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[laughter]

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So that's how long

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the music stops.

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You have to go to

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1985.

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I like your
drink.

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» That's pretty good stuff. Where'd you
get that?

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» Oh,
hometown.

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» He made it after he emptied out the
contents.

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» You see though, side is real. The real
thing, what it is on the can. The other

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side is spray hair glue.
Heavy duty. Uh, this will hold your hat

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on. It'll hold your wig on.
All of this

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» hold my three.
>> It stays cold, too.

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» Yes. Uh,
G.

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I call this meeting of the Springtown
CPAC

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to order at 6:30 p.m. Notice has been
posted in accordance with Texas

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government code. We do have quorum
present. We need a roll call. Are we

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recording this?
>> Uh we're streaming

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» streaming. We need a roll call.
>> No.

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» Okay. This isn't officially meeting by
the way.

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» Yeah. No, we're not subject to here. So,
>> okay.

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All right.
We have an invitation pledge, sir.

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» Okay.

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» Heavenly Father, we thank you for today.
We thank you for the people that are

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here today. And God, we pray that you be
with us in this meeting. I pray that you

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guide us, lead us, and help us to honor
and glorify your name in Jesus name.

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Amen.
>> Amen.

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» Join me. The pledge. I pledge algiance
to the flag. of the United States of

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America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God,

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indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all.

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» Thank you, sir.
>> Thank you.

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» All right.
At this time, Mr. Mayor, we're going to

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turn it over to Dalton and take it from
there.

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» All right. Well, we appreciate you all
coming out. Um, in front of you, we have

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a draft future land use. Um, I think
everybody should have one of these

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handouts. Um, I just wanted to kind of
do a brief rundown. So, really when

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you're thinking about a land use map,
um, this is a a map that's kind of like

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a vision. Um, this is not dictating
zoning. This is just in ideal

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circumstances. This is how we would like
to see the city grow. So, typically, you

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know, you have commercial along your
thorough affairs. Um, some of these maps

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have the flood plane on there to take
into consideration as well. Um, the

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light yellow is low density residential.
That's primarily what's out in your ETJ

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and you know in a lot of the
neighborhoods. Um also for reference um

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you know obviously uh some of these maps
have the ETJ on them. The city does have

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the authority to plan out into the ETJ
but you can't zone in the ETJ. And so

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this is again strictly going back to
just a vision a planning document um

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that then informs your zoning map. Um
when you're making zoning changes, we

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like to keep land use maps much more
broad. That way you have less um changes

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down the road. So like you know we have
commercial districts on here but your

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zoning may be you know C1 C2 and have
different uses setbacks things like

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that. Um same thing with residential and
some of these other areas. And so that's

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kind of a brief rundown. Um, I think
what we want to do is just have you all

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kind of review those for about what, 10
to 15 minutes. Um, feel free to mark up

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those maps as much as you want. Um,
really this is just kind of the first

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stab after meeting with staff of, you
know, kind of evaluating current land

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use and what we think it might be down
the road. Um, and after that 10 or 15

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minutes, we'll have a conversation and
kind of look through comments and and go

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from there. So, and I'll just kind of
walk around and y'all can feel free to

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ask me questions or um if you want to
discuss anything good for that as well.

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» Same. Can you guys see it upside down?
>> You're on the north end. We're on the

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south end.
>> So, this map

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is the
population 5000 because

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» we

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» this is just us hypothetically

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» local government
outjs

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you could annex more easily now it's
voluntary only But if you know for

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instance one day you were to annex this
ideally you see this being residential.

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It just helps that you're planning
infrastructure

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» but obviousity

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resour

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think
potentially want to do a commercial

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development.
And then this was just a location that

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kind of made sense for so

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close to school.

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But really
>> this is medium density. This is medium

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density. This is suggested
>> monuments.

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So this is suggest

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» I would hope that this is not
>> black is our current city

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» but we don't have any we have no
influence

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here which is existing.
>> Yeah those are already existing

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right
next to

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» this and the fact How many people
>> eventually hopefully the county were you

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going to talk about the county's
plan tonight?

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Well, as much as you count as much
information,00

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» school district
they've been annexed

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» industrial this is still these are both

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» the hope here
>> well I think property owners they're

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here both
>> hopeful there are some advantages to

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having something

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resial somebody by

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resil.

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come in here,
hey?

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» Well, that is I think that is not a
certainty, but it is a lean

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» this
part

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would make this very valable

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being

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here. Both of them are in that same.
>> Yes.

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» So this is based off of
>> the county.

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Yes.
So this is the current

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» development
comes around

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that becomes valuable commercially

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Yeah, we can change
>> like this one for anything. I mean, it

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can be commercial as well. I think the
idea was just transition zone from

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single family neighborhoods to not heavy
commercial, but

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» we're skipping ahead here on
thoroughare, but you're going to have a

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lot of objection to this being.
This is a neighbor

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right here.
>> You got about 40 houses with driveways

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here. That's notense.
That's a local

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» kind of pardon the phrase screw the by
putting that subdivision without reverse

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frontages. You got driveways right.
So you'll get some push back on that.

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And that thoroughare that is existing
was before that subdivision.

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» Yeah. So some of this is like proposed.
So this would be taking

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» I believe that was the county's idea
is to potentially bring that next.

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» Yeah. There's several segments on there
that are not

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right.
Keep in mind this is this is a future

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thoroughare. question is how are the
streets been way out? So those ones that

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you see connected up here in this area
were added to

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to help take relief off as the schools
grow right and so that this this portion

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here doesn't even exist right now.

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I think we probably need to go back to
the land use conversation because we got

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to get through the land use before we
can really explore the thoroughare.

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» I agree.
>> Okay. The thoroughare a little bit

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dictates
though what we want to see

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what what the what the county is going
to support terms of thoroughare is going

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to impact what we do with our land use
or are we hopeful that our land use

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tells the county
>> here.

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I think it's more possible that our land
use is going to tell the county what

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future streets we may need.
>> Yeah. And the land use map and the

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thoroughare map that we have. Yes. They
have a relationship to one another and

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they certainly impact each other,
>> but our thoroughare plan is our federal

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plan. We do want it to align with the
county's thoroughare plan certainly does

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not conflict with the county's federal
plan.

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and all the med wrong, but it's more
that your land use is going to drive

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your thorough affairs and then your
thorough drive.

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» Yeah. So, whatever thorough affairs you
all have as the counties, if they from

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my understanding, county doesn't have a
lot of funding lined up for some of

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these either. And so, really, it's just
planning like I was talking about right

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away. And if you anticipate or you want
commercial in certain areas down the

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road or neighborhoods like we're talking
about designating enough rightway so you

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have proper
that's really

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what you're thinking about in terms of
land use

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the the county is probably more likely
to be partners with us on the perimeter

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of thorough affairs rather than internal
to the city

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» yeah they pretty much said whatever is
in the city is up to the city they want

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to reflect those accurately on their map
but he up to the The county has been

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working on a grid outside of
>> the whole purpose of us meeting with the

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county was to make sure that whatever we
do in our thoroughare plan doesn't

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conflict as Christine mentioned a minute
ago doesn't conflict with where they may

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be wanting to put some streets through
and how all that complent one another

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right the best prime example I can give
you right now well I'll talk about when

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we get to plan let's go back to the land
use right

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» so I think
what you guys are seeing and correct

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most of everything along our major
highway corridors will be zone

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commercial right that has been the
intent for many years right and you

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still have residential division 51
speckled in here right

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just because they haven't moved or
whatever right so so take a take a look

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at the map tell us if there's any areas
I think mentioned this area right here

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already. Uh, is there any areas that
offer you guys any concern as far as how

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the zoning looks
on this map?

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» So, can we talk about the the schools
here?

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» So, we almost
uh converted the whole 50 acres here to

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commercial. Is that what this shows here
or is that partially is that what this?

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Yeah, that's existing school. This is
Bel Travel Center.

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» Okay. So, this is this this is currently
partially what is it?

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» This is
>> No, this is that

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» gas station.
>> Gas station and the attached existing 13

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acres to that.
>> Okay. This is

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» elementary.
>> Yes.

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So here

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this is the intermediate middle school.
>> Uh that's the state that's the middle

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school.
>> Okay.

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» So this is the area where it was
potentially going to go commercial.

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» Oh this is this is
>> so this section though is

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» I think you're talking about this
section right here.

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» Okay.
>> And what about this section here?

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00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,920
That'sriv.

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» So, this could potentially be
commercial.

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» There's a there's a home there and the
city the school district owns that

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little home there. This is where it used
to be common grow. There's a sign up

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now. There's a
food truck

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» food truck there.
>> And keep in mind this is not in our

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city.

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Both of those are not
this is not

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» this one.
So we do have some commercial entities

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right here.

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00:16:24,079 --> 00:16:29,519
» Yeah. And keep in mind too, you are
going to have throughout here, there

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00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:34,079
will be instance where you have maybe
specifically churches a lot of times are

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in uh like these low density residential
areas or you'll have commercial

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sprinkled in but future land use is
trying to capture the primary use of

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00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:49,519
that area. And so you can have instances
here and there have other uses.

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00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:53,000
But if you get super detailed like that,
then you're getting into

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00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:03,839
I know another parcel the city wanted
opinions on also is this one.

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00:17:01,519 --> 00:17:05,839
» So I believe it's currently zoned light
industrial.

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00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:09,919
» Yeah. So it currently has a light
industrial PD on it. It's about 10 years

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00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:15,120
old
negotiated with property owners are

196
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:21,520
still the property owners
consultant no longer employed by the

197
00:17:17,439 --> 00:17:26,240
city. The question becomes
you've got

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00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:33,360
all the way up to 9 street. Do you
immediately want to go across the street

199
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:38,440
or do you want
a buffer before you begin?

200
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:48,200
» So have
that 380. We already have that instance

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00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,200
here.

202
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:12,400
» So that doesn't have an expiration date.
>> No runs with the land. Well, sometimes

203
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:16,160
there's a a writer requirement that it
has to be built out of

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00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,160
» it doesn't.
>> Okay.

205
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:27,240
» The other concern too having that is
going to mean some level of truck

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00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,240
traffic.

207
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:44,280
the industrial route or even commercial

208
00:18:47,679 --> 00:18:55,000
when we get to the subdivision ordinance
we do need to have limits on the number

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00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,000
of access points

210
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:08,000
and you're right outside the red track
there trying to get in or out of

211
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:13,520
So,
>> so keeping in mind what you're looking

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00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:18,640
at is [clears throat] if you don't
desire make this something industrial,

213
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:24,080
all you're doing is doing a future land
use plan. You're not reszoning anything,

214
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:28,559
right? That would have to be done by
it.

215
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:34,320
If we're dealing with a developer who
wants to come in and do something, if he

216
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:39,760
sees that we're looking at this to be
resial, we're looking to be commercial,

217
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:42,480
whatever it might be, right? Then he'll
see that on our future land use, which

218
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,640
is basically you're telling the
developer, you're open to that concept,

219
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:54,280
right? The actual reasoning of it would
have to be done by the property

220
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:54,280
better for medium density over there.

221
00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:06,600
» So yeah, so define your definition of
medium density.

222
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,600
» Okay. So yeah, so

223
00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:10,000
» light vehicle traffic.
>> Yeah. You want the David Miller opinion?

224
00:20:09,679 --> 00:20:13,840
» Sure.
>> The David Miller opinion is that this

225
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:20,160
would be a good area for some type of
medium density property, right? Because

226
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,440
when you get into single family homes,
if you're going to push all the way up

227
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:27,919
into this area, you're backing right up
to the gas, right?

228
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:35,280
» Yeah. And that's the difficulty of
trying to to tell it as an S1, SF1, S2

229
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:38,320
because of it, the gas station. Medium
density, at least in my opinion, makes

230
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:42,080
sense.
>> Well, the downside of it is you've got

231
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:46,960
all the people here coming down these
streets to get to the grocery store.

232
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:52,480
» I think they turn right.
>> Well, they might or a lot of cars go

233
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:56,559
zigzag through here.
So

234
00:20:54,640 --> 00:21:01,360
» generally most
>> more high density developments closer to

235
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:03,120
the city center.
>> It depends on the city.

236
00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:06,159
» Yeah.
>> I've seen it both ways. It just kind of

237
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,520
depends on how it grows.
>> I'd rather see some if there's

238
00:21:07,679 --> 00:21:16,360
apartments going in sometime or town
homes somewhere

239
00:21:11,919 --> 00:21:16,360
because it gets us away gets away from

240
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:22,080
» If you talk about apartments, I would
consider those high density which we

241
00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:26,000
don't have any currently. You can change
that if you want.

