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Thank you. We're working with some height issues back here. Just ignore our shenanigans, yes. All right, we are going to start our evening with town manager's comments. Regan, welcome back. Thank you. Good evening, mayor, members of council, members of the public. Your agenda this evening, pretty straightforward. We're opening with a presentation by the Parents Commission of Southern Pines and this prusing up awards for 2020

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You

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Section 6. You can send agenda, includes three items, one being authorization of an application for sewer rehab funds, the second being an authorization to my office to execute an agreement with the Visit Pinehurst Southern Pines Aberdeen, previously known as the CBB, relative to a public art installation that will be taking place out at Reservoir Park. Town staff has had an opportunity to meet with representatives from Visit Pinehurst Southern Pines Aberdeen.

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talk about what their expectations are and everybody is comfortable with the installation

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of that Patrick Dirty piece at the Reservoir Park.

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And then finally, your minutes from the August business meeting and work session.

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Beyond that, item 7a is called an action item.

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However, my understanding is you had a conversation at the work session regarding the YMCA project,

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had asked your town attorney to come back with some recommendations.

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You should have found in your packet a memo from Attorney Macarlie, essentially recommending that we allow that existing contract with the YMCA to sort of run its course, and then in the event that they are able to follow through and get some positive results based upon what you all talked about at the work session.

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We can reconvene moving forward with basically putting in a new agreement in place.

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Obviously, Attorney Macarly is available when we get to that item on the agenda.

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Should you have any questions of him?

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And from there, we'll move into a series of three public hearings of the legislative

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nature followed by an evidentiary QJ hearing.

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Planning staff will be present to introduce those items when we get to that point on the

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agenda.

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With that, I'm happy to take any questions or otherwise request an adoption of the agenda

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as presented.

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Thank you.

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Council, do you have any questions for our manager?

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All right.

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I'll make a motion to approve the agenda.

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Second.

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All those in favor?

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Aye.

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Aye.

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Any opposed?

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Motion carries.

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Thank you.

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All right.

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Let's start with our presentation from the Appearance Commission

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for sprucing up southern pines.

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Good afternoon, everyone.

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Good afternoon.

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Would you like to introduce everyone on your commission

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as you start?

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I would.

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Okay, that'd be great.

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Thank you.

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of

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the Spursing of Southern Pines Commission.

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And you know, several members of the commission

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here this afternoon, and you can use mine,

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all of you stand up, and I will go from there.

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That way, that's been a lot of fun.

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Yeah, you're speaking water.

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Right here, Terry Lennahan.

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Carol Haney, former, and Kim.

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I'm sorry, Terry.

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Terry, Jerry.

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Jerry, pardon me.

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She's one of our newbies.

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And then they're still learning.

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Kate Schinquen.

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Oh, sorry.

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And Ashley Traumatine, who is one of our resident,

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resident business owners.

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Thank you very much.

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So this is our crew minus about five or six

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who are missing four or five that are missing right now tonight.

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So this is our committee.

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Take names a bit of water on the wire.

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And we're looking for more.

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any of you that might want to volunteer come join us.

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All right, and giving that acknowledgement to our committee, I'd like to give

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acknowledgement and honor to our mayor, Taylor, Clement tonight and

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town council, along with, as I've mentioned, my name is Cynthia,

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I'm squeezing up a certain file.

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Now, the certificate tonight will be given at the end of our presentation.

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And what I'd like to do when I start out with this every year is just tell you a little

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bit about screw-seeing up southern pines.

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We have an acronym for it.

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It's S-U-S-P.

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And acronyms, we know how that goes, screw-seeing up southern pines.

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What is screw-seeing up southern pines?

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The screw-seeing up southern pines award program is an annual program administered by the town

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of southern pines appearance commission.

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The town is committed to preserving its natural beauty and environment.

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The town of Southern Pines and Parents Commission is a volunteer board appointed by the town

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council that may have as many as 13 members, 10 being residents of the town, and 3 being residents

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of more county within the extra terrestrial jurisdiction.

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Oh, extraterritorial jurisdiction, sorry about that, ETJ.

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This community must have missed in plans and carries out programs to enhance and improve

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the visual quality and aesthetics characteristics of the town and the extraterritorial jurisdiction

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addition beyond the town's limits.

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The Appearance Commission studies the visual problems as best we can and needs of the town as well as the ETJ extra territorial jurisdiction commission planning slash zoning jurisdictions.

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If we need help, we call on people like BJ in terms of planning and other people not mean necessarily, but my committee is well connected with a lot of you town council people and thank goodness for that.

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for me. As examples of who can be awarded are commercial, industrial, residential site improvements,

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upgrades, additions, landscapes, renovations, and new structures that are architecturally

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noteworthy. Qualified recipients in each of the residential and commercial industry

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industrial industry categories may be chosen as well.

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A committee chairperson takes responsibility for the program with committee members.

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The entire Appearance Commission considers the nominations and we vote.

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That starts around the March time of the year where nominations are accepted for

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approximately six weeks.

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Eligibility, properties must be located within the corporate limits of the extraterrestrial

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jurisdiction area of the town of southern Pines.

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Projects must be visible from a public street.

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Submissions must have the consent of the owner, self nominations are encouraged.

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In new construction, a certificate of occupancy must have been issued to be nominated.

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projects that have won in the previous two years are not eligible. Improvements must have been

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completed within the last 12 months. So I am so proud this year of our residents who were

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nominated and what they have created on their properties. We'd like to encourage town council

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members and staff to help and our residents to help promote this initiative that we've done

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Now I approximately eight years and nominations again are open starting March 27th.

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Now from here, what I'd like to do is show you this year's properties.

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The one thing we must apologize for this year is we don't have any, and I won't say any,

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all of the ten residents that were nominated. They have soccer, they have Portuguese, they have this

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that or the other. So, unfortunately, unlike some other years, not all of our nominees are

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here tonight. So, what we'll do if you don't mind, Mayor, is at the end of this, we'd like

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to still take a picture of our commissioners and the few gentlemen that are here from one

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of our nominations, okay? To start, do you hear it, everybody? Okay, this is 440 South

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May Street. This is, we happen to have a before picture. And the previous landscaping on

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this property was so overgrown, the home was unable to be seen from the road. And there

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was major yard work has been done to tame the overgrown yard and give the home some need

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of curb appeal. In addition to the yard, major work has been done to this home. The

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carport was enclosed, the exterior was renovated, and painting given this property a new lease

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on life. This is more of it before,

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which you see the end. Oh, starting to get there. Looking

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pretty good, when you say from those first few pictures. And this is what we look for as a

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commission as a committee. You know, when we're

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tooling around town, we want to see people who are

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working outside. It doesn't have to be a lot. Just a

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little bit can help make a difference in our

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community. And next to the next one, not to keep you

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465 South Ash Street. This owners worked very hard as

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we understand to improve the exterior of their home,

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their first home. She did everything herself and is so

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proud. She picked out appropriate plants, colors,

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coordinated at all. This is her first time renovating a home inside and out. They have

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named the cottage the Fox box and have Fox items all around. Little before, sorry, little

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before and after. The bottom is before, yes, and the top is before, also. Okay, sorry.

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All right, and this has been new.

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Look at that.

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Okay, this is still before.

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It looks pretty good to me.

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This is the after.

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Ooh, that's what you might see here.

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That's what we like to hear.

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This is the after.

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Haven't seen these in a while actually.

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I love this.

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Yeah, and look more after and she's done it all herself.

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This is an old properties, 475 Glover Street.

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just a mature beautiful greenery and flowering and pine trees all over the

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place. I see my name I nominated this person don't have too many before but when

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I say old-party property it's mature and they keep it lovely all the time

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this is Mr. and Mrs. Will Cable on Glover Street. Lovely peaceful serene.

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I mean you

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can keep it simple. If you've got work to do, just do it. I know it's easier

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seven done in many cases. Now where it's 470 at 670, Kensington Road, this

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is a before. Now check this out. Person is a garden designer. This new garden is

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lovely and going to be a spectacular in a few years. We've worked hard, she says,

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on this house for the past year. The property was extremely rundown and

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and in horrible shape.

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I think it's made a big improvement to the neighborhood.

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Miss Lisa Grumble.

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You hear Miss Grumble?

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No.

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This is the after.

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Again.

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To make, look at that.

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Nice.

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I'm not in the wall's way.

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Am I behind me?

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OK.

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This is 56 East Indiana Avenue.

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This is a before.

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Looks good to me.

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however she this person is very appreciative of the neighbor who likes what the new owners have done

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to renovate and update this house. The new painting and landscaping is lovely that was the

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comment of the neighbor that's the new looks good just amazing what a few plants and gravel can do

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I say that like it's inexpensive, but I'm sure it's not.

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And you guys really know, I'm sure.

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And this is another portion of it, just lovely, lovely.

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These homes are in Southern Pines, it's such a quaint, and we all love our little town

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once we're here.

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I thought when my husband and I moved here eight years ago, I'd never live in Southern Pines,

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though my parents are from here.

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I grew up in Connecticut and I never come back to this little town, I'm here and I don't

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want to leave.

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And this is the last of that home, which is so lovely and they have their guard outstanding

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out.

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Three, oh, one mid-loathe and drive.

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Just want to read this from this woman, my husband has worked tirelessly to renovate

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our home for our family. Shortly after moving in he made it his mission to improve the exterior,

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the exterior landscaping so our neighbors could enjoy the fact that someone bought this abandoned

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home and put love into it after so many years. We're proud of what we've done and look forward to

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improving this house over the years to come. Next, still before pictures of that property. They

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clean that up still before pictures. It's nice when we have good before pictures.

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That are lovely. Open to that totally up looks fabulous.

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Very nice. I wish our

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nominees were here.

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That is the end of the residential awardees this year.

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A few

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and where is Gigi?

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I'm not here, but she is the nominated.

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These gentlemen here are here to receive their award, OK?

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And Valmede is one of their new landscape managers

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has made a huge difference in the property.

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His team cares for all the home's cottages.

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It's just beautiful over there.

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For apartment buildings, the clubhouse,

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health-related buildings, and they must say this young man

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has given his blood, sweat, and tears.

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Imagine that's on there.

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Probably some tears.

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Oh, some tears. Probably some tears

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over this beautiful land.

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Thanks, Gigi.

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And here we go.

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Entrance way.

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Before you see the app.

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Before.

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Yes, that's what we do. Just judge on the outside. The before to the left, this huge, what we call it, evergreen, removed and now it's so open and airy. And of course, that's building. It's been there how many years, property, almost 100, oh, yes, 100 years. All of us are pretty much familiar with this building, quite a history. And there you are.

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here. Very nice with our sign. Very nice. Okay. Thank you, Belmead. And thank you for

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being here. Thank you.

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Are you all mistakenly still going to pay your spectrum bill here?

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Do you really? Okay. This building stood vacant for quite some time. I would come back

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I can forth visiting my folks and it was still dead, dead.

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Are they ever going to do anything on that corner?

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Since taking ownership, LKC, which I believe is an engineering firm,

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thoughtfully transformed the space, constructing a new building that not only revitalizes the site,

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but also complements the character of our downtown.

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The rest, the results is a welcoming building that reflects the spirit of our area by Ashley nominated by Ashley Commissioner on the appearance commission that before the after it's a beautiful looking building for downtown

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town, Southern Pines. It doesn't take away from the style and the old historic, just a

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little pop of new here. Like you're building now, it's a pop of new on Broad Street.

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That's how I figure this building is now, a pop of new LKC engineering. Okay, and this

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is to 37 Davis Street, the design of the building and property look great. It isn't a typical

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office building. It looks sharp, well designed, and it is great fit to the street. This particular

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property is a golf type which go in and can hit balls and that kind of thing. As I understand

233
00:32:27,580 --> 00:32:34,720
it, I haven't been there yet. It's over by behind the Walmart area and the work out place

234
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:45,800
first health work out area, lovely, and it's a brand new building, so it fits, it fits,

235
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:48,880
still looks good.

236
00:32:49,780 --> 00:32:53,920
Now our last but not least is 105 East Pennsylvania Avenue.

237
00:32:56,420 --> 00:33:03,620
One of her neighbors nominated this particular property and said I would like to nominate

238
00:33:03,620 --> 00:33:07,580
this property because it constantly enhances the beauty

239
00:33:07,580 --> 00:33:09,320
in charm of southern pides.

240
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,380
Through thoughtful planting, curb appealing, and pride

241
00:33:12,380 --> 00:33:14,840
of ownership, it is a standout example

242
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,700
of how well maintained outdoor spaces contribute

243
00:33:18,700 --> 00:33:20,860
to the character of our community

244
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,640
while bringing smiles to past survivors.

245
00:33:25,450 --> 00:33:28,290
Thank you, Mr. Heidschman, and I'll

246
00:33:28,290 --> 00:33:29,830
believe he's here either.

247
00:33:30,390 --> 00:33:30,570
Brent?

248
00:33:31,230 --> 00:33:31,910
Oh, she's here.

249
00:33:32,250 --> 00:33:33,490
Oh, you are.

250
00:33:33,730 --> 00:33:33,970
Wonderful.

251
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:35,990
Yes, thank you.

252
00:33:36,590 --> 00:33:38,650
I hope we did it credence, you know,

253
00:33:38,650 --> 00:33:45,870
and talking about it is lovely, lovely, lovely. Thank you for nominating it. And that actually ends

254
00:33:45,870 --> 00:33:52,710
our presentation and that this so you all can keep it moving. We'd like to take a quick photo

255
00:33:53,210 --> 00:33:58,350
together with Mayor. Would you like to do one with the whole council as well? Okay.

256
00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:09,750
We do it in front of the dios and then have it stand or say it or however you stand.

257
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:15,930
Yeah, maybe they should stand because we just going to use our phones.

258
00:34:16,030 --> 00:34:17,350
Come on.

259
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,380
I'm going to do like I've done before many years, squeeze in, folks.

260
00:35:23,810 --> 00:35:28,790
This may be, you know, who knows, the front page of the Wall Street Journal.

261
00:35:30,270 --> 00:35:31,970
Go to you want to get in it?

262
00:35:33,110 --> 00:35:36,350
No, I don't want these folks.

263
00:35:36,730 --> 00:35:39,070
Or you get one, you just get something.

264
00:35:39,650 --> 00:35:40,370
Oh, come on.

265
00:35:41,110 --> 00:35:41,710
I'm here.

266
00:35:42,430 --> 00:35:43,050
She does.

267
00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:45,910
No, I'm a picture tape.

268
00:35:49,010 --> 00:35:49,530
Thank you.

269
00:35:49,550 --> 00:35:53,050
No, thank you.

270
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:01,180
Thank you.

271
00:36:01,420 --> 00:36:02,020
Thank you.

272
00:36:03,820 --> 00:36:04,360
Thank you.

273
00:36:10,910 --> 00:36:11,770
Good job.

274
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:12,750
Thank you.

275
00:36:13,050 --> 00:36:15,370
Thank you for being our photographer.

276
00:36:16,930 --> 00:36:17,530
I'm

277
00:36:20,220 --> 00:36:20,820
so...

278
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,580
Can you just pull it out?

279
00:36:26,500 --> 00:36:27,380
Thank you.

280
00:36:29,820 --> 00:36:30,260
Thank you.

281
00:36:30,260 --> 00:36:30,280
Thank you.

282
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:30,300
Thank you.

283
00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:30,920
You're very welcome.

284
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,120
To you and to everyone on the Appearance Commission.

285
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,700
Thank you, guys, for all the work you do all year round.

286
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,300
And what a wonderful opportunity we have to recognize some of our community members.

287
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,300
And we appreciate that you all put the effort into making it happen.

288
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:52,400
For next year, you mentioned that you appreciate our and the community's involvement in that process.

289
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,880
How does our community know that the nominations are open for next year?

290
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:05,100
Well, they are posted. We post them on the town website. Okay, perfect. As well as we have

291
00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:10,460
three signs that go out telling as they walk around town nominations are open for

292
00:37:10,460 --> 00:37:11,240
Scroozing up.

293
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:11,960
Seven times.

294
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:12,660
Perfect.

295
00:37:13,020 --> 00:37:13,120
Okay.

296
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,280
So there are several venues that we go to.

297
00:37:15,340 --> 00:37:16,600
Social media.

298
00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:18,020
Social media too.

299
00:37:18,020 --> 00:37:18,180
And then on.

300
00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:19,200
Okay.

301
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:19,540
Yeah.

302
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:20,620
Towns, social media.

303
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:21,280
Okay.

304
00:37:22,260 --> 00:37:25,060
We're going to do a smaller version in the water bill.

305
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:25,900
Okay.

306
00:37:26,100 --> 00:37:30,200
Next year, we did last year, but we're going to be doing a smaller version of it.

307
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:30,940
It'll be there.

308
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:31,320
Okay.

309
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:31,460
Good.

310
00:37:31,660 --> 00:37:33,700
A reminder to always be the insert in our water bill.

311
00:37:34,260 --> 00:37:35,120
Thank you.

312
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:40,440
Thank you.

313
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,600
to recognize some people. I just also want to start our meeting by saying that I received

314
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,400
to call it 8 o'clock this morning with a compliment to our planning department. So,

315
00:37:48,620 --> 00:37:52,560
AJ, I've already told you that I received that call. What a great way to start my day

316
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,440
to you and all of your team that's here and not here. Thank you guys for all the work you

317
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,600
do. Thank you. Thank you.

318
00:37:57,940 --> 00:37:58,060
All

319
00:38:02,980 --> 00:38:09,120
right. Does anyone else have anything to add before we move to public comment? No. Okay,

320
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,960
we will move on to public comment. We have a timer up here with three minutes. At one

321
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,200
minute you'll get a quick reminder to maybe 30 seconds to wrap up what you're

322
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:25,020
working on and yeah I can see it thank you do we have anyone with a comment okay

323
00:38:28,420 --> 00:38:33,920
seeing none we will move right along okay on to our consent agenda council do

324
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:39,300
you have any questions for our manager or input on our consent agenda if not is

325
00:38:39,300 --> 00:38:40,780
their emotion no

326
00:38:43,630 --> 00:38:48,190
comment I'll move to approve the consent agenda thank you is

327
00:38:48,190 --> 00:38:55,270
in favor by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. And our action items,

328
00:38:56,490 --> 00:39:01,770
our town attorney sent us, oh I guess our assistant time editor forwarded the recommendation

329
00:39:01,770 --> 00:39:06,230
for my town attorney regarding the YMTA. Do you have anything you'd like to say?

330
00:39:07,270 --> 00:39:15,450
My recommendation is no action. Okay. The way I understand it is the ease of this process

331
00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:19,810
Well, to make it easier is just to take no action now.

