes. 1415 00:59:48,079 --> 00:59:49,920 >> Okay. We have those smaller freestanding 1416 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:50,319 I 1417 00:59:50,319 --> 00:59:54,400 >> correct. So that should so that is 1418 00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:56,480 so that should flip to monument sign 1419 00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:57,760 standards instead. Yep. 1420 00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:58,799 >> Versus freestand. 1421 00:59:58,799 --> 00:59:59,920 >> Yep. Under three. 1422 00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:00,240 >> Yep. 1423 01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:03,040 >> Yes. 1424 01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:07,839 >> And that's what I had on 20. Um I have a 1425 01:00:07,839 --> 01:00:11,119 question about illumination. 1426 01:00:11,119 --> 01:00:13,200 Um 1427 01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:18,960 on uh C it says uh for uh externally 1428 01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,079 illuminated signs it says low lumen 1429 01:00:22,079 --> 01:00:26,160 output but internally we specify a 1430 01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:30,559 maximum. Should we specify a maximum for 1431 01:00:30,559 --> 01:00:33,359 the uh externally illuminated signs as 1432 01:00:33,359 --> 01:00:36,640 well? Yeah, we we we could um again the 1433 01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:37,920 external illuminate those are a little 1434 01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:41,440 bit since we're trying to not have the 1435 01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:43,119 internal illuminated ones we most 1436 01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:45,200 certainly can um and I can take a look 1437 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:46,480 and do a little bit of research on 1438 01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,400 what's the best practice on on that 1439 01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:56,400 >> uh look at uh uh color temperature 1440 01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,589 uh 1441 01:00:59,599 --> 01:01:01,492 » I think at what point do you want to 1442 01:01:01,492 --> 01:01:03,839 [laughter] regulate this thing to 1443 01:01:03,839 --> 01:01:05,760 I mean, I I agree. Some some 1444 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:06,480 temperatures are 1445 01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,280 >> soft white lights or do you want uh 1446 01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:10,960 >> there's there's candle, there's soft 1447 01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:15,920 white, there's there's a lot. I think at some point 1448 01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,640 >> and some are are very bright even though 1449 01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:20,640 the lumens are the same, they appear 1450 01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:21,520 much brighter. 1451 01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:22,799 >> The the blue hue 1452 01:01:22,799 --> 01:01:24,880 >> Yeah. when you get up to the the 5,000 1453 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:25,200 Kelvin. 1454 01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:29,200 >> I I wish we would handle that with our building lighting, too, because 1455 01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,440 some people have gone with these very 1456 01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,760 bright. I'm sure they meet the lumens. 1457 01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:35,359 Um, right. I don't know how that's ever 1458 01:01:35,359 --> 01:01:36,160 been handled. 1459 01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:37,839 >> Yeah, we can we could probably extend it 1460 01:01:37,839 --> 01:01:39,359 with foot candles would probably be the 1461 01:01:39,359 --> 01:01:41,839 best uh go about for that. So, again, 1462 01:01:41,839 --> 01:01:43,520 it's more of like the foot candles is 1463 01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,040 just how how far away you can see it 1464 01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,920 versus lumens. Um, so most certainly we 1465 01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,280 can add in the foot candle. Um, and then 1466 01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:53,680 again, the color, I get it. Some colors 1467 01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,040 look, you know, better than others. Um, 1468 01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:58,880 >> it's a discussion. I just don't 1469 01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:02,319 >> in the same area. Can you have color 1470 01:02:02,319 --> 01:02:06,799 changing lights as in the park? 1471 01:02:06,799 --> 01:02:09,760 >> Well, the that's city facility city 1472 01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:11,520 stuff. That's exempt. So, we're not I 1473 01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:11,760 mean, 1474 01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,480 >> no, but I mean, could somebody do that 1475 01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,920 for an externally lit sign and have 1476 01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,680 color changing uh uh illuminating? 1477 01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,440 >> In theory, yes. So, we could probably 1478 01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:27,040 want to set that to one solid color only 1479 01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,960 and let the business No flashing. 1480 01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:32,720 >> No flashing, which flashing is already 1481 01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:34,319 in. So that's already prohibited. So if 1482 01:02:34,319 --> 01:02:36,480 it's flashing and that's already 1483 01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:40,079 prohibited, so um but limiting to one 1484 01:02:40,079 --> 01:02:43,359 solid color is probably the best bet. 1485 01:02:43,359 --> 01:02:45,440 >> Yeah. Yeah. They do have a definition of 1486 01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,839 foot candle, but yeah, you're right to 1487 01:02:47,839 --> 01:02:49,359 that. 1488 01:02:49,359 --> 01:02:51,680 >> The last thing on that, again, hate to 1489 01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:53,839 beat it up. C1E, 1490 01:02:53,839 --> 01:02:56,160 freestanding signs again at the top 1491 01:02:56,160 --> 01:03:00,000 there. So C1E on 21 1492 01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,400 I wrote here. What are these? I I don't 1493 01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,400 know what these freestanding signs are 1494 01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,400 that have to be a foot off the ground 1495 01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:07,440 but can't go more than 1496 01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,520 >> free. It's a monument sign. So again, 1497 01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,160 it's that's it needs. So originally the 1498 01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,559 freestanding was just in one category. 1499 01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:17,839 Um and then upon sort of reflection, we 1500 01:03:17,839 --> 01:03:19,839 had this thing called a kiosk sign, 1501 01:03:19,839 --> 01:03:20,160 right? 1502 01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,559 >> But it was it's 1503 01:03:22,559 --> 01:03:24,319 a kiosk cuz it move there was a whole 1504 01:03:24,319 --> 01:03:25,520 bunch of things. So instead it's like 1505 01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:27,520 okay when we break out and say monument 1506 01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:28,960 and a freestanding because really that's 1507 01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:30,880 what it is is and that we have a 1508 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,839 freestanding you know menu signs that 1509 01:03:33,839 --> 01:03:35,119 >> but they got to be they can't be more 1510 01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:37,039 than 3 ft. Monuments can be six and a 1511 01:03:37,039 --> 01:03:37,280 half 1512 01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,680 >> right. So this so this design and 1513 01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:40,880 construction is more so referring to 1514 01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:42,720 monument signs because again you want 1515 01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:46,160 that base to at least be 1 ft up to give 1516 01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:48,720 the sign height and then you want to max 1517 01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:50,559 out that base on a monument sign to 1518 01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:52,640 three. just about the bases here. 1519 01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:54,079 Correct. These standing signs using 1520 01:03:54,079 --> 01:03:56,480 bases. The bases should have a minimum 1521 01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:57,280 of one foot. 1522 01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:57,599 >> Correct. 1523 01:03:57,599 --> 01:04:00,400 >> Maybe just put comma. The bases should I 1524 01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,119 read it four times and and went what? I 1525 01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:05,200 thought it had to be a max of six. Yeah. 1526 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:05,520 Okay. 1527 01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:06,960 >> We'll add an illustration. We'll add an 1528 01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,359 illustration this. I think that'll help out. 1529 01:04:09,359 --> 01:04:11,200 >> And it says they have to be decorative 1530 01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:13,280 and located in a planter. Correct. 1531 01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,470 >> Yeah. 1532 01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,400 » If they're located in the planter, you 1533 01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,480 can't see them, right? Oh, that's the 1534 01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,000 point of the base is the base is to 1535 01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,160 elevate the sign up post. The post or 1536 01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:27,039 the base, it elevates the sign up. So, 1537 01:04:27,039 --> 01:04:28,319 >> u but again, you still have a maximum 1538 01:04:28,319 --> 01:04:30,400 that you had adhere to, but what what 1539 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,240 you don't want to see is the sign droop 1540 01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:34,240 all the way down to the bottom beyond 1541 01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:35,520 the base and no one can read it because 1542 01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:36,640 again, the intention of the monument 1543 01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:38,400 sign isn't for a pedestrian, it's for 1544 01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:43,430 the motorist. 1545 01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,720 » I'm on 23 if if we pass 22. I don't know 1546 01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:47,280 if we have 1547 01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,839 >> I I just have a a question on 1548 01:04:49,839 --> 01:04:52,079 freestanding signs in residential 1549 01:04:52,079 --> 01:04:57,039 districts and it talks about uh 1550 01:04:57,039 --> 01:05:00,079 one per property or residential unit 1551 01:05:00,079 --> 01:05:02,000 with multiple units are located in 1552 01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:06,400 common. So uh a house with an ADU 1553 01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:09,039 couldn't have two. It could still only 1554 01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:10,000 have one. 1555 01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:11,839 >> This is our way of calling it a real 1556 01:05:11,839 --> 01:05:14,319 estate sign without calling it a real 1557 01:05:14,319 --> 01:05:15,635 estate sign. 1558 01:05:15,635 --> 01:05:18,309 >> [laughter] 1559 01:05:18,319 --> 01:05:20,079 » because it it's actually all meant to be 1560 01:05:20,079 --> 01:05:23,119 a real estate sign. So, um you got to 1561 01:05:23,119 --> 01:05:25,200 kind of read between the lines a little 1562 01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:28,000 bit. Um because time of display is 1563 01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:29,520 actually what keys it into what it 1564 01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:30,240 actually is. 1565 01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:31,599 >> Seven days of sale, 1566 01:05:31,599 --> 01:05:33,520 >> right? Exactly. So, seven days of sale 1567 01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:35,839 are rented. And so, the reality is this 1568 01:05:35,839 --> 01:05:38,480 is just a a a for rent sign or a for 1569 01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,119 sale sign, but we just can't call it 1570 01:05:41,119 --> 01:05:43,760 that due to contentbased messaging. 1571 01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,319 >> Okay. But in in residential districts, 1572 01:05:46,319 --> 01:05:49,920 you can put up a a sign 1573 01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:54,400 as long as it meets the the size. And uh 1574 01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:57,839 so given that, I was wondering what 1575 01:05:57,839 --> 01:06:02,160 happens in mixed use where you have a 1576 01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:03,839 business on the ground floor and 1577 01:06:03,839 --> 01:06:06,880 residential on the top. 1578 01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,920 >> It depends on again the the sign of what 1579 01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:11,680 we're talking about. So, if you're 1580 01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:13,359 talking like the non-commercial message 1581 01:06:13,359 --> 01:06:13,920 sign, 1582 01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:14,400 >> Yeah. 1583 01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:17,680 >> then if it's got on the the residentials 1584 01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:18,880 on the second and third floor and they 1585 01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:21,359 have a window and as long as it's two 1586 01:06:21,359 --> 01:06:23,039 square feet, knock your two and a half 1587 01:06:23,039 --> 01:06:24,559 square feet, knock your socks off, put 1588 01:06:24,559 --> 01:06:26,319 it on the window. I can't I'm not going 1589 01:06:26,319 --> 01:06:28,880 to control the message even if it's the 1590 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:30,480 most absurd message known to man. 1591 01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:33,280 >> Right. 1592 01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,720 And our ordinance does say businesses or 1593 01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:39,119 entities on the first floor, put your 1594 01:06:39,119 --> 01:06:40,559 signs on first floor, second floor, put 1595 01:06:40,559 --> 01:06:41,680 them on the second floor. So the 1596 01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:43,760 residents by definition is second floor. 