[0:05] [laughter]
[0:09] So that's how long
[0:23] the music stops.
[0:38] You have to go to
[0:45] 1985.
[0:58] I like your
drink.
[1:03] » That's pretty good stuff. Where'd you
get that?
[1:06] » Oh,
hometown.
[1:10] » He made it after he emptied out the
contents.
[1:13] » You see though, side is real. The real
thing, what it is on the can. The other
[1:21] side is spray hair glue.
Heavy duty. Uh, this will hold your hat
[1:28] on. It'll hold your wig on.
All of this
[1:37] » hold my three.
>> It stays cold, too.
[1:45] » Yes. Uh,
G.
[1:49] I call this meeting of the Springtown
CPAC
[1:55] to order at 6:30 p.m. Notice has been
posted in accordance with Texas
[1:59] government code. We do have quorum
present. We need a roll call. Are we
[2:04] recording this?
>> Uh we're streaming
[2:06] » streaming. We need a roll call.
>> No.
[2:09] » Okay. This isn't officially meeting by
the way.
[2:11] » Yeah. No, we're not subject to here. So,
>> okay.
[2:18] All right.
We have an invitation pledge, sir.
[2:23] » Okay.
[2:29] » Heavenly Father, we thank you for today.
We thank you for the people that are
[2:32] here today. And God, we pray that you be
with us in this meeting. I pray that you
[2:37] guide us, lead us, and help us to honor
and glorify your name in Jesus name.
[2:42] Amen.
>> Amen.
[2:44] » Join me. The pledge. I pledge algiance
to the flag. of the United States of
[2:49] America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God,
[2:55] indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all.
[2:59] » Thank you, sir.
>> Thank you.
[3:02] » All right.
At this time, Mr. Mayor, we're going to
[3:06] turn it over to Dalton and take it from
there.
[3:08] » All right. Well, we appreciate you all
coming out. Um, in front of you, we have
[3:12] a draft future land use. Um, I think
everybody should have one of these
[3:15] handouts. Um, I just wanted to kind of
do a brief rundown. So, really when
[3:19] you're thinking about a land use map,
um, this is a a map that's kind of like
[3:24] a vision. Um, this is not dictating
zoning. This is just in ideal
[3:29] circumstances. This is how we would like
to see the city grow. So, typically, you
[3:33] know, you have commercial along your
thorough affairs. Um, some of these maps
[3:38] have the flood plane on there to take
into consideration as well. Um, the
[3:41] light yellow is low density residential.
That's primarily what's out in your ETJ
[3:46] and you know in a lot of the
neighborhoods. Um also for reference um
[3:51] you know obviously uh some of these maps
have the ETJ on them. The city does have
[3:55] the authority to plan out into the ETJ
but you can't zone in the ETJ. And so
[4:00] this is again strictly going back to
just a vision a planning document um
[4:05] that then informs your zoning map. Um
when you're making zoning changes, we
[4:10] like to keep land use maps much more
broad. That way you have less um changes
[4:15] down the road. So like you know we have
commercial districts on here but your
[4:19] zoning may be you know C1 C2 and have
different uses setbacks things like
[4:24] that. Um same thing with residential and
some of these other areas. And so that's
[4:30] kind of a brief rundown. Um, I think
what we want to do is just have you all
[4:35] kind of review those for about what, 10
to 15 minutes. Um, feel free to mark up
[4:39] those maps as much as you want. Um,
really this is just kind of the first
[4:43] stab after meeting with staff of, you
know, kind of evaluating current land
[4:47] use and what we think it might be down
the road. Um, and after that 10 or 15
[4:52] minutes, we'll have a conversation and
kind of look through comments and and go
[4:55] from there. So, and I'll just kind of
walk around and y'all can feel free to
[4:58] ask me questions or um if you want to
discuss anything good for that as well.
[5:10] » Same. Can you guys see it upside down?
>> You're on the north end. We're on the
[5:16] south end.
>> So, this map
[5:25] is the
population 5000 because
[5:33] » we
[5:38] » this is just us hypothetically
[5:46] » local government
outjs
[5:51] you could annex more easily now it's
voluntary only But if you know for
[5:56] instance one day you were to annex this
ideally you see this being residential.
[6:01] It just helps that you're planning
infrastructure
[6:05] » but obviousity
[6:17] resour
[6:23] think
potentially want to do a commercial
[6:27] development.
And then this was just a location that
[6:31] kind of made sense for so
[6:36] close to school.
[6:42] But really
>> this is medium density. This is medium
[6:47] density. This is suggested
>> monuments.
[6:53] So this is suggest
[7:03] » I would hope that this is not
>> black is our current city
[7:07] » but we don't have any we have no
influence
[7:10] here which is existing.
>> Yeah those are already existing
[7:16] right
next to
[7:21] » this and the fact How many people
>> eventually hopefully the county were you
[7:25] going to talk about the county's
plan tonight?
[7:30] Well, as much as you count as much
information,00
[7:38] » school district
they've been annexed
[7:42] » industrial this is still these are both
[7:48] » the hope here
>> well I think property owners they're
[7:53] here both
>> hopeful there are some advantages to
[7:55] having something
[7:59] resial somebody by
[8:04] resil.
[8:21] come in here,
hey?
[8:31] » Well, that is I think that is not a
certainty, but it is a lean
[8:36] » this
part
[8:40] would make this very valable
[8:44] being
[8:49] here. Both of them are in that same.
>> Yes.
[9:00] » So this is based off of
>> the county.
[9:06] Yes.
So this is the current
[9:15] » development
comes around
[9:20] that becomes valuable commercially
[9:36] Yeah, we can change
>> like this one for anything. I mean, it
[9:39] can be commercial as well. I think the
idea was just transition zone from
[9:44] single family neighborhoods to not heavy
commercial, but
[9:48] » we're skipping ahead here on
thoroughare, but you're going to have a
[9:53] lot of objection to this being.
This is a neighbor
[9:59] right here.
>> You got about 40 houses with driveways
[10:03] here. That's notense.
That's a local
[10:14] » kind of pardon the phrase screw the by
putting that subdivision without reverse
[10:20] frontages. You got driveways right.
So you'll get some push back on that.
[10:34] And that thoroughare that is existing
was before that subdivision.
[10:43] » Yeah. So some of this is like proposed.
So this would be taking
[10:48] » I believe that was the county's idea
is to potentially bring that next.
[10:55] » Yeah. There's several segments on there
that are not
[10:59] right.
Keep in mind this is this is a future
[11:03] thoroughare. question is how are the
streets been way out? So those ones that
[11:06] you see connected up here in this area
were added to
[11:13] to help take relief off as the schools
grow right and so that this this portion
[11:21] here doesn't even exist right now.
[11:25] I think we probably need to go back to
the land use conversation because we got
[11:29] to get through the land use before we
can really explore the thoroughare.
[11:33] » I agree.
>> Okay. The thoroughare a little bit
[11:38] dictates
though what we want to see
[11:42] what what the what the county is going
to support terms of thoroughare is going
[11:46] to impact what we do with our land use
or are we hopeful that our land use
[11:51] tells the county
>> here.
[11:54] I think it's more possible that our land
use is going to tell the county what
[11:57] future streets we may need.
>> Yeah. And the land use map and the
[12:01] thoroughare map that we have. Yes. They
have a relationship to one another and
[12:05] they certainly impact each other,
>> but our thoroughare plan is our federal
[12:10] plan. We do want it to align with the
county's thoroughare plan certainly does
[12:15] not conflict with the county's federal
plan.
[12:21] and all the med wrong, but it's more
that your land use is going to drive
[12:26] your thorough affairs and then your
thorough drive.
[12:30] » Yeah. So, whatever thorough affairs you
all have as the counties, if they from
[12:34] my understanding, county doesn't have a
lot of funding lined up for some of
[12:36] these either. And so, really, it's just
planning like I was talking about right
[12:41] away. And if you anticipate or you want
commercial in certain areas down the
[12:46] road or neighborhoods like we're talking
about designating enough rightway so you
[12:51] have proper
that's really
[12:56] what you're thinking about in terms of
land use
[13:00] the the county is probably more likely
to be partners with us on the perimeter
[13:04] of thorough affairs rather than internal
to the city
[13:07] » yeah they pretty much said whatever is
in the city is up to the city they want
[13:12] to reflect those accurately on their map
but he up to the The county has been
[13:18] working on a grid outside of
>> the whole purpose of us meeting with the
[13:23] county was to make sure that whatever we
do in our thoroughare plan doesn't
[13:27] conflict as Christine mentioned a minute
ago doesn't conflict with where they may
[13:30] be wanting to put some streets through
and how all that complent one another
[13:36] right the best prime example I can give
you right now well I'll talk about when
[13:40] we get to plan let's go back to the land
use right
[13:43] » so I think
what you guys are seeing and correct
[13:50] most of everything along our major
highway corridors will be zone
[13:54] commercial right that has been the
intent for many years right and you
[14:01] still have residential division 51
speckled in here right
[14:06] just because they haven't moved or
whatever right so so take a take a look
[14:12] at the map tell us if there's any areas
I think mentioned this area right here
[14:17] already. Uh, is there any areas that
offer you guys any concern as far as how
[14:22] the zoning looks
on this map?
[14:29] » So, can we talk about the the schools
here?
[14:35] » So, we almost
uh converted the whole 50 acres here to
[14:39] commercial. Is that what this shows here
or is that partially is that what this?
[14:44] Yeah, that's existing school. This is
Bel Travel Center.
[14:50] » Okay. So, this is this this is currently
partially what is it?
[14:54] » This is
>> No, this is that
[14:58] » gas station.
>> Gas station and the attached existing 13
[15:02] acres to that.
>> Okay. This is
[15:05] » elementary.
>> Yes.
[15:08] So here
[15:12] this is the intermediate middle school.
>> Uh that's the state that's the middle
[15:17] school.
>> Okay.
[15:20] » So this is the area where it was
potentially going to go commercial.
[15:24] » Oh this is this is
>> so this section though is
[15:30] » I think you're talking about this
section right here.
[15:33] » Okay.
>> And what about this section here?
[15:37] That'sriv.
[15:41] » So, this could potentially be
commercial.
[15:47] » There's a there's a home there and the
city the school district owns that
[15:52] little home there. This is where it used
to be common grow. There's a sign up
[15:55] now. There's a
food truck
[15:58] » food truck there.
>> And keep in mind this is not in our
[16:02] city.
[16:07] Both of those are not
this is not
[16:12] » this one.
So we do have some commercial entities
[16:16] right here.
