[4:07] All right, good evening everybody. It is
uh 5:31. This is the pre-aggenda meeting
[4:11] for the Time Spencer Board of Alderman
for our upcoming regular meeting next
[4:17] Tuesday night. So, this is uh our June
5th pre-aggenda meeting. We're called to
[4:21] order. We have um um all but two of our
members present this evening and then
[4:27] this lady is uh battled some back
problems tonight. So her in our prayers
[4:34] um and not sure about so hopefully she's
okay. We will go ahead and start with an
[4:39] invocation and the pledge of allegiance.
So if you will, we'll start with an
[4:42] invocation. Father God, we thank you
very much for nourishing rain that we've
[4:47] seen today. We thank you for all that is
going on in our town, progress that's
[4:52] being made. We thank you for uh the
folks that are here tonight. We look
[4:57] forward to hearing from them. We ask
that you be with us as we consider uh
[5:02] things like our upcoming budget for the
next fiscal year. We thank you for the
[5:06] staff that have put countless hours into
working to prepare this. And we ask you
[5:11] give wisdom, guidance, and discernment
to our board as we can this budget over
[5:17] the uh over the next week. And we ask
you all those that work within our town,
[5:23] keep them safe in their daily daily
work. And I hope them that they continue
[5:28] the work to the betterment of all of our
citizens and businesses. Amen. Please
[5:33] rise for the pledge of allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
[5:39] United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one
[5:45] nation, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.
[5:54] Right. So, board, we have a couple
things going on this evening. Um the
[5:59] first will be a public hearing for our
proposed budget for fiscal year 2025 and
[6:05] 2026. Uh we then also have um one budget
ordinance to consider this evening. And
[6:11] then finally, we will review the agenda
and set that agenda um in preparation
[6:17] for next Tuesday's regular meeting. All
right, Mr.
[6:22] anything you need to be aware of before
we get ready to move into the initial
[6:27] budget discussion?
Yes, sir. Okay. Very good. Uh we will go
[6:32] ahead and move into item three on our
pre-agenda meeting um agenda for the
[6:38] public hearing for the upcoming uh 2025
2026 uh budget year. Mr. Granstein will
[6:44] open for you and some initial comments.
Well, thank you very much mayor and
[6:49] members of the board. As you know, the
recommended budget was provided a few
[6:54] weeks ago. The recommended budget this
year
[6:59] totals just about $5 million. It
represents overall a 13% decrease from
[7:05] the current year budget and in the
general fund a 7% decrease. This was a
[7:11] particularly challenging budget where we
are not uh able to do all the things
[7:17] that we want to do and we're working as
hard as we can to make the best of it
[7:21] while looking forward to uh the growth
that we know is on the horizon. And uh
[7:27] there were a variety of questions and
discussion points that we had during uh
[7:32] the recommendation a few weeks back. We
have some additional information that
[7:36] can be provided. I don't know if you
want to go through any of that now or or
[7:41] kind of wait until we are on the other
side
[7:44] of any public comments we may receive
and then we can go through that. But
[7:49] pleasure of the board.
[7:53] Okay, I think that would be good. That
way uh if there's any clarification or
[7:57] anything like that would be
helpful. All right. All right. So, we
[8:03] will now officially open the public
hearing for the proposed fiscal year
[8:06] budget. We have three individuals signed
up to speak this evening. Is there
[8:11] anyone else before we begin that wishes
to sign up to speak this evening that
[8:15] hasn't signed up? All right. We'll uh
invite Miss Leslie Calbert forward. Uh
[8:21] as a reminder for folks, as you do come
forward, please state your name and
[8:24] address for the record. You will have
three minutes for public comment. We
[8:27] have a timer up on the screens um so
that you'll be able to see that.
[8:32] And I'll get that up here in a moment. I
timed it at home. I just had to talk
[8:38] fast. Perfect. All
right. You No, let me get my last
[8:44] sentence, please.
[8:49] My name is Wesley Talbert. I live at 308
North Salsbury Avenue. I have been a
[8:54] resident here since
2017. And I want to talk about the
[8:58] budget and I know that it's a struggle
and you work very hard on it. And I I
[9:03] just ask you to consider these things
going forward. Keep them in your mind
[9:07] all year long. Um I've heard recently
people say, "Oh, Spencer's going to be
[9:12] the next Canab. It's a lovely town. I
didn't. that if I wanted to live in
[9:16] Canapapolis, I would have bought there.
I chose Spencer because of its history,
[9:22] its character, and its community that
embodies resilience and
[9:30] hope because they held on in tough times
believing and trusting that better times
[9:35] would be coming. They held on their
generation.
[9:40] It was that palpable faith in the future
and their unique character that drew me
[9:45] to
Spencer. I bought here in 2017 and since
[9:50] then the appraised value of my house has
increased 67% and all I did was put
[9:54] paint on it and my tax in home insurance
has
[9:58] doubled. Our incomes are not keeping
pace with the assessments.
[10:04] Families that have held on here for
generations are being priced out of a
[10:09] town that they fought to keep alive.
It's not
[10:13] right. They are being replaced by
landlords and new investors who care
[10:18] nothing about our past or our future
only in the now. And I can speak to that
[10:23] question.
We relied on you to grow Spencer wisely
[10:27] to protect and improve our current
residents lives and property while
[10:32] judiciously adding to our infrastructure
and bringing us new
[10:36] residents. You all tell us of the grant
grant money for new expansions for
[10:42] Spencer and to drawing new residents,
but where is the grant money or the
[10:46] bonds or etc the funding for the
families that held on? We need to build
[10:52] on our strengths and our small town
character and values and measure that
[10:56] against the new growth. Our locals are
struggling to hang on. How much longer
[11:01] can you ask them to hang on without your
support or at least giving them a bonus?
[11:08] I implore you take another look at the
current budget and any future
[11:12] expenditures and avoid rate increases
and invest in something anything that
[11:17] our longtime residents need i.e.
roads, sidewalks, and possible some kind
[11:25] of funding for uh economically depressed
incomes. I think I did
[11:33] it. The park is nice and I love the
idea, but it's not was not on the not
[11:39] this park, but the park
scand. It's not costing us anything, but
[11:44] we still had to raise funds.
handing our historic commercial district
[11:49] homes over to we've got to bring in we
need streets and sidewalks to sell those
[11:55] homes and that is part of our unique
character. So I implore please consider
[12:01] Thank you
M. All right, next we have uh Greg
[12:06] Bennett.
[12:17] Hi, my name is Greg Bennett. I live at
406 South Hudson Avenue and I've been
[12:22] here since
2014. I don't have a speech and I agree
[12:26] with just about everything the lady said
before uh I got up here. Um, the thing
[12:33] that's stood out to me, I get the salary
vote and every municipality in this
[12:41] county has kept their taxes the same
whereas Spencer is the only one that's
[12:47] raising its tax and that concerns me.
I'm retired. I'm on a fixed income and
[12:54] my taxes went up 62% from 2022 to
2023, which is a significant
[13:03] amount. Um, I plan on living here until
I pass
[13:08] away. Uh, the value of my house has very
little meaning to me other than, you
[13:13] know, what my heirs may get for it, and
that's not going to benefit me in any
[13:18] way. But I'd like to see some control on
the property taxes
[13:24] town. Um, I've compared property taxes
to other municipalities in this county.
[13:31] Um, salt area is by far the highest, but
we're second
[13:37] highest and there's municipalities that
are much bigger or at least bigger than
[13:42] we are um whose tax rates are not as
significant as
[13:47] ours. So, I'd like to see some curve put
on um what our expenditures are in the
[13:53] future uh particularly in the in the
upcoming budget for those of us that
[14:00] really can't afford much of a tax
increase seeing as uh our economy looks
[14:05] like it's on the downturn to begin with.
So that's all I have to say. Thank you.
[14:09] Thank you.
[14:13] All right. Next is Carla Gray.
[14:19] Hey there. My name is Carla Gray. I live
at 211 North and I have lived in center
[14:24] for 22 and a half years. Um I don't
really have anything prepared, but I do
[14:29] have concerns about the budget. I took
extra time this afternoon and actually
[14:33] read the whole thing and I have a number
of questions. Um I know that you can't
[14:38] answer back right now, but I would
appreciate an answer to these um because
[14:43] they are important questions. I first
want to start by echoing I like
[14:47] everybody else have had a increase in my
property tax. Um, you know, we had
[14:54] Joanne and then Spencer and then the
little vehicle tax cut and now another
[14:59] increase and we're really not seeing a
lot of of benefits from those tax
[15:03] increases. Um, it the roads, sidewalks,
I'm not even going to bemoone all of
[15:08] those things, but there are some
concerns I have and I'd like again to
[15:14] hopefully get an answer to these. One of
the other things that I really want to
[15:17] point out, I understand that this is a
decrease in the budget, but I also want
[15:20] to point out to
Everybody, I know that y'all are aware
[15:24] of this that a lot of that decrease is
not a real decrease. It's ARPA funding
[15:30] decrease. And so there's a big
difference in what the budget was
[15:35] precoid and before ARPA funding and then
the funding that was was gotten for this
[15:42] town through ARPA and expended and where
we're at now. So that's that's kind of a
[15:48] false narrative to say that we've had a
really big decrease in the budget. ARPA
[15:52] funding was never intended to be
permanent. So it's a false narrative.
[15:56] But my questions are really why um is
there the move for code enforcement to
[16:02] go to the police
department? You know, I think that a lot
[16:06] of us have had issues and had questions
about code enforcement as it has been um
[16:12] lacking. Um, but why is it going to the
police department? Obviously, we have a
[16:17] lot of police. So, why is that
happening? Why is the resource officer
[16:23] positions no longer going to be
dedicated? Um, there's over $200,000
[16:28] when you look at the combined uh
different budget or there's over
[16:33] $200,000 in in contracted services. What
are those contracted services for? Uh
[16:40] and then my last one really is just a
general question which is more of a for
[16:45] me kind of an understanding of where the
budget is aligning. Um it you've got
[16:50] administratively that the this new park
position is going to be under the
[16:55] administrative organization yet the
funding is out of out of uh public works
[17:00] and that's just a clarification that I
have. Again I understand that this is
[17:04] difficult task and I appreciate that.
Um, I would like to see the budget
[17:09] really reviewed as a baseline budget,
not a budget that is now without proper
[17:16] funding. That's it. Thank you. Thank
you, Mr.
[17:20] All right, that's all we have signed up
this evening. And so with that, is there
[17:25] a motion to close the public hearing?
Move to close. All right. Motion to
[17:31] close public hearing. Is there
second by Mr. Muhamad? All in
[17:36] favor? All right. All opposed. All
right. Public hearing is now closed and
[17:41] we will then open it up for any
discussion or questions uh from the
[17:45] board and manager.
[17:54] Well, okay.
