1
00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:05,767
Welcome. The September 23rd, 2026 meeting of the South Portland Planning Board

2
00:00:06,233 --> 00:00:10,166
will come to order. This is a public proceeding, and unless the board votes to go

3
00:00:10,233 --> 00:00:12,066
into executive session, you have

4
00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,033
the right to hear everything that's being said and to view all the exhibits that

5
00:00:21,066 --> 00:00:24,700
are offered. This meeting is being conducted remotely and in person in accordance

6
00:00:24,734 --> 00:00:28,900
with 1 MRS Section 403B and the city's remote and hybrid meeting policy.

7
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,367
The board works from a prepared agenda.

8
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,400
It's been posted in City Hall, on the city's website, and on the city's online

9
00:00:36,700 --> 00:00:38,033
agenda portal, BoardDocs.

10
00:00:39,567 --> 00:00:44,900
The planning board members will disclose any potential conflicts of interest

11
00:00:45,567 --> 00:00:49,200
of which they are aware at the time that an item is being considered and before any

12
00:00:49,266 --> 00:00:54,266
testimony on the item. For each item, staff will provide an overview followed by

13
00:00:54,333 --> 00:00:57,934
applicant remarks for up to 10 minutes, then public comment will proceed.

14
00:00:58,533 --> 00:01:01,800
Any person wishing to testify may do so during the public comment.

15
00:01:02,533 --> 00:01:07,100
If you wish to speak remotely, use the hand-raising feature to be called on by the

16
00:01:07,166 --> 00:01:12,533
chair. If you're here in the chamber, simply raise your hand and be called on.

17
00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,400
When speaking, state your name and address and then proceed.

18
00:01:15,634 --> 00:01:18,200
Public testimony is limited to three minutes per speaker.

19
00:01:19,367 --> 00:01:22,867
Planning board decisions are based on whether an applicant has met their burden of

20
00:01:22,934 --> 00:01:27,266
proof to demonstrate that the project is in compliance with applicable laws.

21
00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:31,433
Any reconsiderations of board decisions must be made at the next regularly

22
00:01:31,467 --> 00:01:32,300
scheduled meeting,

23
00:01:33,567 --> 00:01:38,033
and any appeals of the board's decisions must be filed within 30 days to the Maine

24
00:01:38,133 --> 00:01:39,600
Superior Court.

25
00:01:41,133 --> 00:01:43,500
All right, with that said, we'll kick the meeting off with the Pledge of

26
00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:44,700
Allegiance. Please join me.

27
00:01:46,300 --> 00:01:50,767
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic

28
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,533
for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice

29
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:56,133
for all.

30
00:02:00,900 --> 00:02:03,800
That brings us to roll call. Director Nemedi will call the roll.

31
00:02:04,066 --> 00:02:05,433
Yes. Mr. Bramble?

32
00:02:07,433 --> 00:02:10,367
I am here. All right. Chair Kelly?

33
00:02:10,433 --> 00:02:10,867
Here.

34
00:02:10,967 --> 00:02:11,500
Mr. Ladd?

35
00:02:11,767 --> 00:02:12,033
Here.

36
00:02:12,266 --> 00:02:12,867
Mr. McDonald?

37
00:02:13,066 --> 00:02:13,266
Here.

38
00:02:13,467 --> 00:02:15,266
And Mr. Taylor? Here.

39
00:02:16,834 --> 00:02:19,233
All right. We have five,

40
00:02:20,567 --> 00:02:23,266
and that is quorum, so we will proceed

41
00:02:25,133 --> 00:02:27,667
with approval of the minutes from our August 12th meeting.

42
00:02:29,100 --> 00:02:31,433
Questions, comments, clarifications on the minutes?

43
00:02:34,667 --> 00:02:35,934
Move to approve the minutes.

44
00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:36,934
Second.

45
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,800
Motion by Mr. McDonald, seconded by Mr.

46
00:02:41,867 --> 00:02:43,700
Ladd. Any discussion?

47
00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,000
Great. Can we get a roll call vote?

48
00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:52,533
Mr. Bramble? Yes. Chair Kelly?

49
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:52,834
Yes.

50
00:02:53,433 --> 00:02:54,066
Mr. Ladd?

51
00:02:54,233 --> 00:02:54,467
Yes.

52
00:02:54,634 --> 00:02:55,233
Mr. McDonald?

53
00:02:55,467 --> 00:02:55,667
Yes.

54
00:02:56,100 --> 00:02:56,667
And Mr. Taylor?

55
00:02:58,567 --> 00:02:58,834
Yes.

56
00:02:59,767 --> 00:03:04,500
All right. By a vote of five the motion passes, the minutes are approved.

57
00:03:05,967 --> 00:03:06,700
We will proceed.

58
00:03:09,033 --> 00:03:11,834
There are a whole bunch of communications and petitions.

59
00:03:12,133 --> 00:03:15,133
There are reports out of the minute exchange

60
00:03:16,767 --> 00:03:20,900
requests that were approved and performance guarantee releases,

61
00:03:22,100 --> 00:03:23,133
no actions required.

62
00:03:25,567 --> 00:03:27,867
And so that takes us to our consent calendar.

63
00:03:27,934 --> 00:03:30,166
There are three items on the consent calendar tonight.

64
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:36,000
We have item 3A, minor amendment at 33 Ram, Inc., Cobblestone Coffee, 200 Gorham

65
00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:36,400
Road,

66
00:03:38,300 --> 00:03:42,367
concerning an occupancy increase, accessory structure, utility work, parking

67
00:03:42,433 --> 00:03:44,400
reduction, and relocation of dumpsters.

68
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:50,767
We have item 3B, a minor amendment, Landry Circle Senior Housing 2 LLP,

69
00:03:51,300 --> 00:03:54,066
Landry Woods, 100 Adam Cork,

70
00:03:55,333 --> 00:03:58,467
formerly 51 Landry, tree modifications.

71
00:03:59,367 --> 00:04:03,100
And then we have item 3C, planning board regulations.

72
00:04:03,133 --> 00:04:08,200
This is an amendment to regulation number four, specifically application forms to

73
00:04:08,266 --> 00:04:09,800
modernize the forms.

74
00:04:11,433 --> 00:04:16,767
All right, before we proceed, does any member of the planning board have a conflict

75
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,600
of interest to disclose?

76
00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:21,967
All right.

77
00:04:23,233 --> 00:04:27,367
Does any member of the planning board wish to take one of these items out of the

78
00:04:27,433 --> 00:04:29,634
consent calendar and treat it as a public hearing item?

79
00:04:32,500 --> 00:04:33,200
Mr. McDonald.

80
00:04:33,333 --> 00:04:36,233
I don't necessarily need to take it out of the consent calendar, but you mentioned

81
00:04:36,233 --> 00:04:37,734
that you would like to review some of this stuff.

82
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,166
I would think that's a good use of time. We have a pretty light agenda.

83
00:04:41,333 --> 00:04:45,834
I'd like to see what's in there. If you would, Chair. That's your call, of course.

84
00:04:47,467 --> 00:04:47,934
Sure.

85
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,266
Director Nemedi, would you like to give an overview of,

86
00:04:54,433 --> 00:04:58,634
I guess, the items on the consent calendar, and I think specifically Mr.

87
00:04:58,734 --> 00:05:03,100
McDonald's talking about item, the amendment to the regulation number four?

88
00:05:04,133 --> 00:05:05,634
Sure. Is that fair just to do the forms?

89
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:06,000
Yeah.

90
00:05:06,033 --> 00:05:10,734
Okay. I appreciate that. I know the email came late in time for the packet

91
00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:15,767
deadlines, but still it came today, so just want to make sure everybody had a

92
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:21,467
chance to put their eyes on it. The planning division uses forms to

93
00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:24,567
process applications that this planning board has to approve.

94
00:05:24,967 --> 00:05:26,200
You have regulation

95
00:05:27,500 --> 00:05:31,266
number four, which lists all of the official forms that have to be submitted when

96
00:05:31,333 --> 00:05:32,433
someone's applying for something.

97
00:05:33,533 --> 00:05:37,967
A little while back, you did an update to that list to adopt what we call the

98
00:05:38,100 --> 00:05:43,767
universal application form. And that has basically allowed us to centralize all

99
00:05:43,867 --> 00:05:44,100
the

100
00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:49,033
applicant information that we have just historically asked for repeatedly, things

101
00:05:49,066 --> 00:05:52,734
like application names and contact information and so on.

102
00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,567
The universal application is something everyone has to submit no matter what you

103
00:05:57,634 --> 00:06:03,100
ask for. What the next stage is, is to take individual requests and have updated

104
00:06:03,166 --> 00:06:04,967
application forms for those requests.

105
00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:09,700
So in this case tonight, we have the new modern version of the site plan, which is

106
00:06:09,767 --> 00:06:13,967
the most frequent thing you process and also the most complex thing that you

107
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:14,500
process.

108
00:06:15,767 --> 00:06:18,433
And what we're doing here is a two-stage thing.

109
00:06:19,266 --> 00:06:24,700
First is the universal app, which gets core information about the applicant, and

110
00:06:24,767 --> 00:06:28,400
then we have what we're calling the site plan checklist.

111
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:34,934
Our goal with this is that we can get these documents to be more readable, usable,

112
00:06:35,300 --> 00:06:39,867
and functional for applicants, so all the information is up there in front of them.

113
00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,767
That way, when they submit the information, they're more likely to be submitting a

114
00:06:43,767 --> 00:06:46,533
complete application, and they go through the process faster.

115
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,367
So the checklist is a way of cataloging all the things we routinely ask for,

116
00:06:51,500 --> 00:06:55,533
including the things that our old forms never really asked for, but we always have

117
00:06:55,567 --> 00:06:57,266
to follow up and say, "Hey, you forgot this.

118
00:06:57,300 --> 00:06:58,967
Hey, you need to add more detail to that."

119
00:07:00,333 --> 00:07:02,500
So the checklist now is structured in two parts.

120
00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:06,166
Part one is everybody has to fill this out. These are the exhibits.

121
00:07:06,567 --> 00:07:10,400
This is things that you're all familiar with. We're not inventing new requirements.

122
00:07:10,467 --> 00:07:14,400
We're just reformatting. Third-party approvals. You have to have your DEP approval.

123
00:07:14,467 --> 00:07:17,266
You have to give us a traffic plan. You have to give us a landscaping plan.

124
00:07:17,900 --> 00:07:20,266
Everyone has to do that if they're submitting a site plan.

125
00:07:20,834 --> 00:07:25,667
Obviously, if the site plan scope is just interior retrofitting of a warehouse into

126
00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:29,667
residential, there's no landscaping work, we exempt the things that don't apply,

127
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:35,767
but this is the sort of total list. And then certain unique projects may also have

128
00:07:35,867 --> 00:07:38,667
other additional standards, and these are as applicable.