[16:24] » Yeah. And keep in mind too, you are
going to have throughout here, there
[16:27] will be instance where you have maybe
specifically churches a lot of times are
[16:31] in uh like these low density residential
areas or you'll have commercial
[16:36] sprinkled in but future land use is
trying to capture the primary use of
[16:40] that area. And so you can have instances
here and there have other uses.
[16:47] But if you get super detailed like that,
then you're getting into
[16:56] I know another parcel the city wanted
opinions on also is this one.
[17:01] » So I believe it's currently zoned light
industrial.
[17:04] » Yeah. So it currently has a light
industrial PD on it. It's about 10 years
[17:08] old
negotiated with property owners are
[17:12] still the property owners
consultant no longer employed by the
[17:17] city. The question becomes
you've got
[17:23] all the way up to 9 street. Do you
immediately want to go across the street
[17:30] or do you want
a buffer before you begin?
[17:38] » So have
that 380. We already have that instance
[17:45] here.
[18:02] » So that doesn't have an expiration date.
>> No runs with the land. Well, sometimes
[18:08] there's a a writer requirement that it
has to be built out of
[18:15] » it doesn't.
>> Okay.
[18:19] » The other concern too having that is
going to mean some level of truck
[18:24] traffic.
[18:39] the industrial route or even commercial
[18:47] when we get to the subdivision ordinance
we do need to have limits on the number
[18:51] of access points
[19:01] and you're right outside the red track
there trying to get in or out of
[19:08] So,
>> so keeping in mind what you're looking
[19:10] at is [clears throat] if you don't
desire make this something industrial,
[19:15] all you're doing is doing a future land
use plan. You're not reszoning anything,
[19:21] right? That would have to be done by
it.
[19:26] If we're dealing with a developer who
wants to come in and do something, if he
[19:31] sees that we're looking at this to be
resial, we're looking to be commercial,
[19:36] whatever it might be, right? Then he'll
see that on our future land use, which
[19:41] is basically you're telling the
developer, you're open to that concept,
[19:44] right? The actual reasoning of it would
have to be done by the property
[19:49] better for medium density over there.
[19:55] » So yeah, so define your definition of
medium density.
[20:02] » Okay. So yeah, so
[20:06] » light vehicle traffic.
>> Yeah. You want the David Miller opinion?
[20:09] » Sure.
>> The David Miller opinion is that this
[20:11] would be a good area for some type of
medium density property, right? Because
[20:18] when you get into single family homes,
if you're going to push all the way up
[20:21] into this area, you're backing right up
to the gas, right?
[20:26] » Yeah. And that's the difficulty of
trying to to tell it as an S1, SF1, S2
[20:32] because of it, the gas station. Medium
density, at least in my opinion, makes
[20:37] sense.
>> Well, the downside of it is you've got
[20:40] all the people here coming down these
streets to get to the grocery store.
[20:44] » I think they turn right.
>> Well, they might or a lot of cars go
[20:49] zigzag through here.
So
[20:54] » generally most
>> more high density developments closer to
[20:59] the city center.
>> It depends on the city.
[21:02] » Yeah.
>> I've seen it both ways. It just kind of
[21:04] depends on how it grows.
>> I'd rather see some if there's
[21:07] apartments going in sometime or town
homes somewhere
[21:11] because it gets us away gets away from
[21:17] » If you talk about apartments, I would
consider those high density which we
[21:20] don't have any currently. You can change
that if you want.
[21:24] But through the survey and kind of
conversations, it sounds like it's
[21:27] mostly going to be lowensity res
[21:43] think.
This would be public. This is the
[21:48] school. There's 17 acres here. They're
not
[21:54] or six acres. I think it's
here.
[21:59] » Oh, you're talking about along the
front.
[22:02] » Okay.
>> So, this is I think there's a home on
[22:04] the corner. Maybe there's a couple homes
here and here already exist.
[22:12] » Yeah. So, no, he's right. This here in
conversations that we've had with the
[22:18] school district
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this
[22:23] originally cut out to do something with
hindsightes with
[22:26] » the owner did not want to sell.
>> Okay. So, they still own
[22:31] » Okay.
24 acres here.
[22:37] » Did you
did annex this? I don't know.
[22:43] » We only annex.
>> Okay. I'll adjust that.
[22:47] » So, this
I was thinking this was a half and
[22:51] that's really it's on the other side of
the road. If that were to be medium
[22:55] density my only worry is that bridge get
transportation we'll stop
[23:03] you mentioned the apartments on this
area my thought is that commercially
[23:10] this is very
>> valable because I don't know that a guy
[23:14] somebody building an apartment complex
is going to want to out somebody that's
[23:21] comping
[23:30] commercially, they'll be happy to look.
If we give a prime acreage for multif
[23:35] family, commercial is not going to just
then go look somewhere else in the city.
[23:39] A lot of the commercial developers we
talked to, if they can't get on 199,
[23:43] they're not even really interested in
51. And so I think that's
[23:48] prime acorage to to give up to consider
res. I agree which is why I think this I
[23:54] would not try to move to medium density.
>> So I I I would not recommend any type of
[24:02] meeting
because that is the city's most primal
[24:07] spot for commercial development, right?
And so if you want to pepper it further
[24:12] back, David, I understand what you're
saying, but the best
[24:17] If you look at Weatherford's multif
family developments, they're all on the
[24:20] peripherals, right? And so, of course,
Weatherford is much more developed in
[24:24] the center than we are, which is
probably why. But the reality of it is,
[24:28] uh, I wouldn't give up any valuable
commercial property along the side,
[24:31] especially at the rate that commercial
development is going right now. Uh, we
[24:37] met with different developers today. you
have another meeting because I'm out the
[24:42] rest of the week because my deal you got
a meeting tomorrow Thursday.
[24:47] So it's u
there's too much interest in commercial
[24:51] development along this
[24:57] and tax wise for the same acorage would
the city be getting more property taxes
[25:05] or
>> depends on builds rights if you you
[25:10] three hair salons. Then the answer to
that
[25:13] three hair salons uh and compared to
apartment complex. No, you're going to
[25:18] get more tax off the apartment complex.
You build big box and you're going to
[25:24] get more tax and sales tax off that big
box apartment complex.
[25:31] » You also have to look at the cost to
serve complex
[25:38] cost more. Also,
depending on what fire apparat
[25:43] on height.
>> There's only one quint.
[25:52] » So we're limited to what? Two stories.
>> Three.
[25:56] » That's max right now.
>> Will our current ordinances even
[26:03] » max.
[26:09] So these are the buckets for land use.
>> So we're no longer just commercial res.
[26:20] » So what what do you mean by semi semi? I
thought that was kind of outdated term.
[26:25] So I mean most people put cemeteries
[26:30] like county
[26:36] has been known by the public access
[26:44] that's currently part of certain
subdivisions is that considered public
[26:51] » yeah we can carve that out but typically
those are going to be smaller So,
[26:56] you wouldn't show that, but we can
certainly pull those parts in
[27:02] » right now.
[27:06] And there's 51.
[27:11] » Okay.
>> I think that would be
[27:21] small amount.
[27:33] So one other thing's
statute now that requires you to have
[27:38] some instance of manufactured housing
manufactured housing. So essentially we
[27:43] designated an area that already has
manufactured housing for that relatively
[27:48] small area keeps us out of being out of
comp doesn't encourage
[27:54] substantial
manufactured housing development to
[27:58] necessarily go right in the middle of
something that we're envisioning for
[28:02] something else.
[28:07] » That's a new
manufacturer.
[28:13] » I want to see that.
>> Well, actually South Lake has unless
[28:17] they've changed it. You know where
Pearson Road is in South Lake and if you
[28:20] go south on Pearson, it makes a
[28:28] partisan.
[28:42] We already have an area off of Ash
Street that has that. So that's what we
[28:47] dictated on the map.
[29:03] buy it out one day. Wink wink and do
something different. We're open to that,
[29:07] too. But we have to have
>> Yeah.
[29:12] » So, here's one, too. You have to have
zoning in your city. You have to
[29:17] designate us that will actually allow
sexually aren't business,
[29:23] » right?
>> We've got about 30 pages worth of
[29:26] regulation on that.
>> We do, but you have to allow it. You
[29:29] have to have a zoner that allows it. So,
technically,
[29:33] » which one is that?
>> That is not [laughter]
[29:39] the way we handle that
very
[29:49] apply.
[29:54] discretionary
as far as
[29:59] they're not guaranteed to be able to do
it, but we have to provide any
[30:05] process by
all
[30:10] they at least have opportunity or a
chance to say no.
[30:14] » Yeah. the idea that you can just zone
out by just not listing it in your table
[30:19] that that's not entirely accurate. You
have to you can make the process pretty
[30:24] incessor.
[30:31] Do we allow data in the city? We don't
have a use for it right now.
[30:36] » Well, so so truth is you have to
consider they have the right to to
[30:42] apply.
They had the right. The greater truth is
[30:47] we don't have enough space in the city
to put them, right? And currently we
[30:51] would not be without impacting our
citizens, we would not be able to get
[30:55] the water.
So I'm
[30:58] » unless they
>> they're looking
[31:02] they offered a friend of mine right out
of right off their 920
[31:06] » right there. 400 acres and then they got
to looking and they couldn't put it
[31:10] there.
>> Yeah.
[31:10] » But they offered him money for his
property. They're looking everywhere.
[31:14] You know, we've been approached by a
couple in the past.
[31:20] » So, what's the demarcation between low
density resity?
[31:25] » Low density is just standard single
family neighborhoods. I mean you can go
[31:28] into if you want to you could have low
density rural residential because that's
[31:34] in your rural res
medium density as far as I'm defining it
[31:42] for y town
maybe but I would say if you start
[31:48] getting larger complex it's going to be
high
[31:54] multip
So even like
[32:04] » Yeah.
[32:11] » And even then too you can depending on
what you want in a zoning or you can be
[32:15] very detailed
>> gentle density you can allow certain
[32:19] circumstances are
things like
[32:23] » I think I think important point because
something that you guys will be
[32:26] considering in coming months is a new
map. This is a building block. We're
[32:31] certainly not going to propose a zoning
map that conflicts with the land use.