So, um I just want to provide a little
[17:58] context um because I know there has been
a ton of work that's gone in. I think
[18:03] our citizens acknowledge that. I think
we also recognize that the tax burden
[18:08] ultimately falls to our citizens and um
we do hear you and we recognize that
[18:14] when these tax increases are proposed,
they impact all of us. Um those of us
[18:20] sitting up here, we live in town too and
they impact us similarly. Um I think the
[18:26] other thing too that we need to
recognize is that they do impact
[18:29] different people in our community more
so than some more so than others. Um and
[18:33] we are very cognizant of that. Um I also
want to reiterate that our staff is
[18:38] cognizant of that too. So it's not like
that is not considered in the budgeting
[18:43] process or um we do recognize that we
have to live within our means. Um, one
[18:49] of the things I heard um, from one of
the speakers that, you know, I want to
[18:54] reiterate, we do recognize that we want
to maintain the charm of the small town
[18:59] character that the town of Spencer has,
but we also recognize that as a
[19:05] municipality, if you're not growing,
you're dying. Um, and so there has to be
[19:09] some balanced growth to that. And that
has been our goal and our strategy to
[19:13] make sure that we have that balanced
growth to where we are bringing new
[19:16] folks into our community. Uh that we are
promoting new businesses, new
[19:21] industries, things like that, but that
we're doing so with minimal impact to
[19:25] the character of our town and ultimately
minimal impact to the citizens that have
[19:31] have lived here, whether it be for four
years or whether it be for 22 years or
[19:35] more. Um the challenge that we face is
we're in a very interesting spot right
[19:42] now. Um those of you who know alluded to
the situation with the economy, but
[19:47] we've been very fortunate in the past
several years with a good economy that
[19:50] we've attracted a lot of attention from
folks like developers and things like
[19:54] that. And we have lots of projects like
that on the edges of our town that have
[19:59] recently annexed and come into our town.
Um, and a lot of those are larger
[20:05] industries and things like that, but
cost to serve is actually going to be
[20:08] lower than residential development.
That's a good thing. Um, some may say
[20:13] it's not, but for the longevity of our
town, it is a good thing. And for a tax
[20:17] rate, it's a good thing. And so for our
individual citizens, when it comes to
[20:21] your tax bill, that's a good thing. That
good thing has not happened yet. And I
[20:26] think we all realize that, but we see
signs of it. We see the truck stop
[20:30] filling in. you see um we get updates
from Mr. Blunt of the industrial and
[20:36] various development projects that are
happening. We have development on
[20:39] Hawkins down road. All of that stuff we
are going to eventually see the reap the
[20:44] rewards
of an example is China Earth. You may
[20:49] have seen in the paper they're with the
Macy's facility that they have. Um I
[20:53] think it's something
like I don't know
[20:58] $275,000 in additional revenue. Couple
million. Couple million 71%. 71%
[21:04] increase. So you think about the town of
Spencer. If our tax revenue was to
[21:08] increase 71% what that's going to do for
you as individuals and us as
[21:12] individuals, it means our property tax
rate would go down because we now have
[21:17] more revenue coming in. The expenses
maintain or stay the same roughly. And
[21:23] so what that then means is ultimately to
balance the budget tax rate goes down.
[21:30] There are a lot of municipalities and I
think Spencer used to do this where we
[21:34] kept the tax rate flat year after year
after year. And what we did was we
[21:38] relied and a lot of years we relied on
either fund balance or a lot of times we
[21:45] were actually charging residents and
then we put money back in the fund
[21:48] balance and building up the fund
balance. The reality is when you do
[21:52] that, we're not actually giving back to
the community, right? We're charging you
[21:55] for something in one year that you're
not getting that particular year or even
[21:59] maybe the next. So, what we've done is
made a strategy to where we're actually
[22:04] trying to keep fund balance at a
reasonable level, but not continuing to
[22:08] build it up and build it up and build it
up so that we don't have to so we don't
[22:14] have taxes higher than they need to. the
reality just like what was mentioned um
[22:20] insurance right your property insurance
has doubled it's done that for all of us
[22:25] it's the same thing with the town our
property insurance increases and there's
[22:28] a good bit of property we've had to add
additional staff one of the things that
[22:33] we heard a year ago was um a little over
a year ago there was concern over uh
[22:39] gunshots and things like that there was
concern over um drug activity and stuff
[22:44] like that and we responded We responded
by adding additional officers. And
[22:49] you'll look our our firefighters and our
police officers, they're here tonight.
[22:53] They showed up in force and I think they
showed up in force because one of the
[22:57] hard things and the hard realities of
this budget is that we cut out a
[23:02] potential um at least the proposed
budget cuts out a
[23:07] um to their salaries that would bring
them up above what the market averages
[23:12] based on our salary stud. That's a tough
pill to swallow. Well, we have a staff
[23:16] as good as as our staff that we have
here today. And so, you know, some of
[23:21] them are sitting here on the other fence
saying, "Well, we wish you to raise the
[23:24] taxes to be able to do those merit
increases." The reality is is it has to
[23:27] be a compromise. It has to be a
compromise between our community, our
[23:31] staff, and us as a board. Um, and so
what's been presented, you know, it's
[23:37] not ideal for anybody at this point in
time, but it's compromise that we've
[23:42] gotten to. we hear you and we'll go back
and consider and when it comes to
[23:46] Tuesday, you know, what we vote on or
what we ultimately end up doing. Um,
[23:50] it's going to consider all of that and
it's going to consider each side of it.
[23:54] What I want to point out though
is Spencer doesn't we as a town, we
[24:01] define your tax rate. We don't define
your tax value. That's rowing county and
[24:07] ultimately it's based off of market
conditions. And so market conditions two
[24:11] years ago
set what they appraised your our
[24:15] properties at and it was high, right? We
saw it go up. Now, I've heard from some
[24:21] some folks are seeing their appraisals
and things now being less than what they
[24:26] were two years
ago. That may be the case. Um, if the
[24:31] economy turns down, for sure it will
probably be the case. But the reality is
[24:35] we have to base our rate off of what the
appraised value is. So, what we do is we
[24:41] look at what expenses need to be each
year and then we have to make sure that
[24:45] we have revenue to match that for a
balance budget. If we don't, it means we
[24:50] have to do one of two things for both.
That's cut expenses and raise uh revenue
[24:56] and that comes by raising
taxes. We are projecting less of a sales
[25:01] tax increase because of that economic
downturn based on guidance we've gotten
[25:05] from the state of North Carolina and
municipalities. We projected less growth
[25:09] in sales tax than we've typically seen.
And so that means in order to keep up
[25:14] with rising gas and rising insurance and
you all of those things that are
[25:19] increasing for all of us at home,
they're increasing for the town as well.
[25:22] We have to find a way to offset that. So
that comes in cutting cost on one side,
[25:27] but unfortunately this year comes in
raising taxes slowly. So that's where I
[25:31] get back to all this development, right?
So, if we're to increase our tax revenue
[25:36] by 71% like Tonic Grove did, we we're
not having this discussion. The
[25:40] discussion we're having is we're
reducing your tax rate by
[25:44] X%. Unfortunately, it's not this coming
year and it may not be next year. But
[25:50] within the next two years, that's when
you're really going to see these
[25:53] projects coming online and that
additional tax revenue. That's when we
[25:57] get to start talking about reducing tax
rates. And so, you know, I sat up here
[26:02] at the beginning when we first started
this process and I said, "There's no way
[26:06] we can go up on our tax." And so, that's
what we worked from. That's what
[26:11] guidance we gave staff to work from was
find a way to make this happen without
[26:16] increasing. And y'all worked. I know
there were some midnight nights and some
[26:20] really late nights working to get this
information together and staff providing
[26:24] the information, but ultimately what
came out of it was the best
[26:28] recommendation that y'all follow for us
now to consider based on input that we
[26:32] heard from the community, the feedback
we've got from staff. Um, but you know,
[26:38] that's the recommendation. So, that's
what we're going to have to consider.
[26:41] So, you know, this is not something that
we just take lightly. It's not something
[26:45] that we want to just for a money grab.
Unfortunately, this is actually a tough
[26:51] year when it comes to the budget. Part
of that is, as Mrs. Gray said, you know,
[26:55] our ARPA funding is now gone away.
Um, the ARPA funding was a great thing.
[27:02] Uh, it allowed us to do a lot of
projects that we wouldn't have otherwise
[27:06] gotten to do. Um, it allowed us to
basically supplant funds, um, use funds
[27:12] that we would have used for staffing for
the purpose of some of these projects.
[27:16] Um, we've gotten to do some really
stuff. Now, we're having to take a step
[27:20] back and say, "All right, we've been
able to be really aggressive with these
[27:24] projects. We do need to slow that down a
little bit and um and take stock of it."
[27:30] But what I want to for folks to come
away from tonight
[27:33] is yeah, what's being recommended
doesn't feel good. Doesn't feel good to
[27:38] any of us. And I know it didn't feel
good for staff. Didn't feel good for
[27:41] staff have to propose a tax increase. It
also didn't feel good for staff to have
[27:45] to cut some of the things that we
proposed to cut. My commitment, as long
[27:50] as I am sitting in this chair, and I
think those around me would agree, our
[27:55] commitment is to make sure that we're
providing you with the services that you
[27:58] need to be a thriving and successful
community, that we're making sure that
[28:03] we're carrying forth the priorities of
the community, and that we're doing that
[28:07] as good stewards of the tax dollars that
we are putting in. Um, so all that to
[28:14] say is if we want to cut beyond the two
cent increase, if we want to not raise
[28:22] taxes, there would have to be cuts that
would happen. And my my question, I
[28:27] guess, to the the citizens is what do
you want us to cut? Because what I heard
[28:31] tonight was not not not cutting stuff.
What I heard was more money's needed for
[28:36] roads. More money is needed for a
variety of different things. Well, the
[28:40] reality is
beyond taxes increasing, there's not
[28:45] beyond things like bonds. Um, and I
heard that, you know, those are options,
[28:51] but ultimately that's going to cost our
citizens more. And so, that's something
[28:55] we have to really work.
I've talked enough,
[29:00] but yeah, go ahead. I'd like I've got
some comments I'd like to make. I've
[29:03] spent a lot of hours looking at the
budget that was prepared by our
[29:06] management and staff to make the best
use of the funds that will be available
[29:10] for the operation of this town during
the next 12 months. I don't remember if
[29:14] I raised my hand when asked if it was a
consensus of the board not to increase
[29:18] our tax rate a few meetings ago, but I
realized that when the federal monies
[29:22] ran out, we'd be faced with hard
decisions.
[29:26] This town's been able to do a lot of
great things in the last years and we've
[29:29] made progress so towards some lofty
goals. Much of what has been
[29:33] accomplished has happened because there
are people in our area who believed in
[29:37] the town of Spencer and who've been
generous in putting their money in
[29:41] projects that were identified. We have
used OPM other people's money for some
[29:47] of what you have seen and a lot of what
you see. I'm sure I'll leave out
[29:52] someone, but we've received grants and
gifts from the North Carolina Parks and
[29:56] Recreation Trust Fund, from the Carolina
Thread Trail, from Fred and Alice
[30:01] Stanach Foundation, from the Canon
Foundation, Friends of Rowan, the Rowan
[30:06] County Arts Council, the Margaret C.
Woodson Foundation, the North Carolina
[30:11] Railroad, the Robertson Foundation, a
federal community block grant, grant
[30:17] funding from the EPA Brownfields program
with Central Council, land and property
[30:22] from Three Rivers Land Trust, and the
Yadkin Historical Museum Foundation.
[30:27] Spencer Presbyterian Church has made
space for our community garden. And the
[30:32] list goes on and on and on to
acknowledge the many individuals and
[30:35] families who have stepped up to help us
grow. We've used that opium of other
[30:41] people's money to build a lovely park
with features that our citizens said
[30:45] they wanted. We've won grants by adding
things to our projects that make Spencer
[30:50] a desirable place to live. We're more
working to bring more amenities to the
[30:55] community to encourage growth. We've
talked about summer programs for youth
[30:59] here and events in our new park space.