129
00:07:38,767 --> 00:07:42,734
So are you doing a farmer's market? Well, you've got to address those components.

130
00:07:42,900 --> 00:07:44,900
Are you doing coastal resilience overlay zoning?

131
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,066
You've got to address those components. So some things have specific standards.

132
00:07:49,166 --> 00:07:51,600
They're all itemized here, and this all matches our

133
00:07:52,900 --> 00:07:57,033
ordinance. The way the checklist works is just like a checklist.

134
00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,200
The applicant's supposed to be able to go through here and say, "Yep, I've got all

135
00:08:00,233 --> 00:08:03,634
this stuff in hand. I've done the universal application. I've paid my fees.

136
00:08:04,100 --> 00:08:07,700
I've submitted a project data sheet that explains my project." You'll see that in a

137
00:08:07,734 --> 00:08:08,000
second.

138
00:08:09,333 --> 00:08:12,533
With each of these exhibits, we used to just say, "Provide an introduction and

139
00:08:12,567 --> 00:08:16,033
overview cover letter and describe the extent of your project." Well, what are we

140
00:08:16,133 --> 00:08:18,834
actually looking for? We now have a little bit more definition.

141
00:08:18,900 --> 00:08:22,767
What's the intent and the scope? Site conditions, natural resource impacted.

142
00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:26,934
What's your financial capacity? We've updated what we accept as reasonable

143
00:08:27,133 --> 00:08:28,734
demonstration of financial capacity.

144
00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,934
Again, all these things are what you've always had and what you always see once

145
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,500
staff has vetted a project, but now we're trying to put it up front so staff

146
00:08:38,533 --> 00:08:42,033
doesn't have to chase it and applicants are more aware, and they have a more

147
00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:45,000
functional list to work from. So it just goes down the line.

148
00:08:45,133 --> 00:08:49,066
Your plans, it talks about the format of the plans, the scaling of the plans, the

149
00:08:49,133 --> 00:08:52,433
details we expect to see in the plans, that all of it's corroborated.

150
00:08:52,834 --> 00:08:56,667
When you say you're 10 feet from the setback, do your plans actually show that?

151
00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,767
Do you put a date on the revision of those plans so we know the plans coming to the

152
00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,467
board are accurate and up to date?

153
00:09:05,834 --> 00:09:09,734
It gives specifics on what we expect to see in those site plans so that applicants

154
00:09:09,767 --> 00:09:12,934
don't miss anything, and these are all the necessary components so that we can

155
00:09:12,967 --> 00:09:15,934
evaluate the project. And it goes down thematically.

156
00:09:16,033 --> 00:09:19,600
So there's your site plan, there's utility sheets, stormwater sheets,

157
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,367
access and parking circulation plans, landscape plans.

158
00:09:23,467 --> 00:09:25,500
Again, the goal is these are checkboxes.

159
00:09:25,667 --> 00:09:29,834
Applicants can go through, verify they've met all this, or confirm that it's not

160
00:09:29,867 --> 00:09:33,333
applicable to their project, and they can move forward more rapidly.

161
00:09:34,266 --> 00:09:40,066
This is supported by the data sheet, which is just the quick numbers that are

162
00:09:40,133 --> 00:09:42,333
critical for us to evaluate a project.

163
00:09:44,166 --> 00:09:46,667
Again, this is all stuff that's asked for in the form.

164
00:09:47,033 --> 00:09:50,367
It's just organized better, and it's more comprehensive.

165
00:09:50,834 --> 00:09:52,767
So we've always asked for how much floor area.

166
00:09:53,066 --> 00:09:56,567
Now you get to put it in neat numbers, and we don't have to scan through a jumbled

167
00:09:56,634 --> 00:09:59,667
page to find it. How many structures are you doing?

168
00:09:59,734 --> 00:10:02,367
It gives you an opportunity to respond to more than just one.

169
00:10:03,433 --> 00:10:07,033
Give us the specific metrics for your setback so we can see it plain as day.

170
00:10:07,767 --> 00:10:12,767
And then with this, again, all this should be really familiar if you compare it to

171
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,133
our current application form. But what's missing in the current form, since it was

172
00:10:17,166 --> 00:10:20,867
back from the early 2000s, is updated information.

173
00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:25,000
Like now we have a new EV ordinance, and we have specific different categories.

174
00:10:25,033 --> 00:10:25,934
Is it EV-ready?

175
00:10:27,133 --> 00:10:29,800
And there's links. Like in this case, what does EV-ready mean?

176
00:10:29,900 --> 00:10:32,867
And it takes you to the ordinance, and you can go ahead and dig right into it.

177
00:10:33,533 --> 00:10:34,700
One thing I will just add,

178
00:10:37,066 --> 00:10:39,834
we will be hyperlinking more of

179
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,066
the text in this document so that people can jump to the specific section of the

180
00:10:46,133 --> 00:10:48,200
ordinance, which doesn't really appear in this form.

181
00:10:48,233 --> 00:10:52,200
It's just going to be, I've given you a few examples, like what is dual frontage?

182
00:10:52,266 --> 00:10:55,433
You'll be able to jump to this specific section, read about it immediately, that

183
00:10:55,467 --> 00:10:56,634
way you can answer it faster.

184
00:10:58,533 --> 00:11:01,967
So any of this kind of blue text, plus anything else that makes sense for us to

185
00:11:02,033 --> 00:11:05,300
reference, we will do that so people can get the information they need.

186
00:11:05,367 --> 00:11:08,200
So parking reserve, not many people are familiar with that.

187
00:11:08,266 --> 00:11:11,667
We gave a specific citation. You'll be able to read it directly in the ordinance.

188
00:11:12,333 --> 00:11:16,800
So this will be hopefully a better tool, a more easily readable tool, a form

189
00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:22,734
fillable tool that just gets applicants more comprehensive, more complete, and

190
00:11:22,834 --> 00:11:27,467
faster through the process. We have, again, as I mentioned before the meeting, so

191
00:11:27,533 --> 00:11:30,700
the protected trees is a relatively new thing. We're just itemizing.

192
00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:33,467
Again, if it's not relevant to the project, they ignore it.

193
00:11:35,266 --> 00:11:39,367
Wetlands, explaining what you're doing with wetlands in just numerical fashion, so

194
00:11:39,433 --> 00:11:42,433
we can quickly compare and contrast and evaluate the project.

195
00:11:43,333 --> 00:11:46,066
So not really anything new of substance.

196
00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:48,634
We're not asking people to do anything we haven't asked normally.

197
00:11:49,367 --> 00:11:50,767
It's just how we're representing it.

198
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,800
And I can show you,

199
00:11:56,333 --> 00:11:58,700
I know the board sees this regularly,

200
00:12:01,533 --> 00:12:02,934
but members of the public might not,

201
00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:06,467
what our current application form looks like.

202
00:12:08,467 --> 00:12:11,133
And you'll maybe get a sense of why we're doing this.

203
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,200
So here's the current site plan app.

204
00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:20,400
It's got stale information about costs for things that don't match up with our

205
00:12:20,467 --> 00:12:21,433
current fee schedule.

206
00:12:23,166 --> 00:12:25,433
It's sort of jumbled up and disorganized.

207
00:12:25,667 --> 00:12:31,166
The facts that it asks for is like you're looking at property information, then

208
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,500
you're looking at zoning. Suddenly you're into floor area, then you're back to land

209
00:12:35,567 --> 00:12:39,934
uses, then you're getting back into numbers, and then you've got this long list of

210
00:12:39,967 --> 00:12:44,200
exhibits with stale information we don't use. We don't ask for some of this data.

211
00:12:44,266 --> 00:12:48,834
This is an older reference map. It's doing a lot of this cleanup to get it out of

212
00:12:48,867 --> 00:12:52,934
there. Right, title, and interest information doesn't really clarify what we know

213
00:12:52,967 --> 00:12:55,900
constitutes right, title, interest, so we give them more information about it.

214
00:12:57,166 --> 00:13:00,567
Some of the financial capacity thing, it takes up an entire page when really it's

215
00:13:00,667 --> 00:13:04,500
just a quick... The four of these things on this list are actually functional and

216
00:13:04,533 --> 00:13:05,834
what we continue to use today,

217
00:13:07,367 --> 00:13:11,567
and so on. So it's really just condensing, in this case, what's a 14-page document

218
00:13:12,033 --> 00:13:14,266
into a couple of quick, punchy forms.

219
00:13:14,634 --> 00:13:20,333
This gives us all the facts in two pages, and the actual

220
00:13:20,433 --> 00:13:25,233
exhibit listing gives applicants more information, again, in eight pages.

221
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,734
So a lot of trimming down, cleaning up, making it easier.

222
00:13:29,834 --> 00:13:29,967
So

223
00:13:31,433 --> 00:13:33,066
that's what's in your packet for

224
00:13:35,567 --> 00:13:39,400
this consent item. And again, happy to dive into any of them if you want.

225
00:13:39,667 --> 00:13:41,867
We would have to have motion to take it off the consent.

226
00:13:43,467 --> 00:13:45,400
Great. Thank you.

227
00:13:48,634 --> 00:13:50,233
Okay, we'll go back to the planning board.

228
00:13:50,266 --> 00:13:53,033
Does any member of the planning board wish to take any of these items off the

229
00:13:53,066 --> 00:13:55,133
consent calendar and treat them as a public hearing item?

230
00:13:57,166 --> 00:13:57,166
No.

231
00:13:57,233 --> 00:13:59,867
All right. Did we get a motion on the consent calendar?

232
00:14:02,734 --> 00:14:05,600
Move to approve the consent calendar as presented.

233
00:14:06,166 --> 00:14:06,767
I'll second.

234
00:14:08,333 --> 00:14:11,934
All right. Motion by Mr. McDonald, seconded by Mr. Ladd. Discussion?

235
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,100
We get a roll call vote.

236
00:14:16,667 --> 00:14:17,400
Mr. Bramble?

237
00:14:19,033 --> 00:14:19,433
Yes.

238
00:14:19,967 --> 00:14:20,567
Mr. Kelly?

239
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:20,834
Yes.

240
00:14:21,033 --> 00:14:21,700
Mr. Ladd?

241
00:14:21,767 --> 00:14:22,033
Yes.

242
00:14:22,166 --> 00:14:22,867
Mr. McDonald?

243
00:14:22,934 --> 00:14:23,300
Yes.

244
00:14:23,367 --> 00:14:24,200
And Mr. Taylor?

245
00:14:24,967 --> 00:14:25,266
Yes.

246
00:14:26,233 --> 00:14:28,934
All right. By a vote of 5-0, the motion passes.