[32:37] So as
mentioned earlier,
[32:42] so you may have a commercial area that's
all commercial
[32:46] when we adopt a new zoning zoning. You
may have two or three commercial
[32:51] districts from which to choose all of
own table which is different all their
[32:57] different development standards from
setbacks to parking requirements to
[33:02] maximum area coverage. Um, so that's
something to be thinking about as you're
[33:09] making decisions and recommendations
based on the land use map is that if you
[33:14] assign an area commercial when we go to
start working on the zoning map, however
[33:20] many commercial zoning districts you
have to choose from, that's going to be
[33:24] your options to assign to that area. Um
you can there's two options when we get
[33:32] to the zoning map stage. One would be
parcel based where each parcel has a
[33:37] zoning designation specific to the
parcel which is what we've operated on
[33:41] in the past and there's some pros and
cons to that and another is more of a
[33:45] neighborhood or street level zoning
where you don't have opportunities for
[33:51] speckled in parcels of different uses.
We can debate the pros and cons of each
[33:57] of those get to that stage.
Keep in mind as you're looking at this
[34:03] is that this is the building block for
the zoning maps.
[34:08] » So so when we get to that stage, will
there be there should be no conflicts
[34:13] between something that is the use is
residential but the zoning set is
[34:17] commercial or we still have some
outliers?
[34:21] » Uh it just depends. I mean you could
have
[34:23] There may be potential areas now that
are zoned residential that collectively
[34:27] everyone says this makes more sense for
commercial. Then if we decide to update
[34:34] that the zoning ordinance, it doesn't
change anything. That use is going to be
[34:37] a legal non-conforming use until
something changes.
[34:44] And something else to keep in mind too
is this future language plan. We're
[34:47] going to go through we're going to adopt
this and develop it. But this is still a
[34:50] living document just like the rest of
the plan. So if someone came into
[34:53] downtown said hey we really want to do a
really cool mixed use and then we have
[34:56] this commercial and that involves you
know commercial and residential doesn't
[35:01] mean you have to say oh no this is only
commercial you can amend a land use plan
[35:07] very
documents in the plan that explain how
[35:10] to do that most changes kind
[35:18] » that's a good point this entire document
is a fluid document
[35:22] doesn't it doesn't nail once it's all
passed. It doesn't nail the city council
[35:26] down to one specific thing. It can all
be changed because you may have you may
[35:33] have a
zer
[35:40] wants to come in
thousands of dollars. You can always
[35:44] change that. It's a very fluid document.
This is just building stone foundation
[35:49] to build that off.
[35:57] At the end of the day too, it helps and
council because when they're evaluating
[36:02] zoning or land use or anything like
that, they say, "Okay, is this align
[36:06] with what we all talked about talked
about citizens agree with this and then
[36:12] if it's substantially different
[36:20] that when we do this and especially as
we begin to work on the zoning
[36:23] components of it that this group here
will not be able to make everybody
[36:29] happy,
>> right? You just won't be able. But
[36:32] that's why it's important to explain to
them that this is just this is just a
[36:35] road mapap foundation to get us for to
help us guide our future growth that
[36:41] it's not set in stone because you have
somebody come in because happens to me
[36:45] every time I change somebody comes to me
says hey you got commercial zoning
[36:49] that's my house and you have this bill
that doesn't mean you're going to lose
[36:53] your house right so you're not going to
be able to make everybody happy main
[36:57] thing is you're looking to establish a
direction for the city to be moving in
[37:01] to grow that's still coming into the
city.
[37:08] So there's a lot a lot going on out
here. You got a lot of different
[37:13] different uses in a small amount of
space there. Uh so for schools is it
[37:21] generally preferable to have residential
next to schools? In this case, we would
[37:25] not have
what's the general strategy case
[37:33] by case basis. I mean, I've seen
situations
[37:39] I drove by school the other day
or town front street.
[37:48] So
really
[37:50] » going back to South Lake what's all
built around Carol High School right
[37:55] it's a case
>> this park up here is baseball field
[38:02] » for everybody
>> there's not a way to change so that's
[38:07] parts of recreation but not city parks
but it's not public
[38:12] » yeah we can change it
>> is that
[38:15] » it's primarily recreation
But our city park is is that public or
[38:21] » park
>> build off that would be any for like
[38:25] Lions Club to say park recreation
private own
[38:28] » we can do that
>> right so that it's not it's not confused
[38:32] with say the city's ball fields or
anything
[38:45] Kelly right property.
They can't sell
[38:57] that's not
>> and that's why I think the distinction
[39:02] saying private owners would be good
because
[39:06] It's not a city park. We don't maintain
it.
[39:10] Right.
>> Mr. Randolph,
[39:13] a portion of this property you think is
similarly is it already locked in.
[39:20] » She's talked about being locked in.
>> Well, she's if you look at the taxes on
[39:25] it, she's already got
the way worded on the taxes. She's
[39:30] already got it locked in. But that's
what she that's what her husband
[39:34] wildlife sanctuary is, you know, she has
no siblings and her husband's siblings
[39:42] was his. So, if something ever happens
to her, from what I understand, she's
[39:46] got a she's got that turned into
maybe like a big company that she's
[39:54] going to will it to that's going to go
to. Who knows what?
[39:58] » Is that a deep restriction?
>> Well, no. No, it's not necessarily deep
[40:02] restriction. You just She changed it.
It's like a tr Yeah, she's got it in a
[40:06] trust.
>> But is it
[40:09] six? What is this? Not six.
>> See, I'm I'm right. I'm right here.
[40:14] [clears throat] This is me.
>> And then she starts Let's see. That's
[40:18] Spring Branch.
>> There's a house on the corner, Spring
[40:21] Branch. And hers will start there, goes
all the way to the
[40:24] » She's not talking.
>> Well, part of it.
[40:26] » Part of it is. Yeah. She go She's next
to Terry Tal. She goes way.
[40:30] » So that really leaves then.
>> She comes 30 acres there.
[40:34] » But there's homes here.
>> Yeah. Terry Terry's the only home there.
[40:40] That's
>> So Terry Terry's right here on the
[40:44] corner. She goes all the way to the
creek all the way. She goes all the way.
[40:51] So
[40:56] » I don't know where else
>> any buffer here would be difficult
[41:01] because it's landlocked.
[41:05] this one.
>> Yeah.
[41:08] » From industrial to reser
[41:22] between commercial.
[41:30] Well,
presumption
[41:55] in there
since we don't really have very much
[42:01] Again, my opinion that's a good area.
[42:07] » Well, if this this is the cities and I
know that there's a couple properties
[42:12] over here, but on the wider map, this
road empties to 199. This this road
[42:22] » and attaches. So this property,
some of this property, if there were
[42:27] medium density, it could empty here or
here and avoid that. But that's not in
[42:33] the city project terms what's in the
city limits or near touching the ETJ.
[42:40] It's pretty well it's already designated
in ways that I don't know that we could
[42:43] there's a way to change. I mean, there
are already home there already homes
[42:47] here. I can't change that. Uh there
already homes here.
[42:53] This is I don't know how many properties
are over there
[43:00] » 10 acres.
>> Yeah, we're we're anywhere from five to
[43:03] seven. I own seven. My daughter owns
five.
[43:09] Yeah, Wilson owns he owns he bought his
aunts. So he owns about 12.
[43:26] » Well, in terms of growth, there's
nothing here right now. There's nothing
[43:30] here and here right now. This is tractor
supply
[43:35] » and the nursing home.
Is this the edge track?
[43:47] » This is
[43:50] close.
>> All right. And we have already been
[43:53] approached by somebody with some
interest in this.
[43:56] » Yes. You'll actually have a four acres
of that right at the corner later this
[44:02] month and then annexation and zoning
will come in September.
[44:06] So these two propert this area, this
area and this area are the commercial
[44:12] designated commercial that you do not
yet have commercial.
[44:18] » Yes, that's correct.
>> That's a lot to fill in the next how
[44:22] frequently will we have these?
[44:26] I can't see all that disappearing in the
next
[44:31] 24,
[44:37] » but unless there's some significant
annexation, we're kind of
[44:42] » just tell you that anything's possible
right now. So, so are we then tasked
[44:47] with should we look at what we would
hope these properties these properties
[44:52] or these properties
>> where does not stand where
[45:00] is this bittersweet at the beginning
[45:06] » it's
[45:09] so what's
[45:12] There's a church
[45:19] » and also that's
>> on the north side of that
[45:28] » lady.
[45:36] Uh Perry.
>> Yeah, Perry. She still lives up in that
[45:38] area. She has a little
[45:44] » sliveres.
[45:49] What's his name? Stoker.
[45:57] » Is there benefit to us covering some of
this land use in our ETJs?
[46:04] » You can. Yeah. Uh the other thing about
ETJ also is that
[46:09] theoretically you can enforce your
subdivision regulations in your TJ. So
[46:13] if someone does not like your subition
out and so um you are you are planning
[46:22] for an area potentially [clears throat]
be out of I think you already have a few
[46:26] petitions that we need to map as is
>> the risk under the the current state law
[46:33] is if you map out your land use plan
into your ETJ and somebody sees that and
[46:38] they think hey they're fixing to do
something on my land there's no petition
[46:41] to get out ETJ
which then gives you zero control,
[46:45] right? And so, so
>> should a future property owner decide
[46:51] they want
>> Yeah. because then they got to get
[46:54] permission back into annex and so you
know I think under the current state why
[47:00] it's good to put it out there I don't
know that it's I don't know that it's
[47:03] necessarily wise either right so
>> yeah and I think that's it's not going
[47:09] to have any practical impact but it
could substantial impact and that you
[47:14] are going to have some people who simply
don't understand what that means and
[47:18] like David said they're going to see
that they're going to panic and they're
[47:22] find out that they can petition for ETJ
release and they're just going to go
[47:25] file that petition and once it's filed
we can't go coun them and say hey may
[47:29] not understand please
[47:34] Mr. got about 100 acres sitting out
there right off 199 just east of the
[47:39] lynch property
and of course Mr. Mooney has passed away
[47:44] but
if you were to go tell his kids that
[47:48] we're going to we're going to put
commercial on that or medium density or
[47:53] whatever there's a high probability
they're just going to turn around and
[47:56] say get us out of your right because
they at least the last conversations had
[48:01] they weren't interested in anything
other than
[48:04] Right. So it may cause it may cause
pain. The the other side of that
[48:09] Christina mentioned a second too is if
property does develop that developer can
[48:14] come into the city and annex right then
you're dealing with that developer. So
[48:19] but it's it's y'all's call to make I'm
just in that scenario
[48:24] [clears throat] violating as a council
the
[48:27] comprehensive plan.
>> No not necessarily because if like I
[48:32] said it's a living document. someone
were to come up especially in ETJ
[48:36] there's some cities that have ETJ just
future development they don't even
[48:40] designate anything the reason we didn't
look because primarily outj that's where
[48:44] it is minus you know a few of these
parcels here and there but um yeah if
[48:51] that were to happen you had a developer
come in say hey we want to annex then
[48:55] you would amend your future language
[49:00] » and that essentiallys
[49:04] Yeah, we'll have a record in the front
of the plan that goes through or you
[49:07] have a date why it was amended or that
way whoever's looking also.
