[0:00] And we are going to start with the
pledge. And I am going to congratulate
[0:04] and introduce our new fire chief Chris
Corbin to lead us in the pledge tonight.
[0:14] » To the flag of the United States of
America
[0:18] for it stands for it stands nation
[0:24] liberty and justice for all.
[0:30] instructions on exiting the building in
case of emergency and review of
[0:34] technology options. Jesse Baker, city
manager.
[0:38] » Thank you. So, for those who are here
with us today in the room, thank you for
[0:41] joining us. If there is an emergency in
this room during the meeting, you can go
[0:45] out the rear of the auditorium on the
left or right side and then turn left or
[0:49] right to get outside. Uh for those
joining us remotely, thank you for
[0:53] joining us as well. If you'd like to
speak during any item on the council
[0:57] agenda, please use the raise hand
function in the webinar and I will have
[1:00] the chair call on you. Um otherwise, we
are not monitoring the chat for content.
[1:07] » Thank you, Jesse. Agenda review. Are
there any additions, deletions, or
[1:11] changes in order of agenda items?
>> Tim?
[1:17] » No, no, nothing for me. Thank you.
>> Um hearing none, we'll move on to item
[1:22] four. This is comments and questions
from the public for items not related to
[1:27] the agenda.
Please come up to the podium. Make sure
[1:31] the green light is on and announce your
name.
[1:37] » Make sure the Make sure the lights on.
Please.
[1:50] » How about now?
>> There you go. Okay, there we go. Okay.
[1:53] Um,
my name is Mitchell Cypes. I'm here um
[1:57] actually in two different capacities.
one as president of the Dorset Farms
[2:02] Home Association board and I'm also here
as candidate for Chin and a uh for state
[2:08] representative and I'll just before I
get into this I'll just simply say as a
[2:14] recently retired municipal employee who
staffed a DRB for quite a long time I I
[2:20] feel for you in uh what you're going
through right now. So, um I know this is
[2:26] um I want to see if the city council
could help the Dorset Farms community
[2:30] with a bit of a problem that we have. Um
uh we're not get we're only getting a
[2:35] little bit of our mail and uh the post
office um they are basically blaming
[2:41] staff shortages and such and for some
particular reason they believe that a
[2:46] 221 unit subdivision
um in a very concentrated development is
[2:52] somehow a rural route and they're
basically telling us that they don't
[2:56] have to deliver our mail um that we have
to go to Pine Street to actually get our
[3:02] And um
and uh and the worst part probably is
[3:08] that they didn't even announce it to us.
They just basically just stopped
[3:11] delivering most of our mail and uh this
becomes uh in part a city problem
[3:18] because uh many of us did not get our
absentee ballots. Now I I have full
[3:24] confidence that uh the city clerk mailed
them all and so forth. This is clearly a
[3:30] thing for um you know clear clearly a
thing on the post office that we're
[3:35] actually not getting our mail and um you
know we're informing our neighbors and
[3:40] trying to get the the word out uh
internally but um I want to know if the
[3:45] uh city could possibly help us maybe say
something to the post office especially
[3:51] I mean I don't want to be as the
candidate in a situation we're going to
[3:54] request that the absentee ballots be
delayed until this uh matter gets
[3:59] resolved. But if the city can do
something about that, uh the community
[4:04] very appreciative.
[4:08] » Thank you.
[4:11] » Any other comments?
[4:17] » Good evening.
>> My name is uh Carl Hardman and I'm here
[4:21] today to um present an app that I
created um called First Step Vermont. Um
[4:27] I built this. What's the name of it?
>> First Step Vermont.
[4:29] » First Step.
>> Mhm. Um, so I built this app because I
[4:34] noticed that there are a lot of
resources out there in uh Vermont for
[4:39] people in need. Um, and but it they're
hard to find. So, what this app actually
[4:46] does is um you just go straight to the
app. You take the and it'll help you
[4:52] with that first step to get um started
to where you need to go and uh finding
[4:57] help. Um what I'm here looking for
actually is um to work directly with um
[5:05] um any of anyone in like this higher
community leadership. Um, I did talk to
[5:11] uh
Chief Brulet and uh Miss Baker there
[5:16] about the app before and he said that he
would uh start working with me also. And
[5:21] I have um a bunch of packets to hand out
or can answer any questions
[5:29] after the meeting.
[5:42] I sounds really interesting. I Let's
Let's have a conversation.
[5:46] » Yeah. And I think connecting with Chief
Pro was the way to start for sure.
[5:50] » Yes. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[5:51] » Thank you.
[5:57] Anyone else in the audience or online?
>> Loretta has her hand up. Lora Marott,
[6:03] please.
I was just wondering how I was going to
[6:08] be unmuted, but I just got a message
saying I could click that and unmute
[6:12] myself. So, yes, my name's Loretta
Marriott. I live um on Mills Avenue in
[6:18] South Burlington. And um I was um I'm
calling your attention to the fact that
[6:26] in my opinion, Red Rocks Park needs some
attention. You might wonder why I'm um
[6:31] speaking to you now. And that is that um
I haven't been able to be um you know
[6:37] hiking around Red Rocks Park, which is
my usual um for quite a few months now.
[6:43] And um now I have been able to. So, um
here is what my um concern is and that
[6:52] um would be number one um there's
serious erosion in the park and number
[6:58] two there's damage to the more than 100
year old rock walls supporting the
[7:04] trails. Um, I sent some uh photographs
today to um Andrea who forwarded them to
[7:14] um Jesse and Nicholas. Um I have lots
more photographs and I was thinking that
[7:21] it might be great if I could meet with
um perhaps Nicholas. He called back
[7:26] while I wasn't here. So we'll talk more.
Um, but I have some suggestions for
[7:31] that. Um, what to do about this
situation. Um, one, two, three, four,
[7:38] five. And I don't know if you want to
hear them or if you want me to just um,
[7:43] call it uh, good for now.
>> I think it makes sense, Loretta, for you
[7:48] to leaz with Nicholas or staff from the
Department of Public Works and um, they
[7:55] can vet things that make sense and then
bring it back to us.
[8:00] Okay, I will. The reason why I'm, you
know, um, bringing it to you and, uh,
[8:05] thought I would speak to Nicholas is
because it's kind of a, um, a multi-EP
[8:10] department thing. You know, there's
public works and, there's parks and
[8:14] wreck and, you know, um, whatnot. Uh, I
don't think that it's just one, um, part
[8:21] of the, um, city structure that's going
to be able to take care of, you know, a
[8:27] lot of these things. So I will meet with
Nicholas and thank you very much.
[8:32] » Thank you so much.
Anyone else in the audience or online?
[8:40] » Okay. So we'll move on to item five,
councilor's announcements and reports on
[8:47] committee assignments and city managers
report. And Elizabeth, would you like to
[8:51] go?
>> Sure. I was uh on vacation since our
[8:55] last meeting, but um I don't recall if I
had reported out on the um meeting of
[9:01] the uh housing committee. So I wanted if
I'm repetitive, I'll ask for your
[9:07] forgiveness, but I think it's worth
highlighting. Uh the housing committee
[9:10] met with Jasmine Hurley who's the
housing initiative director from Wooki
[9:14] um and had an opportunity the the
primary discussion on the last meeting's
[9:20] agenda was on the housing trust and the
committee meets again tomorrow but there
[9:26] was a lot of good information exchanged
on how Wooki has structured their
[9:31] housing trust and the programs that they
fund with that um as a fair amount of
[9:35] benchmarking work that the committee is
doing in terms of coming forward with
[9:39] recommendations um to council on how to
move forward with our own housing trust.
[9:44] Um and that is it with um the one
comment that I will be at the um SBBA
[9:52] meeting at the airport tomorrow. Um I'm
just trying to think if I have anything
[9:57] else here. Um, I did have an opportunity
to sit in with Lori on a preview of the
[10:02] Civic Soul um, presentation that uh,
we'll all see and that's getting revised
[10:08] and updated on the master plan for um,
open space and uh, parks. Um, and um, I
[10:16] think everybody's going to be excited
about that. I think that is it for now.
[10:20] Thank you.
>> Thank you, Elizabeth.
[10:22] Tim, if you're still there hopefully.
Um, anything to report?
[10:28] » I am here. Can you hear me?
>> Yes.
[10:30] » So, uh, it was a pretty light two weeks.
I felt like a a bit of a vacation from
[10:35] city council, but in that time, um, I
did have a conversation with counselors
[10:40] and Steve and Loretta Marriott were
there and they were asking about some
[10:44] erosion in Red Rocks Park. So, it looks
like she beat me to the punch tonight by
[10:49] coming in. Thank you very much, Fetta,
if you're still online. Um, we have
[10:54] concerns about that. Uh, also I attended
the SB3C reception uh at the home suit
[11:02] and uh could not stay for the whole time
because I had to meet some uh my family
[11:06] for dinner because my son went back to
Taiwan for a second year of grad school
[11:10] at the end of August. And uh the public
arts committee is meeting uh in a couple
[11:16] days midday to do an evaluation about
the latest suggestion by the curator for
[11:21] a a one uh person artist show. Um I
won't be able to attend that. And that's
[11:27] all I have. Thank you.
>> Uh thank you Tim. Um before I go I just
[11:32] want uh folks in person to know that I
brought a basket of fruit fresh picked
[11:37] from some apple trees and I think
there's some peaches still left. So,
[11:40] anyone's welcome to grab if you would
like. Okay. Um, so, uh, I also attended
[11:47] the SBC3 event. Really excited about,
um, Lunix coming to the corner here on
[11:52] Market Street. I attended the the Reckon
Park in it, which was really something.
[11:56] the number of people there that
volunteer um for our wreck and parks
[12:00] department is is um uh it's it's really
testament to the community and the
[12:07] amazing number of events that our
department is able to hold every year uh
[12:13] just blew me away. It was several
hundred or something. I mean so multiple
[12:17] events a day I just you know just really
something and um we have a great
[12:21] department. I was at um the uh sendoff
retirement um for our former um chief
[12:30] and and and deputy city manager Steve
Lock who is um moving on to bigger and
[12:36] better as the president of the
international firefighters association
[12:40] who knew from South Burlington. Um,
there was also an incredibly well done,
[12:45] moving, just really, really moving
testament to Steve. The number of folks
[12:50] who spoke so highly of him um obviously
not surprised um was was really was
[12:56] really something. I was deeply moved um
by that event. And today there was a
[13:01] section committee meeting and an
economic development committee meeting.
[13:06] the at the economic development
committee, we learned um and I think
[13:09] this number is right that our city
center had 11.7 million visitors last
[13:15] year.
