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Hey, I want to welcome everybody out to

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Planning and Zoning Commission for this

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night, April 1st. Um, to get started

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with, I've asked Commissioner Woodhouse

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to lead us in the pledge of allegiance.

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To the flag of the United States of

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America and to the republic for it

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stands one nation under God indivisible

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with liberty andice for all.

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» Thank you Commissioner Woodhouse.

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Um, our first

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uh agenda item for the night is the

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approval of the minutes from

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>> the last three months. It looks like

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>> my all. Sorry.

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>> Has anybody had a chance to review

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those? And if so, I'd take a motion.

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>> I'll make that motion. Approve the

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minutes.

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>> Have a second.

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>> I'll second.

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>> A motion second. All in favor?

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>> I.

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>> Motion is approved. Any opposed?

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Um,

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we have a preliminary plat to come

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before us. It's the Andy Ridge

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subdivision.

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So, the next two items on the agenda are

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related. Uh, one is the preliminary plan

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and the other is the zone change. I'll

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present uh both or I can do it

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separately. But we do have two separate

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motions as well as a public hearing for

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uh the zone change. So this is the

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property that we're looking at. Um here

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on the screen uh just barely over three

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acres in size. Next slide please. Um on

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the left you see the zoning

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designations. Uh arrowhead subdivision

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wraps around the property and it would

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also provide the street access to the

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standard subdivision that's being

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proposed. Uh sorry back. So, we've got

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R112 north, east, and south, and then

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existing RR rural residential to the

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west. Um, and Quail Run, uh, is a

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private road which serves a number of

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houses off of it. Um, next slide. So,

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this is the proposal. Um, there is an

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existing house on the property which

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would remain and it would continue to

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have its access off of uh, Quail Run

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Road. the five new lots being proposed

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uh would have access only via the

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culdeac that's being uh shown here on

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the on the image. Um as a standard

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subdivision, each lot needs to meet the

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minimum uh lot size as well as

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dimensions. And so we've got 100 ft

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width on each lot uh over 100 ft of

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depth. Three of the lots are in the

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range of 12 to 13,000. We have a 13 to

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14, a 15 to 16, and then the existing

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home uh is on 51,000 square ft.

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Um the DRC did look at this uh earlier

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or excuse me last month. We're in April

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now and recommended approval. If we go

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to the next slide,

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uh this shows the street that would be

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extended and become the culdeac from the

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east. Next slide. U next slide.

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Uh next slide.

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So uh as mentioned the development

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review committee does recommend

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approval. Um this is the proposed fi uh

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motion for the preliminary cl uh

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findings and conditions as as written.

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Um five was specific. Um if we go back

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to

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the coldest Yep. So five states that

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one, two, three, and four will be

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addressed and accessed from the

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culde-sac and that lot five uh will be

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addressed off of Quail Run Road. And

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then lot excuse me uh condition five

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also that the frontage for lot five

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which is the lot with the existing home.

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Um as far as setbacks, fencing,

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landscaping, um that would be treated

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like a front yard. So we wouldn't have a

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stretch of fencing that would be uh up

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along uh the culde-sac.

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Um any questions on the subdivision

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request?

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>> So what does that mean for the fence on

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the the to the rear of lot five? So

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that's saying that it would that would

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be their backyard. They would have to

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run it in a shorter fence like a 4ft

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fence. They could do a 4ft fence or if

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they wanted six feet it'd have to come

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off um

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>> I believe 15 feet from the sidewalk.

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>> Would that only be a fence? I assume

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like because access is on Quail Run,

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there's no like back entrance or

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anything like that or do we

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>> There's no restriction as far as them

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not having a a second driveway. So they

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could have a driveway access off of the

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culde-sac. Um, but as far as structures,

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like if they wanted to place the shed,

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it wouldn't be able to fit uh here. They

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could do it over here. And then there's

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some existing buildings over here.

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And so this request is for a standard

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subdivision. Uh so the planning

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commission would be the approving body.

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Obviously, it's subject to the council

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approving the zone change from RR to

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R112 so that it could develop um as

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currently indicated on the general plan.

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>> Okay. One thing you uh just for the for

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the public's information, can we go back

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to the map and show exactly where this

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is in Spanish Fork?

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» One more Ian.

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» Okay, so this is offered ahead.

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Main Street

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>> and then this other one right Oh, wrong

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way.

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>> This is Woodland Hills Drive right here.

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>> Yes. And then Mill Road.

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>> And then Mill Road. Okay, great. Thanks

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for that orientation.

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» The applicant is here tonight. um for

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just for the format of this. You you'll

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we'll then have a public hearing

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presenting on the zone change.

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>> Yeah, we can do this. We'll need to do

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them separately. So, we could do the

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motion first on this item and then I'm

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happy to uh answer any questions

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>> on the zone change and then we'll need a

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public hearing at that time before we

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act on it.

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>> Okay. So, then to reiterate, I I'm sorry

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that I'm just So, to reiterate, this is

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the existing home. This is their front

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door. They have a drive or something

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that that goes this way.

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>> Yes.

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>> And then the front of these homes of all

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the other homes will be here. This will

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be their access. And then this is their

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rear and they'll have a fence there.

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>> If they do, it'll have to be set back as

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if it was a front yard. So that the

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culde-sac will have uniform look instead

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of one lot that has

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>> Okay, that was a

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>> sixoot fence for instance. was what was

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striking me funny. Okay.

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>> But a fence is not required. They could

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optionally choose to not have a fence.

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>> Correct.

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>> Yeah.

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» Thank you, Brandon. Would the applicant

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like to come up and address us?

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>> You have any points that you feel you

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might want to clarify or

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>> highlight?

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>> I think Brandon did a great job.

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>> He did a good job.

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>> He does a great job. So,

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>> would you please state your name?

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>> Andre Christensen. Great.

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>> Uh, do you have any questions for me?

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Are you do you currently own this

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property?

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>> I don't. I'm working with

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>> You're in the You're in your due

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diligence trying to secure. Okay.

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[snorts]

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>> Great.

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>> So, this isn't your home that's already

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existing on the property?

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>> Yeah.

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>> Okay.

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» Was that the original property owner?

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The homeowner there that they own the whole

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>> that owned it that I'm working with.

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Yes.

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and and he lives in he he doesn't live

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around here. He rents the home now.

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>> Maybe not.

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>> Yeah, he he lives out in Vernal. Super

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nice guy.

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>> So then why keep the So he wants to keep

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he's planning to keep this part of the

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property.

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>> He'll keep that property. Yes.

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>> Huh.

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» Okay.

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>> I guess we have any questions. That was

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easy. Thank you.

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>> Thank you. That's all. Mr. Chairman.

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>> Yes.

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>> Can I add one thing now? And it I don't

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know exactly how we'd look at how it

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would apply, whether it's more on the

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platter, the zone change, but one of the

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neighbors reached out to me yesterday. I

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appreciate just being able to talk with

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Mr. Christensen a minute ago about the

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neighbors concern

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of having an arena. I believe they ride

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horses there right up against the

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subdivision, what would be the

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subdivision. It's against the subject

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property now. and they have uh suggested

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that some fencing should be put in place

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with the development.

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>> She's not able to be here tonight. Uh so

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my thought would be that uh it'd be best

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if the applicant who has talked to her

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before, as I understand, on different

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issues. I think good relationship there,

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but I think it'd be helpful if before

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this goes to the city council, we have a

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conversation with that neighbor about

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what they're thinking and just try to

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come up with something that works. Where

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is the writing arena located?

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>> Right there.

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>> As far as a fence, what are they

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desiring?

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>> It's right there.

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Yeah, there's certainly different ways

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to look at it and I'm not ready at

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tonight at all to talk, you know, about

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what might make sense to, if anything,

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to require of the of the applicant. But,

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um, I think there's reason to be

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sensitive to somebody having something

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like that next to a development and

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where

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>> reason being that kids play in the

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backyard might startle a horse or

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something like that or

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>> Yeah. And she's concerned about people

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complaining about dust.

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>> Yeah, cuz they've also got that kind of

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thing. They have they have lights in the

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arena there

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>> which are going to be over six foot

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vinyl fence

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>> and yeah so they're going to be up and

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there's going to be dust

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>> and I think there might be another arena

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over here too

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but

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yeah I would bet that the city's going to get

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some calls in the future that they those

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neighbors complaining about it

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>> and there might be a way to address some

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of that now. I think that's the idea.

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And um

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>> Yeah.

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>> So, do you feel like that should be a condition a condition six that's put

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on there that the

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>> there's a solid fence?

274
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,079
>> Um [clears throat]

275
00:11:04,079 --> 00:11:06,240
I would not so and I'm just going to

276
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,360
speak for myself and I think Brandon,

277
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,839
you know, he he identified that there

278
00:11:11,839 --> 00:11:15,279
are different ways to look at it and I

279
00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:17,279
appreciate what Mr. Christensen and I

280
00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:18,480
just talked about. But I think it's true

281
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,360
that um whether the developer install a

282
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,800
fence or the homeowner that will buy the

283
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,640
lot and build a house there, they likely

284
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,160
would. So I think

285
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,000
somehow

286
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,079
the most fundamental ways to make that

287
00:11:34,079 --> 00:11:36,160
relationship work as well as it can.

288
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:37,839
They're going to be addressed. I think

289
00:11:37,839 --> 00:11:39,680
it just is helpful when a neighbor

290
00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:41,120
reaches out like they did.

291
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:41,519
>> Sure.

292
00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:42,880
>> To have some dialogue. And that's really

293
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:44,160
all I'd suggest right now.

294
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:45,200
>> Okay. And

295
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:46,320
>> it sounds like you're willing to reach

296
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,600
out and talk to her.

297
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,279
>> Great.

298
00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:53,839
>> Yeah. And just I don't even know that needs to be a condition of

299
00:11:53,839 --> 00:11:55,440
approval. I mean, the city council could

300
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:56,959
always consider that if they want,

301
00:11:56,959 --> 00:12:00,240
right? And I think we have this uh uh at

302
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,320
least tenatively plan to go to the city

303
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,399
council on the 21st of April. So, we

304
00:12:04,399 --> 00:12:06,720
have a couple of weeks um if that

305
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,160
schedule gets followed. And

306
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:09,920
>> so, there's no fence there right now.

307
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,519
And there's nothing keeping the person

308
00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:13,200
that owns the arena from building a

309
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,560
fence as well. Correct.

310
00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:15,360
>> True.

311
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:16,800
>> Correct.

312
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,480
>> There is a fence, but it's not a big

313
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,160
It's not a large privacy fence or

314
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,600
anything.

315
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,600
>> So, it could go both ways and neighbors

316
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,279
can work together just like they do in

317
00:12:25,279 --> 00:12:27,360
any other neighborhood. Is that what

318
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:28,720
you're saying?

319
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,440
>> Uh, that is certainly a possibility.

320
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:39,509
Yeah,

321
00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:40,959
» ideally we'd get off

322
00:12:40,959 --> 00:12:43,040
>> sensitive. We're proposing a zone change

323
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:44,880
from what was existing what has been

324
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,000
existing there

325
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,839
>> when they put the arena there and we

326
00:12:47,839 --> 00:12:49,440
want to be sensitive to their

327
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,720
>> their what they're seeing

328
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,200
>> might be impacting their current

329
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,160
situation.

330
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:57,120
>> That makes sense, too.

331
00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,360
>> Yeah. I'm just wondering about this

332
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,560
strange lot that is Could I borrow your

333
00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:03,040
pointer?

334
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:03,920
>> For sure.

335
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:08,320
>> Thank you. I'm just wondering if I I I'm

336
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,160
just wondering about this strange big

337
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:11,839
lot

338
00:13:11,839 --> 00:13:14,880
in a home that is the owner doesn't is

339
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,160
not it's not owner occupied.

340
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,040
Somebody is renting it. And I'm all for

341
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,800
renters, but why keep it in that shape?

342
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,680
Why keep it in

343
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:30,880
like all that extra property.

344
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,440
It just is a strange configuration to me

345
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,560
to all of a sudden have a backyard

346
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:40,150
on a culde-sac.

347
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,639
I it it's probably fine, but it just

348
00:13:42,639 --> 00:13:45,360
seems kind of anyway strange to me.

349
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:46,720
>> I guess I comment maybe strange, but

350
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,320
it's it's what's there right now, right?

351
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,240
It's a large thing and

352
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:51,760
>> I mean it's just what we run into as we

353
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,279
get growth. There's existing properties

354
00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:53,600
that

355
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,040
>> it's what the existing owner is probably

356
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,279
willing to sell to the the new

357
00:13:57,279 --> 00:13:58,160
applicant,

358
00:13:58,160 --> 00:13:58,800
>> I guess.

359
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,600
>> And this complies with the the

360
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:04,959
zoning he's trying to achieve,

361
00:14:04,959 --> 00:14:07,519
>> but it's well over whatif over five

362
00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:09,920
50,000 square feet.

363
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:10,639
>> Yeah.

364
00:14:10,639 --> 00:14:13,920
>> And this that lot actually matches up

365
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,079
with the neighboring this property and

366
00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:17,839
the other property over here. They're

367
00:14:17,839 --> 00:14:20,720
all animal properties,

368
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,000
>> horse properties, and similar size.

369
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,440
>> That makes sense.

370
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:30,629
>> So,

371
00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:33,125
any other comments or concerns?

372
00:14:33,125 --> 00:14:37,110
[snorts]

373
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,519
» If not, I'd entertain a motion on this

374
00:14:39,519 --> 00:14:42,639
subject, then we can move to the zoning

375
00:14:42,639 --> 00:14:47,189
part of it.

376
00:14:47,199 --> 00:14:51,920
I uh move that we approve, this is an

377
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,760
approval, Dave, is that right?

378
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,920
>> That we approve the preliminary plat for

379
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,199
the Andy Ridge subdivision

380
00:14:59,199 --> 00:15:01,920
uh based

381
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,519
on the findings and conditions.

382
00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:07,760
>> I have a motion. Do I have a second?

383
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:08,800
>> A second.

384
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,959
>> A motion second. All in favor?

385
00:15:10,959 --> 00:15:13,360
>> I. Any opposed?

386
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,760
That was uh the recommendation is

387
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,440
approved.

388
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,040
Go along with that. We'll move into our

389
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,880
next subject which is a public hearing.

390
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,240
The next two items are both public

391
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:23,760
hearings

392
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,880
and it is the Andy Ridge zone change. Uh

393
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,800
the only thing I'll add on this is so

394
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,000
the designation [clears throat]

395
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,760
for the general plan is low density

396
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,800
residential. The proposal is R12 which

397
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,480
is consistent with that. Um the

398
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,000
development review committee also looked

399
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,800
at this in March. And if we look at the

400
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:44,800
motion here, they did recommend approval

401
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,110
with the findings as written.

402
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,480
Any questions for staff before we invite

403
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,910
the applicant or go into public hearing?

404
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:04,949
Thank you.

405
00:16:04,959 --> 00:16:06,160
» Do you want to address us on this at

406
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,199
all? You don't have to.

407
00:16:09,199 --> 00:16:10,320
>> Brandon does a great job.

408
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,399
>> Great.

409
00:16:12,399 --> 00:16:13,440
>> You guys have questions and

410
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,440
>> No, we're good. We'll open it up to a

411
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,040
public hearing on this subject if

412
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,720
anybody is here to speak about the zone

413
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,360
change for the Andrew subdivision.

414
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,680
Come on up and please state your name

415
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,639
and what your comments or concerns might

416
00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:30,150
be.

417
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,959
» So, my name is Kenan Pine. I'm a

418
00:16:32,959 --> 00:16:36,880
realtor. Um, I'm the realtor that that

419
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,720
the Grovers have hired to sell this

420
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,880
property. And so I just wanted to

421
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,480
briefly just say that I do feel like uh

422
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,040
Andrade has has thought about the

423
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,600
private street that's there and that the

424
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,279
property does match those properties

425
00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:58,480
well. Um I know that that uh the Grovers

426
00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:59,839
love it there. They did actually live

427
00:16:59,839 --> 00:17:02,880
there um with their family. I sold it to

428
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:07,120
them probably 10 or 15 years ago. Um and

429
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:09,120
then they love it. uh they decided to

430
00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:11,039
keep it because

431
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:14,400
uh they were kind of a little sad about

432
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,079
selling it because they were they they

433
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:19,120
were going to just sell it. Um so they

434
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:21,919
are um I guess emotionally invested over

435
00:17:21,919 --> 00:17:25,839
there. But um anyway, I I just think

436
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:28,960
that Andre's been very good uh with the

437
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,640
neighbor. Um, I went with him on on I

438
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:33,919
don't know if he met with her more than

439
00:17:33,919 --> 00:17:36,559
once, but I I went to one of those and

440
00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:40,320
he was very um from my perspective good

441
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,160
to her and listening to what her

442
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,880
concerns were and actually changed uh

443
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,400
some things that um that were in the

444
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,320
works on that to make it better for her.

445
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,600
So hopefully she's feeling uh good about

446
00:17:53,600 --> 00:18:01,200
that situation. But um but I yeah, I do feel like it's highest and best use

447
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:02,720
for that area because you have that

448
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,720
whole new subdivision over there and

449
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,160
it'll match that. And with the driveway

450
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:09,760
staying on the front on the private

451
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,440
lane, it'll look nice and and hopefully

452
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:14,640
uh they'll be able to put some money

453
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,080
into that yard and make it look great

454
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,160
and make your city look better. But

455
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:19,919
anyway, I appreciate you guys letting me

456
00:18:19,919 --> 00:18:21,679
make a couple comments.

457
00:18:21,679 --> 00:18:23,679
>> Thanks.

458
00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:26,799
Anybody else?

459
00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:29,200
Okay, we'll close the public hearing for

460
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,039
this topic.

461
00:18:31,039 --> 00:18:32,799
Um, commissioners, do you have any

462
00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:35,990
comments?

463
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,799
» Okay, I will entertain a motion on the

464
00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:41,520
Andy Reed zone change, Andy Ridge zone

465
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,310
change. [laughter]

466
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,880
» I'll make the motion that we accept the

467
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,520
zone change as written.

468
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:52,480
Let me read.

469
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,080
>> Move to recommend approval of the

470
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,559
proposed Andy Ridge subdivision zone

471
00:18:56,559 --> 00:19:00,240
change based on those findings.

472
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:01,520
>> Great. I have a motion. Do I have a

473
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:01,840
second?

474
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:02,960
>> I'll second.

475
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,640
>> A motion second. All in favor?

476
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:05,360
>> I.

477
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:07,600
>> Any opposed?

478
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,240
Okay. So, this will then go before the

479
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:11,760
council at their next meeting for

480
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,760
approval of the zone change.

481
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,480
>> The next topic is also a public hearing.

482
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:28,230
It's the Hell's 2 lot infill.

483
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,360
Um, this one came before you, um,

484
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,520
looking at my notes back in March of

485
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,280
2023 as a town home concept. Since that

486
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,400
time, the the owner, the applicant has,

487
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,919
um, changed the proposal. Um, and we'll

488
00:19:43,919 --> 00:19:46,480
present that tonight. Um, this is the

489
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,559
location we're looking at, 208 North,

490
00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:51,840
600 East. Let's go to the next slide. Um

491
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,600
on the left you see the zoning. The area

492
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,320
is R16. On the right you see the land

493
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,400
use designation which is medium density

494
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:03,200
residential. Um what he's looking to do

495
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,600
uh in my opinion if you go back a slide

496
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,360
Ian or Josh whoever is driving sorry.

497
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:13,039
Um, in my opinion, this concept that

498
00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:16,160
he's changed to uh will will fit better

499
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,799
in the neighborhood um than the town

500
00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:21,520
homes would have. Um, existing home on

501
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,919
the property built in the 30s. Uh, per

502
00:20:23,919 --> 00:20:26,000
the county records, it sometimes they're

503
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,200
accurate, sometimes they're not, but

504
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,360
it's an older home. The applicant is

505
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,000
looking to tear that down and split the

506
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,640
property into two. Um what's unique

507
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,520
about this application is the minor plat

508
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,240
was recommended for or excuse me it was

509
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:41,760
approved by the development review

510
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,640
committee um as a standard subdivision

511
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,440
uh and the only condition was that with

512
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,760
reduced setbacks it would need this

513
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,679
infill overlay. And so let's go to the

514
00:20:51,679 --> 00:20:53,760
next slide.

515
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,280
This is showing the property. It's a

516
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,000
corner lot. Um the white home is what

517
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,320
would be removed. Let's go to the next

518
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,520
slide. This is the two lot subdivision

519
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,120
that the development review committee

520
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:07,520
looked at and approved contingent upon

521
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,039
the planning commission and city council

522
00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:12,640
action for the zoning overlay. Both of

523
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,919
these lots are over 6,000 square feet uh

524
00:21:15,919 --> 00:21:18,559
meet the dimensions and widths. Um once

525
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:20,720
again the key is the product that he

526
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,720
would like to place on it does require a

527
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,360
reduction in the setbacks which the

528
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:28,559
infill overlay um would allow for that

529
00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:30,720
modification. Let's go to the next

530
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,320
slide. So, this is showing the two um

531
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,640
product home types that he's he's

532
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,200
proposing to build. Um the caveat with

533
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,840
the infill overlay is we would expect

534
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,960
them to follow the building elevations

535
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,559
and plans as presented and approved. Um

536
00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:51,200
and so looking at the staff report, the

537
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,440
north uh setback, they're looking to

538
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,559
reduce that uh to 16 feet. Um along 200

539
00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:01,520
north uh where both garages

540
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,120
uh face the street, they're looking to

541
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,320
reduce that from 25 to 20.

542
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,080
Um and then the interior side setbacks

543
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,120
are proposed at 7 ft and on the corner

544
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:16,480
um that complies with the 15 ft uh

545
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,240
required by code. Um house on the left

546
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,919
uh

547
00:22:21,919 --> 00:22:25,280
is uh 30

548
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,960
I have it in my notes over there. One of

549
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,200
them's 3200 ft and the other one is just

550
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,480
under 3500 square feet. So they they are

551
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,400
well sized. Um let's go to the next

552
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,000
slide.

553
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,960
This is the corner lot uh basement

554
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,360
upstairs twocar garage with twocar

555
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:44,320
driveway. Next slide. Um these are the

556
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,440
po proposed building elevations. Um the

557
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,640
applicant did uh discuss with our

558
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,159
community development director a couple

559
00:22:52,159 --> 00:22:55,840
times as far as as uh materials and look

560
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,760
and we feel that they've they've done a

561
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,720
good job in in updating these elevations

562
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,679
uh for presentation to you. Um, you've

563
00:23:03,679 --> 00:23:05,200
got sighting, you've got a brick or

564
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,400
excuse me, on this one you have a stone

565
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,760
Wayne's coat. Let's go to the next

566
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,799
slide. This is the elevations that would

567
00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:15,600
uh face the uh interior side. So the the

568
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,520
elevation on the top that would be

569
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,840
between the two homes and then the rear

570
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,080
the north elevation would be uh the

571
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,960
backyard. Let's go to the next slide. So

572
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,880
this is the interior lot that's not on

573
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,799
the corner. Um, next slide.

574
00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:32,559
Basement on this one as well. Next

575
00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:35,360
slide. Um, this one's got vertical board

576
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,640
and batten uh and a brick Wayne's coat.

577
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,840
Um, next slide. You can see they've

578
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,080
carried it around all four elevations on

579
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,919
this one. Uh, next slide. So, once

580
00:23:47,919 --> 00:23:49,600
again, the reason why they need the

581
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,200
infill um is for the modified setbacks.

582
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,039
Um

583
00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:56,640
the development review committee when

584
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,039
they did look at it, they feel uh as

585
00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:00,559
it's written here in their recommended

586
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:03,360
motion that it it fits in well with the

587
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:04,880
area meets the intent of the infill

588
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,440
overlay zone. Um and then the third

589
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,600
condition uh there is the expectation

590
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,799
that these elevations uh would be

591
00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:15,200
followed as presented.

592
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,200
Any questions for staff on this item?

593
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,279
So between the two uh homes there is a

594
00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:26,559
14 foot there's 14 feet between the two

595
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:26,960
>> Yes.

596
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,799
>> houses. 7 ft on each lot.

597
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:29,679
>> Yeah.

598
00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:31,440
>> Okay. And on between it and their

599
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,760
neighbor to the east they're set back is

600
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,840
7 feet. Where can you pull up the map to

601
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:36,799
show what is the

602
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:37,120
>> Yeah.

603
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,520
>> The neighbors where is their next

604
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,440
building located a garage or the side of

605
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,200
their house? How far over is it?

606
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,480
>> Uh we can pull that up.

607
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,760
So their house is here. Driveway here,

608
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:56,149
garage back here.

609
00:24:56,159 --> 00:24:57,840
» Is there any concern with where the

610
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,880
driveway for the furthest west house

611
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,760
will fall as in relation to the corner?

612
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,000
>> I believe it has to be 34 feet off the

613
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,799
corner.

614
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:10,799
>> So, you usually measure, if I'm correct,

615
00:25:10,799 --> 00:25:12,559
Josh, from the curb, [clears throat]

616
00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:16,880
you go in 34 and that's as close. It

617
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,159
just pretty close to that looking at the

618
00:25:20,159 --> 00:25:21,360
>> the site layout.

619
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:24,000
>> Yeah.

620
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,799
>> So, where are the front doors for these

621
00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:28,640
two homes? If you go back to

622
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,120
>> So, this interior lot would be facing

623
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,840
south and then this corner lot, the

624
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,600
garage would be facing south, but the

625
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,600
front door would be facing west as it

626
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,440
currently is.

627
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,279
>> And and so the really the backyard for

628
00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:45,200
that the

629
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,240
corner house really is on the side and

630
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,120
not the functional the functional

631
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:53,520
backyard would be probably that area.

632
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,549
>> Yeah.

633
00:25:56,559 --> 00:25:58,320
» Um

634
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,080
how are the setbacks compared to the

635
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,310
neighbors?

636
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:05,440
» Which neighbor?

637
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,320
>> The one to

638
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,559
>> we didn't necessarily do an analysis of

639
00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:12,950
the neighbors setbacks.

640
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,559
» Can we pull up the map to look at the

641
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:16,640
neighbors?

642
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,240
Which one are you concerned with?

643
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:19,840
>> Uh, I'm not concerned. I'm just

644
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,400
interested east.

645
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,360
So, is that 645?

646
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:30,230
Yeah, that one there.

647
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:31,840
» So,

648
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,200
>> I think we'll have to pull up an

649
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,240
internal map if you're

650
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:35,840
>> they had seven feet from this property

651
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,520
line to the house.

652
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:38,640
>> What they're showing,

653
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,559
>> right? I'm more looking at what the

654
00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:43,520
setback is from the street from 200

655
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:44,559
north. Yeah.

656
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:46,159
>> Yeah. Give us a second and we can pull

657
00:26:46,159 --> 00:26:48,080
up a map that we can do measurements off

658
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,039
of.

659
00:26:51,039 --> 00:26:52,320
>> I'd be [clears throat] interested to the

660
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,000
also in the house to the north.

661
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:56,640
>> Okay.

662
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,760
>> Just if there's a big difference, but it

663
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,520
looks like it probably wouldn't be a big

664
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:02,320
difference.

665
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,320
>> Okay. Yeah, we can pull that up. Is

666
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,240
there any other questions for staff?

667
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:07,919
>> I think you covered the one I talked to

668
00:27:07,919 --> 00:27:09,600
you earlier because parking I know if if

669
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,000
you've been in that area, it's tight. So

670
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,520
I my biggest question was parking, but

671
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,520
if we got two car garage and driveway

672
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,520
for two, it makes me feel a lot better.

673
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:17,840
So

674
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:18,720
>> yes, that's correct.

675
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,200
>> The driveway 20 feet that is enough for

676
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,520
a car, probably two. So they could fit

677
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,440
four conceivably off-road.

678
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:26,480
>> Yeah. And

679
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,159
>> as everyone knows, they're using the

680
00:27:28,159 --> 00:27:29,760
garage for probably storage, right? So

681
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,600
maybe we're still two.

682
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:32,320
>> I'll let the

683
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,159
>> This is a 3,000 foot home. This isn't a

684
00:27:34,159 --> 00:27:34,720
town home.

685
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,640
>> No, they're questioning the use of the

686
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:37,679
garage

687
00:27:37,679 --> 00:27:39,120
>> for storage or cars.

688
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:39,840
>> Cars.

689
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,760
>> Ideally cars.

690
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,000
and as there's basements too. So

691
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,679
>> yeah,

692
00:27:45,679 --> 00:27:47,520
>> the applicant is here. We'd love to

693
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,840
invite him up to

694
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,200
>> any questions you've got if there's

695
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,919
nothing else for staff at this time. And

696
00:27:53,919 --> 00:27:55,279
oh, looks like we've got it.

697
00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:56,080
>> Yeah, sure.

698
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,549
>> Thank you.

699
00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:02,720
» So I think Commissioner Warick was

700
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,200
asking what is this setback here from

701
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,520
the sidewalk to the house and then the

702
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,679
same on this property here.

703
00:28:11,679 --> 00:28:16,789
So 33

704
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:18,799
» is it different to the

705
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:20,080
>> front? Yeah. Right there.

706
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,440
>> Yeah.

707
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,120
>> Would be

708
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:24,480
>> 20.

709
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,440
>> That one's at 22. Well, 20.

710
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,200
>> So about the same.

711
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,799
>> So do you count it from that porch or do

712
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:32,320
you count it from the

713
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,000
>> closest closest

714
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,279
>> piece, right?

715
00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:38,000
>> Yeah. So let's try that porch on the top

716
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,480
of the north property. So 19 on the

717
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,039
porch and then Josh, what is the porch

718
00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:52,630
from here?

719
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,480
» And so then going back to what are the

720
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,399
setbacks we're looking at?

721
00:28:56,399 --> 00:29:00,480
>> You were 17 and a half this direction,

722
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,039
then 20 in the front around the

723
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:06,640
>> Yeah. So 20 along 200 north. uh almost

724
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,440
18 feet on 600 East.