[49:14] Okay.
[49:19] » It's really to think about the comp plan
and the land use plan as guiding
[49:24] decisions, not necessarily restricting
decisions.
[49:29] zoning is where you get to maybe
restricting decisions, but
[49:33] the plan is just really this is kind of
what we envisioned. Hey, this great
[49:37] opportunity comes up. We don't want to
deny it just because it doesn't align
[49:42] unless it's substantial something.
[49:47] » Yeah. I mean, your plan should protect
you from you don't want you into that
[49:55] one time, but you have a better
alternative.
[50:14] land.
[50:19] » That's fairly recent though, right?
>> Yes. About three, four years ago, the
[50:23] legisle passed a law that says you can
petition for release from and a city has
[50:29] to release you.
>> Several cities sued pretty much
[50:33] immediately saying that's
unconstitutional. You don't have a take
[50:37] that authority away from us. That's
still progressing through. So what we
[50:41] have done is we have adopted an
ordinance that says okay you can file
[50:47] for release and the council has two
options. They on it, which would could
[50:52] be seen as taking action to support that
request. Or they take no action and it's
[50:59] approved by operation of law. Basically,
it's approved because
[51:07] some of these courtesy
this is all very legal
[51:14] potentially go back to the ones that we
didn't take action on
[51:20] and say hey you were never
[51:24] the likelihood of that happening I'm not
hopeful but that really was the only
[51:31] Yeah, we got legislative session that
starts
[51:34] get worse.
>> I have a feeling it will get worse. The
[51:39] state has historically last I don't know
how many cycles has made it harder for
[51:44] local communities. So on every level
zoning and everything involved so that's
[51:50] what our goal is to navigate best we
can.
[52:06] You bet.
[52:23] » But uh so I said we met with the They
have a he gave us a draft uh or let us
[52:31] look at a draft could keep it. Um he
also made a lot of revisions during that
[52:36] meeting. So we're wait I think September
was the time frame he gave a draft. Um
[52:42] the biggest thing the countyy's plan is
very ambitious for some of their
[52:47] » rideways
a lot of six lane divided which and so
[52:52] really it's whether or not we don't want
to contradict a plan but we also want to
[52:56] be realistic in what you all envision
happening and so um that's kind of where
[53:02] we're at is we'll have more information
when the county releases their plan or
[53:06] gives us a draft and then we can
compare. Um but for now we went through
[53:11] this was the big one that the county put
in was the principal arterial he said
[53:15] six lane six would be very tight there
we'll see um Williams
[53:24] we probably have to get about 20 ft of
rideway the length of it to make it
[53:28] function as lane and that would be with
no kind of shoulder acceleration
[53:33] acceleration six lane
it's not likely especially
[53:39] they don't intend to make any
improvements.
[53:42] So you have a six lane going into a two
lane. It doesn't make sense. It's high
[53:49] and they had more out here in the EJ. I
don't have those because I don't know
[53:52] the specifics, but they were also large
right away. He had essentially a grid
[53:58] around the city. That's how most
transportation planners plan. They want
[54:02] to get everything into a nice neat grid.
In reality, roads don't work that way
[54:06] all the time. You kind of got to work
with what you have. The county of this
[54:11] green, I believe it's already
in design.
[54:16] » Design. Yeah, it's in design for
[clears throat]
[54:19] Hutcherson to be extended across Old
Town 51 and then to make that connection
[54:24] back to the L intersection. Their
funding as far as expansion for capacity
[54:30] is how we found out today.
[54:35] So, it's not going to add any additional
lanes. It's going to make the existing
[54:39] lane road more standard than it
currently is. So it would be future
[54:44] projects that look at expanding that
from the existing two lane
[54:50] » and
also
[54:54] dumping on I think similar concerns
about
[54:58] as well and they're supposedly supposed
to be signal.
[55:03] » Yeah. So text has had a signal funded
there for several years.
[55:09] We have a a lot of
quite frequently it seems. So as soon as
[55:14] we get up to speed with one seems we
have another one
[55:18] we currently have is fairly new
to get status check from that last
[55:31] design right and so we just need to get
new engine
[55:38] but my that this signal right here is
already
[55:43] » and then the uh signal or intersection
improvements would be doing a study
[55:49] essentially to evaluate the timing of
those lights how to improve traffic on
[55:53] 51 if there's any additional signal
improvements that could help the flow of
[55:58] traffic. the county from talking with
them I don't think they had any
[56:02] intention of doing any major substantial
changes to 51
[56:07] I think we even have it classified I
think they may have had as art a minor
[56:11] arterial I have as art
[56:19] » so
but here they're talking about widening
[56:23] widening not here
>> they are looking at expansion to the
[56:30] where we see a lot of the traffic back
up today from 199 to
[56:37] believe a lot of it is timing issues of
the signal lights
[56:42] to promote traffic flow particularly
during peak hours also since we did just
[56:47] have an expansion significant expansion
project the likelihood of text growing a
[56:53] significant dollar amount towards
expanding it yet again especially in an
[56:57] area they do not have any more rideway.
They ate up the rideway they had with
[57:02] the last expansion project is unlikely.
We have to look at alternative ways of
[57:07] making traffic flow and that's either
moving traffic to another roadway
[57:12] intersection improvements timing of the
lights but again the 519
[57:19] exped
if they expand now some of our downtown
[57:31] right for example at the chamber
literally
[57:40] without going into the east side of the
square
[57:46] » and honestly from a planning perspective
why would not
[57:52] you need to get traffic off
>> and so using other
[57:56] » and we've had conversations with text
about getting
[57:59] traffic off of 51 just had that
conversation with engineer three weeks
[58:06] ago. The question is how because they
are very open to doing that now but the
[58:11] only alternate route we have 18 wheelers
to get around spring
[58:17] and I'm not about to advocate dumping
all the 18 wheelers on the street that
[58:20] has the most schools right and so they
they are open to to doing that but I
[58:28] can't see us using for that alterative
>> but I love what you said it seems to me
[58:35] They redid the intersection
>> 51 got worse.
[58:40] » The traffic from from north to south.
>> I think there's some signalization
[58:45] timing issues there. And I also think
that semi plays a significant role
[58:51] because everybody
[58:57] [clears throat]
timing issues and you get what you see
[59:01] today. Like this morning it was backed
up down
[59:08] » [clears throat]
>> This is kind of getting in the weeds,
[59:09] but do they have a sensor that can tell
how much the traffic is backed up or is
[59:13] it just timing?
>> I believe it's just timing.
[59:16] » When you hit the on 51 at first, when
you hit the crosswalk button, it will
[59:22] not change if there's more than four or
five cars in either direction. You sit
[59:25] there and wait and wait until there's a
sizable gap between cars, then it
[59:29] changes so you can walk. So the sensors
are reading how many vehicles are coming
[59:32] before it'll change to a walk sign.
>> Is that coincidental or is there a
[59:36] sensor?
>> I I pressed that crosswalk a hund times
[59:39] a day.
>> So the way that cross is supposed to
[59:42] work,
>> it's reading the cars
[59:44] » is is it the way it was designed and
this and these are conversations we've
[59:48] had with text on numerous occasions over
the last couple years. The way that
[59:52] intersection was designed
was it was supposed to be a steady flow
[59:56] of green for north and southbound
traffic on 51 until either a pedestrian
[1:00:02] activated the crosswalk or a car going
east or west on first
[1:00:07] » trigger the sensor, right? Or trigger
trigger the
[1:00:10] » cars do trigger it much quicker
>> than the pedestrian.
[1:00:13] » The pedestrian does not.
>> So, but when you hit that pedestrian
[1:00:17] signal,
>> it's supposed to immediately start the
[1:00:19] cycle process. Yeah.
>> So, so
[1:00:23] it was always my understanding that east
and west now first is censored
[1:00:28] north and south 51 is not but these are
conversations.
[1:00:32] » Well, and it could be that there are
sensors there but the signals operated
[1:00:35] on the timer just because the sensor is
there in
[1:00:39] the other is that when that was designed
in the way that David said they
[1:00:46] designed it
at that time did the constant flow of
[1:00:51] east west traffic that we saw after the
project was over and the roadway
[1:00:56] reopened. Now all of a sudden there's
constant cross
[1:01:00] » they destroyed all the other roads. So
every other road got beat to death. So
[1:01:05] all the people who would have went other
routes have to get on 51. That's the
[1:01:08] influx of traffic to 51.
>> So you give me an idea what we're
[1:01:11] dealing with text.
>> A few a few months ago we were walking
[1:01:15] chamber office. We hit the crosswalk and
it said wait before you cross. Fairfield
[1:01:25] I'm not at le
[1:01:32] » it's enough of an issue where I'm
worried about
[1:01:34] » I think I'm going to lose business going
across the street because if you have to
[1:01:37] hit that button and it's raining no
one's going to stand there for
[1:01:39] » well three or four minutes in the rain.
>> We've got a new area engineer. I finally
[1:01:43] had the meeting three weeks ago and we
have council next week but and are
[1:01:49] getting together. He's coming out to
make a site visit with me to Springtown
[1:01:54] in early September and we're going to
talk about the crosswalks. We're going
[1:01:58] to talk about the intersections. We're
going to talk about the timings. We're
[1:02:00] going to talk about 199. We have a whole
whole list of stuff to go over there
[1:02:04] with them.
>> Do our planter barricades come into
[1:02:07] segregate the
>> the sidewalk from we need to have right
[1:02:12] and so it's
>> scares me. I come around the front door.
[1:02:15] » So, but so the new area engineer does
very open, right, to to doing what he
[1:02:22] can to help spring out that honestly
that hasn't always been the case, right?
[1:02:28] But the new guy seems like he seems
pretty solid right now. And at the end
[1:02:32] of the day, we're going to put all this
into a plan so that way when they are
[1:02:37] having discussions, they say, "Look,
this is what our council see presidents,
[1:02:40] these are all issues. It's not just
David coming and saying this, this is
[1:02:44] the entire city. These are issues that
we're experiencing.
[1:02:50] You've taken a lot of notes. What What
in do you have?
[1:03:02] » No matter what they do design, by the
time they get it built, it be obsolete.
[1:03:09] » You know, it's just way because it takes
so long.
[1:03:14] I'll be dead before.
>> It' be nice to have a loop around.
