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>> all right, 6:30. Thank you for your patience and adherence to state law. Appreciate that.

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my name is dan kubiak, chairman of the planning and zoning commission here in city of southlake.

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thank you for joining us this evening in city hall. This is our january 8, 2026 meeting.

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we've got a fairly modest agenda,

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but we'll do our best to get through it expeditiously here. Maybe I'll just skip ahead,

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make some of my comments real quick, and then we'll go to administrative comments. If you haven't been to one of these meetings before, generally,

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the way it works is we'll have a staff presentation on a various item,

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and then we'll have an applicant come up, and they'll do a presentation. We'll be asking questions throughout.

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then after that, we'll have a public hearing where folks can come forward and just make

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their comments known to us here on the dias about a particular application.

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we, typically, give you up to three minutes just to be cognizant of other people who want to speak as well.

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you'll see there's some little lights on the podium stand there that are green for a couple minutes,

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yellow for the third minute, and then start to flash red. Please ask that you mind that if that's okay. We'll have public hearing.

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comment on that, then we'll close the public hearing and then we'll deliberate and come to a recommendation that we'll send along to city council.

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that's the lay of the land in terms of how things work. Maybe with that, we'll go ahead to the third item real quick, administrative items.

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mr. Dennis, I think we have something this evening, right?

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>> [inaudible] would like to address the commission. >> does he get the three minute as well?

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>> I would like to invite mary mccaskill ford. >> we'll see if we need that or not. Appreciate it.

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>> good evening. Mr. Chairman, commissioners. Happy new year. I will stick to under the three minutes.

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I'll be respectful of your time and everyone's time here, but happy new year, and on behalf of the city council,

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we wanted to thank all of you for all of your service last year in 2025 and all the service you're going to provide to the city this year in 2026.

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as you all know, I'm in alum of p&z way back when, I won't say how many years to age myself,

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but even to today, 70% of what we see at city council has come through y'all,

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whether it's development cases or signs. I have to say, all have put in so much work both last year and in years past,

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but especially last year, the cases, the way they were worked over, and ready to go, we sincerely appreciate all of your efforts.

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it doesn't matter how you vote, but the thoughtfulness, the time,

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the issue spotting, the red flags, all those things were so well done, and it's so appreciated by myself and everyone on city council.

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thank you so much for the service and the great work you've done last year,

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and we look forward to more of the same this year. I also say in 2025,

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the city council commissioned having challenge coins made to hand out to people in our city,

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our fellow residents who have given back in so many different ways, whether it's here in this room,

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on a border commission or through our schools or coaching our kids or serving in some special way.

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to start off this new year, now there's three of y'all who have been serving on p&z for more than 10 years.

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I think collectively, chairman kubiak and vice chairman forman and dr. Springer have served almost 50 years combined,

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so y'all are in good hands tonight with these guys. But I wanted to thank you guys,

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especially for your service more than 10 years each, and collectively your service.

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I enjoyed serving with y'all, two of you on zba and then on p&z together with all three of you,

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so I have challenge coins for all three of you as a small token of our appreciation from the city council

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on behalf of the city of southlake for your service. I know, gina, you're getting pretty close,

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so probably pretty soon, we'll get you to the 10-year mark, but thank you guys for your service.

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thank you for the way you represent the city through the planning and zoning commission and keep up the good work,

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so god speed, and thank you so much. If you'd come down, I'll hand you the challenge coins, we'll take a quick picture. Three guys.

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>> thank you very much, mr. Mayor, we appreciate the support of city council and all the communication we have.

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that's really what helps make it very efficient. It's I think our pleasure to serve

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behest of the residents and the city and watch everything develop out. I know a lot of us up here.

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have lived here a long time, and it's been fun watching things develop out in a quality manner. Thank you very much.

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>> most of the 50 years. [background].

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>> now, thank you again, and I maybe remiss in mentioning earlier that for us to have quality output,

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city staff has been a huge part of that. I think, dennis, you probably have 50 years here alone.

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it seems at this point, you've been here a long time, you and the staff really help us in terms of being

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prepared and giving quality deliberations here, so thank you for that.

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with that, we will move on expeditiously to item number 5 on our agenda,

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which is consideration approval of the minutes held from our meeting on november 20,

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any edits or additions to that before we entertain a motion. >> mr. Chairman, I make a motion,

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and we approve item number 5 on our agenda. >> I have a motion. Do we have a second?

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>> second. >> let's go and vote, please.

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sometimes, this can be the toughest part. There we go.

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passes with 5-0 with one person abstaining. Thank you very much for that.

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now, we will go ahead and move on to item number 6 on our agenda this evening,

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which is a zoning change and development plan for jane's place.

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>> good evening. I'll be presenting item number 6,

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zoning change development plan for jane's place. The applicant is requesting a zoning change development plan for jane's place

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located at 1318 through 1364 north of peytonville avenue.

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here's an aerial view of the properties that they will be developing.

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the future land use is low density residential, and it has two current zoning designations, right here in the middle.

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it is sf1a and the rest are ag for agricultural district.

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here is a street view from north peytonville avenue looking west into the property.

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also from north peytonville avenue, looking southwest and then looking northwest.

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here is their proposed the bellman plan showing 15 single-family residential home lots with two open space lots.

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some of their site data summary and proposed rpa development regulations are located on this slide.

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as you can see here on the right, they are mirroring sf-1a, for the most part,

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their maximum lot coverage, they are upping that to 40% rather than the 20% that is normalized for sf-1a.

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their accessory structure lot coverage will be no greater than 2,000 square feet,

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and their minimum house floor area will be 5,500 square feet.

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down here at the bottom, they are having a deviation from

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typical rpud regulations where the retention and detention pond area is located within the drainage easement,

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our zoning ordinance calls for it to not exceed 25%. Their current proposed development plan has it at 27.1%,

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but they are proposing for it to be a maximum of 38% on that regulation.

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they are requesting two variances as well. The first one, waiving the requirements,

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the subdivision ordinance at the existing dead end street located in the cross river hills addition,

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specifically, wood creek lane will not be connected to this development.

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then also requesting a variance to construct

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internal sidewalks and a 5-8 foot wide sidewalk along north peytonville avenue.

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here is the proposed fencing and wall plan for the area.

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they are retaining a good amount of existing iron wood and chain link

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fences with also adding in some 6' iron fences,

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and they're going to have this theme entry fence masonry wall located on the entrance of the development.

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here is their tree conservation plan. The total site area is just under 971,000 square feet of tree canopy coverage.

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they are proposing to preserve just about 61% of that,

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and about 38% of that will be removed.

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here is their preliminary water utility plan showing the existing 6'' water line towards the southern portion of the property.

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they'll be connecting to that with running an 8'' water line throughout the street,

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and then also connecting to the existing 12'' water line that runs on north peytonville avenue.

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here's their preliminary sewer utility plan. The connection point is up here in the top left,

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existing 10'' sewer line, and they'll be proposing to run an 8'' sewer line throughout the development.

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here's the proposed drainage and grading plan. Most of the drainage will be captured in the curb inlets along the streets and

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filter down to the detention area that connects to higgins branch creek,

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further water retention and drainage.

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here's the rendering of type of housing they'll be building in the area.

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then this one here shows the aesthetic of the detention area and the pond that they will integrate into the open space.

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as of today, we have had three responses from surrounding property owners,

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one within 200, who is opposed, and then a couple outside 300,

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one for and one against. Happy to answer any questions.

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>> maybe a couple one for me, and then we can let others jump in.

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it is consistent with the low density land use designation?

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>> correct. All minimum one acre lots. >> then on the sidewalk variance request,

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even if I guess it's granted and they don't have to construct it, would the city still be able to get the right of way

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for future down the road, use if desired?

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>> right of way would be required based on cross-section required for peyton bill.

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a sidewalk should fit within the boundary of that. They're proposing private street at this point,

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and I don't believe they're asking or proposing sidewalks within the neighborhood,

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so that's also under your consideration, whether they provide that or not,

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but right of way should be in place for a sidewalk.

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>> even if a variance is granted on constructing it today, the ability to do that in the future would still be there?

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>> yes. >> anyone else to hop in questions for staff?

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>> I was just wondering if there's any plans for widening the main street out there, coming up in the future.

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do we have any plans for that so there would be other sidewalks, or other improvements in that same area or up and down the entire street?

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>> the ultimate width for peyton bill is,

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I just want to make sure I was correct, 70', but we do not plan for it being any wider than two lanes.

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there'll be pavement maintenance that takes place.

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that 70' right of way if needed.

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if traffic conditions warrant is wide enough to potentially do a turn lane

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where one might be needed for left turn movements,

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but I don't know that there's any particular areas that that's an issue right now.

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>> maybe riffing off that real quick. Anything on pathways for that,

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or is there just nothing contemplated at this time?

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>> just what's required by way of the subdivision ordinance,

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so it just does

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require 5-8 foot minimum wide sidewalk,

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the minimum being 5', but the pathway plan designates it as a 8' or

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less sidewalk and subdivision ordinance stipulates it cannot be less than five,

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so that's the minimum that would be required.

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>> I know we have a comprehensive sidewalk plan that's

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been worked on for a couple of years and has several more years to go, where we're going to be going back and adding sidewalks in all over the city.

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with that the plan, it doesn't seem it makes much sense to me to continue to leave behind spots where we

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don't build sidewalks when we're trying to get sidewalks built in all the rest of the city.

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the issue of not building at all, I don't think is something I would support.

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I do think it's a bit of a headache to

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escrow money that the city has to keep track of and then the city build them one of these days.

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in fact, the builders that build these homes are going to be the ones that build the sidewalk anyway.

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so it's not going to really change the developer's cost. It's going to affect the building costs,

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but I do know that if the sidewalk is built, it will be there and it will better implement

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our overall sidewalk plan as we build out the rest of the city in the sidewalk system.

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>> we'll deliberate on that when we get to that portion,

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but appreciate your thoughts. Any other comment questions for staff?

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good. Thank you. We'll play back up, if we need some help.

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appreciate it. I'll go ahead and have the applicant come up, please.

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please state name and address for the record.

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>> jerry statham. My address is 2905 peninsula drive and grapevine, texas.

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>> torin johnson, I live off the peninsula also in grapevine.

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>> first, just an opening your remark, mr. Kubiak, I think I saw you or met you at the corridor meeting,

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and I would like to also acknowledge staff, it's been, I wouldn't say a long time on this,

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but there's been a lot of interaction. I'll get to that in the meeting,

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but I just appreciate all the professionalism and timely responses for us.

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just a little bit about us. Torin and I, we graduated from grapevine,

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apologize for that back in the day. We did graduate between the two of us four dragons here since 2020.

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I run a bigger investment group that does a lot of national stuff outside of this area,

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but when I do develop in texas, it's here locally. Torin is a retired bedford firefighter for 25 years and has

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been building and helping me develop for over 15 years, probably.

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>> just about us, philosophy-wise, we both live up on peninsula drive,

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which is around the bend and kimble, we both live on lake gravine,

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we back up to the core. We appreciate we walk back there,

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kids grew up back there, our dogs and stuff and wildlife. When we got a chance to look at jane's place just to acquire it,

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it was a pretty special place. I don't know how many of you have been had a chance to be there.

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I couldn't believe it existed when we first saw it 22 acres that had that many trees and the natural wildlife.

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as a developer and a home builder, it's not something you get every day,

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certainly in south lake. Just to give you our philosophy was just we wanted to keep the green space green.

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a lot of the wildlife that exists in that area use that water source.

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they probably are not going to like all the disruption if it gets developed,

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but we hired a team, and that was our goal.

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tom pritchett, I think I may have hit went by a slide too fast.

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but he helped develop the landscape. I did a skip by him.

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he did a lot of work in vaquero and a lot of other stuff.

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I charged tom when we hired him save every tree, every tree that we can.

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you'll see there's some unique things that we did here, just because there was a huge tree in this,

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and let's take the road here and not do just a straight road and mow down some things.

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we have put as much care as we can into this development.

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we started 22 acres. I mentioned corridor. I got some very direct feedback.

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net one acre are bigger, so didn't bother with anything else but that.

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minimal improvements to the existing pond, why I say minimal don't want to disrupt and create

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a big concrete pool there when there's a natural water source.

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we wanted to replace the existing fencing, obviously to clean that up,

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but keep that look. I think we like that look when we saw it, tom,

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appreciated that look, so it'll be I have a picture of that a little later. Spent some time, attended corridor,

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had a long spin meeting with the neighbors. But it was good because we got a lot of feedback that we looked

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at what the city wanted to do with connecting roads and appreciate all that. But there was a very strong opinion from the neighborhood,

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and that part of it, these are our neighbors, and we're neighbors here, too. We wanted to listen and do the best we could and try to keep

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everyone as happy as we can when change.

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nobody wants to change. The final thing, when we went through spin, it was so long, staff had reviewed that.

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there's a lot you guys are going to hear it. I'm sure, but there was a lot of discussion about stormwater from peytonville,

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that happens to flow across the property. Staff said you guys,

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you need to pass this along to your engineering team, and they alerted us to some information that we didn't have as developers,

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which is important, especially when you inherit things like water that come across your property,

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you don't create them, and you don't know about that, it's hard to account for that.

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we did get a chance to review that in september. We started here and we talked a little bit about that,

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and so we're proposing number one to just come across peytonville in.

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there were a couple of things that we had to get approved by staff, fire, safety, stuff like that, the length of the road.

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but the main thing we wanted to do when we propose this was not interrupt the pond area.

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we did a wetland study in that area to determine if there's anything we could disturb.

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we can, in fact it's not a wetland designated. You can see from here where the pond starts now is where we want to come across the back.

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we want to minimize the impact of the structure. Obviously, clean it up for erosion control,

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where we can leave berms in, and then abandon the wood creek and come over.

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I think that keeps mainly. There are probably some neighbors that will border like this whole property that won't

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have nice forest views or whatever they have today,

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that will have things to say, but mainly to avoid the interruption to that neighborhood on their request.

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this is the fencing, the example. It's like it is today, but updated materials.

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again, where there are steep areas around the pond, we want to put in and make sure that we can maintain those.