332
00:39:20,050 --> 00:39:20,510
Correct.

333
00:39:21,210 --> 00:39:23,970
And if you all decide to give them additional time,

334
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:27,030
we will write up the conditions and do another deed.

335
00:39:27,490 --> 00:39:27,570
Okay.

336
00:39:28,770 --> 00:39:33,190
And I think knowing that our community cares a lot about the YMCA,

337
00:39:33,350 --> 00:39:37,790
I want to make sure that it's clear our lack of action is not a reflection

338
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:40,750
of lack of interest for the YMCA.

339
00:39:41,890 --> 00:39:44,010
It's something that we all would like to see advance

340
00:39:45,190 --> 00:39:46,790
but you'll have other thoughts on.

341
00:39:47,790 --> 00:39:49,850
No, thanks for your comments in that.

342
00:39:50,350 --> 00:39:51,650
Just for, since we're in public record,

343
00:39:52,050 --> 00:39:54,470
when was they were having an informational meeting

344
00:39:54,970 --> 00:39:56,210
for the why information?

345
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:58,890
It's not so, but 13th, wasn't it?

346
00:39:59,110 --> 00:39:59,910
You mean the...

347
00:39:59,910 --> 00:40:00,870
The one at the...

348
00:40:00,870 --> 00:40:01,590
Yeah, they were hosting.

349
00:40:02,050 --> 00:40:03,870
I would have said 10th off the top of my head,

350
00:40:03,970 --> 00:40:04,830
but I can't remember.

351
00:40:04,930 --> 00:40:06,610
I know I've signed it for it, but...

352
00:40:07,090 --> 00:40:08,490
I don't know, maybe the 13th.

353
00:40:08,490 --> 00:40:09,950
I know it's in the minutes that you adopted.

354
00:40:10,650 --> 00:40:10,970
It is.

355
00:40:11,530 --> 00:40:12,450
I thought about it.

356
00:40:12,450 --> 00:40:15,830
So where's the best place for the public to sign up?

357
00:40:15,950 --> 00:40:16,710
You said you signed up in?

358
00:40:17,330 --> 00:40:17,790
I did.

359
00:40:18,410 --> 00:40:22,070
You can actually call the Center in Western Impines

360
00:40:22,070 --> 00:40:23,730
and sign up that way if you want to.

361
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:29,530
You can also go on the town website, I think.

362
00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:32,270
There's the QR code there that you can use.

363
00:40:32,670 --> 00:40:34,070
There was a QR code and the information

364
00:40:34,070 --> 00:40:37,790
we received last meeting that you can use.

365
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:40,810
I don't know if the YMCA has that posted anywhere else.

366
00:40:40,830 --> 00:40:41,330
I'm not sure.

367
00:40:41,330 --> 00:40:47,450
but I was I signed up digitally through the information that I had and then I

368
00:40:47,450 --> 00:40:52,370
also talked to somebody from the Center in Western and Pines and they took my

369
00:40:52,370 --> 00:40:54,950
registration in case the original registration hadn't worked.

370
00:40:55,970 --> 00:40:59,570
Reagan can we get that link just added either to social media or the town

371
00:40:59,570 --> 00:41:03,070
website. Yes we can do that and looking at your minutes it is

372
00:41:03,070 --> 00:41:07,730
October 13th at the land and housing trust auditorium it says daytime but

373
00:41:07,730 --> 00:41:09,590
but there's not an hour here, so I forget about that.

374
00:41:09,590 --> 00:41:12,270
It is daytime and it was a 9.30.

375
00:41:12,670 --> 00:41:13,610
Tell them I remembered that.

376
00:41:13,830 --> 00:41:15,030
It was 9 to 10.30.

377
00:41:15,130 --> 00:41:17,130
It was, you and I were both concerned how early it was.

378
00:41:17,210 --> 00:41:17,950
Right, right.

379
00:41:19,190 --> 00:41:23,170
And their explanation was they wanted employees of groups

380
00:41:23,730 --> 00:41:27,710
and towns and schools who would be working during that time

381
00:41:27,710 --> 00:41:29,930
and might therefore make an appearance.

382
00:41:32,030 --> 00:41:34,430
But Dr. Gray and I had the same response

383
00:41:34,430 --> 00:41:39,890
months, that it sounded hard to put a pretty enormous group together at 9 o'clock in the

384
00:41:39,890 --> 00:41:40,190
morning.

385
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:42,550
But I'm going to do it.

386
00:41:43,170 --> 00:41:44,890
Man, I had one quick question on this.

387
00:41:46,410 --> 00:41:51,830
I'm like you said, I'm with you, I'm 100% behind getting a YMCA here and supporting

388
00:41:51,830 --> 00:41:52,150
it.

389
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:59,190
Well, my only question is, as I was looking through this, should the town retain the asset after

390
00:41:59,190 --> 00:42:04,290
October 30th, after September 30th, if we do in Faxe, you have six more months.

391
00:42:04,290 --> 00:42:09,990
to plan. I'm trying to understand what the utility is of resigning a deed, and they're

392
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:14,750
just going to go ahead and plan anyway. It seems like staff worked. It's probably unnecessary.

393
00:42:15,210 --> 00:42:20,430
Is there something legal that I'm missing? Do they need land? If we know we're not going

394
00:42:20,430 --> 00:42:22,070
to do anything with it until that time is up?

395
00:42:22,510 --> 00:42:24,090
I think I'll let the term hardly answer that.

396
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:29,890
Yeah. The idea is to have a clean record in the Register of Deeds office for who has

397
00:42:29,890 --> 00:42:35,450
title to that land and under what conditions and since the conditions under the previous

398
00:42:35,450 --> 00:42:40,190
deed will have expired there wouldn't be anything on record to tell anybody looking

399
00:42:40,190 --> 00:42:46,190
at it what the current status is. So we want to just have a clean record showing who owns

400
00:42:46,190 --> 00:42:47,250
it under conditions.

401
00:42:48,330 --> 00:42:52,810
Okay. And there was a minus. Thank you. There was a minuscule amount that was to be paid

402
00:42:52,810 --> 00:43:00,070
for that land was that actually did the money change hands $5,000 so at this

403
00:43:00,070 --> 00:43:08,170
point after this expires naturally that money would revert back to the YMCA no

404
00:43:08,170 --> 00:43:13,170
ma'am tell me what would happen we will have kept it okay okay because it's

405
00:43:13,170 --> 00:43:17,430
a non-refer-okay understand okay are

406
00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:21,680
there other questions no I'm sorry thank

407
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:21,920
Thank you.

408
00:43:22,420 --> 00:43:25,040
Is there any, we'll be out in motion because it's no action.

409
00:43:26,380 --> 00:43:29,640
So seeing that nothing is necessary, we'll move on to our public hearings.

410
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:34,240
Our first one is the Skyline Manor Bed and Breakfast, conditional rezoning.

411
00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:39,580
Mr. Maddox, good evening.

412
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:40,640
Good evening.

413
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:42,600
Apologies for the delay.

414
00:43:48,020 --> 00:43:49,820
I got through why I'm saying a little faster than I thought.

415
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,660
Madam Clerk, I may require some assistance with our shiny new toys down here.

416
00:44:13,590 --> 00:44:13,950
Never mind.

417
00:44:14,050 --> 00:44:14,770
Just test in your legs.

418
00:44:17,070 --> 00:44:17,710
Thank you.

419
00:44:18,270 --> 00:44:18,730
Thank you.

420
00:44:18,730 --> 00:44:25,730
All right, evening council, Mason Maddox, Planner with the town. I'm the Planner responsible for facilitating this application.

421
00:44:26,370 --> 00:44:32,770
Let's jump right into it. For your orientation, the property is located where that star is. It's right off of U.S.1,

422
00:44:33,610 --> 00:44:37,730
Skyline Manor in, Skyline Manor Road. You'll see Windridge Gardens right next door,

423
00:44:37,990 --> 00:44:42,610
and we're really close to Highland Golf Club, just for your orientation, about halfway between Southern Pines and Vass.

424
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:48,570
This is an outline of the subject property, pretty substantial in size.

425
00:44:49,150 --> 00:44:53,930
There's multiple buildings on the property, but the main one that I want to highlight

426
00:44:53,930 --> 00:44:54,730
is this one.

427
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:57,390
This is what I will refer to as the Manor House.

428
00:44:57,390 --> 00:44:59,970
It is the main principal structure that is being...

429
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:19,660
Meeting proposed to turn into a bed and breakfast in. Interesting enough the applicants have helped me find this postcard of when the same subject property was a guest home and otherwise an in back in the day. So the request is to return this to its former and intended land use as a bed and breakfast.

430
00:45:22,670 --> 00:45:29,870
The zoning is currently all over the place. We have three zoning districts on the subject parcel. The largest one is rural residential.

431
00:45:30,450 --> 00:45:34,330
The application is for a conditional zoning district that would also be rural residential

432
00:45:34,330 --> 00:45:39,370
and that would clean this up tremendously so that staff never has any question of which

433
00:45:39,370 --> 00:45:43,930
one applies and where just a unified district, and I'll get into why that's being requested.

434
00:45:44,670 --> 00:45:48,150
I'll note that next door there already is a conditional zoning district, it's general business

435
00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:52,350
and that is again for those Windritch Gardens, where you buy statues and other things.

436
00:45:54,940 --> 00:46:00,020
The urban transition highway corridor overlay applies for most of the site, that's going

437
00:46:00,020 --> 00:46:05,980
to come into play for two things. That overlay usually impacts new construction, new development

438
00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:10,640
where you can build something. No new construction is proposed with part of this application,

439
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,700
but the applicants are requesting to use a parking area basically on the south side of your screen

440
00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:21,360
and the overlay would dictate that that parking area would violate the parking setbacks and parking

441
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:27,320
minimums, but the applicants have the right to request a deviation from that as part of this process.

442
00:46:28,220 --> 00:46:29,400
I'll touch on that some more.

443
00:46:31,940 --> 00:46:34,800
I'll note, in case it's come up in any of your reading,

444
00:46:35,180 --> 00:46:38,700
state statute actually has a slightly different definition for these uses,

445
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:40,780
and it really just comes down to the unit total.

446
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:42,740
It doesn't really matter for these purposes.

447
00:46:43,140 --> 00:46:45,300
It's a bed and breakfast in under southern pine zoning,

448
00:46:45,660 --> 00:46:47,180
so that's why I'll refer to it as such.

449
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,480
Applications for seven rooms,

450
00:46:50,580 --> 00:46:53,900
the applicants could go up to 12 without having to come back before you all,

451
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:55,020
if approved.

452
00:46:55,020 --> 00:46:55,200
served.

453
00:46:56,700 --> 00:47:02,880
Bed and breakfast in, as we've established, five to 12 rooms, only allowed by conditional

454
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:03,200
zoning.

455
00:47:04,100 --> 00:47:08,600
Yes, it was one historically, but for the sake of the record, and like Max says with

456
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,680
YMSA, let's clean it up and make sure there's no inconsistency.

457
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,700
Two other land uses are also proposed as part of this.

458
00:47:16,740 --> 00:47:20,840
Special home events, so think of your weddings and family gatherings and that sort of thing.

459
00:47:21,340 --> 00:47:24,660
Those are also only allowed in southern pines through conditional zoning.

460
00:47:25,100 --> 00:47:26,300
So we're two for two thus far.

461
00:47:27,100 --> 00:47:31,900
And then the third land use is the keeping of horses, which is already done on site.

462
00:47:32,020 --> 00:47:33,940
We're just adding it in there so there's no inconsistency.

463
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:42,940
The reason the applicants chose a rural residential conditional zoning district is because horse keeping is only allowed in the highlight area.

464
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,540
So that's two keeps it nice and clean that way.

465
00:47:46,340 --> 00:47:50,220
And it's also the predominant zoning that's already on site, so we're keeping it very

466
00:47:50,220 --> 00:47:51,180
clean in that regard.

467
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:55,740
There's a lot going on on this one.

468
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:56,440
I'll walk you through it.

469
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,080
The applicants are proposing separating the land uses on the site.

470
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,180
That is actually coming from fire code and building code and some other concerns.

471
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,780
The manor house that you saw is what would be used as a bed and breakfast in.

472
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,660
And under fire and building codes, that residence, that property would not be able to be used

473
00:48:11,660 --> 00:48:12,920
for special home events.

474
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,040
So where are the special home events happening?

475
00:48:15,620 --> 00:48:20,860
Well, for one, the parking is going to occur in the blue square at the south side of your screen.

476
00:48:21,300 --> 00:48:25,800
And then the actual events will use weddings as they go to example would have to happen at this time,

477
00:48:26,340 --> 00:48:30,300
intense and that sort of thing on the north side of the property farther back from the highway.

478
00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:32,460
But strict separation of those.

479
00:48:34,610 --> 00:48:39,330
And I'll also note that blue square is probably the biggest ask of the whole project just to get that out there.

480
00:48:40,270 --> 00:48:42,330
It's used as a horse trading area at the moment.

481
00:48:42,330 --> 00:48:46,730
the applicants request that it is used for special event parking and I'll

482
00:48:46,730 --> 00:48:50,350
note a couple things about that. The first is that special home events are

483
00:48:50,350 --> 00:48:55,970
limited to no more than 20 a year and 80 guests. The applicants went to the

484
00:48:55,970 --> 00:49:00,170
planning board proposing 80 guests, 80 vehicles, we'd like to park 80 cars there.

485
00:49:00,890 --> 00:49:04,230
They've since revised that at staff's recommendation to come down to 60

486
00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:09,050
vehicles. So the actual ask is to park 60 vehicles in that blue square up to 20

487
00:49:09,050 --> 00:49:14,140
times a year. One of the components that came out of planning board, probably the largest

488
00:49:14,140 --> 00:49:18,660
one, if you saw in the recommendation, is the current proposal is for that traffic,

489
00:49:18,780 --> 00:49:23,480
all that parking, to egress onto US1 when the events are over. And the planning department

490
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:28,720
had not received any comment from the DOT regarding this. So I reached out to the DOT following

491
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:32,740
planning board who essentially said that it may not be an issue at all. They're going

492
00:49:32,740 --> 00:49:37,160
to review it when the time comes. But the applicants have chosen to address this as

493
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:42,600
condition. Basically saying the default is that cars can exit on to us one, but if the

494
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,680
DOC ever has an issue with it, they've got to go back up through the northern part of

495
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,820
the property in down the long ways if you will.

496
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:53,960
I'm not going over every condition, I'll

497
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:58,260
put you to sleep, but here's the big ticket ones that I thought you would care about. It's

498
00:49:58,260 --> 00:50:01,620
only color coded, help it up here on the screen a little bit better so you can disregard the colors

499
00:50:01,620 --> 00:50:08,800
otherwise. Again, three land uses total, that's it. Can't subdivide the property. Hites

500
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:16,780
would normally be 35 feet in the highway corridor or a relay, excuse me, the applicants believe

501
00:50:16,780 --> 00:50:20,720
that the existing man are somewhere between 35 and 40 feet so they're requesting to go up just

502
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:26,320
a little bit. There's a provision that any new construction on site say if they build a former

503
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:32,560
a formal special home event building would have to match the existing home and that's a little caveat

504
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,340
we've carved out for other projects before not complying with the full architectural code

505
00:50:36,340 --> 00:50:38,740
And not being exempt from it either, but something in between.

506
00:50:39,020 --> 00:50:41,700
So they've got to have a lot of brick, and that's the word of thing.

507
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:48,060
Setbacks and maximums, really the only deviation being requested is for that existing area where

508
00:50:48,060 --> 00:50:48,940
horses are being trained.

509
00:50:49,060 --> 00:50:53,280
Again, that blue right there being allowed to exist in function.

510
00:50:53,820 --> 00:50:55,820
I'll put a pin in buffers and landscaping.

511
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:56,620
I've got a pretty picture.

512
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:58,080
It's going to make that make a lot more sense.

513
00:51:00,340 --> 00:51:05,320
Parking, they're actually minimums for bed and breakfast in the UDO, but in complying with

514
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:10,040
state statute that will remove parking minimums come January 1st, 2027. The applicants have

515
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,120
been working with me to go ahead and just get rid of that. So for each land use, bed and breakfast,

516
00:51:14,740 --> 00:51:20,220
up to 12 vehicles part there, right in that orange area around the house. You can see the swimming pool

517
00:51:20,220 --> 00:51:24,920
on your screen right next to the house. And that would also allow for them to go up to 12 rooms if

518
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:30,340
they ever wanted. And then staff is grateful that they have revised to go down to 60 parking spaces

519
00:51:30,340 --> 00:51:35,000
for the special home events. There's a condition that talks about access, just what I mentioned with the

520
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,100
the DOT, making sure that's never a future issue.

521
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,100
And then I encourage that the applicants

522
00:51:41,100 --> 00:51:43,840
add the standards that are already in chapter five

523
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:44,340
of our radio.

524
00:51:45,380 --> 00:51:46,900
Those are standards that cannot be

525
00:51:46,900 --> 00:51:48,560
flexed or modified with conditional zoning.

526
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,160
Maybe a little bit redundant, but when

527
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,320
and if there's ever a complaint or a question

528
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,000
about what can be built, the first document that a planner

529
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,120
is going to pull is going to be that list of conditions.

530
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,340
It's essentially their covenants and restrictions, right?

531
00:52:02,860 --> 00:52:07,160
So, I thought that including about half a page is that everything else that's required

532
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,540
would make it nice and tidy for us, doesn't add that much length, and that way if anything

533
00:52:11,540 --> 00:52:15,460
ever changes in our video, we know exactly what the bed and breakfast standards and these

534
00:52:15,460 --> 00:52:16,500
special event standards are.

535
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:18,800
So, query at this point.

536
00:52:19,100 --> 00:52:24,300
You say chapter five says 80 gas, and you said 60 gas.

537
00:52:24,660 --> 00:52:25,860
60 vehicles, ma'am.

538
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,400
60 vehicles, but there is 80 gas.

539
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:28,980
Correct.

540
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:29,540
Okay.

541
00:52:29,980 --> 00:52:30,180
All right.

542
00:52:30,180 --> 00:52:35,900
Thank you. And the applicants cannot request more because the provision to request more isn't in Chapter 5 of our UDO.

543
00:52:36,100 --> 00:52:51,920
So, 80 guests. And did you say that events would not, can we go back to the map with the events would not take place and the area where the manner is in the actual house because of fire code concerns.