242
00:21:24,159 --> 00:21:32,200
But through the survey and kind of
conversations, it sounds like it's

243
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:32,200
mostly going to be lowensity res

244
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:50,559
think.
This would be public. This is the

245
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:53,039
school. There's 17 acres here. They're
not

246
00:21:54,960 --> 00:22:00,880
or six acres. I think it's
here.

247
00:21:59,919 --> 00:22:02,559
» Oh, you're talking about along the
front.

248
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,960
» Okay.
>> So, this is I think there's a home on

249
00:22:04,559 --> 00:22:16,000
the corner. Maybe there's a couple homes
here and here already exist.

250
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:21,280
» Yeah. So, no, he's right. This here in
conversations that we've had with the

251
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:25,039
school district
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this

252
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:29,120
originally cut out to do something with
hindsightes with

253
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:33,520
» the owner did not want to sell.
>> Okay. So, they still own

254
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:37,320
» Okay.
24 acres here.

255
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:45,280
» Did you
did annex this? I don't know.

256
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:49,600
» We only annex.
>> Okay. I'll adjust that.

257
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:53,280
» So, this
I was thinking this was a half and

258
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:59,919
that's really it's on the other side of
the road. If that were to be medium

259
00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:06,080
density my only worry is that bridge get
transportation we'll stop

260
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:11,840
you mentioned the apartments on this
area my thought is that commercially

261
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:15,840
this is very
>> valable because I don't know that a guy

262
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:20,080
somebody building an apartment complex
is going to want to out somebody that's

263
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,600
comping

264
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:37,760
commercially, they'll be happy to look.
If we give a prime acreage for multif

265
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:41,440
family, commercial is not going to just
then go look somewhere else in the city.

266
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,960
A lot of the commercial developers we
talked to, if they can't get on 199,

267
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:51,200
they're not even really interested in
51. And so I think that's

268
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:58,640
prime acorage to to give up to consider
res. I agree which is why I think this I

269
00:23:54,159 --> 00:24:04,320
would not try to move to medium density.
>> So I I I would not recommend any type of

270
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:10,159
meeting
because that is the city's most primal

271
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:13,600
spot for commercial development, right?
And so if you want to pepper it further

272
00:24:12,159 --> 00:24:18,559
back, David, I understand what you're
saying, but the best

273
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:22,960
If you look at Weatherford's multif
family developments, they're all on the

274
00:24:20,159 --> 00:24:25,360
peripherals, right? And so, of course,
Weatherford is much more developed in

275
00:24:24,159 --> 00:24:30,559
the center than we are, which is
probably why. But the reality of it is,

276
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:34,559
uh, I wouldn't give up any valuable
commercial property along the side,

277
00:24:31,919 --> 00:24:40,799
especially at the rate that commercial
development is going right now. Uh, we

278
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:44,400
met with different developers today. you
have another meeting because I'm out the

279
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:49,760
rest of the week because my deal you got
a meeting tomorrow Thursday.

280
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:55,320
So it's u
there's too much interest in commercial

281
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,320
development along this

282
00:24:57,919 --> 00:25:06,240
and tax wise for the same acorage would
the city be getting more property taxes

283
00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:11,919
or
>> depends on builds rights if you you

284
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:17,520
three hair salons. Then the answer to
that

285
00:25:13,919 --> 00:25:22,480
three hair salons uh and compared to
apartment complex. No, you're going to

286
00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:26,799
get more tax off the apartment complex.
You build big box and you're going to

287
00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:31,000
get more tax and sales tax off that big
box apartment complex.

288
00:25:31,039 --> 00:25:36,840
» You also have to look at the cost to
serve complex

289
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:46,720
cost more. Also,
depending on what fire apparat

290
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:50,360
on height.
>> There's only one quint.

291
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:59,520
» So we're limited to what? Two stories.
>> Three.

292
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:06,120
» That's max right now.
>> Will our current ordinances even

293
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:06,120
» max.

294
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:18,120
So these are the buckets for land use.
>> So we're no longer just commercial res.

295
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:29,960
» So what what do you mean by semi semi? I
thought that was kind of outdated term.

296
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:29,960
So I mean most people put cemeteries

297
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,240
like county

298
00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:41,640
has been known by the public access

299
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:50,520
that's currently part of certain
subdivisions is that considered public

300
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:57,840
» yeah we can carve that out but typically
those are going to be smaller So,

301
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:05,159
you wouldn't show that, but we can
certainly pull those parts in

302
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,159
» right now.

303
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,520
And there's 51.

304
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:16,520
» Okay.
>> I think that would be

305
00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:24,600
small amount.

306
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:41,039
So one other thing's
statute now that requires you to have

307
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:45,520
some instance of manufactured housing
manufactured housing. So essentially we

308
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:51,919
designated an area that already has
manufactured housing for that relatively

309
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:55,919
small area keeps us out of being out of
comp doesn't encourage

310
00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:00,080
substantial
manufactured housing development to

311
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:05,640
necessarily go right in the middle of
something that we're envisioning for

312
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,640
something else.

313
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:12,600
» That's a new
manufacturer.

314
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:19,120
» I want to see that.
>> Well, actually South Lake has unless

315
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:24,640
they've changed it. You know where
Pearson Road is in South Lake and if you

316
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,640
go south on Pearson, it makes a

317
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,000
partisan.

318
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:51,480
We already have an area off of Ash
Street that has that. So that's what we

319
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,480
dictated on the map.

320
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:10,799
buy it out one day. Wink wink and do
something different. We're open to that,

321
00:29:07,919 --> 00:29:15,360
too. But we have to have
>> Yeah.

322
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:21,120
» So, here's one, too. You have to have
zoning in your city. You have to

323
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:24,159
designate us that will actually allow
sexually aren't business,

324
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,360
» right?
>> We've got about 30 pages worth of

325
00:29:26,399 --> 00:29:32,000
regulation on that.
>> We do, but you have to allow it. You

326
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:35,120
have to have a zoner that allows it. So,
technically,

327
00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:38,400
» which one is that?
>> That is not [laughter]

328
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:44,440
the way we handle that
very

329
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,320
apply.

330
00:29:54,559 --> 00:30:01,520
discretionary
as far as

331
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:08,159
they're not guaranteed to be able to do
it, but we have to provide any

332
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:12,159
process by
all

333
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:15,840
they at least have opportunity or a
chance to say no.

334
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:22,000
» Yeah. the idea that you can just zone
out by just not listing it in your table

335
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:27,320
that that's not entirely accurate. You
have to you can make the process pretty

336
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,320
incessor.

337
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:40,399
Do we allow data in the city? We don't
have a use for it right now.

338
00:30:36,159 --> 00:30:44,399
» Well, so so truth is you have to
consider they have the right to to

339
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:48,559
apply.
They had the right. The greater truth is

340
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:54,080
we don't have enough space in the city
to put them, right? And currently we

341
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:57,200
would not be without impacting our
citizens, we would not be able to get

342
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,760
the water.
So I'm

343
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:04,000
» unless they
>> they're looking

344
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:08,640
they offered a friend of mine right out
of right off their 920

345
00:31:06,399 --> 00:31:10,480
» right there. 400 acres and then they got
to looking and they couldn't put it

346
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,240
there.
>> Yeah.

347
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,080
» But they offered him money for his
property. They're looking everywhere.

348
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,559
You know, we've been approached by a
couple in the past.

349
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:26,880
» So, what's the demarcation between low
density resity?

350
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:31,200
» Low density is just standard single
family neighborhoods. I mean you can go

351
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:38,799
into if you want to you could have low
density rural residential because that's

352
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:45,600
in your rural res
medium density as far as I'm defining it

353
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:50,720
for y town
maybe but I would say if you start

354
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,720
getting larger complex it's going to be
high

355
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,720
multip
So even like

356
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,080
» Yeah.

357
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:17,279
» And even then too you can depending on
what you want in a zoning or you can be

358
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:22,640
very detailed
>> gentle density you can allow certain

359
00:32:19,519 --> 00:32:25,440
circumstances are
things like

360
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:29,279
» I think I think important point because
something that you guys will be

361
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:33,120
considering in coming months is a new
map. This is a building block. We're

362
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:40,320
certainly not going to propose a zoning
map that conflicts with the land use.

363
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:44,559
So as
mentioned earlier,

364
00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:49,440
so you may have a commercial area that's
all commercial

365
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:54,080
when we adopt a new zoning zoning. You
may have two or three commercial

366
00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:58,720
districts from which to choose all of
own table which is different all their

367
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:06,240
different development standards from
setbacks to parking requirements to

368
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:11,120
maximum area coverage. Um, so that's
something to be thinking about as you're

369
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:16,880
making decisions and recommendations
based on the land use map is that if you

370
00:33:14,159 --> 00:33:22,000
assign an area commercial when we go to
start working on the zoning map, however

371
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:30,240
many commercial zoning districts you
have to choose from, that's going to be

372
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:34,960
your options to assign to that area. Um
you can there's two options when we get

373
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:39,120
to the zoning map stage. One would be
parcel based where each parcel has a

374
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:43,279
zoning designation specific to the
parcel which is what we've operated on

375
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:48,000
in the past and there's some pros and
cons to that and another is more of a

376
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:55,519
neighborhood or street level zoning
where you don't have opportunities for

377
00:33:51,200 --> 00:34:00,799
speckled in parcels of different uses.
We can debate the pros and cons of each

378
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:05,840
of those get to that stage.
Keep in mind as you're looking at this

379
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:11,119
is that this is the building block for
the zoning maps.

380
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:16,399
» So so when we get to that stage, will
there be there should be no conflicts

381
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:20,399
between something that is the use is
residential but the zoning set is

382
00:34:17,919 --> 00:34:22,879
commercial or we still have some
outliers?

383
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,520
» Uh it just depends. I mean you could
have

384
00:34:23,839 --> 00:34:30,000
There may be potential areas now that
are zoned residential that collectively

385
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:35,919
everyone says this makes more sense for
commercial. Then if we decide to update

386
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:39,119
that the zoning ordinance, it doesn't
change anything. That use is going to be

387
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,440
a legal non-conforming use until
something changes.

388
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:48,320
And something else to keep in mind too
is this future language plan. We're

389
00:34:47,359 --> 00:34:51,359
going to go through we're going to adopt
this and develop it. But this is still a

390
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:54,879
living document just like the rest of
the plan. So if someone came into

391
00:34:53,359 --> 00:34:59,200
downtown said hey we really want to do a
really cool mixed use and then we have

392
00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:03,839
this commercial and that involves you
know commercial and residential doesn't

393
00:35:01,839 --> 00:35:08,880
mean you have to say oh no this is only
commercial you can amend a land use plan

394
00:35:07,359 --> 00:35:16,200
very
documents in the plan that explain how

395
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:16,200
to do that most changes kind

396
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:24,800
» that's a good point this entire document
is a fluid document

397
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:29,839
doesn't it doesn't nail once it's all
passed. It doesn't nail the city council

398
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:35,839
down to one specific thing. It can all
be changed because you may have you may

399
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:38,839
have a
zer

400
00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:46,560
wants to come in
thousands of dollars. You can always

401
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:52,720
change that. It's a very fluid document.
This is just building stone foundation

402
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,720
to build that off.

403
00:35:57,359 --> 00:36:04,560
At the end of the day too, it helps and
council because when they're evaluating

404
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:08,880
zoning or land use or anything like
that, they say, "Okay, is this align

405
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:16,920
with what we all talked about talked
about citizens agree with this and then

406
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,920
if it's substantially different

407
00:36:20,079 --> 00:36:27,040
that when we do this and especially as
we begin to work on the zoning

408
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:30,160
components of it that this group here
will not be able to make everybody

409
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:33,599
happy,
>> right? You just won't be able. But

410
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:39,119
that's why it's important to explain to
them that this is just this is just a

411
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:44,400
road mapap foundation to get us for to
help us guide our future growth that

412
00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:48,000
it's not set in stone because you have
somebody come in because happens to me

413
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:52,079
every time I change somebody comes to me
says hey you got commercial zoning

414
00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:55,040
that's my house and you have this bill
that doesn't mean you're going to lose

415
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:58,720
your house right so you're not going to
be able to make everybody happy main

416
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:03,119
thing is you're looking to establish a
direction for the city to be moving in

417
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:06,119
to grow that's still coming into the
city.

418
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:16,880
So there's a lot a lot going on out
here. You got a lot of different

419
00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:23,119
different uses in a small amount of
space there. Uh so for schools is it

420
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:30,079
generally preferable to have residential
next to schools? In this case, we would

421
00:37:25,839 --> 00:37:35,200
not have
what's the general strategy case

422
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:38,200
by case basis. I mean, I've seen
situations

423
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:49,760
I drove by school the other day
or town front street.