Burlington only had 7 million visitors
[13:19] and I guess it's the mall. So, um much
more than than I knew than I would have
[13:27] guessed. So, I guess we're doing we're
doing pretty good. A lot of people come
[13:31] to South Burlington. Um pretty nice. Uh,
and we we discussed some of what we're
[13:37] going to discuss tonight. There was some
good feedback on our proposed changes to
[13:41] the quality of life ordinance. So, that
was good. Sex is continuing to do their
[13:45] work. They worked on their work work
plan, a schedule for watering, discussed
[13:49] a little bit that they've got these
these big tanks out there now that are
[13:53] not the most attractive, but we need
them to support the um plantings that
[13:57] we're going to be doing in Eldidge. And
hopefully there'll be a plan over time
[14:01] to get um maybe better watering system
into that cemetery. We talked a little
[14:06] bit about the Shelbert Road Cemetery,
the need for a fence and and other
[14:10] things. Um so that's all I have. Jesse,
>> great. Thanks. Um I have quite a few
[14:17] things and Nicholas, if I don't say
something you want to hit on, feel free
[14:21] to add. Um so we are just for
community's awareness we are officially
[14:25] rescheduling our September 21st council
meeting to September 22nd. That will be
[14:30] warned widely. Um before that is our
green community festival on the 19th
[14:35] from 11 to 3 here at city um city hall
and the library and on market street. We
[14:41] are still looking for volunteers. So
folks are interested in volunteering um
[14:45] please get in touch with anybody from
the energy committee or Betina Migz. Um,
[14:49] we are also looking for volunteers for
the flyby 5K on October 3rd. That's the
[14:55] 5K at the airport that runs from 7:00
a.m. to 9:00 a.m. So, if folks are
[14:59] interested, um, registration is closed,
but you could still come and volunteer
[15:02] and be a part of the community event.
Um, and you can email our recreation
[15:07] staff, any of them, if you are
interested.
[15:10] Um, the Secretary of State will be
sending all registered Vermont voters
[15:14] the general election ballots u beginning
on September 21st. So, starting
[15:19] September around September 25th here at
city hall, we will become a voting
[15:23] center. Um, so you will see the the uh
voting booths go up and will become um
[15:29] area not for campaigning.
Um, I want to share with the community
[15:34] and the council, you can also see this
on the DRB agenda that uh the DRB this
[15:39] week held a sketch plan application for
the former Pillsbury Manor um property
[15:44] on Willist Road. Um that's including
subdividing that property into two
[15:48] parcels with the intent of changing one
of the buildings from uh formerly
[15:54] congregate care use to apartment use. Um
so it's the first uh new adaptive reuse
[16:00] that we will see in the city following
the council approving the LDRs a few
[16:03] months ago or last month.
Um as the council knows, we have our
[16:08] tier 1A act 250 application in. We have
our land use review board site visit
[16:13] this week and then they will have 30
days to uh provide feedback on our
[16:17] application. So we will hear later in
the fall. Um Erica, jump in here if I
[16:24] say anything incorrectly. At your first
meeting in February, the council
[16:27] approved that traffic signal priority
project. So, um allowing buses within a
[16:34] very narrow parameter to preempt the
lights to maintain the public transit um
[16:39] schedule of folks being able to use
public transit and get to where they're
[16:42] going. It's been very successful. Um
since June, red light delays on the bus
[16:48] system is down over 60%. So, it is
working and we haven't I have not heard
[16:52] any uh complaints about that preeemption
or changing traffic patterns.
[16:57] Um work on Garden Street connecting over
to Midas continues. Uh the water line
[17:02] has been installed and they are now
working on the storm water and drain
[17:05] drainage work. Um they're still on track
to open the road at the end of November
[17:10] this year, which is great. Um thank you
to Erica and her team for continuing
[17:14] that work. Um, as the council knows and
hopefully the committee knows, we have
[17:19] um an economic mobility program that's
shared between uh Shelurn, South
[17:24] Burlington, Essex Junction, and Wooki
with an economic mobility specialist
[17:28] employed by CCRPC with the four
entities, four municipalities. We had
[17:33] our first event at the library at the
end of August with presentations from
[17:36] the Vermont Business Development Center,
SCORE, and the Vermont Small Business
[17:40] Law Center. um was pretty well attended
with about 15 entrepreneurs from South
[17:46] Burlington in the region looking to um
build their businesses and grow uh their
[17:51] entrepreneurialship here in the city.
So, we're happy to see that kicking off.
[17:56] Um and then finally, just wanted to give
a big shout out to our recreation team.
[18:00] Thank you, Andrew, also for recognizing
them. Uh last weekend over a 24-h hour
[18:05] period, our team managed the farmers
market, the new parkfest um event, and
[18:10] the international food festival. So,
between our very small team, they
[18:13] coordinated seven different locations
with 12 musical asks acts and over 40
[18:18] vendors within a 24-h hour period on
Friday and Saturday. So, good job to
[18:22] them. Um beautiful weekend for it.
That's what I've got. Thanks. Sorry,
[18:28] Nicholas. doing it.
[18:37] » Okay. So, we're going to move on to item
six. Uh Tim, are you still on the line?
[18:42] » I am.
>> Okay, great. So, our consent agenda. So,
[18:45] item 6A, consider and sign
dispersements. Item 6B, adopt 2026
[18:52] Vermont Town, Road and Bridge Standards.
Item 6 C, award the construction
[18:58] contract for the DPW site improvements
project to SD Island and authorize the
[19:02] inter interim director of public works
to execute and manage the contract. Item
[19:07] 6D, approve the truck financing. Can I
have a motion to approve the consent
[19:13] agenda?
>> So moved.
[19:15] » Do I have a second?
>> Second.
[19:17] » I have a motion and a second. All those
in favor say I.
[19:21] » I.
>> Tim.
[19:23] » I.
>> I. That's unanimous.
[19:26] » Thank you.
So, we'll move on to item seven.
[19:31] » So, I'm sorry to do this to you, but
both of these public hearings are seven.
[19:35] Okay.
>> So, you need to vamp for eight minutes.
[19:38] » So, we are going to pause for a few
minutes um because we've worn the
[19:43] hearing for seven and we're a little bit
>> ahead efficient with fewer counselors on
[19:48] the at the table. in theory go to 16 and
17 if you would like.
[19:58] » Okay, let's do 16. So, we're going to
jump to item 16, which is designate a
[20:04] voting delegate for the Vermont League
of Cities and Towns annual meeting
[20:08] scheduled for town fair on October 6,
2026. Jesse Baker, city manager.
[20:15] Um so the Vermont League of Cities and
Towns host town fair each year um on
[20:20] here in South Burlington because we have
the largest conference facility in the
[20:23] state. Um the annual meeting this year
is held the day before on October 6th.
[20:29] Um I am the past president of that board
so I am required to attend and will be
[20:32] there. So I'm happy to vote on behalf of
the council but you certainly can
[20:35] appoint somebody else. Um the reason why
this is particularly
[20:40] um important this year, it's important
on all years, but at the beginning of
[20:44] each bienium, the league sets a policy
agenda and that will be reviewed at the
[20:48] annual meeting and approved at the
October 6 meeting.
[20:54] » Um very good. Do I have a motion?
I'll move to nominate Jesse Baker as the
[21:01] um voting delegate to the Vermont League
of
[21:05] Lang Vermont League of City and Towns
annual meeting.
[21:08] » Thank you.
>> And I will second that motion.
[21:10] » Thank you, Tim. I have a motion and a
second. All uh in favor say I.
[21:15] » I.
>> I.
[21:17] » I. And sorry for any background noise.
>> No, it's all good. So that is unanimous.
[21:22] Congratulations, Jesse.
>> Thank you.
[21:25] Congratulations.
>> And we'll move to item 17 to convene as
[21:31] liquor control commission to consider
the following applications
[21:35] for approval as presented in the agenda.
Do I have a motion to convene as liquor
[21:43] control commissioner?
>> So moved.
[21:45] » Do I have a second?
>> I'll second that.
[21:48] » I have a motion and a second. All in
favor say I.
[21:51] » I.
>> I.
[21:52] » I. I
>> we are now liquor control commission. Um
[21:56] can I have a motion to approve?
>> So moved.
[22:01] » I'll second that.
>> I have a motion a second. All in favor
[22:04] say I.
>> I.
[22:06] » I. And it's.
>> Can I have a motion to come out of look
[22:11] at control commissioner?
>> So moved.
[22:13] » So moved.
>> Second that.
[22:16] » I have a motion in a second. All in
favor say I.
[22:19] » I.
>> I. I. It's unanimous. We are now out of
[22:24] liquor control commission and we still
have five more minutes.
[22:28] » Goodness.
>> You should have listened.
[22:29] » I should have listed them all.
Read them all.
[22:35] So, we'll we'll pause here. Um, we'll
pause here for a few minutes and we will
[22:40] come back.
[22:44] » Are you gonna keep the lines open?
>> Yeah. Well, you don't have to. I mean,
[22:49] you can jump out if you wanted to.
Uh the problem was that it's like uh a
[22:56] 10digit code to type that.
>> So hang on hang on there.
[22:59] » It took me 12 tries
[23:03] because I did I didn't copy paste. I
just had a screenshot of it. So you know
[23:07] anyway I'll figure it out. So I'll I'll
just uh I'll hang on.
[23:11] » What's your what's your ETA by the way?
Well, right now we are passing in front
[23:18] of the innovation center, the LGE plant.
>> Ah,
[23:22] » in Hoola.
>> Yeah.
[23:24] » So, we are headed back to the slip.
>> Okay.
[23:27] » As we speak, the sail is down. The wind
died about
[23:30] » an hour ago, but we had a good five, six
knot wind on the way out to the west and
[23:35] it was really pleasant.
>> Sounds good.
[23:37] » Still really pleasant.
>> Sounds good. Thanks.
[23:40] » And now the sun has come out and so
there's there's going to be a sunset.
[23:43] So, it's uh but pretty nice.
You don't often get to see the the
[23:49] coastline this, you know, from this
perspective if you're on the bike path
[23:52] all the time.
But this is what the New Yorkers see
[23:55] when they look over here. They go, "Oh,
that's Vermont." And we're looking the
[23:58] other way going, "Oh, that's New York."
You know,
[24:34] It's a really good time to grab a piece
of fruit.
[26:08] What's
[26:20] up?
[27:03] Okay,
we are back.
[27:07] Timmy Solen,
>> I am here.
[27:10] » Wonderful. So, we're going to move on to
item seven, which is to hold a second
[27:16] reading and public hearing on updates to
the South Burlington City Ordinance,
[27:21] chapter 14, environment, chapter 20,
miscellaneous offenses, chapter 32,
[27:25] street, sidewalks, and other public
spaces, and chapter 36, traffic, and
[27:30] vehicles, and to resin city policy
2022-05
[27:35] and 2025-03.