544
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,300
The applicants that originally reached out to our fire department about using their

545
00:52:55,780 --> 00:53:01,700
port to Shea like the right right as you know having wedding pictures and things taken under it but fire

546
00:53:01,700 --> 00:53:09,360
code says no so if there is an event explain to me if there is an event with 80 people what

547
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,620
give me a colored area where that takes place is it take place in the orange area just outside of

548
00:53:14,620 --> 00:53:19,400
the main house is that what's happening yes man they have to stay away from the house okay in the

549
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:20,360
You got it.

550
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:22,700
And the fire code on the manner is how many?

551
00:53:23,860 --> 00:53:29,100
There actually isn't an occupancy as far as people goes, because it's not at the full

552
00:53:29,100 --> 00:53:33,580
commercial code, I say a hotel, but they're proposing seven rooms and they could have up

553
00:53:33,580 --> 00:53:37,320
to 12 guest rooms, and that's what's regulated, number of rooms.

554
00:53:38,140 --> 00:53:39,140
And 12 parking spaces.

555
00:53:39,220 --> 00:53:41,040
With no regulation for a number of people in the room.

556
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:43,560
Technically not.

557
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:51,380
So the UDO says number of guests is the heading and an under number of guests, it talks about the number of rooms.

558
00:53:52,340 --> 00:53:54,580
So there's a bit of a thing there.

559
00:53:54,700 --> 00:53:58,500
I did bring this up with the fire marshal and said, hey, there's no capacity on the number of people.

560
00:53:58,900 --> 00:54:01,640
Does that concern you and your department for safety reasons?

561
00:54:01,940 --> 00:54:03,500
And at this time, it did not.

562
00:54:04,020 --> 00:54:08,600
Might that be something to look toward in regard to just clarity within the UDO?

563
00:54:08,660 --> 00:54:10,400
Not specifically to this case.

564
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,860
but might that be something that we want to address as far as just the UDO in general?

565
00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:20,420
I think that's a fair ask. Yeah. I would be interested in making sure we all know the rules of the

566
00:54:20,420 --> 00:54:27,100
game and noted that we're basically doing a cleanup here later tonight on UDO. So if we could add

567
00:54:27,100 --> 00:54:33,580
that to the cleanup list, that'd be great. No, no, we can't. No, I mean, not tonight. Oh,

568
00:54:33,580 --> 00:54:39,480
future. That would be some pretty remarkable turnaround. No. I'm not asking.

569
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:47,240
Yes.

570
00:54:48,300 --> 00:54:49,940
We want to do some research on that.

571
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,060
Right. In terms of how

572
00:55:10,290 --> 00:55:12,130
we do it in a room. Right.

573
00:55:12,590 --> 00:55:17,320
See that I carefully. I'm not sure about that. It's only going to be an appropriate tool

574
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:17,840
to regulate.

575
00:55:21,630 --> 00:55:24,790
Okay. Well, I would be really interested to have you look into that.

576
00:55:24,830 --> 00:55:33,140
I would like for you to think spring break. I would like for you to think 14 people.

577
00:55:33,140 --> 00:55:39,260
14 people in the motel room, you were once young, as was I.

578
00:55:39,260 --> 00:55:43,160
So the concern is you just want to make sure there aren't too many people.

579
00:55:43,740 --> 00:55:45,840
Yeah, I would like for it to not become a party room.

580
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,520
And I would think that the owners would not let that happen.

581
00:55:49,700 --> 00:55:54,140
But I also think that would be really nice to have that clarity within the UDO.

582
00:55:54,860 --> 00:55:58,700
And I understand you're concerned about family.

583
00:55:59,940 --> 00:56:05,000
If it's a family of five and you have a restriction of four people, then do you leave a child in the hallway now?

584
00:56:08,780 --> 00:56:09,260
Right.

585
00:56:09,620 --> 00:56:10,100
There's

586
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:23,900
research in any public or work session.

587
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,120
And I would look so forward to your information.

588
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:28,760
Thank you.

589
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:34,620
I will add to that conversation that the parking for the actual manner is limited to 12.

590
00:56:35,300 --> 00:56:41,340
And so if they have more guests than that and that parking goes into the blue area, it's technically violation of the zoning.

591
00:56:42,020 --> 00:56:44,200
because that blue area is for special home events.

592
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,280
Okay, my other following question is about the 40-foot height,

593
00:56:48,460 --> 00:56:52,420
which we believe perhaps is building that already exists is 40 feet.

594
00:56:52,780 --> 00:56:53,180
We don't know.

595
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,780
It's 38 to possibly 40.

596
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:56,920
Is that right?

597
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,080
That is according to the applicants themselves, yes, ma'am.

598
00:56:59,200 --> 00:56:59,380
Okay.

599
00:57:00,100 --> 00:57:09,320
And so are we are we allowing other structures to be built within that 40 feet?

600
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:14,060
And what exactly what are we accomplishing with the 40 foot the default for

601
00:57:14,060 --> 00:57:19,020
anything that is newly built. Without the zoning would be 35 feet they're

602
00:57:19,020 --> 00:57:22,780
asking for an additional five so that if something else were to be added on

603
00:57:22,780 --> 00:57:27,500
per se it would match the height of the existing structure. So what do you mean by

604
00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:31,720
something else would be added on to the original to the original manner to the

605
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:37,380
original manner or a special home events sensor if you will maybe like a

606
00:57:37,380 --> 00:57:43,400
ballroom. None of that has been proposed at this time by the applicants. So we're trying

607
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:48,520
to mitigate how and what would regulate them building down the line. There was one square

608
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:54,340
that said potential future, but it was a small square. It is in your staff report good

609
00:57:54,340 --> 00:58:00,180
catch. It is actually for a cottage that's about right here. And the applicants are considering

610
00:58:00,180 --> 00:58:03,020
using that as maybe a bridal suite or something similar at a later date.

611
00:58:03,020 --> 00:58:10,100
But if they build a ballroom or something that is large on this property, and we have

612
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:18,550
already re-zoned it CZ, is there a process that will go through at which point you all

613
00:58:18,550 --> 00:58:24,510
say, well, that's too much, or I guess what is allowed by right once we go through this

614
00:58:24,510 --> 00:58:25,330
conditional zoning?

615
00:58:27,900 --> 00:58:32,820
The process would follow our standard site plan review process and our architectural compliance.

616
00:58:32,820 --> 00:58:44,620
as far as what triggers too much, I think staff would look closely at the scope of what they're proposing and if it's first subordinate to the land uses, that's one thing can't be an arcade, right?

617
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:52,540
That's not in here, but would we say that a gathering space for weddings is a part of special events? I think staff would say yes.

618
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,240
And then we would look into making sure that that complies.

619
00:58:55,240 --> 00:59:01,660
I think it's still be limited to the 80 people accessing the CZ zoning we're doing tonight like even if they build a massive ballroom

620
00:59:01,660 --> 00:59:05,600
They're still limited to 80 people unless they change the zoning is that correct?

621
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:12,480
Not quite 80 is a limit from chapter five so they cannot request a change the only authority that can make

622
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:19,060
The limit of 80 deaths for special moments a hundred is you all with the text of the minute which is not proposed at this time

623
00:59:20,700 --> 00:59:22,760
So is there a disadvantage to

624
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:32,840
So, maintaining the 35-foot height limitation with the exception of the possible already existing height of the mana.

625
00:59:33,900 --> 00:59:40,860
The great question, the already existing height would be if anything, maybe a non-conformative grandfathered in, right?

626
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:41,340
Right.

627
00:59:41,740 --> 00:59:50,080
So, I will let the applicant speak since they are here this evening and I'll see their comfort with the height, because they have given me additional comments that might inform your decision.

628
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:51,260
Thank you.

629
00:59:52,340 --> 00:59:54,960
I think I definitely have questions for applicants when we get there.

630
00:59:59,280 --> 00:59:59,980
Otherwise, I-

631
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:29,860
I promised you some review on buffering and landscaping. This is not to scale, but it's pretty darn close because I drew it myself to help. The applicant's actually supplied all other images and have worked very closely with staff to make all of that happen. And you can tell that their work is much more superior than my ability to draw on a map. So not to scale, but just to give you an idea. The dark green 50 foot buffer, no changes there. That would be what staff determines would be the default. And again, nothing is being proposed at this time.

632
01:00:29,860 --> 01:00:32,620
that also influences a bit of why the buffers are what they are.

633
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,800
The green that goes around most of the site, the light green 25 feet, all of these buffers

634
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:41,680
mind you, undisturbed. The biggest ask is for the existing parking area.

635
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,400
The proposal is to go down to 20 feet adjacent to U.S.1 right there

636
01:00:47,060 --> 01:00:51,540
and five feet on this side. I'll note a couple things about that. How is this area to find without a

637
01:00:51,540 --> 01:00:56,020
leap? Well, this area is existing and it's being used for horses at the moment. It's dirt

638
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:02,280
and it is bound by gravel on this side and on this side so that area that is bound would not be

639
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:09,660
able to expand upon staff's review. This would be the smallest buffer at five feet. It is adjacent to a

640
01:01:09,660 --> 01:01:16,400
commercial property that is owned general business conditionals owning district. As a default, if that

641
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:22,900
adjacent property was not a conditional zoning district, general business may not have the same

642
01:01:22,900 --> 01:01:29,300
offering requirements. All of this is done to allow for something that's already there

643
01:01:29,300 --> 01:01:34,620
without expanding it, if that makes sense. The applicants have agreed to not touch anything

644
01:01:34,620 --> 01:01:40,060
within these colored areas, and that is their concept of mitigating concerns on neighboring

645
01:01:40,060 --> 01:01:40,560
properties.

646
01:01:45,350 --> 01:01:50,310
Landscaping conditions would essentially follow and say that the buffers aren't touched,

647
01:01:50,490 --> 01:01:54,350
that everything around that perimeter is kept nice and clean. That's the short hand.

648
01:01:54,350 --> 01:01:58,910
And someone owns the land on the other side of that five-foot buffer.

649
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:59,970
Correct.

650
01:02:00,590 --> 01:02:06,270
And if the person on the other side of that five-foot buffer builds all way up against their land, five feet son-a-lot.

651
01:02:07,290 --> 01:02:07,610
Right.

652
01:02:07,850 --> 01:02:11,050
If they build up against their land is he.

653
01:02:12,690 --> 01:02:17,310
Also present this evening we're very lucky we have the applicants and the adjacent property owners, so I might have to defer some.

654
01:02:17,590 --> 01:02:17,730
Okay.

655
01:02:18,130 --> 01:02:18,350
Yes.

656
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:25,530
I'll just go through criteria A and B, criteria A and A and B, can I prefer that?

657
01:02:25,630 --> 01:02:29,350
Just a cliff notes version, if you will, consistency with the comprehensive plan, our plan

658
01:02:29,350 --> 01:02:34,610
explicitly calls for reinvesting in existing properties, some form of infill in its own

659
01:02:34,610 --> 01:02:37,510
right, if you will, especially as sort properties.

660
01:02:38,310 --> 01:02:41,070
And then place-based tourism is spelled out within our comprehensive plan.

661
01:02:41,570 --> 01:02:45,550
And staff believes that this proposal would do both of those, revitalizing a former business

662
01:02:45,550 --> 01:02:52,030
from 110 years ago as a bed and breakfast and then I also wanted to highlight adverse impacts.

663
01:02:52,410 --> 01:03:04,630
It is staff's belief that the parking area and that blue while limited to 20 events per year is negligible and a maximum of 80 guests.

664
01:03:04,970 --> 01:03:12,630
If this were around the clock for commercial business, I think we would be having a very different conversation but it is staff's perspective because these are limited to 20 times a year.

665
01:03:13,830 --> 01:03:15,530
The risk is much smaller.

666
01:03:15,530 --> 01:03:22,500
Staff find the proposal be consistent with all of the other criteria for reasons listed

667
01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:23,300
in your staff report.

668
01:03:24,860 --> 01:03:28,760
I do want to know really quickly since this is legislative that the first inquiry came

669
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:35,600
about a year ago to me and the applicants have since worked tirelessly to attempt to mitigate

670
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,340
as many concerns as they possibly could.

671
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:43,360
I have had very few applicants that have come back to me with a list of conditions saying

672
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:47,620
how about now? And I take a look and I grade the homework if you will. And then a week later,

673
01:03:47,780 --> 01:03:51,620
how about now? And we have done that over the course of many, many months. So this list of

674
01:03:51,620 --> 01:03:55,920
conditions is not something submitted to you last week. The planning just looks at. It has been

675
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:02,860
in progress for a very long time. If it your discretion in each week, that's one thing. But I'm

676
01:04:02,860 --> 01:04:07,640
very grateful to work with Tristan and her husband Nick to make this happen.

677
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,880
and to bring you something that's ideally not sloppy.

678
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:16,160
They have set the gold stars to what planning staff can expect from applicants and communicating

679
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:21,300
with us, being transparent and allowing us to visit the site and just work on this.

680
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:22,820
That's the standard.

681
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:30,680
It is for the reasons of consistency that staff ultimately recommend approval of the conditional

682
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:32,760
zoning district that would allow for three land uses.

683
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:39,640
is, as is, I will let the applicants answer any questions as well as perhaps the adjacent

684
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:43,720
property owner. I'll let them come up with this. Before you sit down, let me just make

685
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:49,640
sure this council have questions from us from Attics right now. Okay, thank you. We'll

686
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:53,580
pull you back up if we have more. Yes, please, ma'am. Yes, please.

687
01:04:58,870 --> 01:04:59,570
Good evening, council.

688
01:05:00,030 --> 01:05:03,590
Good evening. Would you guys like to introduce yourselves? Yes, I'm Tristan and this is my

689
01:05:03,590 --> 01:05:08,090
has been Nick. Nick Williams, pleasure to meet you. We are a long time residents. Army

690
01:05:08,090 --> 01:05:12,110
brought us here. So Nick is still in. I'm a veteran. And between us we've been here

691
01:05:12,110 --> 01:05:19,130
probably over to well over 20 years. Yeah, well, over 20. Thank you. Absolutely. So I know

692
01:05:19,130 --> 01:05:24,230
I have some questions. Do you all have questions for the applicant? Okay, start wherever you would like.

693
01:05:25,870 --> 01:05:32,310
Go ahead. Yeah, I guess I'll be first. My question is in the past when Ben breakfast

694
01:05:32,310 --> 01:05:36,510
to ask us come up, neighbors have been very vocal against it.

695
01:05:37,290 --> 01:05:39,610
I know you got a commercial aspect inside of it, but I do see

696
01:05:40,090 --> 01:05:44,030
Tin and Root or the other, there are like house houses around the property.

697
01:05:44,470 --> 01:05:46,470
Have you had communications with those surrounding neighbors

698
01:05:47,130 --> 01:05:49,170
as far as their, have they been notified?

699
01:05:49,490 --> 01:05:51,990
Have you talked to them, or what's that interaction that I'm like?

700
01:05:52,370 --> 01:05:54,830
Yes, so as part of the process, they were all notified.

701
01:05:54,990 --> 01:05:57,610
They received letters in the mail inviting them to the public hearing for

702
01:05:58,010 --> 01:05:59,790
the planning board and also this meeting.

703
01:05:59,790 --> 01:06:03,830
And so we did have a couple of neighbors show up to the planning board meeting, one just

704
01:06:03,830 --> 01:06:06,830
had some concerns about traffic and noise, which is exactly what we expected.

705
01:06:07,570 --> 01:06:11,270
Neighbors would think, and I do think we were able to sort of mitigate those concerns

706
01:06:11,270 --> 01:06:11,670
for him.

707
01:06:11,970 --> 01:06:12,910
He's not good tonight, so.

708
01:06:14,110 --> 01:06:19,910
And then our other neighbor, the Long Streets, who on that general, it's the general business,

709
01:06:20,070 --> 01:06:21,370
commercial, sorry, who is it?

710
01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:27,390
Conditional districts, yes, which is directly adjacent our supporters, which is great.

711
01:06:27,390 --> 01:06:34,310
So, we haven't really had any, it doesn't seem like we have any outstanding issues that haven't been able to be resolved from neighbors.

712
01:06:34,990 --> 01:06:39,830
Was that something that was posted and the letters sent?

713
01:06:40,410 --> 01:06:40,530
Yes.

714
01:06:40,950 --> 01:06:41,090
Okay.

715
01:06:42,310 --> 01:06:44,430
How did you address the traffic concerns?

716
01:06:45,410 --> 01:06:52,630
So, the egress on the highway one was our main proposal for that, which are understandings that we will have to obtain a driveway permit

717
01:06:52,630 --> 01:06:54,310
if a DOT doesn't see any obstacles to that.

718
01:06:54,590 --> 01:06:57,230
So at night, when people are going to be, you know,

719
01:06:57,310 --> 01:06:58,330
driving out with their headlights on,

720
01:06:58,470 --> 01:06:59,710
rather than driving through the neighborhood,

721
01:06:59,950 --> 01:07:01,230
they can just go straight on to the highway.

722
01:07:01,970 --> 01:07:02,950
That's our vision for it.

723
01:07:03,650 --> 01:07:06,270
And then, of course, the ordinance also

724
01:07:06,270 --> 01:07:08,010
just regulates the number of guests,

725
01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:09,490
and then we have proposed that condition

726
01:07:09,490 --> 01:07:10,730
for limiting the number of vehicles.

727
01:07:12,780 --> 01:07:18,620
And at some point, if DOT says you cannot access U.S.1,

728
01:07:20,020 --> 01:07:21,360
is there a chance that that happens?

729
01:07:22,100 --> 01:07:26,120
There is and there is a condition in place that the applicants have added following the

730
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:30,060
planning board, which essentially says whatever the DOC, the DOT says goes.

731
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:36,320
So if US1 is now too much, then you have to go up through Skyline Manor Road and onto

732
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:37,640
Valley View to exit.

733
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:43,500
Yeah, which I had a quick question.

734
01:07:45,860 --> 01:07:46,660
My good May.

735
01:07:47,020 --> 01:07:48,020
I know if you wanted to follow up.

736
01:07:48,020 --> 01:07:48,980
Go ahead, no, go ahead.

737
01:07:49,420 --> 01:07:51,480
For what I'm understanding right now,

738
01:07:53,370 --> 01:07:54,970
right now you can have 80 guests,

739
01:07:55,550 --> 01:07:57,250
but all 80 can't go into the manner.

740
01:07:57,550 --> 01:07:57,750
Correct.

741
01:07:57,990 --> 01:08:01,090
So right now it stands, everything's an outside event.

742
01:08:01,430 --> 01:08:02,030
Yes, that's correct.

743
01:08:02,330 --> 01:08:07,200
And you foresee that unfolding for quite some time,

744
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,480
and that's why we're looking for 60 parking spots

745
01:08:10,140 --> 01:08:12,060
in the horse-go-around.