247
00:14:30,367 --> 00:14:31,634
Consent calendar is approved.

248
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,333
All right. That brings us to our first

249
00:14:36,934 --> 00:14:38,333
public hearing item on the agenda.

250
00:14:38,433 --> 00:14:44,066
That's item 4A, zoning text amendment, Elvett Sciences, amend building coverage

251
00:14:44,133 --> 00:14:49,767
allowance in the light industrial zoning district, properties at 200 John Roberts

252
00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:50,867
Road, specifically.

253
00:14:53,066 --> 00:14:55,700
Before we kick it off, does any member of the planning board have a conflict to

254
00:14:55,734 --> 00:14:56,233
disclose?

255
00:14:58,166 --> 00:14:58,333
No.

256
00:14:58,700 --> 00:15:00,834
No. All right. Marin?

257
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,300
Thank you. Marin Stevens, community planner.

258
00:15:05,533 --> 00:15:07,667
Is there something I need to do to get it on this one?

259
00:15:07,667 --> 00:15:09,867
You just push and hold, and then it'll take over.

260
00:15:10,166 --> 00:15:10,400
Okay.

261
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,166
There we go. Great. Again, Marin Stevens, community planner.

262
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,667
Today we have a zoning text amendment from Elvett Sciences.

263
00:15:23,433 --> 00:15:29,333
They're seeking to amend Section 27-904 for the light industrial, which we refer

264
00:15:29,367 --> 00:15:34,634
to as the IL zoning district, to change the building coverage from 30% to 40%.

265
00:15:35,867 --> 00:15:41,734
You will see on the left-hand side, the subject property is circled, and

266
00:15:41,867 --> 00:15:47,567
the purple on the map are the light industrial zoning districts for the city,

267
00:15:48,433 --> 00:15:50,634
which all exist on the west end of town.

268
00:15:52,467 --> 00:15:56,967
So, just as a refresher for zoning text amendments, first they come before the

269
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,667
planning board, which is tonight.

270
00:15:59,133 --> 00:16:05,000
If approved, or you guys can recommend approval, then it goes to

271
00:16:05,066 --> 00:16:08,867
city council, and they'll hold two public hearings, a first read and a second read.

272
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,533
If it's eventually approved by city council, the ordinance takes effect after 20

273
00:16:13,634 --> 00:16:15,500
days for an appeal period.

274
00:16:17,266 --> 00:16:22,934
So the proposed amendment is to add an accessory structure to an

275
00:16:22,967 --> 00:16:28,767
existing property at 200 John Roberts

276
00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:33,133
Road, again, which exists within the IL zoning district.

277
00:16:33,767 --> 00:16:38,667
The existing building is 27,040 square feet.

278
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,867
So the building was constructed in 1984, as far as we can see, and there's been no

279
00:16:44,934 --> 00:16:49,567
expansions to date. The building coverage currently is

280
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:56,367
over the building coverage allowance for the zoning district by 1%, so it's at 31%.

281
00:16:57,567 --> 00:17:03,400
So the applicant is seeking to add this storage structure for their business, which

282
00:17:03,467 --> 00:17:05,166
basically is going to hold ethanol

283
00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:10,467
that they use to process hemp into CBD.

284
00:17:11,634 --> 00:17:17,133
But that storage unit would exasperate the existing coverage

285
00:17:17,333 --> 00:17:20,900
nonconformity. Again, it's already at 31%.

286
00:17:23,033 --> 00:17:28,500
So to rectify this, they are seeking to expand the coverage limit in the entirety

287
00:17:28,634 --> 00:17:34,433
of the light industrial zoning district to 40% to allow that storage unit to be

288
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:34,967
possible.

289
00:17:36,867 --> 00:17:42,834
So, staff analyzed the request. So as you can see, this is what

290
00:17:42,934 --> 00:17:47,367
the proposed amendment will look like in the ordinance that is attached to the

291
00:17:47,433 --> 00:17:52,667
agenda. It's basically a simple cross out of 30% to make it 40%.

292
00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:56,266
So,

293
00:17:57,533 --> 00:18:02,667
we, as the planning staff, have to look at master plan consistency for all zoning

294
00:18:02,734 --> 00:18:07,266
text amendments to see if it aligns with our new comprehensive plan.

295
00:18:08,266 --> 00:18:13,200
So again, there's three zoning districts that are light industrial.

296
00:18:13,667 --> 00:18:16,233
I've highlighted them in purple.

297
00:18:17,767 --> 00:18:18,634
All of these

298
00:18:23,066 --> 00:18:27,467
light industrial zoning districts either exist in our future land use areas of

299
00:18:27,667 --> 00:18:29,667
unique growth or growth area.

300
00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:35,667
And within our future land use map, we have key land use

301
00:18:36,934 --> 00:18:41,467
priority areas or KLUPOs. So the

302
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:49,367
KLUPOs that exist for the light industrial are KLUPO one, which is our West End

303
00:18:49,433 --> 00:18:54,600
Business Park. And really the priority from the comp plan wants to prioritize the

304
00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:58,400
economic development of that area and investment in office and other

305
00:18:58,433 --> 00:19:03,800
non-residential development. The existing property, why it's highlighted in blue,

306
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:06,667
is within the Maine Mall mixed use KLUPO.

307
00:19:07,133 --> 00:19:12,200
And this is really a vision of that area is to support the Maine Mall,

308
00:19:13,266 --> 00:19:19,233
and the shopping centers around that, and also try to put major investment in the

309
00:19:19,333 --> 00:19:23,567
area by repurposing older buildings, repurposing

310
00:19:24,867 --> 00:19:30,700
extra surface parking, or making that more efficient for uses, and really

311
00:19:31,066 --> 00:19:34,200
trying to bring in a diversification of uses in that area.

312
00:19:35,066 --> 00:19:36,634
The other KLUPO

313
00:19:37,934 --> 00:19:42,867
that exists for light industrial is the airport industrial area, KLUPO number four.

314
00:19:43,333 --> 00:19:48,467
And really, we want to see that remain industrial in character, and we're looking

315
00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:52,800
to support warehousing, logistics, light industrial, and lodging businesses there.

316
00:19:55,166 --> 00:20:00,934
So the amendment, we feel supports the master

317
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:06,767
plan because it is really asking to increase the building coverage to

318
00:20:06,834 --> 00:20:12,433
do some infill growth and really to support development investment in the

319
00:20:13,133 --> 00:20:18,700
light industrial areas. The comprehensive plan really supports this through a

320
00:20:18,734 --> 00:20:24,467
couple strategies in the economic development section and in the state

321
00:20:24,567 --> 00:20:30,500
strategies. Really, again, specific call-outs to really

322
00:20:30,567 --> 00:20:33,967
see that infill growth happening in the light industrial area.

323
00:20:35,367 --> 00:20:39,734
So when we're looking at it from just a zoning district analysis, we wanted to

324
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,600
compare it to other zoning districts that are also industrial and see

325
00:20:44,634 --> 00:20:47,934
what was happening in comparison.

326
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,033
Why are we at 30% for light industrial and the other,

327
00:20:53,266 --> 00:20:54,266
the shipyard,

328
00:20:55,467 --> 00:21:01,100
industrial, residential and non-residential, and non-residential industrial areas,

329
00:21:01,367 --> 00:21:06,100
why are their building coverages maybe more, or are we out of date here in the

330
00:21:06,133 --> 00:21:12,066
light industrial? So the first thing we looked at is that across the board, the

331
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,667
maximum lot coverage is not applicable.

332
00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:20,300
So that means that for any of these industrial zoning districts, you could cover

333
00:21:20,367 --> 00:21:22,467
the lot with pavement. There's

334
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:25,133
no

335
00:21:26,433 --> 00:21:31,567
parking lot restrictions or say you needed an area for

336
00:21:32,667 --> 00:21:36,900
utilities. So there's no restrictions across the board, and that is really to

337
00:21:36,934 --> 00:21:40,333
support the industrial development within the city.

338
00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:46,800
However, we have a larger range of building coverage permissions

339
00:21:46,834 --> 00:21:52,500
between the shipyard, the industrial, residential and non-residential, and the

340
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,433
I&R, the non-residential industrial districts.

341
00:21:55,934 --> 00:22:01,467
So, we have a disparity in the light industrial, although we're encouraging more

342
00:22:01,467 --> 00:22:03,467
building coverage and utilization

343
00:22:04,734 --> 00:22:08,834
for infill development in these other areas.

344
00:22:11,533 --> 00:22:17,500
So that basically is highlighting the other areas, showing them at a larger

345
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:18,000
amount.

346
00:22:19,967 --> 00:22:25,467
So we actually dove in a little bit deeper and did a desktop analysis of the

347
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,000
developed properties within the light industrial zoning district, just seeing what

348
00:22:30,033 --> 00:22:31,800
their existing building coverage is.

349
00:22:32,333 --> 00:22:34,367
And we looked at 38 properties

350
00:22:35,667 --> 00:22:40,900
that had structures on their parcels within the light industrial zoning district.

351
00:22:41,767 --> 00:22:47,233
Two of the 38 were non-conforming already with the 30% building coverage, including

352
00:22:47,333 --> 00:22:53,100
our applicant today and their neighbor at 170 John Roberts, which is at

353
00:22:53,467 --> 00:22:57,467
36%. So that specific area of town is

354
00:22:57,533 --> 00:23:03,500
really

355
00:23:03,533 --> 00:23:08,967
restricted from any future building expansions because of that non-conformity.

356
00:23:09,867 --> 00:23:10,767
We looked at

357
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,834
those that are getting close to the building coverage allowance, which we found

358
00:23:16,934 --> 00:23:21,433
seven of the 38 properties are at or above 25%.

359
00:23:21,767 --> 00:23:24,867
So they're not exceeding that 30%, but they're pretty darn close.

360
00:23:24,934 --> 00:23:30,600
We had some at 28%, 29%, so if they were like our applicant to come back, it would

361
00:23:30,634 --> 00:23:30,767
be

362
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,900
pretty hard to allow them to do any extra development on their own properties

363
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:37,333
today.

364
00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:43,266
So in general, we found that amending the building coverage allowance would be in

365
00:23:43,367 --> 00:23:47,333
parity with the other zoning districts, as we showed you, at 40%.

366
00:23:48,567 --> 00:23:54,500
It's not a large increase. We find it a modest request to get up in parity

367
00:23:54,533 --> 00:23:55,934
with the other zoning districts.

368
00:23:57,166 --> 00:24:02,967
And really it's supported in our comprehensive plan to allow

369
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:08,066
these properties, these owners, these small businesses often,

370
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,600
or even large businesses, to continue to make investments and expand their

371
00:24:12,634 --> 00:24:18,066
buildings to support development in our non-residential tax base.