[1:03:20] » That's what I was gonna say. Not very
long ago, the plan was that this loop to
[1:03:25] connect to what is Hutcherson like
routers over here. This was supposed to
[1:03:31] connect here and they decided this was
going to be too expensive.
[1:03:35] » Too expensive. Yeah. They couldn't get
enough right away. They buy a whole lot
[1:03:38] of houses.
>> Well,
[1:03:41] so somebody in a the county level
meeting some people who live in Crescent
[1:03:47] were talking about that to get from
Crescent to was it Winstar Winar Ch
[1:03:52] what's north what's north of Gainesville
Winstar
[1:03:55] » that it was faster to go through
Springtown to Gainesville Springtown
[1:04:01] Gainesville than it was to get on try to
get on 35 go up
[1:04:05] » and the bottleneck
>> from the whole of the whole trip
[1:04:10] this is the bottleneck and there was
discussions We all do a casino
[1:04:18] so far.
[laughter]
[1:04:22] » I know a couple guys.
>> Well, and I said that just go to get
[1:04:27] north
>> to go north to
[1:04:31] and bypass all of challenges from South
Florida. What's that?
[1:04:37] » It is they it's quick most parts of the
day. Google and Apple will both take
[1:04:43] that. But as they widen this this
bottleneck,
[1:04:48] » it's never going to this won't change.
And so the thought has to be, do you go
[1:04:51] around or do you go around?
>> And they and the reality is they could
[1:04:55] actually widen 51, but but not not
significant enough because the bottom if
[1:05:00] they even widen it to the north, they're
not going to be able to do it through
[1:05:02] the square. So the bottleneck's still
going to be there. May be shorter, but
[1:05:06] it's still going to be there.
Seems like all your small cities though
[1:05:10] when you travel and you go through these
small cities and you got downtown areas
[1:05:13] they're the same way as go through the
wrong time of day.
[1:05:18] » Yeah. Down
the difference.
[1:05:22] » Exactly. But the difference is if you go
through our square and you go through
[1:05:27] square. Yeah. Granberry square backs up
too. Right.
[1:05:30] » The difference is look for the 18
traffic in square.
[1:05:33] » It's not there.
>> Doesn't exist. Right.
[1:05:35] » Because they're going around. That's
right.
[1:05:38] » So the only
two goss
[1:05:47] » but that 18-wheeler is not going to take
that turn or that
[1:05:51] » they will
>> these streets unfortunately will not
[1:05:56] handle the traffic.
>> They still come down our street you know
[1:06:00] since the construction on 51 and they
had them routed. Any of them that knows
[1:06:04] that you can turn a tractor supply and
then come down to get it back to 51.
[1:06:08] » Do you see something?
>> Oh, all the time.
[1:06:10] » All the time. [clears throat]
>> So,
[1:06:15] this is this is my personal issue here.
I know, but this is that subject's
[1:06:20] talking about. So, this as a as a
collector doesn't really make sense.
[1:06:25] This is land that's not available for
sale. I know that's been widened. That's
[1:06:30] been widened, but the normal path is for
people to take this job here
[1:06:37] or just go down this way. But as an
alternate path, this is the usual way
[1:06:44] people go down through third street.
Third street could be widened. That's
[1:06:48] that's more of a potential for at least
a jog of a zigzag collector, which
[1:06:56] doesn't really make it a collector, but
it would be a path like this potentially
[1:07:02] like this if you want an alternate more
diagonal path to get from 51.
[1:07:10] » Yeah. And David, I understand your
concerns here, but these people are
[1:07:13] going to have that same concern
>> and they're already getting a lot of
[1:07:16] traffic. You might have the same concern
if you're going to do something like
[1:07:20] that. Just a suggestion is you jog it
and then turn it back up this way and
[1:07:24] finish it out and not send it down
>> or you consider just
[1:07:30] » here.
The other thing to keep in mind too is
[1:07:34] collector the definition of a collector
is getting people from local areas onto
[1:07:40] arterials. So they'll go places and so
really it kind of functions correctly as
[1:07:46] a collector. from those neighborhoods
out to the two arterials. Um whereas you
[1:07:51] know the green the minor arterials those
are designed to carry heavier traffic.
[1:07:55] That's where you get truck traffic
ideally. Um you would not want truck
[1:07:59] traffic coming through or heavy amounts
of traffic other than like school
[1:08:02] traffic maybe on a collector
street.
[1:08:06] » Yeah. I mean I agree with Dton. I think
would be functioning as intended as a
[1:08:11] collector but
>> if we have to look at an alternative
[1:08:16] probably
going to be your best bet. Um the
[1:08:20] difficulty is we really wanted to
identify a collector that went from one
[1:08:26] side of the city to the other side of
the city. And I don't think you're going
[1:08:29] to accomplish that with Sixth Street
because it doesn't get anywhere near 51,
[1:08:33] let alone cross it.
>> Um
[1:08:37] 9th Street
difficult. I mean has historically been
[1:08:43] the midtown east west collector and
because it does eventually feed into
[1:08:50] work which as you see is identified as a
collector even going out into the ETJ
[1:08:54] it's again a natural continuation
of the roadway
[1:09:01] coming through the old one
>> it does
[1:09:04] right through there [clears throat]
built bunch of houses thereatunately
[1:09:09] these are driveways along there. It's
not a reserve reverse backyard.
[1:09:15] » Ideally, in a perfect world, you would
have say people are coming to to the
[1:09:20] schools. They would come if they're
coming from the southside, they'd come
[1:09:22] up and come up.
This would collect people from interior
[1:09:29] onto these collected
>> as opposed to
[1:09:33] like this.
>> Now, whether or not people use it that
[1:09:36] way is one thing or another. There's
things construction
[1:09:40] you know, all kinds of other things that
will deter people from taking tradition.
[1:09:45] » If we're going to do a collector here
and this path makes the most sense, but
[1:09:50] may not be necessarily the best route,
>> right?
[1:09:54] » It might not be the safest route either.
>> Well, I could pedestrian and potential
[1:10:01] auto pedestrian interactions.
[1:10:09] quick question
>> on using I know semis in schools don't
[1:10:14] is there any precedent for time of use
and speed limitations so you can use
[1:10:22] divert any semis down pojo during this
time window at 20 miles an hour is all
[1:10:27] they're allowed to move and just enforce
the heck out of the speed limit thing
[1:10:31] but that way it sends a portion of it
during certain times of the day and
[1:10:35] keeps it off of the other roads or does
that not help?
[1:10:45] » California does it statewide 55 period
if you have more than two axles on the
[1:10:49] ground.
>> There are mechanisms to have truck only
[1:10:53] speed limits on state roadways. So that
that is a possibility.
[1:10:57] » I guess what I was understanding you to
say was reduce them during reduce their
[1:11:01] speed during a certain time of day.
anytime they get on that roadway, unless
[1:11:07] school's out and then out, they're
limited to 25 miles an hour, 20 miles an
[1:11:11] hour, which is so if we do something
like that, first of all, we got to make
[1:11:14] sure it to state traffic law and uniform
traffic
[1:11:21] control.
[1:11:25] However, I would say if we do something
like that, they'll start trying to put
[1:11:30] times on
it's going to be mph
[1:11:34] 24 hours.
>> I agree with that. But the window of
[1:11:37] use, they can use it x time to x time.
They can't use it during school release.
[1:11:41] » I don't think I don't think they'd be
able to legally do that because they
[1:11:44] have the right to move their product.
>> Well, 51's still open during school
[1:11:48] hours. They just couldn't use that cut
across during school or during school.
[1:11:53] » If they were limited, truckers are
always going to take the route of least
[1:11:56] resistance. So if there's limitations on
the road
[1:12:07] » okay so here this is an imaginary
collector
[1:12:09] » section that doesn't exist
>> and that is specifically to avoid these
[1:12:14] driveways here right
[1:12:18] » this is an east west
[1:12:22] » exist before
>> so this does exist right here this road
[1:12:27] But that design existed before those
homes were there.
[1:12:31] » These are not even 5 years old.
>> Okay. So practically people are using
[1:12:35] this.
>> Correct.
[1:12:39] » Just take this around here. Cut through
here. Widen Third Street which has
[1:12:44] » much more rightway.
>> Yeah.
[1:12:45] » And the ability to obtain more rightway
and take it back through here.
[1:12:49] » Yeah.
>> And then you also school which is the
[1:12:54] most important.
[1:12:59] Just take it
[1:13:05] like that to make them go. You know,
they're trying to travel east, but we're
[1:13:10] going to drop them down, make them go,
and then make them come back.
[1:13:15] Is that how we would typically see it?
>> Unless they want to do this.
[1:13:25] We can explore some other options. The
main thing is getting more borders from
[1:13:31] east to west, right? That's that's the
main goal, right?
[1:13:44] » Probably
[1:13:49] are not significantly different.
Do you want traffic through here.
[1:13:58] » But then once you get here, you either
got to go north,
[1:14:03] » right?
>> Yeah.
[1:14:05] » So this is not this is not the word.
It's where do you go from this corner?
[1:14:11] If you bring it here, where do you go
from here? You have people go up or
[1:14:15] down.
[1:14:24] um flood plane.
>> So guys, let's go back and look at that
[1:14:29] again,
>> right? And and see the pros and cons to
[1:14:35] that. We don't mind doing that.
Again, the overall goal is to gain east
[1:14:41] and west access. That's the
>> Yeah,
[1:14:45] » it upross
[1:14:50] these are just
as here's how we think traffic is going
[1:14:53] to roadways. It's not that you're saying
we are definitely putting road.
[1:14:58] » Well, yes and no because it it is that
is what you're saying. But as land
[1:15:02] develops, just like we did here and we
did here, we required the developer to
[1:15:09] build that section of the road.
>> But when there
[1:15:16] is about 11 years old,
And so
[1:15:28] » there was nothing in the subdivision or
that allowed us to
[1:15:33] requ
[1:15:49] But the street itself is the correct
width.
[1:15:54] » The issue that M's bringing up is that
the driveways back into as opposed to
[1:15:58] hammerhead out of that nature. So that's
that's the issue
[1:16:02] » or it could have been the subdivision
[1:16:07] could have been
[1:16:15] » but we can't go back and reverse the So
the question is what do we do here right
[1:16:20] this is how it's currently designed
right so that's something I think we
[1:16:25] need to probably go back and look at
the same issue
[1:16:32] as well this area is the exact same
>> very very similar
[1:16:38] » and then you got that jaw right there
that's going to slow track down at least
[1:16:44] » which
would require
[1:16:48] design
[1:16:52] 45
[1:16:58] based subdivisions either except
[1:17:04] » well
[1:17:12] I don't know what the answer is tonight
I don't find an answer
[1:17:17] Well,
this
[1:17:21] blue
is these are county this is county
[1:17:27] that's county that's counties right
we have to have their they have to fill
[1:17:33] these needs
>> these things happen then this is less
[1:17:37] significant we have we need this to
happen we need some east west in the
[1:17:42] middle of town but when these come to
exist
[1:17:46] There's going to be some relief.