725
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,960
>> And didn't you say it's only they're

726
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,919
only required at 15 feet on that?

727
00:29:15,919 --> 00:29:18,080
>> So they're well with

728
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:18,960
>> within the

729
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,000
>> Yeah.

730
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,320
>> No change to the sidewalk. That would

731
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:23,840
continue to be the same size and

732
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:24,640
dimension.

733
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:32,710
>> Correct.

734
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,520
>> Thank you.

735
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,240
want to come up and address us, please

736
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,399
come state your name and tell us a

737
00:29:40,399 --> 00:29:48,310
little bit about your project.

738
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:49,840
» My name is Travis Hells. I'm a little

739
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,320
nervous. Um, so the project, this was

740
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,080
originally my grandma and grandpa's

741
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,480
property. Um, I bought up the house on

742
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,480
the interior lot we're building for my

743
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,320
daughter that's here, um, for their

744
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,039
first home. The second home we are

745
00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:05,039
tentatively going to keep for my son

746
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:07,440
that's currently on a mission. Um we may

747
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,520
end up selling it, but one of the we

748
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,000
don't know yet. Um we looked at putting

749
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,840
a forplex on it. Um it was two stories

750
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,000
and I kept driving up there thinking

751
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,919
everybody would hate me um because it

752
00:30:19,919 --> 00:30:22,320
would have towered over everything. Um

753
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,720
so we played around with this and came

754
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,960
up with this and uh thought that it

755
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,679
would fit in. Um,

756
00:30:29,679 --> 00:30:31,600
we had it originally where we were going

757
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,039
to put the garage on the exterior lot

758
00:30:35,039 --> 00:30:36,799
facing the other way, but when we came

759
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:39,120
here the first time, they asked us not

760
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,880
to make it look like a corner lot. Um,

761
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,520
so we tried to make it look like there

762
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,120
was kind of two fronts with the garage

763
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,159
door and the front door. I It's still a

764
00:30:50,159 --> 00:30:51,919
corner lot, so but we did the best we

765
00:30:51,919 --> 00:30:54,000
could do to make it look right. Um, but

766
00:30:54,000 --> 00:31:00,950
yeah, that's what we're doing. So, Any

767
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,600
questions for the applicant?

768
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:04,080
>> Great.

769
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:04,480
>> Okay.

770
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,440
>> Thank you.

771
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,039
>> commissioners. Any comments? Any

772
00:31:09,039 --> 00:31:11,520
discussion points you want to go over?

773
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,760
>> I I like that we went over the setbacks.

774
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,600
I I think the numbers are reasonable

775
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,679
within what's there in the neighborhood.

776
00:31:17,679 --> 00:31:19,840
Um I actually kind of have a question

777
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,760
for Mike. I mean, I know you have family

778
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:22,960
in that area. You feel good about the

779
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:23,679
parking situation?

780
00:31:23,679 --> 00:31:25,679
>> Oh, I do. Yeah. Once Brandon cleared it

781
00:31:25,679 --> 00:31:27,279
up for because if you've been down

782
00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:28,799
there, it's tight. But if you're going

783
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:30,640
to fit four cars in there, that's that's

784
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,240
a lot better than what it was. So, yeah,

785
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:32,960
>> I like it.

786
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,320
>> And and I I'm I'm just going to say

787
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,159
generally I like I mean these are some

788
00:31:36,159 --> 00:31:37,840
larger places making good use of the

789
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,159
land. I actually really like that quite

790
00:31:40,159 --> 00:31:43,440
a bit in that old area. You like more

791
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,440
mature established area. The variety

792
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:46,559
there is actually pretty good. I've seen

793
00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:48,080
that in a couple places in town and I

794
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,159
think it fits quite well. I feel very

795
00:31:50,159 --> 00:31:51,200
good about what I'm saying.

796
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,279
>> I I really like this design. Much better

797
00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:55,440
than than a town home or a duplex. It's

798
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:56,559
two nice homes.

799
00:31:56,559 --> 00:31:56,880
>> Yes.

800
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:57,760
>> In that area

801
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,880
>> because again, it's probably more

802
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,279
established homes around there with

803
00:32:03,279 --> 00:32:04,240
people that have been there a while.

804
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:05,919
They'll be happy that it's not

805
00:32:05,919 --> 00:32:06,799
>> they're going to love not having the

806
00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:09,279
duplexes. Yes. Yes. I did hear that

807
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:11,039
>> with people moving in now. Yeah.

808
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:12,480
>> Every

809
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,960
>> And these these prop this these house I

810
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:15,919
think would add a lot to the

811
00:32:15,919 --> 00:32:18,480
neighborhood. So

812
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,000
>> I like it. Good.

813
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,240
>> I think so, too. I think the only thing

814
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,240
that uh that I I I think the elevations

815
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,880
on this on this home are pretty good. I

816
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,320
think it's a little bit boring in the

817
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,240
front, but I think it like with the roof

818
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,760
line there. I love the elevations on

819
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,880
this on this one here. But I think that

820
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,080
I can't complain too loudly about it.

821
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:46,640
Anyway,

822
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,279
>> you're going to talk quiet then? Anyway,

823
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:50,080
that's

824
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,480
>> So, this is what would be facing that

825
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,480
corner street

826
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,679
>> facing sixth or second.

827
00:32:57,679 --> 00:32:59,760
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think that'll be great.

828
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,960
And it's so awesome to have families

829
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,880
come in. And that's kind of the thing

830
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,679
these days is smaller lots and a decent

831
00:33:07,679 --> 00:33:10,159
sized home on a lot that's you can do

832
00:33:10,159 --> 00:33:13,760
some good things in.

833
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,120
>> Okay. So, if there's no other comments,

834
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,240
I would entertain a motion.

835
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:17,360
>> You need a public hearing.

836
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,600
>> Oh, public hearing. Thank you so much.

837
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,120
Is there we'll open the public hearing.

838
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,600
Is there anybody here to talk on this

839
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,760
topic?

840
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,598
Please state your name. And

841
00:33:27,598 --> 00:33:28,000
[clears throat]

842
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,000
>> uh my name is Corey Fur. I own the house

843
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,679
just to the north.

844
00:33:31,679 --> 00:33:35,120
>> Um and I mean as far as a a plan, we are

845
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,000
way happier with this idea than like the

846
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,799
forplex thing which was only rumored um

847
00:33:40,799 --> 00:33:43,679
as far as we were concerned. But um I

848
00:33:43,679 --> 00:33:45,919
don't know that I have any concerns for

849
00:33:45,919 --> 00:33:47,919
myself. I was I was interested to see

850
00:33:47,919 --> 00:33:52,720
kind of how close the the houses were to

851
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,559
the property line and and how much

852
00:33:54,559 --> 00:33:57,200
distance between the two houses. And I I

853
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,480
think that's okay. Uh my one question

854
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,519
was um the house to the east

855
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:05,200
um where they where it's so close to

856
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,279
that property line, there's those giant

857
00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:11,280
willow trees um that you can see that

858
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,159
are kind of hanging over that property

859
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:17,440
line. And I know that's not anyone's

860
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,839
fault, but I know the owner of that home

861
00:34:19,839 --> 00:34:23,440
is going to be um a little concerned

862
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,280
about impacting the health of those

863
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:30,560
trees. So I I um that is I think my only

864
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,960
comment that um if if the plans impact

865
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,440
those trees in any way, what that impact

866
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,648
is and and what can be done to kind of

867
00:34:39,648 --> 00:34:43,200
[snorts] find a happy medium. Mhm.

868
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,320
>> So that's it.

869
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:45,200
>> Well, thank you.

870
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,440
>> Thanks.

871
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,200
>> Is there a way to estimate the how that

872
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,919
canopy of that tree

873
00:34:53,919 --> 00:34:56,639
would go over the site? Just

874
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:58,240
>> we could go to the street view real

875
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:00,960
fast. And what I do like is the house

876
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,520
design on that interior lot. That

877
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,520
souththeast corner is open because the

878
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,480
garage is pushed to the west. Uh anytime

879
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,440
you have issues with trees, it usually

880
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:14,960
in this case where it's between two

881
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,440
properties, it becomes a civil matter.

882
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,119
Um and sometimes uh

883
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:26,400
you have to go to lengths to show that person's actions actually were what

884
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,280
caused the damage to the tree. And so I

885
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,440
think I would probably turn to the

886
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,359
property owner and just say, you know,

887
00:35:33,359 --> 00:35:34,960
kind of keep in touch with the neighbor

888
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,720
and

889
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:38,960
>> and show the house.

890
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,190
>> Go back two slides.

891
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,520
» So how does that work if you're if a

892
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:50,390
tree if

893
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,109
» So the one tree is obviously gone.

894
00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:57,920
» The pine tree is actually property,

895
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:58,640
>> right?

896
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,400
>> And then the other two trees, like they

897
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,160
overhang my property by probably 15 to

898
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:05,839
20 feet and they're they've never

899
00:36:05,839 --> 00:36:08,560
maintained them. Like my grandma and

900
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,560
aunt lived there as long as I can

901
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,560
remember.

902
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,000
So

903
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,480
>> yeah, that's my question is is what are

904
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,119
the if you have a tree hanging over your

905
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:22,560
lot, can you just be like, "Sorry,

906
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:23,680
I'm

907
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,160
>> Yeah. trimming your tree back that's

908
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:26,960
over my lot.

909
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,000
>> Yeah. Well, I think it's a good point

910
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,599
where the driveways on the other side. I

911
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:31,119
mean, there you can see from the picture

912
00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:34,079
it will, but I don't think it'll

913
00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:34,640
>> go back.

914
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,599
>> You'd expect with a 7 foot setback that

915
00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:39,040
you you'd probably be excavating to

916
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,119
within 5T of the property line, I would

917
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:41,520
think.

918
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:42,320
>> Yep.

919
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,160
>> So, you'd have 5T to the property line

920
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,320
plus whatever you have between the

921
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:47,119
property line.

922
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:48,640
>> Yeah, that's the picture I was wanting

923
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,640
right there. looking that that tree is

924
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,119
the canopy of it is probably

925
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:54,400
in this area, right?

926
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:55,200
>> Yeah,

927
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,560
>> I'd agree.

928
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,280
>> So, you're not going to be too close to

929
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,359
the roots with your excavation here.

930
00:37:01,359 --> 00:37:01,680
>> Yeah,

931
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,040
>> but you are going to be trimming back

932
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,560
that tree, I imagine, quite a bit.

933
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,000
>> There's another tree set back

934
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,839
>> in the back behind it.

935
00:37:07,839 --> 00:37:08,720
>> Okay. I couldn't see that in the

936
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:10,720
picture. trees. The one the front one is

937
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:13,839
much bigger, but I mean our I even if we

938
00:37:13,839 --> 00:37:15,599
don't do this, our intent is to cut the

939
00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:17,680
trees back because they're overhanging

940
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,079
our property and killing our grass and

941
00:37:20,079 --> 00:37:21,680
we can't do anything. So our our intent

942
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,119
is to cut them at the property line,

943
00:37:23,119 --> 00:37:24,000
>> right?

944
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,440
>> And and to be clear, I don't I don't

945
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,119
have a stake in the in the game. I just

946
00:37:27,119 --> 00:37:28,960
know that they are going to be

947
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,800
>> concerned about it. So I just wanted to

948
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,040
>> Sure.

949
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,680
>> Great. Thanks for bringing that up.

950
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,640
Any other

951
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:39,359
comments?

952
00:37:39,359 --> 00:37:41,440
>> I think this is a fantastic idea.

953
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,000
>> I do too. I like it. I think it's a good

954
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,520
old project right there. Uh,

955
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,040
of course there will be change. Probably

956
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:50,160
will be things that people don't like,

957
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,440
especially during the construction time,

958
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,359
but

959
00:37:53,359 --> 00:37:55,839
that happens. I'll entertain a motion if

960
00:37:55,839 --> 00:37:58,960
anybody wants to present one.

961
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:00,800
>> That was the public hearing.

962
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:01,359
>> Public hearing.

963
00:38:01,359 --> 00:38:04,000
>> I'll close the public hearing. Wow. and

964
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,079
then we'll go to a motion.

965
00:38:06,079 --> 00:38:08,640
>> I'll make a motion. I move uh to

966
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,480
recommend approval of the proposed Hails

967
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,720
two lot infill zone change based on the

968
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:15,040
findings and um following findings and

969
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,480
subject to the following conditions as

970
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,920
noted.

971
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,200
>> Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a

972
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:19,760
second?

973
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:20,960
>> I'll second.

974
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,640
>> Motion second. All in favor?

975
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:23,440
>> I.

976
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,440
>> Any opposed?

977
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,560
Okay. Motion carries.

978
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,560
Um that closes that section of it. Our

979
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,720
next item of business is a title 15

980
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:36,720
amendment. This is also a public

981
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:38,400
hearing.

982
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:39,760
It looks like Dave is going to present

983
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:46,790
to us on this amendment.

984
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,320
Mr. Chairman, thank you. I think the

985
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,240
language that's proposed to be added to

986
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:52,079
Title 15 in this case really speaks for

987
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:55,520
itself. Um, of course, what we're

988
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,839
talking about here relative to churches

989
00:38:57,839 --> 00:39:00,560
or houses houses houses houses houses of worship, we're not talking

990
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,240
about any particular denomination or

991
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,560
faith or anything like that at all. Yet,

992
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,079
at the same time, I don't want to come

993
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:09,680
across as being koi in any way. Um, this

994
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,760
is proposed by Spanish work city staff

995
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,480
in advance of receiving what we think is

996
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,720
going to be an application that would be

997
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:18,400
submitted by the Church of Jesus Christ

998
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:19,920
of Latter Day Saints for a big building

999
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,240
like they like to build. we understand

1000
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:25,839
on the east bench. So, we've had enough

1001
00:39:25,839 --> 00:39:27,680
correspondence with them thus far to

1002
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,119
know that uh they'd like to build that

1003
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:34,320
building larger than what currently is

1004
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,640
allowed. So, in this case,

1005
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,240
>> larger or taller?

1006
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:38,880
>> Both.

1007
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,440
When I say larger, I guess uh

1008
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,560
taller in two ways. Um we don't limit

1009
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,040
the square footage, which would maybe be

1010
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,560
one way to look at larger. Um, you can

1011
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:55,119
see from the language that's proposed

1012
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:56,640
that

1013
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,160
we're looking to limit the height of

1014
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,560
what can be built

1015
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,040
um, in two different ways while at the

1016
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,839
same time allowing for more height than

1017
00:40:07,839 --> 00:40:10,160
what today the code expressly would

1018
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,320
permit.

1019
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,079
If that makes sense. I'll talk more

1020
00:40:14,079 --> 00:40:16,800
about that and maybe fill in any gaps

1021
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,280
that I created there. Um I want to

1022
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,720
mention first of all just kind of by way

1023
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:24,480
of the approach in terms of um

1024
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,400
suggesting that the code be made more

1025
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,480
permissible uh there are a couple of

1026
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:34,720
parts to the proposal. One is to create

1027
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:39,359
a new uh use effectively that would be

1028
00:40:39,359 --> 00:40:42,079
allowed in different residential zones

1029
00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:45,599
in the city. And that use

1030
00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:49,200
simply titled churches taller than 35

1031
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,040
feet.

1032
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,040
Um which incidentally today the maximum

1033
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,040
height as is defined in our zoning code

1034
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,480
for churches is just that 35 ft.

1035
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,560
And incidentally it's not uncommon to

1036
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,720
see other architectural features

1037
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:08,480
associated with churches that are taller

1038
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,560
than 35 ft. I think in fact if you

1039
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,400
looked at most of the buildings that

1040
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:13,520
have been built over the course of the

1041
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,680
past 20 years in Spanish Fork a lot of

1042
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,240
them might approach

1043
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:21,520
35 feet in height on the roof line of

1044
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,359
the building and that a lot of times

1045
00:41:23,359 --> 00:41:26,160
there's a something that stands beyond

1046
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,640
that in terms of height steeples I think

1047
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,800
most commonly is what they're called and

1048
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,480
I think those oftentimes end up being

1049
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,119
about 70 feet tall

1050
00:41:35,119 --> 00:41:39,280
um so in this case uh the ultimate

1051
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,079
provisions would allow for

1052
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:46,240
the structures to be as tall as

1053
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:49,520
80 feet to the roof line.

1054
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:50,640
>> So, can I just get a little bit of

1055
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,960
clarification? So, you're creating a new

1056
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,440
um subject use for structures over 35 ft

1057
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,839
because our existing one would cap that

1058
00:42:01,839 --> 00:42:03,599
at 35 ft.

1059
00:42:03,599 --> 00:42:04,400
>> Exactly.

1060
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,079
>> Yep. And this is in residential zones.

1061
00:42:08,079 --> 00:42:10,640
>> And this would only apply in residential

1062
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:11,839
zones. Exactly. Y

1063
00:42:11,839 --> 00:42:12,480
>> zones.

1064
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:12,800
>> Yep.

1065
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,400
>> So in commercial zone, they'd be fine.

1066
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,319
They could build it.

1067
00:42:16,319 --> 00:42:18,319
>> Um

1068
00:42:18,319 --> 00:42:20,800
I would want to just double check that,

1069
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,680
but I think you're right. Yeah. Because

1070
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,800
right now we don't limit the height in

1071
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,839
zoning districts by use of the property

1072
00:42:29,839 --> 00:42:31,599
in most cases that I can think of at

1073
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:33,680
least. So you're right. in other zoning

1074
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,079
districts. For example, I believe in uh

1075
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:37,839
our commercial two zone, for example,

1076
00:42:37,839 --> 00:42:40,000
the maximum height is 45 ft.

1077
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:40,960
>> 48t.

1078
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,319
>> 48 ft. So, in that case, make it go to

1079
00:42:44,319 --> 00:42:47,119
48t. Um, if somebody wanted to build a

1080
00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:49,119
church, I don't know if we But I'd have

1081
00:42:49,119 --> 00:42:53,119
to say this talking about this use. Um,

1082
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:54,880
I don't believe churches are allowed in

1083
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:56,480
a lot of our non-residential zones.

1084
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,119
That's another thing that would would

1085
00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:01,119
come into play by way of where somebody

1086
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:03,200
could build something

1087
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,119
as big as what we're talking about here

1088
00:43:05,119 --> 00:43:06,880
tonight.

1089
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,720
Um,

1090
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:10,480
did I answer your question?

1091
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:11,920
>> I was just clarifying. I That's what I

1092
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:12,800
understood. I just want to make sure

1093
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,400
that I was understanding that correctly.

1094
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,800
>> Okay. So, um, it would allow for up to

1095
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,839
80 feet to the roof line, which if you

1096
00:43:21,839 --> 00:43:23,280
were to look at maybe a structure like

1097
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:24,319
what we're talking about from a

1098
00:43:24,319 --> 00:43:26,240
distance, that would be the the bulk of

1099
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:28,560
the building. And then extending up

1100
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,960
beyond that height here, you know,

1101
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,400
whether somebody called it a steeple or

1102
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,520
a tower or couple of any one of a number

1103
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,440
of different types of features, they

1104
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:43,280
could uh conceivably be as tall as

1105
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,800
200 feet. um

1106
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,040
provided that those features are

1107
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,520
constructed in such a way that we could

1108
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:52,960
deal with that from a firefighting

1109
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,680
perspective. Um so we have a materials

1110
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,400
requirement that would go with that um

1111
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,319
for those features, anything that at

1112
00:44:00,319 --> 00:44:03,280
least would be taller than 70 feet and

1113
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,359
the 70 ft ties to what currently we have

1114
00:44:05,359 --> 00:44:07,680
in the community if that makes sense. So

1115
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,359
that delta between what currently is

1116
00:44:09,359 --> 00:44:13,200
allowed and what is proposed with this.

1117
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:20,160
Um, now that's the language in terms of uh the change in terms of what would

1118
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:21,839
be allowed

1119
00:44:21,839 --> 00:44:25,359
from what somebody could do today and

1120
00:44:25,359 --> 00:44:26,880
what somebody could do with this

1121
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:28,400
proposal.

1122
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:29,680
But I appreciated Commissioner Warner

1123
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,880
bringing up uh earlier tonight maybe the

1124
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,000
difference between a conditional use and

1125
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,240
a use subject to condition. So in this

1126
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:40,480
case, as proposed at least, churches

1127
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,960
taller than 35 ft

1128
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,000
uh would then become a use subject to

1129
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,720
condition. So somebody could only take

1130
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:50,560
advantage of those provisions to allow

1131
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,319
for bigger buildings if the project

1132
00:44:54,319 --> 00:44:57,280
involved a lottery parcel that was

1133
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,440
larger than 8 acres in size, uh with the

1134
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,880
structure being at least 65,000 square

1135
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,040
feet in size.

1136
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,760
And um then we have the additional

1137
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,000
provision that talks about the materials

1138
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,079
that would need to be used on that

1139
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:16,720
steeple part if it's any taller than 70

1140
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:20,880
ft. So provided that

1141
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,960
you know first condition that the site

1142
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,920
is 8 acres in size. The next condition

1143
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:27,440
provided that the building itself has

1144
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,680
65,000 square feet which incidentally is

1145
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,119
not the footprint of the building but

1146
00:45:31,119 --> 00:45:33,200
the total square footage of the

1147
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:34,800
building.

1148
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,680
and uh you know that that other

1149
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,079
condition relative to the materials on

1150
00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:43,760
anything taller than 70 ft is met,

1151
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,440
somebody would be able to get a building

1152
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,760
permit for that structure essentially by

1153
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,920
right and that means they wouldn't need

1154
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:51,920
to come to the planning commission.

1155
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,920
There wouldn't be a public hearing.

1156
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,599
there wouldn't be an opportunity to

1157
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:58,079
impose you know maybe sight specific

1158
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:00,480
conditions on a project and that type of

1159
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,359
a thing which would be the case if it

1160
00:46:03,359 --> 00:46:05,680
was simply listed as a use subject to

1161
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,160
condition. So the difference there being

1162
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,440
use is subject to conditions. Um there

1163
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,280
aren't the prescribed conditions like

1164
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,680
what we have here where it's simply a

1165
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,280
matter of if you meet these conditions,

1166
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,520
you get the permit, things are a little

1167
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,680
bit um

1168
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,280
less defined and maybe less predictable

1169
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,920
with a conditional use. And with

1170
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,040
conditional uses, the planning

1171
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:30,400
commission is the land use authority

1172
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,520
that that grants those.

1173
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,359
Does that help? So when that come so

1174
00:46:35,359 --> 00:46:37,520
when it comes before us they they are

1175
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,880
looking for a conditional use permit. We

1176
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,520
look to see if it makes sense in the

1177
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,800
area. We talk about why

1178
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,359
all of that. But when we're changing

1179
00:46:49,359 --> 00:46:52,800
this in title 15 use subject to

1180
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,319
conditions

1181
00:46:54,319 --> 00:46:56,640
adding this makes it so it won't come

1182
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,359
before us to get permits. This is what's

1183
00:46:59,359 --> 00:47:01,359
allowed.

1184
00:47:01,359 --> 00:47:03,839
I'm going to adjust one slight thing

1185
00:47:03,839 --> 00:47:05,040
that you said [clears throat] or maybe

1186
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:06,400
just suggest something that's a little

1187
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,599
bit different. If you're talking about a

1188
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:11,920
conditional use, it's not a matter of

1189
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:13,920
whether or not that gets approved. And

1190
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,400
there's a lot of misunderstanding

1191
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,280
um throughout public bodies all over the

1192
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,520
place in terms of what conditional use

1193
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,280
means, which is why legal councils at

1194
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:26,720
all different levels have suggested that

1195
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:29,520
cities don't have conditional uses. they

1196
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,920
are the source of litigation

1197
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,079
um at least occasionally

1198
00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:35,839
um because of misunderstandings and that

1199
00:47:35,839 --> 00:47:37,920
type of a thing. What a conditional use

1200
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:39,839
means is that if you feel like there's a

1201
00:47:39,839 --> 00:47:42,160
need with a particular proposal to

1202
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,359
impose conditions that are reasonable on

1203
00:47:45,359 --> 00:47:50,000
a project to mitigate the impact that project has on something else

1204
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,640
neighbors maybe the community at large

1205
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:54,400
uh you as a land use authority would

1206
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,960
have the ability to do that. Um, so when

1207
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,160
we talk about conditional use um,

1208
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,839
requests,

1209
00:48:01,839 --> 00:48:02,720
that's what we're talking about

1210
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:04,160
typically as staff is what needs to

1211
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,680
happen with this particular property to

1212
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,319
make it not adversely impact neighbors.

1213
00:48:10,319 --> 00:48:12,079
Um, which would be one approach that

1214
00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:14,640
could be taken here in this particular

1215
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,720
case. I think that would be a mistake.

1216
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:18,560
Um, I think this can certainly be

1217
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,680
handled more uh, from the administrative

1218
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:23,200
perspective. I think it's easy to

1219
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,720
understand what the intent is with the

1220
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:28,079
particular proposal that we're talking

1221
00:48:28,079 --> 00:48:34,960
about in terms of size and I think it's um easy to anticipate what other

1222
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,960
impacts will be uh with the project and

1223
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,040
we as staff are working with um the

1224
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:46,559
property owners engineers for example to address for example just traffic and

1225
00:48:46,559 --> 00:48:48,720
other things that come with this kind of

1226
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:50,640
a use. Um, and

1227
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,160
>> but Dave, you're you're talking about a

1228
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,240
particular case

1229
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:55,200
>> right now.

1230
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,359
>> We're talking about Title 15 adjustment,

1231
00:48:57,359 --> 00:48:59,760
which is not a particular case. It's for

1232
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,680
a citywide change.

1233
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,760
>> I would say the same would be applicable

1234
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,839
with any project that had 8 acres in

1235
00:49:05,839 --> 00:49:08,160
size that wanted to do a 65,000 foot

1236
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:09,680
building. So that's

1237
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:10,559
>> the church.

1238
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:12,720
>> That's my And that exactly that's what

1239
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:15,760
we're talking about. Yeah.

1240
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:16,400
Um,

1241
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,559
>> so this exception

1242
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:21,359
is only for churches.

1243
00:49:21,359 --> 00:49:22,960
>> Yes.

1244
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,559
>> Churches taller than 35 ft.

1245
00:49:24,559 --> 00:49:25,839
>> Only for churches

1246
00:49:25,839 --> 00:49:27,680
>> and only because I want to be clear

1247
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,400
about the phrasiology. For me, exception

1248
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,119
just means something different. So, I

1249
00:49:33,119 --> 00:49:34,960
would not call this an exception, but

1250
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:36,480
it's [clears throat] something that, and

1251
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,119
maybe back to your point,

1252
00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:40,480
not that we anticipate that there's

1253
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,160
going to be a run now of, you know,

1254
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:43,359
religious [snorts] institutions that

1255
00:49:43,359 --> 00:49:45,839
want to mimic this, but this would apply

1256
00:49:45,839 --> 00:49:49,680
elsewhere and isn't isolated just to

1257
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:50,960
>> my my concerns, I don't I don't know

1258
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,640
what Sean's concern was. My concern with

1259
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,319
it is not having site plan oversight on

1260
00:49:56,319 --> 00:49:59,760
that is a concern to me. If this goes in

1261
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,839
eight acres or not, you put a building

1262
00:50:01,839 --> 00:50:04,240
the size of a hotel next to somebody's

1263
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:07,440
with a 200 foot

1264
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,000
steeple on it, then

1265
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:11,359
existing homeowners are going to be

1266
00:50:11,359 --> 00:50:13,119
concerned. And we take time to talk

1267
00:50:13,119 --> 00:50:16,160
about trees and 7 foot setbacks and

1268
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:17,680
things like that on properties. And here

1269
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,440
we're going to put an 80 foot tall

1270
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,520
structure with a taller

1271
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,319
uh structure on its roof. who knows

1272
00:50:26,319 --> 00:50:28,960
where on an eight on an 8 acre property

1273
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,720
with all the traffic congestion which is

1274
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:33,040
the other biggest concern we have in

1275
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,640
this body. Um I just see that as a

1276
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,800
concern I'd like to have I would like

1277
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,000
the city not so much this this body this

1278
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,240
body included to have more oversight

1279
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:46,880
over that or to have more say in the

1280
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,160
matter. I don't know if we'd ever have

1281
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:49,920
oversight but say in the matter of where

1282
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:51,760
things are located and how it functions

1283
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,440
in our community

1284
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,960
>> to be able to review

1285
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:02,400
plans and have a presentation, etc.

1286
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,200
Sounds I I don't disagree.

1287
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,359
>> I mean, I trust I generally trust the

1288
00:51:07,359 --> 00:51:10,480
entity that we're really making this

1289
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,319
change for,

1290
00:51:12,319 --> 00:51:13,680
>> but yet I mean I just

1291
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,440
>> there's possibility for other entities

1292
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,960
to do the same. To be clear, this

1293
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,680
>> I don't I don't care what the entity is

1294
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:20,400
that

1295
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:25,440
>> there are certain instances where the churches had things of

1296
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,040
It's impacted the neighborhoods, right?

1297
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:28,000
And it's

1298
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,440
>> most of the people live around them are

1299
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,079
happy with it. Some people are not. And

1300
00:51:32,079 --> 00:51:34,319
some people that may not be ought to

1301
00:51:34,319 --> 00:51:36,319
have a chance to have their voices

1302
00:51:36,319 --> 00:51:37,359
heard.

1303
00:51:37,359 --> 00:51:39,839
>> And there's from what I gather from what

1304
00:51:39,839 --> 00:51:43,040
you you said, if

1305
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,800
this would pretty much take away the

1306
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,000
city's ability to dictate lighting,

1307
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,480
entrances, you know, control

1308
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,720
how we want it to to look or how the

1309
00:51:56,720 --> 00:51:58,400
city

1310
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,480
want what the what the city and the

1311
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,359
residents want and need versus

1312
00:52:03,359 --> 00:52:05,040
>> what this certain entity

1313
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:06,559
>> or tell us about that.