424
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,720
So
really

425
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:57,680
» going back to South Lake what's all
built around Carol High School right

426
00:37:55,839 --> 00:38:05,119
it's a case
>> this park up here is baseball field

427
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:10,800
» for everybody
>> there's not a way to change so that's

428
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:14,320
parts of recreation but not city parks
but it's not public

429
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:18,240
» yeah we can change it
>> is that

430
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:22,800
» it's primarily recreation
But our city park is is that public or

431
00:38:21,839 --> 00:38:27,520
» park
>> build off that would be any for like

432
00:38:25,119 --> 00:38:29,440
Lions Club to say park recreation
private own

433
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,960
» we can do that
>> right so that it's not it's not confused

434
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:37,359
with say the city's ball fields or
anything

435
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:53,400
Kelly right property.
They can't sell

436
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:04,560
that's not
>> and that's why I think the distinction

437
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:08,320
saying private owners would be good
because

438
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:11,520
It's not a city park. We don't maintain
it.

439
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:16,640
Right.
>> Mr. Randolph,

440
00:39:13,839 --> 00:39:22,800
a portion of this property you think is
similarly is it already locked in.

441
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:27,520
» She's talked about being locked in.
>> Well, she's if you look at the taxes on

442
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:32,400
it, she's already got
the way worded on the taxes. She's

443
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:39,200
already got it locked in. But that's
what she that's what her husband

444
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:44,880
wildlife sanctuary is, you know, she has
no siblings and her husband's siblings

445
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:51,680
was his. So, if something ever happens
to her, from what I understand, she's

446
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:55,920
got a she's got that turned into
maybe like a big company that she's

447
00:39:54,160 --> 00:40:00,320
going to will it to that's going to go
to. Who knows what?

448
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:04,320
» Is that a deep restriction?
>> Well, no. No, it's not necessarily deep

449
00:40:02,079 --> 00:40:06,720
restriction. You just She changed it.
It's like a tr Yeah, she's got it in a

450
00:40:06,079 --> 00:40:12,800
trust.
>> But is it

451
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:15,920
six? What is this? Not six.
>> See, I'm I'm right. I'm right here.

452
00:40:14,357 --> 00:40:19,440
[clears throat] This is me.
>> And then she starts Let's see. That's

453
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:23,119
Spring Branch.
>> There's a house on the corner, Spring

454
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,680
Branch. And hers will start there, goes
all the way to the

455
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,240
» She's not talking.
>> Well, part of it.

456
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:32,400
» Part of it is. Yeah. She go She's next
to Terry Tal. She goes way.

457
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:35,760
» So that really leaves then.
>> She comes 30 acres there.

458
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:42,800
» But there's homes here.
>> Yeah. Terry Terry's the only home there.

459
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:46,480
That's
>> So Terry Terry's right here on the

460
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:54,599
corner. She goes all the way to the
creek all the way. She goes all the way.

461
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:54,599
So

462
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:04,240
» I don't know where else
>> any buffer here would be difficult

463
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,240
because it's landlocked.

464
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:12,440
this one.
>> Yeah.

465
00:41:08,319 --> 00:41:12,440
» From industrial to reser

466
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,960
between commercial.

467
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:36,200
Well,
presumption

468
00:41:55,200 --> 00:42:06,119
in there
since we don't really have very much

469
00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:06,119
Again, my opinion that's a good area.

470
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:16,960
» Well, if this this is the cities and I
know that there's a couple properties

471
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:26,160
over here, but on the wider map, this
road empties to 199. This this road

472
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:30,960
» and attaches. So this property,
some of this property, if there were

473
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:36,000
medium density, it could empty here or
here and avoid that. But that's not in

474
00:42:33,119 --> 00:42:42,319
the city project terms what's in the
city limits or near touching the ETJ.

475
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:45,119
It's pretty well it's already designated
in ways that I don't know that we could

476
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:50,240
there's a way to change. I mean, there
are already home there already homes

477
00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:55,920
here. I can't change that. Uh there
already homes here.

478
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:59,160
This is I don't know how many properties
are over there

479
00:43:00,319 --> 00:43:06,000
» 10 acres.
>> Yeah, we're we're anywhere from five to

480
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:09,000
seven. I own seven. My daughter owns
five.

481
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:16,280
Yeah, Wilson owns he owns he bought his
aunts. So he owns about 12.

482
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:34,000
» Well, in terms of growth, there's
nothing here right now. There's nothing

483
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:37,599
here and here right now. This is tractor
supply

484
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:41,560
» and the nursing home.
Is this the edge track?

485
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,760
» This is

486
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,440
close.
>> All right. And we have already been

487
00:43:53,839 --> 00:43:59,280
approached by somebody with some
interest in this.

488
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:03,680
» Yes. You'll actually have a four acres
of that right at the corner later this

489
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:10,000
month and then annexation and zoning
will come in September.

490
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:14,480
So these two propert this area, this
area and this area are the commercial

491
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:17,960
designated commercial that you do not
yet have commercial.

492
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:26,200
» Yes, that's correct.
>> That's a lot to fill in the next how

493
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:26,200
frequently will we have these?

494
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:31,480
I can't see all that disappearing in the
next

495
00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:34,599
24,

496
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:45,680
» but unless there's some significant
annexation, we're kind of

497
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:49,440
» just tell you that anything's possible
right now. So, so are we then tasked

498
00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:55,200
with should we look at what we would
hope these properties these properties

499
00:44:52,400 --> 00:45:00,359
or these properties
>> where does not stand where

500
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:05,000
is this bittersweet at the beginning

501
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,720
» it's

502
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,319
so what's

503
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,280
There's a church

504
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:26,680
» and also that's
>> on the north side of that

505
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,400
» lady.

506
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:43,480
Uh Perry.
>> Yeah, Perry. She still lives up in that

507
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,480
area. She has a little

508
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,480
» sliveres.

509
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,240
What's his name? Stoker.

510
00:45:57,599 --> 00:46:07,200
» Is there benefit to us covering some of
this land use in our ETJs?

511
00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:11,040
» You can. Yeah. Uh the other thing about
ETJ also is that

512
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:16,319
theoretically you can enforce your
subdivision regulations in your TJ. So

513
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:24,079
if someone does not like your subition
out and so um you are you are planning

514
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:29,280
for an area potentially [clears throat]
be out of I think you already have a few

515
00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:35,440
petitions that we need to map as is
>> the risk under the the current state law

516
00:46:33,359 --> 00:46:40,079
is if you map out your land use plan
into your ETJ and somebody sees that and

517
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:43,359
they think hey they're fixing to do
something on my land there's no petition

518
00:46:41,839 --> 00:46:49,440
to get out ETJ
which then gives you zero control,

519
00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:52,880
right? And so, so
>> should a future property owner decide

520
00:46:51,839 --> 00:46:58,079
they want
>> Yeah. because then they got to get

521
00:46:54,319 --> 00:47:02,160
permission back into annex and so you
know I think under the current state why

522
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:06,480
it's good to put it out there I don't
know that it's I don't know that it's

523
00:47:03,839 --> 00:47:11,280
necessarily wise either right so
>> yeah and I think that's it's not going

524
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:17,040
to have any practical impact but it
could substantial impact and that you

525
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:20,240
are going to have some people who simply
don't understand what that means and

526
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:24,240
like David said they're going to see
that they're going to panic and they're

527
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:27,359
find out that they can petition for ETJ
release and they're just going to go

528
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:33,960
file that petition and once it's filed
we can't go coun them and say hey may

529
00:47:29,839 --> 00:47:33,960
not understand please

530
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:42,160
Mr. got about 100 acres sitting out
there right off 199 just east of the

531
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:46,640
lynch property
and of course Mr. Mooney has passed away

532
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:50,160
but
if you were to go tell his kids that

533
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:55,440
we're going to we're going to put
commercial on that or medium density or

534
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:59,040
whatever there's a high probability
they're just going to turn around and

535
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:03,200
say get us out of your right because
they at least the last conversations had

536
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,880
they weren't interested in anything
other than

537
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:12,240
Right. So it may cause it may cause
pain. The the other side of that

538
00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:16,960
Christina mentioned a second too is if
property does develop that developer can

539
00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:21,040
come into the city and annex right then
you're dealing with that developer. So

540
00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:26,160
but it's it's y'all's call to make I'm
just in that scenario

541
00:48:24,303 --> 00:48:29,920
[clears throat] violating as a council
the

542
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:33,920
comprehensive plan.
>> No not necessarily because if like I

543
00:48:32,079 --> 00:48:38,720
said it's a living document. someone
were to come up especially in ETJ

544
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:42,000
there's some cities that have ETJ just
future development they don't even

545
00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:47,440
designate anything the reason we didn't
look because primarily outj that's where

546
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:53,280
it is minus you know a few of these
parcels here and there but um yeah if

547
00:48:51,760 --> 00:49:00,040
that were to happen you had a developer
come in say hey we want to annex then

548
00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:00,040
you would amend your future language

549
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,079
» and that essentiallys

550
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:11,119
Yeah, we'll have a record in the front
of the plan that goes through or you

551
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:17,079
have a date why it was amended or that
way whoever's looking also.

552
00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:17,079
Okay.

553
00:49:19,599 --> 00:49:27,359
» It's really to think about the comp plan
and the land use plan as guiding

554
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:30,960
decisions, not necessarily restricting
decisions.

555
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:35,920
zoning is where you get to maybe
restricting decisions, but

556
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:40,000
the plan is just really this is kind of
what we envisioned. Hey, this great

557
00:49:37,599 --> 00:49:46,839
opportunity comes up. We don't want to
deny it just because it doesn't align

558
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,839
unless it's substantial something.

559
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:57,200
» Yeah. I mean, your plan should protect
you from you don't want you into that

560
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:00,200
one time, but you have a better
alternative.

561
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,000
land.

562
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:26,480
» That's fairly recent though, right?
>> Yes. About three, four years ago, the

563
00:50:23,119 --> 00:50:31,839
legisle passed a law that says you can
petition for release from and a city has

564
00:50:29,839 --> 00:50:34,960
to release you.
>> Several cities sued pretty much

565
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:39,200
immediately saying that's
unconstitutional. You don't have a take

566
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:44,880
that authority away from us. That's
still progressing through. So what we

567
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:49,599
have done is we have adopted an
ordinance that says okay you can file

568
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:55,920
for release and the council has two
options. They on it, which would could

569
00:50:52,400 --> 00:51:02,480
be seen as taking action to support that
request. Or they take no action and it's

570
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:05,880
approved by operation of law. Basically,
it's approved because

571
00:51:07,839 --> 00:51:15,839
some of these courtesy
this is all very legal

572
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:19,640
potentially go back to the ones that we
didn't take action on

573
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,880
and say hey you were never

574
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:32,640
the likelihood of that happening I'm not
hopeful but that really was the only

575
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:37,599
Yeah, we got legislative session that
starts

576
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:42,000
get worse.
>> I have a feeling it will get worse. The

577
00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:47,040
state has historically last I don't know
how many cycles has made it harder for

578
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:53,839
local communities. So on every level
zoning and everything involved so that's

579
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:56,839
what our goal is to navigate best we
can.

580
00:52:06,559 --> 00:52:09,800
You bet.

581
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:34,319
» But uh so I said we met with the They
have a he gave us a draft uh or let us

582
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:38,160
look at a draft could keep it. Um he
also made a lot of revisions during that

583
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:43,839
meeting. So we're wait I think September
was the time frame he gave a draft. Um

584
00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:48,880
the biggest thing the countyy's plan is
very ambitious for some of their

585
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:55,119
» rideways
a lot of six lane divided which and so

586
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:58,400
really it's whether or not we don't want
to contradict a plan but we also want to

587
00:52:56,559 --> 00:53:04,480
be realistic in what you all envision
happening and so um that's kind of where

588
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:08,079
we're at is we'll have more information
when the county releases their plan or

589
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:13,280
gives us a draft and then we can
compare. Um but for now we went through

590
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:18,800
this was the big one that the county put
in was the principal arterial he said

591
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:23,960
six lane six would be very tight there
we'll see um Williams

592
00:53:24,319 --> 00:53:31,280
we probably have to get about 20 ft of
rideway the length of it to make it

593
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:36,559
function as lane and that would be with
no kind of shoulder acceleration

594
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:40,880
acceleration six lane
it's not likely especially

595
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:45,680
they don't intend to make any
improvements.

596
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:51,839
So you have a six lane going into a two
lane. It doesn't make sense. It's high

597
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:55,839
and they had more out here in the EJ. I
don't have those because I don't know

598
00:53:52,960 --> 00:54:01,440
the specifics, but they were also large
right away. He had essentially a grid

599
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:05,280
around the city. That's how most
transportation planners plan. They want

600
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:09,359
to get everything into a nice neat grid.
In reality, roads don't work that way

601
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:14,480
all the time. You kind of got to work
with what you have. The county of this

602
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:18,662
green, I believe it's already
in design.