These changes address behaviors related
[27:41] to unmet social needs that impact both
an individual's quality of life and the
[27:47] quality of life of the greater
community. With Bill Bur, Bill Bald, our
[27:52] police chief, and Collet McNeel, our
city attorney, presenting. Thank you.
[27:57] » Thank you. Good evening. Uh you he
pretty much said everything I was going
[28:02] to say. Uh these are indeed uh
ordinances that I'm proposing to help um
[28:07] address unmet social needs and and
essentially provide our offices with a
[28:11] tool um to help uh connect individuals
who may otherwise be service resistant
[28:16] to services. Um understanding that not
everybody will accept that or or may not
[28:22] accept that on the first try. We
anticipate u or I anticipate using a
[28:27] progressive enforcement model. Um, and
every one of these ordinances has the
[28:31] ability to be diverted to services and
that will be our intent as I I presented
[28:36] over the last several meetings. Now,
[28:40] » so unless the council has questions, I
would propose that you open the public
[28:44] hearing. And would you like me to read
that motion?
[28:47] » I think just before just one other
comment on that. I think we talked about
[28:50] it last time, but just to reinforce it.
Um in our in our in the chief's
[28:54] presentation last time, he showed a
really good image of a police of a of a
[28:58] car having an accident driving over the
median. Um where um one of the purposes
[29:03] of our ordinances, especially in chapter
36, is to address public safety and the
[29:08] safety of people um standing on medians
and the the traveling public and that is
[29:12] a strong motivator for for what we are
doing uh with regard to that those
[29:17] amendments.
>> Thank you. I I had one quick question. I
[29:22] got a call from a community member today
about the um and I I don't know if you
[29:27] can answer this or if it's specific to
the proposed um ordinance change, but it
[29:31] was disposal of drug paraphernelia and
there was some specificity there about
[29:36] sharps containers. Um and their question
was they often do some
[29:45] » Sorry, you probably should open the
public hearing first. I'm sorry.
[29:50] So, the motion would be to um to uh read
the ordinances by title and open a
[29:56] public hearing on amendments to the
South Burlington Code ordinances chapter
[29:59] 14, chapter 20, chapter 32, and chapter
36 for the purpose of addressing public
[30:04] safety and quality of life issues.
>> Do I have a motion?
[30:09] » I'll move that we open the public
hearing.
[30:11] » Do I have a second?
>> And I'll second that.
[30:13] » I have a motion and a second. All in
favor say I.
[30:16] » I. Um, we are now in public session.
>> I I
[30:21] » Thank you, Tim. So, um,
should we maybe before we do the public
[30:27] hearing, Chief, if you want to just
maybe just say a few words just
[30:30] summarize two minutes the the major
changes to the to ordinance?
[30:35] » Sure.
>> Sure. uh chapter 14 environment. The the
[30:40] changes uh would be to uh include the
safe disposal of drug paraphernalia by
[30:45] adding uh that no person shall discard,
possess, keep or store drug path in a
[30:49] manner that the person knows or
reasonably should know would
[30:52] intentionally or otherwise endanger harm
or potentially place an harm the welfare
[30:55] of a child by the inter in intentional
or accidental contact with the same. It
[31:01] will also prohibit or there'll be
language that includes no person shall
[31:05] discard drug paraphernalia except into
sharps, containers, or other receptacles
[31:09] specifically designated for purpose of
discarding drug paraphernalia on school
[31:13] property, daycare property, city parks,
playgrounds, or other properties where
[31:16] the person knows or reasonably shouldn't
know the ch the children congregate.
[31:20] This was to uh address issues or
potential safety concerns of uh drug
[31:26] paraphernalia being or children being
exposed uh to drug paraphernalia.
[31:32] Um the changes also include a
prohibition of littering in the city.
[31:39] Uh, chapter 20, uh, miscellaneous
offenses. Uh, no person shall no hunger
[31:44] intentionally in a public place openly
consume an alcoholic beverage or have in
[31:47] their possession an alcoholic or
intoxicating beverage container. Chapter
[31:52] 32, streets, sidewalks, and other public
places uh will include shelter intents
[31:58] to the definition of structure.
Structure means any assembly of goods
[32:02] and materials including for temporary or
permanent use, shelter or occupancy
[32:05] including but not limited to tents,
bicycle racks, tables, chairs, act
[32:10] access ramps, rails, petitions or
vending machines.
[32:16] Chapter 36, traffic in vehicles. Uh,
unless, it includes language that now
[32:22] says, "Unless required by a traffic
control device applicable to
[32:24] pedestrians, no person shall stop or
stand upon any portion of the roadway to
[32:29] include any traffic island or design or
area designed to divide vehicular
[32:33] traffic. Um both this chapter 36 as well
as um chapter 20 both allow the city
[32:43] manager or uh to allow for a permit to
to either uh
[32:51] vi to to uh to be in the roadway or to
possess u alcoholic beverages in public
[32:59] or consume alcoholic beverages in
public.
[33:02] All of them contain language uh that
will allow for uh we've added language
[33:09] in addition to language that currently
exist in our ordinances that allow for
[33:14] municipal the issuing municipal offic to
to uh divert the the offense to a
[33:20] restore of justice program. We we also
added uh or an appropriate diversion
[33:25] program as determined by the city
manager or the city man design that is
[33:28] designed to assist the individual
meeting unmet social needs. Uh so again
[33:33] they're all clearly designed to uh work
with work to divert people to uh a
[33:40] program or which you'll be hearing more
later in the night. uh I contract an
[33:47] employee embedded with this the police
department to connect people to
[33:50] appropriate social services.
[33:57] » Thank you, Chief. So, um members of the
public are welcome to provide uh
[34:02] comments and feedback at this time.
Anyone in the audience?
[34:09] Anyone online?
[34:16] Okay, seeing none, um we'll close the
public hearing and then we can discuss.
[34:21] So motion to Oh yeah.
>> Yep. So the motion would be to close the
[34:25] public hearing on the amendments to
South Burlington Code of Ordinances
[34:28] Chapter 14 2032 and 36.
>> So moved.
[34:32] » Do I have a second?
>> I'll second that.
[34:34] » I have a motion and a second. All in
favor say I. I.
[34:37] » We are now out of public hearing. I
>> thank you Tim.
[34:44] » So now I go on to your next agenda item
and discussion.
[34:49] » Sorry for that.
>> That's all right.
[34:50] » Yeah. Okay. Item 10 is possibly approve
item ah I jumped. Sorry. Item eight
[34:57] possibly approve updates to South Burg
City Ordinance. Chapter 14 environment.
[35:01] Chapter 20 miscellaneous offenses.
Chapter 32 street sidewalks and other
[35:06] public spaces. And chapter 36 traffic
and vehicles. and resend policy city
[35:10] policy
2022-05
[35:14] and 2025-03
[35:19] » Elizabeth
>> so now I will ask those questions for
[35:22] clarification
um one was on disposal of drug
[35:26] paraphernalia and I know there are
Vermont Department of Public Health um
[35:30] guidelines for disposal if a private
citizen comes across and this individual
[35:34] seems to volunteer for cleanup of church
grounds and things like that and
[35:39] indicated um how they are disposing of
it. And I I think when I just glanced
[35:47] over it as you were talking about it,
Chief um this is this is not intended to
[35:53] limit safe disposal to sharps
containers. It's any appropriate
[35:57] container. Is that fair comment?
>> That that's correct. any appropriate
[36:01] containment that is designed to to for
drug personnel to be uh discarded in.
[36:07] Not well, we're the intent of this is
not to simply place it on top of, you
[36:11] know, a pile of trash in an open trash
recepticle where somebody could still
[36:15] access it or somebody unintentionally
pushing trash down may may get stuck
[36:20] with a needle.
>> Yeah. And it it sounded like this person
[36:23] was using safe disposal techniques, but
not specifically sharps containers. Um
[36:29] but close, right? There's a whole host
of ways they can be done. It can be done
[36:32] safely. It doesn't necessarily include a
sharps container.
[36:36] » Okay. Um the other question was around
and I think I knew the answer to this,
[36:40] but just for clarification for um the
public uh regarding the um public safety
[36:48] issues associated with uh traffic uh and
median. Um, this individual asked about
[36:55] adding no soliciting, but I think you
covered that at a prior meeting, which I
[36:59] was not in attendance, but I listened
to,
[37:01] » right? You know, I asking somebody for
money is constitutionally protected.
[37:05] It's it's your your first amendment
right
[37:08] » and that's what I indicated to this
community.
[37:09] » The concern is where you're doing it,
how you're doing it in a location that's
[37:12] safe. And as the city um attorney uh
stated, we did I did show a photo from a
[37:19] crash that happened in July, an
intersection related crash on Williston
[37:23] that forced a vehicle up onto the median
uh at Dorset where an individual often
[37:28] uh sits. Fortunately, the individual
wasn't there at the time, but so there
[37:32] is a in and majority of our serious
bodily injury crashes are accident
[37:37] related or more significant crashes or
intersection related. Um, so this is a a
[37:43] very big safety concern that we that I
have. Um, but additional to that, if
[37:49] there is somebody that is standing on
the median, uh, they're likely doing so
[37:53] because of an unmet social need if we
could connect them to services, we
[37:56] address this the immediate safety
concern and also hopefully improve that
[38:00] individual's quality of life.
And another consideration is just that
[38:05] we did an you know a quick analysis but
most of our medians if not all of our
[38:10] medians are very narrow. Uh we're not a
municipality with huge wide medians
[38:14] where um
you could stand safely. All our medians
[38:19] are mostly narrow and very dangerous to
be standing in in the road.
[38:23] » Right. Thank you. And the last one only
because I didn't know this uh or the
[38:28] answer to this is um are bus stops in
the city um considered non-smoking areas
[38:35] and I don't know who knows that question
or answer that question. I did not know
[38:40] it.
>> I don't know that.
[38:43] » All right. I'll find out and get back to
the individual.
[38:47] Thank you.
Uh Tim, you have any questions or or
[38:52] comments or
>> No, no questions. Ready for the vote.
[38:56] » So, I'll just I just want to note
because we did have at least one
[38:58] constituent ask uh about this. So, the
policy that we are rescending has um
[39:06] pretty nuanced and elaborate procedures
around what a public safety professional
[39:11] should do when um they encounter a
campsite, a tent site, you know, on on a
[39:17] public space. um we are revoking that
policy and replacing with the ordinance.