1314
00:52:06,559 --> 00:52:08,319
>> Well, yeah, I that's a great

1315
00:52:08,319 --> 00:52:09,440
>> I don't want to I don't want to do

1316
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,119
something that's going to take away from

1317
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:13,359
the city's ability to control what comes

1318
00:52:13,359 --> 00:52:15,680
into the city

1319
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:17,760
and how it is maintained, how it, you

1320
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:23,520
know, lighting 247, all that.

1321
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,599
That's a great point to make. I should

1322
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:26,640
have thought of that. I should have

1323
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,040
brought that up. We are not suggesting

1324
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,839
that any of the criteria that apply to

1325
00:52:31,839 --> 00:52:34,720
churches in terms of any of what you

1326
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:37,440
just described change at all. So, that

1327
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,240
would still be in place. Um, I guess you

1328
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:41,520
could say as well, we're not suggesting

1329
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,200
that those criteria get well that the

1330
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,119
standards get ratcheted up or that we

1331
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:49,440
become more stringent in terms of what

1332
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,079
needs to be done with site plan

1333
00:52:52,079 --> 00:52:53,839
approval, which is something that staff

1334
00:52:53,839 --> 00:52:55,599
administers

1335
00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:57,599
um for churches, you know, because of

1336
00:52:57,599 --> 00:52:59,920
these size changes. We do have lighting

1337
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:02,240
regulations that

1338
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:05,520
>> um staff would still have a say in that

1339
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,359
approval through the permitting process.

1340
00:53:07,359 --> 00:53:09,200
Correct. Yes.

1341
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,319
>> Would the planning zoning commission,

1342
00:53:12,319 --> 00:53:14,079
the design review board, and the city

1343
00:53:14,079 --> 00:53:15,920
council still have

1344
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:17,920
>> a chance to review that and comment or

1345
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:18,960
make changes?

1346
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,839
>> Uh, conceivably no, except for I mean,

1347
00:53:21,839 --> 00:53:23,520
you said design review board that

1348
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,680
essentially is staff. Yeah. So, this

1349
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,079
would be a situation where if somebody

1350
00:53:28,079 --> 00:53:29,839
met these criteria and wanted to apply

1351
00:53:29,839 --> 00:53:32,079
for site plan approval

1352
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:34,559
and to apply for a building permit for

1353
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:35,920
something like what we're talking about

1354
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,960
here, those would be administrative

1355
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:40,720
approvals.

1356
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:44,400
Um, there is something beautiful I think

1357
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,640
about administrative approvals. So, I'm

1358
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,040
going to push back a little bit about

1359
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,200
opening up the door for there to be some

1360
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,040
type of additional review, particularly

1361
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,640
if that review is subjective. You know,

1362
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,200
somebody maybe feels like there's one

1363
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:00,880
impact that warrants attention, maybe

1364
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,760
somebody else doesn't, and you know,

1365
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,640
maybe how you go about mitigating impact

1366
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,559
becomes less defined than what we're

1367
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:10,559
talking about here. That's not always

1368
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:12,800
the best position or situation for a

1369
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,720
regulating body like Spanish Fork City

1370
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:19,680
to be in. Um so in as much as we can

1371
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,720
make things objective where again it's

1372
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:25,599
if this happens then

1373
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:28,079
um you know there's just an automatic

1374
00:54:28,079 --> 00:54:32,480
it's if then um almost in like a

1375
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:34,079
checklist kind of a fashion where if you

1376
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:39,040
meet certain criteria the end result is predictable.

1377
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,000
Uh there's certainly value in that as

1378
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,640
well. Um I think situations where we're

1379
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,760
talking about sight specific conditions

1380
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,680
that really becomes helpful when we're

1381
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,440
talking about

1382
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:54,960
um

1383
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,760
uh uses where I think it's easier to

1384
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,280
anticipate

1385
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,079
uh really unique impacts that that you

1386
00:55:02,079 --> 00:55:04,880
have on neighbors. And I think it's

1387
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:06,800
maybe because I understand just a little

1388
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:08,000
bit more about the site that we're

1389
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,480
talking about and how conceivably that

1390
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,280
would be put together. um not talking

1391
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,160
about just eight acres where maybe big

1392
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:17,200
building like what we're talking about

1393
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,599
would be located but also how another

1394
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:23,359
you know 19 acres around it would be

1395
00:55:23,359 --> 00:55:24,559
developed. Um

1396
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:26,000
>> I don't have that information so I don't

1397
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,359
know how to make a judgment on that.

1398
00:55:27,359 --> 00:55:30,960
>> Exactly. Right. Um but because I do

1399
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,440
that's partly why I'm I have the

1400
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,079
perspective that I have. So um

1401
00:55:36,079 --> 00:55:39,200
>> another concern I have Sorry.

1402
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:40,800
>> Nope. Please. I don't want to cut you

1403
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:47,200
off, but um is if this takes it out of

1404
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,359
public comment. I mean, no, the public

1405
00:55:49,359 --> 00:55:52,319
gets zero input on on this basically

1406
00:55:52,319 --> 00:55:59,200
once this goes change to this title, 15. And I'm not comfortable with

1407
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:00,799
that

1408
00:56:00,799 --> 00:56:03,440
because I think, you know, we're we're

1409
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,400
in a res a residential area. There's

1410
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,240
going to be a lot of opinion, you know,

1411
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:11,040
probably a lot of support, but you know,

1412
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,200
I think the public deserves the right to

1413
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,920
show that and we shouldn't be here to

1414
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,440
take that away from them. I

1415
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,200
>> I agree with Commissioner Woodhouse.

1416
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,200
That's my main concern is that if this

1417
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:22,960
was approved tonight and it's approved

1418
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,599
by city council, what opportunities the

1419
00:56:25,599 --> 00:56:28,400
public would have to come and voice

1420
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,119
their opinions about lighting impact on

1421
00:56:31,119 --> 00:56:34,000
their neighbors. Um I I think the public

1422
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,799
needs to be involved in the process.

1423
00:56:36,799 --> 00:56:38,559
>> I think public buyin is a good thing

1424
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:41,839
too. I understand uh I understand the

1425
00:56:41,839 --> 00:56:45,040
reasons for for doing that and uh

1426
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:49,119
trusting staff etc etc. I have a few I

1427
00:56:49,119 --> 00:56:51,119
have a few comments and questions. So

1428
00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:53,119
number one

1429
00:56:53,119 --> 00:56:55,680
uh when I was traveling in India a few

1430
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,720
years ago I was talking with a driver

1431
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:02,000
and said I would like to go visit my

1432
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,000
church and they said oh you're a

1433
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:05,680
Christian and I said how do you know

1434
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,319
that and he said because you said church

1435
00:57:08,319 --> 00:57:11,760
and uh and so I look at a definition

1436
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:13,760
that says church and we're not in India

1437
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,760
so maybe this is a moot point but if you

1438
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:19,760
say church that could imply one thing

1439
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:21,920
and I So that the intent could be that

1440
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:25,920
we could have uh we could have a mosque

1441
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:27,920
here in Spanish Fork in this kind of

1442
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,000
situation. We could have a cathedral. We

1443
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,920
could have a Hindu or Buddhist temple.

1444
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:36,160
We have a um place where uh our friends

1445
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,400
who are Jewish

1446
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,880
worship is there's a temple also anyway.

1447
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:42,720
And so

1448
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,000
uh for me a definition that this is

1449
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:47,839
nitpicky but it could be house of

1450
00:57:47,839 --> 00:57:50,880
worship instead of church. I I don't

1451
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,400
know if anybody cares about that in

1452
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,559
Spanish for Utah.

1453
00:57:54,559 --> 00:57:55,680
>> That's a very valid.

1454
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,400
>> I'm just saying it. Number two is

1455
00:57:58,400 --> 00:57:59,760
>> on that point. Yes.

1456
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:01,200
>> Can I jump in now? Yes. I'm

1457
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:01,760
>> go

1458
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:03,760
>> realize I'm interrupting. Sorry. We feel

1459
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,839
the same way. And that was some counsel

1460
00:58:05,839 --> 00:58:08,319
that we were given by our legal staff

1461
00:58:08,319 --> 00:58:10,720
and we could pull up pull up title 15

1462
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:11,680
real quick and just look at the

1463
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:12,880
definition of a church.

1464
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:13,920
>> How church is defined.

1465
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,079
>> It it is more encompassing than just

1466
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:17,040
what you know maybe

1467
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,200
>> where the definitions matter. So that's

1468
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:19,599
good.

1469
00:58:19,599 --> 00:58:22,319
>> But yet, like we talked about in the

1470
00:58:22,319 --> 00:58:24,000
work session before, as we're going

1471
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,160
through definitions, I think you will

1472
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,079
see the definition change to exactly

1473
00:58:28,079 --> 00:58:31,200
what you just said or the title change

1474
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,799
from churches to houses of worship just

1475
00:58:34,799 --> 00:58:36,400
to be even more clear.

1476
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:37,680
>> So you're saying this would require

1477
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:41,040
maybe a change elsewhere in the code to change that name?

1478
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,359
>> No, because I think it's really an

1479
00:58:43,359 --> 00:58:45,599
encompassing definition that we have

1480
00:58:45,599 --> 00:58:46,960
encomp today. It does

1481
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,040
>> in the United States. a church means a

1482
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:50,319
house of worship.

1483
00:58:50,319 --> 00:58:53,040
>> Well, in title title 15 of our municipal

1484
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:54,799
code as it's defined, I think you'd see

1485
00:58:54,799 --> 00:58:57,200
that several of the different

1486
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:58,799
>> um

1487
00:58:58,799 --> 00:59:01,119
>> structures that that accommodate people

1488
00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:03,920
of different faiths fit into that

1489
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:04,960
>> that definition already.

1490
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:05,440
>> Okay.

1491
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:06,640
>> Nonetheless,

1492
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:08,240
>> I think what you suggested is much

1493
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,720
better from a practice perspective, but

1494
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,160
we have let's stop calling it churches

1495
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:14,079
and let's call it houses of worship. So,

1496
00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:15,359
sorry to cut you off, but we're on it.

1497
00:59:15,359 --> 00:59:17,280
>> No, that's great. That's great. Okay.

1498
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:21,280
Number two, if I am going to

1499
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,760
vote to recommend to the city council

1500
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:25,520
this change, there's a few questions I

1501
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:29,599
have I have because this is this I have

1502
00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:31,520
colleagues that might not vote for this

1503
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:33,839
because of this particular thing. But if

1504
00:59:33,839 --> 00:59:35,920
I do vote for it, then this is my one

1505
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,799
bite at the pie. And is that the right

1506
00:59:38,799 --> 00:59:39,760
word? Way to

1507
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,920
>> sounds good to me. [laughter]

1508
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,200
Uh, I'd like to know about what the

1509
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:47,920
city's uh what what's the city code

1510
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,599
about lighting and like and lighting the

1511
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:54,000
same brightness of lighting all day 24

1512
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,880
hours or less at night or could you I'd

1513
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:58,319
like to know about that. I'd like to

1514
00:59:58,319 --> 01:00:00,079
know about

1515
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:03,359
um parking and road like what how's the

1516
01:00:03,359 --> 01:00:06,799
road going to be finished uh along those

1517
01:00:06,799 --> 01:00:10,240
two corridors because

1518
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,200
anyway and then what parking will look

1519
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,839
like in those areas.

1520
01:00:15,839 --> 01:00:18,079
>> Okay. Three things,

1521
01:00:18,079 --> 01:00:18,960
>> three bites of the

1522
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,359
>> streets, parking, lighting.

1523
01:00:21,359 --> 01:00:22,079
>> Yeah.

1524
01:00:22,079 --> 01:00:24,720
>> I parking we have parking requirements.

1525
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,520
Those have to be met and those are based

1526
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:29,599
on a number of different things. I think

1527
01:00:29,599 --> 01:00:32,480
in fact for churches we might still have

1528
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,480
kind of an antiquated way of way of

1529
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,720
regulating that. I think it might be by

1530
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,760
number of seats or like space on pews

1531
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,160
even. We can check that but it's simply

1532
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,200
it's a numerical thing that uh comes

1533
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,000
into play. I believe with what we're

1534
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:49,760
talking about here that the city's

1535
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:51,680
parking requirements would likely be

1536
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:55,520
exceeded um in enough of a way that um

1537
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,359
it doesn't come into into play in this

1538
01:00:57,359 --> 01:01:01,359
case. But regardless, it's just defined

1539
01:01:01,359 --> 01:01:05,760
by some quantifiable measurable

1540
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,480
u metric.

1541
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,720
streets. You know, again, whether we're

1542
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:12,880
talking about site in question or any

1543
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,599
place else, if somebody were to develop

1544
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:19,920
a new site next to a street that um

1545
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,400
isn't currently brought up to the city's

1546
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,160
standards for design, whether it's

1547
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,319
street width or maybe the absence of a

1548
01:01:28,319 --> 01:01:31,040
sidewalk or any of that type of a thing,

1549
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:34,240
they simply have to follow the city's

1550
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:38,160
requirements for developing the site.

1551
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:43,839
which means uh developed streets. Um the

1552
01:01:43,839 --> 01:01:46,720
exception would only be if somebody were

1553
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,880
maybe purchasing, you can almost call it

1554
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,359
a finished lot if all of the streets

1555
01:01:51,359 --> 01:01:53,760
around it are already fully developed.

1556
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,000
Um more specifically with the site that

1557
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,480
we're talking about, uh particularly the

1558
01:01:58,480 --> 01:01:59,839
street, and I think it's both a street

1559
01:01:59,839 --> 01:02:01,440
on the north and east side of the

1560
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:02,880
subject property, they're not fully

1561
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:06,079
developed. And uh the property owner is

1562
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:08,640
aware that they will need to enhance

1563
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,319
those um

1564
01:02:10,319 --> 01:02:12,319
>> both sides or

1565
01:02:12,319 --> 01:02:16,559
>> north and south

1566
01:02:16,559 --> 01:02:18,480
the frontage side. So on the property

1567
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:23,280
side they will be improving those um on

1568
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,440
the north side

1569
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,119
of the street that runs along the north

1570
01:02:27,119 --> 01:02:28,240
side of the subject property. I think

1571
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:30,480
that's already improved. on the east

1572
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:32,480
side. I don't believe it is. And we're

1573
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,400
talking with them about making

1574
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,960
improvements on the east side as well as

1575
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,359
their side on the west side of the road

1576
01:02:39,359 --> 01:02:41,440
that runs north south along the east

1577
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,599
side of the property.

1578
01:02:43,599 --> 01:02:46,079
>> But it's it's that's defined in our

1579
01:02:46,079 --> 01:02:47,440
development standards by way of what

1580
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:48,960
somebody would have to do. And you know,

1581
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:51,119
the location doesn't matter. It's it's

1582
01:02:51,119 --> 01:02:52,799
predetermined in terms of what somebody

1583
01:02:52,799 --> 01:02:56,559
would have to do to improve streets

1584
01:02:56,559 --> 01:02:59,920
um in order to get a building permit for

1585
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:02,720
any kind of new land use.

1586
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,440
>> So for a church taller than 35 feet,

1587
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,079
would you need would the width of the

1588
01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:10,400
road need to be changed because there'll

1589
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,480
be more traffic in that area? We have a

1590
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:18,000
school close by, too. Is that there's a

1591
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,720
lot of traffic already? There'll be a

1592
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:24,400
lot more. What What's the planned widths

1593
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,319
when they're finished?

1594
01:03:26,319 --> 01:03:28,960
>> Yeah. So, I'll talk about that.

1595
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,440
uh agnostically,

1596
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:33,359
if that's a way to

1597
01:03:33,359 --> 01:03:35,760
>> It doesn't matter what the use is.

1598
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:36,720
>> Doesn't matter the use.

1599
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,119
>> Yeah. So, our engineering folks, Josh,

1600
01:03:39,119 --> 01:03:41,119
if somebody submitted a site plan for

1601
01:03:41,119 --> 01:03:43,359
something and he felt like potentially

1602
01:03:43,359 --> 01:03:45,440
there is going to be an adverse impact

1603
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,079
on the city's local street network,

1604
01:03:48,079 --> 01:03:50,799
whether it's adjacent to the property or

1605
01:03:50,799 --> 01:03:52,079
occasionally, I would say even

1606
01:03:52,079 --> 01:03:53,599
oftentimes, we're thinking about maybe

1607
01:03:53,599 --> 01:03:57,520
intersections that are remote to a site.

1608
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:59,359
An applicant would be required to

1609
01:03:59,359 --> 01:04:02,559
prepare a traffic study which is a sight

1610
01:04:02,559 --> 01:04:04,480
specific analysis that takes into

1611
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:06,240
account what the specific proposed use

1612
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:08,480
is and it identifies where improvements

1613
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,119
are needed to address the additional

1614
01:04:11,119 --> 01:04:12,799
traffic that's added to the system based

1615
01:04:12,799 --> 01:04:18,720
on the use that's in front of us when that project's getting reviewed and

1616
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:20,400
we work with applicants to make

1617
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,400
improvements. Occasionally we use funds

1618
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,799
that we collect as the city to make

1619
01:04:24,799 --> 01:04:27,039
improvements, impact fees, you know,

1620
01:04:27,039 --> 01:04:29,119
both off-site and adjacent to subject

1621
01:04:29,119 --> 01:04:32,480
properties to deal with traffic impacts.

1622
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:33,680
And again, it doesn't matter if we're

1623
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:36,160
talking about a church that's 25t tall,

1624
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:41,280
65 ft tall, or a maverick or a Costco,

1625
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:43,440
whatever, right? It's just

1626
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,870
>> or a schools. [clears throat]

1627
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:47,839
I think schools are

1628
01:04:47,839 --> 01:04:49,440
>> a lot of those traffic impact studies

1629
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:51,839
we've had in the past have said, you

1630
01:04:51,839 --> 01:04:56,640
know, no significant impact or the impact's

1631
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:02,319
been uh controllable and we've had a lot

1632
01:05:02,319 --> 01:05:04,880
of community feedback on it that has

1633
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:06,559
generated changes. Even though the

1634
01:05:06,559 --> 01:05:08,240
traffic study said one thing, we've had

1635
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:10,799
such feedback from neighboring residents

1636
01:05:10,799 --> 01:05:13,359
that there have been certain changes

1637
01:05:13,359 --> 01:05:16,559
made to uh help alleviate those

1638
01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:20,559
problems. And as Commissioner Woodhouse

1639
01:05:20,559 --> 01:05:22,799
and Carol said, without that public

1640
01:05:22,799 --> 01:05:24,559
hearing, the community doesn't have

1641
01:05:24,559 --> 01:05:28,480
promise a a platform to be able to voice

1642
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,799
those concerns.

1643
01:05:30,799 --> 01:05:31,839
>> Correct.

1644
01:05:31,839 --> 01:05:35,285
>> True. Yep. What uh

1645
01:05:35,285 --> 01:05:36,640
[snorts]

1646
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:40,160
how is there would there be a way to

1647
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:42,960
change this so that it could become part

1648
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,160
it would need to have a conditional use

1649
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:48,640
permit that it would this could be a

1650
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:50,799
conditional use instead of a subject to

1651
01:05:50,799 --> 01:05:51,520
conditions.

1652
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:52,960
>> Wouldn't that be just not making the

1653
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:53,920
amendment?

1654
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:54,240
>> Yes.

1655
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:55,680
>> No, it wouldn't be that.

1656
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:56,799
>> And we can talk about that in a second.

1657
01:05:56,799 --> 01:05:57,839
But you left lighting,

1658
01:05:57,839 --> 01:05:58,319
>> huh?

1659
01:05:58,319 --> 01:05:59,599
>> You lighting?

1660
01:05:59,599 --> 01:06:01,119
>> Oh, yeah. Lighting. Go.

1661
01:06:01,119 --> 01:06:02,000
>> I'm dying here.

1662
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,359
>> Thank you. Oh, and it's bite of the

1663
01:06:03,359 --> 01:06:04,799
apple, I think. Not the pie.

1664
01:06:04,799 --> 01:06:05,440
>> The apple.

1665
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:06,160
>> That's what we say.

1666
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:07,680
>> But I like pies better.

1667
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,000
>> Right. Maybe apple pie. [laughter]

1668
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:11,280
>> Could be both.

1669
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:12,880
>> Yeah. Call it an apple pie.

1670
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,839
>> Um, our requirements for lighting,

1671
01:06:15,839 --> 01:06:19,200
frankly, I think, are are fairly light.

1672
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:21,440
It's I didn't mean that, [laughter] but

1673
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:23,119
uh they're they're uh they're not

1674
01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:25,680
terribly explicit. We do require dark

1675
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:27,280
skylighting.

1676
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,039
So, for example, when somebody lights a

1677
01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:31,200
parking lot, they have to use lighting

1678
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:34,960
fixtures. fixtures that direct light

1679
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,280
downward is the best way for me to

1680
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,359
describe it. I think part of that as

1681
01:06:39,359 --> 01:06:43,440
well is that the the source of light,

1682
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:46,079
which I picture it just like a old

1683
01:06:46,079 --> 01:06:48,960
incandescent light bulb, that has to be

1684
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,599
shielded so that even if I'm a great

1685
01:06:51,599 --> 01:06:55,440
distance away from a parking lot light,

1686
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,559
I can't see that light source as if it

1687
01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:00,720
were in, you know, maybe some kind of

1688
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:02,640
globular

1689
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,359
uh acornshaped

1690
01:07:05,359 --> 01:07:07,039
light fixture where there's a glass bulb

1691
01:07:07,039 --> 01:07:08,480
with the light in the middle of it and

1692
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:10,960
you can see that for miles if that makes

1693
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:15,760
sense. So, we do require things that um

1694
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:19,119
shield light and that screen light, that

1695
01:07:19,119 --> 01:07:22,480
direct light downward. And we require

1696
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,760
with site plans developers to submit

1697
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:29,680
what's called a phototric plan,

1698
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:32,799
photo light metric measurable.

1699
01:07:32,799 --> 01:07:36,079
And those plans identify how much light

1700
01:07:36,079 --> 01:07:38,160
there will be

1701
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,200
throughout a site and onto adjacent

1702
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,839
properties based on the types of

1703
01:07:43,839 --> 01:07:46,240
fixtures that are proposed to be used,

1704
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,240
where they're located, and how tall they

1705
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:52,160
are. And those plans are sheets that

1706
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:54,720
have numbers on a grid throughout a

1707
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:58,319
property that identify foot candles. And

1708
01:07:58,319 --> 01:08:00,160
we as staff look at those. And when we

1709
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,319
look at those primarily, we're looking

1710
01:08:02,319 --> 01:08:04,319
to make sure that there aren't really

1711
01:08:04,319 --> 01:08:07,119
light spots on a site or bright maybe is

1712
01:08:07,119 --> 01:08:09,039
a better way to say it and sites that

1713
01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:11,359
are less bright. So we're looking for

1714
01:08:11,359 --> 01:08:14,319
some kind of uniform level of lighting

1715
01:08:14,319 --> 01:08:15,920
throughout a site. And we want to make

1716
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:19,040
sure that there's not light spill over

1717
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:22,239
onto adjacent properties, which is

1718
01:08:22,239 --> 01:08:25,040
actually really easy to accomplish with

1719
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,839
the right kind of fixture and sometimes

1720
01:08:27,839 --> 01:08:30,719
even some kind of an additional shield

1721
01:08:30,719 --> 01:08:32,719
that is an offthe-shelf thing that

1722
01:08:32,719 --> 01:08:35,839
lighting manufacturers have to use to do

1723
01:08:35,839 --> 01:08:37,920
just exactly what I'm I'm suggesting

1724
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:42,239
there. Um, and in terms of, for example,

1725
01:08:42,239 --> 01:08:44,880
the parking lot that would come into

1726
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:48,319
play with what we're talking about and

1727
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:50,799
anything like that. Could be a school,

1728
01:08:50,799 --> 01:08:52,560
could be, again, like a retail use,

1729
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:55,520
anything like that. Um, I think we'd be

1730
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,279
careful to take the same kind of

1731
01:08:57,279 --> 01:08:59,759
precautions regardless of what the use

1732
01:08:59,759 --> 01:09:02,319
is. Um, at least that's how our

1733
01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:05,679
ordinance is written. Uh, I know that

1734
01:09:05,679 --> 01:09:07,040
with structures like what we're talking

1735
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:10,480
about here. Um, occasionally those get

1736
01:09:10,480 --> 01:09:13,440
lit as well. Sometimes they're uplit.

1737
01:09:13,440 --> 01:09:16,239
Um, and that sort of a thing. And we

1738
01:09:16,239 --> 01:09:18,960
really don't have much in our code that

1739
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,080
would say you can or can't do that. This

1740
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,640
is how bright it can or can't be. This

1741
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,480
is how much of a day you can have it

1742
01:09:28,480 --> 01:09:31,520
lit, you know, maybe, you know,

1743
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:34,239
throughout the evening hours or it could

1744
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:37,600
be like some type of a a shut off time

1745
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:39,440
for that sort of lighting. We don't have

1746
01:09:39,440 --> 01:09:42,960
any provisions in place for that. So,

1747
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:45,440
>> so not dimmer overnight

1748
01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:47,120
>> in terms of what we inherently would

1749
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:48,799
require. No, we don't have anything like

1750
01:09:48,799 --> 01:09:50,000
that. And we don't have any buildings

1751
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:53,040
that might be illuminated similarly that

1752
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:55,600
are doing anything that we I'm assuming

1753
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,360
this is completely new.

1754
01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:58,480
>> I'm pretty sure I know the answer to

1755
01:09:58,480 --> 01:09:59,360
that. Yeah.

1756
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,159
>> Yep.

1757
01:10:02,159 --> 01:10:06,640
>> Okay. So, back to a couple of different

1758
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:10,080
elements maybe of the same question.

1759
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:11,760
Could what we're talking about tonight

1760
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:13,600
or maybe something similar to it happen

1761
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:15,199
without some kind of change being made

1762
01:10:15,199 --> 01:10:18,719
to title 15? Um, not according to title

1763
01:10:18,719 --> 01:10:22,400
15 is my answer to that. Some kind of

1764
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:26,960
change needs to be made. Now, I am

1765
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:30,080
probably fairly ignorant though. Warm

1766
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:32,719
up. I think Joshua probably is expecting

1767
01:10:32,719 --> 01:10:35,040
it. Uh there are federal laws that come

1768
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:36,719
into play when you're dealing with any

1769
01:10:36,719 --> 01:10:39,360
type of uh exercise of somebody's

1770
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:42,480
freedom of religion that uh work their

1771
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:45,199
way through uh courts enough that I

1772
01:10:45,199 --> 01:10:46,640
think there's case law and that type of

1773
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:51,040
thing that that uh

1774
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:52,719
that's a good time for me to stop

1775
01:10:52,719 --> 01:10:54,080
talking. Joshua, you want to take it

1776
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:55,440
from there?

1777
01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:57,280
>> So, you may have heard of some of these

1778
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:58,480
federal laws. I think we've talked about

1779
01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:00,400
them before, but the specific law is

1780
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:03,440
called the Religious Land Use and

1781
01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:06,000
Institutional Persons Act. I believe

1782
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,880
it's abbreviated a lot, but essentially

1783
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:13,520
the law because um religion

1784
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:15,360
is protected under the First Amendment.

1785
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:17,600
Then there's federal protections that go

1786
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:20,239
in um civil rights that essentially

1787
01:11:20,239 --> 01:11:22,400
cities and states can't violate if they

1788
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:24,080
want any kind of federal funding or any

1789
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:25,679
of those things. Otherwise, you'll be

1790
01:11:25,679 --> 01:11:27,040
challenged by in the [clears throat]

1791
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,520
courts and lose, right? Essentially. So,

1792
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,760
this law um it's been in place for 20

1793
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,640
years. The significant thing here is

1794
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:39,600
that um any regulation that we put on a

1795
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,640
practice or exercise of religion um

1796
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:45,600
can't place a substantial burden on the

1797
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:49,520
exercise of the religion um without

1798
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,080
there being a compelling interest and us

1799
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,239
doing it in a narrowly tailored or

1800
01:11:54,239 --> 01:11:55,760
what's called the least restrictive

1801
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,400
manner. So that's the law generally,

1802
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,560
right? So if we [clears throat] have,

1803
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:02,640
for example, if we were to try to do a

1804
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:04,880
conditional use permit and try to put

1805
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,840
any kind of restriction on even the

1806
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:11,360
building or the structure or anything in terms of height or lighting or any of

1807
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:13,280
those things and it creates a

1808
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:16,880
substantial burden on the religious the

1809
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:18,719
exercise of that religion and they can

1810
01:12:18,719 --> 01:12:21,920
articulate basically anything um fairly

1811
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:23,920
easily to say that this is a substantial

1812
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,400
burden. Then it shift the burden of of

1813
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,120
the law shifts back to us and we have to

1814
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:31,760
articulate and prove in court that we

1815
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:34,239
have a compelling interest for why we

1816
01:12:34,239 --> 01:12:38,080
need those um restrictions. And not only

1817
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:39,440
do we have to articulate a compelling

1818
01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:42,719
interest, we have to show that we've um

1819
01:12:42,719 --> 01:12:45,440
written our law in the way that is the

1820
01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:49,199
least restrictive possible to further

1821
01:12:49,199 --> 01:12:51,360
our compelling interest. Um least

1822
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:53,040
restrictive in terms of creating a

1823
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,320
burden on them. So, um, that's how this

1824
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:59,360
title 15 change sort of came about is

1825
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,120
that we were trying to So, the only

1826
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:03,120
thing in my understanding that these

1827
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:06,159
structures, um, potentially why they

1828
01:13:06,159 --> 01:13:08,000
couldn't just go and already get a

1829
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:13,040
permit to a building permit [snorts] and and build in town is because of the

1830
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:15,040
height of of the structure, right? And

1831
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:16,800
so, that's all that we're looking at.