372
00:24:19,033 --> 00:24:23,900
So in total, we're recommending that you recommend to the city council to approve

373
00:24:23,967 --> 00:24:28,800
the zoning text amendment contained at ordinance 7-26-27 to expand the building

374
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,333
coverage allowance from 30% to 40% in the light industrial zoning district.

375
00:24:33,834 --> 00:24:37,100
I'm here if you have any more questions, and the applicant is here as well to

376
00:24:37,166 --> 00:24:38,800
answer questions. Thank you.

377
00:24:39,333 --> 00:24:39,834
Thank you.

378
00:24:41,934 --> 00:24:45,900
If the applicant would like to supplement the presentation, they're welcome to do

379
00:24:45,967 --> 00:24:46,166
so.

380
00:24:47,467 --> 00:24:47,900
Thank you.

381
00:25:04,233 --> 00:25:06,800
Good evening, Chair and members of the planning board.

382
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,700
My name is Stacy Evans, and I'm representing Elevate Sciences Incorporated today

383
00:25:11,767 --> 00:25:16,000
before you in support of the proposed amendment to increase the maximum building

384
00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:21,700
coverage from 30% to 40% in South Portland's light industrial district.

385
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,433
We believe the amendment is consistent with, as Maren mentioned, the South

386
00:25:27,567 --> 00:25:31,934
Portland's comprehensive plan. It aligns with existing development patterns within

387
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,433
the light industrial district and supports continued investment and economic

388
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:41,300
development in areas already designated for industrial activity.

389
00:25:41,967 --> 00:25:45,300
We also appreciate the South Portland's collaborative approach throughout this

390
00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:51,166
whole process and respectfully support planning staff's recommendation that the

391
00:25:51,233 --> 00:25:53,133
board approve the proposed amendment.

392
00:25:53,333 --> 00:25:55,567
Thank you so much for your time and consideration.

393
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:56,066
Thank you.

394
00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:58,133
I'm available to answer any questions you have.

395
00:25:58,433 --> 00:25:58,800
Great.

396
00:26:00,767 --> 00:26:04,100
All right. This is a public hearing item, so I'll open it up to the public.

397
00:26:04,166 --> 00:26:09,967
If any member of the public is with us remotely, feel free to raise your virtual

398
00:26:10,066 --> 00:26:12,734
hand and be recognized if you'd like to speak on this item.

399
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:15,300
I see no hands online.

400
00:26:15,634 --> 00:26:17,867
All right. There's no hands in the room.

401
00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:21,300
Turn to the board. Mr. Ladd?

402
00:26:21,734 --> 00:26:24,166
I've got a couple of questions for the applicant.

403
00:26:26,233 --> 00:26:30,934
So if I understand correctly, you folks own a unit of a building?

404
00:26:32,066 --> 00:26:32,634
We lease it.

405
00:26:32,867 --> 00:26:36,333
You lease it. Okay. But it's part of a larger building, but there's different

406
00:26:36,433 --> 00:26:36,800
units.

407
00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:37,266
Yes.

408
00:26:37,367 --> 00:26:41,734
Okay. Is the storage facility going to be attached to your unit?

409
00:26:42,667 --> 00:26:46,200
No. It's away from the units.

410
00:26:46,266 --> 00:26:46,266
Okay.

411
00:26:46,266 --> 00:26:49,700
It's on the property, but it's not attached to the building.

412
00:26:50,567 --> 00:26:53,467
Okay. So you're going to be storing chemicals, bulk chemicals?

413
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,600
Yeah, just a few. I think it's

414
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,934
up to 600 gallons of ethanol, and that's it.

415
00:27:02,233 --> 00:27:07,133
Okay. For the planning director, does that involve the city fire department being

416
00:27:07,166 --> 00:27:08,667
involved? Does that-

417
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:14,300
Yes. This is to change the zoning to allow the coverage-

418
00:27:14,367 --> 00:27:14,367
Okay

419
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,834
... for the building, for any building.

420
00:27:16,033 --> 00:27:18,700
In this case, they're using it for the storage, ethanol storage.

421
00:27:19,467 --> 00:27:22,767
But then when they actually submit that request, it goes through full staff review

422
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:23,133
for that.

423
00:27:23,333 --> 00:27:23,600
Thank you.

424
00:27:23,867 --> 00:27:28,300
And in fact, one of the reasons why this building in particular ...

425
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:29,100
triggers

426
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,000
the coverage, which is a building-based metric.

427
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,634
So the thing that they're building has to be a building.

428
00:27:36,333 --> 00:27:39,400
If it was just a storage unit, that's a structure, it's not a building.

429
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:39,934
I know these

430
00:27:41,333 --> 00:27:44,667
sound like synonymous terms, but our ordinance actually sees them differently, a

431
00:27:44,734 --> 00:27:47,900
shed and a structure that's meant for occupancy.

432
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:53,100
And under the building code, fire and our code staff reviewed it because it's

433
00:27:53,133 --> 00:27:57,734
conditioned and because it's meant to contain specific kinds of material that need

434
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,834
extra care and attention. We have to classify it as a building coverage, not a

435
00:28:01,934 --> 00:28:06,734
structural coverage thing. So that's why they're here in part, is because these

436
00:28:06,767 --> 00:28:09,467
other departments have been looking at it and are familiar with it.

437
00:28:10,166 --> 00:28:10,367
Okay.

438
00:28:13,266 --> 00:28:13,900
Mr. McDonald?

439
00:28:15,634 --> 00:28:16,700
Were you finished, Ms. White?

440
00:28:16,734 --> 00:28:16,967
Yes.

441
00:28:17,767 --> 00:28:21,634
A couple questions. You answered one by saying that you're renting.

442
00:28:22,467 --> 00:28:26,634
Another question I have is, how are you going to capture or prevent the smell of

443
00:28:26,667 --> 00:28:30,300
the CBD-producing material from escaping?

444
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:36,867
So currently, we produce CBD animal health supplements in the existing building.

445
00:28:37,433 --> 00:28:39,600
So that's where they're manufactured currently.

446
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,734
So it's not going to be in a storage enclosure.

447
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,233
So it's already in operation right now?

448
00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:48,200
Yeah. And it's been in operation since 2018.

449
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:48,934
Oh, okay.

450
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,333
Yeah. So you can't smell it.

451
00:28:50,367 --> 00:28:52,166
We haven't heard about it yet. We're not going to hear about it.

452
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,467
We're just wondering about the smell.

453
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:56,800
Yeah.

454
00:28:57,533 --> 00:29:01,967
This facility processes hemp, which is an agricultural product.

455
00:29:02,066 --> 00:29:02,200
Right.

456
00:29:03,033 --> 00:29:07,433
And it's not actually regulated under our marijuana ordinances.

457
00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:07,900
Okay.

458
00:29:07,967 --> 00:29:12,100
So where we do have things like HVAC equipment controls, or it would've had to come

459
00:29:12,166 --> 00:29:14,266
to you as a site plan for marijuana approval.

460
00:29:14,533 --> 00:29:14,667
Right.

461
00:29:15,567 --> 00:29:18,967
This is not a marijuana manufacturing facility. It's a hemp processing.

462
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:25,033
Now, that agricultural product still has some of that same odor component, but to

463
00:29:25,066 --> 00:29:28,867
your point, and we're hearing since 2018, and we haven't had any complaints.

464
00:29:28,867 --> 00:29:30,600
Okay. We haven't had any complaints and all that.

465
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,967
With that, and

466
00:29:35,033 --> 00:29:41,000
this may be for Marin or Milan, where do other communities in our area sit in this

467
00:29:41,033 --> 00:29:46,400
particular guideline? We're looking to move it up to 40%, which I'm assuming would

468
00:29:46,467 --> 00:29:48,834
then be cross-applied to everything in the IL.

469
00:29:49,567 --> 00:29:53,700
If we're going to give an exception to this applicant, every other applicant going

470
00:29:53,734 --> 00:29:55,400
forward is going to have to accept it as well.

471
00:29:55,867 --> 00:30:01,734
Where are the other communities in our neighbor, Portland, Scarborough, Gorham,

472
00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:04,567
Westbrook, where are they in percentage-wise?

473
00:30:07,233 --> 00:30:12,900
So our industrial districts, every town is going to apply and look at their zones

474
00:30:12,934 --> 00:30:13,700
differently. I

475
00:30:15,266 --> 00:30:18,700
don't know that it's going to be a fair comparison to look at the two differently.

476
00:30:19,467 --> 00:30:22,533
I will say though, and I think Marin tried to cover this, the comprehensive plan

477
00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:25,700
wants this area to be significantly more invested in.

478
00:30:25,867 --> 00:30:26,367
Absolutely.

479
00:30:26,467 --> 00:30:32,400
The IL zone most likely will be removed from this area when the overall zoning for

480
00:30:32,467 --> 00:30:38,033
the two-year process to implement the comprehensive plan will not have this area as

481
00:30:38,066 --> 00:30:43,800
industrial zoning. But it will have a proposal, at least, for a higher

482
00:30:43,867 --> 00:30:47,667
amount of building coverage, because the goal for the mall area is infill

483
00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:48,266
development.

484
00:30:48,533 --> 00:30:48,667
Right.

485
00:30:49,433 --> 00:30:54,367
So this applicant happens to need to work within the IL because that's the law

486
00:30:54,433 --> 00:30:54,767
today.

487
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,834
And so that's why they're amending what they're amending.

488
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:02,667
They're not trying to propose to implement our comprehensive plan.

489
00:31:02,667 --> 00:31:06,333
They're proposing to work on their property in alignment with our comp plan.

490
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,800
They're only dealing with the thing that they really need to deal with.

491
00:31:10,100 --> 00:31:14,467
So I can tell you that the policy direction we have is that this area has a

492
00:31:14,533 --> 00:31:16,667
relatively high building coverage percentage.

493
00:31:17,667 --> 00:31:20,700
And industrial zoning is not prescribed in this area.

494
00:31:20,767 --> 00:31:26,200
It will be moving more towards mixed use, housing, business park, and complementary

495
00:31:26,367 --> 00:31:29,900
type uses. That's the future comprehensive plan vision.

496
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,934
The comprehensive plan also will not remove existing businesses.

497
00:31:35,367 --> 00:31:39,900
So all those offices that are in here or the light industrial type activity that

498
00:31:39,967 --> 00:31:43,867
has been happening in here, those are all allowed to continue.

499
00:31:44,433 --> 00:31:48,600
If they choose to shut those down, they may need to move into a different

500
00:31:48,667 --> 00:31:51,834
direction. That'll come with our comprehensive plan zoning.

501
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:52,233
Right.