[39:21] The ordinance prohibits that but gives
the chief discretion
[39:27] um to
address those situations in a
[39:32] compassionate humane way by connecting
individuals with services. Um so
[39:40] you know there's maybe less hair than
meets the eye. the discretion is moving
[39:44] to the public safety professionals to
address those situations with compassion
[39:49] with the additional resources that the
chief has identified and I just just
[39:52] want to make that clear for the
community. So,
[39:57] um with that, we ready for a vote? Okay.
Do I have a motion? I'll make a motion
[40:04] to approve um the ordinance chapter 14,
chapter 20, chapter 32 and chapter 36
[40:12] and resend city council policies 2022-05
2025-3.
[40:19] » Thank you, Elizabeth. Do I have a
second?
[40:22] » I'll second that again.
>> Thank you, Tim. All those in favor say
[40:25] I.
>> I.
[40:26] » I.
>> I. And it is approved unanimously.
[40:30] » Thank you.
Okay. So, we will move on to item nine.
[40:35] We just hold a second hearing and public
hearing on updates to South Burlington C
[40:41] ordinance chapter 22 parks and
recreation and chapter 36 traffic and
[40:46] vehicles. These changes address electric
mobility devices recommend as
[40:52] recommended by our bicycle and
pedestrian committee. inviting Bill Bar,
[40:56] Bill B, police chief Erica Towel,
interim director of public works, and
[41:01] our city attorney, Colin McNeel.
[41:06] » Good evening,
>> are we still open, Jesse? Are we still
[41:10] in?
>> No, you need to open another one. Um, do
[41:14] he can do an intro and then you can open
or you can just go straight to opening
[41:16] if you'd like.
>> Do a quick intro here.
[41:20] » Sure. Sure. At the request of the uh
bike ped committee and our own um
[41:26] complaints that the police departments
received uh we have brought forward uh
[41:31] updates to uh two ordinance two city
ordinances chapter 22 and chapter 36
[41:37] essentially moved uh did some
housekeeping and moved what was in
[41:42] chapter 22 into chapter 36 identified um
the difference between e-tos and ebikes
[41:49] uh and prohibited uh what is now
prohibited on the wreck bike path which
[41:54] is essentially emot uh again as defined
in the in the ordinance.
[42:00] » Thank you chief. So motion to open
public hearing.
[42:05] » So the motion do you have a do you want
me to? You can go ahead and I'll
[42:09] » So the motion would be to read the
ordinances by title and open a public
[42:12] hearing on amendments to the South
Burlington Code of Ordinances Chapter 22
[42:16] and chapter 36 for the purposes of
addressing e-mobility devices.
[42:21] » So moved.
>> I have a second.
[42:24] » I'll second that.
>> Thank you. I have a motion to second.
[42:28] All in favor open the public hearing say
I.
[42:30] » I.
>> I.
[42:32] » Public hearing is now open. Anyone in
the audience or online like to address
[42:39] these ordinance changes?
[42:44] » Please uh come up to the mic and uh
state your name and make sure the green
[42:48] light is on.
[42:56] » So it's not it's not on yet.
[43:02] My name is Isaac Theodore Rayson. I'm a
resident of South Burlington. I had a
[43:07] comment on chapter 32, although I
believe it's already passed.
[43:11] » No, please. This is the opportunity to
to make
[43:14] » um I would like to suggest making an
amendment to the wording
[43:20] on
[43:24] section 32 and 30 uh 32 and 23. I'm
actually So yeah, I'm sorry. 32 was the
[43:33] last agenda item. So we we've already
we've already passed that.
[43:37] » Okay. And no comment is made.
>> Okay. Sorry. Yeah.
[43:48] » Any other comments from the public?
[43:53] » Okay. Can I have a motion to close the
public hearing?
[43:57] » So moved. A second.
>> I'll second that.
[44:00] » I have a motion and a second. All in
favor say I.
[44:02] » I.
>> We are now out of public hearing. And
[44:06] » I.
>> Thank you, Tim. And we will move on to
[44:08] item 10. Possibly approve updates to
South Burlington City Ordinance Chapter
[44:13] 22, Parks and Recreation, and Chapter
36, Traffic and Vehicles. Phil Ball,
[44:18] Erica Tao, and Colin McNeil.
>> Don't read it. I can just say um one of
[44:26] like the what we basically did was we
took the ordinances that was in chapter
[44:30] 22, deleted that, moved it over to to
chapter 36 um and in so doing
[44:36] incorporated that ordinance into this
and then adopted recommendations that
[44:41] the bike ped committee had recommended.
[44:47] » Okay. Thank you, Elizabeth.
>> Um no, just a quick comment. I know I
[44:52] was uh listening to something on the
radio today about the evolution of
[44:59] emotos and ebikes and I uh I think this
is the move in the right direction but I
[45:05] also feel like it's going to be an
evolving conversation based on some of
[45:10] the um products that are coming onto the
market and being marketed to our youth.
[45:16] Um because the um I know there's a
a wattage I think of 750. Um, and
[45:24] there's apparently devices out there
that are not pedal assists that look a
[45:29] lot like ebikes and are going over a
thousand and up to 3,000 that are really
[45:36] motorcycles. Um, so I suspect with
technology and access, um, this is maybe
[45:42] an ongoing conversation, but in terms of
uh, public safety and our pedestrian
[45:48] bike access path, um, I think this is
one we have to keep an eye on.
[45:55] » Thank you, Tim. Any comments or
questions?
[46:04] Tim, you still there?
[46:15] Are you looking for me?
>> Yes.
[46:18] » What What state are you in right now?
What are you looking for?
[46:21] » Um comments or we're considering um
approving the uh bike ped um changes.
[46:28] » Right. Right. Right. Are you asking me
do I have any comments? No, I I I
[46:32] support this.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um I just I just wanted
[46:35] to um just clarification really for the
public. I I support this too. The
[46:41] state law already provided for a lot of
this, right? State law already um says
[46:45] that if there's a electric mobility
device or ebike with more than 1000
[46:50] watts, it has to be registered, right?
And it's um it's a motorcycle, you need
[46:54] a license. and state law already
provides I think for um distinctions
[47:00] between
750 watt vehicles as ebikes and above
[47:04] that is not. So just what what um
changes did we make to state law that
[47:13] would not be in effect but for these
changes like what what are we adding?
[47:18] So we we are prohibiting regardless of
you're absolutely correct. If somebody
[47:23] is operating an EOT, anything over 750
watts on the roadway, they have to be a
[47:30] licensed operator. The vehicle has to be
uh it's treated as a motor vehicle. It
[47:35] has to be registered. It has to be
insured, inspected, all those things.
[47:38] What we're saying is even if you do even
if you have the vehicle inspected and
[47:42] insured and you are a licensed operator,
you still cannot operate it on the the
[47:47] wreck bike path.
>> Okay. So, state law provided for that
[47:50] that latter point. Right.
>> Correct. Yeah. We're allowed to regulate
[47:54] what's on our recreation paths and our
sidewalks and state law doesn't cover
[47:57] that. Just gives us the authority to do
so. And so with these amendments, we're
[48:01] we're regulating what uses can be um
made to our our wreck paths and
[48:07] sidewalks. Very good. Okay. Thank you
for that clarification. Um, are we ready
[48:11] for the vote? Have a motion.
>> So, I'll make a motion to
[48:16] » Oh, Tim,
>> yeah, I'm ready.
[48:21] » Can you hear me?
>> Yes.
[48:22] » Yeah.
>> Okay. You're making a motion?
[48:25] » Yeah. Elizabeth was going to make a
motion.
[48:27] » Yes. I'll make the motion to um approve
city ordinance chapter 22 and chapter
[48:34] 36.
>> Do I have a second? I'll second that
[48:38] motion.
>> Thank you. I have a motion and a second.
[48:40] All those in favor say I.
>> I.
[48:42] » I.
>> I.
[48:43] » I. Thank you. Motion is approved
unanimously.
[48:47] » Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[48:48] » Thank you.
>> And we shall move on to item 11.
[48:55] approved contract with Howard Centu to
support a service coordinator to connect
[48:59] individuals with unmet social needs to
appropriate social services as part of
[49:04] the city's overall response to assisting
individuals
[49:08] experiencing unmet social need. Bill
Brolie,
[49:12] » good evening again. Uh yes, this is the
we've been talking and and pleased to to
[49:19] bring forward to tonight what we believe
is a a
[49:25] an agreement that that meets the needs
uh of of the city and the police
[49:29] department in connecting people to
services. This would uh provide through
[49:34] a contract with Howard Center uh an
embedded 30-hour a week um service
[49:38] coordinator or social worker. Um I sent
out an email earlier answering a few of
[49:43] Council Fitzgerald's questions. Um I
believe uh you as this is and we are
[49:49] treating it as a pilot program, there
will be adjustments uh certainly made.
[49:54] uh what data is specifically collected,
the things that are highlighted in the
[49:57] contract are specifically related to
payment and and the contract. Uh but we
[50:02] will continue to work to develop the
pilot program o o o o o o o o o o o o o
[50:06] o o o o o o o o over the next quite
frankly few years uh as we as we
[50:10] determine uh what what our data is is
showing us what how we're being
[50:15] successful uh where the program is being
effective where it isn't being
[50:19] effective. Uh I'm also certain that this
program will highlight uh gaps in
[50:24] service uh needs that we can uh then
advocate uh to have filled.
[50:33] » Thank you chief. Um just the the service
coordinator chief is will be on the
[50:37] ground.
>> Yes, they will be embedded with us at
[50:40] the police department. uh we will have a
a a a supervisory officer assigned as
[50:46] the coordinator for the police
department to coordinate things like
[50:49] when somebody's uh issued a a city
ordinance violation that can be diverted
[50:53] u to to ensure that uh really the
logistical part of that is being carried
[50:58] through so we know when to uh when to
divert the ticket or not. uh we will
[51:03] also be working to you know identify uh
or high frequency uh uses particularly
[51:09] for noncriminal issues that are related
to an unmet social need that will go
[51:14] through that that supervisory officer uh
they will work clo very closely with the
[51:19] the service coordinator but yes they
will be on the ground uh unlike our
[51:23] outreach workers I they will be out in
the community and will work with
[51:26] community members uh certainly but their
goal is not to respond with officers or
[51:32] respond in lie of officers like our
outreach workers do. Our outreach
[51:35] workers through Harvard are really
designed to deal with people in acute
[51:38] crisis, help that person navigate out of
crisis. Uh this position is really
[51:43] designed to uh help people that are
truly experiencing an unmet social need
[51:48] who are not in crisis uh from and get
them connected to services to either
[51:53] limit or um limit any future crisis or
limit really any future police
[51:59] involvement or or public safety
involvement.