746
01:08:12,540 --> 01:08:13,000
That's all correct.

747
01:08:13,180 --> 01:08:16,640
Yes, so the only people that could go inside the manner

748
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:18,000
would be any overnight guests.

749
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:19,960
So like, you know, maxing out with seven rooms,

750
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:25,180
seven rooms worth of guests. The other guests would have to be in tents, tables, and chairs on the

751
01:08:25,180 --> 01:08:30,440
lawn with outside restroom facilities. So it would probably be one of those like port-of-pilot

752
01:08:30,440 --> 01:08:36,500
party trailers that you can rent. So and I'm just I'm trying to go through the the types of events

753
01:08:36,500 --> 01:08:44,300
that would be held here. So we were talking like outdoor I'm not talking Metallica like outdoor

754
01:08:44,300 --> 01:08:51,580
concerts and things of that nature. I just wanted to clear that you know obviously some sort of family

755
01:08:51,580 --> 01:08:54,540
events that would be like that and then hopefully down the road you'll look into transition

756
01:08:54,540 --> 01:09:00,260
to where you could bring in. I think I saw somewhere here like weddings and things of that nature

757
01:09:00,260 --> 01:09:06,140
or bridal things around bridal showers and things. I never went to a bridal shower. I'm just

758
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:11,680
you know right off the bat. That's correct. That's correct. Yes. And so that only brings me

759
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:16,300
my only concern because I think it's a great idea. Love the fact that you're remodeling some

760
01:09:16,300 --> 01:09:23,380
history or you're reusing history. I'm kind of a history nerd and I'm proud of it. But

761
01:09:24,340 --> 01:09:28,980
as you grow and as things get bigger, I think that's where we get back to, you know,

762
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:33,960
ensuring that we're wire tight on the sides of the scope of the buildings and what your growth looks

763
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:37,720
like. And I'm not here to tell you how that's going to look and go, but I think that's the only

764
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:42,200
concern I would have is how did you you know because I want you to be extremely successful

765
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:48,240
my honest with you sorry to put you off no you did not I needed to be cut off good I'll ramble

766
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:54,300
my understanding is that the conditions set forth by the zoning by the um special home events

767
01:09:54,300 --> 01:10:00,420
ordinance they will not change even if we like decide that we want to and again we don't have any

768
01:10:00,420 --> 01:10:06,340
plans to do this but hypothetically speaking if we were to put in a ballroom or something um nothing

769
01:10:06,340 --> 01:10:10,500
on here would change. It would still be limited to 80 guests. We would still be bound by 60 vehicles.

770
01:10:10,820 --> 01:10:15,560
There would still be no, you know, and fun music a lot outside. And honestly, Metallica's not going

771
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:20,600
to come to play for 80 people anyway, so I think we're safe. Thank you. And to really put a,

772
01:10:20,660 --> 01:10:24,720
you know, a finer point on it, you know, what our vision is, we've already executed. We got

773
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:28,960
many. We had our wedding there. We got Mary. So what we have in our heads, we've done. And it works.

774
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:33,580
It works. It works wonderful. Yeah. That's awesome. Thank you. Absolutely.

775
01:10:36,660 --> 01:10:39,440
Well, first of all, congratulations on your marriage.

776
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:43,100
Secondly, thank you very much for your service in both cases.

777
01:10:43,460 --> 01:10:44,360
I really appreciate that.

778
01:10:46,580 --> 01:10:50,240
And next, as a woman who owns a 100-year-old house,

779
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:51,280
I appreciate what you're doing.

780
01:10:52,900 --> 01:10:57,240
My two concerns are the 40-foot height.

781
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,620
And I certainly don't want to ask you to shave off the top

782
01:11:00,620 --> 01:11:05,320
of the existing manor house, so we're not sure how tall it is, but I am interested in whether

783
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:10,700
or not you do willing to abide by a 35-foot height restriction with the exception possibly

784
01:11:10,700 --> 01:11:12,820
of the manor house that we have an unknown height on.

785
01:11:13,500 --> 01:11:20,340
And I'm also concerned about the five-foot buffer, which is like for you to address the steps

786
01:11:20,340 --> 01:11:27,540
that you have moved through with that neighbor, the adjacent neighbor, who I think is here.

787
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:45,380
So tell me that tell me that you're in science regarding business things. Yes, so the 40 foot height was basically similar to the architectural compliance is just to match the existing manner to the extent possible.

788
01:11:45,580 --> 01:11:52,820
We believe it's probably taller than 35 feet. We don't have a specific number on that. Yes, we would be willing to doubt that back down to the default standard.

789
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:58,220
So you'd be willing to make that a 35-foot highway through extension.

790
01:11:58,480 --> 01:11:58,540
Yes.

791
01:11:58,900 --> 01:12:02,520
Okay, talk to me about the five-foot buffer and what I know you've jumped through some

792
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:07,580
hoops in regard to that and you want to keep your width of your parking area in order to

793
01:12:07,580 --> 01:12:10,340
be able to accommodate the cars that you're entitled to have.

794
01:12:10,580 --> 01:12:12,480
So talk to me about your thought process.

795
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:16,660
So that area, which you can see it's in the blue, is an existing pasture.

796
01:12:16,660 --> 01:12:23,040
So, it's dirt and grass and it is bounded on almost all sides by, you know, the typical wood

797
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:24,360
and fencing that you see around a pasture.

798
01:12:25,260 --> 01:12:30,060
On that left-hand side, it is open other than, you know, there's some long-leaf fines there.

799
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:35,120
But our exemptions that we're requesting are all to reflect the existing landscape, essentially.

800
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:37,300
So, on U.S. one, there is a buffer.

801
01:12:38,300 --> 01:12:43,640
On the north side of that part of the land, there is a buffer and then just on that side

802
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:50,040
with the gravel driveway, there's just not a significant existing buffer. So our thought is,

803
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:55,900
again, just like Mason said, because it's going to be sort of a temporary or secondary use,

804
01:12:56,020 --> 01:13:01,220
whereas the horse training and jumping lessons will remain the primary use. It's sort of a risk

805
01:13:01,220 --> 01:13:07,960
trade-off, but we certainly aren't going to take out anything in that area. It's just a reflection

806
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:15,200
of the existing situation. So really a 25 foot undisturbed buffer, nothing's there. So it's no

807
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:19,580
difference. No, there is there is something there. So we're going to clear out something. No,

808
01:13:19,660 --> 01:13:23,860
we're not planning to clear anything. Okay. So and it's because each side is different and to

809
01:13:23,860 --> 01:13:28,740
reflect the pretty much we literally took a tape measure out and we measured what is the existing

810
01:13:28,740 --> 01:13:34,900
tree line here. Okay. So on that side that like dark blue, there is about 25, it's about 22.

811
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:37,900
So

812
01:13:37,900 --> 01:13:43,700
and shrubs. On that north side, like the green, there is a pretty significant buffer there.

813
01:13:44,220 --> 01:13:49,460
It's just that light blue side that has a few trees, but especially towards the middle of the

814
01:13:49,460 --> 01:13:51,120
pasture, it's just more minimal.

815
01:13:54,060 --> 01:14:01,520
And so the buffer on US one would be mandated to be a 20-foot

816
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:03,620
but you're telling me it's actually a 25.

817
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:05,720
It's about 22, I'd say.

818
01:14:06,420 --> 01:14:07,720
But undisturbed buffer.

819
01:14:08,780 --> 01:14:10,480
Well, 22 current buffer.

820
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:11,820
It's not a two current buffer, right?

821
01:14:14,340 --> 01:14:16,720
And talk to me about conversations

822
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:20,340
with adjacent property owners who would share the land

823
01:14:20,340 --> 01:14:22,900
or would have the adjacent land right next to that five foot

824
01:14:22,900 --> 01:14:23,740
undisturbed buffer.

825
01:14:24,180 --> 01:14:26,520
Our neighbor from what he has told us

826
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:28,900
is fine with the situation and has no plans

827
01:14:28,900 --> 01:14:33,280
to clear the land or take down any trees as well, but I don't want to speak for him.

828
01:14:33,620 --> 01:14:33,840
He is here.

829
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:35,520
The neighbor is here on the scene.

830
01:14:35,900 --> 01:14:36,040
Yes.

831
01:14:36,340 --> 01:14:37,820
Our friends at the Long Streets.

832
01:14:37,940 --> 01:14:37,960
Yes.

833
01:14:38,440 --> 01:14:38,680
Okay.

834
01:14:41,900 --> 01:14:46,760
The way I see it is we're making decisions not just for you all and for the current neighbors

835
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:53,040
is we're making a decision for the future of this property and whatever it's going to be.

836
01:14:54,460 --> 01:14:59,140
And I think that's where Miss Peterson and I are falling maybe a little bit uncomfortable

837
01:14:59,140 --> 01:14:59,780
with the 5.

838
01:15:12,130 --> 01:15:14,550
That's where, I feel like it's,

839
01:15:16,850 --> 01:15:33,530
I would probably prefer more than five feet on that one. Tell me, are you done? Sorry. Tell me in the parking area. Have you guys done some sort of a study as far as being able to get parking on both sides and having enough room to pay for the buyer?

840
01:15:33,530 --> 01:15:37,430
back up. I mean if you thought through all that, is that what's guiding part of what

841
01:15:37,430 --> 01:15:41,690
you're doing? Yes. And also, as far as the buffers that we're talking, it's what's

842
01:15:41,690 --> 01:15:46,230
actually there now. So we're planning this based upon the existing trees that are in

843
01:15:46,230 --> 01:15:51,650
the ground. So that's what my question earlier was undisturbed buffers the same as, I mean,

844
01:15:51,790 --> 01:15:56,770
it's a 50 foot undisturbed buffer because there's no buffer. Mason, I mean, if there's no

845
01:15:56,770 --> 01:16:00,390
trees and we call it undisturbed, they can't take down the trees that don't exist.

846
01:16:00,390 --> 01:16:00,470
Yes.

847
01:16:00,950 --> 01:16:02,110
I don't know what the difference is.

848
01:16:02,170 --> 01:16:07,290
Except doesn't it trigger a planting requirement if there's nothing there at certain points?

849
01:16:07,630 --> 01:16:08,730
I'm not under undisturbed.

850
01:16:08,850 --> 01:16:09,890
I don't know.

851
01:16:10,490 --> 01:16:12,550
Under this zoning it would not trigger planting requirements.

852
01:16:12,570 --> 01:16:12,830
I would not.

853
01:16:13,010 --> 01:16:13,130
Okay.

854
01:16:13,650 --> 01:16:18,810
There is significant amount of tree coverage within that dark green adjacent to US one.

855
01:16:20,050 --> 01:16:24,270
The applicant said that they are requesting buffers based on the widths of that which is

856
01:16:24,270 --> 01:16:24,730
already present.

857
01:16:26,650 --> 01:16:27,130
Okay.

858
01:16:27,130 --> 01:16:36,370
Mason, what is, this is a question I shouldn't know the answer to and I apologize that I don't, what is the highway overlay buffer that's required?

859
01:16:37,250 --> 01:16:44,530
50 feet man. So they are choosing to comply with as much as possible with the exception of the parking area.

860
01:16:44,530 --> 01:16:45,270
I

861
01:16:49,020 --> 01:16:56,700
can make some real quick describe a few, if it were to remain strictly a horse facility

862
01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:01,860
and not parking, would the conversation be different and if so, what would that be?

863
01:17:02,500 --> 01:17:04,960
There would be a very different conversation, very question.

864
01:17:05,180 --> 01:17:09,080
The applicants would have to choose where if they would allocate that parking for special

865
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:09,780
events otherwise.

866
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:10,420
Okay.

867
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:11,180
Yep.

868
01:17:11,820 --> 01:17:13,220
That's the quagmire where I got it.

869
01:17:13,480 --> 01:17:13,740
Thank you.

870
01:17:13,740 --> 01:17:20,680
A lot of this is driven by a desire to utilize something that is existing as cleared instead

871
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:22,160
of clearing alternative space.

872
01:17:22,540 --> 01:17:22,620
Right.

873
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:24,400
I appreciate that.

874
01:17:24,580 --> 01:17:25,300
I understand.

875
01:17:28,260 --> 01:17:33,260
So totally unrelated, probably a question for you, Mr. Parsons.

876
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:41,760
In regard to highway overlay, which is a hot issue right now, other municipalities have

877
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:47,700
of past resolutions in favor of maintaining the highway

878
01:17:47,700 --> 01:17:48,180
overlaid.

879
01:17:48,340 --> 01:17:51,660
Do you see, I mean, obviously, we have not.

880
01:17:52,060 --> 01:17:53,400
And we have not really discussed that.

881
01:17:53,500 --> 01:17:54,920
And that's something I would like for us to discuss

882
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:57,820
in the future and totally irrelevant

883
01:17:57,820 --> 01:17:59,440
to what you're asking for tonight.

884
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,100
Do you see us at a disadvantage if we

885
01:18:02,100 --> 01:18:06,680
approve something that it just requires a 20-foot

886
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:08,540
undisturbed buffer along the highway

887
01:18:08,540 --> 01:18:14,280
as opposed to the 50-foot buffer that would be mandated by the highway overlay.

888
01:18:14,660 --> 01:18:22,620
I think in this instance, Councilman Peterson, Planner Maddox and staff have worked with

889
01:18:22,620 --> 01:18:27,820
the applicants and what we're really talking about is recognizing what is already in existence

890
01:18:27,820 --> 01:18:28,240
there.

891
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:34,820
I think it was referenced earlier that if this were permanent parking, this would be a very

892
01:18:34,820 --> 01:18:35,640
different conversation.

893
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:54,140
I don't think planning staff would have it in front of you where they recommendation to simply have that 20 foot buffer in that area if in fact the applicant we're looking to put a permanent parking lot there because it's simply parking during a very limited number of events throughout the year I don't think you are

894
01:18:55,160 --> 01:19:05,560
per se giving up anything relative to if your ultimate desire is to ask the county to maintain these buffers along the highway corridor because again they're not talking about

895
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:11,300
putting permanent parking within that, I'll call it 30 feet in question, it's simply that it would

896
01:19:11,300 --> 01:19:17,860
be utilized during 20 periods, a maximum of 20 periods throughout the year. So I don't I don't

897
01:19:17,860 --> 01:19:23,120
think you're giving anything up there because it's currently already cleared. It's there's nothing

898
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:28,640
there to disturb at this point in time. It's my understanding that the highway quarter overlay also

899
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:34,880
you can put parking. And you can do a number of things within, yes. Yeah, this is really discussion

900
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:41,220
of an undisturbed buffer which again just in general is recognizing what is already there,

901
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:46,240
what is already planted. And as they said, they've been out with the tape measures on site.

902
01:19:46,440 --> 01:19:53,460
So I don't think this application really impacts that too much. And I think you bring up a very

903
01:19:54,080 --> 01:20:00,780
interesting point in that there's been some discussion at various meetings about those

904
01:20:00,780 --> 01:20:06,460
resolutions that may have come out of other jurisdictions and one of the real keys and

905
01:20:06,460 --> 01:20:13,600
there's been varying opinions on whether people should be asking the county to do certain

906
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:18,520
things when we don't like them to come in and tell us how to run our planning jurisdictions.

907
01:20:18,860 --> 01:20:25,320
But this is one of those areas where, as you are aware, having been on council, ETJs are

908
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:29,080
are constantly under attack or under question out of Raleigh.

909
01:20:29,220 --> 01:20:36,460
So this is an area that should the county forego, forego highway corridor standards,

910
01:20:36,460 --> 01:20:44,120
and suddenly we were to lose ETJ jurisdiction, a piece of property like this would come into

911
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:48,280
play at that point, because it would defer to the county at that point, and the county

912
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:50,120
wouldn't have a highway corridor in place.

913
01:20:50,120 --> 01:21:11,660
So I think it's a very valid question, and this is a perfect example of a property that we would have an interest in in the event we were to lose extra territorial jurisdictional authority, but this particular application, and I would offer that the planning staff's approach to it in working with the applicant.

914
01:21:11,660 --> 01:21:16,480
I don't think you're giving anything up here or should feel like you've somehow

915
01:21:17,740 --> 01:21:18,300
slated

916
01:21:19,620 --> 01:21:20,960
the highway corridor

917
01:21:21,780 --> 01:21:23,280
Concept because again

918
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:38,140
So it's essentially

919
01:21:38,740 --> 01:21:42,340
Although it doesn't have it quite a time here, but it's using the Campbell House

920
01:21:42,340 --> 01:21:44,840
Long to park cars for the children

921
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:46,400
Rather than right

922
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:47,060
Right

923
01:21:48,900 --> 01:21:53,800
And I think everybody's on the same page as far as trying to protect that 20 foot

924
01:21:53,800 --> 01:22:04,480
Mr. Buffer, so this is the best safeguard we can do long-term, if the E.T.J. jurisdiction

925
01:22:04,480 --> 01:22:08,780
were to become under the thumb of the county.

926
01:22:10,860 --> 01:22:11,660
Makes sense.

927
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:16,800
Whatever the county chooses ultimately to do with highway corridors would play a role here.

928
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:17,520
Okay.

929
01:22:18,060 --> 01:22:18,240
Okay.

930
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:23,400
I appreciate when I appreciate that you're trying to maintain the historic preservation.

931
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:30,460
I also try to think 50 years ahead and make sure that we're all on the same page.

932
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:39,880
I know that you're really making every effort to maintain what you have there and I also

933
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:41,820
appreciate you're not paving over a parking lot.

934
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:43,560
We definitely wanted to avoid that.

935
01:22:44,180 --> 01:22:45,280
Our judgment is not on you at all.

936
01:22:45,660 --> 01:22:46,960
It's you all are doing a great job.

937
01:22:47,180 --> 01:22:47,880
It's on the ordinance.

938
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:50,500
Yeah, the zoning outlives all of us.

939
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:51,260
I make perfect sense.

940
01:22:51,540 --> 01:22:52,820
Can I just ask two quick questions?

941
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,260
And I think one's a meatball for the boss, man.

942
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:59,540
Is there anything in our UDO's, regulations,

943
01:22:59,980 --> 01:23:03,880
or ordinances that allow us to safeguard historic sites like this,

944
01:23:03,980 --> 01:23:05,540
even though we don't market as a historic site?

945
01:23:05,620 --> 01:23:08,020
I mean, this is a building and a piece of private

946
01:23:08,020 --> 01:23:09,180
is over 100 years old.

947
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:14,520
And it's not like they're trying to change the scope of the landscape.

948
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:16,580
They're trying to maintain the exact landscape.

949
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:19,980
That's my first question, and it leads to this, which is more important.