1832
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,960
That's all that we're talking about. if

1833
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:21,840
they came to a public hearing or

1834
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,320
anything, that's all we could really be

1835
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,400
addressing is the height of the

1836
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:28,320
structures. All of the other stuff they

1837
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:31,679
already can meet our uh current laws,

1838
01:13:31,679 --> 01:13:34,640
right? And so I think if we got into all

1839
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:35,679
of that, we would have a lot of

1840
01:13:35,679 --> 01:13:37,760
discussion on things that we can't even

1841
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:39,440
do anything about anyway, right? We

1842
01:13:39,440 --> 01:13:43,360
can't talk about roads and lighting and all of that because we already have

1843
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:45,040
all of those laws in place and they

1844
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:46,480
already potentially are going to meet

1845
01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:47,920
those. The only thing we could be

1846
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,719
talking about is the height. And so when

1847
01:13:50,719 --> 01:13:52,320
it comes to the height of these kinds of

1848
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:54,640
structures, it would [snorts] if we have

1849
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:56,800
a restriction on it, which we have in

1850
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:58,880
the past, it would be a substantial

1851
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:01,280
burden for them to not be able to build

1852
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:04,000
the house of worship as high as they

1853
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:07,280
want to to build it. And so what is our

1854
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:08,880
compelling interest for why we would

1855
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,400
restrict that height? And our best in

1856
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:13,760
our view, our best compelling interest

1857
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:15,840
is fire safety. We want to make sure

1858
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:18,239
that if a structure comes on fire or

1859
01:14:18,239 --> 01:14:19,920
something like this that we are able to

1860
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:22,000
fight that fire, right, in a way that's

1861
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,159
reasonable and appropriate. So that's

1862
01:14:24,159 --> 01:14:25,920
why we put in some of this language

1863
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,239
there in DU that anything above a

1864
01:14:28,239 --> 01:14:30,640
certain height, it's built of

1865
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:32,880
non-combustible materials so that we're

1866
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:35,760
not fighting fires 200 feet in the sky,

1867
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:37,360
but 80 feet, right? We can fight a fire

1868
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:39,520
80t, we can't fight one 200, but

1869
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,600
anything above the 80 or above the 70 is

1870
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:43,760
non-combustible materials. So that is

1871
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:47,440
our approach as staff in

1872
01:14:47,440 --> 01:14:49,920
writing a law that has that furthers our

1873
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,640
compelling interest of of fighting a

1874
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,760
fire um in the most narrowly tailored or

1875
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:58,480
at least in um least in least

1876
01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:00,320
restrictive manner possible. So that's

1877
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:01,199
where this came about.

1878
01:15:01,199 --> 01:15:02,560
>> But but don't we have a compelling

1879
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:04,880
interest also as far as height goes or

1880
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:09,040
building height in the the view

1881
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:11,040
corridors that this could or could not

1882
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:12,159
because again I don't know where this is

1883
01:15:12,159 --> 01:15:13,199
located. Sure.

1884
01:15:13,199 --> 01:15:14,560
>> Um could have on surrounding

1885
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:19,520
neighborhoods. Um could have on uh

1886
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:21,280
neighbors. I mean we have had people

1887
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:22,800
appear before us concerned about the

1888
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:24,719
height of an apartment building that was

1889
01:15:24,719 --> 01:15:27,440
only 40 ft high on the effect of its

1890
01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:29,360
crops on the on the field next door.

1891
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:29,760
>> Right.

1892
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:31,600
>> So I mean there

1893
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:33,040
>> that's it goes to the other part of it

1894
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:35,600
which is it's at least 8 acres. So, in

1895
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:37,360
terms of a view corridor, the compelling

1896
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:40,560
interest in a in a parcel that's more

1897
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,199
than, you know, far not right up next to

1898
01:15:43,199 --> 01:15:45,280
the the the structure, but farther

1899
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:46,880
enough away. They don't

1900
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:48,320
>> they haven't found that to be located on

1901
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:50,239
that 8 acres. It could be right adjacent

1902
01:15:50,239 --> 01:15:53,040
to a 100 home subdivision.

1903
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:54,560
>> It's true. You're right.

1904
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:56,239
>> Well, it could be on the further end and

1905
01:15:56,239 --> 01:15:57,600
it doesn't have much of an impact.

1906
01:15:57,600 --> 01:15:58,880
>> But that's the idea with a compelling

1907
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:00,480
interest, right? Is is that a compelling

1908
01:16:00,480 --> 01:16:02,000
interest as a view or a compelling

1909
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:03,600
interest? And from what I've seen and

1910
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:05,840
what I've studied on this law, it's not

1911
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:08,080
a compelling enough interest to be able

1912
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:11,679
to create a a based off the substantial

1913
01:16:11,679 --> 01:16:13,600
burden that it imposes upon the exercise

1914
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:14,320
of the religion.

1915
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:15,520
>> I know it's not exactly what we're

1916
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,679
talking about now, but has has lighting

1917
01:16:17,679 --> 01:16:19,280
been discussed as a compelling interest.

1918
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:21,679
I know that's sometimes some concerns.

1919
01:16:21,679 --> 01:16:24,159
>> Again,

1920
01:16:24,159 --> 01:16:27,199
so I haven't looked at lighting because

1921
01:16:27,199 --> 01:16:29,600
as far as I understood, lighting was not

1922
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,159
an issue under our current laws. Right.

1923
01:16:32,159 --> 01:16:34,080
So I was only looking at this in terms

1924
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:36,080
of the one thing that was a violation of

1925
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:38,159
laws which is of title 15 which is the

1926
01:16:38,159 --> 01:16:38,719
height.

1927
01:16:38,719 --> 01:16:40,159
>> It could be an issue but it's not

1928
01:16:40,159 --> 01:16:41,679
something we've addressed previously. So

1929
01:16:41,679 --> 01:16:44,159
we can't make constraints in our title

1930
01:16:44,159 --> 01:16:45,760
15 to

1931
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:47,600
>> you would have to amend title you'd have

1932
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:49,280
to amend title 15 to restrict them if

1933
01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:50,480
that's what you were trying to do.

1934
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:52,880
>> Yeah.

1935
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:54,719
>> Can I jump in with one thing? In my mind

1936
01:16:54,719 --> 01:16:57,120
it's a detail you brought I think you

1937
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,199
made a good point Mr. Chairman a couple

1938
01:16:59,199 --> 01:17:00,000
of times.

1939
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,159
>> Thank you. We're trying to come up here

1940
01:17:02,159 --> 01:17:04,320
with reasonable, you know, going back to

1941
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:05,199
it,

1942
01:17:05,199 --> 01:17:06,480
>> conditions

1943
01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:09,840
>> that just help provide some insurance

1944
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:11,440
that what we're talking about makes

1945
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:12,800
sense.

1946
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:14,880
>> Um,

1947
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:16,480
we don't want to see something like this

1948
01:17:16,480 --> 01:17:19,760
built 50t away from a house or something

1949
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,239
like that. So, you know, maybe coming up

1950
01:17:22,239 --> 01:17:25,520
with another another [snorts] condition

1951
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:28,159
here that's a setback, you know, maybe

1952
01:17:28,159 --> 01:17:32,000
to any residential property like in my

1953
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,719
mind then there's just one other

1954
01:17:34,719 --> 01:17:36,560
criteria that would have to be met that

1955
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:40,239
I think makes great sense. Um, I don't

1956
01:17:40,239 --> 01:17:42,080
know exactly what that number would be.

1957
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:46,239
I I'm thinking 50 feet as being being

1958
01:17:46,239 --> 01:17:48,000
way less than what makes sense.

1959
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,120
>> It's an 80 foot building. Um, right. So,

1960
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:53,360
you could start to just kind of envision

1961
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:55,360
some scale that might might make sense

1962
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:59,199
there. But, um,

1963
01:17:59,199 --> 01:18:02,239
uh, in as much as this might go forward,

1964
01:18:02,239 --> 01:18:03,520
I think it makes sense to look at a

1965
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:05,040
setback requirement in addition to what

1966
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:07,520
we're talking about here.

1967
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:08,480
Um,

1968
01:18:08,480 --> 01:18:10,800
>> how does the

1969
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:14,960
h legally the the points been brought up

1970
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:16,480
by a couple commissioners tonight about

1971
01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:19,360
the public's having a chance to speak or

1972
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:23,360
address or be heard on an issue such as

1973
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:25,679
this?

1974
01:18:25,679 --> 01:18:27,600
What are we allowed or not allowed to I

1975
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:30,400
mean that that seems like that's just

1976
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:32,719
part of our process we do on everything.

1977
01:18:32,719 --> 01:18:34,480
Why would that be eliminated? Or is

1978
01:18:34,480 --> 01:18:37,600
there a way to keep that criteria in

1979
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:39,600
there so the public is represented at

1980
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:42,080
least have their voices heard or is that

1981
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:50,070
not just not allowed if we adopt this?

1982
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,159
» If this were adopted, there would not be

1983
01:18:52,159 --> 01:18:53,040
a public hearing.

1984
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:54,560
>> I understand. Is there a way to make it

1985
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:55,920
so it could be

1986
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:57,600
>> and not get us in a legal bind is what

1987
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:00,709
I'm asking.

1988
01:19:00,719 --> 01:19:02,960
I don't see how we get in legal bind

1989
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:04,719
even if we don't pass this they can

1990
01:19:04,719 --> 01:19:07,760
still present do follow the regular

1991
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:09,280
protocol

1992
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:12,560
present the building go through you know

1993
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:16,640
let the public comment odds are we know

1994
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:18,719
the neighborhood and that they're it's

1995
01:19:18,719 --> 01:19:20,640
probably going to be favorable in their

1996
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:24,320
favor the comment there are people that

1997
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:26,960
are going to argue the opposite and I

1998
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:29,280
think their voices need to be heard I

1999
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:30,719
mean, we're surrounded by these same

2000
01:19:30,719 --> 01:19:33,520
buildings

2001
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,560
and you know, they're there and I don't

2002
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:38,320
know that these other cities, I know He

2003
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:41,600
City did not make change their title 15

2004
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:43,440
for this and they're still getting one

2005
01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:45,199
where it was not wanted by the local

2006
01:19:45,199 --> 01:19:46,719
people close by, but it's still going

2007
01:19:46,719 --> 01:19:49,199
there. It didn't get stopped. So, what

2008
01:19:49,199 --> 01:19:52,239
I'm saying is I the I I [clears throat]

2009
01:19:52,239 --> 01:19:54,719
personally don't like this idea because

2010
01:19:54,719 --> 01:19:56,159
I want the public to be able to voice

2011
01:19:56,159 --> 01:19:57,040
their opinion.

2012
01:19:57,040 --> 01:19:59,280
>> I understand that. So the I guess the

2013
01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:00,000
point is

2014
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:01,920
>> and I don't think we're crossing the

2015
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:04,320
line because you know it's the way it's

2016
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:06,000
been for all the other cities,

2017
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:08,239
>> right? So I guess the in my view the

2018
01:20:08,239 --> 01:20:12,960
point is um attorneys for you know these

2019
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:16,239
kinds of structures would challenge our

2020
01:20:16,239 --> 01:20:19,520
law our title 15 restrictions as a as a

2021
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:21,440
violation of federal law. Right? If we

2022
01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:23,360
didn't change the law, we'd most likely

2023
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:25,600
be in a lawsuit with they would come

2024
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:27,120
make an application. The [snorts] public

2025
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:29,120
could be heard. If we denied it because

2026
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:31,280
Title 15 doesn't allow it, then they

2027
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:33,520
would sue us under this federal law.

2028
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:35,840
>> Could they sue us if we didn't have like

2029
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:37,199
they couldn't sue us if we just left

2030
01:20:37,199 --> 01:20:38,239
this out, right? And

2031
01:20:38,239 --> 01:20:39,600
>> no, that's my under federal law. Your

2032
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:40,320
point is they could

2033
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:41,199
>> they absolutely won't.

2034
01:20:41,199 --> 01:20:42,719
>> So, this drives So, that actually drives

2035
01:20:42,719 --> 01:20:45,520
our requirement to to have this

2036
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:47,600
>> that's my point is we're trying to avoid

2037
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:49,280
with this a potential lawsuit under

2038
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:51,040
federal law.

2039
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:54,159
Correct. So, but can we stay within the

2040
01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:56,320
law and change it to so that it would

2041
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,480
had to have a conditional use permit?

2042
01:20:58,480 --> 01:21:00,719
>> We stay within the law if we don't do

2043
01:21:00,719 --> 01:21:02,960
anything with this. It's still there.

2044
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:06,000
They're still can follow the same.

2045
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:07,679
>> But if but if we don't do this

2046
01:21:07,679 --> 01:21:09,120
>> rights as anybody else,

2047
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:10,480
>> they still have that same right, but

2048
01:21:10,480 --> 01:21:12,159
they have the right to challenge our

2049
01:21:12,159 --> 01:21:14,560
restriction, right? Which they most

2050
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:17,280
likely would do in court and we would,

2051
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:19,280
in my opinion, we would lose,

2052
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:20,080
>> right?

2053
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:22,480
go back to my question. Could we have

2054
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:25,199
this be a conditional use permit and it

2055
01:21:25,199 --> 01:21:25,840
would

2056
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:28,000
>> So again, you you could it would be a

2057
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:29,760
different process and you could

2058
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,239
>> put conditions on

2059
01:21:32,239 --> 01:21:35,199
the application, but if you put any

2060
01:21:35,199 --> 01:21:36,800
conditions on the application that

2061
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:38,719
create a substantial burden in violation

2062
01:21:38,719 --> 01:21:40,960
of federal law, I mean, in my advice,

2063
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:43,120
the only conditions you could put on

2064
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:45,280
would be with respect to the steeple,

2065
01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:46,640
the height of the steeple or the height

2066
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:48,560
of the church. We could put these very

2067
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,280
conditions on these conditions into a

2068
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:53,040
different into a different column that

2069
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:54,560
would allow the public to come and

2070
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:55,280
comment.

2071
01:21:55,280 --> 01:21:57,600
>> I believe that's the case

2072
01:21:57,600 --> 01:21:59,520
>> or we don't we

2073
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:00,639
>> that's kind of what's happening right

2074
01:22:00,639 --> 01:22:00,960
now.

2075
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:02,400
>> Let them present their plans.

2076
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:03,360
>> Understood.

2077
01:22:03,360 --> 01:22:06,800
>> And it goes through the normal process,

2078
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:08,400
>> right? So if they presented their plans

2079
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:10,560
as it is and we denied them because our

2080
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:12,400
code didn't allow it, then we would get

2081
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:13,360
sued under federal law.

2082
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:16,080
>> Right? But we can also

2083
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:18,159
>> and we would plan at the time when we

2084
01:22:18,159 --> 01:22:19,440
hear when we know what's getting built.

2085
01:22:19,440 --> 01:22:20,560
Do we even know for sure?

2086
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:21,520
>> Approve a plan,

2087
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:23,199
>> right? We can still approve the plan. It

2088
01:22:23,199 --> 01:22:23,679
can still be

2089
01:22:23,679 --> 01:22:25,440
>> not without a title 15 change

2090
01:22:25,440 --> 01:22:26,719
>> not without a title 15

2091
01:22:26,719 --> 01:22:28,400
>> or a conditional use well and a

2092
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:28,880
conditional

2093
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:29,600
>> at that point

2094
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:32,000
>> either a conditional use permit or uh

2095
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:35,520
these under conditions subject to sorry

2096
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:38,159
use under subject subject to conditions.

2097
01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:40,159
conditional use would be sufficient, but

2098
01:22:40,159 --> 01:22:41,440
this is just

2099
01:22:41,440 --> 01:22:43,440
>> but we've had we've had meetings where

2100
01:22:43,440 --> 01:22:45,920
we've had a title 15 amendment just

2101
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:48,320
prior or actually in one case

2102
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:50,560
>> current in the same meeting.

2103
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:50,880
>> Yeah,

2104
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:53,280
>> we've had those title 15 adjustments

2105
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:54,639
>> in that meeting where they presented

2106
01:22:54,639 --> 01:22:55,360
their plan.

2107
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:57,280
>> Yeah.

2108
01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:59,679
>> Can we do that?

2109
01:22:59,679 --> 01:23:03,840
>> Please, I

2110
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:05,679
>> That's all I was gonna say. [laughter]

2111
01:23:05,679 --> 01:23:07,920
>> I didn't hear you.

2112
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:09,840
Um,

2113
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:12,320
what I'm hearing is that you'd like us

2114
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:13,760
to prepare an option that would have

2115
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:14,880
what we're talking about be a

2116
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:16,320
conditional use.

2117
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:19,520
>> Yes, certainly do that. So, um, it

2118
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:21,520
wouldn't be hard to put that into a

2119
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:23,199
recommendation tonight.

2120
01:23:23,199 --> 01:23:25,040
>> You understand though that the

2121
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:28,480
conditional use that we would want to

2122
01:23:28,480 --> 01:23:31,280
have a plan in front of us.

2123
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:32,800
>> That's how it would work.

2124
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:33,280
>> Okay.

2125
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:35,679
>> Yep. Somebody would come with a specific

2126
01:23:35,679 --> 01:23:37,520
plan to you. there would be a public

2127
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:38,480
hearing

2128
01:23:38,480 --> 01:23:38,880
>> and that

2129
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:45,110
>> and you'd hear it in the public hearing.

2130
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:47,840
» Um, so I

2131
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:48,560
>> Yeah,

2132
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:49,199
>> feel free.

2133
01:23:49,199 --> 01:23:50,080
>> Did we just

2134
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:51,679
>> I want to make one one comment here.

2135
01:23:51,679 --> 01:23:53,600
>> Well, I may I

2136
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:55,679
>> Yes.

2137
01:23:55,679 --> 01:23:58,320
>> And I've thought about whether I should

2138
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:00,000
say this or not because I I'm afraid

2139
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:02,800
this is going to come across as being

2140
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:04,080
like a lecture.

2141
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:06,080
>> It's okay. You can. But I've had

2142
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:07,760
>> just look at me. They're expecting from

2143
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:08,400
>> your shoes.

2144
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:09,920
>> We're all friends and understand

2145
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:11,760
>> in another community and did it for a

2146
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:15,120
lot of years. I chaired a body for a lot

2147
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:18,320
of years. And I hated seeing a room fill

2148
01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:21,920
up and it happened with regularity

2149
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:25,280
when that community's regulations and

2150
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:27,600
development review processes were set up

2151
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,320
such that applicants had to come before

2152
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:34,159
us and have a public hearing. Even

2153
01:24:34,159 --> 01:24:37,360
though our hands were tied, and if the

2154
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:39,360
applicants had done certain things, they

2155
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:41,679
were going to get approved, people came

2156
01:24:41,679 --> 01:24:45,440
to the hearings, they spoke their minds,

2157
01:24:45,440 --> 01:24:47,840
and sometimes they waited for hours to

2158
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:50,639
get their opportunity to speak only for

2159
01:24:50,639 --> 01:24:53,199
somebody like me to say, "Thank you very

2160
01:24:53,199 --> 01:24:55,760
much." And then 10 minutes later to make

2161
01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:57,760
a motion because we had good legal

2162
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:00,159
counsel said, "That's all you can do."

2163
01:25:00,159 --> 01:25:02,880
and our motion contradicted the majority

2164
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:06,080
of what we heard that night. So, take

2165
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:08,639
that for what it's worth. That sucked

2166
01:25:08,639 --> 01:25:10,960
most of the time. And we've tried to set

2167
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:13,840
up our processes here. So, for example,

2168
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:17,920
if we went back a number of years now,

2169
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:19,760
subdivision plats went to the planning

2170
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:22,639
commission and city council

2171
01:25:22,639 --> 01:25:25,120
um well before the state code said they

2172
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:26,960
shouldn't do that anymore. We can't do

2173
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:28,880
that any longer. at least not to the

2174
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:33,280
city council. And the situation then was

2175
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:35,440
such that if an applicant met the

2176
01:25:35,440 --> 01:25:37,040
requirements for subdivision approval,

2177
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:39,199
they got approved. And yet we held

2178
01:25:39,199 --> 01:25:41,280
public hearings on those and invited

2179
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:44,239
people out, heard them. And a lot of

2180
01:25:44,239 --> 01:25:48,239
times alienated residents that felt like

2181
01:25:48,239 --> 01:25:50,480
we weren't listening, didn't care or

2182
01:25:50,480 --> 01:25:52,719
anything like that when

2183
01:25:52,719 --> 01:25:55,360
you know you care, but you also know

2184
01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:57,520
that you follow rules. And so we've

2185
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:02,159
tried to set up um our processes here

2186
01:26:02,159 --> 01:26:03,600
only to involve the public when that

2187
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:05,280
input, you know, really can be put into

2188
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:07,840
play. And this for me feels like that's

2189
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:09,360
kind of there's maybe a little bit of a

2190
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:11,440
gray area there compared with some

2191
01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:14,880
things. But anyway, I apologize if that

2192
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:16,639
comes across the wrong way, but I hated

2193
01:26:16,639 --> 01:26:18,800
that. So

2194
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:22,000
>> I have a question for Josh. So are you

2195
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:24,800
saying that the federal law is that any

2196
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:28,480
church can go and buy property in any

2197
01:26:28,480 --> 01:26:30,400
city

2198
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:34,400
and the city has to accommodate

2199
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:36,159
the church

2200
01:26:36,159 --> 01:26:36,800
>> I'm saying

2201
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:37,840
>> any church

2202
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:39,679
>> if the city has a law that places a

2203
01:26:39,679 --> 01:26:42,159
substantial burden on the exercise of

2204
01:26:42,159 --> 01:26:44,159
that religion for any church worship any

2205
01:26:44,159 --> 01:26:46,719
of those things and that's a pretty

2206
01:26:46,719 --> 01:26:50,480
simple um thing for the rel religious

2207
01:26:50,480 --> 01:26:52,880
institution to articulate, right? If

2208
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:55,199
they can say any reason why this is this

2209
01:26:55,199 --> 01:26:57,600
restriction or that regulation is a

2210
01:26:57,600 --> 01:26:59,120
substantial burden on them, then the

2211
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:01,760
burden shifts back under federal law to

2212
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:05,679
the city to articulate why we have a

2213
01:27:05,679 --> 01:27:08,639
compelling interest for that regulation

2214
01:27:08,639 --> 01:27:11,120
and why that regulation is the least

2215
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:13,679
restrictive manner of imposing that

2216
01:27:13,679 --> 01:27:15,199
regulation. Right? So, I'm not saying

2217
01:27:15,199 --> 01:27:17,280
that the church can move in anywhere and

2218
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:19,840
just say you have to let me in. Right.

2219
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:21,760
The church, the city just has to be able

2220
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:25,120
to articulate why we have this rule and

2221
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:26,880
that it's done in the least restrictive

2222
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:29,199
manner and that gives religious

2223
01:27:29,199 --> 01:27:31,280
institutions a lot of power which we

2224
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:33,520
want under our first amendment rights

2225
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:36,320
generally. Right? The cities and

2226
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:38,880
government are not going to impose um

2227
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:40,400
restrictions on the free exercise of

2228
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:42,159
religion. Right. Generally,

2229
01:27:42,159 --> 01:27:44,000
>> right? It's not the exercise of religion

2230
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:46,239
though, but it's about the building and

2231
01:27:46,239 --> 01:27:48,080
the impact on the neighborhood. But

2232
01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:50,800
buildings are part of the exercise of

2233
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:53,040
religion. Most buildings, religious

2234
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:54,480
institutions will believe their

2235
01:27:54,480 --> 01:27:56,480
buildings are sacred and part of their

2236
01:27:56,480 --> 01:27:58,560
exercise. They're designed in such a way

2237
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:00,960
to be symbolic and all of those things.

2238
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:02,960
>> I understand that. But would lowering

2239
01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:04,400
the height [clears throat] restrictions,

2240
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:07,280
would that be considered being too

2241
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:08,080
restrictive?

2242
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:10,080
>> Typically, it has been. Yes.

2243
01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:12,400
>> There's many without steeples.

2244
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:13,360
>> I don't disagree

2245
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:14,159
>> in the country.

2246
01:28:14,159 --> 01:28:15,840
>> I'm just saying that federal law and

2247
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:17,840
federal cases, they've won. They've make

2248
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:20,159
they'll you know I think that's

2249
01:28:20,159 --> 01:28:23,360
something we should give the the church

2250
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:25,120
more credit for that they're willing to

2251
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:26,000
work with people.

2252
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:26,480
>> Sure.

2253
01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:28,239
>> And like the way I'm hearing is they're

2254
01:28:28,239 --> 01:28:29,520
not they're just going to railroad

2255
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:33,199
everybody. And I you know I think they I

2256
01:28:33,199 --> 01:28:35,040
would think they would appreciate have

2257
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:36,239
public comment and understand what

2258
01:28:36,239 --> 01:28:40,480
people want to see and would understand.

2259
01:28:40,480 --> 01:28:42,480
>> I they're not just a big bully that's

2260
01:28:42,480 --> 01:28:44,400
gonna come in and do what they want.

2261
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:47,280
>> Yeah. I I can't speak against that. I I

2262
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:49,600
all I'm saying is if the religious

2263
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:52,080
institution wants

2264
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:55,760
um a certain steeple height and they say

2265
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:57,920
what your restriction on that is

2266
01:28:57,920 --> 01:28:59,360
creating a substantial burden on the

2267
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:01,760
exercise of our religion without a

2268
01:29:01,760 --> 01:29:03,280
compelling interest and without doing

2269
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:04,639
the least restrictive manner. I know I'm

2270
01:29:04,639 --> 01:29:06,239
repeating myself. We're going to lose

2271
01:29:06,239 --> 01:29:08,800
that lawsuit. And in my mind, this is a

2272
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:10,960
way of not just punting and saying do

2273
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:12,560
whatever you want. We're actually still

2274
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:14,239
putting in here's some conditions. We're

2275
01:29:14,239 --> 01:29:15,360
talking about setbacks. We're talking

2276
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:16,480
about height. We're talking about

2277
01:29:16,480 --> 01:29:18,000
non-combustible materials. We're talking

2278
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:19,360
about a compelling interest with fire

2279
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:21,280
and some of those things. So, we're not

2280
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:25,280
just rolling over. We're creating trying

2281
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:27,280
to articulate and this has been our best

2282
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:29,679
effort from legal and from um community

2283
01:29:29,679 --> 01:29:31,520
development as well, working together at

2284
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:34,639
creating law that we feel like still

2285
01:29:34,639 --> 01:29:37,120
articulates or still um provides for our

2286
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:38,960
compelling interest of of fighting fires

2287
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:41,440
in these kinds of buildings with the

2288
01:29:41,440 --> 01:29:43,360
least in the least restrictive manner.

2289
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:44,800
And I don't think anybody here is trying

2290
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:46,560
to say we want to restrict anything

2291
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:48,560
along those lines. We just want to we

2292
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:49,520
want to make sure it doesn't have a

2293
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:51,120
negative impact on the city

2294
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:52,960
>> or help give some guidance on what we'd

2295
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:54,159
like to see in our city.

2296
01:29:54,159 --> 01:29:54,639
>> Right.

2297
01:29:54,639 --> 01:29:56,719
>> There have been Spanish Fork is not

2298
01:29:56,719 --> 01:29:58,400
every other town in Utah wherever

2299
01:29:58,400 --> 01:29:59,440
somebody wants to build this. It's

2300
01:29:59,440 --> 01:30:00,400
special to us.

2301
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:00,639
>> Sure.

2302
01:30:00,639 --> 01:30:03,520
>> And we'd like to have uh

2303
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:05,760
>> the elected officials or appointed be

2304
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:07,920
able to have a chance to say that. I I I

2305
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:09,600
mean I know there there have been cases

2306
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:11,120
recently in the last couple years where

2307
01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:12,800
a steeple height

2308
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:15,679
>> was challenged and

2309
01:30:15,679 --> 01:30:16,560
>> the city lost.

2310
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:18,239
>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. So

2311
01:30:18,239 --> 01:30:22,080
>> So I don't disagree with you that there could be public input in these

2312
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:24,480
things, but in this case our our only

2313
01:30:24,480 --> 01:30:27,600
city regulation that is even up to

2314
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:30,080
debate or discussion is the height of

2315
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:30,800
the church.

2316
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:31,199
>> Yeah.

2317
01:30:31,199 --> 01:30:33,760
>> Right. And so having a public forum and

2318
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:35,440
a public opinion about all of this,

2319
01:30:35,440 --> 01:30:36,719
there's going to be a lot of discussion

2320
01:30:36,719 --> 01:30:39,440
potentially not related to that one

2321
01:30:39,440 --> 01:30:41,920
issue.

2322
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:44,000
>> Dave, what's the tallest building in

2323
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:45,520
Spanish Fork

2324
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:46,880
>> hospital?

2325
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:49,040
>> How many feet high is that?

2326
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:51,199
>> Anybody want to do some quick research

2327
01:30:51,199 --> 01:30:54,159
for us? Let's let's not we could guess.

2328
01:30:54,159 --> 01:30:56,960
Let's not wing it. Uh it's less than 100

2329
01:30:56,960 --> 01:30:57,600
feet tall.

2330
01:30:57,600 --> 01:30:59,280
>> Okay.

2331
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:00,480
>> The other thing I'd say just with

2332
01:31:00,480 --> 01:31:02,000
respect to it gets close.

2333
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:04,000
>> This item on the agenda, right, is it's

2334
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:06,159
a title 15 change.

2335
01:31:06,159 --> 01:31:07,520
>> We can we can look at that.

2336
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:08,080
>> Okay.