[52:04] Thank you.
So, let's see. Um,
[52:09] any public?
[52:18] » Yeah, I think um I think this is uh will
go great with that first step. Vermont,
[52:24] it's on the green.
>> Can you hear me?
[52:28] » Okay, just please state your name again.
Um, my name is uh Carl Hardman. Yeah, I
[52:33] think this would go great with the First
Step Vermont app that I was uh talking
[52:37] about earlier, especially since in those
situations, you know, um going there,
[52:43] not knowing what's going on, and um
being able to just open the app, say
[52:47] exactly what's going on in that
situation, and be directed
[52:52] um to whatever resources is needed um
would help everybody involved at that
[52:58] moment.
Yeah, thank you.
[53:05] » Okay, so um
can I make a couple of comments? Um one,
[53:12] thank you chief for responding to the
questions I had. I did have um a number
[53:17] of question that um Chief Bro responded
to around the credentiing of the um
[53:22] service coordinator which is largely in
the social work area. the um uh
[53:28] outcomes, how outcomes would be
monitored as as the pilot progresses
[53:31] forward. Um and I think uh there's been
a lot of thought given to that. I'm very
[53:36] supportive of this investment. It does
sound like we need to um distinguish in
[53:43] terms of the funding model those
services focused with or utilizing the
[53:47] opioid settlement funds. Um and I
understand that better now. Um I also
[53:53] wanted to understand sort of the
difference between the service
[53:57] coordinator role and our current and
this agreement and the regional access
[54:02] to Howard Center resources which was
also explained that one is sort of
[54:06] crisis oriented and one is really an
ongoing role in support of um really
[54:12] looking at improved outcomes for
individuals who need these services. So
[54:16] I was appreciative of that. Um, the one
area I did want to highlight and I
[54:22] wasn't sure if this was accurate, but I
want to just reinforce it. There was a
[54:26] note in the background information that
there is potential expense for superi
[54:32] supervision through Howard Center and
mileage that could total annually about
[54:39] 77,000. Is that accurate?
>> Yes. And and I've had conversations
[54:44] specifically about those as well. that
is a essentially a worst case scenario.
[54:49] So, uh we will we will have uh input
into that. Again, I don't foresee this
[54:54] individual going out into the community
very very often. Um so, I don't think
[54:59] mileage will be um or if they do out in
the community, we can we can coordinate
[55:03] that through through the police
department. Um so, I don't know if I
[55:08] think to answer your question, yes, it
is it is potentially accurate. That is a
[55:12] worst case scenario, but I absolutely
plan on managing that very very closely.
[55:16] I I don't anticipate those costs being
to that level. That
[55:20] » Yeah. And I mean, just for clarity,
that's about the same amount that we're
[55:23] funding a position that's an 80% FTE, I
believe.
[55:28] » Um, so as we look at sustainable funding
going forward based on the success of
[55:32] this program, that will need to be
factored in as well. Right.
[55:35] » But I appreciate the clarity on that.
Thank you.
[55:37] » Yeah. And and I did um if you looked at
uh at one of the first meetings back on
[55:43] June 1st, I did provide the council uh
with a uh essentially what we our
[55:51] funding request to use funding and a
memo that explained um there was there
[55:56] was money built in for transportation,
there was money built in for training,
[55:59] there's money also. So I I'm confident
that we can cover that u even in the
[56:05] worst case scenario. But again, I don't
anticipate it being there and I will
[56:09] absolutely do everything I can to manage
that so it doesn't uh get to that level.
[56:17] » Uh Tim, any comments, questions?
>> No, no comments. I support this fully.
[56:24] » As do I. And I just want to note, I
think this is an incredibly um creative
[56:30] and really good use of close to
threequarters million dollars that the
[56:36] city's getting um because of the opioid
settlement. And thank you, Chief, for
[56:43] um thinking this through and using those
funds so so wisely for a really great
[56:50] program that um I'm hoping will be
really successful. So yeah, thank you.
[56:57] So if there are no more comments or
questions, do I have a motion to
[57:03] approve?
>> I will move to approve the contract with
[57:06] Howard Center to support a service
coordinator.
[57:09] » Do I have a second?
>> I will second that motion.
[57:12] » Thank you, Tim. I have a motion and a
second. All in favor say I.
[57:15] » I.
>> I.
[57:16] » I.
>> And it is unanimous and approved. Thank
[57:19] you all.
[57:22] » Thank you, Chief. Thank you, Colin.
[57:27] Okay, we are moving on to item 12. A
little bit ahead of schedule. I hope our
[57:34] candidate or states are here. Do we have
the schedule of candidates, Jesse?
[57:39] » So, we have two candidates. Um, D uh
Theodore is that is here in the room.
[57:45] Um, and then the other candidate Dan was
supposed to be here in the room and is
[57:51] not here. So, but we did tell them to
come around 7. So,
[57:56] » so
Theodore is that Theodore, please come
[58:01] down.
>> And um just while Theodore is coming
[58:05] down, I will also note that we do have
an executive session planned for the end
[58:08] of your council meeting to talk about
the uh candidates to the development
[58:11] review board if you are so interested.
[58:15] » Um so, thank you for coming. Please,
please tell us about yourself and why
[58:20] you'd like to be on the DRB.
>> Uh, my name is Theodore Isaac Rayson.
[58:25] I'm an undergraduate student and
resident of South Burlington. Um, I'm a
[58:30] researcher at the University of Vermont
on housing and transportation policy
[58:36] um, in the cities of Burlington, South
Burlington, uh, and in variety of cities
[58:42] in the state of Connecticut. Um, I am
uniquely, um, qualified, I believe, uh,
[58:49] to help on a development review board
due to my knowledge of zoning
[58:52] ordinances,
um, and building restrictions, um, in a
[58:56] variety of states and and cities. Um I
believe that a younger representation on
[59:03] development review board and in city
government in general which is
[59:07] overwhelmingly
um uh participated in by people who are
[59:12] of established residency
um younger generations are often
[59:16] discounted. Um, and a younger candidate
like myself, I believe, uh, would be
[59:22] helpful in in having a unique, uh, view
and perhaps a change of pace on a on a
[59:28] review board of such, uh, what is
usually associated as very mundane
[59:32] activity.
So for my benefit, can you just
[59:37] elaborate
just connect for me um the research that
[59:41] you do with the kind of questions and
issues that the DRB wrestles with?
[59:48] » Sure.
[59:51] » Oh, it's a tough. Um, in terms of
development review, when you're
[59:56] approving and or not approving or
sending back proposals and um, it often
[1:00:01] requires um, going through relatively
strict and rigorous processes that are
[1:00:07] laid out by somebody who is not
yourself, as in you're following the
[1:00:10] laws set out by the government. Um, and
you have to be relatively tight within
[1:00:16] those laws. There's some usually room
for interpretation, which I think some
[1:00:20] people take to liberties. um as is
theirs. Um and my research in particular
[1:00:26] is often about um the existing laws that
are in place uh how they are used and
[1:00:32] understanding development at every
stage. Um we're speaking
[1:00:36] uh mostly about building housing, right?
Let's just say take that as an example
[1:00:40] and using commercial spaces. Um, in most
of my research, I'm covering uh
[1:00:47] increases or decreases or policy changes
that um work to either um hopefully
[1:00:54] improve the development in certain areas
um instead of and make cities more uh
[1:01:00] compatible for uh what usually is
transit oriented folks um people of a
[1:01:07] younger generation preparing our cities
for the future. Um and often I scour
[1:01:11] through much of development papers of
other cities and how things are built.
[1:01:16] Um I am able to um understand what
things are within them, what things are
[1:01:21] not within them. And as mostly a
byproduct of the research, I've kind of
[1:01:25] become uh very um aware of much of what
development review boards deal with. Uh
[1:01:32] usually I'm on the other side of it, but
I would be happy to uh to give some time
[1:01:36] to help out my local government.
Do you feel um that you so DRB as you
[1:01:44] correctly articulated um kind of works
within the constraints of the law and
[1:01:48] has to kind of fairly and objectively
with with some discretion apply the law
[1:01:52] to the matter before the DRB. Do you
feel that you can kind of do that
[1:01:58] objectively and fairly?
>> Um when doing research we always have to
[1:02:03] be fair and objective. There is no
partisan partisanship per se. um I am
[1:02:09] very much able to differentiate between
law and policy and opinion um which is
[1:02:15] something that I have to do on a daily
basis um and it's something I can
[1:02:19] continue to do on development review
board without issue.
[1:02:23] » Thank you. Um so I am going to pause for
a moment. I'm going to welcome our chair
[1:02:30] and I'm gonna hand over the chair.
>> You're doing you're doing a great job.
[1:02:37] I'm trying to get my sea legs back. It's
so choppy out there. Three inch waves.
[1:02:45] » Just nowhere.
>> Good evening, Theodor. I was listening
[1:02:49] to your conversation just now. Sorry for
my tardiness, but I was online the whole
[1:02:54] time with you guys.
>> Yeah.
[1:02:56] » Catch your breath, Tim, and ask a
question. Um, can you, as you probably
[1:03:01] reviewed some of our ordinances and so
forth, you might have had some thoughts
[1:03:05] as to, gee, these are things I'm
researching in my education that I'd
[1:03:09] like to see South Burlington consider.
Can you give some thoughts or ideas of
[1:03:13] what has occurred to you as you looked
at that?
[1:03:16] » U, so I actually just went over with the
city attorney. It was something that I
[1:03:20] randomly caught looking over at one of
your zoning ordinances or definitions, I
[1:03:25] guess, of um, of your housing types. um
in Burlington. I had done a report,
[1:03:32] I would like to say in April, um
studying the effects of um the 2024 uh
[1:03:38] zoning changes which made up to four
units of housing uh by right on one plot
[1:03:43] of land. Um it added some kind of limits
on um lot sizes and setbacks, things
[1:03:50] like this. Um but generally um by right
multif well as in multif family housing
[1:03:57] middle housing in particular with
multiple entrances usually town homes
[1:04:01] which are vertical partitions
um or forms of like multif family so as
[1:04:07] in there are multiple entrances on
multiple floors. Um those two types of
[1:04:12] housing have been known to one not um
not affect neighborhood character in the
[1:04:18] same way an apartment building might.
Um, and you can usually increase
[1:04:22] population density, lower housing costs
for renters specifically, and provide um
[1:04:28] a more of a a transit oriented
development that can be built there. Um,
[1:04:33] as you have more people living in the
same area. Um, there's a multiple
[1:04:39] multitude of studies saying um that the
water requirements and um usually waste
[1:04:45] disposal are usually about the same as a
single family home. they don't quite
[1:04:49] reflect it if it was up policy that was
up to me. Um by right multif family
[1:04:55] housing um on a single plot is very
important. Middle housing it's called.