It's been suggested that we delay adding
[31:04] an employee to do an active living
program to the town. Our manager and
[31:09] staff were sent back to the drawing
board to try and find more cost savings
[31:13] to keep our tax rate lower than the
projected two cent increase when the
[31:17] numbers for the budget came up short. I
pulled out my 2024 ruining county
[31:22] property tax notice and I saw the
evaluation on my property is
[31:28] $227,531 and my tax bill for Spencer was
[31:34] $1,37656 based on 60.5 per 100. When I
take that same evaluation and calculate
[31:41] the new amount with a tax rate of 62.5
cents per 100, my tax bill becomes
[31:49] $1,422.7. That's a difference of
$45.51 more. And if I divide that by 12
[31:56] months, that's
$3.79 a month added taxes. You may not
[32:02] remember this, but a few years ago, we
the board lowered our tax rate. And I
[32:07] was chastised by a longtime resident who
said, "You never lower the tax
[32:13] rate." I feel that we need to continue
the progress we started when I was
[32:17] elected to serve the citizens of Spencer
in 2019. I feel that we need to support
[32:22] the employees that work for us and pay
them what they deserve. And we need to
[32:27] continue to provide the best service we
can for our citizens. Yes, roads,
[32:31] sidewalks, potholes, those are problems.
We know that. Additionally, we should
[32:36] honor those people who believe in the
future of Spencer and have made our
[32:39] growth possible. I know that soon we
will have additional investments in our
[32:43] community, which will increase our
revenues and bring in additional taxes
[32:47] and grow our tax base. But until then, I
support a modest tax increase.
[32:54] Thank you, M. Sledge. Thank
you. board at this time. Are there other
[32:58] is there other input, other questions,
other comments? Yeah, I I'll Mr. May, if
[33:04] I may, just offer a couple of comments.
Um, first of all, it's nice to have you
[33:09] all here tonight. That's good.
Um, I do think um, number one, I I don't
[33:16] think our priorities are I think there's
a risk that we could leave here tonight,
[33:21] next week, and think that somehow
there's a division. There's not. I I
[33:25] everything that you've said I absolutely
agree with. Two years from now, this
[33:28] will not be a problem. Three years from
now, perhaps 12 months from now, this
[33:32] will not be a problem. Um Miss Gray is
absolutely correct that that ARPA funds
[33:36] are partly responsible for why we're
having this conversation. I mean, I
[33:39] think we all agree. I think the question
is how do we address the next problem?
[33:43] How do we address this particular
situation, right?
[33:47] Um but also, I do think we have to keep
things in silos. Um Leslie, I absolutely
[33:52] agree. Our roads are are not good. I I
I've talked about Fifth Street I don't
[33:56] know how many times, right? We But as I
I as we talked about with the community
[34:01] walk up a few months ago, those are sens
of 60 years of neglect. It would take
[34:06] millions and t tens of millions of
dollars to fix that. It's not going to
[34:10] happen ne next month, next year, and a
decade from now. We'll probably still be
[34:14] having this conversation. It's just that
bad. And that's that's not your fault.
[34:18] It's not our fault. We have to fix what
60 years didn't fix. And that that's
[34:22] that's the unfortunate truth, right? No,
sure. I'm just saying I mean I I mean
[34:27] you're absolutely right. We just that's
something we'll have to do really small
[34:30] bites, right? Um and I also think, you
know, when I moved here and I I went to
[34:36] school in Spencer, I didn't live here
until 2010. When I moved here, my house
[34:40] was 40% less valuable than the same
house might have been sitting in rock or
[34:44] granite or faith because no one wanted
to live here. This was a depressed
[34:48] community that had been frozen in time
since the shops packed up and left.
[34:52] Right? That's all changed and that's all
great. And I I've said it up here
[34:56] before. I don't think I ever saw that
happening 12 15 years ago. It's
[35:00] wonderful that it's happened. And we all
deserve it. And the folks who've been
[35:03] here for 20 or 30 or 40 or 60 or 80
years, you really really deserve it
[35:07] because you stuck it out and you made it
work, right? So, we have to we have to
[35:11] remember that the momentary issue is not
a reflection of where we've been or
[35:17] where we're going. Now, with that said,
I'm not going to support a 2% increase
[35:20] or two not 2% a 2% increase just because
I told you last year that I was going to
[35:24] 60, but I wasn't going any higher. I'm
not. Now, what that means
[35:29] unfortunately is, as you said, the only
way to reduce expenses is to cut
[35:35] services. I mean, there's there's no
other math to make this work unless
[35:39] we're gonna sell t-shirts or something,
which I'm open to that. That's cool. I
[35:42] like t-shirts, but um or sell some, you
know, world's finest chocolate or
[35:46] something like that. I, you know, or
sell fruit like the B like that's right.
[35:51] Yeah. Sell fruit. So, you know, that's
that's the reality here. The the also
[35:57] the really unfortunate reality is that
staff with Mr. trans and this board
[36:01] before I was up here and our chiefs and
our employees have worked really really
[36:05] hard to turn organizations that were not
in great shape five or six years ago
[36:11] into first class organizations that keep
you safe. And we've got to ask them to
[36:17] kind of take it on faith that we can
give them something that they maybe
[36:20] thought they were going to get maybe in
12 months or 24 months from now. So
[36:24] we've got to find a way to balance all
of that now. So hopefully they all say
[36:31] hang out with us for a little while
longer while we figure this out. Um
[36:35] those lead to tough conversations. Um
and I you know I'm glad you guys are
[36:39] here too and we see you. We value you
and having four kids in my family here.
[36:45] I know you guys are going to keep us
safe. I appreciate what you do. So um
[36:50] we've got to find a way to balance all
of that. Um you know I I've we talked
[36:56] out some ideas in the last meeting. I
hope maybe those have stuck. Um I did
[37:00] raise the issue of of of that position
maybe not doing it with parks. Not
[37:04] because we don't need it or I know we've
talked about that a few years but it's a
[37:08] situation where it's a it's a position
that's a hypothetical. I know maybe
[37:14] we're interviewing people. I don't know
who those are. I don't know where
[37:16] they're from. I have no idea. Honestly,
I'm glad I don't know. But we've got to
[37:20] make sure to the extent we can we don't
raise the rate and at the same time keep
[37:24] those folks back they're happy because I
want them to keep keep us safe. Um and
[37:29] you know I know that's a tough pill to
swallow. It's a little bit of a setback
[37:33] but um I I don't you know I don't think
there's a division among us up here.
[37:36] It's just about how do we get through
this bump in the road and then we'll be
[37:40] off and running. And to that end, I
think you know what we are working on is
[37:45] set up priorities that we developed
several years ago as a board. We've all
[37:50] done a lot of stuff making sure we're
moving those priorities forward and
[37:54] those priorities were what we heard from
our community. You recall back in early
[38:00] 2020, I guess.
Um we had the session at North Carolina
[38:05] High School. we had the community show
up and the things we're doing now are
[38:09] the things that our community told us
they want. Um and so we're working to
[38:14] mess our priorities. Um I know you
brought up we would not move forward
[38:20] with that parks and recreation position.
Um, I'm of the opinion that well, yeah,
[38:26] we could do that, but also I'm of the
opinion, but we've got to be really
[38:31] careful about stepping back from all the
progress that has been made over the
[38:36] last several years because, you know, I
I think I shared with y'all at one of
[38:40] our strategic planning retreats that we
did a an addage that uh that not to look
[38:46] back, but that we're not going back. Uh,
we're moving forward. And so we have to
[38:51] be what I don't want to do is backtrack
to take steps back from where we now all
[38:58] that say is we need to be very cognizant
about if we are at new position but keep
[39:04] in mind some of our other departments
we've frozen some positions so it's a
[39:10] balancing act that between all of that
what I'm concerned about on the
[39:13] recreation side is we've got all these
new facilities you heard from our
[39:17] residents too what program for that and
my concern is you're going to have
[39:23] facilities sit for a year and their
program is happening and things like
[39:26] that and then we're going to be right
back at the situation where our
[39:30] residents are asking why aren't you
doing anything with these
[39:34] things so I do think that position is
important my opinion is we need to move
[39:38] forward with it because we planned it
was part of the priorities been part of
[39:43] priorities for the last several years
you planned it in this this year's
[39:48] budget
timing wise we're at the point that it's
[39:51] likely going to happen at the beginning
of a that's an important thing it's an
[39:57] easy cut it's easy to look at it and say
that's a nice chunk let's cut it but I
[40:03] think the detriment some of the progress
that's been made I think will be not
[40:10] I hear
you this is yeah this is one of the
[40:14] toughest things I said y'all y'all voted
me in and gave me two more years. So,
[40:19] I've got two more years of budget stuff
to struggle with. And this is not easy.
[40:24] I'm telling you. I mean, we have staff
members who've been here till 3 in the
[40:27] morning trying to work through it,
trying to come up with answers. And I
[40:30] can't tell you how many hours I've spent
with it. I'm, you know, I can't even
[40:35] keep up with it. But anyway, um it's
tough. And I know that I, you know, I
[40:41] live on fixed income. I'm retired. I
have social security and um I don't have
[40:47] any other income u from a a partner. So
I mean I I see your point.
[40:53] Um there's just no easy access. Yeah.
You know and I I wanted to mention I
[40:59] know one of there was a comment made
about how our rate tax rate compares to
[41:05] somewhere like Salsbury or something
like that or other larger communities
[41:08] that have a much lower tax rate. There's
a reason for that and I
[41:14] But it's not an apples to apples
comparison. And the reason why is in
[41:17] much larger communities because they
have so many more people and so many
[41:21] more businesses and industries their tax
revenue is much much higher for the
[41:26] services that they provide. And so, you
know, we're we're a much smaller
[41:32] community with limited industry, limited
business. And so what we need to keep
[41:39] our community safe and keep our
community running and functioning, uh
[41:43] the the cost, the unit cost is higher
than it would be in a much larger city.
[41:48] That's and that's just that's across the
board. All small towns are going to have
[41:52] that that challenge. Um there's a reason
some of the other municipalities haven't
[41:57] raised rates. Um Salsbury struggled.
Salsbury had to make some major cuts. Uh
[42:04] county had to make some I believe some
major cuts and they pushed off some
[42:09] projects that we uh East Spencer our
neighbors across across the way they did
[42:14] a a huge increase last year so that they
didn't have to this year I don't even
[42:21] remember it was
20 cent increase roughly that's huge but
[42:28] they did that for some of the same
reasons we did so that they can have a
[42:32] full-time fire staff just we do. Um, and
so we, you know, we we've tried to to
[42:38] balance that out, not do as big a one
last year. But all that to say, trying
[42:43] to compare us to other communities, it's
a little tough. It's a little jaded.
[42:47] It's a little cloudy with how that
works. I think, and I've mentioned this
[42:51] before, what we need to look at is what
is the return on investment that we're
[42:55] providing to our taxpayers. And I know
they want to see better roads. They want
[43:00] to see better sidewalks and those sorts
of things. What I also want folks to
[43:04] understand is that money, it could come
from your tax dollars. Um, and I guess
[43:11] in a way it does at the state level, but
the reality is the money for roads and
[43:16] sidewalk repairs that comes from the
state. And the state gives us the same
[43:20] amount of money that they gave us over a
decade ago. And so what do you think's
[43:24] happened? Material costs have gone up.
Labor costs have gone up. So we are able
[43:29] to do much less when it comes to road
repairs, road repaving, sidewalks, that
[43:34] sort of thing than we were able to do a
decade ago. And so if you want to see
[43:39] that, I'll I'll I'll walk alongside you,
Raleigh. I'll write letters as well, but
[43:44] we need to advocate for more funding
through our power bill. That's where the
[43:48] money for the road is happen. Um, but in
the absence of that, what we as a town
[43:54] are doing is we said, "All right, we're
gonna we have to package these
[43:58] resurfacing." So, you'll see resurfacing
every two years roughly as opposed to
[44:03] every year like we used to be able to
do. Um, because we want to do as much
[44:07] paving as we can at one time because you
get a better price from our contractors.