2337
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:09,840
>> So, sorry, while they're looking that

2338
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:12,480
up, but um because it's title 15 change,

2339
01:31:12,480 --> 01:31:14,080
you'd either make a recommendation to

2340
01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:16,000
the city council to approve this change

2341
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:19,360
or make a negative recommendation to the

2342
01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:21,120
city council, right, as part of this

2343
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:23,360
instead of and then based off what the

2344
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:26,159
city council does, we could change our

2345
01:31:26,159 --> 01:31:27,600
positions. They would certainly hear all

2346
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:31,280
of the information, input that you've um

2347
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:33,440
or review, maybe not listen to the whole

2348
01:31:33,440 --> 01:31:34,719
thing, but review all the input you're

2349
01:31:34,719 --> 01:31:36,800
giving tonight. Depends on how much

2350
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:37,199
longer

2351
01:31:37,199 --> 01:31:38,719
>> they're going to watch it twice. A good

2352
01:31:38,719 --> 01:31:39,280
choice of words.

2353
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:40,960
>> This meeting will have a public hearing,

2354
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:41,679
though. Correct.

2355
01:31:41,679 --> 01:31:43,600
>> We have public hearing tonight. Yes. So,

2356
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:46,159
people have opportunity tonight, right?

2357
01:31:46,159 --> 01:31:46,560
>> Correct.

2358
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:50,000
>> There's just not a plan like there's

2359
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:53,440
just not a presentation and a plan like

2360
01:31:53,440 --> 01:31:56,400
>> citizens of our city. Yeah. Right.

2361
01:31:56,400 --> 01:31:56,960
Correct.

2362
01:31:56,960 --> 01:32:01,600
>> Um I have one just

2363
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:04,639
I I appreciate what our chair has said

2364
01:32:04,639 --> 01:32:07,360
about setbacks. I think setbacks would

2365
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:11,360
be a good thing to add to add to this. I

2366
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:13,360
also

2367
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:16,320
ha I I also wonder I I really appreciate

2368
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:18,560
what you said about having a phototric

2369
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:20,960
plan like and what you said about

2370
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:23,760
limiting limiting light spillover. I

2371
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:25,280
think that's awesome. Um I really

2372
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:29,199
appreciate those uh I really appreciate

2373
01:32:29,199 --> 01:32:31,440
that in the code. So thank you very

2374
01:32:31,440 --> 01:32:35,760
much. Um one thing I wonder is are there

2375
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:40,320
other

2376
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:43,199
temples throughout Utah that they have

2377
01:32:43,199 --> 01:32:46,080
to have their lights dimmer like between

2378
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:49,040
like 11 and 4 a.m. or something like

2379
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:52,000
that. Like not off but dimmer. I don't

2380
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:56,719
know if that's a thing or not, but I

2381
01:32:56,719 --> 01:32:57,520
>> I don't

2382
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:00,000
>> you ask the owner and they would

2383
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:01,440
>> anyways. Yeah,

2384
01:33:01,440 --> 01:33:05,440
>> that's I and I think I mean I'm I'm not

2385
01:33:05,440 --> 01:33:08,400
a direct neighbor, but I I think it

2386
01:33:08,400 --> 01:33:11,360
would could be something that would be a

2387
01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:13,520
little bit but if you're looking at that

2388
01:33:13,520 --> 01:33:16,480
limiting your light spillover, I guess,

2389
01:33:16,480 --> 01:33:19,199
and if setbacks.

2390
01:33:19,199 --> 01:33:21,600
So, I don't know. That's just some

2391
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:22,880
Anyway,

2392
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:24,480
>> and I just want to be clear, unless I'm

2393
01:33:24,480 --> 01:33:26,320
told otherwise, I would only be told

2394
01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:28,080
otherwise if it is for the benefit of

2395
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:30,159
the city, I'm more than happy to put

2396
01:33:30,159 --> 01:33:32,560
together like an alternate proposal that

2397
01:33:32,560 --> 01:33:34,560
involves a conditional use kind of a

2398
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:36,719
route for the for the council to

2399
01:33:36,719 --> 01:33:38,800
consider. Certainly happy to do that if

2400
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:40,560
that

2401
01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:47,990
is of interest. So,

2402
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:50,320
» so we need to Oh, we have to have public

2403
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:51,120
comment.

2404
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:51,840
>> I'd be I'd be curious.

2405
01:33:51,840 --> 01:33:52,960
>> We're scheduled for that and we

2406
01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:54,560
advertised for that. So, yes.

2407
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:55,600
>> Yes.

2408
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:56,560
>> Just waiting for us to be done

2409
01:33:56,560 --> 01:33:57,520
interrogating you before

2410
01:33:57,520 --> 01:33:59,840
>> you told me when you were on. [laughter]

2411
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:00,880
>> Did you know you were going to be

2412
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:03,199
interrogated by

2413
01:34:03,199 --> 01:34:05,760
>> and have any other questions for staff?

2414
01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:08,800
>> The hospital is 83 feet tall.

2415
01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:11,360
>> 83 feet tall. Thank you. In what what

2416
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:13,679
area? Industrial or commercial?

2417
01:34:13,679 --> 01:34:15,199
>> It's

2418
01:34:15,199 --> 01:34:16,480
business park, I believe.

2419
01:34:16,480 --> 01:34:17,199
>> The zone. Yeah,

2420
01:34:17,199 --> 01:34:18,560
>> business park.

2421
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:20,560
>> Park.

2422
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:22,719
>> Okay. Well, thanks Dave. We may be

2423
01:34:22,719 --> 01:34:24,560
calling you back up depending on what we

2424
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:28,480
hear. Um, this is a public hearing uh on

2425
01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:31,440
this title 15 amendment. If any of you

2426
01:34:31,440 --> 01:34:33,360
are here to speak on this matter, please

2427
01:34:33,360 --> 01:34:36,320
come up and address us now.

2428
01:34:36,320 --> 01:34:37,760
Please state your name as you come up

2429
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:44,790
and then your questions or concerns.

2430
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:49,360
» Hello, my name is Amber Edson. Um,

2431
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:51,920
listening at the beginning, I think I

2432
01:34:51,920 --> 01:34:53,360
was confused why we were talking about

2433
01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:54,800
it, so it makes sense. It's a legal

2434
01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:57,840
thing. Um,

2435
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:01,840
but I was I think if the public is going

2436
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:03,520
to be

2437
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:06,400
denied all in doing to due to have to

2438
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:10,880
having to approve it to avoid a lawsuit.

2439
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:13,360
Um, my question would be, can you let

2440
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:15,600
them know that you have to approve it,

2441
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:17,040
but you're holding the hearing so that

2442
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:19,920
you can collect input? I don't know. All

2443
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:21,679
of that was just really confusing to me.

2444
01:35:21,679 --> 01:35:24,480
But I was like,

2445
01:35:24,480 --> 01:35:26,639
that seems really, really bad to have

2446
01:35:26,639 --> 01:35:28,159
the city also in a position where

2447
01:35:28,159 --> 01:35:29,600
they're like, yes, come and share your

2448
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:31,679
opinions and we're going to do exactly

2449
01:35:31,679 --> 01:35:35,840
the opposite if his experiences in the

2450
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:38,400
past play into it. So, we'll see. I was

2451
01:35:38,400 --> 01:35:39,440
just trying to think through it with

2452
01:35:39,440 --> 01:35:41,840
everyone. But yeah, that's all.

2453
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:50,390
>> Thank you.

2454
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:53,040
Okay. Anybody else? Seeing none, I'll

2455
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:56,239
close the public hearing,

2456
01:35:56,239 --> 01:35:59,040
commissioners,

2457
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:02,000
opinions, comments.

2458
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:05,440
>> This is an interesting one. I I mean I I

2459
01:36:05,440 --> 01:36:06,960
don't think it's worth our while to get

2460
01:36:06,960 --> 01:36:10,400
into lawsuits over um religious

2461
01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:14,239
buildings, quite honestly. I though feel

2462
01:36:14,239 --> 01:36:16,400
very strongly that public input is

2463
01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:19,120
necessary. I I think back a couple uh

2464
01:36:19,120 --> 01:36:21,199
meetings we had uh not related to a

2465
01:36:21,199 --> 01:36:24,080
religious building. We discussed uh the

2466
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:25,520
construction of a power line in the

2467
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:28,400
river bottoms and to align with what uh

2468
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:31,440
put us in alignment with state policy.

2469
01:36:31,440 --> 01:36:33,760
We had to make a title 15 change to

2470
01:36:33,760 --> 01:36:35,840
where we couldn't uh you know have any

2471
01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:37,280
hearing on that because our hands were

2472
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:39,280
bound. I actually voted no on that one.

2473
01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:41,600
And I think I was we're not talking

2474
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:42,880
about fighting the federal government

2475
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:45,040
here, but I think my frustration there

2476
01:36:45,040 --> 01:36:48,159
was that I don't think that uh the other

2477
01:36:48,159 --> 01:36:50,159
um public entities had done a good job

2478
01:36:50,159 --> 01:36:51,520
of having a public hearing for that

2479
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:53,360
particular thing. So that that was part

2480
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:55,679
of why I voted no on that. In a strange

2481
01:36:55,679 --> 01:36:57,040
way, I'm almost feeling the opposite

2482
01:36:57,040 --> 01:37:00,560
here um for voting yes on this because

2483
01:37:00,560 --> 01:37:04,159
with only one exception, I really feel

2484
01:37:04,159 --> 01:37:06,960
like the public, to your point, Dave,

2485
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:08,000
when you talked about some of those

2486
01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:10,639
meetings suck, I think sometimes we have

2487
01:37:10,639 --> 01:37:13,040
to kind of take input,

2488
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:16,320
get that input, and even if we can't do

2489
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:17,920
anything about it, I think it's good,

2490
01:37:17,920 --> 01:37:19,520
worthwhile to have a forum where people

2491
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:22,320
can come say things. And I and I'll tell

2492
01:37:22,320 --> 01:37:24,719
you what, you know, I think here in city

2493
01:37:24,719 --> 01:37:26,639
government, we have a really good form,

2494
01:37:26,639 --> 01:37:28,239
which is so weird because I feel on the

2495
01:37:28,239 --> 01:37:29,840
other side here, though, when it comes

2496
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:32,400
to these religious institutions, we're

2497
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:34,880
not we're not going to have an effect

2498
01:37:34,880 --> 01:37:36,560
here. So, I feel a little conflicted,

2499
01:37:36,560 --> 01:37:38,639
but I'm I'm putting pros and cons in

2500
01:37:38,639 --> 01:37:40,000
terms of supporting this. I've got more

2501
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:41,920
pros written down here from the

2502
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:43,679
presentation you gave, but it still

2503
01:37:43,679 --> 01:37:47,280
feels strange to me. So, that's the

2504
01:37:47,280 --> 01:37:49,280
place I sit, which is feels really

2505
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:52,480
weird. If I might comment though, uh,

2506
01:37:52,480 --> 01:37:56,639
Paul, that that the utility company,

2507
01:37:56,639 --> 01:37:58,320
I agree, they didn't do a great job with

2508
01:37:58,320 --> 01:38:01,199
their public presentation, but they did

2509
01:38:01,199 --> 01:38:03,679
do public presentations. They

2510
01:38:03,679 --> 01:38:05,440
>> they weren't advertised well. They may

2511
01:38:05,440 --> 01:38:07,119
not had good attendance at them.

2512
01:38:07,119 --> 01:38:08,080
>> Perhaps that was my

2513
01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:08,800
>> They still did it.

2514
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:09,600
>> Yeah.

2515
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:11,600
>> And in some ways though, it's like like

2516
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:13,520
right now, I think I think if the p

2517
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:14,800
Well, perhaps they're not advertised

2518
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:16,080
well. We always have these meetings all

2519
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:17,360
the time, but I think the public would

2520
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:18,800
have quite an interest if they knew what

2521
01:38:18,800 --> 01:38:20,159
we were talking about right now. And I

2522
01:38:20,159 --> 01:38:22,400
just don't feel like they really do.

2523
01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:25,520
>> So again, I'm conflicted, but I I'm I'm

2524
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:27,760
inclined to support this, which again

2525
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:30,480
feels conflicted. So

2526
01:38:30,480 --> 01:38:32,159
>> I think I feel bad for the optics

2527
01:38:32,159 --> 01:38:34,320
because it looks like it's to me I'm

2528
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:35,920
talking about myself that we're just

2529
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:37,280
we'll do this and then it just goes

2530
01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:38,400
around everybody. Nobody's going to have

2531
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:40,800
a comment. But I also don't want to sit

2532
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:42,639
here till 11 o'clock at night for

2533
01:38:42,639 --> 01:38:44,719
nothing. I mean, I like you guys. Don't

2534
01:38:44,719 --> 01:38:47,840
get me wrong, but like bottom line is no

2535
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:49,760
matter what we say what happens, it's

2536
01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:50,880
going to happen.

2537
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:52,480
>> I don't I don't think you'd be sitting

2538
01:38:52,480 --> 01:38:54,368
here for nothing. Um myself

2539
01:38:54,368 --> 01:38:57,920
[clears throat] because um I mean we

2540
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:00,480
know the buildings they're planning.

2541
01:39:00,480 --> 01:39:02,320
It's a temple

2542
01:39:02,320 --> 01:39:04,080
and it's coming to the neighborhood.

2543
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:07,360
It's going to be built. Um you know, we

2544
01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:08,480
know what they look like because we got

2545
01:39:08,480 --> 01:39:10,320
one in PAC. There's one in Orm right of

2546
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:13,280
three-way everybody can see.

2547
01:39:13,280 --> 01:39:15,199
But I think the people in those

2548
01:39:15,199 --> 01:39:16,719
neighborhoods and throughout town

2549
01:39:16,719 --> 01:39:18,239
deserve

2550
01:39:18,239 --> 01:39:21,199
to have their voices heard.

2551
01:39:21,199 --> 01:39:23,679
And you know, and when people do voice

2552
01:39:23,679 --> 01:39:25,199
their opinions, sometimes there's some

2553
01:39:25,199 --> 01:39:27,440
really good things that come out of it.

2554
01:39:27,440 --> 01:39:29,040
>> Oh, I I think we'll have positive and

2555
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:30,239
negative issues. So

2556
01:39:30,239 --> 01:39:30,880
>> in the end,

2557
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:32,800
>> you know, and I think we know in which

2558
01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:34,719
direction the the majority of the people

2559
01:39:34,719 --> 01:39:38,320
in this community are going to go,

2560
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:40,400
>> you know, because there's excitement for

2561
01:39:40,400 --> 01:39:42,960
this building to come in and, you know,

2562
01:39:42,960 --> 01:39:45,760
but at the same time, I think, you know,

2563
01:39:45,760 --> 01:39:47,360
the city shouldn't just roll over and

2564
01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:48,719
say, you know, we're going to do

2565
01:39:48,719 --> 01:39:51,199
whatever you want, let you do do

2566
01:39:51,199 --> 01:39:55,119
whatever you want here. Um,

2567
01:39:55,119 --> 01:39:57,760
but I I do believe that we need to, you

2568
01:39:57,760 --> 01:39:59,760
know, I wouldn't I would I'm not in

2569
01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:01,280
favor of the this change on the

2570
01:40:01,280 --> 01:40:04,639
amendment at this time because I I want

2571
01:40:04,639 --> 01:40:06,719
to hear from the people in those

2572
01:40:06,719 --> 01:40:09,440
neighborhoods and the people, you know,

2573
01:40:09,440 --> 01:40:11,119
that are going to be their lives are

2574
01:40:11,119 --> 01:40:12,719
going to be impacted by this

2575
01:40:12,719 --> 01:40:14,960
>> 100%.

2576
01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:16,320
>> Which I I agree with everything you

2577
01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:18,000
said. It's just in the end it won't

2578
01:40:18,000 --> 01:40:20,159
matter.

2579
01:40:20,159 --> 01:40:22,480
>> I think it will to a point. you they'll

2580
01:40:22,480 --> 01:40:23,920
feel better. We may feel better. We may

2581
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:24,560
feel worse.

2582
01:40:24,560 --> 01:40:25,920
>> We might get there might be something

2583
01:40:25,920 --> 01:40:27,199
because we don't know, you know, like

2584
01:40:27,199 --> 01:40:29,040
we've talked about, we have no idea what

2585
01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:31,199
the plan is for the building. Might be a

2586
01:40:31,199 --> 01:40:33,760
new style. Might, you know, whatever.

2587
01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:36,080
Um, but there could be, you know, some

2588
01:40:36,080 --> 01:40:38,320
concessions made lighting, so it's not,

2589
01:40:38,320 --> 01:40:39,360
you know, I know they made some

2590
01:40:39,360 --> 01:40:42,800
concessions in Heber on the lighting,

2591
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:45,199
you know, for those people and, you

2592
01:40:45,199 --> 01:40:47,119
know, things like that. So, I think it's

2593
01:40:47,119 --> 01:40:48,994
valuable. You had hope that the entity

2594
01:40:48,994 --> 01:40:49,520
[clears throat]

2595
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:52,000
would would take into consideration and

2596
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:54,880
where they could make changes to make

2597
01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:57,040
any negative comments

2598
01:40:57,040 --> 01:40:58,000
>> be a better name.

2599
01:40:58,000 --> 01:40:59,360
>> Yeah. Be a better neighbor.

2600
01:40:59,360 --> 01:41:01,520
>> Just like we' we talked about tree

2601
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:03,520
trimming tonight. We've talked about a

2602
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:05,760
sixoot fence. Just like we'd help from

2603
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:07,679
any other resident or applicant comes

2604
01:41:07,679 --> 01:41:08,159
before us.

2605
01:41:08,159 --> 01:41:10,560
>> And those are much smaller things. What

2606
01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:14,400
if we did something? What What if like I said, I said I'm apply to approve

2607
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:16,560
this or that's kind of where I'm

2608
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:17,920
feeling.

2609
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:20,000
Does the change have to be made now? I

2610
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:22,159
mean, could this be made the exact same

2611
01:41:22,159 --> 01:41:23,280
change made later?

2612
01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:25,199
>> It could be made when they present it.

2613
01:41:25,199 --> 01:41:26,639
>> Like I said before, we have done this

2614
01:41:26,639 --> 01:41:29,760
literally in concurrent

2615
01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:31,440
kind of a little bit out of order in

2616
01:41:31,440 --> 01:41:32,639
past meetings, but it didn't matter

2617
01:41:32,639 --> 01:41:33,920
because it was in the same meeting.

2618
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:35,679
>> That would feel better to me quite

2619
01:41:35,679 --> 01:41:37,280
honestly

2620
01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:38,719
if we had more of a sense of what we

2621
01:41:38,719 --> 01:41:40,800
were looking at or or by we I mean the

2622
01:41:40,800 --> 01:41:42,560
community had more of a sense. My

2623
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:45,040
concern my concern about that is if we

2624
01:41:45,040 --> 01:41:48,000
are holding up timetables

2625
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:50,560
uh and further progress and

2626
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:54,239
announcements on something like that.

2627
01:41:54,239 --> 01:41:56,960
>> I I I mean we've we've held up a lot of

2628
01:41:56,960 --> 01:41:59,840
projects to get more information. Why

2629
01:41:59,840 --> 01:42:01,440
make an exception for when there's a lot

2630
01:42:01,440 --> 01:42:02,159
of concern about

2631
01:42:02,159 --> 01:42:07,760
>> you know and what if this was a different entity

2632
01:42:07,760 --> 01:42:10,560
presenting on this

2633
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:13,679
the community would feel different and

2634
01:42:13,679 --> 01:42:16,480
many of the

2635
01:42:16,480 --> 01:42:18,639
city everybody would feel different

2636
01:42:18,639 --> 01:42:19,840
about it I feel

2637
01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:23,199
>> I think with the other entities

2638
01:42:23,199 --> 01:42:24,800
if I'm holding up a developer that

2639
01:42:24,800 --> 01:42:26,480
doesn't really make me feel too bad

2640
01:42:26,480 --> 01:42:28,639
about things when I'm doing somebody's

2641
01:42:28,639 --> 01:42:30,960
religion and and their their ability to

2642
01:42:30,960 --> 01:42:32,800
practice that in their own community

2643
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:34,960
that I can be sensitive to that.

2644
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:36,639
>> And there's a reason why there's I think

2645
01:42:36,639 --> 01:42:37,920
this one of the few times we've had to

2646
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:39,920
talk federal law here, right? There's

2647
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:41,840
reasons why that's in place.

2648
01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:43,040
>> We actually talked about it quite a bit,

2649
01:42:43,040 --> 01:42:45,360
at least state law, because we're often

2650
01:42:45,360 --> 01:42:46,560
pushing back against what the state

2651
01:42:46,560 --> 01:42:47,679
wants us to.

2652
01:42:47,679 --> 01:42:49,440
>> They're more of the the friction point,

2653
01:42:49,440 --> 01:42:50,880
aren't they?

2654
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:52,639
So, we have this conversation at the

2655
01:42:52,639 --> 01:42:55,119
school district about

2656
01:42:55,119 --> 01:42:57,920
the timing of when people can come and

2657
01:42:57,920 --> 01:43:01,520
comment on budgets when we pass the

2658
01:43:01,520 --> 01:43:03,920
budget. And maybe you have this in the

2659
01:43:03,920 --> 01:43:05,920
city as well, like you have to build

2660
01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:07,679
your budget and pass your budget by

2661
01:43:07,679 --> 01:43:11,280
something like June, but you don't have

2662
01:43:11,280 --> 01:43:15,360
um the truth and taxation hearing until

2663
01:43:15,360 --> 01:43:17,840
August. And by then all the decisions

2664
01:43:17,840 --> 01:43:20,239
are made, but you hear everybody and you

2665
01:43:20,239 --> 01:43:22,000
hear them out and there it just seems

2666
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:23,520
like there's something very wrong with

2667
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:25,840
that. And this the state has been

2668
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:28,880
working on changing that and they did

2669
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:30,639
change it a little bit this year. So

2670
01:43:30,639 --> 01:43:32,080
that there has to be some more some

2671
01:43:32,080 --> 01:43:37,030
noticing ahead of time. But

2672
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:39,280
anyway, so that's that's one part

2673
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:40,480
because they're like, I'm coming and

2674
01:43:40,480 --> 01:43:42,960
complaining because you got but you guys

2675
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:44,800
have already made your decision and why

2676
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:46,159
am I even here? Well, they're here

2677
01:43:46,159 --> 01:43:49,440
because they they need to speak up and

2678
01:43:49,440 --> 01:43:52,400
have say what they have to say. And

2679
01:43:52,400 --> 01:43:55,360
honestly, part of it of of hearing

2680
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:56,800
voices, whether you're going to make

2681
01:43:56,800 --> 01:43:58,880
that decision or not, is the public buy

2682
01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:01,520
in and that you really care about what

2683
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:04,719
people have to say. And so there's kind

2684
01:44:04,719 --> 01:44:08,080
of I I also am on on both sides of that

2685
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:11,840
fence. I know that it's horrible

2686
01:44:11,840 --> 01:44:15,679
>> uh to have to be there so late and And

2687
01:44:15,679 --> 01:44:19,040
often people that are angry and unhappy

2688
01:44:19,040 --> 01:44:20,800
with it are the ones that come and speak

2689
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:23,440
the loudest about it. And then you make

2690
01:44:23,440 --> 01:44:25,679
a decision based on how you feel like

2691
01:44:25,679 --> 01:44:28,960
everybody altogether would feel about

2692
01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:30,480
it.

2693
01:44:30,480 --> 01:44:32,080
So

2694
01:44:32,080 --> 01:44:33,760
I don't know. That's a lot of different

2695
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:34,639
opinions.

2696
01:44:34,639 --> 01:44:35,520
>> Yeah. I'm not sure where you're going

2697
01:44:35,520 --> 01:44:36,000
with that.

2698
01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:37,360
>> I don't know where I'm going with that

2699
01:44:37,360 --> 01:44:40,639
either. I really am I'm really torn on

2700
01:44:40,639 --> 01:44:44,320
that because uh I

2701
01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:47,199
I'm really torn. I think public I think

2702
01:44:47,199 --> 01:44:50,400
public comment is good

2703
01:44:50,400 --> 01:44:52,880
in general,

2704
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:55,119
but if we're going to just make the

2705
01:44:55,119 --> 01:44:57,280
decision, do we just make the decision

2706
01:44:57,280 --> 01:45:00,080
and let it move forward? And how many

2707
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:02,719
people care about coming and having

2708
01:45:02,719 --> 01:45:04,960
public comment about it? I don't know

2709
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:06,320
how many people care, but I think it is

2710
01:45:06,320 --> 01:45:08,639
a right that in my mind it is a right

2711
01:45:08,639 --> 01:45:11,199
that we have and we should protect that.

2712
01:45:11,199 --> 01:45:13,440
I uh

2713
01:45:13,440 --> 01:45:15,920
I've had many actually I don't know some

2714
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:18,400
of you haven't had any. I not happy

2715
01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:20,239
about that [laughter]

2716
01:45:20,239 --> 01:45:22,320
but we've had several meet in the

2717
01:45:22,320 --> 01:45:25,360
morning time on topics that were I don't

2718
01:45:25,360 --> 01:45:29,920
think as consequential as this. And I I

2719
01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:32,320
think we should let them have their say.

2720
01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:34,080
I've I've been through it. It was not

2721
01:45:34,080 --> 01:45:37,199
fun. It was not pretty. Um, there's

2722
01:45:37,199 --> 01:45:38,480
people probably still mad at me to this

2723
01:45:38,480 --> 01:45:40,800
day on some of the stances I took then.

2724
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:44,239
>> That's okay. It's it's it's just what I

2725
01:45:44,239 --> 01:45:46,320
you you vote how you feel is the best

2726
01:45:46,320 --> 01:45:48,719
representation of what our city wants or

2727
01:45:48,719 --> 01:45:51,040
needs and you go from there.

2728
01:45:51,040 --> 01:45:56,639
>> Um, if it's for the applicant or for the voice of the people, we they need to

2729
01:45:56,639 --> 01:46:00,080
be heard. And I think that uh I think

2730
01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:02,320
we'd be doing a disservice if we're

2731
01:46:02,320 --> 01:46:04,239
treating this I mean we have to be

2732
01:46:04,239 --> 01:46:05,600
sensitive because it is a religious

2733
01:46:05,600 --> 01:46:07,760
there is a religious aspect to it and

2734
01:46:07,760 --> 01:46:11,679
how uh Josh has explained the church churches are looked at in federal

2735
01:46:11,679 --> 01:46:16,400
law but I think in my mind I I I like

2736
01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:18,560
the idea that we've talked about of

2737
01:46:18,560 --> 01:46:20,880
somehow putting it in there that either

2738
01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:22,400
we're adjusting this title 15 at the

2739
01:46:22,400 --> 01:46:24,320
time that the applicant makes a an

2740
01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:26,719
application or that we have this so it

2741
01:46:26,719 --> 01:46:29,440
is a conditional use so that we have a

2742
01:46:29,440 --> 01:46:33,520
public hearing on it at that time.

2743
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:35,119
>> I like the idea when the applicant has

2744
01:46:35,119 --> 01:46:37,520
an application or at least there's

2745
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:39,520
general public understanding of what

2746
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:40,400
we're dealing with.

2747
01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:40,960
>> Yeah.

2748
01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:43,119
>> Be aware also that all this debate we're

2749
01:46:43,119 --> 01:46:44,400
having is then going to go to the

2750
01:46:44,400 --> 01:46:45,840
council and it'll probably take them

2751
01:46:45,840 --> 01:46:47,938
about 15 seconds to say something.

2752
01:46:47,938 --> 01:46:49,119
[laughter]

2753
01:46:49,119 --> 01:46:51,360
>> Say thank you planning commission.

2754
01:46:51,360 --> 01:46:52,719
>> They're going to say we watched that and

2755
01:46:52,719 --> 01:46:54,800
listen we love your points. then we can

2756
01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:57,119
always say, hey, we push for public

2757
01:46:57,119 --> 01:46:59,520
impe. I do I do agree. I think every one

2758
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:01,199
of us here thinks that we would love to

2759
01:47:01,199 --> 01:47:03,440
hear what the public had to say to a

2760
01:47:03,440 --> 01:47:04,239
point.

2761
01:47:04,239 --> 01:47:06,400
>> And I think it's it's it's concerning to

2762
01:47:06,400 --> 01:47:08,080
me and I know there's there may or may

2763
01:47:08,080 --> 01:47:09,119
not be anything we can do about it, but

2764
01:47:09,119 --> 01:47:10,880
the the complaints we hear the most

2765
01:47:10,880 --> 01:47:13,600
about from when we do have public

2766
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:17,440
hearings is traffic

2767
01:47:17,440 --> 01:47:21,280
and um the impact that's going to have

2768
01:47:21,280 --> 01:47:23,920
on the neighborhood. And I mean I don't

2769
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:25,280
think the other one is crime coming in

2770
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:26,320
the neighborhood. I don't think this is

2771
01:47:26,320 --> 01:47:27,199
going to bring any crime in the

2772
01:47:27,199 --> 01:47:27,520
neighbor.

2773
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:28,159
>> Crime driver

2774
01:47:28,159 --> 01:47:30,880
>> hope to drive it away. But uh

2775
01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:33,199
>> two of the things we hear the most about

2776
01:47:33,199 --> 01:47:35,360
um

2777
01:47:35,360 --> 01:47:37,119
you know people don't have a chance to

2778
01:47:37,119 --> 01:47:39,119
address that and there will be a big

2779
01:47:39,119 --> 01:47:40,800
traffic impact in this area.

2780
01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:43,280
>> So I don't know how we can deal with

2781
01:47:43,280 --> 01:47:46,239
that legally. I I not my cup of tea.

2782
01:47:46,239 --> 01:47:47,679
Will depend on you guys to guide us

2783
01:47:47,679 --> 01:47:49,440
through that. But that's my

2784
01:47:49,440 --> 01:47:52,790
recommendation.

2785
01:47:52,800 --> 01:47:54,960
With all that being said, does anyone

2786
01:47:54,960 --> 01:47:56,320
want us to take a stab at a motion?

2787
01:47:56,320 --> 01:47:57,840
>> Did you close public hearing? Did

2788
01:47:57,840 --> 01:47:59,280
>> Oh, I think I did. I did. I closed

2789
01:47:59,280 --> 01:48:00,080
public hearing.