950
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:22,860
And I'm by no means advocating for this.

951
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:26,700
But if we just said no, stick to the buffer zone, stick to the ordinances, and we're not

952
01:23:26,700 --> 01:23:27,380
giving you an exception.

953
01:23:28,180 --> 01:23:28,820
What is the time?

954
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:33,000
What would be the reasonable timeline to go back to the citizens of our county and go, hey,

955
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:39,000
ma'am, sir, we need you to plant, you know, 750 trees to fill out this buffer.

956
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:53,920
And so, just in the, my conscience tells me, what is the smart decision is, how do we safeguard the property, how do we safeguard the town, and how do we keep those that want to get into our business out of it? Does that make sense?

957
01:23:55,660 --> 01:24:07,120
I think so along the lines of your first question, I don't know that there's anything per say to safeguard depending on what it is you are trying to guard against.

958
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:15,660
I mean the application is in front of you because you have applicants looking to do something I'll call it different with the property.

959
01:24:15,660 --> 01:24:21,180
In this case, interestingly enough, that different thing is actually a return to its original

960
01:24:21,180 --> 01:24:21,540
use.

961
01:24:22,300 --> 01:24:26,540
But, I mean, if not for that, if they were simply going to live in it as a single

962
01:24:26,540 --> 01:24:31,500
family home and continue to run horses on the back acreage and all the things that are

963
01:24:31,500 --> 01:24:37,020
currently occurring there, there's no reason this would be in front of you, which is to

964
01:24:37,020 --> 01:24:43,020
say it's safeguarded from current zoning because they would be allowed to continue to utilize

965
01:24:43,020 --> 01:24:48,660
the property as they purchased it eight years ago and as they you know operate it today.

966
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:57,380
At the same time, if by safeguard you mean, is there anything in the code that says they couldn't

967
01:24:57,380 --> 01:25:03,560
go out and get forbid pulled bulldoze the home or something along those lines? No, there's nothing

968
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:08,620
in the code about that. So it depends on how I interpret your question as to whether a safeguard

969
01:25:09,180 --> 01:25:14,440
or not, but it is safeguarded from the standpoint of they can continue to utilize it as they

970
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:19,900
purchased it and as they have up to this point because they're wanting to do something different

971
01:25:19,900 --> 01:25:24,580
as why they are in front of you and why are we why we are talking about the history and

972
01:25:24,580 --> 01:25:25,600
looking at these conditions.

973
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:38,600
I have a question about, and I'm not sure if this is going to be a good idea, but I

974
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:44,180
for the applicant or for staff if they build something else on this property are they're set back

975
01:25:44,180 --> 01:25:49,260
requirements because I think I would care more about how close it is to the neighbors than I

976
01:25:49,260 --> 01:25:56,640
would the height or even even the buffer per say because if it's right up against the the property

977
01:25:56,640 --> 01:26:05,240
line for new building it's going to be more I don't know overbearing on neighbors. Yes there are and

978
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:09,540
applicants are proposing keeping them exactly as the default would be within highway corridor,

979
01:26:09,540 --> 01:26:16,200
which depends on the side. But I believe it's 75 feet from US one and a great distance on the

980
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:21,000
other sides. I might have to have the check for me. Pretty much keeping new development in the middle

981
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:27,900
of the property. Okay. And so for the applicants there are the map that's up right now.

982
01:26:29,180 --> 01:26:32,700
You've got your little hash outlines about where things are going to go. And then there's

983
01:26:33,260 --> 01:26:35,020
one piece of land on the top left corner,

984
01:26:35,260 --> 01:26:37,720
it's completely empty and then a line

985
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:39,140
through the middle that's empty as well.

986
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:43,840
Are there, do you all have proposals

987
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:46,060
for what's going to be, what that land will be used for

988
01:26:46,060 --> 01:26:50,620
or is that a side for potential future build?

989
01:26:50,940 --> 01:26:52,740
Another currently being used to house horses.

990
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:54,960
Well, I think she's talking about like in between.

991
01:26:55,440 --> 01:26:57,080
Well, the stuff that is not good.

992
01:26:57,500 --> 01:26:59,100
Our vision is that those are essentially unused.

993
01:26:59,580 --> 01:27:01,560
So that gives a little bit of extra space

994
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:05,900
from, you know, the neighborhood to where people are having their events. And then that other space,

995
01:27:05,900 --> 01:27:11,900
the one that's sort of like in between the yellow red and orange, that is right next to the

996
01:27:11,900 --> 01:27:16,280
horse pastures. And for people that are on the property for lodging or special home events, we do

997
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:20,820
not want them going near really the horse pastures, you know, for like risk purposes. And so no one gets

998
01:27:20,820 --> 01:27:26,280
hurt. So that's just, that's sort of like our own internally decided little buffer between those

999
01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:33,920
areas. Okay. Pretty just said, later on, after these folks have finished, and we're like 50 years

1000
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:39,800
away, somebody acquires it, only wants the special use. It's not doing anything with courses. They

1001
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:46,240
would be held to some default standards as to any new builds with those default buffers as you

1002
01:27:46,240 --> 01:27:54,300
mentioned. Correct. Okay. Tell me about who owns this property that's on the left side. That is

1003
01:27:54,300 --> 01:27:59,760
also owned by Nick it's what it's oh okay so you all are not bothered by

1004
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:04,880
yourselves as neighbors so it was sold to him as one transaction both of the

1005
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:13,110
two properties okay back in 2016 so okay so I would love to hear from the

1006
01:28:13,110 --> 01:28:16,950
long streets number one and number two I would be interested in maintaining the

1007
01:28:16,950 --> 01:28:23,010
35-foot height and other than that kudos great yeah I think

1008
01:28:23,010 --> 01:28:23,310
We'll do that.

1009
01:28:23,310 --> 01:28:23,850
I'll do that.

1010
01:28:24,130 --> 01:28:24,690
We'll do that.

1011
01:28:25,230 --> 01:28:25,870
Sounds great.

1012
01:28:26,470 --> 01:28:26,590
All right.

1013
01:28:27,210 --> 01:28:31,170
Do you have a number on setback from the interior line?

1014
01:28:33,470 --> 01:28:34,230
Yeah, in the highway yard.

1015
01:28:34,330 --> 01:28:36,550
It's going to be 75 foot from the highway.

1016
01:28:36,950 --> 01:28:38,530
And then from the general business zone.

1017
01:28:38,550 --> 01:28:41,550
It's 50 feet on the side, 25 in residential properties.

1018
01:28:42,190 --> 01:28:43,490
25 in residential properties?

1019
01:28:43,690 --> 01:28:44,670
Yes, ma'am.

1020
01:28:47,590 --> 01:28:48,150
I also put

1021
01:28:50,460 --> 01:28:51,380
right here.

1022
01:28:55,930 --> 01:29:00,490
I was hoping before staff has done to add two small points

1023
01:29:00,490 --> 01:29:01,270
that I was thinking of.

1024
01:29:01,270 --> 01:29:06,450
But there was a conversation earlier about if new structures come on or anything like that,

1025
01:29:06,850 --> 01:29:11,690
those structures will still have to fall under only one of the three uses it's allowed

1026
01:29:11,690 --> 01:29:12,810
in under this conditional zoning.

1027
01:29:12,970 --> 01:29:15,830
So that structure would have to be part of the bed and breakfast in, part of the horse farm

1028
01:29:15,830 --> 01:29:19,430
or part of the special home events, just to not lose sight of that.

1029
01:29:20,090 --> 01:29:24,270
And then that made me think we actually have an example of how we've administered something

1030
01:29:24,270 --> 01:29:26,830
very similar to this over time, which has done Craig Manor.

1031
01:29:26,830 --> 01:29:30,550
When Duncreg Manor came in, it was the original developer, the Nacemus.

1032
01:29:31,030 --> 01:29:39,890
They came in and at that time it was a special use permit that they got approved and they had a number of things very specifically listed for a site plan, very specifically listed for a use.

1033
01:29:40,450 --> 01:29:47,570
Even so much similar that the Duncreg Manor main home cannot be used as a gathering place during special home events.

1034
01:29:47,570 --> 01:29:50,830
They have to do it outside under tents and that has come up over time.

1035
01:29:51,630 --> 01:29:53,830
And then Duncreg Manor was sold to some new owners.

1036
01:29:53,830 --> 01:29:58,670
And we've had a number of interactions with them about changes they want to make and whether it's allowed into the special use permit

1037
01:29:58,670 --> 01:29:59,450
So for example

1038
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,880
In February of last year, they inquired about building a pavilion. And ultimately, it was determined

1039
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:09,400
that a small pavilion outdoors in a certain location was consistent with the authorized use,

1040
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:13,660
so they were allowed to do that. They called and asked about ticketing of events, and

1041
01:30:13,660 --> 01:30:18,540
we didn't find anything in the UDO that forbid them, as long as the number of attendees did

1042
01:30:18,540 --> 01:30:24,480
not exceed 80. So we allowed that. But then they also came in and asked about some very aggressive

1043
01:30:24,480 --> 01:30:29,460
of fencing, and that was not allowed because the UDO has fencing requirements, there wasn't

1044
01:30:29,460 --> 01:30:32,180
anything special in the special use permit, so they had to meet that.

1045
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:36,620
So that's how these kind of play out over time with new owners might call and ask questions

1046
01:30:36,620 --> 01:30:40,220
because they're aware the only reason that's entitled is from that process, the only reason

1047
01:30:40,220 --> 01:30:40,700
they can do it.

1048
01:30:46,750 --> 01:30:51,570
The only other thing I wanted to say is thank you for working so closely with the planning

1049
01:30:51,570 --> 01:30:56,030
department, and as Mason said, doing the homework fully appreciate it.

1050
01:30:56,330 --> 01:30:57,570
It's been very mutual as well.

1051
01:30:57,730 --> 01:30:58,690
We're very grateful for Mason.

1052
01:30:58,690 --> 01:31:03,090
It's been a great point in the department and obviously you've been great to work with.

1053
01:31:03,290 --> 01:31:03,770
So thank you.

1054
01:31:04,290 --> 01:31:05,250
Thank you.

1055
01:31:05,770 --> 01:31:05,910
All right.

1056
01:31:06,630 --> 01:31:06,870
Thank you.

1057
01:31:07,030 --> 01:31:07,330
Thank you.

1058
01:31:16,390 --> 01:31:20,650
Council, if you allow me to add one last little thing just for your awareness.

1059
01:31:22,550 --> 01:31:28,170
New construction in particular has to abide by our welfare standards and staff does not compromise

1060
01:31:28,170 --> 01:31:30,270
those under any circumstance.

1061
01:31:30,670 --> 01:31:34,630
I mean, we don't get to be tree city while those are getting adjusted, but I believe manager

1062
01:31:34,630 --> 01:31:39,990
person summarized everything that I have portrayed to you perfectly as far as utilizing something

1063
01:31:39,990 --> 01:31:45,830
existing goes. So just the one off for something that's there is a lot harder to navigate than

1064
01:31:45,830 --> 01:31:50,370
something that's being built and anything being built 50 feet above room or I'm going home.

1065
01:31:51,390 --> 01:31:54,410
So it's 50 feet above room on the residential side.

1066
01:31:55,170 --> 01:31:56,170
From US one.

1067
01:31:56,710 --> 01:31:57,130
From US one.

1068
01:31:57,530 --> 01:31:59,870
It's only 25 from residential side.

1069
01:31:59,870 --> 01:32:04,010
I think I explained that very poorly in my reading of this chart, so I need to apologize.

1070
01:32:04,330 --> 01:32:09,410
No, it's from a residential zone, it's 50 feet from the GBCD is 25.

1071
01:32:10,050 --> 01:32:13,630
So less of a buffer is required from the general business zone right there, and

1072
01:32:13,630 --> 01:32:16,170
then more buffer from the residential properties.

1073
01:32:16,550 --> 01:32:20,170
Okay, so it's the larger, the 50 foot from the residential properties.

1074
01:32:20,210 --> 01:32:20,390
Yes.

1075
01:32:20,690 --> 01:32:21,250
Okay, thank you.

1076
01:32:21,350 --> 01:32:22,030
I feel better about that.

1077
01:32:22,870 --> 01:32:23,310
Okay.

1078
01:32:24,730 --> 01:32:26,490
And I think Mr. Longstreet is here.

1079
01:32:26,490 --> 01:32:29,390
We were able to hear from him.

1080
01:32:29,650 --> 01:32:30,310
I'd appreciate that.

1081
01:32:30,870 --> 01:32:31,630
Hello at all.

1082
01:32:33,250 --> 01:32:36,130
As I said at the planning board, my wife and I are fully

1083
01:32:36,130 --> 01:32:37,470
behind their plans.

1084
01:32:37,470 --> 01:32:41,630
We think it's a great thing to take the historical building

1085
01:32:41,630 --> 01:32:44,030
and reestablish it after all these years.

1086
01:32:45,290 --> 01:32:47,970
One thing I will say is where they have the horse training

1087
01:32:47,970 --> 01:32:50,190
and where the lift parking would be.

1088
01:32:51,550 --> 01:32:54,050
That is actually right now zoned RS3.

1089
01:32:54,050 --> 01:32:58,110
We were, God forbid, they put those shoebox houses along in there.

1090
01:32:58,250 --> 01:33:00,010
I would be, I'd be just paul'd at that.

1091
01:33:00,290 --> 01:33:03,010
I mean, I couldn't, wouldn't be able to live with that.

1092
01:33:04,250 --> 01:33:07,030
So I'm perfectly happy with that five foot buffer.

1093
01:33:08,310 --> 01:33:10,390
It'll look exactly like it does right now.

1094
01:33:10,970 --> 01:33:14,290
Their driveway goes out through there and their training horses and stuff.

1095
01:33:14,450 --> 01:33:16,030
So we have no issues with it at all.

1096
01:33:17,050 --> 01:33:22,030
As a general contractor, I have to look at, it's a wonderful use where they're not creating

1097
01:33:22,030 --> 01:33:28,190
a lot of impervious places and going to cause a lot of runoff and those problems it's a great

1098
01:33:28,190 --> 01:33:34,630
reuse of what's already there and then like we own Windritch Gardens next door and we own the

1099
01:33:34,630 --> 01:33:40,600
property we live on that buts it as well and thank you just a wonderful idea.

1100
01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:48,680
I have one quick question since you're up there. The amount on the issue was yeah potential

1101
01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:54,620
neighbor complaints they've noticed that planning board happened this has happened and the fact

1102
01:33:54,620 --> 01:33:58,420
that you know you're the only neighbors that have come and spoken and you're in favor of it

1103
01:33:58,420 --> 01:34:03,260
to your knowledge no other neighbors have grumbled or said anything adverse to this plan.

1104
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:08,580
Now with the planning board there was the one neighbor who was just concerned about the traffic

1105
01:34:08,580 --> 01:34:15,720
and noise and that was taking care of and after we walked out with him and he was happy with it and

1106
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:22,260
all excited about it. And my wife's son lives in the neighborhood. They're happy about it,

1107
01:34:22,460 --> 01:34:29,820
so they live right on the corner of Tannen and Skyline Manor. And there's been no

1108
01:34:29,820 --> 01:34:32,660
scuttle but in the neighborhood. Thank you for confirming that. I appreciate it.

1109
01:34:38,100 --> 01:34:45,920
I think this is just for planning, maybe. I was thinking about that five foot buffer too.

1110
01:34:47,320 --> 01:34:55,820
If someone came along and they didn't own horses, what will we do in terms of that buffer?

1111
01:34:56,040 --> 01:35:02,800
If we wanted to have, would we be able to say let's increase it from the five foot underserved?

1112
01:35:03,360 --> 01:35:04,440
You know what Saddle talked about?

1113
01:35:06,500 --> 01:35:10,480
Was I clear? I don't know. I'm a little congested all of a sudden, but yeah.

1114
01:35:17,550 --> 01:35:24,430
Yeah, exactly because I guess five foot right now works because the force jumping is it? Yeah, that's what I heard so

1115
01:35:25,730 --> 01:35:26,250
It's

1116
01:35:38,960 --> 01:35:43,260
a new owner couldn't pave it or build on it or

1117
01:35:44,200 --> 01:35:46,180
Do something right up again to the five foot buffer

1118
01:36:02,190 --> 01:36:03,230
Thank you

1119
01:36:03,230 --> 01:36:05,430
Council do you have other questions for the applicant or staff?

1120
01:36:05,790 --> 01:36:06,030
All

1121
01:36:08,210 --> 01:36:09,250
right, is there a motion?

1122
01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:12,720
We'll close the hearing.

1123
01:36:12,900 --> 01:36:13,420
Oh, yes.

1124
01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:16,820
Is a public hearing.

1125
01:36:17,460 --> 01:36:19,440
So I'll open the floor for public comments.

1126
01:36:19,540 --> 01:36:21,460
Anyone who would like to participate in the public hearing?

1127
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:27,240
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing.

1128
01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:28,660
Now is there a motion?

1129
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:29,760
Yes.

1130
01:36:31,260 --> 01:36:34,860
I'll make a motion that after reviewing the proposed conditional zoning district

1131
01:36:36,100 --> 01:36:39,720
after considering the criteria for approval of zoning map amendments found in

1132
01:36:40,340 --> 01:36:45,740
Section 2.17.9, that the proposed amendment to the town of Southern pound zoning map is reasonable

1133
01:36:45,740 --> 01:36:49,520
in the public interest and consistent with criteria set forth in the town of Southern

1134
01:36:49,520 --> 01:36:52,280
pound's UDO, Section 2.17.9.

1135
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:53,780
Is there a second?

1136
01:36:54,100 --> 01:37:01,900
I was interested in the condition of 35 feet instead of 40 and where the council stood on

1137
01:37:01,900 --> 01:37:02,060
that.

1138
01:37:03,080 --> 01:37:06,120
I'm okay with the flexibility of 40 as long as it's not right against the property.

1139
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:07,220
Okay.

1140
01:37:07,220 --> 01:37:08,860
Well, where's everybody else?

1141
01:37:09,620 --> 01:37:12,120
Yeah, when I, uh, when, uh,

1142
01:37:13,060 --> 01:37:16,760
Claire and Maddox first mentioned that he said he wasn't sure if it was 35.

1143
01:37:17,100 --> 01:37:21,200
If the height was 35 or if it was somewhere between 35 and 40.

1144
01:37:21,440 --> 01:37:23,100
So yeah, I'm all right with.

1145
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:26,880
Well, I mean, that would be the exception of the manner.

1146
01:37:27,320 --> 01:37:31,020
But otherwise new buildings on the property will have new buildings.