1597 01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:45,760 Therefore, that's where it would end up 1598 01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:46,480 being. 1599 01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:50,150 >> Okay. 1600 01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,119 Uh on page 23, 1601 01:06:53,119 --> 01:06:58,240 just a a knit uh um at the very bottom 1602 01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,079 BC, 1603 01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:03,039 it says maximum 3 and 1/2 ft. It 1604 01:07:03,039 --> 01:07:06,319 probably should be a a maximum of three 1605 01:07:06,319 --> 01:07:09,680 and a half feet. 1606 01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,559 Just a knit. 1607 01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:15,680 Um I've got something on F on page 23 1608 01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:19,119 way up at the top. AB CDF 1609 01:07:19,119 --> 01:07:22,559 again this is I I I wrote this twice 1610 01:07:22,559 --> 01:07:24,720 here where we talk about we talked about 1611 01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:26,240 earlier time of display shall be 1612 01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,559 temporarily only placed prior and I 1613 01:07:28,559 --> 01:07:31,280 circled prior we need a definition of 1614 01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,760 prior as we spoke earlier and it's the 1615 01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:36,559 same down on G straight down on number 1616 01:07:36,559 --> 01:07:39,280 four placed prior to an event shall 1617 01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:41,520 temporarily be placed again that the 1618 01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:45,280 prior is again two days one day what 1619 01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,520 whatever that is and it's funny the one 1620 01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:49,520 down below says within two days you take 1621 01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:52,400 it off under G and you go up to F it's 7 1622 01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,720 days after the event I know one's a 1623 01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,200 banner and one is not a banner one is a 1624 01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:00,079 freestanding sign but one is two days 1625 01:08:00,079 --> 01:08:02,559 after one's seven days after maybe 1626 01:08:02,559 --> 01:08:04,240 because banners are more offensive 1627 01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,160 they're bigger I don't really know but 1628 01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:08,559 prior for certain and it would be better 1629 01:08:08,559 --> 01:08:10,319 to me that they would all be consistent 1630 01:08:10,319 --> 01:08:12,400 within 3 days they got to be down or two 1631 01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:16,080 days and prior x amount for because we 1632 01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:17,839 had that earlier in this in 1633 01:08:17,839 --> 01:08:19,839 >> yeah earlier we talked about three days 1634 01:08:19,839 --> 01:08:22,640 they have to be done so you know 1635 01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:25,040 >> so again the freestanding sign on on the 1636 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,040 poll or the the freestanding sign all 1637 01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:29,759 other districts again is is saying it 1638 01:08:29,759 --> 01:08:31,359 without trying to say it's a real estate 1639 01:08:31,359 --> 01:08:33,759 sign more you know that's what it is 1640 01:08:33,759 --> 01:08:36,080 >> seven days um and then again and then 1641 01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:38,799 again F talks about example real estate 1642 01:08:38,799 --> 01:08:41,679 sign shall be uh removed within 7 days 1643 01:08:41,679 --> 01:08:43,279 after the property sold lease or rented 1644 01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:47,120 a sign uh you know a sign for an on-site 1645 01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:48,400 sales event shall be removed within 7 1646 01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:50,000 days after the event. So again trying to 1647 01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,400 give those examples the banner sign is 2 1648 01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:54,080 days and that again that's typically 1649 01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:55,600 because 1650 01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:58,337 again what is the event? The event is 1651 01:08:58,337 --> 01:08:58,880 [clears throat] 1652 01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:00,480 um 1653 01:09:00,480 --> 01:09:02,159 >> cowboy Christmas not in our town but 1654 01:09:02,159 --> 01:09:04,000 I'll I'll use it cuz they're coming up. 1655 01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:05,920 Uh so the event is cowboy Christmas that 1656 01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:07,839 is the time frame. Uh so that is the 1657 01:09:07,839 --> 01:09:10,159 prior to the event and then so it's up x 1658 01:09:10,159 --> 01:09:12,319 amount of days prior to said event and 1659 01:09:12,319 --> 01:09:14,319 then they just we can give them more 1660 01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:16,719 time. We just don't want ultimately in 1661 01:09:16,719 --> 01:09:18,719 the end we want to shorten those banner 1662 01:09:18,719 --> 01:09:20,640 signs simply because those are 1663 01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:22,799 >> let's be honest the cheaper made cheaply 1664 01:09:22,799 --> 01:09:25,440 looking signs so we want to just shorten 1665 01:09:25,440 --> 01:09:28,719 that down. Is two days enough? 1666 01:09:28,719 --> 01:09:30,319 Probably not. Maybe extend it out. We 1667 01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:31,520 can extend it to seven just so we're 1668 01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:32,799 consistent. That'd be fine by me. 1669 01:09:32,799 --> 01:09:33,759 >> I'd rather not. But 1670 01:09:33,759 --> 01:09:35,520 >> I I'd rather not either. 1671 01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,279 >> I like the two. I I thought two days 1672 01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:38,400 after an election, you should have your 1673 01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:39,839 signs done and two days after the house 1674 01:09:39,839 --> 01:09:40,960 sells get your sign down, 1675 01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:41,440 >> right? 1676 01:09:41,440 --> 01:09:42,880 >> Yeah. I want to see it shorter than 1677 01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:44,880 longer, but that's just kind of prior 1678 01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,040 something prior as we discussed. I don't 1679 01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:48,799 know what that answer is. 1680 01:09:48,799 --> 01:09:51,759 >> All right. Um I can noodle on this one. 1681 01:09:51,759 --> 01:09:53,679 Maybe extend it out to maybe five days. 1682 01:09:53,679 --> 01:09:55,600 That that gives enough time because 1683 01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,520 usually these banner signs, Lisa, 1684 01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:58,880 they're they're down pretty quick, 1685 01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,280 aren't they? So would you say about 1686 01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:02,400 >> usually after 1687 01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:04,400 >> two day? Yeah. A day or two. Yeah. So 1688 01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,880 they're down. We just again the real 1689 01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:08,320 estate signs a little bit tougher simply 1690 01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:09,840 because you're you're putting them into 1691 01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:10,880 the ground 1692 01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:12,960 >> and then some guy's got to come and pick 1693 01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:15,520 it out or unless you were me and I took 1694 01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:16,960 mine out as soon as they clos the sale 1695 01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:18,400 because I didn't want the sign up 1696 01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:20,320 anymore. [laughter] 1697 01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:24,550 So 1698 01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,440 » that was all I had on 23. 1699 01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:31,199 >> And am I correct that A-frame is only 1700 01:10:31,199 --> 01:10:33,600 allowed in uh commercial zoning 1701 01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:34,880 districts? 1702 01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:35,679 Yes, 1703 01:10:35,679 --> 01:10:37,760 >> that's 1704 01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,159 >> yeah only only in in all commercial 1705 01:10:40,159 --> 01:10:41,679 zoning districts. And this was one we 1706 01:10:41,679 --> 01:10:42,320 had a 1707 01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:43,760 >> they're not allowed in residential 1708 01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:44,480 districts. 1709 01:10:44,480 --> 01:10:46,159 >> No. And it's [clears throat] 1710 01:10:46,159 --> 01:10:48,239 fairly rare that we'll see them in in 1711 01:10:48,239 --> 01:10:50,159 residential districts. Usually you you 1712 01:10:50,159 --> 01:10:52,719 may see them in associated with uh the 1713 01:10:52,719 --> 01:10:54,560 schools. That'd be the one sort of 1714 01:10:54,560 --> 01:11:00,169 caveat or a church. Um, which again we 1715 01:11:00,169 --> 01:11:01,440 [clears throat] 1716 01:11:01,440 --> 01:11:03,760 we can also make sure that the PI is 1717 01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:05,360 covered in there. Now that I'm really 1718 01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:07,679 thinking about it, so we'll we'll make 1719 01:11:07,679 --> 01:11:08,719 sure the public zones 1720 01:11:08,719 --> 01:11:12,239 >> I was thinking of uh at the the church 1721 01:11:12,239 --> 01:11:14,320 down here where they have their food 1722 01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:17,520 program. They usually have an a sign 1723 01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,320 A-frame sign set up out there, but it's 1724 01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:21,600 just for the day, 1725 01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:24,480 >> right? And the food program is is uh is 1726 01:11:24,480 --> 01:11:27,679 SNAP and other government sort of funded 1727 01:11:27,679 --> 01:11:30,480 which is now covered from exempt. So 1728 01:11:30,480 --> 01:11:31,920 again, we're just really trying to make 1729 01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:33,360 sure we cover our basis to make sure 1730 01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:35,440 that th those type of things are are 1731 01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:38,630 exempt. 1732 01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:41,750 » Okay. 1733 01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:44,320 I've got a couple things on 24 if we're 1734 01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:45,040 there. I don't know. 1735 01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:46,239 >> We're there. 1736 01:11:46,239 --> 01:11:48,719 >> Um 1737 01:11:48,719 --> 01:11:50,239 I know what we're trying to do here in 1738 01:11:50,239 --> 01:11:52,800 the A-frames. Um, I was against ever 1739 01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:54,480 allowing A-frames, but I lost that one 1740 01:11:54,480 --> 01:11:58,320 also, so I'm fine with that. Um, so I 1741 01:11:58,320 --> 01:11:59,520 know that what you're what we're trying 1742 01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:01,679 to do is saying the the when you look at 1743 01:12:01,679 --> 01:12:05,120 G really gets into the meat of it, um, 1744 01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:08,719 under under the G at the top, it's after 1745 01:12:08,719 --> 01:12:12,560 30 days, then the verbiage needs to 1746 01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:14,080 change 1747 01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:15,679 to something else. And then I guess 1748 01:12:15,679 --> 01:12:17,199 after 30 days, you can go back to the 1749 01:12:17,199 --> 01:12:20,000 verbiage you had before 30 days. and 1750 01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:21,920 every you could just keep doing two of 1751 01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,480 them throughout the year. I I think it's 1752 01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:26,480 going to be really tough to to enforce 1753 01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:28,159 that. I know what we're trying to do to 1754 01:12:28,159 --> 01:12:29,679 not just have it look like it's a 1755 01:12:29,679 --> 01:12:32,560 permanent one. And I like that we it c 1756 01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:35,280 it has to go in. I disagree with five 1757 01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:36,960 o'clock because right now the sun went 1758 01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:39,520 down at five and there are restaurants 1759 01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:41,679 open and it says the earlier five 1760 01:12:41,679 --> 01:12:44,560 o'clock or earlier sunset or the 1761 01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,199 business closing it ought to be the 1762 01:12:47,199 --> 01:12:50,640 later sunset or the I don't but 1763 01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:52,239 certainly when the business closed now 1764 01:12:52,239 --> 01:12:53,679 you can't illuminate them but there's 1765 01:12:53,679 --> 01:12:55,520 lots of lights out there on the 1766 01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:57,679 sidewalks that that people can still see 1767 01:12:57,679 --> 01:13:01,679 those happy hour signs or or soup signs 1768 01:13:01,679 --> 01:13:03,280 whatever it is. We'd be happy to 1769 01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:06,159 eliminate it just to make it easiness. I 1770 01:13:06,159 --> 01:13:07,040 mean, again, 1771 01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:08,239 >> I do. 1772 01:13:08,239 --> 01:13:10,480 >> Yeah. It's 1773 01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:12,000 >> we just don't want them out at night. 1774 01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:12,880 Yeah. 1775 01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,880 >> This is this is the first cut and I as 1776 01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,120 I've said to our council um and I'll say 1777 01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:18,320 it to y'all. 1778 01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:20,880 >> Um you know, we're not going to get it 1779 01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:24,239 right the first time. Well, we got to we got to let it start. 1780 01:13:24,239 --> 01:13:25,580 >> We got to let it cook and figure 1781 01:13:25,580 --> 01:13:27,840 [laughter] out the the spice content. 