502
00:31:52,266 --> 00:31:57,567
So I think that 40% probably could go higher than what they're requesting, but they

503
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,266
don't need it for what it is that they want to do there.

504
00:32:01,033 --> 00:32:03,900
I'm just wondering if we should recommend a higher number, if that's what we're

505
00:32:03,934 --> 00:32:07,800
trying to get to anyway, and that way we could nip that in the bud, so we're not

506
00:32:07,834 --> 00:32:11,433
facing it again in the future. That's just my thoughts as the chair.

507
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,133
That's a recommendation you can make to the council.

508
00:32:15,433 --> 00:32:15,700
Yeah. I

509
00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:17,433
think

510
00:32:18,767 --> 00:32:24,100
it's likely to come up in the context of implementing the changes

511
00:32:24,166 --> 00:32:26,000
associated with the comprehensive plan.

512
00:32:27,867 --> 00:32:32,333
Like Milan mentioned, the light industrial zone could go away

513
00:32:34,433 --> 00:32:38,333
as we move through that process, and I think that would be better

514
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,266
vetted in that context. But

515
00:32:45,233 --> 00:32:46,033
I'm supportive of

516
00:32:47,567 --> 00:32:52,634
the proposed recommendation. I think the analysis makes sense to me.

517
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,166
The fact that we have other

518
00:32:56,934 --> 00:33:01,033
industrial zones that it aligns with,

519
00:33:02,967 --> 00:33:03,100
and

520
00:33:04,467 --> 00:33:06,000
it meets the applicant's needs.

521
00:33:07,233 --> 00:33:10,700
And I think we'll take a more comprehensive look as

522
00:33:12,133 --> 00:33:14,033
we move through. Yeah, sorry.

523
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,634
Marin Stevens, community planner. So I did the analysis.

524
00:33:18,767 --> 00:33:23,667
So the areas that I think that we would want to remain light industrial, again, I

525
00:33:23,667 --> 00:33:29,400
showed you that graphic of that there is no restrictions on lot

526
00:33:29,467 --> 00:33:33,533
coverage. Some of those areas have significant trees.

527
00:33:33,567 --> 00:33:36,734
They're near stream protection in the West End Business Park.

528
00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:42,266
So we were actually looking at let's go big, let's go large, but then when we

529
00:33:42,433 --> 00:33:47,400
looked at the developed areas in the West End Business Park,

530
00:33:49,433 --> 00:33:54,967
we recognized that you could

531
00:33:55,066 --> 00:34:00,700
extend into some significant tree coverage and stream areas in that area.

532
00:34:00,867 --> 00:34:03,867
So we found the 40% a modest increase,

533
00:34:05,367 --> 00:34:09,400
looking at the three different IL districts.

534
00:34:09,667 --> 00:34:14,500
So that's where we landed today, but again, those districts might change from light

535
00:34:14,533 --> 00:34:17,467
industrial to something else more industrial in the future.

536
00:34:17,867 --> 00:34:20,634
But in the current analysis that we looked at,

537
00:34:21,867 --> 00:34:27,000
the other light industrial areas aren't as developed as the main mall area.

538
00:34:27,100 --> 00:34:33,000
So that's where the modest 40% came to, just to give you a little bit of background

539
00:34:33,100 --> 00:34:34,533
on our analysis.

540
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,700
Mr. Bramble and Mr. Taylor, anything from you?

541
00:34:45,767 --> 00:34:46,567
Nothing from me.

542
00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:48,934
I'm good.

543
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:51,300
Great.

544
00:34:53,066 --> 00:34:58,700
I guess I'll close public comment and turn to the board for any further

545
00:34:59,033 --> 00:35:00,800
comments, questions, motion.

546
00:35:04,100 --> 00:35:04,867
I'll make a motion.

547
00:35:06,467 --> 00:35:10,233
Make a motion to recommend that the city council approve the zoning tax amendment

548
00:35:10,333 --> 00:35:16,166
contained in Ordinance 7-2627 to expand the building

549
00:35:16,233 --> 00:35:21,133
coverage allowance from 30% to 40% in the light industrial zoning district.

550
00:35:23,567 --> 00:35:25,433
All right. Motion by Mr. Ladd. Do we have a second?

551
00:35:26,233 --> 00:35:26,567
Second.

552
00:35:27,066 --> 00:35:29,266
Seconded by Mr. McDonald. Discussion?

553
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,533
All right. Now can we get a roll call vote?

554
00:35:35,066 --> 00:35:37,467
Mr. Bramble? Yes. Chair Kelly?

555
00:35:37,533 --> 00:35:38,000
Yes.

556
00:35:38,066 --> 00:35:38,600
Mr. Ladd?

557
00:35:38,667 --> 00:35:38,934
Yes.

558
00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:39,834
Mr. McDonald?

559
00:35:39,867 --> 00:35:40,333
Yes.

560
00:35:40,433 --> 00:35:41,200
And Mr. Taylor?

561
00:35:41,934 --> 00:35:42,166
Yes.

562
00:35:43,467 --> 00:35:46,634
All right. By a vote of five to motion, it passes, and the recommendation will be

563
00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:51,867
made. Thank you to applicant and staff for presentation of the work on this.

564
00:35:53,567 --> 00:35:58,000
And that brings us to public comment on items not on the agenda.

565
00:35:58,734 --> 00:36:02,100
If any member of the public has a comment on an item that is not on the agenda,

566
00:36:03,567 --> 00:36:05,367
now is the time to raise your hand.

567
00:36:06,500 --> 00:36:07,700
I see no hands online.

568
00:36:08,533 --> 00:36:08,967
All right.

569
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:12,367
And then,

570
00:36:15,066 --> 00:36:19,900
Milan, I don't know if you wanted to-- You mentioned you might want to talk about

571
00:36:21,333 --> 00:36:22,767
the process you're going through with the

572
00:36:24,467 --> 00:36:25,000
forms.

573
00:36:26,133 --> 00:36:27,300
We do that on number seven.

574
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:27,567
Okay.

575
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:28,467
That's not part of the workshop.

576
00:36:28,567 --> 00:36:28,934
Okay.

577
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:29,233
Yeah.

578
00:36:31,867 --> 00:36:33,500
Then items

579
00:36:34,734 --> 00:36:37,233
six and eight. We have no workshops on the agenda tonight.

580
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:40,934
Item seven, comments from the planning board and director of planning.

581
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:43,033
All right.

582
00:36:43,233 --> 00:36:47,533
Just a couple of brief ones, and then I'll show you a little visual just as a

583
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,600
teaser of some of the things we're working on.

584
00:36:51,767 --> 00:36:52,333
Comprehensive Plan

585
00:36:56,266 --> 00:36:59,433
Committee is meeting next week, Wednesday.

586
00:37:00,266 --> 00:37:03,767
And that'll be where we discuss for the first time the schedule for the

587
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,467
implementation of the comprehensive plan.

588
00:37:06,734 --> 00:37:07,767
So you'll get a sense of,

589
00:37:09,233 --> 00:37:12,967
well, through your representative and certainly if any of you attend or listen to

590
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,266
the meeting, what the pacing is and what parts of town we'll be tackling for

591
00:37:18,166 --> 00:37:21,200
implementing the core zoning reforms that we have to do.

592
00:37:21,266 --> 00:37:24,800
This isn't implementing the entire comprehensive plan, it's just doing the core

593
00:37:24,934 --> 00:37:30,000
zoning alignment. So, as I mentioned, this area that was here tonight is moving to

594
00:37:30,033 --> 00:37:33,500
a mixed-use district, so the industrial zoning will have to get cleared out of

595
00:37:33,567 --> 00:37:37,133
there. And to keep the things that make sense within that new vision.

596
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,500
So we're going to show you the schedule for that. It's roughly in six-month chunks.

597
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:48,033
So around spring 2027 would be the first package of ordinance

598
00:37:48,066 --> 00:37:51,800
amendments to implement the comprehensive plan that comes to the board.

599
00:37:52,333 --> 00:37:55,400
And the Comprehensive Plan Committee likely will see it in advance of that.

600
00:37:56,066 --> 00:38:01,667
So just as a heads up on that, whatever the CBCs guidance is on that schedule,

601
00:38:02,033 --> 00:38:03,734
I'll report that out at your next meeting.

602
00:38:03,767 --> 00:38:08,700
Or Jeff, if you want to report that out, just so this board has some knowledge of

603
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:13,133
when that heavier package is going to come forward, and those ordinances are going

604
00:38:13,133 --> 00:38:14,734
to be available for review.

605
00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:20,600
Second thing is the council schedule is

606
00:38:22,367 --> 00:38:26,500
off in the next couple of months due to a variety of things, holidays, elections.

607
00:38:26,834 --> 00:38:31,634
They're out for a convention, MMA convention, a conference.

608
00:38:32,734 --> 00:38:34,767
And so their schedule is adjusted.

609
00:38:36,133 --> 00:38:41,333
And I want to just cover that so you're aware, because there's also a conversation

610
00:38:41,533 --> 00:38:43,934
that we need to have about the planning board schedule.

611
00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:50,300
So just for your information, October 13th and 27th are the only city

612
00:38:50,367 --> 00:38:56,200
council dates. So that's when on November 27th, they'll see the first

613
00:38:56,300 --> 00:38:56,567
read

614
00:38:58,166 --> 00:39:02,100
of a couple of zoning amendments that are council directed.

615
00:39:02,333 --> 00:39:02,834
You'll have

616
00:39:05,066 --> 00:39:09,000
those come to you on October 14th at your meeting on October 14th.

617
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,233
And then November

618
00:39:12,867 --> 00:39:18,233
5th. November 12th is a workshop, and November 17th is their November meeting

619
00:39:18,266 --> 00:39:20,734
dates. For the board,

620
00:39:23,166 --> 00:39:24,000
we have

621
00:39:26,734 --> 00:39:32,066
November 11th as your normally scheduled meeting, which is obviously Veterans Day

622
00:39:32,433 --> 00:39:36,133
and city offices are closed, so we would not be meeting on that day.

623
00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:40,667
And then November 25th, we talked about this at the beginning of the year.

624
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,467
But we also, I think, Don, you were not part of the board at that point.

625
00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:48,767
November 25th is the day before Thanksgiving.

626
00:39:49,934 --> 00:39:55,467
So I kind of wanted to do a quorum check to see if we're not able to meet on our

627
00:39:55,467 --> 00:39:59,700
normal schedule of the 11th. Our next normal schedule would be the 25th, which is

628
00:39:59,734 --> 00:40:05,567
the day before a holiday. If that's dicey for people, then what would be good is if

629
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,467
we can pin down the alternative dates for November.

630
00:40:09,266 --> 00:40:13,800
November 18th seems like a good candidate because it splits the difference between

631
00:40:13,834 --> 00:40:14,300
those two.

