1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:12,320 Um, I want to give it just a minute, few 2 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:15,599 minute or two more because Brian's supposed to join. 3 00:00:14,559 --> 00:00:21,080 » Oh, okay. >> And he's he's got the majority of the 4 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:21,080 agenda. 5 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:34,760 He confirmed with me yesterday that he would join. You might have seen he did a 6 00:00:29,119 --> 00:00:34,760 flurry of emails to everybody today. 7 00:00:40,879 --> 00:00:45,000 Oh, speaking of 8 00:00:46,879 --> 00:00:51,920 » Hi, Brian. >> Hey, Chuck. Sorry about that. I had to 9 00:00:50,160 --> 00:01:00,480 redownload the app here on my cell phone. How are you? 10 00:00:53,199 --> 00:01:05,760 » Oh, okay. Another Zoom Zoom issue. >> James, how are you? 11 00:01:02,399 --> 00:01:09,960 » Doing fine, thank you. Jim works. >> Good. Good, Jim. Thank you. 12 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:17,159 » All right. So, let's see. We don't have Mr. Overheiser, looks like, 13 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,400 and we don't have Mr. 14 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,515 We'll [clears throat] 15 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:35,631 put that up in case it joins. All right, let's uh we can get started. 16 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,651 It's 7:03. [clears throat and cough] 17 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:46,560 First order of business is we have um the meeting minutes from last last month 18 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:51,720 and the month before. Can I have a motion to approve both of 19 00:01:48,479 --> 00:01:51,720 those minutes? 20 00:01:52,079 --> 00:01:57,799 » So moved. second. 21 00:01:59,439 --> 00:02:02,520 All right. 22 00:02:03,439 --> 00:02:11,680 Um, so way I've organized these notes uh 23 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:18,319 this this month was, you know, I put all the deep related work issues together 24 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:22,400 and then um interconnection and then, you know, some of the other issues that 25 00:02:20,319 --> 00:02:28,879 are coming along. But um 26 00:02:25,599 --> 00:02:33,680 um Brian sent around an email earlier. Uh I've integrated that into here. Um 27 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:39,760 but there's a few other additional questions I wanted to 28 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:42,400 » ask um while you're here, Brian. I'm not holding out much hope for this, 29 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:48,959 but >> did any additional doc documents surface 30 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:53,280 in from the deep file room? Uh, >> you know, perhaps our asbuilt diagram or 31 00:02:51,200 --> 00:03:00,160 anything like that? >> No, not yet. 32 00:02:55,519 --> 00:03:04,159 And um part of the notes there indicated that we're going to be working with 33 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:09,120 Lorero engineers and part of the initial scope there will 34 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:14,480 be geotechnical analysis. So, we'll understand what the existing 35 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:20,560 cap conditions look like and formulate a plan and work with Deep on that plan. 36 00:03:17,519 --> 00:03:25,760 Um, all in all, I I think we'll really be able to have something submitted to 37 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:32,560 Deep by the end of July, which would be a a pretty good effort right now based 38 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:37,440 on where we are. um which gets us into early next year for an approval from 39 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:41,599 Deep Q1 on their six-month timeline. >> Right. 40 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:45,680 » So that that'd be a that'd be a pretty good result based on what we're seeing 41 00:03:42,799 --> 00:03:50,480 from deep right now to be honest. >> And we had a fair amount of discussion 42 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:55,519 about that in our last ATF meeting. And um the question came up, you know, what 43 00:03:52,799 --> 00:03:59,680 can we as a task force or a town do to try 44 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:06,239 um accelerate the timeline? Yeah. So, that's a great question. Um, I 45 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:12,400 think it starts with us getting the full package submitted to Deep. Then from 46 00:04:09,519 --> 00:04:17,440 there, I think advoc advocacy from the town could certainly help. But until we 47 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:22,079 have a package submitted and received by Deep, um, you know, there's no need in 48 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:26,560 really trying to, uh, push them along or or rush them, you 49 00:04:24,479 --> 00:04:30,720 know. So I think once we have something submitted and obviously we'll keep you 50 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:34,080 guys in the loop every step of the way. I think from there some outreach from 51 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:38,479 the task force to the town would be good for sure. 52 00:04:35,759 --> 00:04:43,199 » So who would and what what form would that take? 53 00:04:41,199 --> 00:04:47,840 » Could be as simple as emails to start. Um and I will pull those individuals 54 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:55,360 their contact information off of the email. And you got that email 55 00:04:51,280 --> 00:05:01,280 too from Darren Wright I believe at deep opd office of permit planning 56 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:06,240 development where he summarized who was on the call and and what their roles 57 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:13,000 were. It's the solid waste division that we submit the post closure use 58 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,000 authorization to. 59 00:05:15,919 --> 00:05:25,440 We were even thinking of uh you know contacting our our state representative. 60 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:31,360 Um I don't know if they anything like that is have you seen anything like that 61 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:37,199 proven prove effective in the past? >> It could be. Yeah, it could be. It it 62 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:42,160 kind of just depends on, you know, if um if that representative has any 63 00:05:39,039 --> 00:05:46,240 relationship with deputy commissioners at Deep or anyone at Deep and 64 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:50,080 management, you know, to kind of just let them know, hey, you know, we're this 65 00:05:47,840 --> 00:05:54,960 is a project for the town and we're trying to keep it on track and when 66 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:57,360 we're on our pre-application call, Deep mentioned they were underst staffed and 67 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,600 it's going to take longer than anticipated. So, we're just trying to 68 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:05,360 understand how to move that along. Um, the other thing, the other change that's 69 00:06:03,919 --> 00:06:10,240 going on, not sure if you guys have seen it, um, the deep commissioner is 70 00:06:08,639 --> 00:06:17,919 stepping down at the end of this month and Emma Simino is stepping in as acting 71 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:22,800 commissioner appointed by the governor. So, that's Katie Dykes who is stepping 72 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:26,319 down at the end of June and Emma Samino stepping into that active commissioner 73 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:30,319 role. Um, you know, we'll see. We'll we'll see 74 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:35,360 what that brings. I'm sure she's going to want to kind of make a statement and 75 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:40,560 maybe things will go smoother than we expect, right? What better than as a new 76 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:46,319 commissioner to start pushing out permits on time or ahead of schedule? I 77 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:51,680 mean, I know that's optimistic, but that's how I'd think about it at least. 78 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:56,400 So you're saying if we if we get something into deep by July and 79 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:59,599 everything goes smoothly, we're looking at possibly January for an answer from 80 00:06:58,479 --> 00:07:04,560 them. >> Correct. Yeah. On the on the on the 81 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:11,880 postclosure use authorization permit. And that's feedback directly from that 82 00:07:07,039 --> 00:07:11,880 department at deep in our preapp call. 83 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:18,080 » All right. Stepping back a step. Is there anything that you need from us to 84 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:23,840 get make sure we get the thing in by July? Is there anything any 85 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:28,479 » Sorry, Tom, I cut you off. >> No, you heard the question. 86 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:32,240 » Yeah, so not necessarily. Uh really at this point, the ball's in our court. 87 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:36,400 Like I said, we're going to be working with Lorero engineers to put together 88 00:07:34,639 --> 00:07:41,440 the plan set that gets submitted to Deep. We just did this with them for the 89 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:45,440 Planeville landfill and we just did about five others with a couple of other 90 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:49,440 engineering firms. So, we have a good idea of what Deep's looking for right 91 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:56,759 now. So, getting that package together is again squarely within our court and 92 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,759 something we're working on right now. 93 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:04,720 » And just just remind me again so we have it done. [clears throat] You're 94 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:12,160 expecting to put in the package by when? >> By the end of July. Yeah. [snorts] 95 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:15,360 » Yeah. So, let's see. I think I had uh I had that in the notes there. Number 96 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,400 three. >> Yeah. 97 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:23,240 » Committed by the end of July. Yep. >> I think I put it down below. Um 98 00:08:23,599 --> 00:08:29,360 » and then >> Sorry. Go ahead. 99 00:08:27,199 --> 00:08:36,800 » You're going to be using the rail then for um the engineer for all aspects of 100 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:40,560 this uh project. coming at least within their scope 101 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:44,240 » for for civil. Yeah, they they don't do electrical. We'll use a different 102 00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:47,680 engineer for electrical. Pure power engineering. 103 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:51,760 Pretty big firm. We've done a ton of work with them over the years. Again, 104 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:55,920 these these projects are pretty standard on the electrical side of things, 105 00:08:54,000 --> 00:09:02,080 especially with what we've done lately. So, no real surprises anticipated on the 106 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:07,760 electrical side. Uh, in my last update I mentioned that we had an email from from 107 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:13,760 Eversource indicating that the impact study was fine, no upgrades. We don't 108 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:18,560 yet have final costs or an interconnection agreement, but that's 109 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:24,080 the next step in what we'd expect from them to receive. 110 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:28,480 Uh, that's a positive update. I've seen a lot of wacky things from Eversource 111 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:33,360 lately when it comes to costs and project impacts. So, that's a pretty 112 00:09:30,959 --> 00:09:39,120 good that's a pretty good update there. Um, and then on the local side, 113 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:45,279 obviously, we'll start that right around when we submit to deep, that'll usually 114 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:49,040 be completed before DEP is completed. And then it's it's really you're 115 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,959 effectively, you know, if you get your approval, you know, you're approved 116 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:57,519 contingent upon receiving your permit from DEP because, you know, we could get 117 00:09:54,880 --> 00:10:01,440 our uh approval from planning and zoning as the accessory use. Um, but then 118 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:06,959 obviously we can't go and build anything until Deep says we can. So that'll 119 00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:10,080 happen in the interim while we sort things out with DEP and get the 120 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:13,440 postclosure authorization permit from them. 121 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:19,440 » But does that mean the AS bill will be done by uh the end of July? 122 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:23,839 » No. So we'll have a permit set we'll have a permit set drawing done by the 123 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:29,279 end of July. It's typically like a 30% plan set that you use for permit 124 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:33,839 applications. you know, if if planning and zoning in and deep is okay with it, 125 00:10:30,959 --> 00:10:38,320 then we'll move straight to 90s uh and then finals probably around the end of 126 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:44,640 the year and go and get building electrical permits from the town for 127 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:49,519 with construction sets and go to there. >> I should have asked that differently. 128 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:57,279 And I'm at the asbuilt diagram for the um closure of the of the land that 129 00:10:54,000 --> 00:11:02,160 recreate. Yeah, it it could be. Um I think it could play out a couple 130 00:10:58,399 --> 00:11:06,560 different ways. If we can find what we are looking for and things are 131 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:12,000 available, that can that can certainly occur on a much quicker and smoother 132 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:16,720 time frame. Um but if we submit a package to deep and they ask for more 133 00:11:14,079 --> 00:11:21,360 information and more testing, then we have to we have to kind of do that while 134 00:11:19,279 --> 00:11:25,040 we're in that process. And that's something they asked of us recently on a 135 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:31,040 geotechnical side of things as it relates to settling and looking for like 136 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:36,320 a different [clears throat] boring in a different location of a landfill just 137 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:40,880 depending on what it was being used for prior. U so it's it's really an 138 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:45,000 open-ended answer because we have to see how deep comes back to us. 139 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:57,600 » Okay. So Brian, this is Jim, just to confirm, you've got a system impact 140 00:11:54,320 --> 00:12:02,640 study from Eversource. Then >> we do. Yeah. So we we did that study and 141 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:09,040 we have so I should say we have an email indication from them that we can install 142 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:13,120 the system with just a new service and a recloser 143 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:16,399 » and avoid like major system upgrades. Yeah, 144 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:20,480 » we don't yet have a final study report or an interconnection agreement 145 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:24,560 » that'll come. We just we'll just continually beg uh we'll continually, 146 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,600 you know, reach out to Eversource asking for that information. Once we get it, 147 00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:32,160 we'll share it with you. >> You don't have the facility study yet 148 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:36,880 that identifies um the uh requirements for 149 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:41,839 interconnection. >> Yeah. So, we'll probably won't have to 150 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:45,680 do a facility study here simply because we passed C because we passed the impact 151 00:12:44,079 --> 00:12:50,560 study. >> Typically, you don't. Typically, 152 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:56,720 Eversource does both a system impact study and a facility study. The system 153 00:12:54,480 --> 00:13:04,480 impact study um studies the in this case distribution 154 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:10,639 system um electrically. The facility study is more specific as it relates to 155 00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:14,320 the facilities required to to interconnect and your point of 156 00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:17,760 interconnection. >> Yeah. 157 00:13:16,079 --> 00:13:24,000 » By eversource. >> Yeah. And what we've seen lately is that 158 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:27,760 on projects like this interconnecting to a good three-phase circuit, 159 00:13:25,839 --> 00:13:30,720 » we don't we they haven't required a facility study. 