1782 01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:30,239 >> No. And uh if we don't get it right the 1783 01:13:30,239 --> 01:13:31,920 first time, then we may need to dial it 1784 01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:33,840 down or may need to dial it up, but we 1785 01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:35,679 got to got to give it one crack first. 1786 01:13:35,679 --> 01:13:38,480 So, um I understand I I think the 1787 01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:40,560 intention was that we didn't want 1788 01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:42,400 A-frame signs in the dark and then 1789 01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,120 someone hitting it and so but close a 1790 01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,040 business. I mean, obviously, you know, 1791 01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:50,239 sun went down pretty early today, um as 1792 01:13:50,239 --> 01:13:51,600 it's winter now 1793 01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,320 >> and so um yeah, close a business is just 1794 01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:55,360 as good. So, 1795 01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:57,280 >> okay. 1796 01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:04,880 Um, under banner signs, number two, um, 1797 01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:08,480 we go down to they're allowed, one per 1798 01:14:08,480 --> 01:14:11,679 business, [snorts] 20 square ft. It's 1799 01:14:11,679 --> 01:14:15,360 very large, 2 ft by 10 ft, very large. 1800 01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:18,320 Um, location on a structure, not to be 1801 01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:20,000 located above the first story or on a 1802 01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:22,640 roof. Um, shall not be placed on a 1803 01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:25,199 fence. It's the time of display. So, 1804 01:14:25,199 --> 01:14:28,640 it's a maximum of seven consecutive days 1805 01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:35,360 up to twice a year in the VMU district. 1806 01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:38,870 So, 1807 01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:40,480 and then if you look up the definition 1808 01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:42,960 of what a sign is, it's anything that 1809 01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:46,320 you want it to be. And so, I use a an 1810 01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:50,080 example of Denmark Square. And you've 1811 01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:51,600 got 1812 01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:53,840 I put a banner up that says now open. 1813 01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:55,679 Then I move it over to the next one. Now 1814 01:14:55,679 --> 01:14:58,080 open. I go this next one. Now open. We 1815 01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:00,800 just keep doing it around until we get 1816 01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:03,199 seven consecutive days till it loops me 1817 01:15:03,199 --> 01:15:06,640 twice and there's 15 shops. I just think 1818 01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:08,960 it's excessive. I I don't know how we 1819 01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,520 what what the better thing is, but I 1820 01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:15,920 just it just banners again. I I can't 1821 01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,320 believe that we're really allowing 1822 01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:20,880 banners on businesses. I know what 1823 01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,400 they're designed to do. Having a sale. 1824 01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,320 So the shoe store has a sale twice a 1825 01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:26,960 year and it's up for seven days. Outside 1826 01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:29,760 it's 14. Makes sense. 1827 01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:34,080 It can be abused where that sign because 1828 01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:35,760 it doesn't have to say sale. It can just 1829 01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,640 say open come visit. Then I just give it 1830 01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:40,880 to my neighbor and the neighbor and the 1831 01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:42,560 neighbor and we just have these banner 1832 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,360 signs up all the way around. I'd rather 1833 01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:47,360 have it say something like and maybe we 1834 01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:49,360 can't control content 1835 01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:50,719 >> sale. No. 1836 01:15:50,719 --> 01:15:52,080 >> Or special event. 1837 01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:52,480 >> No, 1838 01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:54,239 >> it just it just it can say anything 1839 01:15:54,239 --> 01:15:55,920 because you look in definition sign. It 1840 01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:57,840 can say anything we want to say. Now 1841 01:15:57,840 --> 01:15:59,760 open come visit the square. And we just 1842 01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,520 keep passing that thing 1843 01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:02,480 >> around and around. 1844 01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:05,040 >> That's content. And we don't we're we're 1845 01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:06,800 already So the problem is right now with 1846 01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,400 our banner signs is one, 1847 01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:12,800 it doesn't even limit. There is no time 1848 01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:14,560 duration. It allows it, believe it or 1849 01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:17,360 not. It's there but it's it's basically 1850 01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:19,920 it's some convoluted 1851 01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,880 10 days before opening 5 days after 1852 01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:24,719 opening 1853 01:16:24,719 --> 01:16:28,080 at less than four square ft and then can 1854 01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:32,719 be done if this is this special. It's completely convoluted whereas this 1855 01:16:32,719 --> 01:16:34,719 is much easier to enforce. Now 1856 01:16:34,719 --> 01:16:36,560 >> could we make it smaller than 20 square 1857 01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:37,120 ft? 1858 01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:40,719 >> We most certainly most certainly can um 1859 01:16:40,719 --> 01:16:41,920 >> with 10 you know 1860 01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:43,199 >> we can make it extremely 1861 01:16:43,199 --> 01:16:45,360 performance-based. So again by 1862 01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:48,640 performance space meaning if you're in 1863 01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:50,800 50 50 square 50 linear feet is pretty 1864 01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:52,400 much the cut off. So one we can change 1865 01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:53,840 it to where it says number of signs one 1866 01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,400 per business or property or one per 1867 01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:57,840 property. So then now you're really 1868 01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:00,800 beginning to limit like hey man sorry 1869 01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:02,000 you can't pass it out. It's one per 1870 01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:07,360 property. Um two is you we can go down 1871 01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:10,000 you know 20 square ft we can bring it 1872 01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:14,320 down to 16. Um 12 is the lowest you 1873 01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:16,960 should probably go for these things. Um 1874 01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:18,719 but again, we're really just trying to 1875 01:17:18,719 --> 01:17:21,600 strike this balance of we don't get many 1876 01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:23,679 banner signs. The most times we actually 1877 01:17:23,679 --> 01:17:25,360 get asked for banner signs. And correct 1878 01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:26,800 me if I'm wrong, Lisa. That's typically 1879 01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,280 when a business wants to open up 1880 01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:31,920 >> or close. Those are typically the only 1881 01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:33,840 times we have probably maybe I can count 1882 01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:35,040 on my hand the number of times someone 1883 01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:36,640 has asked for a banner sign for like a 1884 01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:37,760 special sale, 1885 01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:39,840 >> but it's mainly just revolving around 1886 01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,400 those two items. is now granted we have 1887 01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:44,880 had a certain business that's had 1888 01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:46,800 >> an extended amount of uh 1889 01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:47,520 >> band of signs 1890 01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:51,189 >> closing sale [laughter] 1891 01:17:51,199 --> 01:17:53,760 » hence again time place manner um which 1892 01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,080 we which adds us so 1893 01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:59,040 >> I'm if you you know 20 was a number that 1894 01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:01,199 originally it was down to 16 then we put 1895 01:18:01,199 --> 01:18:03,920 it to 20 I mean you know we can go 1896 01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:07,040 either or um you know 1897 01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:08,560 >> I just like them smaller I mean 1898 01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:11,600 >> yeah 16 16 is now you're at the 4x4, 1899 01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:12,000 >> right? 1900 01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:14,320 >> Um, and again, we can keep it at 20 and 1901 01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:16,400 say if it's between if you're over 50, 1902 01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:18,880 you can get 20. Uh, if you're under 50, 1903 01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:21,199 hey, you can you got to go down to to to 1904 01:18:21,199 --> 01:18:22,000 12 or 16. 1905 01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:22,880 >> There you go. 1906 01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:25,280 >> I like that. And I I like the idea of 1907 01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:27,440 per property also, unless you find some 1908 01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:29,280 pitfall with that. that would take care 1909 01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:29,760 of the 1910 01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:31,600 >> the only thing with per property is if 1911 01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:34,080 one person has a sale twice a year and 1912 01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:36,480 he's used up the entire properties, you 1913 01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:38,560 know, then you get into how come he got 1914 01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:41,280 it twice or she got it twice and so I I 1915 01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:43,840 get that. It's just to me it was an 1916 01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:49,760 awful lot and then they were so big and the thing about the size too, if we 1917 01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:52,320 think about our community, this isn't we 1918 01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:53,520 don't have a freeway running through 1919 01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:54,800 town where you've got to have something 1920 01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:57,040 that massive to catch it. things are 1921 01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:59,120 going kind of at a pedestrian pace here, 1922 01:18:59,120 --> 01:19:00,719 even if you're in a car. So, I don't 1923 01:19:00,719 --> 01:19:04,239 know that you need a great size to draw 1924 01:19:04,239 --> 01:19:06,239 that level of advertising. 1925 01:19:06,239 --> 01:19:08,000 >> We can tighten it up. Um, we could 1926 01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:09,120 definitely break it out a little bit 1927 01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,440 further um and take a look through our 1928 01:19:11,440 --> 01:19:13,280 GIS what our linear feed is and then 1929 01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:16,159 just do a quick query and then try to 1930 01:19:16,159 --> 01:19:18,880 come up with obviously anything under 25 1931 01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:21,440 you go down to 12. Again, we're really 1932 01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:22,880 just trying to make sure you expand the 1933 01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:26,239 space out. Um and then obviously 32 1934 01:19:26,239 --> 01:19:27,920 square feet it we're really looking at 1935 01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:29,440 Neielson's and right 1936 01:19:29,440 --> 01:19:33,040 >> and and uh the merkantiel and then out 1937 01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:34,560 you know 1938 01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:36,159 >> those are big 1939 01:19:36,159 --> 01:19:37,760 >> but I'll be happy to come up with 1940 01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:39,679 performance standards based on this you 1941 01:19:39,679 --> 01:19:43,040 know conversation and um amend as 1942 01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:47,430 needed. So 1943 01:19:47,440 --> 01:19:50,960 » my my last one on 24 is maybe I'm just 1944 01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:54,000 not following it. Um permanent signs at 1945 01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:56,000 the very bottom. 1946 01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,960 Um 1947 01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:02,400 permanent signs are going to be your your your blade signs are going to 1948 01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:03,760 be your wall signs. They're going to be 1949 01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:06,159 your ground sign. I so I'm not really 1950 01:20:06,159 --> 01:20:09,440 following that. The maximum 1951 01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:12,320 signage size allowed should be 20 square 1952 01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:14,400 feet. By the way, same as the banner 1953 01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:16,239 total 1954 01:20:16,239 --> 01:20:19,120 20 the maximum. It's not per sign square 1955 01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:23,920 feet or the one square foot per lineal. 