632
00:40:16,166 --> 00:40:16,433
So

633
00:40:17,667 --> 00:40:21,066
number one, is November 25th

634
00:40:22,333 --> 00:40:28,133
not ideal? And since we have to cancel the 11th anyway, and that makes it a kind of

635
00:40:28,166 --> 00:40:29,700
a long wait for applicants,

636
00:40:31,166 --> 00:40:35,400
do you prefer just to make it the 18th and just give people the 25th so they don't

637
00:40:35,433 --> 00:40:39,767
have to worry about it and scramble the day before family arrives and whatnot.

638
00:40:40,533 --> 00:40:44,300
So I think that's what we're asking is do you want to cancel your November 25th

639
00:40:44,367 --> 00:40:47,066
date, move it to the 18th, or keep the 25th?

640
00:40:48,967 --> 00:40:53,433
And while we're at it, if there's any other scheduling that we want to change

641
00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:54,433
before the end of the year.

642
00:40:54,934 --> 00:40:59,700
I think the 18th sounds good because it gives the applicants, they don't have to

643
00:40:59,767 --> 00:41:00,834
wait till the 25th.

644
00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:01,300
Mm-hmm.

645
00:41:02,567 --> 00:41:04,467
So I think the 18th is more user-friendly.

646
00:41:06,066 --> 00:41:06,967
Okay.

647
00:41:07,066 --> 00:41:11,000
Yeah, I agree. I would not be able to make the 25th.

648
00:41:12,266 --> 00:41:13,600
The 18th does work for me.

649
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:17,700
Anyone else?

650
00:41:18,834 --> 00:41:21,367
As I said last year, I don't mind working on Veterans Day.

651
00:41:23,233 --> 00:41:27,166
You guys do for some reason, so I fought for you guys to take the day off.

652
00:41:28,333 --> 00:41:29,233
But I'm okay with the 18th.

653
00:41:30,133 --> 00:41:30,467
Okay.

654
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,634
Any issues, Cooper or Mike? 18th works for me.

655
00:41:38,433 --> 00:41:39,600
Let's do it for the 18th.

656
00:41:40,333 --> 00:41:42,100
All right. That sounds good.

657
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,567
All right, so November 25th is out. We're moving to the 18th.

658
00:41:46,333 --> 00:41:47,233
The second thing I want to just-

659
00:41:47,266 --> 00:41:47,767
That's correct.

660
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:48,767
Mm-hmm.

661
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:51,834
Was that?

662
00:41:52,367 --> 00:41:53,533
I think he just said that's right.

663
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,533
No, I'm just saying that's good. Yeah, I propose that. Yeah, that's great.

664
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:58,500
Okay. And-

665
00:41:58,667 --> 00:41:59,634
What did you say, Mike?

666
00:42:01,500 --> 00:42:05,867
The second thing is, just based on our current scheduling, we will definitely have

667
00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:08,934
an item for you on the October 14th hearing date.

668
00:42:08,967 --> 00:42:11,567
And actually, there'll be two council-directed items.

669
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,266
So I'm hoping we can confirm a quorum. We can do that offline.

670
00:42:15,367 --> 00:42:18,767
We don't have to do it right now. I can text you or whatever to just confirm for

671
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:24,300
the 14th. But right now, we're not having anything tracking for October 28th,

672
00:42:24,433 --> 00:42:29,100
except there's some discussion about an ordinance, again, that may stem from

673
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,600
council. So if needed,

674
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,000
October 28th, if you guys can just hold that as likely happening.

675
00:42:37,066 --> 00:42:40,233
I know we're trying to do once a month, but this is a particular month where

676
00:42:41,367 --> 00:42:45,266
because of the adjustments to the other schedules and everything else, we may need

677
00:42:45,300 --> 00:42:49,634
to hold the two meetings. So I can follow up with you on that, but this October

678
00:42:49,734 --> 00:42:54,667
month, just plan on the second and the fourth until I let you know otherwise, if we

679
00:42:54,734 --> 00:42:54,967
can.

680
00:42:56,300 --> 00:42:56,600
Okay?

681
00:42:57,033 --> 00:42:57,200
Yep.

682
00:42:59,567 --> 00:43:00,467
Mr. McDonald.

683
00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:05,667
I asked James when I went over to pick up our sweatshirts, which looks really nice,

684
00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:06,066
by the way.

685
00:43:06,266 --> 00:43:06,400
Thank you.

686
00:43:06,867 --> 00:43:09,800
Can we get an updated list of what the calendar looks like?

687
00:43:09,867 --> 00:43:13,600
Because I still have things that are on my calendar that don't get taken off when

688
00:43:13,667 --> 00:43:17,100
we change things. So I just want to make sure I can go through and take everything

689
00:43:17,166 --> 00:43:17,834
off that's off.

690
00:43:18,333 --> 00:43:18,467
Yep.

691
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:20,634
For the foreseeable future, what we have available.

692
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:26,000
Yep. I'll have Jim update your meeting invites and then give you also just a

693
00:43:26,834 --> 00:43:28,266
sheet that you can fill this off.

694
00:43:28,634 --> 00:43:28,800
Okay.

695
00:43:30,066 --> 00:43:30,066
Okay?

696
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,867
All right. Very quickly, I don't want to spend a ton of time on it, and we can

697
00:43:33,934 --> 00:43:35,467
enjoy an earlier night.

698
00:43:36,767 --> 00:43:40,800
But I did want to mention, just because I'm excited about where we could go with

699
00:43:40,867 --> 00:43:41,233
this.

700
00:43:42,834 --> 00:43:44,033
We're trying to implement

701
00:43:45,233 --> 00:43:48,567
some AI-driven tools to help us with application intake.

702
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:52,133
And we've been working with a couple of guys who are

703
00:43:55,934 --> 00:43:59,367
working coding or IT in government, in particular.

704
00:44:00,066 --> 00:44:02,033
And they've been helping us develop this tool.

705
00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:07,433
I just happened to be working on it earlier that takes the universal planning board

706
00:44:07,533 --> 00:44:11,200
application materials and moves it more into a digital realm.

707
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:17,367
So this looks like a conventional form, but what it sort of hides behind the scenes

708
00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:22,600
is that it's interconnected with our ordinances, our planning board regulations,

709
00:44:22,767 --> 00:44:24,066
our application history,

710
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:28,467
and helps applicants along as they're working.

711
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:32,233
The model that we're trying to use for this, if you're familiar with it, is like

712
00:44:32,300 --> 00:44:36,233
TurboTax, where you're able to just, it prompts you with the questions, and based

713
00:44:36,266 --> 00:44:38,667
on your answers, it can also prompt follow-up questions.

714
00:44:38,734 --> 00:44:44,100
So if you say, "I'm in the shoreline area, yes," then it kicks in a variety of

715
00:44:44,133 --> 00:44:48,266
questions. So if you say no, you'll never see that portion of the application.

716
00:44:48,333 --> 00:44:50,867
So it keeps things simple for you if your project is simple.

717
00:44:51,300 --> 00:44:55,500
But if your project, if you feed in more information and disclose, and we're asking

718
00:44:55,533 --> 00:45:00,734
the key questions we need to ask, then applicants using the AI tool will be able to

719
00:45:00,767 --> 00:45:03,867
build out an application as if they're talking with a staff member to get there.

720
00:45:05,166 --> 00:45:08,667
There's a sort of self-directed version of this. There's also a version where...

721
00:45:11,166 --> 00:45:12,867
Let me see where I have it in here.

722
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:23,634
You can enter in your

723
00:45:25,900 --> 00:45:26,600
location.

724
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,533
It's tied to our GIS and can identify information about your property immediately.

725
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,166
Yes, this is the location I want to go with. I want to talk it through.

726
00:45:38,166 --> 00:45:41,333
I'm interested in marijuana

727
00:45:43,133 --> 00:45:44,433
... retail store here.

728
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:51,934
And then it will mine our ordinance and try to dig into what it is that you need to

729
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:57,066
know in order to get prepared so that maybe you can have more intelligent

730
00:45:57,700 --> 00:46:01,600
follow-up questions with staff, make good use of your time, and it'll sort of focus

731
00:46:01,667 --> 00:46:07,533
you in. The benefit to this versus just a generic AI tool, like you can go to

732
00:46:07,567 --> 00:46:12,300
ChatGPT at home and ask, "Tell me what South Portland needs in order for me to open

733
00:46:12,333 --> 00:46:16,266
a marijuana retail store." What we're trying to build, and we're not done yet, so

734
00:46:16,333 --> 00:46:17,934
these answers aren't exactly tailored.

735
00:46:18,467 --> 00:46:23,634
What we're trying to build is a closed environment, so it's not hallucinating, it's

736
00:46:23,667 --> 00:46:28,200
not pulling City of Portland ordinances, it's not getting other information.

737
00:46:28,300 --> 00:46:33,667
So we're fact-checking behind the scenes and interested in releasing this when we

738
00:46:33,734 --> 00:46:36,800
know that it's actually giving people helpful information, or if it can't get to

739
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:41,066
that information because it's too complex and too many iterative tasks, that it

740
00:46:41,133 --> 00:46:42,467
knows when to kick it out to staff.

741
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,000
But so far, we're in the early days of testing this out and building it out.

742
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:53,333
The ideal is that we eventually get to this talk it through chatbot will basically

743
00:46:53,433 --> 00:46:57,233
identify all the component parts that you need, that it will then kick you into

744
00:46:57,233 --> 00:46:59,300
your actual digital application form.

745
00:46:59,734 --> 00:47:04,333
You can start it, save it, come back to it later, eventually fill it out, and then

746
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:05,333
you're submitting something

747
00:47:06,934 --> 00:47:11,900
that is more ready. The other thing we've been working on is this plan review tool,

748
00:47:11,934 --> 00:47:14,033
and we've been testing it out with various examples.

749
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:21,000
This tool is very cool. It mines the site plan application, the digital document

750
00:47:21,066 --> 00:47:25,834
that's submitted, and scans it for all the things that we're looking for when we

751
00:47:25,900 --> 00:47:28,900
review it as staff. So it'll find things.

752
00:47:28,967 --> 00:47:33,266
For instance, if you're providing a site plan set and you give a metric for height

753
00:47:33,767 --> 00:47:38,734
in that site plan that is some number, and then you're showing an elevation drawing

754
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,367
a little bit later on, if your scale is off and if the elevation drawing says it's

755
00:47:43,533 --> 00:47:48,033
40 feet, but your number in your table says it's 38 feet, it'll tell you in advance

756
00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:52,166
with this sort of audit of your submission. Is it consistent?

757
00:47:52,533 --> 00:47:54,767
Are you missing pieces? Do you have the north arrow?