[1:05:02] » I got a couple questions. So you're a
grad student.
[1:05:05] » I am an undergraduate.
>> Under you're an undergrad student right
[1:05:07] now. Okay. You're So you're now a you
senior junior?
[1:05:11] » Yes.
>> Senior.
[1:05:13] » Junior.
>> You're now a junior. Okay.
[1:05:15] » Second semester. Have you had any chance
to attend a DRB meeting? Did I did they
[1:05:20] get asked that question? No.
>> No, sir. I was asked by
[1:05:23] » Haven't had a chance yet. Yeah. Do do
you know how our review board works at
[1:05:26] all? What process they go through and
you know, so like a developer, a real
[1:05:30] estate person or you know, somebody has
a plan for a project, right? They bring
[1:05:34] it to the city, they go through planning
and zoning. When they finally go to the
[1:05:37] DRB, the first plan is a sketch plan. It
has no legal standing. They just get
[1:05:41] feedback from DRB. they go back, rework
it, bring it back again, and then it
[1:05:45] goes through um preliminary and then
usually final. So, so planning and
[1:05:51] zoning's job is to take all of the
details of that application, then run it
[1:05:56] through the LDRs to find out where there
are conflicts, you know, or possible,
[1:06:00] you know, needs for evaluation. And then
then it that gets that data gets dumped
[1:06:04] on the DRB and then the applicant comes
in for a hearing and they they go
[1:06:08] through it line by line every single
thing you know this fits this fits this
[1:06:12] doesn't fit right and then they look for
feedback from the applicant blah blah
[1:06:15] blah and they try to work out those and
then in in a best case right the DRB
[1:06:19] final approves it right and and then
eventually the permits in the worst case
[1:06:24] they it gets rejected right and they
have to go back and rework on so so
[1:06:28] people in the DRB don't they're not like
on the planning commission they don't
[1:06:31] make any rules right? They are quasi
judicial, right? So, they're the ones
[1:06:34] that are taking input from planning and
zoning and then helping that whole
[1:06:38] process to to tell a developer what what
they need to do, right? What standards
[1:06:42] they have to apply to. So, and so my my
question is do you go home in the
[1:06:47] summer?
>> Um, I was home this summer. I will
[1:06:52] likely not be for the continuing of my
education. I will be here in South
[1:06:56] Burlington. Um, and when you had
mentioned the back and forth process,
[1:07:01] um, It's usually a lengthy process, but
at the end of the day, um is my belief
[1:07:06] that we're here to get things built and
and provide them in a in a way that
[1:07:12] is of the least uh kind of inhibit to
the people who are trying to develop
[1:07:18] them while they follow the law. But
making sure that we're providing helpful
[1:07:22] feedback um instead of just telling
people to go back to the drawing board,
[1:07:26] right? um making sure that we can
provide that helpful feedback um in how
[1:07:30] to correct certain things. I believe
that that's something that I'm I'm able
[1:07:33] to
>> So, the question I'm asking is will you
[1:07:35] be able to attend most of the meetings
if they're twice a month on on Tuesday
[1:07:38] nights at at 7 o'clock?
>> Yes. And I was aware uh that we can also
[1:07:43] use online segments to be able to do
that.
[1:07:46] » Yeah. Yep. And and is your summer is
that is that in Vermont or is that
[1:07:52] somewhere else?
>> I'm originally a resident of the state
[1:07:54] of Connecticut, sir.
>> From where? the state of Connecticut,
[1:07:57] sir.
>> Connecticut. Okay. Yeah. All right. Um I
[1:08:01] guess no other questions. Yeah.
>> But but thank you for applying. I
[1:08:05] appreciate it.
>> Thank you. I was approached by um I
[1:08:08] believe Mrs. Beth Ziggman.
>> Yeah. Counselor.
[1:08:12] » Thank you.
>> Um thank you.
[1:08:15] » Thanks.
[1:08:20] Um, you do have one other candidate, but
um, I do not see them in the room or
[1:08:28] online at the moment.
[1:08:34] » And who was that candidate supposed to
be?
[1:08:37] » Uh, Dan Conland.
[1:08:43] So, I would keep
>> Are we early or
[1:08:46] » We're very early, but we told them to be
here early. Yep.
[1:08:49] » Okay. Okay.
>> If for some reason they come back on
[1:08:54] before we end the meeting, is that okay
if we let them? Okay. Great.
[1:09:00] All right. So, that's the only person we
can interview right now. Okay. So, that
[1:09:04] was item 12. Um, and you didn't do 13
yet, right?
[1:09:10] » Correct. Okay. So, let's move on to item
13. An update on rece and received a
[1:09:13] pres presentation from the city staff
about plans to locate a low barrier
[1:09:18] shelter in South Burlington.
>> Um so, um we wor this agenda item in
[1:09:24] partnership with the Central Vermont
Office of Economic Opportunity. Last
[1:09:28] Wednesday, last Wednesday evening, um we
received a communication from their
[1:09:32] executive director requesting that we
withdraw their presentation from
[1:09:35] tonight's meeting. Um, I made the choice
with staff to keep it on the agenda
[1:09:40] tonight as the council had not uh
received the council northern committee
[1:09:43] had received um this proposal yet and we
thought it was worthwhile to continue to
[1:09:49] present kind of what we had heard, what
we had experienced um and how quite
[1:09:54] frankly we hope we can move forward in
partnership. Um so while no the council
[1:10:00] has no action to take tonight or with
this project overall um we do did
[1:10:07] encourage um the CBOE to engage in in
deep community engagement which was the
[1:10:13] purpose of this initial agenda item and
we hope coming out of this conversation
[1:10:17] tonight that you will support staff to
continue working in partnership with CBO
[1:10:23] CHT our municipal partners the state um
to best serve all of our neighbors in
[1:10:29] South Burlington.
So, a little history about the staff
[1:10:32] conversation related to uh a low barrier
or or any shelter in South Burlington.
[1:10:39] So, in May, uh staff met with CVOE and
uh Champlne Housing Trust, CHT to
[1:10:46] discuss generally the concept of a
shelter in Jenning County. At that
[1:10:50] point, there were many locations being
discussed. Um and we talked about more
[1:10:55] the concept generally than specific
locations. Um as a followup uh we met
[1:11:00] with at CBOE's request met with them on
August 24th a couple weeks ago where
[1:11:04] they laid out these specific plans for
1717 Williston Road. At that meeting uh
[1:11:10] myself, the two public safety chiefs,
the deputy city manager were there and
[1:11:15] reviewed with them some of the concerns
that we laid out in the impact memo
[1:11:19] that's included in your presentation
tonight.
[1:11:22] Um we also recommended that they engage
in deep um community engagement around
[1:11:27] locating um such a shelter in our
community and tonight's conversation was
[1:11:31] to be the start of that community
engagement.
[1:11:34] Um so as we as we state in our impact
memo um the housing crisis in Vermont
[1:11:40] continues to leave our most vulnerable
neighbors behind. Um, however, we're not
[1:11:45] convinced that this 100 bed shelter as
currently proposed um enhances the
[1:11:50] service or options for our most
vulnerable neighbors. Um, however, we
[1:11:54] would certainly we as staff would
certainly appreciate your support to
[1:11:58] continue to discuss other options with
CHT, CBO, our regional municipal
[1:12:04] partners, our service provider partners,
and the state of Vermont. Um so that is
[1:12:09] what we are and we are happy to answer
any questions um you may have of our
[1:12:13] conversations with CBOE
um
[1:12:17] uh but we would love your support to
continue working in partnership with
[1:12:21] them.
Jesse, personally, I think um you and
[1:12:27] your staff have done a really good job
communicating on this. Um and I kind of
[1:12:33] share your perspective as evidenced by
the the questions that you articulated
[1:12:38] um as to the size of facility and the
location of facility. And I hope that we
[1:12:42] can continue um working with CVO to um
ensure that we have facilities that are
[1:12:51] both right sized and also in the in the
right place. And so I I look forward to
[1:12:56] that conversation.
[1:13:01] Elizabeth,
>> I I think speaking for myself, I know I
[1:13:03] had prepared for the presentation, the
conversation tonight, so I was surprised
[1:13:09] to read in the media that um uh the
proposal was being pulled. Um I think
[1:13:16] staff has asked excellent questions. I
know there's probably other questions I
[1:13:21] know council may have and the community
may have. And um I'd welcome the
[1:13:27] opportunity to um continue to support
staff in having conversations. I share
[1:13:32] Andrew's um thoughts around uh you know
location right sizing and I think as we
[1:13:41] discussed earlier this evening really
what a clear understanding of the
[1:13:46] mission whether it's sort of crisis
focused um or as we just finished a
[1:13:51] previous discussion or connecting
individuals to services that really um
[1:13:57] lift individuals out of different
situations whether domestic violence or
[1:14:03] uh drug and alcohol addiction,
homelessness and so forth. Um so Jesse,
[1:14:08] I do support any ongoing conversations.
Um and I I would hope in that process uh
[1:14:16] particularly based on CBOS and CHT's
experiences that they are bringing the
[1:14:23] um responses to what would seem to be
really normal concerns that do affect um
[1:14:31] staffing and budgetary considerations at
a local level. And I feel like this is
[1:14:36] something we all need to know.
>> Thank you, Elizabeth. I agree. 100%. Um,
[1:14:42] this is an interesting proposal and I
think staff has done their due diligence
[1:14:47] as far as they can to ask a lot of
questions because there are implications
[1:14:52] for for our city uh if this were to move
forward and those questions need good
[1:14:58] answers. Um, and I just want to remind
everybody that South Burlington has
[1:15:02] committed itself in the past to
supporting uh a lot of affordable
[1:15:07] housing. Uh to to name just a few, the
two Summit buildings on Kennedy Drive,
[1:15:12] the Odell Apartments on Ferrell Street,
the Garden Street Apartments right here
[1:15:16] on Market Street, the Brayburn Converted
Motel on Willist Road, um also the Hoham
[1:15:22] Motel next to Panera on Shurn Road, as
well as uh the Dorset Commons on Dorset
[1:15:27] Street. So this city definitely supports
uh the construction or redevelopment of
[1:15:33] properties into affordable housing which
should be part of that path where we
[1:15:38] have such a problem with homelessness
that eventually people get residents or
[1:15:42] or get apartments or something in some
kind of living situation that they need.
[1:15:47] So, um, I'd like to see this
conversation continue, um, as long as we
[1:15:53] understand what those implications are
for our services and for the for the
[1:15:58] people use the shelter itself because
they're pretty far from what their
[1:16:02] services are today. So, thank you.