1956 01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:26,320 Whichever is less, was it not whichever 1957 01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:27,280 is more? 1958 01:20:27,280 --> 01:20:29,199 >> Yeah. No, it wasn't that's the DRC did 1959 01:20:29,199 --> 01:20:30,800 want the less. And again, it comes back 1960 01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:33,760 to at that point now you're really 1961 01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:35,840 beginning to just pick and choose what 1962 01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:39,760 you want. Um, do you want a very large 1963 01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:42,400 >> ridiculous that that they I mean and 1964 01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:44,800 look they that's what they recommended. 1965 01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:45,360 That's fine. 1966 01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:46,640 >> It does and that's where the sign 1967 01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:48,960 program comes in and that's again it 1968 01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:51,760 it's it's basically it's a I call it the 1969 01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:55,120 choose your own adventure map. And so um 1970 01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:57,520 there's the easy way. You can do it this 1971 01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:59,840 way and call it a day or if you really 1972 01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:02,400 want to go out there at gusto and you're 1973 01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:05,440 very adamant then we'll give you a path 1974 01:21:05,440 --> 01:21:09,040 out. Um it just it's you'll have to ask 1975 01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:12,400 for the exceptions. Um 1976 01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:14,719 so again we're we're 1977 01:21:14,719 --> 01:21:18,000 >> yeah I I to me I 1978 01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:20,000 it should be on we use this linear 1979 01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:23,520 frontage so that there's a increase if 1980 01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:26,080 you're bigger and you're decreased if 1981 01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:28,640 you're smaller which makes perfectly 1982 01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:31,280 good sense. I know it's subjective that 1983 01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,199 a very small shop could would come in 1984 01:21:33,199 --> 01:21:35,920 and go, I want I want 20 square feet of 1985 01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:38,719 signage and I've only got X amount of of 1986 01:21:38,719 --> 01:21:41,040 L feet. I got my or I got my 20 ft so I 1987 01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:43,440 can have my 20 square feet so I match it 1988 01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:44,400 on both. 1989 01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:45,840 >> And then you've got someone like again 1990 01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:49,040 Copen House, Kahuna, um the big the big 1991 01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:51,600 guys in in town that 20 square feet. 1992 01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:53,280 None of these signs I I could walk you 1993 01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:54,400 up and down the street, none of them are 1994 01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:55,760 going to meet it. You're never going to 1995 01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:59,120 get those again. 20 is nothing. It's is 1996 01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:01,120 seven square feet. Eight square feet 1997 01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:03,280 signs. That's two and a half of them. 1998 01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:05,280 That's all that's all that a place can 1999 01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:08,239 ever have is two and a half signs. An 2000 01:22:08,239 --> 01:22:11,120 eight and an eight and a four. Done. 2001 01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:12,480 >> And again, that's where the sign program 2002 01:22:12,480 --> 01:22:14,719 allows in the asking for the exceptions. 2003 01:22:14,719 --> 01:22:15,280 And that's 2004 01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:17,199 >> I know, but man, now you got to appeal 2005 01:22:17,199 --> 01:22:20,639 and we know how those go and you appeal. 2006 01:22:20,639 --> 01:22:23,040 I I'm just I'm just surprised that DRC 2007 01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:23,920 went from 2008 01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:26,560 >> to know the exceptions would would go to 2009 01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:28,400 the DRC, right? They wouldn't be over 2010 01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:29,120 the counter, 2011 01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:30,960 >> right? Of course, they go to DRC 2012 01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:32,639 >> and then it goes to planning and then it 2013 01:22:32,639 --> 01:22:34,239 goes to city council and 2014 01:22:34,239 --> 01:22:37,679 >> so we so we can do is we can flag this 2015 01:22:37,679 --> 01:22:40,080 and then bring it to city council and 2016 01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:43,040 then um I mean I I see the argument for 2017 01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:45,760 it as well. Um usually as you have the 2018 01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:48,080 larger linear footage you go up. That's 2019 01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:48,639 what it's 2020 01:22:48,639 --> 01:22:52,000 >> which usually it's always been. Um you 2021 01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,880 have certain members in the DRC that 2022 01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:58,480 want to keep it small. Um 2023 01:22:58,480 --> 01:23:00,560 and I'm not doubting their judgment. I 2024 01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:02,800 just um I don't know if any of them have 2025 01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:05,280 businesses in town and realize that 20 2026 01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:08,639 square feet is not a lot for these large 2027 01:23:08,639 --> 01:23:11,120 Burkholmes bakery. 2028 01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:13,280 I mean an eight an eight and a four, you 2029 01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:16,960 know. Uh it's just it's they're 2030 01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:19,360 solving Bruco. I mean these are these 2031 01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:22,000 are big and these apply to hotels. I'm 2032 01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:24,159 assuming hotels aren't exempt. There's 2033 01:23:24,159 --> 01:23:25,840 not one hotel sign that's under 20 2034 01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:27,520 square feet in this town. So if they 2035 01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:32,320 ever change names, it's gone. They're they're they're not conforming 2036 01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:32,880 any longer. 2037 01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:35,600 >> Well, the structure I take the cork for 2038 01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:37,199 instance. The cork went out of business 2039 01:23:37,199 --> 01:23:39,920 and um the sign structure is there and 2040 01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:41,120 they're just changing the face of the 2041 01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:43,760 sign. This new ordinance says face 2042 01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:45,280 changes 2043 01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:46,080 off you go. 2044 01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:47,760 >> So a name change, business change is 2045 01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:48,560 okay. 2046 01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:51,120 >> You get a what it is. Well, you know, as 2047 01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:52,560 an individual, I'll go to city council 2048 01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:55,280 and say 20 is ridiculous. Win that or I 2049 01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:55,920 won't win that. 2050 01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:58,400 >> And and again, that's fine by us and 2051 01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:00,639 then we could go back a little bit and 2052 01:24:00,639 --> 01:24:02,320 start accepting things out where we say, 2053 01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:03,199 okay, well, if you're going to use a 2054 01:24:03,199 --> 01:24:04,960 blade sign, suspended sign, that's 2055 01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:07,120 exempted from it. If you're going to use 2056 01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:10,880 uh a if you're going to use awning sign, 2057 01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:13,440 that's also exempt. Okay. Well, now 2058 01:24:13,440 --> 01:24:17,520 what's left? So, [laughter] there's various ways to slice it. We we 2059 01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:19,040 can most certainly bring this to the 2060 01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:20,320 city council attention. 2061 01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:22,000 >> Well, and I know that there's an example 2062 01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:25,600 of the new shop that went in town, which 2063 01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:28,320 they have, you know, four or five signs, 2064 01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:29,760 maybe six signs because they went, "Oh, 2065 01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:31,760 I'll just do a bunch of small ones." And 2066 01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:33,199 this eliminates that because what are 2067 01:24:33,199 --> 01:24:34,719 you going to do 10 that are two square 2068 01:24:34,719 --> 01:24:36,719 feet? I mean, we we can do that. It's 2069 01:24:36,719 --> 01:24:38,080 going to be cluttered and it's going to 2070 01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:41,120 look ridiculous. And so, it's got to be 2071 01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:43,920 that that's another big shop in town. 2072 01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:46,080 And so, there's some really large shops 2073 01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:48,400 in town that that um the shoe store. I 2074 01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:50,400 mean, my gosh, 20 square feet, it's 2075 01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:54,480 really not a lot. But anyway, that's it 2076 01:24:54,480 --> 01:24:55,760 is what it is. That's just I'm just 2077 01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:56,880 voicing my 2078 01:24:56,880 --> 01:24:59,360 >> And the other the other way is is is 20 2079 01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:02,159 square feet, one square feet per line, a 2080 01:25:02,159 --> 01:25:04,159 maximum of 40. I mean there's there's a 2081 01:25:04,159 --> 01:25:05,840 ton of ways we can slice this. Correct. 2082 01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:06,320 So 2083 01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:06,639 >> correct. 2084 01:25:06,639 --> 01:25:07,199 >> All right. 2085 01:25:07,199 --> 01:25:09,040 >> Correct. So then it the bigger you are 2086 01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:12,960 you can go up to that and the smaller is that. 2087 01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:13,840 >> So we will we'll 2088 01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:15,360 >> it's just not one size fits all is my 2089 01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:15,840 point. 2090 01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:18,080 >> We'll do more analysis but [laughter] 2091 01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:22,400 your your point is taken on there. 2092 01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:25,360 >> Okay. Moving on. 25 and 2093 01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:28,639 >> can I ask 25 C obviously at the top. Is 2094 01:25:28,639 --> 01:25:31,600 that a multi-ten? Is that a directory? 2095 01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:33,520 Is that what that is? 2096 01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:35,440 >> No, it's just it's simply trying to 2097 01:25:35,440 --> 01:25:39,920 allow again this is one way of um trying 2098 01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:43,360 to solve a riddle for some of our 2099 01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:45,280 centers that we have in the downtown. 2100 01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:45,600 >> Okay. 2101 01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:49,520 >> Um allowing sort of this additional 2102 01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:52,639 signage through a sign program. And so 2103 01:25:52,639 --> 01:25:56,159 um you know we that's that's been a bone 2104 01:25:56,159 --> 01:25:57,600 of contention is well we're all the way 2105 01:25:57,600 --> 01:25:58,880 in the back. They can't see us. How do 2106 01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:01,120 we get people there? Well, 2107 01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:03,199 you you chose where you wanted to rent, 2108 01:26:03,199 --> 01:26:06,560 but um again, it's it's just trying to 2109 01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:10,400 figure out how we can do a multi-tenant, 2110 01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:13,600 you know, get some sort of sign program 2111 01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:16,159 that allows for direct just that 2112 01:26:16,159 --> 01:26:17,600 directory sign, but in a much more 2113 01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:18,719 tasteful manner. 