160 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:34,880 » Oh, okay. You know, for example, I've done large overbuilds before of like a 161 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:41,600 mile plus and we've had to do a facility study so that they can get cost down to 162 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:44,320 » what they call like a plus or minus 25% range. 163 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,519 » Um, so we do we definitely don't anticipate them requiring a facility 164 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,920 study on this. >> Okay. 165 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:54,720 » But again, we don't have that final result, the final report yet. Got it. 166 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:58,160 » Or the or the agreement. As soon as we get it, we'll, you know, send it to you 167 00:13:56,399 --> 00:14:00,800 guys so you have a copy obviously. >> Right. 168 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,160 Okay. 169 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:20,399 Oh, I think I did. So, yeah. So, just to reiterate, you've sent 170 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:27,519 the lease or the anticipated timeline is um permitting an approval Q1 of 2027. 171 00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:35,880 He'd start construction in Q2 of 2027 and complete in Q3 2027 if everything 172 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,880 goes smoothly. 173 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,320 [snorts] >> Yeah. Yeah. That that's that's our you 174 00:14:38,959 --> 00:14:44,480 know that's a high level schedule right now. And I said a couple action items 175 00:14:42,079 --> 00:14:49,279 we're working on and what I'll get for the next meeting is like a more detailed 176 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:54,000 uh development schedule or permitting schedule. It just kind of outlines our 177 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:57,440 local and state approvals. Then we can move and get a construction schedule 178 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:01,839 which kind of focuses on site mobilization, array construction 179 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:08,560 starting with foundations, racking modules, inverters, then electrical. Um, 180 00:15:04,959 --> 00:15:14,320 and in that we'll include our, you know, like our mobilization plan or staging 181 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:19,440 and parking plan that we'll work on with Matt Turnowski, make sure he's 182 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:23,519 comfortable with it. Um what'll what'll be included in that is like number of 183 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:29,040 anticipated deliveries uh daily vehicles on site during certain 184 00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:33,360 during certain construction activities because like you know it'll there won't 185 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:38,240 be a lot of guys on site for the foundations install which is like 186 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:41,920 concrete block large block gets put down then we have to build the racking mount 187 00:15:39,839 --> 00:15:46,079 the wire mount the modules and wire we'll have more we'll have more 188 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:50,560 individual manpower on site and less big machines by At that point, all the 189 00:15:48,399 --> 00:15:54,639 deliveries will have been made. So, we'll just make sure we, you know, we 190 00:15:52,399 --> 00:15:59,120 adequately kind of demonstrate that to Matt, make sure he's comfortable with 191 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:04,680 how we're approaching it and where guys will park and and enter and exit and all 192 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,680 that. 193 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:13,680 And I mentioned this to Brian, but the time I bumped into um Jack Kelly at the 194 00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:19,279 Strawberry Festival, he came up and talked to me and uh 195 00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:23,839 you know, he mentioned uh the solar project and asked me if Matt had been to 196 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:28,399 any of the meetings. I said no. But um he's still concern concerned about the 197 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:32,079 road and getting equipment in there and interfering with transfer station 198 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:35,279 operations. You know, I told him we were 199 00:16:33,199 --> 00:16:40,160 entertaining the thought of maybe doing it on on a Monday when the 200 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:46,480 transportation is closed, at least for a lot of the deliveries if we can. 201 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:50,560 Um, and he seemed a little bit more relaxed about it when I mentioned that, 202 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:55,920 but it's still something that may come up. But have you gotten more feedback 203 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:59,040 from him in the board of finance meetings? 204 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,839 » I haven't had a board of finance finance meeting. I ran into him at the 205 00:17:00,079 --> 00:17:07,360 strawberry festival, too, but I didn't talk to him at all about that. 206 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:13,039 » Um, a board of finance meeting is I don't it's uh um a week maybe next 207 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:16,079 Monday. >> No, another two weeks from Monday, I 208 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:19,280 think. >> Okay. 209 00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:23,280 » And then you guys will be off for two months. 210 00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:28,880 » Yeah, then we're off for two months. So I um 211 00:17:25,919 --> 00:17:33,280 I I just think the main thing his main concern always is to make sure that 212 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:37,360 Brian interfaces to our public works guys, 213 00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:43,360 right? And so that he's going to always mimic whatever public works says. Okay. 214 00:17:39,919 --> 00:17:47,280 So that's that, you know, you know, I think I stressed that last time, Brian, 215 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:52,160 is that it's it's very important that every step of the way we kind of go 216 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:55,760 overboard to interface with public works about how this is all going to work, 217 00:17:54,080 --> 00:18:01,280 right? >> Yeah, absolutely. So I think that'll, 218 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:05,120 you know, just just as background here, we had um a wetland delineation 219 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:09,360 completed a couple weeks back. We made sure we gave Matt heads up that he that 220 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,559 we had a guy on site. I did the same thing today. We'll have a surveyor on 221 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:17,440 property tomorrow or the next day to get the boundary done. And then I think once 222 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:22,799 we have these data points here on like deliveries, manpower on site, you know, 223 00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:25,919 site activation and mobilization, I think I'll I'll reach out to Matt in the 224 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:31,919 next probably in the next two to three weeks and set up a meeting with him uh 225 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:35,760 and just like introduce that whole plan. and then, you know, we'll just we'll 226 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:39,600 we'll talk about it and make sure we end up with something that that works for 227 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:44,000 him in public works. So, that's that's definitely something that, you know, 228 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:46,400 we'll be able to accommodate him on. Um, like I said, I I think I like I 229 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:52,160 mentioned before, maybe even that board of finance meeting. Uh, almost every one 230 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:56,880 of the landfills we've built is also at the town transfer station. So, to date, 231 00:18:54,320 --> 00:19:02,480 we haven't had any issues with traffic jams or being in the way or or holding 232 00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:05,919 up anything really of substance. So, um, you know, okay, 233 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:10,200 » we'll definitely work through that with Matt. 234 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,200 » Okay. 235 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:20,000 » Okay. Um, so remind me again, when does our lease 236 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:25,600 option uh expire? >> So, uh, June 25th. 237 00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:31,120 And, um, last week I traded a couple emails with attorney Kaylin. Today I 238 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:37,200 sent uh an extension around to first selectman O'Neal. Attorney Kalin was on 239 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:41,679 that uh email. So I'll just keep I'll just keep close eye on it. Uh plan to 240 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:45,600 touch base with the first selectman probably by the end of the week and uh 241 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:50,400 just see where where he's at with the town attorney um and go from there. 242 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:55,520 » Just keep in mind that the end of the week is Thursday, not Friday. 243 00:19:52,559 --> 00:19:58,720 » That's right. Thank you. Yep. [laughter] No, thank you. because I that happens to 244 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,938 me all the time. I'll slip and it's Friday morning and 245 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,240 » I'll call a town hall and that's it. [laughter] 246 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:08,080 » So >> yeah. 247 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:13,760 Is there any difference in the language of the lease extension option than there 248 00:20:11,679 --> 00:20:20,320 was in the first go round? So, uh, the lease itself is more robust, 249 00:20:17,679 --> 00:20:27,200 but the commercial terms are really the same. Uh, decommissioning 250 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:30,880 term and and, uh, and and payment, option period, due diligence period, 251 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:37,039 contingency period, the whole nine yards. So, it's it's really just a more 252 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:42,559 robust agreement meant to capture the active term of the lease, but it really 253 00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:47,679 mimics that option. Oh, no. I'm sorry. I was just clarifying 254 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:51,919 if this second lease option extension is any different than the lease option that 255 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:56,559 was originally signed. >> Oh, no, no. It's So, the extension is is 256 00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:01,600 something that was built into the lease option itself, right? It kind of gives 257 00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:07,360 us the ability just to extend to continue the development of the project 258 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:12,559 while we negotiate and sign the lease so that you know we're not stuck without 259 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:15,679 the option to enter into a lease while we're working on the permitting and 260 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,679 interconnection. >> Okay. 261 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:27,679 Well, I mean, we can see we can try and help 262 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:30,880 keep monitor monitor that, but um you know, you'll have to take primary 263 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:35,520 responsibility for it. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, that's no problem. Um 264 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:40,320 obviously, Chuck, you're CC that email. If you want me to add anyone else in, I 265 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:44,000 could do that, too. U but obviously, we'll make sure you guys are in the loop 266 00:21:41,919 --> 00:21:49,415 and I'll stay on top of it. >> Yeah. 267 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,415 All right. [clears throat] 268 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:59,039 Um, you know, I have included links to all the materials that we gathered at 269 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:04,640 the outreach session in case you need them for your package 270 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,760 with a planning commission. >> No, thank you. That'll be helpful. Uh, 271 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,600 definitely part of our application package will be summarizing outreach 272 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,400 work to date uh and some of the feedback from those meetings, what kind of 273 00:22:13,039 --> 00:22:18,080 questions were asked and how do we answer them, etc. So, I'll definitely 274 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:22,240 pull from that material and we'll be able to capture capture that in our 275 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:27,760 application. >> And then all of this stuff was from your 276 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:32,080 email, right? Um that is being done in terms of getting the 277 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:37,280 package together. >> Yep. Yeah. Perfect. Right. So it's the 278 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:43,679 the the steps are kind of survey wetlands, create that base map, layer in 279 00:22:39,919 --> 00:22:49,280 the civil plan, uh work with Lorero, get the site investigations done. Uh with 280 00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:53,760 that plan, you know, we needed the boundary and wetlands done in order to 281 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:57,600 get, you know, the proper uh survey and information to submit to planning and 282 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,960 zoning. And that'll also cover what we'll need to do for the engineering 283 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:04,880 package. So those are just two two critical first steps and those will be 284 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:09,799 completed by the end of this week. So we'll have the base map and surveys 285 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,799 ready to go. 286 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:17,679 I mean, when we talked with Jordan a while ago, you know, he he just had this 287 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:21,360 laundry list of things including maintenance plans, you know, how 288 00:23:19,919 --> 00:23:26,320 environmental concerns will be addressed, wildlife mobility, 289 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:31,760 any screening along the property line and so on of things he mentioned. But, 290 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:35,440 um, >> have you talked to him at all about 291 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:40,799 anything else that the package should should include? 