603
00:54:16,319 --> 00:54:22,319
» Design. Yeah, it's in design for
[clears throat]

604
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:28,000
Hutcherson to be extended across Old
Town 51 and then to make that connection

605
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:34,920
back to the L intersection. Their
funding as far as expansion for capacity

606
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:34,920
is how we found out today.

607
00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:42,000
So, it's not going to add any additional
lanes. It's going to make the existing

608
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:47,040
lane road more standard than it
currently is. So it would be future

609
00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:52,319
projects that look at expanding that
from the existing two lane

610
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:57,119
» and
also

611
00:54:54,079 --> 00:55:01,280
dumping on I think similar concerns
about

612
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:06,240
as well and they're supposedly supposed
to be signal.

613
00:55:03,359 --> 00:55:12,880
» Yeah. So text has had a signal funded
there for several years.

614
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:16,720
We have a a lot of
quite frequently it seems. So as soon as

615
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:23,760
we get up to speed with one seems we
have another one

616
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:29,000
we currently have is fairly new
to get status check from that last

617
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:41,040
design right and so we just need to get
new engine

618
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:47,839
but my that this signal right here is
already

619
00:55:43,839 --> 00:55:51,280
» and then the uh signal or intersection
improvements would be doing a study

620
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:56,640
essentially to evaluate the timing of
those lights how to improve traffic on

621
00:55:53,440 --> 00:56:01,040
51 if there's any additional signal
improvements that could help the flow of

622
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:04,799
traffic. the county from talking with
them I don't think they had any

623
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:09,440
intention of doing any major substantial
changes to 51

624
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:16,119
I think we even have it classified I
think they may have had as art a minor

625
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:16,119
arterial I have as art

626
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:26,960
» so
but here they're talking about widening

627
00:56:23,599 --> 00:56:32,079
widening not here
>> they are looking at expansion to the

628
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:38,960
where we see a lot of the traffic back
up today from 199 to

629
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:44,160
believe a lot of it is timing issues of
the signal lights

630
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:49,839
to promote traffic flow particularly
during peak hours also since we did just

631
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:55,119
have an expansion significant expansion
project the likelihood of text growing a

632
00:56:53,280 --> 00:57:00,319
significant dollar amount towards
expanding it yet again especially in an

633
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:05,440
area they do not have any more rideway.
They ate up the rideway they had with

634
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:09,520
the last expansion project is unlikely.
We have to look at alternative ways of

635
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:14,799
making traffic flow and that's either
moving traffic to another roadway

636
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:21,119
intersection improvements timing of the
lights but again the 519

637
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:26,760
exped
if they expand now some of our downtown

638
00:57:31,599 --> 00:57:37,559
right for example at the chamber
literally

639
00:57:40,559 --> 00:57:45,480
without going into the east side of the
square

640
00:57:46,799 --> 00:57:54,799
» and honestly from a planning perspective
why would not

641
00:57:52,319 --> 00:57:58,000
you need to get traffic off
>> and so using other

642
00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:03,040
» and we've had conversations with text
about getting

643
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:09,599
traffic off of 51 just had that
conversation with engineer three weeks

644
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:14,720
ago. The question is how because they
are very open to doing that now but the

645
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:18,799
only alternate route we have 18 wheelers
to get around spring

646
00:58:17,119 --> 00:58:24,799
and I'm not about to advocate dumping
all the 18 wheelers on the street that

647
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:32,640
has the most schools right and so they
they are open to to doing that but I

648
00:58:28,079 --> 00:58:38,799
can't see us using for that alterative
>> but I love what you said it seems to me

649
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:43,839
They redid the intersection
>> 51 got worse.

650
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:48,480
» The traffic from from north to south.
>> I think there's some signalization

651
00:58:45,599 --> 00:58:55,319
timing issues there. And I also think
that semi plays a significant role

652
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:55,319
because everybody

653
00:58:57,695 --> 00:59:03,760
[clears throat]
timing issues and you get what you see

654
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:06,960
today. Like this morning it was backed
up down

655
00:59:08,175 --> 00:59:11,599
» [clears throat]
>> This is kind of getting in the weeds,

656
00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:14,160
but do they have a sensor that can tell
how much the traffic is backed up or is

657
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:19,440
it just timing?
>> I believe it's just timing.

658
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:23,520
» When you hit the on 51 at first, when
you hit the crosswalk button, it will

659
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:27,440
not change if there's more than four or
five cars in either direction. You sit

660
00:59:25,119 --> 00:59:31,520
there and wait and wait until there's a
sizable gap between cars, then it

661
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:34,880
changes so you can walk. So the sensors
are reading how many vehicles are coming

662
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:37,280
before it'll change to a walk sign.
>> Is that coincidental or is there a

663
00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:40,240
sensor?
>> I I pressed that crosswalk a hund times

664
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,960
a day.
>> So the way that cross is supposed to

665
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:47,520
work,
>> it's reading the cars

666
00:59:44,079 --> 00:59:50,559
» is is it the way it was designed and
this and these are conversations we've

667
00:59:48,799 --> 00:59:54,880
had with text on numerous occasions over
the last couple years. The way that

668
00:59:52,319 --> 00:59:58,640
intersection was designed
was it was supposed to be a steady flow

669
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:05,760
of green for north and southbound
traffic on 51 until either a pedestrian

670
01:00:02,079 --> 01:00:09,839
activated the crosswalk or a car going
east or west on first

671
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:12,400
» trigger the sensor, right? Or trigger
trigger the

672
01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:14,240
» cars do trigger it much quicker
>> than the pedestrian.

673
01:00:13,119 --> 01:00:18,400
» The pedestrian does not.
>> So, but when you hit that pedestrian

674
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,760
signal,
>> it's supposed to immediately start the

675
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:25,680
cycle process. Yeah.
>> So, so

676
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:31,200
it was always my understanding that east
and west now first is censored

677
01:00:28,559 --> 01:00:33,280
north and south 51 is not but these are
conversations.

678
01:00:32,079 --> 01:00:36,880
» Well, and it could be that there are
sensors there but the signals operated

679
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:41,680
on the timer just because the sensor is
there in

680
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:46,440
the other is that when that was designed
in the way that David said they

681
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:55,040
designed it
at that time did the constant flow of

682
01:00:51,839 --> 01:00:58,480
east west traffic that we saw after the
project was over and the roadway

683
01:00:56,799 --> 01:01:03,280
reopened. Now all of a sudden there's
constant cross

684
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:06,400
» they destroyed all the other roads. So
every other road got beat to death. So

685
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:10,160
all the people who would have went other
routes have to get on 51. That's the

686
01:01:08,319 --> 01:01:13,280
influx of traffic to 51.
>> So you give me an idea what we're

687
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:17,280
dealing with text.
>> A few a few months ago we were walking

688
01:01:15,359 --> 01:01:23,079
chamber office. We hit the crosswalk and
it said wait before you cross. Fairfield

689
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:29,240
I'm not at le

690
01:01:32,079 --> 01:01:35,599
» it's enough of an issue where I'm
worried about

691
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:38,880
» I think I'm going to lose business going
across the street because if you have to

692
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:42,000
hit that button and it's raining no
one's going to stand there for

693
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:47,599
» well three or four minutes in the rain.
>> We've got a new area engineer. I finally

694
01:01:43,839 --> 01:01:51,280
had the meeting three weeks ago and we
have council next week but and are

695
01:01:49,839 --> 01:01:56,240
getting together. He's coming out to
make a site visit with me to Springtown

696
01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:59,839
in early September and we're going to
talk about the crosswalks. We're going

697
01:01:58,079 --> 01:02:03,200
to talk about the intersections. We're
going to talk about the timings. We're

698
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:05,119
going to talk about 199. We have a whole
whole list of stuff to go over there

699
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:09,280
with them.
>> Do our planter barricades come into

700
01:02:07,839 --> 01:02:13,359
segregate the
>> the sidewalk from we need to have right

701
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:19,119
and so it's
>> scares me. I come around the front door.

702
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:25,920
» So, but so the new area engineer does
very open, right, to to doing what he

703
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:30,000
can to help spring out that honestly
that hasn't always been the case, right?

704
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:34,960
But the new guy seems like he seems
pretty solid right now. And at the end

705
01:02:32,799 --> 01:02:38,960
of the day, we're going to put all this
into a plan so that way when they are

706
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:43,280
having discussions, they say, "Look,
this is what our council see presidents,

707
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:46,640
these are all issues. It's not just
David coming and saying this, this is

708
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:49,880
the entire city. These are issues that
we're experiencing.

709
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:56,839
You've taken a lot of notes. What What
in do you have?

710
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:11,359
» No matter what they do design, by the
time they get it built, it be obsolete.

711
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:17,520
» You know, it's just way because it takes
so long.

712
01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:22,720
I'll be dead before.
>> It' be nice to have a loop around.

713
01:03:20,799 --> 01:03:28,960
» That's what I was gonna say. Not very
long ago, the plan was that this loop to

714
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:34,400
connect to what is Hutcherson like
routers over here. This was supposed to

715
01:03:31,599 --> 01:03:36,319
connect here and they decided this was
going to be too expensive.

716
01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:39,680
» Too expensive. Yeah. They couldn't get
enough right away. They buy a whole lot

717
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:44,640
of houses.
>> Well,

718
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:48,640
so somebody in a the county level
meeting some people who live in Crescent

719
01:03:47,039 --> 01:03:54,480
were talking about that to get from
Crescent to was it Winstar Winar Ch

720
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:57,440
what's north what's north of Gainesville
Winstar

721
01:03:55,599 --> 01:04:03,200
» that it was faster to go through
Springtown to Gainesville Springtown

722
01:04:01,039 --> 01:04:07,920
Gainesville than it was to get on try to
get on 35 go up

723
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:13,119
» and the bottleneck
>> from the whole of the whole trip

724
01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:17,240
this is the bottleneck and there was
discussions We all do a casino

725
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:25,200
so far.
[laughter]

726
01:04:22,319 --> 01:04:28,400
» I know a couple guys.
>> Well, and I said that just go to get

727
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:35,680
north
>> to go north to

728
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:40,720
and bypass all of challenges from South
Florida. What's that?

729
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:46,799
» It is they it's quick most parts of the
day. Google and Apple will both take

730
01:04:43,039 --> 01:04:50,079
that. But as they widen this this
bottleneck,

731
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:53,760
» it's never going to this won't change.
And so the thought has to be, do you go

732
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:58,079
around or do you go around?
>> And they and the reality is they could

733
01:04:55,200 --> 01:05:01,680
actually widen 51, but but not not
significant enough because the bottom if

734
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,720
they even widen it to the north, they're
not going to be able to do it through

735
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:08,400
the square. So the bottleneck's still
going to be there. May be shorter, but

736
01:05:06,799 --> 01:05:12,079
it's still going to be there.
Seems like all your small cities though

737
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:17,119
when you travel and you go through these
small cities and you got downtown areas

738
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:20,720
they're the same way as go through the
wrong time of day.

739
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:24,720
» Yeah. Down
the difference.

740
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:29,200
» Exactly. But the difference is if you go
through our square and you go through

741
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:32,400
square. Yeah. Granberry square backs up
too. Right.

742
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:34,240
» The difference is look for the 18
traffic in square.

743
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:37,119
» It's not there.
>> Doesn't exist. Right.

744
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:41,039
» Because they're going around. That's
right.

745
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:44,200
» So the only
two goss

746
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:54,960
» but that 18-wheeler is not going to take
that turn or that

747
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:58,400
» they will
>> these streets unfortunately will not

748
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:02,720
handle the traffic.
>> They still come down our street you know

749
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:06,240
since the construction on 51 and they
had them routed. Any of them that knows

750
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:09,440
that you can turn a tractor supply and
then come down to get it back to 51.

751
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:13,520
» Do you see something?
>> Oh, all the time.

752
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:17,520
» All the time. [clears throat]
>> So,

753
01:06:15,359 --> 01:06:23,599
this is this is my personal issue here.
I know, but this is that subject's

754
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:28,319
talking about. So, this as a as a
collector doesn't really make sense.

755
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:33,680
This is land that's not available for
sale. I know that's been widened. That's

756
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:41,280
been widened, but the normal path is for
people to take this job here

757
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:46,799
or just go down this way. But as an
alternate path, this is the usual way

758
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:52,079
people go down through third street.
Third street could be widened. That's

759
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:58,640
that's more of a potential for at least
a jog of a zigzag collector, which

760
01:06:56,079 --> 01:07:05,760
doesn't really make it a collector, but
it would be a path like this potentially

761
01:07:02,799 --> 01:07:11,520
like this if you want an alternate more
diagonal path to get from 51.