>> That's also the road that has the signal
[1:17:51] access to
>> this one.
[1:17:53] » No.
>> Oh, gotcha.
[1:17:58] Which is important.
>> Y
[1:18:03] I'm sorry. I may say street.
>> This is us.
[1:18:08] » This This is us.
>> This is the green is is minor artery.
[1:18:13] » So what is This is the city limit.
>> Yeah, it might just be
[1:18:18] » No, that's
>> this says spring city limits is this
[1:18:23] color.
>> So I thought maybe this was count
[1:18:27] » that section. I'm sorry.
>> This the county has talked to us about
[1:18:34] taking over this road sometime in the
future.
[1:18:38] » And that's not the only instance of
something like that. If you look here
[1:18:44] took that road
[1:18:47] » to get to this
[1:18:54] Yorkenver.
[1:19:04] » They did. If you drive further up, they
overlaid some of it. So we just
[1:19:18] do
[1:19:31] » rather the county fix it now.
>> Oh certainly. And that that's the
[1:19:35] conversations that we're having here is
that we want them to
[1:19:52] » take over.
[1:19:58] So what's what's the traffic in this
section here?
[1:20:08] Yeah, I would say that's pretty
accurate.
[1:20:23] » I'm sorry.
[1:20:27] » These people here are going to go this
way.
[1:20:30] » So, they're probably
[1:20:34] I would say
[1:20:38] » West.
[1:20:44] » So unless there's a traffic back up
here.
[1:20:52] » I I would think
subdivision builds here. I think it's I
[1:20:57] think it might be a big split. They do
go this way. This is where they need to
[1:21:03] be this way because they want to get
down. It's just hard to say.
[1:21:08] » And then if that develops the way we've
talked about in the past, there's going
[1:21:12] to be very little traffic.
[1:21:20] This is this is not often traveled area.
So neighborhoods like there's not a lot
[1:21:27] of traffic.
[1:21:31] I think if that even if that were to go
through that neighborhood and I'm here,
[1:21:38] I'm probably still going to go that way.
>> Yes.
[1:21:40] » Because of the fear of what bottleneck
is going to be,
[1:21:43] » right?
>> Officially it's 20. What's the speed
[1:21:47] limit for local roads?
>> We've also got 20 miles hour.
[1:21:56] We have 20 miles hour
>> local. Doesn't the state just make it
[1:22:00] easier for us to lower?
>> The state just passed a law this last
[1:22:04] legislative session that allow cities to
lower internal speed limits to a certain
[1:22:09] degree. Otherwise, you had to do this
whole 85th percentile study in order for
[1:22:13] that to happen. We have not lowered any
of our news. We have not yet.
[1:22:21] So in terms of the throw for a plan when
the county is working on the county's
[1:22:26] side, we need this to have been updated,
not necessarily changed.
[1:22:31] » It just needs to have been approved by
this committee
[1:22:36] because they're going to ask for our
thoroughare plan.
[1:22:38] » Ultimately, it'll be approved by the
council.
[1:22:40] » Yeah, sure. But
the Parker County thorough affair
[1:22:45] committee meets midepptember
>> which is before the council
[1:22:50] » but we can take this information
>> yes
[1:22:52] » to them then
>> and they've seen this they they have
[1:22:55] seen the county has seen this
>> right but they haven't seen what we've
[1:22:58] talked about because we're not talking
about it till now. Yeah, that's that was
[1:23:01] we were going to have this meeting and
then I'm [clears throat] gonna provide
[1:23:04] these change or whatever we decide on
and then he's going to take them and he
[1:23:10] told me he would get a draft of the
county's plan to me for review sometime
[1:23:14] early September. He didn't want us to
have it because commissioners had fully
[1:23:18] reviewed it. So, and that's when I can
fill this out a little bit more to
[1:23:23] reflect their plan. We can compare
specifically if there's any arterials
[1:23:28] you look like higher than what they have
maybe like 51 I think they have as a
[1:23:33] minor and then
or if there's just a really certain
[1:23:39] circumstance where you think okay this
alignment does not work or something
[1:23:43] else and that's a conversation with them
to update their plan or they're just
[1:23:48] showing different
So yeah, so on that note, I think it's
[1:23:52] important that we point out
rather than signal propos,
[1:24:02] but the ang that intersection is make it
more
[1:24:09] proper than it would
[1:24:17] intersection. We're going to have to
rebuild some of the road alignments into
[1:24:20] the intersection.
>> It's also a lot more expensive.
[1:24:23] » It is a lot. Yes.
>> Now, we we did a single warrant study
[1:24:27] years ago and it warrants some type of
intersection improvement and you seen
[1:24:32] our current plan. It's roundabout city.
Every intersection is a roundabout.
[1:24:37] We're not suggesting we go back to that.
[1:24:42] » I think that's a roundabout.
>> You think it should be?
[1:24:46] » No, I think it's that's the Parker
County plan.
[1:24:52] » That's their plan.
>> Maybe. I can't I don't recall. I don't
[1:24:56] talk about that intersection when he was
here. I know with certainty that that's
[1:25:00] what they
talked about the last meeting but most
[1:25:05] places are going towards a lot
[1:25:09] » but this is a light
>> you get the traffic going one direction
[1:25:14] though and you're sitting there on the
side and you can't get in
[1:25:18] » it ain't it ain't working I promise you
>> only
[1:25:22] heard that wasn't going to be
>> I said it it's a light intersection
[1:25:26] improvement so It could [clears throat]
be straighten up the straighten up the
[1:25:29] approach of the road
>> because that ramp is gross
[1:25:35] » that incline.
[1:25:39] » So it's not necessarily light. It's just
[1:25:44] » I think they're going to build
[1:25:54] » and
[1:25:58] spills over here.
>> And where was that?
[1:26:00] » J Woody and 51.
>> Talking to the county J Woody and Ocean.
[1:26:06] Is that the other one that goes?
>> Um I think the county's intention is to
[1:26:10] try to get a lot of traffic going east
to west on those. The struggle with that
[1:26:14] is both those dead in on 51 or 199. So
it's just going to dump more traffic
[1:26:18] right into Springtown versus getting
>> the intersection go
[1:26:24] 199. Yeah. Why would you call it an
intersection? It's just a multiple
[1:26:30] » way. So in other areas of the county, if
their intention is to get people off
[1:26:35] onto those roads, then that would
inherently make worse.
[1:26:43] I think the hope is for [clears throat]
people coming from the south that are
[1:26:46] going to head west that they go around
here. But more importantly, the people
[1:26:51] coming from the west to the east instead
of stop to stop sign.
[1:26:58] I think they're going to Are they going
to widen this?
[1:27:01] » That's a million dollar question.
>> It depends on which which day you talk
[1:27:05] to,
>> right?
[1:27:08] » We learned that was the new plan.
proposal
[1:27:11] » rather than this one.
>> Yes, that was our reaction is that if
[1:27:15] they're going to propose dumping that
amount of traffic on that road, they're
[1:27:19] going to have to do something or it's
not going to
[1:27:24] » and so let me give you the freezing
nickels response. We'll check into that.
[1:27:29] Right? So, so the answer is we don't
know. We have told them straight out of
[1:27:35] our mouths that it needs to be wiped,
right? And we advocate for that
[1:27:41] except for this section right here on
our road.
[1:27:49] Honestly, the decision to jump to I I
know it was cost decision but to avoid
[1:27:53] this probably reduces that effectiveness
by at least 50%. Because people would
[1:27:59] have been much more likely to take that
go
[1:28:13] This was very
>> fantast.
[1:28:27] » So, back to this piece. I know I I
completely understand the worry about 18
[1:28:33] wheelers passing at least three schools.
But
[1:28:38] if you drive to any
[1:28:43] a lot of our school, a lot of schools in
our little part of the world are very
[1:28:47] close to a thoroughare because that
makes it easy, pick up, drop off. And
[1:28:52] when this was built, high school was
built, we didn't have the traffic we
[1:28:56] have now. But if this were a 30
all the time. Unless it's a school pick
[1:29:01] up or drop off when it drops to 20,
right?
[1:29:06] Those 18 wheelers going down the road,
other than the fact they can't stop as
[1:29:10] fast, but it's that's not that's not
faster than traffic.
[1:29:14] » So, yeah. So, the only
[1:29:19] different
reason
[1:29:25] that is us
to them that we need to figure out how
[1:29:30] to regulate like
how to regulate that traffic better on
[1:29:37] pojo. It's an absolute alternative and
frankly it's the best alternative we got
[1:29:42] because they come south on 51 they hang
right on pojo come back out to 199 and
[1:29:47] vice versa right it's it's a great
alternative the question textile hasn't
[1:29:51] been able to tell us and we haven't been
able to handle yet exactly how much of
[1:29:56] the 18 number one how much of
We don't have those accounts we can give
[1:30:02] him but we don't have them right now.
Second of all, uh
[1:30:07] what kind of
what kind of
[1:30:12] refuding are we going to get school
district?
[1:30:20] » Well, and I think what makes a small
difference to some of the situations you
[1:30:25] were describing is that you have
pedestrian traffic on the north stadium.
[1:30:33] And I think that is probably a huge
factor.
[1:30:37] Is there a way to eliminate or mitigate
the safety concerns of kids physically
[1:30:43] walking across the road when we're
putting additional traffic
[1:30:48] » flashing signs on both entrance or both
end of the road 3:00 to 5:00 you can't
[1:30:55] » must go 51. I mean, I don't I don't know
if that's legal. You talking about
[1:31:00] prohibit them from being there during
those times? I think that's what you're
[1:31:03] talking.
>> No, that's I wasn't at all suggesting
[1:31:06] that we dictate that they take that.
>> It wasn't I wasn't saying close this to
[1:31:11] 18
[1:31:14] if that's an option to go this way.
Let's just slow it down. Right.
[1:31:19] » So, let's slow it down.
>> The other thing that just transparency
[1:31:26] the text on that thing is if the city
would allow them to make that a truck
[1:31:33] route.
There is a possibility that could
[1:31:36] actually become a spur where textile
becomes the required maintainer of that.