292 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:45,520 No, not not since we had that call. Uh the end of May now. Um and what he said 293 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:49,520 was like once you get survey and your base map done, if I had any questions, 294 00:23:47,679 --> 00:23:53,760 reach back out and we'll kind of just nail down what the full application 295 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:59,039 package will look like. So we'll do that for sure and just make sure we have all 296 00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:02,000 the eyes dotted and tees crossed. Uh but we've got all the we've got all the 297 00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:06,080 operations and maintenance plans, decommissioning plans, everything that 298 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,400 goes along to supplement an application like this. 299 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:18,640 » And you know, they also requested that the package gets to them three weeks in 300 00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:23,760 advance. Um and the next meeting their their next meeting will be July 21st 301 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:28,720 or the one that we're targeting will be July 21st. 302 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:33,120 Okay. That that could be a little tight. 303 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:38,480 » Yeah, that that could be a little tight. Um I'll try to get a better schedule of 304 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:44,957 anticipated completion and then let you know 305 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,957 where we think we'll end up. [snorts] 306 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:54,559 But I think you said given the deep timelines uh we can be even if we miss 307 00:24:51,360 --> 00:25:01,039 the July we'll still be there's not any impact to the schedule. uh if we have to 308 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:04,400 go for the August approval or even September, right? 309 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:08,080 » Yeah, that's right. Because our keep in mind our our gating item on permitting 310 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:12,480 is definitely going to be that deep approval. 311 00:25:09,919 --> 00:25:16,000 So, the goal obviously is just get planning and zoning done before you get 312 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:20,640 the deep permit. And you know, ideally, I think we'll have planning and zoning 313 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:23,640 done by fall at the latest. Okay. 314 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,600 Um 315 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:36,240 » and um yeah, the accessory use is the other 316 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:40,000 issue with the planning commission. I >> Well, I don't I don't think that's an 317 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:46,159 issue anymore, at least not after the conversation we had with Jordan. uh his 318 00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:52,240 his goal was to apply as an accessory use because the the solar is secondary 319 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:56,559 to the primary use of the land which is which is landfill right in the transfer 320 00:25:54,400 --> 00:26:01,279 station. So that was his goal and that'll be what we're going to be 321 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:05,279 focused on. If something changes then obviously we'll have to deal with it and 322 00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:09,880 take it in stride. Um but that's that's the plan right now is accessory use. 323 00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:20,640 So is that what planning and zoning needs for them to approve it is the 324 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:23,039 change in accessories use? >> Yes. 325 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:26,880 » Or is that what So it's not necessarily a deep requirement. It's a requirement 326 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:32,640 from from us. >> Correct. Yeah. So this is strictly town 327 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:37,360 land use where it's not necessarily a change. It's more so 328 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:41,600 » like an update to or something or >> Well, it's just our land use permit. So, 329 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:45,279 if this was just a raw piece of land like a green field, then if we didn't 330 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:49,039 have the proper zoning, then we'd have to seek a zone change or a text 331 00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:53,520 amendment or something to that effect. But because there's a primary use here 332 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:58,400 already, that is the landfill. And this project is an accessory to that, meaning 333 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:02,000 the purpose of the land is not to host solar. The purpose is the land is for 334 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:06,559 the landfill. That's why we're taking the the permitting approach as an 335 00:27:03,679 --> 00:27:09,559 accessory use rather than like a primary use. 336 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:20,840 which would avoid perhaps a likely delay to try and get the zoning changed. 337 00:27:16,799 --> 00:27:20,840 » Isn't that the right interpretation? 338 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:32,480 » Yeah. No, that that's that's correct, Chuck. Yeah. Um and in you know in some 339 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:39,200 cases um you might not even have code like 340 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:44,000 zoning code written for solar. So that's that's when it would get really tricky. 341 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:48,600 Um, that's why accessory uses is definitely the best path to take. 342 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:56,799 And I, you know, thinking about it because I've done a few of these, 343 00:27:55,120 --> 00:28:00,399 anything could happen, but I don't see why planning and zoning would have an 344 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:04,320 issue with that. You know, like we're not changing the primary use of that 345 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:09,200 property. So, it is a pretty straightforward argument where 346 00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:14,799 the primary use of that land is always going to be the landfill, right? until 347 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:21,200 that changes and everything is excavated and removed if that ever happens. But um 348 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:26,640 you know we are truly an accessory to the to the use here. So 349 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:31,520 it's not a stretch is a long-winded way of saying this is this is not a stretch 350 00:28:28,799 --> 00:28:35,600 asking for this. >> But they it hasn't formally been given 351 00:28:33,679 --> 00:28:37,840 to the planning and zoning people yet. You're still 352 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:44,000 » That's correct. Yeah. >> Okay. And you anticipate this by 353 00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:49,520 the end of the week next week? >> No, we're sorry. We're anticipating a 354 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:53,600 submission in July. Um, and depending on if we get it to them soon enough before 355 00:28:52,159 --> 00:28:58,080 their meeting, maybe they'll be able to take it up in July. If we're too late, 356 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,440 then it'll kick to August or September if they don't have an August meeting. 357 00:28:59,679 --> 00:29:05,279 Yeah. >> Okay. 358 00:29:02,159 --> 00:29:08,720 » Yep. But the accessory use was the recommendation of Jordan Marcino after 359 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:12,440 speaking with him. who's the town's land use administrator. 360 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,360 » Okay. 361 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,600 » All right. 362 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:29,919 » Um I want to move on to the land lease agreement. Um there were some questions 363 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:33,760 that I had in reading through it. Um, 364 00:29:31,919 --> 00:29:39,279 you know, there's this language in here about capping 365 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:47,279 the um what's going to be set aside the 10 cents per watt DC of installed 366 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:51,440 capacity of the solar array. And um I know talking to Dan Colton, our finance 367 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:55,279 director, he picked up that the array is a little bit smaller than the array that 368 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,880 was originally in some of the presentations. So that the revenue is a 369 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:03,600 little bit or that amount is a little bit lower but 370 00:30:01,279 --> 00:30:08,559 um but you know I this means that there 371 00:30:06,399 --> 00:30:15,919 would be an upper limit of seven roughly $72,000 that are set aside for the de 372 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:21,200 decomi de decommissioning right I am interpreting that correctly. Yeah. No, 373 00:30:18,399 --> 00:30:27,840 that that's correct. Yeah. Um and on the final system size, so since we don't 374 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:33,200 have the full engineered plan yet, that system size is not final, right? Uh we 375 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:38,720 could be able to get all the way back up to or even just a little above what we 376 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:43,039 had originally proposed. Uh we obviously need to just kind of do the permit set 377 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:48,720 engineering, make sure the space and the contours and everything are as are as 378 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:53,760 designed. So um that system size is not final yet. We'll get there through the 379 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:58,080 permits at engineering. >> Okay. 380 00:30:55,919 --> 00:31:04,880 » So I'm trying to understand how we you know how this ends up being um protected 381 00:31:01,919 --> 00:31:10,240 from inflation over time. Um there's this whole timing of various options. 382 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:16,399 some of them not, you know, we being that set aides aren't being even done 383 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:21,039 until what 10 or 15 years from now um under the proposal. 384 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:28,480 But how do we you know how how's this amount end up being adjusted for what 385 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:34,240 the future dollars will be? So, we're we're setting that limit now 386 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:41,679 in hopes of trying to have a clear picture of the full economic situation 387 00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:47,840 of the project. And that number doesn't include any scrap value added in. 388 00:31:45,919 --> 00:31:53,519 Obviously, there's galvanized steel, there's copper, uh aluminum frames on 389 00:31:50,480 --> 00:32:00,240 the modules. It gives no credit to what any of that value is for the array 390 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:04,960 itself. U so that's purely like a just a removal cost and these kinds of projects 391 00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:10,559 you know we don't have any buried conduit so what we see drive up like 392 00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:15,360 removal or decommissioning costs on other ground mounts is excavation to get 393 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:22,480 conduits out here everything is surface mounted so the the anticipation of cost 394 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:26,399 is like I should say more predictable than other projects where you know we're 395 00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:31,039 doing earth work to remove things that were installed Here we don't have that. 396 00:32:28,399 --> 00:32:34,039 So the costs are are definitely more stable. 397 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:45,039 » But this $72,000 is this in today's dollars or in dollars 398 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:47,840 from some point in time in the future. 399 00:32:45,679 --> 00:32:54,399 » Oh, that that would be in today's terms. So $72,000 just based on the final 400 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:58,720 system size, the 10 cents a watt. >> Yeah, that's what I thought. So then is 401 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:02,159 there an inflation adjustment that gets set year-over-year or on a regular 402 00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:09,312 schedule? >> Not as it's written in now. No. 403 00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:09,312 » Should it [laughter] 404 00:33:11,679 --> 00:33:16,240 if that's a position of the town, you know, we'll certainly take it up. Yeah, 405 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:21,360 for sure. >> I mean, do other towns have an inflation 406 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:26,799 thing that they upgrade, you know, update every couple of years? 407 00:33:24,159 --> 00:33:29,760 » Not. No, not on this. >> Okay, 408 00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:35,440 » this is a this is a pretty uh this language is pretty standard across 409 00:33:32,399 --> 00:33:39,399 the majority of our leases uh especially those of landfills. 410 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:51,200 I think some I think some towns have looked at the landfill project as like a 411 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:57,799 we just keep it running as long as possible uh because because we're not 412 00:33:53,519 --> 00:33:57,799 doing anything else with it really. 413 00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:07,120 » Have you has your company had a lot of um experience in decommissioning? 