1147
01:37:31,140 --> 01:37:34,620
So I'm talking about if a new building is there that we restrict that to 35,

1148
01:37:34,620 --> 01:37:37,560
which is, otherwise I think we said a dangerous precedent.

1149
01:37:37,860 --> 01:37:40,140
I think, yeah, I think that's already established.

1150
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:40,700
Am I right?

1151
01:37:41,320 --> 01:37:44,480
I can also discuss it that we don't set precedence

1152
01:37:44,480 --> 01:37:48,180
with the conditional zoning, but I'm open

1153
01:37:48,180 --> 01:37:48,920
to hearing everyone's thoughts.

1154
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:53,480
What is the default for the neighbors, for that land?

1155
01:37:53,820 --> 01:37:54,340
What would it be?

1156
01:37:55,140 --> 01:37:55,280
Thirty five.

1157
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:57,940
With exceptions, generally, 35 feet.

1158
01:38:02,770 --> 01:38:05,230
And I think consistency with the neighbors is important.

1159
01:38:06,710 --> 01:38:12,830
So that would be the only condition that I would like to alter and they've indicated they're

1160
01:38:12,830 --> 01:38:14,290
okay with altering that condition.

1161
01:38:15,050 --> 01:38:17,910
Obviously, the manor house, I don't want to, like I said, I don't want to shave the top

1162
01:38:17,910 --> 01:38:24,350
off the manor house if it ends up to this 40 feet, but for new buildings, I would like for

1163
01:38:24,350 --> 01:38:26,610
that to be restricted to 35 feet rather than 40.

1164
01:38:27,550 --> 01:38:32,610
But if the manor is 40 feet, then consistency would be 40 feet, right?

1165
01:38:33,450 --> 01:38:46,090
Now if the manor is 40 feet, the manor is 40 feet, there's, again, I don't want to knock down 5 feet of the manor, but for new builds, I would like for the building height to be restricted to 35 feet.

1166
01:38:48,480 --> 01:38:56,540
Councillor, where does every else fall on this on the height? Do you feel like it needs to come down to the 35, or are you okay with the condition set at 40?

1167
01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:06,780
You mentioned a keyboard when you said consistency, if the man is 40 feet that's going to make

1168
01:39:06,780 --> 01:39:14,980
it stand out amongst any other new development on the property and I don't know if I

1169
01:39:14,980 --> 01:39:23,660
want to restrict the owners to that kind of book so I'm willing to go 40 if the man

1170
01:39:23,660 --> 01:39:29,160
40 feet that are willing to say any other development on that property should

1171
01:39:29,160 --> 01:39:33,000
can go up as high as 40 feet. Not above it, but of course. And if your

1172
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:36,460
concern is consistency in the rest of the neighbors are held to 35, you have no

1173
01:39:36,460 --> 01:39:40,500
problem with that. That's also what our staff has gone through this and made the

1174
01:39:40,500 --> 01:39:47,420
recommendation of 40. So I think part of it's also supporting the work that they've

1175
01:39:47,420 --> 01:39:53,420
put into it. I was member Curtin, do you have thoughts? Yeah, I mean I'm definitely

1176
01:39:53,420 --> 01:40:01,740
because I feel that if we were to treat this as a standalone campus, I think for aesthetics

1177
01:40:05,120 --> 01:40:09,320
and what a community would be looking for, I could definitely get behind the 40.

1178
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:16,640
I understand what mis-counselman Peterson's top concerns are set in the slippery, slow

1179
01:40:16,640 --> 01:40:17,120
press since.

1180
01:40:17,180 --> 01:40:22,940
But I think in this situation, I think 40 for me would be okay, just so that it would

1181
01:40:22,940 --> 01:40:30,320
look consistent with the rest of the property and I think that level of aesthetics and consistency

1182
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:36,620
would really bring more people to their establishment and that really brings a little bit a lot more

1183
01:40:36,620 --> 01:40:41,680
people to the community. So I'm kind of good with it in this situation, man, with the 48. I know it's

1184
01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:50,780
kind of what I normally say, but I think it's good. It's funny. It's only five feet, so it feels like we're

1185
01:40:50,780 --> 01:40:58,900
We're just, you know, cutting hairs here, but it's also, I feel like when you're building something,

1186
01:41:00,240 --> 01:41:08,000
having ability to go a couple of feet higher versus restricting high, I mean, especially on an

1187
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:14,880
event space, I would not want, I'm not a big fan of ceiling height being lower than necessary, but

1188
01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:19,200
But I think the big thing, man, though, it's not a new bill.

1189
01:41:19,400 --> 01:41:23,060
It's not like we're starting from Jump Street, and we can say, hey, the entire campus

1190
01:41:23,060 --> 01:41:25,440
needs to be at 35 or 38 or 40.

1191
01:41:26,160 --> 01:41:32,620
We're looking at an established infrastructure, and that's why I feel comfortable making the

1192
01:41:32,620 --> 01:41:37,040
decision tonight that I'm making as opposed to, if you were asking me as a new bill, I would

1193
01:41:37,040 --> 01:41:40,860
say, I'd like to stand firm at 35, but in this case, I think it's a little different

1194
01:41:40,860 --> 01:41:41,220
from me.

1195
01:41:42,340 --> 01:41:42,820
Thank you.

1196
01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:51,520
Okay, either way. I'll see both sides, but in this situation every season is unique as

1197
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:56,920
somebody said, so we're not setting any standards to be duplicated anywhere else, but for this,

1198
01:41:57,560 --> 01:42:04,200
I'm okay with the 40. Okay, so a motion stands, the original motion that's in our

1199
01:42:04,200 --> 01:42:10,140
in our packets, is there a second to that motion? All those in favor vote by saying aye.

1200
01:42:10,140 --> 01:42:18,120
I. I. Any opposed motion carries and then a second part of that to look that one therefore I will make a motion to approve

1201
01:42:18,120 --> 01:42:27,960
Z-04-26 with the conditions as we read you tonight at the September 8th Council meeting for the rule residential is a conditional zoning district

1202
01:42:28,860 --> 01:42:35,560
Zero seconds. I second all those in favor. All right any opposed motion carries

1203
01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:40,460
Thank you, guys, for all the work staff and the applicants for the work you put into

1204
01:42:40,460 --> 01:42:41,060
that application.

1205
01:42:41,380 --> 01:42:46,280
When you, from our perspective, when you see that many conditions come across before

1206
01:42:46,280 --> 01:42:50,740
it comes to us, you can tell there's a lot of work put into it, so we appreciate the effort

1207
01:42:50,740 --> 01:42:52,140
put in.

1208
01:42:53,040 --> 01:42:54,700
Could we please take a break?

1209
01:42:56,820 --> 01:43:02,360
Yep, it is 7.32, according to that clock, let's come back at 7.40.

1210
01:53:44,690 --> 01:54:14,610
Public hearing, the UDO text amendments, the first one, o, a, dash, o, three, dash, two, six. All right. Good evening, everyone. James Bragg with the Foreign Department. And yes, this is that UDO cleanup package text amendments we mentioned earlier. And we do these every so often. We'll propose amendments. We'll just give the UDO is up to date, accurate, legally defensible, and efficient as possible. Because an important part of our job is to really make sure that UDO states

1211
01:54:14,610 --> 01:54:18,570
Everyone says confident in it and that it is a document that we can all live by.

1212
01:54:19,350 --> 01:54:28,880
And tonight's amendments range through nine topics and those nine topics clarify three

1213
01:54:28,880 --> 01:54:33,620
administrative processes, correct three discrepancies with North Carolina General Statute

1214
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:37,580
and correct four older UDO vestiges and inaccuracies.

1215
01:54:38,580 --> 01:54:42,400
It's a lot of detail, so feel free to stop at my point in time if you have any questions.

1216
01:54:42,400 --> 01:54:48,340
And also, as I'm going through each one, I've got the slide up of the UDF section just

1217
01:54:48,340 --> 01:54:50,880
so the audience can follow along with where we are in your last packet.

1218
01:54:51,320 --> 01:54:53,280
I don't need to actually read it just more for their reference.

1219
01:54:53,740 --> 01:54:54,240
Thank you.

1220
01:54:54,680 --> 01:55:00,900
So the first one is about the site plan and engineering plan review process with the technical

1221
01:55:00,900 --> 01:55:06,440
review committee, and more specifically when an applicant proposes changes after a plan

1222
01:55:06,440 --> 01:55:07,760
has already been submitted.

1223
01:55:08,560 --> 01:55:17,440
Right now that language says that anything no matter how minor, if there's a change following the approved plan set, it has to go back through the entire process.

1224
01:55:18,060 --> 01:55:22,240
That might be something as small as the sewer line needs to be five feet this way.

1225
01:55:23,000 --> 01:55:26,700
Hey, the landscaping contractor can't get the species of tree.

1226
01:55:26,920 --> 01:55:34,820
Can we do this species of tree or fire truck turn radius is going to change just a little bit because we're moving the driveway a little bit down the street.

1227
01:55:34,820 --> 01:55:38,880
Anything like that has to go through the entire TRC review process.

1228
01:55:39,860 --> 01:55:44,300
We find that is a bit cumbersome on staff time as well as the applicants.

1229
01:55:44,720 --> 01:55:49,520
And there are many instances where it makes a lot of sense to grab what the change is

1230
01:55:49,520 --> 01:55:54,920
and provide it to the department, the individual from that department, to review and then add

1231
01:55:54,920 --> 01:55:56,880
the adjusted shoot from there.

1232
01:55:58,020 --> 01:55:59,420
So that's what these changes do.

1233
01:55:59,420 --> 01:56:05,860
It says that if the TRC determines that a change can fall in the review scope of a member

1234
01:56:05,860 --> 01:56:11,240
or subset of the TRC, then the committee can delegate that authority to that person

1235
01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:12,060
or group individuals.

1236
01:56:13,340 --> 01:56:17,020
I'll also point out we have two sections of the video that cover this.

1237
01:56:17,320 --> 01:56:22,440
One is with the Residential Subdivision Review, and the one is mainly your commercial site

1238
01:56:22,440 --> 01:56:22,800
plans.

1239
01:56:23,640 --> 01:56:27,820
They're the same thing, and that we've made it to the language exactly the same in both,

1240
01:56:28,280 --> 01:56:31,620
and that eliminates a little bit more of that discrepancy with that as well.

1241
01:56:32,700 --> 01:56:38,100
So really it just makes it so small changes can be done with a smaller group that it makes sense for.

1242
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:42,640
We don't need more process or more cumbersome term, but it's not necessary.

1243
01:56:43,300 --> 01:56:44,700
And not change would enable that.

1244
01:56:47,480 --> 01:56:48,480
So other questions off to you?

1245
01:56:48,680 --> 01:56:49,120
Yeah.

1246
01:56:49,260 --> 01:56:54,240
What determines the scope of the change?

1247
01:56:54,240 --> 01:57:00,980
like I mean you're talking obviously minor adjustments which makes absolute sense to me like

1248
01:57:01,620 --> 01:57:06,800
have the resident expert there take care of it knock it out of the park but at what point does

1249
01:57:06,800 --> 01:57:12,340
it get to a point where you in the planning department and staff go this really changes the scope

1250
01:57:12,340 --> 01:57:17,340
of the project and we need to revisit it through the entire process. Is there a safeguard in there

1251
01:57:17,340 --> 01:57:22,120
for that and I think that safeguard you as well as us as in council.

1252
01:57:22,120 --> 01:57:28,700
And typically it'll come mid construction that kind of you know what a actually this sewer line is gets got to go here because of

1253
01:57:28,700 --> 01:57:35,420
X reason and they'll bring that to our attention usually it's one staff member they were they were talking with and at that point that

1254
01:57:35,420 --> 01:57:43,160
staff member then brings it to the TRC and the TRC as a group at our weekly meeting will say yep you know David you've got this one go

1255
01:57:45,440 --> 01:57:57,460
I guess my point is, sir, is whatever change is being affected mid-stream, so let's just say we want to move the applicant comes back.

1256
01:57:57,620 --> 01:58:02,240
It says I want to move the building and I want to shave off the buffer.

1257
01:58:03,640 --> 01:58:06,660
Does that go back to the TRC and get approved at your level?

1258
01:58:07,360 --> 01:58:09,840
Or now we've significantly changed the plan.

1259
01:58:10,240 --> 01:58:11,200
That's where I'm getting that.

1260
01:58:11,200 --> 01:58:17,780
You know, yeah, if it's something that falls in the administrative approval purview, but still significant

1261
01:58:17,780 --> 01:58:23,260
We're going to hit multiple departments then yeah go back for another plan with the old TRC now

1262
01:58:23,260 --> 01:58:27,140
It's something that's not administratively approval then it would probably come back to you all okay

1263
01:58:27,140 --> 01:58:33,080
We're changing something that was approved in a PDP or a major subdivision plan and it doesn't fall within what we can approve

1264
01:58:33,080 --> 01:58:37,980
Administratively, then we have to send it back to the plan board and town council. Okay. Thank you

1265
01:58:37,980 --> 01:58:40,420
All right.

1266
01:58:40,860 --> 01:58:42,360
Is there any more I'll keep going?

1267
01:58:42,520 --> 01:58:42,860
Go ahead.

1268
01:58:43,100 --> 01:58:43,980
Thank you.

1269
01:58:44,020 --> 01:58:44,840
Oh, yes.

1270
01:58:44,940 --> 01:58:50,380
And one more with this one right there, that Table 2-1, where you see that highlighted Board

1271
01:58:50,380 --> 01:58:50,940
of Adjustment.

1272
01:58:51,100 --> 01:58:51,960
That was blank.

1273
01:58:52,500 --> 01:58:53,720
It should not be blank.

1274
01:58:54,160 --> 01:58:58,680
The appeal authority for any administrative decisions is the Board of Adjustment.

1275
01:58:59,180 --> 01:59:00,320
Why that was blank?

1276
01:59:00,500 --> 01:59:01,200
We are not sure.

1277
01:59:01,540 --> 01:59:02,440
But we're going to fix it out.

1278
01:59:03,480 --> 01:59:03,680
Okay.

1279
01:59:06,950 --> 01:59:10,210
Number two is certificate of appropriateness minor work.

1280
01:59:10,210 --> 01:59:20,050
And minor works, major works, those both deal with the Historic District Commission and the Historic District which is that main ten blocks of downtown that are governed.

1281
01:59:20,890 --> 01:59:25,990
Minor work is something that can be approved administratively, major work, the Historic District Commission approves.

1282
01:59:26,710 --> 01:59:37,770
That language as written has a problem with statute because it says that staff, they determine that something for a minor work does not meet the standards, then it can be denied by staff.

1283
01:59:37,770 --> 01:59:43,850
As a no-go with state statute staff can't do it on their own if it is determined not to meet a standard

1284
01:59:43,850 --> 01:59:51,430
Then it's forward to the HTC for their final off-call and issue and that verbiage change just makes that clear

1285
01:59:55,240 --> 01:59:58,900
Number three travel trailers so once upon a time

1286
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:23,080
Chapter three, travel trailers were no longer permitted as a permanent or temporary residence, and with that came what's called an amortization clause. In other words, everyone has, if you are using a travel trailer as a residence, one year to come into compliance. This one year is long since passed, so this change just strikes that one year amortization from the section.

1287
02:00:28,160 --> 02:00:33,500
And number four, industrial zoning minimum lot size. So this is a discrepancy

1288
02:00:33,500 --> 02:00:38,020
we found in the UDO. In one chart it says there is no minimum, which is consistent with

1289
02:00:38,020 --> 02:00:42,580
their commercial neighborhood business, zone district, and so forth. And then in the

1290
02:00:42,580 --> 02:00:47,260
other one it says it's 50,000 square feet. Anytime we come across an issue like this

1291
02:00:47,260 --> 02:00:52,900
where there's, it's unclear the UDO contradicts itself. Ty goes to the runner and the person

1292
02:00:52,900 --> 02:00:56,680
who owns the property. We would defer to that judgment call on, which we would in this

1293
02:00:56,680 --> 02:01:01,860
case anyway. But to eliminate this confusion and what was clearly intent was to have a

1294
02:01:01,860 --> 02:01:04,500
no minimum lot size for your industrial commercial type zone

1295
02:01:04,500 --> 02:01:08,100
districts. We're taking that out and showing it as no minimum as

1296
02:01:08,100 --> 02:01:08,300
well.

1297
02:01:14,350 --> 02:01:18,090
And number five extension of compliance dollar amount. So

1298
02:01:18,090 --> 02:01:21,750
two things with this one. First is that general statute says

1299
02:01:21,750 --> 02:01:25,410
what, excuse me, let me explain that it's first. So the extension

1300
02:01:25,410 --> 02:01:29,910
for compliance is something that pertains only to bonding for

1301
02:01:29,910 --> 02:01:32,910
landscaping. So in other words, I'm going to open my ice cream

1302
02:01:32,910 --> 02:01:40,390
shop and it's May 15th, but the UDO says I can't plant pine trees until December, so I want

1303
02:01:40,390 --> 02:01:44,550
to apply for an extension of compliance so that I can get my shift kit of occupancy now

1304
02:01:45,010 --> 02:01:50,570
and then plant when the time comes. Part of that dollar amount, whether it be for a line of

1305
02:01:50,570 --> 02:01:59,970
credit or a bond, coming from statute says it can exceed 125% of an estimated cost and the UDO right

1306
02:01:59,970 --> 02:02:03,830
else is 150% of a sense of no-go, so we're going to change that.

1307
02:02:04,530 --> 02:02:06,990
That's the first thing, encapsulated number five.

1308
02:02:07,910 --> 02:02:10,530
The other one is about planting season.

1309
02:02:11,470 --> 02:02:16,430
A different section of the UDO talks about how, for long-leaf pines, specifically, the planting

1310
02:02:16,430 --> 02:02:18,590
season is December to April.

1311
02:02:19,510 --> 02:02:23,810
But then in this section, extension of compliance can only go for 90 days.

1312
02:02:24,810 --> 02:02:26,850
So if I apply for it in May, then that's a problem.

1313
02:02:27,390 --> 02:02:31,970
So, the correction is that it's a full year, so it doesn't matter what point of the year

1314
02:02:31,970 --> 02:02:35,950
you apply for it, you're guaranteed to hit that full planting season that isn't part

1315
02:02:35,950 --> 02:02:36,150
of it.

1316
02:02:42,280 --> 02:02:47,400
This one's really straightforward, this is a sign code cross reference issue, there's

1317
02:02:47,400 --> 02:02:54,140
that one section is pointing to a different part of the sign code, talking about landmark

1318
02:02:54,140 --> 02:03:00,280
signs, whereas it should be pointing to temporary signs that are unauthorized uses, just a simple

1319
02:03:00,280 --> 02:03:05,080
point to the wrong section of the sign code on that particular page.