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we're doing that for two reasons, number 1, our intent when we're done is to hold capacity

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for all of our storm water that we generate on the property plus 20%.

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that we want to achieve that. We're a little short of that today because there are some other factors I'm going to get into.

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I think we will be able to achieve that, but we will need to be able for that water to eb and flow up and down,

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which leads me to the stormwater concept. When we found out and were made privy of the study,

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we immediately went to work with what was the problem. We have met with staff.

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a couple of times, either on the phone in person or brought my whole team in.

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this is off of a study that the city hired to do more of a larger city study.

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that's really looking at a lot of branches on this side. We were just or the higgins branch was one part of that.

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the main problem that caused all the storm water that you may hear about that we talked about comes from this side of peytonville,

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the other side of the street, was done by half engineering. We picked up that study and said,

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how can we solve this problem? There were a couple other methods.

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one was taking this thing all the way down or north on peytonville and cutting through the project,

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that was one of their suggestions, given what they had. The other one was coming down our north boundary and cutting over to

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post where you can see up here. It's really coming all the way across here,

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the back of these houses, and then here and then back into the higgins branch.

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the team our team recognize an opportunity that we're going to be putting a road in here,

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and could we put instead of a 10 or 20 foot mow down of all these trees,

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which would obviously ruin a lot of trees, but also ruin a lot of privacy on both sides,

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certainly these neighbors here. My guys said, why don't we go talk to the city about putting this under our road?

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that's what we're going to work on with the city. I think from a disruption of traffic and trees and neighbors and streets,

229
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it's infinitely less expensive to do this in terms of that,

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from a cost wise, also, if we're digging a ditch, and we're going to put a road anyway,

231
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why don't we just put this flow under our road? That's what we have proposed.

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I would say for 50, 60, 75% there.

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there's a couple options that we're still working with staff on, engineering wise.

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could we put it into this retention pond? It's a lot of water.

235
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it's somewhere between 172 105 cfs in the event of a huge storm. It's a lot of water.

236
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that's why we said 38% on the pond. We're at 27.1% now.

237
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but we thought if we do want to bring it into the pond,

238
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then we would need to expand the size of it, and we would come south.

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I don't like that idea. I don't think my engineers love that idea, and I'm not sure staff loves it,

240
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but it's on the table until we eliminate it as an alternative. The other one would be to do what we're doing now,

241
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which just to carry it directly under the street, using this engineered the way that

242
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half and the engineers are putting together and put it right into the higgins branch.

243
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we're still working on some items there, but you guys have questions on this.

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this is my last slide, by the way. >> the blue storm line that's going down the street.

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it's picking up primarily the water that's on the east side of peytonville? >> yes. Primarily, it's all it's doing.

246
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>> it's not picking up any of the curve inlens or anything that's along?

247
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>> no, that would be detained in this. >> the actual surface drainage off of the streets is going to go into the pond,

248
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and what you're doing with this storm main is you're picking the water up that's now running across the site.

249
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>> that's right. >> you're basically lot 1. >> it's hitting lot 1 and 2.

250
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what would required, we're surveying this side,

251
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the north side of peytonville now, about 50 feet. We have the order in to catch mailboxes and all that stuff.

252
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but really when you look at the study, the water starts here.

253
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it starts all the way here. Just think about this whole area.

254
00:27:03,305 --> 00:27:05,975
then about right here, you start to lose topo,

255
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so you're going uphill. It naturally slopes across this and then into

256
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the back of all of these houses across mostly lot one, but part of a lot two.

257
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>> your engineers are telling you now that it's going to pick this water up in a pipe,

258
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and you're going to get it down the street and back to the the natural drainage and get it

259
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off of the surface that's currently going through these yards. >> that's right. Correct. What it would require when it's all

260
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said and done is we have we're just putting a large catch base in here. That is the low point,

261
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but there may be one here, one here. But the idea would be to catch all the water before it crosses peytonville,

262
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send it into a master catch basin.

263
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this is not small amount of water. I think it's two, three by four,

264
00:28:01,970 --> 00:28:05,615
and then bring that all under peytonville, and then underground all the way to here.

265
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or we could go further. There would be no more surface water.

266
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the idea would be to catch it before it gets to peytonville.

267
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>> you've mentioned, I guess that some of this is still you're under diligence on.

268
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I guess what's the timeline you foresee in terms of transition ultimate solution.

269
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>> I would say we're two or 30 days.

270
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I see it the final the city being able to say, we're willing to do this because there is a immediate cost to

271
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the city because this is an opportunity to solve a problem.

272
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the other solve staff comments we dedicate right away right here,

273
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which is what south lake can do. We're just saying, look,

274
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we're willing to do that. We don't like that idea because then even our lots are devalued,

275
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but you're going to have to come in and fix this problem sooner or later.

276
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:10,640
we're saying if you guys can help match our pace on development with funds,

277
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we will do this at the same time. I think staff is not prepared to take that up the chain because that's not something,

278
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it's dollars that may or may not be budgeted. We're working with them to get the right number.

279
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we've said here's the ballpark number, and a little less than ballpark.

280
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this is a scientific number, and they're saying, well, let's take this down, let's find the right method.

281
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we're at two now, we're going to quickly probably adopt this method within

282
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a week and then less price this out. >> this can be something that if this moves forward,

283
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could before you go to a city council meeting, you could have squared away.

284
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>> I would love to have that. >> I'm almost asking I think that would almost be maybe a need

285
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so at that point in the process, it's not esoteric.

286
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I know it sounds like you're down the road, trying to figure out a solution, but there's something more firm.

287
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>> I think if you're telling me that I need to do it, I would tell you that I can make that staff has

288
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said they're available to make you to do it. >> yes. >> I say, let's do it.

289
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>> portion you're asking the city to work with you on in terms of reimbursement,

290
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is the light blue and everything that's on the east side? Are you looking for reimbursement for this entire run?

291
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>> this entire run. Because we're not causing any of

292
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this water what we're basically saying is we will do this during our project.

293
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any of the stuff we would normally do staff has been pretty clear on what they will or will not pay for or should or should not pay for,

294
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because there's other instances that have set the precedents. For instance, if we're going to bring bulldozers out,

295
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if we're going to bring all this stuff and set it up, the city's not going to double pay for that, which we would.

296
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they're basically saying, hey, take all the stuff that you would normally do if this problem didn't exist and just give me the net difference.

297
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that's what we expect to. >> all property is required to take

298
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water from their neighbors at some predetermined flow rate.

299
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are you determining now that you or your study is determining that you're getting

300
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more water than the required flow rate for undeveloped property?

301
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>> that I don't know. It's 240 or 240 cfs.

302
00:31:49,820 --> 00:31:53,375
>> I understand but when you buy property, it's going to have some amount of drainage is going to come across the site,

303
00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:02,405
and you're required as a land owner developer to pick that up and carry it to the next point downhill.

304
00:32:07,870 --> 00:32:07,870
unless the water is coming across the site at

305
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:12,080
a far greater rate than required or the it's allowed,

306
00:32:16,970 --> 00:32:16,970
I should say, I don't understand why the city would be paying for that.

307
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>> I don't know the answer to that. The options we have would just to allow the city to have that flood right away.

308
00:32:32,735 --> 00:32:32,735
what's happened with this property in 1999,

309
00:32:37,370 --> 00:32:40,520
the previous owner sold the city for $150 a strip here to fix this problem and it was never addressed.

310
00:32:46,460 --> 00:32:49,570
it's all documented. The owner that signed that art jane has passed away,

311
00:32:53,510 --> 00:32:55,490
but the documentation exists. I think the owners and he's not here.

312
00:32:57,620 --> 00:33:01,235
he's in colorado, but he'll be here. He can speak to all of that. I feel like in talking with him that the ownership of

313
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:06,320
this property has made that attempt with the city in the past to remedy this situation.

314
00:33:11,090 --> 00:33:13,475
as a developer, I'm inheriting this, and I would basically tell the owner that if I need to fix

315
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:17,120
this massive of a problem that the owner is going to pay for most of it.

316
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>> dennis, do you want to add any context here in terms of how the city's

317
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:29,360
viewing this in terms of both remedy and who's responsible for what.

318
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>> it's an identified drainage need. >> the city is discussing with them the opportunity to

319
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solve a drainage problem that's occurring in that peytonville area as part of this project.

320
00:33:53,515 --> 00:33:53,515
whether or not that's due to you're correct that

321
00:33:59,620 --> 00:34:02,200
a development has to handle what flows are coming onto their property and then they have to manage,

322
00:34:04,975 --> 00:34:04,975
whatever additional developed condition runoff that they're putting in place,

323
00:34:09,820 --> 00:34:09,820
but this is just an empirically identified problem that the city is

324
00:34:16,210 --> 00:34:16,210
looking at and is they're working with our staff on a potential solution.

325
00:34:24,130 --> 00:34:24,130
we're right at this point, working through,

326
00:34:28,210 --> 00:34:31,060
estimates on what that cost is and whether or not we can address that during their project timeline.

327
00:34:36,595 --> 00:34:39,940
>> there may be some potential ambiguity on what commitments were made by the city in the past or not.

328
00:34:43,435 --> 00:34:45,400
it comes down to maybe a negotiation in terms of just between the city and the developers,

329
00:34:50,910 --> 00:34:50,910
and ultimately city council or the developers on what cost will or won't be born.

330
00:34:57,210 --> 00:34:57,210
the setting maybe the cost issue aside, either way,

331
00:35:01,975 --> 00:35:05,350
it would have to be a solution that would be amenable to solving the problem regardless of who or how it's paid for,

332
00:35:08,860 --> 00:35:12,730
it has to be a solution that will solve the problem, right? >> yes. Certain. I think that's where I was going that maybe setting some of that

333
00:35:17,995 --> 00:35:17,995
aside because that'll be a city council focus in terms of who pays for what and staff.

334
00:35:23,980 --> 00:35:25,570
at least for this body, I think maybe the working assumption would be that before it goes to city council,

335
00:35:30,220 --> 00:35:32,170
that there is a plan in place, that staff is supportive of that will solve the problem.

336
00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:39,340
>> yes, we want to get there. Just doing the right thing,

337
00:35:41,065 --> 00:35:44,545
being the right this is the right way to solve this problem. >> for everybody involved in terms of there's probably multiple ways,

338
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:48,550
and there are some that are maybe more visually pleasing and some that are less.

339
00:35:53,530 --> 00:35:55,360
>> well, on this one, especially, the tree conservation, we're saving huge trees not using that easement.

340
00:35:59,485 --> 00:36:01,150
we're putting it under the road, which is going to be dug. If I lived up.

341
00:36:04,585 --> 00:36:07,705
>> you don't mind speaking to the microphone. That's how we'll get all this. >> you hear? All good.

342
00:36:09,565 --> 00:36:13,510
>> we made a promise to the city and the citizens that showed up to spend that we would address all the concerns,

343
00:36:16,885 --> 00:36:19,585
theirs and y'all's the best that we could. Tree canopy is a big one.

344
00:36:21,655 --> 00:36:24,550
if we take that easement down across that back side, the people living on post right now are going to lose tons of screening.

345
00:36:30,205 --> 00:36:33,370
like jerry said, we're going to devalue our lots, and we're not sticking to the the tree canopy ordinance is.

346
00:36:38,050 --> 00:36:41,785
to us, this killed two birds with 1 stone three birds with 1 stone, get ritten rid of the water,

347
00:36:43,660 --> 00:36:43,660
keeping the citizens happy and trying to save the sitting money.

348
00:36:48,270 --> 00:36:51,280
>> maybe because there's other things to talk about. Are there any other questions on drainage.

349
00:36:53,770 --> 00:36:57,130
>> I just had a quick question. Have you talked to the one property owner that this blue line is crossing that's off of your property?

350
00:37:00,205 --> 00:37:02,035
>> that's that's our it is. That's actually part of the current way that yes,

351
00:37:05,980 --> 00:37:08,455
it's part of this, but it's already applied lot. We have the ability to put anything within that lot in terms of creating an easement?

352
00:37:14,125 --> 00:37:14,125
that was another unique card that fell in our favor. Sure.

353
00:37:18,490 --> 00:37:18,490
>> anything else on maybe drainage before we touch on a few of the other items.

354
00:37:23,940 --> 00:37:23,940
I didn't know if you had a slide or if it was in the staff presentation, be a better one,

355
00:37:28,420 --> 00:37:28,420
but I had a question about what it would visually look like along peytonville,

356
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:32,920
because that is one of our more special and having it have more of a rural,

357
00:37:39,550 --> 00:37:42,640
having lots of landscaping trees and not some. We have I mean, there's sometimes we get clear cut and we get a huge stone wall or,

358
00:37:47,260 --> 00:37:50,470
you know, making it match what's there today. I know staff we don't necessarily have to look at it,

359
00:37:53,110 --> 00:37:56,635
but I guess staff had a presentation in our slide in the timer. >> I slide. This is more of what the fencing would look like.

360
00:38:00,460 --> 00:38:03,580
we want to this is conceptual, but, I mean, we want these rails like it is today right now, it's railroad ties.

361
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,145
we're going to put more of a lasting material down and keep it really the same post look that it has today.

362
00:38:14,190 --> 00:38:15,680
these are a little wider, but we want to try to keep it open like it is today.

363
00:38:18,775 --> 00:38:21,400
there are parts of peytonville when you drive down there, that are closed. There's big I'm not going to comment on the aesthetic.

364
00:38:24,660 --> 00:38:28,110
>> yes, that's we'd like to avoid that. I guess maybe further build out that rendering,

365
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:31,680
just to make sure it can really convey what you're trying to accomplish there.

366
00:38:37,260 --> 00:38:40,420
then the rest of the fencing around the perimeter of the site I'm assuming you're going to work with adjacent neighbors in

367
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:43,000
terms of a preference on what they might want around the rest of the boundaries.

368
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,280
>> I made a commitment to the neighbors that we could extend this fencing. When we went through spin,

369
00:38:53,140 --> 00:38:53,140
I don't know that that's a good solution with giving all the borders.

370
00:38:57,565 --> 00:38:57,565
I've committed to each one to do the right thing.