414 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:12,560 Like I mean this is is is this a best guess or you know how 415 00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:19,760 No. So what we do obviously we know the cost to install the project and 416 00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:25,119 construct it to a certain specification right that would meet final inspections 417 00:34:22,079 --> 00:34:29,599 and independent engineer evaluation. Um so then we go and get quotes and say 418 00:34:27,839 --> 00:34:33,200 what would you charge to just rip this whole thing down? 419 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:38,320 » Right. You know we're not just taking a wrecking ball to it but it's 420 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:43,679 » Yeah. Yeah. It's it's deconstruction rather than construction. So, it's 421 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:50,000 deenergized. You don't need electricians to take everything apart, right? It's 422 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:57,520 just regular laborers taking it apart. >> Um on like a on effectively just like a 423 00:34:53,839 --> 00:35:02,240 labor manhour perspective. um some some sort of equipment here to remove the 424 00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:06,160 ballast blocks, but again, no like major earth work or ripping anything out of 425 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:09,920 the ground, for example. >> But but at at this point, your company 426 00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:12,480 hasn't had to decommission anything, have they? 427 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:17,200 » No. No, we haven't had to decommission anything. We've removed rooftop systems 428 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:23,920 and then reinstalled them to have roof work done and re and re- roofs, etc. So, 429 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:27,280 we we've done work like that. Um taking it down is not the issue. putting it 430 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:31,359 back up is because again you're reinstalling 431 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:38,000 » to breakation. Yeah. >> Yeah. 432 00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:47,119 » Hey Brian, this a gimmick. Um long story short, I think you guys are 433 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:53,280 severely light in decom costs 2026. you're in at 72. My estimate, and I 434 00:35:50,560 --> 00:36:01,599 didn't, obviously it's not designed so you can't uh screw it down to the last 435 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:10,160 penny, but I'm in a 3 to 350,000 bucks to pull the thing out in $26. 436 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:15,520 So, we're I I guess it's probably best best to say we think you're 437 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:18,800 significantly light as it relates to your decommissioning costs. 438 00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:22,240 » Okay. >> All right. 439 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:25,520 » Yeah. So, any kind of adjustment, you know, if you want to propose that if 440 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:30,079 that has to go back to the town attorney, uh or you want me to take that 441 00:36:27,839 --> 00:36:35,280 just right now, I'll take that too and and we'll take it back and see what we 442 00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:42,520 can do. Obviously. Yeah. I mean, that's my opinion. 443 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:42,520 » Yeah. No feel about it, but 444 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,920 » yeah. No, like I said, happy to happy to entertain it and try to get to a spot 445 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,599 that >> Yeah. 446 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:54,480 » that works for the town, you know. >> And I, you know, I do think it's 447 00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:58,560 important to have some sort of inflation, you know, probably linked to 448 00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:03,839 the CPI. Um, 449 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:10,300 » I wouldn't Chuck. I mean, Jesus, talk about um crystal balls. Stop playing 450 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:15,400 that stupid effing game and just [clears throat] just identify him as 451 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,400 $26. 452 00:37:18,079 --> 00:37:28,680 You'll get tangled around the axle, I think, if you try to tie it to CPI or 453 00:37:23,839 --> 00:37:28,680 any other damn inflation index. 454 00:37:29,296 --> 00:37:35,359 » [clears throat] >> Well, what's the what what exactly is 455 00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:40,160 the financial consequence of this number, 456 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:46,400 you know? Um, so what it does it the financial consequence of the number is 457 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:51,680 that when we go to decommission, if it costs more, 458 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:56,560 then what happens? So that's on us, right? That's on the 459 00:37:54,720 --> 00:38:02,560 project. the town has no responsibility to decommission 460 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:07,200 um per the lease, right? If if we didn't decommission on time or on 461 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:11,440 schedule, we could be you could take legal action against us. Obviously, the 462 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,640 thought of having the shity bond or the letter of credit in place is that you 463 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:19,839 don't have to go there and you can just go straight to that financial mechanism 464 00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:25,040 uh and handle the removal itself. Now what we run into is obviously the the 465 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:31,680 higher that number is the larger impact it has on the project economics. Uh 466 00:38:27,839 --> 00:38:37,040 obviously our lease rate is is fixed. Our revenue is fixed. Our cost to 467 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:43,200 construct continue to rise at this point outpacing what we have built in for like 468 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:47,119 a two to threeyear inflationary period just in construction costs. But again 469 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:52,640 that's our problem. That's that's kind of what we're seeing as we go to 470 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:58,960 construct projects now that you know we secured revenue contracts on in 2024. Um 471 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:03,680 what we have modeled for like construction cost increase in that 472 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:08,880 24-month period uh has definitely been outpaced by what we're seeing for the 473 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:14,400 actual cost to to build these projects. But again that's an that's an US pro 474 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:23,520 that's a me problem really. >> Right. So, I guess what I'm getting back 475 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:28,880 to is that this 72,000 to me is the kind of 476 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:35,119 secondary insurance for the town if Baragy fails. Is that effectively the 477 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:39,200 the point of the money? >> Yeah. Correct. Right. If we don't abide 478 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:44,800 by the obligations of the lease and remove the array um you know in lie of 479 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:50,320 taking legal action immediately you can call upon that that financial mechanism 480 00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:54,520 I think which we've provided like a shy bond or a letter of credit option. 481 00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:06,560 » Okay. So that the I guess the bottom line is though is that 482 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:11,720 so if all goes to plan, right, 483 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:23,760 it it shouldn't it it shouldn't cost us anything. And the number that the 72,000 484 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:29,920 is really you it it's not like we get the 72,000, you get the 72,000. Correct? 485 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:33,599 if we even need it. >> Yeah. If you even need it, right? 486 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:38,960 » Yeah. So, again, it's a it's a shy bond. Uh we'll pay a premium on it on a bond 487 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:43,200 valium on the bond value to carry that bond per the contract. Um and then 488 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:47,280 obviously if it needs to be called upon, it's it's called upon, but the ideal 489 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:51,040 situation is that it is never called upon. 490 00:40:49,359 --> 00:40:59,839 » Okay. And then the last bit I'm trying to get the bond value. So, you know, one 491 00:40:56,079 --> 00:41:04,640 one kind of, you know, um something against inflation, Chuck, usually is 492 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:08,800 this is invested somewhere and pays an interest, then the interest is what's 493 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:12,960 supposed to be offsetting the inflation of some sort. 494 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:19,680 » Yeah, that was my next question. So, um is is that anticipated for this? 495 00:41:17,839 --> 00:41:25,359 » That's a good question. I'd have to confirm with our current bond providers. 496 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:35,640 which I can do. I can get more detail on that. 497 00:41:31,839 --> 00:41:35,640 Let me take that down. 498 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:54,079 Um yeah, because you know in the worst case, right, is there's there's not 499 00:41:51,599 --> 00:41:59,200 money enough and the this doesn't offset the cost, then then the town might end 500 00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:05,440 up with the decision to have the ray not fully decommissioned or 501 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:11,920 bear the financial responsibility for decommissioning it if you know Very were 502 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:15,534 to be out of business or you know for whatever reason couldn't cover the costs 503 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,480 of decommissioning, [clears throat] 504 00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:24,640 » right? So that that's our insurance against that outcome, right? 505 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:30,480 correct our financial insurance against that outcome. 506 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:35,520 » Yeah. So [clears throat] um yeah and we have to come agree as you 507 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:41,480 know from what Jim was saying we have to come to an agreement on what the the 508 00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:41,480 proper amount would be 509 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:49,760 and if it comes in the form of an investment that's what offsets the 510 00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:55,040 inflation chuck in some sense >> right assume assuming that is and and 511 00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:58,640 it's a [clears throat] you know reasonable rate of return 512 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:03,200 Yeah, >> inflation is a hard thing to predict. 513 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:06,319 » No, I know. But I mean, that's that's that's what's supposed to be that's 514 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:10,319 there for, right? >> Yeah. Really, I think it's all we could 515 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:14,560 ask for. >> And let let me go back to Jim's uh point 516 00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:18,720 real quick. Jim, I think you said you were at 350, 517 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:22,480 was it? Or 370? >> No, 3 to 350. 518 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:28,480 » 3 to 350. That's right. >> Yeah. Let me let me take that down. But 519 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:35,839 that does not in that does not um include the salvage value as you point 520 00:43:32,079 --> 00:43:41,119 out Brian and um typically my experience has been although there is value 521 00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:50,560 associated with salvage it's not included when when establishing a bond 522 00:43:46,319 --> 00:43:59,280 amount um to um 523 00:43:53,359 --> 00:44:04,160 protect an owner for the the uh the work to happen, so to speak, the 524 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:07,160 decommissioning to take place. >> Yep. 525 00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:16,079 » And again, to be clear about this, right? So, if all goes well, the shy 526 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:21,560 bond goes back to you, correct? >> Yeah. Yes. Yes. 527 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,560 » Okay. 528 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:30,240 So the cost to you is really time value money I guess for setting aside 529 00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:35,599 something that maybe you could cash in right away or something. 530 00:44:33,839 --> 00:44:40,079 » Yeah. Exactly. Right. Or or the carry cost of the bond for example. 531 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:43,760 » Yeah. Um so the bond the bond premium for the duration 532 00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:49,280 uh or like if it's letter of credit setting aside the letter of credit 533 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:54,240 obviously it's not um the letter the letters of credit are not invested we 534 00:44:51,280 --> 00:45:01,599 have to hold a lot of those for deep um okay so I have um I have feedback from 535 00:44:58,319 --> 00:45:05,079 Jim on 3 to 350 and I'll talk to the team on this 536 00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:12,960 » okay I also got very confused in clause 4K 537 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:19,520 because now you know we're talking about a shity bond or a letter of credit 538 00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:26,400 or other guarantee you know corporate or other guarantee there's like four 539 00:45:21,839 --> 00:45:33,520 different options that you know could be chosen at the tenants's choice but I 540 00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:37,931 mean if this is an agreement it I mean shouldn't the the options be discussed 541 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:40,800 outside of agreement and we pick one and [clears throat] you know everything all 542 00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:45,359 our conversation today has all been around this decommissioning bond which I 543 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:48,359 assume is the shity bond we're referring to. 544 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:55,599 » Yeah. And I think what what we've seen recently, Chuck, is that there's more of 545 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:59,680 a lean towards that shity bond uh just because most people are familiar with 546 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:05,119 it, comfortable with it. So what what we can do and we'd be fine with this is 547 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:10,560 just like red line the other options just out of the agreement so that it's 548 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:16,319 just strictly the the shity bond. Again we're we're trying to create a situation 549 00:46:12,319 --> 00:46:22,400 in some cases where say for example like uh Very gets acquired by Next Era right 550 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:26,640 in five years like Next Era just bought Dominion. Um, would a parent guarantee 551 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:32,960 from next error be sufficient for removal of the array? Some people might 552 00:46:29,119 --> 00:46:39,502 say yes, others no. >> But yeah, sure. I I understand. But how 553 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:44,560 how would that operate in a [clears throat] in in a an agreement 554 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:48,319 that we're signing today? I mean, there are four options, but we we would have 555 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:52,720 to pick an option. yet that 556 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:56,800 » in the clause 4K it's it says we can pick four options but there's no doesn't 557 00:46:55,119 --> 00:47:02,400 seem to be a mechanism for which one that we actually pick 558 00:46:59,839 --> 00:47:06,800 » unless I just didn't read it right >> no no again that's that's trying to give 559 00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:13,680 the tenant or the project in this situation uh like options to to like go 560 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,319 forward with the most cost-effective solution 561 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:21,280 » I think he's just trying to give us flexibility Chuck But you're saying we 562 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:26,560 don't want flexibility. Just give us god damn it. Give us give us an answer. 