[1:31:43] And the conversation that we've had with
text is they would take this on as a
[1:31:48] spur
and relinquish this spur back to the
[1:31:51] city and the city takes control of all
the first
[1:31:55] question. If you have no through truck
signs all over the place, what would be
[1:32:00] different than doing no truck through
during a time window?
[1:32:04] » So, what's the difference?
>> The difference is the types of streets,
[1:32:07] right? You can do no go through trucks
for reser
[1:32:13] can't travel on resial street unless
it's got point of delivery or point of
[1:32:16] pickup,
>> right? West Air is a good example. They
[1:32:19] come up second street all the time, but
they can legally do that. But
[1:32:25] moving somebody from Nevada out to Texas
can't cut up through our residential
[1:32:30] street unless they have a destination
>> we have
[1:32:38] train
>> right so
[1:32:43] and honestly guys tell you I'd have to
go back I'd have to look at state laws
[1:32:49] changes every two years right at a whim
most of the
[1:32:54] But we don't have to go back to see what
laws are existing right now to regulate
[1:32:58] that type of traffic certain times of
days
[1:33:02] or whatever it may be. It's certainly an
alternative.
[1:33:05] So is the guiding idea
[1:33:14] is to get the heavy truck traffic out of
the center of the square.
[1:33:20] » So the center of the square becomes
becomes more walkable and more more
[1:33:25] » more user friendly.
>> User friendly more tourist attraction
[1:33:28] type
>> I mean that's what Grand took it all
[1:33:33] out. They have a lot more
And I'm working with at least four other
[1:33:38] cities right now that we're dealing with
the exact same issue of trying to get
[1:33:41] truck traffic out of the square onto a
truck. Some of those have truck routes
[1:33:46] that promise years and they're not. But
the challenge is y'all
[1:33:52] don't have a clear route right now. I
would say could be but it's not a clear
[1:33:58] truck in my mind. Williams is a long way
from being wide enough to take The
[1:34:04] bridge along.
>> Yeah. So
[1:34:09] » the bridge is going to have to be
widened
[1:34:12] » at some point anyway even if this is not
right.
[1:34:17] » City about nine years ago. Same thing
with county commissioners at the time
[1:34:22] » and he didn't his way then either. So
when I moved here that was a little
[1:34:27] bridge and now it's just
[1:34:32] now it's just a little bridge. Say rent.
>> But when they did it, why did they go
[1:34:37] ahead and allow for that
>> while you're there?
[1:34:40] » Somebody in this room asked a question.
>> By the time it got built, it was
[1:34:45] obsolete.
>> I don't know. That's like saying
[1:34:49] it was too crowded to begin with.
>> This is extension
[1:34:54] right along the creek.
[1:34:58] » So the county proposed
third or something, but it was
[1:35:03] multiple
[1:35:16] » one
as opposed to three or four
[1:35:25] » it's pretty low
>> a consideration is right now we do have
[1:35:30] limited roads that the creek. And so in
the event of some type of evacuation,
[1:35:36] natural disaster, if those are impacted,
not usable, then that to number is
[1:35:41] reduced. So you're going to see
significantly higher levels of traffic
[1:35:45] and potential emergency. And so you do
want to plan for additional
[1:35:53] evacuation routes, for lack of better
terms, that you're not relying on the
[1:35:57] same
street, 51,
[1:36:05] I mean that's
also crosses
[1:36:13] and so it doesn't take much
[1:36:24] emergency.
[1:36:31] Have we had this without a commission in
the last
[1:36:34] » not in the last 10 years that I've seen
>> which the one
[1:36:44] » did it did it?
>> Yeah. When it flooded
[1:36:47] in 05 and that that bridge was of course
it was a little bridge then
[1:36:54] bridge. Yeah. It was over.
>> Yeah. It has not it that bridge has not
[1:36:59] flooded since I've been here. Street has
[1:37:08] » the improvements to 51. That was one
raising the bridge.
[1:37:24] It's not as
>> this one is not this is this has
[1:37:30] clearance there.
this. So this could be
[1:37:37] » so the reality is
this route
[1:37:44] stream makes sense
down there.
[1:37:50] The true issue is this right.
[1:37:56] You all have to tell us which one.
>> Can we draw something? What were we
[1:38:00] thinking here and widening third and
then back up this way at some point?
[1:38:06] » You said this way that way.
>> So just
[1:38:12] playing devil's advocate here.
If we turn this this way
[1:38:19] and this residential community changes
over the next two to three years. How
[1:38:24] many of these people
this way to go all the way out this way?
[1:38:34] So it goes back it goes back to
what
[1:38:41] what's the most peaceful route to get
people from point A to point B,
[1:38:46] right? And does and of course the cost
involved in that because
[1:38:53] developers build this, we would have to
build this,
[1:38:57] » right? And we would have to build this.
>> You have to acquire that property too.
[1:39:02] Yes. And that property I have been told
pastors have changed.
[1:39:09] » First Baptist,
>> but I've been told by the previous
[1:39:11] pastor that that property they probably
never sell. I don't know why the same
[1:39:18] way or not. But any improvements from
this point here
[1:39:24] this way down here
[1:39:29] will be the city's responsibility.
Whereas this
[1:39:35] I want to keep I have another question.
>> We thought about future commercial
[1:39:41] development affecting traffic patterns.
So where's everybody going at the peak
[1:39:45] times? Everybody's dumping on the 51.
Are they all heading to Brookers? Does
[1:39:50] development of another grocery store on
the other side of town alleviate some of
[1:39:53] that 5:00 traffic because they're not
all trying to get to the same grocery
[1:39:56] store?
>> Fixing our actual roads we have. So
[1:40:00] everyone's taking the same roads to get
on 51. Well, if all the connectors were
[1:40:06] not potholed and things like that, the
traffic I mean it's ones and twos. It's
[1:40:10] small, but they're diverting out.
They're taking their own path instead of
[1:40:13] well, we know this road's nice and we
can go right over to 51. That's what's
[1:40:16] bottlenecking all those areas. So, all
of the internal streets being
[1:40:24] clean, nicer, easier to traverse, more
places to go on the other side of town
[1:40:29] so everyone's not heading the same
direction. Do we really want to? You see
[1:40:32] towns die. Springtown's big enough.
We're a modern era. Probably not going
[1:40:35] to. But do we want to loop around town
where everyone's like, "I was going to
[1:40:39] eat on the square, but it's out of the
way now."
[1:40:42] » Do you want to send people away from all
of our You see towns die like this a
[1:40:46] lot. Take a road trip.
>> Well, and and I don't disagree with you.
[1:40:50] So, what we do to combat that sever
several things, and this is I want to
[1:40:53] give you a real
>> 50sec
[1:40:56] » clip of it. If we move traffic, we
traffic. The only intent of that traffic
[1:41:03] will be truck traffic. So that it will
allow for a more pedestrian friendly
[1:41:08] » area which actually will drive
businesses up in the
[1:41:13] » Yeah. But if you have a loop around
town, if unless it says trucks only, I'm
[1:41:17] hopping on it because I'm tired of
sitting on my truck. I've been
[1:41:21] » Well, yeah. But
>> so
[1:41:23] » I'm not passing by. I'm not
>> I'm just tell you that traditionally if
[1:41:26] if you don't see a problem with people
shopping in Granberry Square, Right. But
[1:41:30] you don't see trucks very
>> right. So as our square develops, right?
[1:41:35] And and one of the tasks the council's
given me in the past is to make the
[1:41:39] square more walkable. That's what we're
working on, right? That's why you see
[1:41:43] food trucks and that's why you see
you're going to see a mural soon. Those
[1:41:47] type of things, things that make it more
people shade out there.
[1:41:52] » But shade would be nice. Yes.
>> But but when
[1:41:58] » our square just like City square is a
point of destination. It is not it's not
[1:42:04] a point of travel. In other words,
people will come to the square just
[1:42:08] because they want to come to the square.
They'll come there because dining,
[1:42:12] entertainment, whatever we've got going
on, Christmas stuff, they're going to
[1:42:16] come to the square because squares and
you chime in here, you've done a lot of
[1:42:20] it. And Jason Clunch, who is probably
the most downtown square planner I know,
[1:42:27] will tell you that your destination
point what you want to try to keep out
[1:42:31] of the square but those who do not have
the desire to to stop that would be your
[1:42:36] 18 you keep your car traffic coming
through there they may come through what
[1:42:41] sent you that sounds good let's stop
there right but if they're stuck behind
[1:42:45] 18 for 20 minutes trying to get through
the square they're going to go no let's
[1:42:48] head on down the road so square town
squares in any city should be
[1:42:53] destination point
I'm not making fun of my neighbors the
[1:42:57] south many Did you see the Weatherford
Square just be
[1:43:01] right. When I first moved to
Weatherford, it was desolate. I remember
[1:43:06] going to the square as a kid watching
Batman movies on movies,
[1:43:10] right? Weatherford finally said, "You
know what? This should be a destination
[1:43:14] point." and what happened from that
point, business improvements,
[1:43:18] activities, things that so
I wouldn't worry about truck traffic
[1:43:23] coming off the square because your
square if done correctly
[1:43:26] correctly is going to be best. The other
thing that we talked about this last
[1:43:29] about 50 seconds is we will at some
point once we figure out how to do it,
[1:43:34] we'll be putting up way finding signs.
So that will direct people into the
[1:43:39] square, right? A restaurant for dining
for things that way finding signs will
[1:43:43] help get them
I'm up to about three times a week. Oh,
[1:43:47] we never we've been out here four or
five years. We didn't know you were over
[1:43:49] here.
>> Four days a week. That happens.
[1:43:52] » Yeah, exactly. And that's all
[1:44:05] I
[1:44:08] kind of pitch on squares is that squares
are destination points.
[1:44:14] tourist points, right? So, you got to
figure out how to pull them
[1:44:20] » and people are going to be more likely
to stop in the square. They're not
[1:44:23] already soggated by the time they get up
there in traffic.
[1:44:30] » Yeah, I think for for the neighborhood
you can get to
[1:44:36] that stupid crosswalk.
Yeah. And
[1:44:40] » I'm telling you,
>> I'll add that text on this.
[1:44:42] » You come out there with me. I'll take
you across. You hit that button and just
[1:44:45] » That's funny because I went to the gun
store today,
[1:44:48] » right?
>> Yeah.
[1:44:49] » And I went I walked because I needed to
see if I could climb Paul Gregory and I
[1:44:52] went to the gun store today.
>> Push the button. Wait 15 seconds.
[1:44:58] » And was able to get across.
>> Look each direction when you do it. If
[1:45:01] there's more than two to four cars,
>> it takes a lot longer. If it's one or
[1:45:06] two,
>> I'm just pleased it said wait to cross
[1:45:08] first at 90, not wait to cross living at
Oak, right?