371
00:39:02,485 --> 00:39:02,485
some of the lots are different in terms of ones that are closer to the water.

372
00:39:06,850 --> 00:39:06,850
when we get into platting and stuff like that and we've already placed the pads,

373
00:39:11,845 --> 00:39:11,845
then we don't want to be we don't want to fence the perimeter backyards.

374
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:18,700
we want to create a three foot or five foot buffer for nature,

375
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,965
if we can and then use permeable fences. I think it's a neighbor of my neighbor discussion. Honestly.

376
00:39:31,230 --> 00:39:31,230
>> other people want to jump in questions.

377
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,170
well, we may have some other questions, comments. We'll have a public hearing first,

378
00:39:43,210 --> 00:39:45,685
we may call you back up if we need help. >> thank you.

379
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:48,720
>> as I stated before, I guess we'll go ahead and open the public hearing here shortly,

380
00:39:54,535 --> 00:39:58,030
I guess as we do remember, please. Maybe I'll just call everybody up one at a time.

381
00:40:00,730 --> 00:40:04,525
please up to 3 minutes, be cognizant of everyone else who's here. That's okay. We got a full agenda.

382
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,010
we actually have a signboard meeting after this. You want to stick around for that one. That one's always a fun one in town.

383
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:11,560
up to 3 minutes, please address any comments to us and we'll take it into account.

384
00:40:17,035 --> 00:40:20,800
I guess I'll go ahead and see whoever would like to come forward and speak first on this item now that we have the hearing open, go ahead.

385
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:24,400
when you come up, please state your name and address for the record.

386
00:40:29,970 --> 00:40:32,440
>> my name is patrick langston. I live, if I could use this mouse right here.

387
00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:36,100
yes. Perfect. This impacts me quite a bit.

388
00:40:40,735 --> 00:40:43,120
I think we just discussed 15 minutes ago or for 15 minutes about taking a problem that exists right here,

389
00:40:47,575 --> 00:40:50,260
and basically transporting it to my front yard, which I don't love.

390
00:40:52,375 --> 00:40:55,810
there are two sections of the higgins branch that I think need to be considered that I don't think we're thinking about.

391
00:41:00,205 --> 00:41:03,025
one is right here. Five of these lots are built right in the middle of this drainage,

392
00:41:07,495 --> 00:41:07,495
which is a parallel finger to the higgins branch that goes like this.

393
00:41:11,530 --> 00:41:14,545
then there's another branch that goes like this, both on either side of my home.

394
00:41:17,730 --> 00:41:21,430
if these homes are built here, and you have water runoff from

395
00:41:23,710 --> 00:41:23,710
the roofs from the sprinkler systems into this system right here,

396
00:41:28,465 --> 00:41:28,465
then that could create some flooding and issues from my house.

397
00:41:32,980 --> 00:41:32,980
we built a bridge across this drainage that had to go through city approval,

398
00:41:41,470 --> 00:41:45,265
corps of engineer approval, excuse me. When it does rain, the water does get pretty high,

399
00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:50,920
still goes under the bridge because we did all the right measurements. What I'm worried about is if

400
00:41:53,710 --> 00:41:56,410
there's a lot more water that goes into this area because I mean, this lot right here, 65% of it's in the drainage.

401
00:42:00,055 --> 00:42:03,460
if it adds a lot more water here, it's going to wash out my bridge, which is the only way I have access to my house.

402
00:42:06,310 --> 00:42:09,250
then you add that to we just talked about 205 cfs of water that

403
00:42:12,700 --> 00:42:16,600
exists right here that we're going to pipe into the other side of my house. That causes me a lot of concern.

404
00:42:19,150 --> 00:42:19,150
one way to fix that might be at least on this side.

405
00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:25,150
I'm not sure how you fix it when again, these homes are basically being built in the drainage.

406
00:42:27,970 --> 00:42:27,970
on this side, one way to fix it might be to extend that pipe further down my house.

407
00:42:33,535 --> 00:42:36,970
the asks house, which is right here on the other side of the river. Their neighbor, who I believe was also opposed to the development,

408
00:42:40,285 --> 00:42:43,630
who's just north of the asks who I don't know yet. There might be a way to extend that pipe further,

409
00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:47,755
but that's just more cost. I think letting the water out right here obviously,

410
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:55,585
I'm one home owner. I'm not a whole subdivision up there, but that would create some major flooding and issues for my house.

411
00:42:59,995 --> 00:43:02,245
I've been there for a while. The other thing that I'm concerned about is,

412
00:43:05,890 --> 00:43:08,935
even if we fix some of the issues here, with these five lots being located substantially within this drainage,

413
00:43:12,655 --> 00:43:12,655
I'm worried about construction debris flowing down this river,

414
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,285
this part of the higgins branch, and then also flowing down this way.

415
00:43:21,385 --> 00:43:21,385
I'd like some representation that the builders will clean that out.

416
00:43:25,915 --> 00:43:29,170
to be fair, I've talked to jerry about it. I've shared my concerns. I'm not trying to to get a gotcha moment here.

417
00:43:32,425 --> 00:43:36,265
I mean, kim and I are in communication. It is an issue for me. I'm know amount of time, but that.

418
00:43:38,110 --> 00:43:38,110
>> no. Thank you. We'll talk to staff after this just thoughts on.

419
00:43:42,940 --> 00:43:42,940
address you, we'll note that one down and get to it.

420
00:43:47,065 --> 00:43:47,065
thank you appreciate. Anyone like to speak next on this item?

421
00:43:51,625 --> 00:43:55,015
please come on up. State your name and address. Thank you. >> hello, counsel. My name is kristen lily,

422
00:43:57,820 --> 00:43:57,820
and I live even further downstream from patrick,

423
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,460
who I need to meet because we have very similar concerns. First off, I would like to thank jerry and the developer,

424
00:44:10,030 --> 00:44:13,165
for listening to what we said during this ben committee, making the modifications to the plans to avoid both the grass

425
00:44:18,265 --> 00:44:18,265
to the post neighborhood as well as to the wood creek, I guess.

426
00:44:24,805 --> 00:44:26,740
I don't remember exactly. I do like that they're paying a whole lot of attention to

427
00:44:30,250 --> 00:44:34,030
the water that is coming over the road because that is a problem. I would like to reiterate that redirecting all that water down into

428
00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:39,190
higgins branch is going to impact all the homes down higgins branch.

429
00:44:44,410 --> 00:44:44,410
more water faster, is going to build up at the next choke point.

430
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:52,765
whether that choke point is patrick's house, or it's four houses down and it's my house where,

431
00:44:55,720 --> 00:44:55,720
we are part of the federally protected flood way that is part of higgins branch.

432
00:45:01,135 --> 00:45:01,135
we need to understand the impacts of that water and deal with it.

433
00:45:05,995 --> 00:45:07,210
because it's not just us, it keeps going all the way down.it crosses dove,

434
00:45:10,690 --> 00:45:13,810
or there's also flooding problems. It goes into the next neighborhood, or there's also flooding problems.

435
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:19,195
we need to understand the full impact from the top to the bottom of all the developments that are going into this area.

436
00:45:23,830 --> 00:45:27,310
I believe the city has made some strides, but I believe the city needs to work harder to protect all of

437
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:29,920
the neighbors that exist down that blood way. Thank you.

438
00:45:34,660 --> 00:45:36,400
>> thank you. Appreciate it. Anyone would like to come up and speak next on this item.

439
00:45:40,060 --> 00:45:40,060
feel free to come on up. State your name and address if you don't mind, please.

440
00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:48,460
>> yes. I'm paul boman. I live at 13:25 right across the street from that entrance.

441
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:52,600
when they pointed out the let's see here.

442
00:45:57,670 --> 00:46:00,970
that's my drive right there. The drainage, a couple of things on my address.

443
00:46:04,675 --> 00:46:07,090
the see's been out to our property a few times. When you developed shady oaks,

444
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,595
over a decade ago, there's no retention pond on that. You remember the clopus farm is up on the hill,

445
00:46:14,875 --> 00:46:17,575
and all those houses on the hill. They put field dirt up there. All that water then came down.

446
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,225
it's on our property, it's on the burgess property, the long's property. All that water that you're receiving is coming originally from shady oaks.

447
00:46:26,245 --> 00:46:26,245
I've been this residence for 30 years in south lake for 35.

448
00:46:30,820 --> 00:46:30,820
my concern is I do appreciate what you try to try to do with the water.

449
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,830
it is a big issue just get it off the properties for sure, but obviously a concern for the neighbors,

450
00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:42,520
they're speaking just now. My selfish concern is that the entrance and exit for myself and my wife and children.

451
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:47,800
the entrance to the development is directly across from my driveway.

452
00:46:52,990 --> 00:46:52,990
I'll be competing with the neighborhood now versus just going off of leaving my house.

453
00:46:58,315 --> 00:47:01,465
peytonville became more congested. Now we're competing with the traffic along with entrance and

454
00:47:04,660 --> 00:47:04,660
exit of a neighborhood across the street. That's our concern.

455
00:47:09,010 --> 00:47:09,010
>> thank you very much. Anyone else like to come up and speak on this item.

456
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:15,565
while we have the public hearing open, see somebody else here. It this one as a minute.

457
00:47:19,690 --> 00:47:23,575
>> I probably ought to put it down to a minute, I think, mr. Chairman. Apologies. The former commissioner we're familiar with him.

458
00:47:26,845 --> 00:47:26,845
>> I was going to wear my supreme robe in purple just for you guys.

459
00:47:31,570 --> 00:47:33,850
by the way, congratulations on the award. Y'all for sure, deserve it.

460
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,165
I live right, somewhere around here. Let me just give you my perspective.

461
00:47:42,505 --> 00:47:45,910
I'm for the project. I think it's a good deal. This is going to be developed. It's awesome property. I tried to buy it,

462
00:47:48,265 --> 00:47:51,145
but I never could get in contact with the dude. >> I'm right there. Peytonville traffic.

463
00:47:54,025 --> 00:47:56,305
not a problem. My experience. There is a creek or

464
00:47:59,290 --> 00:47:59,290
a dry creek bed that I like to throw quite a bit of my trees limbs into.

465
00:48:06,205 --> 00:48:09,310
I think it flows this way. I could be wrong, but I think it flows this way.

466
00:48:11,935 --> 00:48:11,935
anyways, I'm like, privy to what it looks like coming off of here,

467
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:17,800
and I have seen it once in ten years,

468
00:48:25,885 --> 00:48:25,885
even get closer to my back yard.

469
00:48:31,230 --> 00:48:31,230
that's a data point. I don't think when it comes

470
00:48:35,650 --> 00:48:35,650
to at least down line or this is up line,

471
00:48:41,035 --> 00:48:43,480
I recall it going this way. It might go this way, but I do recall it going this way.

472
00:48:46,495 --> 00:48:49,600
if that's true or unless it reverses sometimes, which could be true as well.

473
00:48:51,810 --> 00:48:55,510
I don't see a problem, at least right here. I don't know about right here.

474
00:48:57,900 --> 00:48:57,900
I do know about right here. One my perspective. Important.

475
00:49:03,355 --> 00:49:06,295
>> thank you very much for me. Who would like to come forward and speak next on this item?

476
00:49:12,810 --> 00:49:16,795
going once. There you go. Go ahead. Say once I closed it,

477
00:49:19,090 --> 00:49:22,330
dennis tells me I cannot reopen it again for another couple of weeks. Please go ahead and come on up and state your name and address.

478
00:49:27,510 --> 00:49:27,510
>> I'm claire alford, and I live at 12:13 wood creek lane.

479
00:49:32,755 --> 00:49:32,755
I am in this property right here.

480
00:49:36,865 --> 00:49:36,865
I appreciate everything that they've had to say about fencing and buffering.

481
00:49:41,875 --> 00:49:41,875
this creek that was just spoken about does run straight there.

482
00:49:47,710 --> 00:49:50,980
it is all coming through cross timber hills, going straight to mr. James' property.

483
00:49:53,350 --> 00:49:57,160
it goes into his retention pond. Thank you. >> thank you very much. Coming out.

484
00:49:59,455 --> 00:50:01,990
anyone else? Yes, ma'am. Go ahead. >> sorry. I've lived there for 38 years.

485
00:50:04,450 --> 00:50:07,090
>> duly noted for the record. We got it. Anyone else want to come forward and speak on this item

486
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,280
before we close the public hearing? Name and address, please, sir.

487
00:50:18,780 --> 00:50:21,970
>> yes, I'm ryan buzzard. Address is 1,500 post oak trail.

488
00:50:24,985 --> 00:50:24,985
I am also one of these people that backyards go,

489
00:50:29,260 --> 00:50:29,260
I think four houses down north of the creek.

490
00:50:34,735 --> 00:50:36,955
I just wanted to say that, I've had to save that house three times this summer from

491
00:50:40,060 --> 00:50:43,945
flooding from previous development plans. I can pretty much guarantee you if there's

492
00:50:46,450 --> 00:50:46,450
any more water being pushed through there, it will be flooded.

493
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:53,155
this house has been here for 40 years. Lived there for 30 years.

494
00:50:55,150 --> 00:50:57,670
this will wipe that house out. That's all. Thank you.

495
00:51:00,250 --> 00:51:03,940
>>thank you very much. Anyone else going to come forward and speak on this item before we close the public hearing?

496
00:51:07,975 --> 00:51:07,975
only once. Here we go. We got another taker.

497
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,985
>> good evening. My name is anne marie hotkinson. I live at 1201 cypress creek circle,

498
00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:24,700
which is immediately adjacent to the entrance of the proposed development.

499
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,800
I just would like to reiterate what my neighbors have said regarding the drainage and the flooding issues, they're real.

500
00:51:36,670 --> 00:51:39,850
we have a new construction home that we spent hours and hours making sure we'd have correct drainage,

501
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:44,560
and that is not what we ended up with post new construction.

502
00:51:48,850 --> 00:51:48,850
everything took twice as long and was twice as expensive,

503
00:51:52,930 --> 00:51:55,330
and we're still have the flooding issues. If you could please consider that when making your decisions,

504
00:51:58,870 --> 00:52:00,880
there's definitely a problem. >> thank you very much. Anyone else to come forward on this item?