563 00:47:23,839 --> 00:47:31,680 » And and that's that's fine, right? I'm as you're explaining it, I'm realizing 564 00:47:28,319 --> 00:47:35,760 now, too. Less is more. Um and if the town's comfortable with the shity bond, 565 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:40,560 then that's the way we go, you know, and we just say that now and agree on a 566 00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:44,560 value and we're all good and that's that. 567 00:47:41,599 --> 00:47:48,640 » Well, okay. I I But I'm still getting hung up on it. 568 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:53,839 Let's just say we keep the four options in there. Then 569 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:59,599 how do they get actuated? What one option or another? And how do they do 570 00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:05,520 they potentially change over time? Is I couldn't find any language in there that 571 00:48:01,359 --> 00:48:11,520 kind of outlined the mechanism for how things would be done over time if we 572 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:15,119 were to switch. >> No, the likely outcome is that it 573 00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:19,280 wouldn't change over time, right? one of those four would be chosen and then 574 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:22,400 that's what would be used throughout the duration of the term. 575 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:27,720 » I mean is >> I guess check saying when's it when's it 576 00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:27,720 chosen? 577 00:48:27,839 --> 00:48:37,119 » Um when's it chosen? Let me see here. >> Yeah, because it says written in 578 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:41,920 agreement at as at tenants's choice. So does a tenant get the option to choose 579 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:48,559 at different points in time? >> No. the the time at which it's 580 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:52,800 it's um provided is fixed. I'm just pulling up a copy of this lease right 581 00:48:50,319 --> 00:48:59,920 now. The tenant would have the option to choose 582 00:48:54,559 --> 00:49:04,720 which mechanism of shity is provided, but the time at which it's provided is 583 00:49:01,839 --> 00:49:08,160 fixed. Let me pull that up. It >> should be written right in that section. 584 00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:11,880 » I would have assumed it's at the point we signed the agreement. 585 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:21,680 Well, it's not going to be at the point we sign the agreement because we could 586 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:26,000 sign this lease on July 1 but never end up building the project because of 587 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:30,520 permitting or or other issues. >> Yeah. When sorry when it becomes 588 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,520 operational. 589 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:42,960 So Chuck, I mean, my attitude is keep them all in there until the last 590 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:47,440 possible moment. [laughter] It's just optionality for us, right? I 591 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:54,760 guess unless you think it's going to drive us nuts explaining it to Board of 592 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,760 Finance and everybody else. 593 00:49:56,319 --> 00:50:02,800 » Well, I certainly can't explain it the way it is because I don't understand how 594 00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:08,400 it actually works. Yeah, I' I'd probably 595 00:50:06,079 --> 00:50:14,960 if it was me, I'd probably cut some of that back and stick with just the shity 596 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:18,720 bond in the decommissioning bond format rather than have those other options in 597 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:22,720 there. The more and more we discuss it and, you know, kind of being in that 598 00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:30,000 board of finance meeting a couple months ago and having done a few of these, I 599 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:34,720 think less is more. So if it's if it's cut and dry, it's the shy bond. It's 600 00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:39,440 this value. Um this is a common mechanism that's used in this state and 601 00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:42,000 other states. I think it's pretty straightforward. 602 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:45,839 » Yeah. Well, that that would make it a lot easier to explain for sure. 603 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:48,880 » Yeah. Okay. Let me take that down as a note. 604 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:53,200 » But are we equally protected? Are we, you know, by doing this, are we setting 605 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:56,800 ourselves up for any future >> problem? Chuck, this is this is this is 606 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,920 your problem from working in GE or something. You want to figure the you 607 00:50:58,319 --> 00:51:04,160 want to figure the option of the option of all of these four different things. 608 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:09,680 And should we That's why I was saying if I was just uh playing my max ar, I would 609 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:14,480 just hold the options off to the last possible moment to figure out the max 610 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:18,880 value of which option, right? But if you do that, you're going to drive we're 611 00:51:16,559 --> 00:51:23,599 going to drive oursel nuts, I think. So I feel like we should choose the choose 612 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:29,920 one and and get on with it. Unless you can unless 613 00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:35,440 you know one of the you know shorty but I mean we should I I I like 614 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:40,960 seeing examples so let's let's see what other towns have done I guess. 615 00:51:38,319 --> 00:51:44,640 » Do we need to have a lawyer weigh in on what option would protect us more? 616 00:51:43,359 --> 00:51:48,160 » Yes. >> Yeah. 617 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:51,760 » Absolutely. >> But I I don't know. My sense of these 618 00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:54,800 things is the lawyer don't know. He knows a little bit but doesn't know a 619 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:59,760 lot. It's going to be one of those things where you need a, you know, uh, 620 00:51:57,599 --> 00:52:04,000 complicated options trader with lots of experience and some sort of trading to 621 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:07,680 say this one is marginally more better than the other one. And I I feel like 622 00:52:06,319 --> 00:52:11,680 the amount of time we're going to spend on it, unless we can look at examples, 623 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:16,359 um, the amount of time we're going to spend on it, it's going to drive us 624 00:52:13,359 --> 00:52:16,359 cuckoo. 625 00:52:19,119 --> 00:52:27,680 » Yeah. Because at the end of the day, Tom, um there's no financial impact to 626 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:31,920 the town, right? The the the town's >> Well, there is, but it's a second it's a 627 00:52:29,839 --> 00:52:36,640 secondary option. It's a it's a it's like a it's you know and unfortunately 628 00:52:35,119 --> 00:52:41,520 Chuck and I have spent a lot of our lives looking at this kind of secondary 629 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:45,280 option but >> I don't want to spend this part of my 630 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:49,359 life looking at this this secondary option y 631 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:55,440 » when I I don't really think it matters that much but um but yeah Chuck let's 632 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:59,599 you know if we can find Brian do you have examples so of all these four 633 00:52:57,599 --> 00:53:03,760 things do you have towns and using them or do you is is that almost every town 634 00:53:01,839 --> 00:53:07,680 just used the shity bond. >> So we've what what we've done with other 635 00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:14,480 towns is kind of narrow it down to the shity or the letter of credit. Um 636 00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:21,280 and what we see broadly across the market is more shy bond, right? Like 637 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:27,040 more decommissioning bond type structure that's been developed to satisfy this 638 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:32,960 this requirement across other projects across other states. For example, 639 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:38,400 And a letter of credit would come from a bank or somebody would what would uh 640 00:53:35,839 --> 00:53:43,920 » yeah letter of credit would come from us issued through a bank. Uh right now we 641 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:52,000 issue our letters of credit through Mnt. >> Okay. And Okay. And it would be like 642 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:56,000 financially in the same it would be a similar similar number whatever the 643 00:53:54,559 --> 00:54:01,200 number is going to be. >> Correct. 72,000 or 350,000 to Jim said, 644 00:53:59,667 --> 00:54:04,559 [laughter] you know, whatever the number is going to be. It would be the letter 645 00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:07,760 of credit wouldn't have a different number than the shity bond. Okay, 646 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,359 » that's correct. >> Yeah, 647 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:16,079 » the letter of credit, you know, to Chuck's point, I guess I 648 00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:21,839 have to remind myself about again since I asked about the shy bond. Well, that's 649 00:54:18,319 --> 00:54:27,520 » letter of credit would have to have some sort of adjuster 650 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:30,880 for inflation or something in it to be equivalent if the insurance bond paid 651 00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:37,440 interest, right? I don't know. You know, like there's got if there's if there's 652 00:54:33,839 --> 00:54:40,880 some if there's some inflation, we have to look and see if there's an inflation 653 00:54:39,359 --> 00:54:45,440 adjustment of mechanism of some sort built in 654 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:49,440 either of them, like an assurity bond or the letter of credit. Yeah. So, how the 655 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:54,640 letter of credit works right now is that if the value changed, we'd have to 656 00:54:51,359 --> 00:55:01,599 reestablish it. Um, that just that would create like 657 00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:05,839 it's not a big it's not a big uh like just administrative burden, but it would 658 00:55:03,599 --> 00:55:11,440 be there. Ideally, we'll set the value now, right? Like if we agreed to 200,000 659 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:17,119 in today's terms and then we inflate inflated out over time to 660 00:55:14,319 --> 00:55:22,160 280,000 or 300,000 just again totally random numbers then we just go with that 661 00:55:19,119 --> 00:55:28,400 number and put that in and that's where we're at. Mhm. So I guess the question 662 00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:35,440 is can you build? So what what is the mechanism either for interest or or 663 00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:40,160 um change in you know in the value of the 664 00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:45,520 letter of credit over time? I mean, can you build that into the original um into 665 00:55:43,599 --> 00:55:52,400 the original um statement of whatever the thing is? 666 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:57,359 Um or is it something that needs to be adjusted over time if if it if it 667 00:55:55,680 --> 00:56:00,960 doesn't work? I mean, if it seems like it's not working 668 00:55:58,799 --> 00:56:06,319 » based on my limited knowledge, it would be the latter where today we could set a 669 00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:10,400 letter of credit for a specific value. But then again, if that has to go to a 670 00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:16,000 different value at some point in the future, we have to go get a new one and 671 00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:19,599 deposit more money into that letter of credit. Uh, that I could be wrong. 672 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:26,400 That's based on my limited understanding of of doing these for Connecticut. 673 00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:31,280 » Just giving my given my kind of sense of some sort of to me the shity 674 00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:35,799 bond might be better Chuck I would but I have to look at the details of the shity 675 00:56:32,799 --> 00:56:35,799 bond. 676 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:41,160 » Yeah, this is outside of my area of expertise. 677 00:56:42,079 --> 00:56:45,079 Um 678 00:56:46,319 --> 00:56:54,079 but I I was also very confused about how these options get funded. There was some 679 00:56:51,839 --> 00:56:58,319 language in the in the agreement, but I thought it was very vague. 680 00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:03,760 Um, it seemed to me that, you know, just a 681 00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:07,440 yearly schedule of funding and value, you know, whether it's inflation 682 00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:12,480 protected or not, you know, it could be laid out as a yearly schedule and then 683 00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:17,880 it would be very apparent how much money is being funded and when it's being 684 00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,880 funded. 685 00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:24,720 I mean, >> okay, let me see what I could get. Let 686 00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:30,799 me do this. Let me spend a couple minutes with my finance team, try to 687 00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:36,240 pull an example shity bond and then get like a 688 00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:39,599 get like a schedule built out. Um, but the more and more we we talk about this, 689 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:46,160 I think just like establishing and agreeing upon a value and setting that 690 00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:50,160 value either inflation adjusted uh or on a schedule is probably our best way to 691 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:56,480 go for ease of explanation to board of finance. 692 00:57:53,040 --> 00:58:02,480 » Yeah. And >> the the the really would make everything 693 00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:06,240 clearer for me would just be that give an example like you said just give an 694 00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:12,160 example and >> you know um 695 00:58:08,079 --> 00:58:16,319 » and show how it works right >> and if I've read it right this bond 696 00:58:13,839 --> 00:58:20,359 isn't even being established for the first 15 years 697 00:58:20,799 --> 00:58:28,559 which you I can understand. Well, you know, the 698 00:58:25,599 --> 00:58:33,040 project has a good deal of time before we're going to have to decommission it, 699 00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:37,920 but it seems like we're completely unprotected for those first 15 years. 700 00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:43,079 You know, I'll be at a secondary protection. 701 00:58:40,079 --> 00:58:43,079 Um, 702 00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:50,720 » yeah. So, the language as it's written, the bond gets established in year 15. 