[44:11] What we talk about with public works is
in those off years rather than not doing
[44:17] anything, we're going to invest some
money into things like pothole repair,
[44:22] uh, cold sealing of cracks and things
like that. It's abandoning, but at least
[44:29] it's something to keep the roads
passible until we can
[44:32] get. So, it's not like we're just
sitting back and we're not doing
[44:36] anything. We're trying to move the
needle forward while still being able to
[44:40] make sure
that
[44:43] so
it's it's a task. I think that's the
[44:47] message.
Uh Mr. Mayor, board and citizens, uh I
[44:53] just have a couple of things that I want
to add to uh these discussions tonight.
[44:58] First of all, thanks to all of you for
being here and a big special thank you
[45:02] to our fire and policemen for being
here. I'm glad all of you showed up. I'm
[45:08] a p a retired public employee. I know
what it's like when salaries get frozen
[45:15] and raises were taken back that you were
expecting, especially when you're
[45:20] raising a family. I don't like it. When
there's been a promise made and a
[45:25] commitment made, I think we need to do
as much as we can to honor it and keep
[45:31] it. Um, especially for our employees. We
probably have, and I'm going out on a
[45:37] limb here, but I think I'm probably
right. We probably have the best staff
[45:42] in Rowan County. I'm not sure it's not
the best staff in the whole state. We
[45:48] have turned Sensor around. And it's not
been just us that's done it, and it's
[45:53] not just been our board that's done it.
The groundwork was being laid before we
[45:57] got on here. It's been a cumulative
process. But throughout all of this,
[46:02] I've lived here in Spencer my whole
life. And I know taxes. I don't like
[46:09] paying high taxes either. None of us do.
I don't think our taxes are high
[46:15] compared to what we get. I've talked to
people from all over the state because I
[46:20] have a lot of uh former students and
friends that live in places. They can't
[46:24] believe the services we provide. My
sister lives in Asheville and she pays a
[46:30] whopping big amount of taxes. They still
have to have their garbage carried off
[46:36] and paid for it. They have to pay to
have all their yard debris carried off.
[46:41] She just cannot believe when she comes
here and sees that our town picks up
[46:47] bulk items
uh and does our garbage weekly and all
[46:53] of the brush and debris. that that's
something that most communities don't
[46:57] get without any cost. Uh and I remember
even in Spencer at one time we had to
[47:03] pay to get any bulk items u taken off
and you had to come up here and pay them
[47:10] something then they come and look at it
and then they going to call you and tell
[47:14] you how much more you have to pay. That
was not fun. So, we've got a good system
[47:19] right here. And but the thing that
really
[47:22] uh makes me proud, I'm on news sources
all the times and um I'm all the time
[47:29] getting updates and news breakak and
smart news and everything. And one time
[47:34] I saw an article that showed up. It said
fastest growing and wisest investment in
[47:41] municipalities. Guess who was number one
in the whole state? Us.
[47:47] And just think about your property and
how it has grown in value. Now it's it's
[47:52] happened everywhere, but ours has really
really increased. So you all are a
[47:59] little bit wealthier there if you are a
property owner. So that's a good thing.
[48:04] But I remember when you couldn't sell a
honeymoon. I remember when I would go to
[48:10] gatherings and there were people from
other areas in this uh county and they
[48:16] talked down to us and would dare to talk
about Spencer and Northland schools to
[48:21] me. Well, that was a mistake and usually
I had to lose. Usually I got drugged out
[48:26] by coach secret before I said anymore.
But you know, we don't have to defend
[48:32] Spencer anymore. And for those of you
that have lived here a long time now, we
[48:39] have people pray for us and want to know
how we did it. Now, I still know that
[48:44] we're responsible to our citizens, but
we are also responsible to our employees
[48:49] and to our program and to this wonderful
park system that we have.
[48:56] So, I still hadn't 100% made up my mind,
but I know which way I'm leaning. And I
[49:02] think most of us probably
know and uh you know, I look at this
[49:09] and it's not when you do like Pat did
and average it out over a year, that's
[49:16] less than a a bag of candy you buy at a
store. I mean, and it I think it added
[49:23] like $7 or something a month to a
$250,000 house in taxes. That's less
[49:30] than a pack of cigarettes. I got to
think about stuff like that as like I
[49:34] said, I'm I'm looking at it also from
the public employee perspective because
[49:39] if you're working for the public, you
don't get
[49:44] u rewarded often for doing a good job.
you just get more work to do on the same
[49:50] salary. And basically, that's how it
works. So, I'm looking at it from that,
[49:55] too. And I want to keep every employee
we
[49:58] have. I don't want them being siphoned
off by Davidson County, Meth
[50:07] County, Paul, or any other place. We've
got we're competitive now. And I want to
[50:13] say because we got top-notch people. And
I'm not saying we haven't always had
[50:18] topnotch people, but they've been
stable. We're not losing as many as we
[50:24] used to do. When we first came on here,
how many vacancies did we have in that
[50:29] police department?
A lot. And basically a volunteer fire
[50:35] department. And you don't attract
industry and
[50:40] um developers and everything by having a
volunteer fire department. You got to be
[50:46] able to offer the protection. And I feel
safe in these
[50:51] things. I don't ever worry about being
attacked. And I'm old now and I'm an
[50:58] easy mark, but I don't ever worry about
I'm not saying it won't happen, but I
[51:02] don't worry about it. I mean, our
streets are clean. They may not be They
[51:07] might need to have some holes that need
to be patched up, but we've got these
[51:11] good people walking around, and I've
never felt
[51:15] intimidated. Um, you know, but we could
have gone the other
[51:19] way. So, I I'm leaning towards
supporting this and because I know
[51:25] what's coming in two years and I think
we'll be able to stop it or even
[51:31] decrease it.
remember who said you never decrease
[51:36] your taxes. Yeah, that's right.
[51:42] First of all, everybody up on this board
is optimist. We got into this thing
[51:48] being optimistic about Spencer's future.
Like Petty and the rest of talking about
[51:54] at one time we couldn't sell a house.
I'd love to got out of Spencer at that
[51:58] time, but I couldn't because I couldn't
get true value.
[52:02] But we've done and we say we, I thought
about everybody in this group, they've
[52:06] done an outstanding group as far as
uh if you look at our budget, I've
[52:13] studied it. Our biggest source is our
employees, our police department, fire
[52:18] department, maintenance department, and
our staff. And that's what makes
[52:23] it. If we didn't have good employees,
everybody would be upset.
[52:30] But at the same time, I'm looking at it
as an open mind like some of these
[52:34] people expressed. I've seen a lot of
communities where the tax rate has grown
[52:40] so far and so much that they can't
afford
[52:44] living and I'm concerned.
[52:49] There's not everybody, you know, Spencer
is kind of a depressed town where, you
[52:53] know, at one time we could you could
afford living here and getting by, but
[52:59] uh everything has improved and that's
cost everything everybody cost things
[53:07] for everybody else. So, I am concerned
about it. As the mayor says, we've taken
[53:13] gambles in the future and look at what
we've got.
[53:19] It's amazing. If you told me eight years
ago we'd have all this, I'd be a new
[53:25] fire truck, new garbage truck, new
beautiful town hall that we're in right
[53:30] now. I wouldn't believe it. I think it's
amazing. We do have to take
[53:35] G, but I'm questioning myself for the
maybe we need to take a pause maybe this
[53:42] year and wait and see what's happen. But
this time, I'm just expressing my
[53:48] opening that I might consider holding
back on the expenses of this year. But
[53:54] at the same time, that's why I'm here.
I'm listening to every folks
[53:59] here. But the main thing, like I said,
what makes a town is our employee, and I
[54:05] appreciate what y'all do. Thank you. If
I may say, Mr. mayor, board, staff, and
[54:12] most of all the residents of the
town. Um, and being a resident here,
[54:18] Spencer for 20 some odd
years, we are all affected by this. It's
[54:24] almost like it's a double-edged sword.
We need to make sure that we keep these
[54:30] services that we have with the quality
of staff that we have because
[54:37] ultimately our number one priority is
the residents is the town. But in order
[54:42] for the town to continue to flourish and
hearing what my constituents up here
[54:48] were saying, I I can look back in the
past and of course I I probably wouldn't
[54:53] have thought that we would be where
we're at today 101 15 years ago in
[54:58] reference to the town hall, the
different amenities that have taken
[55:02] place here in town. And if I'm wrong,
Mr. Mayor, some of the the roads and I
[55:06] hear the concerns of the residents. Some
of the roads, the responsibility of that
[55:11] is not just on the town of Spencer, it's
also on the Department of
[55:15] Transportation. And I know we have we
have addressed some of those. There is
[55:20] still some work that needs to be done.
And I mean, there always is going to
[55:24] have to be work to be done in order for
the town to continue to flourish and not
[55:27] die.
So, it's not an it's not an easy
[55:31] decision that has to be made because it
affects us as well.
[55:41] Mr. Cring, any clarifying remarks or
anything like that at this point?
[55:49] that what what I'm happy to share based
on I guess some of the questions from
[55:54] last time and and this is published
within the agenda packet. There were
[55:59] questions on a few different items. Uh
and
[56:04] so I'll just roughly uh give a few
highlights from that. But uh again there
[56:12] was the questions around uh our ability
to implement the pay study. Um, first of
[56:19] all, uh, there there I have a chart
published in there that kind of shows a
[56:25] few different things and it shows it by
department and it and it shows it uh and
[56:30] and if you're on the packet,
it's there's a public hearing notice
[56:36] published in the packet and then the
next page after that uh is where this uh
[56:41] information
is. Uh so currently we for the for the
[56:46] recommended budget there is a proposal
of a flat uh increase for for all
[56:51] full-time staff of $1,200 next year
which is um an amount that's uh
[56:59] roughly kind of mid-range on our DI
program. And so for some that represents
[57:05] a little less than a typical year and
some that represents a little more and
[57:10] some it represents about about what
average but it's a flat rate for
[57:14] everybody no matter what your current
salary is. And of course that is a a
[57:19] best benefit to uh as a percentage to
those who
[57:24] are on
the first few stages of our of our pay
[57:29] scale.
um that the cost of that is about
[57:35] $49,000. And of course, every time I say
a cost of a salary increase, you can add
[57:41] 30% to it for the other benefits as
well. So that that is currently funded
[57:46] in the recommended budget for a total
cost of about 63 to $64,000.
[57:53] That's compared to if we were able to
implement the full market study that
[57:58] we've discussed several times. That
would have a price tag of about $200,000
[58:02] in salary changes. Add the 30% that's up
to
[58:06] 263. That that was pretty quickly not um
going to be able to be 100%
[58:14] implementation. We evaluated a number of
scenarios through through the budget
[58:19] process to figure out uh you know where
we might be able to land and we were
[58:25] working towards a you know some sort of
partial implementation whether that
[58:28] meant uh you know phasing it in in
various ways throughout the fiscal year.
[58:34] As an example, this chart shows an
incremental phase in that moves uh the
[58:39] increase
along uh at four increments through the
[58:43] fiscal year about every six or seven pay
cycles so that by March we've gotten
[58:47] folks up to where we want them to be.
That comes in at about 60% of the cost
[58:53] of the full study. Uh at about
124,000 125,000 again add the 30% that's
[59:00] up to 161. And again,
ultimately it it was not an option that
[59:06] we were able to recommend without
further changes to our
[59:11] revenues. And so where again where we
landed um was uh about for including the
[59:18] benefits
um 60 about
[59:22] $64,000. And so the next column just
shows as a comparison. It says
[59:29] additional needed to fund incremental.