2114 01:26:18,719 --> 01:26:22,960 >> No, that I I No, I get it. Um because 2115 01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:25,600 the next page has the directory sign. 2116 01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:27,600 The very next page has directory signed 2117 01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:30,800 with the definition. And I'm just 2118 01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:32,800 wondering, are we being redundant? Is 2119 01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:36,239 this multi-tenant signage? Seems like 2120 01:26:36,239 --> 01:26:39,760 that's a directory and we're allowing 2121 01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:42,320 one lineal square foot. 2122 01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:43,280 >> It's a little bit different 2123 01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:46,800 >> per storefront frontage. So again, if if 2124 01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:49,760 that's the case, if I've got 30 lineal 2125 01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:52,639 feet, I could have 30 square feet of 2126 01:26:52,639 --> 01:26:55,440 signage, but I can't because I can't do 2127 01:26:55,440 --> 01:26:57,440 it here. But here, if it's a 2128 01:26:57,440 --> 01:26:59,760 multi-tenant, I can. Or is it the 2129 01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:01,360 directory can be that big? 2130 01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:03,440 >> It's again, it's just more again, it's 2131 01:27:03,440 --> 01:27:05,120 entering into a sign program, which is 2132 01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:06,159 trying to add a little bit more 2133 01:27:06,159 --> 01:27:08,000 creativity. So you got you got to 2134 01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:09,520 remember that the sign program is your 2135 01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,120 ultimate sort of 2136 01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:13,840 >> passcode to unlock creativity. So you're 2137 01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:15,760 not locked in to the standards that are 2138 01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:16,639 sitting in there. 2139 01:27:16,639 --> 01:27:17,120 >> Okay. 2140 01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:19,520 >> And so while you can have a directory 2141 01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:21,440 sign you, yeah, you can have that all 2142 01:27:21,440 --> 01:27:24,000 day long. Um but then maybe you want to 2143 01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:25,840 do a painted wall sign with that has a 2144 01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:27,679 directory on it that's pretty large. And 2145 01:27:27,679 --> 01:27:29,280 so again, just trying to be more 2146 01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:33,199 creative with um the multi-tenants to 2147 01:27:33,199 --> 01:27:36,960 try to get them to unify under one sign 2148 01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:39,360 versus what's kind of being done right 2149 01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:42,000 now is and I don't want to name names, 2150 01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:43,840 but [laughter] 2151 01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:45,920 This might be a better way to sort of 2152 01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:48,480 help and alleviate that situation. 2153 01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:51,120 >> Got it. 2154 01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:53,520 That was it on 25. 2155 01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:56,239 >> Okay. I I have nothing on 26. 2156 01:27:56,239 --> 01:27:58,239 >> I have nothing on 26. I thought it was 2157 01:27:58,239 --> 01:27:59,440 redundant with directory and 2158 01:27:59,440 --> 01:28:01,840 multi-tenant. I couldn't understand it. 2159 01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:02,320 Sorry. 2160 01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:04,560 >> Nothing on 27 either. 2161 01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:08,000 >> Um 27 2162 01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:10,800 and I could be wrong and not reading it 2163 01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:14,000 correctly. It's monu monument sign. If 2164 01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:17,679 we go into the special requirements box, 2165 01:28:17,679 --> 01:28:21,840 um I I think that it would be clearer if 2166 01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:23,520 it would didn't say it said monument 2167 01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:25,120 sign. Instead of freestanding signage 2168 01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:28,800 under A and under D and under E, unless 2169 01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:31,360 I'm not understanding it. Uh, no. That's 2170 01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:34,000 that again was a l was a monument sign 2171 01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:36,960 that I I will take my air and my 2172 01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:39,520 lashings for not making sure those are 2173 01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:41,199 changed out that they should they should 2174 01:28:41,199 --> 01:28:45,760 read monument for all of them. So, 2175 01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:48,239 >> and then the the other thing is the the 2176 01:28:48,239 --> 01:28:51,040 sign the bottom box is that is called 2177 01:28:51,040 --> 01:28:52,960 out the display case. Can a can a menu 2178 01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:54,800 go in that? Is that what that is? 2179 01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:56,159 >> Yes, that's that's the intention of it. 2180 01:28:56,159 --> 01:28:58,239 Yeah. But again, we can't call it menu. 2181 01:28:58,239 --> 01:28:58,880 Yes, [laughter] 2182 01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:00,320 but you can. It's a display. Okay. 2183 01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:02,239 >> It's very much a display case. What it 2184 01:29:02,239 --> 01:29:04,000 displays, I don't know. 2185 01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:05,600 >> Usually a menu. [laughter] 2186 01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:08,159 >> Yes, 2187 01:29:08,159 --> 01:29:11,679 >> that is absolutely fine. And just a 2188 01:29:11,679 --> 01:29:13,520 clarification, if somebody wanted to put 2189 01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:16,320 a window that opens from the outside 2190 01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:18,000 that is a um what do you call it? A 2191 01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:20,000 boxed window, but you can't get to it 2192 01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:22,239 because it's got a a sheer panled wall 2193 01:29:22,239 --> 01:29:24,159 that you can't go in. You wouldn't call 2194 01:29:24,159 --> 01:29:26,239 it a sign. you go to the DRC and get 2195 01:29:26,239 --> 01:29:28,320 approval for a window that's exterior, 2196 01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:30,880 that's a display window that has a 2197 01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:33,520 locking key. I mean, I I don't Right. It 2198 01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:35,120 wouldn't be considered a sign. 2199 01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:36,639 >> Yeah, that's not considered a sign. And 2200 01:29:36,639 --> 01:29:38,000 it doesn't even go to DRC anymore. It 2201 01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:40,080 goes to us first. [laughter] So, Got 2202 01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:43,679 >> Yeah. I mean, it's Yeah. Again, 2203 01:29:43,679 --> 01:29:45,440 >> that's facads. Those are different. 2204 01:29:45,440 --> 01:29:47,679 We're we're talking pure signs here. 2205 01:29:47,679 --> 01:29:49,600 Like in this instance, a display case. 2206 01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:52,480 And I think we had one uh recently. for 2207 01:29:52,480 --> 01:29:54,639 forget which one that wanted this. 2208 01:29:54,639 --> 01:29:55,199 >> Park. 2209 01:29:55,199 --> 01:29:57,040 >> Parkplace. Yeah, Parkplace had a display 2210 01:29:57,040 --> 01:29:59,360 sign yet we didn't technically have the 2211 01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:01,847 regs for it. Don't ask. It's there now. 2212 01:30:01,847 --> 01:30:02,560 [laughter] So, 2213 01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:08,629 >> I get it. 2214 01:30:08,639 --> 01:30:10,480 » Okay. 2215 01:30:10,480 --> 01:30:12,880 >> 28. 2216 01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:16,159 I'm I'm curious as to under the box at 2217 01:30:16,159 --> 01:30:18,800 the top and the box at the bottom where 2218 01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:21,679 it says number of signs permitted. 2219 01:30:21,679 --> 01:30:24,480 You can only have one 2220 01:30:24,480 --> 01:30:26,320 of the window letterings. You can only 2221 01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:30,400 have one of these hanging suspended 2222 01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:32,960 sides. That's that's I'm reading that 2223 01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:33,440 correct. 2224 01:30:33,440 --> 01:30:35,280 >> You are correct. But so let's take 2225 01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:36,960 >> same with the wall sign on the Well, 2226 01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:38,560 that that gives you one on the next 2227 01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:40,560 page. It gives you one per public street 2228 01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:43,600 frontage, but this is just one and one. 2229 01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:46,000 >> So you can't have two of those. 2230 01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:49,120 >> And yeah, we want them mixed up, 2231 01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:51,199 >> right? So, we want them to one. And the 2232 01:30:51,199 --> 01:30:54,880 other uh issue here is um with the 2233 01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:58,239 window sign and and we want to make sure 2234 01:30:58,239 --> 01:30:59,600 you under special requirements that the 2235 01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:01,360 window sign a permanent window lettering 2236 01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:02,960 can extend to multiple windows. 2237 01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:04,639 >> Correct. Has to be one pane. It's only 2238 01:31:04,639 --> 01:31:06,639 25% or whatever the numbers are. Yeah. 2239 01:31:06,639 --> 01:31:07,280 Makes sense. 2240 01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:09,679 >> So, that is something I just now I'm 2241 01:31:09,679 --> 01:31:12,400 really thinking through because again, 2242 01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:14,639 if you're going to do it and you extend 2243 01:31:14,639 --> 01:31:16,960 it out, we should be able to extend it 2244 01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:18,080 out to Windows. So, we just want to 2245 01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:19,360 clarify that it could be on multiple 2246 01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:21,520 windows, but it'll be counted as one 2247 01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:22,639 sign. 2248 01:31:22,639 --> 01:31:25,120 >> Then the the only thing on on the bottom 2249 01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:28,239 of that page, which corresponds over to 2250 01:31:28,239 --> 01:31:30,880 um the wall signs, is something that 2251 01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:33,600 Brian Schneider brought up, 805 signs. 2252 01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:35,280 I've talked to him many times about 2253 01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:38,480 quarter inch or half inch thickness on 2254 01:31:38,480 --> 01:31:40,800 lettering. And his argument was the 2255 01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:43,520 shadowing. you get to a half inch and 2256 01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:45,520 the if you have a sign you have a light 2257 01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:47,679 over it it it kind of disappears a 2258 01:31:47,679 --> 01:31:50,560 quarter inch he believes is is good and 2259 01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:53,360 we over on on wall sign we do say 2260 01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:57,360 quarter inch under D but on this one we 2261 01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:03,440 say under B half inch um depth and one 2262 01:32:03,440 --> 01:32:06,000 is a bigger sign than the other one I 2263 01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:09,120 mean that'll either be consistent but 2264 01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:10,880 he's argued with me that quarter inch 2265 01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:13,440 looks better from a a lit sign with all 2266 01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:15,040 the shadowing that goes in even with the 2267 01:32:15,040 --> 01:32:16,800 sun down and things like that. But I 2268 01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:19,040 don't know why they picked quarter and a 2269 01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:21,280 half as differences signs 2270 01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:23,440 >> and in fact the wall signs much bigger. 2271 01:32:23,440 --> 01:32:24,960 >> Yeah, Brian did make this argument for 2272 01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:26,800 the projecting signs of letter depth and 2273 01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:28,239 that's in your blue folder. 2274 01:32:28,239 --> 01:32:30,480 >> Um type of sign should be top letter 2275 01:32:30,480 --> 01:32:32,800 depth of 1/2 should be one quarter to 2276 01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:34,719 match the wall sign specs plus carving 2277 01:32:34,719 --> 01:32:36,239 out. And we did have this discussion 2278 01:32:36,239 --> 01:32:39,120 with Brian um at DRC. he he was generous 2279 01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:44,800 enough uh to lend his um eyes to our 2280 01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:49,520 signed ordinance uh and reviewing it as someone who works in the industry. Um 2281 01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:53,440 so I I typically when it comes to that I defer to someone in the industry who 2282 01:32:53,440 --> 01:32:55,280 knows what they're doing and so more 2283 01:32:55,280 --> 01:32:56,560 than likely we'll we'll probably take 2284 01:32:56,560 --> 01:32:58,639 this into pretty good consideration as 2285 01:32:58,639 --> 01:33:00,239 part of the next iteration. 2286 01:33:00,239 --> 01:33:03,600 >> That's I figured it was a yeah slip up 2287 01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:09,430 or something. Who knows? 2288 01:33:09,440 --> 01:33:13,679 I have nothing else on that. Um 2289 01:33:13,679 --> 01:33:15,679 I'm a little worried about the mural on 2290 01:33:15,679 --> 01:33:18,560 page 30 as as we spoke earlier. 2291 01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:22,960 >> Yeah, we'll bet go back to 29 again 2292 01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:25,760 under definition of a mural. Shouldn't 2293 01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:28,239 that be in the definition section? I 2294 01:33:28,239 --> 01:33:31,520 know you have mural defined, but this 2295 01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:33,600 after reading this and what you have in 2296 01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:35,600 definitions, I think this is a much 2297 01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:38,639 better definition of a mural. 2298 01:33:38,639 --> 01:33:40,400 >> The mural should match. Yeah. So, that 2299 01:33:40,400 --> 01:33:42,800 one they'll they'll we'll re we'll make 2300 01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,600 sure the murals match definition wise 2301 01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:47,360 that uh 113. 2302 01:33:47,360 --> 01:33:50,960 >> Just take B out of here and put it into 2303 01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:52,080 the definitions. 2304 01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:57,590 >> Yeah. And that's just as good. So, 2305 01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:00,800 because I thought this was a good 2306 01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:02,000 definition. 