2790
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:01,199
>> Public hearing.

2791
01:48:01,199 --> 01:48:04,239
>> I only forgot once tonight.

2792
01:48:04,239 --> 01:48:06,800
>> He's on his stuff.

2793
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:09,840
>> Are we supposed to make a motion or is

2794
01:48:09,840 --> 01:48:11,520
nobody going to make Okay, I'm going to

2795
01:48:11,520 --> 01:48:14,239
make a motion

2796
01:48:14,239 --> 01:48:15,520
because then that'll move things

2797
01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:17,440
forward, right?

2798
01:48:17,440 --> 01:48:20,080
I re I move to recommend the approval of

2799
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:22,239
the proposed title 15 amendment based on

2800
01:48:22,239 --> 01:48:28,310
the findings.

2801
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:31,199
» I have a motion. Do I have a second?

2802
01:48:31,199 --> 01:48:34,639
>> I'm going to second that.

2803
01:48:34,639 --> 01:48:37,600
>> Okay. Have a motion to second. And we're

2804
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:40,960
going to do this roll call on a yay or a

2805
01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:42,960
nay. Just so everybody has a chance to

2806
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:44,320
have their votes.

2807
01:48:44,320 --> 01:48:47,199
>> The mayor has you say yes. Oh, really?

2808
01:48:47,199 --> 01:48:47,600
Does he?

2809
01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:48,080
>> He does.

2810
01:48:48,080 --> 01:48:49,199
>> Great. Well, I'm sticking with yay or

2811
01:48:49,199 --> 01:48:49,440
nay.

2812
01:48:49,440 --> 01:48:52,239
>> Yes or no?

2813
01:48:52,239 --> 01:48:53,520
>> You're gonna get a text now.

2814
01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:55,760
>> That's okay.

2815
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:58,239
>> Um,

2816
01:48:58,239 --> 01:48:59,600
uh, if you don't mind, we'll go through

2817
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:02,000
roll call on that and you can I don't

2818
01:49:02,000 --> 01:49:04,000
care if you say yes or no. I don't care.

2819
01:49:04,000 --> 01:49:08,080
Um, if you can state your, uh, opinion

2820
01:49:08,080 --> 01:49:09,280
on there, your vote on it, and then

2821
01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:11,040
we'll tally it up at the end.

2822
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:12,000
Commissioner Carol,

2823
01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:13,440
>> nay.

2824
01:49:13,440 --> 01:49:14,320
>> Commissioner Clayson,

2825
01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:15,760
>> nay.

2826
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:18,320
I will be a nay also. Commissioner Carol

2827
01:49:18,320 --> 01:49:19,360
I mean sorry

2828
01:49:19,360 --> 01:49:20,560
>> Warick.

2829
01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:21,679
>> Yes.

2830
01:49:21,679 --> 01:49:22,719
>> Commissioner Dayton.

2831
01:49:22,719 --> 01:49:23,199
>> Yes.

2832
01:49:23,199 --> 01:49:24,239
>> Commissioner Woodhouse.

2833
01:49:24,239 --> 01:49:25,040
>> Nay.

2834
01:49:25,040 --> 01:49:27,760
>> Okay. So I have that as four to two.

2835
01:49:27,760 --> 01:49:30,239
>> So that motion would fail at that point.

2836
01:49:30,239 --> 01:49:31,199
Do we

2837
01:49:31,199 --> 01:49:33,040
>> disclose that or do we does that just go

2838
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:35,119
to the council that way or do we make a

2839
01:49:35,119 --> 01:49:36,480
>> or can we make a motion

2840
01:49:36,480 --> 01:49:37,600
>> another motion?

2841
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:39,760
>> Can we make another motion to change

2842
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:42,000
this to a conditional use? I make the

2843
01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:43,679
motion to change this to a conditional

2844
01:49:43,679 --> 01:49:44,800
use. Let's let's talk about it a little

2845
01:49:44,800 --> 01:49:46,080
bit. Maybe we talk about why we're

2846
01:49:46,080 --> 01:49:46,880
voting

2847
01:49:46,880 --> 01:49:49,520
>> cuz I don't know does that

2848
01:49:49,520 --> 01:49:51,520
>> present any other

2849
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:53,440
>> does that appeal to any of the other

2850
01:49:53,440 --> 01:49:55,280
dissenting votes or any other

2851
01:49:55,280 --> 01:49:58,320
commissioners or would you what would or

2852
01:49:58,320 --> 01:50:00,960
do we just want that to be a a nay on

2853
01:50:00,960 --> 01:50:01,360
there?

2854
01:50:01,360 --> 01:50:04,719
>> So I so I voted yes. Again the conflict

2855
01:50:04,719 --> 01:50:06,639
here I think I still won out on yes

2856
01:50:06,639 --> 01:50:08,159
because I think we're not going to

2857
01:50:08,159 --> 01:50:09,760
change anything here. So, I don't know

2858
01:50:09,760 --> 01:50:12,719
if we can somehow say this, but if we if

2859
01:50:12,719 --> 01:50:14,320
we bring this up again, I'd like to

2860
01:50:14,320 --> 01:50:17,600
bring it up concurrent to us having a

2861
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:19,679
sense of what this plan looks like. And

2862
01:50:19,679 --> 01:50:21,600
to be perfectly frank, my my inclination

2863
01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:23,920
is to vote yes at that time, too. But I

2864
01:50:23,920 --> 01:50:25,440
am more than willing to hear everyone

2865
01:50:25,440 --> 01:50:27,199
out. And I think that would be a

2866
01:50:27,199 --> 01:50:29,520
wonderful experience even if it goes for

2867
01:50:29,520 --> 01:50:30,159
a very long

2868
01:50:30,159 --> 01:50:31,280
>> wonderful time.

2869
01:50:31,280 --> 01:50:32,800
>> So, I think I would not use

2870
01:50:32,800 --> 01:50:34,320
>> what meant wonderful. I think it's a I

2871
01:50:34,320 --> 01:50:35,440
think it's a worthwhile experience.

2872
01:50:35,440 --> 01:50:36,800
>> Yeah, worthwhile. Yes, I will go with

2873
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:37,440
that.

2874
01:50:37,440 --> 01:50:39,920
>> I do too. I think you can make that

2875
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:41,920
recommendation generally, but with

2876
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:44,320
respect to this item on the agenda, it's

2877
01:50:44,320 --> 01:50:47,119
to a title 15 amendment. So you made a

2878
01:50:47,119 --> 01:50:49,040
recommend a motion to approve the title

2879
01:50:49,040 --> 01:50:51,280
15 amendment that got denied. So maybe

2880
01:50:51,280 --> 01:50:54,719
your actual motion is to deny the title

2881
01:50:54,719 --> 01:50:57,760
change title 15 amendment and then have

2882
01:50:57,760 --> 01:50:59,600
the extra explanation that what we

2883
01:50:59,600 --> 01:51:00,480
really want is this.

2884
01:51:00,480 --> 01:51:01,360
>> Right. That's what I was going to say.

2885
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:03,760
So Dave, could we have maybe as this

2886
01:51:03,760 --> 01:51:06,320
goes before the council as as a it was a

2887
01:51:06,320 --> 01:51:08,639
denied recommendation, could you express

2888
01:51:08,639 --> 01:51:11,360
to them our concerns on these points?

2889
01:51:11,360 --> 01:51:13,360
Um, Commissioner Dayton and myself kind

2890
01:51:13,360 --> 01:51:16,639
of like the idea of this being a title

2891
01:51:16,639 --> 01:51:18,480
15 adjustment would be brought up when

2892
01:51:18,480 --> 01:51:21,040
the applicant presents to the

2893
01:51:21,040 --> 01:51:22,320
commissioning council.

2894
01:51:22,320 --> 01:51:23,760
>> I would think all of us agree with what

2895
01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:24,320
you just said.

2896
01:51:24,320 --> 01:51:24,560
>> Yes.

2897
01:51:24,560 --> 01:51:27,360
>> Yeah. as either a con as either bringing

2898
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:29,760
it up to us again or as a conditional

2899
01:51:29,760 --> 01:51:32,000
use

2900
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:34,800
how whichever is the most legal way on

2901
01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:35,280
this.

2902
01:51:35,280 --> 01:51:36,960
>> Right. So, could you make the motion to

2903
01:51:36,960 --> 01:51:39,679
deny the title 15 change amendment

2904
01:51:39,679 --> 01:51:41,679
>> with the ex added explanation that this

2905
01:51:41,679 --> 01:51:43,360
is how we'd like to see it done? Or I

2906
01:51:43,360 --> 01:51:46,080
mean I'm also open to if this if the

2907
01:51:46,080 --> 01:51:48,560
staff thinks that having this be a

2908
01:51:48,560 --> 01:51:52,239
conditional use permit might give might

2909
01:51:52,239 --> 01:51:55,040
not get us in legal a legal bind. if

2910
01:51:55,040 --> 01:51:57,679
there's a way to word smith that so that

2911
01:51:57,679 --> 01:52:03,360
it could be legally correct but also um

2912
01:52:03,360 --> 01:52:05,920
and not substantially impact the the

2913
01:52:05,920 --> 01:52:11,840
applicant but give us the option to uh

2914
01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:14,080
see things make changes or recommend

2915
01:52:14,080 --> 01:52:16,480
changes and have the community have a

2916
01:52:16,480 --> 01:52:19,040
chance to speak their mind I I I think

2917
01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:20,480
would be open to that too just as long

2918
01:52:20,480 --> 01:52:23,119
as some of the the the concerns we

2919
01:52:23,119 --> 01:52:26,320
address tonight are are

2920
01:52:26,320 --> 01:52:28,400
somehow working to that adjustment.

2921
01:52:28,400 --> 01:52:30,639
>> Yeah, we're not against this and I still

2922
01:52:30,639 --> 01:52:30,880
right

2923
01:52:30,880 --> 01:52:33,360
>> I still really would support an E with

2924
01:52:33,360 --> 01:52:36,560
some kind of setback requirement. I

2925
01:52:36,560 --> 01:52:39,840
don't know do I mean but I forgot what I

2926
01:52:39,840 --> 01:52:41,840
was going to say.

2927
01:52:41,840 --> 01:52:44,000
I think it's going to pass. I mean we

2928
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:46,080
want to go with the law. We respect the

2929
01:52:46,080 --> 01:52:48,960
word houses of worship and if we're

2930
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:51,199
being technical here, this is the chance

2931
01:52:51,199 --> 01:52:55,760
for the for the community to comment,

2932
01:52:55,760 --> 01:52:59,520
but we're looking for a presentation.

2933
01:52:59,520 --> 01:53:00,800
>> I like Commissioner Woodhouse's

2934
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:02,239
comments. I think his comments have been

2935
01:53:02,239 --> 01:53:05,520
that he and I don't want Dave can speak

2936
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:07,920
for himself, but he honestly feels that

2937
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:09,520
the applicant would want to hear those

2938
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:12,719
concerns themselves and have a chance to

2939
01:53:12,719 --> 01:53:14,960
work through those. I that'd be I think

2940
01:53:14,960 --> 01:53:17,920
that's key for them too.

2941
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:19,760
>> That is another really good thing for

2942
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:22,159
having public comment is then you can

2943
01:53:22,159 --> 01:53:25,440
then you have a chance as staff to talk

2944
01:53:25,440 --> 01:53:26,880
about because people are going to talk

2945
01:53:26,880 --> 01:53:28,480
about the other things whether it's the

2946
01:53:28,480 --> 01:53:30,400
tower or not, right? They're going to

2947
01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:32,639
want to know about the phototric plan

2948
01:53:32,639 --> 01:53:34,800
and limit limiting light spillover.

2949
01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:36,560
They're going to want to know about

2950
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:39,760
roads and traffic too. those and so

2951
01:53:39,760 --> 01:53:43,199
that's a great public uh public

2952
01:53:43,199 --> 01:53:46,639
opportunity to speak to people who are

2953
01:53:46,639 --> 01:53:47,679
concerned about it.

2954
01:53:47,679 --> 01:53:50,080
>> Yeah, I'll I'll echo and again what was

2955
01:53:50,080 --> 01:53:52,719
said vicariously about you I having them

2956
01:53:52,719 --> 01:53:54,880
in the same forum.

2957
01:53:54,880 --> 01:53:56,239
this could be sorted out and it doesn't

2958
01:53:56,239 --> 01:53:58,159
have to be us as the decider right there

2959
01:53:58,159 --> 01:53:59,760
and quite honestly we may not be able to

2960
01:53:59,760 --> 01:54:00,239
be

2961
01:54:00,239 --> 01:54:01,760
>> and I think it'd be really good for us

2962
01:54:01,760 --> 01:54:03,920
for city you know

2963
01:54:03,920 --> 01:54:05,040
>> I mean

2964
01:54:05,040 --> 01:54:08,320
>> yeah with I just this just kind of felt

2965
01:54:08,320 --> 01:54:09,199
icky to me

2966
01:54:09,199 --> 01:54:10,639
>> that we're trying to put something ahead

2967
01:54:10,639 --> 01:54:12,239
of the putting the cart in front of the

2968
01:54:12,239 --> 01:54:15,920
horse here that's how I felt so

2969
01:54:15,920 --> 01:54:19,760
we're cutting out you know our

2970
01:54:19,760 --> 01:54:23,270
constituents

2971
01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:25,360
» I don't know if we have constitu

2972
01:54:25,360 --> 01:54:26,480
I don't know that's the right word

2973
01:54:26,480 --> 01:54:30,159
because I'm not voted in but

2974
01:54:30,159 --> 01:54:31,040
>> our neighbors

2975
01:54:31,040 --> 01:54:35,199
>> but our neighbors our community members.

2976
01:54:35,199 --> 01:54:36,480
>> Do we need anything more on this topic

2977
01:54:36,480 --> 01:54:37,440
or are we good?

2978
01:54:37,440 --> 01:54:38,960
>> Yeah. So if you can make a motion

2979
01:54:38,960 --> 01:54:39,840
>> we need to make another motion.

2980
01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:41,360
>> Do we need to make a motion or just

2981
01:54:41,360 --> 01:54:42,000
late?

2982
01:54:42,000 --> 01:54:42,960
>> We just shut down

2983
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:44,080
>> my opinion.

2984
01:54:44,080 --> 01:54:45,760
>> I think they made a motion to approve

2985
01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:47,119
that was not

2986
01:54:47,119 --> 01:54:48,960
>> denied. So instead, you'd make a motion

2987
01:54:48,960 --> 01:54:52,159
to deny the title F 15

2988
01:54:52,159 --> 01:54:54,480
>> changes that are proposed at this time.

2989
01:54:54,480 --> 01:54:56,560
You're going to deny the recommend that

2990
01:54:56,560 --> 01:54:58,560
they be denied and then that we come

2991
01:54:58,560 --> 01:55:00,080
back with these other in this other

2992
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:01,360
manner that we've discussed.

2993
01:55:01,360 --> 01:55:01,840
>> Oh,

2994
01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:02,639
>> does that make sense?

2995
01:55:02,639 --> 01:55:04,560
>> It didn't just automatically do it.

2996
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:07,520
>> Correct.

2997
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:08,639
>> Do you want me to go for that?

2998
01:55:08,639 --> 01:55:13,040
>> Yes. Thank you. Um, I'll make a I I move

2999
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:15,040
that we deny

3000
01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:16,000
>> recommend

3001
01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:18,480
>> uh recommend denial of the proposed

3002
01:55:18,480 --> 01:55:23,199
Title 15 amendments. Um,

3003
01:55:23,199 --> 01:55:26,550
with

3004
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:29,119
adding that we'd like to have the

3005
01:55:29,119 --> 01:55:30,719
concerns brought up tonight addressed by

3006
01:55:30,719 --> 01:55:33,280
staff.

3007
01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:35,679
And so this would be if you're voting

3008
01:55:35,679 --> 01:55:37,440
yes for this one, you'd be voting for

3009
01:55:37,440 --> 01:55:39,840
denial. If you're voting no for this

3010
01:55:39,840 --> 01:55:42,000
one, you'd be

3011
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:45,040
voting for approval, basically. So

3012
01:55:45,040 --> 01:55:46,800
again, roll call vote.

3013
01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:52,149
>> Yay.

3014
01:55:52,159 --> 01:55:54,800
» I'm not sure what to say.

3015
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:57,520
>> Um, yay.

3016
01:55:57,520 --> 01:55:59,199
>> Yeah. I mean, given that discussion that

3017
01:55:59,199 --> 01:56:00,560
we just had, yes, I Yeah.

3018
01:56:00,560 --> 01:56:03,440
>> Yes.

3019
01:56:03,440 --> 01:56:06,480
>> I have Mr. Chairman and three yeses. So

3020
01:56:06,480 --> 01:56:08,800
>> on the heels of that, can I just quickly

3021
01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:11,840
make sure I got the right things down,

3022
01:56:11,840 --> 01:56:12,159
>> please,

3023
01:56:12,159 --> 01:56:14,560
>> to communicate with the city council. So

3024
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:16,880
I heard that uh a preference would be to

3025
01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:19,280
have some type of proposal to address

3026
01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:20,400
what we're talking about here run

3027
01:56:20,400 --> 01:56:22,000
concurrently with the site plan approval

3028
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:22,960
somehow.

3029
01:56:22,960 --> 01:56:24,239
>> Yes.

3030
01:56:24,239 --> 01:56:27,520
>> And uh also to um potentially

3031
01:56:27,520 --> 01:56:29,440
>> for for the reason of the public

3032
01:56:29,440 --> 01:56:31,040
hearings that would be those other

3033
01:56:31,040 --> 01:56:32,320
things would be a public hearings at

3034
01:56:32,320 --> 01:56:33,280
that time.

3035
01:56:33,280 --> 01:56:35,440
>> Correct.

3036
01:56:35,440 --> 01:56:38,719
Uh, it certainly could be set up that

3037
01:56:38,719 --> 01:56:38,880
way.

3038
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:40,800
>> That's the purpose for that. If it could

3039
01:56:40,800 --> 01:56:42,560
be, then we need to rephrase it.

3040
01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:45,119
>> Yeah. No, and I I didn't mean to

3041
01:56:45,119 --> 01:56:46,639
wishy-washy. That's exactly what I

3042
01:56:46,639 --> 01:56:46,960
understood.

3043
01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:47,840
>> Yeah, that's our intent.

3044
01:56:47,840 --> 01:56:48,400
>> Yep.

3045
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:49,599
>> Totally.

3046
01:56:49,599 --> 01:56:53,599
>> And then also uh to explore

3047
01:56:53,599 --> 01:56:55,840
the prospect of this being a conditional

3048
01:56:55,840 --> 01:56:58,960
use versus a use subject to conditions,

3049
01:56:58,960 --> 01:57:00,800
which would be another avenue to do what

3050
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:03,679
you mentioned, Mr. chairman to come up

3051
01:57:03,679 --> 01:57:05,760
with a process to let residents provide

3052
01:57:05,760 --> 01:57:08,239
input somehow. So, that's kind of that's

3053
01:57:08,239 --> 01:57:10,800
the one very common thread that I've

3054
01:57:10,800 --> 01:57:13,440
heard to the different ideas that have

3055
01:57:13,440 --> 01:57:15,520
been thrown out and that type of thing.

3056
01:57:15,520 --> 01:57:17,360
>> Sure. All the council members will have

3057
01:57:17,360 --> 01:57:19,920
watched this, appreciate the banter that

3058
01:57:19,920 --> 01:57:21,840
went back and forth, and they'll know

3059
01:57:21,840 --> 01:57:22,880
exactly what you're talking about when

3060
01:57:22,880 --> 01:57:23,920
you go through this.

3061
01:57:23,920 --> 01:57:25,440
>> And I'm sure they'll study it.

3062
01:57:25,440 --> 01:57:26,960
>> They'll have something to say about it

3063
01:57:26,960 --> 01:57:28,880
for sure.

3064
01:57:28,880 --> 01:57:31,440
>> I'm going to watch them. [laughter]

3065
01:57:31,440 --> 01:57:33,679
>> I still won't.

3066
01:57:33,679 --> 01:57:38,560
I also heard that considering a setback

3067
01:57:38,560 --> 01:57:40,239
in connection with the proposal that

3068
01:57:40,239 --> 01:57:41,840
failed to receive a positive

3069
01:57:41,840 --> 01:57:45,199
recommendation tonight is maybe an

3070
01:57:45,199 --> 01:57:46,880
enhancement.

3071
01:57:46,880 --> 01:57:49,040
>> The the idea you brought up the idea of

3072
01:57:49,040 --> 01:57:51,760
a setback during the conversation uh due

3073
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:53,360
to the concern I had of just placement

3074
01:57:53,360 --> 01:57:55,119
of how that might

3075
01:57:55,119 --> 01:57:57,280
>> impact existing residents.

3076
01:57:57,280 --> 01:57:57,679
>> Yeah.

3077
01:57:57,679 --> 01:57:59,679
>> So I think somehow if we could work that

3078
01:57:59,679 --> 01:58:01,599
out that'd be great. That's a good way

3079
01:58:01,599 --> 01:58:01,840
to start.

3080
01:58:01,840 --> 01:58:03,440
>> I make one comment. It's It's kind of

3081
01:58:03,440 --> 01:58:06,080
hard to know what we'd even want just

3082
01:58:06,080 --> 01:58:07,360
given that we're a little blind right

3083
01:58:07,360 --> 01:58:09,840
now.

3084
01:58:09,840 --> 01:58:11,520
>> I don't know where this is at.

3085
01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:12,800
>> Seems to know where this is at. I have

3086
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:13,440
no clue.

3087
01:58:13,440 --> 01:58:14,880
>> That's a very good point. It's very

3088
01:58:14,880 --> 01:58:16,800
valid. V valid. And it's a concern I've

3089
01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:17,440
got, too.

3090
01:58:17,440 --> 01:58:19,679
>> Yeah. [clears throat]

3091
01:58:19,679 --> 01:58:22,560
>> Okay. Can we close this item,

3092
01:58:22,560 --> 01:58:23,119
>> please?

3093
01:58:23,119 --> 01:58:24,960
>> Okay. It is closed.

3094
01:58:24,960 --> 01:58:27,520
>> We'll now move on. I guess that is No,

3095
01:58:27,520 --> 01:58:30,480
we have one more. We have a title an a

3096
01:58:30,480 --> 01:58:34,239
concept review for the seventh north

3097
01:58:34,239 --> 01:58:36,239
building. This is 7th north in Maine,

3098
01:58:36,239 --> 01:58:37,840
correct?

3099
01:58:37,840 --> 01:58:39,520
>> Yes,

3100
01:58:39,520 --> 01:58:41,599
>> Mr. Hall.

3101
01:58:41,599 --> 01:58:43,599
>> Um,

3102
01:58:43,599 --> 01:58:46,159
>> you before that topic, don't you?

3103
01:58:46,159 --> 01:58:50,000
>> You have been came up before that topic.

3104
01:58:50,000 --> 01:58:53,360
>> I bet [laughter] you are.

3105
01:58:53,360 --> 01:58:57,920
Um, so I have spoke with Chad a few

3106
01:58:57,920 --> 01:59:00,960
times since uh a previous proposal was

3107
01:59:00,960 --> 01:59:03,599
made for the subject property. I have

3108
01:59:03,599 --> 01:59:05,520
not given you what I feel like is any

3109
01:59:05,520 --> 01:59:09,199
helpful input or advice and that is

3110
01:59:09,199 --> 01:59:13,599
reflective of how you I feel like I

3111
01:59:13,599 --> 01:59:16,719
I'm at in terms of what to suggest for

3112
01:59:16,719 --> 01:59:18,639
the subject property including you know

3113
01:59:18,639 --> 01:59:21,440
how to tweak um what was presented

3114
01:59:21,440 --> 01:59:24,560
before. I say tweak, I could describe it

3115
01:59:24,560 --> 01:59:27,360
better. How to modify, you know, maybe

3116
01:59:27,360 --> 01:59:30,000
what was presented before

3117
01:59:30,000 --> 01:59:33,040
um in order to um align with what the

3118
01:59:33,040 --> 01:59:34,560
planning commission might be comfortable

3119
01:59:34,560 --> 01:59:38,320
considering down the road. Um the

3120
01:59:38,320 --> 01:59:40,400
planning commission, I think, was very

3121
01:59:40,400 --> 01:59:43,119
clear about a couple of things relative

3122
01:59:43,119 --> 01:59:45,760
to the last proposal. Uh even though

3123
01:59:45,760 --> 01:59:47,199
also I certainly want to acknowledge

3124
01:59:47,199 --> 01:59:48,480
that I feel like there were very

3125
01:59:48,480 --> 01:59:50,080
distinct viewpoints expressed the last

3126
01:59:50,080 --> 01:59:51,599
time this was presented to the

3127
01:59:51,599 --> 01:59:55,280
commission which is partly again why I'm

3128
01:59:55,280 --> 01:59:58,239
not sure what to suggest that the

3129
01:59:58,239 --> 02:00:00,639
property owner really do to make

3130
02:00:00,639 --> 02:00:04,239
progress with this particular concept.

3131
02:00:04,239 --> 02:00:05,679
One of the things however I thought that

3132
02:00:05,679 --> 02:00:07,920
did come through fairly clearly was the

3133
02:00:07,920 --> 02:00:09,760
idea of trying to make the building in

3134
02:00:09,760 --> 02:00:12,639
terms of orientation where it sits on

3135
02:00:12,639 --> 02:00:15,360
the site line up better with even

3136
02:00:15,360 --> 02:00:17,199
contemporary structures that have been

3137
02:00:17,199 --> 02:00:20,639
built in the last decade or so. uh one

3138
02:00:20,639 --> 02:00:22,400
for example just to the south an office

3139
02:00:22,400 --> 02:00:25,040
building where they do have to make to

3140
02:00:25,040 --> 02:00:26,480
make this building align better with

3141
02:00:26,480 --> 02:00:30,000
those where for example you know there's

3142
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:32,239
a setback for main street that's lawn

3143
02:00:32,239 --> 02:00:35,199
space and there's that kind of

3144
02:00:35,199 --> 02:00:38,560
characteristic that that exists and I'll

3145
02:00:38,560 --> 02:00:39,840
let you speak to the changes that you

3146
02:00:39,840 --> 02:00:41,840
made including I think that that's at

3147
02:00:41,840 --> 02:00:43,040
least part of what we're talking about

3148
02:00:43,040 --> 02:00:49,840
here um so I I describe it that way as

3149
02:00:49,840 --> 02:00:55,119
kind of an introduction because we're really really interested as staff

3150
02:00:55,119 --> 02:00:56,719
and I believe the applicant as well and

3151
02:00:56,719 --> 02:00:57,920
I'm definitely gonna let him speak for

3152
02:00:57,920 --> 02:01:00,880
himself to get your thoughts about

3153
02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:03,840
whether this idea has any merit at all.

3154
02:01:03,840 --> 02:01:05,840
This is his second bite at the apple

3155
02:01:05,840 --> 02:01:07,360
where we're coming to you as the

3156
02:01:07,360 --> 02:01:10,080
commission. Um we had this queued up to

3157
02:01:10,080 --> 02:01:12,000
discuss with the development review

3158
02:01:12,000 --> 02:01:14,880
committee this morning and frankly at my

3159
02:01:14,880 --> 02:01:16,560
insistence probably as much as anything

3160
02:01:16,560 --> 02:01:18,560
we didn't even talk about it. So I

3161
02:01:18,560 --> 02:01:20,000
really feel like whether this moves

3162
02:01:20,000 --> 02:01:23,199
forward, it's not necessarily technical

3163
02:01:23,199 --> 02:01:24,719
and

3164
02:01:24,719 --> 02:01:26,719
you know design types of issues as much

3165
02:01:26,719 --> 02:01:29,679
as it is community character

3166
02:01:29,679 --> 02:01:32,480
um policy types of things then I think

3167
02:01:32,480 --> 02:01:35,280
we look to you for direction and

3168
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:39,360
guidance on that. Um and maybe Chad if

3169
02:01:39,360 --> 02:01:42,159
you want to you want to get warmed up

3170
02:01:42,159 --> 02:01:44,880
here to take over. I as I understand it,

3171
02:01:44,880 --> 02:01:47,360
we're talking still about uh mixed use

3172
02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:49,760
building, non-residential uses on the

3173
02:01:49,760 --> 02:01:53,040
main floor, residential uses on the

3174
02:01:53,040 --> 02:01:55,119
upper floors.

3175
02:01:55,119 --> 02:01:57,599
Um, and I'll let you clarify that. Um, a

3176
02:01:57,599 --> 02:02:00,400
total of four dwelling units proposed

3177
02:02:00,400 --> 02:02:04,960
with the subject property. Um, and and

3178
02:02:04,960 --> 02:02:07,040
I'll let and not only that, but please

3179
02:02:07,040 --> 02:02:10,639
tell me where else I'm wrong.

3180
02:02:10,639 --> 02:02:12,400
>> Eight dwelling units. Okay, that thank

3181
02:02:12,400 --> 02:02:16,790
you. that helps. Um,

3182
02:02:16,800 --> 02:02:20,719
the things that would have to change in

3183
02:02:20,719 --> 02:02:22,239
order for this to be allowed. So, this

3184
02:02:22,239 --> 02:02:24,239
is getting into, you know, again, I

3185
02:02:24,239 --> 02:02:26,560
would say policy or like zoning text

3186
02:02:26,560 --> 02:02:28,880
changes as proposed. You particularly

3187
02:02:28,880 --> 02:02:30,080
with the on street parking, you don't

3188
02:02:30,080 --> 02:02:34,000
quite meet the parking count. Um,

3189
02:02:34,000 --> 02:02:39,440
and uh, today we require garages for um,

3190
02:02:39,440 --> 02:02:41,360
residential uses. I think the proposal

3191
02:02:41,360 --> 02:02:43,679
here involves a carport.