It shows the additional cost if we were
[59:35] to
uh try to go from that flat one, 1200
[59:41] plan to the incremental plan. So that
for example is a
[59:47] $75,000 additional and again add the 30%
it comes into about
[59:52] 98,000. What I've done though is uh it's
shown as a whole but it's also shown uh
[59:59] by department. You can see all of these
scenarios by department. Um it's it's in
[1:00:05] there and published and and again it
shows because the 30% was being totaled
[1:00:15] along the bottom of that chart. It's
also totaled on there on the side. So uh
[1:00:20] you can understand either individually
or as a whole what that would look like.
[1:00:26] So, that's just one additional piece of
information and context uh in case
[1:00:30] that's helpful. Uh the active living
coordinator position that was funded in
[1:00:38] the current year budget uh but has not
yet been filled uh but we are in the
[1:00:44] process of doing so. Um but again that
there are not been anybody hired or any
[1:00:51] offers made. Um although we're close to
that point.
[1:00:57] Um that the cost of that position in
next year's budget is uh when you
[1:01:02] include all the benefits for that
position is about 63 and a half
[1:01:07] thousand. Um, another piece of
information that's published in in here
[1:01:13] based on the conversation from last time
was a conversation around board member
[1:01:18] stipens. Uh, so that that information is
published in there. That's a total cost
[1:01:22] for the current uh for the coming fiscal
year of about just under $25,000 for the
[1:01:28] whole year for all of all of the elected
officials.
[1:01:35] Um,
and so that's that's there for just
[1:01:40] forformational purposes. Of course, it's
elsewhere in the budget document, but
[1:01:43] this was just to try to consolidate.
Um, we also had a little conversation
[1:01:50] about our bulky waste program and and
kind of concern over whether it was an
[1:01:54] issue of something that was driving up
our costs or people taking advantage of
[1:01:59] it. And um the the analysis came out
that it's actually uh had has a cost
[1:02:08] from a tipping fee perspective. We were
able to isolate that the trucks on
[1:02:12] Thursdays that would be using that. And
the the the year's tipping fees for that
[1:02:19] program is about uh
$1,758 or about $146 a.
[1:02:27] And we also programmed in the the
the staff time
[1:02:33] involved. Of course, that's not an extra
cost. It's just a representative figure
[1:02:38] of the allocation of their their time.
But uh we have a crew of two that
[1:02:43] typically spends two to three hours once
a week on Thursdays collecting targeted
[1:02:48] items. They don't go up and down every
street looking for it because those
[1:02:51] items have already been identified
through the garbage collection process.
[1:02:55] Uh but we we estimate the the staff time
cost of that program to to be just under
[1:03:02] $4,000. Uh we did not identify fuel
expense as a significant cost. Although
[1:03:09] you know you are making a trip to the
landfill and back. Um but we we
[1:03:15] determined that that wasn't a cost that
really needed to factor into this uh
[1:03:20] analysis. But uh but when you add that
together, you're you're just under
[1:03:25] $6,000 uh for the year for the what we
do with bulky waste. Uh we we believe
[1:03:31] that the cost is that cost is less than
the of course the value of the benefit
[1:03:36] provided by keeping the community uh
appearance clean and providing the
[1:03:41] higher level of service. So folks aren't
having to figure out other ways to
[1:03:46] dispose of these items.
Um there was uh questions about our
[1:03:52] Rusty Home Senior Center partnership and
the the senior programs that
[1:03:57] have happened over many years but in
recent years done in partnership with
[1:04:02] Rusty Home Senior Center. Uh we
currently work with them to provide a
[1:04:07] minimum of two catered lunch events per
year including entertainment. Um and as
[1:04:13] available uh they also are uh working to
provide other activities whether they be
[1:04:19] fitness classes for seniors or
educational or other social or other
[1:04:23] types of
programs. In May we had our most recent
[1:04:28] event. There's usually one in May, one
December. There were 100 seniors signed
[1:04:32] up for that event. Uh and so that's what
they prepared for. Uh there they had
[1:04:38] about 75 or 80 people actually attend.
So unfortunately there were some folks
[1:04:44] that didn't come. Uh don't really have a
an answer as to why or but it's
[1:04:51] unfortunate but you know for what they
prepared for it was about $20 a person
[1:04:55] for a full meal with drinks and dessert
entertainment and door prizes for those
[1:05:00] in attendance. Um staff believes that
this is a good value for what's provided
[1:05:05] for those seniors for those interactions
a couple times a year for all they get.
[1:05:09] The Rusty Holmes team has a they've done
a great job of bringing their team out
[1:05:14] to make it uh smooth and enjoyable. This
is something again our history of
[1:05:19] volunteers making things happen in
Spencer. For many years this program
[1:05:23] happened with volunteers putting it
together. Um that's become more
[1:05:27] challenging in recent years and this was
a great opportunity to partner with with
[1:05:31] our local senior services nonprofit to
make that happen.
[1:05:36] And then uh the other information that I
provided is related to our uh our grant
[1:05:42] programs that go through our community
appearance commission and and historic
[1:05:46] preservation commission related to the
Salsbury Avenue corridor improvements
[1:05:51] and our residential historic
preservation program.
[1:05:56] Uh you can see over the last several
years how uh those programs have
[1:06:03] increased in the amount of funding that
has gone towards those. Historically
[1:06:08] each of the they were originally known
as residential and commercial facade
[1:06:12] grant programs. They had pots of $2,000
each and maximum matching grant awards
[1:06:18] of
$500. And in the fiscal year 22, that
[1:06:22] increased dramatically
uh by an increase in the town
[1:06:26] contributions towards those programs. We
we started contributing $10,000 for each
[1:06:32] rather than $2,000 and and increase the
match uh the maximum matched to to 2,000
[1:06:38] instead of
500. And we also in that first year had
[1:06:42] an infusion of additional grant funding
from Duke Energy of 25,000.
[1:06:48] So we went from one year having $4,000
to dole out $45,000 the next year. But
[1:06:55] then it kind of flattened after that.
The last few years it had been $20,000
[1:07:00] each year. Then in the current fiscal
year uh during the budget approval
[1:07:05] process last year that went from 20 to
16,000 taking it from 10 to 8 into the
[1:07:11] grant programs. Now, typically we
have at times struggled to to get uh
[1:07:18] enough applicants to uh be awarded all
of those grant funds. You can you can
[1:07:23] see the next column in there in any
given year. We you know are roughly
[1:07:29] awarding about half of the grant funds
that are available. And then, you know,
[1:07:35] we're roughly uh having those grant
those awarded grants uh go to completion
[1:07:42] on when somebody actually does the work
and turns in their receipts for
[1:07:45] reimbursement. It's been
about you know 60 to 70% of those
[1:07:52] awarded grants
have especially over the last few years
[1:07:57] have gotten to the completion. Uh so
that's that's just some information. Uh
[1:08:02] there was a there was a question about
that. You can kind of see how that
[1:08:05] program's worked over the last few
years. In the current in the recommended
[1:08:09] budget, uh the recommendation is to uh
for for next year at least to return
[1:08:14] that to the more modestsized uh pot of
2,000 for each of those programs with
[1:08:22] max award of
$500. And you can see
[1:08:28] that again historically
Well, a year in fiscal year 21, we
[1:08:34] awarded half of the awarded 4,000. Uh
2,000 was awarded and 2,000 was expended
[1:08:41] to reimbursement.
[1:08:45] Question question. Yeah. And I I think
we we talked briefly about this last
[1:08:48] time. M asked about the contract
services because that I mean that is a
[1:08:52] pretty significant amount. It's about 8%
of the budget. We But just for for those
[1:08:57] playing along here at home, what what is
that? Sure. So, it's a it's a variety of
[1:09:03] things depending on where uh within our
administrative budget. That's how our
[1:09:08] our planning
services our planning services that we
[1:09:14] provide are done via contract services.
So, that's that's one example within the
[1:09:19] administrative budget. Um we
also uh have uh elements like uh in our
[1:09:30] in our public safety departments uh and
even even in our administrative
[1:09:35] sometimes it it is referring to some of
the software that we're using
[1:09:41] uh some of those
platforms. Uh in public works, it's uh
[1:09:47] mulch grinding. In the library, uh it uh
we have some in contract services for
[1:09:54] some of the events when uh contracting
out of folks to help provide those
[1:10:00] activities. Uh in the proposed recommend
uh recreation budget, uh same thing,
[1:10:07] some some level of contracted services
for programming activities. Um but in
[1:10:14] um in general those are those are some
of the things that are covered in that
[1:10:20] those services
[1:10:24] uh to some I mean not greatly but to
some extent they do
[1:10:30] I guess are these figures that
[1:10:37] yes I mean what you see uh in the
recommended budget is Uh really there
[1:10:42] there's actually some things that that
we have reduced uh we have reduced our
[1:10:47] planning services hours in some cases to
try to create some savings. Engineering
[1:10:53] services was cut that as well. Yeah.
[1:11:01] Peter, can you uh address for u our
citizens why code enforcement has been
[1:11:07] moved to the police department or there
seems to be some confusion? Sure. So,
[1:11:12] for several years, code enforcement has
been a function provided through our
[1:11:16] police department. The recommended
budget includes uh an adjustment to uh
[1:11:23] move our code officer to a sworn law
enforcement position. Uh our code off
[1:11:28] our current code officer happens to to
be a sworn law enforcement officer and
[1:11:32] works with has a reserve status with our
police department.
[1:11:38] And the the idea is to provide some
flexibility. So, and it's also an
[1:11:44] ability to get a few more hours a week
of services. The code officers um on a
[1:11:51] 40hour a week schedule. Our sworn law
enforcement officers are 42 hours or a
[1:11:57] week or 84 hours every two weeks. That's
about 100 extra hours of services a year
[1:12:02] that could be provided. Uh but the the
key thing is uh is the flexibility that
[1:12:09] would be possible through that position
of being able to respond if needed while
[1:12:16] while on duty as a code officer and some
of those other capacities.
[1:12:23] Can I say one other thing? Yeah. For
information for our public and
[1:12:26] everything else. The proposal is two
cents and we all know this on the board
[1:12:32] but just information for every penny if
we're deducting
[1:12:39] 38,354 out of the so with that 2% we are
cutting little over
[1:12:47] 74,000. That's what we're trying to cut
if we wanted to get the budget back to
[1:12:52] the previous year. So that's just
information good information for you to
[1:12:56] know.
Can you talk through I mean you got the
[1:13:00] summary talk through
the kind of cumulative example cuts that
[1:13:07] were made. There's a question of, you
know, have you cut? The answer is yes,
[1:13:13] we have cut out of the proposed budget.
And so can you kind of walk through what
[1:13:17] some of those proposed cuts are?
Understand that. Sure. So, and again
[1:13:22] kind of going going through
um through by the budget unit or the
[1:13:27] department for the recommended budget,
the the current recommended amount for
[1:13:32] governing body um is about
$25,000. Um that that budget
[1:13:43] um includes uh again historically quite
a few of our u the grant programs we've
[1:13:51] talked about but they also include
things that we we've got to have like
[1:13:55] accounting services for our audit legal
services uh dues and subscriptions to
[1:14:01] entities like uh the lead municipalities
and central line of council of
[1:14:05] governments and the chamber and that
sort of thing. And they also include the
[1:14:09] fees that we pay to the Rowan County tax
collector.