505
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:05,920
we have another taker [noise]

506
00:52:14,770 --> 00:52:16,315
>> evening. My name is bruce mcgee. I'm at 1400 post oak trail.

507
00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:18,790
I am the second house past where the water is going in.

508
00:52:24,115 --> 00:52:27,250
I just want to correct something that was said, just to make sure we're all clear.

509
00:52:28,855 --> 00:52:32,455
that water flows that direction all the time. I think on this side of the property,

510
00:52:34,450 --> 00:52:37,990
it might flow back the other way because there's a bit of a hill there, but just this summer as ryan buzzy spoke, the water flows.

511
00:52:44,350 --> 00:52:46,780
I just want to make sure that we understand the water does flow that way and if there's more and more rain.

512
00:52:49,075 --> 00:52:51,190
I don't know what the solution is. I think jerry's proposal is a good one,

513
00:52:53,140 --> 00:52:53,140
but what we're doing is just moving the water and putting it in the back of our houses.

514
00:52:59,395 --> 00:53:02,860
if the pipe would to be extended, I think that might be a great idea, but [noise] we can ask everybody in

515
00:53:04,810 --> 00:53:07,405
this room how many people have been affected by water. Again, it's almost an intractable problem,

516
00:53:09,970 --> 00:53:13,855
but it does need to be recognized and mitigated. But again, the water does flow to the north pretty much every single time.

517
00:53:18,355 --> 00:53:20,500
I just wanted to make sure that we were clear on that. >> thank you very much. Anyone else want to come forward and comment on this item?

518
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:25,800
going once, twice.

519
00:53:30,060 --> 00:53:32,470
we're going to close the public hearing. Thank you, everybody, for coming out this evening.

520
00:53:34,690 --> 00:53:38,480
it's always helpful feedback to hear from the residents. Dennis not to put you on the spot [laughter]

521
00:53:44,190 --> 00:53:44,190
I guess just focusing on the area that where the water,

522
00:53:49,820 --> 00:53:49,820
under the theoretical plan we talked about would be expelled.

523
00:53:54,865 --> 00:53:54,865
I guess this seems like it's an issue that's obviously larger than this site.

524
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:00,880
that's pre existing sounds from the public comment I guess.

525
00:54:07,210 --> 00:54:07,210
is there anything from a city or staff level that maybe more macro in terms of,

526
00:54:13,225 --> 00:54:13,225
to the point of not necessarily just dumping it right at the edge of the site,

527
00:54:17,755 --> 00:54:17,755
but carrying it somewhere else that the city could envision or investigate

528
00:54:22,990 --> 00:54:22,990
or I know you probably don't have the certain precise answer right now,

529
00:54:28,750 --> 00:54:31,540
but I'm sure you've maybe thought about it a little bit or? >> yeah. I certainly something that our engineers can investigate and

530
00:54:37,315 --> 00:54:37,315
where it's likely that most of that water is going that direction as it is right now.

531
00:54:45,085 --> 00:54:45,085
this would alleviate some of the problems from the pentoville avenue,

532
00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:52,240
and as far as getting to that drainage easement there.

533
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:58,120
but however it's got to be designed such that it does not create

534
00:55:04,690 --> 00:55:04,690
an additional adverse condition does not exacerbate the problem itself,

535
00:55:12,745 --> 00:55:14,815
it should solve the problem. Whether or not there's other solutions and all of those are have been looked at yet,

536
00:55:20,140 --> 00:55:20,140
that is something our staff can pursue.

537
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:26,620
>> [inaudible] >> as this alternatives forward. >> maybe maybe as part of that and I'm certainly not a drainage person,

538
00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:33,445
but as part of that, ensuring that those drainage areas,

539
00:55:36,460 --> 00:55:36,460
detention areas on site are large enough that they can handle

540
00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:40,630
the flow and basically pace it out at an appropriate rate.

541
00:55:46,015 --> 00:55:49,720
I guess I suppose we'd have to rely on engineers for that, but is that part of the solution here?

542
00:55:52,435 --> 00:55:52,435
part of it that trying to put the water somewhere that cause more problems part of it.

543
00:55:56,770 --> 00:55:56,770
>> as far as what they're cooperating with the city to handle,

544
00:56:00,820 --> 00:56:00,820
this is a drainage project that the city has had in their plan,

545
00:56:05,485 --> 00:56:05,485
and development of this property presented an opportunity to

546
00:56:11,020 --> 00:56:14,440
probably at least look at the possibility of moving that up and getting it tackled sooner.

547
00:56:20,550 --> 00:56:24,115
all the engineering and the impacts of this design would need to be looked at as part of that project.

548
00:56:28,525 --> 00:56:28,525
if there's better solutions than what's being discussed right now,

549
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,840
that would be sought. As far as the development of this project,

550
00:56:40,285 --> 00:56:43,555
they're required to handle their developed condition, the detention structure they're putting in place as part of

551
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:48,400
their development is being engineered to do that.

552
00:56:56,010 --> 00:56:58,330
>> I guess if I'm understanding you right, it sounds like the city is already allocating in future budgets funds to deal with

553
00:57:04,450 --> 00:57:07,450
this issue and this application could pull those forward to help address it sooner than later.

554
00:57:12,415 --> 00:57:14,650
>> that that's what we're looking at, and the developer is working with us on those cost estimates to see if

555
00:57:19,870 --> 00:57:23,005
that's whether the timing of our projects and our funding of that can meet at the same time.

556
00:57:28,060 --> 00:57:31,780
>> maybe I'll call the applicant back up if you don't mind, I guess [noise] can you maybe just high level again,

557
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,965
talk through the math was something. What was the percentages your plans are apart right now?

558
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,690
I guess you've got a plan that can handle. >> the area 2671.

559
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:46,870
that's holding all of our water that we would create,

560
00:57:51,070 --> 00:57:51,070
so bringing us to zero plus around 16%, we want to get it to 20.

561
00:57:56,590 --> 00:57:58,150
we can do that pretty easily. That's with our retention pond being at 27% of the open space.

562
00:58:02,305 --> 00:58:05,695
we asked for 38 at this point from you guys, because we just need to understand, how?

563
00:58:08,785 --> 00:58:11,515
what's the final solve from pentoville? If part of that is expanding the size of the pond

564
00:58:14,650 --> 00:58:17,800
to take even more than we just wanted to have it. I think I put in my application not to exceed 38%,

565
00:58:21,460 --> 00:58:21,460
but current state as proposes 27.1 for the retention pond itself.

566
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:30,850
is there any questions on that because I haven't, go ahead. >> I want to clarify when you say 38%,

567
00:58:33,310 --> 00:58:36,610
you're talking about getting the detention ponds big enough to take up to 38% of the flow?

568
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,320
>> no, sir. I'm saying 38% of the open space, which was the requirement on pond.

569
00:58:46,765 --> 00:58:49,885
retention ponds cannot exceed 25%. I'm just saying it would get to 38% of the open space.

570
00:58:53,770 --> 00:58:55,270
>> if you did that, would that handle the flow?

571
00:58:57,940 --> 00:59:00,115
>> that's a loaded question at this point. I cannot answer when you say flow.

572
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,480
are you talking about the pentoville additional flow? >> I'm talking about the water that you've got to deal with here, the flow of water.

573
00:59:08,575 --> 00:59:11,320
>> the water that we have to deal with on our property, as written, it's already handled in this.

574
00:59:14,650 --> 00:59:14,650
what we're dealing with is the opposite side of pentoville water.

575
00:59:19,300 --> 00:59:21,730
that would not be handled in the 27%. I'm not sure it would be handled even in 38%.

576
00:59:25,105 --> 00:59:25,105
but we have the ability to pipe some of it or bring some of it and retain some of it.

577
00:59:31,630 --> 00:59:35,440
that's what we're working with the city on. What's the most prudent way [overlapping]

578
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,800
>> I'm trying to think on the path forward here. I think I saw the vic here scribbling.

579
00:59:44,395 --> 00:59:44,395
I think it's something that [noise] before it's presented to city council, I guess,

580
00:59:48,775 --> 00:59:50,410
our recommendation would be that that portion of the plan is worked out to the city [inaudible]

581
00:59:56,620 --> 01:00:00,480
>> do you have any map north of here a little bit? Again, I guess what I'm saying,

582
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:04,870
we took this very seriously. I hope you guys understand that. We probably walked [overlapping]

583
01:00:08,020 --> 01:00:09,970
>> I know you're trying [overlapping] >> we walked almost a mile.

584
01:00:13,060 --> 01:00:15,700
I'm going to admit it in a recorded format. I trespassed [laughter] down

585
01:00:18,730 --> 01:00:18,730
the higgins branch just to see because the neighbors were so passionate.

586
01:00:23,455 --> 01:00:23,455
up here, I've got videos of people's homes,

587
01:00:28,090 --> 01:00:30,400
these two, and maybe this one, with live floodwater since 2020 coming through their house.

588
01:00:34,570 --> 01:00:34,570
they're fired up, and I would be too if that was my house.

589
01:00:38,710 --> 01:00:38,710
we did walk down here just to try to get our heads wrapped around the whole situation.

590
01:00:44,245 --> 01:00:46,690
there's lots of stuff. It's all private land. I was emboldened and I said, well,

591
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:49,120
why don't we just solve this cause there's not one problem.

592
01:00:53,530 --> 01:00:55,405
part of the problem is the drainage. If you kink a hose and you put water in it,

593
01:00:57,940 --> 01:01:01,255
it's going to spit back out. That's what's happening down higgins, all the way to dove and past that. It's kinked.

594
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:03,640
there's large limbs, there's trees. I could take pictures.

595
01:01:07,690 --> 01:01:10,640
I'm incriminating my fellow citizen, so I'm not going to do that. But what is the solve? I went to sandy.

596
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:14,835
I went to dennis, and I'm like, is it city can bring wood shippers out here and do what it's all private land?

597
01:01:18,450 --> 01:01:21,690
they own this land. They're obligated to maintain it. It's not a city cost.

598
01:01:23,115 --> 01:01:25,155
you just get caught in. They're probably neighbors that do

599
01:01:27,225 --> 01:01:29,880
maintain the drainage and there's neighbors that don't. That is a contributing factor because if the water has nowhere to go downstream,

600
01:01:34,735 --> 01:01:35,950
it's going to back up, and the perception is it's flooding from where the water is coming from.

601
01:01:38,965 --> 01:01:42,655
that's not in fact the case. It's flooding because the water has no place to go, or a combination of both.

602
01:01:44,290 --> 01:01:44,290
[noise] spent a lot of time on this topic.

603
01:01:49,495 --> 01:01:52,765
I don't know what the perfect answer is, but it's going to be. >> we'll do our best to work something through.

604
01:01:55,450 --> 01:01:58,510
I guess, david, you want to [inaudible] >> has the city ever done a comprehensive drainage study of

605
01:02:03,670 --> 01:02:06,655
this whole part of the city to deal with all of these issues or at least and know what all of these issues are?

606
01:02:10,540 --> 01:02:10,540
>> the city has worked on a study of that magnitude.

607
01:02:17,490 --> 01:02:17,490
>> I'm assuming that's what you're utilizing to try to work through this. Is that?

608
01:02:22,375 --> 01:02:26,140
>> the study that we reviewed with my engineering team and the city provided that was paid for by the city by a third party was very comprehensive?

609
01:02:30,565 --> 01:02:32,125
not just this area, but connecting areas. Very comprehensive.

610
01:02:35,170 --> 01:02:39,010
we're taking the data from that study, and that's what we're working from.

611
01:02:40,855 --> 01:02:44,320
>> I guess dennis is an example. This is the topic we're talking about. I guess that this slide shows

612
01:02:47,335 --> 01:02:51,070
the house that's just there to the on the northwestern side of the site. I guess that as an example,

613
01:02:52,750 --> 01:02:52,750
that's where one idea could be evaluated in terms of further extending

614
01:02:57,310 --> 01:02:57,310
the drainage pipe past that, is that [overlapping]

615
01:03:03,430 --> 01:03:05,020
>> I don't know if I'm stealing dennis' mouse, but we're talking about going up here.

616
01:03:08,620 --> 01:03:08,620
because all the water gets in right down this drain here right now.

617
01:03:13,060 --> 01:03:15,790
the water that starts here comes across, and it ends up down here.

618
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,410
I think I'm [overlapping] >> again, talk in the microphone,

619
01:03:21,925 --> 01:03:23,170
please. That's okay. Yes. >> you'll even added a pipe going down across post,

620
01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:26,470
draining into higgins. The city did.

621
01:03:30,690 --> 01:03:30,690
>> but basically, that water that is created here goes into higgins here.

622
01:03:37,825 --> 01:03:40,960
I think what I'm speaking for the neighbors, I don't want to, but what they're basically saying is instead of leaving it open flow here.

623
01:03:45,685 --> 01:03:48,670
could we take it closer to where that's originating from? >> look, I know we're not all drainage experts up here tonight,

624
01:03:51,730 --> 01:03:55,210
so we're probably not going to solve it, but I think that's the ideas. It sounds like the residents and developer and the city I want to

625
01:03:59,770 --> 01:03:59,770
be thought through just to see if there's a way to make it better once a pal.

626
01:04:04,420 --> 01:04:06,130
if you don't mind, can you go back to the previous slide we had on that showed the site plan?

627
01:04:09,595 --> 01:04:09,595
I just wanted to flush out one of the questions that.

628
01:04:16,170 --> 01:04:18,640
there you go. This here. The far western side of the site,

629
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,535
I guess that was referenced in one of the resident comments, I guess, is it fair to assume,

630
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,425
I guess you can see that crooked line on the back half of those western sites, that area be left alone, so [overlapping] to speak?

631
01:04:32,470 --> 01:04:33,910
>> yes. We have [overlapping] that. >> there can be flow, there won't be building pads, there won't be.

632
01:04:36,910 --> 01:04:40,240
>> this is a flow adjustment, this dotted line. This line here is the estimate of the 200 year flood plain.

633
01:04:45,390 --> 01:04:45,390
typically during platte right you go over just where we're going to put the pads.