3192
02:02:43,679 --> 02:02:45,280
Um,

3193
02:02:45,280 --> 02:02:46,960
and there might be some other things,

3194
02:02:46,960 --> 02:02:48,719
but I think those are kind of the more

3195
02:02:48,719 --> 02:02:50,800
significant things that would come into

3196
02:02:50,800 --> 02:02:53,679
play uh in terms of being able to allow

3197
02:02:53,679 --> 02:02:57,760
this this use here. Uh, Brandon, I'm

3198
02:02:57,760 --> 02:03:00,000
going to look to you. Density, is that

3199
02:03:00,000 --> 02:03:02,960
an issue by way of eight units on a

3200
02:03:02,960 --> 02:03:07,030
property of this size?

3201
02:03:07,040 --> 02:03:08,560
And that might be something to look at,

3202
02:03:08,560 --> 02:03:14,310
too. I

3203
02:03:14,320 --> 02:03:16,239
It's the residential office zone which

3204
02:03:16,239 --> 02:03:19,920
allows for buildings with combined

3205
02:03:19,920 --> 02:03:24,239
>> uses. Um I don't know that I can revisit

3206
02:03:24,239 --> 02:03:25,440
the code, but I don't know that it's

3207
02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:27,760
necessarily a density thing. More of a

3208
02:03:27,760 --> 02:03:30,000
if you have this many units, how many

3209
02:03:30,000 --> 02:03:31,520
parking spaces are available?

3210
02:03:31,520 --> 02:03:33,360
>> So density might not be an issue. Yeah.

3211
02:03:33,360 --> 02:03:35,840
Then okay, got it. Anyway, that's more

3212
02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:38,239
than I intended to say. I really for me

3213
02:03:38,239 --> 02:03:40,400
this is your time with them and love for

3214
02:03:40,400 --> 02:03:42,159
you guys just to be as completely candid

3215
02:03:42,159 --> 02:03:44,800
and open and direct. I don't necessarily

3216
02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:46,560
think you want to go through this again

3217
02:03:46,560 --> 02:03:48,719
you know at this level. So we're hoping

3218
02:03:48,719 --> 02:03:50,880
to just get them to the point where they

3219
02:03:50,880 --> 02:03:53,679
know what you're comfortable with and

3220
02:03:53,679 --> 02:03:57,510
we're the same way as staff.

3221
02:03:57,520 --> 02:04:06,870
You have any questions for me before I

3222
02:04:06,880 --> 02:04:08,800
um yeah, so Dave kind of explained

3223
02:04:08,800 --> 02:04:10,480
everything pretty well. Um obviously we

3224
02:04:10,480 --> 02:04:13,920
brought this here maybe six months ago.

3225
02:04:13,920 --> 02:04:16,719
Um originally we had the building more

3226
02:04:16,719 --> 02:04:18,639
pulled towards the street kind of more

3227
02:04:18,639 --> 02:04:22,159
of a you know modern look. We've kind of

3228
02:04:22,159 --> 02:04:23,840
on the updated submitt, we've just taken

3229
02:04:23,840 --> 02:04:25,840
the elevations off completely. I think

3230
02:04:25,840 --> 02:04:27,040
last time we were here, we kind of had

3231
02:04:27,040 --> 02:04:29,440
mixed reviews on aesthetics and things

3232
02:04:29,440 --> 02:04:32,719
like that, which um right now all we're

3233
02:04:32,719 --> 02:04:34,800
looking for is more concept level

3234
02:04:34,800 --> 02:04:36,239
approval. Like we can work with

3235
02:04:36,239 --> 02:04:38,719
aesthetics, we can look work with the

3236
02:04:38,719 --> 02:04:41,360
looks of the building. Um what we're

3237
02:04:41,360 --> 02:04:42,400
really trying to do is just get

3238
02:04:42,400 --> 02:04:44,159
direction on if something like this

3239
02:04:44,159 --> 02:04:46,560
would be feasible um from the city

3240
02:04:46,560 --> 02:04:48,480
standpoint as far as putting a mixeduse

3241
02:04:48,480 --> 02:04:51,040
building like this in this location.

3242
02:04:51,040 --> 02:04:53,520
Um Dave kind of talked about the main

3243
02:04:53,520 --> 02:04:55,599
constraints being

3244
02:04:55,599 --> 02:04:59,040
um parking um with our which I think we

3245
02:04:59,040 --> 02:05:01,520
talked about last time. Our idea was

3246
02:05:01,520 --> 02:05:02,960
with the mixed use, you know, your

3247
02:05:02,960 --> 02:05:05,280
commercial uses during the day, limiting

3248
02:05:05,280 --> 02:05:08,239
those uh tenants to professional

3249
02:05:08,239 --> 02:05:10,239
services that are, you know, 8 to 5 kind

3250
02:05:10,239 --> 02:05:11,840
of thing. And then the [clears throat]

3251
02:05:11,840 --> 02:05:14,159
residential use at night, which offsets

3252
02:05:14,159 --> 02:05:17,521
the hours so you can kind of um

3253
02:05:17,521 --> 02:05:18,960
[clears throat] use the parking both

3254
02:05:18,960 --> 02:05:21,280
ways. Um, and then we've added the

3255
02:05:21,280 --> 02:05:22,560
carport just to kind of help

3256
02:05:22,560 --> 02:05:24,159
accommodate, you know, the the

3257
02:05:24,159 --> 02:05:25,679
requirement of garages and things like

3258
02:05:25,679 --> 02:05:28,480
that, but doesn't really fit with with

3259
02:05:28,480 --> 02:05:29,920
this area. So, we're just kind of

3260
02:05:29,920 --> 02:05:32,159
looking for feedback of whether or not

3261
02:05:32,159 --> 02:05:34,960
this is feasible to move forward um or

3262
02:05:34,960 --> 02:05:37,280
if it's something that, you know, we

3263
02:05:37,280 --> 02:05:38,880
should probably just kind of go a

3264
02:05:38,880 --> 02:05:40,480
different direction on. So, we'd love to

3265
02:05:40,480 --> 02:05:43,920
hear your feedback on that.

3266
02:05:43,920 --> 02:05:45,920
One question and this may be for you or

3267
02:05:45,920 --> 02:05:47,840
it may be for staff, I don't know, but

3268
02:05:47,840 --> 02:05:50,480
the crossover between

3269
02:05:50,480 --> 02:05:55,199
the um retail space and the the staff or

3270
02:05:55,199 --> 02:05:56,480
their customers would be coming to visit

3271
02:05:56,480 --> 02:06:00,480
them if they're 9 to5 and

3272
02:06:00,480 --> 02:06:02,159
apartments where we have eight units

3273
02:06:02,159 --> 02:06:04,400
above where it's just assuming those

3274
02:06:04,400 --> 02:06:05,679
people would mostly be at work during

3275
02:06:05,679 --> 02:06:08,000
those times. That crossover, how does

3276
02:06:08,000 --> 02:06:10,560
that work in in reality? I mean, because

3277
02:06:10,560 --> 02:06:11,599
there's a lot of people work from home

3278
02:06:11,599 --> 02:06:14,800
nowadays. Um there might be people that

3279
02:06:14,800 --> 02:06:16,719
work a swing shift or an off shift that

3280
02:06:16,719 --> 02:06:22,800
come back to it. I'm just wondering it seems to make sense to me

3281
02:06:22,800 --> 02:06:25,119
>> um when you just look at on paper maybe

3282
02:06:25,119 --> 02:06:26,800
if you per se

3283
02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:28,800
>> but I know we have uh I'm in

3284
02:06:28,800 --> 02:06:30,400
construction we built a lot of projects

3285
02:06:30,400 --> 02:06:32,320
we have cross parking easements similar

3286
02:06:32,320 --> 02:06:34,560
situations where we're we're we have

3287
02:06:34,560 --> 02:06:36,000
we're building a multif family building

3288
02:06:36,000 --> 02:06:38,560
and we have a business next door they

3289
02:06:38,560 --> 02:06:40,000
have cross parking ements they can use

3290
02:06:40,000 --> 02:06:42,159
it and it does there does seem to be

3291
02:06:42,159 --> 02:06:43,920
some congestion

3292
02:06:43,920 --> 02:06:46,400
>> in the late afternoon a bit so I'm I'm

3293
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:48,239
just wondering how that works out if if

3294
02:06:48,239 --> 02:06:51,360
you or staff has any feedback on that.

3295
02:06:51,360 --> 02:06:53,679
>> I mean, it's it's hard to say 100%, you

3296
02:06:53,679 --> 02:06:55,119
know, this is what's going to happen,

3297
02:06:55,119 --> 02:06:56,480
right? Because we never know

3298
02:06:56,480 --> 02:06:58,960
>> how it will happen. Um, we've been

3299
02:06:58,960 --> 02:07:02,239
involved. So, I we do excavation site

3300
02:07:02,239 --> 02:07:04,159
work. We've done two other projects

3301
02:07:04,159 --> 02:07:07,360
similar to this in neighboring cities um

3302
02:07:07,360 --> 02:07:09,599
for clients we do a lot of work for.

3303
02:07:09,599 --> 02:07:11,199
They've done the same concept. Haven't

3304
02:07:11,199 --> 02:07:14,000
had any issues. They've had really good

3305
02:07:14,000 --> 02:07:16,159
success with it. But like I said, you

3306
02:07:16,159 --> 02:07:18,719
never you try to put parameters in

3307
02:07:18,719 --> 02:07:21,040
place, CCNRs in place to kind of limit

3308
02:07:21,040 --> 02:07:22,320
the interference like you're talking

3309
02:07:22,320 --> 02:07:23,360
about, but

3310
02:07:23,360 --> 02:07:26,400
>> to say 100%, you know, it won't happen.

3311
02:07:26,400 --> 02:07:28,960
We can't do that. We've tried to

3312
02:07:28,960 --> 02:07:31,280
include, you know, some buffer stalls

3313
02:07:31,280 --> 02:07:34,159
basically like I think by code for the

3314
02:07:34,159 --> 02:07:36,960
office space, I'm going off memory here,

3315
02:07:36,960 --> 02:07:37,599
>> 15.

3316
02:07:37,599 --> 02:07:40,719
>> I think it's 15. And then the the

3317
02:07:40,719 --> 02:07:42,320
apartments above are just single bedroom

3318
02:07:42,320 --> 02:07:44,000
apartments. So, you know, we're looking

3319
02:07:44,000 --> 02:07:47,040
at, you know, single tenants or young

3320
02:07:47,040 --> 02:07:48,719
married tenants. You know, two stalls

3321
02:07:48,719 --> 02:07:51,599
per apartment should be feasible. That

3322
02:07:51,599 --> 02:07:54,400
puts it at 16. I think we've proposed

3323
02:07:54,400 --> 02:07:56,320
21. I know there's some issues with the

3324
02:07:56,320 --> 02:07:57,599
on-site parking that we need to work

3325
02:07:57,599 --> 02:07:59,199
through, but we've tried to include some

3326
02:07:59,199 --> 02:08:00,880
buffer stalls to kind of help account

3327
02:08:00,880 --> 02:08:04,159
for that if there is some overlap. But,

3328
02:08:04,159 --> 02:08:05,679
like I said, that's kind of what we've

3329
02:08:05,679 --> 02:08:07,920
tried to do. I don't know if the staff

3330
02:08:07,920 --> 02:08:10,320
has any other comments on it, but

3331
02:08:10,320 --> 02:08:13,119
>> what are the on on-site parking issues?

3332
02:08:13,119 --> 02:08:15,280
Just

3333
02:08:15,280 --> 02:08:17,199
Dave didn't mention that in his

3334
02:08:17,199 --> 02:08:18,400
presentation. Do you know anybody know

3335
02:08:18,400 --> 02:08:21,199
what those are?

3336
02:08:21,199 --> 02:08:23,280
>> So, when we look at the parking, we

3337
02:08:23,280 --> 02:08:25,199
obviously do the calculation like the

3338
02:08:25,199 --> 02:08:28,400
applicant said. Um, we also look at the

3339
02:08:28,400 --> 02:08:31,199
locations. Um,

3340
02:08:31,199 --> 02:08:33,599
and so for instance, in this case, I

3341
02:08:33,599 --> 02:08:35,520
think it's a 5-ft buffer instead of the

3342
02:08:35,520 --> 02:08:39,040
standard 10. Uh, he's got three off

3343
02:08:39,040 --> 02:08:41,119
offsite on the street that is counted

3344
02:08:41,119 --> 02:08:44,480
towards uh their calculation. But the

3345
02:08:44,480 --> 02:08:48,400
summary, I think, is also missing guest parking if I remember

3346
02:08:48,400 --> 02:08:52,719
correctly. And so, um, we can definitely

3347
02:08:52,719 --> 02:08:55,840
do a deeper dive and and give a list of

3348
02:08:55,840 --> 02:08:58,400
those where it's a concept review. Um

3349
02:08:58,400 --> 02:09:00,719
sometimes that in deep dive isn't

3350
02:09:00,719 --> 02:09:02,239
>> we would normally not count street

3351
02:09:02,239 --> 02:09:05,040
parking. I mean we'd count the parking

3352
02:09:05,040 --> 02:09:07,840
stalls not we always count the street

3353
02:09:07,840 --> 02:09:09,360
parking is kind of an oh yes there is

3354
02:09:09,360 --> 02:09:10,719
street parking so there is more than

3355
02:09:10,719 --> 02:09:12,079
what's been shown but

3356
02:09:12,079 --> 02:09:13,360
>> it usually doesn't get counted

3357
02:09:13,360 --> 02:09:15,280
>> but in in this location I think

3358
02:09:15,280 --> 02:09:16,960
engineering stated a number of times

3359
02:09:16,960 --> 02:09:19,119
that we wouldn't necessarily want stalls

3360
02:09:19,119 --> 02:09:21,679
marked on the street. Yes in that

3361
02:09:21,679 --> 02:09:23,360
location.

3362
02:09:23,360 --> 02:09:25,360
Brandon, when you talked about guest

3363
02:09:25,360 --> 02:09:26,719
parking, you're referring to guest

3364
02:09:26,719 --> 02:09:29,440
parking for the residential tenants.

3365
02:09:29,440 --> 02:09:31,360
>> So, it's like Yeah. And and that's often

3366
02:09:31,360 --> 02:09:32,719
included there. So, that's yet another

3367
02:09:32,719 --> 02:09:35,360
dimension, right? That would be

3368
02:09:35,360 --> 02:09:36,880
>> where where are the examples? You said

3369
02:09:36,880 --> 02:09:38,719
you've had a similar concepts developed

3370
02:09:38,719 --> 02:09:40,239
some elsewhere in the valley. Is that

3371
02:09:40,239 --> 02:09:40,480
right?

3372
02:09:40,480 --> 02:09:42,320
>> So, we've been a part of two. So, one's

3373
02:09:42,320 --> 02:09:44,639
in Mapleton. Um Harvest Park, if you

3374
02:09:44,639 --> 02:09:46,320
know where that's at. Yeah. Um

3375
02:09:46,320 --> 02:09:48,000
>> the Harvest Park development right there

3376
02:09:48,000 --> 02:09:51,440
on the corner. Um PAC. Um it was called

3377
02:09:51,440 --> 02:09:53,920
Keep 51. It's right off right on the

3378
02:09:53,920 --> 02:09:57,119
bend in Pac I think 100

3379
02:09:57,119 --> 02:09:57,599
>> south.

3380
02:09:57,599 --> 02:09:58,800
>> It's got a barber shop on the first

3381
02:09:58,800 --> 02:09:58,960
floor

3382
02:09:58,960 --> 02:10:00,960
>> where the barber shop is. Yeah. Same

3383
02:10:00,960 --> 02:10:01,920
concept.

3384
02:10:01,920 --> 02:10:03,360
>> Um they've got commercial space on the

3385
02:10:03,360 --> 02:10:05,440
main and then I think he has 12 units

3386
02:10:05,440 --> 02:10:06,320
above

3387
02:10:06,320 --> 02:10:08,320
>> 12 units above.

3388
02:10:08,320 --> 02:10:09,199
>> Okay. Yeah.

3389
02:10:09,199 --> 02:10:10,719
>> And have they been able to keep the

3390
02:10:10,719 --> 02:10:13,679
commercial full? The commercial spaces

3391
02:10:13,679 --> 02:10:14,159
full?

3392
02:10:14,159 --> 02:10:16,000
>> Yeah. So it was a barber shop. Um it

3393
02:10:16,000 --> 02:10:18,560
actually just swapped out in the last

3394
02:10:18,560 --> 02:10:20,320
couple months to a coffee shop. Yeah.

3395
02:10:20,320 --> 02:10:22,159
They've been able to keep it full. I I

3396
02:10:22,159 --> 02:10:23,760
apologize if you already covered this.

3397
02:10:23,760 --> 02:10:26,159
How many retail spaces on the first like

3398
02:10:26,159 --> 02:10:27,199
how many business?

3399
02:10:27,199 --> 02:10:28,880
>> Right now it's laid out for four

3400
02:10:28,880 --> 02:10:31,760
business combined into bigger units, but

3401
02:10:31,760 --> 02:10:32,960
right now it has four.

3402
02:10:32,960 --> 02:10:40,709
>> Okay.

3403
02:10:40,719 --> 02:10:44,880
» I liked it last time. I still like it.

3404
02:10:44,880 --> 02:10:48,159
>> Actually like that pacing concept. So

3405
02:10:48,159 --> 02:10:49,599
there you helpful.

3406
02:10:49,599 --> 02:10:51,119
>> Yeah. to kind of visualize what that

3407
02:10:51,119 --> 02:10:53,040
looks like. I think it was maybe hard to

3408
02:10:53,040 --> 02:10:55,599
translate. I mean, I don't think I put

3409
02:10:55,599 --> 02:10:57,280
up a lot of opposition last time, but I

3410
02:10:57,280 --> 02:10:58,320
think it was kind of hard to translate

3411
02:10:58,320 --> 02:10:59,520
what that looks like. And I know every

3412
02:10:59,520 --> 02:11:00,719
community is different and everything

3413
02:11:00,719 --> 02:11:03,119
like that. So,

3414
02:11:03,119 --> 02:11:04,675
um,

3415
02:11:04,675 --> 02:11:05,440
[snorts]

3416
02:11:05,440 --> 02:11:07,119
though, as we talked through the parking

3417
02:11:07,119 --> 02:11:08,400
thing, I think the parking thing just

3418
02:11:08,400 --> 02:11:13,599
sounds kind of messy. I you know to to

3419
02:11:13,599 --> 02:11:16,560
chairman Mitchell's point like uh you

3420
02:11:16,560 --> 02:11:19,280
know just with people working from home

3421
02:11:19,280 --> 02:11:20,800
and everything like that

3422
02:11:20,800 --> 02:11:21,440
>> right

3423
02:11:21,440 --> 02:11:23,679
>> that can that could consume quite a bit

3424
02:11:23,679 --> 02:11:24,079
>> right

3425
02:11:24,079 --> 02:11:26,239
>> yeah I I work from home multiple days a

3426
02:11:26,239 --> 02:11:28,000
week and

3427
02:11:28,000 --> 02:11:29,520
I just know that's really common so

3428
02:11:29,520 --> 02:11:29,679
>> right

3429
02:11:29,679 --> 02:11:32,719
>> and but what with onebedroom units you

3430
02:11:32,719 --> 02:11:33,920
know

3431
02:11:33,920 --> 02:11:37,040
>> I like I like the onebedroom concept I

3432
02:11:37,040 --> 02:11:38,480
think it's I think there's a market for

3433
02:11:38,480 --> 02:11:42,880
it I think it's needed Um,

3434
02:11:42,880 --> 02:11:44,719
but

3435
02:11:44,719 --> 02:11:46,560
you've got issues with your with the

3436
02:11:46,560 --> 02:11:47,599
parking is going to be your biggest

3437
02:11:47,599 --> 02:11:48,880
issues,

3438
02:11:48,880 --> 02:11:51,910
>> right?

3439
02:11:51,920 --> 02:11:53,280
» And and hopefully limiting to

3440
02:11:53,280 --> 02:11:55,599
one-bedroom units. Hopefully, you know,

3441
02:11:55,599 --> 02:11:57,280
like I said, hopefully we get single

3442
02:11:57,280 --> 02:11:59,040
tenants that have one car and you got

3443
02:11:59,040 --> 02:12:01,119
eight cars there rather than 16, right?

3444
02:12:01,119 --> 02:12:03,840
And so, it's hard to say for sure, but

3445
02:12:03,840 --> 02:12:04,239
yeah,

3446
02:12:04,239 --> 02:12:06,079
>> parking obviously is is a big

3447
02:12:06,079 --> 02:12:06,639
constraint.

3448
02:12:06,639 --> 02:12:08,320
>> It's hard to say. I think like like in

3449
02:12:08,320 --> 02:12:11,280
the community that I'm in like uh a lot

3450
02:12:11,280 --> 02:12:13,760
of people, you know, 10 years ago

3451
02:12:13,760 --> 02:12:15,679
parking wasn't an issue. It's become an

3452
02:12:15,679 --> 02:12:18,159
issue because kids are moving out later,

3453
02:12:18,159 --> 02:12:19,280
right? And everything like that and

3454
02:12:19,280 --> 02:12:20,560
family dynamics are changing quite a

3455
02:12:20,560 --> 02:12:21,920
bit. And I just think

3456
02:12:21,920 --> 02:12:26,800
>> I think uh I think we run into that. But you know, appreciate that example

3457
02:12:26,800 --> 02:12:30,159
that you from PAC. Would it be and I

3458
02:12:30,159 --> 02:12:33,750
don't know if this is our

3459
02:12:33,760 --> 02:12:36,800
if we can submit in your bylaws can you

3460
02:12:36,800 --> 02:12:39,119
hold it to one tenant is that a

3461
02:12:39,119 --> 02:12:41,599
>> I mean there's there's ways that we

3462
02:12:41,599 --> 02:12:44,000
could you know put parameters in it as

3463
02:12:44,000 --> 02:12:46,159
far as the CCNRs right like to to be a

3464
02:12:46,159 --> 02:12:47,360
tenant here this is kind of what you

3465
02:12:47,360 --> 02:12:49,599
have the standards or not standards the

3466
02:12:49,599 --> 02:12:52,079
criteria that you have to meet right

3467
02:12:52,079 --> 02:12:54,800
>> I think it if you have if they're single

3468
02:12:54,800 --> 02:12:57,119
bedroom units it's either one or two

3469
02:12:57,119 --> 02:12:58,800
people generally Right. I

3470
02:12:58,800 --> 02:13:01,599
>> mean, really, so

3471
02:13:01,599 --> 02:13:05,360
>> if you're two people in each unit, they

3472
02:13:05,360 --> 02:13:06,880
each have their own vehicle, that's 16

3473
02:13:06,880 --> 02:13:10,000
of their stalls are gone.

3474
02:13:10,000 --> 02:13:12,400
>> Well, I think our code requires two

3475
02:13:12,400 --> 02:13:15,760
>> two stalls anyway.

3476
02:13:15,760 --> 02:13:17,440
>> Is it two or 2.5

3477
02:13:17,440 --> 02:13:19,760
>> or is it based on square footage?

3478
02:13:19,760 --> 02:13:22,560
>> It's two. One garage, one stall, and

3479
02:13:22,560 --> 02:13:22,800
then

3480
02:13:22,800 --> 02:13:25,599
>> which they have they have space one per

3481
02:13:25,599 --> 02:13:26,800
>> per unit.

3482
02:13:26,800 --> 02:13:29,920
>> Yes. two stalls. He doesn't carport. No

3483
02:13:29,920 --> 02:13:30,400
garage.

3484
02:13:30,400 --> 02:13:31,520
>> No garage.

3485
02:13:31,520 --> 02:13:35,360
>> They have two per I'm sorry.

3486
02:13:35,360 --> 02:13:36,400
>> You're a little bit You're a little bit

3487
02:13:36,400 --> 02:13:38,480
slow on the uptake there. I know.

3488
02:13:38,480 --> 02:13:39,360
Brandon answer.

3489
02:13:39,360 --> 02:13:40,800
>> You guys are running fast. They have two

3490
02:13:40,800 --> 02:13:42,960
per unit. But

3491
02:13:42,960 --> 02:13:45,679
>> so looking at the parking table, it's

3492
02:13:45,679 --> 02:13:48,079
one garage, one parking stall, so two

3493
02:13:48,079 --> 02:13:50,719
per unit, and then one guest space per

3494
02:13:50,719 --> 02:13:52,719
every three units,

3495
02:13:52,719 --> 02:13:54,239
>> right?

3496
02:13:54,239 --> 02:13:57,199
And they're for commercial units, right?

3497
02:13:57,199 --> 02:13:57,440
So,

3498
02:13:57,440 --> 02:13:59,119
>> which is one per 300 for

3499
02:13:59,119 --> 02:14:03,280
>> somehow that factors somehow into the

3500
02:14:03,280 --> 02:14:04,000
parking.

3501
02:14:04,000 --> 02:14:08,560
>> And does that doesn't have a like how

3502
02:14:08,560 --> 02:14:11,520
the applicant has those overlapping? Our

3503
02:14:11,520 --> 02:14:13,280
code doesn't consider that, does it? It

3504
02:14:13,280 --> 02:14:17,199
would say it would say 12 required in

3505
02:14:17,199 --> 02:14:20,320
this case plus 16.

3506
02:14:20,320 --> 02:14:23,840
So it' be a total of 28 plus guest

3507
02:14:23,840 --> 02:14:27,440
parking would put us like 31.

3508
02:14:27,440 --> 02:14:29,119
Do we make any consideration for that

3509
02:14:29,119 --> 02:14:31,599
being during operation hours of the

3510
02:14:31,599 --> 02:14:33,199
businesses?

3511
02:14:33,199 --> 02:14:34,880
>> The do you mind if I

3512
02:14:34,880 --> 02:14:38,159
>> Yeah, go ahead. the code as it ex is

3513
02:14:38,159 --> 02:14:40,880
explicitly written does not. Okay.

3514
02:14:40,880 --> 02:14:42,960
>> But we have things like the development

3515
02:14:42,960 --> 02:14:45,040
enhancement overlay for example

3516
02:14:45,040 --> 02:14:48,719
>> that's intended I think you know to give

3517
02:14:48,719 --> 02:14:50,960
ultimately you and the city council

3518
02:14:50,960 --> 02:14:52,480
>> an opportunity to look at that just more

3519
02:14:52,480 --> 02:14:55,119
pragmatically you know assuming that

3520
02:14:55,119 --> 02:14:56,320
residents are typically going to be

3521
02:14:56,320 --> 02:14:58,079
there when you know the businesses

3522
02:14:58,079 --> 02:14:59,360
aren't going to be operating and that

3523
02:14:59,360 --> 02:15:04,000
kind of a thing. Um, so that would be a

3524
02:15:04,000 --> 02:15:08,000
way to not have to follow that numerical

3525
02:15:08,000 --> 02:15:08,800
chart.

3526
02:15:08,800 --> 02:15:09,360
>> Yeah.

3527
02:15:09,360 --> 02:15:10,079
>> Explicitly.

3528
02:15:10,079 --> 02:15:12,239
>> While I think on this one parking is an

3529
02:15:12,239 --> 02:15:15,040
issue, I would not want to see an

3530
02:15:15,040 --> 02:15:19,520
asphalt plane of like, you know, 31 35

3531
02:15:19,520 --> 02:15:21,440
parking stalls for something this size

3532
02:15:21,440 --> 02:15:24,239
either. So, I'm glad that we have that

3533
02:15:24,239 --> 02:15:25,440
uh leeway.

3534
02:15:25,440 --> 02:15:27,119
>> Yeah.

3535
02:15:27,119 --> 02:15:29,360
an asphalt plane does doesn't sound like

3536
02:15:29,360 --> 02:15:30,000
it looks

3537
02:15:30,000 --> 02:15:30,960
>> No, it doesn't look great.

3538
02:15:30,960 --> 02:15:32,320
>> Great.

3539
02:15:32,320 --> 02:15:33,679
>> And I think what happens logically

3540
02:15:33,679 --> 02:15:35,599
parking I mean I know there's that that

3541
02:15:35,599 --> 02:15:37,520
place across the street if the

3542
02:15:37,520 --> 02:15:38,719
businesses are popular enough I could

3543
02:15:38,719 --> 02:15:40,000
see people parking over there. I don't

3544
02:15:40,000 --> 02:15:41,679
know like if that's would

3545
02:15:41,679 --> 02:15:43,840
>> I think it's full across the street. I

3546
02:15:43,840 --> 02:15:46,000
go to the dentist there and it's it can

3547
02:15:46,000 --> 02:15:47,360
be tricky to park over there.

3548
02:15:47,360 --> 02:15:48,960
>> Then it'll extend out onto the road and

3549
02:15:48,960 --> 02:15:52,159
everything like that. People I mean if you're if you'll get there you'll

3550
02:15:52,159 --> 02:15:54,079
walk a little bit, right? which is not

3551
02:15:54,079 --> 02:15:55,280
always the most convenient, but

3552
02:15:55,280 --> 02:15:57,119
>> and there's on street parking.

3553
02:15:57,119 --> 02:15:57,920
>> Yeah.

3554
02:15:57,920 --> 02:16:00,079
>> Which I've had issues with before

3555
02:16:00,079 --> 02:16:02,320
because of the

3556
02:16:02,320 --> 02:16:04,000
snow ordinance.

3557
02:16:04,000 --> 02:16:05,679
>> That doesn't snow anymore, though.

3558
02:16:05,679 --> 02:16:08,790
>> Oh, yeah. I forgot. [laughter]

3559
02:16:08,800 --> 02:16:12,639
» Snow is so years ago.