[1:14:14] $35,000 of that budget is is is that.
So, and of course, every municipality in
[1:14:20] the county contracts with the county for
that service rather than hiring their
[1:14:24] own person to be a tax collector. Uh
that fee has increased over the last
[1:14:30] several years. We've been on a
five-year plan of getting the fee to be
[1:14:37] 1.5% of our revenue, tax revenue that's
collected. They we pay that back to them
[1:14:44] in this fee. Uh it's gone
up.15% each year for the last several
[1:14:50] years. So that amount that amount has
has gone up over the last several years.
[1:14:55] Mr. F, can I make a comment on that too?
And I know that looks like a big number
[1:15:00] and relative to our budget, it maybe is,
but for 35,000 less than a full-time
[1:15:05] equivalent position, we're getting a
whole department. I I know none of us
[1:15:08] like a tax man, so to say, but they do a
phenomenal job. And that's a that's a
[1:15:12] deal for the services they provide. So,
I mean that that's I know it's a big
[1:15:18] number, but I promise you if we try to
do that ourselves, it would be our
[1:15:21] entire budget. So I recently as part of
the mayor's association that I'm a part
[1:15:25] of, I recently was on an email chain
where different one mayor in the eastern
[1:15:30] part of the state was trying to find out
they were considering taking their house
[1:15:35] and so we started getting all these
numbers back and forth from folks and uh
[1:15:39] the 1.5% is a very reasonable rate. I
saw rates upwards of a lot of them were
[1:15:45] two two and a half%. I saw a couple that
were in the 5% which I thought was
[1:15:50] highly but uh Yeah, it's
so again about $200 to $5,000. We to get
[1:16:00] to the recommended budget identified
about $14,000 in cuts. Uh that included
[1:16:06] uh putting a pause on the mural program.
We have for several years had public art
[1:16:12] happening uh here primarily through uh
grants, but we have also budgeted some
[1:16:17] town funding to help with matches uh and
kind of get it started each year. But
[1:16:22] we've typically brought in grant funding
that exceeds uh the amount needed to
[1:16:28] actually do the work. But we've
typically funded as kind of our own
[1:16:33] start each year about
$5,000 uh $12,000 between both of the
[1:16:37] grant programs. We've been talking about
a reduction in the events uh line uh
[1:16:43] specifically about a $4,000 reduction in
what we're contributing towards
[1:16:49] Winterfest. Uh and part of that is due
to we're providing more now in terms of
[1:16:55] inind services with the with the park.
We're going to be providing uh
[1:17:00] facilities that will hopefully reduce
some of the costs on the organizers of
[1:17:06] of putting that event on and a reduction
in our available contingency of of
[1:17:12] $10,000. That amount really was I
considered it modest to begin with at
[1:17:17] about the last few years we've we've had
uh 15 or 20,000. right now what's
[1:17:25] recommended for next year at 5,000 in
contingency. So that's the what if in
[1:17:30] the budget. That's the what when
something pops up uh it's our ability to
[1:17:35] say okay here's an opportunity and we've
got this set aside that we can make use
[1:17:40] of. So the contingency for next year is
being recommended at $5,000 just in a
[1:17:45] effort to keep things as minimal as
possible. And um uh moving on to uh our
[1:17:53] administrative uh department,
uh we've identified
[1:17:58] $32,000 in in cuts to get to the
recommended amount
[1:18:03] uh ranging on
reducing reducing training and travel uh
[1:18:09] budgets, reducing uh funding to we
typically like to budget an amount uh
[1:18:15] for HVAC maintenance for this this
building has six units that if one of
[1:18:21] them goes out and we've already had to
replace one of them, uh because these
[1:18:24] these were existing units that were
upfitted, uh put back into service as
[1:18:30] part of the project, uh one of those
goes out, it's about $20,000 to replace
[1:18:35] it. And so rather than having to
scramble, we were fortunate the last few
[1:18:40] years that we kind of budgeted that
amount just in case it was if needed, it
[1:18:45] was there. Uh but in the you know that's
an example looking forward to this
[1:18:49] budget. You know what uh we're going to
we're not going to budget that much.
[1:18:53] We're going to maybe uh we reduce that
amount by about
[1:18:57] $10,000. Um and if something's needed,
we'll we'll have to figure it out when
[1:19:02] the time comes.
Um, we also uh and it's not reflected uh
[1:19:09] as a cut because of the way our budget
software works, but uh we were hoping to
[1:19:13] fund a part-time uh position to continue
that public art program that I talked
[1:19:19] about. Uh we're not able to recommend
that at this time. That's worth about
[1:19:23] 115,000.
um our police department uh about
[1:19:29] $24,000 in uh in cuts for again things
like travel and training and uh but also
[1:19:36] u reducing the amount we have on uh uh
some of our contract services like
[1:19:47] uh including the uh having some funding
available if we need to do a code
[1:19:52] enforcement abatement reducing that
amount uh reding amount of tasers that
[1:19:58] uh we were planning to
replace and but the most significant
[1:20:04] area for police was a frozen position uh
with benefits that's worth almost
[1:20:11] $60,000. Uh two replacement vehicles uh
that's about $105,000 that we're just
[1:20:17] going to have to hold off right now. in
the fire department. There was about
[1:20:24] $65,000 reduction in in some uniform
items and some uh PPE bunker gear
[1:20:32] replacements. Um there were some
building maintenance needs at the fire
[1:20:36] station we would have liked to have been
able to do. We're going to have to hold
[1:20:40] off on those. We reduced that amount. Um
and then some maintenance on our reserve
[1:20:45] backup engine.
Um there was an amount produced there,
[1:20:50] but again the total was about
$65,000. And then
[1:20:57] um in in our um in our public works
department, there was a mower uh
[1:21:03] replacement that we're going to hold off
on for a year that's worth about
[1:21:08] 14,000. Um, and then we there was a
budget request related to some
[1:21:14] maintenance on on our uh garbage truck,
our older garbage truck, uh, that we we
[1:21:20] had cut that one out, but we were able
to fund it um, in with savings in the
[1:21:26] current year budget. And there are a few
other items that uh, aren't necessarily
[1:21:31] on this list. We've actually worked
through some of them in the last few
[1:21:34] meetings where we've identified some
opportunities in the current year to
[1:21:37] take care of a few things and we were
able to um the departments had several
[1:21:43] items that they didn't even request and
so they're not showing up as a as a cut.
[1:21:49] But those are some of the examples.
What was the I know the number so they
[1:21:55] know the number. I know that from March
when we started planning this to the
[1:21:58] number you told us last month that we
had we had to work down from what's the
[1:22:02] difference? Well, it it we were looking
at about a million dollar gap that we
[1:22:06] started with in just and that was just
raw. Those are raw numbers. It was kind
[1:22:11] of the pre-ere request
um kind of stage that before everything
[1:22:17] was finalized of you know just going on
available revenues keeping everything
[1:22:21] the same and looking at you know all the
possibilities of requests.
[1:22:27] Um the other thing I think need to point
out right brought this up right is the
[1:22:32] ARPA funding we don't have that so you
know as far as these cuts you're going
[1:22:38] to see cutting some things but there
were conditions I guess over the past
[1:22:42] couple years with with that staff who've
done things like that. I think the thing
[1:22:47] that we need to keep in mind what are
increases that are proposed in the
[1:22:52] budget maybe offsetting some of
this the increase uh proposed two cent
[1:23:00] increase. One of the big things and I
think I had kind of forgotten about this
[1:23:04] and make sure our board and our citizens
remember this. Uh there is still uh
[1:23:09] additional
basically this coming year additional
[1:23:13] fire staff for the entire year because I
believe if I'm correct we budgeted
[1:23:18] basically for three positions for a
whole year and three positions for a
[1:23:22] half year. Is that right? Uh that was
the that that transition happened in the
[1:23:27] current Yeah. So we had we had fully
funded position in the current year
[1:23:32] we're in for fire. Uh the one of the big
changes though with fire budget is the
[1:23:37] new debt service for the new the new
fire truck um is is certainly
[1:23:43] um you know that that was one item
there. Um
[1:23:50] yeah. So Mr. Mayor, if I may just make a
a comment of the board and Mr. Franis
[1:23:56] and staff, as I said last week, I think
we all said this last time we were here.
[1:24:00] We appreciate what you've done. you guys
have have moved the mountain in six
[1:24:03] weeks. Um that was a big difference six
weeks ago. You guys have have got us
[1:24:07] down to we do some fine tweaking. So So
well done.
[1:24:11] Um you know regardless of how you slice
it, we're asking someone on faith to
[1:24:18] take a to take a haircut, right? To
tighten the budgets. I you know I I said
[1:24:23] it last time we were here. Mr. Mayor, I
know you were you were not here, but
[1:24:25] just for the for your benefit. I I mean
I don't want to put pressure on anyone
[1:24:29] up here, but I know how I feel. We need
to tighten, you know, and our stipens
[1:24:33] not you heard m Mr. Frenzy say it. The
whole siphon for all of us total is
[1:24:37] 25,000 for the year. That that's it. Um
but as a good faith, I think we we've
[1:24:43] got a titan what we get. If we're asking
everyone else to titan, we've got to
[1:24:46] tighten. Um and I I mean I'm you know,
we can take that as low as y'all want to
[1:24:50] go. So I don't want to put any pressure
on anyone, but I mean if that's a to me
[1:24:54] that's leadership in good faith and and
we can't sit up here in good faith and
[1:24:57] ask these folks don't on to do
regardless of how we all vote. I mean
[1:25:03] someone's taking a haircut, right? And
they're are are not getting maybe what
[1:25:07] they'd hope they're going to get. We
we've got to do the same. So I've
[1:25:10] already donated mine. No. And you have.
Yeah. And you have the next three years.
[1:25:15] and you have and I you know that was
that was the documentation from from
[1:25:19] Miss Py today and we didn't know that so
we appreciate that. Um, so you know, you
[1:25:24] know, in my thought is is that at least
a third and that that's 78,000 bucks I
[1:25:30] think by my math over a year and I mean
and we can go no lower if you want to,
[1:25:35] but I don't want to put anyone on. I
agree with what you're saying because um
[1:25:42] well number one I I didn't even know
there was a sip when I ran. So that was
[1:25:47] a pleasant surprise and uh you're
getting a good bargain for your money.
[1:25:52] But I agree if everybody else is taking
a hit I want to take one
[1:25:57] too and we can talk about how much it
uh how much work on that.
[1:26:06] Yeah. I have one one other question uh
because Miss Gray asked about u the
[1:26:12] resource officer the grease um those
they won't be dedicated resource
[1:26:18] officers now is that so we're really
there's not a change in function uh
[1:26:24] right now our our compensation and
classification plan shows uh rather it
[1:26:31] shows a separate classification for
school resource officers. What we're
[1:26:34] recommending doing is not keeping that
as a separate
[1:26:39] classification. It's just an assignment.
Same thing for detective. It's not a
[1:26:43] separate classification. It's an
assignment. So then our rank structure
[1:26:47] of police officer, corporal, sergeant,
etc. functions as the classification.
[1:26:53] And whether you're assigned a patrol or
investigations or school resource
[1:26:57] officer, that that's what that's about.
So it's not uh we still are we still
[1:27:02] have three school resource officers
funded in the budget. Those are grant
[1:27:06] funded. Two of them are are funded at
100% including salary benefits, fuel,
[1:27:12] training, etc. Uh and uh one of them is
at about 85 or 86%. Uh and just just so
[1:27:20] folks understand that represents the the
funding that we get from Brilliance
[1:27:25] Albury schools and actually they get
other grant funding that they pass on to
[1:27:29] us and others. Uh that revenue for the
school resource officers uh is
[1:27:35] programmed in at $252,000.