[1:45:11] » It's only Tuesday,
it messes up once a week.
[1:45:15] » Okay, Don, where do we need to go from
here? What do we need? What do you need
[1:45:17] from us? What do you need from this
group?
[1:45:20] » Uh, so I think from here, I'm going to
go back and make edits to the land map.
[1:45:23] I can put some variations of thares on
here and probably bring it back to you.
[1:45:29] We have a better idea of the county's
plan. Um, if the county plan doesn't
[1:45:33] come out until the hall then we'll have
this as an option and then you know
[1:45:38] leave it open to discussion for the
public. Um I think the next item on the
[1:45:42] agenda is just a town hall. So we're
planning to run that with a presentation
[1:45:46] of the draft plans like 75% draft plan
and then again stations. We'll have some
[1:45:52] more downtown and park specific stations
and of course we'll have the land use
[1:45:56] map and the map. Um, and that's tally
scheduled for the 15th unless anyone in
[1:46:02] this group.
>> Yes.
[1:46:06] » Yeah. I mean, if everybody in this room
is good, we'll start
[1:46:17] with 15. Anybody
[1:46:25] » call
[1:46:29] I'll just go eat.
>> Yeah.
[1:46:30] » So, we might be going to Colorado.
>> The definition of these streets is
[1:46:36] » local collector does have influence in
in our ordinances,
[1:46:40] » you know. So, how are you categorizing
these width, by
[1:46:47] » Yeah, we can pull whatever's in the
ordinance specifically. That was just
[1:46:50] generalized based on what I
[1:46:56] ultimately do with the county.
[1:47:02] » Yeah. Because I think in some areas
there will be some that are specific to
[1:47:06] collectors.
[1:47:12] » So before we leave, what what are we
going to explore here?
[1:47:17] » I was a dotted line or something.
>> Yeah. I was going to say we can put a an
[1:47:21] alternate uh route on there and have it
as a discussion town hall if you want.
[1:47:30] Usually people are going to take this
street by experience
[1:47:36] taking kids to school. So you're already
going
[1:47:44] to be flying through their neighborhood.
[1:47:52] But that's that's to avoid 51. So the
school traffic's not adding 51. They're
[1:47:58] trying to to get out of
work.
[1:48:03] That's just from experience.
I mean, I live on a dead end street and
[1:48:09] there's cars that I know that aren't our
neighborhood.
[1:48:12] » We're the busiest dead street.
>> We are so busy.
[1:48:18] » They fly like 45 miles down that street
for practice.
[1:48:22] » For practice.
They parked in the old Yale parking lot
[1:48:28] » where Yale used to be
>> I'm not kidding 50 miles and so it's a
[1:48:33] straight shot and you can't see
>> because it's a hill. So I mean
[1:48:38] » we don't we don't have that luxury
either. People are going to drive
[1:48:41] because they're going to point and
honestly mom and dad don't want to go
[1:48:46] down.
I would take this street. I always take
[1:48:50] this to get to middle school.
high school
[1:48:56] people are trying to go from across the
city and not just
[1:49:02] they're going to find
[1:49:06] » and they're probably
[1:49:18] not
[1:49:22] routine of the kids crossing the streets
in the morning off of Pojo at 6:50 6:45
[1:49:27] in the morning when it's time you can't
see them so extra flashlight making sure
[1:49:34] those kids cross
[1:49:38] » I think you were mentioning that early
morning
[1:49:50] » let us get our heads together with
something else here. But again, we can
[1:49:57] » I don't know that this is a better route
either.
[1:49:59] » Well, because of all the traffic, I
mean, this is two times a day. This is
[1:50:04] not draw.
>> Yeah. And all you're going to do is, you
[1:50:09] know, exacerbate the problem more
traffic down to it. Right. And so, I
[1:50:15] understand what your neighbor's concerns
are, right? I do. I just don't know.
[1:50:20] » Right. So the other that is the other
option is
[1:50:24] » six, right?
>> It's an option.
[1:50:33] » I don't know how many of you ever driven
an 18wheeler, but I have. And I would
[1:50:38] not want to drive through a residential
neighborhood unless I absolutely had to.
[1:50:44] » I would take Pojo
>> unless they built it
[1:50:47] » because it's built wide enough.
good solid road. And that's to me that's
[1:50:54] the only
the only one that we we have presently
[1:51:00] that could handle trucks if we wanted to
get them off the square. So there's
[1:51:04] nothing further south than a truck used
to go up there.
[1:51:10] » And it goes back to what I said earlier.
No matter what you do with the third
[1:51:16] plan, you're not going to make everybody
because if we move it up here, all these
[1:51:23] people move it down here, all these
people. So, I don't know what the
[1:51:29] answers do and Christina and I, we'll
put our heads together and see what what
[1:51:34] it may be. Just keep in mind when you're
working on masterfair plans, if it's a
[1:51:39] new section of road that's going through
a development, that'll be the
[1:51:41] developer's responsibility to build that
comes out of that development, it
[1:51:45] becomes the city's responsibility,
right? So, we would be the ones having
[1:51:50] duty to improve Third Street, which I
would
[1:51:52] » I would not want to dump any more
traffic on Third Street as long as SCES
[1:51:57] exits there, right?
>> And how many how many hours have we
[1:52:00] spent school district trying to find a
way to expand that roadway to handle
[1:52:04] more traffic?
>> So, it's But I don't The answer is,
[1:52:08] David, I don't know the answer. That's
the answer. I don't know. I don't know
[1:52:12] the answer.
Whereas
[1:52:15] thoroughare
>> there's always
[1:52:18] the last thoroughare plan that was done
prior what I commonly refer to as media
[1:52:23] which is before David 2012
>> 2011 I think it was
[1:52:29] » 2016
>> so making people upset this was a
[1:52:34] planned route
>> it has been a plan the only new portion
[1:52:38] of this route develop correct me if I'm
wrong is this section here
[1:52:42] » that's
in this.
[1:52:44] » No, that's actually in the current.
>> Oh, it's in the plan, but it's not a
[1:52:48] road.
>> It would be new construction, but it's
[1:52:50] been planned for
>> and this this is this is the part of the
[1:52:55] new plan.
>> Yes.
[1:52:56] » Right. So, take it all the way through
the project.
[1:52:59] » Everything else exists.
>> So,
[1:53:02] this is not going to be done unless a
developer does it.
[1:53:05] » That's correct. Is that what I'm
hearing?
[1:53:07] Unless unless it gets to the point that
the city has to relieve traffic
[1:53:11] someplace, then we have to go in and and
build the road.
[1:53:15] » Okay.
>> What would I can't think of anything
[1:53:17] that would cause traffic to become so
much greater in town that we would have
[1:53:22] to do this because
>> the only places the town's going to this
[1:53:25] could grow in which case they'll be on
that road. This could grow. They'll be
[1:53:29] over here.
>> This is not going to grow. This is
[1:53:32] already built out
>> to go to schools. So what happens here
[1:53:36] is is there's 32 acres sitting there
>> if it becomes a subdivision
[1:53:40] » then the sub then that person's
responsible
[1:53:42] » is responsible for completing or if it
becomes some other use that requires
[1:53:46] that roadway to be completed then it
would be that developers responsible
[1:53:51] » but in which if that doesn't if that's
not developed the city's not going to do
[1:53:55] it
>> and nothing would force us to you said
[1:53:58] if it if traffic came so bad that we had
to build it but what could possibly
[1:54:02] happen would make The likelihood is I
always preface with you know anything
[1:54:07] could happen. The likelihood of the city
having to complete that section of
[1:54:12] roadway given our current growth
patterns is highly unlikely.
[1:54:19] » I just can't see where where there would
be enough
[1:54:23] growth that would force that to [snorts]
>> if it continues on the current plan
[1:54:29] then
[1:54:32] is this actually in the city
[1:54:38] » to the east. So this should not be
>> we have spring but we don't have we're
[1:54:44] not yeah this is not even
>> yeah none of that east
[1:54:48] » so there's slight slivers of those and I
think I think he probably se
[1:55:01] » if this were realized there are multiple
parcels here that would have to be
[1:55:04] acquired by the city
>> for that
[1:55:08] » required by developer
[1:55:11] So, we wouldn't build that either. It
would be a developer.
[1:55:15] » This section's built.
>> This section's built.
[1:55:22] » We didn't build either one of those
sections.
[1:55:25] » That's kind of marshy right there.
>> But getting it there, getting it from
[1:55:32] from here to there or to there will not
be our responsibility. will be the
[1:55:37] developer responsibility,
right?
[1:55:45] » So this is
[1:55:53] » this is this right here.
[1:55:59] » So if this say a developer did build
here
[1:56:02] » and put in that road and this doesn't
this
[1:56:07] because of the challenges. Who's going
to cut through to get to this street?
[1:56:12] » Very few people.
[1:56:17] » Those people.
>> The flip side is if you don't have it on
[1:56:20] the map, the developer came through,
>> right?
[1:56:26] » So leaving it there is advantageous
really.
[1:56:32] But this eventuality is not like
>> and also We go through the process of
[1:56:38] the plan in its entirety. One of the
things that we're looking at our impact
[1:56:42] we assess water impact do not currently
assess street impact something we've
[1:56:48] discussed for a long time just as with
the water wastewater impact. We have
[1:56:55] water and wastewater is not on that
plan. You cannot use impact fees to fund
[1:57:01] any improvements to it or to make up
between what a developer might
[1:57:07] contribute and what the city might
participate in. There's a there's a lot
[1:57:10] of benefits to having it on the plan
versus not things that can be done by
[1:57:16] having it on the plan versus the harm of
not having it on of having it on the
[1:57:22] plan.
If you get the street impact fees, it
[1:57:25] even narrows down a little bit capacity
building projects. And so some of these
[1:57:30] we're talking about
there's a lot of that engineers have to
[1:57:35] do that. I'm not engineer, but comparing
like how what that traffic does if for
[1:57:40] proposed development and if it's going
to be a capacity building project.
[1:57:44] having more options.
[1:57:49] Okay.
[1:57:52] So, anybody interested in moving to item
number three, discussion related to
[1:57:56] proposed town hall number two that
>> we kind
[1:58:05] further business to discuss?
[1:58:09] » Okay. We will do we need to formally we
don't need to formally do this
[1:58:17] out.
[1:58:21] » Okay.
>> 8:27 p.m. Thank you for your
[1:58:24] participation.
>> I appreciate y'all. That was a really
[1:58:26] good discussion.