>> Take comments.
[1:16:07] » Any comments from the public? Oh,
anybody on the line?
[1:16:14] I don't see any. All right. All right.
Well, so we'll look forward to hearing
[1:16:18] about this in the future for their
future meetings and Okay, great. Thank
[1:16:22] you, Jesse. Um,
uh, let's go to item 14, which is
[1:16:26] discuss and possibly approve the FY28
budget schedule with Martha Machar, our
[1:16:32] finance director. Come on down.
[1:16:42] » Good evening, Martha.
[1:16:48] Is it that time already again? Didn't we
just do this like six, five months ago?
[1:16:54] » Vote on a schedule.
>> This is the time of year where Martha is
[1:16:57] hardcore living in three fiscal years.
So, she's wrapping up.
[1:17:01] » She's wrapping up FY26, administering
27, and planning for 28 all at the same
[1:17:06] time.
>> Well, that's good because planning is
[1:17:08] what we should be doing at this point,
right?
[1:17:10] » Great time of the year. So before you
was just the beginning of FY28 budget
[1:17:16] process. So it is the outline of the
staff uh process of how to put the
[1:17:23] budget together and when the information
of the budget will be presented to you.
[1:17:28] A lot of information is about the same
as we have done in the past and we have
[1:17:33] I think the last two budget cycle where
we've prepared the working session with
[1:17:39] the council for the budget. This year
we're doing it on a Wednesday, December
[1:17:43] 16. So hopefully that day work for you
all. And um so on the budget schedule, I
[1:17:50] think the next time we come to talk to
you about the budget process, goal
[1:17:54] setting on this schedule, it currently
is September 21st. So we'll change that
[1:18:00] to September 22nd
uh as said earlier by the city manager.
[1:18:06] And I think those are the two highlight
that I wanted to highlight for you. Oh,
[1:18:12] and we are also keeping uh the listening
session for the community. We will do
[1:18:17] the online survey and have an actual
listening session where anyone who want
[1:18:23] to come in or either filled out the
online not filled out the online would
[1:18:28] have the opportunity to come talk to
you.
[1:18:33] One other thing if I can just highlight
um we are proposing um in the past
[1:18:37] couple of years we've done a day budget
meeting with the leadership team and the
[1:18:41] council um and we are proposing December
16th for that. It's a Wednesday for that
[1:18:46] meeting. We planned it around um one of
your schedules. So we're hoping that
[1:18:50] that works for the rest of you if you
are available.
[1:18:54] » Starting at 9. What time? Okay. Will
there be lunch? Oh,
[1:18:59] » and I I don't know if you mentioned
this, Mark, but the um close out and the
[1:19:04] FY28 goal setting is moving to the 22nd.
Correct.
[1:19:08] » That's correct.
>> And did I see in the schedule that is is
[1:19:11] this the first year that everybody will
be using the same software to submit
[1:19:15] their budget proposals or is is that
they used it last year, right?
[1:19:19] » Uh no, it was not used last year. In the
past, we've used a spreadsheet and this
[1:19:23] year is the first year we're using our
new finance software. Okay. And is there
[1:19:28] training involved or needed for that
beforehand or they have they already
[1:19:31] been trained?
>> There have been some training and there
[1:19:34] is going to be a lot of training as this
is the new time first time everybody's
[1:19:39] using the system
>> and and do we think that this will
[1:19:42] improve uh the speed with which people I
mean is it an efficiency improvement to
[1:19:47] use this new software for this purpose?
>> It is a big efficiency problem for the
[1:19:51] departments and for the finance team. So
it's not like a bunch of separate Excel
[1:19:56] spreadsheets that have to be recombined
and
[1:19:59] » Yeah. So to give Martha a huge amount of
credit, our budgets have been accurate
[1:20:03] for the last five years I've been here
based on probably
[1:20:07] I don't know 17 to 27 individual Excel
spreadsheets that are merged together.
[1:20:12] So it is it's not only more time time um
efficient, it's also limiting liability
[1:20:18] of human error of formula glitches,
things like that. It will be it's a huge
[1:20:24] improvement,
>> right?
[1:20:27] Any comments from council? Anybody
online? Anybody in the house?
[1:20:32] » You need a motion for this to
>> approve the schedule? Do
[1:20:35] » I have a motion?
>> I move to approve the fiscal year 28
[1:20:40] budget schedule as presented.
>> I'll second that.
[1:20:44] » We have a motion in a second. Any other
discussion? All those in favor say I. I.
[1:20:48] » I. It is unanimous.
>> Thank you.
[1:20:51] » Thank you, Martha.
[1:20:55] And you've already done 15, right?
>> We have not.
[1:20:58] » No, you did. You did 16. Okay. All
right. Good. So, now we're on to 15,
[1:21:02] which is discuss and possibly approve a
process to develop a 2027 legislative
[1:21:08] agenda with Jesse Baker, city manager.
Nicholas Stley Castro, deputy city
[1:21:12] manager.
>> Um, yes. So, I'm going to give a high
[1:21:14] level overview. Nicholas has been
through a process like this before. Um,
[1:21:18] so he is his fingerprints are all over
this as well. So I'll um give him some
[1:21:22] air time. Um but uh so both in our city
plan, we have a goal of being um a
[1:21:28] collaborative and engaged leader
community and working at this regional
[1:21:32] and statewide level. Additionally, in
your FY27 policies and strategies, we
[1:21:36] talked specifically about taking a more
active role in developing an advocacy
[1:21:40] agenda. So as we approach the beginning
of the bianium um we are recommending a
[1:21:46] um uh process to develop that
legislative agenda in partnership
[1:21:51] between the leadership team and the
council and our state delegation um to
[1:21:55] better ensure that our interests are
aligned and well represented that we are
[1:21:59] making strategic um decisions to
influence um items that might be moving
[1:22:04] through the legislature and providing a
consistent framework. Um, we've laid out
[1:22:10] a process schedule here for you to
consider it consider that would result
[1:22:15] in the council approving um a
legislative agenda in November that gets
[1:22:20] it into our delegation's hands before um
the beginning of December, which is
[1:22:25] really when things are due for bill
writing. Nicholas, do you want to add
[1:22:30] anything
from your experience in this?
[1:22:33] » Um, thank thanks Jesse. I would add that
um noted in the memo but really
[1:22:38] important um the speaking with one voice
in this is really critical at the
[1:22:43] capital. So um highlighted here that the
value of of um coming to agreement on
[1:22:48] what these priorities are so that we can
go and we can be more successful and
[1:22:52] effective if if we are speaking with one
voice. The other thing I would mention
[1:22:56] um as you think about the ideas is more
specific is better. Um I think coming to
[1:23:01] legislators with the the thematic u
priorities is nice but giving them a
[1:23:07] specific solution um is more likely to
be successful and better for us uh in
[1:23:12] the long run. So I think as you think
about the things that you'd like to be
[1:23:16] uh considered in this agenda, the more
specific the more effective
[1:23:22] » and the hope would be to develop the
agenda and then um identify key folks
[1:23:27] who would be kind of the leads on the
strategic request throughout the term.
[1:23:31] So we could use our advocacy partners to
help build track but also know who to
[1:23:38] tap in because those requests usually
come very quickly. um and be ready and
[1:23:42] nimble for those responses.
[1:23:46] » And we we've discussed before, I think,
how um you having a real deputy city
[1:23:52] manager full-time now kind of frees you
up a little bit to pursue some of those
[1:23:56] those state uh initiatives, right? Where
we would like to have more u influence,
[1:24:04] right, in peer. So that's a good thing.
>> It's a good thing. I I Steve was a real
[1:24:10] deputy.
>> He was he was h I mean he was also the
[1:24:13] fire chief. I mean it's it's tough to do
you know
[1:24:15] » we have a full-time Nicholas who is
great and brings a lot of very specific
[1:24:20] city manager expertise to the table. So
we have a we have more capacity to be
[1:24:23] able to do this. We also have a very
strong across the board leadership team
[1:24:27] who are often in the legislature
testifying. So to be more transparent
[1:24:32] with all of you about what they're
working on and give them more guidance
[1:24:35] of you know how we can leverage the
unique voice that the five of you do
[1:24:39] have at the legisle. I think we we
really have a moment of opportunity to
[1:24:42] be a lot more strategic.
>> There you go.
[1:24:46] » Um I noted on here sort of now to
midocctober is solicit advocacy ideas
[1:24:51] from both leadership team and individual
city councils. Do you how do you want to
[1:24:56] do that? Is it the way we do priorities
and policies or one-on-one meetings,
[1:25:02] something like that?
>> Um, I think we're flexible about how you
[1:25:06] would like to share that information.
>> I think Nicholas, to your point, I think
[1:25:12] the specificity is I I'll speak for
myself. I will would like some support
[1:25:19] on the specificity side of it.
[1:25:24] » Any comments, Andrew?
I love this.
[1:25:27] » There you go. There you go.
>> Highly anticipated.
[1:25:30] » No action needed. Just advice.
>> Well, so if if you are on board with
[1:25:34] this approach, what I would recommend is
you um generally kind of motion to
[1:25:38] support this approach. I also um it is
our interest to have an initial meeting
[1:25:44] with the delegation um early in this
process so we can make sure we're giving
[1:25:48] them something that will be useful down
the road. And I think it would be worth
[1:25:52] having two counselors participate in
that delegation meeting. Um, councelor
[1:25:56] Sigman did email us today or sometime in
the last few days um, indicating that
[1:26:01] she would like to be one of those two
counselors, but it is up to you.
[1:26:04] However, I think if with your approval,
we will start trying to schedule that
[1:26:09] meeting
>> um,
[1:26:11] » after November 3rd.
>> No, no, no. This would be a meeting like
[1:26:14] in early in September, early October.
So, we can we can craft something that's
[1:26:19] that they're going to be
>> not not with the legislators though.
[1:26:22] Yeah,
>> that would be after.
[1:26:23] » Well, both. That would be Yeah.
>> I'd love to do it.
[1:26:29] » I'd like to do it, too, but you know.
>> So, how many people who you you who who
[1:26:33] else
>> you you did you expressed interest,
[1:26:36] right?
>> Well, I I think there's going to be a
[1:26:39] lot of interest because there's been
interest on the full council and I note
[1:26:42] that House Representative Maner is
online, too. So,
[1:26:46] » look at that.
>> Yeah. Thank you for listening, Brian. Um
[1:26:51] I I think if we're talking about a
preliminary meeting with House or with
[1:26:55] our representatives and are Oh, sorry.
Um I think if you're talking about a
[1:26:59] preliminary meeting with um
representatives and then bringing it
[1:27:03] back or having opportunities for full
counsel to provide guidance, that's that
[1:27:09] would be appropriate.