I was that was my next question is
[1:27:41] because if we made any changes to their
their uh duty would lose some of the
[1:27:46] revenue from the school. We we certainly
value what our school resource officers
[1:27:51] do and and our ability to be in the
schools and we've got we've got them
[1:27:56] here today and u but no so there's no
change to the function. It's
[1:28:02] simply adjusting it the comp and class
structure to follow the rank structure.
[1:28:08] Thank you.
[1:28:13] Any other questions?
[1:28:17] Obviously, we'll have our work cut out
for us uh on Tuesday. We appreciate all
[1:28:22] the input. Thank you citizens who came
out, staff in here. Thank you for all
[1:28:26] the time that's gone into budgeting this
uh this cycle. And and I what I I guess
[1:28:33] what I'll say or ask and it sounds like
maybe we don't we are not quite there.
[1:28:37] We can either come back Tuesday
with an adjusted budget
[1:28:44] ordinance. Uh we of course there's
already a recommended budget ordinance.
[1:28:50] Uh if so the question is do you feel
like you want to consider an ordinance
[1:28:55] on Tuesday?
um whether it's as recommended or with
[1:29:00] requested changes that we can bring back
or is Tuesday going to be more of
[1:29:06] another workshop opportunity and then we
would need to have another meeting you
[1:29:10] know to consider voting on a budget
ordinance and that's kind of where we
[1:29:14] are in the process
[1:29:20] I think we need to think about some of
these things and you guys um do another,
[1:29:27] you know, run down of where we're headed
and then I don't know if we'll be ready
[1:29:33] to vote on Tuesday.
Is it possible by Tuesday if you have
[1:29:40] the current proposal as you have and
then a potential secondary ordinance
[1:29:46] that could also be considered that show
what it would look like at a 0%
[1:29:56] Well, it could, but we we would need
some direction on, you know,
[1:30:02] how to achieve that. That's right.
That's right. Which I
[1:30:06] think we say 70,000 that we talking
$76,78. Yeah, if we cut the recreation
[1:30:15] person, which is
[1:30:19] $63,547, that would mean we may still
need to reduce the budget $13,161.
[1:30:28] I'm not in favor of cutting that
position. I think we have to have it.
[1:30:32] We've invested too much money into the
parks and the things that we have here.
[1:30:37] One of the things that you said, Mr.
Miller, is that you'd like to see more
[1:30:40] people use our parks in the
If we had somebody who was working with
[1:30:45] those, we might have an opportunity to
have more.
[1:30:49] We've also heard, you know, the need for
youth
[1:30:53] program and that was an extent of the
position as well to help with that. I I
[1:30:59] hear you. I'm concerned that if you
don't
[1:31:03] So, if we don't cut the position, is
there any way that we can revisit the
[1:31:07] salary amount for that
[1:31:10] position? I mean I think you're
splitting that
[1:31:15] right question is how what can you cut
to make a meaningful enough but that's
[1:31:21] not going to
[1:31:23] be do I know that puts you all in a
tight spot in terms of the folks who are
[1:31:30] waiting whatever that means I don't I
don't we we know nothing about right I
[1:31:36] we don't so I think I mean you should
give an update where you are like I
[1:31:40] think you're you're to the point you're
ready to send an offer, but you pause.
[1:31:44] So, I'm happy that I could share in a
way, but uh yes, so we we've gotten the
[1:31:50] process through multiple rounds of
interviews to we were at the stage of of
[1:31:56] being prepared to make an offer. um we
have uh let the folks involved in the
[1:32:02] process know what's happening with this
uh and the budget discussions and that
[1:32:07] we need more time uh
potentially through next Tuesday's
[1:32:12] meeting to kind of
have a determination of whether we're
[1:32:17] going to be able to move forward. So
that's kind of where they are where we
[1:32:20] are with that process. But you feel
really good about the candidates.
[1:32:25] We we had an outstanding candidate pool.
Um and we've enjoyed interacting with
[1:32:30] candidates and I think Spencer would be
served well by any number of the folks
[1:32:36] who are interested in working in our
organization in this capacity.
[1:32:41] Mr. Mayor, if I may just make a comment
on that and I this is I guess from my
[1:32:46] perspective a splitting of the baby as
it were. I I think as a matter and I you
[1:32:52] probably know where I'm going to come
down on this as a matter of good
[1:32:56] faith. I think we owe them an answer as
quick as possible. All right. I mean
[1:33:01] because they're they no doubt have jobs
or other opportunities, right? I mean I
[1:33:05] think we need to we need to resolve it
because that's the that's the elephant
[1:33:08] in the room with regard to making this
budget or not in my view. I mean two
[1:33:12] cent leave it whatever it is that's
where it's at. my perspective on that,
[1:33:17] knowing nothing about the candidates,
wanting those programs, knowing and and
[1:33:21] when we did the community walk back in
November, we got several pointed
[1:33:24] questions. You have these wonderful
facilities. Why is no one using them?
[1:33:27] Right? And and and those are absolutely
valid.
[1:33:31] But from my perspective
today, for the next 12 months or or you
[1:33:36] know, the next six months or whatever
whatever we're looking at what the
[1:33:39] budget's going to be for the next
foreseeable
[1:33:42] future, we're asking these folks out
here to either a open up their wallets
[1:33:48] and pay more taxes and or we're asking
the folks in uniform out here to get a
[1:33:53] little bit less than they they thought
they're going to get. But we're adding
[1:33:56] this position and we I know we didn't
have the other the the mural position.
[1:34:01] She's been with us for a long time,
right? And and we're not going to be
[1:34:03] able to do that right now, at least as
as it was. I I just think it's it's a
[1:34:08] matter of who we have and who we know
versus a hypothetical, and I'm just
[1:34:13] running the cost benefit for me. The
benefit that that position may bring or
[1:34:18] probably will bring may well and I'd say
probably will be offset by the detriment
[1:34:23] of some of these nice folks. may get
offers elsewhere and they may go
[1:34:26] elsewhere and all the work that we've
done and all the work that Mr. Francis
[1:34:29] has done and all the work that our
chiefs have done to get these
[1:34:32] organizations where they need to be may
begin to be undone and and I I'm I'm
[1:34:38] really worried about I really am I'm
really worried about that. Um, and my
[1:34:43] thought is as much as I want that
position, and I absolutely agree with
[1:34:46] you. I I think there's there's always a
risk. Anytime you back up from doing
[1:34:49] something, there's a risk that just
doesn't get done, right? We see that all
[1:34:51] the time. But from my perspective is
that I'm really worried about the
[1:34:56] negative impact will offset, surpass, or
exceed the the benefit, and then it
[1:35:03] becomes a detriment, right? And so I I
just in my heart of hearts I believe
[1:35:08] really honestly not even related to
whether we raise the tax rate or not.
[1:35:13] We're still asking these folks to to
forestall that income benefit that they
[1:35:18] deserve. And if we're going to do that,
I think we have to follow it up with
[1:35:21] with not moving forward with something
else that we really want to do. It's
[1:35:24] that's a big chunk of of what we're
asking the community to to invest in. So
[1:35:29] I just in my heart of heart I believe we
just can't move forward that right now.
[1:35:33] and and maybe, you know, I know we we
had a similar conversation last year
[1:35:36] this time. We said, "Well, we'll do it
in January with with getting everything
[1:35:40] done and getting it posted. We're now
back around a full year." And I I
[1:35:44] understand we may that may happen again.
I I get that. Maybe not. Hopefully not.
[1:35:48] But but as it sits right now, I I just I
I really believe we just we just can't
[1:35:54] take that risk that doing a good thing
actually creates a a back and bad thing,
[1:36:00] right?
Um, and and I do believe those folks
[1:36:04] need that answer. They deserve that
whether we can do this or not. Um, and
[1:36:09] obviously I'm I'm one and if if you all
feel differently, let's talk it out and
[1:36:14] and we'll accept it. But I'm just I mean
and we will, right? I mean, you know,
[1:36:20] because ultimately we do need that
position, but but these folks also need
[1:36:24] what they deserve and we're not going to
be able to give it to them fully. And I
[1:36:29] think that that has to some some
balance, right? That's just my fault. I
[1:36:35] hear you and I think you're exactly
right. Except for the fact we're in a
[1:36:41] position where like it's all about
compromise. It's all about figuring out
[1:36:46] here's my concern, right? As we said for
several years, we need to do this. We've
[1:36:52] added facilities
using OPM other people's money, not our
[1:36:56] tax taxpayers money. um they've gotten a
whole lot of free infrastructure through
[1:37:03] other people's money. But now there is a
time we've got to as a community and a
[1:37:08] taxpayer step up and
actually fund what's going to help
[1:37:12] activate those spaces because to
me people want to see a return on their
[1:37:18] investment, right? That's one of the
clearest ways they're going to see
[1:37:22] return on their investment where they
can come and participate in a concert, a
[1:37:26] free concert at the at the park when
they can walk and stand back forest and
[1:37:31] have somebody that has done program when
they can take their kids to activities
[1:37:36] and things like that. And those are
things right now that by and large
[1:37:40] there's not a lot of that happen. Um and
so to
[1:37:45] me I think they get more bang for their
buck with that type of position than
[1:37:52] maybe in some other area. It's more
visible. Maybe they're not more but it's
[1:37:55] more visible. It's more tangible. that
they can can experience and touch and
[1:38:02] realize they're getting something
for. Um, but I hear you right because
[1:38:08] I'm totally with you on making sure
we're taking care of all of our staff.
[1:38:12] Um, and we've frozen some positions in
some places.
[1:38:19] Um, I've got a big problem though
continuing to kick the hand down early.
[1:38:24] That's uh that's where we lose momentum.
That's where we backslide and that
[1:38:29] backsliding is your only concern. Well,
you got that top-notch recreation
[1:38:34] committee ready to go, right? And I
mean, we've got a super committee. A
[1:38:41] number of our grants have been based on
the fact that, you know, we have we we
[1:38:45] will have advisory people, we will have
program. to you know the points that
[1:38:51] we've gotten through some of those
grants and then contingent on some of
[1:38:55] the projects that we plan to offer.
Okay. I think everybody here agrees and
[1:39:01] might think that I'm against this
recreation purp. No, I mean we've heard
[1:39:05] like heard I think everybody is. All
right. So the next question is okay how
[1:39:12] we going to make up for
76,000? That's the question. It's not.
[1:39:18] Well, all right. So, I think the bigger
question is we know how we're going to
[1:39:22] make up 76,000. Well, I mean, yes and
no. Okay.
[1:39:26] Right. I think the bigger question here,
and this is something that ultimately
[1:39:30] the board is going to have to vote on. I
don't have a vote on it, so it's going
[1:39:34] to be up to y'all to decide is
is you'll be the tiebreaker. Are you
[1:39:41] gonna vote on a twocent increase? you
going to vote yes for that or are you
[1:39:46] going to say no, we want it to remain a
flat tax rate? I mean and I think that's
[1:39:51] what it's going to come down to, right?
So I think that's what you have to to
[1:39:55] know kind of and I think we know where
generally folks stand on stuff. And so
[1:40:00] the question that Peter wants to know is
are you prepared as a board to go into
[1:40:04] Tuesday to have that vote? You don't
have to be unanimous on right don't.
[1:40:11] It's okay. I know we want to all be
unanimous on it, but we've sat up here
[1:40:15] and we've talked through this and it's
we we're doing the work that needs to be
[1:40:19] done, the discussion that needs to be
done, but ultimately it's going to have
[1:40:22] to come down for a vote at some point. I
can't agree with that, but it's just
[1:40:26] like Peter said, he's already put this
person off one
[1:40:29] week. Definitely think we got to give
this person an answer this coming week.