2307 01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:05,040 >> Yeah. And again, this is uh a little bit 2308 01:34:05,040 --> 01:34:06,880 uh 2309 01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:10,239 PTSD from both Dave Fleshman and I. Uh 2310 01:34:10,239 --> 01:34:12,000 Dave's not here. I know Taylor's on the 2311 01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:16,560 line, but um you know, Dave had a a sign 2312 01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:20,239 uh mural go completely sideways as as 2313 01:34:20,239 --> 01:34:25,040 have I um in two municipalities um that 2314 01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:28,800 I formerly work at. So, a lot of it is 2315 01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:30,719 leading up to PTSD and really what it 2316 01:34:30,719 --> 01:34:33,920 comes down to is really trying to shield 2317 01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:37,520 those of you up here um and let us take 2318 01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:39,440 the hits and cover on that because again 2319 01:34:39,440 --> 01:34:41,840 it it's so subjective. So, we just want 2320 01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:44,480 to really just keep it to the box. Uh 2321 01:34:44,480 --> 01:34:46,320 but we'll bring this to city council's 2322 01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:49,669 attention. 2323 01:34:49,679 --> 01:34:53,110 » Okay. 2324 01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:54,639 » 30. 2325 01:34:54,639 --> 01:34:55,760 Nothing. 2326 01:34:55,760 --> 01:34:59,040 >> Uh I have a question under where it says 2327 01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:02,960 review authority D. It says with the 2328 01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:06,320 standards in subsection 2329 01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:10,080 which sub section 2330 01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:12,320 >> uh plug that hole to make sure it's a 2331 01:35:12,320 --> 01:35:16,000 standard of subsections um 2332 01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:18,080 with a standard in in this it should 2333 01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:21,600 read in this section. So, which would be 2334 01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:25,110 111310B. 2335 01:35:25,120 --> 01:35:31,110 Oh, yeah. 2336 01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:33,920 No, 11310B1 which is murals. So, that's 2337 01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:38,550 what it should be. 2338 01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:44,719 » And uh under uh the standards 2339 01:35:44,719 --> 01:35:49,360 uh does this apply anywhere in the city? 2340 01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:51,600 Yes. 2341 01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:54,480 >> Residential, commercial, industrial, 2342 01:35:54,480 --> 01:35:56,560 wherever somebody wants to put up a 2343 01:35:56,560 --> 01:35:59,199 mural. As long as they meet these 2344 01:35:59,199 --> 01:36:00,639 requirements, they can. 2345 01:36:00,639 --> 01:36:02,960 >> Yes. Because I I have seen where people 2346 01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:05,120 have turned their garage into a mural. 2347 01:36:05,120 --> 01:36:06,880 >> Yes, there's one right up the street. 2348 01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:09,199 >> There's one up the street. Looks good. 2349 01:36:09,199 --> 01:36:11,280 >> Yeah. I I happen to like it, but a lot 2350 01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:14,239 of people don't. 2351 01:36:14,239 --> 01:36:16,511 >> But uh that's PTSD. That's the whole 2352 01:36:16,511 --> 01:36:20,390 [laughter] point, right? 2353 01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:22,000 31. 2354 01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:23,360 >> Um, 2355 01:36:23,360 --> 01:36:26,960 >> I keep looking at Aaron. Bill, do you, know, speak up. I 2356 01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:29,520 >> Oh, I I will. I'm listening. You guys 2357 01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:31,679 have been very thorough and I truly 2358 01:36:31,679 --> 01:36:34,000 appreciate Aaron's business perspective 2359 01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:36,080 as he looks at this from both sides. You 2360 01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:38,480 have a large building and perhaps you're 2361 01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:41,679 being restricted or something could be a 2362 01:36:41,679 --> 01:36:43,520 nuisance because there are too many. So, 2363 01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:45,199 I'm I'm actually learning a lot and 2364 01:36:45,199 --> 01:36:46,480 listening. So, thank you both. It's 2365 01:36:46,480 --> 01:36:48,000 because we're been doing it forever, 2366 01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:48,639 right? 2367 01:36:48,639 --> 01:36:50,639 >> Yeah. 2368 01:36:50,639 --> 01:36:54,719 >> Um 31. We're back to the freestanding 2369 01:36:54,719 --> 01:36:56,159 sign. 2370 01:36:56,159 --> 01:36:58,159 >> Yes. The true freanding sign on to be 2371 01:36:58,159 --> 01:36:59,360 confused with the monument sign. 2372 01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:00,080 >> Yeah. 2373 01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:01,760 >> Maximum sign area. This is the four 2374 01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:03,760 square feet. I get it. The height is 2375 01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:07,280 five. Perfect. Um lower edge is three. 2376 01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:09,199 That's I mean it just works out. The 2377 01:37:09,199 --> 01:37:12,560 number is the question I have. None for 2378 01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:14,560 properties with less than 50 lineal 2379 01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:18,000 feet. Is it properties or is it 2380 01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:21,360 businesses or tenants? Sometimes we 2381 01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:24,719 interchange those um those words. 2382 01:37:24,719 --> 01:37:26,560 >> So, this is a new cut. The DRC's not 2383 01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:28,639 seen this. So, you are the first one to 2384 01:37:28,639 --> 01:37:32,719 see this. Um again, based on sort of the 2385 01:37:32,719 --> 01:37:34,800 review of the three meetings and really 2386 01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:36,719 trying to make see what's out there, 2387 01:37:36,719 --> 01:37:38,800 what we got. 2388 01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:40,960 This is a tough one because again, this 2389 01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:45,440 is my first cut at this is is really 2390 01:37:45,440 --> 01:37:48,560 I don't want to name names, but we have 2391 01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:50,480 certain properties 2392 01:37:50,480 --> 01:37:53,360 that uh certain business owners 2393 01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:55,440 want to have this type of signage and 2394 01:37:55,440 --> 01:37:58,639 they want them at uh the both public 2395 01:37:58,639 --> 01:38:01,840 entries that are available. So, if you 2396 01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:03,199 do it per business, you start 2397 01:38:03,199 --> 01:38:04,560 multiplying then 2398 01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:05,360 >> buy that 2399 01:38:05,360 --> 01:38:07,520 >> by that versus if you do it per 2400 01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:12,400 property, we're just saying, hey, we're going to cap you. And the reason 2401 01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:14,560 50 is chosen is we don't have many 2402 01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:17,119 properties with a 50ft linear frontage. 2403 01:38:17,119 --> 01:38:20,400 So what we're trying to avoid is if 2404 01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:24,000 you're a business, small business 2405 01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:25,520 and you don't have the 50 ft, you don't 2406 01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:27,280 get this because you you don't really 2407 01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:29,199 need it. Um we're really trying to 2408 01:38:29,199 --> 01:38:31,280 capture those businesses that are have a 2409 01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:34,480 deeper sort of lot depth or so hence why 2410 01:38:34,480 --> 01:38:37,360 that the 50 says you can't none. So 50 2411 01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:40,400 to 100 in looking at our GIS, we we have 2412 01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:42,800 quite a few there where these are 2413 01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:45,520 already at. And so we want to limit 2414 01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:48,320 those to to just say, "Hey, look, if 2415 01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:51,760 you're in the 50 to 100, you get one." 2416 01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:53,360 So landlord, you need to figure this 2417 01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:54,880 out. We're not going to figure it out 2418 01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:57,600 for you. You all need to figure this 2419 01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:00,480 out. And then at the greater than 100 2420 01:39:00,480 --> 01:39:01,760 linear feet, which we have a couple of 2421 01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:03,040 them, and again, these are these are 2422 01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:05,280 both. So, if you're corner corner lot 2423 01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:08,159 like the Copenhagen house, you you know, 2424 01:39:08,159 --> 01:39:09,520 you'll you'll have this. You'll be able 2425 01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:11,440 to do it no problem. Which kind of makes 2426 01:39:11,440 --> 01:39:13,760 sense. The larger the lot, the bigger 2427 01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:15,040 the more you're going to be able to get 2428 01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:17,280 this done. But the reality comes back to 2429 01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:19,119 we don't want a proliferation of these 2430 01:39:19,119 --> 01:39:22,000 on our smaller properties and business. 2431 01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:23,440 So, hence why one it says property 2432 01:39:23,440 --> 01:39:26,239 versus business and two was really 2433 01:39:26,239 --> 01:39:28,080 analyzing what we actually have out 2434 01:39:28,080 --> 01:39:30,719 there in terms of linear frontage. I'm 2435 01:39:30,719 --> 01:39:32,159 not married to this. This is my first 2436 01:39:32,159 --> 01:39:33,600 cut, but this is just trying to really 2437 01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:34,480 think this through. 2438 01:39:34,480 --> 01:39:37,119 >> It makes makes sense. You're um and it 2439 01:39:37,119 --> 01:39:39,280 wouldn't matter. So, use a business 2440 01:39:39,280 --> 01:39:42,080 anywhere they um you get one. You say 2441 01:39:42,080 --> 01:39:46,320 you've got 55 ft. It could be either for 2442 01:39:46,320 --> 01:39:48,800 the building or it could be for an 2443 01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:50,560 individual business. Again, it's up to 2444 01:39:50,560 --> 01:39:52,320 the landlord, the business guy. If it's 2445 01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:54,639 the same building and business, peasants 2446 01:39:54,639 --> 01:39:56,320 feast, well, then there's no arguments. 2447 01:39:56,320 --> 01:39:58,159 But if it's the other way, then there is 2448 01:39:58,159 --> 01:39:59,119 and you got to figure it out because 2449 01:39:59,119 --> 01:40:00,159 you're only getting one, 2450 01:40:00,159 --> 01:40:02,400 >> right? So, and that's that's the great 2451 01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:04,080 thing about it because in one particular 2452 01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:06,080 property that I'm thinking of, 2453 01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:08,159 >> they got two right next to each other, 2454 01:40:08,159 --> 01:40:09,360 >> right? And third one 2455 01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:11,440 >> and a third one on the other side. Okay. 2456 01:40:11,440 --> 01:40:14,239 Well, and two of them sit in planters 2457 01:40:14,239 --> 01:40:17,040 that are bolted to the ground and 2458 01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:19,280 >> god they look ugly. And so, [laughter] 2459 01:40:19,280 --> 01:40:20,800 it's just 2460 01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:23,440 >> why not solidify that? give them a 2461 01:40:23,440 --> 01:40:25,600 little bit larger space than what was 2462 01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:27,679 originally allowed, but say, "Hey, look, 2463 01:40:27,679 --> 01:40:29,600 if you can share and divide, be our 2464 01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:31,760 guest." But one, put it in a permanent 2465 01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:34,480 base. Two, put it at a height, max it 2466 01:40:34,480 --> 01:40:36,719 out. No additional signage, no 2467 01:40:36,719 --> 01:40:38,719 additional arrows, no nothing. 2468 01:40:38,719 --> 01:40:41,040 >> Um, again, 2469 01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:44,000 and then here 2470 01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:46,639 figuring out how does this play into the 2471 01:40:46,639 --> 01:40:50,400 extra 20 ft. Um, it may be exempted, it 2472 01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:52,239 may not. So, we we need to figure that 2473 01:40:52,239 --> 01:40:53,679 out as well. So, again, this is more of 2474 01:40:53,679 --> 01:40:56,560 a first cut. Um, and just trying to get 2475 01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:59,760 some sort of feedback on this one. 2476 01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:02,800 >> And if we go back to page 27, outdoor 2477 01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:04,880 display case sign. There's another 2 by 2478 01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:07,199 two. It's four square feet. I'm thinking 2479 01:41:07,199 --> 01:41:08,560 of a building that has three 2480 01:41:08,560 --> 01:41:10,400 restaurants. You could each have one of 2481 01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:13,679 those. It's the freestanding sign that 2482 01:41:13,679 --> 01:41:16,800 is limited by the lineage. 