703 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:55,040 Um, and you're not, it's not that you're unprotected. 704 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:59,680 The the over the overarching goal of these projects is that they operate for 705 00:58:57,599 --> 00:59:03,920 their entire contracted period, right? And we've seen assets, solar assets, 706 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:10,480 come through bankruptcy proceedings before. We've bid on them. We've never 707 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:15,839 won any. Um the most recent and probably largest in the solar space recently was 708 00:59:13,359 --> 00:59:19,839 Pinegate that went bankrupt and that that went through a bankruptcy 709 00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:25,119 proceeding. Uh but at the end of the day there are operators and financeers who 710 00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:28,319 are going to buy these assets at different stages in bankruptcy and 711 00:59:26,799 --> 00:59:33,920 operate them through them through their terms. So the goal is always that they 712 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:38,880 operate for their useful life. 713 00:59:37,359 --> 00:59:42,319 And there's always going to be someone who's looking to capitalize on that, 714 00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:48,520 especially when you have a fixed price contract with an investment grade 715 00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,520 offtaker like like Eversource. 716 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:57,920 » So in essence, you're saying we could just use the use the funding from the 717 00:59:54,400 --> 01:00:02,680 asset. We we would get the asset. We use the funding from the asset to pay for 718 00:59:59,599 --> 01:00:02,680 the decommission. 719 01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:09,119 Well, you just let the you just let the asset operate. 720 01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:14,160 » Yeah, it's just going to pass to a new owner. We wouldn't we wouldn't assume 721 01:00:11,359 --> 01:00:18,559 control or ownership of it. >> Well, but the So the but what's the So 722 01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:23,440 we have to negotiate with the new owner about I mean so the new new owner has to 723 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:25,680 take on you're saying the decommission >> the the agreement. Yeah. The agreement 724 01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:29,839 as written. >> Okay. Yeah. So so new owner has to take 725 01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:36,359 on the decommission as written. >> Okay. 726 01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:36,359 Well, what if it happens in year 10? 727 01:00:37,119 --> 01:00:43,680 » Well, what he's saying is that they still have to take off the commission in 728 01:00:41,119 --> 01:00:48,079 year 15 if they buy when they buy it. >> Correct. Yeah. the sooner it happens, if 729 01:00:46,079 --> 01:00:53,200 if it were to go to if the asset goes to bankruptcy in year two, that's just even 730 01:00:50,559 --> 01:00:57,119 more incentive for a new asset owner to come in and want to operate that project 731 01:00:54,880 --> 01:01:02,880 because you have 18 more years of contracted revenue at at fixed prices, 732 01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:07,599 right? Then you have, keep in mind that like the backside of this is uh once you 733 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:12,400 have your 20-year operating period of the ever the NRES contract, the curves 734 01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:17,200 right now just show the price of electricity continuing to escalate far 735 01:01:14,799 --> 01:01:21,440 beyond what it is today. So the anticipation is that asset owners are 736 01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:26,400 going to operate these projects for as long as they can. You know, like that's 737 01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:29,839 the goal. If they were to get kicked off the property, then you're kicked off the 738 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:33,440 property. But the goal is to continue to operate these projects and sell 739 01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:39,280 electricity for as long as possible. Even if in 35 years you're operating at 740 01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:45,200 uh you're only producing 82% of what you did in year one. Uh it's modeled in and 741 01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:49,200 it's factored. So that's the goal is to operate these and if they're going to 742 01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:54,680 continue to operate and abide by a lease and pay lease payments, then you know 743 01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,680 why not? 744 01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:04,400 I mean, I guess the thing the this is another kind of moving part in 745 01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:07,839 this contract, I guess. And so, if I were a fly in the wall and I was a 746 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:11,520 really good lawyer and I looked at the 10 contracts you've done with every 747 01:02:09,359 --> 01:02:16,000 town, is every town accepted the 15 years or somebody bumped it up to 10 or 748 01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:21,520 five? >> Um, I don't know off the top of my head. 749 01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:27,119 the 15-year is is definitely our standard and where we start. 750 01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:32,400 Um, I'd have to confirm. I'd go as far as to 751 01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:39,119 say couple of the contracts we have right now don't have a decommissioning 752 01:02:35,119 --> 01:02:43,839 shity bond built in. Um, again, a landfill property. Some the 753 01:02:41,839 --> 01:02:49,599 position of some towns has been that they'd like this to operate and produce 754 01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:49,599 revenue for as long as possible. 755 01:02:51,920 --> 01:03:01,680 Well, this the shy bit the timing of the shity bond has nothing 756 01:02:58,319 --> 01:03:06,559 to do with that, does it? I mean, when the you know, 757 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:10,559 I guess from our perspective, ultimately we'd love to have the shity bond as soon 758 01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:14,240 as possible. We not no matter how long you have it, right? 759 01:03:12,319 --> 01:03:16,960 » Yeah. Correct. And from our position, that's just going to cost us more money 760 01:03:15,839 --> 01:03:18,880 over the >> Exactly. 761 01:03:17,359 --> 01:03:23,039 » over the term, right? It's it's an additional expense for us for longer, 762 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:27,839 » right? And so, I don't know, it's like one of these things like when we used to 763 01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:33,119 negotiate about credit default swaps and things like that, there's all these 764 01:03:30,319 --> 01:03:37,440 little micro terms in there that could make a difference in these things, 765 01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:42,000 right? And >> it's better if they're all standardized 766 01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:46,640 because which which because then everybody accepts the standard, right? 767 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:49,760 It on the other hand, if I find out, I don't know that one of your other 768 01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:53,280 people, you find out one other people negotiated with you and got five years 769 01:03:51,680 --> 01:04:04,079 instead of 15 years, then we all feel like idiots. Okay. So, um um I guess 770 01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:08,039 that's the question is to what degree is I mean if 771 01:04:09,039 --> 01:04:15,760 if I thought this was standard, I might leave it. If I thought it was if I 772 01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:21,920 thought it was something that you push hard on it, you give us five years 773 01:04:17,359 --> 01:04:27,520 instead of 15, then I negotiate, right? >> Yeah. And I think um it's it's an 774 01:04:24,559 --> 01:04:32,799 interesting one because we're in a tough spot. Um we're in a spot where I've 775 01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:37,599 spent a considerable amount of money developing and advancing the project. Um 776 01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:41,680 and if if the town were to come back to me and say, "I'm not signing this lease 777 01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:47,440 unless you give me the shity bond at year five or year one." And again, just 778 01:04:44,799 --> 01:04:55,359 to be completely transparent here, do I shelf uh $150,000 of spend to date and 779 01:04:51,839 --> 01:05:01,359 say no, or do I agree to that and keep moving forward? Right? So, again, I like 780 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:06,160 cards on the table. I'm in a tough spot. Um because I don't have an ability to 781 01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:10,319 move forward and build the project with the contract I have with the town 782 01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:16,640 currently. I have a considerable amount of uh spend at risk 783 01:05:13,359 --> 01:05:19,359 » and and a and a desire to get a contract with the town that I could actually 784 01:05:17,839 --> 01:05:24,240 build and then get a permit from deep and then get a permit from the town. So, 785 01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:28,160 » okay. Um >> I'm effectively at your mercy. 786 01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:33,200 » No, I I get all that. I guess my question is convince me that 15 years is 787 01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:37,839 standard and maybe I'll >> or is there another mechanism that you 788 01:05:35,599 --> 01:05:43,520 know is more of a win-win for both? like maybe an escrow account, right? That 789 01:05:41,039 --> 01:05:50,200 isn't going to cost you um like a shity bond would 790 01:05:46,319 --> 01:05:50,200 kind of a hybrid approach. 791 01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:56,880 » Yeah, in that situation it could be, but it would just be splitting hairs really 792 01:05:55,119 --> 01:06:04,400 probably the amount of escrow versus the the carry cost for the bond. Um 793 01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:08,440 we could run the numbers on an escrow that starts earlier on. 794 01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:20,559 But I think really you have the security of whether it's Varigy or uh James 795 01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:25,119 Templeton Enterprises. The the idea is to operate these projects for as long as 796 01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:29,680 possible, right? It's not that Very goes bankrupt in two years and then nobody 797 01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:33,359 wants to touch this project. Uh there will be a new operator looking to come 798 01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:38,319 in there because they think it's a distressed asset and there's money to be 799 01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,319 made, right? 800 01:06:40,559 --> 01:06:46,640 So, because somebody's willing to come in, if you I feel bad like we're telling 801 01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:51,200 you your company is going to go bankrupt, but if your company should go 802 01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:54,960 bankrupt, it's not like we would rip it out because you're saying somebody would 803 01:06:52,799 --> 01:06:58,160 come in and then we just create a contract with them so we don't have to 804 01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:01,599 worry about ripping it out. >> No, really, the the contracts stay in 805 01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:04,160 place. So, the revenue agreement continues. 806 01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:08,640 » Yeah. But they but they just they just they just pick up the 807 01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:11,280 Okay. Correct. >> Yeah. They pick up the same contract. 808 01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:16,240 That's what it's pointed, I think, Kathy. So, that they they would still 809 01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:18,960 » So, we wouldn't necessarily decommission it because somebody else is just going 810 01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:22,400 to pick up the contract. >> Well, correct. And and Right. Correct. 811 01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:26,880 That's one thing. And the other thing is that they're still in the contract to 812 01:07:24,559 --> 01:07:30,720 put up the bond after 15 years, but then maybe it's 10 years or something. they 813 01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:36,160 still have they still have the obligation to put up the bond for 814 01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:41,440 decommission in 10 years or whatever that is. 815 01:07:39,039 --> 01:07:46,559 » Okay. I think um one of the things that might 816 01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:54,799 make the town feel you know more comfortable about this is um can we get 817 01:07:50,000 --> 01:08:00,520 updated certified financial statements um 818 01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:00,520 from you 819 01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:09,760 uh maybe yeah let let me talk to let me talk to our accounting team 820 01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:16,159 um maybe I think the easier way really is just to agree on a shy bond value 821 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:20,400 that you know you're comfortable with and that the town attorney is 822 01:08:17,440 --> 01:08:24,000 comfortable with and we agree on when that will be established and move it 823 01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:28,719 forward. Again, I'm I'm just trying to think of 824 01:08:25,839 --> 01:08:32,640 like ease of >> Well, why would we need a financial 825 01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:36,640 statement, Chuck? Because we're not we're getting the same amount of money 826 01:08:34,159 --> 01:08:39,359 per year for renting the land. So, why would we care what the 827 01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:42,239 » No, no, no, no. But Ch what Chuck wants is a financial statement of Verarajy, 828 01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:45,440 » right? >> He he wants to make sure that Varagy is 829 01:08:44,239 --> 01:08:50,000 sound right now. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. I thought we had easy 830 01:08:48,480 --> 01:08:54,239 math on our side. Okay. >> All right. 831 01:08:51,839 --> 01:08:58,000 » Uh but um >> yeah, I guess 832 01:08:56,000 --> 01:09:03,839 » the main thing to me about the 15 year is 15 years is convince me that it's not 833 01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:08,600 something you put up and then give other towns 10 or five for some reason. 