634
01:04:52,165 --> 01:04:55,450
it's our intention, and I talked to ryan about this. We just haven't mr. Langford,

635
01:04:57,415 --> 01:04:59,500
the gentleman that lives here. We haven't had it's not part.

636
01:05:01,750 --> 01:05:03,925
we have had plenty to do up until this point, but our intention was to take all of the dirt that

637
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,570
we're taken on the front and lift these pads up. We've got to do calculations to see how much of

638
01:05:13,645 --> 01:05:17,170
the homes themselves can drain forward and into the retention pond, which we have capacity for.

639
01:05:19,495 --> 01:05:23,260
but we don't see these generating a ton of flow back. >> well that maybe another homework item for you.

640
01:05:25,870 --> 01:05:28,060
I guess I'd like for you to get with that resident just to the north there and show them what that, [overlapping]

641
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:35,020
>> we have plans to do that. >> that area will look like that there won't be anything that will be adversely affecting it from the way it is today,

642
01:05:37,900 --> 01:05:39,040
which sounds like the concern. >> it's it's a biggest concern to us as it is to him.

643
01:05:41,980 --> 01:05:44,920
I know it's one person, but we have his name email, and we're going to zoom with him with our engineers.

644
01:05:47,275 --> 01:05:49,420
>> when we get to calc we'll. >> add that to your homework list.

645
01:05:51,595 --> 01:05:54,280
then maybe lastly, just really quickly, the entrance, obviously,

646
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:57,940
the property needs to be afforded an entrance. I guess staff, I'm assuming

647
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,880
the preferred entrance for the site is directly across from the driveway on the other side of penton bill,

648
01:06:06,700 --> 01:06:09,520
just to line up access point, so there's no la from a safety standpoint.

649
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:15,300
is that the thought. >> certainly, where development of

650
01:06:19,510 --> 01:06:19,510
an adjoining property aligns with another home site or driveway or preferences to try to

651
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:25,480
locate those intersections where they don't negatively impact

652
01:06:29,695 --> 01:06:29,695
the existing homesite or traffic conflict with the driveway.

653
01:06:35,710 --> 01:06:39,460
if they managed to [overlapping] >> [inaudible] which way everybody's turning. >> if they've managed to do that rather

654
01:06:41,410 --> 01:06:44,500
closely as far as alignment of those center lines, that would certainly be the desired for configuration.

655
01:06:49,255 --> 01:06:53,070
>> any other questions? We need you again, we'll let you know.

656
01:06:56,305 --> 01:06:59,050
we go ahead and deliberate a little bit. I'm trying to think through the most effectively

657
01:07:03,610 --> 01:07:03,610
to codify what we're talking about in terms of prior to city council meeting,

658
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:07,840
having it the drainage situation vetted out by

659
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:13,360
staff to a level of satisfaction that they're content with,

660
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:19,360
I guess, relative to the detention area, the cost.

661
01:07:27,570 --> 01:07:29,815
>> [inaudible] >> I want you to get your mic. >> this is too big of an issue to take to council and have them try to deal with it.

662
01:07:36,355 --> 01:07:36,355
I think this needs to be dealt with the engineers and staff to come up with.

663
01:07:41,545 --> 01:07:42,595
>> prior to council. >> prior to us approving it.

664
01:07:45,700 --> 01:07:45,700
it needs to be dealt with by the engineers by the developer and by

665
01:07:50,770 --> 01:07:50,770
the city so that we know what a comprehensive plan is to fix this.

666
01:07:56,500 --> 01:07:59,440
then it can come to us and once it comes to us, then we could bless it and it goes to the city and

667
01:08:01,750 --> 01:08:01,750
the city council can deal with it very efficiently at that point in time.

668
01:08:07,270 --> 01:08:10,165
this is a very complex issue. >> other thoughts?

669
01:08:11,950 --> 01:08:15,130
>> I had a question. I don't have quite the tenure as you gentlemen, but one of the residents mentioned that this is

670
01:08:17,500 --> 01:08:21,220
a federally protected floodway and I was curious how that affects this from an engineering perspective and what we need to do as a city

671
01:08:24,130 --> 01:08:27,790
to make sure that we're in compliance with that. >> dennis is a federal designation.

672
01:08:30,655 --> 01:08:30,655
does that inhibit us from being able to address any of this?

673
01:08:36,580 --> 01:08:36,580
>> to conduct any work in those protected streams,

674
01:08:43,655 --> 01:08:47,405
they would have to have proper federal permits. From our perspective, if there's construction or development within a floodplain,

675
01:08:56,270 --> 01:09:00,140
we require that a floodplain development permit be submitted, which that does go through army corps of engineers and through our staff as well.

676
01:09:08,440 --> 01:09:08,440
not aware of any particular issue raised as a project.

677
01:09:15,575 --> 01:09:17,675
>> with that res bridge if you get there I guess. >> yes. That would all have to be developed or dealt with

678
01:09:22,625 --> 01:09:22,625
during the developments construction plan review and submittal,

679
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:31,250
and permits wouldn't be released until all of those things had been appropriately addressed.

680
01:09:37,540 --> 01:09:41,350
>> any other thoughts. >> well, I mean, I agree with david on that part that I mean,

681
01:09:45,245 --> 01:09:48,440
just this drainage issue by itself in here, takes more time that we could have all night long if we

682
01:09:51,410 --> 01:09:54,545
sit here and talked about it and without any real numbers. I don't know how we can make an informed decision about it,

683
01:09:58,730 --> 01:09:58,730
we certainly can't just dump the water down on the neighbors

684
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:04,730
down the street just because it's not running through this piece of property anymore, you just shifted it.

685
01:10:08,225 --> 01:10:08,225
I live right off this creek as well.

686
01:10:12,815 --> 01:10:12,815
I'm familiar with how water flows through here and how the flooding situation is.

687
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:22,715
it gets pretty severe from time to time. And down by dove road, even if higgins creek is not restricted anyway,

688
01:10:26,825 --> 01:10:26,825
there's been many times when everything down by dove road is practically underwater,

689
01:10:31,055 --> 01:10:31,055
and you're just feeding more water directly into it quicker.

690
01:10:36,170 --> 01:10:39,590
I can see this presumably could be, you're closing dove down by flooding it. I don't know.

691
01:10:44,750 --> 01:10:44,750
I think I agree that this needs a lot more engineering study.

692
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:51,760
but it would be a very bad thing to just put, just go ahead, like we said,

693
01:10:59,270 --> 01:11:02,690
just scalp the back side of these lots and give an easement through there because that's going to destroy

694
01:11:04,340 --> 01:11:04,340
the property values and it's ultimately not going to solve the problem.

695
01:11:09,310 --> 01:11:12,020
there's no good answer right now. >> well, I guess my opinion on this,

696
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:17,120
I guess my concern I agree with you all. But my concern is if the property owner, the developer,

697
01:11:19,430 --> 01:11:22,460
or the applicant is retaining or figuring out how to dispose of the water that they have on their property and that's what they're required to do.

698
01:11:25,685 --> 01:11:28,325
can we delay their development? While we fix a problem that exists outside of their responsibility.

699
01:11:34,535 --> 01:11:37,880
that's my only concern. I agree in a perfect world, we would solve this whole thing.

700
01:11:39,500 --> 01:11:43,070
if they've met the requirements that they're required as a developer on their property with the water that is being displaced by their development,

701
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:48,080
can we hold them up to fix a different problem?

702
01:11:54,370 --> 01:11:57,560
>> well, I think the comment was made earlier. You guys are probably 30 days away

703
01:11:59,930 --> 01:11:59,930
from really knowing if you can do what you've presented tonight anyway.

704
01:12:04,715 --> 01:12:08,360
I will say this is unusual in that. 99% of the comments tonight have been

705
01:12:11,225 --> 01:12:11,225
about one issue as opposed to the lots aren't big enough.

706
01:12:16,580 --> 01:12:19,085
the entrance looks terrible. You guys are trying to run south.

707
01:12:21,035 --> 01:12:22,310
I mean, you know what I'm saying? This is a very different conversation than we normally have, which is nice.

708
01:12:26,765 --> 01:12:29,810
I tend to agree. I don't think we're there yet. I mean, I don't even know if I make a motion,

709
01:12:33,110 --> 01:12:35,135
what am I going to say, hey, go do some more studies and figure something out before you go to counsel.

710
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:39,080
I mean, I think we need to know where you're at on that 30 day thing,

711
01:12:43,430 --> 01:12:46,595
what you've come up with, what the impacts are going to be, what the pond is going to hold versus what it's not going to hold,

712
01:12:50,330 --> 01:12:53,290
if the 38 is the right number. I mean, I think you're headed in the right direction.

713
01:12:56,870 --> 01:12:59,450
but I don't know what we're sending to counsel, I guess is what I'm getting at.

714
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:01,280
>> maybe what I would say is I guess it's encouraging,

715
01:13:05,780 --> 01:13:08,270
and it sounds like, I guess in the next few weeks, it sounds like you'll have a better solution.

716
01:13:11,950 --> 01:13:15,230
backed up in conjunction with the city, which is also viewing this in a more comprehensive manner outside of

717
01:13:19,370 --> 01:13:19,370
this site and has some funds allocated towards trying to deal with this.

718
01:13:26,170 --> 01:13:26,170
king and it sounds like there's progress being made towards being

719
01:13:30,410 --> 01:13:33,980
able to more definitively state what the outcome will look like, that would give us a better idea on what we're voting on to pass along or not.

720
01:13:39,185 --> 01:13:40,970
so I think some more time. Would be helpful, but I guess I personally might agree at bit with commissioner pailin,

721
01:13:45,770 --> 01:13:47,480
that I think we just need to be careful to bar, we hold this site too given it's already an issue today.

722
01:13:51,290 --> 01:13:51,290
I mean, we definitely need to hopefully leave the situation in a better position,

723
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:57,260
not a worse, but I don't know if we can leave it in a perfect position and rob them of the ability to develop their site.

724
01:14:02,830 --> 01:14:06,080
I think there's a better solution out there. I just want to give it a little more time and then let's just

725
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:12,380
evaluate it and see where staff lands up. Dennis, I guess, does that sound reasonable from a staff standpoint?

726
01:14:19,690 --> 01:14:19,690
>> I mean, there is because of separation from pen z's recommendation.

727
01:14:27,305 --> 01:14:29,480
the next council meeting this would go to, there is time to further address their ability to incorporate the city's project,

728
01:14:37,655 --> 01:14:40,925
which I think was mentioned is different from anything involving their development of this property.

729
01:14:45,110 --> 01:14:45,110
I mean, the conditions with regard to the drainage issue we're discussing,

730
01:14:51,170 --> 01:14:54,380
the options were for them to provide an easement, a drainage easement large enough to cover the runoff that's coming off patonvill

731
01:14:59,810 --> 01:14:59,810
through their lots one through five to get into the higgins branch.

732
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:06,560
the alternative to that was to work with the city on enlarging the culrit that crosses

733
01:15:15,950 --> 01:15:15,950
patonvill and putting that into a storm system

734
01:15:21,860 --> 01:15:21,860
within their project to free up the impact of that drainage easement across those lots.

735
01:15:28,265 --> 01:15:28,265
that's the direction the applicants taking is they're

736
01:15:33,260 --> 01:15:33,260
doing their due diligence in working with us to see if that's a possibility.

737
01:15:40,730 --> 01:15:44,510
the alternate is at least provide the drainage easement necessary through those impacted lots to carry that flow.

738
01:15:50,585 --> 01:15:53,750
>> well, I guess it sounds like I'm hearing you right. There's somewhat hesitancy up here tonight to support it as is as presented.

739
01:15:58,955 --> 01:15:58,955
preference to give it more time before making a recommendation.

740
01:16:05,210 --> 01:16:08,255
we can talk to the applicant about that in a second. But assuming that ends up being the case,

741
01:16:11,900 --> 01:16:14,150
I think the homework assignments are for the applicant to work on the detention size on site,

742
01:16:17,765 --> 01:16:17,765
with it coming closer to 38 versus 21% I'm hearing all that and understanding it, right,

743
01:16:24,410 --> 01:16:27,635
and the city to look at it more comprehensively and see, are there options to the north in terms of where to let this water out or not.

744
01:16:34,430 --> 01:16:36,710
I think that would be the homework assignments and really quickly because I just don't want to take it for granted.

745
01:16:39,575 --> 01:16:41,060
I guess setting drainage aside, were there any other concerns that the applicant needs to work on?

746
01:16:44,990 --> 01:16:47,330
I think we talked about fencing and they seem to give the right answer in the front door and other things.

747
01:16:50,210 --> 01:16:53,110
I mean, anything else. Maybe the applicant doesn't mind coming back up here real quick.

748
01:16:58,870 --> 01:17:00,950
you're right. I guess only the applicant can request to table something.

749
01:17:04,295 --> 01:17:07,670
I mean, if you want us to take a vote on it this evening, we can. I don't know that it'll be favorable,

750
01:17:08,900 --> 01:17:11,705
but we can take a vote, or you can request to table it and try to

751
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:14,720
work a little bit more comprehensively on a solution.

752
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:21,120
from my our perspective,

753
01:17:25,330 --> 01:17:28,225
we had comments from staff and we could have just done that. Hey, we'll give you the 30 feet and the problem exists.

754
01:17:32,715 --> 01:17:34,445
I feel like time wise, I'm being penalized for doing the right thing in terms of council very equipped.

755
01:17:41,270 --> 01:17:42,740
there's two council meetings. Staff is working with us as diligently as we can.

756
01:17:48,875 --> 01:17:48,875
what I would ask the p&z to consider is really,

757
01:17:53,780 --> 01:17:55,745
I don't think there's any other issues. We've spent time doing this,

758
01:17:58,700 --> 01:17:58,700
and there beyond what your own staff and the engineering team comes up with.

759
01:18:05,110 --> 01:18:08,155
there are no other alternatives. There's two. Which is to go back to the original,

760
01:18:09,850 --> 01:18:13,185
which is give you guys the easement or less solve the problem. There is going to be stuff like,

761
01:18:15,290 --> 01:18:17,315
could we take the drain further down, just like the three neighbors got up and talk to.