1320
02:03:09,640 --> 02:03:11,280
And number seven, open space standards.

1321
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:15,960
This is something we noticed that doesn't pertain to the open space standards adopted

1322
02:03:15,960 --> 02:03:17,120
a few months ago.

1323
02:03:17,980 --> 02:03:21,480
This comes a lot later in section 4.9.

1324
02:03:22,880 --> 02:03:27,980
Obviously, open space pertains to most types of development, all your residential subdivisions,

1325
02:03:28,260 --> 02:03:29,800
commercial, industrial, and so forth.

1326
02:03:29,800 --> 02:03:39,220
But this section specifically calls out residential development, which obviously that is not consistent with the rest of the section and its applicability.

1327
02:03:40,000 --> 02:03:45,000
So just to eliminate any confusion there, we're just striking the word residential to make it clear.

1328
02:03:50,440 --> 02:03:51,280
James, when you do that.

1329
02:03:52,160 --> 02:03:52,600
Oh, no, okay.

1330
02:03:52,840 --> 02:03:53,000
I see.

1331
02:03:53,880 --> 02:03:56,200
In development is capitalized for a reason.

1332
02:03:56,980 --> 02:03:58,040
I was thinking it was any sentence.

1333
02:03:58,580 --> 02:03:59,540
Okay, go ahead.

1334
02:04:03,130 --> 02:04:08,930
Next, almost there, is accessory dwelling units, and this is another state statute correction.

1335
02:04:09,950 --> 02:04:16,030
And state statute says that local government cannot regulate the architecture or entrance

1336
02:04:16,030 --> 02:04:20,750
locations on anything that is subject to the residential building code, and that includes

1337
02:04:20,750 --> 02:04:21,950
accessory dwelling units.

1338
02:04:22,670 --> 02:04:26,190
And those two sections, you see at the bottom right there, do exactly that.

1339
02:04:26,430 --> 02:04:31,330
It says architecture must match that of the principal structure and the entry has to be

1340
02:04:31,330 --> 02:04:36,590
the side or rear. And both of those are no goes with statute. So there we go.

1341
02:04:40,420 --> 02:04:41,180
And last one,

1342
02:04:41,260 --> 02:04:47,160
special home events, something you all just saw a moment ago. When this change was adopted back in

1343
02:04:47,160 --> 02:04:54,300
2015, ordinance 1716, it changed the approval process for a special home event from a special

1344
02:04:54,300 --> 02:05:00,840
use permit to conditional zoning like you all just did. And that change reflects in table 315,

1345
02:05:00,840 --> 02:05:06,720
where it should, but it did not change in the actual Section 519, as you should have.

1346
02:05:07,020 --> 02:05:08,480
So correcting that as well.

1347
02:05:12,920 --> 02:05:13,920
And that's our nine things.

1348
02:05:14,240 --> 02:05:20,340
Overall, that's three important review processes administratively that are clarified and improved.

1349
02:05:20,980 --> 02:05:28,620
Three discrepancies with state statute corrected, and then four just old vestiges and inaccuracies that we've found in the UNIO.

1350
02:05:29,300 --> 02:05:31,200
Now that we're waiting for all the changes.

1351
02:05:32,440 --> 02:05:33,040
Thank you.

1352
02:05:33,040 --> 02:05:39,020
So many questions. That is all I have on this presentation council. Do you have any questions? I had one sir

1353
02:05:39,020 --> 02:05:43,180
Can you go back to number seven and just kind of walk me through that

1354
02:05:45,320 --> 02:05:45,720
We

1355
02:05:46,920 --> 02:05:50,940
And clear up the difference between a single residential use and let's say we

1356
02:05:51,460 --> 02:05:56,080
We want to put we want to come in which is happening in the north of the county

1357
02:05:56,540 --> 02:05:58,480
So we want to put in multiple homes

1358
02:05:59,060 --> 02:06:05,580
3040 we want to overcrowd but we say that there's no requirement for open spaces in those areas like town

1359
02:06:05,580 --> 02:06:10,460
part not town but my community parks and things like that is that what we're saying we're not

1360
02:06:10,460 --> 02:06:19,020
dictating that was just for not exactly single use just clear that up for me please sir sure so

1361
02:06:19,020 --> 02:06:25,880
the very top of chapter 4.9 open space it talks about open space pertains to anything subject to

1362
02:06:25,880 --> 02:06:27,800
made your subdivision review, all of your commercial

1363
02:06:27,800 --> 02:06:29,260
developments, industrial developments,

1364
02:06:29,840 --> 02:06:31,720
and then get into what open space it is,

1365
02:06:31,860 --> 02:06:32,840
what it must comprise.

1366
02:06:33,320 --> 02:06:36,160
And then this section is later on in chapter 4.9,

1367
02:06:36,740 --> 02:06:38,280
and it has this word residential,

1368
02:06:38,720 --> 02:06:41,620
which it shouldn't, because it just says that

1369
02:06:41,620 --> 02:06:43,840
this particular section talks about flexibility,

1370
02:06:44,620 --> 02:06:48,060
is oftentimes, and then we just see the word

1371
02:06:48,060 --> 02:06:49,500
for residential developments,

1372
02:06:49,500 --> 02:06:54,140
which open space applies to a much wider type of development

1373
02:06:54,140 --> 02:06:54,800
and then just that.

1374
02:06:55,180 --> 02:06:56,680
So to eliminate ambiguity,

1375
02:06:56,680 --> 02:06:58,020
we're taking the word residential,

1376
02:06:58,340 --> 02:07:00,200
and so it's just developments.

1377
02:07:00,880 --> 02:07:05,680
Okay, so this amendment does not materially expand

1378
02:07:05,680 --> 02:07:07,940
and restrict the property owners' development

1379
02:07:07,940 --> 02:07:08,820
or anything of that nature.

1380
02:07:09,160 --> 02:07:09,540
It does that.

1381
02:07:09,780 --> 02:07:11,220
Okay, I appreciate that.

1382
02:07:11,360 --> 02:07:12,540
Thank you.

1383
02:07:13,580 --> 02:07:14,580
Other other questions?

1384
02:07:19,400 --> 02:07:20,720
I appreciate you guys doing this.

1385
02:07:20,800 --> 02:07:24,000
This is like the not fun nitty gritty stuff.

1386
02:07:24,000 --> 02:07:27,480
And so thanks for the intricate detail

1387
02:07:27,480 --> 02:07:33,860
that you give to do these updates. Thank you. And staff, I'm looking at you, but all of you.

1388
02:07:34,480 --> 02:07:39,320
And keeping up with state regulations as well, and this is one of those, we have little errors,

1389
02:07:39,520 --> 02:07:44,660
but also as things change at a state level, there's a constant review process in place, and we appreciate

1390
02:07:44,660 --> 02:07:51,900
that you guys have good work. I definitely appreciate that it's in smaller chunks. The first time we did this,

1391
02:07:51,900 --> 02:07:54,580
there was a 47 of them and it was my first

1392
02:07:54,580 --> 02:07:56,080
council meeting and I was

1393
02:07:56,080 --> 02:07:58,220
dude I was overwhelmed as you know that was

1394
02:07:58,220 --> 02:08:02,100
hazing so I do appreciate that whoever prompted this on

1395
02:08:02,100 --> 02:08:05,120
just do that for new council members I can't wait for the next guy

1396
02:08:05,120 --> 02:08:09,520
it was hazing yeah this is like the count this is like the count down in the

1397
02:08:09,520 --> 02:08:12,180
old days you listen to the radio for the last number one yeah

1398
02:08:12,180 --> 02:08:17,440
he's teasing us with just nine tonight top 10 top nine thank you guys really

1399
02:08:17,440 --> 02:08:18,080
Thank you, Madam Barbel.

1400
02:08:18,740 --> 02:08:19,180
All right.

1401
02:08:19,540 --> 02:08:23,700
If unless there are further questions or considerations if someone has a motion.

1402
02:08:24,740 --> 02:08:26,800
And there is one on page 57.

1403
02:08:27,180 --> 02:08:27,360
I do.

1404
02:08:27,600 --> 02:08:33,700
I'll move that after considering the criteria for text amendments found in the UDA Section 2.17.10,

1405
02:08:34,340 --> 02:08:38,680
the town council finds that the proposed text amendments are consistent with the comprehensive

1406
02:08:38,680 --> 02:08:43,320
plan and are a reasonable way to implement that plan for the reasons that forth in the

1407
02:08:43,320 --> 02:08:49,840
planning boards. Resolution that was included as an attachment to the staff report for OA-03-26.

1408
02:08:50,200 --> 02:08:54,700
Second. All those in favour? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries?

1409
02:08:55,240 --> 02:09:00,440
And therefore I move to approve the proposed amendments to the UDO as shown on the attachments to

1410
02:09:00,440 --> 02:09:08,580
staff report OA-03-26 in the September 8th, 2026 town council packet. Second. All those in favour? Aye.

1411
02:09:08,580 --> 02:09:09,260
Aye Aye.

1412
02:09:09,260 --> 02:09:09,600
Any opposed?

1413
02:09:10,300 --> 02:09:10,920
Motion carries.

1414
02:09:11,480 --> 02:09:12,280
Thank you.

1415
02:09:12,480 --> 02:09:12,880
Awesome.

1416
02:09:13,580 --> 02:09:14,720
All right our last item.

1417
02:09:18,800 --> 02:09:21,060
I did not make time for public comment.

1418
02:09:22,720 --> 02:09:24,080
Can you guys see us a public hearing?

1419
02:09:24,720 --> 02:09:27,320
And we've already heard each other so make time for public comment, if there is any.

1420
02:09:29,300 --> 02:09:31,700
Can you go back here and if there is public comment,

1421
02:09:31,920 --> 02:09:34,080
we'll茶 the phone, and we'll give it so.

1422
02:09:34,080 --> 02:09:36,600
All right being that I skipped over the public comment,

1423
02:09:36,820 --> 02:09:39,580
completely my fault if there is anyone from the public who would like to speak

1424
02:09:40,800 --> 02:09:44,660
Okay, seeing none, thank you. We won't have to recall that.

1425
02:09:45,000 --> 02:09:54,100
All right, our last public hearing this evening is a petition for voluntary annexation of 13.935 acres while number AX-03-26.

1426
02:09:55,080 --> 02:09:56,600
Good evening, Director Grieve.

1427
02:09:59,190 --> 02:10:11,550
Good evening, Madam Mayor, members of Council, B.J. Grieve, with a ton of Southern Pines Planning Department. I have before you this evening an application to annex approximately 13.9 acres.

1428
02:10:11,550 --> 02:10:17,070
located at the southern intersection of Wainer Road and Highway 22. The reason I say southern

1429
02:10:17,070 --> 02:10:20,950
intersection is because Wainer Road comes off and then loops around and comes back. So there's a

1430
02:10:20,950 --> 02:10:25,390
northern intersection with Wainer Road and 22 and there's also a southern intersection. Subject

1431
02:10:25,390 --> 02:10:31,370
property is proposing to Annex in order to develop. This is the property that is the subject of the

1432
02:10:31,370 --> 02:10:36,110
public hearing under the evidentiary hearings. And so again, in order to connect with

1433
02:10:36,110 --> 02:10:42,010
of town water and follow town policy, the property has to annex.

1434
02:10:42,910 --> 02:10:49,030
Now, an interesting part of this annexation that is worth talking about is that the first

1435
02:10:49,030 --> 02:10:54,950
bit being annexed is just over 12 acres, and that is the actual subject property being developed.

1436
02:10:55,710 --> 02:11:00,310
There is another, in the deed, there is another chunk of ground that I'm going to pull up here that,

1437
02:11:00,310 --> 02:11:05,730
when I hit the next button it's going to show is also the property they own but it adds

1438
02:11:05,730 --> 02:11:11,190
approximate other acre to get up to the 13.9 and then it leaves us with one additional

1439
02:11:11,190 --> 02:11:15,410
challenge and this is just kind of interesting history with the description legal descriptions in

1440
02:11:15,410 --> 02:11:21,930
the deeds. Now we have under North Carolina law in order to when we are annexing we have this little

1441
02:11:21,930 --> 02:11:29,430
sliver here that is located on the bottom of Wainer Road you'll see that the second portion I have

1442
02:11:29,430 --> 02:11:35,630
there has this kind of jagged line that leaves portions of Wainer Road not annexed.

1443
02:11:35,930 --> 02:11:39,890
And so we're going to tidy that up in the description you have in the annexation ordinance

1444
02:11:39,890 --> 02:11:40,570
in front of you.

1445
02:11:40,730 --> 02:11:44,870
If you watch for the third piece, we'll now include those pieces as well.

1446
02:11:45,490 --> 02:11:50,410
And then the final question will also, if the general statute allows for the annexation

1447
02:11:50,410 --> 02:11:55,750
of adjacent state rights of way, why not also include Highway 22.

1448
02:11:55,750 --> 02:11:59,630
The reason for that is that on the other side of Highway 22 at the north end there is

1449
02:11:59,630 --> 02:12:03,570
actually whispering pines as jurisdiction, so whether or not they want us to come out

1450
02:12:03,570 --> 02:12:07,450
that far and also the triangle there is owned by Moore County as part of the airport.

1451
02:12:08,110 --> 02:12:13,710
So as part of this annexation, it was a little bit of scope creep to go ahead and start working

1452
02:12:13,710 --> 02:12:16,330
with both whispering pines and Moore County to talk about that.

1453
02:12:16,470 --> 02:12:19,770
It just didn't seem necessary when we could just go ahead and get the property annex and

1454
02:12:19,770 --> 02:12:21,050
also tidy up the way in a road.

1455
02:12:21,050 --> 02:12:25,810
So all of Wainer Road now will be nice and the portions that are annexed, the adjacent

1456
02:12:25,810 --> 02:12:28,610
state-righted way will be tidied up with this annexation.

1457
02:12:29,010 --> 02:12:34,310
So, and that was actually brought to our attention by Reagan early in this annexation process,

1458
02:12:34,490 --> 02:12:35,590
so we appreciate him bringing that up.

1459
02:12:35,850 --> 02:12:39,190
And then, of course, we were able to work very closely with Amy Kirk and our GIS department

1460
02:12:39,190 --> 02:12:43,650
who really did the Omen's work on reviewing the meets and bounds descriptions

1461
02:12:43,650 --> 02:12:47,170
and making sure they were accurate as well as adding this additional piece of right away.

1462
02:12:47,170 --> 02:12:49,490
So we appreciate their help and the assists on all this.

1463
02:12:49,490 --> 02:12:52,670
And of course, that does all the usual stuff on annexation.

1464
02:12:52,870 --> 02:12:55,070
So great team effort across the board.

1465
02:12:55,670 --> 02:12:56,270
As always.

1466
02:12:56,790 --> 02:12:57,410
As always.

1467
02:12:58,550 --> 02:13:01,290
Council, do you have questions for staff on this annexation?

1468
02:13:04,320 --> 02:13:04,400
OK.

1469
02:13:05,200 --> 02:13:07,320
Hearing none, is there anyone from the public who would like to comment?

1470
02:13:10,450 --> 02:13:11,310
Did you have something to add?

1471
02:13:11,950 --> 02:13:12,510
No, next year, OK.

1472
02:13:13,070 --> 02:13:13,250
All right.

1473
02:13:13,970 --> 02:13:14,850
Oh, we're going to wait.

1474
02:13:16,970 --> 02:13:17,850
He's pushing away.

1475
02:13:18,070 --> 02:13:18,750
He's done with you.

1476
02:13:19,230 --> 02:13:19,490
All right.

1477
02:13:19,770 --> 02:13:21,050
I will close the public hearing.

1478
02:13:21,050 --> 02:13:23,270
And if there is a motion, have a couple

1479
02:13:23,270 --> 02:13:24,510
We'll draft it on page 85.

1480
02:13:25,610 --> 02:13:28,190
I'll move the adopted ordinance proving voluntary annexation.

1481
02:13:28,770 --> 02:13:34,410
Request AX-SO3-26 for the property as defined in the legal description attached to the staff

1482
02:13:34,410 --> 02:13:37,210
report and to have the ordinance effective immediately.

1483
02:13:37,630 --> 02:13:37,950
Thank you.

1484
02:13:38,670 --> 02:13:39,170
Is there a second?

1485
02:13:39,730 --> 02:13:40,130
A second.

1486
02:13:40,510 --> 02:13:41,150
All those in favor?

1487
02:13:41,750 --> 02:13:41,910
Aye.

1488
02:13:42,690 --> 02:13:42,950
Any opposed?

1489
02:13:43,430 --> 02:13:43,950
Motion carries.

1490
02:13:44,710 --> 02:13:45,610
Thank you, Director Grieben.

1491
02:13:45,830 --> 02:13:47,250
Welcome to the podium.

1492
02:13:47,830 --> 02:13:48,130
Mason.

1493
02:13:49,350 --> 02:13:52,090
Moving on to our last public hearing.

1494
02:13:52,090 --> 02:13:55,730
It is an evidentiary hearing as such.

1495
02:13:55,810 --> 02:14:00,530
We have a small audience tonight, but for the benefit of the public, this hearing is

1496
02:14:00,530 --> 02:14:02,350
quasi-judicial and evidentiary.

1497
02:14:02,850 --> 02:14:07,490
State law sets specific procedures and rules for bringing how the board must behave and

1498
02:14:07,490 --> 02:14:08,190
make its decision.

1499
02:14:08,690 --> 02:14:12,410
Our discretion is limited and decisions must be based on competent, relevant and substantial

1500
02:14:12,410 --> 02:14:13,350
evidence on the record.

1501
02:14:13,830 --> 02:14:17,510
If you'll be speaking as a witness, please focus on the facts and standards, not personal

1502
02:14:17,510 --> 02:14:18,310
preference or opinion.

1503
02:14:19,930 --> 02:14:35,690
other individuals may serve as witnesses when called by the board and testimony is limited to facts not opinions anyone providing expert opinion on property value and traffic will need to have professional expertise in that field and provide evidence upon which their expert opinion is based and must swear or firm their testimony.

1504
02:14:36,130 --> 02:14:43,450
At this time will administer the oath for all individuals who intend to provide witness testimony if you will stand and raise your right hand.

1505
02:14:48,430 --> 02:14:52,670
Do you swear to tell the truth and only the truth in your testimony as well as responses

1506
02:14:52,670 --> 02:14:53,390
to questions?

1507
02:14:53,950 --> 02:14:54,370
Yes.