758
00:47:54,834 --> 00:47:59,667
Is this digitally signed by a surveyor? Do you have the updated date stamp?

759
00:48:00,500 --> 00:48:03,934
Do you have the zoning table that tells you if it's compliant with setbacks?

760
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,300
Have you measured distances to FEMA because this property's in a FEMA zone?

761
00:48:08,634 --> 00:48:11,200
It'll kind of give you this rubric so it's elective.

762
00:48:11,333 --> 00:48:15,867
Applicants can just sort of choose to feed their application through this initial

763
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:21,300
screen test, and hopefully it'll ferret out the things that staff will eventually

764
00:48:21,333 --> 00:48:24,367
come back to you with. Just you don't have to wait 30 days for staff to compile

765
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,266
those edits. You can get it right away, and that way your application's more

766
00:48:27,300 --> 00:48:31,867
complete. If the AI is hallucinating, it'll tell you, "Hey, you didn't provide a

767
00:48:31,867 --> 00:48:34,400
written statement on whatever." And it's like, "Actually, I did. It's here.

768
00:48:34,467 --> 00:48:37,800
You just missed it or something went wrong or whatever." You can just ignore it.

769
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:43,300
Your application's still fine. But if it flags something that you actually know you

770
00:48:43,367 --> 00:48:46,634
need to address, you did not put the zoning district in there. Oh, shoot. Okay.

771
00:48:46,734 --> 00:48:49,867
Let me do that because I know staff's going to ask for it later, and this saves me

772
00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:51,734
the time, and I can hit the ground running.

773
00:48:52,634 --> 00:48:58,133
So those are two tools where they can-- we'll be using AI to screen applicants and

774
00:48:58,166 --> 00:49:01,934
give this to applicants so that they can give better submissions and then make

775
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,066
those submissions through the portal, so that we can process them faster and we

776
00:49:06,100 --> 00:49:07,066
know where the answers are.

777
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:12,066
So I think we're hopeful we can get to a December rollout.

778
00:49:12,667 --> 00:49:16,734
We'll do a little bit of beta testing with some applications and whatnot through

779
00:49:16,767 --> 00:49:21,634
November and early December, and then try to start testing it out with applicants

780
00:49:21,667 --> 00:49:23,133
and do a little bit of coaching along the way.

781
00:49:23,166 --> 00:49:25,734
We might be sitting with applicants and actually having Mr.

782
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,033
Shadowing as they go through it just to make sure it's working.

783
00:49:31,033 --> 00:49:33,600
But so far, it's looking promising.

784
00:49:33,700 --> 00:49:36,533
It's just we do have to really take a lot of care.

785
00:49:36,867 --> 00:49:38,734
Designing those systems is super easy.

786
00:49:39,100 --> 00:49:42,400
You can launch these within hours this tool is available.

787
00:49:43,333 --> 00:49:46,667
It's all the controlling for all the hallucinations behind the scenes that is

788
00:49:47,166 --> 00:49:52,734
really, really tedious. But if we can get it right, it'll replicate a lot of what

789
00:49:52,767 --> 00:49:57,200
staff do, at least for the easy stuff, and let us focus on the big, important

790
00:49:57,233 --> 00:49:57,800
questions.

791
00:49:58,433 --> 00:50:00,734
Are there other communities in Maine using this tool?

792
00:50:01,367 --> 00:50:02,867
As far as we know, we're the only ones.

793
00:50:02,900 --> 00:50:03,567
This company-

794
00:50:03,834 --> 00:50:04,066
All right

795
00:50:04,066 --> 00:50:06,200
... has two others, and they're actively in development.

796
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,433
But no one has launched anything like this yet.

797
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:14,767
I think it's a bit of a new frontier. So I'm here to see if it'll be useful.

798
00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:19,300
It's exciting to work on, but definitely requires some input.

799
00:50:21,333 --> 00:50:24,834
So more on this later, but I just wanted to kind of give you a window into that.

800
00:50:26,033 --> 00:50:27,600
Thank you for sharing.

801
00:50:29,233 --> 00:50:29,767
Anything else?

802
00:50:30,166 --> 00:50:30,934
That's it for me.

803
00:50:31,834 --> 00:50:32,033
Jeff?

804
00:50:32,767 --> 00:50:33,533
I do have something.

805
00:50:35,133 --> 00:50:36,567
I was reviewing,

806
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:39,400
getting ready for the

807
00:50:41,033 --> 00:50:45,767
upcoming meetings regarding implementation, and I found that we have a discordant

808
00:50:46,734 --> 00:50:52,700
fire code as compared to the federal standards that were implemented in 2021.

809
00:50:53,967 --> 00:50:59,900
So I can send you all the discordance that I would hope to be able

810
00:50:59,934 --> 00:51:03,567
to resolve, because in the same vein as you have all this stuff to speed things up,

811
00:51:04,333 --> 00:51:09,200
this is holding up, and it's costing builders exceptionally more money to build

812
00:51:09,233 --> 00:51:14,033
something because our standards are lower than what the federal fire protection

813
00:51:14,133 --> 00:51:18,533
standards ask for, and we're the only city in the entire state that has that.

814
00:51:20,033 --> 00:51:25,367
So in our new comp plan, with our new comp plan goals of speeding things up and

815
00:51:25,433 --> 00:51:28,767
making things more affordable, this is going to be a pretty big initiative to try

816
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:28,934
to-

817
00:51:29,233 --> 00:51:30,233
Can you give an example?

818
00:51:31,066 --> 00:51:34,934
Sure. The difference between high-rise versus a mid-rise building.

819
00:51:35,900 --> 00:51:40,367
Our high-rise, the national standard says 75 feet and above is a high-rise.

820
00:51:40,934 --> 00:51:44,634
High-rises have completely different building products that are required.

821
00:51:44,934 --> 00:51:46,600
Ours is 25 feet lower.

822
00:51:46,734 --> 00:51:47,033
Wow.

823
00:51:47,867 --> 00:51:53,166
So anything that we build at 50 feet, we have to build it using high-rise

824
00:51:53,233 --> 00:51:57,867
materials, even though it's not necessary, or at least the federal fire protection

825
00:51:58,734 --> 00:52:03,567
says it's not. And this is a barrier to building in our city that I don't know if

826
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,066
it's intentional or if it just got stuck somewhere that people didn't realize

827
00:52:07,133 --> 00:52:09,800
about, but it is something that I learned, and

828
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,634
I wanted to bring it to everyone here's attention so that now that that is one of

829
00:52:15,667 --> 00:52:19,433
the things that I think that we should really consider going forward to make the

830
00:52:19,467 --> 00:52:22,700
recommendation to make our fire codes

831
00:52:25,233 --> 00:52:30,100
align with what the federal fire codes are, whether it's the International Building

832
00:52:31,367 --> 00:52:35,300
Commission or the Federal Fire Protection Commission.

833
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,634
This is something I'm quite familiar with, and we raised with the fire department

834
00:52:42,700 --> 00:52:47,767
a while back. And actually just yesterday, reached out to the fire chief and others

835
00:52:47,900 --> 00:52:50,533
so we can set up a meeting to get into this because the

836
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:56,333
comprehensive plan implementation does ask for some increased height allowance in

837
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,266
certain areas like the Mall and downtown.

838
00:52:59,033 --> 00:53:04,433
So specifically, what Jeff is referring to is Section 8-4.2 in Chapter 8 of our

839
00:53:04,433 --> 00:53:06,166
ordinance, which is the fire protection section.

840
00:53:06,333 --> 00:53:11,333
We generally adopt NFPA and other codes as the codes that affect are here, except

841
00:53:12,667 --> 00:53:17,033
there are certain instances where we say we are actually going to set a new

842
00:53:17,066 --> 00:53:21,900
standard different from NFPA, and there's a few cases of this.

843
00:53:22,133 --> 00:53:24,533
One of them is this high-rise designation.

844
00:53:24,667 --> 00:53:30,533
So in South Portland, the high-rise building is 50 feet, where nationally it's

845
00:53:30,734 --> 00:53:31,400
75 feet.

846
00:53:32,834 --> 00:53:37,934
But yeah, I'm very aware of the cost of construction implications of making that

847
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,467
designation is something that we are working on with the fire department.

848
00:53:40,634 --> 00:53:40,634
Right.

849
00:53:40,667 --> 00:53:45,033
So we hope we'll be bringing the ordinance package that will have an update on

850
00:53:45,100 --> 00:53:45,500
this.

851
00:53:47,133 --> 00:53:50,667
Again, not sure exactly where we'll land and what the fire department will advocate

852
00:53:50,967 --> 00:53:53,066
on this, but it's certainly going to be part of the discussion.

853
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:57,700
And again, the cost difference is significant to the point where it's prohibitive

854
00:53:58,367 --> 00:54:01,033
to actually build some of the stuff that we're trying to push through.

855
00:54:02,033 --> 00:54:02,300
So

856
00:54:04,033 --> 00:54:05,967
I just wanted to make everybody aware of that.

857
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,734
Thanks. Does most of that live in the

858
00:54:13,166 --> 00:54:15,767
Chapter 8 or Article 8?

859
00:54:16,467 --> 00:54:17,000
This is it.

860
00:54:17,133 --> 00:54:18,233
Yeah.

861
00:54:18,266 --> 00:54:23,967
So where we amend other standards, yes, in the fire world, lives in

862
00:54:24,033 --> 00:54:24,800
Chapter 8.

863
00:54:24,900 --> 00:54:25,066
Mm-hmm.

864
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:31,133
Specifically, all it would take would be deleting this one if it was-- I think what

865
00:54:31,133 --> 00:54:33,100
Jeff is advocating is that we just get an alignment.

866
00:54:33,266 --> 00:54:33,433
Mm-hmm.

867
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,400
But we need to first understand why this was adopted, if there's any reasons why we

868
00:54:38,433 --> 00:54:41,467
are different, and what's the justification.

869
00:54:41,567 --> 00:54:45,667
Mm-hmm. We're not different. We're unique. We're the only one that has this.

870
00:54:46,500 --> 00:54:46,734
So it

871
00:54:49,533 --> 00:54:54,967
creates a significant problem with competitiveness in our city compared to

872
00:54:55,033 --> 00:54:56,166
everybody else in the state.

873
00:54:58,100 --> 00:55:03,900
Yeah. What I was getting at was, as a matter of course, the amendments of this

874
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,367
section of the ordinance don't necessarily come before us, right?

875
00:55:07,634 --> 00:55:08,266
The planning board.

876
00:55:08,834 --> 00:55:09,367
No, they wouldn't.

877
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,667
When was that last changed? 2021.