762
01:18:20,030 --> 01:18:22,475
but I don't know that that should cost us eight weeks in this process to go back through p and

763
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:28,565
z. I'm just candidly because we've worked a lot of time and we spent a lot of money to get where we are.

764
01:18:31,955 --> 01:18:35,150
I don't think we're skipping anything because counsel is going to be though and your staff is going to be though and whatever the solution is.

765
01:18:39,440 --> 01:18:43,430
I listened to the citizens and did want to roll over, and I wanted to do the right thing.

766
01:18:45,500 --> 01:18:45,500
I think the right thing is close, but honestly,

767
01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:50,390
I don't see the point in stopping back through p& z when counsel and

768
01:18:54,620 --> 01:18:54,620
staff are going to be as drilled and zoned in on this stuff as possible.

769
01:18:59,630 --> 01:19:02,900
it's no knock on you guys. It's just the time and it takes. >> I don't want to re litigate it if that's okay.

770
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:07,625
we on that for an hour and a half. I understand basically the quick question is,

771
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:13,055
if you'd like for us to take a vote this evening, we can. However the boat goes, it'll pass along to

772
01:19:15,110 --> 01:19:18,170
council and it'll either be favorable unfavorable, there'll be reasons why call.

773
01:19:20,645 --> 01:19:23,255
I would prefer to ask for a vote or we can ask for a t. >> I would prefer to you vote.

774
01:19:25,070 --> 01:19:28,490
and I respectfully do that and thanks for your time. >> thank you. With that, I mean,

775
01:19:33,290 --> 01:19:33,290
I guess we can entertain a motion that either is supportive with caveats or a denial,

776
01:19:40,325 --> 01:19:42,440
and we can just vote accordingly. I'll stare at the vice chair for well,

777
01:19:51,050 --> 01:19:53,570
I can tap the answer by you a little time if you want, but I don't have any good jokes.

778
01:19:56,645 --> 01:19:59,975
show everybody fancy coins here. >> why don't we just present it as for or against as it's presented.

779
01:20:05,705 --> 01:20:05,705
I mean, there's no reason to go [inaudible].

780
01:20:09,740 --> 01:20:13,010
>> that's what I'm saying if you want to do a motion to deny, we can do a motion to deny to.

781
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:17,765
>> see you to approve? It doesn't matter either way. I mean, I don't how to vote both way.

782
01:20:19,460 --> 01:20:22,535
>> either way and we can do it both ways and what I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me to make a long what I'm saying.

783
01:20:26,090 --> 01:20:28,550
I just saying we need a motion. >> well, even if it's denied,

784
01:20:30,230 --> 01:20:31,385
it's going forward, right? >> yes.

785
01:20:38,830 --> 01:20:38,830
>> mr. Chairman, I make a motion on item number 6 za 25-0066,

786
01:20:45,970 --> 01:20:45,970
that we deny the motion as presented and note for counsel and staff,

787
01:20:53,750 --> 01:20:57,740
that the only real concerns that we have are with respect to the drainage as presented and that more information is needed.

788
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:02,120
with regard to the actual numbers on retention,

789
01:21:07,700 --> 01:21:10,880
detention, and the flow of the water. Note specifically that there were no comments on lot size

790
01:21:14,855 --> 01:21:14,855
or the development other than the entrance and absent drainage,

791
01:21:19,445 --> 01:21:23,090
there was good feedback. >> maybe just tagging on to that, the eventual let out side of the piping of the water, we want to say that?

792
01:21:29,615 --> 01:21:31,715
>> sure. >> you get that, right? >> yeah. Noting that there was concern about the eventual outlet and the length of

793
01:21:36,440 --> 01:21:36,440
the piping as well as the drainage on the westernmost portion of the property.

794
01:21:40,985 --> 01:21:43,400
>> with those notes, we have a motion to deny yes.

795
01:21:48,710 --> 01:21:50,855
everybody go ahead and vote now. Sorry, we need a second. Somebody second. We have a second.

796
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,745
thank you. Vote yes is to deny, vote no. Everybody go ahead and vote, please.

797
01:22:05,650 --> 01:22:05,650
if we can. The denial passes 42.

798
01:22:11,060 --> 01:22:11,060
just to explain to everyone in the room what that means is it will proceed to

799
01:22:16,550 --> 01:22:19,970
city council and dennis will make sure I get this right because there's a new methodology here.

800
01:22:23,930 --> 01:22:26,915
likely, dennis, I think the february 3 meeting, I guess, I would no sooner than that.

801
01:22:30,020 --> 01:22:30,020
february 3 meeting, it would go to city council with a denial

802
01:22:34,130 --> 01:22:34,130
based on the context provided by the vie chair in the interim.

803
01:22:38,735 --> 01:22:38,735
the applicant will continue to work on those items that we touched on

804
01:22:43,775 --> 01:22:47,000
and continue to stay in touch with the residents and just know that city council can have the ability to table something or not.

805
01:22:50,615 --> 01:22:53,480
stay tuned on. It sounds like they'll keep doing their homework, and we'll just see if the homework gets done for

806
01:22:56,300 --> 01:22:56,300
city council and or if that's up to the city council standards.

807
01:23:00,740 --> 01:23:04,550
hopefully that's clear for everybody in terms of how things move forward. Thank you, everybody for coming out this evening.

808
01:23:06,710 --> 01:23:09,080
who wanted to talk about item number six. Now we're going to go through the rest of our items

809
01:23:10,820 --> 01:23:13,370
for whoever wants to stick around for that fun. Thank you very much for coming out.

810
01:23:16,145 --> 01:23:19,940
now we'll move on to item number 7 on our agenda, zoning change and concept site plan for white chapel, methodist church.

811
01:23:24,140 --> 01:23:24,140
thank you.

812
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,380
we're ready. Thank you. >> good evening, chairman and commission.

813
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:53,285
I'll be presenting item seven, a zoning change and concept site plan for whites chapel methodist.

814
01:23:57,605 --> 01:24:01,520
>> speaking a little closer to the microphone. >> sorry, I'm not used to this new. >> sorry. I my old hearing. Thank you.

815
01:24:06,395 --> 01:24:06,395
>> again, this request is for an approval of a zoning change and concept

816
01:24:12,410 --> 01:24:12,410
slash site plan for white chapel methodist church located at 185 south chapel boulevard.

817
01:24:20,615 --> 01:24:20,615
the requested the current zoning is community service district,

818
01:24:25,460 --> 01:24:25,460
and they're requesting for sp2 generalized site plan district with cs uses.

819
01:24:31,100 --> 01:24:34,130
the reason for this zoning for their project phases and a proposed modification to the building.

820
01:24:39,490 --> 01:24:42,830
this is aerial view of the property located off south white chapel and south lake boulevard.

821
01:24:46,115 --> 01:24:46,115
future land use is public, semi public.

822
01:24:50,270 --> 01:24:53,930
current zoning is community service district. This is a street view from south wye chapel boulevard,

823
01:24:57,950 --> 01:25:01,760
a street view from east south lake boulevard. A drone view showing the parking lot towards the education building,

824
01:25:05,420 --> 01:25:07,355
which is one of the additions. A drone view showing the parking lot towards a foundry building,

825
01:25:11,270 --> 01:25:13,235
another one of their additions, and the street view from the youth activity

826
01:25:15,935 --> 01:25:19,790
building that they're building a new section of. I street view, sorry. This is the existing site plan.

827
01:25:24,455 --> 01:25:24,455
they originally had come for a new resource building for za 25 0069,

828
01:25:30,005 --> 01:25:33,110
and this is showing the proposed addition area. This is their proposed site plan.

829
01:25:35,555 --> 01:25:38,120
noting that it'll be broken up into two phases. In phase ii, they're doing a proposed addition of a new youth activity center,

830
01:25:43,490 --> 01:25:43,490
which already exists, but they're adding to it and the education building,

831
01:25:47,795 --> 01:25:50,765
as well as a parking lot for the first phase. Then for phase ii, they're doing the addition of the foundry building.

832
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:55,000
this is just showing the parking lot expansion.

833
01:25:59,230 --> 01:26:02,045
>> this is the site data summary, some things to note from it.

834
01:26:03,785 --> 01:26:05,660
for the new activity center, they're adding about approximately 17,000 square feet.

835
01:26:09,440 --> 01:26:11,390
for the education building, they're adding approximately 10,000 square feet,

836
01:26:14,495 --> 01:26:15,830
and for the foundry building, they're adding or the new floor area, for all these.

837
01:26:20,965 --> 01:26:20,965
the new floor area for this is 29,000 square feet.

838
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:30,350
noting that the required parking count is based on their sanctuary, which is a ratio of one parking space per three seats,

839
01:26:33,350 --> 01:26:37,190
and that's how they got the 667 parking spaces. This is their existing tree plan showing the demolition of those trees.

840
01:26:43,450 --> 01:26:46,055
this is their utility plan. Noting the existing 12 inch water line main off of

841
01:26:49,235 --> 01:26:49,235
southlake boulevard and the existing 15 foot stormwater easement

842
01:26:53,750 --> 01:26:55,250
that runs through the property, they'll be relocating the eight inch water line for phase 2.

843
01:26:59,260 --> 01:26:59,260
the grading plan. Drainage plan going towards the south.

844
01:27:05,180 --> 01:27:06,845
nothing changes here. Phase 1 landscape plan for the youth activity building and

845
01:27:11,810 --> 01:27:11,810
the education area and phase 2 of the landscape plan for the rendering building.

846
01:27:17,860 --> 01:27:17,860
this is a rendering for the youth activity center and education building.

847
01:27:22,645 --> 01:27:25,240
noting that for the youth activity center, they're adding, I think,

848
01:27:27,055 --> 01:27:29,045
I believe three feet to it. They're matching that second story next to the education building,

849
01:27:32,060 --> 01:27:33,605
and then education building. They have an existing third floor and they're just adjusting that with the addition.

850
01:27:40,810 --> 01:27:40,810
the height for the youth activity center is 42 feet at centers.

851
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:53,630
these are elevations from the east, south, north and education elevations on the west and east.

852
01:27:58,730 --> 01:27:58,730
phase 2 is the foundry building showing the rendering and existing elevation,

853
01:28:08,690 --> 01:28:08,690
the height being a maximum of 37 feet.

854
01:28:13,710 --> 01:28:16,525
elevations to the north, elevations to the south.

855
01:28:19,770 --> 01:28:19,770
as of now, there's no responses for the surrounding property owners,

856
01:28:25,135 --> 01:28:27,215
and happy to answer any questions. If there's anything else.

857
01:28:30,740 --> 01:28:30,740
>> any questions for staff on this one? All good.

858
01:28:37,190 --> 01:28:37,190
thank you I appreciate it. Call the applicant up for this one. If you don't mind.

859
01:28:41,435 --> 01:28:44,460
name and address for the record, please. Probably abbreviated presentation as just.

860
01:28:47,465 --> 01:28:49,760
>> yes. My name is brent klein, 1921, state highway 121, lewisville.

861
01:28:53,540 --> 01:28:53,540
we're obviously trying to cluster the new additions up against the existing building

862
01:28:58,550 --> 01:28:58,550
for circulation purposes and falling in with the vernacular of the rest of the complex.

863
01:29:04,750 --> 01:29:04,750
the phase 1 is the youth activity center.

864
01:29:09,890 --> 01:29:09,890
we're basically building a new building to the north of the existing education building,

865
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:16,625
and then we're adding a third floor, which is why we need the extra height to that existing building.

866
01:29:22,100 --> 01:29:25,070
it was structured to handle third floor. Then the new foundry building is taken off part of the choir rehearsal space.

867
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:34,460
in building a new two story building right there. That's more of a contemporary worship space, tiered seating.

868
01:29:39,970 --> 01:29:39,970
it does fit in with the 2.5 stories,

869
01:29:44,480 --> 01:29:44,480
but the height of the roof and that location to fit in the monocular and work out

870
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:49,880
for a worship center is a little taller than the allowable height.

871
01:29:56,510 --> 01:29:56,510
anyway, I don't know how much more detail you need on this.

872
01:30:00,830 --> 01:30:02,570
I think it's pretty simple. >> we'll see anyone have questions, they are ok?

873
01:30:07,810 --> 01:30:07,810
not right now. We're good if we need to we'll call you back up.

874
01:30:14,180 --> 01:30:14,420
>> thank you. >> thank you very much. Item number 7 on our agenda does require a public hearing.

875
01:30:20,900 --> 01:30:22,760
I'd like to go ahead and open that public hearing for anyone would like to come forward and comment on this item.

876
01:30:26,260 --> 01:30:26,260
much less traffic this time.

877
01:30:30,380 --> 01:30:33,785
going once, twice. We'll go ahead and close the public hearing.

878
01:30:37,070 --> 01:30:40,850
you look like you're ready to jump at it there. >> what is the height seems to be,

879
01:30:44,480 --> 01:30:46,430
a major concern here? How does this correspond to the existing building now as far as height twice goes?

880
01:30:52,010 --> 01:30:52,010
because isn't the main chapel taller than 35 feet?

881
01:31:00,540 --> 01:31:00,540
>> the main chapel by way of building height itself is within the 35 feet.

882
01:31:07,730 --> 01:31:11,510
however, the church fire and steeple. Is much taller than that and the zoning ordinance under the standards

883
01:31:16,940 --> 01:31:16,940
community service district and some of the other districts that the city

884
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:20,960
has that permits buildings up to 35 feet,

885
01:31:25,820 --> 01:31:25,820
etc has grants city council the ability to

886
01:31:30,650 --> 01:31:30,650
grant a height waiver for those type of elements.

887
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:40,025
for what they're proposing with this new phase. They had built one of the structures structurally to

888
01:31:42,770 --> 01:31:46,745
where it could handle a third floor being added. Then one of the other buildings they're adding are going above the height from

889
01:31:50,960 --> 01:31:50,960
what the zoning ordinance permits council to grant variances to.