762
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:14,960
» Yeah. And David, I understand your
concerns here, but these people are

763
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:19,039
going to have that same concern
>> and they're already getting a lot of

764
01:07:16,319 --> 01:07:22,240
traffic. You might have the same concern
if you're going to do something like

765
01:07:20,079 --> 01:07:26,880
that. Just a suggestion is you jog it
and then turn it back up this way and

766
01:07:24,319 --> 01:07:30,520
finish it out and not send it down
>> or you consider just

767
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:36,960
» here.
The other thing to keep in mind too is

768
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:43,440
collector the definition of a collector
is getting people from local areas onto

769
01:07:40,079 --> 01:07:47,839
arterials. So they'll go places and so
really it kind of functions correctly as

770
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:53,200
a collector. from those neighborhoods
out to the two arterials. Um whereas you

771
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:57,280
know the green the minor arterials those
are designed to carry heavier traffic.

772
01:07:55,520 --> 01:08:01,520
That's where you get truck traffic
ideally. Um you would not want truck

773
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:06,160
traffic coming through or heavy amounts
of traffic other than like school

774
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:09,839
traffic maybe on a collector
street.

775
01:08:06,799 --> 01:08:13,599
» Yeah. I mean I agree with Dton. I think
would be functioning as intended as a

776
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:18,000
collector but
>> if we have to look at an alternative

777
01:08:16,480 --> 01:08:22,719
probably
going to be your best bet. Um the

778
01:08:20,319 --> 01:08:27,679
difficulty is we really wanted to
identify a collector that went from one

779
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:31,040
side of the city to the other side of
the city. And I don't think you're going

780
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:34,799
to accomplish that with Sixth Street
because it doesn't get anywhere near 51,

781
01:08:33,199 --> 01:08:39,839
let alone cross it.
>> Um

782
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:47,920
9th Street
difficult. I mean has historically been

783
01:08:43,759 --> 01:08:52,159
the midtown east west collector and
because it does eventually feed into

784
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:57,679
work which as you see is identified as a
collector even going out into the ETJ

785
01:08:54,960 --> 01:09:03,199
it's again a natural continuation
of the roadway

786
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:07,920
coming through the old one
>> it does

787
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:11,920
right through there [clears throat]
built bunch of houses thereatunately

788
01:09:09,679 --> 01:09:18,000
these are driveways along there. It's
not a reserve reverse backyard.

789
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:21,679
» Ideally, in a perfect world, you would
have say people are coming to to the

790
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:26,000
schools. They would come if they're
coming from the southside, they'd come

791
01:09:22,799 --> 01:09:30,480
up and come up.
This would collect people from interior

792
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:33,880
onto these collected
>> as opposed to

793
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:38,560
like this.
>> Now, whether or not people use it that

794
01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:42,560
way is one thing or another. There's
things construction

795
01:09:40,799 --> 01:09:47,520
you know, all kinds of other things that
will deter people from taking tradition.

796
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:54,159
» If we're going to do a collector here
and this path makes the most sense, but

797
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:58,000
may not be necessarily the best route,
>> right?

798
01:09:54,800 --> 01:10:05,640
» It might not be the safest route either.
>> Well, I could pedestrian and potential

799
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,640
auto pedestrian interactions.

800
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:18,239
quick question
>> on using I know semis in schools don't

801
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:25,440
is there any precedent for time of use
and speed limitations so you can use

802
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:29,840
divert any semis down pojo during this
time window at 20 miles an hour is all

803
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:33,760
they're allowed to move and just enforce
the heck out of the speed limit thing

804
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:37,920
but that way it sends a portion of it
during certain times of the day and

805
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:41,960
keeps it off of the other roads or does
that not help?

806
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:51,280
» California does it statewide 55 period
if you have more than two axles on the

807
01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:55,920
ground.
>> There are mechanisms to have truck only

808
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:59,440
speed limits on state roadways. So that
that is a possibility.

809
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:04,239
» I guess what I was understanding you to
say was reduce them during reduce their

810
01:11:01,679 --> 01:11:09,360
speed during a certain time of day.
anytime they get on that roadway, unless

811
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:13,360
school's out and then out, they're
limited to 25 miles an hour, 20 miles an

812
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:18,560
hour, which is so if we do something
like that, first of all, we got to make

813
01:11:14,719 --> 01:11:24,120
sure it to state traffic law and uniform
traffic

814
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:24,120
control.

815
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:32,159
However, I would say if we do something
like that, they'll start trying to put

816
01:11:30,239 --> 01:11:36,080
times on
it's going to be mph

817
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:39,520
24 hours.
>> I agree with that. But the window of

818
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:42,719
use, they can use it x time to x time.
They can't use it during school release.

819
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:46,560
» I don't think I don't think they'd be
able to legally do that because they

820
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:50,159
have the right to move their product.
>> Well, 51's still open during school

821
01:11:48,159 --> 01:11:54,719
hours. They just couldn't use that cut
across during school or during school.

822
01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:58,239
» If they were limited, truckers are
always going to take the route of least

823
01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:01,320
resistance. So if there's limitations on
the road

824
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,880
» okay so here this is an imaginary
collector

825
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:17,960
» section that doesn't exist
>> and that is specifically to avoid these

826
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,960
driveways here right

827
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:22,679
» this is an east west

828
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:29,360
» exist before
>> so this does exist right here this road

829
01:12:27,199 --> 01:12:33,760
But that design existed before those
homes were there.

830
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:36,560
» These are not even 5 years old.
>> Okay. So practically people are using

831
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:41,760
this.
>> Correct.

832
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:45,520
» Just take this around here. Cut through
here. Widen Third Street which has

833
01:12:44,239 --> 01:12:48,239
» much more rightway.
>> Yeah.

834
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:51,440
» And the ability to obtain more rightway
and take it back through here.

835
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:57,760
» Yeah.
>> And then you also school which is the

836
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:57,760
most important.

837
01:12:59,920 --> 01:13:03,400
Just take it

838
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:12,640
like that to make them go. You know,
they're trying to travel east, but we're

839
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:17,679
going to drop them down, make them go,
and then make them come back.

840
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:21,560
Is that how we would typically see it?
>> Unless they want to do this.

841
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:34,719
We can explore some other options. The
main thing is getting more borders from

842
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:39,159
east to west, right? That's that's the
main goal, right?

843
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,560
» Probably

844
01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:59,840
are not significantly different.
Do you want traffic through here.

845
01:13:58,159 --> 01:14:03,679
» But then once you get here, you either
got to go north,

846
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:08,400
» right?
>> Yeah.

847
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:12,800
» So this is not this is not the word.
It's where do you go from this corner?

848
01:14:11,199 --> 01:14:18,040
If you bring it here, where do you go
from here? You have people go up or

849
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:18,040
down.

850
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:31,199
um flood plane.
>> So guys, let's go back and look at that

851
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:39,199
again,
>> right? And and see the pros and cons to

852
01:14:35,199 --> 01:14:42,880
that. We don't mind doing that.
Again, the overall goal is to gain east

853
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:48,280
and west access. That's the
>> Yeah,

854
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:48,280
» it upross

855
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:56,640
these are just
as here's how we think traffic is going

856
01:14:53,679 --> 01:15:00,560
to roadways. It's not that you're saying
we are definitely putting road.

857
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:06,320
» Well, yes and no because it it is that
is what you're saying. But as land

858
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:11,280
develops, just like we did here and we
did here, we required the developer to

859
01:15:09,199 --> 01:15:15,800
build that section of the road.
>> But when there

860
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:23,080
is about 11 years old,
And so

861
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:36,679
» there was nothing in the subdivision or
that allowed us to

862
01:15:33,679 --> 01:15:36,679
requ

863
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:56,239
But the street itself is the correct
width.

864
01:15:54,000 --> 01:16:01,520
» The issue that M's bringing up is that
the driveways back into as opposed to

865
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:07,159
hammerhead out of that nature. So that's
that's the issue

866
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:07,159
» or it could have been the subdivision

867
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,440
could have been

868
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:22,880
» but we can't go back and reverse the So
the question is what do we do here right

869
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:28,800
this is how it's currently designed
right so that's something I think we

870
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:36,719
need to probably go back and look at
the same issue

871
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:39,920
as well this area is the exact same
>> very very similar

872
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:44,440
» and then you got that jaw right there
that's going to slow track down at least

873
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:51,080
» which
would require

874
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:51,080
design

875
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,400
45

876
01:16:58,239 --> 01:17:04,199
based subdivisions either except

877
01:17:04,719 --> 01:17:07,719
» well

878
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:19,679
I don't know what the answer is tonight
I don't find an answer

879
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:23,920
Well,
this

880
01:17:21,199 --> 01:17:30,800
blue
is these are county this is county

881
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:35,600
that's county that's counties right
we have to have their they have to fill

882
01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:40,159
these needs
>> these things happen then this is less

883
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:45,120
significant we have we need this to
happen we need some east west in the

884
01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:49,040
middle of town but when these come to
exist

885
01:17:46,239 --> 01:17:53,120
There's going to be some relief.
>> That's also the road that has the signal

886
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:55,600
access to
>> this one.

887
01:17:53,679 --> 01:18:00,480
» No.
>> Oh, gotcha.

888
01:17:58,159 --> 01:18:03,480
Which is important.
>> Y

889
01:18:03,679 --> 01:18:10,719
I'm sorry. I may say street.
>> This is us.

890
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:16,640
» This This is us.
>> This is the green is is minor artery.

891
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:21,760
» So what is This is the city limit.
>> Yeah, it might just be

892
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:24,640
» No, that's
>> this says spring city limits is this

893
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:31,040
color.
>> So I thought maybe this was count

894
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:36,080
» that section. I'm sorry.
>> This the county has talked to us about

895
01:18:34,719 --> 01:18:40,400
taking over this road sometime in the
future.

896
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:47,640
» And that's not the only instance of
something like that. If you look here

897
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:47,640
took that road

898
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:51,560
» to get to this

899
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:57,400
Yorkenver.

900
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:11,560
» They did. If you drive further up, they
overlaid some of it. So we just

901
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:21,880
do

902
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:36,960
» rather the county fix it now.
>> Oh certainly. And that that's the

903
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:40,840
conversations that we're having here is
that we want them to

904
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,800
» take over.

905
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:05,320
So what's what's the traffic in this
section here?

906
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:12,840
Yeah, I would say that's pretty
accurate.

907
01:20:23,440 --> 01:20:26,600
» I'm sorry.

908
01:20:27,199 --> 01:20:34,120
» These people here are going to go this
way.

909
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:34,120
» So, they're probably

910
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:37,880
I would say

911
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:41,080
» West.

912
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:50,600
» So unless there's a traffic back up
here.

913
01:20:52,159 --> 01:21:01,360
» I I would think
subdivision builds here. I think it's I

914
01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:05,440
think it might be a big split. They do
go this way. This is where they need to

915
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:10,239
be this way because they want to get
down. It's just hard to say.

916
01:21:08,719 --> 01:21:16,120
» And then if that develops the way we've
talked about in the past, there's going

917
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:16,120
to be very little traffic.

918
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:30,679
This is this is not often traveled area.
So neighborhoods like there's not a lot

919
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,679
of traffic.

920
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:39,760
I think if that even if that were to go
through that neighborhood and I'm here,

921
01:21:38,159 --> 01:21:42,719
I'm probably still going to go that way.
>> Yes.

922
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:45,199
» Because of the fear of what bottleneck
is going to be,

923
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:49,520
» right?
>> Officially it's 20. What's the speed

924
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:54,440
limit for local roads?
>> We've also got 20 miles hour.

925
01:21:56,560 --> 01:22:02,080
We have 20 miles hour
>> local. Doesn't the state just make it

926
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:06,639
easier for us to lower?
>> The state just passed a law this last

927
01:22:04,159 --> 01:22:10,639
legislative session that allow cities to
lower internal speed limits to a certain

928
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:15,679
degree. Otherwise, you had to do this
whole 85th percentile study in order for

929
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:23,679
that to happen. We have not lowered any
of our news. We have not yet.

930
01:22:21,440 --> 01:22:29,520
So in terms of the throw for a plan when
the county is working on the county's

931
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:34,080
side, we need this to have been updated,
not necessarily changed.

932
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:37,280
» It just needs to have been approved by
this committee

933
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:39,520
because they're going to ask for our
thoroughare plan.

934
01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:43,840
» Ultimately, it'll be approved by the
council.