>> Sounds good.
[1:27:16] » So, let us do it and bring back what
we're hearing. Is that what you're
[1:27:21] » I think it's okay to have
representation. Um
[1:27:24] » yeah, it I just don't think it can
completely guide an agenda because there
[1:27:30] may be other things that Tim's
interested in that Lori's interested in
[1:27:33] myself that somehow need all of us need
to have that input.
[1:27:37] » Otherwise, we'll have to do another half
day of legislative priorities and and
[1:27:41] » we're going to be specific, strategic,
and brief.
[1:27:44] » Oh, there you go. Brief. Okay. Yeah.
More red dots.
[1:27:48] green dots. So, well, you need a motion
then.
[1:27:53] » I would. Yes.
>> You want to create a motion?
[1:27:58] » Yeah. I will make a motion to approve
the legislative adequacity process as
[1:28:02] proposed.
>> Do you maybe want to ask if others have
[1:28:07] comments?
>> Anybody in the room have a comment? Oh,
[1:28:11] here comes somebody down. We have a
commenter.
[1:28:15] This is my my my co-sailor today.
>> Um I I would just remind you that there
[1:28:23] is an election on November 3rd and your
three senators all have um competition
[1:28:32] and um at least one of the five sitting
house members do. So to figure out how
[1:28:40] to have
meetings without perhaps
[1:28:46] um putting the impression forward that
the council
[1:28:51] only supports certain people.
Caution. Caution.
[1:28:57] » That's why I kept saying November 3rd.
[1:29:03] So I think that you know that that is a
a
[1:29:07] um in our statewide legislative
process that that happens every two
[1:29:12] years at the beginning of a bianium. So
agreed and um we could also frame it
[1:29:18] from the context of this you know these
are elected officials who have history
[1:29:21] in our community whether they are future
Nicholas. Yeah, and I would just uh to
[1:29:26] that point, we we were cognizant of it.
The the September timeline task talks
[1:29:32] about meeting with the current
delegation. So, we we acknowledge that
[1:29:36] there's an election that that could
change that, but I think talking with
[1:29:39] the current delegation also is
informative because they have they have
[1:29:42] a history in the building and u and and
familiarity with the issues. Um but we
[1:29:46] we acknowledge that that the meeting
with the current delegation could become
[1:29:49] a different meeting after November 3rd.
Good.
[1:29:55] So, we had a motion, but do we have a
second?
[1:29:57] » Second.
>> Okay. So, any other discussion? All
[1:30:01] those in favor say I.
>> I.
[1:30:02] » I. It is unanimous. Thank you very much.
>> So, would you like to tell me who to
[1:30:08] include in that initial scheduling or
would you like me to try and find times
[1:30:12] that meet for as many people as possible
and by by that process identify the two
[1:30:17] that will come forward?
>> Yeah. Thank
[1:30:21] good.
Jesse to schedule
[1:30:24] » survey monkey.
>> All right. So that was uh item 15. Now
[1:30:31] we are at item 18 correct which is
review the significant agenda topics for
[1:30:37] the council September 21st 2026 council
meeting.
[1:30:44] Um so scrolling down. Uh so 22nd meeting
will include the East Harris residents
[1:30:54] um presenting their concerns to you. Um
you'll also receive the FY26 year end
[1:31:00] projections as we close out that fiscal
year and kick off the FY28 budget
[1:31:05] process. Um in that you will receive the
projections from us and establish goals
[1:31:10] for your FY28 budget. Um the FY27
policies and strategies report is since
[1:31:16] this was published moving to the uh next
meeting October 5th. So that will not be
[1:31:20] on your September 2nd 22nd meeting.
>> And let me just correct myself on item
[1:31:25] 18 that council meeting would be
September 22nd.
[1:31:28] » Yes.
>> Okay. So just that we're all
[1:31:30] » Jesse for item one. I guess what I was
hoping um in addition because we have
[1:31:34] heard from them is that
um our staff would describe to the
[1:31:41] residents the the process and then help
the residents understand how the
[1:31:47] concerns that they're raising are
evaluated through that process
[1:31:52] and then maybe you also address you know
if there are potential
[1:31:58] updates to the process you know I mean
the process may not be Maybe maybe
[1:32:02] right. Um and then I also would hope
that then we the council would explain
[1:32:06] to the residents kind of our role right
in really setting the the policy but not
[1:32:14] hands-on with with implementation for
every street in the city.
[1:32:19] » Yes, I think that was our intention to
provide kind of our you know staff have
[1:32:24] spent a fair amount of time on East
Terrace to date um both public safety
[1:32:27] and public works. Um, so talk about what
we've done to date and where we might go
[1:32:30] in the future.
>> Thanks.
[1:32:35] Anything else on that though?
>> Nope.
[1:32:36] » Okay, moving on to item 19, which is
other business. Is there any other
[1:32:42] business tonight? Um, I do have two
items that um I I don't know if they've
[1:32:48] actually come up in previous meetings,
but I would like council to consider
[1:32:52] adding to future agendas and would uh
obviously like the full council
[1:32:57] available. Um but one I had sent a note
out um as I was not able to attend the
[1:33:02] last meeting about um kind of a
discussion of process improvement
[1:33:08] opportunities for kind of high value
high visibility projects like Bartlett
[1:33:13] Bay potentially the bike pred bed the
bike ped bridge and the tip district um
[1:33:20] and having a discussion about um really
looking at um
[1:33:28] an like an afteraction report. It it may
have elements to it that are different,
[1:33:32] but some of it's afteraction, some of it
is understanding cost and scope
[1:33:37] reconciliation.
Um and some of it might segregate um
[1:33:43] unforeseeable from unanticipated
um expenses associated with projects.
[1:33:48] that it it and this is really separate
of the budget but kind of it might
[1:33:54] impact policy discussion on capital
project funding, cost control and
[1:33:58] transparency. So that's a general topic.
I think there may be other counselors
[1:34:03] interested in discussing or having the
opportunity to discuss and those are
[1:34:08] three high visibility projects that um
might fit the bill for monitoring those
[1:34:14] in some way. Um, and then the other area
is really around I don't I wouldn't call
[1:34:20] it necessarily standardized
communication, but I I have run into
[1:34:24] situations over the past particularly
maybe over the past six months that um
[1:34:30] there does not seem to be a either a
standard or an expected way to respond
[1:34:36] to largely to residents that send notes
to the full council and how they get
[1:34:42] responded to. um even if it's simply a
we are in receipt of your message and
[1:34:47] have forwarded it to a st staff member
something but it might include um media
[1:34:53] requests as well but just something
around communication expectations
[1:34:58] um because I do feel like there are gaps
that some people get responses and some
[1:35:03] don't and some might get them in a
timely manner and some might not and I
[1:35:09] don't think we even know necessarily
who's responded from council to
[1:35:14] individuals because it would violate
meeting law if we start to have a
[1:35:18] conversation online. Um, but those would
be two topics that might be helpful at
[1:35:23] some point to have on a future agenda.
>> Thanks, Elizabeth.
[1:35:29] Um,
>> do I do I need to I I don't know with a
[1:35:32] small group, do I need to make that
motion or c could we bring those forward
[1:35:36] and have a discussion where we are full
a full counsel?
[1:35:39] » So, you got two suggestions. One is on
>> kind of communication expectations
[1:35:43] » monitoring for large highv value
projects or process.
[1:35:46] » It's afteraction and monitoring of high
value high visibility projects capital
[1:35:51] projects.
>> So like a city reporting you know agenda
[1:35:55] item on high value projects to
>> I think it's I'm really proposing
[1:36:00] » have that discussion to talk about what
what you want to have. Okay. Yeah. Um
[1:36:06] and then the other one was
expectations on on how the council
[1:36:10] replies to full council email, you know,
get from residents or from whomever.
[1:36:15] Right.
>> Yes.
[1:36:16] » Yeah. That's sometimes that's hit or
miss, right? Some one of us reply, but
[1:36:20] we won't reply all and you don't know if
the other person's replied at all and
[1:36:23] sometimes Jesse just jumps right in and
then fixes the whole thing. Right.
[1:36:28] » True. That is true.
>> So, but yeah. So, yeah. The second one I
[1:36:33] I mean I guess I support both. It would
be I don't know how we should have a
[1:36:37] discussion about what do you want to
report on
[1:36:39] » and then how how do we you know
>> and that's where I think the we benefit
[1:36:43] from the full council
>> full council.
[1:36:47] » Anything Andrew
I don't have any other business. Um item
[1:36:53] 20 is consider entering an executive
session pursuant to 1BSA 313 A3 for the
[1:36:58] purposes of discussing appointments of
the development review board. We only
[1:37:00] heard from one candidate. We haven't
heard from the other candidate. Should
[1:37:03] we wait to try and reschedule that
before we were to go into executive
[1:37:06] session?
>> Okay.
[1:37:08] » I I really want to hear from the other
candidate. Is that okay?
[1:37:13] » Well, unusual. They didn't show up.
Who knows? We should find out why. Maybe
[1:37:18] there's a reason why. Maybe they were
stuck on a boat in the middle of the
[1:37:20] lake and they their phone ran out.
>> Okay,
[1:37:24] that's all I know for now. So, but other
do um and we when are are applications
[1:37:31] closed at this point? Are they still
they're fully closed? Yeah.
[1:37:35] I I asked several people I know
especially through colleagues at work
[1:37:38] that live in South B. I just like
grabbed them. I said, "Please, please
[1:37:42] find me a DRBs person." And they're
like, "I don't want to do it." You know,
[1:37:46] like I described to them in length how
great it is. And they still said they
[1:37:50] didn't want to do it. I don't know why.
So,
[1:37:55] » so do you want to do executive session
on the 22nd?
[1:37:59] » Yeah.
As long as we have at least another
[1:38:02] candidate or one way or the other. I
>> I think I'd say if the candidate has a
[1:38:06] really good excuse, but if the person
just didn't show up, right,
[1:38:09] » I don't think we should consider him or
her.
[1:38:12] » Yeah,
>> that's because I mean that would be
[1:38:15] Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[1:38:16] » Would you be able to find out? Okay.
>> Great.
[1:38:20] Yeah.
>> Okay.
[1:38:22] Um item 21 which is adjourn.
>> Motion to adjurnn.
[1:38:27] » Second.
>> All those in favor say I.
[1:38:29] » I.
>> All right. We are journ. Thank you very
[1:38:31] much. Thanks everybody online for
attending. We'll see you on the 22nd,
[1:38:35] not the 21st. It's a day later. Thanks.
[1:38:57] Hey, hey, hey.