890
01:31:56,855 --> 01:31:56,855
they're rezoning the property into the sp2 zoning district to allow and request

891
01:32:04,385 --> 01:32:04,385
a regulation to go to the third floor and to

892
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:08,720
the heights that they're proposing on the new structures.

893
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:14,240
>> thanks. Any other questions for staff on this item?

894
01:32:19,505 --> 01:32:19,505
>> the top of the peak roof of the existing and the top of the flat new higher roof,

895
01:32:27,950 --> 01:32:31,720
is that the dimension we're talking about. >> correct. The height of the new structures technically.

896
01:32:39,260 --> 01:32:42,860
they have gone on and addressed in their regulations, I think, maximum height to cover the steeple and everything for the existing church,

897
01:32:48,425 --> 01:32:48,425
just under the proposed regulations they've got for the sp2 district.

898
01:32:54,575 --> 01:32:54,575
but the driver of this is the new building,

899
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:00,200
the third floor, and I believe one of the heights of the other building.

900
01:33:04,235 --> 01:33:08,210
>> it's that third floor that pushes that building 2 foot 6 roughly higher than the peak of the building it's attaching to, is that right?

901
01:33:13,400 --> 01:33:13,400
>> I believe that is correct and then the third floor being added

902
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:17,720
because the district only allows up to 2.5 stories.

903
01:33:25,510 --> 01:33:29,170
>> any other questions for staff? Any other deliberations?

904
01:33:34,690 --> 01:33:37,700
>> this is not going to be a problem for the fire department, is it as far as building height goes?

905
01:33:40,660 --> 01:33:40,660
>> they do have a comment in their review based on fire code,

906
01:33:45,710 --> 01:33:45,710
they'll need to widen the fire lane by two feet as

907
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:50,000
it approaches those building heights in order to allow

908
01:33:55,370 --> 01:33:55,370
their ladder trucks to fully extend their gear and

909
01:34:01,085 --> 01:34:01,085
balance what may be needed as far as the extension of that ladder.

910
01:34:08,135 --> 01:34:08,135
but I believe they've been working with the church on how that can be addressed.

911
01:34:15,785 --> 01:34:17,860
>> thank you. >> any other deliberations,

912
01:34:21,590 --> 01:34:21,590
thoughts before we entertain the motion?

913
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:29,600
>> mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion that we approve item number 7 on our agenda, za25-0075,

914
01:34:33,500 --> 01:34:37,265
subject to our staff report dated january 2, 2026, and also subject to our site plan review summary number 2,

915
01:34:40,535 --> 01:34:43,825
dated january 2, 2026? >> motion to be second. >> second.

916
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:51,760
>> please and motion passes 6-0 so thank you very much. Good luck.

917
01:35:01,135 --> 01:35:02,895
>> thank you. >> city council meeting, two meetings from now. I'm learning to say that.

918
01:35:07,970 --> 01:35:09,725
next item, item number 8, consideration of a preliminary plat for trademark southlake.

919
01:35:25,020 --> 01:35:25,020
>> good evening again. I'm here to present the item number 8 flap of trademark.

920
01:35:30,550 --> 01:35:30,550
again, this property is located at 1,800 and 1900 north white chapel boulevard.

921
01:35:36,360 --> 01:35:39,650
here's an area view of the property. The future land use is mixed that's currently zoned ecc employment center zoning.

922
01:35:46,385 --> 01:35:46,385
street view from northway chapel boulevard, looking west.

923
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:50,840
here is west kirkwood boulevard street view looking south.

924
01:35:55,580 --> 01:35:59,240
street view from the frontage road off state highway 114, looking east and then here is the preliminary plat

925
01:36:03,265 --> 01:36:03,265
that they are going for in the tree inventory plan,

926
01:36:08,500 --> 01:36:10,390
as well as a tree conservation plan, which lines up with what was approved when it came through zoning.

927
01:36:14,320 --> 01:36:14,320
then their preliminary grading plan as well as their stormwater plan. Questions?

928
01:36:23,015 --> 01:36:25,805
>> just confirming that this is completely in agreement with all previous approvals, correct?

929
01:36:29,075 --> 01:36:31,100
>> yes. >> dennis, you'll confirm again, this is very ministerial in nature.

930
01:36:33,305 --> 01:36:37,055
we don't really have any latitude, thanks to the state on these items. >> that is correct, chairman. Thank you.

931
01:36:39,995 --> 01:36:43,150
>> thank you. Any questions for staff? Thank you very much. Is there an applicant present this evening?

932
01:36:47,465 --> 01:36:49,235
well here. Hold a hold tight. Does anyone have a need to speak with the applicant on this one?

933
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:57,560
I think we're in good shape. But thank you for showing up because you do need to show up to play to win, by the way.

934
01:37:01,595 --> 01:37:03,695
but sometimes you don't need to speak. I think we're good if you're good.

935
01:37:05,990 --> 01:37:05,990
I think you're good. Item number 8 does require public hearings.

936
01:37:12,050 --> 01:37:14,480
I'll go ahead and open that public hearing to anyone who would like to come forward and comment on this item and seeing no one,

937
01:37:17,630 --> 01:37:20,660
I will close the public hearing. I'll just note for the record that since this is

938
01:37:23,090 --> 01:37:25,790
ministerial in nature with no latitude whatsoever, even though I recused myself during the first time this came through,

939
01:37:29,660 --> 01:37:30,950
this being a preliminary plat. I'm going to go ahead and vote on it we don't really have

940
01:37:35,060 --> 01:37:35,060
any discretion anyway so I just want to note that for the record. You back.

941
01:37:40,625 --> 01:37:40,625
>> mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we approve item number 8 on the agenda, za25-0076,

942
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:51,065
subject to our staff report dated january 2, 2026, and also subject to the plat review summary number 1 dated january 2, 2026.

943
01:37:56,690 --> 01:37:59,135
>> motion, do we have a second. >> second. >> please. Roll now.

944
01:38:07,745 --> 01:38:10,445
passes 6-0. Good luck at the next level. Appreciate it.

945
01:38:12,725 --> 01:38:12,725
now, we move on to the last item on our planning and zoning agenda meeting,

946
01:38:17,165 --> 01:38:17,165
item number 9, preliminary plat for dove ridge addition.

947
01:38:36,820 --> 01:38:36,820
>> good evening again. This is item 9 preliminary plat for dove ridge addition.

948
01:38:43,210 --> 01:38:43,210
it was formerly known as a cardinal court addition when it first came through,

949
01:38:47,735 --> 01:38:50,570
and the purpose of this request is to seek approval for seven single family residential lots and

950
01:38:53,930 --> 01:38:53,930
approximately 10.28 acres located at 28 in 2021,

951
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:02,465
17 east of road. This is the aerial view off of east and kimble.

952
01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:07,360
the future land use is low density residential.

953
01:39:11,660 --> 01:39:11,660
the current zoning is s of 1a, single family residential.

954
01:39:16,205 --> 01:39:16,205
a street view from east of road facing south.

955
01:39:20,285 --> 01:39:20,285
this is the previously approved plat, za25-0003.

956
01:39:25,850 --> 01:39:25,850
noting that this one had five lots and two open space lots.

957
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:32,930
for this preliminary plat, they're adding on to that other property and taking out one of

958
01:39:40,010 --> 01:39:43,400
the open space lots and adding 26 so that they'll make the one acre for all of them and no changes to lots one through five.

959
01:39:48,830 --> 01:39:51,845
this is their existing drainage plan, their preliminary grading and drainage plan.

960
01:39:55,460 --> 01:39:55,460
preliminary utility plan, noting the proposed water and sewer lines.

961
01:40:02,950 --> 01:40:06,020
tree conservation plan, and noting that the applicant is requesting the following variance to

962
01:40:11,150 --> 01:40:11,150
allow the proposed street to be a private gated street and happy to answer any questions.

963
01:40:20,590 --> 01:40:24,460
>> going back real quick. >> [inaudible] to gated.

964
01:40:32,350 --> 01:40:32,350
>> maybe ask the applicant about that.

965
01:40:37,150 --> 01:40:37,150
dennis, is this consistent with all previous approvals?

966
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:42,760
>> this property was originally zoned,

967
01:40:47,675 --> 01:40:47,675
sf1 without a concept plan.

968
01:40:52,505 --> 01:40:52,505
they did have a plat showing, I believe,

969
01:40:57,500 --> 01:40:59,900
approved for both of the currently platted lots that are involved in this preliminary plat.

970
01:41:06,335 --> 01:41:06,335
it is not really governed by a concept plan so it's required to

971
01:41:11,870 --> 01:41:11,870
meet the sf1 a regulations and the subdivision regulations.

972
01:41:18,575 --> 01:41:18,575
from that standpoint, it appears to do that with a

973
01:41:23,630 --> 01:41:23,630
few with corrections identified in the staff review summary,

974
01:41:29,360 --> 01:41:29,360
which I believe the applicant is or has addressed.

975
01:41:33,785 --> 01:41:33,785
the exception to this would be request for approval of the private street.

976
01:41:40,325 --> 01:41:40,325
which the subdivision ordinance requires residential subdivisions be

977
01:41:45,740 --> 01:41:45,740
developed and constructed with public streets and at some at which point,

978
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:55,235
at least 75% of the lots are homeowner controlled or occupied out of the developer or builder's hands.

979
01:42:00,095 --> 01:42:00,095
the 100% of the neighborhood must petition the city to convert that to private.

980
01:42:09,620 --> 01:42:09,620
the city council has authority over modification to the subdivision ordinance.

981
01:42:17,165 --> 01:42:20,360
in the case where we have I believe in almost all cases that we have approved private streets,

982
01:42:23,660 --> 01:42:27,605
it's been done by way of a variance or as part of the zoning of a pud or concept plan and variance.

983
01:42:32,915 --> 01:42:35,030
>> what is this situation, I didn't recall this date.

984
01:42:37,505 --> 01:42:37,505
was this part of the original approval?

985
01:42:42,790 --> 01:42:46,550
>> the applicant or the property owner developer did not follow through with the original preliminary plat that was approved.

986
01:42:50,060 --> 01:42:50,060
this is a new or revised pulmonary plat coming forward,

987
01:42:54,605 --> 01:42:54,605
which they are not bound necessarily by that previously approved preliminary plat.

988
01:43:01,100 --> 01:43:05,000
the ordinance does allow them to submit a new plat for consideration. >> [noise] that includes the community is the request.

989
01:43:10,350 --> 01:43:13,495
>> that includes a request for a private street. >> private street with the gate.

990
01:43:15,340 --> 01:43:15,340
>> yes and that is what they have requested.

991
01:43:20,130 --> 01:43:20,130
>> yes. Thank you.

992
01:43:24,410 --> 01:43:26,495
was the applicant here for this one? Do you mind coming forward to the podium name and address?

993
01:43:38,500 --> 01:43:41,240
>> my name is john sharkey. I am the applicant.

994
01:43:42,530 --> 01:43:44,810
I've got the consultants here. I 1012 elgrove curt,

995
01:43:47,630 --> 01:43:49,400
keller, texas is where I live. I'm going to hand it over to curtis and he can take mic.

996
01:43:55,090 --> 01:43:58,025
>> dan, the questions you're asking, this didn't go through a zoning process.

997
01:44:02,110 --> 01:44:02,110
it was made pretty clear on an adjacent property to this

998
01:44:06,200 --> 01:44:10,160
that the city didn't want to change this zoning from sf one a. We haven't attempted to rezone this something different.

999
01:44:13,835 --> 01:44:13,835
what's different here from the original preliminary plat is that

1000
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:19,120
we were able to acquire a little bit of property from the adjacent neighbor to the east,

1001
01:44:24,430 --> 01:44:27,790
who owns what will now be called bout 7. Acquiring that property allowed us to yield no lot in here.

1002
01:44:33,110 --> 01:44:33,110
basically, it's going from five lots to six lots on the development end.

1003
01:44:42,370 --> 01:44:42,370
the request for the plat,

1004
01:44:46,385 --> 01:44:49,280
the original plat was done with someone else, you recall, the ex mayor was up here asking for that.

1005
01:44:52,610 --> 01:44:56,195
he did not end up getting involved in this. There's a new applicant,

1006
01:44:59,345 --> 01:44:59,345
and their plans for the property are very,

1007
01:45:03,890 --> 01:45:03,890
very high level and consistent with moss farms just to the west of this.

1008
01:45:10,040 --> 01:45:10,040
I know how you feel about gated properties,.

1009
01:45:15,430 --> 01:45:19,220
>> this is a new request, correct? >> this is a new request, yes, with the platting.

1010
01:45:21,155 --> 01:45:23,600
what's different from what you were expecting is a lot of times that's done during zoning.

1011
01:45:25,865 --> 01:45:27,875
since this was not rezoned, it's done during plateau.

1012
01:45:30,095 --> 01:45:30,095
>> where is the requested gate to be put?

1013
01:45:35,060 --> 01:45:37,070
you know how to use the mouse. Yes. You've been up here once or twice. I ought correct.

1014
01:45:39,500 --> 01:45:41,810
>> do you know, there'll be a median here, and that's why it gets wider here.

1015
01:45:44,195 --> 01:45:44,195
it'll be right off.

1016
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:53,105
now, there's a gate here, of course, for this thing. There's already a gate here for the existing property.

1017
01:45:58,660 --> 01:45:58,660
of course, across the street here is the storage yard and very familiar.

1018
01:46:05,465 --> 01:46:08,975
the commercial any questions for the applicant? >> I have a question, not for the applicant,

1019
01:46:10,850 --> 01:46:14,720
but are we approving the private road in the gate today? >> I was going to wait till we're do the applicant.

1020
01:46:18,400 --> 01:46:21,200
make sure we have the land. >> is there already a house at six?

1021
01:46:25,210 --> 01:46:28,910
>> well, the on lot 3, there is a big house here, yes.

1022
01:46:30,980 --> 01:46:34,400
that lot has been fashioned to retain that house. There is already a house on lot 7,

1023
01:46:36,380 --> 01:46:37,880
that's not part of our project, but it has to be part of the plate since their lot will be changing.

1024
01:46:41,660 --> 01:46:44,540
>> why can't you do the driveway going into the existing driveway that serves one through five,

1025
01:46:47,975 --> 01:46:47,975
six, and not have that flag lot going out there onto the street with another sep.