2483 01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:20,320 >> That is correct. And so and that's an opportunity here again with 2484 01:41:20,320 --> 01:41:21,840 our deeper properties that have 2485 01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:23,760 multi-tenants of three or four or five. 2486 01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:25,360 It's the opportunity to maybe they don't 2487 01:41:25,360 --> 01:41:27,040 do a menu sign in sign. Maybe they 2488 01:41:27,040 --> 01:41:28,880 instead do a directory saying these 2489 01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:30,639 three businesses are back here. 2490 01:41:30,639 --> 01:41:30,960 >> Yeah. 2491 01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:32,800 >> Cool. Fantastic. Great. That's one way 2492 01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:36,400 of solving that issue. Um but again this 2493 01:41:36,400 --> 01:41:41,600 is first cut. Be happy to to get some feedback on this but there is a 2494 01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:44,480 little bit of rhyme and reason to it. 2495 01:41:44,480 --> 01:41:47,040 >> Yeah. No, it it does make sense. I think 2496 01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:50,400 that this is just a observation. The 2497 01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:52,639 picture looks like it's a menu sign. And 2498 01:41:52,639 --> 01:41:54,080 so I'm reading I'm going, "Wait, is that 2499 01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:56,000 the menu sign?" So just make it blanked 2500 01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:57,040 out because it's like there's two 2501 01:41:57,040 --> 01:41:58,719 columns with prices, I think. I'm not 2502 01:41:58,719 --> 01:42:00,719 sure. No, [laughter] 2503 01:42:00,719 --> 01:42:02,400 >> because that's I thought that and then I 2504 01:42:02,400 --> 01:42:03,600 thought, "Oh my gosh, you're going to 2505 01:42:03,600 --> 01:42:06,159 have that that one square that has 2506 01:42:06,159 --> 01:42:07,280 them." And they're like, "Wait a minute. 2507 01:42:07,280 --> 01:42:09,040 We get all our menu signs per per 2508 01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:10,560 restaurant." Well, you do. Yeah. 2509 01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:13,920 >> Over on this other um display case. 2510 01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:15,679 >> Yeah. can blank it out and just put sign 2511 01:42:15,679 --> 01:42:17,119 right in the middle so people know to 2512 01:42:17,119 --> 01:42:21,270 sign. So 2513 01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:24,000 » that's all I had on 31. 2514 01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:25,600 >> Okay. 2515 01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:28,000 32. 2516 01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:30,159 >> Um 2517 01:42:30,159 --> 01:42:33,280 I I I missed it under the hanging signs. 2518 01:42:33,280 --> 01:42:35,360 Um but it caught me because I just w it 2519 01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:37,679 out and put hanging. We you guys changed 2520 01:42:37,679 --> 01:42:40,800 hanging I think to 8 ft. Yet still we 2521 01:42:40,800 --> 01:42:42,480 still have umbrellas and awnings at 2522 01:42:42,480 --> 01:42:43,760 seven. Yeah, 2523 01:42:43,760 --> 01:42:46,080 >> seven. And Brian mentioned that in his 2524 01:42:46,080 --> 01:42:48,080 also that it's sometimes hard with 2525 01:42:48,080 --> 01:42:50,000 eight, nine foot plates. You got to get 2526 01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:52,400 eight. You can't get a hanging sign and 2527 01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:53,920 is seven. I always thought seven was 2528 01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:55,600 kind of our standard, but you know, a 2529 01:42:55,600 --> 01:42:57,760 door is 68. So, I think that's what we 2530 01:42:57,760 --> 01:42:59,600 >> So, this one I just need to ping our 2531 01:42:59,600 --> 01:43:00,719 building official just to make sure 2532 01:43:00,719 --> 01:43:02,320 we're hitting minimum vertical 2533 01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:03,600 clearance. That's what it comes down to. 2534 01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:05,920 So, um I set it to eight because eight's 2535 01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:08,320 sort of that industry standard. Um, and 2536 01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:09,760 I noticed that we are already low and 2537 01:43:09,760 --> 01:43:11,119 I'm like, "Oh, they should really be 2538 01:43:11,119 --> 01:43:14,159 eight." Cuz again, in my walking 2539 01:43:14,159 --> 01:43:16,480 Copenhagen, I can extend my arm out and 2540 01:43:16,480 --> 01:43:17,920 grab one of those signs really easy. I 2541 01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:19,520 don't want to be able to do that. 2542 01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:21,360 >> Um, but again, 2543 01:43:21,360 --> 01:43:23,280 >> Brian does bring up a point. We do have 2544 01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:24,159 some 2545 01:43:24,159 --> 01:43:24,639 >> lowanging 2546 01:43:24,639 --> 01:43:26,800 >> lower hanging that are there. So, 2547 01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:28,560 >> um, and again, these are for new signs. 2548 01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:29,920 These are things we need to remember. 2549 01:43:29,920 --> 01:43:31,600 So, stuff that's there, you're 2550 01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:33,280 interchanging, it's existing, 2551 01:43:33,280 --> 01:43:35,360 non-conforming, and we leave it. We 2552 01:43:35,360 --> 01:43:37,119 leave it as is. It's it's what we're 2553 01:43:37,119 --> 01:43:39,040 looking for when you're doing a remodel 2554 01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:41,360 or new buildings. Now, now you got to 2555 01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:43,119 come into conformance. So, but still, 2556 01:43:43,119 --> 01:43:44,080 let me check in with the building 2557 01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:47,199 official on that one. 2558 01:43:47,199 --> 01:43:51,679 Can on 32 at the bottom I again you 2559 01:43:51,679 --> 01:43:54,719 explained um you have a non-conforming 2560 01:43:54,719 --> 01:43:58,159 sign and you so under non-conforming 2561 01:43:58,159 --> 01:44:00,560 sign AB 2562 01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:03,360 um two 2563 01:44:03,360 --> 01:44:06,239 this is non-conforming signs are allowed 2564 01:44:06,239 --> 01:44:09,199 if you change your face changes on a 2565 01:44:09,199 --> 01:44:13,590 non-conforming that's okay 2566 01:44:13,600 --> 01:44:15,840 but then under C number one it says 2567 01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:16,880 however 2568 01:44:16,880 --> 01:44:19,280 pro prohibited modifications. If you 2569 01:44:19,280 --> 01:44:21,280 change to another non-conforming sign, 2570 01:44:21,280 --> 01:44:22,800 it's prohibited. Well, you are changing 2571 01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:25,040 it from one non-conforming to another 2572 01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:26,800 one. By changing the face, it's still 2573 01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:28,560 non-conforming. 2574 01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:31,760 We need to be I don't know it maybe 2575 01:44:31,760 --> 01:44:33,280 change to another non-conforming sign, 2576 01:44:33,280 --> 01:44:35,920 comma, except for face changes as noted 2577 01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:38,639 above or except for the stuff noted one, 2578 01:44:38,639 --> 01:44:40,480 two, and three. Does that make sense? 2579 01:44:40,480 --> 01:44:42,159 >> Yeah, change another non-conforming sign 2580 01:44:42,159 --> 01:44:44,000 for the exception of section B. That's 2581 01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:45,600 really what it is because again we don't 2582 01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:47,360 want to change it. You don't want non 2583 01:44:47,360 --> 01:44:48,960 one non-conforming sign and then just 2584 01:44:48,960 --> 01:45:04,229 change to nothing. No. So we don't Yeah. 2585 01:45:04,239 --> 01:45:07,199 Then anything for 33 as we begin to 2586 01:45:07,199 --> 01:45:12,790 >> uh nothing on 33 2587 01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:18,310 for me anyway. 2588 01:45:18,320 --> 01:45:20,159 Um 2589 01:45:20,159 --> 01:45:22,560 can I 34 question? 2590 01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:23,600 >> Yeah, go ahead. 2591 01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:26,480 >> Way at the bottom directory sign. A sign 2592 01:45:26,480 --> 01:45:28,080 less than eight square feet that directs 2593 01:45:28,080 --> 01:45:30,880 pedestrians visitors to tenants. 2594 01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:32,080 >> That's 2595 01:45:32,080 --> 01:45:33,440 >> Yeah, we want that's the definition. 2596 01:45:33,440 --> 01:45:34,719 >> Yeah, we want to strike that. The eight 2597 01:45:34,719 --> 01:45:36,239 square feet just says a sign that 2598 01:45:36,239 --> 01:45:39,520 directs pedest Yeah. number 36 direct 2599 01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:41,440 where it says 18 square feet. Yeah, 2600 01:45:41,440 --> 01:45:43,199 eight square feet. Yeah, got it. Thank 2601 01:45:43,199 --> 01:45:50,229 you. 2602 01:45:50,239 --> 01:45:53,679 on 35. I don't know if it needs to be 2603 01:45:53,679 --> 01:45:56,880 done, but under event definition, maybe 2604 01:45:56,880 --> 01:45:58,880 we call it a special event throughout, 2605 01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:00,320 maybe we ought to call that special 2606 01:46:00,320 --> 01:46:02,080 event and not just event, but that's 2607 01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:03,360 just to be consistent. 2608 01:46:03,360 --> 01:46:06,239 >> So there's two types of events. There's the event that connects to 2609 01:46:06,239 --> 01:46:07,840 limited duration signage, which is 2610 01:46:07,840 --> 01:46:09,840 really what this is pointing to. So 2611 01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:12,719 again, set start date. So whether it's a 2612 01:46:12,719 --> 01:46:15,360 garage sale, open house, etc. Special 2613 01:46:15,360 --> 01:46:17,119 events, a whole different ball game. So 2614 01:46:17,119 --> 01:46:18,880 >> this is the federal holiday stuff and 2615 01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:20,080 elections. 2616 01:46:20,080 --> 01:46:21,840 Yeah. Yeah. So, whereas event is 2617 01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:23,920 actually more so I've put my house on 2618 01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:24,480 the market. 2619 01:46:24,480 --> 01:46:24,960 >> Yeah. 2620 01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:26,560 >> Putting my house on the market is the 2621 01:46:26,560 --> 01:46:26,960 event. 2622 01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:35,430 >> Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Thank you. 2623 01:46:35,440 --> 01:46:39,679 » Can Did we ever address or we can't how 2624 01:46:39,679 --> 01:46:41,600 many flags you can have? 2625 01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:43,360 >> The flag ordinance isn't changing. So, 2626 01:46:43,360 --> 01:46:44,800 that's already been addressed and 2627 01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:47,520 already done. Um we've kind of gone 2628 01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:48,639 through that. We're not touching the 2629 01:46:48,639 --> 01:46:51,119 flag ordinance at this point. Um there 2630 01:46:51,119 --> 01:46:53,119 are a few properties still that are out 2631 01:46:53,119 --> 01:46:55,199 of whack with our ordinance. So we that 2632 01:46:55,199 --> 01:46:58,480 is on our to-do list for 2026 bringing 2633 01:46:58,480 --> 01:46:59,280 in lines 2634 01:46:59,280 --> 01:47:01,760 >> under this definition. A corporation 2635 01:47:01,760 --> 01:47:03,760 flag is fine. That's a 2636 01:47:03,760 --> 01:47:05,040 >> So yeah. So that's going to be stricken 2637 01:47:05,040 --> 01:47:05,920 out. Apologize. 2638 01:47:05,920 --> 01:47:06,934 >> Yeah, because we're going to take some 2639 01:47:06,934 --> 01:47:07,840 [clears throat] of that out, right? 2640 01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:10,560 Yeah. The Guinness one or whatever I put 2641 01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:24,709 out Carlsburg. 2642 01:47:24,719 --> 01:47:26,239 I don't I don't have anything else. 2643 01:47:26,239 --> 01:47:28,239 >> Neither do I. 2644 01:47:28,239 --> 01:47:29,280 >> I'm good, too. 2645 01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:32,800 >> All right. Well, again, thank you uh 2646 01:47:32,800 --> 01:47:35,199 council or commission for the feedback. 2647 01:47:35,199 --> 01:47:37,440 It was is much welcome. And and we're 2648 01:47:37,440 --> 01:47:41,679 beginning to be at the finish line and I know this has been a big push for a 2649 01:47:41,679 --> 01:47:44,400 lot of folks. Um but your feedback means 2650 01:47:44,400 --> 01:47:46,480 a lot. um especially coming from from 2651 01:47:46,480 --> 01:47:50,880 all y'all. So, really appreciate it. 2652 01:47:50,880 --> 01:47:53,600 >> Okay. So, uh there's no action or 2653 01:47:53,600 --> 01:47:55,360 anything we have to take on this? 2654 01:47:55,360 --> 01:47:57,760 >> No, not at this point. Yeah, we'll we'll 2655 01:47:57,760 --> 01:48:00,080 uh recue some of these and uh tee it up 2656 01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:02,400 and then we'll take your comments, do a 2657 01:48:02,400 --> 01:48:04,239 little bit more finessing, and then take 2658 01:48:04,239 --> 01:48:06,400 it to council with a couple of 2659 01:48:06,400 --> 01:48:07,920 considerations based on what 2660 01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:10,400 Commissioner Peterson mentioned. 2661 01:48:10,400 --> 01:48:14,080 Okay, moving on to item seven. 2662 01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:16,000 Planning commissioners comments that 2663 01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:16,480 nothing. 2664 01:48:16,480 --> 01:48:18,800 >> The only thing I have is echoing what 2665 01:48:18,800 --> 01:48:20,719 Jack said earlier and the appreciation 2666 01:48:20,719 --> 01:48:22,159 of staff. We had to get it started 2667 01:48:22,159 --> 01:48:24,239 somewhere. My gosh. You know, I know 2668 01:48:24,239 --> 01:48:25,679 it's been a long time coming, but it's 2669 01:48:25,679 --> 01:48:27,840 hard to get in and I'm looking at the 2670 01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:29,840 old one and the new one. I'm doing this, 2671 01:48:29,840 --> 01:48:32,400 >> you know, for about a day and a half. 2672 01:48:32,400 --> 01:48:34,159 >> Oh my gosh. You know, and I have some of 2673 01:48:34,159 --> 01:48:35,679 it memorized, some of it not. So, I know 2674 01:48:35,679 --> 01:48:37,840 what you guys went through to do that in 2675 01:48:37,840 --> 01:48:39,679 the middle of also other jobs that you 2676 01:48:39,679 --> 01:48:41,520 have. So, appreciate it. 2677 01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:43,280 >> No, and it's it's been good. I mean, I 2678 01:48:43,280 --> 01:48:45,360 know Lisa's does a lot of our signs and 2679 01:48:45,360 --> 01:48:47,920 I think on Friday, uh, we had a question 2680 01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:49,600 from an applicant and I'm like, "Hey, 2681 01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:52,639 use the new graphic [laughter] 2682 01:48:52,639 --> 01:48:54,880 because that explains it to a te exactly 2683 01:48:54,880 --> 01:48:57,119 what we're what we're using." So, um, 2684 01:48:57,119 --> 01:48:58,639 because the the definition didn't 2685 01:48:58,639 --> 01:49:00,000 change, so we went ahead and used the 2686 01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:00,960 new graphic for that. 2687 01:49:00,960 --> 01:49:02,880 >> And following up on that, you're I know 2688 01:49:02,880 --> 01:49:04,480 you mentioned it, design guidelines. 