878
00:55:14,433 --> 00:55:15,800
2021 is the

879
00:55:18,667 --> 00:55:22,767
last edit to chapter eight, but it's not when this section was-

880
00:55:22,834 --> 00:55:23,333
Oh, okay

881
00:55:23,367 --> 00:55:26,567
... amended. So this goes back much further than that.

882
00:55:26,667 --> 00:55:26,834
That far.

883
00:55:26,834 --> 00:55:27,800
I don't know the exactly.

884
00:55:29,333 --> 00:55:29,967
But yeah, it's

885
00:55:32,166 --> 00:55:34,767
older. I think it's more than 20 years old.

886
00:55:34,834 --> 00:55:37,667
That's what I was thinking, too. When I saw the 2021, I was like, "This doesn't..."

887
00:55:37,767 --> 00:55:39,066
So I looked back at the 2020.

888
00:55:39,667 --> 00:55:41,200
2021 is when we did the sprinkler update.

889
00:55:41,266 --> 00:55:44,000
Yes, and that's all I could find. I couldn't find anything in this, so I was

890
00:55:44,033 --> 00:55:47,133
wondering how did this end in there, because all there was the sprinkler codes.

891
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:48,934
I assume it's older than that, too.

892
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,834
I was here in '21, and that would've been a much bigger discussion with me, so I

893
00:55:53,867 --> 00:55:55,467
would've remembered that for sure.

894
00:55:55,567 --> 00:55:58,200
I'm glad to hear that, Milan, because I was really wondering how that got through.

895
00:55:58,266 --> 00:56:00,100
I was like, "Wait a second. We're trying to streamline everything.

896
00:56:00,100 --> 00:56:01,033
How did that get through?"

897
00:56:01,266 --> 00:56:07,033
Yeah. But right. Planning board doesn't have a role with zoning to advocate,

898
00:56:07,066 --> 00:56:11,467
to make a recommendation. It doesn't mean that you all can't-

899
00:56:12,467 --> 00:56:12,634
Yeah

900
00:56:12,634 --> 00:56:13,834
... communicate something to council-

901
00:56:13,834 --> 00:56:14,467
It's good to know, yeah

902
00:56:14,467 --> 00:56:15,333
... in a workshop or whatever.

903
00:56:16,467 --> 00:56:19,033
That's why I wanted to bring to everyone's attention, because I don't know what our

904
00:56:19,066 --> 00:56:19,867
role is in-

905
00:56:19,934 --> 00:56:20,100
Yeah

906
00:56:20,100 --> 00:56:23,166
... doing this, but if we could even have a workshop and then submit a

907
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,367
recommendation to the city council to get us aligned with everybody else in the

908
00:56:26,433 --> 00:56:28,667
state, because we're trying to do this in the new comp plan.

909
00:56:29,133 --> 00:56:31,634
If we can get this thing... Because this is significant.

910
00:56:33,033 --> 00:56:36,500
Think about this. All of the buildings we have are four feet or significantly

911
00:56:36,533 --> 00:56:39,800
higher, but you can't build a five-story building in our town because it's just too

912
00:56:39,834 --> 00:56:42,767
expensive. You'll build it down in Scarborough instead,

913
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:45,667
where they don't have to deal with this.

914
00:56:46,967 --> 00:56:49,533
So there's significant structural issues?

915
00:56:50,567 --> 00:56:55,066
Yes. There's an entirely different structural standard that applies.

916
00:56:55,133 --> 00:56:59,300
There's standpipes and other fire suppression equipment that kicks in, higher

917
00:56:59,333 --> 00:57:00,800
technologies that are used.

918
00:57:03,767 --> 00:57:09,500
All of it contributes significantly more to cost in comparison to the non-high

919
00:57:09,567 --> 00:57:12,066
rise class of structure. And nationally,

920
00:57:13,533 --> 00:57:18,467
NFPA says those things are all important, effective fire suppression

921
00:57:19,133 --> 00:57:20,133
techniques and tools,

922
00:57:22,100 --> 00:57:26,367
and we only will require them at scale of a 75-foot building.

923
00:57:26,900 --> 00:57:26,934
Mm-hmm.

924
00:57:26,934 --> 00:57:30,667
And we require them at the scale of a 50-foot building. So that's the big thing.

925
00:57:30,700 --> 00:57:33,467
It's not necessarily that those component parts are wrong.

926
00:57:33,867 --> 00:57:38,934
This is a question, from understanding Jeff's point of view, is that we're

927
00:57:40,867 --> 00:57:43,567
sort of overkill for the size of the building that we're talking about.

928
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:45,934
But our code says 50 feet is

929
00:57:47,266 --> 00:57:49,700
when we want to apply these additive protections.

930
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,734
It'd be like requiring a sprinkler system in a garden shed.

931
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:54,166
Right.

932
00:57:54,967 --> 00:57:56,266
Nobody's going to build a garden shed after that.

933
00:57:56,934 --> 00:58:01,567
Well, this is the part that we're getting into, and I can't speak to all of the

934
00:58:01,567 --> 00:58:05,133
benefits and trade-offs of making this designation.

935
00:58:06,033 --> 00:58:09,367
These things all make the building safer, no question about it, right?

936
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:14,100
Because the question is, is it justified to put it at that scale, and what does it

937
00:58:14,133 --> 00:58:17,834
mean for some of our other goals, and is there a challenge in there?

938
00:58:18,734 --> 00:58:21,834
And I think we need to hear more from the fire department about this, because this

939
00:58:21,900 --> 00:58:25,467
was all adopted before certainly any of us were engaged on it.

940
00:58:27,867 --> 00:58:28,233
But yeah.

941
00:58:28,634 --> 00:58:33,967
I'm thinking about the coastal resilience and sort of

942
00:58:35,834 --> 00:58:37,867
the need in certain areas to build up

943
00:58:39,233 --> 00:58:44,100
and how that aligns with... Because there's going to be a cost associated with

944
00:58:45,066 --> 00:58:46,400
making improvements and

945
00:58:49,233 --> 00:58:52,166
layering on additional cost if you... Yeah.

946
00:58:53,700 --> 00:58:59,166
I'm picturing those areas. They're not necessarily the ones where we're going to

947
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:00,066
see this, but

948
00:59:02,500 --> 00:59:03,066
yeah. Just-

949
00:59:03,767 --> 00:59:04,100
Yeah

950
00:59:04,100 --> 00:59:07,533
... be interesting. I think it definitely comes up in the context of the

951
00:59:07,567 --> 00:59:10,567
implementation work that the Comp Plan Committee's doing.

952
00:59:10,767 --> 00:59:15,200
The problem with the implementation, as Milan talked about, we don't know what the

953
00:59:15,266 --> 00:59:18,567
structure is going to look like, or how long it's going to take, and when we'll

954
00:59:18,667 --> 00:59:21,467
actually address that. I'd want to address that pretty quickly.

955
00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:26,133
Are we going to be approving the implementations all at once, or are we going to be

956
00:59:26,133 --> 00:59:27,367
doing them step at a time?

957
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,367
It's too much to do all at once.

958
00:59:31,467 --> 00:59:31,934
That's what I thought.

959
00:59:33,500 --> 00:59:36,900
We could do it all at once, but it would mean waiting two years and then doing it

960
00:59:36,934 --> 00:59:41,066
all at once. So hearing from you all and others, I think we're just going to try

961
00:59:41,100 --> 00:59:42,500
and take it in more digestible chunks.

962
00:59:42,667 --> 00:59:45,100
So we're going to be coming in six-month spurts.

963
00:59:47,033 --> 00:59:51,433
The first one is proposed for spring of 2027.

964
00:59:53,333 --> 00:59:55,767
And I'll try to make sure it's on that and the least, but I was wondering if we can

965
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:56,934
get ahead of it now that we know.

966
00:59:57,567 --> 01:00:01,333
So I will share that the fire department has been collecting a variety of chapter

967
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:05,033
eight edits, because this isn't the only thing that our fire chief has been looking

968
01:00:05,100 --> 01:00:06,934
at and needs updating and refinement.

969
01:00:07,266 --> 01:00:11,100
Like many of our chapters, it's so old and needs to be refreshed.

970
01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:16,333
So I know they're working on a bunch of other stuff, and this has been something

971
01:00:16,367 --> 01:00:20,400
that I've identified that needs to be discussed when they amend chapter eight.

972
01:00:20,467 --> 01:00:22,667
This goes back more than a year or two.

973
01:00:24,567 --> 01:00:27,467
I think what's part of this is that the fire department is looking at all these

974
01:00:27,533 --> 01:00:30,934
other edits and this is one of the things, and they're not yet ready for all of

975
01:00:30,967 --> 01:00:35,233
those edits. But to your point, Jeff, maybe this one needs to be taken out of turn

976
01:00:35,467 --> 01:00:38,533
or just sort of take it, like we've been doing with miscellaneous amendments, take

977
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:43,200
a few at a time. Get progress incrementally rather than wait for the whole big

978
01:00:43,266 --> 01:00:43,834
perfect thing.

979
01:00:44,467 --> 01:00:46,066
Does anybody here agree with me on that one?

980
01:00:47,433 --> 01:00:47,433
No?

981
01:00:47,500 --> 01:00:52,667
I think it's the sort of thing we're leaning on your city council person is going

982
01:00:52,700 --> 01:00:55,467
to maybe move it in a direction.

983
01:00:56,834 --> 01:00:59,567
Has this issue been brought up by developers in the past?

984
01:01:02,166 --> 01:01:02,433
Yes.

985
01:01:04,433 --> 01:01:07,600
Which is, again, why I brought it up previously.

986
01:01:10,900 --> 01:01:12,467
I think they should know the better, you know?

987
01:01:14,734 --> 01:01:19,000
So, as I said, I think we're meeting a week from now or so

988
01:01:20,934 --> 01:01:24,800
to get into it and see the status. My main question is to see if we can pull this

989
01:01:24,900 --> 01:01:29,133
out and have it be its own thing and schedule some time with council on it, whether

990
01:01:29,166 --> 01:01:32,367
that's within the spring session or even earlier than that.

991
01:01:33,066 --> 01:01:35,634
Again, and this is the fire department's ordinance,

992
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:40,767
or at least the one that they administer most closely.

993
01:01:40,834 --> 01:01:42,533
So it's the council's ordinance, obviously.

994
01:01:43,834 --> 01:01:45,800
We need to have those meetings to figure out where they're at.

995
01:01:49,567 --> 01:01:53,166
Thanks for bringing it up, Jeff. Anything else?

996
01:01:57,500 --> 01:01:59,467
All right. Should we take up adjournment?

997
01:02:01,100 --> 01:02:01,800
Move to adjourn.

998
01:02:02,166 --> 01:02:05,934
Second. All right. We're adjourned. Thank you. Thanks.

999
01:02:30,166 --> 01:02:31,834
You came in really good.