[1:40:35] Agree. If we don't, we don't look very
good.
[1:40:40] And Peter, it's a reflection on Peter,
unfortunately, because Peter's one of
[1:40:45] these people. So, I think we owe
Peter uh an answer Tuesday night. I
[1:40:51] agree. Yeah, I do too. Thinking about
it, I think we'll be ready.
[1:41:02] So, the question is, would you be
prepared to vote on an ordinance before
[1:41:05] you Tuesday night? Either yes or no.
[1:41:11] So what you read
that might change? It's pretty long.
[1:41:23] So I I think I would be if if it's an
eitheror because if you if you reduce
[1:41:30] the the position that we've been talking
about, if you don't
[1:41:35] hurt, she can't hurt. Um, if you reduce
the the a the CAC and HBC 30,000 each,
[1:41:44] if you
cut the Rusty homes in half, and if you
[1:41:50] if we're addressing us, which I think is
6 or 7,000, that's $78,000. And my
[1:41:54] math's rough, but I guess that's pretty
close. And I think you said 383* 2 is 68
[1:42:00] is 76.
[1:42:07] So the way this would go I think is if
you're voting on the ordinance before
[1:42:11] you if you vote yes then
it's the majority votes no then what
[1:42:18] comes out is you have to provide some
additional guidance to staff as to what
[1:42:22] you want them to do to get a
budget and I think what you talk through
[1:42:29] might be what repeat that again so
all right Well, yeah. If you cut the the
[1:42:35] the coordinator position where that's
what 635 or 636 635.
[1:42:41] Okay. If you cut the 23,000s from the
CAC, the CAC and the HBC, that's 6,000.
[1:42:47] If you cut Roughly Homes in half, that's
2,000. That's reflective of the data
[1:42:52] Peter had about the meals in the call.
And if you we're addressing that that
[1:42:57] roughly third or whatever that we talked
about earlier up here that's seven or
[1:43:02] thereabouts again again again rough math
that's
[1:43:06] 7800 more
[1:43:10] now just keep in mind I I know every one
of those things that you said has a
[1:43:15] direct and tangible benefit back to the
No right we all we
[1:43:23] all Again, I think one of the few things
we discussed, how does it relate to the
[1:43:29] majority of
[1:43:33] people segments of
people and that's I think that's where
[1:43:39] we're trying to please as many people as
possible. Well, everybody can take part
[1:43:44] for most folks in the recreational
programs. Ry homes, we talked about
[1:43:50] senior population that we have. We have
a large senior population who can take
[1:43:54] advantage of that and experience that.
We have a large historic preservation
[1:43:59] district, the largest continuous
district in the state, folks that could
[1:44:03] potentially take advantage of that. So
these are programs that by and large
[1:44:07] most of our communities can access. I
mean, you know, it's you look at you can
[1:44:12] see it both ways, right?
So, so, so here is what my what I would
[1:44:17] propose to you is board to you got the
staff recommendation. They put a whole
[1:44:23] lot of time and energy into providing a
recommended budget to I would recommend
[1:44:28] that you consider that and vote on that
on Tuesday. Be prepared to vote on that.
[1:44:33] Pending the result of that, it either
passes with the two cent increase and
[1:44:39] the fee increases that have been
proposed and the budget that's proposed
[1:44:43] or if it's voted down, then you go back
and provide guidance to staff. And it's
[1:44:50] likely that we will have to have a
follow-up meeting should it not pass to
[1:44:54] then time to present the new budget. But
at that time then if if it were not to
[1:45:01] pass on Tuesday, you would know what you
need to tell candidates for that new
[1:45:07] position. I mean I think that's the
reasonable thing to do.
[1:45:12] Thank you.
[1:45:17] It's a lot. Thank y'all very much. Board
will vote on it on Tuesday.
[1:45:24] The next thing we're going to move on
unless anybody has anything else budget
[1:45:28] related. All right, we're going to move
to an item on this year's budget. Um,
[1:45:34] and so Peter, I'll turn this over to
you. Um, it's for consideration of a
[1:45:40] budget
amendment related to replacement of a
[1:45:45] vehicle that was total.
Yes. And uh, and Chief File is here, of
[1:45:51] course. Uh we talked about this a little
bit a few weeks ago. We were working on
[1:45:55] finalizing the budget amendment for it
and it's ready for you tonight. But we
[1:45:59] had a a vehicle that was identified that
was involved in an accident earlier in
[1:46:03] the year and combined with uh insurance
proceeds and some available funding
[1:46:10] within the existing police budget. uh we
are able to if this budget amendment
[1:46:17] were approved tonight then Gile could
move forward with replacing that vehicle
[1:46:22] with a available
uh 2025 Ford Explorer for a cost of
[1:46:29] about 41,000
uh and then after the tax title and
[1:46:34] upfit the full cost is about $51,649.
[1:46:39] And so, as a reminder, we can let our
public know that this was the result. It
[1:46:44] was bad guys fault that this wreck
happened. Yes. Um and so, um it's
[1:46:50] unfortunate that it happened, but uh our
police officers were doing what
[1:46:55] they do, protecting people.
[1:47:01] Unfortunately, it's just the part that
[1:47:07] sustain. So, you have budget ordinance
[1:47:13] 24-2. Are there any questions on
[1:47:18] this? And if not, is there a motion to
adopt this?
[1:47:25] Motion by Is there a second? Second.
Second by Mr. Miller. Any further
[1:47:30] discussion? Hearing none. All in
favor? All opposed? Unless unanimous.
[1:47:37] Thank you all. We will now move to
review of our June 10th agenda for
[1:47:42] Tuesday night.
Um we'll uh do the call of order. Mayor
[1:47:47] Proin will be presiding on Tuesday
night. Do we have a volunteer for the
[1:47:54] invocation? Oh my. All right, Mr.
Mohammed. Thank you very much.
[1:47:59] Mayor Kim will do the pledge of
allegiance. Then we'll have additions
[1:48:02] and deletions and adoption of the
agenda. I see we have two additional
[1:48:06] items I believe Peter that you want
added to the agenda related to uh mural
[1:48:12] work. Is that correct? Yes. And Anna,
could you share the update on this one?
[1:48:18] Um I don't have a lot of information on
it. Um it was last minute um addition
[1:48:26] that Scott was hoping to add. If not
this month, then it could be pushed off
[1:48:32] next month. Um but she just asked that
we put it before you all um and she
[1:48:37] would be on um on Zoom on Tuesday.
[1:48:45] But the the idea is that we have two
concept art
[1:48:49] approvals for murals that do have
existing grant funding available for
[1:48:54] them.
All right, board. You want to receive an
[1:48:58] update on these items on Tuesday?
Okay. All right. uh board. I would
[1:49:05] suggest that we add
[1:49:10] that as
item I'd suggest we add that as item
[1:49:17] nine right after item eight which is
where we're adopting a budget ordinance
[1:49:22] for a Woodson Foundation uh grant
specific specific reporting approach.
[1:49:29] Does that work? Yeah. So these would be
items 9 and
[1:49:39] Okay. All right. We uh do have a few a
number of recognitions for end of year
[1:49:45] uh student awards from the town for both
North Carolina Middle School. Um and
[1:49:51] then also for student quarter for the
high school and the elementary school.
[1:49:56] Mayor Pim will be acknowledging those
students. We have other any other
[1:50:01] recognitions that will
be at Tuesday
[1:50:09] meeting. Okay. Hearing none, we'll have
public comment and then we'll have our
[1:50:14] consent agenda. Um right now the only
things on the consent agenda are
[1:50:18] approval of our minutes from May 8th um
in pre-aggenda on May 13th meeting and
[1:50:23] our May 22nd uh budget uh workshop.
So, as we go through tonight, if there's
[1:50:30] anything else you want to add to the
consent agenda, please let me know. Um,
[1:50:35] and then so then item eight will be uh
budget ordinance for the Margaret C.
[1:50:40] Woodson Foundation grant. Um, I suggest
leaving that as a regular agenda item.
[1:50:45] Since Sky will be with us, she can give
an update on that. Okay. Next would be
[1:50:49] to consider adopting the parks and
recreation advisory board bylaws. I
[1:50:53] assume that Mr. Mars will be there to
provide an update on that on Tuesday.
[1:50:58] Okay. And then we will consider adopting
ordinance 25-10 which is the upcoming
[1:51:04] fiscal year budget that we talked
about. All right. Um and then of course
[1:51:10] what we mentioned with the mural mural
concept
[1:51:14] considerations and then beyond that we
have our departmental reports. So it's a
[1:51:19] relatively light
Tuesday light light and lean significant
[1:51:27] indecisions. Do I understand correctly
that you're not going to leave here?
[1:51:31] Yeah, you do.
Okay. Did you plan that? No, I did not.
[1:51:37] No, I did not. So in your tie breaker
work has called me away. In your
[1:51:42] absence, who's the tie breaker? In my
absence, there's not a tiebreaker.
[1:51:48] Mayor pro everybody gets to vote and so
in the event that there is a tie you
[1:51:53] will have to reconvene and vote again
unless someone decides to well actually
[1:51:59] I was going to say abstain from being
service but that's not we have to
[1:52:10] unless you don't show up not
encouraging show up
[1:52:18] All right. Um, departmental reports,
town manager report, and then requesting
[1:52:23] comments from the
board.
[1:52:26] Um, anything
else?
[1:52:30] Okay. Um, so with that, is there a need
this evening to go into executive
[1:52:35] session for any reason?
I did have a comment to make about an
[1:52:42] event that will be happening before
before Tuesday. Tuesday. Okay. Yeah. All
[1:52:46] right.
Um and I hope you all got the message
[1:52:51] early this afternoon. Uh but the
Department of Transportation has invited
[1:52:55] public officials throughout the town to
uh participate or to attend a ceremony
[1:53:00] dedicating the Super Elizabeth do
highway. Um and that's tomorrow June 6
[1:53:08] that
u so if you got the information there is
[1:53:12] an RSVP on it. Um I have that RSVP to be
there anybody else who is able to come
[1:53:21] is certainly welcome
[1:53:25] and I know that the Salsbury delegation
had they had a group that was in Raleigh
[1:53:32] earlier yesterday. at the chamber. I
think I got to meet
[1:53:38] with that's exciting and welldeserved
honor to her. Another announcement
[1:53:46] that's going to happen before our
meeting uh this
[1:53:49] Monday 5 to 8 community
table community 10 table down here at
[1:53:55] Fleming from what I understand this year
this time it's going to be a fish fry.
[1:54:01] So, it should be great. And uh the price
is whatever you can pay. Now, the
[1:54:06] standard price is $15 and it's
collected. That's per person, but anyone
[1:54:11] is invited whether you can pay that,
more, or nothing. And there's no stigma.
[1:54:17] No one knows who's paid or anything, but
it's a wonderful uh thing that's
[1:54:22] bringing the community together. So,
please try to come and Pinocchio helps
[1:54:27] with it, too. They have put together
this. I think this is number three or
[1:54:32] four. They It's always the second Monday
of each
[1:54:36] month. So try to come.
All right. We reach the end of tonight's
[1:54:43] agenda. Is there a motion to adjourn? So
move. Motion by Mr. Mohammed. Is there a
[1:54:47] second? Second.
Second by Mr. Miller. All in
[1:54:52] favor? Right. All
opposed. All oppose. We stand. Thank you
[1:54:58] all very much.