1508
02:14:54,570 --> 02:14:54,890
Thank you.

1509
02:14:55,070 --> 02:14:57,510
And now our attorney will qualify the council.

1510
02:14:58,170 --> 02:14:59,970
Does any member of council have a-

1511
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:29,900
Fixed opinion prior to this hearing that is not susceptible to change. No. Has any member of council had exparte communications about this matter? No. Does any member of council have a close familial business or other association relationship with an affected person? No. Does any member of council have a financial interest in the outcome of this matter? No. Does the applicant or any other party

1512
02:15:29,900 --> 02:15:34,340
We wish to challenge any member of council on the basis of bias or impartiality.

1513
02:15:38,760 --> 02:15:41,140
Do you wish to challenge any member of council?

1514
02:15:41,400 --> 02:15:41,460
No.

1515
02:15:42,460 --> 02:15:43,100
Thank you.

1516
02:15:43,100 --> 02:15:43,200
All right.

1517
02:15:43,380 --> 02:15:44,120
Thank you, Attorney Maccarly.

1518
02:15:44,500 --> 02:15:44,660
All right.

1519
02:15:44,780 --> 02:15:45,340
You can proceed.

1520
02:15:45,840 --> 02:15:46,140
All right.

1521
02:15:46,380 --> 02:15:51,020
Staff enters the staff report dated to say into the record as Exhibit A and the associated

1522
02:15:51,020 --> 02:15:52,460
presentation as Exhibit B.

1523
02:15:53,600 --> 02:15:54,180
All right.

1524
02:15:54,280 --> 02:15:57,900
This is actually three applications that we are rolling into one for convenience outside of

1525
02:15:57,900 --> 02:16:03,020
the annexation, the preliminary development plan, the subdivision which is the MAPP file

1526
02:16:03,020 --> 02:16:07,340
and then also watershed allocation. That's the subject property zone PD that looks familiar.

1527
02:16:07,460 --> 02:16:13,620
The council approved a conceptual development plan back in June. Subject property is very

1528
02:16:13,620 --> 02:16:19,240
heavily forested as of within the past half year when that was taken. Friendly reminder, this is part

1529
02:16:19,240 --> 02:16:23,800
two of three in the process of building on a planned development. This would be the last time that

1530
02:16:23,800 --> 02:16:28,460
the council would see this application, essentially, is what I'm getting at. I'm bringing up another

1531
02:16:28,460 --> 02:16:32,520
Another example of these, just for your orientation on how detailed this one actually is,

1532
02:16:32,760 --> 02:16:37,700
a CDP for the target, home goods development, if you will, in Morton Park, includes land

1533
02:16:37,700 --> 02:16:41,200
uses, and each PDP is brought in to assume compliance with those.

1534
02:16:42,160 --> 02:16:47,220
We have something very different with this application, and that's that the approved conceptual

1535
02:16:47,220 --> 02:16:51,920
development plan actually looks very similar to the proposed preliminary development plan.

1536
02:16:52,640 --> 02:16:56,400
Council has been a long time since we've gone to the eye doctor together, it's like a

1537
02:16:56,400 --> 02:16:56,780
couple months.

1538
02:16:56,780 --> 02:17:02,180
so do you prefer one or two? Or they're about the same. I think they're about the same,

1539
02:17:02,180 --> 02:17:07,040
and that's my purpose this evening. There are some changes here. I'll show I'll go over

1540
02:17:07,040 --> 02:17:11,560
where the refinements are. But again, it's unusual to have this level of detail with the CDP,

1541
02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:15,780
and staff appreciates it because that makes this hopefully that much easier.

1542
02:17:17,040 --> 02:17:23,340
This is the proposed subdivision, if you will. The 100-foot buffers probably the biggest component

1543
02:17:23,340 --> 02:17:26,420
of this whole thing against Highway 22, that is retained.

1544
02:17:27,220 --> 02:17:29,620
The numbering has shifted as well as phasing,

1545
02:17:29,940 --> 02:17:31,240
no issues without whatsoever.

1546
02:17:31,460 --> 02:17:34,220
That's all done so that the church can take their piece,

1547
02:17:34,220 --> 02:17:35,760
which is basically the whole right half.

1548
02:17:36,600 --> 02:17:39,380
Chop it off as a minor subdivision and start building.

1549
02:17:39,740 --> 02:17:40,600
That's why all this is done,

1550
02:17:40,720 --> 02:17:41,780
and why the lot numbering is different.

1551
02:17:42,460 --> 02:17:44,280
As far as layout and everything else goes,

1552
02:17:44,520 --> 02:17:46,160
no inconsistencies identified by staff.

1553
02:17:48,060 --> 02:17:51,500
This red area is what Mr. Lindsey has provided

1554
02:17:51,500 --> 02:17:52,860
to show in purview surface.

1555
02:17:52,860 --> 02:17:55,440
this is part of the application for watershed.

1556
02:17:55,960 --> 02:17:57,720
It's actually not for the entire site,

1557
02:17:58,320 --> 02:17:59,540
and I know it's a lot to keep up with,

1558
02:17:59,620 --> 02:18:01,200
what's being annexed and what for watershed for it.

1559
02:18:01,260 --> 02:18:02,940
The residential portions, everything outside

1560
02:18:02,940 --> 02:18:05,820
of that blue square is at about 20%,

1561
02:18:05,820 --> 02:18:06,920
so they don't need the allocation.

1562
02:18:07,340 --> 02:18:08,420
The church does need it.

1563
02:18:08,520 --> 02:18:09,960
They're going up to about 40%,

1564
02:18:10,440 --> 02:18:13,200
which is in between that 24 maximum

1565
02:18:13,200 --> 02:18:15,380
without your approval and 70% with your approval.

1566
02:18:18,110 --> 02:18:20,750
All right, the criteria for the

1567
02:18:20,750 --> 02:18:26,150
the preliminary development plan is on the left, subdivision on the right, everything green

1568
02:18:26,150 --> 02:18:31,950
is what staff found to be consistent. The yellow, I'll discuss as part of a condition, but no

1569
02:18:31,950 --> 02:18:37,670
inconsistencies identified, staff thinks that the image you see here matches this one.

1570
02:18:39,870 --> 02:18:40,070
All right,

1571
02:18:40,190 --> 02:18:44,450
staff is recommending two conditions as part of this. The first, with the PDP, it would be condition

1572
02:18:44,450 --> 02:18:49,390
one with the PDP approves watershed allocation to just the church. To find that to be a reasonable

1573
02:18:49,390 --> 02:18:54,330
use of watershed allocation credits, it would just be for 7.41, as Director Greve mentioned,

1574
02:18:54,530 --> 02:18:59,830
the whole parcels are about 13 acres, so watershed for half only, staff loves not wasting it

1575
02:18:59,830 --> 02:19:06,090
and using it resourcefully, and belief that is doing so. Second thing, right after planning board,

1576
02:19:06,530 --> 02:19:12,210
staff received letter from the Moore County Airport saying that the development needs to fill out

1577
02:19:12,210 --> 02:19:16,490
a form and be reviewed by the FAA, that is the Federal Aviation Administration,

1578
02:19:16,970 --> 02:19:21,530
To ensure that nothing hazardous is being proposed, staff assumes that that would relate

1579
02:19:21,530 --> 02:19:24,750
to things such as, for example, steeple height, maybe.

1580
02:19:26,810 --> 02:19:30,490
That to staff's knowledge has not been filled out yet, but staff is confident that that

1581
02:19:30,490 --> 02:19:35,190
can be mitigated with the site plan review process after this, and so that conditions essentially

1582
02:19:35,190 --> 02:19:40,270
says that they have to do so and address any concerns of the FAA, a federal agency, before

1583
02:19:40,270 --> 02:19:44,050
we would approve the site plan, which would likely be the case anyways, but we're just putting

1584
02:19:44,050 --> 02:19:50,230
it in there to not be nice and clean. Finding no inconsistencies. Oh, let me go over

1585
02:19:50,230 --> 02:19:54,850
the timeline real quick too. This is just over your old gentleman from Salt Lake City reached

1586
02:19:54,850 --> 02:19:59,230
out to me in June of 2025 to discuss the possibility of building a church. You may recall

1587
02:19:59,230 --> 02:20:04,170
from the CDP discussions that this has had a lot of back and forth. Eleven revisions before

1588
02:20:04,170 --> 02:20:07,230
this even went to the planning board and then following planning board. There's discussions

1589
02:20:07,230 --> 02:20:11,430
of a public road being built. Just another shout out to the applicant in this case,

1590
02:20:13,690 --> 02:20:14,030
the

1591
02:20:14,030 --> 02:20:15,590
sat through all the other hearings this evening,

1592
02:20:15,670 --> 02:20:18,310
but worked with me and sat through dealing with me

1593
02:20:18,990 --> 02:20:21,990
to make sure that this is clean and tidy for you all this evening.

1594
02:20:23,330 --> 02:20:25,710
Staff does not find outstanding issues for that reason,

1595
02:20:26,090 --> 02:20:28,150
trying to keep it nice and easy for you.

1596
02:20:29,050 --> 02:20:31,190
And because we've worked so hard on the CDP together,

1597
02:20:31,550 --> 02:20:33,970
Staff recommends approval of the preliminary development plan

1598
02:20:33,970 --> 02:20:35,930
and major subdivision preliminary plat,

1599
02:20:37,290 --> 02:20:39,070
as presented to you this evening.

1600
02:20:40,650 --> 02:20:41,310
Thank you.

1601
02:20:41,390 --> 02:20:41,870
That's all I have.

1602
02:20:42,210 --> 02:20:42,630
Thank you.

1603
02:20:42,630 --> 02:20:44,910
All right, Councilor, are there questions for staff?

1604
02:20:47,710 --> 02:20:49,030
You've done a really good job at outlining,

1605
02:20:49,930 --> 02:20:51,530
especially when we come back with this hearing,

1606
02:20:51,750 --> 02:20:54,630
the fact that we are trying to match the CDP,

1607
02:20:54,730 --> 02:20:57,530
it's really nice to have it clean-line through it.

1608
02:20:57,750 --> 02:21:00,330
Yeah, just an appreciation for the work you put into it.

1609
02:21:00,470 --> 02:21:00,810
Thank you.

1610
02:21:02,110 --> 02:21:04,930
I'm Kevin Lindsay, engineer for this project,

1611
02:21:06,430 --> 02:21:07,850
and Mason's covered everything.

1612
02:21:08,130 --> 02:21:09,010
So I'll just hear that.

1613
02:21:09,410 --> 02:21:11,190
If you have any questions with me, I'll try to answer.

1614
02:21:12,630 --> 02:21:14,010
So one of the things that did change,

1615
02:21:14,010 --> 02:21:21,190
I notice was a there's a right in right out for traffic. Yes. Okay. Can we? There it is.

1616
02:21:23,490 --> 02:21:24,090
Okay.

1617
02:21:29,090 --> 02:21:29,690
That

1618
02:21:32,660 --> 02:21:37,380
particular drawing doesn't show it very well. No, but they're labeled.

1619
02:21:38,860 --> 02:21:46,740
Okay, but go. So there's an addition of a turn lane on to wainer and it's two way interns there.

1620
02:21:46,740 --> 02:21:48,780
And then right in, right out in the other one.

1621
02:21:49,320 --> 02:21:53,480
Will there be a median where there's a right in, right out to avoid people turning left?

1622
02:21:55,730 --> 02:21:57,820
We have to submit for a driveway permit.

1623
02:21:58,240 --> 02:22:08,160
And so unless DOT requires it, I would not recommend a median there simply because there's

1624
02:22:08,160 --> 02:22:15,100
enough, I think you're starting to get into the approaching the turn lanes, the three lane

1625
02:22:15,100 --> 02:22:21,560
road is changing in that area. And I don't think it's necessary. There's always a possibility

1626
02:22:21,560 --> 02:22:26,840
that somebody's going to drive around it and go the other way. But I wouldn't put it in there

1627
02:22:26,840 --> 02:22:32,560
unless DOT. We have to do whatever DOT says. If DOT looks at it, it says he wants to do something,

1628
02:22:32,680 --> 02:22:40,840
we'll have to do it. And we will. So I hope to get that permit in this week, assuming that it's

1629
02:22:40,840 --> 02:22:41,600
approved tonight.

1630
02:22:44,220 --> 02:22:48,180
I'm trying to do that. Council, do you have the questions for the applicant?

1631
02:22:56,070 --> 02:23:00,090
Is there anyone from the public who would like to comment on this application?

1632
02:23:02,010 --> 02:23:07,890
Say that like we have an audience. All right. Council, before I close the public hearing,

1633
02:23:08,030 --> 02:23:12,090
do you all have other questions or would you like anyone else to come in and speak or answer?

1634
02:23:13,810 --> 02:23:14,530
questions clarify.

1635
02:23:16,770 --> 02:23:20,710
No, ma'am. I'm okay. I'm going to close the public hearing. Is there

1636
02:23:20,710 --> 02:23:27,590
any motion on? Yes, sir. Can we make one motion? Would you like to? You can make one motion.

1637
02:23:27,810 --> 02:23:33,950
Okay. Thank you. All right. So a motion on the PD and the preliminary plot.

1638
02:23:38,080 --> 02:23:42,620
Turn the figure on the component. I'll move to adopt. You can do it, sir. If I may,

1639
02:23:42,620 --> 02:23:44,380
Okay, that's not how we set them up in the staff report.

1640
02:23:44,640 --> 02:23:51,700
We set them up as we think in consistent with what Attorney Macarly just said is that the motions to adopt

1641
02:23:51,700 --> 02:23:56,060
attachment one as findings of fact and then to approve with the one condition for the PDP.

1642
02:23:56,360 --> 02:24:01,480
That could be wrapped into one motion and then the motions to approve the findings of fact for

1643
02:24:01,480 --> 02:24:05,700
the preliminary flat and then approve with one condition that could be wrapped into one.

1644
02:24:05,880 --> 02:24:11,420
So you'd have two total motions to cover the two different applications.

1645
02:24:11,420 --> 02:24:21,350
Is that work for you of course there is an easier way to do it but yes given how it's written up yes that works all right we'll do that

1646
02:24:21,350 --> 02:24:25,850
That's the easiest way it's written the way that you all would like it in the records and we'll stick with that

1647
02:24:26,550 --> 02:24:34,430
Okay, so we have the first motion. I'll adopt a test one of the staff report as drafted as the findings of fact for PD-File-26

1648
02:24:34,950 --> 02:24:38,010
Is there a second second all those in favor?

1649
02:24:38,010 --> 02:24:40,970
Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries.

1650
02:24:41,230 --> 02:24:44,710
And as such, I will move to approve the preliminary development

1651
02:24:44,710 --> 02:24:49,690
plan for PDO 5-26 with the following condition indicated in

1652
02:24:49,690 --> 02:24:52,310
the report, I'm dealing with the allocated water shed

1653
02:24:52,310 --> 02:24:52,530
exemption.

1654
02:24:54,730 --> 02:24:59,270
Second. All done in favor? Aye. Any opposed? No, it's

1655
02:24:59,270 --> 02:25:01,930
okay. You were quicker than I was. I'm glad you are. All right.

1656
02:25:02,070 --> 02:25:06,170
And then that one passes. So we'll move on to the motion regarding

1657
02:25:08,670 --> 02:25:13,290
I'll move though, we adopt attachment two of the staff report as drafted as findings

1658
02:25:13,290 --> 02:25:18,210
effect regarding the proposed preliminary plat MAPP-02-26.

1659
02:25:18,790 --> 02:25:19,690
Is there a second?

1660
02:25:20,470 --> 02:25:20,730
Second.

1661
02:25:21,290 --> 02:25:21,850
All those in favor?

1662
02:25:22,630 --> 02:25:22,750
Aye.

1663
02:25:23,290 --> 02:25:23,650
Any opposed?

1664
02:25:24,210 --> 02:25:24,670
Motion carries.

1665
02:25:25,430 --> 02:25:31,230
Therefore, I'll move to approve the preliminary plat for MAPP-02-26 with the following

1666
02:25:31,230 --> 02:25:36,210
So in condition related to the federal agency compliance in the packet.

1667
02:25:36,550 --> 02:25:37,170
Is there a second?

1668
02:25:37,890 --> 02:25:38,170
Second.

1669
02:25:38,770 --> 02:25:39,330
All those in favor?

1670
02:25:39,990 --> 02:25:40,330
Hi.

1671
02:25:40,750 --> 02:25:41,070
Any opposed?

1672
02:25:41,830 --> 02:25:42,350
Motion carries.

1673
02:25:42,750 --> 02:25:43,530
Thank you so much.

1674
02:25:43,850 --> 02:25:46,170
I will hear a motion to adjourn the meeting for this evening.

1675
02:25:47,970 --> 02:25:49,630
I'll make a motion to adjourn the meeting.

1676
02:25:49,990 --> 02:25:50,130
All right.

1677
02:25:50,270 --> 02:25:50,830
Is there a second?

1678
02:25:51,390 --> 02:25:51,650
Second.

1679
02:25:52,010 --> 02:25:52,610
All those in favor?

1680
02:25:53,230 --> 02:25:53,650
Hi.

1681
02:25:54,050 --> 02:25:54,670
Thank you.

1682
02:25:55,030 --> 02:25:58,910
Just as a note to the public, we have the 25th anniversary of 9-11.

1683
02:25:58,910 --> 02:26:06,590
A event will be held at 830 outside the Sunrise Theater in the green space if you're able

1684
02:26:06,590 --> 02:26:07,090
to attend.

1685
02:26:07,590 --> 02:26:12,950
It's a great opportunity to reflect on the history but also to recognize our current

1686
02:26:12,950 --> 02:26:13,690
first responders.

1687
02:26:14,310 --> 02:26:18,190
It's always a hard but good event.

1688
02:26:18,410 --> 02:26:19,430
So I hope to see some of you there.

1689
02:26:20,150 --> 02:26:21,090
Thank you guys.

1690
02:26:22,030 --> 02:26:22,750
Anything else?

1691
02:26:23,830 --> 02:26:24,350
Okay.

1692
02:26:24,710 --> 02:26:24,970
Done.

1693
02:26:27,910 --> 02:26:28,630
Thanks, Ellen.

1694
02:26:28,630 --> 02:26:32,420
It makes me feel better.

1695
02:26:32,660 --> 02:26:36,260
He's in for eight hours, was like 30 hours long.

1696
02:26:37,880 --> 02:26:42,340
My hazing was, I had 12 hours hearing in my bedroom on the computer.

1697
02:26:42,480 --> 02:26:44,020
Oh my god, over here.

1698
02:26:46,540 --> 02:26:47,100
Yeah.