935
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:47,760
» Yeah, sure. But
the Parker County thorough affair

936
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:52,400
committee meets midepptember
>> which is before the council

937
01:22:50,639 --> 01:22:53,600
» but we can take this information
>> yes

938
01:22:52,719 --> 01:22:57,120
» to them then
>> and they've seen this they they have

939
01:22:55,440 --> 01:22:59,520
seen the county has seen this
>> right but they haven't seen what we've

940
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:02,960
talked about because we're not talking
about it till now. Yeah, that's that was

941
01:23:01,679 --> 01:23:07,920
we were going to have this meeting and
then I'm [clears throat] gonna provide

942
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:12,080
these change or whatever we decide on
and then he's going to take them and he

943
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:16,880
told me he would get a draft of the
county's plan to me for review sometime

944
01:23:14,239 --> 01:23:21,840
early September. He didn't want us to
have it because commissioners had fully

945
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:25,920
reviewed it. So, and that's when I can
fill this out a little bit more to

946
01:23:23,199 --> 01:23:31,440
reflect their plan. We can compare
specifically if there's any arterials

947
01:23:28,239 --> 01:23:36,320
you look like higher than what they have
maybe like 51 I think they have as a

948
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:40,800
minor and then
or if there's just a really certain

949
01:23:39,199 --> 01:23:46,000
circumstance where you think okay this
alignment does not work or something

950
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:50,400
else and that's a conversation with them
to update their plan or they're just

951
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:55,679
showing different
So yeah, so on that note, I think it's

952
01:23:52,159 --> 01:24:00,600
important that we point out
rather than signal propos,

953
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:13,159
but the ang that intersection is make it
more

954
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:13,159
proper than it would

955
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:21,760
intersection. We're going to have to
rebuild some of the road alignments into

956
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:25,199
the intersection.
>> It's also a lot more expensive.

957
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:30,159
» It is a lot. Yes.
>> Now, we we did a single warrant study

958
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:35,920
years ago and it warrants some type of
intersection improvement and you seen

959
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:42,520
our current plan. It's roundabout city.
Every intersection is a roundabout.

960
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:42,520
We're not suggesting we go back to that.

961
01:24:42,719 --> 01:24:48,080
» I think that's a roundabout.
>> You think it should be?

962
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:51,320
» No, I think it's that's the Parker
County plan.

963
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:57,679
» That's their plan.
>> Maybe. I can't I don't recall. I don't

964
01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:02,239
talk about that intersection when he was
here. I know with certainty that that's

965
01:25:00,159 --> 01:25:09,719
what they
talked about the last meeting but most

966
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:09,719
places are going towards a lot

967
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:16,000
» but this is a light
>> you get the traffic going one direction

968
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:20,480
though and you're sitting there on the
side and you can't get in

969
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:23,280
» it ain't it ain't working I promise you
>> only

970
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:28,080
heard that wasn't going to be
>> I said it it's a light intersection

971
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:32,960
improvement so It could [clears throat]
be straighten up the straighten up the

972
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:38,440
approach of the road
>> because that ramp is gross

973
01:25:35,199 --> 01:25:38,440
» that incline.

974
01:25:39,199 --> 01:25:43,239
» So it's not necessarily light. It's just

975
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:47,880
» I think they're going to build

976
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:57,320
» and

977
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:03,120
spills over here.
>> And where was that?

978
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:07,760
» J Woody and 51.
>> Talking to the county J Woody and Ocean.

979
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:12,560
Is that the other one that goes?
>> Um I think the county's intention is to

980
01:26:10,639 --> 01:26:17,440
try to get a lot of traffic going east
to west on those. The struggle with that

981
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:21,360
is both those dead in on 51 or 199. So
it's just going to dump more traffic

982
01:26:18,719 --> 01:26:26,560
right into Springtown versus getting
>> the intersection go

983
01:26:24,159 --> 01:26:30,600
199. Yeah. Why would you call it an
intersection? It's just a multiple

984
01:26:30,719 --> 01:26:36,400
» way. So in other areas of the county, if
their intention is to get people off

985
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:40,920
onto those roads, then that would
inherently make worse.

986
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:49,360
I think the hope is for [clears throat]
people coming from the south that are

987
01:26:46,719 --> 01:26:54,880
going to head west that they go around
here. But more importantly, the people

988
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:59,840
coming from the west to the east instead
of stop to stop sign.

989
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:04,000
I think they're going to Are they going
to widen this?

990
01:27:01,679 --> 01:27:06,800
» That's a million dollar question.
>> It depends on which which day you talk

991
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:11,040
to,
>> right?

992
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:12,719
» We learned that was the new plan.
proposal

993
01:27:11,679 --> 01:27:17,679
» rather than this one.
>> Yes, that was our reaction is that if

994
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:22,080
they're going to propose dumping that
amount of traffic on that road, they're

995
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:25,920
going to have to do something or it's
not going to

996
01:27:24,719 --> 01:27:32,719
» and so let me give you the freezing
nickels response. We'll check into that.

997
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:38,000
Right? So, so the answer is we don't
know. We have told them straight out of

998
01:27:35,679 --> 01:27:45,600
our mouths that it needs to be wiped,
right? And we advocate for that

999
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:48,760
except for this section right here on
our road.

1000
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:57,440
Honestly, the decision to jump to I I
know it was cost decision but to avoid

1001
01:27:53,920 --> 01:28:01,280
this probably reduces that effectiveness
by at least 50%. Because people would

1002
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:04,280
have been much more likely to take that
go

1003
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:18,440
This was very
>> fantast.

1004
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:37,199
» So, back to this piece. I know I I
completely understand the worry about 18

1005
01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:42,600
wheelers passing at least three schools.
But

1006
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:42,600
if you drive to any

1007
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:49,440
a lot of our school, a lot of schools in
our little part of the world are very

1008
01:28:47,679 --> 01:28:54,560
close to a thoroughare because that
makes it easy, pick up, drop off. And

1009
01:28:52,719 --> 01:28:59,679
when this was built, high school was
built, we didn't have the traffic we

1010
01:28:56,239 --> 01:29:04,320
have now. But if this were a 30
all the time. Unless it's a school pick

1011
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:08,880
up or drop off when it drops to 20,
right?

1012
01:29:06,639 --> 01:29:13,360
Those 18 wheelers going down the road,
other than the fact they can't stop as

1013
01:29:10,400 --> 01:29:18,600
fast, but it's that's not that's not
faster than traffic.

1014
01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:18,600
» So, yeah. So, the only

1015
01:29:19,440 --> 01:29:28,880
different
reason

1016
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:34,080
that is us
to them that we need to figure out how

1017
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:39,760
to regulate like
how to regulate that traffic better on

1018
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:44,239
pojo. It's an absolute alternative and
frankly it's the best alternative we got

1019
01:29:42,159 --> 01:29:49,360
because they come south on 51 they hang
right on pojo come back out to 199 and

1020
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:53,520
vice versa right it's it's a great
alternative the question textile hasn't

1021
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:59,520
been able to tell us and we haven't been
able to handle yet exactly how much of

1022
01:29:56,000 --> 01:30:03,920
the 18 number one how much of
We don't have those accounts we can give

1023
01:30:02,159 --> 01:30:09,520
him but we don't have them right now.
Second of all, uh

1024
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:14,239
what kind of
what kind of

1025
01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:17,239
refuding are we going to get school
district?

1026
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:29,280
» Well, and I think what makes a small
difference to some of the situations you

1027
01:30:25,679 --> 01:30:35,760
were describing is that you have
pedestrian traffic on the north stadium.

1028
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:41,280
And I think that is probably a huge
factor.

1029
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:46,719
Is there a way to eliminate or mitigate
the safety concerns of kids physically

1030
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:50,880
walking across the road when we're
putting additional traffic

1031
01:30:48,480 --> 01:30:58,560
» flashing signs on both entrance or both
end of the road 3:00 to 5:00 you can't

1032
01:30:55,199 --> 01:31:01,760
» must go 51. I mean, I don't I don't know
if that's legal. You talking about

1033
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:03,520
prohibit them from being there during
those times? I think that's what you're

1034
01:31:03,199 --> 01:31:09,600
talking.
>> No, that's I wasn't at all suggesting

1035
01:31:06,320 --> 01:31:14,600
that we dictate that they take that.
>> It wasn't I wasn't saying close this to

1036
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:14,600
18

1037
01:31:14,639 --> 01:31:21,679
if that's an option to go this way.
Let's just slow it down. Right.

1038
01:31:19,199 --> 01:31:30,800
» So, let's slow it down.
>> The other thing that just transparency

1039
01:31:26,400 --> 01:31:34,960
the text on that thing is if the city
would allow them to make that a truck

1040
01:31:33,199 --> 01:31:39,520
route.
There is a possibility that could

1041
01:31:36,480 --> 01:31:45,199
actually become a spur where textile
becomes the required maintainer of that.

1042
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:49,600
And the conversation that we've had with
text is they would take this on as a

1043
01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:53,920
spur
and relinquish this spur back to the

1044
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:58,000
city and the city takes control of all
the first

1045
01:31:55,760 --> 01:32:02,800
question. If you have no through truck
signs all over the place, what would be

1046
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:05,679
different than doing no truck through
during a time window?

1047
01:32:04,239 --> 01:32:08,800
» So, what's the difference?
>> The difference is the types of streets,

1048
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:11,960
right? You can do no go through trucks
for reser

1049
01:32:13,040 --> 01:32:17,280
can't travel on resial street unless
it's got point of delivery or point of

1050
01:32:16,239 --> 01:32:21,920
pickup,
>> right? West Air is a good example. They

1051
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:29,199
come up second street all the time, but
they can legally do that. But

1052
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:35,679
moving somebody from Nevada out to Texas
can't cut up through our residential

1053
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:40,320
street unless they have a destination
>> we have

1054
01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:45,520
train
>> right so

1055
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:53,280
and honestly guys tell you I'd have to
go back I'd have to look at state laws

1056
01:32:49,440 --> 01:32:56,239
changes every two years right at a whim
most of the

1057
01:32:54,560 --> 01:33:00,719
But we don't have to go back to see what
laws are existing right now to regulate

1058
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:04,239
that type of traffic certain times of
days

1059
01:33:02,239 --> 01:33:10,199
or whatever it may be. It's certainly an
alternative.

1060
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:10,199
So is the guiding idea

1061
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:22,000
is to get the heavy truck traffic out of
the center of the square.

1062
01:33:20,239 --> 01:33:26,320
» So the center of the square becomes
becomes more walkable and more more

1063
01:33:25,440 --> 01:33:30,639
» more user friendly.
>> User friendly more tourist attraction

1064
01:33:28,159 --> 01:33:36,880
type
>> I mean that's what Grand took it all

1065
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:40,239
out. They have a lot more
And I'm working with at least four other

1066
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:43,440
cities right now that we're dealing with
the exact same issue of trying to get

1067
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:49,920
truck traffic out of the square onto a
truck. Some of those have truck routes

1068
01:33:46,159 --> 01:33:55,280
that promise years and they're not. But
the challenge is y'all

1069
01:33:52,159 --> 01:34:01,679
don't have a clear route right now. I
would say could be but it's not a clear

1070
01:33:58,080 --> 01:34:05,679
truck in my mind. Williams is a long way
from being wide enough to take The

1071
01:34:04,480 --> 01:34:11,679
bridge along.
>> Yeah. So

1072
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:15,679
» the bridge is going to have to be
widened

1073
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:19,920
» at some point anyway even if this is not
right.

1074
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:25,120
» City about nine years ago. Same thing
with county commissioners at the time

1075
01:34:22,159 --> 01:34:31,639
» and he didn't his way then either. So
when I moved here that was a little

1076
01:34:27,440 --> 01:34:31,639
bridge and now it's just

1077
01:34:32,480 --> 01:34:39,520
now it's just a little bridge. Say rent.
>> But when they did it, why did they go

1078
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:43,679
ahead and allow for that
>> while you're there?

1079
01:34:40,480 --> 01:34:46,880
» Somebody in this room asked a question.
>> By the time it got built, it was

1080
01:34:45,199 --> 01:34:51,520
obsolete.
>> I don't know. That's like saying

1081
01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:58,120
it was too crowded to begin with.
>> This is extension

1082
01:34:54,159 --> 01:34:58,120
right along the creek.

1083
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:06,520
» So the county proposed
third or something, but it was

1084
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:06,520
multiple

1085
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:21,880
» one
as opposed to three or four

1086
01:35:25,199 --> 01:35:34,080
» it's pretty low
>> a consideration is right now we do have

1087
01:35:30,480 --> 01:35:39,520
limited roads that the creek. And so in
the event of some type of evacuation,

1088
01:35:36,080 --> 01:35:43,199
natural disaster, if those are impacted,
not usable, then that to number is

1089
01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:49,520
reduced. So you're going to see
significantly higher levels of traffic

1090
01:35:45,760 --> 01:35:55,280
and potential emergency. And so you do
want to plan for additional

1091
01:35:53,360 --> 01:35:59,600
evacuation routes, for lack of better
terms, that you're not relying on the

1092
01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:03,320
same
street, 51,

1093
01:36:05,440 --> 01:36:10,840
I mean that's
also crosses

1094
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:16,920
and so it doesn't take much

1095
01:36:24,639 --> 01:36:27,639
emergency.