2689 01:49:04,480 --> 01:49:06,560 We're going to that that's going to be 2690 01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:07,760 tough too, isn't it? 2691 01:49:07,760 --> 01:49:09,679 >> It is and uh you know Lisa's 2692 01:49:09,679 --> 01:49:11,520 spearheading that and I have an update 2693 01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:12,480 in regards to that. So, 2694 01:49:12,480 --> 01:49:15,669 >> okay, 2695 01:49:15,679 --> 01:49:17,600 » I would just echo well done folks. I 2696 01:49:17,600 --> 01:49:19,199 know it's a lot of work and a lot of 2697 01:49:19,199 --> 01:49:21,679 detail and and you're taking some risks 2698 01:49:21,679 --> 01:49:23,520 there and I think it's worthwhile. So, 2699 01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:27,510 thank you very much. 2700 01:49:27,520 --> 01:49:30,320 » Okay, item eight, community director 2701 01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:31,280 report. 2702 01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:32,960 >> All right. Thank you. So, uh, city 2703 01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:34,480 council, just as many of you know, 2704 01:49:34,480 --> 01:49:37,760 upheld your decision on 1704 mission. 2705 01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:39,760 So, uh, just a quick update of where 2706 01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:41,360 we're at. The applicant did request a 2707 01:49:41,360 --> 01:49:43,360 lifting of the existing stop work. Um, 2708 01:49:43,360 --> 01:49:45,040 however, we did inform them of the plans 2709 01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:46,480 that needed to be submitted per our 2710 01:49:46,480 --> 01:49:49,280 letter and, uh, and review work that's 2711 01:49:49,280 --> 01:49:50,400 beyond the scope of the permit. So, 2712 01:49:50,400 --> 01:49:52,480 that's where we're at right now. Um, 2713 01:49:52,480 --> 01:49:53,840 we're really looking forward to work 2714 01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:55,840 with the applicant and and get this 2715 01:49:55,840 --> 01:49:57,600 items resolved and continue moving 2716 01:49:57,600 --> 01:49:59,679 forward with uh, fining out construction 2717 01:49:59,679 --> 01:50:03,119 of that uh, project. um because overall 2718 01:50:03,119 --> 01:50:05,920 it it is a good project for the city and 2719 01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:07,440 uh you know we are looking forward to 2720 01:50:07,440 --> 01:50:09,920 that. Um city council will be moving 2721 01:50:09,920 --> 01:50:12,000 forward to adopt the 2025 California 2722 01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:14,639 building code at its November 24th 2025 2723 01:50:14,639 --> 01:50:16,800 meeting. I know that didn't go to you um 2724 01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:19,199 but we are um part of we are at the end 2725 01:50:19,199 --> 01:50:22,159 of our uh tri triannual cycle. Um 2726 01:50:22,159 --> 01:50:24,239 there's one sort of caveat to that is 2727 01:50:24,239 --> 01:50:26,639 our our residential um there was a new 2728 01:50:26,639 --> 01:50:28,719 state law uh passed as a part of the 2729 01:50:28,719 --> 01:50:30,719 budget that freezes uh residential 2730 01:50:30,719 --> 01:50:32,320 building code updates. So this will be 2731 01:50:32,320 --> 01:50:33,679 the last one of those that you'll see 2732 01:50:33,679 --> 01:50:36,000 for the next six years. So um it kind of 2733 01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:37,440 gives a lot more certainty moving 2734 01:50:37,440 --> 01:50:41,280 forward. Um so which is great. Um we 2735 01:50:41,280 --> 01:50:42,719 will be having a December meeting. I 2736 01:50:42,719 --> 01:50:44,480 know there was some questions of that 2737 01:50:44,480 --> 01:50:45,840 and that is to discuss short-term 2738 01:50:45,840 --> 01:50:48,960 rentals. So um that's we're currently at 2739 01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:52,080 the finish line on that one. um which is 2740 01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:54,239 fantastic. Um that is now in for review 2741 01:50:54,239 --> 01:50:55,840 at the city attorney's office. The city 2742 01:50:55,840 --> 01:50:57,679 attorney, I know Taylor's looking at it. 2743 01:50:57,679 --> 01:50:59,679 Um but hopefully we'll get that into 2744 01:50:59,679 --> 01:51:01,280 ordinance format. It's based on the 2745 01:51:01,280 --> 01:51:03,520 recommendations of just limiting our uh 2746 01:51:03,520 --> 01:51:05,440 short terminals into the village only 2747 01:51:05,440 --> 01:51:07,600 and then carving out if you had an exist 2748 01:51:07,600 --> 01:51:10,639 if you have a R3 um and you have an 2749 01:51:10,639 --> 01:51:12,800 existing permit um you'll be able to 2750 01:51:12,800 --> 01:51:14,880 apply for one with some caveats and 2751 01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:16,320 exceptions. But again, that'll be coming 2752 01:51:16,320 --> 01:51:18,320 to you for recommendation and we'll have 2753 01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:20,639 that in ordinance format. Um, and as a 2754 01:51:20,639 --> 01:51:21,760 part of that, we're actually going to 2755 01:51:21,760 --> 01:51:23,840 beginning our begin our enforcement of 2756 01:51:23,840 --> 01:51:25,520 our ordinance since there's no path 2757 01:51:25,520 --> 01:51:27,840 forward at this point for folks that are 2758 01:51:27,840 --> 01:51:29,600 operating short-term rentals outside of 2759 01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:31,520 the village. So, um, letters will be 2760 01:51:31,520 --> 01:51:33,840 going out at the end u by midmon 2761 01:51:33,840 --> 01:51:36,080 informing them that they need to um 2762 01:51:36,080 --> 01:51:39,520 cease uh their their operations. 2763 01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:42,480 Um, speaking of uh we are moving along 2764 01:51:42,480 --> 01:51:43,599 with the administrative draft, the 2765 01:51:43,599 --> 01:51:45,840 design handbook. Um, so we're actually 2766 01:51:45,840 --> 01:51:48,480 hoping for um either a December or 2767 01:51:48,480 --> 01:51:51,199 January to bringing that to the DRC very 2768 01:51:51,199 --> 01:51:52,719 similar to what we did here is we'll 2769 01:51:52,719 --> 01:51:55,280 bring it to DRC first. Um, get some sort 2770 01:51:55,280 --> 01:51:58,639 of feedback, re re-edit, reit it down 2771 01:51:58,639 --> 01:52:00,320 and then bring it to you for that sort 2772 01:52:00,320 --> 01:52:02,880 of second check-in on feedback and then 2773 01:52:02,880 --> 01:52:04,560 bring it to city council and then we'll 2774 01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:08,000 re-reverse it out back to everybody. Um, 2775 01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:11,040 so um, Lisa's been uh doing that and 2776 01:52:11,040 --> 01:52:13,119 she's I'm the one now that's behind. But 2777 01:52:13,119 --> 01:52:14,880 I'm sorry, Lisa, that I need to review 2778 01:52:14,880 --> 01:52:17,040 that. Um, but we are looking to get that 2779 01:52:17,040 --> 01:52:19,040 done, uh, here at the latter end of this 2780 01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:20,960 year and at the beginning of next year. 2781 01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:22,800 And then, um, speaking of the sign 2782 01:52:22,800 --> 01:52:24,880 ordinance, it either returned either in 2783 01:52:24,880 --> 01:52:27,280 January, uh, to this body or in 2784 01:52:27,280 --> 01:52:28,719 February. So, we don't know quite yet 2785 01:52:28,719 --> 01:52:30,000 where we're going to land with the city 2786 01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:32,400 council. U, uh, but after, uh, we get 2787 01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:34,800 input from the council, um, we'll, this 2788 01:52:34,800 --> 01:52:36,560 will come back to you. And it'll 2789 01:52:36,560 --> 01:52:38,320 actually come in two forms. One is the 2790 01:52:38,320 --> 01:52:40,880 ordinance format, but also a sign 2791 01:52:40,880 --> 01:52:42,719 handbook. So, we'll be working. So, 2792 01:52:42,719 --> 01:52:44,159 whatever comes out from the city 2793 01:52:44,159 --> 01:52:46,400 council, that's what we'll put into the 2794 01:52:46,400 --> 01:52:48,400 handbook, which will be a much more 2795 01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:50,800 reader friendly, easier to use, 2796 01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:52,159 incorporate some of the graphics that 2797 01:52:52,159 --> 01:52:54,480 we're already doing. And so, that way we 2798 01:52:54,480 --> 01:52:56,000 it's it's a finished product that 2799 01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:58,400 everyone gets to see, and then uh 2800 01:52:58,400 --> 01:52:59,920 everyone now starts playing on the same 2801 01:52:59,920 --> 01:53:03,920 rules. Um, and then finally, we we uh 2802 01:53:03,920 --> 01:53:05,920 bless uh Cole Phillips in our public 2803 01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:08,719 works department. Um, he recovered uh 2804 01:53:08,719 --> 01:53:10,480 two goats that were roaming the street. 2805 01:53:10,480 --> 01:53:12,719 So if you are missing any goats, they 2806 01:53:12,719 --> 01:53:14,159 are at the animal shelter in Santa 2807 01:53:14,159 --> 01:53:16,639 Maria. Um 2808 01:53:16,639 --> 01:53:17,599 so 2809 01:53:17,599 --> 01:53:19,633 >> goats eating eating vegetation. 2810 01:53:19,633 --> 01:53:20,239 [laughter] 2811 01:53:20,239 --> 01:53:22,080 >> Wish we could 2812 01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:23,679 >> um we don't know where they came from. 2813 01:53:23,679 --> 01:53:25,199 So they were just roaming the streets. 2814 01:53:25,199 --> 01:53:26,239 So uh 2815 01:53:26,239 --> 01:53:28,148 >> had some goats eating stuff on the 2816 01:53:28,148 --> 01:53:30,400 [laughter] field over there. So 2817 01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:31,760 >> they're little goats. They're little 2818 01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:34,800 goats. So they're little guys. So, if 2819 01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:36,080 you're missing any goats and you're 2820 01:53:36,080 --> 01:53:38,880 watching, go call animal services and 2821 01:53:38,880 --> 01:53:40,560 hopefully we'll we'll re reunite you 2822 01:53:40,560 --> 01:53:42,400 with your goats. 2823 01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:46,159 >> Can I ask you two questions? The the 2824 01:53:46,159 --> 01:53:48,719 until the design review handbook gets 2825 01:53:48,719 --> 01:53:51,040 changed. This is going to happen sooner 2826 01:53:51,040 --> 01:53:53,280 than that. I mean, the design review 2827 01:53:53,280 --> 01:53:57,360 handbook is still the 2828 01:53:57,360 --> 01:53:58,639 >> Are you talking the design guidelines? 2829 01:53:58,639 --> 01:54:00,080 >> Yes, the guidelines. I'm sorry. 2830 01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:01,440 >> Yes, that's in place. 2831 01:54:01,440 --> 01:54:03,040 >> That is very much in place. that 2832 01:54:03,040 --> 01:54:05,280 actually has to go through a repeal. Um, 2833 01:54:05,280 --> 01:54:06,480 so essentially what will end up 2834 01:54:06,480 --> 01:54:07,760 happening is once we dial in the 2835 01:54:07,760 --> 01:54:10,800 handbook, we come to this the DRC for 2836 01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:11,760 recommendation, the planning 2837 01:54:11,760 --> 01:54:13,679 commissioner recommendation, and the 2838 01:54:13,679 --> 01:54:17,520 city council will adopt and then repeal 2839 01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:18,639 the old guidelines. 2840 01:54:18,639 --> 01:54:20,560 >> The old one stays in place until 2841 01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:22,239 >> correct. Yeah. So, 2842 01:54:22,239 --> 01:54:25,119 >> and the last question, 2843 01:54:25,119 --> 01:54:27,679 um, the the stop work order on on the 2844 01:54:27,679 --> 01:54:29,440 St. George property, I don't even know 2845 01:54:29,440 --> 01:54:32,320 the address, 1704. Was that because of 2846 01:54:32,320 --> 01:54:34,320 the design or was that because of some 2847 01:54:34,320 --> 01:54:37,199 other structural things? 2848 01:54:37,199 --> 01:54:39,520 >> So in the interior there's a substantial 2849 01:54:39,520 --> 01:54:40,719 amount of work that deviated from the 2850 01:54:40,719 --> 01:54:42,480 approved permit in the interior in terms 2851 01:54:42,480 --> 01:54:44,639 of the floor plan. Um also on the 2852 01:54:44,639 --> 01:54:46,960 exterior flat work it it deviated 2853 01:54:46,960 --> 01:54:48,480 particularly when it comes to storm 2854 01:54:48,480 --> 01:54:50,000 water drainage. So what a lot of people 2855 01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:52,000 don't understand is storm water drainage 2856 01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:53,599 is heavily integrated into the amount of 2857 01:54:53,599 --> 01:54:56,080 what's called impervious surface. And so 2858 01:54:56,080 --> 01:54:57,920 the minute you start adding impervious 2859 01:54:57,920 --> 01:55:00,080 surface that really changes the calculus 2860 01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:02,159 of your drainage and it may trip you 2861 01:55:02,159 --> 01:55:06,480 into doing additional um uh le features 2862 01:55:06,480 --> 01:55:09,199 or other sort of underground work that 2863 01:55:09,199 --> 01:55:11,119 needs to get done to retain the storm 2864 01:55:11,119 --> 01:55:13,119 water. So it's actually a bigger deal 2865 01:55:13,119 --> 01:55:15,360 than meets the eye. Um, so that was 2866 01:55:15,360 --> 01:55:21,440 mainly the main trip up was the ADA, the the other storm water and the other 2867 01:55:21,440 --> 01:55:24,000 sort of interior work where you can't, 2868 01:55:24,000 --> 01:55:25,679 you know, run an inspection and then the 2869 01:55:25,679 --> 01:55:26,960 inspection essentially becomes a 2870 01:55:26,960 --> 01:55:28,560 correction of either demo what you're 2871 01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:29,920 doing and put it back to what it's 2872 01:55:29,920 --> 01:55:32,719 supposed to be or go revise your plans 2873 01:55:32,719 --> 01:55:35,520 and tell us what it actually is and 2874 01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:37,599 we'll inspect for what it actually is. 2875 01:55:37,599 --> 01:55:38,800 So that that's where we're at. 2876 01:55:38,800 --> 01:55:39,520 >> That's where it's at. 2877 01:55:39,520 --> 01:55:40,800 >> That is where it's at. 2878 01:55:40,800 --> 01:55:44,229 >> Okay. 2879 01:55:44,239 --> 01:55:46,400 I do have a question related to that 2880 01:55:46,400 --> 01:55:49,360 project. Um because the project is 2881 01:55:49,360 --> 01:55:53,440 scaled um are is the developer still 2882 01:55:53,440 --> 01:55:56,960 having to meet uh building codes, door 2883 01:55:56,960 --> 01:55:58,159 heights and such. 2884 01:55:58,159 --> 01:56:00,639 >> So a lot of folks uh there were 2885 01:56:00,639 --> 01:56:02,880 questions about the door heights. Um 2886 01:56:02,880 --> 01:56:04,560 there are actually two doors. People 2887 01:56:04,560 --> 01:56:06,719 don't realize that there's the main 2888 01:56:06,719 --> 01:56:09,599 entry door which is actually to code 2889 01:56:09,599 --> 01:56:11,280 >> usually in the back where you can't see 2890 01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:14,000 it. Yeah. And so that that's the and 2891 01:56:14,000 --> 01:56:15,280 that's part of the issue with the floor 2892 01:56:15,280 --> 01:56:17,760 plan is those doors were never called 2893 01:56:17,760 --> 01:56:20,080 out whether they were ingress egress. 2894 01:56:20,080 --> 01:56:22,320 And so these these technically can't be 2895 01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:24,480 ingress egress doors. So they got to 2896 01:56:24,480 --> 01:56:28,080 figure that out. And and so um you know 2897 01:56:28,080 --> 01:56:30,480 but there was that comment of well 2898 01:56:30,480 --> 01:56:33,280 that's not even up to code. No it is. 2899 01:56:33,280 --> 01:56:34,960 There's just the main entrance is on the 2900 01:56:34,960 --> 01:56:37,520 side that is actually to code and done 2901 01:56:37,520 --> 01:56:42,310 per plan. Glad to hear that. Yeah. 2902 01:56:42,320 --> 01:56:45,280 Okay. Nothing else. 2903 01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:51,990 Okay. We're adjourned at 854. 2904 01:56:52,000 --> 01:56:55,000 » 7:54.