1026
01:46:54,380 --> 01:46:57,515
>> that's already an existing lot. That's our neighbor. Lot 7 is the neighboring lot.

1027
01:47:02,330 --> 01:47:04,040
there's already a big house on it. They already have what you described as a flag lot there.

1028
01:47:08,585 --> 01:47:12,110
the only difference we're making with their lot is we're acquiring this blue hatched area here.

1029
01:47:16,510 --> 01:47:16,510
to make this whole entry a little bit cleaner.

1030
01:47:21,110 --> 01:47:23,330
>> well, why wouldn't you put the driveway where the blue hatched area is in the area through there?

1031
01:47:26,855 --> 01:47:26,855
I'm missing the whole point about why we need two driveways.

1032
01:47:32,050 --> 01:47:35,750
>> because this is an existing lot. He's got his own driveway.

1033
01:47:37,715 --> 01:47:40,700
he doesn't want to be part of the development. We're just acquiring a little bit of property from him in order to make this development.

1034
01:47:45,485 --> 01:47:47,405
this will be lots 1 through six. We'll be part of the dov ridge development.

1035
01:47:49,895 --> 01:47:51,815
>> I got it. Thanks. >> any other questions for the applicant.

1036
01:47:55,215 --> 01:47:58,210
>> I have one thing to add, if you don't mind. I did circulate a memo that I don't know if everybody got it,

1037
01:48:01,720 --> 01:48:01,720
but it was stating our particular request for a private gate and a private road.

1038
01:48:10,140 --> 01:48:14,120
did everybody receive that? I guess if you haven't, I only have one copy here,

1039
01:48:15,590 --> 01:48:17,510
but I could certainly give it to you. I'll walk shortly through some of the reasons why we think it would be appropriate,

1040
01:48:23,180 --> 01:48:26,420
first and foremost, I think just from a level of competition, having the gate is what buyers expect and hope for.

1041
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:30,080
secondarily like curtis had mentioned across the street,

1042
01:48:34,565 --> 01:48:37,625
is that self storage and the gas station, and so when you look at site context definitely matters,

1043
01:48:42,425 --> 01:48:44,345
and I think this would allow this portion of east of road to be more consistent with the gate,

1044
01:48:48,740 --> 01:48:48,740
very similar to moss farms.

1045
01:48:53,110 --> 01:48:53,110
fourth, I put here that it's already gated.

1046
01:48:58,280 --> 01:48:58,280
it already has a gate for one single family home that's on lot 3.

1047
01:49:02,735 --> 01:49:02,735
it does not have that's obviously a private driveway.

1048
01:49:07,220 --> 01:49:10,880
now we're just asking for a private road, so it doesn't really increase any infrastructure budget or infrastructure needs for the city.

1049
01:49:15,610 --> 01:49:18,530
another just benefit to the city is gated communities typically have higher property values,

1050
01:49:22,715 --> 01:49:26,380
so that'll increase the tax basis. Really, this is a design choice that I think is appropriate.

1051
01:49:32,170 --> 01:49:32,170
we would address any concerns that you did have from previous concerns that you have with

1052
01:49:37,160 --> 01:49:37,160
gated communities right up front. That's all I have to say.

1053
01:49:41,675 --> 01:49:45,040
>> any other questions have? Thank you much. Appreciate it.

1054
01:49:48,670 --> 01:49:51,710
dennis, I guess, can you just maybe clarify to commissioner filans question and I guess probably my question,

1055
01:49:54,170 --> 01:49:57,770
I guess what latitude is granted here in terms of can there be support of the application in general,

1056
01:50:03,920 --> 01:50:07,835
support of the application, removing the gate? Can there just be a denial,

1057
01:50:09,980 --> 01:50:09,980
or what are the options just to make sure commissioners understands?

1058
01:50:14,390 --> 01:50:14,390
if you disagree with the variance being requested,

1059
01:50:20,230 --> 01:50:20,230
you do have the ability to recommend denial on that basis.

1060
01:50:27,365 --> 01:50:29,495
you may also approve it, but deny the variance request for the gated access or in private street,

1061
01:50:39,220 --> 01:50:39,220
or you can you have the authority to approve and recommend the private gated street.

1062
01:50:47,690 --> 01:50:47,690
>> perfect. There's latitude here.

1063
01:50:52,240 --> 01:50:55,625
>> the street dimensions, back of curb, size of cul desac,

1064
01:50:57,695 --> 01:50:57,695
all of those things, are they the same as would be for a city street?

1065
01:51:02,480 --> 01:51:02,480
>> yes. They are required to build a conforming city street

1066
01:51:07,490 --> 01:51:11,270
and comply with the provisions within the subdivision ordinance pertaining to a private street.

1067
01:51:15,260 --> 01:51:17,495
>> whether it's a city street or a private street, the dimensions have shown this plan,

1068
01:51:19,505 --> 01:51:22,640
the plat, the lots, and all that would be as the same? >> yes. That's correct.

1069
01:51:24,875 --> 01:51:27,770
>> I guess along this I think you're answering this, but if it was a city maintained street,

1070
01:51:31,040 --> 01:51:33,935
would there be the requirement of sidewalks? >> there is a requirement for sidewalks,

1071
01:51:38,945 --> 01:51:38,945
absent of them asking to not provide them.

1072
01:51:45,190 --> 01:51:45,190
they have not indicated otherwise that they would not.

1073
01:51:51,550 --> 01:51:51,550
>> any other questions before we deliberate.

1074
01:51:56,680 --> 01:51:59,450
well, I think you guys know how I feel about this. I think one of the things our past city leadership did in great wisdom as I remember,

1075
01:52:04,175 --> 01:52:07,580
mangan has got a lot of requests early on for gated gate. The whole town could be gated under this logic.

1076
01:52:10,565 --> 01:52:11,990
thankfully, they held off, and I think that's part of what really preserves what our city is today,

1077
01:52:16,250 --> 01:52:18,710
which doesn't feel like a bunch of walls and gates. Particularly on the north side, particularly along road.

1078
01:52:21,665 --> 01:52:25,015
I remember voting against moss farm joy. Unfortunately, city council did the field the same way,

1079
01:52:27,700 --> 01:52:30,250
and it sticks out like a sore thumb along there. My 2 cents, supportive of the application.

1080
01:52:33,895 --> 01:52:36,840
>> chairman, I apologize for interrupting. We did get an updated exhibit that wasn't in

1081
01:52:41,540 --> 01:52:41,540
our presentation that shows the street configuration and the gate.

1082
01:52:47,525 --> 01:52:47,525
they also addressed in this design exhibit they provided

1083
01:52:53,480 --> 01:52:53,480
the comment that we had

1084
01:52:57,980 --> 01:52:57,980
pertaining to the intersection angle of the street with dove road.

1085
01:53:03,200 --> 01:53:03,200
but this is where their gates would be configured

1086
01:53:08,600 --> 01:53:08,600
and shows their entry plan if that helps with the commission's consideration.

1087
01:53:13,925 --> 01:53:15,770
>> we'll note that for the record. Comments to stand.

1088
01:53:18,850 --> 01:53:21,905
I'll see what other folks think about it. >> can I ask a question about the existing home?

1089
01:53:25,295 --> 01:53:28,055
is part of the reason the gates remaining because the people are staying in that lot 3 and the gates already there or is that not?

1090
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:32,000
>> I believe it's all.

1091
01:53:39,550 --> 01:53:39,550
>> home.

1092
01:53:44,214 --> 01:53:45,680
>> [inaudible] >> well, I always love to go along with what your thoughts are, dan.

1093
01:53:49,370 --> 01:53:51,335
it's like, I do air conditioning work, and I'm here to tell you that every landscaper

1094
01:53:54,455 --> 01:53:57,785
in south lake will have the gate code here. The sense of security that these gates.

1095
01:54:02,050 --> 01:54:03,535
>> gates to make money. >> absolutely. Absolutely. I can't tell you

1096
01:54:07,105 --> 01:54:07,105
how many gate codes that I have two private residences all over the city.

1097
01:54:12,825 --> 01:54:12,825
anyway, if you're trying to sell security, I don't think it's a good idea.

1098
01:54:18,200 --> 01:54:19,760
>> I want to junk up the environment so they can make a little more money. That's the question.

1099
01:54:23,090 --> 01:54:25,190
>> I guess I have the opposite experience. I took a walk around my neighborhood to saddleback ridge and got the landscaper close

1100
01:54:29,840 --> 01:54:32,260
the gate and I got stuck and I had to like shimmy under the gate and probably had to get stitches on my face.

1101
01:54:35,485 --> 01:54:38,590
I don't love gates either. I just want to be able to walk around the neighborhood around my neighborhood and not get locked in.

1102
01:54:41,620 --> 01:54:41,620
I am against it as well.

1103
01:54:46,930 --> 01:54:46,930
>>mr. Chairman, I make a motion on item number 9 on our agenda 2.

1104
01:54:52,340 --> 01:54:54,890
>> I'm sorry. We closed the public hearing. Didn't we?

1105
01:54:59,120 --> 01:55:01,940
did we not open it? I of caution. I can't remember. We will reopen or open the public hearing.

1106
01:55:05,750 --> 01:55:09,350
apologies been a long night. We get a little punch. Please if you want to come forward,

1107
01:55:11,150 --> 01:55:14,180
please come forward, name and address. >> thank you.

1108
01:55:15,410 --> 01:55:16,970
>> fire away. One thing else. Thank you. B.

1109
01:55:19,865 --> 01:55:23,150
>> my name is milton millman. I live at 15:05 moss lane, which is just behind this development.

1110
01:55:26,795 --> 01:55:28,445
I'm within 300 feet of the, so I got a little card to come here.

1111
01:55:32,360 --> 01:55:32,360
I've watched the transformation of this south side of dove,

1112
01:55:36,515 --> 01:55:36,515
which is just west of kimble for the past, five years or so.

1113
01:55:41,210 --> 01:55:42,995
there are two houses, not in this plate that are under construction currently right there along that stretch.

1114
01:55:47,435 --> 01:55:49,280
if you drive by there, you'll see that. Traffic has increased significantly.

1115
01:55:51,815 --> 01:55:51,815
my primary concern here is not about the development, no problem.

1116
01:55:56,420 --> 01:55:56,420
I understand that, but it really is the width of dove road in this section.

1117
01:56:00,545 --> 01:56:03,455
is really narrow. It's pretty dangerous. I have seen a number of really close calls with head on collisions.

1118
01:56:07,280 --> 01:56:11,120
the traffic area, I'm wondering if the city has something to do to address that width of dove road.

1119
01:56:15,350 --> 01:56:18,530
I really think it should be looked at if you're going to put seven new homes in there, which is now going to be nine new homes in there

1120
01:56:20,480 --> 01:56:24,155
because of the other two that I say are under construction right now. There's a synagogue right down there. I don't know if you know that.

1121
01:56:26,555 --> 01:56:28,730
there's put traffic that goes up the street. There's no sidewalks there.

1122
01:56:30,605 --> 01:56:33,350
they go to yates corner store, etc. I'm just concerned from a safety perspective.

1123
01:56:35,915 --> 01:56:39,290
other than that, I don't have a concern about the development itself. Although the gate thing is new to me.

1124
01:56:41,285 --> 01:56:43,790
moss does have a gate, as you noted. You just need to make sure that gate if you're going to approve that is far enough

1125
01:56:46,820 --> 01:56:50,510
back because otherwise you're going to get backed up traffic on the street. That's a bad section of dove.

1126
01:56:52,790 --> 01:56:56,390
anyway, those are my comments. That's helpful. >> thank you very much, apologies,

1127
01:56:57,995 --> 01:57:01,400
that I almost didn't give you that opportunity. You were very patient to wait here. Thank you for charging in there. Appreciate that.

1128
01:57:04,880 --> 01:57:07,355
the public hearing remains open. For anyone else who'd like to come forward and comment on this item.

1129
01:57:11,165 --> 01:57:11,165
seeing no, we will close the public hearing that we stuck in.

1130
01:57:15,590 --> 01:57:15,590
thank goodness. With that I guess good points noted there.

1131
01:57:21,320 --> 01:57:23,000
maybe dennis is this marches forward, if there's any traffic information that

1132
01:57:28,070 --> 01:57:28,070
staff can just be aware of there any future plans of widening or anything,

1133
01:57:33,920 --> 01:57:33,920
maybe the resident can get with staff and just confirm.

1134
01:57:37,970 --> 01:57:41,900
is there anything I guess top of mind? I know as we talked about. >> I don't I don't know of anything that's actually scheduled.

1135
01:57:47,050 --> 01:57:47,050
I would have to look into our capital improvements plan and

1136
01:57:51,860 --> 01:57:51,860
see what's there and where it's placed right now?

1137
01:57:58,385 --> 01:58:01,820
>> the resident can get with staff and they can confirm where some of that may be down the road and our plans.

1138
01:58:05,825 --> 01:58:09,680
it is the last area of town. It doesn't have a sidewalk yet, which we all know, it is a little complicated there,

1139
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:13,685
but maybe one day. Hopefully you can get with staff to help you with some of that,

1140
01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:18,455
but thank you for sharing your thoughts. Any other deerations before we entertain a motion?

1141
01:58:22,870 --> 01:58:22,870
>> mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we approve item number 9 on our agenda za 25-0077,

1142
01:58:30,665 --> 01:58:30,665
subject to our staff report dated january 8th, 2026.

1143
01:58:34,715 --> 01:58:34,715
also, subject to our revised plat review summary number 1, dated january 8th,

1144
01:58:39,380 --> 01:58:39,380
2026, and specifically denying the variance request.

1145
01:58:44,420 --> 01:58:47,360
>> we have a motion. We have second. >> second. >> let's go to vote, please.

1146
01:58:52,660 --> 01:58:56,555
there we go. Try it again. It looks like the motion passes with denial of that variance request.

1147
01:59:05,285 --> 01:59:08,630
good luck at the next level. Appreciate you guys coming out tonight. Now we will gable out at 8:29 p.m. Our planning and zoning commission meeting.