1096
01:36:31,040 --> 01:36:37,040
Have we had this without a commission in
the last

1097
01:36:34,480 --> 01:36:40,920
» not in the last 10 years that I've seen
>> which the one

1098
01:36:44,239 --> 01:36:50,960
» did it did it?
>> Yeah. When it flooded

1099
01:36:47,679 --> 01:36:57,600
in 05 and that that bridge was of course
it was a little bridge then

1100
01:36:54,800 --> 01:37:04,440
bridge. Yeah. It was over.
>> Yeah. It has not it that bridge has not

1101
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:04,440
flooded since I've been here. Street has

1102
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:15,239
» the improvements to 51. That was one
raising the bridge.

1103
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:33,440
It's not as
>> this one is not this is this has

1104
01:37:30,080 --> 01:37:40,560
clearance there.
this. So this could be

1105
01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:47,040
» so the reality is
this route

1106
01:37:44,400 --> 01:37:50,199
stream makes sense
down there.

1107
01:37:50,400 --> 01:37:55,639
The true issue is this right.

1108
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:03,119
You all have to tell us which one.
>> Can we draw something? What were we

1109
01:38:00,080 --> 01:38:10,639
thinking here and widening third and
then back up this way at some point?

1110
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:15,360
» You said this way that way.
>> So just

1111
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:22,560
playing devil's advocate here.
If we turn this this way

1112
01:38:19,119 --> 01:38:27,280
and this residential community changes
over the next two to three years. How

1113
01:38:24,880 --> 01:38:33,000
many of these people
this way to go all the way out this way?

1114
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:43,520
So it goes back it goes back to
what

1115
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:51,280
what's the most peaceful route to get
people from point A to point B,

1116
01:38:46,719 --> 01:38:56,320
right? And does and of course the cost
involved in that because

1117
01:38:53,520 --> 01:39:00,639
developers build this, we would have to
build this,

1118
01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:07,119
» right? And we would have to build this.
>> You have to acquire that property too.

1119
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:10,159
Yes. And that property I have been told
pastors have changed.

1120
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:15,199
» First Baptist,
>> but I've been told by the previous

1121
01:39:11,679 --> 01:39:21,920
pastor that that property they probably
never sell. I don't know why the same

1122
01:39:18,159 --> 01:39:28,760
way or not. But any improvements from
this point here

1123
01:39:24,159 --> 01:39:28,760
this way down here

1124
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:34,239
will be the city's responsibility.
Whereas this

1125
01:39:35,840 --> 01:39:43,600
I want to keep I have another question.
>> We thought about future commercial

1126
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:47,840
development affecting traffic patterns.
So where's everybody going at the peak

1127
01:39:45,679 --> 01:39:52,159
times? Everybody's dumping on the 51.
Are they all heading to Brookers? Does

1128
01:39:50,159 --> 01:39:55,199
development of another grocery store on
the other side of town alleviate some of

1129
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:57,520
that 5:00 traffic because they're not
all trying to get to the same grocery

1130
01:39:56,400 --> 01:40:02,400
store?
>> Fixing our actual roads we have. So

1131
01:40:00,480 --> 01:40:08,080
everyone's taking the same roads to get
on 51. Well, if all the connectors were

1132
01:40:06,480 --> 01:40:11,920
not potholed and things like that, the
traffic I mean it's ones and twos. It's

1133
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:14,960
small, but they're diverting out.
They're taking their own path instead of

1134
01:40:13,679 --> 01:40:19,360
well, we know this road's nice and we
can go right over to 51. That's what's

1135
01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:27,199
bottlenecking all those areas. So, all
of the internal streets being

1136
01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:30,560
clean, nicer, easier to traverse, more
places to go on the other side of town

1137
01:40:29,199 --> 01:40:34,480
so everyone's not heading the same
direction. Do we really want to? You see

1138
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:38,080
towns die. Springtown's big enough.
We're a modern era. Probably not going

1139
01:40:35,920 --> 01:40:41,760
to. But do we want to loop around town
where everyone's like, "I was going to

1140
01:40:39,679 --> 01:40:44,400
eat on the square, but it's out of the
way now."

1141
01:40:42,719 --> 01:40:47,760
» Do you want to send people away from all
of our You see towns die like this a

1142
01:40:46,639 --> 01:40:52,480
lot. Take a road trip.
>> Well, and and I don't disagree with you.

1143
01:40:50,159 --> 01:40:55,360
So, what we do to combat that sever
several things, and this is I want to

1144
01:40:53,920 --> 01:41:00,719
give you a real
>> 50sec

1145
01:40:56,960 --> 01:41:05,679
» clip of it. If we move traffic, we
traffic. The only intent of that traffic

1146
01:41:03,199 --> 01:41:09,920
will be truck traffic. So that it will
allow for a more pedestrian friendly

1147
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:14,960
» area which actually will drive
businesses up in the

1148
01:41:13,920 --> 01:41:18,719
» Yeah. But if you have a loop around
town, if unless it says trucks only, I'm

1149
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:22,400
hopping on it because I'm tired of
sitting on my truck. I've been

1150
01:41:21,040 --> 01:41:24,080
» Well, yeah. But
>> so

1151
01:41:23,040 --> 01:41:28,239
» I'm not passing by. I'm not
>> I'm just tell you that traditionally if

1152
01:41:26,320 --> 01:41:32,719
if you don't see a problem with people
shopping in Granberry Square, Right. But

1153
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:37,360
you don't see trucks very
>> right. So as our square develops, right?

1154
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:41,760
And and one of the tasks the council's
given me in the past is to make the

1155
01:41:39,679 --> 01:41:45,520
square more walkable. That's what we're
working on, right? That's why you see

1156
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:50,400
food trucks and that's why you see
you're going to see a mural soon. Those

1157
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:54,880
type of things, things that make it more
people shade out there.

1158
01:41:52,320 --> 01:42:01,520
» But shade would be nice. Yes.
>> But but when

1159
01:41:58,239 --> 01:42:06,639
» our square just like City square is a
point of destination. It is not it's not

1160
01:42:04,719 --> 01:42:10,400
a point of travel. In other words,
people will come to the square just

1161
01:42:08,239 --> 01:42:14,960
because they want to come to the square.
They'll come there because dining,

1162
01:42:12,639 --> 01:42:19,199
entertainment, whatever we've got going
on, Christmas stuff, they're going to

1163
01:42:16,480 --> 01:42:23,119
come to the square because squares and
you chime in here, you've done a lot of

1164
01:42:20,639 --> 01:42:29,600
it. And Jason Clunch, who is probably
the most downtown square planner I know,

1165
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:33,119
will tell you that your destination
point what you want to try to keep out

1166
01:42:31,440 --> 01:42:38,960
of the square but those who do not have
the desire to to stop that would be your

1167
01:42:36,480 --> 01:42:42,960
18 you keep your car traffic coming
through there they may come through what

1168
01:42:41,199 --> 01:42:46,639
sent you that sounds good let's stop
there right but if they're stuck behind

1169
01:42:45,119 --> 01:42:50,560
18 for 20 minutes trying to get through
the square they're going to go no let's

1170
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:55,679
head on down the road so square town
squares in any city should be

1171
01:42:53,440 --> 01:42:59,520
destination point
I'm not making fun of my neighbors the

1172
01:42:57,119 --> 01:43:04,000
south many Did you see the Weatherford
Square just be

1173
01:43:01,920 --> 01:43:07,600
right. When I first moved to
Weatherford, it was desolate. I remember

1174
01:43:06,320 --> 01:43:13,040
going to the square as a kid watching
Batman movies on movies,

1175
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:15,920
right? Weatherford finally said, "You
know what? This should be a destination

1176
01:43:14,719 --> 01:43:21,280
point." and what happened from that
point, business improvements,

1177
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:24,320
activities, things that so
I wouldn't worry about truck traffic

1178
01:43:23,119 --> 01:43:28,080
coming off the square because your
square if done correctly

1179
01:43:26,639 --> 01:43:31,760
correctly is going to be best. The other
thing that we talked about this last

1180
01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:37,199
about 50 seconds is we will at some
point once we figure out how to do it,

1181
01:43:34,880 --> 01:43:41,600
we'll be putting up way finding signs.
So that will direct people into the

1182
01:43:39,119 --> 01:43:45,760
square, right? A restaurant for dining
for things that way finding signs will

1183
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:48,639
help get them
I'm up to about three times a week. Oh,

1184
01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:50,960
we never we've been out here four or
five years. We didn't know you were over

1185
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:56,520
here.
>> Four days a week. That happens.

1186
01:43:52,480 --> 01:43:56,520
» Yeah, exactly. And that's all

1187
01:44:05,199 --> 01:44:08,199
I

1188
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:16,239
kind of pitch on squares is that squares
are destination points.

1189
01:44:14,639 --> 01:44:20,119
tourist points, right? So, you got to
figure out how to pull them

1190
01:44:20,239 --> 01:44:25,600
» and people are going to be more likely
to stop in the square. They're not

1191
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:29,719
already soggated by the time they get up
there in traffic.

1192
01:44:30,159 --> 01:44:35,960
» Yeah, I think for for the neighborhood
you can get to

1193
01:44:36,639 --> 01:44:41,040
that stupid crosswalk.
Yeah. And

1194
01:44:40,239 --> 01:44:44,000
» I'm telling you,
>> I'll add that text on this.

1195
01:44:42,880 --> 01:44:47,199
» You come out there with me. I'll take
you across. You hit that button and just

1196
01:44:45,920 --> 01:44:48,639
» That's funny because I went to the gun
store today,

1197
01:44:48,320 --> 01:44:50,880
» right?
>> Yeah.

1198
01:44:49,040 --> 01:44:54,239
» And I went I walked because I needed to
see if I could climb Paul Gregory and I

1199
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:59,760
went to the gun store today.
>> Push the button. Wait 15 seconds.

1200
01:44:58,159 --> 01:45:03,840
» And was able to get across.
>> Look each direction when you do it. If

1201
01:45:01,440 --> 01:45:06,960
there's more than two to four cars,
>> it takes a lot longer. If it's one or

1202
01:45:06,239 --> 01:45:10,639
two,
>> I'm just pleased it said wait to cross

1203
01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:13,360
first at 90, not wait to cross living at
Oak, right?

1204
01:45:11,199 --> 01:45:16,400
» It's only Tuesday,
it messes up once a week.

1205
01:45:15,119 --> 01:45:19,520
» Okay, Don, where do we need to go from
here? What do we need? What do you need

1206
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:22,159
from us? What do you need from this
group?

1207
01:45:20,480 --> 01:45:26,639
» Uh, so I think from here, I'm going to
go back and make edits to the land map.

1208
01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:30,560
I can put some variations of thares on
here and probably bring it back to you.

1209
01:45:29,199 --> 01:45:36,400
We have a better idea of the county's
plan. Um, if the county plan doesn't

1210
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:40,080
come out until the hall then we'll have
this as an option and then you know

1211
01:45:38,719 --> 01:45:45,199
leave it open to discussion for the
public. Um I think the next item on the

1212
01:45:42,560 --> 01:45:50,320
agenda is just a town hall. So we're
planning to run that with a presentation

1213
01:45:46,719 --> 01:45:55,760
of the draft plans like 75% draft plan
and then again stations. We'll have some

1214
01:45:52,400 --> 01:46:00,880
more downtown and park specific stations
and of course we'll have the land use

1215
01:45:56,960 --> 01:46:04,880
map and the map. Um, and that's tally
scheduled for the 15th unless anyone in

1216
01:46:02,719 --> 01:46:07,920
this group.
>> Yes.

1217
01:46:06,400 --> 01:46:12,360
» Yeah. I mean, if everybody in this room
is good, we'll start

1218
01:46:17,119 --> 01:46:20,920
with 15. Anybody

1219
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:28,280
» call

1220
01:46:29,280 --> 01:46:33,360
I'll just go eat.
>> Yeah.

1221
01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:39,040
» So, we might be going to Colorado.
>> The definition of these streets is

1222
01:46:36,239 --> 01:46:44,080
» local collector does have influence in
in our ordinances,

1223
01:46:40,639 --> 01:46:48,800
» you know. So, how are you categorizing
these width, by

1224
01:46:47,280 --> 01:46:55,239
» Yeah, we can pull whatever's in the
ordinance specifically. That was just

1225
01:46:50,960 --> 01:46:55,239
generalized based on what I

1226
01:46:56,719 --> 01:47:01,480
ultimately do with the county.

1227
01:47:02,239 --> 01:47:09,000
» Yeah. Because I think in some areas
there will be some that are specific to

1228
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:09,000
collectors.

1229
01:47:12,239 --> 01:47:19,360
» So before we leave, what what are we
going to explore here?

1230
01:47:17,119 --> 01:47:24,239
» I was a dotted line or something.
>> Yeah. I was going to say we can put a an

1231
01:47:21,119 --> 01:47:31,600
alternate uh route on there and have it
as a discussion town hall if you want.