834 01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:15,679 Yeah. And I'm trying to think. Let me go back and look through some leases 835 01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:21,920 because what I did was put together a chart for attorney Kalin and I sent that 836 01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:30,719 to him just with like the the contracts we had with other towns. Let me put that 837 01:09:24,480 --> 01:09:35,279 together and um send it over to you. I'm I'm almost confident that the year 15 is 838 01:09:33,679 --> 01:09:38,159 like our our standard, but I don't want to misspeak on that. 839 01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:43,120 » Okay. >> And again, so not not to belabor it, but 840 01:09:40,719 --> 01:09:48,640 how we how we just financed a batch of these projects is through a sale lease 841 01:09:45,199 --> 01:09:53,440 back with uh Mnt Bank. We did a sale lease back with First Source prior to 842 01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:59,120 that. So we'll we'll group these assets and then 843 01:09:55,280 --> 01:10:04,880 effectively sell it to the bank Mnt Bank for purposes of them capturing the 844 01:10:01,679 --> 01:10:11,440 investment tax credit we lease it back as the operator. So if the as the 845 01:10:08,480 --> 01:10:18,000 operator if we were to default on our financing agreement with Mnt Bank, they 846 01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:24,320 step in and take ownership of the project. like they might then choose to 847 01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:29,679 find a new operator, right? Or they would just own it and hire companies to 848 01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:35,840 do the asset management and operations and maintenance. Um, so that's that's 849 01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:41,120 like the most likely financing mechanism. That's how we will finance 850 01:10:38,159 --> 01:10:45,920 this project again because we have to find a way to monetize that federal tax 851 01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:51,520 credit which is typically done by the banks and the sale lease back is the 852 01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:55,199 most common method right now uh that a lot of folks are financing these 853 01:10:52,800 --> 01:11:00,640 projects. >> Yeah. No, I I get all that. And so the 854 01:10:58,239 --> 01:11:05,040 key things to me are what Kathy was just speaking about, right, is we go through 855 01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:08,159 that process, this contract stays in place, including the shy bond in year 856 01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:14,080 15. >> And um the second thing to me is that I 857 01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:17,280 just want to >> um 858 01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:21,520 I want to, you know, I don't want to feel like you've been duped. In other 859 01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:26,400 words, you come out with 15 and then if you're a really savvy town, you get 10, 860 01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:31,280 right? Yep. Yeah. Let let me put that together again. I don't want to misspeak 861 01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:38,360 on that. Um I definitely know we've done 15 before, but let me add that to the 862 01:11:34,159 --> 01:11:38,360 chart and I'll send it over to you. 863 01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:48,880 Okay. [clears throat and cough] Well, yeah, you can tell there's a 864 01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:53,760 couple of guys on this on this um task force that spent a 865 01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:58,239 career in risk management with financial services. 866 01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:04,159 » This is kind of the bread and butter of not so much what I did, but probably 867 01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:09,760 more so what Tom did. I was more in the things. You get exposed to it um whether 868 01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:14,800 or not you're actively working in that group or not. Yep. 869 01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:18,640 » No, I get it. I get it. >> Usually all the money is in how you 870 01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:21,679 argue. All the money is in the options that people don't see 871 01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:26,320 » or think about. >> Correct. Yeah. If if you guys are 872 01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:30,560 golfers, you've probably heard that every match is won and lost on the first 873 01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:33,600 te. [laughter] 874 01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:38,560 » Right. So, anyway, let's get let's go on, Chuck, though. Let's beat they beat 875 01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:45,280 this to death. Yeah, I think I think we're done with the update. Um I have 876 01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:50,400 like small amount of other things I want to talk to to the task force about, but 877 01:12:48,239 --> 01:12:57,520 um yeah, I haven't set up anything with the fire marshall yet. Um I don't see 878 01:12:53,520 --> 01:13:02,239 that as critical path yet, but um let me know Brian if it becomes critical path 879 01:13:00,239 --> 01:13:06,560 and we can move that up. >> Yeah. No, good good point, Chuck. I 880 01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:10,239 think what's best once we have like an initial site plan draft from our 881 01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:13,679 engineer and definitely prior to going to planning and zoning, we'll meet with 882 01:13:12,159 --> 01:13:17,600 the fire marshall and just give them the rundown. Definitely want to do that 883 01:13:15,199 --> 01:13:22,719 before we submit anything to P&Z, but I want to have a little more detailed plan 884 01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:25,840 than I have right now. So, probably in a few weeks would be good time and I'll 885 01:13:24,239 --> 01:13:30,440 make sure you know you and I are connected on that. 886 01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:30,440 » All right. 887 01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:40,400 Okay. >> Okay. No, thank you for your time. 888 01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:43,840 » Great great to speak with you all. >> I hope 889 01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:46,480 » Trying to watch the kids in the backyard here. So, sorry for the noise. 890 01:13:45,885 --> 01:13:49,120 [laughter] >> All right. 891 01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:52,640 » Go do that. That's more important. >> Have a good night. 892 01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:55,880 » We'll talk to you. Bye. All right. Thank you. Bye. 893 01:14:00,719 --> 01:14:05,400 All right. Well, what do you guys think? 894 01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:13,719 Well, again, the thing that drives me nuts about these things is 895 01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:24,800 I've seen lots of situations where you put out a template with six things that 896 01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:30,080 if you can get, you get, you know, um if nobody argues, you get it. If somebody 897 01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:36,080 argues, then you give in and give them something better. But um I don't know if 898 01:14:33,679 --> 01:14:39,920 that's this kind of situation or not. Right. 899 01:14:37,679 --> 01:14:44,080 I mean and and most of the options are around the 900 01:14:42,239 --> 01:14:50,960 margin anyway. We're talking about like secondary options which for them is 901 01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:56,320 generally big could be big money but for us it's probably not as big a deal as 902 01:14:54,480 --> 01:15:03,040 unless something really you know outlying stuff happens right. 903 01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:08,520 But it's good to um it's good to see what we can get up front. And I be 904 01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:08,520 definitely 905 01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:16,000 we do we know who So we have the list of other towns he's doing this for now or 906 01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,960 has done it for? >> He's going to give us a list, but um 907 01:15:18,239 --> 01:15:23,440 » Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. We don't Apparently the attorney 908 01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:29,040 has. I haven't seen it. >> Right. So, I'd like to see if the other 909 01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:34,880 any other towns have gotten better terms. That's my that's my biggest kind 910 01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:39,120 of concern with this stuff. >> Yeah. I just want to make sure we're 911 01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:43,600 adequately protected. Something goes up. I just I worry a little bit because 912 01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:47,360 they're doing a lot of projects and, you know, they're obviously selling this. 913 01:15:45,679 --> 01:15:52,640 They're not holding it. They're selling it all, right? Um, so, 914 01:15:50,719 --> 01:15:57,760 um, that smacks a little bit of securization to me and you know that's 915 01:15:55,360 --> 01:16:03,199 that's that's a tough hole to yourself. >> It does, but on the on the flip side of 916 01:16:00,159 --> 01:16:12,719 that, as he says, it gives MNT Bank or somebody else the the kind of desire and 917 01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:16,159 motivation to make sure it keeps running, right? 918 01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:19,360 » Yeah. We almost need a financial statement from them. 919 01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:32,080 Um, well, no, I don't know. I think it gives the opposite side of the the the 920 01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:35,600 equation uh skin in the game for us, right? So, um, 921 01:16:34,719 --> 01:16:39,679 » yeah, >> that that's probably a good thing. 922 01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:43,920 » Yeah. >> Yeah, I'm a little more comfortable 923 01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:48,640 um with that. And then, you know, it really isn't quite like securization, 924 01:16:46,159 --> 01:16:56,280 but just um I mean, salary specs are pretty 925 01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:56,280 common, right, in the financial world. 926 01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:05,679 In general, solar developers want their money out of these projects as quickly 927 01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:08,480 as they can get them. >> Yeah. 928 01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:15,840 » They can get it. I mean, and so that's the kind of the mo the mode that the PV 929 01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:20,080 solar guys use. Whether it's res, commercial, 930 01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:23,280 utility, scale, doesn't matter. It's all the same. 931 01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:25,840 » Yeah. I think they're probably just spreading their yourself financially 932 01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:29,199 thin, right? >> Yep. Yep. 933 01:17:27,440 --> 01:17:32,239 » Um, >> but what I'm saying is that they 934 01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:36,400 understand these options a lot more than we do, 935 01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:40,880 » right? You know, they've got it. I'm sure they've got a very, you know, 936 01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:48,159 extensive analysis of what it means to do 10 years versus 15 years or what it 937 01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:53,520 means to do to do 72,000 versus 300,000, right? And so, um, they got a guy 938 01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:56,400 sitting back there who can give a put a number to that really quickly, I'm sure. 939 01:17:56,000 --> 01:18:02,320 » Yeah. >> But, um, now, 940 01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:06,560 you know, does it matter that much to us? I'm not sure. 941 01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:12,719 I think what you're trying to do in this case is just protect the town as it 942 01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:18,719 relates to getting rid of the ship at the end of life. Um, and I'm not sure 943 01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:27,199 it's any more complicated than that. To me, the answer is go to a shity bond and 944 01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:32,400 don't complicate it. But I mean, I think chase it, pull on the string, see where 945 01:18:29,679 --> 01:18:38,360 it goes, let him do his his due diligence on it, and get back to us. 946 01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:38,360 » Yeah. 947 01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:41,480 Um, 948 01:18:42,239 --> 01:18:48,560 so some of the other recommendations I've seen are about adding 949 01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:54,800 decommissioning triggers um such as the project ceasing operation 950 01:18:51,120 --> 01:19:00,320 for 12 months, bankruptcy, abandonment or end of fuseful life um to the 951 01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:03,840 contract. Um I don't know. Have you seen that kind of 952 01:19:02,239 --> 01:19:08,400 language, Jim? >> Mhm. Yep. 953 01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:14,800 » You think we should? But as he point as he points out um 954 01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:23,679 if even if these things are chugging along at 80% efficiency after 15 or 20 955 01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:28,800 years or 30 years um there's value in it 956 01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:35,520 » and somebody will buy somebody will buy it and try to extract that value um for 957 01:19:33,199 --> 01:19:39,440 as long as they can. I know. But this is the flip side of it, 958 01:19:37,440 --> 01:19:43,360 right? This is, hey, the project's not in operation anymore or there's been 959 01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:48,120 abandonment, right? >> Yeah, fair enough. I understand. 960 01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:53,280 » And you know, we should we should be specific. 961 01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:58,159 » Well, go ahead. >> That's different than bankruptcy. 962 01:19:56,159 --> 01:20:01,040 » It is. That is 963 01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:05,920 » um >> Well, that I I know. So, the So, yeah. 964 01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:11,280 So Chuck, the the real danger to me seems to be and this the biggest danger 965 01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:14,239 for us seems to be 2027. 966 01:20:13,650 --> 01:20:23,760 [laughter] Um you know that if they get half into 967 01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:28,080 this or get you know you know build half the thing or 968 01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:35,280 » or if they don't finish it. Yeah. >> Don't finish it. what um you know and 969 01:20:32,480 --> 01:20:41,120 then they go bankrupt or pull out for some reason then what do we do 970 01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:45,600 » or if we or there's a trade embargo and we can't get parts. 971 01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:48,800 » I think they already have the parts. >> They do have all the parts. Okay, that's 972 01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:53,920 » I don't know if they have them all but at least the panels and so on they say 973 01:20:50,719 --> 01:20:58,880 Harvard. So they told me um to preserve the federal tax credit they had to do. 974 01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:03,520 Well, I know, but if they go in bankruptcy, then people are going to go 975 01:21:00,719 --> 01:21:09,381 after the parts, right? [laughter] >> They'll have a tag sale. 976 01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:09,381 » You betcha. [laughter] 977 01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:20,640 » So, yeah, but nursing this through to get to end of 2027 is going to be to me 978 01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:25,520 the trickiest part in some ways. >> Yeah. Well, we got to walk that line 979 01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:29,600 between and I think they're going to push back, right, on a [clears throat] 980 01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:35,440 lot of the stuff we asked for tonight. >> Well, yeah. And their leverage is Yeah. 981 01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:38,800 that they they can in essence walk if they want to, 982 01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:42,400 » right? And it's not the first time he's mentioned this when we start to push him 983 01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:46,800 on things. No, >> I know. I know. And well, we knew that 984 01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:51,840 all along. So, that's that's his leverage. He can if if the thing doesn't 985 01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:57,480 really meet his specifications, he can in 986 01:21:54,159 --> 01:21:57,480 essence walk. 987 01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:06,960 And but I'm hoping that we both have get gradually got enough skin in the game 988 01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:13,520 little by little that he won't and we won't unless under really nasty 989 01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:19,040 circumstances. Do you think that $150,000 990 01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:25,560 number that he mentioned is is uh is real in terms of what their spend has 991 01:22:22,159 --> 01:22:25,560 been to date? 992 01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:35,840 » Who knows? Who knows? Nobody knows this crap. Like, you know, um we're sitting 993 01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:42,080 in this waste thing and you know, so we got a grant for 17,000. 