3560
02:16:12,639 --> 02:16:14,560
>> And I don't think it's too wildly off. I

3561
02:16:14,560 --> 02:16:15,520
mean, I was [clears throat] mentioning

3562
02:16:15,520 --> 02:16:17,760
this when we talked earlier, like I

3563
02:16:17,760 --> 02:16:19,920
guess 700, I guess around 800 north is

3564
02:16:19,920 --> 02:16:22,480
where we start seeing a lot of the the

3565
02:16:22,480 --> 02:16:23,679
commercial, but actually I looked back

3566
02:16:23,679 --> 02:16:24,800
at the map there. We've got Kitty

3567
02:16:24,800 --> 02:16:26,079
Corner, a gas station.

3568
02:16:26,079 --> 02:16:28,400
>> Well, straight across the street is

3569
02:16:28,400 --> 02:16:29,199
>> insurance.

3570
02:16:29,199 --> 02:16:31,280
>> Well, it's a whole It's that whole

3571
02:16:31,280 --> 02:16:32,399
>> Oh, you're talking north.

3572
02:16:32,399 --> 02:16:32,960
>> North.

3573
02:16:32,960 --> 02:16:36,080
>> Yeah. North Oh, you're talking south.

3574
02:16:36,080 --> 02:16:37,599
>> But I'm talking all corners on that.

3575
02:16:37,599 --> 02:16:38,800
There is something commercial. Even

3576
02:16:38,800 --> 02:16:41,040
directly across the street east, there's

3577
02:16:41,040 --> 02:16:42,479
>> there's a house that's been converted to

3578
02:16:42,479 --> 02:16:44,000
an insurance agency and then a gas

3579
02:16:44,000 --> 02:16:46,080
station category. So, I don't think it's

3580
02:16:46,080 --> 02:16:48,399
too far off of

3581
02:16:48,399 --> 02:16:53,280
>> the uses that we see adjacent to it.

3582
02:16:53,280 --> 02:16:54,960
>> Oh, and we don't have a public hearing

3583
02:16:54,960 --> 02:16:55,760
on this.

3584
02:16:55,760 --> 02:17:00,870
>> This is just

3585
02:17:00,880 --> 02:17:01,679
the applicant.

3586
02:17:01,679 --> 02:17:03,840
>> I just know that there's a that over in

3587
02:17:03,840 --> 02:17:05,519
the audience there's somebody who go is

3588
02:17:05,519 --> 02:17:08,160
in business across the street. If it was

3589
02:17:08,160 --> 02:17:10,719
only two stories, one story of

3590
02:17:10,719 --> 02:17:12,960
residential, is that just not the

3591
02:17:12,960 --> 02:17:14,800
economics doesn't work at that point?

3592
02:17:14,800 --> 02:17:17,599
>> Yeah. I mean, yeah, it just gets to be

3593
02:17:17,599 --> 02:17:19,679
pretty expensive per door, obviously.

3594
02:17:19,679 --> 02:17:20,000
>> Yeah.

3595
02:17:20,000 --> 02:17:22,080
>> So, we just need to look at So, I say

3596
02:17:22,080 --> 02:17:23,840
we're we're proposing this. This would

3597
02:17:23,840 --> 02:17:27,679
be ideal for us obviously. Um, but we

3598
02:17:27,679 --> 02:17:28,880
just want to see feedback and see if

3599
02:17:28,880 --> 02:17:30,960
it's feasible. And

3600
02:17:30,960 --> 02:17:32,639
>> for me, I think my comments would echo

3601
02:17:32,639 --> 02:17:34,960
whatever else to say. feels like a lot

3602
02:17:34,960 --> 02:17:39,760
of residents and and retail on that one.

3603
02:17:39,760 --> 02:17:43,040
I mean, it's a good size lot, but it's a small for what we're putting on

3604
02:17:43,040 --> 02:17:44,880
there is what it feels to me with the

3605
02:17:44,880 --> 02:17:48,399
parking. I would like to see

3606
02:17:48,399 --> 02:17:52,639
something that reduces that somehow or I just don't see how it's going to fit

3607
02:17:52,639 --> 02:17:54,960
the other way. It just feels it feels uh

3608
02:17:54,960 --> 02:17:56,000
big for that area.

3609
02:17:56,000 --> 02:17:58,399
>> So, maybe a couple units reduced some

3610
02:17:58,399 --> 02:18:00,240
>> I I don't know. I that's that's up to

3611
02:18:00,240 --> 02:18:02,080
that's I'm just giving my feedback on

3612
02:18:02,080 --> 02:18:04,000
>> proposing eight units right now.

3613
02:18:04,000 --> 02:18:04,399
>> Yeah.

3614
02:18:04,399 --> 02:18:08,160
>> So you could do like six units and three

3615
02:18:08,160 --> 02:18:08,559
business.

3616
02:18:08,559 --> 02:18:10,800
>> But the problem is then you're if you do

3617
02:18:10,800 --> 02:18:13,120
if you if you keep the same footprint

3618
02:18:13,120 --> 02:18:15,280
and we go up to let's he reduces it to

3619
02:18:15,280 --> 02:18:16,479
six there's probably going to be maybe a

3620
02:18:16,479 --> 02:18:18,559
two-bedroom unit or some way out in

3621
02:18:18,559 --> 02:18:20,160
there and get more revenue off of it.

3622
02:18:20,160 --> 02:18:21,200
Then you got more parking.

3623
02:18:21,200 --> 02:18:22,479
>> Well, I'm talking about smaller

3624
02:18:22,479 --> 02:18:24,319
footprint.

3625
02:18:24,319 --> 02:18:25,760
>> You like the onebedroom?

3626
02:18:25,760 --> 02:18:27,840
>> I do. I like that. I like the concept of

3627
02:18:27,840 --> 02:18:28,319
it.

3628
02:18:28,319 --> 02:18:29,920
>> Yeah. I do too because I feel like we

3629
02:18:29,920 --> 02:18:31,840
need more variety here

3630
02:18:31,840 --> 02:18:32,559
>> in a way,

3631
02:18:32,559 --> 02:18:34,160
>> right? [clears throat]

3632
02:18:34,160 --> 02:18:35,599
>> Are you getting any of the

3633
02:18:35,599 --> 02:18:36,880
>> Yeah. [laughter] Well, yeah.

3634
02:18:36,880 --> 02:18:38,160
>> Like the one bedroom.

3635
02:18:38,160 --> 02:18:39,359
>> Like the one [clears throat] bedroom.

3636
02:18:39,359 --> 02:18:41,120
Obviously, the biggest thing is parking.

3637
02:18:41,120 --> 02:18:42,719
I mean, that's been the biggest thing.

3638
02:18:42,719 --> 02:18:44,080
>> Parking stress no matter

3639
02:18:44,080 --> 02:18:45,840
>> but like you said, no matter no matter

3640
02:18:45,840 --> 02:18:47,840
what you do, I feel like there's always

3641
02:18:47,840 --> 02:18:49,120
kind of parking stress.

3642
02:18:49,120 --> 02:18:51,439
>> Before we had had the building was right

3643
02:18:51,439 --> 02:18:53,599
up, we had a setback issue.

3644
02:18:53,599 --> 02:18:56,000
>> Concern our feedback was there was a

3645
02:18:56,000 --> 02:18:57,599
concern with that. How close it was. I

3646
02:18:57,599 --> 02:19:00,240
think you moved it back to where

3647
02:19:00,240 --> 02:19:01,920
>> I think it says 20 ft.

3648
02:19:01,920 --> 02:19:02,880
>> Yeah. On the front.

3649
02:19:02,880 --> 02:19:03,920
>> 20 feet from the main.

3650
02:19:03,920 --> 02:19:06,479
>> How does that compare with uh

3651
02:19:06,479 --> 02:19:07,679
>> the Italian place?

3652
02:19:07,679 --> 02:19:08,960
>> Yeah, exactly.

3653
02:19:08,960 --> 02:19:10,800
>> The Italian place is a lot closer.

3654
02:19:10,800 --> 02:19:11,519
>> Closer.

3655
02:19:11,519 --> 02:19:12,479
>> Yeah.

3656
02:19:12,479 --> 02:19:13,439
>> You might be surprised.

3657
02:19:13,439 --> 02:19:15,120
>> I think it's honestly I think it's the

3658
02:19:15,120 --> 02:19:15,439
same.

3659
02:19:15,439 --> 02:19:16,639
>> I think it's the same.

3660
02:19:16,639 --> 02:19:17,040
>> I would.

3661
02:19:17,040 --> 02:19:18,319
>> You know the office building to the

3662
02:19:18,319 --> 02:19:19,200
south.

3663
02:19:19,200 --> 02:19:21,280
>> Do you from the side?

3664
02:19:21,280 --> 02:19:22,639
>> Yeah. The office setback from the

3665
02:19:22,639 --> 02:19:23,840
sidewalk or from the

3666
02:19:23,840 --> 02:19:24,719
>> That's from the sidewalk.

3667
02:19:24,719 --> 02:19:28,160
>> Sidewalk. Yeah. 20 ft from the sidewalk.

3668
02:19:28,160 --> 02:19:31,439
>> Um I think the building to the south is

3669
02:19:31,439 --> 02:19:32,160
25.

3670
02:19:32,160 --> 02:19:34,559
>> I was going to say it's either 20 or 25.

3671
02:19:34,559 --> 02:19:36,160
>> That's quite a bit back. How much how

3672
02:19:36,160 --> 02:19:39,840
far back is uh the Italian place?

3673
02:19:39,840 --> 02:19:41,599
>> I want to say the Italian place is 20,

3674
02:19:41,599 --> 02:19:42,800
but I could be wrong.

3675
02:19:42,800 --> 02:19:44,479
>> Okay.

3676
02:19:44,479 --> 02:19:46,080
So that's reasonable. That's a

3677
02:19:46,080 --> 02:19:47,679
reasonable setback.

3678
02:19:47,679 --> 02:19:48,960
>> Well, that's what I'm saying. I said he

3679
02:19:48,960 --> 02:19:51,040
moved it back and I just want to know

3680
02:19:51,040 --> 02:19:52,960
how it would, you know, plane with the

3681
02:19:52,960 --> 02:19:53,840
rest of that area.

3682
02:19:53,840 --> 02:19:57,830
>> Yeah.

3683
02:19:57,840 --> 02:20:00,160
going and going back to the the units. I

3684
02:20:00,160 --> 02:20:01,920
mean, they're they are they're single

3685
02:20:01,920 --> 02:20:03,439
bedroom. They're smaller units, right?

3686
02:20:03,439 --> 02:20:05,120
They're only thousand square feet. So,

3687
02:20:05,120 --> 02:20:07,760
it's not like they're big units that,

3688
02:20:07,760 --> 02:20:08,880
you know, you're going to have a lot of

3689
02:20:08,880 --> 02:20:11,040
people in. It's designed to kind of be

3690
02:20:11,040 --> 02:20:13,200
single professionals or newly married

3691
02:20:13,200 --> 02:20:16,240
couples for a reason, right? So, to try

3692
02:20:16,240 --> 02:20:23,270
to limit how many people are there.

3693
02:20:23,280 --> 02:20:25,120
» 15. So, a little

3694
02:20:25,120 --> 02:20:26,880
>> a little closer.

3695
02:20:26,880 --> 02:20:27,200
>> Yeah.

3696
02:20:27,200 --> 02:20:28,560
>> I'll tell you what, if I compare it

3697
02:20:28,560 --> 02:20:30,080
across the street to where the parking

3698
02:20:30,080 --> 02:20:31,520
lot is out front,

3699
02:20:31,520 --> 02:20:32,880
>> although that parking lot doesn't offend

3700
02:20:32,880 --> 02:20:34,240
me, but this one having the building on

3701
02:20:34,240 --> 02:20:36,000
Main Street, I think with the parking

3702
02:20:36,000 --> 02:20:38,880
lot behind, that conceptually seems a

3703
02:20:38,880 --> 02:20:40,080
little better than what we have across

3704
02:20:40,080 --> 02:20:41,200
the street north.

3705
02:20:41,200 --> 02:20:43,040
>> Yeah.

3706
02:20:43,040 --> 02:20:44,560
>> And it's not terrible north, but this

3707
02:20:44,560 --> 02:20:46,800
sounds better than that. So

3708
02:20:46,800 --> 02:20:50,000
>> the question is, do would we like the

3709
02:20:50,000 --> 02:20:52,720
concept enough to make the exceptions

3710
02:20:52,720 --> 02:20:54,479
and changes that we need to make? Dave,

3711
02:20:54,479 --> 02:20:56,640
remind us the the changes that we'd have

3712
02:20:56,640 --> 02:20:58,880
to make to permitted.

3713
02:20:58,880 --> 02:21:00,399
>> Honestly, I'm not sure of what all of

3714
02:21:00,399 --> 02:21:04,560
them are. Parking would be one. How cars

3715
02:21:04,560 --> 02:21:06,319
are parked, you know, garages would be

3716
02:21:06,319 --> 02:21:08,960
another one. Um, I think landscape

3717
02:21:08,960 --> 02:21:10,720
buffer to the west would be one. Just

3718
02:21:10,720 --> 02:21:12,800
the width of that. There be a little bit

3719
02:21:12,800 --> 02:21:15,359
of a landscaping thing there.

3720
02:21:15,359 --> 02:21:18,000
Um,

3721
02:21:18,000 --> 02:21:20,880
yeah, it's that type of thing.

3722
02:21:20,880 --> 02:21:23,120
>> And we've been pretty stingy about

3723
02:21:23,120 --> 02:21:25,439
parking in the past.

3724
02:21:25,439 --> 02:21:26,479
>> So, is it

3725
02:21:26,479 --> 02:21:28,319
>> depends on who you ask?

3726
02:21:28,319 --> 02:21:28,800
>> Yeah.

3727
02:21:28,800 --> 02:21:30,560
that's

3728
02:21:30,560 --> 02:21:32,640
>> Have you tried to park in front of the

3729
02:21:32,640 --> 02:21:35,120
Italian place at 12:30 in the afternoon

3730
02:21:35,120 --> 02:21:35,840
lately

3731
02:21:35,840 --> 02:21:36,800
>> on Main Street?

3732
02:21:36,800 --> 02:21:38,160
>> That's [laughter]

3733
02:21:38,160 --> 02:21:38,800
the parking lot.

3734
02:21:38,800 --> 02:21:40,479
>> We do get complaints because people

3735
02:21:40,479 --> 02:21:40,720
think

3736
02:21:40,720 --> 02:21:42,319
>> Can you zoom in a little bit more on

3737
02:21:42,319 --> 02:21:47,520
that? But um wonder and scroll down to

3738
02:21:47,520 --> 02:21:50,319
the north other way.

3739
02:21:50,319 --> 02:21:52,080
>> Yeah, I've come in that time day to go

3740
02:21:52,080 --> 02:21:53,359
to the dentist before and go

3741
02:21:53,359 --> 02:21:55,520
>> so the old subway building right there

3742
02:21:55,520 --> 02:21:59,439
next to the gas station that's right

3743
02:21:59,439 --> 02:22:01,200
to the sidewalks just out.

3744
02:22:01,200 --> 02:22:02,640
>> Yep, you're right.

3745
02:22:02,640 --> 02:22:03,760
>> Yeah, that's like

3746
02:22:03,760 --> 02:22:05,120
>> there are a handful of buildings along

3747
02:22:05,120 --> 02:22:06,160
there that are the same way.

3748
02:22:06,160 --> 02:22:07,439
>> And I don't want to repeat that.

3749
02:22:07,439 --> 02:22:09,920
>> No, it's a mess. It's okay. That's one

3750
02:22:09,920 --> 02:22:11,040
just like

3751
02:22:11,040 --> 02:22:12,880
>> but but we're quite a bit better at the

3752
02:22:12,880 --> 02:22:15,439
Italian place even at 15. Yeah, it's

3753
02:22:15,439 --> 02:22:17,439
much less offensive. But

3754
02:22:17,439 --> 02:22:18,000
>> and I

3755
02:22:18,000 --> 02:22:20,800
>> this would be even better than that.

3756
02:22:20,800 --> 02:22:21,439
>> Assuming

3757
02:22:21,439 --> 02:22:22,960
>> I don't know that it's better I that's

3758
02:22:22,960 --> 02:22:24,240
what I'm saying. I don't know that it's

3759
02:22:24,240 --> 02:22:26,640
better

3760
02:22:26,640 --> 02:22:28,720
to have the bigger setback along Main

3761
02:22:28,720 --> 02:22:29,200
Street.

3762
02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:30,720
>> So you'd be Are you Would you be

3763
02:22:30,720 --> 02:22:31,680
comfortable with uh

3764
02:22:31,680 --> 02:22:33,200
>> I'd probably be comfortable with 10 feet

3765
02:22:33,200 --> 02:22:34,880
from the sidewalk.

3766
02:22:34,880 --> 02:22:36,240
>> Just still be much better than the old

3767
02:22:36,240 --> 02:22:38,479
subway. I would not I would not be my

3768
02:22:38,479 --> 02:22:39,600
vote would be no on that.

3769
02:22:39,600 --> 02:22:40,240
>> Not on that.

3770
02:22:40,240 --> 02:22:43,760
>> But it you know even the 15 like what's

3771
02:22:43,760 --> 02:22:45,359
at that other building because that's a

3772
02:22:45,359 --> 02:22:48,240
fairly recent building

3773
02:22:48,240 --> 02:22:51,040
>> you know the subway is

3774
02:22:51,040 --> 02:22:52,000
>> what would our standard

3775
02:22:52,000 --> 02:22:53,680
>> it's almost as old as

3776
02:22:53,680 --> 02:22:55,120
>> what would our standard buffer strip to

3777
02:22:55,120 --> 02:22:57,760
the west be? It's right now it's 5T that

3778
02:22:57,760 --> 02:22:58,560
>> it' be 10.

3779
02:22:58,560 --> 02:22:59,600
>> Yeah.

3780
02:22:59,600 --> 02:23:01,200
>> Do do we have any

3781
02:23:01,200 --> 02:23:02,560
>> but it does have a masonry wall there.

3782
02:23:02,560 --> 02:23:04,720
>> So our thought was it has to have a m a

3783
02:23:04,720 --> 02:23:07,680
six foot masonry wall. So

3784
02:23:07,680 --> 02:23:10,000
yeah, we're encroaching on the the

3785
02:23:10,000 --> 02:23:11,920
buffer, but it would have a 6ft masonry

3786
02:23:11,920 --> 02:23:12,640
wall as a

3787
02:23:12,640 --> 02:23:14,800
>> but we always require a masonry wall

3788
02:23:14,800 --> 02:23:17,200
between residential and a new business.

3789
02:23:17,200 --> 02:23:19,439
So it's

3790
02:23:19,439 --> 02:23:22,399
>> I think that the 10 feet it's not a

3791
02:23:22,399 --> 02:23:24,240
magic number.

3792
02:23:24,240 --> 02:23:26,160
>> But with five feet, it's hard to do

3793
02:23:26,160 --> 02:23:28,640
trees. So that's the biggest reason for

3794
02:23:28,640 --> 02:23:31,200
something more than five feet.

3795
02:23:31,200 --> 02:23:31,920
Um

3796
02:23:31,920 --> 02:23:33,600
>> trees along Main Street in the street.

3797
02:23:33,600 --> 02:23:34,640
All right. Talking about the

3798
02:23:34,640 --> 02:23:35,680
>> And the trees would be in the park

3799
02:23:35,680 --> 02:23:36,720
strip.

3800
02:23:36,720 --> 02:23:39,120
>> Uh in the strip that's between the

3801
02:23:39,120 --> 02:23:41,040
parking spaces on the west and the house

3802
02:23:41,040 --> 02:23:41,439
and

3803
02:23:41,439 --> 02:23:42,640
>> on the back back of the parking lot.

3804
02:23:42,640 --> 02:23:44,319
>> Oh, on the back of the parking lot.

3805
02:23:44,319 --> 02:23:45,359
>> Some trees. I see

3806
02:23:45,359 --> 02:23:46,000
>> those.

3807
02:23:46,000 --> 02:23:47,040
>> Yeah,

3808
02:23:47,040 --> 02:23:49,600
>> that's a little tight.

3809
02:23:49,600 --> 02:23:50,319
>> Yeah.

3810
02:23:50,319 --> 02:23:53,200
>> And does he do they need to is it part

3811
02:23:53,200 --> 02:23:56,800
of in this zoning to have to part plant

3812
02:23:56,800 --> 02:23:58,399
trees along Main Street?

3813
02:23:58,399 --> 02:24:01,120
>> Uhhuh. Yeah. Now here I think we're

3814
02:24:01,120 --> 02:24:02,560
probably going to be talking as much as

3815
02:24:02,560 --> 02:24:04,000
anything about trying to just protect

3816
02:24:04,000 --> 02:24:05,600
the ones that are there.

3817
02:24:05,600 --> 02:24:07,600
>> Yeah, there's actually not any there

3818
02:24:07,600 --> 02:24:08,160
right now.

3819
02:24:08,160 --> 02:24:08,640
>> Oh yeah,

3820
02:24:08,640 --> 02:24:09,680
>> on this property.

3821
02:24:09,680 --> 02:24:10,240
>> Okay.

3822
02:24:10,240 --> 02:24:12,399
>> So yeah,

3823
02:24:12,399 --> 02:24:14,240
>> directly

3824
02:24:14,240 --> 02:24:18,150
south. Yeah.

3825
02:24:18,160 --> 02:24:21,280
» So that 20 foot setback from Main Street

3826
02:24:21,280 --> 02:24:24,000
to 15 to match like the other building.

3827
02:24:24,000 --> 02:24:26,080
Would that

3828
02:24:26,080 --> 02:24:28,080
>> even give a stall? Would that give do

3829
02:24:28,080 --> 02:24:28,960
anything for their parking?

3830
02:24:28,960 --> 02:24:30,880
>> I think we actually had it laid out that

3831
02:24:30,880 --> 02:24:33,439
way and it gave us a few extra stalls

3832
02:24:33,439 --> 02:24:35,760
along the building just parallel parking

3833
02:24:35,760 --> 02:24:39,110
stalls.

3834
02:24:39,120 --> 02:24:41,359
» So that could be an option

3835
02:24:41,359 --> 02:24:43,359
>> or it would allow you to make that 10

3836
02:24:43,359 --> 02:24:46,640
>> or make that take the

3837
02:24:46,640 --> 02:24:50,399
>> and put them back there. Right.

3838
02:24:50,399 --> 02:24:53,920
And just to because I'm curious, this is

3839
02:24:53,920 --> 02:24:56,000
an existing

3840
02:24:56,000 --> 02:24:58,720
entrance to the building that's over

3841
02:24:58,720 --> 02:25:00,399
it's just south of you. Correct.

3842
02:25:00,399 --> 02:25:02,240
>> Correct.

3843
02:25:02,240 --> 02:25:04,800
>> And there's no concerns with us with

3844
02:25:04,800 --> 02:25:06,960
this proposal

3845
02:25:06,960 --> 02:25:09,760
putting parking within I don't know what

3846
02:25:09,760 --> 02:25:11,520
from the property line, but they're

3847
02:25:11,520 --> 02:25:15,910
obviously backing into this

3848
02:25:15,920 --> 02:25:17,520
» shared. So there there's already a

3849
02:25:17,520 --> 02:25:19,600
shared access easement in place.

3850
02:25:19,600 --> 02:25:20,399
>> There is already.

3851
02:25:20,399 --> 02:25:20,800
>> Yeah.

3852
02:25:20,800 --> 02:25:21,280
>> Okay.

3853
02:25:21,280 --> 02:25:29,349
>> So

3854
02:25:29,359 --> 02:25:31,200
» that's our feedback for what good it was

3855
02:25:31,200 --> 02:25:32,399
worth.

3856
02:25:32,399 --> 02:25:34,319
>> So is it something that would be

3857
02:25:34,319 --> 02:25:35,600
>> I would say it's more hopeful than last

3858
02:25:35,600 --> 02:25:35,920
time.

3859
02:25:35,920 --> 02:25:38,240
>> Yeah, it was that is good feedback. Like

3860
02:25:38,240 --> 02:25:40,080
I said, so if it's something, like I

3861
02:25:40,080 --> 02:25:41,439
said, our biggest concern is we don't

3862
02:25:41,439 --> 02:25:43,680
want to put more time and money into

3863
02:25:43,680 --> 02:25:45,600
pursuing this if it's

3864
02:25:45,600 --> 02:25:47,520
>> not feasible. But based on the feedback,

3865
02:25:47,520 --> 02:25:49,920
it's feasible if we can work through

3866
02:25:49,920 --> 02:25:51,280
some of the

3867
02:25:51,280 --> 02:25:54,880
>> the issues, this concept is feasible.

3868
02:25:54,880 --> 02:25:56,000
>> Yeah. Sometimes I mean that's a good

3869
02:25:56,000 --> 02:25:58,000
point for everybody to be aware of if

3870
02:25:58,000 --> 02:26:00,560
this is don't be nice because being nice

3871
02:26:00,560 --> 02:26:03,359
when it's something you want is is money

3872
02:26:03,359 --> 02:26:04,720
that the applicant's going to spend.

3873
02:26:04,720 --> 02:26:06,160
>> It's actually really mean.

3874
02:26:06,160 --> 02:26:09,120
>> Yeah, it is. you know, you're that's

3875
02:26:09,120 --> 02:26:10,080
>> we try to avoid that.

3876
02:26:10,080 --> 02:26:11,760
>> So, we're we're already about 10,000

3877
02:26:11,760 --> 02:26:13,439
into plans on this. So, at this point,

3878
02:26:13,439 --> 02:26:15,520
we'd just like to know, yes, keep

3879
02:26:15,520 --> 02:26:17,520
pursuing it or

3880
02:26:17,520 --> 02:26:19,040
>> go back to the drawing board. And

3881
02:26:19,040 --> 02:26:20,720
>> I do like this a lot more. I'm with

3882
02:26:20,720 --> 02:26:21,920
Todd, though. The setback on Main

3883
02:26:21,920 --> 02:26:24,479
Street, I like it how it is in this. I

3884
02:26:24,479 --> 02:26:27,760
>> even if I got it extra spots, I don't

3885
02:26:27,760 --> 02:26:30,479
>> for me the the parking is I I feel like

3886
02:26:30,479 --> 02:26:32,160
same feedback I think I gave you last

3887
02:26:32,160 --> 02:26:33,280
time, maybe a little bit less feedback

3888
02:26:33,280 --> 02:26:34,960
than I gave you last time, but it's I

3889
02:26:34,960 --> 02:26:36,080
feel like it's a big project for the

3890
02:26:36,080 --> 02:26:37,600
area. If we could get some accounts

3891
02:26:37,600 --> 02:26:39,439
down, that would help me out and getting

3892
02:26:39,439 --> 02:26:40,800
me to be on board with it. And then

3893
02:26:40,800 --> 02:26:42,880
parking. So, I see those two issues that

3894
02:26:42,880 --> 02:26:44,319
are a big concern to me.

3895
02:26:44,319 --> 02:26:45,200
>> Okay.

3896
02:26:45,200 --> 02:26:48,640
>> I think having carports I I I'm not hung

3897
02:26:48,640 --> 02:26:51,040
up on having

3898
02:26:51,040 --> 02:26:53,840
uh what are those called? Garages. I

3899
02:26:53,840 --> 02:26:55,359
think the carports in that area of

3900
02:26:55,359 --> 02:26:59,120
town's fine actually. Yeah.

3901
02:26:59,120 --> 02:27:03,600
>> Uh yeah, that's just that parking thing.

3902
02:27:03,600 --> 02:27:05,600
I think I think even with the parking I

3903
02:27:05,600 --> 02:27:06,720
think parking is just going to be messy

3904
02:27:06,720 --> 02:27:07,920
with what we're talking about down

3905
02:27:07,920 --> 02:27:10,720
there. I don't think it

3906
02:27:10,720 --> 02:27:12,240
when I say it's not a showstopper. I

3907
02:27:12,240 --> 02:27:14,000
think I think we already maybe could

3908
02:27:14,000 --> 02:27:15,600
just be wise wide open. This is going to

3909
02:27:15,600 --> 02:27:17,200
be difficult. Other than that, I kind of

3910
02:27:17,200 --> 02:27:18,479
like everything else you're doing here.

3911
02:27:18,479 --> 02:27:20,240
I don't know that I would change down to

3912
02:27:20,240 --> 02:27:22,240
15, but I think you should probably

3913
02:27:22,240 --> 02:27:23,600
leave 20 because I think if there's

3914
02:27:23,600 --> 02:27:25,439
enough friction up here, that's probably

3915
02:27:25,439 --> 02:27:27,760
a good place to go.

3916
02:27:27,760 --> 02:27:28,800
>> Yeah. Okay.

3917
02:27:28,800 --> 02:27:31,280
>> Yeah. Because then you you kind of cover

3918
02:27:31,280 --> 02:27:37,270
us all tight.

3919
02:27:37,280 --> 02:27:38,319
Okay.

3920
02:27:38,319 --> 02:27:38,960
>> Appreciate it.

3921
02:27:38,960 --> 02:27:39,439
>> Thank you.

3922
02:27:39,439 --> 02:27:42,950
guys.

3923
02:27:42,960 --> 02:27:46,000
» Staff, any other comments or are we okay

3924
02:27:46,000 --> 02:27:48,080
to adjurnn?

3925
02:27:48,080 --> 02:27:49,359
>> Uh, we don't have anything tonight, but

3926
02:27:49,359 --> 02:27:50,479
we're happy to stick around as long as

3927
02:27:50,479 --> 02:27:51,359
you want. Is there anything you guys

3928
02:27:51,359 --> 02:27:52,080
want to chat about?

3929
02:27:52,080 --> 02:27:54,160
>> Anything to go over? If not, I'll take a

3930
02:27:54,160 --> 02:27:55,520
motion to adjurnn.

3931
02:27:55,520 --> 02:27:57,040
>> I'll make a motion we adjourn.

3932
02:27:57,040 --> 02:27:57,760
>> I'll second.

3933
02:27:57,760 --> 02:27:59,120
>> Thank you. I have a motion, a second.

3934
02:27:59,120 --> 02:28:02,640
All in favor? I

3935
02:28:02,640 --> 02:28:05,439
We stand adjourned.