1232
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:35,880
Usually people are going to take this
street by experience

1233
01:47:36,159 --> 01:47:41,480
taking kids to school. So you're already
going

1234
01:47:44,719 --> 01:47:49,560
to be flying through their neighborhood.

1235
01:47:52,800 --> 01:48:01,840
But that's that's to avoid 51. So the
school traffic's not adding 51. They're

1236
01:47:58,560 --> 01:48:06,880
trying to to get out of
work.

1237
01:48:03,440 --> 01:48:12,239
That's just from experience.
I mean, I live on a dead end street and

1238
01:48:09,840 --> 01:48:14,320
there's cars that I know that aren't our
neighborhood.

1239
01:48:12,880 --> 01:48:18,119
» We're the busiest dead street.
>> We are so busy.

1240
01:48:18,320 --> 01:48:24,719
» They fly like 45 miles down that street
for practice.

1241
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:31,280
» For practice.
They parked in the old Yale parking lot

1242
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:35,920
» where Yale used to be
>> I'm not kidding 50 miles and so it's a

1243
01:48:33,920 --> 01:48:40,400
straight shot and you can't see
>> because it's a hill. So I mean

1244
01:48:38,400 --> 01:48:43,840
» we don't we don't have that luxury
either. People are going to drive

1245
01:48:41,679 --> 01:48:48,400
because they're going to point and
honestly mom and dad don't want to go

1246
01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:53,280
down.
I would take this street. I always take

1247
01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:56,520
this to get to middle school.
high school

1248
01:48:56,639 --> 01:49:05,960
people are trying to go from across the
city and not just

1249
01:49:02,480 --> 01:49:05,960
they're going to find

1250
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:09,880
» and they're probably

1251
01:49:18,960 --> 01:49:21,960
not

1252
01:49:22,719 --> 01:49:31,440
routine of the kids crossing the streets
in the morning off of Pojo at 6:50 6:45

1253
01:49:27,520 --> 01:49:37,960
in the morning when it's time you can't
see them so extra flashlight making sure

1254
01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:37,960
those kids cross

1255
01:49:38,719 --> 01:49:44,600
» I think you were mentioning that early
morning

1256
01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:58,719
» let us get our heads together with
something else here. But again, we can

1257
01:49:57,119 --> 01:50:01,920
» I don't know that this is a better route
either.

1258
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:06,719
» Well, because of all the traffic, I
mean, this is two times a day. This is

1259
01:50:04,400 --> 01:50:11,280
not draw.
>> Yeah. And all you're going to do is, you

1260
01:50:09,440 --> 01:50:16,960
know, exacerbate the problem more
traffic down to it. Right. And so, I

1261
01:50:15,280 --> 01:50:22,960
understand what your neighbor's concerns
are, right? I do. I just don't know.

1262
01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:26,400
» Right. So the other that is the other
option is

1263
01:50:24,560 --> 01:50:29,719
» six, right?
>> It's an option.

1264
01:50:33,280 --> 01:50:40,560
» I don't know how many of you ever driven
an 18wheeler, but I have. And I would

1265
01:50:38,480 --> 01:50:46,159
not want to drive through a residential
neighborhood unless I absolutely had to.

1266
01:50:44,800 --> 01:50:50,639
» I would take Pojo
>> unless they built it

1267
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:56,239
» because it's built wide enough.
good solid road. And that's to me that's

1268
01:50:54,239 --> 01:51:02,880
the only
the only one that we we have presently

1269
01:51:00,080 --> 01:51:06,880
that could handle trucks if we wanted to
get them off the square. So there's

1270
01:51:04,320 --> 01:51:14,560
nothing further south than a truck used
to go up there.

1271
01:51:10,960 --> 01:51:20,000
» And it goes back to what I said earlier.
No matter what you do with the third

1272
01:51:16,080 --> 01:51:25,920
plan, you're not going to make everybody
because if we move it up here, all these

1273
01:51:23,280 --> 01:51:31,119
people move it down here, all these
people. So, I don't know what the

1274
01:51:29,119 --> 01:51:36,480
answers do and Christina and I, we'll
put our heads together and see what what

1275
01:51:34,320 --> 01:51:40,639
it may be. Just keep in mind when you're
working on masterfair plans, if it's a

1276
01:51:39,360 --> 01:51:44,239
new section of road that's going through
a development, that'll be the

1277
01:51:41,920 --> 01:51:48,000
developer's responsibility to build that
comes out of that development, it

1278
01:51:45,920 --> 01:51:51,599
becomes the city's responsibility,
right? So, we would be the ones having

1279
01:51:50,080 --> 01:51:54,639
duty to improve Third Street, which I
would

1280
01:51:52,800 --> 01:51:58,960
» I would not want to dump any more
traffic on Third Street as long as SCES

1281
01:51:57,760 --> 01:52:02,639
exits there, right?
>> And how many how many hours have we

1282
01:52:00,639 --> 01:52:05,440
spent school district trying to find a
way to expand that roadway to handle

1283
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:10,719
more traffic?
>> So, it's But I don't The answer is,

1284
01:52:08,719 --> 01:52:13,840
David, I don't know the answer. That's
the answer. I don't know. I don't know

1285
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:17,040
the answer.
Whereas

1286
01:52:15,360 --> 01:52:20,960
thoroughare
>> there's always

1287
01:52:18,960 --> 01:52:26,000
the last thoroughare plan that was done
prior what I commonly refer to as media

1288
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:31,040
which is before David 2012
>> 2011 I think it was

1289
01:52:29,199 --> 01:52:35,679
» 2016
>> so making people upset this was a

1290
01:52:34,159 --> 01:52:39,840
planned route
>> it has been a plan the only new portion

1291
01:52:38,159 --> 01:52:43,199
of this route develop correct me if I'm
wrong is this section here

1292
01:52:42,000 --> 01:52:46,719
» that's
in this.

1293
01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:49,360
» No, that's actually in the current.
>> Oh, it's in the plan, but it's not a

1294
01:52:48,320 --> 01:52:52,719
road.
>> It would be new construction, but it's

1295
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:56,000
been planned for
>> and this this is this is the part of the

1296
01:52:55,280 --> 01:52:57,760
new plan.
>> Yes.

1297
01:52:56,560 --> 01:53:01,040
» Right. So, take it all the way through
the project.

1298
01:52:59,199 --> 01:53:04,239
» Everything else exists.
>> So,

1299
01:53:02,560 --> 01:53:06,560
this is not going to be done unless a
developer does it.

1300
01:53:05,760 --> 01:53:09,599
» That's correct. Is that what I'm
hearing?

1301
01:53:07,360 --> 01:53:14,400
Unless unless it gets to the point that
the city has to relieve traffic

1302
01:53:11,119 --> 01:53:16,320
someplace, then we have to go in and and
build the road.

1303
01:53:15,199 --> 01:53:19,760
» Okay.
>> What would I can't think of anything

1304
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:23,760
that would cause traffic to become so
much greater in town that we would have

1305
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:27,360
to do this because
>> the only places the town's going to this

1306
01:53:25,760 --> 01:53:30,400
could grow in which case they'll be on
that road. This could grow. They'll be

1307
01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:33,360
over here.
>> This is not going to grow. This is

1308
01:53:32,080 --> 01:53:38,880
already built out
>> to go to schools. So what happens here

1309
01:53:36,080 --> 01:53:42,159
is is there's 32 acres sitting there
>> if it becomes a subdivision

1310
01:53:40,800 --> 01:53:44,719
» then the sub then that person's
responsible

1311
01:53:42,639 --> 01:53:48,639
» is responsible for completing or if it
becomes some other use that requires

1312
01:53:46,320 --> 01:53:53,760
that roadway to be completed then it
would be that developers responsible

1313
01:53:51,199 --> 01:53:56,960
» but in which if that doesn't if that's
not developed the city's not going to do

1314
01:53:55,920 --> 01:54:00,639
it
>> and nothing would force us to you said

1315
01:53:58,480 --> 01:54:05,760
if it if traffic came so bad that we had
to build it but what could possibly

1316
01:54:02,480 --> 01:54:11,440
happen would make The likelihood is I
always preface with you know anything

1317
01:54:07,679 --> 01:54:14,800
could happen. The likelihood of the city
having to complete that section of

1318
01:54:12,960 --> 01:54:18,760
roadway given our current growth
patterns is highly unlikely.

1319
01:54:19,040 --> 01:54:26,480
» I just can't see where where there would
be enough

1320
01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:32,520
growth that would force that to [snorts]
>> if it continues on the current plan

1321
01:54:29,520 --> 01:54:32,520
then

1322
01:54:32,960 --> 01:54:37,080
is this actually in the city

1323
01:54:38,239 --> 01:54:46,320
» to the east. So this should not be
>> we have spring but we don't have we're

1324
01:54:44,400 --> 01:54:51,760
not yeah this is not even
>> yeah none of that east

1325
01:54:48,159 --> 01:54:56,280
» so there's slight slivers of those and I
think I think he probably se

1326
01:55:01,119 --> 01:55:06,560
» if this were realized there are multiple
parcels here that would have to be

1327
01:55:04,639 --> 01:55:11,040
acquired by the city
>> for that

1328
01:55:08,159 --> 01:55:11,040
» required by developer

1329
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:18,080
So, we wouldn't build that either. It
would be a developer.

1330
01:55:15,440 --> 01:55:21,800
» This section's built.
>> This section's built.

1331
01:55:22,719 --> 01:55:29,440
» We didn't build either one of those
sections.

1332
01:55:25,280 --> 01:55:36,080
» That's kind of marshy right there.
>> But getting it there, getting it from

1333
01:55:32,320 --> 01:55:40,000
from here to there or to there will not
be our responsibility. will be the

1334
01:55:37,760 --> 01:55:43,000
developer responsibility,
right?

1335
01:55:45,840 --> 01:55:49,239
» So this is

1336
01:55:53,599 --> 01:55:57,480
» this is this right here.

1337
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:06,159
» So if this say a developer did build
here

1338
01:56:02,960 --> 01:56:09,599
» and put in that road and this doesn't
this

1339
01:56:07,119 --> 01:56:15,960
because of the challenges. Who's going
to cut through to get to this street?

1340
01:56:12,560 --> 01:56:15,960
» Very few people.

1341
01:56:17,760 --> 01:56:24,400
» Those people.
>> The flip side is if you don't have it on

1342
01:56:20,239 --> 01:56:29,440
the map, the developer came through,
>> right?

1343
01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:35,280
» So leaving it there is advantageous
really.

1344
01:56:32,320 --> 01:56:40,320
But this eventuality is not like
>> and also We go through the process of

1345
01:56:38,719 --> 01:56:46,320
the plan in its entirety. One of the
things that we're looking at our impact

1346
01:56:42,800 --> 01:56:51,199
we assess water impact do not currently
assess street impact something we've

1347
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:58,080
discussed for a long time just as with
the water wastewater impact. We have

1348
01:56:55,360 --> 01:57:06,320
water and wastewater is not on that
plan. You cannot use impact fees to fund

1349
01:57:01,199 --> 01:57:08,800
any improvements to it or to make up
between what a developer might

1350
01:57:07,599 --> 01:57:13,040
contribute and what the city might
participate in. There's a there's a lot

1351
01:57:10,800 --> 01:57:20,000
of benefits to having it on the plan
versus not things that can be done by

1352
01:57:16,560 --> 01:57:23,920
having it on the plan versus the harm of
not having it on of having it on the

1353
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:28,080
plan.
If you get the street impact fees, it

1354
01:57:25,679 --> 01:57:33,440
even narrows down a little bit capacity
building projects. And so some of these

1355
01:57:30,960 --> 01:57:37,920
we're talking about
there's a lot of that engineers have to

1356
01:57:35,679 --> 01:57:41,520
do that. I'm not engineer, but comparing
like how what that traffic does if for

1357
01:57:40,080 --> 01:57:48,520
proposed development and if it's going
to be a capacity building project.

1358
01:57:44,960 --> 01:57:48,520
having more options.

1359
01:57:49,280 --> 01:57:52,280
Okay.

1360
01:57:52,719 --> 01:57:59,119
So, anybody interested in moving to item
number three, discussion related to

1361
01:57:56,560 --> 01:58:02,280
proposed town hall number two that
>> we kind

1362
01:58:05,599 --> 01:58:09,480
further business to discuss?

1363
01:58:09,920 --> 01:58:16,679
» Okay. We will do we need to formally we
don't need to formally do this

1364
01:58:17,840 --> 01:58:20,840
out.

1365
01:58:21,040 --> 01:58:25,679
» Okay.
>> 8:27 p.m. Thank you for your

1366
01:58:24,960 --> 01:58:30,040
participation.
>> I appreciate y'all. That was a really

1367
01:58:26,880 --> 01:58:30,040
good discussion.