994 01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:48,480 I think 17,000 in most companies buys you uh a coffee hour in a meeting with 995 01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:50,719 with with [laughter] half the people >> with Danish. 996 01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:56,639 » You put you put the right people in the room at 17,000 in a in a two-hour 997 01:22:53,120 --> 01:23:02,400 meeting. Okay. Um so I who knows what the spend is, you know, those kind of 998 01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:05,120 things are like way up in a kind of um um 999 01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:09,120 » supposedly they bought all the panels for the project. So we could do a 1000 01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:13,760 computation on that or Chim might even have a you know off the cough answer. Um 1001 01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:19,040 you know >> a watt 1002 01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:22,800 » but in in theory though he could just use that for something else if he walks 1003 01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:25,679 go someplace. >> Absolutely. Yeah. 1004 01:23:24,239 --> 01:23:28,000 » So >> um 1005 01:23:26,639 --> 01:23:33,199 » you know than that he's done some engineering but it's not too detailed 1006 01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:39,600 yet. Um I don't know. I don't you know 1007 01:23:36,719 --> 01:23:43,639 maybe an opportunity cost, but maybe not real cost. I don't know. 1008 01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:52,560 But um anyway, let's keep trying to nurse it. I 1009 01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:57,600 mean, I I guess what I want to see is that you know what I don't want coming 1010 01:23:55,040 --> 01:24:03,440 back to me is five years they go bankrupt and Planeville says, "Oh, I got 1011 01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:10,360 five years out of them. Oh, I I got 350,000 out of them. Oh, 1012 01:24:06,239 --> 01:24:10,360 and you guys are just duped. 1013 01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:19,679 Um, I think we should be specific about what 1014 01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:25,440 needs to be what decommissioning means. Um, you know, this is the list that I 1015 01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:30,320 came up with, but um, you know, removal panels, racking, 1016 01:24:28,239 --> 01:24:37,199 foundation, wires, transformers, you know, yada yada yada. But is there stuff 1017 01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:40,719 in here that we should take out or add? >> Me, I'd approach it from the other 1018 01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:45,239 perspective. Return it to its current condition. 1019 01:24:45,679 --> 01:24:52,560 Don't try to delineate everything, Chuck. 1020 01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:58,239 » But I'm not I'm not the attorney in the crowd and have no desire to be the the 1021 01:24:56,159 --> 01:25:02,000 the attorney in the crowd. >> Well, you know, there was something in 1022 01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:06,159 the agreement about take it back to the 1023 01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:10,800 there was some tricky language in there. I thought I got to go back and refresh 1024 01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:14,000 myself on it, but it wasn't I wasn't sure they were actually saying they 1025 01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:19,679 would actually take it back to its present condition. I think they 1026 01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:24,239 I think they said they'll take it back to the condition that it was at at the 1027 01:25:22,480 --> 01:25:30,080 end of construction or something like this. you know, it did, 1028 01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:36,360 but uh I would, you know, urge you to read through it um and help me sort it 1029 01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:36,360 out. 1030 01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:48,639 » Um yeah. Do we need an engineer prepared 1031 01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:54,000 estimate of the value of the thing over time? 1032 01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:58,360 » To what end? Well, I just saw that recommendation somewhere with no 1033 01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:58,360 justification. 1034 01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:06,159 » I better run it by you. >> I think it's a waste of money and time 1035 01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:13,679 unless there's a specific need for it. But if you're referring to what the demo 1036 01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:16,679 demo costs are, what a waste of time. >> Yeah. 1037 01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:24,520 Okay. Well, that's pretty much it of things that I thought about. 1038 01:26:24,719 --> 01:26:34,639 » Yep. Your last bullet. I agree. I mean, the contract is in force 1039 01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:39,760 um if it gets sold. I mean, subject if they I mean, the new owner may come and 1040 01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:46,080 try to renegotiate it, but you know, that stands on its own. Um Yeah. I mean, 1041 01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:50,080 contracts in force. >> Yeah. No, that that that one's 1042 01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:52,400 important. I think that's and he agreed to that, I thought, today. 1043 01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:55,679 » Yeah. >> Yep. That's right. 1044 01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:58,679 » Yeah. So, we should write it in the the agreement. 1045 01:27:00,639 --> 01:27:06,320 I don't think it's in there, but it could be. 1046 01:27:04,159 --> 01:27:10,080 » You know, I get lost in some of the lang legal language or impatient with trying 1047 01:27:08,480 --> 01:27:15,199 to sort through it. >> Right. I don't see why he I don't see 1048 01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:21,360 why he should object to the last point. >> Um, no. the he now Mnt Bank might object 1049 01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:25,360 to the last point. I don't know. That's that's what's why that's the problem 1050 01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:28,800 when you're doing this whole in between stuff and and the standards, right? And 1051 01:27:27,679 --> 01:27:34,880 that's why I was asking about the standards too is that you know Mnt Bank 1052 01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:40,400 and they're going to read through this and they're going to require certain 1053 01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:44,239 things too, right? And so, um, they don't might not like the last point, but 1054 01:27:42,159 --> 01:27:50,679 we've got to I think we have to push hard on the last point. 1055 01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:50,679 Yeah, I think that's fine. 1056 01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:57,520 » All right. >> That's that's a function of the 1057 01:27:54,080 --> 01:28:04,679 agreement between Very and Mnt or whoever is financing the thing, 1058 01:28:01,679 --> 01:28:04,679 » right? 1059 01:28:08,239 --> 01:28:16,320 All right. Well, that's that's all I have for tonight. 1060 01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:18,960 Um, >> if we adjourn, 1061 01:28:18,356 --> 01:28:22,800 [laughter] >> anything else before we close? 1062 01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:25,199 » Nope. >> I'm good. 1063 01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:29,040 » All right. >> Yeah. Thanks everyone. Thank you 1064 01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:34,239 everyone. >> Thank you. One one quick thing is this 1065 01:28:31,199 --> 01:28:39,400 this so when when is the timeline of get getting this 1066 01:28:36,159 --> 01:28:39,400 thing signed 1067 01:28:39,440 --> 01:28:47,360 » is this I'm trying to understand whether >> you know he he said he said June 25th 1068 01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:51,040 didn't he >> he hoped to have it but now that's 1069 01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:56,320 that's the point of the lease extension now because it it means the lease option 1070 01:28:53,760 --> 01:29:02,960 extension right so you know in the event that we can't negotiate this by the 25th 1071 01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:07,760 it then we're going to just extend the current option that we have. 1072 01:29:06,239 --> 01:29:11,040 That's why I asked him if the language is any different than what we already 1073 01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:16,239 have. >> Right. But I don't know. I'd like to Has 1074 01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:21,440 anybody talked to Have you talked to the lawyer? Have you talked to um to um you 1075 01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:26,320 know >> to Tim or anybody about what's going on 1076 01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:34,080 on our side on this? I copied Tim on all all these concerns when I sent sent it 1077 01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:38,880 to Dan and um Dan called me to yesterday I think and um 1078 01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:44,960 you know he said I think we should go for the bond and um you know try to get 1079 01:29:42,239 --> 01:29:50,320 the full amount and he he was concerned that maybe they can't get anybody to 1080 01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:58,800 underwrite that amount for the bond but um but notwithstanding that. But he did 1081 01:29:55,199 --> 01:30:03,920 mention that, you know, it he would discuss some of this stuff with the with 1082 01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:08,639 the um with the lawyer and he said, "I might rope you guys into it." And I 1083 01:30:05,440 --> 01:30:14,719 said, "Please do." Right. >> Okay. I just I guess I don't want to 1084 01:30:12,480 --> 01:30:17,520 extend extend extend indefinitely because 1085 01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:23,440 » um you know, >> it just costs everybody money. 1086 01:30:19,360 --> 01:30:28,960 » It costs everybody money. And um but lawyers tend to do that if they if 1087 01:30:25,440 --> 01:30:33,440 they're given the time, you know. Um so I'd like to see if we can get a real 1088 01:30:31,440 --> 01:30:36,760 let's let's set a real deadline and stick to it. 1089 01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:43,600 » Yeah. No, I'm fine with that, but not at the cost of, you know, material 1090 01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:49,840 risk. >> I agree. But I mean I I I agree. So 1091 01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:56,480 let's keep let's keep doing that. But um doing I just 1092 01:30:53,679 --> 01:31:02,080 it's costing us in other ways to extend I think. 1093 01:30:59,040 --> 01:31:07,520 » So um you it would be good to have in the conversation with the lawyer. Um are 1094 01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:11,932 you going to California anytime soon or anywhere else? 1095 01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:13,952 » Yes. [laughter] 1096 01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:19,848 » Um >> he just decided at this moment 1097 01:31:17,828 --> 01:31:19,848 » [laughter] 1098 01:31:20,159 --> 01:31:27,199 » No, but it's not. Well, it's the or anywhere else and giving you a list of 1099 01:31:25,199 --> 01:31:32,719 where they are would be would take would take take another [laughter] half an 1100 01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:37,760 hour. So, um um but um I'll be back and forth and play and 1101 01:31:34,719 --> 01:31:43,920 around at different times. Not the rest of this, not the rest of this week. Um 1102 01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:50,639 but um yeah, >> next week. 1103 01:31:45,440 --> 01:31:54,280 » Are you here next week? next week on um Monday and Tuesday, 1104 01:31:55,199 --> 01:32:05,120 » international man of mystery. >> Well, I that used to be that. This is 1105 01:32:01,199 --> 01:32:09,840 more just I got, you know, the busy life of a retired guy in the [laughter] in 1106 01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:16,400 the go in the go- go period, not the not the slowgo period or the whatever they 1107 01:32:12,159 --> 01:32:21,760 call it beyond that. the off [laughter] >> there's a very good chance I'm going to 1108 01:32:18,159 --> 01:32:29,360 end up in Mississippi soon um for an unknown amount of time but um 1109 01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:36,440 it's very dynamic but I don't think it's going to occur before 1110 01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:36,440 the end of next week 1111 01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:47,840 based on conversations we had today. Well, is everything still zoomable? 1112 01:32:43,679 --> 01:32:53,159 » Yeah, I think so. We probably could. I mean, 1113 01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:53,159 if we need to 1114 01:32:53,440 --> 01:33:03,760 » Okay. Anyway, so figure out. So, how long's the extension for? 1115 01:33:00,159 --> 01:33:03,760 » I I'd have to go look. 1116 01:33:04,159 --> 01:33:16,400 So when we so call enact I' I'd just like to see I'd like to get 1117 01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:23,199 our lawyer focused on finalizing this at some date 1118 01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:29,440 um soon. Um I don't want to I don't want to give up on things that are are we 1119 01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:34,080 think are really bad negotiating things, you know, that we should just give it 1120 01:33:30,719 --> 01:33:38,920 in. But um I don't want to just let it drag 1121 01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:38,920 forever. 1122 01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:46,960 » Y here's the agreement. Uh it's actually 1123 01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:52,040 very short. >> Um hang on. I got to share again. 1124 01:33:57,360 --> 01:34:01,920 I haven't read this just now. 1125 01:34:02,159 --> 01:34:05,520 year. >> 12 months. Yeah. 1126 01:34:04,960 --> 01:34:11,120 » Yeah. >> So, I don't want to be 1127 01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:14,880 debating about this this time next year. >> Oh god. No. [laughter] 1128 01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:19,920 » No. Definitely. >> I mean, I would have pref I would have 1129 01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:22,080 loved it if it said uh August 25th. [laughter] 1130 01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:25,815 Um >> Well, we could we could make the 1131 01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:28,480 recommendation to change it. [clears throat] 1132 01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:33,679 » I don't know. I mean, again, that's a discussion between Tim and the lawyer 1133 01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:38,560 and stuff, but I feel like what's what's our town lawyer's downside 1134 01:34:36,159 --> 01:34:43,500 to spend lots of time on trivial stuff on this and charges for it? 1135 01:34:40,880 --> 01:34:45,520 » Yeah, he's a contract lawyer, right? [clears throat] 1136 01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:54,760 » All right. Well, >> yeah, 1137 01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:54,760 » we'll talk I'll get up with Dan. 1138 01:34:55,920 --> 01:35:00,159 » Have a good evening. Yeah. Good night to car. Thank you. 1139 01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:07,080 » Good night. >> You guys, we'll see you. Y 1140 01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:07,080 night.